# Lifestyles & Discussion > Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies >  The Bitcoin Run Has Started

## presence

*

Bitcoin apps soar in Spain – will the Cyprus shocker boost virtual currencies?*




> Interestingly enough, several  Bitcoin-related apps started spiking on the Spanish iPhone market over  the weekend. Bitcoin Gold shot up in the Spanish iPhone Finance category  from 498 to 72, and another app called Bitcoin Ticker zoomed from 526 to 52 
> 
> *in just one day.* 
> 
> A leading service called Bitcoin App jumped from 194 to 151 between Friday and Sunday as Spaniards brooded over the Cyprus crisis.
> 
>  Some vague rumors about possible savings account confiscations have  been swirling around Europe over the past couple of months, but they had  been shrugged off as American-style crazy conspiracy theories. Now,  Europe is facing the reality of governments suddenly swooping in to take  a bite out of even small savings accounts. Oddly enough, an EU official  named Dijsselbloem rushed to point out on Saturday evening that
> 
> further savings account levies cannot be ruled out.
> ...


*



Why did bitcoin soar recently from $30/bitcoin to $75/bitcoin?*


 *The Spaniards are hedging.*


 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...un-has-started




> *Something extreme is happening in Europe.* 
> 
> 
> Since Sunday, Bloomberg Businessweek reports
> 
> *Jittery Spaniards Seek Safety in Bitcoins*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_Bitcoin_ iPhone App _Downloads Soar_ in Spain as Price Hits New_
Bitcoin_ prices spike on Euro woes • The Register
Spaniards spooked by Cypriot savings grab  turn to virtual currency
Bitcoin soars in Spain with Cyprus Shock boost virtual currency_Bitcoin Apps Soar_ in Spain – Will the Cyprus Shocker *...* - Max Keiser






Also:

Thread: Check out Drudge Report 




> www.drudgereport.com
> 
> with all the stories on *Cyprus, and Spain and UK banks...
> *
> we live in interesting times...





Cyprus Crisis Boosting Unique Currency, the _Bitcoin_

ABC News‎ - 1 day ago

 

_Bitcoin_: the fastest growing currency in the world - video

The Guardian‎ - 3 days ago

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## muh_roads

Almost hit $80 this morning.

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## Romulus

It was down to $60 this weekend... it will keep going up as people find out more about it... its still under the radar IMO.

When it hits the Glen Beck show, look for it to inflate, then drop again.

There's still time... and I'm still wondering on how much to dive in with.

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## presence

> There's still time... and I'm still wondering on how much to dive in with.



The more I learn... the more I can see where this is going.  I'm jumping in.  


$500/Bitcoin or bust.   $1150 plateau in two years; the politics will then go nuclear.  Then who knows?

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## jmdrake

Crap!  People stop buying bitcoins until I get some spare fed notes!

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## S.Shorland

Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!...or anything,because it doesn't exist.

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## Romulus

> Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!...or anything,because it doesn't exist.


I'll send you some plastic tokens with your order if that makes you feel better?

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## kcchiefs6465

> I'll send you some plastic tokens with your order if that makes you feel better?


Send me some gold with my order and I'll jump in.

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## ninepointfive

> Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!...or anything,because it doesn't exist.


people trade bitcoins for real goods.

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## CaseyJones

World's First Bitcoin ATM Is Announced - First Location: Cyprus 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ocation-Cyprus

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## presence

> Send me some gold with my order and I'll jump in.


Send me 25 bitcoins, I'll give you an ounce of gold.

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## hazek

Oh man I enjoy these types of threads. I was met with so much hostility way back in March 2011 when I first posted about Bitcoin (price around $1 I think) around here and now as soon as it clicked for people because they finally decided to actually do their own research I don't have to say a thing anymore. The silly objections get dispelled by others! 

My work here is done.

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## presence

My ticker shows $86.95 this morning.

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## DonovanJames

Viva la Econolution!

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## jclay2

Looks like everyone has just turned to price cheering at this point.

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## The Goat

Bitcoins next hurdle...central bank manipulation.

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## presence

> Bitcoins next hurdle...central bank manipulation.



I was thinking quantitative easing from Utah Data Center; Fed Buy In.

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## muh_roads

Almost $90.  It tripled silver in 3 months.  Next stop...gold...lol

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## hazek

Actually this mania is getting a bit out of hand and I wouldn't mind at all for at least a couple of months of stability.

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## keh10

> Actually this mania is getting a bit out of hand and I wouldn't mind at all for at least a couple of months of stability.


I hear ya. I hope it's not a repeat of Silver April '11

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## Michigan11

You know I've been trying to wrap my mind around this bitcoin concept, and I wonder if it's similar to what silver was in 05' say. Where it was coming up from the hithers, say $9/10 an ounce, today its around 3 times to 4 times that figure. Today $75 for bitcoin, tomorrow, in a couple years, its at $225? Going to look further into this for sure like others here.

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## muh_roads

> You know I've been trying to wrap my mind around this bitcoin concept, and I wonder if it's similar to what silver was in 05' say. Where it was coming up from the hithers, say $9/10 an ounce, today its around 3 times to 4 times that figure. Today $75 for bitcoin, tomorrow, in a couple years, its at $225? Going to look further into this for sure like others here.


The thing that gives BTC the most value right now is something that is more highly regarded to foreigners than us.  And that is to easily and quickly transfer money anonymously.  The west generally doesn't have this problem.  So you will see a lot of people making fun of BTC here that think they understand what gives something value when they really don't.

If you live in China and want to pay vendors outside of Chinese borders it has an immense benefit.  The Chinese, for example, only want their people to work with other Chinese people and they are very authoritarian when it comes to wire transfers.  Bitcoin solves this problem for them and many others around the world by instantly making their vendors happy.

Right now it is great for people in countries like Cyprus trying to empty their accounts and hide their wealth.  It is their wealth and they should have the right to keep it secret and place it wherever they wish.  Bitcoin will have a lot of legs going forward IMO.  There is so much that can be done with it.

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## FSP-Rebel

Glad I got my first 4 recently, I might start buying them everyday cause this Euro situation is just getting started and god knows how America's debt will affect this.

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## DGambler

if it makes it onto Forex, then what is the value?

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## muh_roads

> if it makes it onto Forex, then what is the value?


Max Keiser seems to think if BTC can penetrate just 1% of Forex then the valuation would be at $100K for each coin.

Mind-boggling.

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## Petar

Forex has around $4 trillion/day "turnover".

1% of that action would be $40 billion daily. 

I think that BTC is going to go to the moon.

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## Peace&Freedom

> Max Keiser seems to think if BTC can penetrate just 1% of Forex then the valuation would be at $100K for each coin.
> 
> Mind-boggling.


The 21 million BTCs total that will ever be created by the Bitcoin system creates an anti-inflation 'wall' ensuring its value will grow compared to the other inflated currencies. It's like found (future big) money on the street, for those with the foresight to pick it up while they can. This and other benefits are making it a defacto 'virtual bank run' target of choice, while other banks and government s stay on hioliday or steal depositor funds. 

When I've been mentioning that analysts like Keiser think BTC is poised to explode in value, I've just said "$10,000 or more" and left out the $100,000 part. Even at a future $10,000 valuation per BTC, that means just 3 Bitcoins bought at $100 each today, will top out at $3 MILLION in just a few years.

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## smokemonsc

> The 21 million BTCs total that will ever be created by the Bitcoin system creates an anti-inflation 'wall' ensuring its value will grow compared to the other inflated currencies. It's like found (future big) money on the street, for those with the foresight to pick it up while they can. This and other benefits are making it a defacto 'virtual bank run' target of choice, while other banks and government s stay on hioliday or steal depositor funds. 
> 
> When I've been mentioning that analysts like Keiser think BTC is poised to explode in value, I've just said "$10,000 or more" and left out the $100,000 part. Even at a future $10,000 valuation per BTC, that means just 3 Bitcoins bought at $100 each today, will top out at $3 MILLION in just a few years.


I like bitcoin but I did want to point out I think your math was wrong at the end.  If you are saying $10k valuation the correct number would be 3 x 10,000 = 30,000.  You seem to be doing 3 x 100 x 10000 which would not be right.  At 100k it would be 3 x 100k = 300k.

One thing that worries me about the current bitcoin market is it's low volume, thus the high volatility.  It can just as easily go from 70 back to 30 in a matter of days.  As with any speculative purchase don't bet what you can't afford to lose.

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## Athan

> Viva la Econolution!


That there is a meme waiting to be exploited there son!

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## Athan

> Actually this mania is getting a bit out of hand and I wouldn't mind at all for at least a couple of months of stability.


It isn't that this mania is out of hand, what is happening is the political and economic situation is getting out of hand and this is seen as an electronic escape. I do agree that it is difficult to see how this will play out with the Bitcoin end, but it is STILL a good thing since people need to get the **** off the banker dependency they have created.

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## Cowlesy

Seriously, for you guys who bought these for $3 a BTC and now it's practically at $100 a BTC, consider cashing them out.  Making 33x your money on a trade is out-of-this-world great.   Maybe they go to a $1000 a BTC, but then maybe they go back to $3, or FedGov makes terrifying penalties for using them.

I am psyched when I make 1.5x my money over 2-3 years.  33x over the course of the same time period????  Cash (at least some of them) out.

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## Indy Vidual

> The more I learn... the more I can see where this is going.  I'm jumping in.  
> 
> 
> $500/Bitcoin or bust.   $1150 plateau in two years; the politics will then go nuclear.  Then who knows?





> Crap!  People stop buying bitcoins until I get some spare fed notes!


All the charts indicate $200 to $450 soon!
and that is a big problem. This is clearly a speculative bubble, where you can lose over 50% to even 90% quickly.

Last weekend the low was $52.30 and now people are rushing to buy at $95. 
What if it does go to $400? Is a 400% gain really worth almost insane amounts of risk, when people are clearly panic buying?
Also what makes you think you would be selling at $400 and keeping the profit when they are "obviously" going to $80,000?

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## Working Poor

I wish I had bought some when they cost five cents apiece. I wish I could afford to buy some now. I will watch them and see...

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## presence

> All the charts indicate $200 to $450 soon!
> and that is a big problem. This is clearly a speculative bubble, where you can lose over 50% to even 90% quickly.
> 
> Last weekend the low was $52.30 and now people are rushing to buy at $95. 
> What if it does go to $400? Is a 400% gain really worth almost insane amounts of risk, when people are clearly panic buying?
> Also what makes you think you would be selling at $400 and keeping the profit when they are "obviously" going to $80,000?


Truly and for real... Any coin I buy I will NOT sell.  I'm taking a long position... I don't rule out BC$10,000.  Mathematically its just there and NOBODY in the "real world" knows about it yet.  I'm not very wealthy; relatively poor... but I'm getting $900 this weekend... working my butt off to get it and its all going to coins; if I can get ten I'm stoked.  I just opened my first wallet a few days ago.

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## Original_Intent

I could see bitcoins being the tulip bulbs of this millennium...

"Yeah, a bunch of people invested in imaginary money that was created out of thin air....and also bitcoins!"

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## presence

> I could see bitcoins being the tulip bulbs of this millennium...


Just wait until the big guns buy in.... then its all over.   We're still well within the realm of child's play.

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## jclay2

> All the charts indicate $200 to $450 soon!
> and that is a big problem. This is clearly a speculative bubble, where you can lose over 50% to even 90% quickly.
> 
> Last weekend the low was $52.30 and now people are rushing to buy at $95. 
> What if it does go to $400? Is a 400% gain really worth almost insane amounts of risk, when people are clearly panic buying?
> Also what makes you think you would be selling at *$400 and keeping the profit when they are "obviously" going to $80,000?*


Great post. + rep. You have hit the psyche of the speculative buyers perfectly. And when bitcoin crashes 70% or more, they will probably be buying all the way down averaging in their losers.

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## muh_roads

> Just wait until the big guns buy in.... then its all over.   We're still well within the realm of child's play.


Personally I think that is why we should have moneybomb days where everyone buys themselves some BTC.  Get in before the elite do and own the majority of the wealth.  Then we become the next Rothschilds.  

The emperor is still asleep at the wheel for the most part.

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## muh_roads

> Just wait until the big guns buy in.... then its all over.   We're still well within the realm of child's play.


Personally I think that is why we should have moneybomb days where everyone buys themselves some BTC.  Get in before the elite do and own the majority of the wealth.  Then we become the next Rothschilds.  

The emperor is still asleep at the wheel for the most part.

It'll cause bubbles, but bubbles are natural.  Shake out the Keynesians and hold steady.  I would love nothing more than the Ron Paul contingency owning a large %.  Who has the lobbying power now?  Lobby to just be left alone, damnit.

I think we have a real opportunity to destroy the fiat lords.  I wish more people could see that.

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## jclay2

> Personally I think that is why we should have moneybomb days where everyone buys themselves some BTC.  Get in before the elite do and own the majority of the wealth.  Then we become the next Rothschilds.  
> 
> The emperor is still asleep at the wheel for the most part.


And here is the problem with your bitcoin. You think that owning some fictitious made up scheme of 1's and 0's and getting in early will make you immensly wealthy in the future. Basically transferring the wealth of other individuals in the world to yourselves for nothing. Whatever happened to hardwork? Seems as if everyone in bitcoins is looking for price appreciation and not a stable store of wealth for their hard work.

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## muh_roads

> And here is the problem with your bitcoin. You think that owning some fictitious made up scheme of 1's and 0's and getting in early will make you immensly wealthy in the future. Basically transferring the wealth of other individuals in the world to yourselves for nothing. Whatever happened to hardwork? Seems as if everyone in bitcoins is looking for price appreciation and not a stable store of wealth for their hard work.


$#@! the elite.  They stole our wealth.  I want to steal it back.

And the fact that you call it mere 1's & 0's without seeing BTC's utility value still proves you don't understand why it has value to begin with.

PEOPLE CAN'T SEND MONEY WITHOUT GOVERNMENT PERMISSION.  When will you see this as a huge potential?  Has Cyprus taught you nothing?

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## Peace&Freedom

> $#@! the elite.  They stole our wealth.  I want to steal it back.
> 
> And the fact that you call it mere 1's & 0's without seeing BTC's utility value still proves you don't understand why it has value to begin with.
> 
> PEOPLE CAN'T SEND MONEY WITHOUT GOVERNMENT PERMISSION.  When will you see this as a huge potential?  Has Cyprus taught you nothing?


Bingo, someone gets it! In the modern banking era, everybody's deposits amount to 1s and 0s on somebody's server. It's ALL ethereal, unless backed by real value, the question is freeing it from gov/bank control. And the value of BTC is precisely derived from it being disconnected from the bankers and the bureaucrats, and their monitoring and seizure systems. Financial privacy and independence has an intangible value in the market, and a decentralized currency based on meeting the demand for it should be performing exactly the way Bitcoin is performing.

Money has been freed from the controllers. BTC will explode if/when it climbs to $1000/BTC, as the mass public will then get onboard. In an earlier post, somebody suggested I overshot the math talking about BTC growing to $10,000. Actually, I lowballed things---the actual projection (from Max Keiser) is for Bitcoin to go to $100,000 per coin in a few years. It will be a volatile climb, but overall the curve is going up, up, up!  Get yours while you can, and hold.

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## Indy Vidual

> Great post. + rep. You have hit the psyche of the speculative buyers perfectly. And when bitcoin crashes 70% or more, they will probably be buying all the way down averaging in their losers.


The lucky ones with deep pockets yes, but some will be much worse, panic selling for a huge loss only to (later) miss the start of the next rally.




> And here is the problem with your bitcoin. You think that owning some fictitious made up scheme of 1's and 0's and getting in early will make you immensly wealthy in the future. Basically transferring the wealth of other individuals in the world to yourselves for nothing. Whatever happened to hardwork? Seems as if everyone in bitcoins is looking for price appreciation and not a stable store of wealth for their hard work.


+rep for asking _Whatever happened to hard work?_
People can also spend long hours at something they love to do, so they are productive without the drudgery of "work".

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## Indy Vidual

> if it makes it onto Forex, then what is the value?





> Max Keiser seems to think if BTC can penetrate just 1% of Forex then the valuation would be at $100K for each coin.
> 
> Mind-boggling.





> Forex has around $4 trillion/day "turnover".
> 
> 1% of that action would be $40 billion daily. 
> 
> I think that BTC is going to go to the moon.


What if _all that profit_ conflicts with your principles (see below), then what will you want to do?

Unlike a stock market, the foreign exchange market is divided into levels of access. At the top is the interbank market, which is made up of the largest commercial banks and securities dealers. Within the interbank market, spreads, which are the difference between the bid and ask prices, are razor sharp and *not known to players outside the inner circle.* ~Wikipedia

The core of Forex has an exclusive inner circle, not selected by the free market.
Isn't that the type of thing our movement is fighting against.

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## NoOneButPaul

People going into bitcoin will be burned horribly. 

Not only will competition arise against it (amazon already heading there) but governments of the world will shut this down at once once it takes from their platter. 

Bitcoin will not skyrocket because something will come up against it, whether it's competition or the FED it's not going to make you a millionaire. 

People should still be trying to turn these into something of substance instead of waiting around for higher prices. Gold and Silver will still win out in the end because bitcoin is not proven as a long term store of value and ultimately the FEDs can shut down bitcoin whenever they want. My precious metals stay with me always... internet shutdown, FED shutdown, competition that drives bits to 0, none of it will effect the physical metal I have in my possession.

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## Petar

> People going into bitcoin will be burned horribly. 
> 
> Not only will competition arise against it (amazon already heading there) but governments of the world will shut this down at once once it takes from their platter. 
> 
> Bitcoin will not skyrocket because something will come up against it, whether it's competition or the FED it's not going to make you a millionaire. 
> 
> People should still be trying to turn these into something of substance instead of waiting around for higher prices. Gold and Silver will still win out in the end because bitcoin is not proven as a long term store of value and ultimately the FEDs can shut down bitcoin whenever they want. My precious metals stay with me always...


TPTB are not all-powerful. 

Situations sometimes arise that are beyond their control, and the fact that the internet exists at all is proof of that. 

If the world was already run like China then I would say that you are correct, but the fight for freedom still exists in the West, so we will see who come out on top in the years to come.

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## cheapseats

What produced the very first bitcoin(s)?  I mean, were they not "mined" out of internet ether as surely as Bernanke's funny-money is printed out of thin air?

What infused value early-on, before they could be used to buy/transact where "regular" dollars are used?

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## Indy Vidual

> What produced the first bitcoin...


Brilliant ideas combined with cryptography and P2P software.




> ...and what infused value?


Scarcity and people accepting it.





> ...
> What infused value early-on, before they could be used to buy/transact where "regular" dollars are used?




This Pizza Cost $750,000
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/thi...s-worth-750000

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## Peace&Freedom

> People going into bitcoin will be burned horribly. 
> 
> Not only will competition arise against it (amazon already heading there) but governments of the world will shut this down at once once it takes from their platter. 
> 
> Bitcoin will not skyrocket because something will come up against it, whether it's competition or the FED it's not going to make you a millionaire. 
> 
> People should still be trying to turn these into something of substance instead of waiting around for higher prices. Gold and Silver will still win out in the end because bitcoin is not proven as a long term store of value and ultimately the FEDs can shut down bitcoin whenever they want. My precious metals stay with me always... internet shutdown, FED shutdown, competition that drives bits to 0, none of it will effect the physical metal I have in my possession.


There's no quarrel here about gold and silver being the best, but they do have a problem: the FEDS can seize people's precious metals A LOT faster than they can shut down a peer to peer network. In fact, there is no track record proving they can shut down such a network at all, whereas there IS proof it can seize and freeze assets held in banks or other centralized locations. 

Bitcoin's value will grow because it uses government's momentum against it---the more it tries to crack down on financial privacy, the more that increases the value of the e-currency. That value IS the substance. The demand is already out there for a non-bank, non-state e-currency, and an intangible value is unraidable.

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## hazek

> What produced the very first bitcoin(s)?  I mean, were they not "mined" out of internet ether as surely as Bernanke's funny-money is printed out of thin air?


Sure.. hence why they were practically worthless in the beginning.




> What infused value early-on, before they could be used to buy/transact where "regular" dollars are used?


Their usefulness and integrity.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> People going into bitcoin will be burned horribly. 
> 
> Not only will competition arise against it (*amazon already heading there*) but governments of the world will shut this down at once once it takes from their platter. 
> 
> Bitcoin will not skyrocket because something will come up against it, whether it's competition or the FED it's not going to make you a millionaire. 
> 
> People should still be trying to turn these into something of substance instead of waiting around for higher prices. Gold and Silver will still win out in the end because bitcoin is not proven as a long term store of value and ultimately the FEDs can shut down bitcoin whenever they want. My precious metals stay with me always... internet shutdown, FED shutdown, competition that drives bits to 0, none of it will effect the physical metal I have in my possession.


Amazon coins are actually what the people who don't understand Bitcoin, accuse Bitcoin of being. They are controlled by a central authority (Amazon) and there is no limit to the amount that Amazon can produce. And outside of Amazon, where else can I use those coins? 

Gold and silver has its place, and valued in USD, I actually own more PMs than I do Bitcoins. But it is significantly easier to use Bitcoins online, than it is to use gold and silver. And what happens when the US turns into Cyprus and I want to take my money out of the country? Bitcoins are significantly easier to hide than gold, silver, or cash.

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## Czolgosz

I was shocked to see Bitcoin on my Yahoo page.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoi...164900785.html

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## stuntman stoll

You are wrong in so many ways.  let's see...



> Not only will competition arise against it (amazon already heading there)


That's like saying that you shouldn't put stock in the internet because it's just 1's and 0's and someone will make a different/competing internet protocol.  Bitcoin already has the corner on the digital currency.  The other attempts will fall flat because they will not have been first and they won't be a major advancement.  What amazon has is not a currency.  It is just a placeholder for US dollars.  It's exactly the same as holding a check that can be converted into US dollars.




> but governments of the world will shut this down at once once it takes from their platter.


Government's like to control everything but some things they just can't. From what I understand the internet would have to be shut down to shut down bitcoin.





> Gold and Silver will still win out in the end because bitcoin is not proven as a long term store of value


Gold and silver are not perfect money.  Gold is easily counterfeited (drilling and filling with tungsten) and there are about 20 metals that look like silver.  And I really doubt that you actually think commerce could happen on a large scale with physical gold and silver.  It was a big enough pain in the ass just to cash out some silver when starting a business.  Every coin brand had a different price, had to drive it across town, etc.  People are even doing away with cash because it's a pain in the ass to use, even though it's accepted by everyone in exchange for everything.

Gold is a perfect store of wealth.  However it is not an investment (if you think the value will go up, then it is a speculation not an investment).  It is also a very poor medium of exchange ie currency.
Bitcoin is Not a store of wealth (there is no intrinsic value).  It also is not an investment (speculation - yes).  It, however, is the perfect medium of exchange.  Infinitely divisible, instantly transferable to anyone, anywhere, anytime, anonymously.  With smart phones, it is even easier and faster to use than a credit card.
This from someone who has no bitcoins (yet)

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## dannno

> And here is the problem with your bitcoin. You think that owning some fictitious made up scheme of 1's and 0's and *getting in early will make you immensly wealthy in the future*. Basically *transferring the wealth of other individuals in the world to yourselves for nothing*. Whatever happened to *hardwork?* Seems as if everyone in bitcoins is looking for price appreciation and not a stable store of wealth for their hard work.


I completely disagree. 

People who are buying bitcoin are the ones making the whole thing possible for everybody else! They are investing in the infrastructure that allows bitcoin to grow and become more useable by a greater number of people. Meanwhile, stupid people are still investing in stocks. Those who are cautious will continue to hold much of their wealth in physical assets/metals, but nothing is stopping them from hedging with some bitcoin either just in case it shoots the moon. The truth is, those investing in bitcoin may be a vital piece of the puzzle in moving on from the current banking paradigm into the new one. They are the ones helping to free everybody else from slavery. They deserve all the profit they get from it.

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## Indy Vidual

> I completely disagree. 
> 
> People who are buying bitcoin are the ones making the whole thing possible for everybody else! They are investing in the infrastructure that allows bitcoin to grow and become more useable by a greater number of people....


I agree with dannno regarding a moderate % of the people involved. Currently, large numbers of people are panic buying and IMO that is obvious.
I'm not saying the bubble will crash right away, but it IS a bubble, the risk is huge, and crazy people are funny.

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## anaconda

> Even at a future $10,000 valuation per BTC, that means just 3 Bitcoins bought at $100 each today, will top out at $3 MILLION in just a few years.


You lost me...isn't $10,000 X 3 = $30,000 ? Not $3 Million?

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## anaconda

> Gold is easily counterfeited (drilling and filling with tungsten)


People talk about having cold and silver coins when it hits the fan, but how does someone know if the Krugerrand I am about to give them is not a fake? Bit coin seems to solve this problem.

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## Indy Vidual

> People talk about having cold and silver coins when it hits the fan, but how does someone know if the Krugerrand I am about to give them is not a fake? Bit coin seems to solve this problem.


Yes, fake Bitcoins are not a problem, good point.
Security (for individual users, not the network) is an issue though; Bitcoins really are not ready for Prime Time/mainstream usage*, and many of the supporters will agree.
*Things change fast and several new services are developing/blooming now.

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## Peace&Freedom

> You lost me...isn't $10,000 X 3 = $30,000 ? Not $3 Million?


It would have been more exact for me to say that the _percentage_ of growth projected for BTC in the next few years is 10,000% (or 100,000%, following Keiser), meaning 3 Bitcoins worth $100 today will grow to millions in worth in a few years.

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## Indy Vidual

> ...




Does this picture remind you of anyone from around here?

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## anaconda

> And here is the problem with your bitcoin. You think that owning some fictitious made up scheme of 1's and 0's and getting in early will make you immensly wealthy in the future. Basically transferring the wealth of other individuals in the world to yourselves for nothing. Whatever happened to hardwork? Seems as if everyone in bitcoins is looking for price appreciation and not a stable store of wealth for their hard work.


Some people are trying to flee from the inflationary and uncertain aspects of fiat currencies. People in Cyprus might have benefited by simply preserving their money's value with Bitcoins, regardless of any possible capital gains.

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## opal

I'm still kind of kicking myself for not figuring all this out when I first looked into the whole wallet thing when BTCs were around $12.  
Is there the possibility to by fractions of a BTC yet?  Say I had a finite amount of fed notes that did not equal whole numbers of BTC's.. can one buy say 4.25 bitcoins?

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## IDefendThePlatform

> I'm still kind of kicking myself for not figuring all this out when I first looked into the whole wallet thing when BTCs were around $12.  
> Is there the possibility to by fractions of a BTC yet?  Say I had a finite amount of fed notes that did not equal whole numbers of BTC's.. can one buy say 4.25 bitcoins?


Yes, pretty much any of the exchanges will do that. 
Coinbase.com or mtgox.com for example

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## PaulConventionWV

> people trade bitcoins for real goods.


They do?  Are there any examples of this?  I was wondering if people actually utilized this as currency or if they just speculated on it by buying it and storing it.

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## PaulConventionWV

> I could see bitcoins being the tulip bulbs of this millennium...
> 
> "Yeah, a bunch of people invested in imaginary money that was created out of thin air....and also bitcoins!"


I can't see something as revolutionary as a completely digital currency crashing like a commodity that's in a speculation bubble.

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## evilfunnystuff

> They do?  Are there any examples of this?  I was wondering if people actually utilized this as currency or if they just speculated on it by buying it and storing it.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
http://www.bitmit.net/en/

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## Indy Vidual

> I can't see something as revolutionary as a completely digital currency crashing like a commodity that's in a speculation bubble.


What goes up...
The last major correction was ~ -93.5%

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## idiom

Caveat Emptor...




> Bitcoin and other digital currencies are different -- they're just a string of bits.  To validate a coin, therefore, I must know that the one you are presenting to me is unique, that it wasn't just made up by you at random but in fact is a valid coin (you were either transferred it and the chain is intact or you personally "mined" it, a computationally-expensive thing to do), and has not been spent by you somewhere else first.  
> 
> In order to do this the system that implements the currency must maintain and expose a full and complete record of each and every transfer from the origin of that particular coin forward!
> 
> This is the only way I can know that nobody else was presented the same token before I was, and that the last transfer made of that token was to you.  I must know with certainty that both of these conditions are true, and then to be able to spend that coin I must make the fact that I hold it and you transferred it to me known to everyone as well.
> 
> Now consider the typical clandestine transaction -- Joe wishes to buy a bag of pot, which happens to be illegal to transact.  He has Bitcoins to buy the pot with.  He finds a dealer willing to sell the pot despite it being illegal to do so, and transfers the coins to the dealer.  The dealer must verify the block chain of the coins to insure that he is not being given coins that were already spent on gasoline or that Joe didn't counterfeit them, and then he transfers the pot to Joe.  There is now an indelible and permanent record of the transfer of funds and that record will never go away.
> 
> This creates several problems for both Joe and the dealer.  The dealer can (and might) take steps such as using "throw-away" wallets to try to unlink the transfer from his person, but that's dangerous.  In all jurisdictions "structuring" transactions to evade money laundering or reporting constraints is a separate and unique crime and usually is a felony.  Therefore, the very act of trying to split up transactions or use of "throw-away" wallets in and of itself is likely to be ruled a crime, leaving any party doing that exposed to separate and distinct criminal charges (along with whatever else they can bust you for.)


http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219284



What it needs is a small region like Somalia to move to bitcoin and have a company or two start paying employees in bitcoin with a cashless payment system.

Then anyone could trace any transaction made to anyone. Ever.

Bitcoin, the ultimate end of privacy in transactions.

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## Petar

> Caveat Emptor...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219284
> 
> 
> 
> What it needs is a small region like Somalia to move to bitcoin and have a company or two start paying employees in bitcoin with a cashless payment system.



That would be ok, but money-laundering involved with piracy is a very big problem there, and that could easily be some more bad PR.

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## PaulConventionWV

So I have a question... I bought about 6.5 BTC yesterday, and blockchain.info said BTC was at about 93.5 USD/BTC.  I get home from Walmart, and at the same approximate price, my BTC were only worth $601.  Now, at almost $99/BTC, my stash is worth about what I bought it for, which is $650.  Was there a spike in value that I didn't know about while I was at WalMart?  I feel cheated out of the recent $8 rise.  My BTC stash seems to have chopped $50 off the price I bought them for.

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## newbitech

> So I have a question... I bought about 6.5 BTC yesterday, and blockchain.info said BTC was at about 93.5 USD/BTC.  I get home from Walmart, and at the same approximate price, my BTC were only worth $601.  Now, at almost $99/BTC, my stash is worth about what I bought it for, which is $650.  Was there a spike in value that I didn't know about while I was at WalMart?  I feel cheated out of the recent $8 rise.  My BTC stash seems to have chopped $50 off the price I bought them for.



i would guess slippage?

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## newbitech

btw, I see 2 very large block for sale at 99.99 and 100 USD.  Represents over 500k.  If the thing breaks thru 100 this week, or even today...

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## PaulConventionWV

> i would guess slippage?


What do you mean?  Where did my $50 go?  I'm not demanding, I'm asking.

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## PaulConventionWV

> btw, I see 2 very large block for sale at 99.99 and 100 USD.  Represents over 500k.  If the thing breaks thru 100 this week, or even today...


Then what?  It's on the cusp right now.

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## newbitech

> Then what?  It's on the cusp right now.


it would be a key psychological break thru.  The nature of BTC I believe is the sliding decimal, its a key characteristic.   The next psychological number I think would be 1000...

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## newbitech

wow and there it goes!!!  something like 800k was just used to buy up btc in about 10 seconds!  that was awesome!

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## newbitech

another 100k worth and it breaks out.

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## jclay2

At this rate, $/bitcoin could hit 10000 by next year. $ 200, at a minimum seems like a done deal.

/endsarc

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## Cshelton21

> What do you mean?  Where did my $50 go?  I'm not demanding, I'm asking.


Depending on who you bought from, you may have lost some of it in fee's. Bit instant and MtGox took around 10 bucks from my original deposit.

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## PaulConventionWV

> I'm still kind of kicking myself for not figuring all this out when I first looked into the whole wallet thing when BTCs were around $12.  
> Is there the possibility to by fractions of a BTC yet?  Say I had a finite amount of fed notes that did not equal whole numbers of BTC's.. can one buy say 4.25 bitcoins?


They are divisible to 8 decimal places.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Depending on who you bought from, you may have lost some of it in fee's. Bit instant and MtGox took around 10 bucks from my original deposit.


Well, there was 7.90 added to the original price for ZipZap fees, but other than that, I don't see where it went.  I'm just a little confused about that.  At this rate, though, I'm making a profit either way.  We'll see how far it goes.

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## Lightweis

should i buy in guys? its at 102 right now

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## newbitech

> should i buy in guys? its at 102 right now


are you holding? or swinging, cause you missed the swing this morning.

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## Lightweis

> are you holding? or swinging, cause you missed the swing this morning.


I haven't done anything yet. I want to get involved!

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## evilfunnystuff

> Well, there was 7.90 added to the original price for ZipZap fees, but other than that, I don't see where it went.  I'm just a little confused about that.  At this rate, though, I'm making a profit either way.  We'll see how far it goes.


4% to bitinstant $3.xx to zipzap and .6% to mtgox?

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## FSP-Rebel

@ $103.31 now

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## evilfunnystuff

> should i buy in guys? its at 102 right now


If I had more cash rigjt now I'd probly grab somemore, it might drop a little though but  I, d probly just buy now.

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## presence

> should i buy in guys? its at 102 right now



147 this afternoon.  That's almost 50% on your money in two days if you were playing ball!

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## The Northbreather

Heh

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