# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Thomas Massie Forum >  Merry Christmas from the Massie family

## jct74

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...97523127422979

https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/comme...presentatives/

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## Occam's Banana

https://twitter.com/Reed_Coverdale/s...03777664991233

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## GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged

Massie is freaking cool! Guy knows how to do it and he actually does it. I like him.

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## jct74

This photo is getting a lot of news coverage BTW; I guess some people are offended that he put out the pic too soon after a school shooting.  I personally don't see anything wrong with it at all.  What's funny is I posted a reddit link in the OP where people are discussing it and don't really seem to have a problem with it.  If you compare that with the r/Libertarian sub though the comments are much more negative in the "libertarian" sub.  That place has really turned into a joke the past few years.

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## jkr

wheres my card Tom???

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## GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged

The deer on his property don't stand a chance.

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## phill4paul

Cry your liberal tears....





> Democratic U.S. Representative John Yarmuth, who chairs the U.S. House of Representatives Budget Committee, condemned his fellow Kentuckian's post.
> 
> "I’m old enough to remember Republicans screaming that it was insensitive to try to protect people from gun violence after a tragedy," Yarmuth wrote on Twitter, apparently referring to calls for gun control laws.
> 
> "I promise not everyone in Kentucky is an insensitive $#@!," he added.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-congres...025707888.html

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## GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged

> Cry your liberal tears....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-congres...025707888.html


Do you think Thomas will tuck his tail between his legs and make a formal apology?

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## phill4paul

> Do you think Thomas will tuck his tail between his legs and make a formal apology?


 Not in the least.

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## phill4paul

Lol.

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## acptulsa

> Lol.


That's good.  But tending to overcomplicate things, I'd have said, there are six BARs, three in each wing.

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## jct74

TIL what an M60 is. 




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=523J0F_0hkg

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## phill4paul

> TIL what an M60 is. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=523J0F_0hkg


  Well there goes a good week's paycheck.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Well there goes a good week's paycheck.


Unfortunately, that’s what it’s come to. Ammo is so expensive, you don’t want to shoot too much anymore.

This is what I see when they are firing that gun...

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## Anti Globalist

Massie is a $#@!ing legend and this just cements it even more.

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## Occam's Banana

LOL. An editor at "Reason" was triggered by this:

https://twitter.com/billybinion/stat...84779624280064


To which good ol' Spike Cohen replied:

https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/s...60493338161156


(Spike is the only really good thing to come out of any Libertarian Party POTUS/VP ticket since Harry Browne.)

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## Occam's Banana

LMAO #SassyWithMassie

https://twitter.com/Scaramucci/statu...62601508216833

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## Occam's Banana

https://twitter.com/EricDJuly/status...53266700140545

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## Brian4Liberty

> LMAO #SassyWithMassie
> 
> https://twitter.com/Scaramucci/statu...62601508216833


“Scaramouche; from Italian Scaramuccia [skaraˈmuttʃa], literally "little skirmisher") is a stock clown character of the 16th-century commedia dell'arte (comic theatrical arts of Italian literature). The role combined characteristics of the Zanni (servant) and the Capitano (masked henchman), with some assortment of villainous traits. Usually attired in black Spanish dress and burlesquing a Don, he was often beaten by Harlequin for his boasting and cowardice.”

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## Anti Federalist

> This photo is getting a lot of news coverage BTW; I guess some people are offended that he put out the pic too soon after a school shooting


Too soon after a school shooting that has all the approved "baddies" and is already being used as a political weapon.

Had the Crumbley kid not done anything and Massie released that photo, the Marxists would not have said a word, since the only school shooting on recent radar was that black kid in Texas that did pretty much the same thing a few weeks prior.

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## Anti Federalist

> “Scaramouche; from Italian Scaramuccia [skaraˈmuttʃa], literally "little skirmisher") is a stock clown character of the 16th-century commedia dell'arte (comic theatrical arts of Italian literature). The role combined characteristics of the Zanni (servant) and the Capitano (masked henchman), with some assortment of villainous traits. Usually attired in black Spanish dress and burlesquing a Don, he was often beaten by Harlequin for his boasting and cowardice.”


"Will you do the Fandango?"

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## Anti Federalist

Aww, is Billy scared?

No true libertarian would ever use the term "gun culture".

Nothing is more important, as guns in the hands of citizens is the single greatest metric of the relationship of man and government.

Just another soy boy fagggot, interested in "rights" only so far as smoking weed, buying doge coins and marrying his boyfriend is concerned.





> LOL. An editor at "Reason" was triggered by this:
> 
> https://twitter.com/billybinion/stat...84779624280064
> 
> 
> To which good ol' Spike Cohen replied:
> 
> https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/s...60493338161156
> 
> ...

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## Anti Federalist

IIRC Massie lives not too far from the Knob Creek range *where they held the last one of these*, this year.

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## CaptUSA

> Aww, is Billy scared?
> 
> No true libertarian would ever use the term "gun culture".
> 
> Nothing is more important, as guns in the hands of citizens is the single greatest metric of the relationship of man and government.
> 
> Just another soy boy fagggot, interested in "rights" only so far as smoking weed, buying doge coins and marrying his boyfriend is concerned.


So, I'm going to say this knowing it may not be the most popular opinion...

I think we need to be a little careful defining what "true libertarians" will say.  We run the risk of pushing these people into the hands of the Marxist left.  Based on his articles, this guy seems to be focused on the criminal justice farce of government.  That's a good thing.  

To me, his dumbass Twitter comment is clearly centered in the urban/rural divide.  Many people who grow up in the cities have been taught to _fear_ guns - not just to respect them.  When they hear shots in their neighborhood, they're not wondering who is practicing or if someone bagged a deer.  They can very easily equate gun use to crime.  From my perspective, this guy is suffering from the "fear culture" of the cities.  But I can recognize that he's not viewing the world with the same perspective as I am.  From his perspective, proper gun use (and gun display) is to protect people from their fears.

Let's not fall into the trap that all true libertarians have to share the same perspective.  It's never going to happen.  What's worse is that we end up in a circular firing squad going after those who would support us instead of the true enemies.  He started it by making a stupid statement about the rural perspective, but no need to cast him aside so quickly or turn him against us.  It'd be better to educate him on how different environments create different viewpoints, but we all need the freedom to allow different viewpoints to exist.  In other words, _expanding_ the range of libertarian thought rather than reducing it.

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## Anti Federalist

> So, I'm going to say this knowing it may not be the most popular opinion...
> 
> I think we need to be a little careful defining what "true libertarians" will say.  We run the risk of pushing these people into the hands of the Marxist left.  Based on his articles, this guy seems to be focused on the criminal justice farce of government.  That's a good thing.  
> 
> To me, his dumbass Twitter comment is clearly centered in the urban/rural divide.  Many people who grow up in the cities have been taught to _fear_ guns - not just to respect them.  When they hear shots in their neighborhood, they're not wondering who is practicing or if someone bagged a deer.  They can very easily equate gun use to crime.  From my perspective, this guy is suffering from the "fear culture" of the cities.  But I can recognize that he's not viewing the world with the same perspective as I am.  From his perspective, proper gun use (and gun display) is to protect people from their fears.
> 
> Let's not fall into the trap that all true libertarians have to share the same perspective.  It's never going to happen.  What's worse is that we end up in a circular firing squad going after those who would support us instead of the true enemies.  He started it by making a stupid statement about the rural perspective, but no need to cast him aside so quickly or turn him against us.  It'd be better to educate him on how different environments create different viewpoints, but we all need the freedom to allow different viewpoints to exist.  In other words, _expanding_ the range of libertarian thought rather than reducing it.


You've got a valid point, I'd be wiling to retract the personal slanders, but not the statement on what guns in the hands of citizens *means*.

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## TheTexan

> IIRC Massie lives not too far from the Knob Creek range *where they held the last one of these*, this year.


... and the rockets red glare, and the bombs bursting in air....

gave proof, through the night, that our flag was still there.

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## Occam's Banana

> So, I'm going to say this knowing it may not be the most popular opinion...
> 
> I think we need to be a little careful defining what "true libertarians" will say.  We run the risk of pushing these people into the hands of the Marxist left.  Based on his articles, this guy seems to be focused on the criminal justice farce of government.  That's a good thing.  
> 
> To me, his dumbass Twitter comment is clearly centered in the urban/rural divide.  Many people who grow up in the cities have been taught to _fear_ guns - not just to respect them.  When they hear shots in their neighborhood, they're not wondering who is practicing or if someone bagged a deer.  They can very easily equate gun use to crime.  From my perspective, this guy is suffering from the "fear culture" of the cities.  But I can recognize that he's not viewing the world with the same perspective as I am.  From his perspective, proper gun use (and gun display) is to protect people from their fears.
> 
> Let's not fall into the trap that all true libertarians have to share the same perspective.  It's never going to happen.  What's worse is that we end up in a circular firing squad going after those who would support us instead of the true enemies.  He started it by making a stupid statement about the rural perspective, but no need to cast him aside so quickly or turn him against us.  It'd be better to educate him on how different environments create different viewpoints, but we all need the freedom to allow different viewpoints to exist.  In other words, _expanding_ the range of libertarian thought rather than reducing it.


I don't really disagree with any of this. But I would note, however, that Binion himself injected the issue of libertarian "credentials" when he chose to frame his remarks with the preface, "I say this as a libertarian ...".

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## Occam's Banana

> Nothing is more important, as guns in the hands of citizens is the single greatest metric of the relationship of man and government.


And for that very reason, gun ownership is a light that should not be hidden under a bushel.

The more "normalized" it is, the more effective it will be for the purpose AF identified.

It should absolutely be normalized - and good for Massie for doing his bit as a prominent public figure.

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## CaptUSA

> I don't really disagree with any of this. But I would note, however, that Binion himself injected the issue of libertarian "credentials" when he chose to frame his remarks with the preface, "I say this as a libertarian ...".


Agreed.  His statement was stupid.  And narrow-mindedly focused on his own limited perspective.  Especially, since Massie is taking a lot of heat for posting that.  My preferred method is to deal with that through education instead of mockery.  Those who hold libertarian views are so rare these days that I'm not fond of driving more wedges between us.

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## CaptUSA

> And for that very reason, gun ownership is a light that should not be hidden under a bushel.
> 
> The more "normalized" it is, the more effective it will be for the purpose AF identified.
> 
> It should absolutely be normalized - and good for Massie for doing his bit as a prominent public figure.


Just remember that it's a perspective thing.  Here, I'll give you an example...

Most libertarians agree that sex between consenting adults is none of the government's business.  Even if someone is getting paid for it.  But depending on our own perspective, some people may find it in bad taste for, say, a Las Vegas Congressperson to flaunt it by having whores draped over his arms.  One could make the case that the more it is "normalized", the more effective it will be for liberty.  But you could have others (who also support that right) that may not like it being portrayed at "cutesy".

Both points of view can legitimately be held.  It's one of the things that make liberty so great.  Billy could learn that lesson, but so could all of us.

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## Occam's Banana

> Just remember that it's a perspective thing.  Here, I'll give you an example...
> 
> Most libertarians agree that sex between consenting adults is none of the government's business.  Even if someone is getting paid for it.  But depending on our own perspective, some people may find it in bad taste for, say, a Las Vegas Congressperson to flaunt it by having whores draped over his arms.  One could make the case that the more it is "normalized", the more effective it will be for liberty.  But you could have others (who also support that right) that may not like it being portrayed at "cutesy".
> 
> Both points of view can legitimately be held.  It's one of the things that make liberty so great.  Billy could learn that lesson, but so could all of us.


I get your point, and would otherwise agree. But in this particular case, I find I must disagree. The implications of "normalization" with respect to guns (or any other mechanisms or activities that are or could be involved with the application of force) are neither analogous with nor the same with respect to prostitution (or drug use, or any other "indecorous" activity that does not involve or is not implicated in the application of force). That is, your statement "that the more it is 'normalized', the more effective it will be for liberty" does not apply to the latter as it does to the former.

In both theory and practice, libertarianism is concerned with the legitimate use of force in society. The right to defend oneself against aggression - whether from individuals or even the government - is fundamental to that concern. It is thus critical that the means by which that right (and ultimately, every other right) is to be asserted and maintained should be "normalized".

IOW: The "normalization" of possessing the capacity to defend oneself from aggressors is absolutely critical to the establishment and preservation of liberty, but the "normalization" of snorting a line of blow from off a hooker's ass is not. (And what is more, the "normalization" of the first of those things will help maintain the liberty to engage in the second - but not the other way around.)

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## Occam's Banana

Honcho priest of the redcoats chiming in:

https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/stat...12054140985348

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## Occam's Banana

From Charlie Sykes' bio: "Contributor, MSNBC"

https://twitter.com/ThomasEWoods/sta...71874442412033

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## Occam's Banana

https://twitter.com/jeffdeist/status...64181526892545

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## jct74

And now there's this.  LOL.

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