# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Gaza Humanitarian Flotilla attacked [breaking News]

## pcosmar

Gaza Humanitarian Flotilla attacked.
Unarmed ship attacked in International Waters.
2 dead 30 wounded.
MSM is ignoring this.
Watching the live feed.
http://www.livestream.com/insaniyard...t=insaniyardim

http://www.google.com/#q=gaza+flotil...faec81a4cac4b3

----------


## Agorism

I can't understand what that guy is saying.

----------


## wgadget

Try this one:

http://www.ipadio.com/phlogs/Gaza_TV...15th-phonecast

----------


## pcosmar

> I can't understand what that guy is saying.


There have been a few English speakers from time to time.
Watching the videos of Commandos dropping from a helicopter and shots being fired.
Wounded being moved. 

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=59257

http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news...mavi-mari.html

----------


## >shaw

http://twitpic.com/1sndgg

CHECK OUT THIS PIC , U CAN SEE THEM SHOOTING

----------


## Agorism

> European Parliamentarians amongst the wounded


How do you know that?

----------


## Immortal Technique

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020202

----------


## >shaw

> How do you know that?


Disregard that got a false source although it might still be true

----------


## pcosmar

> How do you know that?


There were dozens on board, but no confirmation on who the casualties are yet.

----------


## fj45lvr

I'll be happy as hell when these zionist scum reap their judgment.   It only took them less than 20 years to become the oppressors when they had just lived through being the oppressed (totally mind-blowing and sad).

Hopefully the Israeli resistance movement will grow and this back-fires on the "police state"...more and more Israeli youth are leaving Israel which is a good sign that they are not all "hardened" scum.

----------


## t0rnado

No MSM reports of any casualties or injuries just reports of an interception.

----------


## Hiki

> http://twitpic.com/1sndgg
> 
> CHECK OUT THIS PIC , U CAN SEE THEM SHOOTING


That video was just on BBC, it's the guns flashlight.

----------


## devil21

Al Jazeera video of the assault

YouTube - Israeli troops storm Gaza flotilla

This is reported to have happened in international waters which makes it an act of war.  The question is against who?

----------


## pcosmar

Reports now have 10 dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...rotest/?hpt=T2

----------


## fj45lvr

Imagine what kind of response we'd see if the Iranians attacked  humanitarian vessels in international waters.

The hypocrisy is nauseating.  

I'd say this "mission" by the activists was a complete success either way (arriving or this).

----------


## libertythor

Look.  I am not pro or anti Israel, and I beleive that the US should stay out of this and all other similar affairs in the middle east.    However, this action by the Israeli military was uncalled for.   If it is a matter of Israeli sovereignty, the proper thing to do would have been board them and process them for deportation.  

Israel is $#@!ing up big time and is acting like an A1 douche.

----------


## fj45lvr

How about the "sovereignty" of Gaza??    Israel claims the sea bordering it?  What a joke.

If Israel doesn't like getting attacked maybe they should have thought twice before they violently stole lands from people thinking that they'd "grow old and forget" (to quote their arrogant leader).

The worm is finally turning and many of us Jews are happy to see it....its been long over due.

No CLOWNS, or American Jews speaking the truth about the zionist regime allowed

----------


## sluggo

http://www.thejidf.org/2010/05/israe...ter-being.html




> _Unfortunately, this is becoming another PR nightmare for Israel, who  we  believe should have threatened these Hamas sympathizers all along.  Let   this be a message to any "peace activists" who try to aid and abet the   enemies of the Jewish people and Israel. _

----------


## Vessol

> http://www.thejidf.org/2010/05/israe...ter-being.html
> 
> _Unfortunately, this is becoming another PR nightmare for Israel, who we  believe should have threatened these Hamas sympathizers all along.  Let  this be a message to any "peace activists" who try to aid and abet the  enemies of the Jewish people and Israel. _


Oh yeah. Giving food and medicine to starving Palestinians whom are under siege in their own lands is aiding the enemy. Go back to your neocon hole, you scum. (Talking to the author of the article, not Sluggo, he's quoting the article, just want to clarify)

I'm not against Israeli's, but I'm against the Israeli government which does not act in its peoples interests.

This is a $#@!ing joke. Israel wouldn't be this bold if it wasn't for the U.S and half of Europe holding them tight and protecting them. I say, let them make their own PR nightmare and let them fight off their enemies themselves. See how long they last.

----------


## tjeffersonsghost

> This is a $#@!ing joke. Israel wouldn't be this bold if it wasn't for the U.S and half of Europe holding them tight and protecting them. I say, let them make their own PR nightmare and let them fight off their enemies themselves. See how long they last.


Yup

----------


## fj45lvr

I cannot believe the nerve and gall of these activists to try to attack commandos dropping on them from helicopters!!!

who the hell do think they are to resist commandos??   That have Stiiiiiinking badges!!!


if they were "peaceful" they would just roll over and be arrested in international waters and let the IDF take over their vessels to plant whatever weapons the IDF sees fit to plant.

----------


## rancher89

Latest reports are as many as 20 dead....

----------


## sluggo

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=176995




> Benayahu  said soldiers, who had been dispatched to block the flotilla because of  fears that it was carrying weaponry and other highly dangerous cargo  into the Hamas-controlled Strip, were attacked with knives and bars and  sharpened metal implements. 
> *
> Benayahu said two pistols that had  been fired were subsequently found aboard the one ship, the Marmara, on  which the violence erupted. And, most dramatically, he said that one IDF  soldier had his weapon snatched away by one of the “peace activists” on  board, that this weapon was then turned against the IDF soldiers, who  came under fire, and that they had no choice but to shoot back in  self-defense.*
> 
> Benayahu’s chilling description was echoed by Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon at a late-morning  briefing that was delivered, with typical misdirected focus,  overwhelmingly in Hebrew. This had been a deliberate provocation,  charged Ayalon. At least some of those aboard the Marmara had been  hell-bent on violence, he said.
> 
> Alongside those credible  characterizations are the facts, the distortions and the rumors. As of  this writing, it is reported that 14 or 15 people were killed aboard the  Marmara, that dozens more were injured, and that several soldiers were  hurt, including two who were badly injured.


Sounds like they've watched too many Chuck Norris movies.

----------


## Meatwasp

Now maybe those of you who didn't believe the attack on the USS Liberty didn't happen will change their minds.

----------


## fj45lvr

> Now maybe those of you who didn't believe the attack on the USS Liberty didn't happen will change their minds.


who doesn't believe the Liberty was attacked??  even the Israelis state publicly it was attacked....just a "mistake" (no matter that a US flag was flying in a stiff breeze while they were attacked for hours).

----------


## rancher89

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_683817.html

updated 5:36 AM 

"JERUSALEM  Israeli commandos stormed six ships today carrying hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists on an aid mission to the blockaded Gaza Strip,* killing at least 10 people* and wounding dozens after encountering unexpected resistance as the forces boarded the vessels."

So it's 10 dead, the 20 came from the live feed I'm listening to, they've changed that to 20-60 wounded...not confirmed elsewhere yet....

Also Turkey has recalled their Ambassador

http://www.todayonline.com/BreakingN...-convoy-affair

----------


## Meatwasp

> who doesn't believe the Liberty was attacked??  even the Israelis state publicly it was attacked....just a "mistake" (no matter that a US flag was flying in a stiff breeze while they were attacked for hours).


My bad. wrong wording.

----------


## fj45lvr

IDF sources now confirm that one raided ship contained Iranian enriched plutonium in an attache case covered with the fingerprints of Osama Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri.

----------


## sluggo

> IDF sources now confirm that one raided ship contained Iranian enriched plutonium in an attache case covered with the fingerprints of Osama Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri.


..... as well as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's drivers license.

----------


## SooperDave

Doesn't look like the Israelis will be able to cover up/hide this mess.

Will Obama stand behind this act or condemn it...should be interesting.

----------


## fj45lvr

> And this $#@!ing boat was intentionally sailing straight into a military naval blockade with no authorization being constantly warned that they will be intercepted. The people on the flotilla were just plain $#@!ing stupid and had it coming.
> .



They are brave as hell and accomplished their mission.  This will help free Palestine.



I do agree that what is "stupid as hell" is HAMAS and their firing of their worthless piece of $#@! missiles out of GAZA.   

the Palestinians are understandably frustrated but they don't do themselves any favors that is for certain....Vengeance belongs to God.  I'm sure he'll deal with the murderers on both side of this conflict in short order.

----------


## angelatc

> On the one hand, we don't have a dog in this hunt (most of us).  On the other hand, if this happened in international waters it may very well escalate to a military level incident... and the US, being the big bully it is, will HAVE to get involved.  That *will* impact me.


This is one of the few times - maybe the only time -  that I'm glad Obama is in office. He seems to be less inclined to bend over for Israel than any mainstream Republican in recent history.

----------


## Vessol

> This is one of the few times - maybe the only time -  that I'm glad Obama is in office. He seems to be less inclined to bend over for Israel than any mainstream Republican in recent history.


Publicly.

----------


## Vessol

What's hilarious is that everytime I open this thread there is a google ad for a ISRAELI/AMERICAN SUPPORT CREDIT CARD! SUPPORT ISRAEL!

----------


## angelatc

> Publicly.


Well, he and Netenyahu have had some pretty public spats, and Obama seems petty enough to hold a grudge.   With Rahm Emmanuel as his COS, I'll bet there's some tense moments in the Oval Office.

----------


## DAFTEK

*Turkey: Future Gaza Aid Ships Will Have Military Escorts*

*Massacre Further Harms Israel-Turkey Ties*

by Jason Ditz, May 31, 2010 

Email This | Print This | Share This | Antiwar Forum 
Once Israel’s closest ally in the region, the Turkish government has reacted with fury at last night’s Gaza aid ship massacre, condemning it as ‘inhuman state terror.’
 Turkey's Navy will reportedly protect future aid ships

The attacked ship was Turkish in origin and at least two of the slain aid workers were Turkish citizens. Turkey says future aid ships will be dispatched with a military escort so as to prevent future Israeli attacks.
Turko-Israeli relations have been on the decline in recent months, including a staged photo-op by the Israeli Foreign Ministry designed to shame Turkey’s ambassador. Israel also reportedly arrested a Turkish citizen weeks ago for being a member of a humanitarian group involved with the aid ship.
Israeli officials have defended the killings as “self defense,” claiming the aid workers were secretly in league with al-Qaeda. A top Israeli investment house has also called for a divestment from Turkey to protest Turkey’s criticism of the massacre.

----------


## angelatc

> Israeli officials have defended the killings as “self defense,” claiming the aid workers were secretly in league with al-Qaeda.


Oh, but of course they were!

They were smuggling in the WMDs that Iraq managed to smuggle out right before the invasion, too!

----------


## The Patriot

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/3...eaves-10-dead/

The left-wing activists on board a flotilla carrying aid to the Gaza Strip tried to lynch the Israel Navy commandos who stormed their Turkish-flagged ship early Monday, Israel Defense Forces sources told Haaretz.

The commandos, who intercepted the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara after it ignored orders to turn back, said they encountered violent resistance from activists armed with sticks and knives. According to the soldiers, the activists threw one of their comrades from the upper deck to the lower after they boarded.

Activists attacked a commando with iron bars as he descended onto the ship from a helicopter, the army said. The IDF said its rules of engagement allowed troops to open fire in what it called a life-threatening situation.

The soldiers said they were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of their comrades in the head and trampled on him. A senior field commander ordered the soldiers then to respond with fire, a decision which the commandos said received full backing the military echelon.

At least 10 people were killed and several more wounded after the Israel Navy troops opened fire on the six-ship flotilla. Unofficial reports put the death toll at between 14 and 20.

Ynet has a more detailed timeline of the confrontation:

A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessels bridge and order the Marmaras captain to stop.

Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operations commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other dont shoot, dont shoot, even though they sustained numerous blows.

The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.

The planned rush towards the vessels bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. Throw stun grenades, shouted Flotilla 13s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.

The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.

Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.


YouTube - "Peace activists" stabbing IDF soldier

YouTube - Demonstrators Use Violence Against Israeli Navy Soldiers Attempting to Board Ship

----------


## speciallyblend

what legal means did they have to board the ship in international waters??

----------


## Vessol

> what legal means did they have to board the ship in international waters??


According to some here, Israel has the right to declare waters to be whatever they want, so they were Israeli waters.

----------


## The Patriot

> what legal means did they have to board the ship in international waters??


What legal means do these Turkish activists have to attack Israeli soldiers and initiate violence?

----------


## speciallyblend

> What legal means do these Turkish activists have to attack Israeli soldiers and initiate violence?


when they illegally board a ship in international waters.  i can imagine myself at home/boat and having someone bust in my door or board my boat. i would be shooting and fighting back!!  unless someone had a legal warrant!

----------


## speciallyblend

> What legal means do these Turkish activists have to attack Israeli soldiers and initiate violence?


seems to be they were on their own ship and in international waters.  why can't the idf board a ship in their own waters??

----------


## Vessol

This is like a crew on a cargo boat getting blamed for being massacred by Somali pirates which boarded their ship.

----------


## DAFTEK

> What legal means do these Turkish activists have to attack Israeli soldiers and initiate violence?


Are you serious??  wtf?? get lost %$#@%#@%^....

----------


## The Patriot

> when they illegally board a ship in international waters.


75, 68, no difference to me, only a matter of miles. Are you saying that you would have supported the IDF if the boat was within the 68 mile boundary, and that attacking soldiers with lethal intent who had no malintent would not be justified? Seems you are justifying lethal force against peaceful army officials by only a matter of 7 miles.

----------


## Srg1

> What legal means do these Turkish activists have to attack Israeli soldiers and initiate violence?


Self defense

----------


## The Patriot

> Self defense


You mean when Israeli soldiers defended themselves against violent activists for conducting a peaceful routine inspection and a peaceful request for withdrawal of the boat?

----------


## fj45lvr

> What legal means do these Turkish activists have to attack Israeli soldiers and initiate violence?


Do you have a legal right to attack me as I simply bend you over and have my way with you??  

You apologists are hilarious with the lengths you go to support ethnic cleansing and theft.    

Colonialism is alive and well and can happen anytime in any age.

----------


## Vessol

> You mean when Israeli soldiers defended themselves against violent activists for conducting a peaceful routine inspection and a peaceful request for withdrawal of the boat?


You sir are a master at Doublethink.

Rappelling onto a privately owned ship in international waters armed to the teeth=peaceful.

----------


## fj45lvr

there is no "boundary"....

where is the authority to declare a boundary over Palestinian waters and lands??


hilarious.

----------


## speciallyblend

> 75, 68, no difference to me, only a matter of miles. Are you saying that you would have supported the IDF if the boat was within the 68 mile boundary, and that attacking soldiers with lethal intent who had no malintent would not be justified? Seems you are justifying lethal force against peaceful army officials by only a matter of 7 miles.


7 miles is the difference between legal and illegal, so what your saying is you support illegal activity by the idf!!  what is on the ship that can;t wait 7 miles. where they gonna use glass sling shot to destroy the idf??  the idf broke laws , they could of waited until they had legal authority. are you suggesting an aid ship could of destroyed israel after 7 miles? they could of easily chose to board legally but they did not! they ignored international laws and broke the law themselves by boarding. self defense is pretty clear here!! the idf are the terrorists in this case!!

----------


## DAFTEK

> Self defense


 
+1776, some here are just plain stupid or biased and racists!

----------


## The Patriot

> Do you have a legal right to attack me as I simply bend you over and have my way with you??  
> 
> You apologists are hilarious with the lengths you go to support ethnic cleansing and theft.    
> 
> Colonialism is alive and well and can happen anytime in any age.


No,you don't have a legal right to attack me, as turkish activists dont have a right to attack Israeli soldiers who were completely peaceful. Why shouldn't Israelis be allowed to defend themselves?

----------


## Srg1

> You mean when Israeli soldiers defended themselves against violent activists for conducting a peaceful routine inspection and a peaceful request for withdrawal of the boat?


The way i see it is if someone invades my house or property and they are armed i have every right to defend myself.Israel was the aggressor.

----------


## Vessol

> No,you don't have a legal right to attack me, as turkish activists dont have a right to attack Israeli soldiers who were completely peaceful. Why shouldn't Israelis be allowed to defend themselves?


How are armed men decending on a privately owned ship "defending themselves".

If someone ever breaks into your house and is armed with a handgun and points it at you, just remember. He's only defending himself.

----------


## The Patriot

> 7 miles is the difference between legal and illegal, so what your saying is you support illegal acitvity by the idf!!


So violence against soldiers who were peaceful is ok 75 miles away from shore? Why do you support violence and anarchy? Being an enemy combatant is illegal under international law. Theses non-uniformed  activists atacked Israeli soldiers

----------


## speciallyblend

> No,you don't have a legal right to attack me, as turkish activists dont have a right to attack Israeli soldiers who were completely peaceful. Why shouldn't Israelis be allowed to defend themselves?


i have the legal right to attack/defend you if you illegally board my ship or bust down my door!! with no legal authority!

----------


## Vessol

> So violence against soldiers who were peaceful is ok 75 miles away from shore? Why do you support violence and anarchy? Being an enemy combatant is illegal under international law. Theses non-uniformed  activists atacked Israeli soldiers


Please answer my question. How are armed soldiers coming onto a privately owned ship in international waters peaceful.

If someone breaks into your house and points a gun at you, is he peaceful too?

----------


## DAFTEK

> Oh, but of course they were!
> 
> They were smuggling in the WMDs that Iraq managed to smuggle out right before the invasion, too!


Faux News is also reporting that the ship had al-Qaeda terrorists on board! Yet this ship had activists from many nations and the boat was checked by Turkey before it left port. They can lie all they want, this will backfire big time...

----------


## speciallyblend

> So violence against soldiers who were peaceful is ok 75 miles away from shore? Why do you support violence and anarchy? Being an enemy combatant is illegal under international law. Theses non-uniformed  activists atacked Israeli soldiers


those idf soldiers broke the law by boarding the ship illegally!!! in international waters. they should of waited until they had legal means aka not in international waters!!

----------


## The Patriot

> i have the legal right to attack/defend you if you illegally board my ship or bust down my door!! with no legal authority!


You have the right to be an unlawful combatant and initiate violence against uniformed soldiers?

This kooky idea of introducing private property rights to this conversation is absurd, we are not an anarcho-capitalist society. By Vessol's logic, the violence against the Israeli soldiers would have been justified within the 68 mile mark as the boat is "private property".

----------


## DAFTEK

> So violence against soldiers who were peaceful is ok 75 miles away from shore? Why do you support violence and anarchy? Being an enemy combatant is illegal under international law. Theses non-uniformed activists atacked Israeli soldiers


 

lol....... You are a lost case... or Troll...

----------


## YumYum

> *So violence against soldiers who were peaceful* is ok 75 miles away from shore? Why do you support violence and anarchy? Being an enemy combatant is illegal under international law. Theses non-uniformed  activists atacked Israeli soldiers


Who said they were peaceful? Since when are Israeli soldiers peaceful? How do you know they were peaceful? What do you think, that the soldiers dropped in to try the hummus and tabouli?

----------


## Srg1

> You have the right to be an unlawful combatant and initiate violence against uniformed soldiers?
> 
> This kooky idea of introducing private property rights to this conversation is absurd, we are not an anarcho-capitalist society. By Vessol's logic, the violence against the Israeli soldiers would have been justified within the 68 mile mark as the boat is "private property".



What about the ghetto jews that resisted the uniformed nazis in germany and poland where they unlawful for defending themself?

----------


## Vessol

> Who said they were peaceful? Since when are Israeli soldiers peaceful? How do you know they were peaceful? What do you think, that the soldiers dropped in to try the hummus and tabouli?


I guess Israel hasn't released the video of the soldiers descending and offering flowers to the aid workers.

----------


## speciallyblend

> You have the right to be an unlawful combatant and initiate violence against uniformed soldiers?
> 
> This kooky idea of introducing private property rights to this conversation is absurd, we are not an anarcho-capitalist society. By Vessol's logic, the violence against the Israeli soldiers would have been justified within the 68 mile mark as the boat is "private property".


i have a right to international law, please show me where the idf has any legal right to board a private ship in international waters??  

you actually need a f-in warrant to board a ship in international waters!! the unlawful combatant and initiated violence was the idf boarding a ship illegally!! ello anyone home?

----------


## The Patriot

> What about the ghetto jews that resisted the uniformed nazis in germany and poland where they unlawful for defending themself?


The Nazis started killing Jews, the Turk Activists attacked first as well.

----------


## LibertyWorker

> You have the right to be an unlawful combatant and initiate violence against uniformed soldiers?
> 
> This kooky idea of introducing private property rights to this conversation is absurd, we are not an anarcho-capitalist society. By Vessol's logic, the violence against the Israeli soldiers would have been justified within the 68 mile mark as the boat is "private property".


I'm sorry but I've read your last few posts. The only thing kooky I see is your blind love for Israel beyond any kind of reason or rationale.

----------


## speciallyblend

> The Nazis started killing Jews, the Turk Activists attacked first as well.


boarding a ship in international waters! vs occupied germany hmmmm

----------


## Srg1

> The Nazis started killing Jews, the Turk Activists attacked first as well.


Israel attacked the activists first by boarding a peaceful ship in international waters.As i said before that was the first act of aggression.The activists had every right to defend themself.Israel had no authority in those waters and had no authority to be on that private boat.

----------


## Srg1

The idf where put in a tuff situation.Some of the activists where beating the idf with pipes and other objects and they had every right to.But if i was a idf soldier i would have probably done the same thing and started shooting.The thing is israel should have never boarded that boat israel was in the wrong not the idf they where just following orders.It is still israel fault that 20? are dead

----------


## Imaginos

> lol....... You are a lost case... or Troll...


'The Patriot' is a true patriot.
But the only problem is, he is a patriot to Israel.

----------


## DAFTEK

> 'The Patriot' is a true patriot.
> But the only problem is, he is a patriot to Israel.


And he is not alone, if you read a few pages back, we have some seriously biased racist dushbags on this forum..

----------


## specsaregood

> Faux News is also reporting that the ship had al-Qaeda terrorists on board! Yet this ship had activists from many nations and the boat was checked by Turkey before it left port. They can lie all they want, this will backfire big time...


No, because the "alqaeda" is the perfect boogeyman.  They can be everywhere, they are everwhere....they are the modern day ninja.  There are alqaeda under your bed right now!!!!!   They'll never prove there weren't alqaeda on the boat.

----------


## Imaginos

Don't get angry guys. 
I am pretty sure some of posters here are just nice regular people who have to worry about paying bills and putting foods on the table.
And I think that's why they are working as *paid infiltrators.*
some of them probably do not even believe in the bull$#@! they are posting but still have to do that because they are getting paid by ADL.
Let's give them some break.

----------


## DAFTEK

> Don't get angry guys. 
> I am pretty sure some of posters here are just nice regular people who have to worry about paying bills and putting foods on the table.
> And I think that's why they are working as *paid infiltrators.*
> some of them probably do not even believe in the bull$#@! they are posting but still have to do that because they are getting paid by ADL.
> Let's give them some break.


hahaha,

----------


## angelatc

I'll tell you what - the Jewish machine has absolutely mastered the art of this internet stuff. Somebody posted some of these links and videos on our local MeetUp email list, and a new poster immediately popped up to present Israel's side as what really happened, and and of course, to call us anti-Semitic.

----------


## fj45lvr

> Who said they were peaceful? Since when are Israeli soldiers peaceful? How do you know they were peaceful? What do you think, that the soldiers dropped in to try the hummus and tabouli?


exactly.

they were there to use FORCE to stop these ships.  They assume that they are the MASTERS or OVERLORDS...and the boats are their inferiors and underlings.


Israel is insane and should not have nuclear weapons that is for certain.   The regime in power there and many of the populous are dangerous to the whole region and the world.


Now let's see humanitarian missions every monday!!!!    They won't have any problem finding volunteers.   Fighting tyrants is invigorating especially as "david" vs. Goliath.

----------


## Imaginos

> I'll tell you what - the Jewish machine has absolutely mastered the art of this internet stuff. Somebody posted some of these links and videos on our local MeetUp email list, and a new poster immediately popped up to present Israel's side as what really happened, and and of course, to call us anti-Semitic.


Very true.
I don't hate them (paid infiltrators) on personal level since they are usually just trying to pay the bills and putting foods on the table.
However you should be always extra careful on posting identifiable information online.
And suspicion of anti-Semitism is just a tip of iceberg.
For an example, even if you love Israel to death, if you are pro-gun, pro-constitution, anti-tax, then you will be on their black list.

----------


## specsaregood

> I'll tell you what - the Jewish machine has absolutely mastered the art of this internet stuff. Somebody posted some of these links and videos on our local MeetUp email list, and a new poster immediately popped up to present Israel's side as what really happened, and and of course, to call us anti-Semitic.


Did you ask them if they wanted to actually "meetup" and discuss it in person?   Might be tough to do from an israeli bunker thousands of miles away.

----------


## angelatc

> Did you ask them if they wanted to actually "meetup" and discuss it in person?   Might be tough to do from an israeli bunker thousands of miles away.


No, I don't need Mossad dropping from helicopters onto my roof. But thanks for the thought!

----------


## Srg1

> I'll tell you what - the Jewish machine has absolutely mastered the art of this internet stuff. Somebody posted some of these links and videos on our local MeetUp email list, and a new poster immediately popped up to present Israel's side as what really happened, and and of course, to call us anti-Semitic.


I know groups like 

Hasbara  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara_Fellowships

Jewish Internet Defense Force (JIDF) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIDF

Internet Haganah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Haganah


There is so many of them.

----------


## fj45lvr

> For an example, even if you love Israel to death, if you are pro-gun, pro-constitution, anti-tax, then you will be on their black list.



So what??    ooooo we're sooooo scared.   A "black" list.  We won't be able to take a "holy land" tour?  ah shucks.  We'll be on an Israeli "no-fly" list??  golly darn.


Hopefully their black list gets so big they have to burn a bunch of state time and resources managing it...LOL

----------


## angelatc

> Faux News is also reporting that the ship had al-Qaeda terrorists on board! Yet this ship had activists from many nations and the boat was checked by Turkey before it left port. They can lie all they want, this will backfire big time...


Well, they've had time to inspect the ships, so no doubt they'll plant a bunch of munitions on them and then say "Look! We told you they were terrorists!!!"  

Just when I think I can be a happy Republican again....sigh.

----------


## virgil47

The anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet Ron Paul would be so proud of all of you racists and Hammas lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.

----------


## Vessol

> The anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet Ron Paul would be so proud of all of you racists and Hammas lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.


Sigh, this boring game of ad hominem grows tiring.

----------


## Srg1

> the anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet ron paul would be so proud of all of you racists and hammas lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.



burp!!!!

----------


## squarepusher

> The anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet Ron Paul would be so proud of all of you racists and Hammas lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.


lmao

----------


## speciallyblend

> The anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet Ron Paul would be so proud of all of you racists and Hammas lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.


wow virgil i guess your an anti-semite, because i am sure not one!!  wake the f up! are you insane or something??

because we do not want to suck your D*&K we are anti-semites, get a f'in clue and a brain!!

your the one spewing hatred. i am asking why they boarded a ship illegally in international waters!!  i am starting to think virgil47 might be hannity

----------


## puppetmaster

> The anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet Ron Paul would be so proud of all of you racists and *Hummas* lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.



I really am not a Hummas lover.....

----------


## puppetmaster

> wow virgil i guess your an anti-semite, because i am sure not one!!  wake the f up! are you insane or something??
> 
> because we do not want to suck your D*&K we are anti-semites, get a f'in clue and a brain!!
> 
> your the one spewing hatred. *i am asking why they boarded a ship illegally in international waters!! * i am starting to think virgil47 might be hannity


this

----------


## angelatc

> I really am not a Hummas lover.....


Did he mean hummus or hummers?

----------


## DAFTEK

> The anti-semites are sure out in force tonight. I'll just bet Ron Paul would be so proud of all of you racists and Hammas lovers spewing your hatred for all the world to see. You people make me sick.


$#@! Off!

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Very true.
> I don't hate them (paid infiltrators) on personal level since they are usually just trying to pay the bills and putting foods on the table.
> However you should be always extra careful on posting identifiable information online.
> And suspicion of anti-Semitism is just a tip of iceberg.
> For an example, even if you love Israel to death, if you are pro-gun, pro-constitution, anti-tax, then you will be on their black list.


This has to be the biggest waste of funds ever.  Anyone who has ever seen an internet discussion knows people argue round and round and no one ever changes their mind.

Also interesting that Israel would need to pay people given that support for Israel in the US is at an all time high.  Given so many Israel supporters you'd think some of them would post on the Internet for free but apparently not.

Pretty cush job though... if you know where to apply I'm in.

----------


## puppetmaster

> $#@! Off!


Please don't dance around how you  we feel!

----------


## down-under

Boarding a ship trying to circumvent a blockade when charging towards the blockaded area is permissible under international law if the country enforcing that blockade makes repeated warnings:

international humanitarian law, the San Remo memorandum states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade.


http://jiw.blogspot.com/

----------


## virgil47

> Boarding a ship trying to circumvent a blockade when charging towards the blockaded area is permissible under international law if the country enforcing that blockade makes repeated warnings:
> 
> international humanitarian law, the San Remo memorandum states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade.
> 
> 
> http://jiw.blogspot.com/


Thank you.

----------


## angelatc

> Thank you.


Read the rest of the freaking law. Humanitarian ships are specifically exempted.

You're welcome.

----------


## DAFTEK

> Read the rest of the freaking law. Humanitarian ships are specifically exempted.
> 
> You're welcome.


Thank You!!!!!!!!

----------


## virgil47

> Read the rest of the freaking law. Humanitarian ships are specifically exempted.
> 
> You're welcome.


Sorry they can still be boarded to inspect for weapons and you're welcome.

----------


## Srg1

> Sorry they can still be boarded to inspect for weapons and you're welcome.


Can israeli boats be boarded for inspection by the palestinians?

----------


## angelatc

> Sorry they can still be boarded to inspect for weapons and you're welcome.


What's your source on that?

----------


## DAFTEK

> Can israeli boats be boarded for inspection by the palestinians?


hehehe, nice...

----------


## angelatc

> Thank You!!!!!!!!


And of course, the law assumes a legal blockade. And this isn't one.

----------


## DAFTEK

Arabs demand probe of Israeli raid
U.N. Security Council holds an emergency meeting 

Louis Lanzano / AP

Palestinian Ambassador to the United Nations Riyad Monsour walks out of the Security Council meeting when Israeli Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations Daniel Carmon begins to speak on Monday.

UNITED NATIONS - The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting Monday on Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip, with the Palestinians and Arab nations demanding condemnation and an independent investigation. 

The Palestinians and Arabs, backed by a number of council members including Turkey, also called for Israel to lift the blockade on Gaza, immediately release the ships and humanitarian activists, and allow them to deliver their goods. 

Assistant Secretary-General Oscar Fernandez-Taranco said in his briefing to the U.N.'s most powerful body that the early morning bloodshed on Monday would have been avoided "if repeated calls on Israel to end the counterproductive and unacceptable blockade of Gaza had been heeded," 

Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, whose country had been a longtime Muslim ally of Israel, called the raid "banditry and piracy" on the high seas and "murder conducted by a state." He urged the council to adopt a presidential statement circulated by Turkey. Many of the activists aboard the ships were apparently Turks. 

The original draft text, obtained by the Associated Press, would have the council condemn the attack by Israeli forces "in the strongest terms" as a violation of international law, express deep regret at the loss of life and call for Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to undertake "an independent international investigation ... to determine how this bloodshed took place and to ensure that those responsible be held accountable" and consider the issue of compensation. 

The draft also calls on Israel to lift the blockade of Gaza and immediately release the ships and civilians it is holding. 

Ban condemned the violence. 

"I am shocked by reports of killings," he said in a statement. "It is vital that there is a full investigation to determine exactly how this bloodshed took place." 

  Israeli forces raid Gaza-bound flotilla
May 31: After the Israeli navy boarded ships taking relief supplies to the Gaza strip, skirmishes leave 10 dead and reports of 30 wounded, prompting Israel's Prime Minister to cancel a meeting with President Obama.

After statements from the 15 council members as well as Israel and the Palestinians, the council moved into closed consultations to consider possible action. The consultations then broke into a smaller group including the U.S., Turkey and Lebanon, which holds the council presidency. 

Council members decided to take a brief dinner break nearly seven hours after their meeting began and then resume discussions on the latest draft which calls for "a prompt, independent, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards." 

Riyad Mansour, the Palestinian U.N. observer, said he expected further changes to the text. Several diplomats noted that the United States, Israel's closest ally, was waiting for instructions from Washington. 

Mansour called the attack on unarmed civilians on board foreign ships in international waters a "war crime," and he declared that "those fleets, one after the other, will be coming until the unethical blockade is put to an end and the suffering stops for our people." 

France's U.N. Ambassador Gerard Araud also called for an "independent, credible" investigation that meets international standards, and the lifting of the Gaza blockade. 

But U.S. deputy ambassador Alejandro Wolff, made no mention of an international probe, saying: "We expect a credible and transparent investigation and strongly urge the Israeli government to investigate the incident fully." 

While the Palestinians and Turks insisted that those on the ships were humanitarian and human rights activists, Israel's deputy U.N. ambassador Daniel Carmon said "this flotilla was anything but a humanitarian mission." 

Some activists have "terrorist history" and its organizers support radical Islamic networks such as Hamas, which controls Gaza and refuses to recognize Israel's existence, he said. 

Carmon defended the legality of Israel's blockade and the boarding of the ships — which refused repeated calls to send their cargo through Israel — as "a preventive measure" to counter the illegal attempt to break the blockade. 

He called the results "tragic and unfortunate." 

Wolff said the United States "is deeply disturbed by the recent violence and regrets the tragic loss of life," considers the situation in Gaza "untenable" and will continue to urge Israel to expand the scope and type of goods allowed into the territory to meet humanitarian needs.

----------


## angelatc

> Carmon defended the legality of Israel's blockade ...


 I'd love to know on what grounds. "Because we said so!" isn't usually enough.

----------


## fj45lvr

Hey virgil if you really are concerned about "anti-semitism" maybe you should send some letters to the IDF.  Seriously.

----------


## The Patriot

> 'The Patriot' is a true patriot.
> But the only problem is, he is a patriot to Israel.


And you are a patriot to the terrorist Gazan State, if you want to play that game of questioning loyalty. I will also question your sanity, you delusional anti Israeli nutjob. Seriously, piss off and go read the Protocols of Zion like the loser you are. I will stand with Israel and the western democratic world and you can stand with extremist Islamists who want to eliminate nation states and religious groups like the Terrorist Hamas Government wishes too.

----------


## The Patriot

> Don't get angry guys. 
> I am pretty sure some of posters here are just nice regular people who have to worry about paying bills and putting foods on the table.
> And I think that's why they are working as *paid infiltrators.*
> some of them probably do not even believe in the bull$#@! they are posting but still have to do that because they are getting paid by ADL.
> Let's give them some break.


YouTube - Funny Farm- coming to take me away

----------


## speciallyblend

seeing the conflict in the middle east reminds me , we basically occupy 130 plus countries. I lose count!! there really hasn't been a time where war hasn't been going on somewhere with money from both/all sides funding the wars and insanity. I pray for peace but the war pigs will keep going!! I encourage mtn folks to build greenhouses!! titt for tatt,slap for slap,punch for punch will it ever end? i think not. I think i am going to worry about growing my food!! people are starving and dying. 

hopefully it is to cold for neo-cons/extremists and i heard they can't snowboard or ski worth a dam Mtn Division
Wolverines, Colorado Mtns

YouTube - Black Sabbath - War Pigs (Live in Paris 1970)

----------


## Mach

John Taylor and Hiki, is the only place you can find videos to prove 'your' points an IDF Public Affairs/Propaganda Channel?

_The IDF Spokesperson's Unit is the Israel Defense Forces' professional body responsible for media and public relations in Israel and around the world. 

We thank you for visiting us and will continue to update this site with documentation of the IDF's activites and operations both inside Israel and abroad.

Please visit the IDF's new blog - www.idfspokesperson.com - for news and other multimedia content, as well as our Twitter account: IDFSpokesperson for regular updates.

Hometown: Jerusalem

Country: Israel_

http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk
.
.
.

----------


## speciallyblend

> John Taylor and Hiki, is the only place you can find videos to prove 'your' points an IDF Public Affairs/Propaganda Channel?
> 
> _The IDF Spokesperson's Unit is the Israel Defense Forces' professional body responsible for media and public relations in Israel and around the world. 
> 
> We thank you for visiting us and will continue to update this site with documentation of the IDF's activites and operations both inside Israel and abroad.
> 
> Please visit the IDF's new blog - www.idfspokesperson.com - for news and other multimedia content, as well as our Twitter account: IDFSpokesperson for regular updates.
> 
> Hometown: Jerusalem
> ...


hmm click link or not? hmmmm hell no can rpf delete this thread i heard bryan was mossad! delete the internet tubes!

----------


## devil21

Face it.  RPF has always had Megaphone's ear and will continue to have it.  The more powerful and influential this movement becomes the more resistance we will face.

The simple fact is that everything that Israel does reflects directly on the United States of America because of our financial and military support for Israel, as well as our UN representation of Israel.  This is the very basis of the theory of blowback.  All of the tit-for-tat arguments about this point of law or that ultimately means nothing.  It is the overall anger that our gov'ts support for Israel breeds that leads to terrorism against Americans.  This is just the latest example of actions that motivate those that want to harm us.  If we stop paying for Israel's rifles and bombs and stop making policy excuses for Israel's acton, Americans will suddenly be much safer.  Will we be completely safe?  No.  No one is ever completely safe.  Only dead people.

----------


## catdd

> Can israeli boats be boarded for inspection by the palestinians?


You kiddin, that would be terrorism.

----------


## Imaginos

> i am starting to think virgil47 might be hannity


You are overestimating him, my friend. 
Paid infiltrators (by ADL) in this thread are just working low-paid and not so glorious job.
They have to work so much harder to climb to the level of Hannity (i.e. master-propagandist).

----------


## Imaginos

> Face it.  RPF has always had Megaphone's ear and will continue to have it.  The more powerful and influential this movement becomes the more resistance *paid infiltrators* we will face.


Fixed.

----------


## catdd

The JDL is the internet watchdog wing of the ADL. A few may be JDL but some are just Holy Warriors that despise Muslims.

----------


## constituent

> And gaza is closed off  because of a naval blockade preventing ALL vessels to enter the area. Everyone knows that, and according to international law Israel acted legally in intercepting this flotilla.


which law?

go ahead, make your case...

----------


## constituent

> John Taylor, don't call me a Nazi to deny that you are a Christian Zionist simpleton who enjoys killing children for Christ. Someday, Zeus will be back and will strike down the infernal **** Jesus with lightning bolts from Mt Olympus. In the meantime, I'd rather be banned than engage in an intellectual cluster$#@! where people argue rationally to defend their impulsive, subconscious, irrational biases.
> 
> Mark my words, $#@! Christians, $#@!ing Jews, and dumb $#@!ing Muslims will destroy the human species. Perhaps rational atheist humans of all backgrounds can colonize Mars by then.


omg, you just spoke my mind for me.  a+ work flashlight.  a+

----------


## constituent

> It doesn't matter who was on the ship, it could have been Nelson Mandela that old communist himself... the fact is, no one can take a ship, and avoiding customs, enter a country, without breaching the sovereignty of that country. Israel offered to let the medicine and humanitarian supplies in, but only said that they would need to be inspected... (and yes, I know you'll think that means floridating the bottled water)...


actually, customs enforcement is a breach of the people's sovereignty.

not that i'm surprised to find that this has somehow escaped you...

----------


## pcosmar

> And gaza is closed off  because of a naval blockade preventing ALL vessels to enter the area. Everyone knows that, and according to international law Israel acted legally in intercepting this flotilla. They brought this attack on themselves, and if you look at the videos I posted then the description "peaceful" is pretty far-off.


Actually the UN considers the Blockade illegal. And the attack in International water to be illegal.



> Matt 23:23-24
> 
> 23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
> 
>  24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


But, This is a long and ongoing problem.



> But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.






> In order to take control over the vessel it's reasonable that they had to board the vessel, which they did and were attacked.


Not at all. There were several ways to stop the boats without boarding. 
This was *Tactically* stupid.

God WILL judge Israel. It will be necessary for them to suffer, before they turn back to him.
There will many sorrows coming on them for this.

----------


## constituent

> So violence against soldiers who were peaceful


omg, you're an idiot.  peaceful soldiers... lol.

----------


## Liberty Star

Could this ceremony at the boat be the reason Israel decided to attack and kill unarmed civilians on board?

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/201...0/18649207.php

----------


## DAFTEK

> omg, you're an idiot.  peaceful soldiers... lol.


I wanted to call him idiot but I refrained to a dushbag...

----------


## constituent

> I wanted to call him idiot but I refrained to a dushbag...


yea, usually insults aren't permitted here, but after reading a number of threads here lately, i'm pretty sure that they must have gotten rid of that segment of the user guidelines.  that or they've abandoned enforcing it.

either way, it's true.  the patriot is a f*n idiot.  

"peaceful soldiers" armed with paintball guns.  who comes up with this $#@!?

----------


## specsaregood

> "peaceful soldiers" armed with paintball guns.  who comes up with this $#@!?


I think it was established a couple pages back that they were not paintball guns but rather cannister guns most likely filled with peppergas balls or something similar.

----------


## Bruno

> Could this ceremony at the boat be the reason Israel decided to attack and kill unarmed civilians on board?
> 
> http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/201...0/18649207.php


or one helluva coincidence

----------


## Bruno

> I think it was established a couple pages back that they were not paintball guns but rather cannister guns most likely filled with peppergas balls or something similar.


on CNN earlier this morning they had some high ranking person from Israel saying they were paintball guns

----------


## DAFTEK

> on CNN earlier this morning they had some high ranking person from Israel saying they were paintball guns


Do you believe their report?

----------


## Imaginos

> The JDL is the internet watchdog wing of the ADL. A few may be JDL but some are just Holy Warriors that despise Muslims.


Yeap, some are just Holy Warriors who truly believe in the cause of figthing and dying for Israel.
So I dedicate this particular song for all the  Holy Warriors (=Religious nutjobs) of the world. LOLOL.
As Bruce Dickinson put it nicely, "Buring records, buring books, Holy soldiers = NAZI LOOK!". 
YouTube - Iron Maiden - Holy Smoke - HD Video with closed captions

----------


## Cinderella

It wasn't a flotilla, it was the USS Liberty.

----------


## Bruno

> Do you believe their report?


not really, I was just stating what their claim was

----------


## specsaregood

> on CNN earlier this morning they had some high ranking person from Israel saying they were paintball guns


Can you point another situation, anywhere, where police have come armed with paintball guns?  I didn't see any paint spatters.   rubber bullets I could believe.  pepper gas balls I could believe.  paintball?  the stuff that kids run around shooting each other with?  That I can't believe.

----------


## Bruno

> Can you point another situation, anywhere, where police have come armed with paintball guns?  I didn't see any paint spatters.   rubber bullets I could believe.  pepper gas balls I could believe.  paintball?  the stuff that kids run around shooting each other with?  That I can't believe.


see #434

----------


## SooperDave

Israel will go to these lengths to "protect" their international borders and the CNN/ MSNBC chorus defends them to no end...

We ask for our borders to be secured from drugs, disease, convicted felons, potential terrorists, and freeloaders and CNN/ MSNBC attackes us to no end...

How can any free-thinking individual with an IQ above 80 not see the hypocrisy?

----------


## Imaginos

YouTube - 'Israel is a Lunatic State' - Finkelstein on Gaza Flotilla Attack

----------


## Todd

> Boarding a ship trying to circumvent a blockade when charging towards the blockaded area is permissible under international law if the country enforcing that blockade makes repeated warnings:
> 
> international humanitarian law, the San Remo memorandum states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade.
> 
> 
> http://jiw.blogspot.com/


LOL! at those that pull out "international law" as justification for this or that.  In case you haven't been around, International law is defined by whatever the world power's who have the ability to wield the enforcment mechanism say it is.

----------


## rancher89

> This was a common phrase in last nights "tweets". And it seems to have been proven true.
> 
> This could have had other outcomes, had any intelligent thought been given by Israeli commanders.
> 
> 1. They could have allowed the ships to land, and then searched the cargo.
> 2. Or they could have just physically blocked the ships without ever firing a shot. They had several warships that could just get in the way. With no harm to anyone.
> 
> This was nothing but a deliberate show of force and deliberate violence.


This is exactly the stance I've taken in several conversations since yesterday.  I have way to many pro-Israel friends...

----------


## tjeffersonsghost

> Israel will go to these lengths to "protect" their international borders and the CNN/ MSNBC chorus defends them to no end...
> 
> We ask for our borders to be secured from drugs, disease, convicted felons, potential terrorists, and freeloaders and CNN/ MSNBC attackes us to no end...
> 
> How can any free-thinking individual with an IQ above 80 not see the hypocrisy?


You left out Fox News who is the main defender of Israel.

----------


## Imaginos

Israel has history of killing humanitarians and peace activists if they are trying to help Palestinians.
Here is another story that never got the full coverage it deserves.
Peace loving young American humanitarian got killed by Israeli bulldozer!
Not as catch as 'American Idol update!' or 'Who slept with who!' for the sheeple, that's for sure.

YouTube - Israeli bulldozer driver murders American peace activist

----------


## The Patriot

Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.

----------


## LibertyWorker

> Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.



Israel is a theocracy disguising itself as a democracy and is engaged in its own brand of holy war/genocide.

Israel's proof you become what you hate.


if those soldiers..... and they were soldiers *"trained killers"* descended on my boat at four o'clock in the morning I would Have shot everyone of them and thrown of them overboard.

and after Israel murders 20 civilians in international water the best they can come up with is that Israel is the victim. and anybody who questions Israel is in anti-Semite and a terrorist.

Israel deserves what it's getting and what its going to get after this attack.

----------


## silentshout

> Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.


Really? Firing on a ship in the middle of the night and then landing on it in international waters is lawful? Lmao.

----------


## angelatc

> Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.


Bull$#@!. Their blockade isn't recognized as legal by anybody except themselves.  They had absolutely no reasonable suspicion that anything except humanitarian aid was on those ships.

They're thugs, running a concentration camp.

Video shows they were firing on that ship while it was flying a white flag.  That's illegal.

----------


## amy31416

> Israel has history of killing humanitarians and peace activists if they are trying to help Palestinians.
> Here is another story that never got the full coverage it deserves.
> Peace loving young American humanitarian got killed by Israeli bulldozer!
> Not as catch as 'American Idol update!' or 'Who slept with who!' for the sheeple, that's for sure.
> 
> YouTube - Israeli bulldozer driver murders American peace activist


They hit another American student protesting in the West Bank. She's alive, but lost an eye. They did the same thing to another American protesting in the WB, Tom Hundall, I believe he's still in a vegetative state.

http://gothamist.com/2010/06/01/coop...s_eye_in_w.php

----------


## DAFTEK

> Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.


You back again? wtf are you smoking?

----------


## constituent

> You back again? wtf are you smoking?

----------


## pcosmar

> Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.


So were the Camps in Nazi Germany.


However they have been condemned by the UN and by human rights organizations world wide.
The Siege of Gaza is neither right , just , or "legal".

but you can justify anything in your own mind.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Israel violated no international law. What they did was completely lawful.


YEAH... 

RIGHT... 

Don't worry the Sociopaths have a solution: 
*ISRAEL: 'Next  time we'll use more force'*


Some good news:

*Egypt lifts its side of Gaza blockade for aid... Israel Screws themselves!
*
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-blockade-aid/
*Thousands of Gazans rush to opened border* 


Egyptian protestors shout anti-Israeli slogans outside  the Al Fateh mosque in Cairo on Monday, May 31, 2010, 
during a protest  against Israel's naval commando raid on a flotilla of ships carrying aid  and hundreds of pro-Palestinian
activists to the Gaza Strip. (AP  Photo/Mohammed Zaid)By ASSOCIATED PRESS

*Updated:*  9:46 a.m. on Tuesday, June 1, 2010

CAIRO  (AP) -- An Egyptian official said Tuesday that the government  temporarily is lifting its blockade of the Gaza Strip to allow aid into  the area a day after Israel raided an international flotilla carrying  supplies to the Palestinian territory and killed nine activists.

Several  thousand Gazans have made a furious rush to the Egyptian border, hoping  to take advantage of a rare chance to escape the blockaded territory.
Cars  with suitcases piled on their roofs have streamed to the border, while  many others have lugged overstaffed bags on foot.
Dozens of Hamas  police with automatic weapons patrolled the area to maintain order.

The  governor of northern Sinai, Murad Muwafi, said Egyptian President Hosni  Mubarak ordered the opening of the border crossing to Gaza in the town  of Rafah for several days.
Mr. Muwafi said the opening of the  crossing, which Egypt sealed after Gaza was taken over by Hamas  militants in 2007, is an effort to "alleviate the suffering of our  Palestinian brothers after the Israeli attack" on the flotilla.
_Associated  Press writer Rizek Abdel Jawad contributed to this report from Rafah,  Gaza Strip._
© Copyright 2010 The Associated  Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published,  broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission. Click here for reprint permission.

----------


## The Patriot

> You back again? wtf are you smoking?


I don't smoke, but I would like to know what you are smoking. You guys talk about this violating international law, yet none of you guys can cite any violations.

----------


## pcosmar

> I don't smoke, but I would like to know what you are smoking. You guys talk about this violating international law, yet none of you guys can cite any violations.


Ever heard of something called the Geneva Convention?
Look up collective punishment.

It is illegal.

----------


## The Patriot

> So were the Camps in Nazi Germany.
> 
> 
> However they have been condemned by the UN and by human rights organizations world wide.
> The Siege of Gaza is neither right , just , or "legal".
> 
> but you can justify anything in your own mind.


You mean the blockade of Gaza, yes, it is legal, as pursuant to the Gaza-Jericho Agreement of 1994 signed by both the Israelis and Palestinians which gives the Israelis the right to patrol the seas up too 20 nautical miles beyond Gaza's shores.

----------


## The Patriot

> So were the Camps in Nazi Germany.


No they weren't, that is why there were war crimes trials.

----------


## pcosmar

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17616

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=11653



> The targeting of civilians violates the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the rockets fired from Gaza into Israel cannot distinguish between civilians and military targets, they are illegal. But Israel s air and ground attack in Gaza violates Geneva in four ways. First, it constitutes collective punishment of the entire population in Gaza for the acts of a few militants. Second, it targets civilians, as evidenced by the large numbers of civilian casualties. Third, it is a disproportionate response to the rockets fired into Israel . Fourth, an occupying power has an obligation to ensure food and medical supplies to the occupied population; Israel s blockade has created a humanitarian crisis in Gaza .





> The war on Gaza also violates U.S. law. The Human Rights and Security Assistance Act mandates that the United States cease all military aid to Israel , which has engaged in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights. The Arms Export Control Act prohibits U.S. weapons from being used for any purpose other than inside the borders of a country for self-defense. Targeting schools, police stations and television broadcast centers is not self-defense.

----------


## wgadget

> You mean the blockade of Gaza, yes, it is legal, as pursuant to the Gaza-Jericho Agreement of 1994 signed by both the Israelis and Palestinians which gives the Israelis the right to patrol the seas up too 20 nautical miles beyond Gaza's shores.


I believe the raid occurred 40 miles from shore.

----------


## angelatc

> You mean the blockade of Gaza, yes, it is legal, as pursuant to the Gaza-Jericho Agreement of 1994 signed by both the Israelis and Palestinians which gives the Israelis the right to patrol the seas up too 20 nautical miles beyond Gaza's shores.


There's a difference between patrolling and blockading.

How about the fact that Israel fired on a ship that was flying a white flag? Want to tell me why that's not illegal if Israel does it?

----------


## Electric Church

Cynthia McKinney’s CBC interview with Mark Kelley.... amazing... they won't be having her back any time soon:

Starts at the 12:50 mark

http://www.cbc.ca/connect/video.html

They just removed a subjection video as I was posting this where it was just Cynthia Mickinney and you didn't have to scroll through the whole show to the 12:50 mark.... this is something CBC does not want its audience to see.

----------


## pcosmar

> gives the Israelis the right to patrol the seas up too 20 nautical miles beyond Gaza's shores.


The attack happened far outside the 20 mile limit.

Justifying this obscenity is helping no one. Israel is shooting themselves in the foot.


God has judged and punished them in the past for their arrogance and disobedience.
He will again.

----------


## The Patriot

> I believe the raid occurred 40 miles from shore.


We are talking about nautical miles, different scale. and it actually occurred 75 miles from shore. However, pursuant to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, Paragraph 67 section A states Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d14...e!OpenDocument

The Turkish Activists intended to breach the blockade, they refused to stop after warnings from the Israelis, and resisted visit, search and capture with violence, thus the subsequent Israeli use of force was legal.

----------


## Freedom 4 all

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread...1963521&page=2

If you have a strong stomach, some of these comments are hysterical.  The Israel firsters just don't get it at all.

----------


## The Patriot

> The attack happened far outside the 20 mile limit.
> 
> Justifying this obscenity is helping no one. Israel is shooting themselves in the foot.
> 
> 
> God has judged and punished them in the past for their arrogance and disobedience.
> He will again.


20 nautical miles is different than 20 land miles. But 67A clearly allows military forces to visit, search, and capture vessels with the intent to breach the blockade prior to the breaching, and allows for military forces to use force against those who violently resist those measures.

----------


## angelatc

> We are talking about nautical miles, different scale. and it actually occurred 75 miles from shore. However, pursuant to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, Paragraph 67 section A states Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
> 
> (a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
> http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d14...e!OpenDocument
> 
> The Turkish Activists intended to breach the blockade, they refused to stop after warnings from the Israelis, and resisted visit, search and capture with violence, thus the subsequent Israeli use of force was legal.


Hello? Firing on a ship waving a white flag?

They had already searched 5 ships and come up with nothing. So they opened fire on the last ship?  And in the world according to Israel, that's legal?

And who decided the blockade was legal, again?

----------


## The Patriot

> Hello? Firing on a ship waving a white flag?
> 
> And who decided the blockade was legal, again?


By waving a white flag you mean violently assaulting uniformed military forces as the legally boarded a ship pursuant to international law? Have you not seen the videos?

YouTube - Demonstrators Use Violence Against Israeli Navy Soldiers Attempting to Board Ship

YouTube - "Peace activists" stabbing IDF soldier

----------


## Todd

> You mean the blockade of Gaza, yes, it is legal, as pursuant to the Gaza-Jericho Agreement of 1994 signed by both the Israelis and Palestinians which gives the Israelis the right to patrol the seas up too 20 nautical miles beyond Gaza's shores.


SEE: 

Here's a great example of someone who pulls "international law says this", when it justify's his position.

International law is whatever the world powers who can enforce say it is.

----------


## The Patriot

> SEE: 
> 
> Here's a great example of someone who pulls "international law says this", when it justify's his position.
> 
> International law is whatever the world powers who can enforce say it is.


No, it is written in pretty plain English. First you guys suggest legality violations, but now since I point out the legality of Israeli actions under international treaties, you claim it doesn't matter, and that rule of law doesn't matter. That is hypocrisy.

----------


## pcosmar

> Hello? Firing on a ship waving a white flag?
> 
> They had already searched 5 ships and come up with nothing. So they opened fire on the last ship?  And in the world according to Israel, that's legal?
> 
> And who decided the blockade was legal, again?


Yup, and it was the passenger ship. It was known and well documented as the passenger ship.
It had been broadcasting, for several hours prior to and during the attack. (live feed worldwide)

This was not a mistake. It was deliberate.
The ship could have been blocked by one or more of the many warships present. Without boarding and without violence.
The violence was deliberate. The attack was deliberate.

----------


## pcosmar

> No, it is written in pretty plain English. First you guys suggest legality violations, but now since I point out the legality of Israeli actions under international treaties, you claim it doesn't matter, and that rule of law doesn't matter. That is hypocrisy.


No,, Israels, and your opinion is not the opinion of the UN and world governments that are calling the actions* illegal.*

Israel is being condemned by even it's friends over this stupidity.

----------


## angelatc

> http://forums.hannity.com/showthread...1963521&page=2
> 
> If you have a strong stomach, some of these comments are hysterical.  The Israel firsters just don't get it at all.


Oh wow, you're right.  They are the light!

----------


## The Patriot

> No,, Israels, and your opinion is not the opinion of the UN and world governments that are calling the actions* illegal.*
> 
> Israel is being condemned by even it's friends over this stupidity.


They can have an opinion, and I am not surprised by their opinion, the UN and many world governments are leftist and anti Israel. However, their biased opinion doesn't coincide with the rule of law.

----------


## Todd

> No, it is written in pretty plain English. First you guys suggest legality violations, but now since I point out the legality of Israeli actions under international treaties, you claim it doesn't matter, and that rule of law doesn't matter. That is hypocrisy.


LOL! Who's "you guys"?  I haven't been touting the I.L. bull.  You'll have to show me where I have.

Er.....You're part of this forum too or does you little ejaculation suggest you' re here for something else?

----------


## The Patriot

> http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17616
> 
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=11653


That is nonsense, it is a known fact Hamas uses civilian shields and launches attacks from civilian centers, they are the one's in violation of the law.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-...c+evidence.htm

YouTube - Hamas - Human Shield Confession

YouTube - Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields

----------


## angelatc

> By waving a white flag you mean violently assaulting uniformed military forces as the legally boarded a ship pursuant to international law? Have you not seen the videos?
> 
> YouTube - Demonstrators Use Violence Against Israeli Navy Soldiers Attempting to Board Ship
> 
> YouTube - "Peace activists" stabbing IDF soldier


No, I mean the ship was flying a white flag - the international sign of surrender - as the Israeli skiffs were firing on the ship before they boarded. Before the video you posted was taken.

So you've managed to answer none of my assertions.  For expediency,lets take Israel out of the equation and speak in general terms.

Is it a violation of international law to fire on a ship waving a white flag?

Does a blockade need to be recognized as legitimate by the international community to be legal?

Is opening fire on a passenger ship, unprovoked, a violation of international law?

----------


## MelissaWV

> http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/3...eaves-10-dead/
> 
> The left-wing activists on board a flotilla carrying aid to the Gaza Strip tried to *lynch* the Israel Navy commandos who stormed their Turkish-flagged ship early Monday, Israel Defense Forces sources told Haaretz.
> 
> The commandos, who intercepted the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara after it ignored orders to turn back, said they encountered violent resistance from activists *armed with sticks and knives.* According to the soldiers, the activists threw one of their comrades from the upper deck to the lower after they boarded.
> 
> Activists attacked a commando with iron bars as he descended onto the ship from a helicopter, the army said. The IDF said its rules of engagement allowed troops to open fire in what it called a life-threatening situation.
> 
> The soldiers said they were* forced to open fire after the activists struck one of their comrades in the head and trampled on him*. A senior field commander ordered the soldiers then to respond with fire, a decision which the commandos said received full backing the military echelon.
> ...


I'm going to directly Pass-Go and skip over the pages and pages in between this post and now.  I've bolded the sections I'm going to talk about.

Lets go point by point, shall we?

Lynch is not the right word.  Lynch implies a concerted effort concentrated against someone, overwhelming them with force.  That could be loosely applied here, except that lynching also carries the connotation that the victim is innocent, unarmed, etc..  The Israeli Navy did not come unarmed.

In the next portion I bolded maintains that the activists were armed with sticks and knives.  Well come back to that in a moment.

The next bolded section maintains that the soldiers were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of them in the head and trampled on him.  Again, well come back to that.

Incidentally, I highlighted several more wounded, because reports are that DOZENS were wounded.  If we are to take this report at face value, though, not very many were wounded at all, despite the fact that there was such a violent skirmish.

Next:  Twenty people were waiting on deck.  Israel had quite some time to plan their course of action should the ship reach their territorial waters (Im not even going to debate that point either way; its obviously fruitless).  They had an additional red flag here, when their current course of action included soldiers arriving one or two at a time from helicopters.  If you see twenty people waiting for you on deck, and your suspicion is that theyre not going to be happy to see you, would you send them down one or two at a time with paintball guns?  The next highlight shows that minor violence was expected.  Minor violence on the part of twenty people versus one person is a recipe for disaster.  Why would anyone greenlight this?

One by one... one by one... why?

The soldiers were only equipped with paintball rifles, by the way, according to this report.  Again, this will be revisited.

The paintballs made no impression... no kidding!  Ive yet to see any paint on the ships or on the activists.  Were they not actually paintballs?  What were they firing, then, and why doesnt there seem to be evidence of their use?  Wrest away their weapons?  You mean the ineffective paintball guns were being taken from the commandos?

The next bolding shows The commandos were equipped with handguns, but wait!  Just a few sentences ago, they were only equipped with paintball rifles.  Is it that there were pistols on the helicopter, and these NEW commandos had armed themselves more heavily before coming down onto the ship?  Why have these handguns on the helicopter, since youd only be encountering peaceful protestors?  Why is this so ambiguous?  Why does it sound, instead, like the same ones that had paintball rifles also had handguns (which would explain what weapons the activists were trying to wrest away)?

Next bold:  Oops!  It does seem that they were armed with PAINTBALLS, which I will ask about again... why dont we see paint all over activists?  Why isnt there paint on the ship?  

I bolded the next part because I had previously seen a video with a circled instance of using a stun grenade, but the funny part is that the video said the stun grenade was thrown by the activists.  It seems that the soldiers only armed with paintball rifles not only had handguns, but had stun grenades available as backups.

The next bolded part shows a ratio of 1:1.  This is unsubstantiated either by video or other reports.  Interesting.

Another interesting tidbit.  The attackers nabbed a commando and took his handgun, and threw him to the lower deck (not off of the ship, as others seem to report).  Whats interesting is that this is supposedly the reason they were allowed to open fire.  Earlier in this same report, the incident was characterized as the soldiers were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of them in the head and trampled on him.  Which is it?

The next bolded section:  the rioters started to fire back at the commandos.  Rioters?  I thought only one of them had wrested a handgun from a soldier?  Earlier they were only armed with sticks and slingshots and knives... now they have guns of their own?

Whats still remarkable is that, among all of this nonsense, only a handful of soldiers were injured.  All of these ruthless beatings with metal rods, dangerous firebombs (which the activists allegedly didnt even have, of course, unless you look at the videos), getting hit with chairs, thrown off the ship (of which there isnt any real video; there is video of one soldier going from top deck to bottom, and of another going into a lifeboat), stabbed, shot... and only six injured!  Wow!  And what crack shots they are, since there are something like twenty dead protestors, and this report indicates there were only thirty on deck, and there were more injured.  They must have shot *everyone* on deck, if these numbers are true.

Or is this whole account (and, for that matter, the videos in which people are so kind as to tell us what were seeing)... a little fudged?

Lastly, to the videos.  The top one that shows the stabbing (I dont see it, but whatever floats the medias boat)... towards the end it shows the deck.  Why are there so many people crouching down facing away, as if theyve surrendered?

For the second one, you happen to have chosen my favorite.  Please note that the first caption indicates the first soldier is injured and thrown to the lower deck.  Earlier in the written account, that was given as the reason that soldiers were allowed to open fire, and the soldier falls unconscious.  He is also the only one in the written report said to have been thrown in such a way.  The metal pole being used looks more like a piece of siding, as it is flimsy and bending as the man runs with it.  I am not disputing that metal poles were used, and later found all over the place on the ship, but the caption here is suspect.  The attack using a large metal object is shown clearly on other videos as an attack using a lawn chair... it looked like one of those big white plastic ones with the wide slats.  It would still hurt, but again Im wondering why the captions are so bad.  Tens of rioters try to kidnap a soldier is also interesting, because the written account tells of a 1:1 ratio.  If this is so, then arent there also tens of soldiers somewhere against one activist?  Isnt this really bad military form?

Stun grenade thrown at soldiers.  But wait!  Up above, it says that its the SOLDIERS who have stun grenades and were throwing them...

Firebomb thrown at soldiers.  But wait!  They were only armed with slingshots and knives and metal poles and lawn chairs and knives.  Even MacGuyver would have trouble making a firebomb out of that.

My point is that there is a lot of interpretation going on, and a lot of erroneous information coming out.  The response to this will depend on what the final stories are, and where the incident is determined to have taken place.  Either way, the Israelis have lost face and Gaza is open for aid as far as Egypt is concerned.

----------


## angelatc

> That is nonsense, it is a known fact Hamas uses civilian shields and launches attacks from civilian centers, they are the one's in violation of the law.


Both sides use human shields, and both sides are in violation of the law.  

The rockets that Hamas fires launch are illegal because they can't distinguish between civilian and military targets.

Israel's retaliation was illegal in part because they refused to distinguish between civilian and military targets.

They were also found guilty of 3 more violations of the laws of war.  They are not the victims here.

----------


## The Patriot

> No, I mean the ship was flying a white flag - the international sign of surrender - as the Israeli skiffs were firing on the ship before they boarded. Before the video you posted was taken.
> 
> So you've managed to answer none of my assertions.  For expediency,lets take Israel out of the equation and speak in general terms.
> 
> Is it a violation of international law to fire on a ship waving a white flag?
> 
> Does a blockade need to be recognized as legitimate by the international community to be legal?
> 
> Is opening fire on a passenger ship, unprovoked, a violation of international law?


So they were attacking soldiers and waving flags at the same time? What are you talking about? The attacks null any white flags. It is like saying if a force of militants(either uniformed or non-uniformed), waves a white flag while attacking I cannot repel it. 

No, there does not need to be multilateral unanimous agreement among all nations before a blockade is initiated. 

Yes, opening fire on a passenger ship, unprovoked, is a violation of international law.

----------


## angelatc

> They can have an opinion, and I am not surprised by their opinion, the UN and many world governments are leftist and anti Israel. However, their biased opinion doesn't coincide with the rule of law.


LOL! The entire international community simply doesn't understand international law. Yeah, that's the ticker.

And of course, everybody is biased against poor Israel. WIth no reason, except that they're all anti-Semitic!

----------


## The Patriot

> Both sides use human shields, and both sides are in violation of the law.  
> 
> Israel's retaliation was illegal in part because they refused to distinguish between civilian and military targets.


No they don't, Israel has never used civilians as shields, that is a boldfaced lie with no evidence.

Israel broke no laws, Hamas is the one who refused to make the distinction, and they got their civilians killed. You can't use civilians as shields and than shout war crimes when they get killed after the nation who is attacked returns fire and tries to eliminate those who attacked them.

----------


## Imaginos

Come on guys.
Show some love to 'The Patriot'.
After all, he's just doing his patriotic duty *to ISRAEL.*

----------


## angelatc

> So they were attacking soldiers and waving flags at the same time? What are you talking about? The attacks null any white flags. It is like saying if a force of militants(either uniformed or non-uniformed), waves a white flag while attacking I cannot repel it.


No. I am talking about a ship that was flying a white flag. Nobody was waving anything that I know of. The passenger ship was flying a white flag to indicate surrender. So what you just said is that since the attacks null any white flag, the passengers were justified in attacking the soldiers as they descended from the helicopter.  



> No, there does not need to be multilateral unanimous agreement among all nations before a blockade is initiated.


 I didn't say anything about multilateral unanimous - I just said does it need to be recognized by any international authority to be legal?   Anybody at all?





> Yes, opening fire on a passenger ship, unprovoked, is a violation of international law.


 That's exactly what the Israeli soldiers did. They were firing on the ship before they were anywhere near enough to begin boarding it.

----------


## amy31416

> No they don't, Israel has never used civilians as shields, that is a boldfaced lie with no evidence.
> 
> Israel broke no laws, Hamas is the one who refused to make the distinction, and they got their civilians killed. You can't use civilians as shields and than shout war crimes when they get killed after the nation who is attacked returns fire and tries to eliminate those who attacked them.


Research fail:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm
http://www.btselem.org/english/human...beit_hanun.asp
YouTube - Israeli army 'used human shields in Gaza war' - 9 Feb 09
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/195865.php
http://krishna109.newsvine.com/_news...aught-on-video
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articl...387356,00.html

----------


## angelatc

> No they don't, Israel has never used civilians as shields, that is a boldfaced lie with no evidence.
> .


Here are the first 2 results from Google. 

2005: http://www.haaretz.com/news/channel-...-bank-1.159323

2009:

----------


## rancher89

^^qft

----------


## angelatc

And the UN Report concluded that Israel indeed did break laws. I'm going to go with that.

----------


## Mach

> Here are the first 2 results from Google. 
> 
> 2005: http://www.haaretz.com/news/channel-...-bank-1.159323
> 
> 2009:


I'm sure that boy jumped up on that hood and tied himself to it just as the photographer took the picture just to make Israel look bad.... once again, Israel is the real poor victim here.

----------


## The Patriot

> No. I am talking about a ship that was flying a white flag. Nobody was waving anything that I know of. The passenger ship was flying a white flag to indicate surrender. So what you just said is that since the attacks null any white flag, the passengers were justified in attacking the soldiers as they descended from the helicopter.  
>  I didn't say anything about multilateral unanimous - I just said does it need to be recognized by any international authority to be legal?   Anybody at all?
> 
> 
>  That's exactly what the Israeli soldiers did. They were firing on the ship before they were anywhere near enough to begin boarding it.


No, the initial attacks by Turkish activists null any supposed white flag of surrender they claimed to wave. They nulled any such surrender attempt by attacking the Israeli forces. And blockades during armed conflicts are legal under maritime law, and more specifically under the naval manuals of the US and UK, which recognize naval blockades as a measure which can be implemented during armed conflicts.Israeli forces only fired after they were attacked, which is legal under international law.

----------


## Vessol

Guys, stop feeding the troll.

----------


## Todd

> Israel Human shield facts 'snip'



bu bu bu but that's against international law.

----------


## The Patriot

And any human shielding crimes should be prosecuted, however, it isn't IDF policy, while human shielding is Hamas Policy and is not prosecuted by Hamas legal authorities(where as Israel prosecutes those who engage in criminal behavior).
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-1962561.html

----------


## angelatc

> No, the initial attacks by Turkish activists null any supposed white flag of surrender they claimed to wave. They nulled any such surrender attempt by attacking the Israeli forces. And blockades during armed conflicts are legal under maritime law, and more specifically under the naval manuals of the US and UK, which recognize naval blockades as a measure which can be implemented during armed conflicts.Israeli forces only fired after they were attacked, which is legal under international law.


You are wrong. Israel boats fired on the passenger ship flying a white flag before the soldiers boarded the ship. Israel fired first. That's not even in dispute.

Why did the shots from the IDF boats not nullify the white flag, but the attacks by the passengers on the ship did? 

And if what you say about the blockade is true, why does the UN continually say that Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal?  They claim that the Gaza blockade amounts to nothing more than a collective punishment of civilians, which is prohibited under the Geneva Conventions on the conduct of warfare and occupation.

Do they simply not understand international law either? Or is the entire global community anti-Semitic?

----------


## Todd

> And any human shielding crimes should be prosecuted



Who should prosecute it again?

Where is this guarantor of international liberty that inhabits this fantasy world where the just win the day?



This is a really educating thread on international relations.

----------


## angelatc

> Who should prosecute it again?
> 
> Where is this guarantor of international liberty that inhabits this fantasy world where the just win the day?
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really educating thread on international relations.


And the utter pointlessness of the UN, as well as international laws dictating war. People are going to do what they are going to do.

----------


## constituent

YouTube - Gorillaz - White Flag (HD)

----------


## Depressed Liberator

So the Israelis are allowed to come attack, but they are the only ones who are allowed to defend themselves?

----------


## Reason

Occupation_101.avi

----------


## MelissaWV

When someone seems so deliberately unable to grasp a basic argument (such as that the ships were waving white flags, and hence were not aggressors and did not need to be boarded, so that boarding, especially in international waters, might be regarded more as an act of piracy and aggression [on the part of the Israelis] than a defense of a stated blockade), I would agree: they are likely trolling.

I notice no response to me, but I guess I was too long-winded and there were too many holes in the posted story to even attempt to defend it.  Now we're on to which side is more righteous.  What does that have to do with a given individual event, I wonder?  Nothing.  You can be the nation that's nearly always in the wrong, and still be wronged by another nation.  I really wish people would look at facts rather than turning this into a debate on who's the better country.  There are, actually, very few facts, regardless of how many videos with erroneous captions are already on the internet.

----------


## The Patriot

> You are wrong. Israel boats fired on the passenger ship flying a white flag before the soldiers boarded the ship. Israel fired first. That's not even in dispute.
> 
> Why did the shots from the IDF boats not nullify the white flag, but the attacks by the passengers on the ship did? 
> 
> 
> Do they simply not understand international law either? Or is the entire global community anti-Semitic?


No, they only fired after Israeli commandos were attacked

It isn't confusing, the Turks attacked first, thus nullifying any so called white flag of surrender they waved.

Yes, much of the UN community is anti semitic, leftist, and anti nationalistic.

----------


## MelissaWV

> No, they only fired after Israeli commandos were attacked
> 
> It isn't confusing, the Turks attacked first, thus nullifying any so called white flag of surrender they waved.
> 
> Yes, much of the UN community is anti semitic, leftist, and anti nationalistic.


I believe Angela is referring to several accounts which are floating around of the Captain being shot at *first*, before any commando dropped onto the ship.  I posted one of those accounts yesterday, together with a bunch of other accounts with conflicting information.  

Even the story you posted earlier in the thread conflicts with itself.  The captions in the videos circulating the internet conflict with each other and with official statements.  Why you are so certain of events is a bit perplexing.

----------


## Old Ducker

> You are wrong. Israel boats fired on the passenger ship flying a white flag before the soldiers boarded the ship. Israel fired first. That's not even in dispute.
> 
> Why did the shots from the IDF boats not nullify the white flag, but the attacks by the passengers on the ship did? 
> 
> And if what you say about the blockade is true, why does the UN continually say that Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal?  They claim that the Gaza blockade amounts to nothing more than a collective punishment of civilians, which is prohibited under the Geneva Conventions on the conduct of warfare and occupation.
> 
> Do they simply not understand international law either? Or is the entire global community anti-Semitic?


Can you point me to evidence that Israel opened up with live fire prior to boarding the ship?  Thanks!

----------


## Cowlesy

Post #500

----------


## Cowlesy

> Can you point me to evidence that Israel opened up with live fire prior to boarding the ship?  Thanks!


gah you beat me to #500

----------


## MelissaWV

> Post #500


Good job... you just made this thread fail WORSE!  I didn't think it was POSSIBLE!

----------


## Cowlesy

> Good job... you just made this thread fail WORSE!  I didn't think it was POSSIBLE!


Whoa.  Jealous much??

----------


## MelissaWV

> Whoa.  Jealous much??


Impressed beyond all measure 

Also, when this gets to post 665, can you lock it and post #666 and proclaim this thread evidence of the arrival of the End Times?  Thankeesai

----------


## tropicangela

Passengers recount mid-sea horror

Here are excerpts of what some of the freed passengers had to say:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/20...546785656.html

----------


## angelatc

> Can you point me to evidence that Israel opened up with live fire prior to boarding the ship?  Thanks!


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...counts-gunfire

There is an eyewitness report, and here is the video: 

YouTube - IDF Boarding Gaza Aid Flotilla

----------


## tpreitzel

I can clearly understand why the nations of the world surround Israel in the latter days. Israel is like an unruly child who always brings grief to himself and everyone surrounding him. In a sense, I pity the people of Israel. Although, the people of Israel having been living large at the expense of the US, their government will be the source of much, much pain. It's simply no wonder that God has to intervene personally on their behalf to prevent absolute annihilation.

----------


## YumYum

> No, they only fired after Israeli commandos were attacked
> 
> It isn't confusing, the Turks attacked first, thus nullifying any so called white flag of surrender they waved.
> 
> Yes, much of the UN community is anti semitic, leftist, and anti nationalistic.


Are you defending the Israeli government, or the Israeli people? If you are defending their government, that would make you an Israeli Firster, because you surely don't defend your own government on this forum.

I thought you were suspicious of all governments?

----------


## angelatc

> Passengers recount mid-sea horror
> 
> Here are excerpts of what some of the freed passengers had to say:
> 
> http://english.aljazeera.net/news/20...546785656.html


Obviously all those people are anti-Semetic.

----------


## Vessol

> Obviously all those people are anti-Semetic.


Yeah especially the holocaust survivors on board, what self-hating jews.

----------


## The Patriot

They even offered the boat the opportunity to dock at an Israeli port from where they could deliver the humanitarian aid to Gaza. But clearly, helping the Gazans was not the goal of the exercise, it was to undermine and break the blockade during a state of war. 

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4249.htm

Here is the video:
YouTube - Israeli Navy Addresses a Ship in the Flotilla and Offers it to Dock in the Ashdod Port

----------


## YumYum

> They even offered the boat the opportunity to dock at an Israeli port from where they could deliver the humanitarian aid to Gaza. But clearly, helping the Gazans was not the goal of the exercise, it was to undermine and break the blockade during a state of war. 
> 
> http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4249.htm
> 
> Here is the video:
> YouTube - Israeli Navy Addresses a Ship in the Flotilla and Offers it to Dock in the Ashdod Port


Why are you on this forum defending the Israeli government when you won't defend your own government?

----------


## Vessol

> They even offered the boat the opportunity to dock at an Israeli port from where they could deliver the humanitarian aid to Gaza. But clearly, helping the Gazans was not the goal of the exercise, it was to undermine and break the blockade during a state of war. 
> 
> http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4249.htm
> 
> Here is the video:
> YouTube - Israeli Navy Addresses a Ship in the Flotilla and Offers it to Dock in the Ashdod Port


Odd that they videotape them giving a warning in English when in every other video I've seen, the warnings are in various languages, but none in English.

----------


## The Patriot

> Why are you on this forum defending the Israeli government when you won't defend your own government?


How does showing this video make me disloyal to America? I am showing that Israel was more than willing to receive and deliver the aid through and Israeli port, and that this ship insisted on violating the rule of law and decided to try and run a blockade. 

If America was at war with Mexico, and had issued a blockade, and this incident had occurred, I would support the American Government. What is it you want me to defend about my American Government?

----------


## Vessol

How about if America was holding a bunch of non-citizens of any ethnicity in what amounts to a concentration camp, barely letting any supplies in. Is that moral? Is it immoral for a group of volunteers to try to break through and bring supplies?

----------


## tropicangela

> How does showing this video make me disloyal to America? I am showing that Israel was more than willing to receive and deliver the aid through and Israeli port, and that this ship insisted on violating the rule of law and decided to try and run a blockade. 
> 
> If America was at war with Mexico, and had issued a blockade, and this incident had occurred, I would support the American Government. What is it you want me to defend about my American Government?


Last year, Cynthia McKinney's humanitarian boat was rammed by Israeli Navy when she tried to take medical supplies and crayons to Gaza.  Then she was detained for about a week.  Israel can say they are willing to receive and deliver the aid but their actions tell a different story.

----------


## YumYum

> How does showing this video make me disloyal to America? I am showing that Israel was more than willing to receive and deliver the aid through and Israeli port, and that this ship insisted on violating the rule of law and decided to try and run a blockade. 
> 
> If America was at war with Mexico, and had issued a blockade, and this incident had occurred, I would support the American Government. What is it you want me to defend about my American Government?


It isn't just this incident where you defend the Israeli government; you defend them unconditionally on every issue. If you love government so much, why don't you start by defending your own, namely, the United States government?

----------


## The Patriot

> Last year, Cynthia McKinney's humanitarian boat was rammed by Israeli Navy when she tried to take medical supplies and crayons to Gaza.  Then she was detained for about a week.  Israel can say they are willing to receive and deliver the aid but their actions tell a different story.


Cynthiia McKinney should scurry on back to the great continent of Africa where she belongs with her black supremacist friends. I have no sympathy for anti white, anti jewish socialists who try to run blockades and violate the law. 
YouTube - Hannity & Colmes - The New Black Panthers (Hashim Nzinga)

----------


## tjeffersonsghost

The Patriot I have a question.  If Palestine and Israel are at war (which is why the blockade is up) and Turkey wants to send aid and Israel intercepts the aid and kills people on the boat does Turkey not have a right to be pissed off?  Doesn't Turkey have the right to feel this was an act of war against them.

Many wars have been started from one side firing on a neutral side in a war which is exactly what happened here.

Do the Palestinians have a right to be mad for being walled in by both Israel AND Egypt and cut off from food and supplies?  I mean Palestine is a modern day Warsaw Ghetto and whenever you have a rise up in the ghetto you have the Israelis using harsh techniques to crush it similar to the Nazis doing it to the Jews.  God forbid the Palestinians from fighting back.  Also I think its important to never forget who created Hamas in the first place....

----------


## YumYum

> The Patriot I have a question.  If Palestine and Israel are at war (which is why the blockade is up) and Turkey wants to send aid and Israel intercepts the aid and kills people on the boat does Turkey not have a right to be pissed off?  Doesn't Turkey have the right to feel this was an act of war against them.
> 
> Many wars have been started from one side firing on a neutral side in a war which is exactly what happened here.
> 
> Do the Palestinians have a right to be mad for being walled in by both Israel AND Egypt and cut off from food and supplies?  I mean Palestine is a modern day Warsaw Ghetto and whenever you have a rise up in the ghetto you have the Israelis using harsh techniques to crush it similar to the Nazis doing it to the Jews.  God forbid the Palestinians from fighting back.  Also I think its important to never forget who created Hamas in the first place....


Excellent point! Didn't the Germans have a blockade during WWI and Wilson violated it by sending weaponry to the British?

----------


## tropicangela

> Cynthiia McKinney should scurry on back to the great continent of Africa where she belongs with her black supremacist friends. I have no sympathy for anti white, anti jewish socialists who try to run blockades and violate the law. 
> YouTube - Hannity & Colmes - The New Black Panthers (Hashim Nzinga)


Oh, are Palestinians in Gaza black?  That must be why she tried to take them aid.

----------


## TheFlashlight.org

> Cynthiia McKinney should scurry on back to the great continent of Africa where she belongs with her black supremacist friends. I have no sympathy for anti white, anti jewish socialists who try to run blockades and violate the law. 
> YouTube - Hannity & Colmes - The New Black Panthers (Hashim Nzinga)


Hannity and Colmes with Hebrew subtitles? Sorry, long thread, you guys already knew this guy was just a Zionist-Nazi functionary right? Don't propaganda trolls get banned? It's like listening to Goebbels justify the Holocaust, listening to these Israelis justify their detention ghetto camps like we're that stupid.

----------


## Immortal Technique

OMG Israel just lost Michael Savage
He's on air siding with the Palestinians saying the Palestinians on the flotilla showed amazing restraint, i am not making this up i'm quite stunned to tell you the truth, i will Youtube it in a lil bit
The world is officially Topsy Turvy

----------


## TheFlashlight.org

> OMG Israel just lost Michael Savage
> He's on air siding with the Palestinians saying the Palestinians on the flotilla showed amazing restraint, i am not making this up i'm quite stunned to tell you the truth, i will Youtube it in a lil bit
> The world is officially Topsy Turvy


If more Americans of Jewish descent started nudging the Nazi-Theocratic state of Israel towards a more sensible regime, all of mankind would be better off, assuming you don't want to see every living plant and animal on the planet incinerated by nuclear blasts, all in the name of Yahweh, or Jesus, or the new messiah, or whatever crazy crap is going on in these people's minds. It's like David Koresh and Jim Jones with nukes.

----------


## TheFlashlight.org

> OMG Israel just lost Michael Savage
> He's on air siding with the Palestinians saying the Palestinians on the flotilla showed amazing restraint, i am not making this up i'm quite stunned to tell you the truth, i will Youtube it in a lil bit
> The world is officially Topsy Turvy


Please Youtube, wanna see that.

----------


## speciallyblend

> If more Americans of Jewish descent started nudging the Nazi-Theocratic state of Israel towards a more sensible regime, all of mankind would be better off, assuming you don't want to see every living plant and animal on the planet incinerated by nuclear blasts, all in the name of Yahweh, or Jesus, or the new messiah, or whatever crazy crap is going on in these people's minds. It's like David Koresh and Jim Jones with nukes.



israel= david koresh and jim jones with nukes about sums up the situation in the middle east!! that was funny stuff flashlight!!!!  it also reminds me of these brainwashed folks!!

YouTube - Kids being INDOCTRINATED by church people "Pray for Bush"(This is why I $#@!ing hate Religion)

----------


## wgadget

> OMG Israel just lost Michael Savage
> He's on air siding with the Palestinians saying the Palestinians on the flotilla showed amazing restraint, i am not making this up i'm quite stunned to tell you the truth, i will Youtube it in a lil bit
> The world is officially Topsy Turvy


I LOVE Michael Savage!

----------


## Imaginos

LINK: Turkish PM Erdoğan says Israel 'must be punished'.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Tuesday reiterated his country's condemnation of the Israeli raid on the humanitarian aid flotilla, calling the incident a "bloody massacre."

"They have to be punished for this action," Erdoğan told a meeting of his ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP.

----------


## devil21

It's starting to fall apart over there, maybe faster than anyone realizes.

Just today:

Israeli airstrike on Gaza kills 3 after Gazans launch rockets
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Arti...medium=twitter

then...

Israeli planes over Lebanon fired upon
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6502AB.htm

----------


## qh4dotcom

> It's starting to fall apart over there, maybe faster than anyone realizes.
> 
> Just today:
> 
> Israeli airstrike on Gaza kills 3 after Gazans launch rockets
> http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Arti...medium=twitter
> 
> then...
> 
> ...


Does the faster it fall apart over there, the lower Obama's approval ratings will go?

----------


## TheFlashlight.org

> israel= david koresh and jim jones with nukes about sums up the situation in the middle east!! that was funny stuff flashlight!!!!  it also reminds me of these brainwashed folks!!
> 
> YouTube - Kids being INDOCTRINATED by church people "Pray for Bush"(This is why I $#@!ing hate Religion)


Macka laka sheeka mu kaka! That was hilarious!

----------


## Number19

This whole incident was a planned strategy to thwart the impending peace talks and could have easily been avoided by allowing the supplies to be imported into Gaza by overland routes after inspection. This was never the intent and instead, a deliberate attempt to run the navel blockade was a made, all the time knowing the outcome would be turned against Israel.

----------


## TheFlashlight.org

> This whole incident was a planned strategy to thwart the impending peace talks and could have easily been avoided by allowing the supplies to be imported into Gaza by overland routes after inspection. This was never the intent and instead, a deliberate attempt to run the navel blockade was a made, all the time knowing the outcome would be turned against Israel.


You know that these supplies will never ever ever ever get to a poor Palestinian kid. They'll just be combed through by some greasy insider who'll sell them on the black market. Next time, they need to bring a flotilla of human manure for the Israelis to seize.

----------


## fj45lvr

> OMG Israel just lost Michael Savage
> He's on air siding with the Palestinians saying the Palestinians on the flotilla showed amazing restraint, i am not making this up i'm quite stunned to tell you the truth, i will Youtube it in a lil bit
> The world is officially Topsy Turvy


WOW...

I have a seriously hard time believing that.   Savage is Israeli firster (hard core).


Maybe Southern Avenger has broken into his psyche or something.



Must be hard for people to support injustice all the time....they have to let down once and awhile.

----------


## fj45lvr

> This whole incident was a planned strategy to thwart the impending peace talks and could have easily been avoided by allowing the supplies to be imported into Gaza by overland routes after inspection. This was never the intent and instead, a deliberate attempt to run the navel blockade was a made, all the time knowing the outcome would be turned against Israel.





And it worked!!!!    FUNNY as hell to see the zionist tyrants having to eat what they dish out!!


Israel is not a "god" to be bowed down to.   Liberty over tyranny.

----------


## Bruno

> Excellent point! Didn't the Germans have a blockade during WWI and Wilson violated it by sending weaponry to the British?


Google the Lusitania 

Recently the wreck was found and it was confirmed that munitions were on board, just as the Germans had claimed, and explaining the incredible explosions that sank it. 

The U.S. State Dept intervened when the Germans paid for 50 newspaper ads warning citizens not to take passage on board the ship because it was being used to transport war materials.  Reportedly the only newspaper that ran the ad was the Des Moines Register.  



From wikipedia

British propaganda
It was in the interests of the British to keep US passions inflamed, and a fabricated story was circulated that in some regions of Germany, schoolchildren were given a holiday to celebrate the sinking of the Lusitania. This story was so effective that James W. Gerard, the US ambassador to Germany, recounted it in his memoir of his time in Germany, Face to Face with Kaiserism (1918), though without substantiating its validity.[49]"

----------

