# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Baretta 92FS (M9) vs. Glock 19

## FreedomFighter8008

I'm looking at buying my first hand gun.  I've narrowed my choices down to either a Baretta 92FS (M9) or a Glock 19.  For those of you who've shot either of these, what was your opinion?

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## asimplegirl

We don't like Baretta's.  You have to have a hand like a gorilla, because trigger reach is like 4 ft, for starters.

They use them in military and they are not all that hot...they don't even like them much.

They aren't as durable or reliable as a Glock in the long run.  Parts are more expensive.  It's alot heavier than the Glock, and it's alot bigger.

They are just two totally separate guns.  If you just want to plink at the range, either one will work.  Personally, there is no way we would pay more for the Berretta over the 19.. you pay mostly for the name- they are nice, but not that nice.

I would use it just to go to the range or to just plink.

I would go with the G19.

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## ihsv

Springfield Armory XD

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## Pericles

> They use them in military and they are not all that hot...they don't even like them much.


I was in 1AD  in Germany when they took away our .45 cal 1911A1s and issued the M9. It was not a good experience. They hyped it big with the standard NATO round and the durability testing and it was oh so reliable.

I have small hands ant the grip did not work for me - accuracy OK, but my 9mm pistols are Walthers and I bought a 1911A1 GI model as my preferred pistol.

When I was at Ft. Hood, our unit lost a 1911A1 - it was found in a tank trail just over one year later, cleaned and inspected, then returned to service. Try that with either a Beretta or a Glock.

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## asimplegirl

It has been done with a Glock...You must not be aware of what you can put a Glock through..they are famous for passing the torture test.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php...ask=view&id=90



This entire process took place over 45 minutes. The pistol was never field stripped, and the only cleaning was dunking in a bucket of dirty water.
Sand
Boring, but gotta do it. Used play sand, good consistency.

Need a little pressure so 10lb sledge was used to slightly pack it in place.

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide

shot after buried, loaded, slide open

Potting soil, a good mix various dirt and junk.

slide open

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide

shot after buried, loaded, slide open


Baby Powder, fine enough to get into everything.

slide open

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide

shot after buried, loaded, slide open



Mud (potting soil and water)
Nice sticky mess

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## asimplegirl

remember this is from one test to another, it now has sand, dirt, and powder in it.



shot after buried, loaded, closed slide - started to get messy.

shot after buried, loaded, slide open

Rinse time

Paste – Baby powder and water. Stupid idea.


shot after paste, didn’t even try it with the slide open.

Needs a rinse and mag through to help dry. The mag was empty before the water quit pouring out!


Lets dump everything into one bucket and mix it together.

That’s about the limit

The mag is full of crud, the trigger must be pulling at 20lbs, time to rinse again and see field strip.
I wonder if the stone wedged in the transfer bar had anything to do with the heavy trigger?

For overnight, it will soak outside in a the rinse water mixed with a dose of rock salt.

good night

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## asimplegirl

I used 1 target for the test, paced 35’ feet away. Not bad considering half the time I couldn’t see the sights. The increased weight of the trigger must have had me pulling to the right.
Need to take more than 1 magazine next time. There were a few times the mag was so full of stuff I only only fit 10 or 11 rounds. I think some of the FTF were partially the mag.

Not sure whats next. The large amount of rock salt kept it from freezing out side last night. What would be the best condition for corrosion? Should I leave it outside or bring it in and let it soak? Hos long? The "camera man" from the other pics is convinced the salt will turn the barrel into a rusted mess. We'll see how good the tennifer is.

As a side note - a friend who is a pilot has agreed to take me up this spring and let me throw it out the window of his plane! We'll decide on the height later, but the slowest he said he can go is 65mph.

I'm thinking my next plan will be to start breaking parts myself.
Will if function if the spring cups are shattered?
How much if the striker spring can be cut and still work.
Will it run without an ejector?
I'm still stoked about shooting it without the trigger spring!

I dont care so much about it working, I want to find what makes it stop and how to keep going.


Took the glock out of the salt water, and ran 500rds through it. Sorry, would have done 1K, but this was PAINFUL. No cleaning or oil, since the last tests.

I learned I have an aimed rate of fire of 100RPM :-)
Attempted to load several mags at once and blast through one at a time. After the 3rd mag my hand was almost numb, and I had to really hor at holding on. Need to shoot 2 mags rest a couple minutes and shoot 2 more.

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## asimplegirl

Time to stick my hand in a bag of ice.[XX(] Not the smartest thing I've done....

Salt water is nasty. Looks like all the tennifer pieces are fine, but untreated parts didnt stand a chance. I believe the rust on the barrel dripped down from the guide rod and should wipe right off.

Its just discolored, everything slides, clicks, and sproings just fine. I'm going to clean everything and see what is actually rust and what is just "runoff".

I'll keep those springs until they break[]
http://theprepared.com/images/guns/g...altedparts.jpg
Good as new, almost. The Guide rod has pitting dammage, and so does the slide lock but thats the only evidence remaining. The locking block must have tennifer along with all the pins. The sopts on the bottom of the barrel discolored the finish, but the metal is still glass smooth. The other parts must be stainless steel, as it rubbed off, but didnt wipre righ off like the barrel and slide.

I finally got a chance to see how it did with bead blasting media. If you have never felt this stuff, its really cool, so small and round, it feels almost like water. Here's a pic of the media used midex with common table salt and a dime

I put a few cups in a baggie with the pistol and shook it up good, took it out and shot the rounds I had in the mag. I repeated this three times. The video sucks, as I had to set it up to record by myself.

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## asimplegirl

Bead Media Test

First time no problem, except I got a beads all over my face, so I let it run out a bit on the second. The second time a round failed to feed because the magazine was binding up. The third time, was worthless because I had gotten enough media in the mag to make it useless. The weak spot here was the magazine, the media got in there and had no where to go. A new magazine and I'm sure it would work fine. Not a flawless test, but I cant find the line until I cross it. Again, nothing that a simple field strip and shaking out couldnt fix and back into action.
After I shook it out, I put a handful of play sand in the bag and shook it up. Same old results from every other time it was full of sand. It worked just fine.   

Just a .22 pistol 30' away. I didnt expect it to do any damage, if we hit where we were aiming. Hit it 10 times before I lost my nerve and didnt want to risk hitting the frame. One hit the extractor, but didnt hurt anything.

I took some degreaser and steel wool to one of the spots. It basicaly rubs right off

http://theprepared.com/images/guns/g...st/magwell.jpg
Over time the transfer bar and disconnect have worn grooves into each other. I guess that will happen what contacting metal parts are never oiled. This may be the reason for the 8.5lb trigger?

And for those who say the plastic mag catch will wear out..... nope, they built it plenty strong too.

A customer came to me last week with his USP .45 Compact he had just gotten it back from HK who had replaced a broken trigger bar. It has fewer than 1K rounds through it, and is well taken care of. He asked me if I would trust a pistol that broke, and was fixed by the factory. I said no. He asked me to run 500rds through it and see what happened.

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## asimplegirl

I took his pistol and 8 magazines, My 21 and 8 magazines, and 1K rounds of ammo.
Both pistols were field stripped and blown completely clean and dry with compressed air.
2 mags were emptied in clean condition to make sure everything was fine.

For the fist comparison I threw a couple handfuls of play sand in a bucket.

I took each pistol, full mag, round in the chamber and shook it in the sand for a few seconds. I did this first with the 21 and it went bang 13 times as expected.

I pulled the USP compact out of the bucket(it was loaded but decocked), pulled the trigger, hammer falls but no bang. I pull the trigger again and still no bang. Not a squib, and not a delay. I cycle the slide and eject the cartridge, but it fails to go into battery. I repeat, while shaking out sand, until the magazine is empty. After removing the slide blowing the frame out with compressed air I repeat the test.

wont lock

Back in the bucket, shake, attempt to shoot – exact same results. Field strip and blow out with compressed air. This was attempted 4 times, with 4 different magazines. The first shot did go off once, but did not lock up for the following round. Again it required fieldstripping to function.

OK, it doesn’t work in sand. For a different twist, I took a UPS mag and a glock mag and threw them in the bucket and shook them up.

I picked up the 21 mag, loaded the pistol, pulled the trigger 13 times. I then picked up the USP mag, pulled the trigger once and it went bang. The slide failed to close on the second round. Ejecting the 2nd round partially inserted the 3rd but also a bunch of sand. The USP mags have basically a shovel extending for the slide stop, which proved them useless combined with the sand.


Sand is over, time for good old potting soil. Potting soil was basically a repeat of the sand. The USP never went bang once. Even with a round in the chamber, and numerous hammer strikes, nothing.



Cycling by hand ejected round, but would not lock up on the following round.


After that we gave up, on the USP and took turns emptying the several full 21 mags.

I’ll return the customers pistol and his 500 rounds. This USP compact went bang every time clean, so it works fine. I would never trust it though, as a carry piece.

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## asimplegirl

I wanted to try another salt water test on the slide and barrel. I mixed up a good mixture of road salt and water, and poured it into a glass of water. I then took a sock I had been using as a rag, and put the slide and barrel in the sock. I then put the sock into the salt water glass. I know it needs air to rust so I poured out the access water, and set the glass on the outside windowsill where it was exposed.
Well, the sock is now dry. Will leaving it sit for a few more days accomplish anything more or has this test gone as far as it can go?

After 1 week there the rust is seeping through the once black wool sock.

I think its just runnoff rust from the sights. Its supposed to be raining for the next day here, so I'll set it on my back deck to rinse off overnight.

Time for some WD40 and a brillo pad

I learned how deep the tennifer goes. corners of the slide where it had been dropped/dinged/gouged were full of honest to goodness rust. The brillo also seemed to tak off most all of the black finish for the first time too!. I guess the concentrated salt water in the sock was the last straw for it. Other than the damaged areas, nothing rusted, so I'l sure under normal use it would have been just fin under the same conditions.

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## asimplegirl

Preparation for one more test. X marks the spot. 500’ at 100PMH. Will take place as soon as can be coordinated between plane, pilot, and spotter on the ground.

I’m still waiting for the corn to come down for the plane toss, but I wanted to think of something I haven’t done yet. I never put it up against a pick up truck?

Speedbump?

Dirt speed bump?

Need to shake the dirt loose form the barrel, so I tied it to the bumper

Run through what mags I have loaded.

May as well shake it out with one more road trip. The mag was always full, but no round in the chamber for the “draggings”.

The rear sight took a bump to the right.

couple wacks with hammer should get it back on paper.


Looks good, lets see how it hits at 35’. (sorry for the focus was zooming in on the target)

results

A bit to the left, but good enough. Even after all its been, it still groups as good as it did the day I got it, well at least as well as I can shoot it!

I wondered how it shoots at 50yds with S&B ball ammo, and the filthy crunchy, heavy trigger?


First 13shot group was to the left, so I gave it another wack with the hammer. The second 13shot group was the bad guy. Good enough for a fighting .45!

I'm really running out of ideas, so decided to drop it off the roof with a primed case in the chamber to see if it would go off.
Primed brass in the chamber, and a full mag for weight in the pistol.

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## asimplegirl

No surprise, it didnt go off. The surprise/scare was when I went to shoot it. the first 3 shots went off fine. The 4th failed to lock into battery, so I had to wack it closed. 5th shot went off fine, but 6th failed to go into battery. I wacked it but it was stuck. I went and got the hammer and pounded the slide back and locked it open. Everything looks ok? I put the mag back in and close the slide on the next round. Works fine, goes bang. The following shot locked the frame out of battery again with the round half way in the chamber. I opent it up with the hammer again and field strip it to see what wrong. Trigger bar bent? frame bent? I'm sitting on the ground and pick up one of the rounds that was stuck and drop it inthe chamber - it wont fit. WTF? I putt it out and its flat on one side. Bullet case and all. I grap the others and they are the same. I guess it fell hard enough to smash all the rounds staggered on that side of the magazine.

Oh well, it still works.


Just a reminder, this isnt a "test" only pistol. This is my usualy IDPA, 3 Gun, Carbine class pistol, and it does not get cleaned/lubed before use.

I used it in a 3 Gun match on Saturday, and as usual, it worked like a clock.

It gets normal use. I need the 13rd capacity when shooting at poppers set for 00 buck, that will only go down with head shots.
shot gun poppers
Shotgun Popper Video

Drop Video 

It took me 20 minutes to find it stuck in the dirt, so its only fair for you wait []

All that was visible, was the bottom of the magazine and about 2" of grip, the rest was under ground.

Here's what the point of impact looked like.

So what do you think it will look like when I pull it out of the ground?

Recovery video coming soon

There was dirt in everything. When I took it out of the dirt the slide stuck back about 1".
I had shook most of it out by the time we had walked back to the yard. It shot and functioned fine, didnt even have to field strip.

Function video coming soon

Still very much minute of dead. Not bad considering what its been through and not having any cleaning or lube since page 12.   


It shoots just as well as I have ever been able to shoot it. I can easily hold a fist size group at 30', which all I need.

Heres a 25' 10 shot group immediately after it was dropped from the plane, with the trigger still full of dirt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgjmtj9TgX8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUwO_...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM-UO...eature=related

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## asimplegirl

Google results for Glock Torture Testing:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...k+torture+test

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## FreedomFighter8008

Oh my f'n god!!  O.k. I'm convinced that Glocks are the most flippin' durable handguns on the planet!  I've also read more about the Barettas and have ruled them out.

Now, what do any of you think about the Sig P226 or 229?

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## asimplegirl

Better than the Beretta, but in my book, not as good as the Glock.  i don't like the weight and the high bore axis.  Other than that, they are awesome.  I would get the 226 out of those two.   That's a nice gun.

High bore axis bothers me as a long time Glock shooter, but I could probably get used to it.  But carrying? I would not do it for the weight, but I carry all day long and need something that isn't going to cause an issue driving, and cause pain.

I am not going to say it is bad...I just like Glock. 

It depends on the use of the gun.  226 is a bad ass gun, but I won't carry it.

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## psywarrior13

Any weapon that is properly maintained will be reliable, that said, I have spent time with a M-9 and own two glocks (17,21) get which ever feel right in your hands. That might even mean buying something other than a M-9 or a Glock, shop around, the right gun will find you.

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## psywarrior13

Oh I do own a SIG (SP 2340) they are a little pricey, but are great weapons, you would be well served with any of these choices.

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## akihabro

Wow this guy really punished his Glock.  I was thinking of getting a Glock 21.  Shows me how durable they are, not that I'd do this to mine but still good to know!

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## akihabro

> I was in 1AD  in Germany when they took away our .45 cal 1911A1s and issued the M9. It was not a good experience. They hyped it big with the standard NATO round and the durability testing and it was oh so reliable.
> 
> I have small hands ant the grip did not work for me - accuracy OK, but my 9mm pistols are Walthers and I bought a 1911A1 GI model as my preferred pistol.
> 
> When I was at Ft. Hood, our unit lost a 1911A1 - it was found in a tank trail just over one year later, cleaned and inspected, then returned to service. Try that with either a Beretta or a Glock.


Haha a tank tread?  I know I'm almost comparing apples to oranges but the design of that handgun sounds like one of the reason why the browning M1919 is still in service.  Just cause its new doesn't always mean its better.

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## chudrockz

> Wow this guy really punished his Glock.  I was thinking of getting a Glock 21.  Shows me how durable they are, not that I'd do this to mine but still good to know!


I have owned a glock model 30 (subcompact .45) for about ten years and I absolutely LOVE it. A couple of thousand rounds through it, and the only failure was when the magazine was brand new and I actually tried to force the tenth round into it (not a good idea).

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## FreedomFighter8008

I did see a gently used SIG P226 at a gun show yesterday for $550.  Included two 15 round clips and carrying case . . .  Glock 19, new, was about $575 . . .

Both fit my hand well and felt well balanced so it's hard to decide without shooting them to see which one I shoot better with.

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## ksuguy

Have you considered a CZ or EAA Witness?  I like those much better than Glocks or Berettas.    However,  handgun choices can vary dramatically from person to person.  Just go with whichever one you like the best.

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## FreedomFighter8008

> Have you considered a CZ or EAA Witness?  I like those much better than Glocks or Berettas.    However,  handgun choices can vary dramatically from person to person.  Just go with whichever one you like the best.


Yes, I looked at a CZ.  Nice gun, but just didn't feel as good in my hand as the SIG or the Glock.  Haven't heard of the EAA Witness.

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## Pericles

> Haha a tank tread?  I know I'm almost comparing apples to oranges but the design of that handgun sounds like one of the reason why the browning M1919 is still in service.  Just cause its new doesn't always mean its better.


Just to be clear - a tank trail is an unimproved dirt road. So, it was run over by an unknown number of vehicles, but in a main road on a post with two armored divisions .....

The M16s are much more sensitive and get busted up by armored vehicles all the time in the course of business.

I really respect Browning as a designer, as long as we use brass case ammunition, the .50 may never be replaced, and that Glock may be the only thing that can compete with the .45, and the BAR is terribly impressive as a weapon as well.

I bought the Walthers some time ago (have a P-1, P-4, and P-5), and would not consider them field guns capable of taking the abuse a Glock can. They are well engineered weapons, but like the M16 have to be well maintained.

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## ksuguy

> Yes, I looked at a CZ.  Nice gun, but just didn't feel as good in my hand as the SIG or the Glock.  Haven't heard of the EAA Witness.


Well if the CZ didn't work for you, the Witness probably wouldn't either since it is pretty much the same design.  I like them because you can easily change calibers with conversion kits.

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## FreedomFighter8008

> I like them because you can easily change calibers with conversion kits.


That's a pretty cool (and handy) feature.

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## asimplegirl

> I did see a gently used SIG P226 at a gun show yesterday for $550.  Included two *15 round clips* and carrying case . . .  Glock 19, new, was about $575 . . .
> 
> Both fit my hand well and felt well balanced so it's hard to decide without shooting them to see which one I shoot better with.


AHHHHHH! Don't do this with the movie lingo! It's a mag, not a clip.  There are certain guns that use clips, but to anyone who knows what they are talking about you seem like an asshat using that word incorrectly.

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.

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## phill4paul

> AHHHHHH! Don't do this with the movie lingo! It's a mag, not a clip.  There are certain guns that use clips, but to anyone who knows what they are talking about you seem like an asshat using that word incorrectly.
> 
> Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.


  Lol. It's a pet peeve of many.

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## phill4paul

Also, for first time handgun owners, I suggest a revolver. 

  The reason I say this is because it is the way I was taught. With a revolver it will allow you to leave one chamber empty while practicing. This will teach you not to anticipate the recoil and noise and have a cleaner shot. Just my 2 cents.

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## sidster

> Also, for first time handgun owners, I suggest a revolver. 
> 
>   The reason I say this is because it is the way I was taught. With a revolver it will allow you to leave one chamber empty while practicing. This will teach you not to anticipate the recoil and noise and have a cleaner shot. Just my 2 cents.


interesting.

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## asimplegirl

this is interesting.

Why wouldn't you want to anticipate the recoil and noise? It's a fact of using a gun.

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## phill4paul

> interesting.


  For most first time shooters after the first coupla rounds there bodies will begin to "anticipate" the shots. Eyes will close before the hammer strikes and the hands will make a jerking motion. 

  Try it with a revolver sometime leaving a round out. I still practice occasionally in this old-school method. I will take a revolver with a speed loader any day over an automatic. Not that I don't like automatics or see their necessity.

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## phill4paul

> this is interesting.
> 
> Why wouldn't you want to anticipate the recoil and noise? It's a fact of using a gun.


  It's not so much the anticipation as the bodies reaction to anticipation. Arms/hands will tense, eyes will close the trigger will not have a slow steady pull, all these have a tendency to throw the shot off. 

  Having an empty chamber will teach a first time shooter not to anticipate and tense up.

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## FreedomFighter8008

> Also, for first time handgun owners, I suggest a revolver. 
> 
>   The reason I say this is because it is the way I was taught. With a revolver it will allow you to leave one chamber empty while practicing. This will teach you not to anticipate the recoil and noise and have a cleaner shot. Just my 2 cents.


Good advice, but I'm not really worried about that after 8 years Active Duty in the Army firing M16s (qualified as expert every time).  I just need to learn my way around a handgun and the differences in how you shoot them and I should be good to go.

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## asimplegirl

> It's not so much the anticipation as the bodies reaction to anticipation. Arms/hands will tense, eyes will close the trigger will not have a slow steady pull, all these have a tendency to throw the shot off. 
> 
>   Having an empty chamber will teach a first time shooter not to anticipate and tense up.


But, wouldn't you want to shoot consistently?  You have more noise and recoil form a revolver because there is no slide to move rearward to absorb when fired...so in itself, of the same cal...the revolver will be worse..just a  false statement.

Only way that is different is if it is like a mini version of the same caliber.

I am sorry, but I would just rather learn to shoot how I will always shoot.  I'd hate to be used to one thing, then shoot and expect it to be the same and it not be later.

BTW, you could just completely unload an automatic, and dry fire in your living room for practice...

Just practice shooting...don't take short cuts.  If you ever have to use your gun its the last thing on your mind.

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## phill4paul

> But, wouldn't you want to shoot consistently?  You have more noise and recoil form a revolver because there is no slide to move rearward to absorb when fired...so in itself, of the same cal...the revolver will be worse..just a  false statement.
> 
> Only way that is different is if it is like a mini version of the same caliber.
> 
> I am sorry, but I would just rather learn to shoot how I will always shoot.  I'd hate to be used to one thing, then shoot and expect it to be the same and it not be later.
> 
> BTW, you could just completely unload an automatic, and dry fire in your living room for practice...
> 
> Just practice shooting...don't take short cuts.  If you ever have to use your gun its the last thing on your mind.


  Well the point is that it does allows you to learn to shoot consistently, regardless of gun or caliber.

  Dry firing would not do the same as you would know the gun was unloaded and your body would not react the same. 

  I'm not out for a pissing contest I'm just passing on some wisdom that was passed to me. It has made me a better shot regardless of which hand gun I pick up.

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## asimplegirl

No, I am not trying to make this a pissing contest, either, but a revolver is going to be louder with more recoil anyway, so that defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Why not just learn to shoot how you will have to shoot in a moment's notice anyway, then you are comfortable with the outcome that will happen normally.

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## phill4paul

> No, I am not trying to make this a pissing contest, either, but a revolver is going to be louder with more recoil anyway, so that defeats the purpose doesn't it?
> 
> Why not just learn to shoot how you will have to shoot in a moment's notice anyway, then you are comfortable with the outcome that will happen normally.



  Defeats the purpose of what? Learning how to shoot a handgun?

  Yes a revolver will have more recoil and noise. That does not nullify the fact that good practice makes perfect. Bad technique, practiced thousands of times, does not.

  The point is moot in that the OP has stated that he has firearms experience. My suggestion was for first time handgun owners. I stand by it. In an emergency situation you cannot count out the fact that your firearm will be the one you are using.

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## Anti Federalist

> My suggestion was for first time handgun owners. I stand by it. In an emergency situation you cannot count out the fact that your firearm will be the one you are using.


I agree with this.

For a first time handgun owner, a revolver makes perfect sense for a carry/home defense weapon.

Do yourself a favor and spend the money for a Crimson Trace grip laser sight.

Also, I'm not going to recommend a Glock either. The trigger safety is the issue here.

And yes, I've owned and shot both, both in 9mm.

The Glock is gone and the 92FS is still in the locker.

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## Uriel999

> Haha a tank tread?  I know I'm almost comparing apples to oranges but the design of that handgun sounds like one of the reason why the browning M1919 is still in service.  Just cause its new doesn't always mean its better.


http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta...roduct454.aspx



One day I will have my own! throw on a crank fire and your firing almost as fast as full auto!

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## phill4paul

> http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta...roduct454.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> One day I will have my own! throw on a crank fire and your firing almost as fast as full auto!


  LOL! O.K. _NOT_ a handgun. When I was in the Navy I had a friend that was a a Marine. Use to let me fire the twin .50s off the aft. As trash was cast off I'd sink it.  No accounting for the recoil and noise with those!

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## asimplegirl

> Defeats the purpose of what? Learning how to shoot a handgun?
> 
>   Yes a revolver will have more recoil and noise. That does not nullify the fact that good practice makes perfect. Bad technique, practiced thousands of times, does not.
> 
>   The point is moot in that the OP has stated that he has firearms experience. My suggestion was for first time handgun owners. I stand by it. In an emergency situation you cannot count out the fact that your firearm will be the one you are using.


The only way this makes sense for a first time owner is that they probably won't accidentally shoot their head off, considering a revolver has like a ten pound trigger pull.

so, whatever, I don't care, stand by it- but it's wrong.

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## phill4paul

> The only way this makes sense for a first time owner is that they probably won't accidentally shoot their head off, considering a revolver has like a ten pound trigger pull.


  I have no idea what you are inferring to. Accidentlly shoot their head off? Ten pound trigger pull? WTF?

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## asimplegirl

> I have no idea what you are inferring to. Accidentlly shoot their head off? Ten pound trigger pull? WTF?


Please tell me you're joking...this is all basic firearms knowledge and terminology.  

All double-action revolvers have around a 10# trigger pull which makes them almost impossible to discharge accidentally.  This is the main reason why they are recommended for women and new shooters.  On the flip side, those same revolvers that are commonly recommended for them are usually 2" .38SPL which are very hard for the majority of women and new shooters to hit anything with unless they are 3 feet away from it.

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## phill4paul

> Please tell me you're joking...this is all basic firearms knowledge and terminology.  
> 
> All double-action revolvers have around a 10# trigger pull which makes them almost impossible to discharge accidentally.  This is the main reason why they are recommended for women and new shooters.  On the flip side, those same revolvers that are commonly recommended for them are usually 2" .38SPL which are very hard for the majority of women and new shooters to hit anything with unless they are 3 feet away from it.


  O.K. You are quite right. I was thinking that you were being flippant, and in truth many would not know what you were talking about. It was the part about accidentally shooting their heads off that threw me off.

  You seem to have an aversion to revolvers as a women or a first time shooters choice of gun. I am happy that you have found your bliss in the automatic.

  I would not recommend a 2" 38SPL to anyone except as a  throw down.

  Shoot as you wish. I will shoot as I choose. I believe the way I was taught has allowed me to fire any handgun more proficiently. Readers can take it or leave it.  I do not care. I have nothing to prove.

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## M House

I think most double action revolvers can be operated single action with a much lighter pull if the hammer is pulled down first to cock the gun. But I'm not a fire arms expert or anything. Also depending on the design it might be lighter than 10 pounds as well. Anyway the thread starter seemed to specify two different double stack magazine 9mm automatic handguns. A compact fairly standard Glock and a standard size Beretta 92. Both are sometimes referred to as double action but this is not entirely correct. Glock would best be described as having a multi-action trigger. The FS is I think a double-action/single-action. Anyway, mechanically both are going to be very different so he might wanna check that out in detail. Which is better? I don't own any firearms but I think there a few better mechanical designs than both of them. The Glock, I think is just better if your gonna compare the two. Also I don't think there's too much of a right or wrong way to train and operate a firearm so long long as you can do it safely, efficiently, and repeatedly. I think most any methodology will share the same principles, unless your doing something weird like that double handgun russian technique stuff or something. It also needs to get you familiar with whatever you plan to use.

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## nodope0695

Baretta 96 INOX all the way, dude!

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## Uriel999

Sure you don't want o join us in the XD club? :P

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## FreedomFighter8008

> Sure you don't want o join us in the XD club? :P


What do you like about the XDs?  A friend of mine (who spent 2 tours in Afganistan and 1 in Iraq), really likes them, so I'm now starting to consider the XD-9 as an option.  Sounds like the grip is smaller than the Glock 19, which could be an issue, but other than that, the XD looks pretty good on paper.  I'm totally o.k. with the Glock, but I worry about AD issues with that trigger "safety".

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## Toureg89

glocks are one of the best hand guns you can get. 

a G19 will probably be about the same or maybe slightly cheaper than a beretta. 

the angle the hand gun grip for the glock is at is the most extreme, making your body act the most like a spring to absorb the shock from the firing gun. 

and if you havent seen the stress tests on youtube for the glock, you should google it. 

the only thing i would buy a beretta for is collection; just to have it.

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## FreedomFighter8008

> Sure you don't want o join us in the XD club? :P


Mmmmm . . . O.K.!!!  I went and checked out the XD-9 tonight and LOVED IT!!  What a flippin' well-balanced piece!  It fit me like it was made for my hand and every time I just pointed it, the sights all but lined right up.  Very sweet!

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## Conservative Christian

Springfield XD Torture Test:

http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php


.

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## Uriel999

> Mmmmm . . . O.K.!!!  I went and checked out the XD-9 tonight and LOVED IT!!  What a flippin' well-balanced piece!  It fit me like it was made for my hand and every time I just pointed it, the sights all but lined right up.  Very sweet!

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## ihsv

Springfield Armory XD all the way

I have a subcompact, and I love it!

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## FreedomFighter8008

Thanks for the torture test article!  I got the service model.  I may have to get the subcompact as well for concealed carry . . .

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## ihsv

> Springfield XD Torture Test:
> 
> http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php
> 
> 
> .


Bow wow!  Not that I'm going to (intentionally) go tossing my XD into the mud or anything, but that's darned impressive.


More info on the XD can be found on this thread

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## Uriel999

> Thanks for the torture test article!  I got the service model.  I may have to get the subcompact as well for concealed carry . . .


Welcome to the XD club.  You are now one of the cool kids.

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## FreedomFighter8008

Just read this on Springfield's web site:

"George Washington ordered the creation of Springfield Armory in 1777 to store revolutionary ammunition and gun carriages."

Gives me goose bumps . . .

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## Pericles

> Just read this on Springfield's web site:
> 
> "George Washington ordered the creation of Springfield Armory in 1777 to store revolutionary ammunition and gun carriages."
> 
> Gives me goose bumps . . .


MA seems to have changed since then ....

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## xd9fan

out of those two???

Glock 19 hands down dont look back.

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