# News & Current Events > Coronavirus SARS-CoV2 >  Oil and Gas Industries Dont Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance

## Anti Federalist

*Oil and Gas Industries Dont Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WfTPSLkJ2M

PENNY STARR 11 Mar 2020

Despite media reports that President Donald Trump wants to bail out U.S. oil and natural gas companies after the coronavirus shook the international energy market, representatives from the industry said thats not something they seek.

CNBC called members of energy trade associations who met with White House staff on Wednesday to talk about how the coronavirus is affecting the market after oil prices dropped 24 percent on Monday and four percent lobbyists.

While the coronavirus is affecting all markets, the oil price plunge took place after negotiations between the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and Russia fell apart and the de facto OPEC head, Saudi Arabia, responded by slashing oil prices and said it would increase production.

CNBC then reported that the oil industry isnt seeking a bailout, according to the American Petroleum Institute, the largest trade association representing the oil and natural gas industry:

Still, the American Petroleum Institute, which represents companies including Halliburton, Hess and Occidental Petroleum, is not seeking federal aid, said the the spokeswoman, Bethany Aronhalt. That statement comes despite reports Tuesday indicating President Donald Trump was considering a federal aid package for the shale industry, potentially in the form of low-interest loans. An official told CNBC that the White House doesnt want the potential assistance to be perceived as a bailout.

API CEO Mike Sommers told Bloomberg on Tuesday the groups focus is on balancing the oil market.

What we have here is a demand shock, of course, because of coronavirus, and a supply shock, because of the decision by Russia and the Saudis to flood the market with oil, Sommers said. He went on:

So, we are concerned about these geopolitical factors that are feeding into some downturn within the industry  right now, we trying to make sure policymakers are responding in the right way. But, ultimately, the solution here is to work in a diplomatic way to make sure oil markets are well-balanced.

Were focused on making sure the free-market works, not on some government intervention that would be outside the market. 

The Department of Energy suspended the sale of crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which would have put more oil into the market, a move Sommers supports.

We want to make sure the government continues to make these kinds of decisions that are good for the oil industry, Sommers said.

Reuters reported that Russia wants to work with OPEC under certain conditions, according to Pavel Sorokin, Russias deputy energy minister:

Sorokin said Russia was open to talking to OPEC again if the situation arises and was not engaging in a price war.

Russias oil producers, [which] price their crude in dollars on world markets, would be sheltered by the dollar-rouble exchange rate.

We are not in a price war with anyone, Sorokin said. We are competitive. We watch the market and understand that such a situation will help the market to recover. High-cost projects will disappear.

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## Brian4Liberty

Is war for oil considered a bailout?

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## shakey1

Again with the bailouts.

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## Swordsmyth

Now would be a great time to fill the SPR to the brim.

Tax cuts are also a good idea and so is a tariff on foreign oil that is being dumped on the market as economic warfare.

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## oyarde

> Is war for oil considered a bailout?


I am not sure it can be since I never got any oil from the wars .

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## Brian4Liberty

> I am not sure it can be since I never got any oil from the wars .


You probably don’t get anything from any government bailouts.

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## oyarde

> You probably don’t get anything from any government bailouts.


Not a thing .

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## sam1952

> *Oil and Gas Industries Dont Want Coronavirus Bailout, Just Market Balance*
> 
> 
> 
> Still, the American Petroleum Institute, which represents companies including Halliburton, Hess and Occidental Petroleum, is not seeking federal aid, said the the spokeswoman, Bethany Aronhalt. That statement comes despite reports Tuesday indicating President Donald Trump was considering a federal aid package for the *shale* industry, potentially in the form of low-interest loans. An official told CNBC that the White House doesnt want the potential assistance to be perceived as a  market, a move Sommers supports.



Shale industry, isnt that what all this anti fracking movement is trying to shut down??? Kinda goes against everything holy.

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## Swordsmyth

> Now would be a great time to fill the SPR to the brim.
> 
> Tax cuts are also a good idea and so is a tariff on foreign oil that is being dumped on the market as economic warfare.


*Oil Surges After Trump Orders DOE To Fill Up Strategic Petroleum Reserve*

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## Theocrat

> Now would be a great time to fill the SPR to the brim.
> 
> Tax cuts are also a good idea and so is a tariff on foreign oil that is being dumped on the market as economic warfare.


Explain to me how a tariff on foreign oil is as good as tax cuts.

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## pcosmar

Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??

25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.

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## Swordsmyth

> Explain to me how a tariff on foreign oil is as good as tax cuts.


When foreign governments interfere in the market with the intent of harming America it is the responsibility of the government to neutralize it.
That's not protectionist, it's defensive.

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## jon4liberty

> When foreign governments interfere in the market with the intent of harming America it is the responsibility of the government to neutralize it.
> That's not protectionist, it's defensive.


This...

Same with the open borders crowd. There are still government who respect the invisible lines drawn up on maps. Immigration can be used as a tool of war like Ron Paul had said. We are unfortunately not in a perfect world where governments have dissolved and we have a a true free market across the globe

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## Theocrat

> When foreign governments interfere in the market with the intent of harming America it is the responsibility of the government to neutralize it.
> That's not protectionist, it's defensive.


"Harming America."

How?

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## RonZeplin

> Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??
> 
> 25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.


My guess is that the US gov building up the Strategic Oil Reserve, is propping up high gas prices.    IOW, gov market manipulation.  

Trump has announced a massive increase in the US strategic oil reserve.  No problemo, just print more money. 


Socialism

*Trump Orders Department of Energy to Replenish U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve in Coronavirus*

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## Swordsmyth

> "Harming America."
> 
> How?


By shutting down American businesses, putting Americans out of work and making America more dependent on hostile foreign countries for our needs.

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## specsaregood

> Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??
> 
> 25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.


Saw it at $2.11 down the street from me,  other places in NJ are down to $1.99.. so there you go.
http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/

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## pcosmar

> Saw it at $2.11 down the street from me,  other places in NJ are down to $1.99.. so there you go.


$3.00 a gal.. with a change difference through the area. Washington State.

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## oyarde

> Why aren't Pump Prices reflecting the Cheap Oil??
> 
> 25$ a barrel should be under 2$ at the pump. historically.


Wholesale gasoline in .90 cents @ 31.50 oil . Here gas is 1.70 so about .80 over wholesale which is probably within 10 cents of the norm .

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## oyarde

Also remember that 1.70 I payed today includes three taxes that are percentages . In East & West coast states two of those taxes could be higher .

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## oyarde

When we had the Obama economy gasoline at 4.11 about a quarter of that price was taxes .

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## oyarde

Oyarde is ready and prepared for 1.00 gas , 1900 gold and a 15K Dow .

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## Theocrat

> By shutting down American businesses, putting Americans out of work and making America more dependent on hostile foreign countries for our needs.


Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?

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## Swordsmyth

> Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?


The Constitution give the government the right to conduct foreign affairs and regulate foreign trade.
This is not a case of controlling the economy, it's a case of defending the free market from foreign government intervention.
Scripture is not the issue here but it doesn't contain anything requiring us to let foreigners harm us.

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## Anti Federalist

> Where in the U.S. Constitution, and more importantly, the Holy Scriptures, does it give the civil government the right to control the economy in order to protect the industries of one nation over against another nation?


"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." 

One of the blessings of liberty is prosperity and property, which of course, leads to well paid employment.

Sacrificing the prosperity of our posterity to foreign interests and agents is traitorous.

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## Theocrat

> The Constitution give the government the right to conduct foreign affairs and regulate foreign trade.
> This is not a case of controlling the economy, it's a case of defending the free market from foreign government intervention.
> Scripture is not the issue here but it doesn't contain anything requiring us to let foreigners harm us.


First of all, I asked *where* in the U.S. Constitution does it give the civil (in this case, federal) government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries within the States from industries without the States. That means I need some citations, please.

Second of all, the moment the civil government has to come in to "defend the free market from foreign government intervention," you no longer have a free market. A free market, by definition, is without government intervention. You sound just like George W. Bush when he said that we have to suspend capitalism in order to save capitalism. That's not how it works, anymore than passing a bill in order to know what's in a bill.

Last of all, I didn't ask where in Scripture does it allow foreigners to harm us; I asked where in the Holy Scriptures does it give civil magistrates the right to control an economy. Your *assumption* is that the civil magistrate is protecting us from foreigners whenever it manages the economy in some way (as in increasing tariffs), but that's just begging the question.

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## Theocrat

> "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." 
> 
> One of the blessings of liberty is prosperity and property, which of course, leads to well paid employment.
> 
> Sacrificing the prosperity of our posterity to foreign interests and agents is traitorous.


I missed the part in the Preamble where it gives the federal government the right to control the free exchange of goods.

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## Swordsmyth

> First of all, I asked *where* in the U.S. Constitution does it give the civil (in this case, federal) government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries within the States from industries without the States. That means I need some citations, please.


It's not my job to run and fetch for you but I'll indulge you.

A1 S8:
  The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;...

...To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations






> Second of all, the moment the civil government has to come in to "defend the free market from foreign government intervention," you no longer have a free market. A free market, by definition, is without government intervention. You sound just like George W. Bush when he said that we have to suspend capitalism in order to save capitalism. That's not how it works, anymore than passing a bill in order to know what's in a bill.


Bunk, that's like saying that the moment the army responds to an invasion you no longer have peace.
The foreign government intervention puts an end to the free market and only domestic defense against that government intervention can restore it.
You are the one turning things on their head and claiming that foreign government intervention is the free market.




> Last of all, I didn't ask where in Scripture does it allow foreigners to harm us; I asked where in the Holy Scriptures does it give civil magistrates the right to control an economy. Your *assumption* is that the civil magistrate is protecting us from foreigners whenever it manages the economy in some way (as in increasing tariffs), but that's just begging the question.


Defending against foreign trade warfare is not controlling the economy, I am not assuming anything, I am discussing a case of foreign government intervention and calling for our government to neutralize it.

You can keep pretending that foreign government intervention is the free market and that eliminating it so that the economy is free of government intervention is "controlling the economy" but it won't make it true.

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## Anti Federalist

> I missed the part in the Preamble where it gives the federal government the right to control the free exchange of goods.


An international pandemic, which could very possibly turn out to be man-made falls under:




> provide for the common defense


Or do you prefer Red Bill DiBlasio's plan to just nationalize everything?

Course, what gives the FedGov the right is not in the preamble, but right here:




> Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:
> 
>     [The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations...

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## CaptainAmerica

> Again with the bailouts.


Did you or anyone else think it was about something else???

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## Swordsmyth

U.S. oil companies battered by the crude price war between Saudi  Arabia and Russia are encouraging the Trump administration to waive a  law that mandates only American vessels can be used to transport goods  among U.S. ports.  A temporary waiver of that law, known as the Jones Act, “can allow  American producers to move domestic products with greater ease within  the U.S.,” the American Exploration and Production Council said in a  letter sent to congressional leaders Thursday and seen by Bloomberg. The  group represents independent oil companies that have announced plans to  scale back operations as Russia and Saudi Arabia flood the world with  crude, including Parsley Energy Inc., Chesapeake Energy Corp. and  Pioneer Natural Resources Co.
  The move comes as the Trump administration has weighed ideas to  buttress domestic oil producers amid the Russia-Saudi feud, including  lowering royalty rates for crude extracted from federal lands.  Continental Resources Inc. Chairman Harold Hamm told Bloomberg TV on  Wednesday that he wants the Commerce Department to investigate whether  Saudi Arabia is violating antidumping laws by flooding the world with  cheap crude. Not everyone is on board.
  “We want to be clear: Our industry is not seeking a bailout from the  federal government,” AXPC Chief Executive Officer Anne Bradbury told  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and  other congressional leaders in the letter. “This goes against the  business-minded and entrepreneurial spirits of our members, who believe  in the free market.”
  The group did say, however, that it needs President Donald Trump’s  help in ensuring “restoration of a functioning, stable, global market  for oil” and backs “market-based solutions” to help alleviate the  current supply-demand imbalance. That could include diplomatic efforts  by the president as well as the Jones Act waivers, AXPC said.
  The waiver would let U.S. companies move their oil around the country  more easily, without being forced to rely on more expensive,  U.S.-flagged, -crewed and -built tankers. But waivers would be  vehemently opposed by U.S. shipbuilding interests and their allies on  Capitol Hill, who have successfully persuaded the Trump administration  to back off creating new exemptions to the law.

More at: https://www.rigzone.com/news/wire/sh...61392-article/

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## Theocrat

> It's not my job to run and fetch for you but I'll indulge you.
> 
> A1 S8:
>   The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;...
> 
> ...To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations


Swordsmyth, do you understand what I'm asking you? I didn't ask where in the U.S. Constitution does it give Congress the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, etc., etc. I asked specifically where does it give the federal government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries in the U.S. from industries overseas.

Do you seriously believe Article I, Sec. 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives the federal government the power to choose winners and losers within an economy based on geography? Is that its original intent? I don't think so. Try again.




> Bunk, that's like saying that the moment the army responds to an invasion you no longer have peace.
> The foreign government intervention puts an end to the free market and only domestic defense against that government intervention can restore it.
> You are the one turning things on their head and claiming that foreign government intervention is the free market.


That's not even the same thing. An army that invades another country is nothing like a foreign company who produces and sells goods to another country that may be comparable or even better than the goods of the host country. You're advocating taking away choice of quality goods and cheaper prices from consumers in one nation because of the fear of competition from another nation, and that's not supporting free trade.

More importantly, it's not the federal government's role to control what goods and services consumers need or want.




> Defending against foreign trade warfare is not controlling the economy, I am not assuming anything, I am discussing a case of foreign government intervention and calling for our government to neutralize it.
> 
> You can keep pretending that foreign government intervention is the free market and that eliminating it so that the economy is free of government intervention is "controlling the economy" but it won't make it true.


You're a Christian, and I'm still waiting for a Biblical case that warrants the civil magistrate to control an economy from "foreign trade warfare." Until you provide a Scriptural argument for your stance, yes, you are making assumptions, which means you're being just as arbitrary as socialists, fascists, and communists when it comes to determining who has the authority to manage trade.

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## Swordsmyth

> Swordsmyth, do you understand what I'm asking you? I didn't ask where in the U.S. Constitution does it give Congress the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, etc., etc. I asked specifically where does it give the federal government the right to control the economy in order to protect industries in the U.S. from industries overseas.
> 
> Do you seriously believe Article I, Sec. 8 of the U.S. Constitution gives the federal government the power to choose winners and losers within an economy based on geography? Is that its original intent? I don't think so. Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not even the same thing. An army that invades another country is nothing like a foreign company who produces and sells goods to another country that may be comparable or even better than the goods of the host country. You're advocating taking away choice of quality goods and cheaper prices from consumers in one nation because of the fear of competition from another nation, and that's not supporting free trade.
> 
> More importantly, it's not the federal government's role to control what goods and services consumers need or want.
> ...


It isn't "controlling the economy" or "picking winners and losers" to prevent a hostile foreign country from doing those exact things.
And you must have missed the part of the Constitution where it empowers the federal government to "Regulate Commerce with foreign nations" read it very carefully again.

Foreign trade is good, foreign government intervention is not.

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## Theocrat

> It isn't "controlling the economy" or "picking winners and losers" to prevent a hostile foreign country from doing those exact things.
> And you must have missed the part of the Constitution where it empowers the federal government to "Regulate Commerce with foreign nations" read it very carefully again.
> 
> Foreign trade is good, foreign government intervention is not.


Once again, you're begging the question. Where is the foreign government intervention?

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## Swordsmyth

> Once again, you're begging the question. Where is the foreign government intervention?


The Saudi government is dumping product on the market at a loss to destroy our industry and make us dependent on them for our needs so they can reduce our independence and subject us to their will.

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