# Start Here > Guest Forum >  Didn't Mr. Paul just waste his time in government?

## Republicanguy

Hi,

Isn't somewhat obvious that Mr Paul wasted his time in government? He took in a tax payer's wage right. He may of gave back his pension, because simply didn't need it.

But overall his whole career as a liberty politician was a waste of his time, and money.

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## William Tell

No. Since this site is here for you to troll he clearly didn't waste his time.

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## tod evans

Dr. Paul you disrespectful commie..........

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## Republicanguy

Now, don't be a zealot. Be critical.

If a Libertarian got elected, I'd be stating my point.

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## Cleaner44

It depends on how you measure success. If your goal is to free minds, help people learn about the dangers of the Federal Reserve, promote liberty and defend the Constitution, then no Dr Paul didn't waste his time.

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## jllundqu

> Hi,
> 
> Isn't somewhat obvious that Mr Paul wasted his time in government? He took in a tax payer's wage right. He may of gave back his pension, because simply didn't need it.
> 
> But overall his whole career as a liberty politician was a waste of his time, and money.


Let's see....

Dr. Paul inspired an entire generation.  He pretty much started the TEA Party, got Liberty friendly people elected in countless state and local governments.... we have Rand Paul, Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, and others in US Gov... 

Ron Paul's contributions to human freedom will be felt for generations and history will look very kindly upon his works.  You, on the other hand, are just a dumb internet troll with nothing to show for your failed life, so you come here to bash one of the last great statesmen.  Go play in traffic.

"To believe the world can be changed to goodness...
It means to believe that sincere unselfish effort of ours to make the world a better place is not futile... that no sacrificial deed is ever lost, even though we cannot see for ourselves the result of it."  Robert Laveaga

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## Republicanguy

No Rand isn't like his dad, he is more realistic. 

Typical ignorant response from a libertarian supporter, his idea of freedom is so long as I'm okay, nobody matters, and the poor they are lazy wasters. 

If Libertarianism did have some kind of meaning, surely local government would of had candidates. I think Libertarianism is just like the Communist belief, Mr Paul always went on about the Soviet empire, or Cuba having a failed system, well his system of try hasn't been accepted anywhere. 

I think business would just get away with what they could, and the poor a lot worse off.

His non interventionist position about conflict reminds me of Jeremy Corbyn, the loony left politician as many see him. He only believed three wars were worth fighting, and one was the Spanish war. Poll ratings are 25% what they were when Mr Brown was leader of the party, and country seven years ago.

And this rather serious, but sad, and amusing situation he found himself in just before the election he was going to lose.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTr8IVWBuPE


Only a society with some form of government, and social programs-taxation is a must. Other aspects, such as morality, depending may be some government influence, but on others best left to the individual.

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## oyarde

> Hi,
> 
> Isn't somewhat obvious that Mr Paul wasted his time in government? He took in a tax payer's wage right. He may of gave back his pension, because simply didn't need it.
> 
> But overall his whole career as a liberty politician was a waste of his time, and money.


I wasted my time worked for the govt , but no Dr Paul did not .

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## Tywysog Cymru

The state of the liberty movement might not be great right now, but it is certainly better than it was before Ron Paul ran.

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## Suzanimal

Nope but you did posting this tripe.

- rep for socialists

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## EBounding

Thank you for sharing your deep Concern of Mr Paul's free time.

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## jllundqu

> No,
> 
> There is no liberty country anywhere. You can't demonstrate one. For the least leftwing parties have proven some success, with center polices. 
> 
> The only people who are being trolls are those who can't demonstrate this, there is only one Libertarian in the congress, a former republican party member.
> 
> In the UK, If many Labour politicians or hell even some Conservatives who said we will end the National Health service, they would not win their seats.
> 
> I certainly could never go private health care. But if the NHS was dismantled, it would just be bad. A society with no security, and people fall in difficult or uncertain times, it would be just bad. Look at America, I mean its really awful in some places, those here I'm sure would rather not go on about.
> ...





> “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson.
> 
> “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” – Samuel Adams.
> 
> “Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!” - Patrick Henry.
> 
> “Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it.” – John Adams.


You have no friggin clue what you are saying because you were handed wealth, prosperity, and freedom on a silver platter by BETTER MEN than yourself.  Let your socialist utopia come to fruition, as has been tried countless times throughout history, and watch you end up in chains or under the dirt.  No, sir, when the government comes for YOU, you may not be so supportive of the state.

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## Republicanguy

The problem with those quotes is that, that is over two centuries ago. 

A lot wasn't known about people, or knowledge of life. We know better now. Yes people aren't angels. 

The current debt in America is nineteen trillion, so who ever is a younger person in 2080 will be living in a country, bigger or smaller than it is now, with debt larger than the country's coffers will have.

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## Anti Federalist

> The problem with those quotes is that, that is over two centuries ago. 
> 
> A lot wasn't known about people, or knowledge of life. We know better now. Yes people aren't angels. 
> 
> The current debt in America is nineteen trillion, so who ever is a younger person in 2080 will be living in a country, bigger or smaller than it is now, with debt larger than the country's coffers will have.


Debt incurred by following policies people like you advocate.

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## jllundqu

> The problem with those quotes is that, that is over two centuries ago. 
> 
> A lot wasn't known about people, or knowledge of life. We know better now. Yes people aren't angels. 
> 
> The current debt in America is nineteen trillion, so who ever is a younger person in 2080 will be living in a country, bigger or smaller than it is now, with debt larger than the country's coffers will have.


"We know better now" ??  What kind of argument is that?  You think people have changed so much in 200 years that oligarchs wouldn't hesitate to enslave or kill you if they could?

A simple exercise:  Where do your rights come from?  (This should be interesting)

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## Krugminator2

> No,
> 
> There is no liberty country anywhere. You can't demonstrate one. For the least leftwing parties have proven some success, with center polices. 
> 
> The only people who are being trolls are those who can't demonstrate this, there is only one Libertarian in the congress, a former republican party member.
> 
> In the UK, If many Labour politicians or hell even some Conservatives who said we will end the National Health service, they would not win their seats.
> 
> I certainly could never go private health care. But if the NHS was dismantled, it would just be bad. A society with no security, and people fall in difficult or uncertain times, it would be just bad. Look at America, I mean its really awful in some places, those here I'm sure would rather not go on about.
> ...


Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, New Zealand are all pretty far on the libertarian spectrum. They aren't perfect but good enough. The US for the first 120 years of the country was close enough to a libertarian ideal for me.

The fact that you are a proud mooch absolutely disgusts me. It is one thing if someone needs a helping hand while they are struggling to be successful, it is altogether another thing to feel entitled to the effort of others. I am not exactly a hardcore libertarian, but I would have no problem letting you starve to death.

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## PaulConventionWV

Did Dr. Paul waste his time?  

Maybe, who knows.  It's hard to measure the impact of social movements.  Either way, though, I'm not worried about it.  I still loved Dr. Paul's message whether it was objectively a waste of time for the world is a moot point.  Was it a waste of time for you?  If so, then feel free to keep wasting your time talking about it.

But hey, I'll give credit where credit's due.  The question is not in and of itself an absurdity.  Dr. Paul certainly didn't know what the outcome of this would be when he started, so we certainly can't fault him, and if it was a waste of time, at least it was an effort in the right direction.  If we all made some kind of effort, starting with ourselves, we have no idea how much better we could make the world.  That's because we don't do it.

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## IBleedNavyAndOrange

> The current debt in America is nineteen trillion, so who ever is a younger person in 2080 will be living in a country, bigger or smaller than it is now, with debt larger than the country's coffers will have.


19,000,000,000,000? I'm not sure why that's a big deal? Do you understand what it means? Could you explain it?

I noticed you wrote "nineteen trillion" but didn't say what of? Dollars? What's that? Is there an actual value to it or is it some legally undefined abstract with no inherent value? Conjured from nothing, loaned at interest and impossible to pay off? That "nineteen trillion?"

19,000,000,000,000 federal reserve notes? I think that's what you wanted to write.

If you don't understand what it all means, there was a guy that wrote a book titled "End the Fed" that was a good read.

(Sorry for feeding the troll)

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## Republicanguy

> Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, New Zealand are all pretty far on the libertarian spectrum. They aren't perfect but good enough. The US for the first 120 years of the country was close enough to a libertarian ideal for me.
> 
> The fact that you are a proud mooch absolutely disgusts me. It is one thing if someone needs a helping hand while they are struggling to be successful, it is altogether another thing to feel entitled to the effort of others. I am not exactly a hardcore libertarian, but I would have no problem letting you starve to death.


It is your inhumanity you should be disappointed in. Having a dog eat dog world isn't the answer to the future of interconnectedness.

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## Chester Copperpot

what a douchebag

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## Dr.3D

> I just think the whole liberty view is a cult. I think people are deluded. 
> 
> Nobody has gotten into local government. Until then, I think like Communism, libertarianism is the same, just opposite. The Russians won't vote in Communists. Then again, they don't really have fair free elections.


As if with our controlled media, we have fair free elections?

-Rep

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## tod evans

> It is your inhumanity you should be disappointed in. Having a dog eat dog world isn't the answer to the future of interconnectedness.


Why would you desire "interconnectedness"?

Other than to try and take something you haven't earned.....

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## Dr.3D

> Why would you desire "interconnectedness"?
> 
> Other than to try and take something you haven't earned.....


Yep, charity at gunpoint isn't really charity.

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## Republicanguy

What people here are supporting is a free for all madness. A society with little government won't work. Government has done good and bad throughout history.

California was run by a millionaire governor who refused to tax the wealthy, and then the state went bankrupt as there was no money, where is the logic there?

There needs to be welfare, healthcare. Living in a society with just earn earn, and only earn will only be misery. Society must have a structure in place. It can't be me, me ,me only because you have earned it.

I couldn't afford an operation alone if I were on £10,000 a year wage or less or on the welfare or both. You are advocating the destruction of people's lives only because history has shown that reality was unfair, and it was especially without technology, and medical science.

I hope Mr Corbyn gets an opportunity to try and so something.

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## pcosmar

> What people here are supporting is a free for all madness. A society with little government won't work. Government has done good and bad throughout history.





> * Republicanguy is off the scale*


and that is putting it nicely.

This country prospered,, and the people prospered when there was little government.

and has declined as More Government and more Socialist programs are instituted.

Less is better.

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## Dr.3D

> and that is putting it nicely.
> 
> This country prospered,, and the people prospered when there was little government.
> 
> and has declined as More Government and more Socialist programs are instituted.
> 
> Less is better.


Yes, it's called freedom.   The More Government, the more laws and with each law we lose a little more freedom.

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## Occam's Banana

> There needs to be welfare, healthcare. Living in a society with just earn earn, and only earn will only be misery. Society must have a structure in place. It can't be me, me ,me only because you have earned it.


First, you bitch and whine about people you say are all, like, "me, me, me" ...




> I couldn't afford an operation alone if I were on £10,000 a year wage or less or on the welfare or both [...]


... and then you're all, like, "me, me, me" ...



Hypocrite.

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## Krugminator2

> What people here are supporting is a free for all madness. A society with little government won't work. Government has done good and bad throughout history.
> 
> *California was run by a millionaire governor who refused to tax the wealthy, and then the state went bankrupt as there was no money, where is the logic there?*
> 
> There needs to be welfare, healthcare. Living in a society with just earn earn, and only earn will only be misery. Society must have a structure in place. It can't be me, me ,me only because you have earned it.
> 
> I couldn't afford an operation alone if I were on £10,000 a year wage or less or on the welfare or both. You are advocating the destruction of people's lives only because history has shown that reality was unfair, and it was especially without technology, and medical science.
> 
> *I hope Mr Corbyn gets an opportunity to try and so something*.


*Schwarzenegger raised taxes. http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb...al/me-arnold23 "**Schwarzenegger defends tax hikes, applauds stimulus*

California didn't go bankrupt. California's state income tax is 13.3%. The state with the next highest rate is 9.9%. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tool.../INF23232.html

Here is the only thing I know about Jeremy Corbyn. It would be legitimate for the people of Britain to overthrow their government if this guy's ideas ever became the norm.

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## Iowa

So what if he did?  Wouldn't that be his problem?

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## Republicanguy

> So what if he did?  Wouldn't that be his problem?


Mr Paul wasting time? Well the point being was why be employed in government if its only to waste money talking about problems that don't have a solution with the beliefs he went into government with in the first place.

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## Suzanimal

-rep

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## Dr.3D

> -rep


Ditto

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## Republicanguy

Well the centre left won twenty years ago here. I don't remember a Libertarian party winning. 



It was like if younger Tony could walk on water that sunny day as people like to remember.

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## Suzanimal

_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._

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## Republicanguy

Seriously, one local politician where you live a Libertarian? What achievements?

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## Suzanimal



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## Iowa

> Mr Paul wasting time? Well the point being was why be employed in government if its only to waste money talking about problems that don't have a solution with the beliefs he went into government with in the first place.



You have somebody better in mind?

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## Iowa

> -rep



I can't give out neg reps.  Don't know how many points I need to do that.

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## Iowa

> _You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._



lol

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## Root

> _You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._


gotcha covered

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## osan

> Hi,
> 
> Isn't somewhat obvious that Mr Paul wasted his time in government?


Depends on the standard of measure.




> He took in a tax payer's wage right. He may of gave back his pension, because simply didn't need it.


Your point?




> But overall his whole career as a liberty politician was a waste of his time, and money.


If you think so, then for you it was.  I see it differently.  He helped me gain my orientation to the world way back in the early-mid 80s.  As is most often the case, my thinking was a bit tilted and muddied by the idiocies I'd been taught as a child.  Naturally rebellious, I knew something wasn't right about many things, but was unable to articulate the sense of it.  Just a few of Dr. Paul's words was all it took to get be un-cockeyed, so really I owe him no small debt of gratitude, insignificant as his contribution may seem to casual eyes.

Ayn Rand, while not a idol of mine, did also contribute to set my orientation toward being able to explain to myself, as well as others, why liberty is right and why it is inherent.

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## Suzanimal

> gotcha covered


Thanks, Root. I finally got him.

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## Republicanguy

You are just stuck up, and don't want to realise the truth.

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## Lamp

boo hoo

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## CCTelander

> You are just stuck up, and don't want to realise the truth.



Judging solely by your comments in this thread, you wouldn't know truth if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.

It's truly a shame that the kind of abject ignorance displayed in your comments is so prevalent in the world today. Makes me wonder if my own efforts at activism and education over the last 40+ years were a total waste.

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## Suzanimal

> You are just stuck up, and don't want to realise the truth.


_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._

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## tod evans

> You are just stuck up, and don't want to realise the truth.


The 'truth' of the matter is I don't want to pay for you to exist....

Most people don't.

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## Republicanguy

Sure, but a poor person in Arkansas as part of the Union deserves a little of your tax dollars surely?

I watched this candidate who stood for the Arkansas congress. I believe now. Reminds me of how London is on housing and the poor wage jobs, and how having a family isn't an option for being born in that city with such a low wage. Hmm, one would think reality was better out there. This is from 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE8MsGRO-NA

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## tod evans

> Sure, but a poor person in Arkansas as part of the Union deserves a little of your tax dollars surely?


Not a $#@!ing nickle.

What part of work or starve is hard for you to grasp?

Nobody owes you an existence, earn it.

This opinion is doubly true for 'single mothers' and 'minorities'....

Most civil people will help the handicapped and infirm and I'm in that boat....I'll help, NOT government!

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## Republicanguy

> Not a $#@!ing nickle.
> 
> What part of work or starve is hard for you to grasp?
> 
> Nobody owes you an existence, earn it.
> 
> This opinion is doubly true for 'single mothers' and 'minorities'....
> 
> Most civil people will help the handicapped and infirm and I'm in that boat....I'll help, NOT government!


What you state is very one way. And their could be single fathers, not just mothers. 

How would most people help the disabled? Just by standing out somewhere and telling people? You don't think a welfare claimant or a low paid employee isn't entitled at all to state funded healthcare out of your tax? 

I find it a little too good to be true. There is private health General practice here, I went once to one to see if they had a job role on offer with their stock of medical supplies. In London's Harley street.

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## tod evans

> How would most people help the disabled?



And this is the issue for people who share your mentality......

Without big-gov how would anything get done...

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## Republicanguy

Answer the question. You want to provide an alternative to centre left and right, with less government is the plan.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-bill-nihilism

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> You are just stuck up....


Oh no you didn't say that!  You are--like--totally rude!

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## tod evans

> Answer the question. You want to provide an alternative to centre left and right, with less government is the plan.


To whom are you speaking?

And who in the $#@! are you to demand answers to a query never posed?

If you have in fact posed an unanswered question then quote the post, show the question and try asking nicely at least once....

If the sentence that you wrote, quoted above, is actually intended as a question to someone you might want to actually address them and punctuate and phrase properly...Or is Engrish a second language?

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## osan

> You are just stuck up, and don't want to realise the truth.


Posts like this reduce your opinions to irrelevancy.  They scream "troll" and/or "no clue".

Do yourself a favor and take a different approach; one based in reason and the habit of making clear your reasons for holding a view.  At least then the only point on which any of us might disagree is the opinion itself and not your apparent motives, habits, tones, and so forth.

Your choice.  Have a good day.

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## osan

> Judging solely by your comments in this thread, you wouldn't know truth if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.


Never happen.  Truth doesn't hate itself that much, no matter how ugly it might be at any given moment.




> It's truly a shame that the kind of abject ignorance displayed in your comments is so prevalent in the world today.


Agreed, however let me point out that ignorance is only part of the problem, the attendant attitudes representing the real problem.  Ignorance can be cured relatively easily with the cultivation of truthful knowledge, but the only way that can come to pass is where there is an attitude of open and honest desire to gain that truth, no matter where it may lead.  That is the place where these toddlers in adult bodies fail so resolutely and why most of them will never be worth a damn even to themselves, much less anyone else.  They don't want truth, but only to believe their own lies and fantasies and to spew them angrily at anyone not on board with the agenda of bunnies, light, and unicorn poo.




> Makes me wonder if my own efforts at activism and education over the last 40+ years were a total waste.


They were not.  Even though the battle and even the war is inevitably lost, which now seems by far the likeliest end to which this will all come, the warrior fights.  He does so not because he concerns himself with winning and losing, but because he acts in pursuit of that which he knows to be right.  Does it suck to see freedom die before one's eyes?  Yes - at least to mine.  Does the inevitability of our complete loss of freedom mean I should no longer fight against it?  No.  I fight because to give in to it, no matter how certain Theire victory, is to do the wrong thing.  The warrior avoids doing the wrong things at all times and fights the good fight even in the face of no hope of winning.

It is a mindset and a choice pursuant thereto.  It takes guts and the willingness to eat bitter for however long it is required, even if for life.  Our mean contemporaries cannot fathom the attitude of the true warrior, seeing him as eccentric at best and more likely as completely insane and even stupid.  The Weakmen are shamed by his strength and resolve to remain faithful to that which is right.  They are embarrassed by their own lack of courage, faith to the good against evil, charity, and activeness, which are made sorely apparent in the presence of the Freeman.  The burn of it, however subliminal to the Weakman's shriveled and sadly narrowed consciousness, leads him to his bitter hatred of the Warrior Freeman.  Why else do we see thousands of young people on the streets of places such as Portland and Berkley, ironically spewing their bile in vented frustration while claiming to represent love and acceptance, as they attempt to reduce properties not their own to scorched and salted earth?

What is most important is that you have done what you know to be righteous, come what may in result.  Winning and losing are nothing.  Playing the game with smart faith to that which is righteous is all that matters, even unto one's own extinction.  There are subtleties there that I will not go into here unless asked to, but for the most part, this is all one needs know in life - how to negotiate the game with intelligent faith to that which is proper and worthy of the Warrior Freeman.

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## Republicanguy

What are you people on about.

The point is to bring a bit of justice to society, and make those who have money pay a little more especially the corporations and companies. While taxing the poorest. 

The financial sector needed regulating. 

If a centre left party can't reform society, then a libertarian party would only let those who are richer get richer, and those who are poor worst off. That is infantile thinking. Life isn't work hard and have only pennies and then just die. There needs to be some respect for people. 

If Libertarian offers this, it doesn't show it.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> If Libertarian offers this, it doesn't show it.



I disagree.  From National Philanthropic Trust:

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

More:






> Individual and Family Philanthropy
> 
>     Americans gave $373.25 billion in 2015. This reflects a 4.1% increase from 2014.1
>     Corporate giving in 2015 increased to $18.46 billion - a 3.9% increase from 2014.1
>     Foundation giving in 2015 increased to $57.19 billion - a 6.5% increase from 2014.1 
> 
>     In 2015, the largest source of charitable giving came from individuals at $268.28 billion, or 71% of total giving; followed by foundations ($57.19 billion/16%), bequests ($28.72 billion/9%), and corporations ($18.46 billion/5%).1
>     In 2015, the majority of charitable dollars went to religion (32%), education (15%), human services (12%), grantmaking foundations (11%), and health (8%).12
>     International affairs experienced the largest giving increase in 2015, receiving 17.5% more than the previous year.1
> ...




https://www.nptrust.org/philanthropi...ng-statistics/

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## Suzanimal

> What are you people on about.
> 
> The point is to bring a bit of justice to society, and make those who have money pay a little more especially the corporations and companies. While taxing the poorest. 
> 
> The financial sector needed regulating. 
> 
> If a centre left party can't reform society, then a libertarian party would only let those who are richer get richer, and those who are poor worst off. That is infantile thinking. Life isn't work hard and have only pennies and then just die. There needs to be some respect for people. 
> 
> If Libertarian offers this, it doesn't show it.



Why do you hate rich people's dogs?

-rep

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## Republicanguy

We all live in unfair world with exceptionally greedy people out there. You can't defend that, or corporations dodging taxation.

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## Suzanimal

> We all live in unfair world with *exceptionally greedy people out there*. You can't defend that, or corporations dodging taxation.


Indeed. Like the cowards who want to steal other people's money but are too cowardly to do it themselves so they send government thugs. 

_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._

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## Dr.3D

> Indeed. Like the cowards who want to steal other people's money but are too cowardly to do it themselves so they send government thugs. 
> 
> _You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._


I touched him for ya.

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## Suzanimal

> I touched him for ya.


Thanks 



Phrasing

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## Dr.3D

> Thanks 
> 
> 
> 
> Phrasing


Oops... sorry about that.    

Seems he's in competition with 56ktarget.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> We all live in unfair world with exceptionally greedy people out there. You can't defend that, or corporations dodging taxation.



You sound pretty greedy yourself.  Maybe you should stop dodging responsibility.

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## Republicanguy

How am I greedy, is it fair to live in a society where the poorest have no chance of owning a home. You and the libertarian crowd only believe that the billionaire lifestyle will somehow trickle down to everyone in the western world. You are wrong.

The libertarian system is immoral. Giving via charity isn't in anyway to conduct a society. America is an example in many places of a society with no social democracy, only keeping the wealthy propped up, and would be worse off under a Libertarian government, which would be weak. Franklin Roosevelt was correct about the policies of the New Deal. A pension for every American.

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## Republicanguy

When will you know the theory of libertarian policy will work? Where does it end.

Libertarian policies only benefit the well off.

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## Natural Citizen

> The libertarian system is immoral.


Be careful with this. A truly libertarian position is the product of a specific foundation for moral code which is the spiritual brotherhood of men under the common fatherhood of God. This is a concept which expresses the spiritual relationship of God to Man and, in the light thereof, of Man to Man and effectively government to man. As more and more people have flocked to libertarianism as a kind of fad, this foundation for moral code is gradually eroding. It's very easy for one to identify oneself as a libertarian  and at the same time not understand what that means. More and more these days it is observable that people want to run with the principles but too often the foundation for moral code is ignored. The foundation for moral code must be accepted or rejected as an Indivisible whole with the fundamental principles. Otherwise one is invalidating ones right of claim to liberty's benefits fully.

What we're seeing evolve are a lot of libertines who just think they're libertarian. Unfortunately, this is starting to kind of redefine the idea of libertarianism itself. Even this forum. 

Anyway. Just be careful not to make a false claim against libertarianism. Many times you have people who really aren't libertarian (although they think they are) making a bad name for libertarianism because poeple like you think you're arguing with a libertarian when you're really not. You end up saying bad things about libertarianism unfairly.

About 9 times out of 10, it's likely a libertine that you're arguing with. Not a libertarian.

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## Natural Citizen

> Libertarian policies


No such thing. 

Individual Liberty isn't defined by legislation. If anyone tells you that it is, then, they do not understand liberty. Monarchists try to pull that horse pucky a lot when they say Individual Liberty is best applied by a worldly King.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> How am I greedy[?],...


Using government to make others give you things.

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## Suzanimal

_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._

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## Suzanimal



----------


## Republicanguy

No libertarianism is immoral, you don't need religion and some bubble god to dictate how to behave that is fascism, like religion. Only a sense of some right and wrong.

Saying that taxation is theft in the twenty first century is ignorant. We don't live in 1917 or in 1817. 

Where does it end, when will you know the final theory a Libertarian society, freedom can't exist, anymore than the Communist's ownership of all land. This is simply wrong. No pay phone service for Armed forces, no shelters, nothing. Somehow charity will provide for it all.

A mad free for all, last person there takes all, winners and losers. 

Liberty is just a myth.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> No libertarianism is immoral, you don't need religion and some bubble god to dictate how to behave that is fascism, like religion. Only a sense of some right and wrong.
> 
> Saying that taxation is theft in the twenty first century is ignorant. We don't live in 1917 or in 1817. 
> 
> Where does it end, when will you know the final theory a Libertarian society, freedom can't exist, anymore than the Communist's ownership of all land. This is simply wrong. No pay phone service for Armed forces, no shelters, nothing. Somehow charity will provide for it all.
> 
> A mad free for all, last person there takes all, winners and losers. 
> 
> Liberty is just a myth.


_*yawn*_

Don't you have a dole queue to go stand in, prole?

(Or do they do that electronically now, for the convenience of parasitic moochers?)

----------


## Suzanimal

> No libertarianism is immoral, you don't need religion and some bubble god to dictate how to behave that is fascism, like religion. Only a sense of some right and wrong.
> 
> Saying that taxation is theft in the twenty first century is ignorant. We don't live in 1917 or in 1817. 
> 
> Where does it end, when will you know the final theory a Libertarian society, freedom can't exist, anymore than the Communist's ownership of all land. This is simply wrong. *No pay phone service for Armed forces*, no shelters, nothing. Somehow charity will provide for it all.
> 
> A mad free for all, last person there takes all, winners and losers. 
> 
> Liberty is just a myth.


LOL, that should be easy to cut. I haven't seen a pay phone in years.

----------


## Republicanguy

You are just self centered. 

A pay phone meaning years ago military officers could make calls to their family members for free as they were a part of the government. I was made aware as far back as the beginning of this decade, free calls to family didn't exist where in the Union or deployed overseas.

----------


## Republicanguy

> _*yawn*_
> 
> Don't you have a dole queue to go stand in, prole?
> 
> (Or do they do that electronically now, for the convenience of parasitic moochers?)


You can't defend liberty, you just can't. It is a deluded system, like the communist system even though people interchangeably say socialist-communist. When there are some differences. Sure there are communists who encircle themselves with socialist mindsets.

----------


## Suzanimal

_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._

----------


## Republicanguy

You don't care about society only the means for you, and you alone. Charity alone doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBYmeLBWjeI

----------


## Occam's Banana

> You are just self centered.


Says the spoiled and greedy little narcissist who wants to force others to give him stuff he wants ...




> Originally Posted by Occam's Banana
> 
> 
> _*yawn*_
> 
> Don't you have a dole queue to go stand in, prole?
> 
> (Or do they do that electronically now, for the convenience of parasitic moochers?)
> 
> ...


_*longer yawn*_

You didn't answer my questions.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> You don't care about society only the means for you, and you alone. Charity alone doesn't work.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBYmeLBWjeI


Charity alone works just fine.

The only "problem" with it is that greedy, self-centered narcissists like you can't mooch as much from it as you want.

----------


## Dr.3D

> _You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republicanguy again._


Well, as usual, I have to follow you around and take care of your light work.

----------


## Suzanimal

> You are just self centered.


So? 




> A pay phone meaning years ago military officers could make calls to their family members for free as they were a part of the government. I was made aware as far back as the beginning of this decade, free calls to family didn't exist where in the Union or deployed overseas.


Don't join the service if it doesn't pay enough to make a phone call. Doesn't sound like a good job, anyway.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Well, as usual, I have to follow you around and take care of your light work.


Thanks, Doc.

----------


## tod evans

> How am I greedy, is it fair to live in a society where the poorest have no chance of owning a home. You and the libertarian crowd only believe that the billionaire lifestyle will somehow trickle down to everyone in the western world. You are wrong.
> 
> The libertarian system is immoral. Giving via charity isn't in anyway to conduct a society. America is an example in many places of a society with no social democracy, only keeping the wealthy propped up, and would be worse off under a Libertarian government, which would be weak. Franklin Roosevelt was correct about the policies of the New Deal. A pension for every American.


Who gives even half a $#@! if the poorest own a home?

I'm in the work or starve sector, if you don't or won't work then watch your children starve, if you won't work wrap them in the same newsprint you call a blanket for yourself, if you won't work then spend your days picking nits from your childs hair as they wail in agony from disease and hunger...

Or integrate yourself into a neighborhood that will voluntarily support you.

To expect corporations or individuals you've never met to carry your water is absolutely insane.

----------


## Danke

> You don't care about society only the means for you, and you alone. Charity alone doesn't work.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBYmeLBWjeI

----------


## oyarde

> You are just self centered. 
> 
> A pay phone meaning years ago military officers could make calls to their family members for free as they were a part of the government. I was made aware as far back as the beginning of this decade, free calls to family didn't exist where in the Union or deployed overseas.


Officers free phone calls must have been a British Army thing . These days people have the net so the expense of overseas phone calls is eliminated .

----------


## oyarde

> So? 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't join the service if it doesn't pay enough to make a phone call. Doesn't sound like a good job, anyway.


 This is an excellent point . When I was in it did not pay well. LOL

----------


## Republicanguy

That is nasty attitude. It is just despicable the callousness on here. Beyond belief. 

I don't understand what motivates people with such a vile perception of how society should be. I get the point about one not needing to join a military, but the sad mindset about not having free contact years back is just sad. Those people fought or at least served their country. As much as I am a pacifist, service personnel at least deserved that.

I read this comment on the Guardian newspaper. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mment-98885437

----------


## Danke

> That is nasty attitude. It is just despicable the callousness on here. Beyond belief. 
> 
> I don't understand what motivates people with such a vile perception of how society should be. I get the point about one not needing to join a military, but the sad mindset about not having free contact years back is just sad. Those people fought or at least served their country. As much as I am a pacifist, service personnel at least deserved that.
> 
> I read this comment on the Guardian newspaper. 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mment-98885437

----------


## tod evans

> That is nasty attitude. It is just despicable the callousness on here. Beyond belief. 
> 
> I don't understand what motivates people with such a vile perception of how society should be.


Paying for the likes of you is what fosters anger and resentment.

That and paying for the government that insists on supporting the likes of you...

Get a job and pay your own way!

----------


## Republicanguy

https://youtu.be/ApYMfwA4a_A?t=2m18s

----------


## Republicanguy

> Paying for the likes of you is what fosters anger and resentment.
> 
> That and paying for the government that insists on supporting the likes of you...
> 
> Get a job and pay your own way!


You are a fool. The whole world isn't me or my problem, or my lack of achievement. You seriously ignorant. I suggest you watch Jeremy Corbyn's campaign rally.

----------


## tod evans

> You are a fool. The whole world isn't me or my problem, or my lack of achievement. You seriously ignorant. I suggest you watch Jeremy Corbyn's campaign rally.


Maybe som mour publik skol wud hep you..........

Good grief!

We've certainly got our share of wankers on this side of the pond but ya'll take the cake....

----------


## Republicanguy

Watch his rally. Stop being a scrooge about society. Nothing good will be gained from it. You'll just end up being deleted. It isn't worth the misery.

----------


## Origanalist

> You are a fool. The whole world isn't me or my problem, or my lack of achievement. You seriously ignorant. I suggest you watch Jeremy Corbyn's campaign rally.


Shirley you jest.

----------


## Danke

> https://youtu.be/ApYMfwA4a_A?t=2m18s


Do you work for the government?

----------


## Republicanguy

In 2010, there were nineteen million claiming some form of welfare. Ending any and all, would be a disaster. 

Libertarianism is just an extremist dream. Nothing good will be gained from it. Only misery, poorer people, wealthier individuals. Some of you here are very deluded, and pretty nasty. You just have had some very nasty experiences and couldn't want more for the future, due to your bitterness.

----------


## Republicanguy

> Do you work for the government?


I could only wish. I don't have the education for a job role in any government.

----------


## Danke

> I could only wish. I don't have the education for a job role in any government.


You don't have a pulse? A bot?

whatever "education" you have received up 'till now seems to have made you the ideal government drone.

----------


## Republicanguy

What bot?

----------


## Origanalist

> I could only wish. I don't have the education for a job role in any government.


I'm sure there's a role for you there somewhere. You have the perfect mindset.

----------


## tod evans

> Watch his rally. Stop being a scrooge about society. Nothing good will be gained from it. You'll just end up being deleted. It isn't worth the misery.


I'm not "watching" some socialist over there drone on...

I have actual work to do, you know the kind that one gets paid for....

"Deleted"  Okay come on....

----------


## Republicanguy

No, you people just don't want to see, health care, a welfare state to provide for those who are unemployed.

Your attitude isn't popular is would be lead to chaos. Corporations not paying any tax, just dodging it, so the country doesn't get their money to help pay for infrastructure. 

Liberty the way those support here, I'm sure would be a disaster.

----------


## Republicanguy

> I'm not "watching" some socialist over there drone on...
> 
> I have actual work to do, you know the kind that one gets paid for....
> 
> "Deleted"  Okay come on....


Yeah and many do. That doesn't mean a welfare state shouldn't exist. Just because you want to pocket everything. That is greedy, just like people expecting tips. A wage that sustains, and if enough to pay tax, fine. But anything else is just pure nastiness.

----------


## Danke

> Yeah and many do. That doesn't mean a welfare state shouldn't exist. Just because you want to pocket everything. That is greedy, just like people expecting tips. A wage that sustains, and if enough to pay tax, fine. But anything else is just pure nastiness.


Go troll somewhere else.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Yeah and many do. That doesn't mean a welfare state shouldn't exist. Just because you want to pocket everything. That is greedy, just like people expecting tips.


So we shouldn't work hard to earn money and save it to feed, educate, and give our children a nice start in life and save so we can retire one day, we should give it to the government to redistribute?




> A wage that sustains, and *if enough to pay tax*, fine.


You'd better hope like hell there are folks like us who earn enough to pay tax or your ass would starve.




> But anything else is just pure nastiness.


I think it's pure nastiness of you to think you're entitled to anything I've worked hard for.

----------


## Krugminator2

> No, you people just don't want to see, health care, a welfare state to provide for those who are unemployed.
> 
> Your attitude isn't popular is would be lead to chaos. *Corporations not paying any tax, just dodging it, so the country doesn't get their money to help pay for infrastructure. 
> *
> Liberty the way those support here, I'm sure would be a disaster.


1. Corporate taxes are only 11% of total tax receipts.


2. Infrastructure spending is only 2% of all federal spending. If you eliminated corporate taxes it would have zero effect on infrastructure spending.

3. Corporations don't pay taxes. People do. If you lowered the corporate tax rates to zero, that doesn't mean you would collect those taxes. If the corporate tax rate went to zero companies would either pay shareholders a dividend which would be taxed, they could reinvest and shareholders would pay a tax on increased capital gains, or they could pay their workers more and that  money that would be taxed.


There are people I genuinely have sympathy for. You are not one of those people. Giving you welfare is not an act of compassion. A kick in the ass would be an act of compassion. Western society tolerates underachievement, so you won't starve to death if you don't push yourself. But just for your own self-esteem. It is impossible for someone to be happy and to be leeching off the government.   Here is a guy with no arms and no legs being productive. http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2017/05/jon-morrow/

----------


## merkelstan

Obviously we need a welfood state, and a wellshoes state, and a wellentertainment state, and a wellgulag state as well, because how could the market provide those?

----------


## Danke

> 1. Corporate taxes are only 11% of total tax receipts.
> 
> 
> 2. Infrastructure spending is only 2% of all federal spending. If you eliminated corporate taxes it would have zero effect on infrastructure spending.
> 
> 3. Corporations don't pay taxes. People do. If you lowered the corporate tax rates to zero, that doesn't mean you would collect those taxes. If the corporate tax rate went to zero companies would either pay shareholders a dividend which would be taxed, they could reinvest and shareholders would pay a tax on increased capital gains, or they could pay their workers more and that  money that would be taxed.
> 
> 
> There are people I genuinely have sympathy for. You are not one of those people. Giving you welfare is not an act of compassion. A kick in the ass would be an act of compassion. Western society tolerates underachievement, so you won't starve to death if you don't push yourself. But just for your own self-esteem. It is impossible for someone to be happy and to be leeching off the government.   Here is a guy with no arms and no legs being productive. http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2017/05/jon-morrow/



yep, corporations don't pay taxes.  Consumers, employees and stakeholders do.

----------


## roho76

I think his contribution to society is too large to be talked about in history books and that's ok because it's for a good cause. He sparked, in me, an angst and yearning to be free. His affect on me cannot be measured, but it is there. His voice on stage during debates, that the entire planet was watching, was heard. This is why he had fans all around the world. The average joe knew nothing of the federal reserve, the leading producer of human misery, and now they do. Ron Paul's affect upon the world is immeasurable due to its immense scale. And that's ok.

----------


## Republicanguy

I don't know if the entire planet was watching, may be for his foreign policy mindset. Even people in my own country thought the Socialist party's leader of non intervention and peace was somehow a destruction of the UK.

But ultimately, security has been measured by somebody in charge.

As for domestic policy, Libertarian idea can't work. The only way in theory this could be tried, is if a new nation was formed with that belief that one is the sole provider for him or herself, that is the only way you so called Liberty nuts could try your experiment out. As for the world, it won't happen, I'm sure of it. Feel good reasons or not, people aren't that self centered for such a belief, it is too extreme. 

Cuba may of changed a little, but the communist party is finished. That was pretty poor.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> [... libertarians believe] that one is the sole provider for him or herself [...]


neg-rep for being a mealy-mouthed liar - as well as a greedy narcissist who wants to steal from other people in order to get what he wants (or rather, who wants other people to steal what he wants for him, because he's a coward as well as a parasitic moocher ...)

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Liberty is just a myth.


To you and billions of your fellow travelers, I'm quite sure it is.

Such is the human condition.

Those few of us with vision and foresight and the desire to see humanity reach it's fullest potential, to be something beyond a chess piece on some system of control's board, to have more than the crumbs off the Lord's table or a government dole "benefits" card, have had to fight and extinguish and shut up people like you since Moses' time.

Every great leap forward that mankind has made, happened because, for a brief shining moment in history, people like you were beaten back and human liberty was allowed to root.

Assuming I'm not talking to a sock puppet or "bot" of some kind, people like you, with a mindset like yours, foster the very worst in people, you amplify greed, envy, want, apathy, sly sneaking cunning and mental torpor. 

You preach that the end always justifies the means in the pursuit of getting "your fair share".

And because of that, the world has had sit in the corner with a flaming dunce cap on its head on more than occasion as the stink of the dead reached to heaven...

God *damn* you, and all you stand for and all your fellow travelers.

----------


## pcosmar

> You'll just end up being deleted. It isn't worth the misery.


I am not that easily deleted.

I am a witness of the Crime.

----------


## jllundqu

> That is nasty attitude. It is just despicable the callousness on here. Beyond belief. 
> 
> I don't understand what motivates people with such a vile perception of how society should be. I get the point about one not needing to join a military, but the sad mindset about not having free contact years back is just sad. Those people fought or at least served their country. As much as I am a pacifist, service personnel at least deserved that.
> 
> I read this comment on the Guardian newspaper. 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mment-98885437


I served in the Army.  I served 2 tours and 27 months in Iraq.  The only phonecalls I made were from a journalist's sat phone she let us use, and from donated pre-paid phone cards with 'minutes' on them.  They were donated by Americans, and not paid for by the tax payer.  Don't presume to denigrate the people of these forums on behalf of 'those who served.'  You are a coward.

Please for the love of god, you are not here to educate yourself.  You don't have the capacity to even begin to understand what rights are, where they come from, or the proper role of government.

Take your goose-stepping-government-controls-everything bull$#@! back to the fringes of the progressive left where it belongs.  Quit using up all our 1s and 0s here on RPF... a site dedicated to the principles of self-ownership, peace, and prosperity.

----------


## jllundqu

> To you and billions of your fellow travelers, I'm quite sure it is.
> 
> Such is the human condition.
> 
> Those few of us with vision and foresight and the desire to see humanity reach it's fullest potential, to be something beyond a chess piece on some system of control's board, to have more than the crumbs off the Lord's table or a government dole "benefits" card, have had to fight and extinguish and shut up people like you since Moses' time.
> 
> Every great leap forward that mankind has made, happened because, for a brief shining moment in history, people like you were beaten back and human liberty was allowed to root.
> 
> Assuming I'm not talking to a sock puppet or "bot" of some kind, people like you, with a mindset like yours, foster the very worst in people, you amplify greed, envy, want, apathy, sly sneaking cunning and mental torpor. 
> ...

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Didn't Mr. Paul just waste his time in government?



Didn't you just waste your time trying to instigate on this forum?  Or, is there something in it for you?

----------


## Republicanguy

You people here are just so selective, and stuck in another world.

You simply don't care. You are fine to go to work if you are employed and think everyone is just like you, and that is all you think, with a dose of pro life and superstition for some of you that tends to take over the libertarian crowd. So much contradiction.

----------


## tod evans

> You people here are just so selective, and stuck in another world.
> 
> *You simply don't care.* You are fine to go to work if you are employed and think everyone is just like you, and that is all you think, with a dose of pro life and superstition for some of you that tends to take over the libertarian crowd. So much contradiction.


Got me pegged.

I could give a $#@! if you eat or have a roof.

Friends and neighbors is as far as my generosity goes.

----------


## Republicanguy

You just keep thinking that when you don't have money, and there is no government there to help you, only your poor friends and family, who may or may not be around to help you. Except for charity which simply isn't good with no money.

I suggest you take a moderate and better path, in the long run its beneficial for all. Roosevelt wasn't wrong on his society outlook.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You just keep thinking that when you don't have money, and there is no government there to help you, only your poor friends and family, who may or may not be around to help you. Except for charity which simply isn't good with no money.
> 
> I suggest you take a moderate and better path, in the long run its beneficial for all. Roosevelt wasn't wrong on his society outlook.


All Taxation Is Theft.

----------


## Republicanguy

It doesn't matter. A society without it is worse off, it is sadly a price that has to be paid. 

Just look what would go. Don't be so principled about this, it isn't worth the mess over some blind loyalty to an out dated fact about taxation going back to the rotten barons who charged for tolls.

----------


## Suzanimal

> It doesn't matter.


It matters to me.




> A society without it is worse off,


Says who? Not me. 




> it is sadly a price that has to be paid.


By who? You? 




> Just look what would go. Don't be so principled about this, it isn't worth the mess over some blind loyalty to an out dated fact about taxation going back to the rotten barons who charged for tolls.


It's worth it to me. 

-rep

----------


## Origanalist

Are all Brits this stupid?

----------


## Dr.3D

> Are all Brits this stupid?


Well, what would you expect from that third world country?

----------


## Origanalist

> Well, what would you expect from that third world country?


I hear they're inbred and have rotten teeth.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I hear they're inbred and have rotten teeth.


And they seem to speak with an Australian accent.

----------


## Unregistered member

One justification or excuse, depending on your belief, for the govt. not to shut down or enact restrictions for websites known to harbor suspects of sexual exploitation, including sites prevalent with scams and fraud, is that their small percentages would resort to hiding on the web in complete anonymity, in communities where they are much harder to try and trace. As it stands now, traffickers of one kind or another have a better chance of being reported and-or getting caught when using commercial sites w/ standard policies and legal disclaimers. Do you keep them operating for the long run, for how long, and what is a tolerable level of crime until they need oversight by a regulatory body to rein in? Of course, none of this is easy to strategize.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> One justification or excuse, depending on your belief, for the govt. not to shut down or enact restrictions for websites known to harbor suspects of sexual exploitation, including sites prevalent with scams and fraud, is that their small percentages would resort to hiding on the web in complete anonymity, in communities where they are much harder to try and trace. As it stands now, traffickers of one kind or another have a better chance of being reported and-or getting caught when using commercial sites w/ standard policies and legal disclaimers. Do you keep them operating for the long run, for how long, and what is a tolerable level of crime until they need oversight by a regulatory body to rein in? *Of course, none of this is easy to strategize.*


No, it is certainly not easy to strategize.  I think we need a good straegeum.  What do you recommend?

----------


## tod evans

> No, it is certainly not easy to strategize.  I think we need a good straegeum.  *What do you recommend?*


At least three more fully funded and unaccountable government agencies...

It's for the children damn it!

----------


## Republicanguy

> It matters to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Says who? Not me. 
> 
> 
> 
> By who? You? 
> ...


What do you know, not you. Like you know it all. How arrogant can you get. To deprive society of some kind of safety net is wrong. It is pure callousness.

----------


## Suzanimal

> What do you know, not you.


I know me. I spent a good part of my 20's finding myself.




> Like you know it all.


I never claimed to know it all. 




> How arrogant can you get.


Depends on how much I've had to drink.




> To deprive society of some kind of safety net is wrong.


I applaud charity. 




> It is pure callousness.


Whatever...

BTW, who are the "rotten barons"?




> It doesn't matter. A society without it is worse off, it is sadly a price that has to be paid. 
> 
> Just look what would go. Don't be so principled about this, it isn't worth the mess over some blind loyalty to an out dated fact about taxation going back to the *rotten barons* who charged for tolls.

----------


## Suzanimal

Oh and I forgot

-rep

----------


## Dr.3D

> What do you know, not you. Like you know it all. How arrogant can you get. To deprive society of some kind of safety net is wrong. It is pure callousness.


It takes balls to work without a net.   Ask the daring young man on the flying trapeze.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Oh and I forgot
> 
> -rep


Wow, he did it... he's lower in rep than 56ktarget.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Wow, he did it... he's lower in rep than 56ktarget.


He did this to himself.

----------


## Dr.3D

> He did this to himself.


I think he was trying to get there.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I think he was trying to get there.


Probably his greatest accomplishment.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Probably his greatest accomplishment.


But he had a safety net.   Let's see him do something without one.

----------


## Suzanimal

> But he had a safety net.   Let's see him do something without one.


That's just callousness. It's not like he's a trapeze artist.

----------


## Dr.3D

> That's just callousness. It's not like he's a trapeze artist.


Well, if he was one, he would be doing something constructive with his time.   Entertaining people like that takes talent.

Then again, circuses are going the way of the dinosaur.  /* sniffs for elephants */

----------


## Occam's Banana

> How arrogant can you get. To deprive society parasitic moochers of some kind of safety net is wrong. It is pure callousness.


Fixed (with another neg-rep because you're such an arrogant, selfish, narcissistic, greedy and cowardly parasitic moocher).

----------


## Suzanimal

> Well, if he was one, he would be doing something constructive with his time.   Entertaining people like that takes talent.


I like the trapeze artists. In elementary school, we did a play and I was an acrobat. My stinky brother was a lion tamer and my mom bought him a whip. By the time the play rolled around my dad cut it off to about three inches and taped it back together for the play, lol. 




> Then again, circuses are going the way of the dinosaur.


Blame the clowns. They ruin everything.




> /* sniffs for elephants */


If I knew you irl, I'd send you this for Christmas. 

https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/ele...ivery-service/

----------


## Dr.3D

> I like the trapeze artists. In elementary school, we did a play and I was an acrobat. My stinky brother was a lion tamer and my mom bought him a whip. By the time the play rolled around my dad cut it off to about three inches and taped it back together for the play, lol. 
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the clowns. They ruin everything.
> 
> 
> 
> If I knew you irl, I'd send you this for Christmas. 
> ...


Wow, they have Elephant Trunk Boxers too.

----------


## Danke

What is wrong with you people? He has been here since 2010. And he only has four solid red bars.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Wow, they have Elephant Trunk Boxers too.


Very nice but those are expensive. The elephant $#@! is only 14.95.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Very nice but those are expensive. The elephant $#@! is only 14.95.


Yes, and it would bring back memories of my childhood.    

It's nice to know you care so much.    Thanks.

----------


## Suzanimal

> What is wrong with you people? He has been here since 2010. And he only has four solid red bars.


What's the T for at the top of your post?

----------


## Dr.3D

> What's the T for at the top of your post?


Maybe it stands for Trapeze?

----------


## Suzanimal

> Yes, and it would bring back memories of my childhood.    
> 
> It's nice to know you care so much.    Thanks.


I only send anonymous elephant $#@! to people I care about.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Maybe it stands for Trapeze?


Maybe. I didn't think of that. I can't imagine Danke using a happy word like trapeze, though.

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## Danke

> What's the T for at the top of your post?


what r u talking about, woman?

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## Suzanimal

I can only think of one word Danke would use that starts with a Q but I'm not gonna post it in the guest forum because I have manners. Two, actually, but I can't post the other one because it's banned.

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## The Rebel Poet

> It doesn't matter. A society without it is worse off, it is sadly a price that has to be paid. 
> 
> Just look what would go. Don't be so principled about this, it isn't worth the mess over some blind loyalty to an out dated fact about taxation going back to the rotten barons who charged for tolls.


Without principles, there is no logic; without principles, there is no truth; without principles, there is no reality.

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## The Rebel Poet

> Are all Brits this stupid?


No.

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## Danke

> I can only think of one word Danke would use that starts with a Q but I'm not gonna post it in the guest forum because I have manners. Two, actually, but I can't post the other one because it's banned.


I miss Josh, he would have given this woman many infractions bi now. Brian (sic) is worthless.

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## DGambler

Didn't read the whole thread, but, no, he did not... When I awoke, he was there and I found others of a similar mindset. I am indebted to him for bolstering my world view

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## Suzanimal

> I miss Josh, he would have given this woman many infractions bi now. Brian (sic) is worthless.


Bi? Brian?
Is your Y key stuck? 

Wash your hands before you touch the keyboard, ya filthy animal.

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## Danke

> Bi? Brian?
> Is your Y key stuck? 
> 
> Wash your hands before you touch the keyboard, ya filthy animal.



-rep

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## Suzanimal

> -rep


- - rep

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## P3ter_Griffin

I am thankful for how Ron decided to spend his time regardless of how he feels about it.  I don't think the idea of liberty would be dead if not for Ron but I think Ron managed to cast the seeds much farther then other liberty oriented individuals and thus made it more widely known.  I feel damn fortunate that I was dealing with my frustration towards government while Ron was running instead of Bernie or Trump in the same way I feel fortunate that weed and mushrooms were the go to drugs during my time in high school instead of the meth and heroin that is more prevalent today.

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## Occam's Banana

> You just keep thinking that when you don't have money, and there is no government there to help you, only your poor friends and family, who may or may not be around to help you. Except for charity which simply isn't good with no money.





> Charity alone doesn't work.





> The libertarian system is immoral. Giving via charity isn't in anyway to conduct a society.


SMGDH. Read the material below for an example of the "moral" system Parasiticmoocherguy thinks is so wonderful ... (you know, the one where charity "isn't good" and "doesn't work" and "isn't any way to conduct a society" ...) [See thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...s-life-support]




> *Britain's Top Court Won't Let Dying Baby Go to US*
> 
> The British parents of a dying 10-month-old have just one more chance to win permission to bring him to the US for experimental treatment. Chris Gard and Connie Yates filed an emergency appeal with the European Court of Human Rights after Britain's Supreme Court ruled against them on Thursday, reports the BBC. Their son, Charlie Gard, has an extremely rare and fatal disease called mitochondrial depletion syndrome, and they want to bring him to the US for treatment. But British health officials won't allow it [...]
> 
> "How can they do this," cried Yates as the decision was announced, per the Guardian. "They are lying. We are going to America." *The parents have raised more than $1.6 million on GoFundMe for the trip and medical bills.* [...]
> 			
> 		
> 
> http://www.newser.com/story/244032/b...-go-to-us.html





> *Under Socialized Medicine, The State Owns You*
> 
> [...] On April 11, 2017, the courts in the UK ruled that Charlie Gard, against the wishes of his parents, must be immediately removed from life support and left to die. [...]
> 
> In most cases of government run medical care, with such costs, the decision is final. Care is denied and you are sent on your way. In the case of wealthy individuals, medical tourism is always an option. Approximately 800,000 people every year fly to the United States and another 600,000 to Singapore to take advantage of cutting edge and high quality medical treatment that is not available anywhere else. But with the case of Charlie, the £1.2 million price tag would have been out of reach for a regular family. We would have had another footnote for Statists to prove how the poor get trampled under the foot of the rich and we would then go about our day.
> 
> *Except a major feature of the free market, private charity, kicked in wonderfully. Within a month of denial and discovery of the treatment, Charlie’s parents managed to raise the entire amount to pay for the treatment and trip to the United States.* In a normal world, this would have been the end of the story. Charlie would have gone to the United States, received his treatment and we would have discovered if his already dire situation could have been mitigated or treatment failed.
> 
> But the NHS decided, for whatever reason, to interfere with this process. When Charlie’s parents attempted to withdraw him for this treatment, Great Ormond Street, a children’s hospital in Greater London run by the NHS, rushed to the British High Court to block his parents from doing so. As government court systems are wont to do, they sided with themselves and denied the parents’ wishes for further private treatment and gave an official court order that Charlie is to be removed from life support and left to die. [...]
> ...


So ... the NHS & UK government wants to murder a baby and force his parents to stand by and do nothing, but according to Parasiticmoocher guy, "the libertarian system is immoral" ...

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## Republicanguy

> What is wrong with you people? He has been here since 2010. And he only has four solid red bars.


Sadly a number of users are ignorant, that is the problem. They think their on a high, whether you are, I don't know. But people are liars, they only care about themselves, even those self righteous do good religious people, better be upfront and state they aren't. Because either way its nonsense with plenty of prejudice.

I don't see it much here in the UK, but its every in the world. 

What can one state, none of us care, and it feeds off everyone. Only good examples of social programs, and governance can give example, oh but wait, nobody cares about that.

Everybody in life is just a freebie, and a free loader who isn't working, and they are all filfth blah blah, and all welfare is bad whether short term or long term. Yep. 

Centuries ago the barons used to charge a tax for people to go places, that is where taxation and the evil of it originates from.

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## Dr.3D

> Sadly a number of users are ignorant, that is the problem. They think their on a high, whether you are, I don't know. But people are liars, they only care about themselves, even those self righteous do good religious people, better be upfront and state they aren't. Because either way its nonsense with plenty of prejudice.
> 
> I don't see it much here in the UK, but its every in the world. 
> 
> What can one state, none of us care, and it feeds off everyone. Only good examples of social programs, and governance can give example, oh but wait, nobody cares about that.
> 
> Everybody in life is just a freebie, and a free loader who isn't working, and they are all filfth blah blah, and all welfare is bad whether short term or long term. Yep. 
> 
> Centuries ago the barons used to charge a tax for people to go places, that is where taxation and the evil of it originates from.


Charity stops being charity when it's done at the point of a gun.

Get the government out of it and it will take care of itself.  

If there were no government involvement, people would be more willing to provide charity.  

As it is now many don't think it's necessary to provide charity, because they are being robbed so the government can do the 'charity' for them.

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## Origanalist

> Sadly a number of users are ignorant, that is the problem. They think their on a high, whether you are, I don't know. But people are liars, they only care about themselves, even those self righteous do good religious people, better be upfront and state they aren't. Because either way its nonsense with plenty of prejudice.
> 
> I don't see it much here in the UK, but its every in the world. 
> 
> What can one state, none of us care, and it feeds off everyone. Only good examples of social programs, and governance can give example, oh but wait, nobody cares about that.
> 
> Everybody in life is just a freebie, and a free loader who isn't working, and they are all filfth blah blah, and all welfare is bad whether short term or long term. Yep. 
> 
> Centuries ago the barons used to charge a tax for people to go places, that is where taxation and the evil of it originates from.


Hey Parasiticmoocherguy, get your meds adjusted. You're damn near incomprehensible.

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## Dr.3D

> Hey Parasiticmoocherguy, get your meds adjusted. You're damn near incomprehensible.


Do you suppose that 3rd world country provides booze to it's moochers?

----------


## Origanalist

> Do you suppose that 3rd world country provides booze to it's moochers?


Maybe, but you can be sure they keep the idiots doped up. His posts are proof.

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## Occam's Banana

> Hey Parasiticmoocherguy, get your meds adjusted. You're damn near incomprehensible.


LOL. So I'm not the only one to wonder ...




> Originally Posted by Parasiticmoocherguy
> 
> 
> Mr Paul is an odd guy. I think deep down he  plays the game that the candidates have had to play, people the mass as  fools, but walk a careful line with the truth about facts.
> 
> 
> Ummm ... okay ... (just curious: is this your NHS-issued meds kicking in, or have you run out of them?)


Not to walk a careful line, but the truth about facts is that Parasiticmoocherguy has a strong tendency to gibber incoherently.

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## Suzanimal

> Sadly a number of users are ignorant, that is the problem. They think *their* on a high, whether you are, I don't know.


*theiyr're





> But people are liars, they only care about themselves, even those self righteous do good religious people, better be upfront and state they aren't. Because either way its nonsense with plenty of prejudice.


I'll pray for you.




> I don't see it much here in the UK, but its every in the world.


Ignorance? Do-gooder, self righteous, selfish but not admitting it people? Good spellers? What are you not seeing much in the UK but in "every in the world"? I don't know where that is - must be my ignorance.




> What can one state, none of us care, and it feeds off everyone.


Nope. People _do_ care.




> Only good examples of social programs, and governance can give example, oh but wait, nobody cares about that.


Name one that is cost effective and works.




> Everybody in life is just a freebie, and a free loader who isn't working, and they are all filfth blah blah, and all welfare is bad whether short term or long term. Yep.


HA! you do read my neg reps but you forgot a blah. It's three blahs.




> Centuries ago the barons used to charge a tax for people to go places, that is where taxation and the evil of it originates from.


Governments do it now and guess what? It's still evil.

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## Anti Federalist

> Sadly a number of users are ignorant, that is the problem. They think their on a high, whether you are, I don't know. But people are liars, they only care about themselves, even those self righteous do good religious people, better be upfront and state they aren't. Because either way its nonsense with plenty of prejudice.
> 
> I don't see it much here in the UK, but its every in the world. 
> 
> What can one state, none of us care, and it feeds off everyone. Only good examples of social programs, and governance can give example, oh but wait, nobody cares about that.
> 
> Everybody in life is just a freebie, and a free loader who isn't working, and they are all filfth blah blah, and all welfare is bad whether short term or long term. Yep. 
> 
> Centuries ago the barons used to charge a tax for people to go places, that is where taxation and the evil of it originates from.

----------


## Republicanguy

Farage is a controversial person and not to be used as example.

Social programs work, but will cost. Living in a corporate free for all just leads to madness, but if you believe people are what they are and deserve nothing, then you will see the way you do, and not care. I hope you don't go hungry one day, and realise what is missing from the society you live in. 

There is a lot of crassness on here.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Farage is a controversial person and not to be used as example.
> 
> Social programs work, but will cost. Living in a corporate free for all just leads to madness, but if you believe people are what they are and deserve nothing, then you will see the way you do, and not care. I hope you don't go hungry one day, and realise what is missing from the society you live in. 
> 
> There is a lot of crassness on here.


Well, I can see the concept of working for a living is somewhat missing from your society.  

Wouldn't we all love to have everything just handed to us?   

That's called freeloading, and is not acceptable in our society.   

Everybody needs to hunt for his own food and not sit around, hoping somebody else will do the hunting for them.

----------


## tod evans

> There is a lot of crassness on here.


Oh bugger off worthless wanker.

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## The Rebel Poet

> Farage is a controversial person and not to be used as example.


Sorry, didn't know I wasn't allowed to reference Farage. Any others who shall not be named?




> Social programs work, but will cost. Living in a corporate free for all just leads to madness, but if you believe people are what they are and deserve nothing, then you will see the way you do, and not care. I hope you don't go hungry one day, and realise what is missing from the society you live in. 
> 
> There is a lot of crassness on here.


"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, *every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all*. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain." - Frédéric Bastiat (The Law)

----------


## Krugminator2

> "Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, *every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all*. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain." - Frédéric Bastiat (The Law)



It is remarkable that is an actual quote from around 1850. The same exact horrible arguments against freedom are made all day, every day 170 years later.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Farage is a controversial person and not to be used as example.
> 
> Social programs work, but will cost. Living in a corporate free for all just leads to madness, but if you believe people are what they are and deserve nothing, then you will see the way you do, and not care. I hope you don't go hungry one day, and realise what is missing from the society you live in. 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a lot of crassness on here.



_You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice._

----------


## Dr.3D

This guy makes a post and then disappears for some time.  

He is probably waiting to see how many responses he gets.

I'm not going to bite the hook anymore.

----------


## Suzanimal

> This guy makes a post and then disappears for some time.  
> 
> He is probably waiting to see how many responses he gets.
> 
> I'm not going to bite the hook anymore.


I may not respond to every post but I neg rep every one. Sometimes I even try to neg rep the same post multiple times just to make sure I got it.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I may not respond to every post but I neg rep every one. Sometimes I even try to neg rep the same post multiple times just to make sure I got it.


Well, of course.

Gotta spread the rep ya know.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> .



Hey RG

Do you know Dr. No?  He posts on here.  I think he's British.

----------


## Republicanguy

The woman on here is clearly quite stupid. 

Nobody can defend liberty to its truest form, as the illusion so many on here like to dream too much of.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> The woman on here is clearly quite stupid.



You're the one who appears to be lacking.  First of all, anyone who has to call people names doesn't have much of an argument.  Second, I honestly can't even understand a lot of your writing.  It is very incoherent.  I can't believe you're in with the ZippyJuan-Dr. No group.  At least your fellow Brit, Dr. No, can string together coherent sentences.

----------


## Suzanimal

> The woman on here is clearly quite stupid. 
> 
> Nobody can defend liberty to its truest form, as the illusion so many on here like to dream too much of.


What woman?

----------


## Lamp

> What woman?


This woman right here^^^^^^

----------


## Suzanimal

> This woman right here^^^^^^


I've been called worse by better people.

----------


## Lamp

> I've been called worse by better people.


Oh well I don't think that. Just putting it out there.........

----------


## Occam's Banana

> The woman on here is clearly quite stupid. 
> 
> Nobody can defend liberty to its truest form, as the illusion so many on here like to dream too much of.

----------


## Origanalist

> 


Are those the moderators?

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## shakey1

The good doctor has always had the American people's best interests (whether they realized it or not) at heart while in office... his record speaks for itself. I was saddened when he retired from office. He is a true patriot.

----------

