# Lifestyles & Discussion > Science & Technology >  Air-Powered Car Coming to U.S. in 2009 to 2010 at Sub-$18,000, Could Hit 1000-Mile Ra

## Carole

There have  been alternatives to oil and gas for years. It just requires people with vision to invent them. 

Walt Disney was such a visionary for example.

Interesting reading.

Air-Powered Car Coming to U.S. in 2009 to 2010 at Sub-$18,000, Could Hit 1000-Mile Range

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...html?series=19

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## acptulsa

Cute.  Compressed air has been used to move many a steam locomotive, and in fact there were "fireless" steam locomotives over the years to work tunnels and such that took their steam from a stationary boiler.  No, hardly a new concept.

This is another one of those concepts that is only as green as the source of external power.  Run your air compressor off of electricity from a hydroelectric plant and you're spewing nothing--except, of course, for that once-compressed air.

The nice thing is the air tank is bound to be considerably lighter than the rack of batteries in an electric.

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## fr33domfightr

These are very kewl.  Now we can "stick it to the man."  


FF

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## pcosmar

In a very limited role and short distance urban setting this may have some use. 
I seriously doubt the real application and claimed power output.

I regularly use compressed air to run tools. I am aware of the power needed to compress air and how much air the tools use.
Once again this is an energy storage medium and NOT A FUEL.
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_archive.html

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## Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice

I wonder how many equivalent gallons of gas it takes to run the compressor to fill the car's tank.
It's probably more energy efficient than a combustion engine, but I question how much.

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## acroso

So...how many mpg?

How big is its tank!

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## CoreyBowen999

> So...how many mpg?
> 
> How big is its tank!


Didn't it say in there that for a tank of air and 8 gallons of fuel, you can get 800-1000 miles

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## Mahkato

> I wonder how many equivalent gallons of gas it takes to run the compressor to fill the car's tank.
> It's probably more energy efficient than a combustion engine, but I question how much.


It seems to make a lot more sense to have one nuclear power plant generating the electricity to run 1,000,000 air compressors (at night, when demand is low) than it is to have 1,000,000 gasoline powered internal combustion engines, each weighing 500+ lbs, and each of which must be individually fueled and maintained, driving themselves all over the country.

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## Alex Libman

I always knew there were countless economical alternatives to energy production and storage.  What I find depressing, however, is that it's India (and with some technologies South Korea and Japan) who are taking the technological lead here.  America had every advantage going into the 21st century, and it blew it.


---


[Off-topic section removed by Moderator]

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## pcosmar

> It seems to make a lot more sense to have one nuclear power plant generating the electricity to run 1,000,000 air compressors (at night, when demand is low) than it is to have 1,000,000 gasoline powered internal combustion engines, each weighing 500+ lbs, and each of which must be individually fueled and maintained, driving themselves all over the country.


That is possible.
Do you have an estimate of the time it would take to put all that in place.
All of the Air resupply stations, the infrastructure and vehicles.
Who is going to produce a million vehicles that have no means of refueling?
Who is going to place all these refuel stations (with all necessary investment) when there is only prototype vehicles?
That is the Catch 22.

That same nuclear plant could produce Hydrogen as well, and existing cars and homes could easily (and inexpensively) be retrofitted to use it.
The same drawback exists though, The supply infrastructure.

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## driller80545

> That is possible.
> Do you have an estimate of the time it would take to put all that in place.
> All of the Air resupply stations, the infrastructure and vehicles.
> Who is going to produce a million vehicles that have no means of refueling?
> Who is going to place all these refuel stations (with all necessary investment) when there is only prototype vehicles?
> That is the Catch 22.
> 
> That same nuclear plant could produce Hydrogen as well, and existing cars and homes could easily (and inexpensively) be retrofitted to use it.
> The same drawback exists though, The supply infrastructure.


I understand the truth of what you are saying here, but someone must take the lead before too much longer. Someone should figure the return on such an investment (probably already been done) and present it to the people with the means before the government decides to do it. 
I would like to invest my little bit in either one of these ideas because I believe that something is going to take off like wildfire soon. How to get the bandwagon started seems to be the hardest hurdle to leap right now.

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## pcosmar

> I understand the truth of what you are saying here, but someone must take the lead before too much longer. Someone should figure the return on such an investment (probably already been done) and present it to the people with the means before the government decides to do it. 
> I would like to invest my little bit in either one of these ideas because I believe that something is going to take off like wildfire soon. How to get the bandwagon started seems to be the hardest hurdle to leap right now.


There is progress towards Hydrogen. there are a couple refueling stations, and there will be more.
If you have means of investing, I would suggest setting up to refit vehicles.
Look at the LP gas conversions that are already available, make lots more.
From LP/Propane to Hydrogen is only a small adjustment. (fuel metering, timing).
If you are well off and can make a large long term investment, land and equiptment for fuel storage and delivery.

Me, I'm just a poor farmer. But I can turn wrenches if you want a conversion done.
I used to build these propane powered vehicles.

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## theantirobot

I'm pretty sure these cars are in production in india right now.  Although theirs are just compressed air, get about 100 miles on a charge, and a top speed of 68mph.

Let's get the cost of these things down to $3,000 and start a Revolution!

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## SLSteven

Hot Air? ....  Is Obama behind this?

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## driller80545

No, I can't invest enough to do anybody any good. I am a good mechanic out of necessity. I am frustrated because I know what you are saying is true and I don't want to see the public lose interest again. I feel like the time is ripe, if someone will take even one of these good ideas and develop it. I guess profit will have to be the motive since environmental destruction hasn't seemed to spur any speculators. With prices so high and the future seeming so bleak, I hope some greedy corp will start the ball rolling.

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## Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice

It's not even worth investing in a technology like this since you never know what legislation is coming down the pipeline in this socialist hellhole that will totally screw you after 10 years of intensive R&D. This car will probably need to double its weight to pass side-impact tests, thus negating any energy efficiency advantage it has over standard vehicles.

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## driller80545

> It's not even worth investing in a technology like this since you never know what legislation is coming down the pipeline in this socialist hellhole that will totally screw you after 10 years of intensive R&D. This car will probably need to double its weight to pass side-impact tests, thus negating any energy efficiency advantage it has over standard vehicles.


Point taken

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## SLSteven

> It's not even worth investing in a technology like this since you never know what legislation is coming down the pipeline in this socialist hellhole that will totally screw you after 10 years of intensive R&D. This car will probably need to double its weight to pass side-impact tests, thus negating any energy efficiency advantage it has over standard vehicles.


exactly!

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## pcosmar

There is a lot going on in these fields.
Fuel storage being one.
This is a good article that explains some of the problems/solutions being worked on.
*fuel storage*
http://www.rps.psu.edu/hydrogen/form.html

Fuel cells are another. This may or may not be the best way to use it, but it seems to be the direction of research.
I have my own opinions. I would like to see conversions.
But I am still hopeful, and watching the progress.

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## steph3n

I don't want to burst anyones bubble, but popmech and popsci have been touting many future items that NEVER make it, like the low cost flying cars, they have been on the cover 5+ times over the last 50 years never to make it to production.

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## pcosmar

> I don't want to burst anyones bubble, but popmech and popsci have been touting many future items that NEVER make it, like the low cost flying cars, they have been on the cover 5+ times over the last 50 years never to make it to production.


Exactly. 
An air storage tank the size of that entire car and with 500psi would not keep my air tools running for 30 minutes.
I don't see how it could produce the horsepower needed to move me down the road at 50 mph.

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## Knightskye

> In a very limited role and short distance urban setting this may have some use.


Right, because 125 miles is "short".  Plus, it only takes a couple minutes to refill, if you have a really long trip.




> I seriously doubt the real application and claimed power output.


Why don't you test drive it first, smart guy? 

http://www.theaircar.com/acf/who-we-are/who-we-are.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4t1...eature=related

It's very real and very practical.  About 125 miles per charge, and a couple dollars to fill.

I can't wait.

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## Mahkato

I don't think range and refueling stations are that important, since most of the driving most people do is short distances around town or commuting. If a car has 100 mile range and can be "refueled" at home (with an air compressor, for example), it would be a suitable second vehicle for someone who, say, commutes 20 miles.

Also, if an air car could be designed with easily removable tanks that aren't too heavy, such as the size of a standard LP tank, you could "refuel" at any gas station that stocked full tanks by trading in your empty.

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## ItsTime

I would buy one. Good points Jonathan

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## pcosmar

> Right, because 125 miles is "short".  Plus, it only takes a couple minutes to refill, if you have a really long trip.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you test drive it first, smart guy? 
> 
> http://www.theaircar.com/acf/who-we-are/who-we-are.html
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov4t1...eature=related
> ...


I see drawings and claims and sales pitch. Not any proof. The car shown would not survive my driveway, let alone my needs.
As I said, it may be OK for a city dweller with a limited travel distance, if it works as advertised.
I have many doubts.
It sounds like someone selling Magic beans.

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## Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice

The simplest solution is to learn bi-location from Tibetan monks. I wonder if the government would tax quantum highways in that case?

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## kombayn

http://www.greasecar.com/

It would solve everything, but that means it would be virtually inexpensive!!!

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## TastyWheat

My money is still on the Aptera vehicles.  They at least addressed the drag and wind resistance issue.  Most cars are as streamlined as a brick.  Neither of these technologies will be suitable for long distance or heavy duty usage though.

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## asgardshill

Just don't run out of "*gas*" ...

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## Bruno

Interestingly, this appears to be from the same parent company that just made a deal with Nielsen, the ratings company, to outsource jobs to India.  Lou Dobbs just had a segment on it yesterday how U.S. Nielsen workers have to train their Indian replacements as part of their severence package.  

http://loudobbs.tv.cnn.com/
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6214118.html

Maybe McCain should have done a little more research on what already exists and is coming down the pike before he offered $300 million of our taxpayer dollars.   Or perhaps he has stock in Tata he wants to see dividends on?  Pure speculation, of course.

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## jbuttell

regenerative breaking on something like this could work well...

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## tpreitzel

> I always knew there were countless economical alternatives to energy production and storage.  What I find depressing, however, is that it's India (and with some technologies South Korea and Japan) who are taking the technological lead here.  America had every advantage going into the 21st century, and it blew it.
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> [Off-topic section removed by Moderator]


America blew it? HaHaHa. Those political forces controlling the US didn't blow anything. Those forces LOVE captive markets. J.P. Morgan is their hero. If I were to relate even SOME of the evidence supporting my statement, I could probably write a dozens of pages of source material. Inventors like Tesla (radiant energy -- pulsed), Moray (harmonic cosmic radiation -- radiant energy receiver), Brown, etc. have provided alternatives to the Big Oil for nearly a century. No, in the minds of the greedy military-industrial establishment, American didn't blow anything.  Compressed air is an interesting storage medium, but free sources of energy  have always been available to exploit. Tesla was reportedly running an electric car at high speeds about 75 years ago:

http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1062

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## Truth Warrior

Can it be fitted to scrub the air of CO2 ............................ *IF* necessary.

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## Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice

> Can it be fitted to scrub the air of CO2 ............................ *IF* necessary.


Plant killer!

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## AFM

> Hot Air? ....  Is Obama behind this?


ZING
Fried em!

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## AFM

I've been lighting my farts as a propulsion mechanism for months now.  Talk about FREE ENERGY

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## Truth Warrior

> Plant killer!


That was a big "if".

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## Knightskye

Might be cheaper to send delegates to conventions.  We wouldn't need chip-ins for gas money. 




> I see drawings and claims and sales pitch. Not any proof.


Well, the two YouTube links I posted go to videos that show the car moving.  Though you only mention drawings and a sales pitch, so maybe you didn't even watch them.

Here's another video.  Looks like they've managed to fool the Discovery Channel 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDqcu8oJ4&NR=1




> The car shown would not survive my driveway, let alone my needs.


Do you set off explosives in your driveway?

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## Hiki

> I always knew there were countless economical alternatives to energy production and storage.  What I find depressing, however, is that it's India (and with some technologies South Korea and Japan) who are taking the technological lead here.  America had every advantage going into the 21st century, and it blew it.


Who the $#@! really cares where the technology comes from? As long as it comes and saves us from this energy-crisis, I'm a happy guy.

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## Ozwest

> I wonder how many equivalent gallons of gas it takes to run the compressor to fill the car's tank.
> It's probably more energy efficient than a combustion engine, but I question how much.


I am not sure.

But compressors are usually run on electricity.

They are powerful and efficient.

Mechanics, tire distributors, and panel shops are already aware of this.

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## Kalifornia

Wake me up when we start building cars to run on flywheel batteries.  Way more efficient than electrochemical batteries, and capable of taking advantage of gyroscopic balancing.  

Doh.

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## Knightskye

> Wake me up when we start building cars to run on flywheel batteries.  Way more efficient than electrochemical batteries, and capable of taking advantage of gyroscopic balancing.  
> 
> Doh.


So, we shouldn't use a cell phone until it looks really cool and is very efficient?

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## Renegades

> I see *drawings and claims* and sales pitch. Not any proof. The car shown would not survive my driveway, let alone my needs.
> As I said, it may be OK for a city dweller with a limited travel distance, if it works as advertised.
> I have many doubts.
> It sounds like someone selling Magic beans.


Hey I see that in your post too you old farmer! 
Did you even watch the videos? The creators themselves discuss how it operates, and refuels.
I'm also sure they have thought about most of the obstacles you have, and discussed possible solutions to these scenarios. There will be challenges, this is a basic factor of life.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Once again this is an energy storage medium and NOT A FUEL.


Compressed air as a storage medium has always been interesting. Especially when applied to wind power. Imagine everyone having a wind turbine to drive a compressor and capture energy directly as compressed air to be used in a compressed air car. Seems like it would simplify the whole process, although the amount of power that could be captured that way might not be enough for a timely "fill-up". Any energy helps though.

And wind farms could capture energy and store it as compressed air. It seems like a lot of wind farms are idle when the wind is not in a "suitable" range, or there is no immeadiate need for electricity. Seems like a compressor could run at almost any wind speed, and could store that energy as compressed air.

Who knows if it's workable?

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## Knightskye

Hmm.

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## benhaskins

http://www.valcent.net/s/Home.asp

http://www.valcent.net/i/misc/Vertigro/index.html

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...lec&id=6048192

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## Kraig

> I wonder how many equivalent gallons of gas it takes to run the compressor to fill the car's tank.
> It's probably more energy efficient than a combustion engine, but I question how much.


Yeah but if you had nuclear reactors powering our electric grid you could  compress all the air you wanted without using any gasoline.

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## Brian4Liberty

> http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...lec&id=6048192



Algae for fuel? Sounds good. Anything is better than food crops. Didn't Asimov always predict yeast would be the source of food and energy? There has to be some workable ideas out there.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Imagine everyone having a wind turbine to drive a compressor and capture energy directly as compressed air to be used in a compressed air car.


I was thinking of a home wind-compressor for fill-ups, but why not put a pop-up one on the car too. Park in a windy place, and fill-up a little.

Toyota is finally putting solar panels on cars. They should put some on the hood too. Every little bit helps:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/97794

Or even on the rear window:

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/133/

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## Brian4Liberty

Update: nothing on the market yet. And it looks like they have scaled back their options...




> Gasoline is already the fuel of the past. The search is on, but what will the fuel of the future be?  Zero Pollution Motors, LLC predicts air compression.
> 
> Zero Pollution Motors (ZPM) is poised to produce the first compressed air-powered car for sale in the United States by 2nd half 2015.
> 
> The AIRPod vehicle, developed by MDI (www.mdi.lu), is the solution to urban pollution and urban mobility.  With its small size, a tiny price, zero pollution, and a fun and futuristic design, AIRPod marks a turning point in the range of urban vehicles.   It is a real breath of fresh air in cities and the prelude to travel without pollution.
> 
> http://zeropollutionmotors.us/

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## Brian4Liberty

Always a year or two away...




> The car that runs on AIR: Peugeot reveals plans for hybrid set to hit the streets next year
> 
> Peugeot has revealed plans to begin selling the first air powered car next year.
> 
> Based on a Peugeot 208, it will combine a normal engine with a radical new system that runs on compressed air.
> 
> The firm says the car could reduce petrol bills by 80% when driven in cities.
> 
> The system works by using a normal internal combustion engine, special hydraulics and an adapted gearbox along with compressed air cylinders that store and release energy. This enables it to run on petrol or air, or a combination of the two.
> ...

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## Henry Rogue

> Update: nothing on the market yet. And it looks like they have scaled back their options...


Birth control on wheels.

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## Henry Rogue

> So, we shouldn't use a cell phone until it looks really cool and is very efficient?


My first cell phone. Great for construction because it could handle a lot of abuse. You could use it for self defense in a pinch, grab it by the antenna and swing that brick.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Birth control on wheels.


They you will have the kids with the new fad of turning light cars over for fun.

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## eduardo89

> Air-Powered Car Coming to U.S. in 2009 to 2010 at Sub-$18,000, Could Hit 1000-Mile Range


That didn't exactly happen, did it?

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## dannno

> My first cell phone.


Holy $#@!, you're Zack Morris??

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## pcosmar

> That didn't exactly happen, did it?


I was wondering when I saw this old thread.

I haven't seen them sweeping the market  or even on the side of the roads.

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## HVACTech

> I was wondering when I saw this old thread.
> 
> I haven't seen them sweeping the market  or even on the side of the roads.


gasoline engines are air pumps dude.
all of the heat produced is wasted, except to keep your feet warm of course.
only the pneumatic force is used.
the same goes for gas turbines. (jet engines for the mundanes)

methinks you would like my 89 dodge ram. 
it has a really good air pump.

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## pcosmar

> gasoline engines are air pumps dude.
> all of the heat produced is wasted, except to keep your feet warm of course.
> only the pneumatic force is used.
> the same goes for gas turbines. (jet engines for the mundanes)
> 
> methinks you would like my 89 dodge ram. 
> it has a really good air pump.



I have known people to convert Gas engines into compressors.

and have used air tools in my trade for years. I don't see compressed air powering a vehicle very far or very long before running out of air.

Maybe with a Huge compressor and a really long hose. but that seems counter productive.

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## Brian4Liberty

My compressed water car will be available in late 2014 or early 2015...

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