# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns >  Libertarian national convention May 27–30 in Orlando (Official thread)

## jct74

This can sort of be the official thread, for anyone that wants to follow it closely.





> *Libertarian National Convention to be held May 27–30 in Orlando*
> 
> Tuesday, May 17, 2016
> 
> Convention theme:  #LegalizeFreedom
> 
> WASHINGTON, D.C. —  All eyes will be on the Libertarian Party National Convention from May 26 through May 30 at the Rosen Centre Hotel in Orlando. With the theme, “Legalize Freedom,” the convention will draw delegates from across the country to select the candidate who will challenge the Republican and Democratic nominees, whose front-runners are both candidates with the lowest approval ratings ever to represent their respective parties.
> 
> “The Libertarian Party is poised to have a breakout year,” said LNC Chair Nicholas Sarwark, “in an election when the two old parties are putting up candidates with some of the poorest public-opinion numbers in any modern election. In light of voters’ extreme disillusionment, I anticipate this will be one of our most exciting conventions ever.”
> ...


http://www.lp.org/news/press-release...-30-in-orlando

----------


## afwjam

Live stream here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1

----------


## jct74

> *Libertarian Party kicks off presidential nominating convention*
> 
> Thursday, May 26, 2016
> 
> ORLANDO  On the eve of the opening of the 2016 Libertarian Nominating Convention, a record 985 delegates and 344 alternate delegates hailing from 50 states plus D.C. were credentialed to select the partys presidential and vice presidential nominees, possibly adopt changes to the partys platform, and elect top party officials.
> 
> The convention will be called to order at 8:40 a.m. Friday, May 27 and adjourn approximately noon on Monday, May 30.
> 
> 2016 is proving to be a banner year for the Libertarian Party:
> ...


http://www.lp.org/news/press-release...ing-convention

----------


## jct74

> *Chair's Proposed Business Meeting Agenda*
> 
> The Chair's Proposed Business Meeting Agenda is provided below.
> 
> For a comprehensive daily and hourly schedule of events, including the many inspiring seminars and trainings offered throughout the convention please visit our Convention Schedule. (Last updated 5/22/16).
> 
> --
> 
> *Thursday, May 26, 2016*
> ...


http://libertarian.nationbuilder.com/agenda

----------


## afwjam

I support McAfee for the nomination, he gets the attention and has the ability to articulate libertarian principles simply. I'm thousands of miles away and not a delegate, however if I were a delegate in Florida, at this point I would form any coalition with any of the other campaigns besides Johnson/Weld. Compromise is what got us into this $#@!, only revolution will get us out. We must not compromise our principles, it is clear Johnson/Weld do not have these principles on a root level. I'm not talking about low taxes and gay marriage, I'm talking fundamental principles upon which all political philosophy should come from. We own ourselves, we have no right to steal and aggress against others and we should keep our word and be honest. 

We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their creater with certain inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

----------


## jct74

Here's a list of speakers, I recognize a lot of these names.  Kokesh, Tom Woods, Jim Rogers some of the bigger ones.




> Ryan Adams | Wendy Adams | Danielle Alexandre | Robert Arnakis | Frank Atwood | Rev. Larry Beane | Ruth Bennett | Brett Bittner | Craig Bowden | Andy Burns | M Carling | Jeffrey Carson | Michael Cloud | Kirk Coco | William Coley | Lauren Daugherty | Alicia Dearn | Larry Elder | Bruce Fein | Kevin Fortune | Major Neill Franklin | Judge Jim Gray | Sam Goldstein | Sharon Harris | Daniel Hayes | Jeff Hewitt | Carla Howell | Dan Johnson | Joseph Johnson | Joshua Katz | Robin Koerner | Adam Kokesh | Eva Kosinski | Monica Lucas | Ric McCluskey | Joe McKenzie | Jeremy McLellan | Gary Miliefsky | Mark Miller | Tim Moen | Tatiana Moroz | John Moore | Avens O'Brien | Jenny Ojageer | Jordan Page | Michele Poague | Tom Regnier | Jim Rogers | Roger Roots | Larry Sharpe | Tylor Slinger | Alex Snitker | Wendell Stephenson | Jeffrey Tucker | Tim Turner | Lyn Ulbricht | Carole Beth Vest | Lily Tang Williams | Tom Woods


http://libertarian.nationbuilder.com/speakers

----------


## fisharmor

> Here's a list of speakers, I recognize a lot of these names.  Kokesh, Tom Woods, Jim Rogers some of the bigger ones.
> 
> 
> 
> http://libertarian.nationbuilder.com/speakers



I sure hope we get video of some of those!

----------


## jct74

> Live stream here:
> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1


Thanks!  Also I checked the CSPAN schedule and they will be covering at the following times:


*Libertarian Party Presidential Debate* - Saturday 8 to 10 pm ET

*Libertarian Party National Convention, Day 2* - Sunday 9:45 am to noon ET


also Weigel is at the convention and he will be phoning in to CSPAN Sunday morning at 7:05 am ET

----------


## jct74

some media coverage...




> *Libertarian Party set to pick nominee at convention*
> 
> By Eli Watkins, CNN
> Fri May 27, 2016
> 
> (CNN) They get the bronze medal every four years in what is really a two-person race.
> 
> That's what it must feel like to be a third-party candidate in a two-party country.
> 
> ...


read more:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/27/politi...ion/index.html

----------


## jct74

> *Why the Libertarian Party convention matters*
> 
> By W. JAMES ANTLE III
> 5/26/16 12:01 AM
> 
> The contested convention that could provide conservatives with someone to vote for in November besides Donald Trump is finally here.
> 
> It's just not the Republican National Convention. The Libertarian Party is gathering in Orlando, Fla., over Memorial Day weekend to choose its 2016 presidential nominee. With unpredictable (some might say quirky) party activists and no real primary system, there's no guarantee what the delegates will decide.
> 
> ...


read more:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wh...rticle/2592316

----------


## jct74

> *Unprecedented Excitement at Libertarian Party Convention*
> 
> By MIKE SCHNEIDER, ASSOCIATED PRESS
> May 27, 2016, 2:58 PM ET
> 
> The deep unpopularity of both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton has led to an unprecedented level of excitement at the Libertarian Party's presidential nominating convention in Orlando this year.
> 
> Libertarian officials said Friday as the four-day convention began that 985 delegates and 344 alternates were attending from all 50 states  a record. Dues-paying members have increased by 30 percent since the beginning of the year, Libertarian officials said.
> 
> ...


read more:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...ntion-39431907

----------


## jct74

Dave Weigel is at the convention, you can follow his adventures on his twitter account:
https://twitter.com/daveweigel

Also official account for Libertarian Party:
https://twitter.com/LPNational

Official hashtag for this year's convention is #LegalizeFreedom:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/legalize...fault&src=hash

----------


## afwjam

This weekend will be when the viewer count for Liberty campaigns forum surpasses the viewers of the Trump/Clinton establishment forums on RPF. Let's hope the delegates in Florida make the right choice and it stays this way here.

----------


## undergroundrr

> Live stream here:
> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1


Thanks for the ustream link.  I'll try to follow this.  Seeing the 1991 Libertarian National Convention on C-Span was a game changer for me personally.  But dang, poor Andre Marrou. They couldn't have picked a more ill-fated guy.

----------


## Michael Landon

> Here's a list of speakers, I recognize a lot of these names.  Kokesh, Tom Woods, Jim Rogers some of the bigger ones.
> 
> 
> 
> http://libertarian.nationbuilder.com/speakers


Where's Wayne Allan Root and Bob Barr? [/sarcasm]

- ML

----------


## William Tell

> Where's Wayne Allan Root and Bob Barr? [/sarcasm]- ML


They traded them for Weld.

----------


## Michael Landon

> They traded them for Weld.


Hopefully we received a high end prospect in return.

- ML

----------


## jct74

> I sure hope we get video of some of those!


here's some Kokesh video, kind of $#@!ty audio though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-74kvGt5Ds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wYkyS7bPdw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QlebnnQVQE

----------


## jct74

Gary interviewed on MSNBC from the convention




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gB_VpckpZ8

----------


## jct74

Some MSNBC reporting from the convention.  2nd video they interview LP chairman and discuss Koch bro rumors.

----------


## jct74

This channel is uploading a lot of stuff about the convention including capturing the live streams

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTG...7ztVQbQ/videos

----------


## jct74

CNN at the convention




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o55jTdOhJps

----------


## undergroundrr

Ewwww

----------


## jct74



----------


## Suzanimal

Gary Johnson non answer on the minimum wage. Petersen gave a good answer in his dramatic reading voice.

----------


## opal

Johnson is delusional - nobody was going without healthcare before Obama.. delusional!

----------


## opal

Petersen gets cheers for "It's time to kill the bank" re the fed

----------


## Krugminator2

> The free market bankrupted the coal industry? 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one watching this?


I am a political junkie and watching.

It is as if Johnson took a dare to see how much he get away with and still convince people to support him.

----------


## eleganz

> I'm watching.. and I think Perry's killing it.
> McAfee is doing his thing.. effectively
> Johnson.. he lost me in 2012
> Petersen - loud and obnoxious.. can't count to 30
> Feldman.. makes good points.. charmless


Dr. Perry is definitely bringing something fresh to the old boring talking points of libertarians but he is a pretty quirky character and hard to take seriously from an electoral point of view.

McAfee's responses are always confident, consistent, calm, and reasonable.  He would be a damn great nominee and leader.

Wtf is up with Petersen?  He makes great points but the fake personality just kills his likability.

----------


## opal

> I am a political junkie and watching.
> 
> It is as if Johnson took a dare to see how much he get away with and still convince people to support him.


Sounds legit

is it just me or is everything Johnson says sounding kind of whiney?

----------


## opal

Daryl just corrected Peterson on the Iran deal.. and Petersen got cheers anyway

wft

----------


## Suzanimal

> Dr. Perry is definitely bringing something fresh to the old boring talking points of libertarians but he is a pretty quirky character and hard to take seriously from an electoral point of view.
> 
> McAfee's responses are always confident, consistent, calm, and reasonable.  He would be a damn great nominee and leader.
> 
> *Wtf is up with Petersen?  He makes great points but the fake personality just kills his likability.*


I'm not sure what's up with the voice. 

I agree with your other points.

----------


## andy2044

In what universe is Gary Johnson the best libertarian to represent the party?

----------


## opal

Feldman has started his dance behind the podium.. I think he needs a stool..

----------


## opal

> In what universe is Gary Johnson the best libertarian to represent the party?


not mine

----------


## Suzanimal

Is it me or is Petersen starting every answer with a meme?

----------


## andy2044

I'm so disappointed in the party. By nominating Johnson, they'll be going against what Ron said just a few hours ago: Don't give up purity for votes.

Yet AP is young and just speaks in bumper sticker slogans that come off as fake.... and McAfee is in 4th place.

----------


## opal

It's going to be hard to call a winner on this one.. the libertarian party is winning though.

----------


## andy2044

That's my biggest problem with him. He doesn't answer questions, he gives a fake slogan of no substance that'll get applause for some reason.

----------


## opal

> Is it me or is Petersen starting every answer with a meme?


it's not just you

----------


## younglibertarian

Ap and McAfee winning in my opinion.

----------


## younglibertarian

McAfee making good points on foreign policy.

----------


## andy2044

> Ap and McAfee winning in my opinion.



I agree, though there's something about AP that I don't like. And given McAfee's current numbers, I doubt he's got a shot.

----------


## Suzanimal

Johnson: Reduce the military by 20%
Perry: Let 'em get by on what they can raise in donations and bake sales
Peteresen: Audit the Pentagon.

----------


## opal

wow.. McAfee just answered a question on the UN differently than on isidewith.com
I go there a lot

----------


## Suzanimal

Oh FFS, North Korea is the greatest threat?

----------


## opal

Mark.. the UN is like our facebook  LOL

----------


## afwjam

McAfee/AP ticket, honorable mention to Perry for purity and intelligence but the vampire look and delivery won't work.

----------


## opal

Gary should be the ambassador to Canada

----------


## younglibertarian

> Mark.. the UN is like our facebook  LOL



Loved that xD

----------


## RJ Liberty

The stream was working for me, but now it's all choppy.

Dr. Feldman had a good joke about the UN.

----------


## opal

> McAfee/AP ticket, honorable mention to Perry for purity and intelligence but the vampire look and delivery won't work.


John didn't get over the flu all the way and it's coming back to get him.. Tiffany (his campaign manager) said he's carrying an inhaler and cough drops

----------


## andy2044

> McAfee/AP ticket, honorable mention to Perry for purity and intelligence but the vampire look and delivery won't work.


Honestly, I kinda wish McAfee drops Weiss and joins forces with AP to win support from both camps and stop GJ

----------


## opal

is this the stream you're using
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1

----------


## younglibertarian

> McAfee/AP ticket, honorable mention to Perry for purity and intelligence but the vampire look and delivery won't work.



Yes.


LOL PERRY ON WHICH STD HE WANTS :P

----------


## opal

uhoh.. here comes the dessention

----------


## opal

My ideal ticket is McAfee / Perry

----------


## RJ Liberty

> is this the stream you're using
> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1


Yes.

----------


## andy2044

Someone call out GJ for Weld's position on gun control!!

----------


## opal

if Johnson was forbidden to say "governor of Arizona" and Johnson was forbidden from quoting the founding fathers.. they would have nothing to say.

----------


## opal

Petersen 2024

----------


## Suzanimal

> if Johnson was forbidden to say "governor of Arizona" and Johnson was forbidden from quoting the founding fathers.. they would have nothing to say.

----------


## Suzanimal

McAfee, LOL!

on marriage

----------


## younglibertarian

Iffy stances on abortion imo

----------


## opal

> McAfee, LOL!
> 
> on marriage


Have you seen his vid with the 7 women he lived with in Belize?  He's hysterical

----------


## Suzanimal



----------


## younglibertarian

> McAfee on Civil Rights act? Did he answer that?



He said no

----------


## opal

> McAfee on Civil Rights act? Did he answer that?


he implied no.. he wouldn't have voted for it.... because it did no good

----------


## younglibertarian

Licenses for toast!

----------


## opal

more booing for Gary.. I hope the delegates are listening

----------


## afwjam

> McAfee on Civil Rights act? Did he answer that?


Yes, great answer, love.

----------


## andy2044

Hopefully the delegates wake up to Johnson with that licensing answer

----------


## Suzanimal

> more booing for Gary.. I hope the delegates are listening


As Governor of New Mexico....

----------


## andy2044

> As Governor of New Mexico....


Drink!

----------


## opal

McAfee's closing is going to blow minds

----------


## Suzanimal

> Drink!


*sips Franzia*

----------


## opal

Oh holy $#@! .. Mark is gonna blowwwww

----------


## andy2044

> McAfee's closing is going to blow minds

----------


## andy2044

LOL @ Feldman

----------


## Suzanimal

Feldman's closing is awesome.

----------


## andy2044

So now that the debate is over. What are you impressions? Do you think this will change tomorrow's outcome?

----------


## opal

The speaker now.. reminds me of pee wee Herman

----------


## Suzanimal



----------


## andy2044

> Just going by a lot of libertarian statements on other boards.. if Johnson wins tomorrow, he will get more republican votes than libertarian votes come November.


And is that a risk the LP delegates and establishment are willing to make?

----------


## opal

> I thought Johnson kissed John.


if I could remember which debate it was, I'd grab you the youtube vid... it wasn't Vegas

----------


## opal

> And is that a risk the LP delegates and establishment are willing to make?


Earlier in his nomination speech, McAfee said he's pretty sure nobody thinks the libertarian is going to win the general and the goal of the party should be to get the most outspoken dooer driving the boat so to speak - I think that probably hurt him

----------


## andy2044

> if I could remember which debate it was, I'd grab you the youtube vid... it wasn't Vegas



This is from the Stossel debate. I just remembered because of the caption.

----------


## andy2044

> Earlier in his nomination speech, McAfee said he's pretty sure nobody thinks the libertarian is going to win the general and the goal of the party should be to get the most outspoken dooer driving the boat so to speak - I think that probably hurt him


Agreed. Even though he's realistic and his focus on ground up in his closing was great and something that needed to be said.

----------


## Suzanimal



----------


## younglibertarian

I say three way tie for McAfee, AP, and perry

----------


## andy2044

> I say three way tie for McAfee, AP, and perry


Agreed. But GJ will still win the nomination

----------


## iNoob

> I say three way tie for McAfee, AP, and perry


I think those three had the best performance.

----------


## CPUd

So what happens to disaffected LPers who don't support the nominee?  Do they vote 4th party?

----------


## Suzanimal

> So what happens to disaffected LPers who don't support the nominee?  Do they vote 4th party?

----------


## opal

here's McAfee's statement from earlier today
"Winning the presidency itself will bring us nothing. We have to win  everything. We have to mobilize every libertarian in this nation. We  have to get them to understand that the way we are doing it and have  been doing it is nonsense and it cannot work.

oh.. and I'm outa rep in this thread. color yallselves green

----------


## younglibertarian

I'll agree John McAfee and Feldmen had the best closing statements.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> 


That was epic indeed! He had me laughing at many points through the debate. His answers were awesome.

----------


## younglibertarian

> That was epic indeed! He had me laughing at many points through the debate. His answers were awesome.


Yes indeed. They were slightly confusing at times though :P

----------


## opal

and here's the full debate

----------


## RJ Liberty

> So what happens to disaffected LPers who don't support the nominee?  Do they vote 4th party?


In some states, maybe. But the Constitution Party is only on the ballot in 13 states, so most states won't even have an option for a fourth party vote. The Green Party is only on the ballot in 21 states. The Reform Party is only on the ballot in four states.

I hope liberty-minded people won't dilute the not-R/D-vote by voting "seventh party"!

----------


## jct74

McAfee and Peterson interviewed by MSNBC at the convention




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyXAWmIrZtk

----------


## jct74

> and here's the full debate


Thanks.  Here's the CSPAN video if anyone is looking for a little bit higher quality audio/video.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?409916-...dential-debate



edit: also here's a tube from MOXNEWS



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJuFfWwGpjA

----------


## Mikezelot

I just finished watching the debate and at this point I like mcafee but the two that swayed me the most would be AP and Johnson with the worst being perry. AP has improved a lot since stossel and is probably the closest to my veiws and there were some times I agreed with Johnson over the rest like on immigration. Perry is a for sure no after seeing him this one time I would never vote for an anarchist I think government should fund the roads, pay for a defensive military, and uphold the law. One thing that is pushing me away from mcafee at the moment is that he is down playing that they can win the White House. I know they can't win but why discredit yourself to the people you want to vote for you.

----------


## cindy25

> Where's Wayne Allan Root and Bob Barr? [/sarcasm]
> 
> - ML


Wayne Root was on Real Time, he supports Trump

----------


## William Tell

That depends, is HB a delegate?

----------


## FindLiberty

Only a few hours to go... all bets down?

...and the winner is?

----------


## William Tell

> In some states, maybe. But the Constitution Party is only on the ballot in 13 states, so most states won't even have an option for a fourth party vote. The Green Party is only on the ballot in 21 states. The Reform Party is only on the ballot in four states.
> 
> I hope liberty-minded people won't dilute the not-R/D-vote by voting "seventh party"!


 The CP is still working on ballot access. They won't be on in 50 but they will be an option in far more than the current number.

----------


## younglibertarian

You can watch the selection on cspan

----------


## younglibertarian

Voting starts at 9:45, I believe.

----------


## jct74

listing off the votes for each state now

----------


## James Otis, Jr.

Johnson doing very well in the other tallies.

----------


## andy2044

So far looking like GJ

----------


## LibertyEagle

Watching this... what do Libertarians have against personal hygiene?

----------


## andy2044

Proud of my state, Nebraska, not going with Johnson

----------


## andy2044

Thanks, New Mexico delegate. I had no idea GJ was from New Mexico

----------


## phill4paul

> Watching this... what do Libertarians have against personal hygiene?


  Like the well groomed young man speaking now? Or the well groomed young lady speaking after him. Or the well groomed older gentleman speaking after her? Or the well groomed man in a business suit speaking after him? Libertarians are diverse.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Like the well groomed young man speaking now? Or the well groomed young lady speaking after him. Or the well groomed older gentleman speaking after her? Or the well groomed man in a business suit speaking after him? Libertarians are diverse.


You must be watching something different than I am.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Looks like Johnson has it wrapped up.

----------


## andy2044

Let's hope they can block Weld... but doubt it.

----------


## phill4paul

> You must be watching something different than I am.


  I'm watching the CSPAn Libertarian convention. Perhaps you need to put your glasses on.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I'm watching the CSPAn Libertarian convention. Perhaps you need to put your glasses on.


Perhaps your TV screen needs some hygiene too.

----------


## phill4paul

> Perhaps your TV screen needs some hygiene too.


  Just STFU already with your snide remarks.

----------


## phill4paul

Woot! Ron Paul just got a vote.

----------


## andy2044

> Woot! Ron Paul just got a vote.


Smartest delegate in the room.

----------


## phill4paul

Hey HB, Vermin just got a vote!

----------


## FindLiberty

Gary Johnson wins 1st ballot 458 votes 49.5 %

...stay tuned for round two! (needs over 50%)

----------


## phill4paul

Going to second ballot.

----------


## francisco

Gary Johnson wins a plurality of 49.5% on first ballot.

Majority required for LP nomination.

Second ballot will commence shortly.

Live feed:

http://www.c-span.org/video/?409917-...s-nominee&live

----------


## opal

Good morning people.. I'm more than thrilled that they're going to a second vote

----------


## jct74



----------


## phill4paul

> That link says that I have to sign into my cable provider account to access the video.  
> 
> - ML


  Hmm, didn't ask me that. Hope you can find a work-around.

----------


## opal

yesterday there was a youtube feed.. I'll try to find it

try here
http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/libert...how-when-time/

----------


## phill4paul

> The pink hair woman, running for Oklahoma State Senate...    That ain't going to go over well in Oklahoma.  Why do people insist on shooting themselves in the foot?


  Is there possibly a catty fashion blog you might rather spend your time commenting at?

----------


## jct74



----------


## LibertyEagle

> We've gone over this. I have refuted your positions as not quite nuanced and only half-truths. Yet, you think if you say it often enough it makes it 100% true.


You said some things, yes, but I gave numerous sources to substantiate what I said.  Just because you respond, does not mean that you have successfully refuted a thing.  For some reason, you think it does.

----------


## afwjam

Sad I guess this site really will become Trump Forums.

----------


## opal

> Ron Paul 2016!


and NOTA.. 

I guess it's time to start replacing brain dead delegates now

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Sad I guess this site really will become Trump Forums.


No it won't.

----------


## phill4paul

> You said some things, yes, but I gave numerous sources to substantiate what I said.  Just because you respond, does not mean that you have successfully refuted a thing.  For some reason, you think it does.


  Those without ears cannot listen. Those without eyes cannot read. Those with immutable opinions cannot be swayed with reason.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> Yeah, I really can't get excited over a Johnson/Weld ticket.


Why? Gary built the party up to record numbers of voters four years ago, and is showing massive numbers in multiple polls. William Weld is a longtime Libertarian, having run on the ticket in New York back in 2006. The LP has never had such superstars running together on the same ticket, and the media is finally paying attention.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Those without ears cannot listen. Those without eyes cannot read. Those with immutable opinions cannot be swayed with reason.


  Dude, you have to utilize reason and logic in your responses in order to sway anyone with "reason".

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> Sad I guess this site really will become Trump Forums.


Don't even joke about that!! There are already enough Trumptards around here.

How about Castle/Bradley 2016?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Why? Gary built the party up to record numbers of voters four years ago, and is showing massive numbers in multiple polls. William Weld is a longtime Libertarian, having run on the ticket in New York back in 2006. The LP has never had such superstars running together on the same ticket, and the media is finally paying attention.


So, it's the political party that matters; not what the candidates stand for?

----------


## Foreigner

Once they nominated Johnson, they kind of accepted Weld as well. It would be incredibly lame of them to not nominate Weld as VP at this point.

If Weld was enough of a dealbraker in the first place, then they should have went with McAfee or Peterson.

----------


## Foreigner

As a libertarian political junkie with strong love for the US of A, I have reason to be excited again - it's gonna be a race to get Johnson into the debates. Maybe he'll also get Koch-funding. 

Unlike last election where their stupid strategy was to spend all their money and campaigning in Washington DC in a failed bid to come in second place there to the Democrats.

----------


## afwjam

You would think a CFR member would be a deal breaker for a Libertarian ticket.
http://www.cfr.org/canada/building-n...ommunity/p8102

----------


## phill4paul

> Dude, you have to utilize reason and logic in your responses in order to sway anyone with "reason".


  Thus proving my point. Immutable.

----------


## phill4paul

> Don't even joke about that!! There are already enough Trumptards around here.
> 
> How about Castle/Bradley 2016?


  If it were Glen Bradley I'd be all on board.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> So, it's the political party that matters; not what the candidates stand for?


Aren't you voting for Trump? What does he stand for? He's contradicted himself so often, does anyone even know? LE, you have no room to talk about "what the candidates stand for" when you've openly stated you're voting for someone who is unquestionably an authoritarian.

As for what the candidates stand for, I'm reminded of Emily Dickinson's poem:

Tell all the truth but tell it slant —

Success in Circuit lies

Too bright for our infirm Delight

The Truth's superb surprise

As Lightning to the Children eased

With explanation kind

The Truth must dazzle gradually

Or every man be blind

Those who were advocating for candidates like McAfee must know, at least on some level, that he's unelectable: a fugitive wanted for questioning in a murder case is never going to be electable. The American electorate isn't ready for that, and the media would eat him alive. Nor is a candidate who is a complete unknown (like Petersen) going to get elected. The truth of the libertarian movement must happen slowly, and through the best conduits to make that happen. 

Johnson announced just a short while ago that in 2012, Judge James Gray attempted to make media appearances, but was completely cut out by our wonderful MSM. He made exactly zero appearances in the press, not for lack of trying, but because our nation's media is $#@!ed up. Zero. William Weld has already appeared in 25 MSM interviews. That's impressive, and that's the power of a major, well-known candidate who is already known by those in the press and those in politics.

People can dig at Weld's or Gary's positions, but these guys actually ran as capital-L Libertarians _knowing_ it was political suicide. And yet still wanting to offer an alternative for voters. And Weld did so in 2006, before the RP revolution was even going. That speaks volumes to me.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> As a libertarian political junkie with strong love for the US of A, I have reason to be excited again - it's gonna be a race to get Johnson into the debates. Maybe he'll also get Koch-funding.


That's my hope, too. We shall see. Gary's at least got a shot at the debates, though I don't doubt the GOP and Dems will fight tooth and nail to keep him out, even if he does manage to qualify for the debates.

----------


## jth_ttu

Weld may be a Libertarian but he's definitely not libertarian. Correct me but from what I've read his record suggests he's strongly anti-2a.

----------


## jct74

CSPAN coverage has resumed

----------


## phill4paul



----------


## Michael Landon

> yesterday there was a youtube feed.. I'll try to find it
> 
> try here
> http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/libert...how-when-time/


That works, thanks.

- ML

----------


## jct74

Doing concession speeches now.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Weld may be a Libertarian but he's definitely not libertarian. Correct me but from what I've read his record suggests he's strongly anti-2a.


It was just pointed out to me that Weld is CFR.  He not only participated in the CFR task force, along with Heidi Cruz I might add, "Building a North American Community"; he CO-CHAIRED IT.  The man is scum.

----------


## jct74

Austin Peterson: "I cannot endorse Bill Weld for vice president."

----------


## LibertyEagle

> People can dig at Weld's or Gary's positions, but these guys actually ran as capital-L Libertarians _knowing_ it was political suicide. And yet still wanting to offer an alternative for voters. And Weld did so in 2006, before the RP revolution was even going. That speaks volumes to me.


What does his CFR membership speak to you, ye man of "principle"?  That's not an alternative.  That is more of the same and it should tell you exactly what Johnson is made of too, for him to want him as his VP.

----------


## phill4paul

> Austin Peterson: "I cannot endorse Bill Weld for vice president."


  Where are you watching the concession speeches?

----------


## jct74

McAfee speaking now

----------


## jct74

> Where are you watching the concession speeches?


CSPAN, on my TV

----------


## jct74

McAfee endorse Derrick Grayson (TMOT) for VP

----------


## phill4paul

> CSPAN, on my TV


  Ah, Different CSPAN channel than I am streaming. Hopefully you-tubes of concession speeches. What did McAfee have to say?

----------


## jct74

Darryl Perry is screaming about selecting a libertarian for VP

----------


## 69360

Looks like Weld is leading for VP.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> What does his CFR membership speak to you, ye man of "principle"?  That's not an alternative.  That is more of the same and it should tell you exactly what Johnson is made of too, for him to want him as his VP.


Aren't you voting for Trump? What does he stand for? He's contradicted  himself so often, does anyone even know? LE, you have no room to talk  about "what the candidates stand for" when you've openly stated you're  voting for someone who is unquestionably an authoritarian.

----------


## andy2044

Can the VP candidates please do what the presidential candidates didn't do and coalesce around one anti-Weld candidate?

----------


## younglibertarian

What Perry just said was very profound and true. Respect.

----------


## jkob

It'll be worth if they can pull over 5% and get matching funds in 2020

----------


## phill4paul

> Can the VP candidates please do what the presidential candidates didn't do and coalesce around one anti-Weld candidate?


  Let's hope.

----------


## andy2044

> Let's hope.


Since it's the right thing to do, it won't happen.

----------


## phill4paul

> Since it's the right thing to do, it won't happen.


  Lol.

----------


## andy2044

I've been a Libertarian for 14 days. Make me your VP nominee!

----------


## younglibertarian

> It'll be worth if they can pull over 5% and get matching funds in 2020


Compromise is never worth anything. Ask Ron Paul.

----------


## phill4paul

> I've been a Libertarian for 14 days. Make me your VP nominee!


  He's learning more everyday!

----------


## LibertyEagle

Well, that didn't take long for the Libertarian Party to be infiltrated.

----------


## andy2044

> He's learning more everyday!


He finally read the platform!!! Like that's something we should applaud the party's eventual VP pick for saying at the convention an hour before being nominated.

----------


## andy2044

Hopefully others follow Weiss and drop out, endorsing one candidate.

----------


## phill4paul

> Well, that didn't take long for the Libertarian Party to be infiltrated.


  Following the Republican party example WRT Donald Trump.

----------


## opal

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1

----------


## opal

> Well, that didn't take long for the Libertarian Party to be infiltrated.


this

----------


## jct74

TMOT running for VP slot, speaking now

----------


## andy2044

> TMOT running for VP slot, speaking now


Sounds like a better speaker than Johnson or Weld.

----------


## younglibertarian

This is borderline depressing.

----------


## LibertyEagle

I like what this Derrick Grayson guy is saying.  He should have run for President.

----------


## andy2044

I'm hoping Grayson can pull this off. He's great!

----------


## phill4paul

> I'm hoping Grayson can pull this off. He's great!


  Indeed.

----------


## afwjam

Love me that drive time

----------


## phill4paul

> I like what this Derrick Grayson guy is saying.  He should have run for President.


  No $#@!. I'd +rep you if I could.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Where has this guy been?  He speaks well and presents himself wonderfully.  I'm impressed.  

Also seems to know about hygiene.

----------


## opal

Tmot.. best speaker so far.. being called to verify his libertarian party membership

----------


## phill4paul

> Where has this guy been?  He speaks well and presents himself wonderfully.  I'm impressed.  
> 
> Also seems to know about hygiene.


  You've never seen any of TMOT's videos? https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...errick+Grayson

  Enjoy!

----------


## LibertyEagle

> You've never seen any of TMOT's videos? https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...errick+Grayson
> 
>   Enjoy!


Yeah, I have.  THAT'S TMOT???  wow.  Ok, I know who he is.

----------


## phill4paul

> Tmot.. best speaker so far.. being called to verify his libertarian party membership


  That's hilarious considering Weld Libertarian history.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Johnson isn't selfless; he is solely for himself.

----------


## younglibertarian

Where are you guys watching? CSPAN ended

----------


## opal

> That's hilarious considering Weld Libertarian history.


my thoughts exactly 




> Where are you guys watching? CSPAN ended


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/libertarian-party1

----------


## phill4paul

> Where are you guys watching? CSPAN ended


http://www.c-span.org/video/?409917-...s-nominee&live

----------


## opal

oh crap.. looks like Dern is going to support Weld
ack

----------


## andy2044

What about New York, Weld?

----------


## younglibertarian

AT least the crowd is doing good.

----------


## andy2044

one less person to dilute the anti-Weld vote

----------


## younglibertarian

Welcome to the Republican party 2.0

----------


## younglibertarian

Lets go Sharpe

----------


## opal

Sharp's speech - yawn

----------


## andy2044

> Sharp's speech - yawn


I have a feeling this is just an intro video....

Grayson for VP!

----------


## Krugminator2

Maybe it is just me, I am kind of ambivalent  about the LP getting a few more percentage points with two people who don't represent my views. I don't see how that is a win.

I am inclined to give imperfect Republicans with a chance of winning like Cruz much more latitude.  I honestly don't think Weld is much better than Trump on the issues. The LP is never going to win anything.  I would rather they be  a vehicle to promote ideas not play spoiler with Republicans.

----------


## francisco

Sharpe making a powerful presentation, very impressed

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Where are you guys watching? CSPAN ended


no, it didn't.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Sharpe making a powerful presentation, very impressed


I thought it was bad.

----------


## opal

Just my two cents.. Weld is a plant.  If he gets on the ticket and they win the election, Gary's life will be in danger... favoring the GOP plant Weld

----------


## RJ Liberty

> I honestly don't think Weld is much better than Trump on the issues.


How can you tell? Trump's been on both sides of nearly every issue.

----------


## younglibertarian

Lol this lady is funny

----------


## younglibertarian

The fact that the "libertarian wing" of the libertarian party is even a saying is sad

----------


## chudrockz

> I thought it was bad.


I am not watching, but if you thought that, then it was probably terrific!

----------


## Krugminator2

> How can you tell? Trump's been on both sides of nearly every issue.


So has Weld. He has completely incoherent views. He supported Romney then called Obama a once in a lifetime candidate, then supported Romney again and then settled on Kasich this year.

Weld was an Iraq War surrogate for Bush. He pushed eminent domain for a basketball arena.  green energy subsidies, a carbon emissions standard. He thinks guns are for hunting. There is a lot not to like with him. I really don't want the LP hurting down ticket Republicans with two guys who are not solid on the issues.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I am not watching, but if you thought that, then it was probably terrific!


Was that really necessary?

----------


## 69360

> Just my two cents.. Weld is a plant.  If he gets on the ticket and they win the election, Gary's life will be in danger... favoring the GOP plant Weld


Are you insane? Nobody, not even the LP members at the convention is delusional enough to think Johnson will ever be potus.

----------


## opal

> Are you insane? Nobody, not even the LP members at the convention is delusional enough to think Johnson will ever be potus.


my bad.. I'll take my tin foil hat off now

----------


## francisco

VP nominations now closed. GJ now up to make his case for his pick

----------


## andy2044

GJ looks pathetic begging for a guy like Weld

----------


## opal

Gary is such a whiner

----------


## Rudeman

If Weld is the VP I'm not voting GJ. Ugh, another year of $#@!ty choices.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Johnson is either a traitor or an idiot.  There is no other excuse for him picking a high-ranking CFR member as a running mate.

----------


## andy2044

Delegates, talk among yourselves. Pick ONE non-Weld person and vote for them no matter what.

----------


## afwjam

Puke:

----------


## andy2044

Can a delegate make a motion to remove "Party of Principle" from the website

----------


## LibertyEagle

"The LP stands for open immigration".  And there you have it.  I will NEVER support that.  Not now; not ever.  Good little tools for the globalists though.  Which probably explains why the CFR guy fits in so nicely.

----------


## phill4paul

> "The LP stands for open immigration".  And there you have it.  I will NEVER support that.  Not now; not ever.  Good little tools for the globalists though.  Which probably explains why the CFR guy fits in so nicely.


  Lol. Like this is some kind of new revelation about how you feel about the LP.

----------


## afwjam

> "The LP stands for open immigration".  And there you have it.  I will NEVER support that.  Not now; not ever.  Good little tools for the globalists though.  Which probably explains why the CFR guy fits in so nicely.


I disagree, I love open borders, open trade and open immigration, that does not mean I like overlords trying to hustle us globally like Weld, Trump and Clinton.

----------


## torchbearer

If you want a better LP candidate, join the party, become a delegate- and enlist others to do the same. Otherwise, you are just being bitches.

----------


## opal

The rep from Texas.. omg - he's fantastic

----------


## opal

More available seats for the presidential banquet.. I wonder why

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Lol. Like this is some kind of new revelation about how you feel about the LP.


I was quoting what a speaker said at the LP CONVENTION.  If you don't like it, TOUGH!  I have taken the time to listen; if all you can do is to insult me for doing it, then you can go to Hell.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> The rep from Texas.. omg - he's fantastic


lol.  I thought he sounded like a lefty lunatic.  It's funny how people view things different ways, eh?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I disagree, I love open borders, open trade and open immigration, that does not mean I like overlords trying to hustle us globally like Weld, Trump and Clinton.


While we have a welfare state?  Seriously?

Also, do you think what we have now is "open trade"?

----------


## Rudeman

Have they voted on the VP yet? How long is this going to take?

----------


## andy2044

Will Coley dropping out to endorse Sharpe

----------


## Rudeman

1st ballot Sharpe had around 30% and Weld had 49%.

----------


## andy2044

As long as Dearn doesn't endorse Weld, we have a shot at stopping him

----------


## francisco

Weld only gets plurarity of 49% for VP nom; not majority required; there will be a second ballot

 Dearn as last place will be off ballot 

 Will Coley going to drop out make speech to endorse Sharpe

LP convention with article about GJ is top news at CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/

----------


## jct74



----------


## younglibertarian

Dearn better not have put Weld over the top

----------


## francisco

TMOT talking now after dropping

Bet he's going to endorse Sharpe

On edit: yup, that's what he did.

Prediction: Sharpe wins second ballot

----------


## andy2044

> Dearn better not have put Weld over the top


She did, and her reasoning is terrible

----------


## younglibertarian

Who is the gentlemen at the moment he is killing it!

----------


## younglibertarian

Greyson was fantastic

----------


## LibertyEagle

Why did TMOT say he dropped out?

----------


## Rudeman

TMOT drops out to support Sharpe.

----------


## andy2044

> Why did TMOT say he dropped out?


To coalesce around Sharpe and block Weld.

----------


## andy2044

Right now it's Sharpe v. Weld.

Every other candidate except Dearn endorsed Sharpe. Dearn endorsed Weld because Trump is saying mean things about us.

----------


## LibertyEagle

But, he said more than that.  Was his standing in the Libertarian Party successfully challenged?

----------


## LibertyEagle

Dude up there now is an idiot for supporting Weld.

----------


## andy2044

No, they proved he's a member. He only got 5% so he dropped out to back the only person with a chance of beating Weld.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> No, they proved he's a member. He only got 5% so he dropped out to back the only person with a chance of beating Weld.


Ah.  Ok, thanks.  He seemed upset about something is why I asked.

----------


## younglibertarian

I hope Weld fails just so he can see the symbolic middle finger.

----------


## undergroundrr

> Right now it's Sharpe v. Weld.
> 
> Every other candidate except Dearn endorsed Sharpe. Dearn endorsed Weld because Trump is saying mean things about us.


It might be a reference to trump calling Weld a drunk. I can't find the reference at the moment, but it was on somebody's Twitter feed yesterday.

----------


## andy2044

> Ah.  Ok, thanks.  He seemed upset about something is why I asked.


He was upset about Weld's record and the mistake we'd be making by nominating him.

----------


## opal

I just had a friend that was NPA for 34 years.. swapped to Lib last year .. if Weld gets the nomination.. she's back to NPA

----------


## undergroundrr



----------


## younglibertarian

What on earth am I watching.....

----------


## Rudeman

wtf

----------


## francisco

WTF is happening ATM???

----------


## LibertyEagle

Who is this fat guy stripping?  He's making a mockery of this whole thing.

----------


## younglibertarian

This man should be nominated..... He has balls of steel!

----------


## andy2044

Nominating anyone but Weld will discredit the party.

Fat man stripping and doing nothing? Totally fine and will help the party.

----------


## opal

> This man should be nominated..... He has balls of steel!


he was nominated as speaker.. he just withdrew

----------


## younglibertarian

> he was nominated as speaker.. he just withdrew


Someone put him in the VP slot

----------


## opal

My bad.. I think it was chairman not speaker

----------


## andy2044

> Someone put him in the VP slot


Still better than Weld

----------


## torchbearer

> Who is this fat guy stripping?  He's making a mockery of this whole thing.



advocate for transparency in government?

----------


## andy2044

These Texas delegates are great!

----------


## opal

Oh goodie.. the Texan is back

----------


## LibertyEagle

> advocate for transparency in government?


By stripping?

----------


## younglibertarian

So how soon is the actual 2nd round of voting?

----------


## andy2044

If Weld wins, I'm considering leaving the party

----------


## LibertyEagle

Good for the woman speaker.

----------


## 69360

> If Weld wins, I'm considering leaving the party


I'm considering joining the party because of this. Two governors is a serious ticket. I think the LP might be going somewhere.

----------


## torchbearer

> By stripping?


he was hiding nothing.

----------


## andy2044

I joined because I believe in the principles. But it's clear they're willing to throw away principle for popularity.

----------


## Rudeman

The replacement chair isn't very good.

----------


## 69360

> I joined because I believe in the principles. But it's clear they're willing to throw away principle for popularity.


No reason you can't find a balance somewhere in the middle.

----------


## younglibertarian

> he was hiding nothing.


Innocent until proven guilty.

Seriously though they need to move on from this.

----------


## Rudeman

> I joined because I believe in the principles. But it's clear they're willing to throw away principle for popularity.


Don't worry they'll fail again and GJ will blame everyone but himself and his VP pick.

----------


## LibertyEagle

They need to bring back the Chair, or whomever it was who was doing that duty earlier.  Because the guy up there now is a nervous wreck and is doing a horrible job.

----------


## 69360

> Don't worry they'll fail again and GJ will blame everyone but himself and his VP pick.


They are going to fail. Everyone knows that, potus is out of reach. Maybe Johnson and Weld can get the 5% though.

----------


## torchbearer

> Don't worry they'll fail again and GJ will blame everyone but himself and his VP pick.


any tickets success depends on the people and their support. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy to say the candidate loses the election, while not supporting that candidate. it voids your own part in the process.

----------


## andy2044

> Don't worry they'll fail again and GJ will blame everyone but himself and his VP pick.


He'll blame real libertarians for not voting for someone who doesn't represent them. Don't you know it's stupid for D's or R's for voting party line but god forbid libertarians vote on principle and not party line.

----------


## younglibertarian

> They need to bring back the Chair, or whomever it was who was doing that duty earlier.  Because the guy up there now is a nervous wreck and is doing a horrible job.


Agreed

----------


## Rudeman

> They are going to fail. Everyone knows that, potus is out of reach. Maybe Johnson and Weld can get the 5% though.


Again like I said in the other thread. When I say they'll fail I'm referring to 15% and 5%. GJ winning potus isn't even a consideration.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Ugh.  Weld. So much for principle.

And this is why I hate political parties.

----------


## Rudeman

> any tickets success depends on the people and their support. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy to say the candidate loses the election, while not supporting that candidate. it voids your own part in the process.


So the candidate takes no personal responsibility in his failure?

----------


## Rudeman

Weld speech? This will be a disaster.

----------


## torchbearer

> So the candidate takes no personal responsibility in his failure?



He takes his part for the failure, as does the person who wasn't supporting him to begin with.
Each person is required in the act.

example-
I didn't vote for Rand Paul when i had the chance. Its his fault he lost.

----------


## opal

ok.. I have a few groups to unlike now

----------


## torchbearer

I look at things long term. If the LP does well this general election, it will improve its renown for the next election. And if you want a better candidate in the LP, become part of the process and become a delegate.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I'm considering joining the party because of this. Two governors is a serious ticket. I think the LP might be going somewhere.


Are you kidding???  Weld is a high-ranking member of the CFR!!  That is everything that is wrong with the GOP.  Surely, you know that.

----------


## younglibertarian

I hate to be crude........


* *




$#@! YOU WELD YOU PIECE OF AUTHORITARIAN $#@!!

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I look at things long term. If the LP does well this general election, it will improve its renown for the next election. And if you want a better candidate in the LP, become part of the process and become a delegate.


No, you just made it a dup of the Republican Party.  Congrats.  That didn't take long.  Wow.

----------


## torchbearer

Supporting Johnson could lead to a better platform to start from for a better candidate in 2020. Johnson will not occupy the white house. But his vote totals could lead to inclusion of the LP in future debates.

----------


## jth_ttu

Just unliked the LP on Facebook. If I vote this year it will be Ron Paul

----------


## torchbearer

> No, you just made it a dup of the Republican Party.  Congrats.  That didn't take long.  Wow.



The republican party controls who is in the debates. The LP is not allowed in the debates. Until that happens it doesn't matter what the LP does.

----------


## torchbearer

> Just unliked the LP on Facebook. If I vote this year it will be Ron Paul



So you are putting together a slate of electors for Ron? Are do you mean you are going to commit the useless act of voting for someone who isn't an elector?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Supporting Johnson could lead to a better platform to start from for a better candidate in 2020. Johnson will not occupy the white house. But his vote totals could lead to inclusion of the LP in future debates.


The LP sold out.  Just like they did with Barr and the used car salesman.  And they did it so willingly.  So don't talk to me about principles.  The LP has none.  Clearly.

----------


## VictorB

This is a cluster.

----------


## Rudeman

> He takes his part for the failure, as does the person who wasn't supporting him to begin with.
> Each person is required in the act.
> 
> example-
> I didn't vote for Rand Paul when i had the chance. Its his fault he lost.


See I disagree. I'm an independent, I have zero obligation to vote for GJ (even if I was Libertarian I would still have zero obligation). It's up to the candidate to appeal to people like me. Now if I didn't vote for him because I was too lazy or for some petty reason (not thinking he has a chance to win or something stupid like that), then yea I would take part in the blame but that isn't the case.

----------


## torchbearer

> The LP sold out.  Just like they did with Barr and the used car salesman.  And they did it so willingly.  So don't talk to me about principles.  The LP has none.  Clearly.



If you didn't bother to participate in that process, and you are bitching about it, what does that make you?

----------


## torchbearer

> See I disagree. I'm an independent, I have zero obligation to vote for GJ (even if I was Libertarian I would still have zero obligation). It's up to the candidate to appeal to people like me. Now if I didn't vote for him because I was too lazy or for some petty reason (not thinking he has a chance to win or something stupid like that), then yea I would take part in the blame but that isn't the case.


Then status quo is what you get. Congrats. You will still have an ineffectual third party and two crappy statist to vote for in 2020.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> The LP sold out.  Just like they did with Barr and the used car salesman.  And they did it so willingly.  So don't talk to me about principles.  The LP has none.  Clearly.


As if you were going to vote for any LP candidate. You already stated you were supporting Trump.

----------


## jth_ttu

[QUOTE=torchbearer;6227347]So you are putting together a slate of electors for Ron? Are do you mean you are going to commit the useless act of voting for someone who isn't an elector?[/QUOTE

 Not near as useless as voting for the statist  LP candidates. Neither are going to win but at least I'd be voting my principles.

----------


## younglibertarian

Weld is a horrible speaker anyway. Booo

----------


## torchbearer

> As if you were going to vote for any LP candidate. You already stated you were supporting Trump.



That statement blows my mind. A trump supporter- a person who supports a candidate that supports liberty 0% of the time is bitching about a candidate that supports liberty only 80% of the time?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Then status quo is what you get. Congrats. You will still have an ineffectual third party and two crappy statist to vote for in 2020.


Well Torch, what you got right now are THREE statist parties.  Weld is scum.

----------


## andy2044

Darrell Castle 2016!

----------


## LibertyEagle

> As if you were going to vote for any LP candidate. You already stated you were supporting Trump.


Not if he nominates a CFR member as his VP, I can assure you.

----------


## Rudeman

> Then status quo is what you get. Congrats. You will still have an ineffectual third party and two crappy statist to vote for in 2020.


How is this any different than trying to guilt a Republican into voting for Trump otherwise you "elect" Hillary?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> That statement blows my mind. A trump supporter- a person who supports a candidate that supports liberty 0% of the time is bitching about a candidate that supports liberty only 80% of the time?


Weld doesn't support ANY kind of liberty.  Have you even taken the time to research this guy?

----------


## torchbearer

> Well Torch, what you got right now are THREE statist parties.  Weld is scum.



But out of the three, only one do you have a chance to change by your participation. Guess which one? And imagine how useful it is to torpedo it.

----------


## torchbearer

> Weld doesn't support ANY kind of liberty.  Have you even taken the time to research this guy?


Yes, he is about 2 degrees better than trump. But unlike trump. weld has no chance of $#@!ing up our lives.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> But out of the three, only one do you have a chance to change by your participation. Guess which one? And imagine how useful it is to torpedo it.


What are you talking about??  Weld and Johnson torpedoed it.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Yes, he is about 2 degrees better than trump. But unlike trump. weld has no chance of $#@!ing up our lives.


Yeah, he does.  You don't understand the power of a high-ranking CFR member.

----------


## torchbearer

> What are you talking about??  Weld and Johnson torpedoed it.


No they didn't. They support what they support. They didn't lie. The delegates voted. You didn't participate in it. So now you are just bitching about it.

----------


## torchbearer

> Yeah, he does.  You don't understand the power of a high-ranking CFR member.



No he doesn't. The LP will not win one state.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Torch, you are acting like what so many have always criticized Republicans for doing.  Voting for whomever the Party nominates; regardless of the candidate himself.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> No he doesn't. The LP will not win one state.


Then you should ask yourself why the CFR wanted to insert itself so badly.  They ain't on our side.

----------


## andy2044

So today I learned "winning" is more important than principles.

----------


## torchbearer

so what makes for a better chance in 2020? a good showing in 2016.
To torpedo the LP ticket in 2016, is to guarantee is has no effect at all in 2020. You have to look at this long term in a minor party. When you are deep in a hole, you have to climb out one step at a time. You aren't going to get from here to there in one jump. Not with the rules made by the two major parties.

15% would force a major party status to the LP by the two major parties own rules.

----------


## younglibertarian

> So today I learned "winning" is more important than principles.



Which is really funny, because lets admit, we won't win, weather it be Gary, McAfee, Perry, or a dog with rabies.

----------


## torchbearer

> So today I learned "winning" is more important than principles.



there will be no winning until you get in the debates.

----------


## andy2044

> there will be no winning until you get in the debates.


There will be no winning for liberty if we elect moderate Republicans

----------


## torchbearer

> There will be no winning for liberty if we elect moderate Republicans


they won't be elected, but they will appeal to enough people from different coalitions to possibly meet a criteria to be considered a choice going into the future.

----------


## silverhandorder

Ah cognitive dissonance is strong in some. Trump people are bad because of A. LP is good because of A.

----------


## torchbearer

> Ah cognitive dissonance is strong in some. Trump people are bad because of A. LP is good because of A.



Can you list what Trump's policies are... this week?
I know that it will be a challenge since they are constantly "evolving", on the other hand, you could vote for an LP candidate that isn't 100% pure, in fact, he may only be partially pro-liberty, but his positions are known and are unchanging. 

So either you can support the Chameleon Trump, or you can vote for someone who is honest about their beliefs and may only line up with you 80% of the time.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> I pointed out some facts about Johnson's positions, yes, and gave multiple sources for what I said.  You seem to have an issue with that.


Actually, we all witnessed you calling Gary a POS.

You've been pimping Trump for months, and now you "point out facts" like "Johnson's a POS". No one believes that you're "just pointing out facts". You're campaigning for your authoritarian pick for president.




> Yes, after Rand dropped out, Trump became my 1st choice.


Yes, we all know this.

----------


## 69360

> Are you kidding???  Weld is a high-ranking member of the CFR!!  That is everything that is wrong with the GOP.  Surely, you know that.


Not kidding. I know who Weld is and what he has been a member of. I don't believe in the CFR boogiemen. It's just a thinktank. Not that I agree with CFR, but they don't have any secret powers.

Weld isn't going to be vpotus. Everyone knows that. His being a Governor brings even more legitimacy to the ticket. He helps more than hurts.

I'd like to see a real third party that is somewhere between R and D. Maybe the LP can become that?

----------


## RJ Liberty

> Can you list what Trump's policies are... this week?


Torch, don't ask anyone to try to sort that out. By the time the research is done, and the post made, Trump's position will have changed, rendering the post useless.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Actually, we all witnessed you calling Gary a POS.


Because he is.

I listed a number of his positions and sourced them all.  Look in the eval thread that Bryan started.




> You've been pimping Trump for months, and now you "point out facts" like "Johnson's a POS". No one believes that you're "just pointing out facts". You're campaigning for your authoritarian pick for president.


I'm not "pimping" anyone.  When I have commented about Trump it has been to correct the lies posted.  As I have said many, many times on here, he is a very flawed candidate and has numerous positions you can honestly fault him for.  But, to lie?  It isn't necessary and makes those doing it look very petty and foolish and completely lacking in any ethics.




> Yes, we all know this.


Good.

Your position now seems to be that if you bash me personally, that will somehow change the facts about Johnson and his CFR running mate.  It won't, you know.  lol

----------


## Anti Federalist

Will write in Ron Paul.

Again.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Not kidding. I know who Weld is and what he has been a member of. I don't believe in the CFR boogiemen. It's just a thinktank. Not that I agree with CFR, but they don't have any secret powers.
> 
> Weld isn't going to be vpotus. Everyone knows that. His being a Governor brings even more legitimacy to the ticket. He helps more than hurts.
> 
> I'd like to see a real third party that is somewhere between R and D. Maybe the LP can become that?


Well, I think you are naive about the CFR and have not done your homework.  But, that is your choice.

----------


## silverhandorder

> Can you list what Trump's policies are... this week?
> I know that it will be a challenge since they are constantly "evolving", on the other hand, you could vote for an LP candidate that isn't 100% pure, in fact, he may only be partially pro-liberty, but his positions are known and are unchanging. 
> 
> So either you can support the Chameleon Trump, or you can vote for someone who is honest about their beliefs and may only line up with you 80% of the time.


Trump will build a wall. Renegotiate deals. Bring back jobs. 

I may not agree with everything but don't tell me he changed on those. Each of those he goes into great detail talking about it at every rally.

----------


## torchbearer

> Torch, don't ask anyone to try to sort that out. By the time the research is done, and the post made, Trump's position will have changed, rendering the post useless.



well, that is the challenge, even to reporters. Can they publish their report before he changes again.

----------


## opal

> Will write in Ron Paul.
> 
> Again.



yep.. better than nota

----------


## torchbearer

> Trump will build a wall. Renegotiate deals. Bring back jobs. 
> 
> I may not agree with everything but don't tell me he changed on those. Each of those he goes into great detail talking about it at every rally.



actually, those are just suggestions.
I can show you how many times trump has evolved. I will do it again for the 100th time, even though I know that if you support trump to begin with- you are immune to facts.
The wall, just a suggestion. 
Negotiate deals? you mean another bankruptcy? 
And bring jobs back? You mean like a dictator telling companies where they have to build their factories? awesome! nothing fascist about that at all.

----------


## Rudeman

> so what makes for a better chance in 2020? a good showing in 2016.
> To torpedo the LP ticket in 2016, is to guarantee is has no effect at all in 2020. You have to look at this long term in a minor party. When you are deep in a hole, you have to climb out one step at a time. You aren't going to get from here to there in one jump. Not with the rules made by the two major parties.
> 
> 15% would force a major party status to the LP by the two major parties own rules.


Whether GJ succeeds or not will be entirely dependent on him and his awful VP choice. If and when he fails at it don't go around blaming a few people on a forum or libertarians as the reason why he failed because we are only a tiny minority of the electorate. 

So good luck, we'll see if selling out is a good idea.

----------


## CPUd

> Trump will build a wall. Renegotiate deals. Bring back jobs. 
> 
> I may not agree with everything but don't tell me he changed on those. Each of those he goes into great detail talking about it at every rally.


The other day, his guy said those were just "suggestions".  Now that he has tricked enough GOPs to vote for him, he can be more flexible.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> Because he is.


If you can't debate without being personally-insulting, you have no argument at all. Calling someone a POS isn't an "argument" and it's not a "fact". It's your opinion, but it's an incredibly goofy one, considering the authoritarian who you're supporting.




> I'm not "pimping" anyone.


Yes you are. You've been pimping Trump for months. You pimp Trump, and you call other candidates names, all under the guide of "correcting lies" and "telling the truth".




> When I have commented about Trump it has been to correct the lies posted.


Exhibit A.

----------


## undergroundrr

Well, I'm certainly okay with Johnson, but Weld isn't very exciting.

I haven't really looked into Weld very seriously, but I guess I'd better now.  I've heard plenty of teeth-gnashing about how anti-gun and CFR he is.  Honestly, I'd love for someone to give me their best pitch for how libertarian he is.

From his wiki article it looks like he was crazy good at getting elected Republican governor in about the most Democrat state.  I'd also make the knee-jerk conclusion that he was a hugely positive influence there in liberty terms.  But I know I'm not going on a fully fleshed out picture.

GJ and Weld are social liberals and fiscal conservatives.  They pretty much fit the profile of the historical LP.  i.e. they're a fair distance on several issues from Ron Paul.  Paleocons aren't going to vote for them, period.  However, compared to Clinton and trump in the general election, they are going to look pretty sensible and experienced.  And I believe they're going to be putting some pretty strong liberty positions into the ears of a lot more people than the LP has ever reached.

Is it appropriate to have a campaign evaluation for a VP candidate?

----------


## silverhandorder

> actually, those are just suggestions.
> I can show you how many times trump has evolved. I will do it again for the 100th time, even though I know that if you support trump to begin with- you are immune to facts.
> The wall, just a suggestion. 
> Negotiate deals? you mean another bankruptcy? 
> And bring jobs back? You mean like a dictator telling companies where they have to build their factories? awesome! nothing fascist about that at all.


Ok well you discredit your self. All I hear about a "just a suggestion" is from haters like you. Let's say he said that somewhere. Fine.

But I watch him often and I never herd that. So his voting base is going to voting based on everything I heard and not your "just a suggestions" crap. By that point so will people be voting against him. They will vote against the wall, against renegotiating deals and bringing jobs. 

So why would he ever want to say "just a suggestion" in the way that you imply? What gain is there?

On the other hand I keep hearing flat out lies about him. I don't want to get into it but don't insult my intelligence when you spew $#@! like this.

----------


## Rudeman

> they won't be elected, but they will appeal to enough people from different coalitions to possibly meet a criteria to be considered a choice going into the future.


In 2020 we'll need to go even more moderate for even more votes!!! But don't worry eventually we'll elect a better candidate...

----------


## torchbearer

> In 2020 we'll need to go even more moderate for even more votes!!! But don't worry eventually we'll elect a better candidate...



Or you could get involved and use the spring board of the previous election to put forth someone you like. I know it would take a lot of work and effort on your part, and it is sooooo much easier just to bitch about it on a forum. so I know what you will be doing.

----------


## Rudeman

> Or you could get involved and use the spring board of the previous election to put forth someone you like. I know it would take a lot of work and effort on your part, and it is sooooo much easier just to bitch about it on a forum. so I know what you will be doing.


I have zero interest in joining the Libertarian Party, I was open to it but not if these are considered acceptable candidates. Might as well become a Republican or Democrat.

----------


## torchbearer

> I have zero interest in joining the Libertarian Party, I was open to it but not if these are considered acceptable candidates. Might as well become a Republican or Democrat.



well, you apparently have more than zero interest as you are commenting on it, which requires as least some interest. otherwise, your lack of interest would show as a lack of response to the subject.

----------


## torchbearer

I am hoping for a good showing by the LP this year, not because they have the A-team, but because it will benefit a future project to get someone I like on that ticket in 2020, and get them in the debates.
Once the Pepsi/Coke idea mold is shattered, and people start considering the other brand as part of their shopping concerns, then a victory can be had.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> Well, I'm certainly okay with Johnson, but Weld isn't very exciting.
> 
> I haven't really looked into Weld very seriously, but I guess I'd better now.  I've heard plenty of teeth-gnashing about how anti-gun and CFR he is.  Honestly, I'd love for someone to give me their best pitch for how libertarian he is.


He's a moderate libertarian. Several people who have already stated that they don't want the LP do do well (and who are voting for Trump) have thrown a fit because Weld isn't a "hardcore libertarian" enough to be a fugitive running from Belize (as if that would do well in the political arena). They clearly want the LP to remain fringe.

But the fact of the matter is, Weld ran on the LP in New York as early as 2006, well before any of these folks were registered on RPF, and long before many of them had heard of the LP. He risked his own political future for the Libertarian Party, and of course paid the price, because the LP has difficulty getting anyone elected.

Here's how he ranks overall:






> GJ and Weld are social liberals and fiscal conservatives.  They pretty much fit the profile of the historical LP.  i.e. they're a fair distance on several issues from Ron Paul.  Paleocons aren't going to vote for them, period.  However, compared to Clinton and trump in the general election, they are going to look pretty sensible and experienced.  And I believe they're going to be putting some pretty strong liberty positions into the ears of a lot more people than the LP has ever reached.
> 
> Is it appropriate to have a campaign evaluation for a VP candidate?


There already is one.

----------


## torchbearer

> Ok well you discredit your self. All I hear about a "just a suggestion" is from haters like you. Let's say he said that somewhere. Fine.
> 
> But I watch him often and I never herd that. So his voting base is going to voting based on everything I heard and not your "just a suggestions" crap. By that point so will people be voting against him. They will vote against the wall, against renegotiating deals and bringing jobs. 
> 
> So why would he ever want to say "just a suggestion" in the way that you imply? What gain is there?
> 
> On the other hand I keep hearing flat out lies about him. I don't want to get into it but don't insult my intelligence when you spew $#@! like this.



It was your god, Trump, that said the wall was just "a suggestion" That is how immune to facts you are. Your own deity says something contradictory and you can't even hear it.

http://theresurgent.com/trump-campai...-a-suggestion/

----------


## Rudeman

> well, you apparently have more than zero interest as you are commenting on it, which requires as least some interest. otherwise, your lack of interest would show as a lack of response to the subject.


Zero interest in joining the party. I do have interest in what happens otherwise I wouldn't be commenting. Just like I have interest in what happens in the Democratic and Republican parties.

----------


## torchbearer

> Zero interest in joining the party. I do have interest in what happens otherwise I wouldn't be commenting. Just like I have interest in what happens in the Democratic and Republican parties.



If you are not part of the process, yet bitch about it- what does that make you?

----------


## silverhandorder

> It was your god, Trump, that said the wall was just "a suggestion" That is how immune to facts you are. Your own deity says something contradictory and you can't even hear it.
> 
> http://theresurgent.com/trump-campai...-a-suggestion/


You would do better to address my argument.

----------


## younglibertarian

Dunno If I'm gonna support Gary, may have to think on it

----------


## torchbearer

> You would do better to address my argument.



It would be best if you listened to everything your candidate has said over the last year.

----------


## silverhandorder

> He's a moderate libertarian. Several people who have already stated that they don't want the LP do do well (and who are voting for Trump) have thrown a fit because Weld isn't a "hardcore libertarian" enough to be a fugitive running from Belize (as if that would do well in the political arena). They clearly want the LP to remain fringe.
> 
> But the fact of the matter is, Weld ran on the LP in New York as early as 2006, well before any of these folks were registered on RPF, and long before many of them had heard of the LP. He risked his own political future for the Libertarian Party, and of course paid the price, because the LP has difficulty getting anyone elected.
> 
> Here's how he ranks overall:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I don't care about LP. So I guess better than wanting it to do bad. And for the life of me don't understand why the purists here all of a sudden talking about strategy and etc.

----------


## Rudeman

> If you are not part of the process, yet bitch about it- what does that make you?


An independent with an opinion? Is having an opinion anti-libertarian?

----------


## torchbearer

> An independent with an opinion? Or is having an opinion anti-libertarian?


It just makes you a bitch. Because you had no way to influence the outcome, nor have any chance to change the process- yet think your opinion on a forum is worth the bits to transfer.

----------


## silverhandorder

> It would be best if you listened to everything your candidate has said over the last year.


So still will not answer. Keep evading.

----------


## torchbearer

but I have zero interest in that. lol

----------


## torchbearer

> So still will not answer. Keep evading.


Still waiting for the answer to my original question first-
What are trump's policies? and please be quick about it, or you may be off on his current position.

----------


## torchbearer

just trying to help a comrade find trumps true positions:

*Lyin' Donald: 101 Of Trump's Greatest Lies*http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien

*20 times Donald Trump has changed his mind since June
*https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/17/20-times-donald-trump-has-changed-his-mind-since-june/


*Donald Trump's 3 positions on abortion in 3 hours*http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/politics/donald-trump-abortion-positions/

----------


## silverhandorder

> Still waiting for the answer to my original question first-
> What are trump's policies? and please be quick about it, or you may be off on his current position.





> *Trump will build a wall. Renegotiate deals. Bring back jobs.* 
> 
> I may not agree with everything but don't tell me he changed on those. Each of those he goes into great detail talking about it at every rally.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> So today I learned "winning" is more important than principles.


I learned that here shortly after the 2012 election was over.

----------


## Rudeman

> It just makes you a bitch. Because you had no way to influence the outcome, nor have any chance to change the process- yet think your opinion on a forum is worth the bits to transfer.


My opinion is my opinion, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks it is worth. See unlike you I don't need to insult others because of a difference of opinion. I'm happy for you that you got who you wanted, congrats. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012, I will not vote for him in 2016.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> He's a moderate libertarian. Several people who have already stated that they don't want the LP do do well (and who are voting for Trump) have thrown a fit because Weld isn't a "hardcore libertarian" enough to be a fugitive running from Belize (as if that would do well in the political arena). They clearly want the LP to remain fringe.
> 
> But the fact of the matter is, Weld ran on the LP in New York as early as 2006, well before any of these folks were registered on RPF, and long before many of them had heard of the LP. He risked his own political future for the Libertarian Party, and of course paid the price, because the LP has difficulty getting anyone elected.
> 
> Here's how he ranks overall:
> 
> 
> 
> There already is one.


Where does Weld co-chairing the CFR task force to create a North American Union fit in your pretty picture?

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Where does Weld co-chairing the CFR task force to create a North American Union fit in your pretty picture?


Let's see where Donald fits in that pretty picture 


lololololol

----------


## RJ Liberty

> Let's see where Donald fits in that pretty picture 
> 
> 
> lololololol


LOL! 

I'd laugh harder, but Trump has a good chance to win this election. And there are actually folks at RPF attempting to make that happen.

----------


## jct74

Here's some more reporting from Weigel at the convention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...al-nomination/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...close-contest/



edit: also called into CSPAN this morning

http://www.c-span.org/video/?409879-...nal-convention

----------


## CPUd



----------


## andy2044

> 


Surprisingly, not the most embarrassing thing to come out of the convention.

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> By stripping?


It represents the federal agencies he would like to strip away?

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> Darrell Castle 2016!


This!

----------


## William Tell

> So today I learned "winning" is more important than principles.


 Winning would be one thing, but it is not even about winning. Its about trying to get 5 freaking percent. You could get over 5 percent in a house primary sitting on your butt.

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> Torch, don't ask anyone to try to sort that out. By the time the research is done, and the post made, Trump's position will have changed, rendering the post useless.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RJ Liberty again.

----------


## younglibertarian

> 


Who wants to start a write in campaign for this guy?

----------


## 69360

> 



It's like a significant faction in the LP wants to lose and never be taken seriously. 

This fat guy has every right to strip at the convention. Doesn't mean he should have.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> It's like a significant faction in the LP wants to lose and never be taken seriously.


That's exactly how it is.

And it's a problem in the liberty movement generally, not just the LP. 

A lot of people want to be edgy lifestyle libertarians more than they care about actual political change.

We all know the liberty movement needs to attract new members...

...but it also needs to shed some existing ones.

This stupid $#@! reflects on all of us and undermines serious political activity.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Sad I guess this site really will become Trump Forums.


You mean it's not already?

----------


## cajuncocoa

> The republican party controls who is in the debates. The LP is not allowed in the debates. Until that happens it doesn't matter what the LP does.


Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand?

----------


## William Tell

> It's like a significant faction in the LP wants to lose and never be taken seriously.


The majority it seems. A gun grabber for VP? I mean really???

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Darrell Castle 2016!





> This!


Nope. Sticking with LP ...my reasons match torch's. I'm not a party-over-principle voter, but (1) GJ isn't going to even win one state, and (2) this is about moving things forward for the future. Maybe if the liberty-minded people had stayed in the LP instead of trying (in vain) to take over the GOP there would have been a better candidate than GJ for the past 2 cycles, but this is what you get (there are only so many of us, after all)...Liberty-minded people abandoned the LP for the GOP; we got Bob Barr once and Gary Johnson for the LP twice, and didn't even get Ron or Rand for the GOP nomination in 3x trying.

I tried to tell y'all 4 years ago: the GOP doesn't want us.

----------


## afwjam

stripper chairman was the highlight of todays proceedings

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> Nope. Sticking with LP ...my reasons match torch's. I'm not a party-over-principle voter, but (1) GJ isn't going to even win one state, and (2) this is about moving things forward for the future. Maybe if the liberty-minded people had stayed in the LP instead of trying (in vain) to take over the GOP there would have been a better candidate than GJ for the past 2 cycles, but this is what you get (there are only so many of us, after all)...Liberty-minded people abandoned the LP for the GOP; we got Bob Barr once and Gary Johnson for the LP twice, and didn't even get Ron or Rand for the GOP nomination in 3x trying.
> 
> I tried to tell y'all 4 years ago: the GOP doesn't want us.


Grab the Guns and Bake the Cakes; I'm tired of loosing. Dempublicarian party 2016!

The "Libertarian" party really missed the boat though, they should have been nominating Bush and Obama so they could get into the debates.

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> stripper chairman was the highlight of todays proceedings


Sad but true.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> If you can't debate without being personally-insulting, you have no argument at all.


Imitation is such flattery.  Cute of you to copy what I sent you in the neg-rep you earned, both here, and in the retaliatory neg-rep you gave me.  Difference is, I did not insult you; you cannot say the same.




> Calling someone a POS isn't an "argument" and it's not a "fact". It's your opinion, but it's an incredibly goofy one, considering the authoritarian who you're supporting.


I have stated numerous times, and given links, to substantiate that opinion of Johnson and Weld.




> Yes you are. You've been pimping Trump for months. You pimp Trump, and you call other candidates names, all under the guide of "correcting lies" and "telling the truth".


No guise.  I recall that recent interview in which many here were claiming Trump held a position that was not proven by the interview at all.   So yeah, to refute them was telling the truth.

Case in point.




> Exhibit A.


Exhibit A of what?  You lost.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Grab the Guns and Bake the Cakes; I'm tired of loosing. Dempublicarian party 2016!
> 
> The "Libertarian" party really missed the boat though, *they should have been nominating Bush and Obama so they could get into the debates.*


I agree they missed the boat, but I don't get your sarcasm about Obama and Bush.  We're going to get another ObamaBush even if the LP didn't field a candidate in 2016.

----------


## 69360

> The majority it seems. A gun grabber for VP? I mean really???


I think his credibility as a governor brings more to the ticket than one past policy you don't agree with. He's not going to be vpotus, we all know that, so the whole he's gonna take yer guns thing is a moot point. 




> I agree they missed the boat, but I don't get your sarcasm about Obama and Bush.  We're going to get another ObamaBush even if the LP didn't field a candidate in 2016.


But maybe, 4 or 8 years from now we won't. A legitimate third party ticket is at least a step in the right direction.

----------


## Matt Collins

> This fat guy has every right to strip at the convention.


No he doesn't... the most appalling thing about this is that Party leadership did not have the mic cut off and removed him from the stage immediately. 

Every group of people have some that will pull a stunt like this. The LP's problem is that a large portion of their people don't understand basic human interaction and why this isn't a good idea. The even bigger problem is that the LP didn't have enough control over their convention to toss this guy.... I mean they even let him have the mic again when he was done..... 


This is a private organization and it was well within their authority to toss him when he started this.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> No he doesn't... the most appalling thing about this is that Party leadership did not have the mic cut off and removed him from the stage immediately. 
> 
> Every group of people have some that will pull a stunt like this. The LP's problem is that a large portion of their people don't understand basic human interaction and why this isn't a good idea. The even bigger problem is that the LP didn't have enough control over their convention to toss this guy.... I mean they even let him have the mic again when he was done..... 
> 
> 
> This is a private organization and it was well within their authority to toss him when he started this.


Libertarians aren't stuffy like blue-haired Republicans. I'll bet most people in that room thought it was funny. Oh, wait...excuse me. Republican women would never dye their hair bright blue.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> But maybe, 4 or 8 years from now we won't. A legitimate third party ticket is at least a step in the right direction.


That's what I'm hoping too.

----------


## phill4paul

> I was quoting what a speaker said at the LP CONVENTION.  If you don't like it, TOUGH!  I have taken the time to listen; if all you can do is to insult me for doing it, then you can go to Hell.


 Fine wit dat...Asking nothing, leave me be...

----------


## phill4paul

> Amen. The people in that room have had the dedication to stay engaged.  Those of us who tried to somehow meld into the Republican mob since 2007 can whine all we want to.  But look now! - the LP actually means something and we kind of missed the boat.


  Honestly, with a small amount of foresight we could have raised enough funds and awareness and Torchbearer could have been our presidential nominee.

----------


## phill4paul

> If you didn't bother to participate in that process, and you are bitching about it, what does that make you?


  She's not defending principles. She's defending her position for supporting Trump. Trying to antagonize you because she also chose a non-principled candidate. Non-principled candidates abound in this election cycle.

----------


## phill4paul

> Will write in Ron Paul.
> 
> Again.


  Looking more and more ^^^ THIS. At least one delegate in the first round had the balls to do so.

----------


## opal

This just in 
copy/pasted from a FB post




Per Alicia Dearn:
  "I learned that the poll companies and CPD stated that they wouldn't  include libertarians without Weld. They've agreed to include us if he's the pick. No Weld, and we get shut out again. 
 The GJ campaign didn't ask me to quit or tell me that. I got that message directly from someone outside the party.
  We can't fight for Liberty with our hands tied behind our backs. So I  asked Weld to swear to me that he wouldn't screw us. And he did. He  seemed sincere. I said real libertarians need a seat at the table and I  got his, Gary's and Ron's word that we would not be shut out and that  our principles would be protected.
 I did it so that we can have ballot access and make gains for all down line libertarians.
 It was force by non-libertarians but I took it so we can stop force and oppression going forward.
  It was awful. I'm not bullish on Weld and I was honest about that. But  we need to advance for the sake of liberty and the sake of our country.  I'd like to add that I learned this over the lunch recess while I was  working on my speech. I was fully prepared to move ahead and kick ass."


so.. stupidity AND blackmail

Gary.. get off the island!

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> This just in 
> copy/pasted from a FB post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Per Alicia Dearn:
>   "I learned that the poll companies and CPD stated that they wouldn't  include libertarians without Weld. They've agreed to include us if he's the pick. No Weld, and we get shut out again. 
>  The GJ campaign didn't ask me to quit or tell me that. I got that message directly from someone outside the party.
> ...


Oh, well if he gave his word.

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> I agree they missed the boat, but I don't get your sarcasm about Obama and Bush.  We're going to get another ObamaBush even if the LP didn't field a candidate in 2016.


Not sure what you mean, but my comment was about those on the thread who think getting into the debates is the only thing that matters, and is contingent on nominating non-libertarians. Johnson is still a little libertarian leaning compared to most politicians, and didn't get into the debates last time, so you guys are half-assing it. If the LP wants to trade its values for a debate stage then it should have gone all the way for maximum effect and picked George W. Bush in 2000 as the LP nominee, and Barack Obama in 2008 as the LP nominee. Hell, they should have nominated Trump this time around. If the LP doesn't nominate Hillary Clinton in 2020 we'll know they are losers who don't want a seat at the table.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Libertarians aren't stuffy like blue-haired Republicans. I'll bet most people in that room thought it was funny. Oh, wait...excuse me. Republican women would never dye their hair bright blue.


Yes, I thought it was funny too.... but it was also damaging to the LP (as if they weren't already damaged goods)

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Not sure what you mean, but my comment was about those on the thread who think getting into the debates is the only thing that matters, and is contingent on nominating non-libertarians. Johnson is still a little libertarian leaning compared to most politicians, and didn't get into the debates last time, so you guys are half-assing it. If the LP wants to trade its values for a debate stage then it should have gone all the way for maximum effect and picked George W. Bush in 2000 as the LP nominee, and Barack Obama in 2008 as the LP nominee. Hell, they should have nominated Trump this time around. If the LP doesn't nominate Hillary Clinton in 2020 we'll know they are losers who don't want a seat at the table.


Getting into the debates is very important, but not the only thing that matters. Nominating Romney, Bush, Obama, Clinton is not the only way to achieve name recognition.

----------


## jkob

That guy who stripped should of been thrown out the building, an embarrassment to the entire Libertarian Party who is desperate to be taken seriously.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> That guy who stripped should of been thrown out the building, an embarrassment to the entire Libertarian Party who is desperate to be taken seriously.


I agree. Not only was it unprofessional, I'm not even sure what the point was.

----------


## opal

> Getting into the debates is very important, but not the only thing that matters. Nominating Romney, Bush, Obama, Clinton is not the only way to achieve name recognition.


THIS^^^  Now with that in mind.. if any of the 50%ish  that nominated Gary Whiner Johnson were not GOP plants - they would have voted for the best, most attention getting speaker.  
AP is loud.. and speaks clearly but it's all meme speak.  
Darryl Perry - while I think he's pretty great and I get it, he  would reinforce the whole nut job perception of libertarianism.  
McAfee is close to unflappable, speaks slowly with conviction and belly laughs when something is absurd.  (picture that laugh - on stage - after Clinton answers anything techie)
 He's also the only realist that said several times during the convention that anyone that thinks a libertarian is going to walk into the white house is delusional.. that kind of pissed people off.

----------


## undergroundrr

It wasn't a great field. Honestly, I think GJ was the best of the batch at this one.

I think if AP sees a therapist and sorts out his bipolar issues, he'll be great in 8 or 12 years. 

McAfee honestly looked feeble to me at the convention. His voice quivered in his incoherent nomination speech like he was about to fall over (I also heard he had the flu or something). I think he's brilliant, but during the whole process, he has come across as somebody who's burned his brain a little with narcotics and is running out of physical energy. His clarity on not being in it to win it knocked him completely out of consideration.  Any candidate has to go full steam and fight like hell, ESPECIALLY if it's an educational campaign.

I totally get what turns people off about Johnson here.  To me, he's a libertarian, but with very different core beliefs than Ron Paul about where morality comes from.  GJ is areligious politically and probably personally. He's not apocalyptic about government, he just kind of sneers at it as absurd and counterproductive. He's also an incrementalist. In the same way that RP didn't campaign on abolishing social security, GJ isn't going to be striking down anti-discrimination laws any time soon, although he clearly agrees in principal that they're wrongheaded. If you listen to his discussion of transgender bathrooms on the Joe Rogan show, you get the clear picture that he thinks both sides are ridiculous and making something out of nothing.  He has no bigotry in his background and can pull massively from Hillary's support without selling the country to SJW's.

I'd be delighted to have Gary Johnson as POTUS. I really hope the American populace warms to him over the next few months.  If he keeps it together and gets the exposure, he's going to look very sensible compared to trumplary.  Worst case, he wins and gets assassinated LBJ/JFK-style by Weld.

----------


## jct74

Libertarian Party chair Nicholas Sarwark on MSNBC this morning




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeYbdP2CK-I

----------


## RJ Liberty

> THIS^^^  Now with that in mind.. if any of the 50%ish  that nominated Gary Whiner Johnson were not GOP plants - they would have voted for the best, most attention getting speaker.


They voted for the guy who led the party to a record number of voters last time, and who is currently polling ten times higher than that. The one who is garnering huge media attention like the LP has never seen.




> AP is loud.. and speaks clearly but it's all meme speak.  
> Darryl Perry - while I think he's pretty great and I get it, he  would reinforce the whole nut job perception of libertarianism.


No argument here. I'd just add that AP seemed very young, inexperienced, and a little weird.




> McAfee is close to unflappable, speaks slowly with conviction and belly laughs when something is absurd.  (picture that laugh - on stage - after Clinton answers anything techie)
>  He's also the only realist that said several times during the convention that anyone that thinks a libertarian is going to walk into the white house is delusional.. that kind of pissed people off.


No, I was more pissed off by McAfee repeatedly downplaying the LP's chances. If you want people to vote for you, your rally cry just shouldn't be "We can't possibly win! Now let's go out there and lose big time!" The fact that you don't do that is Leadership 101.

McAfee also has baggage that would prevent most people from voting for him, and from the media giving him a serious chance. We saw that already, with many stories referring to him as the candidate who is a "person of interest" in a murder in Belize.

----------


## jct74

ABC News coverage




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IawFHfqZI8

----------


## opal

My second biggest gripe with his nomination.. omg, his whining over the next few months will be very hard to take.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> Johnson is still a little libertarian leaning compared to most politicians


Well... "A little libertarian leaning"? Johnson was vetted on this forum four years ago, and he has a solid libertarian record. Ontheissues.org, a non-partisan website, rates Johnson firmly in the Libertarian quadrant.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Johnson was vetted on this forum four years ago


 Right, and we determined that he is a weasel and a *Fake*.




> He's also an incrementalist.


 Incrementalism is OK, perhaps, _if you are incrementing in the right direction!_  That's, umm, the bare minimum.  But Government Growth Gary believes in Big Government and demonstrably increments in the _wrong_ direction.  Here is what you will get with Government Growth Gary:






*Any questions?*

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> He's also an incrementalist. In the same way that RP didn't campaign on abolishing social security, GJ isn't going to be striking down anti-discrimination laws any time soon, although he clearly agrees in principal that they're wrongheaded.


No, he clearly agrees in principle that they are morally good and legally necessary; he couldn't be more clear on this. He has said on numerous occasions that the federal government needs to insert itself into such issues, and has also clearly laid out that government needs to enforce anti-discrimination laws. In but one example he said not only that Christian bakers should be forced by government to bake gay wedding cakes, but that Jews should be forced by government to bake Nazi cakes:

----------


## undergroundrr

> No, he clearly agrees in principle that they are morally good and legally necessary; he couldn't be more clear on this. He has said on numerous occasions that the federal government needs to insert itself into such issues, and has also clearly laid out that government needs to enforce anti-discrimination laws. In but one example he said not only that Christian bakers should be forced by government to bake gay wedding cakes, but that Jews should be forced by government to bake Nazi cakes:


For context, his clarification - 




> [A]nti-discrimination laws do not, and cannot, abridge fundamental First Amendment rights. I know of no one who reasonably disagrees. In the highly unlikely event that a Nazi would demand that a Jewish baker decorate a cake with a Nazi symbol, the courts, common sense, and common decency  not to mention the First Amendment  all combine to protect that baker from having to do so. Its not an issue, except when distorted for purposes of gotcha politics.
> 
> Does a public bakery have to sell a cake to a Nazi? Probably so. Does that bakery have to draw a swastika on it? Absolutely not. And thats the way it should be.
> 
> Of course, we all know that this conversation is really code for the current, and far more real, conversation about societys treatment of LGBT individuals. I have even heard some talk of a right to discriminate. And of course, we have states and municipalities today trying to create a real right to discriminate against the LGBT community on religious grounds  the same kinds of religious grounds that were used to defend racial segregation, forbid interracial marriages and, yes, defend discrimination against Jews by businesses. That is not a slope Libertarians want to go down.
> 
> Once again, my belief that discrimination on the basis of religion should not be allowed has been distorted by some to suggest that a legitimate church or its clergy should be forced to perform a same-sex marriage. That is absurd. The various ballot initiatives I supported across the country to repeal bans on same-sex marriage all had one provision in common: A specific provision making clear that no religious organization, priest or pastor could be required to perform any rite contrary to that organizations or individuals faith. That protection was supported almost universally by the LGBT community  even though most legal scholars agreed that such a protection already exists in the Constitution. We just wanted to leave no doubt.


I would agree with anybody who says that's not much of a clarification.  And I disagree with GJ that religions need to be protected by discrimination at the federal level.  But I also disagree with anybody who says GJ is crusading against constitutional free speech.  Be honest - people on RPF by and large aren't that bothered by bigotry and have a live and let live attitude toward $#@!s.  In the wider world, bigotry is hated intensely, even more than war or famine.  

NO libertarian communicator has been able to challenge the bad parts of the 1964 CRA in a compassionate way that makes it clear that the world will be a less contentious and more inclusive place without that legislation.  AP in that debate clip does the exact thing that gets INTJ paleocon fists pumping, but registers as Nazi to everybody else on Earth.  And then AP walks it back with a "some of my best friends are gay" thing.  Although I agree with AP and disagree with GJ, GJ actually won that one.

One of GJ's strengths is that he's not even going to get into a conversation about repealing non-discrimination laws.  And the brief bit he does is palatable and decent to people who hate, hate, hate, hate bigotry.  Meanwhile, he plows full steam ahead repealing drug laws, shrinking the MIC, auditing the Fed, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and please don't be offended, but 

MUH CAKES!!!

I've wanted to say that.

----------


## RJ Liberty

> MUH CAKES!!!


Bwahahahahaha!

Seriously, all that worry over gay nazi cakes.

----------


## devil21

Wait....so after all this time, people still think votes, parties and elections matter?  

Wake the hell up!  The President has already been chosen!  This whole gig is to make the sheep think that the selected President was the sheep's "choice".  THIS LAND MASS IS A CORPORATION AND THE LEADERS ARE CHOSEN BY THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, NOT YOU.  Only once you accept this and stop playing their stupid game by consenting to the mind$#@! will there ever be a real chance to change anything.  FFS!  Just vote harder!?

The LP 'picks' retread GJ and a top CFR globalist and folks are convinced this is progress if that ticket garners 3%?  Come on.  smh  The only way things will change for _you_ is for _you_ to opt out of the system.

----------


## opal

> snip
> 
> Wake the hell up!  The President has already been chosen!  snip


wait.. when was the Bilderberg meeting?

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> I have even heard some talk of a “right to discriminate.” And of course, we have states and municipalities today trying to create a real right to discriminate against the LGBT community on religious grounds — the same kinds of “religious” grounds that were used to defend racial segregation, forbid interracial marriages and, yes, defend discrimination against Jews by businesses. That is not a slope Libertarians want to go down.


 That is precisely the slope I want to go down, along with the vast majority of principled Misesians and Rothbardians.  And really, libertarians of all stripes -- minarchists and anarcho-capitalists alike.  Also many, many millions of conservatives.  Walter Williams would be all for repealing all the forced "integration" and affirmative action tyrannical diktats we suffer under.  Government Growth Gary is far less of a libertarian than he.

This pervert-mafia pandering is only a problem because this is such a big issue to *him*.  It's his big claim to libertarian cred.  "Look at me, I love and embrace perversion!  I want to force us all to bow down to and celebrate their madness!  I _must_ be libertarian!"  Other than that, it's not that huge a deal to me, or the rest of his detractors.  *It's a huge deal to him.*  We're not the ones blowing gays out of proportion --* he is.*

Here is what really is the big issue: I do not believe he stands for shrinking the government.  I believe he stands for Government Growth.  That's why he's Government Growth Gary.  You say:



> Meanwhile, he plows full steam ahead repealing drug laws, shrinking the MIC, auditing the Fed, etc. etc. etc.


And I guess my problem is I really don't believe that.  Not for a minute.  I don't see him doing that, were he to be President.  Not at all.  Why not?  Because he sure as shootin' didn't do it as governor.  Here is his record:





_That's_ what Gary Johnson stands for.  *Government Growth.*  And that's what I cannot abide nor countenance.  That is my sworn enemy.

----------


## undergroundrr

@helmuth_hubener I don't have huge disagreement with what you said, other than that GJ's quote about discrimination is misattributed to me.  I understand your dismay, but I still think this is a choose-your-battle situation.  He will continue to be taken to task about it by antagonistic ancaps and paleos.  Normally, a libertarian could be expected to take votes from republicans.  Because of his clear social liberalism and clear fiscal conservatism (at least in rhetoric), I think GJ will draw pretty equally from republicrats.

I've seen you post those charts a couple times.  Why did you go up to 2010?  I can understand looking at a couple years after he left office in 2003, but the sharp upturn in the ensuing years counters your point a little.  I think to some extent we're looking at a fiscal conservative doing his damnedest in a very blue state with huge majority progressive legislators 180 degrees opposed to any fiscal restraint.  

One other indicator that you might look at is overall welfare spending, which skyrocketed under his democrat predecessor and was kept pretty steady and even decreased in some years by GJ even given inflation and an almost 30% rise in population (and 10% of NM's population is foreign born from Mexico).  This in spite of (as I understand it) being shot down constantly in his efforts to push through conservative welfare reform.  It indicates that for anyone who wants to work toward an immigration solution by cutting off welfare opportunities rather than wall-building, GJ is a good option.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> @helmuth_hubener I don't have huge disagreement with what you said, other than that GJ's quote about discrimination is misattributed to me.


 That was not my intent!  I just had to remove it out of its nested quote to quote it, since RPFs quoting only goes one layer deep, I think.  Hopefully no one was confused by that.  It was of course Gary Johnson's statement I was responding to, not you.




> I've seen you post those charts a couple times.  Why did you go up to 2010?  I can understand looking at a couple years after he left office in 2003, but the sharp upturn in the ensuing years counters your point a little.  I think to some extent we're looking at a fiscal conservative doing his damnedest in a very blue state with huge majority progressive legislators 180 degrees opposed to any fiscal restraint.


 For context.  Can you spot Government Growth Gary's term in office in that chart?  It's the period when the growth is much lower.

Can't?  

Neither can I.

It is a standard exponential growth curve.  The rate of growth was roughly the same before, after, and during Government Growth Gary.  You say it increased afterward, but no, percentage-wise it does not.  Exponential growth curves are _curved_, while the rate of growth remains constant.

You could say "but, but, he really wanted to cut and just couldn't with the legislature!"  My research shows that turns out to not be the case.  He could have easily vetoed spending bills.  He didn't.  He just didn't.  He could have.  But he didn't.

Now how is Mr. Johnson going to reduce federal spending as President if he is unwilling to veto all the ridiculous, outrageous, spend-thrift spending bills Congress sends him?  You tell me.  I'm pretty creative, but I see no way to do it.  Other than that: vetoing spending bills.  And he has demonstrated -- clear as crystal, for almost a decade -- he is not willing to do that.

What's more, New Mexico has one of the strongest line-item vetoes in the nation.  He could have cherry-picked off items from the budget and reduced them *tremendously* and it would have been very difficult for the legislature to do anything about it.  But he used that line-item veto very sparingly.  He did not make any meaningful cuts with it.  Zip.  Essentially, zip.  Like .0001 of the budget.

That's, like, why the New Mexico government kept growing.  Go figure!  It's not rocket science.

I can clearly see that cutting the government is not a priority for him.  At all.  But it's the _only_ priority for me.  That's what I want.  Cut.  The.  Government.  Thus, Government Growth Gary and I just do not see eye to eye, despite his rhetoric (read: *LIES*).

*Fake.*

----------


## The Rebel Poet

> Well... "A little libertarian leaning"? Johnson was vetted on this forum four years ago, and he has a solid libertarian record. Ontheissues.org, a non-partisan website, rates Johnson firmly in the Libertarian quadrant.


For context, let's make some comparisons:

They rate Johnson as MORE libertarian than Ron Paul:

I doubt there is a single person who doesn't know that's wrong. This shows that you have to account for a margin of error with OnTheIssues. I'm not denying that he is in the libertarian quadrant, but he clearly isn't so far in it if he thinks government should dictate whom you must bake for.

----------


## nickpruitt

You will not hear this said in any of the major 2 party conventions coming up.

----------


## eleganz

> You will not hear this said in any of the major 2 party conventions coming up.


They know they don't win any elections so they are left with pointless circle jerking like the above video.

----------


## nickpruitt

Both political parties don't even get the taxation is theft as a concept because both parties and most people right now believe in a social contract theory. It's a serious matter libertarians and free minded people need to get changed because till then liberals and conservatives will continue to destroy liberties.

----------


## opal

> Both political parties don't even get the taxation is theft as a concept because both parties and most people right now believe in a social contract theory. It's a serious matter libertarians and free minded people need to get changed because till then liberals and conservatives will continue to destroy liberties.


Except Gary.. he'd like to continue with the "security net" for disadvantaged citizens

----------


## William Tell

> MUH CAKES!!!
> 
> I've wanted to say that.


MUH LIBERTEA!!!

Haha, property rights and freedom of conscience is so last century. Only old foggy congressmen care about that $#@!.

----------

