# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  A carton of cigarettes costs me ~$5 - $8

## nayjevin

200 Cigarette Tubes = $2.50

2-3 cartons worth of tobacco = $10

Cigarette stuffing machine = $5 - 80 (I bought the cheapie by TOP it's fine) EDIT: I got the ~$100 Powermatic II and it's well worth it!


I go to my local tobacco store and I buy pipe tobacco cause it's cheaper in my state and tastes similar enough for me.  IMO, the cigarettes taste better than the cheapest brands of pre-stuffed cigarettes and not quite as good as the medium brands (doral, pall mall, l & m) but for me I get used to any cigarette after about a carton.  Long story short right now these cigarettes taste as good to me as any, but some would be more particular than me.  Also you can buy more expensive tobacco, which presumably has 'superior' quality and tastes better to most people.

Saves me a ton of money, but it does take some time each day to stuff the cigarettes.

Thought some smokers around here might be interested in trying it out, and curious if anyone else does this and knows a place to save even more by ordering online, or has any tips on a good machine, etc.

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## evilfunnystuff

> 200 Cigarette Tubes = $2.50
> 
> 2-3 cartons worth of tobacco = $10
> 
> Cigarette stuffing machine = $5 - 80 (I bought the cheapie by TOP it's fine)
> 
> 
> I go to my local tobacco store and I buy pipe tobacco cause it's cheaper in my state and tastes similar enough for me.  IMO, the cigarettes taste better than the cheapest brands of pre-stuffed cigarettes and not quite as good as the medium brands (doral, pall mall, l & m) but for me I get used to any cigarette after about a carton.  Long story short right now these cigarettes taste as good to me as any, but some would be more particular than me.  Also you can buy more expensive tobacco, which presumably has 'superior' quality and tastes better to most people.
> 
> ...


If possible get a good machine one of these may cost about 30-40 bux, but it's well worth it. You will be able to easily do a carton in an hour.

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## nayjevin

> If possible get a good machine one of these may cost about 30-40 bux, but it's well worth it. You will be able to easily do a carton in an hour.


That would make a big difference for me, I think with the $5 TOP machine I can make a pack of 20 smokes in about 15 minutes.  This is the one I have:

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## Mark37snj

Here is an electric machine that makes a pack in less than 2 minutes. Different settings for compactness and cig type. I currently use one like the one posted above but will be buying this one soon.

http://www.freshchoicetobacco.com/machines.html

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## nayjevin

> Here is an electric machine that makes a pack in less than 2 minutes. Different settings for compactness and cig type. I currently use one like the one posted above but will be buying this one soon.
> 
> http://www.freshchoicetobacco.com/machines.html





> *In 1998 we decided that the world needed an  electric home appliance that would make cigarettes.*
>  An electric cigarette machine would free smokers from dependence on  factory made cigarettes that contained chemical additives and  reconstituted tobacco. Our requirements for an electric cigarette  machine were:
> 
> *- The machine needed to make good, safe cigarettes.**- The only electric cigarette machine on the  market at the time made cigarettes that created an unsafe ash and burned  the smoker’s clothes***- It must make a pack of perfect cigarettes in LESS than two minutes.**- The machine must cost a reasonable amount of money in relation to the savings produced by making cigarettes on the machine.**- It must operate reliably over an extended period of time.**- It could be operated by almost anyone with ease.*
>  It took us eight years to develop, patent,  perfect, and produce the Fresh Choice Electric Cigarette Machine.  Smokers tell us that the final product meets our requirements.


Whoaaa... the rolls royce of cigarette machines.   I had no idea those existed... thanks!

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## Tod

Anyone grow their own tobacco?  My grandfather did that a long time ago.  If it is anything like growing garden vegetables, I'd think the product would be much better.

Tod
(not a tobacco user)

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## RockEnds

I buy American Spirits organic tobacco and roll my own.  A pouch costs between $8 - $12 depending on where I buy it and lasts about two weeks.

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## HankXavier

Awesome way to save money if not your life.

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## Cap

Fascinating.

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## Jingles

Wow, that's awesome. Maybe I'll do that myself (although I would buy menthol tubes). Went from Camel Wides to Camel Crush to Camel Menthol to Newports to Newport 100's currently over the course of about 6 years or so.

My friend's dad used to roll his own and I did like them quite a bit. Ah, the nights we would hang out at his house get drunk, then his dad would come home and end up drinking beer with us while telling us stories in his garage. Good times. Next time I'm back in PA, I should buy him a drink at the bar.

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## puppetmaster

> Here is an electric machine that makes a pack in less than 2 minutes. Different settings for compactness and cig type. I currently use one like the one posted above but will be buying this one soon.
> 
> http://www.freshchoicetobacco.com/machines.html


I sell these so if anyone wants one let me know. I have everything you need and i have the best product and prices.

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## tod evans

I switched to a pipe several years ago, here's where I buy my tobacco.

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## Revolution9

> I buy American Spirits organic tobacco and roll my own.  A pouch costs between $8 - $12 depending on where I buy it and lasts about two weeks.


Same here. The ritual of the roll stops just flinging one into the piehole and firing it up mindlessly. Great for computer nerds as they go out if yer not puffing them and if you light up a one month old butt it tastes fine. I go through about two pouches a week...14 hours a day seven days a week in front of computer.

Rev9

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## Salutary7

> Anyone grow their own tobacco?  My grandfather did that a long time ago.  If it is anything like growing garden vegetables, I'd think the product would be much better.


I hear it can be pretty good since you have control over the plant nutrition. You just can't sell it because of all the codes/taxes involved.

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## Perry

Used to smoke top(for 17 years) but quit a few years back. Best thing I've ever done for myself. The freedom to smoke is great but the freedom to have the ability to actually run and do other types of fitness is even more wonderful(not to mention the other obvious health benefits).

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## tod evans

> Same here. The ritual of the roll stops just flinging one into the piehole and firing it up mindlessly. Great for computer nerds as they go out if yer not puffing them and if you light up a one month old butt it tastes fine. I go through about two pouches a week...14 hours a day seven days a week in front of computer.
> 
> Rev9



Oh geeze......please try some Peter Stokkebye! You'll be forever grateful.

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## jm1776

Roll your own or buy a manual machine and tubes and start cutting your tobacco with organic peppermint leaves.

http://www.frontiercoop.com/products...permint%20Leaf

Tastes and smokes great! Eventually cut 100% and enjoy the smoking experience without the nicotine addition! Or just quit all together. Tis easy at that point. 

Burning peppermint smells a bit like bad pot so be ware!

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## LibertyRevolution

My state government is really trying to crack down on that pipe tobacco loophole.
This had become so popular that the tobacco shops brought in cig rolling machines.
These stores rent you the use of the machine after you buy your tobacco and tubes.
The state is not happy. They want them to pay tax on them as if they were pre-made cigs at $3.40 to a pack of 20.
In fact they are going so far as to call these mom and pop tobacco shops "manufactures" and want to tax them as if they are philip morris. 

NOTE: The tobacco shops own the rolling machines. They rent you the machine for 10mins to roll your own cigs with your own stuff.
The tobacco shop WILL NOT roll your cigs for you. They do not manufacture cigs. They are only RENTING you the rolling machines.

http://articles.courant.com/2011-12-...-tobacco-shops

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## Elwar

I have been to a local shop where you buy the tobacco and you put it into the machine and it spits out enough for a carton.

Costs $25.

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## musicmax

> I hear it can be pretty good since you have control over the plant nutrition. You just can't sell it because of all the codes/taxes involved.


Smokers concerned about nutrition?  My irony meter just self-destructed.

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## Tod

> Smokers concerned about nutrition?  My irony meter just self-destructed.


LOL

I think the concern is about taste

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## Salutary7

> Smokers concerned about nutrition?  My irony meter just self-destructed.


What I meant was the nutrition the plant gets from the soil. That will affect the quality and character of the final product.

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## Greg Buchanan

You can save some money by using hand rolling tobacco and rolling them by hand, which takes about 30 seconds.

One downside is you don't have a filter, on the plus side.. you'll get all the nutrients!

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## Mark37snj

> What I meant was the nutrition the plant gets from the soil. That will affect the quality and character of the final product.


Yup, it controls the level of nicotine in the plant, very important.

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## Revolution9

> Oh geeze......please try some Peter Stokkebye! You'll be forever grateful.


I was lucky to find AS in a pouch up here. 99.9% packaged smokes and I will quit before i smoke them regularly. I don't like the AS blue can as it is harsher even though it sports the same blue as the pouch. The red is satisfying but if you smoke more than four a day you will feel the burn. If I go hiking for extended period I will get the black perique as it will nicotine buzz you which is good for night campfire lounging. I will see if they have the brand at the local tobacco shop. It seems they won't sell online so.. I tired some of their bulk tobacco prerolled and I didn't like the flavor..too green. The best tobacco smoke I ever had was these stogies about 6 inches that smelled like molasses and fruit and took a few hours to smoke and tasted like good heavy hashy sinse. The guy rolled a batch once a year after a six month cure in some kinda barrel from just leaves. I would buy a fistful if I could find similar.

Rev9

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## Revolution9

> Smokers concerned about nutrition?  My irony meter just self-destructed.


Smokers never get anemia and it is the only herb that causes the formation of red blood cells in the spleen. It kills pneumococcus bacteria on contact as well as tuberculosis. It is why old jailers would let their prisoners smoke. Interestingly nicotine is an alkaloid and nicotinic acid is ...an acid. Flip a hydrogen or two on one molecule and you have the other. Nicotinic acid is B-12. We are basically a hydrolizing flask. As well it is proven that nicotine speeds up neuronal transmission as well as causing 75% more signal to course through the dendrites. Army doctors would recommend smoking a cigarette or two to soldiers complaining of trench lung so as to dry out the lungs. It is a common gift to old folks in regions it grow indigenously as it stops the onset of senility, shaking diseases and keeps the mental processes sharp by keeping the dopamine receptor sites active.

Rev9

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## RockEnds

I like the American Spirit brand because it's just tobacco.  I have chemical sensitivities, and I honestly cannot smoke the brands that have all the chemicals.  If I'm out of tobacco, I can't bum a smoke.  It really, really makes me sick to smoke anything else except Winston.  And I greatly prefer to roll my own.  I would rather do that than smoke the pre-rolled.  Those things go up in smoke before I have a chance to take a second drag.  I don't care for them.

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## GunnyFreedom

> I buy American Spirits organic tobacco and roll my own.  A pouch costs between $8 - $12 depending on where I buy it and lasts about two weeks.


I smoke American Spirit by the pack.  If you have to smoke (I have been drawing down, takes 3-5 days for me to go through a pack now) American Spirit really is the way to go.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Wow, that's awesome. Maybe I'll do that myself (although I would buy menthol tubes). Went from Camel Wides to Camel Crush to Camel Menthol to Newports to Newport 100's currently over the course of about 6 years or so.
> 
> My friend's dad used to roll his own and I did like them quite a bit. Ah, the nights we would hang out at his house get drunk, then his dad would come home and end up drinking beer with us while telling us stories in his garage. Good times. Next time I'm back in PA, I should buy him a drink at the bar.


American Spirit makes a natural menthol with filter crystals you can crush to make stronger.

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## Roxi

> Smokers concerned about nutrition?  My irony meter just self-destructed.



Oh please... just because you do one unhealthy thing doesn't mean you can't be concerned about other unhealthy things. There's a lot of people who try to eat as healthy as they can and avoid chemicals, but still can't kick the cigarette habit. Cigarettes are nasty yes, but you would still want to try to keep everything else as healthy as possible.

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## Suzu

I've been rolling my own by hand since 1972. Sometimes cut in up to 50% desert sage which is a really nice variation on plain tobacco. There are many clean pipe tobaccos without additives sold in 1-lb. bags for about $10-$15. One lb. makes almost 3 cartons' worth of cigs depending on how thick you roll em. I roll more tobacco into the fire end and very little into the mouth end. Sort of an elongated cone shape. Makes for much less waste. Bugler papers by the box (24 packs, 115 papers/pack) runs about $19, and 5 packs of papers will roll a pound of tobacco. Total cost per "pack" comes to roughly 69 cents. That's cheaper than Mexican cigarettes (most of which are very good).

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## SpicyTurkey

Good stuff. My dad owns a couple of supermarkets, and I would love it if you tell me where I can order that brand that the OP mentioned. If its possible.

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## nayjevin

> Good stuff. My dad owns a couple of supermarkets, and I would love it if you tell me where I can order that brand that the OP mentioned. If its possible.


The silver tip in the picture was just the first pic I found, I think the last brand I bought was gambler, but there are a bunch of different kinds, 100's and kings or menthol.  The tobacco I've been getting is Ronseco or Rouseco, not sure because of the font.  But there are gobs of tobacco brands to choose from too.

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## John F Kennedy III

> 200 Cigarette Tubes = $2.50
> Attachment 1216
> 2-3 cartons worth of tobacco = $10
> 
> Cigarette stuffing machine = $5 - 80 (I bought the cheapie by TOP it's fine)
> 
> 
> I go to my local tobacco store and I buy pipe tobacco cause it's cheaper in my state and tastes similar enough for me.  IMO, the cigarettes taste better than the cheapest brands of pre-stuffed cigarettes and not quite as good as the medium brands (doral, pall mall, l & m) but for me I get used to any cigarette after about a carton.  Long story short right now these cigarettes taste as good to me as any, but some would be more particular than me.  Also you can buy more expensive tobacco, which presumably has 'superior' quality and tastes better to most people.
> 
> ...


I simply get a 1 pound bag of  Red River pipe tobacco for $18.99 and 5 books of 100 TOP papers at $1 each (not online).

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## nayjevin

There's a place to rent use of a $32,000 electronic cigarette rolling machine here at $22/carton.  A full carton takes about 8 minutes, and there's an electronic touchpad computerized system to control the density of tobacco within the tube.  The inside looks like a gatling gun, rotating and stuffing tubes, then dropping them out the front.  Neat!

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## tod evans

Try a pipe.......You'll be able to smoke fresh tobacco in a variety of blends for only a fraction of the cost of cigs.

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## XNavyNuke

I've raised it. It grows amazingly fast once the weather warms up. The only pest problem I experienced was leaf worms. Easy enough to manage organically with a BT spray. A selection of cultivars are available through Pinetree Garden Seeds. https://www.superseeds.com/products.php?search=tobacco

The seeds are extremely tiny. If you've ever started petunias from seed - about the same. Start indoors on sterile medium under grow lights. Carefully thin to individual cups once the seedlings are about an inch tall. The plants get huge. Mine were about 6 feet tall and 3 feet in diameter. For container gardeners, I'd suggest 2 gallon pots or 5 gallon buckets with holes drilled in the bottom.

XNN




> Anyone grow their own tobacco?  My grandfather did that a long time ago.  If it is anything like growing garden vegetables, I'd think the product would be much better.
> 
> Tod
> (not a tobacco user)

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## airborne373

Smokers? I did not know that smokers was a collective group that should be identified and scorned? You might want to search anti - smoking supporters of the past before joining that inglorious group of cowards and mass killers.

P.S. I know smoking does not healthy. That is not my point and those on this board should damn well know that.

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## SpiritOf1776_J4

I stopped smoking a long time ago, but recently bought an electronic cigarette, and it seems you could get as cheap or cheaper with those - plus they seem kindof nice to me the way they are constructed. No cancer causing additives, just nicotine - which while can raise blood pressure but not usually associated with the other.

The one positive aspect it has that a burning cigerette will never have is you can put it down, and not waste anything.  So you are for instance not under the felt obligation to smoke the whole cig at once.

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## nayjevin

I still smoke these, it's at the point now where they always taste good, but any other cigarette tastes better.  So it's saved me a bunch of money, and made all other cheap cigarettes taste like premiums.

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## kathy88

> There's a place to rent use of a $32,000 electronic cigarette rolling machine here at $22/carton.  A full carton takes about 8 minutes, and there's an electronic touchpad computerized system to control the density of tobacco within the tube.  The inside looks like a gatling gun, rotating and stuffing tubes, then dropping them out the front.  Neat!


There was a thread not too long ago here about the government trying to outlaw the use of those machines in roll your own shops. Getting too close to big tobacco profits.

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## Acala

This thread makes me want to start smoking just so I can mess around with the herb and some gadgets.

So does this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipWlbvtrVk

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## nayjevin

Cost me about $8 now.  I get throat and headaches from box cigarettes, I wonder if it's a lack of additives?

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## tod evans

> Cost me about $8 now.  I get throat and headaches from box cigarettes, *I wonder if it's a lack of additives*?


Burnt carpet glue is yummy....

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## pcosmar

> Cost me about $8 now.  I get throat and headaches from box cigarettes, I wonder if it's a lack of additives?


About what it is costing here, every 2 weeks.

Gambler Pipe tobacco and tubes (best price locally),, and still using the plastic TOP machine from several years ago.

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## Origanalist

> About what it is costing here, every 2 weeks.
> 
> Gambler Pipe tobacco and tubes (best price locally),, and still using the plastic TOP machine from several years ago.



Red River @ $18.00 a pound and I broke down and bought one of these, no regrets on the money spent. It comes to about 12 to 13 dollars a carton with taxes.

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## dannno

> Anyone grow their own tobacco?  My grandfather did that a long time ago.  If it is anything like growing garden vegetables, I'd think the product would be much better.
> 
> Tod
> (not a tobacco user)


I grew some a few years ago when I had a big gardening area. I didn't smoke tobacco anymore really but I dried out a ton of leaves and stored them for a while in case SHTF I figured there would be some people desperate for cigs. I grew them next to some tomato plants. I don't think I ever got a fine enough shred on the tobacco to roll a really good cigarette, but what I grew was definitely very potent tasting.

When I did smoke tobacco, I did roll my own and was a big fan of DRUM.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Burnt carpet glue is yummy....


I believe even the Zig Zag etc. tubes are regulated to be FSC.

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## tod evans

> I believe even the Zig Zag etc. tubes are regulated to be FSC.


My briar is regulation free!

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## Origanalist

> I believe even the Zig Zag etc. tubes are regulated to be FSC.


The tubes I use are not labeled as FSC, but I'm really not sure one way or the other.

Edit;
According to this website, the brand I use (premier) are not.

http://www.stuffyourown.com/cigarettetubes.html

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## kcchiefs6465

> The tubes I use are not labeled as FSC, but I'm really not sure one way or the other.
> 
> Edit;
> According to this website, the brand I use (premier) are not.
> 
> http://www.stuffyourown.com/cigarettetubes.html


Good to know. I'm going to purchase the Powermatic II here in a couple of days.

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## nayjevin

> Good to know. I'm going to purchase the Powermatic II here in a couple of days.




Powermatic II - I had forgotten that I didn't recommend this - this is the machine that I bought.  It is fantastic.  Makes about 5 cigarettes per minute.  It's more than paid for itself, and has a warranty.  The quality is obvious when you use it, the lever is strong, and it doesn't take long to get used to using it so that it won't jam.  If it does, it has the tools to clear it fairly quickly.  I am really satisfied with this product.

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## eduardo89

This is the cigarette machine I use:



At maximum speed it can make 120 packs per minute.

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## Occam's Banana

> Burnt carpet glue is yummy....


I had a friend in high school who tried smoking a wad of burlappy carpet padding wrapped up in notebook paper.
This might have been one of those times when one us managed to get our hands on a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 ...

(Ahhhhh, memories!)

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## Natural Citizen

You guys are probably all going to die slow painful deaths if you don't quit smoking.

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## kcchiefs6465

> You guys are probably all going to die slow painful deaths if you don't quit smoking.


I doubt it.

Thanks for your kind words.

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## pcosmar

> You guys are probably all going to die slow painful deaths if you don't quit smoking.


I expected to be dead before 30. the last 26 have been gravy.

Though another winter like the last and I may be ready to quit.

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## TheGrinch

I bought one of the Topomatic machines a while back along with my switch to American Spirit organic tobacco.  I can tell you I felt much better not having all the additives and tubes that don't have that firesafe carpet glue crap.  Feel healthier, and feel satisfied after smoking one, rather than almost immediately craving another.

Problem was you have to have some time to sit down for a while and roll a bunch of them, or else you have to take about 30 minutes every time you want a pack.  Very interested in electronic one to let it do all the work instead, because it got to the point that the time wasn't worth the $2.50 a pack I saved (of course you can save way more if you go with cheaper tobacco, but for me, it kind of defeated the purpose to eliminate the FSC glue and not the additives, and I love everything about the American spirits tobacco).  Though it is really nice if you're low on tobacco or smokes, you just put less in and make more shorter smokes.

If you can pop on a movie, TV or music and roll a bunch of them at a time, or if you're not a heavy smoker, then one like the Topomatic will work just fine, but for me the electronic one sounds perfect. I can then re-purpose the manual one for something else

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## opal

so.. where are y'all getting the organic American Spirit tobacco?  (please say some on line source)
 Hubby and I had both quit in favor of vaping but sadly, he's back to the pall malls *gag*  If I can get him to use a better quality tobacco - and roll his own it would be great .. just finding the packs of American spirit is tough around here

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## TheGrinch

> so.. where are y'all getting the organic American Spirit tobacco?  (please say some on line source)
>  Hubby and I had both quit in favor of vaping but sadly, he's back to the pall malls *gag*  If I can get him to use a better quality tobacco - and roll his own it would be great .. just finding the packs of American spirit is tough around here


Discount tobacco store, and there's also a headshop nearby that carries some too.  Not sure if you can order online. If you got a place that carries other tobacco, just ask if they'll carry it if you buy it.

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## nayjevin

> I bought one of the Topomatic machines a while back along with my switch to American Spirit organic tobacco.  I can tell you I felt much better not having all the additives and tubes that don't have that firesafe carpet glue crap.  Feel healthier, and feel satisfied after smoking one, rather than almost immediately craving another.
> 
> Problem was you have to have some time to sit down for a while and roll a bunch of them, or else you have to take about 30 minutes every time you want a pack.  Very interested in electronic one to let it do all the work instead, because it got to the point that the time wasn't worth the $2.50 a pack I saved (of course you can save way more if you go with cheaper tobacco, but for me, it kind of defeated the purpose to eliminate the FSC glue and not the additives, and I love everything about the American spirits tobacco).  Though it is really nice if you're low on tobacco or smokes, you just put less in and make more shorter smokes.
> 
> If you can pop on a movie, TV or music and roll a bunch of them at a time, or if you're not a heavy smoker, then one like the Topomatic will work just fine, but for me the electronic one sounds perfect. I can then re-purpose the manual one for something else


Yeah, it was worth it to me to use the manual cigarette stuffers but the electronic one even moreso.  I buy fewer packs now then I did then, from not being able to get home and stuff enough.  And it is wayyy faster.  It used to be a chore and now I'll have a half pack before I think about the fact that I'm doing it.

I smoke about the same amount and haven't noticed a change in cravings myself.

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## Suzu

If you really want to cut down, try rolling each *** just before you light it.

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## brandon

I've switched to about 75% vaping now. Still have 3 cigs or so a day... more when I drink. But vaping the rest of the time. Save a bit but it's just nice not smelling like smoke all the time.

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## nayjevin

> I've switched to about 75% vaping now. Still have 3 cigs or so a day... more when I drink. But vaping the rest of the time. Save a bit but it's just nice not smelling like smoke all the time.


I would be doing that if these cigarette stuffing machines didn't exist, if they tasted more like a real cigarette, or if they didn't have nicotine in them.  I still may eventually try to cut down with one of those e-cigs.

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## opal

> I would be doing that if these cigarette stuffing machines didn't exist, if they tasted more like a real cigarette, or if they didn't have nicotine in them.  I still may eventually try to cut down with one of those e-cigs.


I can't help ya with the taste like real cigs thing but you don't have to use juice with nicotine in it.  Most vape juice vendors have a no nicotine option - I use a lot of no nic juice.. I vape WAY more than I smoked.

There seems to be a general consensus among vapers that the gas station /  convenience store e cigs (blu - njoy etc) are basic crap in both quality and taste.  There are a few vendors around that use *NET juice.. naturally extracted tobacco and those seem to get the most attention from folks that seek tobacco flavors - my flavor profile for vaping is sweet stuff.. just not fruit flavors

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## nayjevin

> I can't help ya with the taste like real cigs thing but you don't have to use juice with nicotine in it.  Most vape juice vendors have a no nicotine option - I use a lot of no nic juice.. I vape WAY more than I smoked.
> 
> There seems to be a general consensus among vapers that the gas station /  convenience store e cigs (blu - njoy etc) are basic crap in both quality and taste.  There are a few vendors around that use *NET juice.. naturally extracted tobacco and those seem to get the most attention from folks that seek tobacco flavors - my flavor profile for vaping is sweet stuff.. just not fruit flavors


Thanks, interesting.  There's a new vapor cigarette store in my area, and I went to ask a few questions and try some flavors, but didn't realize I could cut out the nicotine while doing it.  May try again!

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## nayjevin

> Powermatic II - I had forgotten that I didn't recommend this - this is the machine that I bought.  It is fantastic.  Makes about 5 cigarettes per minute.  It's more than paid for itself, and has a warranty.  The quality is obvious when you use it, the lever is strong, and it doesn't take long to get used to using it so that it won't jam.  If it does, it has the tools to clear it fairly quickly.  I am really satisfied with this product.


I have a few tips on using the Powermatic.  Probably not much if anything an owner of the machine wouldn't figure out themselves, but might save someone some time.

I have it in a box that's a little more than double it's size with the tray attached.  If I find sticks in the tobacco I can just throw them aside into the box, and it never spills like a tray would.  When I'm not using the machine my box of tubes fits in the other half.  Keeps them from getting bent up or spilled, which is really frustrating as they're harder to put on the machine after they've been bent, and harder to grab when they're pickup sticks.  When a tube does get wrinkled, grabbing it between two fingers near the filter and smoothing out all the way to the top, then turning it, and doing it again, usually makes it loadable again.

When loading a tube, I hold it at an angle, but parallel to the table/floor, and grab one part of the tube onto the longest part of the metal loading insert.  Then I turn the tube so it is parallel with the chamber, and push it on - even if it is slightly wrinkled on the end, it almost always goes on with a twist (this surprises me, and is critical to being able to make a cigarette at home in the first place.)

The main way the machine gets jammed is when you press the tobacco down too hard - not when you press too many times.  I just use my fingers to load the tobacco.  I have it in my mind now what is the hardest I should press, and I press that hard as many times as it takes (with three fingers) to feel the desired resistance when it is full.  On the first push, I push down, then side to side to get a little bit of tobacco against the outside edges of the chamber.  This helps my 100's tubes get fully and properly filled.

The main tool I use is the wire spiral brush.  This is for jams.  About two jams per bag of tobacco, which is 2-3 cartons.  Turn off the machine, open the lever all the way, shove the spiral brush in the chamber from the outside where the filter tube goes, then use the tip of the same tool to slide across underneath the ridge on the front side of the chamber, where your fingers go when loading - and pull some of the tobacco up and out of the chamber onto the loading tray - or it might jam again.  If it has jammed from a stick, only pushing the brush in from the outside through the tube loading insert will often not clear the problem - no matter how many times you go back and forth. Turn on the machine, pull down the lever, and let it flush out the now loose tobacco.

As you get to the bottom of a bag of tobacco, the remaining portion becomes finer and finer cut, as it settles.  The very top tobacco is long strings, and will compress in the chamber - the bottom of the bag is much smaller pieces that don't rebound like the fluffy stuff.  So I press less with my fingers toward the bottom of the bag.  It's much easier to make the machine jam by pushing in too much tobacco when the pieces are so small.

When pulling the lever with my right hand, I hold the machine with my left, simultaneously putting the pinky of my left hand very slightly on the tube - to provide just enough resistance to avoid a half-filled cigarette.  After the cigarette is complete, I twist the end to avoid losing tobacco in the pack and ending up with a bunch of flaccid difficulty at the end of the day.  More effective, messy, and time consuming is to additionally pack a handful at a time on the table as they complete and twist them again.

A bag of tobacco is still fresh when opened after 2 months.  That's the longest I've tried.  If the bag is left open, it will dry out surprisingly quickly, and becomes easier to jam as described above (doesn't rebound as much.)  The taste is also different, but I don't find it intolerable.  Resealing the bag, when it's ziploc style, keeps it surprisingly fresh, and fresh enough for me, for as long as it takes me to go through it, about a month.  I suppose one could store it in smaller mason jars for maximum freshness.  When I make 100 cigarettes or so at a time I store them this way.

About half of the cigarettes made, the way I make them, leave a noticeable gap of no tobacco right near the filter.  This can be remedied while making the cigarette by stuffing more tobacco into the sides of the chamber, I find this time-consuming and unpleasurable to my fingers (as the chamber has a sharp edge).  A tool would be effective but more time consuming.  I choose to do my best without touching the sharp edge and pack them afterwards.  If there's still a problem, I twist the cigarette between thumb and forefinger wherever it is tightest, pack it individually, and twist the end, then shake it from the twisted part, Cheech style.  You can then light the wick (can be awkward) or tear off the twisted part and light it normally.

Thusly nayjevin becomes the first person on the internet to nerd out on the finer details of stuffing a cigarette.

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## Atehequa

> I buy American Spirits organic tobacco and roll my own.  A pouch costs between $8 - $12 depending on where I buy it and lasts about two weeks.


Good stuff. I smoke American Spirits out of a pipe instead of pipe tobacco.

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## tod evans

> Good stuff. I smoke American Spirits out of a pipe instead of pipe tobacco.


As a pipe smoker I've gotta ask if you actually like it?

I don't care for it myself.....

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## evilfunnystuff

> I have a few tips on using the Powermatic. ..



I can attest to this machine too, I got mine about 6 months ago maybe, and it rocks.

I never really thought it was gonna be as nice as it is. I expected it to be junk, but it's 100 % worth the extra 20 bux versus the top-o-matic.

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## tangent4ronpaul

Grow the 'baccie...

https://www.horizonherbs.com/product.asp?specific=768

Tobacco, Smoking (Nicotiana tabacum), packet of 100 seeds, organic - $3.95



Tobacco (Nicotiana tabacum)
(Virginia Smoking Tobacco)
Family:  Nightshade (Solanacea)
Annual.  80 days to maturity.  Native to the New World.  This is a very mellow smoking tobacco that matures readily, even if the summer is cool or the growing season short. Flowers lavender to 5 feet. Highly recommended. Sow seed in the spring or early summer in flats or in a fine seed bed.  Press hard into surface (light dependent germinator) and keep warm and evenly moist until germination.  Germ in 10 to 14 days.  Transplant or thin seedlings to 1 to 2 foot spacing.  The plant likes full sun and moderate water and prefers to grow in a well-fertilized soil (chicken manure) and a side dressing of compost or more manure will really boost yield. 
100 seeds/pkt., certified organically grown

One of the attractions for smokers may be the cotinine content of tobacco, a molecule that seems to prevent memory loss and anxiety and may also prevent early onset of dementia/alzheimers.

On the curing of tobacco:  I used to visit Charles Perry's tobacco farm in Kentucky and he cured plenty of tobacco.  I ended up growing my own and adapting his wholesale methods to my home situation.  It worked a treat!  There are many different methods, but the easiest is to pick the leaves when they get a tinge of yellow on them, then hang them in an open shed or under the eaves.  You can string them on a piece of bailing wire or strong string.  Set it up so that the leaves dry out during the day and pick up moisture at night.  This is how they cure.  Once the leaves have lost all green and are a golden brown (which takes a month or two), you wait until they are flexible some cloudy day or evening or early morning and lay them out on your knee (while you're sitting down of course) alternating stem to tip for 7 leaves.  Then you tightly roll them together like a big Cigar and then gently twist the cigar, each end in an opposite direction, which gives you the typical "twisty" or "plug."  This you hang to dry in the warm shade with positive airflow. It will take a few days to dry completely.  Don't store the plug in plastic or glass until it is very dry or it will mold.   If you cut throught the plug with a sharp knife or a razor blade, shaving off a little at a time, you make the typical crinkly product known as tobacco, which can be smoked in a pipe or rolled (and has no chemicals). Mighty smooth.

-t

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## nayjevin

> I have a few tips on using the Powermatic.  Probably not much if anything an owner of the machine wouldn't figure out themselves, but might save someone some time.
> 
> I have it in a box that's a little more than double it's size with the tray attached.  If I find sticks in the tobacco I can just throw them aside into the box, and it never spills like a tray would.  When I'm not using the machine my box of tubes fits in the other half.  Keeps them from getting bent up or spilled, which is really frustrating as they're harder to put on the machine after they've been bent, and harder to grab when they're pickup sticks.  When a tube does get wrinkled, grabbing it between two fingers near the filter and smoothing out all the way to the top, then turning it, and doing it again, usually makes it loadable again.
> 
> When loading a tube, I hold it at an angle, but parallel to the table/floor, and grab one part of the tube onto the longest part of the metal loading insert.  Then I turn the tube so it is parallel with the chamber, and push it on - even if it is slightly wrinkled on the end, it almost always goes on with a twist (this surprises me, and is critical to being able to make a cigarette at home in the first place.)
> 
> The main way the machine gets jammed is when you press the tobacco down too hard - not when you press too many times.  I just use my fingers to load the tobacco.  I have it in my mind now what is the hardest I should press, and I press that hard as many times as it takes (with three fingers) to feel the desired resistance when it is full.  On the first push, I push down, then side to side to get a little bit of tobacco against the outside edges of the chamber.  This helps my 100's tubes get fully and properly filled.
> 
> The main tool I use is the wire spiral brush.  This is for jams.  About two jams per bag of tobacco, which is 2-3 cartons.  Turn off the machine, open the lever all the way, shove the spiral brush in the chamber from the outside where the filter tube goes, then use the tip of the same tool to slide across underneath the ridge on the front side of the chamber, where your fingers go when loading - and pull some of the tobacco up and out of the chamber onto the loading tray - or it might jam again.  If it has jammed from a stick, only pushing the brush in from the outside through the tube loading insert will often not clear the problem - no matter how many times you go back and forth. Turn on the machine, pull down the lever, and let it flush out the now loose tobacco.
> ...


Took me all this time to learn a new trick.  My cigarettes are consistent and no gap above the filter now.  The Powermatic hasn't jammed in months.  First I pack some tobacco in the channel with four fingers, then I press down in both corners with one finger at an angle a few times, then back over with four fingers.  Takes about 125% the time it used to, but cigarettes are perfect, almost like a machine made 'em. )

Did I recommend the Powermatic II enough?  It's the best purchase I've made in years.

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## DamianTV

I just pack mine by basically throwing the cigarette at the table which seems to knock the tobacco all the way down to the filter.  Makes a mess tho.

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