# Think Tank > History >  FINALLY, the Truth About The Native American Genocide

## LibertyEagle

Warning:  If you are politically-correct and don't care about facts, you probably won't want to watch this.




A plethora of sources:  https://board.freedomainradio.com/to...ican-genocide/

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## juleswin

Lemme guess, it was the Irish who suffered took the brunt of the attacks, right?

Also had this been a topic about attacks European people, the cover art would have been a young, weakly woman covering her child from attack from crazy looking others.

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## bunklocoempire

I currently spank Indians and Ha'oles alike, so I'm not going to watch until I get that all under control.

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## cajuncocoa

//

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## William Tell

> Non-Americans always lie


Molyneux is Canadian.

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## cajuncocoa

//

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## juleswin

Anyone actually listen to this presentation? I seriously would like to know how he address the small pox blanket incident. Did he say the blankets were taken from the Irish who then suffered during the winters resulting in more Irish deaths than the Native Americans? or did he just brush it off/ignore it.

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## Ender

> Warning:  If you are politically-correct and don't care about facts, you probably won't want to watch this.


You are the one that's PC- anything to cover your immigrant bias. Of course, the white man was the illegal here so you should be fine. And we all know what a reliable source Molyneux is. 




> *Atrocities Against Native Americans*
> 
> Numerous atrocities against Native Americans span the hundreds of years from the first arrival of European explorers to the modern era under a wide range of circumstances. Today there are over 500 Native American tribes in the United States, each with a distinct culture, way of life and history. Even today, Native Americans face large challenges to cope with the disadvantages history has left them and ongoing cases of discrimination.
> 
>     10 million+ Estimated number of Native Americans living in land that is now the United States when European explorers first arrived in the 15th century
>     Less than 300,000 Estimated number of Native Americans living in the United States around 1900
>     5.2 million identified as American Indian or Alaska Native in the 2010 census
> 
> Massacre-of-Indian-women-and-children-in-Idaho-Frank-Leslie-illustrated
> ...

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## dannno

Lol... just like I thought, 10 people respond who don't even watch the video or listen to the facts, they just come up with a bunch of irrellevent mumbo jumbo to post and we don't even end up  discussing the points of the video.

Just like other Stef threads I've started, few people are actually willing to listen to the evidence, they just attack Stef and assume he is wrong. Really lame. This was actually a great video. 

The argument is that there is more Native American DNA around today than when the explorers came here - we have helped expand their DNA footprint, so to say it is genocide is not accurate. 

Also what happened was the diseases the Europeans brought that killed off the Natives killed most of them before the explorers started moving west. The diseases moved west before the explorers.  When they did move out west, the Native populations were ALREADY decimated by the diseases and the land was mostly empty. The blankets were mentioned, there is no proof it was a widespread conspiracy or that it even really happened in a widespread way, or that it was done on purpose in a widespread manner. There were some atrocities committed against the Native Americans, he does bring those up and doesn't defend them.

He also talks about some of the atrocities committed by Native Americans - some of the tribes were fairly peaceful, others were absolutely not! There is much more in the video, I highly recommend listening if you have an open mind and want to learn.

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## dannno

Oh ya, the other thing about smallpox blankets - do we really know whether the blankets could have been contaminated? How long does smallpox survive on a blanket? Does anybody have scientific data? Most viruses and such die if they aren't able to find a host, how long can smallpox survive inside of a blanket?

The source of the diseases were Europeans, but they spread through the Native communities being spread by other Natives, the Europeans didn't go around infecting all of the Natives, nor did they understand the biology behind how diseases function. 

It's been a couple weeks since I've watched the video, maybe somebody who watched it more recently could help me out here with what he was saying about this topic.

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## jllundqu

> You are the one that's PC- anything to cover your immigrant bias. Of course, the white man was the illegal here so you should be fine. And we all know what a reliable source Molyneux is.


Nonsense!  Nomadic people couldn't have crossed this so-called 'land bridge' 12,000 years ago because the Earth is only 6000 years old!  /sarc

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## Ender

> Oh ya, the other thing about smallpox blankets - *do we really know whether the blankets could have been contaminated?* How long does smallpox survive on a blanket? Does anybody have scientific data? Most viruses and such die if they aren't able to find a host, how long can smallpox survive inside of a blanket?
> 
> The source of the diseases were Europeans, but they spread through the Native communities being spread by other Natives, the Europeans didn't go around infecting all of the Natives, nor did they understand the biology behind how diseases function. 
> 
> It's been a couple weeks since I've watched the video, maybe somebody who watched it more recently could help me out here with what he was saying about this topic.


Yes.




> "Out of our regard to them," wrote William Trent, "we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect."4 He does not mention who conceived the plan, and he likewise does not mention who carried it out, but Fort Pitt account books make it clear that the British military both sanctioned and paid for the deed. The records for June 1763 include this invoice submitted by Levy, Trent and Company: 4 
> 
> To Sundries got to Replace in kind those which were taken from people in the Hospital to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians Vizt: 
> 2 Blankets @ 20/ £299 099 0 
> 1 Silk Handkerchef 10/ 
> & 1 linnen do: 3/6 099 1399 6 
> 
> Captain Ecuyer certified that the items "were had for the uses above mentioned," and Gen. Thomas Gage ultimately approved the invoice for payment, endorsing it with a comment and his signature.5 
> 
> http://www.politicsandthelifesciences.or...


Smallpox just needs to quickly infect one host, then it can spread quickly to other hosts.

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## Ender

> Lol... just like I thought, 10 people respond who don't even watch the video or listen to the facts, they just come up with a bunch of irrellevent mumbo jumbo to post and we don't even end up  discussing the points of the video.
> 
> Just like other Stef threads I've started, few people are actually willing to listen to the evidence, they just attack Stef and assume he is wrong. Really lame. This was actually a great video. 
> 
> The argument is that there is more Native American DNA around today than when the explorers came here - we have helped expand their DNA footprint, so to say it is genocide is not accurate. 
> 
> Also what happened was the diseases the Europeans brought that killed off the Natives killed most of them before the explorers started moving west. The diseases moved west before the explorers.  When they did move out west, the Native populations were ALREADY decimated by the diseases and the land was mostly empty. The blankets were mentioned, there is no proof it was a widespread conspiracy or that it even really happened in a widespread way, or that it was done on purpose in a widespread manner. There were some atrocities committed against the Native Americans, he does bring those up and doesn't defend them.
> 
> He also talks about some of the atrocities committed by Native Americans - some of the tribes were fairly peaceful, others were absolutely not! There is much more in the video, I highly recommend listening if you have an open mind and want to learn.


The Indian DNA is a nonsense argument. 

It's like saying the French are still around even if their country was completely taken over by South Africa, their lands taken and their culture almost erased, their bloodline mixed with blacks and indistinguishable from the rest of South Africans. But, hey! The French are still with us because there's some DNA being forwarded through mildly mixed birthrates.

Also- I have a friend who is Tongva Indian- his DNA turned out to be 99% Ainu. He was completely blown away.

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## dannno

> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Smallpox just needs to quickly infect one host, then it can spread quickly to other hosts.


Wow, two whole blankets wiped out a civilization?

And where exactly in your post does it say that those who received the blankets were infected by them? How long does a smallpox virus last in a blanket?

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## dannno

> The Indian DNA is a nonsense argument. 
> 
> It's like saying the French are still around even if their country was completely taken over by South Africa, their lands taken and their culture almost erased, their bloodline mixed with blacks and indistinguishable from the rest of South Africans. But, hey! The French are still with us because there's some DNA being forwarded through mildly mixed birthrates.
> 
> Also- I have a friend who is Tongva Indian- his DNA turned out to be 99% Ainu. He was completely blown away.


You should watch the video for more details, he spends probably about 10 minutes on this subject. 

Taken as a whole, the video completely debunks what the modern story is of what Europeans did to the Native Americans. Neither side was perfect, but how it is portrayed these days is not accurate, Molyneux I believe has a much more accurate portrayal of how it went down.

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## Ender

> You should watch the video for more details, he spends probably about 10 minutes on this subject. 
> 
> Taken as a whole, the video completely debunks what the modern story is of what Europeans did to the Native Americans. Neither side was perfect, but how it is portrayed these days is not accurate, Molyneux I believe has a much more accurate portrayal of how it went down.


Absolutely it is not perfect- for instance the savage scalpers were the Brits.

http://spartacus-educational.com/WWscalping.htm

http://www.manataka.org/page1438.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/scalping.aspx

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ob...alpers&f=false

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## Jamesiv1

The history books are written by the victors - always.

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## Jamesiv1

> Just like other Stef threads I've started, few people are actually willing to listen to the evidence, they just attack Stef and assume he is wrong. Really lame. This was actually a great video.


I simply can't watch him but for about 4 minutes then I begin to lose the will to live.

Plus, his mouth does that weird thing every time he says a word with an 'R' in it - so distracting.  I'm constantly like, "wut the $#@! is wrong with your mouth??" lol

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## dannno

> Absolutely it is not perfect- for instance the savage scalpers were the Brits.
> 
> http://spartacus-educational.com/WWscalping.htm
> 
> http://www.manataka.org/page1438.html
> 
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/scalping.aspx
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=Ob...alpers&f=false


Ugh.. the first two of those links start off by saying that most people think that all or most Native Americans were scalpers. That's not true, like I said before, some of the tribes were very brutal and others were fairly peaceful. I don't know what percentage there was of each, it appears that by the time Europeans began going out west most of the tribes were gone so how would anybody know?

It appears that the French and the Brits did pay for scalps and encourage it, but they also saw Natives scalping each other before this ever occurred. But scalping also occurred in Europe apparently long before that. 

Either way, I don't know that scalping was even mentioned in the video in the OP. If you want to do yourself a favor, why don't you actually watch the video and maybe you will learn a few things and then you can respond to the arguments in there instead of straw-manning arguments that weren't even discussed.

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## dannno

> I simply can't watch him but for about 4 minutes then I begin to lose the will to live.
> 
> Plus, his mouth does that weird thing every time he says a word with an 'R' in it - so distracting.  I'm constantly like, "wut the $#@! is wrong with your mouth??" lol


Is it an IQ thing? Why can't you listen to somebody else who is really smart talk?

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## Jamesiv1

> Is it an IQ thing? Why can't you listen to somebody else who is really smart talk?


I can't explain it.... I just find him annoying.  Not because I disagree with him - just his demeanor.

maybe its just that annoying mouth thing lol

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## dannno

> I can't explain it.... I just find him annoying.  Not because I disagree with him - just his demeanor.
> 
> maybe its just that annoying mouth thing lol


Not only are there mp3 and sound streams, you can also change the tab on your browser while listening. Some of his best presentations include charts and notes which are helpful to read along, but he also tries to explain them for people who are just listening.

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## phill4paul

Does the truth mention the lust for gold? Like the lust that initiated the Indian Removal Act of 1830? How about the western treaties that were broken and the Native Americans that were forcibly relocated because of it. I'll take some time later this weekend and watch his video. I'll have to take him in small doses. The truth remains that there were many nations that traded all across what is considered North America. And now there is not. I don't think it was an Ice Age that wiped them out and put us here.

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## dannno

> The truth remains that there were many nations that traded all across what is considered North America. And now there is not. I don't think it was an Ice Age that wiped them out and put us here.


It was disease that wiped them out, which out-paced western expansion. By the time the explorers got out there, it was almost empty and the Natives had been struggling to overcome the disease for about 100-200 years already.

There may have been some bad actions related to blankets, there is evidence that like 3 or 4 blankets were given to natives that may or may not have carried the infection and may or may not have infected Native Americans - but the natives were having problems with these diseases before that ever happened, once it was introduced it spread from tribe to tribe. Blankets were not necessary and there is no evidence this occurred on a widespread scale. 

I still recommend watching the video, there are a lot of aspects to this whole thing that are discussed.

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## Jamesiv1

> Does the truth mention the lust for gold? Like the lust that initiated the Indian Removal Act of 1830? How about the western treaties that were broken and the Native Americans that were forcibly relocated because of it. I'll take some time later this weekend and watch his video. I'll have to take him in small doses. The truth remains that there were many nations that traded all across what is considered North America. And now there is not. I don't think it was an Ice Age that wiped them out and put us here.


Gold was a big player in Mexico and South America, too.  The Mayans and Aztecs had a bunch... until the Conquistadors came knocking.

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## dannno

> Gold was a big player in Mexico and South America, too.  The Mayans and Aztecs had a bunch... until the Conquistadors came knocking.


Ya, it would be awesome if there were more civilizations around who liked to sacrifice humans. 

At least the leaders countries these days keep that kind of stuff under wraps *cough*Bohemian Grove*cough* *cough*Skull and Bones*cough*

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## Danke

> Gold was a big player in Mexico and South America, too.  The Mayans and Aztecs had a bunch... until the Conquistadors came knocking.


There is a danger within we need to keep an eye on:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6255686

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## Ender

> Ya, it would be awesome if there were more civilizations around who liked to sacrifice humans. 
> 
> At least the leaders countries these days keep that kind of stuff under wraps *cough*Bohemian Grove*cough* *cough*Skull and Bones*cough*


We definitely need the strong morals of the Brits of that period.




> Humprey Gilbert- Half brother to Sir Walter Raleigh>
> Gilbert's actions in the south of Ireland played a significant part in the outbreak of the first of the Desmond Rebellions. 
> 
> Gilbert was eager to participate and, after Carew's seizure of the barony of Idrone (in modern County Carlow), he pushed westward with his forces across the River Blackwater in the summer of 1569 and joined up with his kinsman to defeat Sir Edmund Butler, a younger brother of the Earl's. After that initial success, he marched unopposed through Kerry and Connello, taking 30 to 40 castles.
> 
> During the three weeks of this campaign, all Irish were treated without quarter and put to the sword, including women and children. A gruesome spectacle was devised by Gilbert to cow the rebel supporters:
> 
> [*I]    The heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies and brought to the place where he incamped at night, and should there bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie ledying into his owne tente so that none could come into his tente for any cause but commonly he muste passe through a lane of heddes which he used ad terrorem...[It brought] greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kindsfolke, and freinds..[/I].[6][7][8] 
> *
> ...

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## phill4paul

> It was disease that wiped them out, which out-paced western expansion. By the time the explorers got out there, it was almost empty and the Natives had been struggling to overcome the disease for about 100-200 years already.
> 
> There may have been some bad actions related to blankets, there is evidence that like 3 or 4 blankets were given to natives that may or may not have carried the infection and may or may not have infected Native Americans - but the natives were having problems with these diseases before that ever happened, once it was introduced it spread from tribe to tribe. Blankets were not necessary and there is no evidence this occurred on a widespread scale. 
> 
> I still recommend watching the video, there are a lot of aspects to this whole thing that are discussed.


  Almost empty? You're full of $#@!. If it was almost empty then why was there a need to wage a war of Western expansion? True, disease had decimated a great majority, started by the Spanish and spread through trading, but this was well before the first Puritans graced the East shore.  You try to make it sound like there were only a few people hanging on. Crow, Blackfeet, Mandan, Nez Perce, Hidatsa, Shawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Comanche, Arakara, Pawnee, Sioux, Omaha, Acoma, Hopi...do I need to go on? Sure, a few blankets were a part of it. A very small part of it. And as you say once it was introduced it spread. Why do you think it spread? It is because there was a vast trading network by many number of peoples. It doesn't even take blankets. It takes nothing more than trading. Which the Europeans and the Native Americans did on major scale. I'll watch his vid. If what he says is anything like what you are purporting then I'm going to destroy him.

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## Ender

> Almost empty? You're full of $#@!. If it was almost empty then why was there a need to wage a war of Western expansion? True, disease had decimated a great majority, started by the Spanish and spread through trading, but this was well before the first Puritans graced the East shore.  You try to make it sound like there were only a few people hanging on. Crow, Blackfeet, Mandan, Nez Perce, Hidatsa, Shawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Comanche, Arakara, Pawnee, Sioux, Omaha, Acoma, Hopi...do I need to go on? Sure, a few blankets were a part of it. A very small part of it. And as you say once it was introduced it spread. Why do you think it spread? It is because there was a vast trading network by many number of peoples. It doesn't even take blankets. It takes nothing more than trading. Which the Europeans and the Native Americans did on major scale. I'll watch his vid. If what he says is anything like what you are purporting then I'm going to destroy him.


Can't wait to read your POV.

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## dannno

> Almost empty? You're full of $#@!. If it was almost empty then why was there a need to wage a war of Western expansion? True, disease had decimated a great majority, started by the Spanish and spread through trading, but this was well before the first Puritans graced the East shore.  You try to make it sound like there were only a few people hanging on. Crow, Blackfeet, Mandan, Nez Perce, Hidatsa, Shawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Comanche, Arakara, Pawnee, Sioux, Omaha, Acoma, Hopi...do I need to go on? Sure, a few blankets were a part of it. A very small part of it. And as you say once it was introduced it spread. Why do you think it spread? It is because there was a vast trading network by many number of peoples. It doesn't even take blankets. It takes nothing more than trading. Which the Europeans and the Native Americans did on major scale. I'll watch his vid. If what he says is anything like what you are purporting then I'm going to destroy him.


Good - you admit the majority were already wiped out, that is a great start. Once you look at all the numbers I think you will see where we are coming from.

Stef uses commonly cited estimates all along the way, I think you will find he is pretty fair - he will lay out a set of estimates and will usually use the conservative estimates that make his argument the least defensible, rather than using the number that makes his argument easier to prove, and still does a pretty good job pulling it all together.

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## Ender

*Removing Native Americans from their Land*

President Andrew Jackson offered similar rhetoric in his first inaugural address in 1829, when he emphasized his desire to observe toward the Indian tribes within our limits a just and liberal policy, and to give that humane and considerate attention to their rights and their wants which is consistent with the habits of our Government and the feelings of our people. Yet, only fourteen months later, Jackson prompted Congress to pass the Removal Act, a bill that forced Native Americans to leave the United States and settle in the Indian Territory west of the Mississippi River.

Many Cherokee tribes banded together as an independent nation, and challenged this legislation in U.S. courts. In 1832, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokees, but some tribes still signed treaties giving the federal government the legal authority to "assist" them in their move to the Indian Territory.

In 1838, as the deadline for removal approached, thousands of federal soldiers and Georgia volunteers entered the territory and forcibly relocated the Cherokees. Americans hunted, imprisoned, raped, and murdered Native Americans. Cherokees surviving the onslaught were forced on a 1,000-mile march to the established Indian Territory with few provisions. Approximately 4,000 Cherokees died on this Trail of Tears. 

https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classro...american2.html

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## phill4paul

> Good - you admit the majority were already wiped out, that is a great start. Once you look at all the numbers I think you will see where we are coming from.
> 
> Stef uses commonly cited estimates all along the way, I think you will find he is pretty fair - he will lay out a set of estimates and will usually use the conservative estimates that make his argument the least defensible, rather than using the number that makes his argument easier to prove, and still does a pretty good job pulling it all together.


   I'll check it out. Just not tonight.

  And, yeah, a majority were wiped out. Europeans experienced this during the "Black Death." But, we all know exposure can bring on immunity. The first scourge ran with impunity. From trading center to trading center. The first die off, those that live immunize genetically against it. Then it hits again after mutations on the Olde Continent that don't occur on the New Continent. Common cited estimates mean what one chooses to put forward. Meh, I have $#@! planned over the next coupla week and will get back as I can. I'll probably take him in 20 min. increments and give my thoughts.

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## dannno

> I'll probably take him in 20 min. increments and give my thoughts.


This isn't one of his 1 hour 52 minute podcasts, this one is only 36 minutes.

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## phill4paul

> This isn't one of his 1 hour 52 minute podcasts, this one is only 36 minutes.


   K. I'll get back to you. Later next week. To many other things to detract when I can't devote the time. Bump this next Thurs. if you will. If not I'll try to remember.

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## KrokHead

This Genocide is obviously a tragedy, and is a part of America's blood-stained history and violent culture, but I don't get why a majority of countries in the world get the pass on doing the same thing at some point in history.

War is bad, people die.  When countries get conquered this is what happens.

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