# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Question: Seeds

## romacox

we use to plant tomatoes, and they produced tomatoes all summer long.  Now they produce one crop and die.  I am suspecting they have the "terminator gene". 

Does anyone know where we can buy plants and seeds for the garden that do not have the terminator gene?

----------


## osan

> we use to plant tomatoes, and they produced tomatoes all summer long.  Now they produce one crop and die.  I am suspecting they have the "terminator gene". 
> 
> Does anyone know where we can buy plants and seeds for the garden that do not have the terminator gene?


DO a search for organic seeds - search for "heirloom" tomatoes as well.

Also, check any local markets.  For example, there was a hardware store close to us in Beaver WV (Beaver Hardware) and they sell all manner of seed, all "organic" AFAIK, and none of this Monsanto bull$#@!.

Also, Burpee has an "organic" line - about 50% or more higher in cost, but may be worth it.

----------


## oyarde

Beker Creek Heirloom Seeds , they have a website and will mail you a catalog . Great stuff .

----------


## pacelli

also look into:

http://seedsavers.org/ 

You can buy seed packets from them, they ship quickly, and I've experienced a higher germination rate than the same seeds bought from Baker Creek.  Also had one "mix up" order where cucumber seeds were labeled as a particular variety that I ordered, then when the plants grew I found they were actually an asian melon variety.  That's never happened with seedsavers, but after investing so much time, effort, and energy into those cucumber plants, I decided to write off Baker Creek. They've got a beautiful catalog, I wish they'd take the same level of precision with their seed operation.

If you are looking for rare tree or shrub seeds, check seedrack.com .  I've used them and they are prompt.  Great germination rate on the Baobob tree.

For herbs I use Richters in Canada.  You can order some medicinal herb seeds that can't be found in the usual catalogs.

Some other general keywords you want to seek out when shopping for seeds are "heirloom" and/or "open-pollinated".  Neither of those will have a terminator gene.

When growing from heirloom or open-pollinated seed varieties, it is true that you can save seeds from year to year and never purchase another seed packet for the rest of your life, but you will need to collect seeds from a minimum of 12 plants of the same vegetable variety.

----------


## PatriotOne

http://www.survivalistseeds.com/

----------


## dannno

WAAAIIIIT a minute...

What type of tomatoes are you planting?

Are they a determinate or indeterminate variety?

If they had the terminator gene, then the seeds they produce would not sprout, they wouldn't just suddenly die..

----------


## MelissaWV

> WAAAIIIIT a minute...
> 
> What type of tomatoes are you planting?
> 
> Are they a determinate or indeterminate variety?
> 
> If they had the terminator gene, then the seeds they produce would not sprout, they wouldn't just suddenly die..


I was struck by this as well.

You might look into other factors, such as soil or water or feed or anything else that's going "into" the tomatoes.  Even something as seemingly unimportant as a change in sun (did a tree grow more shade?  was one cut down, providing less?) can affect plants of any sort.

----------


## dannno

Variety dependent:




> The most simple explanation of the difference between determinate and indeterminate tomatoes is that *determinate tomatoes bear their crop all at once, while indeterminate tomatoes  bear fruit over the course of a season.* Indeterminate varieties tend to grow longer vines and will require more support in terms of staking or caging over the course of a season. Determinate varieties often (but not always) tend to be more compact and manageable.



http://organicgardening.about.com/od...atotypefaq.htm

----------


## oyarde

> Variety dependent:
> 
> 
> 
> http://organicgardening.about.com/od...atotypefaq.htm


Determinate is what Red Gold harvests to make tomato sauce .

----------


## romacox

I have been quite busy, and just got a chance to get back here.  Thanks so much for the leads.

----------


## romacox

> WAAAIIIIT a minute...
> 
> What type of tomatoes are you planting?
> 
> Are they a determinate or indeterminate variety?
> 
> If they had the terminator gene, then the seeds they produce would not sprout, they wouldn't just suddenly die..


This will explain:  http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/mons...rminator.shtml

----------


## dannno

> This will explain:  http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/mons...rminator.shtml


No, I'm aware of the terminator gene and how it works, I think you're confused because you said that it would make the tomatoes stop growing when in fact it makes their seeds sterile.

What you're describing is a determinate variety of tomatoes rather than the indeterminate varieties you are used to... either that or as Melissa said perhaps the conditions of the soil pH, nutrients or the sun or temperature or something changed and they just died..

----------


## osan

> I was struck by this as well.
> 
> You might look into other factors, such as soil or water or feed or anything else that's going "into" the tomatoes.  Even something as seemingly unimportant as a change in sun (did a tree grow more shade?  was one cut down, providing less?) can affect plants of any sort.


One other thing: tomatoes do NOT like too much water.  If they are wet all the time they will not produce.

----------


## romacox

> No, I'm aware of the terminator gene and how it works, I think you're confused because you said that it would make the tomatoes stop growing when in fact it makes their seeds sterile.
> 
> What you're describing is a determinate variety of tomatoes rather than the indeterminate varieties you are used to... either that or as Melissa said perhaps the conditions of the soil pH, nutrients or the sun or temperature or something changed and they just died..


OH...great information from everyone.  Thanks so much. 

 We grew many large and very successful gardens, but it has been a few years. We now have nematodes in our soil, and that is hard on tomatoes.  But,  that leaves knots on the  roots, and these plants (that died after one crop0 did not have that.  The tomatoes we planted were beefsteak tomatoes which is what we use to grow. Could they still be determinate tomatoes?

----------


## MelissaWV

> One other thing: tomatoes do NOT like too much water.  If they are wet all the time they will not produce.


Yeah, but that would (likely) be something that the OP is controlling quite carefully.  My point about the sun is that I had a neighbor who had a lovely veggie patch for awhile, then couldn't figure out why it wasn't working anymore after a decade of flourishing.  It turned out that she just had lost track of how tall an oak had grown, and that it was shading her veggie plants about twice as much as it used to.

----------


## dannno

> OH...great information from everyone.  Thanks so much. 
> 
>  We grew many large and very successful gardens, but it has been a few years. We now have nematodes in our soil, and that is hard on tomatoes.  But,  that leaves knots on the  roots, and these plants (that died after one crop0 did not have that.  The tomatoes we planted were beefsteak tomatoes which is what we use to grow. Could they still be determinate tomatoes?


Beefsteak is indeterminate, so you should be able to get a full season out of them.. 

Try seamagic seaweed extract or some other seaweed product and fertilize with some fish emulsion to help with the nematodes.. compost and maybe a little manure helps as well. You can also rotate in marigolds or various other plants that are resistant to them. 

There are beneficial nematodes that eat other predators, but I don't know if they kill predatory nematodes..

----------


## romacox

> Beefsteak is indeterminate, so you should be able to get a full season out of them.. 
> 
> Try seamagic seaweed extract or some other seaweed product and fertilize with some fish emulsion to help with the nematodes.. compost and maybe a little manure helps as well. You can also rotate in marigolds or various other plants that are resistant to them. 
> 
> There are beneficial nematodes that eat other predators, but I don't know if they kill predatory nematodes..


Thanks Danno.  You are awesome

----------

