# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  I started the Atkins Diet today

## ShaneEnochs

So today I started the Atkins Diet.  I got on the scale and realized just how badly I really needed to lose weight.  I stand at 5'7 and weigh 297.  I'm getting married in one month, so by then I hope to weigh about 275.  I've been on this diet before, so I know I can drop weight pretty fast in the beginning.  Anyway, this thread will be like a little journal to let you all know how I'm doing with it.



*Day 1: 297 lbs*

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## muzzled dogg

I woulda went paleo / primal.  It's how your body evolved / was created to eat

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## ShaneEnochs

> I woulda went paleo / primal.  It's how your body evolved / was created to eat


I have been following that thread for a while.  The only reason I went with Atkins is because I've done it before and I know what to look for if my body has a bad reaction to it.  After my wedding, I may switch to paleo.

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## Kluge

To kick off weight loss and break carb addiction, Atkins induction phase is a good way to eventually get into paleo/primal. Worked out fine for me.

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## schiffheadbaby

Kluge how is your fitness?

I've been juicing, but only drink 1 or 2 veggie drinks a day for lunch/breakfast replacement

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## Kluge

> Kluge how is your fitness?
> 
> I've been juicing, but only drink 1 or 2 veggie drinks a day for lunch/breakfast replacement


Mine could be better. I need to do strength training pretty badly, but every time I try to do anything, I have a giggling baby climbing on me--I lift her a lot, but it's just not the same. Doing most of the weight loss first, then starting to work out was my plan though...so things are going according to plan.

I don't like the idea of juicing because of all the fiber that's removed, but I do like the idea of getting bigger amounts of certain nutrients. Plus, I don't have a juicer, nor do I have the space. How's the juicing working out for you? What do you have for dinner?

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## schiffheadbaby

I have only juiced intermittently for a few months.  I think it works well, but I do wonder how many nutrients are lost in the blending process.

Once your palate becomes accustomed to the taste it isn't bad, very filling and easy to lose weight.

I don't have any real dinner plans, generally fish/steak/pizza etc which I'm sure is not so helpful.

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## Bruehound

Good plan and when you're ready the transition to paleo will be smooth.

It's the best way you as an individual can strike a blow to the two biggest sectors of corporatism in our economy. Factory food begets factory healthcare. Besides we all need to be fit and healthy to break out of our FEMA camps!

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## PatriotOne

> So today I started the Atkins Diet.  I got on the scale and realized just how badly I really needed to lose weight.  I stand at 5'7 and weigh 297.  I'm getting married in one month, so by then I hope to weigh about 275.  I've been on this diet before, so I know I can drop weight pretty fast in the beginning.  Anyway, this thread will be like a little journal to let you all know how I'm doing with it.
> 
> *Day 1: 297 lbs*


Awesome!  I get so exited when someone else goes Atkins/Paleo .

I have had great success with Atkins before also.  I decided to go Atkins just because after looking over Paleo I thought it would be best to do Atkins first as it drops weight faster IMO and gets you off that carb cravings roller coaster faster.  I'm still doing Atkins (induction for 8 weeks now) and can tell you I am having really good results.  I don't have a scale and haven't weighed myself but I don't need to.  I have dropped a full size (and maybe a size and a half) and feel really good.  When I get closer to my goal I will go Paleo but for now, I'm kicking ass!  And the best thing is I could not care less about not eating carbs.  Cravings are totally gone (after a week and 1/2).  2 meals a day, full, and not thinking about food until legitimately hungry.

Did you see the new interview I posted in the Paleo thread?  It was really good and informative.

I'll look forward to your journaling in this thread.  Be strong and kick those carb cravings ass!

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## PatriotOne

> The only reason I went with Atkins is because I've done it before and I know what to look for if my body has a bad reaction to it.


Not sure what "bad reaction" you are talking about but just remember it is almost 100% certain you will get carb flu.  Usually anywhere between 1 - 3 weeks.  Symptoms are tired and your thoughts are constantly occupied by pieces of bread doing the can-can in your head .  This is normal.  It weill pass unless you keep feeding the addiction.  Luckily it's not near as tough as say quitting smoking or alchohol or drugs.

My carb cravings last a week and 1/2.  I slayed the beast using a heaping tablespoon of peanut butter when they got really persistent (usually at night when watching some TV).  For whatever reason that usually stopped the cravings to a managable level.

Did you get the Atkins book?  Gotta have the book!

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## Original_Intent

I ahve done Atkins before with good success also, went from 280 down to about 220 once, then went to almost 300 (about the same weight and height as the OP) and sitting around 280 at the moment.

My problem with Atkins is when I eventually start reintroducing carbs, even if they are "good" carbs...my body goes nuts, I go into huge carb addiction (much worse than the hell that is called induction phase) and within a couple of weeks I am scarfing pizza and washing them down with Root Beer Floats.

*Best of luck to you.* I really need to do Atkins again, and I need to develop some kind of lifetime plan to stop the roller coaster once and for all. I need to look into paleo, I have heard a lot of good about it.

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## ShowMeLiberty

> So today I started the Atkins Diet.  I got on the scale and realized just how badly I really needed to lose weight.  I stand at 5'7 and weigh 297.  I'm getting married in one month, so by then I hope to weigh about 275.  I've been on this diet before, so I know I can drop weight pretty fast in the beginning.  Anyway, this thread will be like a little journal to let you all know how I'm doing with it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Day 1: 297 lbs*


Good for you! Hopefully this journal thread will keep you motivated. 




> Good plan and when you're ready the transition to paleo will be smooth.
> 
> It's the best way you as an individual can strike a blow to the two biggest sectors of corporatism in our economy. Factory food begets factory healthcare. Besides we all need to be fit and healthy to break out of our FEMA camps!


Ha ha! When I decided to go primal two months ago, one reason was because I saw my overweight & out of shape state as a serious gap in my SHTF prepping.

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## PatriotOne

> I ahve done Atkins before with good success also, went from 280 down to about 220 once, then went to almost 300 (about the same weight and height as the OP) and sitting around 280 at the moment.
> 
> My problem with Atkins is when I eventually start reintroducing carbs, even if they are "good" carbs...my body goes nuts, I go into huge carb addiction (much worse than the hell that is called induction phase) and within a couple of weeks I am scarfing pizza and washing them down with Root Beer Floats.
> 
> *Best of luck to you.* I really need to do Atkins again, and I need to develop some kind of lifetime plan to stop the roller coaster once and for all. I need to look into paleo, I have heard a lot of good about it.


Do it!  Do it!  All the non-trusting of Government propaganda liberty minded people are doing it .  

Here was a good interview from someone other than Mark Sisson...not that he doesn't do good interviews...just nice to hear other experts speak about it also.

*Interview with Nora Gedgaudas - Hour 1 - The Paleo Diet, Primal Body & Primal Mind*

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...RIR-120610.php

June 10, 2012

Nora Gedgaudas is one of the world's leading experts on Paleolithic (Paleo) nutrition and author of the international bestselling book "Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond The Paleo Diet For Total Health and a Longer Life." She is Board-certified in Holistic Nutrition through the National Association of Nutritional Professionals and is a Certified Nutritional Therapist. Nora served as a trainer for the State of Washington Institute of Mental Health, illuminating nutrition's impact on mental health for State health care workers at all levels. She maintains a private practice in Portland, Oregon as both a Certified Nutritional Therapist and a Board-certified Clinical Neurofeedback Specialist. In August 2011, Nora was a featured presenter at the Ancestral Health Symposium at UCLA-billed as "the Woodstock of evolutionary medicine." We'll discuss the pre-agriculture diet and lifestyle. Also, we cover the negative impacts of agriculture upon our environment and the ill effects of grain in our bodies. Nora provides specific information on why the paleo diet is the best for the human body.

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## Bruno

Congratulations on your first step, commiting to a change in your diet.  Regardless of how which diet you end up on, I would encourage you to also incorporate excercise such as walking or eliptical for cardio, and hitting the weights (under doctor's approval, if you think you should).  


All the best wishes for your health and your upcoming wedding!

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## PatriotOne

> Ha ha! When I decided to go primal two months ago, one reason was because I saw my overweight & out of shape state as a serious gap in my SHTF prepping.


LMAO!  Me too.  I want to be in good shape for when SHTF .  There's other reasons for my health in general but I swear to God it was the SHTF scenario that was the motivator that put it into action .

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## ShowMeLiberty

> I ahve done Atkins before with good success also, went from 280 down to about 220 once, then went to almost 300 (about the same weight and height as the OP) and sitting around 280 at the moment.
> 
> My problem with Atkins is when I eventually start reintroducing carbs, even if they are "good" carbs...my body goes nuts, I go into huge carb addiction (much worse than the hell that is called induction phase) and within a couple of weeks I am scarfing pizza and washing them down with Root Beer Floats.
> 
> *Best of luck to you.* I really need to do Atkins again, and I need to develop some kind of lifetime plan to stop the roller coaster once and for all. I need to look into paleo, I have heard a lot of good about it.


Start here --> http://www.marksdailyapple.com

The Primal Blueprint has done wonders for me. I haven't felt so good in decades and the weight is just vanishing with almost no effort at all just by keeping my carbs under 100 grams per day.

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## ShaneEnochs

> Not sure what "bad reaction" you are talking about but just remember it is almost 100% certain you will get carb flu.  Usually anywhere between 1 - 3 weeks.  Symptoms are tired and your thoughts are constantly occupied by pieces of bread doing the can-can in your head .  This is normal.  It weill pass unless you keep feeding the addiction.  Luckily it's not near as tough as say quitting smoking or alchohol or drugs.
> 
> My carb cravings last a week and 1/2.  I slayed the beast using a heaping tablespoon of peanut butter when they got really persistent (usually at night when watching some TV).  For whatever reason that usually stopped the cravings to a managable level.
> 
> Did you get the Atkins book?  Gotta have the book!


I had severe heart palpitations to the point where I thought I was having a heart attack.  That was four years ago.  After I started eating carbs again, they've mostly stopped, but I still have one or two every couple of days.

And yep, I have the book as well.

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## ShowMeLiberty

> LMAO!  Me too.  I want to be in good shape for when SHTF .  There's other reasons for my health in general but I swear to God it was the SHTF scenario that was the motivator that put it into action .


 I know, right? If we ever have to run for our lives it would be good to be able to run more than a couple of feet....

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## ShaneEnochs

> Congratulations on your first step, commiting to a change in your diet.  Regardless of how which diet you end up on, I would encourage you to also incorporate excercise such as walking or eliptical for cardio, and hitting the weights (under doctor's approval, if you think you should).  
> 
> 
> All the best wishes for your health and your upcoming wedding!


Once I drop a few pounds I will.  I've noticed that even walking has become difficult with all of this weight.  I've really gained over the past few weeks because I haven't had a job, and the only thing I have to occupy my time is food.  But I think this thread and you guys will help keep me accountable.

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## PatriotOne

> I had severe heart palpitations to the point where I thought I was having a heart attack.  That was four years ago.  After I started eating carbs again, they've mostly stopped, but I still have one or two every couple of days.
> 
> And yep, I have the book as well.


Totally opposite for me.  When I was eating too many carbs, I started having palpitations and it scared me.  I haven't had them once since I took carbs off the menu.

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## Beorn

I'm glad you're returning to something that works for you. Putting your body into ketosis is a great way to curve cravings. However, if you're interested in learning more about ketosis I would recommend checking out Lyle McDonald's website, forums and books. Lyle actually wrote the be all end all book on the science behind the ketogenic diet even though he's not actually a proponant of atkins. I think Atkins diet fans can at times needlessly obsess over a few grams of carbs while ignoring calories burned and taken in. Different diets have different advantages, but it always comes down to calorie counting and taking in fewer than you burn. I myself am a fan of the cyclical ketogenic diet where you curb appetite during the week eating mostly fats and protiens and then do a burnout workout at the end of the week and carb load over the weekend to recover.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-ketogenic-diet

Edit to add: His books are expensive, but He's written a ton of essays and is active on his forums so you can still pick up good deal of info before investing in his books.

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## PatriotOne

> I know, right? If we ever have to run for our lives it would be good to be able to run more than a couple of feet....


**Snort**  Don't forget to practice your serpentine moves also in case you are being shot at .

*The In-Laws..Serpetine Sheldon, Serpentine!*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_w-...eature=related

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## ShowMeLiberty

> **Snort**  Don't forget to practice your serpentine moves also in case you are being shot at .
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_w-...eature=related


Ahahahaha! I KNEW that was going to be the clip before I clicked the link! I knew it! Too funny!

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## ShaneEnochs

Not even halfway through the first day and I'm already having severe cravings.  It takes everything in me not to binge on everything I can find.  I gotta wonder... when did I become like this?

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## trey4sports

> I have been following that thread for a while.  The only reason I went with Atkins is because I've done it before and I know what to look for if my body has a bad reaction to it.  After my wedding, I may switch to paleo.



they are somewhat similar. They both stress protein as your main energy source but primal is more of a lifestyle and is something that you can keep doing for the rest of your life. Whereas Atkins (at least in my opinion) is not something that you can really get burned out doing.

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## schiffheadbaby

Shane what is your age out of curiousity?  Pretty young if I remember?

Carbs/sugar are worse (and more addictive) than most illegal drugs, keep drinking water during the day and stay well-rested.

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## trey4sports

> Not even halfway through the first day and I'm already having severe cravings.  It takes everything in me not to binge on everything I can find.  I gotta wonder... when did I become like this?



That sucks man. Howabout fruit? Are you allowed to eat fruit? That may help satiate your sweet cravings. Plus, most fruit sugar is contained in high fiber fruit which will minimize any kind of blood sugar spikes

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## ShaneEnochs

> Shane what is your age out of curiousity?  Pretty young if I remember?
> 
> Carbs/sugar are worse (and more addictive) than most illegal drugs, keep drinking water during the day and stay well-rested.


Yeah, I'm 24.

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## ShaneEnochs

> That sucks man. Howabout fruit? Are you allowed to eat fruit? That may help satiate your sweet cravings. Plus, most fruit sugar is contained in high fiber fruit which will minimize any kind of blood sugar spikes


You can, but the carbs add up pretty fast.

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## PatriotOne

> Not even halfway through the first day and I'm already having severe cravings.  It takes everything in me not to binge on everything I can find.  I gotta wonder... when did I become like this?


Craving are a bitch for sure.  I would just eat more of the stuff I was allowed till stuffed so even carbs didn't sound good.  Have a big ole steak and some veggies Shane!  It worked for me .

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## PatriotOne

> That sucks man. Howabout fruit? Are you allowed to eat fruit? That may help satiate your sweet cravings. Plus, most fruit sugar is contained in high fiber fruit which will minimize any kind of blood sugar spikes


No fruit Shane!  It will just take ya 2 steps back and you will have to start over.  It will spike your insulin and just make it worse in an hour.  Battle will be lost.

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## QuickZ06

Time for some Winstrol, have you shredded in no time!


But GL on your goal as we need you fit so you can continue the fight for liberty, for many many years to come!

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## PatriotOne

Calories and losing weight is not your battle right now Shane.  Getting the carbs out of your system is where you have to focus.  Eat meat!  Lots of meat!  Bacon!  Sausage!  Steak!  Eggs!  Anything without carbs .  Have 5000 calories if ya need to right now.  Just don't eat carbs!

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## Kluge

> No fruit Shane!  It will just take ya 2 steps back and you will have to start over.  It will spike your insulin and just make it worse in an hour.  Battle will be lost.


I'll second that.

Don't do it. Steak and vegetables are the way to go. Or shrimp and vegetables. For lunch I had stir-fried broccoli & mushrooms with steak and egg--good stuff. This first few days will be hard, but worth it. If you are "losing it," I'd suggest going to a good supermarket and checking out Atkins induction-friendly products, if that's what it takes. I had a couple bars that saved me in the early days.

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## dannno

Wow, all these people in the upper 200's having "great success" with the atkins/paleo diet really makes me jealous as a vegetarian who weights 145 lbs. at 6'1, and can pig out on carbs or any kind of food all I want.

I was 210-220 too, before I went vegetarian.

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## ShaneEnochs

> Craving are a bitch for sure.  I would just eat more of the stuff I was allowed till stuffed so even carbs didn't sound good.  Have a big ole steak and some veggies Shane!  It worked for me .


Just gotta get to the grocery store to get that kind of stuff.  I should have started tomorrow, but I really wanted to start today, and I'm not going to turn back now.  If I say I'll do it tomorrow, then it'll be the next day, then the next, then the next.

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## dannno

In fact, my gf was half jokingly complaining about how skinny I am, so the last few days I decided to pig out even harder on carbs to maybe put on a little padding.

Lost 4 lbs. in the last 4 days.

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## Roxi

The side effects you are referring to.... are you sure that's a "side effect" or your body trying to tell you you are missing something you need. (sure maybe it isn't the bread itself, but something within the bread.

Personally I think taking all of anything out of your diet is a no-no. It always sticks in my head that Dr. Atkins himself died of a heart attack. Jack Lalanne (the juicer guy) however, died happy and healthy of old age at 96.

I'm glad to hear you are using it temporarily and then transferring to the paleo diet (which I've heard good things about but haven't done enough research to have a valid opinion).

I think on any diet, substitutions are necessary (supplements, super food smoothies, etc). Get double the exercise, eat half the food, and replace 50% of your diet with fresh (raw) foods, and limit eating out to twice a month will make anyone lose weight.

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## trey4sports

> No fruit Shane!  It will just take ya 2 steps back and you will have to start over.  It will spike your insulin and just make it worse in an hour.  Battle will be lost.


Fruit wont spike your insulin in most cases. while fruit has moderate sugar levels it is also quite high in fiber thus slowing the rate of absorption. Just look at a GI chart you'll see fruit is low compared to most foods.

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## trey4sports

> The side effects you are referring to.... are you sure that's a "side effect" or your body trying to tell you you are missing something you need. (sure maybe it isn't the bread itself, but something within the bread.
> 
> Personally I think taking all of anything out of your diet is a no-no. It always sticks in my head that Dr. Atkins himself died of a heart attack. Jack Lalanne (the juicer guy) however, died happy and healthy of old age at 96.
> 
> I'm glad to hear you are using it temporarily and then transferring to the paleo diet (which I've heard good things about but haven't done enough research to have a valid opinion).
> 
> I think on any diet, substitutions are necessary (supplements, super food smoothies, etc). Get double the exercise, eat half the food, and replace 50% of your diet with fresh (raw) foods, and limit eating out to twice a month will make anyone lose weight.



i thought he slipped on a sidewalk and had a stroke as a result? Maybe i got that mixed up though.

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## James Madison

Atkins is one of the few diets I've come across that's actually based on real science. It works but eliminating carbs from your diet is definitely a culture shock that will take time to get used to.

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## ShaneEnochs

> It always sticks in my head that Dr. Atkins himself died of a heart attack.


Atkins died from slipping on the sidewalk.

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## Kluge

> In fact, my gf was half jokingly complaining about how skinny I am, so the last few days I decided to pig out even harder on carbs to maybe put on a little padding.
> 
> Lost 4 lbs. in the last 4 days.


Are you intentionally trying to be a dick, or does it come naturally for you?

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## Kluge

> Fruit wont spike your insulin in most cases. while fruit has moderate sugar levels it is also quite high in fiber thus slowing the rate of absorption. Just look at a GI chart you'll see fruit is low compared to most foods.


Yes it will, especially in sensitive people, like myself. Same with whole grains. It is not good during induction and will prevent you from really getting past a carb addiction.

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## PatriotOne

> Just gotta get to the grocery store to get that kind of stuff.  I should have started tomorrow, but I really wanted to start today, and I'm not going to turn back now.  If I say I'll do it tomorrow, then it'll be the next day, then the next, then the next.


Being prepared was REALLY important to my success.  I would get at least 1 week worth of supplies (I get about 2 weeks of meat and 1 week of veggies).  Meat, meat, and some more meat.  Fresh vegetables and salad veggies.  Eggs.  Olive oil.  Real butter...lots of it.  I would make a huge salad every 3 or 4 days and put it in a gallon plastic baggie with a paper towel in there to absorb excess water (leave damp/wet bag in so veggies can draw the moisture out if it needs it). The salad stays really fresh and you can just grab it.    I would prep my veggies for a week.  Wash trim/cut and portion them and put them in quart baggies with a paper towel.  After that it just a grab and steam or however I wanted to cook them.  I would portion my meats and season them and put them in freezer bags (1 or 2 weeks worth).  In the morn, I would just thaw whatever I wanted to eat that day and if I forget I just thawed the meat in 15-30 minutes by putting the freezer bag of meat in cool water.

Spending 1 day shopping and doing prep for the week was a MAJOR reason I was able to succeed during the carb craving period.  I still do prep for a week because I don't like to do it everyday and make a mess but my success isn't dependant on it since I'm not battling the cravings anymore and worried about shoving a carb in my mouth out of desperation .

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## Sola_Fide

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...hlight=rollins

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## kuckfeynes

Definitely lay off the fruit until you've hit your target weight or you'll never get there. Do a little research on leptin resistance/leptin sensitivity, and consider doing a leptin reset. (Pretty close to Atkin's with a few more requirements aimed toward jump starting your out-of-whack hormones.)

Fructose is enemy #1. Go with sucrose if you need sugar -- 70% is used beneficially by your organs and 30% winds up in your liver. Fructose goes 100% to the liver, and the liver is what controls your leptin and insulin.

Right now, unfortunately is the perfect time historically to be leptin resistant because the next few months are harvest time. There is good fruit everywhere, and our ancestors would have needed the extra fat to survive the long winter. A few months of leptin resistance is natural. Unfortunately most modern humans spend their whole lives in this state, the endgame of which is diabetes.

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## PatriotOne

> Just gotta get to the grocery store to get that kind of stuff.  I should have started tomorrow, but I really wanted to start today, and I'm not going to turn back now.  If I say I'll do it tomorrow, then it'll be the next day, then the next, then the next.


One time I was out of suplies because I had eaten everything and left for a week to visit my sister.  I didn't feel like shopping since I just drove across state for 6 hrs so I went and got 2 McDonald's chicken/bacon salads to get me though till the next day and get my supplies.  I wouldn't recommend them on a regular basis because of the preservatives but it worked.  Crisis averted .  If you don't have time to go shopping, go get some chicken salads to last ya!

Go Shane!  Go Shane!  Beat those carbs.



Okay...now I am probably just getting annoying .

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## PatriotOne

> The side effects you are referring to.... are you sure that's a "side effect" or your body trying to tell you you are missing something you need. (sure maybe it isn't the bread itself, but something within the bread.


When people try to quit smoking, their body tells them they need a cigarette.  Does that mean they need nicotine to be healthy?  It's the same thing.  Carbs are an addiction.,..a physical addiction...not just a mental addiction.

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## ShowMeLiberty

Another good option for when you don't have anything at hand but you GOTTA eat... Chipotle Mexican Grill restaurants. They use (as much as possible) grass-fed beef, free-range chicken and organic veggies. You can get a burrito bowl without the rice & beans, heavy on the guacamole & meat. 

Use this page to help plan your order: http://www.chipotle.com/en-US/menu/n...alculator.aspx

I haven't actually done this yet, but it is good to know there's a "safe" option out there.

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## PatriotOne

> Fructose is enemy #1. Go with sucrose if you need sugar


Sorry Kuck but.......

No sugars period Shane.  In any form right now with the exception of what's in veggies.  None.  Zilch.  Nada.

Stay the course Shane.  Listen to Atkins right now and no one giving you any well meaning bad advice.

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## Original_Intent

> Calories and losing weight is not your battle right now Shane.  Getting the carbs out of your system is where you have to focus.  Eat meat!  Lots of meat!  Bacon!  Sausage!  Steak!  Eggs!  Anything without carbs .  Have 5000 calories if ya need to right now.  Just don't eat carbs!


Yep. That's the trick. And remember you only have to get thru a couple of days with no slips and the cravings go away fast.

I'll tell you something that helped me a lot. Not really a recommendation as I don't want to give you a heart attack - but I found that having a Zip-fizz (energy drink) when I was having a strong carb craving really helped. But I realize you are doing this for your health, and I doubt that zip-fizz is good for you, either. It calls itself a "healthy energy drink mix", but I'd feel lousy if you had a heart attack because of me.

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## furface

Atkins was overweight and died of heart disease.  Don't do that to yourself.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/store_starch_solution.html

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## ShowMeLiberty

> Atkins was overweight and died of heart disease.  Don't do that to yourself.
> 
> http://www.drmcdougall.com/store_starch_solution.html


Don't spread lies. I never have and never will do the Atkins diet but what's the point in lying about the man?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_atkins

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## PatriotOne

> Wow, all these people in the upper 200's having "great success" with the atkins/paleo diet really makes me jealous as a vegetarian who weights 145 lbs. at 6'1, and can pig out on carbs or any kind of food all I want.
> 
> I was 210-220 too, before I went vegetarian.


I heard something in this interview about vegetarians make up a rather interesting percentage of people who go to her for mental health problems.  I was only half listening when I caught it and mean to go back and listen, but in case you are interested, I think it was in the first hr (which you don't have to be a member to listen too).  I think it was something about your brain being deprived of some nutrient or something that meats provide.  She promotes Paleo but has credentials working in the mental health fields also.

Nora Gedgaudas - Hour 1 - The Paleo Diet, Primal Body & Primal Mind
June 10, 2012

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...RIR-120610.php

Nora Gedgaudas is one of the world's leading experts on Paleolithic (Paleo) nutrition and author of the international bestselling book "Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond The Paleo Diet For Total Health and a Longer Life." She is Board-certified in Holistic Nutrition through the National Association of Nutritional Professionals and is a Certified Nutritional Therapist. *Nora served as a trainer for the State of Washington Institute of Mental Health*, illuminating nutrition's impact on mental health for State health care workers at all levels. She maintains a private practice in Portland, Oregon as both a Certified Nutritional Therapist and a *Board-certified Clinical Neurofeedback Specialist*. In August 2011, Nora was a featured presenter at the Ancestral Health Symposium at UCLA-billed as "the Woodstock of evolutionary medicine." We'll discuss the pre-agriculture diet and lifestyle. Also, we cover the negative impacts of agriculture upon our environment and the ill effects of grain in our bodies. Nora provides specific information on why the paleo diet is the best for the human body.

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## Sola_Fide

> Atkins was overweight and died of heart disease.  Don't do that to yourself.
> 
> http://www.drmcdougall.com/store_starch_solution.html


I thought he slipped on ice and fell or something?

Anyway, it is processed carbohydrates that cause heart disease, not good fats or even saturated fats.  The government food pyramids are wrong.  They are based off diets that were used to fatten cattle.  Way too heavy on sugar, grains, and starches.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I thought he slipped on ice and fell or something?


He did slip on ice and suffered major head trauma.  Didn't stop the media from trying to blame it on a heart attack though .  

_On April 8, 2003, at age 72, a day after a major snowstorm in New York, Atkins slipped on icy pavement, suffering severe head trauma. He spent nine days in intensive care, before dying on April 17, 2003 from complications from his head injury._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...tionist)#Death

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## fletcher

I don't understand why people do ridiculous diets like Atkins.  Why not just eat healthy and exercise?

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## ShowMeLiberty

> I don't understand why people do ridiculous diets like Atkins.  Why not just eat healthy and exercise?


Because the definition of "eat healthy" is not what we have been led to believe by the government for the past three decades or so.

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## dannno

> Are you intentionally trying to be a dick, or does it come naturally for you?


Just citing my observations.

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## ShaneEnochs

> I don't understand why people do ridiculous diets like Atkins.  Why not just eat healthy and exercise?


I don't possess the will power to eat healthy yet, nor do I have the physical strength/endurance or mental condition to exercise properly.

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## dannno

> I heard something in this interview about vegetarians make up a rather interesting percentage of people who go to her for mental health problems.


Meat provides pretty much everything you need for nutrition because what you are eating was once alive and so it must contain much of that nutritional content in and of itself. So eating meat is a lazy way of getting most all of your nutritional needs met, but it isn't necessarily the healthiest way to deliver those nutrients for everyone.

There are some people who go vegetarian and don't pay attention to their diet and don't make sure they are getting all the nutrients they need. Nobody said going vegetarian was going to be easy.

However I guarantee any vegetarian who consumes some raw, some cooked whole fruits and vegetables, a variety of whole grains and coconut oil, hemp seeds or hemp seed oil, olive oil or even takes a simple fish oil supplement will be just fine. 

Personally I'm not strict vegetarian, I eat fish once or twice a month and will make occasional exceptions for game meats like a few times a year. 

My mental health has vastly improved since becoming mostly vegetarian. My physical health has improved 1000%, and many MMA fighters are finding increased energy levels through a vegetarian diet.

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## pen_thief

> So today I started the Atkins Diet.  I got on the scale and realized just how badly I really needed to lose weight.  I stand at 5'7 and weigh 297.  I'm getting married in one month, so by then I hope to weigh about 275.  I've been on this diet before, so I know I can drop weight pretty fast in the beginning.  Anyway, this thread will be like a little journal to let you all know how I'm doing with it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Day 1: 297 lbs*


Please be careful. There's mounting evidence that excessive animal proteins heavily promote cancer. I know the "Forks over Knives" movie was greatly contested and some claim junk science was used, but all you have to do is take a look around at people who are getting degenerative diseases. They are quite heavy on the meats. Grilled meat is the absolute worst due to the carcinogens produced during the "charring." 

My mom lost a lot of weight doing the Budwig Diet.  To date, she's lost about 50-60 pounds and she just started this in January.  Yes, it's a protocol best known in the alternative cancer treatment community, but I think it's a protocol sooo many people should try since it's a cancer and heart disease preventative, something about 50% of us will experience in our lifetimes. (My mom's weight loss had nothing to do with the cancer, btw. She skipped chemo and went straight for Budwig. Actually she found out most people with multiple myeloma gain weight since you're encouraged to eat quite a bit to get your strength back after radiation.) 

I had once considered Atkins too because it DOES work so well, but only because it puts your body in a VERY acidic state, which is exactly what cancer needs. Budwig oxygenates your body, Atkins deprives it of oxygen.
(**Editing my post here because there are some studies that claim ketosis can "starve" cancer. And there are studies which claim the opposite. It's all so confusing, dammit.  Since Budwig works so well when properly followed, I think it's what I'd prefer to stick with.**)

Here's mom at her heaviest

Here she was 2 weeks ago (still a few pounds to goal)


Looking pretty good for a lady who had got a cancer diagnosis and vertebra fracture circa December of last year 
Sorry to sound preachy.  I am just so sick of seeing cancer/heart disease strike people down. Best of luck to you and congrats on the upcoming wedding!

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## furface

Atkins widow claims he was 195 lbs and around 6 feet tall when he died.  This is his widow's claim and is unverifiable because of confidentiality of medical records.  Even at that weight, he's no skinny minny.  His ideal weight should be around 165 lbs.  If he's the guru of this movement, that's still fat.

The best information says he had a history of heart disease and relatively young people don't just slip on pavement and die unless they're unhealthy to begin with.  My 90 YO mother-in-law slipped and fell and bruised herself the other day, and she's doing fine. Nobody knows exactly what caused his death, but the primary factor is surely related to an unhealthy lifestyle.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/ny...ted=all&src=pm




> Dr. John McDougall, a member of the Physicians Committee and an internist who had debated Dr. Atkins, said there was no doubt that Dr. Atkins had lost weight after his cardiac arrest, but before that was a different story. ''I knew the man,'' he said. ''He was grossly overweight. I thought he was 40 to 60 pounds overweight when I saw him, and I'm being kind.''
> 
> As for the buildup of fluids in his final days, he said, ''I never heard of anyone gaining 60 pounds of fluid in nine days.'' He said he suspected that Dr. Atkins was unable to follow his own diet. Dr. McDougall agreed that the diet produced weight loss, but said he considered it extremely unhealthy and hard to follow.


I won't even attempt to change the minds of people who think that starch causes heart disease.  Go ahead and live like Atkins, have a lousy heart, and die at 72.

BTW, I'm a low fat Vegan, 5-10 and 140 lbs.  Any FAtkins dieters want to post their stats?

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## fletcher

> I don't possess the will power to eat healthy yet, nor do I have the physical strength/endurance or mental condition to exercise properly.


Yes you do.  You just need to stop the excuses and do it.  Throw out all your crap food and replace it with healthy food.  And start exercising today.  Sitting around eating Atkins isn't going to magically build up your physical strength/endurance to the point where you want to exercise.  You're getting married in a month.  You don't have time to waste.  If you're not going to get a trainer you should buy (or download) a program like p90x that has a routine that you follow.  Do it today.

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## farreri

If I can throw my 2 cents into this too, a couple pieces of advice:

#1 - Eat about 6-8 small meals throughout the day instead of the traditional 2-3 big meals a day with unhealthy snacks in between.  Think of yourself like a grazing animal eating small bites throughout the day instead of lions who go long periods between meals, then gorge themselves so much they have to lay on their backs because their bellies are too full! The bigger the meal you eat in one sitting, the more energy your body uses to digest it and the more tired you become afterward. 

Eating small portions throughout the day helps keep your insulin levels more balanced.  Atkins talks about the importance of not letting your insulin levels spike.   

I like to fix large portions of my meals and put them in those Glad reusable containers and just snack out of those throughout the day.  I hardly use plates anymore!

#2 - Keep your body alkaline.  Your blood pH has to be about 7.4 pH, so your combined food intake should be at that level, or a little bit higher alkaline.  If people eat an acidic diet (fast food, sugary drinks, too much meats, not enough vegetables), their body's will start leaching minerals (which are mostly alkaline) from itself to keep their blood pH at the 7.4 level.  Lot of holistic Dr's believe this self-leaching of minerals makes us susceptible to illness, especially cancer (some popular natural cancer treatments include using baking soda or cessium, both being very alkaline substances). 

Of course the beginning phases of the Atkins diet are going to be very acidic since you'll be eating mostly meats.  Between meals, you can take a little bit of baking soda to help offset the acid pH and it would be advisable to supplement you diet with a mineral complex.  A mineral complex formula with trace mineral I hear are particularly effective.

It would also be best to use an alkaline water, such as "Kangen" water.  Not only is it very alkaline, it's negatively charged, which keeps the water particles spaces apart more, so it can be absorbed easier into your cells.

#3 - I've been reading a lot about how the biggest cause of illness is stress.  From there, I've been reading a lot about emotional health and reading up on the newer field of "energy medicine."  What I keep coming across from the practitioners in this field is that they say there is a link between obesity and emotional traumas.  People with severe emotional traumas from the past tend to develop addictions to things like drugs, or even food, to help numb them from the emotional pain.  Here's a list of these newer energy medicine techniques that deal with releasing emotional traumas.

#4 - As many here already stated, the optimum diet is the Primal/Caveman diet.  It's how humans ate for thousands and thousands of years before modern technology started coming along and causing all this havoc!  So leading into 4th phase of the Atkins diet, it would be advisable to make that transition into the Primal diet.

#5 - Gluten-Free.  One of the benefits of the Primal diet is that it's gluten-free.  Read up why being gluten-free is so important and how gluten causes inflammation inside the body, which along with being too acidic, is so detrimental to your health.


Good luck, Shane!

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## PatriotOne

> My mental health has vastly improved since becoming mostly vegetarian.


Thing is Danno...crazy people don't know they are crazy.


hehe....j/k.  

Glad your diet works for you.  I've never tried to go vegetarian so I certainly won't throw any stones at it.  I do have lot's of experience being a meat eater though and great success not only with health but with weight loss so I am sticking with that personally.

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## amonasro

> I don't possess the will power to eat healthy yet, nor do I have the physical strength/endurance or mental condition to exercise properly.


Of course you do. You control your limbs, right? You have a brain. So put down the ice cream spoon, do some reading and get outside and move around.

The whole AA mantra of "you don't have control of the alcohol, it controls you" is complete bull$#@!. We posses the willpower to not buy the six pack, to not mix the drink, to not order 5 beers with dinner. Same goes for food. The only time we need medical help is when your body is truly addicted to the alcohol (aka drinking all day long, heavily), or you weigh 800 pounds and literally can't get out of the house. Thankfully for most of us, it doesn't come to that.

I've tried plenty of diets. The paleo craze is just a new form of Atkins with healthy carbs added in. I have to lose about 15 pounds this summer so I decided to run 6 miles three times a week, plus weightlifting twice (also jogging to the gym).  Works like a charm, doesn't matter what I eat. You actually crave less junk as your body wants to mobilize quality calories for repair.

If you've never exercised seriously though, I suggest starting very easy and working up. Exercising 5 days/week is super difficult at first.

----------


## pen_thief

> My mental health has vastly improved since becoming mostly vegetarian. My physical health has improved 1000%, and many MMA fighters are finding increased energy levels through a vegetarian diet.


I would have to agree. I went vegetarian November of last year. I still have eggs, cheese and half & half in the occasional cup of coffee, but I know my proportion of fruits & veggies should definitely outweigh those. I had depression so bad due to hormonal issues that I...let's just say I was a danger to myself. I had horrible road rage too where I would stay upset for far too long if someone pissed me off in traffic. Now I just utter a half-hearted curse and continue about my drive. I know I'd feel even better if I cut out sugar completely. That always gives me an initial bump and leaves me feeling like a load of crap. I've never tried crack, but I hear sugar is harder to give up (if you're addicted like me) than crack. That's the next challenge...

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## ShowMeLiberty

> Atkins widow claims he was 195 lbs and around 6 feet tall when he died.  This is his widow's claim and is unverifiable because of confidentiality of medical records.  Even at that weight, he's no skinny minny.  His ideal weight should be around 165 lbs.


There is no such thing as a standard "ideal" weight. Some people are more muscular than others. Some have higher bone density. These are just a couple of things that will affect one's weight and have absolutely nothing to do with being fat.




> The best information says he had a history of heart disease and relatively young people don't just slip on pavement and die unless they're unhealthy to begin with.


They do if they land on their _heads_. Which is supposedly what happened to Atkins.

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## PatriotOne

> BTW, I'm a low fat Vegan, 5-10 and 140 lbs.


As a female, I wouldn't even look at a guy that skinny.  Last time I did Atkins, I got down to 146 at 5'7 and was quite skinny and strong (lean muscles) and played raquetball or tennis almost daily fun and competively in tournaments around my state without breaking a sweat.

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## farreri

IMO, the only people who can be truly healthy on a vegetarian diet are those who naturally gain muscle mass easily.

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## PatriotOne

> The best information says he had a history of heart disease and relatively young people don't just slip on pavement and die unless they're unhealthy to begin with.


When did 72 yrs old become relatively young?  Relative to what?

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## furface

> There is no such thing as a standard "ideal" weight.


195 lbs and 6 feet, if that's really true, is healthy maybe if you're a body builder and it's all muscle.  In Atkins case he was likely heavier than that and certainly was no body builder.




> They do if they land on their heads. Which is supposedly what happened to Atkins.


What did he do?  Jump and do a somersault?  If you slip and fall and are healthy, you react and break your fall accordingly.  He was just walking, not ice skating or skiing.  He was a sickly person who was older than his years and heavier than he should have been.

Go ahead and eat that stupid diet.  Bill Clinton tried a variant of it for a while and kept getting clogs in his circulatory system.  He finally switched to vegan and is doing great.

Everybody I know who goes plant/starch based loses weight and is really healthy.  Is this high protein thing still making its way around?  Weird.




> When did 72 yrs old become relatively young? Relative to what?


I guess not according to Atkins fans.  Believe me if you're in your mid 60s and healthy, you're thinking that 72 is relatively young.  There's no reason that people shouldn't live healthily into their 90s.  This is the problem with our society today.  Go out and fight wars for Israel and die when you're 70.  I don't plan on doing that, thank you.

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## PatriotOne

> What did he do?  Jump and do a somersault?  If you slip and fall and are healthy, you react and break your fall accordingly.  He was just walking, not ice skating or skiing.


He was walking on ice and hit concrete .

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, a day after a major snowstorm in New York, Atkins slipped on icy pavement, suffering severe head trauma. He spent nine days in intensive care, before dying on April 17, 2003 from complications from his head injury.

*Girl, 11, dies after slipping on ice*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/ja...falling-on-ice

An 11-year-old girl died today after she slipped on ice outside her primary school, police said

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/15516806

*Brian Metcalfe, 21*, found with head injuries in Kendal, Cumbria, after he is thought to have slipped on ice. He died later that day at Royal Lancaster Infirmary.

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## furface

> Girl, 11, dies after slipping on ice


She likely had a brain aneurism or something.  Young people die of things like heart attacks & circulatory problems somewhat infrequently because of circulatory defects.

I'm guessing that dying from a mild head injury is more common among adolescents and teen agers than it is for older people because you're weeding out people who have circulatory weeknesses.  Point is that something like that indicates some other form of defect.  Kids slip & fall all the time and don't die.  Why did she?  There is likely a reason.  Atkins may have had a congenital aneurism, but it would likely have manifested itself by age 72.

Dying from a head injury from a normal fall in any case suggests other problems.  Does it prove?  No, but it's very suggestive.  People fall all the time & they don't die.  If you're sick and you fall, you're more likely to die.

I had a stroke (before I went vegan) and could barely use my arms, but somehow I managed to break my fall when I collapsed.  My entire right side was completely bruised, but I was able to protect my head.  Why wasn't Atkins able to do this?  I would expect a healthy 72 year old to be better at it than an 11 YO girl because he has more experience at it.

Most likely he was walking around in a ketosis inspired daze and was unable to react because his circulatory capacity was so crappy.

Nobody knows what the reasons for Atkins untimely death were, but if you're looking for an example of someone on the diet who lived a long, healthy diet, you're not going to find it with the founder.

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## ShaneEnochs

> Of course you do. You control your limbs, right? You have a brain. So put down the ice cream spoon, do some reading and get outside and move around.


Actually I don't buy junk food.  At all.  I just eat a crapload of healthy food, which is just as bad.  Sometimes I go through two cans of green beans in a sitting.  Then again sometimes I eat an entire bag of salad, or like ten carrots.  I just eat too much, and I can't control it yet.

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## Revolution9

> Sorry Kuck but.......
> 
> No sugars period Shane.  In any form right now with the exception of what's in veggies.  None.  Zilch.  Nada.
> 
> Stay the course Shane.  Listen to Atkins right now and no one giving you any well meaning bad advice.


The best hit to quell  massive sweet tooth is blackstrap molasses. One swig and yer good. Also good for hemmorhoids, skin and greying hair.

Rev9

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## anaconda

> I have been following that thread for a while.  The only reason I went with Atkins is because I've done it before and I know what to look for if my body has a bad reaction to it.  After my wedding, I may switch to paleo.


How many carbs are you allotting yourself? If possible eat lots of low carb vegetables on your Atkins.

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## PatriotOne

> She likely had a brain aneurism or something.  Young people die of things like heart attacks & circulatory problems somewhat infrequently because of circulatory defects.
> 
> I'm guessing that dying from a mild head injury is more common among adolescents and teen agers than it is for older people because you're weeding out people who have circulatory weeknesses.  Point is that something like that indicates some other form of defect.  Kids slip & fall all the time and don't die.  Why did she?  There is likely a reason.
> 
> Dying from a head injury from a normal fall in any case suggests other problems.


Good grief.  Ignoring you now because your an idiot and don't want to clog up Shane's thread rambling on with an idiot.

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## ShowMeLiberty

> She likely had a brain aneurism or something.  Young people die of things like heart attacks & circulatory problems somewhat infrequently because of circulatory defects.
> 
> I'm guessing that dying from a mild head injury is more common among adolescents and teen agers than it is for older people because you're weeding out people who have circulatory weeknesses.  Point is that something like that indicates some other form of defect.  Kids slip & fall all the time and don't die.  Why did she?  There is likely a reason.
> 
> Dying from a head injury from a normal fall in any case suggests other problems.  Does it prove?  No, but it's very suggestive.  People fall all the time & they don't die.  If you're sick and you fall, you're more likely to die.


And where did you get your medical degree? You aren't making any kind of sense at all now. This is what happens when brains are deprived of the fats they need to function properly.

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## PatriotOne

> The best hit to quell  massive sweet tooth is blackstrap molasses. One swig and yer good. Also good for hemmorhoids, skin and greying hair.
> 
> Rev9


So do ya drink it or apply it to the grey hair?

hehe...j/k

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## dannno

> As a female, I wouldn't even look at a guy that skinny.


That'd be your loss (if I didn't have a gf).. I'm pretty fit and what my _frame_ might lack in girth I make up for in other areas.

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## dannno

> Actually I don't buy junk food.  At all.  I just eat a crapload of healthy food, which is just as bad.  Sometimes I go through two cans of green beans in a sitting.  Then again sometimes I eat an entire bag of salad, or like ten carrots.  I just eat too much, and I can't control it yet.


Have you been to an endocrinologist?

I'm pretty sure it's nearly impossible to get fat off salad, carrots and green beans.

Have you considered trying the Master Cleanse? I wonder if your body just isn't absorbing nutrients properly. Sometimes your body gives you hunger signals because it is lacking nutrients.

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## PatriotOne

> And where did you get your medical degree? You aren't making any kind of sense at all now. This is what happens when brains are deprived of the fats they need to function properly.


No kidding!  Girl falls and dies of head trauma yet he thinks she had to of had an aneurism or something else because it's impossible for a healthy person to die of brain trauma.  

I vote we force him to change his name from furface to furbrain .

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## farreri

> Most likely he was walking around in a ketosis inspired daze and was unable to react because his circulatory capacity was so crappy.


Can you tell me the diet you're on?  Because if your diet makes you believe the above, I totally want to AVOID your diet!!!

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## furface

> And where did you get your medical degree? You aren't making any kind of sense at all now. This is what happens when brains are deprived of the fats they need to function properly. I vote we force him to change his name from furface to furbrain Can you tell me the diet you're on? Because if your diet makes you believe the above, I totally want to AVOID your diet!!!


Thanks for acknowledging that y'all have no intelligent responses.  Pure insults effectively prove that.

Come on.  What's you're weight.  What's your height?  What do you eat?  There may be a few liars, but most people won't.

Me: Vegan.  5-10 140 lbs.

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## farreri

> Me: Vegan.


Ah, that explains it!

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## PatriotOne

> Me: Vegan.  5-10 140 lbs.


Is this your picture?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=short...9,r:0,s:0,i:74

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## Revolution9

> Thanks for acknowledging that y'all have no intelligent responses.  Pure insults effectively prove that.
> 
> Come on.  What's you're weight.  What's your height?  What do you eat?  There may be a few liars, but most people won't.
> 
> Me: Vegan.  5-10 140 lbs.


Me.. Meateater. 5'11 160. works 14 -18 hours a day, can do wind sprints endlessly of 250 yards with 50 yard walk between... massive endurance levels ..54 years old. Tried vegetarian for several years and lost strength and endurance, nails and teeth became weak or brittle. Allergic to gluten and beans, lactose, soy. Favorite meat is grass fed ribeye steak rare and charred on the frill. Interestingly, to get rid of poison in the gut they often give you activated charcoal. I think we should be charring our meats to get that activated charcoal. There is also recent research to suggest that energy get created when you force organic molecules into carbon nanotubes which will release electricity and photons and may be one of the energy drivers at the atomic level in the body, brain and heart. 

Rev9

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## Kluge

> As a female, I wouldn't even look at a guy that skinny.  Last time I did Atkins, I got down to 146 at 5'7 and was quite skinny and strong (lean muscles) and played raquetball or tennis almost daily fun and competively in tournaments around my state without breaking a sweat.


I'm pretty small-boned, so at the same height--135lbs is what I'm thinking my ideal post-baby weight will be. Prior to baby, it was about 120-130. At this height, the lowest I've weighed is about 105--which was far too skinny for me.

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## furface

> As a female, I wouldn't even look at a guy that skinny. Last time I did Atkins, I got down to 146 at 5'7


Resorting to using personal sexual preferences as support for your ideas, LOL.  "Last time I did Atkins"  That's a common statement for Atkins dieters.  They can't stick to the diet because it make you sick.  How fat are you now?

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## PatriotOne

> I'm pretty small-boned, so at the same height--135lbs is what I'm thinking my ideal post-baby weight will be. Prior to baby, it was about 120-130. At this height, the lowest I've weighed is about 105--which was far too skinny for me.


I'm medium boned but I was so active with raquetball/tennis/hiking/bicycling, etc., I had pretty dense muscle which weighs more anyways.  I was a fricken machine back then .  (this was when I was in my 30's till around 43.  That's when, for some fricken crazy reason, all sensibilities left me and I started eating bunches of carbs again.  stupid, stupid, stupid!

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## Kluge

> Resorting to using personal sexual preferences as support for your ideas, LOL.  "Last time I did Atkins"  That's a common statement for Atkins dieters.  They can't stick to the diet because it make you sick.  How fat are you now?


Why did you make a conscious decision to troll Shane's thread?

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## Kluge

> I'm medium boned but I was so active with raquetball/tennis/hiking/bicycling, etc., I had pretty dense muscle which weighs more anyways.  I was a fricken machine back then .  (this was when I was in my 30's till around 43.  That's when, for some fricken crazy reason, all sensibilities left me and I started eating bunches of carbs again.  stupid, stupid, stupid!


Yeah, I've always been a runner/hiker--had/have the long muscle structure. Definitely not dense, muscularly. Never have been. Especially upper body.

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## furface

> Why did you make a conscious decision to troll Shane's thread?


Another pure insult.  Thank you.

----------


## farreri

> "Last time I did Atkins"  That's a common statement for Atkins dieters.  They can't stick to the diet because it make you sick.  How fat are you now?


I couldn't stick to being vegan because of how sick it made me.  How skinny are you now?

How about you start your own thread about the "wonders of veganism" and the "evils of the Atkins diet" instead of derailing Shane's thread?


Btw, I've never known anyone who couldn't stick with the Atkins diet because it made them sick.  Most who quit were ignorant to think they only needed to do phase 1 and somehow be able to go back to the crappy way they used to eat.  Some weren't disciplined enough to stick with it,  especially getting through the initial sugar cravings.  Some couldn't do Atkins without getting rid of all the tempting forbidden foods in their house, or didn't have help from those living with them.

However, almost all the people I've met who've stopped being vegetarian/vegan did so because that diet made them too weak and too thin.  In other words, too sick.

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## PatriotOne

> Yeah, I've always been a runner/hiker--had/have the long muscle structure. Definitely not dense, muscularly. Never have been. Especially upper body.


I've never liked running but loved hiking up mountains.  A normal Sat and Sun early morn would include taking my dog and climbing one of our local hills to excercise the dog....got some billy goat in me I think.  I just got a 6 mo old lab 4 days ago so I can start doing it again.  My last dog was put to sleep (14 yrs old) so I decided to get another hiking pardner.

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## Kluge

> Another pure insult.  Thank you.


You're welcome. Veganism must make one's skin rather thin.




> I couldn't stick to being vegan because of how sick it made me.  How skinny are you now?
> 
> How about you start your own thread about the "wonders of veganism" and the "evils of the Atkins diet" instead of derailing Shane's thread?


Wow. What a novel idea!




> I've never liked running but loved hiking up mountains.  A normal Sat and Sun early morn would include taking my dog and climbing one of our local hills to excercise the dog....got some billy goat in me I think.  I just got a 6 mo old lab 4 days ago so I can start doing it again.  My last dog was put to sleep (14 yrs old).


My dog's 15, and sometime in the next week it looks like we're going to have to put her to sleep. Probably kidney failure, and she's been having seizures.

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## PatriotOne

> How about you start your own thread about the "wonders of veganism" and the "evils of the Atkins diet" instead of derailing Shane's thread?


That's a good idea.  If he refuses, how about you start it and I'll toss a piece of tofu in there to attrack him?

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## ShowMeLiberty

> My dog's 15, and sometime in the next week it looks like we're going to have to put her to sleep. Probably kidney failure, and she's been having seizures.


Sorry to hear that. It's always so hard to let them go even when we know we must.

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## PatriotOne

> My dog's 15, and sometime in the next week it looks like we're going to have to put her to sleep. Probably kidney failure, and she's been having seizures.


So sorry Kludge.  It's hard  .

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> How many carbs are you allotting yourself? If possible eat lots of low carb vegetables on your Atkins.


20g a day for two weeks.

----------


## farreri

> That's a good idea.  If he refuses, how about you start it and I'll toss a piece of tofu in there to attrack him?

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> 20g a day for two weeks.


Hard, but it can be done. Stock up on some good free range eggs and eat lots of them. Satisfying and almost no carbs - but you probably already know that.

----------


## farreri

> 20g a day for two weeks.


Shane, have you tried before the Primal diet, along with eating more smaller portioned meals throughout the day?  I ask because Atkins diet was created for those who had a hard to losing weight on any diet and it was a way to "jump start" their metabolism -- high protein and fat, few carbs.  I would usually recommend people try the Primal diet/more frequent smaller meals method first.

Interestingly, I've had success with family members and friends by telling them to do the Atkins diet _backwards!_  Meaning, start with phase 4 first, then go to phase 3, then phase 2 and so on.  It was so successful, none of them had to do the extreme first phase, so this method was more gentler on the body.

----------


## PatriotOne

> 20g a day for two weeks.


Awesome!  I suppose my spackling is dry now so I guess I better go paint that bedroom that's on my agenda today.  Sorry things got so derailed in your thread and I know I didn't help.  I'll be a good girl now .

Good luck getting through the day!

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Shane, have you tried before the Primal diet, along with eating more smaller portioned meals throughout the day?  I ask because Atkins diet was created for those who had a hard to losing weight on any diet and it was a way to "jump start" their metabolism -- high protein and fat, few carbs.  I would usually recommend people try the Primal diet/more frequent smaller meals method first.
> 
> Interestingly, I've had success with family members and friends by telling them to do the Atkins diet _backwards!_  Meaning, start with phase 4 first, then go to phase 3, then phase 2 and so on.  It was so successful, none of them had to do the extreme first phase, so this method was more gentler on the body.


That makes a lot of sense, actually. I've been doing Primal for almost two months now, keeping carbs under 100g a day to lose some weight. It was really difficult at first but now I'm staying under 70g per day without even thinking about it. The intermittent fasting has become a lot easier over time as well.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Shane, have you tried before the Primal diet, along with eating more smaller portioned meals throughout the day?


I've never tried primal/paleo.  I personally feel that even though it's restrictive, Atkins allows me to eat more of the things that I actually like to eat, such as bacon, cheese, sausage, etc.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> I've never tried primal/paleo.  I personally feel that even though it's restrictive, Atkins allows me to eat more of the things that I actually like to eat, such as bacon, cheese, sausage, etc.


You can eat all of that with the Primal Blueprint diet. The author, Mark Sisson, says there's no such thing as too much bacon. 

If you want to check it out, this is the site: http://www.marksdailyapple.com

----------


## TNforPaul45

Atkins died after a fall on a sidewalk, and the complications from that.

I started the Primal diet last February, and I've lost 85 lbs since then, started exercising last July. It works. 

Atkins is basically Primal after the first 2 weeks. The first two weeks is the severe induction phase of < 20g carbs a day, and Atkins said that you can continue that induction phase if your weight loss does not jump start as fast as it should.

It works though, and its safe, and it will change your life.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Atkins died after a fall on a sidewalk, and the complications from that.
> 
> I started the Primal diet last February, and I've lost 85 lbs since then, started exercising last July. It works. 
> 
> Atkins is basically Primal after the first 2 weeks. The first two weeks is the severe induction phase of < 20g carbs a day, and Atkins said that you can continue that induction phase if your weight loss does not jump start as fast as it should.
> 
> It works though, and its safe, and it will change your life.


Wow, congratulations on your weight loss!  What was your beginning weight?

----------


## Liberty74

Atkins himself died overweight and of a heart attack. The diet is unsafe long term pass 6 months. Atkins himself even adjusted his extreme anti-carb belief in his writings before his death, hence changing his original Atkins plan.

Listen, your body needs good carbs, good fats and good protein eating in calories that is in relation to your exercise/activity. It's real simple - calories in equals calories out. If you don't burn the calories (regardless of where they come from), you will get fat. 

I have been studying health and nutrition for over 20 years. I eat 5 meals a day which includes a whey protein shake with fruit. I am completely fit without an ounce of body fat. I work out at least 6 days a week and have a six pack. I stay away from all "processed carbs" which is usually stuff that comes in a box. Although if someone brings in a box of Dunkin Donuts at work, I am one of the first to dive in. I know I will burn it off after work because I hit the gym daily.

What to drink? skim or soy milk, green tea from a bag (I like Tazo), coffee (black only), filtered water.

What to eat? raw fruits and all veggies (fresh and organic when you can afford and eat all colors of the rainbow), brown rice or small amount of white is even fine if you can't stand the texture of brown, oatmeal cereals (Bob's Red Mill has a very nice selection), turkey, chicken breasts, wild caught salmon, albacore tuna, whole wheat or jewish rye bread, greek yogurt, almonds, cashews, olive oil, avocados, whole grains, flax seed, red or white potatoes, etc.

What NOT to drink or eat? Avoid juices, sodas (including diet), beer, red meat, white flour, vegetable oil, hydrogenated oils, cookies, cheese, canned soups, instant rices, fried foods, chips, crackers, etc.

For long term health, eating an anti-inflammatory diet as listed above is ideal. Almost all health issues are due to inflammation. 

As I stated above - calories in must equal calories out or you lose. The reason Atkins works for most in the short term is because people are clueless on exactly how many calories they consume in a day. Jump on the Atkins and the weight comes off because Atkins restricts calories due to the elimination of carbs which tends to be the highest caloric food consumed by Americans. But as I said, an extreme anti-carb diet is very unhealthy and can cause all sorts of health problems. Besides, most people can't go anti-carb for a long period of time, hence failure. 

It's okay to cheat every once in a while. Once a week I'll eat an entire Kashi pizza or Amy's Organic and non GMO pizza which is to die for. You have to know your body and what it can consume according to your activity. Americans are eating junk these days, eating too many calories and not moving their asses. And idiots on the left believe if we just tax fast food, ban salt, limit soda sizes, etc will reverse that trend? Please...

If anyone has a question, feel free to private message me. 

I have helped people at work lose weight by following the above plan. Those that don't continue to look for that latest fat loss scheme and remain overweight. You honestly have to change your entire mindset to food to win. It takes time. It takes patience but once you get there, you won't look back.

----------


## dannno

> If he refuses, how about you start it and I'll toss a piece of tofu in there to attrack him?


Stop, you're making my mouth water!!

----------


## trey4sports

> *Atkins himself died overweight and of a heart attack*. The diet is unsafe long term pass 6 months. Atkins himself even adjusted his extreme anti-carb belief in his writings before his death, hence changing his original Atkins plan.
> 
> Listen, your body needs good carbs, good fats and good protein eating in calories that is in relation to your exercise/activity. It's real simple - calories in equals calories out. If you don't burn the calories (regardless of where they come from), you will get fat. 
> 
> I have been studying health and nutrition for over 20 years. I eat 5 meals a day which includes a whey protein shake with fruit. I am completely fit without an ounce of body fat. I work out at least 6 days a week and have a six pack. I stay away from all "processed carbs" which is usually stuff that comes in a box. Although if someone brings in a box of Dunkin Donuts at work, I am one of the first to dive in. I know I will burn it off after work because I hit the gym daily.
> 
> What to drink? skim or soy milk, green tea from a bag (I like Tazo), coffee (black only), filtered water.
> 
> What to eat? raw fruits and all veggies (fresh and organic when you can afford and eat all colors of the rainbow), brown rice or small amount of white is even fine if you can't stand the texture of brown, oatmeal cereals (Bob's Red Mill has a very nice selection), turkey, chicken breasts, wild caught salmon, albacore tuna, whole wheat or jewish rye bread, greek yogurt, almonds, cashews, olive oil, avocados, whole grains, flax seed, red or white potatoes, etc.
> ...



facepalm.

Atkins died from a slip-and-fall accident which has been covered REPEATEDLY in this thread. Jeesh.

----------


## dannno

> Atkins himself died overweight and of a heart attack. The diet is unsafe long term pass 6 months. Atkins himself even adjusted his extreme anti-carb belief in his writings before his death, hence changing his original Atkins plan.
> 
> Listen, your body needs good carbs, good fats and good protein eating in calories that is in relation to your exercise/activity. It's real simple - calories in equals calories out. If you don't burn the calories (regardless of where they come from), you will get fat. 
> 
> I have been studying health and nutrition for over 20 years. I eat 5 meals a day which includes a whey protein shake with fruit. I am completely fit without an ounce of body fat. I work out at least 6 days a week and have a six pack. I stay away from all "processed carbs" which is usually stuff that comes in a box. Although if someone brings in a box of Dunkin Donuts at work, I am one of the first to dive in. I know I will burn it off after work because I hit the gym daily.
> 
> What to drink? skim or soy milk, green tea from a bag (I like Tazo), coffee (black only), filtered water.
> 
> What to eat? raw fruits and all veggies (fresh and organic when you can afford and eat all colors of the rainbow), brown rice or small amount of white is even fine if you can't stand the texture of brown, oatmeal cereals (Bob's Red Mill has a very nice selection), turkey, chicken breasts, wild caught salmon, albacore tuna, whole wheat or jewish rye bread, greek yogurt, almonds, cashews, olive oil, avocados, whole grains, flax seed, red or white potatoes, etc.
> ...


Sounds good to me, except for that first sentence, apparently.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Atkins himself died overweight and of a heart attack. The diet is unsafe long term pass 6 months. Atkins himself even adjusted his extreme anti-carb belief in his writings before his death, hence changing his original Atkins plan.
> 
> Listen, your body needs good carbs, good fats and good protein eating in calories that is in relation to your exercise/activity. It's real simple - calories in equals calories out. If you don't burn the calories (regardless of where they come from), you will get fat. 
> 
> I have been studying health and nutrition for over 20 years. I eat 5 meals a day which includes a whey protein shake with fruit. I am completely fit without an ounce of body fat. I work out at least 6 days a week and have a six pack. I stay away from all "processed carbs" which is usually stuff that comes in a box. Although if someone brings in a box of Dunkin Donuts at work, I am one of the first to dive in. I know I will burn it off after work because I hit the gym daily.
> 
> What to drink? skim or soy milk, green tea from a bag (I like Tazo), coffee (black only), filtered water.
> 
> What to eat? raw fruits and all veggies (fresh and organic when you can afford and eat all colors of the rainbow), brown rice or small amount of white is even fine if you can't stand the texture of brown, oatmeal cereals (Bob's Red Mill has a very nice selection), turkey, chicken breasts, wild caught salmon, albacore tuna, whole wheat or jewish rye bread, greek yogurt, almonds, cashews, olive oil, avocados, whole grains, flax seed, red or white potatoes, etc.
> ...


Not sure what your argument is with Atkins since that sounds pretty much like Atkins after the first 2 week induction or Paleo with a few exceptions which is why you probably have to:

work out at least 6 days a week....

work out at least 6 days a week....

work out at least 6 days a week....

work out at least 6 days a week....

work out at least 6 days a week....

work out at least 6 days a week....

----------


## PatriotOne

> Stop, you're making my mouth water!!


That looks awesome except for the tofu.  Put some chicken or beef in there though and I'm all in!

----------


## Roxi

> Don't spread lies. I never have and never will do the Atkins diet but what's the point in lying about the man?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_atkins


Actually turns out we were all a little off. The details of his actual cause of death are sketchy. Turns out he did have a heart attack, he claims was a result of infection, and not the diet. Google claims his cause of death was renal failure. However the snopes article on the subject is interesting. 

http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp

----------


## NoOneButPaul

Eating all meat has got to be killer on your digestion?

----------


## PatriotOne

> Eating all meat has got to be killer on your digestion?


Who's eating nothing but meat?

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Not sure what your argument is with Atkins since that sounds pretty much like Atkins after the first 2 week induction or Paleo with a few exceptions which is why you probably have to:
> 
> work out at least 6 days a week....
> 
> work out at least 6 days a week....
> 
> work out at least 6 days a week....
> 
> work out at least 6 days a week....
> ...


At least one or two hours per day....

At least one or two hours per day....

At least one or two hours per day....

At least one or two hours per day....

At least one or two hours per day....

At least one or two hours per day....







> Actually turns out we were all a little off. The details of his actual cause of death are sketchy. Turns out he did have a heart attack, he claims was a result of infection, and not the diet. Google claims his cause of death was renal failure. However the snopes article on the subject is interesting. 
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp


Very interesting. But if we're going to look to the author of the diet / lifestyle then I think Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, and all the other primal / paleo folks are much better examples. Those people are FIT!




> Eating all meat has got to be killer on your digestion?


Actually, eating all that grain recommended by USDA, vegans, and the like was killer on my digestion. I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome for over 10 years until I found the Primal Blueprint. Three weeks of eating primal and my IBS was gone. GONE. And that's just one of the many health benefits I've experienced. I will never, ever, ever eat a SAD (standard american diet) again.




> Who's eating nothing but meat?


Not me. 

I'm hitting two farmer's markets every week while the season is upon us. So much delicious stuff!

----------


## Eagles' Wings

Dear Shane,
This may make you angry and your fiance will probably want to hurt me - have you considered postponing the wedding?  For such a young man you have several major stressors.  Even marrying the love of your life is stressful.  If you were my 24 year old son, I'd pray that you would wait.  Figure out the job and your health and your self if possible.
My best to you,
Louise.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Dear Shane,
> This may make you angry and your fiance will probably want to hurt me - have you considered postponing the wedding?  For such a young man you have several major stressors.  Even marrying the love of your life is stressful.  If you were my 24 year old son, I'd pray that you would wait.  Figure out the job and your health and your self if possible.
> My best to you,
> Louise.


Postponing isn't really an option at this point.  Her parents have poured thousands into this wedding already (non-refundable).  Besides, we have lived together for two years already and have children together, so marriage isn't really _that_ big of a step for us.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

I'm reading a book, "The Willpower Instinct" by Kelly McGonigal, and it is fantastic.  "How self-control works, why it matters and what you can do to get more of it."  

Kelly has won awards for teaching this class, at Stanford.  It is one of the most popular classes in the history of the school.   I can see why!

The library had a long wait so, I bought a copy and have enjoyed every minute of it and have implimented her suggestions.  Meditation, deep breathing, setting SMALL goals. And more.

I have a couple of food addictions I'd like better control over.  Caffeine is now halved and it is very tough - family is not happy with my disposition.  S'pose I could pray about it

----------


## ShaneEnochs

*Day 2: 294 lbs
Change: -3 lbs*

Went to the grocery store last night.  Bought up a bunch of fish and low-fat meat.  Also bought vegetable things such as asparagus, bagged salad, green beans, mushrooms, etc.  Today shouldn't be too bad.

----------


## rpwi

IMO...it's not the carbs that are the problem, but the sugars.  My body has always reacted best when I go on low sugar diets.  This means cutting down on not only deserts and especially fruit juices/pops...but a lot of hidden items as well (like corn flakes, ketchup, cheerios...crazy the the things they sneak sugar into).

You need carbs to digest meats.  You'll lose weight on Atkins because the meat won't be properly digested...but there are negative side-effects.  You'll most likely acidify your body which is very bad on your cardiovascular system.  Most meats take a long time to digest and rancidity in the intestines which can get into your blood stream.   So with a high-meat/low-fiber diet...that can be risky.  Most meats are much more polluted than plant foods as well...hormones, antibiotics, pesticides...all that stuff increases in concentration the further up the food chain you go.  Even a lot of meat products have parasites humans can pick up...and many are even resistant to high temperatures.

IMO an Atkins light (or low sugar diet) is the way to go.  I've read so many bad things about sugar (fake sugar , real sugar, corn surgar, 'healthy' sugar')...all bad news.  Dr. Mercola is a great source on this if your interested.  The problem with sugar is that so many bad things that can harm your body love sugar.  Candida yeast loves sugar, cancer cells love sugar, parasites love sugar, etc...  Plus sugar is very anabolic.  It provides a lot of energy but doesn't take a lot of energy to digest so it is easy to gain weight on it.  Something like lettuce is nice because it is catabolic...takes more energy to digest then it provides.

Anybody serious on this matter should read "Weight Loss Cure 'They' Don't Want You to Know About".  Super cheap at Amazon.  The premise is that there is a wonder hormon out there that can do wonders (I think this is a a bad idea).  But the book is filled with alternative advice which is quite good.  For example it talks about how bodies that are mineral and vitamin deficient store excess fat because they know it is so difficult to get the nutrients they need from what you eat.  So eating more nutritious meals (and perhaps taking vitos) can help a lot.  A lot of times your body is over-reacting to something else that is the problem...and if you don't address that something else you won't have a long term solution.  To that end, cleanses are a great way to restore your bodies equilibrium and to lose weight as well.

----------


## BamaAla

> *Day 2: 294 lbs
> Change: -3 lbs*
> 
> Went to the grocery store last night.  Bought up a bunch of fish and low-fat meat.  Also bought vegetable things such as asparagus, bagged salad, green beans, mushrooms, etc.  Today shouldn't be too bad.


If I can offer some advice, stay away from "low fat" meat. Fat is what is going to cull your cravings, extend your satiety, and fuel you.

----------


## Bruehound

> If I can offer some advice, stay away from "low fat" meat. Fat is what is going to cull your cravings, extend your satiety, and fuel you.


Good quality fats to use for cooking and making homemade vinaigrette are Avocado Oil and Macadamia nut oil. Drizzled over a salad with also help stave off cravings.  Make no mistake the first 10 days or so are tough but when you break through to the other side your increased energy levels will amaze you. You must be very strict to get there.

----------


## PatriotOne

> If I can offer some advice, stay away from "low fat" meat. Fat is what is going to cull your cravings, extend your satiety, and fuel you.


^^
What Bama said.

----------


## yadranko

I suggest "grow your own food" diet.  Skip the gym, just dive in and do some work in your own garden (however tiny it may be) every day, and you will see the weight loss benefits straight away.  Not to mention in due time being able to afford to eat your own organic food.  And one more thing that I would recommend: watch the video presentation "Oiling of America" on YouTube.

----------


## dannno

> I suggest "grow your own food" diet.  Skip the gym, just dive in and do some work in your own garden (however tiny it may be) every day, and you will see the weight loss benefits straight away.  Not to mention in due time being able to afford to eat your own organic food.  And one more thing that I would recommend: watch the video presentation "Oiling of America" on YouTube.


That's an excellent idea. 

Tilling soil is not easy. You want to dig really deep and get everything mixed up very well. Then you have to apply water and dry organic fertilizer, mix and rake. 

Then you gotta plant your veggies, and keep the garden weeded. The earlier and more often you weed the easier it is. 

Whatever you grow will taste better and me more healthy than pretty much anything you can buy in the store.

----------


## Demigod

I have been eating nothing but meat and vegetables for 2 weeks now t.It is positively disgusting I am giving it a week more to get used to the food and then it is over.

Even normally most of my diet is vegetables.But vegetables with bread.I can't get accustomed to the no bread part.And because I have never liked meat that much I am only left with vegetables that is killing me.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

I'm doing MUCH better with my cravings now.  They're not 1/2 that they were yesterday.  I was literally spraying I Can't Believe It's Not Butter into my mouth.  Today, I've had some impulses, but they're much easier to control.  Turkey bacon and asparagus ftw.

----------


## Demigod

> I'm doing MUCH better with my cravings now.  They're not 1/2 that they were yesterday.  I was literally spraying I Can't Believe It's Not Butter into my mouth.  Today, I've had some impulses, but they're much easier to control.  Turkey bacon and asparagus ftw.


It is not the butter I crave it is the pork and freshly baked bread in the bakery near my building.If you have any advice for those cravings just give it.

----------


## dannno

> I have been eating nothing but meat and vegetables for 2 weeks now t.It is positively disgusting I am giving it a week more to get used to the food and then it is over.
> 
> Even normally most of my diet is vegetables.But vegetables with bread.I can't get accustomed to the no bread part.And because I have never liked meat that much I am only left with vegetables that is killing me.


If you do go back to bread, try the whole grain stuff, or some rice with the veggies is always good too. I actually think mixing whole grains is the best way to go, and using them sparingly depending on how much exercise you get.

The biggest problem with grains, imo, is refined grains. Your body soaks up the carbs too quickly and you get insulin spikes, apparently. Whole grains allow your body to store that energy longer so it becomes accessible throughout the day rather than just having a big boost right after the meal.

----------


## dannno

> I'm doing MUCH better with my cravings now.  They're not 1/2 that they were yesterday.  I was literally spraying I Can't Believe It's Not Butter into my mouth.  Today, I've had some impulses, but they're much easier to control.  Turkey bacon and asparagus ftw.


Stay away from fake fats and fake sweetners, except for stevia. 

Fake fats and sweetners make your body think you are about to get a bunch of calories, so it gears up the hormones and everything for this big calorie rush.. when it doesn't happen, your body freaks out and goes into starvation mode, turning all of the calories you just ate into fat. 

As others have said, eat good fats (relatively sparingly, imo) and lots of veggies. It will help keep your body and cravings more regulated.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> I'm doing MUCH better with my cravings now.  They're not 1/2 that they were yesterday.  I was literally spraying I Can't Believe It's Not Butter into my mouth.  Today, I've had some impulses, but they're much easier to control.  Turkey bacon and asparagus ftw.


Glad to hear things are going better today. 





> It is not the butter I crave it is the pork and freshly baked bread in the bakery near my building.If you have any advice for those cravings just give it.


Eat the pork and learn to make your own paleo bread. Here's one recipe I intend to try: http://www.elanaspantry.com/paleo-bread/





> Stay away from fake fats and fake sweetners, except for stevia. 
> 
> Fake fats and sweetners make your body think you are about to get a bunch of calories, so it gears up the hormones and everything for this big calorie rush.. when it doesn't happen, your body freaks out and goes into starvation mode, turning all of the calories you just ate into fat. 
> 
> As others have said, eat good fats (relatively sparingly, imo) and lots of veggies. It will help keep your body and cravings more regulated.


Hey - I mostly agree with this! 

I'd say not to skimp on the healthy fats because they will tamp down those cravings better than anything. 

I'd also suggest skipping the fake meats. What part of a turkey does the bacon come from again? Yeah, that stuff only exists due to crazy levels of processing. If you want bacon, eat real bacon. It will be tastier and far more satisfying. I know keeping the carbs way low is hard but why compromise on the things you CAN eat? Go for the real stuff - the good stuff - and you'll be lots happier.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I'm doing MUCH better with my cravings now.  They're not 1/2 that they were yesterday.  I was literally spraying I Can't Believe It's Not Butter into my mouth.  Today, I've had some impulses, but they're much easier to control.  Turkey bacon and asparagus ftw.


Congrats on kicking carb ass yesterday.  Only real butter Shane. No margarines or fake butters (bad on every level).  Why turkey bacon?  Go for the real stuff!  Bacon for the win .  Fat is not your enemy.  mmmmmm.....asparagus.  Got a couple lbs today myself.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Congrats on kicking carb ass yesterday.  Only real butter Shane. No margarines or fake butters (bad on every level).  Why turkey bacon?  Go for the real stuff!  Bacon for the win .  Fat is not your enemy.  mmmmmm.....asparagus.  Got a couple lbs today myself.


I just prefer the taste of turkey bacon.

So I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is bad for me?

----------


## Demigod

> Glad to hear things are going better today. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eat the pork and learn to make your own paleo bread. Here's one recipe I intend to try: http://www.elanaspantry.com/paleo-bread/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I just prefer the taste of turkey bacon.
> 
> So I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is bad for me?


For me it goes something like this:

Protein rich food : I gain weight on, IF and only IF I exercise enough. This translates into muscles though. 
Carbs : I don't really gain much weight on, but I don't eat a whole lot and don't like sweet stuff. I do like french fries.
Fat: I don't gain weight on fat at all, I eat a lot of mayonnaise, butter, bacon, cheese (virtually no milk)... 

Anyways, I'm having kind of the opposite problem a lot of people are dealing with.. I can't really gain weight. 
I'm just over 6ft and a little under 140lbs... I'm trying to gain weight for a couple of years now, and nothing really worked. 

Right now I'm doing my own interpretation of the primal blueprint, and I have to say I'm gaining weight slightly, about a pound a month... I guess this has more to do with the exercise that I'm doing then the diet itself. But I feel more energized nonetheless and there's nothing better then fatty foods, they just taste much better!

PS: good luck !!

----------


## PatriotOne

> I just prefer the taste of turkey bacon.
> 
> So I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is bad for me?


gottcha on the turkey bacon.

Yes it is bad.  Atkins says only real butter in his book (as does Mark Sisson...Primal) but I can't remember if he goes into the science.  You may want to look at the book for more info on it.  Stay far away as possible from anything that is not natural and is processed.  Many of those chemicals (such as MSG and aspertame, etc.) triggers false hunger cravings like carbs.  Re-read your Atkins book   Butter is not your enemy.

Did you know I Can't Believe it's Not Butter has *EDTA* in it?

The United States ingredients for the current Original Spread variety are:[8]

Vegetable Oil Blend (Liquid Soybean Oil, Non-Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Liquid Canola Oil)
 Water
 Natural Sweet Cream Buttermilk
 Salt
 Natural Soy Lecithin
 Vegetable Mono and Diglycerides
 (Potassium Sorbate, Calcium Disodium EDTA) Used to Protect Quality
 Citric Acid
 Natural and Artificial Flavors
 Vitamin A (Palmitate)
 Beta Carotene (For Color)

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> gottcha on the turkey bacon.
> 
> Yes it is bad.  Atkins says only real butter in his book (as does Mark Sisson...Primal) but I can't remember if he goes into the science.  You may want to look at the book for more info on it.  Stay far away as possible from anything that is not natural and is processed.  Many of those chemicals (such as MSG and aspertame, etc.) triggers false hunger cravings like carbs.  Re-read your Atkins book   Butter is not your enemy.
> 
> Did you know I Can't Believe it's Not Butter has *EDTA* in it?
> 
> The United States ingredients for the current Original Spread variety are:[8]
> 
> Vegetable Oil Blend (Liquid Soybean Oil, Non-Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Liquid Canola Oil)
> ...


I thought EDTA was good for you?  Doesn't it bind to all the bad crap in your body so it can't be absorbed?

----------


## PatriotOne

> I thought EDTA was good for you?  Doesn't it bind to all the bad crap in your body so it can't be absorbed?


Oh wait.  For some wierd reason I was thinking of formaldehyde when I saw EDTA.  Something to do with the OJ Simpson trial....lol.

Anyways....here's some info on Mark Sisson's website on oils....

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healt...#axzz1xdof8ppG

----------


## anaconda

> I've never tried primal/paleo.  I personally feel that even though it's restrictive, Atkins allows me to eat more of the things that I actually like to eat, such as bacon, cheese, sausage, etc.


I recently learned about the importance of the ratio of Omega 3 polyunsaturated fatty acids to Omega 6's in out diets. If money is not an issue, you might want to look into consuming 100% grass fed, pastured meats, fowl, and eggs. Either way, I would take good quality fish oil supplements. Or maybe even if the money is an issue.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

I'm finding that I am constantly thirsty, regardless of how much water I drink.

----------


## Kluge

> I'm finding that I am constantly thirsty, regardless of how much water I drink.


That is normal. Keep a bottle of water next to the bed at night.

----------


## twisted

water can make dehydration problems worse, at times. You need gatorade, or some other source of salt and other electrolytes.

----------


## Kluge

> water can make dehydration problems worse, at times. You need gatorade, or some other source of salt and other electrolytes.


Gatorade is just about the absolute worst thing you could possibly drink while doing the induction phase of Atkins.

----------


## twisted

if you'd actually READ Atkin's books, you'd know about and be using the supplements that he recommends to reduce the cravings for carbs.

----------


## Kluge

> if you'd actually READ Atkin's books, you'd know about and be using the supplements that he recommends to reduce the cravings for carbs.


You just recommended he drink Gatorade, and you're scolding me for not being well-read on induction?

----------


## twisted

I DID say some other source of electrolytes. Why is it so bad, the sugar? If the guy is having problems drinking enough, he's going to have worse things to worry about than the little bit of sugar in gatorade.

----------


## twisted

you ARE allowed 20 grams of carbs per day, ya know.

----------


## Kluge

> I DID say some other source of electrolytes. Why is it so bad, the sugar? If the guy is having problems drinking enough, he's going to have worse things to worry about than the little bit of sugar in gatorade.





> you ARE allowed 20 grams of carbs per day, ya know.


Have you ever read the label on a bottle of Gatorade? I don't think you have.



Not to mention that you're supposed to restrict refined sugars like the ones you find in Gatorade.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> water can make dehydration problems worse, at times. You need gatorade, or some other source of salt and other electrolytes.


I follow the diet of Bee Wilder  - www.healingnaturallybybee.com

She suggests this for electrolytes:  1/4 tsp of sea salt in 6-oz of water/x6 -  taken throughout the day - 3 of them with meals for digestive aid.   Sources of pure sea salt are on her website.  I order from Premier Research.

Ideally a person would be cooking from scratch and would not be getting extra salt (table salt)elsewhere.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> I DID say some other source of electrolytes. Why is it so bad, the sugar? If the guy is having problems drinking enough, he's going to have worse things to worry about than the little bit of sugar in gatorade.


I've seen electrolyte drinks at health food stores.  They are very expensive but don't have the nasty ingredients in Gatorade.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

*Day 3: 292 lbs
Change: -5 lbs*

----------


## PatriotOne

> *Day 3: 292 lbs
> Change: -5 lbs*


Looks like you are on your way to a 15+ lb weight loss in 2 weeks.  That's fabulous.

Oh and an FYI, if you start getting muscle cramps out of the blue during the induction phase, it means you are lacking potassium.  A decent multi-vitamin with potassium clears this up in a day.  It's pretty common during induction, so thought I would give you a heads up.  If your only doing induction for a couple weeks then it might not be a problem.  I've been doing induction for about 7 weeks now so started supplementing as soon as I had my first charlie horse a few weeks back.

----------


## Original_Intent

refined sugar and refined wheat flour are the devil.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> *Day 3: 292 lbs
> Change: -5 lbs*


Keep it up - you're doing great!





> refined sugar and refined wheat flour are the devil.



http://www.fathead-movie.com/FatHeadDVD.html

----------


## The Magic Hoof

I lost 135lbs on Atkins

----------


## Demigod

> I lost 135lbs on Atkins


That is like 30 kg.How much did you weigh before ?

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> I lost 135lbs on Atkins


Wow!  That's awesome!

All I'm looking for is to get under 200.  I haven't been under 200 since the 9th grade.

----------


## Demigod

> Wow!  That's awesome!
> 
> All I'm looking for is to get under 200.  I haven't been under 200 since the 9th grade.


How tall are you ?

Because to be 100 kg in the 9th grade is a lot.

I am aiming at lowering to 86-88kg with 192 cm height.Although what I really want is self discipline in eating I used to eat all day long.Not large meals bite by bite but all day long I had to have something in my mouth to chew.Now I only eat 2 meals 6 hours apart.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

By the way, I don't agree with some of the things posted in this thread.

I've never had a problem with aspartame affecting my weight loss. In fact, it helps me a lot as I get at least something sweet (diet drinks). I'm not saying aspartame is GOOD, but Diet Dr. Pepper sure is convenient. I've never believed in this 'starvation mode' thing, at least the way some put it. I believe in starvation mode if you're doing just that - literally starving, but that's like a deserted island case.

I found that instead of doing this thing where you eat 5-6 small meals a day that I eat less when I eat only 2 large meals a day. Don't believe in the 'meal timing' thing either. Eat whenever you want, even if it's 10 minutes before bed. It hasn't affected my weight loss any, only made me sleep better!

----------


## The Magic Hoof

Long story short guys, I was 165 lbs when I was 18 (6'0 at the time), and I'm still 6'0.... and back at 165lbs again years later. The doctors completely overprescribed anxiety medication (which was 100% unnecessary by the way) and I ballooned from 165 to 295lbs. I stopped taking the medication cold turkey because it screwed me up so bad. I lost 100lbs in 6 months from the day I stopped taking it, then the other 30 lbs came off over time.

I can't credit Atkins solely because my body was just like WTF!?, but Atkins sure did speed the process up.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I've never had a problem with aspartame affecting my weight loss. In fact, it helps me a lot as I get at least something sweet (diet drinks).


Your right.  I shot from the hip there.  I have this running list of 100 poisons in my head to avoid in the food supply that I have researched...but I don't always remember the why of it.  I got lazy.  I used aspartame sweeteners alot in my coffee and drank diet pepsi liberally the first time I did Atkins.  It didn't stop any weight loss as far as I could tell since I was so successful.  Now I cringe at the thought of using so much aspartame for other reasons and considered it a near death experience .  I use stevia now.

*Aspartame is, by Far, the Most Dangerous Substance on the Market that is Added To Foods* 


November 06 2011 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...d-to-food.aspx

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> How tall are you ?
> 
> Because to be 100 kg in the 9th grade is a lot.
> 
> I am aiming at lowering to 86-88kg with 192 cm height.Although what I really want is self discipline in eating I used to eat all day long.Not large meals bite by bite but all day long I had to have something in my mouth to chew.Now I only eat 2 meals 6 hours apart.


5'7

And yeah, it was a lot.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

*Day 4: 292 lbs
Change: -5 lbs*

Well, I actually lost 0.6 lbs from yesterday, but I haven't been putting the decimals.

So yeah, still losing weight.  I was pretty proud of myself yesterday for walking a mile with my fiance and my little boy.  Haven't done that in a while.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

You're doing great, Shane. Keep it up!

----------


## cucucachu0000

glad to hear it, i just started the primal diet i chose it because it seemed easier than atkins. its great i recomend it, im 6 foot and i started off at around 225 and just yesterday im down to 208 in 4 weeks, i have a 2 or 3 beers or glasses of wine on saturdays when im out, i eat a couple pieces of dark chocolate or some berries with whipped cream on top for desert a couple times a week, and i eat every time i get hungry its great.

----------


## BamaAla

> glad to hear it, i just started the primal diet i chose it because it seemed easier than atkins. its great i recomend it, im 6 foot and i started off at around 225 and just yesterday im down to 208 in 4 weeks, i have a 2 or 3 beers or glasses of wine on saturdays when im out, i eat a couple pieces of dark chocolate or some berries with whipped cream on top for desert a couple times a week, and i eat every time i get hungry its great.


Awesome! I'm the same height and started at around ne same weight (I was 230.) I'm down 12% body fat and at 173 lbs. keep it up my Grok brother!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Mine could be better. I need to do strength training pretty badly, but every time I try to do anything, I have a giggling baby climbing on me--I lift her a lot, but it's just not the same. Doing most of the weight loss first, then starting to work out was my plan though...so things are going according to plan.
> 
> I don't like the idea of juicing because of all the fiber that's removed, but I do like the idea of getting bigger amounts of certain nutrients. Plus, I don't have a juicer, nor do I have the space. How's the juicing working out for you? What do you have for dinner?


Get a pullup bar and do lots of pushups (and learn all the variations of pushups you can).  You can get a really good workout with little to no equipment.

----------


## trey4sports

> Mine could be better. I need to do strength training pretty badly, but every time I try to do anything, I have a giggling baby climbing on me--I lift her a lot, but it's just not the same. Doing most of the weight loss first, then starting to work out was my plan though...so things are going according to plan.
> 
> I don't like the idea of juicing because of all the fiber that's removed, but I do like the idea of getting bigger amounts of certain nutrients. Plus, I don't have a juicer, nor do I have the space. How's the juicing working out for you? What do you have for dinner?



i use the lexen healthy juicer. which is portable and small and can be had for $30. 



(if you ever do get into juicing make sure you get a masticating juicer because centrifigul juicers create a lot of heat and kill enzymes and such.)

That said, it is VERY difficult to _physically_ EAT the amount of greens that it takes to get 8 oz of juice. I go through a lot of food on a daily basis for juicing. 6 asparagus spears, handful of green beans, an orange and a 1/2 of a head (not sure what measurement kale comes in) of kale on an average day. If you're really worried about wasting the fiber simply throw put the remaining fiber that has been juiced in the fridge and eat it later. When i juice apples i do that because the remaining pulpy fiber is delicious.

----------


## Revolution9

> Stop, you're making my mouth water!!


Look! Cardboard cubes with fru fru. 

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> I just prefer the taste of turkey bacon.
> 
> So I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is bad for me?


Yes. When you get clean and try it it will give a weird and nasty quasi-heartburn just below the lungs.

Rev9

----------


## RickyJ

I always stay on the eat what you like diet and it works pretty good for me. I even drink coke, way too much of it, and I am still healthy, running a 10K July 4th.

----------


## Revolution9

> I thought EDTA was good for you?  Doesn't it bind to all the bad crap in your body so it can't be absorbed?


Seed oils are originally paint binders. It is what Ford used on his Model T's. When petroleum products began replacing seed oils in the painting industry they had to find a way to sell them. One of the first was Crisco which they touted as a substitute for good fats like lard and tallow. Damned if heart attacks and cancers started becoming prevalent.. They were a medical anomaly prior to 1879. The first fat guy in England, in the early 1800''s I think was a medical anomaly. I think he was lighter than you. He made his money as a side show curiosity and retired somewhat of an aristocrat. Rapeseed oil, Canola oil has to be doused in a bath of heavily caustic sodium hydroxide to kill the rancid odor which starts almost immediately after pressing. This oil, in it's natural form is an insecticide and part of the plants defense against insects and animals.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## ShaneEnochs

*Day 5: 291 lbs
Change: -6 lbs*

----------


## anaconda

> I have only juiced intermittently for a few months.  I think it works well, but I do wonder how many nutrients are lost in the blending process.
> 
> Once your palate becomes accustomed to the taste it isn't bad, very filling and easy to lose weight.
> 
> I don't have any real dinner plans, generally fish/steak/pizza etc which I'm sure is not so helpful.


Juicing seems to have worked for these guys...

http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/

----------


## PatriotOne

> *Day 5: 291 lbs
> Change: -6 lbs*


Where's our update for yesterday and today Shane?  How's it going?  Is that carb monkey still on your back or under control?

----------


## ShaneEnochs

Had a weak day, and I spent two days paying for it.  But!

*Day 8: 290 lbs
Change: -7 lbs*

On day 6, I gained 0.3 lbs, and then on day 7, I gained a full pound.  But I finally took it back off 

The only problem I'm having at this point is I've run out of my monthly budget for food.  I still have food, but it's stuff I bought at the BEGINNING of the month that I can't eat now.  Obviously if it comes down to me eating or not eating, I'll eat, but I'll try to eat the healthiest stuff first.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Had a weak day, and I spent two days paying for it.  But!
> 
> *Day 8: 290 lbs
> Change: -7 lbs*
> 
> On day 6, I gained 0.3 lbs, and then on day 7, I gained a full pound.  But I finally took it back off 
> 
> The only problem I'm having at this point is I've run out of my monthly budget for food.  I still have food, but it's stuff I bought at the BEGINNING of the month that I can't eat now.  Obviously if it comes down to me eating or not eating, I'll eat, but I'll try to eat the healthiest stuff first.


I was wondering if you fell off the wagon.  It was Day 6 or 7 when it was the hardest for me to not eat carbs also.  Maybe that's the day your body realizes you didn't just forget to feed it carbs but are trying to evict them altogether.....they revolt!

It was a real mental/physical battle on day 6, 7, 8 and then a bit less so on day 9 and 10 and then it just stopped totally for me after that.  It was day 11 when my appetite and cravings just dropped like a stone and I noticed I stopped thinking about carbs and food in general totally and had to make a concious decision to eat instead of being driven by hunger/cravings.  I am on Day 67 now and still have to make a conscious decision to eat at least two times a day but I am sure it's because I haven't dared to eat any carbs as it just starts the cycle all over again for me.

This time I was prepared for the battle because I knew it was going to be really hard around day 5/6/7.  I had had a couple dry runs in the months preceeding that didn't go so well so I knew when to strap in for the ride.

Prep was key to me.  I threw out ALL carbs in my house (except a bag of flour) so even if it got really hard, I didn't have anything handy to cheat with .  And I had done all that prep work as I described above in a post.

Congrats on the 7lbs!

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> I was wondering if you fell off the wagon.  It was Day 6 or 7 when it was the hardest for me to not eat carbs also.  Maybe that's the day your body realizes you didn't just forget to feed it carbs but are trying to evict them altogether.....they revolt!
> 
> It was a real mental/physical battle on day 6, 7, 8 and then a bit less so on day 9 and 10 and then it just stopped totally for me after that.  It was day 11 when my appetite and cravings just dropped like a stone and I noticed I stopped thinking about carbs and food in general totally and had to make a concious decision to eat instead of being driven by hunger/cravings.  I am on Day 67 now and still have to make a conscious decision to eat at least two times a day but I am sure it's because I haven't dared to eat any carbs as it just starts the cycle all over again for me.
> 
> This time I was prepared for the battle because I knew it was going to be really hard around day 5/6/7.  I had had a couple dry runs in the months preceeding that didn't go so well so I knew when to strap in for the ride.
> 
> Prep was key to me.  I threw out ALL carbs in my house (except a bag of flour) so even if it got really hard, I didn't have anything handy to cheat with .  And I had done all that prep work as I described above in a post.
> 
> Congrats on the 7lbs!


My fiance stopped feeling hungry about three days in.  She's also lost more weight than I have (even though she weighs a lot less than I do), but I would contribute that mainly to her having a job and me not.

On the plus side, my wedding band now fits again, which is one of the main reasons I wanted to lose weight.  My wedding is in like two weeks, so it's pretty important that my ring fits, haha.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Any weightloss program will not produce linear results- you will not lose the same amount every day or even week. And your body will adjust to what it is taking in. I haven't gone back in the thread, but including exercising is also very important. Whatever changes you make should become permanant in your lifestyle to keep the gains. Some do diet programs and eventually go back to eating like they did before- and the weight comes back. Keep up the good work!

----------


## PatriotOne

> On the plus side, my wedding band now fits again, which is one of the main reasons I wanted to lose weight.  My wedding is in like two weeks, so it's pretty important that my ring fits, haha.


Would have been pretty embarassing if ya had to wear it like a bull ring through your nose.  Though some might say that's more symbolic of getting married anyways .

----------


## Kluge

I still have carb pangs every now and then--but I believe that's due to not being able to cook properly yet. That should be remedied soon!

I had three cheats in the last couple months: 1. a whole mess o' fruit 2. a whole mess o' fruit 3. low sugar ice cream on a sugar cone.

It's been so freaking hot that ice cream has actually been the biggest temptation. I really wanted another one today.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> I still have carb pangs every now and then--but I believe that's due to not being able to cook properly yet. That should be remedied soon!
> 
> I had three cheats in the last couple months: 1. a whole mess o' fruit 2. a whole mess o' fruit 3. low sugar ice cream on a sugar cone.
> 
> It's been so freaking hot that ice cream has actually been the biggest temptation. I really wanted another one today.


My cheat was so much worse.  I filled up on chinese food.

----------


## Kluge

> My cheat was so much worse.  I filled up on chinese food.


Ohhhh...ouch. The rice too? Egg roll?

I still make stir-fry: chicken or cheap steak sliced thin marinated in ginger/garlic, soy sauce, broccoli, celery (no bok choy around here), mushrooms and some chicken or beef broth that's very reduced. No rice, obviously. 

But you will recover. Just a hiccup.

----------


## Kluge

When I allow myself sometime in the future, I plan on going to a real Asian restaurant and I'll get some real stir-fry (still won't eat rice), but I will get a banh trang spring roll. I adore those things.

I like this diet because it gives me an excuse not to eat my mother-in-law's cooking or cooked carrots. I hate cooked carrots, even in stir-fry.

----------


## andrew1229649

> Had a weak day, and I spent two days paying for it.  But!
> 
> *Day 8: 290 lbs
> Change: -7 lbs*
> 
> On day 6, I gained 0.3 lbs, and then on day 7, I gained a full pound.  But I finally took it back off


Stick to the plan, it will pay off!
I started a very very calorie limited diet on May 31st. I started out at *298.4 lbs*.
It is now the end of  *day 20* and I am at *273.2*
The key to my success has be water, water, and more water. If I get hungry out side of meal time...I'll drink water, it really helps the cravings.

Once the lbs start falling, boy do they start literally falling off lol

Best of luck to you. I'll try to keep some updates on my future measurements and look forward to hearing yours.

----------


## farreri

> Juicing seems to have worked for these guys...
> 
> http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/


Thanks for the link!  Watched it the other day.  Fascinating and inspiring, especially the 400+ lb truck driver's story during the 2nd half of the documentary.

Made me want to dust off my juicer again!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> When I allow myself sometime in the future, I plan on going to a real Asian restaurant and I'll get some real stir-fry (still won't eat rice), but I will get a banh trang spring roll. I adore those things.
> 
> I like this diet because it gives me an excuse not to eat my mother-in-law's cooking or cooked carrots. *I hate cooked carrots, even in stir-fry*.


You are evil.   I thought you like Asian/Indo-Chinese stuff.  There's a lot of carrots (and bamboo,etc) in those sort of dishes.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Juicing seems to have worked for these guys...
> 
> http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/


I wouldn't go overboard with teh juices.  You don't get all the fiber benefit you would from the whole fruits/veggies. (which raises the net carbs)

----------


## Bruno

> *Day 4: 292 lbs
> Change: -5 lbs*
> 
> Well, I actually lost 0.6 lbs from yesterday, but I haven't been putting the decimals.
> 
> So yeah, still losing weight.  I was pretty proud of myself yesterday for walking a mile with my fiance and my little boy.  Haven't done that in a while.


That is so good to hear! Keep walking! A friend was overweight in grade school. He showed up in 7th grade and said hi to me and I literally didn't recognize him and he had to tell me who he was.  "I walked a lot this summer",  he said.  "A lot!"

----------


## Kluge

> You are evil.   I thought you like Asian/Indo-Chinese stuff.  There's a lot of carrots (and bamboo,etc) in those sort of dishes.


I love it, I just don't like cooked carrots. I've always eaten around those bastards or picked them out. Even in the stews my mom made, I had to mush them up with the potato in order to make them edible. I don't like canned bamboo either, and that's all I've been able to come across. Tastes like a damn can.

Raw carrots are okay though.

----------


## farreri

> I wouldn't go overboard with teh juices.  You don't get all the fiber benefit you would from the whole fruits/veggies. (which raises the net carbs)


When I juice, I put about half the pulp back in.  Makes the consistence more like a smoothie!  I also use red cabbage as my base instead of the traditional high-sugar vegetables; carrots and beets.

----------


## jj-

> Raw carrots are okay though.


(some claim) raw carrots are good for your gut. They get rid of bad bacteria and it's best to eat them by themselves (not with a meal). You can absorb more of the beta carotene if a carrot is cooked, and too much can be bad.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

*Day 9: 290 lbs
Change: -7 lbs*

I actually lost .6 lbs, but like before, I haven't been putting the decimals.  Maybe I should start =P

----------


## Kluge

> *Day 9: 290 lbs
> Change: -7 lbs*
> 
> I actually lost .6 lbs, but like before, I haven't been putting the decimals.  Maybe I should start =P


Great! I just lost another 4lbs.

----------


## AcousticFoodie

I didn't follow Atkins Per se, but I did start eating Low Carb and lost 43lbs.

----------


## trey4sports

> I wouldn't go overboard with teh juices.  You don't get all the fiber benefit you would from the whole fruits/veggies. (which raises the net carbs)



word, but if you're jucin' collard greens, spinach, and kale you're still not going to be getting hardly any net carbs and since its liquid form you'll be able to ingest much more than you could eat and your body will absorb it better as well.

----------


## Kluge

You know what sucks? Someone toasting a bagel and having to smell it's deliciousness.

Had a crap day today, but not total crap.

----------


## trey4sports

> You know what sucks? Someone toasting a bagel and having to smell it's deliciousness.
> 
> Had a crap day today, but not total crap.



did you stick with your diet?

----------


## Kluge

> did you stick with your diet?


Not totally. I bought a whole mess o' chicken and made myself a salad with chicken on mixed greens/tomatoes, however--husband and kid really, really wanted chicken fingers. I ate one. I also made fries. I ate one of those as well. And since I effed up--I ate a triangle of a Toblerone bar. Had several slices of a fresh peach too. (I'm still trying to stick to induction/primal-type diet until I lose 8 more pounds and get my insulin response in line.)

Not horrific, but certainly not perfect. I waited too long to start cooking and was really hungry/weak.

----------


## trey4sports

> Not totally. I bought a whole mess o' chicken and made myself a salad with chicken on mixed greens/tomatoes, however--husband and kid really, really wanted chicken fingers. I ate one. I also made fries. I ate one of those as well. And since I effed up--I ate a triangle of a Toblerone bar. Had several slices of a fresh peach too. (I'm still trying to stick to induction/primal-type diet until I lose 8 more pounds and get my insulin response in line.)
> 
> Not horrific, but certainly not perfect. I waited too long to start cooking and was really hungry/weak.



well if that was the worst you could do then your in pretty good shape.

Do you have a set number of carbs your trying to stay under? 50, 25? I hear Atkins induction starts you out at something like 25. How long have you stayed under your target number of carbs?

When i first got into primal living i kind of meshed atkins induction along with it and stayed under 50 carbs or so. The first 2 or 3 days were absolute hell, but after a week or so my mood swings were gone and i realized that after 22 years of thinking i was hungry for french toast and syrup every 4 hours that it was not hunger, but rather massive blood sugar peaks, and dips. 

Anyway, best of luck to you. Your cheat day really wasn't that bad

----------


## Kluge

> well if that was the worst you could do then your in pretty good shape.
> 
> Do you have a set number of carbs your trying to stay under? 50, 25? I hear Atkins induction starts you out at something like 25. How long have you stayed under your target number of carbs?
> 
> When i first got into primal living i kind of meshed atkins induction along with it and stayed under 50 carbs or so. The first 2 or 3 days were absolute hell, but after a week or so my mood swings were gone and i realized that after 22 years of thinking i was hungry for french toast and syrup every 4 hours that it was not hunger, but rather massive blood sugar peaks, and dips. 
> 
> Anyway, best of luck to you. Your cheat day really wasn't that bad


I've been under 20 carbs/day for the last 2+ months. I did some damage, and I needed a kick in the pants, so to speak.

Not a terrible cheat day, but my system is still hyper-sensitive to carbs.

----------


## Revolution9

I tested my gluten allergy the other day to be sure as I do love bread. Nope. I am still dealing with a swollen belly and quarter hiccups and low grade heartburn. A well. I do make cookies with almond butter, two eggs, baking soda,  salt and honey..They rock. .I am gonna try it with bananas and make almond butter banana bread.  Unlike most in this thread I cannot gain weight no matter what. 

Rev9

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

Good luck, OP. I blew up my ankle last summer, and I still can't run. Sucks, because I was playing basketball 3-5 times a week. I still lift, and my strength has gone way up since the injury, but I've gone from 6'4" 220~240 (220 when I'm in basketball shape, 240 when I'm focusing on lifting) to 270. Blech. Gonna go primal or something close to it to drop the weight. Don't drink soda or eat sugar, but I love breads and pastas. It's whole grain or sprouted grain stuff, but it's obviously still carbs.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Good luck, OP. I blew up my ankle last summer, and I still can't run. Sucks, because I was playing basketball 3-5 times a week. I still lift, and my strength has gone way up since the injury, but I've gone from 6'4" 220~240 (220 when I'm in basketball shape, 240 when I'm focusing on lifting) to 270. Blech. Gonna go primal or something close to it to drop the weight. Don't drink soda or eat sugar, but I love breads and pastas. It's whole grain or sprouted grain stuff, but it's obviously still carbs.


I can't recommend the Primal Blueprint highly enough. You will probably especially like the fitness part of the "package" and will find it very easy to do while getting great results.

I've been on PB for 9 weeks now and have lost 20 pounds so far with very little effort. I've also had many improvements in my overall health.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> I tested my gluten allergy the other day to be sure as I do love bread. Nope. I am still dealing with a swollen belly and quarter hiccups and low grade heartburn. A well. I do make cookies with almond butter, two eggs, baking soda,  salt and honey..They rock. .I am gonna try it with bananas and make almond butter banana bread.  Unlike most in this thread I cannot gain weight no matter what. 
> 
> Rev9


Discovering I also have a gluten allergy has made it very easy for me to stick to my primal diet. I am definitely going to try baking with almond flour after I lose a few more pounds.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> I can't recommend the Primal Blueprint highly enough. You will probably especially like the fitness part of the "package" and will find it very easy to do while getting great results.
> 
> I've been on PB for 9 weeks now and have lost 20 pounds so far with very little effort. I've also had many improvements in my overall health.


Appreciate the advice!

Can't really do anything involving more than a walk, though, and I'm limited to machines for lifting with my legs. Going to be that way until I get an MRI and find out how extensive the damage is in the ankle and get whatever is wrong with it fixed.

----------


## VIDEODROME

Wow what a thread.  I just skimmed through here to see how Shane was doing on Atkins and of course the side debates.  I wish Shane good luck on the weight loss.  

I've been losing weight since I quit truck driving.  Probably one of the most unhealthy jobs there is.  I've also cut carbs and have very minimal starch.  Maybe a small side of rice but no more baked potatoes.  During lent I had a fish sandwich with potato.  The bread and potato together made me feel horribly bloated and I said no more potatoes. 

In general aiming to have meats and eggs but also good veggies and leafy greens.  Also found a local gym running a Summer 3 month special so i signed up.  Will see what happens. 


As for drinks I dropped the soda and mostly have coffee, tea, or ice water.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Appreciate the advice!
> 
> Can't really do anything involving more than a walk, though, and I'm limited to machines for lifting with my legs. Going to be that way until I get an MRI and find out how extensive the damage is in the ankle and get whatever is wrong with it fixed.


I have good news for you - the majority of PB fitness is "move frequently at a slow pace", I.e. walking, hiking, slow bike riding.

----------


## Revolution9

> Discovering I also have a gluten allergy has made it very easy for me to stick to my primal diet. I am definitely going to try baking with almond flour after I lose a few more pounds.


 T

The flour is too expensive and they remove the oils/ The oils help the baking process so just use ground almond butter.

Rev9

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## andrew1229649

*Day 23: 270
Change: -28.4*

I am feeling so much better....hoping that the lbs continue falling at this same rate.

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## BlackTerrel

Good luck man.  Kick ass.

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## heavenlyboy34

Congrats!

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## andrew1229649

*Day 26: 266.2
Change: -32.2*

At this rate I am going to be at my goal in about a month and a half from now!!

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## schiffheadbaby

> *Day 26: 266.2
> Change: -32.2*
> 
> At this rate I am going to be at my goal in about a month and a half from now!!


What is your height again?  Surprised you are still losing 1 pound a day.  Very impressive.  

Do you ever cheat on your diet?

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## andrew1229649

*Day 27: 265.0
Change: -33.4*
I am 6'1". Yes, impressed myself. Folks ask me how I'm doing it but I really don't want to share because they will rake me out and tell me it's unhealthy. But so is 300 lbs lol. Here it goes, the only thing I count is calories. I know just about the calorie content of everything now lol. My calorie intake is set at 600 per day. I know, I know it's not good....but it's working. Also, I'm consuming about  3/4 of a gallon of water a day. I do not plan on continuing this diet for the rest of my life or for too much longer. Once I get close to my goal, I'm going to gradually work my way back to the calories needed to maintain my weight.

NO!, I never cheat. There has been no desire to. Most of the time you cheat early on or if you aren't having results. I have made it past that stage. I do treat myself to a small portion of no fat frozen vanilla yogurt. I taste just like ice cream  I've only done that twice in almost 30 days. If you consider that cheating well.... lol 

One more thing...I do try and keep everything balanced. You can't consume 600 calories worth of bread and starches everyday. A few rules I have added to the 600 calories a day is... consume at least 200 calories of vegetables, limit the starches as much as possible, and absolutely nothing but water(unless it's milk for the cereal, milk for scrambled eggs, or an occasional glass of Orange juice).

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## ShowMeLiberty

> *Day 27: 265.0
> Change: -33.4*
> I am 6'1". Yes, impressed myself. Folks ask me how I'm doing it but I really don't want to share because they will rake me out and tell me it's unhealthy. But so is 300 lbs lol. Here it goes, the only thing I count is calories. I know just about the calorie content of everything now lol. My calorie intake is set at 600 per day. I know, I know it's not good....but it's working. Also, I'm consuming about  3/4 of a gallon of water a day. I do not plan on continuing this diet for the rest of my life or for too much longer. Once I get close to my goal, I'm going to gradually work my way back to the calories needed to maintain my weight.
> 
> NO!, I never cheat. There has been no desire to. Most of the time you cheat early on or if you aren't having results. I have made it past that stage. I do treat myself to a small portion of no fat frozen vanilla yogurt. I taste just like ice cream  I've only done that twice in almost 30 days. If you consider that cheating well.... lol 
> 
> One more thing...I do try and keep everything balanced. You can't consume 600 calories worth of bread and starches everyday. A few rules I have added to the 600 calories a day is... consume at least 200 calories of vegetables, limit the starches as much as possible, and absolutely nothing but water(unless it's milk for the cereal, milk for scrambled eggs, or an occasional glass of Orange juice).


I'm glad that's working for you and you're being careful about such a low calorie diet. 

May I strongly suggest that you take a look at Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint or Robb Wolf's Paleo Solution? If you want to keep the weight off for good once you reach your goal, without ever having to go hungry, a primal / paleo diet is really the way to go. Using myself as an example, I eat anywhere from 1000 - 2100 calories a day on the Primal Blueprint diet and I've lost just over 20 pounds in 9 weeks. 

Not as dramatic as your weight loss but I have complete confidence that I'll be able (and happy!) to eat this way for the rest of my life and I'll easily be able to maintain a healthy weight - whatever that turns out to be for me.

Take a look at those books and their web sites. It can't hurt just to get more information, right?

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## andrew1229649

Dude, Link me up!....I am going to go through another diet change in about 30-45 days....I need a place to run to and the calorie range sounds about right. Once I hit the mark I will consult a nutritionist to see exactly what my calorie range should be. Everyone says 10x your weight to maintain, I may plug that into the Primal/ Paleo diet.

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## BamaAla

You will absolutely, positively lose lean body mass if you continue (you already have, but you can stop that now.) 

www.marksdailyapple.com

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## ShowMeLiberty

> Dude, Link me up!....I am going to go through another diet change in about 30-45 days....I need a place to run to and the calorie range sounds about right. Once I hit the mark I will consult a nutritionist to see exactly what my calorie range should be. Everyone says 10x your weight to maintain, I may plug that into the Primal/ Paleo diet.


I prefer the Primal Blueprint because it's a little more laid back and encourages customizing to your specific needs. The web site is http://www.MarksDailyApple.com and the book can be bought from that site or from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Bluepri...imal+blueprint).

Robb Wolf's site is http://robbwolf.com/ and his book is available through Amazon also (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/098...SIN=0982565844).

Be warned - these are both low carb, high fat diets that will have many nutritionists shrieking in horror because they turn the government's food pyramid on its head. But I promise you - it works and it is far, far healthier for you than what the government has been telling us for decades. Promise!

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

Also - let's save the discussion of calories until after you're familiar with primal / paleo eating. You'll see that we primal folk hardly give calories a thought as long as we're achieving our macro nutrient goals. Which is not to say go crazy and eat 5000 calories a day, but it's so much easier to eat in a good calorie range without really even thinking about it when you're eating primal.

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## andrew1229649

> You will absolutely, positively lose lean body mass if you continue (you already have, but you can stop that now.) 
> 
> www.marksdailyapple.com


I know under normal circumstances that is true but I have a very active lifestyle. I work in a furniture warehouse twice a week and I'm constantly using all my muscles( just about lol) I know they say if you don't use it, you lose it....but I am still using them and I'm not noticing a drop in strength. Actually my muscles feel more firm( probably b/c there is less fat to cushion them). 

If you are working the muscles on a low calorie diet, how could your body start to burn them over the fat?

----------


## PatriotOne

> Also - let's save the discussion of calories until after you're familiar with primal / paleo eating. You'll see that we primal folk hardly give calories a thought as long as we're achieving our macro nutrient goals. Which is not to say go crazy and eat 5000 calories a day, but it's so much easier to eat in a good calorie range without really even thinking about it when you're eating primal.


I was talking to my sister about primal the other day.  Was telling her about the science of it all.  Did.not.compute.  I finally asked her if she had ever seen a fat tiger or lion"?  And then "what do they feed animals to fatten them up before they slaughter them"?  Changed her whole pardigm...lol.

----------


## Kluge

> I was talking to my sister about primal the other day.  Was telling her about the science of it all.  Did.not.compute.  I finally asked her if she had ever seen a fat tiger or lion"?  And then "what do they feed animals to fatten them up before they slaughter them"?  Changed her whole pardigm...lol.


Another good example is a sumo wrestler. They stuff themselves silly with rice and beer to get big--most Japanese people are virtually incapable of getting fat.

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## ShowMeLiberty

> I was talking to my sister about primal the other day.  Was telling her about the science of it all.  Did.not.compute.  I finally asked her if she had ever seen a fat tiger or lion"?  And then "what do they feed animals to fatten them up before they slaughter them"?  Changed her whole pardigm...lol.


I used the "what do they feed cows and pigs to make them fat" line when talking about primal with my mom last week. She mentioned how she only buys this very expensive food for her cat - a brand with no grain fillers - to keep her cat lean and healthy. Putting those two ideas together was like a light bulb going on over her head. Like so many people, she never put it all together before.

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## ShowMeLiberty

> I know under normal circumstances that is true but I have a very active lifestyle. I work in a furniture warehouse twice a week and I'm constantly using all my muscles( just about lol) I know they say if you don't use it, you lose it....but I am still using them and I'm not noticing a drop in strength. Actually my muscles feel more firm( probably b/c there is less fat to cushion them). 
> 
> If you are working the muscles on a low calorie diet, how could your body start to burn them over the fat?


If you aren't noticing any strength reduction you're probably still ok. Just pay attention to it because you can lose not only lean muscle but also organ mass and bone density http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...#axzz1z3OJVKuS.

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## PatriotOne

> Another good example is a sumo wrestler. They stuff themselves silly with rice and beer to get big--most Japanese people are virtually incapable of getting fat.







> I used the "what do they feed cows and pigs to make them fat" line when talking about primal with my mom last week. She mentioned how she only buys this very expensive food for her cat - a brand with no grain fillers - to keep her cat lean and healthy. Putting those two ideas together was like a light bulb going on over her head. Like so many people, she never put it all together before.


I know!  I'm done talking about the science of it all.   It's just too confusing for people.  We got a zillion examples at our fingertips in nature .

My new lab/beaver mix puppy is primal except for carpet, my wireless wire, my porch, bark, sod, his new $50 bed, and my fake tree so far.

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## HopeForHumanity

> I woulda went paleo / primal.  It's how your body evolved / was created to eat


they are practically the same, one just prohibits dairy and artificial sweeteners (paleo). From my experiments they are both extremely efficient and powerful diets. However, you have to stick to it your whole life because they represent a life style of eating that we shared with our earliest human ancestors.

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## HopeForHumanity

You can argue over whether the diet is healthy. But from my experience, I lost 120 pounds. I checked my blood regularly and my blood was so healthy it surprised my doctors. I also gained the most muscle in my entire life... IN 6 MONTHS. It really does work, at least for me.

Genetics plays a large role in what diet will work for you.

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## andrew1229649

> You can argue over whether the diet is healthy. But from my experience, I lost 120 pounds. I checked my blood regularly and my blood was so healthy it surprised my doctors. I also gained the most muscle in my entire life... IN 6 MONTHS. It really does work, at least for me.
> 
> Genetics plays a large role in what diet will work for you.


Wait, you went primal?

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## RickyJ

> *Day 27: 265.0
> Change: -33.4*
> I am 6'1". Yes, impressed myself. Folks ask me how I'm doing it but I really don't want to share because they will rake me out and tell me it's unhealthy. But so is 300 lbs lol. Here it goes, the only thing I count is calories. I know just about the calorie content of everything now lol. My calorie intake is set at 600 per day. I know, I know it's not good....but it's working. Also, I'm consuming about  3/4 of a gallon of water a day. I do not plan on continuing this diet for the rest of my life or for too much longer. Once I get close to my goal, I'm going to gradually work my way back to the calories needed to maintain my weight.
> 
> NO!, I never cheat. There has been no desire to. Most of the time you cheat early on or if you aren't having results. I have made it past that stage. I do treat myself to a small portion of no fat frozen vanilla yogurt. I taste just like ice cream  I've only done that twice in almost 30 days. If you consider that cheating well.... lol 
> 
> One more thing...I do try and keep everything balanced. You can't consume 600 calories worth of bread and starches everyday. A few rules I have added to the 600 calories a day is... consume at least 200 calories of vegetables, limit the starches as much as possible, and absolutely nothing but water(unless it's milk for the cereal, milk for scrambled eggs, or an occasional glass of Orange juice).


Not eating works for everybody. But at your weight it can't hurt and only be good if you don't put it all back on after you start eating more again. When you do start eating more increase your daily exercise at the same time and you will have a much better chance of keeping the weight off. Good luck!

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## trey4sports

> they are practically the same, *one just prohibits dairy and artificial sweeteners (paleo)*. From my experiments they are both extremely efficient and powerful diets. However, you have to stick to it your whole life because they represent a life style of eating that we shared with our earliest human ancestors.





That is not the difference between the two diets. 

Mark Sisson said numerous times that dairy is *NOT* primal. Of course the caveat is that he essentially says a little wont kill you, but that does not mean that dairy is in anyway primal. He actually wrote a post detailing the difference in the diets. *The main difference is that Paleo tends to try and detour heavy saturated fat intake whereas Mark advocates getting 50-75% of your calories from healthy fats.* As far as artificial sweeteners go you have it backwards..... Artificial sweetners are allowed on Paleo, not primal. 

here is the article detailing the difference between the two lifestyle diets. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/whats...#axzz1z3geXbuz


And honestly, I think they are (for the most part) interchangeable.

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## Kluge

Either way, if something is working for you--stick with it. I don't eat a lot of dairy, but I wouldn't have gotten through in the beginning without it.

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## Acala

I say: "if you want the body of a feedlot steer, eat what they eat (grain and legumes).  If you want the body of a feral bushman, eat what they ate (Primal).

I don't worry at all about calories.  And I don't worry about portion size (except for fruit and nuts, which need to be eaten in moderation).  It's easy.

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## HopeForHumanity

> That is not the difference between the two diets. 
> 
> Mark Sisson said numerous times that dairy is *NOT* primal. Of course the caveat is that he essentially says a little wont kill you, but that does not mean that dairy is in anyway primal. He actually wrote a post detailing the difference in the diets. *The main difference is that Paleo tends to try and detour heavy saturated fat intake whereas Mark advocates getting 50-75% of your calories from healthy fats.* As far as artificial sweeteners go you have it backwards..... Artificial sweetners are allowed on Paleo, not primal. 
> 
> here is the article detailing the difference between the two lifestyle diets. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/whats...#axzz1z3geXbuz
> 
> 
> And honestly, I think they are (for the most part) interchangeable.


I guess you have done more research on the diets. But most of it is basically common sense and experimentation if you want to lose weight effectively. Some people even say running is bad during the beginning of induction, but all I know is I try to eat around 30-50g carbohydrates a day, always running when up in the 50's. Its simply all a matter of keeping insulin levels lower and more stabilized. Protein being used to repair muscle is what your insulin should primarily be doing if ketone levels are optimal.

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## trey4sports

> I guess you have done more research on the diets. But most of it is basically common sense and experimentation if you want to lose weight effectively. Some people even say running is bad during the beginning of induction, but all I know is I try to eat around 30-50g carbohydrates a day, always running when up in the 50's. Its simply all a matter of keeping insulin levels lower and more stabilized. Protein being used to repair muscle is what your insulin should primarily be doing if ketone levels are optimal.



yeah, i think the most important thing is stabilizing insulin. That is where the weight and inflammation come from.

----------


## Acala

> yeah, i think the most important thing is stabilizing insulin. That is where the weight and inflammation come from.


Yes.  But balancing essential fatty acids is also important.  Too much omega 6 is inflammatory.

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## BamaAla

> That is not the difference between the two diets. 
> 
> Mark Sisson said numerous times that dairy is *NOT* primal. Of course the caveat is that he essentially says a little wont kill you, but that does not mean that dairy is in anyway primal. He actually wrote a post detailing the difference in the diets. *The main difference is that Paleo tends to try and detour heavy saturated fat intake whereas Mark advocates getting 50-75% of your calories from healthy fats.* As far as artificial sweeteners go you have it backwards..... Artificial sweetners are allowed on Paleo, not primal. 
> 
> here is the article detailing the difference between the two lifestyle diets. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/whats...#axzz1z3geXbuz
> 
> 
> And honestly, I think they are (for the most part) interchangeable.


Mark Sission doesn't speak as absolute on the matter as you do. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy...#axzz1zEEeTRb5 Also, there is the fact that both of his cookbooks are about 25% butter...

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## trey4sports

> Yes.  But balancing essential fatty acids is also important.  Too much omega 6 is inflammatory.



yeah, no doubt. I was just summarizing the main thing to take away from the lifestyle (at least in my opinion)




> Mark Sission doesn't speak as absolute on the matter as you do. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy...#axzz1zEEeTRb5 Also, there is the fact that both of his cookbooks are about 25% butter...


yes, he calls for _clarified_ butter which is also known as ghee. This is butter that has had the milk solids boiled out.

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## andrew1229649

*Day 41: 263.6
Change: -34.8*

So a lot has changed in the past 2 weeks. I realized I had to make a change to my 500 calories diet. First off, I had plateaued and there for the last few days I actually started gaining weight. Very strange... Anyway, another reason  I had to change was because I almost passed out a little over a week ago. So about 10 days ago I bumped my diet up to 1000 calories. My weight bumped up slightly before(like I said before) and some more after I went to 1000 calories. Then 5 days ago I bought a tread mill. I spend at least 1 hour every day on it, 30 minutes at a time. 5 days ago, when I bought the tread mill, I weighed 267.5. So, that is almost a pound a day, again. 

I do feel like I could consume anywhere from 1300-1500 calories a day but I am going to try this out for 2 weeks in total and then make an assessment. 

What do you guys think. Are 1000 calories okay? Now I know from personal experience that 500 is not near enough. And eventually you start reversing your weight loss. Can anyone actually explain to me why that happens?

----------


## TCE

> *Day 41: 263.6
> Change: -34.8*
> 
> So a lot has changed in the past 2 weeks. I realized I had to make a change to my 500 calories diet. First off, I had plateaued and there for the last few days I actually started gaining weight. Very strange... Anyway, another reason  I had to change was because I almost passed out a little over a week ago. So about 10 days ago I bumped my diet up to 1000 calories. My weight bumped up slightly before(like I said before) and some more after I went to 1000 calories. Then 5 days ago I bought a tread mill. I spend at least 1 hour every day on it, 30 minutes at a time. 5 days ago, when I bought the tread mill, I weighed 267.5. So, that is almost a pound a day, again. 
> 
> I do feel like I could consume anywhere from 1300-1500 calories a day but I am going to try this out for 2 weeks in total and then make an assessment. 
> 
> What do you guys think. Are 1000 calories okay? Now I know from personal experience that 500 is not near enough. And eventually you start reversing your weight loss. Can anyone actually explain to me why that happens?


I would go to 1300-1500 per day. I am guessing your body went into starvation mode at 500 calories per day since that is not nearly enough to sustain a person. 1000 is still too low. Depending on what you're eating, you definitely should be able to make another 500 calorie jump. For a 263 lb person, I can't imagine 1000 calories being enough.

----------


## trey4sports

im with TCE here. 

you need more than 1000 calories a day. bump it up to 1500 and your diet will be more sustainable and you'll be able to embed it into your lifestyle as opposed to just a crash diet. 


plus, i'd recommend taking at least a basic multi-vite if your continue with your low, low calorie diet.

----------


## Acala

> *Day 41: 263.6
> Change: -34.8*
> 
> So a lot has changed in the past 2 weeks. I realized I had to make a change to my 500 calories diet. First off, I had plateaued and there for the last few days I actually started gaining weight. Very strange... Anyway, another reason  I had to change was because I almost passed out a little over a week ago. So about 10 days ago I bumped my diet up to 1000 calories. My weight bumped up slightly before(like I said before) and some more after I went to 1000 calories. Then 5 days ago I bought a tread mill. I spend at least 1 hour every day on it, 30 minutes at a time. 5 days ago, when I bought the tread mill, I weighed 267.5. So, that is almost a pound a day, again. 
> 
> I do feel like I could consume anywhere from 1300-1500 calories a day but I am going to try this out for 2 weeks in total and then make an assessment. 
> 
> What do you guys think. Are 1000 calories okay? Now I know from personal experience that 500 is not near enough. And eventually you start reversing your weight loss. Can anyone actually explain to me why that happens?


TCE is right.  You pushed your body into starvation mode.  Why are you torturing yourself?

----------


## andrew1229649

*Day 45: 259.4
Change: -39*
My ObamaCare is going to be a lot cheaper now!

----------


## TNforPaul45

> *Day 45: 259.4
> Change: -39*
> My ObamaCare is going to be a lot cheaper now!


Way to go, Andrew! I've been doing Primal/Atkins since last Feb, and started in the gym since last July. I've lost 85 lbs since then. I have about 30 more to go, and the past 2 weeks I've taken a break and stayed at maintenance mode, letting my right knee heal up a bit. But Primal + Moderate exercise works wonders! I have been averaging about 1500 calories a day, maybe 2000 some days, but keeping the carbs under 100g a day forces your body to burn Fat and not Sugars. 

Hang in there. That -40 will be -80 before long. When you get to -60, people will start noticing (they did for me anyway!)

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## anaconda

> *Day 45: 259.4
> Change: -39*
> My ObamaCare is going to be a lot cheaper now!


How many carbs are you doing?

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## WilliamShrugged

Exercise and dieting are key. I always eat things that i enjoy but also are healthy. I eat 5-6 meals a day and go to the gym twice a day (once on my way to, and leaving work). This is the routine i follow....

Wake up at 5 am

Meal 1: 6 egg whites cooked. and a whey protein shake with 1/2 a cup of raw oatmeal with a handful of blueberries. Also take fish oil pills.

Workout at 6:00 a.m. Focus on main body part for that day (arms, chest, legs, shoulders, back, etc). Then end the last 20 minutes with swimming.

Meal 2 (8-8:30): Whey protein shake and a of a peanut butter and banana sandwich

Meal 3 (10:30-11): 1/2 of another peanut butter and banana sandwich

Meal 4 (1:00): brown rice with broccoli and chicken breast

Meal 5 (4:00): the last half of the peanut butter and banana sandwich

Workout (after work 5-6 pm) Abs and cardio only at gym

Meal 6 (7:00): Whey protein shake and 1/3 lbs deli meat.

----------


## libertygrl

> I thought he slipped on ice and fell or something?
> 
> Anyway, it is processed carbohydrates that cause heart disease, not good fats or even saturated fats.  The government food pyramids are wrong.  They are based off diets that were used to fatten cattle.  Way too heavy on sugar, grains, and starches.


Just What Killed the Diet Doctor, And What Keeps the Issue Alive?

By N.R. KLEINFIELD
Published: February 11, 2004


So was he fat or svelte or maybe a tad chubby? Was it really a slip on the ice or could it have been something else -- even, dare it be said, something he ate?

Now there are confidential documents passed to the news media, and still more dueling authorities, not to mention the ticklish matter of the mayor and the doctor's widow and the promised steak dinner.

Oh the mess goes on and on like a seven-course meal.

Dr. Robert Atkins, the diet doctor who popularized the notion that dieters could eat fat and lose weight, has been dead for nearly a year, after he fell on some ice and hit his head last April, yet indecorous questions about his health and, yes, his weight persist, and the mayor, who hasn't even been on the diet, can't seem to stay out of it all.

The latest twist is the publication in The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday of details from Dr. Atkins's confidential medical report. The report concludes that Dr. Atkins, 72, had a history of heart attack and congestive heart failure and notes that he weighed 258 pounds at death.

The release of the report by New York City officials outraged the Atkins people. It also annoyed Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, already on delicate ground in Atkins matters. ''What happened is we made a mistake,'' said Ellen Borakove, spokeswoman for the city medical examiner's office. Late last year, the office received a request for Dr. Atkins's medical report from Dr. Richard Fleming of the Fleming Heart and Health Institute in Omaha, Neb. On Dec. 22, a member of the records staff mistakenly mailed it out.

While cause and manner of death are public information, medical reports are not. They are to be shared only with the next of kin or anyone authorized by the next of kin, physicians or medical facilities that treated the deceased, or state or federal facilities that legitimately need it.

So it was fine to tell the world that the cause of death was ''blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma'' because Dr. Atkins ''fell from upright position,'' but that's it.

Dr. Fleming was not a treating physician, and, according to Ms. Borakove, did not say he was. A critic of the Atkins diet, he passed the report on to a group he was acquainted with, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which promotes a vegetarian diet and denounces the Atkins plan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/ny...sue-alive.html

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## andrew1229649

I have never figured it up until now. Between 65 and 75 carbs. 75 is the high side and it's hardly ever that many.

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## WilliamShrugged

I recommend kettle bell workouts. It might not isolate certain muscles like traditional lifting does, but the strength you gain is much more impressive. Wrestlers and MMA fights use kettle bells for that reason. That and you can do them at home instead of spending $ monthly at the gym. I personally haven't done this yet because of my constant moving around, but when i do i will buy them and start. This site has great deals and they sponsor Joe Rogan Podcast (A big Paul supporter)  http://www.onnit.com/kettlebells/

Steve Maxwell is great with Kettle Bell workouts

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## trey4sports

bump for update on OP's progress.

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## andrew1229649

*Day 56: 251.4
Change: -47*

I have started eating five meals a day and they are spaced out from 8:30am to 6:30pm. I am moving faster on the treadmill. Exercisng on it for 1 hour and 10 mins instead of 1 hour. 35 mins in the morning and 35 mins in the evening.

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## Eagles' Wings

> So today I started the Atkins Diet.  I got on the scale and realized just how badly I really needed to lose weight.  I stand at 5'7 and weigh 297.  I'm getting married in one month, so by then I hope to weigh about 275.  I've been on this diet before, so I know I can drop weight pretty fast in the beginning.  Anyway, this thread will be like a little journal to let you all know how I'm doing with it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Day 1: 297 lbs*


How did the wedding go and how are you doing with the diet change?  Take good care.

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## andrew1229649

*Day 82: 239.2
Change: -59.2*

It has been a while since I have posted to this thread, I kind of forgot about it. As you can tell the weight loss has slowed down a good bit, but it is still coming off.

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## andrew1229649

*Day 103: 231.2 
Change : -66.2*

For anyone still paying attention.

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## Bruno

> *Day 103: 231.2 
> Change : -66.2*
> 
> For anyone still paying attention.


Still paying attention and way to go!  You have to feel great to have that weight off!  Hope you are adding muscle, too, and overall feel like you've made a lifestyle change so you don't slide back into old habits (and jeans!)

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## andrew1229649

Yes, yes, yes, and yes lol Looking to lose about 30 more though...don't mind if it's a slower process, prob healthier that way.

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## dannno

So I've been mostly primal for the last two months and energy wise I feel like I'm maybe 1 or 2 points higher out of a hundred. I could go back to being veggie and I'd be ok, but for now I'm sticking with primal.

I lost some weight right off the bat and pretty much got down to bare-bones as skinny as I get and have been struggling to stay active and gain muscle (work full time, have a high maintenance gf and just got back form a big road trip). 

One thing I've noticed is that I can easily add on the carbs and gain weight and then within a couple days or so lose all the weight immediately. I feel like I have more control over my weight, like I'm driving a manual transmission whereas before I was driving an automatic.

My gf tried to stick with it for a few weeks but she is just way too addicted to carbs, or anything that tastes like carbs and would constantly be trying to cheat with fake carbs (splenda) or would load up her morning coffee with 5 tablespoons of sugar and total throw everything off. Then to top it off something very unfortunate happened. I've been trying to get her to go to the doctor to get some tests done on her thyroid, blood sugar as well as a gamut of nutrient tests to look for deficiencies. Well, she brought in the list of tests I wanted and of course they would only do about half of them so I still have no idea what is actually going on for certain. What I do know is that her fasting blood sugar came in at 99mg or whatever it is measured in, which is ONE POINT below THEIR threshold for pre-diabetes. Of course the doctors said NOTHING and did NO further testing. Her TC came in very high, but that was because her LDL came in at 89, that is the "good" cholesterol and they say optimal range is 40-60.. so she blew that test out of the water, thanks to all the fish oil, fish, grass-fed meats, etc.. But the god damn stupid $#@!ing piece of $#@! doctor told her she needs to cut her intake of..... ANIMAL PRODUCTS..... because her total cholesterol is too high. $#@!ing retards.

I. Hate. Doctors. So. Much. 

So she quit primal and was originally gonna try the chicken and vegetable diet (which is technically primal in a sense, but she would have been eating grain fed chicken mostly cuz the pasture fed is way too expensive to live off, though I do buy it and prepare it at least once a week).. So she has been calorie counting. It has been working sorta, but not really cause she's always bouncing up and down so we'll see how long it lasts.

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## KerriAnn

I tried the Atkins diet a few years ago with my husband. We both started at the same time, and because he is much bigger than me and had more weight to lose, he shed extra pounds off like crazy. 
My weight loss was much slower, but I didn't have a lot to lose (I wasn't overweight technically, just in the higher end of my BMI range). 

One really great thing I noticed was the way my face cleared up. I get breakouts on my face, not super bad, but annoying for sure, and after being on the Atkins diet for a couple weeks my complexion was perfect. 

I've never heard of this paleo diet, but how does it differ from the Atkins diet?

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## dannno

> I've never heard of this paleo diet, but how does it differ from the Atkins diet?


Paleo is caveman diet, so no grains, no legumes, no dairy. Just meat, veggies, some fruit and nuts. However another huge aspect of paleo is that the diet discourages eating grain fed animals in favor of wild fish, grass/pasture fed animals. This is because they've found that inflammatory conditions like heart disease are actually caused by high intake of omega 6 fatty acids. So you want high omega 3 fatty acids, which you can get from wild/pasture meat sources, fish oil or coconut oil supplements, but you also want to work on LOWERING the amount of omega 6 fatty acids that you take in.

Primal (Blueprint) diet is based on the paleo diet and is promoted by a guy named Mark Scisson. One big difference is that they say if your system is good with dairy, then it might be ok to incorporate raw milk, yogurt and cheese, preferably pasture fed milk into your diet. Mark does a lot of scientific analysis on different types of foods and such and rates them so people can make better choices if they need or want to step out of the paleo 'box' for a special occasion or something. For example, white rice once in a while is ok, especially if it's alongside some raw fish, but it's not something you'd want to eat every day, optimally.

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## farreri

I've been trying the 80-10-10 diet (high carb/low protein/low fat) the last couple of weeks and been losing a lot of body fat without losing muscle mass!  I'm feeling stronger and notice a lot more energy, especially when exercising.

Eating closer to Macrobiotic/McDougall than mostly fruit/leafy greens as a lot of raw foodist 80-10-10's do.  Not overdoing it on the grains though.  Eating more potatoes instead.  Eating tons of vegetables and greens.  Stopped using olive oil and nut butters.  Only oil I'm using is my leftover coconut oil, but just a small spoonful a day.  A little soy sauce is about the most processed I'm occasionally using.  Fish a couple times a week is only meat I've been eating.  Also eating at least half my food raw.  

I'm rethinking my entire philosophy on diet.  

Anybody needing to lose some weight, would be interesting to for you to experiment with this diet for a month or so to hear your thoughts on how it works for you.  Only one way to find out!

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## BamaAla

> I've been trying the 80-10-10 diet (high carb/low protein/low fat) the last couple of weeks and been losing a lot of body fat without losing muscle mass!  I'm feeling stronger and notice a lot more energy, especially when exercising.
> 
> Eating closer to Macrobiotic/McDougall than mostly fruit/leafy greens as a lot of raw foodist 80-10-10's do.  Not overdoing it on the grains though.  Eating more potatoes instead.  Eating tons of vegetables and greens.  Stopped using olive oil and nut butters.  Only oil I'm using is my leftover coconut oil, but just a small spoonful a day.  A little soy sauce is about the most processed I'm occasionally using.  Fish a couple times a week is only meat I've been eating.  Also eating at least half my food raw.  
> 
> I'm rethinking my entire philosophy on diet.  
> 
> Anybody needing to lose some weight, would be interesting to for you to experiment with this diet for a month or so to hear your thoughts on how it works for you.  Only one way to find out!


What method are you using to track your body composition? How much resistance training are you doing?

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## andrew1229649

*Day 199: 218
Change: - 79.4
*

Less than 30 lbs to go!

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## farreri

Good job, Andrew!

Interestingly I've lost 30 pounds doing that McDougall low fat high carbs diet.  I've lost all the weight I can lose really and I'm eating more fruit than I ever have!

Makes me wonder if it's the combination of high carbs and high fats that is why people gain weight?

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## andrew1229649

Thanks Farreri. Congratulations to you for losing 30 lbs as well. I think it is a combination of things. High fructose corn syrup is probably the number one culprit. The way most Americans consume a pile of HFCS is through sodas. Consuming lots of fiber is a really big help in losing weight. I supplement with powdered Psyllium Husk. Getting adequate exercise tends to help those lbs melt off a bit quicker, but it seems that you have to exercise more and more for it to remain effective.

Losing weight and keeping it off has become very simple for me now. I don't know why it has. It's like a switch was flipped one day. I just have to have a working pair of scales and be aware of what I am eating. It has become a bit expensive, buying new cloths every month isn't cheap

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## brandon

Nice work Andrew!  I just recently got back in the weight room and am hoping to drop 30 lbs by spring.  My diet is high protein (150g/day) low calories (about 800 under maintenance) and I eat whatever the hell I want under those constraints. Any tips to stay motivated? Got any new progress pics?

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## jj-

> Nice work Andrew!  I just recently got back in the weight room and am hoping to drop 30 lbs by spring.  My diet is high protein (150g/day) low calories (about 800 under maintenance) and I eat whatever the hell I want under those constraints. Any tips to stay motivated? Got any new progress pics?


Hey, everyone is an expert on nutrition, but I still have some advice in case you would consider it: add another constraint: minimization as much as possible of polyunsaturated fats, because they slow down metabolism. The effects however can be seen in months, not days. To achieve this, consume fats that are saturated instead. If you use vegetable oils, use coconut oil instead (refined to cook in high temperatures). If you eat margarine, eat butter instead. If you eat meat, eat preferably beef. For more information, check out my signature or google Ray Peat.

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## andrew1229649

Thank you. Motivation comes from within. I look at some of my before pics and think to myself that I will never return to those days. Keeping a pair of scales helps me see what things are and are not working. I get on the scales everyday at the same time now. Watching the numbers encourages me to stick to the plan. 

I will most some new progression pics tomorrow.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Good job, Andrew!
> 
> Interestingly I've lost 30 pounds doing that McDougall low fat high carbs diet.  I've lost all the weight I can lose really and I'm eating more fruit than I ever have!
> 
> Makes me wonder if it's the combination of high carbs and high fats that is why people gain weight?


It depends on the kind of carbs.  Fruits and veggies have carbs, but the carbs are offest by fiber and other nutrients (plus the fact that they aren't simple carbs, except for most fruits).  Also depends on your activity level.  If you're active enough, you can take in more sugar than a normal person because your body will still be burning fat for fuel.  I'm a hard-gainer myself, but I'm very active (kung fu and weight lifting especially).   I eat dessert every night (usually something simple, though) too, and my problem is still GAINING weight.  This is why pro athletes can drink those sugary sports drinks and not get fat.

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## heavenlyboy34

btw, congrats on the weight loss, andrew!  ~applauds~

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## farreri

> I eat dessert every night (usually something simple, though) too, and my problem is still GAINING weight.


Look closely at the fat content.  You'll be surprised how many desserts have a high amount of calories from fat.

It really looks to me you either have to be high carb/low fat, or low carb/high fat to not get obese.

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## trey4sports

> I recommend kettle bell workouts. It might not isolate certain muscles like traditional lifting does, but the strength you gain is much more impressive. Wrestlers and MMA fights use kettle bells for that reason. That and you can do them at home instead of spending $ monthly at the gym. I personally haven't done this yet because of my constant moving around, but when i do i will buy them and start. This site has great deals and they sponsor Joe Rogan Podcast (A big Paul supporter)  http://www.onnit.com/kettlebells/
> 
> Steve Maxwell is great with Kettle Bell workouts




hell, that's all joe rogan uses these days.

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## Seraphim

Fruit carbs are the exact type of carbs you REQUIRE. Simple, natural, easy to utilize sugars. They are NOT the same as HFCS or complex grain carbs. Carbs are not created equal. Not even close.

If you have a carb craving, EAT FRUIT. And eat as much of it as your body requires. 

Your body is designed to consume fruits, vegetables, nuts, meats and legumes. If you are hungry eat these type of foods. Our ancestors ate fruit carbs ALL DAY LONG. They were LEAN and (when they could get enough food) high energy specimen.




> You can, but the carbs add up pretty fast.

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## Seraphim

Furthermore, when cooking/preparing food - if something sweet is desired (or recipe requires) use high quality honey and natural sugar cane. These sugars are HEALTHY for you. Obviously if you guzzle honey you will add weight (calorie surplus) but you should not shy away from HEALTHY carbs. 

I'm also 24 years old (soon 25) and the opposite of you (or your thread starting point).

I'm 5'9 or 5'10, weight 185 pounds with a muscular/athelic build and a 6 pack (under 10% body fat). I've been like that my whole life. 

Despite my solid genes - this is primarily ENVIRONMENTALLY DRIVEN. I eat astoundingly well. I have since I was a little boy (my mother was a nutritionist and a damn good one at that).

If you eat right, you will have boundless energy and will find that as the months go by your body and mind FIND ways to utilize this energy. Your BF will go down, muscle composition up, testostone WAY up, sex drive up, erectile capability up (har har har pun intended).

Exercise and active lifestyles come first from being CAPABLE of doing so - finding healthy and TASTY meals that you can eat every day of your life will change your ENTIRE life.

I hope your venture is going well and I hope you acheive what you want.








> Fruit carbs are the exact type of carbs you REQUIRE. Simple, natural, easy to utilize sugars. They are NOT the same as HFCS or complex grain carbs. Carbs are not created equal. Not even close.
> 
> If you have a carb craving, EAT FRUIT. And eat as much of it as your body requires. 
> 
> Your body is designed to consume fruits, vegetables, nuts, meats and legumes. If you are hungry eat these type of foods. Our ancestors ate fruit carbs ALL DAY LONG. They were LEAN and (when they could get enough food) high energy specimen.

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## farreri

I read about how Dr. Atkins died again and I now believe he had either a stroke or heart attack that caused his fall and he was obese when it happened.  I do believe he swelled up a bit from being in the coma for over a week, but to be allowed by the hospital to swell up over 60 POUNDS in their care???  Hardly.  The doctors would had their licenses revoked if they let someone in a coma swell up that much with fluid.

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