# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  Flu Shots Linked To Lower Heart Attack, Stroke Risk

## angelatc

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/f...k-201310236795




> A study published in todays _Journal of the American Medical Association_ finds that getting the influenza vaccine lowers a persons odds of a having heart attack, stroke, heart failure, or other major cardiac eventincluding deathby about a third over the following year.
> 
> Whats the connection between flu and cardiovascular problems? When you get the flu, your body mounts an impressive immune response, which causes a lot of inflammation. As a result, the plaque inside your blood vessels can become unstable, which can lead to blockage and a possible heart attack or stroke, says study leader Jacob Udell, MD, a cardiologist at Womens College Hospital in Toronto and a clinician-scientist at the University of Toronto.

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## Dr.3D

I'll bet somebody says, "The shot doesn't lower any risk if it doesn't really keep someone from getting the flu."

Oops... I just did....

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## AFPVet

So, in other words, the flu shot doesn't actually do this... it's the immunity from the flu that does  So anything that you can do to boost your immunity and reduce inflammation would benefit  If I remember, flu shots are only effective on a fraction of flu cases.

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## angelatc

> I'll bet somebody says, "The shot doesn't lower any risk if it doesn't really keep someone from getting the flu."
> 
> Oops... I just did....





> ....getting the influenza vaccine lowers a person’s odds of a having heart attack, stroke, heart failure, or other major cardiac event—including death—by about a third over the following year.


I think 30% is a big deal.

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## RickyJ

If you  believe this then I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you real cheap. If anything it raises your chance of having a heart attack and/or stroke, not lower it.

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## brandon

Yea but if I'm already autistic do I really care about strokes that much? /s

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## RickyJ

> So, in other words, the flu shot doesn't actually do this... it's the immunity from the flu that does  So anything that you can do to boost your immunity and reduce inflammation would benefit  If I remember, flu shots are only effective on a fraction of flu cases.


That's right, but they are trying to sell their flu shots so they will push this propaganda until getting a flu shot will become mandatory.

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## RickyJ

> I think 30% is a big deal.


Have you got your flu shot yet? I want to see a picture of you getting your flu shot this year.

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## brandon

> If you  believe this then I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you real cheap. If anything it raises your chance of having a heart attack and/or stroke, not lower it.


Well $#@!. Here I was, all ready to believe this peer reviewed scholarly article by the largest association of physicians in existence, dating back over 100 years, just to be a fool. Thank you for presenting this compelling case to the contrary. I can always count on RickyJ to set me straight. /drunk $#@!

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## RickyJ

> Well $#@!. I was all ready to believe this peer reviewed scholarly article by the largest association of physicians in existence, dating back over 100 years. Thank you for presenting this compelling case to the contrary. I can always count on RickyJ to set me straight. /drunk $#@!


I have no financial motive in this, no bribes, no anything. The same can't be said for the "largest association of establishment trained doctors in the world."

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## angelatc

> Have you got your flu shot yet? I want to see a picture of you getting your flu shot this year.


I love that you're concerned about my health, but I have a rare autoimmune disorder that puts me in the relatively small subset of the adult population that isn't supposed to get the shot.  I have to depend on the rest of the population not carrying it around.

But my husband already had a stroke, which puts him at risk for another stroke.  I will absolutely be pushing him to get the shot if the stroke didn't put him in the same group.

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## LibertyEagle

I don't know.  My brother-in-law is an M.D. and what he has told me is that the flu shot in any given year was made to protect you against getting the strains that were in LAST YEAR's flu.  Since the strains are mostly different every year, the flu shot may or may not help you.

For me, I was sicker than a dog after getting the flu shot the one time I got one.  Never again.

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## dannno

> I think 30% is a big deal.


Vitamin D, low carb, good fats = 100%

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## eduardo89

> I don't know.  My brother-in-law is an M.D. and what he has told me is that the flu shot in any given year was made to protect you against getting the strains that were in LAST YEAR's flu.  Since the strains are mostly different every year, the flu shot may or may not help you.
> 
> For me, I was sicker than a dog after getting the flu shot the one time I got one.  Never again.


While the flu shot is prepared a couple months in advance, scientists are able to predict with great accuracy how the flu virus will change for the following flu season.

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## fr33

So do the pro-flu vaccine people recommend that I get the shot in order to prevent stroke and heart attack risk? I certainly don't think it is worth taking to prevent the flu.

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## Dr.3D

> I think 30% is a big deal.


Not getting the flu reduces your risk by 30%.  Yeah, it's a big deal, but it has nothing to do with the vaccine.  The vaccine doesn't reduce your risk of heart attack/stroke by even 1%.

I agree with them.   Not getting the flu is a good idea.

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## brandon

> So do the pro-flu vaccine people recommend that I get the shot in order to prevent stroke and heart attack risk? I certainly don't think it is worth taking to prevent the flu.


It's worth getting to help build herd immunity even if you aren't particularly at risk for a heart attack or stroke.. Help out your elders and all.  Personal decision though really, I have never got one before but may in the next couple years. If you live or work closely with someone who is at risk you probably should do it.

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## AFPVet

> It's worth getting to help build herd immunity even if you aren't particularly at risk for a heart attack or stroke.. Help out your elders and all.  Personal decision though really, I have never got one before but may in the next couple years. If you live or work closely with someone who is at risk you probably should do it.


 Not only is building your immunity great for helping to mitigate the flu, but other diseases as well... such as carcinomas.

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## angelatc

> Vitamin D, low carb, good fats = 100%


Nonsense.  There's no such thing as a 100% guarantee against strokes or heart attacks.

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## angelatc

> Not getting the flu reduces your risk by 30%.  Yeah, it's a big deal, but it has nothing to do with the vaccine.  The vaccine doesn't reduce your risk of heart attack/stroke by even 1%.
> 
> I agree with them.   Not getting the flu is a good idea.


 They clearly said people who got the flu shot reduced the risk of heart attacks and strokes by a third.  Don't know why you're struggling with that.

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## Dr.3D

> They clearly said people who got the flu shot reduced the risk of heart attacks and strokes by a third.  Don't know why you're struggling with that.


Because they also said the reason there was a reduced risk was because of not having the flu.

They are fooling you into thinking something they didn't say.

Did they say your risk was reduced if you had the flu shot but still got the flu?

Of course if you got to the flu,  you didn't have any kind of reduced risk.

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## AFPVet

> They clearly said people who got the flu shot reduced the risk of heart attacks and strokes by a third.  Don't know why you're struggling with that.


Actually, the research said that “*When you get the flu*, your body mounts an impressive immune response, which causes a lot of inflammation. As a result, the plaque inside your blood vessels can become unstable, which can lead to blockage and a possible heart attack or stroke,” says study leader Jacob Udell, MD, a cardiologist at Women’s College Hospital in Toronto and a clinician-scientist at the University of Toronto."

It's not the shot... its the lack of the flu. Once again, you should build your immunity

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## angelatc

> Actually, the research said that “*When you get the flu*, your body mounts an impressive immune response, which causes a lot of inflammation. As a result, the plaque inside your blood vessels can become unstable, which can lead to blockage and a possible heart attack or stroke,” says study leader Jacob Udell, MD, a cardiologist at Women’s College Hospital in Toronto and a clinician-scientist at the University of Toronto."
> 
> It's not the shot... its the lack of the flu. Once again, you should build your immunity


They really can't say it much clearer: 




> finds that* getting the influenza vaccine lowers a person’s odds of a having heart attack, stroke, heart failure, or other major cardiac event—including death—by about a third over the following year.*





> In a meta-analysis of RCTs,*the use of influenza vaccine was associated with a lower risk of major adverse cardiovascular events. The greatest treatment effect was seen among the highest-risk patients with more active coronary disease.* A large, adequately powered, multicenter trial is warranted to address these findings and assess individual cardiovascular end points.


Getting a flu shot is probably the best way to build immunity - duh.

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## fr33

> It's worth getting to help build herd immunity even if you aren't particularly at risk for a heart attack or stroke.. Help out your elders and all.  Personal decision though really, I have never got one before but may in the next couple years. If you live or work closely with someone who is at risk you probably should do it.


I just don't fear the flu. My wife works at a school and probably brings home every germ known to man. It's been over a decade since either one of us got the flu or the vaccine. The last time we did get the vaccine, we both got sick.

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## Zippyjuan

> I don't know.  My brother-in-law is an M.D. and what he has told me is that the flu shot in any given year was made to protect you against getting the strains that were in LAST YEAR's flu.  Since the strains are mostly different every year, the flu shot may or may not help you.
> 
> For me, I was sicker than a dog after getting the flu shot the one time I got one.  Never again.


That is true- the flu vaccine is basically for the dominant strains from the previous couple years but once you have been exposed to them (even if you didn't get sick), you can't get that version of the flu again so the dominant strain this year will be a different one- and not included in the vaccine because they don't know for certain what it will be.  That is why I don't get a flu shot. I tend to rarely get sick anyways. I have been with my current employer about 20 years and only called in sick three times.

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## angelatc

> That is true- the flu vaccine is basically for the dominant strains from the previous couple years but once you have been exposed to them (even if you didn't get sick), you can't get that version of the flu again so the dominant strain this year will be a different one- and not included in the vaccine because they don't know for certain what it will be.  That is why I don't get a flu shot. I tend to rarely get sick anyways. I have been with my current employer about 20 years and only called in sick three times.





> Each year the World Health Organization recommends to public health agencies which flu vaccine formulations to stockpile. The recommendation is based on the organization’s prediction of which flu strains will be active that year.But the WHO has wrongly predicted which strain would be dominant six times in the past 11 years, GSK officials said, which resulted in formulations that did not provide the fullest protection to the public.
> 
> 
> Vaccines with four strains are designed to increase the odds that the inoculation will be effective and not rely as much on the guesswork of scientists.
> 
> 
> In some cases a new virus emerges for which there is no vaccine. The last time that happened was in 2009, with the emergence of the H1N1 flu virus. Seasonal vaccines now inoculate against the H1N1 strain.


http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/...u-vaccine.html

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## donnay

No thanks I will take my chances and opt out of taking this vaccine.  The Medical mafia absolutely hate the second news report, and one of the reasons they are harassing this Doctor because his therapy is considered unconventional--even though it works!

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Can't wait for their next study.  Maybe it's about pork rinds increasing bone health.

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## donnay

Flashback:

*Vaccine-induced strokes on the rise among young people*
by: Ethan A. Huff


Research that late last year identified an increased prevalence of stokes among younger populations has failed to properly identify and investigate all potential causes of this dire phenomenon. Since they have increasingly become associated with a range of other medical conditions in recent years, vaccines are the "elephant in the room," to borrow the words of Gaia Health's Heidi Stevenson, who believes vaccines may be a prominent causative factor in elevated stroke rates.

Back in October, a report published in the journal of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN) found that between the years of 1993 and 2005, the stroke rate among individuals under the age of 55 increased by more than 44 percent. Many experts are apparently dumbfounded as to why there has been such a dramatic increase, and some have suggested that perhaps lack of exercise, poor dietary habits, obesity, and other chronic health and lifestyle factors may be to blame.

To their credit, these suggestions are all entirely feasible, and likely play a significant role in this epidemic of stroke cases. But the omission of vaccines as a possible factor is both negligent and irresponsible, considering that vaccines have been recently linked to causing narcolepsy, autoimmune disorders, and various other chronic health problems. According to Stevenson's assessment, it is only logical that vaccines might play some role, at the very least, in triggering early seizures.

"A range of neurological disorders [is] associated with vaccines, including macrophagic myofasciitis, encephalopathy, epilepsy, convulsions, Guillain-Barre syndrome, nerve deafness, blindness, paralysis, sudden infant death syndrome, and of course, autism," writes Stevenson. "Now that the earliest recipients of mass vaccination programs are entering middle age, why should we be surprised to find that they're more likely to suffer from another indication of brain damage, stroke?"

*Canadian doctor found more than a decade ago that vaccines can cause 'micro-strokes'*

Dr. Andrew Moulden, a Canadian doctor, actually discovered back in 2001 that vaccines can induce microvascular strokes in some people, *though none of the journals or medical organizations he submitted his research to would publish these shocking findings*. As it turns out, vaccines cause the body's natural immune system to hyper-react to the injection of foreign particle material, which prompts a massive release of white blood cells. And these white blood cells, which are too large to enter the bloodstream, surround capillaries and actually clog and collapse them, leading to what are essentially micro-strokes.

As a result, these blockages prevent smaller red blood cells from effectively delivering oxygen to the organs near these capillaries. And if these particles get anywhere near the brain, brain injuries such as autism and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) can ensue, which would explain a similar increase in these injuries in direct correlation to the ever-expanding childhood vaccination schedule.

"What should be clear by now is that vaccines are taking a severe toll on people's brains," adds Stevenson. "The cost both to the individuals, whose lives are afflicted by strokes, and to society as a whole, which loses [its] productiveness and is burdened with their care, is massive."

Sources for this article include:

http://gaia-health.com

http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com

http://www.naturalnews.com 

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039247_va...#ixzz2lZkQ326J

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## specsaregood

> Can't wait for their next study.  Maybe it's about pork rinds increasing bone health.


Ever looked at the nutritional label for a bag of pork rinds?  They aren't bad at all.  Usually the only ingredients are pork skin and salt, not a bunch of other crap with 4 syllable names.  More protein in them than anything else.  Maybe a little high in sodium if that scares you; but other than that I'd put a bag of pork rinds up on the healthy list above near any other bagged/processed food in the chip aisle.

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## angelatc

> No thanks I will take my chances and opt out of taking this vaccine.  The Medical mafia absolutely hate the second news report, and one of the reasons they are harassing this Doctor because his therapy is considered unconventional--even though it works!


Why do you unquestioningly believe snake oil sellers who have absolutely no clinical evidence to back up their assertions while adamantly refusing to believe anything that is documented and therefore verifiable?

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## angelatc

> (Serious bull$#@! crying nonsensically that a study that blamed obesity etc for strokes didn't mention vaccines.)
> 
> 
> Dr. Andrew Moulden, a Canadian doctor, actually discovered back in 2001 that vaccines can induce microvascular strokes in some people, *though none of the journals or medical organizations he submitted his research to would publish these shocking findings*.



That's a strong indicator that his methodology was seriously flawed.    

But here we go - one guy with a study we can't see....he's obviously telling a great truth.

Hundreds of scientists who print and review studies that can actually be replicated (or not) by people who have questions about the results?  Meh - it's a conspiracy.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Ever looked at the nutritional label for a bag of pork rinds?


If you have to read labels, then you've pretty much conceded your health.

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## smhbbag

Healthy-user effect.

That is all.

Here is what real science might be: find a group of flu-shot users, then find an equivalent group of those who didn't get the flu shot (matching the distribution for weight, income, age, etc.) then compare heart attacks and strokes. 

That study might be helpful, but don't expect it any time soon.

This thing isn't even science. In science, you do what you can to isolate a variable between two groups, holding other things constant. It appears they didn't even try.

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## Zippyjuan

> Originally Posted by donnay
> 
>  (Serious bull$#@! crying nonsensically that a study that blamed obesity etc for strokes didn't mention vaccines.)
> 
> 
> Dr. Andrew Moulden, a Canadian doctor, actually discovered back in 2001 that vaccines can induce microvascular strokes in some people, though none of the journals or medical organizations he submitted his research to would publish these shocking findings.
> 			
> 		
> 
> ...


Dr Moulden's education background is psychiatry- not medicine. http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1273056 
His medical degree- (he doesn't say what he studied but does say he was doing his Psych Phd at the same time so I would guess overlapping courses- the do have a psychiatry program- http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/psychiatryneu...history.html)?

*Dr. Andrew Moulden BA, MA, MD, PhD.* 




> Medcial School 
> 
> I went on to Medical school at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario from 1997-2000. The final aspects of the Ph.D. and the M.D. were completed concurrently – I would not recommend this to anyone. The Ph.D. was awarded in May, 1999. The M.D. was conferred in June, 2000. *I received the Licentiate of the Medical Council of Canada* after passing the LMCC-1 (written) and LMCC-2 (clinical skills) exams in 2004-2005.


About that license (which sounds very impressive! Along with all those BA MA PhD behind his name- most people drop the BA after they get their MA and that after the PhD- he is trying to sound important by keeping all of them).


http://mcc.ca/about/lmcc/




> *Limitations*
> 
> The LMCC *is not a licence to practise medicine*, the issuance of such being a function of the medical regulatory authorities. When a candidate has satisfied the various requirements imposed by the medical regulatory authority, the final step towards licensure to practise is to submit an application to the Registrar of that medical regulatory authority.


Only takes 12 months grad school to get one. 



> Criteria
> 
> A medical graduate can be registered in the Canadian Medical Register provided he or she has successfully completed:
> 
>  •the Qualifying Examination prior to Jan. 1, 1992, and upon submitting evidence in the form determined by the Executive Director that the candidate has satisfactorily completed *at least twelve months of acceptable postgraduate training or an acceptable equivalent*; or
>  •the MCCQE Part I and the MCCQE Part II.


Probably why medical pubs won't accept his articles.

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## eduardo89

> Dr Moulden's education background is psychiatry- not medicine.


Psychiatry is a branch of medicine. To a psychiatrist in the US you must first get a medical degree followed by practice as a psychiatric resident for another four years. The requirements are the same in Canada except that the residency is 5 years long.

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## Working Poor

I eat my nuts and berries take my co q 10 and avoid vaccines at all cost. But, if you think you might be having a heart attack or stoke take an aspirin(make sure you have some on hand) it could save your life but don't tell nobody cause emergency rooms make big money on treating stroke and heart attack...

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## donnay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC4c5UdYPUk 

There is more after this video just follow...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32D_n...bbo3LKcRMxO_th







> Stroke after Vaccination in United States. A Report from the CDC/FDA Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. [1990–2010] (P01.009) 
> Zaid Al Qudah1, Wael Abukwaik2 and Nizar Souayah3
> 1 New Jersey Medical School Newark NJ 
> 2 New Jersey Medical School Newark NJ 
> 3 New Jersey Medical School Westfield NJ 
> 
> Objective: To determine the rate and characteristics of the occurrence of acute stroke after administration of vaccination in the United States. 
> 
> Background There are several reports of stroke after vaccination. 
> ...


http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content...tracts/P01.009





> Vaccine caused Ischemic Strokes 
> 
> "M.A.S.S. is an acronym for many chronic illnesses and diseases that impair blood flow “Moulden Anoxia Spectrum Syndromes.” One-size-fits-all global vaccination schemes have created M.A.S.S. disorders on MASS scales. MASS disorders, from infectious diseases to vaccinations, have a common sequence of injuries which includes impaired blood flow, oxygenation, blood carrying capacity, and non-specific immune hyper-stimulation.”   Andrew Moulden MD, PhD
> 
> "Silent MASS ischemic strokes is how the body caused paralysis and respiratory failure from wild polio virus exposure. This is how death occurred from Smallpox. This is how swine flu vaccine caused paralysis and Guillain-Barre syndrome. This is how thalidomide caused infants to be born with no arms and legs. This is how a series of anthrax vaccines causes military veterans to give birth to children with no arms and legs 18 months after receiving the vaccine series. This is how Vioxx caused heart attack and stroke. This is how pre-natal German measles caused autism-spectrum and organ damages. This is how a systemic drop in maternal blood pressure, during gestation, causes Mobius syndrome (and autism-spectrum). This is how repeat vaccination is causing dementia."   Andrew Moulden MD, PhD
> 
> Every time you "vaccinate" you cause mini-strokes. Not good folks, not good.


http://healthyprotocols.com/2_Dr_Moulden.htm


*Girl has stroke after chickenpox. Can vaccines produce same effect?*
http://vactruth.com/2009/11/23/girl-...e-same-effect/

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## Zippyjuan

> Psychiatry is a branch of medicine. To a psychiatrist in the US you must first get a medical degree followed by practice as a psychiatric resident for another four years. The requirements are the same in Canada except that the residency is 5 years long.



He never did any residency. He ran for parliament instead. He has claimed he can tell if your kid will die from SIDS just by looking at pictures of the child. Send him pictures and money and he will cure it from afar. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Moulden

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## angelatc

> I eat my nuts and berries take my co q 10 and avoid vaccines at all cost. But, if you think you might be having a heart attack or stoke take an aspirin(make sure you have some on hand) it could save your life but don't tell nobody cause emergency rooms make big money on treating stroke and heart attack...


Well, when he thinks you're having a heart attack or a stroke, the 911 operator tells you to chew aspirin,  so at least the government isn't completely in on The Conspiracy.   And They started my husband on aspirin therapy while he was still in the hospital.

Are you believing that you can take aspirin after a heart attack or stroke and be just fine? Damn, if only DH had chewed faster...

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## angelatc

> He never did any residency. He ran for parliament instead. He has claimed he can tell if your kid will die from SIDS just by looking at pictures of the child. Send him pictures and money and he will cure it from afar. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Moulden


When I saw the video above that shows him saying that polio is actually just being rebranded as meningitis, I honestly had to look to see if you posted had a video mocking him.  

Gee, no reason to think there wasn't something wrong with the science in his rejected paper....

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## donnay

*Minimum of 40 Children Paralyzed After New Meningitis Vaccine*
http://www.whale.to/v/minimum_of_40.html

*Video Footage Shows Prime Minister Visits Paralyzed Children, Powerful Groups Involved in Vaccine Campaign*
http://www.whale.to/v/video_footage.html

*Bill Gates – Buying Immortality In History – By Beating An Already Beaten Disease & Killing Kids*
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.c...-killing-kids/

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