# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  Lookie What They Are Prepping For Tampa.

## Revolution9

Bring ear plugs for the sonic cannons, baking soda in a kerchief for the gas, hockey pads under the clothes wouldn't be a bad idea if the clothes were not shorts and a tshirt. The "other team" will be protesting there and is sure to catch our people up in their shenanigans.

So..how do you calm the local jackboots and whatcha gonna do with some foreign troops? I am inclined to give them furrinners the big middle finger myself.

Rev9

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## Todd

and just look at the drooling spectators watching foreign soldiers training American tactics on American soil not realizing they could be watching our demise.

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## Veteran Citizen

It was a conference, not a deployment.  It was a demo.  Cool too.  

BTW, baking soda will help neutralize the pepper spray burning on skin, but it's not gonna help block it being breathed in. 

Be safe.

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## S.Shorland

I'm more worried about adam kokesh than 'foreign' troops.(not american here)

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## neverseen

Looks like there is a mayor and sheriff that needs to be voted out of office... hmmm

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## donnay

There will be no dissent around Tampa.

Martial law for at least ten city blocks and anybody who steps out of line for a split second, arrested.

Where are the barbed wire enclosed "free speech zones"?

Ah, freedom.

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## LibertyEagle

> Looks like there is a mayor and sheriff that needs to be voted out of office... hmmm


Bingo.

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## cheapseats

> Looks like there is a mayor and sheriff that needs to be voted out of office... hmmm



IF that occurs as a result of this OBVIOUS suppression of dissent, it will FOR SURE not happen before the Convention.

Not even MIRACLE THEORY applies here.

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## neverseen

> IF that occurs as a result of this OBVIOUS suppression of dissent, it will FOR SURE not happen before the Convention.
> 
> Not even MIRACLE THEORY applies here.


5 min from tampa, across the bay, Liberty Sheriff Everett Rice is taking over and will win big in the elections... Pinellas is a VERY Ron Paul county compared to the rest of FL though... Still, the RP people are getting fully infiltrated into Hillsborough (tampa) and will have a shot at replacing a lot of people.  The mayor of Tampa is blue if i recall.

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## cheapseats

*APRIL 2012*




> Calling us a cult is just the newest attack on us, because we are uncompromising in our principles, aka we won't vote for Flip Flopney if he's the nominee.     All we have to do is dismiss it out of hand and argue the facts.  Did they call people who quoted Franklin, or Jefferson, or Madison, or Paine, idol worshipers or a cult?    It's ridiculous.  That kind of attack will only work on us if we let it.   It's the dumbest tactic they've tried yet.   Please.  Do you operate out of fear, because I certainly do not!







> It is NOT new.
> 
> I do NOT return to discourage but to warn, please bear with me.







> http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...ama/54233850/1
> 
> Video at link, which I have not viewed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> ...


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...mpa+Clean+Zone

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## cheapseats

> 5 min from tampa, across the bay, Liberty Sheriff Everett Rice is taking over and will win big in the elections... Pinellas is a VERY Ron Paul county compared to the rest of FL though... Still, the RP people are getting fully infiltrated into Hillsborough (tampa) and will have a shot at replacing a lot of people.  The mayor of Tampa is blue if i recall.



Excellent.  

HOWEVER,




> IF that occurs as a result of this OBVIOUS suppression of dissent, it will FOR SURE not happen before the Convention.
> 
> Not even MIRACLE THEORY applies here.

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## cheapseats

*APRIL 2012*





> Cheapseats, we're having a festival, we're not protesting anything.  The clean zone ordinance has to do with demonstrations and protests, etc.
> 
> The Veterans are marching AFTER our event.  They are a separate event.  The clean zone may apply to them.








> Deborah K,
> 
> I am not trying to undermine your festival.
> 
> I am PASSING ALONG PERTINENT INFORMATION to people who are NOT likely to be in a festive mood, come August.  I anticipate there BEING some.  You?
> 
> Do you anticipate NO arrests, for ANYTHING . . . not even for, say, Public Drunkenness or violation of some unknown "law"?







> http://fairgrounds.wtsp.com/news/new...ion-protesters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Mayor wants zone to control GOP Convention protesters
> 
> ...

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## cheapseats

*APRIL 2012*





> As you stated in the OP, you believe this event could potentially influence the unbound convention delegates.  What are your contingency plans for the event if Romney secures the nomination by winning enough bound delegates prior to the RNC, or what are your plans if Paul drops out, suspends or goes 3rd party?






> This implies that our movement is over just because Romney gets annointed by the RNC.







> We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.  The festival is going on, and if it goes according to plan, then people who aren't in the movement now will get exposure to it by attending to see their favorite celebrities, musicians, comedians, etc.







> I don't understand anyone questioning this event or doubting the intentions of the organizers. Deb has been ACTIVELY involved since day one of these forums and has influenced and motivated tons of people to the cause of Liberty. Any negativity on this thread leads people to question THOSE intentions, not those who are organizing/supporting this event. 
> 
> There are folks around here who post absolutely nothing positive to forward our cause. They question everything others do, while subtly making suggestions that many feel are COUNTER productive to our activities. Why?

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## Origanalist

"Clean Zone".

 Orwellian double speak, there will be nothing clean about what these people do to creat their impression of clean for the media.

"Masks 
Ropes, chains, and locks 
Glass bottles 
Gas masks 
Barricades 
Camping 
Public urination 
Rappelling"

Rappelling?

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## cheapseats

*APRIL 2012*





> http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgo...ention/1223612
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Tampa council delays vote on 'Clean Zone' protest rules for GOP convention
> 
> ...


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...mpa+Clean+Zone






> Hah!  It appears the city council opened up a can of worms.  LOL!

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> "Clean Zone".
> 
> ...
> 
> Public urination



Guess I'm going to have to make some new plans.

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## talkingpointes

> It was a conference, not a deployment.  It was a demo.  Cool too.  
> 
> BTW, baking soda will help neutralize the pepper spray burning on skin, but it's not gonna help block it being breathed in. 
> 
> Be safe.


Tennis rackets will hit the cans of tear gas back at the police too.

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## libertyfanatic

> 5 min from tampa, across the bay, Liberty Sheriff Everett Rice is taking over and will win big in the elections... Pinellas is a VERY Ron Paul county compared to the rest of FL though... Still, the RP people are getting fully infiltrated into Hillsborough (tampa) and will have a shot at replacing a lot of people.  The mayor of Tampa is blue if i recall.


Wow! I had no idea Rice was pro-liberty. Your right, Pinellas is very pro-Paul. Lots of Paul bumper stickers.

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## Veteran Citizen

> Tennis rackets will hit the cans of tear gas back at the police too.


Tear gas canisters are a bit heavier than a tennis ball.  You'd have to catch it in the air too.   I'm thinking that's not a good plan, especially since they have masks. 

I would not try picking up the canister and serving it back to them, they can get rather hot.

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## John F Kennedy III

Everyone going needs to be more aware of their surroundings than they've ever been....ever.

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## devil21

First time Ive seen a real video showing foreign troops on US soil.

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## NoOneButPaul

Ron told us to behave... until that changes we shouldn't do anything stupid.

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## CaptainAmerica

F this $#@!.

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## CaptainAmerica

> First time Ive seen a real video showing foreign troops on US soil.


the germans have been practicing here with paratroopers for many years. we have foreign officers on our military bases

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## surf

i didn't know there was a Nato channel.... they sure made it look wonderful

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## cheapseats

> ...we shouldn't do anything stupid.



Past a certain age, NEVER is when we ought to do serious-stupid stuff (playtime-stupid is different).  Past a certain age, we oughtn't need another Mortal to delineate Right & Wrong (accurate/mistaken is different).

Tom Hanks as Forrest Gump:  "Mama always said, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES."

Here's the thing.  While it is perfectly understandable that some Liberty Lovers want Tampa to be celebratory and healing, some Liberty Lovers believe kicking the MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN can down the road to 2016 is stupid . . . even if yer gaining Stealth Delegates and State/Local Offices.  Some Freedom Fighters spy not Strategery but COWARDICE in continuing to "play politics" at this late stage.

I don't think the world ENDS on 12/21/12 but I also don't think 2012 is "just another" YEAR, much less do I think this is "just another" election.  I don't buy into "we'll get 'em in the next election" AT. ALL.

Our steadily increasing Wealth Gap defies claims that "we're gaining on them", and it MOCKS claims that "we're winning".

MONEY = POWER.

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## Dianne

LOL, Charlotte started the application process for groups that wish to march during the Democratic convention.     The applications will be reviewed, and a decision will be made as to which groups can march.     And those groups will be allowed to march in a park, blocks away from the convention so they are never seen.

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## HankXavier

"I'm more worried about Adam Kokesh"

oh puleeeeeeeeez

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## WhistlinDave

Two words.

Hidden cameras.  With live feeds.

OK that was five words.  I thought of the last 3 as I was typing.

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## devil21

> the germans have been practicing here with paratroopers for many years. we have foreign officers on our military bases


Ive never doubted that.  Just never seen it so brazenly shown on video before.

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Here's the thing.  While it is perfectly understandable that some Liberty Lovers want Tampa to be celebratory and healing, some Liberty Lovers believe kicking the MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN can down the road to 2016 is stupid . . . even if yer gaining Stealth Delegates and State/Local Offices.  Some Freedom Fighters spy not Strategery but COWARDICE in continuing to "play politics" at this late stage.


I think there's room for everyone, which is why I get peeved when people try crack on AJ followers, truthers, etc.  If we have the same end goal, no one is hurting our movement besides those slinging insults, leaving us all open for trolling, etc.  There were a fair number of people in 2008 who didn't think we'd make it to 2012.  If that were the only faction, we wouldn't be looking at 300-400 seated delegates who have a preference for Paul.  That's a big deal.  Those people should be applauded for their dedication instead of being called cowards. (By anyone, not you particularly)   It depends on what your time horizon is, and it turns out those people were right between 2008-1012.  Their willingness to work with the system leaves all of their options open.  Personally, I think smart people keep their options open until they're forced to make choices.  2016 is a long ways off.  So was 2012, with no indication Paul would even run again, and most felt he wouldn't.  

"Some Freedom Fighters" would be stupid to pick Tampa 2012 as their stand, imo.  I think there's no reason for them to be upset people are trying to take a peaceful route.  They should be happy about that and hope it finds success.

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## Revolution9

> It was a conference, not a deployment.  It was a demo.  Cool too.  
> 
> BTW, baking soda will help neutralize the pepper spray burning on skin, but it's not gonna help block it being breathed in. 
> 
> Be safe.


That is why you put it in a kerchief and breathe through the kerchief. Simple chemistry says that if it neutralizes it then pulling air through it will neutralize much of the airstream that comes in direct contact with the sodium bicarbonate.

Rev9

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## paulbot24

> That is why you put it in a kerchief and breathe through the kerchief. Simple chemistry says that if it neutralizes it then pulling air through it will neutralize much of the airstream that comes in direct contact with the sodium bicarbonate.
> 
> Rev9


Another simple chemistry method is letting several TUMS (calcium carbonate) dissolve on your sweaty kerchief and breathing through that. Should neutralize it great, just don't add a lot of water with either of these methods. A sweaty rag is perfect. Only add a pinch of cool moisture if absolutely necessary.

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## parocks

> Two words.
> 
> Hidden cameras.  With live feeds.
> 
> OK that was five words.  I thought of the last 3 as I was typing.



hidden cameras are easy live feeds are easy.  hidden cameras with live feed are tickier.

hidden cameras cost $10.  The sd card in them would cost more.

Live feed is smart phone ustream.

The primary thing that I like about Paul Fest is the fact that people can park an RV there.  There could be an RV there with hidden cameras.  People would be trained, instructed at the RV area.  "Go get a hidden camera from the hidden camera RV"

There's certainly the possibility of not helpful mass chaos "led" by Kokesh.  Kokesh does seem to enjoy and encourage fighting with cops.  I would think that our goal would be to provide compelling images to the TV people.  And get our own compelling images to upload right away to youtube.

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## parocks

> hidden cameras are easy live feeds are easy.  hidden cameras with live feed are tickier.
> 
> hidden cameras cost $10.  The sd card in them would cost more.
> 
> Live feed is smart phone ustream.
> 
> The primary thing that I like about Paul Fest is the fact that people can park an RV there.  There could be an RV there with hidden cameras.  People would be trained, instructed at the RV area.  "Go get a hidden camera from the hidden camera RV"
> 
> There's certainly the possibility of not helpful mass chaos "led" by Kokesh.  Kokesh does seem to enjoy and encourage fighting with cops.  I would think that our goal would be to provide compelling images to the TV people.  And get our own compelling images to upload right away to youtube.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/808-11-HD-DV...item2571f15fab  - I have a lot of cams like this.  I recommend this one. of the 720P.  it's 808#11.  A good 720p with no dropped frames. $30

http://www.ebay.com/itm/808-3-DVD-Sp...item46040bc961 
This one is the best of the 480P.  $11  808#3

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## anaconda

> Ron told us to behave... until that changes we shouldn't do anything stupid.


Why doesn't Ron meet us halfway and address and condemn the police state apparatus outside the convention?

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## anaconda

How does a private group like the RNC get to have swat teams deployed all around the city?

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## Revolution9

> Another simple chemistry method is letting several TUMS (calcium carbonate) dissolve on your sweaty kerchief and breathing through that. Should neutralize it great, just don't add a lot of water with either of these methods. A sweaty rag is perfect. Only add a pinch of cool moisture if absolutely necessary.


To avoid Taser hard core shock wear a tshirt soaked with salt water. The current runs thru the line of least resistance and will dance across the shirt. The prongs still hurt though. Wonder if one of those metallic glitter shirts that Tammy Fae Baker used to wear would work..

Rev9

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## parocks

> To avoid Taser hard core shock wear a tshirt soaked with salt water. The current runs thru the line of least resistance and will dance across the shirt. The prongs still hurt though. Wonder if one of those metallic glitter shirts that Tammy Fae Baker used to wear would work..
> 
> Rev9


yeah. armor.

How about thinking about special clothing designed for this?  Metallized mylar / emergency blanket, clothes made of this.  

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CJEBEPMCMAA

would the aluminized protect against tazers?  one thing interesting about these emergency blankets is that they are transparent, even if metallized.  They're like window film.  you cover your face with them, you can see out, through them, but they can't see in.  Also, some window film will provide a pretty good seal over the eyes, if people are worried about something
 effecting the eyes.  I don't think the emergency blanket mylar / aluminum will provide a seal.  You could just have duct tape though, and tape the blanket up

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...9NYG7AEX3BSVPC  - 80 cents a piece.
these can fit in your pocket.  you get it, at the Tampa Fairgrounds, grassroots central, you open it up, then you tape 2 sides so it's like a sleeping bag - dimensions 42 inches across, 54 inches tall.  5.2 tall would be just about right.  42 inches across seems just about right too.  You'd have enough room to use a smart phone in there, and you can video in there as well, through the metalized mylar.  Can use a string at the waist to keep bad air from getting up beyond the waist.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Emergency...item20c3510d06  66 cents a piece

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## alucard13mmfmj

didn't gaddhafi do something similar? gaddhafi hired outside african mercenaries outside of libya to quell the islamist threat. soldiers from another country will more likely fire on the people of that country. 

that is why 70%+ of US troops wont fire on Americans. Which is a big problem for the elite/bankers.

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## paulbot24

> To avoid Taser hard core shock wear a tshirt soaked with salt water. The current runs thru the line of least resistance and will dance across the shirt. The prongs still hurt though. Wonder if one of those metallic glitter shirts that Tammy Fae Baker used to wear would work..
> 
> Rev9


Another way to avoid Taser shock is to use an object to block  the prongs. Umbrellas made  out of nylon with plastic shafts would be excellent. Use  a wood or  plastic handle to reduce conductivity. Be sure to wrap the  handle  with several layers of electrical tape as well. I wonder if Tammy Fae Baker has a stylish yet affordable line of umbrellas that would be appropriate. Maybe Rev9 would know. lol

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## SpiritOf1776_J4

> didn't gaddhafi do something similar? gaddhafi hired outside african mercenaries outside of libya to quell the islamist threat. soldiers from another country will more likely fire on the people of that country. 
> 
> that is why 70%+ of US troops wont fire on Americans. Which is a big problem for the elite/bankers.


They employed German merceneries against the founders during the Revolution.

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## SpiritOf1776_J4

Of course, I am hoping you are are planning the money bomb for the* biggest media blitz ever* ad campaign right before the convention, where we get to set the stage not them.

Ideas need to be in letters, pamplets, and ads, like our founding father's protested, not meanigless protests with rocks and fists that makes the ESTABLISHMENT look good.

*Nail them where it hurts - their stinking ideas.*

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## Matthew Zak

Jesus Christ that makes my blood boil.

Share this if your blood is boiling, too.

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## Revolution9

> Another way to avoid Taser shock is to use an object to block  the prongs. Umbrellas made  out of nylon with plastic shafts would be excellent. Use  a wood or  plastic handle to reduce conductivity. Be sure to wrap the  handle  with several layers of electrical tape as well. I wonder if Tammy Fae Baker has a stylish yet affordable line of umbrellas that would be appropriate. Maybe Rev9 would know. lol


You need a derby to wield an umbrella effectively. You can always use one of the OWS protestors to block the prongs. They too are made of plastic shafts and are best handled with windings of electrical tape around them.

HTH
Rev9

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## Working Poor

> How does a private group like the RNC get to have swat teams deployed all around the city?



I did not hear anything mentioned in the video that these troops are going to be there for RNC did I miss something?

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## pacelli

Those guys didn't give a damn about cover.  But the Army PIO told us more operations "in the americas" and around the world in the future.  He said that was their goal.

Anybody else see those guys dangling from the chopper and think, "I wonder what kind of modern art it would resemble if they splattered all over the side of one of those buildings?"

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I did not hear anything mentioned in the video that these troops are going to be there for RNC did I miss something?


I don't believe they said anything like that in the video, but it's easy to suspect the timing and location are not coincidental.  They have planned a serious overload of force in Tampa without foreign troops.

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## Athan

> It was a conference, not a deployment.  It was a demo.  Cool too.  
> 
> BTW, baking soda will help neutralize the pepper spray burning on skin, but it's not gonna help block it being breathed in. 
> 
> Be safe.


We absolutely need to have a private security firm for our people. If we can't get one ourselves we should hire out for the service this time around. We can't just have them being bullied with no physical buffer.

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## RonRules

Just curious to know:

Are all those foreign military people required to get a visa before entering the United States or are they just whisked in with no questions asked?

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## zachrbroussard

I see a military show, almost like an air show... and people in these forums jump to thinking they are mercenaries brought in to quell RP supporters at RNC?



FFS people....

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## opinionatedfool

I know, "Let build and create amazing war machines and tactics, then tell everyone else in the world how to do it. That way we'll have to create bigger and better machines and tactics so we can keep the military industrial complex running with as large amount of money as possible."

Genius.

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## WhistlinDave

I think as long as everyone stays mellow, there isn't going to be any trouble.  They will probably have police present but I don't think there will be riot cops or SWAT or anything there unless a riot actually breaks out first.

That being said, I hope everyone--ESPECIALLY DELEGATES--do NOT indulge their Liberty too much during Paulfest.  I think the GOP is just waiting for Paulfest people to have just a little too much fun, get a little too drunk, get caught smoking weed, or whatever, to give cops a reason to start arresting people.

The GOP would love to lock up as many Ron Paul supporters as they can before the convention, delegates or not.  Anyone going, please be smart and stay mellow, and encourage others to do the same.  

Be aware of the police, but don't protest their presence or be unruly just for the sake of making a statement.  If the police aren't in anyone's face causing trouble, don't give them any reason to.  If everyone is peaceful and goes about their business lawfully then there shouldn't be any reason why the whole thing can go down without so much as a ticket being written.

In order to do any good, the Revolution must be a peaceful one that happens inside the convention!!!!!!!

The GOP has been manipulating the media and the public with this image of Ron Paul supporters as anarchists who like to cause conflict and chaos.  We all know that's a load of manure.

Please prove them wrong at Paulfest!!!!  Thank you...

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## Mr. Perfidy

When I see cops lined up at protests, I always wonder why the protesters do not lasso a few of them, drag them into their own ranks, and strip them of all their fun hardware.  You would need some kinda winch or pully system on a truck or something I guess.

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## romancito

No one says that we can't improve of good Chinese and North Korean control tactics. After all we always have to be the best at everything. Since my Congressman is running unopposed he can't care less.

Just behave like good Chinese, North Korean or Cuban or Iranian and you should have nothing to fear about. Or Egyptian.

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## romancito

> I think as long as everyone stays mellow, there isn't going to be any trouble.  They will probably have police present but I don't think there will be riot cops or SWAT or anything there unless a riot actually breaks out first.
> 
> That being said, I hope everyone--ESPECIALLY DELEGATES--do NOT indulge their Liberty too much during Paulfest.  I think the GOP is just waiting for Paulfest people to have just a little too much fun, get a little too drunk, get caught smoking weed, or whatever, to give cops a reason to start arresting people.
> 
> The GOP would love to lock up as many Ron Paul supporters as they can before the convention, delegates or not.  Anyone going, please be smart and stay mellow, and encourage others to do the same.  
> 
> Be aware of the police, but don't protest their presence or be unruly just for the sake of making a statement.  If the police aren't in anyone's face causing trouble, don't give them any reason to.  If everyone is peaceful and goes about their business lawfully then there shouldn't be any reason why the whole thing can go down without so much as a ticket being written.
> 
> In order to do any good, the Revolution must be a peaceful one that happens inside the convention!!!!!!!
> ...


Good advise. After all police own the country now and that is really good advise. Don't forget to contribute towards a good retirement pension for them.

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## musicmax

> That being said, I hope everyone--ESPECIALLY DELEGATES--do NOT indulge their Liberty too much during Paulfest.  I think the GOP is just waiting for Paulfest people to have just a little too much fun, get a little too drunk, get caught smoking weed, or whatever, to give cops a reason to start arresting people.
> 
> The GOP would love to lock up as many Ron Paul supporters as they can before the convention, delegates or not.  Anyone going, please be smart and stay mellow, and encourage others to do the same.


Agreed. I think any delegate or alternate who gets within ten miles of these "counter-conventions" is just asking for an excuse to be locked up and thus denied access to the RNC.  As we've seen with the rash of "terrorist arrests" most involved infiltration by .gov agent provocateurs.  No doubt there will be .gov goons in Tampa trying to incite something.

Delegates/alternates: avoid PaulFest.  Stay in your hotels, take the bus to the arena, vote your conscience, go back to your hotels.

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## jbauer

Screw the boys in blue.  Attention Government, put this in my file

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## devil21

> I see a military show, almost like an air show... and people in these forums jump to thinking they are mercenaries brought in to quell RP supporters at RNC?
> 
> 
> 
> FFS people....


I must have missed the post that said this had anything to do with quell RP supporters.  Quote please?

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## donnay

LOL

Whistlin - _Past the Graveyard_ - Dave.





> *I think as long as everyone stays mellow, there isn't going to be any trouble.  They will probably have police present but I don't think there will be riot cops or SWAT or anything there unless a riot actually breaks out first.*
> 
> That being said, I hope everyone--ESPECIALLY DELEGATES--do NOT indulge their Liberty too much during Paulfest.  I think the GOP is just waiting for Paulfest people to have just a little too much fun, get a little too drunk, get caught smoking weed, or whatever, to give cops a reason to start arresting people.
> 
> The GOP would love to lock up as many Ron Paul supporters as they can before the convention, delegates or not.  Anyone going, please be smart and stay mellow, and encourage others to do the same.  
> 
> Be aware of the police, but don't protest their presence or be unruly just for the sake of making a statement.  If the police aren't in anyone's face causing trouble, don't give them any reason to.  If everyone is peaceful and goes about their business lawfully then there shouldn't be any reason why the whole thing can go down without so much as a ticket being written.
> 
> In order to do any good, the Revolution must be a peaceful one that happens inside the convention!!!!!!!
> ...

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## Travlyr

> Bring ear plugs for the sonic cannons, baking soda in a kerchief for the gas, hockey pads under the clothes wouldn't be a bad idea if the clothes were not shorts and a tshirt. The "other team" will be protesting there and is sure to catch our people up in their shenanigans.
> 
> So..how do you calm the local jackboots and whatcha gonna do with some foreign troops? I am inclined to give them furrinners the big middle finger myself.
> 
> Rev9


WOW!  Just WOW! 

I think this is why Ron started backing off a little. He saw people getting handcuffed, fingers broken, and guys with bad hips trying out their free speech getting slammed to the ground and hospitalized. And he knows that they will not let him be president of the Globalist movement anyway. Enough is Enough. Ron Paul is anti-violence.

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## donnay

> WOW!  Just WOW! 
> 
> I think this is why Ron started backing off a little. He saw people getting handcuffed, fingers broken, and guys with bad hips trying out their free speech getting slammed to the ground and hospitalized. And he knows that they will not let him be president of the Globalist movement anyway. Enough is Enough. *Ron Paul is anti-violence*.


Which is something that has both AF and myself scratching our heads about, the mixed messages.

Ron has, many times, spoken of "civil disobedience" being an "approved" method of bringing about change.

Well, what does everybody *think* happens in a police state when you "civilly disobey" or carry out non violent, passive, resistance?

You get your head thumped, you get maced, you get tased and thrown into a rape cage, if you're lucky.

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## Vet_from_cali

i honestly think a lot of you are over reacting a little bit.  watching our demise? LOL

If i was a foreign army soldier i would fear the citizens more than our military. we got some armed to the teeth patriots in the states who been waiting for the day to unload on some poor fools.  ya'll under estimating Americans itt

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## WhistlinDave

> LOL
> 
> Whistlin - _Past the Graveyard_ - Dave.


Most of the time there is no graveyard, except the ones we create for ourselves.

I think whatever expectations people have going into it will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I hope everyone goes with the intention of having a good time and enjoying a peaceful, uneventful festival.  I don't see any reason that can't happen, no matter how many cops are there to keep the peace.  If nobody starts $#@!, then nothing should happen.  I know we all forget this quite often, but there are human beings behind those badges and a LOT of them are good people who risk their lives on a daily basis to make their cities safer, and who actually believe in doing the right thing.  Not all cops are bad.  I don't even think most of them are bad.

Anyone going with the intention of some big physical revolt happening is going with intentions that are not constructive and can only lead to disaster, in my opinion.  In a riot situation, mob mentality rules and even the good cops are no longer good.  They go into survival mode just like anyone would.  (And they have the superior gear.)

I hope everyone goes with good, peaceful intentions.  Like I said, the true Revolution needs to happen inside the convention, with the delegate votes.  Not at Paulfest with riots and cops and arrests and a lot of bad publicity.  That won't accomplish anything positive and could ruin the chances of any real change happening at the convention.  And I won't apologize for saying it.

I will keep on whistling past non-existent graveyards.  Anyone who enjoys digging graves where they aren't needed, I hope you don't do it at Paulfest.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> Which is something that has both AF and myself scratching our heads about, the mixed messages.
> 
> Ron has, many times, spoken of "civil disobedience" being an "approved" method of bringing about change.
> 
> Well, what does everybody *think* happens in a police state when you "civilly disobey" or carry out non violent, passive, resistance?
> 
> You get your head thumped, you get maced, you get tased and thrown into a rape cage, if you're lucky.


If the cops aren't doing anything to anybody, and nobody is getting out of hand, there should be no need for any "resistance" either way.  The mere presence of police at a large event is normal.  Not a reason to start a political statement that will result in people getting thumped and tased!

----------


## Revolution9

> If the cops aren't doing anything to anybody, and nobody is getting out of hand, there should be no need for any "resistance" either way.  The mere presence of police at a large event is normal.  Not a reason to start a political statement that will result in people getting thumped and tased!


There are going to be  other groups in Tampa beyond us..including the ubiquitous police agent provocateurs. It is SOP.

Rev9

----------


## JK/SEA

> There are going to be  other groups in Tampa beyond us..including the ubiquitous police agent provocateurs. It is SOP.
> 
> Rev9


yep...this will be a good time for a 'teaching moment' from our 'betters'....i'm certain a fart will get you gassed, beaten, tazed, perhaps sexually molested, arrested, and sent to an unknown gulag for 'my protection'.

Of course i could be wrong and all that 'police protection' will be there to hand out daisies and candy.

----------


## coastie

> There are going to be  other groups in Tampa beyond us..including the *ubiquitous police agent provocateurs*. It is SOP.
> 
> Rev9


^This...and comments from some in this thread and others here and at other sites will surely give them their back story. The media/THE PEOPLE already have a sour taste in their collective mouths when it comes to "Ron Paul supporters"...That's why we're_ ALWAYS_ referred to as Ron Paul Supporters-never Americans, or  VOTERS. We are a separate breed, we are weirdos and cultists that are all part of Waco-style compounds throughout the US. That's the narrative they have been building for 5 years now. It's worked. Ask you're average American(over 30 yrs old) what they think happened at Waco or Ruby Ridge....ask those same people who "Ron Paul supporters" are....

I can't even begin to pretend to count the amount of times I've heard comments such as "those crazy Ron Paul supporters", "Ron Paul and his supporters are racist",'RP supporters are crazy gun-nuts," ad nauseum-_as recently as yesterday._ I heard an old lady walking through my neighborhood with one of my neighbors just recently say "I hope the government gets those crazies(us) before they can do anymore damage to our country"(while pointing at the sign in my yard) When my neighbor pointed out that I was a veteran and the house across the street with a RP sign was a disabled combat veteran(Kosovo, Bosnia), she seriously says to my neighbor-"But if they were really veterans, why on earth would they be supporting him?"( I was fixing my lawnmower in my driveway when they walked by, was too sweaty and hot to engage them, -not to mention enraged by the woman's comment that it was best I kept quiet at that moment. My neighbor likes Ron Paul, her friend-not so much.)


The public eagerly repeats what they have learned from the news, and I find most debates today are really just a battle over who can regurgitate the most from Fox News.

I was going to go to Tampa-until I found out I couldn't exercise a right the state seems to have no problem with me exercising at any other time. The government suddenly criminalizing those carrying weapons in a certain area is a sign for me to stay away from said area.

Good luck to all those attending. The narrative has been set. Get far away from those stirring up trouble.

----------


## Travlyr

Global Rulers in Action.

----------


## bcreps85

> Most of the time there is no graveyard, except the ones we create for ourselves.
> 
> I think whatever expectations people have going into it will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> I hope everyone goes with the intention of having a good time and enjoying a peaceful, uneventful festival.  I don't see any reason that can't happen, no matter how many cops are there to keep the peace.  If nobody starts $#@!, then nothing should happen.  I know we all forget this quite often, but there are human beings behind those badges and a LOT of them are good people who risk their lives on a daily basis to make their cities safer, and who actually believe in doing the right thing.  Not all cops are bad.  I don't even think most of them are bad.
> 
> Anyone going with the intention of some big physical revolt happening is going with intentions that are not constructive and can only lead to disaster, in my opinion.  In a riot situation, mob mentality rules and even the good cops are no longer good.  They go into survival mode just like anyone would.  (And they have the superior gear.)
> 
> I hope everyone goes with good, peaceful intentions.  Like I said, the true Revolution needs to happen inside the convention, with the delegate votes.  Not at Paulfest with riots and cops and arrests and a lot of bad publicity.  That won't accomplish anything positive and could ruin the chances of any real change happening at the convention.  And I won't apologize for saying it.
> ...


I have to disagree with most of this.

1.  It is more likely that agent provocateurs will do something to trigger violence and then run to their side of the line and help beat innocent people.  This happens constantly anymore and is well documented.  This is how they try to discredit anyone movement that doesn't go along with the authoritarian agenda.  The alternative media covers it in depth, the MSM ignores it so 95% of the sheople never hear a word about it.

2.  Most cops ARE bad.  That doesn't mean they all shoot unarmed citizens, or all plant drugs on people by any means, but for the most part they all cover for each other even when laws are broken.

3.  Even if #1 doesn't come to fruition, I'd be willing to bet that Santorum or Romney supporters will gladly start the violence if it disrupts us in any way.

As far as what Coastie says...one thing really sticks out in that.  People really like to sound like they know what's "going on"(by repeating media talk points, but not knowing the story behind them), so I use it against them.  When they say "man, those Ron Paul guys are crazy!", I respond with..."Really...what's so crazy about them?".  Almost every time they just stare at me with a look of unbelief...I wasn't supposed to question them; social etiquette dictates that I was simply supposed to say "Yeah man, no kidding!".  At this point they have been knocked down a peg and realized that they don't really know what they are talking about, and a real discussion can be started, since they don't want to look like an idiot again.  I've opened a few people's eyes this way.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> I have to disagree with most of this.
> 
> 1.  It is more likely that agent provocateurs will do something to trigger violence and then run to their side of the line and help beat innocent people.  This happens constantly anymore and is well documented.  This is how they try to discredit anyone movement that doesn't go along with the authoritarian agenda.  The alternative media covers it in depth, the MSM ignores it so 95% of the sheople never hear a word about it.
> 
> 2.  Most cops ARE bad.  That doesn't mean they all shoot unarmed citizens, or all plant drugs on people by any means, but for the most part they all cover for each other even when laws are broken.
> 
> 3.  Even if #1 doesn't come to fruition, I'd be willing to bet that Santorum or Romney supporters will gladly start the violence if it disrupts us in any way.
> 
> As far as what Coastie says...one thing really sticks out in that.  People really like to sound like they know what's "going on"(by repeating media talk points, but not knowing the story behind them), so I use it against them.  When they say "man, those Ron Paul guys are crazy!", I respond with..."Really...what's so crazy about them?".  Almost every time they just stare at me with a look of unbelief...I wasn't supposed to question them; social etiquette dictates that I was simply supposed to say "Yeah man, no kidding!".  At this point they have been knocked down a peg and realized that they don't really know what they are talking about, and a real discussion can be started, since they don't want to look like an idiot again.  I've opened a few people's eyes this way.



If you're right on #1 and #3, then in my opinion Paulfest is a bad idea any way you slice it, and the whole thing should be canceled.  And I don't doubt what you're saying.  I don't have any knowledge of this first hand (i.e. cops inciting violence) but I don't doubt that it happens.  Especially the possibility of Romney and/or Santorum supporters trying to instigate a riot is very real.  Some of them have already demonstrated they play dirty.

On #2, I agree most of them probably will lie to cover for each another when one of them acts illegally.  So I guess in that sense, most cops are bad cops.  But what I meant was, I don't think most cops want to beat up innocent people who are minding their own business.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> People really like to sound like they know what's "going on"(by repeating media talk points, but not knowing the story behind them), so I use it against them.  When they say "man, those Ron Paul guys are crazy!", I respond with..."Really...what's so crazy about them?".  Almost every time they just stare at me with a look of unbelief...I wasn't supposed to question them; social etiquette dictates that I was simply supposed to say "Yeah man, no kidding!".  At this point they have been knocked down a peg and realized that they don't really know what they are talking about, and a real discussion can be started, since they don't want to look like an idiot again.  I've opened a few people's eyes this way.


I use the same method at times and it's extremely easy.  Asking questions like that will disarm people and doesn't make them throw up barriers nearly as fast as providing an opposing viewpoint to start with.





> If you're right on #1 and #3, then in my opinion Paulfest is a bad idea any way you slice it, and the whole thing should be canceled.



Maybe we should take it a step further.  Everyone, please just stay in your homes.  There are police all up and down the roads waiting to stop you, search you, harass you, extract money from you directly, or jail you.  Try flying instead of driving, and we know what happens there.  

This also goes for any music festival or any event.  Not only are their provocateurs out there, but there are also other real criminals who may attempt to harm you. Seriously, it happens every day.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Everyone going needs to be more aware of their surroundings than they've ever been....ever.



Ever?   Don't know about that, but I've got three combat tours under my belt.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> First time Ive seen a real video showing foreign troops on US soil.



Yeah, there's not a whole lot of video from the revolutionary war on youtube.

Open a history book.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> That is why you put it in a kerchief and breathe through the kerchief. Simple chemistry says that if it neutralizes it then pulling air through it will neutralize much of the airstream that comes in direct contact with the sodium bicarbonate.
> 
> Rev9


OK bro.   You give that a try.  Hack up a lung if you want to.

The time that reaction occurs is something you may want to pay attention too.  Check with your local chemist, but I'm thinking that is a very bad idea, as baking soda takes too long to neutralize capsaicin.    


Good luck, yer gonna need it with that attitude.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> I did not hear anything mentioned in the video that these troops are going to be there for RNC did I miss something?



Nope.   Convention is over.   They went home.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Just curious to know:
> 
> Are all those foreign military people required to get a visa before entering the United States or are they just whisked in with no questions asked?



Nope.   They are special ops, they infiltrated the USA through our unprotected borders, and then met up with the USA special ops in Tampa........


Yes, they were authorized to enter. .......

----------


## coastie

> Ever?   Don't know about that, but I've got three combat tours under my belt.



Oh...well then I guess you can just relax then.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> When I see cops lined up at protests, I always wonder why the protesters do not lasso a few of them, drag them into their own ranks, and strip them of all their fun hardware.  You would need some kinda winch or pully system on a truck or something I guess.


Uhhhhh.  OMFG!!!

Because they have sniper overwatch?   Before you go up against an opponent, at least *TRY* to learn what they are capable of.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Oh...well then I guess you can just relax then.



I'm very relaxed.   I missed the opportunity to be a delegate.    But I will give common sense and knowledgeable advice to delegates, and attendees to the festival.

Knowledge is power.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Those guys didn't give a damn about cover.  But the Army PIO told us more operations "in the americas" and around the world in the future.  He said that was their goal.
> 
> Anybody else see those guys dangling from the chopper and think, "I wonder what kind of modern art it would resemble if they splattered all over the side of one of those buildings?"



Some of those guys are American Servicemen.  flick you.

----------


## parocks

> If you're right on #1 and #3, then in my opinion Paulfest is a bad idea any way you slice it, and the whole thing should be canceled.  And I don't doubt what you're saying.  I don't have any knowledge of this first hand (i.e. cops inciting violence) but I don't doubt that it happens.  Especially the possibility of Romney and/or Santorum supporters trying to instigate a riot is very real.  Some of them have already demonstrated they play dirty.
> 
> On #2, I agree most of them probably will lie to cover for each another when one of them acts illegally.  So I guess in that sense, most cops are bad cops.  But what I meant was, I don't think most cops want to beat up innocent people who are minding their own business.



You have  

1) The streets in Tampa surrounding the place where the convention is

2) Paul Fest.

1) - the streets.  could be dangerous.  that's where protests typically take place.  that's where people who want trouble will go to get it.  I don't know how many people there will be there, but that's where the danger is.

2) Paul Festival.  No reason to think there will be any trouble there at all.  It's not really close to the convention.  From what I'm seeing, it's not going to be extremely well attended.  I think it will be a nice thing.  I like 7 days of RV parking at the Tampa Fairgrounds.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

OK, I'm out for a while guys.   I'm trying to help.  If you want information on what the current capabilities of the opposition is capable of, I happen to know.  I've used the tools in Iraq, and even before that to break up demonstrations.   The main goal is to change your mind.   You might think you want a certain political or public relations thing to be the most important thing in the world, you would even consider dying for it.....  But when you cannot breath, or you skin begins to burn, you'll change your mind.

Y'all do what you want to do in Tampa, have a good time, be safe.   Run like hell if you start hearing firecrackers.   (that's what it sounds like when bullets go by).

Talk to a few guys that have been there before you go there.

----------


## coastie

> Some of those guys are American Servicemen.  flick you.



I'm pretty sure the poster meant in the context of them if they were operating as they are *NOT* supposed to in this country. But you knew that, seems you may have an axe to grind....



 American servicemen or not, I have no pity for what may happen to them if they are violating their oath to the constitution(as they ALL currently are, but that's another thread), ESPECIALLY if they are on US soil.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> I'm pretty sure the poster meant in the context of them if they were operating as they are *NOT* supposed to in this country. But you knew that, seems you may have an axe to grind....
> 
> 
> 
>  American servicemen or not, I have no pity for what may happen to them if they are violating their oath to the constitution(as they ALL currently are, but that's another thread), ESPECIALLY if they are on US soil.


So, for damning them without proof that they violated one iota of their oath, flick you and yer mother too.

----------


## coastie

> So, for damning them without proof that they violated one iota of their oath, flick you and yer mother too.





> So, for damning them without proof that they violated one iota of their oath, flick you and yer mother too.


Intelligent response. Since you started calling me and my mother names, I guess the gloves are off and now I may just hurt your feelings.


 I have proof. Fighting in an unconstitutional war=violating your oath. It's pretty simple.

 I have witnessed it with my own eyes while in a Federal Law Enforcement and Homeland Security operations in the USCG capacity for nearly 9 years, working with ALL branches during that time, and it could be argued I've violated my oath a time or three. My combat experienced personal friends, are they all lying to me? My own eyes and what I have seen and done, are they lying to me?

I've heard the likes of you denigrate "civilians" as somehow lesser than you because you "serve" and they don't so many times I swear I'm gonna puke all over the next one I hear within earshot say it.....I only mention this point because you've mentioned you're a combat vet no less than three times already in this thread, when it had no bearing whatsoever in the conversation at the time. Get over yourself, you being dumb enough to enlist in the first place puts any and all happenings after that squarely in your lap, got it? So don't be surprised when nobody gives a $#@!. And yes, I would say this to your face, ALL of my combat vet friends are WELL AWARE of where I stand on this issue. Go to my youtube channel in my sig, the I Wanna Be President song was wrote by a two time Purple Heart disabled Combat vet-and used with his complete permission and input on the video.

Nothing you -or I, or he- ever did while in the "service" did anything for anyone in this country except for a very few people-and you and I cannot join their club, but we can damn sure fight to protect it. 

And yes, damn all of them. Without them, there would be no wars. Period. It is they who are doing things over there that put my family and  I in the real danger, there's a difference between *saying* you're defending freedom, and actually doing it. I have a feeling you are of the former type,as I knew you'd respond the way you did to my post, it was so predictable just from your couple of comments before I even bothered responding to you.

I'm not questioning you or anyone else whose been in combats' heroism or patriotism...but it was by choice you ended up there, blind nationalism or patriotism at the time is no excuse, even for myself and my enlistment. It is without question men of all ages in this country would rise the $#@! up and handle business-IF WE WERE UNDER A LEGITIMATE ATTACK. Joining the military since after WWII , though? Nah...... I've got nothing for ya, myself included.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

I've never killed anyone that wasn't trying to kill me first.  My first priority was to treat the wounded.  Both sides. A medic has to do what a medic has to do.

No apologies to you or yer mother.


Get a grip on reality, and see the demonstration as what it was, a demonstration.

----------


## coastie

> *I've never killed anyone that wasn't trying to kill me first.*  My first priority was to treat the wounded.  Both sides. A medic has to do what a medic has to do.
> 
> No apologies to you or yer mother.
> 
> 
> Get a grip on reality, and see the demonstration as what it was, a demonstration.


You were trying to kill them first by proxy of dropping your ass into their country. There is only one purpose for a military. Just because you "only" picked up the pieces doesn't make you anymore of a saint in my eyes.

I do have a grip on reality-what do you think the whole point of a DEMONSTRATION is, maybe to DEMONSTRATE something? There is NO REASON to have our Special Ops training w/ another Special Ops Force that is in concert with our national security. NONE. That makes the OPS not so SPECIAL anymore. The ONLY reason they would be training like this, is to eventually turn the guns on us.* Foreign soldiers are sure to kill a civilian population helluva lot faster than the domestic soldier would, but you already know that.*


Enough of derailing this thread./

----------


## Anti Federalist

Hmmm...

Sublymnal or azxd?

So hard to decide.

----------


## QuickZ06

> Knowledge is power.


Yes, knowledge is power. But you lack both.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> You were trying to kill them first by proxy of dropping your ass into their country. There is only one purpose for a military. Just because you "only" picked up the pieces doesn't make you anymore of a saint in my eyes.
> 
> I do have a grip on reality-what do you think the whole point of a DEMONSTRATION is, maybe to DEMONSTRATE something? There is NO REASON to have our Special Ops training w/ another Special Ops Force that is in concert with our national security. NONE. That makes the OPS not so SPECIAL anymore. *The ONLY reason they would be training like this, is to eventually turn the guns on us*.* Foreign soldiers are sure to kill a civilian population helluva lot faster than the domestic soldier would, but you already know that.*
> 
> 
> Enough of derailing this thread./


No bro, we ain't done yet.

I've never ended a life of a person that wasn't trying to end mine, except for meat.  I was where I was, with huge red crosses on my vehicle, to care for the wounded.  I did that, and when people tried to kill me, I tried to kill them back.   I'm still here.   Zero sympathy or empathy from me on that issue.   I never started crap, but I have finished crap.  I sleep very well at night.    Some now what a real fight looks like, then there is you.


This demo has not demonstrated anything close to foreign military wanting to kill you.   If it does happen, have your family send us a message, and we'll be pissed off.    Till then, you are only fantasizing about your own delusions of grandeur.    Those guys in the video are home.   If they kill you, I'll be just as pissed off as the rest of us.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Yes, knowledge is power. But you lack both.



And just how would you know that?   No, seriously, just how would you know?   I've been around.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Yes, knowledge is power. But you lack both.



And just how would you know that?   No, seriously, just how would you know?   I've been around.

----------


## JK/SEA

> And just how would you know that?   No, seriously, just how would you know?   I've been around.


It's more of a primal instinct. Kinda like when a heard of buffalo start stampeding when one of the heard senses danger, they all react at once. Sometimes it's nothing, other times it's a pack of wolves. When you live in a world of  rabid police state mother-$#@!ers, i personally would respect that warning from that alert buffalo. Everytime. And eff your mother back you gutless punk.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> It's more of a primal instinct. Kinda like when a heard of buffalo start stampeding when one of the heard senses danger, they all react at once. Sometimes it's nothing, other times it's a pack of wolves. When you live in a world of a rabid police state mother-$#@!ers, i personally would respect that warning from that alert buffalo. Everytime. And eff your mother back you gutless punk.


I'm interested in winning.  That's all.   Either Ron Paul will be the nominee or not.  If not, let's get as much as we can.  Tomorrow is another day.


Gutless?   Where were you when the real $#@! was hitting the fan?   Hiding under a bed or sucking your surrogate mothers tit I'd guess.





I volunteered to go there to help our servicemen, I was only interested in that, but did what I had to do to take care of them, and come home.

----------


## Mini-Me

Although I disagree with his general point of view on soldiers, I can see why Veteran Citizen is being defensive here:  He was in a foreign country as a medic, and he treated the wounded on BOTH sides.  Although he was there as part of the US military, treating wounded on both sides meant he took on a much more neutral or positive influence than someone who only treated US soldiers (which could be cynically viewed as aiding and abetting hostile invaders).  You can grumble about him going on the taxpayer dime instead of his own, but that puts him in the "tax feeder" category at worst, not the "violent oppressor" category, meaning he really did nothing wrong (that we know of) with respect to the people of a foreign country.  (Remember that it would be totally kosher for individuals to travel to a foreign country for humanitarian reasons anyway.  Nationalists might argue about a foreign state's control over immigration and travel, but libertarians couldn't. )

I'd say that makes him something of an exception to the rule when it comes to soldiers, but he seems to be projecting his own role onto other soldiers, identifying with them, and taking it personally when the morality of their quite different typical role is questioned or condemned.  He took it as a personal attack and retaliated with insults...I think that was his mistake, but returning insults and escalating the hostility isn't really going to help anything.

I can understand where all of you guys are coming from, so would it really be that hard for you guys to come to a civil understanding with each other as well?  We're all on the same side here, so a chill pill may be in order.  You can disagree on who has the right attitude toward soldiers without hating each other...or each other's mothers.

----------


## Veteran Citizen

> Although I disagree with his general point of view on soldiers, I can see why Veteran Citizen is being defensive here:  He was in a foreign country as a medic, and he treated the wounded on BOTH sides.  Although he was there as part of the US military, treating wounded on both sides meant he took on a much more neutral or positive influence than someone who only treated US soldiers (which could be cynically viewed as aiding and abetting hostile invaders).  You can grumble about him going on the taxpayer dime instead of his own, but that puts him in the "tax feeder" category at worst, not the "violent oppressor" category, meaning he really did nothing wrong (that we know of) with respect to the people of a foreign country.  (Remember that it would be totally kosher for individuals to travel to a foreign country for humanitarian reasons anyway.  Nationalists might argue about a foreign state's control over immigration and travel, but libertarians couldn't. )
> 
> I'd say that makes him something of an exception to the rule when it comes to soldiers, but he seems to be projecting his own role onto other soldiers, identifying with them, and taking it personally when the morality of their quite different typical role is questioned or condemned.  He took it as a personal attack and retaliated with insults...I think that was his mistake, but returning insults and escalating the hostility isn't really going to help anything.
> 
> I can understand where all of you guys are coming from, so would it really be that hard for you guys to come to a civil understanding with each other as well?  We're all on the same side here, so a chill pill may be in order.  You can disagree on who has the right attitude toward soldiers without hating each other...or each other's mothers.



Grrrrrr.    I may be able to calm down a bit.   It'll take a while.    I learned to respect Soldiers greatly being one of them, and watching them endure great hardship and separation from their families.   I never met a jack booted thug among them, but met many patriots.   

Ima still gonna get bent when some asshat fantasizes while fapping at home, safe and secure due to the efforts of better men that those that spawned him,  about what it would look like if one of those guys got killed. His grandmother probably swam out to meet returning troop ships, and he's still ticked about it. 



Our military supports Ron Paul, and it's not too much to ask to return the favor.

----------


## coastie

> I'm interested in winning.  That's all.   Either Ron Paul will be the nominee or not.  If not, let's get as much as we can.  Tomorrow is another day.
> 
> 
> Gutless?  * Where were you when the real $#@! was hitting the fan?   Hiding under a bed or sucking your surrogate mothers tit I'd guess.*



NOBODY CARES WHY YOU WERE IN THE WAR(S)!!!! There you go, AGAIN with you're "I'm better than because I went off to war BY MY OWN CHOICE FOR A USELESS $#@!ING REASON, nanner nanner nanner, so your opinion means $#@!, flick yer mother, naner nanner nanner."


What "real $#@! hitting the fan"?-the $#@! *you* inserted *yourself* into? Because it sure hasn't "hit the fan" in any locale I'm aware of, and I've been around lately. The mere notion that you equate your war experience with being right is astronomically SAD, and really reveal YOUR Delusions of Grandeur.. Then, you REPEATEDLY equate said experience with intelligence-oh...never mind.

Hey everybody, I was in the USCG for 9 years, rescued several dozen people, done cpr/first aid on others for HOURS in rough ass seas with half the crew puking over the side, just to have the patient die on us, almost fell off the sides of several big ships while boarding them for no other reason than to squeeze more money out of them in some way-_and we'd find a way_-, witnessed people having their rights violated all of the time, and even been a part of it at times early in my career, I've been a part of HUGE drug busts, chased down drug boats, worked in 120*+ engine rooms on engines 50ft long-while they're running-in heaving seas, drilled for hours and days at a time in hot fire suits, pulled dead Haitians and Cubans out of the water, shackled those that were alive to the deck of a ship's flight deck in the tropical sun-with Key West in sight on the horizon so they could see where they almost got to...I'll stop now.


I could WHINE incessantly for pages and pages about the $#@! I've been through while I was in the military, and use it as some sort of back-handed slap every time says something I disagree with-but I don't. I wouldn't. I put myself there. It was ALWAYS as easy as not going. I've to grips with my experience working for the government, and quite honestly am somewhat ashamed of it, because it's INFESTED with the likes of you, who look down your nose at others who haven't been what you've been through, and it's disgusting....not because it's just a $#@!ty thing to do, no matter what your position on the social ladder-But because YOU PUT YOURSELF THERE. That's like me jumping off a bridge and becoming a para-pelagic-and then calling you a pussy for not trying it in the same spot. It doesn't matter if they didn't, this is a good thing-it is horrifying you cannot see it that way, because that is reality... because if NO ONE went, there wouldn't be any of these $#@!ing wars that breed evil spawn such as yourself.

Good day.

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## coastie

> Grrrrrr.    I may be able to calm down a bit.   It'll take a while.    I learned to respect Soldiers greatly being one of them, and watching them endure great hardship and separation from their families.   I never met a jack booted thug among them, but met many patriots.   
> 
> Ima still gonna get bent when some asshat fantasizes while fapping at home, *safe and secure due to the efforts of better men that those that spawned him,  about what it would look like if one of those guys got killed. His grandmother probably swam out to meet returning troop ships, and he's still ticked about it.* 
> 
> 
> 
> Our military supports Ron Paul, and it's not too much to ask to return the favor.


Check mate sir-you are a POS. Refer to my above post, I'm done with this thread for real(pinky swear).

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## Veteran Citizen

> Check mate sir-you are a POS. Refer to my above post, I'm done with this thread for real(pinky swear).



I worked for a living.   I wasn't a "sir".

Good riddance.

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## Veteran Citizen

> I could WHINE incessantly for pages and pages about the $#@! I've been through while I was in the military



No, really, that post was enough.

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## Mini-Me

That could have gone better.

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## tangent4ronpaul

There is a large SF presence in FL.  I am personally aware of multiple SF conferences going on in that state for about 8-10 years.  Bail on the tin foil headgear.

-t

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## Revolution9

> And just how would you know that?   No, seriously, just how would you know?   I've been around.


Yeah.. Yer own block. Yer blustering fumage and vituperative pugnacity belie the mind of a tough guy pre-pubescent trying to be a man. You ain't special pal. Get over yerself and yer aggressive BS blatherfest.

I once asked a fuming idiot like you to resolve an argument at a coffee shop about whether Israel had signed the NPT. He glared at me and said "Who the $#@! cares..I go where they send me and do what they tell me." I replied that that was not a good attitude for a soldier to have..I come from a military family. he sneered and pulled at his uniform "Yeah muthafucker..this uniform fought for your freedom." I told him him..." No it didn't. I am Canadian." With that he flew into a rage and hurled his four dollar coffe at me and proceeded to start to get something from under his uniform. Figuring I would be shot I went into the coffee shop keeping my back turned informing everybody that soldier boy is unstable. He then came up to me and stuck his wallte under my nose .showing me his MP badge. Whooppedity $#@!ing doo. He then blurted out, as someone had called the cops..that who would the cops believe..me or him.. Well I grinned and waved my hand around at the full coffee shop of punk rockers, old hippies. musicians and artists. The guy bought another coffee and slunk out. What a frikkin' idiot. Similar in attitude to you.

Just Sayin'

Rev9

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## Veteran Citizen

> Yeah.. Yer own block. Yer blustering fumage and vituperative pugnacity belie the mind of a tough guy pre-pubescent trying to be a man. You ain't special pal. Get over yerself and yer aggressive BS blatherfest.
> 
> I once asked a fuming idiot like you to resolve an argument at a coffee shop about whether Israel had signed the NPT. He glared at me and said "Who the $#@! cares..I go where they send me and do what they tell me." I replied that that was not a good attitude for a soldier to have..I come from a military family. he sneered and pulled at his uniform "Yeah muthafucker..this uniform fought for your freedom." I told him him..." No it didn't. I am Canadian." With that he flew into a rage and hurled his four dollar coffe at me and proceeded to start to get something from under his uniform. Figuring I would be shot I went into the coffee shop keeping my back turned informing everybody that soldier boy is unstable. He then came up to me and stuck his wallte under my nose .showing me his MP badge. Whooppedity $#@!ing doo. He then blurted out, as someone had called the cops..that who would the cops believe..me or him.. Well I grinned and waved my hand around at the full coffee shop of punk rockers, old hippies. musicians and artists. The guy bought another coffee and slunk out. What a frikkin' idiot. Similar in attitude to you.
> 
> Just Sayin'
> 
> Rev9




Nice story, what's it got to do with some asshat wishing that American Troops fell from helicopters?    I took offense.  No apologies. 

Not just my own block.  I'd tell you about it, but to you, it would just sound like bragging, sort of like your story there sounded to me.

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## JK/SEA

> Nice story, what's it got to do with some asshat wishing that American Troops fell from helicopters?    I took offense.  No apologies.


I didn't read anything about American troops....maybe its you that harbors fantasies about American troops getting smashed into buildings. From your tone and lack of discipline in controlling yourself, i'm guessing there must have been an attempt by someone to frag you on the battlefield. Hence your rancor. Get help.

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