# Liberty Movement > Rand Paul Forum >  [Video] Rand Paul vs. John Kerry at Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Syria 9/3/13

## tsai3904

update:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWVdXuTYlH8


---




> *THE AUTHORIZATION OF USE OF FORCE IN SYRIA*
> 
> *U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations*
> 
> Presiding:
> Senator Menendez
> 
> Date:
> Tuesday, September 03, 2013
> ...


Video (Rand comes on at 3:27:58 - 3:38:00:
http://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearin...force-in-syria

----------


## twomp

Is that 230pm est? It's not on yet.

----------


## tsai3904

> Is that 230pm est? It's not on yet.


It's tomorrow, Tuesday, at 2:30 pm ET.  Just wanted to give people a heads up.

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## twomp

i'm an idiot!!! lol sorry.

----------


## goRPaul

Big moment for Rand.  He's in a great position to prevent this war.

----------


## fearthereaperx

This is gonna be big

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## twomp

I hope Rand Paul asks if there will be "boots on the ground" in the event that Syria strikes back against us? I mean all they need to do is send one of these SS-N-26 ONYX Missiles (world's fastest hypersonic anti-ship missile) to sink one of our destroyers.

----------


## alucard13mm

> I hope Rand Paul asks if there will be "boots on the ground" in the event that Syria strikes back against us? I mean all they need to do is send one of these SS-N-26 ONYX Missiles (world's fastest hypersonic anti-ship missile) to sink one of our destroyers.


nice article. They should update their website though ;P looks a bit dated.

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## eleganz

We need a great hashtag slogan.

# ?????

----------


## tsai3904

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has been added as a witness.

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## VoluntaryAmerican

> This is gonna be big


Can someone please record this? I am not free at that time.

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## LibertyEagle

I'm sure they hate that he is on this committee.  If he was in the House of Representatives, Boehner would have kept him from it.  I wonder if this is one of the advantages of McConnell and he having a decent working relationship.

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## jct74

> Can someone please record this? I am not free at that time.


the recording should be made available somewhere on the website tsai linked in the OP, also the hearing will be also aired live on CSPAN and recorded on that website as well.
http://c-spanvideo.org/program/314822-1

----------


## fearthereaperx

> Can someone please record this? I am not free at that time.


It'll be on you tube shortly after.

----------


## supermario21

I want Rand to go after Hagel lol.

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## FSP-Rebel

> We need a great hashtag slogan.
> 
> # ?????


Absolutely, we need to get it trending on twitter like before. Depending on how things are going, it could be something along the lines of #RandPutsAmericaFirst, #RandTheBenevolent, #RandThePatriot, #RandForAmerica, #RandStands4Military, #RandTheIntelligent, #RandPutsOathFirst to name a few. brain storm it

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## 69360

> I'm sure they hate that he is on this committee.  If he was in the House of Representatives, Boehner would have kept him from it.  I wonder if this is one of the advantages of McConnell and he having a decent working relationship.


Absolutely is. There is much larger evil in the world than Mitch McConnell and it's best to just leave him alone and take advantage of the help. He's a fair weather ally and the wind is blowing this way right now.

----------


## krugminator

> I'm sure they hate that he is on this committee.  If he was in the House of Representatives, Boehner would have kept him from it.  I wonder if this is one of the advantages of McConnell and he having a decent working relationship.


Rand has said in speeches that knowing McConnell got him the spot on this committee.  Supporting McConnell is an extraordinarily small price to pay to have bullhorn during this debate and it also gave him the ability to grill Hillary during the Benghazi hearings.

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## Dianne

> Live webcast:
> http://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearin...force-in-syria


I see Obama is missing from the list of attendees..    Does he have a prior commitment; i.e., golf game?

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## Warlord

> Absolutely, we need to get it trending on twitter like before. Depending on how things are going, it could be something along the lines of #RandPutsAmericaFirst, #RandTheBenevolent, #RandThePatriot, #RandForAmerica, #RandStands4Military, #RandTheIntelligent, #RandPutsOathFirst to name a few. brain storm it


Use #StandWithRand

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## JCDenton0451

> I want Rand to go after Hagel lol.


I'm confident that privately Hagel is lobbying Obama to exercise restraint. But ultimately it's not his decision to make.

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## mosquitobite

#RandCommand

----------


## Warlord

> I'm confident that privately Hagel is lobbying Obama to exercise restraint. But ultimately it's not his decision to make.


Nonesense.

----------


## JCDenton0451

> Nonesense.


Which part?

----------


## Warlord

> Which part?


Hagel is fully on board with it. You'll see later

----------


## Cleaner44

U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations... our government sure has a hell of a way relating to foreigners... bomb them or give them billions of borrowed dollars to do our bidding.

----------


## JCDenton0451

> Hagel is fully on board with it. You'll see later


You're simply misinformed. If Hagel is some kind of a warmonger why did Bill Kristol and Sheldon Adelson launch a million dollar campaign (with TV ads in the DC area and New York Times) to prevent him from being confirmed?

----------


## hillertexas

> Use #StandWithRand


I feel like this one has legs

----------


## Warlord

> You're simply misinformed. If Hagel is some kind of a warmonger why did Bill Kristol and Sheldon Adelson launch a million dollar campaign (with TV ads in the DC area and New York Times) to prevent him from being confirmed?


Because they're foolish.

----------


## JCDenton0451

> Because they're foolish.


I bet they know more than you do. The amount of opposition Hagel faced was unprecedented for a Defence nominee. Clearly, lots of Zionists saw him as a threat. Even the Anti-Defamation League was worried. lol

----------


## supermario21

Like Rand Paul said then, it was a waste of time praising Hagel. And as we all found out, that filibuster was about Brennan.

----------


## jtstellar

> I'm confident that privately Hagel is lobbying Obama to exercise restraint. But ultimately it's not his decision to make.


ya

similar to the way senator obama and senator biden were secretly lobbying themselves from ghost of 2007, right?  it's not like politicians having a change of heart has ever been observed in human history.  you're like that abused woman who takes it in the ass but believes her man is doing it for her own good.. stockholm syndrome much?  instead of owning up to it, it's easier to insist on something no one can prove, i suppose, just always assume your abuser is constantly and secretly looking out for your own good.  i can't think of a human trait more pathetic.  and do you understand logic 101?  the burden of proof is not on us to prove a negative.  the job is on you to prove hagel is conforming secretly to your ass-taking standards in exchange for something by which you could comfortably say he is 'doing it for your own good'.

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## JCDenton0451

I'm telling you, people who question Hagel on this board are mostly Evangelicals who dislike him because he isn't pro-Israel enough.

----------


## Warlord

> I'm telling you, people who question Hagel on this board are mostly Evangelicals who dislike him because he isn't pro-Israel enough.


Hagel does what he's told. Rand was right about him. Just admit it

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## jtstellar

the battle for the soul of us foreign policy now apparently rests on hagel, whether he can secretly 'lobby' obama to change his heart.. because rand has become useless long ago apparently according to some.  

it's like rand critics are comprised of prom queens

----------


## JCDenton0451

> I'm telling you, people who question Hagel on this board are mostly  Evangelicals who dislike him because he isn't pro-Israel enough.


These same people question Mark Sanford because he isn't "moral" enough.




> Hagel does what he's told. Rand was right about him. Just admit it


You mean Ron?? Ron was right about Hagel. But Rand repeated neoconservative canards about Hagel accepting donations from Muslim terrorists and Iran. He was very wrong. This is what happens when you try to grow your tent by pandering to Jennifer Rubin. lol 

Personally, I'm willing to look past that episode, but I won't forget and I won't let _you_ forget.

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## Uriah

> Use #StandWithRand





> I feel like this one has legs


Ha!

#StandWithRand is starting to enter common usage. Keep using it.

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## fr33

That press conference was annoying. 

"It's for the children!!!!"

----------


## Warlord

> That press conference was annoying. 
> 
> "It's for the children!!!!"


Obama has killed something like 300 kids with drones

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## FSP-Rebel

https://twitter.com/8Atlas2/status/374948964572753920



> Senate Foreign Relation Cmte meets today over #Syria & Sen. Paul will grill Sec. Kerry on intel http://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearin...force-in-syria …
> #StandWithRand


RT if you're a mind to.

----------


## jct74

CNN will be airing this live as well as C-SPAN.

----------


## eduardo89

Kerry is unbelievably boring to listen to...It's been 10 minutes but it feels like an hour.

----------


## puppetmaster

Why the hell does no one bring up the ramifications of this attack if Russia or China retaliate either economicly or physically

----------


## Warlord

> Why the hell does no one bring up the ramifications of this attack if Russia or China retaliate either economicly or physically


you'll have to wait for Rand to hear any common sense #StandWithRand

----------


## presence

Between Kerry and Hagel:

Police restoring order.  War protesters.  Is it too tinfoilly to say it almost looked fake?

----------


## CaseyJones

woot code pink!

----------


## orenbus

Yea its code pink I recognized some of the protestors they are legit.

----------


## RockEnds

> woot code pink!

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## StateofTrance

Been lurking for a while but Kerry name-dropping "isolationism" a few times pissed me off. Freaking neo-cons.

----------


## COpatriot

I saw the protestors trolling Kerry too. Kerry's response was laughable.

----------


## seyferjm

F U John Kerry, "armchair isolationism" nonsense!

----------


## ObiRandKenobi

> F U John Kerry, "armchair isolationism" nonsense!


lol what a dick

----------


## jct74

this is airing on all the news cable networks... Fox, MSNBC, CNN, and CSPAN.  Big audience for Rand.

----------


## presence

Kerry want's options for "boots on the ground"

----------


## Warlord

> this is airing on all the news cable networks... Fox, MSNBC, CNN, and CSPAN.  Big audience for Rand.


could be hours before they get to him

----------


## radiofriendly

Wow, Kerry is giving the reason why this is STUPID. Need to be able to have boots on the ground incase Syria implodes...O, really? Or chemical weapons might get into the wrong hands...O really?

----------


## jtstellar

holy jesus 




> The Honorable John F. Kerry
> Secretary of State
> U.S. Department of State
> Washington, DC
> 
> The Honorable Chuck Hagel
> Secretary of Defense
> U.S. Department of Defense
> Washington, DC
> ...


did this make anyone puke in mouth as badly as i did

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

Kerry's attacks against "isolationism" aren't an accident.  They were meant for Rand and us.

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## ClydeCoulter

> Wow, Kerry is giving the reason why this is STUPID. Need to be able to have boots on the ground incase Syria implodes...O, really? Or chemical weapons might get into the wrong hands...O really?


What happened to no boot on the ground?

----------


## mike6623

Is there any way to get a current and accurate list of who in congress/senate have financial investments in companies that take defense contracts? I know back when the Iraq war came about, it was noted that some 100+ members stood to make money based on the companies they are invested in. Is this possible? I realize that, even if there were no "on record" investments, someone could easily tel a friend or family member what to do etc. But I am not comfortable with people who stand to make money off of war, voting whether or not we should go to war.




is this information obtainable?

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## fr33

> holy jesus 
> 
> 
> 
> did this make anyone puke in mouth as badly as i did


Just listening to them does.

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## COpatriot

Corker is angry that we haven't given weapons to the "vetted moderate opposition".

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## RockEnds

> What happened to no boot on the ground?


Well, there won't be.  The administration has no intention of putting boots on the ground at all.  But just in case US troops died in combat in Syria, maybe they should get prior authorization.  

*/sarcasm

----------


## Warlord

> Well, there won't be.  The administration has no intention of putting boots on the ground at all.  But just in case US troops died in combat in Syria, maybe they should get prior authorization.


That's a lie. Their AUMF lets him use the military as he see's fit so boots could be on the ground if he decides that

----------


## RockEnds

> That's a lie. Their AUMF lets him use the military as he see's fit so boots could be on the ground if he decides that


Yeah, I realized after I posted it that my sarcasm might be missed.  I edited.

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## COpatriot

Well Boxer is on board too. Same partisan horse$#@!. Menendez seemed somewhat skeptical of the language in the AUMF but I think he's on board too.

----------


## Warlord

> Yeah, I realized after I posted it that my sarcasm might be missed.  I edited.



OK i didn't pick up on it

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## supermario21

Thank you Mitch McConnell for getting Rand on the Foreign Relations Committee.

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## jtstellar

nothing more disgusting than a hag who has no concern her entire life of being summoned forth into an deteriorating military conflict calling forth others to do it

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## RockEnds

> OK i didn't pick up on it


I would be astonished if the boots aren't already on the ground tbh.

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## LibertyEagle

> I would be astonished if the boots aren't already on the ground tbh.


Oh, I'll bet money there are already some there.

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## specsaregood

> That's a lie. Their AUMF lets him use the military as he see's fit so boots could be on the ground if he decides that


Kerry weaseled his words on the no boots on the ground,  the last time, he ADDED at the end  "No boots on the ground -- *in respect to the civil war going on*"

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## ObiRandKenobi

> Well Boxer is on board too. Same partisan horse$#@!. Menendez seemed somewhat skeptical of the language in the AUMF but I think he's on board too.


lol barbara boxer

----------


## Barrex

Peasants wear boots. Soldiers wear protective footware.  INVADE INVADE INVADE!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## ClydeCoulter

I really hate these smirky ass SOB's.  Kerry, "Assad may be able to crawl out of his hole and say I survived...."  Why don't you crawl back into your hole and stay there Kerry.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Kerry, "We gonna hold you down, Assad, and punch the $#@! out of you, and if you respond the world's power will come down on you".  Won't these people just lay down and die, please? _How can such evil persist?_

----------


## ObiRandKenobi

so is rand paul allowed to talk or only if you suck up to kerry

----------


## fearthereaperx

> so is rand paul allowed to talk or only if you suck up to kerry



yea, no kidding

----------


## COpatriot

Does anyone else think the same way I do that a lot of these members of congress are gonna "come away convinced" after these hearings?

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## Beorn

Does anyone have a link to the declassified clapper dossier on the syria evidence?

I presume this is different from the "declassified" Kerry statement on the evidence which basically just said "trust us."

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> so is rand paul allowed to talk or only if you suck up to kerry


Yeah, are only neocons allowed to agree with question them?

----------


## puppetmaster

> Kerry want's options for "boots on the ground"


Yeah then the GOP will strike that part and pass the rest 
 saying look at us we won. It is all smoke and mirrors.....all lies and BS.

----------


## eduardo89

Rubio lying saying Assad supports al-Qaeda...

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Damn, they're all warhawks so far!

"So, how do we do this in such a way that we can get away with it and not piss off everyone?"

_Dang, where's the ignore Dempsey button?_

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Hah, now Kerry is using Rand's line against O, "He has no moral authority to run the country" !

----------


## puppetmaster

Funny is Israel is speaking volumes by remaining  silent......

Except for their antagonistic missle launch today.

----------


## thehungarian

"How do we send the message it's not OK to kill people? By killing people!"

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

John Kerry is so full of $#@!...


First he runs with the MeMe of scare tactics that Syria threatens Israel and Jordan... then a few minutes later, he states that Israel can handle any threats.  Let's see, how long has Assad been in power? How many times did he invade or bomb Israel and Jordan? 


Still haven't hear one word of any Senator asking US involvement in; funding, training, and arming Syrian Rebels/Terrorists.


These Senators are despicable...  New Hampshire's Shaheen up on the war drums now.

Good Ole Qaddafi called it at that Arab Nations meeting in Doha... they're all being assassinated one at a time, all under covert false pretenses.

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## ClydeCoulter

Hagel is lying about the evidence and it's written all over his lower jaw!

----------


## ord33

> Rand will get his 5mins but who knows when.


They are working from the inside of the seating out. Rand is the last one on the left had side of the seating arrangement. He'll likely be last or second to last. McCain is getting near being in the on deck circle. He is sitting in the corner and should be up in a little while.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

This is a Joke, it's all about "How" not "Why"

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## devil21

Did I just hear that right?

Kerry just said that the strikes would be to help the opposition!  Kerry just admitted that the goal is to help Al Qaeda.  He finally said it.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

We have 2 threads going on this...hard to keep up with (well, for this old man)

----------


## Natural Citizen

> We have 2 threads going on this...hard to keep up with (well, for this old man)


Yeah, I don't know why people do that....

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Did I just hear that right?
> 
> Kerry just said that the strikes would be to help the opposition!  Kerry just admitted that the goal is to help Al Qaeda.  He finally said it.


Damn, I missed that looking for this thread, again. (I'm kind of single threaded )

Did you mark the position on CSpan for later retrieval? (somewhere just prior to 2:22:0)

----------


## COpatriot

After watching this I think the senate is going to green light this. The house is still a question mark though.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> After watching this I think the senate is going to green light this. The house is still a question mark though.


I haven't heard anything yet about "Why we should" but only "How we could"

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Is the vote today?

----------


## devil21

> Damn, I missed that looking for this thread, again. (I'm kind of single threaded )
> 
> Did you mark the position on CSpan for later retrieval? (somewhere just prior to 2:22:0)


No, but it would match up with my post time in Eastern time.  He didn't actually say Al Qaeda, just that the goal is to assist the opposition.  So much for all the bs about "American credibility" and that emotional junk.

----------


## COpatriot

> Is the vote today?


No. This isn't actually a congressional session it's a foreign relations committee hearing. The vote I think would be next week.

----------


## AuH20

They will cobble together enough establishment house votes in both the republican and democrat sections, similar to what transpired with the Amash NSA bill. It will be close, but the establishment will not leave Obama to die on the vine. No way.

----------


## S.Shorland

It was America that actually exploded nuclear bombs in cities,nobody else

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> No, but it would match up with my post time in Eastern time.  He didn't actually say Al Qaeda, just that the goal is to assist the opposition.  So much for all the bs about "American credibility" and that emotional junk.


I understood that you FIFH (Fixed it for him) but that's what he said in so many words

----------


## fr33

Even though they are trying to hold back their real plans, Hagel and Kerry have made it obvious they want a full on war for regime change.

----------


## Demigod

Is it me or does this look staged.At this point they are basically apologizing for even having this meeting.

They are arguing that they should not even be consulted .

----------


## compromise

Wow, Flake sounds no different from McCain these days...this is not the same Jeff Flake that voted against Libya in 2011.

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## HOLLYWOOD

> They will cobble together enough establishment house votes in both the republican and democrat sections, similar to what transpired with the Amash NSA bill. It will be close, but the establishment will not leave Obama to die on the vine. No way.


 A closer parody would be John Boehner's Bill to keep the war machine going in Libya. As witnessed, the 'No Fly Zone' turned out to be, bombing the country, destroying the military and infrastructure, and assassinating the government. Then Benghazi, Libya was turned into a Syrian rebel recruitment, training, and arming base, prior to shipment to Syria.

----------


## ord33

> Wow, Flake sounds no different from McCain these days...this is not the same Jeff Flake that voted against Libya in 2011.


You definitely hit the nail on the head there.

----------


## compromise

> You definitely hit the nail on the head there.


I think he must have done a deal with McCain in 2012. McCain would get Flake to the Senate and Flake would become McCain's loyal devotee.

----------


## matt0611

Has Rand been on yet?

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## specsaregood

> Even though they are trying to hold back their real plans, Hagel and Kerry have made it obvious they want a full on war for regime change.


These guys know that bullies lose their power the second they backdown.  They keep talking about how all our flunkie nations will stop being our "ally" if we don't beat up on the slow kid.

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> They will cobble together enough establishment house votes in both the republican and democrat sections, similar to what transpired with the Amash NSA bill. It will be close, but the establishment will not leave Obama to die on the vine. No way.


The only question will be how much the American people push back on this.

----------


## orenbus

> Has Rand been on yet?


No I think they go by this list:

Menendez
Corker

Barbara Boxer
James E. Risch
Benjamin L. Cardin
Marco Rubio
Jeanne Shaheen
Ron Johnson
Christopher Coons
Jeff Flake
Richard J. Durbin
John McCain
Tom Udall
John Barrasso
Chris Murphy
Rand Paul
Tim Kaine
Edward J. Markey

----------


## Warlord

> Even though they are trying to hold back their real plans, Hagel and Kerry have made it obvious they want a full on war for regime change.


That's obvious. They want to get sucked in and are leaving the door open to a full on invasion

----------


## Natural Citizen

> The only question will be how much the American people push back on this.


I think that's the whole point of this discussion we're listening to now. Has been a monumental step in getting the attention of enough people to force congressional discussion on these issues and that is push back in and of itself. Seems like they are making a mockery of it here. Or attempting to do that.  Down the road we'll certainly hear the old tried and true analogy of "Oh...congress agreed last time so why bother?"

----------


## Rudeman

Glad I haven't missed Rand yet, unfortunately McCain is talking right now.

----------


## ObiRandKenobi

> Glad I haven't missed Rand yet, unfortunately McCain is talking right now.


glad im unable to watch

----------


## thehungarian

This guy was the Republican nominee in 2008. Every time I see him on TV I think of that and am just blown away.

----------


## mosquitobite

Anyone know where the USS Enterprise is these days?

----------


## S.Shorland

'My fellow prisoners!'

----------


## thehungarian

I love the moral piggybacking that goes on in these circle-jerk forums. "As you may well know, I do not support use of chemical weapons on civilians." So brave.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

It still comes down to debating the text of the AUMF, not whether there should be one.

----------


## Rudeman

jeez Kerry contradicts himself so many times. Why don't people call him out on his BS?

----------


## COpatriot

Udall (D-NM). Well done.

----------


## Warlord

Rand will be on in 10 mins or so

----------


## seyferjm

> Udall (D-NM). Well done.


Only good one thus far

----------


## supermario21

Barrasso doing a nice job exposing Kerry, as well.

----------


## Rudeman

> No I think they go by this list:
> 
> Menendez
> Corker
> 
> Barbara Boxer
> James E. Risch
> Benjamin L. Cardin
> Marco Rubio
> ...


This list looks to be accurate. Barrasso is on right now.

----------


## matt0611

Barosso asks a question I've been wondering "What will Obama do if congress says no"

Kerry "We're not contemplating that, it would be too dire."

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Such Kabuki Theater... 

US Senators acknowledging the presence of Teresa Heinz Kerry, giving her accolades and in return, she gives her 'head-bobbin' approval to any warhawk's comments on attacking Syria.

----------


## ord33

They were asked about collateral damage and they said they were targeting places that were "low" in collateral damage. When asked what "low" meant, they said that could only be discussed in classified meetings tomorrow. I wonder what their "low" assessment figure is. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't want it being known because their "low" number when multiplied across the many bombings nationwide in Syria would clearly outnumber those effected in the sarin gas attacks.

----------


## ord33

> Barosso asks a question I've been wondering "What will Obama do if congress says no"
> 
> Kerry "We're not contemplating that, it would be too dire."


Did you see Rand's smirk when Kerry said that (could barely see Rand next to Barosso).

----------


## Warlord

Rand is up after Murphy

----------


## specsaregood

I think Kerry will not handle Rand well,  I think Rand can get him to snap if he goes for it.

----------


## orenbus

> Such Kabuki Theater... 
> 
> US Senators acknowledging the presence of Teresa Heinz Kerry, giving her accolades and in return, she gives her 'head-bobbin' approval to any warhawk's comments on attacking Syria.


And don't forget the potential money she can donate to them, had to look it up she's worth somewhere between 750M to 1.2B dollars, that's a lot of campaign advertising dollars come re-election time.

----------


## eleganz

> I think Kerry will not handle Rand well,  I think Rand can get him to snap if he goes for it.

----------


## seyferjm

Does that gas include the nonsense coming from Kerry? Or Agent Orange or depleted uranium?

----------


## krugminator

Rand

----------


## Melissa

Wow if we do nothing according to Kerry they will gas us all...why would they not have done it if that is there goal...the fear mongering is very strong with Kerry

----------


## StateofTrance

Here you go....

----------


## StateofTrance

Look at his smirk..

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Killing It!

----------


## Warlord

Rand calls it theater lol

----------


## seyferjm

Kerry looks annoyed

----------


## thehungarian

Oh, Rand. You know what I like.

----------


## Dianne

I have a very bad feeling about this.     The fact Obama went to Congress with this, is to share the blame when the orchestrated WW111 breaks out.     

I don't even believe that John Kerry is really John Kerry.      He looks very different, almost a Hollywood cosmetic job.     If that is the real John Kerry, maybe his wife broke his nose because it sure is pretty crooked now.    Check it out.

My daughter is experienced in state make up... I'll let her check it out.

----------


## Natural Citizen

Heh...Kerry reaches for notepad....

----------


## Melissa

If you did not love Rand before this..you must love him now..he is the ONLY one trying to have a real discussion

----------


## COpatriot

Hannity is essentially admitting that he's against bombing Syria because it's not the war he wants and that Iran is.

Rand kicking ass.

----------


## DrHendricks

Lol. Kerry just cuts Rand off to say, at the end of the day, I'll let the chief executive make the decision to go to war. You can't cheat the Constitution Mr. Kerry.

----------


## Kords21

Rand sounds pissed.

----------


## libertarian101

GO RAND GO, I'm playing background music

----------


## supermario21

Lol, Rand describing blowback now...

----------


## DrHendricks

Israel will be less safe? Really Kerry? When was the last time an Assad run Syria attacked Israel? 40 years ago?

----------


## anaconda

> I'm telling you, people who question Hagel on this board are mostly Evangelicals who dislike him because he isn't pro-Israel enough.


My problems with Hagel were his affiliations with Deutsche Bank, the Council On Foreign Relations, and the Bilderberg Group.

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## thehungarian

Man, Kerry does not like Rand.

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## Kords21

Limited war equals almost pregnant

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## DrHendricks

GOING TO THE WAR IN THE CLASSIC SENSE? You are bombing another country? How is that not an act of war?

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## anaconda

> Heh...Kerry reaches for notepad....


That's one of his nervous ticks. He fumbled with the notepad extensively when Rand questioned him during his Secretary of State confirmation.

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## Melissa

My fav from Kerry...we have to do this to protect Israel but when Rand asks about Assad might react and bomb Israel Kerry says..Oh they can handle it...what what

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## supermario21

Dana "Bush" Perino just said Kerry did a great job...

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## specsaregood

Hey Kerry,  if Russia dropped bombs on us, would you not call it an act of war?

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## Kords21

Lol, Kerry trying to tag out from Rand's questioning

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## green73

Rand thinks Congress is going to vote for it.

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## eduardo89

Dammit, I left my computer to record this and I set a time limit of 1.5 hours thinking that would be enough and it stopped recording right in the middle of Rand's questioning.

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## eleganz

Rand didn't get a lot of time....

It seemed like Kerry had an extra tone in his voice saved up just for Rand.

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## eduardo89

> Rand thinks Congress is going to vote for it.


You seriously thought they wouldn't?

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## radiofriendly

Boy, that was good!

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## specsaregood

> Rand thinks Congress is going to vote for it.


What better way to get their constituents pissed enough to contact them about it, than to say that?

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## evandeck

General response on twitter: "Kerry just slammed non-vet Rand Paul"

Search for "Rand Paul" on twitter to see what I mean. This did not make Rand more likeable.

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## Rudeman

> Rand thinks Congress is going to vote for it.


Unfortunately he's likely right. Senate is a guarantee to approve it, the House might be closer but I think they'll also approve it (I hope I'm wrong).

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## jtstellar

that was only ok by rand's standard.. 

he needs more time.  he performs better than ron under time constraint but it still limits him beneath his real potential.  but it's ok, he is someone who adapts and improves quickly

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## ClydeCoulter

Rand let Kerry overpower him at the end

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## davesxj

Kerry ripPing pages from his notepad, rubbing his face and tugging at his collar, Hagel getting ignored, and Dempsey declining to speak, presumably because he as a General couldn't deny bombing is an act of war was an awesome 5 minutes of CSPAN all thanks to Rand.  

Ron Paul and Kucinich were on Fox earlier today.

Encouraging.

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## specsaregood

> General response on twitter: "Kerry just slammed non-vet Rand Paul"
> Search for "Rand Paul" on twitter to see what I mean. This did not make Rand more likeable.


Twitter is meaningless.  I predict that Rand will get more longterm positive press from this than anybody else in the hearing.   The fact that he called it out as theater and put Kerry on the spot about the purpose of even having a "debate" will get played a lot.

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## libertarian101

A lot of crocodile tears

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## fearthereaperx

Wow, that was tense. Kerry was extremely visibly hot and bothered by Rand's lecturing. Last time I saw him act like that was when he was asked about skull and bones on meet the press.

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## ClydeCoulter

Ah, so the international community is good for saying not to use chemical weapons, but NOT to determine whether they were used and who used them?  You're a twisting hypocrite, Kerry.

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## anaconda

> that was only ok by rand's standard.. 
> 
> he needs more time.  he performs better than ron under time constraint but it is still limited beneath his real potential.  but it's ok, he is someone who adapts and improves quickly


I thought Senators were afforded more time for questioning. Does anyone know how this works?

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## Dary

> GOING TO THE WAR IN THE CLASSIC SENSE? You are bombing another country? How is that not an act of war?





> Hey Kerry,  if Russia dropped bombs on us, would you not call it an act of war?


I wish Rand would have asked that.

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## jtstellar

> General response on twitter: "Kerry just slammed non-vet Rand Paul"
> 
> Search for "Rand Paul" on twitter to see what I mean. This did not make Rand more likeable.


i picked up on that snarky attack the instant it left kerry's mouth.. 

i think this can lead to a divide of non-vets actually scorning vets who want war.  military service isn't as respected as before.  it barely even matters in presidential primaries anymore.  these guys still live in the 20th century and i think this tone has a chance of igniting some distaste for people who wear military service on their sleeves

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## Kords21

Listening on the radio is interesting. I thought Kerry was going to come through my speakers like the angry demon he sounded me when responding to Rand. He sounds so much calmer now, amazing.

The twitter thing is funny to me. The idea of John Kerry caring more about vets and the military more than Rand is just laughable.

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## krugminator

Kerry brought the heat. Hard to say that was a win for Rand. Maybe not a loss though.

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## eleganz

> General response on twitter: "Kerry just slammed non-vet Rand Paul"
> 
> Search for "Rand Paul" on twitter to see what I mean. This did not make Rand more likeable.


Its just the liberals and socialists that hate capitalism in general that are bagging on him.  If they want to go to war because their hero says so, not much we or Rand can do...

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## Bruno

> Wow, that was tense. Kerry was extremely visibly hot and bothered by Rand's lecturing. Last time I saw him act like that was when he was asked about skull and bones on meet the press.


Don't taze me, bro!

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## tsai3904

> I thought Senators were afforded more time for questioning. Does anyone know how this works?


Senators get 10 minutes while House members get 5 minutes.  Rand asked all his questions at one time and let Kerry respond.  That method didn't give Rand much time to counter Kerry's arguments.

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## Bruno

Shouldn't Menendez be seeking relations with an underage foreign prostitute, instead of talking about hitting a bully with a piece of lumber?

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## specsaregood

> These guys know that bullies lose their power the second they backdown.  They keep talking about how all our flunkie nations will stop being our "ally" if we don't beat up on the slow kid.


Hah, my Sen. IlikeToBangUnderageGirls (NJ) making the bully argument the other way.   Oh the irony.

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## anaconda

> General response on twitter: "Kerry just slammed non-vet Rand Paul"
> 
> Search for "Rand Paul" on twitter to see what I mean. This did not make Rand more likeable.


Maybe Rand should have brought up Swift Boat.

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## RockEnds

> Rand let Kerry overpower him at the end


He did, but only by outting himself as a hateful warmonger.

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## politics

so which is the proof that went on public?

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## jtstellar

> Senators get 10 minutes while House members get 5 minutes.  Rand asked all his questions at one time and let Kerry respond.  That method didn't give Rand much time to counter Kerry's arguments.


it's ok

i'm pretty sure rand will head back to the lab right after this to work on his next delivery.. he improves with every obstacle and i have no doubt it will be the same this time

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## AlexAmore

looking through Twitter, the general distaste for Paul seems to be coming from the press and party big wigs. Also the general public are not watching and commenting on social media about this. I'm not commenting on Facebook about this because none of my friends would give a $#@! about the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

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## tsai3904

You can find video of Rand's part here:
http://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearin...force-in-syria

Rand comes on at 3:27:58 - 3:38:00:

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## evandeck

Instead of listening to the debate McCain decides to play on his phone

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...c-c0b0d9d4fe0a

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## anaconda

> Senators get 10 minutes while House members get 5 minutes.  Rand asked all his questions at one time and let Kerry respond.  That method didn't give Rand much time to counter Kerry's arguments.


Do questioners have to be on the Foreign Relations Committees?

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## specsaregood

> Originally Posted by specsaregood
> 
> 
> Hey Kerry,  if Russia dropped bombs on us, would you not call it an act of war?
> 
> 
> I wish Rand would have asked that.


ya know, I really wanted him to -- although I think he was out of time by that point.   But on reflection, that's exactly the type of question that Ron would use and ron supporters loved; but got him nothing but $#@! from the general public and pundit class.   maybe he mentally made a note not to make that "what if they did it to us" argument.

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## politics

If, the syrian goverment acted against a treaty you shouldnt act against the UN TREATY by attacking another Country without the UN authorization, otherwise you become the one acting against the international law

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## anaconda

> Instead of listening to the debate McCain decides to play on his phone
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...c-c0b0d9d4fe0a


Classic.

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## tsai3904

> Do questioners have to be on the Foreign Relations Committees?


Yea, only members of a committee can ask questions at that committee.

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## tangent4ronpaul

Please tell me someone is recording this and caught Kerry's 2 face palms when Rand was questioning him - a full and a half - along with what that was in response to.  These need to go viral!

I loved how that one Sen was talking about the world community condemning CBR warfare and we needed to step in as the worlds policemen.  Wonder how many "specials" those ships are carrying...  The hypocrisy, the hypocrisy...

And the Sen condeming chem weapons use against CIVILIANS! - but I suppose hitting that mil target nestled between the orphanage and the hospital w/ them would be just peachy keen!  

-t

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## Rudeman

Post hearings CNN mentioned how most of the Senators asked softball questions and that Rand and McCain were the ones that asked the toughest questions. They also mentioned how Rand asked if Obama/Kerry would follow whatever congress decided and that Obama will essentially do whatever he has to do.

Overall it was positive for Rand.

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## specsaregood

> Post hearings CNN mentioned how most of the Senators asked softball questions and that Rand and McCain were the ones that asked the toughest questions. They also mentioned how Rand asked if Obama/Kerry would follow whatever congress decided and that Obama will essentially do whatever he has to do.
> 
> Overall it was positive for Rand.


Bob Corker being asked about Rand by a reporter in post-thingy press conference.  Had nothing but positive remarks to say.

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## libertarian101

I'm a bit disappointed. Kerry had tougher question from some of the other members than he did with Rand. I don't know why Rand feels like he has to be funny most of the time. He should have presented serious tone from the start and should have had the last word. Anyway, it was alright and hopefully Rand will have better interviews.

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## libertarian101

> Bob Corker being asked about Rand by a reporter in post-thingy press conference. Had nothing but positive remarks to say.


He said they disagree on the issue but they have respectful friendship so he wasn't that bad.

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## anaconda

> You can find video of Rand's part here:
> http://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearin...force-in-syria
> 
> Rand comes on at 3:27:58 - 3:38:00:


Thank you for this. And, OMG check out McCain's writhing body language and antics of talking while Rand is talking about James Madison.

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## Rudeman

Rubio was questioned on Fox, asked about Rand saying whether Israel would be better off/whether Iran is more likely etc. Rubio basically spun it to blame it on Obama for not doing anything earlier to help moderates take over Syria and that it might be too late now. Basically covering his position on both ends (that if it backfires then it is Obama's fault for not doing something sooner).

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## jct74

//

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## Rudeman

And of course CNN had Bill Kristol on, called Rand an isolationist and that the isolationists were the minority in the Senate (5) and House (50). I guess the new phrase for neocons is internationalists. Also put the blame on Obama to explain why the "internationalists" are wavering on whether to get involved.

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## CaseyJones



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## Bastiat's The Law

> And of course CNN had Bill Kristol on, called Rand an isolationist and that the isolationists were the minority in the Senate (5) and House (50). I guess the new phrase for neocons is internationalists. Also put the blame on Obama to explain why the "internationalists" are wavering on whether to get involved.


We should start calling them imperialists.

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## RockEnds

> And of course CNN had Bill Kristol on, called Rand an isolationist and that the isolationists were the minority in the Senate (5) and House (50). I guess the new phrase for neocons is internationalists. Also put the blame on Obama to explain why the "internationalists" are wavering on whether to get involved.


Then McCain was on to explain that we're just going there to take out the air defense systems.  After being asked to elaborate, he decided maybe chemical weapons are the reason we're there.  My daughter was talking to me when he said it.  I hope it lands on youtube.

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## mosquitobite

> We should start calling them imperialists.


Indeed!

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## anaconda

"War in the classic sense" is a slogan that deserves much lampooning over the next several days.

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## fr33

> We should start calling them imperialists.


I call them fascists.

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## fr33

> "War in the classic sense" is a slogan that deserves much lampooning over the next several days.

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## trey4sports

Great stuff! Plenty of youtube fodder. That smug prick is a piece of trash.

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## specsaregood

> What a let down. Rand really under performed in this clip. How is it that he did not doubt the administration accretion that it was Assad who used chemical weapons. Once you give it to that, the whole game is over. Also when Kerry said that Hezbollah and Iran would be emboldened if we did not attack, why didn't he counter that American's No. 1 enemy Al Qaeda will gain if we attacked?
> 
> Just disappointed with this whole exchange


I can only assume you didn't listen to the entire hearing then.  all that stuff you asked was brought up by the dozen plus pro-war congressman that went before Rand.  And brought up a friendly way -- lobbed over the plate -- as to give Kerry an easy base hit.   And for any tough stuff, he said he couldn't talk about it in the public hearing but would be presenting those answers in the classified hearing tomorrow.       They used up and dismissed all the obvious talking points/arguments Rand could have used before he had a chance to speak.

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## jtstellar

> I doubt he will be doing any comeback. For one there is no time for a second act and 2, he swallowed the govt line that Assad side used the chemical weapon. I cannot understand why he is so quick to believe the intel on this seeing how often the intel lies us into war. Kerry got him good in the fight


cus you debate with what's available at hand.. 

when you wander into midst of questioning people's character who provided those info you start going all over the place and nobody ends up taking you seriously and nobody will know what you're trying to say within your 10 given minutes.. unless you have solid evidence you could present under 3minutes, as ron wyden did to james clapper, you can't prove someone is lying right there and you will have wasted time you could at least otherwise use to point out the hypocrisy of the establishment in their desire to completely usuprp power from the people

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## georgiaboy

> Okay, can someone make a version with McCain not in it?  I can hardly bear to watch that smug SOB.  Dear God, I hate that man.


..but, your avatar, LE ..

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## Dianne

> that was only ok by rand's standard.. 
> 
> he needs more time.  he performs better than ron under time constraint but it is still limited beneath his real potential.  but it's ok, he is someone who adapts and improves quickly


No doubt in my mind this will pass...    Iran and Syria the only two countries in the mid east not within the World Bank, and they must go according to the anti Christ .... O bomb ya

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## dillo

> I bet they know more than you do. The amount of opposition Hagel faced was unprecedented for a Defence nominee. Clearly, lots of Zionists saw him as a threat. Even the Anti-Defamation League was worried. lol


controlled opposition

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## supermario21

Bill Kristol is literally the Dick Morris of warfare...yet once he becomes no longer a Fox exclusive Kristol gets snapped up by every other MSM network out there!

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## Brian4Liberty

> Hey Kerry,  if Russia dropped bombs on us, would you not call it an act of war?

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## eleganz

It wasn't great but I'm not as worried, not THAT many people watched the hearing today.  Its all about how Rand gets on the headlines during the duration of this debate, not just what happened today.  How does Rand come out on top in the long run?

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## fr33

From what I've read tonight on conservative sites and commentators, they were pleased with Rand. People here are sometimes too hard on him.

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## jtstellar

i am already beginning to forget what kerry said

it was that void of substance.  something about some mysterious top secret info only he is privy to, and that he has been to war.  he may have had some emotionally provocative sentences when put together, but rand still had the best substantive one-liners and soundbites and it would work well in media reruns

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## eleganz

I know a neocon who is RAHRAH'ing behind Obama/Kerry on this one.

These people are $#@!ing pathetic.

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## economics102

I'm really proud of Rand. He doesn't have the sense of moral authority in his voice that his father had, which makes it tough to argue with someone like Kerry. But Rand is silver-tongued and clearly does his homework, preparing clever, original talking points and such. He hit Kerry with everything he had. It was a David vs. Goliath moment, and I don't think he necessarily succeeded, but I'm just glad he threw the stone.

He did push Kerry into a corner that may become important later. He's drawn public attention to this and that will help Amash and co. in the House try to whip the resistance together.

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## MRK

I love how the guy at the end responded essentially by saying "I'm not going on record in defense of this even with a ten foot pole..."

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## randomname

> I'm really proud of Rand. He doesn't have the sense of moral authority in his voice that his father had


I felt Rand was actually channeling his father's voice but in all the bad ways 

He made good points but his voice was all over the place, not well composed, he sounded jittery/rambling/nervous, whiny, insecure, unprepared. im probably being too hard on him because the contrast is so big against an impressive guy like Kerry. Maybe thats why McCain was facepalming as well, it really did feel like David vs Goliath.

I'm sure he's well aware of that though and will shine soon enough.

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## 69360

So, when US soldiers die will it then be "war in the classic sense"? Because Kerry is lying to everyone. Right now there are US boots on the ground in Syria. How exactly does everyone think they decide where to launch cruise missiles at? There are special forces and CIA spotters on the ground right now. There are also special forces and CIA personnel on the ground to handle passing weapons to the AQ rebels. So when one of them is shown dead on TV will it be "classic war"? How about when terrorists blow up Incirlik airbase or Assad launches a missile at it? It's 30 miles from the Syrian border, they don't tell you that in a pretty rose garden speech. They also don't tell you that Syria has modern Russian anti-ship missises that can hit the 6th fleet in the Mediterranean?

All of this from that bastard who threw his medals over the white house fence because the US had no strategic threat from Vietnam?

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## JCDenton0451

The problem we face is that so long as people accept the moral responsibility of the US to police the world, inverventionists will always have the upper hand in this debate. When Kerry says that bombing Syria reduces the chances of Assad using chemical weapons in the future, it's really hard to argue with that, so long as you accept that the US national interest lies in stopping Assad from using chemical weapons.

The same rationale can be used to justify any possible intervention, including in Iran.

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## JCDenton0451

> John Kerry: "We need to take an action that can degrade the capacity of a man who has been willing to kill his own people..."


Frankly, the only answer to that is "no we don't"/"not our concern". Kerry's pro-war arguments are based entirely on a liberal internationalist sense of morality: using the power of the US military to reinforce the _international norms_ that they created. Once you've conceded the moral high ground to John Kerry, you have lost the argument.

At some point someone will have to rise up and say it's not our job to solve the worlds problems...

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## ClydeCoulter

> The problem we face is that so long as people accept the moral responsibility of the US to police the world, inverventionists will always have the upper hand in this debate. When Kerry says that bombing Syria reduces the chances of Assad using chemical weapons in the future, it's really hard to argue with that, so long as you accept that the US national interest lies in stopping Assad from using chemical weapons.
> 
> The same rationale can be used to justify any possible intervention, including in Iran.


Hell, the same can be said about our own government.  Are they going to strike themselves?

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## 69360

> The problem we face is that so long as people accept the moral responsibility of the US to police the world, inverventionists will always have the upper hand in this debate. When Kerry says that bombing Syria reduces the chances of Assad using chemical weapons in the future, it's really hard to argue with that, so long as you accept that the US national interest lies in stopping Assad from using chemical weapons.
> 
> The same rationale can be used to justify any possible intervention, including in Iran.


BS, first off, nobody has provided any proof at all of who actually used the chemical weapons. Second it's a very valid argument that if Assad was the one who used them, he will use more of them in retaliation to a US strike.

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## JCDenton0451

> Hell, the same can be said about our own government.  Are they going to strike themselves?


No, but they would use whatever force necessary to crush the "tea party/patriot/right-wing extremists". They said as much.

It's not about compassion as much as it is about reinforcing the international (their) order.

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## JCDenton0451

> BS, first off, nobody has provided any proof at all of who actually used the chemical weapons. Second it's a very valid argument that if Assad was the one who used them, he will use more of them in retaliation to a US strike.


Ordinary people are not in the position to examine the evidence personally and reach their own conclusions. They'll just have to rely on what the authority figures tell them and most authority figures "concluded" that Assad did in fact use chemical weapons. So, for the purposes of domestic political debate we'll just have to assume that intelligence is always right and barbarians are barbarical.

Now, the moment you accept that the US has a moral responsibility to save the Middle Eastern people from their barbarical rulers, the debate is lost.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> I think its great that we have someone like Rand in the U.S. senate to take on these $#@!s.  If it wasn't for Rand then our views would have almost zero representation in these matters.  But part of me would give my right nut to see Ron Paul in the same situation, and see what kind of questions he would ask that smug douchebag.


And yet some people on this forum think we shouldn't continue to elect liberty candidates through the GOP.  We need to double our efforts and get Rand some allies in the Senate and get Amash and Massie allies in the House.  Why would we deviate from a strategy this is getting our views heard and where we're able to confront these warmongers on national tv and maybe even throw a monkey wrench into their diabolical plans?

----------


## Barrex

> The problem we face is that so long as people accept the moral responsibility of the US to police the world, inverventionists will always have the upper hand in this debate. When Kerry says that bombing Syria reduces the chances of Assad using chemical weapons in the future, it's really hard to argue with that, so long as you accept that the US national interest lies in stopping Assad from using chemical weapons.
> 
> The same rationale can be used to justify any possible intervention, including in Iran.


It is not hard to argue against that at all.
Few main options for Assad:
1.Assad is cornered by USA and starts losing badly and only possible path to victory is to use all his weapons on Israel, USA military bases around Syria and rebels.
2.Assad sees that he can not win and gives chemical weapons to Hezbollah. Hezbollah uses it on Israel.
3.Assad sees that he can not win and flees to Iran. Al-Qaedas first goal is to rush to chemical weapons and take it. They would do it without any problems. No one would dare to stand up against them since there would be chaos and those with weapons were fighting on same side with Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda starts executing Christians, Alaweets, Sunnis, Kurds. Later chemical weapons are used to start terrorist attacks all over the globe.
4.*Fairytale/best case USA scenario:* They bomb Assad. Assad gives up and runs away. Non-existent or so far irrelevant pro western, democratic, civilized branch of rebels becomes most dominant and manages to stop Al-Qaeda and extremists, secures all chemical weapons, keeps  Christians, Alaweets, Kurds and other completely safe and forms new government.  


Next elections in Syria are in 2014. They seem far but maybe they are best chance for eventual peace.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Something sad about McCain being right next to Rand. It is like he was surrounded by a brood of vipers.


Welcome to legislative bodies in the 21st century.

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## enhanced_deficit

*Rand should  ask Kerry: Will you flip flop on Syria as you did after voting for Iraq war?*Rand can be bit tougher on war monger actors. Kerry is a dope and can be undone very quickly.

If Kerry brings up FP Obama regime claims based on Israeli/UK intel sources, he  should be reminded that they had also provided intel to US that Iraq  had WMDs.

----------

