# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Burying a Backup

## ihsv

With the troubles looming on the horizon, I'd like to spark a discussion on hiding/burying backup firearms.  In the event of mass gun confiscations and thefts by governmental contractors/employees, I think it a good idea to keep some backups buried or hidden in case they raid you at night or when you're not expecting it.  Last thing I'd want is to be stuck without the ability to defend my family.

Even aside from that, keeping a hidden backup that you can uncover and share with friends or family in need is also a good idea.

What are the best methods for hiding/buring firearms?  Would it make sense to dribble gun oil in various locations of the house in order to sidetrack gun-sniffing dogs?  What would be the most likely place that they'd look?  Where wouldn't they look?  If there are papers on the weapons you own, should you sell them or hide them?  

There are so many other aspects to this type of discussion, but someone's got to have thought this out.

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## youngbuck

If they try house to house gun confiscation, the $#@! will literally hit the fan.  Keep them ready, not buried.  That's just my view on it though.

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## yongrel

If this is something you plan on doing, the internet is not the place to discuss it.

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## nate895

When they start confiscating guns, it will be past the time to start the revolt.

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## Cowlesy

> If this is something you plan on doing, the internet is not the place to discuss it.


Absolutely agree, but seeing how the sheep in Louisiana rolled over in some instances when their guns were confiscated to me makes this a valid concept to be seen by some here.




> When they start confiscating guns, it will be past the time to start the revolt.


Agree.


Boy Scout Motto: Be Prepared

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## Gideon

Emergency Caching.

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## Matt Collins

Well - any security expert will tell you that there is an inverse relationship between security and ease of access.

In other words, if something is very secure, it is hard to get to and not quick or easy to access. For example leaving a gun under your pillow isn't very secure but it's easy to get to. But if you leave it locked in a safe with a trigger lock in the basement corner, it's very secure, but don't expect to be able to use it quickly.

That is one of the major points to keep in mind - security vs ease of access.



However I like the idea in Terminator 3 where they put a ton of weapons in a coffin. No one will ever look there for sure.

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## micahnelson

> However I like the idea in Terminator 3 where they put a ton of weapons in a coffin. No one will ever look there for sure.


Every time I see a coffin, i open it and check for weapons. I have seen 2 Pistols, A Rifle, and over 2000 dead people.

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## agentl074

> If they try house to house gun confiscation, the $#@! will literally hit the fan.  Keep them ready, not buried.  That's just my view on it though.


Agreed!

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## nohbdy

> Absolutely agree, but seeing how the sheep in Louisiana rolled over in some instances when their guns were confiscated to me makes this a valid concept to be seen by some here.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> Boy Scout Motto: Be Prepared


that sounds dandy, it's good to keep an cheap shotgun and pistol around just for 
the purposes of defense against intruders and anyone trying to lay claim to your 
arms, problem is if you have a platoon on your door step seeking to take your 
guns, where do you go, start shooting and you'll defeat the purpose of true resistance

first things first, you dont know me, you have no need but what I have to say is 
important, I've noticed from lurking that some of you have a small arsenal, plenty 
of ammo, etc. that's great, now may be a good time to stash it but seeing as how 
our country has no gun registration but lots of paperwork associated with guns, 
it's a good idea to make those 'disappear' first. anything you've bought new, 
anything you've pawned, anything with paper

1. make them vanish, put an ad in the local paper or trade publication that allos 
the sale of firearms, now is a great time as many people are in debt and trying to 
make ends meet, no one can blame you for selling your arms in times of distress, 
money is tight. dummy a receipt showing the sale to some john doe, include the 
serial number, run the ad for a week or two then pull is as the arms have been "sold"

2. cache your arms and your ammo, make sure it's somewhere that wont see 
development, make sure you use a desiccant but that is doesn't come in contact 
with anything metal, that will cause corrosion and oxidation. vacuum seal pistols 
if at all possible for added protection.

3. if they come to your door seeking your weapons, break out your receipts and 
your sale ad, show them that you've sold the arms to make your house or car 
payment. in many cases they'll want to search as you've been known to own 
firearms

4. keep a couple of disposable small arms handy because when they search they 
want to find something, you were holding out, they'll be hopping mad that they 
did not find more but they have something so they will be pacified for the time 
being, make sure to protest them taking your guns, spout the 2nd as often as 
possible, and tell them you cant defend your family

5. good weapons to buy for seizure, lorcin 9mm, usually they cost less than $100 
used in a pawn shop, maybe a raven arms .25ACP and a shotgun, 12 guage and 
cheap, does not matter as long as it did not cost much. the whole point in having 
these weapons is to have them taken in a mass confiscation

6. make sure any arms you stockpile are common calibers, something NATO forces 
will carry, if TSHTF and you are forced to defend, dead soldiers are your best source
 for ammunition and in some cases more weapons, it would be prudent to be able
 to chamber their rounds


if there is any thing we've learned from recent history is that NATO does the 
"police work", they wont have US soldiers confiscating the weapons, the vast 
majority will not agree with the plan while the majority of NATO members believe 
americans have far too many guns and will not be opposed to removing them 
from our homes

when a confiscation occurs, they'll be out in force, a single man will not fend off a 
platoon, when they believe they have the arms, that's when troops will be 
withdrawn and you will have the upper hand

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## Pericles

I hear this from time to time, so I have to ask - "Just who is NATO going to send here for that type of program?"

Canada has one division, and half of it is in Afghanistan
The UK has a division+, they withdrew from Iraq, because the units had been cut in this year's budget, and what is left of the British Army takes turns in N. Ireland, and staging parades for the Queen in London.
Germany still has an army (10 divisions - same active duty strength as the US Army), but they and everybody else in NATO have shrunk down, and are more concerned with what Russia is going to do.
The French don't participate in the military command structure - so who is going to do this? Nobody else in NATO has enough of an army to put more than one brigade anywhere.

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## Matt Collins

> Every time I see a coffin, i open it and check for weapons. I have seen 2 Pistols, A Rifle, and over 2000 dead people.


I know a guy who had his wife put the remote control in his coffin ha ha ha 

It was hilarious... at the funeral people would go up to the open coffin to pay their respects and when they got there they just started busting out laughing because he had the remote control in his hand. Now there is a guy with a sense of humor.

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## hillbilly123069

> With the troubles looming on the horizon, I'd like to spark a discussion on hiding/burying backup firearms.  In the event of mass gun confiscations and thefts by governmental contractors/employees, I think it a good idea to keep some backups buried or hidden in case they raid you at night or when you're not expecting it.  Last thing I'd want is to be stuck without the ability to defend my family.
> 
> Even aside from that, keeping a hidden backup that you can uncover and share with friends or family in need is also a good idea.
> 
> What are the best methods for hiding/buring firearms?  Would it make sense to dribble gun oil in various locations of the house in order to sidetrack gun-sniffing dogs?  What would be the most likely place that they'd look?  Where wouldn't they look?  If there are papers on the weapons you own, should you sell them or hide them?  
> 
> There are so many other aspects to this type of discussion, but someone's got to have thought this out.


Gun case wrapped in plastic wrap sprinkled heavy with black pepper.

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## Deborah K

> Absolutely agree, but seeing how the sheep in Louisiana rolled over in some instances when their guns were confiscated to me makes this a valid concept to be seen by some here.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> Boy Scout Motto: Be Prepared


Louisiana was a real eye opener for me.  I wonder if people actually learned anything from the holocaust, namely, that even when warned by friends and relatives that it was coming, most sheeple stayed put and refused to believe it.  Then, when the time came, they just went off to the slaughter with nary a fight.

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## nohbdy

> I hear this from time to time, so I have to ask - "Just who is NATO going to send here for that type of program?"
> 
>  Nobody else in NATO has enough of an army to put more than one brigade anywhere.


27 nations currently have troops in iraq, many can be reassigned from other areas, dont assume that just because one country has troops deployed overseas that it leaves no one to be deployed to the US or in many instance redeployed from one nation to another





> Canada has one division, and half of it is in Afghanistan


Canada has 5 divisions active duty, 2 divisions of reserves, that's 60k active duty personnel 





> The UK has a division+


the UK has 7+ divisions active duty, 2.5 divisions territorial, a total of 130k troops




> Germany still has an army (10 divisions - same active duty strength as the US Army)


Germany has 200k active duty troops, 50k conscripts that equates to almost 20 divisions
the US has 1.4 million active duty soldiers, 800k reservists and 500k national guard

know your enemy, learn some math, a division has between 10k and 15k troops, 
an army consists of 50k+ soldiers, seems there is the possibility that troops could 
be deployed anywhere in the world regardless of how many are assigned to 
NATO or the UN currently, I'm sure there's lots of soldiers in other nations wishing 
for a working vacation in the US, all our government has to do is ask

they've already had them training here for years

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## nohbdy

> Gun case wrapped in plastic wrap sprinkled heavy with black pepper.


dogs hit on pepper they'll rip the place apart if the stuff isnt in the kitchen

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## Doktor_Jeep

Guns in the ground.

Might as well bury all of your freedom too. 

What, you think you will be able to tell the JBTs that you lost or sold them and that's that?


They can arrest everybody if they want, and no reason needed. Not in a fiat-money powered system that is used in a prison system where more prisoners means more budget and that means more profits.

Can't arrest everybody you say? How about those illegals awaiting their amnesty and will bring in their 20 cousins each? Oh they can throw you in jail for not having the guns they are looking for, and Jose and cousins will replace you. Easy. And since that culture has a history of being ignorant if not following brush-on-the-shoulder el-presidente they will make perfect sheeple slaves. This is why illegals get away with so much while citizens are scanned, watched, tracked, taxed, and harrassed.


So you think they will move on and you can go dig up the gun and use it, eh? That's exactly what they assume, and the entire system is in place to put 10 million gun owners in lockup. What no evidence of giant prison camps? Don't need it. They can print as much money as they need to have as many tiny prisons everywhere they need them. The enemy learned a lot from the Nazis, like how to do the same as they do but not look like them. Burning books, for example, that's what the Nazis did. So you can't burn them. Instead take over and wreck the education system so youngsters cannot or will not read them. See? No books are burning. Nazis burn books. That mean we not nazis - so go back to grazing, sheeple.

Same with prison camps. Big prison camp is what nazis do. We not have big prison camps. We not nazis. Go back to grazing now.

Keep the guns with you at all times, or at any level of access. OK don't leave them in a glass case at the door.

But it's time to grow up and realize that this is a real game being played for keeps. When the day comes that a gun needs to be buried, is the day you will need to be putting the sites of human targets. You need to be mentally preparing for that instead of getting ready to hide like a kid with a stolen candy bar.

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## nohbdy

> Guns in the ground.
> What, you think you will be able to tell the JBTs that you lost or sold them and that's that?
> 
> 
> They can arrest everybody if they want, and no reason needed.


it's at that point that the disposables will be handy, but it's not like you'll be 
holding off a platoon with anything a civilian has, if they're calling for your arms 
and you put up resistance, it's not like you'll live long enough to eliminate them





> So you think they will move on and you can go dig up the gun and use it, eh? That's exactly what they assume, and the entire system is in place to put 10 million gun owners in lockup. What no evidence of giant prison camps?



rex84, now suddenly I feel so dirty, I'll don my foil hat and beg the reptilians
not to enslave me. if you're not familiar with rex84 do a quick search on youtube

I've been to benning, mcphereson and oakridge... the locations and descriptions 
match, check your area, see what you find

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004...amps3sep04.htm




> Same with prison camps. Big prison camp is what nazis do. We not have big prison camps. We not nazis. Go back to grazing now.


I'm glad we are on the same page, we all know our government wouldn't do
 something like that, we do have rights and they do respect them






> But it's time to grow up and realize that this is a real game being played for keeps. When the day comes that a gun needs to be buried, is the day you will need to be putting the sites of human targets. You need to be mentally preparing for that instead of getting ready to hide like a kid with a stolen candy bar.


you'll run out of ammo long before they do

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## Pericles

> 27 nations currently have troops in iraq, many can be reassigned from other areas, dont assume that just because one country has troops deployed overseas that it leaves no one to be deployed to the US or in many instance redeployed from one nation to another


Here is the list

http://www.nato.int/issues/afghanist...-factsheet.htm

Those 5 guys from Poland must be real ass kickers.





> Canada has 5 divisions active duty, 2 divisions of reserves, that's 60k active duty personnel


http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Engl...on=RegRes&id=1

The Active force consists of the 1, 2, 5 Mech brigades and smaller units not large enough to create another brigade





> the UK has 7+ divisions active duty, 2.5 divisions territorial, a total of 130k troops


1st Armoured - Germany
2nd Div- no combat troops assigned
3rd Div - UK
4th Div - no combat troops assigned
5th Div - HQ for deployed brigades
6th Div - no combat troops assigned

see http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/divisions/default.aspx





> Germany has 200k active duty troops, 50k conscripts that equates to almost 20 divisions
> the US has 1.4 million active duty soldiers, 800k reservists and 500k national guard
> 
> know your enemy, learn some math, a division has between 10k and 15k troops, 
> an army consists of 50k+ soldiers, seems there is the possibility that troops could 
> be deployed anywhere in the world regardless of how many are assigned to 
> NATO or the UN currently, I'm sure there's lots of soldiers in other nations wishing 
> for a working vacation in the US, all our government has to do is ask
> 
> they've already had them training here for years


Just so you know where I'm coming from, my last active duty assignment was S-3/ 2nd BDE / 1AD in Germany (before that I was assigned to the 4th Panzergrenadier Division so I'm somewhat familiar with the German Army) - feel free to list your contributions to the military arts, so your knowledge can be given a suitable amount of credibility.

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## Dave39168

> I hear this from time to time, so I have to ask - "Just who is NATO going to send here for that type of program?"


Good question. maybe not NATO at all. I have no theories ... but this is a good song  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqZ95a249p0


.

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## nohbdy

> Here is the list
> 
> http://www.nato.int/issues/afghanist...-factsheet.htm
> 
> Those 5 guys from Poland must be real ass kickers.



they apparently get support from the 89 US troops that are currently assigned

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## rwbris18

Those who take this post serious... please read _"Unintended Consequences"_ by John Ross.

That book will tell you all you need to know about how...

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## Pericles

> they apparently get support from the 89 US troops that are currently assigned


The list of countries supplying combat troops is a shorter one:

United States
Great Britain
Canada
Germany
Australia
Netherlands

The rest of NATO is "training" the Afghan Army.

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## ihsv

It's not about burying your guns, it's about burying/hiding backups.  As some have pointed out, if they send a lot of soldiers to take our guns, you might as well shoot yourself and get it overwith.  It's suicide.  But being able to have a firearm or two hidden for retrieval later is, I think, sound advice.  It would suck big time if they raided you, took all your guns, and you were left utterly defenseless.  At least if you have one or two well-hidden weapons you won't be up a creek without a paddle.

Again, the idea is not to bury them all.  It's to plan ahead for a bad scenario.

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## N.cognito1776

Yes, you can bury or hide your guns for the "in case: situation.

If they don't know you own the gun, now that is the real hiding of weapons.

There will be some sort of national tragedy that will cause mass hysteria, the government will step in with martial law declared on major cities nationwide.

I believe it will be some sort of food crisis. When there isn't enough food, and the dollar is devalued "They" will come, to quell the populace.

We must stand together, band together with dozens of fellow patriots all in one house and fly these flags:



The Gonzalez "Come and Take It Flag"


Gadsden Flag




Be ready, don't let them take our nation.

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## N.cognito1776

OH and by the way, on the subject of WHO they will send to fight us.


In case you forgot, the US military signed an illegal treaty with the Canadian army.

All they have to do is make one call, and thousands of Canadian troops will roll across our extremely porous border.

While our troops are off in Iraq and Afghanistan and wherever else, Canadian troops will invade our homes.

Along, with mercenaries, ex. Blackwater, Canadian troops will be able to kill us, as we are not their countrymen.

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## nohbdy

> The list of countries supplying combat troops is a shorter one:



NATO claims the US currently has 2400 troops in the whole of the middle east, the 
US currently has 34,000 in Iraq alone according to the DoD... who's numbers do we believe

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## nohbdy

> I believe it will be some sort of food crisis.



drought in the south east, flooding in the midwest, petrol companies buying 
up the grains for eco-fuels... seems that the food crisis could occur

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## Pericles

> NATO claims the US currently has 2400 troops in the whole of the middle east, the 
> US currently has 34,000 in Iraq alone according to the DoD... who's numbers do we believe


The NATO numbers are US troops assigned to NATO missions. Not everything the US does in the Middle East is a NATO mission. For all practical purposes - NATO is training the Afghan Army and conducting a defense of the Afghan Government. On rare occasions, NATO will chase AQ. That sort of thing is left to the US and the incidental Brit. The US is on its own in Iraq.

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## xd9fan

> If they try house to house gun confiscation, the $#@! will literally hit the fan. Keep them ready, not buried. That's just my view on it though.


yep

People!! If its time to bury them.....its really time to use them

lets not wait to have a warsaw ghetto-like response (because as great and telling as the warsaw response was.....they got backbone too late in the game) god bless them all

lets learn from history

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## thesnoo23

If you look at the current numbers(which may be accurate or not, I haven't looked at them, as they are irrelevant), they may say that no one has enough troops to send here. Fine. 

For the moment. But think about this. There's over 6 _billion_ people on this planet.

How hard would it be for a government, any government, to go out, collect up say...20,000 hungry, broke, former upper middle class home owners or whatever, and say, "Hey, come over here, train for a few weeks, and we'll feed you, and give you a little spending money for the wife. All you're going to have to do is take some guns away from those crazy, violent americans."

Seriously. When the odds are 50 to 1, the 50 don't exactly have to be special forces or SAS or anything. All they have to do is knock down your door, one of them shoves a gun in your face while ten of his buddies tear your house apart, and the other 39 smoke, joke, and be prepared to provide supporting fire, should you get excessively energetic.

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## LiveToWin

If they (The British  ) attempt house to house weapon confiscations its time to start shooting. 




BTW, anyone here affiliated with appleseed, will there ever be an event in New Jersey? I want to go to one but I have not seen any that are taking place in NJ.

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## Pericles

> If you look at the current numbers(which may be accurate or not, I haven't looked at them, as they are irrelevant), they may say that no one has enough troops to send here. Fine. 
> 
> For the moment. But think about this. There's over 6 _billion_ people on this planet.
> 
> How hard would it be for a government, any government, to go out, collect up say...20,000 hungry, broke, former upper middle class home owners or whatever, and say, "Hey, come over here, train for a few weeks, and we'll feed you, and give you a little spending money for the wife. All you're going to have to do is take some guns away from those crazy, violent americans."
> 
> Seriously. When the odds are 50 to 1, the 50 don't exactly have to be special forces or SAS or anything. All they have to do is knock down your door, one of them shoves a gun in your face while ten of his buddies tear your house apart, and the other 39 smoke, joke, and be prepared to provide supporting fire, should you get excessively energetic.


That approach might work the first time, but after that, guess who will be hitting them in their staging areas before they can even set themselves up to conduct a raid. After the first raid happens, the gloves will come off.

Its hard to get many people to volunteer for activities that have a short life expectancy.

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## ihsv

Gun confiscations prolly won't be carried out nation-wide i.e., all at once. It'll be small areas at a time, and most people will sit on their fat, flabby butts because it isn't happening to them.. yet.

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## pcosmar

I have no firearms to bury. 
I have no firearms at all.
I am infringed.

However, when the time comes, I am sure I will "find"one somewhere.

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## ghengis86

> I have no firearms to bury. 
> I have no firearms at all.
> I am infringed.
> 
> However, when the time comes, I am sure I will "find"one somewhere.


my thoughts too.  if you have a gun hidden somewhere and can use it, you'll be able to get plenty more with ease.  if you don't have one, you can pull a soviet style 're-arming' from the corpses or use the million other methods to drop a thug.

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## ihsv

> I have no firearms to bury. 
> I have no firearms at all.
> I am infringed.
> 
> However, when the time comes, I am sure I will "find"one somewhere.


Or, find a buddy who may be willing to "lend" you one when the time comes.

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## pcosmar

> Or, find a buddy who may be willing to "lend" you one when the time comes.


I have a few friends. 
But that is one thing that I would NOT EVEN ask. At least until the time comes.

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## tmosley

It's good to cache weapons, if only to make travel easier.  If you have a cache out in the woods, and they have roadblocks all around your city, and you are trying to get to a militia staging point, it's going to be better to not have to try to get the guns through the roadblocks.

Seriously, that's, like, insurgent tactics 101.

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## ghengis86

> It's good to cache weapons, if only to make travel easier.  If you have a cache out in the woods, and they have roadblocks all around your city, and you are trying to get to a militia staging point, it's going to be better to not have to try to get the guns through the roadblocks.
> 
> Seriously, that's, like, *insurgent* tactics 101.


don't you mean *Patriot* tactics 101?

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## tmosley

> don't you mean *Patriot* tactics 101?


You tomato, I say tomahto.

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## LiveToWin

Insurgent - 

in-sur-gent(noun)
1. *rebel*
somebody who rebels against authority or leadership, especially somebody who belongs to a group involved in an uprising
2. *political rebel*
a member of a political party who rebels against the party leaders or policies
 
in-sur-gent(adjective)
*rebellious*
rebelling against authority or leadership, especially against a government or ruler of a country

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## SevenEyedJeff

> However I like the idea in Terminator 3 where they put a ton of weapons in a coffin. No one will ever look there for sure.


Yes, maybe in a funeral home. But if there's a coffin in your home, it would be the first place I would look.

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## james1844

Look - this posting is exhorting people to break the law.  Yank it immediately. 




> that sounds dandy, it's good to keep an cheap shotgun and pistol around just for 
> the purposes of defense against intruders and anyone trying to lay claim to your 
> arms, problem is if you have a platoon on your door step seeking to take your 
> guns, where do you go, start shooting and you'll defeat the purpose of true resistance
> 
> first things first, you dont know me, you have no need but what I have to say is 
> important, I've noticed from lurking that some of you have a small arsenal, plenty 
> of ammo, etc. that's great, now may be a good time to stash it but seeing as how 
> our country has no gun registration but lots of paperwork associated with guns, 
> ...

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## ihsv

> Look - this posting is exhorting people to break the law.  Yank it immediately.


One nice thing about this country is there is such a thing as freedom of speech, a constitutionally protected right that allows people to say what's on their mind, whether the law approves of it or not.  If you don't like it, ignore it.

Just curious: If a law is passed that orders you to turn in all your guns to your local sheriff, are you planning on "breaking the law" or complying?

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## xd9fan

boys and girls....if its time to bury them...its time to use them.

This will be a test on really how much you believe in liberty....and will to do something about it.

retreat never worked well for me in life.

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## phill4paul

> boys and girls....if its time to bury them...its time to use them.
> 
> This will be a test on really how much you believe in liberty....and will to do something about it.
> 
> retreat never worked well for me in life.



Sun-Tzu:

  All warfare is based on deception. *Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable;* when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

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## B964

> One nice thing about this country is there is such a thing as freedom of speech, a constitutionally protected right that allows people to say what's on their mind, whether the law approves of it or not.  If you don't like it, ignore it.
> 
> Just curious: If a law is passed that orders you to turn in all your guns to your local sheriff, are you planning on "breaking the law" or complying?


Right.

Freedom of speech MUST include the freedom to discuss the un-lawfull. Otherwise it is useless.

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## asimplegirl

I wont bury, just like I wont lock, keep unloaded, anything of the sort.

I want everything I own for defense available to me when I need it and not a moment later.

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## ihsv

> I wont bury, just like I wont lock, keep unloaded, anything of the sort.
> 
> I want everything I own for defense available to me when I need it and not a moment later.


I think what I was driving at when I started this thread was not so much burying your guns, but burying/hiding a _backup_.   This may or may not apply to your situation, but for some the possibility of being caught off guard is a danger that can't be discounted.  No matter how "ready" you think you are, Murphy's Law inevitably comes into play.  To me, it makes sense to have one or two backup pieces that are strategically hidden in such an event.  

I, too, won't lock my weapons or keep them unloaded.  But I do think it's prudent to plan for the unexpected.

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## ihsv

> boys and girls....if its time to bury them...its time to use them.
> 
> This will be a test on really how much you believe in liberty....and will to do something about it.
> 
> retreat never worked well for me in life.


I agree.  But, as I pointed out above, this is discussing _backups_, not your primary defense weapons. 

I'm not advocating burying your guns and hoping they believe your story when you tell them you "sold" them.  You might as well just turn them in in that case.

What I am advocating is planning for the unexpected.

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## asimplegirl

> I think what I was driving at when I started this thread was not so much burying your guns, but burying/hiding a _backup_.   This may or may not apply to your situation, but for some the possibility of being caught off guard is a danger that can't be discounted.  No matter how "ready" you think you are, Murphy's Law inevitably comes into play.  To me, it makes sense to have one or two backup pieces that are strategically hidden in such an event.  
> 
> I, too, won't lock my weapons or keep them unloaded.  But I do think it's prudent to plan for the unexpected.


Why would you bury though?

People are acting like they will go door to door and take your guns.  Even government isn't that dumb.  Do you know how many officers will be killed if these were the orders?

I won't even bury a backup.  Nope, I will, however, bury some lead into anyone I feel a threat in a bad situation.  My stuff is hidden.  In the open INSIDE MY HOME, which no one has a right to enter, and won't or will be killed.  Period.

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## phill4paul

> Why would you bury though?
> 
> People are acting like they will go door to door and take your guns.  Even government isn't that dumb.  Do you know how many officers will be killed if these were the orders?
> 
> I won't even bury a backup.  Nope, I will, however, bury some lead into anyone I feel a threat in a bad situation.  My stuff is hidden.  In the open INSIDE MY HOME, which no one has a right to enter, and won't or will be killed.  Period.


  Did they go door to door in the aftermath of Katrina? Do they go door to door in Iraq?

   I am in agreement with the O.P., and of course he is talking about back-ups and ammo storage.

  It is one thing for anyone to pump up their chests it is another thing to stare reality in the face when unprepared.

  No one can ever envision every instance in which any segment of the population may be disarmed. 

  "Mr. or Mrs. So and So, we have removed your child from school and taken them to a safe location during this crisis. We will re-unite you with them, however for the safety of all we must make sure that you are carrying no firearms and that there are no firearms within your dwelling that might be taken by the evil-doers during your absence. We assure you that they will be returned once this crisis is under control. Let's hurry now your child is waiting."

  Probable, no. Possible, I wouldn't put it past any government that denies the sovereignty of the individual.

  Many a peoples, I am sure, wished that they had a cache of weapons after their government coerced them to give up their only means of self defense.

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## ihsv

> Why would you bury though?


The idea is to hide it, not necessarily bury it.  You could hide it under the commode or in a hollowed-out rafter; it doesn't matter.

As to "why" would someone hide it?  In case something happened to your primary weapons, whether they be stolen, confiscated, etc.  You may have your home built like a fortress, and you may always be there to keep an eye on things.  But for the rest of us, that's not necessarily the case.  




> People are acting like they will go door to door and take your guns.  Even government isn't that dumb.  Do you know how many officers will be killed if these were the orders?


Can you guarantee that they won't?  None of us are soothsayers or have crystal balls to tell the future, and I would rather be ready for any scenario whether it be likely or not.  




> I won't even bury a backup.  Nope, I will, however, bury some lead into anyone I feel a threat in a bad situation.  My stuff is hidden.  In the open INSIDE MY HOME, which no one has a right to enter, and won't or will be killed.  Period.


That's your choice.  You know your situation better than I.  As for me, I would like to cover all my bases.

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## asimplegirl

> Did they go door to door in the aftermath of Katrina? Do they go door to door in Iraq?
> 
>    I am in agreement with the O.P., and of course he is talking about back-ups and ammo storage.
> 
>   It is one thing for anyone to pump up their chests it is another thing to stare reality in the face when unprepared.
> 
>   No one can ever envision every instance in which any segment of the population may be disarmed. 
> 
>   "Mr. or Mrs. So and So, we have removed your child from school and taken them to a safe location during this crisis. We will re-unite you with them, however for the safety of all we must make sure that you are carrying no firearms and that there are no firearms within your dwelling that might be taken by the evil-doers during your absence. We assure you that they will be returned once this crisis is under control. Let's hurry now your child is waiting."
> ...



I do not live in Iraq, or NOLA, and in the case of NOLA, the cops would have been shot, simple as that.

I have my guns around me at all times, we are never unarmed, and no one will go into my home without my permission, and damned sure wouldn't get my guns.  This is why I won't bury them, or hide them.

BTW, we do not have any children in any schools, we are unschoolers.  Children are to not be without the parents.  Sorry, no one will ever convince me to hide bury weapons.



> Can you guarantee that they won't? None of us are soothsayers or have crystal balls to tell the future, and I would rather be ready for any scenario whether it be likely or not.


Can I promise they will never TRY? NO.  Can I promise they will not take my guns without me dying first? YES.

And, I get what you are saying, but, yes, I am always home, when I am not, we carry more than one gun with us.  So, no this situation might not fit everyone, but for me...I wouldn't do it.

And, if you are burying your guns or ammo,  I would say that it's time for you to have them with you...as your safety is such a priority you are concerened with it.  That's just my way of thinking though.

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## phill4paul

> I do not live in Iraq, or NOLA, and in the case of NOLA, the cops would have been shot, simple as that.
> 
> I have my guns around me at all times, we are never unarmed, and no one will go into my home without my permission, and damned sure wouldn't get my guns.  This is why I won't bury them, or hide them.
> 
> BTW, we do not have any children in any schools, we are unschoolers.  Children are to not be without the parents.  Sorry, no one will ever convince me to hide bury weapons.
> 
> 
> Can I promise they will never TRY? NO.  Can I promise they will not take my guns without me dying first? YES.
> 
> ...


  Fair enough, and I commend you on homeschooling. You say that you always travel with your weapons and again I commend you.

  I still hold that we can never envision every circumstance in which our weapons may be confiscated. 

  Maybe, on a trip into town with your kids in the backseat you encounter a road block. They are searching every vehicle and confiscating every weapon. You are outnumbered and under gunned.
  With your children in the backseat do you come out with your semi-auto handgun blazing? Or would you submit?

  As I said it is one thing to beat our chests in a war cry "From my cold dead hands." It is quite another when there is more than just ourselves to think of and that occupation, even by your own government, would be a drawn out affair.

  The first round will go to those that have over whelming force and fire power. Those that resist will be portrayed on the evening news as mad individuals or operatives that opened fire on agents acting for the good of society.

  Then again it may *NEVER* happen and harm/no foul if you decide to keep an unregulated and hidden back-up.

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## asimplegirl

> Fair enough, and I commend you on homeschooling. You say that you always travel with your weapons and again I commend you.
> 
>   I still hold that we can never envision every circumstance in which our weapons may be confiscated. 
> 
>   Maybe, on a trip into town with your kids in the backseat you encounter a road block. They are searching every vehicle and confiscating every weapon. You are outnumbered and under gunned.
>   With your children in the backseat do you come out with your semi-auto handgun blazing? Or would you submit?
> 
> You never have ALL Of them in the same place, still don't mean you have to bury them..and confiscation only happens if you allow it to.
> *
> ...


................... again my lifestyle doesn't work for everyone.

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## ihsv

> And, if you are burying your guns or ammo,  I would say that it's time for you to have them with you...


For the *final* time, we are talking about a a *BACKUP FIREARM*.  *Not* the primary weapons!  Good GRIEF!  You behave as if burying a *backup* is the same as disarming yourself.   

You can do whatever you want with your guns.  That's your concern.  You can bury them or not bury them.  But not all of us are in your situation.  I started this thread to open a discussion about _hiding backup firearms_; having a _reserve_ weapon hidden _in case_ the unexpected happens, however probable or improbable that may be.

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## phill4paul

NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

National Guard Confiscating Guns in New Orleans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC...eature=related

Boston Police Go Door to Door Looking For Guns:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1us...eature=related

  Never in America.

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## xd9fan

> Sun-Tzu:
> 
> All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.


this is real cute...worthless but cute

take a look around...take in and assess are average american
my prior statement stands




> NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
> 
> National Guard Confiscating Guns in New Orleans:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC...eature=related
> 
> Boston Police Go Door to Door Looking For Guns:
> ...


Its great that the NRA can file papers and walk tall in a paper filing world........but as I have said again and again,  unless you see politicans and cops doing the perp-walk for crimes against the Bill of Rights.....NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!!!

They simply dont fear doing this again.

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## phill4paul

> this is real cute...worthless but cute
> 
> take a look around...take in and assess are average american


  I don't believe I was talking about average Americans. I believe I was addressing a liberty minded forums in a bearing arms thread on the prudence of backups.




> Its great that the NRA can file papers and walk tall in a paper filing world........but as I have said again and again,  unless you see politicans and cops doing the perp-walk for crimes against the Bill of Rights.....NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!!!
> 
> They simply dont fear doing this again.


  Quite true.

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## xd9fan

> I don't believe I was talking about average Americans. I believe I was addressing a liberty minded forums in a bearing arms thread on the prudence of backups.


oh...well...then my bad.

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## Chosen

Best methods for caching are presented in this manual:

TC 31-29 Special Forces - Caching Techniques.pdf

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## ihsv

Thanks for the info, Chosen

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## Chosen

> Thanks for the info, Chosen


Welcome.

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## armslist

The biggest problem is finding the right deals on guns.  Everything is so inflated right now.

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## Chosen

There is a scarcity due to high demand for both guns and ammo, that's true.

But I think you can still find some decent deals at local gun shows or thru classifieds.

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## N.cognito1776

Keep your weapons close, and your ammo closer.

But I am going to have to say, that hiding caches will probably be what will allow us to carry out any major offensives against whatever threat there is in the future.

We will need thousands of round of ammunition, hundreds if not thousands of guns. We'll also need certain weapons which aren't legal to own, such as rpg's and the sort.

Personally I won't be hiding any weapons 

I'll just keep it in my house, because I only have one 


Like Dr. Paul said in Minnesota, he told us to look at what Vietnam did with AK-47's, just imagine what we can do with good shooting skills and great firearms.

Australia, South Africa, Great Britain, & other nations have already disarmed their citizens. In South Africa guns are so highly regulated and restricted that criminals find it easier to murder police officers to obtain their guns than to attempt to purchase one.


I have seen footage of the guns being scrapped in Australia, tonnes and tonnes of guns being melted down, in the name of peace. And yet these nations build up their military's.

Prepare, quietly, decide that if at a moment's notice, you can be ready to disappear into the wilderness to meet up with other patriots and be equipped, not only with gear but, the knowledge of how to survive isolated. Read the strategies and tactics of gone generals and current military manuals.

Some speculate that they will attempt to tax the bullets so high to make them practically unaffordable.

Whatever the circumstances, when they decide to trample all over the 2nd Amendment I will be ready to make my stand, I hope you will stand with me.

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## Chosen

I would also add something that you may not extrapolate from the manual I posted above.

It is important that you check on your cache. I know this sounds obvious, but it is really in how you check on it that should be of concern. When doing so, do not be obvious or overt. It should appear as if you are simply in the area. Move past the cache, glancing to discover dig marks, moved objects etc. Whether or not you notice signs of discovery, continue moving on. Do not spend anytime around the cache or allow yourself any obvious observation of the area.

Always utilize counter surveillance before examining your cache.

Never return to your cache at the same time, in the same manner or from the same approach. Regardless of how much time has elapsed. Quite often, cache points can be points of ambush, intel gathering and trapping. Consider this.

Also, consider deploying false caches.

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## RayDog

I'll admit that I didn't read any of the above posts other than the title. If its time to burry them it's time to use them.

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## phill4paul

> I'll admit that I didn't read any of the above posts other than the title. If its time to burry them it's time to use them.


  Not quite so fast Raydog. The O.P. is asking about "burying" as in cacheing, *backups.* Not your personal carry front line defense weapons.

  That point has, and continues to be lost in a number of these threads.

----------

