# Start Here > Guest Forum >  Why do Paulites have no empathy for immigrants?

## 56ktarget

I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.

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## anaconda

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


I think that there is a tax services issue perhaps. And the issue that someone gets a cut in line over someone else? That other person may be a very fine and productive person as well. But many libertarian types don't care much for closed borders. They do get quite perturbed with forced transfer payments, however. But it certainly is not your cousin's fault. The issue is a political football and the government is neither consistent nor trustworthy. And some people here are probably not thrilled that your cousin will in all likelihood vote for a Council On Foreign Relations endorsed Democrat. But I sincerely hope things work out well for your cousin.

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## tod evans

Government is waging war in several countries and now in Mo. and you're worried about immigration..

Take your tambourine and bandwagon to the street corner and find someone who gives a $#@!.

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## TER

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


You generate interesting discussions at times, but your use of the label 'Paulites' makes you lose a lot of respect.  Why don't you educate us about which immigration laws you think the people on this forum should learn instead of isolating yourself and others and collectivizing everyone here under a pejorative, especially on a topic which you will find great and varying different opinions on here.  Is it for attention you do this?

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## 56ktarget

@tod evans
Like it or not bud, immigration is an issue that affects millions of Americans, if not the whole country. Your callous remark betrays your short-sightedness about important issues. As for that last remark, obviously you do, since it made you angry enough to comment on it lol what an (mod edit).

@TER "Ron paul fans" is too long to spell out. I don't mean any disrespect with that term, what else am I supposed to call you guys.

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## tod evans

> @tod evans
> Like it or not bud, immigration is an issue that affects millions of Americans, if not the whole country. Your callous remark betrays your short-sightedness about important issues. As for that last remark, obviously you do, since it made you angry enough to comment on it lol what an (mod edit).
> .


Immigration may be an important issue to you.

I happen to find it far less important than war.

And I'm not even discussing your personal stake in the matter which negates anything you may have to say on the subject.

Pull up your little red pantaloons, don your gold filigree vest and bang away on that tambourine...

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## 56ktarget

Yeah, I'm sure when you have a personal stake in something, your opinion is negated. That's why no one listens lawyers. Oh wait.

Yeah, I'm sure you don't have a personal stake in our militaristic foreign policy. You obviously don't pay taxes. Oh wait.

LOL can this guy not see how hypocritical he is being? Lol please don't comment again, you are embarrassing yourself.

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## tod evans

Bang-bang...

Maybe somebody will listen.......

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## Ronin Truth

We love immigrants, criminal aliens not so much.  Mexico treats criminal aliens caught in their country much worse than we do here. Last time I checked The US is pretty well filled up.

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## kcchiefs6465

> We love immigrants, criminal aliens not so much.  Mexico treats criminal aliens caught in their country much worse than we do here. Last time I checked The US is pretty well filled up.


Lol.

I wouldn't even know where to begin.

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## Ronin Truth

> Lol.
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to begin.


 How about start at the beginning, proceed on through the middle, then when you get to the end, stop? I've found that process usually works out pretty well.

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## juleswin

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


You (mod edit), you do not have a cousin who has been in the country since he was 5 yrs cos if you did he would tell you that the easiest way of getting a green card is through marriage. The mother or father marrying your uncle/aunt or him marrying someone who is an American citizen. That is the easiest way of getting your green card.

Also, I think the complaint is more about people coming in and abusing the welfare system than anything. There is a very high chance that a low skilled immigrant coming into this country is going to end up taking from the system more than they contribute. This will cause a drain to the already limited resources left to take care of the people in the country and most importantly will encourage more and more and more illegal immigration of those people who are seeking welfare from the states if something is not done about it. Personally, I think ending the welfare system will stop most of the immigrants coming to this country with their kids.

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## 56ktarget

LOL bro, it's pretty $#@!ing plain that my cousin's parents are immigrants themselves. Therefore he can't get it from them. And newsflash you (mod edit), most people dont get married at 21. And most americans I know wouldn't get married to a person of a different nationality. How (mod edit) can you get?

And please be more (mod edit) specific when you say immigrants abuse the welfare system. What welfare do they use again? As a former immigrant myself (I was lucky my parents got it before and sponsored me) I know they don't qualify for the vast majority of federal and state social programs. Medicare? Lol. Social Security? You gotta be kidding me. Free lunch? Hahaha. Don't believe me? Every major study done on this proves immigrants often contribute more money to the govt than they take in. Please don't bother responding if all you are going to post is unfiltered garbage.

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## Ronin Truth

> LOL bro, it's pretty $#@!ing plain that my cousin's parents are immigrants themselves. Therefore he can't get it from them. And newsflash you (mod edit), most people dont get married at 21. And most americans I know wouldn't get married to a person of a different nationality. How (mod edit) can you get?
> 
> And please be more (mod edit) specific when you say immigrants abuse the welfare system. What welfare do they use again? As a former immigrant myself (I was lucky my parents got it before and sponsored me) I know they don't qualify for the vast majority of federal and state social programs. Medicare? Lol. Social Security? You gotta be kidding me. Free lunch? Hahaha. Don't believe me? Every major study done on this proves immigrants often contribute more money to the govt than they take in. Please don't bother responding if all you are going to post is unfiltered garbage.


You're right it's $#@! here, take you and your family back where you all came from, or even somewhere else better.

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## juleswin

> LOL bro, it's pretty $#@!ing plain that my cousin's parents are immigrants themselves. Therefore he can't get it from them. And newsflash you (mod edit), most people dont get married at 21. And most americans I know wouldn't get married to a person of a different nationality. How (mod edit) can you get?
> 
> And please be more (mod edit) specific when you say immigrants abuse the welfare system. What welfare do they use again? As a former immigrant myself (I was lucky my parents got it before and sponsored me) I know they don't qualify for the vast majority of federal and state social programs. Medicare? Lol. Social Security? You gotta be kidding me. Free lunch? Hahaha. Don't believe me? Every major study done on this proves immigrants often contribute more money to the govt than they take in. Please don't bother responding if all you are going to post is unfiltered garbage.


I am a fairly recent immigrant myself and quite a few of my country men in this country have problems with their papers so I know a ton about this. The marriage I talk about is marriage fraud or somethings its for real but this is something you will know about if you actually had a cousin who was an immigrant. Its really not that hard to find a poor citizen who needs money just to marry for business. The going price is around 10k and maybe you wouldn't do it but a lot of people do it for that price. 

The school system is definitely the biggest source of welfare, hospitals with prenatal, delivery and post natal care and once they have a child in the system then they can qualify for welfare for that child and more, but to be honest, this is an area where I try not to pry too much into their activities but I can find out more and report back to you. I know about the marriage stuff because I have been approached quite a few times to help someone out and no, I haven't done it yet.

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## 56ktarget

> You're right it's $#@! here, take you and your family back where you all came from, or even somewhere else better.


Ahh, its nice to see Paulites reaching out. The classic "go back where you came from" quote. And still you will claim you are not xenophobic/racist. Ahaha.

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## LibertyEagle

> @tod evans
> Like it or not bud, immigration is an issue that affects millions of Americans, if not the whole country. Your callous remark betrays your short-sightedness about important issues. As for that last remark, obviously you do, since it made you angry enough to comment on it lol what an idiot.
> 
> @TER "Ron paul fans" is too long to spell out. I don't mean any disrespect with that term, what else am I supposed to call you guys.


Immigrants <> ILLEGAL ALIENS

Tell me, how would an illegal alien be treated in Mexico?  Would they give them free medical, free education and free every other damn thing?  Hell no.  So, where do you get  off thinking you have any right at all to enter America and demand same?  We have laws here.  Follow them.

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## CaptUSA

I'm not sure who you're talking about.  I love immigration.  If someone wants to come here to add value to our country, then they shall surely be rewarded.

The problem is that we have installed a beacon that attracts those who do not want to _provide_ value, but to consume it.  It's called the welfare state.  Whether it's education, health care, food, housing, or any other freebie.  We also have drug laws which create criminal elements.  These things create a strain on the system instead of adding value to it.

I would much rather deal with those problems then build some stupid wall or hire more government employees to try to stop the water from coming over the dam.  If we can do those things, immigration laws will no longer be a problem.  It will become much easier for those who truly want to come here for the American dream.

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## fr33

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


You don't know what you are talking about when you paint with this broad brush. Many of us here are for open borders.

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## staerker

If you are in favor of impeding physical movement, by governmental force, you are a statist.

It doesn't matter what your reasons are, you are a statist.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


My wife is from another country and is now a US citizen.  I researched immigration law because we did the entire process without hiring an attorney.  You're right about the difficulty, but there are many other things that are a lot more difficult.  I married overseas, so H1B visas are not the only sure fire way of getting a green card.

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## Ronin Truth

> Ahh, its nice to see Paulites reaching out. The classic "go back where you came from" quote. And still you will claim you are not xenophobic/racist. Ahaha.


  You were/are the one bitching about how unfair and awful it is here.  I merely invited your and your's to leave.  Since you are obviously unhappy AND *DO NOT BELONG HERE*.  

Screw the phony "reaching out" BS.

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## Ronin Truth

> If you are in favor of impeding physical movement, by governmental force, you are a statist.
> 
> It doesn't matter what your reasons are, you are a statist.


  In case you haven't noticed we ain't living in a libertarian utopia yet.  WAKE UP!

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## staerker

> In case you haven't noticed we ain't living in a libertarian utopia yet.  WAKE UP!


That in no way changes what I said above.

You are either against statism, or in favor of it.

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## Ronin Truth

> That in no way changes what I said above.
> 
> You are either against statism, or in favor of it.


  Actually it does. I was radical libertarian probably long before you were even born.  WAKE UP!

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## thoughtomator

> If you are in favor of impeding physical movement, by governmental force, you are a statist.
> 
> It doesn't matter what your reasons are, you are a statist.



Well then, by your standard, Ron Paul is a statist, along with everyone else not 100% on board with anarcho-capitalism.

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## staerker

> Actually it does. I was radical libertarian probably long before you were even born.  WAKE UP!


Appeals to authority mean nothing to me, especially when the authority is nameless.

If you would like to respond to my original comment in a logical way, go ahead.

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## staerker

> Well then, by your standard, Ron Paul is a statist, along with everyone else not 100% on board with anarcho-capitalism.


An attempt to make Ron Paul look better doesn't change the meaning of my comment. My point: there is not much else in the world more authoritarian than restricting physical movement.

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## Ronin Truth

> Appeals to authority mean nothing to me, especially when the authority is nameless.
> 
> If you would like to respond to my original comment in a logical way, go ahead.


 I reject the validity of your premise and your false dichotomy. (How's that?)

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## Christian Liberty

Here's the problem, national borders exist.  I'd agree that they shouldn't, but they do.  I don't agree with forbidding people to cross them, but at the same time, that's a problem that was sort of created by the State anyway.  And, we don't live in an ancap society yet.  So, I don't really see immigration restrictions, disagree with them though I do, as the worst of all governmental evils.  Even still, I can't justify them.

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## staerker

> I reject the validity of your premise and your false dichotomy. (How's that?)


Then you must also reject the validity of the articles in your sig.

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## specsaregood

> You are either against statism, or in favor of it.


Proud Statist right here.

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## acptulsa

> "Ron paul fans" is too long to spell out. I don't mean any disrespect with that term, what else am I supposed to call you guys.


If you were to think of us as individuals, instead of some kind of monolithic crowd of identical robots, and do a little reading here instead of just lobbing insults and running away, you might discover to your shock and awe that some of the people here are the biggest fans of open borders the whole of the United States can produce.

You are bitching at your best friends while your enemies laugh at you for choosing the wrong target.

Ignorance isn't so bad if you remember the old adage--'It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.'

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## Cleaner44

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


Why do you start a thread with an $#@! collectivist statement that can't even be true?

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## Ronin Truth

> Then you must also reject the validity of the articles in your sig.


I'm sorry, I now require two valid premises that lead to a valid logical conclusion with no committed fallacies.

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## Ronin Truth

> Why do you start a thread with an $#@! collectivist statement that can't even be true?


 Your question contains the answer.

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## staerker

> I'm sorry, I now require two valid premises that lead to a valid logical conclusion with no committed fallacies.


lol. I do not think I have ever once had a real discussion with anyone on this topic. Neither in person or on the internet. I will say again, if you want to respond to my original comment in a logical way, go ahead. Otherwise have fun satirizing yourself, and consider yourself bested.

edit: But if you do, explain why you are so quick to dismiss your own posted articles. Maybe read them again, then come back and continue discussing.

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## Ronin Truth

> lol. I do not think I have ever once had a real discussion with anyone on this topic. Neither in person or on the internet. I will say again, if you want to respond to my original comment in a logical way, go ahead. Otherwise have fun satirizing yourself, and consider yourself bested.


Non-sequiter!

Redundantly: *I reject the validity of your premise and your false dichotomy. (How's that?)

*You may eventually discover that reading for comprehension often works wonders.

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## staerker

> Non-sequiter!
> 
> Redundantly: *I reject the validity of your premise and your false dichotomy. (How's that?)
> 
> *You may eventually discover that reading for comprehension often works wonders.


Exactly. This is what a man gets for saying 'logical' once. Let every witness see that Ronin Truth has no response.

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## Ronin Truth

> Exactly. This is what a man gets for saying 'logical' once. Let every witness see that Ronin Truth has no response.


Which word is causing your comprehension difficulty? Validity? Premise? False? Dichotomy?

I strongly advise that you quit while you're far behind and playing far outside your league.

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## oyarde

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


I have nothing against any immigrant . I also have no real interest in the debate. Last I looked at immigration law , it looked to be pretty screwed up to me. By other countries standards though , it may be generous .If you eliminate  Fed govt from everywhere it does not belong , I imagine there would be little problem with immigration.

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## staerker

> Which word is causing your comprehension difficulty? Validity? Premise? False? Dichotomy?
> 
> I strongly advise that you quit while you're far behind and playing far outside your league.


Premise: Jesus was an anarchist

Dichotomy: You are either against statism, or in favor of it. 

Validity? You tell me. Try arguing instead of using terms that mean nothing.

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## jllundqu

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


As someone who has worked for ICE, you are completely misinformed on this subject.  To use your term, your 'amount of ignorance' is ironic.  Getting a H1B visa is a temporary measure (non immigrant) that lets one stay legally for three years (up to six).  In order to get the 'green card' or Permanent Resident Alien/Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR), it is a completely different process.  THEN one must be a LPR for 5 years without committing crimes involving moral terpitude (to quote the Immigration and Nationality Acy [INA]).  Once these requirements are met (absent military service or some other exceptions) a LPR can APPLY to become a USCitizen.  They must pass the test, learn basic communicative English, and join this country LEGALLY and PROUDLY.

People who just sneak across the border or overstay their VISA and remain illegally without status have no respect for this country.  They simply wish to take advantage of our lax border enforcement and hefty entitlement and welfare state while cutting in front of millions of respectable LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who play by the rules.

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## Ronin Truth

> Premise: Jesus was an anarchist
> 
> Dichotomy: You are either against statism, or in favor of it. 
> 
> Validity? You tell me. Try arguing instead of using terms that mean nothing.


http://logic.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/

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## staerker

> http://logic.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/


"http://logic.philosophy.ox.ac.uk/" is hardly a response. lol

I am not going to build your argument for you.

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## kcchiefs6465

> We love immigrants, criminal aliens not so much.  Mexico treats criminal aliens caught in their country much worse than we do here. Last time I checked The US is pretty well filled up.





> Lol.
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to begin.





> How about start at the beginning, proceed on through the middle, then when you get to the end, stop? I've found that process usually works out pretty well.


Okay, I guess I'll oblige.

1.) I am unaware of how you could consider yourself an anarchist with the acceptance of imaginary state defined lines of where one can and cannot travel without particular pieces of state approved paper. Perhaps we need more ICE agents?

2.) What should I care what Mexico does? In Uganda they hang gays. I don't particularly see how that's relevant to the conversation aside from for one to point out simply that we ought not to. Even accepting your premise I'd simply say, 'so?' Should we treat 'criminal aliens' worse? (that is, migrants who have the audacity to seek employment with willing employers without government approval)

3.) The US is pretty filled up? Says who? What are you using to base that opinion on? Have you ever been to Nebraska? South Dakota? Montana? Idaho? Hell, even Ohio (one of the most populous states) has wide open country side.

I guess that wasn't as time consuming as I thought. I had a few more than a few last night so that's probably why I didn't particularly feel like typing this.

I find it somewhat amusing that you are an anarchist advocating for the state. More criminal than any peasant traveling here for employment would be those who derive their paychecks from the robbery of all.

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## Ronin Truth

> Okay, I guess I'll oblige.
> 
> 
> 
> 1.) I am unaware of how you could consider yourself an anarchist with the acceptance of imaginary state defined lines of where one can and cannot travel without particular pieces of state approved paper. Perhaps we need more ICE agents?
> 
> *There are any number of things in my life and on this planet that do not conform to my preferences and wishes. I can choose to adapt and accept reality or resist and fight it. Under the current scenarios I will be extorted to help pay for the criminal aliens that continue to arrive in increasing numbers.* 
> 
> 2.) What should I care what Mexico does? In Uganda they hang gays. I don't particularly see how that's relevant to the conversation aside from for one to point out simply that we ought not to. Even accepting your premise I'd simply say, 'so?' Should we treat 'criminal aliens' worse? (that is, migrants who have the audacity to seek employment with willing employers without government approval)
> ...


//

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## thoughtomator

Let's say you woke up one day to find the police outside your house, with a giant neon advertisement pointing at your house saying "GET PAID to rob this house!" and a police patrol to escort it.

As you watch the line forming, of people who are looking to take that offer to rob your house, empathy for _them_ is something only a sociopath might pretend to feel.

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## 56ktarget

> You were/are the one bitching about how unfair and awful it is here. I merely invited your and your's to leave. Since you are obviously unhappy AND DO NOT BELONG HERE. 
> 
> 
> Screw the phony "reaching out" BS.



Is this guy so stupid as to not realize I am an American citizen? Lol.

New philosophy of Ronin- don't like it, leave. Don't complain, leave. Lol, one wonders why he is even on this forum.

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## Ronin Truth

> Is this guy so stupid as to not realize I am an American citizen? Lol.
> 
> New philosophy of Ronin- don't like it, leave. Don't complain, leave. Lol, one wonders why he is even on this forum.


  There are many, many American citizens that should just leave.  Mainly the ones that agree with you, among others.

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## 56ktarget

> As someone who has worked for ICE, you are completely misinformed on this subject.  To use your term, your 'amount of ignorance' is ironic.  Getting a H1B visa is a temporary measure (non immigrant) that lets one stay legally for three years (up to six).  In order to get the 'green card' or Permanent Resident Alien/Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR), it is a completely different process.  THEN one must be a LPR for 5 years without committing crimes involving moral terpitude (to quote the Immigration and Nationality Acy [INA]).  Once these requirements are met (absent military service or some other exceptions) a LPR can APPLY to become a USCitizen.  They must pass the test, learn basic communicative English, and join this country LEGALLY and PROUDLY.
> 
> People who just sneak across the border or overstay their VISA and remain illegally without status have no respect for this country.  They simply wish to take advantage of our lax border enforcement and hefty entitlement and welfare state while cutting in front of millions of respectable LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who play by the rules.


I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean getting a H1B is the same process as getting a green card. I meant that having a H1b is the best way TO get a green card because you will likely be sponsored by your employer.

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## staerker

> Is this guy so stupid as to not realize I am an American citizen? Lol.
> 
> New philosophy of Ronin- don't like it, leave. Don't complain, leave. Lol, one wonders why he is even on this forum.


People like him are everywhere. It comes with the collectivist mindset that he has a claim to this continent because he supports the military that extorts it.

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## Ronin Truth

> People like him are everywhere. It comes with the collectivist mindset that he has a claim to this continent because he supports the military that extorts it.



How's your logic class going?

Oh, never mind, not well I see.  Did they kick you out?  Was the homework too tough?

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## LibertyEagle

> *Here's the problem, national borders exist.  I'd agree that they shouldn't, but they do.*  I don't agree with forbidding people to cross them, but at the same time, that's a problem that was sort of created by the State anyway.  And, we don't live in an ancap society yet.  So, I don't really see immigration restrictions, disagree with them though I do, as the worst of all governmental evils.  Even still, I can't justify them.


MAJOR :ROLLEYES:

Without borders, there is no national sovereignty.   Ron Paul wouldn't agree with you at all.   Yet, here you are on Ron Paul Forums pushing this meme.  Disgusting.

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## staerker

> MAJOR :ROLLEYES:
> 
> Without borders, there is no national sovereignty.   Ron Paul wouldn't agree with you at all.   Yet, here you are on Ron Paul Forums pushing this meme.  Disgusting.


Individual Sovereignty > National Sovereignty

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## devil21

> If you are in favor of impeding physical movement, by governmental force, you are a statist.
> 
> It doesn't matter what your reasons are, you are a statist.


Am I still a statist if I support border landowner's rights to defend their property against criminal illegal alien trespassers instead of begging the gov't to enforce it's own laws?  I recall instances of border landowners being sued (successfully even) for defending their property against the aliens.  If I were to say that I don't care whether the gov't enforces the borders and would rather the landowners have the right to enforce their property rights, what then?  Am I no longer a statist?  Would I then be a "heartless teabagger" instead?  Let's face the fact that no matter what, you're going to reduce everyone that opposes illegal immigration to some negative label.

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## staerker

> Am I still a statist if I support border landowner's rights to defend their property against criminal illegal alien trespassers instead of begging the gov't to enforce it's own laws?  I recall instances of border landowners being sued (successfully even) for defending their property against the aliens.  If I were to say that I don't care whether the gov't enforces the borders and would rather the landowners have the right to enforce their property rights, what then?  Am I no longer a statist?  Would I then be a "heartless teabagger" instead?  Let's face the fact that no matter what, you're going to reduce everyone that opposes illegal immigration to some negative label.


Uhm, no. I will always reduce a statist to the negative label of statist. If you wish to defend your private property, you have the right to do that.

If you are against being sued through a governmental justice system for defending your private property, then maybe you should consider being anti-statist.

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## MelissaWV

I know it's wisest not to feed the trolls, but at the same time, if you can't dispel the most basic misconceptions then you'll never convince another soul of anything.

First off, I speak for myself and know that there's a wide variety of opinion on the site ranging from total open borders advocates to total closed border/national sovereignty ones.  So yeah.  There's a fundamental failure in lumping us all together right off the bat.

Second, I have a few basic concepts I'd like to put out there.  

My property is mine, and I should be allowed to invite or disinvite anyone as I see fit.  If I invite someone dangerous onto my property and they injure me, I'm an idiot.  If they injure my neighbor, they can sue me (they were never guaranteed to be free from injury before my premise).  If I invite someone who's not a citizen into my home, then so what?  We'll get to that in a second.

I should also not be forced to pay for others' education, treatment for illnesses, transportation, compensation, etc..  Since --- as others have said --- we are not in any kind of utopia yet, we must deal with the fact welfare and public education are not going away anytime soon.  I would propose that those public services be narrowed only to citizens.

"But they are!" some of you are quick to point out.  No.  There are children all through the public education system who are not citizens at all.  They do find their way onto welfare roles dispute the strict citizenship checks (yeah... not my experience, either) much the same way that people who have assets and income still can manage to collect EBT benefits.

So, given the above, I do not care if immigrants are in your home, or even employed by your business.  In fact, insular communities of immigrants (which nearly always contain a subset of illegal immigrants) really would contribute far more than any of them could take out, if you had non-citizens banding together to form community schools, providing clinics to cater to their countrymen, etc..  Do not think for a moment that no one of quality would teach or contribute to those efforts.  Moreover, this all but removes the ESL from public schools, and allows some school districts the option of spending a bit more time teaching.  I'm not saying they will do this, but the alternative is ridiculous and inefficient for everyone involved.  "ESL" is a blanket thing, regardless of your native tongue, in most areas. 

So my sympathy is for individuals, my hope is that I can stop paying for others to spend my money for me, my worry is that people like the OP will toss the "racism" label around rather than look at solutions that benefit everyone involved, and my realization is that there are so many people who'll never do more than respond via clichés and vitriol.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I know it's wisest not to feed the trolls, but at the same time, if you can't dispel the most basic misconceptions then you'll never convince another soul of anything.
> 
> First off, I speak for myself and know that there's a wide variety of opinion on the site ranging from total open borders advocates to total closed border/national sovereignty ones.  So yeah.  There's a fundamental failure in lumping us all together right off the bat.
> 
> Second, I have a few basic concepts I'd like to put out there.  
> 
> My property is mine, and I should be allowed to invite or disinvite anyone as I see fit.  If I invite someone dangerous onto my property and they injure me, I'm an idiot.  If they injure my neighbor, they can sue me (they were never guaranteed to be free from injury before my premise).  If I invite someone who's not a citizen into my home, then so what?  We'll get to that in a second.
> 
> I should also not be forced to pay for others' education, treatment for illnesses, transportation, compensation, etc..  Since --- as others have said --- we are not in any kind of utopia yet, we must deal with the fact welfare and public education are not going away anytime soon.  I would propose that those public services be narrowed only to citizens.
> ...


This.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> //
> There are any number of things in my life and on this planet that do not conform to my preferences and wishes. I can choose to adapt and accept reality or resist and fight it. Under the current scenarios I will be extorted to help pay for the criminal aliens that continue to arrive in increasing numbers.


I hear the same things on a multitude of issues. It's somewhat the "go to" [sophist] retort. I've pointed it out probably a dozen times but regardless, yes, things are how they are; things are not how they should be. Perpetuating the system is not the way to effect change.

"Well they toppled the government in Iraq and hell is breaking loose. Normally I'm a non-interventionist but 'our' actions led to this. 'We' are responsible."

Or,

"You know I'm really convinced on having a market of labor. The issue is the Federal Reserve [System] debasing the currency. Stepped minimum wage requirements is the only way to combat the government perpetuated problems."

I really could go on and on..... and have.




> I never suggested that you should care what Mexico does. Somethings need to be done to make coming here much less attractive and appealing. For one, no more automatic citizenship just for a pregnant mom to be sneaking over the border and giving birth here.


These are a few amusing sentences. No, people should not gain benefits at the expense of others. *It is that simple.* (though I know utilitarian arguments will fly)




> A couple of studies conducted in the 1950's established the conclusion that the optimum population for the land mass of the USA was somewhere around 150 million.


You cannot seriously be offering this.

So in the 1950's there was a study that concluded the optimum population of the United States was near 150 million? What school of thought might they have studied under? Perhaps the authoritarian, euthanize the youth, sort? Perhaps a band of eugenicists? (and to be clear, I've not a clue what study you are referring to but might well bet a paycheck I'm not far off)





> We are now at more than twice that number. With the corresponding loss of quality comfortable life style, due in part to overcrowding and ever growing government. At least in my opinion.


Twice the number of the optimal centrally planned population? And chaos did not ensue? Well that's just incredible.

Overcrowding is a joke. Travel some. Even in the heart of one of the most populous states in the country, some homes are quarters of miles apart.

Travel to the more desolate states and you could well live without seeing a neighbor. Even with an "influx" of immigrants.




> Just because the entire human population of the planet would fit comfortably in Texas, doesn't suggest, in any way, that I'd have any interest in living that way.


I'm glad you mentioned that. That's just fine. You are seemingly arguing a government monopoly on land restricting who may and may not build near you (and of course, special interests win).

There is extremely private land available without artificially jacking property values and using the government to restrict certain folks from moving in.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> If they come back, we can continue.


I've typed about this quite extensively. To be honest it isn't even within my top ten issues that concern me but sometimes I cannot help but respond. To some, at least recently, it probably appears that I keep myself up at night because of immigration issues. I don't, and frankly I could probably barely care less.




> I believe that I covered all that somewhere above. I'm usually happy to amuse. You lost me there on that last sentence.


Perhaps our definitions of 'criminal' are out of sync?

I am simply stating that one who derives their payment off of the extortion of all by way of the voice of the 'many' (those that vote) is more immoral than those that travel across imaginary lines in the sand to provide services to those willing to employ them.

In fact, while one is immoral as all Hell, the other is a completely voluntary occurrence which does not legitimately concern anyone but those involved in said transaction. It's none of my damn business, in other words (or anyone else's).

And of course, the people of a given state should not subsidize a given group.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> I've typed about this quite extensively. To be honest it isn't even within my top ten issues that concern me but sometimes I cannot help but respond. To some, at least recently, it probably appears that I keep myself up at night because of immigration issues. I don't, and frankly I could probably barely care less.
> 
> 
> Perhaps our definitions of 'criminal' are out of sync?
> 
> I am simply stating that one who derives their payment off of the extortion of all by way of the voice of the 'many' (those that vote) is more immoral than those that travel across imaginary lines in the sand to provide services to those willing to employ them.
> 
> In fact, while one is immoral as all Hell, the other is a completely voluntary occurrence which does not legitimately concern anyone but those involved in said transaction. It's none of my damn business, in other words (or anyone else's).
> 
> And of course, the people of a given state should not subsidize a given group.


 I tend to agree. I don't tend to lose any sleep over it either. The NAU will come whether I approve of it or not.

Ah, so for you it's a relative scale of immorality and criminality, state coercion versus criminal trespass. I can understand that also, without quite agreeing.

Thanks!

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I tend to agree. I don't tend to lose any sleep over it either. The NAU will come whether I approve of it or not.
> 
> Ah, so for you it's a relative scale of immorality and criminality, state coercion versus criminal trespass. I can understand that also, without quite agreeing.
> 
> Thanks!


They've often not trespassed anywhere.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> They've often not trespassed anywhere.


 In today's world and reality, how do you figure?  Not all of the bad guys are in the government.  Not all of the bad guys are out of the government.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> In today's world and reality, how do you figure?  Not all of the bad guys are in the government.  Not all of the bad guys are out of the government.


I figure because they often are traveling on government controlled land, public roads, etc.

----------


## fisharmor

Same thread as every time....

"Have you guys thought this through?"

"Hey, $#@!head moron poopyface, keep them out, they're here to rob us ( citation STILL missing ) and no, I'm totally not a racist."

I've lost my patience with you guys.  No idea how KC keeps it up.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> I figure because they often are traveling on government controlled land, public roads, etc.


  If the government truly controlled the land they probably wouldn't be here.  (Ignoring the establishing the NAU goal, for the time being.)  Those public roads are for our use not their's. Their public roads are on the other side of the border.  Not for our use.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> If the government truly controlled the land they probably wouldn't be here.  (Ignoring the establishing the NAU goal, for the time being.)  Those public roads are for our use not their's. Their public roads are on the other side of the border.  Not for our use.


It sounds as if that is what you want. That is, for the government to become further authoritarian and control the land.

The public roads are for the public.

I really don't understand how you consider yourself an anarchist. But whatever floats your boat.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> It sounds as if that is what you want. That is, for the government to become further authoritarian and control the land.
> 
> *For now, it's a done deal. The government controls the land, with overwhelming majority support.
> 
> *The public roads are for the public.
> 
> *Yes, for the public that paid for their construction and maintenance. Other folks need to get permission.
> 
> *I really don't understand how you consider yourself an anarchist. But whatever floats your boat.
> ...


//

----------


## 56ktarget

> You were/are the one bitching about how unfair and awful it is here.  I merely invited your and your's to leave.  Since you are obviously unhappy AND *DO NOT BELONG HERE*.  
> 
> Screw the phony "reaching out" BS.


Did this moron miss the part where I am an American citizen? Hahahahahah learn to read.

----------


## ctiger2

> Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country.


You've perfectly described Govt at it's best.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Did this moron miss the part where I am an American citizen? Hahahahahah learn to read.


Na, when using the word here, he was probably referring to these forums.

And in your Thread Title....  It should be , "Why do Paulites have no empathy for trespassers?"
Most folks know not to go on my property without my permission.   I've seen some go out there and when I tell them they need permission to be there, they respond, that they are asking after the fact.   I tell them, nope, ask and get permission instead of trespassing or forget about getting to be here at all.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Yes, for the public that paid for their construction and maintenance. Other folks need to get permission.


And children?

I imagine you'd offer me that because they were born here they are automatically afforded permission. Much the way that being born here you automatically are afforded being taxed for one's life.

The roads are [largely?] (I'm not too sure of the percentage) paid by a gasoline tax, by the way. If the immigrants are driving, they've helped fund the roads.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Na, when using the word here, he was probably referring to these forums.
> 
> And in your Thread Title....  It should be , "Why do Paulites have no empathy for trespassers?"
> Most folks know not to go on my property without my permission.   I've seen some go out there and when I tell them they need permission to be there, they respond, that they are asking after the fact.   I tell them, nope, ask and get permission instead of trespassing or forget about getting to be here at all.


The King would agree with you.

And it being His land, perhaps you should vote. Maybe next year He'll decide to take you up on your wise words.

If He doesn't, never mind it. The Majority has spoken.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Na, when using the word here, he was probably referring to these forums.
> 
> And in your Thread Title.... It should be , "Why do Paulites have no empathy for trespassers?"
> Most folks know not to go on my property without my permission. I've seen some go out there and when I tell them they need permission to be there, they respond, that they are asking after the fact. I tell them, nope, ask and get permission instead of trespassing or forget about getting to be here at all.


 Nope, I meant this country that he's bitching and whining about. No one is making him stay. He can just go and find a place where he will be happier. North Korea would be my choice for him.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> And children?  
> 
> *Where are their parents?
> 
> *I imagine you'd offer me that because they were born here they are automatically afforded permission. Much the way that being born here you automatically are afforded being taxed for one's life.
> 
> *No, I oppose the "born here you're one us" fiasco.  There needs to be some more involved.
> 
> *The roads are [largely?] (I'm not too sure of the percentage) paid by a gasoline tax, by the way. If the immigrants are driving, they've helped fund the roads.
> ...


//

----------


## Dr.3D

> The King would agree with you.
> 
> And it being His land, perhaps you should vote. Maybe next year He'll decide to take you up on your wise words.
> 
> If He doesn't, never mind it. The Majority has spoken.


Of course the king would agree, I am the king of all I own.  

And yes, I do vote every time.

----------


## 56ktarget

> Na, when using the word here, he was probably referring to these forums.
> 
> And in your Thread Title....  It should be , "Why do Paulites have no empathy for trespassers?"
> Most folks know not to go on my property without my permission.   I've seen some go out there and when I tell them they need permission to be there, they respond, that they are asking after the fact.   I tell them, nope, ask and get permission instead of trespassing or forget about getting to be here at all.


Im talking about legal immigration.

----------


## staerker

> For now, it's a done deal. The government controls the land, with overwhelming majority support.


You mean, with your support.? Don't try to pass that on to a "majority" you have no control over. You support it.

----------


## 56ktarget

> Nope, I meant this country that he's bitching and whining about. No one is making him stay. He can just go and find a place where he will be happier. North Korea would be my choice for him.


Dude stop bitching about obama. It's really getting tiring. If you don't like it then just go live in Somalia.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Im talking about legal immigration.


Humm.... I have absolutely no problem with legal immigration.   That's how my great, great, great grand parents got here.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Not when the first sneaked in. Not usually sneaking in driving. It really doesn't need to made this complicated. SIMPLIFY!


I'm not trying to argue but you are the one making this complicated.

You carve out exceptions and create little rules as if that will be the end of it. Who is to pay the border patrol? What is to be done to someone here 'illegally'? If it is deport them, that is, physically abduct them and carry them to another place on this planet, who is going to pay for that? What tax system is going to be the basis for this? What should tax collectors make? How swell should their benefit package be?

And a million other things that in turn create a million other scenarios to be paid for by extorted members of the public. And for what? Because some peasant from Guatemala might be hired for a job that 99.99999% of Americans would not or could not do?

That's what this is about, right?

----------


## Quark

I used to subscribe to Ron Paul's belief that because we have the welfare state our borders shouldn't be open, but I think that if we used similar logic for any other issue we would be demotivated from pursuing any of our ideals. The issue isn't semi-permeable borders but the welfare state and the thieves/parasites who created the situation through arbitrary immigration quotas, war on drugs, and wealth redistribution. People who see the immigrants as the enemy and not the state are allowing the parasites (political class) to distract them.

----------


## amy31416

I can't imagine that anyone who's been on this forum for a reasonable amount of time actually thinks that "we" have no compassion for immigrants. I don't comment on it much because it's not a major issue for me, though I'm sure it's different for others.

----------


## oyarde

> Dude stop bitching about obama. It's really getting tiring. If you don't like it then just go live in Somalia.


I take it you have never been there . Lots of murderous Obummers there .

----------


## TER

My guess is Rand is working on the General Election now as well as the Primary.  Win the hearts of independents and liberals now, and the road to the White House becomes easier.  

The most important numbers to look for this early is how he matches up against Hillary.  That is the real barometer of which way the country is headed.

  When it comes time to school the neocons, he will have a primetime spot broadcasted across the world.  Then he becomes the nominee!

----------


## oyarde

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


Who do you have empathy for ?

----------


## Ronin Truth

> I'm not trying to argue but you are the one making this complicated.
> 
> You carve out exceptions and create little rules as if that will be the end of it. Who is to pay the border patrol? What is to be done to someone here 'illegally'? If it is deport them, that is, physically abduct them and carry them to another place on this planet, who is going to pay for that? What tax system is going to be the basis for this? What should tax collectors make? How swell should their benefit package be?
> 
> And a million other things that in turn create a million other scenarios to be paid for by extorted members of the public. And for what? Because some peasant from Guatemala might be hired for a job that 99.99999% of Americans would not or could not do?
> 
> That's what this is about, right?



Nope, just have him get in line and do it right.  Like my great grand parents did. All seems pretty simple to me. It's worked for millions, over a very long time.

----------


## Carson

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.



For one I've worked with honest people coming here to work and things worked out a lot better for everyone all around. There used to be a lot of people from all over the world willing to come and work. 

Why is it you think your doing immigration or the immigrants a service by playing them into the hands of the criminals in the government and in business?

Maybe once you and your friends come back over to the side of the rule of law, in regards to illegal immigration, we can get back on track of working and living side by side as equals. It doesn't seem to me the honest people that create this division but the criminals isolating themselves in the shadows.


Just how far are you willing to go with the illegal crossing of borders? Are stolen warehouse goods mixed in with honest product crossing the line for you? Would you complain people are not treating your stolen product the same way they treat the product that played by the rules? 

But then personally I think we've been doing pretty well not making this a personal issue with individuals. Though at times people make it difficult.

*Actually all that it would take to get back to living by the rule of the immigration laws would be people refusing to break them! They would have to open up the doors to legal immigration again if they truly needed workers. Workers working above board!*

----------


## Carson

They seem to have counterfeited a lot of money to circumvent the immigration laws. 

It seems they also must have printed up quite a bit to trick people into thinking circumventing the law was a good thing.


_
When I started looking into where the money was coming from to buy off the politicians and subvert the immigration laws of the world, I came across what may be the root of many of our problems. Fiat Money.

No matter how much real money people can put together to build their countries the way they want, there are those that can print up what ever it takes to dictate their way.

Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.

You own half of everything and so do I.

I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.

You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.

All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!

That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.

That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses._

----------


## Carlybee

I have a lot of empathy for those trying to legally immigrate. Those trying to get a free pass, no. The legal immigration process needs to be reformed but since it's a bureaucratic agency implementing it I don't see that happening anytime soon.   Oh and my husband went through the process, so I do know what I'm talking about. It's about $3000 and a 3 yr wait to come here on a fiancé visa. Of course if you are loaded with money or want to start a business here, you get to go to the head of the line. 

My sons ex girlfriend lived here 10 yrs on a student visa, got her doctorate degree from Rice, and because she couldn't find a job that "matched her level of education" soon enough they wouldn't renew her visa. She had to move back to Belgium. So much for wanting to allow the best and brightest in, yet Jose Cartel member can just walk on in.  That is BS.

----------


## erowe1

> I have a cousin who has lived in America since he was 5 years old (now 21). He speaks perfect English and in his head considers himself an American. But he's not. Seriously, it is incredibly difficult for an immigrant to become a citizen in this country. H1B visas are the only sure fire ways of getting a Green Card which gets citizenship. The amount of ignorance and lack of empathy on these boards for hard-working immigrants who want to become citizens is truly mind-boggling. I wish Paulites would actually research U.S. immigration law before spouting their mouths on an issue they know nothing about.


Have you taken a poll of Paulites? My guess is that Ron Paul supporters overall are more pro-immigrant than union workers.

In fact, odds are that you're for more restrictions on immigration than most of us are.

----------


## JK/SEA

soo..,,,56k...i assume we can expect you to donate the max to Rands first moneybomb?.....tia...

----------


## torchbearer

I like immigrants. Someone is spreading lies about me and that isn't cool.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I like immigrants. Someone is spreading lies about me and that isn't cool.


my grampa and grammy came from Norway in the early 1900's....worked their asses off. Gramps was an Army drill instructor during WW1...farmer, brick layer, jack of all trades....jumped through the PROPER $#@!ING HOOPS to become citizens...

$#@! you 56k...tired of your effin crap...

btw...i WAS a Democrat since the early 70's. Voted and supported Dems my entire life BECAUSE it was PERCEIVED they were ANTI-WAR...i might be a fool, but i'm not a complete fool like you.

----------


## Ronin Truth

What if we assume that the OP question is both sincere and legitimate? (I know, I know.)

I'd suggest for an honest answer to be, because most of us aren't immigrants. (So,what?)

----------


## JK/SEA

> What if we assume that the OP question is both sincere and legitimate? (I know, I know.)
> 
> I'd suggest for an honest answer to be, because most of us aren't immigrants. (So,what?)


not sincere. An effin trouber maker from the now extinct Wonkette crowd...just comes in here all full of itself thinking their 'stirring' up $#@! when in reality is making a fool of itself...

eff it, him, her, whatev...

carry on. If your up to it wonker wanker.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> not sincere. An effin trouber maker from the now extinct Wonkette crowd...just comes in here all full of itself thinking their 'stirring' up $#@! when in reality is making a fool of itself...
> 
> eff it, him, her, whatev...
> 
> carry on. If your up to it wonker wanker.


  I thought my (I know, I know.) covered that, so whatever.

----------


## Vanguard101

I have sympathy for immigrants. That is exactly why I don't want them coming here to get taxed for unconstitutional wars and corporate welfare. Where is your empathy?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Dude stop bitching about obama. It's really getting tiring. If you don't like it then just go live in Somalia.


Wait, didn't you just mock someone on page one for making the same comment: "If you don't like it, leave"?

Yup:




> Ahh, its nice to see Paulites reaching out. The classic "go back where you came from" quote. And still you will claim you are not xenophobic/racist. Ahaha.


As acptulsa already noted, this is *really* stupid, to come on here and piss in the collective messkits of the most open border people you're liable to ever find.

----------


## 56ktarget

Looks like the Anti-Federalist has no concept of sarcasm/satire.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Looks like the Anti-Federalist has no concept of sarcasm/satire.


one hand clapping...bravo..

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Looks like the Anti-Federalist has no concept of sarcasm/satire.


Even if he doesn't, you still wouldn't be any less of a mealy-mouthed $#@!-stirrer.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Looks like the Anti-Federalist has no concept of sarcasm/satire.


And you have absolutely NO FUNCTIONING knack for funny, no matter what your mama told you, Goober.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Looks like the Anti-Federalist has no concept of sarcasm/satire.


Oh stop it.

You were serious and you know it.

Try harder.

----------


## staerker

> You're right it's $#@! here, take you and your family back where you all came from, or even somewhere else better.





> Ahh, its nice to see Paulites reaching out. The classic "go back where you came from" quote. And still you will claim you are not xenophobic/racist. Ahaha.





> You were/are the one bitching about how unfair and awful it is here.  I merely invited your and your's to leave.  Since you are obviously unhappy AND *DO NOT BELONG HERE*.  
> 
> Screw the phony "reaching out" BS.





> Is this guy so stupid as to not realize I am an American citizen? Lol.
> 
> New philosophy of Ronin- don't like it, leave. Don't complain, leave. Lol, one wonders why he is even on this forum.





> There are many, many American citizens that should just leave.  Mainly the ones that agree with you, among others.





> Did this moron miss the part where I am an American citizen? Hahahahahah learn to read.





> Nope, I meant this country that he's bitching and whining about. No one is making him stay. He can just go and find a place where he will be happier. North Korea would be my choice for him.





> Dude stop bitching about obama. It's really getting tiring. If you don't like it then just go live in Somalia.







> Oh stop it.
> 
> You were serious and you know it.
> 
> Try harder.

----------


## devil21

56ktarget is officially the most neg-repped RPF username ever, by far.  Well done.

----------


## erowe1

Here's a poll of us from not too long ago:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...migration-Poll

56k, where would you fall in that poll?

----------


## Dr.3D

> 56ktarget is officially the most neg-repped RPF username ever, by far.  Well done.


Is there such a thing as negative rep power?

----------


## devil21

> Is there such a thing as negative rep power?


Are you implying it is shooting for a negative rep score of 56,000?  The AF of neg rep?

----------


## 56ktarget

> Oh stop it.
> 
> You were serious and you know it.
> 
> Try harder.


Cute. Go back and read what the other guy said and you'll see my comment is almost word for word.
Nice try though.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Cute. Go back and read what the other guy said and you'll see my comment is almost word for word.
> Nice try though.


I realize it was almost word for word, that's why I pointed out the obvious hypocrisy.

You'll not convince me that you were being sarcastic.

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## 69360

My position is probably not the typical one here. I don't really have a problem with illegals. My personal experience with illegals has been that they work hard and don't cause trouble. If they want to come here and work lets just give them a green card and let them. If they are here illegally and want a green card, just give them one and get them legal. They should pay taxes on their income. They should not get any entitlements without citizenship. They can follow the existing path to citizenship.

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## 56ktarget

Think whatever you want, its obvious that you have no grasp of sarcasm at all. Usually when someone quotes someone else word for word and takes the opposite stance, he is being sarcastic. But I guess that word has a different meaning for Paulites.

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## 56ktarget

Well after reading the comments I guess I have to admit Paulites are the most tolerant of immigrants in the Republican umbrella. But I'm not sure where the illegal immigrant topic came up, didn't mention that at all in the OP.

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## Dr.3D

> Are you implying it is shooting for a negative rep score of 56,000?  The AF of neg rep?


I'm just wondering if it's possible for somebody who has enough neg reps to give a neg rep that shows positive to the recipient.

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## amy31416

> Well after reading the comments I guess I have to admit Paulites are the most tolerant of immigrants in the Republican umbrella. But I'm not sure where the illegal immigrant topic came up, didn't mention that at all in the OP.


I know there are some here who do not tolerate illegal immigrants, but who here doesn't tolerate legal ones?

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## MelissaWV

> Well after reading the comments I guess I have to admit Paulites are the most tolerant of immigrants in the Republican umbrella. But I'm not sure where the illegal immigrant topic came up, didn't mention that at all in the OP.


You were discussing intolerance of immigrants, and included the context of how difficult it was to obtain citizenship, which invites the comparison of those who come here illegally and those who go through the entire process.  If you did not want a logical response, why post?

Ah.  Right.

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## oyarde

> Well after reading the comments I guess I have to admit Paulites are the most tolerant of immigrants in the Republican umbrella. But I'm not sure where the illegal immigrant topic came up, didn't mention that at all in the OP.


No real idea how things are everywhere , but where I am , true , small govt , fiscal conservatives ( mostly reg.'d GOP ) and the Libertarians have little interest in immigrants one way or the other . There are too many things higher on the list . I would imagine it is more of a topic for Union , Dem voters in my area.

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## erowe1

> Well after reading the comments I guess I have to admit Paulites are the most tolerant of immigrants in the Republican umbrella. But I'm not sure where the illegal immigrant topic came up, didn't mention that at all in the OP.


The illegal immigrant topic came up because your cousin shouldn't have to worry about visas, green cards, or citizenship. He should just be able to live here, work wherever he wants for whoever wants to hire him, and go about his business without the government knowing he's here. He should be exactly what illegal immigrants are, only it shouldn't be illegal.

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## qh4dotcom

> We love immigrants, criminal aliens not so much.  Mexico treats criminal aliens caught in their country much worse than we do here. Last time I checked The US is pretty well filled up.


Looks like Mexico is very nice to the 50,000+ Central American children who cross their country on their way to the US-Mexico border....haven't heard of them being treated worse than in the US (I am talking about Mexican authorities, I know the drug cartels aren't that nice towards Central American kids and teenage girls)

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## qh4dotcom

> MAJOR :ROLLEYES:
> 
> Without borders, there is no national sovereignty.   Ron Paul wouldn't agree with you at all.   Yet, here you are on Ron Paul Forums pushing this meme.  Disgusting.


Well, right now there is a fence marking the border....Ron Paul wants to get rid of the fence.

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## Ronin Truth

> Looks like Mexico is very nice to the 50,000+ Central American children who cross their country on their way to the US-Mexico border....haven't heard of them being treated worse than in the US (I am talking about Mexican authorities, I know the drug cartels aren't that nice towards Central American kids and teenage girls)





> March 27, 2013 9:00 AM 
> 
> *Reminder: How Mexico Treats Undesirable Foreigners
> *
> Why isn't whats good for the protection of Mexico good for the U.S.? 
> 
> By Michelle Malkin 
> 
> American politicians in both parties are stampeding all over themselves to pander to Mexico and adopt mass illegal-alien-amnesty schemes. But while the Mexican government lobbies for more humane treatment of illegal border-crossers from their country into ours, Mexico remains notoriously restrictionist toward undesirable foreigners who break their laws or threaten their security.
> ...


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ichelle-malkin

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## qh4dotcom

RonInTruth, I've heard that before....the question is....how did 50,000+ Central American children manage to sneak across their border with Guatemala.....and were allowed to cross all of Mexico on their way to the US-Mexico border instead of being deported since Mexico is so tough with illegal immigrants?

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## Ronin Truth

> RonInTruth, I've heard that before....the question is....how did 50,000+ Central American children manage to sneak across their border with Guatemala.....and were allowed to cross all of Mexico on their way to the US-Mexico border instead of being deported since Mexico is so tough with illegal immigrants?


Maybe the secret Rothschild NWO issued all of them free NAU travel passes.  

Also, since it's Mexico you can probably be pretty confident that somebodies got paid off.

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## erowe1

> Well, right now there is a fence marking the border....Ron Paul wants to get rid of the fence.


Source?

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## Ronin Truth

> RonInTruth, I've heard that before....the question is....how did 50,000+ Central American children manage to sneak across their border with Guatemala.....and were allowed to cross all of Mexico on their way to the US-Mexico border instead of being deported since Mexico is so tough with illegal immigrants?



Well, maybe Mexico just deported them all to the USA (for a fee).

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