# Think Tank > Austrian Economics / Economic Theory >  Are there any good universities that teach austrian economics?

## AggieforPaul

Any good graduate programs that would be worth looking into? Or do they all teach Keynesianian economics?

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## Josh_LA

there's a difference between teaching economics as workable theories and teaching them as practical policies.

your question sounds like, is there any school that teaches racism?

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## Brassmouth

> there's a difference between teaching economics as workable theories and teaching them as practical policies.
> 
> your question sounds like, is there any school that teaches racism?


That was either a horrible analogy, or it didn't make any sense. Probably both.




> Any good graduate programs that would be worth looking into? Or do they all teach Keynesianian economics?


I've been wondering the same thing. I think NYU has a program that deals with Austrian economics. Beyond that I have no idea.

Anyone else?

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## danberkeley

George Mason University. Loyola University, New Orleans has Walter Block.

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## yongrel

George Mason is the place to be. They've got Walter Williams, Bryan Kaplan, and a slew of other great Austrian thinkers. Plus, GMU's library has a fantastic collection of Austrian Econ books. I have access to the library through the DC college consortium, and I'm always raiding their shelves for rare and hard to find works from Mises, Bohm-Bawerk, etc.

GMU's econ program is stellar, and they offer classes like "Monetary policy and the Constitution" and "The Economic Benefits of Liberty." If you're looking for a great grad school for an austrian econ education, George Mason is your destination.

Plus, ya can't beat the DC Metro area as a college town

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## Michigan11

Northwood University in Midland, MI. The whole philosophy of the school is based on freedom. The school was a private college up untill 94', they also have other campuses in Florida and Texas. Could be more campuses as well but I don't know.

I learned Austrian Economics from a brilliant professor there. The greatest part was he broke everything down into simple understanding, so that you understand all systems. Practical knowledge that allows you to understand complex systems very easily.

It's definitely worth checking out.

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## Josh_LA

> That was either a horrible analogy, or it didn't make any sense. Probably both.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been wondering the same thing. I think NYU has a program that deals with Austrian economics. Beyond that I have no idea.
> 
> Anyone else?


every school teaches what racism is, but virtually none teach racism as something good or as a matter of policy making. 

so, every school of economics will teach every school of economics, but few if any would preach Austrian as a policy, simply by the system we live in (not America, but the way the world works in the big picture). It'd be like teaching people who want to be teachers to not lecture, you can teach something new and radically different but it'd not fly as a practical policy making program (status quo maintainence).

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## Josh_LA

> Northwood University in Midland, MI. The whole philosophy of the school is based on freedom. The school was a private college up untill 94', they also have other campuses in Florida and Texas. Could be more campuses as well but I don't know.
> 
> I learned Austrian Economics from a brilliant professor there. The greatest part was he broke everything down into simple understanding, so that you understand all systems. Practical knowledge that allows you to understand complex systems very easily.
> 
> It's definitely worth checking out.


does it teach though, how Austrian principles can be applied and adopted from the current system we have?

I don't need to be taught that Austrian is better than Keynesian, I want to know if there's anything they teach you on selling the policy to others.

Unless an economic school teaches how to implement policies, wouldn't it be like teaching children heaven and CandyLand are beautiful places to live but never teaching them how to get there?

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## AggieforPaul

What about the University of Chicago? How about Maryland? Doesn't DiLorenzo teach there?

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## AggieforPaul

Wow, Mason's program sounds really superb. It sounds expensive though, and the average GRE quantitative score is 740

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## danberkeley

> What about the University of Chicago? How about Maryland? Doesn't DiLorenzo teach there?


DiLorenzo teaches at Loyola Baltimore, but as a whole, Loyola New Orleans has better economics department.

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## danberkeley

It would be awsome if Block, DiLorenzo, Woods, Salerno, Hoppe, etc. all taught at one university. (besides Mises U., of course)

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## AggieforPaul

Im not too impressed with mason's website. It doesnt have an FAQ or any salary info.

Im going to graduate from Texas A&M with a degree in finance, and my school's median starting salary is 50k. I think going to mason and learning Austrian economics would be awesome, but the decision would be easier if I could  be assured that it would somehow help my career prospects. If it doesnt increase my marketability in some way, Id probably be better off just continuing to read austrian theory at home. Ron Paul did it that way, and he seems to know it like the back of his hand.

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## clb09

GMU Libertarian Purity Test

George Mason - Libertarian

Reason Magazine calls GMU a "Libertarian Mecca"

George Mason University Institute for Humane Studies

Learn more here about IHS

Hope this helps!

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> every school teaches what racism is, but virtually none teach racism as something good or as a matter of policy making. 
> 
> so, every school of economics will teach every school of economics, but few if any would preach Austrian as a policy, simply by the system we live in (not America, but the way the world works in the big picture).


Likewise, much of an economics degree consists of evaluating current policy or past policy.

Seriously, it wouldn't make sense to go learn econ from only an austrian perspective.

Not only that, but austrian school economists aren't real big fans of mathematics, and you're getting a crap education if you want an econ degree without the math.  You might as well get a philosophy degree. (which is fine if that's what you like.)

Anyone who wants an education in economics probably wants the ability to understand and evaluate keynesian policy choices.  The real problem with politicians and economies is that they typically understate the negative effects of their tinkering.  If you don't understand it, you can't point it out.

There seems to be a lot of confusion around here regarding what austrian economics is.  It's a school of thought within a discipline, that arrives at different conclusions now and then.  Austrian school economists don't just learn austrian economics.  Most learned it all, and prefer austrian school thought.

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## the count

i actually studied economics in austria back in the early 70's. to sum it up, it was a bunch of crap. professors that had never actually worked in any industry, impersonal assistants,
 and very little (actually nothing i think) about 'austrian economics'...

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## yongrel

> does it teach though, how Austrian principles can be applied and adopted from the current system we have?
> 
> I don't need to be taught that Austrian is better than Keynesian, I want to know if there's anything they teach you on selling the policy to others.
> 
> Unless an economic school teaches how to implement policies, wouldn't it be like teaching children heaven and CandyLand are beautiful places to live but never teaching them how to get there?




Get off your high horse.

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## Conza88

> Get off your high horse.


Haha...

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## Michigan11

> does it teach though, how Austrian principles can be applied and adopted from the current system we have?
> 
> I don't need to be taught that Austrian is better than Keynesian, I want to know if there's anything they teach you on selling the policy to others.
> 
> Unless an economic school teaches how to implement policies, wouldn't it be like teaching children heaven and CandyLand are beautiful places to live but never teaching them how to get there?


Well they teach you how to use it in your everyday life, at work or for your own business. Lead by example and others will learn as well. Austrian economics is more than just text book policies, it is understanding systems and predictable human actions. 

It may depend more on the teacher than a school though.

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## danberkeley

> Likewise, much of an economics degree consists of evaluating current policy or past policy.
> 
> Seriously, it wouldn't make sense to go learn econ from only an austrian perspective.
> 
> Not only that, but austrian school economists aren't real big fans of mathematics, and you're getting a crap education if you want an econ degree without the math.  You might as well get a philosophy degree. (which is fine if that's what you like.)
> 
> Anyone who wants an education in economics probably wants the ability to understand and evaluate keynesian policy choices.  The real problem with politicians and economies is that they typically understate the negative effects of their tinkering.  If you don't understand it, you can't point it out.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of confusion around here regarding what austrian economics is.  It's a school of thought within a discipline, that arrives at different conclusions now and then.  Austrian school economists don't just learn austrian economics.  Most learned it all, and prefer austrian school thought.


Please, explain to me how a supply & demand curve is useful in a practical sense. How would it be useful in predicting/projecting/determining revenue?

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## nate895

> Please, explain to me how a supply & demand curve is useful in a practical sense. How would it be useful in predicting/projecting/determining revenue?


It would be, if you had the ability to know both the supply and demand curve. However, it takes too much guess work to actually figure it out.

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## danberkeley

> It would be, if you had the ability to know both the supply and demand curve. However, it takes too much guess work to actually figure it out.


Thank you. The math portion of economics isnt all that great. It's mostly a bunch of hypothetical work that is not as accurate as Austrian theory.

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## nate895

> Thank you. The math portion of economics isnt all that great. It's mostly a bunch of hypothetical work that is not as accurate as Austrian theory.


Yeah, I am currently sitting through Econ 101, and I just wonder how on Earth anyone thinks they actually know this stuff. As a class, it is an easy A, but if you were one those Keynesian economists, you know that all day you'd just be shouting off bull and know it.

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## Josh_LA

> Likewise, much of an economics degree consists of evaluating current policy or past policy.
> 
> Seriously, it wouldn't make sense to go learn econ from only an austrian perspective.
> 
> Not only that, but austrian school economists aren't real big fans of mathematics, and you're getting a crap education if you want an econ degree without the math.  You might as well get a philosophy degree. (which is fine if that's what you like.)
> 
> Anyone who wants an education in economics probably wants the ability to understand and evaluate keynesian policy choices.  The real problem with politicians and economies is that they typically understate the negative effects of their tinkering.  If you don't understand it, you can't point it out.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of confusion around here regarding what austrian economics is.  It's a school of thought within a discipline, that arrives at different conclusions now and then.  Austrian school economists don't just learn austrian economics.  Most learned it all, and prefer austrian school thought.


My damn point exactly!!!

thanks!

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## AggieforPaul

It sounds like a lot of people in industry and business would have a bias against GMU and austrian economics.

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## HOLLYWOOD

> George Mason is the place to be. They've got Walter Williams, *Bryan Kaplan*, and a slew of other great Austrian thinkers. Plus, GMU's library has a fantastic collection of Austrian Econ books. I have access to the library through the DC college consortium, and I'm always raiding their shelves for rare and hard to find works from Mises, Bohm-Bawerk, etc.
> 
> GMU's econ program is stellar, and they offer classes like "Monetary policy and the Constitution" and "The Economic Benefits of Liberty." If you're looking for a great grad school for an austrian econ education, George Mason is your destination.
> 
> Plus, ya can't beat the DC Metro area as a college town



Here's a little bit more informative post:

*Why I Am Not an Austrian Economist 
by 

Bryan Caplan


Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
George Mason University*
*http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/whyaust.htm*

*Preface*
I was first introduced to Austrian economics during my senior year in high school, when I first read and enjoyed the writings of Mises and Rothbard. The summer before I began my undergraduate work at UC Berkeley, I was able to attend the 1989 Mises Institute summer seminar at Stanford, where I met Murray Rothbard and many of the leading Austrian economists for the first time. It is now eight years later; I have just completed my Ph.D. in economics at Princeton, and will be joining the faculty of the economics department at George Mason in the fall. I thus find this a natural point in my career to articulate precisely why I no longer consider myself an Austrian economist - as I certainly did eight years ago. 

I do not deny that Austrian economists have made valuable contributions to economics. Rather, as the sequel will argue, I maintain that: 

*(a)* The effort to rebuild economics along foundations substantially different from those of modern neoclassical economics fails. 

*(b)* Austrian economists have often misunderstood modern neoclassical economics, causing them to overstate their differences with it. 

*(c)* Several of the most important Austrian claims are false, or at least overstated. 

*(d)* Modern neoclassical economics has made a number of important discoveries which Austrian economists for the most part have not appreciated. 

Given this, I conclude that while self-labeled Austrian economists have some valid contributions to make to economics, these are simply not distinctive enough to sustain a school of thought. The task of developing an alternate Austrian paradigm has largely failed, producing an abundance of meta-economics (philosophy, methodology, and history of thought), but few substantive results. Whatever Austrian economists have that is worth saying should be simply be addressed to the broader economics profession, which (in spite of itself) remains eager for original, true, and substantive ideas. 

Needless to say, I have many friends who think more highly of Austrian economics than I do. I hope that this piece will spark interest and discussion without sparking any kind of personal acrimony

use the link to see Caplan's complete justifications...

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## malkusm

I am applying to grad schools for economics right now. I had an interesting time picking my schools, since I definitely want a school with an Austrian influence, but my background is very strongly quantitative (getting a B.S. in Statistics in May).

Basically, I took this list off of mises.org:
http://www.mises.org/classroom/gradschool.pdf
and used that in combination with some metrics on econometric-based papers published.

University of Maryland is the only school that I applied to that's not on the list, and that's in large part because I would be in-state there.

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## Josh_LA

> Here's a little bit more informative post:
> 
> *Why I Am Not an Austrian Economist 
> by 
> 
> Bryan Caplan
> 
> 
> Assistant Professor
> ...


Conza will jump on this immediately, but doesn't Austrian economics (or any form of laissez faire), require that people are smart enough to take  responsibility?

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## danberkeley

> Conza will jump on this immediately, but doesn't Austrian economics (or any form of laissez faire), require that people are smart enough to take  responsibility?


No. That why we have the state.

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## Conza88

> No. That why we have the state.


lol 

Bryan Chaplan doesn't think FRB is fraud... I guess he doesn't think its inflationary then aswell.

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Please, explain to me how a supply & demand curve is useful in a practical sense. How would it be useful in predicting/projecting/determining revenue?





> It would be, if you had the ability to know both the supply and demand curve. However, it takes too much guess work to actually figure it out.


I guess it depends on what kind of data you can gather.




> Thank you. The math portion of economics isnt all that great. It's mostly a bunch of hypothetical work that is not as accurate as Austrian theory.



What's your experience with economics?  An entry level class?

I've plotted my own profit maximization curves in the real world before.  The math gives credibility to some theory.  Not to mention, the point of an equation with 3 or 4 or more variables isn't to come to a single number.  The point is to be able to manipulate the equation so you can see how the parts affect each other.  

Mathematical modeling is extremely useful.  Economtrics is useful as well.  Gathering real world data to test against theory is useful.  

If you're unwilling to learn basic economic mathematical concepts like multipliers, you'll never have a decent understanding of what's going on.  You'll just be parroting what you hear from various austrian thinkers.  Believe me, they've studied and understand these things, and very likely don't reject most of it.  You'll also have less ammo to critique policies you disagree with, and no means of handling such a discussion.  The truth is that there's a lot of overlap.  You just don't hear the overlap because people don't constantly sit around talking about what they agree on.  If you want to be a philosopher, that's fine.  If you want to be an economist, it doesn't make sense to reject most of the field.  You should at least figure out which parts your heros reject first, and it sounds like you really don't know.  

There's also a difference between what should be (philosophy) and what is (empirical data).  If you'd like to make a good case for the first, it's helps to understand the second.

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## danberkeley

> I guess it depends on what kind of data you can gather.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your experience with economics?  An entry level class?
> 
> I've plotted my own profit maximization curves in the real world before.  The math gives credibility to some theory.  Not to mention, the point of an equation with 3 or 4 or more variables isn't to come to a single number.  The point is to be able to manipulate the equation so you can see how the parts affect each other.  
> 
> ...


Ehh, I suppose I was exaggerating. Anyway, I wasnt implying that we should completely ignore all economics except Austrian economics.

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