# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Review of cheap gun: Mosin Nagant 7.62x54

## Oyate

I picked up a Nagant pretty much on a whim. To tell the truth, my main rifle is a black powder firer so at present this is my only smokeless powder firing rifle at present.

Now in it's full battle configuration with bayonette, the first thing that comes to mind is spitting a pig and roasting it over an open fire. Thus at first glance, the Nagant looks like a cross between a rifle and kitchen equipment. We'll cover the culinary possibilities in a future article and stick with shooting for now.

The next thing is you notice this thing is heavy, long, ungainly, pretty dorky looking actually. But looks don't count for much in this game. Besides, you are busy trying to ram cartridges through the breech-load and as you manage to work the bolt home past a series of rough spots, you wonder what it would have been like to actually have to face an enemy with this thing. You may be reassured by the fact that if it doesn't fire, there's always the sheer weight and that 20" long pig-sticker on the end of it.

But in battle, one doesn't often have the chance to stop and wonder about the possibilities. I assumed a prone position and acquired a target about 100 yards out. And as I began to fit myself into this firearm I noticed the stock was so well sculpted it felt like shouldering a 2x4. And as I begin to zero my target and dial my breathing in, I feel that weight bearing down on my forward arm and think "I don't want to be here all day". But as I'm grabbing the trigger and beginning to squeeze off a shot, what occurs to me is how very short this stock seems to be and how it ai't quite nestling in my shoulder and just before the round discharges the words "this is probably gonna hurt" cross my mind.

BANG. 

I stay in firing position. I look for a hole in my target. I look for dust around my target. I look to the sky for falling aircraft because that shot seemed to hit in another dimension. My buddy is helping me sight through his scope and he calls out "high".

High? Like how high? 20 feet? Quarter mile? This thing has fixed-distance sights and it's on it's lowest horizon right now. This is 100 yards. Did they not understand the concept of close-quarters combat back then? Oh yeah, that's what the bayonette is for.

But after a few more rounds and aiming low, I was able to start placing them in a 12" target. And each time that sucker gave me a nice punch in the shoulder. And then I found out it wouldn't inject the last round from the mag. It got hung up every time. So instead of 5 shots, you really get four. I now read it's not an uncommon defect for this model. I could take it back where I got it for an exchange, but I hand-selected this rifle for it's near-perfect bore. And I didn't buy it for combat, it's supposed to be a backup game-getter that I can buy rounds off the shelf for. So now you just stuff four more rounds on top of what is basically a place-keeper in the mag. So what?

But it seemed to fire pretty consistent. Pretty high and to the left. I was told they were pretty accurate. But with the fixed sights and all, it's a firearm you just kind of have to get used to. If your shoulder can take it. I put 20 rounds through it, I was taking my time, taking turns spotting my buddy. I was dialing in to zero when my shoulder said "that's it, you can stay but I'm going home".

But here is the beauty of these old war guns. You get them cheap and modifying them isn't so much a trip to the gun store but a matter for the home handy man. I don't like the hand-grip but they left we with lots of wood. I'll get out the carving tools and make it shake my hand back. I will spend a couple bucks on a butt-pad for it and that will build out that extra inch I want in butt length and do the old shoulder a favour.

So hey, for the $80-90 you drop on the thing, you got a deer rifle. And this very round is known as not only the first, but the first step in the "high powered shoulder fired" category. Deer, elk, moose, bear, buffalo right down to antellope and there's no reason you couldn't use it to bag a bunny if you were hungry. I'd recommend even experienced riflemen get one as a loaner or for teaching purposes.

Fully accessorized with sling, oil bottle, pig-sticker and cleaning rod, again, these can be had for about $80-90. I'd go so far as to say it's almost a perfect first hunting rifle. It's practically impossible to shoot yourself cleaning this thing, the barrel is too long to look down unless you are standing up.

Notes: beginners, please go out with a seasoned shooter your first time. Use that cleaning rod to run a patch with oil through the barrel before firing and if it comes out all cruddy and black, run a few more patches through it. Make sure the action operates, if not smoothly, then it just operates. And please transport the firearm action open, which means with the bolt open and clear of ammo until you get to the range. Be sure of your backstop which means always be sure your round goes home into something you can see that doesn't include air, people, houses or livestock. My next article will detail what makes a range a range.

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## constituent

I've got a gun question.  Is it really better to "leave a little carbon in the barrel?"  

I've been told "hell yea," and "hell no."

Gunny?  Oyate?  Anyone got feedback?

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## GunnyFreedom

> I've got a gun question.  Is it really better to "leave a little carbon in the barrel?"  
> 
> I've been told "hell yea," and "hell no."
> 
> Gunny?  Oyate?  Anyone got feedback?


Absolutely terrible idea.

Well...  if you have a chrome-lined chamber and barrel, it won't really _hurt_ so much, but if you do not have a chrome lined barrel and chamber then it will eat your weapon from the inside out.

Especially if you happen to live anywhere where there is generally some amount of humidity in the air.

Burned powder contains more than just carbon, there are also trace oxidants and corrosives that can degrade your rifling.

This is exactly why the M16 got such a HORRIBLE reputation in Vietnam, the soldiers were told not to bother cleaning it, and the first models did not have chrome bore and chamber.  Lots of failure to eject, squib rounds, and various nastiness.  The A1 model did get a chrome bore and chamber, and fixed 99% of THAT problem.

So while as a Marine I might say clean it like there is no other task in the universe but to clean the thing, talking to someone who only cares about function I'd say if you do NOT have a chrome bore, then clean the hell out of it.  If you DO have a chrome bore and chamber, clean it, but it's not nearly as crucial, as the oxidants will have nothing to 'bite' on.

I highly recommend something called "foaming bore snake," just make sure you follow the directions, as turning your rifle the wrong way could bring all that nasty into your action.

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## constituent

excellent advice gunny, thanks.

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## Oyate

> excellent advice gunny, thanks.


Especially with one of these older rifles bro. No way. 

When you know you got it safed, no ammo in the mag or the chamber, hold a little flashlight to shine up through the breech and up the barrel so you can put an eyeball right down the barrel from the muzzle.

You want to see the barrel. You want to see down inside of the rifling grooves. These surfaces should be free of junk, you should see shiny metal.

Now dial your eyeballs in and look at the surface of that metal. Does it have pitts in it from corrosion? Does it have scratches? Would you call the scratches "surface scratches" or are there like little grooves cut into it from a crappy round or junk in the barrel when fired?

These old rifles want to be clean with a light coat of oil when fired. That's why we run a patch through before firing. Assuming you cleaned it last time you fired.

This all becomes especially important with these old rifles as you find your choice between older or "corrosive rounds" as opposed to more expensive non-corrosive rounds. The cheaper corrosives leave a literally corrosive residue in the barrel and it will start to eat away and pitt the barrel and screw with accuracy. But this is no big deal. Just clean your rifle using wire brushes and patches and solvent until it's clean and oil it up to protect it after firing, every time.

Now if ever my advice conflicts with Gunny's it's best to default to Gunny but I think you'll find us in general agreement.

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## Brian4Liberty

> This all becomes especially important with these old rifles as you find your choice between older or "corrosive rounds" as opposed to more expensive non-corrosive rounds.


Most of the surplus 7.62x54R ammo is semi-corrosive. I believe the primers are corrosive, not the actual powder. I seem to remember a recommendation to clean the barrel with soap and water, following by solvent, and with a final coat of light oil after cleaning/drying.

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## Oyate

> Most of the surplus 7.62x54R ammo is semi-corrosive. I believe the primers are corrosive, not the actual powder. I seem to remember a recommendation to clean the barrel with soap and water, following by solvent, and with a final coat of light oil after cleaning/drying.


Soap and water? Well ok I guess. The solvent and oiling should remove any soap. Some folks say to hit them with an ammonia cleanser. But a good regular cleaning with solvent and oil will keep these things in service long after you and I are gone. There are rifles in my family being fired by the 4th and 5th generation now and we got most of those surplus.

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## phill4paul

YouTube - Mosin-Nagant M44

  Notice the load....but still.

  $100 buck or less dear capable rifle. 

  If you want a good rifle at a price you can afford. This is it.

  Buy ammo now. Prices are going up. This is the new rifle arms meme.

 Edit: M44 pictured.

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## phill4paul

Also, a venerable and trusted individual told me.......

  Fire corrosive loads all day long....just if you are going to have a period before you clean it you fire a clean shot through it.

  Any truth to this ..the whys and hows...please.

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## pcosmar

Two old surplus rifles from my youth were a British .303 (sporterized, my brothers) and a K 31.
I got rid of the Schmidt-Rubin because ammo was hard to find and pricey. I have often regretted it.
It is a great rifle, if you come across one.

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## ghengis86

they also make synthetic stocks for the mosin for ~$50.  good thread, good advice all around and a great firearm.

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## Acala

> Soap and water? Well ok I guess. The solvent and oiling should remove any soap. Some folks say to hit them with an ammonia cleanser. But a good regular cleaning with solvent and oil will keep these things in service long after you and I are gone. There are rifles in my family being fired by the 4th and 5th generation now and we got most of those surplus.


Corrosive ammo is corrosive because the primer leaves a residue of salts in the bore.  Salt is hydroscopic so it draws water out of the air and holds it against the bore.  Plus, the salt acts as an electrolyte encouraging electrochemical corrosion.  You gots ta get it out.  But it is easy.  My favorite way to clean up after corrosive ammo in BOLT ACTION rifles, is to funnel a pint or two of boiling water down the bore.  Follow up with solvent, brushing, and oil as usual.

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## BillyDkid

Bought my son one of these last year. Great fun.  Got ripped on it, but small dealers tend to do that.  Have learned better now. It's a 1932 hex receiver Tula model.  Have burned through a boatload of Russian ammo with it (never a problem).   We shoot the Saiga more now.  Does make a great deer rifle.  Over in Siberia they shoot Brown and Polar Bears with it - about equivalent to a 30-06.  What I think whenever I shoot it is this - Jesus, can you imagine lugging this thing around in a battle?  I guess the same is true for the M1 Garand, which is what I would really like to get.

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