# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Confessions of an active duty police officer

## Fivezeroes

Now, I know that the word police officer doesn't sit well with most people here. I know that a lot of cops have given you guys a bad taste in your mouth; especially with all the reports of police brutally beating inmates and going around killing dogs to name a few.

I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. 

In those four years, I have seen pretty much every horror you can think of, child pornography in the hands of those sworn to protect this country, members of the military. I have seen gang bangers dead in the middle of the street, brain matter on the side-walk where they were gunned down. I have seen women beaten so badly by their significant others and not wanting to press charges, that it sickened me. I have even seen my fair share of suicides, which are some of the worse things to ever witness. 

I have arrested quite a few people, I have helped a woman give birth (I don't know how doctors do this), I have taken many many pedophiles off the streets, not once have I asked for praise or anything like that, I saw it as doing my job. In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. I have also never killed anyone's dog, whether it was a suspect's dog or just a regular family dog that came running to me, when I went out to check out a domestic disturbance. I have had hostile dogs try to attack me, but, a squirt of pepper spray took care of that. I have even saved a suspects life after they had a heart attack on me, while I was in the process of cuffing them. 

I have received various awards over the years from the chief, again not to be a glory hound or anything like that, but to do what I set out to do, and that was protect people that couldn't protect themselves as well as protect my city. I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two $#@!s about your rights. But, they are few and far between. Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our fellow officers behaviors. I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that, that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less. 

So while I understand why you guys have a certain distrust of us, I ask that you don't lump us all into that group. If I were like the cops you see in that video, I'd be pissed off at how many times you guys have used the word pig, and the fact that some of you even advocate mowing us down. However that is the glory of the Constitution, you can say what you want as long as it remains words, no one needs to go acting on such suggestions, no matter how bad a cop is. 

And before I'm asked... the how many question, here is your answers.

Dogs killed: 0
Suspects killed during arrest: 0 
Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100

Oh and if you ask about my name, why I called myself Fivezeroes, just another word for the cops. lol.  5.0

Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.

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## TheTexan

a) Until cops are held to the same legal standards as everyone else, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
b) Until cops no longer consistently and systemically cover up the crimes of their colleagues, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
c) Throwing people in a cage for selling a product to willing buyers is not cool.

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## thoughtomator

We'll be able to trust cops when we can trust them to hold each other to account for wrongdoing. The "thin blue line" is seditious in nature and is a primary cause of mistrust between LEO and citizen.

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## kcchiefs6465

> But, they are few and far between.


My experiences dictate otherwise.



I'd like to know if you are in a large or small police department? If you have ever heard of Regina Tasca? I'd like to know if you have ever seen something you did not agree with yet felt the urge to not speak about considering your respective officer's career? I would like to know that if you saw a civilian's rights being violated, whether that be from an active LEO or not, would you intervene? [and I'd remind you that LEO are nothing more than civilians themselves] I'd also like to know what your stances on the war on drugs is? Do you believe the problem would be better off with not locking up non-violent drugs offenders, pushing up the cost of illegal narcotics because you're pursuing them, and incentivizing an illegal black market of said drugs? I would like your position on gang violence? Do you feel gangs are a problem and why do you [if you do] think gang violence is affected by way of arresting drug dealers? Are you aware of the disparity between different groups [blacks vs whites, to be simple] with regards to drug 'crimes?'

Respectfully, these are a few questions I've wanted to ask but never had enough assurances that I wouldn't be beaten if I did. Though I have said variants of the questions over the years.

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## GomerPile

Thank you for your service...

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## Fivezeroes

> a) Until cops are held to the same legal standards as everyone else, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
> b) Until cops no longer consistently and systemically cover up the crimes of their colleagues, I will never accept the "bad apple" argument
> c) Throwing people in a cage for selling a product to willing buyers is not cool.



We can't control how the DA's decide to press charges or not, half the time it's not even up to the DA it's up to the mayor and if he or she doesn't feel like recruiting more cops, then they order the DA to drop charges. It's always political when you see crap like that happen.

Again, I can't change your opinion of us, the sad thing is you're so blinded by your hatred of a few dirty cops that you take it out on every other cop.


As for number 3... I actually agree, I find it to be a complete waste of tax payer dollars, but until the state governments or even the federal government stops this wasted war on drugs, I have to follow the law. Hell, a lot of cops would agree, if someone wants to kill themselves slowly with drugs, who are we to interfere.

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## Anti Federalist

> In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.


If they "smirked" at *you*, what do you suppose they did to *us*, out of your sight?

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## acptulsa

Well, I've dealt with good cops in my life, and appreciated them.  If you hold yourself to the standard you claim, fivezeroes, you're all right by me.

Pity you're so young (though I'm sure you disagree completely).  I'd be interested in the view of someone who has been in the business for an extended period about how the involvement of the Feds has changed, and how that has changed things.  If you have a friend who has been a cop for some decades, some of us would appreciate it if you'd get a sense of that and share it with us.  Of course, that's entirely up to you.  It's just a subject that interests many of us.

Welcome to the forum.  It'll be nice to have someone to help me say (as I do once in a while), don't condemn the good with the bad.  And I hope you keep a sense of humor about it, and don't mind getting a little outraged at the bad apples yourself.  After all, it's you they harm by association...

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## Anti Federalist

> Thank you for your service...


How come I don't get thanked for my "service"?

How come I don't get to board an airplane first?

I work at a very dangerous job (much more so than a cop) supplying a product that, without which, life as you know it would cease to exist, and you would, in all likelihood, die.

And I don't put a gun to your head for my pay or for kicks or as part of my job.

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## awake

Some questions:

Which laws on the books are criminal in nature ; the ones you will refuse to enforce? Name one unjust law?

Will you arrest and shoot American citizens if the order is given?

Have you ever driven over the speed limit and pulled others over and took money from them for doing the same thing?

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## TheTexan

> We can't control how the DA's decide to press charges or not, half the time it's not even up to the DA it's up to the mayor and if he or she doesn't feel like recruiting more cops, then they order the DA to drop charges. It's always political when you see crap like that happen.
> 
> Again, I can't change your opinion of us, the sad thing is you're so blinded by your hatred of a few dirty cops that you take it out on every other cop.


It's not just the DA.  It's the courts.  It's the police chief.  It's the cops themselves.  Far too many times have I seen a crime by cop go unpunished, because that cop's boss said "policy was followed."

That reminds me.. I forgot her name, but remember that cop that got fired for defending a person from being repeatedly and unnecessarily assaulted by her colleague?  They admitted "policy was followed" but claimed "she probably never read those policies anyway" and fired her.

Good cops get fired.  Bad cops get promoted.  It's a systemic problem, with the _institution_, not simply individuals.




> As for number 3... I actually agree, I find it to be a complete waste of tax payer dollars, but until the state governments or even the federal government stops this wasted war on drugs, I have to follow the law. Hell, a lot of cops would agree, if someone wants to kill themselves slowly with drugs, who are we to interfere.


That "I was only following orders" argument doesn't fly very well on these forums FYI.

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## kcchiefs6465

> That reminds me.. I forgot her name, *but remember that cop that got fired for defending a person from being repeatedly and unnecessarily assaulted by her colleague?*  They admitted "policy was followed" but claimed "she probably never read those policies anyway" and fired her.


Regina Tasca

And FWIW they had her committed for a psych eval.

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## GomerPile

Because you didn't take the time to write a thoughtful post about your job...

I also appreciate it when my employees work hard and try to do a good job.




> How come I don't get thanked for my "service"?

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## Expatriate

Thanks for posting your story. I criticize bad cops and LE policies on here a lot, but I try not to generalize too much because I am sure there are some who joined for noble reasons like you describe.

Couple questions:

1. When you went through police academy/training or whatever was required, did you see more potential "good cops" getting washed out than "bad cops" or vice versa? Is there any kind of process of elimination that is responsible for more of the "thuggish" types making it through due to their perceived toughness?

2. Again during training, was there an abundance of people that wanted to be cops simply for the power it gave them? Do you think police work attracts those types?

3. What's your opinion on the Dorner fiasco? Do you ever see the kind of "police brotherhood" corruption he complained about in your department? 

4. Assuming you're here because you have libertarian or voluntaryist leanings, do you have a problem doing your job when it requires you to use force against purely non-violent criminals like potheads? What's your opinion on drug/prostitution legalization? edit: I see you answered this already

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## Fivezeroes

> My experiences dictate otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to know if you are in a large or small police department? If you have ever heard of Regina Tasca? I'd like to know if you have ever seen something you did not agree with yet felt the urge to not speak about considering your respective officer's career? I would like to know that if you saw a civilian's rights being violated, whether that be from an active LEO or not would you intervene? [and I'd remind you that LEO are nothing more than civilians themselves] I'd also like to know what your stances on the war on drugs is? Do you believe the problem would be better off with not locking up non-violent drugs offenders, pushing up the cost of illegal narcotics because you're pursuing them, and incentivizing an illegal black market of said drugs? I would like your position on gang violence? Do you feel gangs are a problem and why do you [if you do] think gang violence is affected by way of arresting drug dealers? Are you aware of the disparity between different groups [blacks vs whites, to be simple] with regards to drug 'crimes?'
> 
> Respectfully, these are a few questions I've wanted to ask but never had enough assurances that I wouldn't be beatin if I did. Though I have said variants of the questions over the years.



Hmm... lets see where to start.. 
I'd say the police department I'm with is fairly large, it's not a small-town PD if that's what you're asking. I have never heard of Regina Tasca, well hadn't until I just looked her up, what she did was commendable and what the PD did to her after 20 years is complete bull$#@!. If you're referring to police brutality, no I haven't seen any of that other than in videos and hope to never see it in my department. To be quite honest, I've never seen anything bad at my department, never seen a fellow officer cross the line into no mans land, and never seen one really abuse his authority just because he could. 

But, yes, if I were to ever witness something like that happening, I would damn sure do my best to stop it. And I would go directly to IA on whoever did it. As I remind all recruits that come right out of the academy, well those stationed in my precinct anyway "You took an oath, don't disgrace the badge". My stance on drugs is this, if you want to use hard drugs, cocaine, heroin, crack, by all means do it. You're destroying your own body and eventually, you'll die from it. There's no reason to put people in jail for it, it's a waste of tax payer money. As for the people who want to partake of the herb, I see no harm in it. No reason to arrest someone for smoking mary j. 

My true opinion on the war on drugs is, it's not working. It's costing billions of dollars a year, and yea, sure you'll get a drug lord off the street every once in a blue moon, but the next day there is someone else there to step up. Completely, useless. 

There isn't a whole lot of gang violence here, but there is some. And it doesn't matter how many we arrest for dealing, the violence will always be there. To gangs it's all about what block you grew up on, what colors you wear. There is no stopping it, and honestly I don't believe drugs are the main cause of the gang violence. As for disparity, well, you have a lot more blacks dealing harder drugs than whites. Whites mostly deal Mary J, while blacks mostly deal cocaine, crack, etc. At least in the cases where I've busted a few. I wish that I could tell you that I sat them down had a good talk with them and it changed their ways, sadly I would be lying if I said that.

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## Anti Federalist

> Because you didn't take the time to write a thoughtful post about your job...
> 
> I also appreciate it when my employees work hard and try to do a good job.


LOL - That was a very tongue in cheek response on my part...I don't *expect* random strangers to thank me for doing my job or not shoving a gun in their face.

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## FSP-Rebel

I've had mostly good experiences with the police because I show respect, speak coherently, clean cut and I don't badger them like some. That said, when I bounced at a nightclub in Novi I left work early because we were dead and noticed a gang of chaldeans beating up on some others and so I called the local police. This was at around one in the morning and w/i 5 minutes it seemed like the entire squad showed up. The aggressors were feeding the sergeant a line of bs on what happened so I yelled over claiming that wasn't the case. And, then the guy flipped out on me and told his officers to put me in my car or I'd be arrested for public disorder. As I'm filing the report, there was an officer on either side of me outside the car and it was clear they were looking in the car for anything they could find in plain view. They clearly knew where I worked and what I did based on the suit I was wearing yet the disheveled and unfit sergeant acted heavy anyway despite a nasty incident was happening where two dudes were getting their asses beat all over the parking lot. As I left, I told the one officer that I was glad they came and stopped the fight but that I'd probably just let it go next time based on how they treated me, the guy that initiated the contact to stop the violence. That said, I have cousins and others that are sheriffs around here and they're hiring so I'm on the short list.

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## TheTexan

This cop was acquitted.  The courtroom was packed with officers who all applauded the verdict.

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## The Gold Standard

I look at police the same way I look at the military (and they really are one and the same these days anyway). The majority of cops I've dealt with seemed to be decent people, and I'm sure most are, and I try not to judge people in groups. I'm sure they are trying to serve the community (or country in the case of the military) and earn a living. The ones that get off and thrive on stomping on our throats and blasting our dogs sicken me, but the rest I put most of the blame their superiors. They are ordering and training you to be a standing army and instill fear in the public of their government's power.

Obviously the moral solution would be to stop the bad cops or turn them in or find another job. It isn't always that easy though, so I don't expect all of the good cops to up and resign tomorrow. I just think the problem would be solved higher up the food chain.

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## Fivezeroes

> Thanks for posting your story. I criticize bad cops and LE policies on here a lot, but I try not to generalize too much because I am sure there are some who joined for noble reasons like you describe.
> 
> Couple questions:
> 
> 1. When you went through police academy/training or whatever was required, did you see more potential "good cops" getting washed out than "bad cops" or vice versa? Is there any kind of process of elimination that is responsible for more of the "thuggish" types making it through due to their perceived toughness?
> 
> 2. Again during training, was there an abundance of people that wanted to be cops simply for the power it gave them? Do you think police work attracts those types?
> 
> 3. What's your opinion on the Dorner fiasco? Do you ever see the kind of "police brotherhood" corruption he complained about in your department? 
> ...



1. Surprisingly enough, a lot of the bad candidates in my academy class all washed out, over in another thread, I posted about a potential that couldn't stop shooting fake hostages.

2. I'm not 100% sure about everyone, but I know of at least five out of the 15 that made it through, wanted to be cops to protect those that couldn't protect themselves,

3. I think that Dorner had some massive dirt on the LAPD and that he was murdered. While there is a sense of brotherhood, all of us have an even bigger sense of justice and wouldn't let corruption fly if we knew about it.

4. Drugs in my opinion should be legalized, it would save a lot of tax payer money and would clear up jail cells for the real criminals out there, the rapist, murderers etc. Did you know that someone in possession of an 8ball of crack, will get almost as much time as a rapist. Where's the justice in that? As for the whole non-violent thing, there have been times when I've had a pothead resist, most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.

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## TheTexan

> most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want *to have to do* is slam someone into the ground hurting them.


Have to?

You have to slam a peaceful person's head into the ground?

For what?

To put food on your table?

To send your children to school?

How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?

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## presence

Ok.. I want to play too. I've got a simple question:


Why in my years have I ***NEVER*** seen a cop driving under the speed limit on the interstate?

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## Fivezeroes

> Some questions:
> 
> Which laws on the books are criminal in nature ; the ones you will refuse to enforce? Name one unjust law?
> 
> Will you arrest and shoot American citizens if the order is given?
> 
> Have you ever driven over the speed limit and pulled others over and took money from them for doing the same thing?



1. There are many unjust laws that I refuse to enforce, such as jailing someone who is doing 1 mile over the limit. Yes, that is means enough to put someone in jail and completely unjust especially when we get away with speeding. If you want a more specific answer, put which law you think is unjust, other than drug laws, which I have no choice but to follow as much as I hate to.

2. $#@! no, I refuse to shoot a fellow American, I don't want to shoot anyone if I can help it, and if given the order, I'd defect.

3. Nope, I would never allow myself to be bribed, nor would I pull anyone for speeding unless they were doing more than 10 miles over, after that I have no choice.

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## Fivezeroes

> Ok.. I want to play too. I've got a simple question:
> 
> 
> Why in my years have I ***NEVER*** seen a cop driving under the speed limit on the interstate?




That one, I cannot answer, as much as I'd love to tell you, because they were heading to a crime scene, I can't.  It pisses me off to when I'm off-duty and in my personal vehicle, to see a cop doing more than 20 miles over.

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## Fivezeroes

> Have to?
> 
> You have to slam a peaceful person's head into the ground?
> 
> For what?
> 
> To put food on your table?
> 
> To send your children to school?
> ...




Why does it matter what I say to you, your opinion about us is already made up?  But, I'll tell you why.

Yes, it's to put food on the table for my kid and a roof over his head. I have a responsibility to him, to help him live a good life in this crappy world, with the way the economy is going, with there being hardly any jobs out there, this one keeps my son from being homeless. 

As I said,  if I can talk them into just surrendering peacefully it makes my day better, there is massive paper work to fill out when incidents of that nature happens. IA comes down on your ass hard if you intentionally hurt anyone. Like I said, I prefer not having to use brute force on anyone. But just because I use force to bring them to the ground doesn't mean that I have ever went overboard with it.

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## TheTexan

> Yes, it's to put food on the table for my kid and a roof over his head. I have a responsibility to him, to help him live a good life in this crappy world, with the way the economy is going, with there being hardly any jobs out there, this one keeps my son from being homeless.


You admit to using violence unjustly against an innocent person, but it's ok because you have to put food on the table.

How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?

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## kcchiefs6465

> Hmm... lets see where to start.. 
> I'd say the police department I'm with is fairly large, it's not a small-town PD if that's what you're asking. I have never heard of Regina Tasca, well hadn't until I just looked her up, what she did was commendable and what the PD did to her after 20 years is complete bull$#@!. If you're referring to police brutality, no I haven't seen any of that other than in videos and hope to never see it in my department. To be quite honest, I've never seen anything bad at my department, never seen a fellow officer cross the line into no mans land, and never seen one really abuse his authority just because he could. 
> 
> But, yes, if I were to ever witness something like that happening, I would damn sure do my best to stop it. And I would go directly to IA on whoever did it. As I remind all recruits that come right out of the academy, well those stationed in my precinct anyway "You took an oath, don't disgrace the badge". My stance on drugs is this, if you want to use hard drugs, cocaine, heroin, crack, by all means do it. You're destroying your own body and eventually, you'll die from it. There's no reason to put people in jail for it, it's a waste of tax payer money. As for the people who want to partake of the herb, I see no harm in it. No reason to arrest someone for smoking mary j. 
> 
> My true opinion on the war on drugs is, it's not working. It's costing billions of dollars a year, and yea, sure you'll get a drug lord off the street every once in a blue moon, but the next day there is someone else there to step up. Completely, useless. 
> 
> There isn't a whole lot of gang violence here, but there is some. And it doesn't matter how many we arrest for dealing, the violence will always be there. To gangs it's all about what block you grew up on, what colors you wear. There is no stopping it, and honestly I don't believe drugs are the main cause of the gang violence. As for disparity, well, you have a lot more blacks dealing harder drugs than whites. Whites mostly deal Mary J, while blacks mostly deal cocaine, crack, etc. At least in the cases where I've busted a few. I wish that I could tell you that I sat them down had a good talk with them and it changed their ways, sadly I would be lying if I said that.


Well thank you for answering. From personal experiences I have seen quite a lot from police and affiliated agencies. I have been robbed from, chained out of their personal dislike of me, I've had evidence planted on friends, my car threatened to be impounded from said 'evidence.' I've had 'witnesses' come by to acknowledge me as a perpetrator.. only after being chained for 6 to 8 hours the cop to say there were no witnesses. I have had friends beaten, comatosed, orbital sockets shattered. [multiple friends, though only one was comatose for a week] I've seen trumped up charges against different friends. I've had police laugh in my face about my rights. Try to box me as a young child. [while I'm cuffed] I've had charges that they've known wouldn't stick, that they knew I did commit levvied. I've been threatened [while I'm peacefully asserting I did not commit any crime and I am not resisting in any way] with being tasered. I have been threatened with execution. I have seen a couple of the said cops move to a position of Chief of Police while the other is a Lieuteniant. I have had a police officer remove his gloves and try to fight me for waiting on the bus on 'his corner.' [different one] I've had a police officer accelerate to try to hit me decelerating from 55 MPH or so down to 0 in 150 feet. [he was racing towards a red light and purposely tried to run me over- I'm not exaggerating, I couldn't believe it myself]  I've had a cop let their dog run wild through my car. I've had them rip my side panels and dash apart- only to find nothing. I've had a cop throw me in the mud. Molest my underage girlfriend on the premise of drugs. [I was 18 she was 17] A male cop when there were 5 or 6 different female cops around. [only to be let go with traffic tickets] I really could go on and on. Forgive me for being biased. You seem like a reasonable man. Pick a different profession, and we could be friends. I've got a mild case of PTSD with you $#@!s harrassing me. [not you, police in general] I can't see a cop without having a nonvoluntary reaction. And I've been all over the states. From small police departments to big police departments. Believe it or not, everything I said is true.

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## Fivezeroes

> This cop was acquitted.  The courtroom was packed with officers who all applauded the verdict.




He's either a LT or a Captain one, I'm not sure what New York's uniforms look like as far as rank goes, but that right there is why he walked. Because of his bull$#@! rank. I told you, it's always political when $#@! like that happens. Had you done that to a cop, you would have served a mandatory 2 years for assault on a police officer.

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## AGRP

> I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers.  Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less.


Its that attitude that seriously bothers me.  No victim, no crime.  

There is _no honor_ in kidnapping and locking people in cages when there is *no victim*. An honorable person could not live with themself knowing they lock people up for doing something that didnt hurt anyone against their will.  Why dont you lock up boxers and mma fighters? Surely, that would stop violence.   Isnt there stolen property to track down or break ins to be investigated? 

Throwing people in cages for victimless crimes is not the solution.  You should know better. If you _really_ wanted to end these problems then why dont you become someone who educates?

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## Fivezeroes

> Well thank you for answering. From personal experiences I have seen quite a lot from police and affiliated agencies. I have been robbed from, chained out of their personal dislike of me, I've had evidence planted on friends, my car threatened to be impounded from said 'evidence.' I've had 'witnesses' come by to acknowledge me as a perpetrator.. only after being chained for 6 to 8 hours the cop to say there were no witnesses. I have had friends beaten, comatosed, orbital sockets shattered. [multiple friends, though only one was comatose for a week] I've seen trumped up charges against different friends. I've had police laugh in my face about my rights. Try to box me as a young child. [while I'm cuffed] I've had charges that they've known wouldn't stick, that they knew I did commit levvied. I've been threatened [while I'm peacefully asserting I did not commit any crime and I am not resisting in any way] with being tasered. I have been threatened with execution. I have seen a couple of the said cops move to a position of Chief of Police while the other is a Lieuteniant. I have had a police officer remove his gloves and try to fight me for waiting on the bus on 'his corner.' [different one] I've had a police officer accelerate to try to hit me decelerating from 55 MPH or so down to 0 in 150 feet. [he was racing towards a red light and purposely tried to run me over- I'm not exaggerating, I couldn't believe it myself]  I've had a cop let their dog run wild through my car. I've had them rip my side panels and dash apart- only to find nothing. I've had a cop throw me in the mud. Molest my underage girlfriend on the premise of drugs. [I was 18 she was 17] A male cop when there were 5 or 6 different female cops around. [only to be let go with traffic tickets] I really could go on and on. Forgive me for being biased. You seem like a reasonable man. Pick a different profession, and we could be friends. I've got a mild case of PTSD with you $#@!s harrassing me. [not you, police in general] I can't see a cop without having a nonvoluntary reaction. And I've been all over the states. From small police departments to big police departments. Believe it or not, everything I said is true.



I am sorry that you and your girlfriend had to go through all that. I wish I could say that, those cops followed SOP when they searched your gf but it's not true, a female may only be searched by another female. Answer me this, did you guys contact a lawyer about it, police have mics on them at all times, those audio recordings could be submitted for evidence. 

I'm not sure where you live at, but, it does sound to me like the PD around you is corrupt as $#@!.

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## Fivezeroes

> Its that attitude that seriously bothers me.  No victim, no crime.  
> 
> There is _no honor_ in kidnapping and locking people in cages when there is *no victim*. An honorable person could not live with themself knowing they lock people up for doing something that didnt hurt anyone against their will.  Why dont you lock up boxers and mma fighters? Surely, that would stop violence.   Isnt there stolen property to track down or break ins to be investigated? 
> 
> Throwing people in cages for victimless crimes is not the solution.  You should know better. If you _really_ wanted to end these problems then why dont you become someone who educates?



It's not a victimless crime when one banger kills another banger because he's selling on his turf, is what I mean when I say drug dealers. I could care less how many people want to destroy their bodies with drugs, when another banger is gunned down, that becomes murder. 

I agree, I would much rather be investigating murder, robberies and other stuff, than have to go out and arrest someone for dealing drugs, as long as no one gets murdered doing it, so be it.

----------


## acptulsa

> You admit to using violence unjustly against an innocent person, but it's ok because you have to put food on the table.
> 
> How's that any different from how members of criminal gangs justify their activities?


I suggest you go back to the post you initially reacted to, reread it, and (if really necessary) look up the word 'resist'.

You clearly want to hold this man to an ancap standard and he clearly isn't an ancap.

----------


## bolil

Hmmmm, so how do you feel about "police discretion"?  I was kidnapped by your brothers once, they admitted I had committed no crime, and claimed that they could force me to go to a hospital for an evaluation based upon their "discretion" and hear-say.  Best part is the nerve damage from the cuffs.  Who needs to feel the side of their thumb anyways?

I've little problem with good cops, I guess I've just never met one.  They are like Unicorns.  You might be one, and if so good on you.

I do appreciate that you (good) guys will follow the law, if the laws were better you would follow them aswell.  I guess I am human and generalize.

I do remember auditing a LE class at my community college.  The lesson of the day: How to manufacture probable cause.

...manufacture.

----------


## TheTexan

> Answer me this, did you guys contact a lawyer about it, police have mics on them at all times, those audio recordings could be submitted for evidence.


Dashcams and other department owned recording devices have a tendency to fail for some reason when they record cops committing crimes.  I don't know why that is, but it happens a lot.  Should get a different supplier for those things or something.

For example this thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lice-Testimony

For some reason, not a single one of the cop's cameras worked that day.  Not a dashcam.  Nothing.  Oddly enough the protester's cameras worked fine.  The protester's camera even recorded a cop holding a camera with the recording light on.  But I guess it was a malfunction, because according to the department, that cop wasn't even _there at all_, but was on some sort of secret mission. 

That police department really needs to ask the protester's what cameras they use, they seem to work a lot better

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Dashcams and other department owned recording devices have a tendency to fail for some reason when they record cops committing crimes.  I don't know why that is, but it happens a lot.  Should get a different supplier for those things or something.
> 
> For example this thread:
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lice-Testimony
> 
> For some reason, not a single one of the cop's cameras worked that day.  Not a dashcam.  Nothing.  Oddly enough the protester's cameras worked fine.  The protester's camera even recorded a cop holding a camera with the recording light on.  But I guess it was a malfunction, because according to the department, that cop wasn't even _there at all_, but was on some sort of secret mission. 
> 
> That police department really needs to ask the protester's what cameras they use, they seem to work a lot better



There are only 3 people who have access to police dash cams. The SGT. LT, CPT. 99% of the time it's handled by the SGT, but as I said... Look at this cops uniform, he was either a LT or CPT and I'm half tempted to say he's def a LT. Which would give him access to all of that, which in turn makes him a dirty $#@!ing pig. Nothing pisses me off more than a dirty cop.

----------


## TheTexan

> I suggest you go back to the post you initially reacted to, reread it, and (if really necessary) look up the word 'resist'.
> 
> You clearly want to hold this man to an ancap standard and he clearly isn't an ancap.


It's not about ancap.  It's about his own stated beliefs.

He said that the drug war is wrong and that people should be allowed to destroy their own bodies.  He then went on to say that he assaulted _otherwise_ peaceful people, because he needed to put food on the table.

If you assault someone and they resist your aggression, I don't care if you're ancap or not, that's not justification to assault them further.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I am sorry that you and your girlfriend had to go through all that. I wish I could say that, those cops followed SOP when they searched your gf but it's not true, a female may only be searched by another female. Answer me this, did you guys contact a lawyer about it, police have mics on them at all times, those audio recordings could be submitted for evidence. 
> 
> I'm not sure where you live at, but, it does sound to me like the PD around you is corrupt as $#@!.


We contacted a lawyer. There were about 15-20 cop cars on scene with another few showing up after the fact. All recording but all but one was malfunctioning. [though all cops had their lights flashing] All audio was malfunctioning. They admitted right to our faces that the baggy they found was not in the car. They pointed to a friend and said, you want to be a tough guy, it's yours. Charged him with paraphenalia. [for an empty bag, no trace nothing] They wanted to impound my car for a weed seed. [that's all they found after waiting 45 minutes for a drug dog to trample his dirty ass feet through my car] It freaked my gf out. Male pig ran his hands around her panty line while a female cop looked on. She literally wouldn't look me in the eye. Chief of Police said it didn't sound like his officers. They wouldn't do that. Dropped the charges on a friend. I had to pay my traffic tickets. [maybe I could have fought them but at the time I was just done] A few hundred dollar tickets and that was about that. 

My friend in the coma didn't get any money either.

My friend with the broken orbital socket [for not running, while everyone else did] didn't get any money either.

It's a systemic problem.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Hmmmm, so how do you feel about "police discretion"?  I was kidnapped by your brothers once, they admitted I had committed no crime, and claimed that they could force me to go to a hospital for an evaluation based upon their "discretion" and hear-say.  Best part is the nerve damage from the cuffs.  Who needs to feel the side of their thumb anyways?
> 
> I've little problem with good cops, I guess I've just never met one.  They are like Unicorns.  You might be one, and if so good on you.
> 
> I do appreciate that you (good) guys will follow the law, if the laws were better you would follow them aswell.  I guess I am human and generalize.
> 
> I do remember auditing a LE class at my community college.  The lesson of the day: How to manufacture probable cause.
> 
> ...manufacture.


May I ask, and feel free to tell me to go $#@! myself. What you were doing the day that they arrested you on probable cause, what was their justification? When we arrest you, we have to at least give you the cause you're being arrested for, whether it be probable cause or an actual crime. Some cops need to be retrained on how to put people in cuffs, the bad thing is, in academy, everything we use on you, we have used on us....so why would these idiots treat someone like that.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> It's not a victimless crime when one banger kills another banger because he's selling on his turf, is what I mean when I say drug dealers. I could care less how many people want to destroy their bodies with drugs, when another banger is gunned down, that becomes murder. 
> 
> I agree, I would much rather be investigating murder, robberies and other stuff, than have to go out and arrest someone for dealing drugs, as long as no one gets murdered doing it, so be it.


Do you agree that the drug war is encouraging these murders? I'd remind of the prohibition of alcohol and Al Capone. It is breeding these 'thugs.' It breeds the violence.

----------


## TheTexan

> There are only 3 people who have access to police dash cams. The SGT. LT, CPT. 99% of the time it's handled by the SGT, but as I said... Look at this cops uniform, he was either a LT or CPT and I'm half tempted to say he's def a LT. Which would give him access to all of that, which in turn makes him a dirty $#@!ing pig. Nothing pisses me off more than a dirty cop.


Let's just say that you're correct.  That low level cops are held to proper justice, and high level cops are not.  This means, when a high level cop commits a crime, the low level cops are complicit in covering it up.

That doesn't exactly make me feel better, that only the higher level cops are corrupt, and the low level cops are only _complicit_ in the corruption.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> We contacted a lawyer. There were about 15-20 cop cars on scene with another few showing up after the fact. All recording but all but one was malfunctioning. [though all cops had their lights flashing] All audio was malfunctioning. They admitted right to our faces that the baggy they found was not in the car. They pointed to a friend and said, you want to be a tough guy, it's yours. Charged him with paraphenalia. [for an empty bag, no trace nothing] They wanted to impound my car for a weed seed. [that's all they found after waiting 45 minutes for a drug dog to trample his dirty ass feet through my car] It freaked my gf out. Male pig ran his hands around her panty line while a female cop looked on. She literally wouldn't look me in the eye. Chief of Police said it didn't sound like his officers. They wouldn't do that. Dropped the charges on a friend. I had to pay my traffic tickets. [maybe I could have fought them but at the time I was just done] A few hundred dollar tickets and that was about that. 
> 
> My friend in the coma didn't get any money either.
> 
> My friend with the broken orbital socket [for not running, while everyone else did] didn't get any money either.
> 
> It's a systemic problem.



Sounds like a typical corrupt Chief of Police. Most don't like to believe anything bad reported about their officers. What that officer did to your girlfriend, a minor at that is no less than pedophilia he should have been brought up on charges just for that alone. Again, I apologize you and your friends had to go through something like that.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Do you agree that the drug war is encouraging these murders? I'd remind of the prohibition of alcohol and Al Capone. It is breeding these 'thugs.' It breeds the violence.



I don't believe a lot of it has to do with drugs, more on the fact that it's a territorial war. Drugs play second fiddle to it. But you make a great point about prohibition, it does make you wonder whether it would stop if drugs were legalized... but then again, would it cause the problem to balloon, yea sure the drugs are legal now but you still have one banger on anothers territory.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Let's just say that you're correct.  That low level cops are held to proper justice, and high level cops are not.  This means, when a high level cop commits a crime, the low level cops are complicit in covering it up.
> 
> That doesn't exactly make me feel better, that only the higher level cops are corrupt, and the low level cops are only _complicit_ in the corruption.


How do you think it makes me feel, knowing that a LT used his access to police dashcams and audio to pretty much clear himself of any wrong doing. Like I said, dirty $#@!ing pigs.

----------


## AGRP

> It's not a victimless crime when one banger kills another banger because he's selling on his turf, is what I mean when I say drug dealers. I could care less how many people want to destroy their bodies with drugs, when another banger is gunned down, that becomes murder. 
> 
> I agree, I would much rather be investigating murder, robberies and other stuff, than have to go out and arrest someone for dealing drugs, as long as no one gets murdered doing it, so be it.


Buying and selling is a victimless crime.    

The "bangers" would hardly exist if prohibition was lifted.  They were not a problem before prohibition.  People are forced to buy from bangers because "law abiding" people can not openly sell them, so sketchy people have filled that void.  You should know this by now depending on how long you have been here.  If you continue to ignore this, then we can only assume you are in cognitive dissonance.

----------


## The Gold Standard

> May I ask, and feel free to tell me to go $#@! myself. What you were doing the day that they arrested you on probable cause, what was their justification? When we arrest you, we have to at least give you the cause you're being arrested for, whether it be probable cause or an actual crime. Some cops need to be retrained on how to put people in cuffs, the bad thing is, in academy, everything we use on you, we have used on us....so why would these idiots treat someone like that.


I'm glad to hear you aren't this way, but they don't care. They aren't going to get fired. If they kill us they will get a paid vacation and a promotion when they come back. If they don't give us the reason, what are us peasants going to do? You are going to see that you can get away with it too. Pretty much whatever you want. Hopefully it doesn't ruin you.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I've had mostly good experiences with the police because I show respect, speak coherently, clean cut and I don't badger them like some. That said, when I bounced at a nightclub in Novi I left work early because we were dead and noticed a gang of chaldeans beating up on some others and so I called the local police. This was at around one in the morning and w/i 5 minutes it seemed like the entire squad showed up. The aggressors were feeding the sergeant a line of bs on what happened so I yelled over claiming that wasn't the case. And, then the guy flipped out on me and told his officers to put me in my car or I'd be arrested for public disorder. As I'm filing the report, there was an officer on either side of me outside the car and it was clear they were looking in the car for anything they could find in plain view. They clearly knew where I worked and what I did based on the suit I was wearing yet the disheveled and unfit sergeant acted heavy anyway despite a nasty incident was happening where two dudes were getting their asses beat all over the parking lot. As I left, I told the one officer that I was glad they came and stopped the fight but that I'd probably just let it go next time based on how they treated me, the guy that initiated the contact to stop the violence. That said, I have cousins and others that are sheriffs around here and they're hiring so I'm on the short list.


I've seen this one. Was someone recording from across the street? PM if you need.

----------


## TheTexan

> Sounds like a typical corrupt Chief of Police.


Is it that corruption rises to the top?

Or that power corrupts?

Neither conclusion drawn has very good implications for the department as a whole.

----------


## The Gold Standard

> I don't believe a lot of it has to do with drugs, more on the fact that it's a territorial war. Drugs play second fiddle to it. But you make a great point about prohibition, it does make you wonder whether it would stop if drugs were legalized... but then again, would it cause the problem to balloon, yea sure the drugs are legal now but you still have one banger on anothers territory.


They guard their sales territory. They don't give a $#@! about guarding that land they don't even own. Those are their customers. If their customers can go to any drug store for their needs, they aren't going to start attacking drug stores, they will do something else.

----------


## bolil

> May I ask, and feel free to tell me to go $#@! myself. What you were doing the day that they arrested you on probable cause, what was their justification? When we arrest you, we have to at least give you the cause you're being arrested for, whether it be probable cause or an actual crime. Some cops need to be retrained on how to put people in cuffs, the bad thing is, in academy, everything we use on you, we have used on us....so why would these idiots treat someone like that.


There was no arrest, I was sleeping they woke me up and were standing over my bed.  Their justification is that "I was a threat to myself" (hear say, no proof just the words of a room mate whose girlfriend's advances were spurned by me).  They entered my room while I was sleeping, woke me up, put me in cuffs and said, "Your not under arrest, but your coming with us."  I don't know why they treated me like that, but I will never put any faith in a cop again.  Keep in mind, we have no way of telling if your a good cop or a bad cop, and usually we find out too late.

EDIT: I did destroy some of my own property, with an axe, a laptop that was broken to be specific.

I appreciate your being here, and letting us hash this garbage out.

If prohibition were ended these "gang bangers" would have access to the courts and to protection under the law.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I'm glad to hear you aren't this way, but they don't care. They aren't going to get fired. If they kill us they will get a paid vacation and a promotion when they come back. If they don't give us the reason, what are us peasants going to do? You are going to see that you can get away with it too. Pretty much whatever you want. Hopefully it doesn't ruin you.



In four years I haven't crossed into that corrupt territory, as long as I can make it to 20, I'll be retiring. So far I'm living up to my standards, I don't believe I'll ever cross over.

What you have to realize is even with drugs legalized, unless they start selling it OTC at the pharmacy, you're still going to have your territorial disputes between said bangers. I'm all for the legalization, if they put it on store shelves like they did with alcohol after prohibition was lifted, then even the territorial wars would go away, because neither side would have anything to sell. I just wish, that our dumbass government could see this.

----------


## LibForestPaul

Are you Deputy, Officer, or Trooper. I assume not Federal.
Large city or county/town.

Have you noticed recruitment standards chaning, and not for the better.

----------


## sluggo

Powdered or glazed?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I don't believe a lot of it has to do with drugs, more on the fact that it's a territorial war. Drugs play second fiddle to it. But you make a great point about prohibition, it does make you wonder whether it would stop if drugs were legalized... but then again, would it cause the problem to balloon, yea sure the drugs are legal now but you still have one banger on anothers territory.


Why is the one banger on 'another's turf?' Because drug profits from said area are lucrative. Yes, ending the drug war would solve this problem in most cities. Cities that have a history of gang warfare maybe not, but it would workd towards peace. Like LA or Chicago, people have been dying for so long that it would not end overnight, that is not to say that a recognization that drug laws hurt the problem would not start to fix the problem. After all, look at Ricky Ross and Danilo Blandon. [/Ollie North and CO.] As I recall, the crack cocaine epidemic seriously fueled gang violence. In all of the major drug hubs.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> They guard their sales territory. They don't give a $#@! about guarding that land they don't even own. Those are their customers. If their customers can go to any drug store for their needs, they aren't going to start attacking drug stores, they will do something else.



Yea, I just hashed that out, if you could get all your drugs in one place, the dealers would go bye bye. If only such a world existed.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Powdered or glazed?



My kind of question, was wondering when someone would ask it. Glazed of course! powder messes up my pants. lol.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Are you Deputy, Officer, or Trooper. I assume not Federal.
> Large city or county/town.
> 
> Have you noticed recruitment standards chaning, and not for the better.



I am an officer, while we do have both troopers and deputies (they handle the jails). I decided to go the officer route. My cousin is a deputy, being in the jail all day long didn't seem like it was much fun.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> There was no arrest, I was sleeping they woke me up and were standing over my bed.  Their justification is that "I was a threat to myself" (hear say, no proof just the words of a room mate whose girlfriend's advances were spurned by me).  They entered my room while I was sleeping, woke me up, put me in cuffs and said, "Your not under arrest, but your coming with us."  I don't know why they treated me like that, but I will never put any faith in a cop again.  Keep in mind, we have no way of telling if your a good cop or a bad cop, and usually we find out too late.
> 
> EDIT: I did destroy some of my own property, with an axe, a laptop that was broken to be specific.
> 
> I appreciate your being here, and letting us hash this garbage out.
> 
> If prohibition were ended these "gang bangers" would have access to the courts and to protection under the law.



I don't know what their rationale was or why they cuffed you the way they did. But, when we receive calls about someone possibly wanting to harm themselves, we have to action and try to save a life. Now, I'm not condoning what those officers did, especially not with how they handcuffed you and cause you to have perm nerve damage in your thumb but if I had to guess, I'd say they were doing it to try to prevent a possible suicide. Did they take you to a psych ward, if they did, then they were doing their job and again wanting to protect you, but did it in the worse possible way.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Is it that corruption rises to the top?
> 
> Or that power corrupts?
> 
> Neither conclusion drawn has very good implications for the department as a whole.



You know what they say about absolute power.... sadly, some get drawn in by its evil sway. I'm actually glad, our chief isn't like that.

----------


## bolil

> I don't know what their rationale was or why they cuffed you the way they did. But, when we receive calls about someone possibly wanting to harm themselves, we have to action and try to save a life. Now, I'm not condoning what those officers did, especially not with how they handcuffed you and cause you to have perm nerve damage in your thumb but if I had to guess, I'd say they were doing it to try to prevent a possible suicide. Did they take you to a psych ward, if they did, then they were doing their job and again wanting to protect you, but did it in the worse possible way.


Oh, so I could call the cops and say "So and So is threatening him/herself" and you would go there, and cuff them WITHOUT EVIDENCE because thats pretty much what happened to me?  They, and he, are just lucky I am a student without money or connections.  If you had to guess.  Lol, if I had to guess a pig is always going to grunt.  Im shocked at my own stupidity even getting into this thread.  Well, officer friendly, may you get your pension canine murder free.

----------


## coastie

> I don't know what their rationale was or why they cuffed you the way they did. But, when we receive calls about someone possibly wanting to harm themselves, we have to action and try to save a life. Now, I'm not condoning what those officers did, especially not with how they handcuffed you and cause you to have perm nerve damage in your thumb but if I had to guess, I'd say they were doing it to try to prevent a possible suicide. *Did they take you to a psych ward, if they did, then they were doing their job and again wanting to protect you, but did it in the worse possible way.*




Holy God. You been out of the academy for what, 6 months?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Holy God. You been out of the academy for what, 6 months?



Going on 3.5 years, now. You must have been military police, you guys do it differently?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

I'll come right out to say it, have you researched the crack cocaine epidemic thoroughly? The high reaching authority granted to the DEA, and co. to allow large shipments of cocaine to cross the border on military planes? I would suggest looking into Norwin Meneses, Don Tyson, Danilo Blandon, Ollie North, Barry Seal, and a host of others. You might want to ask why, Puerto Rican DEA, having known Norwin Meneses is a Class One narcotics trafficker, was allowed to operate with impunity for his career. Now I'm a little rusty here, but I'd suggest looking into his sons and nephews in the California Bay Area. [the crack cocaine epidemic] [I believe they were directly related, maybe they were only 'brothers'] Look into John Deutsch. Look into CIA head and later president George Bush Sr. Look into Reagan violating the Boland Amendment. You have to take all these variables into consideration when trying to determine the cause of the turf wars. Though it had been going on before 1979-1980 in LA, drug money definitely fueled it. At least, eventually fueled it. Look at the Cocaine Wars of Miami through the '70s and '80s and tell me, did we not partially create this problem?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Oh, so I could call the cops and say "So and So is threatening him/herself" and you would go there, and cuff them WITHOUT EVIDENCE because thats pretty much what happened to me?  They, and he, are just lucky I am a student without money or connections.  If you had to guess.  Lol, if I had to guess a pig is always going to grunt.  Im shocked at my own stupidity even getting into this thread.  Well, officer friendly, may you get your pension canine murder free.



Look, you said someone said that you were a danger to yourself. Even if they wanted to just question you they couldn't. What if they had let you go, and just dismissed this girls claim and you had committed suicide. That right there gets the PD sued, due to negligence. And judging from your reply, they took you directly to a psych ward to get you checked out, they were doing their jobs. Whether you like it or not. The person you should be pissed off at is the girl that lied on you and said you were a danger to yourself.

----------


## bolil

> Look, you said someone said that you were a danger to yourself. Even if they wanted to just question you they couldn't. What if they had let you go, and just dismissed this girls claim and you had committed suicide. That right there gets the PD sued, due to negligence. And judging from your reply, they took you directly to a psych ward to get you checked out, they were doing their jobs. Whether you like it or not. The person you should be pissed off at is the girl that lied on you and said you were a danger to yourself.


No, the cops that kidnapped me.  I expect people to lie, I don't expect people to kidnap me.  Again, no evidence to indicate suicidal intent.  Do sleeping people usually kill themselves, have you read anything I wrote.  Seems like your okay with that, though?  I suppose you have pulled similar $#@!.

What if that ride had so traumatized me that it led me to kill myself?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I'll come right out to say it, have you researched the crack cocaine epidemic thoroughly? The high reaching authorities granted to the DEA, and co. to allow large shipments of cocaine to cross the border on military planes? I would suggest looking into Norwin Meneses, Don Tyson, Danilo Blandon, Ollie North, Barry Seal, and a host of others. You might want to ask why, Puerto Rican DEA, having known Norwin Meneses is a Class One narcotics trafficker, was allowed to operate with impunity for his career. Now I'm a little rusty here, but I'd suggest looking into his sons and nephews in the California Bay Area. [the crack cocaine epidemic] [I believe they were directly related, maybe they were only 'brothers'] Look into John Deutsch. Look into CIA head and later president George Bush Sr. Look in Reagan violating the Boland Amendment. You have to take all these variables into consideration when trying to determine the cause of the turf wars. Though it had been going on before 1979-1980 in LA, drug money definitely fueled it. At least, eventually fueled it. Look at the Cocaine Wars of Miami through the '70s and '80s and tell me, did we not partially create this problem?



I can't say that I have, but I will look into it more. As I have stated all along though, if the government would legalize it and start selling it in every mom and pop store, drug dealers would be a thing of the past, gang wars would probably be a thing of the past as well. It would also allow us cops to focus on other important stuff.

----------


## bolil

> I can't say that I have, but I will look into it more. As I have stated all along though, if the government would legalize it and start selling it in every mom and pop store, drug dealers would be a thing of the past, gang wars would probably be a thing of the past as well. It would also allow us cops to focus on other important stuff.


Like finding new jobs.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No, the cops that kidnapped me.  I expect people to lie, I don't expect people to kidnap me.  Again, no evidence to indicate suicidal intent.  Do sleeping people usually kill themselves, have you read anything I wrote.  Seems like your okay with that, though?  I suppose you have pulled similar $#@!.
> 
> What if that ride had so traumatized me that it led me to kill myself?


If that ride had traumatized you so badly that you wanted to kill yourself, then I don't know. You want to know WHY $#@! like that was implemented, because of people being sue happy. No, I've never put someone in cuffs without telling them where they're going. I have responded to suicides though and be glad you had someone there that cared enough about you to even call the cops to have them come cart you off to be treated. Most suicides don't have people like that.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Like finding new jobs.


No, there will always be a need for the police, just because drugs get legalized, doesn't mean murder, rape and other horrible things go away.

----------


## Expatriate

> 1. Surprisingly enough, a lot of the bad candidates in my academy class all washed out, over in another thread, I posted about a potential that couldn't stop shooting fake hostages.
> 
> 2. I'm not 100% sure about everyone, but I know of at least five out of the 15 that made it through, wanted to be cops to protect those that couldn't protect themselves,
> 
> 3. I think that Dorner had some massive dirt on the LAPD and that he was murdered. While there is a sense of brotherhood, all of us have an even bigger sense of justice and wouldn't let corruption fly if we knew about it.
> 
> 4. Drugs in my opinion should be legalized, it would save a lot of tax payer money and would clear up jail cells for the real criminals out there, the rapist, murderers etc. Did you know that someone in possession of an 8ball of crack, will get almost as much time as a rapist. Where's the justice in that? As for the whole non-violent thing, there have been times when I've had a pothead resist, most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.


What I meant by force was not so much an escalation to physical violence due to someone resisting arrest, but the act of threatening a totally non-violent drug dealer/user with force if they do not submit to being cuffed and taken in. Some refer to it as _initiation of force_. It's probably the #1 reason I would not become a cop, although I can see how some would consider the work they get to do in curtailing violent crime to be worth having to enforce other laws they disagree with.

Do many of your fellow cops share your views on drugs?

Has your department gotten any of the Homeland Security grants and equipment I've heard about, and what do you and your fellow officers think of the increased militarization of police? Are you familiar with the Founding Fathers' concerns about standing armies and soldiers deployed among us, and are you or any of your coworkers concerned about this?

Do you ever refer to or think of people who are not cops as "civilians" or "citizens" as if you are something different even though police are supposed to be a civilian organization?

Seems to me that the idea of police equipped like soldiers (SWAT) busting into private homes and confiscating property to be auctioned off later sounds an awful lot like what the Third Amendment was written to prohibit, and the Second Amendment was written to discourage or prevent. Again, this is mostly because of the drug war, but what are your views on that sort of thing?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I can't say that I have, but I will look into it more. As I have stated all along though, if the government would legalize it and start selling it in every mom and pop store, drug dealers would be a thing of the past, gang wars would probably be a thing of the past as well. It would also allow us cops to focus on other important stuff.


Check out Gary Webb, [Excellent journalist] Mike Ruppert, [LAPD Sheriff] Mike Castillo. [DEA] Please read Dark Alliance by Gary Webb if you want some more understanding. I can recommend more books.

Please watch the CIA director when asked if they smuggled cocaine into the United States.

----------


## Pericles

> We'll be able to trust cops when we can trust them to hold each other to account for wrongdoing. The "thin blue line" is seditious in nature and is a primary cause of mistrust between LEO and citizen.


If there are good cops, there wouldn't be any bad cops.

----------


## bolil

> If that ride had traumatized you so badly that you wanted to kill yourself, then I don't know. You want to know WHY $#@! like that was implemented, because of people being sue happy. No, I've never put someone in cuffs without telling them where they're going. I have responded to suicides though and be glad you had someone there that cared enough about you to even call the cops to have them come cart you off to be treated. Most suicides don't have people like that.


Is it a genetic thing with cops to go with hear say?  Here it is again.  On a forum no less.  Your comprehension is either terrible or you are just being a jerk.

Your a cop, so it is a toss up.

----------


## bolil

> No, there will always be a need for the police, just because drugs get legalized, doesn't mean murder, rape and other horrible things go away.


Considering the percentage of drug related arrests, if drugs were legalized most cops would be out of a job.  90% of the prison population for drug offenses.

----------


## TheTexan

> Look, you said someone said that you were a danger to yourself. Even if they wanted to just question you they couldn't. What if they had let you go, and just dismissed this girls claim and you had committed suicide. That right there gets the PD sued, due to negligence. And judging from your reply, they took you directly to a psych ward to get you checked out, they were doing their jobs. Whether you like it or not. The person you should be pissed off at is the girl that lied on you and said you were a danger to yourself.


The courts have come to the conclusion (and I agree with this) that cops do not have an _obligation_ to help or save anyone.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Is it a genetic thing with cops to go with hear say?  Here it is again.  On a forum no less.  Your comprehension is either terrible or you are just being a jerk.



Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.

----------


## bolil

The point is THERE WAS NO THREAT.  THERE WAS BITTERNESS AND HEAR SAY and power tripping raw bacon.

----------


## coastie

> Going on 3.5 years, now. You must have been military police, you guys do it differently?


USCG Boarding Officer. Worked with State and Locals almost everyday, many of my stations were full of reservists' whose day jobs were police/sheriffs/state troopers, etc. I can only think of ONE out of those probably 25 guys over the years who was worth a $#@!, a Sgt. for the local PD here...somewhere he was forced to leave after arresting a local judge's kid for DUI, by the way. He's now active duty Coast Guard.

As far as potential mental cases go, I didn't handle those things, those are state laws, not federal. But, as I said earlier, I know and worked with enough cops over the years to know my best interests are not their number one concern, and now that it's mentioned, have heard some say they've locked people up like this, just out of spite...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> The courts have come to the conclusion (and I agree with this) that cops do not have an _obligation_ to help or save anyone.



I wish I still had my manual I'd show you the exact paragraph where it states what to do in the case of veiled threats, such as a veiled threat to commit bodily harm to one-self.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Please watch this video.

----------


## bolil

> Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.


And in the process threw so much $#@! my way I am still shoveling.  Boy, Im sure glad that cop is around.  What do you mean what the hear say is?  hear say is hear say... duh.

----------


## bolil

> I wish I still had my manual I'd show you the exact paragraph where it states what to do in the case of veiled threats, such as a veiled threat to commit bodily harm to one-self.


Yeah, what is veiled?  A body gesture?  Perhaps a strange blink?  Hear say is bull$#@!.  Everytime.  You know, I heard from my buddy that this forum dweller named Fivezeroes told him that he planned on shooting nuns.  Better call the freaking cops so they can help him.

----------


## coastie

> Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.


I'm sorry, can you name the case law that says the cops are responsible for citizen safety? There's several that say otherwise. Cops don't even lose their jobs for outright murdering people, you think one would lose his job for someone killing themselves or another if they don't show up to a hear-say call? C'mon, I even had more common sense than this when I first started out.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> USCG Boarding Officer. Worked with State and Locals almost everyday, many of my stations were full of reservists' whose day jobs were police/sheriffs/state troopers, etc. I can only think of ONE out of those probably 25 guys over the years who was worth a $#@!, a Sgt. for the local PD here...somewhere he was forced to leave after arresting a local judge's kid for DUI, by the way. He's now active duty Coast Guard.
> 
> As far as potential mental cases go, I didn't handle those things, those are state laws, not federal. But, as I said earlier, I know and worked with enough cops over the years to know my best interests are not their number one concern, and now that it's mentioned, have heard some say they've locked people up like this, just out of spite...



Usually with potential mental cases or section 8's as I believe the military calls them, we pick them up and take them to a psych ward and drop them off for eval. Once that is done, the psychiatrist decides whether or not there needs to be an emergency hearing to have said eval locked up for treatment. As I told bolil, I don't condone what they were doing to him, but as I said, I do believe that in their minds that they truly thought they were saving his life.

----------


## bolil

> Usually with potential mental cases or section 8's as I believe the military calls them, we pick them up and take them to a psych ward and drop them off for eval. Once that is done, the psychiatrist decides whether or not there needs to be an emergency hearing to have said eval locked up for treatment. As I told bolil, I don't condone what they were doing to him, but as I said, I do believe that in their minds that they truly thought they were saving his life.


Doing is right. Those trips are documented and I don't suppose I will be able to purchase firearms in the future.  Because of an accusation and either spiteful or stupid cops.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I'm sorry, can you name the case law that says the cops are responsible for citizen safety? There's several that say otherwise. Cops don't even lose their jobs for outright murdering people, you think one would lose his job for someone killing themselves or another if they don't show up to a hear-say call? C'mon, I even had more common sense than this when I first started out.



If a cop investigates a hear-say call, and then determines that the person is a danger to themselves or others, they need to be dropped off at a psych ward for further eval. I'm not sure of any state law that says we have to, but, again, people are sue happy these days. And I don't know what oath people take these days but mine was to serve and protect the public and to uphold the Constitutions of both Virginia and the United States. 

Other hear say stuff, such as someone saying that he or she overheard them saying they were going to rob a bank, is pretty much ignored, but in this day and age when suicide is on the rise, you can't take any chances again, due to sue happy people.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Doing is right. Those trips are documented and I don't suppose I will be able to purchase firearms in the future.  Because of an accusation and either spiteful or stupid cops.



It depends, were you forcefully admitted to the psych ward or were you just evaluated and released. If it was an eval and release or you agreed to be admitted and didn't have to be forcefully admitted by a judge, then you can still purchase a firearm.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Yeah, what is veiled?  A body gesture?  Perhaps a strange blink?  Hear say is bull$#@!.  Everytime.  You know, I heard from my buddy that this forum dweller named Fivezeroes told him that he planned on shooting nuns.  Better call the freaking cops so they can help him.



Careful now, don't go saying anything like that. In Virginia even hinting at online threats is a class five felony. (I'd ignore that one, that's one dumbass law)

----------


## seapilot

Fivezeros, you must have realized that you opened a can of worms? 

On another subject besides your job how did you get interested in Liberty and Ron Paul?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Fivezeros, you must have realized that you opened a can of worms? 
> 
> On another subject besides your job how did you get interested in Liberty and Ron Paul?



I kept hearing the name of Ron Paul, Ron Paul, Ron Paul, so went to google and started researching him and the more that I found out, the more I realized how awesome a guy he is. I would have loved nothing more than to see him in the white house right now.


and yea, I realize I opened a can of worms, but, it's all good debate. Maybe eventually I can convince some of these guys, that we're not all bad.

----------


## bolil

> Careful now, don't go saying anything like that. In Virginia even hinting at online threats is a class five felony. (I'd ignore that one, that's one dumbass law)


Seeing as there is PROOF of a threat.  Hear say leaves no proof, and without behavioral proof (sleeping people don't generally kill themselves) there is none.

Ill take my first over your sensibilities.

Anyways, enough of that, get to some other peoples questions.  That wound is raw, and I don't mean to hijack your thread.

Oh $#@!, I said Hijack, I didn't mean it I swear... pffft.

----------


## coastie

> If a cop investigates a hear-say call, and then determines that the person is a danger to themselves or others, they need to be dropped off at a psych ward for further eval. *I'm not sure of any state law that says we have to, but, again, people are sue happy these days*. And I don't know what oath people take these days but mine was to serve and protect the public and to uphold the Constitutions of both Virginia and the United States. 
> 
> Other hear say stuff, such as someone saying that he or she overheard them saying they were going to rob a bank, is pretty much ignored, but in this day and age when suicide is on the rise, you can't take any chances again, due to sue happy people.


Um, you're supposed to be enforcing laws(which you are unsure of, wtf?)-not worried about whether your dept. would be sued. 

I know how that process works, a past roommate was carted off in this manner(I didn't call, I wasn't even home). He got pretty drunk, and said some $#@! alluding to suicide(word of mouth, again, I wasn't there)...He killed himself anyway 2 weeks later, right after he got out of the psych ward. Knowing what I know now, I imagine it was because of the harrowing experience of being beaten and tazed in your own home, his experience in the ward, and the drugs they forced upon him. I'll admit he had issues(not suicidal that I ever saw), but I'm sure his experience hurt more than it helped.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Seeing as their is PROOF of a threat.  Hear say leaves no proof, and without behavioral proof (sleeping people don't generally kill themselves) there is none.
> 
> Ill take my first over your sensibilities.



What I'm saying is careful on making online threats, they are felonies. Say you were joking around about killing a friend. Just a word of advice, not meant to infringe on your first at all. 

The thing is how was this officer to know that you were indeed asleep on your own accord and not asleep with the help of some other drugs, like a large quantity used to off yourself. You say sleeping people don't generally kill themselves, well, most people who are suspected of wanting to harm themselves tend to OD and thus they would be asleep, when the high dosage took effect.  I can't convince you that what he did, he believed was right. 

I do thank you for the debate though, I thank all of you for it. It's fun when people can debate without things going into name calling, etc.

----------


## bolil

> What I'm saying is careful on making online threats, they are felonies. Say you were joking around about killing a friend. Just a word of advice, not meant to infringe on your first at all. 
> 
> The thing is how was this officer to know that you were indeed asleep on your own accord and not asleep with the help of some other drugs, like a large quantity used to off yourself. You say sleeping people don't generally kill themselves, well, most people who are suspected of wanting to harm themselves tend to OD and thus they would be asleep, when the high dosage took effect.  I can't convince you that what he did, he believed was right. 
> 
> I do thank you for the debate though, I thank all of you for it. It's fun when people can debate without things going into name calling, etc.


I actually hadn't thought of that.  It is possible I am wrong in my sentiments regarding this.  And I didn't make any threats, I ran through a hypothetical to better elucidate my feelings.

----------


## coastie

> Careful now, don't go saying anything like that. In Virginia even hinting at online threats is a class five felony. *(I'd ignore that one, that's one dumbass law)*


What other "dumbass laws" do you ignore, (Felonies, at that)?

 "Dumbass laws" make up 90% of your job..........

I see now, some laws you'll ignore(even Felonies-wow), and others you'll enforce because you have to put food on the table, or I guess just because you personally agree with them.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Um, you're supposed to be enforcing laws(which you are unsure of, wtf?)-not worried about whether your dept. would be sued. 
> 
> I know how that process works, a past roommate was carted off in this manner(I didn't call, I wasn't even home). He got pretty drunk, and said some $#@! alluding to suicide(word of mouth, again, I wasn't there)...He killed himself anyway 2 weeks later, right after he got out of the psych ward. Knowing what I know now, I imagine it was because of the harrowing experience of being beaten and tazed in your own home, his experience in the ward, and the drugs they forced upon him. I'll admit he had issues(not suicidal that I ever saw), but I'm sure his experience hurt more than it helped.



I am sorry to hear about your friend, sadly if he was already suicidal there wasn't much anyone could do about it anyway.  Most people don't show they're suicidal until it's too late. My dad for example. Believe it or not, cops aren't walking law dictionaries, just because I can't name one off the top of my head doesn't mean one doesn't exist. 

As we all know, all states have different laws, here in VA it's a felony to threaten someone online, whether jokingly or not.  Wherever you are it could be different, again, just because I don't know of one doesn't mean it's not there. 

Again, I truly am sorry about your friend offing himself, suicide is a perm solution to a temporary problem.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I actually hadn't thought of that.  It is possible I am wrong in my sentiments regarding this.  And I didn't make any threats, I ran through a hypothetical to better elucidate my feelings.




I know, but, if you ever want to just remember, that some states have stupid laws like this.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> What other "dumbass laws" do you ignore, (Felonies, at that)?
> 
>  "Dumbass laws" make up 90% of your job..........
> 
> I see now, some laws you'll ignore(even Felonies-wow), and others you'll enforce because you have to put food on the table, or I guess just because you personally agree with them.



Are you trying to tell me, you being former LE, that you would arrest someone for making the online comment "Coastie, one day I'm gonna m---d-- you"? I mean come on, people ask me all the time whether or not I'd enforce dumbass laws, and this is one that I'd just laugh at.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Must Read Books

I'd recommend, 'Take the Rich off Welfare,' Mark Zepezaur
I'd recommend, 'Killing Hope: CIA Interventions Since WWII,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Democracy: America's Deadliest Export,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'Rogue State,' William Blum
I'd recommend, 'The Creature from Jekyll Island,' G. Edward Griffin
I'd recommend, 'Dark Alliance,' Gary Webb 
I'd recommend, 'Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras, and the Drug War' Celerino Castillo III [DEA agent]

----------


## coastie

> I am sorry to hear about your friend, sadly if he was already suicidal there wasn't much anyone could do about it anyway.  Most people don't show they're suicidal until it's too late. My dad for example. Believe it or not, cops aren't walking law dictionaries, just because I can't name one off the top of my head doesn't mean one doesn't exist. 
> 
> As we all know, all states have different laws, here in VA it's a felony to threaten someone online, whether jokingly or not.  Wherever you are it could be different, again, just because I don't know of one doesn't mean it's not there. 
> 
> Again, I truly am sorry about your friend offing himself, suicide is a perm solution to a temporary problem.


I, nor anyone else, recall him being suicidal before this experience. Again, he was drunk, and to this day it's still unclear what exactly he said. In a morbid twist, she is also no longer with us, car accident a year later...so we'll never really know for sure, but am 99% sure he wasn't suicidal, had no reason whatsoever to be(no recent break-up with girlfriend, didn't do any drugs, at all, was healthy, etc, etc).

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Must Read Books
> 
> I'd recommend, 'Take the Rich off Welfare,' Mark Zepezaur
> I'd recommend, 'Killing Hope: CIA Interventions Since WWII,' William Blum
> I'd recommend, 'Democracy: America's Deadliest Export,' William Blum
> I'd recommend, 'Rogue State,' William Blum
> I'd recommend, 'The Creature from Jekyll Island,' G. Edward Griffin
> I'd recommend, 'Dark Alliance,' Gary Webb 
> I'd recommend, 'Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras, and the Drug War' Celerino Castillo III [DEA agent]



Will read them, thanks for the suggestions.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I, nor anyone else, recall him being suicidal before this experience. Again, he was drunk, and to this day it's still unclear what exactly he said. In a morbid twist, she is also no longer with us, car accident a year later...so we'll never really know for sure, but am 99% sure he wasn't suicidal, had no reason whatsoever to be(no recent break-up with girlfriend, didn't do any drugs, at all, was healthy, etc, etc).



Same with my dad, nothing out of the ordinary until we got the call that he put a pistol to his head. Sometimes people hide their feelings so well that not even family and close friends know until it's too late.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Will read them, thanks for the suggestions.


You will not be able to put them down. Try one out and research independently. I really have no idea how I forgot Ron Paul but 'Liberty Defined' is a great start.

----------


## Expatriate

Posted this earlier but it kinda got buried in the debate:

Has your department gotten any of the Homeland Security grants and equipment I've heard about, and what do you and your fellow officers think of the increased militarization of police? Are you familiar with the Founding Fathers' concerns about standing armies and soldiers deployed among us, and are you or any of your coworkers concerned about this?

Do you ever refer to or think of people who are not cops as "civilians" or "citizens" as if you are something different even though police are supposed to be a civilian organization? 

Seems to me that the idea of police equipped like soldiers (SWAT) busting into private homes and confiscating property to be auctioned off later sounds an awful lot like what the Third Amendment was written to prohibit, and the Second Amendment was written to discourage or prevent. Again, this is mostly because of the drug war, but what are your views on that sort of thing?

----------


## coastie

> Are you trying to tell me, you being former LE, that you would arrest someone for making the online comment "Coastie, one day I'm gonna m---d-- you"? I mean come on, people ask me all the time whether or not I'd enforce dumbass laws, and this is one that I'd just laugh at.


But that's my whole point...when you find yourself picking and choosing laws to enforce-no matter how mundane in your eyes(or in reality), then it comes into question what you are really doing...

Believe me, I've tossed joints off of boats before when no other officers were looking, and have said things were just kosher when they really weren't - why ruin a boater or fisherman's lives over some "dumbass law"?. 

The FIRST time it happened, I began to question what I was doing. It got the point my last few years in, that I never cited anyone for anything "minor"(90% of the laws I was enforcing)-even violations I could have legally terminated your voyage over. That's when I knew, for sure-it was time to stop. I didn't re-enlist.

----------


## bolil

> Believe me, I've tossed joints off of boats before when no other officers were looking, and have said things were just kosher when they really weren't - why ruin a boater or fisherman's lives over some "dumbass law"?.


I try not to drink, but would buy you a round for that.  Coastie for admiral.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> But that's my whole point...when you find yourself picking and choosing laws to enforce-no matter how mundane in your eyes(or in reality), then it comes into question what you are really doing...
> 
> Believe me, I've tossed joints off of boats before when no other officers were looking, and have said things were just kosher when they really weren't - why ruin a boater or fisherman's lives over some "dumbass law"?. 
> 
> The FIRST time it happened, I began to question what I was doing. It got the point my last few years in, that I never cited anyone for anything "minor"(90% of the laws I was enforcing)-even violations I could have legally terminated your voyage over. That's when I knew, for sure-it was time to stop. I didn't re-enlist.



Luckily international waters and well the ocean in general isn't my jurisdiction. I would likely do the same thing you did. I'm not sure about CG whether you guys have camera's up your ass 24/7 or not. But it's kind of hard to just toss things with the dashcam recording my every move.

----------


## jclay2

> How come I don't get thanked for my "service"?
> 
> How come I don't get to board an airplane first?
> 
> I work at a very dangerous job (much more so than a cop) supplying a product that, without which, life as you know it would cease to exist, and you would, in all likelihood, die.
> 
> And I don't put a gun to your head for my pay or for kicks or as part of my job.


Thread Winner

----------


## coastie

> Luckily international waters and well the ocean in general isn't my jurisdiction. I would likely do the same thing you did. I'm not sure about CG whether you guys have camera's up your ass 24/7 or not. But it's kind of hard to just toss things with the dashcam recording my every move.


No cameras while I was in, not sure if that's changed in the last 3 years or not, but I highly doubt it. And the dashcam only records what's in front of the car.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Posted this earlier but it kinda got buried in the debate:
> 
> Has your department gotten any of the Homeland Security grants and equipment I've heard about, and what do you and your fellow officers think of the increased militarization of police? Are you familiar with the Founding Fathers' concerns about standing armies and soldiers deployed among us, and are you or any of your coworkers concerned about this?
> 
> Do you ever refer to or think of people who are not cops as "civilians" or "citizens" as if you are something different even though police are supposed to be a civilian organization? 
> 
> Seems to me that the idea of police equipped like soldiers (SWAT) busting into private homes and confiscating property to be auctioned off later sounds an awful lot like what the Third Amendment was written to prohibit, and the Second Amendment was written to discourage or prevent. Again, this is mostly because of the drug war, but what are your views on that sort of thing?




My apologies, I didn't see your post.

1. As far as I know we have not received any new gear from homeland security. Whether SWAT has or not, I don't know. I have a somewhat negative stance on cops being militarize, it seems like the FEDS are trying to turn us into the next Gestapo, I'm not the only officer that feels this way. But, as long as we keep the current police chief, everything should stay the way it is.  I believe that the founding fathers, were right to not want to have a standing army on American soil, they fought so that we weren't occupied, so why is it our own government is trying to occupy us? Again, a lot of my brothers are concerned about the steady decline in this once great nation.

2. I don't call them civilians, If I started referring to people as civilians it would mean I was militarized.  I do refer to them as citizens, but not out of disrespect or because I think I'm better, it's because they are a citizen of my community, just as I am a citizen of the community, just because I wear a badge doesn't automatically make me some kind of God to them, they in my eyes are my equal, I'm just there to uphold the law.

3. I don't believe anyone has the right to bust into your home, unless you have put someone in danger. Such as you kidnapped someone or you're holding hostages. OR if they have a warrant and they're 100% sure they have the right home and again, the person is a danger. Warrantless searches are imo, off limits. The constitution forbids it.

----------


## AGRP

> In four years I haven't crossed into that corrupt territory, as long as I can make it to 20, I'll be retiring. So far I'm living up to my standards, I don't believe I'll ever cross over.
> 
> What you have to realize is even with drugs legalized, unless they start selling it OTC at the pharmacy, *you're still going to have your territorial disputes between said bangers.* I'm all for the legalization, if they put it on store shelves like they did with alcohol after prohibition was lifted, then even the territorial wars would go away, because neither side would have anything to sell. I just wish, that our dumbass government could see this.


Not really. Theres no point in risking lives over what would become cheap substances once legalized.  Before prohibition, people who were too lazy to run to the store simply ordered it from a woolworths catalog and got it delivered buy a clean and friendly delivery service.  Ive never seen usps or fedex get in fire fights over turf.

----------


## bolil

> Not really. Theres no point in risking lives over what would become a cheap substances once legalized.  Before prohibition, people who were too lazy to run to the store simply ordered it from a woolworths catalog and got it delivered buy a clean and friendly delivery service. * Ive never seen usps or fedex get in fire fights over turf*.


Also access to courts for dispute settlement.

LOL.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No cameras while I was in, not sure if that's changed in the last 3 years or not, but I highly doubt it. And the dashcam only records what's in front of the car.



True, but the problem is we also have mics on us, they can hear everything we say. So even if I pulled a guy over and found pot, I'd have a hard time disposing of it, simply due to the fact that it would be hard for me to hide anything bigger than a joint in my hand. Don't get me wrong, I have pulled people where the vehicle smelled of pot and have let them go with a warning on speeding.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Must Read Books
> 
> I'd recommend, 'Take the Rich off Welfare,' Mark Zepezaur *[ETA: Please don't think this book is some kind of partisan bull$#@!, they speak on waste at every level of government- it does not matter your political views, check out this book- I've never seen a more extensive report]*
> I'd recommend, 'Killing Hope: CIA Interventions Since WWII,' William Blum *[again, $#@! political views, read about the coup in 1949 Syria, the coup in 1963 Iraq, the assassinations of governments over the world- a great book to get your foreign policy up to date]*
> I'd recommend, 'Democracy: America's Deadliest Export,' William Blum
> I'd recommend, 'Rogue State,' William Blum
> I'd recommend, 'The Creature from Jekyll Island,' G. Edward Griffin *[The 'Federal' Reserve? Need I say more?]*
> I'd recommend, 'Dark Alliance,' Gary Webb *[Iran-contra scandal with more sources than you could look up- seriously.]*
> I'd recommend, 'Powderburns: Cocaine, Contras, and the Drug War' Celerino Castillo III *[DEA agent telling his tales of massive cocaine shipments being loaded while told to remain quiet? Research is the key.]*


I could not recommend enough.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Not really. Theres no point in risking lives over what would become cheap substances once legalized.  Before prohibition, people who were too lazy to run to the store simply ordered it from a woolworths catalog and got it delivered buy a clean and friendly delivery service.  Ive never seen usps or fedex get in fire fights over turf.



Perhaps, looking at it in that perspective, if there were no drugs being peddled on the corners and no need for the bangers to be out, then, the territory wars would stop. The sad thing is, that's all it would take to get rid of bangers. Hell, maybe the little dumbasses would go back to school then.

----------


## coastie

> True, but the problem is we also have mics on us, they can hear everything we say. So even if I pulled a guy over and found pot, I'd have a hard time disposing of it, simply due to the fact that it would be hard for me to hide anything bigger than a joint in my hand. *Don't get me wrong, I have pulled people where the vehicle smelled of pot and have let them go with a warning on speeding.*


You have now lifted yourself .0001 points in my eyes. 

I still think you should find another line of work. You'll be wanting one soon if you read all of the books others linked here, trust me. I did.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I could not recommend enough.



I will def check them out. Will prob order them from amazon, for the kindle fire. That way during my days off, I can check them out.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You have now lifted yourself .0001 points in my eyes. 
> 
> I still think you should find another line of work. You'll be wanting one soon if you read all of the books others linked here, trust me. I did.




As soon as the economy picks back up, I really do plan to get out of this line of work. Sad thing is what good is a degree if no one wants to hire.... which is why I also joined the force.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I will def check them out. Will prob order them from amazon, for the kindle fire. That way during my days off, I can check them out.


I really hope you do. And I mean that with all due respect.

----------


## bolil

> As soon as the economy picks back up, I really do plan to get out of this line of work. Sad thing is what good is a degree if no one wants to hire.... which is why I also joined the force.


So much for growing up wanting to protect your community.  I am afraid I doubt your veracity.  In other words, I don't think your a cop.  Whats your angle here?

----------


## PursuePeace

Virginia is one giant speed trap.
Do you make notes on people that say, for instance, something like.. "NEVER let this person off with a warning. We hate her. Give her all of the tickets you possibly can."
Inquiring minds want to know.

----------


## TheTexan

Also does the blue line bumper sticker do any good in avoiding tickets

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So much for growing up wanting to protect your community.  I am afraid I doubt your veracity.  In other words, I don't think your a cop.  Whats your angle here?



No, I do want to protect my community, I grow up wanting to be a cop either..... I wanted to be a Dallas Cowboys player... But anyway, it doesn't matter what you believe, I know the truth. I became a cop, because my degree in business administration was getting me no where -- kind of hard to get a job in the business world when you're fresh out of college and know nothing. 

I also had a 3 year old at the time, that I refused to see homeless. So you wanted my reason, there it is. My family is my reasons.

----------


## bolil

"The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. "

Suddenly its about the economy.

Nope, bull$#@!.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Virginia is one giant speed trap.
> Do you make notes on people that say, for instance, something like.. "NEVER let this person off with a warning. We hate her. Give her all of the tickets you possibly can."
> Inquiring minds want to know.



To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once. 

As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> "The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. "
> 
> Suddenly its about the economy.
> 
> Nope, bull$#@!.



You obviously have no idea how dangerous my job truly is. And did you not read what I said back in  one of my posts, the answer was I have a kid to take care of. And yes, like most cops I do wish to make a difference. But, like most, we don't do this job because it's fun. We do it to feed our families. I don't think there is a cop out there that wants to worry about being gunned down, every day of his career. 

Again, believe what you want. I know what my profession is.


You really should stop reading so hard into things that aren't there. You're making a fool of yourself.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once. 
> 
> As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. *You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell..*. you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.


We all already know that.

Please inform yourself on the bigger picture.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> We all already know that.
> 
> Please inform yourself on the bigger picture.



If he's asking whether or not I'd let one of my psudo-brothers off because he has a badge, no. I wouldn't believe it or not we're not all corrupt.

----------


## Expatriate

> To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once. 
> 
> As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a *get out of jail free card*. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.


I made a thread about those back when I found out about them. I was pretty pissed.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-of-Cops/page6

----------


## TheTexan

> As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.


I thought you said corruption was only at the highest levels

----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## kcchiefs6465

NYC is what made the big news though, ABC if I recall correctly?

No one is against you as a person. [at least, I'm not] We aren't your uninformed citizenry either.

I really want you to read up on what I've mentioned,  and to make a judgement based on your experiences.

----------


## Professor8000

For a while there, I was considering joining the police. Outside of personal protection, private security isn't exactly a glamorous, or decently paying job, so it was a natural consideration for me. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that a great deal of the things that I would be required to do to continue drawing a paycheck would be violations of not only the Non-Aggression Principle, but also my own morality. While I understand the OP's position, I do not believe that the excuse of "just following orders" should be tolerated by anyone violating the Non-Aggression Principle. I include members of the Military as well. The only member of the military I give a free pass to is Bradley Manning, but only because he actually did something to try and stop the government. I will reserve my praise for those who actively subvert the government.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I thought you said corruption was only at the highest levels




Considering I can't get any yet, and AFAIK officers lower than the rank of SGT can't get them, then yea, I'd say corruption is only at the highest level. I think you can only use it for speeding anyway, anything else and it's null. 



KC posted a pic of what one looks like.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> For a while there, I was considering joining the police. Outside of personal protection, private security isn't exactly a glamorous, or decently paying job, so it was a natural consideration for me. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that a great deal of the things that I would be required to do to continue drawing a paycheck would be violations of not only the Non-Aggression Principle, but also my own morality. While I understand the OP's position, I do not believe that the excuse of "just following orders" should be tolerated by anyone violating the Non-Aggression Principle. I include members of the Military as well. The only member of the military I give a free pass to is Bradley Manning, but only because he actually did something to try and stop the government. I will reserve my praise for those who actively subvert the government.




It's not even a decent paying job, not with how dangerous it is. But, it keeps my kid warm and fed. 

I salute Private Manning, he knew full well what would happen and he still leaked the documents. He's a patriot.

----------


## SL89

First off, I would like to thank 5-0 for volunteering for this ass chewing and I give kudos for him remaining calm. Too, calm IMHO. 

I believe that City Cops and State Cops and the FBI are unconstitutional. And by their very nature..are anti-liberty. They are appointed bureaucratic nightmares. I applaud you if you are a 'good' cop. Although some things you said were troubling. You may have a chief that seems cool but, the very position he is in, is anti-citizen and he is beholden to the politics of where he is at. You are lucky.

The Sheriff on the other hand is a constitutionally authorized function, as they are directly elected by the county citizens. If the citizens want to *elect* a law body, so be it. They are not appointed.

A few points/questions. 
1) You have NO legal authority to protect me from myself, despite what you have been taught. Constitution 101. As long as I am not directly infringing on someone else's rights...piss off. If you think my suicide 'might' endanger others, keep the others away from me. I don't need saving.

2) You cannot entertain the idea that an anonymous tip is an excuse to apprehend anyone, unless they are already wanted for a violent crime. PERIOD. 

3) In situations where it gets heated and an officer strikes an innocent because his pride was hurt, you have the OBLIGATION to arrest your fellow officer, in public, on the spot. This 'brotherhood cult' is out of control. 

4) I am not sure of the statistic but I will be corrected if wrong. The majority of police abuses that come to light, end with paid suspension, forced retirement with pay and/or 90% get to go back to work like nothing happened. After destroying a family. You cannot defend that...it is not possible.

5) You want trust from the public? Then get rid of the revenuers and the power hungry pigs, who's egos, have hurt us beyond repair.

6) If an officer shows up at my house flaunting his power, without a lawful warrant, he will be shot. It is legal in more places than you think. This is not a threat but, y'all brought this hell fire on yourselves.

7) You need to evaluate your position. It seems to me that the law is first, rights second. And petty law, not the constitution. If I were a cop it would be, how do I protect others rights and where does the perp fit into that.

8) Preemptive action is NOT law enforcement, it is downright illegal. Besides, you should be rights protectors not, revenuers// cough/// law enforcement.



I have had no really bad experiences with the lawless in blue, just a few arrogant punks that wasted my time.

I have dealt with the Sheriff though, he is one of the ones that refuses to comply with DC mandates.  And their number one, on their mission statement is to protect rights not, arrest lawbreakers.

----------


## PursuePeace

> To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once.


No, not a personal vendetta notebook.. I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of notes showing up next to a person's name when you run their license. Like notes a doctor makes in a patient's chart. 

I'm convinced something like this is happening:








"Please.... no more."

----------


## TheTexan

> Considering I can't get any yet, and AFAIK officers lower than the rank of SGT can't get them, then yea, I'd say corruption is only at the highest level. I think you can only use it for speeding anyway, anything else and it's null. 
> 
> 
> 
> KC posted a pic of what one looks like.


Here's a detective one..

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No, not a personal vendetta notebook.. I was thinking more along the lines of some sort of notes showing up next to a person's name when you run their license. Like notes a doctor makes in a patient's chart. 
> 
> I'm convinced something like this is happening:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh yea, we leave personal notes, but nothing like that. If we pull someone who pops as a well known felon and likely to be armed, we like to know about it. As far as petty stuff like give this person as many tickets as possible, I've never seen anything like it. I wont say it's not there, but, I've never seen it.

----------


## TheTexan

Here's one for officers

----------


## sailingaway

I think most police are good people who took the job for good reasons.  Right now I'm at a new low because of the Dorner case, I just think after they shot up ONE truck that looked nothing like his with people who looked nothing like him in it, they might have been more careful and not shoot up two more that weren't the same color with people in them who weren't even the same color. the idea that they were going for an arrest was a complete non starter, but civilians seemed very disposable, as well.

But I know that isn't most, it is just 'those'.  I'm just still shocked by it.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Here's a detective one..



I think Detectives are just above SGT, when it comes to rank. I still have two years before I can even qualify for SGT consideration. Not that I have any need for a get out of jail free card.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> If he's asking whether or not I'd let one of my psudo-brothers off because he has a badge, no. I wouldn't believe it or not we're not all corrupt.


No, I don't believe he is. I'd assume he's more saying that there has been implicit help in insuring the drug trade [cocaine and heroin] is uninterupted. [with more evidence than has been used to convict most anyone I'd add] Check it out for yourself, Norwin Meneses? Why was his brother released from where, Ecuador? DEA contacts? I must be confused. Please refute me, I am a little off track I think. I forgot about Ollie North's pardon... 

I forgot Bill Clinton's pardons. I can only remember so much. I really want you to take a week, read, and repudiate what I'm saying. I haven't read anything about it in five or so years and I very well might be wrong. I just want you to read the evidence, and tell me as much. Respectfully.

ETA: I very well might be wrong on the locations. [especially where Meneses's family was relieved of any DEA charges- Puerto Rico I believe, and Oakland, CA I believe, but there was a country he was released from with DEA help- South American- [I think Ecuador, if someone knows more about this than I?] Any help from someone familiar with what I'm referring to is a plus rep.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Here's one for officers



I feel so left out... I should have joined Belleville PD... jk, like I said, I have no need, my son is 7, he wont be driving for a while and he knows I'll kick his ass if he gets in trouble.


@sailing I have no idea what the LAPD was thinking, the way they went after him though, it does tell me that he had a lot of dirt on officers there, that they didn't want to get out. LAPD are corrupt.

----------


## cjm

> Oh yea, we leave personal notes, but nothing like that. If we pull someone who pops as a well known felon and likely to be armed, we like to know about it. As far as petty stuff like give this person as many tickets as possible, I've never seen anything like it. I wont say it's not there, but, I've never seen it.


Do your computers identify drivers who are CHP holders?

----------


## TaftFan

Have you heard of OathKeepers? 

Highly recommend looking it up.

I am a big fan of cops shows myself, and generally have a positive view towards cops, but I recognize there is a ton of abuse and also bad laws created by state governments.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> First off, I would like to thank 5-0 for volunteering for this ass chewing and I give kudos for him remaining calm. Too, calm IMHO. 
> 
> I believe that City Cops and State Cops and the FBI are unconstitutional. And by their very nature..are anti-liberty. They are appointed bureaucratic nightmares. I applaud you if you are a 'good' cop. Although some things you said were troubling. You may have a chief that seems cool but, the very position he is in, is anti-citizen and he is beholden to the politics of where he is at. You are lucky.
> 
> The Sheriff on the other hand is a constitutionally authorized function, as they are directly elected by the county citizens. If the citizens want to *elect* a law body, so be it. They are not appointed.
> 
> A few points/questions. 
> 1) You have NO legal authority to protect me from myself, despite what you have been taught. Constitution 101. As long as I am not directly infringing on someone else's rights...piss off. If you think my suicide 'might' endanger others, keep the others away from me. I don't need saving.
> 
> ...




1. As much as I wish, I could agree with you, I can't. I know I'm under no federal mandate to protect you, but under state law, I have to. You know the whole serve and protect oath. To be honest, if someone wants to kill themselves. what can I do to change it? Taking them off to the nut hut isn't going to change the fact that they want to die.

2. Sadly, you'd be wrong again on that. Since most people love to get lawyers and sue the hell out of the cities, if we receive tips that someone is a danger to themselves, we have to respond or else we get sued for it. When the city gets sued, they have to lay off, to be honest officers have other things that they could be doing, like taking care of real criminals, especially if following up on said tip ends up being bs.

3. I agree, luckily I have never witnessed it. The officers I work with don't behave the way the NY cops do.

4. You're wrong, it's around 60%, most abuses reported directly to the chief of police especially if you have one like ours, is instantly dealt with, if the officer has had issues in the past, or gotten any other demerits he is punished with unpaid suspension and if he screws up a third time he is fired. If there is a weapon discharge and a suspect is killed, all information is sent to IA, the officer is placed on desk duty or paid suspension then, when IA finishes their investigation if it was justified, the officer if fully reinstated, if not, the officer is suspended without pay until the DA decides what he wants to do. Cops can't be fired due to unions, unless it is 100% justifiable.

5. You make it sound so easy, if it was that easy do you think that any of them would still be around? Finding damn good cops is harder than you think, sadly sometimes a few bad apples make their way through the academy.

6. It might be lawful, but be aware of the revenge that is sure to take place, you have some that wont care but some that will and they'll say you pulled a gun on them, even if you didn't and they had to plant one. Personally it's something that I never like to do and that is flaunt my authority if I can be respectful, I ask you do the same.

7. I'm not following you here, didn't I say in my post that most of us, such as myself will not do anything to trample on your rights?

8. Again, I'm not following you here, what exactly do you mean, what preemptive action are you referring to?


Our police chief and our sheriff are exactly the same, pretty much. They both don't care much for DC's bull$#@!.

As for why I'm calm, It's probably the fact that I knew what would happen when I posted, why get mad over it? It's a message board, besides I get called worse almost on a daily basis lol.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Do your computers identify drivers who are CHP holders?



Yes, which is why whenever I pull someone who has a CCW. I'll ask them if they're carrying their weapon today, it's mainly for my protection but 90% of the time it's to strike up a conversation. Lets face it no one likes to be pulled and if I can put someone at ease, they're less likely to get irate about it. Every single CCW holder I have ever pulled over has turned out to be awesome.

----------


## cjm

> Yes, which is why whenever I pull someone who has a CCW. I'll ask them if they're carrying their weapon today, it's mainly for my protection but 90% of the time it's to strike up a conversation. Lets face it no one likes to be pulled and if I can put someone at ease, they're less likely to get irate about it. Every single CCW holder I have ever pulled over has turned out to be awesome.


And if the response is "yes," do you confiscate the weapon for the duration of the traffic stop?  I have heard of that happening down where you are.

----------


## Aurave

> Now, I know that the word police officer doesn't sit well with most people here. I know that a lot of cops have given you guys a bad taste in your mouth; especially with all the reports of police brutally beating inmates and going around killing dogs to name a few.
> 
> I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. 
> 
> In those four years, I have seen pretty much every horror you can think of, child pornography in the hands of those sworn to protect this country, members of the military. I have seen gang bangers dead in the middle of the street, brain matter on the side-walk where they were gunned down. I have seen women beaten so badly by their significant others and not wanting to press charges, that it sickened me. I have even seen my fair share of suicides, which are some of the worse things to ever witness. 
> 
> I have arrested quite a few people, I have helped a woman give birth (I don't know how doctors do this), I have taken many many pedophiles off the streets, not once have I asked for praise or anything like that, I saw it as doing my job. In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. I have also never killed anyone's dog, whether it was a suspect's dog or just a regular family dog that came running to me, when I went out to check out a domestic disturbance. I have had hostile dogs try to attack me, but, a squirt of pepper spray took care of that. I have even saved a suspects life after they had a heart attack on me, while I was in the process of cuffing them. 
> 
> I have received various awards over the years from the chief, again not to be a glory hound or anything like that, but to do what I set out to do, and that was protect people that couldn't protect themselves as well as protect my city. I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two $#@!s about your rights. But, they are few and far between. Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our fellow officers behaviors. I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that, that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less. 
> ...


You see it's not that we think all cops are bad. We know precisely that they are normal people. That is why we don't like them, because we know they are just normal people, given power to all too often do whatever the hell they want.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> And if the response is "yes," do you confiscate the weapon for the duration of the traffic stop?  I have heard of that happening down where you are.




Nope, that would be against the constitution. Only thing I am worried about is whether it's loaded, but, as I said most gun owners are law abiding citizens, so I have no need to disarm them. The only time I would take their weapon from them is if I was placing them under arrest. And when they're released they get that right back. Again, I use it to strike up a conversation. I had to arrest one guy, because he had a bench warrant that was issued in his name that the clerk of the court messed up on, he got it straight and received his firearm back. 

He understood what had happened, I explained it to him, but due to procedure I had to do it. I have heard about some cops asking for the firearm, I'm not sure why they ask for it, as long as no one is being belligerent there's no need to take it.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You see it's not that we think all cops are bad. We know precisely that they are normal people. That is why we don't like them, because we know they are just normal people, given power to all too often do whatever the hell they want.



We all know the saying...

*Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely*

----------


## Expatriate

> Yes, which is why whenever I pull someone who has a CCW. I'll ask them if they're carrying their weapon today, it's mainly for my protection but 90% of the time it's to strike up a conversation. Lets face it no one likes to be pulled and if I can put someone at ease, they're less likely to get irate about it. Every single CCW holder I have ever pulled over has turned out to be awesome.


Well that's a good reason for everyone to push for Constitutional Carry in their state. This guy may not freak out but I think we all have heard of cops who would not be the type you would want approaching you from behind knowing you have a permit to carry a lethal weapon.

Just imagine... "He was driving erratically, I suspected he was drunk and when I ran his plates saw he had a carry permit, so when I approached the vehicle I tasered him for my own protection" - Would probably hold up in court.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Well that's a good reason for everyone to push for Constitutional Carry in their state. This guy may not freak out but I think we all have heard of cops who would not be the type you would want approaching you from behind knowing you have a permit to carry a lethal weapon.
> 
> Just imagine... "He was driving erratically, I suspected he was drunk and when I ran his plates saw he had a carry permit, so when I approached the vehicle I tasered him for my own protection" - Would probably hold up in court.



The sad fact is, you're probably right. I dunno maybe we're more constitutionally minded in Virginia, or maybe it's just me. But, as long as I have no reason to fear for my life, even if you do have a CCW, I'm not going to try and gun grab you. Wish that all cops thought like this, maybe, just maybe we'd have less videos showing cops behaving in the worst way.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> You see it's not that we think all cops are bad. We know precisely that they are normal people. That is why we don't like them, because we know they are just normal people, given power to all too often do whatever the hell they want.


+rep

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Nope, that would be against the constitution. Only thing I am worried about is whether it's loaded, but, as I said most gun owners are law abiding citizens, so I have no need to disarm them. The only time I would take their weapon from them is if I was placing them under arrest. And when they're released they get that right back. Again, I use it to strike up a conversation. I had to arrest one guy, because he had a bench warrant that was issued in his name that the clerk of the court messed up on, he got it straight and received his firearm back. 
> 
> He understood what had happened, I explained it to him, but due to procedure I had to do it. I have heard about some cops asking for the firearm, I'm not sure why they ask for it, as long as no one is being belligerent there's no need to take it.


A favorite of mine.




A very exceptional case of a law enforcement officer. In case I may be considered as biased...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Literally, I smiled when the above police officer said you are not detained after checking the weapon for it's functionality. Goddamn, great job.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> A favorite of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A very exceptional case of a law enforcement officer. In case I may be considered as biased...



This is how all things like this need to be handled. This officer knew the man had a right to do this and after confirming it wasn't a fully automatic, gave it back. If only all things went this way. 

I do want to let you guys in on another secret, if you're stopped and you're carrying your weapon open carry, a police officer cannot ask you if it's registered. That is against the law. Which is why this officer didn't ask to see any licenses for this man's firearms.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Literally, I smiled when the above police officer said you are not detained after checking the weapon for it's functionality. Goddamn, great job.




It makes me proud to see videos like this.

----------


## SL89

> 1. As much as I wish, I could agree with you, I can't. I know I'm under no federal mandate to protect you, but under state law, I have to. You know the whole serve and protect oath. To be honest, if someone wants to kill themselves. what can I do to change it? Taking them off to the nut hut isn't going to change the fact that they want to die.
> 
> 2. Sadly, you'd be wrong again on that. Since most people love to get lawyers and sue the hell out of the cities, if we receive tips that someone is a danger to themselves, we have to respond or else we get sued for it. When the city gets sued, they have to lay off, to be honest officers have other things that they could be doing, like taking care of real criminals, especially if following up on said tip ends up being bs.
> 
> 3. I agree, luckily I have never witnessed it. The officers I work with don't behave the way the NY cops do.
> 
> 4. You're wrong, it's around 60%, most abuses reported directly to the chief of police especially if you have one like ours, is instantly dealt with, if the officer has had issues in the past, or gotten any other demerits he is punished with unpaid suspension and if he screws up a third time he is fired. If there is a weapon discharge and a suspect is killed, all information is sent to IA, the officer is placed on desk duty or paid suspension then, when IA finishes their investigation if it was justified, the officer if fully reinstated, if not, the officer is suspended without pay until the DA decides what he wants to do. Cops can't be fired due to unions, unless it is 100% justifiable.
> 
> 5. You make it sound so easy, if it was that easy do you think that any of them would still be around? Finding damn good cops is harder than you think, sadly sometimes a few bad apples make their way through the academy.
> ...



1) You are wrong. I don't care what State or town you are in. I have unlimited rights as long as they don't impede on the rights of another. It is illegal for you to stop my suicide...Constitution......Only if I pose no threat to another and that has to be apparent. But, hey, This protect and serve stuff, is not real. Heck, you are obligated, under law,to use any evidence against me. Even Miranda doesn't allow you to use evidence "in support".  Everything is to be used to get a conviction from the DA. Guilty from the scene until I get to court and have a lawyer. So much for innocent until proven.... This happens for misdemeanors all the time. Catch a person without proof of insurance...guilty! You enforce 'laws' that are really not laws at all. 

2) Well, City Police are not authorized legally, so this would not apply if the cities obeyed the law.  Maybe you all should be arresting lawyers?? and protecting peoples rights, after all Rights trump the law especially law that it outside of the scope of the Constitution.. Rights are the law. 

3)I am so glad. I would like to know what state you are in. 

4)My stats stand corrected. I based them off of the reports about Chicago, NY, etc. But, you mentioned unions. DANGER ZONE! Protect our own and serve. So you reiterated an earlier point of mine. The brotherhood of cops. If the public has no recourse outside of civil litigation....Cops go free. (Most people can't afford lawyers as you know)

5) Straw man. Lots of good people could and would be cops if it was...legal. hehe. Yep, opened a can right there.

6) I know the "legal" law around here, I drink coffee with them and they have helped me when my kid ran away.They are not threatened by me. But, they are constitutionalist's. Might be fringe to you and the Feds but, not to us, not here.

7) This is a hard one for me. Your job is by its very nature is illegal. The city has no Constitutional right to have a police force. That said... I meant, you follow the law as written before you ensure someones rights. Simple really. You are a good cop, we thank you and get that. Hell, I would buy you a beer any day. But, the question is....Where do you draw the line between the rights of a sovereign individual juxtaposed against the laws of some town or state or even federal?   Under the Constitution you are under NO obligation to enforce an unjust law. Oh wait, yes you are, you are in an appointed position and are equivalent to a private cop. Bad legal place to be, especially when people are waking up. BTW. Cities have insurance...Being sued is a mute point. I haven't seen a cop get fired yet, because a city was sued. The go on leave and it goes away.

8) Preemption: Another tough one. Law enforcement has no right to apprehend, harass, question someone on a rumor, here say or a hunch. Not without a warrant. You can't say "So and so said this" and then infringe on my rights. You can give me a summons. Despite what happens on the street, I am still innocent until proven guilty. Once you apprehend me and are under code of law to use anything I say against me...I am presumed guilty. And it is very expensive to get out of. (I could be arrested on a whim..a hunch and it would render my family homeless if I fought the charge)


No, your police chief and the Sheriff are not the same. One is legally authorized and one is not. But, I am glad they hold similar views. 


Back to point one. I don't need protection, nor do my kids. What is this "holier than thou" complex with law enforcement?

----------


## jcannon98188

> Depends on what the hear say is. When we get reports of someone wanting to do bodily harm to themselves then we have to take it serious. Because there is always that what-if factor. You may not want to believe it, but, that cop had your best interest in mind. You have to look at it from his perspective, is the threat this girl said you made legit, if so, does he ignore it and risk losing his lively hood because he failed to do what he swore to do and that was protect the innocent, or does he do what he did and possibly saved a life, no matter how much he became hated for it? I'm not just looking at this from a cops perspective either.


The President all all of Congress (except for our liberty folks) are planning to commit suicide. Please respond and arrest them. Thank you.

----------


## jcannon98188

> The sad fact is, you're probably right. I dunno maybe we're more constitutionally minded in Virginia, or maybe it's just me. But, as long as I have no reason to fear for my life, even if you do have a CCW, I'm not going to try and gun grab you. Wish that all cops thought like this, maybe, just maybe we'd have less videos showing cops behaving in the worst way.


Like this cop feared for his life?


And the video of his "backup"

----------


## cjm

> I do want to let you guys in on another secret, if you're stopped and you're carrying your weapon open carry, *a police officer cannot ask you if it's registered*. That is against the law. Which is why this officer didn't ask to see any licenses for this man's firearms.


I wouldn't even understand that question ("is it registered?").  The firearm in the video is a semi-auto.  Who registers semi-autos?

----------


## jcannon98188

> I do want to let you guys in on another secret, if you're stopped and you're carrying your weapon open carry, a police officer cannot ask you if it's registered. That is against the law. Which is why this officer didn't ask to see any licenses for this man's firearms.


So question, if a person defends themselves using a unregistered weapon that they were open carrying, will they go to jail for it?

Edit: Defends themselves against an attacker, not defend themselves against a cop.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> 1) You are wrong. I don't care what State or town you are in. I have unlimited rights as long as they don't impede on the rights of another. It is illegal for you to stop my suicide...Constitution......Only if I pose no threat to another and that has to be apparent. But, hey, This protect and serve stuff, is not real. Heck, you are obligated, under law,to use any evidence against me. Even Miranda doesn't allow you to use evidence "in support".  Everything is to be used to get a conviction from the DA. Guilty from the scene until I get to court and have a lawyer. So much for innocent until proven.... This happens for misdemeanors all the time. Catch a person without proof of insurance...guilty! You enforce 'laws' that are really not laws at all. 
> 
> 2) Well, City Police are not authorized legally, so this would not apply if the cities obeyed the law.  Maybe you all should be arresting lawyers?? and protecting peoples rights, after all Rights trump the lawm especially law that it outside of the scope of the Constitution.. Rights are the law. 
> 
> 3)I am so glad. I would like to know what state you are in. 
> 
> 4)My stats stand corrected. I based them off of the reports about Chicago, NY, etc. But, you mentioned unions. DANGER ZONE! Protect our own and serve. So you reiterated an earlier point of mine. The brotherhood of cops. If the public has no recourse outside of civil litigation....Cops go free. (Most people can't afford lawyers as you know)
> 
> 5) Straw man. Lots of good people could and would be cops if it was...legal. hehe. Yep, opened a can right there.
> ...



1. Again, I wish this was correct, but some dumbass who sued screwed it up for everyone. Personally, I wish I didn't have to answer calls like this, most turn out to be someone just looking for attention, sort of like Kim Jong Un is right now. You have no idea how much I agree with you but city laws state I have to do this, cause if they get sued over something I do, I lose my job, in all honesty it's stupid.

2. The thing is, just like city police, the Sheriff's deputies are not voted in, the only one voted in is the Sheriff himself. He doesn't even hire his own deputies, the city takes care of that for him. If you want to get technical, the Sheriff Deputies are pretty much court bitches and jailers, that's the only purpose they serve here. It's the local PD that go out and do the hard stuff, so in a sense, we're their what's the word I'm looking for, henchmen. And even I have found it strange to have both a Sheriff's department and Police Department... Hell, the jail is right across the street from the precinct that I was assigned to. I was explained in academy that a municipality that has both a Sheriff's Office and Police Department that the Police Department handles all the dirty work. Trying to remember stuff from four years ago sucks.

3. Virginia

4. Yea, sadly I've seen a lot of terrible cops get reinstated because of the police union. They never did anything underhanded, it was just they were terrible at their job. There are a few cops right now that I think need to be fired, but, due to the umbrella of the union they stay on.

5. Thing is, we're trying to recruit now for the July 2013 academy, we have had 15 people post applications, the chief just extended the hiring process from the Feb 28th deadline until March 31st deadline. We'll be lucky if out of those 15, if that's all we get, 4 or 5 will make it through the academy. I'd much rather see like minded people come out of the academy than the cops you see in NY and NJ that beat the crap out of innocents for no reason.

6. I hope you didn't take what I initially wrote as a threat, I just know how some cops can be, especially after watching the video of that one cop killer that they beat so badly in custody, that his own family could barely recognize him.

7. Even if the state gave the city that power would you still consider it illegal? Considering the 10th amendment gives states the right to do what they want, that is when the government isn't butting in

8. The thing is, no one would apprehend you unless you were deemed to be a danger to yourself or others. That is a judgement call for officers to make, sometimes it's the right one, other times it's not. I remember reading a story about eight or nine years ago, where a police officer was fired after unlawfully discharging his weapon and striking an innocent bystander, the bystander sued for negligence and won. The union lost and the officer was out of work. So it does happen, it's just rare. 

By the state of Virginia which granted the city the power, he is legally authorized. But, again, he's one of the better police chiefs out there.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Like this cop feared for his life?


[That's a sad one. You don't even have to see it.]







Have to log in for the full video...




Point blank execution...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I wouldn't even understand that question ("is it registered?").  The firearm in the video is a semi-auto.  Who registers semi-autos?



Sorry, little sleep deprived, what I mean was if he comes up to you and asks if you have a license to carry. It's a trick question, since you don't need a license to open carry in most states.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So question, if a person defends themselves using a unregistered weapon that they were open carrying, will they go to jail for it?
> 
> Edit: Defends themselves against an attacker, not defend themselves against a cop.



Now this is actually at the discretion of the officer, if you defend yourself against an attack, once the responding officer gets there, tell them the whole story. The it's not likely that you will be charged with anything. The only time you would be charged is if you were a felon and you were in possession of the firearm.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Like this cop feared for his life?
> 
> 
> And the video of his "backup"




The suspect had a knife, do we have any videos showing what the suspect was doing, was he coming toward the officer with the knife? If he was then that officer had every right to protect himself, he didn't have to fire what sounded like 3 or 4 shots, but he did have the right to take down someone that was coming at him with a knife.

----------


## RabbitMan

Police brutality videos /= 300,000 corrupt, crazy police officers.  

Thank you for the dialogue and patience to respond to inquiries on the board Fivezeroes.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> [That's a sad one. You don't even have to see it.]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have to log in for the full video...
> ...



Why am I not surprised that most of these videos either involve LAPD, BART police, etc... $#@! like that never happens here.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> The suspect had a knife, do we have any videos showing what the suspect was doing, was he coming toward the officer with the knife? If he was then that officer had every right to protect himself, he didn't have to fire what sounded like 3 or 4 shots, but he did have the right to take down someone that was coming at him with a knife.


No he wasn't. From what I remember the suspect was deaf[?] Either deaf or didn't understand the commands. [maybe an Inuit or both, it's been a while] I've seen a good 20 or so men actually gunned down since that case. As I recall, the Seattle man's family got something like 1.2M for the *woodcarver's* death.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Police brutality videos /= 300,000 corrupt, crazy police officers.  
> 
> Thank you for the dialogue and patience to respond to inquiries on the board Fivezeroes.



Police officers are supposed to be open to questions, we're normal people just like everyone else.

----------


## cjm

> Sorry, little sleep deprived...


No problem.




> ...what I mean was if he comes up to you and asks if you have a license to carry. It's a trick question, since you don't need a license to open carry in most states.


Hmmm, I'm afraid I'm missing the trick.  The LEO is not allowed to ask me if I have a license to open carry when a license is not required, so he asks, "do you have a license?" and I say, "I don't need a license."  What's the trick?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No he wasn't. From what I remember the suspect was deaf[?] Either deaf or didn't understand the commands. [maybe an Inuit or both, it's been a while] I've seen a good 20 or so men actually gunned down since that case. As I recall, the Seattle man's family got something like 1.2M for the *woodcarver's* death.



I really wish that I could see the full video.  Why was a woodcarver carrying a knife around in broad daylight, that is what I don't get.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Why am I not surprised that most of these videos either involve LAPD, BART police, etc... $#@! like that never happens here.


And I hope you are equally unsurprised when people listen to men being burned out, gunned down, heads explode, 41 shots, that they don't necessarily like your profession. That's not to put words in anyone's mouth but look at things from an objective stand point. I've seen a man beat to death with a taser. [not tasered to death] What was the sentence, four years when there is video evidence? No other cops charged? [if I recall] Listen to this mentally retarded man scream for his father and let me know what you think... It isn't against the police. The $#@! most have seen is unheard of.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I really wish that I could see the full video.  Why was a woodcarver carrying a knife around in broad daylight, that is what I don't get.


He was carving wood. I have seen it. When it happened. He didn't understand the commands. If I recall correctly, the man was deaf.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, I'm afraid I'm missing the trick.  The LEO is not allowed to ask me if I have a license to open carry when a license is not required, so he asks, "do you have a license?" and I say, "I don't need a license."  What's the trick?



If your state is anything like mine, if you're open carrying and a LEO asks you whether you have a license to carry and it's not loaded, all you have to respond with is according to the laws of this state, you are not allowed to ask me that. (make sure it's like that in your state) most states do not require a registration for your firearm as long as you don't conceal it. And no cop is allowed to ask you otherwise. If the officer keeps pressing the matter, provide said license / registration and then get their badge number and report it to the mayor if the police chief refuses to listen. 

Most LEO wont even bother you as long as your weapon isn't concealed. Again, I said most, you do have stupid ones out there.

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## kcchiefs6465

This man's screams still haunt me.

Kelly Thomas



I really think I could have been him, on a different day.

----------


## cjm

> Why am I not surprised that most of these videos either involve LAPD, BART police, etc... *$#@! like that never happens here*.


I wish that were true.  The lady that was shot through her car window in the church parking lot was in or around Culpeper.  Virginia has it too.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> He was carving wood. I have seen it. When it happened. He didn't understand the commands. If I recall correctly, the man was deaf.




Then the cop def over-reacted. Nothing about what you posted surprises me, LAPD and BART are all corrupt, we learned that from the Dorner execution. I understand how a lot of you feel about seeing videos like this, and know this it doesn't happen everywhere. It's a shame that good cops have to be lumped in with losers like that. Watching the BART police kill that one guy, was sickening. $#@! like this sickens all of us good cops too, you think we like having the stigma on our head or being stereotyped the way most people stereotype us, because of a few pieces of trash out there, that disgrace the badge.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

I want a clear answer, fivezeroes, should all men involved in the beating of Kelly Thomas face capital murder charges? I am sure you are aware in many states, those who are present during a felony where someone dies, are equally guilty under the respective State Constitutions and the court of law.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I wish that were true.  The lady that was shot through her car window in the church parking lot was in or around Culpeper.  Virginia has it too.


I'm no where close to culpepper... what was the circumstances on that one? What happened?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I want a clear answer, fivezeroes, should all men involved in the beating of Kelly Thomas face capital murder charges? I am sure you are aware in many states, those who are present during a felony where someone dies, are equally guilty under the respective State Constitutions and the court of law.



Guilty by association, hell yea. They should all receive the death penalty. Kelly Thomas done nothing wrong. He didn't deserve what these animals did, and yes his friends his pseudo-brothers, all need to go down with him, for not stopping what was going on.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Then the cop def over-reacted. Nothing about what you posted surprises me, LAPD and BART are all corrupt, we learned that from the Dorner execution. I understand how a lot of you feel about seeing videos like this, and know this it doesn't happen everywhere. It's a shame that good cops have to be lumped in with losers like that. Watching the BART police kill that one guy, was sickening. $#@! like this sickens all of us good cops too, you think we like having the stigma on our head or being stereotyped the way most people stereotype us, because of a few pieces of trash out there, that disgrace the badge.


Please answer the question of post 181 then. Do you believe all of the men around Kelly Thomas who watched him get beat to death, while screaming for his daddy, are accomplices and should be tried as much? Do you think four year is sufficient for tasering and then beating a man to death with said taser? How do you feel of those standing and watching? Are they not just as guilty under the rule of law, Sir?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Please answer the question of post 181 then. Do you believe all of the men around Kelly Thomas who watched him get beat to death, while screaming for his daddy, are accomplices and should be tried as much? Do you think four year is sufficient for tasering and then beating a man to death with said taser? How do you feel of those standing and watching? Are they not just as guilty under the rule of law, Sir?



Answered, you wont find me offering any kind of support for monsters that disgrace the badge.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Guilty by association, hell yea. They should all receive the death penalty. Kelly Thomas done nothing wrong. He didn't deserve what these animals did, and yes his friends his pseudo-brothers, all need to go down with him, for not stopping what was going on.


I apologize, I suppose you did answer. Why did the PBA of his respective city not condone this brutal murder? Why did no one [of that respective department, or in the country, as I recall] condone that murder?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I apologize, I suppose you did answer. Why did the PBA of his respective city not condone this brutal murder? Why did no one [of that respective department, or in the country, as I recall] condone that murder?


Is condone the word you're looking for or do you mean condemn? Because it's a good thing they didn't condone what that animal did... However, if they didn't condemn it and instead did condone what happened, then they're pieces of $#@! too. They're all disgraces to the badge.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Further, [and I honestly regretably forgot about this man] why did said cop only get 4 years? Beating a man with said issued taser seems extreme, even from an officer safety standpoint. Now I am not condoning _you_ for not speaking out against this. No one in America hardly cared, and they won't for the next, but to even consider a 4 year prison sentence for a man who visibly beat another man to death? And no accomplices? You could imagine how people $#@!ing feel..

----------


## cjm

> If your state is anything like mine,


It's exactly like yours.  See the location field under my user name.




> if you're open carrying and a LEO asks you whether you have a license to carry and it's not loaded, all you have to respond with is according to the laws of this state, you are not allowed to ask me that. (make sure it's like that in your state) most states do not require a registration for your firearm as long as you don't conceal it. And no cop is allowed to ask you otherwise. If the officer keeps pressing the matter, provide said license / registration and then get their badge number and report it to the mayor if the police chief refuses to listen. 
> 
> Most LEO wont even bother you as long as your weapon isn't concealed. Again, I said most, you do have stupid ones out there.


I'm sorry if I'm being a pest, but I still don't see the trick.  It would be a bit silly to carry an unloaded firearm, wouldn't it?  So if I'm open carrying, and the LEO asks if I have a license to carry and if the weapon is loaded, what's the downside of saying, "I don't need a license and yes, it's loaded."?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Further, [and I honestly regretably forgot about this man] why did said cop only get 4 years? Beating a man with said issued taser seems extreme, even from an officer safety standpoint. Now I am not condoning _you_ for not speaking out against this. No one in America hardly cared, and they won't for the next, but to even consider a 4 year prison sentence for a man who visibly beat another man to death? And no accomplices? You could imagine how people $#@!ing feel..




I truly wish I knew the answer to why some cops get off so easily. Murder is murder, I don't care if you're wearing a badge or not.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Is condone the word you're looking for or do you mean condemn? Because it's a good thing they didn't condone what that animal did... However, if they didn't condemn it and instead did condone what happened, then they're pieces of $#@! too. They're all disgraces to the badge.


I'm looking for condemn. Why didn't anyone speak out against it? From the department, from the PBA, nationally? 

I apologize for my misuse of words. McCain and Graham's treasonous asses have had me on a particularly early drunken morning.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> It's exactly like yours.  See the location field under my user name.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if I'm being a pest, but I still don't see the trick.  It would be a bit silly to carry an unloaded firearm, wouldn't it?  So if I'm open carrying, and the LEO asks if I have a license to carry and if the weapon is loaded, what's the downside of saying, "I don't need a license and yes, it's loaded."?



If I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going back 4 years ago, you can open carry a firearm as long as it's not loaded, but if it's loaded you must have your registration on you at all times. As long as you don't have a magazine in the gun, most cops wont bother you. The only time it's permissible to ask whether you're licensed is if a LEO suspects the weapon is loaded. With you having no magazine in the weapon, it's illegal for them to stop and ask, because it's against the 2nd and 3rd. Trying to remember stuff taught to you four years ago is a pain.

----------


## cjm

> I'm no where close to culpepper... what was the circumstances on that one? What happened?


Here you go.




> A little news from last week on this front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Citizen Wants 'Open Investigation' Into Officer-Involved Shooting Of Patricia Cook*
> 
> http://wusa9.com/news/article/204090...-Patricia-Cook
> 
> ...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I'm looking for condemn. Why didn't anyone speak out against it? From the department, from the PBA, nationally? 
> 
> I apologize for my misuse of words. McCain and Graham's treasonous asses have had me on a particularly early drunken morning.



Again, I wish that I could give you that answer. When I first read about it, it literally broke my heart. It reminded me of something that someone from one of the other cities PDs did to a handicapped woman, who would dance everyday on the street in front of a hardees, they tased her, causing her to have a heart attack, she passed away a week later. $#@! like that breaks my heart.

----------


## jcannon98188

> If I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going back 4 years ago, you can open carry a firearm as long as it's not loaded, but if it's loaded you must have your registration on you at all times. As long as you don't have a magazine in the gun, most cops wont bother you. The only time it's permissible to ask whether you're licensed is if a LEO suspects the weapon is loaded. With you having no magazine in the weapon, it's illegal for them to stop and ask, because it's against the 2nd and 3rd. Trying to remember stuff taught to you four years ago is a pain.


As a cop it is kind of your job to remember this stuff bro.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

I'm literally amazed. They cheer for grandma murderers. The judge laughs. I have never seen such blatant corruption. I mean, it's sickening, IDGAF if you are a police officer or not. Are you not sickend by these State Highway Patrolmen in Florida laughing and applauding the grandmother's death? After said officer sped to rocks being thrown and impacted her car? Where's the sensitivity? Where's the humanity? 

Give me a few minutes, I'll find that bull$#@!.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Here you go.



My god... if what is being said is true and he wasn't being dragged by the car, he had no right to shoot her.

----------


## devil21

When you arrest and/or testify against someone in court, you know your testimony to be true, and the defendant is found not guilty, how do you feel about it?  

Furthermore, how do you feel about a person you know to be guilty getting off?

Also, how do you feel about jury nullification?  How would you feel if a jury disagreed with you and said the law you charged with was unjust and acquitted?

(sorry if I repeated someone else, didn't read whole thread yet, wanted to ask question while I remembered it)

----------


## Fivezeroes

> As a cop it is kind of your job to remember this stuff bro.




It's 3am cut me some slack.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> When you arrest and/or testify against someone in court, you know your testimony to be true, and the defendant is found not guilty, how do you feel about it?  It's basically how do you feel about a person you know to be guilty getting off?



I feel that the justice system did its job, even if someone gets off. They are innocent until proven guilty. I may not agree with the outcome, but that is why we have the court system.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Again, I wish that I could give you that answer. When I first read about it, it literally broke my heart. It reminded me of something that someone from one of the other cities PDs did to a handicapped woman, who would dance everyday on the street in front of a hardees, they tased her, causing her to have a heart attack, she passed away a week later. $#@! like that breaks my heart.


I'm not doubting you have good intentions and are a good man. Understand that a lot of people follow these atrocities and it's affirmed again and again that police officers are above the law. I love the Oath Keepers. If you are not yet a member I'd encourage to please join. But this has been going on for a while, I'd definitely support any police officers who spoke out against it.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I'm literally amazed. They cheer for grandma murderers. The judge laughs. I have never seen such blatant corruption. I mean, it's sickening, IDGAF if you are a police officer or not. Are you not sickend by these State Highway Patrolmen in Florida laughing and applauding the grandmother's death? After said officer sped to rocks being thrown and impacted her car? Where's the sensitivity? Where's the humanity? 
> 
> Give me a few minutes, I'll find that bull$#@!.



It sickens me, as you can tell, I'm not one of this officers that is going to just agree with whatever these officers do. If one officer does something bad it further erodes the trust that non LEO have in us.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I'm literally amazed. They cheer for grandma murderers. The judge laughs. I have never seen such blatant corruption. I mean, it's sickening, IDGAF if you are a police officer or not. Are you not sickend by these State Highway Patrolmen in Florida laughing and applauding the grandmother's death? After said officer sped to rocks being thrown and impacted her car? Where's the sensitivity? Where's the humanity? 
> 
> Give me a few minutes, I'll find that bull$#@!.


Plus rep for anyone who saves me the time... it was about 2 weeks ago in Florida. I looked and can't find it. [blaming McCain again, lol]

----------


## devil21

> I feel that the justice system did its job, even if someone gets off. They are innocent until proven guilty. I may not agree with the outcome, but that is why we have the court system.


Thanks.  Good to hear.  I wonder if cops sometimes take out frustration about court outcomes on the next guy.  I added another question about jury nullification btw.

----------


## cjm

> If I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going back 4 years ago, you can open carry a firearm as long as it's not loaded, but if it's loaded you must have your registration on you at all times. As long as you don't have a magazine in the gun, most cops wont bother you. The only time it's permissible to ask whether you're licensed is if a LEO suspects the weapon is loaded. With you having no magazine in the weapon, it's illegal for them to stop and ask, because it's against the 2nd and 3rd. Trying to remember stuff taught to you four years ago is a pain.


No permit, registration, or documentation of any form is required to open carry a loaded handgun in Virginia.  Well, maybe proof of age (minimum age for OC is 18 here).  You must be really tired this evening, eh?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Thanks.  Good to hear.  I wonder if cops sometimes take out frustration about court outcomes on the next guy.  I added another question about jury nullification btw.



To answer your question, if the jury did that, again, it's the justice system at work. It may be flawed but I try not to question it. If they feel that an arrest I made was unlawful then I would respect that decision, as it's one of the reasons why our nation is so great. 

I've never taken my frustration out on the next guy when someone got off, what sense would that make, although, I'm quite sure it has happened.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No permit, registration, or documentation of any form is required to open carry a loaded handgun in Virginia.  Well, maybe proof of age (minimum age for OC is 18 here).  You must be really tired this evening, eh?



Haven't been able to sleep, my son is sick as hell, couple that with the fact that I just pulled 16 hrs, well you get the picture. I also wont pretend to be a walking law book, because even I didn't know that and I'm a cop. Not the age thing, the documentation if the weapon is loaded part.

----------


## Professor8000

My experience working in law enforcement is that good help is hard to come by. Finding competent people is next to impossible, and once you find someone competent, in corporate security, the person has to also not be a total jackass. This translates to months and months of unfilled positions. I have trained many an incompetent jackass, that I wouldn't trust to guard a parking lot, who later goes off to the police academy and goes to work at a police department making 2.5 times my pay. Then there are those jems who commit financial suicide and leave the force to join our ranks in private security because they are tired of the corruption in the force. Those guys are hard to keep around for long because they realize how valuable they actually are, and soon find higher pay. 
The employee pool breaks down like this: the bottom 25% are incompetent jackasses, the middle 50% are either incompetent or jackasses, and the top 25% are actually competent and personable. While I don't think that it is a direct comparison, there has to be some similarity between the private and public Law Enforcement employee pools. 
While I'm not going to join in on the busting of Fivezeros' balls, I will say this. If you stick around long enough, we'll make a halfway decent anarchist out of you in a few years.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Those who are anarchists may say...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> My experience working in law enforcement is that good help is hard to come by. Finding competent people is next to impossible, and once you find someone competent, in corporate security, the person has to also not be a total jackass. This translates to months and months of unfilled positions. I have trained many an incompetent jackass, that I wouldn't trust to guard a parking lot, who later goes off to the police academy and goes to work at a police department making 2.5 times my pay. Then there are those jems who commit financial suicide and leave the force to join our ranks in private security, because they are tired of the corruption in the force. Those guys are hard to keep around for long because they realize how valuable they actually are, and soon find higher pay. 
> The employee pool breaks down like this: the bottom 25% are incompetent jackasses, the middle 50% are either incompetent or jackasses, and the top 25% are actually competent and personable. While I don't think that it is a direct comparison, there has to be some similarity between the private and public Law Enforcement employee pools. 
> While I'm not going to join in on the busting of Fivezeros' balls, I will say this. If you stick around long enough, we'll make a halfway decent anarchist out of you in a few years.


I'm already a half decent anarchist. And you couldn't be more right, finding competent officers is hard to come by. Out of an academy class of 35, 15 may make it, out of those 15, 13 are going to be complete jackasses, that might last two to three years on the force. The other two are going to go on to become damn fine officers. If only we could clone the good ones.


BTW bust away, I'm having a blast doing this.

----------


## Professor8000

As an anarchist, I can say this. Once you start to question the morality of government action, the questions don't end until there are no exceptions to the rules.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> As an anarchist, I can say this. Once you start to question the morality of government action, the questions don't end until there are no exceptions to the rules.




I started questioning our governments morality years ago.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I'm already a half decent anarchist. And you couldn't be more right, finding competent officers is hard to come by. Out of an academy class of 35, 15 may make it, out of those 15, 13 are going to be complete jackasses, that might last two to three years on the force. The other two are going to go on to become damn fine officers. If only we could clone the good ones.
> 
> 
> BTW bust away, I'm having a blast doing this.


Hmm, I wonder how long the officer who beat Kelly Thomas to death was on the job?

I figured I had a little bit of a breakthrough moment but $#@! it.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Hmm, I wonder how long the officer who beat Kelly Thomas to death was on the job?
> 
> I figured I had a little bit of a breakthrough moment but $#@! it.



Wouldn't they say in the news articles how long he was on the force?

----------


## jcannon98188

They say the problem with police is that it requires a man strong enough to always do the right thing, but does nothing to make those men want the job (paraphrased)

----------


## Fivezeroes

> They say the problem with police is that it requires a man strong enough to always do the right thing, but does nothing to make those men want the job (paraphrased)



We have recruiters that go around looking for the right people, sadly, a lot of those people that they talk to simply don't want to be in such a dangerous profession.

----------


## Professor8000

I started on this quest 4 years ago. I was a fresh high school drop out during the summer of 2008 with not a job to be had in sight. It gave me plenty of time to browse the internet for 2 years. Then I got a job in security, and got paid to browse the internet. It was the best damn education that you can't even pay for.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I started on this quest 4 years ago. I was a fresh high school drop out during the summer of 2008 with not a job to be had in sight. It gave me plenty of time to browse the internet for 2 years. Then I got a job in security, and got paid to browse the internet. It was the best damn education that you can't even pay for.



Nothing wrong with that. 

Anyway, I'm off to bed, catch all of you guys sometime tomorrow. Thank god, I'm on my 4 day off stretch. Damn fun debating with all of ya, if you guys have any more questions don't hesitate to ask. If I can answer I will.

----------


## devil21

> To answer your question, if the jury did that, again, it's the justice system at work. It may be flawed but I try not to question it. If they feel that an arrest I made was unlawful then I would respect that decision, as it's one of the reasons why our nation is so great. 
> 
> I've never taken my frustration out on the next guy when someone got off, what sense would that make, although, I'm quite sure it has happened.


Keep up the good work.  Like Ron Paul is a great icon in a sea of snakes, you sound like a great example of a peace officer among a sea of snakes.  I hope you continue to work to ensure your coworkers stay honest and accountable.

----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## cjm

> Haven't been able to sleep, my son is sick as hell, couple that with the fact that I just pulled 16 hrs, well you get the picture. I also wont pretend to be a walking law book, because even I didn't know that and I'm a cop. Not the age thing, the documentation if the weapon is loaded part.


Well, I learned something today too.  Apparently in some localities there is a magazine capacity restriction (which is removed with a permit).  This might be what you were thinking of:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4




> § 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
> 
> It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and *is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition* or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public *in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.*
> 
> The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, *or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit* or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
> 
> The exemptions set forth in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.
> 
> (1991, c. 570; 1992, c. 790; 2003, c. 976; 2004, c. 995; 2005, c. 160; 2007, c. 813.)


So a firearm with greater than a 20 round magazine must be unloaded in several localities without a permit.  Heh, who knew? (I'm three hours from the nearest one of those listed localities)

EDIT:  If you get folks from outside your area who are unaware of this restriction (as most probably are), I think a warning would be fair.  This is pretty obscure stuff.  I'm pretty up on Virginia firearms laws and I had no idea about this until tonight.

----------


## Neil Desmond

> He's either a LT or a Captain one, I'm not sure what New York's uniforms look like as far as rank goes, but that right there is why he walked. Because of his bull$#@! rank. I told you, it's always political when $#@! like that happens. Had you done that to a cop, you would have served a mandatory 2 years for assault on a police officer.


The police officer in the white shirt was a lieutenant, and his name is Jonathan Josey.

I have some questions for you, but there are already 20 pages on this thread; so if you've already answered, the post # in the upper right will suffice.

1. Should we have laws that differ between cops and private citizens?  For example, if someone can get mandatory 2 years for assaulting a cop, then shouldn't a cop get the same for assaulting someone?

2. Have you researched this incident from that video for yourself?  Although he struck that woman I'm not sure it was intentional or not.  I briefly did some poking around online, and from what I found he was arrested, suspended, and eventually fired.  If it was unintentional, do you think he was wronged by being fired?  He was acquitted, not by a jury, but by a judge married to a woman who is a Philadelphia police officer; do you think he should have been tried by a jury, and do you think that the judge being married to a police officer is a conflict of interests?  There is an investigation being done by some entity (don't remember who or what it is exactly) into Josey's acquittal.

3. This is regarding your response, regardless of whether Josey actually assault her or accidentally struck her while attempting to do something else, it seems that what you're implying here is that the law enforcement system or model of having police departments is a failure.  Is that what you are saying?  Is there a remedy or solution for this or any other issue involving law enforcement being in effect above the law, in the situation for when it does happen?

4. Not only do I think there is a chronic problem with the existence of victimless crime and unconstitutional "laws", but I also question whether the existence of police departments (all of them) in this country is appropriate or not.  I think that law enforcement should probably only be done by an elected sheriff rather than career-based bureaucrats; people can still train at a police academy and get certification, but they cannot wear a badge and enforce laws in an "official" capacity until and unless directed by the sheriff (and maybe his or her deputies with the authorization to do so).  How do you feel about this?

----------


## devil21

First, I'd like to remind everyone to:




Everyone that posted on this thread, including me, just broke a cardinal rule.  Outside of internet bs, I have pledged to myself for my own safety to never talk to police ever.  I am from VA and it's a friggin police state, regardless of how good this officer's responses are.

Any response the officer gave in this thread regarding actual legal issues such as open carrying is wrong, unless it was simply "don't talk to police."  I never saw a post from the officer saying not to talk to the police.  Most of the people he convicted talked.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

00000,

  I've only read half the thread, but you ruined most of the puzzle in post #85 

I had gotten it down to 11 states (first pass), with a good probability in 6 - well, really the first 3 or 5 (second/third pass), in order of:

OR
AZ
VA
CA
FL
and
NY




> Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.


My guesses, in order, are that you work for:
Richmond PD
Norfolk PD
VA Beach PD

I suppose NOVA is poss, but I really doubt it.

Part of me also wonders if you work for a fusion center or similar and are trying to work up a profile on us.  Especially as a confederate showed up...

-t

----------


## tod evans

One line of questioning from me...

Are you actively involved in any local activism that directly affects current law?

Specifically I'm inquiring whether or not you are publicly speaking out about laws that you have stated you find objectionable..

Do you have the intestinal fortitude to speak against these laws while on the witness stand?

Have you ever proffered honest testimony to the defense?


Notice, none of what I asked is illegal or even immoral, in fact most would consider such behavior ethical...

So sir, are you an ethical police officer or are you going along to get along?

----------


## V3n

> My guesses, in order, are that you work for:


Don't do that.. he's putting himself out there by answering these questions, he's been a good sport, and he seems like one of the good ones.  Outing him is just doing the work of the 'bad ones' for them, so they can come down on him, and they didn't even have to put the puzzle together for themselves.. PM him if the curiosity is killing you, but I don't think this is very cool.

It's going to scare him away.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

I'm torn on who he is.

Granted, I've only read half the thread.

The guy w/ 28 posts who registered in 2011 suddenly popping up and is going RaRaRa!!!! Really makes me wonder....

First pass: You mentioned that 17 is underage is a sexual context.  There are only 11 states that view it this way.  Go back a decade or two and the AOC varied between 12 and 21... depending on the state.  Now it is 16-18.  Most states are 16.  Yes - most have "within so many years" clauses.  Some do not!

The second pass has to do with the migratory routes of runaways...

The third pass has to do with the occurrence of street gangs - and I guess I lied....   I considered other factors...
Drug use
Prostitution
Poverty
$#@! like that...

It looks like you are busting the johns of runaways, who if they have a pimp have probably hooked them on crack in order to control them.  This can make a 15yo look like a 35yo!  and massively reduce there life expectancy.  It also looks like you work a rough neighborhood.  Or else you are busting teen parities and confiscating their cell phones n/ busting them for "sexting"... 



-t


-t

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Now, I know that the word police officer doesn't sit well with most people here. I know that a lot of cops have given you guys a bad taste in your mouth; especially with all the reports of police brutally beating inmates and going around killing dogs to name a few.
> 
> I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force. 
> 
> In those four years, I have seen pretty much every horror you can think of, child pornography in the hands of those sworn to protect this country, members of the military. I have seen gang bangers dead in the middle of the street, brain matter on the side-walk where they were gunned down. I have seen women beaten so badly by their significant others and not wanting to press charges, that it sickened me. I have even seen my fair share of suicides, which are some of the worse things to ever witness. 
> 
> I have arrested quite a few people, I have helped a woman give birth (I don't know how doctors do this), I have taken many many pedophiles off the streets, not once have I asked for praise or anything like that, I saw it as doing my job. In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. I have also never killed anyone's dog, whether it was a suspect's dog or just a regular family dog that came running to me, when I went out to check out a domestic disturbance. I have had hostile dogs try to attack me, but, a squirt of pepper spray took care of that. I have even saved a suspects life after they had a heart attack on me, while I was in the process of cuffing them. 
> 
> I have received various awards over the years from the chief, again not to be a glory hound or anything like that, but to do what I set out to do, and that was protect people that couldn't protect themselves as well as protect my city. I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two $#@!s about your rights. But, they are few and far between. Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our fellow officers behaviors. I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that, that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less. 
> ...


You say you haven't violated anyone's Constitutional rights, but by virtue of doing your job, you HAVE.  Drug dealers are not criminals in the eyes of the forefathers, or in the Constitution.  They are only criminals in today's Un-constitutional America.  If you've ticketed anyone for speeding, if you've arrested them for possession of marijuana or ANY other drug, then you're violating their Constitutional rights.  

As for the "only a small minority of cops are bad" idea, I'll believe that when I see it.

----------


## MelissaCato

Brave post fivezeros. Are you an OathKeeper yet ? If not, check it out and consider joining.

----------


## jcannon98188

> 00000,


BTW, I think the way his username is supposed to be shortened is 5-0

----------


## QuickZ06

If you really want to do some "real" cop work start arresting these corrupt bankers and politicians that have ruined our country, they do far more damage to your community than any _thug_ will.

----------


## bolil

Pffft, a pretender.  If this guy is a cop, I'm the queen of England.

----------


## PursuePeace

> As far as petty stuff like give this person as many tickets as possible, I've never seen anything like it. I wont say it's not there, but, I've never seen it.


I was just joking. I was mostly just making the point that Virginia hands out a pretty hefty amount of traffic tickets. I don't know how they compare to the rest of the country, though.

----------


## bolil

> I was just joking. I was mostly just making the point that Virginia hands out a pretty hefty amount of traffic tickets. I don't know how they compare to the rest of the country, though.


You will get more ingenuous answers out of a hoofed pig.

----------


## Thor



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 1. There are many unjust laws that I refuse to enforce, such as jailing someone who is doing 1 mile over the limit. Yes, that is means enough to put someone in jail and completely unjust especially when we get away with speeding. If you want a more specific answer, put which law you think is unjust, other than drug laws, which I have no choice but to follow as much as I hate to.
> 
> 2. $#@! no, I refuse to shoot a fellow American, I don't want to shoot anyone if I can help it, and if given the order, I'd defect.
> 
> 3. Nope, I would never allow myself to be bribed, nor would I pull anyone for speeding unless they were doing more than 10 miles over, after that I have no choice.


You DO have a choice, sir.  All you are doing right now is rationalization.  Do you realize that?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Why does it matter what I say to you, your opinion about us is already made up?  But, I'll tell you why.
> 
> Yes, it's to put food on the table for my kid and a roof over his head. I have a responsibility to him, to help him live a good life in this crappy world, with the way the economy is going, with there being hardly any jobs out there, this one keeps my son from being homeless. 
> 
> As I said,  if I can talk them into just surrendering peacefully it makes my day better, there is massive paper work to fill out when incidents of that nature happens. IA comes down on your ass hard if you intentionally hurt anyone. Like I said, I prefer not having to use brute force on anyone. But just because I use force to bring them to the ground doesn't mean that I have ever went overboard with it.


Just as I suspected... being a cop is the "easy way" out of being homeless, unemployed, or a minimum wage worker.  Side benefit is you have immunity to the laws you enforce on the mundanes.  Take the easy way out if you want, but don't expect my admiration.  I think it's a despicable thing to join the Stasi just to feed your family at the expense of others, then fall back on the excuse that you "had no choice" because you were "just following orders."

----------


## Red Green

> You DO have a choice, sir.  All you are doing right now is rationalization.  Do you realize that?


+1 on that.

I have to admit, I hate the police.  I refer to them as "pigs" and do so for good reason.  You do realize you are simply the hired muscle for the gang of criminals that call themselves "government" don't you?

Virtually everyone on this board has financial responsibilities.  I have financial responsibilities and kids to pay for, but I absolutely refuse to work for the government in any capacity, let alone being their muscle. 

If you think pulling people over for doing 11mph over the speed limit is serving the community, you're delusional.  If you have participated in any kind of suspicion-less checkpoints (DUI, Immigration, etc) you have willingly violated people's constitutional rights.  The fact that you enforce drug laws means that you actually make the community you supposedly seek to serve less safe rather than more safe.  

'Policing' as such should be done by the marketplace rather than just sending out a group of armed thugs who answer to those in government.  Participating in that monopoly enriches you at the expense of everyone else.

----------


## The Free Hornet

> Dogs killed: 0
> Suspects killed during arrest: 0 
> Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
> *Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100*



So you are the full-time protection arm for big tobacco, big alcohol, big pharma, big cotton, et cetera.

Screw you for thinking you contribute to society.  You're a damn leech.




> 4. Drugs in my opinion should be legalized, it would save a lot of tax payer money and would clear up jail cells for the real criminals out there, the rapist, murderers etc. Did you know that someone in possession of an 8ball of crack, will get almost as much time as a rapist. Where's the justice in that? As for the whole non-violent thing, there have been times when I've had a pothead resist, most of the time you can talk them down, the last thing I want to have to do is slam someone into the ground hurting them.


Actions speak 1000000000 time louder than words.

----------


## jllundqu

I think this forum would be surpirsed how many of us Paulistas are current active duty LEOs... even the dreaded (bum bum BUUUM!!!) DHS (Ohhhh... ahhhh...)

----------


## The Free Hornet

> What you have to realize is even with drugs legalized, unless they start selling it OTC at the pharmacy, *you're still going to have your territorial disputes* between said bangers. I'm all for the legalization, if they put it on store shelves like they did with alcohol after prohibition was lifted, then even the territorial wars would go away, because neither side would have anything to sell. *I just wish, that our dumbass government could see this. [you can't be so naive as to think they don't know this, collectively as well generally as individuals]*


The government is not as $#@!ing stupid as you seem to pretend.  It may lie to itself as well as the people but that is immaterial.  The pols don't care are about the effectiveness of any war aside from

1) did it get me elected/re-elected?
2) did this enrich my donors?

Like yourself, _some_ pols will fill themselves with lies to maintain cognitive dissonance and keep collecting paychecks.

You could live in a gated community with multi-million dollar homes and still have "territorial disputes" (think Kicking'n'Screaming with Coach Ditka blowing his leaves over the fence).

What matters is the nature of those disputes including the frequency, affect on livelihood (how us 'civs' earn our living), relative danger, and access to means of dispute resolution.  The $#@!ing drug warriors ensure:

frequency: all the time, 24x7   versus   fall/leaf season
livelihood: end the competition or go out of business    versus  zero affect on livelihood
relative danger: your competition will kill you         versus    leaf debri may blow into your eye
resolution: no access to courts    versus     lawyers already on retainer

----------


## tod evans

> I think this forum would be surpirsed how many of us Paulistas are current active duty LEOs... even the dreaded (bum bum BUUUM!!!) DHS (Ohhhh... ahhhh...)


I am not, nor have I ever been, in any type of LEO position.

Personally I'd rather house my family in a tent and eat rabbits-n-squirrels than compromise my beliefs.

But that's me.......

----------


## jllundqu

> I am not, nor have I ever been, in any type of LEO position.
> 
> Personally 'd rather house my family in a tent and eat rabbits-n-squirrels than compromise my beliefs.
> 
> But that's me.......


So you're implying that working in law enforcement equates to compromising one's beliefs?

----------


## phill4paul

> So you're implying that working in law enforcement equates to compromising one's beliefs?


  I think he made it clear it would compromise HIS beliefs...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> The police officer in the white shirt was a lieutenant, and his name is Jonathan Josey.
> 
> I have some questions for you, but there are already 20 pages on this thread; so if you've already answered, the post # in the upper right will suffice.
> 
> 1. Should we have laws that differ between cops and private citizens?  For example, if someone can get mandatory 2 years for assaulting a cop, then shouldn't a cop get the same for assaulting someone?
> 
> 2. Have you researched this incident from that video for yourself?  Although he struck that woman I'm not sure it was intentional or not.  I briefly did some poking around online, and from what I found he was arrested, suspended, and eventually fired.  If it was unintentional, do you think he was wronged by being fired?  He was acquitted, not by a jury, but by a judge married to a woman who is a Philadelphia police officer; do you think he should have been tried by a jury, and do you think that the judge being married to a police officer is a conflict of interests?  There is an investigation being done by some entity (don't remember who or what it is exactly) into Josey's acquittal.
> 
> 3. This is regarding your response, regardless of whether Josey actually assault her or accidentally struck her while attempting to do something else, it seems that what you're implying here is that the law enforcement system or model of having police departments is a failure.  Is that what you are saying?  Is there a remedy or solution for this or any other issue involving law enforcement being in effect above the law, in the situation for when it does happen?
> ...



Okay, seems like I have a lot of questions to answer.

1. No, officers are not above the law by any means. We're exactly like regular joes out there, the only thing that makes us different is the fact we wear a badge. We should not have different laws that protect us. IMHO that contributes to the massive hatred that we cops receive.

2. It didn't look unintentional to me, you don't punch anyone period. They teach us the right way to take down a suspect and punching one in the face isn't one of those ways. I feel that him being fired was the right thing to do -- as for him being acquitted by the judge married to a LEO,  I think that the prosecutors should have asked the judge to recuse (sp) himself since it's now a conflict of interest.

3. With what I have seen, it would seem that the academies that a lot of these cops went through were failures, their chief should have the balls to lay down some regulations.

4. I agree, in the municipality that I'm in we have a Sheriff's Department and a Police Department, sadly, the city pretty much stripped the Sheriff of any real power when they ordered the PD formed. I am all for a Sheriff selecting his own men, I mean, if only he could get more like minded people such as himself then we'd be the best PD out there.

----------


## tod evans

> So you're implying that working in law enforcement equates to compromising one's beliefs?


I wouldn't portend to ascribe my beliefs to you or anyone else.

Why, do you want to argue?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> 00000,
> 
>   I've only read half the thread, but you ruined most of the puzzle in post #85 
> 
> I had gotten it down to 11 states (first pass), with a good probability in 6 - well, really the first 3 or 5 (second/third pass), in order of:
> 
> OR
> AZ
> VA
> ...



Your guesses were so close it wasn't funny, but to answer your question. No, I'm not making dossiers on anyone here. I like all of you believe in freedom of speech, freedom of liberty. If I was ordered to profile all of you, I'd ignore it.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> One line of questioning from me...
> 
> Are you actively involved in any local activism that directly affects current law?
> 
> Specifically I'm inquiring whether or not you are publicly speaking out about laws that you have stated you find objectionable..
> 
> Do you have the intestinal fortitude to speak against these laws while on the witness stand?
> 
> Have you ever proffered honest testimony to the defense?
> ...



1. When we had the occupy going on in this section, I was there. Speaking my mind. I didn't get reprimanded for it so obviously that was a good thing. I thought for sure I would have been suspended but it's a good thing that the chief is liberty minded.

2. Some laws I can't speak out about publicly, even if I wanted to, however, I do express my concerns to my fellow officers, as well as the chief. It's not everyday that a regular street cop can sit with the chief and bull$#@! about politics. Who knows, eventually I may run for office to try and change some of these bull$#@! laws we have, at least in this state.

3. I've never had to testify in anything like that, but, if it was a law that I didn't agree with then yea, I'd speak out about it. 

4. When you're called to the witness stand and place your hand on that bible you swear to tell the truth, I have never held back any facts from a defense attorney, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life, especially if it's over drugs. So if asked how many plants were seized from a house, if it was 24 (which is a misdemeanor) I'm not going to say I found 25 to make it a felony. 



I'll let you decide from my answers whether or not you feel that I'm an ethical officer or not.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Your guesses were so close it wasn't funny, but to answer your question. No, I'm not making dossiers on anyone here. I like all of you believe in freedom of speech, freedom of liberty. If I was ordered to profile all of you, I'd ignore it.



We're getting profiled electronically anyway, much more efficiently than a human would do.  So cop or not, I'd say you're definitely not making dossiers.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Don't do that.. he's putting himself out there by answering these questions, he's been a good sport, and he seems like one of the good ones.  Outing him is just doing the work of the 'bad ones' for them, so they can come down on him, and they didn't even have to put the puzzle together for themselves.. PM him if the curiosity is killing you, but I don't think this is very cool.
> 
> It's going to scare him away.




It will take much more than that to scare me off.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I kept hearing the name of Ron Paul, Ron Paul, Ron Paul, so went to google and started researching him and the more that I found out, the more I realized how awesome a guy he is. I would have loved nothing more than to see him in the white house right now.
> 
> 
> and yea, I realize I opened a can of worms, but, it's all good debate. Maybe eventually I can convince some of these guys, that we're not all bad.


Have you left yourself open to the possibility that you might be convinced to quit the pork?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Pffft, a pretender.  If this guy is a cop, I'm the queen of England.



Again, I'm not going to argue with you over this. I'm not going to snap and go, screw it I'll show you my badge and uniform etc, just to appease you because you don't believe me. The whole reverse psychology crap only works on kids.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Have you left yourself open to the possibility that you might be convinced to quit the pork?



I have left myself open to that possibility, along with a lot of other LEO. We have all stated that if they pass gun confiscation laws, we're all walking.

----------


## tod evans

> I'll let you decide from my answers whether or not you feel that I'm an ethical officer or not.


You speak well.

I'm going to hold off on forming any type of opinion.

Just by coming here and engaging in open discussion you exhibit potential.

Carry on.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Brave post fivezeros. Are you an OathKeeper yet ? If not, check it out and consider joining.



I kept seeing that posted and wondered what it was, I'll def check it out.

----------


## AFPVet

> I think this forum would be surprised how many of us Paulistas are current active duty LEOs... even the dreaded (bum bum BUUUM!!!) DHS (Ohhhh... ahhhh...)


Haha... indeed  

I am no longer an active peace officer, but I was a military policeman for three and a half years before doing a year as a civilian peace officer. That was a few years ago, but even then, I saw the tide turning... procedurally and new hire wise.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Just as I suspected... being a cop is the "easy way" out of being homeless, unemployed, or a minimum wage worker.  Side benefit is you have immunity to the laws you enforce on the mundanes.  Take the easy way out if you want, but don't expect my admiration.  I think it's a despicable thing to join the Stasi just to feed your family at the expense of others, then fall back on the excuse that you "had no choice" because you were "just following orders."



Yea, but there are some orders that I wouldn't dare follow. You obviously have no children if you think it's despicable. One day when you have a kid that relies on you, and the mother is no longer around, you will do what you have to do. I'm not here for your admiration, as my first post said, I'm not looking for glory, I'm opening up debates about a really touchy subject here.

Again, you can hate on me all you want, but, I had the choice, be able to give my son a home to live in and put food in his stomach or to be on the streets and my son end up in the hands of the state, going to one foster home after another.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> To answer your question, no, I don't have my own personal little vendetta notebook, it's usually a judgement call, most of the time we never pull the same driver over more than once. 
> 
> As for what you asked BXM -- no that wont help you at all... however, if you know any cops in your area, ask them for a get out of jail free card. You can only use one, and it's normally given to people in the Fraternal Order of Police and their families, but it's a pretty good way to get out of a speeding ticket. Probably shouldn't have told you that, but, what the hell... you hate cops so the likelihood of you being friends with one is pretty slim lol.


I'm going to ask the next cop I see for a get out of jail free card.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I'm going to ask the next cop I see for a get out of jail free card.



They'll probably look at you crazy if you aren't on first name terms with them.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Again, I'm not going to argue with you over this. I'm not going to snap and go, screw it I'll show you my badge and uniform etc, just to appease you because you don't believe me. The whole reverse psychology crap only works on kids.



Instead of bolil, it would make more sense to do so privately to a trusted forum admin.  (no offense, bolil)

Now, honestly, I don't care who here is LE or not.  But since you are claiming that for yourself and have a 26 page thread speaking as a LEO, I don't think it would hurt.

----------


## presence

> my son end up in the hands of the state, going to one foster home after another


Rhetorically, how many foster kids are bouncing from home to home because of non-violent offences committed by their parents?  

You're a part of that.

----------


## presence

> They'll probably look at you crazy if you aren't on first name terms with them.


Just Us



*Thread: Get out of Jail Free Cards For Friends and Family of Cops?*

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Rhetorically, how many foster kids are bouncing from home to home because of non-violent offences committed by their parents?  
> 
> You're a part of that.



Most mothers are still alive and there are grandparents as well. My son had neither, so again, if you're trying to make me feel bad for doing what state laws mandate me to do. You know that whole 10th amendment, that gives states the right to pass their own laws. Yea that thing. A lot of you like to say it's against the constitution what I'm doing, but you all seem to keep neglecting the fact that the State of Virginia in accordance to the 10th amendment, passed these laws.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I'm going to ask the next cop I see for a get out of jail free card.





> They'll probably look at you crazy if you aren't on first name terms with them.


They'll probably go upside your head.

----------


## whoisjohngalt

FiveZeroes, I have known cops and people higher up who have turned a blind eye towards non violent drug offenses.  I would suggest that is what you should do as well.  There is no reason  you have to prosecute such offenses.  I can't understand why you would compromise your beliefs in the name of a paycheck or for any other reason.

Also, it doesn't help that I was assaulted for drunkenly saying "$#@! you" to the person who told me to pick up the cigarette butt I had just tossed.  I didn't realize it was a cop until my head was being slammed into an electrical box.  Once I started apologizing profusely he seemed like a pretty nice guy, but a little insult to his pride was worthy of assault.  None of the other cops there batted an eye.

At the court, the appointed guy who I talked to, was like, "You deserved it for saying $#@! you to him.  You should never say $#@! you to someone."  The courts are part of the problem too.  Every time someone like me has an experience like this, it becomes difficult to ever trust police again.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Instead of bolil, it would make more sense to do so privately to a trusted forum admin.  (no offense, bolil)
> 
> Now, honestly, I don't care who here is LE or not.  But since you are claiming that for yourself and have a 26 page thread speaking as a LEO, I don't think it would hurt.




My badge shows my badge number as well as the PD that I work with. I don't trust anyone, including admins with that info. I'm pretty sure I have said $#@! that I shouldn't have that can get me in some serious $#@!. So I'd prefer not to, as I stated in my original post, I'm not going to tell any of you which PD I work for. Also, why would anyone claim to be a police officer knowing damn well how badly we're hated on these forums.

----------


## presence

So how are you doing on your traffic ticket quota this month?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> FiveZeroes, I have known cops and people higher up who have turned a blind eye towards non violent drug offenses.  I would suggest that is what you should do as well.  There is no reason  you have to prosecute such offenses.  I can't understand why you would compromise your beliefs in the name of a paycheck or for any other reason.
> 
> Also, it doesn't help that I was assaulted for drunkenly saying "$#@! you" to the person who told me to pick up the cigarette butt I had just tossed.  I didn't realize it was a cop until my head was being slammed into an electrical box.  Once I started apologizing profusely he seemed like a pretty nice guy, but a little insult to his pride was worthy of assault.  None of the other cops there batted an eye.
> 
> At the court, the appointed guy who I talked to, was like, "You deserved it for saying $#@! you to him.  You should never say $#@! you to someone."  The courts are part of the problem too.  Every time someone like me has an experience like this, it becomes difficult to ever trust police again.




I have stated numerous times in this thread that I have turned a blind eye to a lot of non-violent crimes. I roll by drug dealers everyday when I'm on shift. I have let people go with warnings when I pull them over and smell pot, most cops would arrest them for something stupid.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So how are you doing on your traffic ticket quota this month?


Contrary to popular belief, those don't exist. Unless the Staties have something like that.

----------


## presence

So you go 6 months without writing any revenue generating tickets... you keep your job?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So you go 6 months without writing any revenue generating tickets... you keep your job?


I've never went 6 months without writing a ticket, so I don't know. But, our chief actually addressed these claims of us having to get a certain quota. Again, it's all bs.

----------


## presence

So when you get performance evaluations is your "traffic activity level" noted?  "Objective traffic performance"?  How do they phrase the impenetrable technical jargon version of "quota" in your department?  Enhanced motor vehicle objective?    Mean daily citation magnitude?

There's no "quota" but you count and "how many" comes up in conversation during performance reviews does it not?  

But that's not a quota.





> Timothy Tatum says he issued the order requiring at least 10 citations a day from each officer


http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/india...c-ticket-quota

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> My badge shows my badge number as well as the PD that I work with. I don't trust anyone, including admins with that info. I'm pretty sure I have said $#@! that I shouldn't have that can get me in some serious $#@!. So I'd prefer not to, as I stated in my original post, I'm not going to tell any of you which PD I work for. Also, why would anyone claim to be a police officer knowing damn well how badly we're hated on these forums.



Sorry, I misread, and thought you offered.  You know how it is, though.  On the internet, no one knows you're a dog.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So when you get performance evaluations is your "traffic activity level" noted?  "Objective traffic performance"?  How do they phrase the impenetrable technical jargon version of "quota" in your department?  Enhanced motor vehicle objective?    Mean daily citation magnitude?
> 
> There's no "quota" but you count and "how many" comes up in conversation during performance reviews does it not?  
> 
> But that's not a quota.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/india...c-ticket-quota



I'm asked how many tickets I write, but, there is no quota on it. If I go two to three weeks without writing a ticket, then I don't get in trouble for it. Sadly, I can't let everyone I pull over, off with a warning. The people who get off with warnings are mostly the ones that are truthful, know that they messed up. But if I clock someone doing 15 over the speed limit, then I write the ticket. I think I'm pretty lenient with my 10mph over policy. As long as it's not a residential zone. But, when you get up into the range of reckless driving, that's where I draw the line. 


@Money, No problem. And yea, all I can offer is my word. Especially on the net. I mean if I gave out my badge number here and the PD I'm with all it takes is someone being spiteful and calling up the chief and I get demerits for it.

----------


## AFPVet

> I'm asked how many tickets I write, but, there is no quota on it. If I go two to three weeks without writing a ticket, then I don't get in trouble for it. Sadly, I can't let everyone I pull over, off with a warning. The people who get off with warnings are mostly the ones that are truthful, know that they messed up. But if I clock someone doing *15 over the speed limit*, then I write the ticket. I think I'm pretty lenient with my 10mph over policy. As long as it's not a residential zone. But, when you get up into the range of reckless driving, that's where I draw the line. 
> 
> 
> @Money, No problem. And yea, all I can offer is my word. Especially on the net. I mean if I gave out my badge number here and the PD I'm with all it takes is someone being spiteful and calling up the chief and I get demerits for it.


This was my department's policy... 15 and over (in a 55) was a ticket. Anything 65-70 was a warning, but we usually just flashed our lights at them to slow them down, check our rear radar, and if they didn't slow down, we stopped them and issued a verbal warning. 

My personal opinion is that speed limits are for revenue generation. So long as you aren't doing 100 down a crowded state road and weaving like those Fast and Furious punks, I really don't care.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Contrary to popular belief, those don't exist. Unless the Staties have something like that.


How about your 250s?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> How about your 250s?



This would have to do with quota and I know NY is a heavy player with this. Again, we don't have quota's. Especially frisk quota's that's ridiculous.




> This was my department's policy... 15 and over (in a 55) was a ticket. Anything 65-70 was a warning, but we usually just flashed our lights at them to slow them down, check our rear radar, and if they didn't slow down, we stopped them and issued a verbal warning. 
> 
> My personal opinion is that speed limits are for revenue generation. So long as you aren't doing 100 down a crowded state road and weaving like those Fast and Furious punks, I really don't care.




That's what I'm saying, as long as someone admits to and doesn't try to bs their way out of a ticket, if I pull them doing 15 over, I'll let them off with a warning.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

It was more a joke. I know you guys don't do stop and frisks out there. At least, definitely not on the scale of NYC. I'd point out that Bloomberg and the rest vehemently deny there is a quota system as well. As presence stated, it is something like an 'optimal interaction rate' or whatever they called it. The different precincts called it something different and I can't really remember off the top of my head. Whistleblowers have recorded their superiors encouraging them to stop and frisk more people to get the bigger bosses off their back. Say you write 30 tickets one month, and the following you write 3. Would you imagine your superiors asking about your lack of 'performance?' Do you think that they would say, 'Well last month you had all these stops, now you barely have any, what's going on?' Because it does happen at other departments. Do you believe you could write zero tickets in a month and not be warned to step up your policing?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> It was more a joke. I know you guys don't do stop and frisks out there. At least, definitely not on the scale of NYC. I'd point out that Bloomberg and the rest vehemently deny there is a quota system as well. As presence stated, it is something like an 'optimal interaction rate' or whatever they called it. The different precincts called it something different and I can't really remember of the top of my head. Whistleblowers have recorded their superiors encouraging them to stop and frisk more people to get the bigger bosses off their back. Say you write 30 tickets one month, and the following you write 3. Would you imagine your superiors asking about your lack of 'performance?' Do you think that they would say, 'Well last month you had all these stops, now you barely have any, what's going on?' Because it does happen at other departments. Do you believe you could write zero tickets in a month and not be warned to step up your policing?


I've heard of the stop and frisk crap they pull in NY, that is sickening and an abuse of the people you're frisking for no reason, it's an abuse of their rights. 

The most tickets I have written in a month was 23, could have been more but I let a lot of people go on warnings. The least I have written was 7. I consider the 7 as a good month, it usually means that no one has broken the law. And I wasn't really reprimanded on that. Had a SGT tell me I was letting to many people off with warnings and when I told him my position on things he pretty much had nothing else to say on the matter.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I wouldn't portend to ascribe my beliefs to you or anyone else.
> 
> Why, do you want to argue?


The RPF equivalent of "U mad bro?"

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I have left myself open to that possibility, along with a lot of other LEO. We have all stated that if they pass gun confiscation laws, we're all walking.


Noble enough.  Although I believe you have already compromised any kind of belief in liberty by participating, you seem like the kind of LEO that I would want to pull me over, if anyone was to do so.  I will let you justify it internally to yourself, but keep in mind that, as someone committed to liberty, I think you would find it much more rewarding to work for a company who pays you for the work you do for them, rather than for the government, which pays you only with stolen money.  

There is nothing like the feeling that you actually want to make money for your company because you believe strongly that the whole operation in which you are a participant is completely legitimate and voluntary.  I would never find being a police officer fulfilling, no matter how I twisted it.  There must be a reason why you came here to discuss this, and I suspect that it was to evaluate whether you should continue in your career.  I think you would find it more fulfilling switching careers, but that is just my opinion.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> Dogs killed: 0
> Suspects killed during arrest: 0 
> Pedo's off the street: 30-ish
> Hard Drug Dealers: Over 100


Do you belong to a LE union?
How many No Knocks have you committed?
I don't think all cops are evil. In fact I don't think cops are any more evil than the people they arrest on a daily basis. They are a cross section of society, subject to the same human natures as the rest of us. No doubt cops have committed every crime that the rest of society has. The problem I have with enforcers is the lack of risk of punishment that they are privileged with and the extreme power they hold over others. No one polices the police, not in any way comparable to how they police the rest of society. When an entity is produced that No Knocks an enforcers home and family for abuse of power, then maybe the concept of LE would be less dangerous to society.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Do you belong to a LE union?
> How many No Knocks have you committed?
> I don't think all cops are evil. In fact I don't think cops are any more evil than the people they arrest on a daily basis. They are a cross section of society, subject to the same human natures as the rest of us. No doubt cops have committed every crime that the rest of society has. The problem I have with enforcers is the lack of risk of punishment that they are privileged with and the extreme power they hold over others. No one polices the police, not in any way comparable to how they police the rest of society. When an entity is produced that No Knocks an enforcers home and family for abuse of power, then maybe the concept of LE would be less dangerous to society.




All cops belong to the police union from the time you enter the academy, until the day you retire, you're in that union.  I've been involved in 0 no knocks. It's mostly SWAT that is involved with that.

----------


## mrsat_98

http://iamnotananimal.org/pdfs/I_AM_NOT_AN_ANIMAL.pdf is a link to an objection to "man or other animal" drug laws that reduce all people to the level of animal which appears to be an act of genocide. In addition all government agents involved be they LEO's prosecutors, judges or jailers would appear to be involved in human trafficking ( 3 counts is mandatory 90 years) for any involvement in arresting and prosecuting drug laws. So far the court system is choking on this argument. Are you willing to make further admissions or confessions in relation to your involvement in these crimes ?

----------


## Bruehound

Thanks for starting this conversation FiveZeros. I have many friends in Law Enforcement but I still disrespect the profession based on how the politicians warp its mission. Most people are judging your profession based upon their own personal experiences and the bottom line is if you ask people about their last 5 interactions with law enforcement and ask how many of those encounters were to their benefit versus how many caused them physical or economic harm you will see things as we see them.

I would like to take this opportunity to ask you about steroid abuse within your profession. Many of my LEO friends confirm there is a rampant problem of steroid abuse among younger officers. I don't like thinking about roided up 20 somethings in battle gear. What have you seen or heard personally regarding this?

----------


## Red Green

> This would have to do with quota and I know NY is a heavy player with this. Again, we don't have quota's. Especially frisk quota's that's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm saying, as long as someone admits to and doesn't try to bs their way out of a ticket, if I pull them doing 15 over, I'll let them off with a warning.


When I get pulled over by a pig, I don't answer any questions.  So does that mean when you pull me over you would write me a ticket for essentially asserting my 5th Amendment rights?

How do you justify in your mind writing someone a ticket for 15 over?  As the other guy said, speed limits are not about safety but rather revenue generation.  Do you feel good being the city's highwayman?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> When I get pulled over by a pig, I don't answer any questions.  So does that mean when you pull me over you would write me a ticket for essentially asserting my 5th Amendment rights?
> 
> How do you justify in your mind writing someone a ticket for 15 over?  As the other guy said, speed limits are not about safety but rather revenue generation.  Do you feel good being the city's highwayman?



I feel that writing you a ticket is better than hauling your ass off to jail, as 15 and over is considered reckless driving. Which would you prefer, jail or a ticket? I don't make the laws, I just enforce them. Again, the state exercises its 10th amendment rights to make said laws. Like I've pointed out most people love to think that their rights are somehow being violated, yet always and I mean always refuse to acknowledge the 10th amendment. 

And if I pulled you and you remained silent you're well within your rights under the 5th. So, no, I wouldn't write you a ticket for that. What you would be getting the ticket for is reckless driving, which makes you a danger to every other driver on the road including yourself. And as I said, most officers would throw you in the back of the car and haul you off to jail for going 15 over.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Thanks for starting this conversation FiveZeros. I have many friends in Law Enforcement but I still disrespect the profession based on how the politicians warp its mission. Most people are judging your profession based upon their own personal experiences and the bottom line is if you ask people about their last 5 interactions with law enforcement and ask how many of those encounters were to their benefit versus how many caused them physical or economic harm you will see things as we see them.
> 
> I would like to take this opportunity to ask you about steroid abuse within your profession. Many of my LEO friends confirm there is a rampant problem of steroid abuse among younger officers. I don't like thinking about roided up 20 somethings in battle gear. What have you seen or heard personally regarding this?



Most officers I know, only use pro-hormones, which are not illegal in this country, nor are they considered steroids. Like any profession officers are randomly tested for drug and alcohol use.

----------


## Petar

One time some cops came to my house to talk to my brother about some trouble that he was involved in, and when they ended up arresting him in a needlessly rough manner, then I made the comment: "calm down OJ" (the arresting officer looked exactly like OJ Simpson). Some other police then kindly introduced my head to a closet door, and bounced me off of a bunch of other stuff on my way out to the front lawn. The lawn was where I discovered that if someone is continuously grinding the ribs on your back with their knuckles then it really hurts a lot. Word to the wise: if you sob like a baby and cry about how "sorry you are" then abusive cops think you are a pussy and suddenly stop torturing you. That gives you a chance to start talking a bunch of $#@! again. I don't hate cops per se, but that was a $#@!ed up day.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> One time some cops came to my house to talk to my brother about some trouble that he was involved in, and when they ended up arresting him in a needlessly rough manner, then I made the comment: "calm down OJ" (the arresting officer looked exactly like OJ Simpson). Some other police then kindly introduced my head to a closet door, and bounced me off of a bunch of other stuff on my way out to the front lawn. The lawn was where I discovered that if someone is continuously grinding the ribs on your back with their knuckles then it really hurts a lot. Word to the wise: if you sob like a baby and cry about how "sorry you are" then abusive cops think you are a pussy and suddenly stop torturing you. That gives you a chance to start talking a bunch of $#@! again. I don't hate cops per se, but that was a $#@!ed up day.




Sounds like it.

----------


## Petar

> Sounds like it.


I mean it's cool that you would prefer if drugs were legal, but don't you sometimes wish that you didn't have a job that requires you to lock up innocent people? 

I'm glad to hear that you guys talked about walking if guns are getting confiscated though, I reeeeaaaaaally hope that is a widespread thing.

----------


## FrancisMarion

I have a question for you.  What is your opinion on the charge of disorderly conduct?

----------


## Red Green

> I feel that writing you a ticket is better than hauling your ass off to jail, as 15 and over is considered reckless driving. Which would you prefer, jail or a ticket? I don't make the laws, I just enforce them.


Spoken like a true pig.  The guards at Nuremberg used the same justification for a much worse crime.  Just because some ass-clown with a title wrote down that 15 over is "reckless" doesn't make it so.  Remember, those speed laws you're enforcing have zero (in fact five zeros) to do with safety.  They have everything to do with revenue.  

I honestly don't know how you sleep at night. 




> Again, the state exercises its 10th amendment rights to make said laws. Like I've pointed out most people love to think that their rights are somehow being violated, yet always and I mean always refuse to acknowledge the 10th amendment.


Now you're sounding like an idiot, which is what I would expect from a pig.  The 10th amendment is not an admission that the states can do whatever they want, it is a limitation on the federal government.  Furthermore, just because speed limits might pass muster under the state constitution, does not mean that it does not violate a person's rights.  Rights are derived from our creator, not government.  




> And if I pulled you and you remained silent you're well within your rights under the 5th. So, no, I wouldn't write you a ticket for that. What you would be getting the ticket for is reckless driving, which makes you a danger to every other driver on the road including yourself. And as I said, most officers would throw you in the back of the car and haul you off to jail for going 15 over.


I'm all for safe driving but speed limits have nothing to do with safe driving.  In fact, they defy the laws of physics.  If a cement mixer is safe traveling 65mph, why would the maximum safe speed for my 2800lb sports car be 65mph?  It's just so ridiculous that people don't actually think about speed limits as just little tax triggers.

So if driving 15 over is "reckless", why do pigs get away with doing it all the time?  Did that shiny badge they hand you have mystical powers that made your heavy car nimble and crash-proof?

But it's good that you're showing your true pig-self.  You speak of other pigs as being really, really bad as though that makes the evil you commit palatable.  

I know I am being hard on you, but honestly I sincerely hope that you reflect on what you are doing with your life.  Since you are on here you are either a troll or at least somewhat sympathetic to the causes of liberty.  On one hand I see the value of having liberty-minded people in government positions since that means that at least we have some agents of change available but that is only as good insofar as your willingness to be an agent of change.  And that may end up ending your career.  If anything, instead of coming here trying to justify your actions as a pig perhaps you can tell us what you are doing to make a change and not justify stuff like imprisoning people for drug possession or writing silly traffic violations.  Maybe the next time you pull someone over for just doing 15 over and write them a ticket, instead of giving them some lecture about how unsafe they were driving, maybe you should apologize and let them know that this is what their government hires you to do and that you have little choice in the matter.  At least then you wouldn't come off as another $#@! pig.

----------


## Red Green

> One time some cops came to my house to talk to my brother about some trouble that he was involved in, and when they ended up arresting him in a needlessly rough manner, then I made the comment: "calm down OJ" (the arresting officer looked exactly like OJ Simpson). Some other police then kindly introduced my head to a closet door, and bounced me off of a bunch of other stuff on my way out to the front lawn. The lawn was where I discovered that if someone is continuously grinding the ribs on your back with their knuckles then it really hurts a lot. Word to the wise: if you sob like a baby and cry about how "sorry you are" then abusive cops think you are a pussy and suddenly stop torturing you. That gives you a chance to start talking a bunch of $#@! again. I don't hate cops per se, but that was a $#@!ed up day.


Actually, that's when you hope there's a video camera running somewhere and you get a payday.

----------


## JoelYrick

Here's a model police officer: http://freekeene.com/2010/01/27/brad...w-enforcement/

----------


## Neil Desmond

> Okay, seems like I have a lot of questions to answer.
> 
> 1. No, officers are not above the law by any means. We're exactly like regular joes out there, the only thing that makes us different is the fact we wear a badge. We should not have different laws that protect us. IMHO that contributes to the massive hatred that we cops receive.
> 
> 2. It didn't look unintentional to me, you don't punch anyone period. They teach us the right way to take down a suspect and punching one in the face isn't one of those ways. I feel that him being fired was the right thing to do -- as for him being acquitted by the judge married to a LEO,  I think that the prosecutors should have asked the judge to recuse (sp) himself since it's now a conflict of interest.
> 
> 3. With what I have seen, it would seem that the academies that a lot of these cops went through were failures, their chief should have the balls to lay down some regulations.
> 
> 4. I agree, in the municipality that I'm in we have a Sheriff's Department and a Police Department, sadly, the city pretty much stripped the Sheriff of any real power when they ordered the PD formed. I am all for a Sheriff selecting his own men, I mean, if only he could get more like minded people such as himself then we'd be the best PD out there.


Thanks for responding.  Regarding #2, don't you think he has a right to presumption of innocence just like any other person?  According to what I read about this incident, he was not trying to strike her; he says that he was trying to knock a beer bottle out of her hand.  Doesn't it seem odd that both he and the other police officer start walking towards her at the same time with the same attitude or tone in their body posture, as though they're reacting to something she did?  She was spraying silly string and they thought she poured beer on them (from what I remember playing with silly string myself I can see why they perceived that); the way she's maneuvering she apparently ended up moving into the path of his swing & all hell broke loose with his career.  I think maybe he should have gotten in trouble, not for assaulting her, but because he did a bone-headed thing like swinging carelessly at her like that.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Spoken like a true pig.  
> 
> I honestly don't know how you sleep at night. 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're sounding like an idiot, which is what I would expect from a pig.  
> 
> 
> ...


$#@! you. As somebody who has had their life saved by cops, I say $#@! you. This guy is trying to answer questions and all you can do spew ridiculous bile out of your $#@!ty childish mouth. 

Stop being a $#@!ing dick.

I certainly know you irrational $#@!s are no going to agree with this gentleman. But everything he has said has been polite and respectful. He has made it clear that he respects the constitution.

But no. What do the asshats here at RPF do. They call him a PIG. OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Jesus you are pathetic.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## Red Green

> $#@! you. As somebody who has had their life saved by cops, I say $#@! you. This guy is trying to answer questions and all you can do spew ridiculous bile out of your $#@!ty childish mouth.


Why do you have a problem with me referring to the pigs as "pigs"?  If you had your life saved by a child molester, would you take exception to me referring to them as a "$#@!ing perverted kiddie-diddler"?  Yeah, pigs sometimes do good things.  They are people just like everyone else.  The difference is they get paid to $#@! over hard working taxpayers.  They have a protected monopoly.  The are basically above the law.  This guy can stop being a pig anytime he wants, but he chooses to.




> Stop being a $#@!ing dick.


I'm a dick?  I'm not the one who admitted to kidnapping and caging people for carrying substances the government does not approve of.  I'm not the one who pulled people over for the specious reason of driving at a speed not approved by the government so I could collect some money from them.  I'm not the one forcing myself on people and justifying it because I have bills to pay.  

Buddy grow up.  I refer to the pigs as "pigs" because what they do, for the most part, is reprehensible.  They are worse than most "public servants" in that most in the public sector are useless drags on the economy that just waste my hard-earned tax dollars.  However, the pigs actually go out of their way to see if they can shake me down for even more money than I'm already paying by handing out BS tickets.  On top of that, if you ever really do need them, they're far worse than the postal service.  Calling them "police" or "officers" or even "cops" give some sort of respect to their occupation that is hardly deserved.  




> I certainly know you irrational $#@!s are no going to agree with this gentleman. But everything he has said has been polite and respectful. He has made it clear that he respects the constitution.


He made it clear he is willing to violate people's rights to keep is job, that's hardly respecting the constitution.  I am trying to be as respectful as possible, but I am clear about what cops are and I'm not going to pussyfoot around it.  The fellow should be treated like a social pariah for what he does for a living.   




> But no. What do the asshats here at RPF do. They call him a PIG. OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
> 
> Jesus you are pathetic.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee


It's nothing personal with this fellow; all cops are pigs.  He's a pig for being a cop.  He might otherwise be a really fine fellow.  I have an associate of mine who I really like who is a cop.  I do not respect what he does for a living.  In talking with him I would not employ the term, but he does know how I feel.  It is his co-workers who earned him that title; I did not hand it out arbitrarily.  If the cops started acting like officer friendlies, I might soften my view but calling them cops or police is basically putting lipstick on a pig.

----------


## Thor

I have a simple question.  Based upon these 2 statements by you:




> That one, I cannot answer, *as much as I'd love to tell you, because they were heading to a crime scene, I can't.  It pisses me off to when I'm off-duty and in my personal vehicle, to see a cop doing more than 20 miles over.*





> *I feel that writing you a ticket is better than hauling your ass off to jail, as 15 and over is considered reckless driving. Which would you prefer, jail or a ticket?* I don't make the laws, I just enforce them. Again, the state exercises its 10th amendment rights to make said laws. Like I've pointed out most people love to think that their rights are somehow being violated, yet always and I mean always refuse to acknowledge the 10th amendment. 
> 
> And if I pulled you and you remained silent you're well within your rights under the 5th. So, no, I wouldn't write you a ticket for that. What you would be getting the ticket for is reckless driving, which makes you a danger to every other driver on the road including yourself. *And as I said, most officers would throw you in the back of the car and haul you off to jail for going 15 over.*


How many of your fellow officers, that you have seen doing more than 20 mph over the limit as you have indicated above, have you written a ticket to, thrown in the back of your car and hauled off to jail, or at least reported?  I mean, after all, it is "reckless driving" and you have no choice, right?  Or is it "selective enforcement?"  i.e. revenue stream.  Just because you are in your personal vehicle does not mean you can't report it.  Have you reported it?  Or are you just "pissed off."  End of story.

And how is it the same roads that used to be limited to 55 mph (in order to qualify for Federal funding the state had to adhere to the 55 max) and now the EXACT same roads are 65, 70 and 75 MPH, but yet it was reckless driving when it was 15 over 55, and now the limit is as much as 20 mph higher than before, so isn't adhering to the limit today even "reckless" by the old standard?  It is all bull $#@!.  People can be perfectly safe and not reckless at 85 MPH.  It is all about the Cha-Ching!  Control.  Scare tactics.  

If you believe what you say about "safety", report your fellow officers that you see going 20 MPH over the limit.  I would like to see how well you get along with your fellow officers after you start reporting them for doing 20+ mph over the limit.

I am glad you recognize liberty enough to be here and stick your neck out, but you have to see there are some things you have rationalized that just don't mesh.  You will see it eventually if you don't get run off or bummed out for the heat you get.  Thanks for saying hi.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Why do you have a problem with me referring to the pigs as "pigs"?  If you had your life saved by a child molester, would you take exception to me referring to them as a "$#@!ing perverted kiddie-diddler"?  Yeah, pigs sometimes do good things.  They are people just like everyone else.  The difference is they get paid to $#@! over hard working taxpayers.  They have a protected monopoly.  The are basically above the law.  This guy can stop being a pig anytime he wants, but he chooses to.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a dick?  I'm not the one who admitted to kidnapping and caging people for carrying substances the government does not approve of.  I'm not the one who pulled people over for the specious reason of driving at a speed not approved by the government so I could collect some money from them.  I'm not the one forcing myself on people and justifying it because I have bills to pay.  
> 
> Buddy grow up.  I refer to the pigs as "pigs" because what they do, for the most part, is reprehensible.  They are worse than most "public servants" in that most in the public sector are useless drags on the economy that just waste my hard-earned tax dollars.  However, the pigs actually go out of their way to see if they can shake me down for even more money than I'm already paying by handing out BS tickets.  On top of that, if you ever really do need them, they're far worse than the postal service.  Calling them "police" or "officers" or even "cops" give some sort of respect to their occupation that is hardly deserved.  
> 
> 
> ...


Go $#@! yourself. 

I don't expect you to agree with the man, but treat him with respect when you speak to him you disgraceful little $#@!.

Slutter McGee

----------


## Red Green

> Go $#@! yourself. 
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with the man, but treat him with respect when you speak to him you disgraceful little $#@!.
> 
> Slutter McGee


Sounds like someone's a pig in their spare time.

Back at ya boot-licker.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Thanks for responding.  Regarding #2, don't you think he has a right to presumption of innocence just like any other person?  According to what I read about this incident, he was not trying to strike her; he says that he was trying to knock a beer bottle out of her hand.  Doesn't it seem odd that both he and the other police officer start walking towards her at the same time with the same attitude or tone in their body posture, as though they're reacting to something she did?  She was spraying silly string and they thought she poured beer on them (from what I remember playing with silly string myself I can see why they perceived that); the way she's maneuvering she apparently ended up moving into the path of his swing & all hell broke loose with his career.  I think maybe he should have gotten in trouble, not for assaulting her, but because he did a bone-headed thing like swinging carelessly at her like that.




He would have the right to be presumed innocent if there wasn't video evidence showing the contrary. 


@Red Green I sound like an idiot because I point out that the 10th amendment gives the state the right to make their own laws? Amazing, you're like most people I meet, the constitution is only needed when you think it benefits you. You can't just use the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and just forego the 10th altogether. You can say all you want that the 10th doesn't give states the right to do $#@!, but, then you or someone else will turn right back around and say the state has the right to legalize drugs if they want. Seriously, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

@thor If I'm in my personal vehicle, I can't pull over anyone over. If I see a statie doing it, I can't pull them over due to jurisdiction crap, here is how the order works for those of you that don't know. Sheriff--Statie--Local. Most of the time I will rarely ever see another local doing over the speed limit, especially that high over.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Go $#@! yourself. 
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with the man, but treat him with respect when you speak to him you disgraceful little $#@!.
> 
> Slutter McGee



It's cool, he's entitled to his childish opinions. I at least respect him enough for not just neg repping me and not having the balls to reply to something and offer a debate, like a few people have done here. 

I read your post, how did the officer save your life if you don't mind me asking.

----------


## presence

> I don't make the laws, I just enforce them.



plenty to choose from you might say

----------


## Red Green

> It's cool, he's entitled to his childish opinions.


Childish opinions are the ones that glorify cops; educated opinions are the ones I have.  In my 25 years of adulthood, I have never failed to be quite disappointed in my interactions with the pigs, save once where some undercover guys gave me a lift when i ran out of gas.  Mind you, that was outside their official duties and as I have said, your occupation is filled with people who still do good things but they also do a hell of a lot of evil.  And many times they do so with the approval of their own conscience.  You seem to have some trouble with your conscience so at least you're a little more human than a lot of them, but I would say you have a lot of amends to make.  




> I at least respect him enough for not just neg repping me and not having the balls to reply to something and offer a debate, like a few people have done here.


Please don't try to take the pig moniker too personal; it's really just a description of what you do.   I have lawyer friends that I make lawyer jokes about and those jokes are always dripping with half-truths.  They know the reason they have the reputation they have and don't really take offense to the perception that has been built as a result.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> plenty to choose from you might say



To many bs ones, that I can't even stand. But again, until states use their 10th amendment rights to change things, I have to follow the laws just as you or anyone else does.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> It's cool, he's entitled to his childish opinions. I at least respect him enough for not just neg repping me and not having the balls to reply to something and offer a debate, like a few people have done here. 
> 
> I read your post, how did the officer save your life if you don't mind me asking.


Violent gang here in town years ago. My father put one of em in jail and they decided they would try to kill his entire family which means me. An officer caught wind of this from an informant and was able to catch them two blocks down from my house in the nick of time. I was playing in the front yard.

I am not a fan of drug laws either, but I recognize that you have no choice but to enforce them. Id rather have police who reluctantly enforce bad laws and respect the constitutional rights of citizens than those who enforce 
bad laws with zeal and ignore those rights.

These ridiculous little $#@!s take their hatred of the drug laws out on you, because they are too $#@!ing stupid to see that you are the kind of cop that we need more of.

I thank you for sharing. Don't let these little pricks run you off.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## QuickZ06

> plenty to choose from you might say


40k last year alone?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Childish opinions are the ones that glorify cops; educated opinions are the ones I have.  In my 25 years of adulthood, I have never failed to be quite disappointed in my interactions with the pigs, save once where some undercover guys gave me a lift when i ran out of gas.  Mind you, that was outside their official duties and as I have said, your occupation is filled with people who still do good things but they also do a hell of a lot of evil.  And many times they do so with the approval of their own conscience.  You seem to have some trouble with your conscience so at least you're a little more human than a lot of them, but I would say you have a lot of amends to make.  
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't try to take the pig moniker too personal; it's really just a description of what you do.   I have lawyer friends that I make lawyer jokes about and those jokes are always dripping with half-truths.  They know the reason they have the reputation they have and don't really take offense to the perception that has been built as a result.




As I said in my OP, if the pig moniker got to me, I'd have snapped ages ago. I get called that more in one shift than in all the posts in this current topic. And again, I really do mean what I said, at least you didn't read my OP neg rep me with the comment, lies, lies, lies, bs, bs, bs... like one person up here has done, who hasn't had the balls to at least tell me what exactly I lied about. Truthfully, I don't care about getting negged if you're going to at least join in on the debates.

----------


## QuickZ06

> Go $#@! yourself. 
> 
> I don't expect you to agree with the man, but treat him with respect when you speak to him you disgraceful little $#@!.
> 
> Slutter McGee


It was his opinion on the interwebz, and you want him to show someone over the internet respect? The op said he wants to be anonymous, we don't even know WHO in the hell to respect in the first place!! You been drinkin in a few tonight, fluoride in the water? Really man why are you letting a post get you that worked up. The op could be a damn troll man.

----------


## presence

> To many bs ones, that I can't even stand. But again, until states use their 10th amendment rights to change things, I have to follow the laws just as you or anyone else does.


yessah

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Violent gang here in town years ago. My father put one of em in jail and they decided they would try to kill his entire family which means me. An officer caught wind of this from an informant and was able to catch them two blocks down from my house in the nick of time. I was playing in the front yard.
> 
> I am not a fan of drug laws either, but I recognize that you have no choice but to enforce them. Id rather have police who reluctantly enforce bad laws and respect the constitutional rights of citizens than those who enforce 
> bad laws with zeal and ignore those rights.
> 
> These ridiculous little $#@!s take their hatred of the drug laws out on you, because they are too $#@!ing stupid to see that you are the kind of cop that we need more of.
> 
> I thank you for sharing. Don't let these little pricks run you off.
> 
> ...




I'm glad that they managed to catch the violent gang responsible, a lot of people don't realize that, this is what cops have to put up with on a daily basis, threats to our lives and the lives of our family members. I can also see the perspective of someone who hates me because I have to follow the stupid drug laws in this country, again, If I had the choice, I'd ignore all of it. It's not like I want to see people going to jail for smoking something that grows in nature.

----------


## Petar

> Violent gang here in town years ago. My father put one of em in jail and they decided they would try to kill his entire family which means me. An officer caught wind of this from an informant and was able to catch them two blocks down from my house in the nick of time. I was playing in the front yard.
> 
> I am not a fan of drug laws either, but I recognize that you have no choice but to enforce them. Id rather have police who reluctantly enforce bad laws and respect the constitutional rights of citizens than those who enforce 
> bad laws with zeal and ignore those rights.
> 
> These ridiculous little $#@!s take their hatred of the drug laws out on you, because they are too $#@!ing stupid to see that you are the kind of cop that we need more of.
> 
> I thank you for sharing. Don't let these little pricks run you off.
> 
> ...


Ha, maybe your dad shouldn't have chosen the gang-banger lifestyle!

----------


## Thor

> @thor If I'm in my personal vehicle, I can't pull over anyone over. If I see a statie doing it, I can't pull them over due to jurisdiction crap, here is how the order works for those of you that don't know. Sheriff--Statie--Local. Most of the time I will rarely ever see another local doing over the speed limit, especially that high over.


You can't pull them over, but can report them, yes?  So if you see someone outside your jurisdiction, or above you, breaking the law, then it is just too bad?  Interesting.

----------


## QuickZ06

> I am not a fan of drug laws either, but I recognize that you have no choice but to enforce them. *Id rather have police who reluctantly enforce bad laws and respect the constitutional rights of citizens.*

----------


## Fivezeroes

> It was his opinion on the interwebz, and you want him to show someone over the internet respect? The op said he wants to be anonymous, we don't even know WHO in the hell to respect in the first place!! You been drinkin in a few tonight, fluoride in the water? Really man why are you letting a post get you that worked up. The op could be a damn troll man.




I want to remain anonymous because I don't need people reporting some of my posting habits to my chief. And if I were to post an image of my badge it has both my number and the PD I work for plain as day.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You can't pull them over, but can report them, yes?  So if you see someone outside your jurisdiction, or above you, breaking the law, then it is just too bad?  Interesting.



Even if you report a statie or another cop from another city, they get off. Most tips come in anonymously and most turn out to be pranks. So the SGT on duty taking the calls doesn't always follow up. Don't ask me why, it's one of those mysteries that may never get solved.

----------


## QuickZ06

> I want to remain anonymous because I don't need people reporting some of my posting habits to my chief. And if I were to post an image of my badge it has both my number and the PD I work for plain as day.


If you feel you are doing nothing wrong then why hide? You really think because you have an opinion on the internet that you need to hide yourself anonymously, no first amendment right for officers? What kinda _free_ country are we living in when you cannot even have an opinion on the internet without getting in trouble?

----------


## Thor

> Even if you report a statie or another cop from another city, they get off. Most tips come in anonymously and most turn out to be pranks. So the SGT on duty taking the calls doesn't always follow up. Don't ask me why, it's one of those mysteries that may never get solved.


Oh, I did not mean to do it anonymously.  I meant to call it in identifying yourself.  I mean, if it is reckless driving, it is reckless driving, right?  Why would you even think of being anonymous about it?

But as you said, most get off....  because it is a revenue scheme, right?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> If you feel you are doing nothing wrong then why hide? You really think because you have an opinion on the internet that you need to hide yourself anonymously, no first amendment right for officers? What kinda _free_ country are we living in when you cannot even have an opinion on the internet without getting in trouble?



Because basically what I'm doing up here is what's considered sharing department secrets, which is a no no. We can have opinions, just if they happen to do damage to the department, well, that's when things get sticky.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Oh, I did not mean to do it anonymously.  I meant to call it in identifying yourself.  I mean, if it is reckless driving, it is reckless driving, right?  Why would you even think of being anonymous about it?
> 
> But as you said, most get off....  because it is a revenue scheme, right?



All calls are handled anonymous, unless it's a 911 call. I'm not a SGT yet, so I am going by hear-say, so if I'm wrong I apologize. When the desk SGT gets the call and they handle massive calls a day, they take down the information but nothing more.  Again, I could be wrong.

----------


## tod evans

> Ha, maybe your dad shouldn't have chosen the gang-banger lifestyle!


His "father" is the lowest form of life on the planet...........A prosecutor.

Given my druthers every one of 'em would be disemboweled on the public square..

----------


## Fivezeroes

> His "father" is the lowest form of life on the planet...........A prosecutor.
> 
> Given my druthers every one of 'em would be disemboweled on the public square..



Wow, I never thought that I'd meet someone who had a more hated profession than mine.... You guys are ruthless.

----------


## Red Green

> I am not a fan of drug laws either, but I recognize that you have no choice but to enforce them. Id rather have police who reluctantly enforce bad laws and respect the constitutional rights of citizens than those who enforce 
> bad laws with zeal and ignore those rights.


He does have a choice and he has made his choice.  He is not absolved by being a less-worse pig than the next guy.  He can choose to not enforce laws that he cannot justify in his mind

Let me ask you something here: let's say you're a salesman and your boss tells you to sell something that you believe is a product that is inferior and potentially dangerous to those people you are selling it to.  Are you going to just keep selling it or are you going to do the right thing and refuse, even if that means getting fired?  It might surprise you but those of us who actually work in the real world get faced with ethical dilemmas from time to time and the right thing to do can often mean a real ding in your career or searching for a new job.  The reason this country is so $#@!ed up is because people refuse to do the right thing.  There are the people who really just don't $#@!ing care and that describes a lot of pigs, but then there are the people who do care and just go along to get along, thereby enabling the worst of our society to drag us down into the muck.  Zeros here has a choice.  He makes it everyday.  Maybe tomorrow he'll make the right choice.    





> These ridiculous little $#@!s take their hatred of the drug laws out on you, because they are too $#@!ing stupid to see that you are the kind of cop that we need more of.
> 
> I thank you for sharing. Don't let these little pricks run you off.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee


No, you've got it all backwards: I really do hate cops.  Laws are just words on paper until someone decides that they have a meaning that enables them to exert force on peaceful people.  It's like the difference between being bigoted and hating Jews and deciding that because you hate Jews you have the right to march them into death camps.  We have lots of laws that are BS and if no one would enforce them ( and that goes from the pigs to the clowns in robes to the juries who refuse to nullify) they would just be words on paper that nobody cared about.

----------


## QuickZ06

> Because basically what I'm doing up here is what's considered sharing department secrets, which is a no no. We can have opinions, just if they happen to do damage to the department, well, that's when things get sticky.


Secrets from who the mudanes whom you work for? I would love to know what you guys are really up too, awful lot of shiny drones you guys are getting. Just another bad toy attached to a bunch of bad laws. But I guess you good folks will just _have_ to enforce them to keep the _weak_ protected and the "bad guys" away.

----------


## Thor

> All calls are handled anonymous, unless it's a 911 call. I'm not a SGT yet, so I am going by hear-say, so if I'm wrong I apologize. When the desk SGT gets the call and they handle massive calls a day, they take down the information but nothing more.  Again, I could be wrong.


Seems like it is a bit of an "above the law" situation.  I mean, if even you can't get another policeman from speeding by reporting it, then who do they answer to, if it is in fact a safety issue and reckless driving.  I thought you posted earlier that you (and all cops) are civilians just like the rest of us....  strange indeed.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Secrets from who the mudanes whom you work for? I would love to know what you guys are really up too, awful lot of shiny drones you guys are getting. Just another bad toy attached to a bunch of bad laws. But I guess you good folks will just _have_ to enforce them to keep the _weak_ protected and the "bad guys" away.




We don't have any drones, please don't compare my department to NYPD or LAPD. No secrets like what I have shared about how I let more people go with warnings or about how I've even tossed a joint I found in a car. Believe it or not, I'm not one of the cops out there, that feels like making your life a living hell.

----------


## coastie

> If you feel you are doing nothing wrong then why hide? You really think because you have an opinion on the internet that you need to hide yourself anonymously, no first amendment right for officers? *What kinda free country are we living in when you cannot even have an opinion on the internet without getting in trouble?*


As long as it's _"free"_ enough for him to "earn" a paycheck from the "not so free" parts, that's enough for him. *The law's the law, you know*. Gotta put food on the table, you know. _Somebody_ has to enforce the laws, you know...except for the _bull$#@!_ one's, that he decides on a whim, depending highly upon who is around at the moment.

----------


## tod evans

> Wow, I never thought that I'd meet someone who had a more hated profession than mine.... You guys are ruthless.


Federal prosecutors are the dredges in the very bottom of the barrel, state prosecutors are the layer of scum that float just above them........Some actually ripen to the point of dredges before they die...

I don't think you'll find many here with any sympathy for the "upper echelons" of the "Just-Us" department...

----------


## Slutter McGee

> He does have a choice and he has made his choice.  He is not absolved by being a less-worse pig than the next guy.  He can choose to not enforce laws that he cannot justify in his mind
> 
> Let me ask you something here: let's say you're a salesman and your boss tells you to sell something that you believe is a product that is inferior and potentially dangerous to those people you are selling it to.  Are you going to just keep selling it or are you going to do the right thing and refuse, even if that means getting fired?  It might surprise you but those of us who actually work in the real world get faced with ethical dilemmas from time to time and the right thing to do can often mean a real ding in your career or searching for a new job.  The reason this country is so $#@!ed up is because people refuse to do the right thing.  There are the people who really just don't $#@!ing care and that describes a lot of pigs, but then there are the people who do care and just go along to get along, thereby enabling the worst of our society to drag us down into the muck.  Zeros here has a choice.  He makes it everyday.  Maybe tomorrow he'll make the right choice.    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you've got it all backwards: I really do hate cops.  Laws are just words on paper until someone decides that they have a meaning that enables them to exert force on peaceful people.  It's like the difference between being bigoted and hating Jews and deciding that because you hate Jews you have the right to march them into death camps.  We have lots of laws that are BS and if no one would enforce them ( and that goes from the pigs to the clowns in robes to the juries who refuse to nullify) they would just be words on paper that nobody cared about.



I'm not going to respond other than to say that your constant use of the word pig directly at a man who has been polite honest and open to debate makes it clear that you are a jackass of the highest order with an intelligence approximately equal to that of a small rodent.

Let me make this clear. It is not your opinion that I am offended by. Its your terminology. I may call half the people here $#@!s, and $#@!tards, and dicks, and all kinds of other $#@!. But I don't do it over their occupation, especially when the seem to be a stand up guy to sit here and take all your bull$#@! without calling you out for what you are.

A sad pathetic excuse for an individual, who let's their hatred of an occupation get in the way of common $#@!ing decency.

You should be ashamed. Not because you hate cops. But because you insist on being disrespectful to somebody that is trying to have a rational $#@!ing conversation.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Seems like it is a bit of an "above the law" situation.  I mean, if even you can't get another policeman from speeding by reporting it, then who do they answer to, if it is in fact a safety issue and reckless driving.  I thought you posted earlier that you (and all cops) are civilians just like the rest of us....  strange indeed.


I'm sure that they see the gps records as all police cars are equipped with them, so they show the speed limit that someone is going. I'm not sure how that is handled internally.  I do the speed limit, no more than 10mph over. Unless I'm headed to a scene and if I am my lights are on and I'm booking it. I can only offer you guys a glimpse into how I handle things personally.

BTW, I've been pulled over and ticketed in my own personal vehicle, even though the cop from another local dep, knew I was also a cop.

----------


## presence

> Because basically what I'm doing up here is what's considered sharing department secrets, which is a no no. We can have opinions, just if they happen to do damage to the department, well, that's when things get sticky.


So do you proxy?  Tor?  Or could someone with admin access quickly dox you naked if so inclined?  


Not that I do, or would know how to do, that type of thing.


food for thought



You have the right to remain silent.

----------


## VoluntaryAmerican

_Vices are those acts by which a man harms himself or his property.

Crimes are those acts by which one man harms the person or property of another.

Vices are simply the errors which a man makes in his search after his own happiness. Unlike crimes, they imply no malice toward others, and no interference with their persons or property.

In vices, the very essence of crime --- that is, the design to injure the person or property of another --- is wanting.

It is a maxim of the law that there can be no crime without a criminal intent; that is, without the intent to invade the person or property of another. But no one ever practises a vice with any such criminal intent. He practises his vice for his own happiness solely, and not from any malice toward others.

Unless this clear distinction between vices and crimes be made and recognized by the laws, there can be on earth no such thing as individual right, liberty, or property; no such things as the right of one man to the control of his own person and property, and the corresponding and coequal rights of another man to the control of his own person and property.

For a government to declare a vice to be a crime, and to punish it as such, is an attempt to falsify the very nature of things. It is as absurd as it would be to declare truth to be falsehood, or falsehood truth.


_

http://www.lysanderspooner.org/VicesAreNotCrimes.htm

----------


## Fivezeroes

> As long as it's _"free"_ enough for him to "earn" a paycheck from the "not so free" parts, that's enough for him. *The law's the law, you know*. Gotta put food on the table, you know. _Somebody_ has to enforce the laws, you know...except for the _bull$#@!_ one's, that he decides on a whim, depending highly upon who is around at the moment.



Do you have a kid that relies on you coastie? You'd be amazed at what you would do, just for your kids alone. No matter how much you don't agree with something. Lets offer this scenario, say you had no job, every day you had no job, your bill got further and further behind, you started running out of basic necessities like food, your water and electric get shut off. You get a foreclosure notice stating the bank is going to foreclose in 30 days if you don't have your mortgage caught up. Again, remember you have a little 7 year old that relies on you for everything, your wife is dead, your sons grandparents are dead, so there is no one there to help him but you. 

You get offered the job to become a cop or do you look at your son and tell him, I'm sorry buddy, daddy is so much of a pompous $#@! that he would rather see you in the hands of the state and in foster care, than to put aside his pride and be a cop. There isn't a $#@!ing parent out there that would choose the they'd rather see their kid in foster care.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So do you proxy?  Tor?  Or could someone with admin access quickly dox you naked if so inclined?  
> 
> 
> Not that I do, or would know how to do, that type of thing.
> 
> 
> food for thought
> 
> 
> ...




They could get my ip, but they'd never get my name. They would know which city, I'm in but just because I live in said city doesn't mean I work for that cities PD.

----------


## Red Green

> I'm not going to respond other than to say that your constant use of the word pig directly at a man who has been polite honest and open to debate makes it clear that you are a jackass of the highest order with an intelligence approximately equal to that of a small rodent.
> 
> Let me make this clear. It is not your opinion that I am offended by. Its your terminology. I may call half the people here $#@!s, and $#@!tards, and dicks, and all kinds of other $#@!. But I don't do it over their occupation, especially when the seem to be a stand up guy to sit here and take all your bull$#@! without calling you out for what you are.


So let me get this straight: people who say things you disagree with should be called "$#@!s, and $#@!tards and dicks" but a guy who admits to throwing people in a cage for no good reason and getting paid for it should be treated with respect?  

Is it me or are you deranged?

I have some choice descriptions for the $#@! banksters on Wall Street too; is that out of line, or does your indignation begin and end with your police fetish?




> A sad pathetic excuse for an individual, who let's their hatred of an occupation get in the way of common $#@!ing decency.
> 
> You should be ashamed. Not because you hate cops. But because you insist on being disrespectful to somebody that is trying to have a rational $#@!ing conversation.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee


We're having a conversation and I am being as respectful as his occupation affords him.  If he was getting paid for sex I would refer to him as a Man-Whore, because that's a perfectly good description for a prostitute.  And keep in mind I actually do have respect for prostitutes.

----------


## QuickZ06

> We don't have any drones, please don't compare my department to NYPD or LAPD. No secrets like what I have shared about how I let more people go with warnings or about how I've even tossed a joint I found in a car. Believe it or not, I'm not one of the cops out there, that feels like making your life a living hell.


You might not have any drones, yet....but those chiefs sure do like em!

----------


## presence

Man driving new off the lot BMW 5 Series, suit and tie, pretty blonde wife in passenger seat.  Pulled over doing 95 in the fast lane of newly paved interstate.  Bloody kid in a car seat; mauled by dog.  5 miles to the ER.  

What's the right thing to do?
What actually happens?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You might not have any drones, yet....but those chiefs sure do like em!




Not my chief. he hasn't accepted any of that funding from DHS. So that has to tell you something.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Man driving new off the lot BMW 5 Series, suit and tie, pretty blonde wife in passenger seat.  Pulled over doing 95 in the fast lane of newly paved interstate.  Bloody kid in a car seat; mauled by dog.  5 miles to the ER.  
> 
> What's the right thing to do?
> What actually happens?



The right thing to do is give you a police escort to the hospital, same as if you were doing those speeds to get a woman in labor to the hospital. Most cops will actually give you an escort, not only that they will have dispatch call ahead to the hospital t let them know to be expecting you.

----------


## satchelmcqueen

i wasnt going to comment but i suppose i will.

i have a best friend who joined the force in miami because he also wanted to make a difference. he lasted 4 months and then decided to quit because of all of the corruption. he saw that no one would stick together and do right in most all instances. he was horribly let down and disgusted.

i have a first cousin who has been a cop for about 6 yrs. i can honestly say that he is a good cop. he is honest but is now regretting getting into the job. he also claims corruptions that he cant do anything about except butt heads with his boss. the sheriffs friend, beat his wife (friends wife) to the point of almost killing her. my cousin was called to the scene to take a report and control the call. as he was getting the story and about to arrest the man, the sheriff showed up and told my cousin to not write the report, but to instead leave and he would finish the call. my cousin said no, and in short had to quit the county position in turn to work for the city because of all the backlash from within for not turning his head. he even had a few cops show up at his house at 1am to have a chat with him. they took him from his home on a ride to which cousins wife called his dad. dad finds them all in a cop car and threatens the cops and makes them let him go. 

i have thought of being a cop or maybe a patrol cop for the state, but i just cant do it because i wouldnt last and would quit the first time i saw anything corrupt. my ex wife worked ems, so i heard her laugh at how some of the cops would abuse people. she thought it was funny. of course i found out it isnt just cops that abuse their position, but also the emts do as well. lost of egos in that whole area.

as for good cops, i know a few. welcome to the boards.

----------


## presence

> Man driving new off the lot BMW 5 Series, suit  and tie, pretty blonde wife in passenger seat.  Pulled over doing 95 in  the fast lane of newly paved interstate.  Bloody kid in a car seat;  mauled by dog.  5 miles to the ER.  
> 
> What's the right thing to do?
> What actually happens?






> The right thing to do is give you a police  escort to the hospital, same as if you were doing those speeds to get a  woman in labor to the hospital. Most cops will actually give you an  escort, not only that they will have dispatch call ahead to the hospital  t let them know to be expecting you.




Dude with pants around his ass driving 92 Civic Ricer Deluxe, fat, pierced, and tatted wife in passenger seat.  Pulled over doing 95 in the fast lane of newly  paved interstate.  Bloody mixed race kid in a car seat; mauled by dog.  5 miles to  the ER.  

What's the right thing to do?
What actually happens?





Is that marijuana I smell?

----------


## mad cow

> As long as it's _"free"_ enough for him to "earn" a paycheck from the "not so free" parts, that's enough for him. *The law's the law, you know*. Gotta put food on the table, you know. _Somebody_ has to enforce the laws, you know...except for the _bull$#@!_ one's, that he decides on a whim, depending highly upon who is around at the moment.


How many years were you in the USCG again coastie?You ever ask a commercial fisherman his opinion of that occupation?
Speaking of opinions,what's your opinion of the fourth amendment?I can't count the times that armed to the teeth CG's boarded me and I have never seen a search warrant in my life.
Ah,but you probably had a wife and kid to feed...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> i wasnt going to comment but i suppose i will.
> 
> i have a best friend who joined the force in miami because he also wanted to make a difference. he lasted 4 months and then decided to quit because of all of the corruption. he saw that no one would stick together and do right in most all instances. he was horribly let down and disgusted.
> 
> i have a first cousin who has been a cop for about 6 yrs. i can honestly say that he is a good cop. he is honest but is now regretting getting into the job. he also claims corruptions that he cant do anything about except butt heads with his boss. the sheriffs friend, beat his wife (friends wife) to the point of almost killing her. my cousin was called to the scene to take a report and control the call. as he was getting the story and about to arrest the man, *the sheriff showed up and told my cousin to not write the report, but to instead leave and he would finish the call. my cousin said no*, and in short had to quit the county position in turn to work for the city because of all the backlash from within for not turning his head. he even had a few cops show up at his house at 1am to have a chat with him. they took him from his home on a ride to which cousins wife called his dad. dad finds them all in a cop car and threatens the cops and makes them let him go. 
> 
> i have thought of being a cop or maybe a patrol cop for the state, but i just cant do it because i wouldnt last and would quit the first time i saw anything corrupt. my ex wife worked ems, so i heard her laugh at how some of the cops would abuse people. she thought it was funny. of course i found out it isnt just cops that abuse their position, but also the emts do as well. lost of egos in that whole area.
> 
> as for good cops, i know a few. welcome to the boards.



Yet a lot of people up here seem to respect sheriff's more than any other LE position, even when reading stuff like this. Sounds to me like your cousin is a damn fine officer. Thanks for the welcome.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Dude with pants around his ass driving 92 Civic Ricer Deluxe, fat, pierced, and tatted wife in passenger seat.  Pulled over doing 95 in the fast lane of newly  paved interstate.  Bloody mixed race kid in a car seat; mauled by dog.  5 miles to  the ER.  
> 
> What's the right thing to do?
> What actually happens?
> 
> 
> is that marijuana I smell?



If there is someone injured in the car, whether it's a kid, or his girlfriend or him, no matter what I smell, they're getting an escort, to the hospital. Also, please don't try to trap me into racism, my son is mixed. So race has nothing to do with anything.

----------


## presence

> If there is someone injured in the car, whether it's a kid, or his girlfriend or him, no matter what I smell, they're getting an escort, to the hospital. Also, please don't try to trap me into racism, my son is mixed. So race has nothing to do with anything.



"no matter what *I* smell"


I asked you what you think should happen.  And what happens on the street.

I'm not looking to trap you into racism, its wonderful that you're not.   


You didn't answer the second part of the question this time.  Why?


Would you say on the street, 9/10 BMW rolls on with escort?  Bloody kid comes 1st.

What kind of odds does the Ricer kid get?  Same odds?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> "no matter what *I* smell"
> 
> 
> I asked you what you think should happen.  And what happens on the street.
> 
> I'm not looking to trap you into racism, its wonderful that you're not.   
> 
> 
> You didn't answer the second part of the question this time.  Why?


Because the same thing applies with the last question you asked it would be redundant to continuously answer the same question over and over. No matter what, you call in and tell them you're heading to the hospital with a badly mauled child, or adult.

----------


## Neil Desmond

> He would have the right to be presumed innocent if there wasn't video evidence showing the contrary.


Ok, what does the video evidence show?  It shows him swinging his arm & it shows the woman getting struck as a result; is every case of a person swinging their arm an someone getting struck as a result necessarily or automatically assault or battery?  Can a video show intent?  How would that be possible?

What do you think the following video shows?  Do you believe it shows gun-wielding badge-wearing maniacs murdering a man in cold blood by shooting him in his back as he just tries to walk away?

----------


## presence

Admittedly, I have German car and a pretty blonde wife... Maybe I'm the racist one.  

It'd be my expectation; "what actually happens": the Ricer kid would have to wait for an ambulance and catch up with his parents after they spoke to a judge.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Ok, what does the video evidence show?  It shows him swinging his arm & it shows the woman getting struck as a result; is every case of a person swinging their arm an someone getting struck as a result necessarily or automatically assault or battery?  Can a video show intent?  How would that be possible?
> 
> What do you think the following video shows?  Do you believe it shows gun-wielding badge-wearing maniacs murdering a man in cold blood by shooting him in his back as he just tries to walk away?



Watching that video alone, no. It would not have been justified, but watching all three which is why dash cams are there, is justifiable. I'm not sure what the suspect was holding whether it was a gun or a knife, but when he turned it at the officer, I find no fault in what he did. But again, that's after watching all 3 videos.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Maybe I'm the racist one.  It'd be my expectation; "what actually happens": the Ricer kid would have to wait for an ambulance and catch up with his parents after they spoke to a judge.




I don't know of any cop that is that heartless.

----------


## presence

> I don't know of any cop that is that heartless.






> The couple's first reaction was that of relief, 
> thinking the officer  would hear their situation 
> and offer them an escort to the hospital.  
> 
> Forget it.


http://autos.aol.com/article/man-gets-speeding-ticket-after-saving-his-baby/



keywords: ticketed for speeding to hospital  
About 189,000 results  (0.19 seconds)

----------


## Fivezeroes

> http://autos.aol.com/article/man-gets-speeding-ticket-after-saving-his-baby/
> 
> 
> 
> keywords: ticketed for speeding to hospital  
> About 189,000 results  (0.19 seconds)



Wow... I stand corrected... Canada sucks.

----------


## presence

ok next...






> Fortunately this *police brutality case* got officers fired.


http://www.policebrutality.info/2011...car-chase.html




> Defense attorneys for two former Birmingham police officers say the men want their jobs back after a *jury* this morning found them not guilty of using unreasonable force and violating the civil rights of a man arrested after a 2008 high speed chase.


http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2703810/posts



> A Jefferson County Personnel Board hearing Tuesday leads to five fired Birmingham police officers getting their jobs back.


Thoughts?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> ok next...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.policebrutality.info/2011...car-chase.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What lead up to this, this is my only thought, did he kill an officer or someone else during the chase? 




> When you start your job, you get to wear only one color, blue. You work all hours of the day and night, and on your wedding anniversary, and on Christmas, and on the day your kid is the star of Miss Hanson's Kindergarten Ballet and Recital.When there are explosions, gun shots, or screams, you run toward them. You must love children, even those shooting at you. You have to be able to separate a knife-wielding husband from his pistol-wielding wife, with no injury to anyone. Then when you arrest one, the other jumps on your back and pummels you.
> People curse you, you can't curse back. People hate you, you can't hate back. You have to be an expert in criminal law, a counselor, a negotiator, perfect at crowd control, a therapist, a marksman, a hero, a psychic, an expert in race relations, be able to deliver a baby, climb a rope, scale a wall, have the analytical intelligence of Sherlock Holmes, the sensitivity of Jesus Christ, and be able to hit like George Foreman.
> 
> 
> You can never lose your temper. If you give a driver a ticket for going 55 mph in a school zone crowded with kids, the driver will demand to know why you're not chasing criminals instead of harassing respectable citizens like him. If you chase a criminal, and he pulls a gun, and you shoot him, it's your fault. And sometimes you're sued.
> If you chase a madman who's driving a car, and there's a crash, it's always your fault. If you don't believe it's your fault, just listen to the television news and read the newspaper reports and they'll set you straight.
> 
> If you pursue, and wrestle, and handcuff, and arrest an armed robber, and get bruised and bloodied, and forget to dot an "i" or cross a "t", a judge, a panel of judges, or a whole court of judges will tell you it's your fault and release a dangerous criminal back into the community.
> 
> ...



The quoted text is 100% true. I've delivered a baby, that was horrifying.

----------


## FrancisMarion

> I have a question for you.  What is your opinion on the charge of disorderly conduct?


Please?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Please?



In some cases it's called for in others like if someone is pissed you wrote them a ticket for speeding, then no, it's not called for. It all depends on the situation.

----------


## presence

> What lead up to this, this is my only thought, did he kill an officer or someone else during the chase? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The quoted text is 100% true. I've delivered a baby, that was horrifying.



He swerved and struck an officer during the chase, accidental/on purpose not certain; non fatal.  Full video available on youtube keyword.


Once a man is 



> "apparently unconscious"


http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/09/...olice_ind.html
what difference does it make what he did?






Funny, you bring up delivering babies, I caught my son and clipped the cord during our homebirth; that was beautiful.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> He swerved and struck an officer during the chase, accidental/on purpose not certain; non fatal.  Full video available on youtube keyword.
> 
> 
> Once a man is 
> 
> http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/09/...olice_ind.html
> what difference does it make what he did?
> 
> 
> ...



Remember how I said some cops like to take revenge if another officer is injured by a suspect? That is what happened in this video, it was all revenge. Was it right, no, does it happen, yea. Sadly it does. 

Yea, but in a home birth, your wife or significant other is in a tub full of warm water, you don't have blood and after birth splattering you in the face. Just kind of horrifying when you're doing it on the side of the road.

----------


## FrancisMarion

> In some cases it's called for in others like if someone is pissed you wrote them a ticket for speeding, then no, it's not called for. It all depends on the situation.


I disagree.  D.O is another word for disrespecting of LEO.  If it was anything other than that the more specific charges would be prescribed.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I disagree.  D.O is another word for disrespecting of LEO.  If it was anything other than that the more specific charges would be prescribed.


Not always, take an irrational drunk for example, he's walking down the street, clearly drunk in public. He starts harassing people just because he is in that state, something he normally wouldn't do, but because alcohol severely impairs him he does it anyway. That is disorderly conduct (which is where this law would apply). As much as I'm disrespected daily, the only times I have ever arrested someone for D.O. is when they've been a public nuisance, like said drunk. 

I'm sure there may very well be other LEO out there that hand out DO tickets left and right and even arrests, but I'm not one of them.

----------


## FrancisMarion

Harassment.  Please elaborate.

----------


## presence

> Yea, but in a home birth, your wife or significant other is in a tub full of warm water, you don't have blood and after birth splattering you in the face. Just kind of horrifying when you're doing it on the side of the road.


I can assure you that no matter where a woman gives birth there is going to be a substantial amount of blood and meconuim to tend with; and most often at home, like in the hospital, birth occurs on dry land.    Sitz baths are usually reserved for after birth recovery; water births are a small subset of alternative/home birthing methods.




> Remember how I said some cops like to take revenge if another officer is  injured by a suspect? That is what happened in this video, it was all  revenge. Was it right, no, does it happen, yea. Sadly it does.


we know


Thread: Police Abuse
Thread: Police shoot dog

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Harassment.  Please elaborate.


Harassing as in verbal threats, throwing objects, etc. That type of harassment. Had he been on his own property, I wouldn't have cared one bit. But, this guy was quite literally walking down the street, threatening physical abuse and throwing rocks and stuff at people who had done nothing to him.

----------


## FrancisMarion

> Harassing as in verbal threats, throwing objects, etc. That type of harassment. Had he been on his own property, I wouldn't have cared one bit. But, this guy was quite literally walking down the street, threatening physical abuse and throwing rocks and stuff at people who had done nothing to him.


Throwing rocks is assault.  The other is the freedom of speech.

----------


## presence

Crime Stoppers: Man Gets Ticket for Laughing Out Loud 
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/sty...aughing-matter



> The story of a 42-year-old man from Long Island who faces prison time for laughing too loud appears to be related to bullying.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I can assure you that no matter where a woman gives birth there is going to be a substantial amount of blood and meconuim to tend with; and most often at home, like in the hospital, birth occurs on dry land.    Sitz baths are usually reserved for after birth recovery; water births are a small subset of alternative/home birthing methods.
> 
> 
> 
> we know
> 
> 
> Thread: Police Abuse
> Thread: Police shoot dog



I've only ever seen home births on TLC -- but when helping someone give birth on the side of the road while waiting for the medics to get there, now that's nightmarish. Don't get me wrong, I watched my wife, god rest her soul, give birth to our son. I can watch that all day long, but to be thrown into the thick of it, it's completely different.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Throwing rocks is assault.  The other is the freedom of speech.



Not according to stupid state laws.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Crime Stoppers: Man Gets Ticket for Laughing Out Loud 
> http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/sty...aughing-matter



Again you post something from New Jersey, everyone knows that those pricks up there think they're above the law.

----------


## Natural Citizen

We live in a college town. The only exposure I ever have to police officers (officially, that is) are the normal DUI checkpoints. It always ends the same way. My turn comes up and the first question is always "where you headed tonight sir?" My usual response is "anywhere I please. Am I free to go?" I always get to go. Works...

----------


## presence

> Again you post something from New Jersey, everyone knows that those pricks up there think they're above the law.


The one before was Birmingham, AL... I thought I was providing a rainbow.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> We live in a college town. The only exposure I ever have to police officers (officially, that is) are the normal DUI checkpoints. It always ends the same way. My turn comes up and the first question is always "where you headed tonight sir?" My usual response is "anywhere I please. Am I free to go?" I always get to go. Works...


You don't have to answer that question, just say with all due respect, I choose to exercise my right to remain silent and then add am I free to go. You also don't have to answer the question have you been drinking or how much have you had to drink tonight.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> The one before was Birmingham, AL... I thought I was providing a rainbow.



Yea, but the one where the guy faces jail time for laughing too loud from his own home. That right there is a NJ thing. I don't know of any other municipality that has such a dumbass law on the books.

----------


## FrancisMarion

> Not according to stupid state laws.


I commend you for your level head and your efforts to answer all these questions. 

I leave you with this:




> § 18.2-415. Disorderly conduct in public places.
> 
> A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with the intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
> 
> A. In any street, highway, public building, or while in or on a public conveyance, or public place engages in conduct having a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, such conduct is directed; or
> 
> B. Willfully or being intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts any funeral, memorial service, or meeting of the governing body of any political subdivision of this Commonwealth or a division or agency thereof, or of any school, literary society or place of religious worship, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the funeral, memorial service, or meeting or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed; or
> 
> C. Willfully or while intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts the operation of any school or any activity conducted or sponsored by any school, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the operation or activity or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed.
> ...


HEARSAY.

----------


## presence

> My turn comes up and the first question is always "where you headed tonight sir?" My usual response is "anywhere I please. Am I free to go?" I always get to go. Works...



_Where are you headed sir_

"Do you recycle?"  

_Excuse me_

"Can you recommend any disabled childrens charities?"  

_Roll down your window_

"Can I get one of those PBA stickers?"
_
Have you consumed any alcohol this evening_

"Does your cruiser have a supercharger in it?"

....


Takes a little longer... But, I always get to go too.  Much more fun.

----------


## presence

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for long, long year
Stolen many a man's soul and faith





> Yea, but the one where the guy faces jail time for laughing too loud from his own home. That right there is a NJ thing. I don't know of any other municipality that has such a dumbass law on the books.


Pensacola, FL  
Crime to be in city limits without $10 on your person.

http://www.stupidlaws.com/laws/unite...ida/pensacola/

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I commend you for your level head and your efforts to answer all these questions. 
> 
> I leave you with this:
> 
> 
> 
> HEARSAY.



Interesting.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Pensacola, FL  
> Crime to be in city limits without $10 on your person.
> 
> http://www.stupidlaws.com/laws/unite...ida/pensacola/



LOL... Okay, that's a ridiculous.

----------


## Mach

Fivezeroes, are you related to "Andy Griffith"?

----------


## Red Green

> _Where are you headed sir_
> 
> "Do you recycle?"  
> 
> _Excuse me_
> 
> "Can you recommend any disabled childrens charities?"  
> 
> _Roll down your window_
> ...


Awesome!

----------


## Red Green

> You don't have to answer that question,* just say with all due respect*, I choose to exercise my right to remain silent and then add am I free to go. You also don't have to answer the question have you been drinking or how much have you had to drink tonight.


How much respect does a Nazi jackboot deserve?  Some ass-clown with a badge violates a person's rights and he's expecting exactly what amount of respect?

----------


## aGameOfThrones

Thoughts on Derek Williams?

----------


## Neil Desmond

I have another question for you: do you believe the Popular Mechanics argument (i.e., the "official story") about what happened on 9/11/2001 with the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the flights on that day?

----------


## BAllen

> How much respect does a Nazi jackboot deserve?  Some ass-clown with a badge violates a person's rights and he's expecting exactly what amount of respect?


 Get real. He's telling you how to respond, and you're bitching about it as if your snivel rights have been violated. Get over it, and play the game. Play a role. Is that so hard? Or, you could be stubborn and get in trouble. Then it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're looking for a police state, you over-react, you get arrested. The choice is yours.

----------


## Red Green

> Get real. He's telling you how to respond, and you're bitching about it as if your snivel rights have been violated. Get over it, and play the game. Play a role. Is that so hard? Or, you could be stubborn and get in trouble. Then it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy.* You're looking for a police state, you over-react, you get arrested.* The choice is yours.


Correction: I'm looking *at* a police state, not for one.

This guy can talk about respect all he wants, but as long as he's acting like a $#@!ing stormtrooper, he deserves nothing but disdain.  I am very respectful to people, but stopping me under the color of law for no good reason is very disrespectful to me, the guy who is forced to pay his $#@!ing salary.  Respect my ass.

----------


## Thor

00000,

I saw your position on suicide, so I assume the attitude is similar here, but I will ask anyway:

Seat belts

Do you feel it is the responsibility of the nanny state to tell a driver they must be buckled, or issue a ticket if they are not?  Do seat belts have save lives?  Sure, in some cases.  But should I be forced into wearing one for my own safety, or should I have the right to make decisions for myself when it involves my own safety? 

Again, by and large another revenue scheme.  There are seat belt ticket quotas, and the whole "click it or ticket" campaigns let you know when the fundraising time is, just like public TV / radio.

----------


## presence

Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with all of these non-criminal statutory regulations if they were strictly considered as aggravating circumstances in real, point-to-victim-and-harm crimes rather than stand alone "just doing my job"  shakedown offences in and of themselves.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Thoughts on Derek Williams?



My thoughts are it's messed up what happened to this guy, I'm trying to figure out why the officer, before he ever went to the supervisors car, why he didn't call for medical transport for this guy.


@red there is no getting through to you, all it takes is one officer having a wild hair up his ass that night and you're getting pulled from the car, face slammed into the hood, all because you've just given them probable cause. I'm just telling you how to handle it not only from an officers position, but, also from what a defense attorney will tell you too. 


@Neil I try not to pay attention to any of that stuff involving 9/11, while I do find a lot of it incredibly strange, them removing the bomb sniffing dogs days earlier, I just, try not to think about our government killing 3000 people just to go start a war for oil. 


@thor The way I look at seat belts is this, if you want to die in a wreck cause you didn't wear one, so be it. I don't have time to babysit you and make sure you buckle up.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Fivezeroes, are you related to "Andy Griffith"?



If I was, I don't think I'd be a cop, I'd be a movie star or something, that mad had a lot of pull.

----------


## Thor

> @Neil I try not to pay attention to any of that stuff involving 9/11, while I do find a lot of it incredibly strange, them removing the bomb sniffing dogs days earlier, I just, try not to think about our government killing 3000 people just to go start a war for oil. 
> 
> @thor The way I look at seat belts is this, if you want to die in a wreck cause you didn't wear one, so be it. I don't have time to babysit you and make sure you buckle up.


Regarding seat belts, good to know, because lots of cops love to ticket for that. Even when you are doing 15 - 20 MPH in a 20 MPH zone.  

Regarding 9/11, it is really hard to believe our government could have done it, and I still have not decided one way or the other; but IF it happened the way some think (our government) it wasn't just about oil, it was a big step to the "police state" with the Patriot Act, TSA, etc... 

Interesting movie:  http://www.anoblelie.com/




Watch that (the full movie, not just the trailer) if you get a chance.

----------


## mrsat_98

> Regarding 9/11, it is really hard to believe our government could have done it, and I still have not decided one way or the other; but IF it happened the way some think (our government) it wasn't just about oil, it was a big step to the "police state" with the Patriot Act, TSA, etc... .


http://septemberclues.info/   watch this and you will have a better understanding of what did not happen on 9/11

----------


## Red Green

> @red there is no getting through to you, all it takes is one officer having a wild hair up his ass that night and you're getting pulled from the car, face slammed into the hood, *all because you've just given them probable cause.* I'm just telling you how to handle it not only from an officers position, but, also from what a defense attorney will tell you too.


Really, tell me what probable cause I have provided them with?  Not being extra nice to the Nazi pig?  I'm thinking I need to have a video device running and yeah if the pig goes all Rodney King on me, I'm getting a payday.

----------


## Red Green

> Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with all of these non-criminal statutory regulations if they were strictly considered as aggravating circumstances in real, point-to-victim-and-harm crimes rather than stand alone "just doing my job"  shakedown offences in and of themselves.


I think the seatbelt issue ought to be handled as contributory negligence in a civil matter rather than anything a pig has anything to do with.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Really, tell me what probable cause I have provided them with?  Not being extra nice to the Nazi pig?  I'm thinking I need to have a video device running and yeah if the pig goes all Rodney King on me, I'm getting a payday.



The probable cause you've given them is being an uncooperative dick, all it takes is for one of them to lie and say "you know what, I smell something in your vehicle" and again, you get dragged out of your car and they get away with it. Stop being so damn stubborn and accept the goddamn advice I'm trying to give you. Believe it or not I'm trying to save you from being one of those that gets their heads slammed into a car or the concrete by a cop having a bad day, cause he has to pull check point duty.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Really, tell me what probable cause I have provided them with?  Not being extra nice to the Nazi pig?  I'm thinking I need to have a video device running and yeah if the pig goes all Rodney King on me, *I'm getting a payday*.


Your family_ may_ get it. You may have missed my page of cops executing people? Don't tempt them. Be respectful but assert your rights and by all means don't say anything stupid. First and foremost though, avoid them as much as possible. Unless you have money? This is coming from someone whose credit is still $#@!ed and someone who is tired of cops they've never seen somehow knowing their name. It isn't worth it. [and the evidence will be sabotaged unconsequentially]

----------


## bolil

And make sure any recording devices you use have the ability to live stream.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> The probable cause you've given them is being an uncooperative dick,* all it takes is for one of them to lie and say "you know what, I smell something in your vehicle" and again, you get dragged out of your car and they get away with it.* Stop being so damn stubborn and accept the goddamn advice I'm trying to give you. Believe it or not I'm trying to save you from being one of those that gets their heads slammed into a car or the concrete by a cop having a bad day, cause he has to pull check point duty.


And cops have the nerve to ask me why I don't like them? [not you, but personally]

----------


## Fivezeroes

> And cops have the nerve to ask me why I don't like them? [not you, but personally]


I did say that there were bad apple cops, some will lie just for the hell of it. Which is why I'm trying to offer friendly advice.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> *I did say that there were bad apple cops, some will lie just for the hell of it. Which is why I'm trying to offer friendly advice.*


And I do thank you. I really hope people take heed to it.

----------


## Origanalist

Imagine that, Officer Friendly right here on RPF's.

----------


## The Northbreather

Huh, this whole time I didn't realize that we had a live one in here. Please let me join in the conversation gentlemen if you would so kindly.

$#@! THE POLICE.

I just got a ticket for the NON-CRIME of holding my phone in my hand while driving 5-10 mph on a rural road. ( wasn't talking on it I had just picked it up off the dash)

The little piggy even asked me if I had my dogs strapped in properly (which I didn't answer after I knew a ticket was coming).

Give me a $#@!ing break. Writing cell phone tickets and stalking stop signs is a pathetic job for a true man. 

Seriously, these guys need to grow a dick and do something worthwhile with their short time on this planet. 

I'm working, creating things with my own hands and mind and this soft-handed pussy voluntarily signed up too be a stooge for the system and have a cushy job? 

I have to admit that though I had stopped answering his questions I looked into his eyes and asked _him_ if this is really what he chose to do with himself.

He gave me the old "I didn't make the law" line and I asked who I had harmed by grabbing the phone off my dash after turning.

He looked at his feet and mumbled "drive safe" and I said "that I was driving safe but *you just chose* to give me a fine for it".

At least I have some solace in the knowledge that he got a lungful of black diesel smoke as he walked back past my exhaust pipe as quite a plume tends to come out when I  start my truck with the accelerator pressed to the floor. 

*People who voluntarily worship oppression and crave to be pawns in a hierarchy are $#@!ing weird.*

Cops, special agents, spies, and most politicians fall into this group and they are the worst expression of collectivism. Go be yourself you black coated crony.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Fivezeroes,

Have you ever read The Production of Security, by Gustav de Molinari? (It's a short booklet by, would probably only be a couple hours to get through, if you read it any commentary would be appreciated).



Also, have you ever read The Law by Bastiat? (Again, if you've read it, your thoughts would be appreciated.)

It's apparent that you think highly of your department, and place blame for the enforcement of bad laws on politicians who legislate them. So where do you personally draw the line when it comes to following policies you don't agree with, and why? In other words, what is the greatest length you would go to before refusing to follow a policy, and what is the logic behind choosing that point? (If you can, please elaborate more than, say, whether something is considered constitutional or not. It's a bit of a "cop out", pardon the pun . IE: If slavery was considered constitutional would you still enforce it or would it be too far removed from your own moral code?)

You've mentioned that eventually you'd like to find another career path "when the economy picks up", or something to a similar degree. Have you considered the possibility that public faith in police, (or government institutions in general), may continue to erode before an economic recovery happens and that you may be caught in the middle of an ever widening political rift?

Have you considered, or taken, any steps today that may allow you to put yourself in a position to make that change tomorrow?

Thanks.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Huh, this whole time I didn't realize that we had a live one in here. Please let me join in the conversation gentlemen if you would so kindly.
> 
> $#@! THE POLICE.
> 
> I just got a ticket for the NON-CRIME of holding my phone in my hand while driving 5-10 mph on a rural road. ( wasn't talking on it I had just picked it up off the dash)
> 
> The little piggy even asked me if I had my dogs strapped in properly (which I didn't answer after I knew a ticket was coming).
> 
> Give me a $#@!ing break. Writing cell phone tickets and stalking stop signs is a pathetic job for a true man. 
> ...



This is what I love about this country, freedom of speech. The sad thing is you're one of those people that probably sit back see someone breaking the law and instantly question "Where are the cops at they should take care of this" or when your house gets broken into or you're robbed at gun point, you instantly call on us. We're never good enough for people until we're needed, and then you just love us to death, but, the minute you break the law, it's you're a crony, you're this, $#@! you, all of you cops suck. 

Do you honestly think we like babysitting people who decide to drive unsafe? Have you ever wondered why your local city made those laws? How was this officer supposed to know you aren't texting and driving? Have you ever been to an accident where someone was texting and driving and got themselves or someone else killed because of it? I have. These laws are in place to protect people from pulling idiotic stunts like texting and driving. Again, most people have no reason to reach for their phones while driving, he probably thought that you were one of those that had a text message coming in that you just couldn't wait til you stopped or got home to answer. Try putting yourself in his "crony" shoes and perhaps you'll understand what it's like to be him. 



@noneed, I have read neither of those, also I'm not sure how you want me to answer your question, as to how far I'll go before I'll refuse to go along with something. Especially considering if saying as long as it doesn't step on your constitutional rights would be considered a cop-out. So again, I'm not sure what sort of answer you're looking for. 

I've considered a lot of things about how public trust in the police seems to be eroding, I'm hoping the economy picks up sooner rather than later, most people think that cops just love the thought that today could be their last day on Earth, that they may not come back home tonight. Every time I put on my badge and walk out to my cruiser, I think about that probability. I have stated a ton of times, I don't do this job for fun, and I damn sure don't do it for my health.  I also know that every time I put on my uniform, I am going to become one of the most hated people on the planet. 

And yes, I am steadily putting in my resume, but, apparently my four year degree is worthless especially when someone with 2 more years of schooling applies for the same job.

----------


## devil21

> This is what I love about this country, freedom of speech. The sad thing is you're one of those people that probably sit back see someone breaking the law and instantly question "Where are the cops at they should take care of this" or when your house gets broken into or you're robbed at gun point, you instantly call on us. We're never good enough for people until we're needed, and then you just love us to death, but, the minute you break the law, it's you're a crony, you're this, $#@! you, all of you cops suck.


You must not know how we roll if you think posters here will stand around while their house is getting broken into or are robbed at gunpoint and then run to police for "help".  One of the big reasons people dislike cops is because of the impression, right or wrong (but with plenty of evidence to support), that defending oneself often ends up with the victim of the crime being the one arrested for defending themselves in some way that isn't kosher to the PTB that wrote the law.  Or their dog getting shot when someone does call the police or a myriad of other "unintended consequences".  You said yourself that you enforce the law, even if the law is bad or wrong or arbitrary.  The answer to that is to not call the police in the first place.  I won't call the police simply because it requires me to talk to a cop.

----------


## tod evans

FWIW, Ron Paul when asked if he could only recommend one book for folks to read what would it be, his answer was;The Law by Bastiat.

----------


## mport1

I don't have time to read this whole thread.  Is the cop still initiating violence against peaceful people like drug users/drug dealers?  If so, especially if he realizes that what he is doing is immoral, that is pretty awful.

----------


## newbitech

By the time the police show up, it's too late.  Better to call a friend to bring shovel and a tarp if someone is breaking into my house.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> @noneed, I have read neither of those


You really should check out those books. Neither are very long and they're utterly pertinent to your line of work. I would _definitely_ recommend reading The Law before Production of Security, though, as it will provide a framework for understanding the latter.




> FWIW, Ron Paul when asked if he could only recommend one book for folks to read what would it be, his answer was;The Law by Bastiat.


This should tell you how valuable that work is. I would highly recommend it, and they're both free to read online. And Molinari was a good friend and colleague with Bastiat... (from the Wiki Article on Bastiat: "He declared on his deathbed that his friend Gustave de Molinari (publisher of Bastiat's 1850 book The Law) was his spiritual heir.")

I'd be interested in hearing what you thought of them afterwards.




> also I'm not sure how you want me to answer your question, as to how far I'll go before I'll refuse to go along with something. Especially considering if saying as long as it doesn't step on your constitutional rights would be considered a cop-out. So again, I'm not sure what sort of answer you're looking for.


It was essentially a question about your principles, and what happens when they conflict with what you're asked to do as part of your work. You've already made some comments about conflicts between your own sense of morality and the edicts you're asked to enforce as an agent of authority.

IE: If chattel slavery were considered constitutional and legal, would you enforce it as an agent of authority even if it went against your own moral compass? What if you were in a similar situation with mouths to feed and no way around enforcing it as part of your job? Would you support slavery in this sense (not saying in your personal morality, but in your actions as an agent by which political edicts are enforced)?

These can be difficult questions but they're important ones to ask yourself.

Surely there's going to be a point where you'd refuse to follow laws that you considered immoral/bad/unnecessary/harmful etc.

Do you know where your line in the sand is? If so are there principles behind it, or is it something more arbitrary? If not, how will you know when you're crossing the line?

Thanks for the replies.

----------


## presence

> or when your house gets broken into or you're robbed at gun point, you instantly call on us.


And you'll be there an hour later if I'm lucky because you're too busy generating statutory revenue for the state.

As a carpenter when I work on a framing crew I can sweep nails off the deck and hand off tools or stand up on *the ridge beam and tack rafter ends* with my framing nailer.  Either way I get paid.

I choose the latter.  Most cops spend their time sweeping floors.  Either way they get paid more than me.




> How was this officer supposed to know you aren't texting and driving?


Who really gives a $#@!?




> idiotic stunts like texting and driving


Drinking coffee, eating a bagel, and disciplining your 3 whining kids in the back of the minivan... drive on.



> most people have no reason to reach for their phones while driving


Liberty?  

I'm sure you're perfectly competent to call it into dispatch while you drive in the other direction.  But that would make sense, because as a cop you're more competent and important than the rest of us.


> I have stated a ton of times, I don't do this job for fun, and I damn sure don't do it for my health.


Don't do me any favors.




> cops just love the thought that today could be their last day on Earth,  that they may not come back home tonight. Every time I put on my badge  and walk out to my cruiser, I think about that probability.


Pity me.  *Wear your seat belt.*   Unlike the rest of us with a state nanny, nobody is going to wipe your ass for you.




> *Occupations more dangerous than being a police officer:*  Number of deaths per 100,000 employed Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics-Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries - 2008  Fishermen: 112.0
> 
> Logging workers: 87.0
> 
> Aircraft pilots: 67.0
> 
> Iron and steelworkers: 45.0
> 
> Farmers and ranchers: 38.0
> ...

----------


## Red Green

> The probable cause you've given them is being an uncooperative dick, all it takes is for one of them to lie and say "you know what, I smell something in your vehicle" and again, you get dragged out of your car and they get away with it. Stop being so damn stubborn and accept the goddamn advice I'm trying to give you. Believe it or not I'm trying to save you from being one of those that gets their heads slammed into a car or the concrete by a cop having a bad day, cause he has to pull check point duty.


OK so let's be clear here: *I'm not providing them with any legal justification for doing anything, they're just behaving like the $#@!ing pigs I really do believe that they are*.  And yeah, I am going to have video and audio running the whole time and when there's nothing in the car and my blood test comes back with a 0.00% BAC, I'm gonna be grabbing a lawyer and putting the legal beat-down on the pig.

----------


## presence

> The probable cause you've given them is being an uncooperative dick, all  it takes is for one of them to lie and say "you know what, I smell  something in your vehicle" and again, you get dragged out of your car  and they get away with it. Stop being so damn stubborn and accept the  goddamn advice I'm trying to give you. Believe it or not I'm trying to  save you from being one of those that gets their heads slammed into a  car or the concrete by a cop having a bad day, cause he has to pull  check point duty.


That statement leaves me pondering....

subservient gimp  

or

1776 Will Commence Again

----------


## Red Green

> This is what I love about this country, freedom of speech. The sad thing is you're one of those people that probably sit back see someone breaking the law and instantly question "Where are the cops at they should take care of this" or when your house gets broken into or you're robbed at gun point, you instantly call on us. We're never good enough for people until we're needed, and then you just love us to death, but, the minute you break the law, it's you're a crony, you're this, $#@! you, all of you cops suck.


My daughter was having some issues with some other of her family members and remarked to me "I should just call the cops and that will teach the prick" to which I replied "Baby, never, ever call the cops.  You might think it will make your situation better, but it won't; it will make it worse.  Nothing good comes from having the pigs show up".

I had the call the cops in connection to the work I do because we had some fraud happen.  Basically, we need a police report for the bank and the insurance company.  I absolutely do not expect the pigs will do anything to bring the perp to justice.  But on top of that the BS I had to go through was epic.  It made the postal service look like first-classe, red carpet, JD Power award winning service by comparison.  I won't bore anyone with the details but take my word for it it was like something out of the movie Brazil.  

And if I am accosted on the street or in my house, I'm not going to reach for the phone to call 911, but rather my .45 or 12 gauge.  After it's all said and done, I will call the pigs because somebody has to pick up the bodies and I won't be making any statements.

----------


## jtap

This thread is just...wow. I'm not going to get into anything personal but I will say this:

All cops are not bad, but because some are, I have to assume that any cop is bad.


I will agree with most people here though that the underlying fact is most people who love and respect liberty wouldn't be cops. Too much of the job doesn't sit right with those principles.

----------


## Inkblots

> So while I understand why you guys have a certain distrust of us, I ask that you don't lump us all into that group. If I were like the cops you see in that video, I'd be pissed off at how many times you guys have used the word pig, and the fact that some of you even advocate mowing us down. However that is the glory of the Constitution, you can say what you want as long as it remains words, no one needs to go acting on such suggestions, no matter how bad a cop is.


There's a natural human inclination to think only in terms of groups.  Libertarians seek to fight against that, but sometimes we need to be reminded of the principle.  Thanks for this.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Imagine that, Officer Friendly right here on RPF's.



Next thing you know, he'll be doing you a favor.  

My contact with law enforcement is quite rare... but they always portray themselves as doing people favors as their write their tickets for speeding, etc.

----------


## The Northbreather

> *This is what I love about this country, freedom of speech. The sad thing is you're one of those people that probably sit back see someone breaking the law and instantly question "Where are the cops at they should take care of this" or when your house gets broken into or you're robbed at gun point, you instantly call on us.* We're never good enough for people until we're needed, and then you just love us to death, but, the minute you break the law, it's you're a crony, you're this, $#@! you, all of you cops suck.


In my life Ive had around 50 or so dealings with pigs. Number of time I asked fr help- ZERO. I was robbed at gunpiont twice before I moved but as most peolpe I learned at a young age that the police never actually help ou but they can cost you more money if you involve them




> I've considered a lot of things about how public trust in the police seems to be eroding, I'm hoping the economy picks up sooner rather than later, most people think that cops just love the thought that today could be their last day on Earth, *that they may not come back home tonight. Every time I put on my badge and walk out to my cruiser, I think about that probability.* I have stated a ton of times, I don't do this job for fun, and I damn sure don't do it for my health.  I also know that every time I put on my uniform, I am going to become one of the most hated people on the planet.


Oh nevermind you're a hero.

 Please.

Cry me a $#@!ing river. I think that I may never come back tonight every time I get pulled over. 

I think I may never come back every time I strap myself to a new piece of heavy equipment which is a hell of a lot more dangerous. Can I feel sorry for myself and be a hero too? Wait a minute I don't care cause I'm a man and I don't need the endorsement of the public or the state.

If you want to be a hero Quit right now and become an Ems or fire fighter but I'll warn you that these might actually involve some work an you may have to sweat from time to time

----------


## TheTexan

> This is what I love about this country, freedom of speech. The sad thing is you're one of those people that probably sit back see someone breaking the law and instantly question "Where are the cops at they should take care of this" or when your house gets broken into or you're robbed at gun point, you instantly call on us. We're never good enough for people until we're needed, and then you just love us to death, but, the minute you break the law, it's you're a crony, you're this, $#@! you, all of you cops suck.


I dont know about anyone else but Im not calling the cops unless there is a dead body on my floor, or my insurance requires a police report.  Even then the police would be last one I would call, after family, lawyer, dogsitter...

----------


## BAllen

> OK so let's be clear here: *I'm not providing them with any legal justification for doing anything, they're just behaving like the $#@!ing pigs I really do believe that they are*.  And yeah, I am going to have video and audio running the whole time and when there's nothing in the car and my blood test comes back with a 0.00% BAC, I'm gonna be grabbing a lawyer and putting the legal beat-down on the pig.


 If that's what you're looking for, guess what? You'll find it.

Red Green: "What are the police like, here?"
Joe: "What were they like where you left?"
Red Green: "They're all pigs!"
Joe: "So shall you find here."

----------


## The Northbreather

This is kind of fun even though I know its just a troll

----------


## The Northbreather

> *Do you honestly think we like babysitting people who decide to drive unsafe? Have you ever wondered why your local city made those laws? How was this officer supposed to know you aren't texting and driving?* Have you ever been to an accident where someone was texting and driving and got themselves or someone else killed because of it? I have. These laws are in place to protect people from pulling idiotic stunts like texting and driving. Again, most people have no reason to reach for their phones while driving, he probably thought that you were one of those that had a text message coming in that you just couldn't wait til you stopped or got home to answer. Try putting yourself in his "crony" shoes and perhaps you'll understand what it's like to


Uh,don't you guy drive around talking on your radios and looking at the computer in your front seat? 

Must have some special magic that keeps you from being unsafe like the normals. Must be that badge. pffft

----------


## jllundqu

> It's not about ancap.  It's about his own stated beliefs.
> 
> He said that the drug war is wrong and that people should be allowed to destroy their own bodies.  He then went on to say that he assaulted _otherwise_ peaceful people, because he needed to put food on the table.
> 
> If you assault someone and they resist your aggression, I don't care if you're ancap or not, that's not justification to assault them further.


You really have missed the point here... it's his JOB to enforce LAW.  If he has PC (or reasonable suspicion depending) and the suspect is not following verbal commands... the use of force is justified... period.  Stop trying to frame someone who put himself out there to answer questions and bring people together just so you can act all sanctimonious and $#@!.

----------


## jllundqu

> My badge shows my badge number as well as the PD that I work with. I don't trust anyone, including admins with that info. I'm pretty sure I have said $#@! that I shouldn't have that can get me in some serious $#@!. So I'd prefer not to, as I stated in my original post, I'm not going to tell any of you which PD I work for. Also, why would anyone claim to be a police officer knowing damn well how badly we're hated on these forums.


^THis...

There are many oathkeepers on this forum who are forced to remain anonymous for that very reason.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> You really have missed the point here... it's his JOB to enforce LAW.  If he has PC (or reasonable suspicion depending) and the suspect is not following verbal commands... the use of force is justified... period.  Stop trying to frame someone who put himself out there to answer questions and bring people together just so you can act all sanctimonious and $#@!.


To be clearer, it's his job to enforce political edicts. Political edicts which can be, and often are, perversions of The Law.

The use of force is justified _under a principle of authority, by a politicized justice system_. It's not quite as "period" as you're implying.

Or is the use of force justified to force someone into chattel slavery under a system which declares it legal? _Period_? Or use of force against those complicit in helping illegal runaway slaves escape, who choose to non-violently disobey immoral legal decrees? _Period_?




> The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are "just" because law makes them so. Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and sacred to many consciences, it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly find defenders not only among those who profit from them but also among those who suffer from them.

----------


## jllundqu

> Actually it's his job to enforce political edicts. Political edicts which can be perversions of The Law.
> 
> The use of force is justified _under a principle of authority_, _by a politicized justice system_. It's not quite as "period" as you're implying.
> 
> Or is the use of force justified to force someone into chattel slavery under a system which declares it legal? _Period_? Or use of force against those complicit in helping illegal runaway slaves escape?


Without going all ANCAP... I live in a state and county that have government legislators.  These legislators (rightly or wrongly) make a $#@! ton of laws, most of which mean nothing except to solidify institutionalized power within government.  Both jurisdictions (cities and municipaloties included) hire police officers to enforce the laws on the books.  No one argues that.  I personally have had bad encounters with police, but you know what?  Most encounters with police I had were because I was DOING SOMETHING $#@!ING ILLEGAL!  Whether you agree with "the law" or not, this is the society we live in.  The people voted for all this $#@!.  They created this bohemoth government and they line up like lemmings to have their balls squeezed by TSA.

I know a multitude of GOOD police and federal agents (mostly customs guys and gals)... I don't expect anyone on these forums to _really_ understand who or what the Oathkeepers are and what we do, but suffice it to say, there is a reason more of us don't come out and talk to RPF... it's precisely because of this thread.  AntiFederalist and I already had this conversation.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Without going all ANCAP... I live in a state and county that have government legislators.  These legislators (rightly or wrongly) make a $#@! ton of laws, most of which mean nothing except to solidify institutionalized power within government.  Both jurisdictions (cities and municipaloties included) hire police officers to enforce the laws on the books.  No one argues that.  I personally have had bad encounters with police, but you know what?  Most encounters with police I had were because I was DOING SOMETHING $#@!ING ILLEGAL!  Whether you agree with "the law" or not, this is the society we live in.  The people voted for all this $#@!.  They created this bohemoth government and they line up like lemmings to have their balls squeezed by TSA.


That's fine. I was simply pointing out that it's not "justified... period". It's not "justice" simply because political machinations declare it to be.




> I know a multitude of GOOD police and federal agents (mostly customs guys and gals)... I don't expect anyone on these forums to _really_ understand who or what the Oathkeepers are and what we do, but suffice it to say, there is a reason more of us don't come out and talk to RPF... it's precisely because of this thread.  AntiFederalist and I already had this conversation.


Alright. No need to get worked up on me about this. I'm not sure why you're addressing me with this because I don't have a problem with individual police officers, unless they are abusive or commit criminal acts (there's a lot of those out there, too). Even dividing people into "good' or "bad" in that sense is kind of ridiculous, imo. People are complex, and run on self-interest, and we have all sorts of social institutions that are built on all sorts of bad ideas. I get that. I have a problem with institutions, not so much individuals unless they prove themselves worth having a problem over. I haven't called anyone names in this thread or anything. The OP seems pretty reasonable, and I feel I've also been pretty reasonable in this thread. If you can point me to where I have been otherwise I'm open to taking the possibility that I wasn't into consideration.

----------


## Darguth

> Without going all ANCAP... I live in a state and county that have government legislators.  These legislators (rightly or wrongly) make a $#@! ton of laws, most of which mean nothing except to solidify institutionalized power within government.  Both jurisdictions (cities and municipaloties included) hire police officers to enforce the laws on the books.  No one argues that.  I personally have had bad encounters with police, but you know what?  Most encounters with police I had were because I was DOING SOMETHING $#@!ING ILLEGAL!  Whether you agree with "the law" or not, this is the society we live in.  The people voted for all this $#@!.  They created this bohemoth government and they line up like lemmings to have their balls squeezed by TSA.
> 
> I know a multitude of GOOD police and federal agents (mostly customs guys and gals)... I don't expect anyone on these forums to _really_ understand who or what the Oathkeepers are and what we do, but suffice it to say, there is a reason more of us don't come out and talk to RPF... it's precisely because of this thread.  AntiFederalist and I already had this conversation.


"Doing something illegal" is not justification for violence.  Try again.

----------


## jllundqu

> That's fine. I was simply pointing out that it's not "justified... period". It's not "justice" simply because political machinations declare it to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Alright. No need to get worked up on me about this. I'm not sure why you're addressing me with this because I don't have a problem with individual police officers, unless they are abusive or commit criminal acts (there's a lot of those out there, too). Even dividing people into "good' or "bad" in that sense is kind of ridiculous. People are complex, and we have all sorts of social institutions that are built on all sorts of bad ideas. I get that. I have a problem with institutions, not people so much. I haven't called anyone names in this thread or anything. The OP seems pretty reasonable, and I feel I've also been pretty reasonable in this thread. If you can point me to where I have been otherwise I'm open to taking the possibility that I wasn't into consideration.


Point taken... I had just finished reading several page's worth of "pig bashing" and the steam valve kicked in.  If people knew how many officers put their lives on hold and gave all they could to the Ron Paul campaign, it would shock RPF.

Continue Cop Hating and brainless attacks in 4...... 3....... 2.....

----------


## jllundqu

> "Doing something illegal" is not justification for violence.  Try again.


Actually, I was a teenager engaging in frivolous property destruction (ie infringing on the property rights of others) thus drawing the attention of the long arm of the law...  The officer did not use "violence" agaisnt me other than to put me in cuffs and take me to the station for my parents to pick me up.  Now.... had I simply yelled "$#@! you Pig!" and ran away.... I would expect a certain amount of violence to ensue.  He would have chased me, tackled me, cuffed and stuffed me.  Nothing excessive, but the minimum necessary to enforce that particular law.

"Try again?"  Get off your pseudo-intellectual high-horse fercrissake.

----------


## Darguth

> Actually, I was a teenager engaging in frivolous property destruction (ie infringing on the property rights of others) thus drawing the attention of the long arm of the law...  The officer did not use "violence" agaisnt me other than to put me in cuffs and take me to the station for my parents to pick me up.  Now.... had I simply yelled "$#@! you Pig!" and ran away.... I would expect a certain amount of violence to ensue.  He would have chased me, tackled me, cuffed and stuffed me.  Nothing excessive, but the minimum necessary to enforce that particular law.


Right, but that is more than generically "doing something illegal".  You were infringing on the rights of others.  There are plenty of "illegal" activities that do not.  Words matter, you should use them properly.

Also, cuffing you is violent.  It's a forceful restraint of your own person.  It may have been justified, but it is still a violent act.




> "Try again?"  Get off your pseudo-intellectual high-horse fercrissake.


As soon as you apply reason rather than emotion in your justification of aggression and violence.  Also, as your post clearly demonstrates you did have to "try again" to explain your original point.  Specifics matter a great deal when justifying violence.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Actually, I was a teenager engaging in frivolous property destruction (ie infringing on the property rights of others)


Unfortunately there are a lot of things that are also illegal that don't involve infringing upon anyone's rights (again, resulting in perversions of The Law). I don't think many people would disagree that you should have been held accountable for property destruction.

----------


## Red Green

> Point taken... I had just finished reading several page's worth of "pig bashing" and the steam valve kicked in.  If people knew how many officers put their lives on hold and gave all they could to the Ron Paul campaign, it would shock RPF.
> 
> Continue Cop Hating and brainless attacks in 4...... 3....... 2.....


OK and a lot of people who actually earn a living put their lives on hold and gave all they could to the RP campaign as well.

Look, despite all the clamoring about the word "pig", I am being totally respectful to the guy.  He is here wanting to answer questions, explain what it's like to be a LEO RP supporter, and that's great.  However, you cannot come to a forum where liberty is the focus, proclaim that you get paid to quash people's liberty and expect people to support that.  I can support what this guy is doing here and still show a deserved disdain for what he gets paid for.  I am showing him respect for being here and not being a pussy about being called a pig (and make no mistake, he's a pig) and still managing to interact with the people here.  I think it's important to hear our measured concerns about the occupation he has chosen and it's important for us to hear how he is reconciling his occupation with his supposed love of liberty.  All this is good, but no one, and I mean no one, should ever expect to be respected for being an oppressive agent of the state.  At least not here.  I am sure there are some knuckle-dragging neo-con forums where he can show up and get a big "thank you for your service!" greeting but this forum is about liberty and therefor he should have expected that he's not going to get any respect for how he pays his bills.

----------


## newbitech

> ^THis...
> 
> There are many oathkeepers on this forum who are forced to remain anonymous for that very reason.


that's a shame.  Wonder how many people out there STILL believe that something is wrong with THEM because of how the system these oath keepers enforce treats them.

I have a lot of respect for oath keepers, but the damage is done.  I am not going to go out of my way to insult cops and $#@!, but really, too $#@!ing bad they chose a career that has turned them into villains among friends.  There is some measure of personally responsibility they must be willing to accept as liberty lovers, and career choice is pretty low on my list of $#@! that I would expect people to remain anonymous over.  

And again, they chose to be cops.  They people who have suffered injustice under the color of law had no choice and their lives are pretty much torn up forever.  At least the cops STILL have a choice to get out of that bull$#@! and cease and desist with the risk of ruining someone's life because its their damn job.  

COPS have always had their brotherhood to turn to.  People out here that have had life ruining encounters with them are just barely starting to realize they are not alone and getting a voice.  

I have no sympathy for oathkeepers feelings of wanting to remain anonymous because they can't handle the verbal abuse.  SO $#@!ING WHAT!  Will it ruin their lives?  NO $#@!ING WAY.

Those shy oathkeepers need to learn lesson #1 really $#@!ing quick.  The people who are bashing them as a group have been seriously damaged by someone wearing the same badge and uniform as them.  Those people learned the lesson that they are just a number, what makes Mr. Oathkeeper any different?  Nothing, at least if they want to mingle with cop haters.  

Personally,  I've adapted and overcome despite bull$#@! I've received from cops.  I expect anyone here to do the same.

----------


## newbitech

oh, and every time I hear some cop looking for sympathy talking about, "i worry if I will go home every night" blah blah, I am reminded of several times when I have heard cops rubbing it in the face of their victims of how they are going home to a comfortable bed, and "where are you gonna be sleeping tonight, punk?"

absolutely NO sympathy from me. None, nada.  Zero, Ziltch.  -1

----------


## Slutter McGee

> So let me get this straight: people who say things you disagree with should be called "$#@!s, and $#@!tards and dicks" but a guy who admits to throwing people in a cage for no good reason and getting paid for it should be treated with respect?  
> 
> Is it me or are you deranged?
> 
> I have some choice descriptions for the $#@! banksters on Wall Street too; is that out of line, or does your indignation begin and end with your police fetish?
> 
> 
> 
> We're having a conversation and I am being as respectful as his occupation affords him.  If he was getting paid for sex I would refer to him as a Man-Whore, because that's a perfectly good description for a prostitute.  And keep in mind I actually do have respect for prostitutes.


I am sorry. I guess I was not clear. 

You are an idiot of the highest order, and I feel ashamed to have same ideological views as you.

Slutter McGee

----------


## Origanalist

> I am sorry. I guess I was not clear. 
> 
> You are an idiot of the highest order, and I feel ashamed to have same ideological views as you.
> 
> Slutter McGee


It doesn't sound like you do.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> I have some choice descriptions for the $#@! banksters on Wall Street too; is that out of line, or does your indignation begin and end with your police fetish?


Oh yeah, I forgot something dip$#@!. I work in banking. I design technology for banks, almost of all of them local small banks. But see, I have something called intelligence which your dumbass lacks. I recognize that there is a big difference between these local banks and Goldman $#@!ing Sachs. 

Unfortunately you are took the word idiot, and masturbated every night to the thought of you becoming one. Until you were so $#@!ing stupid that finally, the word was appropriate.

Just like I can make a logical $#@!ing distinction, you should be able to make a distinction between a police officer who abuses his authority and disrespects our rights, and one who reluctantly enforces laws but does respect our constitutional rights.

See jackass, dumb$#@!, whatever you are. Your right to smoke pot ain't in the constitution. That doesn't mean I believe in drug laws...I don't. But it does mean a police officer (not a pig) can respect the constitution and still enforce state law that is applicable under the Bill of Rights.

Treat the man with some $#@!ing respect, because at the end of the day, he is trying to help out his community, and you are just a piece of $#@!.

Slutter McGee

----------


## Slutter McGee

> It doesn't sound like you do.


See, this feller challenged my opinion without using the word pig to describe somebody who has been posting. I will reply to him in kind. I won't insult or be rude.

I very much do not support drug laws. But I recognize that they exist. I can't immediately change that. Just like this police officer can not. 

So he has two options. Continue to server his community while respecting our rights or turn down the job, and allow somebody who doesn't give a crap about the constitution a chance.

I will take the former over the later.

I will also treat him like a human being, and I will show respect for the courage this person has had coming into this den of hatred.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## presence

free -rep for next ad hominem attack!

----------


## Origanalist

> Unfortunately you are took the word idiot, and masturbated every night to the thought of you becoming one. Until you were so $#@!ing stupid that finally, the word was appropriate.


That almost makes sense. So this is what police state defenders sound like when they get excited.

----------


## Christian Liberty

How do the courts normally take a "Two witnesses against one cop" type situation?  Just curious.

----------


## tod evans

> How do the courts normally take a "Two witnesses against one cop" type situation?  Just curious.


March on down to the federal courthouse and talk to the clerk, it's public record...

[If you can find any cases that even made the docket...]

----------


## tmg19103

> How do the courts normally take a "Two witnesses against one cop" type situation?  Just curious.


Side with the cop 99.99% of the time if it is a "he said/she said" scenario where it is just the word of the cop against two witnesses.

----------


## Origanalist

> I will now take that free -rept and call you a $#@!ing dumbass.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee


Feel better now?

----------


## bolil

> Oh yeah, I forgot something dip$#@!. I work in banking. I design technology for banks, almost of all of them local small banks. But see, I have something called intelligence which your dumbass lacks. I recognize that there is a big difference between these local banks and Goldman $#@!ing Sachs. 
> 
> Unfortunately you are took the word idiot, and masturbated every night to the thought of you becoming one. Until you were so $#@!ing stupid that finally, the word was appropriate.
> 
> Just like I can make a logical $#@!ing distinction, you should be able to make a distinction between a police officer who abuses his authority and disrespects our rights, and one who reluctantly enforces laws but does respect our constitutional rights.
> 
> See jackass, dumb$#@!, whatever you are. Your right to smoke pot ain't in the constitution. That doesn't mean I believe in drug laws...I don't. But it does mean a police officer (not a pig) can respect the constitution and still enforce state law that is applicable under the Bill of Rights.
> 
> Treat the man with some $#@!ing respect, because at the end of the day, he is trying to help out his community, and you are just a piece of $#@!.
> ...



Whew, something tells me your work in banking isn't going too hot.  That is some impressive vitriol, I should know.  Oh, and the appellation "pig" didn't just spontaneously grow out of peoples hatred, rather it is the result of the experiences vast numbers of people who have been treated like fodder by the police (ergo the name "Pigs").  Since it can only be determined, whether a cop has quadruped or bipedal tendencies (I almost said DNA ), at the end of a police encounter; assuming all cops are pigs is really just the safest course to take.

In other words, if you hold out hope that those cherries and berries are interested in your rights and not a pay check with a side of power trip, expect to be disappointed.

The right to smoke pot is the wrong way to look at it.  The right to do with our bodies what we will is the proper way to look at it, which of course is also common sense.  Guess you banker types are running a deficit in that department.
Also, Jesus loves you.

As for our new resident Officer Friendly, I am sure some in his jurisdiction consider him a pig and others consider him an officer.  By his own admission he arrests drug offenders which would lead me to sympathize with the former (no victim, no crime, consensual activity does not result in a victim except in cases of fraud, which isn't technically consensual).

----------


## presence

> I will now take that free -rep and call you a $#@!ing dumbass.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee

----------


## newbitech

> 


I am sure I would have to self-ban after something like that!

----------


## Slutter McGee

Conrats all. I am now ashamed of being associated with you. I realize that you don't like me. I realize that you think I am unworthy to stand for liberty. But see, what you fail to understand is that you need people like me. You need poeple who are not libertarian purists. You need people who will stand up for someone when they are being mistreated. You need somebody who will tell another person...back off...stop being a $#@!ing prick.

And after all this. I am ashamed of you. I feel like crying. Because if you are the kind of people I have to call my "brothers in liberty...my sisters in liberty" then I say....NO.

I don't represent you. I don't want you. And you are a diservice to the idea of the word liberty.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## Slutter McGee

> 


Congrats on running people away from liberty. I hope you feel proud of yourself.

Slutter McGee

----------


## QuickZ06

> *Congrats on running people away from liberty.* I hope you feel proud of yourself.
> 
> Slutter McGee


Ummmm have you seen what you have written ??? Don't think calling people retards and dumbasses is the best way to go about things.......

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Whew, something tells me your work in banking isn't going too hot. at the end of a police encounter; assuming all cops are pigs is really just the safest course to take.
> 
> 
> As for our new resident Officer Friendly, I am sure some in his jurisdiction consider him a pig and others consider him an officer.  By his own admission he arrests drug offenders which would lead me to sympathize with the former (no victim, no crime, consensual activity does not result in a victim except in cases of fraud, which isn't technically consensual).


First off, my experience in banking is going well. I just dont like talking to idiots. Second off, assumptions are for liberals. For people who take a group of people, throw them into a collective opinion, and accept the result. You are a liberal my friend. Because you dont recognize that liberty is about the individual.

Again, ho you can you be more pathetic....to run off potential allies.

I know...because you have the intelligence of your average nazi.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. what is wrong.......jesus what is wrong with you people. how can you be such horrible $#@!ing human beings. how can you be such a disgrace to what i believe in.

$#@! ALL OF YOU.

Slutter McGee

----------


## presence



----------


## tmg19103

> First off, my experience in banking is going well. I just dont like talking to idiots. Second off, assumptions are for liberals. For people who take a group of people, throw them into a collective opinion, and accept the result. You are a liberal my friend. Because you dont recognize that liberty is about the individual.
> 
> Again, ho you can you be more pathetic....to run off potential allies.
> 
> I know...because you have the intelligence of your average nazi.
> 
> WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. what is wrong.......jesus what is wrong with you people. how can you be such horrible $#@!ing human beings. how can you be such a disgrace to what i believe in.
> 
> $#@! ALL OF YOU.
> ...


YAWN.

----------


## QuickZ06

> First off, my experience in banking is going well. I just dont like talking to idiots. Second off, assumptions are for liberals. For people who take a group of people, throw them into a collective opinion, and accept the result. You are a liberal my friend. Because you dont recognize that liberty is about the individual.
> 
> Again, ho you can you be more pathetic....to run off potential allies.
> 
> I know...because you have the intelligence of your average nazi.
> 
> WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. what is wrong.......jesus what is wrong with you people. how can you be such horrible $#@!ing human beings. how can you be such a disgrace to what i believe in.
> 
> $#@! ALL OF YOU.
> ...


Meh.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> First off, my experience in banking is going well. I just dont like talking to idiots. *Second off, assumptions are for liberals. For people who take a group of people, throw them into a collective opinion, and accept the result. You are a liberal my friend. Because you dont recognize that liberty is about the individual.*
> 
> Again, ho you can you be more pathetic....to run off potential allies.
> 
> I know...because you have the intelligence of your average nazi.
> 
> *WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. what is wrong.......jesus what is wrong with you people. how can you be such horrible $#@!ing human beings. how can you be such a disgrace to what i believe in.*
> 
> *$#@! ALL OF YOU.*
> ...


Jeez. Take a breather, dude. I don't think people using names like "pig" is productive, but _you're taking this more personally than the OP_, and getting super emotional over it to the point where you've turned this thread into your own personal war against people who have been victimized and who likely can't do anything about it but use names like "pigs" to express themselves. The issue is institutional, not "irrational" collectivism.

Neither of those sides are listening to each other, it's just an emotional whirlwind of people offending each other, and no one really listening to what the other is saying because their ideas are wrapped around name-calling and attacks. This is a hot button issue for a lot of people, because the core of the issue is _the use of violence_. People have been victimized by an institution (and/or rogue agents). People have friends and family members who work in that institution, or like the OP, do it themselves. Clash of the emotional titans.

The OP didn't ask for you to come to his defense, and has clearly shown that he can handle what people have been dishing at him, you're obviously doing this over _your own personal offense_ by it. _You're coming to your own defense_, and it's kinda preventing a discussion that is pretty contentious, but still active and engaging from continuing because you have to let off steam about how offended you are._ You're talking about how you're doing this to stand up for people being mistreated, but it's clear through your reaction compared to the OP that you're defending your own personal offense and getting highly emotional over it.

The OP (and some others who had similar objections) has already shown how he can handle the rhetoric far better than you have_, so allow him to respond to those who want to have a conversation. If he doesn't want to hear it I'm sure he'll just ignore or block people, or say that he's done with it. He knew what he was doing when he started this thread. If you want to start your own thread about how "$#@! YOU ALL" because "you all are collectivist liberal retards and think all cops are evil" and blow off some steam then do it but please allow those who want to have discourse to do so.

FFS, this thread doesn't have to be such an emotional $#@! storm. If you feel like you're blood is starting to boil, it's probably a good time to close it and find something else.

----------


## bolil

I feel like I need to clarify my statement:

Since it has been demonstrated, over, and over, and over, again that an encounter with the police can result in being abused by the police, it is wise to expect that any encounter with the police will involve abuse and to conduct yourself accordingly (don't be belligerent, have recording devices running/streaming, other precautions).  If your right in your expectation you will be better able to defend yourself, if you are wrong you will be pleasantly surprised.  I would never call a cop a pig to his/her face because it would probably result in some unpleasant consequences delivered by a cop that is a pig, and personal humiliation delivered by a cop that is a cop.

----------


## The Northbreather

Where'd officer awesome go?

Did he trick everyone into infighting and bounce?

Troll tactics.

*Agent Provocateur   1

RPF                                                                       0*

----------


## Petar

> First off, my experience in banking is going well. I just dont like talking to idiots. Second off, assumptions are for liberals. For people who take a group of people, throw them into a collective opinion, and accept the result. You are a liberal my friend. Because you dont recognize that liberty is about the individual.
> 
> Again, ho you can you be more pathetic....to run off potential allies.
> 
> I know...because you have the intelligence of your average nazi.
> 
> WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. what is wrong.......jesus what is wrong with you people. how can you be such horrible $#@!ing human beings. how can you be such a disgrace to what i believe in.
> 
> $#@! ALL OF YOU.
> ...


Yahtzee!

----------


## The Northbreather

I take that back.
*
RPFs                  10
Agent Provocateur 0*

----------


## devil21

> Where'd officer awesome go?
> 
> Did he trick everyone into infighting and bounce?
> 
> Troll tactics.
> 
> *Agent Provocateur   1
> 
> RPF                                                                       0*


You're new around here?  Slutter is known for this stuff occasionally.  I consider it a badge of honor to be in his sig.

----------


## bolil

> Where'd officer awesome go?


Damn me.  Looking for truffles.

----------


## Fivezeroes

Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid. 

A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.

----------


## Todd

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid. 
> 
> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.


Some of us have LE experience.  There's also one rule most in this profession don't follow.  It's called choosing your battles.  To enforce every stupid law is the epitome of trite and petty.   Some "laws" don't "protect" anyone.

----------


## newbitech

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid. 
> 
> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.


and the people....

----------


## tmg19103

Whether you agree with him or not, I'd say we would be much better off with cops like Fivezeroes as opposed to what I have run across - and I have dealt with police abuse and a false arrest for not only questioning the police, but exposing my local municipal officials - who sicked the police on me.

One thing you have to realize is that cops get away with abuse and misconduct because our appointed and elected local government agents either turn a blind too it, or actively endorse police misconduct. They feel obligated to "support" the police in general - which means supporting the misconduct.

This is not just a police problem. It's just as much a local government problem.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts. I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid.
> 
> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.





> *Rights belong to individuals, not groups; they derive from our nature and can neither be granted nor taken away by government. All peaceful, voluntary economic and social associations are permitted; consent is the basis of the social and economic order. Justly acquired property is privately owned by individuals and voluntary groups, and this ownership cannot be arbitrarily voided by governments.* Government may not redistribute private wealth or grant special privileges to any individual or group. Individuals are responsible for their own actions; government cannot and should not protect us from ourselves.
> 
> -from the appendix to Ron Paul’s great 2012 book Liberty Defined


States don't actually have rights, only individuals have rights. The constitution is not some sort of entity which presides over society and can grant rights to organizations (or individuals for that matter). It's merely an attempt to limit government abuse and usurpation of power. Rights are inherent in each individual in our nature as acting human beings. It sort of sounds like you're arguing that the constitution grants the States a form of authoritarian control. The constitution cannot establish this sort of authority, nor can individuals delegate rights that they don't have.

In other words if I don't have the right to use force in order to prevent my neighbor from possessing or using a substance, say Ibuprofen, then I can't delegate that right to "my legislator" simply because I lobby for him to use the force of government to create laws against possessing it. It is a perversion of Law.




> What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.
> 
> Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.
> 
> Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?
> 
> If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.


Political edicts which infringe upon people's rights are simply perversions of law. Writing something down as "legal" on a piece of paper doesn't make it just. It's nothing more than politicians warping the legal system through arbitrary decrees.

If a society had a constitution which allowed chattel slavery and their government made decrees that made slavery legal, it may be considered "legal" but it still would not be just. It would be a perversion of law, because the purpose of law is to maintain justice and because slavery infringes upon individual rights.




> What are the consequences of such a perversion? It would require volumes to describe them all. Thus we must content ourselves with pointing out the most striking.
> 
> In the first place, it erases from everyone's conscience the distinction between justice and injustice.
> 
> No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them.
> 
> The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are "just" because law makes them so. Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and sacred to many consciences, it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly find defenders not only among those who profit from them but also among those who suffer from them.


When law is perverted, you create systemic victimization and infringement. A system which _produces_ injustice rather than protects and rectifies against it.

----------


## Darguth

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. *I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid.*


That's part of the problem.  It takes a certain amount of cognitive dissonance to voluntarily swear to uphold laws "no matter how stupid".  




> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.


States definitely retain police powers.  However, States also have constitutions that enumerate natural rights of citizens which are habitually broken by police that took a sworn oath to uphold those State constitutions.

*And* even if those States did not have their own versions of the Bill of Rights the 10th Amendment would not give States the power to trample on the natural rights of citizens anyway.  Rights aren't granted by pieces of paper.  If the First Amendment didn't exist it wouldn't somehow allow for the justification of a policing power to stifle the voice of citizens to express their opinions without fear of reprisal.

----------


## presence

> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.





> No constitutional clause is entirely open ended, none says:  "Go and do justice- what constitutes "justice" shall be determine by a majority of the Supreme Court at any given time"  All clauses including the due process clause of the 14th Amendment have outer boundaries that can usually be discerned through an investigation of the *generally understood meaning of the language used at the time of ratification.*  In the case of the due process clause we can see that the broadest possible principle incorporated within the clause was the opportunity to be heard--ie the principle that no person can be deprived of a right without FIRST being given a judicial hearing.  
> 
> []
> 
> To provide for a trial to ascertain whether a man is in the enjoyment of his rights, and then, as a consequence of finding that he is...to deprive him of these rights is doing indirectly what is forbidden to be done directly, and reduces constitutional provisions to nullity.
> 
> This notion that conduct that was innocent or non-liability producing when performed cannot later be condemned by the government seems related to the unfair surprise standard articulated by the Court.
> 
> []
> ...


http://www.hastingsconlawquarterly.o...I4/Whitten.pdf 


If I murder, rape, maim, steal...

I have an expectation that I will later be judged.

If I smoke pot, if I speed, if I fail to hold $10 in my pocket in Pensacola, FL...

An no party is injured; no liability produced...

I "could not reasonabl[y] have anticipated that [my] actions would later be judged"

∴ Unconstitutional

----------


## newbitech

career choice is all about what you want to produce.  People who chose a service industry mainly want to produce happy customers and a good feeling.  People who chose a production industry mainly want to produce quality goods.  People who chose law enforcement, I suppose is a service industry so those folks want to produce happy customers and a good feeling, but really what does law enforcement and the criminal just us system produce?  Criminals.

Now, don't get me wrong.  I believe there is a function for civil servants to arrest and apprehend people who cause harm to person and property.   I also believe that there is a function for in the same scope for civil servants to remain vigilant in private industry regulation.  However, these positions are civil servant positions and ought to be occupied by folks looking to serve out of a sense of civic duty, and NOT out of a sense of material personal enrichment.  Within this scope, the requirements for personnel are small and the capacity does not exceed the need.  

Today, we have a hugely disproportionate amount of "civil servants" performing their "duties" out of a grossly inflated sense of material personal enrichment!  Their actions and entire state of being have long since eclipsed the scope of protecting life and property.  In fact, their function here on planet earth and in the "land of the free" is somewhat of an enigma.  I wonder, if the scope of law enforcement was reduce to it's natural state of enforcing only common sense laws that protected against infringement upon life and liberty, would society be overrun by 100's of 1000's of ex-criminal just us system "personnel" who lack the means and ability to integrate themselves into the common way of life that the other 98% of society has become adapted to?

What would those folks do without the ability to leech capital off hard working producers and servants for such inauthentic and illegitimate reasons as traffic violations and personal consumption choices?

I'd like to know the answer to that.  Because ultimately, for the OP, he has 2 choices if he really is a man of principle. 

1.) Remove himself from the cadre of violence he is surrounded by and disown his "profession".
2.) Fight from the inside until the system's totalitarian march has been halted, reversed, and sent back to the very roots and hope to be the example of the right way.

The first choice is pretty tough if the OP has no marketable skill.  The second choice tho, that is even tougher because if he truly is a man of principle, he will be performing actions and thoughts daily from the time he wakes to the time he sleeps that must go against his principle.  And if he is just someone who is finding his principle thanks to the uprising of truth and intelligence over the last 5-10 years, then I really don't think it's gonna work out for him as a cop.  He'll either slip back to a dull mind and willfully ignore his transgressions against his fellow man in the name of "duty" or "his job", OR he'll run as fast as he can away from his "career" and have to start his life over.

If he decides to start over, he will have lots of support from people who have experienced being forced to start over, thanks to cops.  I would be the first.  If he decides to fight from the inside, I would just say to him, you get what you ask for in life.  And messing around with cops, whether you are one or not, you'll eventually get it, and probably you won't realize what you were REALLY asking for, until its too late.  Then you'll STILL have to start over, but you'd be paying for your stubborn pride.

----------


## QuickZ06

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid. 
> 
> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.


Everyone commits at least three felons a day, we all break the law when they pas 40k each year, land of the free?

----------


## Red Green

> Oh yeah, I forgot something dip$#@!. I work in banking. I design technology for banks, almost of all of them local small banks. But see, I have something called intelligence which your dumbass lacks. I recognize that there is a big difference between these local banks and Goldman $#@!ing Sachs.


And apparently you can't read; I specifically mentioned Wall Street banksters.  Not the people who design software for the financial industry, not the guys who work at the local credit union, not even the guy who sweeps the floors as GS headquarters.  I was pretty specific.  Looks like you are just looking to be offended.  Sensitive much?




> Just like I can make a logical $#@!ing distinction, you should be able to make a distinction between a police officer who abuses his authority and disrespects our rights, and one who reluctantly enforces laws but does respect our constitutional rights.


This fellow has admitted to violating people's rights.  Am I missing something here?

He should not blame me for considering his occupation to be worthy of the title "pig", he should blame all the pigs who have done things to bring disrepute to law enforcement.  And regardless of that, being an agent of the state is incompatible with liberty unless you have a state that is focused on liberty, which we don't have in the US.  




> See jackass, dumb$#@!, whatever you are. Your right to smoke pot ain't in the constitution.


You're calling me a dumb$#@!?  Have you bothered to read the constitution?  You know, that part that says that the bill of rights is in no way to be construed as comprehensive?  The vast majority of my rights aren't in the constitution.  And neither is the power of the federal government to dictate what I eat, drink or smoke.  




> That doesn't mean I believe in drug laws...I don't. But it does mean a police officer (not a pig) can respect the constitution and still enforce state law that is applicable under the Bill of Rights.


So when a law gets passed that the pigs are supposed to round up semi-automatic rifles, are you going to give them a pass for doing that as well?  At what point to they become pigs to you?  As long as they are only enforcing a law that someone else wrote down, they're OK in your books?




> Treat the man with some $#@!ing respect, because at the end of the day, he is trying to help out his community, and you are just a piece of $#@!.
> 
> Slutter McGee


I sincerely believe that a lot of people who believe in stuff like prohibition and gun confiscation have good intentions, but you know what they say about good intentions.  Go read that quote by CS Lewis about people with good intentions.

----------


## Red Green

> I feel like I need to clarify my statement:
> 
> Since it has been demonstrated, over, and over, and over, again that an encounter with the police can result in being abused by the police, it is wise to expect that any encounter with the police will involve abuse and to conduct yourself accordingly (don't be belligerent, have recording devices running/streaming, other precautions).  If your right in your expectation you will be better able to defend yourself, if you are wrong you will be pleasantly surprised.  I would never call a cop a pig to his/her face because it would probably result in some unpleasant consequences delivered by a cop that is a pig, and personal humiliation delivered by a cop that is a cop.


My general rulebook for dealing with the pigs is to say as little as possible.  Most likely they'll know I'm pissed off.  I'm not going to be friendly.  I'm not going to thank the pig for pulling me over or handing me a ticket.  He'll know by my body language that I consider him a pig.  And I am always for recording the entire interaction.

----------


## eric_cartman

just wanted to thank Anti Federalist for his service to the ron paul forums.

----------


## presence

http://buddhism.about.com/od/theeigh...livelihood.htm



> Right Livelihood: The Ethics of Earning a Living
> 
> Part of the Eightfold Path
> 													By Barbara O'Brien
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of us sustain ourselves by working at a job and earning a  paycheck. Your job may be something you love doing, or not. You may see  yourself as serving humanity, or not. People may admire you for your  profession. Or, you may see your profession as being more ethical than  Mafia Hit Man, but not much. Does this matter to Buddhist practice?
> ...




*Not killing* [keywords: cop shot, officer administrative leave, police shot dog, "unlawful use of force", militarized law enforcement]*Not stealing* [keywords: police seized, corrupt police, police smuggled]*Not misusing sex* [keywords: police sexual misconduct, police sexual favors]*Not lying* [keywords: officer falsified, failed to investigate, officers lied, unlawful arrest, abuse of power police]*Not abusing intoxicants* [keywords: police steroid abuse, police alcoholism, officer addiction]



I can pull 30 liberty news stories a day out of those keyword searches alone.

----------


## jtap

Maybe we could help bring this discussion back to the realm of civil discussion by getting his opinion on effectiveness of bullet calibers

----------


## bunklocoempire

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid. 
> 
> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.


_Conflicted_.  There exists some sort of conflict in most of our lives -meaning what we hold as ideals compared to what we actually do.

My wife for example is a private firm auditor specializing in non-profit entities.  As non-profits often get stolen monies in the form of "grants" my wife's job is essentially overseeing "the ethical use of stolen money".  The bulk of her job -a mandated government hoop- adds to the cost of these non-profit "bottom lines".  That certainly makes my wife and myself conflicted when it comes to our ideals and our knowledge of how things actually work free market wise.

*We have no illusions about this conflict*, and the *ONLY* thing we can offer up is that my wife overseeing "the ethical use of stolen money" is making the best out of a screwed up situation.     

'Laws on the books' *do not* make these conflicts go away.  Oath's *do not* make these conflicts go away.

The closer that a conflicted person comes to wielding government sanctioned lethal force/penal code the more people will rightly push back.  Can you blame them?  I sure can't.  When it comes to folks pointing out conflicted things in my own life I welcome it and try not to focus on 'how it is said'.  

I hope this can help you understand a bit about some of the views here Fivezeroes.

----------


## tmg19103

> My general rulebook for dealing with the pigs is to say as little as possible.  Most likely they'll know I'm pissed off.  I'm not going to be friendly.  I'm not going to thank the pig for pulling me over or handing me a ticket.  He'll know by my body language that I consider him a pig.  And I am always for recording the entire interaction.


I bait them with words that I know will set them off, secretly record with my smartphone, then post it on a local blog. Have a smartphone with 4G and the Dropbox app. Secretly record with your video camera the moment you are pulled over or approached by a cop as it has great sound pick-up (at least on Android), you can pull it out and actually video record the ongoing conversation if need be as the video camera is already running, and the Dropbox app automatically sends the video to your home computer (and others you designate) in case the cops grab the phone and smash it. This is the only way to protect yourself as the cops audio and video always "malfunctions" when they violate your rights, beat you, falsely arrest you, etc.

----------


## bolil

> I bait them with words that I know will set them off, secretly record with my smartphone, then post it on a local blog. Have a smartphone with 4G and the Dropbox app. Secretly record with your video camera the moment you are pulled over or approached by a cop as it has great sound pick-up (at least on Android), you can pull it out and actually video record the ongoing conversation if need be as the video camera is already running, and the Dropbox app automatically sends the video to your home computer (and others you designate) in case the cops grab the phone and smash it. This is the only way to protect yourself as the cops audio and video always "malfunctions" when they violate your rights, beat you, falsely arrest you, etc.


Thanks for info on phone, I am going to look into one of those.  Baiting cops, however, might be brave but also doomed to failure.  Video/audio will only help you, and as seen in the case of that Philly pig that decked that lady does not mean everything.  Do anyone that care about you a favor and don't bait cops.  Please.  They can, and some will, beat the $#@! out of you and/or kill you.

Cops parade around like paragons, until something doesn't go their way.  Then they show their true sus nature.

----------


## mrsat_98

Speaking of ones right to smoke pot not being in the constitution. Its in the Declaration of Independence. Drug laws reduce us to animals which is genocide. Don't take my word for it google "man or other animals" and see for your self. Denying that its genocide amounts to another count. Jailing people at hard labor is human trafficking when a law is unconstitutional. 3 counts is ninety years.

----------


## Todd

> Speaking of ones right to smoke pot not being in the constitution. Its in the Declaration of Independence. Drug laws reduce us to animals which is genocide. Don't take my word for it google "man or other animals" and see for your self. Denying that its genocide amounts to another count. Jailing people at hard labor is human trafficking when a law is unconstitutional. 3 counts is ninety years.


Awesome information.  http://iamnotananimal.org/pdfs/I_AM_NOT_AN_ANIMAL.pdf

----------


## The Northbreather

In case  officer awesome missed it.

*Is This What A Hero Cop Looks Like?*

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...73#post4919573

----------


## mrsat_98

> Awesome information.  http://iamnotananimal.org/pdfs/I_AM_NOT_AN_ANIMAL.pdf


http://http://adask.wordpress.com/ca...other-animals/  Several other articles on the subject by the man who came up with it.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Ha, maybe your dad shouldn't have chosen the gang-banger lifestyle!


I just saw this. My dad is a DA. Instead of calling you names I will let your ignorance stand for what it is.

Take care,

Slutter McGee

----------


## Red Green

> I just saw this. My dad is a DA. Instead of calling you names I will let your ignorance stand for what it is.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Slutter McGee


Hence the penchant for pork.  

As a lawyer, your dad had many opportunities to work on the right side of liberty.  As a defense lawyer for instance.  Even lawyers who work in estate and family law are for the most part benign.  If he was really interested in liberty, he could have gone to work for the Institute for Justice.  Instead, he chose to take the career path that was least compatible with liberty.

If your dad is refusing to prosecute simple possession cases, I would have some respect for him.  If he's like most prosecutors and simply going after every win he can get, he's right up there with the pigs as far as I'm concerned.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Hence the penchant for pork.  
> 
> As a lawyer, your dad had many opportunities to work on the right side of liberty.  As a defense lawyer for instance.  Even lawyers who work in estate and family law are for the most part benign.  If he was really interested in liberty, he could have gone to work for the Institute for Justice.  Instead, he chose to take the career path that was least compatible with liberty.
> 
> If your dad is refusing to prosecute simple possession cases, I would have some respect for him.  If he's like most prosecutors and simply going after every win he can get, he's right up there with the pigs as far as I'm concerned.


It must be difficult not understanding how the real world works. See, it doesn't give a crap about your opinion. Most prosecutors do not go for every win they can get. But they do enforce the law as it is written.

I am trying to be nice...so I will not demean you personaly. I will however argue against your beliefs. Who would you rather have...a prosector who only cares about wins, or a prosecutor who wants to lock up people who are actually guilty. 

The constitution gives a lot of power to the state. If you want to argue this is a bad thing then have at it.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## tod evans

There is a reason prosecutors cower in fear and hide themselves and their families from those whom you claim they represent.

An ethical prosecutor could proudly walk the streets.....Show me one?

----------


## Petar

> I just saw this. My dad is a DA. Instead of calling you names I will let your ignorance stand for what it is.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Slutter McGee


Sorry, what I actually meant to say was "your dad is a hero and everyone else should be locked in a cage just so that he can continue to feel awesome about himself".

My sincerest apologies, 

Petar

----------


## Origanalist

> Jesus Christ, I leave for my shift and all hell breaks loose here. I get called a troll, man that must be a record around these parts.  I don't know whether to laugh at this situation or shake my head in disgust. I try my best to come here and offer good advice only to get told my life is meaningless because I wont let you break the laws, *laws that I swore to uphold, no matter how stupid.* 
> 
> A lot of you constitutional scholars really need to look at that little old amendment that dictates states rights. It doesn't just give the states the rights to ignore the encroachment of federal powers, it also gives them the right to make their own laws. Whether you like it or not, anyway I have to head on off to work to do my shift, catch all of you later.


I don't really care if you're disgusted. You're own lack of principle makes it irrelevant.

----------


## Red Green

> It must be difficult not understanding how the real world works. See, it doesn't give a crap about your opinion. Most prosecutors do not go for every win they can get. But they do enforce the law as it is written.
> 
> I am trying to be nice...so I will not demean you personaly. I will however argue against your beliefs. Who would you rather have...a prosector who only cares about wins, or a prosecutor who wants to lock up people who are actually guilty. 
> 
> The constitution gives a lot of power to the state. If you want to argue this is a bad thing then have at it.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee


I'll just say it's easy to talk the talk when it comes to liberty.  It's really not that hard to even walk the walk.  It does however take a specific type of $#@! to commit violence on other people for no good reason other than it puts money in their pocket.

If as you say, the law is the law, then why did we prosecute concentration camp guards at Nuremberg?  We're they not just enforcing the law as it was?  And if they didn't do it, someone else would have right?  Unless of course, everyone had a conscience and refused to take part.

----------


## bolil

bump for the bacon

----------


## Origanalist

> bump for the bacon




Bacon you say?

----------


## Origanalist



----------


## Fivezeroes

> Speaking of ones right to smoke pot not being in the constitution. Its in the Declaration of Independence. Drug laws reduce us to animals which is genocide. Don't take my word for it google "man or other animals" and see for your self. Denying that its genocide amounts to another count. Jailing people at hard labor is human trafficking when a law is unconstitutional. 3 counts is ninety years.



Again, the 10th amendment gives states the right to tell the feds to go $#@! themselves on this, but, if they don't do it. Then I have a job to uphold. Like I said, most people hate me because I refuse to let them break the law, laws that are afforded to the states through the 10th. If you don't like them then go bitch to your state reps and get them changed. 




> Awesome information. http://iamnotananimal.org/pdfs/I_AM_NOT_AN_ANIMAL.pdf


You know I also love this whole God given rights thing as well. While yes, God did give us all rights and Moses did give us laws to follow, do you think that if we had just the 10 commandments to go by, that the human race wouldn't be even more detestable than it already is? Does the 10 commandments murderers or thieves, from walking the streets? You know there are two commandments that strictly prohibit thievery and murder, right?

----------


## bunklocoempire

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4919465

----------


## Fivezeroes

> In case  officer awesome missed it.
> 
> *Is This What A Hero Cop Looks Like?*
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...73#post4919573




Oh man, that cop is going to get fired and be $#@!ed with for the rest of the time he lives in St. Louis. His best bet will be to move out of state once this lawsuit finishes. he now has a bulls-eye on his back, which is pathetic. I do like this bill the Alderman introduced. Make it a city ordinance violation, that way people stop taking up jail cells.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> _Conflicted_.  There exists some sort of conflict in most of our lives -meaning what we hold as ideals compared to what we actually do.
> 
> My wife for example is a private firm auditor specializing in non-profit entities.  As non-profits often get stolen monies in the form of "grants" my wife's job is essentially overseeing "the ethical use of stolen money".  The bulk of her job -a mandated government hoop- adds to the cost of these non-profit "bottom lines".  That certainly makes my wife and myself conflicted when it comes to our ideals and our knowledge of how things actually work free market wise.
> 
> *We have no illusions about this conflict*, and the *ONLY* thing we can offer up is that my wife overseeing "the ethical use of stolen money" is making the best out of a screwed up situation.     
> 
> 'Laws on the books' *do not* make these conflicts go away.  Oath's *do not* make these conflicts go away.
> 
> The closer that a conflicted person comes to wielding government sanctioned lethal force/penal code the more people will rightly push back.  Can you blame them?  I sure can't.  When it comes to folks pointing out conflicted things in my own life I welcome it and try not to focus on 'how it is said'.  
> ...



Do I blame anyone for pushing back? No, I don't blame them, but, there is a line between pushing back and downright insinuating that I should be murdered, all because of my profession. And you can't say that no one has ever said that here,  I have seen people up here actually say that all pigs deserve to die, so I deserve to die because of my job, so that people can break the law? I dunno, I don't understand how any sane human being can even advocate such hatred.

----------


## Professor8000

> Do I blame anyone for pushing back? No, I don't blame them, but, there is a line between pushing back and downright insinuating that I should be murdered, all because of my profession. And you can't say that no one has ever said that here,  I have seen people up here actually say that all pigs deserve to die, so I deserve to die because of my job, so that people can break the law? I dunno, I don't understand how any sane human being can even advocate such hatred.


I find that on certain subjects, some people become raging idiots, and should be ignored. Many of us try to get away from collectivist thinking, while others only do so when they find it convenient.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> Do I blame anyone for pushing back? No, I don't blame them, but, there is a line between pushing back and downright insinuating that I should be murdered, all because of my profession. And you can't say that no one has ever said that here, * I have seen people up here actually say that all pigs deserve to die, so I deserve to die because of my job, so that people can break the law?* I dunno, I don't understand how any sane human being can even advocate such hatred.


I appreciate your response.  Thank you.

The crux of the matter as I see it is that you are *conflicted* -as we pretty much *all* are.  When you are called on it (being conflicted) you cite law and an oath that you have taken.  Great for you but not so great for the 'law breakers' (victimless "criminals")  

I haven't studied every post in this thread, however, a truly victimless crime is just that. 

I don't go drinking with folks that like to *start* fights, if I do go along with those folks I can fully understand why others may want to kick my ass to the curb.  It's human nature to advocate that *survival mode* -no real surprise there IMO.

Suppose I do go drinking with folks who like to start fights but I hang waaay back in the rear and don't start anything, not a damn thing.  Guilt by association is again a survival mode that patrons that are not of your party will employ.  It's a two way street as you have admitted that police have their own survival mode.  

I post this only for better understanding Fivezeroes, and again I've appreciated your response.  *Consistency* is a big thing in this liberty movement as I am sure you are aware.

----------


## mrsat_98

> Again, the 10th amendment gives states the right to tell the feds to go $#@! themselves on this, but, if they don't do it. Then I have a job to uphold. Like I said, most people hate me because I refuse to let them break the law, laws that are afforded to the states through the 10th. If you don't like them then go bitch to your state reps and get them changed. 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I also love this whole God given rights thing as well. While yes, God did give us all rights and Moses did give us laws to follow, do you think that if we had just the 10 commandments to go by, that the human race wouldn't be even more detestable than it already is? Does the 10 commandments murderers or thieves, from walking the streets? You know there are two commandments that strictly prohibit thievery and murder, right?


Currently we live in a situation where the States are Federal agencies in disguise as Constitutional states and because only a small minority actually understand this and less actually oppose it. We are supposed to bow down to whatever bull$#@! the folks at the court house spread. I am not an enemy of the United States, I don't live on a frigging military reservation  in which everything I do is illegal unless I buy a license and pay a tax. Quite frankly sir I do not live or dwell "in this State" and gentlemen such as yourself bear false witness when alleging otherwise. As a general rule nearly every law you think you are duty bound to enforce is in reality a misrepresentation of the facts and the law. Go to you states tax law and get a good firm understanding of the terms, "in this State" "within the State" and "in the State". Its a military reservation located at some indefinite place alleged to be inside the boundaries of the actual dirt with boundaries around it. 


I prefer that you not refer to my fellow American's as the human race when human is nothing but a species of animal or in other words the public serpents forked tongue is showing.

----------


## Origanalist

> Again, the 10th amendment gives states the right to tell the feds to go $#@! themselves on this, but, if they don't do it. Then I have a job to uphold. Like I said, most people hate me because I refuse to let them break the law, laws that are afforded to the states through the 10th. If you don't like them then go bitch to your state reps and get them changed. 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I also love this whole God given rights thing as well. While yes, God did give us all rights and Moses did give us laws to follow, do you think that if we had just the 10 commandments to go by, that the human race wouldn't be even more detestable than it already is? Does the 10 commandments murderers or thieves, from walking the streets? You know there are two commandments that strictly prohibit thievery and murder, right?


While that is a semi-coherent ramble, what I get out of it is that God's laws aren't sufficient so we need super trooper here and a monstrously huge government to keep us from being more detestable than we already are.

Huh, no surprises here. Pretty much what I figured, thanks for reinforcing what I already knew.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> While that is a semi-coherent ramble, what I get out of it is that God's laws aren't sufficient so we need super trooper here and a monstrously huge government to keep us from being more detestable than we already are.
> 
> Huh, no surprises here. Pretty much what I figured, thanks for reinforcing what I already knew.



If you're one of the ones insinuating because I'm a cop, that I should be murdered, then yea, you're detestable. If you aren't one that thinks all cops should die, then no, you don't fit in the detestable category. And technically, God's laws aren't enough. How many murderers and thieves has the 10 commandments really stopped? You find me that answer and I'll downright kiss your ass for you. Because from where I'm sitting, they haven't stopped not one murderer or thief.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Currently we live in a situation where the States are Federal agencies in disguise as Constitutional states and because only a small minority actually understand this and less actually oppose it. We are supposed to bow down to whatever bull$#@! the folks at the court house spread. I am not an enemy of the United States, I don't live on a frigging military reservation  in which everything I do is illegal unless I buy a license and pay a tax. Quite frankly sir I do not live or dwell "in this State" and gentlemen such as yourself bear false witness when alleging otherwise. As a general rule nearly every law you think you are duty bound to enforce is in reality a misrepresentation of the facts and the law. Go to you states tax law and get a good firm understanding of the terms, "in this State" "within the State" and "in the State". Its a military reservation located at some indefinite place alleged to be inside the boundaries of the actual dirt with boundaries around it. 
> 
> 
> *I prefer that you not refer to my fellow American's as the human race when human is nothing but a species of animal or in other words the public serpents forked tongue is showing.*



So you're saying that you and the rest of us Americans are some sort of species of their own? LOL I really do feel sad for you, libertarians aren't supposed to break things down into collective groups, such as race and yet, here you are somehow thinking that Americans are above the human species moniker.

----------


## Red Green

With regards to laws, be they state or federal or even local ordinances, the only "good" a government can do is to underwrite the rights of the individuals it claims to represent.  In doing so, the government would truly be a public servant rather than a ruler.  

With that in mind, when you go to enforce a law you should ask yourself who's rights it is you are protecting.  Let's look beyond the drug prohibition into something as innocuous as business licenses.  Man has engaged in commerce as far back as when Unnng could trade fish with Gorg for some animal hides.  This is a natural right.  In steps this thing called "government" claiming that people need to be licensed to exercise a basic right that has existed as long as man has.  Who's rights are being protected when you or some other government cretin enforces such a law?

The fact is that if you enforce a law that protects no one's rights and in fact violates a person's natural rights, you are acting as a ruler and not a servant.  You are not serving your community, you're serving a tyrant or a bunch of tyrants, whatever the case may be.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> With regards to laws, be they state or federal or even local ordinances, the only "good" a government can do is to underwrite the rights of the individuals it claims to represent.  In doing so, the government would truly be a public servant rather than a ruler.  
> 
> With that in mind, when you go to enforce a law you should ask yourself who's rights it is you are protecting.  Let's look beyond the drug prohibition into something as innocuous as business licenses.  Man has engaged in commerce as far back as when Unnng could trade fish with Gorg for some animal hides.  This is a natural right.  In steps this thing called "government" claiming that people need to be licensed to exercise a basic right that has existed as long as man has.  Who's rights are being protected when you or some other government cretin enforces such a law?
> 
> The fact is that if you enforce a law that protects no one's rights and in fact violates a person's natural rights, you are acting as a ruler and not a servant.  You are not serving your community, you're serving a tyrant or a bunch of tyrants, whatever the case may be.



I've never liked the whole concept of needing a business license for anything, I find it quite stupid myself.  It's not something I handle, that is for the Sheriff and his deputies to handle. The same people that everyone up here loves to bless like the anointed one. Yea, those guys handle that mess. You don't have a business license, it's one of them you talk to.

----------


## Red Green

> I've never liked the whole concept of needing a business license for anything, I find it quite stupid myself.  It's not something I handle, that is for the Sheriff and his deputies to handle. The same people that everyone up here loves to bless like the anointed one. Yea, those guys handle that mess. You don't have a business license, it's one of them you talk to.



That's an example.  I don't agree with driver's licenses either, but that is something you would enforce.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> That's an example.  I don't agree with driver's licenses either, but that is something you would enforce.


Fair enough.

----------


## Seraphim

Security and Policing are two very different things, both of which claim the same thing; Protection. Shall we examine the truth of these claims?

One is a private transaction conducted by a willing buyer and a willing seller as the direct result of on demand need.

One is a public transaction in which people have their money taken, by force, rationalized by the notion that protection will always be required, so may as well take the money and "protect"!.

There is no such thing as perfection in the real world when dealing with MANY imperfect human beings. But to believe that Policing is a REQUIREMENT is a grand oversight of morality in the real world.

Next, if it is true that most of your LEO friends are in it to help the weak - then that personality type is prone to doing such things whether they wear a uniform or not. The needy will be helped as much as possible. The same can be said of health care and education. If it's so important, it will be done to the best our or collective abilities. STEALING to enforce, promote and organize such services is a direct moral and logical contradiction to the very tenants of service you espouse.

I've met lots of cops. Most of them suck at being good people. Some are fine, but it's the institution that is the problem. I don't care how many nice guys wear uniforms. It's the damn uniforms paid for by stolen funds that are the damn problem.

Become a private security officer and retain your integrity. You will help secure someone's property from outside intrusion and the means by which you help society become safe(r) is peaceful and compliant with the goals you espouse.

Confessions from a peaceful An-Cap who, just like all the other serfs, is taking it up the ass from so many angles it's not funny. LEO's are the armed group who enforce all the immoral laws we are subject to. Like it or not, your job is not to help the weak. It never has and never will be.  




> No, there will always be a need for the police, just because drugs get legalized, doesn't mean murder, rape and other horrible things go away.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Security and Policing are two very different things, both of which claim the same thing; Protection. Shall we examine the truth of these claims?
> 
> One is a private transaction conducted by a willing buyer and a willing seller as the direct result of on demand need.
> 
> One is a public transaction in which people have their money taken, by force, rationalized by the notion that protection will always be required, so may as well take the money and "protect"!.
> 
> There is no such thing as perfection in the real world when dealing with MANY imperfect human beings. But to believe that Policing is a REQUIREMENT is a grand oversight of morality in the real world.
> 
> Next, if it is true that most of your LEO friends are in it to help the weak - then that personality type is prone to doing such things whether they wear a uniform or not. The needy will be helped as much as possible. The same can be said of health care and education. If it's so important, it will be done to the best our or collective abilities. STEALING to enforce, promote and organize such services is a direct moral and logical contradiction to the very tenants of service you espouse.
> ...



Private security may have integrity, but they get no respect from law breakers -- You have no idea how many times I get called out to a place by a security guard because the criminals don't listen to them and all they can do is call us to handle the situation. Not to mention their jobs are just as dangerous as mine, but most of them can't even carry weapons to defend themselves and if they do, they're fired over it. No matter how you look at it's they're in a $#@!ty situation too.

----------


## AgentforPathfinder

OP,

I hope you read this. If so PM me.

I believe what you've said. Now I am going to say something nice to you that is probably going to piss alot of people on this forum off: I understand where cops are coming from when it comes to cracking down on bad behavior.... when I joined this forum... I pissed alot of the fellow libertarians off because I said I do not like to associate with long-haired pot-smoking libertarians who troll cops or obese NRA guys who wouldn't last a day in army basic training who walk around with their pistol on their hip to make a scene in public. I can understand why that would piss a cop off.

Being a young cop, I assume you are a cleancut guy, who works out alot. Maybe you are an army veteran. Therefore, I respect you for your physical training, firearm skills, and ability to react in hardcore scenarios (dealing with hardened criminals). I respect that the same way I respect MMA fighters or weight-lifters or Navy Seals for their skills. 

That being said, I wish that more men (and women) were capable of being on the same level as cops and soldiers training wise, just as part of doing their duty as an everyday civilian. I don't worship men in uniform at all, or the pageantry of any police/military nationalistic patriotic display, and I want a society where the need for them becomes obsolete, and we all become peacefully involved volunteers doing civic duty.

I wish that all regular people were capable (training-wise) of doing as a civic responsibility what a policeman does as a job. I think as a society, we've got a huge surplus of fatasses and fruitcakes who can't handle their own $#@!, therefore inflating the market value of police work.

I hope you get what I'm saying. I would never troll a cop by doing a hippie-style protest of any kind. I understand though, how frustrated the cops get dealing with little $#@!s who are just trying to be trolls. I think alot of the libertarians who have dealt with police brutality brought negative attention to themselves.

----------


## bolil

> OP,
> 
> I hope you read this. If so PM me.
> 
> I believe what you've said. Now I am going to say something nice to you that is probably going to piss alot of people on this forum off: I understand where cops are coming from when it comes to cracking down on bad behavior.... when I joined this forum... I pissed alot of the fellow libertarians off because I said I do not like to associate with long-haired pot-smoking libertarians who troll cops or obese NRA guys who wouldn't last a day in army basic training who walk around with their pistol on their hip to make a scene in public. I can understand why that would piss a cop off.
> 
> Being a young cop, I assume you are a cleancut guy, who works out alot. Maybe you are an army veteran. Therefore, I respect you for your physical training, firearm skills, and ability to react in hardcore scenarios (dealing with hardened criminals). I respect that the same way I respect MMA fighters or weight-lifters or Navy Seals for their skills. 
> 
> That being said, I wish that more men (and women) were capable of being on the same level as cops and soldiers training wise, just as part of doing their duty as an everyday civilian. I don't worship men in uniform at all, or the pageantry of any police/military nationalistic patriotic display, and I want a society where the need for them becomes obsolete, and we all become peacefully involved volunteers doing civic duty.
> ...


Yeah, $#@!in George Washington... what a troll.  Protesting the authorities, those nice civic minded red coats were just being well trained and deserving respect for being well trained.

----------


## tod evans

> Hero worship of an internet persona


The post I quoted and deleted was $#@!ing nauseating!

This ol' gray-beard would just love to introduce you to the reality I've lived..

----------


## Fivezeroes

> The post I quoted and deleted was $#@!ing nauseating!
> 
> This ol' gray-beard would just love to introduce you to the reality I've lived..



Not sure what I missed, but, something has you pissed.

----------


## devil21

> OP,
> 
> Being a young cop, I assume you are a cleancut guy, who works out alot. Maybe you are an army veteran. Therefore, I respect you for your physical training, firearm skills, and ability to react in hardcore scenarios (dealing with hardened criminals). I respect that the same way I respect MMA fighters or weight-lifters or Navy Seals for their skills.


Strange that your respect apparently goes toward those whose only skills are using physical force against something else.  




> That being said, I wish that more men (and women) were capable of being on the same level as cops and soldiers training wise, just as part of doing their duty as an everyday civilian. I don't worship men in uniform at all, or the pageantry of any police/military nationalistic patriotic display, and I want a society where the need for them becomes obsolete, and we all become peacefully involved volunteers doing civic duty.
> 
> I wish that all regular people were capable (training-wise) of doing as a civic responsibility what a policeman does as a job. I think as a society, we've got a huge surplus of fatasses and fruitcakes who can't handle their own $#@!, therefore inflating the market value of police work.


Im more concerned about the huge surplus of intellectually stunted who can't handle their $#@! but to each his own.




> I hope you get what I'm saying. I would never troll a cop by doing a hippie-style protest of any kind. I understand though, how frustrated the cops get dealing with little $#@!s who are just trying to be trolls. I think alot of the libertarians who have dealt with police brutality brought negative attention to themselves.


Respect my authoritah!  How dare someone question a police officer or protest or exercise any of those piddly rights in the Constitution.  That's trolling and deserves an ass beating by a physically superior and trained specimen in a uniform.  Im not sure if you're calling us trolls or who?  Officer Friendly did start this thread, ya know.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Strange that your respect apparently goes toward those whose only skills are using physical force against something else.  
> 
> 
> 
> Im more concerned about the huge surplus of intellectually stunted who can't handle their $#@! but to each his own.
> 
> 
> 
> Respect my authoritah!  How dare someone question a police officer or protest or exercise any of those piddly rights in the Constitution.  That's trolling and deserves an ass beating by a physically superior and trained specimen in a uniform.  Im not sure if you're calling us trolls or who?  *Officer Friendly did start this thread, ya know.*



Ahh, I love this little moniker. And man, there is such contempt and hatred in your post.

----------


## Red Green

> OP,
> 
> I hope you read this. If so PM me.
> 
> I believe what you've said. Now I am going to say something nice to you that is probably going to piss alot of people on this forum off: I understand where cops are coming from when it comes to cracking down on bad behavior.... when I joined this forum... I pissed alot of the fellow libertarians off because I said I do not like to associate with long-haired pot-smoking libertarians who troll cops or obese NRA guys who wouldn't last a day in army basic training who walk around with their pistol on their hip to make a scene in public. I can understand why that would piss a cop off.
> 
> Being a young cop, I assume you are a cleancut guy, who works out alot. Maybe you are an army veteran. Therefore, I respect you for your physical training, firearm skills, and ability to react in hardcore scenarios (dealing with hardened criminals). I respect that the same way I respect MMA fighters or weight-lifters or Navy Seals for their skills. 
> 
> That being said, I wish that more men (and women) were capable of being on the same level as cops and soldiers training wise, just as part of doing their duty as an everyday civilian. I don't worship men in uniform at all, or the pageantry of any police/military nationalistic patriotic display, and I want a society where the need for them becomes obsolete, and we all become peacefully involved volunteers doing civic duty.
> ...


Stupidest post ever.  I think you landed on the wrong forum.  PoliceOne is always looking for groupies.

----------


## tod evans

> Not sure what I missed, but, something has you pissed.


Click the little blue box in the quoted post and you will be taken to that post..

----------


## Origanalist

> If you're one of the ones insinuating because I'm a cop, that I should be murdered, then yea, you're detestable. If you aren't one that thinks all cops should die, then no, you don't fit in the detestable category. And technically, God's laws aren't enough. How many murderers and thieves has the 10 commandments really stopped? You find me that answer and I'll downright kiss your ass for you. Because from where I'm sitting, they haven't stopped not one murderer or thief.


No, I don't think you should be murdered, depending on how abusive you are. But if you did someting like this http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...34#post4932234 to one of the women in my life, I wouldn't have any problems with taking you out. I'm going to assume you aren't the type to go down that road.

As for Gods laws not being enough, I think that says a lot about how you view yourself junior. Just who's commandment do you think you're enforcing when you bring in a murderer? Just because the state copied Gods commandment doesn't make it theirs. But I'm hardly surprised at your hubris.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...-remain-silent   <--This is a really interesting show and very does a good job of showing how evil the cops at large are.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Ahh, I *love this little moniker.* And man, there is such contempt and hatred in your post.


  It was brought to the forums by AF, IIRC.  And coined by Will Grigg(?).

----------


## The Northbreather

> OP,
> 
> I hope you read this. If so PM me.
> 
> I believe what you've said. Now I am going to say something nice to you that is probably going to piss alot of people on this forum off: I understand where cops are coming from when it comes to cracking down on bad behavior.... when I joined this forum... I pissed alot of the fellow libertarians off because I said I do not like to associate with long-haired pot-smoking libertarians who troll cops or obese NRA guys who wouldn't last a day in army basic training who walk around with their pistol on their hip to make a scene in public. I can understand why that would piss a cop off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow.

Collectivism, intervention, appeal to authority, and a some condescension all rolled into one post.

Were you kidding just then?

----------


## The Northbreather

I feel like three of the posters in this thread are the same person sitting at the exact same computer

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Wow.
> 
> *Collectivism*, intervention, appeal to authority, and a some condescension all rolled into one post.
> 
> Were you kidding just then?


Stereotyping, not collectivism.  The latter is much, much worse.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Again, the 10th amendment gives states the right to tell the feds to go $#@! themselves on this, but, if they don't do it. Then I have a job to uphold. Like I said, most people hate me because I refuse to let them break the law, laws that are afforded to the states through the 10th. If you don't like them then go bitch to your state reps and get them changed. 
> 
> 
> 
> You know I also love this whole God given rights thing as well. *While yes, God did give us all rights and Moses did give us laws to follow, do you think that if we had just the 10 commandments to go by, that the human race wouldn't be even more detestable than it already is?* Does the 10 commandments murderers or thieves, from walking the streets? You know there are two commandments that strictly prohibit thievery and murder, right?


You know that there is a difference between killing/manslaughter and murder, don't you?  (the Torah clearly says "murder"-it is often mistranslated as "kill")  This was understood clearly even by the ancient semites who kept the law brought by Moses.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Stereotyping, not collectivism.  The latter is much, much worse.


I'm going to have to say both with this guys train of thought.

----------


## The Northbreather

> OP,
> 
> I hope you read this. If so PM me.
> 
> I believe what you've said. Now I am going to say something nice to you that is probably going to piss alot of people on this forum off: I understand where cops are coming from when it comes to cracking down on bad behavior.... when I joined this forum... I pissed alot of the fellow libertarians off because I said I do not like to associate with long-haired pot-smoking libertarians who troll cops or obese NRA guys who wouldn't last a day in army basic training who walk around with their pistol on their hip to make a scene in public. I can understand why that would piss a cop off.
> 
> Being a young cop, I assume you are a cleancut guy, who works out alot. Maybe you are an army veteran. Therefore, I respect you for your physical training, firearm skills, and ability to react in hardcore scenarios (dealing with hardened criminals). I respect that the same way I respect MMA fighters or weight-lifters or Navy Seals for their skills. 
> 
> That being said, I wish that more men (and women) were capable of being on the same level as cops and soldiers training wise, just as part of doing their duty as an everyday civilian. I don't worship men in uniform at all, or the pageantry of any police/military nationalistic patriotic display, and I want a society where the need for them becomes obsolete, and we all become peacefully involved volunteers doing civic duty.
> ...



Carlin on male subcultures.   Skip to 3:19

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> If you're one of the ones insinuating because I'm a cop, that I should be murdered, then yea, you're detestable. If you aren't one that thinks all cops should die, then no, you don't fit in the detestable category. And technically, God's laws aren't enough. How many murderers and thieves has the 10 commandments really stopped? You find me that answer and I'll downright kiss your ass for you. Because from where I'm sitting, they haven't stopped not one murderer or thief.


We know that the semitic people saw the 10 commandments as liberating (as they had been long separated from direct "help" from Yahweh).  Their written history indicates the 10 commandments (as well as the other laws) deterred a significant amount of crime. (Exodus and Levitcus go into quite a bit of detail about the law, and later books describe exactly how justice under the convanental law system happened.  Too much detail for me to write here).  See Amy Jill-Levine's "The Old Testament" lectures, published by The Great Courses for more.

----------


## fr33

My interactions with police helped me become a libertarian. That is the only positive thing I can say about them. Every single one of them wanted to steal my money and/or time from me. One of them got me kicked out of school and tried to get me fired from my job. He pulled me over more than 10 times in one year. I still read the local papers hoping to see that he died in a car chase or gang violence etc. 

I've never met a cop who wasn't a bully.

----------


## mrsat_98

> So you're saying that you and the rest of us Americans are some sort of species of their own? LOL I really do feel sad for you, libertarians aren't supposed to break things down into collective groups, such as race and yet, here you are somehow thinking that Americans are above the human species moniker.


You got that all wrong. Legally to reduce people to a species of animals is genocide and to deny it is another count.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocid...fgenocide.html

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocid...ygenocide.html

The system you work for is absolutely and totally criminal and I would not have recognized it myself except a family member who is a retired LEO with a law degree specifically pointed it out to me over twenty years ago. I do not recall a single time I have spoken with him since that he has not turned over something new.

Levying  war against the states is treason, buddy. Your own state code book claims "this State" is a military reservation. If you dig around you will find US "c"itizens are the same as the enemy. Think about it. Every species of intercourse between enemies is illegal unless you buy a license and pay a tax. Do you carry a gun and will you arrest someone for no license plate ? One must pay sales tax to get a license plate. To pay sales tax in effect is treason unless you are a government employee  or an officer of a corporation. The people individually are not necessarily either. pooh pah it if you want to I won it in court against sales tax. 

I have had LEO's (plural) advise me that the prosecutor came to their offices, PD and SO and tell them not to arrest me for that anymore because I am right. other counties may not agree with them but they have all released me since based on a receipt I got from the tow truck company that listed no license plate. What was the argument, yeah buddy I bet your from the same State of wherever that thought I had to pay sales tax. 

Just to make sure You Get It. To reduce people to the level of animal is genocide. We are endowed by our creator with certain rights..... i.e. made in Gods image with dominion over the animals not a species of animal. 

http://iamnotananimal.org/pdfs/I_AM_NOT_AN_ANIMAL.pdf

I apologize if I come across as pushy or talking down to you. I don't mean to but when I see a system that routinely commits crimes that the average person should be killed or spend the rest of their natural life locked in a cage I feel it is my duty to point it out. Its called loving your neighbor as yourself.

----------


## QuickZ06

Please Fivezeroes do something good tomorrow and arrest a corrupt politician instead of throwing tickets at people who really don't have the money nor time to pay for these silly laws the corrupt politicians make up that they do not have to abide by.

----------


## coastie

> Please Fivezeroes do something good tomorrow and arrest a corrupt politician instead of throwing tickets at people who really don't have the money nor time to pay for these silly laws the corrupt politicians make up that they do not have to abide by.


Not happening. He's gotta eat, you know. Put food on the table. Your rights mean $#@! when _this_ man's gotta eat. Those tickets pay his salary.  He made his position on this waaaaaaay earlier in the thread.

----------


## QuickZ06

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=135_1363558290

----------


## QuickZ06

> Not happening. He's gotta eat, you know. Put food on the table. Your rights mean $#@! when _this_ man's gotta eat. Those tickets pay his salary.  He made his position on this waaaaaaay earlier in the thread.


I should just keep my mundane mouth shut........

----------


## The Free Hornet

> Private security may have integrity, but they get no respect from law breakers --


Respect or obedience or do you just not give a $#@!?




> -- You have no idea how many times I get called out to a place by a security guard because the criminals don't listen to them and all they can do is call us to handle the situation.


You work for a protection racket and your first enemy is anybody who can handle the situation themselves.  Your masters don't want other people to handle things.  Ever.




> No matter how you look at it's they're in a $#@!ty situation too.


They don't have to apologize here and if they can't sleep at night, maybe they'll get a few winks on the job.

----------


## Origanalist

> You work for a protection racket and your first enemy is anybody who can handle the situation themselves.  Your masters don't want other people to handle things.  Ever.


Pretty well sums it up. The officer may not see it, but that's exactly how it is out here in mundane land.

----------


## Seraphim

I'm not talking about little old man with a whistle and flashlight. 




> Private security may have integrity, but they get no respect from law breakers -- You have no idea how many times I get called out to a place by a security guard because the criminals don't listen to them and all they can do is call us to handle the situation. Not to mention their jobs are just as dangerous as mine, but most of them can't even carry weapons to defend themselves and if they do, they're fired over it. No matter how you look at it's they're in a $#@!ty situation too.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Respect or obedience or do you just not give a $#@!?
> 
> 
> 
> You work for a protection racket and your first enemy is anybody who can handle the situation themselves.  Your masters don't want other people to handle things.  Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't have to apologize here and if they can't sleep at night, maybe they'll get a few winks on the job.



Your ignorance is showing, especially by even insinuating that I'm a slave. You can't get anymore ignorant. Slaves have no rights period. Slaves can't up and quit a job, slaves can't talk back to their "masters". I sure as hell hope not everyone on these forums thinks the way you think, because if one bad apples makes all of us good cops look bad, then one bad poster such as yourself makes everyone here look bad.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Not happening. He's gotta eat, you know. Put food on the table. Your rights mean $#@! when _this_ man's gotta eat. Those tickets pay his salary.  He made his position on this waaaaaaay earlier in the thread.




Sorry that we can't allow you to be a law breaker coastie, it must really break your heart that you can't go out and do whatever the $#@! you want.

----------


## Origanalist

> Your ignorance is showing, especially by even insinuating that I'm a slave. You can't get anymore ignorant. Slaves have no rights period. Slaves can't up and quit a job, slaves can't talk back to their "masters". I sure as hell hope not everyone on these forums thinks the way you think, because if one bad apples makes all of us good cops look bad, then one bad poster such as yourself makes everyone here look bad.


Rest assured everyone here doesn't think like said poster skippy, some here think you're just awsome...........

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Rest assured everyone here doesn't think like said poster skippy, some here think you're just awsome...........



Ahhh, this post is just dripping with contempt. I love it.

----------


## newbitech

> Sorry that we can't allow you to be a law breaker coastie, it must really break your heart that you can't go out and do whatever the $#@! you want.



but you can

----------


## Fivezeroes

> but you can



Just because I can, doesn't mean I do or would. That's the difference between good cops and bad cops.

----------


## newbitech

> Just because I can, doesn't mean I do or would. That's the difference between good cops and bad cops.


that's the kind of attitude that people rebel against.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> that's the kind of attitude that people rebel against.




What the attitude that because I can break the law, doesn't mean that I do or will? If I started to break the law it turns me into a bad apple just like the ones you see steadily abusing their powers.

----------


## newbitech

> What the attitude that because I can break the law, doesn't mean that I do or will? If I started to break the law it turns me into a bad apple just like the ones you see steadily abusing their powers.


the kind of attitude that makes you think you can.

----------


## Root

> Your ignorance is showing, especially by even insinuating that I'm a slave. You can't get anymore ignorant. Slaves have no rights period. Slaves can't up and quit a job, slaves can't talk back to their "masters". I sure as hell hope not everyone on these forums thinks the way you think, because if one bad apples makes all of us good cops look bad, then one bad poster such as yourself makes everyone here look bad.


Of course you are a slave, just one with a higher rank/stature than myself and most people on this board.  People think that the 13th amendment ended slavery, and maybe for a while it did, that is until the government figured out better ways to hide it from us.

Don't believe me?  Stop paying your income taxes and tell me how much you like the rape cage.  Ask all those people who are in the rape cage for possessing a dried flower if they are slaves of the prison system.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> the kind of attitude that makes you think you can.



Just trying to enforce what you guys already think you know. You seem to think we get away with so much, that we can actually break the law ourselves, so why not play the part, no matter how untrue it is.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Of course you are a slave, just one with a higher rank/stature than myself and most people on this board.  People think that the 13th amendment ended slavery, and maybe for a while it did, that is until the government figured out better ways to hide it from us.
> 
> Don't believe me?  Stop paying your income taxes and tell me how much you like the rape cage.  Ask all those people who are in the rape cage for possessing a dried flower if they are slaves of the prison system.



You almost never hear about someone being raped in club FED. That mostly happens in state prisons. As for people being caught with a dried up flower being in the rape cage, blame local, state and federal laws on that.

----------


## newbitech

> Just trying to enforce what you guys already think you know. You seem to think we get away with so much, that we can actually break the law ourselves, so why not play the part, no matter how untrue it is.


Let's be honest, that is not what you are trying to enforce.  The problem is your attitude.  You think you can wrap yourself in a corrupt system while remaining incorruptible.  

I can see it in your choice of words.  "Why not play the part, no matter how untrue is is?"  

That sir, is a copout.  Your fellow forum members don't get that option.  Most have chosen the exact opposite path.  You may be seeing the light, you are here after all.  Or this could be a fantastic troll attempt.  

I have yet to see where in your life you have taken any kind of action to back up your claimed beliefs.  I don't mean vocal support, vote, or donation.

Those things are all fine and well.  But how is your lifestyle that of personal responsibility and more importantly accountability that comes with freedom and liberty?

You have chosen a career that by it's very nature must bring harm to individuals in the form of physical violence and economic oppression against their will.  You have made it clear that you will "play the part, no matter how untrue it is", of the "enforcer" of injustices under the color of law.  

When will you say enough is enough and stop enforcing unjust laws?

----------


## jclay2

> Of course you are a slave, just one with a higher rank/stature than myself and most people on this board.  People think that the 13th amendment ended slavery, and maybe for a while it did, that is until the government figured out better ways to hide it from us.
> 
> Don't believe me?  Stop paying your income taxes and tell me how much you like the rape cage.  Ask all those people who are in the rape cage for possessing a dried flower if they are slaves of the prison system.


Truth! + rep for stating what needs to be said. We are all slaves and anyone who thinks we aren't is fooling themselves.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Let's be honest, that is not what you are trying to enforce.  The problem is your attitude.  You think you can wrap yourself in a corrupt system while remaining incorruptible.  
> 
> I can see it in your choice of words.  "Why not play the part, no matter how untrue is is?"  
> 
> That sir, is a copout.  Your fellow forum members don't get that option.  Most have chosen the exact opposite path.  You may be seeing the light, you are here after all.  Or this could be a fantastic troll attempt.  
> 
> I have yet to see where in your life you have taken any kind of action to back up your claimed beliefs.  I don't mean vocal support, vote, or donation.
> 
> Those things are all fine and well.  But how is your lifestyle that of personal responsibility and more importantly accountability that comes with freedom and liberty?
> ...



When the state reps reverse the laws that are unjust that is when.

----------


## newbitech

> When the state reps reverse the laws that are unjust that is when.


Well, I think that about ends this thread for me then.   You are just another scumbag cop leaching off what is left of a free country.  You have no sense of justice, and I seriously doubt your motivations for becoming a cop have anything at all to do with helping your community.  

I am sure that is what you must tell yourself at night to make you feel better about being a slave, that you are helping your fellow slave.  And yes, you are a slave as you bow down to your "state reps" aka master.  

Have fun being another man's bitch for the rest of your career.  I am sure it's totally worth the pension and guaranteed paycheck.  I have nothing but contempt for jack booted thugs like you.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Well, I think that about ends this thread for me then.   You are just another scumbag cop leaching off what is left of a free country.  You have no sense of justice, and I seriously doubt your motivations for becoming a cop have anything at all to do with helping your community.  
> 
> I am sure that is what you must tell yourself at night to make you feel better about being a slave, that you are helping your fellow slave.  And yes, you are a slave as you bow down to your "state reps" aka master.  
> 
> Have fun being another man's bitch for the rest of your career.  I am sure it's totally worth the pension and guaranteed paycheck.  I have nothing but contempt for jack booted thugs like you.




Cry more, nothing I could have said or did would change the ignorant opinions that some of you people have against cops.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> Cry more, nothing I could have said or did would change the ignorant opinions that some of you people have against cops.


Well. I don't know. You can't help but see what is happening across the nation with the growing police state . I know a lot of police officers. Many. Have coached with them and all kinds of things. Haven't yet heard of any of them getting into these kinds of situations or being given a thug label. But that's only my own experience. Most of the ones I know, actually all of them, are active in their communities and do good things for youth in general. But on the flipside, what we see all over the web is a reality. Is unfortunate.

----------


## newbitech

> Cry more, nothing I could have said or did would change the ignorant opinions that some of you people have against cops.


typical cop.  what a $#@!ing jerk.  probably more like a troll.  

Why are you here?  Don't you have some overtime to get while standing around with your thumb up your ass?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Well. I don't know. You can't help but see what is happening across the nation with the growing police state . I know a lot of police officers. Many. Have coached with them and all kinds of things. Haven't yet heard of any of them getting into these kinds of situations or being given a thug label. But that's only my own experience. Most of the ones I know, actually all of them, are active in their communities and do good things for youth in general. But on the flipside, what we see all over the web is a rality. Is unfortunate.



So it means that I should sit back and allow myself to be disrespected? I don't even live in the same state as half the people up here that hate my guts and yet, here they are steadily hating me for doing a job?  And I know it's not everyone here, mostly ignorant people who are pissed off because the states wont allow them to break every law on the book. I don't deserve to be disrespected, because I haven't disrespected anyone here, that hasn't disrespect me first. `

----------


## Fivezeroes

> typical cop.  what a $#@!ing jerk.  probably more like a troll.  
> 
> Why are you here?  Don't you have some overtime to get while standing around with your thumb up your ass?


Are you still crying? Get over it.  And no, I don't have any overtime to get today, so I get to have such pleasant conversations with the good people of RPF.

----------


## Wooden Indian

I owe an apology.

When I started reading this thread a week ago, I was a little put off by how some of you reacted to this cop... Now, afer he has had some time to settle in and get comfortable, his true colors are showing. You saw it coming while I did not.

Lesson learned... you guys were right... I was wrong.

----------


## jclay2

Lol... This thread is getting hilarious.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I owe an apology.
> 
> When I started reading this thread a week ago, I was a little put off by how some of you reacted to this cop... Now, afer he has had some time to settle in and get comfortable, his true colors are showing. You saw it coming while I did not.
> 
> Lesson learned... you guys were right... I was wrong.



You can't expect me to sit back and take the bull$#@! being slung at me without being the least little bit upset about it. First and foremost, I'm a human. Doesn't matter if I have a badge or not, like most of you, I'm not going to sit back and be a pacifist while someone blatantly disrespects me. That has nothing to do with being a cop.

----------


## newbitech

> You can't expect me to sit back and take the bull$#@! being slung at me without being the least little bit upset about it. First and foremost, I'm a human. Doesn't matter if I have a badge or not, like most of you, I'm not going to sit back and be a pacifist while someone blatantly disrespects me. That has nothing to do with being a cop.


You should be pissed at yourself for going against your supposed principles and enforcing bull$#@! laws.  You think it's a-ok since some other man with "authority" over your actions said it was ok.  

That is the only bull$#@! in this thread.  

You have given no one any reason to respect you.

----------


## newbitech

> Are you still crying? Get over it.  And no, I don't have any overtime to get today, so I get to have such pleasant conversations with the good people of RPF.


are you still pretending to be an honest person?

----------


## jclay2

> You can't expect me to sit back and take the bull$#@! being slung at me without being the least little bit upset about it. First and foremost, I'm a human. Doesn't matter if I have a badge or not, like most of you, I'm not going to sit back and be a pacifist while someone blatantly disrespects me. That has nothing to do with being a cop.


Take a chill pill man. It is the internet. Sometimes it is better to sit back like a pacifist then charging your way to page 200 in a thread. Just agree to disagree and be done with it.

----------


## phill4paul

> I owe an apology.
> 
> When I started reading this thread a week ago, I was a little put off by how some of you reacted to this cop... Now, afer he has had some time to settle in and get comfortable, his true colors are showing. You saw it coming while I did not.
> 
> Lesson learned... you guys were right... I was wrong.


  It was only a matter of time. You should see how quick cops go from 0-60 when you 'disrespect' them in public.

----------


## Root

> You almost never hear about someone being raped in club FED. That mostly happens in state prisons. As for people being caught with a dried up flower being in the rape cage, blame* local, state and federal laws* on that.


What other laws are there?  I blame you and your coworkers, for enforcing the unconstitutional laws as much as I blame the $#@! legislators for writing them.

Just because you don't hear about rape in federal prisons doesn't mean it isn't happening.  I'm not surprised you consider it a "club" however.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You should be pissed at yourself for going against your supposed principles and enforcing bull$#@! laws.  You think it's a-ok since some other man with "authority" over your actions said it was ok.  
> 
> That is the only bull$#@! in this thread.  
> 
> You have given no one any reason to respect you.


So by me, not treating each and everyone of you with the utmost respect, even with you guys steadily slinging insults my way, that is somehow bull$#@!? The only time I started getting pissed off in return was when people started to say because I'm a cop, my life is meaningless. All of you non-police seem to believe that it's just so damn easy to stop enforcing laws you consider unjust. Well, try walking a mile in my shoes and you'll realize just how impossible it is. 

You think you can do my job better than me? i'll gladly trade places with you for a week, lets see if you feel the same way then. Until you can say, you've been on both sides of the line, you have no right to criticize me.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> are you still pretending to be an honest person?



You can question whatever you want, but, don't ever question my honesty. That's not even right.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> What other laws are there?  I blame you and your coworkers, for enforcing the unconstitutional laws as much as I blame the $#@! legislators for writing them.
> 
> Just because you don't hear about rape in federal prisons doesn't mean it isn't happening.  I'm not surprised you consider it a "club" however.



You've never heard of federal being called club FED? Anyway, you blame me and my co-workers for doing something that is sanctioned via the 10th amendment? You see, you can't just use specific parts of the constitution and completely ignore those that go against what you fight for.

----------


## newbitech

> *So by me, not treating each and everyone of you with the utmost respect, even with you guys steadily slinging insults my way, that is somehow bull$#@!?* The only time I started getting pissed off in return was when people started to say because I'm a cop, my life is meaningless. All of you non-police seem to believe that it's just so damn easy to stop enforcing laws you consider unjust. Well, try walking a mile in my shoes and you'll realize just how impossible it is. 
> 
> You think you can do my job better than me? i'll gladly trade places with you for a week, lets see if you feel the same way then. Until you can say, you've been on both sides of the line, you have no right to criticize me.


yeah, as a matter of fact it is.  Your $#@!ing job is paid for by people like me.  I expect you first and foremost to protect my natural rights as a human being.  Even if it means telling your piece of $#@! boss to $#@! off and refusing to support his god damn bull$#@! laws.  If that gets your fired.  You have my respect.  But if you decide to pussy up and enforce his bull$#@! laws anyways, because if not you will lose your job, then no bitch, you deserve to get treated like $#@!, because that's exactly how you would treat others to protect your damn self.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> So it means that I should sit back and allow myself to be disrespected? I don't even live in the same state as half the people up here that hate my guts and yet, here they are steadily hating me for doing a job?  And I know it's not everyone here, mostly ignorant people who are pissed off because the states wont allow them to break every law on the book. I don't deserve to be disrespected, because I haven't disrespected anyone here, that hasn't disrespect me first. `


Meh. Have to have thick skin around here. It's not like you didn't know you walked into a lions cage smelling like a freshly cut porterhouse. Cripes, we have a lot of good representatives who are given a place at the table here and they do a good job over all. But they're also wide out in the open to get hammered on things people disagree with too. Heck, I just got done griping about one over in the other thread. Doesn't mean that i don't respect his occupation or even his platform in scope. Just some of the simple stuff that doesn't make a lick of sense.

----------


## newbitech

> You can question whatever you want, but, don't ever question my honesty. That's not even right.


You lie to yourself for starters.  You tell yourself you are helping your community when what you are really doing is leaching off it and perpetuating the myth that it's ok for good cops to enforce bad laws.  It's not.  If you want to help your community, give away all of your salary until what you have left is equal to the poverty line. 

Then you will start to begin to understand how hard that life is.  Then MAYBE you might begin to understand how much more hard it is with people like you running around looking for any excuse to infringe upon someones right in order to justify your non-servant wage.

----------


## newbitech

> You've never heard of federal being called club FED? Anyway, you blame me and my co-workers for doing something that is sanctioned via the 10th amendment? You see, you can't just use specific parts of the constitution and completely ignore those that go against what you fight for.


invoking the 10th?  How about invoking some damn common sense?

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Can't we all just... get along?  We do have Oathkeepers here who shut their mouths for this very thing.

----------


## newbitech

> Can't we all just... get along?  We do have Oathkeepers here who shut their mouths for this very thing.


Yeah, I am about done here.  there is no way this guy is ready to be an oathkeeper.  He's gonna do whatever his boss tells him. Period. He thinks its fine and dandy.

I keep hearing that about Oathkeepers shutting their mouths here for the contempt.  But you know what?  If they want to come in here and sound like this guy, they ought keep their mouths shut.  

I am sure its really hard to be a cop and liberty activist.  But you know what?  It's hard to be a Garbage Collector and liberty activist too.  It's just plain hard to be a liberty activist, and somehow, I don't think being a cop and being a liberty activist is deserving of some kind of special treatment.

In fact, that is the problem with cops.  So many people think they deserve special treatment.  Like they are some kind of special class of people.  That is what fuels this idiocy of cops being above the damn law.  That is what further fuels idiot legislators in thinking they can write any bull$#@! they damn well please and call it a law.  That crap will get enforced, and no one will question the enforcers.  It's called oppression.  And if people want to be a part of that, then they deserve every ounce of criticism and contempt they get.  

I am sure they can do like everyone else has had to do and knuckle up and find different types of work if it came down to it.  No excuses.

----------


## jkr

really man its not personal AT ALL, I dont know you.
 it is, unfortunately, *systemic*

i blame it on division of labor.
 the "police" seem to think they are the white bloodcells of the body politic and they must ATTACK anything they deem a threat ( or "disrespectful"), they are not.

we all have an INDIVIDUAL DUTY to protect the world around us from tyrants of ANY STRIPE.
abdicating our responsibility and differing OUR POWER to any individual, or group, is what got us in this position.

IF  a third party is involved in a dispute it should be because the old widows or retards cannot help themselves...but "cops" are BLOWING AWAY the old widows & retards, and dogs, and Oscar Grants ( we call that murder-its a LEGAL term)...so now what

if the services rendered are not being provided for the cost demanded is that theft, fraud, or taxation without representation?

No one should have ever been granted a monopoly on force.
gosh, were cops like this 30 years ago when i was a kid?

oh, and "just following orders" is just NOT going to cut it anymore.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Yeah, I am about done here.  there is no way this guy is ready to be an oathkeeper.  He's gonna do whatever his boss tells him. Period. He thinks its fine and dandy.
> 
> I keep hearing that about Oathkeepers shutting their mouths here for the contempt.  But you know what?  If they want to come in here and sound like this guy, they ought keep their mouths shut.  
> 
> I am sure its really hard to be a cop and liberty activist.  But you know what?  It's hard to be a Garbage Collector and liberty activist too.  It's just plain hard to be a liberty activist, and somehow, I don't think being a cop and being a liberty activist is deserving of some kind of special treatment.
> 
> In fact, that is the problem with cops.  So many people think they deserve special treatment.  Like they are some kind of special class of people.  That is what fuels this idiocy of cops being above the damn law.  That is what further fuels idiot legislators in thinking they can write any bull$#@! they damn well please and call it a law.  That crap will get enforced, and no one will question the enforcers.  It's called oppression.  And if people want to be a part of that, then they deserve every ounce of criticism and contempt they get.  
> 
> I am sure they can do like everyone else has had to do and knuckle up and find different types of work if it came down to it.  No excuses.





First off i never requested special treatment, i just asked for the same amount of respect i have given every one here. Im not speaking as a cop when i have to defend myself against the constant bs being slung my way. If you notice my posts the only time i have disrespected any one is when they first disrespected me. Again, that's not happenin because im a cop im doing it because like any other human i deserve to be respected too. No one here would be throwing the amount of insults out of i were a garbage person. But, because i wear a shield, i somehow deserve it? I don't get it.

----------


## Red Green

> When the state reps reverse the laws that are unjust that is when.


That's funny, you keep insisting you're not a slave yet when people ask you why you enforce unjust laws, you claim the state is the one who decides that.

You're getting yourself all twisted into a pretzel trying to justify being a pig.

----------


## newbitech

> First off i never requested special treatment, i just asked for the same amount of respect i have given every one here. Im not speaking as a cop when i have to defend myself against the constant bs being slung my way. If you notice my posts the only time i have disrespected any one is when they first disrespected me. Again, that's not happenin because im a cop im doing it because like any other human i deserve to be respected too. No one here would be throwing the amount of insults out of i were a garbage person. But, because i wear a shield, i somehow deserve it? I don't get it.


No you don't get it.  You think enforcing unjust laws is fine as long as they are "on the book".  A garbage person who went around throwing garbage out of the truck instead of putting garbage into would get treated the same way.

When you tell me that you will only stop enforcing unjust laws when your boss the legislator takes the law off the book, that is the same thing as telling me that you will come by my house and throw $#@! in it.  

No, I don't live around you, yet I am surrounded by you.  Someone does live around you who feels the same way.  

If you want respect, you can start by admitting that there is no way that you can do your job as a cop without eventually being confronted by the hypocrisy of the laws.

That is a start.  Then should you decide to follow thru with actions by challenging that hypocrisy on the fundamental level of no allowing your actions to be justified by the hypocrisy, you will then earn not only the respect, but the admiration that you would deserve for taking a risk and standing for liberty.  

Will you do that?  Will you "risk" your career, your future, your kids future to stand up for what is right?

----------


## jay_dub

> First off i never requested special treatment, i just asked for the same amount of respect i have given every one here. Im not speaking as a cop when i have to defend myself against the constant bs being slung my way. If you notice my posts the only time i have disrespected any one is when they first disrespected me. Again, that's not happenin because im a cop im doing it because like any other human i deserve to be respected too. No one here would be throwing the amount of insults out of i were a garbage person. But, because i wear a shield, i somehow deserve it? I don't get it.


If you're really liberty minded, you could stop calling your badge a shield. A shield is something you hide behind.

I haven't read all this thread and don't think all cops are 'bad', but I'm old enough to have seen 'To Protect and Serve' become a $#@!ing joke.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No you don't get it.  You think enforcing unjust laws is fine as long as they are "on the book".  A garbage person who went around throwing garbage out of the truck instead of putting garbage into would get treated the same way.
> 
> When you tell me that you will only stop enforcing unjust laws when your boss the legislator takes the law off the book, that is the same thing as telling me that you will come by my house and throw $#@! in it.  
> 
> No, I don't live around you, yet I am surrounded by you.  Someone does live around you who feels the same way.  
> 
> If you want respect, you can start by admitting that there is no way that you can do your job as a cop without eventually being confronted by the hypocrisy of the laws.
> 
> That is a start.  Then should you decide to follow thru with actions by challenging that hypocrisy on the fundamental level of no allowing your actions to be justified by the hypocrisy, you will then earn not only the respect, but the admiration that you would deserve for taking a risk and standing for liberty.  
> ...


Obviously im taking a huge risk just by posting on these very forums. There are only so many unjust laws i can ignore. Do you think i truly care what drug you want to smoke? I'll tell you something that another officer told me while we were training. Laws don't exist to bind us, they exist so that you may know your freedoms. He was a wise cop, sadly someone decided his life wasn't worth a $#@!. They shot him 20 minutes after he bought some kid lunch, a kid he didn't even know. But, yea all cops are bad, at least according to this place.

----------


## Red Green

> *First off i never requested special treatment, i just asked for the same amount of respect i have given every one here.* Im not speaking as a cop when i have to defend myself against the constant bs being slung my way. If you notice my posts the only time i have disrespected any one is when they first disrespected me. Again, that's not happenin because im a cop im doing it because like any other human i deserve to be respected too. No one here would be throwing the amount of insults out of i were a garbage person. *But, because i wear a shield, i somehow deserve it? I don't get it.*


Well, again this is nothing personal but you are not like everyone here.  Generally speaking, the people here don't like government one bit.  They don't like people who feed off the government's ill-gotten riches and they especially don't like people who do so while violating the rights of the people directly, like you do.  Many of us, including me, could have a nice cushy job with great benefits and a pension if we were to just put our principals aside and join on with the government.  I for one refuse to do it.  I will not work for the government, period.  Now if I had a chance to actually make a difference and I really believed I could do something for the cause, I might consider going to work as an inside man, but that takes a special person and a special situation.  I think we all hope you'll be that guy.  But obviously you're not.  So the question of whether you deserve the same respect as the rest of us comes down to the fact that you're a cop, and as a result, no you're not on the same plane as us.  I think what is coming your way should be expected by you and honestly, if you really love liberty, you should understand and take it realizing that you are not serving the cause of liberty like many here are.  Even those who don't do nearly enough, like myself, I can say I never violate people's rights as a matter of my daily routine.  That's why most of us have a problem with you, and it's not personal.  Again I hope you find Jesus or whatever and become the liberty warrior we all aspire to be, but from some of the things you have said I would say you are a long way from it.

----------


## newbitech

> Obviously im taking a huge risk just by posting on these very forums. There are only so many unjust laws i can ignore. Do you think i truly care what drug you want to smoke? I'll tell you something that another officer told me while we were training. Laws don't exist to bind us, they exist so that you may know your freedoms. He was a wise cop, sadly someone decided his life wasn't worth a $#@!. They shot him 20 minutes after he bought some kid lunch, a kid he didn't even know. But, yea all cops are bad, at least according to this place.


you haven't really said anything risky on these very forums.  sounds like if I was your cop boss I'd give you a medal for "community outreach".  

"there are so many unjust laws"  you can ignore.  Right.  But you are fine with that.  You didn't join the "force" to uphold justice.  If you did, you'd be looking for something else to do by now.  Yeah, you care because if I smoke tobacco, you don't get to make a living off it, but if I smoke crack you get paid to try and stop me. 

If you believe what that "wise cop" told you then you are a fool.  If laws are what define your freedom, you are indeed bound to the law.  Laws are a natural part of being a living creature.  It's when usurpers and oppressors decide to twist the law to their will and find people like you and your old "wise cop" pal to enforce them that laws become unnatural.  Somehow your masters have gone a step further and convinced most people to accept the unnatural as right and the natural as wrong.  

That is being reversed now.  It's sad when people die for unnatural reasons.  What's even more sad is when people have their lives ruined or even die at the hands of people who have the attitude that enforcing unnatural and unjust laws is just part of doing business.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> you haven't really said anything risky on these very forums.  sounds like if I was your cop boss I'd give you a medal for "community outreach".  
> 
> "there are so many unjust laws"  you can ignore.  Right.  But you are fine with that.  You didn't join the "force" to uphold justice.  If you did, you'd be looking for something else to do by now.  Yeah, you care because if I smoke tobacco, you don't get to make a living off it, but if I smoke crack you get paid to try and stop me. 
> 
> If you believe what that "wise cop" told you then you are a fool.  If laws are what define your freedom, you are indeed bound to the law.  Laws are a natural part of being a living creature.  It's when usurpers and oppressors decide to twist the law to their will and find people like you and your old "wise cop" pal to enforce them that laws become unnatural.  Somehow your masters have gone a step further and convinced most people to accept the unnatural as right and the natural as wrong.  
> 
> That is being reversed now.  It's sad when people die for unnatural reasons.  What's even more sad is when people have their lives ruined or even die at the hands of people who have the attitude that enforcing unnatural and unjust laws is just part of doing business.




Were the 10 commandments not the laws of god? So basically we're inherently bound to begin with.

----------


## Thor

> When will you say enough is enough and stop enforcing unjust laws?





> When the state reps reverse the laws that are unjust that is when.


Nazi Stormtroopers were just following the laws as well.  Good luck with that.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Nazi Stormtroopers were just following the laws as well.  Good luck with that.



And I have already said if they try to pass gun confiscation, I will leave the force. So there are laws that I will ignore.

----------


## newbitech

> Were the 10 commandments not the laws of god? So basically we're inherently bound to begin with.


then your "wise cop" friend is just a dumbass?  What makes you think he was so wise?  

My point was, laws exist naturally.  I am not bound to the law.  I am the law.  Get it?  You ought to.  Difference is, you are the unnatural law.  I am the natural law. 

You have a choice to make.  You can be part of the natural world that is full of freedom and justice.  Or you can continue to dilute yourself and remain a part of the unnatural world where you are an oppressor and slave to your usurper.

----------


## jkr

> Were the 10 commandments not the laws of god? So basically we're inherently bound to begin with.


Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. —John 13:33-35 (KJV)

----------


## Fivezeroes

> then your "wise cop" friend is just a dumbass?  What makes you think he was so wise?  
> 
> My point was, laws exist naturally.  I am not bound to the law.  I am the law.  Get it?  You ought to.  Difference is, you are the unnatural law.  I am the natural law. 
> 
> You have a choice to make.  You can be part of the natural world that is full of freedom and justice.  Or you can continue to dilute yourself and remain a part of the unnatural world where you are an oppressor and slave to your usurper.



You aren't the law, you can keep thinking you are, but when someone like me comes along and throws you in a cage for breaking said law, I'm now the bad guy.

----------


## seapilot

> Take a chill pill man. It is the internet. Sometimes it is better to sit back like a pacifist then charging your way to page 200 in a thread. Just agree to disagree and be done with it.


I think they took the red pill. Imagine the conflict in thinking that always follows right after. What a person wants to believe is not true and people struggle with understanding what they were taught and the truth. I admit I went through it and at first that is all a person can think about. 

This individual wrote at the top of the thread Confessions of an active duty police officer, what does confession mean?

*con·fes·sion  
/kənˈfeSHən/
Noun
A formal statement admitting that one is guilty of a crime.
An admission or acknowledgment that one has done something that one is ashamed or embarrassed about.
*

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I think they took the red pill. Imagine the conflict in thinking that always follows right after. What a person wants to believe is not true and people struggle with understanding what they were taught and the truth. I admit I went through it and at first that is all a person can think about. 
> 
> This individual wrote at the top of the thread Confessions of an active duty police officer, what does confession mean?
> 
> *con·fes·sion  
> /kənˈfeSHən/
> Noun
> A formal statement admitting that one is guilty of a crime.
> An admission or acknowledgment that one has done something that one is ashamed or embarrassed about.
> *




I do a lot of things I am ashamed and embarrassed about. I am at least man enough to admit that, most here think they're saints compared to me.

----------


## newbitech

> You aren't the law, you can keep thinking you are, but when someone like me comes along and throws you in a cage for breaking said law, I'm now the bad guy.


I don't think you know what the law is.  I will keep thinking I am, and you can try and you can expect me to defend myself when someone like you comes along.  There is no law I am capable of breaking in the natural world.  In you world however, I am sure there are people dedicated to making long lists of such things.  You can call them laws, I call them excuses.  So keep enforcing excuses and when someone like me comes along and throws you in a cage for being the animal that you are, I will gladly wear the label of "bad guy" and wear it proudly.

----------


## jay_dub

I'm not one to say we don't need police. There are too many 'real' crimes happening to not have one. Now, police may not prevent much crime, but they do catch some of the criminals.

What I have a problem with is that most police forces have become revenue streams for their city. More laws = more lawbreakers = more revenue in the form of fines. They also take federal grants which makes them a virtual arm of the federal government. Most every city has a SWAT team, usually financed by federal grants. The mentality that permeates these teams filters down through the whole department. What we wind up with has a lot of parallels with the Nazis. 

We may need cops and they do provide a service to society. That doesn't mean they have a blank check to do as they please.

----------


## seapilot

> I don't think you know what the law is.  I will keep thinking I am, and you can try and you can expect me to defend myself when someone like you comes along.  There is no law I am capable of breaking in the natural world.  In you world however, I am sure there are people dedicated to making long lists of such things.  You can call them laws, I call them excuses.  So keep enforcing excuses and when someone like me comes along and throws you in a cage for being the animal that you are, I will gladly wear the label of "bad guy" and wear it proudly.


I think many people are conditioned to believe men make laws where its really rules are made rather than laws. For example going over the speed limit is not breaking a law but breaking the rule.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I don't think you know what the law is.  I will keep thinking I am, and you can try and you can expect me to defend myself when someone like you comes along.  There is no law I am capable of breaking in the natural world.  In you world however, I am sure there are people dedicated to making long lists of such things.  You can call them laws, I call them excuses.  So keep enforcing excuses and when someone like me comes along and throws you in a cage for being the animal that you are, I will gladly wear the label of "bad guy" and wear it proudly.



You can try to throw me in a cage if you like, don't think that's gonna go well for you though. And that's not the cop in my talking.

----------


## phill4paul

> You can try to throw me in a cage if you like, don't think that's gonna go well for you though. And that's not the cop in my talking.


  Ah, a come to Jesus moment. Now apply that line of reasoning to 'civilians.'

----------


## Todd

> When will you say enough is enough and stop enforcing unjust laws?





> *When the state reps reverse the laws that are unjust that is when*.


This is one of the single most ignorant posts I have ever read in the 5 1/2 years I've been here.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess you're pretty young and inexperienced.  But pretty much suggesting you are going to violate someones rights until someone changes the laws dictating it isn't going to win you too many friends here pal.

Immoral and illegal laws are just that.  You have no business enforcing anything of the sort.  If it violates someones freedom of speech you have no right.  If it's lying to do an illegal search you have no right.  Based on what you are trolling here one could gather you would enforce the law of "primae noctis" should our beloved leaders so much as deem it "lawful".   Bull$#@!.

There are many posters on this forum who are/were former Law enforcement, military.  Why don't you poll some of them and see if you get a bunch of +reps and Kudos on your world views?

You just got a strike from me.

----------


## newbitech

> You can try to throw me in a cage if you like, don't think that's gonna go well for you though. And that's not the cop in my talking.


mmm hmm..

----------


## Seraphim

Strike 2?

Originally Posted by green73  
It's not collectivist. The police are now a standing army in the US. When the SHTF you will see the real reason for their existence, and won't be for the protection of the mundanes.

Me: This. Supported by this:


 Originally Posted by Fivezeroes :

*You don't grant a $#@!ing thing, You better get that through your thick ass skull. Your name isn't on my paycheck, your name doesn't mean a damn thing to me. Now, when you start signing my paychecks, then maybe I'll listen to you.

Clearing that six figures has me also working on my days off for other companies that hire cops to do security detail. That six figures doesn't come from your tax money son, so don't worry where i make my money.*




> This is one of the single most ignorant posts I have ever read in the 5 1/2 years I've been here.
> 
> I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess you're pretty young and inexperienced.  But pretty much suggesting you are going to violate someones rights until someone changes the laws dictating it isn't going to win you too many friends here pal.
> 
> Immoral and illegal laws are just that.  You have no business enforcing anything of the sort.  If it violates someones freedom of speech you have no right.  If it's lying to do an illegal search you have no right.  Based on what you are trolling here one could gather you would enforce the law of "primae noctis" should our beloved leaders so much as deem it "lawful".   Bull$#@!.
> 
> There are many posters on this forum who are/were former Law enforcement, military.  Why don't you poll some of them and see if you get a bunch of +reps and Kudos on your world views?
> 
> You just got a strike from me.

----------


## Root

I've been wondering, are all of the cops in your department "good" cops?  If not, how many of the bad cops have your arrested yet?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> This is one of the single most ignorant posts I have ever read in the 5 1/2 years I've been here.
> 
> I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and guess you're pretty young and inexperienced.  But pretty much suggesting you are going to violate someones rights until someone changes the laws dictating it isn't going to win you too many friends here pal.
> 
> Immoral and illegal laws are just that.  You have no business enforcing anything of the sort.  If it violates someones freedom of speech you have no right.  If it's lying to do an illegal search you have no right.  Based on what you are trolling here one could gather you would enforce the law of "primae noctis" should our beloved leaders so much as deem it "lawful".   Bull$#@!.
> 
> There are many posters on this forum who are/were former Law enforcement, military.  Why don't you poll some of them and see if you get a bunch of +reps and Kudos on your world views?
> 
> You just got a strike from me.




So by being honest, I deserve a strike? Hmm. interesting. Until, the state reps do something about the drug laws there isn't anything I can do. I can't just say "Oh, hey, you have 30 plants growing in your house, okay, run along now" I have to report $#@! like that, no matter how stupid I find it. As someone who used to partake heavily of the herb back during my college years, and high school years, and some of junior high..... I know how stupid it is to charge someone for this. But, again, my hands are tied until the state reps do something about it. 

There is one state law that I wouldn't enforce, that one having to do with married people can only have sex missionary style. That's just a ridiculous law. And if they ever passed a gun confiscation law here, I'd turn in my badge in a heartbeat.


Oh and I'm really not here to play nice nice with you guys, to be honest, I already know you don't like me, so why should I care for your strike system?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I've been wondering, are all of the cops in your department "good" cops?  If not, how many of the bad cops have your arrested yet?



I don't know of one cop in my department that has committed the crap you see online here. But, it's up to IA to arrest dirty cops.

----------


## newbitech

> I don't know of one cop in my department that has committed the crap you see online here. But, it's up to IA to arrest dirty cops.


always someone else responsibility to do the right thing.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Can't we all just... get along?  We do have Oathkeepers here who shut their mouths for this very thing.


Told ya.

Now _you_ want everyone to stop fighting?

WTH?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> always someone else responsibility to do the right thing.



IA is in charge of doing that, they don't like for us to step on their toes, especially when they're tracking dirty cops.

----------


## JK/SEA

> IA is in charge of doing that, they don't like for us to step on their toes, especially when they're tracking dirty cops.


so?...could be IA needs toes stepped on, and your corrupt unions. Whats the worst that could happen?...you lose your job?...lol

----------


## Fivezeroes

> so?...could be IA needs toes stepped on, and your corrupt unions. Whats the worst that could happen?...you lose your job?...lol



No, dirty cops go straight to jail. They don't get a slap on the wrist. There is nothing and I mean nothing worse than a dirty cop, especially in law enforcement. We put dirty cops up there with child molesters and murderers.

----------


## newbitech

> so?...could be IA needs toes stepped on, and your corrupt unions. Whats the worst that could happen?...you lose your job?...lol


but he'd be more than willing to lose his job over gun confiscation.  However, its not worth losing his job if he finds out one of his buddies is abusing the power to issue tickets and lying in the reports.  

He's got bigger fish to fry apparently.  He is doing us a greater service by making sure he is there for when gun confiscation goes into effect.  Wouldn't want to risk not being in the right place at the right time to tell his boss to shove it!

----------


## newbitech

> No, dirty cops go straight to jail. They don't get a slap on the wrist. There is nothing and I mean nothing worse than a dirty cop, especially in law enforcement. We put dirty cops up there with child molesters and murderers.


...and DUI's, and smokers, and people who use gold as money, and people who talk back, and dealers, and whores, and just about everyone else...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> but he'd be more than willing to lose his job over gun confiscation.  However, its not worth losing his job if he finds out one of his buddies is abusing the power to issue tickets and lying in the reports.  
> 
> He's got bigger fish to fry apparently.  He is doing us a greater service by making sure he is there for when gun confiscation goes into effect.  Wouldn't want to risk not being in the right place at the right time to tell his boss to shove it!



A cop abusing his powers writing tickets and lying on reports does not make him dirty, it makes him an idiot. Dirty cops are those that allow themselves to be bribed and bought. Now, if I pulled over a fellow officer for DUI, I'd arrest him or if I got called out to an officers home for domestic problems, I'd arrest him for that. But, I can't arrest him or her for fudging the paperwork. The higher ups have to take care of something like that.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> ...and DUI's, and smokers, and people who use gold as money, and people who talk back, and dealers, and whores, and just about everyone else...


Nah, those don't even crack the top 5, as part of humanities worst.

----------


## The Northbreather

> IA is in charge of doing that, they don't like for us to step on their toes, especially when they're tracking dirty cops.


Who watches IA then?

The organization you work for is a lost cause because like most governmental bureaucracies, it is based on secrecy and compartmentalization and has zero accountability to the average citizen. 

You being a foot soldier have no real clue who dictates your policy.


Total transparency an local accountability and built in deterrence (competing private local security forces based on reputation and/or an armed population) is the only check against corruption this is the opposite of the status quo.

The whole "IA will take care of it" thing is a complete joke

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Who watches IA then?
> 
> The organization you work for is a lost cause because like most governmental bureaucracies, it is based on secrecy and compartmentalization and has zero accountability to the average citizen. 
> 
> You being a foot soldier have non real clue who dictates your policy.
> 
> 
> Total transparency an local accountability and built in deterrence (competing private local security forces based on reputation and/or an armed population) is the only check against corruption this is the opposite of the status quo.
> 
> The whole "IA will take care of it" thing is a complete joke



Chief of Police is in charge of IA, and the Chief only reports to the comish and mayor.

----------


## newbitech

> A cop abusing his powers writing tickets and lying on reports does not make him dirty, it makes him an idiot. Dirty cops are those that allow themselves to be bribed and bought. Now, if I pulled over a fellow officer for DUI, I'd arrest him or if I got called out to an officers home for domestic problems, I'd arrest him for that. But, I can't arrest him or her for fudging the paperwork. The higher ups have to take care of something like that.


way to lower the bar...

----------


## newbitech

> Nah, those don't even crack the top 5, as part of humanities worst.


right, they are just a good place to attach the leaches.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> way to lower the bar...


Again, being honest. As a regular patrolman, I cannot discipline a fellow officer. Like the military, we do have a rank structure we have to follow. SGT --> LT --> CPT --> Chief --> Comish.

And you hope to God, you never have to go higher than the Captain.

----------


## newbitech

> Again, being honest. As a regular patrolman, I cannot discipline a fellow officer. Like the military, we do have a rank structure we have to follow. SGT --> LT --> CPT --> Chief --> Comish.
> 
> And you hope to God, you never have to go higher than the Captain.


yeah we all know what happens when a guy tries to speak out against injustice in your line of "work".

----------


## belian78

> So by me, not treating each and everyone of you with the utmost respect, even with you guys steadily slinging insults my way, that is somehow bull$#@!? The only time I started getting pissed off in return was when people started to say because I'm a cop, my life is meaningless. All of you non-police seem to believe that it's just so damn easy to stop enforcing laws you consider unjust. Well, try walking a mile in my shoes and you'll realize just how impossible it is. 
> 
> You think you can do my job better than me? i'll gladly trade places with you for a week, lets see if you feel the same way then. Until you can say, you've been on both sides of the line, you have no right to criticize me.


Others can stand up for our rights, the way the are supposed to.  Why is it so much harder for you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3bg2C3ly3w

----------


## belian78

> I do a lot of things I am ashamed and embarrassed about. I am at least man enough to admit that, most here think they're saints compared to me.


No, a real man wouldn't do things that bring them shame and embarrassement.  Real men, if put in a situation where there were asked to do something against their beliefs, don't do them.  They don't make excuses.  You are no man, you a a child in a grown ups body, using your children as justification for being the forceful arm of the state.

----------


## Red Green

> I don't know of one cop in my department that has committed the crap you see online here. But, it's up to IA to arrest dirty cops.


So you're only willing to enforce the law on the mundanes and not the pigs?  Interesting....

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No, a real man wouldn't do things that bring them shame and embarrassement.  Real men, if put in a situation where there were asked to do something against their beliefs, don't do them.  They don't make excuses.  You are no man, you a a child in a grown ups body, using your children as justification for being the forceful arm of the state.



Once again, you make it sound so easy. I wish that everyone could be a cop for just one week.... you'd see where i'm coming from.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Chief of Police is in charge of IA, and the Chief only reports to the comish and mayor.


Exactly. It's a whole bureaucracy  not meant to serve the people , because it can't by design ^ but to oppress them and keep the corrupt hierarchy in place.

They are using *you* as a crusher to preserve a $#@!ed up system and you are allowing it. 

The only antidote is total personal liberty and total personal responsibility which is the polar opposite of what *you* do every day when *you* "put on that badge" and enforce crony laws/preserve corruption.

*You* make a personal choice to endorse this system by *your* very involvement in restricting liberty by use of force. 

Truth.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So you're only willing to enforce the law on the mundanes and not the pigs?  Interesting....


You're reading way too far into that statement.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Exactly. It's a whole bureaucracy  not meant to serve the people , because it can't by design ^ but to oppress them and keep the corrupt hierarchy in place.
> 
> They are using you as a crusher to preserve a $#@!ed up system and you are allowing it. 
> 
> The only antidote is total personal liberty and total personal responsibility which is the polar opposite of what *you* do every day when you "put on that badge" and enforce crony laws/preserve corruption.
> 
> You make a personal choice to endorse this system by your very involvement in restricting liberty by use of force. 
> 
> Truth.



I have said it once, I'll say it again, I don't make the laws. If I had my way about it, some of these laws would be gone in a matter of hours. We all have our little jobs to fulfill. You have yours, I have mine. I don't even know what yours is -- but, I guarantee that if I knew nothing about the type of work you do and I tried to tell you how to do it, it would piss you off to no end.

----------


## mrsat_98

Great Discussion or argument. On one side we have a gentlemen that is a member of a foreign military invading force that hasn't a clue. And on the other side we have the population who have no clue there is an emergency that justifies being treated like enemy. We are no better off than the poor people in Afganistan or Iraq we just don't realize what is going on in our face. 

The Blind ruling over the Blind.



[

----------


## Red Green

> You're reading way too far into that statement.


I've seen lots of stories of pigs covering for other pigs.  As for the "nothing worse than a dirty cop", I would say that's BS, unless of course you define "dirty" as someone who rats out another guy in blue.

Seems to me Dorner was run out for ratting on a dirty cop.  I remember that other chick cop who got fired because she tried to stop a couple of roid raging pigs from going all Rodney King on a kid.  

Frankly, when you say cops don't like dirty cops, you lose a lot of credibility with me.  We have lots of evidence to the contrary.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Once again, you make it sound so easy. I wish that everyone could be a cop for just one week.... you'd see where i'm coming from.


Most people aroun here would not ever CHOOSE to be a cop because they don't believe that morality comes from governmental enforcement but through example..

The example you promote is force instead of personal responsibility.

----------


## belian78

> Once again, you make it sound so easy. I wish that everyone could be a cop for just one week.... you'd see where i'm coming from.


There have been many times that I have had to find other work, or even pass up opportunities because I would have been asked to do something I refuse to.  You know what though?  My child has never went hungry, he has always had clothes on his back, and he has never had to have his father explain to him 'son, sometimes you have to put your principles aside'.  Nor will he ever hear those words come out of my mouth.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I've seen lots of stories of pigs covering for other pigs.  As for the "nothing worse than a dirty cop", I would say that's BS, unless of course you define "dirty" as someone who rats out another guy in blue.
> 
> Seems to me Dorner was run out for ratting on a dirty cop.  I remember that other chick cop who got fired because she tried to stop a couple of roid raging pigs from going all Rodney King on a kid.  
> 
> Frankly, when you say cops don't like dirty cops, you lose a lot of credibility with me.  We have lots of evidence to the contrary.



Show me any of that evidence from any police department in Virginia. NYPD and LAPD everyone knows is corrupt. I commend Dorner for doing what he did, well minus the murdering part, there were better ways to go about it. But, I def commend him for coming out against the LAPD. 

And no, when I say we despise dirty cops, I mean we straight up despise them. And I don't consider a cop that leaks department secrets dirty, especially if said department is corrupt.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I have said it once, I'll say it again, I don't make the laws. If I had my way about it, some of these laws would be gone in a matter of hours. We all have our little jobs to fulfill. You have yours, I have mine. I don't even know what yours is -- but, I guarantee that if I knew nothing about the type of work you do and I tried to tell you how to do it, it would piss you off to no end.


Why would you want to tell anyone how to live their own life as long as it does not impede your own 

*LIFE LIBERTY AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS?????
*

You really need to go back to the drawing board brother. (If indeed you are not fictional)

----------


## Fivezeroes

> There have been many times that I have had to find other work, or even pass up opportunities because I would have been asked to do something I refuse to.  You know what though?  My child has never went hungry, he has always had clothes on his back, and he has never had to have his father explain to him 'son, sometimes you have to put your principles aside'.  Nor will he ever hear those words come out of my mouth.


Were your parents or your wife's parents still around? Was your wife still alive? If not don't judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes. My son has me and only me to rely on.

----------


## belian78

> Were your parents or your wife's parents still around? Was your wife still alive? If not don't judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes. My son has me and only me to rely on.


Sorry but that is no excuse.  You are doing your son a disservice by teaching him that it is ok to put your principles aside for the sake of the all mighty dollar.  Can you not hunt for your food?  Can you not grow a garden for your vegatables/fruits?  Can you not turn a wrench?  Push a broom?  Work a paintbrush?  There are many other ways to provide for you and yours, you are just too weak to attempt them.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Why would you want to tell anyone how to live their own life as long as it does not impede your own 
> 
> *LIFE LIBERTY AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS?????
> *
> 
> You really need to go back to the drawing board brother. (If indeed you are not fictional)



I don't tell anyone how to live their life, I am just here to enforce the laws, that people you elected decided were needed. Again, we all have our roles in life to play, mine just so happens to be that of the boogie man.

----------


## belian78

I hope no one has sent this guy PM's, I can't help but think he's here trying to get people to send threatening messages.  Damn Troll...

----------


## The Northbreather

> I don't tell anyone how to live their life, I am just here to enforce the laws, that people you elected decided were needed. Again, we all have our roles in life to play, mine just so happens to be that of the boogie man.


Intersting that you believe that we are all assigned roles.

So you have no control of choosing what "roll" you fill?

Who assigns these rolls in your opinion, your government masters?

Are you not free to choose your roll or do you just enjoy this whole idea that you have no personal responsibility to change your path in life hence no personal responsibility to resist the enforcement of immoral/unconstitutional laws.

Just wondering.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Sorry but that is no excuse.  You are doing your son a disservice by teaching him that it is ok to put your principles aside for the sake of the all mighty dollar.  Can you not hunt for your food?  Can you not grow a garden for your vegatables/fruits?  Can you not turn a wrench?  Push a broom?  Work a paintbrush?  There are many other ways to provide for you and yours, you are just too weak to attempt them.




No, that is plenty excuse enough, you obviously had your wife, her parents and your parents in the picture helping with bills and $#@! like that. I faced foreclosure among other things, her parents were dead, mine were dead, and she died when he was 3. So don't tell me that's not reason enough for an excuse. When the police job came along, I wasn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth, especially when resume, after resume, after resume got kicked back, because some fresh out of college business admin had no experience. 

Like I said walk one mile in my shoes. And no, I couldn't hunt my food, nor grow it, there isn't a whole lot of hunting area where I'm from, and yea growing food would have been out of the picture cause you need a damned house so that you can have your garden. You think that I didn't try every job market? Again, like I said, had I followed the advice of the sages on this site, I would have lost my son, my house, my car, and then I'd be just some highly educated bum on the street begging for change.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I hope no one has sent this guy PM's, I can't help but think he's here trying to get people to send threatening messages.  Damn Troll...



Was wondering when the conspiracy theories were gonna start flying. Contrary to what you believe, I don't have or even intend to make dossier's on any of you.

----------


## The Northbreather

> *I hope no one has sent this guy PM's, I can't help but think he's here trying to get people to send threatening messages.  Damn Troll...*


THIS^^^^^^

----------


## The Northbreather

> No, that is plenty excuse enough, you obviously had your wife, her parents and your parents in the picture helping with bills and $#@! like that. I faced foreclosure among other things, her parents were dead, mine were dead, and she died when he was 3. So don't tell me that's not reason enough for an excuse. When the police job came along, I wasn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth, especially when resume, after resume, after resume got kicked back, because some fresh out of college business admin had no experience. 
> 
> Like I said walk one mile in my shoes. And no, I couldn't hunt my food, nor grow it, there isn't a whole lot of hunting area where I'm from, and yea growing food would have been out of the picture cause you need a damned house so that you can have your garden. You think that I didn't try every job market? Again, like I said, had I followed the advice of the sages on this site, I would have lost my son, my house, my car, and then I'd be just some highly educated bum on the street begging for change.


What about right now?

Ready to evolve yet?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Intersting that you believe that we are all assigned roles.
> 
> So you have no control of choosing what "roll" you fill?
> 
> Who assigns these rolls in your opinion, your government masters?
> 
> Are you not free to choose your roll or do you just enjoy this whole idea that you have no personal responsibility to change your path in life hence no personal responsibility to resist the enforcement of immoral/unconstitutional laws.
> 
> Just wondering.



I am free to change roles if I so choose. But why would I do that? The way I see it, is it's keeping my son clothed, food in his belly, a roof over his head. When he is grown and off to college in another 11 years, I can think about changing this role that I am currently in. But, for now, why bother unless I am absolutely forced to because lawmakers decided it was time to take guns.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> THIS^^^^^^




It's time for you and what's his name to have their daily dose of crazy pill.

----------


## belian78

If you are a real person and not an internet persona trying to get a reaction, then I truly am sorry for your situation.  However, I've walked that mile my man, believe me I have.  I have family around me but when I was down and out but I refused most of their help, I had to accept some groceries from time to time or risk disrespecting my elders.  Other than that, they would watch my boy from time to time, which I insisted I repaid with work around their house.  My mom and grandma even went to my bank and pleaded with them for my bank acct number so they could deposit money in there for me.  I worked 2 sometimes 3 $#@!ty jobs at the same time to make sure my obligations were met.  All the while, this was when I first found out Ron Paul would be running for president in 2007, I still worked on his behalf and dontated to his campaign.  

There is always something we can do, always.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I am free to change roles if I so choose. But why would I do that? The way I see it, is it's keeping my son clothed, food in his belly, a roof over his head. When he is grown and off to college in another 11 years, I can think about changing this role that I am currently in. But, for now, why bother unless I am absolutely forced to because lawmakers decided it was time to take guns.


Because you could choose literally *billions* of other paths that wouldn't even come close to infringing on other peoples liberty and most would actually be pro-liberty and yet as a "liberty lover" *YOU CHOOSE* to work for one of the few jobs that repress liberty.

Do you not see the failure in logic here.

You choose to.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> If you are a real person and not an internet persona trying to get a reaction, then I truly am sorry for your situation.  However, I've walked that mile my man, believe me I have.  I have family around me but when I was down and out but I refused most of their help, I had to accept some groceries from time to time or risk disrespecting my elders.  Other than that, they would watch my boy from time to time, which I insisted I repaid with work around their house.  My mom and grandma even went to my bank and pleaded with them for my bank acct number so they could deposit money in there for me.  I worked 2 sometimes 3 $#@!ty jobs at the same time to make sure my obligations were met.  All the while, this was when I first found out Ron Paul would be running for president in 2007, I still worked on his behalf and dontated to his campaign.  
> 
> There is always something we can do, always.



I have nothing to gain by pretending to be the most hated profession on the planet, especially on a forum full of liberty lovers. And when I say there was no one, I couldn't get people to watch my son while I worked, strike that I had one of the neighbors kids watch him, but, even she couldn't watch him while I worked 2 jobs. There were nights that I would go hungry but as long as he ate I was happy. 

I wish you were right about that, there is always something you can do... but, when you're a military town and business relies on the military, sometimes things don't go the way you want.

----------


## cheapseats

> ...because im a cop...



Without taxing my eyes with this thread or your post history, I am very interested to know how/why/where/when you made this announcement on this board.

I am put in mind of DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE, and Bruce Willis walking thru Harlem wearing an I HATE ******S sandwich board.

My internet experience sez PROVOCATEUR.  Still, I'll play.

[ASIDE TO AUDIENCE:  The programmed asterisk-ing out of the word ****** . . . but not Spic, Mick, Chink, Towel Head, Camel Jockey, Polock, $#@!, etc, etc . . . is glaring capitulation to SELECTIVE/DISCRIMINATORY peecee bull$#@!.]

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Because you could choose literally *billions* of other paths that wouldn't even come close to infringing on other peoples liberty and most would actually be pro-liberty and yet as a "liberty lover" *YOU CHOOSE* to work for one of the few jobs that repress liberty.
> 
> Do you not see the failure in logic here.
> 
> You choose to.


I have already said I choose too... right now I'm doing what I have to do as a parent. It's not like I don't fire off resumes to businesses looking for people with the degree I have, but as I said to belian... this town, hell the whole state relies on the military, so if there isn't any government work, most businesses aren't hiring.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Without taxing my eyes with this thread or your post history, I am very interested to know how/why/where/when you made this announcement on this board.
> 
> I am put in mind of DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE, and Bruce Willis walking thru Harlem wearing an I HATE ******S sandwich board.
> *
> My internet experience sez PROVOCATEUR.  Still, I'll play.*




Better watch it a certain mod just neg rept me for suggesting such a thing

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Without taxing my eyes with this thread or your post history, I am very interested to know how/why/where/when you made this announcement on this board.
> 
> I am put in mind of DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE, and Bruce Willis walking thru Harlem wearing an I HATE ******S sandwich board.
> 
> My internet experience sez PROVOCATEUR.  Still, I'll play.



Ummm, man I could really be a complete smartass right now... especially with you asking the how/why/where/when part. 

You really need to stop relying on internet experience, you wont be the first person to call me a troll, nor will you be the last.

----------


## cheapseats

> I have nothing to gain by pretending to be the most hated profession on the planet, especially on a forum full of liberty lovers...


What ELSE would you say, if you were a Provocateur?  If you were "simply" an earnest (one might say ZEALOUS) member of "the most hated profession on the planet", why would you not tread lightly?

If you are a Provocateur, the people for whom you operate have PLENTY to "gain" by you provoking Freedom Fighters into the kind of free speech that "Authorities" have already signaled to be ACTIONABLE.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I have already said I choose too... right now I'm doing what I have to do as a parent. It's not like I don't fire off resumes to businesses looking for people with the degree I have, but as I said to belian... this town, hell the whole state relies on the military, so if there isn't any government work, most businesses aren't hiring.


Why do you always assume that money comes from being employed by someone else?

 1) Educate yourself for free in a field that interests you that there is a desire for. There is always something that someone else wants or needs from another person.


 2) Do that.


 3) Pursue happiness.

----------


## The Northbreather

dub

----------


## cheapseats

> No, dirty cops go straight to jail.


Maaaaaybe, if they are convicted.  But there is the matter of them being CHARGED.

Police police their own, like Congress "police" their own, like the Catholic Church "polices" their own.

Human nature is human nature.  Birds of a feather, blah blah.  

The LAST people who should police themselves are LAWMAKERS and LAW ENFORCEMENT.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> What ELSE would you say, if you were a Provocateur?  If you were "simply" an earnest (one might say ZEALOUS) member of "the most hated profession on the planet", why would you not tread lightly?
> 
> If you are a Provocateur, the people for whom you operate have PLENTY to "gain" by you provoking Freedom Fighters into the kind of free speech that "Authorities" have already signaled to be ACTIONABLE.



Are all the people on this site conspiracy nuts? Yea, I work for someone who monitors a forum, with an Alexa ranking of over 12k because they're worried about you creating some kind of revolution. Christ, that made my head hurt.... I bet you think I'm up here data-mining and making dossiers on each and every one of you too... No offense but, it's really time for you to take your meds. Do you know the definition of freedom fighter? Hell you aren't fighting anything you're bitching about $#@! on the internet. 

FREEDOM FIGHTER

A person who takes part in a violent struggle to achieve a political goal.

----------


## The Free Hornet

> A cop abusing his powers writing tickets and lying on reports does not make him dirty, it makes him an idiot.


*Do you contact the citizens who are the subjects of these tickets or reports?  Is there a law against doing that?*

Do you testify in their defense?  Present documentation to their lawyers...?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> *Do you contact the citizens who are the subjects of these tickets or reports?  Is there a law against doing that?*


Again, I am not high enough rank to handle that. I'm not sure whether the SGT in charge handles that or not.

----------


## cheapseats

> FREEDOM FIGHTER
> 
> A person who takes part in a violent struggle to achieve a political goal.



Nice try.

Freedom Fighting isn't violent until it's violent.  Someone STARTS the violence.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Nice try.
> 
> Freedom Fighting isn't violent until it's violent.  Someone STARTS the violence.



And right now, there is no violence, it's more along the lines of just plain out bitching and moaning. When the all out fighting starts, I'm going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with the people. Along with most if not all of the cops I work with. 

But, again, I'm not here to provoke anyone into making any threatening comments, and if people do, I tell them to edit their post because I don't want to see them in trouble over that. As I said, I'm not data-mining, I don't have any ulterior motives, I am who I say I am.

----------


## cheapseats

> Are all the people on this site conspiracy nuts?


Not all, obviously.

PRESSING BUTTONS with a Feb 2013 join date . . . DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!





> Yea, I work for someone who monitors a forum, with an Alexa ranking of over 12k because they're worried about you creating some kind of revolution. Christ, that made my head hurt.... I bet you think I'm up here *data-mining and making dossiers* on each and every one of you too...


There's a lotta that goin' around.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

> Better watch it a certain mod just neg rept me for suggesting such a thing


I neg-repped you for acting exactly how you're acting now.  I also neg-repped more people on this thread, including I believe the OP.

For someone who said he cares not about the neg, you sure are bitching about it an awful lot, and don't have to harass me in PM.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Not all, obviously.
> 
> PRESSING BUTTONS with a Feb 2013 join date . . . DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lotta that goin' around.
> 
> ...



Everything is not one big conspiracy. You haven't even bothered to read my posts and yet, you're sitting here assuming I'm somehow an agent of the government. Try to provoke you into saying something stupid so that the FEDcoats can come in and shut you down. I wonder how many people said the same about your join date...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I neg-repped you for acting exactly how you're acting now.  I also neg-repped more people on this thread, including I believe the OP.
> 
> For someone who said he cares not about the neg, you sure are bitching about it an awful lot, and don't have to harass me in PM.




Yea, I am the victim of one of those negs. It's ok, I forgive you because you're a Mets fan.

----------


## cheapseats

> A cop abusing his powers writing tickets and lying on reports does not make him dirty...


Yes, it does.





> Dirty cops are those that allow themselves to be bribed and bought.


Shades of dirty, both filed under ABUSE OF POWER...also under CORRUPTION IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I neg-repped you for acting exactly how you're acting now.  I also neg-repped more people on this thread, including I believe the OP.
> 
> For someone who said he cares not about the neg, you sure are bitching about it an awful lot, and don't have to harass me in PM.


I kept anonymous who repped me. You outed yourself.

this is harassment in your view?




> Originally Posted by The Northbreather
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa
> 
> ...

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Yes, it does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shades of dirty, both filed under ABUSE OF POWER...also under CORRUPTION IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR.



As I said, it doesn't make him dirty, it makes him an idiot. People, even cops are prone to making boneheaded mistakes.

----------


## Natural Citizen

Heh. How dude...yawn.

The thing with political science...much like the real stuff...is that it's absolutely nothing if not prediction. Couple of hundred more pages of this stuff and maybe everyone will be on the same page. 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4905933

----------


## cheapseats

> Everything is not one big conspiracy.


No.  But the demonization of the term CONSPIRACY THEORY is a conspiracy.

I'm not talking about everything being "one big conspiracy."  I'm talking about YOU.





> You haven't even bothered to read my posts and yet, you're sitting here assuming I'm somehow an agent of the government. Try to provoke you into saying something stupid ...


Oh, I'm reading your posts.  You are "simply" so quick on the draw, that replying to NEW posts is interfering with scouring "old" posts. 





> I wonder how many people said the same about your join date...


I have MANY times been accused of being a "Troll" or worse, WITHOUT a Mod ever interceding on my behalf.  Which is why I feel at liberty to raise the PROVOCATEUR flag when I believe it has merit.

----------


## The Northbreather

Please respond to post #648

----------


## The Free Hornet

In context of,



> A cop abusing his powers writing tickets and lying on reports does not make him dirty, it makes him an idiot.





> Again, I am not high enough rank to handle that. I'm not sure whether the SGT in charge handles that or not.


So you see a cop lying or screwing up a police report or ticket.  This report/ticket concerns a fellow citizen that pays your salary and whom you ought to serve in their interest.  You don't tell the citizen?  You don't tell their lawyer?  You don't tell a judge?  You don't tell a newspaper?  *You don't even know who you would tell?*

Thank you for the education.  I know the system is $#@!ed, but you give us all incentive to stay out of it.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No.  But the demonization of the term CONSPIRACY THEORY is a conspiracy.
> 
> I'm not talking about everything being "one big conspiracy."  I'm talking about YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm reading your posts.  You are "simply" so quick on the draw, that replying to NEW posts is interfering with scouring "old" posts. 
> 
> ...




Your charge is without merit, just as the previous charges have been without merit.  If I wanted to provoke people, I'd be up here posing as an Obama loving, warmongering, liberty hating $#@!tard. Then your charges would have merit. But, again it is human nature for people to automatically assume the worst. I need to go wash my hands, after typing Obama in a sentence, they somehow feel dirty.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> In context of,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you see a cop lying or screwing up a police report or ticket.  This report/ticket concerns a fellow citizen that pays your salary and whom you ought to serve in their interest.  You don't tell the citizen?  You don't tell their lawyer?  You don't tell a judge?  You don't tell a newspaper?  *You don't even know who you would tell?*
> 
> Thank you for the education.  I know the system is $#@!ed, but you give us all incentive to stay out of it.



Well, considering we don't work with other cops a whole lot. It's sort of hard to see who is messing up what citation. If there is a $#@! up on a ticket, that ticket is getting thrown out and the cop is getting his ass chewed by a judge. So who is there to tell? It is in our best interest not to $#@! up on a ticket, defense attorneys have a field day with that. Case in point, I was still fresh out of the academy, I pulled over my first driver who was speeding in a school zone, instead of putting* § 46.2-873, * I didn't put anything, ticket got thrown out my ass got handed to me by a judge. Again, I had my training officer with me, he allowed me to make the $#@! up, so again, who was there to tell?

----------


## cheapseats

> Your charge is without merit, just as the previous charges have been without merit.  If I wanted to provoke people, I'd be up here posing as an Obama loving, warmongering, liberty hating $#@!tard. Then your charges would have merit. But, again it is human nature for people to automatically assume the worst. I need to go wash my hands, after typing Obama in a sentence, they somehow feel dirty.


Like I said...QUICK ON THE DRAW.

I changed "level the PROVOCATEUR charge" to "raise the PROVOCATEUR flag."

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Why do you always assume that money comes from being employed by someone else?
> 
>  1) Educate yourself for free in a field that interests you that there is a desire for. There is always something that someone else wants or needs from another person.
> 
> 
>  2) Do that.
> 
> 
>  3) Pursue happiness.



1. Most fields that interest me require degrees, degrees which you can't just print, no matter how much you know on the subject.

2. Would love too, except for the fact that it requires a degree and I don't have 4 more years to go back to school.

3. My happiness, is my little boy. So that goal is already achieved.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Like I said...QUICK ON THE DRAW.
> 
> I changed "level the PROVOCATEUR charge" to "raise the PROVOCATEUR flag."




You give me a headache....

----------


## cheapseats

> Originally Posted by Fivezeroes  
> A cop *abusing his powers writing tickets and lying on reports* does not make him dirty...





> Originally Posted by cheapseats  
> Yes, it does.






> As I said, it doesn't make him dirty, it makes him an idiot.


No, it makes them DIRTY . . . "idiots", in the sense of robbing a five-and-dime instead of a liquor store.




> People, even cops are prone to making boneheaded mistakes.


"Making mistakes" is ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT from "abusing powers writing tickets and lying on reports".

----------


## Red Green

> Yes, it does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shades of dirty, both filed under ABUSE OF POWER...also under CORRUPTION IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR.


I agree.  Just because the state might benefit directly rather than the pig, it still is stealing.  Zeros has an interesting set of ethics / morals.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> No, it makes them DIRTY . . . "idiots" only in the manner of robbing a five-and-dime instead of a liquor store.
> 
> 
> 
> "Making mistakes" is ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT from "abusing powers writing tickets and lying on reports".



Like you haven't ever lied on a job. Like I said, defense attorneys catch $#@! like this and then eat the cop for breakfast. Most cops are well aware of what happens if we fudge up on a ticket, or we don't recall exactly what we did when writing said report.

----------


## newbitech

> No, that is plenty excuse enough, you obviously had your wife, her parents and your parents in the picture helping with bills and $#@! like that. I faced foreclosure among other things, her parents were dead, mine were dead, and she died when he was 3. So don't tell me that's not reason enough for an excuse. When the police job came along, I wasn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth, especially when resume, after resume, after resume got kicked back, because some fresh out of college business admin had no experience. 
> 
> Like I said walk one mile in my shoes. And no, I couldn't hunt my food, nor grow it, there isn't a whole lot of hunting area where I'm from, and yea growing food would have been out of the picture cause you need a damned house so that you can have your garden. You think that I didn't try every job market? Again, like I said, had I followed the advice of the sages on this site, I would have lost my son, my house, my car, and *then I'd be just some highly educated bum on the street begging for change.*


so you decided to become a highly educated bum on the street stealing your change instead.  nice.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I agree.  Just because the state might benefit directly rather than the pig, it still is stealing.  Zeros has an interesting set of ethics / morals.



What you fail to realize is that the state doesn't benefit at all if a charge is dropped and a ticket is thrown out. That's what no one is getting.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> so you decided to become a highly educated bum on the street stealing your change instead.  nice.




Nope, I work for my change, just because the city steals it from you to pay me and then steals it back from me to pay someone else doesn't change the fact that I still work for it.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I neg-repped you for acting exactly how you're acting now.  I also neg-repped more people on this thread, including I believe the OP.
> 
> For someone who said he cares not about the neg, you sure are bitching about it an awful lot, and don't have to harass me in PM.


Oh, from your rep comment I thought it was because I mentioned provocateur behavior.

Just to be 100% clear.

We are or aren't allowed to speculate if a poster is motivated to provoke a angry response from RPF members?




> 03-19-2013 08:22 AM
> Nirvikalpa
> 
> Thread: Confessions of an active duty police officer
> 
> I highly doubt someone who has been responding to a 26-page thread is a provocateur...

----------


## Darguth

> What you fail to realize is that the state doesn't benefit at all if a charge is dropped and a ticket is thrown out. That's what no one is getting.


Because we all know so well that mistaken and/or corrupt charges never stick and/or citizens are never bullied or have the law obfuscated from them so that they simply comply rather than fighting the Blue Wall.

----------


## Red Green

> 1. Most fields that interest me require degrees, degrees which you can't just print, no matter how much you know on the subject.
> 
> 2. Would love too, except for the fact that it requires a degree and I don't have 4 more years to go back to school.
> *
> 3. My happiness, is my little boy. So that goal is already achieved.*




That's a good way to look at life.  Happiness should be about the people around us.

Now, picture a guy you bust with a bag of weed having a little boy who needs and looks up to him.  Picture that guy losing his job because he's in jail and can't make it to work the next day.  Now no one wants to hire him because he has a record.  Maybe he ends up doing time for simple possession and his child is now without support or his father to look up to.  

It's good you know as an individual what is important in your life.  It would be even better if you could look at others and see the same thing.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> What you fail to realize is that the state doesn't benefit at all if a charge is dropped and a ticket is thrown out. That's what no one is getting.


What you fail to realize is that your word is somehow better than my mine in a court of law and the charges are rarely dropped and tickets even more rarely are ever thrown out.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Oh, from your rep comment I thought it was because I mentioned provocateur behavior.
> 
> Just to be 100% clear.
> 
> We are or aren't allowed to speculate if a poster is motivated to provoke a angry response from RPF members?



Dude, seriously, it's a neg rep. Get over it. They mean nothing.... I've gotten 3 in the last hour. Most I find absolutely hilarious.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> What you fail to realize is that your word is somehow better than my mine in a court of law and the charges are rarely dropped and tickets even more rarely are ever thrown out.



As far as I know I've never had the displeasure of being on the opposite podium as you.... And yes, it's quite a displeasure having to go to court on your day off.

----------


## Red Green

> What you fail to realize is that the state doesn't benefit at all if a charge is dropped and a ticket is thrown out. That's what no one is getting.


Pigs lie and make up charges all the time and get away with it.  

You remember how I told you about AZ having a zero BAC limit?  There was a prominent DUI lawyer in the valley who went out with his buddy and his wife one night in Scottsdale.  The wife was the DD.  The get pulled over after leaving the bar (because the pigs are like sharks in a feeding frenzy around the bars down here) for some minor thing, I can't remember what exactly it was.  The pig says he smells alcohol and tells her to get out of the car.  She tells him she's the DD.  Pig arrests her for DUI anyway.  In the report he lists smell of alcohol, glassy eyes, slurring words, etc.  The county attorney ends up dropping the charges.  Why?  Bloodwork came back with a BAC of 0.00.  She was totally stone-cold sober.  If she had has one drink that night, the pig would have gotten away with his lies.  

Pigs get away with all sorts of $#@!, and yeah that makes them dirty, just like the pig in this instance.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Pigs lie and make up charges all the time and get away with it.  
> 
> You remember how I told you about AZ having a zero BAC limit?  There was a prominent DUI lawyer in the valley who went out with his buddy and his wife one night in Scottsdale.  The wife was the DD.  The get pulled over after leaving the bar (because the pigs are like sharks in a feeding frenzy around the bars down here) for some minor thing, I can't remember what exactly it was.  The pig says he smells alcohol and tells her to get out of the car.  She tells him she's the DD.  Pig arrests her for DUI anyway.  In the report he lists smell of alcohol, glassy eyes, slurring words, etc.  The county attorney ends up dropping the charges.  Why?  Bloodwork came back with a BAC of 0.00.  She was totally stone-cold sober.  If she had has one drink that night, the pig would have gotten away with his lies.  
> 
> Pigs get away with all sorts of $#@!, and yeah that makes them dirty, just like the pig in this instance.




Technically he did smell the booze, but it just wasn't from her. What he did was a $#@!ty move, and AZ needs to at least implement some kind of legal limit. That just proves my point, some charges get tossed out, especially if an injustice like that was done.

----------


## The Northbreather

> 1. Most fields that interest me require degrees, degrees which you can't just print, no matter how much you know on the subject.
> 
> 2. Would love too, except for the fact that it requires a degree and I don't have 4 more years to go back to school.
> 
> 3. My happiness, is my little boy. So that goal is already achieved.


What field requires a degree to even study it?

What does printing a pices of paper have to do with it?

Why do you assume that you need a piece of paper from a institution to validate your knowledge of a subject. 

Why do you have such a subordinate attitude towards life in general?

*Guess what? We're all flying through space on a giant rock at an undetermined speed. This is whats happening.

Why would one person on this rock have the right to tell another what to do unless they are harming someone else.

Engage in voluntary commerce of a subject that interests you, make money, keep what you earn, stay the $#@! out of other peoples business unless invited,  and $#@! what every else says.

*

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> As far as I know I've never had the displeasure of being on the opposite podium as you.... And yes, it's quite a displeasure having to go to court on your day off.


I believe you know what I meant. I agree to the second part. The difference is that I'd have to _take_ a day off and I wouldn't get paid overtime.

----------


## phill4paul

> As far as I know I've never had the displeasure of being on the opposite podium as you.... *And yes, it's quite a displeasure having to go to court on your day off.*


  You don't like getting paid O.T.?

----------


## Natural Citizen

I think that if there ever does come a time that the police force and the citizens would have to come to a common interest and band together that this thread alone serves as a prime example of why it could never happen. Especially with the younger generation involved with the cause of liberty. They're just too darn reactionary and short sighted. Just don't think it would work. Is unfortunate.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Dude, seriously, it's a neg rep. Get over it. They mean nothing.... I've gotten 3 in the last hour. Most I find absolutely hilarious.


Says the guy who believes in monopoly of force to the guy who believes that reputation in a free market is the opposite of corruption.

And I wasn't addressing you BTW..... Your interventionist/policeman qualities are showing

----------


## Fivezeroes

> What field requires a degree to even study it?
> 
> What does printing a pices of paper have to do with it?
> 
> Why do you asume that you need a piece of paper from a institution to validate your knowledge of a subject. 
> 
> Why do you have such a subordinate attitude towards life in general?
> 
> Guess what? We're all flying through space on a giant rock at an undetermined speed. This is whats happening.
> ...



Like I said, everything that interests me requires that little degree. Lets take for example, computers. People who bring a computer into your shop, want to see your certs before they trust you with something like that. That was just an example btw. Politics interest me too, but as someone who isn't made of money, I wouldn't stand a chance at making it far into the political food chain. It takes money to make money, that's the truth.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You don't like getting paid O.T.?



I don't mind OT, but court is boring as $#@!. Especially when you have to be there for a full day.

----------


## Red Green

> Technically he did smell the booze, but it just wasn't from her. What he did was a $#@!ty move, and AZ needs to at least implement some kind of legal limit. That just proves my point, some charges get tossed out, especially if an injustice like that was done.


What he did was make up a bunch of lies to put her under arrest.  The guy should be up on charges of perjury.  How many times have you heard of pigs getting charged with perjury?  Sorry, but that whole 10 Commandments thing you bring up contains that one about bearing false witness.  Dirty is as dirty does.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Says the guy who believes in monopoly of force to the guy who believes that reputation in a free market is the opposite of corruption.




Do you honestly care about your rep on an internet forum? Want me to give you a +rep? I'm sure I can find a post I agree with.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> What he did was make up a bunch of lies to put her under arrest.  The guy should be up on charges of perjury.  How many times have you heard of pigs getting charged with perjury?  Sorry, but that whole 10 Commandments thing you bring up contains that one about bearing false witness.  Dirty is as dirty does.




You wont hear me make one peep about this. I agree, cops who blatantly lie like this need to be brought up on perjury charges.

----------


## phill4paul

> I don't mind OT, but court is boring as $#@!. Especially when you have to be there for a full day.


  Welcome to life. And some of us have had the privilege of not being paid O.T. for it even after acquittal. In fact, have had to pay for it.

----------


## Darguth

> Like I said, everything that interests me requires that little degree. Lets take for example, computers. People who bring a computer into your shop, want to see your certs before they trust you with something like that. That was just an example btw. Politics interest me too, but as someone who isn't made of money, I wouldn't stand a chance at making it far into the political food chain. It takes money to make money, that's the truth.


You could absolutely work on computers (software, firmware, hardware) without a specialized degree. You also absolutely could get involved in politics without a specialized degree.

It requires hard work, that's it.

----------


## Red Green

Zeros, you have come up with all sorts of excuses for what you do.  Let me remedy those excuses:

"I live in a place where it's all military and government" - OK move to someplace that is all about industry and commerce.  If you love liberty, you'll be a lot happier having your kid not grow up with a bunch of military yeahoos.

"The stuff I would want to do requires a 4 year degree" - OK well there are lots of ways to make money without a degree.  Become a plumber for goodness sake.  It does not matter where you live, good plumbers are like godsends and about as rare.  

"I have a child to support" - lots of us do.  I have had 2 at one point.  And an ex-wife.  That's no excuse for taking the easy way out.

Really instead of making excuses, start making amends.  Do whatever you can to undo the damage you have done to liberty.  Not many here are going to buy into the excuses because most of us have seen hard times and most of use have never nor would we resort to becoming a cop.

----------


## cheapseats

> …I am just here to enforce the laws, that people you elected decided were needed.





> ...Until, the state reps do something about the drug laws there isn't anything I can do. I can't just say "Oh, hey, you have 30 plants growing in your house, okay, run along now" I have to report $#@! like that, no matter how stupid I find it...
> 
> There is one state law that I wouldn't enforce, that one having to do with married people can only have sex missionary style. That's just a ridiculous law. And if they ever passed a gun confiscation law here, I'd turn in my badge in a heartbeat...





> ...I don't make the laws . . . We all have our little jobs to fulfill. You have yours, I have mine...



You are "just here to enforce the laws", but then you DO distinguish between laws you will enforce and laws you will not enforce.

I draw attention to the LAW part of Martial Law.  Under Martial Law, would it be the unconstitutionality of gun confiscation that would permit you to DISOBEY ORDERS?  If so, does your enforcement of other laws imply your belief in their constitutional validity?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You could absolutely work on computers (software, firmware, hardware) without a specialized degree. You also absolutely could get involved in politics without a specialized degree.
> 
> It requires hard work, that's it.



Please read what I said, people coming into your shop love to see those little certificates hanging up showing you are certified. I didn't say you needed them to work on them. But, if people request them when they bring their comp in to be worked on, what do you tell them... oh uh, well, I don't have any.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Like I said, everything that interests me requires that little degree. Lets take for example, computers. People who bring a computer into your shop, want to see your certs before they trust you with something like that. That was just an example btw. Politics interest me too, but as someone who isn't made of money, I wouldn't stand a chance at making it far into the political food chain. It takes money to make money, that's the truth.


Dude. 

If you really think that degrees have changed the world instead of people pursuing their own ideas than you may be to thick to wrap your head around my last post. 

Maybe you should read it again.

You seem to have the same defeatist, subordinate, victim mentality that make many liberty lovers sick to their stomach.

Carve your own Goddamn nich in the world man, stomp on the goddamn terra. Stop blaming other outside forces that we all have to deal with. 

$#@!.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You are "just here to enforce the laws", but then you DO distinguish between laws you will enforce and laws you will not enforce.
> 
> I draw attention to the LAW part of Martial Law.  Under Martial Law, would it be the unconstitutionality of gun confiscation that would permit you to DISOBEY ORDERS?  If so, does your enforcement of other laws imply your belief in their constitutional validity?




I don't believe I'd have any kind of say so in that, if martial law ever came to pass. IIRC the military strips all LEO of their powers, so at that point, I'd be free to do whatever. Again, I don't know much about martial law.

----------


## Darguth

> Please read what I said, people coming into your shop love to see those little certificates hanging up showing you are certified. I didn't say you needed them to work on them. But, if people request them when they bring their comp in to be worked on, what do you tell them... oh uh, well, I don't have any.


You tell them your experience and why you're qualified with or without a degree or a cert.  If you do good work you'll find people are willing to pay for your services.

And, for the record, you do not in any way, shape, or form need a 4-year degree to get computer certifications.  All you need to do is invest in source books (many of which you can even find in public libraries), read them, and take the cert tests.  Anyone can get certified.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Dude. 
> 
> If you really think that degrees have changed the world instead of people pursuing their own ideas than you may be to thick to wrap your head around my last post. 
> 
> Maybe you should read it again.
> 
> You seem to have the same defeatist, subordinate, victim mentality that make many liberty lovers sick to their stomach.
> 
> Carve your own Goddamn nich in the world man, stomp on the goddamn terra. Stop blaming other outside forces that we all have to deal with. 
> ...



I wasted a rep on your other post... this is the one I should have repped, very inspirational.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> You tell them your experience and why you're qualified with or without a degree or a cert.  If you do good work you'll find people are willing to pay for your services.
> 
> And, for the record, you do not in any way, shape, or form need a 4-year degree to get computer certifications.  All you need to do is invest in source books (many of which you can even find in public libraries), read them, and take the cert tests.  Anyone can get certified.


Yea, I know most certs take about 3-6 months. And, I agree if you can convince people you do good work, you can get the business. But, you got a lot that are stubborn and believe that because you have the certs, it means you're somehow better than someone who didn't. It's plain stupidity.

----------


## The Northbreather

Reputation and ethic trump ALL pieces of paper.

Just like you as a cop can't force morality into someone with a baton, neither can you force intelligence or passion into someone with a degree or certificate.

You catching my drift here?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Reputation and ethic trump ALL pieces of paper.
> 
> Just like you as a cop can't force morality into someone with a baton, neither can you force intelligence or passion into someone with a degree or certificate.
> 
> You catching my drift here?



*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Northbreather again.
*
i tried.

----------


## cheapseats

> I don't believe I'd have any kind of say so in that, if martial law ever came to pass. IIRC the military strips all LEO of their powers, so at that point, I'd be free to do whatever.


I assure you, Law Enforcement Officers are not "free to do whatever" during Martial Law.





> Again, I don't know much about martial law.


Then you cannot really say with whom you would stand, can you?

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I assure you, Law Enforcement Officers are not "free to do whatever" during Martial Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you cannot really say with whom you would stand, can you?



As I asked, does the military strip all LEO of their duties while the state is on lock-down?  If I am stripped of my duty, then that makes me just a regular joe, which means it allows me to side with whoever I want and in the case of them coming for my guns, I'm going to side with the non-grabbers.

----------


## The Northbreather

> *You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Northbreather again.
> *
> i tried.



LIBERTY! Now quit that job.

----------


## cheapseats

> Any more questions ask away, except for my badge number of course and which police department I work for. I would prefer to remain anonymous as well, just in case the higher ups don't appreciate me doing this.


I am definitely calling DANGER, WILL ROBINSON on a self-announced cop who proclaims that there are some stupid/unjust laws he will NOT enforce and some stupid/unjust laws that he WILL enforce, but that he will "stand shoulder to shoulder with the people" in the event of gun confiscation.  A cop would KNOW that about him/herself but s/he would NOT broadcast it online, I feel certain.

That would get NOTICED in the Surveillance State, and the bogeymen ABOVE the bogeymen have as many ways to identify/locate YOU as they do to identify/locate US.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I am definitely calling DANGER, WILL ROBINSON on a self-announced cop who proclaims that there are some laws he will NOT enforce and that he will "stand shoulder to shoulder with the people" in the event of gun confiscation.
> 
> That would get NOTICED in the Surveillance State, and they have as many ways to i.d. YOU as they do it i.d. US.



I know just the guy who can get you a refill on those crazy pills my man.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> LIBERTY! Now quit that job.



Can't do that just yet... one day maybe, but can't right now.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I am definitely calling DANGER, WILL ROBINSON on a self-announced cop who proclaims that there are some laws he will NOT enforce and that he will "stand shoulder to shoulder with the people" in the event of gun confiscation.  A cop would KNOW that but not broadcast that online, I feel certain.
> 
> That would get NOTICED in the Surveillance State, and the bogeymen ABOVE the bogeymen have as many ways to identify/locate YOU as they do to identify/locate US.


This is true.

+rep

If you are real better watch it 00000.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> This is true.
> 
> +rep
> 
> If you are real better watch it 00000.



If they're watching me, so be it. I'm not gonna allow them to take my gun or anyone's gun for that matter.

----------


## The Northbreather

> Can't do that just yet... one day maybe, but can't right now.


And remain the low man on the statist totem pole for 11 years. Your soul will be complete corrupted by the dark side, it is has already begun.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> And remain the low man on the statist totem pole for 11 years. Your soul will be complete corrupted by the dark side, it is has already begun.




I can't be corrupted, people say most cops cross the line into no mans land around their 3rd year, so far, so good.

----------


## cheapseats

> If they're watching me, so be it. I'm not gonna allow them to take my gun or anyone's gun for that matter.


They'd only take your "service" weapon, when they fired you.

----------


## The Northbreather

> *I can't be corrupted*, people say most cops cross the line into no mans land around their 3rd year, so far, so good.


proved my point, it has begun

----------


## Fivezeroes

> They'd only take your "service" weapon, when they fired you.



They can't take something that doesn't belong to them. My weapon isn't provided by the department. I bought my weapon myself.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> proved my point, it has begun




I should change that to, I refuse to allow myself to be corrupted.

----------


## cheapseats

> I can't be corrupted...


Oh, brother.





> ...so far, so good.


Agree to disagree.

----------


## cheapseats

> They can't take something that doesn't belong to them. *My weapon isn't provided by the department. I bought my weapon myself.*


Is that common?

Regardless, your flippancy about getting fired contradicts previous rationalization about being the degree-challenged sole provider for your son.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Is that common?
> 
> Even so, your flippancy about getting fired contradicts previous rationalization about being the degree-less sole provider for your son.



The way I see it is if I get fired because I say I'll stand with other gun owners in the face of someone trying to take my guns from me, then so be it. I'm sure the union would protect me on exercising my rights, but again, if they didn't so be it. How does the saying go? I'd rather die free on my feet, than live on my knees as a slave? The 2nd is something I am very passionate about.

And yea, we're allowed to purchase our own firearm if we don't want to use the service weapon.

----------


## The Northbreather

> I should change that to, I refuse to allow myself to be corrupted.


I understand that its hard to fight back that ego when your carrying around all that firepower and a license to kill from the state but............ 

you only get one soul and you've just lost the first battle in the war by singing up for the wrong side for financial reasons.

If you know there is another way, any otherway, then why would you betray yourself and remain a cop?

Gross.

----------


## newbitech

> Nope, I work for my change, just because the city steals it from you to pay me and then steals it back from me to pay someone else doesn't change the fact that I still work for it.


Oh don't get me wrong, stealing takes effort.

----------


## newbitech

> Like I said, everything that interests me requires that little degree. Lets take for example, computers. People who bring a computer into your shop, want to see your certs before they trust you with something like that. That was just an example btw. Politics interest me too, but as someone who isn't made of money, I wouldn't stand a chance at making it far into the political food chain. It takes money to make money, that's the truth.


lol

----------


## newbitech

> As I asked, does the military strip all LEO of their duties while the state is on lock-down?  If I am stripped of my duty, then that makes me just a regular joe, which means it allows me to side with whoever I want and in the case of them coming for my guns, I'm going to side with the non-grabbers.


seriously?  you mean someone is going to tell you who you can and cannot side with during the $#@!ing apocalypse?  Is this even a question with you?  Really?

----------


## newbitech

> *They can't take something that doesn't belong to them*. My weapon isn't provided by the department. I bought my weapon myself.


lol

----------


## newbitech

The OP doesn't believe in himself.  The OP will gladly trade in Liberty, YOUR liberty, for a little bit of security, HIS security.

The OP will not THRIVE.

His moment is fleeting.

----------


## newbitech



----------


## newbitech

A DEA Agent stopped at a ranch in Texas and talked to an old rancher. He told the rancher, "I need to inspect your ranch for illegally grown drugs." The rancher said, "okay, but don't go into that field over there...", as he pointed out the location. The DEA Agent verbally exploded and said, "look mister, I have the authority of the federal government with me!" Reaching into his rear back pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and proudly displayed it to the rancher. "See this $#@!ing badge?! This badge means I can go wherever I want... On any land! No questions asked, no answers given! Do you understand old man?!"

The rancher kindly nodded, apologized, and went about his chores. Moments later the rancher heard loud screams, he looked up and saw the DEA agent running for his life, being chased by the ranchers big Santa Gertrudis Bull...... With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it was likely that he'd sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified. The old rancher threw down his tools, ran as fast as he could to the fence, and yelled at the top of his lungs......

"YOUR BADGE! SHOW HIM YOUR $#@!ING BADGE!

ahhhh!

----------


## newbitech



----------


## presence

*Fivezeros, what do you know about the funktionshäftling?    If you could turn back time and were given the opportunity, would you take a job?




*

----------


## The Northbreather

He hasn't been around for a minute.

Maybe we helped him change his distorted worldview?.........


Nahh.

----------


## The Northbreather

He hasn't been around for a minute.

Maybe we helped him change his distorted worldview?.........


Nahh.

----------


## phill4paul

> He hasn't been around for a minute.
> 
> Maybe we helped him change his distorted worldview?.........
> 
> 
> Nahh.


  He said he was getting tired in another thread.

----------


## TC95

> I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.





> I guess what I'm trying to express in this post is that not all cops are bad, yes, there are the few that don't give two $#@!s about your rights. But, they are few and far between.


First, you said that most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.  Then, you said the ones that don't care about our rights are few and far between.  Those sound like two contradictory statements.  So, which is it? Do most cops care about our rights or admit that we even have rights or not?

----------


## coastie

> First, you said that most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.  Then, you said the ones that don't care about our rights are few and far between.  *Those sound like two contradictory statements*.  So, which is it? Do most cops care about our rights or admit that we even have rights or not?



Yeah, he's pretty good at making those, that's for sure. I find it quite entertaining. 74 pages can't be wrong.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> A DEA Agent stopped at a ranch in Texas and talked to an old rancher. He told the rancher, "I need to inspect your ranch for illegally grown drugs." The rancher said, "okay, but don't go into that field over there...", as he pointed out the location. The DEA Agent verbally exploded and said, "look mister, I have the authority of the federal government with me!" Reaching into his rear back pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and proudly displayed it to the rancher. "See this $#@!ing badge?! This badge means I can go wherever I want... On any land! No questions asked, no answers given! Do you understand old man?!"
> 
> The rancher kindly nodded, apologized, and went about his chores. Moments later the rancher heard loud screams, he looked up and saw the DEA agent running for his life, being chased by the ranchers big Santa Gertrudis Bull...... With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it was likely that he'd sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified. The old rancher threw down his tools, ran as fast as he could to the fence, and yelled at the top of his lungs......
> 
> "YOUR BADGE! SHOW HIM YOUR $#@!ING BADGE!
> 
> ahhhh!


LOL!!!  Classic!

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## coastie

> I understand that its hard to fight back that ego when your carrying around all that firepower and a license to kill from the state but............ 
> 
> you only get one soul and you've just lost the first battle in the war by singing up for the wrong side for financial reasons.
> 
> If you know there is another way, any otherway, then why would you betray yourself and remain a cop?
> 
> Gross.


This guy is a "I was just enforcing the law(following orders)" type of guy. 


He's gotta eat man, give him a break.

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## mrsat_98

> I don't believe I'd have any kind of say so in that, if martial law ever came to pass. IIRC the military strips all LEO of their powers, so at that point, I'd be free to do whatever. Again, I don't know much about martial law.



Just when the citizens thought it was safe to go into the water again, The Amendatory Act of March 9, 1933 was passed, and which included the people of the United States under the definition of enemy.  Essentially, any person within the United States of any place subject to the jurisdiction thereof...  

Just saying "the Blind ruling over the blind."

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## The Northbreather

Do you guys think trolling pays better than police work in some cases?

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## osan

> I have been an officer for going on four years now, you probably ask why I joined the force to begin with. The simple answer is like most police officers, I wanted to make a difference in my community. I know that sentence right there got quite a few scoffs. But, that's the truth. I joined because I was tired of seeing all the drug dealers, pedophiles, and plain old common criminals destroy the city that I grew up in. So four years ago, I joined the force.


The problem with police is not necessarily the people.  I would say that a significant proportion of cops are decent enough persons, though a disturbingly large proportion are not and an even scarier percentage are outright criminal psychopaths.  But for now let us forget about those latter examples and examine why even the decent men and women who are cops are, for all practical purposes, dangerous at best and downright evil in less ideal cases.

Had Saint Francis himself become a cop he would have qualified as a dangerous and possibly evil human being.  Why, you wonder to yourself in failing comprehension as your head spins about the axis of your neck like a lathe?  It is not because he is evil, for he is generally regarded as having been, well, a saint.  It is because of the role he is required to play, which is integral to the job itself.  Many very fine and upstanding men became SS and gestapo officers.  Being of superior personal and moral character was, in fact, a sternly enforced requirement for acceptance to the ranks.  In addition, any lapse in one's standard of behavior would find him out on his ear, disgraced before his colleagues and the nation.  What made those men monsters was the role to which they had pledged their obedience.  Those men of high moral character _believed_ in what it was they were doing - that it was OK to stand guard over the inmates in the camps and the slave laborers in the factories.  Most of them did what they did with all good intentions for the future, the prosperity, the glory, and even what they perceived as the _freedom_ of the great Reich.  There was no evil intent there.  There was, however, a very flawed standard of judgment of right and wrong; of what was proper and what was not; of what was _necessary._

It has been this way throughout our recorded history and thus it remains to this day with police in America.  Your sentence above, referencing "drug dealers" with the implication that they are criminals, is a prime example of the brand of ignorance that leads not only police, but hordes of other people to accept the wholly and dangerously false premise that dealing drugs is a crime when in fact it is nothing of the sort.

Worse still is the fact that you are required to affect the arrest of such people regardless of whether you believe that drug dealing is a crime.  It is the profile of the job itself that renders you wholly dangerous to the rest of us.  It matters not how nice a guy you may be.  I cannot in all good conscience hold what you do in any respect, nor will rational sense allow me to associate myself with your kind because your main reason for existing is most definitely _not_ to protect us, but rather to _build cases against us._  Police are notorious for this - making PLAUSIBLE yet false cases against good people.  Why?  Because that is what they are there for and they can get away with it.  This happens thousands of times per day, every calendar day of every year and the practice is itself the apex of criminality.

There are endless examples of prosecutors bringing charges against innocent people simply because they are able to cobble up legally cogent cases that otherwise have no merit in truth.  A man forgets his gun in a bag and it is discovered by airport security.  What happens?  Charges are the universally automatic result, as is immediate arrest.  The arresting officers may well know the man made a simple error in memory or judgment, yet they arrest anyway because if they do not, it is their asses on the line.  They commit an act of _true evil_ against a good man because they are required to by someone or some thing that holds no justifiable claim to do so.  Prosecutors often automatically press charges not because the man committed a crime, which he didn't, but because they are able to get a conviction based on legal formality.  It has nothing to do with public safety, justice, truth, or right and wrong.  It has everything to do with being able to make a charge stick in court and for such people charges are almost always made because that is what prosecutors are there for.

The criminality of this system cannot be overstated.  It is perhaps the most profound evil in the world precisely because it shrouds itself in a mantle of false justice and of public service.  It is disgusting and it turns otherwise presumably good people into agents of devils.  For the average man, cops are the most dangerous people they will ever encounter.  Police may not intend to be evil, they may not be aware that they do evil things every day they are on duty, but that changes not the fact that they are and do perforce.

Arresting someone for smoking a joint on a street corner is an act of unvarnished evil.  So is arresting a man soliciting the services of a prostitute. The list of crimes _mala prohibita_, which are no crimes at all, is very long and people have had their lives destroyed because police criminally uphold and enforce these false and evil prohibitions and mandates.  The only real crimes are those _mala in se_.  Murder, rape, battery, theft, robbery, fraud, destruction of property, and so forth.  Why?  Because they involve the trespass upon and violation of someone's rights.  Injecting myself with heroin violates NOBODY'S rights.  If I go down town to dip the wick with a hooker, nobody is violated.  If my friend calls me up to help him and I arrive and blow up his old barn with dynamite, nobody's rights were violated.  If I put a gun on my hip and go about my business, no crime has been committed. Without a violation of rights a crime simply cannot have occured, even if someone is injured or killed.  If my buddy and I sit in his basement and play Russian roulette and he blows his brains out, no crime has occurred, just as if I decide to go snowboarding and I run off a cliff and kill myself.  Were this not the case, snowboarding and all other potentially dangerous activities including walking to the corner bodega for a quart of over-priced milk would all be prohibited by law.

The occupation you have chosen for yourself is, in fact, one that is evil in its very fabric precisely because dangerously ignorant or corrupt men have enacted statutes that declare non-crimes as crimes and you as an enforcer are obliged to enforce institutionalized evil.  You hold no authority to do so, yet you do it anyway.  Why?  Because there is nobody to stop you and you are likely ignorant of the truth about your actions and beliefs along these lines.  Because of all this, the fact that you may be the nicest guy in the world helps you in not even the least measure regarding the legitimacy of what you do, nor does it save you from accountability.




> In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights.


And here is the proof of the problem.  You most certainly have, yet you are not cognizant of the fact.  This is one of the fundamental problems - you actually think that you are acting within the limits of respect for the rights of others when in fact you do nothing of the sort.  This does no make you evil by intention; it does, however, mean that you commit evil acts regardless of how innocently, and that makes you a supremely dangerous person to all good people.




> Most cops can't say that


Not a one can, including you.  Violation of the rights of your fellows is built into the fabric of what you do every day to pay your bills.  This truth cannot be escaped no matter how diligently or cleverly you may try.




> most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights


Those are knowingly and intentionally evil.  Worse in principal, but in practice the same as the rest, more or less.




> Every officer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one on these boards, that see the police brutality videos are both saddened and sickened by our *fellow officers* behaviors.


The fact that you consider them your fellows is very telling and it reinforces my argument with some notable vigor.  Were I a cop, I would never consider such vermin as my fellows.  I would regard them as pariahs and were I to catch them in the act, I would at the very least stop them and affect their arrest.  In more extreme cases, I would shoot their manky asses stone dead where they stood.  THAT is how I regard such sub-human filth.




> I know that when you guys see it, you automatically think that all cops are like that,


You know nothing of the kind, you simply assume it.  You're probably a nice and decent person.  That I respect.  What I cannot respect is that if I whip out a joint and fire it up, you will arrest me and I will likely go to prison for years, be a convicted felon, and my life will have effectively turned into cold, runny $#@!.  Were the better among you good cops, they would openly refuse to enforce all crimes mala prohibita precisely because they are not crimes at all.




> that all of us just want to rule the world and beat you down for the littlest of reasons, but again that's far from the truth. Most of us just want to do our jobs, nothing less.


No, we do not.  We do know, however, that if we present you with material for building a case against us, you almost certainly will.  That is where the danger lay.  Cops simply fail to mind their own business when they ought to and where the opportunity to do otherwise arises.




> So while I understand why you guys have a certain distrust of us, I ask that you don't lump us all into that group.


As human beings the intelligent among us do not do this.  As enforcers of criminal statute required to so enforce, we rightly and rationally do.  To do otherwise is as wildly insane as anything you might care to list.

I am sure you believe in the good that you feel you do, but I would suggest you sit alone in a quiet and softly lit room when you have hours to devote to careful reflection on what it is you REALLY do for a living.  Have a glass of really good whisky, or even just a beer.  Fire up a good cigar... or a joint (BTW, I do NO drugs... I don't even take aspirin for a headache), and have a good long and deep think.  Challenge EVERY assumption about what it is you do.  The more obviously true an assumption, the more you need to break it apart against the rocky shores of hard, cold reason.

I have given you everything you need to get started.  The only question remaining is whether you hold any interest in discovering possibly very uncomfortable truths.

Best of luck to you if perchance you decide to take a trip down the rabbit hole.

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## QuickZ06

> Do you guys think trolling pays better than police work in some cases?


Probably, but sad and pathetic that they have to resort to these tactics, on Americans of all people. Says something don't it?

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## The Northbreather

> Probably, but sad and pathetic that they have to resort to these tactics, on Americans of all people. Says something don't it?

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## TC95

> ...your main reason for existing is most definitely _not_ to protect us, but rather to _build cases against us._  Police are notorious for this - making PLAUSIBLE yet false cases against good people.


That's the truth!

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## Fivezeroes

> First, you said that most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.  Then, you said the ones that don't care about our rights are few and far between.  Those sound like two contradictory statements.  So, which is it? Do most cops care about our rights or admit that we even have rights or not?



Just because they smirk at it, doesn't mean that they're bad cops. I smirk at a lot of $#@! I find stupid, but does that mean because I find it stupid that most people do? No. Stop trying to take my words out of context.


@Coastie really dude? You're one to talk about following orders when you had some USCG officer all up your ass while you were in the military. Yes, I do follow orders and don't give two $#@!s whether you like it or not. You can call me a Tyrant, say that I'm wronging you, etc. But as long as the laws are on the books, I'm going to do the job that I took an oath to do. 

I wonder how many boats you illegally boarded because your superiors thought something may have been on it. So don't start with your $#@!ing hypocrisy.

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## Wooden Indian

> Yes, I do follow orders and don't give two $#@!s whether you like it or not. You can call me a Tyrant, say that I'm wronging you, etc. But as long as the laws are on the books, I'm going to do the job that I took an oath to do.

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## Fivezeroes

> 


I honestly dislike people who try to compare what we do today with the atrocities that the Nazi's pulled. I don't know of any cop that has led 6 million Jews to their deaths. Trying to compare the orders I'm following to the orders they followed is as classless as you can get.

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## Wooden Indian

Didn't say you were baking Jews in your spare time. I doubt anyone would suggest that.
Just illustrating the dangers behind "I was only doing my job". Sorry that would cause you to "really dislike me".
Guess I can throw out this Best Freinds Forever charm bracelet I just bought for us.

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## Fivezeroes

> Didn't say you were baking Jews in your spare time. I doubt anyone would suggest that.
> Just illustrating the dangers behind "I was only doing my job". Sorry that would cause you to "really dislike me".
> Guess I can throw out this Best Freinds Forever charm bracelet I just bought for us.


You could have illustrated it a different way, being compared to a Nazi is classless. There's a huge difference between following laws that are on the books and following some lunatics hate speech that a certain religious ethnicity are the cause of all your problems.

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## The Northbreather

Just one person at a time who believes he should have power over another who hasn't harmed him is all it really takes. The reason is not the point. 

The endorsement of the state, Nazi or not, just makes it easier for the thugs to rationalize their behavior.

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## cheapseats

> Originally Posted by AgentforPathfinder  
> 
> ...*obese NRA guys* who wouldn't last a day in army basic training...
> 
> Being a young cop, I assume you are a cleancut guy, who *works out a lot*...
> 
> I wish that more men (and women) were capable of being on the *same level as cops training wise*...
> 
> *I wish that all regular people were capable (training-wise)* of doing as a civic responsibility what a policeman does as a job. I think as a society, *we've got a huge surplus of fatasses*...


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## Natural Citizen

Has anyone ever wondered why you drive on a parkway and park on a driveway? Scwewy...

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## The Northbreather

> I honestly dislike people who try to compare what we do today with the atrocities that the Nazi's pulled. I don't know of *any cop* that has led 6 million Jews to their deaths. Trying to compare the orders I'm following to the orders they followed is as classless as you can get.


Its a group effort. You'll get there eventually on the current course. I wonder how many have been immorally imprisoned or killed by the police/state to date? gotta be up there.

Hundreds of thousands?

Millions?

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## Barrex

> You could have illustrated it a different way, being compared to a Nazi is classless. There's a huge difference between following laws that are on the books and following some lunatics hate speech that a certain religious ethnicity are the cause of all your problems.


Actually Nazis, SS troops, Gestapo, soldiers, people etc. werent following speeches. All of that was codified in laws and they were enforcing those laws. Just to clarify.

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## Wooden Indian

> You could have illustrated it a different way, being compared to a Nazi is classless. There's a huge difference between following laws that are on the books and following some lunatics hate speech that a certain religious ethnicity are the cause of all your problems.


My response was going to be pretty much what Barrex posted above. Well said, bud. 

The "I'm only doing my job/enforcing the laws" line is a recipe for disaster as seen in our recent past. Police using it now to defend their actions is not just silly, but downright dangerous. Again, not saying your BBQing Jews on The Annual 4th of July picnic, just giving you some context.

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## rubioneocon

> . . .  In all the time I have been on the force, I have NEVER once stepped on someone's constitutional rights. Most cops can't say that, most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights. 
> . . .


Most cops_ can't_ say that . . . 

most LEOs (law enforcement officers) proceed not even _knowing_ that they have 
trampled constitutional rights imho

malicious prosecution follows the extra zeal and rewards that come with the stepping/trampling of rights

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## TC95

> First, you said that most cops smirk when you even mention the thought of regular citizens having rights.  Then, you said the ones that don't care about our rights are few and far between.  Those sound like two contradictory statements.  So, which is it? Do most cops care about our rights or admit that we even have rights or not?





> Just because they smirk at it, doesn't mean that they're bad cops. I smirk at a lot of $#@! I find stupid, but does that mean because I find it stupid that most people do? No. Stop trying to take my words out of context.


Are you serious??? Any cop who smirks at citizens having rights because they think it's so stupid is definitely a bad cop.  I didn't take your words out of context.  You clearly said two contradictory statements.  It doesn't make any sense to say that the ones who don't care about our rights are "few and far between" if *most* (<---your word) of them are smirking at the thought that we have rights.

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## Red Green

> I honestly dislike people who try to compare what we do today with the atrocities that the Nazi's pulled. I don't know of any cop that has led 6 million Jews to their deaths. Trying to compare the orders I'm following to the orders they followed is as classless as you can get.


So it's ok to throw someone in a cage for 20 years for having some dope, someplace they're likely to get beaten and raped, but it's totally different to throw them in a cage for being Jewish and gas them to death?  Am I missing something here?  Seems to me the two are very comparable.

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## mrsat_98

> So it's ok to throw someone in a cage for 20 years for having some dope, someplace they're likely to get beaten and raped, but it's totally different to throw them in a cage for being Jewish and gas them to death?  Am I missing something here?  Seems to me the two are very comparable.


They are both considered to be animals. There was a German word for less than men. Here it is "Man or other animals". I was a little surprised when 50 didn't like being referred to as a NAZI but was acting like one or early own made claims to  his integrity but in realty has admitted to violations of 18 USC 201 throughout this rant as if it Standard Operating Procedure.

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## mrsat_98

Did we punk fivezeros out or what ?

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## Origanalist

He didn't need much help.

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## tod evans



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## kylejack

There will come a day for most cops when they're asked to protect the Thin Blue Line, either by lying for another cop or by ignoring criminal activity from a fellow police officer. Officers that refuse to do so routinely get drummed out of the force. That's why I don't consider most cops to be good cops: because good cops are pushed out.

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