# News & Current Events > World News & Affairs >  Magazine office in Paris hit.  11 dead, 5 seriously wounded.

## tangent4ronpaul

2 gunmen got away via carjacking.  vehicle found abandoned.  apparently over printing something critical of Islam.

2 3 of the dead are cops.

20-30 ambulances on site...

at least two police cars shot up.

France now on highest terrorist alert.

satirical magazine was previously firebombed after publishing cartoon critical of prophet Mohamed. 

magazine is Charlie Hebdo

attackers brought AK's and a rocket launcher.  were heard to shout "god is great"

seriously wounded count downgraded to 4.  not clear if a mis-count or if one died.

update 12 killed.

at least 10 wounded.

update: now claiming waiting getaway car, switch to stolen car.  video I saw but haven't found online didn[t look like that.  loked like they tried to hijack one and went for a second instead.

among dead are the editor and 4 cartoonists.

3 attackers


-t

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## UWDude

WW III began a while ago.  Funny thing is, many don't even know who is guiding them to dance their way into purgatory.

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## alucard13mm

But wait.. I thought France was anti-gun O_O... where did the these criminal mass murderers get their guns from?

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## mrsat_98

> But wait.. I thought France was anti-gun O_O... where did the these criminal mass murderers get their guns from?


They where handed out before the drill.

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## tangent4ronpaul



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## tangent4ronpaul

The French cops are not being that smart.  Islamic tactics often involve a secondary attack, usually a car bomb, set off after responders arrive.  It's been a densely packed cop convention ever since it happened - right outside.

-t

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## vita3

Another Wake up call for insane French leaders who fully supported the arming of crazy Islamists to overthrow Syrian Gov.

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## UWDude

> Another Wake up call for insane French leaders who fully supported the arming of crazy Islamists to overthrow Syrian Gov.


Or convenient excuse to try to recolonize Syria.

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## vita3

Frenchies should demand
their Gov ceases all aid & comfort
to nut-ball Islamists wanna-be's
in regards to Syria.

Stop the CRIMINALITY

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## tangent4ronpaul

OP updated

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## roho76

> The French cops are not being that smart.  Islamic tactics often involve a secondary attack, usually a car bomb, set off after responders arrive.  It's been a densely packed cop convention ever since it happened - right outside.
> 
> -t


I fail to see the problem.

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## NACBA

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/susa...oZKqG8.twitter

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## Working Poor

I keep wondering when the terrorist are going to get some real balls and go after the real elite?

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## Acala

> But wait.. I thought France was anti-gun O_O... where did the these criminal mass murderers get their guns from?


I don't keep up on French law, but for a long time France was one of the better European countries for private gun ownership.  Including handguns, which were often equipped with suppressors for courteous practice in urban areas.  No idea what it is like now . . .

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## Acala

> I keep wondering when the terrorist are going to get some real balls and go after the real elite?


For fun, let's imagine that you are a government that wants to stir up anti-muslim hatred/fear in Europe but you don't want to attack the "real elite" because you are part of the real elite.  What would you do?  This wouldn't be a bad ploy.  And, of course, the false flag event is SOP for the whole western world now.  And note, this was not a suicide attack.  The perps were very careful in planning their escape.  Just sayin' . . .

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## Suzanimal

> The French cops are not being that smart.  Islamic tactics often involve a secondary attack, usually a car bomb, set off after responders arrive.  It's been a densely packed cop convention ever since it happened - right outside.
> 
> -t


BREAKING: CAR BOMB REPORTED AT PARIS SYNAGOGUE
Reported explosion occurred after Charlie Hebdo attack






> The car reportedly exploded at about 2.30 p.m. local time (1.30 p.m. GMT), according to MetroNews.
> 
> The provided photo, however, appears to show a car on fire, not one that exploded. Explosions usually scatter debris and this is not shown in the above photo.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/breaking-car...ris-synagogue/

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## ZENemy

> I keep wondering when the terrorist are going to get some real balls and go after the real elite?


They are one in the same.

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## Suzanimal

Senior Bank of France Figure Bernard Maris Killed in Paris Attack




> A member of the Bank of France's General Council was among the dozen people killed in Wednesday's gun attack targeting the Charlie Hebdo satirical newspaper, the bank confirmed. Economist and writer Bernard Maris was also a contributor to Charlie Hedbo.
> 
> "This is a barbaric attack on the freedom of the press," Bank of France governor Christian Noyer said in a statement. "Bernard Maris was a cultured, kind and very tolerant man. He will be much missed." Maris was also a contributor to France's state-run Radio France.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/par...attack-n281441

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## luctor-et-emergo

Crap, I thought that writing articles was a relatively safe job..

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## jonhowe

I've always enjoyed Hebdo. Their editor/cartoonist Charbonnier was a badass. And now he's dead. He said during the last incident over Mohammad cartoon that "I'd prefer to die standing than live on my knees".

I'm extremely sad to hear he got his way. He took a stand for free speech and expression and was attacked by global media and persecuted by his own government. But he stood his ground and beat the court case France brought against him. I wonder what he thought about when he realized what was happening and that he was about to die for his beliefs (or, lack thereof).

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## puppetmaster

Multiculturalism at its finest.  France is a leader of this BS.

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## Pauls' Revere

> I keep wondering when the terrorist are going to get some real balls and go after the real elite?


to much trouble, why do that when a soft target will press the masses against their own Gov.

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## nobody's_hero

> to much trouble, why do that when a soft target will press the masses against their own Gov.


Meh. Did 9/11 press the masses against our government? If that was the goal of the 9/11 attackers, then it backfired royally, because our military went rip-roaring across the Middle East while American citizens cheered them on with unquestioning belief in the cause.

I suppose it _can_ happen. I recall the subway attacks that got Spain to drop out of the "war on terror".

France is either about to drop out of the fight completely, or retaliate and escalate. I suppose we'll see.

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## vita3

France has been no#1 supporter of Islamic jihadists in Libya & now Syria.

I see this massacre as a quick about face change in Foreign Policy.

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## NOVALibertarian

> Multiculturalism at its finest.  France is a leader of this BS.


Probably not for long, since this event probably clinched the 2017 election for Marine Le Pen.

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## enhanced_deficit

*Paper owned by Israeli Zionist stands up for Free Speech in France*







> The French cops are not being that smart.  *Islamic tactics often involve a secondary attack*, usually a car bomb, set off after responders arrive.


That tactic may not be limited to Islamics, democratic agencies apparently are fluent in it too:


*BBC News - Drones kill rescuers in 'double tap'*
Oct 22, 2013 - Drones use a two-pronged method, killing those at the scene - and others later, say activists.*Outrage at CIA's deadly 'double tap' drone attacks * 
www.independent.co.uk 
Sep 25, 2012 - The  expansive use of "double-tap" drone strikes is just one of a number of  more recent phenomena in the covert war run by the US against ...
Report claims just one in fifty victims of  'surgical' US strikes in Pakistan  are known militants. Jerome Taylor  reports on a deadly new strategy. 

Above news should be wake up call for all US politicians who called for SWC team to fund "good Islamist militants"/Al Qaeda linked qroups in mideast.

*Will Neocons-Al Qaeda alliance  end well?*



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIRUeJYFZ94


*Obama's $195 Million Aid Package for Al Qaeda-Led Syrian Rebels* 
Aug 8, 2013 - President Barack Obama's announcement of an additional     $195 million in humanitarian and food aid to Syrian rebels came a day     after Al *...*

*Obama Waives Ban on Arming Terrorists to Aid Syrian Rebels* 
3 days ago - When I first highlighted the fact that the rebels in Syria     had large al-Qaeda elements to it back in December of last year, most     people thought it *...*


Incidentally, France in shift last week sided with Palestinians in a major way and voted at UN in favor of creating Palestinian State quickly angering Israel/US. This is the thank you France gets from the Islamics.




> CBS Local-6 hours ago
> It was France's deadliest postwar terrorist attack. ... and the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria *(ISIS) have repeatedly threatened to attack France.*




Related

*Iraq War, Abu Ghraib Torture ‘Motivated’ Paris Killers*





*#jesuis** un enfant irakien*



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEms5or9OyA



*Hamas Condemns Paris Killings Saying There's 'No Justification'*

 
A    Palestinian girl waves Palestinian and French flags during a protest    against the attack in Paris on satirical French newspaper Charlie  Hebdo.   | Photo: Reuters
                                                                                                                                                Published  11 January 2015   

                                                                                                                                                                                   Palestinian rebel group Hamas Sunday   condemned the  deadly attacks in France last week week saying there was   no  “justification for killing innocents.”

"(Hamas) stresses that its position on the latest  events in Paris is in   line with the statement issued by  the International Union of Muslim   Scholars which condemned the attack  on the Charlie Hebdo newspaper and   that any differences in opinion are  no justification for killing   innocents," Hamas said in a rare statement  in French.
                                                                                                                                                                   During a 50-day war with Israel in 2014, more than  2,100  Palestinians were killed, many of which were civilians.  

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/new...0111-0004.html


*Hollande asked Netanyahu not to attend Paris memorial march*

*Absence sought as  part  of  attempt to keep Israeli-Palestinian conflict out of European  show of   unity; After Netanyahu insisted on coming, French made it  clear Abbas   would be invited as well.*

                                                                                                                                                              By                                                                                                                                                                                     Barak Ravid                                                                                                                                           |                                                                                                                                   Jan. 12, 2015 

Jewish, Muslim heads join millions at Paris rally against racism, terror

4 French Jewish terror victims to be buried in Jerusalem

                                                                                                                                                                  French President Francois Hollande conveyed a message to    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the weekend asking him not to    come to Paris to take part in the march against terror on Sunday,    according to an Israeli source who was privy to the contacts between the    Elysees Palace and the Prime Minister’s Office in Jerusalem. The fact    that this message had been conveyed was first reported by Channel 2.                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      After the  French  government began to send invitations to world leaders  to  participate in  the rally against terror, Hollande’s national security   adviser,  Jacques Audibert, contacted his Israeli counterpart, Yossi   Cohen, and  said that Hollande would prefer that Netanyahu not attend,   the source  said.                                                  

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.636557





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytKibqRin8
*
'Bruised and defeated' girlfriend of murdered Charlie  Hebdo editor  will NOT attend his funeral after his family publicly  disowned her and  claimed they were not in a relationship*

Jeannette Bougrab, 41, claimed she was 'partner' of Charlie Hebdo editor
But family of Stephane Charbonnier 'Charb' have formally denied thisThey have asked that she does not speak about respected editor againFormer politician Bougrab talked of her pride at him 'dying on his feet'Picture has emerged of Bougrab with her 10-year-old daughter and CharbCharb was one of 12 people murdered by Said and Cherif Kouachi 
Published:   09:04 EST, 12 January 2015

A ‘bruised and defeated’ Jeannette Bougrab will not attend the funeral of her lover Charb – the slain editor of Charlie Hebdo.
Her  decision comes after an extraordinary intervention by his family  who  denied the couple had any committed relationship and demanded she  ceased  speaking about him.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ationship.html


*French police commissioner 'shot himself dead in his office after meeting relatives of a Charlie Hebdo victim'*


*Helric Fredou shot himself on Wednesday night in Limoges, France**He had been the deputy director of the regional police since 2012* *Commissioner Fredou was said to have been 'depressed' and overworked*  
 Published:   10:20 EST, 12 January 2015   
A  French police commissioner has reportedly taken his own life after   meeting the relatives of a victim murdered in the Charlie Hebdo   massacre. 
Helric  Fredou, 45, shot himself in his office with his police-issue gun  on  Wednesday night in Limoges, a city in central France, according to   France 3. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2906808/Police-commissioner-shot-dead-office-meeting-relatives-Charlie-Hebdo-victim-claim-French-TV-news.html


*Je Suis Hypocrite: From Free Speech rally to tribute to dictator who flogs bloggers, beheads*




*Paris Free Speech Rally*
January 12, 2015

World leaders joined French President Francois Hollande, including   British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel   and Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy



     24 January 2015 Last updated at 12:42 ET                         *

World leaders in Saudi Arabia to pay tribute to late king*

 
*French President Francois Hollande arrived in Riyadh on Saturday*

World leaders have gathered in Saudi Arabia to pay their respects following the death of King Abdullah on Friday.
*British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President   Francois Hollande are among those in the capital, Riyadh. A US   delegation, led by President Barack Obama, will arrive on Tuesday.*
The dignitaries from more than 10 countries are due to meet the new ruler, King Salman. 
         He has pledged continuity in the country's foreign and energy policies.  

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30962740


*Obama shortens trip to India to pay respects to the late King Abdullah’s family in Saudi Arabia*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...3f8_story.html


*Saudi blogger's second round of lashes postponed*
Updated 2151 GMT (0551 HKT) January 22, 2015
(CNN)After  enduring wounds from being struck 50 times, a Saudi blogger  has been  given a reprieve in receiving another 50 lashes this Friday,  said Amnesty International.
The case of Raif Badawi has garnered international headlines and global outrage.
Badawi  started a blog called "Free Saudi Liberals" in 2008 to encourage   discussion about Islam, particularly  the intrusion of the nation's   religious police in Saudis' personal lives. He was officially charged   with "adopting liberal thought," "founding a liberal website," and   "insulting Islam."
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/22/wo...gger-flogging/


*Beheadings, terror and tremors that could set the  Middle East  ablaze: MICHAEL BURLEIGH on why Saudi Arabia is more  vulnerable than it  has been for years*
Published:   17:46 EST, 23 January 2015

 
( Saudi King's Justice) The barbarous beheading of woman with a sword last week by four police officers in a street 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2924183/Beheadings-terror-tremors-set-Middle-East-ablaze-MICHAEL-BURLEIGH-Saudi-Arabia-vulnerable-years.html






*Comics A.M. | French teen arrested for posting ‘Charlie Hebdo’ parody*

                 by *Brigid Alverson* | January 23, 2015 @ 8:00 AM | 10 Comments | 

From the apparent cartoon in question

 A 16-year-old in Nantes, France, was arrested last week for posting a cartoon on Facebook that mocks the _Charlie Hebdo_ killings..
The cartoon shows someone holding a copy of _Charlie Hebdo_ and   being struck by bullets. Electronic Intifada  posts what is most likely   the offending cartoon (it had been shared  widely on social media), a   takeoff on one of the more notorious _Charlie Hebdo_ covers, accompanied by the text, “Charlie Hebdo is $#@!. It doesn’t stop bullets.”

*Paper owned by Israeli Zionist stands up for Free Speech in France*





*Media report: Rothschild family took over Charlie Hebdo in December*

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## vita3

Thanks enhanced. It's about time we talk up people going to jail for
taking any US tax dollar & arming "moderate" Islamic rebels.

The insanity has to stop & we all have a part to play.

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## amy31416

> The French cops are not being that smart.  Islamic tactics often involve a secondary attack, usually a car bomb, set off after responders arrive.  It's been a densely packed cop convention ever since it happened - right outside.
> 
> -t


Isn't the "double tap" an American thing (at least for the last 10 or so years)?

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## rpfocus

> Multiculturalism at its finest.  France is a leader of this BS.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Isn't the "double tap" an American thing (at least for the last 10 or so years)?


Well, I dunno about bombs and such, but a rifle 'double tap' has been an American thing since WW2.  Rapid-fire, one center mass one in the head.  Since about Desert Storm-ish the Marines were pushing a "triple-tap" rapid-fire 2 center mass one in the head.  But that's rifles (ETA and pistols), not bombs or missiles or whatever.

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## PRB

This is fake
-too coward to show their faces
-much less blow themselves up
-shouting Allahu Akbar doesn't make you a terrorist or even Muslim
-didn't credit a parent organization or cause

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## PRB

> Multiculturalism at its finest.  France is a leader of this BS.


No, they just have greater Muslim population. As far as multiculturalism, America leads it.

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## jonhowe

> This is fake
> -too coward to show their faces
> -much less blow themselves up
> -shouting Allahu Akbar doesn't make you a terrorist or even Muslim
> -didn't credit a parent organization or cause


-not uncommon
-they aren't done yet
-true, but it doesn't make it fake
-they did; al qaeda in yemen. this is blowback in it's purest form



If this was a false flag, it was for OUR side! It made martyrs of free speech and expression advocates and highlighted unintended consequences of western imperialism.

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## tangent4ronpaul

They know who did this.  Names, ages.  2 are brothers.

Suspect they will be captured or killed soon.

-t

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## PRB

> They know who did this.  Names, ages.  2 are brothers.
> 
> Suspect they will be captured or killed soon.
> 
> -t


just like how they quickly captured the Boston brothers, too easy = staged.

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## PRB

> If this was a false flag, it was for OUR side! It made martyrs of free speech and expression advocates and highlighted unintended consequences of western imperialism.


Except people in France and over the world will not care about the details. they just want retaliation and free speech.

the only time false flags can be 'for our side' is if martyrs were killed by government and military.

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## jonhowe

> Except people in France and over the world will not care about the details. they just want retaliation and free speech.
> 
> the only time false flags can be 'for our side' is if martyrs were killed by government and military.


Retaliation against those who did this (the 3 shooters and any who directly helped plan or fund the attack) is perfectly reasonable.

The victims in this attack risked their lives to stand up to intolerance, both in the muslim world and in their own government. They were persecuted by both, prosecuted by the latter, and murdered by the former. There is blood on a lot of people's hands today.





> just like how they quickly captured the Boston brothers, too easy = staged.


You consider that operation quick and easy? I thought it was a massive sprawling dragnet that paralyzed a city and got a cop and a suspect killed. Hmm.

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## HOLLYWOOD

Hah Hah, well, that didn't take long... all according to plan.




Bloomberg reports, South Carolina US Senator Lindsay Graham:* 

"Cutting Intelligence Budget is Insane"
*
*Senator points to Paris attack on need to keep spending*

*Says attacks can only be thwarted with intelligence*
*
'Get Them before they Get You'


Hours later, the next political fraudster took the stage on Bloomberg's show 'With All Due Respect" with propagandist-Marxist Mark Haleprin & John Heilemann:

Rick Santorum,* 


> "Having an active intelligence in your community to findout what's happening. I believe in freedom of religion, you'll find no one stronger about freedom of religion than I*, but every freedom has limits*" "We need to have that information(NSA/.Gov spying) and we need to act on that information. Finally, we have to good to the breeding grounds, like ISIS and destroy it where it is. I think the president has not taken the battle to ISIS or very seriously. If you look at the number strikes that are occuring, quote to defeat ISIS, it's a 'Drip, Drip', not an effort to defeat the enemy. That sends another message that we are not serious about confronting this problem"


No mention by Halperin or Heilemann on Rich Santorum's Felony fraud/wire fraud in milking $10,000s in rural education subsidies, or that Santorum lobbyist past or the newly funded propaganda and elitist establishment 501c3:
 
Who we are | American Bridge PAC 



> American Bridge 21st Century is a progressive research and  communications organization committed to holding Republicans accountable  for their words and actions and helping you ascertain when Republican  candidates are pretending to be something theyre not.


Santorum's Bio: 

Chairman and CEO, EchoLight Studios (2013-present) 
Candidate, President of the United States of America (2012)
Co-Founder, Patriot Voices (2012 aka Campaign money funnel to friends and family)
Senior Fellow, Ethics and Public Policy Center (2007-Present  Washington, D.C.s premier institute dedicated to applying the  Judeo-Christian moral tradition to critical issues of public policy.  From the Cold War to the War on Terrorism)
Consultant, CONSOL Energy Inc. (2007-2011 aka Washington Lobbyist) 
Consultant, Clapham Group (2010-2011 aka Washington Metro Influence) 
Consultant, American Continental Group (2009-2011 Washington Lobbyist)
Registered Agent, S.T. More LLC (Lobbyist)

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## devil21

> This is fake
> -too coward to show their faces
> -much less blow themselves up
> -shouting Allahu Akbar doesn't make you a terrorist or even Muslim
> -didn't credit a parent organization or cause


This one doesn't strike me as fake, though not enough info and video to dissect yet.  The 'car bomb' pic is definitely questionable though.  Looks more like a car was just set on fire and a picture taken of it.  Little to no debris indicating an explosion around the car.

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## DFF

> This one doesn't strike me as fake, though not enough info and video to dissect yet.  The 'car bomb' pic is definitely questionable though.  Looks more like a car was just set on fire and a picture taken of it.  Little to no debris indicating an explosion around the car.


...but this _proves_ the Mossad had nothing to with the killings? Don't ya' get it. Gee whiz.

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## DFF

> "Cutting Intelligence Budget is Insane"
> 
> Senator points to Paris attack on need to keep spending


*MOAR!*




> Says attacks can only be thwarted with intelligence


*MOAR!*




> 'Get Them before they Get You'


*MOAR!!!*

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## LawnWake

This has nothing to do with multiculturalism. This is just another act of blowback.

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## RonPaulIsGreat

Blah, Blah, Blah. 

I don't know, it's getting really hard to see Islam as something of value. 

Multiculturalism by the way only works, when you give the pot time to simmer in the new bits. Constantly adding uncooked bits, then serving it out like it's been properly cooked(integrated), makes for a bad and possibly deadly dinner. 

Immigration should be a very low percentage of the population every year like sub 1%. 

Anyway, Europe is even more of a mess than the U. S.

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## devil21

> ...but this _proves_ the Mossad had nothing to with the killings? Don't ya' get it. Gee whiz.


Dunno about all that.  I do get a sense this was a real event.  The drills are pretty much an American thing.  

Who perpetrated and for what reason though?  I wouldn't put it past Mossad to do it as a false flag, considering the recent developments with France supporting Palestinian statehood in the UN.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.634733

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## enhanced_deficit

> ...but this _proves_ the Mossad had nothing to with the killings? Don't ya' get it. Gee whiz.


To be fair, since Lavon Affair bombings that were aimed to frame Islamists, no false flag bombings by Mosad have been in media news.

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## 69360

> Multiculturalism at its finest.  France is a leader of this BS.


The Nordic countries are worse, but France is pretty bad with the forced multiculturalism. 




> Probably not for long, since this event probably clinched the 2017 election for Marine Le Pen.


I was thinking that too. She may not win the election, but FN just became a whole lot more viable. 




> This has nothing to do with multiculturalism. This is just another act of blowback.


Oh it does, when you let radical Islamists into your country, then turn around and bomb Islamic countries things like this happen. Can't have it both ways.

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## HOLLYWOOD

> This one doesn't strike me as fake, though not enough info and video to dissect yet.  The 'car bomb' pic is definitely questionable though.  Looks more like a car was just set on fire and a picture taken of it.  Little to no debris indicating an explosion around the car.


Unknown at this time, but reviewing all the videos and information provided from most sources, this was a professional hit, very pro organized crime or government type op. Double masked gunmen, new footwear, special weapons, stolen vehicles, then the bazaar social media postings,  etc...

The only thing that leaves this with open questions, the gunmen didn't burn that getaway car they left behind, the one they departed the scene in, but it's unknown if they made it DNA proof(covered the inside) or bleached the vehicle prior to switching transportation to kill any DNA residual or maybe... they intentionally left DNA residual they want the forensic team to find. We shall see how this plays out and where the links are communicated on the technical forensic results.

PS: There's 5 million Muslims in France

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## TER

> This is fake


Nah, this one is real, like the many others being done in Syria, Iraq, on and on and on.

It is time that the citizenry, including those who call themselves Muslims, to wake up.  I wonder if this is the time that Europe will say enough is enough.

We mustn't forget that the goal of the jihadist (which was the goal for Muhammed, and those who follow him) is to establish the entire world under Islamic rule.  The sly and purely evil tactics these followers of Muhammed have done today is the very evangelism of Islam.  These terrorists are Islamic apostles.  And it is through fear, intimidation, and decapitating ruthlessness that they convert a nation.   The same methods they use on their own nations under Sharia Law.

Islam is not a religion of peace but of the sword.  And the current MO for these jihadist (whether a recent innovation or the same old playbook used for a long time) is for the enemy nations to react and create more restive laws, to become more authoritative, to remove the liberties and freedoms of the infidels, (and essentially put the dirty work on the enemy governments and foreign rulers) so that when the time is right (which may take years or decades or even centuries), the followers of Muhammed might establish Islamic rule over their communities in order to convert the entire world.   

Through fear, intimidation, and the power of numbers through mass breeding, the preparation for the establishment of a world Caliphate has been pursued by the most strict and loyal followers of Muhammed, those who represent truly Muhammed's image and likenessness.  The true Muslims I mean, and not the modern day moderates (at least, outward acting moderates) who out of loyalty and fear stay silent because they are too afraid to speak out about this age old tradition of Islamic evengelism.  A tradition which is not in contradiction to the founder of the religion (as it was with the Crusades), but exactly in accordance to it's founder's exhortation and example - through subjugation, tyranny, and fear.

Hopefully the so called 'moderate' Muslims will come to see the lie of Muhammed and the evil of Muhammadism, and eventually come to Christ, the risen Sun of Righteousness and Light, Who floods away through brilliance the crescent moon and reveals the glory of God.

Or at least they can become so moderate as to become nominal and actually apostate in heart.  The more Muslims who convert to Christianity (or even to secularism), the more peace there will be in this world.  Of this, I have no doubt.  

Just as these brave Islamic warrior jihadist have evangelized today, likewise we must become warriors for Christ and proclaim the gospel of Christ to them, in our conversations and in our meetings and our willingness to die for Christ.  Not with automatic assault rifles. Not with RPGs, or drones.  But in proclaiming that we will not give up our God-given liberties, nor our faith, so as to live under the teachings of Muhammad.

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## charrob

RPI Chairman Ron Paul takes a different look at the recent attack in Paris. Is it not a form of blowback for France's enthusiastic interventionism in the Middle East? Watch the interview at the link:


*Ron Paul: Paris Attack 'Obscene,' But Blowback for French Interventionism
*
RPI Chairman Ron Paul was on NewsMax today to discuss the attack on a Paris-based satirical magazine that left 12 people dead. The attackers are said to be radical Islamists who objected to the magazine's vulgar depictions of their faith and of Muhammad, Islam's prophet. 

Dr. Paul made it clear that libertarians reject all such initiation of force, which he described as "obscene," but he also pointed out that these kinds of attacks do not happen in a vacuum. Said Dr. Paul: 

France has been a target for many, many years, because theyve been involved in foreign affairs in Libya, and they really prodded us along in  recently in Libya, but theyve been involved in Algeria, so theyve had attacks like this, you know, not infrequently. So, it does involve, you know, their foreign policy as well.
Dr. Paul made the point that Western countries, including France, have been engaged in aggressive and interventionist policies in the Middle East that have left hundreds of thousands of people dead, while often supporting dictators and arming radicals. These policies have consequences. He said:

Its that overall policy which invites retaliation, and they see us as intruders. But its a little bit more complex, you know, when they hit us, either here at home, and hit civilians, and whats happening in France. But I dont think you can divorce these instances from the overall foreign policy.
Watch the interview:

----------


## DFF

Most likely this was another instance of terrorism organized by the international criminal banking cartel in order to justify increased spending on weapons and more warfare in the middle east by creating a wave of anti-Islam indignation in the west.

So...basically the exact same thing that's been going on non-stop since 9/11 which WAS a false flag operation.

----------


## PaleoPaul

Ron Paul has officially lost it.  WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?!  He used to be so insightful and intelligent...now he sounds like Grandpa Simpson escaping from his retirement home.

----------


## FloralScent

> Except people in France and over the world will not care about the details. they just want retaliation and free speech.
> 
> the only time false flags can be 'for our side' is if martyrs were killed by government and military.


They haven't had free speech for quite some time.

----------


## Suzanimal

> They know who did this.  Names, ages.  2 are brothers.
> 
> Suspect they will be captured or killed soon.
> 
> -t


Paris Attack Suspect Dead, Two in Custody, U.S. Officials Say




> One of the suspects in the Paris attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine has been killed and the two others are in custody, two senior U.S. counterterrorism officials told NBC News on Wednesday.
> 
> Authorities earlier had identified the three men as Said Kouachi and Cherif Kouachi, both French and in their early 30s, and Hamyd Mourad, 18. It couldn't immediately be determined which of the suspects was killed or whether the two others were wounded.
> 
> An official who spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to publicly discuss the investigation told The Associated Press that the men were linked to a Yemeni terrorist network. Cherif Kouachi was convicted in 2008 of terrorism charges for helping funnel fighters to Iraq's insurgency and sentenced to 18 months in prison.
> 
> Twelve people were killed in the attack by gunmen, armed with AK-47s, who attacked the offices of Charlie Hebdo, a publication that has enraged Muslims for publishing cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.
> 
> A source familiar with the investigation told NBC News on Wednesday night that two officers who had been assigned to protect Charbonnier for the past several years came down from an upper floor and intercepted the gunmen. Both officers were shot, however, and one died at the scene. The other was wounded and is expected to survive.
> ...

----------


## UWDude

> The more Muslims who convert to Christianity (or even to secularism), the more peace there will be in this world.  Of this, I have no doubt.


Americans kill far more Muslims than Muslims killing Americans, and Americans are Christian and or Secular for the most part.

And your statement is religious idiocy at it's best.  Cuz yer god is the true god, right?




> Hopefully the so called 'moderate' Muslims will come to see the lie of Muhammed and the evil of Muhammadism, and eventually come to Christ, the risen Sun of Righteousness and Light, Who floods away through brilliance the crescent moon and reveals the glory of God.


LoL

Who is this guy?  I've never seen him post before.  He must hang out in the religion forum and argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or something.  But really, this dude is hilarious.

----------


## moostraks

> Nah, this one is real, like the many others being done in Syria, Iraq, on and on and on.
> 
> It is time that the citizenry, including those who call themselves Muslims, to wake up.  I wonder if this is the time that Europe will say enough is enough.
> 
> We mustn't forget that the goal of the jihadist (which was the goal for Muhammed, and those who follow him) is to establish the entire world under Islamic rule.  The sly and purely evil tactics these followers of Muhammed have done today is the very evangelism of Islam.  These terrorists are Islamic apostles.  And it is through fear, intimidation, and decapitating ruthlessness that they convert a nation.   The same methods they use on their own nations under Sharia Law.
> 
> Islam is not a religion of peace but of the sword.  And the current MO for these jihadist (whether a recent innovation or the same old playbook used for a long time) is for the enemy nations to react and create more restive laws, to become more authoritative, to remove the liberties and freedoms of the infidels, (and essentially put the dirty work on the enemy governments and foreign rulers) so that when the time is right (which may take years or decades or even centuries), the followers of Muhammed might establish Islamic rule over their communities in order to convert the entire world.   
> 
> Through fear, intimidation, and the power of numbers through mass breeding, the preparation for the establishment of a world Caliphate has been pursued by the most strict and loyal followers of Muhammed, those who represent truly Muhammed's image and likenessness.  The true Muslims I mean, and not the modern day moderates (at least, outward acting moderates) who out of loyalty and fear stay silent because they are too afraid to speak out about this age old tradition of Islamic evengelism.  A tradition which is not in contradiction to the founder of the religion (as it was with the Crusades), but exactly in accordance to it's founder's exhortation and example - through subjugation, tyranny, and fear.
> ...


Christianity is often a religion of the sword as well, spread by enthusiastic supporters who conquered other civilizations and commanded that non-believers comply or die, often through gruesome methods. Currently a majority of self proclaimed Christians support torture as opposed to a majority of non-religious folks who oppose torture. Christians need to worry about their own identity and shortcomings rather than proclaiming how if everyone just converts to Christianity then peace will occur because it is always the other religions causing all the problems.

----------


## TER

> Christianity is often a religion of the sword as well, spread by enthusiastic supporters who conquered other civilizations and commanded that non-believers comply or die, often through gruesome methods. Currently a majority of self proclaimed Christians support torture as opposed to a majority of non-religious folks who oppose torture. Christians need to worry about their own identity and shortcomings rather than proclaiming how if everyone just converts to Christianity then peace will occur because it is always the other religions causing all the problems.


We have different definition of the word 'Christian'.  We both however will agree that those who kill in cold blood because of a cartoon are evil (or perhaps you will give an apology for that as well?). Those who do those things these jihadists did today and call themselves Christians are in fact LIARS.  And even the most nominal Christian or atheist (or founder of their own religion as many are in this forum and outside of it) can see how such an act is anti- Jesus Christ.

What they won't say is that these tactics and acts by the Muslim are anti-Muhammed.  They are indeed the fruit of his works, and should be called out so.  These were very good Muslims today doing what is called for by the Law of Islam.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Paris Attack Suspect Dead, Two in Custody, U.S. Officials Say


If they had not arrested the guy for wanting to go off and fight in Iraq, there is a pretty good chance he would never have survived long enough to shoot up this magazine.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Ron Paul has officially lost it.  WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?!  He used to be so insightful and intelligent...now he sounds like Grandpa Simpson escaping from his retirement home.


-rep

message:  I have been here since the beginning and this is the second neg rep I have ever sent.

-t

----------


## TER

> If they had not arrested the guy for wanting to go off and fight in Iraq, there is a pretty good chance he would never have survived long enough to shoot up this magazine.


Someone would have taken his place today to please the Prophet.  At least in Syria and Iraq he could rape young girls and behead Christians to avenge the Prophet and give glory to Allah.

----------


## jjdoyle

> If they had not arrested the guy for wanting to go off and fight in Iraq, there is a pretty good chance he would never have survived long enough to shoot up this magazine.


Did you see the reason given for his motivation for going, and for trying to find fighters to go?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Did you see the reason given for his motivation for going, and for trying to find fighters to go?


NO!

linky please...

-t

----------


## TER

> -rep
> 
> message:  I have been here since the beginning and this is the second neg rep I have ever sent.
> 
> -t



Ron Paul is right that interventionism is a root cause, but he is so hung up on blowback that he has made it almost an idol of his and has lost sight of other factors and root causes. many which stem directly from Islamic theology and doctrine.  We get it Dr. Paul, many people on account of your good work have a better understanding of blowback and how American interventionalist is stoking the flames.  But let us not lose sight on other important factors which have real world consequences such as the Islamic duty to spread Sharia Law.

----------


## jjdoyle

> NO!
> 
> linky please...
> 
> -t


Here it is:



> Cherif Kouachi was sentenced to 18 months in prison after being convicted of terrorism charges in 2008 for helping funnel fighters to Iraq's insurgency. He said he was outraged at the torture of Iraqi inmates at the U.S. prison at Abu Ghraib near Baghdad.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...01-07-16-44-52

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

> Someone would have taken his place today to please the Prophet.  At least in Syria and Iraq he could rape young girls and behead Christians to avenge the Prophet and give glory to Allah.


what do you mean 'avenge the Prophet'?

----------


## Ender

> Ron Paul is right that interventionism is a root cause, but he is so hung up on blowback that he has made it almost an idol of his and has lost sight of other factors and root causes. many which stem directly from Islamic theology and doctrine.  We get it Dr. Paul, many people on account of your good work have a better understanding of blowback and how American interventionalist is stoking the flames.  But let us not lose sight on other important factors which have real world consequences such as the Islamic duty to spread Sharia Law.


That's a crock.

Blowback is what brought "terrorists" to the forefront and it is the leading cause of most ME confrontation.

Your prejudices are abundant and it is obvious you know nothing about Islam- only what MSM tells you- nor do you understand what so-called Christians have done to the world for centuries.

----------


## fr33

> That's a crock.
> 
> Blowback is what brought "terrorists" to the forefront and it is the leading cause of most ME confrontation.
> 
> Your prejudices are abundant and it is obvious you know nothing about Islam- only what MSM tells you- nor do you understand what so-called Christians have done to the world for centuries.


I don't think this newspaper and it's cartoonists represent those who are waging war. These individuals chose this target for another reason.

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

Who attributed the reasoning for these attacks as the magazine's publication?  If that is the real reason I think we can agree this isn't blowback..  recruiting fighters over torture, that is blowback, killing people over free speech is just murder.  And I think I saw the number in this thread that 5 million Muslims live in France...  this was three people, that is a pretty damn small percentage of a populace,,, I guess if you subscribe to TER's logic there was a lot of 'naughty' Muslims today, with such a small percentage of Muslims 'obeying' these so called laws it is almost like it doesn't exist.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> RPI Chairman Ron Paul takes a different look at the recent attack in Paris. Is it not a form of blowback for France's enthusiastic interventionism in the Middle East? Watch the interview at the link:


All this is happening in the backdrop of West's military interventions among muslim lands in mideast, in some ways even the mag stance may be part of blowback ( in their minds) and as may be todays news. But there is still much confusion out there. Many questions if it was ISIS linked group, why they picked these targets? If it was false flag, why this confusion in news as news would be probably packaged cleanly.
*
Confusion as French Hunt Magazine Attack Suspects*
By Pete Williams
After a long day of rapidly changing information, U.S. counterterrorism officials said Wednesday night that they cannot be certain of the status of the three suspects in the Paris attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine. Information from French sources has been contradictory, they said.

Earlier Wednesday, two senior U.S. counterterrorism officials told NBC News that one of the suspects in the attack had been killed and that two others were in custody. However, the officials later said the information that was the basis of that account could not be confirmed. 
Associated Press that the men were linked to a Yemeni terrorist network.  Cherif Kouachi was convicted in 2008 of terrorism charges for helping  funnel fighters to Iraq's insurgency and sentenced to 18 months in  prison.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/par...spects-n281761

*France to deploy aircraft carrier to fight ISIS—report
Agence France-Presse 10:13 AM | Wednesday, January 7th, 2015
*PARIS, France – The French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle and its fleet will be deployed to the Gulf to support operations against the Islamic State group, a military news site reported on Tuesday.

The deployment of the marine battle group is due to be announced by President Francois Hollande when he gives his annual new year’s speech to the armed forces onboard the Charles de Gaulle on January 14, according to the “Mer et Marine” news site.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/662798/...ht-isis-report






> Just as these brave Islamic warrior jihadist have evangelized today,  likewise we must become warriors for Christ and proclaim the gospel of  Christ to them, in our conversations and in our meetings and our  willingness to die for Christ.  Not with automatic assault rifles. Not  with RPGs, or drones.
> ...


Did you mean this  process of evangelicaling? If so, did they make any difference for good?




http://www.gallup.com/poll/21937/pro...-iraq-war.aspx

*Biggest WARMONGERS! –  2005-6 Gallup Poll: Protestants and Frequent  Churchgoers Most Supportive  of Iraq War — Least supportive are  non-Christians and people with  no religion*

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Who attributed the reasoning for these attacks as the magazine's publication?  If that is the real reason I think we can agree this isn't blowback..  recruiting fighters over torture, that is blowback, killing people over free speech is just murder.  And I think I saw the number in this thread that 5 million Muslims live in France...  this was three people, that is a pretty damn small percentage of a populace,,, I guess if you subscribe to TER's logic there was a lot of 'naughty' Muslims today, with such a small percentage of Muslims 'obeying' these so called laws it is almost like it doesn't exist.


I think you are making the same mistake as the people who hate Ron Paul over the concept of blowback.  Blowback doesn't have the be right, or just, or moral.  Blowback can be stone cold wrong and evil.  It's just basic retribution.  It is horrifically wrong for them to attack a newspaper on account of being offended for their religion.  That doesn't make it any less 'blowback.' Blowback simply means they got pissed because of something you did and decided to get revenge.  There is no moral value involved, for good, bad, or indifferent.

----------


## AuH20

> Christianity is often a religion of the sword as well, spread by enthusiastic supporters who conquered other civilizations and commanded that non-believers comply or die, often through gruesome methods. Currently a majority of self proclaimed Christians support torture as opposed to a majority of non-religious folks who oppose torture. Christians need to worry about their own identity and shortcomings rather than proclaiming how if everyone just converts to Christianity then peace will occur because it is always the other religions causing all the problems.



One key fact you are omitting. Christianity experienced a major reformation. Islam hasn't even crossed that bridge yet, which explains why silly incidents like this occur over the alleged defacing of an image. That's where the problems lie.

----------


## AuH20

> Who attributed the reasoning for these attacks as the magazine's publication?  If that is the real reason I think we can agree this isn't blowback..  recruiting fighters over torture, that is blowback, killing people over free speech is just murder.  And I think I saw the number in this thread that 5 million Muslims live in France...  this was three people, that is a pretty damn small percentage of a populace,,, I guess if you subscribe to TER's logic there was a lot of 'naughty' Muslims today, with such a small percentage of Muslims 'obeying' these so called laws it is almost like it doesn't exist.


I agree. This specific event has nothing to do with blowback like say the U.S.S. Cole attack. This was purely about fervent religious fanaticism.

----------


## moostraks

> One key fact you are omitting. Christianity experienced a major reformation. Islam hasn't even crossed that bridge yet, which explains why silly incidents like this occur over the alleged defacing of an image. That's where the problems lie.


Which major reformation would this be? The Protestant one? Are you serious?

----------


## moostraks

> We have different definition of the word 'Christian'.  We both however will agree that those who kill in cold blood because of a cartoon are evil (or perhaps you will give an apology for that as well?). Those who do those things these jihadists did today and call themselves Christians are in fact LIARS.  And even the most nominal Christian or atheist (or founder of their own religion as many are in this forum and outside of it) can see how such an act is anti- Jesus Christ.
> 
> What they won't say is that these tactics and acts by the Muslim are anti-Muhammed.  They are indeed the fruit of his works, and should be called out so.  These were very good Muslims today doing what is called for by the Law of Islam.


I have not offered any apology here. I think people like you, who make sweeping accusations against others are hypocritical when they put blinders on to the history of the "Christian" church. Why should you be entitled to distance yourself from others who abuse the Christian title but other faiths are not given the same respect?

----------


## enhanced_deficit

As mentoned by others, 'blowback' is a technical term for a reactionary phenomenon and not a term for only when a reaction is moral/ethical/noble etc.
This news in the context of recent history is indeed technically blowback. 




> One key fact you are omitting. Christianity experienced a major reformation. Islam hasn't even crossed that bridge yet, which explains why silly incidents like this occur over the alleged defacing of an image. That's where the problems lie.


Since charity begins at home, perhaps much more reformation is needed. Elective war blood bath that killed/maimed/destroyed  millions of human lives in Iraq had its biggest supporters in the frequent churcggoers in the US (in 2006 when it was clear to people of almost all intelligence levels that that bloodbath was started based on lies).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21937/pro...-iraq-war.aspx

*Biggest WARMONGERS! –  2005-6 Gallup Poll: Protestants and Frequent Churchgoers Most Supportive  of Iraq War — Least supportive are non-Christians and people with  no religion*

----------


## Ender

> One key fact you are omitting. Christianity experienced a major reformation. Islam hasn't even crossed that bridge yet, which explains why silly incidents like this occur over the alleged defacing of an image. That's where the problems lie.


Uh.....no.

Who kills more people on the planet? Who causes the most war? Who experienced a major reformation?

----------


## fr33

No true scotsman. 

These shooters are Muslims. Their opinions of Islam are obviously different than most Muslims but to say this version of blowback is the same as 911 or whatever is ridiculous. This blowback is because of their precious prophet being criticized. Such a blowback against free speech deserves blowback right back at them. If you want to kill over the concept of free speech, I hope you receive a similar response.

They didn't attack something that could even remotely be construed as a government or representative of the people. They chose a small private business. Ron Paul is wrong about this. It's just like if The Onion were attacked or like when the Danish cartoonist was. There is no legitimate excuse for this. Being offended over words and pictures does not grant you the right to kill people.

----------


## twomp

> Ron Paul is right that interventionism is a root cause, but he is so hung up on blowback that he has made it almost an idol of his and has lost sight of other factors and root causes. many which stem directly from Islamic theology and doctrine.  We get it Dr. Paul, many people on account of your good work have a better understanding of blowback and how American interventionalist is stoking the flames.  But let us not lose sight on other important factors which have real world consequences such as the Islamic duty to spread Sharia Law.


You need to get off the propaganda. Let me ask you something, if it is really Islamic duty to spread "Sharia Law", why have we only been hearing about it in the last 15 years? Out of the many Muslim countries out there, how many of them live under "Sharia Law?" Here since you are too ignorant to know, let me help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applica...law_by_country

There is a list of countries that apply Sharia laws to their judicial system. Note the MUSLIM countries in green that have no Sharia Laws in their judicial system at all. The ONLY reason you are so terrified of Sharia Law now is the media and possibly your church has played a number on your feeble mind. Stop letting other people think for you.

----------


## Ender

> No true scotsman. 
> 
> These shooters are Muslims. Their opinions of Islam are obviously different than most Muslims but to say this version of blowback is the same as 911 or whatever is ridiculous. This blowback is because of their precious prophet being criticized. Such a blowback against free speech deserves blowback right back at them. If you want to kill over the concept of free speech, I hope you receive a similar response.
> 
> They didn't attack something that could even remotely be construed as a government or representative of the people. They chose a small private business. Ron Paul is wrong about this. It's just like if The Onion were attacked or like when the Danish cartoonist was. There is no legitimate excuse for this. Being offended over words and pictures does not grant you the right to kill people.


I don't think anyone here is saying that this grants anyone the right to kill. 

My comments are about obvious prejudice w/o taking responsibility for one's own faulty beliefs, prejudices, and what one supports when their own commits an atrocity.

----------


## milgram

The Danish cartoonists were also targeted for an attack by the people who carried out the Mumbai bombing.  The plan was to storm the Jyllands-Posten building, behead the people there, toss the heads into the street below.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031805407.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/david-headley/

----------


## NOVALibertarian

It's pretty hard to compare the actions of modern Christians to the actions those who follow the doctrine of Radical Islam.  Call me when the Westboro Baptist Church starts calling for a Christian State, forms their own militia, and starts beheading homosexuals and the like instead of merely picketing a few funerals.

----------


## fr33

> I don't think anyone here is saying that this grants anyone the right to kill. 
> 
> My comments are about obvious prejudice w/o taking responsibility for one's own faulty beliefs, prejudices, and what one supports when their own commits an atrocity.


There is no responsibility to be taken except for the killers in this situation. Disrespecting Muhammad is a human right that has been denied by murderers. Blowback is not an acceptable reason in this case. These attackers have been treated well by a country that didn't have to do that and they've probably $#@!ed over their peaceful brethren by doing this. You're going to see blowback in the next French elections and that is to be expected.

----------


## jjdoyle

> Paris Attack Suspect Dead, Two in Custody, U.S. Officials Say


Reports have been showing that one suspect is apparently alive, but turned himself in, and the other two (brothers I think) are still at large.

----------


## Ender

> It's pretty hard to compare the actions of modern Christians to the actions those who follow the doctrine of Radical Islam.  Call me when the Westboro Baptist Church starts calling for a Christian State, forms their own militia, and starts beheading homosexuals and the like instead of merely picketing a few funerals.


Ah, yes. Always so much more civilized to kill the rotten scum from a drone.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

One of the police officers killed by attackers was muslim and one of the cartoonists was jewish:

Jewish cartoonist Georges Wolinski among 12 dead in Paris shooting
   January 7, 2015 
Two of the reported fatalities in Wednesday’s attack were police  officers, according to the French daily newspaper Le Monde. Later  reports said that one of the officers was Muslim. 
http://www.jta.org/2015/01/07/news-o...paris-shooting


*BREAKING: #CharlieHebdo Suspect Part Of Group To Help Send Terrorists To Iraq To Fight US* 
January 7, 2015 by Charles C. Johnson 
Gotnews.com has independently confirmed that Cherif Kouachi once was a part of a plot to send Muslim fighters to Iraq in 2008.
Kouachi once said he was motivated by alleged prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib.


Any news on what was stance of this magazine towards Iraq war, Abu Ghraib? Did they ever cover it in their cartoons/satires?

----------


## NOVALibertarian

> Ah, yes. Always so much more civilized to kill the rotten scum from a drone.


They aren't killing in the name of their religion.  They would kill whether they're religious or not.  There is a difference between that and killing those in the name of your prophet who draw an unflattering picture of said prophet.

----------


## jjdoyle

> There is no responsibility to be taken except for the killers in this situation. Disrespecting Muhammad is a human right that has been denied by murderers. Blowback is not an acceptable reason in this case. These attackers have been treated well by a country that didn't have to do that and they've probably $#@!ed over their peaceful brethren by doing this. You're going to see blowback in the next French elections and that is to be expected.


I understand what you are saying, but I do think that when you are dealing with radicals, understanding what motivates them and angers them might be taken into consideration and not simply ignored for profits. Doing what the paper did was clearly a risk they were well aware of with the past threats and firebomb, but they continued doing so at their own risk. Was it worth it to publish cartoons and tweets in a joking fashion of a religion, just because they could? When you get into the mindset of propagandized people, you will see that reason is almost never an option for them.

At least one of the murderers had spent time in jail for trying to go and fight and find fighters for Iraq, and Abu Ghraib was apparently a big part of that reasoning. If that person's travel rights had been stopped out of France, then it would make sense (to me anyway) that if they were motivated enough to go to another country to fight, they might have been crazy enough to do so in their own country if something tipped the scales.

----------


## squarepusher

Violent people gunna violent

----------


## TheCount

> It's pretty hard to compare the actions of modern Christians to the actions those who follow the doctrine of Radical Islam.  Call me when the Westboro Baptist Church starts calling for a Christian State, forms their own militia, and starts beheading homosexuals and the like instead of merely picketing a few funerals.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

----------


## PRB

> Violent people gunna violent


Proper grammar : shooters gonna shoot.

----------


## PRB

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity


1. Bombing was in 1996, no homosexuals beheaded

2. Christian Identity is not fundamental Christian, it's racist. WBC may come closest to fundamental Christian, but far from committing any violence.

----------


## fr33

> I understand what you are saying, but I do think that when you are dealing with radicals, understanding what motivates them and angers them might be taken into consideration and not simply ignored for profits. Doing what the paper did was clearly a risk they were well aware of with the past threats and firebomb, but they continued doing so at their own risk. Was it worth it to publish cartoons and tweets in a joking fashion of a religion, just because they could? When you get into the mindset of propagandized people, you will see that reason is almost never an option for them.
> 
> At least one of the murderers had spent time in jail for trying to go and fight and find fighters for Iraq, and Abu Ghraib was apparently a big part of that reasoning. If that person's travel rights had been stopped out of France, then it would make sense (to me anyway) that if they were motivated enough to go to another country to fight, they might have been crazy enough to do so in their own country if something tipped the scales.


Who is more violent? The US government or Islamic terrorists?

Let's put this to a test.

I hate the USA. It steals half my money every year to wage war against multiple countries that I have no grievance against and give handouts to people that don't work at all.

Muhammad was a child molesting war monger.

Who will kill me first?

Will I be killed for these statements?

Either one that wants to kill me can go $#@! themselves. I've got a shotgun loaded with buckshot ready and in reach waiting for them.

I'm a fan of Southpark. Bring it on.

This is not 9/11 and I am not a Frenchman. None of my political stances have ever benefited my own well-being. I'll be damned if I will adjust this stance to please others who seem to be retarded.

----------


## PRB

> Who is more violent? The US government or Islamic terrorists?
> 
> Let's put this to a test.
> 
> I hate the USA. It steals half my money every year to wage war against multiple countries that I have no grievance against and give handouts to people that don't work at all.
> 
> Muhammad was a child molesting war monger.
> 
> Who will kill me first?
> ...


 Huh? so the fact I'm not a US government that takes your money means you'll forgive me for my violences????

----------


## fr33

> Huh? so the fact I'm not a US government that takes your money means you'll forgive me for my violences????


No...

----------


## PRB

> No...


Cool. you scared me there for a minute.

----------


## milgram

The WaPo is printing a cartoon but most major media outlets are not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...hebdo-cartoon/




> Samples of Charlie Hebdos work thus might appear critical to explaining this act of terrorism. Fred Hiatt, the editorial page editor of the Washington Post (and boss of the Erik Wemple Blog), said the following about his rationale for publishing the cartoon: I think seeing the cover will help readers understand what this is all about.
> 
> But many mainstream U.S. media feel otherwise: The Associated Press, CNN, the New York Times, MSNBC, NBC News and others have all shunned the images under one rationale or another. The New York Times has an expansive explanation: Under Times standards, we do not normally publish images or other material deliberately intended to offend religious sensibilities. After careful consideration, Times editors decided that describing the cartoons in question would give readers sufficient information to understand todays story. Thats from an official statement provided to the Erik Wemple Blog. Newer media outlets like Gawker, the Daily Beast and BuzzFeed have published the images.



NY Daily News allows some ethnic caricatures but not others:

----------


## UWDude

> It's pretty hard to compare the actions of modern Christians to the actions those who follow the doctrine of Radical Islam.  Call me when the Westboro Baptist Church starts calling for a Christian State, forms their own militia, and starts beheading homosexuals and the like instead of merely picketing a few funerals.


Modern Christians are the most likely to support unjust and murderous wars in the middle east.  FACT.  These wars kill 100 times more people than all muslim terrorist attacks combined.  FACT.

----------


## UWDude

> Any news on what was stance of this magazine towards Iraq war, Abu Ghraib? Did they ever cover it in their cartoons/satires?


I'm curious about this too.  I have a feeling, if they liked to lampoon Islam often, (very easy target, especially in France) they probably had no problem with the wars in the middle East, and posted articles and cartoons supporting murder in the middle East often, much like the dead drunken bloviating idiot Chirstopher Hitchens.

----------


## fr33

> Modern Christians are the most likely to support unjust and murderous wars in the middle east.  FACT.  These wars kill 100 times more people than all muslim terrorist attacks combined.  FACT.


Killing people is $#@!ty no matter what cult you belong to.

----------


## UWDude

> Killing people is $#@!ty no matter what cult you belong to.


American and Christian Hypocrisy is a giant pile of $#@!.

----------


## devil21

Can't find multiple meanings in that

----------


## PRB

> Can't find multiple meanings in that


Good luck! Chuck!

----------


## UWDude

Jesus Charlie, eh?
"Je Suis Charlie" is french for "I am Charlie"  Je parle un peux Francais.

Kind of like 911.  Geeze, phone number where you call authorities and ask them to save you from a crisis... ...oh, 911, oh September 11th!  Look at that!

It's mind control magic.

----------


## PRB

> Jesus Charlie, eh?
> "Je Suis Charlie" is french for "I am Charlie"  Je parle un peux Francais.
> 
> Kind of like 911.  Geeze, phone number where you call authorities and ask them to save you from a crisis... ...oh, 911, oh September 11th!  Look at that!
> 
> It's mind control magic.


It can also mean I follow Charlie.

----------


## UWDude

You have got to be $#@!ting me.  This trick, again!?

From http://news.yahoo.com/police-hunt-th...-business.html




> A total of seven people had been arrested since the attack, he said. Police sources said they were mostly acquaintances of the two main suspects. *One source said one of the brothers had been identified by his identity card, left in the getaway car.*


Wait a minute, two brothers carry out a professional hit, with deadly precision, killing twelve, and get away from the entire French Dragnet, IN FRANCE... 
..and one of them leaves behind his identity card?

This is like the 2 9/11 planes being vaporized, but magically, one of the hijackers ID cards came fluttering down, and was given to police by a man "walking down the street".

----------


## UWDude

> It can also mean I follow Charlie.


Perhaps, but not literally.  It might be a French turn of phrase to mean "I follow", but you learn "Je suis" and "je m'appelle" on day one of French class.

----------


## PRB

> You have got to be $#@!ting me.  This trick, again!?
> 
> From http://news.yahoo.com/police-hunt-th...-business.html
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a minute, two brothers carry out a professional hit, with deadly precision, killing twelve, and get away from the entire French Dragnet, IN FRANCE... 
> ..and one of them leaves behind his identity card?
> 
> This is like the 2 9/11 planes being vaporized, but magically, one of the hijackers ID cards came fluttering down, and was given to police by a man "walking down the street".


They ARE Muslims, maybe police have a "show me your papers" habit for people who look Muslim.

----------


## UWDude

Oh by the way, let us not forget France's Burqa ban, and banning of religious symbols at school.
Not champions of free speech.  Hypocrisy.

----------


## devil21



----------


## UWDude

> 


You know, that cartoon might be a lot less funny, if there was constant bombing in Catholic nations by non-catholic nations.  If that was the case, I'd surmise there would be a lot of catholics that would take offense to that.

'tis funny, though.

----------


## Demigod

> That's a crock.
> 
> Blowback is what brought "terrorists" to the forefront and it is the leading cause of most ME confrontation.
> 
> Your prejudices are abundant and it is obvious you know nothing about Islam- only what MSM tells you- nor do you understand what so-called Christians have done to the world for centuries.


Do you even know what the muslims have done to this world for centuries ?

----------


## Demigod

> You need to get off the propaganda. Let me ask you something, if it is really Islamic duty to spread "Sharia Law", why have we only been hearing about it in the last 15 years? Out of the many Muslim countries out there, how many of them live under "Sharia Law?" Here since you are too ignorant to know, let me help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applica...law_by_country
> 
> There is a list of countries that apply Sharia laws to their judicial system. Note the MUSLIM countries in green that have no Sharia Laws in their judicial system at all. The ONLY reason you are so terrified of Sharia Law now is the media and possibly your church has played a number on your feeble mind. Stop letting other people think for you.


Those green countries except for Turkey are all former communist countries.The only reason they don't have sharia law yet is because of 60 years of atheist teachings + leftover politicians from that era ,nothing more.To suggest there is any kind of governing law in Western Africa is ridiculous.Just look at where Turkey is going,it took a complete disaster after the Balkan wars and  WW I to realize what is holding them down and they forgot everything in less than a 100 years.

----------


## puppetmaster

> You have got to be $#@!ting me.  This trick, again!?
> 
> From http://news.yahoo.com/police-hunt-th...-business.html
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a minute, two brothers carry out a professional hit, with deadly precision, killing twelve, and get away from the entire French Dragnet, IN FRANCE... 
> ..and one of them leaves behind his identity card?
> 
> This is like the 2 9/11 planes being vaporized, but magically, one of the hijackers ID cards came fluttering down, and was given to police by a man "walking down the street".


Bingo.

----------


## juleswin

The french are so much about free speech except when it comes to holocaust denial. Sorry, the French are the worst people when it comes to destruction of other countries. They go in and sponsor the worst and most radical elements supporting a revolution. I dunno why but I find it hard to believe just like the Pakistani school shooting that they "radicals" did this when the radicals work hand in hand with these governments. The fighters doing all the heavy lifting in places like Syria and Iraq are being helped by the likes of France. 

And if it turns out to be a real attack, then I put a higher blame on the govt than the people who actually did this. You work with radical islamic fighter, fighters so extreme that regular muslims are afraid of them to your house and then are surprised when they act out of line. 

I will just wait to see the kind of "reform" and "remedy" offered by the french govt to see if they desired this incident in the first place. $#@!ing $#@!s (both the french govt and the extremists)

----------


## UWDude

> Do you even know what the muslims have done to this world for centuries ?


Uhh, genocide of native Americans, slavery, two world wars, tons of nationalist wars, and constant bombing of the middle east, killing millions for the past two decades?  Or did you mean the napalming of Vietnam?

----------


## TheCount

> Do you even know what the muslims have done to this world for centuries ?


Did they interfere with the governments of christian nations for hundreds of years, covertly or overtly overthrowing every ruler that didn't favor generous trade with christian nations?

Did they prop up the regimes of murderous despots within christian countries?

Did they create a system of world government which places the majority of the power within muslim nations, giving those muslim nations effortless power to overrule anything the christian nations propose?

----------


## Demigod

> Did they interfere with the governments of christian nations for hundreds of years, covertly or overtly overthrowing every ruler that didn't favor generous trade with christian nations?
> 
> Did they prop up the regimes of murderous despots within christian countries?
> 
> Did they create a system of world government which places the majority of the power within muslim nations, giving those muslim nations effortless power to overrule anything the christian nations propose?


YES

YES

YES

----------


## TheCount

> YES
> 
> YES
> 
> YES


Is it opposite day?

----------


## TER

> I have not offered any apology here. I think people like you, who make sweeping accusations against others are hypocritical when they put blinders on to the history of the "Christian" church. Why should you be entitled to distance yourself from others who abuse the Christian title but other faiths are not given the same respect?


I am not putting blinders on, rather it is you.  Have I made a defense of indiscriminate drone bombing?  Have I shown support for 'Christian' Crusaders who kill in the supposed name of God?  What things am I ignoring which makes me a hypocrit?  Since you make sweeping accusations against me ('and people like me'), please tell me what I have said which gives you the impression that I support atrocities done by supposed 'Christians'?

Indeed, I welcome the Muslim who distances themself from such heinous acts.  How much I would welcome them to distance themselves completely from Muhammed and following their fellow believers headlong into perdition! I welcome the Muslim who denounces these jihadists and say these are evil terrorists who do this not in the name of Islam.  Bravo!  Moderate Islamists may be heretics in the eyes of the fundamentalists, but at least they dont look to burn down my church or crucify my children!  

But the reality which you seem to ignore is that this form of violent jihad is exactly what Islam teaches.  It is what their law dictates.  It is the example of their Prophet and the crusade to subjugate all peoples and all nations under the banner of Islam.  

 The Christian fundamentalist (that is the TRUE CHRISTIAN fundamentalist) (again, we have a different definition apparently of Christian) denounces cold-blooded murder in all forms and against all people.  It is a sin to kill any person, even in self-defense, according to fundamentalist Christianity.  The Islamic fundamentalist however cannot denounce such acts because it is the very fundamental teachings of its founder and the religion itself.  It is not a sin to kill the infidel but a blessing and honor and ticket to paradise!  Or have you put on blinders and not understood this?

----------


## TER

> Uhh, genocide of native Americans, slavery, two world wars, tons of nationalist wars, and constant bombing of the middle east, killing millions for the past two decades?  Or did you mean the napalming of Vietnam?


Yes, evil men have done evil things in the suppossed name of what is right.

The difference you seem to not understand is that when the person who does this is a Christian, they are indeed a Christian in name only and do not follow Jesus Christ.  But when a person does this who is a Muslim, they in fact are doing exactly what their leader and founder of their religion has admonished.

----------


## TheCount

> The difference you seem to not understand is that when the person who does this is a Christian, they are indeed a Christian in name only and do not follow Jesus Christ.  But when a person does this who is a Muslim, they in fact are doing exactly what their leader and founder of their religion has admonished.


In the entire history of christianity, do you think there have been more 'in name only' or actual?

----------


## TER

> In the entire history of christianity, do you think there have been more 'in name only' or actual?


Quantitatively?  I would say 'in name only'.

----------


## TheCount

> Quantitatively?  I would say 'in name only'.


Then it doesn't matter what Jesus did or did not say and teach.  What christians actually, in reality, did (and do) is what UWDude and I listed.

----------


## TER

> Then it doesn't matter what Jesus did or did not say and teach.  What christians actually, in reality, do is what UWDude and I listed.


If you are going to attribute evil acts to be done by Christians, then we should have an understanding of what a Christian is, no? 

Islam teaches jihad and the establishment of the world under Sharia.  Does Christianity teach that?

Islam teaches to kill the infidel and subjugate the infidels.  Does Christianity teach that?

----------


## mrsat_98

> Killing people is $#@!ty no matter what cult you belong to.


No doubt.




> Uhh, genocide of native Americans, slavery, two world wars, tons of nationalist wars, and constant bombing of the middle east, killing millions for the past two decades?  Or did you mean the napalming of Vietnam?






> Then it doesn't matter what Jesus did or did not say and teach.  What christians actually, in reality, did (and do) is what UWDude and I listed.


Wut Da Fuq ? who said the animals that did all the things UWDude mentioned where Christians ?

----------


## osan

> But wait.. I thought France was anti-gun O_O... where did the these criminal mass murderers get their guns from?


Holder, in "Operation Fast And Furious Allah"

Muhammed jihad!

----------


## Demigod

> Is it opposite day?


No it is the century of the uneducated populists .You could not even understand the amount of sacrifices it took by the Russians and the Cossacks to beat back the Turkish Muslims in Eastern Europe,how much sacrifice and blood it took to push them back from the Balkans ,or how much blood it took to push them out from Spain.




> Did they interfere with the governments of christian nations for hundreds of years, covertly or overtly overthrowing every ruler that didn't favor generous trade with christian nations?


Do you know what the Ottomans did in Eastern Europe for hundreds of years ,they would take the sons of the local nobility as hostages and educate them in Carigrad then use them whenever they needed someone overthrown.




> Did they prop up the regimes of murderous despots within christian countries?


Are you even aware of how brutal the Muslims were in all of southern and Eastern Europe.In the East the Tatars would go on "harvests" taking slaves of entire cities ,the same being done in the Mediterranean by Berber pirates.Are you aware of Vlad Tepesh or Vlad the Impaler ,his father after being overthrown was given back his throne by the Ottoman empire and in return his sons taken away as hostages,Vlad was sent back to rule his rebellious country because he was famous for his brutality, of course in the end he switched sides and used his skills against the Turks.In the initial attacks in Europe the Turks almost always relied on the feuds between the local christians rulers so to get them to fight between each other before taking over.




> Did they create a system of world government which places the majority of the power within muslim nations, giving those muslim nations effortless power to overrule anything the christian nations propose?


Just because they did not completely succeed  does not mean that they were not trying.After they conquered Carigrad they took  complete control over the trade between the east and west.With the money and influence that bought them they would finance their campaign of terror from Spain to China for hundreds of years.

----------


## osan

> I keep wondering when the terrorist are going to get some real balls and go after the real elite?


The $64, rep-worthy question.

Why were the Towers attacked, instead of the 12 Federal Reserve banks?  The Capitol?  The VATICAN?

The list of worthy targets is substantial, yet "they" put hardware on a couple of office buildings whose truer value was not particularly high.

Why would anyone presumably smart enough to pull off the 9/11 attack be so bottomlessly careless in the choice of targets?

There's that smell again...

----------


## osan

> highlighted unintended consequences of *western* imperialism.


Am I to take it that other forms of imperialism do not suffer the same consequences?

----------


## osan

> just like how they quickly captured the Boston brothers, too easy = staged.


This is certainly something for which to keep an eye out.

----------


## Acala

> Wait a minute, two brothers carry out a professional hit, with deadly precision, killing twelve, and get away from the entire French Dragnet, IN FRANCE... 
> ..and one of them leaves behind his identity card?


Just lucky, I guess.  I'm sure it isn't a red herring so let's follow it!!!

----------


## jonhowe

> Wut Da Fuq ? who said the animals that did all the things UWDude mentioned where Christians ?


They did.





> If you are going to attribute evil acts to be done by Christians, then we should have an understanding of what a Christian is, no? 
> 
> Islam teaches jihad and the establishment of the world under Sharia.  Does Christianity teach that?
> 
> Islam teaches to kill the infidel and subjugate the infidels.  Does Christianity teach that?


I've heard it argued that the old testament is to be taken as a parable, and that the ethnic cleansing that happens in places like Jericho is justification for similar acts today. Just as the Koran teaches polar opposite things (Kill vs Don't Kill) depending on how you read it.

Most readers of the bible may not read it that way, but the old testament DOES celebrate genocide and war crimes.





> Yes, evil men have done evil things in the suppossed name of what is right.
> 
> The difference you seem to not understand is that when the person who does this is a Christian, they are indeed a Christian in name only and do not follow Jesus Christ.  But when a person does this who is a Muslim, they in fact are doing exactly what their leader and founder of their religion has admonished.


That depends on how you read your bible. There's a whole lot of genocide and massacre of 'the other' in the bible I read... Just like there's passages in the Koran the strictly FORBID killing people of other faiths. Curious how books written by stone age and medieval cult members sometimes contradict themselves...





> Oh by the way, let us not forget France's Burqa ban, and banning of religious symbols at school.
> Not champions of free speech.  Hypocrisy.


The French government is NOT a champion of speech. They even brought Charlie Hebdo to court for hate speech!  CH, however, WAS a bastion of free speech.

----------


## ghengis86

> Just lucky, I guess.  I'm sure it isn't a red herring so let's follow it!!!


What, no prestine passport?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) | Twitter*

----------


## Wooden Indian

This thread took a turn early on. I hope a lot of nonmembers that are new or only "looking" into the Liberty movement don't see this mess. Jeesh.

If I call my self a Libertarian, then go out and bomb some innocent people, does that make Libertarians bad? No? Well, let's up the ante.
How about I call myself a Libertarian, convince 25 people to follow me in my identity under Libertarianism, and we go out and bomb innocents, is then Libertariansim bad? Maybe 50 people, 100, 1000? No. Because I would be a false prophet of Liberty, hiding under its guise.

Religion is often used as a mask when commiting acts of violence. And you're all right, Christianity is far from exempt from that. It was co-opted long, long ago, first by a man named Constantine and still is today by men like Santorum. They waive the Christian banner while ignoring the teachings of peace by Jesus.

Now, I haven't studied the Koran and only know passages of war and death pasted on the internet, yet I know those are often taken out of context, and used to attack Christianity from the Old Testament. So, I'm not going to pretend that I know if Islam has been co-opted or not. All, I can say is we need to place blame where it lies, not on Religion, but those that would use religion to do harm to others.

Religion don't shoot people... people shoot people.

----------


## jmdrake

> If you are going to attribute evil acts to be done by Christians, then we should have an understanding of what a Christian is, no? 
> 
> Islam teaches jihad and the establishment of the world under Sharia.  Does Christianity teach that?
> 
> Islam teaches to kill the infidel and subjugate the infidels.  Does Christianity teach that?


Judaism taught that.  In fact it was worse.  The only reason the Gibonites were allowed to be slaves instead of being killed is because they lied to Joshua.  Many Christians breeze through those Old Testament stories without batting an eye or ever taking the time to compare and contrast them to the teachings of Christ.  As a result, Christians grow up with a spiritual split personality that on the one hand can sing "Joshua fought the battle of Jericho" and "Jesus love the little children, all the children of the world" and never see the contradiction.  That said, I personally believe that this was do to the perversion of the original covenant when the Hebrews told Moses, right after God spoke the 10 commandments, *Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.* (Exodus 20:19).  The Hebrew nation became violent after they rejected direct communication with God.  (In fact the golden calf incident was shortly after that.)  Jesus came and brought the New Covenant which was really the resurrection of the original covenant.

----------


## TER

> This thread took a turn early on. I hope a lot of nonmembers that are new or only "looking" into the Liberty movement don't see this mess. Jeesh.
> 
> If I call my self a Libertarian, then go out and bomb some innocent people, does that make Libertarians bad? No? Well, let's up the ante.
> How about I call myself a Libertarian, convince 25 people to follow me in my identity under Libertarianism, and we go out and bomb innocents, is then Libertariansim bad? Maybe 50 people, 100, 1000? No. Because I would be a false prophet of Liberty, hiding under its guise.
> 
> Religion is often used as a mask when commiting acts of violence. And you're all right, Christianity is far from exempt from that. It was co-opted long, long ago, first by a man named Constantine and still is today by men like Santorum. They waive the Christian banner while ignoring the teachings of peace by Jesus.
> 
> Now, I haven't studied the Koran and only know passages of war and death pasted on the internet, yet I know those are often taken out of context, and used to attack Christianity from the Old Testament. So, I'm not going to pretend that I know if Islam has been co-opted or not. All, I can say is we need to place blame where it lies, not on Religion, but those that would use religion to do harm to others.
> 
> Religion don't shoot people... people shoot people.


The Koran is a major source for these atrocities, because in it it gives justification and orders for the adherents of Muhammed to do these things.  ISIS is not fanatical.  They are not terrible Muslims.  They are the authentic and true followers of Muhammed and Islam.  They are the apostles of Islam and not doing anything different then what other devout and law abiding Muslims have done to infidels for centuries.  

ISIS is not co-opted Islam, it is the fundamental and devout following of the teachings of Muhammed.

----------


## jmdrake

Side note.  I was listening to a talk show host the other day complaining about the fact that, according to the air force, their aren't enough drone pilots and citing the attack in France as why we need more.  So we're planning to drone France now?  In a way it makes sense.  We're technically not at war with Pakistan or Yemen, but we drone them and kill innocent people (we call them "collateral damage") just so that we can maybe kill some terrorists.  So.....why not drone France?  Clearly there are terrorists in France.  If we carpet bomb France we will obviously kill some terrorists.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Lays it all out
http://journal-neo.org/2015/01/08/pa...-war-in-syria/



> *Paris Shooters Just Returned from NATO’s Proxy War in Syria*
> 
>                                             Column: Politics 
>                               Region: Europe 
> 
> In an all too familiar pattern and as predicted,  the shooters involved in the attack in Paris Wednesday, January 7,  2015, were French citizens, radicalized in Europe and exported to Syria  to fight in NATO’s proxy war against the government in Damascus, then  brought back where they have now carried out a domestic attack.  Additionally, as have been many other domestic attacks, the suspects  were long under the watch of Western intelligence services, with at  least one suspect having already been arrested on terrorism charges. USA Today would report in an article titled, “Manhunt continues for two French terror suspects,” that: _The suspects are two brothers — Said,  34, and Cherif Kouachi, 32, both French nationals — and Hamyd Mourad,  18, whose nationality wasn’t known, a Paris police official told the  Associated Press. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not  authorized to speak publicly._USA Today would also report (emphasis added): _The brothers were born in Paris of Algerian descent. Cherif was sentenced to three years in prison on terrorism charges in May 2008. Both brothers returned from Syria this summer.
> 
> _ The implications of yet another case of  Western-radicalized terrorists, first exported to fight NATO’s proxy war  in Syria, then imported and well-known to Western intelligence  agencies, being able to carry out a highly organized, well-executed  attack, is that the attack itself was sanctioned and engineered by  Western intelligence agencies themselves,. This mirrors almost verbatim  the type of operations NATO intelligence carried out during the Cold War  with similar networks of radicalized militants used both as foreign  mercenaries and domestic provocateurs. Toward the end of the Cold War,  one of these militant groups was literally Al Qaeda – a proxy mercenary  front armed, funded, and employed by the West to this very day. Additionally, in all likelihood, the  brothers who took part in the attack in Paris may have been fighting in  Syria with weapons provided to them by the French government itself.   France 24 would report last year in an article titled, “France delivered arms to Syrian rebels, Hollande confirms,”* that:* _
> President Francois Hollande said on  Thursday that France had delivered weapons to rebels battling the Syrian government of Bashar al-Assad “a few months ago.”_ 
> ...


*The Role of NATO and the EU on Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard*

*Meet Obama’s Foreign Policy Brain: Zbigniew Brzezinski                                                                         *

----------


## jmdrake

> The Koran is a major source for these atrocities, because in it it gives justification and orders for the adherents of Muhammed to do these things.  ISIS is not fanatical.  They are not terrible Muslims.  They are the authentic and true followers of Muhammed and Islam.  They are the apostles of Islam and not doing anything different then what other devout and law abiding Muslims have done to infidels for centuries.  
> 
> ISIS is not co-opted Islam, it is the fundamental and devout following of the teachings of Muhammed.


Right.  Because only Muslims are terrorists.





Who actually hijacked Islam.




And if the Koran was sufficient to create radical jihadists on its own, then why did the CIA write and send jihadists textbooks to Afghan schoolchildren?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-by-the-u-s/

----------


## TER

Jmdrake, I never say there aren't other terrorists.  I am not sure how you got that.  What I am saying is that ISIS are true followers of Muhammed while 'Christians' who do the same atrocities are in no way followers of Jesus Christ.

----------


## jmdrake

> Jmdrake, I never say there aren't other terrorists.  I am not sure how you got that.  What I am saying is that ISIS are true followers of Muhammed while 'Christians' who do the same atrocities are in no way followers of Jesus Christ.


Except kill all the women and children isn't in the Koran.  It is in Joshua and 1 Samuel though.  I agree that Jesus didn't teach murder.  But those who would like to murder or torture or do all sorts of crazy stuff simply go beyond the teaches of Jesus and say "Show me a verse where Jesus said you can't roast someone's genitals if you're doing it for a good cause."  Really, we never even came to consensus here at RPF if torture was anti Christian.

----------


## jmdrake

> Lays it all out
> http://journal-neo.org/2015/01/08/pa...-war-in-syria/
> 
> 
> *The Role of NATO and the EU on Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard*
> 
> *Meet Obama’s Foreign Policy Brain: Zbigniew Brzezinski                                                                         *


Yep.  +rep.

----------


## Demigod

> Except kill all the women and children isn't in the Koran.  It is in Joshua and 1 Samuel though.  I agree that Jesus didn't teach murder.  But those who would like to murder or torture or do all sorts of crazy stuff simply go beyond the teaches of Jesus and say "Show me a verse where Jesus said you can't roast someone's genitals if you're doing it for a good cause."  Really, we never even came to consensus here at RPF if torture was anti Christian.


The difference is that Jesus was never into empire building,leading armies,raiding parties ,creating law institutions.Mohammed on the other hand was.The Mohammed equivalent in Christianity would be Constantine with the difference that Constantine created a church which  can be easily reformed because it is considered an institution made by man,Mohammed made a separate religion where he merged religion with state so he can rule.

All three middle eastern religions ( Judaism,Christianity,Islam ) are a complete joke but Islam is the biggest one of them.That is why it carries so harsh punishments for having any doubt and precisely claims that there will be no other prophet after Mohammed.The religion has so many holes in it that making it as far as it has is a miracle.

----------


## TER

> Except kill all the women and children isn't in the Koran.  It is in Joshua and 1 Samuel though.  I agree that Jesus didn't teach murder.  But those who would like to murder or torture or do all sorts of crazy stuff simply go beyond the teaches of Jesus and say "Show me a verse where Jesus said you can't roast someone's genitals if you're doing it for a good cause."  Really, we never even came to consensus here at RPF if torture was anti Christian.


Jmdrake, I am a follower of Jesus Christ in the year 2015 as you are.  I am commanded to love my enemy and pray for them and do good to those who persecute me.  The ISIS jihadists are followers of Muhammed in the year 2015, and they give a very good example of how Islam was spread from its inception and why at the turn of the eighth century 96% of the Middle Eastern population was Christian and today is down to 6%.

----------


## jmdrake

> One key fact you are omitting. Christianity experienced a major reformation. Islam hasn't even crossed that bridge yet, which explains why silly incidents like this occur over the alleged defacing of an image. That's where the problems lie.


You realize that there are various sects of Christianity and the sect of Christianity that the reformation railed against survived pretty much in tact except for a lack of overt state power?  Islamic countries were being reformed until the U.S. decided to make Islamic jihad a foreign policy objective.

----------


## Wooden Indian

> The Koran is a major source for these atrocities, because in it it gives justification and orders for the adherents of Muhammed to do these things.  ISIS is not fanatical.  They are not terrible Muslims.  They are the authentic and true followers of Muhammed and Islam.  They are the apostles of Islam and not doing anything different then what other devout and law abiding Muslims have done to infidels for centuries.  
> 
> ISIS is not co-opted Islam, it is the fundamental and devout following of the teachings of Muhammed.


Like I said, I can only speak for Christianity as I have never read the Koran, but I have heard exactly what you posted from other people in the past. Not calling you a liar, I just subscribe to something my grandmother told my momma, and she passed down to me- "Believe nothing that you hear, and only half of what you see".

But yeah, on Christianity, blaming the religion for the acts of those that used it to kill and oppress... well, it's as silly as blaming guns or swords for the killing of the same people.

----------


## jmdrake

> Jmdrake, I am a follower of Jesus Christ in the year 2015 as you are.  I am commanded to love my enemy and pray for them and do good to those who persecute me.  The ISIS jihadists are followers of Muhammed in the year 2015, and they give a very good example of how Islam was spread from its inception and why at the turn of the eighth century 96% of the Middle Eastern population was Christian and today is down to 6%.


You missed my point.  ISIS kills women and children.  That's not in the Koran.  So you can't say ISIS is following the Koran.  A Christian who commits genocide can say he is following the Bible even if he isn't following the teachings of Jesus.  And how many Christian churches have repudiated violence?  The Quakers have and continue to do so.  The Adventist church used to but not anymore.  The Catholic church never did.  Has the Orthodox church taken an antiwar stance?  I'm asking because I honestly don't know.

----------


## DFF

Europe as a whole needs to do a total 180 with it's immigration policy and stop letting everyone under the sun immigrate there. Anyone coming from $#@!ed up countries shouldn't be allowed in. 

That would be my policy because the condition of the immigrants country of origin oftentimes gives you a pretty good idea of how they will conduct themselves in their new country. 

If they're sleeping next to a rocket launcher in Damascus, there's no reason to think they'll be any different when they move, because wherever you go, there you are.

----------


## AuH20

> The Koran is a major source for these atrocities, because in it it gives justification and orders for the adherents of Muhammed to do these things.  ISIS is not fanatical.  They are not terrible Muslims.  They are the authentic and true followers of Muhammed and Islam.  They are the apostles of Islam and not doing anything different then what other devout and law abiding Muslims have done to infidels for centuries.  
> 
> ISIS is not co-opted Islam, it is the fundamental and devout following of the teachings of Muhammed.


That's the dirty little secret that has been hidden from the public. The clear understanding of Islam in the Arab world is about submission as opposed to peace. With that said, I don't think think my tax dollars should be wasted to deal with this historical problem. They aren't a chief threat ATM.

----------


## AuH20

> The difference is that Jesus was never into empire building,leading armies,raiding parties ,creating law institutions.Mohammed on the other hand was.The Mohammed equivalent in Christianity would be Constantine with the difference that Constantine created a church which  can be easily reformed because it is considered an institution made by man,*Mohammed made a separate religion where he merged religion with state so he can rule.*
> 
> All three middle eastern religions ( Judaism,Christianity,Islam ) are a complete joke but Islam is the biggest one of them.That is why it carries so harsh punishments for having any doubt and precisely claims that there will be no other prophet after Mohammed.The religion has so many holes in it that making it as far as it has is a miracle.


Islam is basically an imperial religion when you look at it closely. The Quran has stern words for Muslims who would be slow and reluctant to attack unbelievers: *"Believers, why is it that when you are told: ‘March in the cause of God,’ you linger slothfully in the land? Are you content with this life in preference to the life to come? . . . If you do not go to war, he [God] will punish you sternly, and will replace you by other men" (Surah 9:38-39)*. If war is the health of the state, then the Quran is the ultimate manual.

----------


## jonhowe

> Europe as a whole needs to do a total 180 with it's immigration policy and stop letting everyone under the sun immigrate there. Anyone coming from $#@!ed up countries shouldn't be allowed in. 
> 
> That would be my policy because the condition of the immigrants country of origin oftentimes gives you a pretty good idea of how they will conduct themselves in their new country. 
> 
> If they're sleeping next to a rocket launcher in Damascus, there's no reason to think they'll be any different when they move, because wherever you go, there you are.


^^I cannot believe I'm reading this on a RON PAUL forum.

----------


## Ender

> The Koran is a major source for these atrocities, because in it it gives justification and orders for the adherents of Muhammed to do these things.  ISIS is not fanatical.  They are not terrible Muslims.  They are the authentic and true followers of Muhammed and Islam.  They are the apostles of Islam and not doing anything different then what other devout and law abiding Muslims have done to infidels for centuries.  
> 
> ISIS is not co-opted Islam, it is the fundamental and devout following of the teachings of Muhammed.


The OT is much more violent than the Koran- have studied both extensively.

ISIS is a US invention- was formed and supported by the west- as is Al Qaeda.

And- the original meaning of jihad in the Koran was about a personal war with one's self- one that lead to spirituality and had nothing to do with others. It has become a rallying cry for the few- not the many.

----------


## moostraks

> Jmdrake, I am a follower of Jesus Christ in the year 2015 as you are.  I am commanded to love my enemy and pray for them and do good to those who persecute me.  The ISIS jihadists are followers of Muhammed in the year 2015, and they give a very good example of how Islam was spread from its inception and why at the turn of the eighth century 96% of the Middle Eastern population was Christian and today is down to 6%.


Spread like this:



> Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia (1431-1476; r. 1456-1462, also 1476), became a Romanian national hero for his defense of the Orthodox Christian faith against the Turk. He fought for Hungarian King Matthias Corvinus against Sultan Mehmet II ("the Conqueror").
> He is also known as Vlad Ţepeş ("the Impaler") for his infliction of certain bodily mortifications against his enemies; as well as Vlad Drăculea ("Son of the Dragon") after his father Vlad II Dracul, a member of the Order of the Dragon (established in commemoration of the 1389 Battle of Kosovo)...
> 
> In a rare example of interfaith cooperation, he fought under the blessing of both Catholic and Orthodox churches. He founded some fifty churches and monasteries in Moldavia. [3


http://orthodoxwiki.org/Vlad_the_Impaler

???

----------


## AuH20

This is an excellent primer on the historical underpinnings of this struggle. With that said, in recent years the West did hijack elements of this death cult to achieve certain geopolitical goals. That is pretty much fact, but this revelation does not excuse the core doctrine that the religion was founded upon.

----------


## moostraks

> I am not putting blinders on, rather it is you.  Have I made a defense of indiscriminate drone bombing?  Have I shown support for 'Christian' Crusaders who kill in the supposed name of God?  What things am I ignoring which makes me a hypocrit?  Since you make sweeping accusations against me ('and people like me'), please tell me what I have said which gives you the impression that I support atrocities done by supposed 'Christians'?
> 
> Indeed, I welcome the Muslim who distances themself from such heinous acts.  How much I would welcome them to distance themselves completely from Muhammed and following their fellow believers headlong into perdition! I welcome the Muslim who denounces these jihadists and say these are evil terrorists who do this not in the name of Islam.  Bravo!  Moderate Islamists may be heretics in the eyes of the fundamentalists, but at least they dont look to burn down my church or crucify my children!  
> 
> But the reality which you seem to ignore is that this form of violent jihad is exactly what Islam teaches.  It is what their law dictates.  It is the example of their Prophet and the crusade to subjugate all peoples and all nations under the banner of Islam.  
> 
>  The Christian fundamentalist (that is the TRUE CHRISTIAN fundamentalist) (again, we have a different definition apparently of Christian) denounces cold-blooded murder in all forms and against all people.  It is a sin to kill any person, even in self-defense, according to fundamentalist Christianity.  The Islamic fundamentalist however cannot denounce such acts because it is the very fundamental teachings of its founder and the religion itself.  It is not a sin to kill the infidel but a blessing and honor and ticket to paradise!  Or have you put on blinders and not understood this?


lol! You see the mote in the eye of others whilst ignoring the hypocrisy of such a flattering position you perceive for your own church. Do a bit of unbiased research instead of living with blinders on to the history which is out there. The EOC has not been without its own failings having utilized violent methods for promotion of their beliefs. The RCC, which the EOC acknowledges as part of the "historic" churches is a wealth of material for research on spreading the "faith" through atrocious methods and obliterating the savages who oppose their particular flavor of Christianity. Yep, you are right, we don't have the same definition for Christian. Yours has been to push for the EOC here and the historic church position while I have argued that it is a matter of conscience and relationship with the Creator regardless of specific religious affiliation.

If I were to look to someone for legitimate information on various beliefs it is best to go to someone who lives the faith and not someone seeking to add members to their own church at all costs. You have shown your own veracity when it comes to describing my beliefs which you feel ever so entitled to ascribe to me, ignorantly and incorrectly. I would discourage others from taking your opinion seriously after my experiences with you.

----------


## Demigod

> Spread like this:
> http://orthodoxwiki.org/Vlad_the_Impaler
> 
> ???


From a complete non-religious side Vlad was a great leader,if only there were more like him the region would not have been under Ottoman occupation for hundreds of years.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> I'm curious about this too.  I have a feeling, if  they liked to lampoon Islam often, (very easy target, especially in  France) they probably had no problem with the wars in the middle East,  and posted articles and cartoons supporting murder in the middle East  often, much like the dead drunken bloviating idiot Chirstopher  Hitchens.


Let's wait till all the facts are known.





> They aren't killing in the name of their religion.


Any time an innocent is killed, do they care in what name their  killing occured?

 I doubt guilt of deliberate killer of any innocent will  increase/decrease based on the cause used.






> The french are so much about free speech except when it comes to holocaust denial. Sorry, the French are the worst people when it comes to destruction of other countries. They go in and sponsor the worst and most radical elements supporting a revolution. I dunno why but I find it hard to believe just like the Pakistani school shooting that they "radicals" did this when the radicals work hand in hand with these governments. The fighters doing all the heavy lifting in places like Syria and Iraq are being helped by the likes of France. 
> 
> And if it turns out to be a real attack, then I put a higher blame on the govt than the people who actually did this. You work with radical islamic fighter, fighters so extreme that regular muslims are afraid of them to your house and then are surprised when they act out of line. 
> 
> I will just wait to see the kind of "reform" and "remedy" offered by the french govt to see if they desired this incident in the first place. $#@!ing $#@!s (both the french govt and the extremists)


Interesting points. 
Did quick search after reading  first sentence, freedom of speech in France/EU is selective or intermittent:

*Holocaust denier gets 3 years in prison - NBC News*
Feb 20, 2006 - Right-wing  British historian David Irving pleaded guilty  Monday to charges of  denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three  years in prison

*Toben's Arrest: A New Assault Against Free Speech*
October 15, 2008
http://www.ihr.org/other/oct08toben.html

*Alleged Holocaust denier held at Heathrow*
The Guardian
Oct 1, 2008 - An Australian teacher accused of denying the Holocaust was arrested in transit through Heathrow yesterday

*Poll: Do  France/EU  have freedom of speech?*

----------


## jmdrake

> The difference is that Jesus was never into empire building,leading armies,raiding parties ,creating law institutions.Mohammed on the other hand was.The Mohammed equivalent in Christianity would be Constantine with the difference that Constantine created a church which  can be easily reformed because it is considered an institution made by man,Mohammed made a separate religion where he merged religion with state so he can rule.
> 
> All three middle eastern religions ( Judaism,Christianity,Islam ) are a complete joke but Islam is the biggest one of them.That is why it carries so harsh punishments for having any doubt and precisely claims that there will be no other prophet after Mohammed.The religion has so many holes in it that making it as far as it has is a miracle.


I didn't say Jesus.  I said Joshua.  (Yes I know they share similar names, but I'm talking about in the Old Testament).  Modern Christians will on the one hand say "Jesus wasn't violent" when attacking other religions, then turn around and say "Well David killed people" when needing an excuse for war.  And the "Well sure, the church did some bad things, but Christianity is an individual religion" argument is used when pointing at abuses by Constantine and the Crusades and the Inquisition and others, but then you'll hear from the same people that you aren't fully in Christian fellowship unless you are in communion with XYZ church, and if you look at Christianity from an individual point of view and (gasp) interpret the Bible without the aid of the church (whichever one they belong to) it's because you're not "humble."  Christianity, therefore, suffers from multiple personality disorder. "Jesus loves the little children....Joshua fought the battle of Jericho....Onward Christian soldiers!"  That said, I would take Christianity, Judaism or Islam over Hinduism and various other religions any day of the week.  Few can argue against Christ's teachings....except Christians when they want to do something else.

----------


## jmdrake

> From a complete non-religious side Vlad was a great leader,if only there were more like him the region would not have been under Ottoman occupation for hundreds of years.


That sounds like Louis Farrakhan saying that Adolf Hitler was a great man.  If greatness is measured by success than Hitler was great...until he wasn't.  The Kim dynasty is North Korea is great by that measure as well.  So are the Castro brothers in Cuba.

----------


## Demigod

> That sounds like Louis Farrakhan saying that Adolf Hitler was a great man.  If greatness is measured by success than Hitler was great...until he wasn't.  The Kim dynasty is North Korea is great by that measure as well.  So are the Castro brothers in Cuba.


Vlad was by no means successful he got killed but his actions bought enough time so that the Turks can be stopped .He faced Ottoman colonization/Islamisation on one side and Germanisation by Saxons from the other.In my opinion what he did was correct.He could have been like many of the other nobleman who sold their asses to the Turks but he stood for his people.

Kim and Castro are working against their own people which can hardly be called great work,and Adolf was simply wrong on too many issues so that small part he was right can even be taken into consideration.

----------


## Peace&Freedom

> This is an excellent primer on the historical underpinnings of this struggle. With that said, in recent years the West did hijack elements of this death cult to achieve certain geopolitical goals. That is pretty much fact, but this revelation does not excuse the core doctrine that the religion was founded upon.


The core doctrine, while accounting for the war incursions and case instances of savagery over the centuries, does not account for the ISIS/Al Qaeda style terrorist violence of the last few decades. Where were the 9-11s, or the empire-building during the last 200 years in Iran, when that very Muslim country failed to launch aggression against any neighbor? Was there a bus bombing in Iraq prior to the 2003 US-led invasion?

Western intelligence and war mongering elements did not merely 'hijack' Islamic aggression, it has been its creator, inflator, funding agent, equipment supplier and master trainer. Without this massive support system and projection apparatus, there would not be even 5% of the violence going on. The entire Muslim faith has been turned into a patsy to support the War and Empire machine, in an ongoing false flag strategy.

----------


## AuH20

> The core doctrine, while accounting for the war incursions and case instances of savagery over the centuries, does not account for the ISIS/Al Qaeda style terrorist violence of the last few decades. Where were the 9-11s, or the empire-building during the last 200 years in Iran, when that very Muslim country failed to launch aggression against any neighbor? Was there a bus bombing in Iraq prior to the 2003 US-led invasion?
> 
> Western intelligence and war mongering elements did not merely 'hijack' Islamic aggression, it has been its creator, inflator, funding agent, equipment supplier and master trainer. *Without this massive support system and projection apparatus, there would not be even 5% of the violence going on. The entire Muslim faith has been turned into a patsy to support the War and Empire machine, in an ongoing false flag strategy.*


I definitely concur with you about the seed monies flowing from Western agencies as well as Saudi Arabia.

----------


## Wooden Indian

I think it would be easier to agree that there are evil people in every sect and walk of life being manipulated by even more evil people for their own gain and amusement. It's a damn shame but it's always been that way and always will be.

Best we can do is not add to it by hopping on one given side blindly; Instead, attack those behind the curtain.

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## jmdrake

FYI.  These are the people who's free speech we are defending.



In case you don't know French the caption reads "The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit".

----------


## Acala

> FYI.  These are the people who's free speech we are defending.
> 
> 
> 
> In case you don't know French the caption reads "The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit".


Popular speech doesn't NEED protection.

----------


## pcosmar

> From a complete non-religious side Vlad was a great leader,if only there were more like him the region would not have been under Ottoman occupation for hundreds of years.


???
He was a  MADMAN,, Bloodthirsty and cruel. He is regarded as a hero in that area.. but was one of the sickest,, most evil rulers that has walk the planet.
And his family was the same. 

I have no idea what his "old" religion was. before he adopted "christianity". but history is clear,, there was nothing Christ like about him. or of the Order of the Dragon for that matter..

----------


## jmdrake

> Popular speech doesn't NEED protection.


The original intent of the 1st amendment was to protect political speech, not asinine speech.  Of course this is France so the 1st amendment doesn't apply at all.  And sure, they have a right to do what they do.  That said, a few of my tears dried up after seeing that.

----------


## Acala

> The original intent of the 1st amendment was to protect political speech, not asinine speech.  Of course this is France so the 1st amendment doesn't apply at all.  And sure, they have a right to do what they do.  That said, a few of my tears dried up after seeing that.


I wasn't talking about the First Amendment.  Because, of course, as you point out, the First Amendment doesn't apply in France.  But it also doesn't apply to the private actions of terrorists even in the USA.  It only applies to government action.  

I agree with you that asinine is a pretty apt description of this material.  It seems calculated to do nothing BUT inflame for the sake of inflammation.  That makes it pretty brain-dead.

----------


## wizardwatson

> FYI.  These are the people who's free speech we are defending.
> 
> [img][/img]
> 
> In case you don't know French the caption reads "The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit".


On a sidenote, I think this is the first occurrence I've ever seen or heard of someone blaspheming the holy spirit.  Sodomizing Jesus no less.

----------


## DFF

> ^^I cannot believe I'm reading this on a RON PAUL forum.


If an immigrant is an Islamic fundamentalist at home, they're still going to be an Islamic fundamentalist in France or Germany the UK or here in the USA. 
Relocating to another country won't change their belief system, which is to impose sharia law on the entire world by any means necessary. 
So the logical solution is to keep these fundamentalist psychos in the Middle East. Don't let them into Europe and don't let them in the USA.
As far as the ones that are already here, if they're not yet a citizen and are convicted of any upper level crime (robbery, rape, assault and so on) immediately deport them and then ban them from ever returning. 

Or you know, continue onwards with the kid gloves approach...keep watching cartoonists get blown to smithereens, mosques being put up on every corner and swedish women being gang raped. Hey, we'll have all those great restaurants though, right?

----------


## AuH20

> If an immigrant is an Islamic fundamentalist at home, they're still going to be an Islamic fundamentalist in France or Germany the UK or here in the USA. 
> Relocating to another country won't change their belief system, which is to impose sharia law on the entire world by any means necessary. 
> *So the logical solution is to keep these fundamentalist psychos in the Middle East. Don't let them into Europe and don't let them in the USA.
> *As far as the ones that are already here, if they're not yet a citizen and are convicted of any upper level crime (robbery, rape, assault and so on) immediately deport them and then ban them from ever returning. 
> 
> Or you know, continue onwards with the kid gloves approach...keep watching cartoonists get blown to smithereens, mosques being put up on every corner and swedish women being gang raped. Hey, we'll have all those great restaurants though, right?


I don't have a problem with the individual but rather the mob. I think you need to differentiate between the two. Too many from one location is dangerous due to cultural predispositions. I would agree there as would Thomas Jefferson who wrote extensively about this phenomenon.

----------


## PRB

> FYI.  These are the people who's free speech we are defending.
> 
> 
> 
> In case you don't know French the caption reads "The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit".


I don't need to like what they say to defend their right to say it.

----------


## PRB

> The original intent of the 1st amendment was to protect political speech, not asinine speech.  Of course this is France so the 1st amendment doesn't apply at all.  And sure, they have a right to do what they do.  That said, a few of my tears dried up after seeing that.


LOL. They should've said "exceptions include asinine speech that doesn't further political discourse".

----------


## Demigod

> ???
> He was a  MADMAN,, Bloodthirsty and cruel. He is regarded as a hero in that area.. but was one of the sickest,, most evil rulers that has walk the planet.
> And his family was the same. 
> 
> I have no idea what his "old" religion was. before he adopted "christianity". but history is clear,, there was nothing Christ like about him. or of the Order of the Dragon for that matter..


Most of his "legend" was just propaganda written by the Hungarians who wanted him silenced because he made them look bad in the eyes of the pope on one side by fighting and disrupting their peace with the Ottomans on the other.The other part was written by Germans whose influence he curtailed.All other accounts written in the east have no more cruelty in them than what was normal for the period.

He is regarded as a hero because he as a ruler made all people equal before the law ,and he took the fight to the Ottomans to protect his people.His actions would not even put him in the top 10 000 for cruelty.

----------


## AuH20

> Most of his "legend" was just propaganda written by the Hungarians who wanted him silenced because he made them look bad in the eyes of the pope on one side by fighting and disrupting their peace with the Ottomans on the other.The other part was written by Germans whose influence he curtailed.All other accounts written in the east have no more cruelty in them than what was normal for the period.
> 
> He is regarded as a hero because he as a ruler made all people equal before the law ,and he took the fight to the Ottomans to protect his people.His actions would not even put him in the top 10 000 for cruelty.


http://www.bloodsprayer.com/the-pope...ed-and-edited/




> What can be said about Vlad the Impaler? Even in his own lifetime, there was a marked dichotomy in how he was viewed.  In Eastern Europe, he was venerated as a hero and a liberator, almost like a Romanian George Washington.  In Western Europe, Vlad was seen as a blood-maddened sadistic tyrant who burned whole cities to the ground and staked everyone he could get his hands on.  Reports of how many people Vlad put on stakes ranges from 40,000 to 100,000, with some stories reporting an additional 80,000 burned alive.
> 
> The problem is, reports of Vlad’s cruelty were spread throughout the west by his “ally,” King Matthias Corvinus of Hungary in the form of an illustrated pamphlet.  Corvinus’ reasons for spreading such rumors were simple, and as old as politics itself: Corvinus had raised quite a bit of money throughout Europe to fund wars against the Ottomans, and then that money just…disappeared.  And to divert attention from his own jingling pockets, Corvinus raised a shaking finger and said “Look! Look! Vlad’s ramming sharpened wooden spikes up peoples’ asses!” Only, y’know…he probably said it in Latin.  A number of similar propaganda manuscripts against Vlad circulated through Russia and what is now Germany, as early as 1462, in large part written by people Vlad had opposed, who took the opportunity to present the Impaler as sadistic and/or violently insane.
> 
> A lie told enough times becomes the truth, they say, and this is especially true in the study of history, even more so in the history of pre-modern times.  In many cases, there are very few primary source documents to begin with, and what few we have are biased.  Our sole account of Julius Caesar’s conquest of Gaul is his own, and we know of the madness of Caligula strictly from Suetonious’ account in his Lives of the 12 Caesars.  For centuries, Vlad III was known to Western Europe almost solely from anti-Vlad propaganda, which has biased generations of historians against him.





> I’m not writing this to declare Vlad III a saint.  I’m not going to pretend he didn’t kill tens of thousands of people in one of the most gruesome and excruciating ways imaginable.  But I am pointing out that he wasn’t doing it for $#@!s and giggles.  Western Europe was in serious trouble if the Ottoman Empire expanded too far.  By 1453, they’d already swallowed the Byzantine Empire.  If they’d expanded further and been able to take the Holy Roman Empire (which was a bunch of squabbling principalities, incapable of putting up a united front of defense against the organized Turks)…basically all of Europe would have quickly followed, and the Ottoman Empire would have stretched from Spain (which was controlled by North African Muslims, or Moors, at the time and had been for nearly a thousand years) nearly to Mongolia.  Western civilization would have been overwhelmed and replaced by Middle Eastern civilization.
> 
> Vlad III and his 20,000 peasant militiamen, standing between Europe and the Ottoman Empire, allowed the world as we know it today to exist.  If Vlad had been less tenacious, less of a tactician, less willing to descend into the depths of Hell’s own depravity to protect his nation…we might not have had the Italian Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution…and this man is considered one of the most evil to ever live?

----------


## enhanced_deficit

Will NBC be doing hilarious dancing comedic mock of these killings in comedy show tonight?






> 



*#JeSuisAhmed*

----------


## UWDude

> Yes, evil men have done evil things in the suppossed name of what is right.
> 
> The difference you seem to not understand is that when the person who does this is a Christian, they are indeed a Christian in name only and do not follow Jesus Christ.  But when a person does this who is a Muslim, they in fact are doing exactly what their leader and founder of their religion has admonished.


No true scotsman.

----------


## Demigod

> http://www.bloodsprayer.com/the-pope...ed-and-edited/


The Hungarian king spent all the money from the Pope to try to take over the crown of the Holy Roman Empire,that is why he made peace with the Ottomans who at the time were also working together with the French king who wanted to take down Spain and the HRE.

Was Vlad cruel YES,was him impaling 20 000 Turks any more cruel than Basilleus II of the Eastern Roman empire blinding 15 000 soldiers of Samuels army ,leaving only one eye for every 100th soldier,or the Huns taking body parts as they retreated  is a matter of debate.It is just important to remember that it was a time period when Christians in the Balkans would carve crosses in their kids foreheads or cut off their fingers so not to be taken to serve in the Ottoman army.Mass suicides by entire villages were a regular thing especially with women after failed rebellions.

----------


## moostraks

> http://www.bloodsprayer.com/the-pope...ed-and-edited/


Are you posting this in support for the position of how necessary Vlad's behavior was? This is different from the fingers pointed at radical Muslims how? Oh yeah, one is a religion of violence and the other gets to pretend it doesn't have its own atrocities to account for, because they were doing it to save the world from the evil violence of their opposition, all while gruesomely and violently forcing their views upon others.

----------


## UWDude

I think its so funny, in a sad way, how fundamentalist Christians are the most likely to be violent islamaphobes.  (violent, because they never have seen a war or drone bombing they didn't like, and fully support, cuz its killin turists.  I mean it's funny in the way that religion is such a tool of the warmonger.

----------


## jmdrake

> LOL. They should've said "exceptions include asinine speech that doesn't further political discourse".


Maybe they should have considering that the kind of speech deserving the most protection seems to get the least.  What with sermons being scrutinized during the Bush administration by the IRS to see if they were antiwar or sermons being scrutinized now by the lesbian mayor of Houston to see if they are anti gay.  But again, I'm not saying that asinine speech should be free from government interference or that murder for whatever reason shouldn't be punished.  I am saying these particular satirists have just lost some of my sympathy.  The CEO of the Mozilla non profit had to step down over outrage because he donated $1,000 to the California initiative not to recognize same sex marriage, but Christians are blissfully unaware of the hateful screeds leveled at their belief system since they are so focused on the "islamofascists."

----------


## Demigod

> Are you posting this in support for the position of how necessary Vlad's behavior was? This is different from the fingers pointed at radical Muslims how? Oh yeah, one is a religion of violence and the other gets to pretend it doesn't have its own atrocities to account for, because they were doing it to save the world from the evil violence of their opposition, all while gruesomely and violently forcing their views upon others.


WTF

Was Tepesh impaling Arabs in Arabia or Turks in Vlachia who came as invaders.You people have some serious issues.He did not claim he was doing God`s work or that he is a prophet of God ,he was fighting for his people and country.Was he trying to Christianize them or were they trying to Islamise him?

----------


## jllundqu

Heard this from Teller....

Thought experiment for atheists (or anyone really):

If you took all billion-plus muslims in the world and replaced them with a billion christians, would the world be a better place or worse?

----------


## Brett85

Edit...Never mind.

----------


## jmdrake

> I don't need to like what they say to defend their right to say it.


Actually since they are French and they were not attacked by the French government, why do you need to defend their right to do anything?  In fact if they were attacked by the French government that wouldn't be my fight.  So since this boils down to mere expressions of sympathy....mine diminished a tad bit.  Not totally mind you, but a tad bit.

----------


## pcosmar

> WTF
> 
> Was Tepesh impaling Arabs in Arabia or Turks in Vlachia who came as invaders.You people have some serious issues.He did not claim he was doing God`s work or that he is a prophet of God ,he was fighting for his people and country.Was he trying to Christianize them or were they trying to Islamise him?


That was empires. It was not about religion,, It was about empires. The differing religions was incidental. And I will add,, There was nothing Christian about Vlad. Or his whole line. He used the political influence to feed his blood lust.

There was nothing "Christian" about the crusades. Nothing!, from inception to present.

----------


## PRB

> Actually since they are French and they were not attacked by the French government, why do you need to defend their right to do anything?  In fact if they were attacked by the French government that wouldn't be my fight.  So since this boils down to mere expressions of sympathy....mine diminished a tad bit.  Not totally mind you, but a tad bit.


I'd have to agree with you on the point of national borders : France is not my business. 

As for the right, you are correct, since he wasn't attacked by government, his rights are not violated by the government, but he's been attacked without violating another person's right, in other words, he's been violated of his right. (I believe the Constitution of France and US both say that a man has a right to not be killed unless in self defense)

----------


## Southron

Islam is going to eat secular progressive societies alive because the Islamists actually believe in something.

----------


## PRB

> That was empires. It was not about religion,, It was about empires. The differing religions was incidental. And I will add,, There was nothing Christian about Vlad. Or his whole line. He used the political influence to feed his blood lust.
> 
> There was nothing "Christian" about the crusades. Nothing!, from inception to present.


Without the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, where would you be today?
http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/a-world-without-jesus/

----------


## PRB

> Islam is going to eat secular progressive societies alive because the Islamists actually believe in something.


Right, because obviously NWO, neocons, Zionists and Illuminati don't believe in anything.

----------


## devil21

Definitely looks like a Mossad false flag, complete with mountains of media fakery afterward to confuse everyone further and allow creation of an 'official narrative' that demonizes their opponents.  Even knocked the Epstein/Royals pedo stories, which were starting to pick up steam, right off the front page.

----------


## HVACTech

> Heard this from Teller....
> 
> Thought experiment for atheists (or anyone really):
> 
> If you took all billion-plus muslims in the world and replaced them with a billion christians, would the world be a better place or worse?


both predominate monotheistic religions began at about the same time. (1 AD to 600 AD)  soon after that... (800 AD?) the crusades started.

----------


## AuH20

> That was empires. It was not about religion,, It was about empires. The differing religions was incidental. And I will add,, There was nothing Christian about Vlad. Or his whole line. He used the political influence to feed his blood lust.
> 
> *There was nothing "Christian" about the crusades. Nothing!, from inception to present.*


Europe was under attack for 400 years before the Pope started the crusades. So when I hear folks compare the Crusades to this phony WoT I just have to laugh.

----------


## HVACTech

> Islam is going to eat secular progressive societies alive because the Islamists actually believe in something.


well, true though that maybe. I am a Deist.
and I hope my side wins!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Without the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, where would you be today?
> http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/a-world-without-jesus/


I utterly and completely reject the entire notion that Christianity was in any way advanced or enhanced through the Crusades or the Inquisition.  Moreover, the fundamental premise that without them we would be 'a world without Jesus' beyond being irrational and ignorant of history is offensive, and insinuates the claim that God is wicked and goodness does not exist. If anything, the advance of Truth across the human race was set back by 500 years due to the Crusades and the Inquisition.

----------


## HVACTech

> Europe was under attack for 600 years before the Pope started the crusades. So when I hear folks compare the Crusades to this phony WoT I just have to laugh.


600 years before there WAS a Pope?   

(the Muhammad guy did not show up till about 570 AD)

----------


## enhanced_deficit

*France unites behind #JeSuisAhmed* 



> Definitely looks like a Mossad false flag, complete with mountains of media fakery afterward to confuse everyone further and allow creation of an 'official narrative' that demonizes their opponents.


*Int Business Times "Regret Publishing Erroneous Article" that saw Israel behind Mag attack*

----------


## AuH20

> 600 years before there WAS a Pope?


The Crusades were blowback for for what transpired in Constantinople, Spain, Italy and other Eastern Europe locations over a 500 year period. I think a million Christians alone were sold into slavery from Spain. Then in 1095 after numerous requests from the besieged Byzantine Empire, Pope Urban II finally threw the gauntlet down and authorized the incursion into the Middle East. Now there were certainly major missteps that followed the first crusade, but let's not be ignorant to the state of the world at that time.

----------


## TheCount

> Thought experiment for atheists (or anyone really):
> 
> If you took all billion-plus muslims in the world and replaced them with a billion christians, would the world be a better place or worse?


No change.

----------


## HVACTech

> The Crusades were blowback for for what transpired in Constantinople, Spain, Italy and other Eastern Europe locations over a 500 year period. I think a million Christians alone were sold into slavery from Spain. Then in 1095 after numerous requests from the besieged Byzantine Empire, Pope Urban II finally threw the gauntlet down and authorized the incursion into the Middle East.


as near as I can tell, the crusades were the beginning of the 3rd Roman empire.
toady they are known as the "dark" ages..  
they did not end until Gutenberg and others started printing bibles. (1550 or so)  
Napoleon put an end to the 3rd empire. 
(and then they sent us a statue)

----------


## DFF

> If you took all billion-plus muslims in the world and replaced them with a billion christians, would the world be a better place or worse?


Go to Europe then to the Middle East and compare the two, and the answer to this question will then be fairly obvious. 

The differences though aren't really attributable to religion...pawning everything off on Islam is in fact a false argument, which distracts the masses from the real issue.

----------


## AuH20

> as near as I can tell, the crusades were the beginning of the 3rd Roman empire.
> toady they are known as the "dark" ages..  
> they did not end until Gutenberg and others started printing bibles. (1550 or so)  
> Napoleon put an end to the 3rd empire. 
> (and then they sent us a statue)


With the Persian and Byzantine Empires falling around them, the Arabians did what they know best, EXPAND, CONQUER & ENSLAVE. Sounds very familiar to our current power structure? No? Due to the desires of men, power is projected externally in a burgeoning empire.

----------


## HVACTech

> I utterly and completely reject the entire notion that Christianity was in any way advanced or enhanced through the Crusades or the Inquisition.  Moreover, the fundamental premise that without them we would be 'a world without Jesus' beyond being irrational and ignorant of history is offensive, and insinuates the claim that God is wicked and goodness does not exist. If anything, the advance of Truth across the human race was set back by 500 years due to the Crusades and the Inquisition.


I have heard, that when they sacked the Library at Alexandria.... it set us Humans back 3000 years. 
I suppose what really needs to be learned and remembered..

what did Aristotle teach Alexander?

----------


## alucard13mm

Immigration is fine, but you cant be importing thousands of people at a time... you gotta let the immigrants settle down and become part of the host country. If you let a bunch in at the same time, they tend to stick together in their own enclave.

----------


## TheCount

> With the Persian and Byzantine Empires falling around them, the Arabians did what they know best, EXPAND, CONQUER & ENSLAVE. Sounds very familiar to our current power structure? No? Due to the desires of men, power is projected externally in a burgeoning empire.

----------


## AuH20

> 


You're 1200 years ahead with that particular map.

----------


## Uriel999

> as near as I can tell, the crusades were the beginning of the 3rd Roman empire.
> toady they are known as the "dark" ages..  
> they did not end until Gutenberg and others started printing bibles. (1550 or so)  
> Napoleon put an end to the 3rd empire. 
> (and then they sent us a statue)


and it is still a rather nice statue.

----------


## TheCount

> You're 1200 years ahead.


You're not understanding the point.  Both religions build empires.


Islamic leaders just got a head start when they were vastly more advanced than European savages.

----------


## AuH20

> You're not understanding the point. * Both religions build empires.*
> 
> 
> Islamic leaders just got a head start when they were vastly more advanced than European savages.


Undoubtedly. I don't think there is an innocent party in all this but the Crusades were never an offensive campaign. You can reference the Battle of Tours in France and later the Battle of Manzikert that set the stage for the Crusades.

----------


## pcosmar

> You're not understanding the point.  Both religions build empires.


Actually,, the Arab empires existed long before Islam even began. It may have unified the tribes.

And religion has been used as a military motivator by both all sides.

It is why I have little use for "religion".




> For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

----------


## HVACTech

> Undoubtedly. I don't think there is an innocent party in all this but the Crusades were never an offensive campaign. You can reference the Battle of Tours in France and later the Battle of Manzikert that set the stage for the Crusades.


don't feed the trolls.  

both "faiths" popped onto the radar in about the same time frame. (600 years)
as near as I can tell.. they have been dukeing it out ever since.

as a Deist, I assume "God" is WAY smarter than me. 
peace bro.

----------


## PRB

> I utterly and completely reject the entire notion that Christianity was in any way advanced or enhanced through the Crusades or the Inquisition.  Moreover, the fundamental premise that without them we would be 'a world without Jesus' beyond being irrational and ignorant of history is offensive, and insinuates the claim that God is wicked and goodness does not exist. If anything, the advance of Truth across the human race was set back by 500 years due to the Crusades and the Inquisition.


So you believe without Christianity, something else would've motivated Lief Erikson and Columbus to discover the Americas?

If it's true that human advance of truth would advance 500 years faster were it not for Crusades and Inquisition, you'd expect India, China and Africa to be more advance than the west. That just didn't happen.

So whether the west would advance without Christianity is one question, but the question of whether the west set anybody back is simply laughable.

I DO agree with you, that Christianity was not advanced by force, however, what WAS done, was the rest of western culture was spread by force, cultural imperialism always works, and nobody does it like Europeans.

----------


## PRB

> don't feed the trolls.  
> 
> both "faiths" popped onto the radar in about the same time frame. (600 years)
> as near as I can tell.. they have been dukeing it out ever since.
> 
> as a Deist, I assume "God" is WAY smarter than me. 
> peace bro.


600 years is a same time frame? Sorry, but that's longer than the time between you and Columbus, or Columbus and Erikson.

----------


## pcosmar

> both "faiths" popped onto the radar in about the same time frame. (600 years)
> as near as I can tell.. they have been dukeing it out ever since.


You are referring to "christian" being the official state religion of Rome?
The Roman Empire was around when Jesus Christ was Executed by crucifixion.(hundreds of years earlier)

----------


## HVACTech

> 600 years is a same time frame? Sorry, but that's longer than the time between you and Columbus, or Columbus and Erikson.



it was a scaled response Pythagoras.

----------


## HVACTech

> You are referring to "christian" being the official state religion of Rome?
> The Roman Empire was around when Jesus Christ was Executed by crucifixion.(hundreds of years earlier)


no, my ONLY point was the timing.  Jesus "showed" up around 35 BC. Muhammad 570 AD.

I did not have any point to make. other than to note the time frame as a point of reference.
the "crusades" started soon thereafter.

peace.

----------


## UWDude

Watch the French demand Muslim clerics be jailed for "hate speech" in the name of free speech.
Watch the French demand pro Islamic insurgency posts on facebook etc be banned as hate speech, in the name of free speech.
And then rally around their offensive cartoons as the apex of free speech.
Predictable Hypocrites.

----------


## HVACTech

> Watch the French demand Muslim clerics be jailed for "hate speech" in the name of free speech.
> Watch the French demand pro Islamic insurgency posts on facebook etc be banned as hate speech, in the name of free speech.
> And then rally around their offensive cartoons as the apex of free speech.
> Predictable Hypocrites.



and just who was Hippocrates? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates

 

the "New"  testament was translated from Greek.

----------


## UWDude

> and just who was Hippocrates? 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates
> 
>  
> 
> the "New"  testament was translated from Greek.


Different words, different etymology.

----------


## HVACTech

> Different words, different etymology.


I used a word incorrectly..

mesuspects.... 
that is why Lawyers use Latin.

----------


## twomp

France/United States/NATO has killed way more Muslims than Muslims have killed them. More women, more children, more civilians. It's not even close. The only difference is when 12 people get killed by Muslims, it's all over the media and the whole entire world falls for the propaganda and gasps at the barbaric nature of the Muslims. Meanwhile, entire Muslim wedding parties get slaughtered and no one notices. Hypocrites.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Definitely looks like a Mossad false flag, complete with mountains of media fakery afterward to confuse everyone further and allow creation of an 'official narrative' that demonizes their opponents.  Even knocked the Epstein/Royals pedo stories, which were starting to pick up steam, right off the front page.


Yes Indeed, wiped the Pedophilia Playground of the Elites story of the year, right off of page 12 news...

As predicted... al-CIAda



*U.S. Spies See Al Qaeda Fingerprints on Paris Massacre - The Daily Beast*

----------


## jonhowe

> FYI.  These are the people who's free speech we are defending.




Good! This made me laugh!

Oh, I guess it's not funny when they make fun of YOUR gods...


Even if it wasn't funny, even it is especially vulgar, that's the freaking point. Most good ideas offend SOMEONE, and most ideas on this forum would offend a LOT of people. You don't think Obama and his supporters (they still exist) wouldn't try to shut this forum down for being offensive if that was the caveat in the 1st amendment? "Free speech unless someone's offended!"

----------


## PRB

> Good! This made me laugh!
> 
> Oh, I guess it's not funny when they make fun of YOUR gods...
> 
> 
> Even if it wasn't funny, even it is especially vulgar, that's the freaking point. Most good ideas offend SOMEONE, and most ideas on this forum would offend a LOT of people. You don't think Obama and his supporters (they still exist) wouldn't try to shut this forum down for being offensive if that was the caveat in the 1st amendment? "Free speech unless someone's offended!"


While I don't believe any religion is sacred cow or untouchable (or, I'd like to live in a world where that is the case). I can respect people who think that making fun of another's religion is off limits out of respect, if they can consistently hold all religions to the same standard. 

But if one thinks make fun of this religion, not mine, I'll have a problem with him.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

They have them cornered in a warehouse.

the terrorists killed another person, wounded 2 and have a hostage.

they are surrounded.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

The warehouse is a printing company.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

updates:

there was gunfire near a airport, 5km from current location followed by a car jacking and high speed chase.
town of ~8,000 is on lockdown.  conflicting reports on if students sheltering in place or being evacuated.
police now saying no fatality.
at least 2 airliners have been diverted from landing.
police want to take terrorists alive for intel value.
first priority it to try and get hostage(s) released.
~1,000 police in area.
It's raining heavily.
There may be multiple hostages.
Dammartin-en-goele <== town
5km from charles de gualle airport
tons of emergency equip - including ambulances and fire equipment
2 mil helo's

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

charles de gualle airport has shut down 2 runways, but otherwise is operating.
make that 3 mil helo's + paramedic helo.
contact made w/ tango's who expressed desire to die as martyrs.
2 police shot yesterday (one who died) were shot by a different nut w/ a machine gun.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

correction: 1,500 police and security personnel in that town of 8,000
French prez is announcing that they are joining coalition to fight IS because of this incident.
Talk about blowback! 

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Helo's went airborne again and it looks like special forces are mounting up for a GO!

green light.

No - landing again. That was quick.  well, 2 are still up.  hmmm...

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

about a dozen ambulances just pulled up.  That''s not encouraging...

sounds like gunfire in the background.
did they just breach?  suddenly a lot of police next to the building.

all they are saying is they have established contact with the terrorists.

locals instructed to stay away from windows and turn lights off.

lots of sirens now.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Ambulances are on the move, but not at speed.
Tactical team re positioning on foot.

-t

----------


## GunnyFreedom

I've been seeing breaking news stuff flash all over my phone behind this but I hadn't bothered reading them yet. Wow. Crazy stuff.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Now announcing a link between yesterdays attack on 2 police and these 2 terrorists.  They didn't do it, but apparently knew whoever did it. 

hostage is female.

police about to hold a press conference.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Do we have any members online now that understand French?
Do we have any police/mil scanner feeds?

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

At least 7 buses lined up on the highway.  Poss for a evacuation of a school next to the warehouse. This seems to be happening.

"They did not have any indiscriminate attitude to taking out the general population"  This might not end that badly.

They wanted their targets and cops.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Terrorists in negotiations have agreed to the school kids being removed from the area via bus.

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Pretty much the western world is completely captivated by this situation. Did you know 25 people died in eastern Ukraine last week gun/rocket attacks? Not a peep of coverage about that, nor the destruction of schools or churches either.

Other LIVE SIEGE coverage of the French situation

http://rt.com/on-air/paris-shooting-suspects-live/

http://www.dw.de/france-siege-live-updates/a-18181067

http://www.france24.com/en/20150109-france24-liveblog-charlie-hebdo-shooting-terrorist-suspects-enters-third-day/

http://www.itele.fr/direct

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Any one want to spot me?  Getting tired.

I've been tracking AJAM which seems to get the best coverage.

Fading..

Someone track this - please!

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

The guy that shot the 2 police officers yesterday w/ a full auto AK just took 5 ppl hostage is a grocery store.  knows the 2 terrorists.  Connected.  same cell.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Any one want to spot me?  Getting tired.
> 
> I've been tracking AJAM which seems to get the best coverage.
> 
> Fading..
> 
> Someone track this - please!
> 
> -t


Hello???  Someone - wanna sleep!

-t

----------


## Warlord

what;s the latest tangent?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

2 dead at the supermarket.  The guy that opened fire on a couple of cops yesterday.  No new news on the terrorists that took out the newspaper.

Can someone spot me???

1K kids being evacuated in the hot zone.

-t

----------


## jmdrake

> Good! This made me laugh!
> 
> Oh, I guess it's not funny when they make fun of YOUR gods...
> 
> 
> Even if it wasn't funny, even it is especially vulgar, that's the freaking point. Most good ideas offend SOMEONE, and most ideas on this forum would offend a LOT of people. You don't think Obama and his supporters (they still exist) wouldn't try to shut this forum down for being offensive if that was the caveat in the 1st amendment? "Free speech unless someone's offended!"


Why the hell is it so hard for people to understand what I'm saying?  I don't condone the killing.  I don't think they should have been put in prison either.  But I think they are $#@!s and they lost some sympathy points from me.  Where is my freedom to think someone else is being an $#@!?

Edit: And the other thing to remember is this.  A lot of the Christians running around today saber rattling read to bomb more brown people over this have no idea that these $#@!s have condemned their God as well.  Or did that thought just whiz right past your head without landing?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

M/F combo photos being circulated as support structure.

-t

----------


## jmdrake

> While I don't believe any religion is sacred cow or untouchable (or, I'd like to live in a world where that is the case). I can respect people who think that making fun of another's religion is off limits out of respect, if they can consistently hold all religions to the same standard. 
> 
> But if one thinks make fun of this religion, not mine, I'll have a problem with him.


To be fair you must remember that the Muslim standard for offense is quite low.  Just a depiction of the prophet can be offensive to some.  If this magazine had Mohammed sodomizing a goat on the cover then (I think) many Christians would at least understand the outrage.  But again, I think you and most "libertarians" are missing the point.  Do you think it's a good idea for France to be sending a carrier group and joining the "war on the ISIS crisis" (created by the U.S.), just so some cartoonists can be $#@!s?  We're not talking about whether or not France should arrest the people that did the murders.  Nor are we talking about whether or not France should ban offensive cartoons.  But going to war on behalf of $#@!s?  I wouldn't do that.  And to be fair I'm not ready to go to war with Iran every time some Christian over there gets arrested for preaching the Bible or every time some stupid tourist (CIA agent?) thinks it's a good idea to go hiking on the Iran/Iraq border.  Of course if France wants to go to war on behalf of $#@!s that is their business.

----------


## Natural Citizen

LIVE UPDATES

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

2 perps just got taken out and 5 hostages rescued.  Grocery store.

t

----------


## Warlord

> 2 perps just got taken out and 5 hostages rescued.  Grocery store.
> 
> t


thanks for the updates... youi must be tired

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Someone SPOT ME!  Tired!  Wanna sleep!

Terrorists and police agreed to let kids go ~1K kids

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> thanks for the updates... youi must be tired


Night shift - it's past my bedtime...

Wanna volunteer?

-t

----------


## Warlord

> Night shift - it's past my bedtime...
> 
> Wanna volunteer?
> 
> -t


sorry... my net connection is too slow to keep up with events...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Zzzzzzzzzzzz.......

----------


## DFF

I bet they don't take them alive. Dead men tell no tales. Like who hired them...

----------


## jmdrake

> I bet they don't take them alive. Dead men tell no tales. Like who hired them...


Well they took the 2nd Boston bomber suspect alive after cutting his vocal cords.  There's more than one way to stop someone from talking.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

*BREAKING:  PM Netanyahu orders Israeli MFA & Mossad to give French  government  all the assistance needed in fighting terror wave in Paris*


*Paris shooting updates / Five hostages at kosher gricery in east Paris*
French interior ministry deny reports of two  hostages killed; at least  five people reported held by man armed with  two machine guns. Police  surround industrial zone outside town of  Dammartin-en-Goele.
                                                                                                                                                                               By                                                                                                                                                                                   Haaretz                                                      and                                                                                                                                                                        Barak Ravid                                                                                                                                                     |                                                                                                                                                             Jan. 9, 2015 


*Benjamin Netanyahu Calls on World To Act After Paris Terror Attack*
*Israel Premier Blames Islamists for Sowing Chaos and Hate*
By JTA                 Published January 08, 2015.
Yesterdays murderous attack on free expression   clearly demonstrates  the disdain of radical Islam for the values we hold   dear. We cherish freedom and tolerance; they worship tyranny and  terror, Netanyahu added.
http://forward.com/articles/212312/benjamin-netanyahu-calls-on-world-to-act-after-par/


*All shops in famed Jewish neighborhood ordered closed by police...
*

----------


## PaleoPaul

It's time for France and the rest of Western Europe to wake up and smell the coffee.  Political correctness is killing them.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Of all the nations of Europe, the west, maybe even the WORLD outside of the local region, France was the absolute most friendly towards Islam.  To be honest it makes no sense to me they would be raising this much hell in France unless they are just that stupid about a damn cartoonist...and they don't fight like they are that stupid.

It just doesn't add up.  Germany is 1000x more a threat than France ever was or would have been.  Why do this in France and not Germany?

I suppose it's like asking us 'why a freaking blimp?'  We just wanted a freaking blimp.  Why France?  Maybe these particular idiots just wanted France.  But running an Islamic rampage in France is just about the stupidest level of monumental stupidity I have ever witnessed.  It has taken a nation that waffles between neutral and an ally and places them in the permanent hard enemy camp.  cui bono?

----------


## AuH20

> It's time for France and the rest of Western Europe to wake up and smell the coffee.  Political correctness is killing them.


Inviting foxes to live in your henhouse isn't a wise strategy. The French have a massive unemployment as well as cultural detachment problem with their Muslim minority. It's only a matter of time before that metastasizes into a major terrorist problem.

----------


## PaleoPaul

> Inviting foxes to live in your henhouse isn't a wise strategy. The French have a massive unemployment as well as cultural detachment problem with their Muslim minority. It's only a matter of time before that metastasizes into a major terrorist problem.


EXACTLY.  This isn't some "blowback" or "Mossad Inside Job" or whatever word of the day your favorite Cheeto-stained fingers conspiracy theorist comes up with.  This is the result of decades of multiculturalism policy.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> It's time for France and the rest of Western Europe to wake up and smell the coffee.  Political correctness is killing them.


Not sure if Western Europe will wake up but some in France are taking stand for freedom. Left wing paper "Liberation" owned by Édouard de Rothschild of famous Rothchild family has provided temporary location for housing what is left of the Charlie Hebdo team that is planning to publish million copies next week. 





> Inviting foxes to live in your henhouse isn't a  wise strategy. The French have a massive unemployment as well as  cultural detachment problem with their Muslim minority. It's only a  matter of time before that metastasizes into a major terrorist  problem.


Do you think French occupation of Algeria had anything to do with it? 
Seems like was a natural outcome of spreading freedom in Algeria. Every invasion/intervention has had demographic change "blowback" among others.

Now France is spreading Freedom in Syria after spreading it in Libya
*France to deploy aircraft carrier to fight ISIS—report*



Related

*Obama allowing a thousand Islamic Refugees into the United States each month!*

To  be fair, Iraq/UAE/Saudi/Jordan have also allowed hundreds of thousands  of christian soldiers in their countries. Won't settling Iraqi/Syrian  Islamist war refugees in the US then be a natural trade?  Same happens  with every intervention from Nam war to Iraq.

Just Iraq freedom invasion, that 80-90% of US christians  supported/funded, displaced over a million Iraqi Islamic/Christian  arabs, where should they settle if not in the US? 
Libya/Syria interventions probably created millions of refugees too.

----------


## AuH20

> EXACTLY.  This isn't some "blowback" or "Mossad Inside Job" or whatever word of the day your favorite Cheeto-stained fingers conspiracy theorist comes up with.  This is the result of decades of multiculturalism policy.


The West is involved in funding and training terrorists. It's been documented in numerous papers of record. But they can't run these operations without willing personnel. And there is plenty of ready and willing personnel in these particular locales.

----------


## UWDude

> Of all the nations of Europe, the west, maybe even the WORLD outside of the local region, France was the absolute most friendly towards Islam.


Oh?  What other countries have a Burqa ban?  What other countries banned religious symbols in public insitutions, originally aimed at Muslim head dresses, but then being applied to all religions after the hypocrisy was pointed out, (but still allowing crucifixes and Star of David pendants)?  What country was most involved in the assassination of Ghaddafi?  What Country still really wants to get back into Syria?  What country was most instrumental in helping Israel develop nuclear weapons?  What country gave police protection to a newspaper printing racist caricature cartoons, reminiscent of 1930's Germany's hook nosed Jew cartoons, or Jim Crow Black Men leering at and groping white women cartoons?  How about we talk about the Lebanese Civil War, while we are at it, and how France's political structure of trying to make the minority Maronite Christians the political power there lead to it?




> EXACTLY. This isn't some "blowback" or "Mossad Inside Job" or whatever word of the day your favorite Cheeto-stained fingers conspiracy theorist comes up with. This is the result of decades of multiculturalism policy.


Oh, it can't be the wars, can it?  Idiot.

----------


## Acala

> Of all the nations of Europe, the west, maybe even the WORLD outside of the local region, France was the absolute most friendly towards Islam.  To be honest it makes no sense to me they would be raising this much hell in France unless they are just that stupid about a damn cartoonist...and they don't fight like they are that stupid.
> 
> It just doesn't add up.  Germany is 1000x more a threat than France ever was or would have been.  Why do this in France and not Germany?
> 
> I suppose it's like asking us 'why a freaking blimp?'  We just wanted a freaking blimp.  Why France?  Maybe these particular idiots just wanted France.  But running an Islamic rampage in France is just about the stupidest level of monumental stupidity I have ever witnessed.  It has taken a nation that waffles between neutral and an ally and places them in the permanent hard enemy camp.  cui bono?


Very good questions.

----------


## jmdrake

> Oh?  What other countries have a Burqa ban?  What other countries banned religious symbols in public insitutions, originally aimed at Muslim head dresses, but then being applied to all religions after the hypocrisy was pointed out, (but still allowing crucifixes and Star of David pendants)?  What country was most involved in the assassination of Ghaddafi?  What Country still really wants to get back into Syria?  What country was most instrumental in helping Israel develop nuclear weapons?  What country gave police protection to a newspaper printing racist caricature cartoons, reminiscent of 1930's Germany's hook nosed Jew cartoons, or Jim Crow Black Men leering at and groping white women cartoons?  How about we talk about the Lebanese Civil War, while we are at it, and how France's political structure of trying to make the minority Maronite Christians the political power there lead to it?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, it can't be the wars, can it?  Idiot.


I think the Franco - Algerian war is more relevant than the Lebanese civil war, especially considering that two of the gunmen are Algerian.

http://www.channel4.com/news/france-...r-north-africa

----------


## UWDude

> I think the Franco - Algerian war is more relevant than the Lebanese civil war, especially considering that two of the gunmen are Algerian.
> 
> http://www.channel4.com/news/france-...r-north-africa


I am quite aware of the Algerian War.  After all, that is how eventually most Muslims came to France, (the collaborators), along with the Pied-Noirs who returned to France, and always hated Muslims for daring to take their country back from France.

But to claim France is the most Muslim friendly country in Europe is Hogwash.  I don't think Germany is any more culturally opposed to Islam than France, but at least its legal code is more fair to Muslims, (mostly because of its long experience with "multi-culturalism" with Turkish immigrants).

----------


## AuH20

I'd say we have a serious brewing problem in France.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> I'd say we have a serious brewing problem in France.


Yes indeed.
And far worse problems seems to be brewing in recently liberated Iraq/Libya and in Syria that is in process of being liberated. Its impacts are already flowing to US/Europe.

----------


## jonhowe

> Why the hell is it so hard for people to understand what I'm saying?  I don't condone the killing.  I don't think they should have been put in prison either.  But I think they are $#@!s and they lost some sympathy points from me.  Where is my freedom to think someone else is being an $#@!?
> 
> Edit: And the other thing to remember is this.  A lot of the Christians running around today saber rattling read to bomb more brown people over this have no idea that these $#@!s have condemned their God as well.  Or did that thought just whiz right past your head without landing?


Ah, the "I don't condone, BUT" line. About what I expected. I'm sorry if they offended you.



That being said, they were on our side when it comes to foreign policy issues:

----------


## UWDude

BTW, Charlie Hebdo did indeed fire a cartoonist once, for making a cartoon that was too insensitive.  Want to guess which group he maligned?

http://iroots.org/2015/01/08/charlie...mitic-in-2009/




> Maurice Sinet, 80, who works under the pen name Sine, faces charges of “inciting racial hatred” for a column he wrote last July in the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo. The piece sparked a summer slanging match among the Parisian intelligentsia and ended in his dismissal from the magazine.





> A high-profile political commentator slammed the column as linking prejudice about Jews and social success. Charlie Hebdo’s editor, Philippe Val, asked Sinet to apologise but he refused, exclaiming: “I’d rather cut my balls off.”

----------


## moostraks

> WTF
> 
> Was Tepesh impaling Arabs in Arabia or Turks in Vlachia who came as invaders.You people have some serious issues.He did not claim he was doing God`s work or that he is a prophet of God ,he was fighting for his people and country.Was he trying to Christianize them or were they trying to Islamise him?


Reposting for you since you seem to be ignoring what has been previously posted:



> Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia (1431-1476; r. 1456-1462, also 1476),* became a Romanian national hero for his defense of the Orthodox Christian faith against the Turk.* He fought for Hungarian King Matthias Corvinus against Sultan Mehmet II ("the Conqueror").
> He is also known as Vlad Ţepeş ("the Impaler") for his infliction of certain bodily mortifications against his enemies; as well as Vlad Drăculea ("Son of the Dragon") after his father Vlad II Dracul, a member of the Order of the Dragon (established in commemoration of the 1389 Battle of Kosovo)...
> 
> *In a rare example of interfaith cooperation, he fought under the blessing of both Catholic and Orthodox churches. He founded some fifty churches and monasteries in Moldavia.*


http://orthodoxwiki.org/Vlad_the_Impaler

Then there is his peculiar moral code that led to things such as:



> Vlad Dracula tried to enforce his own moral code upon his country and was particularly concerned with female chastity. Maidens, who had lost their virginity, adulterous wives and unchaste widows often had their sexual organs cut out or were impaled through the vagina on red-hot stakes. He also ordered the breasts of women to be cut off and he forced their men to eat them. He would roast little children and force their own mothers to eat them. It was reported that Vlad once ripped open the body of one of his mistresses to disprove her pregnancy. 
> 
> Vlad was also 'concerned' with the numerous poor, vagabonds, beggars and cripples in his land, explaining: "These men live off the sweat of others; it is a form of thievery." He invited them to come to Tirgoviste for a fabulous feast and when they had ate and drank late into the night, he had the doors locked and the hall set on fire - and none escaped the flames. Thus Dracula 'eradicated poverty'.


http://madmonarchs.guusbeltman.nl/ma...racula_bio.htm




> Once, two ambassadors from the Sultan came with a message for Vlad. When they entered his throne room, he asked them to remove their turbans. It was considered rude to address the prince without taking off one's hat. The Turks, however, took exception to this request. For one thing, Vlad and the Sultan where not on good terms, so insulting him really didn't seem to matter, and just as importantly, the turbans were not just headgear, they were a symbol of the Muslim religion. The Turks refused, not knowing just how serious a mistake it was to insult Vlad. Vlad immediately ordered his guards to seize them, and then stated that if they were so unwilling to part with the turbans, that they should be nailed to their heads. Vlad then watched in satisfaction as the Turks writhed and screamed as nails were driven into their skulls. The envoys were sent back to the sultan.


http://www.davidstuff.com/historical/vlad.htm

Memorialized:



> Lake Snagov is located just about 20 miles or so north of Bucharest. The monastery is on an island in the middle of the lake, accessible only by boat.  The monastery is on an island in the middle of the lake, accessible only by boat. The Snagov Monastery is traditionally believed to be the burial place of Vlad Tepes., though there is not complete agreement about whether this is the case. 
> 
>  According to some historical accounts, his headless body was taken to the monastery and buried in front of the altar. The spot is clearly marked with a small portrait of Vlad, and a vase of fresh flowers -


http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/vlad_romania.html




> On Wednesday, 26 September 2012, His Beatitude Daniel, Patriarch of the Romanian Orthodox Church celebrated the re-consecration service of the oldest monastic settlement of the Archdiocese of Bucharest, Snagov church monastery, founded by Saint Prince Neagoe Basarab.


http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/n...rch-monastery/

He was operating with the blessings of institutionalized Christianity and is still memorialized and respected for his contribution to spreading institutionalized Christianity. His atrocities are associated with his peculiar ideals on morality, not merely a retaliatory or preemptive random violence.

----------


## jmdrake

> Ah, the "I don't condone, BUT" line. About what I expected. I'm sorry if they offended you.


Screw it.  I'm voting for Jeb Bush because I know he will stick it to them damn Ayyyrabs.  Happy now?    Seriously dude this "Everybody has to love and embrace $#@!s" line you are pushing is itself anti liberty.




> That being said, they were on our side when it comes to foreign policy issues:



That's nice.  And sometimes MSNBC is on "our side" as well.  That said, our enemies on foreign policy are using this tragedy to further their agenda of killing Muslims in the name of Christianity, all the while not knowing what Charlie Hebdo thinks of Christinity.

----------


## Zippyjuan

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/09/eu...aris-shooting/




> *France: Raids kill 3 suspects, including 2 wanted in Charlie Hebdo attack*
> 
> Paris (CNN)Three terrorists -- one suspected in the fatal shooting of a policewoman, the other two in the massacre at the offices of Charlie Hebdo magazine -- were killed Friday in separate raids in France, authorities said.
> 
> A hostage being held at a printing shop in Dammartin-en-Goele survived, and people ran out of a kosher grocery store in eastern Paris where hostages were being held. But authorities' work isn't over: A female suspect in Thursday's fatal police shooting is still at large.
> 
> Latest updates at 1:39 p.m. ET
> 
> *STANDOFF IN DAMMARTIN-EN-GOELE*
> ...


More at link.

----------


## juleswin

> I'd say we have a serious brewing problem in France.


Wow, I hate to say it but I will support deporting every idiot man, woman and child who supports ISIS in any capacity. We don't need govt involvement, just publicly proclaim your support of ISIS and I and a lot of like minded people will do the leg work of taking good are of these people. 

This is un $#@!ing believable.

----------


## jmdrake

> Wow, I hate to say it but I will support deporting every idiot man, woman and child who supports ISIS in any capacity. We don't need govt involvement, just publicly proclaim your support of ISIS and I and a lot of like minded people will do the leg work of taking good are of these people. 
> 
> This is un $#@!ing believable.


What do you expect when you spend all of this time pumping the idea that Assad = Hitler and allying with Al Qaeda against Assad makes sense?  There are probably that many people who in effect support ISIS in the U.S. but just don't know it.  They think they are supporting "freedom."

----------


## devil21

> EXACTLY.  This isn't some "blowback" or "Mossad Inside Job" or whatever word of the day your favorite Cheeto-stained fingers conspiracy theorist comes up with.  This is the result of decades of multiculturalism policy.


I wiped the Cheetos crumbs off my fingers long enough to find and post this, just for you:
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-n...estine-2014-11




> Jerusalem (AFP) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned Sunday that France's parliament would be making a "grave mistake" if it recognises a Palestinian state in a vote on December 2. 
> 
> "Do they have nothing better to do at a time of beheadings across the Middle East, including that of a French citizen?" he told reporters in Jerusalem, referring to hiker Herve Gourdel who was executed by his jihadist captors in Algeria in September.
> 
> "Recognition of a Palestinian state by France would be a grave mistake," Netanyahu said.
> 
> "The State of Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, the only state that we have, and the Palestinians demanding a state do not want to recognise the right to have a state for the Jewish people," Netanyahu told members of Israel's growing Jewish community from France.
> 
> His comments came just hours after his cabinet voted 14-6 in favour of a controversial proposal to anchor in law Israel's status as "the national homeland of the Jewish people".
> ...


But naaaa, stuff like Mossad engineering an attack is 'crazy conspiracy theory'.  It's gotta be angry muslims shooting up Paris with automatic weapons on general principle.   

You do understand that 'ISIS' is controlled by Mossad, CIA and Saudis right?  This attack is most likely 'ISIS' fighters brought in to exact retribution on France, as threatened.  But keep thinking it's some "multicultural" issue instead of foreign policy playing out.  You probably believed the bs story about the video causing the Benghazi attack too.....

----------


## Acala

> I wiped the Cheetos crumbs off my fingers long enough to find and post this, just for you:
> http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-n...estine-2014-11
> 
> 
> 
> But naaaa, stuff like Mossad engineering an attack is 'crazy conspiracy theory'.  It's gotta be angry muslims shooting up Paris with automatic weapons on general principle.   
> 
> You do understand that 'ISIS' is controlled by Mossad, CIA and Saudis right?  This attack is most likely 'ISIS' fighters brought in to exact retribution on France, as threatened.  But keep thinking it's some "multicultural" issue instead of foreign policy playing out.  You probably believed the bs story about the video causing the Benghazi attack too.....


And now all the suspects are dead?

This went much better than the Levon Affair.

----------


## FloralScent

> And now all the suspects are dead?
> 
> This went much better than the Levon Affair.


Loose ends tied up with a shiny bow.

----------


## FloralScent

> EXACTLY.  This isn't some "blowback" or "Mossad Inside Job" or whatever word of the day your favorite Cheeto-stained fingers conspiracy theorist comes up with.  *This is the result of decades of multiculturalism policy*.


Which itself is a conspiracy against the people of France and most of their neighbors.

----------


## alucard13mm

Let's say USA was the most liberty friendly country on earth and we have open borders and allow illegal immigration/mass legal immigration. Would the inhabitants of the most liberty friendly country want people coming in who are anti-liberty??? Some of those people would convert to liberty, but enough will stay anti-liberty and hold onto their old ways and slowly gain power.

What would you do as a liberty oriented inhabitant?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

seriously peeps?

the only mention of what went down was buried in a wall of text?

2 terrorists dead.  print shop.  2 hostages safe.  Went out in a "blaze of glory"  Like snipers can not hit shoulders, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles...

1 terrorist dead.  4 hostages dead.  details vague.

Game over.

peeps here suck at tracking unfolding events 

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> seriously peeps?
> 
> the only mention of what went down was buried in a wall of text?
> 
> 2 terrorists dead.  print shop.  2 hostages safe.  Went out in a "blaze of glory"  Like snipers can not hit shoulders, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles...
> 
> 1 terrorist dead.  4 hostages dead.  details vague.
> 
> Game over.
> ...


^^^^^ You've done a very good job following, posting, and informing the forum today.

A+ Rep.

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

What will it take for European countries to realize that multiculturalism is a failed experiment? Complete social destruction? The signs are everywhere, and the establishment denies what's right in front of their faces.

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

> Screw it.  I'm voting for Jeb Bush because I know he will stick it to them damn Ayyyrabs.  Happy now?    Seriously dude this "Everybody has to love and embrace $#@!s" line you are pushing is itself anti liberty.
> 
> That's nice.  And sometimes MSNBC is on "our side" as well.  That said, our enemies on foreign policy are using this tragedy to further their agenda of killing Muslims in the name of Christianity, all the while not knowing what Charlie Hebdo thinks of Christinity.


How is it anti-liberty to defend people who make controversial statements that offend certain groups? That's an unbelievably dumb statement. Your ideas seem to get more inane with every post you make.

----------


## NOVALibertarian

> What will it take for European countries to realize that multiculturalism is a failed experiment? Complete social destruction? The signs are everywhere, and the establishment denies what's right in front of their faces.


If similar events like what happened yesterday take place in Europe, it's a safe bet that at least the European people will wake up to that realization.  Hell, they're already seeing what's happening to their countries and their culture, hence the support for groups like the UKIP and Front National.  

The establishment can deny all they want, but they won't be able to deny their inevitable defeat if they continue to support such failed policies, although I have no problem with them going down with the ship.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Third terrorist.  Looks like he detonated an explosive device.  Had stated he would start executing people if anything happened to his 2 pals.  He was supposed to be holding 5 hostages, yet at least 6, maybe 8 were seen fleeing the location when it went down and 4 supposedly did not make it.

This is the one that shot 2 cops, one of which died.

-t

----------


## DFF

> What will it take for European countries to realize that multiculturalism is a failed experiment? Complete social destruction? The signs are everywhere, and the establishment denies what's right in front of their faces.


That's racist dude. We can't say these kind of things around here. Plus rep coming.

----------


## DFF

> I bet they don't take them alive. Dead men tell no tales. Like who hired them...


Looks like I was right.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> Let's say USA was the most liberty friendly country on earth and we have open borders and allow illegal immigration/mass legal immigration. Would the inhabitants of the most liberty friendly country want people coming in who are anti-liberty??? Some of those people would convert to liberty, but enough will stay anti-liberty and hold onto their old ways and slowly gain power.
> 
> What would you do as a liberty oriented inhabitant?


they would realize how great it is here and not return back, like millions. This country turned to crap and there's still people trying to get in because it's less worse than what they have

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

loose ends:

18yo M getaway driver turned himself in.  Was not that into it.

the girl, GF of terrorist #3 is on the run and being sought.

neither of them shot anyone.

-t

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

I wish I understood French, so I could try and keep with the doubtless chorus of left wing politicians insisting that "Multiculturalism and Islam have nothing to do with this". How they'll spin this one should be fun to watch. Without the multicult experiment, this never would've happened and that's irrefutable.

----------


## PaleoPaul

> I wish I understood French, so I could try and keep with the doubtless chorus of left wing politicians insisting that "Multiculturalism and Islam have nothing to do with this". How they'll spin this one should be fun to watch. Without the multicult experiment, this never would've happened and that's irrefutable.


Hey, dude, I can't private message you.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

*Zionists' “five-year problem” hits Paris*





> I wish I understood French, so I could try and keep with the doubtless chorus of left wing politicians insisting that "Multiculturalism and Islam have nothing to do with this". How they'll spin this one should be fun to watch. Without the multicult experiment, this never would've happened and that's irrefutable.


* Iraq War, Abu Ghraib Torture ‘Motivated’ Paris Killers*








*Charlie Hebdo: This Attack Was Nothing To Do With Free Speech — It Was About War

*

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I wish I understood French, so I could try and keep with the doubtless chorus of left wing politicians insisting that "Multiculturalism and Islam have nothing to do with this". How they'll spin this one should be fun to watch. Without the multicult experiment, this never would've happened and that's irrefutable.


I posted links to a bunch of translation engines in the science and technology sub-forum.
Google International newspapers.  Many are in English.
Skype does audio translation, but I think they only support English-Spanish right now and it goes directly to NSA.

-t

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

> Hey, dude, I can't private message you.


That's weird. I accepted your friend request, not sure why that'd be. Some features on this site I don't seem to have access to yet, I can't edit my sig and I don't see any button to rep people. Maybe that's why.

----------


## devil21

> That's weird. I accepted your friend request, not sure why that'd be. Some features on this site I don't seem to have access to yet, I can't edit my sig and I don't see any button to rep people. Maybe that's why.


You need more posts to access PM and other features.  I think 100 posts opens up most things but best to ask a mod directly for confirmation.

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

> *Zionists' “five-year problem” hits Paris*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Iraq War, Abu Ghraib Torture ‘Motivated’ Paris Killers*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They were enraged by Abu Ghraib, which is why they psychotically murdered people who worked at a magazine that had absolutely nothing to do with that, or anything listed in that ridiculous article. Most Muslims in France (and throughout Western Europe) are there by choice. If it's so oppressive there, why go to their Islamic homelands that are oh-so replete with individual liberty? If France recognized itself as a Nation of people instead of simply a nation-state, controlled their demographics like a nation is supposed to and didn't try to maintain a multicult, this never would have happened. Nothing in that article remotely refutes that.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> They were enraged by Abu Ghraib, which is why they psychotically murdered people who worked at a magazine that had absolutely nothing to do with that, or anything listed in that ridiculous article.


Nobody is arguing their "radicalizing" and resulting actions were logical or justified.
Revenge often lacks these qualities. Just as bloody "crusade" into Iraq supported by "temporarily radicalized" US public majority after wtc1/2/7 attacks was neither logical nor justified as Iraq had nothing to do with those attacks.

If someone asked you what motivated US attack on Iraq after 9/11, are logically able to answer without looking at real motivation (revenge)?

If you are arguing these killers were motivated by scripture primarily and not their perceptions of West's attacks on "their" people, that would be a worthwhile discussion.

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

> Nobody is arguing their "radicalizing" and resulting actions were logical or justified.
> Revenge often lacks these qualities. Just as bloody "crusade" into Iraq supported by "temporarily radicalized" US public majority after wtc1/2/7 attacks was neither logical nor justified as Iraq had nothing to do with those attacks.
> 
> If someone asked you what motivated US attack on Iraq after 9/11, are logically able to answer without looking at real motivation (revenge)?
> 
> If you are arguing these killers were motivated by scripture primarily and not their perceptions of West's attacks on "their" people, that would be a worthwhile discussion.


It's fine to argue that X was motivated by Y in a descriptive sense, though when discussing Islamic terror, it's always a partial motivation. The problem is that asinine third article you linked bloviates about how racist whites had their prejudices reinforced, and how awful France is for Muslims, even though Western European countries bend over backwards to look tolerant, especially toward Muslims. There are numerous countries that enforce the brutal Islamist order these nutcases want, yet they stay in the West that has--for the most part--welcomed them. That article is just feeding into the nonsense anti-white narratives of the PC left, and I don't want to see that infect the liberty movement. Blowback is real, but so is psychotic behavior motivated by fundamentalist Islam and this attack--like most of attacks by radical Muslims--is a combination of both.

----------


## PaleoPaul

> It's fine to argue that X was motivated by Y in a descriptive sense, though when discussing Islamic terror, it's always a partial motivation. The problem is that asinine third article you linked bloviates about how racist whites had their prejudices reinforced, and how awful France is for Muslims, even though Western European countries bend over backwards to look tolerant, especially toward Muslims. There are numerous countries that enforce the brutal Islamist order these nutcases want, yet they stay in the West that has--for the most part--welcomed them. That article is just feeding into the nonsense anti-white narratives of the PC left, and I don't want to see that infect the liberty movement. Blowback is real, but so is psychotic behavior motivated by fundamentalist Islam and this attack--like most of attacks by radical Muslims--is a combination of both.


Don't worry...there'll probably be a way to blame it on Da Joos somehow.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

I don't necessarily agree with everything in articles linked to present a  differing view or support my view, I stand behind what I say. There are  many open questions about this story yet as early info in MSM is often  foggy, as of now it does not appear to be false flag attack to build  support for French intervention in mideast or to punish it for its  recent support for ending occupation of Palestinians. But I don't find  it incredible that some "colored" muslims in France could get  radicalized after looking at images of violence in Iraq and that they  then would irrationally attack those who in their perceptions is  associated with attack on "their" people,  is "anti muslim". Do we know  what stance this mag staff, that is now being supported by prominent  Rothschild in France with goal to publish million copies next week, took in their cartoons about Abu Ghraib, Iraq  war violence, Palestinian oppression? 

Not discounting any religious  fervor over insults to their religion but it seems so far that West led  violence in mideast after wtc1/2/7 that resulted in deaths/maiming of  hundreds of thousands probably played a major part in shaping their  world view of late and who they became. 

I have question for you.

Is this attack on French mag as a revenge for Abu Ghraib torture  as logical as US invasion of Iraq as a revenge for 9/11?



*Kosher supermarket attacker claimed IS bonds; wanted to target Jews and defend Palestine*

Amedy  Coulibaly, the hostage taker who killed four people and wounded   four  others  in a kosher supermarket in eastern Paris on Friday,  *called  BFM-TV before he died to claim allegiance to Islamic State*, saying he  wanted to defend Palestinians and target Jews.

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Kosher...lestine-387267




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIRUeJYFZ94

*Israel ‘Concerned’ over US War On ISIS*
Minister Yuval Steinitz is at the forefront of Israeli  officials expressing “concern” tonight at the new US war on ISIS, which they see as potentially getting in the way of long-term US hostility toward Iran.
Steinitz shrugged off *ISIS as a “five-year problem,”* while declaring   Iran a “50-year problem with far greater impact,” and  that more moves to   stop Iran’s nuclear program ought to come before  the new war.The   “concern” seems to center  on the belief that Iran  would benefit  from   ISIS’ defeat, the same  reason Israel has long  looked the other way   on  ISIS and al-Qaeda in  Syria

----------


## DFF

> Don't worry...there'll probably be a way to blame it on Da Joos somehow.


You may be on to something.







> "I think there's a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be mulit-cultural. *WE* are are going to be part of the throes of that transformation....which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they were in the last century. *Jews are going to be at the center of that. It's a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode. And Jews will be resented because of our leading role."*

----------


## UWDude

> Don't worry...there'll probably be a way to blame it on Da Joos somehow.


Hebdo never fired a cartoonist for Islamophobia, but they did fire cartoonist  Maurice Sinet for anti-semitism.  I guess there is one group of People, even Hebdo can't make fun of.

----------


## PaleoPaul

> Hebdo never fired a cartoonist for Islamophobia, but they did fire cartoonist  Maurice Sinet for anti-semitism.  I guess there is one group of People, even Hebdo can't make fun of.


I notice you keep using that cultural Marxist word "Islamophobia."  No such thing exists.  

In fact, Muslims have a VERY low chance of being the victims of hate crimes.  If you're worried about hate crime victims, focus your attention on African-Americans, Jews, and the LGBT community.  Those 3 demographic groups are at the highest risk for hate attacks.

----------


## UWDude

> I notice you keep using that cultural Marxist word "Islamophobia."  No such thing exists.


I see it all over the place.  telling me it doesn't exist is like telling me rain doesn't exist.  Somebody posted a video in another thread, where an old codger literally said, to start his lecture, "why are we afraid of Islam?"  That is direct, literal proof that Islamophobia does exist.




> In fact, Muslims have a VERY low chance of being the victims of hate crimes.  If you're worried about hate crime victims, focus your attention on African-Americans, Jews, and the LGBT community.  Those 3 demographic groups are at the highest risk for hate attacks.


The Second Gulf War was a giant hate crime.  Iraq was punished because it was muslim, and muslims committed 9/11, even though there were no Iraqi hijackers.

But, honestly, who said anything about hate crimes?  All I mentioned was there is one group of people even Hebdo won't make fun of, and that is the Jews.

Because you can $#@! on Muslims all day, and your two minutes of hate will be joined in by millions of culturally driven idiots who will hate whatever they are told to hate through media and movies.  But say anything remotely anti-semitic, and you might as well kiss your professional career good bye.  Hell, Maurice Sinet was even charged with "inciting racial hatred" for his cartoon, by the so-called bastion of free speech, France, and his cartoon about Jews was laaaaaame and taaame compared to some of the cartoons about Islam.

----------


## fr33

> FYI.  These are the people who's free speech we are defending.
> 
> 
> 
> In case you don't know French the caption reads "The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit".


Good. I approve of it.

----------


## fr33

> The original intent of the 1st amendment was to protect political speech, not asinine speech.  Of course this is France so the 1st amendment doesn't apply at all.  And sure, they have a right to do what they do.  That said, a few of my tears dried up after seeing that.


Asinine is subjective. I could introduce you to plenty of immoral bastards in our history books that think it was asinine to grant slaves rights.

----------


## fr33

> Maybe they should have considering that the kind of speech deserving the most protection seems to get the least.  What with sermons being scrutinized during the Bush administration by the IRS to see if they were antiwar or sermons being scrutinized now by the lesbian mayor of Houston to see if they are anti gay.  But again, I'm not saying that asinine speech should be free from government interference or that murder for whatever reason shouldn't be punished.  I am saying these particular satirists have just lost some of my sympathy.  The CEO of the Mozilla non profit had to step down over outrage because he donated $1,000 to the California initiative not to recognize same sex marriage, but Christians are blissfully unaware of the hateful screeds leveled at their belief system since they are so focused on the "islamofascists."


You are very close to joining the WBC. Was it "islamofasiciststs" that killed those Frenchmen? Should Christians support their killings or should they just not care? I'm confused about what you are saying.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Good. I approve of it.


Well, I think he's going to hell.  But then, I also think he has every right to go to hell if that's really what he wants to do. So.... :shrug:

----------


## PRB

> You are very close to joining the WBC. Was it "islamofasiciststs" that killed those Frenchmen? Should Christians support their killings or should they just not care? I'm confused about what you are saying.


There's at least 5 kinds of violent Muslims

-those targeting individuals based on specific actions (such as blasphemy, fatwa)
-those who target people of a different country for political reasons (Palestinians and Zionists)
-those who all out oppose the west
-those who only have a problem with Americans & allies
-those who have political power and openly use their government to declare state sponsored wars (Hizbollah, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood)

----------


## fr33

> Well, I think he's going to hell.  But then, I also think he has every right to go to hell if that's really what he wants to do. So.... :shrug:


I wonder if in hell they have constitutional republics or democracies. Just my luck that I'd be subjected to such garbage.

----------


## PRB

> Well, I think he's going to hell.  But then, I also think he has every right to go to hell if that's really what he wants to do. So.... :shrug:


if God didn't want people to freely choose going to hell, why would he give people the ability to freely choose it?

----------


## PRB

> I wonder if in hell they have constitutional republics or democracies. Just my luck that I'd be subjected to such garbage.


they have theocracy, duh.

----------


## fr33

> There's at least 5 kinds of violent Muslims
> 
> -those targeting individuals based on specific actions (such as blasphemy, fatwa)
> -those who target people of a different country for political reasons (Palestinians and Zionists)
> -those who all out oppose the west
> -those who only have a problem with Americans & allies
> -those who have political power and openly use their government to declare state sponsored wars (Hizbollah, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood)


Oh come on theres surely a 6th, 7th, or 8th one.  People aren't that bad, even if they aren't willing to be so open.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I wonder if in hell they have constitutional republics or democracies. Just my luck that I'd be subjected to such garbage.


I think it's a whole lot of not existing.

----------


## fr33

> I think it's a whole lot of not existing.


Not existing in hell sounds pretty good. Not that I believe in it. Every other Baptist that I've known has said it involved physical and mental torture. That's a pretty awesome alternative.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Not existing in hell sounds pretty good. Not that I believe in it. Every other Baptist that I've known has said it involved physical and mental torture. That's a pretty awesome alternative.


All that torture crap comes from Dante, a Catholic author of fiction. It was like a very early Lord Of The Rings with Christians back in the day, and it was so popular that the myths in the Inferno eventually became accepted in popular Christian culture as fact.

----------


## FrancisMarion

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=064QkrMATW8#

Hmm.

----------


## juleswin

> I see it all over the place.  telling me it doesn't exist is like telling me rain doesn't exist.  Somebody posted a video in another thread, where an old codger literally said, to start his lecture, "why are we afraid of Islam?"  That is direct, literal proof that Islamophobia does exist.
> 
> 
> 
> The Second Gulf War was a giant hate crime.  Iraq was punished because it was muslim, and muslims committed 9/11, even though there were no Iraqi hijackers.
> 
> But, honestly, who said anything about hate crimes?  All I mentioned was there is one group of people even Hebdo won't make fun of, and that is the Jews.
> 
> Because you can $#@! on Muslims all day, and your two minutes of hate will be joined in by millions of culturally driven idiots who will hate whatever they are told to hate through media and movies.  But say anything remotely anti-semitic, and you might as well kiss your professional career good bye.  Hell, Maurice Sinet was even charged with "inciting racial hatred" for his cartoon, by the so-called bastion of free speech, France, and his cartoon about Jews was laaaaaame and taaame compared to some of the cartoons about Islam.


Out of reps or else I would have rep this post. Its also funny that he accuses you of using a word whose meaning doesn't exist and then goes ahead to use the word "hate crime" in his reply.

----------


## jmdrake

> You are very close to joining the WBC. Was it "islamofasiciststs" that killed those Frenchmen? Should Christians support their killings or should they just not care? I'm confused about what you are saying.


How am I close to joining WBC?  Because I don't think that pastors should have to turn over their sermons to police state goons?  I would say that would make me close to Ron Paul.  Are you now so pro gay that you have become anti first amendment?  And no, Christians should not support killing anyone.  That includes the little brown kids that are going to get drone bombed in response to the Charlie Hebdo killings.  Do you now support drone bombings?  Take some time over the next few days and listen to conservative talk radio and hear how many of these right wingnuts are pushing for more drone bombings thanks to the Charlie Hebdo killings and ask yourself if these people would be *sooooo* supportive of war against Islam if they realized the psychological war Charlie Hebdo was waging against the Christian religion.

----------


## jmdrake

> Asinine is subjective. I could introduce you to plenty of immoral bastards in our history books that think it was asinine to grant slaves rights.


That's nice.  What's your point?  Or do you even have one?  My point is simple.  So simple that people like yourself seem incapable of understanding it.  Millions of right wing Christians are ready to up the ante in the GWOT because it was Muslims attacking Charlie Hebdo.  But if they saw the full extent of what Charlie Hebdo did, they might not be that willing to support the GWOT with such religious fervor.  Of course when Charlie Hebdo lampooned Sarkozy's son for considering converting to Judaism, the C.H. employee got fired and criminally charged for "inciting racial hatred."  You see thought crime laws in France only apply to certain politically protected groups, and Christians don't fall into that category.  Muslims don't either apparently.  But stay in your own little politically correct bubble where you are not allowed to even look at all the facts and think for yourself.

----------


## jmdrake

> I notice you keep using that cultural Marxist word "Islamophobia."  No such thing exists.







> In fact, Muslims have a VERY low chance of being the victims of hate crimes.  If you're worried about hate crime victims, focus your attention on African-Americans, Jews, and the LGBT community.  Those 3 demographic groups are at the highest risk for hate attacks.


Uh-huh.  So it's fine and dandy for France to criminally charge someone for saying something anti-Jewish.   That's "freedom."

----------


## devil21

> There's at least 5 kinds of violent Muslims
> 
> -those targeting individuals based on specific actions (such as blasphemy, fatwa)
> -those who target people of a different country for political reasons (Palestinians and Zionists)
> -those who all out oppose the west
> -those who only have a problem with Americans & allies
> -those who have political power and openly use their government to declare state sponsored wars (Hizbollah, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood)


You forgot:
-those trained, sponsored and directed by western intelligence agencies and allies.

----------


## PRB

> You forgot:
> -those trained, sponsored and directed by western intelligence agencies and allies.


I'd argue those are either those are either the 4th or 5th kind. What trains them and fuels them with weapons and money is one thing, who they target and what their cause/beef is, that's my categorization criteria for now.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> I'd argue those are either those are either the 4th or 5th kind. What trains them and fuels them with weapons and money is one thing, who they target and what their cause/beef is, that's my categorization criteria for now.


There are 5 kinds of violent muslims,
 4 kinds of vilolent christians,
 2 kinds of violent jews,
6 kinds of violent agnostics, 
3 kinds of violent atheists.

There is one kind in each of these groups that is most violent due to its inclination to accumulate/use WMDs on civilian population centers.





> You forgot:
> -those trained, sponsored and directed by western intelligence agencies and allies.


That is the top secret “five-year problem” kind and is not to be talked about.
Unfortunately we have in 1980s (Afghan Jihad)  and 2010s (Libya/Syria)  blundered in estimating their real lifespans and continue pay dearly for that.

----------


## PRB

> There are 5 kinds of violent muslims,
>  4 kinds of vilolent christians,
>  2 kinds of violent jews,
> 6 kinds of violent agnostics, 
> 3 kinds of violent atheists.
> 
> There is one kind in each of these groups that is most violent due to its inclination to accumulate/use WMDs on civilian population centers.


Yes, there are probably as many kinds of those as you say. The point I am making is, the fact both the criminals and the outsiders ID them as a religious group, and it's actually true they share religious doctrines with the said group, we can also make distinctions between and among them for better understanding of how to deal with them. 

We recognize not all foreigners are equal, not all Spanish speaking immigrants are equal, not all government is equal, not all murderers are equal, and not all liberty lovers are equal, so it's only fair to understand the motives and beliefs of violent and criminal Muslims if we wish to deal with them specifically without generalizing (or worse yet, responding pooring).

----------


## squarepusher



----------


## PRB

> 


Payback's a bitch. I'm glad the liberal media is keeping this from us, and no government is behind this terrorism.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

*French websites hacked to display ISIS flag in aftermath of Charlie Hebdo slaughter*
 
*The  infamous  banner and other extremist imagery appeared on the websites of  at least  five town governments outside Paris, including Piscop, Val  D'Oise,  Ezanville and Jouy-le-Moutier, late Thursday.*

                                                                                                               BY                                                                                                                                                    Rachelle Blidner                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                             NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
                                                                             Friday, January 9, 2015, 6:57 AM

                                                                                     Dozens of websites in France were hacked to display the ISIS  flag on Thursday.       
                                                                 Several  French websites were hacked to display the ISIS flag as the  country  reels from the Charlie Hebdo magazine massacre that killed 12  innocents  in Paris Thursday.
      The black and white extremist banner invaded the websites of at  least  five town governments on the outskirts of Paris, including  Piscop, Val  D'Oise, Ezanville and Jouy-le-Moutier, according to Global News.
      "The Islamic State Stay Inchallah, Free Palestine, Death to  France,  Death to Charlie," the hacked sites read as Arabic music played  in the  background.


     ville-bruyeres.fr    The hacked Ville Bruyères site showed the image of someone making a profane gesture at the Eiffel Tower.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.2071357 








> Payback's a bitch.


It had started already, French foreign interventions should pick up steam now:


*France to deploy aircraft carrier to fight ISIS—report*

----------


## jmdrake

> 


Oh but according to some here hate crimes only happen to blacks, jews and lgbts.

----------


## PRB

> *French websites hacked to display ISIS flag in aftermath of Charlie Hebdo slaughter* 
> *The  infamous  banner and other extremist imagery appeared on the websites of  at least  five town governments outside Paris, including Piscop, Val  D'Oise,  Ezanville and Jouy-le-Moutier, late Thursday.*
> 
>                                                                                                                BY                                                                                                                                                    Rachelle Blidner                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
> 
>                                                                              NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
>                                                                              Friday, January 9, 2015, 6:57 AM
> 
>                                                                                      Dozens of websites in France were hacked to display the ISIS  flag on Thursday.       
> ...


French are finally learning from us?

You shoot our satirists? We'll stage a false flag website hacking and use that to justify military action!

----------


## FloralScent

> Hebdo never fired a cartoonist for Islamophobia, but they did fire cartoonist  Maurice Sinet for anti-semitism.  I guess there is one group of People, even Hebdo can't make fun of.


duh

----------


## osan

> There are 5 kinds of violent muslims,
>  4 kinds of vilolent christians,
>  2 kinds of violent jews,
> 6 kinds of violent agnostics, 
> 3 kinds of violent atheists.


And 34,581 different kinds of raging, hate-soaked, progressive socialists.

----------


## osan

> Uh-huh.  So it's fine and dandy for France to criminally charge someone for saying something anti-Jewish.   That's "freedom."


Oh the French are grade-A scumbags, to be sure.  If you deny the so-called "holocaust" in any manner or degree, there will be a nice cold prison cell awaiting you with lonely Frogs therein, eager to teach you what your tongue is _really_ for.

That aside, were I Frog, I'd probably be readying up my ethnic cleansing plans right about now. 

Speaking of which, who would have guessed back in the days of the war in Bosnia that the "ethnic cleansing", of which the nations of the "west" were so dedicatedly decrying, would be one day looming in places like Frog?  I find the whole prospect irresistibly ticklesome.  I just want to break out in maniacal laughter of the sort that prompts others to have he who is laughing taken away and heavily medicated.

----------


## Acala

> Let's say USA was the most liberty friendly country on earth and we have open borders and allow illegal immigration/mass legal immigration. Would the inhabitants of the most liberty friendly country want people coming in who are anti-liberty??? Some of those people would convert to liberty, but enough will stay anti-liberty and hold onto their old ways and slowly gain power.
> 
> What would you do as a liberty oriented inhabitant?


You so severely limit government power, and put chains on it that are so heavy, that it doesn't MATTER who controls it because they have no power to DO anything.  And as backup you establish the radical right of peaceful secession as the cornerstone.  People that don't share your values are only a serious danger because we have empowered government to force-feed value systems on all of us.  It is excess government power that makes it imperative that "our" values prevail.

----------


## tod evans

Whew-boy! The Frogs have gone-n-done it now!

They're marching and waving signs.........Maybe next they'll write SWLOD's....

How many more war-dollars is the US going to be called on to print?

How many more US soldiers are going to be dispatched?




*
'We are Charlie': Tens of thousands march to honor victims of Paris attack*

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01...-paris-attack/

Tens of thousands of people including more than 40 world leaders streamed into the heart of Paris on Sunday for a rally of national unity to honor the 17 victims of three days of terror.

The aftermath of the attacks remained raw, with video emerging of one of the gunmen killed during police raids pledging allegiance to the Islamic State group and detailing how the attacks were going to unfold. Also, a new shooting was linked to that gunman, Amedy Coulibaly, who was killed Friday along with the brothers behind a massacre at satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo in nearly simultaneous raids by security forces.

"Today, Paris is the capital of the world," said French President Francois Hollande . "Our entire country will rise up toward something better."

Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas were among the leaders attending, as were top representatives of Russia and Ukraine.

Rallies were also planned in London, Madrid and New York -- all attacked by Al Qaeda-linked extremists -- as well as Cairo, Sydney, Stockholm, Tokyo and elsewhere.

"We are all Charlie, we are all police, we are all Jews of France," Prime Minister Manuel Valls declared on Saturday, referring to the victims of the attacks that included employees at Charlie Hebdo, shoppers at a kosher grocery and three police officers.

The three days of terror began Wednesday when brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi stormed the newsroom of Charlie Hebdo, killing 12 people. Al Qaeda's branch in Yemen said it directed the attack by the masked gunmen to avenge the honor of the Prophet Muhammad, a frequent target of the weekly's satire. On Thursday, police said Coulibaly killed a policewoman on the outskirts of Paris and on Friday, the attackers converged.

While the Kouachi brothers holed up in a printing plant near Charles de Gaulle airport, Coulibaly seized hostages inside a kosher market. It all ended at dusk Friday with near-simultaneous raids at the printing plant and the market that left all three gunmen dead. Four hostages at the market were also killed.

Five people who were held in connection with the attacks were freed late Saturday, leaving no one in custody, according to the Paris prosecutor's office. The widow of the man who attacked the kosher market is still being sought and was last traced near the Turkey-Syrian border.

Early Sunday, police in Germany detained two men suspected of an arson attack against a newspaper that republished the Charlie Hebdo cartoons. No one was injured in that attack.

"The terrorists want two things: they want to scare us and they want to divide us. We must do the opposite. We must stand up and we must stay united," French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius told French TV channel iTele on Sunday.

It was France's deadliest terrorist attack in decades, and the country remains on high alert while investigators determine whether the attackers were part of a larger extremist network. More than 5,500 police and soldiers were being deployed on Sunday across France, about half of them to protect the march. The others were guarding synagogues, mosques, schools and other sites around France.

"I hope that we will again be able to say we are happy to be Jews in France," said Haim Korsia, the chief rabbi in France, who planned to attend the rally.

"I hope that at the end of the day everyone is united. Everyone, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists," added Zakaria Moumni, who was at Republique early Sunday. "We are humans first of all. And nobody deserves to be murdered like that. Nobody."

At an international conference in India, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said the world stood with the people of France "not just in anger and in outrage, but in solidarity and commitment to the cause of confronting extremism and in the cause that extremists fear so much and that has always united our countries: freedom."

Posthumous video emerged Sunday of Coulibaly, who prosecutors said was newly linked by ballistics tests to a third shooting -- the Wednesday attack on a jogger in a Paris suburb that left the 32-year-old man gravely injured. In the video, Coulibaly speaks fluent French and broken Arabic, pledging allegiance to the Islamic State group and detailing the terror operation he said was about to unfold.

The Kouachi brothers claimed the attacks were planned and financed by Al Qaeda in Yemen.

----------


## Lucille

http://wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.6273




> Quote of the Day: "It is self-evident that if a writer who specialized in overtly anti-black or anti-Semitic screeds had been murdered for their ideas, there would be no widespread calls to republish their trash in ‘solidarity’ with their free speech rights.” Glenn Greenwald from article in the Intercept.


Great point.

----------


## juleswin

> http://wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.6273
> 
> 
> 
> Great point.


Great find. The same goes for anti LGBT, anti woman, anti disabled etc etc. Shoot, I had a few more items to list when I started to reply but I just cant remember them now. The problem is that the mainstream journos have picked the groups deemed protecting and Muslims ain't on the list.

So please spare me this "we are here to protect free speech" cos none of these people would be no where to be found if the offended group had been gays, jews, blacks/other racial minorities, women and the disabled.

----------


## Lucille

> *Whew-boy! The Frogs have gone-n-done it now!
> 
> They're marching and waving signs.........Maybe next they'll write SWLOD's....*
> 
> How many more war-dollars is the US going to be called on to print?
> 
> How many more US soldiers are going to be dispatched?
> 
> *
> 'We are Charlie': Tens of thousands march to honor victims of Paris attack*


LOL

http://www.theburningplatform.com/20...fying-nothing/




> *The politicians fear for their power, status, control, and wealth. Rallies, marches, fiery speeches, platitudes, and propaganda are nothing but sound and fury, signifying nothing. The murders of 17 people in France will be used by politicians and government control freaks to further reduce our freedoms and liberties. The fact that 21 people are shot on average every three days in Chicago doesnt enter the picture. Our controllers seek more control over our lives.* Maybe more gun controls will fix the problem. Didnt the terrorists know that automatic weapons are illegal in France? 
> 
> This Fourth Turning is rapidly intensifying. The right wing party in France will now gain more supporters. Germany and Sweden are powder kegs. The next leg down in this global debt crisis will ignite the most violent portion of this Fourth Turning. Then the sound, fury, blood, and death will signify something. The sweeping away of the existing social order.

----------


## devil21

Shocker here (not) but the aftermath of this event is all pointing to more Syria intervention.

http://www.euronews.com/2015/01/11/f...iene-in-syria/




> The suspected accomplice in the Paris terrorist attacks is believed to be in Syria, having passed through Turkey early this month.
> 
> Hayat Boumeddiene  the partner of Amedy Coulibaly, one of the dead gunmen  is described by police as armed and dangerous.
> 
> French police launched an intensive search for the 26-year-old, who at one stage was believed to have taken part in the attack on the Jewish supermarket in Paris.
> 
> more at link


'ISIS', Syria, false flags.....all roads are leading to Damascus.  They want Assad out soooooo bad.  They'll keep making each false flag worse and worse until they get it.

----------


## moostraks

> Yes, evil men have done evil things in the suppossed name of what is right.
> 
> The difference you seem to not understand is that when the person who does this is a Christian, they are indeed a Christian in name only and do not follow Jesus Christ.  But when a person does this who is a Muslim, they in fact are doing exactly what their leader and founder of their religion has admonished.


Regarding this nonsense way of thinking, ran across this article this morning:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-ahmed-merabet




> Ahmed Merabet, the police officer gunned down in the Charlie Hebdo attack, was killed in an act of barbarity by false Muslims his brother said in a moving tribute on Saturday, where he also appealed for unity and tolerance...
> 
> 'My brother was Muslim and he was killed by two terrorists, by two false Muslims,' he said. 'Islam is a religion of peace and love. As far as my brothers death is concerned it was a waste. He was very proud of the name Ahmed Merabet, proud to represent the police and of defending the values of the Republic  liberty, equality, fraternity.'...
> 
> 
> As news spread that the gunned down policeman was a Muslim, the hashtag #JeSuisAhmed began spreading on Twitter in solidarity. One user, identified as @Aboujahjah, said: 'I am not Charlie, I am Ahmed the dead cop. Charlie ridiculed my faith and culture and I died defending his right to do so.'

----------


## jonhowe

> http://wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.6273
> 
> 
> 
> Great point.


Being black is not a belief and is something you're born with. Islam is a religion one chooses and it deserves to be mocked, like all other silly things.


Also, to say they 'specialized' in anti-Islam cartoons is a bit misleading. That is not their main focus, only a handful of issues do it. Most of their cartoons mock french politics and society. Disappointed in greenwald here.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

Few misc headlines in international media related to this news.

*Hamas Condemns Paris Killings Saying There's 'No Justification'*

 
A   Palestinian girl waves Palestinian and French flags during a protest   against the attack in Paris on satirical French newspaper Charlie Hebdo.   | Photo: Reuters
                                                                                                                                              Published  11 January 2015   

                                                                                                                                                                                 Palestinian rebel group Hamas Sunday  condemned the  deadly attacks in France last week week saying there was  no  “justification for killing innocents.”

"(Hamas) stresses that its position on the latest  events in Paris is in  line with the statement issued by  the International Union of Muslim  Scholars which condemned the attack  on the Charlie Hebdo newspaper and  that any differences in opinion are  no justification for killing  innocents," Hamas said in a rare statement  in French.
                                                                                                                                                                 During a 50-day war with Israel in 2014, more than 2,100  Palestinians were killed, many of which were civilians.  

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/new...0111-0004.html


*Hollande asked Netanyahu not to attend Paris memorial march*

*Absence sought as part  of  attempt to keep Israeli-Palestinian conflict out of European show of   unity; After Netanyahu insisted on coming, French made it clear Abbas   would be invited as well.*

                                                                                                                                                            By                                                                                                                                                                                   Barak Ravid                                                                                                                                         |                                                                                                                                 Jan. 12, 2015 

Jewish, Muslim heads join millions at Paris rally against racism, terror

4 French Jewish terror victims to be buried in Jerusalem

                                                                                                                                                                French President Francois Hollande conveyed a message to   Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the weekend asking him not to   come to Paris to take part in the march against terror on Sunday,   according to an Israeli source who was privy to the contacts between the   Elysees Palace and the Prime Minister’s Office in Jerusalem. The fact   that this message had been conveyed was first reported by Channel 2.                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 After the French  government began to send invitations to world leaders  to participate in  the rally against terror, Hollande’s national security  adviser,  Jacques Audibert, contacted his Israeli counterpart, Yossi  Cohen, and  said that Hollande would prefer that Netanyahu not attend,  the source  said.                                                  

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.636557





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytKibqRin8
*
'Bruised and defeated' girlfriend of murdered Charlie Hebdo editor  will NOT attend his funeral after his family publicly disowned her and  claimed they were not in a relationship*

Jeannette Bougrab, 41, claimed she was 'partner' of Charlie Hebdo editor
But family of Stephane Charbonnier 'Charb' have formally denied thisThey have asked that she does not speak about respected editor againFormer politician Bougrab talked of her pride at him 'dying on his feet'Picture has emerged of Bougrab with her 10-year-old daughter and CharbCharb was one of 12 people murdered by Said and Cherif Kouachi 
Published:   09:04 EST, 12 January 2015

A ‘bruised and defeated’ Jeannette Bougrab will not attend the funeral of her lover Charb – the slain editor of Charlie Hebdo.
Her  decision comes after an extraordinary intervention by his family who  denied the couple had any committed relationship and demanded she ceased  speaking about him.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ationship.html


*French police commissioner 'shot himself dead in his office after meeting relatives of a Charlie Hebdo victim'*


*Helric Fredou shot himself on Wednesday night in Limoges, France**He had been the deputy director of the regional police since 2012* *Commissioner Fredou was said to have been 'depressed' and overworked*  
 Published:   10:20 EST, 12 January 2015   
A  French police commissioner has reportedly taken his own life after  meeting the relatives of a victim murdered in the Charlie Hebdo  massacre. 
Helric  Fredou, 45, shot himself in his office with his police-issue gun on  Wednesday night in Limoges, a city in central France, according to  France 3. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2906808/Police-commissioner-shot-dead-office-meeting-relatives-Charlie-Hebdo-victim-claim-French-TV-news.html

----------


## Suzanimal

> Paris suspect Said Kouachi was roommate of 'underwear bomber': Reports
> 
> *Said Kouachi, one of the two gunmen involved in last week's massacre at the offices of the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo in Paris, once told a Yemeni reporter that he had lived with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian "underwear bomber" behind the failed 2009 terror plot on a Detroit-bound airliner.*
> 
> Mohammed al-Kibsi, the Yemeni journalist, told the Associated Press that he met Kouachi in early 2010 in Sanaa, Yemen's capital, where Abdulmutallab  who was later convicted of trying to blow up the Northwest Airlines flight on Christmas day 2009 using explosives concealed in his underwear  was studying Arabic.
> 
> Al-Kibsi said he asked Kouachi if he knew Abdulmutallab.
> 
> "Surprisingly, he said that, 'Yes,' he knew him and that he lived with him in the same residence," al-Kibsi said Monday. "(Abdulmutallab) had left three or four months before we met Said."
> ...


http://news.yahoo.com/kouachi-underw...184021010.html

----------


## Danke

> Few misc headlines in international media related to this news.
> 
> *Hamas Condemns Paris Killings Saying There's 'No Justification'*
> 
>  
> A   Palestinian girl waves Palestinian and French flags during a protest   against the attack in Paris on satirical French newspaper Charlie Hebdo.   | Photo: Reuters
>                                                                                                                                               Published  11 January 2015   
> 
>                                                                                                                                                                                  Palestinian rebel group Hamas Sunday  condemned the  deadly attacks in France last week week saying there was  no  “justification for killing innocents.”
> ...


Strange $#@!.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Being black is not a belief and is something you're born with. Islam is a religion one chooses and it deserves to be mocked, like all other silly things.
> 
> 
> Also, to say they 'specialized' in anti-Islam cartoons is a bit misleading. That is not their main focus, only a handful of issues do it. Most of their cartoons mock french politics and society. Disappointed in greenwald here.


He's laid a series of rotten eggs lately.

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## devil21

Don't forget the suited man that got the 'underwear bomber' through security and onto an international flight without a passport.  And al-Awlaki dining at the Pentagon after 9/11.

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## enhanced_deficit

> Disappointed in greenwald here.


It is tragic/insane violence. While it may take few more days before all  facts are known about that CH's political stances but do we know if it  took any stance or mocked French interventions/bombings in Islamic lands  or  mocked killing of Islamic children/civilians as a result to provoke thoughts/stir debate? Or  satired zionists for continuing French supported occupation of  Palestiian muslims/christians?

Too early to analyse all key  drivers here  with certainity but on the surface it appears that  in  absence of them  having a critical stance of Western intevention  that resulted in killing/maiming of many thousands of Islamic  children/civilians while taking time to mock their religion would  indicate an inclination to attribute all or most of the "blowback" violence  against West as borne out of "religion" by painting all Islamics as  inherently violent and thus helping hide other bigger drivers of human  nature. IF so, that could indicate somewhat  tribal/communist/collectivist/racial mindset designed to aid a pro war thinking  in public hiding behind selective "free speech".

BTW, a question for you. 

Do you see this attack about as logical/justified as temporarily  "radicalized" US public majority supported invasion of Iraq following  wtc1/2/7 attacks?

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## tangent4ronpaul

In France, over 50 mosques have been attacked since the terrorist attacks.  US MSM ignores it.

-t

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## Weston White

Evidence is now coming out that this was very likely a staged event that was U.S. orchestrated (e.g., the underwear bombing was completely staged).

Said Kouachi Told Yemeni Reporter He Lived With 'Underwear Bomber'
Suspected Paris Shooter Lived with Underwear Bomber in Yemen

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## mosquitobite

> Evidence is now coming out that this was very likely a staged event that was U.S. orchestrated (e.g., the underwear bombing was completely staged).
> 
> Said Kouachi Told Yemeni Reporter He Lived With 'Underwear Bomber'
> Suspected Paris Shooter Lived with Underwear Bomber in Yemen


I have to say, the family of the guy saying that the girl all over TV isn't his girlfriend is pretty bizarre.  So far, nothing had set my triggers off until this article today.

 If you google both names you find NO pictures of them together.  If she wanted to argue back she'd surely have pictures to show them at dinner together, SOMETHING, right?  Instead she just says she won't attend the funeral.

http://news.yahoo.com/jeannette-boug...160121995.html

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## enhanced_deficit

*

France Attacks were False Flag, Says Ex White House Official / WSJ Editor



*



*McCain: Paris Attack Showed ‘Professionalism No Lone Wolf Could Have Carried Out’*
“The nature of that attack showed a degree of professionalism that no lone wolf could have carried out,” McCain said.
“Right now in Syria, they are training people to go back to the  country they came from and commit acts of terror.” the GOP Arizona  senator said, adding that this was also the view of British  intelligence.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/11/mc...ied-out-video/

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## osan

> Yes, evil men have done evil things in the suppossed name of what is right.
> 
> The difference you seem to not understand is that when *the person who does this is a Christian, they are indeed a Christian in name only* and do not follow Jesus Christ.  But when a person does this who is a Muslim, they in fact are doing exactly what their leader and founder of their religion has admonished.


I think I understand whence you are coming, but perhaps you are not seeing the problem with this?

There is no objective standard for being a "Christian".  You may retort that "the bible is the standard", but if so, it is a lousy one... not because the bible is lousy, but because we are lousy at determining the truest meanings contained therein.  This is mainly due to the capricious nature of spoken and written language.  Ten people read a bible passage and I can assure you there are at least 11 different semantic deconstructions.  Written, imperatively dogmatic religious institutions are fraught with this problem precisely because of the deconstruction issues inherent to language itself.  "Thou shalt..." this and "Thous shalt not..." that and "God spake unto X, saying..."  It's a cluster$#@! in its blood.  

Even if every word of the Bible is indeed God's direct communication to the various prophets of yore, we of the latter days are not capable of knowing whether the parse we impart to the words represents God's true will for the ever shifting semantic sands upon which each of us stands, constantly shifting our orientations to the world, our ideas, and each other in order that we not fall to the ground, stricken deaf, mute, and blind for want of sufficient perception.  It's here for anyone to see on a minute-by-minute basis.  We all have watched language shift.  Not a one of us here have not seen it.  This is REALLY important to bring to one's conscious mind, to understand its nature, to accept that it cannot be avoided, and to take the best measures at our personal disposal to protect ourselves from gently and imperceptibly drifting into mine fields.  Oops... too late, methinks.  That is PRECISELY what has happened across the globe, just as it always has, only now with such velocity and violent impulse that within the span of but a few years, any man paying attention can discern, identify, and characterize the ways in which quantum shifts in perception come in almost literal waves of change.  It is quite fascinating, but at the same time it is also eminently dangerous in a world where real monsters lurk.

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## osan

> *
> 
> France Attacks were False Flag, Says Ex White House Official / WSJ Editor*


Am I the only one feeling like he is being gas-lighted?

The whole world is being driven to madness, whether by intention or by pure and perhaps unavoidable accident, it matters not.

I do not see things as ending well.

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## Todd



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## devil21

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-9985047.html




> The Charlie Hebdo massacre may have been the work of an “intelligence agency”, working with the connivance of French authorities, according to Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the far right Front National.
> 
> In an interview with a virulently anti-Western Russian newspaper, Mr Le Pen, 86, gave credence to conspiracy theories circulating on the internet suggesting that the attack was the work of American or Israeli agents seeking to foment a civil war between Islam and the West.
> 
> His comments – only partially retracted in an interview with the French newspaper Le Monde today – provoked outrage amongst French politicians. They will also infuriate Marine Le Pen, his daughter, and successor as leader of the FN, who has been trying to distance the party from her father’s extreme and provocative remarks.
> moreifclick

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