# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Prosperity >  Choose my career path... I can't.

## Kludge

I've been talking to many people... teachers, relatives, forum members... I just can't seem to pick a career. It's very frustrating how irreversible many choices are. If I dislike a career I go to college for, I'm stuck with it while I try to pay off student loans unless I can find an unrelated job with equal or greater pay.

I've already been accepted into a community college which I had intended to go to for 2 years, taking Gen. Ed. courses and then transferring (the college's credits transfer to just about everywhere in-state). My ACT score was 26, but my cumulative GPA is ~2.8 and my attendance record is a joke, with well over 100 absences over my high school career. I live with my mother, and she is well-off, but not rich, though she has a considerable reserve of wealth in investments and MMAs. I unlawfully (though my accountant insisted that the IRS wouldn't care) started my own Roth IRA account at the age of 16 and have about $2,500 in there now, as well as about $1,000 in savings. I am 100% debt-free at the moment, and my mom has offered to pick up most of my college fees (my first two years are covered by scholarships. She has offered to pay for tuition of my last two years, but I'm on my own for books/rent/living expenses, which is a great deal, of course). She has also offered to loan me start-up costs for a business with no interest if I can present a decent business plan if I decide not to go to college.

List of job/career choices:

*High School gov't, social studies (history), economics, and/or psychology teacher

*Pros - Stable job. Subjects I'm very passionate about and something I truly want to do. Meaningful job. Good benefits. Relatively high amount of free time. I'm a strong public speaker. I consider myself to be very open-minded, which is essential in keeping indoctrination out of education. Relatively free to do my job as I please.

Cons - Poor initial pay. I'd have to be a member of a Union. For the sake of employability, I'd probably have to minor in Spanish. Poor job outlook in my state. Standardized education and absurd gov't mandates I'd have to follow. I'm occasionally sadistic when dealing with morons. I'd have to deal with 400+ sophomoric $#@!s every day.

*Full-Time Political Activist

*Pros - I'm a strong public Speaker. No college required. Free to work how I please. Very little pressure. Permitted much creative freedom in how I raise capital for myself. Able to become a significant proponent of liberty. May permit me much free time. I'd be able to meet people I respect very much.

Cons - Terribly unstable personal financial situation. Requires extreme devotion. Requires me to take big risks as I start new projects. May not permit me any free time. I'm occasionally sadistic when dealing with morons. I'd have to deal with 400+ sophomoric $#@!s every day.

*Business-Owner* (either involving some new method of selling "ideas", sales of computers and parts [the only non-chain PC supplier in the area is shockingly overpriced and carries very little stock], or perhaps a "music store" [instruments, accessories, sheet music, etc.)

Pros - Free to do business as the government permits me. Guaranteed no-interest start-up loan. Land is practically free (errr, as in being without value, not in that it's liberated) where I live. Can probably create (directly and indirectly) the most wealth (not necessarily for myself) as a businessman. I enjoy business and innovating. Unlikely that I'd need to attend college.

Cons - Free to do business only as the government permits me. Very risky. Current economic situation may make for a tough first few years. I'm a poor negotiator when I'm working for myself. I'd have to deal with 40+ sophomoric $#@!s every day.

*Night-Shift Shelf-Stocker At A Local Grocery Store

*Pros - Stable job (store is in a strong financial position). Lots of free time. Time working is based on efficiency. No college required. Within walking distance. Not too many sophomoric $#@!s. Easy work.

Cons - Just above minimum wage. Unlikely that there is any future beyond the position of night-shift shelf-stocker. If asked, I may be ashamed of my job and worry that it'd discredit me were it brought up.

*Accountant*

Pros - Not too many sophomoric $#@!s. Good career outlook and relatively good pay. Meaningful work. Many colleges offer relatively cheap programs to become an accountant.

Cons - I have doubts that I could be interested in accounting, and if I'm not interested, I'll be a mediocre worker, at best.

*Purchaser

*Pros - Meaningful work. I enjoy doing business. When not negotiating on my own behalf, I'm quite a good negotiator. I enjoy the kind of shopping which would be involved. Relatively free to work how I please.

Cons - Poor career outlook. Many purchasers work on a contract and are constantly changing employers. Significant amount of pressure.


I included Sprinkler System Installer and Venture Capitalist because I tested over years in high school, and they consistently (one test/year for four years always showing the same results) contended that they are careers which I would be most compatible with. 


Insight will be greatly appreciated

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## acptulsa

I have no meaningful advice.  But I know someone who does:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpos...0&postcount=37

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## Kludge

> I have no meaningful advice.  But I know someone who does:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpos...0&postcount=37


I'm including that in option #2. I just can't bring myself to say that I'm considering becoming a politician, and besides, I don't have a nifty epic background like most politicians -- no adversity I'd like to mention. Oh -- and I'm really too "crude" a speaker to become anything significant in politics outside of grassroots.

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## angelatc

If you can major in Accounting *and* IT systems you'll be set for life.

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## nate895

I think you and I (Jr. in HS) should start a liberty-minded political firm. I am in PoliSci right now at my local JC, and I intend to have my AA by the time I graduate from HS.

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## pcosmar

*Sprinkler System Installer*

Just cause I tend to be practical.

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## Kludge

> *Sprinkler System Installer*
> 
> Just cause I tend to be practical.


Hmmm... Do you think it refers to fire-snuffing sprinklers or garden-watering sprinklers?

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## LATruth

I said business owner, you can still be a political activist while owning your own business. 2 birds with one stone, and something to fall back on. Still continue your college career, MBA with a minor in political sciences?

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## Kotin

business owner..

I think you would be best at this.. 


take your computer making skills.. that has potential.. but I think you have the creativity for something like this and would be too bored doing something menial and redundant..

 a business where you run with a good a idea and really get to make all the decisions sounds suited for you.

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## pcosmar

> Hmmm... Do you think it refers to fire-snuffing sprinklers or garden-watering sprinklers?


Could be both and agricultural too.
Honest labor, an established industry, a needed service.
Like I said,
Practical.

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## Working Poor

I voted own your own business

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## Original_Intent

If I was starting my career right now, I would get into farming/ranching.

Very hard work, but well placed for TSHTF.

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## rancher89

Fire sprinkler installer

Many reasons and I may be partial since I own my own company that does just the design work, but both my husband I have worked in the field and sales doing fire spinkler work.

1)  This work is physical, but it is also very demanding mentally.  You need to be able to read blueprints (still called that even though they are usually in black and white now.)  Being able to visualize the shape and turns a building makes when you see the drawings is a big asset.

2)  It pays very well, once you get past the apprentice stage, but if there is an extreme shortage of workers in your area, even an apprentice can make a decent wage.

3)  There is an apparent shortage of people going into this technical field, I hear it all the time, contractors need good quality people to put sprinkler systems in.  The old school installers are getting to be just that, old and retiring soon.  The same could be said for layout technicians, especially talented ones.  

That's the other option.  Get a job installing sprinkler systems and go to school part time to get your credits for becoming a layout technician (LT), aka to everyone outside the business = designer.  I won't go into all the details, but a good, honest, hardworking LT can make a VERY good living, especially if you get your "rating" up to Level 4 NICET, then you can write your own ticket.  People in sprinkler sales do make pretty good money, but the competition for those jobs is intense and usually hard to get.  Sprinkler sales experience is usually required before a management position is possible, except Design Manager.

PM me if you are interested.  Every commercial building over a certain size is required to be sprinklered, even those existing building out there.  The existing buildings don't usually get sprinklered unless there is a major renovation or the insurance company requires it.  Big field, lots of work, except for right now since construction is slow.  Might be a good time to get in on the ground floor though.

Hope this helps, I really like my job a lot.

Pcosmar--how do you know about fire sprinklers?  We are a rare breed, and some say inbred--lol   usually we have all worked for the same company at one time or another if we're in the same region....And you are right about lawn sprinklers to a point, but no one is required to put a lawn sprinkler system in....

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## Kludge

> Fire sprinkler installer


Okay. Now, I'm very interested. Do I need formal training to start working as a sprinkler system installer? I'm guessing there are businesses which specialize in that where I would apprentice? To become a LT, would I go to a vocational school???

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## Josh_LA

me chose HST, because

1. You work the least
2. You see and interact with you people
3. usually comes with benefits (probably union forced, according to John Stossel)

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## Bryan

Here's my $0.02-- it depends upon what you really want. Two major paths- one, you have a desk job and sit in an office. Some really like this- some hate it. Option 2: field work. You may be on the go so, meeting new people, going to different places. Some like this- some hate it.

IMO, you are best being your own boss- but just being a business owner doesn't just happen from nothing. You need to be an expert in that business- from the bottom up.

As an example- you could go to school for two years and study business and accounting- and on the side be working as a sprinkler system installer - keep this up until you learn the ins and outs of the sprinkler business. The start to work on your own, leveraging your business skills learned in school and build a business where you have people working for you installing sprinklers. 

There are all kinds of fields you can do this in- and it does make for success- so keep thinking on it.

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## brandon

Other. 

Most of the "poll" (It's not really a poll... ) options are not realistic. 

One doesn't just become a venture capitalist, career politician, business owner, etc without already having a large amount of money saved up and a vast amount of knowledge and experience in the related field. The only realistic options on the are poll are high school teacher, shelf stocker, and accountant. And I would not recommend any of these, because you will get paid terribly (well maybe not being an accountant if you can find the right clients) and you are selling yourself short (You're obviously a bright kid.) 

You are a good writer and I know you are good with computers and technology. Goto school to become a computer engineer, electrical engineer, or a programmer. You will make good money, have job opportunities for the rest of your life, and you will most likely be naturally good at it.

How are you at math?

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## Kludge

> How are you at math?


I can add, subtract, multiply, and divide. Beyond that.... Well, I imagine there's about a 50/50 chance I'll get a basic algebra question correct.



I didn't make the poll just thinking that I would just "become" something, but should have labeled it better by asking what should be my career goal.

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## Danke

Forum moderator.

or Lion Tamer.

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## brandon

> I can add, subtract, multiply, and divide. Beyond that.... Well, I imagine there's about a 50/50 chance I'll get a basic algebra question correct.


Sounds like you're better at probability than algebra. 

You're 18, right?

I went to community college at that age. I switched majors about 5 times while I was there. Couldn't make up my damn mind. Finally settled on electrical engineering and transferred to a four year university. I don't regret my decision at all.

My point: Community college is a great idea. Take a bunch of different classes for a year and find out what really interests you. Then consider if there are job opportunities in that field.

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## rancher89

> Here's my $0.02-- it depends upon what you really want. Two major paths- one, you have a desk job and sit in an office. Some really like this- some hate it. Option 2: field work. You may be on the go so, meeting new people, going to different places. Some like this- some hate it.
> 
> IMO, you are best being your own boss- but just being a business owner doesn't just happen from nothing. You need to be an expert in that business- from the bottom up.
> 
> As an example- you could go to school for two years and study business and accounting- and on the side be working as a sprinkler system installer - keep this up until you learn the ins and outs of the sprinkler business. The start to work on your own, leveraging your business skills learned in school and build a business where you have people working for you installing sprinklers. 
> 
> There are all kinds of fields you can do this in- and it does make for success- so keep thinking on it.


Bryan is right here, Kludge, you have to feel it out, I never knew what I really wanted to do until I stumbled on it late in life (my 40's).  One thing that I've found out is that it's never too late to change your job description!  I've done a bunch different things in my life --Forest fire fighter, insurance typist, medic in the Army, waitress, cook, sous-chef, caterer, restaurant management, dry cleaning, stay at home mom, student, layout technician (sprinklers) sales (sprinklers) small business owner (sprinklers.) 

I'm creative, outspoken, self-driven and a bit anal-retentive.  I also can visualize objects/buildings in my head from a drawing.  I think taking any kind of training in the engineering field and doing field work during the day in that field, will be very worthwhile, if you fit the profile.

Don't sweat it too much, I worried for years that I was under-achieving, turns out I was having a wonderful life experience, meeting interesting people, gathering great stories to tell the young'uns later in life!  Have fun, enjoy life when you can.

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## Bryan

> Forum moderator.
> 
> or Lion Tamer.


Bah. Pay is bad. In both cases.

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## pcosmar

Ok, In my serious voice.
I never asked your age, but  am guessing young. I can give you some examples I know.
Eldest Brother.
Joined the Navy did a tour, Trained Electronics Tech. And Hated it. Had several jobs and finally went to work for a Police Dept. Fixing Radios. Hated it till he retired.  But during that time he went to a community college and learned lots of stuff he  enjoyed. The job paid him well enough to enjoy his hobbies.

next Brother, Went to College, Poli-Sci. Worked the Lake Freighters from deck hand to pilot, bought a home in the Keys and became a plumber. Still is but will soon retire.

Myself . Droped out in my senior year got GED and joined the Army. Been a drifter, outlaw, and learned to bump dents. Made fair money as a Bodyman/Painter and now own a small farm.

All that to say, none of us planed a "career", but all of us have found success in our paths.
Follow your heart, follow your feet, and work hard at whatever presents itself.
Never stop learning, and don't fear change.
Best of luck.

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## nayjevin

Kludge you should be a professional john stossel mustache portal designer with a side order of custom computing.

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## Kludge

Individually, you guys are fantastically helpful.

Collectively, you're making this even more difficult 

Typical.

(Thanks for the replies, though!)

How's this for an until-something-changes plan?

I'll work as a shelf-stocker throughout college. In my spare time, I'll assemble/repair PCs as a hobby. In college, I will be seeking a teaching degree (Idunno which subjects to go with, but a minor in Spanish is practically essential, especially considering that I'll probably need to move into a Southern state for a job). A person today directed me toward a Teach For America program, which looks to be a great opportunity (if I'm lucky, the school I teach at will be so poor that they don't have textbooks, which is frankly a waste of money). If I need to, I can fall back on my teaching degree to go into social work. Eventually, I'd still like to own a business of some sort, which I could operate from my classroom (I think you'd be surprised by how many teachers actually do this).

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## Josh_LA

> Individually, you guys are fantastically helpful.
> 
> Collectively, you're making this even more difficult 
> 
> Typical.
> 
> (Thanks for the replies, though!)
> 
> How's this for an until-something-changes plan?
> ...


In this day, if you're a person who has student debts to pay, get a job and pay it away before taking more risks is my advice.

I've told you the kind of things that I've done (and still do) to make money, you should know by now whether you're willing to be a business owner.

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## heavenlyboy34

Teaching?   Here's some words of wisdom for you that helped me as a youngin'- "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach." 




> Individually, you guys are fantastically helpful.
> 
> Collectively, you're making this even more difficult 
> 
> Typical.
> 
> (Thanks for the replies, though!)
> 
> How's this for an until-something-changes plan?
> ...

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## nate895

> Teaching?   Here's some words of wisdom for you that helped me as a youngin'- "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach."


"...Those who can't teach, teach P.E."

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## Spider-Man

I think you should be a professional DOUCHEBAG.

Oh wait, YOU ALREADY ARE.

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## Original_Intent

> Teaching?   Here's some words of wisdom for you that helped me as a youngin'- "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach."


What do you mean when you were a young un. I thought you were still a kid - I mean "heavenlyboy" kinda sounds - young. How old are you? 34? Or were you born in 1934?

The funny thing is I thought Kludge was older, like at least my age (45). What's LibertyEagle, a teenager?

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## Josh_LA

> What's LibertyEagle, a teenager?


she said she's read JBS material for over 30 years,.... did she?

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## ramallamamama

Get into farming, I hear it's a real growth industry.

Jim Rogers Farmers Will Drive Lamborghinis pt 1/2 Mar-09-09

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## Kludge

> "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach."


Seriously, I don't know why we even bother to listen to RP or Mises. They obviously can't "do". HB34 has a quote from the Internet that says so.

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## nate895

> Seriously, I don't know why we even bother to listen to RP or Mises. They obviously can't "do". HB34 has a quote from the Internet that says so.


It is true of many public school teachers. Private schools, especially universities, do have some legitimate geniuses who teach at them.

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## Kludge

> It is true of *many* public school teachers.


But not all. I've had some fantastic teachers who guided me here.

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## JoshLowry

I voted Business Owner.  You should sell "illegal" drugs.

Kludge 'Capone' Stossel

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## UnReconstructed

You can always drive a truck

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## Dripping Rain

business owner. i cant specify. you need to determine what business best fits where you live

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## Kludge

> I voted Business Owner.  You should sell "illegal" drugs.
> 
> Kludge 'Capone' Stossel


!!!

I hate drugs.

Never touched them, and I certainly will not sell them!!! Your suggestion is disgusting and offensive.




> You can always drive a truck


Haha... The day after I got my learner's permit, my dad had me drive from Michigan to the coast of Virginia in one sitting starting at 6 PM. I almost rear-ended a semi-truck about 6 hours in going down this crazy spiral highway in West Virginia.

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## Dripping Rain

> I voted Business Owner.  You should sell "illegal" drugs.
> 
> Kludge 'Capone' Stossel


lmao

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## JoshLowry

> !!!
> 
> I hate drugs.
> 
> Never touched them, and I certainly will not sell them!!! Your suggestion is disgusting and offensive.


Do you find alcohol disgusting and offensive?  They are the same thing.

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## Kludge

> Do you find alcohol disgusting and offensive?  They are the same thing.


The government says they are okay.

After all, I respect the law by the government!

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## JoshLowry

> The government says they are okay.
> 
> After all, I respect the law by the government!


I bet you would respect _jus primae noctis_ if obama implemented it.

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## UnReconstructed

> !!!
> 
> I hate drugs.
> 
> Never touched them, and I certainly will not sell them!!! Your suggestion is disgusting and offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha... The day after I got my learner's permit, my dad had me drive from Michigan to the coast of Virginia in one sitting starting at 6 PM. I almost rear-ended a semi-truck about 6 hours in going down this crazy spiral highway in West Virginia.


I made my post in jest but seriously, a CDL is a good plan B, or even C because you _can_ always drive a truck... generally.

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## Kludge

> I bet you would respect _jus primae noctis_ if obama implemented it.


Indeed. I love the government and all it produces for and allows of society.

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## JoshLowry

I;m mellllttinnngg

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## satchelmcqueen

i say high school teacher. 

they get way more time off than any regular job out there. they get paid twice or more the amount of any regular job out there. they also get way more respect than they deserve, than most jobs out there. and the most important part, they have just about the least physical effort put forth than any job out there for the same pay. 


i had a former high school teacher tell me that his job was a joke compared to any regular job, including, a worker at mac donalds, because he had done both in his time.  he was just in awe after 25 years that he was making the money he was making to do the little bit of a job he had at teaching students in his classes at the local high school. 


do the school teacher job!!!

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## pcosmar

> Indeed. I love the government and all it produces for and allows of society.


You need to spend more time with outlaws. Next time you're north of "da bridge", stop by.

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## nate895

> But not all. I've had some fantastic teachers who guided me here.


So have I, but most suck.

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## Josh_LA

> Indeed. I love the government and all it produces for and allows of society.


at least you're honest about it.

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## Danke

> !!!
> 
> I hate drugs.
> 
> Never touched them, and I certainly will not sell them!!! Your suggestion is disgusting and offensive.


Since you are still young, you could be a narc at a high school.

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## Bruno

Author

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## nate895

> Author


That's mine, along with American History professor at a good college.

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## Kludge

> i say high school teacher. 
> 
> they get way more time off than any regular job out there. they get paid twice or more the amount of any regular job out there. they also get way more respect than they deserve, than most jobs out there. and the most important part, they have just about the least physical effort put forth than any job out there for the same pay. 
> 
> 
> i had a former high school teacher tell me that his job was a joke compared to any regular job, including, a worker at mac donalds, because he had done both in his time.  he was just in awe after 25 years that he was making the money he was making to do the little bit of a job he had at teaching students in his classes at the local high school. 
> 
> 
> do the school teacher job!!!


I think it depends on what the teacher does. Some teachers simply shouldn't be teaching because... they don't. They do what is required of them by the government instead of what they ought to be doing, which is educating. If a teacher relies solely on textbook questions and videos, there's no need for that person to be in that position and they should be fired. I know a number of teachers who do that and they disgust me (I'm being serious here, unlike before with Josh ).

The first thing I would do would be to shelf all the textbooks and write up my own lessons and activities, focusing on topics which demand critical thinking skills and which question conventional wisdom to interest students. I want them to focus in class since I don't believe in homework, and passionately hate "busywork".

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## youngbuck

This thread is interesting because I'm basically in the same boat as Kludge.  

Time is of the essence...

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## nate895

> I think it depends on what the teacher does. Some teachers simply shouldn't be teaching because... they don't. They do what is required of them by the government instead of what they ought to be doing, which is educating. If a teacher relies solely on textbook questions and videos, there's no need for that person to be in that position and they should be fired. I know a number of teachers who do that and they disgust me (I'm being serious here, unlike before with Josh ).
> 
> The first thing I would do would be to shelf all the textbooks and write up my own lessons and activities, focusing on topics which demand critical thinking skills and which question conventional wisdom to interest students. I want them to focus in class since I don't believe in homework, and passionately hate "busywork".


I intend to be a professor of history, and I will write my own textbook which has the added benefit of giving me extra money because I can demand they pay the exorbitant price for my textbook or risk flunking. My class would focus on essay writing based on the students' opinions, because that way the smart ones will actually remember what they learn because it will reinforce their already held opinions or lead them to new ones. The dumb ones don't matter anyway.

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## youngbuck

> I intend to be a professor of history, and I will write my own textbook which has the added benefit of giving me extra money because I can demand they pay the exorbitant price for my textbook or risk flunking. My class would focus on essay writing based on the students' opinions, because that way the smart ones will actually remember what they learn because it will reinforce their already held opinions or lead them to new ones. The dumb ones don't matter anyway.


LOL, that's a funny summary of your objective.

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## Kludge

> I intend to be a professor of history, and I will write my own textbook which has the added benefit of giving me extra money because I can demand they pay the exorbitant price for my textbook or risk flunking. My class would focus on essay writing based on the students' opinions, because that way the smart ones will actually remember what they learn because it will reinforce their already held opinions or lead them to new ones. The dumb ones don't matter anyway.


Ooooh... I'm so interested in listening to an "average" class discuss issues after giving them information and not attaching a party label to it. I'm interested in observing whether or not political affiliation tends to differ between the AP and "average" class, too.

My government teacher did a cool activity with us in which we would present a bill in mock congress, discuss it, and vote on it. Of course, that was when, while I was ripping apart a suggestion that Walmart had to bow the will of government, my teacher insisted that Walmart is public property because anyone could walk into it. It was difficult not to call him a moron when I told him Walmart had every right to deny people service and even entry if they so choose. "They can't tell some people they can't enter! That's discrimination!" I still liked the class, though.

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## nate895

> Ooooh... I'm so interested in listening to an "average" class discuss issues after giving them information and not attaching a party label to it. I'm interested in observing whether or not political affiliation tends to differ between the AP and "average" class, too.
> 
> My government teacher did a cool activity with us in which we would present a bill in mock congress, discuss it, and vote on it. Of course, that was when, while I was ripping apart a suggestion that Walmart had to bow the will of government, my teacher insisted that Walmart is public property because anyone could walk into it. It was difficult not to call him a moron when I told him Walmart had every right to deny people service and even entry if they so choose. "They can't tell some people they can't enter! That's discrimination!" I still liked the class, though.


In my experience, the difference between advanced and standard classes (which I base off of my experience at my local JC) is that advanced classes tend to actually have political divisions, in standard classes the most you'll get is a couple of kids with talking points from their parents. 

At school, I am the "smart guy" and so not many other students argue with me. If there is an argument, it is either between me and a teacher (I once argued that Alaska was larger than Texas because my teacher thought Texas was bigger area-wise), or someone assigned to oppose me and myself.

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## raystone

Assisting a nihilist with a life choice is enabling.   Send him back to his therapy group.

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## Kludge

> Assisting a nihilist with a life choice is enabling.   Send him back to his therapy group.

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