# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Successful gasoline to propane generator conversion

## Anti Federalist

So, last week I ordered the SEK - 4A and SEK - 5A propane conversion kits from Century Fuel Products.

http://www.usgemini.com/Generator-Conversion-Kit.html

$240 for everything.

They arrived today, and after about a half an hour positioning everything and making up fittings, and another half hour or 45 minutes to install, and the generator is up and running on propane power.



5000 watts of heaters and 250 watts of halogen light.



The low pressure demand regulator. The large set screw with lock nut at the top is the demand needle valve. You manually set this for optimum run at peak load and then lock it in place. The empty set screw sockets on the top of the rail are for the gasoline tank, which is removable on this model. These two holes required drilling through the frame. 



This is not the best shot of this, if anybody is really curious, let me know and I'll take a better picture. What you are looking at is the "injector block", basically a circular jet ring, milled out of aluminum, that bolts directly ahead of the stock carb with extension studs. 

This was the only problem that I ran into, these extension studs were threaded metric and I needed 1/4" x 20. No worries, a few minutes with a tap and die had them ready to go.

The low pressure gas from the demand regulator is fed in here. Important to note is that all of the stock gasoline carb equipment is still in place. I have the tank removed for ease of work and clarity, but all that has to happen is to bolt the tank back on and hook up the fuel line to run regular gas. All the original carb parts, choke and air filter stay in place and will function normally.



Another view of the demand regulator. The kit came with black iron closed nipples, elbows and a brass ball valve to make a shut off connection at this point, but I connected the line from the tank regulator directly to the demand regulator to cut down on weight, connections that might leak and things to get hung up on. Since it was going directly to the portable tank with a shut off valve three feet away, I didn't see the need unless I hook it up to the low pressure feed line off my 100 gallon propane tank. I don't anticipate using that unless $#@! really hits the fan.

So far, runs like a champ, and now I can store emergency generator fuel without having to worry about it going bad in three months like the gasoline will nowadays.

I highly recommend this kit.

Post in the thread if you have any questions, I'll try to answer them

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## Carson

Nice!

I remember checking out a friends old milk truck that was converted over. I don't remember all of what was involved but it seemed very simple. I think it was like you say, everything still there but it I'm thinking it had a copper line running the propane gas in through the top of the carburetor. I also sort of remember the back of the milk truck littered with empty propane tanks.


Now that I think about it, it all seemed so simple a person could, how do I say it,,, MacGyver a system together for a car if you had too.

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## Anti Federalist

> Nice!
> 
> I remember checking out a friends old milk truck that was converted over. I don't remember all of what was involved but it seemed very simple. I think it was like you say, everything still there but it I'm thinking it had a copper line running the propane gas in through the top of the carburetor. I also sort of remember the back of the milk truck littered with empty propane tanks.
> 
> 
> Now that I think about it, it all seemed so simple a person could, how do I say it,,, MacGyver a system together for a car if you had too.


Yes, you could just run a line straight down the air breather or intake manifold or carb and make it work, but it would be unsafe and waste a lot of fuel.

The demand regulator is the key component in all of this.

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## bunklocoempire

You the man.  Thanks for sharing!  Definitely looking into this.

I had a buddy who's dad had a Corvair with a propane conversion back in the early 80's.  Never got to ride in it or really check it out though.

I did the math for a Jeep conversion (258) out here but the expected mpg and cost of propane doesn't add up.  For an emergency/occasional generator it would make sense for us.

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## Carson

> Yes, you could just run a line straight down the air breather or intake manifold or carb and make it work, but it would be unsafe and waste a lot of fuel.
> 
> The demand regulator is the key component in all of this.


I can't remember what it had for a gas peddle. With your generator I think you've got a valve there and it can be adjusted to run a pretty steady speed. With a vehicle it might be pretty hairy trying to throttle it like a Model A.

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## Anti Federalist

> You the man.  Thanks for sharing!  Definitely looking into this.
> 
> I had a buddy who's dad had a Corvair with a propane conversion back in the early 80's.  Never got to ride in it or really check it out though.
> 
> I did the math for a Jeep conversion (258) out here but the expected mpg and cost of propane doesn't add up.  For an emergency/occasional generator it would make sense for us.


Thanks!

Yeah, I don't think as an economy move it would pay off, this is simply to get to the point where I do not have to store gas around the property anymore. That is next to impossible with the $#@! gas being foisted off on us and I'm not willing to hump back and forth to the nearest FBO and pay $7 or $8 bucks a gallon for 100LL avgas.

I've got 6 relatively new #20 BBQ tanks and 100 gallons of propane for the house, and anywhere from 200 to 500 gallons of #2 diesel in the heating oil tanks that, in a pinch could be used in the new Jetta, and the other two vehicles both have huge internal gasoline tanks.

One five gallon container of premium with Sta-Bil for the small 2 strokes/lawnmowers, and I'm set.

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## Anti Federalist

> I can't remember what it had for a gas peddle. With your generator I think you've got a valve there and it can be adjusted to run a pretty steady speed. With a vehicle it might be pretty hairy trying to throttle it like a Model A.


The throttle is set and governed mechanically, that is what maintains 60 cycles.

The fuel is increased or decreased by the demand placed on the vacuum regulator.

Basically, as the engine sucks harder, it releases more propane.

Safety bonus, if the engine stalls or dies in use, the demand regulator shuts the flow of gas off.

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## pcosmar

The Conch Trains in Key West used propane, (since the 70s). Had a good set up and ran Jeep engines.
Not sure on MPG. But Propane is drastically cheaper than Gasoline,, and it stores.

Nice set up. Grats.

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## Root

Nice. I'm considering this for my genny.

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## Anti Federalist

> The Conch Trains in Key West used propane, (since the 70s). Had a good set up and ran Jeep engines.
> Not sure on MPG. But Propane is drastically cheaper than Gasoline,, *and it stores*.
> 
> Nice set up. Grats.


Thanks, that was the primary reason for doing this.

I had been keeping and rotating a fairly large amount of gasoline and it's just an aching PITA anymore, it really is next to impossible with the $#@! that is being passed off for gas anymore and the last thing I needed was to find out I had nothing but a bunch of phase separated $#@! instead of fuel, when I needed it.

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## jmdrake

Awesome!  Now I'd like to see someone I know build one of these.  (Run gasoline engine off used motor oil and water).

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## Anti Federalist

Gonna have to look at that some more...^^^^

Has me scratching my head.

Can anyone thumbnail the engineering principles?

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## Anti Federalist

^^^^ Anybody?

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## jmdrake

> ^^^^ Anybody?


I'll take a stab at it.  Somehow the heat from the exhaust is supposed to start a plasma reaction that converts the water and hydrocarbons into a burnable gas.  It's clear to my how this works in "bingo fuel" reactor where carbon electrodes separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen and combine with water to make a usable fuel.  But I don't know who the GEET reactor gets started.  That's why I was hoping you, with your mechanical know how, could figure it out.    One of my summer projects will be to attempt to build one and see what happens.

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## whippoorwill

Thanks.

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## Anti Federalist

> I'll take a stab at it.  Somehow the heat from the exhaust is supposed to start a plasma reaction that converts the water and hydrocarbons into a burnable gas.  It's clear to my how this works in "bingo fuel" reactor where carbon electrodes separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen and combine with water to make a usable fuel.  But I don't know who the GEET reactor gets started.  That's why I was hoping you, with your mechanical know how, could figure it out.    One of my summer projects will be to attempt to build one and see what happens.


OK...let me mull that over, thanks.

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## Carson

> Gonna have to look at that some more...^^^^
> 
> Has me scratching my head.
> 
> Can anyone thumbnail the engineering principles?


My first thought was remembering stories about stories like this during the Great Depression.  Paper in one end, cash out of the other sort of thing.

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## bunklocoempire

I thought of this when I saw jmdrake's vid w/the mention of _heat from the exhaust is supposed to start a plasma reaction..._  :



Just slap some wheels on it...

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## jmdrake

> I thought of this when I saw jmdrake's vid w/the mention of _heat from the exhaust is supposed to start a plasma reaction..._  :
> 
> 
> 
> Just slap some wheels on it...


Hmmm.....could this all be as simple as an oil/water fire.

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## Anti Federalist

I'm thinking maybe boiling (cracking) out the light hydrocarbons from the used oil

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## Anti Federalist

Another outfit that makes conversion kits.

http://www.uscarburetion.com/

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## Anti Federalist

Thunderstorms about, power flickering...might have to use it for real.

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## XNavyNuke

There's a nice little write up from a Mother Earth News circa 1972 on their website:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/green...#axzz2X5xyAoTy

Might be helpful.
XNN

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## angelatc

Why would you do that?  (Serious question.)

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## Anti Federalist

> Why would you do that?  (Serious question.)


Some "off grid" posts made me want to bump this, but I never saw your question, so of course could not answer it.

The primary reason above everything else:

$#@! gasoline sold these days with ethanol additives goes bad in about 2 months of storage, now matter how much you try and treat it.

When it does, it can cause major engine damage, especially to two stroke engines.

Keeping liquid fuel, (the EPA mandated ULS diesel is almost as bad) handy and fresh is next to impossible anymore.

As long as the tanks don't get wet and rust out or leak, *propane never goes bad.*

Important fact from an off grid or "prepper" POV.

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## Dr.3D

> Some "off grid" posts made me want to bump this, but I never saw your question, so of course could not answer it.
> 
> The primary reason above everything else:
> 
> $#@! gasoline sold these days with ethanol additives goes bad in about 2 months of storage, now matter how much you try and treat it.
> 
> When it does, it can cause major engine damage, especially to two stroke engines.
> 
> Keeping liquid fuel, (the EPA mandated ULS diesel is almost as bad) handy and fresh is next to impossible anymore.
> ...


That's exactly why I did that to my generator.   I also have the added convenience of the 1000 gallon propane tank I'm using to run my furnace, water heater and dryer with.    Now I will never have to worry about not having fuel to run my generator in the dead of winter.  As long as I have fuel to run my furnace, I'll have electricity to run it as well.

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## Anti Federalist

Blimp

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## FindLiberty

Nice, but those lights may attract zombies if the entire power grid goes out.

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## Anti Federalist

Hurricane bump

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## presence

that oil/water fire concept would work well with two gear pumps to control feed rate that are locked 2.5:1 water/oil

feed the water gear pump with pressure regulated water and a pin valve...
have water flow through gear pump that puts out 2.5 units per rotation
have water gear pump shaft drive oil gear pump shaft that puts out 1.0 units per rotation 
feed the oil gear pump via gravity tank
then you're maintaining steady water/oil ratio that would be more reliable than two independent drips

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## presence

> Why would you do that?  (Serious question.)


when you're off grid for any period of time eventually toting highly flammable plastic 5 gallon cans in your economy car can become quite a chore; a corner store habit you'd rather do away with

much nicer and safer to have johnny propane maintain a bottle in your backyard

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## angelatc

Can you convert it to natural gas?

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## tod evans

> Can you convert it to natural gas?


Simply change an orifice.

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## angelatc

> Simply change an orifice.


I'm not really a prepper, but we have natural gas here at my house.  We've lost power for extended periods, and it seems like if we bought a generator, hooking it up to the gas line would save us from running to the gas station every day.

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## Anti Federalist

> I'm not really a prepper, but we have natural gas here at my house.  We've lost power for extended periods, and it seems like if we bought a generator, hooking it up to the gas line would save us from running to the gas station every day.


They make kits for natural gas.

Every propane kit has a NG kit as well.

Here's the link for Briggs and Stratton engines.

http://www.usgemini.com/generators/c...l-gas-tri-fuel

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## angelatc

> They make kits for natural gas.
> 
> Every propane kit has a NG kit as well.
> 
> Here's the link for Briggs and Stratton engines.
> 
> http://www.usgemini.com/generators/c...l-gas-tri-fuel


OMG - that is so awesome!  Killing me not to get lost in it.  But my husband isn't handy, and while I sort of am, I'm afraid of mucking about with the gas lines.  Hmmm....maybe the plumber next door....

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## Anti Federalist

> OMG - that is so awesome!  Killing me not to get lost in it.  But my husband isn't handy, and while I sort of am, I'm afraid of mucking about with the gas lines.  Hmmm....maybe the plumber next door....


LOL - Understood.

That is *certainly* something you don't want to do half assed.

That said, I have no reason to think that the NG kits would not work as well as the propane kits.

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## Anti Federalist

Getting its first real workout, after all these years.

So far, so good.

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## phill4paul

> Getting its first real workout, after all these years.
> 
> So far, so good.


  Ah, thanks for the bump...

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## Danke

> Simply change an orifice.



Highly recommended.

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## HVACTech

> Highly recommended.


the "orifice" in question... is typically called a "jet" 
and has to do with the interior, conical shape. 

what I like about this forum. is how very STUPID people assume that I am.

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## Anti Federalist

Only problem I've run across so far: the rapid evaporation of the liquid propane causes the tank to freeze up and reduces the temperature of the liquid propane so that it does not "boil off" properly and can starve the engine for fuel.

Shaking the tank and then placing it closer to the engine air cooling discharge and exhaust helped keep it warm and eliminated that problem.

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## Anti Federalist

> the "orifice" in question... is typically called a "jet" 
> and has to do with the interior, conical shape. 
> 
> what I like about this forum. is how very STUPID people assume that I am.


Once again, HVACTech has it "almost right".

In a carburetor, it is liquid fuel being vaporized in a venturi "jet", in which the liquid fuel is sucked into the incoming vacuum of air rushing by the venturi restriction and then rapidly expanding, and then proceeds to the engine.

When you have a fuel, like propane, that is already in a gaseous state and under pressure, it is not called a "jet" it is called an "orifice", the reason being that the fuel in this case is being *"pushed"* by pressure from behind, not *"pulled"* by vacuum from outside.

A subtle but important distinction that has little, if nothing, to do with the interior shape of the jet, nozzle or orifice.

He *is* right in that both of these devices are there to meter fuel delivery.

I give @HVACTech a "C" on this comment.

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## sparebulb



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## The Northbreather

> Only problem I've run across so far: the rapid evaporation of the liquid propane causes the tank to freeze up and reduces the temperature of the liquid propane so that it does not "boil off" properly and can starve the engine for fuel.
> 
> Shaking the tank and then placing it closer to the engine air cooling discharge and exhaust helped keep it warm and eliminated that problem.


Set the tank right next to the alternator. You could also build/buy a copper pigtail splitter so you can draw from two tanks at once.

Also these were going at Costco for 499 last summer but Honda is rumored to be working on a duel fuel model..

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## Anti Federalist

> Ah, thanks for the bump...


Second bump for Phill

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## phill4paul

> Second bump for Phill


   Thank, you! Will probably need a third. I have seriously got to get this done. Just no damn time for anything these days.

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## Anti Federalist

And yet one more time.

The recent pipeline nonsense drives this home again.

Propane - LNG fuels never go bad as long as the tank remains intact.

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## Anti Federalist

*Why* you want to get rid of long term gasoline storage.

These guys are goofy, and kind of irritating to watch, so if you want spoilers, check under the video.

They test a whole slew of gas additives, VP fuel and straight pump 87 octane ethanol garbage gas.



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The pump gas and all the additives failed. One engine ran on the gas with Sta-Bil 360 but it still showed significant gelling and rusting in the carb. My estimation is it would not have run for long in actual use.

*Only* the VP "manufactured" fuel worked, did not gel, and did not result in moisture damage in the carb.

I use TruFuel (same chemical, basically) in my chainsaws and riding mower and I swear by the stuff. 

*Years* can go by and they will still fire right off.

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