# News & Current Events > World News & Affairs >  LIVE webcam from Gaza

## Ex Post Facto

OLD FEED: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...0%20-%202k%20-

NEW FEED: http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2

This might be something to watch while surfing the web. Join us in the forum chat room for discussion.

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## dannno

"FIRE... FIRE!!!"

"HEHEHEHEH... YAA!! FIRE!!"

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## RSLudlum

Is it still streaming for you?  I just had it but now I can't connect.

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## Ex Post Facto

Yeah mines still streaming

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## RSLudlum

I got it back, gunfire in the distant

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## angelatc

It is working for me

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## ronpaulhawaii

weird hearing roosters crowing in a city...

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## Ex Post Facto

I'm thinking this camera is facing East? Watch for the rising sun.

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## RSLudlum

isn't around 4am there?

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## angelatc

What kind of military action do you sepculate is happening?

This is weirding me out. Watching the war, live on the internet.  It sort of blurs the line between reality and TV.

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## Sandra

"page has been removed"

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## Ex Post Facto

someone just took control of the feed and switched to a different camera. same location different direction.

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## torchbearer

> http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...0%20-%202k%20-
> 
> This might be something to watch while surfing the web.


How did you find this feed?
Will this put me on any additional list?

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## ronpaulhawaii

> What kind of military action do you sepculate is happening?
> 
> This is weirding me out. Watching the war, live on the internet.  It sort of blurs the line between reality and TV.


Yeah, a bit surreal. I left the tab open and just heard an explosion. 

The cams have been switching as well...

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## RSLudlum

> How did you find this feed?
> Will this put me on any additional list?


LOL..I bet that list is getting to be longer than Santa's by now

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## Ex Post Facto

Found it in another forum. Someone linked it there. Why would you get put on a list for watching something streaming thousands of miles away?

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## torchbearer

> "page has been removed"


paste the address into your media player.

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## torchbearer

> Found it in another forum. Someone linked it there. Why would you get put on a list for watching something streaming thousands of miles away?


Depends on who is transmitting the signal.
If its a hamas server, well, i may end up on another list.

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## Uriel999

> "fire... Fire!!!"
> 
> "heheheheh... Yaa!! Fire!!"


rofl!!!!!!

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## torchbearer

> Yeah, a bit surreal. I left the tab open and just heard an explosion. 
> 
> The cams have been switching as well...


I was thinking the same thing... I just heard machine gun fire.
Think about how that would be to have that here on a regular basis for your entire life.

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## torchbearer

I hear helicopters.. (or something that sounds like a bunch of crop duster)

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## Uriel999

Nothing is happening? Is Israel taking a break from the attack or is this area just not having any action?

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## Ex Post Facto

> I hear helicopters.. (or something that sounds like a bunch of crop duster)


I understand that humming noise are UAV's or predator drones

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## torchbearer

> Nothing is happening? Is Israel taking a break from the attack or is this area just not having any action?


Nothing happening?
What feed are you watching?
I'm hearing all kinds of stuff.

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## Uriel999

> Depends on who is transmitting the signal.
> If its a hamas server, well, i may end up on another list.


God I hope it isn't. I hear a humming sound, sounds like choppers now. and chickens crowing weird.

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## torchbearer

> I understand that humming noise are UAV's or predator drones


Makes sense.... 
we need to figure out how to take those things down.
or hijack their signal.

(whoa i just heard another large explosion)

what forum did you find this link on?

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## Uriel999

sounds like I heard a bomb now. wow, creepy

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## Uriel999

> Makes sense.... 
> we need to figure out how to take those things down.
> or hijack their signal.
> 
> (whoa i just heard another large explosion)
> 
> what forum did you find this link on?


UAVs $#@!

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## Ex Post Facto

> what forum did you find this link on?


Disclose TV

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## Ex Post Facto

I hear the morning prayer to Allah

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## Sandra

5 AM then?

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## RSLudlum

> 5 AM then?


Yes, they're 7 hours ahead of EST.

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## Uriel999

I wish this camera would like spin around or something. I'd like to actually see things over just hearing.

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## Josh_LA

it looks like night time for me.

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## Ex Post Facto

The fire fight is going on top right of the horizon...you can see rockets and flares. Just saw some ambulances pass as well close to the camera.

I wonder if this is on the gaza or isreal side?

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## devil21

> The fire fight is going on top right of the horizon...you can see rockets and flares. Just saw some ambulances pass as well close to the camera.
> 
> I wonder if this is on the gaza or isreal side?


Judging by the Arabic symbols, I assume Gazan.  Neat feed though.  Even if it was a Hamas feed of some sort, its not like it matters, especially if you use a proxy.  Put me on "the list".  See if I give a $#@!.  Im probably already on it anyway.  I figured any of us that donated to RP's campaign were automatically put on it.

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## Sandra

> The fire fight is going on top right of the horizon...you can see rockets and flares. Just saw some ambulances pass as well close to the camera.
> 
> I wonder if this is on the gaza or isreal side?


That's what I was wondering. I don't think Gaza has electricity.

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## Ex Post Facto

Does Israel have Muslims in it that sing? If not this seems to be from the Gaza side.

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## Sandra

> Does Israel have Muslims in it that sing? If not this seems to be from the Gaza side.


Yes, they do.

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## devil21

Well, it does say "Gaza Live".

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## Sandra

> Well, it does say "Gaza Live".


yeah, but the camera may be pointed at Gaza. I'm sure they said that Gaza hadn't electricity, though.

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## angelatc

If it is a camera pointed at Gaza, and a city in Gaza is on the horizon, then that city is on fire.

eta: It looks like only a couple blocks have electricity. The buildings closest to the camera are darker.  The lights we see from there could be from generators of something.

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## Ex Post Facto

I think it's inside gaza as there is fighting coming from the direction where the sun is rising. The camera must be pointed slightly NE

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## Ex Post Facto

Someone is zooming it in to a fire. Sirens like a bomb alert just went off.

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## angelatc

> Someone is zooming it in to a fire. Sirens like a bomb alert just went off.


I saw that too. Somebody is definitely manning the camera. I thought it might just be a security feed.  This is all the only news they'll get out. WHoever is staffing this camera is risking their life. As soon as Israel figures out approximately where it is it will be bombed.

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## Ex Post Facto

damn bomb just went off right in a neighborhood nearby.

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## devil21

Wow thats hardcore.  Was that a bomb that just went off?


ETA:  Jeez Im such a nerd.  Sitting at home on a friday nite, eating bagles and watching a Gaza web cam....

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## Ex Post Facto

One great thing about this is if they keep hitting neighborhoods at the very least it is documented.

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## LiveToWin

Yea, a jet flew over a few minutes ago and dropped 2 bombs very close by.  I hear helicopters and drones all over; and lots of roosters. The sun is up now.

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## Ex Post Facto

Uhm WTF are they shooting at?

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## RSLudlum

relentless bombing has begun??

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## devil21

For anyone that was wondering, I just looked up Ramattan.  It's an arab news agency so the feed should be "safe".  The camera guy, not so much....

http://english.ramattan.net/

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## LiveToWin

A rocket just got shot at that helicopter.

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## Ex Post Facto

> relentless bombing has begun??


Yes about 10 bombs in the past 10 minutes

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## angelatc

Hearing all the roosters made me think of an old Monty Python skit.

"No parrots were harmed in the Gaza bombings today..."

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## devil21

> Yes about 10 bombs in the past 10 minutes


$250,000 out of taxpayer's pockets.

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## Ex Post Facto

> $250,000 out of taxpayer's pockets.


Yeah next thing you know the Military is going to ask for a bailout.

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## Danke

> For anyone that was wondering, I just looked up Ramattan.  It's an arab news agency so the feed should be "safe".  The camera guy, not so much....


I wish the Israelis would move the bombing closer to the camera guy, that'd be cool.

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## LiveToWin

6:43 saturday morning, Jan 10th gaza time. People starting to walk around now, and I hear cars. Still explosions going off every minute or so.

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## RSLudlum

> $250,000 out of taxpayer's pockets.


There's plenty more where those came from:




> *U.S. says arms shipment to Israel not linked to Gaza*
> Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:28am GMT  By Stefano Ambrogi
> 
> LONDON (Reuters) - The U.S. military has sought to hire a merchant ship to deliver ammunition to Israel this month, tender documents show, but the Pentagon said the shipment was not linked to the conflict in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> A Pentagon spokesman said the ammunition was for a U.S. stockpile in Israel. The U.S. military pre-positions stockpiles in some countries in case it needs supplies at short notice.
> 
> In the tender documents, the U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command (MSC) said the ship was to carry 325 standard 20-foot containers of what is listed as "ammunition" on two separate journeys from the Greek port of Astakos to the Israeli port of Ashdod in mid-to-late January.
> 
> ...



Thank god it's not 'linked' to Gaza.

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## angelatc

> the Pentagon said the shipment was not linked to the conflict in the Gaza Strip. A Pentagon spokesman said the ammunition was for a U.S. stockpile in Israel.


Oh, that's good.





> The U.S. military pre-positions stockpiles in some countries in case it needs supplies at short notice.


 OH, that's bad.

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## LiveToWin

That one was Loud, must have been close.

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## devil21

Im sure Israel can choose to "borrow" whatever it needs from the stockpile.  Just leave an IOU note and it's all good.

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## nodope0695

hmmm, not working for me....perhaps my internet settings, plugins?  Any IT's out there?

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## Ex Post Facto

> hmmm, not working for me....perhaps my internet settings, plugins?  Any IT's out there?


Almost better that you don't watch, it's depressing...try copying link and pasting it in your browser.

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## devil21

> hmmm, not working for me....perhaps my internet settings, plugins?  Any IT's out there?


Save the file to your hard drive, then open it with Windows Media player.

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## Ex Post Facto

Is the a .50 Calibur or a helicopter gunship?

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## LiveToWin

> Is the a .50 Calibur or a helicopter gunship?


Sounded like a gunship firing HE rounds at something.

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## Ex Post Facto

Join the forum chat room for discussion.

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## Uriel999

> Yeah next thing you know the Military is going to ask for a bailout.


 You mean Israeli military?




> I wish the Israelis would move the bombing closer to the camera guy, that'd be cool.


I'm not sure I like this comment. No appalled, I am...though what is happening is more appalling.

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## olehounddog

Was that cluster bombs?

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## Ex Post Facto

Discuss in http://www.ronpaulforums.com/chat.php?

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## Uriel999

> hmmm, not working for me....perhaps my internet settings, plugins?  Any IT's out there?


I thought you were leaving us.

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## Danke

Some reporter who can't speak English is now on...

I hope a bomb goes off near by, that'd be cool.

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## dannno

I'm thinking about turnin up my sub to rumble, crankin up my speakers really high, and see if I can sleep through this $#@!..

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## devil21

> I'm thinking about turnin up my sub to rumble, crankin up my speakers really high, and see if I can sleep through this $#@!..


Almost like being there!

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## Danke

> I'm thinking about turnin up my sub to rumble, crankin up my speakers really high, and see if I can sleep through this $#@!..


Mix up some Styrofoam and gasoline so you can smell napalm in the morning when you wake up.

http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoaft6Wn.html

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## LiveToWin

Video is being broadcasted from 9th Floor, Shawa & Husari Building, Al Wahda Street, Rimal, Gaza City.

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## Ex Post Facto

Massive Helicopter raid.

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## 0zzy

i guess you guys dont like teamspeak?

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## RSLudlum

it's still streaming.

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## Sandra

CLUSTER BOMBS! And they don't even care cameras are rolling!

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## ronpaulhawaii

> CLUSTER BOMBS! And they don't even care cameras are rolling!


 I just saw two get dropped

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## Hiki

The link doesn't work. It tries to open it in winamp but winamp closes straight away. Also tried opening the link with winamp but  there is some kind of a connection error.

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## RSLudlum

> I just saw two get dropped

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## Sandra

> The link doesn't work. It tries to open it in winamp but winamp closes straight away. Also tried opening the link with winamp but  there is some kind of a connection error.



Go to the first post in this thread, right click on it, click "properties, copy, paste it into your WMP "open url" bar.

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## Sandra

The smoke is thick and making it look dark. Even the sun looks like the moon.

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## Sandra

It looks like they are getting closer to where the camera is and there's a huge fire.

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## Dr.3D

> The smoke is thick and making it look dark. Even the sun looks like the moon.


Well, it's 6:07 PM right now over there.

http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_IL.aspx

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## Sandra

Just  before a bomb exploded a minute before, it was still daylight. It went darker immediately. The sun was getting low.

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## Dr.3D

> Just  before a bomb exploded a minute before, it was still daylight. It went darker immediately. The sun was getting low.


Ok, I see.

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## angelatc

I can't believe the server isn't swamped at this point.  I never expected I'd be able to log back on.

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## MRoCkEd

this is brutal

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## angelatc

I suspect that's nothing. But watching wounded children is very hard. The neocons and the Jews will say that if they did not use their children as human shields perhaps this would not happen. Which is so wrong on so many levels that it leaves me speechless.

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## zach

I can't believe this.

Show this, CNN. See how your viewers will react.

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## RSLudlum

> I suspect that's nothing. But watching wounded children is very hard. .


I had to mute it because the sounds were making my skin crawl.

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## Sandra

Cluster bombs are proof positive they are after the population and not certain targets.

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## Danke

> Cluster bombs are proof positive they are after the population and not certain targets.


Do we have any videos of cluster bombs being used in Gaza?

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## angelatc

> I can't believe this.
> 
> Show this, CNN. See how your viewers will react.


Yesterday, they got caught showing some video that was possibly fake, so they're probably a little gun shy.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me...ons/index.html

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## angelatc

> I had to mute it because the sounds were making my skin crawl.


You should try being a girl! I was in tears.

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## Uriel999

Damn its not even noon where I am and its already dark there. Oh well I did get to see sunrise.

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## Uriel999

Did I miss anything?

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## Sandra

Is this some kind of press conference fixing to start? Also I'm not hearing as many UAV's.

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## ronpaulhawaii

> Do we have any videos of cluster bombs being used in Gaza?


What I saw was ordinance that exploded like an aerial burst firework, then dropped many bright objects, of which I saw one direct (flame) explosion. A pall of smoke hung over the area, increased with occasional puffs. I don't know the jargon, but for anyone below, it was certainly a clusterfk

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## Danke

> What I saw was ordinance that exploded like an aerial burst firework, then dropped many bright objects, of which I saw one direct (flame) explosion. A pall of smoke hung over the area, increased with occasional puffs. I don't know the jargon, but for anyone below, it was certainly a clusterfk


That wouldn't be a cluster bomb.

Probably a type of smoke bomb, there is currently a dispute going on whether the Israelis are using white phosphorus type shells to create smoke screens.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5447590.ece

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## ronpaulhawaii

> That wouldn't be a cluster bomb.
> 
> Probably a type of smoke bomb, there is currently a dispute going on whether the Israelis are using white phosphorus type shells to create smoke screens.
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5447590.ece


Thanks for clearing that up. Still, the explosion I saw looked pretty damn violent. And why were they so bright? Like burning balls dropping... I wonder how the explosive force of each canister compares to a quassam...

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## Danke

Cluster bombs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii5D0...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXdk...eature=related

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## Pauls' Revere

> "fire... Fire!!!"
> 
> "heheheheh... Yaa!! Fire!!"


lol...chuckles!
:d

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## Pauls' Revere

> What kind of military action do you sepculate is happening?
> 
> This is weirding me out. Watching the war, live on the internet.  It sort of blurs the line between reality and TV.


Yeah imagine your son/daughter in Iraq or elsewhere with a webcam on thier helmet going into battle where you could log in and watch them to stay in touch and see bombs and bullets fly by or watch live as your love one dies.


"War without tears" - Peter Gabriel

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## angelatc

War is ugly, there aren't any rules,  and there's no way to enforce them anyway.  Israel doesn't even have a nuclear program officially, but everybody knows they have the weapons. 

THey lie even when they don't have to.  Like when they bombed the ambulances  - all they had to say was "we're not able to guarantee safety, because Hamas has a history of using ambulances to transport soldiers," but they didn't.   Of course, if they thought Hamas was using ambulances, and they wanted a map of where the ambulances were headed, it would serve their purposes to lie.

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## angelatc

MSNBC headline" "Israel: Gaza Offensive Will Be Escalated"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28573204

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## ronpaulhawaii

> Cluster bombs:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii5D0...eature=related
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXdk...eature=related


definitely not those...

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## Sandra

Nope, these exploded higher in the air.

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## LiveToWin

10:36 pm gaza time. Fairly quiet. The drones are still loud. Probably going to be a lot more going on later though, with those israeli leaflets that say the bombing it going to be heavier. This camera may be in danger.

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## LiveToWin

A very angry guy is shouting over the loud speakers.

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## ronpaulhawaii

that was loud, wasn't watching, someone is there

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## devil21

Its showing video from outside a hospital while they bring in casualties.  Very grizzly stuff.  Lots of children....

That place is in chaos.

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## pinkmandy

> Its showing video from outside a hospital while they bring in casualties.  Very grizzly stuff.  Lots of children....
> 
> That place is in chaos.


I was watching that. Had to turn away when they were examining the tiny baby.

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## angelatc

Here we go again.

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## angelatc

Is anybody else watching?

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## RSLudlum

just connected a few minutes ago.  I'm listening to FreeTalkLive at the same time.

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## Captain Bryan

I'm watching it off and on.

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## Sandra

Just got back, turned it on pronto.

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## angelatc

That's about the closest we've seen.

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## Bruno

Can this get any eerier?

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## angelatc

What is that? Prayers? I thought that didn't happen until 5 or so? Do they do it more than once?

Where's Hamadeh? He knows these things.

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## RSLudlum

> What is that? Prayers? I thought that didn't happen until 5 or so? Do they do it more than once?
> 
> Where's Hamadeh? He knows these things.


don't they pray 5 or 6 times a day?

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## Bruno

> What is that? Prayers? I thought that didn't happen until 5 or so? Do they do it more than once?
> 
> Where's Hamadeh? He knows these things.


Five times a day I believe.  Not sure when the first begins.

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## angelatc

The internet makes us smarter:  




> 1. The Morning Prayer (SALAT-UL-FAJR)
>       It can be performed at any time between the breaking of the dawn till just before sunrise.
> 
>    2. The Noon Prayer (SALAT-UL-ZUHR)
>       Its time begins after the sun declines from its zenith until it is about mid-afternoon.
> 
>    3. The Afternoon Prayer (SALAT-UL-ASR)
>       Its time begins soon after the time for Zuhr prayer ends and extends to just before sunset.
> 
> ...

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## torchbearer

hmmm

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## angelatc

Red sky in the morning...

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## Danke

> Red sky in the morning...


Red in the morning, sailors take warning...does that apply to Palestinians?

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## Pauls' Revere

and this on Yahoo.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090111/...l_palestinians

Israel tells Gazans to brace for war escalation

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## Uriel999

> and this on Yahoo.
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090111/...l_palestinians
> 
> Israel tells Gazans to brace for war escalation


Really? more? What the hell man. $#@!, why don't they just go ahead and carpet bomb the place. Freaking nazis.

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## RSLudlum

> Really? more? What the hell man. $#@!, why don't they just go ahead and carpet bomb the place. Freaking nazis.


yeah, more is right.  It's been going on pretty much since daybreak.

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## devil21

It appears quieter today than it was yesterday at the same time.

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## Uriel999

> yeah, more is right.  It's been going on pretty much since daybreak.


Yeah, I just saw a chopper being filmed for the first time on this from what I have seen. Is it lagtastic for yall?

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## pinkmandy

It's a zoo there now. They just dropped something and you could hear the people screaming.

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## Captain Bryan

The camera went dead. I didn't notice anything happen when it did. Just.. gone.

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## fj45lvr

still up here now....

This kind of surprises me that they allow this or any internet to leave....I would have expected everything to be shut down by the IDF.

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## Captain Bryan

Yeah, it just came back for me, weird. :\
I'm surprised, too. I suspect they're using a satellite internet connection.

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

Drudge had a picture of Gaza up that looked like its coming from the same camera

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## Sandra

Are they bombing/shelling around the hospital?

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## Zolah

I dunno about over there in American media...but in the UK, Sky and BBC both show live feeds from Ramattan cameras oh...a dozen times a day, especially early morning, even heard a rooster yesterday I think. And thousands of short clips from Ramattan feed throughout the day during news reports/correspondance.

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## Sandra

It's 4:30 over there and look how dark! It's the smoke I guess.

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## Sandra

There's more screaming too.

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## DirtMcGirt

do you have a guy sitting at a desk on your screen?

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## angelatc

> I dunno about over there in American media...but in the UK, Sky and BBC both show live feeds from Ramattan cameras oh...a dozen times a day, especially early morning, even heard a rooster yesterday I think. And thousands of short clips from Ramattan feed throughout the day during news reports/correspondance.


No, here it is assumed that any media coming from the Palestinian side of the tracks is propaganda.  

Looks like they're setting up a bit of it now.

The thing is, they don't need propaganda.

ETA - Yes, a "traitor!" is speaking. But it's really laggy. He is talking about negotiation, but I do not think Israel is interested in that.

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## Sandra

Are any of you still getting the feed?

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## LiveToWin

> Are any of you still getting the feed?


http://www.comcast.net/articles/news....Palestinians/

Israeli troops moved into Gaza City, which is where this feed was coming from. It probably has been shut down.

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## RSLudlum

> Are any of you still getting the feed?


getting nothing but a test pattern

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## Sandra

The feed's back!

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## angelatc

> http://www.comcast.net/articles/news....Palestinians/
> 
> Israeli troops moved into Gaza City, which is where this feed was coming from. It probably has been shut down.



Wouldn't ground troops decrease the odds of bombs being dropped?

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## M House

Nope bombs are "precision" munitions these days.

----------


## Danke

> Wouldn't ground troops decrease the odds of bombs being dropped?


Munitions are very precise these days.

So not necessarily, and troops can help in the targeting.

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## Sandra

> Wouldn't ground troops decrease the odds of bombs being dropped?


Don't they let drugs in their military?

----------


## Danke

> Nope bombs are "precision" munitions these days.


Scary how closely worded our posts turned out...

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## torchbearer

> Don't they let drugs in their military?


I know we give our long range bomber guys meth.

----------


## M House

The twitchiness must help with the reflexes.

----------


## Crowish

Surreal.

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## torchbearer

> The twitchiness must help with the reflexes.


The reason I know this...
Do you remeber back when we were taking down the taliban, that long range bomber pilot who accidentally bombed a canadian division?
The Canadian government was in an uproar.. wanting justice..
The U.S. government was going to give them that justice by locking the pilot up, but then the pilot came out publically and stated that the US government makes them use meth on the long flights, and thus, he couldn't be held responsible.
Basically telling the government to back down or their dirty lil' secrets will be mainstream news.

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## torchbearer

On April 17th 2002, USAF bomber pilots on amphetamine "go pills" mistakenly bombed Canadian forces in Afghanistan, killing four and wounding eight. The USAAF says that the amphetamine was issued to keep them awake on long missions.

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## torchbearer

> On April 17th 2002, USAF bomber pilots on amphetamine "go pills" mistakenly bombed Canadian forces in Afghanistan, killing four and wounding eight. The USAAF says that the amphetamine was issued to keep them awake on long missions.

----------


## torchbearer

> On April 17th 2002, USAF bomber pilots on amphetamine "go pills" mistakenly bombed Canadian forces in Afghanistan, killing four and wounding eight. The USAAF says that the amphetamine was issued to keep them awake on long missions.


Here is the link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/

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## Danke

> The reason I know this...
> Do you remeber back when we were taking down the taliban, that long range bomber pilot who accidentally bombed a canadian division?
> The Canadian government was in an uproar.. wanting justice..
> The U.S. government was going to give them that justice by locking the pilot up, but then the pilot came out publically and stated that the US government makes them use meth on the long flights, and thus, he couldn't be held responsible.
> Basically telling the government to back down or their dirty lil' secrets will be mainstream news.


Well, I have never done Meth, but form what i have heard, it is not like taking "Go" pills.

And it is "fighter-bomber"  

But I can see where impaired judgment would be the defense, otherwise, they really didn't have one.  Those missions where ungodly long to be in a single seat fighter.

----------


## torchbearer

> Well, I have never done Meth, but form what i have heard, it is not like taking "Go" pills.
> 
> And it is "fighter-bomber"  
> 
> But I can see where impaired judgment would be the defense, otherwise, they really didn't have one.  Those missions where ungodly long to be in a single seat fighter.


The go pills weren't mini-thins, ephedra... it was methamphetamine in a pill.

----------


## RSLudlum

> The go pills weren't mini-thins, ephedra... it was methamphetamine in a pill.


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...520778665.html

----------


## torchbearer

> The go pills weren't mini-thins, ephedra... it was methamphetamine in a pill.


It has the same effect as meth done any other way... in a rail... through your vein... mixed in water in an inhaler... etc.

----------


## torchbearer

> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...520778665.html


Dextroamphetamine is a psychostimulant which is known to produce increased wakefulness and focus in association with decreased fatigue and appetite. It is perhaps the archetypal psycho-stimulant, and drugs with similar psychoactive properties are often referred to as "amphetamine analogues", or described as having "amphetamine-like", or even "amphetaminergic" effects.

----------


## Danke

> The go pills weren't mini-thins, ephedra... it was methamphetamine in a pill.


I have taken "go" pills, but they had no adverse affects on me.  People I know who have used Meth describe something entirely different.

----------


## torchbearer

> I have taken "go" pills, but they had no adverse affects on me.  People I know who have used Meth describe something entirely different.


How long did you stay awake?
The side effects come from staying awake for long duration.
Stay up for 4 days on dextro and tell me how you are doing.

----------


## M House

Dextroamphetamine is one of many different variants of the amphetamine salt. Metyl-amphetamines tend to be more readily absorbed and produce more of a dopamine boost. Either way you get a bit jumpy as they wear off.

----------


## torchbearer

History of Amphetamine:

Amphetamine was first synthesized under the chemical name "phenylisopropylamine" in Berlin, 1887 by the Romanian chemist Lazar Edeleanu. It was not widely marketed until 1932, when the pharmaceutical company Smith, Kline, and French (currently known as GlaxoSmithKline) introduced it in the form of the Benzedrine Inhaler, for combating cold symptoms. Notably, the chemical form of Benzedrine in the inhaler was the liquid free-base, not a chloride or sulfate salt. In free-base form, amphetamine is a volatile oil, hence the efficacy of the inhalers.

Three years later, in 1935, the medical community became aware of the stimulant properties of amphetamine, specifically *dextroamphetamine*, and in 1937 Smith, Kline, and French introduced tablets, under the tradename Dexedrine. In the United States, Dexedrine tablets were approved to treat narcolepsy, attention disorders, depression, and obesity. Dextroamphetamine was marketed in various other forms in the following decades, primarily by Smith, Kline, and French, such as several combination medications including a mixture of dextroamphetamine and amobarbital (a barbiturate) sold under the tradename Dexamyl and, in the 1950s, an extended release capsule (the "Spansule").

It quickly became apparent that Dexedrine and other amphetamines had a high potential for abuse, although they were not heavily controlled until 1970, when the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act was passed by the United States Congress. Dexedrine, along with other sympathomimetics, was eventually classified as schedule II, the most restrictive category possible for a drug with recognized medical uses.

Internationally, it has been available under the names AmfeDyn (Italy), Curban (US), Obetrol (Switzerland), Simpamina (Italy), Dexedrine (US), and Stild (Spain).

----------


## M House

I'm pretty sure long endurance mission specific target recognition and bombing didn't make the approved for use list.

----------


## Danke

You can hear a lot of bombing going on now.

----------


## Bruno

hearing planes overhead right now, no bombing or fires thats I can see at the moment.

----------


## Sandra

Does anyone else think the UAV's are a bit too loud to be of any real use othe than to make the people nervous?

----------


## Sandra

Holy CRAP! Did ya'll see that explosion! They're shootong missles clear across the city, they haven't a clua as to where they will land.

----------


## Bruno

bump

power out, just saw a big explosion and heard lots more heavy machine gun fire

----------


## olehounddog

That was clusterbombs

----------


## angelatc

I wonder if that's phosphurus? It seems to leave a lot of smoke.

----------


## Bruno

dawn breaking, more gunfire

----------


## Danke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFEO6...s/1054234.html

----------


## devil21

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFEO6...s/1054234.html


I didnt make it past the first minute.  I wish Congress cared as much about America as it cares about Israel.  Disgusting traitors.

----------


## Benny45

> Holy CRAP! Did ya'll see that explosion! They're shootong missles clear across the city, they haven't a clua as to where they will land.


Hamas is shooting rockets into Israel, they haven't a clue as to where they will land. 

Hey, just read that Amir Mansi (Hamas rocket chief) was killed today. Live by the bomb, die by the bomb. Hell +1.

----------


## orafi

> Hamas is shooting rockets into Israel, they haven't a clue as to where they will land. 
> 
> Hey, just read that Amir Mansi (Hamas rocket chief) was killed today. Live by the bomb, die by the bomb. Hell +1.


You can't really precision control bottle rockets.  Depleted uranium missiles on the other hand...

----------


## RSLudlum

> Hamas is shooting rockets into Israel, they haven't a clue as to where they will land. 
> 
> Hey, just read that Amir Mansi (Hamas rocket chief) was killed today. Live by the bomb, die by the bomb. Hell +1.


well at least they got one of their targets amid all the "collateral damage".  


Where you been Benny???  We've missed you!!!!!

----------


## angelatc

There will be more Jews in hell than Palestinians, Benny.

Anybody that believes that greed and bloodlust are the rights of a chosen people is simply delusional.

----------


## Benny45

> You can't really precision control bottle rockets.  Depleted uranium missiles on the other hand...



Once again, if it was your child, brother, sister, or parent that was killed by a hamas rocket, I wonder if you would be calling it a "bottle rocket". Probably not.

----------


## Benny45

> There will be more Jews in hell than Palestinians, Benny.
> 
> Anybody that believes that greed and bloodlust are the rights of a chosen people is simply delusional.



Yeah, whatever. 

I have no doubt Mansi is dining with Arafat right now.  Good riddance.

----------


## Benny45

> well at least they got one of their targets amid all the "collateral damage".  
> 
> 
> Where you been Benny???  We've missed you!!!!!


Missed you too.  Been busy at work.

----------


## angelatc

> Once again, if it was your child, brother, sister, or parent that was killed by a hamas rocket, I wonder if you would be calling it a "bottle rocket". Probably not.


LOL!  If it were my child, brother sister or parent that was being robbed, starved and held hostage by Israel, I'd be building bottle rockets.

Of course, since Israel stole a nuclear program, they'd be of little use I suppose.

----------


## Benny45

> LOL!  If it were my child, brother sister or parent that was being robbed, starved and held hostage by Israel, I'd be building bottle rockets.
> 
> Of course, since Israel stole a nuclear program, they'd be of little use I suppose.


Keep making excuses for Hamas. They are doing just a brilliant job for their people.

----------


## angelatc

> Yeah, whatever. 
> 
> I have no doubt Mansi is dining with Arafat right now.  Good riddance.


Ar least Satan feeds the people in his camps, then. More than Israel can say. They semed to have picked up a few tricks from the Germans. Not only have they at least decided to fight back, they starve large groups of captives. 

Heck, America probably wouldn't have needed to enter WWII if they had any balls in the 40's.

----------


## angelatc

> Keep making excuses for Hamas. They are doing just a brilliant job for their people.


I don't care who wins. I'd like to see nukes go off and take out the entire Middle East.  As the saying goes, let God sort them out.

----------


## Benny45

> Ar least Satan feeds the people in his camps, then. More than Israel can say. They semed to have picked up a few tricks from the Germans. Not only have they at least decided to fight back, they starve large groups of captives. 
> 
> Heck, America probably wouldn't have needed to enter WWII if they had any balls in the 40's.


Satan feeds people?  Wonder what Mansi is dining on tonight.  May he rest in pieces.

----------


## Benny45

> I don't care who wins. I'd like to see nukes go off and take out the entire Middle East.  As the saying goes, let God sort them out.


Ah, another RonPaulForums.com peace activist.  Priceless.

----------


## angelatc

> Satan feeds people?  Wonder what Mansi is dining on tonight.


Something fresh out of the ovens, no doubt.

----------


## angelatc

> Ah, another RonPaulForums.com peace activist.  Priceless.


Says the boy who wants to see genocide as the solution to Israel's problem of the week.

Hey, they have no interest in peace, and I have no interest in sending them billions and billions of dollars. THe Middle East is just a drain on civilization.

----------


## Benny45

> THe Middle East is just a drain on civilization.


Yeah, you sound incredibly civilized.

----------


## angelatc

> Yeah, you sound incredibly civilized.


My neighbors aren't feeling compelled to launch bottle rockets into my yard because I won't let food pass down the street to their house, so I'm already more human than Israel.

----------


## Bruno

...meanwhile, Gaza burns

----------


## Benny45

> My neighbors aren't feeling compelled to launch bottle rockets into my yard because I won't let food pass down the street to their house, so I'm already more human than Israel.


Ok, lets tell you neighbor to launch 3000 rockets a year at your house.  Maybe it will kill you, maybe it won't. Lets see what you want to do then.

Shame on hamas.  Because they keep firing "Bottle Rockets" into Israel, thing bring destruction down on their own people.  Well, hopefully with the death of Mansi today, and hopefully a few more of his terrorist kind tommorow,  The war will be over soon.

----------


## angelatc

> ...meanwhile, Gaza burns


Indeed it does. I just saw that..

----------


## angelatc

> Ok, lets tell you neighbor to launch 3000 rockets a year at your house.  Maybe it will kill you, maybe it won't. Lets see what you want to do then.
> 
> Shame on hamas.  Because they keep firing "Bottle Rockets" into Israel, thing bring destruction down on their own people.  Well, hopefully with the death of Mansi today, and hopefully a few more of his terrorist kind tommorow,  The war will be over soon.


I can't argue with that - they indeed invited the aggression.  But Israel violated the truce by not allowing food, medicine and energy into Gaza, not to mention the billions of dollars they owe to Palestine.

Nothing Israel did was intended to even attempt to make peace.  They sucessfully provoked the Palestianians. 

Israel has nothing to be proud of. They could not stand by themselves if they had to.  They're weak, and lucky that we need them as a base int he Middle East.

----------


## angelatc

> Yeah 5 times a day 
> 
> 6:20 AM
> 7:32 AM
> 12:36 PM 
> 3:20 PM
> 5:39 PM
> 6:52 PM
> 
> Time changes daily.


There you are! Thank you, sir!

----------


## Benny45

> I can't argue with that - they indeed invited the aggression.  But Israel violated the truce by not allowing food, medicine and energy into Gaza, not to mention the billions of dollars they owe to Palestine.
> 
> Nothing Israel did was intended to even attempt to make peace.  They sucessfully provoked the Palestianians. 
> 
> Israel has nothing to be proud of. They could not stand by themselves if they had to.  They're weak, and lucky that we need them as a base int he Middle East.


Hamas never stopped firing rockets during the cease fire, hamas never stopped smuggling in arms during the cease fire.  Hamas does what their master in Iran tell them to.  They could care less about the lives of civilians in Israel or Gaza.

Oh well, you just want to nuke the whole middle east anyway.  You are a true person of peace.

----------


## angelatc

> Hamas never stopped firing rockets during the cease fire, hamas never stopped smuggling in arms during the cease fire.  Hamas does what their master in Iran tell them to.  They could care less about the lives of civilians in Israel or Gaza.
> 
> Oh well, you just want to nuke the whole middle east anyway.  You are a true person of peace.


Oh please. Hamas smuggled so many arms that they are shooting rockets that don't even damage the buildings they hit.

Israel, on the other hand, smuggled an entire nuclear program in violation of every rule of nuclear armament that exists.

----------


## Benny45

> Oh please. Hamas smuggled so many arms that they are shooting rockets that don't even damage the buildings they hit..


But they kill the people they hit.

----------


## angelatc

> But they kill the people they hit.


What's the count now? 800 to 13?  And either none or one of the 13 were dead before Israel started in.

It's too bad Israel can't be bothered to actually talk. They seem to have copied our foreign policy, which is simply "bullies rule!"

----------


## Benny45

> What's the count now? 800 to 13?  And either none or one of the 13 were dead before Israel started in.
> 
> It's too bad Israel can't be bothered to actually talk. They seem to have copied our foreign policy, which is simply "bullies rule!"



Only 13?  Whats the magic number before you start protecting your own people....50, 100, 1000?  Please let me know.

So let me get this straight then, Hamas keeps firing at its neighbor (who owns a much bigger gun), and brings destruction down on its own people. Yep, I bet the people of gaza are loving the idea of Hamas and its rockets now.

----------


## pinkmandy

A tank ran over a 5 month old baby today. So yeah, they kill the ones they hit.  No biggie, right? It's not like the non-Jewish baby was a member of the master race, so ordained by God himself.

----------


## angelatc

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154826952369919.html




> .....on June 19, 2008, Hamas and Israel commenced a six-month truce. Neither side complied perfectly. Israel refused to substantially ease the suffocating siege of Gaza imposed in June 2007. Hamas permitted sporadic rocket fire -- typically after Israel killed or seized Hamas members in the West Bank, where the truce did not apply. Either one or no Israelis were killed (reports differ) by rockets in the half year leading up to the current attack.
> 
> Israel then broke the truce on Nov. 4, raiding the Gaza Strip and killing a Palestinian. Hamas retaliated with rocket fire; Israel then killed five more Palestinians. In the following days, Hamas continued rocket fire -- yet still no Israelis died. Israel cannot claim self-defense against this escalation, because it was provoked by Israel's own violation.

----------


## angelatc

> A tank ran over a 5 month old baby today. So yeah, they kill the ones they hit.  No biggie, right? It's not like the non-Jewish baby was a member of the master race, so ordained by God himself.


Waiting for Benny to utter "human sheild" in 3....2....

----------


## Benny45

> A tank ran over a 5 month old baby today. So yeah, they kill the ones they hit.  No biggie, right? It's not like the non-Jewish baby was a member of the master race, so ordained by God himself.


War is a terrible thing.  Its especially sad when children die.  I would love both sides to live next to each other peacefully.  Shame on Hamas for bringing this destruction down on Gaza.

----------


## Benny45

> Waiting for Benny to utter "human sheild" in 3....2....


Coming from somebody that has admitted in wanting to nuke the entire region and kill millions.  You are amazing.

----------


## Benny45

> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154826952369919.html



Please, if you a going to post fiction, at least mention it was written by a Palestinian.

----------


## angelatc

> Coming from somebody that has admitted in wanting to nuke the entire region and kill millions.  You are amazing.


No, I do not want to nuke the region. I want them to nuke each other and just get it over with.

They've been fighting for 2,000 years. Obviously they're not ever going to settle their perceived wrongs.

 I've been alive for 45 years and I am already tired of the whining about who did what to whom.  I have no delusions that they'll ever stop peacefully. I just wish they'd stop, or at least, that America would stay out of it.

Stop putting governments into play, stop giving Israel weapons and money, stop negotiating truces....just pull out and let them fight, since that's apparently the only communication device they have.

----------


## angelatc

> Please, if you a going to post fiction, at least mention it was written by a Palestinian.


Prove it wrong. Attacking the messenger is fallacious rebuttal.

ETA: And isn't the WSJ a Jewish owned publication?

----------


## pinkmandy

> War is a terrible thing.  Its especially sad when children die.  I would love both sides to live next to each other peacefully.  Shame on Hamas for bringing this destruction down on Gaza.


War is an unnecessary thing- unless of course you want something that isn't yours and the people won't give it to you. You have to want it pretty bad to kill for it but I guess that's what God's chosen people believe in. Killing children for land. After occupying their land for decades and starving them awhile first. Evil damn zionists...

War is a terrible thing. How caveman.

----------


## Benny45

> No, I do not want to nuke the region. I want them to nuke each other and just get it over with.


So one second your screaming about "human shields", and next you hoping everybody on both sides die. Hmm, how do you spell hypocrite.

----------


## pinkmandy

Life in occupied Palestine- part one of six. By an American Jewish woman who grew up being fed the msm propaganda that too many Americans still believe. Instead of eating the garbage up and spitting it back out on message boards like a good brainwashed citizen she got off her ass and found out for herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecVIaqfdALs

----------


## Benny45

> War is an unnecessary thing- unless of course you want something that isn't yours and the people won't give it to you. You have to want it pretty bad to kill for it but I guess that's what God's chosen people believe in. Killing children for land. After occupying their land for decades and starving them awhile first. Evil damn zionists...
> 
> War is a terrible thing. How caveman.



Yes, the peaceful members of Hamas and Islamic Jihad are just misunderstood.  Ha, your funny.

----------


## Benny45

> Life in occupied Palestine- part one of six. By an American Jewish woman who grew up being fed the msm propaganda that too many Americans still believe. Instead of eating the garbage up and spitting it back out on message boards like a good brainwashed citizen she got off her ass and found out for herself.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecVIaqfdALs


Part 1 or 6?  Wow, I will wait for the Cliff notes.

----------


## Zolah

> Hamas never stopped firing rockets during the cease fire, hamas never stopped smuggling in arms during the cease fire.  Hamas does what their master in Iran tell them to.  They could care less about the lives of civilians in Israel or Gaza.




1063 rockets fired during the 4 and a half months before the cease fire
19 rockets fired during the first 4 and a half months of the cease fire (3 of those rockets didn't reach Israel, exploding in Gaza)

My maths isn't great, but if I'm right then that's a 98% decrease in rockets fired during the cease fire, considering that we're talking about Hamas here, you have to admit that that is an impressive decrease in illegal rocket attacks. 

And the increase in rocket fire from November 5th (ironically fireworks night) was reportedly a response to this:




> Despite Israel not lifting its blockade, the cease-fire succeeded in bringing calm until November 4. On that day, the Jewish state shattered the agreement by invading Gaza with tanks and troops in an offensive that killed seven Hamas members. The raid prompted Gazan fighters to resume rocket fire into southern Israel.

----------


## angelatc

> Life in occupied Palestine- part one of six. By an American Jewish woman who grew up being fed the msm propaganda that too many Americans still believe. Instead of eating the garbage up and spitting it back out on message boards like a good brainwashed citizen she got off her ass and found out for herself.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecVIaqfdALs


Yes, I had an Jewsih internet acquaintance who lived in Israel and eventually left in disgust to come back to America.  I lost touch with her, but she saw this coming 10 years ago.

----------


## Benny45

Zolah, what is the source for your pretty graph?

----------


## Benny45

> Yes, I had an Jewsih internet acquaintance who lived in Israel and eventually left in disgust to come back to America.  I lost touch with her, but she saw this coming 10 years ago.


Thank goodness she got out before your master plan of having millions of people die in a nuke explosion.

----------


## angelatc

> My maths isn't great, but if I'm right then that's a 98% decrease in rockets fired during the cease fire, considering that we're talking about Hamas here, you have to admit that that is an impressive decrease in illegal rocket attacks.


And, according to the WSJ article, almost all of those were in response to attacks on Hamas on the West Bank.

----------


## Benny45

> And, according to the WSJ article, almost all of those were in response to attacks on Hamas on the West Bank.



You mean the article written by a Palestinian.  Hmm, excuse me while I laugh.

----------


## angelatc

> Zolah, what is the source for your pretty graph?


There goes Benny again! He can't make a real argument, so he tries to attack the source.

----------


## angelatc

> You mean the article written by a Palestinian.  Hmm, excuse me while I laugh.


Published by a Jew though...and I notice you haven't been able to rebut it. 

 Not that truth matters when you have an agenda to promote, I guess.

----------


## Benny45

> There goes Benny again! He can't make a real argument, so he tries to attack the source.


Yep, there I go again.  Asking what the source of a news story is.  Your right, I guess I should just take the word of Zolah.

----------


## Benny45

> Published by a Jew though...and I notice you haven't been able to rebut it. 
> 
>  Not that truth matters when you have an agenda to promote, I guess.


Who published it?

----------


## Zolah

> Zolah, what is the source for your pretty graph?


I was hoping you'd ask 

It's an Israeli website, the banner reads...The Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center (IICC)

Homepage here: http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/site/home/default.asp

And their page on the 'Summary of Rocket Fire and Mortar Shelling in 2008' where I took the graph from is here: http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...f/ipc_e007.pdf

----------


## angelatc

> Who published it?


Do you not know how to use Google?

----------


## Benny45

> Do you not know how to use Google?


Who do you think published it?

----------


## angelatc

> Who do you think published it?


The link might provide a clue. I am assuming you're not related to Einstein, are you?

----------


## Benny45

> I was hoping you'd ask 
> 
> It's an Israeli website, the banner reads...The Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center (IICC)
> 
> Homepage here: http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/site/home/default.asp
> 
> And their page on the 'Summary of Rocket Fire and Mortar Shelling in 2008' where I took the graph from is here: http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...f/ipc_e007.pdf



Right from the very pdf file.........."In total, 362 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel during the lull in the fighting."  If 362 rockets were fired at the house my children slept in, I might be just a tad upset and ready to defend myself.

Interesting, since you like that website so much, why didn't you post some other stories from that website.  I like this one titled....
"This study examines how Hamas and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip make extensive use of Palestinian civilians as human shields." http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...hamas_e028.htm

----------


## angelatc

> I like this one titled....
> "This study examines how Hamas and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip make extensive use of Palestinian civilians as* human shields."* http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...hamas_e028.htm


Cha-ching!

Nothing deep or original about ol' Benny.

----------


## Benny45

More stuff from Zolahs favorite website.............

On November 4 a series of events  in the Gaza Strip signaled a significant erosion of the lull arrangement. The arrangement which went into effect on June 19, 2008 , initiated a five-month period of relative calm in the Gaza Strip and the western Negev population centers. During the first five months of the arrangement the Palestinian terrorist organizations generally did not carry out terrorist attacks and the IDF has avoided operating within the Gaza Strip. *Hamas and the other terrorist organizations have exploited the quiet created by the lull to continue their military buildup and prepare themselves for the morning after*.

*Following information about Hamas's preparations to abduct IDF soldiers through a tunnel*, the IDF operated near the border. *The operation prevented the planned attack* and killed seven Hamas terrorist operatives. Hamas reacted with massive rocket and mortar shell fire,

Thanks Zolah for the website. I agree with almost everything on it.

----------


## Benny45

> Cha-ching!
> 
> Nothing deep or original about ol' Benny.



Yep, I deal in the truth.  Which is something apparently you cant deal with when it doesn't fall in line with the side you are rooting for.

----------


## Zolah

> Right from the very pdf file.........."In total, 362 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel during the lull in the fighting."  If 362 rockets were fired at the house my children slept in, I might be just a tad upset and ready to defend myself.
> 
> Interesting, since you like that website so much, why didn't you post some other stories from that website.  I like this one titled....
> "This study examines how Hamas and the other terrorist organizations in the Gaza Strip make extensive use of Palestinian civilians as human shields." http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...hamas_e028.htm


If you wouldn't mind responding to any of the points of my posts could you do that please.

----------


## angelatc

Yawn. Benny, you're not interesting enough tonight to keep me awake.

You're just a broken record -  "Israel is always right. Israel is always right."

I can't tape a penny to your head, so I will just say goodnight.

----------


## Benny45

> Yawn. Benny, you're not interesting enough tonight to keep me awake.
> 
> You're just a broken record -  "Israel is always right. Israel is always right."
> 
> I can't tape a penny to your head, so I will just say goodnight.


I don't think Israel is always right, but what I found out here tonight, you are almost always wrong. Goodnight

----------


## ronpaulhawaii



----------


## Benny45

> If you wouldn't mind responding to any of the points of my posts could you do that please.


Which points?  You seem to post some information on the amount of rocket fire.  I have responded with the number of rockets Hamas fired during its "truce" and the reasoning for the latest escalation.  Hey, its the website that you brought to my attention.

----------


## raiha

> Shame on Hamas for bringing this destruction down on Gaza


Has anyone noticed the similarity in this statement and the phenomena the perpertrator has of blaming the rape victim? "She asked for it!" kind of thing.

I can't get the real life thing happening here. Do you think its cos I'm in another country? I think it's great that some of you can identify whats going on in the footage through your own military expertise.

----------


## Benny45

> 


Hey, maybe it was one of the bombs that killed the Hamas terrorist Mansi today.  I will sleep a little better tonight knowing he has departed this world.  Bed time.

----------


## Benny45

> Has anyone noticed the similarity in this statement and the phenomena the perpertrator has of blaming the rape victim? "She asked for it!" kind of thing.
> 
> I can't get the real life thing happening here. Do you think its cos I'm in another country? I think it's great that some of you can identify whats going on in the footage through your own military expertise.



Yes, its just like a rape victim. Minus ofcourse the thousands of rockets, and the years of suicide bombing.  But its just like it.

----------


## Zolah

> Which points?  You seem to post some information on the amount of rocket fire.  I have responded with the number of rockets Hamas fired during its "truce" and the reasoning for the latest escalation.  Hey, its the website that you brought to my attention.


I offered facts on the cease fire without any prejudice, backed up by a very clearly unbiased website, as a response to a comment you made about the cease fire.

You responded by appealing to emotion with the "if X amount of rockets fell on MY house" fallacy whilst completely ignoring the points I made (those points being that Hamas respected the truce, Israel didn't keep up their end of the bargain (they didn't stop the blockade of food, aid, medicine supplies on Gaza or open the borders), and also the reason for the increase in rocket fire in November was a response to Israel breaking the cease fire on 4th November (unprovoked military incursion into Gaza killing Palestinians, despite the claims of the reason behind the incursion, it was the death of the cease fire according to Hamas) and the increase in rocket fire in November and December being used as a reason for the start of Operation Cast Lead according to Israeli officials whilst disregarding the military incursion by Israel in November.

Of course, ignoring anything negative about Israel and deflecting conversations away from the issues being discussed are nothing new for you.

----------


## Ex Post Facto

More bombings lots of smoldering buildings.

----------


## tremendoustie

> Yes, its just like a rape victim. Minus ofcourse the thousands of rockets, and the years of suicide bombing.  But its just like it.


Yes, hamas is not innocent. The suicide bombings and rockets were evil.

But, shame on Israel for destroying Gaza. They are the ones doing it, and there is nothing targeted, or proportional about it.

If you smack me in the face, and I blow up your apartment block, I cannot then say, "shame on you for bringing this destruction down on your apartment block". The shame is on me. 

There were days in the past when the shame was on Hamas. Today, the shame is on Israel.

----------


## fj45lvr

One thing for sure is that regardless of how much of  OR how many of Hamas and Gaza are destroyed their will be retaliation (which of course the zionists know)....this only fulfills their intentions of NEVER having a meaningful peace (but how could there be meaningful peace when Israel braggedly flaunts living on STOLEN LAND.   

Albert Einstein and a host of other fellow jews have warned and are warning them against the lament they will go through.  

There are more than 1 way to achieve goals in life, Israel breaking cease fires isn't one of them.

----------


## fj45lvr

do they normally have Iraeli TV on this link??  no more rooftop camera???

----------


## dannno

Benny45, do you think that the Palestinians have the right to defend their life and property that was theirs* to begin with*, *and then* officially given to them by the UN? I'm not big on the UN, but I am big on the fact that it was their land to begin with. 

Your problem is that you only look at the situation from one side. You don't understand that it is the Palestinians defending themselves against Israel's onslaught of blockades, land grabs, the occupation, the checkpoints, the attacks.. you are completely blinded to reality. 

Jon Stewart is Jewish, and on the Daily Show last week and played a clip from a Neocon who made the analogy of what would someone do if there was an emotionally disturbed individual knocking on the door of their apartment yelling that they were going to kill you... would that person want the police to send 1 officer, a "proportional response", or would you want them to send the force necessary to restrain the individual safely?

Jon Stewart's response was, "I don't know, am I forcing that individual to live in my hallway? Do I make them go through checkpoints every time they have to take a sh%t?"

When one society takes land from another and then further dehumanizes and controls that  society, then the controlling society needs to expect that they will be defending themselves and their land, by whatever means they are able to do so. It's the basic concept of "blowback", and you don't seem to comprehend the idea at all, not one iota. Israel is wrong because Palestine has taken nothing from Israel and Israel has taken everything from Palestine. It's that simple. Palestine can justify their actions because they are defending their life and property while Israel cannot. That is why you don't $#@!ing take other people's sh%t. It is actually a really good life lesson.

----------


## angelatc

> do they normally have Iraeli TV on this link??  no more rooftop camera???


Is it Israeli TV ?!? I assumed it was Palestinian TV.

But no, they do not usually have it.

----------


## Sandra

I'll bet Benny is in the US. Anyone this supportive of Israel would be man enough to get over there and help. Yet he types  as if he will "sleep better" now that there is one less Hamas leader?

----------


## dannno

> I'll bet Benny is in the US. Anyone this supportive of Israel would be man enough to get over there and help. Yet he types  as if he will "sleep better" now that there is one less Hamas leader?


Well the biggest problem I can see is that Benny values the lives of Jewish people over that of Palestinians. It's a really sickening disease that he has, and for that reason I don't know if we will ever be able to change his mind.

----------


## pinkmandy

> I'll bet Benny is in the US. Anyone this supportive of Israel would be man enough to get over there and help. Yet he types  as if he will "sleep better" now that there is one less Hamas leader?


Nah, he's a paid shill. A zionist troll. Maybe even one of God's chosen trolls.  How lucky for the tubes. We should be honored because he graces us with his presence and he should be given a free pass to say and do whatever he deems he must to protect his status and further the cause.  

Wonder how much he makes? I'd bet he jumps all over the net all day long spouting the same propaganda. He's probably staying so busy he doesn't have time to actually have a thoughtful conversation at any one place as evidenced by his demonstrated lack of thought here. His ISP probably tracks back to AIPAC or something.

----------


## fj45lvr

fighting is the heaviest I have heard it since tuning in 4 days ago....constant gunfire

----------


## RSLudlum

> fighting is the heaviest I have heard it since tuning in 4 days ago....constant gunfire


You got a connection?  I haven't been able to get one today.

----------


## angelatc

> You got a connection?  I haven't been able to get one today.


I had one earlier. but I just tried to tune it in and I can't connect either.




> Maybe even one of God's chosen trolls.


You and Dannno are cracking me up today!

----------


## olehounddog

I don't have a connection.

----------


## fj45lvr

I got the feed from another site....but it could be "taped" for all I know, since it doesn't say "gaza live" on it...it does say "Ramattan" however the same as old feed linked here in OP.

found feed at: http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2

or

http://scientol0gy.org/

----------


## Ex Post Facto

Thanks for the new link.

----------


## nodope0695

Looking at it now at 3:30 am EST, and heard some brief gunfire.  Also some guy on a radio speaking arabic...but over all, things seem calm.  I don't see any smoke, and all I hear is normal traffic sounds...must be about mid-morning there now.

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

Wow. theres a huge fire now.  Looks like the attack has moved closer to the cam.

----------


## Dojo

If you want to see the economic hearings (you just missed Ron Paul) AND keep an eye on Gaza go here............ http://www.weatherserver.net/multifeed.htm

----------


## angelatc

> Wow. theres a huge fire now.  Looks like the attack has moved closer to the cam.


Yes, that's a big one.

----------


## angelatc

What is that burning thing in the sky?

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

Pretty anti-climactic.  There was no huge 'splosion at the end.

----------


## angelatc

Yes, that thing, thanks! I am ok that there was no explosion even though I was expecting one....I wonder if it was a flare?

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

> Yes, that thing, thanks! I am ok that there was no explosion even though I was expecting one....I wonder if it was a flare?


I think its a visual representation of the Obama presidency.  Starts off with a bang, shoots into the sky, lights up the night in troubled times, then slowly fizzles out and hits the ground with a thud and helps destroy the country.

----------


## angelatc

> I think its a visual representation of the Obama presidency.  Starts off with a bang, shoots into the sky, lights up the night in troubled times, then slowly fizzles out and hits the ground with a thud and helps destroy the country.


You think that there will be a thud?

----------


## RSLudlum

old feed back on

----------


## nodope0695

> Pretty anti-climactic. There was no huge 'splosion at the end.


Thats a parachute flare, used to light up an area - they don't go boom, they help target and aim the things that do go boom.

----------


## nodope0695

> What is that burning thing in the sky?


was a parachute flare used to illuminate an area.

----------


## RickyJ

> Pretty anti-climactic.  There was no huge 'splosion at the end.


Sorry your show was ruined. 

Damn, people are getting killed left and right and you complain about not seeing it happen? WTH?

----------


## nodope0695

Feed is dead....won't play anymore.  Don't know if its my connection, or if it was cut off at the source.

----------


## angelatc

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...30:00%20-%202k

This is working right now. ETA - sporadically. The combat is much, much closer to the camera than it has been.

Also, another working link: http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2

----------


## angelatc

> Sorry your show was ruined. 
> 
> Damn, people are getting killed left and right and you complain about not seeing it happen? WTH?


He was right. Watching it fall was like a horror show, and we were waiting for the mother to blow some stuff up.  Didn't happen, but it fizzled out so slow that there wasn't even a wave of relief either. It was weird.

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

> He was right. Watching it fall was like a horror show, and we were waiting for the mother to blow some stuff up.  Didn't happen, but it fizzled out so slow that there wasn't even a wave of relief either. It was weird.


Seriously.  The thing to _forever_ to hit the ground, then it just fizzled out and didnt blow up.

I sort of figured it was a flare when 30 seconds in it had only dropped about half way down the screen

----------


## Sandra

What are they shouting from the loudspeaker?

----------


## Roxi

i watched a reporter get shot several times yesterday (not on this feed).... it was pretty sick, I don't want to see anymore, but yet i can't stop checking the camera.

someone also posted pics on facebook (from gaza)that would make rotten.com look like the disney channel

----------


## angelatc

> What are they shouting from the loudspeaker?


I wondered that too. It doesn't sound like the morning prayer does.

ETA - I wish I could watch this on my TV so I could step away from the laptop for a few minutes.  Every time I go to the laundry room I hear a noise and end up back here.

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

> i watched a reporter get shot several times yesterday (not on this feed).... it was pretty sick, I don't want to see anymore, but yet i can't stop checking the camera.
> 
> someone also posted pics on facebook (from gaza)that would make rotten.com look like the disney channel


what feed was that?

----------


## tropicangela

> Seriously.  The thing to _forever_ to hit the ground, then it just fizzled out and didnt blow up.
> 
> I sort of figured it was a flare when 30 seconds in it had only dropped about half way down the screen


TIME is saying it was a flare.  http://www.time.com/time/photogaller...820627,00.html

----------


## Danke

Lot's of bombing going on now.

----------


## Sandra

OK, now what I saw on You Tube of what a cluster bomb is... they're using clusterbombs.

----------


## Ex Post Facto

Usually it's pretty quiet at night...not tonight.

----------


## Sandra

CNN said that our camera source is a target! They are trying to get to the feeds!

----------


## devil21

They aren't messing around tonite are they.

Feed is a lot choppier than previous ones.  Is it smooth for you all?

----------


## Sandra

Nope, pretty choppy here too. In and out actually.

----------


## nodope0695

Was pretty heavy fighting earlier....pretty intense.  The dude operating the cam is pretty brave to be next to a window when that stuff is going on.

----------


## Sandra

Something's going on, I haven't heard the first sound in 30 minutes.

----------


## nodope0695

> Something's going on, I haven't heard the first sound in 30 minutes.


Yeah, hearing explosions/tank fire now....cam's just sitting there.

----------


## nodope0695

> TIME is saying it was a flare. http://www.time.com/time/photogaller...820627,00.html


Yes, flares. Parachute flares are usually dropped by aircraft, or launched by artillary. Just a big, longer burning version of a marine flare, but with super white light.  Classified 1.4 explosives, they're simply put, a military firework.  

They are used to illuminate the battle ground so that forward observes can direct artillary fire on targets, or so that ground forces (infantry, tanks) can see the enemy positions. Of course it also gives away your position too, but that's remedied by utilizing enough firepower to keep your enemy's head down. 

Find them
Fix them (supress their fire)
Flank them
Finish them

----------


## Sandra

Getting very close.

----------


## nodope0695

WOW!! Big "BOOM" just now.  Lots of smoke today too....with the camera dude would pan around a little bit.

----------


## RSLudlum

Does anybody know at what scale Hamas' retaliation has been, eg number of rockets launched into Israel, numbers of Israeli deaths attributed to Hamas during the conflict, etc.?

----------


## nodope0695

Damn, some of those explosions are close to the camera!! Battle is heavy this moring.  Also a decide lack of traffic noise unlike the last couple of days....

Anybody know where the cam is at? The post with the map puts it at the Islamic University or thereabouts....I google earthed it, and that's the area shown on the map on that earlier post.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Does anybody know at what scale Hamas' retaliation has been, eg number of rockets launched into Israel, numbers of Israeli deaths attributed to Hamas during the conflict, etc.?


http://gazabodycount.com/2009/01/14/...lestinian-984/

Israeli 13 - Palestinian 984

----------


## RSLudlum

> http://gazabodycount.com/2009/01/14/...lestinian-984/
> 
> Israeli 13 - Palestinian 984



thanks for the link. 

So I see they have been using white phosphorous among other indiscriminate weaponery.

----------


## tropicangela

> Yes, flares. Parachute flares are usually dropped by aircraft, or launched by artillary. Just a big, longer burning version of a marine flare, but with super white light.  Classified 1.4 explosives, they're simply put, a military firework.  
> 
> They are used to illuminate the battle ground so that forward observes can direct artillary fire on targets, or so that ground forces (infantry, tanks) can see the enemy positions. Of course it also gives away your position too, but that's remedied by utilizing enough firepower to keep your enemy's head down. 
> 
> Find them
> Fix them (supress their fire)
> Flank them
> Finish them



Interesting.  Why don't they just wait till daylight?

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

I dont see anything, but i hear traffic, and birds chirping.

----------


## angelatc

The radio announced this morning that the people in south Gaza were trying to flee, but there's no where for them to go.

----------


## angelatc

Are you listening to this? The guy just said that capitalism always ends up killing people and its days are coming to an end.

----------


## Sandra

CNN said they feared Ramattan TV was one of the targets since Israel banned any coverage from inside Gaza. It looks like they are making their way to the station.

----------


## angelatc

The Israeli Supreme Court ruled that Israel had to allow journalists into Gaza. The military refused.

Shows who is really in charge, I think.

----------


## nodope0695

> CNN said they feared Ramattan TV was one of the targets since Israel banned any coverage from inside Gaza. It looks like they are making their way to the station.


Just before I left work, the cameraman picked up the camera and walked around the suite where all the journalists are mingling around....perhaps so that Israel knows that there are civilians in there and not to target it....I dunno, just a thought.

----------


## nodope0695

> The Israeli Supreme Court ruled that Israel had to allow journalists into Gaza. The military refused.
> 
> Shows who is really in charge, I think.


Well there's journalists in there, but almost all arab I'm sure...or those who were able to sneak in.

----------


## nodope0695

> Interesting.  Why don't they just wait till daylight?



Suprise....can't see you coming when it's dark.  But from the looks of the webcam, they're fighting in daylight too....

----------


## angelatc

> Well there's journalists in there, but almost all arab I'm sure...or those who were able to sneak in.


I think those guys were probably already there. Israel isn't allowing anybody to leave either.  

And i am not sure that clip was live, because they seemed to have a translation of a news conference on as the audio portion.

----------


## Sandra

> I think those guys were probably already there. Israel isn't allowing anybody to leave either.  
> 
> And i am not sure that clip was live, because they seemed to have a translation of a news conference on as the audio portion.


It's the Ramattan station crew.

----------


## angelatc

Oh no - lost my feed. eta - ok back now.

Are those bombs making things explode? I don't hear planes .

----------


## nodope0695

> Oh no - lost my feed.


Yep, must be time to pray again.....

----------


## nodope0695

> I think those guys were probably already there. Israel isn't allowing anybody to leave either.


Yeah, good point, I guess its not like they have a choice of leaving when they're surrounded by infantry and tanks...

----------


## Sandra

Lost feed.

----------


## angelatc

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.a...30:00%20-%202k

This one is still up for me.

----------


## fj45lvr

> CNN said they feared Ramattan TV was one of the targets since Israel banned any coverage from inside Gaza. It looks like they are making their way to the station.


 
yeah, I kind of call BS on this though...I think it is EASILY safe to say that if the IDF wanted the feed gone it could be within 5 minutes.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> yeah, I kind of call BS on this though...I think it is EASILY safe to say that if the IDF wanted the feed gone it could be within 5 minutes.


I was thinking this as well... It is a tall building, though. Perhaps the potential collateral damage from a surgical strike has something to do with it...

----------


## Sandra

> I was thinking this as well... It is a tall building, though. Perhaps the potential collateral damage from a surgical strike has something to do with it...



yeah, since they've destroyed every other feed as well as the buildings they were broadcast from. I don't know if this is the Ramattan building or an altenate location.

----------


## Benny45

Said Siam, the head of Hamas security service killed in Gaza today. Live by the bomb, die by the bomb.

----------


## Benny45

In addition, Mahmoud Watfah the head of Hamas military wing was also killed today.  Good job IDF

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

hey Benny, you mis-spelled "Interior Minister"

----------


## Benny45

> hey Benny, you mis-spelled "Interior Minister"


Who cares, he is still dead.  He had plenty of blood on his hands.

----------


## Sandra

All of a sudden Israel knows who these people are? Why just 3 days ago they claimed that Hamas had unnamed secret officers and didn't know who to target.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Who cares, he is still dead.  He had plenty of blood on his hands.


He may have had blood on his hands, but the Zionists (and, by extension, us) are swimming in it 




> So far 1,010 Palestinians have died, *including 315 children and 95 women*, Dr Moawiya Hassanein, head of Gaza's medical emergency services, told the Guardian. The number of injured after 19 days of fighting stood at 4,700, he said. On the Israeli side, 13 people have died, among them three civilians, and four soldiers accidentally killed by their own troops.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ts-gaza-israel

----------


## Benny45

> All of a sudden Israel knows who these people are? Why just 3 days ago they claimed that Hamas had unnamed secret officers and didn't know who to target.


Actually, Israel has always known the thugs that lead hamas.

----------


## Benny45

> He may have had blood on his hands, but the Zionists (and, by extension, us) are swimming in it


Actually, he doesn't have blood on his hands anymore, he is dead and in hell.  Good job IDF.

----------


## dannno

> Actually, Israel has always known the thugs that lead hamas.


Because they funded them and propped them up as an opposition force to Fatah, right?

----------


## Danke

> He may have had blood on his hands, but the Zionists (and, by extension, us) are swimming in it


Hey, but they only had to murder several hundred children in the last few weeks to get to these Hamas members.

The IDF is that good.

----------


## Benny45

> Because they funded them and propped them up as an opposition force to Fatah, right?


Um, yeah right.  Conspiracy nuts like you aside, I say who cares, as long as the IDF can hunt them all down now.

----------


## Benny45

> Hey, but they only had to murder several hundred children in the last few weeks to get to these Hamas leaders.
> 
> The IDF is that good.



Yeah, its unfortunate that Hamas wont come out and fight.  Instead they lob missles into another country from civilian locations, and cry about it when the other side shoots back.

Hamas is nothing but a bunch of cowards, who are taking a nasty beating now.  Every single Palestinian that has died can be blamed on Hamas.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Hey, but they only had to murder several hundred children in the last few weeks to get to these Hamas members.
> 
> The IDF is that good.


Yeah, and only 40% of the IDFs fatalities have been self-inflicted...

----------


## Sandra

> Um, yeah right.  Conspiracy nuts like you aside, I say who cares, as long as the IDF can hunt them all down now.


Let me guess.... you're a teenager and you slept through history class. Did you get your GED? To make that statement shows how uneducated some neo cons are. I'll bet the other IDF supporters are praying you shut your mouth. Embarrassing!

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Yeah, its unfortunate that Hamas wont come out and fight.  Instead they lob missles into another country from civilian locations, and cry about it when the other side shoots back.
> 
> Hamas is nothing but a bunch of cowards, who are taking a nasty beating now.  Every single Palestinian that has died can be blamed on Hamas.


"missiles" ??? what "missles"??? methinks you are lying. You gotta link to these "missles"? or are you talking about the homemade rockets, that didn't even kill the occupants of a car one hit, yesterday?

sheesh...

----------


## Benny45

> Let me guess.... you're a teenager and you slept through history class. Did you get your GED? To make that statement shows how uneducated some neo cons are. I'll bet the other IDF supporters are praying you shut your mouth. Embarrassing!


Yep, coming from a history, and current events genius like you, its kind of pathetic.  Shouldn't you be complaining about Megaphones or some other crap.  Your posts are constantly filled with nonsense, complete fabrications, and total inaccuracies.  You also consistently lie.  My favorite was the claim of a brother in the IDF who admitted that Israel was shooting rackets at itself.  I bet your a disgruntled 11 year old that never leaves his room.

----------


## angelatc

> Actually, Israel has always known the thugs that lead hamas.


They should - they hired their predecessors.

----------


## angelatc

Does anybody have a feed that still works?

----------


## Benny45

> They should - they hired their predecessors.


Thats nice.

----------


## Sandra

> Thats nice.


You have no earthly idea what she's talking about do you. Get back to school!

----------


## Sandra

> Yep, coming from a history, and current events genius like you, its kind of pathetic.  Shouldn't you be complaining about Megaphones or some other crap.  Your posts are constantly filled with nonsense, complete fabrications, and total inaccuracies.  You also consistently lie.  My favorite was the claim of a brother in the IDF who admitted that Israel was shooting rackets at itself.  I bet your a disgruntled 11 year old that never leaves his room.


Case in point.

----------


## Sandra

I've lost my feed too.

----------


## Benny45

> You have no earthly idea what she's talking about do you. Get back to school!


No Sandra, I just don't care.  I am only concerned with their continuous rocket fire, and their want to kill jews.  I say kill them first.  Back to the basement for you.

----------


## Benny45

> I've lost my feed too.


Cant you give us constant battlefield updates from your sources in the IDF?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> They should - they hired their predecessors.


Yes, and the particular dead "thug", Benny is gloating over, was part of a democratically elected gov't  , and all...

----------


## Zolah

http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis_Hamas_history_tied_to_Israel/UPI-82721024445587/2/

----------


## angelatc

> Yes, and the particular dead "thug", Benny is gloating over, was part of a democratically elected gov't  , and all...


Jews don't believe in Democracy. Did you miss the news that the Arabs that live in Israel won't be allowed to vote in elections?

And did you know that it is a crime for Christians to proselytize in Israel? 

They are God's chosen people, you know.

----------


## Benny45

> Yes, and the particular dead "thug", Benny is gloating over, was part of a democratically elected gov't  , and all...


Dont care who elected him.  He still killed people.  I'm happy he wont kill again.

----------


## Benny45

> Jews don't believe in Democracy. Did you miss the news that the Arabs that live in Israel won't be allowed to vote in elections?
> 
> And did you know that it is a crime for Christians to proselytize in Israel? 
> 
> They are God's chosen people, you know.


You mean Israelis right (laughable since I know you hate jews).  Do you know that there are laws in Iran and Saudi Arabia that make it illegal for jews to hold public office or have certain jobs.  Therefore I'm going to say that Muslims hate democracy.

----------


## Benny45

> http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis_Hamas_history_tied_to_Israel/UPI-82721024445587/2/


Dont care.  They are still terrorist thugs. I can only hope the IDF kills the rest before its over.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Dont care.  They are still terrorist thugs. I can only hope the IDF kills the rest before its over.


My, how genocidal of you...

----------


## Zolah

> According to Olmert, he would attend the meeting to explore possibilities for a "diplomatic horizon." An argument then broke out between the prime minister and Netanyahu when the opposition leader accused Olmert of giving in to Abbas.
> 
> To that, Olmert replied, "Netanyahu has gone back to being the same old Netanyahu," and accused him of directly contributing to strengthening the Hamas movement by releasing the movement's founder, Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, during his term as prime minister.
> 
> "Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom," he said, adding that the current political situation in the Palestinian Authority came about "because of the nonsense that was done while Netanyahu was prime minister."


And 5 seconds ago BBC reported from Reuters sources that Hamas has confirmed pre-conditions for a 1-year-truce with Israel - progress at least. I'm sure I don't need to remind you how well behaved Hamas were during the 2008 ceasefire before they were provoked in November, but I'm also sure you don't care, I'm also very sure that I do not know why you're here, Benny, other than to cause confrontations.

----------


## Benny45

> My, how genocidal of you...


Its genocidal that I would like the leadership of a terrorist organization destroyed?  I guess the same thing can be said about the US in its hunt for Al-Qaeda.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> And 5 seconds ago BBC reported from Reuters sources that Hamas has confirmed pre-conditions for a 1-year-truce with Israel - progress at least. I'm sure I don't need to remind you how well behaved Hamas were during the 2008 ceasefire before they were provoked in November, but I'm also sure you don't care, I'm also very sure that I do not know why you're here, Benny, other than to cause confrontations.


Yes, and quite the coincidence that Israel broke the cease-fire on the day Obama was elected...

----------


## angelatc

> You mean Israelis right (laughable since I know you hate jews).  Do you know that there are laws in Iran and Saudi Arabia that make it illegal for jews to hold public office or have certain jobs.  Therefore I'm going to say that Muslims hate democracy.


Oh look, playing the anti-Semite card. 

 Are you saying that the Muslims who live in Israel aren't Israelis?

I am not talking about Muslims. I am talking about Israel, who will only allow Jews to vote in Israel's elections.

That's racist.

----------


## Benny45

> And 5 seconds ago BBC reported from Reuters sources that Hamas has confirmed pre-conditions for a 1-year-truce with Israel - progress at least. I'm sure I don't need to remind you how well behaved Hamas were during the 2008 ceasefire before they were provoked in November, but I'm also sure you don't care, I'm also very sure that I do not know why you're here, Benny, other than to cause confrontations.


Yep, continue to smuggle in arms by the ton, refusal to stop firing rockets, refusing to denounce the charter to eliminate Israel, refusing to give the red cross access to captured Israeli soldier.  Your right, their behavior says a lot.

----------


## ClockwiseSpark

> And 5 seconds ago BBC reported from Reuters sources that Hamas has confirmed pre-conditions for a 1-year-truce with Israel - progress at least. I'm sure I don't need to remind you how well behaved Hamas were during the 2008 ceasefire before they were provoked in November, but I'm also sure you don't care, I'm also very sure that I do not know why you're here, Benny, other than to cause confrontations.


Just look at his posting history. It's quite obvious why he's here.

----------


## Zolah

> Its genocidal that I would like the leadership of a terrorist organization destroyed?  I guess the same thing can be said about the US in its hunt for Al-Qaeda.


You think that 1 million innocent Iraqi civilians deaths in the past 5 years aren't a collassal disaster by the American "war on a tactic that can't be defeated"? The ironic thing about Iraq, of course, is that Al Qaeda didn't exist in Iraq until after it was invaded by USA.

----------


## Benny45

> Oh look, playing the anti-Semite card. 
> 
>  Are you saying that the Muslims who live in Israel aren't Israelis?
> 
> I am not talking about Muslims. I am talking about Israel, who will only allow Jews to vote in Israel's elections.
> 
> That's racist.


Awesome, we have a winner for most idiotic post of the day, and it goes to angelatc.  First she claims "JEWS" hate democracy. Then she claims I am playing the anti-semetic card. Priceless.

Ofcourse you not talking about Muslims.  You have an obsession with Jews and turn a blind eye to the rest of the world. Pathetic.

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## angelatc

> Yep, continue to smuggle in arms by the ton,.


Funny, I don't see any evidence of all those mighty weapons that were allegedly being smuggled in.  

Looks like Israel did them a favor by giving them some rocks to throw.

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## Benny45

> You think that 1 million innocent Iraqi civilians deaths in the past 5 years aren't a collassal disaster by the American "war on a tactic that can't be defeated"? The ironic thing about Iraq, of course, is that Al Qaeda didn't exist in Iraq until after it was invaded by USA.


I never considered the decision to attack Iraq related to the hunt for Al-Qaeda at all.  No comparison.

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## Benny45

> Funny, I don't see any evidence of all those mighty weapons that were allegedly being smuggled in.  
> 
> Looks like Israel did them a favor by giving them some rocks to throw.


You mean the Iranian made and donated rockets and guns.  I think you been listening to the likes of Sandra that have no real clue what its like in the Middle East.

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## angelatc

> Awesome, we have a winner for most idiotic post of the day, and it goes to angelatc.  First she claims "JEWS" hate democracy. Then she claims I am playing the anti-semetic card. Priceless.
> 
> Ofcourse you not talking about Muslims.  You have an obsession with Jews and turn a blind eye to the rest of the world. Pathetic.


Ok - now i see.  Perhaps I should have said the Jewish Israelis. 

You have an obsession with Jews.  I personally abhor collectivism, and this is why.

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## ronpaulhawaii

> Its genocidal that I would like the leadership of a terrorist organization destroyed?  I guess the same thing can be said about the US in its hunt for Al-Qaeda.


I wonder what the ratio of leaders to innocents killed is?  I mean, if you have to kill a thousand innocents to get to 2 or 3 "leaders"... 

And once one considers the majority support for Hamas, evidenced by election results, one can imagine there are thousands of "leaders" in your sights. 

Extrapolate that!, megaphone boy

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## Zolah

> Yep, continue to smuggle in arms by the ton, refusal to stop firing rockets, refusing to denounce the charter to eliminate Israel, refusing to give the red cross access to captured Israeli soldier.  Your right, their behavior says a lot.


What was Israel doing during the cease fire, apart from purchasing weapons from America, continuing military incursions into the West Bank and Gaza and planning the current Operation Cast Lead that has led to the death of over 1,000 civilians and refusing to open the border crossings for people who needed medical assistance, not to mention food/water/medical supplies.

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## angelatc

> You mean the Iranian made and donated rockets and guns.  I think you been listening to the likes of Sandra that have no real clue what its like in the Middle East.


Yeah, I see those things going off all over the place. Iran sure does send some mighty firepower to Hamas. Apparently they're disguised as children, because that seems to be who Israel is targetting.

So, Hamas can't have weapons, but Israel can steal nukes. Got it.

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## dannno

> No Sandra, I just don't care.  I am only concerned with their continuous rocket fire, and their want to kill jews.  I say kill them first.  Back to the basement for you.


*"You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying somebody else's land, that's not defense, call it what you like, it's not defense."* - Noam Chomsky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5031s1MAPY


Jon Stewart (Jewish) had some clips of neocons in the media talking about Israel's right to defend themselves, and one of the pundits said something along the lines of, "If there was an emotionally disturbed individual knocking on the door of your apartment, yelling that he was going to kill you, would you want law enforcement to send 1 officer, a proportional response, or would you want them to send all the force at their disposal?"

Jon Stewart's response: "I guess it depends if I am forcing that guy to live in my hallway? Do I make him go through checkpoints every time he has to take a sh#t?"

He also makes some more interesting comments on the conflict throughout that show, it is the Jan. 5 show and can be seen at hulu.com in it's entirety. There is an interview at the end I'd also suggest you watch.

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## Sandra

Benny is doing what Megaphone instruct him to do. To DIVERT threads . Now seeing that he has already made a troll thread for this subject, and this thread is about the Gaza feed, lets talk about the feed here. 

 Has anyone else been able to get through?

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## angelatc

> Has anyone else been able to get through?


No, but this link gave me a message that said this channel was full.

http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2

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## Sandra

> No, but this link gave me a message that said this channel was full.
> 
> http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2



Yep, that's what I'm getting too. Today my stomach's in knots because it's getting to the more densely populated area. Also more people are taking refuge  where they are being pushed.

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## dannno

> No Sandra, I just don't care.  I am only concerned with their continuous rocket fire, and their want to kill jews.  I say kill them first.  Back to the basement for you.





> The record is fairly clear. You can find it on the Israeli website, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. Israel broke the ceasefire by going into the Gaza and killing six or seven Palestinian militants. At that point—and now I'm quoting the official Israeli website—Hamas retaliated or, in retaliation for the Israeli attack, then launched the missiles.


http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01132009.html



Sandra, Benny can try to detract these threads all day long, but it doesn't matter because he is wrong. He has proven himself to be a tyrant and incapable of understanding the other side of the conflict. He complains about Hamas all day, but doesn't realize that the IDF are the bigger terrorists. They kill more innocent civilians, attack hospitals, schools and UN buildings. They are on the offensive because they are the occupiers. Until he understands this concept, he will continue to make irrational arguments that can be easily destroyed with a little truth, reason and logic.

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## Danke

> ... I'm also very sure that I do not know why you're here, Benny, other than to cause confrontations.


Trolls need to be fed.

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## tropicangela

> Yes, and the particular dead "thug", Benny is gloating over, was part of a democratically elected gov't  , and all...


Spreadin democracy la la lala la

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## Danke

> I wonder what the ratio of leaders to innocents killed is?  I mean, if you have to kill a thousand innocents to get to 2 or 3 "leaders"...


And that sticky thing called blowback.  I bet the IDF is creating more future Hamas type leaders than they are destroying by their current actions.

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## Sandra

They are pulling a Pinochet.

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## Benny45

> Benny is doing what Megaphone instruct him to do. To DIVERT threads . Now seeing that he has already made a troll thread for this subject, and this thread is about the Gaza feed, lets talk about the feed here. 
> 
>  Has anyone else been able to get through?


Look Sandra said her farvorite word, Megaphone. I bet you have posted this word well over a thousand times here. Pathetic

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## dannno

> Look Sandra said her farvorite word, Megaphone. I bet you have posted this word well over a thousand times here. Pathetic


Please address my post that contains the quote:
*

"You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying somebody else's land, that's not defense, call it what you like, it's not defense."* - Noam Chomsky


How can you not understand this basic concept? How? It's so simple. If you can't understand it, then you are a human monster.

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## Sandra

Benny, do have ANYTHING to contribute to this forum? Every post you have ever made was to rail on these members. Every one. Please post on the thread you yourself created. We are talking about the Gaza feed, a subject Megaphone does not want discussed.

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## Zolah

> And that sticky thing called blowback.  I bet the IDF is creating more future Hamas type leaders than they are destroying by their current actions.





> Muhammad Atta, who later is alledged to be the mastermind of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon wrote his martyrdom will on April 18, 1996, the day of the Qana bombings which Muhammad Atta watched from this dorm room in Germany.[26][27] The connection between the Qana bombings and Muhammad Atta's motivation towards martyrdom has been described by both David W. Lesch[28], Juan Cole[29] and Robert Fisk.


^ From wikipedia as I'm too lazy to check the sources given this time  Anyway, I'd suggest reading up on the Qana Massacre in Lebanon during Israel's Operation Grapes of Wrath in 1996. There are parrallels to recent attacks in Gaza - 2 UNRWA schools shelled, UNRWA headquarters still burning today in Gaza city, etc.

The bottom line is Israel's military attacks will undoubtedly lead to more radicalism, as I've been saying since 3 weeks ago on this forum and generally since 5+ years ago.

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## Sandra

Are there any Gaza blogs that are posting in real time?

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## dannno

> Benny, do have ANYTHING to contribute to this forum? Every post you have ever made was to rail on these members. Every one. Please post on the thread you yourself created. We are talking about the Gaza feed, a subject Megaphone does not want discussed.


No, he is incapable of critical thinking and is only able to attack others and talk about rockets... which were a reaction to the ceasefire that Israel broke, if you care about that sort of thing. I don't, really, because the bottom line is that Palestine is occupied and so everything they do is defensive. Everything Israel does is an offensive maneuver. Israel is not capable of defending itself because it is the occupier, cager and tyrant.

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## Benny45

> Please address my post that contains the quote:
> *
> 
> "You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying somebody else's land, that's not defense, call it what you like, it's not defense."* - Noam Chomsky
> 
> 
> How can you not understand this basic concept? How? It's so simple. If you can't understand it, then you are a human monster.


Like I care what Chomsky says. I disagree agree with him.  I also dont care what a stand up comedian like John Stewart thinks.

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## Benny45

> Benny, do have ANYTHING to contribute to this forum? Every post you have ever made was to rail on these members. Every one. Please post on the thread you yourself created. We are talking about the Gaza feed, a subject Megaphone does not want discussed.


Sandra said Megaphone again.  Lets add that to her total of 4,000 times and counting.  Its amazing that somebody like you that has openly lied about having family in the IDF would ever show your face here ever again.  Its pathetic when one has to lie to further their argument.

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## ronpaulhawaii

> ...  Its pathetic when one has to lie to further their argument.


I agree, "missile" boy

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## angelatc

http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2

Back up.

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## Roxi

> what feed was that?


the original video i saw was taken down, this is the same instance from a different camera, you may have to have a facebook account to see it im not sure, but it probably won't be there for long since several people have had their accounts deleted for posting these videos and then the vids are gone, some of them just create new accounts and repost them but whatever...


http://www.facebook.com/video/video....0414576&ref=nf

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## fj45lvr

In 2002, Israeli army chief Moshe Yaalon declared:
 "the Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people." 
For decades Israel has been exercizing with ever-escalating brutality this deliberate strategy to crush through force and starvation a civilian population in rebellion against colonial rule. To Israels vexation, the Palestinians are not playing their part. After sixty years of expulsions, massacres, assassinations of their leaders, colonization, torture, and mass imprisonment, the Palestinians have utterly failed to understand that they are a "defeated people."


the methods the Palestinian resistance has sometimes used are *SURELY* reprehensible, reprehensible resistance has also been typical for anti-colonial resistance movements throughout time, as William Polk shows in his book Violent Politics: A History of Insurgency, Terrorism and Guerilla War from the American Revolution to Iraq


Why bother looking at the symptoms of the problem without Discussing the CORE as Ben Gurion noted "it is simple we have stolen their land"!!!

The Palestinians are not just "rolling over" and "forgetting" as FAST and SUBSERVIANTLY as the American Indians, Maoris, Aboriginees, etc. and etc.

Good for them....maybe in the economic collapse the scales may start to balance out in time (they already are winning in the POPULATION aspect)

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## dannno

> Like I care what Chomsky says. I disagree agree with him.  I also dont care what a stand up comedian like John Stewart thinks.


It doesn't matter what he "thinks" because what he said is logical. Please address why you think he his wrong. He said you can't defend yourself when you are occupying another's territory. It is not defense, period. How can you call it defense when you are on the offense? It doesn't make any sense.

You are a hypocrite. If Israel were being occupied by Palestinians and Israel had more civilian deaths, and Palestine was taking their land, would you be rooting for the Palestinians?? You are so incapable of critical thinking it is absolutely astounding.

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## angelatc

Michael, did you ban Benny?

Now I am worried.  IF there is a law against posting stupid things then my days are numbered.

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## ronpaulhawaii

> Michael, did you ban Benny?
> 
> Now I am worried.  IF there is a law against posting stupid things then my days are numbered.


Yes, I am the tyrant...

I gave him a few days off, he needs to learn to be more careful when spewing propaganda. 

The exact sentence that got the ban was,




> Ok, I will shoot 3000 rockets at your house.


Basically, he was just flooding the forum with low-value posts, but I was patient...

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## Sandra

I got the feed!!!!!

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## devil21

> Yes, I am the tyrant...
> 
> I gave him a few days off, he needs to learn to be more careful when spewing propaganda. 
> 
> The exact sentence that got the ban was,
> 
> Basically, he was just flooding the forum with low-value posts, but I was patient...


Hallelujah!  May I suggest you change it to a permanent ban?  It's one thing if he shows up and debates the issues.  Something entirely different to "carpet bomb" the forum with pro-Israel rah rah crap then disappear.

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## Sandra

It looks like everything's on fire.  They are exterminating I tell ya. This isn't a military campaign.

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## ronpaulhawaii

> It looks like everything's on fire.  They are exterminating I tell ya. This isn't a military campaign.


Which link are you using?

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## angelatc

http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2

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## ronpaulhawaii

> Hallelujah!  May I suggest you change it to a permanent ban?  It's one thing if he shows up and debates the issues.  Something entirely different to "carpet bomb" the forum with pro-Israel rah rah crap then disappear.


I don't think a perma-ban is all that desirable. Many people like to hone their arguments on shills like Benny, some really damning posts are created for the lurkers who may be on the fence, and free speech is a wonderful thing. 

Hopefully, next time he wants to "carpetbomb", he will take any warnings seriously.




> http://switch434-01.castup.net/cunet...4&ar=CH2News_2


Thank you, hope you are not too mad at my tyrannical behavior

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## fj45lvr

I agree that the MEGAPHONE zionists shouldn't be banned.  No matter how much they refuse to look beyond recent events to the ROOT problems.

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## tropicangela

Just heard dogs barking.  Made me cringe.

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## Danke

> I agree that the MEGAPHONE zionists shouldn't be banned.  No matter how much they refuse to look beyond recent events to the ROOT problems.


It really wasn't a ban, just three days off for trolling a thread.

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## nodope0695

> Yeah, its unfortunate that Hamas wont come out and fight. Instead they lob missles into another country from civilian locations, and cry about it when the other side shoots back.
> 
> Hamas is nothing but a bunch of cowards, who are taking a nasty beating now. Every single Palestinian that has died can be blamed on Hamas.


Amen, brother!  Been saying that for some time now....thought I was the only one here who supported Israel....

----------


## nodope0695

> Yes, and quite the coincidence that Israel broke the cease-fire on the day Obama was elected...


Sir, what cease fire?  Hamas never respected the one that was in force.  I know the homemade rockets are a joke, however doesnt' shooting them break the cease fire?  

I must note that Israel has never pushed for the death of Palestine as a nation or people.  In fact, they've made many concessions to the Palestinians, to include moving completely out of the Gaza Strip (before this current fight).  On the other hand, Hamas has made wiping Israel off the map their only mission in life.  Sure, Hamas was "elected" by the folks in Gaza.  However, I doubt they elected them to keep antagonizing Israel.  They voted Hamas in due to promises of money, food, business, stability.  But, as soon as they got into power, Hamas began fighting Israel, first with suicide bombers, then with homemade rockets.

But, I'll go one further.  I may support Israel in this fight, but I also blame Ariel Sharon for inflaming the problems back in 2000 when he stupidly visted the temple mount in Jerusalem.  Things had been relativily calm before that idiotic meneuver.  $#@!s been worse there ever since - and I must place lots of blame on Israel too.  However that doesn't mean I even come close to agreeing with the likes of Hamas who's only stated purpose is the annialation of Israel.

----------


## Zolah

Reposting this...And I'll add the fact that Hamas have laid out conditions to which they would agree a 1-Year-Truce with Israel, as I posted in another thread 5 minutes ago - the conditions being Israel stops military activity in Gaza within a week and the opening of the border crossings for food/water/aid/supplies, etc. 

Several Hamas officials in the recent past have stated on the record that they would agree to 5/10/20 year truces too.



1063 rockets fired during the 4 and a half months before the cease fire
19 rockets fired during the first 4 and a half months of the cease fire (3 of those rockets didn't reach Israel, exploding in Gaza)

My maths isn't great, but if I'm right then that's a 98% decrease in rockets fired during the cease fire, considering that we're talking about Hamas here, you have to admit that that is an impressive decrease in illegal rocket attacks. 

And the increase in rocket fire from November 5th (ironically fireworks night) was reportedly a response to this:




> Despite Israel not lifting its blockade, the cease-fire succeeded in bringing calm until November 4. On that day, the Jewish state shattered the agreement by invading Gaza with tanks and troops in an offensive that killed seven Hamas members. The raid prompted Gazan fighters to resume rocket fire into southern Israel.



Post-script note: I'd like to add that the handful of rockets fired during the ceasefire since it began and until November were thought to be largely the responsibility of the group called Islamic Jihad, can't confirm that though.

----------


## angelatc

Does anybody still have a working feed?

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## angelatc

> They voted Hamas in due to promises of money, food, business, stability.......  However that doesn't mean I even come close to agreeing with the likes of Hamas who's only stated purpose is the annialation of Israel.


Funny, because that first sentence seemed to imply that Hamas indeed had a stated purpose of supplying money, business and stablilty. All things that Israel has refused to allow.

----------


## Philmanoman

> Funny, because that first sentence seemed to imply that Hamas indeed had a stated purpose of supplying money, business and stablilty. All things that Israel has refused to allow.


double standard?double speak?

----------


## Sandra

Is the feed still down?

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## angelatc

No, no feed that I can find.

http://scientol0gy.org/ - that link was posted earlier by fj45lvr.  They do not have any working links, but they have 3 to try and also have a plea for somebody with a satellite dish.

gazafeed

----------


## Mitt Romneys sideburns

Spot the Fox News mic in there, lol

----------

