# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns >  Time to back Gary Johnson?

## PureCommonSense

I was a big fan of Sanford until recently.  Now that that filthy adulterer is out of the picture, how about Gary Johnson.  He's got good pro-liberty values and even opposes the drug war, which many libertarian republicans do not.

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## Kludge

He's alright, but it'll take a lot of hype to interest me in a 2012 presidential candidate unless it's Ron Paul.

Johnson has solid ideals, but his experience (name recognition & perception of competence) is awfully weak.

Hopefully, we can at least find a solid Congressional candidate to endorse. 2010 is looking like a bit of a disappointment for "politics" (a Schiff run is looking increasingly unlikely... Kokesh might be the only decent candidate, and his tax issue is very concerning), though there are solid institutions and people (RPH) progression libertarian ideology. I don't expect much more for 2012.

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## Nathan Hale

While I am solidly behind Gary Johnson in 2012, he needs to get out there and regain his name recognition - and I don't see him making any moves to do so.  Perhaps he's not even interested - the guy lives a very full life.  But, based on my experience, I'd say he needs to really get moving by the beginning of 2010, running the press circuit, so that when the debates start in the beginning of 2011 he's primed and in good position.

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## pacelli

Johnson is a weak public speaker and does not have the "moxie" image required to mobilize a voter base.  He'd need ALOT of skills work and a superior campaign for me to support him.  I agree with him on most of the issues, but, I'm thinking about overall success.  Also, if he is a "reluctant candidate", he will get no donations from me.  I will only financially support a candidate that truly wants to win from day 1.

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## Njon

I was liking Gov. Johnson, too, but apparently a few years ago he started dating another woman and left his wife; see http://bit.ly/vfOyT (PDF).

I didn't trust Gov. Sanford, anyway, due to Bilderberg, but this is just crazy. What's with these guys and their marriages?

I'm thinking it's either Dr. Paul in 2012, or else I'll probably end up voting third party again. In any case, it's the states where we really need to focus: http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin499.htm

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## Brian4Liberty

They have dirt on Johnson too. Don't doubt it for a second.

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## rp08orbust

> 2010 is looking like a bit of a disappointment for "politics" (a Schiff run is looking increasingly unlikely...


How so?  Are you referring to the website that was taken down or anything Peter has actually said?




> Kokesh might be the only decent candidate,


What about Rand Paul or BJ Lawson?




> I don't expect much more for 2012.


I'm hoping to see Ron Paul win the 2010 CPAC straw poll as a positive indication of 2010 prospects for liberty candidates.

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## Elwar

> While I am solidly behind Gary Johnson in 2012, he needs to get out there and regain his name recognition.


Gary Johnson has said that he won't be deciding on a 2012 run until the summer of 2010 (http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/news.php)...this would be a ripe time considering the Congressional elections would be warming up and people would be in the early stages of looking toward 2012.


To start now would burn people out quickly.

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## FrankRep

Gary Johnson hasn't jumped out into the spotlight at all.

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## LibertyEagle

> He's alright, but it'll take a lot of hype to interest me in a 2012 presidential candidate unless it's Ron Paul.
> 
> Johnson has solid ideals, but his experience (name recognition & perception of competence) is awfully weak.
> 
> Hopefully, we can at least find a solid Congressional candidate to endorse. 2010 is looking like a bit of a disappointment for "politics" (a Schiff run is looking increasingly unlikely... Kokesh might be the only decent candidate, and his tax issue is very concerning), though there are solid institutions and people (RPH) progression libertarian ideology. I don't expect much more for 2012.


What about Rand Paul?

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## acptulsa

I see a lot of conventional thinking in this thread.  But we are not living conventional times, right now.  We could make Johnson work, for himself, ourselves and the nation.  But we're going to have to get our heads outside the box to do it.

Even so, I have a nice conventional suggestion for you:  *Paul/Johnson 2012 FTW!!!  W00T!!*




> What about Rand Paul?


I fear that voters fear the untried too much.  Besides, our president will be hamstrung if we don't get him some senators and more represenatives, too!

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## klamath

> I was liking Gov. Johnson, too, but apparently a few years ago he started dating another woman and left his wife; see http://bit.ly/vfOyT (PDF).
> 
> I didn't trust Gov. Sanford, anyway, due to Bilderberg, but this is just crazy. What's with these guys and their marriages?
> 
> I'm thinking it's either Dr. Paul in 2012, or else I'll probably end up voting third party again. In any case, it's the states where we really need to focus: http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin499.htm


Didn't know this. I always thought the Johnson's got divorced first. 
I didn't know the SOB cheating on her was why they broke up.  Well he and Sanford are done in my book. I won't waste my money and effort on either.

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## Cowlesy

Good lord, so is being faithful to one's spouse the minority position for government officials? (sanford/clinton/gingrich/vitter/mcgreevey/hart/foley/spitzer/livingston/ensign etc etc)

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## JoshLowry

> Good lord, so is being faithful to one's spouse the minority position for government officials? (sanford/clinton/gingrich/vitter/mcgreevey/hart/foley/spitzer/livingston/ensign etc etc)


Disappointing...

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## angelatc

> Good lord, so is being faithful to one's spouse the minority position for government officials? (sanford/clinton/gingrich/vitter/mcgreevey/hart/foley/spitzer/livingston/ensign etc etc)


I think it's as much about power as anything.  They have some narcissistic need to constantly be on a quest.  Sexual conquests are just a part of that.

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## angelatc

> I was liking Gov. Johnson, too, but apparently a few years ago he started dating another woman and left his wife; see http://bit.ly/vfOyT (PDF).





> Dee Johnson, 52, said Gary's actions are responsible for the split.
> "My heart is broken with what Gary's done to me but I'm a survivor
> and I'll make it through this."


She didn't make it though.  She died a year later, from a heart related issue.

Maybe a Gingrich/Johnson ticket?

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## gls

> Johnson is a weak public speaker


I like the guy but he needs to hire a speech coach or something if he seriously wants to come onto the national scene. It was difficult listening to him on Freedom Watch because every other word was "um".

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## klamath

> She didn't make it though.  She died a year later, from a heart related issue.
> 
> Maybe a Gingrich/Johnson ticket?


Sad. The woman that built the construction company with him. His Speech at RTR was "I, I, I, I, I. A little to much egotist for me, on top of doing this to his wife.

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## Aratus

yes... i can now see how gary johnson could get more notice & name recognition 
once the d.c area mass media ceases with its normalcy aspected feeding frenzy...

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## Cowlesy

I like his views, but I am sorry, the guy is just too strange.

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## Nathan Hale

> Johnson is a weak public speaker and does not have the "moxie" image required to mobilize a voter base.  He'd need ALOT of skills work and a superior campaign for me to support him.  I agree with him on most of the issues, but, I'm thinking about overall success.  Also, if he is a "reluctant candidate", he will get no donations from me.  I will only financially support a candidate that truly wants to win from day 1.


I doubt he'd be a reluctant candidate.  If he decides to run, he'll probably be the most motivated candidate in the field.  This is, after all, a triathlete mountain climber.

I also disagree that he's a weak speaker.  I've seen him speak and he does well.  He's not a particularly strong public speaker, but IMHO he does better than Ron Paul in the speaking department.

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## Nathan Hale

> I was liking Gov. Johnson, too, but apparently a few years ago he started dating another woman and left his wife; see http://bit.ly/vfOyT (PDF).


This is nothing like the Sanford thing.

For one, it happened after he left office, which means the scandal factor is eliminated.  And after all, it's the scandal that breaks the candidate, not the actual facts of the case.

Second, the two situations are different aside from the overarching similarity of leaving the wife for another woman.

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## klamath

> This is nothing like the Sanford thing.
> 
> For one, it happened after he left office, which means the scandal factor is eliminated.  And after all, it's the scandal that breaks the candidate, not the actual facts of the case.
> 
> Second, the two situations are different aside from the overarching similarity of leaving the wife for another woman.


Sorry it has nothing to do with scandal, it has to do with cheating on his wife whether he was in office or not.  If they didn't get along get a divorce and move on, don't cheat while one partner still thinks they have a marriage.

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## Njon

> This is nothing like the Sanford thing.
> 
> For one, it happened after he left office, which means the scandal factor is eliminated.  And after all, it's the scandal that breaks the candidate, not the actual facts of the case.
> 
> Second, the two situations are different aside from the overarching similarity of leaving the wife for another woman.


I don't care *when* it happened. I'm not talking about strategy; I'm talking about character. How am I supposed to trust a guy to hold a high-ranking office when he couldn't even be faithful to the wife he professed to love?

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## acptulsa

Well, I don't think I could ever vote for Wayne Allen Root for president, but I'd sure love to see him trounce Harry Reid!!

I hate 'lesser of evils' too, but unfortunately, no one's perfect...

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## Njon

> Well, I don't think I could ever vote for Wayne Allen Root for president, but I'd sure love to see him trounce Harry Reid!!


And we have a chance to make that happen: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=197282

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## acptulsa

Saw, that Njon.  Thanks for posting it!

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## Nathan Hale

> Sorry it has nothing to do with scandal, it has to do with cheating on his wife whether he was in office or not.  If they didn't get along get a divorce and move on, don't cheat while one partner still thinks they have a marriage.


Perhaps that's your opinion, but what sinks the candidate in the public eye is the scandal.  Besides which, I don't think we've clearly resolved if Johnson was even cheating - does anybody have a news article from the time that spells it out a little better, the one posted here didn't say much in the way of conclusive evidence that Johnson had an affair while his wife believed they were still a viable couple.

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## Nathan Hale

> I don't care *when* it happened. I'm not talking about strategy; I'm talking about character. How am I supposed to trust a guy to hold a high-ranking office when he couldn't even be faithful to the wife he professed to love?


Because a great many people of otherwise high moral standing have a history of infidelity?

Besides the fact that we're not even sure yet if he had an affair.  Did the relationship occur while his wife still believed they were a viable couple?

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## Njon

> Because a great many people of otherwise high moral standing have a history of infidelity?


If someone has a "*history of infidelity*," that doesn't square with "high moral standing."




> Besides the fact that we're not even sure yet if he had an affair.  Did the relationship occur while his wife still believed they were a viable couple?


Even if he didn't actually have intercourse with this other woman while married, he still started dating another woman and left his wife; that's bad enough. That's not taking one's marriage vow seriously.

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## scandinaviany3

Really only paul can be our banner runner now...for 2012.

Then for 2010 since peter isnt seeming to jump in...we have to push rand and simcox...for senate and kokesh for congress given they all three have messages that resonate.

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## Nathan Hale

> If someone has a "*history of infidelity*," that doesn't square with "high moral standing."


Sexual infidelity (if such was even the case) is not the line in the sand between good and evil.




> Even if he didn't actually have intercourse with this other woman while married, he still started dating another woman and left his wife; that's bad enough. That's not taking one's marriage vow seriously.


So his relationship wasn't physical, he was just getting acquainted with the girl, discovered that he had feelings for her, and left the wife with whom he was growing apart?  Not exactly vanishing to Argentina....

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## klamath

> Sexual infidelity (if such was even the case) is not the line in the sand between good and evil.
> 
> 
> 
> So his relationship wasn't physical, he was just getting acquainted with the girl, discovered that he had feelings for her, and left the wife with whom he was growing apart?  Not exactly vanishing to Argentina....


Johnson and Sanford both shot themselves down as far as higher office is concerned. 
Any effort to try and push either one of them for president is just an effort to get people to pour donnor money down ratholes on wasted campaigns. The good thing is we found out about this stuff early enough that we can concentrate on getting RP to run again or find other viable candidates in time.

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## Nathan Hale

> Johnson and Sanford both shot themselves down as far as higher office is concerned. 
> Any effort to try and push either one of them for president is just an effort to get people to pour donnor money down ratholes on wasted campaigns. The good thing is we found out about this stuff early enough that we can concentrate on getting RP to run again or find other viable candidates in time.


How did Johnson shoot himself???

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## klamath

> How did Johnson shoot himself???


Same way Sanford did.  You think just because it didn't cause a lot of noise at the time of his divorce he is clear and free.  Wait until a national campaign starts up and every bit of this will be paraded out.  Having his exwife tearfully say she is strong and will go on and then die a year later, when paraded in front of the women voters will shut him down hard. A lot of women voters view the candidate choices different. I know a number of women voters that turned away from Fred Thompson when they saw the young age of his wife.  Rudy's messy cheating came down hard on his chances as well.

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## Nathan Hale

> Same way Sanford did.  You think just because it didn't cause a lot of noise at the time of his divorce he is clear and free.


Yes.  Sanford's scandal will resonate much farther into the future than Johnson's supposed "affair" because it was a public mess that made waves.




> Wait until a national campaign starts up and every bit of this will be paraded out.  Having his exwife tearfully say she is strong and will go on and then die a year later, when paraded in front of the women voters will shut him down hard.


I doubt it.  From the looks of it, Johnson and his wife grew apart, initiated a separation, after which Johnson began seeing someone.  Sanford, on the other hand, was involved in a scandalous affair that he attempted to conceal while supposedly on good terms with his wife.  These are two totally different cases, and I highly doubt that anybody could use Johnson's tale to turn women voters against him.




> A lot of women voters view the candidate choices different. I know a number of women voters that turned away from Fred Thompson when they saw the young age of his wife.  Rudy's messy cheating came down hard on his chances as well.


Could you please cite evidence for this?  From the look of it Rudy was killed by his poor campaign strategy (first in the nation Florida and on to super tuesday), and Fred Thompson died on the vine because he waited too long to get in the game.

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## klamath

> Yes.  Sanford's scandal will resonate much farther into the future than Johnson's supposed "affair" because it was a public mess that made waves.
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it.  From the looks of it, Johnson and his wife grew apart, initiated a separation, after which Johnson began seeing someone.  Sanford, on the other hand, was involved in a scandalous affair that he attempted to conceal while supposedly on good terms with his wife.  These are two totally different cases, and I highly doubt that anybody could use Johnson's tale to turn women voters against him.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please cite evidence for this?  From the look of it Rudy was killed by his poor campaign strategy (first in the nation Florida and on to super tuesday), and Fred Thompson died on the vine because he waited too long to get in the game.


In 3 years people will have forgotten about Sanfords scandal as well until the campaign starts.
If Sanford and Johnson are running and Johnson's people bring up the scandal believe me Sandfords people will bring up Johnson's. It won't be the candidates talking about it themselves but people talking to people.

I personally talked to republican women and saw the reaction to Thompsons wife and Rudy's affairs.  I do agree that Rudy ran a terrible campaign stratigy but part of that is he knew he wasn't going to be able to sell himself to the religous right in Iowa.  Older Republican women that turnout in high numbers have a hard view on these things.
I do agree with you that Sanfords infidelity will hurt him more than Johnson's infidelity but Jonhson's other past has a bigger chance of turning off Republican voters than Sanford's.



I can't vote for neither because if they can't be honest with their own wives why would I trust them to be honest with me?
Second, since they have badly damaged their potential this way I don't want to waste my hard earned money donating to their campaigns. 

Obviously you feel different, anyway time will tell.

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## Matt Collins

I'm going to hold him to the same standard I held Clinton to:

If his own family can't trust him, then how can the voters trust him?

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## james1906

We need a liberty candidate in 2012 that plays well to the religious right.  They go out and vote and they are not going to vote for an adulterer.  Just because you personally have no problem with it doesn't mean it's not an issue.

Look at Huckabee.  He went from being an also ran to a front runner because he knew how to play to the religious right.  RP made a mistake of not playing up his career as a doctor and his 50+ year marriage.  He would have gotten some of Huckabee's votes if he did.

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## Nathan Hale

> In 3 years people will have forgotten about Sanfords scandal as well until the campaign starts.
> If Sanford and Johnson are running and Johnson's people bring up the scandal believe me Sandfords people will bring up Johnson's. It won't be the candidates talking about it themselves but people talking to people.


Johnson and Sanford don't come from analogous situations.  Sanford was involved in a scandal and illicit affair - Johnson just got a divorce and shacked up with a new girl.




> I personally talked to republican women and saw the reaction to Thompsons wife and Rudy's affairs.  I do agree that Rudy ran a terrible campaign stratigy but part of that is he knew he wasn't going to be able to sell himself to the religous right in Iowa.  Older Republican women that turnout in high numbers have a hard view on these things.


I've talked to Republican women as well on the issue - campaign strategy is my career and my candidates are mostly Republican - and while I would agree that Rudy's situation was detrimental, I didn't hear much of anything about Thompson's wife - but then again Thompson was a non-starter anyway so perhaps it wasn't necessary.




> I do agree with you that Sanfords infidelity will hurt him more than Johnson's infidelity but Jonhson's other past has a bigger chance of turning off Republican voters than Sanford's.


Johnson was a remarkably successful and popular governor, even among his state's GOP.  If you're talking about the drug issue, that's something we can spin - with groups like Law Enforcement Against Prohibition and their ilk gaining steam, we can switch the paradigm easily away from the "responsible conservatives" vs "mindless hippies"  false dichotomy.

That said, I think we have yet to establish Johnson's infidelity.  The articles I've read point only to Johnson divorcing his wife and then taking up a new girlfriend.  Please, could you post a link that corrects me on this?  I think I'm only getting half the story.




> I can't vote for neither because if they can't be honest with their own wives why would I trust them to be honest with me?
> Second, since they have badly damaged their potential this way I don't want to waste my hard earned money donating to their campaigns. 
> 
> Obviously you feel different, anyway time will tell.


We'll just have to clear up exactly what Johnson's situation was.

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## specsaregood

> Look at Huckabee.  He went from being an also ran to a front runner because he knew how to play to the religious right.  RP made a mistake of not playing up his career as a doctor and his 50+ year marriage.  *He would have gotten some of Huckabee's votes if he did.*


Uhm, I disagree.  The reason the huckster got those votes is FoxNews decided to push him hard and he decided to co-opt some of the more easy to swallow RP statements, positions and just outright plagiarize some of RP's best lines.  Except foxnews gave those same quotations an audience for hucky.  The skeptic in me would venture that FoxNews and Huckster had already decided on giving him his own tv show when the primary was over and this was all part of building the audience up before then.....

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## klamath

> Johnson and Sanford don't come from analogous situations.  Sanford was involved in a scandal and illicit affair - Johnson just got a divorce and shacked up with a new girl.
> 
> 
> 
> I've talked to Republican women as well on the issue - campaign strategy is my career and my candidates are mostly Republican - and while I would agree that Rudy's situation was detrimental, I didn't hear much of anything about Thompson's wife - but then again Thompson was a non-starter anyway so perhaps it wasn't necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> Johnson was a remarkably successful and popular governor, even among his state's GOP.  If you're talking about the drug issue, that's something we can spin - with groups like Law Enforcement Against Prohibition and their ilk gaining steam, we can switch the paradigm easily away from the "responsible conservatives" vs "mindless hippies"  false dichotomy.
> ...


By Leslie Linthicum
Copyright © 2005 Albuquerque Journal; Journal Staff Writer
Former Gov. Gary Johnson and his wife, Dee, were New Mexico's first
couple for eight years.
Now, they're calling it quits.
Johnson said this week the couple had been separated since May and
were taking legal steps toward divorce.
"I love her. I always will," Johnson said in a phone interview from
Hawaii, where he was giving a speech. "We have just grown apart for
what I consider a long time. I've been going from one adventure to
another and I've been doing it by myself."
*Johnson, 52, said Tuesday that he initiated the separation and that he
has been dating Deborah Werenko of Santa Fe, a family practice
physician and divorced mother of three who is also a competitive
athlete.* Werenko on Wednesday confirmed the two are dating.
*Dee Johnson, 52, said Gary's actions are responsible for the split.
"My heart is broken with what Gary's done to me but I'm a survivor
and I'll make it through this."* Dee Johnson is living at the couple's Albuquerque house; Gary
Johnson is living at their Taos Ski Valley house.
The Johnsons, who met while skiing at Red River when they were
teenagers, have been married for 28 years and have two grown children.
They built a construction firm together, Big J, and were self-made
millionaires by the time Johnson decided to run for governor in 1994.
Johnson, a maverick Republican, took office in 1995 and served for
eight years. His tenure was marked by furious fights with state
lawmakers. He attracted the nickname "Governor No" for his record
number of vetoes and "Puff Daddy" for his quest to decriminalize
marijuana use.
Since leaving office in 2002, Johnson has pursued athletics, training
for triathlons, climbing Mount Everest and skiing nearly every day in
the winter from his home in Taos Ski Valley.
Dee Johnson has been involved in charity events and has pursued art,
learning welding and sculpting from renowned artist OK Harris.
Johnson and Werenko attended the gala grand opening of the
Anderson-Abruzzo International Balloon Museum together in
Albuquerque on Saturday the former governor's hair done up in a
French braid and were in Johnson's pickup truck the following
afternoon when it was involved in an accident on Interstate 25 north of
Albuquerque.
They competed together in the "Quest for Fire" adventure race in
Angel Fire in May and both represented New Mexico in the World
Ironman Triathlon in Hawaii in 2002.

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## Nathan Hale

But that doesn't actually say that they were having an affair.  It could well say that he initiated the separation and has since been dating.

It's not clearly written.  And  his wife's quote could come from his act of initiating the separation, not the discovery of him dating a woman.  More clarification is needed.  That's the same article I've seen on the issue.  Need more info.

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## james1906

> Uhm, I disagree.  The reason the huckster got those votes is FoxNews decided to push him hard and he decided to co-opt some of the more easy to swallow RP statements, positions and just outright plagiarize some of RP's best lines.  Except foxnews gave those same quotations an audience for hucky.  The skeptic in me would venture that FoxNews and Huckster had already decided on giving him his own tv show when the primary was over and this was all part of building the audience up before then.....


The whole MSM propped up Ghoul, then CFRed, then McCorpse.  Never the Huckster.

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## speciallyblend

> Uhm, I disagree.  The reason the huckster got those votes is FoxNews decided to push him hard and he decided to co-opt some of the more easy to swallow RP statements, positions and just outright plagiarize some of RP's best lines.  Except foxnews gave those same quotations an audience for hucky.  The skeptic in me would venture that FoxNews and Huckster had already decided on giving him his own tv show when the primary was over and this was all part of building the audience up before then.....



spot on

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## tajitj

I think the divorce issue may be something, but until we know more about it peope should NOT be so judgemental.

Watching his Rally for Republic, his credentials as a convervative are great. I am getting worried about not having a real Liberty candidate in the race. 

I would support him 100% if he runs. With Ron Paul backing him, he immediately will be a force in Iowa and New Hampshire. 

Most other candidates mentioned are very unlikely because of the lack of experience, sorry to say it. Unless Peter Schiff wants to spend $50million of his own money I only see Johnson and Paul as the ones who could get the the grassroots fired up again.

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## Paul or not at all

> But that doesn't actually say that they were having an affair.  It could well say that he initiated the separation and has since been dating.
> 
> It's not clearly written.  And  his wife's quote could come from his act of initiating the separation, not the discovery of him dating a woman.  More clarification is needed.  That's the same article I've seen on the issue.  Need more info.



Or the whole story could be bull. I haven't seen it from any other news source.

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## Nathan Hale

> Or the whole story could be bull. I haven't seen it from any other news source.


That too.

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