# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns >  Libertarian Party Selects Gary Johnson As Presidential Nominee

## jct74

> *Libertarian Party Selects Gary Johnson As Presidential Nominee*
> The partys goal will now be to scale up fast enough to make a difference in the November election.
> 
> Eliot Nelson
> 05/29/2016 01:11 pm ET
> 
> ORLANDO, Fla.  Former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson secured the Libertarian Partys nomination for president Sunday, capping off the partys weekend-long biennial convention.
> 
> The nomination came after an often raucous nominating convention, in which Johnson was unable to obtain the necessary 50-plus percent of convention delegates on the first round of balloting. After the first round, officials from the five major Libertarian campaigns jockeyed for delegates, though Johnsons nomination was never really in doubt, having fallen only six delegates short in the first round, out of a total of 925 votes cast. He ultimately with just under 59 percent of delegates support.
> ...


read more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b03ede44151293

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## randomname

I guess Trump will appreciate him taking votes from Hillary and ex Bernie people

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## afwjam

He does nothing for me and Weld is a scary CFR member and gun grabber.

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## LibertyEagle

> He does nothing for me and Weld is a scary CFR member and gun grabber.


He's CFR?  Oh sheesh.  That ain't good.

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## afwjam

> He's CFR?  Oh sheesh.  That ain't good.


Thought you might not like that.
http://www.cfr.org/canada/building-n...ommunity/p8102

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## LibertyEagle

Well, looky here.  He also participated in the CFR's Building a North American Community task force, along with Heidi Cruz.  How quaint.
http://www.cfr.org/canada/building-n...ommunity/p8102

EDIT:  Hell, he even CHAIRED it.  "Chairs: John P. Manley, Pedro Aspe, and William F. Weld".  Ugh.  Not good; not good at all.

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## LibertyEagle

> Thought you might not like that.
> http://www.cfr.org/canada/building-n...ommunity/p8102


Yeah, kind of gives credence to what I thought the other day after listening to what sounded to me like Johnson's globalist positions.

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## Working Poor

Oh well I guess I will vote for him even though I prefer McAfee

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## LibertyEagle

> Oh well I guess I will vote for him even though I prefer McAfee


Johnson's VP is a high-ranking CFR member!!!

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## phill4paul

I honestly can't think of a worse ticket. I had hoped beyond hope that Peterson and McAfee might have come together on round two.

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## CaseyJones

ah well, not voting then

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## younglibertarian

A Pyrrhic victory, indeed.

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## younglibertarian

Let's just hope the delegates have the sense to block Weld.....

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## Brian4Liberty

I haven't been this excited about a Libertarian nominee since Bob Barr...

/s

Doesn't matter though. It's a protest vote, and a vote to keep a third party alive. Johnson qualifies to fill that role.

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## 69360

Good now they just need Weld and they have a serious formidable ticket.

For every person on a forum who says they won't vote LP because of Johnson or Weld, there are probably 20 never Trump or never Clintons who will.

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## phill4paul

> I haven't been this excited about a Libertarian nominee since Bob Barr...


  Oh, $#@!, that me gave a belly laugh.

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## timosman

> Well, looky here.  He also participated in the CFR's Building a North American Community task force, along with Heidi Cruz.  How quaint


Very quaint indeed.

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## RJ Liberty

> Good now they just need Weld and they have a serious formidable ticket.
> 
> For every person on a forum who says they won't vote LP because of Johnson or Weld, there are probably 20 never Trump or never Clintons who will.


Exactly. This is a serious ticket.

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## phill4paul

> Good now they just need Weld and they have a serious formidable ticket.
> 
> For every person on a forum who says they won't vote LP because of Johnson or Weld, there are probably 20 never Trump or never Clintons who will.


  If you say so, it must be so. My bet would be that those 20 never Trump/never Clintons will spend their time doing something entirely different from voting on election day.

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## jkob

The Libertarians aren't going to win, is Gary Johnson worse than Bob Barr? I don't think so, I voted for Gary in 2012 and I don't feel guilty for it. It's more that his pick for VP is Bill Weld is so awful that is most bothersome. Whatever, it's about maximizing votes and this is the ticket that will do it for the LP. These guys won't be the LP nominees 4 years from now and now that candidate might have a chance at matching funds.

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## William Tell

Darrell Castle 2016

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## andy2044

> Darrell Castle 2016


This. Constitution Party in my state has their first organizational meeting today. Want to see if they can get on the ballot.

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## Working Poor

> Johnson's VP is a high-ranking CFR member!!!


Hilary is a criminal and her husband is a rapist and probably a pedophile and Trump is probably likely as bad. At least Johnson will likely be able to reschedule pot and maybe take some of the sting of the drug war which is an issue that is very close to my heart. I know so many people who have gone to prison for smoking pot and being a drug addict. The drug war has very deeply affected my family being that several of them have been to prison for it. GJ is the only one who seems at least somewhat interested in peace and freedom which I know neither Trump or Hillary are interested in. I don't like some things about him but he is definitely the lessor of 3 evils IMO. Plus I also want to help the party get more juice and maybe next election have someone that we like better run.

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## ProBlue33

This is a problem for the purist, how can you vote for CFR on a ticket, have we devolved to the point of picking the lesser of 3 evils, sure seems like.

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## CaseyJones

> This is a problem for the purist, how can you vote for CFR on a ticket, have we devolved to the point of picking the lesser of 3 evils, sure seems like.


phuc the strategists write in Ron Paul

P.S. I will still not be voting

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## Origanalist

> ah well, not voting then


Ya, same here.

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## RonPaulMall

> This is a problem for the purist, how can you vote for CFR on a ticket, have we devolved to the point of picking the lesser of 3 evils, sure seems like.


The Ron Paul movement killed the LP. Drained all the talent from the party and allowed Republican Lites to take over. That the LP has nominated Bob Barr and now Gary Johnson twice is sickening. If you want to vote 3rd party this time around, please vote for the Constitution Party. The LP needs to be humiliated or they'll never learn.

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## AZJoe

> I haven't been this excited about a Libertarian nominee since Bob Barr....


LOL. That made me laugh.

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## r3volution 3.0

> Good now they just need Weld and they have a serious formidable ticket.
> 
> For every person on a forum who says they won't vote LP because of  Johnson or Weld, there are probably 20 never Trump or never Clintons who  will.


Yup




> Johnson's VP is a high-ranking CFR member!!!





> This is a problem for the purist, how can you  vote for CFR on a ticket, have we devolved to the point of picking the  lesser of 3 evils, sure seems like.





> The Ron Paul movement killed the LP. Drained  all the talent from the party and allowed Republican Lites to take over.  That the LP has nominated Bob Barr and now Gary Johnson twice is  sickening. If you want to vote 3rd party this time around, please vote  for the Constitution Party. The LP needs to be humiliated or they'll  never learn.


All three of you are Trump supporters, which means you have abandoned any and all libertarian principles you may have held. 

Consequently, you have zero credibility to criticize Libertarian Party candidates for not being pure enough.

I wonder why you even care, since the LP is now your competition. 

...or maybe that _is_ why you care?

...maybe you wanted the LP to nominate the weakest, most fringe candidate possible in order to make things easier for Il Toupee?

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## Krugminator2

> Yup
> 
> ..maybe you wanted the LP to nominate the weakest, most fringe candidate possible in order to make things easier for Il Toupee?


The party needs to nominate people who can fundraise, get on TV, and present themselves well.  That rules out most of the nutters who are active in the party.

Johnson/Weld  is a serious ticket.

The problem is Weld is similar to Mitt Romney on the issues.  He is basically a liberal Northeast Republican. I spent the weekend vegged out watching the convention and Gary Johnson is an ignorant boobus.  The ticket is an economic illiterate who supports equal pay laws and an Iraq War supporter.

I don't know that the Libertarian Party getting traction over Republicans is a good thing  if it causes someone like Ron Johnson to lose. I would take Ron Johnson over the last couple of LP nominees.

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## ThePaleoLibertarian

It really seems like libertarians (big L and small) love being ineffectual.

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## Ronaldof

I will not vote for Johnson/Weld. Now there are the three evils. And I never will hold my nose and vote for any of them. The best candidate out there now is the obscure Darrell Castle and Scott Bradley of the Constitution Party. If you vote for Bill Weld you are voting for the CFR. They are all snakes and squirm their way into everything. I feel sad for the Libertarian Party.

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## jth_ttu

> I will not vote for Johnson/Weld. Now there are the three evils. And I never will hold my nose and vote for any of them. The best candidate out there now is the obscure Darrell Castle and Scott Bradley of the Constitution Party. If you vote for Bill Weld you are voting for the CFR. They are all snakes and squirm their way into everything. I feel sad for the Libertarian Party.


Just curious. It says you've been a member since 2007  but this is your first post?

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## VIDEODROME

I guess the VP is elected by the Libertarian Party?  Not chosen by Johnson?  That seems weird.

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## LatinsforPaul

Do Gary Johnson's poll numbers go up or down in a 4 way race after hearing this...

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## helmuth_hubener

Johnson: "I'm the small government guy."

*NOT!!!!*

It is important to recognize this statement is not true.  It is, instead, false.

It is very false.

Big Government Gary is blatantly lying.  He is a weasel.

*New Mexico's state government's spending went way up while Johnson was governor, from 4.4 billion annually to 7.7 billion annually. (see here)
New Mexico's state government's taxes went way up while Johnson was governor.  Total direct revenue increased from 5.3 billion to 6.6 billion (see here) .  Or, according to a different measurement from a different site, tax revenue increased from 2.7 billion to 3.5 billion. (see here)
New Mexico's state government's debt went way up while Johnson was governor.  In fact, it tripled: from 1.82 billion to 4.6 billion.  (see here)
*

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## nasaal

> Gary Johnson on Fox News this morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFWzTqFxSQQ


Beats their history of backhanded critiques of Johnson.  The narrative has already started that he's only going to siphon off votes from Trump, instead of his social positions being more popular than Hillary for the most part.

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## timosman

> GJ has no fire or charisma at all.
> 
> Voted for him last time but come on with this crap.


Even Bernie would be wiping the floor with this guy.
Maybe if Jeb! was still in the race he would have a chance to win a debate.

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## timosman



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## helmuth_hubener

> Even Bernie would be wiping the floor with this guy.
> Maybe if Jeb! was still in the race he would have a chance to win a debate.


He looks disheveled, unkempt, in short: embarrassing.  Can't even bother to clean up for a national TV interview?  The day after you're nominated?  Wow.  Also, totally dazed and out of it.  Too much use of his own product during his between-campaigns day job of drug dealer.  Oh, I mean marijuana salesperson.

No, I mean drug dealer.

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## nasaal

> He looks disheveled, unkempt, in short: embarrassing.  Can't even bother to clean up for a national TV interview?  The day after you're nominated?  Wow.  Also, totally dazed and out of it.  Too much use of his own product during his between-campaigns day job of drug dealer.  Oh, I mean marijuana salesperson.
> 
> No, I mean drug dealer.


Drug dealer?  Like a liquor store owner, or a store that sells cigarettes?

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## brandon

he does look a bit unkempt but I can't point out exactly why. Maybe he just has too many wrinkles under his eyes that it makes him look like he just woke up?

I guess buttoning his collar and putting a tie on would help too. Why didn't he do that?

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## LibertyEagle

> Bill Kristol joining the LP could bring some much needed establishment and MIC money. He could also bring in credible candidates. Imagine a Sasse/Cotton ticket. Or Rubio/Sasse. Or Rubio/Ayotte. Or Cotton/Cheney (Liz). The possibilities are endless. The LP would have more success than ever. A truly viable third Party.


Brian, please tell me you are being facetious.

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## timosman

> he does look a bit unkempt but I can't point out exactly why. Maybe he just has too many wrinkles under his eyes that it makes him look like he just woke up?
> 
> I guess buttoning his collar and putting a tie on would help too. Why didn't he do that?


No makeup. No entourage. R/D campaigns know how to make their candidate look good on TV. Plastic surgery would help too.

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## Lovecraftian4Paul

Yes, Johnson has a real issue being taken seriously with his style. I remember back in 2012, I saw him speak at a local college. Jesse Ventura showed up as a guest speaker. They were both dressed in t-shirts and jeans. That's okay for Ventura, since he has no intention of ever running for elected office again, but Johnson?

Come on. I kept thinking it felt like he was there to sell me an Apple product, not run for President of the United States. I still voted for him because Romney (lol). This time I'm going for Trump and everything about the LP is pretty weird and shrug-worthy to me.

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## bunklocoempire

Make America Bake The Cake Again

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## Feeding the Abscess

Most of his disheveled appearance in that Fox interview is the result of his hair. It's either too long or it's unstyled. Or both.

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## helmuth_hubener

> No makeup. No entourage.


...No shower.  No iron.  No comb.

After all, of those are tools of White Patriarchal Oppression.

To be Libertarian you must eschew such barbaric relics.  Just show your Wild Child, wave that Freak Flag and then we can make the world Groovy again, man.  That's what America wants.

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## nasaal

Got so excited, and decided I would come here to sort of celebrate with everyone.  Seems that that was a waste of time as most are upset about it.  I get it.  We have differing opinions which is a good thing.  If we were all the same I think it would be....weird and creepy and make the entire liberty spectrum seem very uninviting.  Still....a little disappointed that even less people will be joining me this time around from here.

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## younglibertarian

> Got so excited, and decided I would come here to sort of celebrate with everyone.  Seems that that was a waste of time as most are upset about it.  I get it.  We have differing opinions which is a good thing.  If we were all the same I think it would be....weird and creepy and make the entire liberty spectrum seem very uninviting.  Still....a little disappointed that even less people will be joining me this time around from here.


I'm still on the fence.

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## Lord Xar

In other words, the libertarian party is already infiltrated and taken over?

arghh..... why the $#@! did they vote for Johnson when he chose such a jackass as his VP?

I don't get it...

If anything, he should have chosen Peterson - to unite the libertarian front. Instead, he chooses a friggin knucklehead..... <shakes head>

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## Brian4Liberty

> Brian, please tell me you are being facetious.


Hmmm. In what sense? Don't you think it would work?

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## afwjam

> Got so excited, and decided I would come here to sort of celebrate with everyone.  Seems that that was a waste of time as most are upset about it.  I get it.  We have differing opinions which is a good thing.  If we were all the same I think it would be....weird and creepy and make the entire liberty spectrum seem very uninviting.  Still....a little disappointed that even less people will be joining me this time around from here.


We will continue to support Liberty uncompromising and where it is really needed locally and up. Republican, Libertarian, Democratic Party does not matter, those are their rules. McAfee despite not being versed in libertarian principle, seems to be the candidate that got this. I loved watching the convention, the future is promising, the compromise will fail as it always has.

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## nasaal

> I'm still on the fence.


I'll be accused of voting for the lesser of an evil.  That's fine.  I won't do it for the major parties, but maybe I bend a little when the goal is getting the idea of 0% corporate tax spoken on the general debate stage.  Maybe I bend a little when it comes to getting ANY different points of view onto the national scene.  Anything that let's the American people see what else is out there, and then let them decide if it's for them.  I know that there is a concern that Johnson/Weld are not Libertarian, and therefor would cause the LP to be coopted by neo-cons and the like.  

It's fine to be afraid of that....but the LP and other fringe parties are ineffectual as they currently exist.  Maybe Johnson will accomplish nothing and I'm in effect accomplishing nothing more than I did by voting for Ron Paul.  Maybe.  If we can get the LP to just 5% nationally in the actual election.  If we can get the LP to 15% in the polls to get someone from an actual PARTY on the stage that isn't the Republican or Democratic party.  It would change everything.  Perot got on the stage, but he bought his way into that as an independent entity and it has come with a stigma that has existed ever sense.  That the only way for another voice to be heard is for it to come with an ambitious self involved billionaire.  If we could get an actual THIRD party into the general debate though.  

The LP doesn't really have a significant history with the American people.  It would be seen as this new upstart thing.  It would open the door to the Green Party, and the Constitution party and whatever other party you may find validated.  

I spose what I'm really getting at is that this is (in my opinion) the best opportunity we have in 2016 to alter the 2 party dynamic.  Maybe in 2020 we have a much better opportunity from elsewhere.  Maybe even in the 2 major parties with get people with actual different points of view that allow the AMerican people to have to decide what is best for them.   That isn't the case in 2016 though.  Not in my eyes.  Therefor I'm going to vote for Johnson, and do it happily. 

To be fair though, I don't dislike him as many here do.

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## timosman

> In other words, the libertarian party is already infiltrated and taken over?


Didn't take long, did it? It does not matter where you turn there are some $#@!s already waiting to interfere and support status quo. No wonder there were no grassroots revolutions in the history of mankind.

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## nasaal

> We will continue to support Liberty uncompromising and where it is really needed locally and up. Republican, Libertarian, Democratic Party does not matter, those are their rules. McAfee despite not being versed in libertarian principle, seems to be the candidate that got this. I loved watching the convention, the future is promising, the compromise will fail as it always has.


They aren't "their" rules.  They are THE rules.  Until something can be done to actually alter the function of that system then we will continue to get the same as we have for longer than either of us have been alive.  I applaud you and any others for being uncompromising in your approach.  Go for it.  I do not see it as being effective at any point in the future.  Not even the off chance.  I compromised by voting for Ron Paul as I do disagree with him on some things.  I saw him as being by far the best chance we had in the United States in 2008, and 2012 to alter the common perception of the system though.  Something to get meaningful debate out there from an angle that wasn't even being thought of by the majority. 

Do what you feel is best for you and yours.  I'll do the same for me.  Hopefully one of us gets the change that we are looking for!

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## nasaal

> In other words, the libertarian party is already infiltrated and taken over?
> 
> arghh..... why the $#@! did they vote for Johnson when he chose such a jackass as his VP?
> 
> I don't get it...
> 
> If anything, he should have chosen Peterson - to unite the libertarian front. Instead, he chooses a friggin knucklehead..... <shakes head>


Exposure,  Like it or not he has one short term goal.  Be in the media enough to make it to 15%.  That's it.  He doesn't accomplish that as easily with Peterson as he does with Weld.  We may not like them very much.  The people watching it on TV however won't be sitting there saying "Well I don't think that they are very Libertarian.  Their records indicate that they are shills for big government."  They'll see.  "Two former governors running for the whitehouse against a witch of a woman and a psychopath with no history in office?"  Then they do some surface research on who they are, and they find some speeches about doing what you want to do as long as you don't infringe upon someone else's right to do the same.  They eventually even stumble upon places like this through the magic of google(like I did once upon a time).  

The wool isn't pulled from the eyes of America on Liberty and coercion through the threat of force and whatnot.  Instead the idea that they can look a bit further than the red and blue teams creeps into the minds of Americans. 

Long shot, but a shot that the LP does not realistically have with Peterson as the VP.  Not even Mcaffee as the VP given the constant connotations that he would carry with him.  Well....unless someone like a Koch happens to bankroll the campaign.  Then it wouldn't much matter WHO they trotted out there.

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## afwjam

> They aren't "their" rules.  They are THE rules.  Until something can be done to actually alter the function of that system then we will continue to get the same as we have for longer than either of us have been alive.  I applaud you and any others for being uncompromising in your approach.  Go for it.  I do not see it as being effective at any point in the future.  Not even the off chance.  I compromised by voting for Ron Paul as I do disagree with him on some things.  I saw him as being by far the best chance we had in the United States in 2008, and 2012 to alter the common perception of the system though.  Something to get meaningful debate out there from an angle that wasn't even being thought of by the majority. 
> 
> Do what you feel is best for you and yours.  I'll do the same for me.  Hopefully one of us gets the change that we are looking for!



Ron Paul did not want to "win" he did not want to be president, he was not trying to get things "done", he accomplished real change, you don't have to agree with him, that's the point.

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## adam220891

> Drug dealer?  Like a liquor store owner, or a store that sells cigarettes?


He owns or is invested in some sort of pot business, seriously.

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## nasaal

> He owns or is invested in some sort of pot business, seriously.


No.  I am aware.  Makes him no more a drug deal than the owner of liquor store, coffee company, or Advil.

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## nasaal

> Ron Paul did not want to "win" he did not want to be president, he was not trying to get things "done", he accomplished real change, you don't have to agree with him, that's the point.


What change?  Inflation is as bad as ever, government intervention is worse than ever, and the candidates did little more than pay lip service to anything he spoke about.  Speaking of candidates, we have 2 psychopaths with their party's nominations.  He did not bring about actual change.  He certainly did everything he could though, and for that he had and will always have some level of my support.

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## afwjam

> What change?  Inflation is as bad as ever, government intervention is worse than ever, and the candidates did little more than pay lip service to anything he spoke about.  Speaking of candidates, we have 2 psychopaths with their party's nominations.  He did not bring about actual change.  He certainly did everything he could though, and for that he had and will always have some level of my support.


have you seen the way they talk? What trump is saying? Cruz? Did you watch the libertarian convention? Who do you think brought us to this point and changed the conversation? He did it without winning, because he always wins.

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## nasaal

> have you seen the way they talk? What trump is saying? Cruz? Did you watch the libertarian convention? Who do you think brought us to this point and changed the conversation? He did it without winning, because he always wins.


The way they talk?  What difference in the world is that?  Obama talked about being supportive of whistle blowers, and he has been worse than even Bush was on the subject.  Words are wind.  The reality of the nation has not changed for the better.  His victory was one of an individual nature.  He woke many of us up to recognizing that reality.  We then grew the Liberty community and worked to poke holes in the insanity that is spouted on a regular basis through the media and by the political elite.  

That's great.  He served the role of teacher.  He armed us with the knowledge and nuanced perspective to decide on our own(per individual) vision of what the cause of Liberty should really be.  That's fantastic.  He did not truly change anything in this nation however.  Not yet.  The seeds he planted however may grow into an unstoppable Liberty forest that in the end may truly win.

Upon reading over this post I just realized that I used the phrase Liberty Forest without remembering that it was the name of these forums.

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## afwjam

> The way they talk?  What difference in the world is that?  Obama talked about being supportive of whistle blowers, and he has been worse than even Bush was on the subject.  Words are wind.  The reality of the nation has not changed for the better.  His victory was one of an individual nature.  He woke many of us up to recognizing that reality.  We then grew the Liberty community and worked to poke holes in the insanity that is spouted on a regular basis through the media and by the political elite.  
> 
> That's great.  He served the role of teacher.  He armed us with the knowledge and nuanced perspective to decide on our own(per individual) vision of what the cause of Liberty should really be.  That's fantastic.  He did not truly change anything in this nation however.  Not yet.  The seeds he planted however may grow into an unstoppable Liberty forest that in the end may truly win.
> 
> Upon reading over this post I just realized that I used the phrase Liberty Forest without remembering that it was the name of these forums.


Yes,I think you are agreeing with me. Government will change when we change, not the other way around.

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## nasaal

> Yes,I think you are agreeing with me. Government will change when we change, not the other way around.


Yea, to a point.  I think people remain roughly tthe same.   We respond to perceived threats and stimuli much the we we always have.  Oour perception however continues to change onn  a societal level.  The actions of our  government will not change no matter how we rail against them. Even refusing to vote for them will accomplish nothing except to shrink the numbers at the exit polls.  They respond to perceived threats as we have evolved to do.  They do not see protests and rallies as big enough threats to change actual behavior.  They adjust some verbage and continue on with their day.  

Unless we are actually willing to vote elsewhere, they do not care.  That is the only thing that they would perceive as a threat.  

Reality being shared turns to a change in perception which turns to action.  Enlightening people to the system accomplishes nothing without our own threat to change it.

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## NewRightLibertarian

Any libertarian who supports this ticket has sold their soul to the devil.

Hope the 30 pieces of silver were worth it, scumbag LPers. I hope the party is sunk for good after this disgrace, and I will be personally working toward those ends.

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## nasaal

> Any libertarian who supports this ticket has sold their soul to the devil.
> 
> Hope the 30 pieces of silver were worth it, scumbag LPers. I hope the party is sunk for good after this disgrace, and I will be personally working toward those ends.


You go for it.  Do what you feel is best for your life.

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## bunklocoempire

silver lining-
The liberty lip service gets better and better!  The "truth ante" is upped!  (thanks Ron!)

sh!t lining-
Mankind seems to be forever losing his grip on what words actually mean.  Lip service doesn't do anything to help that. 

A wash?  lol  

Resist as best you can, but resist!   

*  FURTHER*

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## Brian4Liberty

> Bill Kristol joining the LP could bring some much needed establishment and MIC money. He could also bring in credible candidates. Imagine a Sasse/Cotton ticket. Or Rubio/Sasse. Or Rubio/Ayotte. Or Cotton/Cheney (Liz). The possibilities are endless. The LP would have more success than ever. A truly viable third Party.





> Brian, please tell me you are being facetious.


Kennedy  ("libertarian" on Fox) suggested today that Kristol was talking about Johnson/Weld in his mysterious Tweet...

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## undergroundrr

> scumbag LPers. I hope the party is sunk for good after this disgrace, and I will be personally working toward those ends.


Yeah, you already were. Carry on with your fantasy about trumpMessiah.

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## dannno

> Drug dealer?  Like a liquor store owner, or a store that sells cigarettes?


More like an herbal doctor.

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## dannno

> He owns or is invested in some sort of pot business, seriously.


That seems like a really smart idea.

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## SpiritOf1776_J4

> Kennedy  ("libertarian" on Fox) suggested today that Kristol was talking about Johnson/Weld in his mysterious Tweet...


Well, if they bring out a bunch of men in drag and say we're all libertarians now, it wouldn't get much better.

This is why Ron Paul encouraged working in the the GOP where we'd have more influence - which we have.  It would be nice to have an organization still running on principles when that doesn't work - but this isn't the organization now.

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## NewRightLibertarian

> Yeah, you already were. Carry on with your fantasy about trumpMessiah.


I guess you have to sort to lies and BS rather than defend the merits of your ticket. The LP has sold its soul for the unwanted GOP leftovers. A new low for the Party. The streaker was the least disgraceful thing about this weekend's convention.

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## unknown

> Any libertarian who supports this ticket has sold their soul to the devil.
> 
> Hope the 30 pieces of silver were worth it, scumbag LPers. I hope the party is sunk for good after this disgrace, and I will be personally working toward those ends.


Its more a reflection of the lemons that we have to "choose" from.

Johnson > Trump or Hillary, fat cuck notwithstanding.

Not like anyone is suggesting LP over Rand...

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## NewRightLibertarian

> Its more a reflection of the lemons that we have to "choose" from.
> 
> Johnson > Trump or Hillary, fat cuck notwithstanding.
> 
> Not like anyone is suggesting LP over Rand...


I understand the logic, but Gary Johnson is going to get trounced out there if he somehow gets in the debates. We are going to look terrible if this sell-out ticket has even minor success. Welk is absolutely abysmal too, and he will be representing libertarianism for at least 5 months now. No self-respecting libertarian should support Johnson/Weld.

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## H. E. Panqui

_No self-respecting libertarian should support Johnson/Weld.


_​...true, dat...but anyone supporting trump OR ANY STINKING REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT has no room to talk...none...

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## T.hill

There are some good things to say about Gary, but I think he's an intellectual lightweight. Not only does he seem to have a shaky grasp of libertarian ethics and economics -- he doesn't even seem to have much intellectual curiosity at all. 

Tom Woods did an analysis of the Johnson/Weld ticket on his show today, and while Tom sometimes disappointed me with his analysis of Rand he was spot on in his analysis of Gary Johnson. I hoped that Gary would have took some time between 2012 and now to read up on Austrian economics and the libertarian tradition to build a more coherent and consistent set of principles. However, as Tom noted today it seems like he didn't do much reading at all between then and now.

Gary is without a doubt better than Hillary, Bernie, or Trump -- but his VP choice is not so good and it could be argued that he's simply a socially liberal Republican. Vote for him if you wish, but I'm hoping a senior adviser joins the Johnson campaign with more libertarian bonafides to help him smooth out some inconsistencies he holds. 

What's funny about all of this, and I think most would agree, is Rand pretty obviously more libertarian than Gary, even while he was running for president (for the REPUBLICAN nomination mind you). Senator Rand Paul is no question more libertarian than Gary.

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## younglibertarian

> There are some good things to say about Gary, but I think he's an intellectual lightweight. Not only does he seem to have a shaky grasp of libertarian ethics and economics -- he doesn't even seem to have much intellectual curiosity at all. 
> 
> Tom Woods did an analysis of the Johnson/Weld ticket on his show today, and while Tom sometimes disappointed me with his analysis of Rand he was spot on in his analysis of Gary Johnson. I hoped that Gary would have took some time between 2012 and now to read up on Austrian economics and the libertarian tradition to build a more coherent and consistent set of principles. However, as Tom noted today it seems like he didn't do much reading at all between then and now.
> 
> Gary is without a doubt better than Hillary, Bernie, or Trump -- but his VP choice is not so good and it could be argued that he's simply a socially liberal Republican. Vote for him if you wish, but I'm hoping a senior adviser joins the Johnson campaign with more libertarian bonafides to help him smooth out some inconsistencies he holds. 
> 
> What's funny about all of this, and I think most would agree, is Rand pretty obviously more libertarian than Gary, even while he was running for president (for the REPUBLICAN nomination mind you). Senator Rand Paul is no question more libertarian than Gary.


Agreed. + rep

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## Jingles

I honestly won't be voting for Gary Johnson this year. I did in 2012, but I don't think I can this year. Back then I thought, "well he isn't as good as Ron Paul but he is at least a utilitarian libertarian of some kind... (i.e. the socially liberal, fiscally conservative kind), but he hasn't gotten better with time at all. Like I thought him getting into the LP would have made him really go out and learn and become more libertarian. It seems like the opposite has occurred. And this VP pick... Well that says it all.

Gary Johnson truly doesn't understand libertarianism or he just doesn't want to embrace it. I can't tell which. If you are in the LP I just assume everyone is throwing Rothbard and Mises books at you all the time until you read them (but maybe I don't understand the LP too well because i have never actually met anyone involved in it or been to anything related to it myself).

I honestly feel like Trump is the lesser of evils at this point. And felt it more or less when everyone came out to hate him (the media, the republican establishment, the democratic establishment, SJWs, liberals in general, etc...). Pretty much 95% of the people I hate in the political or media arena hate Trump. So he is doing something right. He has many flaws. Protectionism for example (but Pat is into that as well, but he is a great ally of ours).

I feel like Trump is a kind of populist dumbed-down version of Pat Buchanan. Which, I would rather deal with than a fake libertarian like Johnson or that horrid lady that I could call all kinds of foul names.

And everything happening in Europe... We really need to stop our horrible immigration policies. In a perfect world I want open borders, but we can either have a welfare state or open borders. Right now we have both. Illegal immigrants are getting more money and healthcare from the state than veterans... Ideally I want no welfare to anyone.

I used to be a lot more (I don't know if I can think of a correct term)... I guess, "loose" on illegal immigration... but the more and more I read the less I think they are just "people trying to make a better life". Same with the refugees. And I have always been very critical of Alex Jones, but everytime I listen to him anymore... I just agree with everything he says other than being like "well I don't know about that". Well, other than some nonsense pop stuff and whatnot. And i'm not into the whole organic thing.

I don't know what else to say. I'm, just rambling at this point and may have had one too many a beer. But idk, man... I think this election is much more about defending western culture than it is really defending our ideas.

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## Jingles

To ramble onward... Our country has literally gone nuts. Like really. Everyone is either dumb, retarded, or crazy at this point. Trump is just a reflection of the times good or bad. I know we thought it would be our year... 2016... WE built so much and worked so hard to work our way into maybe having Rand as president. But, our country is literally crazy. People only care about their tv shows, their food, or whatever. My job doesn't give me any hope for this country either (carwash, the people that come their are lazy, insanely obese, dumb, and or all of the above... And I've dealt with this idiotic population for years).

I don't know. I have no faith in the people of this country. I did I little bit between 2008-2012, but really I no longer think the american people are intelligent enough to actually embrace freedom. So I guess for me voting for Trump is just a "burn it all down" vote. Which is fine enough with me. I'll survive whatever as long as a nuke isn't dropped on my house. And I honestly feel like a Hillary presidency would cause either a civil war or start another world war.

Still rambling, I don't care anymore. I'll live free in my own life. Apparently Americans don't care if they are free or not.

"The only way to survive a mad world is to embrace the madness." -Victor Strand

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## TheTexan

> Bill Kristol joining the LP could bring some much needed establishment and MIC money. He could also bring in credible candidates. Imagine a Sasse/Cotton ticket. Or Rubio/Sasse. Or Rubio/Ayotte. Or Cotton/Cheney (Liz). The possibilities are endless. The LP would have more success than ever. A truly viable third Party.


Ya, Gary is way too extreme libertarian for most people.  A more conservative libertarian, that has a good fiscal record, like Rubio or Ryan, could do quite well in the LP.

Maybe then we truly could have a viable third party.

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## Jingles

> Ya, Gary is way too extreme libertarian for most people.  A more conservative libertarian, that has a good fiscal record, like Rubio or Ryan, could do quite well in the LP.
> 
> Maybe then we truly could have a viable third party.


I love your sarcasm... That I hope is...

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## Lovecraftian4Paul

Yes, Jingles, your take is a lot like mine on this election. I'm all for Trump this time, but I really don't fault anyone for voting Johnson, Darrell Castle, or writing in Ron/Rand. After being deep in several election cycles, the third party candidate debate just feels like a bad rerun of 2008 and 2012 to me. I don't see the point of squabbling so much over what Johnson will do (now that he's officially the LP candidate) or what the Constitution Party believes about X. None of these parties combined will come close to achieving a large share of the vote, let alone actually electing a President.

Did it matter whether anyone voted for Barr or Baldwin in 2008? I think most would agree the answer is no. Neither even got 1% of the popular vote. So far, most signs point to the current crop of third party candidates not doing much better. Yeah, I'm ignoring third party polling with Johnson near 10% unless it holds into August. They always do triple or quadruple what they actually receive this far out. Nader polled 5-10% in 2008, too, and ended up under 1%.

All the arguments about what they will or won't do or what they believe seems really theoretical. If someone is so sour about the Presidential race that they can't get behind anyone with any enthusiasm, they'd might as well forget about the top of the ticket and focus on local races.

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