# Lifestyles & Discussion > Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies >  Bitcoin trading halted until 10 PM Eastern tonight

## Gaddafi Duck

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...fter-meltdown/

only one exchange, but it happens to be the largest and most popular. ironic that bitcoin was touted as an opt-out option to avoid a Cyprus-esque freeze out...now Bitcoin users are frozen out of the biggest market for transactions. so much for that idea..

i love the reasoning too. Bitcoin trading halted due to panic selling...as opposed to the panic buying over the past 4 months to which they did nothing about??? hahahah...like the people fearing irrational selling when a market sells off, but cheering irrational buying all the way up the mania ladder.

alternative bitcoin exchanges are selling at a deep discount to $90/coin vs. the $123 on the frozen Mt.Gox. 

so, now that we got the exchange dilemma outta the way (now you can sell your coins for a 25% discount in an identical exchange), does anyone know if or how long your trade takes to settle?? will the funds even be there if you access and trade thru these exchanges???

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## talkingpointes

> http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...fter-meltdown/
> 
> only one exchange, but it happens to be the largest and most popular. ironic that bitcoin was touted as an opt-out option to avoid a Cyprus-esque freeze out...now Bitcoin users are frozen out of the biggest market for transactions. so much for that idea..
> 
> i love the reasoning too. Bitcoin trading halted due to panic selling...as opposed to the panic buying over the past 4 months to which they did nothing about??? hahahah...like the people fearing irrational selling when a market sells off, but cheering irrational buying all the way up the mania ladder.
> 
> alternative bitcoin exchanges are selling at a deep discount to $90/coin vs. the $123 on the frozen Mt.Gox. 
> 
> so, now that we got the exchange dilemma outta the way (now you can sell your coins for a 25% discount in an identical exchange), does anyone know if or how long your trade takes to settle?? will the funds even be there if you access and trade thru these exchanges???


The market is having issues with TOO MUCH traffic, and people are saying it's the end. The fact a digital currency can slay the dollar is all everyone needed to see. The dollar is done. Bitcoin might not be the end all - be we now know this is the way to go.

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## RickyJ

Panic selling is bad, panic buying is good. LOL! Fools and their money are soon departed.

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## brandon

> http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...fter-meltdown/
> 
> only one exchange, but it happens to be the largest and most popular. ironic that bitcoin was touted as an opt-out option to avoid a Cyprus-esque freeze out...now Bitcoin users are frozen out of the biggest market for transactions. so much for that idea..



It's only one exchange and bitcoin is still in it's infancy. It will take time to get several professional grade exchanges up.  

If you are worried about bitcoin being fozen, fear not.  I will buy any bitcoins anyone here wants to sell for $20/coin. PM me, I'll transfer you the money isntantly.

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## dannno

Somebody is spinning.. either the OP or Mt.Gox.. 

But I think I'll hold onto my bitcoin.





> TOKYO - JAPAN - April 11, 2013 
> 
> 		Hi everyone, just a quick update on the situation and what happened last night.
> 
> First of all we would like to reassure you but no we were not last night victim of a DDoS but instead victim of our own success!
> 
> Indeed the rather astonishing amount of new account opened in the last few days added to the existing one plus the number of trade made a huge impact on the overall system that started to lag. As expected in such situation people started to panic, started to sell Bitcoin in mass (Panic Sale) resulting in an increase of trade that ultimately froze the trade engine!
> 
> To give you an idea of how impressive things were here are some numbers that we would love to share with you guys:
> ...


https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130411.html

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## dannno

> It's only one exchange and bitcoin is still in it's infancy. It will take time to get several professional grade exchanges up.  
> 
> If you are worried about bitcoin being fozen, fear not.  I will buy any bitcoins anyone here wants to sell for $20/coin. PM me, I'll transfer you the money isntantly.


I'll pay $40/coin.

Anybody else wanna turn this thread into a trading auction?

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## Gaddafi Duck

> It's only one exchange and bitcoin is still in it's infancy. It will take time to get several professional grade exchanges up.  
> 
> If you are worried about bitcoin being fozen, fear not.  I will buy any bitcoins anyone here wants to sell for $20/coin. PM me, I'll transfer you the money isntantly.


Still in its infancy.. so that's the excuse. Last week, it was "to the moon", "money that governments can't touch", etc. etc. Now it's "ohh, well, it's still new, guys, so give it time to work out the kinks. what did you expect, change overnight??" To the moon...wait....governments can't take it...wait...but nerds running these exchanges can. I feel so much better!

And yet here we are... people frozen out of the largest Bitcoin exchange (which didn't freeze people out from the parabolic climb over the past few days/weeks)... just hilarious how in the middle of March, Cypriots were lining up to withdraw from a frozen banking system...now, less than a month after the Cyprus collapse, the whole globe is lining up to withdraw from the Bitcoin market. and are even accepting massive discounts in order to do so if another exchange will "let" them out at a 25% hit...gee, that's a nice little Cypriot haircut...25%...

and what's better is I have money changers replying to this thread offering to buy my fictional Bitcoins that I don't even own for 85% off. lol...

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Somebody is spinning.. either the OP or Mt.Gox.. 
> 
> But I think I'll hold onto my bitcoin.
> 
> 
> https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130411.html


Yes, I am "spinning". Mt.Gox locks down their entire exchange and you buy what their explanation is. That they're being so successful. I'm sure they are for them, but not for Bitcoin users. Scottrade doesn't really care what price the market is at, so long as their clients are giving them $7/trade. 

And if Mt.Gox is seriously telling the truth, it doesn't explain why all the other exchanges are at $90/coin while Mt.Gox is at $123. That would indicate the market was halted due to further selling--not due to "zomg huge # of new accounts, we gotta shutdown for half a day". 

Believe what you want (me, Mt.Gox, whatever else you look at), or think for yourself. Mt.Gox is no different from the confidence pushers in government. Bernanke says, "Oh, yeah, things are great!" Obama says, "Oh, yeah, things are great!" and Mt.Gox says, "Oh, yeah, things are great!"

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## Maverick

> I'll pay $40/coin.
> 
> Anybody else wanna turn this thread into a trading auction?


I'm down for that.  I'm still looking to buy. Will match/beat danno's offers

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I'm down for that.  I'm still looking to buy. Will match/beat danno's offers


Again, money changers offering for you to sell your frozen, illiquid bitcoins to them at 75%++ off. 

HiLaRiOuS

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## Gaddafi Duck

Dannno must be nervous.  One Bitcoin trade he got into was around $77..we're getting close to that point 

We're actually at $77 on one bitcoin exchange. Others are at $86. I laugh at the massive divergence and arbitrage opportunities that obviously aren't being exploited. Because they can't.

Anyone care to point out why there are huge divergences among the Bitcoin exchanges for identical currency exchanges, and why they AREN'T being arbitraged away to parity?

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## oyarde

You guys .... I was going to offer $2.50.....

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## brandon

> Still in its infancy.. so that's the excuse. Last week, it was "to the moon", "money that governments can't touch", etc. etc. Now it's "ohh, well, it's still new, guys, so give it time to work out the kinks. what did you expect, change overnight??" To the moon...wait....governments can't take it...wait...but nerds running these exchanges can. I feel so much better!


I'm not here to make any excuses. I own no bitcoins and never have. I have no skin in the game. I'm not a fanatic and I try to always remain realistic. Because some other people said stupid things is not a reason to discredit what I say.  Are you interested or capable about having a real discussion or are you just here to laugh at people?

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## oyarde

I can throw in three pounds of my home grown yellow onions and I will pay shipping .At least you can eat them

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I'm not here to make any excuses. I own no bitcoins and never have. I have no skin in the game. I'm not a fanatic and I try to always remain realistic. Because some other people said stupid things is not a reason to discredit what I say.  Are you interested or capable about having a real discussion or are you just here to laugh at people?


I'm here to laugh.

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## jclay2

This is going to be interesting. Maybe the exchange couldn't handle all the buy orders that were coming in post crash. /endsarc

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## oyarde

> Dannno must be nervous.  One Bitcoin trade he got into was around $77..we're getting close to that point 
> 
> We're actually at $77 on one bitcoin exchange. Others are at $86. I laugh at the massive divergence and arbitrage opportunities that obviously aren't being exploited. Because they can't.
> 
> Anyone care to point out why there are huge divergences among the Bitcoin exchanges for identical currency exchanges, and why they AREN'T being arbitraged away to parity?


I dunno , but I can tell you what my silver dimes are worth .

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Again, money changers offering for you to sell your frozen, illiquid bitcoins to them at 75%++ off. 
> 
> HiLaRiOuS


My remaining coins aren't frozen. I can transfer them to any wallet I want.

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## Tod

How can it be suspended?  I thought the whole point of this is that it can't be controlled or manipulated.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> My remaining coins aren't frozen. I can transfer them to any wallet I want.


Cool. Transfer them over to a wallet on Mt.Gox's exchange.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> How can it be suspended?  I thought the whole point of this is that it can't be controlled or manipulated.


One exchange (the largest) suspended trading. Hopefully people learn from this ordeal and go to other exchanges in the future, or better yet, MtGox shuts down (assuming people can withdraw their funds).

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## schiffheadbaby

I worry this is going to bankrupt a lot of quality RP fans

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## oyarde

> My remaining coins aren't frozen. I can transfer them to any wallet I want.


How are you faring with yours 999 ? Well , I hope.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Cool. Transfer them over to a wallet on Mt.Gox's exchange.


Why would I want to?

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## oyarde

> I worry this is going to bankrupt a lot of quality RP fans


I hope not .

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## Gaddafi Duck

> How can it be suspended?  I thought the whole point of this is that it can't be controlled or manipulated.


And Cypriots "thought" their money was safe/insured up to 100,000 Euros...turns out the ECB and EU made good and allowed that promise to remain true, but initially, EVERYONE'S account was seized.

Look, people will make up excuses saying, "Ohh, but I can transfer my bitcoins out of my wallet to any wallet!" to "I don't use Mt.Gox. Those are for noobs. There are multiple bitcoin exchanges", yet at the end of the day, Mt.Gox moves the market for bitcoins. If Mt.Gox crashes/gets hacked, as it did in 2011, the value for bitcoins everywhere plummets. Checkout Bitcoins back in 2011. Went from $1 to $30, and crashed back down. Why? Mt.Gox was hacked. It didn't matter if you had money in your Bitcoin wallet, or if you never used Mt.Gox before. Every Bitcoin was damaged in value.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> How are you faring with yours 999 ? Well , I hope.


Yes. I was able to sell a couple around $240 (the top was $260), which gave me back my original investment. When the price hit $200, I figured we were in for a plunge and sold a good chunk. 

I got in before $50, and didn't buy after $100.

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## dannno

> Cool. Transfer them over to a wallet on Mt.Gox's exchange.


...Or transfer them from Mt.Gox exchange to another wallet, that's all open.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Why would I want to?


To...invest in the future of Bitcoin? It needs to succeed..but it can't without the seeds (*cough* carcasses *cough*) of initial users to...lay out the foundation to which Bitcoin's architecture can mature and blossom into a gigantic global NYSE-like exchange and annihilates the manipulated FOREX markets.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> And Cypriots "thought" their money was safe/insured up to 100,000 Euros...turns out the ECB and EU made good and allowed that promise to remain true, but initially, EVERYONE'S account was seized.
> 
> Look, people will make up excuses saying, "Ohh, but I can transfer my bitcoins out of my wallet to any wallet!" to "I don't use Mt.Gox. Those are for noobs. There are multiple bitcoin exchanges", yet at the end of the day, *Mt.Gox moves the market for bitcoins*. If Mt.Gox crashes/gets hacked, as it did in 2011, the value for bitcoins everywhere plummets. Checkout Bitcoins back in 2011. Went from $1 to $30, and crashed back down. Why? Mt.Gox was hacked. It didn't matter if you had money in your Bitcoin wallet, or if you never used Mt.Gox before. Every Bitcoin was damaged in value.


Absolutely. Which is why I hope this is the end for MtGox.

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## Tod

> One exchange (the largest) suspended trading. Hopefully people learn from this ordeal and go to other exchanges in the future, or better yet, MtGox shuts down (assuming people can withdraw their funds).


I thought Bitcoin is P2P.  If trading is routed through exchanges, wouldn't that make it easy for the gov't to control (raid the exchanges)?  I'm sure I just am too ignorant about how it works, but this news is doing nothing to allay my reservations about digital currency because the situation seems even more subject to manipulation than I first thought.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Yes. I was able to sell a couple around $240 (the top was $260), which gave me back my original investment. When the price hit $200, I figured we were in for a plunge and sold a good chunk. 
> 
> I got in before $50, and didn't buy after $100.


But, when people say they "got in" and "sold at price X (which always seems to be at the top of the market)" my question is: How much did you put in originally?

If you bought thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins and quintupled your money, you did a good gamble (assuming you were able to get your funds to settle and convert back into "worthless" FRN's that you could then pull out of the market and use to buy something in the real world.).

But chances are, few did that. Most purchased about $200 worth or so of Bitcoins. Whether you made a profit or not is pretty irrelevant. If you expose yourself to a high probability of loss, in the long run, you won't have a long run. That's why casinos don't care if you pulled out the $100,000 jackpot on a slot machine one day, because they know, in the long run, they'll make money. 

It's not an "investment" that you did...it's "speculation". You speculated "correctly", maybe, but there is nothing "smart" about putting money into a digital currency that has proven to have none of the features everyone touted it to have, just as someone who put in a dollar and pulled the arm on the slot machine who ended up winning $100,000 cannot be called a "smart" gambler.

There's no such thing as a "smart" gambler. No such thing as a "smart" speculator. If you're making a bet that a majority of the time will lose, or exposes you to high risk, then that can't be passed off an investing, nor as being "smart".

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## Aldanga

> I thought Bitcoin is P2P.  If trading is routed through exchanges, wouldn't that make it easy for the gov't to control (raid the exchanges)?  I'm sure I just am too ignorant about how it works, but this news is doing nothing to allay my reservations about digital currency because the situation seems even more subject to manipulation than I first thought.


You can always send BTC to another wallet in exchange for good or currency, but exchanges like Mt Gox make it easy to convert between BTC and other currencies.

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## oyarde

> Yes. I was able to sell a couple around $240 (the top was $260), which gave me back my original investment. When the price hit $200, I figured we were in for a plunge and sold a good chunk. 
> 
> I got in before $50, and didn't buy after $100.


Most Excellent !

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## ronpaulfollower999

> I thought Bitcoin is P2P.  If trading is routed through exchanges, wouldn't that make it easy for the gov't to control (raid the exchanges)?  I'm sure I just am too ignorant about how it works, but this news is doing nothing to allay my reservations about digital currency because the situation seems even more subject to manipulation than I first thought.


It is P2P. The only trading that has stopped is trading USD/Euro/Yen/etc to BTC on the biggest exchange. If I had a business that accepted Bitcoins, I can still receive Bitcoins at this very moment.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Absolutely. Which is why I hope this is the end for MtGox.


So that Mt.Gox's 2.0 successor can suffer the same problems?

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## oyarde

> It is P2P. The only trading that has stopped is trading USD/Euro/Yen/etc to BTC on the biggest exchange. If I had a business that accepted Bitcoins, I can still receive Bitcoins at this very moment.


If I could use them @ local business, I would have picked some up @ the get go .

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## oyarde

I have to swing by the airport tonight , nothing would make me happier than to pay for parking without FRN's .

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## ronpaulfollower999

> But, when people say they "got in" and "sold at price X (which always seems to be at the top of the market)" my question is: How much did you put in originally?
> 
> If you bought thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins and quintupled your money, you did a good gamble (assuming you were able to get your funds to settle and convert back into "worthless" FRN's that you could then pull out of the market and use to buy something in the real world.).
> 
> But chances are, few did that. Most purchased about $200 worth or so of Bitcoins. Whether you made a profit or not is pretty irrelevant. If you expose yourself to a high probability of loss, in the long run, you won't have a long run. That's why casinos don't care if you pulled out the $100,000 jackpot on a slot machine one day, because they know, in the long run, they'll make money. 
> 
> It's not an "investment" that you did...it's "speculation". You speculated "correctly", maybe, but there is nothing "smart" about putting money into a digital currency that has proven to have none of the features everyone touted it to have, just as someone who put in a dollar and pulled the arm on the slot machine who ended up winning $100,000 cannot be called a "smart" gambler.
> 
> There's no such thing as a "smart" gambler. No such thing as a "smart" speculator. If you're making a bet that a majority of the time will lose, or exposes you to high risk, then that can't be passed off an investing, nor as being "smart".


I wasn't planning on speculating. 




> The last 12-24 hours has certainly been somewhat parabolic for Bitcoins, but there is absolutely no evidence that the Fed is buying Bitcoins. I wonder what exchange they're doing it through?


I went to bed the night before with the price at $115. I woke up and it was $145. That left me a little worried. When the price jumped to $260 yesterday, I pretty much figured it was a bubble. I don't think there is anything wrong with taking some $$$ profit off of that though.

I still own Bitcoins (not many), and still like the idea behind it. The infrastructure wasn't there to support such a high price though. I do look forward to the next couple years to see what developers come up with.

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## Tod

> I have to swing by the airport tonight , nothing would make me happier than to pay for parking without FRN's .


Some would say that you CAN pay in bitcoins via the online business (es?).  But if there are only a handful of those online businesses, wouldn't that make it very very easy to stop any transactions with local stores that don't accept bitcoins?

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## dannno

> If I could use them @ local business, I would have picked some up @ the get go .


You should start a local business that accepts bitcoins

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I wasn't planning on speculating. 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to bed the night before with the price at $115. I woke up and it was $145. That left me a little worried. When the price jumped to $260 yesterday, I pretty much figured it was a bubble. I don't think there is anything wrong with taking some $$$ profit off of that though.
> 
> I still own Bitcoins (not many), and still like the idea behind it. The infrastructure wasn't there to support such a high price though. I do look forward to the next couple years to see what developers come up with.


You weren't planning on speculating...yet you bought something that exists only in cyberspace that throws off no cash flow, nor has any functional uses in the real world...

It depends on what your definition of "is" is.

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## dannno

> You weren't planning on speculating...yet you bought something that exists only in cyberspace that throws off no cash flow, nor has any functional uses in the real world...
> 
> It depends on what your definition of "is" is.


I bought silver with my bitcoin when it was worth $250/coin, how is that not a functional use?

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## newbitech

> I'll pay $40/coin.
> 
> Anybody else wanna turn this thread into a trading auction?


40.00001

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I bought silver with my bitcoin when it was worth $250/coin, how is that not a functional use?


This was what, one or two days ago?

So you sold your bitcoins, transfered the money over to your bank, and withdrew it to buy silver, all within a matter of less than 48 hours?

Considering the Fed's banking clearinghouse requires a minimum of 3 days for funds to settle for basic electronic transfers, I'm raising the BS flag

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## Crystallas

Trading hasn't halted.

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## oyarde

> Trading hasn't halted.


What is the current price ?

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## Boss

> I dunno , but I can tell you what my silver dimes are worth .


Well, what are they worth? Are you speaking of intrinsic value / utility, or are you speaking in terms of USD?

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## Crystallas

> Absolutely. Which is why I hope this is the end for MtGox.


Agreed. Gox is garbage, has been for some time. It's the n00b exchange that only n00bs trade with, because they are n00bs, and know nothing more. 

Also, Gox has lost that 80% a while ago. They were down to 70% of the BTC market in December, and it kept dropping. Yet, people still think they have been the 80%+ exchange, like they proxy-advertise on their homepage. Hopefully Gox does die, this should shake off the centralized trading, which is the exact opposite of what BTC was meant to be. 

There is an open source p2p exchange in the works, which will completely decentralize exchanges. And because no central server will host it, making it impossible to DDoS.

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## Crystallas

> What is the current price ?


$65

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## oyarde

> Well, what are they worth? Are you speaking of intrinsic value / utility, or are you speaking in terms of USD?


$2 , I probably usually keep about 16 ounces of them around various places.I also accept them for eggs I sell.One silver dime, one dozen organic brown eggs.

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## oyarde

> $65


Here are things I am more familiar with , corn $6.34 , oil $94.45 , Brent Crude $105.79 , one yr oil forecast $109 , Natural Gas , $4.11, Copper $3.41 , Silver $27.63 , Gold $1560 1/2 .

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Agreed. Gox is garbage, has been for some time. It's the n00b exchange that only n00bs trade with, because they are n00bs, and know nothing more. 
> 
> Also, Gox has lost that 80% a while ago. They were down to 70% of the BTC market in December, and it kept dropping. Yet, people still think they have been the 80%+ exchange, like they proxy-advertise on their homepage. Hopefully Gox does die, this should shake off the centralized trading, which is the exact opposite of what BTC was meant to be. 
> There is an open source p2p exchange in the works, which will completely decentralize exchanges. And because no central server will host it, making it impossible to DDoS.


You don't understand the free market. The ambitious tone behind suggesting what Bitcoin is/was "*meant*" to be is just repeating the arrogant precedence of all of human history with government experimentation. Politicians would love to create their own utopia exactly how they would like it to be designed, but it doesn't work that way. Bitcoin doesn't work that way. To suggest Bitcoin needs to be a certain way contradicts your own argument that it needs to be "Decentralized". To suggest bitcoin needs to be decentralized means you're coming at it from a very centralized perspective: your own, while trying to impress on everyone else, the decentralized public, on how things for Bitcoin "should" be.


Bitcoin is meant to be whatever the market decides. Not you. The market decided Mt.Gox would be the main market for Bitcoin exchange. You say the noobs use it; so the market is noob because it doesn't jive with your clan's dogmatic view of the way things "*should* " be. 

The market natually consolidates industries. If there's a thousand Bitcoin exchanges or if there's only a handful, it doesn't matter. It's an irrelevant point to debate. As Rothbard illustrated, it's a futile as asking "what's the optimal number of peaches in an economy?" Such a question is ridiculous because nobody knows the optimal number of peaches, nor do you know the optimum number of exchanges. By suggesting Mt.Gox holding 70% or whatever of the Bitcoin volume isn't a "good" thing because it isn't how you'd like Bitcoin to be has an underlying tone that you know better than the market.

Besides, like I said, the market consolidates the number of Bitcoin exchanges that exist/will exist. An exchange's value is based on the liquidity it can provide its users. If you have a million Bitcoin exchanges, but only a million Bitcoin users, the exchange system will be quite illiquid. Naturally, the market will consolidate the number of Bitcoin exchanges down to where there's more liquidity. Now that the market is pruning out smaller exchanges, the question then becomes more efficient pricing. If in the real world the USD to Euro exchange rate is 1.30:1, but in the Bitcoin world it's 2:1, that's terribly inefficient pricing by all of the exchanges.

Ironically, with how high tech Bitcoin supposedly is, the pricing is analogous to what you would find in a pre-industrial society. Before we had cars and the telegraph, values of certain things varied widely depending upon where you were. Proximity was a HUGE thing. Bank notes traded at discounts the further you were away from the bank by distance (due to the fact that it would be more difficult for you to travel to that bank requesting to redeem the bank notes for gold/silver). Now, Bitcoins are traded digitally, and yet even with transactions costs at near zero with instantaneous transfer between parties, it's pricing currency pairs at wide divergences to parallel markets.

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## Crystallas

> Here are things I am more familiar with , corn $6.34 , oil $94.45 , Brent Crude $105.79 , one yr oil forecast $109 , Natural Gas , $4.11, Copper $3.41 , Silver $27.63 , Gold $1560 1/2 .


You asked.  I own oil stock, I own gold and silver too. But you didn't ask about those, you asked what the current BTC price was. 

Actually, I bought 100oz .999 SM Silver bars(2x50) just a week ago with BTC. My total USD investment in that specific 100oz buy, was $9USD. How much is 100oz of .999 silver now?

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## Crystallas

> You don't understand the free market. The ambitious tone behind suggesting what Bitcoin is/was "*meant*" to be is just repeating the arrogant precedence of all of human history with government experimentation. Politicians would love to create their own utopia exactly how they would like it to be designed, but it doesn't work that way. Bitcoin doesn't work that way. To suggest Bitcoin needs to be a certain way contradicts your own argument that it needs to be "Decentralized". To suggest bitcoin needs to be decentralized means you're coming at it from a very centralized perspective: your own, while trying to impress on everyone else, the decentralized public, on how things for Bitcoin "should" be.
> 
> 
> Bitcoin is meant to be whatever the market decides. Not you. The market decided Mt.Gox would be the main market for Bitcoin exchange. You say the noobs use it; so the market is noob because it doesn't jive with your clan's dogmatic view of the way things "*should* " be. 
> 
> The market natually consolidates industries. If there's a thousand Bitcoin exchanges or if there's only a handful, it doesn't matter. It's an irrelevant point to debate. As Rothbard illustrated, it's a futile as asking "what's the optimal number of peaches in an economy?" Such a question is ridiculous because nobody knows the optimal number of peaches, nor do you know the optimum number of exchanges. By suggesting Mt.Gox holding 70% or whatever of the Bitcoin volume isn't a "good" thing because it isn't how you'd like Bitcoin to be has an underlying tone that you know better than the market.
> 
> Besides, like I said, the market consolidates the number of Bitcoin exchanges that exist/will exist. An exchange's value is based on the liquidity it can provide its users. If you have a million Bitcoin exchanges, but only a million Bitcoin users, the exchange system will be quite illiquid. Naturally, the market will consolidate the number of Bitcoin exchanges down to where there's more liquidity. Now that the market is pruning out smaller exchanges, the question then becomes more efficient pricing. If in the real world the USD to Euro exchange rate is 1.30:1, but in the Bitcoin world it's 2:1, that's terribly inefficient pricing by all of the exchanges.
> 
> Ironically, with how high tech Bitcoin supposedly is, the pricing is analogous to what you would find in a pre-industrial society. Before we had cars and the telegraph, values of certain things varied widely depending upon where you were. Proximity was a HUGE thing. Buying imports in a major trading center would likely be cheaper than purchasing a similar import in a rural area due to distance. Now, Bitcoins are traded digitally, and yet even with transactions costs at near zero with instantaneous transfer between parties, it's pricing currency pairs and wide divergences to parallel markets.


You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? I saw your comment about the USD:Euro exchange the other day. I facepalmed, because you can't make that trade in the real world. It was accurate all around. Plus, you made nearly all statements based on Gox, which has been lagged for weeks now(which means you don't even know what the rates are or how exchanges work). That's like posting Fox News or NYT information, and claiming it is unbiased and not misleading at all.

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## oyarde

> You asked.  I own oil stock, I own gold and silver too. But you didn't ask about those, you asked what the current BTC price was. 
> 
> Actually, I bought 100oz .999 SM Silver bars(2x50) just a week ago with BTC. My total USD investment in that specific 100oz buy, was $9USD. How much is 100oz of .999 silver now?


Excellent .

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? I saw your comment about the USD:Euro exchange the other day. I facepalmed, because you can't make that trade in the real world. It was accurate all around. Plus, you made nearly all statements based on Gox, which has been lagged for weeks now(which means you don't even know what the rates are or how exchanges work). That's like posting Fox News or NYT information, and claiming it is unbiased and not misleading at all.


LoL...you facepalmed, eh? You can't make that trade in the real world? Break this down and tell me how I couldn't do this:

MT Gox USD = $170
MT Gox Euro = $90

World FOREX USD to Euro = $1.30

Tell me how that trade couldn't exist in the real world. Because the exchanges are broken? Exactly. So if arbitrage isn't allowed to work, you have incredibly inefficient markets, because they aren't markets at all. If you can buy gasoline for $1 and then sell it down the street for $2, you'd make that trade all day. Likewise, if I was holding Euros and could buy 53% more USD Bitcoins on MT Gox versus the real world FOREX market, and then cash out and convert those USD's in the world forex market, I would make 53% instant profit assuming $0 transaction costs. Now obviously there is transaction cost to these trades, but it's insignifcant.

Oh, and update: The MT Gox USD market is now $123, but the MT Gox EURO market is $86. 

So, how can the USD Bitcoin drop from $170 to $123, and yet the Euro only drop from $90 to $86??? 

Ohhh, because you're wrong and you don't understand what arbitrage is.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

MT Gox USD = $170
 MT Gox Euro = $90

Implied MT Gox USD to MT Gox Euro = $1.88888 USD's/Euro
World FOREX market for USD to Euro = $1.30 USD's/Euro

So, $0.5888888 price difference to purchase the exact same currency. Yep, I'm right. Facepalm more.

----------


## Crystallas

> MT Gox USD = $170
>  MT Gox Euro = $90
> 
> Implied MT Gox USD to MT Gox Euro = $1.88888 USD's/Euro
> World FOREX market for USD to Euro = $1.30 USD's/Euro
> 
> So, $0.5888888 price difference to purchase the exact same currency. Yep, I'm right. Facepalm more.


*Then why didn't you do it?* That's right, because you didn't use the real trade exchanges. You used past exchange data for one, and current(current at that time) for another. So when the value of one trades one hour ago, and is worth x, then compare with another trade that happened 10 minutes ago, while the item was worth z, they are not the same. Fail. 

Pretty simple, a child could understand.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> *Then why didn't you do it?* That's right, because you didn't use the real trade exchanges. You used past exchange data for one, and current(current at that time) for another. So when the value of one trades one hour ago, and is worth x, then compare with another trade that happened 10 minutes ago, while the item was worth z, they are not the same. Fail. 
> 
> Pretty simple, a child could understand.


Actually, it was real time data I used. 

And the reason why I didn't do it is A) Because I refuse to use Bitcoins for the very reason that it gets incredibly mispriced and B) You can only arbitrage the market at select times that are arbitrary. Obviously due to incredibly inefficient exchanges and market pricing. I don't try to chase getting into a market when getting in is difficult. So, getting out is proving very difficult for those using Bitcoin exchanges to do so. Not my cup of tea to setup camp and wait for someone to come walking by on an abandoned road.

----------


## newbitech

> Agreed. Gox is garbage, has been for some time. It's the n00b exchange that only n00bs trade with, because they are n00bs, and know nothing more. 
> .



you are so 1337

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> *Then why didn't you do it?* That's right, because you didn't use the real trade exchanges. You used past exchange data for one, and current(current at that time) for another. So when the value of one trades one hour ago, and is worth x, then compare with another trade that happened 10 minutes ago, while the item was worth z, they are not the same. Fail. 
> 
> Pretty simple, a child could understand.


Hey, checkout this site:

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Checkout all the trades that occurred 0 minutes ago. I'm seeing Euros at 70 on one and 54.3 on another exchange. Both were traded 0 minutes ago. I'm also seeing USD's at $60/Bitcoin. So in the real world, Euros are worth more than Dollars, yet on Bitcoin exchanges, US Dollars are worth more in some cases. I WIN!!! Hahahah

----------


## muh_roads

> I bought silver with my bitcoin when it was worth $250/coin, how is that not a functional use?


You did that well.  Who did you go with?

----------


## Petar

Everyone always has access to their bitcoins, so this is not at all analogous to banks locking people out. 

The market is extremely volatile, if some exchanges want to halt trading then that is their own business. 

If I had the money, I would be buying more bitcoins right now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Hey, checkout this site:
> 
> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
> 
> Checkout all the trades that occurred 0 minutes ago. I'm seeing Euros at 70 on one and 54.3 on another exchange. Both were traded 0 minutes ago. I'm also seeing USD's at $60/Bitcoin. So in the real world, Euros are worth more than Dollars, yet on Bitcoin exchanges, US Dollars are worth more in some cases. I WIN!!! Hahahah


You win?

If you don't like competing currencies then you must be a debt note banker?

----------


## Crystallas

> Hey, checkout this site:
> 
> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
> 
> Checkout all the trades that occurred 0 minutes ago. I'm seeing Euros at 70 on one and 54.3 on another exchange. Both were traded 0 minutes ago. I'm also seeing USD's at $60/Bitcoin. So in the real world, Euros are worth more than Dollars, yet on Bitcoin exchanges, US Dollars are worth more in some cases. I WIN!!! Hahahah


Ugh, no. Because again. It is lagged trades. I know you don't want to listen to read that, but Gox has been lagged for weeks. And Gox isn't the only exchange with lag. So you get 1 value at one moment, and another at another moment. Arbitrage happens, and it happens in every exchange, but not the way you are saying it did with USD/Euro.

----------


## Crystallas

> you are so 1337


I know, sorry. I didn't mean to come off arrogant. But I spend a lot of time warning people about Gox, and simply saying "I told you so" doesn't seem to work.

----------


## Crystallas

> You win?
> 
> I want to poop on competing currencies compared to FRN's too!  I love the bankers...because they love me!


He won, because he actually made that trade... oh wait, no he didn't. Aside from the reality of the exchanges, he lost out.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> Ugh, no. Because again. It is lagged trades. I know you don't want to listen to read that, but Gox has been lagged for weeks. And Gox isn't the only exchange with lag. So you get 1 value at one moment, and another at another moment. Arbitrage happens, and it happens in every exchange, but not the way you are saying it did with USD/Euro.


I know you don't want to listen, but I'm not quoting Mt.Gox. Look at the exchanges. Are they all lagged to where there's a 28.9% difference in Euro price? How long is this lag taking? Oh, you're making it up.

Mt.Gox has had laggy moments, but you're extrapolating that to be "Mt.Gox and the rest have been in perma-lag for weeks". 

And again, I'm looking at all of the exchanges based on that market site. It looks to me like I'm either right, or you're right that every Bitcoin exchange is laggy trades...which means I'm right about how impractical Bitcoins are. Because if you put in a trade but don't know if it's going to be $70 or $170 when the dust settles, then it's ridiculous.

It's literally becoming the game in the arcade where you push the button to stop the light on the "jackpot", but you always seem to hit the "4 tickets/6 tickets" lights that are surrounding it. Ohhh well...

Either way, I'm right. FACEPALM MORE! Hahahha

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> He won, because he actually made that trade... oh wait, no he didn't. Aside from the reality of the exchanges, he lost out.


No, I didn't make the trade. Because I understand how ridiculous Bitcoin is. It's speculation; I don't speculate. 

Like I've been saying, there's a reason why I don't make the trade: Because the market hasn't arbitraged the divergences away. Knowing that, why would I want to get involved in that market where it's terribly inefficiently priced?

----------


## oyarde

> Everyone always has access to their bitcoins, so this is not at all analogous to banks locking people out. 
> 
> The market is extremely volatile, if some exchanges want to halt trading then that is their own business. 
> 
> If I had the money, I would be buying more bitcoins right now.


Volatile is right

----------


## Crystallas

> I know you don't want to listen, but I'm not quoting Mt.Gox. Look at the exchanges. Are they all lagged to where there's a 28.9% difference in Euro price? How long is this lag taking? Oh, you're making it up.
> 
> Mt.Gox has had laggy moments, but you're extrapolating that to be "Mt.Gox and the rest have been in perma-lag for weeks". 
> 
> And again, I'm looking at all of the exchanges based on that market site. It looks to me like I'm either right, or you're right that every Bitcoin exchange is laggy trades...which means I'm right about how impractical Bitcoins are. Because if you put in a trade but don't know if it's going to be $70 or $170 when the dust settles, then it's ridiculous.
> 
> It's literally becoming the game in the arcade where you push the button to stop the light on the "jackpot", but you always seem to hit the "4 tickets/6 tickets" lights that are surrounding it. Ohhh well...
> 
> Either way, I'm right. FACEPALM MORE! Hahahha


Then what are you waiting for. Make some money.   You win when you make money.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> You win?
> 
> If you don't like competing currencies then you must be a debt note banker?


I love how you're so obtuse you can't discern an attack on a failed attempt at a "currency" from an attack on Hayek's arguments supporting the idea of denationalizing the money supply.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> Then what are you waiting for. Make some money.   You win when you make money.


I told you already. Feel free to actually read my posts.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

Look at all those 0 minute trades on different exchanges with wide price divergences. For homogenous "goods", this is ridiculous.

----------


## Crystallas

> No, I didn't make the trade. Because I understand how ridiculous Bitcoin is. It's speculation; I don't speculate. 
> 
> Like I've been saying, there's a reason why I don't make the trade: Because the market hasn't arbitraged the divergences away. Knowing that, why would I want to get involved in that market where it's terribly inefficiently priced?


Oh. So which one is it then? 

You don't trade one at the same time as the other. You need to trade 3 times to make a USD to Euro exchange, and transfer funds twice. You need to trade quite a bit to cover the transactions, and you have to have perfect timing that even the bots can not do. But apparently, in your mind, this is all possible in theory(to take advantage of the USD:Euro rates), which makes it a reality.

----------


## awake

The best way to destroy a competing currency is to create digital dollars, buy up bitcoin like they do with bond purchases, then cease buying operations and sell hard into the market. Crash and burn it. It is  an easy operation to those who are tasked with defending the premier digital keystroke money. Hell, they don't even have to "mine" their worthless keystroke money. 

If I had command of a monopoly dollar program this is what I would do. Saves getting legislation and gets the job done.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> Oh. So which one is it then? 
> 
> You don't trade one at the same time as the other. You need to trade 3 times to make a USD to Euro exchange, and transfer funds twice. You need to trade quite a bit to cover the transactions, and you have to have perfect timing that even the bots can not do. But apparently, in your mind, this is all possible in theory(to take advantage of the USD:Euro rates), which makes it a reality.


You just don't get it, which proves my point all along 

I can't believe I bothered debating this with you as long as I did, considering you came back with THAT. Oh my...

----------


## muh_roads

> The best way to destroy a competing currency is to print dollars, buy up bitcoin like bond purchases, then cease buying operations and sell hard into the market. Crash and burn it. It is  an easy operation to those who are tasked with defending the premier digital keystroke money.


Except there isn't enough BTC to go around to do that.  Otherwise the current BTC richest on Forbes would not be the richest.  Those values would be much higher.  And if the values were tremendously higher, then that would mean more than 11 million exist and most wouldn't care to begin with.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

Hey Crystallas, are all the Bitcoin exchanges lagging? How do I know the "true" value of Bitcoin?? hahahha:

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

Oh, and just to prove Crystallas is making stuff up by implying there's some perma-lag on these exchanges...checkout the 24 hour prices on these exchanges:

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

I would hope the trades aren't lagged more than a day. If they are, checkout the weekly highs and weekly lows and compare.

Oh, I guess I am right after all! The "lag" argument is way overblown. The "lag" is called Mt.Gox shutting down its exchange until tonight, and the smaller players are all over the place with Bitcoin valuations.

----------


## muh_roads

"My name is Gaddafi Duck and I am a liberal. If I'm not a liberal, I am and just don't see it. I see other people making more money than me.  That just isn't fair.  When the rich suffer, I cheer.  Everybody must be as miserable as me."

dannno accurately pointed out your agenda on the very first page.

----------


## Petar

> The best way to destroy a competing currency is to create digital dollars, buy up bitcoin like they do with bond purchases, then cease buying operations and sell hard into the market. Crash and burn it. It is  an easy operation to those who are tasked with defending the premier digital keystroke money. Hell, they don't even have to "mine" their worthless keystroke money. 
> 
> If I had command of a monopoly dollar program this is what I would do. Saves getting legislation and gets the job done.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this is a part of what is happening right now. 

I don't believe that it will have the lasting effect that they are interested in though, in fact I think that it will backfire.

----------


## oyarde

Wonder what prices will be around shortly after that exchange opens back up ? I will be running to the airport to pick someone up , so , I will miss that .

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> "My name is Gaddafi Duck and I am a liberal. If I'm not a liberal, I am and just don't see it. I see other people making more money than me.  That just isn't fair.  When the rich suffer, I cheer.  Everybody must be as miserable as me."
> 
> dannno accurately pointed out your agenda on the very first page.


lmao--you mad bro? Cuz I pointed out that becoming a Bitcoin fanboy vs. defending Hayekian arguments on competing currencies are mutually exclusive ?

I'm a "liberal," and yet Rothbard is my hero. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

----------


## newbitech

> I know, sorry. I didn't mean to come off arrogant. But I spend a lot of time warning people about Gox, and simply saying "I told you so" doesn't seem to work.


Ok, don't be sorry, I understand the passion behind the technology and the experience we are all going thru and witnessing.  I am not trying to counter anything you said, just expressing my initial reaction to how you came across.  

So anyways, my experience with Mt. Gox hasn't been very encouraging.  But I will say this, it's definitely been a learning tool regardless of anyone's level of intelligence or experience in markets or trading.

Simply put, no one has ever really seen anything quite like this.

----------


## awake

For those who doubt competing digital currency, WTF do you think all government run "money" is? It isn't printed anymore, it is created by a computer keystroke.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> Wonder what prices will be around shortly after that exchange opens back up ? I will be running to the airport to pick someone up , so , I will miss that .


well, the open exchanges are saying Bitcoin is anywhere from $60 to $75 USD for a Bitcoin. Euro bitcoins are anywhere from 53 euros to 90. 

Also, Microsoft stock may trade anywhere from $10 to $50 depending on what exchange. You can't use the NYSE, though, that's lagged up.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> For those who doubt digital currency, WTF do you think all government run "money" is? It isn't printed anymore, it is created by a computer keystroke.


For all those who *don't* doubt digital currency, WTF do you think all government run "money" is?

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

I don't quite understand how, if these prices are so lagged as Crystallas suggests, that so many people are coming on here saying they got out at $240/$250 when the price peaked at about $266???

So, the price didn't lag. Otherwise, how were two people in this thread alone able to cash out at those levels when the market quickly plummeted from those highs?? 

I don't quite understand....so the lag must be overblown. Again, Crystallas convincing himself of his false reality.

----------


## muh_roads

> I love how you're so obtuse you can't discern an attack on a failed attempt at a "currency" from an attack on Hayek's arguments supporting the idea of denationalizing the money supply.


Last I checked, Bitpay and SR are still going strong?  What has failed exactly?

Is everything you do in life measured in a 24-48 hour window?  2-4 years from now all these bumps in the road will be long-forgotten.

----------


## awake

> For all those who *don't* doubt digital currency, WTF do you think all government run "money" is?


As far as I'm concerned digital money can work as long as there isn't any way for raving lunatics babbling 'monetary policy" with the ability to create it with the enter button. And Bitcoin can back itself with any commodity.

----------


## DGambler

I'll pay $60 for anyone's BTC, PM me and I'll transfer the money

----------


## oyarde

> well, the open exchanges are saying Bitcoin is anywhere from $60 to $75 USD for a Bitcoin. Euro bitcoins are anywhere from 53 euros to 90. 
> 
> Also, Microsoft stock may trade anywhere from $10 to $50 depending on what exchange. You can't use the NYSE, though, that's lagged up.


LOL , I am not interested in NYSE or Microsoft, lol

----------


## muh_roads

> lmao--you mad bro? Cuz I pointed out that becoming a Bitcoin fanboy vs. defending Hayekian arguments on competing currencies are mutually exclusive ?
> 
> I'm a "liberal," and yet Rothbard is my hero. Thanks for clearing that up for me.


I think the fact that all your arguments against BTC are so razor focused on the exchanges that it shows how little you understand BTC or why it has value to so many to begin with.

Hate on incompetent exchanges, that is fine...do what you wish.  I hate Comex. But I don't hate on silver for it.

Your finger pointing is reversed.

----------


## oyarde

> I think the fact that all your arguments against BTC are so razor focused on the exchanges that it shows how little you understand BTC or why it has value to so many to begin with.
> 
> I hate Comex.  I don't hate on silver for it.


I do not use Comex , but have nothing against it .

----------


## muh_roads

> I do not use Comex , but have nothing against it .


Then why dislike FRN's?  It's all paper since you don't seem to care.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> I think the fact that all your arguments against BTC are so razor focused on the exchanges that it shows how little you understand BTC or why it has value to so many to begin with.
> 
> Hate on incompetent exchanges, that is fine...do what you wish.  I hate Comex. But I don't hate on silver for it.
> 
> Your finger pointing is reversed.


The reason why I'm razor focused on the exchanges is--BECAUSE!-- *drum roll*

*keep drum rolling*

The exchanges determine the value of Bitcoins! Without the exchanges, you have one guy asking for $20/bitcoin while another asking $200. The time and trouble it would take to matchup and make a "good" deal would make it rather impractical.

This is how the entire food supply of the world works. They use exchanges. Chicago is the dog that wags the tail for much of the global grain trade. Smaller exchanges price off of Chicago. Then, when you're in the middle of Kansas looking to sell wheat, you adjust your price based on the supply/demand around you. That's called the "basis". Basis determines whether your grain is sold at a discount or premium vs. the futures' price in Chicago. Basis does a tug of war between processing plants across small markets in the USA, which all then influence the futures' price in Chicago.

That's how exchanges work. And that's how food is produced, and how the market knows how much to produce and where to send it to based on supply and demand. 

So yes, I understand quite well the meat and potatoes behind exchanges, and their importance. Furthermore, I understand that without Mt.Gox, you can still use other exchanges. Without other exchanges, I understand you can still send Bitcoins from wallet-to-wallet. I *get* all that. You seem to think I don't. My point isn't whether you can transfer Bitcoins to people. My point is whether the pricing is efficient, which it's not. 

And the exchanges are very, very, VERY much important to the value of your Bitcoins. Without an exchange to draw some sort of figure from, you're left to doing literally peer-to-peer research, which is 18th century stuff. It's why they made exchanges. So when Mt.Gox is on lockdown, that affects the value. So, therefore, everything I've said makes sense and is true. Quit trying to discredit my arguments by saying I don't understand how Bitcoin works, when I clearly do. The value is derived from individuals on Bitcoin's exchanges. If the exchanges are shutdown, Bitcoin transactions become far more cumbersome. The valuations are wildly diverged from person to person, and you have to matchup your buying with another's selling. 

This is why exchanges were created.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> Then why dislike FRN's?  It's all paper since you don't seem to care.


Paladin, without these "paper" exchanges, you'd have no idea what the price of anything would be. Be thankful you have food on the table, because if we didn't have a futures market, there's a good chance you'd be forced to overpay for the food, if any would even exist in your area.

----------


## dannno

> This was what, one or two days ago?
> 
> So you sold your bitcoins, transfered the money over to your bank, and withdrew it to buy silver, all within a matter of less than 48 hours?
> 
> Considering the Fed's banking clearinghouse requires a minimum of 3 days for funds to settle for basic electronic transfers, I'm raising the BS flag


I bought the silver with BITCOIN. You are dense as rock.

----------


## dannno

> You did that well.  Who did you go with?


http://www.amagimetals.com/silver.html

----------


## newbitech

> I don't quite understand how, if these prices are so lagged as Crystallas suggests, that so many people are coming on here saying they got out at $240/$250 when the price peaked at about $266???
> 
> So, the price didn't lag. Otherwise, how were two people in this thread alone able to cash out at those levels when the market quickly plummeted from those highs?? 
> 
> I don't quite understand....so the lag must be overblown. Again, Crystallas convincing himself of his false reality.


well first off they didn't quickly plummet from those highs.

----------


## Jordan

> I don't quite understand how, if these prices are so lagged as Crystallas suggests, that so many people are coming on here saying they got out at $240/$250 when the price peaked at about $266???


The internet is different. No one loses money on the internet. Also, everyone I meet on the internet has a IQ score of at least 140.

----------


## muh_roads

> Paladin, without these "paper" exchanges, you'd have no idea what the price of anything would be. Be thankful you have food on the table, because if we didn't have a futures market, there's a good chance you'd be forced to overpay for the food, if any would even exist in your area.


I don't need someone else to tell me the price if it came down to it.  Sure it makes things more difficult but SR is not going to disappear if the exchanges do.

Coin dealers trade at premium prices that are sometimes way different than spot.  It is all based on how badly the buyer wants/needs it.  Direct P2P price discovery will always exist.

----------


## Crystallas

I'll likely die from boredom before GD can prove that he can make real money with the USD:Euro rates.  Those that can do, do. Those that can't, just BS all day LOL

You guys should have warned me that he was just a hater who jumps on a down day, and then complains on a high day. LOL  Soo smart, but still not capitalizing. Lip service should have a minimum wage to keep people like him from going hungry. /socialism

----------


## jclay2

> The internet is different. No one loses money on the internet. Also, everyone I meet on the internet has a IQ score of at least 140.


Check. The only people who are really believable are the ones who publically state it when the euphoria is still in full swing.

----------


## muh_roads

> http://www.amagimetals.com/silver.html


Cool.    Keep us updated when they deliver.

----------


## Crystallas

> Cool.    Keep us updated when they deliver.


coinabul sent me my order in 4 days. 

http://coinabul.com/

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> I don't quite understand how, if these prices are so lagged as Crystallas suggests, that so many people are coming on here saying they got out at $240/$250 when the price peaked at about $266???
> 
> So, the price didn't lag. Otherwise, how were two people in this thread alone able to cash out at those levels when the market quickly plummeted from those highs?? 
> 
> I don't quite understand....so the lag must be overblown. Again, Crystallas convincing himself of his false reality.


I didn't say I completely got out at $240. I said I sold enough to cover my original investment, then sold the rest (except for a small amount) when it broke $200. I don't use MtGox, so wasn't hurt by the lag. I used Coinbase which added the funds to my bank account the second I sold them. 

Again, you're reminding me why I stopped having this conversation about Bitcoin with you.

----------


## Crystallas

> I didn't say I completely got out at $240. I said I sold enough to cover my original investment, then sold the rest (except for a small amount) when it broke $200. I don't use MtGox, so wasn't hurt by the lag. I used Coinbase which added the funds to my bank account the second I sold them. 
> 
> Again, you're reminding me why I stopped having this conversation about Bitcoin with you.


This is exactly correct. I did the same thing twice. Once at 92, before BTC broke $100. That covered my original investment, and then some. Then at $148, before it dropped back down. That was very lucky. I sold some out of pure panic. But it dropped to $130, bought more, then sold ~2/3rd of what I had at 240 and change. I repurchased all, but double my investment, and what I paid for some silver bars at $67 today. Basically tripling my BTC in a week while diversifying, paying off anything I put into it, as well as having some extra FRN on the side. 

Those that jumped on the bandwagon during the Cyprus rush that are still very new, I hope they didn't get "BitCoin fever" and go crazy.

----------


## psi2941

Gaddafi Duck give it up this forum has become the bitcoin speculation form let them go bitcoin crazy.

----------


## muh_roads

> coinabul sent me my order in 4 days. 
> 
> http://coinabul.com/


Nice.  Yeah they were my first instinct to go with.  Haven't tried yet.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...fter-meltdown/
> 
> only one exchange, but it happens to be the largest and most popular. ironic that bitcoin was touted as an opt-out option to avoid a Cyprus-esque freeze out...now Bitcoin users are frozen out of the biggest market for transactions. so much for that idea..
> 
> i love the reasoning too. Bitcoin trading halted due to panic selling...as opposed to the panic buying over the past 4 months to which they did nothing about??? hahahah...like the people fearing irrational selling when a market sells off, but cheering irrational buying all the way up the mania ladder.
> 
> alternative bitcoin exchanges are selling at a deep discount to $90/coin vs. the $123 on the frozen Mt.Gox. 
> 
> so, now that we got the exchange dilemma outta the way (now you can sell your coins for a 25% discount in an identical exchange), does anyone know if or how long your trade takes to settle?? will the funds even be there if you access and trade thru these exchanges???


Seriously, what is the point of all this hate?  Why does bitcoin burn your insides so bad that you feel the need to start an online crusade against it by constantly mocking the ups and downs of a volatile market that is just testing the waters?  

It makes no sense to be so against this because it really has no effect on your life if you don't want to get involved.  If you decide not to get involved, then just don't get involved and leave those of us who are alone.  Here we see something that exemplifies the free market more than anything we have today and you are trashing on it for all you're worth... and for what?  No, really, tell me.

----------


## opal

interesting.. they're still closed but I went to this site

http://preev.com/

early this afternoon and the price was hovering around 60.. now it's 79.90

----------


## dannno

> Cool.    Keep us updated when they deliver.


Ya I obviously haven't received the order yet, but the shipping was really cheap so I'd say it is great for smaller orders.

----------


## dannno

> interesting.. they're still closed but I went to this site
> 
> http://preev.com/
> 
> early this afternoon and the price was hovering around 60.. now it's 79.90



Bitstamp is already at $89, it was down around $62 earlier.. I would have bought in the low 60s but it takes too much time to get money into those things which is why I think the downward pressure was so great, there was no source for upward pressure. Bitinstant is advertised on some of the other btc exchanges as a way to get bitcoins into your wallet, but they still direct you through mt.gox so it's a dead end.

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## PaulConventionWV

> You just don't get it, which proves my point all along 
> 
> I can't believe I bothered debating this with you as long as I did, considering you came back with THAT. Oh my...


You call that a comeback?

So the guy tells you why it's not plausible and all you can do is say, "...uhh, that's your answer?  Oh, HAHAHAHAH...HAHA.  You don't get it, you fool!  I'm right you're wrong! Nanner nanner boo boo!"

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## PaulConventionWV

> For those who doubt competing digital currency, WTF do you think all government run "money" is? It isn't printed anymore, it is created by a computer keystroke.


//

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## PaulConventionWV

> I'll pay $60 for anyone's BTC, PM me and I'll transfer the money


I second that!  $60 right now and I'm willing to buy a good amount.  Just PM me.  You might even be able to talk me up to $65 per coin!

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I second that!  $60 right now and I'm willing to buy a good amount.  Just PM me.  You might even be able to talk me up to $65 per coin!


great negotiation skills.

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## dannno

> great negotiation skills.


Well I'm guessing he hasn't gotten any PMs.

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## DGambler

> Well I'm guessing he hasn't gotten any PMs.


Nine here, I guess people that have them already must value them.

GD, I don't understand your negative crusade...it's like you have a vendetta....did Satoshi piss in your cornflakes?

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## ronpaulfollower999

Sold some Litecoins so I could put in a bid at $35. Come on flash crash!

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Nine here, I guess people that have them already must value them.
> 
> GD, I don't understand your negative crusade...it's like you have a vendetta....did Satoshi piss in your cornflakes?


i dont understand your positive crusade.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I'll likely die from boredom before GD can prove that he can make real money with the USD:Euro rates.  Those that can do, do. Those that can't, just BS all day LOL
> 
> You guys should have warned me that he was just a hater who jumps on a down day, and then complains on a high day. LOL  Soo smart, but still not capitalizing. Lip service should have a minimum wage to keep people like him from going hungry. /socialism


http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

hey, crystallas, forget about converting back and forth from arbitraging the $#@! outta the USD-bitcoin-euro divergence. it's complicated for you--i get it.checkout the link of the bitcoin exchanges. just buy the bitcoin for $77 USD and sell it on the $90 exchange. instant $13 profit. 

are you bored yet, or do you understand that if you buy something low, and then flip it at a higher price, you make a profit. k thx

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I don't need someone else to tell me the price if it came down to it.  Sure it makes things more difficult but SR is not going to disappear if the exchanges do.
> 
> Coin dealers trade at premium prices that are sometimes way different than spot.  It is all based on how badly the buyer wants/needs it.  Direct P2P price discovery will always exist.


whoa, you can figure out the price on your own?? holy $#@!, you should be a central planner. you'd be the most efficient ever! do tell me how you figure out what the price of gold, bitcoins, corn, or oil should be. after all, why rely on those n00b "paper" markets??

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## newbitech

man someone needs a time out while the adults get ready to deal with Mt. Gox getting turnt back on heh..

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## presence

> Sold some Litecoins so I could put in a bid at $35. Come on flash crash!



I'm not so sure its going down like that there is solid support at 60 its bounced like a ball form that level many times.  It been stable at 65 for several hours before finding new stability at mid 70's.  parabolic SAR pushing up still.


LTC/BTC has been rock stable at .02 all day.

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## presence

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btce...AccDistzvzpszl


41 MINUTES TO GOX!

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## muh_roads

> whoa, you can figure out the price on your own?? holy $#@!, you should be a central planner. you'd be the most efficient ever! do tell me how you figure out what the price of gold, bitcoins, corn, or oil should be. after all, why rely on those n00b "paper" markets??


I'm speaking in terms of the exchanges being banned one day.  Which doesn't really make sense as the US government doesn't have say over BTC.

Yes I can figure out the price on my own.  How?  Whatever it is that someone is willing to pay me for them.  Imagine that.

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## RickyJ

> I'm speaking in terms of the exchanges being banned one day.  Which doesn't really make sense as the US government doesn't have say over BTC.
> 
> Yes I can figure out the price on my own.  How?  Whatever it is that someone is willing to pay me for them.  Imagine that.


Right, my value that assign to a bitcoin is zero. I can see  potential to make something with the big price fluctuations  going on, but I will pass, I can also make money in the stock market just as easily.

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## muh_roads

> Right, my value that assign to a bitcoin is zero.


And you understand nothing about SR and other sites like them.

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## RickyJ

> And you understand nothing about SR and other sites like them.


?? No I am not a bitcoin guru and never will be. My value for bitcoin is zero right now. You can't get anything from me with a bitcoin.

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## muh_roads

> ?? No I am not a bitcoin guru and never will be. My value for bitcoin is zero right now. You can't get anything from me with a bitcoin.


Good thing there are 8 billion people on the planet. lol

As the saying goes, one mans junk is another mans treasure.

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## Bodhi

Why is the price changing on Mt.Gox, if they are closed at the moment?

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## RickyJ

> Good thing there are 8 billion people on the planet.


 I think it is 7 billion, but I am sure another billion will be here soon.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Why is the price changing on Mt.Gox, if they are closed at the moment?


Good question.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Well I'm guessing he hasn't gotten any PMs.


Have you, with your generous $40/BTC offer?

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## Tod

It will be interesting to see what happens....

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## jclay2

266 was the high so I will say the low in the next 48 hours will be sub 30 for a 90% decline.

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## juleswin

A few people are going to have egg on their faces depending on how bitcoin performs. Me? I will just sit on the sidelines and watch. This is fun drama

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## jclay2

> A few people are going to have egg on their faces depending on how bitcoin performs. Me? I will just sit on the sidelines and watch. This is fun drama


Same here. From a mass psychological perspective it is fascinating.

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## Bodhi

> Same here. From a mass psychological perspective it is fascinating.


Yeah.  I have not seen anything like this since Beanie Babies.  Mass speculation.

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## jclay2

> Yeah.  I have not seen anything like this since Beanie Babies.  Mass speculation.


Dude, that was my first bubble as a 7 year old. At the peak, my grandma got me a $ 150 beanie baby for my birthday. Screw you Radar the Black bat!

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Dude, that was my first bubble as a 7 year old. At the peak, my grandma got me a $ 150 beanie baby for my birthday. Screw you Radar the Black bat!


Were beanie babies really that expensive??!! I think I kind of remember. I owned a couple.

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## jclay2

> Were beanie babies really that expensive??!! I think I kind of remember. I owned a couple.


They went all the way to $5000 if you were unfortunate enough to buy royal the blue elephant.

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## Bodhi

> Were beanie babies really that expensive??!! I think I kind of remember. I owned a couple.


I had a couple full sets of the free ones you got with a happy meal (I was too old for happy meals at the time but my friend Managed a McDs), they were going for $100 or more at the peak for the set. I still have some in a closet somewhere.  Just in case that beanie baby mania takes off again, lol.

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## muh_roads

Comparing a beanie to something that lets you wire transfer out of your oppressive country is retarded.

Time to grow up haters.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Comparing a beanie to something that lets you wire transfer out of your oppressive country is retarded.
> 
> Time to grow up haters.


i can fedex my beanie babies out of the country

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## jclay2

> i can fedex my beanie babies out of the country


lol

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## muh_roads

I don't find sanctions very funny.  I'm glad you both do. How nice that your spoiled selves never lived in a $#@!ty country before.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> A few people are going to have egg on their faces depending on how bitcoin performs. Me? I will just sit on the sidelines and watch. This is fun drama


there wont be any egg on my face, even if bitcoin goes to a million as many think. 

just as theres really no egg on my face if i roll my eyes and shake my head at my buddy who puts $1,000 on double zeroes at a roulette table.  the fact it will come up once every 38 or so spins makes it a gambling proposition.

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## jclay2

> I don't find sanctions very funny.  I'm glad you both do. How nice that your spoiled selves never lived in a $#@!ty country before.


Dude calm down.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I don't find sanctions very funny.  I'm glad you both do. How nice that your spoiled selves never lived in a $#@!ty country before.


heh..well..i have lived in mexico and china...i've traveled throughout southeast Asia...from singapore to denpasar...been across canada and the USA...and im 23 years old. i've bought an entire meal for less than 1 USD, and purchased a baskin robbins strawberry shake south of the equator for 65,000 rupiah. 

and you've been on google maps using street view. a 21st century marco polo

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## muh_roads

> Dude calm down.


I really wonder whose side some people are on.  If we are all still on the same side, then there is still a lot of misconceptions here about why BTC has value to so many.

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## muh_roads

> heh..well..i have lived in mexico and china...i've traveled throughout southeast Asia...been across canada and the USA...
> 
> and you've been on google maps using street view. a 21st century marco polo


Then why are you being such a dick towards something that helps people out?

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## Bruno

You used to be able to buy a house in Amsterdam with a tulip.  

That said, I still wish I would have bought some bitcoins at $1 or so when I first heard of them, but am glad I didn't at $250.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Then why are you being such a dick towards something that helps people out?


snap back to reality, whoops there goes gravity

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## ChristianAnarchist

mtgox seems to be having more "technical difficulties".   Cannot load the page.

Of course it happened after I put in a buy order that I can not cancel now if I see a plunge (because I cannot see anything).

What other exchanges are working to see what their values are?

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## muh_roads

> snap back to reality, whoops there goes gravity


Go Keynesians!  Yay!  Keep cheering them on!  I love hating on things that add light at the end of the tunnel.

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## jclay2

> Go Keynesians!  Yay!  Keep cheering them on!  I love hating on things that add light at the end of the tunnel.


Most of the people who dislike bitcoin are long lots of physical pms and despise fiats.

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## oyarde

> Then why dislike FRN's?  It's all paper since you don't seem to care.


I do not own much paper at all , some stocks & bonds, about everything else in some sort of physical assets ,land, copper , silver etc.FRN's are backed by nothing .

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## oyarde

> The internet is different. No one loses money on the internet. Also, everyone I meet on the internet has a IQ score of at least 140.


I have lost money on about anything you could think of and made money on about the same, always a little nicer when the gains outnumber the losses

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## muh_roads

> Most of the people who dislike bitcoin are long lots of physical pms and despise fiats.


Sigh...so tired of people throwing around the word fiat...

But anyway, nobody is telling anyone not to diversify.  Instead of crawling into a hole I would rather fight the elite at their own game with something that can't be inflated to infinity while also being able to send instantly to anyone you want at any time.

Do people even understand how important digital is to a world economy?

Good luck sending your metals to someone else not near you without paying a lot for shipping, insurance & time.  When the real digital debt notes collapse, people will need something else...

BTC isn't competing with metals.  It will help you attain metals easier without some government nosing up your business.

People need to think of BTC as more of a payment processor that answers to no government.

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## Tod

What is going on with Bitcoin?  I tried visiting the Mt Gox site but got a message:  


> The server at mtgox.com is taking too long to respond.

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## RickyJ

> I do not own much paper at all , some stocks & bonds, about everything else in some sort of physical assets ,land, copper , silver etc.*FRN's are backed by nothing* .


They are not backed by a commodity, but they are backed by the US military. So to say FRN's are not backed by anything is not really true.

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## muh_roads

> They are not backed by a commodity, but they are backed by the US military. So to say FRN's are not backed by anything is not really true.


Yeah technically they are backed by oil via the military.  Petrodollar.

Unsustainable cycle.  It's like an infinite turd coming out of the ass that comes up to the mouth to self-nourish the body...

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## jclay2

> They are not backed by a commodity, but they are backed by the US military. So to say FRN's are not backed by anything is not really true.


Bitcoin needs to find a way to back itself with something like gold/silver/$'s/oil. Really anything. Maybe we could issue an etf and the shares that would utilize crypto currency technology?

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## muh_roads

> Bitcoin needs to find a way to back itself with something like gold/silver/$'s/oil. Really anything. Maybe we could issue an etf and the shares that would utilize crypto currency technology?


It already has value.  The value of secretly sending instantly without someone else stopping you.

The more people think about BTC like a payment processor instead of just a currency, the more it will make sense.  The open-source software has value to what the user wants to do with it.  BTC doubles as two different things.

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## Crystallas

> They are not backed by a commodity, but they are backed by the US military. So to say FRN's are not backed by anything is not really true.


Backed by coercion and force? Awesome, where do I sign up. /statism

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## Carehn

Bitcoin- a sound currency. LOL

----------


## newbitech



----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Just woke up and found my trade did not execute even though the price went below my asking price of 69!!  What's with that?  I put in my trade for $69 at MtGox at 22:00 on 04-11, but when it went to a low of $65 at 02:00 on 04-12, nothing happened.  I'm so getting out of MtGox when I get my coins...

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## Crystallas

> Just woke up and found my trade did not execute even though the price went below my asking price of 69!!  What's with that?  I put in my trade for $69 at MtGox at 22:00 on 04-11, but when it went to a low of $65 at 02:00 on 04-12, nothing happened.  I'm so getting out of MtGox when I get my coins...


Well, it's an exchange. I don't like Gox. But I think it's important to know what happened here so you don't get burned under the same impression later. 

You made an order for a trade. This means that someone has to sell x amount at the set price, for you to buy. Whether your buying bitcoins or usd. If other people were ahead of you, and placed a buy order at that price too, the order gets executed in queue(well, maybe not, Gox has been a little shady with this at times by giving verified users a bump). Let's just say that you were late in the queue to stay on topic. You made an order for 1 BTC(or the other way around, but I'm going to say BTC, just to keep this simple for me), there were 80 BTCs being sold at $69. The first 4 people snatched them all up. Then your order gets skipped until someone is selling the number to match your request, and you are in front of the line. Now, you say the price went to 65 and you were skipped? Thats because those orders were also ahead of you in the queue. That is one issue with the Gox lag that has occurred and it is complete bull$#@!. That is NOT how an exchange is supposed to operate. The highest bids are supposed to get the priority.

----------

