# Think Tank > History >  I guess Jimmy Carter is "anti-semitic" now

## devil21

I guess the same guy that negotiated the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, as well as winning Nobel Peace Prizes for his foreign policy work, is now "anti-semitic".  How much you wanna bet that AIPAC was involved in the board protest part?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080414/...carter_mideast




> JERUSALEM - Former President Jimmy Carter brokered the first Israeli-Arab peace deal, but he's getting a cool reception in Israel during his latest visit to the Mideast. 
> 
> Israeli leaders are shunning the globe-trotting peacemaker for planning to meet with Khaled Mashaal, the head of Israel's archenemy Hamas, and comparing the Jewish state's policies to apartheid.
> 
> A schedule released by the Atlanta-based Carter Center showed no plans for the former president to meet any of Israel's key players: Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni or Defense Minister Ehud Barak during this week's visit, which began Sunday.
> 
> The only high-ranking official on Carter's schedule was Israel's ceremonial head of state, President Shimon Peres. The 83-year-old former U.S. leader held a closed meeting with Peres shortly after arriving Sunday.
> 
> A senior Israeli official said "scheduling problems" was the official reason given for the high-profile snub — even though Olmert recently took time to chat with "Prison Break" star Wentworth Miller.
> ...


So Jimmy Carter is an anti-semite since he "hates" Israel.  Gimme a break     As a night owl, it amazes me how the real news is only published online at 4am.

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## Mopsus

Dick Cheney was quoted as saying: "Rah rah rah, Netanyahu stirs the sh*tpot, rah rah."


Lil' Bushisms aside, Israel fears real dialogue because they know that in the end serious and viable concessions must be made in the name of peace.

After people have been caged, denied medical care, shot at, homes flattened for Jewish settlements for 40+ years, they want a bone with some meat on it.

I applaud Carter. This Israeli attitude of "I wont talk to you so there!" mentality will not solve a thing. 

Netanyahu and his ilk in the Likud Party are as much a gaggle of terrorists as Hamas; they just have better tailors.

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## dirtyp

I read this earlier today, alot of Iran/Israel rhetoric going on.

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## rpfreedom08

you should look up what carter has said in the past about what was going on with the strength of the Jews in Washington even back when he was running.  Of course this makes him anti-semitic   It's amazing that in the eyes of Americans, it's worse to be called anti-Semitic than it is to be anti-American

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## sratiug

Notice they called Hamas a terrorist organization but neglected to mention they were the elected government, until Bush decided he didn't want democracy in the middle east.

Carter has also said that our elections fail every criteria for free and fair elections used by his election monitoring organization that operates around the world, unlike the Hamas elections, and those in Venezuela.  But they are not allowed to monitor elections here.  The recent defeat of Chavez in his elections proved Carter's point, although that of course was not mentioned in the news reporting.  When's the last time you saw a real dictator lose an election?

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## Truth Warrior

Carter, TPTB NWO sock puppet, is merely continuing to follow the script and his orders in the ongoing agenda implementation.<IMHO>

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## weslinder

Jimmy Carter cares nothing about Israelis, Palestinians, peace, or anything else.  He is a media whore who wants nothing more than to be remembered for something other than the failed fascist policies that he implemented as President, from price controls to secret courts.  He thinks he can win points in court of public perception by talking to Hamas, so he will.

If you think he really cares about this, look at what he did in the Venezuelan recall election.  He put his blessing on the results, and said it was fair, even though the Venezuelan government didn't allow anyone to check the algorithm of the voting machines, or even test them.

Jimmy Carter the President was a fascist.  Jimmy Carter the ex-President is a self-absorbed, and somewhat loony, media whore.  I have almost no respect for the man.

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## Benny45

> Notice they called Hamas a terrorist organization but neglected to mention they were the elected government, until Bush decided he didn't want democracy in the middle east.


Easy, they are not terrorists to Palestinians.  They are terrorists to the thousands of men, woman, and children (lots of children) they have KILLED.

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## 0zzy

> Jimmy Carter cares nothing about Israelis, Palestinians, peace, or anything else.  He is a media whore who wants nothing more than to be remembered for something other than the failed fascist policies that he implemented as President, from price controls to secret courts.  He thinks he can win points in court of public perception by talking to Hamas, so he will.
> 
> If you think he really cares about this, look at what he did in the Venezuelan recall election.  He put his blessing on the results, and said it was fair, even though the Venezuelan government didn't allow anyone to check the algorithm of the voting machines, or even test them.
> 
> Jimmy Carter the President was a fascist.  Jimmy Carter the ex-President is a self-absorbed, and somewhat loony, media whore.  I have almost no respect for the man.


You're a cynical man aren't ya?

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## scipio337

> Dick Cheney was quoted as saying: "Rah rah rah, Netanyahu stirs the sh*tpot, rah rah."
> 
> 
> Lil' Bushisms aside, Israel fears real dialogue because they know that in the end serious and viable concessions must be made in the name of peace.
> 
> After people have been caged, denied medical care, shot at, homes flattened for Jewish settlements for 40+ years, they want a bone with some meat on it.
> 
> I applaud Carter. This Israeli attitude of "I wont talk to you so there!" mentality will not solve a thing. 
> 
> Netanyahu and his ilk in the Likud Party are as much a gaggle of terrorists as Hamas; they just have better tailors.


Right.  They might have to make some "serious and viable concessions" like a total Gaza disengagement, which would be greeted with flowers and cheers for a more peaceful Middle East.

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## sratiug

> Easy, they are not terrorists to Palestinians.  They are terrorists to the thousands of men, woman, and children (lots of children) they have KILLED.


As we are terrorists to the hundreds of thousands we have killed and the millions of their friends and relatives.  What is your point?

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## weslinder

> You're a cynical man aren't ya?


Not generally.  Good Ol' Boy Jimmy brings out the worst in me.

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## devil21

> Not generally.  Good Ol' Boy Jimmy brings out the worst in me.


The policies of his presidency aside, the guy is 83 years old.  I doubt he's worried about winning points with anybody now.  It's just amazing to me that an ex president can be painted as anti-semitic in our own media.

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## CountryboyRonPaul

> The policies of his presidency aside, the guy is 83 years old.  I doubt he's worried about winning points with anybody now.  It's just amazing to me that an ex president can be painted as anti-semitic in our own media.


Nobody really knows what being anti-semetic means for sure anymore.

Sort of like the boy that cried wolf.

Anyone that has ever criticized the nation of Israel can be painted as racist against Jews. No matter if they have true racist beliefs or not.

Strange how hating Iraq is "patriotic", and therefore racism is ok against them.

The media plays favorites on race, and therefore are the most racist of all.

Their "Guilt Trip" policies are meant to influence people's views based on fear of being labeled a nasty word.

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## Sir VotesALot

An anti-semite is someone Jews hate I think we've all figured that out by now.

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## devil21

> Nobody really knows what being anti-semetic means for sure anymore.
> 
> Sort of like the boy that cried wolf.
> 
> Anyone that has ever criticized the nation of Israel can be painted as racist against Jews. No matter if they have true racist beliefs or not.
> 
> Strange how hating Iraq is "patriotic", and therefore racism is ok against them.
> 
> The media plays favorites on race, and therefore are the most racist of all.
> ...


Its sickening and saddening how the Holocaust has been turned into a catch phrase for jews.

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## CountryboyRonPaul

> An anti-semite is someone Jews hate I think we've all figured that out by now.


Unfortunately that would seem to be the best description I've heard so far. It's just a way to silence criticism, while avoiding actually having to confront an issue.

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## Truth Warrior

*Jimmy Carter Defends Meeting With Hamas*
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080413/D9010UQ00.html

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## klamath

> I guess the same guy that negotiated the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, as well as winning Nobel Peace Prizes for his foreign policy work, is now "anti-semitic".  How much you wanna bet that AIPAC was involved in the board protest part?
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080414/...carter_mideast
> 
> 
> 
> So Jimmy Carter is an anti-semite since he "hates" Israel.  Gimme a break     As a night owl, it amazes me how the real news is only 
> published online at 4am.


Though I admire him for standing up to a powerful lobby group I can't give him much credit for the Egypt/Israel peace deal.  He paid them off with American taxpayers money not to fight. We are still paying both sides.

I don't care who is right or wrong there, I just want us out of the entire Middle East!

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## Benny45

> As we are terrorists to the hundreds of thousands we have killed and the millions of their friends and relatives.  What is your point?


Maybe we are, whats your point?  

To the Israeli parents that had to bury their children who have been killed by hamas bombs and bullets, they most certainly are terrorists.

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## Mopsus

> Maybe we are, whats your point?  
> 
> To the Israeli parents that had to bury their children who have been killed by hamas bombs and bullets, they most certainly are terrorists.



Benny, good to have you back. How was that Zionist kibbutz? Good to see that the indoctrination was effective. 

Once you get your head out of Netanyahu's ass, let me know. Then, we'll have a reasonable discussion. Until then, live in your ivory "Isarel can do no wrong and is divinely entitled" tower and STFU.

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## Zippyjuan

Hammas is the democratically elected government in Palestine. If you wish to achieve a peace treaty in the area, you have to talk to them.

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## CountryboyRonPaul

> Maybe we are, whats your point?  
> 
> To the Israeli parents that had to bury their children who have been killed by hamas bombs and bullets, they most certainly are terrorists.


I don't care which race/nationality of people are terrorists. 

I want to KEEP MY MONEY, NOT SEND IT TO MIDDLE EASTERNERS!!!!

...That's _my_ point.... I don't care how justified Palestinians, or Israelis are in using taxpayer money to slaughter each other, it's still OUR MONEY. And, with the way the economy is going we need every penny we can hold on to.

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## Mopsus

> I don't care which race/nationality of people are terrorists. 
> 
> I want to KEEP MY MONEY, NOT SEND IT TO MIDDLE EASTERNERS!!!!
> 
> ...That's _my_ point.... I don't care how justified Palestinians, or Israelis are in using taxpayer money to slaughter each other, it's still OUR MONEY. And, with the way the economy is going we need every penny we can hold on to.


Well said Countryboy. The problem is that the Zionist lobby with their "you're anti semitic" blackmail, keeps our politicians licking the jack boot of the Israeli terrorists.

Keep our money here at home. Service our own people, not further the Zionist agenda that has drawn us into countless conflicts.

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## Benny45

> Benny, good to have you back. How was that Zionist kibbutz? Good to see that the indoctrination was effective. 
> 
> Once you get your head out of Netanyahu's ass, let me know. Then, we'll have a reasonable discussion. Until then, live in your ivory "Isarel can do no wrong and is divinely entitled" tower and STFU.


Its funny, the same people that scream that they are accused of being Anti-Semetic when the criticize Israel are the first to accuse people with pro-israel beliefs to be zionists.  

HYPOCRITE

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## Benny45

> Well said Countryboy. The problem is that the Zionist lobby with their "you're anti semitic" blackmail, keeps our politicians licking the jack boot of the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Keep our money here at home. Service our own people, not further the Zionist agenda that has drawn us into countless conflicts.


Lets not forget the millions being sent to the Palestinians, and the billions being sent to Egypt.  Strange that you left that part out.

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## Benny45

> Hammas is the democratically elected government in Palestine. If you wish to achieve a peace treaty in the area, you have to talk to them.



The Israeli government was fairly elected, yet Hamas' charter calls for their destruction.  I guess you dont care about that.

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## Zippyjuan

Talking to both sides is not taking sides on an issue. President Carter's goal is to try to achieve a peace treaty for the region. You cannot do that without talking to both sides.  I too have not said that I support one side or the other.
They are both guilty of doing and saying bad things to each other.  The fact is that they are geographical neighbors and need to be able to get along. Both would be better off if they can resolve their differences.

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## Mopsus

> Lets not forget the millions being sent to the Palestinians, and the billions being sent to Egypt.  Strange that you left that part out.


You're off of your meds right? Israel gets nada? 

Kindly break down the millions of dollars those dastardly Palestinians are using. Medicine to recoup from fascist Israeli aggression perhaps?

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## Benny45

> You're off of your meds right? Israel gets nada? 
> 
> Kindly break down the millions of dollars those dastardly Palestinians are using. Medicine to recoup from fascist Israeli aggression perhaps?



Where did I say Israel gets "nada", you must be off your meds.  Did you imagine this?  

You sure the tens of millions the Pals are getting are going to medicine?  Do you realize how much money of foreign aide lined the pockets of the likes of Arafat? 

Please break down where the $3 billion US dollars that went to Egypt last years was spent on.  I will wait (or are you going to attempt to blame this on the "jewish lobby" also?).

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## Benny45

> Talking to both sides is not taking sides on an issue. President Carter's goal is to try to achieve a peace treaty for the region. You cannot do that without talking to both sides.  I too have not said that I support one side or the other.
> They are both guilty of doing and saying bad things to each other.  The fact is that they are geographical neighbors and need to be able to get along. Both would be better off if they can resolve their differences.


You may be right, but I cant think of one other country in the world that talks and negotiates with another country on its border that is sworn to its destruction.

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## Zippyjuan

How many others are there with a common border? North and South Korea meet periodically. Dialog is important to minimize military actions.

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## Benny45

> How many others are there with a common border? North and South Korea meet periodically. Dialog is important to minimize military actions.


North Korea doesn't have spiritual leaders residing in foreign countries (Syria) that constantly call for the destruction of the South, while planning and funding attacks that have killed thousands of children (using money given to it by Iran).


Havn't seen North Korea bombing restaurants and malls in South Korea

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## CountryboyRonPaul

I think the issue at hand in this thread is trying to explain what proof there is that Jimmy Carter hates Jewish people.

Criticism of Israel or AIPAC does not count.

I've said it once I'll say it again, we shouldn't be funding either side, it's not our war, and I don't care who wins.

Edit: And in that respect I don't really respect Jimmy Carter for trying to broker peace with my money. But, regardless of respect or not, Israel wants to shut him up when he criticizes them, and I think it's fairly obvious all their doing is political blackmail.

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## devil21

> North Korea doesn't have spiritual leaders residing in foreign countries (Syria) that constantly call for the destruction of the South, while planning and funding attacks that have killed thousands of children (using money given to it by Iran).


You could replace Syria and Iran with United States and it would apply perfectly to Israel too.  Funny how that works.  Shows that neither side without blame in the conflict.

"North Korea doesn't have spiritual leaders residing in foreign countries (United States) that constantly call for the destruction of the South, while planning and funding attacks that have killed thousands of children (using money given to it by the United States)."

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## Benny45

> I think the issue at hand in this thread is trying to explain what proof there is that Jimmy Carter hates Jewish people.
> 
> Criticism of Israel or AIPAC does not count.
> 
> I've said it once I'll say it again, we shouldn't be funding either side, it's not our war, and I don't care who wins.
> 
> Edit: And in that respect I don't really respect Jimmy Carter for trying to broker peace with my money. But, regardless of respect or not, Israel wants to shut him up when he criticizes them, and I think it's fairly obvious all their doing is political blackmail.



I dont think Carter hates jewish people,  however you might understand why Israel might have an issue with him hugging and kissing a man that sends suicide bombers into their country to kill them.  

I am not a fan of Carter, and it has nothing to do with Israel, but everything to do with how he ran our country into the ground in the 70s and was one of the worst 3 presidents we have ever had.

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## CountryboyRonPaul

> I dont think Carter hates jewish people,  however you might understand why Israel might have an issue with him hugging and kissing a man that sends suicide bombers into their country to kill them.  
> 
> I am not a fan of Carter, and it has nothing to do with Israel, but everything to do with how he ran our country into the ground in the 70s and was one of the worst 3 presidents we have ever had.




I think I could find a picture of every pres in the past 20 years hugging and kissing multiple Islamic leaders.

Paris Hilton's got nothing on them...

Edit: Oh this one's even better 


Apparently men over their greet each other with kisses... So if they don't like Carter greeting both sides of an issue, it sounds like they just don't want to make concessions, which basically sounds like they don't want peace.

Oh well, let em fight, just NOT WITH MY MONEY!!!

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## Benny45

> I think I could find a picture of every pres in the past 20 years hugging and kissing multiple Islamic leaders.
> 
> Paris Hilton's got nothing on them...
> 
> Edit: Oh this one's even better


Two wrongs............

Carter and Bush....2/3rds of my worst 3 presidents list.

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## CountryboyRonPaul

> Two wrongs............
> 
> Carter and Bush....2/3rds of my worst 3 presidents list.


Fair enough lol

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## Mopsus

> Where did I say Israel gets "nada", you must be off your meds.  Did you imagine this?  
> 
> You sure the tens of millions the Pals are getting are going to medicine?  Do you realize how much money of foreign aide lined the pockets of the likes of Arafat? 
> 
> Please break down where the $3 billion US dollars that went to Egypt last years was spent on.  I will wait (or are you going to attempt to blame this on the "jewish lobby" also?).



Paging Jonathan Pollard .......Jonathan Pollard! Israel couldn't care less for the US. Their money is spent to only sustain their agenda; and everyone else be damned. Call me a lair!

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## sratiug

> Its funny, the same people that scream that they are accused of being Anti-Semetic when the criticize Israel are the first to accuse people with pro-israel beliefs to be zionists.  
> 
> HYPOCRITE


How is being pro Israel not being zionist?

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## sratiug

> North Korea doesn't have spiritual leaders residing in foreign countries (Syria) that constantly call for the destruction of the South, while planning and funding attacks that have killed thousands of children (using money given to it by Iran).
> 
> 
> Havn't seen North Korea bombing restaurants and malls in South Korea


I think they have kidnapped quite a few.  Maybe thousands.  From South Korea and Japan.

The South Koreans didn't come from other continents to steal the land of Korea.

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## Benny45

> I think they have kidnapped quite a few.  Maybe thousands.  From South Korea and Japan.
> 
> The South Koreans didn't come from other continents to steal the land of Korea.


another forum member that knows nothing about history. Go open a textbook and you will find Jews didn't magically appear in Israel in the few years leading up to the war in 1948.

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## Benny45

> How is being pro Israel not being zionist?


Ron Paul has said time again that he would be a friend of Israel as president. I guess he is a Zionist too.

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## Benny45

> Paging Jonathan Pollard .......Jonathan Pollard! Israel couldn't care less for the US. Their money is spent to only sustain their agenda; and everyone else be damned. Call me a lair!


ok, you are a liar.  I go to Israel all the time. The US is very highly regarded there.   I have also been to Egypt. The US is hated there. Lot of good that $3 billion we gave Egypt is doing for us. Have you ever been to the region?

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## Mopsus

Having a valid opinion is not a falsehood there Ben. 

Israel's high regard is due to the fact that that their very existence is blindly paid and guaranteed by US tax dollars and US blood. Both of which are fueled by Israeli special interest groups in the US. 

Again Benny, I shall ask you, what has Israel done for the US? 

Ask a crewmember of the USS Liberty for clarity on the subject before us.

By the way Benny, my family has been from the region since 600 A.D. I've been to and lived in Jordan, visited the West Bank and Israel since I was five. My dad used to Boy Scout in Jerusalem before Israel turned into a Fascist state. So yes, I've been to the region.

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## Benny45

> Having a valid opinion is not a falsehood there Ben. 
> 
> Israel's high regard is due to the fact that that their very existence is blindly paid and guaranteed by US tax dollars and US blood. Both of which are fueled by Israeli special interest groups in the US. 
> 
> Again Benny, I shall ask you, what has Israel done for the US? 
> 
> Ask a crewmember of the USS Liberty for clarity on the subject before us.
> 
> By the way Benny, my family has been from the region since 600 A.D. I've been to and lived in Jordan, visited the West Bank and Israel since I was five. My dad used to Boy Scout in Jerusalem before Israel turned into a Fascist state. So yes, I've been to the region.



1. When you opinion conflicts with facts, the it is a falsehood

2.  Why are you only asking what Israel has done for the US, why aren't you asking the same questions about the other countries we send billions to? (ending all aide is fine with me)

3. The USS liberty was a mistake.  In Afghanistan, The US mistakenly killed Canadian soldiers in a friendly fire accident.  Does this mean the US hates Canada?

4. If you think Israelis dislike the US, then yes I question if you have ever been there.  Egyptians do not hold us in high regard even though they receive billions.  So, there goes that argument.

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## Mopsus

> 1. When you opinion conflicts with facts, the it is a falsehood
> 
> 2.  Why are you only asking what Israel has done for the US, why aren't you asking the same questions about the other countries we send billions to? (ending all aide is fine with me)
> 
> 3. The USS liberty was a mistake.  In Afghanistan, The US mistakenly killed Canadian soldiers in a friendly fire accident.  Does this mean the US hates Canada?
> 
> 4. If you think Israelis dislike the US, then yes I question if you have ever been there.  Egyptians do not hold us in high regard even though they receive billions.  So, there goes that argument.



I'm going to give you a second to get your head out of the Zionist Grape Koolaid. Are you ready? Here we go.

1. An opinion is not a statement of fact. When one claims an opinion to be a fact and erroneous, then it is a falsehood. See eg: uhmmmm Hiillary and the snipers;

2. Screw everyone alse, I'm talking about our "key ally" in the region. Seriously, what has Israel done to justify our blood and treasure?

3. Yeah a mistake that a marked US Navy vessel was strafed by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats for hours on end despite the inconvient fact that she was flying a U.S Flag and radioed multiple time that she was a US naval vessel????.....Sure.....Benny, keep on drinking that Manaschevitz Kool Aid.

4. No, I don't doubt the Jews in Israel love the U.S. Who doesn't like a free ride and free protection? Who doesn't like the "heat" taken off of them? Israel has not helped the US in any regard whatsoever---well except to further their own agenda that is.

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## Benny45

> I'm going to give you a second to get your head out of the Zionist Grape Koolaid. Are you ready? Here we go.
> 
> 1. An opinion is not a statement of fact. When one claims an opinion to be a fact and erroneous, then it is a falsehood. See eg: uhmmmm Hiillary and the snipers;
> 
> 2. Screw everyone alse, I'm talking about our "key ally" in the region. Seriously, what has Israel done to justify our blood and treasure?
> 
> 3. Yeah a mistake that a marked US Navy vessel was strafed by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats for hours on end despite the inconvient fact that she was flying a U.S Flag and radioed multiple time that she was a US naval vessel????.....Sure.....Benny, keep on drinking that Manaschevitz Kool Aid.
> 
> 4. No, I don't doubt the Jews in Israel love the U.S. Who doesn't like a free ride and free protection? Who doesn't like the "heat" taken off of them? Israel has not helped the US in any regard whatsoever---well except to further their own agenda that is.


Yep, Weak minded fools like you get wrap yourself around the idea that not everybody shares your opinions, and in the case of the USS Liberty, wild conspiracy theories.  It makes perfect sense for Israel to attack its closest ally in the world.

You should ask yourself, why you dont care that the US is giving billions of dollars to countries that openly hate it.  You dont ask those questions because it iterferes with your "blame the Israelis" for everything way of thinking.  Kind of hypocritical of you, but I'm sure you dont care.

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## Mopsus

> Yep, Weak minded fools like you get wrap yourself around the idea that not everybody shares your opinions, and in the case of the USS Liberty, wild conspiracy theories.  It makes perfect sense for Israel to attack its closest ally in the world.
> 
> You should ask yourself, why you dont care that the US is giving billions of dollars to countries that openly hate it.  You dont ask those questions because it iterferes with your "blame the Israelis" for everything way of thinking.  Kind of hypocritical of you, but I'm sure you dont care.


Sir, I'm not weak minded because I'm not a sycophant to the jack boot Israeli state. Thank you if you will. 

I'm a lover of freedom and liberty and helping one's neighbor.....things that the Zionist government of Israel abhors.

Israel has been a thorn in many a nation’s side because they only care for their well being. Frankly sir, I'm tired of it.  

It may not be PC, but if Israel sees fit to spy upon, shoot and kill the military of her "allies," perhaps it's time that she tread this dangerous road on her own.

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## Zolah

> Yep, Weak minded fools like you get wrap yourself around the idea that not everybody shares your opinions, and in the case of the USS Liberty, wild conspiracy theories.  It makes perfect sense for Israel to attack its closest ally in the world.
> 
> You should ask yourself, why you dont care that the US is giving billions of dollars to countries that openly hate it.  You dont ask those questions because it iterferes with your "blame the Israelis" for everything way of thinking.  Kind of hypocritical of you, but I'm sure you dont care.


I see your recent vacation from the forum hasn't altered your posting habits.

Last time you were posting I asked if you could weigh the argument of both viewpoints in your posts to result in a fair opinion at the end, but you're ignoring any criticism of Israel, deflecting towards Egypt and lowering to ad hominem.





> I dont think Carter hates jewish people, however you might understand why Israel might have an issue with him hugging and kissing a man that sends suicide bombers into their country to kill them.
> 
> I am not a fan of Carter, and it has nothing to do with Israel, but everything to do with how he ran our country into the ground in the 70s and was one of the worst 3 presidents we have ever had.


I don't believe he is anti-semitic either, can understand why the Israeli government is having a go at him though, but once or twice before he arrived in the region was probably enough, the amount of times I've read about condemnation of Carter this week doesn't shine a great light on Israel. And I agree with your 2nd paragraph, he wasn't a great president, indeed one of the worst.




> Ron Paul has said time again that he would be a friend of Israel as president. I guess he is a Zionist too.


Silly post  He said he will talk and trade with *every* political leader regardless of past trade sanctions or past opinions, which is obviously a healthy position.




> 2. Why are you only asking what Israel has done for the US, why aren't you asking the same questions about the other countries we send billions to? (ending all aide is fine with me)


Ending all foreign aid would be great, USA already has more debt than any other country in the world, it makes absolutely no sense that they are also one of the most "generous" when it comes to foreign aid.




> 3. The USS liberty was a mistake. In Afghanistan, The US mistakenly killed Canadian soldiers in a friendly fire accident. Does this mean the US hates Canada?
> 
> 4. If you think Israelis dislike the US, then yes I question if you have ever been there. Egyptians do not hold us in high regard even though they receive billions. So, there goes that argument.


I doubt any of us was there that day the USS Liberty was mangled, so arguing over opinion about it is a bit futile, it's best to just be open-minded about it.

@4. I don't think he meant the general public in Israel, I think it seems like a fair opinion to say that the Israeli government doesn't care much about the American general public - why should they - the problem is the foreign aid.

~To the point, I think the basic principle of what Carter is doing in Jordan or Syria, I forget which, is quite good, I can relate to the Troubles in Northern Ireland, which proved that ignoring the IRA because of one of its extreme branches did nothing but cause more violence. To this argument I've read many people say Hamas can't be compared to the IRA because Arabs are unable to live peacefully in any conditions, useless racism. Hamas was democratically elected so its leader shouldn't be ignored, in my opinion.

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## Benny45

"my administration would treat Israel as a friend and trading partner. Americans would be encouraged to travel to and trade with Israel"  -RP

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## Mopsus

> "my administration would treat Israel as a friend and trading partner. Americans would be encouraged to travel to and trade with Israel"  -RP


Where's the part that says that the US will fund Mossad and the IDF and kill any Palestinian dissent?

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## Benny45

> I see your recent vacation from the forum hasn't altered your posting habits.


Yet nothing about anybody here calling me a zionist, an apologist, and a Manaschevitz drinker (the worst lie of them all).

You really wonder why Israelis dont like Carter?  Could it be him hugging and kissing people that send suicide bombers into their country to kill their children?  Nah.

----------


## Benny45

> Where's the part that says that the US will fund Mossad and the IDF and kill any Palestinian dissent?



um, Huh?  I quoted Ron Paul.  Please show me a quote from him that backs up another one of your tin foil hat conspiracy theories.

----------


## Mopsus

> um, Huh?  This is a quoted from RP.  Please show me a quote from him that backs up another one of your tin foil hat conspiracy theories.


Kindly list my "made up" tin foil conspiracies, and I'll be more than happy to address them for you.

----------


## Benny45

> I'm a lover of freedom and liberty and helping one's neighbor.....things that the Zionist government of Israel abhors.
> 
> Israel has been a thorn in many a nations side because they only care for their well being. Frankly sir, I'm tired of it.


Yep, Our $3billion to Egypt (that you are strangely silent about) has bought us alot.  Does Egypt care about the US......no.  Using your example, why aren't you outraged, or "tired of it"?

----------


## Benny45

> Kindly list my "made up" tin foil conspiracies, and I'll be more than happy to address them for you.


or how about just answering the question.  Where is the RP quote to back it up?  If not, where is the relevance in a reply to my RP quote?

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

Too bad Jimmy is not a libertarian. But I like how he's causing the neocons pain. heh

----------


## Mopsus

Ummm, How about a non-interventionist foreign policy? I agree. No money to no one when we, as Americans, are broke. Screw Israel and all other nations until we get our own house in order. Why does Israel deserve preferential treatment?

----------


## Benny45

> Ummm, How about a non-interventionist foreign policy? I agree. No money to no one when we, as Americans, are broke. Screw Israel and all other nations until we get our own house in order. Why does Israel deserve preferential treatment?


Then we agree.  No aid to Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, The Palestinians, etc......

Still kind of strange that you seem to really only care about the aid Israel gets.

----------


## Benny45

> Too bad Jimmy is not a libertarian. But I like how he's causing the neocons pain. heh


If you are a Libertarian, why would you want to be associated with one of the most incompetent presidents ever?  Is it just because you hate neocons?

----------


## Mopsus

> Then we agree.  No aid to Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, The Palestinians, etc......
> 
> Still kind of strange that you seem to really only care about the aid Israel gets.


Absolutely, take care of home first. Sadly, the Jew lobby in DC will make that dream unachievable! AIPAC will see to that.

----------


## Benny45

> Absolutely, take care of home first. Sadly, the Jew lobby in DC will make that dream unachievable! AIPAC will see to that.


"The jew lobby"......sigh.  I'm sure RP is thrilled to have you as a supporter.

----------


## Zolah

> Yet nothing about anybody here calling me a zionist, an apologist, and a Manaschevitz drinker (the worst lie of them all).
> 
> You really wonder why Israelis dont like Carter?  Could it be him hugging and kissing people that send suicide bombers into their country to kill their children?  Nah.


I implore you to consider what I said about considering both viewpoints in every post. To the point, yes you shouldn't be called a zionist if you say you aren't one, which you don't have to prove, etc. There is a difference between zionists, Jews and Israelis.




> Then we agree. No aid to Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, The Palestinians, etc......
> 
> Still kind of strange that you seem to really only care about the aid Israel gets.


Well the thread is about Israel, and we've both already established that all foreign aid should be ended.

----------


## Benny45

> Well the thread is about Israel, and we've both already established that all foreign aid should be ended.



Ok, point me to the threads about people complaining about specific aid to the Palestinians, or to the Egyptians.  I will meet you there.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

Benny I think Israel deserves to be wiped off the map ASAP and I know you agree. I support Ahmadenijad 100% and I'm hoping he'll organize another holocaust conference so the world can see how badly the revisionists destroy the hoax.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> Benny I think Israel deserves to be wiped off the map ASAP and I know you agree. I support Ahmadenijad 100% and I'm hoping he'll organize another holocaust conference so the world can see how badly the revisionists destroy the hoax.


Ahmadenijad is a Piece of Crap, just because you and him don't like Israel is no reason to support him 100%. But, whatever that's your call to make....

I don't like Israel at all, but I don't like Iran either, should either of them be wiped off the map?

Hell I don't care. As long as they don't get involved in *our* business I'm willing to be trading partners with both.

Benny- I think that statement I just made is why people hate Israel more than say, Egypt. Israel *IS* involved in our business to the point of being the most influential lobby on the hill, foreign or domestic. 

In fact, if you do some research, Isreal actually lobbies the US to send military aid to Egypt... It boggles the mind...

Threat To Cut U.S. Aid Opens Rift With Egypt
http://www.forward.com/articles/12443/

But I agree with you, the US should cut off *all* foreign entitlements. Be it to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Russia, Germany, even Canada can do without our annual gift bag of cash. 



The Saudi Lobby asks for billions each year too, and for military bases on their soil. The leaders of the country like this, however religious fundamentalists like Bin Laden that are not in positions of power HATE this.

So, the case could be made that the Saudi lobby is responsible for 9/11.

----------


## Benny45

> Benny I think Israel deserves to be wiped off the map ASAP and I know you agree. I support Ahmadenijad 100% and I'm hoping he'll organize another holocaust conference so the world can see how badly the revisionists destroy the hoax.


Another person I'm sure Ron Paul would be glad to have as a supporter. 


Sir Votes, do you know who came up with the toll of 6 million jews killed?  I bet you think it was a jew, or a zionist.  



Nope, it was your good buddy Adolph Eichmann

----------


## Benny45

> Ahmadenijad is a Piece of Crap, just because you and him don't like Israel is no reason to support him 100%. But, whatever that's your call to make....
> 
> I don't like Israel at all, but I don't like Iran either, should either of them be wiped off the map?
> 
> Hell I don't care. As long as they don't get involved in *our* business I'm willing to be trading partners with both.
> 
> Benny- I think that statement I just made is why people hate Israel more than say, Egypt. Israel *IS* involved in our business to the point of being the most influential lobby on the hill, foreign or domestic. 
> 
> In fact, if you do some research, Isreal actually lobbies the US to send military aid to Egypt... It boggles the mind...
> ...



I can make the case that Bin Laden is responsible for 9/11.

I have no disagreement with the rest of your post.  The Jewish lobby is strong.

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

> If you are a Libertarian, why would you want to be associated with one of the most incompetent presidents ever?  Is it just because you hate neocons?


I don't mind him meeting with people around the globe. What's the big deal?

----------


## Benny45

> I don't mind him meeting with people around the globe. What's the big deal?


How would you feel if he was hugging and kissing the man they sent a person to kill your children?

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

> How would you feel if he was hugging and kissing the man they sent a person to kill your children?


I don't have children lol

----------


## The One

I don't know if he's anti-Semetic, but he's definitely a douche-bag.

----------


## Zolah

> How would you feel if he was hugging and kissing the man they sent a person to kill your children?


It's just a formality when people meet, and it's futile to argue, it's also deflecting the issue.

----------


## Benny45

> It's just a formality when people meet, and it's futile to argue, it's also deflecting the issue.


Maybe to you, but you can understand why ISraelis wouldnt like it, right?

----------


## Zolah

> Maybe to you, but you can understand why ISraelis wouldnt like it, right?


Yes I can but the other side of that particular issue is other American officials meeting with Israeli officials that have been involved with military operations in Gaza, which is why I said it's futile.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> I don't know if he's anti-Semetic, but he's definitely a douche-bag.


That "Douche-Bag" has cost the U.S. TAX PAYERS, on Average, $4 BILLION a year since 1978! $2.5 BILLION for Israel and $1.5 BILLION for Egypt in PEACE MONIES.

*That's $120 BILLION  of the U.S. Americans Taxes* to fund the past 30 years of 'Payola' to Israel and Egypt.

This is the crap that has destroyed the US'; Middle class, OUR standard of Living, and assists in created an Imperial  Big Government!

----------


## Sir VotesALot

> Sir Votes, do you know who came up with the toll of 6 million jews killed?  I bet you think it was a jew, or a zionist.  
> 
> Nope, it was your good buddy Adolph Eichmann


Eichmann was still in diapers when the 'six million' figure was first propagated--during the first World War. It failed then but finally succeeded after the second, as Don Heddesheimer's book clearly shows. I recommend buying it from Amazon it's only ten dollars.

http://www.amazon.com/First-Holocaus...8373838&sr=8-1

*Six million Jews in Poland and Russia threatened with imminent holocaust: this allegation was appearing in such sources as "The New York Times" -- but the year was 1919! Don Heddesheimer's compact but substantive "First Holocaust" documents post-WWI propaganda that claimed East European Jewry was on the brink of annihilation, regularly invoking the talismanic six million figure. It gives details how that propaganda was used to agitate for minority rights for Jews in Poland, and for Zionism and Bolshevism in Poland and Russia; and demonstrates how Jewish fundraising operations in America raised vast sums in the name of feeding Polish and Russian Jews, then funneled much of the money to Zionist and Communist "constructive undertakings" -- including banks, unions, and kibbutzes -- rather than to starving Jews...*

----------


## Mopsus

> Maybe to you, but you can understand why ISraelis wouldnt like it, right?


Would you be so good as to say that the Jewish state has no blood on its hands? Kindly recite  the story of the Irgun and the King David Hotel bombing? Terrorism is a model, and Israel has one hell of a template.

----------


## Alex Libman

If I wasn't ethnically Jewish and didn't have first-hand experience with my own relatives, then I simply wouldn't for a moment believe that some Jews can be so racist, manipulative, and dishonest... but sadly they are.

----------


## devil21

Benny45 keeps mentioning Israeli kids being killed but why are all the news reports showing its the Palestinians being killed?  I dont really think a guy with a bomb vest can compare to a rocket launching attack helicopter.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/...l_palestinians




> In the day's deadliest attack, an Israeli helicopter fired four missiles at targets near the Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza, witnesses said. At least 12 Palestinians, including five children aged 12-15, were killed, said Dr. Moaiya Hassanain of the Palestinian Health Ministry.
> 
> Reuters cameraman Fadel Shana was killed while filming Israeli tank movements, apparently in an airstrike in the same area. Two bystanders also died.

----------


## Benny45

> Benny45 keeps mentioning Israeli kids being killed but why are all the news reports showing its the Palestinians being killed?  I dont really think a guy with a bomb vest can compare to a rocket launching attack helicopter.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/...l_palestinians


Do I really need to start posting links to the stories of Israeli kids being killed?

Wasnt it just a few weeks ago that abunch of jewish teenagers were shot to death leaving school in Jerusalem?

----------


## Benny45

> Would you be so good as to say that the Jewish state has no blood on its hands? Kindly recite  the story of the Irgun and the King David Hotel bombing? Terrorism is a model, and Israel has one hell of a template.


Name me one country without any blood on their hands.

----------


## Benny45

> If I wasn't ethnically Jewish and didn't have first-hand experience with my own relatives, then I simply wouldn't for a moment believe that some Jews can be so racist, manipulative, and dishonest... but sadly they are.


Wait, so you are telling me that there are racist jews?  Wow, what a scoop.  I guess the jews have a monopoly on racism.  You sir are a genius.

----------


## Benny45

> Eichmann was still in diapers when the 'six million' figure was first propagated--during the first World War. It failed then but finally succeeded after the second, as Don Heddesheimer's book clearly shows. .[/I][/b]



Yep, Im going to take the word of some author, over the guy who orchestrated the whole holocaust. Its just amazing when hatred makes you blind to the truth.

----------


## Zolah

And I raise my point again about all people involved in discussion talking about both sides of the story, in relevance to fairness, otherwise it becomes a tug-of-war of pointlessness.

Listen to a quick fact, Palestinian militants having killed Israeli civilians have committed war crimes, Israeli governments progress of settlements on occupied territory is a war crime, both sides have committed war crimes and it doesn't seem likely that the political leaders will be punished for them, unlike in the current news the talks of people involved in the Yugoslavian conflict being tried for war crimes.

Alright so no one can deny that both sides have committed war crimes, every day seems to bring more death, which is saddening and grieved, but blaming each side gets no one nowhere.

----------


## Alex Libman

> Wait, so you are telling me that there are racist jews?  Wow, what a scoop.  I guess the jews have a monopoly on racism.  You sir are a genius.


Not a monopoly, of course, but I don't know of any other group that comes anywhere close to their ethnocentrism.  The Japanese are a distant second, but they never made up such a powerful "fifth column" inside another country...

----------


## Zolah

> Benny I think Israel deserves to be wiped off the map ASAP and I know you agree. I support Ahmadenijad 100% and I'm hoping he'll organize another holocaust conference so the world can see how badly the revisionists destroy the hoax.


At first glance I thought you were being sarcastic, maybe I was wrong.

First sentence doesn't make any sense to be honest. Second sentence seems to allude to the alledged statement by Ahmadinejad about "wiping Israel off the map", when no such idiom exists in the Persian language, many translations have stated what he actually said as "the Zionist regime needs to be eliminated" which does not require violence, and is not an anti-semitic remark, I support him on this statement. And you've twisted the holocaust conference to a meaning of something different to suit your apparently racist means. Intolerance is intolerable, racism is unwelcome, realise that Zionists are a small minority of a people.

----------


## Benny45

> unlike in the current news the talks of people involved in the Yugoslavian conflict being tried for war crimes.
> 
> Alright so no one can deny that both sides have committed war crimes, every day seems to bring more death, which is saddening and grieved, but blaming each side gets no one nowhere.


I guess the Russian government should be tried for their vast crimes in Chechyna.
I guess the Chinese government should be tried for their vast crimes in Tibet
I guess the North Korean government should be tried for its crimes against its own population
You can probably add most of the governments in Africa to the list.

etc, etc, etc...............................

----------


## Benny45

> At first glance I thought you were being sarcastic, maybe I was wrong.
> 
> First sentence doesn't make any sense to be honest. Second sentence seems to allude to the alledged statement by Ahmadinejad about "wiping Israel off the map", when no such idiom exists in the Persian language, many translations have stated what he actually said as "the Zionist regime needs to be eliminated" which does not require violence, and is not an anti-semitic remark, I support him on this statement. And you've twisted the holocaust conference to a meaning of something different to suit your apparently racist means. Intolerance is intolerable, racism is unwelcome, realise that Zionists are a small minority of a people.


You actually believe Ahmadinejad didnt mean he wants to see Israel wiped off the map?  My goodness.

Did you read what this madman said today?  He doubts the 3000 deaths in NY on 911 because the names of the victims have never been made public.  I guess the fact that they are read aloud on the anniversary each year has gone unnoticed to this wacko.

----------


## Mopsus

> Name me one country without any blood on their hands.


Israel sure as heck isn't one of them. You want to get back that Israeli terrorism issue now? Please be so good as to tell me the difference between the Irgun which has placed 95% of the Israeli PMs and Hamas?

----------


## Benny45

> Not a monopoly, of course, but I don't know of any other group that comes anywhere close to their ethnocentrism.  The Japanese are a distant second, but they never made up such a powerful "fifth column" inside another country...


You have got to be kidding me.  Have you ever been to a muslim country?

----------


## Benny45

> Israel sure as heck isn't one of them.


What country is?  Please name one.

Why dont you ask a native american how they feel about the history of our country.

----------


## Mopsus

> What country is?  Please name one.
> 
> Why dont you ask a native american how they feel about the history of our country.


Sounds like a Palestinian conundrum eh? A superior power shoves you off of your land and kills you when you object huh?

----------


## Benny45

> Sounds like a Palestinian conundrum eh? A superior power shoves you off of your land and kills you when you object huh?


Ofcourse it was never just the Palestinians land in the fist place.  Lets not let the facts get in the way

----------


## Alex Libman

> You have got to be kidding me.  Have you ever been to a muslim country?


No, and some time ago I would have also said "and I never will" but Dubai and Malaysia have come a long way since then.  And with some exception of royal Arab chauvinism, Islamic countries aren't very ethnocentric, just religion-centric.

The bottom line is this: Neanderthals probably fought over that strategically-important passage between three continents, and countless peoples since.  Jews were once in majority on that land, as documented in the Bible, but for a relatively brief period time.  There was a small Jewish minority in Palestine throughout much post-Roman history, but most Jews chose to be in the greener pastures to the West and North.  (And in some cases South - at some point there were about as many Jews in South Africa as in Palestine!)  The chunk of land pointlessly designated by Romans (and later Byzantines, various Arab tribes, the Ottoman Turks, and finally the British) as "Palestine" was overwhelmingly Muslim, with various Christian and Jewish sects a mere minority.  The majority of land in question was privately owned by Muslims who obviously opposed the creation of the state of Israel (in spite of the fact that land ownership wasn't very formal back then).  Before the Zionist conquest, Jews were in a situation very similar, for example, to the Native Americans.

How would you feel if the United Nations voted to give away your land to whatever tribe lived there a few hundred, nevermind a few thousand years ago?

----------


## Benny45

> There was a small Jewish minority in Palestine throughout much post-Roman history, but most Jews chose to be in the greener pastures to the West and North.  (And in some cases South - at some point there were about as many Jews in South Africa as in Palestine!)  The chunk of land pointlessly designated by Romans (and later Byzantines, various Arab tribes, the Ottoman Turks, and finally the British) as "Palestine" was overwhelmingly Muslim, with various Christian and Jewish sects a mere minority.


from wiki....................

"By 1844, Jews constituted the largest population group (and by 1890 an absolute majority) in Jerusalem"

By the way,  the UN wanted to give part of the land to the Palestinians.  The Pals turned them down as they wanted it all.  Another example of brilliant Pal. leadership.

----------


## Alex Libman

If you're going to quote a source, please provide the URL (though Google was very helpful).  If you're going to quote Wikipedia, which they themselves advise against, at least quote the full paragraph, which in fact reads:




> By the mid-19th century, the Land of Israel was a part of the Ottoman Empire and a province of Syria, *populated mostly by Muslim and Christian Arabs*, as well as Jews, Greeks, Druze, Bedouins *and other minorities*.  By 1844, Jews constituted the largest population group (and by 1890 an absolute majority) in Jerusalem *(although as a whole, the Jewish population made up far less than 10% of the total)*.


The 1844 number should take into consideration that Jerusalem had a lot of different sects by then - you could claim that Jews are a majority in NYC if you play with the numbers and slice the other ethnic / denominational groups thinly enough.   And, on a timeline of thousands of years, 1890 falls into what I call the Zionist era.

Anyways, back to the topic of this thread - Jimmy Carter, socialist scumbag though he is, he is not "anti-semitic" for his even-handed approach to the "Middle East peace process".  (Nor is he anti-Jewish, since Jews by far don't represent all Semites, and Israel doesn't represent all Jews).

----------


## Benny45

> If you're going to quote a source, please provide the URL (though Google was very helpful).  If you're going to quote Wikipedia, which they themselves advise against, at least quote the full paragraph, which in fact reads:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1844 number should take into consideration that Jerusalem had a lot of different sects by then - you could claim that Jews are a majority in NYC if you play with the numbers and slice the other ethnic groups thinly enough.   And, on a timeline of thousands of years, 1890 falls into what I call the Zionist era.


less than 10% of the pop still made the the majority population.  What other group had more than 10%?

To be honest, this is a totally stupid arguement.  Israel exists today, and the jews are never going to leave.  The only recourse the Pals have is a homeland of their own in Gaza and the Westbank.  If the world wont accept that, then the fighting will continue.

----------


## Alex Libman

The groups that at the time made up the ~90% that didn't want Israel.

Look, I am having a pointless discussion with an intellectually-dishonest person about a land I'll never visit while my pizza is getting cold.  I'm outta here...

----------


## Benny45

> The groups that at the time made up the ~90% that didn't want Israel.
> 
> Look, I am having a pointless discussion with an intellectually-dishonest person about a land I'll never visit while my pizza is getting cold.  I'm outta here...


Intellectually dishonest because I don't agree with you.  Amazing.  Your absence here will be surely missed.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

Benny45, have you ever read any of Fritz Berg's work? He has a degree in mining engineering and in the 1970s he worked as a mechanical engineer designing poultry processing plants and slaughterhouses (where he worked on the the Final Solution to the chicken problem). Around 1979 he was turned on to (another engineer and professor) Arthur Butz's book *The Hoax of the Twentieth Century* and since 1980 he has been debunking the holocaust myth wholesale. I suggest you read some of his arguments instead of just the "survivor" stories. I read both the revisionist arguments and the exterminationist arguments--do you?

"There were no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq prior to the recent war–and, no Jews or gentiles were killed in gas chambers or gas vans by the Nazis. The “intelligence experts” and “scholars” were wrong. Whatever crimes the Nazis and Hitler did commit, they did not include gassings of Jews or anyone else. Historians have blindly accepted the wildest, pseudo-scientific nonsense imaginable.

Hitler had superb gas chambers–but they were used ONLY to keep people alive. Those gas chambers were used in strategic locations throughout eastern Europe to fumigate entire railroad trains with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Other superb gaschambers were used in POW camps and concentration camps, including Auschwitz, to fumigate everything from clothing to furniture with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Those superb gas chambers certainly could have been used for mass murder as well. The great irony is that none of those real gas chambers have ever been implicated in any of the holocaust gassing claims. Instead, the Nazis supposedly used diesel exhaust and Zyklon-B–but, here is where it gets really crazy, the Zyklon-B was simply dumped, supposedly, through small holes in the roofs of cellars–without the warmed, forced air and circulation that was routinely used in all of Germany's most highly-advanced gas chambers. See my essay.

There is not even a valid theory as to how the alleged homicidal, mass gassings could have happened. All of the alleged gassing methods are so technically absurd that they cannot withstand any serious scientific investigation – no doubt, that is precisely why the official defenders of the holocaust hoax must imprison critics instead whenever possible as in Germany, France, Austria and elsewhere. The defenders of the so-called “holocaust” are ruthless, shameless bigots."

And that's just one of his introductory paragraphs. Read some of his essays at nazigassings.com and learn some real facts, folks.

----------


## AmericaFyeah92

> Benny45, have you ever read any of Fritz Berg's work? He has a degree in mining engineering and in the 1970s he worked as a mechanical engineer designing poultry processing plants and slaughterhouses (where he worked on the the Final Solution to the chicken problem). Around 1979 he was turned on to (another engineer and professor) Arthur Butz's book *The Hoax of the Twentieth Century* and since 1980 he has been debunking the holocaust myth wholesale. I suggest you read some of his arguments instead of just the "survivor" stories. I read both the revisionist arguments and the exterminationist arguments--do you?
> 
> "There were no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq prior to the recent warand, no Jews or gentiles were killed in gas chambers or gas vans by the Nazis. The intelligence experts and scholars were wrong. Whatever crimes the Nazis and Hitler did commit, they did not include gassings of Jews or anyone else. Historians have blindly accepted the wildest, pseudo-scientific nonsense imaginable.
> 
> Hitler had superb gas chambersbut they were used ONLY to keep people alive. Those gas chambers were used in strategic locations throughout eastern Europe to fumigate entire railroad trains with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Other superb gaschambers were used in POW camps and concentration camps, including Auschwitz, to fumigate everything from clothing to furniture with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Those superb gas chambers certainly could have been used for mass murder as well. The great irony is that none of those real gas chambers have ever been implicated in any of the holocaust gassing claims. Instead, the Nazis supposedly used diesel exhaust and Zyklon-Bbut, here is where it gets really crazy, the Zyklon-B was simply dumped, supposedly, through small holes in the roofs of cellarswithout the warmed, forced air and circulation that was routinely used in all of Germany's most highly-advanced gas chambers. See my essay.
> 
> There is not even a valid theory as to how the alleged homicidal, mass gassings could have happened. All of the alleged gassing methods are so technically absurd that they cannot withstand any serious scientific investigation  no doubt, that is precisely why the official defenders of the holocaust hoax must imprison critics instead whenever possible as in Germany, France, Austria and elsewhere. The defenders of the so-called holocaust are ruthless, shameless bigots."
> 
> And that's just one of his introductory paragraphs. Read some of his essays at nazigassings.com and learn some real facts, folks.



$#@! off, go back to stormfront

----------


## Sir VotesALot

In the book for which Elie Wiesel is most famous, namely Night,"[5] which is recommended reading in public schools across this country, Wiesel paints an horrendous picture of life in Auschwitz from April 1944 to January 1945 when he was there. Although many hundreds of thousands of Jews were supposedly gassed there during this time, Wiesel makes no mention of gassings or gas chambers anywhere in his book, as Jürgen Graf and Robert Faurisson have pointed out to us.[6] He does however claim to have seen flames from the chimneys and Dr. Mengele wearing a monocle. Both claims are clearly lies.

When the Russians were about to overrun Auschwitz in January 1945, both Elie and his father chose to go west with the retreating Nazis and SS rather than be liberated by America's greatest ally. They could have told the whole world about Auschwitz within daysbut, both Elie and his father as well as countless thousands of other Jews chose instead to trek west with the Nazis on foot at night in the middle of one of the coldest winters and continue working for the defense of the Reich thereafter. In effect, they chose to collaborate.

Some of Wiesel's exact words in Night are:[7]

"The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him [the father] entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. Well, what shall we do, father? He was silent. Let's be evacuated with the others, I told him.

Elie's tale in this regard is corroborated by other survivor accounts including that of Primo Levi. In Levi's book Survival in Auschwitz, we have his words for January 17th, 1945:

"It was not a question of reasoning: I would probably also have followed the instinct of the flock if I had not felt so weak: fear is supremely contagious, and its immediate reaction is to make one try to run away.

But he's talking here about running away with the Nazis'and not Nazis who were mere rank and file party members but supposedly the worst of the worst. He's talking here about running away with the same Nazis and SS who had supposedly carried out the greatest imaginable mass murders of Jews and others in the entire history of the universe. He's talking about running away with the people who supposedly did the actual killings of thousands daily for several years. But, according to his own words he would probably have gone with them nonetheless, except that he was not feeling good that day; he was feeling weak. The fear that he overcame was clearly fear of the Russians and not the Nazis; there is no mention of fear of what the Nazis and SS might do when the evacuees entered the forest or sometime later.

The choices that were made here in January 1945 are enormously important. In the entire history of Jewish suffering at the hands of gentiles what moment in time could possibly be more dramatic than this precious moment when Jews could choose between, on the one hand, liberation by the Soviets with the chances to tell the whole world about the evil Nazis and to help bring about their defeatand the other choice of going with the Nazi mass murderers and to continue working for them and to help preserve their evil regime. In the vast majority of cases, they chose to go with the Nazis'.

The momentous choice brings Shakespeare's Hamlet to mind:

"To remain, or not to remain; that is the question: to remain and be liberated by Soviet troops and risk their slings and rifles in order to tell the whole world about the outrageous Nazis'or, take arms and feet against a sea of cold and darkness in order to collaborate with the very same outrageous Nazis'. Oh what heartacheay there's the rub! Thus conscience does make cowards of us all.

So what was the final scorehere a drum roll seems fitting in the background as Vanna White comes onto the stage with the sealed envelope and the answer to the great riddle. The envelope is torn open and the choice isdrum roll againaccording to Levi himself 800 choose to remain in Auschwitz, but 20,000 choose to go and collaborate with the Nazi mass murderers. Wow! Such a surprisealready!

We see the same deliberate pro-'Nazi collaboration in the survivors from Schindler's List. In their well-known story, as the Russians were about to overrun Plaszow just thirty miles down the road to the east from Auschwitz in November 1944, Schindler and more than a thousand Jews chose to go west with the retreating Nazis rather than hang back and be liberated by the Soviets. Some even spent the next several weeks at Auschwitzand none were gassed, not even in the movie. The hoax has certainly had its day. If there had been any kind of extermination of Jews at all Auschwitz, all of the Jews in Cracow and Plaszow would have known about it as well. All of the Jews who went west in effect also denied the Holocaust albeit only with their hands and feet. The Jews themselves were the first true Holocaust deniers, and it is about time they get all the credit they deserve.

The rather simple analysis of Holocaust survivor tales I have given here is an easy to understand refutation of the hoax in general. I urge all readers to reexamine the survivor accounts for themselves but critically and systematically. The internet with search engines like Google allows anyone to analyze literally thousands of survivor accounts in seconds for major flaws of the type I have discussed. Just search for keywords like evacuation or combinations of words like holocaust survivor Auschwitz.

One last piece of literature for this discussion is the highly acclaimed book Sophie's Choice by William Styron. What does Styron have to say about Sophie or any other Auschwitz survivor going west in January 1945? The book is a novel, but it is an historical novel by a great writer and intellector so we are toldand where we might find an explanation or insight for Elie's kind of choice. But there is really nothing there. The important choice Sophie made in the book was between her two children; which one should be killed in the gas chamber and which one should live? Certainly that would have been a heart-wrenching choice and worthy of a great novelbut as to the later choice to go west with the Nazi mass murderers, even the murderers of one of those same precious children, there was nothing except for the following:

"The Russians were coming and the SS wanted the children destroyed. Most of them were Polish; the Jewish children were already dead. They thought of burning them alive in a pit, or shooting them, but they decided to do something that wouldn't show too many marks and evidence. So in the freezing cold they marched the children down to the river and made them take off their clothes and soak them in the water as if they were washing them, and then made them put on these wet clothes again. Then they marched them back to the area in front of the barracks where they had been living and had a roll call. Standing in their wet clothes. The roll call lasted for many, many hours while the children stood wet and freezing and night came. All of the children died of being exposed that day. They died of exposure and pneumonia, very fast.

If anything like that had actually happened, it would have been all the more reason to stay in Auschwitz and wait for the Soviets to arrive rather than go west with the Nazis and the SS. I dare say there is absolutely no serious corroboration of Styron's tale of the freezing children. Although Styron does not tell us, Sophie apparently chose to trek west with the Nazi murderers as well.

www.nazigassings.com

----------


## Zolah

> I guess the Russian government should be tried for their vast crimes in Chechyna.
> I guess the Chinese government should be tried for their vast crimes in Tibet
> I guess the North Korean government should be tried for its crimes against its own population
> You can probably add most of the governments in Africa to the list.
> 
> etc, etc, etc...............................


Well the case in Chechyna isn't clear-cut to me, but yes what you listed is a good start, Britain and America have committed many war crimes too, but the only people being tried for war crimes are Yugoslavians who were defeated a decade ago.




> You actually believe Ahmadinejad didnt mean he wants to see Israel wiped off the map?  My goodness.
> 
> Did you read what this madman said today?  He doubts the 3000 deaths in NY on 911 because the names of the victims have never been made public.  I guess the fact that they are read aloud on the anniversary each year has gone unnoticed to this wacko.


Hey I just tried to deride an anti-semite and you still have a go at me, come on, man  

Ahmadinejad isn't a blood-sucking vampire with a thirst for Jewish blood or anything, he hates Zionism as do I, it has nothing to do with Judaism. There was a controversy obviously when some journalists reported a translation of Ahmadinejad that stated he said he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map", but there is no idiom in Persian to even express this, what he actually said was he wanted to "eliminate the Zionist regime" or something similar, which as I said does not require violence. To repeat myself, I do not think the man is mad or an anti-semite. 

Your second point - I actually read about him saying that a few days ago at least, take this comparison to heart please - As you may very well be cautious to trust Ahmadinejad and what he says, you can recognise why he may very well be skeptical of what America says, and with good reason - America has clearly shown its intent to make Iran conform with what America wants.

I also read that Ahmadinejad is skeptical of the Holocaust official story, as with the 9/11 thing this is something I disagree with upon with him, but I understand fully why he is skeptical, he has good reason to doubt what America says, hells sake everyone knows not to trust politicians in America and Britain. 

But, I wouldn't write him off as a whacko, I wasn't in Auschwitz in the 1940s and I wasn't in New York in September 2001, and my Agnostic beliefs lead me to be open-minded about what really happened, as I may never really know what actually happened. I'm just trying to be reasonable and level-headed here.

----------


## Alex Libman

I'm not going to touch any holocaust-denial claims without a 10-foot-pole.  (And if I had a 10-foot-tall Pole, I'd send him to Iraq.)  But it is true that history is written by the victors, and Stalin, who gained control of a huge chunk of Eastern Europe where most of the atrocities were carried out, was very much interested in making the Germans look as barbaric as possible, while minimizing the crimes committed by the Soviets and the other allies.

Millions of Jews did die, but by rational estimates less than 5-6 million, and most died from horrible living conditions rather than murdered deliberately.  And not all efforts were centrally controlled - there were Pogroms in Poland after WW2 as well.  And Hitler very much wanted to get rid of his "fifth column" in the most profitable way possible, but none of the influential Western Jews, who had a lot to gain from Zionism, wanted to play ball.  "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews of Europe", the popular saying went.  And what Americans did to the Japanese citizens wasn't that much different, the difference was that America wasn't  destabilized country losing a war and being ravaged by hunger, lack of fuel, and contagious diseases.

But none of this should take away from the fact that Jews had the highest mortality rates, at least in Poland and other occupied-and-liberated lands of Eastern Europe.  Numbers are very uneven: 160,000 of 7+ million German dead were Jews, 1 mil of 23 mil dead Soviets, 67,000 of 1+ mil dead in Yugoslavia, etc.  My own grandfather, a Jew, is counted among those numbers, but he died as a volunteer fighting for the Soviets...  I guess Steven Spielberg just forgot to make a movie about the 22 Soviet citizens of other ethnicities who died fighting next to him...

----------


## Benny45

> Well the case in Chechyna isn't clear-cut to me


Russian soldiers raped, plundered, and killed their way right through Chechyna.  Thousands are missing to this day.




> I actually read about him saying that a few days ago at least, take this comparison to heart please - As you may very well be cautious to trust Ahmadinejad and what he says, you can recognise why he may very well be skeptical of what America says


Nope, I'm not taking his comparison to heart.  I can only imagine the additional pain that comments like his bring to the poor families that lost loved ones that day.  The names have been well documeted for years.  He is either a liar or inept.  Either is scary for a man that runs a country.




> I understand fully why he is skeptical, he has good reason to doubt what America says, hells sake everyone knows not to trust politicians in America and Britain.


Oh please.  Lets not use the whole "I dont trust America" excuse when trying to explain away one of the most evil (and by the way, well documented) events that have ever happened.  No amount of proof will ever be enough for these crazies.  




> Hey I just tried to deride an anti-semite and you still have a go at me, come on, man


I will bring up your name in a positive way tonight at my zionist world domination meeting, which is held in the back room at my local starbucks.

----------


## Benny45

> Millions of Jews did die, but by rational estimates less than 5-6 million, and most died from horrible living conditions rather than murdered deliberately.


Hah, whose rational estimates are you using?  

If by "horrible living conditions" you mean gas chambers and firing squads, then we totally agree.

I'm not going to debate the holocaust with a bunch of deniers.  There is so much evidence out there that I have no interest in dealing with the crazies here.

Its very sad to me that Ron Pauls message has been hi-jacked by 9/11 truthers, Anti-Semitics, Holocaust deniers, and plain old America haters.


Its no-wonder he lost big.

----------


## Alex Libman

Benny, you are clearly here by mistake.  Go suck on McCain's teat.  Freedom isn't for people like you.

----------


## Zolah

Don't strawman your way out of this.




> Russian soldiers raped, plundered, and killed their way right through Chechyna.  Thousands are missing to this day.


Yes, and wrongly so, the military should never be used against the public, but Chechyna isn't innocent - though their citizens are.





> Nope, I'm not taking his comparison to heart.  I can only imagine the additional pain that comments like his bring to the poor families that lost loved ones that day.  The names have been well documeted for years.  He is either a liar or inept.  Either is scary for a man that runs a country.


First sentence - it's my comparison, not his, incase that isn't a typo. Liar or inept or mistaken or skeptical, at least, you can't just decide he falls into either of 2 bad catergories because you don't like him. I still stand by what I said about him having just reason to be sketpical, this doesn't justify anything he might say or do, but it does justify his skepticism. Which leads onto the next titbit below - 





> ]Oh please.  Lets not use the whole "I dont trust America" excuse when trying to explain away one of the most evil (and by the way, well documented) events that have ever happened.  No amount of proof will ever be enough for these crazies.


I also stand by what I said here, and you have taken what I said grossly out of context here. What I did say was that in the position of someone in a country that has been screwed over several times by Britain and USA, I would be skeptical of what they told me. I also said that we all know that politicians in America and Britain are untrustworthy, something which is also very well documented. 

I agree with your last point, there are people who aren't open-minded indeed, but I think you may find a way to disagree with me even when I'm agreeing with you. 






> I will bring up your name in a positive way tonight at my zionist world domination meeting, which is held in the back room at my local starbucks.


Appreciated.

----------


## Benny45

> Benny, you are clearly here by mistake.  Go suck on McCain's teat.  Freedom isn't for people like you.


Why?  Im a big RP supporter.  I voted for him and donated to him.  I guess because Im not a holocaust or 911 denier then I dont belong here.

Hey, you know who else isnt ................................Ron Paul!!!!!


Alex, you should ask yourself, what are you doing here?

----------


## Benny45

> What I did say was that in the position of someone in a country that has been screwed over several times by Britain and USA, I would be skeptical of what they told me. I also said that we all know that politicians in America and Britain are untrustworthy, something which is also very well documented.


The problem with your theory is that most of the evidence has come from non-Americans.  As as already stated, the six million comes from the architect of the holocaust himself.  I'm not going to debate the holocaust here anymore.  Its pointless.

----------


## Zolah

What I said in that quote isn't exclusive to one event, I was talking about why Ahmadinejad should be skeptical of everything he's told from America.




> The problem with your theory is that most of the evidence has come from non-Americans.  As as already stated, the six million comes from the architect of the holocaust himself.  I'm not going to debate the holocaust here anymore.  Its pointless.


I only gave my own opinion on the holocaust once




> I also read that Ahmadinejad is skeptical of the Holocaust official story, as with the 9/11 thing this is something I disagree with upon with him, but I understand fully why he is skeptical


But I agree with you that it is pointless to argue about the holocaust.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> I can make the case that Bin Laden is responsible for 9/11.
> 
> I have no disagreement with the rest of your post.  The Jewish lobby is strong.


Do you think it is ok for another country to give our politicians money to perform special favors for them, at taxpayer expense?

----------


## Benny45

> Do you think it is ok for another country to give our politicians money to perform special favors for them, at taxpayer expense?


You singling out Israel for some reason?

By the way, AIPAC is a American committee, not Israeli.  What does this have to do with the topic?

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

> You singling out Israel for some reason?  
> 
> By the way, AIPAC is a American committee, not Israeli.


But why are they loyal to Israel? They act like traitors.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> You singling out Israel for some reason?
> 
> By the way, AIPAC is a American committee, not Israeli.  What does this have to do with the topic?


Israel is singled out because they are far and away more powerful than any other lobbying group.

They may be an American committee, but most board members have dual citizenship.

You don't actually think it's called the American-Israeli Political Action Committee for no reason do you? Their loyalties lie with Israel.


The Holocaust deniers etc. can suck it. I don't need to make up lies to point out how screwed up our situation with Israel is.

----------


## Benny45

> But why are they loyal to Israel? They act like traitors.


There are also Muslim lobbys, African lobbys,....etc. You questioning their loyalty?  I'm pro-Israel, are you questioning my loyalty to my country?  I (like my father and brother) have served in our armed forces, I pay my taxes, and have always voted.


Again, what does this have to do with the topic?

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

> There are also Muslim lobbys, African lobbys,....etc. You questioning their loyalty?  I'm pro-Israel, are you questioning my loyalty to my country?  I (like my father and brother) have served in our armed forces, I pay my taxes, and have always voted.
> 
> 
> Again, what does this have to do with the topic?


Why don't they move there if they're pro-Israel? There is no need for ANY lobbyists. Everyone should have the same exact rights as everyone else. No more, no less. No legislation of virtue.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> There are also Muslim lobbys, African lobbys,....etc. You questioning their loyalty?  I'm pro-Israel, are you questioning my loyalty to my country?  I (like my father and brother) have served in our armed forces, I pay my taxes, and have always voted.
> 
> 
> Again, what does this have to do with the topic?


There is nothing wrong with being Pro-Israel.

There IS something wrong with asking the rest of the country to foot the bill for another country.

Nobody here is questioning your loyalties, as long as you agree that Israel is a sovereign nation that is capable of taking care of her own issues without the help of the United States.

When someone asks me to foot the bill for another country I do question their loyalties.

I question the loyalties of those that want to allow illegal immigration to continue.

Like I've said before, Israel is singled out because it is the largest, and best example of a lobby with foreign loyalties shaping the policies of America. As far as I'm concerned that is a loss of US sovereignty, when our policies are made to suit those of a foreign country.

I've said it before I'll say it again, the Saudi lobby is WRONG, the Cuban lobby is wrong, the United Macedonian Diaspora is wrong.

However, only two have significant power in America, Israelis and Saudis.

And, as I stated earlier, the Saudis have caused us quite a bit of grief IMHO.

Trade and Diplomacy with all, entangling alliances with none.

----------


## Benny45

> Why don't they move there if they're pro-Israel? There is no need for ANY lobbyists. Everyone should have the same exact rights as everyone else. No more, no less. No legislation of virtue.


I'm pro-Israel?  should I move?  Should everybody move that does not have the same opinion as you?  

As this has nothing really to do with the topic, I'm done debating it.

----------


## Benny45

> There is nothing wrong with being Pro-Israel.
> 
> There IS something wrong with asking the rest of the country to foot the bill for another country.
> 
> Nobody here is questioning your loyalties, as long as you agree that Israel is a sovereign nation that is capable of taking care of her own issues without the help of the United States.
> 
> When someone asks me to foot the bill for another country I do question their loyalties.
> 
> I question the loyalties of those that want to allow illegal immigration to continue.
> ...



As I have stated countless times, I am all for cutting aid to every country, as long as we are not just singling out Israel.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

Israel should've been attacked and, if not destroyed completely, then at least disarmed after the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty (Machine-gunning life rafts? You Jews are just plain sick). Israel also arms more terrorist groups than Iran or Syria could ever dream of; the Mossad was arming the Tamil Tigers (and probably still is) in the 1980s, whose kill ratio is far higher than Hamas or Hezbollah, as well as the Sinhalese government. That's right, they were arming BOTH SIDES of the conflict. At least Iran and Syria PICK A SIDE when they send aid to Hezbollah to fight the evil Zionists. All Israel cares about is money.

And yes, Benny45, please move to Israel. You know full well that the Jewish lobby is a detriment to American interests so there's really no reason for you to stay here if you're going to remain willfully ignorant of that and continue to pick our pockets you stinkin' agent/traitor.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> As I have stated countless times, I am all for cutting aid to every country, as long as we are not just singling out Israel.


Then we are in agreement, the Israeli lobby is just a very good example of losing sovereignty to another country through political favors, I don't mean to single them out in our foreign aid cuts. 

I know others do mean to single Israel out, but I'm interested in singling out all foreign associated lobbys.

----------


## Zolah

> I'm pro-Israel?  should I move?  Should everybody move that does not have the same opinion as you?  
> 
> As this has nothing really to do with the topic, I'm done debating it.


He meant the lobbyists I'm sure, the whole area of lobbyists seems like a black hole where virtue has been sucked into nothingness, very strange business.

AIPAC is one of the (if not THE) most influencial lobby in Washington, guess it just makes a good example, no one can forget that Saudis have an enormous stake in the American economy, and that itself holds America to play niceball with them.

Trade and diplomacy with all, entangling alliances with none +1

Sir VotesAlot, no one is interested in your racist rhetoric.

----------


## Benny45

> Israel should've been attacked and, if not destroyed completely, then at least disarmed after the cowardly attack on the USS Liberty (Machine-gunning life rafts? You Jews are just plain sick). Israel also arms more terrorist groups than Iran or Syria could ever dream of; the Mossad was arming the Tamil Tigers (and probably still is) in the 1980s, whose kill ratio is far higher than Hamas or Hezbollah, as well as the Sinhalese government. That's right, they were arming BOTH SIDES of the conflict. At least Iran and Syria PICK A SIDE when they send aid to Hezbollah to fight the evil Zionists. All Israel cares about is money.
> 
> And yes, Benny45, please move to Israel. You know full well that the Jewish lobby is a detriment to American interests so there's really no reason for you to stay here if you're going to remain willfully ignorant of that and continue to pick our pockets you stinkin' agent/traitor.



Nah, I think I will stay.

 Funny you keep mentioning the USS Liberty and give Hezbollah a pass. Especially since it was Hezbollah that killed over 200 US marines in Lebanon, and is responsible for more American deaths than any terrorist organization besides Al-Q.

----------


## Benny45

> Then we are in agreement, the Israeli lobby is just a very good example of losing sovereignty to another country through political favors, I don't mean to single them out in our foreign aid cuts. 
> 
> I know others do mean to single Israel out, but I'm interested in singling out all foreign associated lobbys.


Good....

Now that we settled this, maybe we can solve global hunger.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> Good....
> 
> Now that we settled this, maybe we can solve global hunger.


I'll leave that up to Comrade-Obama

----------


## Sir VotesALot

> Nah, I think I will stay.
> 
>  Funny you keep mentioning the USS Liberty and give Hezbollah a pass. Especially since it was Hezbollah that killed over 200 US marines in Lebanon, and is responsible for more American deaths than any terrorist organization besides Al-Q.


And it was Israeli intelligence who knew about the attack beforehand and DIDN'T TELL US, as Victor Ostrovsky (ex-Mossad agent) admitted in his memoirs. I don't blame Hezbollah for carrying out that attack if they did--it's their terf and we had no right to be on it. Of course it was Israel's fault in the first place.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

And the Jewish lobby has killed way more Americans (i.e. Iraq war) than Hezbollah could ever dream of.

----------


## Benny45

> And it was Israeli intelligence who knew about the attack beforehand and DIDN'T TELL US, as Victor Ostrovsky (ex-Mossad agent) admitted in his memoirs. I don't blame Hezbollah for carrying out that attack if they did--it's their terf and we had no right to be on it. Of course it was Israel's fault in the first place.


My goodness, you are insane

----------


## Sir VotesALot

Yes, I *READ*. My goodness, how insane!

----------


## Benny45

> Yes, I *READ*. My goodness, how insane!


Its not that you read, its what you read.  Im sure plenty of crazy people read.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

Granted I have read a lot of wild-and-crazy books like Elie Wiesel's "Night" and Alan Dershowitz's "The Case for Israel" but the Ostrovsky book reads as far more plausible than those two, which is probably why it was banned in Israel.

----------


## Benny45

> Granted I have read a lot of wild-and-crazy books like Elie Wiesel's "Night" and Alan Dershowitz's "The Case for Israel" but the Ostrovsky book reads as far more plausible than those two, which is probably why it was banned in Israel.


Congrats on your reading selections.  You should be proud of your beliefs.  After all you are a holocaust denier, a conspiracy theorist, jew hating, blame Israel for everything (when its not Americas fault), Ron Paul supporter.  Im sure RP is overcome with joy over the last bit.




By the way, Ostrovsky wrote novels about the Mossad, and 1 book he claimed to be non-fiction.  Ofcourse none of what he wrote was ever proven to be accurate and almost every expert that has read it finds it completely unbelievable.  Lets not let a little thing like the truth get in the way of your jew hating.


I will let you have the last word.  My mother always told me to be kind to wackos.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

Let me just clarify something: I don't wish the (physical) destruction of Israel or any harm to come to any Israeli citizen, and I know that's not what Ahmadenijad actually said (as someone already mentioned) but it's fun to repeat in order to get a rise out of Jewish extremists like Benny45. But I do agree with Benny45 however that Ahmadenijad probably does _desire_ the physical destruction of Israel (what Arab leader doesn't?) but that isn't what he _said_ in the context of that one speech; he was clearly talking about regime change (a la Soviet Union).

On the other hand, I do support his holocaust conferences 100%. Those French and Swiss researchers aren't allowed to question the holocaust in their own countries, so why the hell shouldn't they have their own forum to discuss it in? Iran should be commended for setting that up, and especially for condemning the vile imprisonments of historians in Europe.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

> Congrats on your reading selections.  You should be proud of your beliefs.  After all you are a holocaust denier, a conspiracy theorist, jew hating, blame Israel for everything *(when its not Americas fault)*, Ron Paul supporter.  Im sure RP is overcome with joy over the last bit.


Trust me, I fault America way more than I do Israel. The current American regime is my no. 1 most-hated in the world, then Germany and a number of EU countries. I actually admire the Israeli government for sticking up for its own kind (all over the $#@!ing world, 24/7) and looking out for their own interests--at least in the short run. I believe in the long run its policies will be disastrous for Jews everywhere.

America is really to blame for all this. Jews will always act like Jews, of course, and its we who should not be sending them any aid. It's we who should not be cowering in fear from the pressure they exert on us. If 9/11 was in fact a real terrorist attack then we certainly deserved it, just as we will deserve more in the future. We are a nation of miserable cowards. The Israelis who carry rifles around Tel Aviv I respect far more than the average American.

----------


## american empire

been reading the thread....benny you keep bringing the Egyptian 3 billion dollars.....please tell me you know and read history....you are true when you say that not all Egyptians like America but what you "spin" is that they dont like american POLICIES which have nothing to do with americans...besides the hate is directed because of the billions go to subsidize a dictator Husni Mubarak....the dictator is on American payroll so that Israel doesnt have to deal with another foe on its western borders....jeez being an Israeli fanatic you must know the history of Egypt and their dictatorship.....

i bet you dont even know that bread in egypt is subsidized by the govt...maybe thats where the 3 billion is going...so that people dont rise against the dictatorship...what most people fail to realize is that the majority of Arab population wants democracy and freedom only to be stifled by dictators on American payroll and guess who they sign peace treaties with?...Israel...

benny you need tyo read the book "the Israeli lobby and US foreign policy " by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt ....one is a professor in Univ of Chicago and the other at Harvard...and jewish ...I mentioned that b/c i dont want you to discredit them by saying they are probably antisemites or have an agenda...please read the book......then maybe we could discuss more about the middle east and US involvement....

again...

"the Israeli lobby and US foreign policy " by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

----------


## sidster

> Let me just clarify something: I don't wish the (physical) destruction of Israel or any harm to come to any Israeli citizen, and I know that's not what Ahmadenijad actually said (as someone already mentioned) but it's fun to repeat in order to get a rise out of Jewish extremists like Benny45. But I do agree with Benny45 however that Ahmadenijad probably does _desire_ the physical destruction of Israel (*what Arab leader doesn't?*) but that isn't what he _said_ in the context of that one speech; he was clearly talking about regime change


Umm... Iranians are _NOT_  Arab ... they are Persians.

----------


## sidster

Wow... I can't believe I read this entire thread and almost every single post!
Some of the arguments were interesting and I think I did learn a few things.
But I'm curious what those arguing over Israel and Palestine and the tensions
over at that region think of _Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land_? It is
a two part documentary about the region and the conflict between Israel
and Palestinians.

----------


## Zolah

> Umm... Iranians are _NOT_  Arab ... they are Persians.


Quite right, there is only approximately 2-3% of the Iranian population that are Arabs.

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

> Umm... Iranians are _NOT_  Arab ... they are Persians.


Like the breed of cat?

----------


## sidster

> Like the breed of cat?


Persian People and then also might be interested in the Persian Empire

----------


## Todd

The fact is as Persian or Arab, the common denominator is Islam Vs. Jewish beliefs

----------


## Give me liberty

Jimmy Carter has lost touch on the ground.

He thinks he will bring peace, but he wont.  


He just talks. Nothing more, nothing else.



How to have peace is to act, not talk. 


But no side so far is acting peacefully.
so far we have seen each side terror drills, war drills.

Why do you they are getting ready for the drills? unless they know there will be a war.

----------


## Zippyjuan

They run drills often. All militaries do and few go to war.

----------


## sidster

> The fact is as Persian or Arab, the common denominator is Islam Vs. Jewish beliefs


Not quite. There are many religions in Iran. Yes, by far they are
Muslim, but there are many Christians, Zoroastrians as well as
Jewish Iranians/Persians living in Iran.

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

Jimmy Carter is representing CFR.

----------


## Sir VotesALot

I'm aware Iran is mostly Persian but I thought Ahmadenijad himself was Arab. I guess I was mistaken.

----------


## Flash

I hate Israel. But I like Jews and hate people that hate Jews.




> I'm aware Iran is mostly Persian but I thought Ahmadenijad himself was Arab. I guess I was mistaken.


He is an Arab. Although most Iranians are Persians. Some Persians have 'arabic' looks I believe because of other semitic mixture. Like the Elamites.

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## sidster

> He is an Arab. Although most Iranians are Persians. Some Persians have 'arabic' looks I believe because of other semitic mixture. Like the Elamites.


News flash... he is not an Arab.

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## Flash

> News flash... he is not an Arab.



Depends on your definition of Arab. If you mean arabic speaking/arabic culture then he could be considered one since he embraces their culture. But if you mean he doesn't have ancestry from the arabian peninsula then I find that hard to believe.

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## Zolah

> Depends on your definition of Arab. If you mean arabic speaking/arabic culture then he could be considered one since he embraces their culture. But if you mean he doesn't have ancestry from the arabian peninsula then I find that hard to believe.


Does your definition of Arab include people who aren't Arabs?

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## Flash

> Does your definition of Arab include people who aren't Arabs?


Its not rocket science. Mahmoud embraces Arabic culture and looks like an Arab. How are people saying hes not an arab? Its stupid.

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## Zolah

> Its not rocket science. Mahmoud embraces Arabic culture and looks like an Arab. How are people saying hes not an arab? Its stupid.


It could also be said that he looks like a Turk, or even a Greek, but his family is Persian, as he is, its the language he speaks (Persian) and he lives in Iran, all these minor details lead to people saying he's not an Arab. It's logic.

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## Flash

> It could also be said that he looks like a Turk, or even a Greek, but his family is Persian, as he is, its the language he speaks (Persian) and he lives in Iran, all these minor details lead to people saying he's not an Arab. It's logic.


Theres tons of Arabs in that country. Its not a far-out idea that he could be mixed. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about if you don't believe Iran has semitic mixture.  The Islamic revolution brought more arabs into that place. And since when do Turkic people look like Arabs?

And what language he speaks means nothing racially. Its like a South American amerindian speaks Spanish and calls himself "Spanish" (as some do). Its not accurate. And saying "he lives in Iran" means nothing. A chinaman that lives in Tibet isn't tibetian racially.



Iran shah



Iran president

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## devil21

I stand corrected.  Now Jimmy Carter is a "bigot".  The AIPAC bull$#@! smear campaign is in high gear it seems.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/...eli_ambassador




> NEW YORK - Israel's ambassador to the United Nations on Thursday called former President Jimmy Carter "a bigot" for meeting with the leader of the militant Hamas movement in Syria. 
> 
> Carter, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, "went to the region with soiled hands and came back with bloody hands after shaking the hand of Khaled Mashaal, the leader of Hamas," Ambassador Dan Gillerman told a luncheon briefing for reporters.
> 
> The diplomat was questioned about problems facing his country during a wide-ranging discussion with reporters lasting more than an hour. The briefing was sponsored by The Israel Project, a Washington-based, media-oriented advocacy group.
> 
> The ambassador's harsh words for Carter came days after the ex-president met with Mashaal for seven hours in Damascus to negotiate a cease-fire with Gaza's Hamas rulers. Carter then called Mashaal on Monday to try to get him to agree to a one-month truce without conditions, but the Hamas leader rejected the idea.
> 
> The ambassador called last weekend's encounter "a very sad episode in American history."
> ...


Whether you liked his presidency or not, there is something VERY wrong with a UN ambassador calling an ex-president a "bigot" in public.  WHY DONT AMERICANS STAND UP TO THIS $#@!?????  These friggin foreigners are TRASHING an American president and nobody cares?

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## Mach

> I stand corrected.  Now Jimmy Carter is a "bigot".  The AIPAC bull$#@! smear campaign is in high gear it seems.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/...eli_ambassador
> 
> 
> 
> Whether you liked his presidency or not, there is something VERY wrong with a UN ambassador calling an ex-president a "bigot" in public.  WHY DONT AMERICANS STAND UP TO THIS $#@!?????  These friggin foreigners are TRASHING an American president and nobody cares?


High Gear? Cruise Control as usual............... same ole' same ole'.........

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## sidster

> Its not rocket science. *Mahmoud embraces Arabic culture and looks like an Arab*. How are people saying hes not an arab? Its stupid.



You are a bigot by that definition and not very bright based on your
following statement:




> I hate Israel. But I like Jews and hate people that hate Jews.

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## Zolah

> Theres tons of Arabs in that country. Its not a far-out idea that he could be mixed. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about if you don't believe Iran has semitic mixture.  The Islamic revolution brought more arabs into that place. And since when do Turkic people look like Arabs?
> 
> And what language he speaks means nothing racially. Its like a South American amerindian speaks Spanish and calls himself "Spanish" (as some do). Its not accurate. And saying "he lives in Iran" means nothing. A chinaman that lives in Tibet isn't tibetian racially.


Will go point-by-point quickly, 3% of the population in Iran is Arab. It is possible his family background has mixed ethnicity, but it doesn't change the fact that he's not an Arab. Next point is based on assumption and a personal slate, which invalidates your post, but what the hey I'm bored, of course Iran has a semitic nature, it would be hard not to have being so close to the semitic countries. And since when did Turks _not_ look like Arabs?  It's all the same region.

South America isn't a valid example. A better example would be: a Korean whose family has some Chinese or possibly Japanese mixture, but this Korean was born and raised in Korea and speaks the language, so is a Korean. A lot of people may not be able to tell the difference between Korean and Chinese or Japanese language or people, similar situation to Persian and Arab, but assuredly they are ethnically different. 

My point about him living in Iran, or more specifically being born and raised in Iran, is part of the multiple minor details I mentioned to validate his ethnicity. Your next point is more about immigration than ethnicity, irrelevant.

This thread is now almost completely lacking substance, but I believe the Carter meetings issue is pretty much over for now anyway.

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## devil21

> High Gear? Cruise Control as usual............... same ole' same ole'.........


I do believe having the UN ambassador of our "Israeli allies" calling our own ex-president a "bigot" would be new territory.

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## devil21

> You are a bigot by that definition and not very bright based on your
> following statement:


Absolutely not.  Jews as a religion are not the problem.  It's the power hungry Jews at the top of both Israeli and the US power structure that are the problem.  

Can you have a problem with blacks that rob liquor stores while not hating black people overall?  Can you have a problem with white priests that molest children but not hate Catholics overall?

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## ElyaKatz

> I guess the same guy that negotiated the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, as well as winning Nobel Peace Prizes for his foreign policy work, is now "anti-semitic".  How much you wanna bet that AIPAC was involved in the board protest part?
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080414/...carter_mideast
> 
> 
> 
> So Jimmy Carter is an anti-semite since he "hates" Israel.  Gimme a break     As a night owl, it amazes me how the real news is only published online at 4am.


Jimmy Carter's antisemitism has been well known for years. He receives a lot of $$ from the Saudis.

http://www.jerusalemnewsnetwork.com/...yCarterWar.swf
http://frontpagemagazine.com/readArt...px?ARTID=26364
http://www.steveemerson.com/4393/the...-house-of-saud
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...figure it out.

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## coyote_sprit

Holy $#@! Elya, you broke your record by bumping a thread that is damn near 1 and half years old.

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## devil21

> Jimmy Carter's antisemitism has been well known for years. He receives a lot of $$ from the Saudis.
> 
> http://www.jerusalemnewsnetwork.com/...yCarterWar.swf
> http://frontpagemagazine.com/readArt...px?ARTID=26364
> http://www.steveemerson.com/4393/the...-house-of-saud
> http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...figure it out.


Holy thread resurrection batman!

What do Saudi links have to do with anti-semitism?  The Bush family is all up in the Saudi's rear end yet GWB was a huge supporter of Israel during his presidency.  Explain how one equals the other please?

Btw, can you quote an article or something not written by Zionists like Alan Derschowitz?

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## Flash

don't remember this thread. I hope Israelis and Palis can work something out once we take our hands off the situation and stop fudning both sides. Jimmy Carter I think agrees.

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