# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  living off grid undetected.

## FunkBuddha

What would happen if a person owned say 200 acres of land in the middle of nowhere in a wooded area and built an off-grid sustainable settlement of sorts. The person always used a P.O. box for mail and never had electricity, sewer, gas or phone run to the property. Would this person ever be noticed? 

Sure you'd have to pay property taxes, but a tax assessor isn't going to go walk the land to find out if you built house or not would they? I suppose if you got caught there would be big problems, but that never stopped me before.

I would greatly appreciate it if someone would come along and put a hole in this theory of mine before I go and get myself into trouble.

----------


## brandon

Ask Randy Weaver how well it worked out for him.

----------


## Kalifornia

randy was a dumbass for 1. hanging out at a white supremacist compound, and 2. sawing off a shotgun for a fed.  im pretty sure that if he had kept to himself, hed have been left alone forever.

----------


## constituent

yep to kalifornia.

they'd still know you were there though.  what w/ google earth and what not.

----------


## Meatwasp

We live exactly the way you describe. Everyone their children and dogs knows about us. 
The fire marshal won't come down to check on our property  for fire hazzards as it is a long trail to walk. Ha!
As long as you pay taxes  don't raise pot or poach deer there is not too much to worry about.

----------


## FunkBuddha

> We live exactly the way you describe. Everyone their children and dogs knows about us. 
> The fire marshal won't come down to check on our property  for fire hazzards as it is a long trail to walk. Ha!
> As long as you pay taxes  don't raise pot or poach deer there is not too much to worry about.


I just want to be left the hell alone.

----------


## Meatwasp

I know exactly how you feel!!!!

----------


## Meatwasp

Way up in the mountains there is a piece of private property and some guy lived in the house for several years by himself and he went nuts. I still see him in town talking to himself.. Lol

----------


## Penners

> I just want to be left the hell alone.


bump +10,000

----------


## Conza88

Why you paying taxes to begin with?

Couldn't you sell everything.. purchase some land deep deep in the unchartered territory (unfrequented) buy it with cash, then live out your days in glory?

----------


## soapmistress

Watch the movie Garbage Warrior.  That's what this guy did and even though he was waaaaaay out in the desert of New Mexico, they shut him down for living in housing without electric and water hookups.  He wasn't "up to code" even though he didn't need those services.

----------


## Meatwasp

We have our own water power and a stream.  In fact we live quite comfortably now, not when we first moved here. But those were the days I was so free and happy (Still am) after living in Southern Calif with close neighbors and smog Ugh

----------


## Meatwasp

funk did you ever think of Alaska. There are many people living unrestricted  there?

----------


## satchelmcqueen

im sure the "code violation" would be used against you, but do it anyway if you can.

----------


## Dr.3D

Delete

----------


## FunkBuddha

> funk did you ever think of Alaska. There are many people living unrestricted  there?


I'm not built for Alaska. It's beautiful, but it'd be hard for me to live self-sufficient there.

----------


## aravoth

Dude!



Build one of these, and hide the entrance, no one will ever find you.

----------


## thegood_dr

> Dude!
> 
> 
> 
> Build one of these, and hide the entrance, no one will ever find you.


better build it w/ glass (invisible to heat detection).

----------


## WRellim

> Way up in the mountains there is a piece of private property and some guy lived in the house for several years by himself and he went nuts. I still see him in town talking to himself.. Lol


Now.. quit talkin 'bout me behind my back an all!

----------


## Meatwasp

> Dude!
> 
> 
> 
> Build one of these, and hide the entrance, no one will ever find you.


Is that your hideaway Aravoth?   That is so neat.   We found a cave up on the side of a very steep mountain. My sons  climbed it  and said it was a big roomy cave so in a pinch----------Ha

----------


## Mesogen

What could you do to get a homestead exemption? 

I know some people that live deep in the woods (well there are other people living nearby) but they have a well and a generator for electricity that they share with their neighbors (who are family) and they just own the land outright, as in they don't pay property taxes, because they have a homestead exemption. But the family has owned the land for over 100 years.

----------


## pcosmar

It would have been possible some years ago, but less so today.
I live in a very rural area. Not "off the grid" but out in the sticks.
We have aircraft surveillance, The assessor has come by, and a census worker walked up my driveway (1/4 mile) in the winter.
Your desire for privacy would be considered suspicious activity.
Your home would be called a "compound".
You would end up as  story on the evening News.

 "if you have nothing to hide, why do you need privacy."

----------


## Jacob

MMM,. isnt the land title regstered in someones name?

i hear the Lakotah indians are seceeding from the US? Option?  Or maybe...costa rica.?..Vote with your feet!

----------


## FunkBuddha

> It would have been possible some years ago, but less so today.
> I live in a very rural area. Not "off the grid" but out in the sticks.
> We have aircraft surveillance, The assessor has come by, and a census worker walked up my driveway (1/4 mile) in the winter.
> Your desire for privacy would be considered suspicious activity.
> Your home would be called a "compound".
> You would end up as  story on the evening News.
> 
>  "if you have nothing to hide, why do you need privacy."


Do you have an address though? If you have a postal address it would be easy for them to know there is a residence there. I don't have much faith in the intelligence and work ethic of our bureaucrats. I don't think they'd actually go looking for you unless they heard you were doing something.

I know that being "free" is in the mind, but it's hard to put freedom into practice when you have to worry about neighbors and bureaucrats meddling in your business. Maybe I need to finally read Harry Browne's book "How I found freedom in an unfree world".

----------


## pcosmar

I live as "free" as I am able. That is why I support Ron Paul. 

I  have an address and am not trying to live off grid, but I have lived that way in the past.
It is getting more difficult these days. there is surveillance everywhere. 

Even here.

----------


## Bruno

> Why you paying taxes to begin with?
> 
> Couldn't you sell everything.. purchase some land deep deep in the unchartered territory (unfrequented) buy it with cash, then live out your days in glory?


You can purchase land with cash, that is fine, but it is still on the tax rolls for the county where you purchase it.  That means, should you not pay your taxes, your property can eventually be seized for non-payment. 

Unfortuantely, due to property taxes in America, you never really "own" your land.  You are essentially leasing it from the local governments.  Don't believe it?  Try to not pay your property taxes and see what happens.

----------


## pcosmar

The only way I see it as possible is to not "own" anything.
If you lived deep in the wilderness and avoided contact with any authorities, or anyone that may report your presence.
Not easy to do.
Doesn't sound like much of a life.

I traveled the country some years back. I had no ID and used an alias for 7 years.
Not an easy life then, much harder now.

----------


## driller80545

Much, much easier to live under the radar in Central America where no one particular cares what you are doing/

----------


## Mesogen

> Much, much easier to live under the radar in Central America where no one particular cares what you are doing/


Won't some local thug want some protection money?

----------


## Roxi

have you guys been to the ozark mountain hills in southern missouri/ northern arkansas?  there are literally thousands of locations off the beaten path to park your car and walk 3 miles up into the hills and camp for months with out ever seeing a soul... as long as you move your car once a day or so your fine....

also.... in arkansas you can park your houseboat out on the water anchored close to a shore or bluffline for 30 days.... there is also no restriction on how far you move the boat every 30 days....

----------


## MsDoodahs

> Maybe I need to finally read Harry Browne's book "How I found freedom in an unfree world".


Yes, you do.

In fact, everyone should read that book.

----------


## Matt Collins

> You can purchase land with cash, that is fine, but it is still on the tax rolls for the county where you purchase it.  That means, should you not pay your taxes, your property can eventually be seized for non-payment. 
> 
> Unfortuantely, due to property taxes in America, you never really "own" your land.  You are essentially leasing it from the local governments.  Don't believe it?  Try to not pay your property taxes and see what happens.


Yes - learn and understand something called "allodial title" Michael Badnarik discusses it.

----------


## Acala

They say that Amos Moses was Cajun.
He lived by himself in the swamp
Hunted Alligators for a living
He just knocked 'em in the head with a stump

Well, the Sheriff got wind that Amos
Was in the swamp tracking alligator skin.
So he snuck in the swamp, gonna get the boy.
But he never come out again.
Well, I wonder where the Louisiana Sheriff went to?
You can sure get lost in the Louisiana Bayou!

----------


## Sandra

I don't know if I would be happy hiding all of my life. ....and hiding from what exactly?

----------


## Acala

> i don't know if i would be happy hiding all of my life. ....and hiding from what exactly?



them!!!!!!!!

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

It isn't hiding, its wanting to be left alone.

The property tax would be the one thing holding people back i'm sure BUT besides that you could be 99% off grid until we can get the property tax removed.....

Many things need to change in this country for us to be Free again, not GIVEN RIGHTS but have our liberties that we are BORN WITH returned 100%

----------


## TruckinMike

I pay more in property taxes than I do in income taxes. And yes I do have a job!

I feel like a slave to my county... they increased my taxes by 2.5!

TMike

----------


## moostraks

> have you guys been to the ozark mountain hills in southern missouri/ northern arkansas?  there are literally thousands of locations off the beaten path to park your car and walk 3 miles up into the hills and camp for months with out ever seeing a soul... as long as you move your car once a day or so your fine....
> 
> also.... in arkansas you can park your houseboat out on the water anchored close to a shore or bluffline for 30 days.... there is also no restriction on how far you move the boat every 30 days....


http://www.ozarkland.com/ Link for property in general area you are speaking of, I want to get the camp you have to hike into!!!! I am a homesteader at heart but have to move to a city right now. We bought a foreclosed home outright and hope to work towards property in the middle of the woods in the near future....

----------


## Ozwest

Assuming scarce authorities know of your existence.

I would recommend a front end loader or dozer on a property.

Preferably a loader.

----------


## Ozwest

You can block access to your property quickly, and sculpture your property to suit your requirements.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> You can block access to your property quickly, and sculpture your property to suit your requirements.


 That is what I will be doing as well. I want to dig a ditch around my property and then put the wall on the other side to make my "wall" seem larger then it really is and still stop vehicle issues that may come up. If I can figure a way to "float it" then I will do that as well but not sure how needed that would be OR able depending on flowing water around the property.

----------


## Ozwest

> That is what I will be doing as well. I want to dig a ditch around my property and then put the wall on the other side to make my "wall" seem larger then it really is and still stop vehicle issues that may come up. If I can figure a way to "float it" then I will do that as well but not sure how needed that would be OR able depending on flowing water around the property.


Depends on access to water.

Obviously, you don't want to be connected to mains.

Get the grades to your trenches correct (easy) and set up simple gate valves.

Feed your stock, and surprise intruders.

I'm not a survivalist.

But...

----------


## Ozwest

You need a dam, or a bore. or stream.

But *always* have a holding tank.

----------


## TomtheTinker

Bet your ass everyone of us are on a file.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

Yep. There's no such thing as off the grid.

----------


## Working Poor

bump

----------


## Indy Vidual

off the grid does exist, but isn't always pretty (i.e. Slab City)




> Yep. There's no such thing as off the grid.



*Writer Evan Ratliff Tried to Vanish: Here’s What Happened*
...
The idea for the contest started with a series of questions, foremost among them: How hard is it to vanish in the digital age?
...
...I wasn’t going off the grid, dropping out to live in a cabin. Rather, I would actually try to drop my life and pick up another...

Good story / Draws you in / Worth the time to read...
http://www.wired.com/vanish/2009/11/ff_vanish2/all/
Note: He takes some spending money out of the ATM right before _"vanishing"_, but it's still a worthy story.

----------


## KevinR

> off the grid does exist, but isn't always pretty (i.e. Slab City)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Writer Evan Ratliff Tried to Vanish: Here’s What Happened*
> ...
> The idea for the contest started with a series of questions, foremost among them: How hard is it to vanish in the digital age?
> ...
> ...


Amazing story, thanks!

----------


## DamianTV

Its a lot less difficult when you havent attracted attention to your name.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Can still be done, but getting next to impossible in the US.

Don't pay property tax, you'll find out who *really* owns your land.

We're all just serfs and squatters, existing only so long as it pleases the local feudal lords.

----------


## Athan

> Sure you'd have to pay property taxes, but a tax assessor isn't going to go walk the land to find out if you built house or not would they? I suppose if you got caught there would be big problems, but that never stopped me before.
> 
> I would greatly appreciate it if someone would come along and put a hole in this theory of mine before I go and get myself into trouble.


I'm just giving some information by the way. I neither egging you on to doing it or am trying to promote any illegal activity. I am giving you this info as you may be worried about a SHTF scenario and your family's security and may need this as secondary plan for living arrangements if things do seem to be getting unstable. I don't recommend this to anybody just trying to dodge taxes in their main home. You want low taxes? Live in humble living arrangements and make sure it looks like a poor value improvement. Avoding property taxes will cause you to recieve a penalty of have back taxes placed on your asses and lawyers waiting for your money immediately if you get caught. Your going to get REAL pissed about doing it later.

That said:

Appraisers don't need to visit your home. (I used to be one.) They can review and have access to arial photos that are always taken. Using programs for gauging measurements from point a to b, appraisers can make estimations using photos taken yearly of county property. I think the only thing that could prevent them noticing (if you would really like to know and would provide me shelter if SHTF lol) is a camouflagued homestead home that has no permits taken out. No electrical or ANY permits for any company. Permits is the first flag given that a property is recieving improvements to local appraisers and officials. If you want extra shade for your home, I think real camouflaged netting to cover the top of your home would prevent any appraiser from having an accurate knowledge of not only whether there is a permanent structure there but also the measurements of an improvment if there is somehow someone reporting it.

----------


## cjm

> That is what I will be doing as well. I want to dig a ditch around my property and then put the wall on the other side to make my "wall" seem larger then it really is and still stop vehicle issues that may come up. If I can figure a way to "float it" then I will do that as well but not sure how needed that would be OR able depending on flowing water around the property.


A wall would be expensive and noticeable.  You don't want to draw that kind of attention.  Make your ditch seem as natural as possible and use whatever thick thorny bushes that naturally grow in your area for your wall.  Fortresses draw attention from everyone.  Impassable terrain, not so much.

----------


## Captain Shays

> What would happen if a person owned say 200 acres of land in the middle of nowhere in a wooded area and built an off-grid sustainable settlement of sorts. The person always used a P.O. box for mail and never had electricity, sewer, gas or phone run to the property. Would this person ever be noticed? 
> 
> Sure you'd have to pay property taxes, but a tax assessor isn't going to go walk the land to find out if you built house or not would they? I suppose if you got caught there would be big problems, but that never stopped me before.
> 
> I would greatly appreciate it if someone would come along and put a hole in this theory of mine before I go and get myself into trouble.


http://www.hardenedstructures.com/interactive.php

----------

