# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Justin Amash Forum >  House to vote on Amash's NSA Amendment on Wednesday (update: defeated 205 to 217)

## tsai3904

Call your Congressman today and ask for their support of the Amash Amendment to HR 2397 that would prohibit the NSA's blanket collection of phone records of persons who are not subjects of investigations.

http://house.gov/representatives/find/

Here's the text of the Amash Amendment:




> None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to execute a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court order pursuant to section 501 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861) that does not include the following sentence: ‘‘This Order limits the collection of any tangible things (including telephone numbers dialed, telephone numbers of incoming calls, and the duration of calls) that may be authorized to be collected pursuant to this Order to those tangible things that pertain to a person who is the subject of an investigation described in section 501 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1861).’’.



*Update:*  According to Amash's spokesman, debate on Amash amendment will happen Wednesday night with vote on Wednesday night or Thursday morning.

*Update 2:*  Here's the White House statement opposing the Amash amendment:




> In light of the recent unauthorized disclosures, the President has said that he welcomes a debate about how best to simultaneously safeguard both our national security and the privacy of our citizens.  The Administration has taken various proactive steps to advance this debate including the President’s meeting with the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, his public statements on the disclosed programs, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence’s release of its own public statements, ODNI General Counsel Bob Litt’s speech at Brookings, and ODNI’s decision to declassify and disclose publicly that the Administration filed an application with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.  We look forward to continuing to discuss these critical issues with the American people and the Congress.
> 
> However, we oppose the current effort in the House to hastily dismantle one of our Intelligence Community’s counterterrorism tools.  This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process.  We urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment, and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a reasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...mash-amendment

*Update 3:*  Fact sheet on the Amash Amendment:  http://amash.house.gov/speech/amash-...ent-fact-sheet

*Update 4:*  Justin Amash talking about his amendment on a radio show earlier today:  http://stationcaster.com/player_skin...6781&f=1664251

*Update 5:*  Live blog on updates of the Amash Amendment:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...veillance-live

*Update 6:*  Myth vs Fact on Amash Amendment:  http://amash.house.gov/sites/amash.h...shMythFact.pdf

*Update 7:*  Amash Amendment was defeated 205 - 217.  Here is the roll call vote: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml

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## EBounding

Here's a list of all the amendments (Amash's is # 101):

http://rules.house.gov/bill/hr-2397

Massie's amendment to stop foreign aid to Egypt is also in order, so be sure to ask them to support that amendment (#105) as well.

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## Brian4Liberty

Had to call twice. First time, the person (staffer) who would know was not there (I left a "Yes" recommendation message). Second time, first person who answered said "they're going to vote Yes".

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## surf

we're up to #17 or so on the amendment list. still time to call. this is huge. I've got to go to work so please keep this bumped w/acknowledgements that you've called.

+ reps available. I actually had to pay for my call using a landline (look it up, kids)

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## JCDenton0451

> FreedomWorks is key scoring Amash's amendment:
> 
> *Key Vote YES on the Fourth Amendment*
> 
> Dear FreedomWorks member, 
> 
> As one of our million-plus FreedomWorks members nationwide, I urge you  to contact your representative and urge him or her to vote YES on the  Rep. Justin Amashs (R-MI) amendment to H.R. 2397, the Department of  Defense Appropriations bill. The amendment would withhold funding to the  National Security Agencys (NSA) surveillance activities being  conducted without a warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance  Act (FISA). It is important to ensure that taxpayer funds are not  unconstitutionally being used to spy on American citizens who arent  currently under investigation.
> 
> The NSAs warrantless monitoring and data gathering has been going on  for too long. This is a direct violation of the Fourth Amendment that  guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. Innocent Americans  should not be treated like criminals when they have not done anything  suspicious. The Amash amendment would uphold the Constitution and  protect these innocent Americans right to privacy by defunding the  NSAs warrantless spying.
> ...


Whoa, this is a bold move for them.

I'm impressed.

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## Carlybee

Can someone tweet it to this guy ..he has a ton of Dems on his twitter feed and he is anti nsa..anti Repub too so use Conyers name. https://twitter.com/AngryDemdotcom.   I cant tweet from this phone for some reason.

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## jbauer

Done, Black - R/TN D6

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## Brian4Liberty

Tweeted:




> I called my Rep, did you? http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/mki...urth-amendment … #DefendTheConstitution #TeaParty #NSAScandal
> 
> https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/359780619657547777

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## jct74

here's a website you can send out to get people to call

http://defundthensa.com/

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## CaseyJones

bump

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## afwjam

Called my Congresswomen.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Bump.

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## Carlybee

Called and emailed

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## Carlybee

Article about Amash and this fight from Justin Raimondo http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...ainst-the-nsa/

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## Brian4Liberty

> Article about Amash and this fight from Justin Raimondo http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...ainst-the-nsa/


Call your reps!




> The stakes are high – higher than they’ve ever been. And libertarians have a key role to play in this unfolding drama. The libertarian congressional leadership has taken the initiative, with Rep. Amash and Sen. Rand Paul both introducing legislation to roll back the NSA and stand up for the Bill of Rights. Nothing less than the future of the republic is at stake. Which is why grassroots libertarians, and the growing number of liberals and conservatives who never knew we were so close to total tyranny, must back them up. The vote on the LIBERT-E Act is likely coming up on Wednesday – that’s tomorrow. So please – call your congressional representatives.
> 
> Don’t know what number to call? Find out here.
> 
> Listen to me: this is important. When I heard about this effort – and Amash’s procedural victory in getting this bill on the congressional calendar – I dropped my previous plan to write a column on another topic and insisted they post this one early, so we can get a good jump on the vote and really have an effect. When you call, specific that you are urging a vote for H.R. 2399, an amendment to the defense appropriations bill, that would scale back the powers of the NSA. Be nice, and be brief.

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## tsai3904

White House issues statement opposing Amash amendment.  Will post full statement once I find it.

I don't think it's common of the White House to issue statements on amendments.

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## tsai3904

White House statement:




> THE WHITE HOUSE
> Office of the Press Secretary
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> July 23, 2013
> 
> Statement by the Press Secretary on the Amash Amendment
> 
> In light of the recent unauthorized disclosures, the President has said that he welcomes a debate about how best to simultaneously safeguard both our national security and the privacy of our citizens.  The Administration has taken various proactive steps to advance this debate including the President’s meeting with the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, his public statements on the disclosed programs, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence’s release of its own public statements, ODNI General Counsel Bob Litt’s speech at Brookings, and ODNI’s decision to declassify and disclose publicly that the Administration filed an application with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.  We look forward to continuing to discuss these critical issues with the American people and the Congress.
> 
> However, we oppose the current effort in the House to hastily dismantle one of our Intelligence Community’s counterterrorism tools.  This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process.  We urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment, and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a reasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation.


http://pastebin.com/RF5U59N0

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## CaseyJones

> White House statement:
> 
> 
> 
> http://pastebin.com/RF5U59N0


added to the Front Page post and bumped it on the front to

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## liberty2897

Not that I believe what the NSA Freedom of Information Act officer Cindy Blacker has to say in this article,  but might be good to use their own words against them.




> "There's no central method to search an email at this time with the way our records are set up, unfortunately," NSA Freedom of Information Act officer Cindy Blacker told me last week.
> The system is a little antiquated and archaic," she added.





> A few days after filing the request, Blacker called, asking me to narrow my request since the FOIA office can search emails only person by person," rather than in bulk. The NSA has more than 30,000 employees.


https://www.propublica.org/article/n...rch-own-emails

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## EBounding

> However, we oppose the current effort in the House to hastily dismantle one of our Intelligence Community’s counterterrorism tools. This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process. We urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment, and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a reasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation.



  What an arrogant ***** 

Follow up with your Reps first thing in the morning!

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## Roxi

I have called a couple times this week and sent a few emails. I spoke with a nice man this morning who said they had received hundreds of calls over the last few days from SW Missourians and that Billy Long was committed to standing with his voters. We'll see what happens. I've met Billy in person, and am very unimpressed.

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## tsai3904

Amash is speaking at Heritage's Conversations with Conservatives right now:

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/07/24/...ves-july-2013/

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## jct74

> *Justin Amash claims strong support for NSA amendment*
> 
> By GINGER GIBSON | 7/24/13 12:06 PM EDT
> 
> Rep. Justin Amash said he has strong support for his amendment to the Defense appropriations bill that would defend the NSA program that collects billions of Americans phone records.
> 
> Its very broad and its broad because the American people support it, Amash (R-Mich.) said at a panel discussion with House conservatives Wednesday morning.
> 
> In unusual form, a small debate broke out about the amendment during the monthly Conversation with Conservatives event. Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), who serves on the House Intelligence Committee, was the only member of the panel to say that she would be voting against Amashs amendment.
> ...


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ent-94674.html

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## georgiaboy

looking forward to the roll call on this one!

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## surf

just watched a one-minute speech by the rep (Daines) from Montana urging everyone to support Amash's amendment and citing the 4th amendment.

this is one of the biggest votes in years folks. probably going to get kicked in the head again, but I have 'hope' for 'change.' call your reps.

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## FSP-Rebel

https://twitter.com/8Atlas2/status/360075408667983873

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## FSP-Rebel

https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/s...43346355433473

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## FSP-Rebel

https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/s...39073592778752

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## jct74

Guardian UK has a live blog set up for the lead up to the vote on Amash's amendment, it says debate on the defense authorization bill is scheduled to begin at 2pm.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...veillance-live

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## chudrockz

Bumparoo. I'll be sure to call Tim Walz (D, MN-1) right after work!

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## Brian4Liberty

> Amash is speaking at Heritage's Conversations with Conservatives right now:
> 
> http://blog.heritage.org/2013/07/24/...ves-july-2013/


Supposedly, Bachmann is taking Obama's side on this.

I sent a tweet her direction:




> @MicheleBachmann I urge a "yes" vote on the Amash amendment. Protect #4A now, then we can explore legal and Constitutional options.
> 
> https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360074398587301888

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## Brian4Liberty

The following article on the Amash Amendment is very good. Pass it along:




> The Amash amendment: a vital shield from unwarranted NSA surveillance
> 
> Congress must use this crucial vote on the NSA's data dragnet to protect our privacy from the agency's intent to 'collect it all'
> 
> There's an extremely important vote taking place in Congress Wednesday 24 July that, if successful, would shut down the program under which the NSA indiscriminately collects the phone records of literally every US citizen and resident. The bipartisan amendment, proposed by Representative Justin Amash (Republican, Michigan), would forbid the NSA from expending any of its funds on the bulk collection of Americans' records, including our phone records collected pursuant to the program revealed in June by this newspaper.
> 
> Under that program, the NSA has forced American telecommunications providers  like AT&T, Sprint and Verizon  to turn over details about every single call that every single American makes "on an ongoing daily basis". The program is not limited to suspected terrorists, foreign agents or even everyday criminals. The NSA is collecting everything.
> 
> Did you call someone today? If so, the NSA has a record of it.
> ...



Tweeted:




> Amash Amendment is targeted and surgical. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...a-surveillance  #DefendTheConstitution #Protect4A #StandWithAmash #TeaParty #tcot #tlot
> 
> https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360083314775818241





> The importance of the Amash Amendment: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...a-surveillance  #Protect4A #DefendTheConstitution #StandWithAmash #TeaParty #tcot #tlot
> 
> https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360087133723164672

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## jct74

> *Amash NSA Amendment Spells Trouble for White House*
> 
> By Steven Dennis
> Posted at 12:03 p.m. July 24
> 
> The House is expected to vote later today on Rep. Justin Amashs amendment to defund the National Security Agencys bulk collection of phone records of millions of Americans  and the White House very much wants it to lose.
> 
> A rare statement Tuesday night from White House Press Secretary Jay Carney slamming the Michigan Republicans amendment was sent to reporters, and the agency is vigorously lobbying members to oppose it.
> 
> ...


read more:
http://blogs.rollcall.com/goppers/am...r-white-house/

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## CaseyJones

Drudge has an article about it up on the top right column 

http://washingtonexaminer.com/white-...rticle/2533418




> The White House took the rare step of releasing a statement opposing an amendment to a House bill Tuesday night, taking aim at a measure that would shut down significant parts of the National Security Agency’s surveillance activities.
> 
> In the statement, White House spokesman Jay Carney accused Republican lawmakers of trying to “hastily dismantle one of our Intelligence Community’s counterterrorism tools” and said the “blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open or deliberative process.”
> 
> The House is preparing to vote on an amendment, written by Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., that would cut off funds to the NSA if it collects data on individuals who are not under investigation — a move that would effectively shut down the sweeping Internet and phone data collection programs that have been revealed in news reports
> 
> After hearing that the amendment would be given a vote as part of the Defense Appropriations bill Tuesday afternoon, the White House scrambled to try to defeat it. NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander headed up to Capitol Hill on Tuesday for a question and answer session with lawmakers in a classified, members-only briefing.
> 
> “We urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a seasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation,” Carney said.
> ...

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## Brett85

I called my rep, even though there's no chance at all that he'll vote for Amash's amendment.  He was the rep who went on Stossel's show to argue in favor of the NSA program after Amash had argued against it.  But, I guess he should hear from his constituents anyway.

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## tsai3904

Letter by former Administration officials opposing the Amash Amendment:

http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/...SAPrograms.pdf

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## surf

> We are convinced that both programs are vitally important to our national security. The Director of the NSA, Gen. Keith Alexander, has publicly attested that these programs have been *instrumental in helping to prevent attacks* on the United States and its allies, including the plot to bomb the New York City subway.
> ...
> Respectfully,
> Michael B. Mukasey
> Michael V. Hayden
> Alberto R. Gonzales
> Michael Chertoff
> John D. Negroponte
> Porter J. Goss
> ...


that's a lot of criminals for one letter. that's right, "general" Alexander, they're criminals.

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## jct74

discussing Amash amendment now on CSPAN with reporter from Roll Call

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## CaseyJones

bump for coming debate on this amendment

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## HOLLYWOOD

> discussing Amash amendment now on CSPAN with reporter from Roll Call


Yeah... you can tell this CQ Roll Call writer Tim Starks is not a Bill of Rights or US Constitutions reporter.

ref. *NSA/Obama closed door meeting yesterday about the Amash Amendment*



> CQ's Starks, "There's been a very very big administration push against this amendment. This was, this was a meeting specifically called because of thee Amash amendment. And the, NSA director (Perjuror/Liar) Keith Alexander, was trying to inform law makers about the effectiveness of the program as he sees, umm, and inform them of the dangerous consequences would be of this program going away.Um, They, It's unclear how many minds they won over with that, it's a part of a VERY coordinated push, the White House has spoken publicly, against this amendment.  Which is a very rare thing for them to do. Past Bush administration officials have been talking about, how ending this program would, jeopardize us, make us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks. So, it's a very big push by the Obama administration and even by past Bush administration officials.


C-SPAN moderator, "Michigan Congressman Justin Amash, has an amendment to this Defense spending bill, that would end* N*ational *S*ecurity *A*gency's surveillance program. What is he trying to accomplish?"

CQ Starks,



> He is of the mind, that this phone record collection program is, is ah, sorta a Unconstitutional violation of America's Right to privacy. Um, becaue the record collects so many records, it's not necessarily going after, uh, everyone who might be suspected of terrorism. The idea is to you know, get enough records, so when you need them, you can as the NSA access the records, you access them for an investigation. but they say, They Have To Collect All The Records to be able to go through them when they need them.  So, Ahhh, there's a big contingent uh, in the House, uh, some liberals, some Tea Party or Libertarian minded conservatives, to would think that is a dangerous program, for American's privacy


C-SPAN moderator, "Well, as thge amendment comes to the floor, its got bipartisan support for it... as it comes to the floor. But when it comes time for votes, who have you heard, that is, now supporting it... uh, when the vote comes up?"

CQ Starks,



> You know, it's an interesting mesh-mash, this is group that big in developing over the last few years. They're people who uh, maybe some stance conservatives more worried about president Obama doing these kinds of things than president Bush was.  There's every indication this was a program that's been going on  for awhile. Umm, there's, there's those kinds conservatives, and there's other conservatives, who are of what I said, the Tea Party ,or libertarian persuasion and then there are liberals who during the Bush administration, and now during the Obama administration, have been worried about uh, national security programs that are over stretching  and STARTING TO INVADE civil  liberties in , disproportionate to  relation of how effective they are in stopping terrorist attacks

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## tommyrp12

I just sent a e-mail to joe kennedy. i'm pretty sure he does not care.

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## Carlybee

I didnt get a response back from Culbertson

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## tsai3904

ACLU, EFF and other organizations are hosting a Reddit AMA on surveillance and the Amash Amendment:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...fight_for_the/

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## jct74

> Sources in the House tell Brietbart News that the vote is expected between 4 and 6pm Wednesday.  The weight of the Obama Administration has been deployed to defeat this amendment.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...-on-nsa-spying

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## thehungarian

Anyone know what time the vote is approximately?

Edit - nevermind

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## tsai3904

There's still many amendments ahead of Amash's.  If all of them take the full allotted time, debate will begin around 5:15 pm ET with the Nugent Amendment, which is the establishment version that does nothing.

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## tsai3904

Chad Pergram ‏@ChadPergram
Hse Minority Ldr Pelosi, who was top D on Hse Intel on 9/11, spoke out against Amash amdt to curtail domestic spying at caucus mtg today.

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## jct74

> Justin Amash ‏@repjustinamash
> Thx to my many colleagues--and all of you at home--who support my #NSA amendment! We will defend the #4thAmendment. *Vote in early evening.*


https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/s...21306408165376

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## Tod

called Bob Gibbs, OH-7 earlier today.

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## jct74

> *House Conservatives Say Amash Amendment Has a Fighting Chance*
> 
> By  Betsy Woodruff
> July 24, 2013 4:06 PM
> 
> In the next few hours, the House will vote on an amendment from Republican Justin Amash of Michigan that would curtail the powers given to the NSA by the Patriot Act. And its backers think it has a shot at passage.
> 
> When I asked Representative Tim Huelskamp, who says he will vote for the amendment, about its prospects, he said, Good question, its hard to tell. I think theres some chances on that, but well see. It will be an interesting vote.
> 
> ...


read more:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...betsy-woodruff

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## jct74

says at bottom of screen on CSPAN that debate on Amash amendment will be at approximately 5:15 pm ET

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## tsai3904

Massie amendment on Egypt being debated now.  Afterwards, its the Nugent alternative NSA amendment then Amash's amendment.

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## Barrex

> Letter by former Administration officials opposing the Amash Amendment:
> 
> http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/...SAPrograms.pdf


ROFL.

Follow the money: http://chertoffgroup.com/bios/michael-hayden.php 

How much does he earn from  it?

duckduckgo their names and everything becomes clear.

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## chudrockz

> there are a couple of places to send a pre-written email http://act.demandprogress.org/letter/nsa_amash/ (from Huffpo - I'm probably on their email list now) and cfl. my gal's a democrat so I figured Huffpo may carry more weight than previous cfl message.
> 
> Amash and Massie - kickin' neocon ass in '13


That's a pretty easy way to send an email. I just did so, and shared the link on Facebook. Going to look up Tim Walz's office # now and make the call!

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## TheTyke

Called!!

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## tsai3904

Myth vs Fact of Amash Amendment:

http://amash.house.gov/sites/amash.h...shMythFact.pdf

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## chudrockz

Alright!!

I just called the DC office of Congressman Tim Walz (D, MN-1)! The staffer I talked to was really nice. I told him I really hope Mr. Walz votes FOR Amendments # 101 and 105. He told me "we're getting alot of calls on those"! 

On a side note, I have an admission to make. This is the first time that I can remember that I actually called a Congress Critter's office. I send letters once in awhile, and send emails ALL the time, but I don't think I've ever called. It wasn't nearly as traumatic as I thought it would be.

Might have to make a habit of it! <g>

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## tsai3904

Debate should begin around 5:30 pm ET.  The first debate will be on the Nugent Amendment which does nothing then it's the Amash Amendment.

You can watch live here:
http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/

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## Brian4Liberty

> Alright!!
> 
> I just called the DC office of Congressman Tim Walz (D, MN-1)! The staffer I talked to was really nice. I told him I really hope Mr. Walz votes FOR Amendments # 101 and 105. He told me "we're getting alot of calls on those"! 
> 
> On a side note, I have an admission to make. This is the first time that I can remember that I actually called a Congress Critter's office. I send letters once in awhile, and send emails ALL the time, but I don't think I've ever called. It wasn't nearly as traumatic as I thought it would be.
> 
> Might have to make a habit of it! <g>


Yeah, it's pretty easy, and far more effective than most methods.

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## chudrockz

> Debate should begin around 5:30 pm ET.  The first debate will be on the Nugent Amendment which does nothing then it's the Amash Amendment.
> 
> You can watch live here:
> http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/


Thanks for the link. I got rid of cable a few years ago so I rarely watch much of anything, but I'm going to keep an eye on that tonight via the laptop.

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## tsai3904

Amash on Fox News discussing his amendment:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/256422880...a-surveillance

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## EBounding

> Amash on Fox News discussing his amendment:
> 
> http://video.foxnews.com/v/256422880...a-surveillance


I can't stand that limey host.

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## KEEF

Did people just applaud after Bachman?

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## TaftFan

> OMG Michelle Bachman, a fellow Minnesotan who went to the RNC with all Ron Paul supporters, is speaking against the Amash amendment!! I hope she moves!!


She's retiring.

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## chudrockz

Jesus H. Christ, Michelle Bachman is gone, thank God. She was gonna make me drink more tonight than I had previously intended!

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## chudrockz

> She's retiring.


Yeah good riddance, I thought she had said she was going to move out of the state if something happened, can't recall. I wish she would.

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## thehungarian

Did not expect Sensenbrenner to be a Yes. Good on him.

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## TaftFan

> Did not expect Sensenbrenner to be a Yes. Good on him.


He brings a lot of weight too, since he wrote the Patriot act.

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## KEEF

Mulvaney, good for you.

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## eduardo89

Tube of Justin on Fox today:

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## TaftFan

> Mulvaney, good for you.


He's an original cosponsor I think.

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## thehungarian

Does anyone know the chances of this passing? Some heavy hitters on both sides.

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## HOLLYWOOD

Zoe Lufgren... a-Mahish amendment  not Pennsylvania AMISH

Did ANYONE notice the NEOCONS are now up? Let's get some quotes on Political Kabuki Theater

Isreal Firster *Ileana Ros-Lehtinen(R-FL)* is running the Gavel
*
Mike NEOCON Rogers(R-MI)* (Intelligence Committee Chairman) that continuously attacked Snowden on every corporate media channel. Frigin clown is quoting James Madison. Man, Rogers has balls to lie right on the floor with a huge audience.

*Michele Bachmann(R-MN)* is BAT$#@! CRAZY "The #1 duty of the American government is Safety"  


lol... *Ted Poe( R-TX)*... 4th Amendment... Stay Out of Our Lives! ... And That's the way it is.  


*Joseph Cotton** (R-AR)* ... Strong urge opposition to the Amash amendment, WE ARE AT WAR, repeated... This Neocon $#@!er needs to be primaried

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## american.swan

Huge. Can you imagine? 

"i wrote the patriot act and I'm supporting this amendment. "

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## chudrockz

Never heard of Rep. Ted Poe of Texas before. I like him now.

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## KEEF

Oh, I hope this passes...

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## KEEF

Gabbard is kinda cute.

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## chudrockz

This woman pronounces "Hawaii" just like my wife, who is not from there. Do I have to stop making fun of her now?

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## KEEF

Cotton, please tell me what these terrorist attacks were going to be.

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## chudrockz

Oh good, the "program is constitutional" according to courts. What a $#@!in' SHOCK that government agents approve of what the government is doing. :P

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## chudrockz

Rep. Tom Cotton needs to be primaried.

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## KEEF

I hate hearing that needle and hay stack analogy.  It is like saying, we need to fix things are $#@!ed up, but how do we fix things that are $#@!ed up unless we $#@! some $#@! up first.

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## thehungarian

Cotton: "We are saving you. Why don't you want me to save you?!?"

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## KEEF

WTF?????

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## chudrockz

Hey Tommy Cotton:  No, we are NOT at war. You $#@!ing dough head. We are NOT (NOT) at war. Congress has not declared $#@!. And you need to be retired.

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## KEEF

My god it is the GOP convention all over again.

----------


## Brett85

When is Amash's amendment actually going to be voted on?

----------


## chudrockz

So when do we get a recorded vote on amendment 100 (or 101)?

----------


## thehungarian

It still just $#@!ing blows my mind that voice votes are a thing.

----------


## chudrockz

> My god it is the GOP convention all over again.


That's for damn sure.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KEEF again.

----------


## KEEF

> When is Amash's amendment actually going to be voted on?


It just got voted down with a yea and nea.  But the electronic vote and count vote are coming up.

----------


## Barrex

> When is Amash's amendment actually going to be voted on?

----------


## chudrockz

I'm all sorts of fired up tonight about C-SPAN. Go figure! I haven't even watched anything on it in years now.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Amash requested a recorded vote. They will be voting in 15 minutes.

----------


## KEEF

I like the callers so far.

----------


## american.swan

Amash should say in 1775 we fought a revolution. A revolution against needles in hey stacks. Against just these sorts of searches. Were they wrong? If they were wrong to fight for liberty, then i have brought a picture of the queen of England today. Who would like to apologise for the revolution and subject the United States to the parliament of her majesty the queen england.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Rep. Tom Cotton needs to be primaried.


Damn straight! Who is our liberty candidate in his District?

----------


## KEEF

HEY POWERS THAT BE, fear is worse than death because it holds the mind hostage...

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Call-In C-SPAN LIVE*

Democrats: 202-585-3885
Republican: 202-585-3996
Independents: 202-585-3887

TWITTER Hastag:   *#NSA*

----------


## TaftFan



----------


## Brett85

The bad thing is it's likely that Cotton could be the next Senator from Arkansas.  We need to focus on preventing him from getting to the Senate.  There's not much of a chance we can actually defeat him for his house seat.

----------


## chudrockz

OMG this caller is great!!

----------


## LibertyEagle

> It just got voted down with a yea and nea.  But the electronic vote and count vote are coming up.


Please tell me you are kidding.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Thank you Edward Snowden.  You awoke many people.

----------


## KEEF

Caller Tom from Louisiana is awesome!

----------


## chudrockz

> Please tell me you are kidding.


That's what the chair ruled. We'll see shortly.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> OMG this caller is great!!


  *Call-In C-SPAN LIVE*

Democrats: 202-585-3885
Republican: 202-585-3996
Independents: 202-585-3887

TWITTER Hastag:   *#NSA*

----------


## Mr.NoSmile

Caller Cliff talking about the GOP embracing Amash, Ron Paul, Thomas Massie- I do like that.

----------


## EBounding

Awesome callers.

----------


## chudrockz

> Hey, WSJ, read the damn Constitution!!!


Unlikely to happen.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

The first retard of the day.

Sigh.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Greenwald's latest 


> *Glenn Greenwald*     ‏@*ggreenwald*  4m 
>                 The House Dem leadership channels Dick Cheney in urging vote against Amash/Coneyrs bill to defund NSA bulk spying  http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/07/democratic-whip-description-of.html …
> 
>  *                                Expand                     *   
> 
>    *Glenn Greenwald*     ‏@*ggreenwald*  12m 
>                 From the official account of the House Judiciary Democrats  https://twitter.com/HouseJudDems/status/360107762421731330 …
> 
>  *     View tweet       *   
> ...

----------


## brandon

Haven't been able to pay too much attention..when is the vote scheduled? Or did it already happen? Thanks!

----------


## chudrockz

> Hey guys, Thomas Massie's amendment to block foreign aid to Egypt passed.


Sweet! Did I miss the recorded vote?? Or did it pass with a voice vote?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Call-In C-SPAN LIVE*

Democrats: 202-585-3885
Republican: 202-585-3996
Independents: 202-585-3887

TWITTER Hastag:   *#NSA*

----------


## chudrockz

Good Lord, all of these callers really do sound like they're on RPF!

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Sweet! Did I miss the recorded vote?? Or did it pass with a voice vote?


Voice vote.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Haven't been able to pay too much attention..when is the vote scheduled? Or did it already happen? Thanks!


They are voting on it any minute now.

It failed a voice vote but Amash requested a recorded vote.

----------


## chudrockz

You know, I honestly haven't paid a great deal of attention to Justin Amash until today. I obviously friended him on FB and read about him here, but I don't think I ever listened to him live until this afternoon.

He is a hero.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Sweet! Did I miss the recorded vote?? Or did it pass with a voice vote?


Um this? In regards to the Massie Amendment.

Slutter McGee

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

C-SPAN's Washington Journal will be covering the Amash Amendment #100, NSA, Patriot Act, it in full, tomorrow morning starting 7AM EST - 4AM PST

Okay GAME ON... Vote is happening NOW!

----------


## chudrockz

RECORDED VOTE. Here we go!!!

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Voting now! Done in two minutes.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

We are going to need the roll call.

----------


## Carlybee

More Dems voting for it than Repubs so far

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Hey, WSJ, read the damn Constitution!!!


The constitution says:

The privacy of metadata is not "legitimately expectable"; andmetadata-collection by the government is not a "search" under the 4th Amendment, and so it requires no warrant.
http://ablogonpolitics.blogspot.com/...amendment.html

and it is going to keep saying that as long as people do not care to amend it.

----------


## fearthereaperx

not gonna make it ;(

----------


## thehungarian

Down in flames.

----------


## Carlybee

may be close

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Um this? In regards to the Massie Amendment.
> 
> Slutter McGee


Voice vote.  Thomas is all over Facebook screaming it.  lol

----------


## chudrockz

Very close, looks like barely not passed.

Edit, yeah failed.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Failed. Very close. We now have a list of who to Primary.

----------


## EBounding

Let's get a roll call of the traitors.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> What wsa the final vote?


Yeas 205

Neas 217

Would you happen to have a tube of the callers?

----------


## thehungarian

Republicans have a love-hate relationship w/ the Constitution, ya know? They can't help it when they abuse it, it just makes them so mad sometimes that they have no recourse but to slap it around. But they still love you, darling, don't worry.

----------


## Brett85

I figured more Dems would've voted for the amendment than that.  The Republicans voted about like I expected.

----------


## Champ

100% of the callers, American citizens, supported the Amash amendment.  More than 50% of the Congress, were against the Amash amendment.  

Makes perfect logical sense.

----------


## JCDenton0451

> We're trying to track down the final roll call splits, but a  majority of Republicans voted against the measure while a majority of  Democrats voted for it. Neither of these majorities were overwhelming,  however.


Screw the GOP! There go their "small government" credentials

----------


## BuddyRey

Is there a full list of the vipers who failed in their duty to protect the American people today?

They need to catch holy HELL on their DC switchboards in the ensuing days.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

I want to see the list of the "Nay"'s on the Amash Amendment.  Going to push it!

----------


## Champ

> Is there a full list of the vipers who failed in their duty to protect the American people today?
> 
> They need to catch holy HELL on their DC switchboards in the ensuing days.


I am sure lists of these people will be posted all over the place shortly.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Not hardly. 
> 
> 205 to 217
> 
> Many people switched their votes to try and appear good on paper. The voice vote wasn't nearly that close.


Exactly. It was bound to be close. They know it will be held against them.

----------


## jkob

I want the list

----------


## Mr.NoSmile

So is Rep. Bill Young trying to 'keep the peace'?

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Zaid Jilani ‏@ZaidJilani  4m  
*What name do we give to them? I nominate: Americans. RT @conor64 Alliance of civil libertarian Republicans and Democrats is formed.*

https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/statu...71173457313793

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> 100% of the callers, American citizens, supported the Amash amendment.  More than 50% of the Congress, were against the Amash amendment.  
> 
> Makes perfect logical sense.


There was one idiot that called in towards the end.

He mumbled something about maybe perhaps he might have heard Rush Limbaugh some years ago say the Tea Party wants to get rid of the Constitution.

The man could hardly mumble a coherent sentence. It was pretty embarrassing.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Oh, FFS! The *first* mention of the Amash Amendment is on the MSM right now. Celebrating the defeat, and featuring Bachmann ranting.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Oh, FFS! The *first* mention of the Amash Amendment is on the MSM right now. Celebrating the defeat, and featuring Bachmann ranting.


They are talking to the hand, the American people are tired of it!  Whether R or D or I, they are tired of it!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Did you catch the spineless cowards that once the 218 count was exceeded on the NAYS... changed their votes to YEA.

Tomorrow Morning C-SPAN's Washington Journal will be covering the Amash Amendment, the NSA< Patriot Act, etc. starts @ 7AM EST - 4AM PST

Recommend activists participate on Twitter, FB, email, and Call-In tomorrow morning 

http://www.c-span.org/Series/Washington-Journal/ *Call-In C-SPAN LIVE*

Democrats: 202-585-3880
Republican: 202-585-3991
Independents: 202-585-3882

TWITTER    *@CSPANWJ * Hastag:* #NSA*   https://twitter.com/*cspan*wj‎




> *Glenn Greenwald*     ‏@*ggreenwald*  57s 
>                 Rep Rush Holt (D-NJ) introduces "Surveillance State Repeal Act"  http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/07/rush-holt-repeal-surveillance-state-act.html …   *Glenn Greenwald*     ‏@*ggreenwald*  5m 
>                 Ladies and gentlemen, joining Michele Bachmann as a major White House/NSA defender: Michael Goldfarb  https://twitter.com/thegoldfarb/status/360171553792598016 …   *Zaid Jilani*     ‏@*ZaidJilani*  8m 
>                 What name do we give to them? I nominate: Americans. RT @*conor64* Alliance of civil libertarian Republicans and Democrats is formed.
>                                                                          Retweeted by *Glenn Greenwald*   *Glenn Greenwald*     ‏@*ggreenwald*  8m 
> *Only a 12-vote margin to  reject a bill to DE-FUND a major NSA program.  Amazing coalition of  left-wing and right-wing civil libertarians* 
> 
> 
>    *Glenn Greenwald*     ‏@*ggreenwald*  14m 
>                 Here's @*RyanLizza* on (some of) the reasons the NSA is engaged in mass, bulk collection of communications in Brazil http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/07/why-the-nsa-really-cares-about-brazil.html

----------


## JCDenton0451

> Oh, FFS! The *first* mention of the Amash Amendment is on the MSM right now. Celebrating the defeat, and featuring Bachmann ranting.


Most Republicans voted with Bachmann. She was the face of Republican party today, sadly.

----------


## Carlybee

And people wonder why some of us libertarians are skeptical of the Republican party.

----------


## jct74

here's video of the entire debate

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/HouseSession5428

consideration of Amash amendment starts at 5:58:55 and phone calls start at 6:26:40

----------


## Lucille

@JustinRaimondo After the Amash Rebellion, there are two new parties in Congress: the authoritarians and the Americans.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> And people wonder why some of us libertarians are skeptical of the Republican party.


The Republican Party is comprised of individuals, who could be us and people like us.  Whether that happens or not is up to each individual.  One thing is for sure though, it ain't going to happen if people sit on the sidelines and point fingers.

----------


## thehungarian

> And people wonder why some of us libertarians are skeptical of the Republican party.


More like most, I'd think. People want and would support a Paul/Amash/Massie/Lee/Cruz(maybe?) GOP over the McCain/Graham/Bachmann/Boehner GOP we have now. I think. I hope.

----------


## EBounding

Make sure to call your Congressman tomorrow to ask how they voted, even if you know they voted No.

----------


## american.swan

Who were the quick ones to vote yea? 

And what was the vote right at when 217 was reached? Before the weak/blackmailed ones votes yea?

----------


## JCDenton0451

> I'm surprised it was even this close. Was expecting like 350-50 in defeat.


You should thank the Dems who voted for it.

----------


## Carlybee

Look at this idiotic tweet:


Winston ‏@WinstonCN  

Great news. He is as loony and kooky as that mental case #ronpaul: RT “@RCDefense: Amash amendment goes down 205-217." #nsa #tcot

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Sadly, I don't think we have time anymore to wait for the old authoritarian $#@!ers to die off.


There are plenty of young authoritarian $#@!ers.  Or did you forget the Obama youth?

----------


## chudrockz

> Look at this idiotic tweet:
> 
> 
> Winston ‏@WinstonCN  
> 
> Great news. He is as loony and kooky as that mental case #ronpaul: RT “@RCDefense: Amash amendment goes down 205-217." #nsa #tcot


You can't help that kinda stuff. Had the internet been around in 1941 you'd have read the same insanity from "good" Germans.

----------


## FallOfTheWest

I've never called my congressmen before. I know for sure the scumbag voted nay. 
What do you guys say? Would cussing and yelling be bad?

----------


## chudrockz

> There are plenty of young authoritarian $#@!ers.  Or did you forget the Obama youth?


Good point. I was referring mostly to elected authoritarian REPUBLICAN $#@!ers.

----------


## JCDenton0451

> Look at this idiotic tweet:
> 
> 
> Winston ‏@WinstonCN  
> 
> Great news. He is as loony and kooky as that mental case #ronpaul: RT “@RCDefense: Amash amendment goes down 205-217." #nsa #tcot


_
A pro-America, pro-Israel activist from Iran. An advocate of regime change in_ #*Iran*. #*TCOT* #*AvGeek* #*Military* #*atheist*

----------


## Carlybee

> I didn't suggest you love any party, Carly.  Likewise, to hate a party is pretty stupid, don't you think?  They are inanimate objects, used or not used, to achieve political objectives.  Those who involve themselves and become the leadership clearly enhance its usefulness.  Those who merely snark on the side, don't.



Not having this conversation with you.  I made a simple statement after observing how this amendment was shot down by mostly Republicans and you start jumping.  Don't think I am going to sit here and take your $#@! so kindly buzz off.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Good point. I was referring mostly to elected authoritarian REPUBLICAN $#@!ers.


I haven't noticed the Democrats overturning the Patriot Act, lately, have you?

----------


## supermario21

There actually wasn't a huge group of ayes at the end. It seemed to be consistently down by ~15 votes.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> I didn't suggest you love any party, Carly.  Likewise, to hate a party is pretty stupid, don't you think?  They are inanimate objects, used or not used, to achieve political objectives.  Those who involve themselves and become the leadership clearly enhance its usefulness.  Those who merely snark on the side, don't.


Can you never drop something? Just leave it alone?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Not having this conversation with you.  I made a simple statement after observing how this amendment was shot down by mostly Republicans and you start jumping.  Don't think I am going to sit here and take your $#@! so kindly buzz off.


You had the conversation and buzz off right on back.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Can you never drop something? Just leave it alone?


Apparently not right now.  But, thanks for asking.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I've never called my congressmen before. I know for sure the scumbag voted nay. 
> What do you guys say? Would cussing and yelling be bad?


Their offices are closed, so you will have to wait until tomorrow.

----------


## chudrockz

> Their offices are closed, so you will have to wait until tomorrow.


I was very polite when I called. Then again, I was sober at the time. It went really good though.

I have to find out how Rep. Tim  Walz (MN) voted. I may, or may not, be polite when I call back.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process


But scooping up data on everybody is not "blunt".

$#@! these people.

----------


## eduardo89

> I've never called my congressmen before. I know for sure the scumbag voted nay. 
> What do you guys say? Would cussing and yelling be bad?


Be polite but make sure they know you are extremely unhappy. Find another bad vote by them and say that you started losing faith in them with that vote and that this vote basically seals the deal. Tell them that you donated and volunteered last election, but this next one you feel compelled to make sure they are primaried by someone who supports the Constitution, but that there is still time for you to change your mind and that you hope that his/her next votes are more in line with what the constituents sent him/her to DC to do: uphold the Constitution.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Once I get this straightened out, the link to the roll call will be here:




> @ggreenwald will be posted here: http://t.co/Hn2daDIroB; Mike Masnick (@mmasnick) July 24, 2013

----------


## Carlybee

Mike Rogers suggested Justin Amash was leading this charge for Facebook likes. Nice.

----------


## Xenliad

> Once I get this straightened out, the link to the roll call will be here:


+rep

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Mike Rogers suggested Justin Amash was leading this charge for Facebook likes. Nice.


Didn't he used to be in Intelligence?

----------


## Champ

I have always been an extremely polite person, never made a single scene in public or embarrassed another individual in any case that I can ever remember, even when it was justified.  

But, where is the line drawn with this?  I am a peaceful person, but come on, enough is enough.

Are we always going to act nice and politely make our case until our "rights" don't exist anymore, our voice is taken away, and we are locked away in our prison camps or are we going to at some point, just maybe, show some outrage, show that we have had enough of this.  It feels like we are nearing the point where acting like gentlemen or gentlewomen, is in no way having any effect on the outcome of this situation.

----------


## Valli6

Still no rollcall vote, but this is the link where it should show up.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/index.asp

----------


## ClydeCoulter

It's UP!

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml




> Aderholt
> Alexander
> Andrews
> Bachmann
> Barber
> Barr
> Barrow (GA)
> Benishek
> Bera (CA)
> ...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Here are two tweets thanking the Congress people *who spoke in favor of the Amash Amendment*:




> Thank you for #Defending4A! @repjustinamash @repjohnconyers @RpSensenbrenner @RepJaredPolis @RepMickMulvaney @RepZoeLofgren @RepJoeBarton
> 
> https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360180243656491010





> Thank you for #Defending4A! @RepJeffDuncan @JudgeTedPoe @RepJerryNadler @RepMGriffith @TulsiPress @TulsiGabbard #NSA @repjustinamash
> 
> https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360181729727750144

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Dang it! Rokita a didn't vote!

----------


## chudrockz

Holy goats, it appears Tim Walz voted in favor of the Amash amendment! First thing he's done I approve of that I know of!

----------


## Valli6

So we lost by 12 votes, and 12 chose not to vote.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Oh yeah, my Congressman voted NO.  I was pretty sure he would.  $#@!.

----------


## Carlybee

Now I know why Culberson didn't respond..he voted no...and he shall get a no vote from me election time.

----------


## FrancisMarion

Every single SC representative voted Aye on the Amash amendment.

yes Clyburn too.  this might be a first. ^^^^^

----------


## BuddyRey

My so-called "Representative", Robert Pittenger, is going to get a piece of my mind tomorrow.

And apparently, this is not a new thing for him...




> *Pittenger has received some controversy for voting for the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act, although declaring himself a "small government" conservative.* He also has refused to release any of his stands on political beliefs other than being a conservative. He was also a recipient of funding from large banks in the Charlotte area, as well as the controversial Koch Brothers. His campaign also refuses to respond to questions on his YouTube channel, choosing to delete them instead.

----------


## AmericasLastHope

Which ones switched to "Aye" at the last minute?

----------


## ClydeCoulter

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...87282180931584


Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald   
Yes, Pelosi and Boehner voted together with the WH - along with Michele Bachmann and Peter King RT @ledbetreuters As did Boehner.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Oh yeah, my Congressman voted NO.  I was pretty sure he would.  $#@!.


Primary him!

----------


## easycougar

> https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...87282180931584
> 
> 
> Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald   
> Yes, Pelosi and Boehner voted together with the WH - along with Michele Bachmann and Peter King RT @ledbetreuters As did Boehner.


Gotta love bipartisan$#@!!

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Gotta love bipartisan$#@!!


ROFLMAO $#@!!  That hurt!

----------


## EBounding

Levin voted no.  I'm going to call and ask why he voted with Michelle Bachmann.

----------


## seyferjm

I'm pretty shocked to see that Chabot supported this, he was a major CISPA backer at one point.

----------


## Carlybee

> Republicans didn't shoot down the amendment alone.  Over 80 Democrats voted against it as well.  If every Democrat had voted for it, or even 80% of them, the amendment would've passed.


I have no control over what Dems do, I don't vote Dem. It still doesn't change the fact that more Republicans than Dems voted against it, which tells me the majority are the same old warmongering fascists they have always been and I seriously pray no one on this forum ever tries to defend the likes of Michelle Bachmann to me again.

That being said, it was encouraging to see the ones who voted for it. I was a little surprised to see Ted Poe vote for it honestly. He has never struck me as particularly liberty minded, but I am guessing he was going strictly by the Constitution.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> This marks Sheila Jackson-Lee very clearly as an enemy of the Constitution and the Rule of Law - an Obama / Democrat party hack.
> There are many others. May they all go down in infamy.


Surely, this comes as no surprise.

----------


## Carlybee

> The NSA & Barry's "Party Wagon", held a TOP SECRET/SCI briefing for Congressman today on Capital Hill, prior to voting on the Amash NSA Amendment #100... On those classified Microsoft PowerPoint slides were: the METADATA of Congressman Culberson (R-TX), and his phone calls that matched up to the same list of Call Services as; Elliott Spitzer, Senator Robert Menedez's Dominican Republic minors, David Vitter's DC madame hotline, and finally to former Washington DC mayor Marion Berry's Crack dealers.
> 
> The Next PowerPoint Slide was of Nancy Pelosi's, who's phone calls, emails, taped conversations displayed a huge stock deal with credit card company VISA, AIPAC, and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Makes you wonder doesn't it?

----------


## TwoGuard

Watching the floor debate, it was incredibly frustrating to hear NSA defenders talk about Congressional oversight when, in the course of performing it, they're lied to by Clapper and others.  Likewise irritating to hear them point to the FISA court as a check on the process, when it's clearly a secret kangaroo court that rubber stamps whatever the executive branch is asking for.

----------


## Slutter McGee

submitting the following letter to the editor: There have actually been a lot of votes my congressman has made that I disagree with, but I played it down, and played somethings up for the audience of my district. On my way to intoxication, so please point out any grammar mistakes, or things you think I could fix, or tell me something I got wrong.

Thanks,




> On June 24th, Congress voted on an amendment to the Department of Defense appropriations bill to prevent the NSA from collecting information on all of our phone calls and records without a warrant or probable cause. 
> 
> Unfortunately, in a vote fairly evenly split among party lines, this amendment was defeated. Even more unfortunate was that Congressman Thornberry voted no on this legislation. I want to thank the Congressman for many of his votes; His strong support for the second amendment and our military being chief among them. I understand his desire to protect this great country from terrorism, but not at the cost of our liberty.
> 
> An entire debate can be started about the judicial oversight and federal court rulings involved, or we could just accept that the 4th amendment means what it says. As conservatives, if we believe in smaller government and support the bill of rights, we should recognize that the fourth amendment is just as important as the second, whether we agree or disagree with actions of Edward Snowden.
> 
> I hope Congressman Thornberry will consider this. And I hope he will accept that the conservative position is to stand up for the entire constitution, even when you might not personally agree with the outcome. You might say, If you are not doing something wrong then you have nothing to worry about. I agree right now. But who is to say that we wont eventually elect somebody who abuses these powers.


They only give 250 words,

Slutter McGee

----------


## Carlybee

> Watching the floor debate, it was incredibly frustrating to hear NSA defenders talk about Congressional oversight when, in the course of performing it, they're lied to by Clapper and others.  Likewise irritating to hear them point to the FISA court as a check on the process, when it's clearly a secret kangaroo court that rubber stamps whatever the executive branch is asking for.



Welcome    And I agree.

----------


## Fredom101

> I have no control over what Dems do, I don't vote Dem. It still doesn't change the fact that more Republicans than Dems voted against it, which tells me the majority are the same old warmongering fascists they have always been and I seriously pray no one on this forum ever tries to defend the likes of Michelle Bachmann to me again.
> 
> That being said, it was encouraging to see the ones who voted for it. I was a little surprised to see Ted Poe vote for it honestly. He has never struck me as particularly liberty minded, but I am guessing he was going strictly by the Constitution.


It all comes down to their self interest.
Some in congress are terrified of all the spying. If the NSA has the capabilities that Snowden revealed, then everyone in congress is also being spied upon on a daily basis. So they voted for Amash's bill.

On the other hand, there are those in congress that see this as a threat to their power. They THINK they are above the people, and immune to getting in trouble for anything. So they naturally voted against it.

This issue is far more confusing than just left/right or even liberty-minded/anti-liberty.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> submitting the following letter to the editor: There have actually been a lot of votes my congressman has made that I disagree with, but I played it down, and played somethings up for the audience of my district. On my way to intoxication, so please point out any grammar mistakes, or things you think I could fix, or tell me something I got wrong.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> They only give 250 words,
> 
> Slutter McGee


Maybe the "fairly evenly split among party lines" could be better worded, sounds like "split along party lines" which implies partisanship, there were a few more democrats to vote for it than republicans, but both parties were split, which is what I think you are trying to say.

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Maybe the "fairly evenly split among party lines" could be better worded, sounds like "split along party lines" which implies partisanship, there were a few more democrats to vote for it than republicans, but both parties were split, which is what I think you are trying to say.


Good idea, I should also throw in his agreement with Obama if I can make it fit. Trying to appeal to the hawkish nature of my district can be difficult.

Slutter McGee

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## Brett85

> I have no control over what Dems do, I don't vote Dem. It still doesn't change the fact that more Republicans than Dems voted against it, which tells me the majority are the same old warmongering fascists they have always been and I seriously pray no one on this forum ever tries to defend the likes of Michelle Bachmann to me again.
> 
> That being said, it was encouraging to see the ones who voted for it. I was a little surprised to see Ted Poe vote for it honestly. He has never struck me as particularly liberty minded, but I am guessing he was going strictly by the Constitution.


The majority of Republicans in the house still support the police state, but it's a dwindling majority.  When the Patriot Act extension passed a year or two ago, only a little over 30 Republicans voted against it, while over 90 Republicans voted for this amendment.  Some of the Republicans who voted for this amendment would still vote to extend the Patriot Act, but I think there would still be more Republican votes against the Patriot Act today than there were when it was last voted on.  The Republicans in Congress are at least moving in the right direction on civil liberties issues.  It would've been unheard of during the Bush years to see over 90 Republicans in the house vote against any "anti terror policy."

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## Slutter McGee

revised,




> On June 24th, Congress voted on an amendment to the Department of Defense appropriations bill to prevent the NSA from collecting information on all of our phone calls and records without a warrant or probable cause. 
> 
> Unfortunately, in a a vote not split among party lines, this amendment was defeated. I was even more disappointed that Congressman Thornberry agreed with President Obama’s expansion of federal power and voted no.  I want to thank the Congressman for many of his votes; His strong support for the second amendment and our military being chief among them. I understand his desire to protect this great country from terrorism, but not at the cost of liberty.
> 
> An entire debate can be started about the judicial oversight and federal court rulings involved, or we could just accept that the 4th amendment means what it says. As conservatives, if we believe in smaller government and support the bill of rights, we should recognize that the 4th amendment is just as important as the 2nd, whether or not we agree with actions of Edward Snowden.
> 
> I hope Congressman Thornberry will consider this. I hope he will accept that the conservative position is to stand up for the entire constitution, even when we might not personally like the outcome. You might say, “If you are not doing something wrong then you have nothing to worry about.” I agree right now. But who is to say that we wont eventually elect somebody who abuses these powers.


Slutter McGee

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## Carlybee

> The majority of Republicans in the house still support the police state, but it's a dwindling majority.  When the Patriot Act extension passed a year or two ago, only a little over 30 Republicans voted against it, while over 90 Republicans voted for this amendment.  Some of the Republicans who voted for this amendment would still vote to extend the Patriot Act, but I think there would still be more Republican votes against the Patriot Act today than there were when it was last voted on.  The Republicans in Congress are at least moving in the right direction on civil liberties issues.  It would've been unheard of during the Bush years to see over 90 Republicans in the house vote against any "anti terror policy."



The Bush Republicans need to go.  Do you have any idea if this was right down Establishment vs Tea Party lines on the R side?

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## Brett85

> The Bush Republicans need to go.  Do you have any idea if this was right down Establishment vs Tea Party lines on the R side?


It seemed to me like most of the staunch conservatives in the house voted for the Amash amendment.  Bachmann was one of the very few exceptions.  For example, Jim Jordan voted for the amendment, and he was thought to be a potential conservative challenger to Boehner for the speaker of the house.  Generally speaking it seemed like the more conservative Republican members voted for the Amash amendment.  Strangely, it was kind of a vote that lined up as hardcore conservatives and hardcore liberals vs. more moderate and more establishment Republicans and Democrats.

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## Anti Federalist

Well, I'll be damned...

Carol Shea-Porter gets a gold star today.

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## V4Vendetta

vote tally?

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## Anti Federalist

> You might say, “If you are not doing something wrong then you have nothing to worry about.” I agree right now. - Slutter McGee

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## V4Vendetta

blah

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## CPUd

> The Bush Republicans need to go.  Do you have any idea if this was right down Establishment vs Tea Party lines on the R side?



I would bet the ones who voted against it were either not up for reelection or well-funded.

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## Contumacious

> I would bet the ones who voted against it were either not up for reelection or well-funded.


 Given the fact that the surveillance programs are a bold face unconstitutional usurpation , it is an accurate conclusion that the demopublicans have perpetrated treason against the Constitution and are nothing more than fascist government supremacists bastards.

.

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## Teenager For Ron Paul

Lost by 12 votes. 12 reps didn't vote.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

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## KEEF

Dear Rep Huizenga,

Thanks for finally growing a pair and letting them drop from the inguinal canal by voting with Justin Amash.  You moved up just ever so slightly on my list.

Sincerely,
Your Friendly 2nd District Constituent

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## gregk

> vote tally?


I posted this already, but here it is again:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/412/

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## invisible

I called my Congressman late this morning (the morning of the vote).  The aide I talked to said that I was the only person who had called, which sounded like a load of bull to me.  She also said that she didn't know how he would vote.  Given his record, sure enough, I'm seeing his name on the list of traitors here upon arriving home.  Hopefully he'll be having a town hall next month, and I won't be too swamped with work to attend.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> It seemed to me like most of the staunch conservatives in the house voted for the Amash amendment.  Bachmann was one of the very few exceptions.  For example, Jim Jordan voted for the amendment, and he was thought to be a potential conservative challenger to Boehner for the speaker of the house.  Generally speaking it seemed like the more conservative Republican members voted for the Amash amendment.  Strangely, it was kind of a vote that lined up as hardcore conservatives and hardcore liberals vs. more moderate and more establishment Republicans and Democrats.


That's an accurate assessment of the breakdown of the votes.  It's much more nuance than saying, "republican suck".  Sure, many do, but republicans like Amash are terrific representatives and they deserve our support, especially since they're on the up swing and we're finally begin to chip away at this BS.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> Most Republicans voted with Bachmann. She was the face of Republican party today, sadly.


Amash, Massie, and the Pauls are republicans.  The party isn't monolithic.  Let's get Amash and Massie some reinforcements in 2014.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> Rep. Tom Cotton needs to be primaried.


For the past year I've been warning everyone about Tom Cotton.  If we don't stop him now he will run for Senate.  He's young enough and Arkansas is red enough to keep him in the Senate for 30 years.  We should run a liberty candidate with military experience against him.

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## eduardo89

> For the past year I've been warning everyone about Tom Cotton.  If we don't stop him now he will run for Senate.  He's young enough and Arkansas is red enough to keep him in the Senate for 30 years.  We should run a liberty candidate with military experience against him.


From the moment I saw him on a panel at CPAC about whether the US is involved in too many wars I've been alarmed by him. He and Liz Cheney are the neocon's last hopes.

If he does run for Senate, I hope Pryor kicks his ass.

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## Peace Piper

> Bachmann was one of the very few exceptions.


She's an exceptional Representative!



(real photo _Not a 'shop_)

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## Occam's Banana

> I would bet the ones who voted against it were either not up for reelection or well-funded.


This is the House of Representatives. They are ALL up for re-election (every two years). Perhaps you are thinking of the Senate.

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## compromise

My congressman, Posey, voted yes, as I expected.

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## compromise

> The Bush Republicans need to go.  Do you have any idea if this was right down Establishment vs Tea Party lines on the R side?


Some of the liberal Republicans, like Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Chris Gibson, Chris Smith and Mike Fitzpatrick voted YEA.
Some of the conservative Republicans, like Michelle Bachmann, Steve King and Lynn Westmoreland voted NAY.

So it wasn't exactly like that.

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## EBounding

> Some of the liberal Republicans, like Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Chris Gibson, Chris Smith and Mike Fitzpatrick voted YEA.
> Some of the conservative Republicans, like Michelle Bachmann, Steve King and Lynn Westmoreland voted NAY.
> 
> So it wasn't exactly like that.



When I call my Dem Rep, I'm going to ask why he voted with the George W. Bush wing of the Republican party.

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