# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Prosperity >  Gold and Silver Predictions for 2014

## Smaulgld

Expect a rebound in both

http://smaulgld.com/2014-predictions...ld-and-silver/

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## RickyJ

A very big rebound IMO.

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## Zippyjuan

Gold could go below $1000 this year.

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## RickyJ

> Gold could go below $1000 this year.


As long as the Fed keeps up the QE, Gold is only going to go up.

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## Matt Collins

First rule of investing: never make predictions. 

Srsly, market timing is equal to gambling.

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## oyarde

> Gold could go below $1000 this year.


Yeah , or $1350 , I have no idea. I do know this , I would never be caught dead just holding stocks and FRN's . because they could go to zero .

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## oyarde

I would like to thank Danke for being optimistic on gold which caused me to get a little more @ $1200 .

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## oyarde

Sometimes an old guy can use another persons perspective

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## eduardo89

I don't think gold will crack $1500 this year.

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## oyarde

> I don't think gold will crack $1500 this year.


I would be surprised as well , if it did .

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## Seraphim

Gold and silver just went over their respective 200 MDA a few days ago. Gold crossing the 1400$ mark in short order is very likely.

Based on the way silver behaves (faster to go down, faster to go up); going into the 25-26$ range, also in short order, is likely.

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## DFF

> Gold and silver just went over their respective 200 MDA a few days ago. Gold crossing the 1400$ mark in short order is very likely.
> 
> Based on the way silver behaves (faster to go down, faster to go up); going into the 25-26$ range, also in short order, is likely.


I agree. 

Am long both gold and silver. 

Both metals are carving out what looks like massive W bottoms on the weekly chart. 

Target if the pattern completes is $1600 for gold and $30 for silver.

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## oyarde

> I agree. 
> 
> Am long both gold and silver. 
> 
> Both metals are carving out what looks like massive W bottoms on the weekly chart. 
> 
> Target if the pattern completes is $1600 for gold and $30 for silver.


 That would work.

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## DFF

This is what I see forming on gold (similar pattern on silver):

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## LibForestPaul

> Gold could go below $1000 this year.


God I hope so. I missed last buying opportunity.

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## LibForestPaul

> First rule of investing: never make predictions. 
> 
> Srsly, market timing is equal to gambling.


At least you did not say free market timing.

Now market rigging is a sure thing.

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## matt0611

> God I hope so. I missed last buying opportunity.


I hope so too, that would mean the economy was getting better and I would also start to buy a lot more gold with my extra cash.

Unfortunately I think Zippy is going to be very wrong about his sub $1000 gold prediction for 2014. Not looking good so far...

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## oyarde

$1328.70

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## Danke

> I would like to thank Danke for being optimistic on gold which caused me to get a little more @ $1200 .


You should include him in your will.

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## Peter4Paul2016

I believe that gold is good as a *long term* investment.  About 3-10% of your total portfolio.  10% being on the very aggressive side... James Rickards predicts gold at $7,000/ounce in the next few years - http://goldsilverinvestments.net/inv...arget-7000-00/  If so, now is a buying opportunity.

Thanks to economic worries, gold has just hit it's highest in 6 months - http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...tcmp=obnetwork

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## oyarde

> You should include him in your will.


I already had you penciled in for some 12 Ga slugs , couple of old silver pc.'s , some bird seed .....I could cut you in on a rare solid gold California gold pc. , but you would have to commit to the poll bearer list for that , bright side for you is , though , you could probably pick up some  young lady at the funeral .

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## Zippyjuan

It is intersting that rising housing prices means a bubble and rising gold prices are simply "what must happen".

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## fatjohn

Oh silver is going to go crazy you know. Just pull up the gold/silver ratio at netdania.com or wherever you want zoom out untill 2010 and everybody should be able to spot the 2-3 year trendline that has just broken today.

If gold breaks 1370ish, a new bull market will be born which will be far crazier than the last one which went +150% in gold. I would expect to see +$3500 gold and +$100 silver before we get another negative return yoy. Note this is not for 2014 solely, more horizon 2017ish.

Disclaimer: The author owns both gold and silver
Edit: he just lost it all in a freak boating accident.

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## oyarde

> It is intersting that rising housing prices means a bubble and rising gold prices are simply "what must happen".


I actually do not know if housing prices are a bubble , what interests me more would be who is buying them and what they do for a living . I cannot fathom young people buying homes in decent urban districts at the prices ......

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## Zippyjuan

> Oh silver is going to go crazy you know. Just pull up the gold/silver ratio at netdania.com or wherever you want zoom out untill 2010 and everybody should be able to spot the 2-3 year trendline that has just broken today.
> 
> If gold breaks 1370ish, a new bull market will be born which will be far crazier than the last one which went +150% in gold. I would expect to see +$3500 gold and +$100 silver before we get another negative return yoy. Note this is not for 2014 solely, more horizon 2017ish.
> 
> Disclaimer: The author owns both gold and silver
> Edit: he just lost it all in a freak boating accident.


The Silver Gold ratio doesn't tell you much of anything about what the price of either should be- it can be all over the place (chart for 1969- 2010):
http://www.financialsense.com/contri...s-other-assets

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## fatjohn

Yes it had a whole range of values in the past, but that doesn't mean there are no trends.



Today the bottom trend has been broken.

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## DFF

> It is intersting that rising housing prices means a bubble and rising gold prices are simply "what must happen".


There are very *real* factors pushing gold and silver. Like the Argentinian peso and Venezuelan Bolivar being devalued by large amounts.

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## Madison320

> It is intersting that rising housing prices means a bubble and rising gold prices are simply "what must happen".


I partially agree with you. Because the Fed is printing money all prices are facing upward pressure. But home prices are more dependent on low interest rates. When rates rise there will be downward pressure on home prices. Also I believe demand for gold is going to go up as people lose faith in fiat currency. And especially if the world switches to some sort of gold backed currency.

Basically:

monetary inflation = homes up, gold up

other factors = homes down, gold up

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## Zippyjuan

> I partially agree with you. Because the Fed is printing money all prices are facing upward pressure. But home prices are more dependent on low interest rates. When rates rise there will be downward pressure on home prices. Also I believe demand for gold is going to go up as people lose faith in fiat currency. And especially if the world switches to some sort of gold backed currency.
> 
> Basically:
> 
> monetary inflation = homes up, gold up
> 
> other factors = homes down, gold up


So gold can always and only go up, eh?

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## Danke

> So gold can always and only go up, eh?


No, but fiat currencies always go down and eventually fail.

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## Seraphim

Silver just posted it's longest winning streak in 46 years. I believe that's 13 straight +/green days (trading days) in a row.

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## Acala

> It is intersting that rising housing prices means a bubble and rising gold prices are simply "what must happen".


The housing market is built on credit (newly created money) while the gold market is not.  So, although the price of both gold and housing goes up and down, and there is an element of speculation in both, as between the two, only the housing market lives or dies directly on monetary policy.  So, while you might have a short-lived speculative bubble in both, you will only have an inflationary bubble in housing.

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## DFF

> Silver just posted it's longest winning streak in 46 years. I believe that's 13 straight +/green days (trading days) in a row.


Ya, and today was a big volume day. 93k contracts traded hands. Highest volume so far this year.

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## Seraphim

I usually agree with you but gold does the opposite of what you stated.

When credit and currency fail (or are severely inflated, particularly currency), liquidity storms into gold (for protection) and creates bubbles of EPIC proportion, because of inflation and inflationary expectations.

The last secular bull market in gold (1965-1980) is a prime example of that.

This current secular bull in gold, which is orders of magnitude larger then the last, will also end in an inflation/currency collapse driven bubble.




> The housing market is built on credit (newly created money) while the gold market is not.  So, although the price of both gold and housing goes up and down, and there is an element of speculation in both, as between the two, only the housing market lives or dies directly on monetary policy. * So, while you might have a short-lived speculative bubble in both, you will only have an inflationary bubble in housing*.

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## Madison320

> So gold can always and only go up, eh?


That's not what I said, read my post.

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## Acala

> I usually agree with you but gold does the opposite of what you stated.
> 
> When credit and currency fail (or are severely inflated, particularly currency), liquidity storms into gold (for protection) and creates bubbles of EPIC proportion, because of inflation and inflationary expectations.
> 
> The last secular bull market in gold (1965-1980) is a prime example of that.
> 
> This current secular bull in gold, which is orders of magnitude larger then the last, will also end in an inflation/currency collapse driven bubble.


Yes.  The collapse of a currency due to inflation will cause the price of gold in that currency to go up, but indirectly due to the devaluation of the currency.  And, as I indicated, there can be some speculation.  I didn't want to go into it because I was trying not to get too complicated.  What is important to understand is that normal inflation (as opposed to hyper inflation) does not enter the market uniformly.  It enters where government and banking pour the new money in and prices at or near the point of entry go up dramatically faster than in the rest of the market.  This creates a direct inflationary bubble.  Housing is the perfect example with prices increasingas a direct result of new money entering the system.  Gold is generally NOT paid for with new currency and so its price is not inflated directly by new currency creation.

Stated another way, there are two kinds of bubbles: speculative and inflationary.  Speculative bubbles are market phenomena that self-correct.  inflationary bubbles are monetary phenomena that collapse economies.  Gold is subject to speculative bubbles but not inflationary bubbles, except indirectly when inflation causes speculation.  Housing is subject to both types of bubble - direct subsidy by creation of credit money and speculation built on top of it.

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## Seraphim

Inflationary forces always find themselves effecting the price of desired assets; including gold.

I do agree that there is a disproprotionate amount of the inflation that goes to the housing sector as a result of gov't policy (subsidies).




> Yes.  The collapse of a currency due to inflation will cause the price of gold in that currency to go up, but indirectly due to the devaluation of the currency.  And, as I indicated, there can be some speculation.  I didn't want to go into it because I was trying not to get too complicated.  What is important to understand is that normal inflation (as opposed to hyper inflation) does not enter the market uniformly.  It enters where government and banking pour the new money in and prices at or near the point of entry go up dramatically faster than in the rest of the market.  This creates a direct inflationary bubble.  Housing is the perfect example with prices increasingas a direct result of new money entering the system.  Gold is generally NOT paid for with new currency and so its price is not inflated directly by new currency creation.
> 
> Stated another way, there are two kinds of bubbles: speculative and inflationary.  Speculative bubbles are market phenomena that self-correct.  inflationary bubbles are monetary phenomena that collapse economies.  Gold is subject to speculative bubbles but not inflationary bubbles, except indirectly when inflation causes speculation.  Housing is subject to both types of bubble - direct subsidy by creation of credit money and speculation built on top of it.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Gold could go below $1000 this year.


You must be joking.

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## PaulConventionWV

> So gold can always and only go up, eh?


What's the other side of inflation... Anybody?

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## DFF

Gold just broke out of a bull flag on the hourly chart...could take us to around 1350.

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## westkyle

Sorry, if I'm derailing, but where's the best place online to buy gold coins anyways, fellars?

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## thoughtomator

gold is going up
silver is going up faster

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## oyarde

> Sorry, if I'm derailing, but where's the best place online to buy gold coins anyways, fellars?


I would find a local place.

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## hated

> Sorry, if I'm derailing, but where's the best place online to buy gold coins anyways, fellars?


Depends on what you want.. https://comparegoldprices.com/

Check out their companion sites for the different PM's, too. There is a section for dealer reviews for you to read up on, if you'd like. Keep in mind, snail-mail a check and it's going to take forever. Do it with plastic and you're going to incur the fee.

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## NoOneButPaul

> Sorry, if I'm derailing, but where's the best place online to buy gold coins anyways, fellars?


Apmex is the easiest way to buy, maybe not the best, but easiest. For extra money you can use a debit card and they ship quick. 

I do prefer shopping around locally though.

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## oyarde

$1326.10 .

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## Peter4Paul2016

Silver Price Chart 
*Silver Price* ticker is updated every 10 minutes to reflect the current spot price of silver and the chart will display the silver history for the silver price today with your choice or 1 month, 3 month, 6 month, 1 year, 5 year and 10 year silver price history graph.

Silver Price Chart

Edit: I posted a very cool interactive price chart... but it doesn't show properly in the forum, so here's a link to a silver price chart instead!   Oh well, hope it's still useful!

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## Madison320

> Apmex is the easiest way to buy, maybe not the best, but easiest. For extra money you can use a debit card and they ship quick. 
> 
> I do prefer shopping around locally though.


Yup. I've been using them also. No problems.

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## DFF

Somebody keeps banging gold and silver down at 7 pm during the asian session.

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## oyarde

> Somebody keeps banging gold and silver down at 7 pm during the asian session.


$1324.20 right now .

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## DFF

Welp, complete reversal since I made that last post. Silver's broken out of it's range and is now at $22.07. Gold has broken out as well. More upside coming for both.

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## oyarde

> Welp, complete reversal since I made that last post. Silver's broken out of it's range and is now at $22.07. Gold has broken out as well. More upside coming for both.


Yep , $1336.90 , $22.06 right now .

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## Peter4Paul2016

Wall St Journal - 
Precious Metals Rally on China Data
Gold Prices Up to Highest Level Since Late October

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...?mg=reno64-wsj

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## smokemonsc

> Wall St Journal - 
> Precious Metals Rally on China Data
> Gold Prices Up to Highest Level Since Late October
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...?mg=reno64-wsj



I don't think it's debatable any longer that gold is 1337.

That is all.

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## oyarde

> I don't think it's debatable any longer that gold is 1337.
> 
> That is all.


Currently @ $1342.40

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## oyarde

I figured it would be $1350 today .....

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## DFF

Gold has been outperforming silver the past couple of days.

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## oyarde

> Gold has been outperforming silver the past couple of days.


I am a bit surprised it is only sitting around $22 , but that gives somebody a chance to pick a little up if they wish, so , maybe a good thing ....

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## DFF

The banks intentionally short sell silver to keep the price artificially low. If you look at the CME's commitment of traders, the commercials (banks) are ALWAYS more short than long.

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## oyarde

> The banks intentionally short sell silver to keep the price artificially low. If you look at the CME's commitment of traders, the commercials (banks) are ALWAYS more short than long.


I have never looked at it , but always suspected that was the case .

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## kill the banks

> The banks intentionally short sell silver to keep the price artificially low. If you look at the CME's commitment of traders, the commercials (banks) are ALWAYS more short than long.


yeah , here's an article on gold shorts 

Naked gold shorts & gold price manipulation :
The problem with Quantitative Easing is that the annual creation of an enormous supply of new dollars is raising questions among American and foreign holders of vast amounts of US dollar-denominated financial instruments. They see their dollar holdings being diluted by the creation of new dollars that are not the result of an increase in wealth or GDP and for which there is no demand.
When gold hit $1,900, the Federal Reserve panicked.  The manipulation of the gold price became more intense.  It became more imperative to drive down the price, but the lower price resulted in higher Asian demand  for which scant supplies of gold were available to meet.

Having created more paper gold claims than there is gold to satisfy, the Fed has used its dependent bullion banks to loot the gold exchange traded funds (ETFs) of gold in order to avoid default on Asian deliveries. Default would collapse the fractional bullion system that allows the Fed to drive down the gold price and protect the dollar from QE.

What we are witnessing is our central bank pulling out all stops on integrity and lawfulness in order to serve a small handful of banks that financial deregulation allowed to become too big to fail at the expense of our economy and our currency. When the Fed runs out of gold to borrow, to rehypothecate, and to loot from ETFs, the Fed will have to abandon QE or the US dollar will collapse and with it Washingtons power to exercise hegemony over the world.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/naked-g...lation/5365360

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## oyarde

I guess this $1343 can work for me .

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## Seraphim

Good post;

It's naked short selling that manipulates the price down. Short contracts always have a countering long. Naked shorts offer no such counterbalance. The naked shorts are basically newly created money thrown at PM's on the short side.




> yeah , here's an article on gold shorts 
> 
> Naked gold shorts & gold price manipulation :
> The problem with Quantitative Easing is that the annual creation of an enormous supply of new dollars is raising questions among American and foreign holders of vast amounts of US dollar-denominated financial instruments. They see their dollar holdings being diluted by the creation of new dollars that are not the result of an increase in wealth or GDP and for which there is no demand.
> When gold hit $1,900, the Federal Reserve panicked.  The manipulation of the gold price became more intense.  It became more imperative to drive down the price, but the lower price resulted in higher Asian demand  for which scant supplies of gold were available to meet.
> 
> Having created more paper gold claims than there is gold to satisfy, the Fed has used its dependent bullion banks to loot the gold exchange traded funds (ETFs) of gold in order to avoid default on Asian deliveries. Default would collapse the fractional bullion system that allows the Fed to drive down the gold price and protect the dollar from QE.
> 
> What we are witnessing is our central bank pulling out all stops on integrity and lawfulness in order to serve a small handful of banks that financial deregulation allowed to become too big to fail at the expense of our economy and our currency. When the Fed runs out of gold to borrow, to rehypothecate, and to loot from ETFs, the Fed will have to abandon QE or the US dollar will collapse and with it Washingtons power to exercise hegemony over the world.
> ...

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## DFF

Those naked shorts are eventually going to get blown out of the water and whosoevers holding physical gold and silver will hit paydirt like there's no tomorrow.

With Chinas insatiable demand for physical, along with other countries like Argentina and Venezuela devaluing their currencies, and the fact that their isn't that much gold in the world, one has to wonder if were getting closer a major "failure to deliver" moment.

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## oyarde

> Those naked shorts are eventually going to get blown out of the water and whosoevers holding physical gold and silver will hit paydirt like there's no tomorrow.


That would work for me as well ....

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## Zippyjuan

> yeah , here's an article on gold shorts 
> 
> Naked gold shorts & gold price manipulation :
> The problem with Quantitative Easing is that the annual creation of an enormous supply of new dollars is raising questions among American and foreign holders of vast amounts of US dollar-denominated financial instruments. They see their dollar holdings being diluted by the creation of new dollars that are not the result of an increase in wealth or GDP and for which there is no demand.
> *When gold hit $1,900, the Federal Reserve panicked.  The manipulation of the gold price became more intense.*  It became more imperative to drive down the price, but the lower price resulted in higher Asian demand  for which scant supplies of gold were available to meet.
> 
> Having created more paper gold claims than there is gold to satisfy, *the Fed has used its dependent bullion banks to loot the gold exchange traded funds (ETFs) of gold in order to avoid default on Asian deliveries.* Default would collapse the fractional bullion system that allows the Fed to drive down the gold price and protect the dollar from QE.
> 
> What we are witnessing is our central bank pulling out all stops on integrity and lawfulness in order to serve a small handful of banks that financial deregulation allowed to become “too big to fail” at the expense of our economy and our currency. *When the Fed runs out of gold to borrow, to rehypothecate, and to loot from ETFs, the Fed will have to abandon QE or the US dollar will collapse and with it Washington’s power to exercise hegemony over the world.*
> ...


The Fed doesn't own or sell any gold.  They don't care what the price of it is.

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## Danke

> The Fed doesn't own or sell any gold.  They don't care what the price of it is.


umm...WOW.

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## kill the banks

> The Fed doesn't own or sell any gold.  They don't care what the price of it is.


contact global research and correct them asap (jk)

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## DFF

> The Fed doesn't own or sell any gold.  They don't care what the price of it is.


So which bank do you work at, Zippy? Time to come clean.

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## Zippyjuan

The Fed stores gold for the US Treasury and other governments but doesn't own any gold themselves.  The only time they did care what the price of gold was was when the dollar was backed by gold but it isn't anymore- hasn't been for over 30 years.

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## DFF

Ok Zippy, then I'm gonna ask you the same question Ron Paul asked Ben Bernanke: do you consider gold money?

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## gwax23

I wish I had some money to buy physical gold.

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## Zippyjuan

> Ok Zippy, then I'm gonna ask you the same question Ron Paul asked Ben Bernanke: do you consider gold money?


Gold has value but no, we do not use it as money. We used to.  Most of our money consists of ones and zeros- it exists only digitally. Money is a medium of exchange.

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## HOLLYWOOD

Zero Hedge: *Here Is The FT's Gold Price Manipulation Article That Was Removed*
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...le-was-removed

Financial Times: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/d5e0017...le-was-removed

Google FT cached webpage for those who missed it...

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<a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ykHXX5XWM0gJ:www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5e00172-9b14-11e3-946b-00144feab7de.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client  =firefox-nightly" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gold price rigging fears put investors on alert - FT.com

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## oyarde

> So which bank do you work at, Zippy? Time to come clean.


Zip is an economist , surely if he was a bank VP or something he would have offered me a loan of  4 million or so @ less than 2 1/2 % ?? I would be hurt if he did not.

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## oyarde

Looks like , $1343.90.

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## Dianne

Is the pawn shop/Craigslist the best place to buy?

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## oyarde

> Is the pawn shop/Craigslist the best place to buy?


If you can find anything on Craiglist it may , I usually do better on price at a coin shop than a pawn shop , but I look around a lot .

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## DFF

> Is the pawn shop/Craigslist the best place to buy?


No way. Go to blanchards online, or monex for the best prices. Or even better is goldmoney.

--

Silver is getting pounded by the cartel today, down -3.41% currently. The good news though, the uptrend line is still in place and we're still above the key 200 day moving average.

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## oyarde

In the past 24 hours anywhere between $1325 and $1345 .....

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## DFF

Y'know, I just realized today is options expiration for gold and silver futures. That's why the price is being beaten down. The banks are trying to push people who have call options out of the money. Watch, tomorrow the price will probably start to rise again.

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## Zippyjuan

> Zip is an economist , surely if he was a bank VP or something he would have offered me a loan of  4 million or so @ less than 2 1/2 % ?? I would be hurt if he did not.


Not an economist but I do have a degree in it with some grad school work.  I tried unsuccessfully to get into banking but timing was bad- I graduated during the S&L crisis which saw way more banks fail than the recent recession. Lots of bankers looking for work then.

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## Zippyjuan

> Y'know, I just realized today is options expiration for gold and silver futures. That's why the price is being beaten down. The banks are trying to push people who have call options out of the money. Watch, tomorrow the price will probably start to rise again.


I believe that is actually Friday.  This chart says Feb 28th for gold and silver. http://www.barchart.com/futures/expi...p?view=options

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...25-702064.html




> *Spot Gold Down a Tad as Rally Attracts Selling*
> 
> LONDON--Gold prices were down slightly on the European spot market Tuesday, cooling after the previous session's rally. 
> 
> Spot gold was down 0.1% at $1,335.37 a troy ounce in morning European trade, having hit its highest price in almost four months Monday. 
> 
> Gold's rally stalled Tuesday, however, as investors cashed in on the metal's gains. 
> 
> Gold's failure to break above technical resistance at $1,340 an ounce Monday also likely prompted some investors to place stop-loss orders -- commands to automatically sell at a certain level -- at $1,328 ounce, said ANZ. As such, a move below this level could trigger a knee-jerk move towards $1,320, the bank said. 
> ...


At this moment, it is $1326.

----------


## oyarde

> I believe that is actually Friday.  This chart says Feb 28th for gold and silver. http://www.barchart.com/futures/expi...p?view=options
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...25-702064.html
> 
>  At this moment, it is $1326.


 Yep , $1327 right now .

----------


## oyarde

$1332

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> So, although the price of both gold and housing goes up and down, and there is an element of speculation in both, as between the two, *only the housing market lives or dies directly on monetary policy.*


I disagree.  Gold is very directly and strongly linked to monetary policy in some very important ways.  Gold is a monetary commodity and so its value reacts to and is determined by monetary happenings.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> It's naked short selling that manipulates the price down.


 There is no manipulation.  The gold market is too large to effectively manipulate.  This is just a ridiculous conspiracy theory trotted out by people who don't happen to like what the price of gold is doing at the time.

----------


## oyarde

> There is no manipulation.  The gold market is too large to effectively manipulate.  This is just a ridiculous conspiracy theory trotted out by people who don't happen to like what the price of gold is doing at the time.


 I dunno , but as far as I am concerned , gold market should only be physical gold . Then I know there would be no manipulation .

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Is the pawn shop/Craigslist the best place to buy?


 No, no, no, no, no, no, NO.

Just no.  _Especially_ on the Craigslist part.  Same emphatic "No" for ebay.  My "No" on pawn shops is less emphatic, but I would still recommend against it -- you will almost certainly be ripped off, or at least not get a good deal.




> Sorry, if I'm derailing, but where's the best place online to buy gold coins anyways, fellars?


*Colorado Gold
GoldMart
Gainesville Coins
APJM*

If you stick with one of those, you should be happy.

To get the best price, it can be helpful to check here:
https://comparegoldprices.com

To have a good overall experience, you may wish to check out the reviews here:
http://golddealerreviews.com

And personally, I have had good experience with these fellows:
http://aeiccc.com/

----------


## oyarde

$1353

----------


## oyarde

Holding @ $1350 , that was kind of a key number to me for some reason , I expected sell offs every time it went $1300 or $1325, you have to figure a lot got bought at $1200 .Easy profit taking.

----------


## oyarde

So , after the $1350 sell offs , who knows .

----------


## oyarde

I figured today all of the sell offs would be done and it would go back to $1350.Looks like $1347.10.

----------


## oyarde

$1350.

----------


## Peter4Paul2016

Looks like Gold is holding steady @ $1340-1350...

----------


## oyarde

> Looks like Gold is holding steady @ $1340-1350...


I would guess the new bottom ( for now ) to be $1330 , about $1345 and on the rise now , stays this way , the bottom will get to be $1350 I imagine . The amount of wealth for the wealthy is back to an all time high , but it is all in the stock market and real estate, not easily protected . So , I can only guess people will take some steps to protect some of it .....

----------


## Smaulgld

With tensions in Ukraine you would think gold would have taken off...

----------


## Zippyjuan

Maybe that means that when tensions ease, gold will resume its price decline.

----------


## DFF

> Maybe that means that when tensions ease, gold will resume its price decline.


Tensions aren't going to ease. And it's not just Ukraine driving Gold. There's Venezuela, Argentina, Thailand, and QE to infinity here at home.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Interesting thought.  The world  is in a crisis so gold should go up in price. In that case, it should only and always go up since there is always some crisis going on someplace (usually several at once).  I wonder how it managed to go down half of the time since we finally closed out the gold standard (1972- in half of the years since then, gold has declined in price)?

----------


## oyarde

> Maybe that means that when tensions ease, gold will resume its price decline.


I would agree , if I thought tensions were ever going to ease , there will be the next , and the next , If I had to guess ....

----------


## oyarde

> Interesting thought.  The world  is in a crisis so gold should go up in price. In that case, it should only and always go up since there is always some crisis going on someplace (usually several at once).  I wonder how it managed to go down half of the time since we finally closed out the gold standard (1972- in half of the years since then, gold has declined in price)?


Good point , after the early 70's ,  , it should not have gone down ......

----------


## DFF

> I wonder how it managed to go down half of the time since we finally closed out the gold standard (1972- in half of the years since then, gold has declined in price)?


Short-selling by banks to deliberately bring down the price. Were gold not tampered with, it's chart would be vertical since 1972, with very insignificant pullbacks.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Silver's rebounding @ 20.83$

----------


## Madison320

> Interesting thought.  The world  is in a crisis so gold should go up in price. In that case, it should only and always go up since there is always some crisis going on someplace (usually several at once).  I wonder how it managed to go down half of the time since we finally closed out the gold standard (1972- in half of the years since then, gold has declined in price)?


You're right it has nothing to with "world tension". Like you said there's always tension in the world. It has to due with simple econ 101. Supply and demand. As the supply of dollars goes up the price goes down.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Good point, after the early 70's... *it should not have gone down* ......


 "*Should*"?  "Should"?  What does that mean?  You are passing value judgments on what the market "should" and "should not" have done?

One can point the finger of judgment at the market I suppose and say "You're *wrong!*  You _should have_ done this."  And one can then take satisfaction in the "fact" that he is right and the market is wrong, as he loses lots of money due to the market being "wrong."

Or one can accept that whatever the market does is whatever the market does -- there is no "should."

----------


## Zippyjuan

> You're right it has nothing to with "world tension". Like you said there's always tension in the world. It has to due with simple econ 101. Supply and demand. *As the supply of dollars goes up the price goes down*.


Actually if you have more dollars and the same supply of something you are buying with dollars, the price should go up- not down- all other things being equal.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Good point , after the early 70's ,  , it should not have gone down ......


The strongest corelation with the price of gold since 1972 has been the rate of inflation.  From 1972 to roughly 1980  (when the rate of inflation hit double digits), the rate of inflation was rising and the price of gold was also rising.  When the Fed cranked up interest rates and inflation started to decline, the price of gold also declined.  They both went down until about 2004.  The recent gold bubble is more associated with the economic crisis than the rate of inflation- which has stayed low.

----------


## NoOneButPaul

> There is no manipulation.  The gold market is too large to effectively manipulate.  This is just a ridiculous conspiracy theory trotted out by people who don't happen to like what the price of gold is doing at the time.


This statement is so ignorant it's heartbreaking. Ever heard of the London Gold Pool and the events that lead to the US having to leave the Gold Standard? Years long manipulation with physical to cap the price at $35 dollars an ounce. It fell apart and the capped gold price went with it. I mean this happened less than 50 years ago and now here it is a person is making a statement like this with no knowledge that it did happen, has happened, and continues to happen today. Gold manipulation is obvious. 

There's a reason we didn't get Germany even it's first installment back of physical gold in December. We do not have any physical gold left. We have warehouses full of paper receipts good in gold. Even Greenspan indirectly admitted Central Banks were leasing out gold to control the price during the late 90s. It's totally manipulated and you're foolish not to see it and take advantage.

----------


## NoOneButPaul

> The strongest corelation with the price of gold since 1972 has been the rate of inflation.  From 1972 to roughly 1980  (when the rate of inflation hit double digits), the rate of inflation was rising and the price of gold was also rising.  When the Fed cranked up interest rates and inflation started to decline, the price of gold also declined.  They both went down until about 2004.  The recent gold bubble is more associated with the economic crisis than the rate of inflation- which has stayed low.


There's a big reason things might be different this time... there's over a trillion dollars sitting at the Fed in reserves. It's sitting there because the velocity of money is dead and the rate of interest at the fed is actually worth it since they drove the real rate of interest to near 0 for almost 6 years:



If the rate of interest rises and all this money gets unleashed onto the public then it may not be like 1980 at all.

Finally, the real reason to buy physical gold and/or silver, is to insure yourself against a worldwide rejection of the dollar. To not have at least 5% of your networth in physical PMs is to trust our monetary system and the central bankers who run it. That is so incredibly foolish. Hedge yourself against your paper assets. Never before in history has the entire world primarily used one currency and right now it's clear the government's are racing to the bottom with theirs to try to increase economic growth. This has never been tried before in the history of the world. If you aren't at least open to stacking a little bit you're setting yourself up for a real financial disaster. The fact this entire system was HOURS from collapsing financially 6 years ago (that's what the bankers told us anyway) doesn't seem to have anyone worried. All is well folks, keep buying the all-time highs in stocks and forget about the stability of your broken currency and unsustainable debt.

----------


## oyarde

> "*Should*"?  "Should"?  What does that mean?  You are passing value judgments on what the market "should" and "should not" have done?
> 
> One can point the finger of judgment at the market I suppose and say "You're *wrong!*  You _should have_ done this."  And one can then take satisfaction in the "fact" that he is right and the market is wrong, as he loses lots of money due to the market being "wrong."
> 
> Or one can accept that whatever the market does is whatever the market does -- there is no "should."


 I just make my money as I go , but if you bought an ounce of gold , say 1973 , avg yearly price was probably around $100 , then sold it , say in 1976 for $125 , that was not a good play , I would have told you not to do it , if you needed the $125 , I would just loan it to you for a couple weeks , no interest .  If you had bought it in 2005 for $445 , I still would have told you to hold it . I sold an 1881 Ten dollar gold pc this year , I picked it up in a poker game in London , maybe 1985 . It was about a $150 pot . I would not have put that in . Only hand I played that night . The market may decide . There are though , should and should nots in life . Choose wisely . Sound principles.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> There's a big reason things might be different this time... there's over a trillion dollars sitting at the Fed in reserves. It's sitting there because the velocity of money is dead and the rate of interest at the fed is actually worth it since they drove the real rate of interest to near 0 for almost 6 years:
> 
> 
> 
> *If the rate of interest rises and all this money gets unleashed onto the public then it may not be like 1980 at all.*
> 
> Finally, the real reason to buy physical gold and/or silver, is to insure yourself against a worldwide rejection of the dollar. To not have at least 5% of your networth in physical PMs is to trust our monetary system and the central bankers who run it. That is so incredibly foolish. Hedge yourself against your paper assets. Never before in history has the entire world primarily used one currency and right now it's clear the government's are racing to the bottom with theirs to try to increase economic growth. This has never been tried before in the history of the world. If you aren't at least open to stacking a little bit you're setting yourself up for a real financial disaster. The fact this entire system was HOURS from collapsing financially 6 years ago (that's what the bankers told us anyway) doesn't seem to have anyone worried. All is well folks, keep buying the all-time highs in stocks and forget about the stability of your broken currency and unsustainable debt.


Higher interest rates will discourage borrowing.  Less borrowing means LOWER velocity of money and all that money in excess reserves will continue to sit where it is- higher interest rates won't "unleash" it but discourage that. For it to "flood out" you need a huge surge in demand for money- like say the economy suddenly was growing like crazy. 




> *Never before in history has the entire world primarily used one currency* and right now it's clear the government's are racing to the bottom with theirs to try to increase economic growth. This has never been tried before in the history of the world.


The world still isn't using primarily one currency.  Euros, yen, yuan, rubles, dollars (US, Canadian, Australian, etc), pesos, ect.

----------


## oyarde

> The strongest corelation with the price of gold since 1972 has been the rate of inflation.  From 1972 to roughly 1980  (when the rate of inflation hit double digits), the rate of inflation was rising and the price of gold was also rising.  When the Fed cranked up interest rates and inflation started to decline, the price of gold also declined.  They both went down until about 2004.  The recent gold bubble is more associated with the economic crisis than the rate of inflation- which has stayed low.


Yeah , pretty much , except I see it  ( say 2006 to current )as a loss in faith of unbacked currencies , I have no faith in the Fed. Nothing has been repaired on such " economic crisis " , next will only be worse , I imagine , since there will be no full recovery before ....

----------


## oyarde

Anyway , we are @ $1358 , by next Tue , could be $1375 , $1350 barrier has been broken . Who knows  , feel pretty good though about the 1/2 gram of 10 kt I picked up on 2/24 for $10.50

----------


## DFF

> The recent gold bubble is more associated with the economic crisis than the rate of inflation- which has stayed low


Official inflation has stayed low. But real inflation is clocking in at a much higher rate. For example, whilst the government says there's little to no inflation, the price of groceries have risen a lot over the last few years, as has the price of oil, which has averaged a $100 a barrel for quite some time. Strangely, the government's CPI numbers exclude energy and food costs, so this statistic is very misleading. And being that real inflation is indeed growing, the idea there's some type of "gold bubble" is quite off base. If anything, gold is undervalued.

----------


## DFF

dp

----------


## oyarde

> Official inflation has stayed low. But real inflation is clocking in at a much higher rate. The price of groceries has rising quite a bit over the last few years, as has the price of oil, which has averaged a $100 a barrel for quite some time. These government CPI numbers (which exclude energy and food costs) you're so fond of referencing are total boloney. And the notion that there's some type of "gold bubble" is equally ridiculous.


Well , none of that is going to get better , and by summer it will be in play , corn going to fuel (  bad play , putting a big part of the food chain in that ) , no water in Caly , higher diesel and gasoline wholesale costs , meat , milk prices , higher , canned goods , higher , produce , higher . People at the lower end are going to be pinched harder . Wages are not going to go up , employment will not as well . Bring out some more Dem welfare , food stamp voters ,  I  reckon ..... they could be pissed when they have to buy hot dogs and noodles like the people who pay for those steaks , LOL

----------


## oyarde

> Silver's rebounding @ 20.83$


 Looks like about $21 and a nickel , but it should be more , you will not be able to buy any for that , so  , maybe we should just use the price you can buy some for , lol

----------


## Schifference

My prediction Gold at 1.875 BTC
Silver at 0.034375 BTC

----------


## oyarde

I know it could be shocking  , but just an old dirt farmer with a pretty undesirable job like me has been able to get by OK without the permanent portfolio .LOL ,lol

----------


## oyarde

Ouch , Asian markets look,  not good , imagine that ...

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> This statement is so ignorant it's heartbreaking. Ever heard of the London Gold Pool and the events that led to the US having to leave the Gold Standard?


 I am sorry to break your achy heart even further, NoOneButPaul, but I have indeed heard of these things.  I am not _ignorant_ of them; I merely _disagree_ with you.




> Years long manipulation with physical to cap the price at $35 dollars an ounce. It fell apart and the capped gold price went with it. I mean this happened less than 50 years ago and now here it is a person is making a statement like this with no knowledge that it did happen, has happened, and continues to happen today. Gold manipulation is obvious.


 While we both are aware of roughly these same historical events, I may be aware of a little bit more than you.  No big deal.  I would characterize things a little differently than you have.  To me, the fact that once the true market price of dollars became less than 1/35th of an ounce of gold nothing -- and I mean _nothing_ -- could stop that true market price from manifesting itself, that fact is a testament to the non-manipulability of the gold market.  Even a player with such a _huge_ percentage of the actual gold stock as the US government was, was unable to prevent the market from manifesting the truth.  If the official price of the dollar in terms of gold had remained 1/35th oz. and the "gold window" had remained open, all of the US government's gold -- all of it -- every last ounce -- would have flown out that window in surprisingly short order.  France was ordering it by the ton.  Everyone was ordering it by the ton.  It would have all been gone.

The market can't be stopped.  The market can't be manipulated.  The truth will out.




> There's a reason we didn't get Germany even it's first installment back of physical gold in December. We do not have any physical gold left. We have warehouses full of paper receipts good in gold. Even Greenspan indirectly admitted Central Banks were leasing out gold to control the price during the late 90s. It's totally manipulated and you're foolish not to see it and take advantage.


 Government doesn't work.  Government can try to do many things -- and usually does!  That doesn't mean that what they are trying to do will work.  As a matter of fact: it usually doesn't.  Government doesn't work.

The market reaction to what the government does cannot be controlled.  It cannot be prevented.  It cannot be reliably predicted (by anyone, and certainly not by government bureaucrats).  The market is in control.  The market will brook no barriers.  It will flood over dams, it will break through dykes, and it will destroy and sweep away the puny attempts of central banks to stop it.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> It's totally manipulated and you're foolish not to see it and take advantage.


 Also, whether or not I am foolish in my beliefs, how am I being foolish in my actions?  Actions are more important, are they not?  What actions or failures to act am I guilty of which you would characterize as "foolish"?  How exactly do you think I should be "taking advantage," but am failing to?

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> I know it could be shocking  , but just an old dirt farmer with a pretty undesirable job like me has been able to get by OK without the permanent portfolio .LOL ,lol


 Oh, I know you have.  Don't take it like that.  I'm not trying to tell you what to do.  I was just making what I think is a sound general point: *what the market does is what the market does.*  No use getting bent out of shape about it.  No use thinking it's wrong.  The market doesn't really care what you and I think of its behavior.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> if you bought an ounce of gold, say [in] 1973 [for] $100, then sold it, say in 1976 for $125, that was not a good play, I would have told you not to do it...
> 
> If you had bought it in 2005 for $445, I still would have told you to hold it.


If I had bought an ounce of gold in 1980 for $650, would you have told me to hold it then?

If I had bought an ounce of gold in 1990 for $380, would you have told me to hold it then?

----------


## oyarde

> If I had bought an ounce of gold in 1980 for $650, would you have told me to hold it then?
> 
> If I had bought an ounce of gold in 1990 for $380, would you have told me to hold it then?


 I did not buy much of any over $300 , during that time frame , thought that was high for my budget
, loaded up on silver . If I had bought it then , I would have held it too .

----------


## oyarde

$1365.50 .

----------


## Madison320

> Actually if you have more dollars and the same supply of something you are buying with dollars, the price should go up- not down- all other things being equal.


Sorry. I meant the price of the dollar goes down.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> I did not buy much of any over $300 , during that time frame , thought that was high for my budget
> , loaded up on silver . If I had bought it then , I would have held it too .


So you would have advised me to just hold it.  And keep holding it.  And keep holding it.

That's the thing with gold bugs: you're never, never, never supposed to sell.  Even when the price has gone way up.  Even when the price goes down for 20 years in a row.

Now that's actually not really any different than the Permanent Portfolio.  We just buy the gold and hold it.  The minor difference is the rebalancing bands, so that if gold has gone disproportionately up, we sell the gold and thus lock in those profits.  If gold has gone way down, on the other hand, we buy it to bring the allocation back up to 25%.

Buy low.

Sell high.

What do you know?  It works!

----------


## oyarde

> So you would have advised me to just hold it.  And keep holding it.  And keep holding it.
> 
> That's the thing with gold bugs: you're never, never, never supposed to sell.  Even when the price has gone way up.  Even when the price goes down for 20 years in a row.
> 
> Now that's actually not really any different than the Permanent Portfolio.  We just buy the gold and hold it.  The minor difference is the rebalancing bands, so that if gold has gone disproportionately up, we sell the gold and thus lock in those profits.  If gold has gone way down, on the other hand, we buy it to bring the allocation back up to 25%.
> 
> Buy low.
> 
> Sell high.
> ...


 I do sell some , probably never did though at less than $1100 . I was not surprised when it broke $1000 . What I sell though are pre 1930's and go  over spot .An example would be a common early 1900's 2 1/2 dollar gold pc in Very Fine , probably bring $100 over spot.

----------


## oyarde

If gold went to $1700 or $1800 tomorrow , I  may sell a little bit .

----------


## oyarde

What I really want to know is , what will the price be in 2025 ? If it is North of 2K , I may want more , otherwise , maybe not .LOL

----------


## jllundqu

Anyone else stoked that Gold is up over 20$/TO so far today???

----------


## DFF

> Anyone else stoked that Gold is up over 20$/TO so far today???


Yours truly. Gold took out overhead resistance at $1362. Next stop: $1420.

----------


## oyarde

> Anyone else stoked that Gold is up over 20$/TO so far today???


$1369.10.

----------


## DFF

> What I really want to know is , what will the price be in 2025 ? If it is North of 2K , I may want more , otherwise , maybe not .LOL


Hard to say what will happen in the future, but as a frame of reference, Gold was ~$300 per ounce in 1999.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> What I really want to know is , what will the price be in 2025 ? If it is North of 2K , I may want more , otherwise , maybe not .LOL


If anybody knows for certain what the price of something will be at a specific point in the future, they could make billions.   Obviously nobody does.

----------


## Madison320

> Now that's actually not really any different than the Permanent Portfolio.  We just buy the gold and hold it.  The minor difference is the rebalancing bands, so that if gold has gone disproportionately up, we sell the gold and thus lock in those profits.  If gold has gone way down, on the other hand, we buy it to bring the allocation back up to 25%.
> 
> Buy low.
> 
> Sell high.
> 
> What do you know?  It works!


The flaw in that idea is that statistically just because something goes down doesn't mean it's going back up. And just because it goes up doesn't mean it's coming down. It seems to me you'll get hammered in a prolonged high inflation environment. You'll be constantly selling your hard assets (as their dollar value is inflated higher), and loading up on dollars. You'll end up with one gold flake and a bunch of worthless pieces of paper.

----------


## Madison320

> Anyone else stoked that Gold is up over 20$/TO so far today???


I own gold but I'm not that excited yet about the price going up. I'm looking at other data points like total govt debt, oil, dollar index, interest rates and most importantly, QE. I think you'll see big changes in those data points first before you see a big spike in gold.

----------


## DFF

> If anybody knows for certain what the price of something will be at a specific point in the future, they could make billions. Obviously nobody does.


Not so fast.

When the Federal Reserve sets interest rates (which effects stocks, futures, forex etc), they make this decision in *private* before they release it to the public.

Who's to say they're not tipping off the banks ahead of time? And the banks are reaping billions of dollars via inside information?

With central banking, market certainties are very much possible...

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> The flaw in that idea is that statistically just because something goes down doesn't mean it's going back up. And just because it goes up doesn't mean it's coming down. It seems to me you'll get hammered in a prolonged high inflation environment. You'll be constantly selling your hard assets (as their dollar value is inflated higher), and loading up on dollars. You'll end up with one gold flake and a bunch of worthless pieces of paper.


 There was a prolonged high inflationary environment in the 1970s.  The Permanent Portfolio was perhaps the _only_ broad portfolio strategy that _didn't_ get hammered.  Instead, it performed quite nicely, exactly as designed.

So, while your theory sounds nice, actual real-life experience has already proved it to be wrong.  Let's examine why that is.

Let's say there _is_ a prolonged high inflationary period.  The dollar is sinking, let's say 10% per year.  In that case, gold will be going up dramatically, far faster than the dollar is sinking.  Gold might go up 20%, 50%, or even more.  There are very good reasons for this which I won't get into now.  So every year, you open up your portfolio and see what happened.  "Hmm," you say the first year, "Looks like I got a good return overall: +12.5%.  Also looks like gold has increased from 25% to 37.5% of my portfolio due to its 50% price increase this year.  So I'll need to re-balance."  You sell it until it makes up only 25% of your portfolio again and you take the proceeds and buy the assets that have fallen to be less than 15%.  Now everything is balanced again.  Your purchasing power has grown by whatever the overall return was that year -- in this case, 12.5% -- minus whatever inflation was -- in this case, 10%.  So you had a real return of 2.5%.  Terrific!

What happens the next year?  You go in, say "Hmm" again, sell off some gold again, and once again have a 2.5% increase in real purchasing power.  This can continue indefinitely.  At the end of ten years, what do you have?  More real wealth than you had at the beginning.  That's all that matters.  If you could have bought one farm before, now maybe you can buy one-and-a-half farms.  You've gained half a farm (or whatever the increase is).

You are concerned you'd be buying worthless dollars.  No, when you sell off the gold, you are almost certainly *not using it to buy cash* (T-Bills).  The cash portion is very stable.  Your cash is in T-Bills and is probably more or less tracking inflation.  In the 1970s, for example, cash did fine -- no big losses.  Instead, you will be buying more stocks and more bonds.  Stocks may or may not be doing poorly -- it depends on how many counteracting good factors are cancelling the inflation hurt for businesses.  Bonds almost certainly will be doing poorly.  So you'll likely be trading small bits of gold for large chunks of bonds, and maybe some stocks, too.  Then, when the high inflationary period ends, all the bonds you shoveled up at rock-bottom prices will rocket up to the high heavens.




> just because something goes down doesn't mean it's going back up.


 You are absolutely right, and I myself have tried to explain this multiple times, for instance to Gaddafi Duck.  In this case, it is hard for me to imagine a high inflationary period going on and on for decades with no change.  I don't see that happening.  But... *you just never know!*  If the high inflation does keep chugging steadily along from now 'til 2525 (which again, I would find bizarre), what will happen to a Permanent Portfolio user?  They will just keep on increasing their wealth, year after year, just as they did the first two years.

----------


## Madison320

> Your cash is in T-Bills and is probably more or less tracking inflation.


So if we get really high inflation, like 20-30%, we can buy US T-Bills with a 20-30% yield?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Not so fast.
> 
> When the Federal Reserve sets interest rates (which effects stocks, futures, forex etc), they make this decision in *private* before they release it to the public.
> 
> Who's to say they're not tipping off the banks ahead of time? And the banks are reaping billions of dollars via inside information?
> 
> With central banking, market certainties are very much possible...


They do make their decisions in private, but they announce any policy changes or rate changes long in advance of when they actually occur. That is to allow markets to make adjustments to the anticipated changes without causing any shocks.  There is no "insider advantage" to that.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> So if we get really high inflation, like 20-30%, we can buy US T-Bills with a 20-30% yield?


Yes. When inflation topped ten percent in the late 1970's/ early 80's, Treasury bill rates were also over ten percent. (if they ever do- stock up and lock in the high returns).  Investors include an expected rate of inflation in what they demand in interest rates and Tbill rates are based on auctions- what buyers are willing to pay. 

In 1981 (the highest rates), two year notes were paying 15.94%, five year notes 16.27% and ten years 15.84%.  http://bonds.about.com/od/government...eld-Charts.htm

The rate of inflation peaked at 14.76% in April of 1980. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...Inflation.aspx

----------


## Madison320

> Yes. When inflation topped ten percent in the late 1970's/ early 80's, Treasury bill rates were also over ten percent. (if they ever do- stock up and lock in the high returns).  Investors include an expected rate of inflation in what they demand in interest rates and Tbill rates are based on auctions- what buyers are willing to pay. 
> 
> In 1981 (the highest rates), two year notes were paying 15.94%, five year notes 16.27% and ten years 15.84%.  http://bonds.about.com/od/government...eld-Charts.htm
> 
> The rate of inflation peaked at 14.76% in April of 1980. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...Inflation.aspx


Those 4 trillion a year interest payments on the debt are really going to suck!

Do you really think you can keep pace with inflation by loaning money to the same institution that is responsible for that inflation?

----------


## oyarde

> If anybody knows for certain what the price of something will be at a specific point in the future, they could make billions.   Obviously nobody does.


Yeah , I know , but I need you to work some magic , to be more forward thinking , Brats , Beers , Hebrew dogs on me  if it is 2 K or better , I will pick you up @ the airport . Hoosier Hospitality

----------


## oyarde

Probably hit $1375 tonight ......

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> So if we get really high inflation, like 20-30%, we can buy US T-Bills with a 20-30% yield?


Probably.  One never knows, but based on the past: probably.  Also, based on logic and reason making certain reasonable assumptions: probably.  So in short: probably.

Consider this and see if you can come up with an answer for me: what happens if there is 20-30% inflation and the yields on T-Bills _aren't_ 20-30%?

----------


## Madison320

> Probably.  One never knows, but based on the past: probably.  Also, based on logic and reason making certain reasonable assumptions: probably.  So in short: probably.
> 
> Consider this and see if you can come up with an answer for me: what happens if there is 20-30% inflation and the yields on T-Bills _aren't_ 20-30%?


One option would be for the govt to report inflation to be be 5%.

If we do raise rates to 20% how will we pay the interest?

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Yes. When inflation topped ten percent in the late 1970's/ early 80's, Treasury bill rates were also over ten percent. *(if they ever do- stock up and lock in the high returns)*.  Investors include an expected rate of inflation in what they demand in interest rates and Tbill rates are based on auctions- what buyers are willing to pay. 
> 
> In 1981 (the highest rates), two year notes were paying 15.94%, five year notes 16.27% and ten years 15.84%.  http://bonds.about.com/od/government...eld-Charts.htm
> 
> The rate of inflation peaked at 14.76% in April of 1980. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...Inflation.aspx


Your post is correct except for the first parenthesis.  One cannot "lock in" high returns with treasury bills.  T-Bills are defined as all the treasury debt for durations under one year.  So after that year (or 3 months, or 6 months), your bill is done, that is over, and if you want to continue you must buy a new one at whatever the new rate is.  I suppose you could say you can "lock in" your rate for up to 12 months, but unless the inflation rate is being incredibly volatile, that will not be all that useful to you.

Now what _does_ let you lock in high rates is 30-year bonds.  And that is exactly what I recommended Madison buy in his hypothetical.  That is exactly what you would be buying using the Permanent Portfolio strategy.  Back in 1980 and 1981, Harry Browne was recommending people buy bonds.  Who else was recommending that?  No one, that's who.  Everyone -- to a man! -- _everyone_ knew that bonds were a horrible investment.  A surefire loser.  They _knew_ it.

Funny what people know.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> One option would be for the govt to report inflation to be be 5%.


 Think about it a little bit deeper than that.  What would *actually happen* if inflation is 20-30% and T-Bill yield is 5%?  The gov't can "report" whatever it wants.  Ask yourself what would happen under this scenario, and then ask yourself whether official gov't reported numbers would fundamentally change a darn thing about what you figured out would happen.




> If we do raise rates to 20% how will we pay the interest?


 Who is "we," Ke-mo sah-bee?  _I_ don't owe any interest to anyone, so I don't have to pay any at all.  If the US federal government has to pay higher interest rates on its outstanding debt, well then that is a problem for them, isn't it?  You ask me how they would deal with it?  If I were to guess: create more money.  That would be the path of least resistance.  Of course, they could also do the opposite and tighten the money supply -- destroy money.  Long-term, that would be the responsible thing to do -- it would lower the inflation and make the interest on the debt lower and more manageable.  I wouldn't count on them making the responsible choice (needless to say!), but nevertheless that _is_ the choice they made in the 1980s.  So one just never knows.  But probably they'd create more money and make it worse.

----------


## KingNothing

> It is intersting that rising housing prices means a bubble and rising gold prices are simply "what must happen".


It's also interesting that people view gold as an investment.  It isn't.  It is, at best, a hedge or a store of value.  It doesn't produce anything.

----------


## oyarde

> It's also interesting that people view gold as an investment.  It isn't.  It is, at best, a hedge or a store of value.  It doesn't produce anything.


In this environment , hedging and storing seem pretty reasonable .

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> It doesn't produce anything.


 _Sometimes_ it produces something.  A little something called: *returns*.  Sometimes it produces returns when it's very hard to get returns from anything else.  

See, for instance, umm, the entire decade from 2000-2010.  Pretty hard to get any return whatsoever from the stock market that decade.  The "Lost Decade" they call it.  But pretty easy to get a nice juicy return from gold.

See for another instance the entire decade from 1970-1980.  Again: stocks were kaput.  No real returns.  Bonds were awful.  What to be done?  Where could an investor turn?  Nothing was working.  Oh, but gold did a little bit well.  Just a tad.  From $35 to $800.  But who would want that?

----------


## KingNothing

> You're right it has nothing to with "world tension". Like you said there's always tension in the world. It has to due with simple econ 101. Supply and demand. As the supply of dollars goes up the price goes down.


Only if the demand remains equal.  Any number of things can increase or decrease the demand for dollars.  And counter to what many here would expect, when there is more uncertainty in the markets and the world, people have tended to run TOWARDS the dollar, not away from it.

For all our faults, we are still the strongest nation on Earth.  We still have the largest economy.  We still have the best central bank.  And our currency still has the largest market penetration.  We aren't a sure thing, but we're surer than everyone else.

----------


## oyarde

> _Sometimes_ it produces something.  A little something called: *returns*.  Sometimes it produces returns when it's very hard to get returns from anything else.  
> 
> See, for instance, umm, the entire decade from 2000-2010.  Pretty hard to get any return whatsoever from the stock market that decade.  The "Lost Decade" they call it.  But pretty easy to get a nice juicy return from gold.
> 
> See for another instance the entire decade from 1970-1980.  Again: stocks were kaput.  No real returns.  Bonds were awful.  What to be done?  Where could an investor turn?  Nothing was working.  Oh, but gold did a little bit well.  Just a tad.  From $35 to $800.  But who would want that?


 Twenty yrs out of 40.Too significant to ignore .

----------


## oyarde

$1369.50

----------


## KingNothing

> Twenty yrs out of 40.Too significant to ignore .



But, just picking a year here, if someone had $1000 to invest in 1990 and opted for a basket of S&P stocks, and continually re-invested dividends, they'd have a whole helluvalot more money now than someone who bought a couple ounces of gold.  It wouldn't even be close.

I definitely think that a person should invest in some commodities and that gold is a valid choice, but to think it should be the foundation of any portfolio or that it is some secret to becoming Uncle Moneybags is foolish.

----------


## oyarde

> But, just picking a year here, if someone had $1000 to invest in 1990 and opted for a basket of S&P stocks, and continually re-invested dividends, they'd have a whole helluvalot more money now than someone who bought a couple ounces of gold.  It wouldn't even be close.
> 
> I definitely think that a person should invest in some commodities and that gold is a valid choice, but to think it should be the foundation of any portfolio or that it is some secret to becoming Uncle Moneybags is foolish.


 I think you have to go both routes ( although I am not much of an s & p guy ). Most people are already putting money in the markets through a 401k I would imagine .That may be where all of many peoples savings are .

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Only if the demand remains equal.


 Exactly! 


> Any number of things can increase or decrease the demand for dollars.


 *Exactly!* Oh how many times I've tried to make this point.  No one I've made the attempt with has ever seemed to get it.




> And counter to what many here would expect, when there is more uncertainty in the markets and the world, people have tended to run TOWARDS the dollar, not away from it.


 True, true, true!

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> But, just picking a year here, if someone had $1000 to invest in 1990 and opted for a basket of S&P stocks, and continually re-invested dividends, they'd have a whole helluvalot more money now than someone who bought a couple ounces of gold.  It wouldn't even be close.


  Right, definitely.  Invest in gold in 1970?  Good.  1980?  Bad.  1990?  Bad again, as you say.  2000?  Good.  2010?  Time will tell.  Not looking so good lately.

Gold does well under certain economic conditions: namely, high-inflation.  Other times, it's probably going to be in the dog house.

The thing to realize is that _no_ asset does well _all_ the time.




> I definitely think that a person should invest in some commodities and that gold is a valid choice, but to think it should be the foundation of any portfolio or that it is some secret to becoming Uncle Moneybags is foolish.


 It is foolish to think that _any_ investment portfolio is going to be the secret to becoming Uncle Moneybags.  Uncle Moneybags becomes Uncle Moneybags via his career.  Probably via having an equity stake in his career.  _That's_ where the bags of money come from.  A portfolio is just a place to keep the bags of money safe and sound, and maybe growing at a moderate rate.  But you are absolutely, absolutely right: *it doesn't make you rich.*  No one invests 1000 dollars and ends up with a million.  It simply does not happen.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Twenty yrs out of 40.Too significant to ignore .


20 years of increases and 20 years of declines in the price of gold means you have a 50-50 chance of coming out ahead in a given year. Luck of the draw- the flip of a coin. What other investments have that poor of odds?

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Here was Ron Paul's gold prediction in 2013:

Ron Paul: Why Gold Will Explode Higher

Here's what actually happened:



Not looking too much like an explosion so far, is it?

----------


## oyarde

> 20 years of increases and 20 years of declines in the price of gold means you have a 50-50 chance of coming out ahead in a given year. Luck of the draw- the flip of a coin. What other investments have that poor of odds?


I gotta hedge Zip , it is my nature . Worked too hard to get caught high and dry .LOL

----------


## Zippyjuan

Certainly nothing wrong with that!

----------


## oyarde

Asian markets taking a beating too . $1369.20.

----------


## oyarde

$1385.30 , silver , $21.63 .

----------


## DFF

Gold is in a really nice uptrend. And silver is maybe starting to catch up.

----------


## matt0611

> Gold is in a really nice uptrend. And silver is maybe starting to catch up.


Yep, and I was almost going to pull the trigger when it was around $1200 recently. Darn..

----------


## mrsat_98

> Yep, and I was almost going to pull the trigger when it was around $1200 recently. Darn..


i got off a shot at $1200

----------


## oyarde

> i got off a shot at $1200


Makes a person feel a little better @ $1382 .

----------


## AFTFNJ

Gold 1381.80 Silver 21.39. Makes me wish I bought way more @ 1200 :-( Maybe if another country demands its  gold back from NY Fed we can see the price collapse again. Funny how that logic works oh but there is no Gold Fixing people put your Aluminum hats back on.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Here was Ron Paul's gold prediction in 2013:
> 
> Ron Paul: Why Gold Will Explode Higher
> 
> Here's what actually happened:
> 
> 
> 
> Not looking too much like an explosion so far, is it?


It's a little early to announce that he was wrong, isn't it?

----------


## KingNothing

> It's a little early to announce that he was wrong, isn't it?


If his timeline ended at 2013, no, it isn't.  If it keeps going, you can say he was wrong up to this point, though that could change.

The problem with predictions in such volatile environments is that the person making the prediction can always say "I TOLD YOU SO!" if he hangs around long enough.

----------


## AFTFNJ

Just watched glen beck and he was talking about Germany's repatriation of there gold and how Fed can't even deliver what was promised so far. It's going to be bad news if other countries want there gold back @ once. Not sure how long the gold price "fixing" can continue....

----------


## oyarde

$1382.80 .

----------


## oyarde

Looks fairly steady today , $1360.40 .

----------


## oyarde

Oil below $92 , Good .

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Just watched glen beck and he was talking about Germany's repatriation of there gold and how Fed can't even deliver what was promised so far. It's going to be bad news if other countries want there gold back @ once. Not sure how long the gold price "fixing" can continue....


Germany is satisfied with the rate of gold repatriation. It is the insurance companies which are limiting the transfer.  They will only insure one ton per trip and they have been making one delivery a week (on a changing schedule so the gold transit cannot be predicted).

To manipulate the price of gold on a global scale, one must buy and sell vast quaitities of it.  The Fed can't do that since they don't own ANY gold.

----------


## oyarde

Looking pretty solid today , though , if that oil price holds , that is going to start  hurting ....

----------


## oyarde

Oil , $99 , Dow , 16550 , Gold , $1294 .

----------


## oyarde

Looks like , $1304 .

----------


## oyarde

Last I checked , gold about $1320 1/2 , Corn still about $5 , Nat Gas $ 4.60, Copper over $3 , Oil North of the mid $90's. I would guess it will be a hard summer for lower earners on a fixed income . Rising food and energy prices .

----------


## oyarde

Looks like the Dow is about 16150 , Nasdaq below 4 , gold still over $1300 , oil , alarmingly high , still around $104 , Nat gas still over $4.50 , copper over $3
, wholesale gas , over $3 , one year oil forecast , nearing $120, heating oil , about $3 .

----------


## Brian4Liberty

They've done a good job of keeping silver under $20 lately. "Back up the truck!" I miss those old threads.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Gold was below $1300 earlier today (as low as $1291) after opening at $1320 in New York. ($1302 currently).

----------


## oyarde

Looks like , about $1316 this morning .

----------


## Zippyjuan

Gold falling a fair amount this week- currently down to $1255. Seems to have broken out of its $1300 range it was holding for a while.

----------


## oyarde

> Gold falling a fair amount this week- currently down to $1255. Seems to have broken out of its $1300 range it was holding for a while.


Oil set for $4 gas rest of summer it appears.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

I just wish more people had made actual predictions so that on December 31st, 2014, we could go back, see how utterly, cluelessly wrong they all were, and hopefully a few more of us could be convinced as to the uselessness of making predictions like this.  No one knows the future.  Really and truly, no one does.

----------


## Zippyjuan

I made a general but not specific prediction that it could possibly go down as far as $1000 this year.  So far, the direction is in my favor.  As of right now it is below $1250 ($1243 to be specific). Others laughed and said "No way- it is going even higher this year!".

Actually gold is pretty close to where it started the year- it did peak at almost $1400 in March.

----------


## oyarde

> I made a general but not specific prediction that it could possibly go down as far as $1000 this year.  So far, the direction is in my favor.  As of right now it is below $1250 ($1243 to be specific). Others laughed and said "No way- it is going even higher this year!".
> 
> Actually gold is pretty close to where it started the year- it did peak at almost $1400 in March.


 I am keeping the gold and expect to do well this yr  on eggs ,potatoes , peppers , tomatoes ,corn, popcorn , venison ,etc, lol

----------


## ctiger2

Gold is wealth insurance. I certainly don't want my house to burn down either.

----------


## oyarde

Looks like gold about $1245 , Crude about $102 , corn down to about $4.59 ( down about 7 cents ) .

----------


## Deborah K

> I made a general but not specific prediction that it could possibly go down as far as $1000 this year.  So far, the direction is in my favor.  As of right now it is below $1250 ($1243 to be specific). Others laughed and said "No way- it is going even higher this year!".
> 
> Actually gold is pretty close to where it started the year- it did peak at almost $1400 in March.


Yeah, well that's what happens when the market is manipulated.

----------


## Seraphim

Just released;

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ine-ft-reports

Yet another feather in the caps of those saying gold has been manipulated for a long time.




> Yeah, well that's what happens when the market is manipulated.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Yeah, well that's what happens when the market is manipulated.


no $#@!... wish a whistleblower would drop the truth on the planet. Til  then, these evil parasitic bastards will control the games and gambling,  of course, "THEY" are the House.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Yeah, well that's what happens when the market is manipulated.




The gold market is far too big to be effectively manipulated.  It is a global market.  The price of gold depends on the independent decisions and actions of billions of individuals.  The market is bigger than any of us.  It's bigger than the Fed.  It's bigger than the IMF.  The market -- those billions and billions of gold-buying and gold-selling individuals -- holds the trump card.  The market cannot be stopped.  The price of gold is what it is because of the market.

----------


## Deborah K

> The gold market is far too big to be effectively manipulated.  It is a global market.  The price of gold depends on the independent decisions and actions of billions of individuals.  The market is bigger than any of us.  It's bigger than the Fed.  It's bigger than the IMF.  The market -- those billions and billions of gold-buying and gold-selling individuals -- holds the trump card.  The market cannot be stopped.  The price of gold is what it is because of the market.


Explain this then:  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ine-ft-reports

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Just released;
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ine-ft-reports
> 
> Yet another feather in the caps of those saying gold has been manipulated for a long time.


As the article says, the manipulation was a very short time- a matter of a few minutes or even seconds.  Yes, over a very short period, small manipulations can occur in the market but they cannot be sustained over a long period. You need trillions of dollars to do that. They "nudged the index" in the article's words just moments before some options were due to expire.

Back in 1980 the Hunt brothers tried to control the silver market (along with some rich Arab backers).  They at one point had 90% of the world's silver (on paper) and still could not sustain their price manipulation of the market.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Explain this then:  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ine-ft-reports


It is a simple conflict-of-interest scandal at a company called Barclays.

My point is simple.  It is this:

The gold market is too big to manipulate.  Long-term, and even medium-term (week/month), and usually even short-term (intra-day), the global price of gold will always be the correct market price.

This scandal was, in fact, no exception.  Barclays is part of the market.  So they were placing a bunch of sell orders in tactically-timed bursts.  So what?  Nothing wrong with that.  People should be free to but and sell whatever they want whenever they want.  And did this practice "manipulate" the market in any effective way?  No.  What would the gold price be today had they _not_ been doing these antics?  The same as it is today!  It didn't change the price.

The only reason that this was a problem was because they were engaged in conflicts of interest, for example: carrying options contracts for particular gold prices and trying to change the price just barely enough for just long enough so that they wouldn't have to pay out.  That is a violation of the options contract, and besides is just bad form.

But it didn't change the gold price for any significant period of time nor to any significant degree.  The dollar amounts involved were far too small.

----------


## oyarde

> I made a general but not specific prediction that it could possibly go down as far as $1000 this year.  So far, the direction is in my favor.  As of right now it is below $1250 ($1243 to be specific). Others laughed and said "No way- it is going even higher this year!".
> 
> Actually gold is pretty close to where it started the year- it did peak at almost $1400 in March.


Probably down about $40 from 4/02 , or up about $55 from New Years .None of that seems too significant to me .Probably within about a percent ....

----------


## oyarde

Guess I may as well go fill up the truck , Crude up 1 1/2 percent , over $104 this morning , that will push gas over $4 I imagine .Gold pretty steady , around $1254. Demand in China and India could pick up later this yr.

----------


## oyarde

Gold looking steady now @ $1260.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Explain this then:  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ine-ft-reports


Any thoughts or response, Deborah?  Did my explanation convince you?  I'm guessing not.  But maybe!

----------


## oyarde

Gold looking strong today , about $1273.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Allow me to make a prediction:

Come December, if gold has gone way up, our friend Mr. Zippyjuan will _not_ come back, admit he was completely wrong, and rethink his thinking, nor change his mind about absolutely anything.  Nope.  It will just be "Well, this is a temporary anomaly in the market.  I will be proven right eventually; it's just a matter of time.

Likewise, if gold has gone way down, Madison320 and oyarde will not admit that they were wrong, nor change a single thing in their thinking.  The crash is coming, just a matter of time.

These beliefs are immune to reality.

----------


## oyarde

> Allow me to make a prediction:
> 
> Come December, if gold has gone way up, our friend Mr. Zippyjuan will _not_ come back, admit he was completely wrong, and rethink his thinking, nor change his mind about absolutely anything.  Nope.  It will just be "Well, this is a temporary anomaly in the market.  I will be proven right eventually; it's just a matter of time.
> 
> Likewise, if gold has gone way down, Madison320 and oyarde will not admit that they were wrong, nor change a single thing in their thinking.  The crash is coming, just a matter of time.
> 
> These beliefs are immune to reality.


Zip is not going anywhere . I  figure gold could be $1280 tomorrow night and silver $20 , gold could be $1400 or $1500 by the end of the yr , I have no idea , I will guess it to be closer to $1400 than $1000 though.LOL

----------


## oyarde

> Allow me to make a prediction:
> 
> Come December, if gold has gone way up, our friend Mr. Zippyjuan will _not_ come back, admit he was completely wrong, and rethink his thinking, nor change his mind about absolutely anything.  Nope.  It will just be "Well, this is a temporary anomaly in the market.  I will be proven right eventually; it's just a matter of time.
> 
> Likewise, if gold has gone way down, Madison320 and oyarde will not admit that they were wrong, nor change a single thing in their thinking.  The crash is coming, just a matter of time.
> 
> These beliefs are immune to reality.


 I work in reality and make money from it . I am just a coin collector , I buy and sell coins , on the side. Even if I am wrong , I still make money. What I sell does not go down .

----------


## oyarde

Well , the Nikkei is down about 219 and gold is $1282 .

----------


## oyarde

Gold @ $1299.30 , platinum @ $1460.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

A junior miner that I had my eye on picking up this morning is already up over 15 percent...

----------


## oyarde

> A junior miner that I had my eye on picking up this morning is already up over 15 percent...


Yeah , yesterday , not today would have been better for any purchases I imagine .

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Yeah , yesterday , not today would have been better for any purchases I imagine .


Or on 6/5, when I called a bottom... 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ttom-this-week

----------


## oyarde

> Or on 6/5, when I called a bottom... 
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ttom-this-week


That was my Birthday

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Hope you got a silver present!

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Did a lot of people click on the Amagimetals link this morning?  Seems they are doing maintenance,  or are overloaded.

----------


## oyarde

> Did a lot of people click on the Amagimetals link this morning?  Seems they are doing maintenance,  or are overloaded.


Seems it would be a good day to sell , hard to imagine maint ?

----------


## oyarde

> Did a lot of people click on the Amagimetals link this morning?  Seems they are doing maintenance,  or are overloaded.


looks like it is working now.

----------


## oyarde

They have a one ounce gold maple leaf listed at about spot ...... silver eagles about the same as my local guy .

----------


## Brian4Liberty

CEF discount has dropped from around 5% down to 2%. It hasn't been that low in a long time. A positive sign for metals.

----------


## flaversaver

> CEF discount has dropped from around 5% down to 2%. It hasn't been that low in a long time. A positive sign for metals.


When you say CEF, are you referring to CENTRAL FUND OF CANADA?

----------


## Zippyjuan

I see gold went back above $1300 yesterday.  More market manipulation? Or does that only work on the down side of prices? (likely due to the rapidly changing situation in Iraq).  http://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemc...iraq-escalate/

----------


## Brian4Liberty

...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> When you say CEF, are you referring to CENTRAL FUND OF CANADA?


Yes.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I see gold went back above $1300 yesterday.  More market manipulation? Or does that only work on the down side of prices? (likely due to the rapidly changing situation in Iraq).


It's due to the biggest manipulation of all, monetary inflation.

----------


## oyarde

> I see gold went back above $1300 yesterday.  More market manipulation? Or does that only work on the down side of prices? (likely due to the rapidly changing situation in Iraq).  http://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemc...iraq-escalate/


Maybe , or maybe because the Fed spoke this week .

----------


## Zippyjuan

The Fed did nothing unexpected so their meeting would have had little to no impact.

----------


## oyarde

> The Fed did nothing unexpected so their meeting would have had little to no impact.


I did not think it was unexpected.

----------


## Zippyjuan

What did you find unexpected?  http://online.wsj.com/articles/fed-u...tes-1403114981




> *Fed Keeps Rates Unchanged, Sees Eventual Rise in 2015, 2016*
> 
> Bond Purchases Are Reduced Again As Central Bankers See Signs of an Economy on the Mend


The DOW rose because investors liked what they saw in general.  All things being equal, that should have meant money moving out of gold (more confidence in the economy lowers interest in gold which is seen as a hedge against a bad economy) causing it to go down, not up.

----------


## buenijo

May as well try to predict the weather for 2014.

----------


## jon4liberty

Gold will be around 1370 by the end of the year.(Prediction)

----------


## oyarde

> Gold will be around 1370 by the end of the year.(Prediction)


Seems reasonable , pretty steady around $1320 now

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## jon4liberty

I believe a few weeks ago was the bottom for both Gold and Silver. By the end of the year most likely a jump will happen wont be drastic by any means though. Gold will be steady this year. Some gold and silver bugs kept telling me 1000/oz gold 8/oz silver will be the bottoms. I just couldn't and cannot see it taking that big of a hit. My bottom predictions were 1200 gold 18 silver i'm crossing my fingers hoping we don't drop any lower.

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## 2young2vote

Silver will finish under $24 and above $18 per oz.

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## oyarde

> Silver will finish under $24 and above $18 per oz.


 $20.83 now , so , yeah , I would be mildly surprised if it did not finish $20 or above .

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## Brian4Liberty

> Silver will finish under $24 and above $18 per oz.


Going out on a limb there, eh?

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## oyarde

Gold @ $1330 , this morning .

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## oyarde

Dow breaks 17 and gold still pretty steady around $1320 .

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## oyarde

$1339

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## Peter4Paul2016

Gold has been holding pretty steady... Nothing exciting going on.  But looking at a price chart from January 2014 to today, gold is Up @ $100...

Goldman Sachs is very bearish on precious metals...  If many believe this - maybe we can get a Dip & Buy

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## oyarde

Looks pretty steady , about $1311 .

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## Zippyjuan

End of year bump.  Everybody was kinda right. Gold went up.  It went down.  It finished pretty much where it started (I was wrong on it getting closer to $1000 an ounce).



http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

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