# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns >  Third-party support surging

## enhanced_deficit

Not good news for neocons/dronegansta/war criminals enabler/ 2-party scams lobbies:




July 31, 2016, 03:22 pm
*Third-party support surging*
By Ben Kamisar     

Voters now confronted with the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are making something abundantly clear: they want another option.
Surveys  over the last six weeks have found a steady but noticeable jump in  support for third-party candidates. The biggest beneficiary has been  Libertarian Gary Johnson,  who has shot up from 4.5 percent to 7.2 percent in RealClearPolitics  polling averages. Green Party candidate Jill Stein has also seen an  uptick since June — from 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent.

The surge  in support for a third-party candidate is adding a new element of  unpredictability into the presidential race. Should voters opt for a  third-party candidate in large numbers, it could potentially tip the  scales in crucial battleground states.Pollsters and political scientists say the deep malcontent with Clinton and Trump should give both candidates pause.
“The  fact that we have two major party candidates who are enormously  disliked by the electorate, enormously and equally disliked, creates the  opportunity for the minor party candidates to do better than they would  in other presidential elections,” said Peter Brown, assistant director  of the Quinnipiac University Poll.
“The minor party candidates can have great influence if the final race is very close.”
Pollsters  contacted by The Hill predicted that many of the voters now leaning  toward a third-party candidate would eventually side with Trump or  Clinton by Election Day.
But they caution that the volatility of the race and the low favorability ratings for both candidates mean anything is possible.
So far, it’s unclear whether Trump or Clinton will benefit most from a strong third-party vote.  
There are voters in each party who feel spurned by their party's ticket — Republicans who refuse to side with Trump, and Bernie Sanders supporters who feel their candidate did not get a fair shake in the Democratic primary.
Conventional  wisdom has held that votes for the Libertarian ticket would hurt  Republicans, while Green Party votes would do damage to the Democrats.
That dynamic is borne out by recent polling. A CNN survey  released last week found that 17 percent of Republican voters who  didn’t back Trump in the primary now support Johnson, while only 4  percent of Democrats disgruntled with Clinton supported him. Stein,  meanwhile, took 6 percent support among voters who backed Bernie Sanders  in the Democratic primaries.  
Monmouth’s poll from the start of  the GOP convention also found Johnson pulling more from conservative  voters than from liberals, while the reverse held true for Stein.


http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...upport-surging


Could this be the historic year when  a woman candidate for Presidency becomes the real  possibility?

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## r3volution 3.0

This is what it's all about for libertarians at this point.

The Presidency was lost on February 3rd when Rand dropped. 

From that moment, it was 100% certain that a criminal or a retard (retarded criminal?) was going to be the next President.

Now, however, the question is, _how much can we get?_ 

If we get 5%, automatic ballot access.

...that's very good. 

But, if we _win_ a state_....
_
*...everything changes.*

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## presence

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...upport-surging




> Voters now confronted with the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are making something abundantly clear: they want another option.
> Surveys  over the last six weeks have found a steady but noticeable jump in  support for third-party candidates. The biggest beneficiary has been  Libertarian Gary Johnson,  who has shot up from 4.5 percent to 7.2 percent in RealClearPolitics  polling averages. Green Party candidate Jill Stein has also seen an  uptick since June  from 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent.
> The surge  in support for a third-party candidate is adding a new element of  unpredictability into the presidential race. Should voters opt for a  third-party candidate in large numbers, it could potentially tip the  scales in crucial battleground states.Pollsters and political scientists say the deep malcontent with Clinton and Trump should give both candidates pause.
> The  fact that we have _two major party candidates who are enormously  disliked_ by the electorate, enormously and equally disliked, creates the  opportunity for the minor party candidates to do better than they would  in other presidential elections, said Peter Brown, assistant director  of the Quinnipiac University Poll.
> 
> The minor party candidates can have great influence if the final race is very close.
> Pollsters  contacted by The Hill predicted that many of the voters now leaning  toward a third-party candidate would eventually side with Trump or  Clinton by Election Day.
> But they caution that the volatility of the race and the low favorability ratings for both candidates mean anything is possible.
> So far, its unclear whether Trump or Clinton will benefit most from a strong third-party vote.  
> ...

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## LibertyEagle

So vote for the retard, Johnson.  Hell yeah!  A real win for liberty.


================
Gary Johnson supports the Trans Pacific Partnership.  That makes him a traitor.

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## Ender

> So vote for the retard, Johnson.  Hell yeah!  A real win for liberty.
> 
> 
> ================
> Gary Johnson supports the Trans Pacific Partnership.  That makes him a traitor.


Where is your educated argument? The one you always call for regarding Trump?

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## Natural Citizen

Well. I certainly understand the protest vote. We saw record numbers during the 2014 Mid-Term elections that support this trend. If I'm going to vote in protest, though, I'd tend to do so in Liberty and in favor of the more principled candidate. And that would be the Constitution Party Candidate, Darrell Castle. Not Johnson.

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## surf

> Well. I certainly understand the protest vote. We saw record numbers during the 2014 Mid-Term elections that support this trend. If I'm going to vote in protest, though, I'd tend to do so in Liberty and in favor of the more principled candidate. And that would be the Constitution Party Candidate, Darrell Castle. Not Johnson.


well thanks for pissing on my cheerios.

i'm just not sure why you'd waste your vote by voting for Castle though. that's a vote for Clinton! and don't forget that this is the most important election of your lifetime.

i'm joking. i'm trying to get folks to vote 3rd by telling them that if they don't - they are endorsing war. if they do, they favor peace. very much hoping we can get Johnson on a stage with those republicratic bumblefucks.

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## TheTexan

Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though

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## euphemia

Darrell Castle.

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## cindy25

the key number is 15% by Sept so Johnson (or Stein) get debate status. even though I lean Trump I would love to see Johnson in the debates, and even win a state

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## undergroundrr

Darrell Castle is awesome.  He's a great option for principled voters.

Strategically, I hope the protest vote goes to the LP.  A vote for Castle is probably more likely to take from trump.  A vote for Johnson has been repeatedly shown to be more likely to take from Clinton, while it would weaken the republicrat mandate just that bit and buttress third party support.

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## notsure

...

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## Origanalist

> Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though


He has anarchy written all over him.

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## Suzanimal

> Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though





> He has anarchy written all over him.


Good thing he has Weld to balance the ticket.

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## Origanalist

> Good thing he has Weld to balance the ticket.





> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Suzanimal again.


///

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## CaptUSA

How ironic is it that the first time the LP actually has a shot in the debates, real libertarians are fleeing the ticket as quickly as possible?

I suppose this was bound to happen.  In order to make the LP palatable to the GOP and Dem faithful, they had to pick a Gary Johnson-type that pisses us off.  <great>

So the LP becomes an alternative party that really isn't even an alternative anymore.  Oh well, maybe if they can raise their cred a little, a real liberty candidate will be able to take the reins in a future election.  I suppose it could help in lower level offices as well.

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## CaptUSA

> So vote for the retard, Johnson.  Hell yeah!  A real win for liberty.


And here we go again, with the Trump supporter criticizing Johnson...  

(FYI, we know why you're doing this and it has nothing to do with libertarian principles.)

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## notsure

> He has anarchy written all over him.


Forcing bakers to bake gay/nazi wedding cakes, TPP, Kony 2012; he's a real "rebel without a cause".

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## Occam's Banana

> A vote for Johnson has been repeatedly shown to be more likely to take from Clinton [...]


That claim is contradicted by the OP article:



> Conventional wisdom has held that votes for the Libertarian ticket would hurt Republicans, while Green Party votes would do damage to the Democrats. That dynamic is borne out by recent polling. A CNN survey released last week found that 17 percent of Republican voters who didn’t back Trump in the primary now support Johnson, while only 4 percent of Democrats disgruntled with Clinton supported him.


Are there other credible polls indicating the reverse dynamic?

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## euphemia

> Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though


He's not a libertarian.

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## euphemia

> Oh well, maybe if they can raise their cred a little


What cred?  They were supposed to come up with good candidates.  Epic fail, this time.  

For true libertarians, the only option looks to be Castle, even if it's a write in.

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## Suzanimal

> He's not a libertarian.


That's why he picked Bill Weld. He's THE Libertarian.

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## Occam's Banana

> That's why he picked Bill Weld. He's THE Libertarian.


The ORIGINAL libertarian.

Or, no, wait ... the ORIGINAL Libertarian ... ?

(These things are so confusing ...)

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## euphemia

> That's why he picked Bill Weld. He's THE Libertarian.


No doubt.  

What really bothers me is that there are people who think this is okay.  They're like 90% libertarian.  That's like saying a hamburger is 90% beef.  What's the other 10%.  If it's dog poop, guess what?  You have yourself a poopburger.

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## CaptUSA

> No doubt.  
> 
> What really bothers me is that there are people who think this is okay.  They're like 90% libertarian.  That's like saying a hamburger is 90% beef.  What's the other 10%.  If it's dog poop, guess what?  You have yourself a poopburger.


Agreed.  I think the hope is that if America tries a poopburger with a little less poop, they may want to try another one in the future.   And that future burger may have even less poop.  (Unfortunately, America has a pretty big appetite for poopburgers.  They've been raised on them for generations.)

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## euphemia

> Agreed.  I think the hope is that if America tries a poopburger with a little less poop, they may want to try another one in the future.   And that future burger may have even less poop.  (Unfortunately, America has a pretty big appetite for poopburgers.  They've been raised on them for generations.)


That sounds very desperate.

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## CaptUSA

> That sounds very desperate.


I think that's the LP slogan.

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## Champ

Johnson has been in the 9-13% range in 3 way polling over the last 3 months.  He's going to have to do something more than what he has been doing because the numbers are pretty much flat lining in that range.

Jill Stein is also starting to pick up some momentum after the e-mail shenanigans and the Bernie debacle, which may end up hurting Johnson's numbers.

I'm beginning to think GJ isn't going to make the debates unless he changes strategy to get more people's attention and he does so immediately.  Doing interviews where he comes across as awkward and stuttering and doesn't get the message out in a clean and concise way, is not helping him gain ground.

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## 69360

> No doubt.  
> 
> What really bothers me is that there are people who think this is okay.  They're like 90% libertarian.  That's like saying a hamburger is 90% beef.  What's the other 10%.  If it's dog poop, guess what?  You have yourself a poopburger.


You see the glass half empty don't you?

A presidential candidate that is 90% good and you aren't satisfied? People like you will achieve nothing.

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## enhanced_deficit

> So vote for the retard, Johnson.  Hell yeah!  A real win for liberty.
> 
> 
> ================
> Gary Johnson supports the Trans Pacific Partnership.  That makes him a traitor.



To be clear, I'm by no means suggesting anyone should support Johnson and I'm not convinced about him either. 

Will be finding out more about Jill Stein, the historic first woman candidate of GP that media is doing balckout of.

BTW, 3rd party spike seems to be being driven by anti-war Bernie supporters and seems to be hurting neocon's preferred puppet SWC Hillary most. This is a good development for many reasons overall.

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## undergroundrr

> Are there other credible polls indicating the reverse dynamic?


Yeah, when it first happened a few months ago, I thought it was an isolated thing, but it keeps happening.

Note that the first couple come from "news sources" that would probably rather Clinton won:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b01180b5312ad2



> Clinton loses over 4 percentage points to Johnson, going from 43.9 percent in questions without any explicit mention of him to 39.6 percent with the Libertarian in the picture. Trump drops more than 3 points, from 42.6 percent to 39.2 percent, when Johnson is a named option in the poll.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...nton-or-trump/



> The majority of pollsters (12) have Clinton’s margin over Trump shrinking when at least one third-party candidate is included. The difference in margins, however, varies among pollsters, and a few, such as Ipsos, have Clinton’s lead rising by the tiniest of bits when at least Johnson is included. Overall, including third-party candidates takes about 1 percentage point away from Clinton’s margin, on average.


http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presid...clinton-trump/



> Quinnipiac University released a poll on Wednesday showing a general election toss-up, with Clinton holding a slight four point edge over Trump, 45-41. When third party candidates Gary Johnson and the Green Party’s Jill Stein were added, Clinton’s edge dropped to two points, 40-38. Johnson captured 5 percent, while Stein earned 3 percent.


A little unrelated but:
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/inde...natch_the.html



> This is where Johnson comes in. The New York Times' 269-269 election tie has Utah going for Trump. But an internal poll for a Republican congresswoman in the state has Johnson at 26 percent there, just a few points behind Trump and Clinton. In a normal year, Utah is a safe Republican state. But Mormon voters really don't like Trump (2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, a Mormon, famously lambasted him earlier this year), so Johnson really could win in Utah.

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## jllundqu

h/t Angela

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## presence

> Will be finding out more about Jill Stein, the historic first woman candidate of GP that media is doing balckout of.


..




> *Key points of the Power to the People Plan:
> **A Green New Deal:
> *Create millions of jobs by transitioning to 100% clean renewable  energy by 2030, and investing in public transit, sustainable  agriculture, and conservation.
> 
> *Jobs as a Right:
> *Create living-wage jobs for every American who needs work, replacing  unemployment offices with employment offices. Advance workers rights to  form unions, achieve workplace democracy, and keep a fair share of the  wealth they create.
> *End Poverty:
> *Guarantee economic human rights, including access to food, water,  housing, and utilities, with effective anti-poverty programs to ensure  every American a life of dignity.
> 
> ...

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## bunklocoempire

> He has anarchy written all over him.


lol

Yeah, and it's all written in a delicious frosting piped in a 100% consistent manner on his jacket by gay nazis... er, I mean, sinful individuals given the power over other sinful men.

Friggin' Johnson.

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## enhanced_deficit

#JillNotHill is spreading fast and remaking the liberal/anti-war  landscape ahead of coming elections.  Many Bernie supporters are moving  to Jill Stein, a new kind of 3rd party candidate who is rising fast. Not  good news for war lobbies/Hillary:

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=%23jillnothill&src  =typd

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## Son_of_Liberty90

> *Health Care as a Right:
> 
> 
> Establish an improved “Medicare For All” single-payer public health insurance program to provide everyone with quality health care, at huge savings.
> Education as a Right:
> 
> 
> Abolish student debt to free a generation of Americans from debt servitude. Guarantee tuition-free, world-class public education from pre-school through university. End high stakes testing and public school privatization.*


This is why the Bernie Sanders ppl are moving to this camp. But if it takes votes away from HRC, then I guess A+

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## Son_of_Liberty90

> Johnson has been in the 9-13% range in 3 way polling over the last 3 months.  He's going to have to do something more than what he has been doing because the numbers are pretty much flat lining in that range.
> 
> Jill Stein is also starting to pick up some momentum after the e-mail shenanigans and the Bernie debacle, which may end up hurting Johnson's numbers.
> 
> I'm beginning to think GJ isn't going to make the debates unless he changes strategy to get more people's attention and he does so immediately.  Doing interviews where he comes across as awkward and stuttering and doesn't get the message out in a clean and concise way, is not helping him gain ground.


Yea, he needs to pick up steam

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## Zippyjuan

> This is why the Bernie Sanders ppl are moving to this camp. But if it takes votes away from HRC, then I guess A+


She is only getting about six percent of Sander's supporters so far. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...upport-surging That isn't that much. 




> That dynamic is borne out by recent polling. A CNN survey released last week found that* 17 percent of Republican voters who didn’t back Trump in the primary now support Johnson*, while only 4 percent of Democrats disgruntled with Clinton support him. *Stein, meanwhile, took 6 percent support among voters who backed Sanders in the Democratic primaries*.

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## H. E. Panqui

enhanced deficit writes: *#JillNotHill is spreading fast and remaking the liberal/anti-war landscape ahead of coming elections. Many Bernie supporters are moving to Jill Stein, a new kind of 3rd party candidate who is rising fast. Not good news for war lobbies/Hillary: 

*

...good points...not good news for trump or the stinking republicans either as their proposed 'defense'  budget$ are the same/larger than those supported by democrats... 

...i sense a lot of people here favor the miserable goddamned fools/puppets with r's after there names over the 'd' village idiots...

....i will note that there appeared to be a sizable % of the recent democrat convention delegates who were passionately expressing a yearning for "NO MORE WARS"...(yeah, i know..naive...part of the problem themselves...yada...

...i will also note i didn't hear any "no more war" from that bunch of goddamned fool republican trumpencees....

...btw, 'The Libertarian Party Inc.' is a somewhat tiny organization that could be/has been easily manipulated/dominated..if i'm not mistaken there are less than 1000 people nationwide who 'make the major decisions' every 4 year cycle...essentially...as i understand, my state and many other states have many unfilled delegate slots every year...i've been asked and turned it down..i'm part of the problem...

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## clint4liberty

Gary Johnson has called for at least reforming the TPP.

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