# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  Hydrogenated fats replaced by tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ), is this a good thing?

## Brian4Liberty

So the food industry has somewhat quietly been replacing partially and fully hydrogenated oils with tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ). Is this good news?

Many people assume that hydrogenated oils have been replaced by unprocessed vegetable oils, or even traditional shortening (lard). That is not always the case. Hydrogenation was an experimental attempt to take rancid vegetable oil, and harden it for use in soap. What they discovered was that the "rancid" odor and flavor was removed by hydrogenation. And wow, it looked just like lard. Why not try to feed it to people? They fed it to Mikey, and he didn't die (right away). And the rancid flavor never came back. It preserved the oil. Time to put it into everything? Rancid waste oil now had a place to go (your stomach).

So it turns out that hydrogenated oil isn't so easy for the body to process, and eventually it clogs your arteries. Not so good.

So without hydrogenation as a preservative to give food an infinite shelf-life, what should they do? Why not add a petroleum byproduct? There hasn't been a better use for industrial waste since MTBE. Time to try the preservative TBHQ. What could it possibly harm?

TBHQ is primarily produced in China and India. The FDA approved TBHQ for use in food in 1972, so it must be safe. It's use is expanding due to reduced use of hydrogenation to preserve oils and fats.

From Wikipedia:




> TBHQ is a highly effective antioxidant.[1] In foods, it is used as a preservative for unsaturated vegetable oils and many edible animal fats.[2] It does not cause discoloration even in the presence of iron, and does not change flavor or odor of the material to which it is added.[1] It can be combined with other preservatives such as butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA). As a food additive, its E number is E319. It is added to a wide range of foods, with the highest limit (1000 mg/kg) permitted for frozen fish and fish products. Its primary advantage is enhancing storage life.
> 
> It is used industrially as a stabilizer to inhibit autopolymerization of organic peroxides. In perfumery, it is used as a fixative to lower the evaporation rate and improve stability. It is also added to varnishes, lacquers, resins, and oil field additives.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Butylhydroquinone


Some examples from fast food (note: hydrogenation still used):




> Chicken Selects® Premium Breast Strip:
> Chicken breast strips with rib meat, water, seasoning [potato starch, salt, autolyzed yeast extract, maltodextrin, chicken broth, natural flavors (plant and animal
> source), spice, chicken fat, sunflower lecithin], sodium phosphates. Battered and breaded with: wheat flour, water, food starch-modified, leavening (baking soda,
> sodium aluminum phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, sodium acid pyrophosphate), spices, salt, modified cellulose gum, wheat gluten, garlic powder, onion powder,
> soybean oil, xanthan gum, spice extractives, extractives of paprika (color).
> CONTAINS: WHEAT.
> Prepared in vegetable oil (Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness). Dimethylpolysiloxane
> added as an antifoaming agent.
> -----
> ...


A popular kids pastry:




> ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], RIBOFLAVIN [VITAMIN B2], FOLIC ACID), CORN SYRUP, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, DEXTROSE, *SOYBEAN AND PALM OIL (WITH TBHQ FOR FRESHNESS)*, SUGAR, CONTAINS TWO PERCENT OR LESS OF CRACKER MEAL, WHEAT STARCH, SALT, DRIED STRAWBERRIES, DRIED PEARS, DRIED APPLES, CORNSTARCH, LEAVENING (BAKING SODA, SODIUM ACID PYROPHOSPHATE, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE), CITRIC ACID, CORN CEREAL, GELATIN, PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED SOYBEAN OIL, CARAMEL COLOR, MODIFIED CORN STARCH, SOY LECITHIN, XANTHAN GUM, MODIFIED WHEAT STARCH, TRICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, COLOR ADDED, TURMERIC COLOR, VITAMIN A PALMITATE, RED #40, NIACINAMIDE, REDUCED IRON, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6), YELLOW #6, RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), THIAMIN HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B1), FOLIC ACID, BLUE #1.LESS THAN 0.5g TRANS FAT PER SERVING


What Is a TBHQ Preservative?




> What Is a TBHQ Preservative?
> 
> Overview
> 
> Ever since Michael Pollan's book "The Omnivore's Dilemma" hit the shelves, the safety of the preservative tertiary butylhydroquinone, or TBHQ, has been an object of contention. A common ingredient in Chicken McNuggets and other preserved foods, it is not harmful at the levels that are permitted in foods; the FDA's limits on TBHQ in food prevent ill effects and toxicity.
> 
> Uses
> 
> TBHQ is a synthetic antioxidant that is used to extend the shelf life of oily and fatty foods. In processed foods, it's sprayed on the food or on its packaging to prevent discoloration and changes to flavor and odor. Others products, such as cosmetics, perfumes, varnishes and lacquers, contain TBHQ to maintain stability.
> ...

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## Acala

Saying that TBHQ is a form of butane is SO amazingly ignorant of basic organic chemistry that it really casts doubt on anything else the guy might have said.  Too bad because I probably agree with much of it.

Oh, and avoiding foods that are oily and fatty is not only NOT good for your health, it will kill you.  You will die if you don't get enough fat in your diet.

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## amy31416

> Saying that TBHQ is a form of butane is SO amazingly ignorant of basic organic chemistry that it really casts doubt on anything else the guy might have said.  Too bad because I probably agree with much of it.
> 
> Oh, and avoiding foods that are oily and fatty is not only NOT good for your health, it will kill you.  You will die if you don't get enough fat in your diet.


+rep

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## dannno

> Saying that TBHQ is a form of butane is SO amazingly ignorant of basic organic chemistry that it really casts doubt on anything else the guy might have said.  Too bad because I probably agree with much of it.
> 
> Oh, and avoiding foods that are oily and fatty is not only NOT good for your health, it will kill you.  You will die if you don't get enough fat in your diet.


There is nothing wrong with oils from meats and many vegetables, but I'm convinced transfats are bad for you.

I would also imagine TBHQ is bad, but that's an assumption on my part.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Saying that TBHQ is a form of butane is SO amazingly ignorant of basic organic chemistry that it really casts doubt on anything else the guy might have said.  Too bad because I probably agree with much of it.
> 
> Oh, and avoiding foods that are oily and fatty is not only NOT good for your health, it will kill you.  You will die if you don't get enough fat in your diet.


Yep, the butane relationship is nonsense, and I included that quote to dispel any rumors to that effect. It isn't butane, but that still doesn't make it something I want to ingest.

Have you seen the documentary "Fathead"? It's interesting, and talks about the need for a balanced diet that includes protein and fat. The traditional food pyramid is too carb heavy.

While some fats are required for a healthy diet (everything in moderation), it's also important to point out that hydrogenated oils are not required by the body in any amount. The body also does not require a daily dose of TBHQ or BHT (imported from China). Excessively processed foods like those listed in the OP shouldn't be considered a regular part of a healthy diet.

Personally, I prefer fresh lean meats, olive oil, real butter, nuts, avocado, dairy, eggs, ground flax seed, real peanut butter, etc for "healthy" fats. Occasional fast foods won't kill you, but I would still consider them something to avoid in general.

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## Brian4Liberty

> +rep


I was expecting you!  So what do think? What should the daily dosage be for TBHQ?

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## Brian4Liberty

> There is nothing wrong with oils from meats and many vegetables, but I'm convinced transfats are bad for you.
> 
> I would also imagine TBHQ is bad, but that's an assumption on my part.


Yep trans (hydrogenated) fats are bad for you.

TBHQ is certainly not a food or essential dietary element. It depends on the dosage. You could spray a tiny bit of Raid Ant and Roach Killer on your salad everyday and you might not feel the effect (the farmer probably already left some residual pesticide anyway). TBHQ is limited to micro-levels by the FDA due to it's known hazards. Once they start adding it to everything, how much does it build-up? What are it's long term effects?

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## Working Poor

maddog! What is wrong with people allowing all this crap to be put in our foods it really pisses me off every time I read something about it. But I am glad that I still care about it a lot of people could care less about it.

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## Acala

> There is nothing wrong with oils from meats and many vegetables, but I'm convinced transfats are bad for you.
> 
> I would also imagine TBHQ is bad, but that's an assumption on my part.


Agreed.  They seemed to be saying that naturally oily and fatty foods should be avoided.  I disagree with that.  But agree that tranfats should be avoided like the plague.  I can't say one way or the other about the dangers of TBHQ, but why WOULD I eat it?

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## Acala

> Have you seen the documentary "Fathead"? It's interesting, and talks about the need for a balanced diet that includes protein and fat. The traditional food pyramid is too carb heavy.
> 
> While some fats are required for a healthy diet (everything in moderation), it's also important to point out that hydrogenated oils are not required by the body in any amount. The body also does not require a daily dose of TBHQ or BHT (imported from China). Excessively processed foods like those listed in the OP shouldn't be considered a regular part of a healthy diet.


I have not seen "Fathead" but I am now a devoted adherent to the "primal" lifestyle which excludes everything on the above list of food containing TBHQ or transfats.  It also excludes grain, legumes, industrial meat, industrial vegetable oils, and looks askance at dairy.  Organic vegetables, organic fruit, and meat from the pasture.  Bring on the fat!  As long as it is something a paleolithic man would recognize.  See Mark's Daily Apple for more information.

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## Bern

Generally, the more processed the food, the worse it is for you.

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## Acala

> Generally, the more processed the food, the worse it is for you.


That is a pretty good rule of thumb.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Generally, the more processed the food, the worse it is for you.


Yep. And the more likely it is to contain non-food ingredients.

The fact that most of these preservatives like TBHQ are made in China is a concern. They do not have a good history with safety or ethics when it comes to food and water additives. We have stories about supposed "fluoride" from China that has been added to US water supplies that is not really fluoride. And of course the melamine in baby formula and pet food.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I have not seen "Fathead" but I am now a devoted adherent to the "primal" lifestyle which excludes everything on the above list of food containing TBHQ or transfats.


It's a funny movie, kind of a response to "Super Size Me". The one real fact that can be taken away from the movie is that healthy dietary fat (and protein) is not as bad as people think it is, and massive carbs are not as good as people have said in the past. Although he uses eating McDonald's burgers as an example (avoids fries), he does eventually add that the preservatives and trans fats in fast food really aren't good for you.

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## amy31416

> I was expecting you!  So what do think? What should the daily dosage be for TBHQ?


Personally, I plan on avoiding it due to some studies that show it can increase stomach cancers at higher doses. Of course, in small amounts it shouldn't be harmful, but over time? We just don't know. More importantly, I'll avoid giving it to my daughter. So...can't give a "dosage" that I think is safe...

I learned my lesson with the whole trans fats debacle being touted as "healthy" when it was just the opposite. This stuff is chemically an antioxidant, but that doesn't mean that your body will recognize it and not have some bad reaction to it.

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## amy31416

> Generally, the more processed the food, the worse it is for you.


Most people think that way until they're confronted with vegetarian/vegan meat "substitutes," then they suddenly think it's healthy. Can you imagine the sort of chemical hoops you have to jump through to get a bean to taste like a hamburger or a hot dog? I can, and I wouldn't eat that crap.

Gross.

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## amy31416

> Yep trans (hydrogenated) fats are bad for you.
> 
> TBHQ is certainly not a food or essential dietary element. It depends on the dosage. You could spray a tiny bit of Raid Ant and Roach Killer on your salad everyday and you might not feel the effect (the farmer probably already left some residual pesticide anyway). TBHQ is limited to micro-levels by the FDA due to it's known hazards. Once they start adding it to everything, how much does it build-up? What are it's long term effects?


Spot on. It is insoluble in water, and obviously soluble in fats...so here's the questions--does it get stored in your fat cells? Does the liver remove and retain the molecule? What other molecules will it readily react with to produce different molecules...

Just too many unanswered questions--I'll try to stick with time tested foods, and will certainly avoid additives from China as much as possible.

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## Acala

> I learned my lesson with the whole trans fats debacle being touted as "healthy" when it was just the opposite. This stuff is chemically an antioxidant, but that doesn't mean that your body will recognize it and not have some bad reaction to it.


Yup.  Pretty funny that some of the same groups screaming about transfats now were the ones screaming FOR transfats to replace saturated fats thirty years ago. 

There are PLENTY of antioxidants available in fresh fruit and vegetables.  No need to get them from a lab.

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## Brian4Liberty

> There are PLENTY of antioxidants available in fresh fruit and vegetables.  No need to get them from a lab.


Natural antioxidant preservatives can be derived from fruits and vegetables. Of course preservatives derived from petroleum and manufactured in China are so much cheaper.

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## Brian4Liberty

> So...can't give a "dosage" that I think is safe...


Looks like the oral LD50 for TBHQ ranges from 480 to 1000 mg/kg for rats...

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## Nirvikalpa

> *Saying that TBHQ is a form of butane is SO amazingly ignorant of basic organic chemistry that it really casts doubt on anything else the guy might have said*.  Too bad because I probably agree with much of it.
> 
> Oh, and avoiding foods that are oily and fatty is not only NOT good for your health, it will kill you.  You will die if you don't get enough fat in your diet.


^ This, to the extreme.

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## Brian4Liberty

Bump...

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## tod evans

> Bump...


I miss Amypi.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I miss Amypi.


She was one of the good ones...

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## Brian4Liberty

Related:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...oleum-Chemical

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