# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Trump Goes to War Against Iran

## Brian4Liberty

Trump Authorized Strike That Killed Iran’s Soleimani: Pentagon




> President Trump authorized strike that killed Iran’s Qassem Soleimani : Pentagon
> 
> *Soleimani was developing plans to attack U.S. diplomats and service members in Iraq: Pentagon
> 
> *The strike was aimed at deterring future Iranian attack plans: Pentagon
> 
> Qassem Soleimani, leader of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ foreign wing, was killed in a strike on his convoy in Iraq, an attack his Iraqi allies blamed on the U.S.
> 
> Top Iraqi paramilitary commander Abu Mahdi al-Mohandes was killed alongside Mr. Soleimani when their convoy was struck on the road leading to Baghdad International Airport.
> ...

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## nikcers

> First off...WE are the largest terrorist organization on this planet. Secondly....WE shouldn't be meddling in the middle east to begin with. We have no business being there.  This was a blatant act of war and there will be blowback from this assassination. Of course, this is what THEY want. Trump is just another warhawk
>  neocon and no further proof is needed for this fact.


Iran threatened to close the strait of hormuz and went into Iraq to take over their government when their economy started to get worse and was giving weapons and money to terrorists that are responsible for the death of Americans. Trump took out ISIS and said we arent going to play terrorist games when he got into office. He asked Iran nicely to stop sponsoring terrorism. We called our dogs off and they kept breeding theirs.

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## Brian4Liberty



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## Ender

> We have business in Iraq. We defeated their government in war. Iran sponsored the deaths of Americans in that war.


That war is completely unconstitutional & was started based on lies.

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## AngryCanadian

> Iran will send the Jihad Clarion Call throughout the Muslim World.


Iran is a Shia not Sunni, the Sunni proxy group radicals are in Syria. The shia are fighting sunni radicals.

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## AngryCanadian

Iran wont be a cakewalk!

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## Pauls' Revere

> Iran is a Shia not Sunni, the Sunni radicals are in Syria.


What's a Shia equivalent?

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## Zippyjuan

> Yep.
> 
> It was obvious where Trump stood on Iran during his campaign & then pulling* immediately out of the Iran Deal when he was in office.* Also- sanctions are an act of war & should never have been put on Iran, They have done nothing but protect their own area/borders.


Trump withdrew from a deal preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons because he wanted to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons. Trump logic? It was an Obama deal. Anything Obama was bad.  He would like to get the same deal but with his own name on it.   After he quit the deal- rather than try to renegotiate a new one while the other one is still in effect-, Iran started to no longer abide by its terms so he put sanctions on them for not abiding the treaty he walked away from.   Then he bombs a group supported by Iran who in response to that, protest at the US Embassy in Iraq.   In retaliation to that, he kills a top Iranian general. 

Meanwhile, his "deal" which never was with North Korea to halt their nuclear program is now shown as a sham as well.  Trump proclaimed he had solved that problem after just one meeting with Kim.  This week he also announced another "deal" which is not really a deal with China.   The "extensive agreement" takes us back to just three months ago in terms of the trade war. Nothing really changes but he declares victory anyways.  Things are changing in regards to Iran- and not in a good way.

Iran was part of GW Bush's "Axis of Evil".  Looks like Trump is picking up that torch.  North Korea, Iran, and Iraq.




> “States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.”


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...l-2002-1127725

That is how we got into Iraq and Afghanistan.

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## Swordsmyth

> The embassy was attacked because he bombed Syria and Iraqi backed troops in Iraq.  Now he has killed one of their top generals.  He isn't exactly promoting peace with them.


He can't do nothing while the deepstate and Iran arrange provocations or he will lose in 2020.

He is doing things short of war instead of declaring war as the deepstate wants.

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## vita3

This is most serious act of war against Iran America had ever took imo 

Solemani wanted to be a martyr

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## Pauls' Revere

20 companies profiting the most from war.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...cid=spartanntp

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## AngryCanadian

> He can't do nothing while the deepstate and Iran arrange provocations or he will lose in 2020.
> 
> He is doing things short of war instead of declaring war as the deepstate wants.


Sorry to say bud but Trump is more likely going to lose in 2020.. I have no faith. He pulled of the deal for the wrong reasons and that nuclear deal was even pushed by Russia, China, India with America under the Obama admin both nations came.

I am sure NeoCons must be joyful right now.

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## Swordsmyth

> Sorry to say bud but Trump is more likely going to lose in 2020..


LOL




> I have no faith. He pulled of the deal for the wrong reasons and that nuclear deal was even pushed by Russia, China, India with America under the Obama admin both nations came.
> 
> I am sure NeoCons must be joyful right now.


They are angry that he did something other than declare war on Iran and start bombing.
Just like all the other times they had Iran try to provoke us into war.

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## Zippyjuan

> Sorry to say bud but Trump is more likely going to lose in 2020.. I have no faith. He pulled of the deal for the wrong reasons and that nuclear deal was even pushed by Russia, China, India with America under the Obama admin both nations came.
> 
> I am sure NeoCons must be joyful right now.


When Trump said he could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and nobody would care, he wasn't joking.  His supporters will back him no matter what he does.  The question is who will be running against him and will being "not Donald Trump" be enough to draw more voters in.  The election could still go either way.

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## nikcers

> That war is completely unconstitutional & was started based on lies.


Iraq war was a mistake but we should let Iran have Iraq after they were responsible for blowing up Americans? Aww gee we made a miatake because the Iraqi people couldn't create a better government after we took out their corrupt government. So we should let Iran take it over because they are such good actors

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## Pauls' Revere

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...164018672.html

Iran or groups it supports may be planning further attacks on United States interests in the Middle East, and the US is prepared to take pre-emptive military action if it gets sufficient warning, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said on Thursday.
"There are some indications out there that they may be planning additional attacks, that is nothing new ... we've seen this for two or three months now," Esper told reporters, without elaborating. "If that happens then we will act and by the way, if we get word of attacks or some type indication, we will take pre-emptive action as well to protect American forces to protect American lives."

Supporters of a largely Iranian-trained paramilitary group and others who hurled rocks at the US embassy in two days of protests withdrew on Wednesday after Washington dispatched extra troops.
US President Donald Trump, who faces a re-election campaign in 2020, accused Iran of orchestrating the violence. He threatened on Tuesday to retaliate against Iran but said later he did not want war.
The unrest outside the US embassy in Baghdad followed US air raids on Sunday against bases of the Tehran-backed Kataib Hezbollah group. Washington said the air raids, which killed 25 people, were in retaliation for missile attacks that killed a US contractor in northern Iraq last week.
*The protests marked a new turn in the shadow war between Washington and Tehran playing out across the Middle East.*
"The game has changed and we are prepared to do what is necessary to defend our personnel and our interests and our partners in the region," Esper said.
During the same news briefing, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley said there had been a sustained campaign by Kataib Hezbollah against US personnel since at least October and the missile attack in northern Iraq was designed to kill.

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## Ender

*
Americas New War: Lets Not Pretend That Iraqi Paramilitaries Drew First Blood*
*A US-enabled Israeli hunting season on Iraqi militias had been going on for months before the first US casualty*
Marko Marjanović1 




> The US had been using its position in Iraq and Syria to allow Israel kill Iraqi servicemen since July
> 
> As the Trump administration would have it history began yesterday. On December 27 A rocket salvo struck a US base near Kirkuk killing a US contractor and wounding four US soldiers, as well as, according to the Americans, two Iraqi soldiers.
> 
> So two days later the US  deducing that the attack must have come from the Iraqi Kataib Hezbollah paramilitary that right now hates the Americans guts the most  bombed five Kataib facilities on the Iraq-Syrian border, ie nowhere near Kirkuk, killing 25 and wounding 55 Kataib paramilitaries that almost certainly had nothing to do with the Kirkuk base attack themselves.
> 
> So according to the Americans albeit their airstrikes, against an outfit that is formally part of Iraqs official security forces, may have technically violated Iraqi sovereignty that is a technicality since the paramilitary is a proxy for Iran, and in any case these Iranian proxies started it by killing an American first in attacks on guests of the Iraqi government.
> 
> Americans also suppose that since they have been granted basing rights in Iraq and the right to act militarily (against ISIS) on Iraqs territory that comes with the right to defend themselves.
> ...


https://www.checkpointasia.net/ameri...w-first-blood/

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## Pauls' Revere

> This is most serious act of war against Iran America had ever took imo 
> 
> Solemani wanted to be a martyr


Spot on. Whether he wanted to, or they used him as one, your right.

https://irannewsdaily.com/2020/01/ir...-in-us-strike/

IRGC Quds Force Commander, Iraqi PMU’s Deputy Martyred in US Strike
According To Iran News, Commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Quds Force Major General Qassem Soleimani, and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the second-in-command of Iraq’s Popular Mobilization Units (PMU), were martyred in US airstrikes in the Iraqi capital Baghdad.
The IRGC announced in a statement on Friday morning that Major General Soleimani and al-Muhandis were martyred in the attack carried out by US helicopters.
The Iraqi pro-government group also confirmed the incident.
“The deputy head of the Hashed, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, and head of the Quds Force, Qassem Soleimani, were killed in a US strike that targeted their car on the Baghdad International Airport road,” it said a statement on Friday.
“The American and Israeli enemy is responsible for killing the mujahideen Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis and Qassem Soleimani,” said Ahmed al-Assadi, a PMU spokesman.

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## Swordsmyth

https://twitter.com/Aldo_9111/status...25666380795910

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## pcosmar

> This is a proxy wart and its being escalated...


That's what I think of Trump..  generally.

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## angelatc

> This is a bigger blow to them than they can blow back. This was already blowback from what they did to us. Trump doesn't play blowback games. If they don't announce a change of behavior now he will cut another head off. You ever seen a chicken with its head cut off?? It won't be very pretty but it will send the message. Its the only way they will understand.


Pretty much the opposite of ending the wars.

I am going to remind everybody that the only sources we have about Iran being a sponsor of terror are the same people that insisted Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.  If you Trump supporting clowns think that this bull$#@! is justified in any way, shape or form, then this isn't the right place for you.

We do not belong in the Middle East

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## susano

> It seems Marco Rubio the War hawk wants to save his little ISIS buddies in Syria and Iraq eh? you know i fairly believe trump has a real chance of losing this year.


Yep. He's jumped the shark and completely $#@!ed up. He had it in the bag with the impeachment fiasco and he's blown that. He just lost a big chunk of his base.

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## AngryCanadian

> Everyone will know,,The collapse of economies worldwide  will insure that.


You know if anything that Iran has the power of and that its the *OIL.*
I don't want to speculate to much here but i am sure you know what i mean when i said OIL, and Markets when it comes to the oil markets. Iran is the world largest next to Saudi Arabia.

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## nikcers

> Pretty much the opposite of ending the wars.
> 
> I am going to remind everybody that the only sources we have about Iran being a sponsor of terror are the same people that insisted Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.  If you Trump supporting clowns think that this bull$#@! is justified in any way, shape or form, then this isn't the right place for you.
> 
> We do not belong in the Middle East


Even Iran admits to being allys with organizations like Hezbollah. They have Iranian weapons. Are you really goung to pretend like they are innocent because they use proxy groups and train them and give them weapons?

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## angelatc

> Aww gee we made a miatake because the Iraqi people couldn't create a better government after we took out their corrupt government.


Mike Huckabee's "We broke it, we bought it" didn't fly with Ron Paul, and I doubt this similar spin would fare any differently

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## AngryCanadian

> Yep. He's jumped the shark and completely $#@!ed up. He had it in the bag with the impeachment fiasco and he's blown that. He just lost a big chunk of his base.


Well anything still could happen by 2020 as long he doesn't push it further. And no major blowbacks or responses happen. Iran played trump again. At least that's what a reporter thinks they were doing.

They knew this general would be killed and generate a response.

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## AngryCanadian

> Even Iran admits to being allys with organizations like Hezbollah. They have Iranian weapons. Are you really goung to pretend like they are innocent because they use proxy groups and train them and give them weapons?


You Americans allied yourselves with Hezbollah during the holy jihad agaisnt the Serbs during the 90s in Bosnia from what i understand the American gov not only supported Hezbollah but taken their fighters into a plane to transport to the battlefield.

Look here.




> Iran, a predominantly Shia country, was one of the first Muslim countries to provide support for the Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks, who are mainly Sunni Muslim) in the war. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) sent more than five (5,000 to 14,000 tons from May 1994 to January 1996 alone[1]) thousand tonnes of arms to the Bosnian Muslims.[2] IRGC also supplied trainers and advisers for the Bosnian military and intelligence service.[2] Several dozen Iranian intelligence experts joined the Bosnian Muslim intelligence agency.[3] The Iranian Ministry of Intelligence-supported mujahideen units trained selected Bosnian army units.[4] The Hezbollah (Lebanese Shia), supported by Iran, also sent fighters to the war.[5] In 1992, *Iran with the help of Turkey smuggled arms to the Bosnian Muslims*.[6] Reports of "hundreds of tons of weapons" shipped from Iran over a period of months appeared in the media in early 1995.[7] Iranian arms were shipped through Croatia.[8] *Robert Baer, a CIA agent stationed in Sarajevo during the war, later claimed that "In Sarajevo, the Bosnian Muslim government is a client of the Iranians . . . If it's a choice between the CIA and the Iranians, they'll take the Iranians any day." By the war's end,* public opinion polls showed some 86% of the Bosnian Muslim population expressed a positive attitude toward Iran.[9] According to the scholar Cees Wiebes, during the war “Turkey and Saudi Arabia were very willing to deliver weapons and to lure Alija Izetbegović away from Iran, but the orientation of the Bosnian government was far more towards Iran.”[10]

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## enhanced_deficit

I'm sympathetic ti anti-war argument and for not letting foreign-first globalist neocon lobbies  hijacking US foreign policy for the interest of our allies abroad. But civil discource and balanced narrative should be maintained even if intent is to expose illogical policies or shortcomings of  neocons think tanks arguments.

This criticism is blunt but still well worded and acceptable politically speaking:

*‘The biggest thing you did for Israel’ was breaking Iran deal — Adelson tells Trump*

 News   Philip Weiss on  December 9, 2019 
 
  Miriam and Sheldon Adelson present Trump with a menorah, Dec. 7, 2019. Israeli American Council national summit. Screenshot. 

  Donald Trump’s speech to the Israeli American Council on Saturday  night in the presence of his biggest donors, Sheldon and Miriam Adelson,  has caused some shock waves. Largely because he referred to Jewish  wealth. Here are some surprises from the speech.
 The biggest thing Trump did for Israel was breaking the Iran deal, per Sheldon Adelson:I said to Sheldon, “What do you think was bigger? …  Israel and the embassy going in, and it became Jerusalem, the capital of  Israel? Or the Golan Heights [recognition as Israeli territory]?” He  said, “Neither.” I said, “What do you mean ‘neither,’ Sheldon?” He said,  “The biggest thing you did for Israel was breaking up and terminating  the horrible, one-sided, catastrophic deal that was made by President  Obama.” (Applause.) Right?
 I said, “I never thought of it that way, Sheldon, but I agree with you. If you want to know the truth, I agree with you.”(In 2015, Trump said of Adelson supporting a then-rival:  “Sheldon Adelson is looking to give big dollars to [Marco] Rubio  because he feels he can mold him into his perfect little puppet.”)
 Trump says American Jews don’t love Israel enough — a continuation of his Jews are disloyal to Israel theme of last summer.We have to get the people of our country, of this  country, to love Israel more. I have to tell you that. We have to do it.  We have to get them to love Israel more. Because you have people that  are Jewish people, that are great people — they don’t love Israel  enough. You know that. You know that. (Applause.)


https://mondoweiss.net/2019/12/the-b...n-tells-trump/





Following anti-war   narrative depicts MAGA leadership as a willing pawn of  neocon money masters and tone goes too far.




> *Banksta's Paradise feat. Donald Trump* - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW4CvC5IaFI


 




> I try to err on the side of more free speech/transparency but this video  has so much shocking content that it seems almost irresponsible for  youtube to let it be online.
> 
> Was it really necessary to post it here?  AJ's videos with much milder content had been deleted by youtube in the past.
> 
> Not a fan of every policy of MAGA wing (especially due to 'follow the  money' doubts)  but this video if picked up by leftist MSM media could  cause 2020 loss for GOPA leadership and give White House to the party  that is openly socialist and caused great anguigh for GOP bases 2008-16.

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## Swordsmyth

> Yep. He's jumped the shark and completely $#@!ed up. He had it in the bag with the impeachment fiasco and he's blown that. He just lost a big chunk of his base.


Not at all, when the election comes and there is no war he will get more votes because of this.

He struck back at enemies who were killing our people and attacking our embassy while still avoiding war.

We would prefer him to just pack up and leave but most of his base expect him to not let our enemies push us around.

He is getting us out of Afghanistan right now and he will continue to withdraw us from Syria and eventually Iraq but he's going to do it while showing strength.

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## nikcers

> Mike Huckabee's "We broke it, we bought it" didn't fly with Ron Paul, and I doubt this similar spin would fare any differently


Not a broke it we bought it. Iran went into Iraq because their economy was doing bad. Iran can't have it. Even Ron Paul criticized Obama for making Iran stronger

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## susano

> What a man child Trump is and that tweet just further proves his clueless on foreign affairs.


I don't think he has a freaking clue who is who and who is doing what. He talks about going after ISIS and then attacks those actually killing ISIS. His head is up Israeli and Saudi ass, both of whom have aided and abetted Al Nusra and ISIS in Syria. 


So, how does WWIII shape up as to whose on what side?

US
UK
France
Israel
Gulf States
Jordan


Syria
Lebanon
Iraq
Iran
Russia?
Turkey?

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## Swordsmyth

> Well anything still could happen by 2020 as long he doesn't push it further. And no major blowbacks or responses happen. Iran played trump again. At least that's what a reporter thinks they were doing.
> 
> They knew this general would be killed and generate a response.


LOL

This general was planning ever larger incidents to force Trump to start an actual war but Trump nipped it in the bud.

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## Swordsmyth

> Even Iran admits to being allys with organizations like Hezbollah. They have Iranian weapons. Are you really goung to pretend like they are innocent because they use proxy groups and train them and give them weapons?


The Hate America First crowd doesn't hold other countries to the same standard they hold America to and they believe every word any country that hates America says no matter how evil the regime is.

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## susano

> One less warhawk 
> Iran Loses Its Indispensable Man
> Soleimani recently orchestrated other attacks on coalition bases in Iraq. Soleimani was at least partially, and in many cases directly, responsible for dozens if not hundreds of attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq going back to the height of the Iraq War.


You realize you're quoting the NWO there, right? Last I checked, it was the US that invaded Iraq so any indignation over US forces getting attacked is bull$#@!.

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## AngryCanadian

> Not at all, when the election comes and there is no war he will get more votes because of this.
> 
> He struck back at enemies who were killing our people and attacking our embassy while still avoiding war.
> 
> We would prefer him to just pack up and leave but most of his base expect him to not let our enemies push us around.
> 
> He is getting us out of Afghanistan right now and he will continue to withdraw us from Syria and eventually Iraq but he's going to do it while showing strength.






> Not at all, when the election comes and there is no war he will get more votes because of this.


The voters who voted for him wont be coming out for him.  They were anti war not for pro war. If there is anyone coming out to vote for him it wont be the moderate who favor anti war polices on the middle east.





> He is getting us out of Afghanistan right now and he will continue to withdraw us from Syria


By 2020 Nov that still wont happen lolz.

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## nikcers

> You Americans allied yourselves with Hezbollah during the holy jihad agaisnt the Serbs during the 90s in Bosnia from what i understand the American gov not only supported Hezbollah but taken their fighters into a plane to transport to the battlefield.
> 
> Look here.


Irans never attacked anyone but their weapons have is a $#@! argument. There are veterans that fought in the Iraq war who died because of Iran giving weapons to people we were at war with they dont get to keep Iraq because they are not good actors.illegal war or not they should of stayed out of it.

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## nikcers

> You realize you're quoting the NWO there, right? Last I checked, it was the US that invaded Iraq so any indignation over US forces getting attacked is bull$#@!.


Iran should of stayed out of it if they didn't want to pay the price.

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## angelatc

> Even Iran admits to being allys with organizations like Hezbollah. They have Iranian weapons. Are you really goung to pretend like they are innocent because they use proxy groups and train them and give them weapons?


Iran has never attacked anybody in modern days.  They don't occupy bases all across the globe.  They are one of the oldest civilizations on the planet, and now you want us to go to war with Iraq?  WTF is wrong with you? We aren't the police of the world.  We should trade with everybody.

Does any of that sound even remotely familiar?   Seriously, I am not going to play with you.  These forums are anti-war. Take your neocon ass to Red State if you are trying to convince us that we military involvement anywhere.

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## AngryCanadian

> LOL
> 
> This general was planning ever larger incidents to force Trump to start an actual war *but Trump nipped* it in the bud.


Iranians are actually smarter then the Trump admin it seems...

From a well respected Reporter.




> No credit to be given to "high intelligence" information hunting down #Iran IRGC commander #QassemSoleimani. Throughout the years I have written that the moment Soleimani steps in #Iraq, everybody knows about it and about his movement and visits.





> Now, there might be few attacks here and there in #Iraq. Don't jump on the conclusion that "this is the revenge". It would be far from it. The real revenge will be by a hit at the same level or similar. This is what we need to watch and expect. #Iran doesn't respond in a hurry.

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## susano

> *Trump spokesman Sean Hannity says US forces are on alert. 
> *
> https://www.foxnews.com/media/sean-h...-the-president


May as well be. Jew loving, Zionist, war mongering fanboy. Israel first!

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## AngryCanadian

> Irans never attacked anyone but their weapons have is a $#@! argument. There are veterans that fought in the Iraq war who died because of Iran giving weapons to people we were at war with they dont get to keep Iraq because they are not good actors.illegal war or not they should of stayed out of it.


You seem to be avoiding my mention in the post how you Americans were helping the Hezbollah agaisnt the Christian Serbs?





> Iran giving weapons to people we were at war with they dont get to keep Iraq because they are not good actors.illegal war or not they should of stayed out of it.


Iran is not a good actor for region? but America militarily occupying Iraq for 18 years or 8 years or more is somehow a good actor please do explain how America is a good actor for the region are you not seeing the chaos in Libya which America caused?

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## angelatc

> Iran should of stayed out of it if they didn't want to pay the price.


Wait - so Donald Trump broke the treaty, imposed sanctions, and generally behaved like a world class dick, but IRAN should have stayed out of it?  What is "it" exactly?

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## angelatc

> Trump spokesman Sean Hannity says US forces are on alert. 
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/media/sean-h...-the-president


I talked to a guy tonight whose son was supposed to be home on leave next week, but now he's headed to Iraq.

$#@! war, and $#@! people who support it.

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## nikcers

> Iran has never attacked anybody in modern days.  They don't occupy bases all across the globe.  They are one of the oldest civilizations on the planet, and now you want us to go to war with Iraq?  WTF is wrong with you? We aren't the police of the world.  We should trade with everybody.
> 
> Does any of that sound even remotely familiar?   Seriously, I am not going to play with you.  These forums are anti-war. Take your neocon ass to Red State if you are trying to convince us that we military involvement anywhere.


Where have you been all this time Saudi Arabia and Iran have been in a procy war? This is an established fact. Pretending like Iran doesnt fight proxy wars is make believe. The people they funded and armed killed Americans. We told them to stop letting terrorists have weapons to use against us. Show me one source that refutes the fact that Iran funds and trains and arms terrorists to fight proxy wars. I would like to see it.

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## AngryCanadian

> Where have you been all this time Saudi Arabia and Iran have been in a procy war. This is an established fact. Pretending like Iran doesnt fight proxy wars is make believe. The people they funded and armes killed Americans. We told them to stop letting terrorists have weapons to use against us. Show me one source that refutes the fact that Iran funds and trains and arms terrorists to fight proxy wars. I would like to see it.


So what your saying its better to be allied with freinds like Saudi Arabia over Iran?





> The people they funded and armes killed Americans. We told them to stop letting terrorists have weapons to use against us


How many Iranians were behind 9/11!?

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## angelatc

> Iranians are actually smarter then the Trump admin it seems...
> 
> From a well respected Reporter.


This was written 11/28, but it's eerily prophetic.  Giraldi is always spot on:/

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...y-winner-iraq/



> he American invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of that nation’s government in 2003 has rightly been described as the greatest foreign policy disaster in the history of the United States. Eight thousand one hundred and seventy five American soldiers, contractors and civilians have died in Iraq since 2003 as well as an estimated 300,000 Iraqis. By some more expansive estimates the so-called “global war on terror,” of which Iraq was the major component, may have directly killed 801,000, of which at least 335,000 were civilians. Other estimates indicate that the total dead from collateral causes, to include disease and starvation, could exceed 3 million, overwhelmingly Muslims.
> 
> The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq alone have also cost, according to the same Brown University study, an estimated $6.4 trillion and still counting as the money to pay for it was borrowed.
> 
> The invasion destabilized the entire region and shattered forever the relatively stable status quo whereby minority Sunni dominated Arab Iraq served as a check on Shia dominated Persian Iran’s ambitions. The two countries had in fact gone to war in 1980-1988. The United States provided support to Iraq in that conflict, which killed as many as half a million military and civilians on each side.
> 
> After the US invasion, as Shia were a majority in Iraq it was inevitable that the country’s new “democratic” government installed by the victors would eventually find much in common with its eastern neighbor in spite of Washington’s efforts to prevent such a development. The resulting armed conflict that also involved the independence minded Kurdish minority was something like a civil war. It primarily pitted the displaced Sunni against the ascendant Shia militias and was a contributing factor in the subsequent birth and development of the terrorist group Islamic State, also referred to as Daesh.
> 
> A remarkable 700 pages of documents relating to Iran’s role in Iraq has surfaced and was printed recently in The Intercept, which received the material, and also in The New York Times, which agreed to help validate and process the information. The Times headlined its piece on the documents with Leaked Iran Cables: Key Findings From Secret Documents: Leaked spy cables reveal how Iran came to dominate the political and military spheres in Iraq. Here’s what the hundreds of documents tell us. For The Intercept, the key insight provided by reviewing the documents was how the “devastation that followed the 2003 US invasion of Iraq gave Iran a golden opportunity to build a political and social order there that was more favorable to their interests.”
> ...

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## devil21

> Trump wages war agaisnt because of the following.
> 1.Poll numbers.
> 2.Election.


Naaa, he's just playing his part in the script, as ordered, lest Epstein's videos of him porking little kids is released.

Never forget:




Oh, and if anyone doubted that nikcers (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/snicker?s=t) is a hasbara shill account, let that doubt be put to rest tonight.

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## Brian4Liberty



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## Swordsmyth

> Iranians are actually smarter then the Trump admin it seems...
> 
> From a well respected Reporter.




Trump is beating them at every step.

They will not get the war they are so desperate to draw us into.

----------


## nikcers

> You seem to be avoiding my mention in the post how you Americans were helping the Hezbollah agaisnt the Christian Serbs?
> 
> 
> 
> Iran is not a good actor for region? but America militarily occupying Iraq for 18 years or 8 years or more is somehow a good actor please do explain how America is a good actor for the region are you not seeing the chaos in Libya which America caused?


They are directly responsible for deaths of Americans. We didnt invade Iran. They should of stayed out of it if they didn't want to pay the price.

----------


## susano

> Trump wages war agaisnt because of the following.
> 1.Poll numbers.
> 2.Election.
> 
> 
> 
> For an American you must have a low IQ. You do reazlie you Americans had being funding and arming Jihadists and terrosit groups for decades right? even now those groups you call rebels America funded them.
> 
> Given the chance Iran will accuse you Americans of sponsoring terror the same way and of course accusing you Americans of supporting ISIS.
> ...


Never gonna happen. The US is a war machine and an empire and will disintegrate just like Rome, the most important and influential empire in history. Sadly it seems there's no turning this ship around. Lost cause.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> Trump is beating them at every step.



^this.

And also likely winning more $$$$s from respected  globalist neocon top donor of his   in the process.

It's win-win for both deep globalists and deep pockets.  Hannity and Limbaugh would cheer it just as they cheered Bush-Cheney wins.






Related

*How The Icke Meme Tries To Discredit 'MAGA'*

----------


## Swordsmyth

> The voters who voted for him wont be coming out for him.  They were anti war not for pro war. If there is anyone coming out to vote for him it wont be the moderate who favor anti war polices on the middle east.
> 
> 
> 
> By 2020 Nov that still wont happen lolz.


You are delusional.
There will not be a war and Trump will win with far more votes than last time.
And we will be leaving lots of places.

----------


## angelatc

>

----------


## nikcers

> Oh no????!?  When Iran hits the oil prices watch the sky rocket markets dive crazy.


Iran doesn't control the price of oil otherwise sanctions would affected them. If they attack Americans or American interests in retaliation they will pay a big price.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Im a pussy because i have health conditions that make me unfit for duty that i was born with?? He graduated a year before me or i would of signed with him and probably wouldnt of made it through bootcamp.


Seeing an actual war is not a nice thing dude. Politicians never send their kids to be drafted or to the actually front they always send people like you. They see ordinary people as nothing more as mere pawns.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Iran doesn't control the price of oil otherwise sanctions would affected them. If they attack Americans or American interests in retaliation they will pay a big price.


Ah yes sanctions which only effect the civilians. The sanctions dont effect anything on the actual gov or military they target the food, health products. These sanctions literally force some people to protest over their own gov.

This is how you Americans do it all the time and then you have the guts to claim that these sanctions are only meant agaisnt their gov officials when in fact they do nothing.

----------


## nikcers

> Seeing an actual war is not a nice thing dude. Politicians never send their kids to be drafted or to the actually front they always send people like you. They see ordinary people as nothing more as mere pawns.


I would if i could. I am not afraid to fight for my country.

----------


## angelatc

> Its split between Shia and Sunni. And Kurds.


I hated to do it, but I had to break out the Wikipedia.  The Kurds are Sunni.

This makes sense now, based on Hussein's attempted incursions into Iran.  

Flashback to Scott Ritter's 2007ish "Calling Out Idiot America." 




> The fact is, most Americans are ill-placed intellectually, either through genuine ignorance, a lack of curiosity or a combination of both, to judge for themselves the efficacy of congressional behavior when it comes to Iraq. Congress claims to be searching for a solution to Iraq, and many Americans simply accept that this is this case.





> If the reader can fully answer the question raised, then he or she qualifies as one capable of pointing an accusatory finger at Congress as its members dither over what to do in Iraq. If the reader fails the quiz, then there should be an honest appraisal of the reality that we are in way over our heads regarding this war, and that it is irresponsible for anyone to make sweeping judgments about the ramifications of policy courses of action yet to be agreed upon. Claiming to be able to divine a solution to a problem improperly defined is not only ignorant but dangerously delusional.
> 
> So here is the quiz: Explain the relationship between the Iraqi cities of Karbala and Baghdad as they impact the coexistence of Iraq’s Shiite and Sunni populations.


I have no clue, so let's get the $#@! out of the Middle East.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Iran doesn't control the price of oil otherwise sanctions would affected them. If they attack Americans or American interests in retaliation they will pay a big price.


When you Americans imposed sanctions on Yugoslavia and in Bosnia it was impossible to buy or to find bread because of the prices had gone up because of the sanctions. Decades sanctions are still felt across the region.

The only way you had food was if you saw some Jihadists patrolling in some Muslim proxy groups occupied towns. Or at least if you stayed near the NATO/UN/American forces....

----------


## devil21

> Indignation about IRAN attacking Americans is perfectly justified.
> We didn't invade Iran.


So now a random unsubstantiated claim made literally a day ago, parroted by the same "fake news" that Trump decries constantly, about who attacked an embassy, that wasn't even Iranian, but rather was alleged to be backed by Iran, is now "IRAN ATTACKING AMERICANS"?

Do we get to hear about yellow cake and babies in incubators soon too?

----------


## angelatc

> I would if i could. I am not afraid to fight for my country.


Apparently you are.  You yourself said it's too haaaaard.

Chicken Hawk.

----------


## nikcers

> Ah yes sanctions which only effect the civilians. The sanctions dont effect anything on the actual gov or military they target the food, health products. These sanctions literally force some people to protest over their own gov.
> 
> This is how you Americans do it all the time and then you have the guts to claim that these sanctions are only meant agaisnt their gov officials when in fact they do nothing.


The sanctions were on oil. The ones that would affect the price of oil would be oil sanctions.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> So now a random unsubstantiated claim made literally a day ago, parroted by the same "fake news" that Trump decries constantly, about who attacked an embassy, that wasn't even Iranian, but rather was alleged to be backed by Iran, is now "IRAN ATTACKING AMERICANS"?


Iran has been killing Americans in Iraq for many years.
They should have been thanking us for taking out Saddam for them.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The sanctions were on oil. The ones that would affect the price of oil would be oil sanctions.


You Americans with the congress, leftists just helped Trump pass a new sanctions bill which does alot more then just OIL. Oil is what they claim it does.

----------


## angelatc

> Iran doesn't control the price of oil otherwise sanctions would affected them. If they attack Americans or American interests in retaliation they will pay a big price.


THe $#@! are you talking about?  You seriously don't think the Iranian sanctions are not affecting Iran? 

I just threw up a little over "American interests."

----------


## nikcers

> Apparently you are.  You yourself said it's too haaaaard.
> 
> Chicken Hawk.


Yeah im going to just ignore your bull$#@!. I have had poor health my whole life and when my friend came back from bootcamp he said i couldn't handle it. I trust someone who known me since i was 6 and gone through bootcamp on that one.

----------


## nikcers

> THe $#@! are you talking about?  You seriously don't think the Iranian sanctions are not affecting Iran? 
> 
> I just threw up a little over "American interests."


He said the price of oil like Iran controls the price of oil. If they could do that they would of already.

----------


## angelatc

> Yeah im going to just ignore your bull$#@!. I have had poor health my whole life and when my friend came back from bootcamp he said i couldn't handle it. I trust someone who known me since i was 6 and gone through bootcamp on that one.


Like I said, chicken hawk.   All for war, but won't actually go fight.  Delicate little flower on the outside, demanding that politicians send other people's healthy boys off to die to protect your honor.

You repulse all decent people.

----------


## devil21

> THe $#@! are you talking about?  You seriously don't think the Iranian sanctions are not affecting Iran? 
> 
> I just threw up a little over "American interests."


Like I said earlier, let any doubts about what nikcers is here for, along with the other obvious shills, be put completely to rest tonight, once and for all.  As soon as they start parroting CFR terms like "American interests" there is no more doubt left.

----------


## susano

> American soldiers in Iraq are not fair game for Iran, we didn't invade Iran.
> But Iran and this guy have been killing Americans in Iraq for many years now.


Yes, they are fair game. That's how it is in war. Iran and Iraq are next door neighbors and to think that Iran wouldn't be threatened by a US invasion is nuts. Do you think if some other country invaded Mexico or Canada and was a threat to the US that the US wouldn't attack their forces?

----------


## angelatc

> Nobody in the middle east but American allies. LOL


What allies want us in the Middle East?  Iraq has asked us to leave, Iran seems pretty hostile to our presence, Israel......ohhhhh! There it is!

----------


## devil21

> Yes, they are fair game. That's how it is in war. Iran and Iraq are next door neighbors and to think that Iran wouldn't be threatened by a US invasion is nuts. Do you think if some other country invaded Mexico or Canada and was a threat to the US that the US wouldn't attack their forces?

----------


## nikcers

> What allies want us in the Middle East?  Iraq has asked us to leave, Iran seems pretty hostile to our presence, Israel......ohhhhh! There it is!


Israel and Saudi Arabia are in the middle east right??

----------


## angelatc

> Like I said earlier, let any doubts about what nikcers is here for, along with the other obvious shills, be put completely to rest tonight, once and for all.  As soon as they start parroting CFR terms like "American interests" there is no more doubt left.


I can't believe this is happening here of all places.  Anti-war, bring the troops home  - that was the one message we all agreed on.   I might have to take a break again, because it's clear the mods won;t throw the trolls out

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> There will not be a war.


An all out war? Probably not. We have the greatest military on the planet, so Trump can engage in acts of war with impunity with pretty much any nation. And drunken monkey is proving he is the craziest of them all, so Iran will probably not openly do anything. But some interests want the destruction of Iran at any cost, and they will continue to push for that.

From a constitutional conservative perspective, the letter and intent of the Constitution was that only the Congress has the power to declare war. It doesn’t matter how bad the guy was that was killed, there is a constitutional process, and it was not followed.

----------


## nikcers

> Like I said, chicken hawk.   All for war, but won't actually go fight.  Delicate little flower on the outside, demanding that politicians send other people's healthy boys off to die to protect your honor.
> 
> You repulse all decent people.


On so my opinion isn't valid because of my health problems? GFY

----------


## angelatc

> Israel and Saudi Arabia are in the middle east right??


Israel's such a good ally they won't even let us use their air strips.  We're not their ally, we're their bitch.

And according to Ron Paul and Bin Laden,  the Twin Towers came down because we wouldn't leave Saudi Arabia when asked.   Now we're doing that all again, and you're cheering it on.

We are not the police of the world, our troops do not belong there.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Yes, they are fair game. That's how it is in war. Iran and Iraq are next door neighbors and to think that Iran wouldn't be threatened by a US invasion is nuts. Do you think if some other country invaded Mexico or Canada and was a threat to the US that the US wouldn't attack their forces?


Either Iran already started the war and Trump is just defending American forces or Iran is not free to attack Americans.
We didn't invade Iran.

If some other country invaded Mexico and Trump started sending Spec Ops to kill their troops even though they didn't invade America this forum would be screaming.

Iran is not innocent here and Americans are not fair game.

----------


## angelatc

> Israel and Saudi Arabia are in the middle east right??


Israel's such a good ally they won't even let us use their air strips.  We're not their ally, we're their bitch.

And according to Ron Paul and Bin Laden,  the Twin Towers came down because we wouldn't leave Saudi Arabia when asked.   Now we're doing that all again, and you're cheering it on.

We are not the police of the world, our troops do not belong there.

----------


## devil21

> I can't believe this is happening here of all places.  Anti-war, bring the troops home  - that was the one message we all agreed on.   I might have to take a break again, because it's clear the mods won;t throw the trolls out


This is probably the worst time to take a break.  January is going to be nutty for a whole lot of reasons.

----------


## nikcers

> Israel's such a good ally they won't even let us use their air strips.  We're not their ally, we're their bitch.
> 
> And according to Ron Paul and Bin Laden,  the Twin Towers came down because we wouldn't leave Saudi Arabia when asked.   Now we're doing that all again, and you're cheering it on.
> 
> We are not the police of the world, our troops do not belong there.


They don't kiss our ass enough so they might as well be nonody and don't exist according to you because you said we dont have any allies in the middle east.

----------


## angelatc

> On so my opinion isn't valid because of my health problems? GFY


Your opinion is grounds for disdain and mockery because you're too chicken to even try boot camp, much less a real war, but here you are, angrily waving the flag talking about "our" interests.  You're a chicken hawk.  

"My friend said it was like super hard, and I wouldn't be able!"  

You don't even hear how pathetic that sounds.

----------


## nikcers

> Your opinion is grounds for disdain and mockery because you're too chicken to even try boot camp, much less a real war, but here you are, angrily waving the flag talking about "our" interests.  You're a chicken hawk.  
> 
> "My friend said it was like super hard, and I wouldn't be able!"  
> 
> You don't even hear how pathetic that sounds.


I don't care how it sounds im not going to lie.

----------


## angelatc

> They don't kiss our ass enough so they might as well be nonody and don't exist according to you because you said we dont have any allies in the middle east.


Saudi Arabia is a major funder of terrorism in the Middle East - how can we possibly be allies with them? Someone said funding terrorism was bad, and people who aren't dainty sniveling little chicken hawks should be over there exchanging bullets with countries that do that?

----------


## angelatc

> I don't care how it sounds im not going to lie.


Those bone spurs must be just awful.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> They should have been thanking us for taking out Saddam for them.



EM.

^this is somewhat insightful statement in 2019.

 Although, much more credit should be given to visionary Polish-Israeli leader  Netanyahu who had said something similar way back in back  in 2003 when most US taxpayers were still on the fence about investing US money and lives for spreading freedom in Iraq, Palestine, Syria and other mideast places.




+rep to ss and Netanyahu.





Related
*Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel*

Iraq/Afghanistan wars disabled 624,000 US troops , Divorces  up 42%, Foreclosures up 217%

----------


## nikcers

> Those bone spurs must be just awful.


Yeah i have spent years in the hospital for bone spurs. So poetic you know me so well.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> An all out war? Probably not. We have the greatest military on the planet, so Trump can engage in acts of war with impunity with pretty much any nation. And drunken monkey is proving he is the craziest of them all, so Iran will probably not openly do anything. But some interests want the destruction of Iran at any cost, and they will continue to push for that.
> 
> From a constitutional conservative perspective, the letter and intent of the Constitution was that only the Congress has the power to declare war. It doesn’t matter how bad the guy was that was killed, there is a constitutional process, and it was not followed.


You nailed it. This killing of this general was not done by a constitutional manner. Trump might have saved himself over the impeachment but how far will the senate go by defending Trump over a killing of Iranian general which wasn't done in a constitutional decision?

I think some Trump supporters in here need a cooler head to see some things.

By the way dont get me wrong i dont see any chance that Biden might have agaisnt Trump when knowing Biden has made mistakes. But Trump needs to be very careful of not letting himself be dragged by the deep state. Or whatever you want to call it. 

But i agree with the others trump isnt very smart either, the way he posted that American flag on his social media page wasn't a good idea.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You nailed it. This killing of this general was not done by a constitutional manner. Trump might have saved himself over the impeachment but how far will the senate go by defending Trump over a killing of Iranian general which wasn't done in a constitutional decision?


Congress passed the laws that supposedly authorize this kind of thing, they will not impeach him for it.

----------


## nikcers

> You nailed it. This killing of this general was not done by a constitutional manner. Trump might have saved himself over the impeachment but how far will the senate go by defending Trump over a killing of Iranian general which wasn't done in a constitutional decision?


The IRGC was designated a terrorist organization using the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Elijah J. Magnier
> @ejmalrai
> Replying to 
> @ejmalrai
> 
> @realDonaldTrump
>  and 3 others
> #BreakingNews:
> 
> In response to the #US assassination, Moqtada al-Sadr gives the orders for his military branch "Jaish al-Imam al-Mahdi" and not "Sara al-salam" to indicate his readiness for war against the #US in #Iraq. He may be referring to the return of the era of 2004.




Returning to the era of *2004*.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The IRGC was designated a terrorist organization using the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).


And who wanted IRGC designated a terrorist organization more? think. The news i just posted is not looking good. The Trump admin was dragged in a dangerous pov.

----------


## nikcers

> And who wanted IRGC designated a terrorist organization? KSA,Israel.


The congrress did when they granted that authority to the executive branch and didn't do anything after he declared them a FTO last April.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The congrress did when they granted that authority to the executive branch and didn't do anything after he declared them a FTO last April.



NeoCons wanted to designated them as terrorists because they needed enemies, America is already helping Jihadists in Syria. Its rather comical how we arent bombing any more AQ officials eh?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Elijah J. Magnier
> @ejmalrai
> ·
> 1m
> #BreakingNews:
> #Iraq Asaeb Ahl Al-Haq Leader Kais al-Khaz'ali calls for a 
> general mobilisation of his forces to "expel the #US forces from #Iraq".
> 
> "It won't be easy and simple but you have to trust we shall defeat them", he said.


Its already looking bad. Whats the Trump admin going to do? go to war agaisnt Militants who are hardened?

----------


## angelatc

> And who wanted IRGC designated a terrorist organization more? think. The news i just posted is not looking good. The Trump admin was dragged in a dangerous pov.


An important note: Trump's designation is the first time ever that an arm of a foreign government has been designated as a terrorist group.    So it would appear that Trump has been planning an end run around Congress for quite some time.   

I am going to go out on a limb here and say Ron Paul warned us about this crap.

----------


## angelatc

> Its already looking bad. Whats the Trump admin going to do? go to war against Militants who are hardened?


Uniting Iran and Iraq.  What a great leader he is.

Iraq will fight to get us out of their country, since politely asking for the last decade didn't work.  Iran will ally with them, and the chicken hawks are going to scream that Iran is sponsoring terrorism.

And there's nothing we can do to stop any of this.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Uniting Iran and Iraq.  What a great leader he is.
> 
> Iraq will fight to get us out of their country, since politely asking for the last decade didn't work.  Iran will ally with them, and the chicken hawks are going to scream that Iran is sponsoring terrorism.
> 
> And there's nothing we can do to stop any of this.





> And there's nothing we can do to stop any of this.


Nothing expect a economic crisis again.  And riots over food prices.Which had being strangely growing more or so here in Canada. I hear rumors of a potential economic crisis happening.

Looks like they have being planning this crisis for a long time. Hoping to profit from it.

----------


## nikcers

> NeoCons wanted to designated them as terrorists because they needed enemies, America is already helping Jihadists in Syria. Its rather comical how we arent bombing any more AQ officials eh?


America voted overwhelmingly for the guy who ran on the platform of taking the oil in Iraq
 The congress didnt elect themselves either. They could of sent different people to washington if this wasnt what they wanted.

----------


## susano

> Indignation about IRAN attacking Americans is perfectly justified.
> We didn't invade Iran.


The United States invaded Iraq. It was not justified. Once that happened, the US was in no position to be indignant about the next door neighbor of Iraq getting involved and killing US troops. To claim the US had or has any right to be indignant about it's forces getting killed by by a party they did not invade, while they were/are invaders and occupiers themselves, is madness. This is not about likeing the Iranian regime. It's about acknowledging that they had/have a legitimate interest in what goes on right next door. Western occupation of their neighbor poses a real threat to them.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> America voted overwhelmingly for the guy who ran on the platform of taking the oil in Iraq
>  The congress didnt elect themselves either. They could of sent different people to washington if this wasnt what they wanted.





> America voted overwhelmingly for the guy who ran on the *platform of taking the oil in Iraq*


Well about that... Trump sort did but in Northern Syria and his using the Kurds hatred of the Syrian gov to get away with as well. 

Source



> Trump has said he hopes to secure a US share of Syrian oil revenues, which is potentially a war crime





> The US military has started reinforcing its positions around oil fields in eastern Syria, saying the new deployments are part of its continuing counter-terrorist mission after the killing of the Islamic State leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

----------


## nikcers

> The United States invaded Iraq. It was not justified. Once that happened, the US was in no position to be indignant about the next door neighbor of Iraq getting involved and killing US troops. To claim the US had or has any right to be indignant about it's forces getting killed by by a party they did not invade, while they were/are invaders and occupiers themselves, is madness. This is not about likeing the Iranian regime. It's about acknowledging that they had/have a legitimate interest in what goes on right next door. Western occupation of their neighbor poses a real threat to them.


Thats what you say but Iraqs neighbor paid the price. So i guess we are in a position.

----------


## susano

> That should tell you to rethink your opinion.


I'm opposed to unjust wars. That's the biggest reason I supported Ron Paul. If some commie also happens to hold that position, I'm not going to change mine.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> The United States invaded Iraq. It was not justified. Once that happened, the US was in no position to be indignant about the next door neighbor of Iraq getting involved and killing US troops. To claim the US had or has any right to be indignant about it's forces getting killed by by a party they did not invade, while they were/are invaders and occupiers themselves, is madness. This is not about likeing the Iranian regime. It's about acknowledging that they had/have a legitimate interest in what goes on right next door. Western occupation of their neighbor poses a real threat to them.


We have just as much right to be indignant about someone we didn't attack killing us us Iraq had to be indignant that we attacked even though they did nothing to us.
Or are you going to say that Iraq had no right to be indignant we invaded when they attacked Kuwait?

Stop making excuses for Iran, Americans were not and are not fair game for Iran in Iraq.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I'm opposed to unjust wars. That's the biggest reason I supported Ron Paul. If some commie also happens to hold that position, I'm not going to change mine.


I also am opposed to unjust wars but killing an enemy who killed our men is not unjust and this is not a war.

And zippy is twisting the facts in that post.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> We have just as much right to be indignant about someone we didn't attack killing us us Iraq had to be indignant that we attacked even though they did nothing to us.
> Or are you going to say that Iraq had no right to be indignant we invaded when they attacked Kuwait?
> 
> Stop making excuses for Iran, Americans were not and are not fair game for Iran in Iraq.





> Or are you going to say that Iraq had no right to be indignant we invaded when they attacked Kuwait?


Or like how you Americans sided with the terrorist Albanians KLA and attacked Serbia bombed it for 80 days, destroying and poisoning civilians? and forcing Serbia to accpet surrender and allow Kosovo to be military occupied even to this day?

You Americans really don't have a good world rep right now and this attack in Iraq agaisnt Iran is not going to help your world image.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Or like how you Americans sided with the terrorist Albanians KLA and attacked Serbia bombed it for 80 days, destroying and poisoning civilians? and forcing Serbia to accpet surrender and allow Kosovo to be military occupied even to this day?
> 
> You Americans really don't have a good world rep right now and this attack in Iraq agaisnt Iran is not going to help your world image.


Completely irrelevant.

----------


## susano

> I hated to do it, but I had to break out the Wikipedia.  The Kurds are Sunni.
> 
> This makes sense now, based on Hussein's attempted incursions into Iran.  
> 
> Flashback to Scott Ritter's 2007ish "Calling Out Idiot America." 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some Kurds (PKK) are atheist communists, as well. Very complicated situation over there and all the more reason the US has no $#@!ing business there.

----------


## susano

> When you Americans imposed sanctions on Yugoslavia and in Bosnia it was impossible to buy or to find bread because of the prices had gone up because of the sanctions. Decades sanctions are still felt across the region.
> 
> The only way you had food was if you saw some Jihadists patrolling in some Muslim proxy groups occupied towns. Or at least if you stayed near the NATO/UN/American forces....


Are you Serb or from the former Yugoslavia? 

Balkans. Even more complex than the middle east!

----------


## susano

> Iran has been killing Americans in Iraq for many years.
> They should have been thanking us for taking out Saddam for them.


The US and the Brits overthrew the elected govt of Iran, installed the Shah as a puppet, who was brutal to all Iranian dissenters which led to the backlash of of the Islamic revolution. The US backed Saddam Hussein in a war against iran in which hundreds of thousands were killed, including with chemical weapons. Then the US killed their puppet, Saddam. The Iranians were/are not about to thank the US for anything.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> The US and the Brits overthrew the elected govt of Iran, installed the Shah as a puppet, who was brutal to all Iranian dissenters which led to the backlash of of the Islamic revolution. The US backed Saddam Hussein in a war against iran in which hundreds of thousands were killed, including with chemical weapons. Then the US killed their puppet, Saddam. The Iranians were/are not about to thank the US for anything.


I understand all that.
But it doesn't give them a license to kill Americans in Iraq.

----------


## susano

> 


Precisely and it's the same thing with Russia who is totally surrounded by US and NATO bases.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Precisely and it's the same thing with Russia who is totally surrounded by US and NATO bases.


It's not justification for killing Americans in Iraq.

----------


## susano

> You nailed it. This killing of this general was not done by a constitutional manner. Trump might have saved himself over the impeachment but how far will the senate go by defending Trump over a killing of Iranian general which wasn't done in a constitutional decision?
> 
> I think some Trump supporters in here need a cooler head to see some things.
> 
> By the way dont get me wrong i dont see any chance that Biden might have agaisnt Trump when knowing Biden has made mistakes. But Trump needs to be very careful of not letting himself be dragged by the deep state. Or whatever you want to call it. 
> 
> But i agree with the others trump isnt very smart either, the way he posted that American flag on his social media page wasn't a good idea.


Congress gave the go ahead on invading Iraq. Once that happened, the commander in chief is free to call the shots. The "attack" on the US embassy and the Pentagram claiming the Iranians were planning more attacks, including on US diplomats, predicated this action. Obviously, I don't agree with any of it but that's the way it is. Trump did not act unconstitutionally and was within his authority.

----------


## kpitcher



----------


## AngryCanadian

> Are you Serb or from the former Yugoslavia? 
> 
> Balkans. Even more complex than the middle east!


I think this fits the Balkans well.

----------


## susano

> Returning to the era of *2004*.


He's a great journalist. Here's a piece from a couple of days ago that gives a lot of insight into the situation:

https://ejmagnier.com/2020/01/02/how...ts-thinktanks/

----------


## susano

> Thats what you say but Iraqs neighbor paid the price. So i guess we are in a position.


The US has lost over 5000 soldiers in Iraq so I guess 5000 more is no biggie.

----------


## susano

> I also am opposed to unjust wars but killing an enemy who killed our men is not unjust and this is not a war.
> 
> And zippy is twisting the facts in that post.


It IS a war. In Iraq. Has been since the US invaded. It may ebb and flow but it's a war, nevertheless.

----------


## susano

> We have just as much right to be indignant about someone we didn't attack killing us us Iraq had to be indignant that we attacked even though they did nothing to us.
> Or are you going to say that Iraq had no right to be indignant we invaded when they attacked Kuwait?
> 
> Stop making excuses for Iran, Americans were not and are not fair game for Iran in Iraq.



I'm not making excuses for Iran. I'm telling it like it is. When any country decides to play empire, anyone else can and might attack them and are are no more out of line than the US is who never should have invaded Iraq in the first place.

----------


## susano

> I think this fits the Balkans well.


I've been on many  a thread with people posting from there who argue with each other. Serbs, Croats, Montenegrans, Albanians, the whole lot. All conversions end up going back hundreds of years! The most recent was over Montenegro passing the law to take Serbian Orthodox church property for the Montenegran Orthodox church, which the Serbs argue isn't recognized and the Montenegrans argue was stolen in WWI.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I've been on many  a thread with people posting from there who argue with each other. Serbs, Croats, Montenegrans, Albanians, the whole lot. All conversions end up going back hundreds of years! The most recent was over Montenegro passing the law to take Serbian Orthodox church property for the Montenegran Orthodox church, which the Serbs argue isn't recognized and the Montenegrans argue was stolen in WWI.


Montenegrins are still Serbs in General.
They are bond by heritage and gene so they cant deny that. They claim what they wish but Montenegrans were forced to join NATO. And yes Balkans are lot more complex another place i wish the American gov would stay away.

----------


## Slave Mentality

> Yeah im going to just ignore your bull$#@!. I have had poor health my whole life and when my friend came back from bootcamp he said i couldn't handle it. I trust someone who known me since i was 6 and gone through bootcamp on that one.





> Like I said, chicken hawk.   All for war, but won't actually go fight.  Delicate little flower on the outside, demanding that politicians send other people's healthy boys off to die to protect your honor.
> 
> You repulse all decent people.


I am not claiming to be decent, but am indeed repulsed as $#@!.

----------


## Aratus

> Ah, loopholes. Congress is always happy to delegate their power to the POTUS, especially if it is a controversial action. The media has been very clear that this was all Trump...no doubt they dont want this to be attached to any other politicians.


sadly, yes.  Donald  John Trump is being impeached for the wrong reasons 
or alternatively  because of  the much lesser deeds he is also  very guilty of.

----------


## Aratus

> 


..................................................  ..................................................  ...................

----------


## Warlord

*Iran vows revenge amid fears of 'devastating war': Supreme leader promises 'jihad' against US for killing general as Hezbollah vows 'worldwide resistance' and Americans are told 'Leave Iraq NOW'*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-seven.html

----------


## juleswin

> Yeah im going to just ignore your bull$#@!. I have had poor health my whole life and when my friend came back from bootcamp he said i couldn't handle it. I trust someone who known me since i was 6 and gone through bootcamp on that one.


I truly believe that because of your defects as a human being which you have admitted to that makes you incapable of fighting, you should have zero input in matters concerning war. Go to the podiatrist and psychiatrist and get yourself fixed before delving into the matters of war. You people are going to be the death of us.

----------


## Warlord

The resistance being mobilized:

It comes as Iraqi Shia militia leader Muqtada al-Sadr ordered the reformation of the Mahdi Army which fought against US troops during the invasion in 2003. Sadr had disbanded the group in 2008. 

The leader of Lebanon's Tehran-backed Hezbollah group Hassan Nasrallah announced: 'We will carry a flag on all battlefields and all fronts and we will step up the victories of the axis of resistance with the blessing of his pure blood.' 

Iranian Defense Minister Amir Hatami also paid tribute to Soleimani, vowing: 'A crushing revenge will be taken for Soleimani's unjust assassination.'

----------


## vita3

War is a racket.

Trump talked a good game about getting out of Syria but actions have gone 100% other way, 


 this killing being his crossing the rubicon moment.


Not good.

----------


## asurfaholic

Endless war is making me weary. Eventually somethings going to snap and all of us are going to feel the effects; while those in power pass the buck and take more power.

----------


## specsaregood

I'm laughing at the liberals that are apologizing to Iran and crying impeachment or unconstitutional!

If one is upset about Trump killing this POS; but not upset about Obama bombing weddings or assassinating an American teenager then you are a POS as well.
This isn't going to lead to any $#@!ing WW3, that's just the usual hyperbolic exclamations by partisan dumbasses.

I don't really like that Trump did this without congressional approval, but congress abdicated that power decades ago.  One can't go whining about it being used now without first impeaching all the presidents before him that did the same damn thing.   

Judging Trumps actions on this just through the lens of what other presidents have done (not a constitutional conservative lens), then one would have to say "Good Job Trump."  It wasn't like this Soleimani $#@! was flying into Baghdad on a peacekeeping mission; he was there to stir $#@! up.

*note, if you were anti-Bush doing this $#@! and anti-Obama doing this $#@!, then you still have the right to be upset about Trump doing this $#@!. by all means, carry on.

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## oyarde

> http://news.sky.com/story/qassem-sol...lling-11900263


Ya I would expect increased shipping incidents in retaliation.

----------


## JoshLowry

> Originally Posted by JoshLowry
> 
> 
> Trump said he was against Endless War.
> 
> That's not how this works.
> 
> I deal in reality, thanks.
> 
> ...

----------


## mattniers

> And does America need a huge occupational embassy in Iraq to show what a big penis it has?


Anyone who says that killing Soleimani is a good thing is essentially a supporter of ISIS.

----------


## AngryCanadian



----------


## nikcers

> And does America need a huge occupational embassy in Iraq to show to the world what a big penis it has?
> And a one that looks like the vatican?


Americans spent trillions on Iraq. So Iran can take it over?

----------


## nikcers

> According to the Shia religion it does.


Thats what the deputy commander of the IRGC said. LOL

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Anyone who says that killing Soleimani is a good thing is essentially a supporter of ISIS.


Are you serious? Soleimani fought agaisnt ISIS in Syria! Iranians are agaisnt ISIS some of you Trump just ridicules now.

----------


## mattniers

> Americans spent trillions on Iraq. So Iran can take it over?


That's America's fault. Plus lots of wealthy Americans got rich from the Iraq war and are still getting rich. If Iran takes over Iraq (a mathematical impossibility), then Iran will lose in the long run.

----------


## mattniers

> Are you serious? Soleimani fought agaisnt  ISIS in Syria! Iranians are agaisnt ISIS some of you Trump just  ridicules now.



Re-read my post, friend. If you believe that killing Soleimani is a good thing, then you are a supporter of ISIS, therefore Trump is a supporter of ISIS.

The prevalence of ISIS sympathizers in this thread is amazing. Vote Tump 2020! Make ISIS great again!

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Americans spent trillions on Iraq. So Iran can take it over?


You think its that simple? you Americans are still  in Japan and still in the Balkans. Doing what? pretending to be delivering security? in fears that Russia or China wont take over Europe?

----------


## nikcers

> That's America's fault. Plus lots of wealthy Americans got rich from the Iraq war and are still getting rich. If Iran takes over Iraq (a mathematical impossibility), then Iran will lose in the long run.


Its America's fault so Iran should be able to take over Iraq after we spent Trillions and Iran killed our soldiers fighting in Iraq? We took it over and we should give it to Iran for free???

----------


## mattniers

> Thats what the deputy commander of the IRGC said. LOL


As well as all Shia religious leaders, scholars.

----------


## mattniers

> Its America's fault so Iran should be able to take over Iraq after we spent Trillions and Iran killed our soldiers fighting in Iraq? We took it over and we should give it to Iran for free???


Iran didn't kill any US soldiers. US soldiers mostly just kill themselves.

----------


## SimmerDown

Anybody that doesn't support this war is commie scum.

----------


## JoshLowry

> Anyone who says that killing Soleimani is a good thing is essentially a supporter of ISIS.





> Are you serious? Soleimani fought agaisnt ISIS in Syria! Iranians are agaisnt ISIS some of you Trump just ridicules now.


Both of you are saying Soleimani fought against ISIS.  Is this info sourced online somewhere?

----------


## nikcers

> You think its that simple? you Americans are still  in Japan and still in the Balkans. Doing what? pretending to be delivering security? in fears that Russia or China wont take over Europe?


Trump is changing that. When we demanded Japan's surrender in world war 2 we promised to protect them from countries like China because China would want revenge against them. When Trump took office he said business as usual isnt going to happen. Japan has its own military its building up for the first time and he is making our other allies pay for defense. You keep pretending like Trump hasnt changed foreign policy significantly using old talking points are you just not paying attention??

----------


## nikcers

> Iran didn't kill any US soldiers. US soldiers mostly just kill themselves.


Yeah except Iran admits to funding and training and arming terrorists in the middle east that they call allies. That are basically proxy armies that have killed thousands of Americans.  If i pay a hit man to kill you am I not liable?

----------


## mattniers

> Both of you are saying Soleimani fought against ISIS.  Is this info sourced online somewhere?


https://www.theamericanconservative....-ruin-of-isis/

----------


## mattniers

> Yeah except Iran admits to funding and training and arming terrorists in the middle east that they call allies. That are basically proxy armies that have killed thousands of Americans.  If i pay a hit man to kill you am I not liable?


No they don't. Try again. Unless those thousands of Americans are ISIS members, then yes, Iran is guilty of killing American ISIS members which made Trump mad.

----------


## nikcers

> Anybody that doesn't support this war is commie scum.


Only people that preach that the solution to Americas problems is to adopt Cuban style socialism and people with Che Guevara avatars

----------


## nikcers

> No they don't. Try again.


They do admit to being allys with groups that commit acts of terror in the middle east. Show me a source that refutes this.

----------


## mattniers

> They do admit to being allys with groups that commit acts of terror in the middle east. Show me a source that refutes this.


Which groups are those? Hezbollah in Lebanon hasn't killed any US troops or committed any acts of terror. Our good friend Saudi Arabia has funded hundreds of groups which commit terror attacks, yet Trump bends over and takes it up the ass for the Saudi terrorists.

----------


## acptulsa

> Its America's fault so Iran should be able to take over Iraq after we spent Trillions and Iran killed our soldiers fighting in Iraq? We took it over and we should give it to Iran for free???


Nice of you to show your true colors, neocon.



So if I'm understanding you, Iraq isn't Iran's back yard, though those two are right next door to each other, it's ours, though we are ten thousand miles away.  And the reason why is Dubya and Cheney caused American blood and treasure to be wasted there, so even though that has been called, "The Biggest Foreign Policy Blunder in American History," we can't cut our losses.  We have to continue to spill blood and treasure on it forever lest it be said American blood was spilt in vain.  That about it?

Or is it about the oil to you?  Trump voters all picked one or two of his mass of contradictory statements to use as an excuse for their vote.  Was yours, "Take the oil"?  Do you figure, just as spilling American blood in a boondoggle makes maintaining the boondoggle a moral imperative, that the most biggest dinosaur bones were found in Oklahoma, so all the dinosaurs belong to the U.S?  And since nothing is left of them but oil...

Or maybe you just want your Raytheon, Boeing and Halliburton stock to go up.

Did you know they wrote a song about you?

----------


## Todd

> Or different things are different. I don't want war, but I also won't cower like a beaten dog when faced with lunatic killers like the leaders of Iran, they would happily kill you and everyone you ever cared about. If Trump wanted open war with Iran, there have been several prior opportunities that we saw him decline.


LOL. The only really threatening lunatic killers in Iran to me and my family are most likely rogue CIA agents who keep pissing off Iranian citizens.   

Serious Question?   Are you in the military?  If not why not back up your statement join the infantry and go be a big dog and fight the Iranian lunatics.  Or are you a armchair warrior dog?

----------


## JoshLowry

> They do admit to being allys with groups that commit acts of terror in the middle east. Show me a source that refutes this.




"Acts of terror" is how you CHOOSE to frame the picture.  Can't refute your opinion.

----------


## nikcers

> Nice of you to show your true colors, neocon.
> 
> 
> So if I'm understanding you, Iraq isn't Iran's back yard, though those two are right next door to each other, it's ours, though we are ten thousand miles away.  And the reason why is Dubya and Cheney caused American blood and treasure to be wasted there, so even though that has been called, "The Biggest Foreign Policy Blunder in American History," we have to maintain it forever lest it be said American blood was spilt in vain.  That about it?
> 
> Or is it about the oil to you.  Trump voters all picked one or two of his mass of contradictory statements to use as an excuse for their vote.  Was yours, "Take the oil"?  Do you figure, just as spilling American blood in a boondoggle makes maintaining the boondoggle a moral imperative, that the most biggest dinosaur bones were found in Oklahoma, so all the dinosaurs belong to the U.S?  And since nothing is left of them but oil...


Your backyard is your property.. We spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives there. Iran can't have it for free.

----------


## nikcers

> "Acts of terror" is how you CHOOSE to frame the picture.  Can't refute your opinion.


If military bases were acts of terrorism than your picture would make sense.

----------


## mattniers

> Your backyard is your property.. We spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives there. Iran can't have it for free.


You keep saying Iran can't have it for free. It won't be free for Iran either because they will struggle just as the US did. Iran will only have it for free if the Iraqis let them. And IF the Iraqis want Iran, then who are you to tell them otherwise?

----------


## nikcers

> LOL. The only really threatening lunatic killers in Iran to me and my family are most likely rogue CIA agents who keep pissing off Iranian citizens.   
> 
> Serious Question?   Are you in the military?  If not why not back up your statement join the infantry and go be a big dog and fight the Iranian lunatics.  Or are you a armchair warrior dog?


In my experience if we only let people in the military decide if we go to.war its not going to get us into any less wars. Its not like they pay their own salary either. Thats like letting walmart decide if you are going to spend all your money there.

----------


## mattniers

> Nice of you to show your true colors, neocon.


Neocon is a good description, but ISIS sympathizer would be a more apt description for anti-Iran types.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

January 3, 2020
*Israel puts military on heightened alert after U.S. killing of Iranian commander


Related
**Pompeo says God may have sent Trump to save Israel from Iran*

----------


## acptulsa

> Your backyard is your property.. We spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives there. Iran can't have it for free.


"I got shot stealing this from the rightful owner and had to pay a lawyer to get me off.  You think I'm gonna let *you* have it?!  It's *mine*!!

----------


## nikcers

> You keep saying Iran can't have it for free. It won't be free for Iran either because they will struggle just as the US did. Iran will only have it for free if the Iraqis let them. And IF the Iraqis want Iran, then who are you to tell them otherwise?


The most powerful military in the history of mankind? You know the one that defeated Iraq's military. Iran can't have it for free after that. You know the country that defeated Iraq and spent Trillions there.. You and what army you say??

----------


## nikcers

> "I got shot stealing this from the rightful owner and had to pay a lawyer to get me off.  You think I'm gonna let *you* have it?!  It's *mine*!!


Iran was the rightful owner of Iraq?? Than they should pay us for getting rid of Iraq.

----------


## JoshLowry

> If military bases were acts of terrorism than your picture would make sense.


I think you're starting to get it.   War is not peace

----------


## Brian4Liberty

>

----------


## oyarde

> No evidence for this statement, unless you consider Iraqi ISIS members to be 'innocent'.


Which caliphate is it you are rooting for ? Is one going to be better than others ?

----------


## mattniers

> Which caliphate is it you are rooting for ? Is one going to be better than others ?


Your post makes zero sense as Iranians are Shia and Shias don't believe in a caliphate. But if you must know, Iran is the one that protected the Christians in Syria from ISIS. Whereas America sponsored the genocide of Iraq and Syria's Christians through its ISIS proxy. So yes, not killing Christians is a good thing.

----------


## oyarde

> Your post makes zero sense as Iranians are Shia and Shias don't believe in a caliphate. But if you must know, Iran is the one that protected the Christians in Syria from ISIS. Whereas America sponsored the genocide of Iraq and Syria's Christians through its ISIS proxy. So yes, not killing Christians is a good thing.


Ah , so you are Shia .I am old and it is hard for me to keep up with religions .

----------


## oyarde

If it makes anyone feel any better this will be me fourth consecutive year of paying no tax so I am not funding anything .

----------


## mattniers

Hezbollah and other Iranian fighters liberating/saluting the Christian churches of Syria from America-sponsored ISIS terrorists:

----------


## mattniers

> Ah , so you are Shia .I am old and it is hard for me to keep up with religions .


Not a Shia or even a Muslim. Most Norwegians are not Muslim. It's possible to know about other religions and not be a follower of that religion. It's called opening and reading a book.

----------


## Anti Globalist

> If it makes anyone feel any better this will be me fourth consecutive year of paying no tax so I am not funding anything .


We all wish we weren't funding any of this.

----------


## Ender

> Not a Shia or even a Muslim. Most Norwegians are not Muslim. It's possible to know about other religions and not be a follower of that religion. It's called opening and reading a book.


Yep.

I've been called a Muslim for knowing about most all religions & rallying to uphold the 1st Amendment.

----------


## oyarde

> Not a Shia or even a Muslim. Most Norwegians are not Muslim. It's possible to know about other religions and not be a follower of that religion. It's called opening and reading a book.


Ya I never liked Norway , the fish is not good and gas prices too high . I have actually lived in a lot of other countries but the few friends I made were not often religious asnd I have little interest in it .

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> Naaa, he's just playing his part in the script, as ordered, lest Epstein's videos of him porking little kids is released.
> 
> Never forget:


Granted  there have been MSM reports about Epstein blackmailing politicians and UK's Sun and other media has published phots of MAGA leader with daughter of Israeli spy and Epstein associate Maxwell, there is no credible report in MSM outside of various conspiracy theories saying that Epstein was blackmailing him also. 



Hardcore conservative Pat Buchanan had also talked about neoconservatives Mideast reshaping plan as being cited by Gen Clark in that video with some different nuances and angles.


*

**Pat Buchanan: Will Bibi’s war become America’s war?*

Pat Buchanan   | Tuesday, September 3, 2019

President Trump, who canceled a missile strike on Iran after the   shoot-down of a U.S. Predator drone, to avoid killing Iranians, may not   want a U.S. war with Iran. But the same cannot be said of Bibi   Netanyahu.

 On Aug. 21, Israel launched a night attack on a village south of   Damascus to abort what Israel claims was a plot by Iran’s Revolutionary   Guards’ Quds Force to fly “killer drones” into Israel, an act of war.

 The next day, two Israeli drones crashed outside the media offices of   Hezbollah in Beirut. Israel then attacked a base camp of the Popular   Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command in north Lebanon.
 The following Monday, Israel admitted to a strike on Iranian-backed  militias of the Popular Mobilization Forces in Iraq. And Israel does not  deny responsibility for July’s attacks on munitions dumps and bases of  pro-Iran militias in Iraq.
 Understandably, Israel’s actions have brought threats of retaliation.   Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah has warned of vengeance   for the death of his people in the Syria strike.
 On Aug. 20, in the 71st week of the “Great March of Return” protests   on Gaza’s border, 50 Palestinians were wounded by Israeli live fire. In   16 months, 200 have died from gunshots, with thousands wounded.
 America’s reaction to Israel’s recent attacks? Secretary of State  Mike  Pompeo called Netanyahu to assure him of U.S. support of Israel’s   actions. Some Iraqi leaders are now calling for the expulsion of   Americans.
 Why is Netanyahu now admitting to Israel’s role in the strikes in  Lebanon, Syria and Iraq? Why has he begun threatening Iran itself and  even the Houthi rebels in Yemen?



*Whose War?*





*The Neoconservatives
*
Who  are the neoconservatives? The first generation were ex-liberals,   socialists, and Trotskyites, boat-people from the McGovern revolution   who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism’s long march to   power with Ronald Reagan in 1980.
A neoconservative, wrote Kevin  Phillips back then, is more likely to be  a magazine editor than a  bricklayer. Today, he or she is more likely  to be a resident scholar at a  public policy institute such as the  American Enterprise Institute (AEI)  or one of its clones like the  Center for Security Policy or the Jewish  Institute for National  Security Affairs (JINSA). As one wag writes, a  neocon is more familiar  with the inside of a think tank than an Abrams  tank.
Almost none came out of the business world or military, and  few if any  came out of the Goldwater campaign. The heroes they invoke  are Woodrow  Wilson, FDR, Harry Truman, Martin Luther King, and  Democratic Senators  Henry “Scoop” Jackson (Wash.) and Pat Moynihan  (N.Y.).
All are interventionists who regard Stakhanovite support  of Israel as a  defining characteristic of their breed. Among their  luminaries are  Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Michael Novak, and James  Q. Wilson.
Their publications include the _Weekly Standard, Commentary,_ the_ New Republic, National Review,_ and the editorial page of the _Wall Street Journal._  Though  few in number, they wield disproportionate power through  control of the  conservative foundations and magazines, through their  syndicated  columns, and by attaching themselves to men of power.

*Beating the War Drums

*When  the Cold War ended, these neoconservatives began casting about  for a  new crusade to give meaning to their lives. On Sept. 11, their  time  came. They seized on that horrific atrocity to steer America’s  rage into  all-out war to destroy their despised enemies, the Arab and  Islamic  “rogue states” that have resisted U.S. hegemony and loathe  Israel.

Here was a cabal of intellectuals telling the Commander-in-Chief,  nine  days after an attack on America, that if he did not follow their  war  plans, he would be charged with surrendering to terror. Yet,  Hezbollah  had nothing to do with 9/11. What had Hezbollah done?  Hezbollah had  humiliated Israel by driving its army out of Lebanon.
President  Bush had been warned. He was to exploit the attack of 9/11 to  launch a  series of wars on Arab regimes, none of which had attacked  us. *All,  however, were enemies of Israel. “Bibi” Netanyahu, the  former Prime  Minister of Israel, like some latter-day Citizen Genet,  was ubiquitous  on American television, calling for us to crush the  “Empire of Terror.”*  The “Empire,” it turns out, consisted of Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq,  and “the Palestinian enclave.”

*“Securing the Realm”
*
The principal draftsman  is Richard Perle, an aide to Sen. Scoop  Jackson, who, in 1970, was  overheard on a federal wiretap discussing  classified information from  the National Security Council with the  Israeli Embassy. In Jews and  American Politics, published in 1974,  Stephen D. Isaacs wrote, “Richard  Perle and Morris Amitay command a  tiny army of Semitophiles on Capitol  Hill and direct Jewish power in  behalf of Jewish interests.” In 1983,  the New York Times reported that  Perle had taken substantial payments  from an Israeli weapons  manufacturer.
In 1996, with Douglas Feith  and David Wurmser, Perle wrote “A Clean  Break: A New Strategy for  Securing the Realm,” for Prime Minister  Netanyahu. In it, Perle, Feith,  and Wurmser urged Bibi to ditch the  Oslo Accords of the assassinated  Yitzak Rabin and adopt a new  aggressive strategy:

Israel can shape its strategic environment, in  cooperation with Turkey  and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even  rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein  from power in Iraq—an important Israeli strategic objective in its own  right—as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions. Jordan has  challenged Syria’s regional ambitions recently by suggesting the  restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq.
In the Perle-Feith-Wurmser  strategy, Israel’s enemy remains Syria,  but the road to Damascus runs  through Baghdad. Their plan, which urged  Israel to re-establish “the  principle of preemption,” has now been  imposed by Perle, Feith, Wurmser  & Co. on the United States.
In his own 1997 paper, “A Strategy  for Israel,” Feith pressed Israel to  re-occupy “the areas under  Palestinian Authority control,” though “the  price in blood would be  high.”
Wurmser, as a resident scholar at AEI, drafted joint war  plans for  Israel and the United States “to fatally strike the centers of   radicalism in the Middle East. Israel and the United States should …   broaden the conflict to strike fatally, not merely disarm, the centers   of radicalism in the region—the regimes of Damascus, Baghdad, Tripoli,   Tehran, and Gaza. That would establish the recognition that fighting   either the United States or Israel is suicidal.”
He urged both  nations to be on the lookout for a crisis, for as he  wrote, “Crises can  be opportunities.” Wurmser published his  U.S.-Israeli war plan on Jan.  1, 2001, nine months before 9/11.
About the Perle-Feith-Wurmser cabal, author Michael Lind writes:
The  radical Zionist right to which Perle and Feith belong is small in   number but it has become a significant force in Republican policy-making   circles. It is a recent phenomenon, dating back to the late 1970s and   1980s, when many formerly Democratic Jewish intellectuals joined the   broad Reagan coalition. While many of these hawks speak in public about   global crusades for democracy, the chief concern of many such   “neo-conservatives” is the power and reputation of Israel.

----------


## devil21

It's almost like US troops and taxpayer money is being used to clear the path for China's giant One Belt One Road infrastructure and trade route project.  Compare the land route to where "stuff" keeps happening.  It's uncanny.  Ukraine, Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc

Naaa.......that couldn't be it.  Hate 'murican freedoms is the reason.  Hannity said so.  But it's also odd since China, Russia and Iran have been very friendly lately and even holding military drills together.


(pic is courtesy of the World Bank)


Chinese UN Ambassador urges 'calm and restraint'
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/ea...s-iran-general

----------


## mattniers

> Ya I never liked Norway , the fish is not good and gas prices too high . I have actually lived in a lot of other countries but the few friends I made were not often religious asnd I have little interest in it .


Never lived for an extended period of time in Norway. My dad is actually Norwegian, my mom is American. I only visited when I was a kid.

----------


## nikcers

> If they didn't get involved then Iran would have to fight ISIS on Iranian territory. They got involved in Iraq to protect themselves from ISIS. But as an ISIS sympathizer, you want ISIS to flourish and Iran prevented that, so that's why you are anti-Iran.


If i go pick a fight with the guy across the street and pull my gun out and shoot him and his neighbor comes into the guys front yard and attacks me its his fault for getting involved if he gets shot.

----------


## mattniers

> If i go pick a fight with the guy accross the street and pull my gun out and shoot him and his neighbor comes into the guys front yard and attacks me its his fault for getting involved if he gets shot.


OK, ISIS sympathizer. Thanks for the toddler-brain view.

----------


## oyarde

> Never lived for an extended period of time in Norway. My dad is actually Norwegian, my mom is American. I only visited when I was a kid.


Here in the states there are a lot of weirdo Scandinavian communists in Minnesota and crappy places like Madison Wisconsin . The Twin cities are over run with them .

----------


## RonZeplin

Jimmy Carter's CIA Iranianian Revolution lives on, now under new management.

----------


## JoshLowry

> If i go pick a fight with the guy across the street and pull my gun out and shoot him and his neighbor comes into the guys front yard and attacks me its his fault for getting involved if he gets shot.


You didn't come from across the street.  It's not even your neighborhood.

And you recently picked a fight with like five sovereigns on the same street...

----------


## mattniers

> Here in the states there are a lot of weirdo Scandinavian communists in Minnesota and crappy places like Madison Wisconsin . The Twin cities are over run with them .


Scandinavians are weirdos. It's funny because I just finished watching a Simpsons episode where their town of Springfield was overrun with Norwegian immigrants.

----------


## mattniers

> You didn't come from across the street.  It's not even your neighborhood.



But..but...but...*WE* spent trillions of dollars there. Iran can't have it for free. We must spent even more trillions to prevent Iran from spending their trillions in Iraq.

----------


## Ender

> If i go pick a fight with the guy across the street and pull my gun out and shoot him and his neighbor comes into the guys front yard and attacks me its his fault for getting involved if he gets shot.


But if you come on the guy's property w/o asking & start shooting & killing while endangering the neighbor's safety, it is your fault.

----------


## nikcers

> You didn't come from across the street.  It's not even your neighborhood.
> 
> And you recently picked a fight with like 5 property owners on the same street...


Its a metaphor to illustrate the analogy that Iran shouldnt of got involved and talked $#@! and killed Americans smart ass. The moral of the story is talk $#@! get hit. The moral of the story is mind your own business.

----------


## mattniers

> Its a metaphor to illustrate the analogy that Iran shouldnt of got involved and talked $#@! and killed Americans smart ass. The moral of the story is talk $#@! get hit. The moral of the story is mind your own business.


Iran never killed any Americans in Iraq. The Americans mostly did it to themselves. Therefore Americans killed in Iraq deserve zero sympathy.

----------


## nikcers

> But if you come on the guy's property w/o asking & start shooting & killing while endangering the neighbor's safety, it is your fault.


Their neighbor was always a $#@!ty neighbor whos kids endangered their property.. They should of minded their own business.

----------


## JoshLowry

> Its a metaphor to illustrate the analogy that Iran shouldnt of got involved and talked $#@! and killed Americans smart ass. The moral of the story is talk $#@! get hit. The moral of the story is mind your own business.


Context is important.

The US should mind their own business.

This isn't a war on terror, this is a campaign of terror.

----------


## nikcers

> Iran never killed any Americans in Iraq. The Americans mostly did it to themselves.


Iran was involved with the death of thousands of Americans. Stop spreading Iranian propaghanda.

----------


## mattniers

> Iran was involved with the death of thousands of Americans. Stop spreading Iranian propaghanda.


No they weren't because the Americans did it to themselves. Stop spreading ISIS propaganda.

----------


## navy-vet

> Never lived for an extended period of time in Norway. My dad is actually Norwegian, my mom is American. I only visited when I was a kid.


hmm

----------


## mattniers

> Context is important.
> 
> The US should mind their own business.
> 
> This isn't a war on terror, this is a campaign of terror.


And calling you a smart-ass was uncalled for, especially from an ISIS sympathizer.

----------


## nikcers

> No they weren't because the Americans did it to themselves. Stop spreading ISIS propaganda.


ISIS never killed Americans. America funded and created ISIS. Stop spreading ISIS propaganda

----------


## nikcers

> And calling you a smart-ass was uncalled for, especially from an ISIS sympathizer.


What would you call someone who straw man arguments a metaphor instead of debating the implied argument?

----------


## mattniers

> ISIS never killed Americans.


But they killed a lot of Iraqi and Syrian Christians whom Iran and Soleimani protected.

----------


## mattniers

> What would you call someone who straw man arguments a metaphor instead of debating the implied argument?


No need to insult JoshLowry. He's not a supporter of ISIS like you are.

----------


## acptulsa

> What would you call someone who straw man arguments a metaphor instead of debating the implied argument?


I often call that someone "nickers".

----------


## spudea

> LOL. The only really threatening lunatic killers in Iran to me and my family are most likely rogue CIA agents who keep pissing off Iranian citizens.   
> 
> Serious Question?   Are you in the military?  If not why not back up your statement join the infantry and go be a big dog and fight the Iranian lunatics.  Or are you a armchair warrior dog?


If open war comes, I will proceed to the nearest recruitment center. I don't expect it to escalate to open war, Iranian leaders are lunatics, but are they stupid?

----------


## nikcers

> But they killed a lot of Iraqi and Syrian Christians whom Iran and Soleimani protected.


Iran is so good to Christians who live in Iran. LOL

----------


## mattniers

> Iran is so good to Christians who live in Iran. LOL


Much better than our ally Saudi Arabia.

----------


## Ender

> Their neighbor was always a $#@!ty neighbor whos kids endangered their property.. They should of minded their own business.


No- YOU should have minded your own business- you had no right to be on the guy's property.

----------


## mattniers

> No- YOU should have minded your own business- you had no right to be on the guy's property.


It's funny how he mentions 'kids'. Typical ISIS supporter with a blood-lust for innocent children.

----------


## nikcers

> Much better than our ally Saudi Arabia.


Thats debatable. Christians in Iran are imprisoned just like Saudi Arabia. They aren't treated any better.

----------


## mattniers

> Thats debatable. Christians in Iran are imprisoned just like Saudi Arabia. They aren't treated any better.


Funny how an ISIS supporter now has concerns about Christians.

----------


## nikcers

> No- YOU should have minded your own business- you had no right to be on the guy's property.


Iran doesnt own Iraq. They can't have it for free. We paid for it through blood and treasure.

----------


## Ender

> Iran is so good to Christians who live in Iran. LOL


Ever seen Tehran pictures at Christmas? Looks like any city in the US.

----------


## nikcers

> Funny how an ISIS supporter now has concerns about Christians.


Iran doesn't treat them any better. The terrorists they fund kill Christians.

----------


## acptulsa

> Thats debatable. Christians in Iran are imprisoned just like Saudi Arabia. They aren't treated any better.


Actually, Saudi Arabia just kills them.




> Iran doesnt own Iraq. They can't have it for free. We paid for it through blood and treasure.


Spambot.

----------


## Ender

> Iran doesnt own Iraq. They can't have it for free. We paid for it through blood and treasure.


We STOLE it, Captain Barbosa, with lies & the MIC.

----------


## nikcers

> Ever seen Tehran pictures at Christmas? Looks like any city in the US.


Nice Iranian propaghanda. What about the ones in prison?

Open Doors has listed Iran in its top 10 most dangerous countries for Christians for nearly a decade. Pew Research, in a recent report, also lists Iran as having one of the highest levels of government restrictions on religion in the world.

Being a Christian in Iran automatically puts a persons life at risk, but its particularly dangerous for Iranians who have converted from Islam to Christianity. They have to live their faith secretly, pretending they are faithful Muslims when in reality they are Christians. These believers cannot go to one of the few churches the Iranian government has given limited permission to operate; they cannot hold services in Persian; they have to meet in secret to avoid attracting authorities.

----------


## nikcers

> We STOLE it, Captain Barbosa, with lies & the MIC.


Just like every other country in the world does. Its a dog eat dog world. We paid in blood and treasure. To the victor goes the spoils not the losers neighbor.

----------


## nikcers

> Actually, Saudi Arabia just kills them.
> 
> 
> 
> Spambot.


So does Iran. Lots of people in Iran have died or been imprisoned for being Christian.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> 


*FLASHBACK: Trump Predicted Obama Would Attack Iran To Get Re-Elected*

----------


## mattniers

> The terrorists they fund kill Christians.



No evidence for that statement. If this was even remotely true, it would be talked about constantly in the US mainstream media. Trump would also use this as an excuse to attack Iranian-backed groups. But Trump never mentions anything about Middle Eastern Christians, because Trump, like you, is an ISIS sympathizer who hates Middle Eastern Christians.

----------


## Ender

> Nice Iranian propaghanda. What about the ones in prison?
> 
> Open Doors has listed Iran in its top 10 most dangerous countries for Christians for nearly a decade. Pew Research, in a recent report, also lists Iran as having one of the highest levels of government restrictions on religion in the world.
> 
> Being a Christian in Iran automatically puts a person’s life at risk, but it’s particularly dangerous for Iranians who have converted from Islam to Christianity. They have to live their faith secretly, pretending they are faithful Muslims when in reality they are Christians. These believers cannot go to one of the few churches the Iranian government has given limited permission to operate; they cannot hold services in Persian; they have to meet in secret to avoid attracting authorities.


Ah, yes, Pew- we know how reliable they are. 

*Iran: Armenian Christians decorate cathedral for Christmas in Tehran*

----------


## nikcers

> Ah, yes, Pew- we know how reliable they are. 
> 
> *Iran: Armenian Christians decorate cathedral for Christmas in Tehran*


More Iranian propaghanda. They don't have freedom of speech there. Pretending that Iranians have freedom of speech is literally the dumbest thing you have ever posted. You make me laugh out loud when you post this garbage.

----------


## nikcers

> No evidence for that statement. If this was even remotely true, it would be talked about constantly in the US mainstream media. Trump would also use this as an excuse to attack Iranian-backed groups. But Trump never mentions anything about Middle Eastern Christians, because Trump, like you, is an ISIS sympathizer who hates Middle Eastern Christians.


Christian American's blood is on the hands of Iranians. Their state sponsoring terror and providing terrorists with weapons and training have killed thousands of Americans by proxy. If i paid a hitman to kill you i would be responsible for your death. That means they are responsible for the death of Christian Americans.

----------


## Ender

> More Iranian propaghanda. They don't have freedom of speech there. Pretending that Iranians have freedom of speech is literally the dumbest thing you have ever posted. You make me laugh out loud when you post this garbage.


Freedom of speech? Oh, you mean like free Amuricans who now cannot say anything bad about Israel or risk jail?

----------


## mattniers

> Christian American's blood is on the hands of Iranians. Their state sponsoring terror and providing terrorists with weapons and training have killed thousands of Americans by proxy. If i paid a hitman to kill you i would be responsible for your death. That means they are responsible for the death of Christian Americans.


No evidence for Iran killing Americans, Christians or otherwise. If Americans died in Iraq, it's their own fault and they deserve no sympathy.

----------


## nikcers

> Freedom of speech? Oh, you mean like free Amuricans who now cannot say anything bad about Israel or risk jail?


If you are comparing laws against American institutions and tax payer funded colleges teaching hatred of a nationality to freedom of speech that is tax exempt i can see why you think Iran has freedom of speech because you don't understand freedom of speech.

----------


## mattniers

> If you are comparing laws against American institutions and tax payer funded colleges teaching hatred of a nationality to freedom of speech that is tax exempt i can see why you think Iran has freedom of speech because you don't understand freedom of speech.


Actually Ender understands freedom of speech quite better than an ISIS supporter like you.

----------


## nikcers

> No evidence for Iran killing Americans, Christians or otherwise. If Americans died in Iraq, it's their own fault and they deserve no sympathy.


So if i pay a hitman to kill you i am not responsible if i deny all evidence that i paid for a hitman to kill you??

----------


## mattniers

> So if i pay a hitman to kill you i am not responsible if i deny all evidence that i paid for a hitman to kill you??


You have no money so you couldn't afford a hitman to begin with.

----------


## nikcers

> You have no money so you couldn't afford a hitman to begin with.


I deny all evidence that I have no money. I reject your reality and substitute my own

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> Ever seen Tehran pictures at Christmas? Looks like any city in the US.



Sometime after Ted Cruz Christians booing scandal, vaguely recall reading that Christians were treated better in Iraq than Israel before US neocons led 2003 war.
Iran, Dubai, UAE could be better also but have not read any detailed reporting on that.



*BBC NEWS | Israel hit by Bible burning row
*British Broadcasting Corporation
May 21, 2008 - the burning of hundreds of copies of the New Testament by Orthodox Jews *


Religious MK destroy Bible in the Knesset

*July 20, 2012 



 .. MK Michael Ben-Ari (National Union) for tearing a New Testament  and  throwing it in the trash, the Knesset’s sole Christian MK, Hanna   Sweid, said.

From: 
*Ted Cruz Booed Off Stage At Middle East Christian Conference*






It is plausible that wars hungry greed/racially motivated  neocon lobbies,  alleged anti-semitic Texas based groups like CUFI  (Christians United For Israel) have caused thoudands or millions times  more harm to mideast Christians than Iran could ever have.  Mideast  Christians in Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Egypt etc have paid the biggest  price probably than any other group since neocons lies based Iraq  freedom war bloodbath.  
Silverlining maybe that lately 'chosen race' talk has sharply decreased  in media especially after Bracak Hussein Obama election backfiring post  Iraqi freedom.  
Some Israeli, right wing jewish leaders tend to see mideast arab  christians as 'deeply anti-semitic'  also but there is no proof that   mideast Christians persecution of last couple of decades was planned  part of freedom spread wars' collateral demage.

----------


## mattniers

> Freedom of speech? Oh, you mean like free Amuricans who now cannot say anything bad about Israel or risk jail?


*Great article by Philip Giraldi. It's completely accurate regarding this particular issue:*

The pandering by Donald Trump and those around him to Israel and to some  conservative American Jews is apparently endless. Last Wednesday the  president signed an executive order  that is intended to address alleged anti-Semitism on college campuses  by cutting off funds to those universities that do not prevent criticism  of Israel. To provide a legal basis to defund, the administration is  relying on title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits any  discrimination based on race, color or national origin. Since the Act  does not include religion, Trump’s order is declaring _ipso facto_ that henceforth “Jewishness” is a nationality.

The  executive order does not mention Israel by name, but it does state that  its assumptions are based on “the non-legally binding working definition of anti-Semitism  adopted on May 26, 2016, by the International Holocaust Remembrance  Alliance (IHRA), which states, ‘Antisemitism is a certain perception of  Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and  physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or  non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community  institutions and religious facilities’; and (ii) the ‘Contemporary  Examples of Anti-Semitism’ identified by the IHRA, to the extent that  any examples might be useful as evidence of discriminatory intent.”

The IHRA “contemporary examples” supplementing the basic description are  important. They considerably broaden the definition of anti-Semitism,  to include “Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or  to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of  their own nations” and “claiming that the existence of a State of Israel  is a racist endeavor.” The examples also included holding Israel to a  higher standard than other nations when criticizing it, and IHRA offers  no possible mitigation even if the accusations are, in the case of the  behavior of some Jews and of Israel, accurate.

Those who are confused because in the past expressions like “Italian” or  “Irish” or “British” meant actual countries should recognize that  Trump-speak never respects any connection with reality when there is  political advantage just sitting out there waiting to be snatched and  exploited. And that imperative is considerably multiplied when one is  referring to either the state of Israel or of Jews in general,  particularly as seen by the Trump White House, which clearly and  repeatedly sends the message that it reveres both. Trump’s order will in  effect constitute a government-promoted argument that Jews are a people  or a race with a collective national origin, like Italian or Polish  Americans, an assertion that clearly is untrue.

In fact, suppressing criticism of Israel on college campuses using a “weaponized” claim of anti-Semitism  has long been a major foreign policy objective of the Israeli  government even though nonviolent assembly and free speech are  guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. Congress has several times  considered a comprehensive Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, though it has  not passed due to legitimate free speech concerns. The nonviolent  Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (B.D.S.), which is very  active on American campuses, has been particularly targeted and  criticism of it is frequent in the media and from Congress while also  emanating from the White House. As most accredited colleges receive  federal funding, which can be considerable at a major research  university, the executive order will create a major dilemma over how to  respond, particularly for those schools that have Middle East study  programs.

Work on the presidential executive order was initiated in the summer  inside the White House by a team led by Jared Kushner, Trump’s  son-in-law and senior adviser, together with his close aide special  assistant to the president Avi Berkowitz. They sought to develop a  formula whereby government policy would equate anti-Zionism with  anti-Semitism, and Donald Trump both agreed with that assessment and  followed through on it. On December 8th he promised to take action against B.D.S. and other critics in a speech  delivered before the Israeli-American Council. The speech is worth  reading in full by anyone who is concerned that the United States now  has a government that favors one already privileged, wealthy and  powerful constituency in particular and is not committed to upholding  the civil liberties of all Americans.

Israel  is an apartheid state. Covering up for its crimes against humanity as  well as its war crimes is something of a growth industry in the United  States, with Zionist billionaire oligarchs launching new foundations on a  regular basis. Jewish power in the U.S. means that Israel always has  been given a pass, even when it deliberately attacked and sought to sink  the U.S.S. Liberty, an American Naval vessel in international waters in  1967. Thirty-four crewman died in the assault. The subsequent  investigation of the attack was whitewashed by the president, secretary  of state and the Navy department while the survivors were threatened  with imprisonment if they revealed what had occurred. That is how a  powerful and ruthless Israel acting through its traitorous domestic  proxies operates and it illustrates how feeble the Establishment is in  standing up to it.

This latest outrage, in which free speech and association will be denied  to benefit one group on the basis of its claimed perpetual victimhood,  had its genesis earlier this year when the federal government’s  Education Department ordered Duke University and the University of North  Carolina at Chapel Hill to reorganize the Consortium for Middle East  Studies program run jointly by the two colleges in part based on their  failure to include enough “positive” content relating to Judaism. The  demand came with a threat to suspend federal funding of Title VI Higher  Education Act international studies and foreign language grants to the  two schools if the curriculum were not changed.

The Education Department was particularly irate over a conference in  March called “Conflict Over Gaza: People, Politics and Possibilities.” A  Republican congressman was outraged by the development and asked Secretary DeVos to investigate because the gathering was full of “radical anti-Israel bias.”

Coverage of the story revealed that “Betsy DeVos, the education  secretary, has become increasingly aggressive in going after perceived  anti-Israel bias in higher education.” Her deputy who has served as a  focal point for the effort to root out anti-Israel sentiment is Assistant Secretary of Civil Rights Kenneth L. Marcus,  who might reasonably be described as “a career pro-Israel advocate,”  the founder and president of the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human  Rights Under Law, which he has used to exclusively defend the rights of  Jewish groups and individuals against BDS and other manifestations of  Palestinian pushback against the Israeli occupation of their country. He  has not hesitated to call opponents anti-Semites and has worked with  Jewish students to file civil rights complaints against college  administrations, including schools in Wisconsin and California. In an op-ed that appeared, not surprisingly, in _The Jerusalem Post_,  he observed that even when student complaints were rejected, they  created major problems for the institutions involved. “If a university  shows a failure to treat initial complaints seriously, it hurts them  with donors, faculty, political leaders and prospective students.”

Last year Kenneth Marcus reopened an investigation into alleged anti-Jewish bias at Rutgers University  that the Obama Administration had closed after finding that the charges  were baseless. Marcus indicated that the re-examination was called for  as his office in the Education Department would henceforth be using the  IHRA-derived State Department definition of anti-Semitism  that also includes “denying the Jewish people their right to  self-determination,” making virtually all criticism of Israel a civil  rights violation or even a hate crime.

Critics of the Trump move, many of whom are themselves Jewish, are uncomfortable with being placed by government into one category, noting _inter alia_that ALL students are _de facto_  already protected by Title VI, which has been interpreted as making all  forms of discrimination illegal. And they also note that the law was  never intended to protect individuals whose feelings were hurt or who  claim to be unwelcome or even threatened by someone saying something  that they disapprove of. Since such protection is clearly the intention  of the executive order, it is undeniable that the Trump’s latest ploy is  little more than a mechanism to pressure colleges into effectively  banning B.D.S. and other groups critical of Israel.

And the order itself raises at least one unpleasant thought: if  “Jewishness” is a nation even though it is demonstrably not one, what is  the alleged Jewish nationality all about? Is this just one more example  of the politics of Jewish identity or is it really some form of dual  loyalty, with American Jews divided between those who are loyal to the  U.S. and those who are loyal to some supra-nationality or allegiance?  The fact is, that Donald Trump himself has several times expressed the  view that American Jews, particularly those who are politically liberal,  should be more loyal to Israel.

Trump’s maneuver is unfortunately part of a well-funded and highly coordinated federal and state campaign to pass laws to criminalize critics of Israel. And the issue has also surfaced within the Democratic Party among those campaigning for the presidential nomination. Speaker Nancy Pelosi forced Representative Ilhan Omar to apologize after she criticized proposed anti-boycott legislation. More recently Bernie Sanders is being smeared as an anti-Semite  even though he is Jewish because he associates with critics of Israel  and has spoken out in favor of defending free speech while also  supporting Palestinian rights.There  is a certain irony in all of this political theater, that the  wealthiest and most powerful identifiable group in the United States  should yet again be playing the victim is in itself astonishing. And  making it a crime to deny Israel legitimacy while at the same time  denying the same thing to Palestinians should give anyone pause.

And there is also considerable hypocrisy in that pro-Israel groups on  campus have been if anything better funded and more aggressive in  promoting their point of view than B.D.S. has been without any  consequences. Canary Mission,  for example, claims to “document people and groups that promote hatred  of the U.S.A., Israel and Jews on North American college campuses” by  posting their names, photos and personal information on its website.  Israeli-American real estate investor and billionaire Adam Milstein is  reported to be its principal funder  while the site’s listings have been allegedly used by the Israeli  border security officials to deny entry to pro-B.D.S. American citizens  and also with potential employers to deny applicants jobs.

The Lawfare Project’s Campus Civil Rights Project meanwhile helps aggrieved Zionist students  to “take legal action to ensure that schools live up to their legal  obligations to protect Jewish students from anti-Semitic harassment,  intimidation, and discrimination.”

So here we are again. Special privileges for the perpetual victims. And  no one in the media is willing to tell it like it is, while the handful  of meek voices in congress have been effectively silenced. So sad,  particularly as an election year is coming up and there will undoubtedly  be much more of this. When the Israelis occupy nearly all of the West  Bank with Donald Trump’s approval and start “relocating” the existing  population, who will be around to speak up? No one, as by that time  saying nay to Israel will be a full-fledged hate crime and you can go to  jail for doing so.

----------


## KEEF

> A little hyperbole never hurts, especially in the face of an entire FakeNews establishment that will spin this as nothing.
> 
> I wonder what it would be called if the Iranian government killed Pompeo in Iraq, and proudly took credit?


I know, I guess according to SSs definition of war, we have been all set then for the past nearly 20 years in the Middle East, and all those US troops and Middle East civilians are all good since we never technically declared war.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Trump is changing that. When we demanded Japan's surrender in world war 2 we promised to protect them from countries like China because China would want revenge against them. When Trump took office he said business as usual isnt going to happen. Japan has its own military its building up for the first time and he is making our other allies pay for defense. You keep pretending like Trump hasnt changed foreign policy significantly using old talking points are you just not paying attention??


You Americans basically turned Japan After WW2 into nothing more then mere puppet slaves while you are a master to the slave. You gave no freedoms to the Japanse people no wonder why Japaneses are having low birth rates.

American, Culture, Occupation are the reasons for the birth drops.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Trump current tweets on Iran just show how clueless he is on the middle east.

----------


## nikcers

> You Americans basically turned Japan After WW2 into nothing more then mere puppet slaves while you are a master to the slave. You gave no freedoms to the Japanse people no wonder why Japaneses are having low birth rates.
> 
> American, Culture, Occupation are the reasons for the birth drops.


If you're not American you have no say in the matter. We fought the revolution because we didn't want other people telling us what to do.

----------


## devil21

Clinton also launched a major Iraq airstrike during impeachment process
https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...achment-2020-1




> People on social media believe President Donald Trump may be taking a page from Bill Clinton's playbook by escalating tensions with Iraq amid his impeachment inquiry.
> 
> A 1998 New York Times front page has been shared multiple times on Twitter since Trump ordered an airstrike to kill top Iran military commander Qasem Soleimani at the Baghdad airport early Friday morning.  more

----------


## Todd

Maurice Motamed

----------


## Todd

Robert Beglarian

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Yep. Trillions of dollars, Americans that fought in the Iraq war died or have permanent psychological and physiological problems. We paid both blood and treasure for Iraq. Iran can't have it for free. Americans voted overwhelmingly for the guy who ran on that platform. *They could of voted for regime change creator of ISIS queen* or Rand Paul. They voted for the guy who literally said to the victor goes the spoils, take the oil.


Are you talking about Hillary? She was doing an interview yesterday when news of the death of Soleimani came in...

----------


## Influenza

> Christian American's blood is on the hands of Iranians. Their state sponsoring terror and providing terrorists with weapons and training have killed thousands of Americans by proxy. If i paid a hitman to kill you i would be responsible for your death. That means they are responsible for the death of Christian Americans.


What are you referring to exactly? Like during the Iraq war, where some of the shia groups were being funded by Iran? If so, all the US servicemen who died in the Iraq war _deserved to die_. I shed no tears for those who voluntarily served in an obviously immoral war. I applaud their deaths. They were invaders, obviously.

----------


## Ender

> Robert Beglarian


I'd +rep you again, if I could.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> If you're not American you have no say in the matter. We fought the revolution because we didn't want other people telling us what to do.


You Americans had helped from the French... During the revolution  but its nice to see how your deflecting the Japanese matter. I also remember seeing a old image in it shows a map of Japan in it shows Japan being to the Americans as a means as access to Asia.

----------


## mattniers

> Maurice Motamed



Iran Honors Its Fallen Jewish Soldiers

Iran is well-known for its stinging anti-Israeli rhetoric and refusal to recognize what it calls the "Zionist regime."

So,  it might have come as a surprise when officials in Tehran unveiled a  monument honoring Iranian-Jewish soldiers who died in action during the  Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s.

Iranian  officials marked the opening of the memorial on December 15 with a  public ceremony, part of which was held at the gravesites of the fallen  soldiers.


Photos of the ceremony published  by Iran's IRNA news agency showed Iranian officials and members of the  Jewish community praying together and placing wreaths on the graves of  the soldiers, who were hailed as "martyrs."

Iran  has the Middle East's second-largest population of Jews, with around  25,000 living there today, mostly in Tehran, Isfahan, and the southern  city of Shiraz. Before a mass exodus following the 1979 Islamic  Revolution, Jews numbered over 100,000 in the country.

There  are dozens of active synagogues across Iran that attract large  gatherings and Jews, like some other minorities, are guaranteed a fixed  number of seats in parliament. But Iranian Jews must also swear  allegiance to the supreme leader and accept the state religion.

Scott  Lucas, an Iran specialist at Birmingham University in Britain and  editor of the EA World View website, says the monument allows the  Iranian government to uphold its claims that it accepts the country's  religious and ethnic minorities, despite being a strictly Shi'ite Islam  country.
"The  Iranian regime has always upheld the idea that it has this Jewish  community unlike Arab states," he says. "They want to show that Iran is  multireligious."

Iranian officials have made a clear separation between Iranian Jews and Israel, however.
Mohammad  Hassan Aboutorabi-Fard, the vice speaker of the Iranian parliament,  made that distinction during a speech at the opening ceremony of the  memorial.

"The  explicit stances of the Jewish community in supporting the Islamic  republic's establishment and their obedience to the supreme leader of  the [Islamic] Revolution demonstrate the bonds that originate from the  teachings of divine religions," he was quoted as saying by Iran's Tasnim  news agency.

But then he went on to condemn the "violent and inhumane" policies of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

President  Hassan Rohani has exercised a more open policy toward Israel that is in  contrast to his predecessor, Mahmud Ahmadinejad, who gained a reputation as an enemy of Israel after  questioning the Holocaust and predicting that what he commonly called  the "Zionist" state would not survive. He and others within Iran's  leadership also frequently denied the right of Israel to exist.
Rohani  has steered clear of such rhetoric, although other officials in his  administration have shown less restraint in their criticism of Israel.

"Rohani  wants to sell a much more engaged approach not only with Iran's  friends, but also its enemies," says Lucas. "So, he has used much more  moderate language."

----------


## devil21

> We STOLE it, Captain Barbosa, with lies & the MIC.


"We" are merely the tools of bigger players with bigger agendas.  This isn't about American dominance.  Americans (tax slaves) and the military are just tools.  It's important to remember that.

----------


## Todd

Nobody is saying Iran is some great bastion of religious freedom, but they have representation in their parliament from both their Christian Armenian heritage and Jewish community, which is more than Israel can say for Palestinians and Saudi can say for their $#@!ty government.

----------


## mattniers

*Lessons from the Iran-Iraq War: Iranian Minorities Won’t Lead Transformative Change*Before joining the Trump administration, National Security Advisor John Bolton penned an article on how to pull out of the Iran nuclear agreement. In it, he also advocated helping ethnic minorities in Iran. Like previous American administrations, the Trump Administration seeks regime change in Tehran. And like the current White House, but more fervently, the Washington establishment assumes Iranian minorities will join in what is being called in certain circles “transformative change.”


Recent nationwide demonstrations in Iran—over the state of the economy, Tehran’s regional activities, corruption, and general disenchantment with the Islamic government—are strengthening the Trump administration’s hopes. But attempts to catalyze religious or ethnic minority protests as a means to transform the Islamic Republic have been a failed US policy for almost as long as the theocracy has existed. This time will be no different. History demonstrates ethnic and religious minorities will neither spur nor lead regime change.

Minorities have worked for more than a century to be incorporated into the modern Iranian nation-state. Most notably, Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians—with the Shia majority—sought to form a constitutional monarchy in 1905. These groups argued for formal inclusion in a new constitution. After all, they, too, fought and bled for the cause of a free and democratic Iran—and are protected religious classes in Islam.


Similarly, minority representatives and their supporters argued that these communities have lived on the lands for millennia—long pre-dating Islam—and have, since ancient times, constituted its history and culture as well as political and economic institutions. The Shia majority agreed and incorporated the political and civil rights of these communities in the 1906 Constitution.


Under the Pahlavi dynasty, Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah sought to reconstruct and resurrect Iran. They envisioned an Iran that combined the glories of pre-Islamic Persia with modern technologies and institutional practices. This meant settling nomadic tribes and transferring the power of provincial sheikhs and tribal leaders to Tehran. It also meant doing what most countries at the time did to assimilate their populations: programming a uniform school curriculum, eliminating publications and news in non-Persian languages, instituting mandatory military service, and carrying out other acts that either imposed the state’s ideology on the populace or encouraged its compliance. These actions caused riots, rebellions, and secessionist movements on the northern and southern borders of Iran.


Before, during, and after World War II, the Soviet Union and Britain sponsored and supported these events in Iran. Both countries used minority discontent to colonize areas rich in natural resources such as oil. In turn, per the research of this academic, the entire Iranian political spectrum increasingly viewed each minority group as a possible “fifth column,” a term that became entrenched through use by the Allied Forces and particularly the American press’ description of the German presence in Iran. After World War II, Iranian publications increasingly mentioned a suspected collaborator’s ethnicity or religion. Distrust of these groups grew and exacerbated existing tensions. It’s this history that American advocates of regime change mistakenly believe will now erupt again with US support.


Why mistakenly? To begin, the Pahlavi state and minority communities increasingly formed a dialogical relationship after monarchical power was consolidated and the security state established in the 1950s. With the borders secured, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi focused on producing his vision of Iran. He considered ethno-religious groups to be Iranian so long as they adhered to his vision. Those who supported Iran in the first half of the century became even more devout to the religion of the secular nation-state. More minorities supported the Pahlavi State because it rewarded all loyal subjects. Eventually, memories of the fifth column minorities receded as communal participation swelled.


As Iran grew more powerful under the Pahlavis, so did its opposition. For four decades, the Pahlavi state and its opposition battled over distinct visions of a future Iran. Everyone—active and non-active participants—experienced this conflict. Because minorities were integral to Iranian society, they were sought after as both partisans for and against the state.
By 1979, communal groups were no different from the monarchists, liberals, left, Khomeinists and other major groups seeking to bring about their idealized Iran. The conflict over contending visions of Iran had engendered a sense of “Iran” as the sacred above other motivators including self-interest. The Pahlavi period produced an allegiance to Iran. As a result, all communities—including ethnic and religious minorities—became willing to sacrifice for Iran.


Not surprisingly, when Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein invaded in 1980, ethnic and religious communities helped make up the responding Iranian military forces. Most research largely overlooks reasons for minority participation.


Responding to the Iraqi invasion, minority group representatives immediately asserted their communities’ desire to defend their country. Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian communities not only offered their support in national newspapers like Kayhan, but also took action. Communal groups volunteered to defend Iran. Archives examined by this academic show that at the start of the Iran-Iraq War these communities, like the Islamic Republic, generally viewed the invasion as a US-supported aggression to destroy Iran.

Iranian religious communities largely defended the land of Iran when the war was defensive in nature, according to this academic’s research. Christian Armenians essentially saved the country at the start of the Iran-Iraq War. Zoroastrians went to the front lines. Arab Ahwazis neither revolted nor fought for Saddam Hussein’s forces; they did not form the fifth column Saddam and others expected to help defeat Iran. Jews also served in defensive war efforts. Baha’is, despite a long history of Iranian government and clerical persecution, volunteered. Individuals from political minority groups outlawed by the Islamic Republic also joined war efforts at the beginning.


This August marks thirty years since the end of the Iran-Iraq War. Iranians think differently about the war now than during the 1980s. For the Iranian people, the war shaped their society, cemented the formation and empowerment of the Islamic Republic, and solidified distrust of the US and the international community. Despite antagonistic views of the Islamic Republic itself, ethnic, religious, and political minorities who participated in that war—like the larger society in which they live—generally have no regrets about having done so. They remain nationalists of the land of Iran.


For these reasons, when the Bush Administration significantly contemplated invading Iran for a three-year period during 2004 to 2007, even minority groups vehemently protested. Iranians argued they had the right to peaceful nuclear development, sought to help the US in the war against Al-Qaeda, and didn’t want the “transition to democracy” forced upon Iraq. The most ardent leftists and ethno-religious minorities spoke heatedly about America’s historical military belligerence interfering with the right of Iranians to choose their government. This included Azeris and Armenians, who have the ability to leave Iran for states formed from the former Soviet Union. Audio-visual materials aimed to revive and solidify Iranian nationalism buoyed anger at the US and the international community believed to support and condone American interventionalist behavior.


Taken together, no significant historical and current evidence supports the Trump administration’s policies specifically aimed at employing Iranian minorities against the Islamic Republic. Like generations before them, these minority groups are tired of being used by one side and scapegoated by the other. The constant focus on minorities only serves to justify the Islamic Republic’s suspicion of them. These communities are the ones who pay for America’s obsession with Iran and its concomitant policy errors.
That these Iranians want a better life and future for their country doesn’t make them supporters of regime change. It means minorities are also nationalists and won’t lead any potential regime change plans.

----------


## fcreature

> Nice staged celebrating


Almost like the contrived embassy "attacks"...

The deepstate is playing some funny games here.

----------


## teenlibert_1776

yeah ik

----------


## devil21

> Almost like the contrived embassy "attacks"...
> 
> The deepstate is playing some funny games here.


You and I don't usually agree on much but I definitely agree there's a whole lot more to all of this than what we're being led to believe.

----------


## susano

> I'm laughing at the liberals that are apologizing to Iran and crying impeachment or unconstitutional!
> 
> If one is upset about Trump killing this POS; but not upset about Obama bombing weddings or assassinating an American teenager then you are a POS as well.
> This isn't going to lead to any $#@!ing WW3, that's just the usual hyperbolic exclamations by partisan dumbasses.
> 
> I don't really like that Trump did this without congressional approval, but congress abdicated that power decades ago.  One can't go whining about it being used now without first impeaching all the presidents before him that did the same damn thing.   
> 
> Judging Trumps actions on this just through the lens of what other presidents have done (not a constitutional conservative lens), then one would have to say "Good Job Trump."  It wasn't like this Soleimani $#@! was flying into Baghdad on a peacekeeping mission; he was there to stir $#@! up.
> 
> *note, if you were anti-Bush doing this $#@! and anti-Obama doing this $#@!, then you still have the right to be upset about Trump doing this $#@!. by all means, carry on.


At the risk of repeating myself (and not to anyone in particular)... congress authorized the invasion of Iraq. Trump is the commander in chief so constitutionally authorized to order the attack. Any griping to the contrary (which Democraps are already doing) are just hot air.

I oppose the attacks and killings because Hezbollah and Iran are not a threat to the US. This was a a Zionist/neocon operation, quite obviously, and Trump was their willing fool. This not only worsens the situation over there but definitely could lead to a serious escalation in the Iraq war and even start that war with Iran that Israel wants so badly for the US to carry out. This general wasn't just some soldier.

----------


## Warlord

The celebrations like when they were throwing flowers at tanks during the 'liberation' and when Bush declared' 'mission accomplished'

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The celebrations like when they were throwing flowers at tanks during the 'liberation' and when Bush declared' 'mission accomplished'


Exactly and it this admin wants to take people and its own supporters for fools? I thought hero trump boy was anti war no? either that or he has being completely taken over By NeoCons...

----------


## susano

> I don't want us there, but the reality is we are there.  Focus on reality, not some utopian libertarian society that will never exist.  When American's are threatened or killed, I want decisive action.


This began with a missile strike on a US base where a civilian contractor was killed and nobody who was responsible for it. For all we know, it was Israelis. How does that justify the attack on Hezbollah (far away, I might add) and the killing of the general and others? It doesn't.

----------


## Todd

more sanity about Iraq and Iran.   

https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/s...04935208243200

----------


## susano

> ...


Useful info and really helps in showing the situation there. I was struck by the young ages of the protestors and knowing that nearly their entire lives have been in the chaos created since 2003. Hearing that term "social justice" mentioned was somewhat concerning because that makes them ripe for Soros meddling.

----------


## DaninPA

> ...Americans were not and are not fair game for Iran in Iraq.


Itd be a lot harder to be fair game if Americans werent there.

----------


## susano

> According to the Shia religion it does.


You're just pulling that out of your ass and Iraq, unlike Iran, is not a theocracy, anyway.

It's great that Hezbollah has fought ISIS, Al Nusra/Al Qaeda and other radical freaks but that doesn't make Iran some beloved overlord. They've been useful in this fight but Syrians would never want to live under their theocracy, either.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Clinton also launched a major Iraq airstrike during impeachment process
> https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...achment-2020-1


IIRC, Clinton also started the war on Serbia when Lewinsky affair was blowing up.




> This began with a missile strike on a US base where a civilian contractor was killed and nobody who was responsible for it. For all we know, it was Israelis. How does that justify the attack on Hezbollah (far away, I might add) and the killing of the general and others? It doesn't.


Remember when they claimed that Assad used chemical weapons in Syria (more than once)?
Remember when they claimed that Turkey had attacked US forces in Syria?
Remember when they claimed that Iran had attacked a base and killed a US contractor?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It’d be a lot harder to be “fair game” if Americans weren’t there.


I agree but until we leave we can't just let Ira come in and kill them.

----------


## nikcers

> It’d be a lot harder to be “fair game” if Americans weren’t there.


We have been in Iraq for 18 years. This isn't Iran's first rodeo. They have been interfering and meddling in Iraq for too long. Maybe if we had a better president before we would of had real diplomacy. Instead we have been doing proxy wars and letting Iran get stronger. If there is to be no diplomacy and only fake diplomacy than what is the point? Pretending like this all happened under Trump is stupid but if they think Trump is going to let them get away with it they will learn soon enough if they haven't learned already that Trump is a different kind of president.

----------


## susano

> Anyone who says that killing Soleimani is a good thing is essentially a supporter of ISIS.


Just stop it. Being glad that Hezbollah has fought ISIS doesn't equate to Iran is great. Life is not black and white. You're also not taking into account that the Syrian Army, Russians and Kurds have fought against ISIS. They all share a mutual interest in that but still have their own agendas.

----------


## susano

> Thats what the deputy commander of the IRGC said. LOL


Link?


WTF is with you, anyway? Nobody here has said that Iraq belongs to Iran but you seem to think it belongs the US because it was invaded. The US didn't colonize Iraq, it just destroyed it.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Anybody that doesn't support this war is commie scum.


 *SimmerDown* 
 
 			  				Banned  			

I hope somebody realizes this was humor?

----------


## nikcers

> *SimmerDown* 
>  
>  			  				Banned  			
> 
> I hope somebody realizes this was humor?


Thats what happens when you have blasphemy laws like Iran does. No wonder RPF is so sympathetic to Iran.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Thats what happens when you have blasphemy laws like Iran does. No wonder RPF is so sympathetic to Iran.


I like how all the trolls saying our soldiers deserved to die aren't banned.

If any conservatives come here we want to give them the impression that Ron Paul and Rand support killing American soldiers.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Or cyberattacks. Maybe the regime will target RPF


Probably by sending trolls to say our soldiers deserve to be killed.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> No.  
> 
> You don't seem to understand blowback.  Trump may have just killed millions by killing one.


Or he might have killed millions by not killing one terrorist who has killed many Americans already and who was trying to provoke a major war.

2:15: We took action last night to stop a war, we did not take action to start a war.

----------


## nikcers

> I like how all the trolls saying our soldiers deserved to die aren't banned.
> 
> If any conservatives come here we want to give them the impression that Ron Paul and Rand support killing American soldiers.


Sarcasm is a bannable offense you should edit that post.

----------


## susano

> Both of you are saying Soleimani fought against ISIS.  Is this info sourced online somewhere?


Hezbollah (Lebanon) is aligned with Iran and receives material and leadership support form them. When things heated up with crazed jihadists in Syria, Hezbollah (right next door) entered the fight to protect Lebanon and there were Iranian military advisers there, as well. From there it spread to Iraq, as ISIS did. I don't think the Russians have gotten involved in Iraq, though they've been essential in Syria. The Kurds extend from Iran to Turkey and have fought ISIS all over. Without Iran, I doubt ISIS could have been run out of Iraq and, I would think, there's a great danger of them coming back from the dead because they aren't really dead but just temporarily defeated.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sarcasm is a bannable offense you should edit that post.


I used the sarcasm tag so I should be safe.

But anyone expressing sarcasm without properly labeling it will be perma-banned it seems.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It IS a war. In Iraq. Has been since the US invaded. It may ebb and flow but it's a war, nevertheless.


We didn't invade Iran.
If this is a war then Iran started it and Trump is just defending our troops from an aggressor.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I'm not making excuses for Iran. I'm telling it like it is. When any country decides to play empire, anyone else can and might attack them and are are no more out of line than the US is who never should have invaded Iraq in the first place.


So you are saying that Iran IS JUST AS out of line as the US?

----------


## nikcers

> Hezbollah (Lebanon) is aligned with Iran and receives material and leadership support form them. When things heated up with crazed jihadists in Syria, Hezbollah (right next door) entered the fight to protect Lebanon and there were Iranian military advisers there, as well. From there it spread to Iraq, as ISIS did. I don't think the Russians have gotten involved in Iraq, though they've been essential in Syria. The Kurds extend from Iran to Turkey and have fought ISIS all over. Without Iran, I doubt ISIS could have been run out of Iraq and, I would think, there's a great danger of them coming back from the dead because they aren't really dead but just temporarily defeated.


Maybe if Michelle Obama runs for president we can make ISIS great again.

----------


## tommyrp12

New strike.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/militar...ttack-n1110081


They aren't going to Iraq.



> The brigade will deploy to Kuwait


It is possible to send reinforcements to cover a withdrawal.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> That's too irrational to bother debating.
> 
> 
> Let me know when every other country apologizes to every other country they ever fought with.
> 
> We will come home and Trump just kept us from being backed into a new war.





> Let me know when every other country apologizes to every other country they ever fought with.


Germany has for WWs.





> We will come home


I hate to state the facts but probably in body bags if Trump pushes the escalation further.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Iran was not defending themselves from anything.


US was not being attacked nor at war with Iran when Trump decided to kill their top general.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> One things for sure, the Neocons are all happy that this happened.  They've been wanting a war with Iran for years and perhaps they might end up getting their wish.


They are not happy, they wanted The guy to pull off some even bigger attack on US forces that they could use to make Trump invade Iran.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> They aren't going to Iraq.
> 
> 
> It is possible to send reinforcements to cover a withdrawal.


You do know that that brigade which is going in Kuwait will be deployed in Iraq right? Kuwait is not far from Iraq.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> *They aren't going to Iraq.*
> 
> 
> It is possible to send reinforcements to cover a withdrawal.





> The immediate response force *will be spread throughout the region, with some soldiers in Iraq and others in Kuwait.*


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/militar...ttack-n1110081

----------


## Swordsmyth

> US was not being attacked nor at war with Iran when Trump decided to kill their top general.


He had just arranged an assault on our embassy and was planning something bigger.

He has been killing Americans for many years, he was behind Benghazi.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> He had just arranged an assault on our embassy and was planning something bigger.
> 
> He has been killing Americans for many years,* he was behind Benghazi*.


You mean it WASN'T Clinton?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> He had just arranged an assault on our embassy and was planning something bigger.
> 
> He has been killing Americans for many years, he was behind Benghazi.





> He has been killing Americans for many years, *he was behind Benghazi*.


First you Trump supporters accused ISIS of being behind Benghazi and now you guys are accusing of Iran being behind it? GOOD LORD! you guys arent rational to think straight.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/militar...ttack-n1110081


A few perhaps.

But they aren't staying:




> and stay there for some 60 days


This could easily be a prelude to a withdrawal with reinforcements sent to make sure we aren't attacked during it so we don't get dragged into a war with Iran like Iran and the deepstate want.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> You mean it WASN'T Clinton?


First it was Jihadists then ISIS then Clinton and now Iran.......... The Heck?!

----------


## Zippyjuan

> A few perhaps.
> 
> But they aren't staying:
> 
> 
> 
> This could easily be a prelude to a withdrawal with reinforcements sent to make sure we aren't attacked during it so we don't get dragged into a war with Iran like Iran and the deepstate want.


No worries- Trump promised we would be out of the region soon- starting with leaving Syria in 30 days.  That was a year ago.  Maybe this time he means it?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> A few perhaps.
> 
> But they aren't staying:
> 
> 
> 
> This could easily be a prelude to a withdrawal with reinforcements sent to make sure we aren't attacked during it so we don't get dragged into a war with Iran like Iran and the deepstate want.







> But they aren't staying:


Its like how Trump claimed in days they be withdrawing from Syria right? the only withdrawing they did was move the whole forces in the Kurdish areas. And where the oil fields were....

----------


## susano

> My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??


Okay. So your whole shtick is sarcasm?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> First you Trump supporters accused ISIS of being behind Benghazi and now you guys are accusing of Iran being behind it? GOOD LORD! you guys arent rational to think straight.


ISIS wasn't behind it, they were receiving weapons from O'Bummer and Clinton.




> Suleymani has orchestrated attacks in everywhere from Lebanon to  Thailand. The US Department of Justice accuses him of trying to hire a  Mexican drug cartel to blow up the Saudi Ambassador to the United States  while he was in Washington, DC.
> 
>  My sources, meanwhile, say Suleymani was involved in an even more direct attack on the US — the killing of Ambassador Christopher Stevens in Benghazi, Libya.
> 
> 
> “In Libya, Iran wanted to block US influence, which they saw as a  threat,” the intelligence chief said. “They saw the uprising against  Khadafy — and the Arab Spring more generally — as an opportunity to  accomplish this.”
> *The Kidnapping* The CIA Annex in Benghazi housed an NSA listening post that secretly monitored communications of jihadi groups.
>  Late in the afternoon on Monday, July 30, 2012, the Annex ears picked  up chatter in Persian between a pair of operators from Quds Force.
>  The NSA translator brought an English transcript of their  conversation to the chief of base. He laughed when he read through it.  “It looks like our boys are on time,” he said.
> ...

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Okay. So your whole shtick is sarcasm?


You should see the crazies on ATS, they are completely bonkers there then here.

I am done respecting Trump supporters after this one, that is if they were actual Trump supporters to begin with.
 I am honestly not surprised why twitter is banning them.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You mean it WASN'T Clinton?


Clinton and O'Bummer let it happen, they didn't cause it.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> ISIS wasn't behind it, they were receiving weapons from O'Bummer and Clinton.


 Sure.................. using NYPost as a source.




> The Quds Force was using operatives recruited in Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Turkey and Egypt to finance, train and equip the radical group Ansar al-Sharia in Libya, careful to show their hand only to a select few.


Pure nonsense. Shall we ignore the Militia's which America backed in Libya and armed?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Clinton and O'Bummer let it happen, they didn't cause it.


So they didn't bomb enough people or send in enough military to another country?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> So they didn't bomb enough people or send in enough military to another country?


They should have sent forces to rescue our people.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> A few perhaps.
> 
> *But they aren't staying*:


Afghanistan was supposed to just be a temporary deal too- just until Bin Laden was caught.  Instead Iraq got added to the itinerary. Decade later we are still there in both countries.

----------


## mattniers

> In that way, yes, they've contributed to deaths and injuries of US personnel who should never have been there anyway. Iran is no more out of line than the US is.


Pure speculation. If Iran had a hand in killing US soldiers in Iraq (for which there is NO evidence), it would have been in 2004-05 when they supported the Mahdi Army.

Unlike the Sunni terrorists supported by Trump's buddies, the Saudis, the Mahdi Army wore military fatigues and fought US soldiers in straight up battles and didn't hide behind women and children, blowing up market places etc. US soldiers had respect for the Mahdi Army due to them fighting like actual soldiers defending their country and this is an exact quote from a buddy of mine who actually did fight in Karbala against the Mahdi Army.

----------


## AngryCanadian

1
This Obama admin who armed the Jihadists not Iran...



> to Libyan rebels from Qatar


2

America has being known to fund and arm Jihadist groups for decades ever since the cold war.. And your accusing IRAN of what America has being doing best for years... RIGHT..................

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Afghanistan was supposed to just be a temporary deal too- just until Bin Laden was caught.  Instead Iraq got added to the itinerary. Decade later we are still there.


And we the west are losing 18 years after.

----------


## Warlord

> Afghanistan was supposed to just be a temporary deal too- just until Bin Laden was caught.  Instead Iraq got added to the itinerary. Decade later we are still there in both countries.


Obama sent 100,000 troops to Afghanistan, remember that?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> They should have sent forces to rescue our people.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30155216




> *Benghazi consulate attack: Report clears US response*
> 
> A US investigation has found no wrongdoing by the Obama administration in responding to the deadly 2012 attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya.
> 
> The inquiry* by the Republican-run House Intelligence Committee* also said there was* no intelligence failure and no delay in sending a CIA rescue team*.
> 
> The Obama administration had been accused of mishandling its response.
> 
> Four Americans, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens, died in the raid carried out by Islamist militants.
> ...

----------


## Swordsmyth

> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30155216


LOL

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Obama sent 100,000 troops to Afghanistan, remember that?


Trump is going to remove all but 8,000 even if we don't get a peace deal and he almost has a peace deal and will remove them all.

----------


## tommyrp12

> That should teach them not to try to attack us in a way designed to force Trump's hand to start a war with Iran.
> Trump now needs to start getting us out.


They may have been planning attacks and that was the reason for the strikes, i'll buy that. That's different than forcing Trumps hand so he get's bad PR, i disagree. If we are being honest they didn't have to do anything if that was the goal, the MSN has that covered. 
A new war will ensure they stay longer not come home sooner. That would be nice if it happened though.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> He had just arranged an assault on our embassy* and was planning something bigger.*
> 
> He has been killing Americans for many years, he was behind Benghazi.


Pre- crime. Kill people for what they might do.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> *Trump is going to remove all but 8,000* even if we don't get a peace deal and he almost has a peace deal and will remove them all.


Trump also said he would withdraw all the troops from Syria by January, 2019.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> They may have been planning attacks and that was the reason for the strikes, i'll buy that. That's different than forcing Trumps hand so he get's bad PR, i disagree. If we are being honest they didn't have to do anything if that was the goal, the MSN has that covered. 
> A new war will ensure they stay longer not come home sooner. That would be nice if it happened though.


The MSM and the Neocons in the Senate need ammunition to blackmail trump and manipulate public opinion.

They had planned to call the embassy attack "Trump's Benghazi" and some of the left even jumped the gun and started calling it that before he turned it around by sending reinforcements.

If Iran had succeeded at killing a large number of Americans the hue and cry that no response less than all out war was good enough would have been deafening.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Pre- crime. Kill people for what they might do.


Or for what they already did many times over and stop them from what they were trying to do.

----------


## susano

> Yep. Trillions of dollars, Americans that fought in the Iraq war died or have permanent psychological and physiological problems. We paid both blood and treasure for Iraq. Iran can't have it for free. Americans voted overwhelmingly for the guy who ran on that platform. They could of voted for regime change creator of ISIS queen or Rand Paul. They voted for the guy who literally said to the victor goes the spoils, take the oil.


All, of these pages of aggravation to realize you're being sarcastic. *sigh* A lot gets lost in text.


Anyway, I don't think I've ever played grammar police but this is really bugging and it's for your own good. When you say "should of", "could of", etc, it should be "should _have_" or "could _have_". lol, so sorry, but it drives me up the wall. Consider it my gift to you and your punishment for screwing with our heads.

----------


## Zippyjuan



----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I agree, I'm not saying it was just PR, I'm saying it was to stop a threat that was going to kill Americans and be used to back him into a war or looking "weak", many more Americans would be killed in a war.


That's an awfully conveniently simplistic and frankly retarded way of viewing this situation.

What is more likely is the end of the petrodollar as well as dollar hegemony and a united coalition of fighters who will, for decades, asymmetrically attack the United States into its bankruptcy.

Trump is a puppet and a war criminal.

You are and will be less free because of him.

----------


## nikcers

> You Trump supporters are showing how pathetic you guys are now with this narrative.
>  You are Warhawks and NeoCons....DEAL WITH IT.


If you aren't American or Iranian I suggest staying out of this. Last time someone stuck their nose where it didn't belong they got labeled a FTO and hellfire rained down on them from the sky.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> That's an awfully conveniently simplistic and frankly retarded way of viewing this situation.
> 
> What is more likely is the end of the petrodollar as well as dollar hegemony and a united coalition of fighters who will, for decades, asymmetrically attack the United States into its bankruptcy.
> 
> Trump is a puppet and a war criminal.
> 
> You are and will be less free because of him.


LOL

----------


## AngryCanadian

> If you aren't American or Iranian I suggest staying out of this. Last time someone stuck their nose where it didn't belong they got labeled a FTO and hellfire rained down on them from the sky.


*If you aren't American or Iranian I suggest staying out of this*

Maybe you guys should stay  out of the middle east for once! if you arent going to learn well history is going to TEACH YA again!

----------


## AngryCanadian

> That's an awfully conveniently simplistic and frankly retarded way of viewing this situation.
> 
> What is more likely is the end of the petrodollar as well as dollar hegemony and a united coalition of fighters who will, for decades, asymmetrically attack the United States into its bankruptcy.
> 
> Trump is a puppet and a war criminal.
> 
> You are and will be less free because of him.


don't bother NEOCONS dont listen to reason or logic.

----------


## nikcers

> *If you aren't American or Iranian I suggest staying out of this*
> 
> Maybe you guys should stay  out of the middle east for once! if you arent going to learn well history is going to TEACH YA again!


We paid good money for Iraq why would you give up such prime real estate. I think Trump should build a big beautiful tower there.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> *We paid good money for Iraq* why would you give up such prime real estate. I think Trump should build a big beautiful tower there.


Don't forget  hundreds of thousands of lives and limbs also as cost of this forever war besides 'good money'.  

Blood and treasure were costs of this dumb blunder of globalist neocons some  of whom seem to have relocated from DiscreditedVille to GOPA-ville.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> LOL




LOL

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> We paid good money for Iraq why would you give up such prime real estate. I think Trump should build a big beautiful tower there.

----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## vita3

Iraqi Parliament will most likely vote the United States OUT of Iraq this weekend 

Lets hope this happens & Trump complies....

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Iraqi Parliament will most likely vote the United States OUT of Iraq this weekend 
> 
> Let’s hope this happens & Trump complies....


Let's pray it does and that that was the plan.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Iraqi Parliament will most likely vote the United States OUT of Iraq this weekend 
> 
> Let’s hope this happens & Trump complies....


They will not give up the embassy and it will be Iraq 3.0

John Bolton couldn't have did it better.

----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## vita3

I have no faith that outcome will be positive for non-interventionist   (but there looks to be a path out with Iraqi vote)

Read that many US oil folks flees Iraq today...wonder what actual number is?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> *SAVAK*
> 
> *Operations*
> 
> During the height of its power, SAVAK had virtually unlimited powers. It operated its own detention centers, like Evin Prison. In addition to domestic security the service's tasks extended to the surveillance of Iranians abroad, notably in the United States, France, and the United Kingdom, and especially students on government stipends. *The agency also closely collaborated with the American CIA by sending their agents to an air force base in New York to share and discuss interrogation tactics*.[21]
> 
> Teymur Bakhtiar was assassinated by SAVAK agents in 1970, and Mansur Rafizadeh, SAVAK's United States director during the 1970s, reported that General Nassiri's phone was tapped. Mansur Rafizadeh later published his life as a SAVAK man and detailed the human rights violations of the Shah in his book Witness: From the Shah to the Secret Arms Deal: An Insider's Account of U.S. Involvement in Iran. Mansur Rafizadeh was suspected to have been a double agent also working for the CIA. According to Polish author Ryszard Kapuściński, *SAVAK was responsible for Censorship of press, books and films.[22] Interrogation and often torture of prisoners Surveillance of political opponents.*


*Victims*




> Sources disagree over how many victims SAVAK had and how inhumane its techniques were. Writing at the time of the Shah's overthrow, TIME magazine described SAVAK as having "long been Iran's most hated and feared institution" which had "tortured and murdered thousands of the Shah's opponents."[23] The Federation of American Scientists also found it guilty of "the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners" and symbolizing "the Shah's rule from 1963-79." *The FAS list of SAVAK torture methods included "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails." [24]*


..

----------


## AngryCanadian

> We paid good money for Iraq why would you give up such prime real estate. I think Trump should build a big beautiful tower there.


The Iraqis didnt want you then nor do they want you guys now in Iraq... Just wait and Watch for history to TEACH YOU A LESSON.

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> America with groups like NED on the ground had being known for decades to fund and train such protests and to make them happen. Example why arent there any free and democratic protests agaisnt the regime state in Saudi Arabia yet?
> 
> 
> So those missiles attacks killed an American mercenary? what were American mercenaries doing in Northern Iraq?


I would more info on this "contractor" which we know was probably a mercenary & why the Saudi's haven't stepped up.

Thanks for posting, what is NED? pardon my ignorance.

----------


## AngryCanadian

America the Empire.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I would more info on this "contractor" which we know was probably a mercenary & why the Saudi's haven't stepped up.
> 
> Thanks for posting, what is NED? pardon my ignorance.


NED a movement which funds, trains protests. And pushes for regime change.

The protests were long planned in Iran.





> For the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), the overthrow of the regime has always been the key objective and it explicitly supports sanctions and war to achieve it. (In the first Gulf War, it famously sided with Saddam Hussein and supported his attacks on Iran, including active participation in military operations). The Mujahedin’s backing for the Iran Tribunal is actually disputed by the tribunal, yet the involvement of people with close MEK links seems to tell a different story. Hardly surprising: after all, the US government has recently announced that it has removed the Mujahedin from its list of terrorist organisations.Leila Ghalehbani (who is featured in a video on the tribunal’s front page) is the sister of a number of Mujahedin prisoners who were killed in 1988. Iraj Mesdaghi, a survivor of the massacre, describes himself as “a former member” of the organisation. The website of the pro-Mujahedin organisation, Human Rights and Democracy for Iran, has just published a very sympathetic interview with Payam Akhavan, in which he is sympathetically prompted to tell readers how he feels about being “slandered” by the British leftwing paper, Weekly Worker, in its critical coverage of the IT. [vi]


NED funded and trained some members of the Arab spring. This is something that NeoCons in here refuse to accpet to believe.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Everybody sing along! Fox News is all in, with a couple of notable exceptions...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9kumiroe6M

----------


## susano

> So you are saying that Iran IS JUST AS out of line as the US?


Not quite as much but yeah. Iran has a security interest just as Russia does with Ukraine and just as the US would if, for instance, China invaded Mexico. Sphere of influence matters. Iran has exceeded it's legitimate interests, though, just as the US has (which had none there, at all).

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> U.S. Senator Ben Sasse, a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, issued the following statement regarding an operation that killed Iranian General and terrorist Qassem Soleimani. 
> 
> "This is very simple: General Soleimani is dead because he was an evil bastard who murdered Americans. The President made the brave and right call, and Americans should be proud of our servicemembers who got the job done. Tehran is on edge - the mullahs have already slaughtered at least a thousand innocent Iranians - and before they lash out further they should know that the U.S. military can bring any and all of these IRGC butchers to their knees."


This is very simple: Ben Sasse has been nothing but a neoconservative plant since day one. A fake. A liar.

----------


## susano

> New strike.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sigh. 
> 
> _They do admit to being allys with groups that commit acts of terror in the middle east. Show me a source that refutes this._
> 
> ^^^THAT is what I was replying to. Who are these "terrorists" that Hezbollah/Iran have allied with? They have allied with Syrian and Iraqi military in fighting the likes of ISIS, Al Nusra/Al Qaeda, et al. THOSE are the terrorists, not the people fighting against them. To claim that people defending themselves and their countries from jihadist insurgents is to the take the line of the very people who are responsible for funding and arming these head chopping freaks!


The Middle East is full of terrorists, some of them do function as defenders of their home territory but then commit terror acts against their rivals in the region.
They've been doing it to eachother for over a thousand years.

We need to just leave because there are NO "good guys" over there.

----------


## nikcers

> Sigh. 
> 
> _They do admit to being allys with groups that commit acts of terror in the middle east. Show me a source that refutes this._
> 
> ^^^THAT is what I was replying to. Who are these "terrorists" that Hezbollah/Iran have allied with? They have allied with Syrian and Iraqi military in fighting the likes of ISIS, Al Nusra/Al Qaeda, et al. THOSE are the terrorists, not the people fighting against them. To claim that people defending themselves and their countries from jihadist insurgents is to the take the line of the very people who are responsible for funding and arming these head chopping freaks!


Iran funds the IRGC which is a foreign terrorist organization.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The Real Reason to Intervene in Syria
> Cutting Iran's link to the Mediterranean Sea is a strategic prize worth the risk.
> By James P. *Rubin* | June 4, 2012, 3:50 PM 
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/06/04...vene-in-syria/
> 
> 
> Clinton admin State Dept and husband of NWO war whore, Christianne Amanpour.


Yup in the artlice they state the real reason for why all of this is happening now in the middle east and with the African migrants being send to Europe.





> Cutting Iran's link to the *Mediterranean Sea is a strategic prize worth* the risk.


They claim they were doing this regime change to stop a Shia Islamic Jihad, yet somehow they are ok with a Sunni Radical one?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Iran funds the IRGC which is a foreign terrorist organization.


You do realize Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is Iran's branch of the Iranian Armed Forces, right? how are the Iranian armed forces branded terrorists again?

China and Russia might as well just brand America's  US marines corps as a foreign terrorist organization as well then.

----------


## susano

> He had just arranged an assault on our embassy and was planning something bigger.
> 
> He has been killing Americans for many years, he was behind Benghazi.


Where on earth are you getting that from? Al Qaeda operatives are the factor in Libya, as well as ISIS, now, because Hillary Clinton.

----------


## Warlord

Hannity is rolling out all the Neocons and doing a victory lap. Lindsey Graham, Karl Rove and so on.

'the terrorist is dead.  we're much safer'

----------


## nikcers

> You do realize Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is Iran's branch of the Iranian Armed Forces, right? how are the Iranian armed forces branded terrorists again?
> 
> China and Russia might as well just brand America's  US marines corps as a foreign terrorist organization as well then.


Hezbollah is an Iranian-sponsored, internationally sanctioned terrorist group with an anti-Israel and anti-U.S. agenda

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Where on earth are you getting that from? Al Qaeda operatives are the factor in Libya, as well as ISIS, now, because Hillary Clinton.


I posted an article about it.
The guy that got killed was running guns to Iran's enemies, the people he was supplying has no reason to kill him.

----------


## susano

> First you Trump supporters accused ISIS of being behind Benghazi and now you guys are accusing of Iran being behind it? GOOD LORD! you guys arent rational to think straight.


Don't lump us together. I voted for Trump and I know Iran had nothing to do with Benghazi.

----------


## Swordsmyth

This is what the deepstate wanted and DIDN'T get from Trump:

*Fox News Guest Calls For Bombing Iran Because ‘They Invaded U.S. Sovereign Soil’ In Iraq*

----------


## susano

> A few perhaps.
> 
> But they aren't staying:
> 
> 
> 
> This could easily be a prelude to a withdrawal with reinforcements sent to make sure we aren't attacked during it so we don't get dragged into a war with Iran like Iran and the deepstate want.



Avoid that magical thinking, SS. We don't know what's going to happen.

----------


## susano

> First it was Jihadists then ISIS then Clinton and now Iran.......... The Heck?!


That ****, Chris Stevens, was running weapons to jihadists, in Syria, with the help of Libyan Al Qaeda and he paid the price.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> This is what the deepstate wanted and DIDN'T get from Trump:
> 
> *Fox News Guest Calls For Bombing Iran Because ‘They Invaded U.S. Sovereign Soil’ In Iraq*


I hope Trump does get to Bomb Iran teaches you NeoCons what war is really like. Americans are going to force Turkey to push one million more migrants into Europe.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I hope Trump does get to Bomb Iran teaches you NeoCons what war is really like. Americans are going to force Turkey to push one million more migrants into Europe.


LOL

Turkey wants to push more migrants into Europe to destroy and conquer it.

And I'm glad to see that you openly expose that your hatred for America is greater than your concern for the Iranian people and all of the others who will be killed or have their lives destroyed.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Hezbollah is an Iranian-sponsored, internationally sanctioned terrorist group with an anti-Israel and anti-U.S. agenda


This is the same Hezbollah is an Iranian-sponsored group which had helped the Syrian forces fight agaisnt American/Saudi, Gulf State proxy Jihadists, of course i wasn't surprised when they branded Hezbollah as a terrorist group.

It shows how you Americans are getting desperate in the region and branding groups who are fighting your own proxies in the region is another example of that.




> with an anti-Israel and anti-U.S. agenda


Whats the US agenda in that region again? FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY?  don't make me laugh. Its all about dominance and control of the regions and supplies of resources.

Which you dont want Iran to have nor to compete with Saudi Arabia. Having a puppet in Iran would be better for you so the Iranian puppet can easily bend over to its knees to the Sunni dominated middle east.

----------


## susano

> Clinton and O'Bummer let it happen, they didn't cause it.


Au contraire! Obama turned his back and said it was "Hillary's deal" and she was in collusion with Sarkozy. The British were also involved and had special forces sneaking around. It was the US who gave the gps coordinates for Gaddafi's satellite phone and tipped off his Al Qaeda killers who ambushed him. Hillary wasn't kidding with, "We came, we saw, he died".

----------


## AngryCanadian

> LOL
> 
> Turkey wants to push more migrants into Europe to destroy and conquer it.
> 
> And I'm glad to see that you openly expose that your hatred for America is greater than your concern for the Iranian people and all of the others who will be killed or have their lives destroyed.


I don't have any hatred towards anyone NeoCon i am just saying because clearly some of you Trump supporters in who pretend to be anti war dont seem to learn from HISTORY!

----------


## AngryCanadian

> LOL
> 
> Turkey wants to push more migrants into Europe to destroy and conquer it.
> 
> And I'm glad to see that you openly expose that your hatred for America is greater than your concern for the Iranian people and all of the others who will be killed or have their lives destroyed.





> And I'm glad to see that you openly expose that your hatred for America


I am also happy to see this event in Iraq is slowly exposing you even more as a NeoCon and Interventionist. When i said i am hoping Trump does bomb Iran i meant it in a historical sense because NeoCons dont see what wrong your beloved MANCHILD did in Iraq.

----------


## angelatc

> The US and the Brits overthrew the elected govt of Iran, installed the Shah as a puppet, who was brutal to all Iranian dissenters which led to the backlash of of the Islamic revolution. The US backed Saddam Hussein in a war against iran in which hundreds of thousands were killed, including with chemical weapons. Then the US killed their puppet, Saddam. The Iranians were/are not about to thank the US for anything.


I've been reading today, trying to get up to speed on who this guy was.  This 2013 article called "The Shadow Commander" is a fascinating read. 

Here's a gem:




> n the chaotic days after the attacks of September 11th, Ryan Crocker, then a senior State Department official, flew discreetly to Geneva to meet a group of Iranian diplomats. “I’d fly out on a Friday and then back on Sunday, so nobody in the office knew where I’d been,” Crocker told me. “We’d stay up all night in those meetings.” It seemed clear to Crocker that the Iranians were answering to Suleimani, whom they referred to as “Haji Qassem,” and that they were eager to help the United States destroy their mutual enemy, the Taliban. Although the United States and Iran broke off diplomatic relations in 1980, after American diplomats in Tehran were taken hostage, Crocker wasn’t surprised to find that Suleimani was flexible. “You don’t live through eight years of brutal war without being pretty pragmatic,” he said. Sometimes Suleimani passed messages to Crocker, but he avoided putting anything in writing. “Haji Qassem’s way too smart for that,” Crocker said. “He’s not going to leave paper trails for the Americans.”
> 
> Before the bombing began, Crocker sensed that the Iranians were growing impatient with the Bush Administration, thinking that it was taking too long to attack the Taliban. At a meeting in early October, 2001, the lead Iranian negotiator stood up and slammed a sheaf of papers on the table. “If you guys don’t stop building these fairy-tale governments in the sky, and actually start doing some shooting on the ground, none of this is ever going to happen!” he shouted. “When you’re ready to talk about serious fighting, you know where to find me.” He stomped out of the room. “It was a great moment,” Crocker said.
> 
> The coöperation between the two countries lasted through the initial phase of the war. At one point, the lead negotiator handed Crocker a map detailing the disposition of Taliban forces. “Here’s our advice: hit them here first, and then hit them over here. And here’s the logic.” Stunned, Crocker asked, “Can I take notes?” The negotiator replied, “You can keep the map.” The flow of information went both ways. On one occasion, Crocker said, he gave his counterparts the location of an Al Qaeda facilitator living in the eastern city of Mashhad. The Iranians detained him and brought him to Afghanistan’s new leaders, who, Crocker believes, turned him over to the U.S. The negotiator told Crocker, “Haji Qassem is very pleased with our coöperation.”
> 
> The good will didn’t last. In January, 2002, Crocker, who was by then the deputy chief of the American Embassy in Kabul, was awakened one night by aides, who told him that President George W. Bush, in his State of the Union Address, had named Iran as part of an “Axis of Evil.” Like many senior diplomats, Crocker was caught off guard. He saw the negotiator the next day at the U.N. compound in Kabul, and he was furious. “You completely damaged me,” Crocker recalled him saying. “Suleimani is in a tearing rage. He feels compromised.” The negotiator told Crocker that, at great political risk, Suleimani had been contemplating a complete reëvaluation of the United States, saying, “Maybe it’s time to rethink our relationship with the Americans.” The Axis of Evil speech brought the meetings to an end. Reformers inside the government, who had advocated a rapprochement with the United States, were put on the defensive. Recalling that time, Crocker shook his head. “We were just that close,” he said. “One word in one speech changed history.”

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I am also happy to see this event in Iraq is slowly exposing you even more as a NeoCon and Interventionist.


LOL

Is that from me saying we should leave?

----------


## nikcers

> I am also happy to see this event in Iraq is slowly exposing you even more as a NeoCon and Interventionist.


I found the Iranian propaghanda agent. Next time you shouldn't be so obvious. Maybe pretend to be a hippie

----------


## angelatc

> This is the same Hezbollah is an Iranian-sponsored group which had helped the Syrian forces fight agaisnt American/Saudi, Gulf State proxy Jihadists, of course i wasn't surprised when they branded Hezbollah as a terrorist group.
> 
> t.


It's also the same Hezbollah that finally ran Israel out of Lebanon after a 16 year occupation.

----------


## bv3

> I found the Iranian propaghanda agent. Next time you shouldn't be so obvious. Maybe pretend to be a hippie


Fortunately, with this post, you have made it easy to find a deliberately disingenuous poster-poser.

----------


## nikcers

> This is the same Hezbollah is an Iranian-sponsored group which had helped the Syrian forces fight agaisnt American/Saudi, Gulf State proxy Jihadists, of course i wasn't surprised when they branded Hezbollah as a terrorist group.
> 
> It shows how you Americans are getting desperate in the region and branding groups who are fighting your own proxies in the region is another example of that.
> 
> 
> Whats the US agenda in that region again? FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY?  don't make me laugh. Its all about dominance and control of the regions and supplies of resources.
> 
> Which you dont want Iran to have nor to compete with Saudi Arabia. Having a puppet in Iran would be better for you so the Iranian puppet can easily bend over to its knees to the Sunni dominated middle east.


Hezbollahs goal is to make the United States bend its knees. Nice role reversal here. We aren't going to bow down to them.

----------


## susano

> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30155216


That's all bull$#@!. You think the western Satanists who planned the destruction of Libya, the murder of Gaddafi, the running of weapons to Syria for the overthrow of Assad, the theft of Libyan assets and the mass murder of innocent people are going to admit it?! FFS, man, use your head. Next you'll be posting the 9/11 Commission report if you believe that $#@!.

----------


## bv3

> Hezbollahs goal is to make the United States bend its knees. Nice role reversal here. We aren't going to bow down to them.


Bend the knee?  Hezbollah?  Dude, propaganda becomes totally ineffective when you start believing your own spew.  Why are you mongering war here?  I mean, are there not ample D and R forums for you to peddle on?

----------


## bv3

We aren't going to bow down to them?  How's the new Call of Duty?  You gettin' them bad guys? lmfao.

----------


## susano

> Pre- crime. Kill people for what they might do.


Well, that stuff does happen in war but, then, we're told this isn't a war so ...

Let's just cut the crap and admit that this is straight out of the PNAC "Securing the Realm", Zionazi dream of ZOG-US hegemony in the middle east, on the way to global domination.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> It's also the same Hezbollah that finally ran Israel out of Lebanon after a 16 year occupation.


You mean the same hezbollah  which Israel lost the war in Lebanon as well? you NeoCons are exposing yourselves.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Bend the knee?  Hezbollah?  Dude, propaganda becomes totally ineffective when you start believing your own spew.  Why are you mongering war here?  I mean, are there not ample D and R forums for you to peddle on?


I think he has being reading to much into this Pro Israeli propaganda agaisnt Hezbollah reminds me of the Bush days.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Hezbollahs goal is to make the United States bend its knees. Nice role reversal here. We aren't going to bow down to them.


Are you reading a script off by the Israeli official propaganda?
Hezbollahs goal is to make America leave the middle east region not bending your knees to them.

----------


## nikcers

> Bend the knee?  Hezbollah?  Dude, propaganda becomes totally ineffective when you start believing your own spew.  Why are you mongering war here?  I mean, are there not ample D and R forums for you to peddle on?


Thats a direct quote. They are shiite supremacists

----------


## bv3

> I think he has being reading to much into this Pro Israeli propaganda agaisnt Hezbollah reminds me of the Bush days.


While this forum has developed in many surprising ways, war mongers being entertained _​here_ is absolutely beyond the pale.

----------


## susano

> Are you trying to get me banned? You are just as bad as the military recruiters instigating Trump supporters by picking arguments with them about Trump's foreign policy and calling them a pussy until they sign up for military service.


I can't make any sense out of that, lol.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You mean the same hezbollah  which Israel lost the war in Lebanon as well? you NeoCons are exposing yourselves.


You are so busy spewing your propaganda you can't even tell who is on your side.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Hezbollahs goal is to make the United States bend its knees. Nice role reversal here. We aren't going to bow down to them.


I had being a long time member in these forums. Since 2011. Long Before your war hawk, draft doodge Trump even came into existence in Politics your accusations towards are childish at best.

----------


## nikcers

> Are you reading a script off by the Israeli official propaganda?
> Hezbollahs goal is to make America leave the middle east region not bending your knees to them.


No just a Hezbollah translated transcript.

----------


## nikcers

> I had being a long time member in these forums. Since 2011. Long Before your war hawk, draft doodge Trump even came into existence in Politics your accusations towards are childish at best.


You're not even American. Let me guess 50 cent army?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> While this forum has developed in many surprising ways, war mongers being entertained _​here_ is absolutely beyond the pale.


I am surprised how Turmp draft dodger supporters managed to find this forum. To tell you the honest truth i never liked Trump to begin. Nor do i like a adult that behaves like a mere child in public.

----------


## bv3

> Thats a direct quote. They are shiite supremacists


okay then, Colonel Cannon-Fodder.

I am going to conquer the United States! I, singly, have about as much chance at such a thing as the nation of Iran.

----------


## bv3

> I am surprised how Turmp draft dodger supporters managed to find this forum. To tell you the honest truth i never liked Trump to begin. Nor do i like a adult that behaves like a mere child in public.


you ever hear of Shareblue? Voila.

I don't think they actually believe any of this.  I have a hard time believing such...errrr...challenged people can even exist in the world.  Its more about tainting these forums.  Nothing else makes sense.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> You're not even American. Let me guess 50 cent army?


Look what you wrote in a another War hawk.



> Thats a direct quote. They are shiite supremacists


Just wow i am amazed at the stupidity of some of the Trump supporters.

----------


## bv3

It is so stupid that it cannot be believed.  This fella is a beard.

----------


## angelatc

> I found the Iranian propaghanda agent. Next time you shouldn't be so obvious. Maybe pretend to be a hippie


https://twitter.com/ThomasEWoods/sta...31311277318146

----------


## nikcers

> You have no idea what a military recruiter would even look like, because you are a chicken hawk.


You know exactly what you are doing. I know what your game is. Your psyop military recruitment isnt going to work on me. You should be ashamed of yourself.  You shouldn't use sentimental talking points to bully people into signing up for the military who are sympathetic to their country.. Military recruiters shouldnt bully people into joining the military. How do you sleep at night???

----------


## showpan

> I don't think he has a freaking clue who is who and who is doing what. He talks about going after ISIS and then attacks those actually killing ISIS. His head is up Israeli and Saudi ass, both of whom have aided and abetted Al Nusra and ISIS in Syria. 
> 
> 
> So, how does WWIII shape up as to whose on what side?
> 
> US
> UK
> France
> Israel
> ...



Definitely Russia even if it's indirectly along with China. That is what the neocons really want, a proxy war with China. I am betting the blowback from all of this will be supplied by China or possibly Pakistan who is on their side also. I wouldn't be surprised if a very big boom goes off somewhere soon with no one to blame but Trump. Martyr's are a very bad thing to create. The neocons played Trump quite well this time.

----------


## showpan

> Well, that stuff does happen in war but, then, we're told this isn't a war so ...
> 
> Let's just cut the crap and admit that this is straight out of the PNAC "Securing the Realm", Zionazi dream of ZOG-US hegemony in the middle east, on the way to global domination.


*EMPIRE*...thats the word they used in the canter of their world map. We are the new Romans

----------


## susano

> Bend the knee?  Hezbollah?  Dude, propaganda becomes totally ineffective when you start believing your own spew.  Why are you mongering war here?  I mean, are there not ample D and R forums for you to peddle on?


I thought that poster was just using sarcasm to illustrate the absurdity of the War Party position but I'm not sure now. How does someone like that wonder into the Ron Paul Forums?

----------


## susano

> You mean the same hezbollah  which Israel lost the war in Lebanon as well? you NeoCons are exposing yourselves.


I think English is not your native tongue and you're getting goofed up on what's being said. She's about as far from a neocon as anyone can be. You read the post WRONG.

----------


## nikcers

> They weren't going to invade Iraq.  They are allying with Iraq to get the USA out of Iraq.


America is in Iraq to help defend the Iraqi people from shiite supremacists. They want to take over the whole region and their natural resources. They were plotting regime change in Iraq but Trump took out the terrorist organization known as the IRGC deputy commander to prevent a war. You're not a Trump person so i guess you wouldn't understand. Trump is a hero for stopping the shiite supremacists terrorist coup from happening.

----------


## nikcers

> I thought that poster was just using sarcasm to illustrate the absurdity of the War Party position but I'm not sure now. How does someone like that wonder into the Ron Paul Forums?


Stop accusing me of sarcasm. Sarcasm is a bannable offense. Are you trying to get me banned??

----------


## susano

> I already exposed you for being a military recruiter.


Haha, what?! You're insane. If you aren't posting from a mental hospital, you should be.

----------


## showpan

> don't bother NEOCONS dont listen to reason or logic.


They have no plan either because they have no clue. To quote Dumsfeld "Who would have known they would run and hide in the hills, not stand against us on the battlefield". They still haven't learned anything in 20 years of conflict. They have only gotten richer with their enormous transfer of this countries wealth as the sheep continue to vote them into power. They only provoke and act with complete disregard to our constitution, human lives and sovereign nations. That is why we have lost the middle east. They are predictable like children with an imaginary endless supply of money and toys to play with. Nothing like a martyr to fuel the Jihad. Possibly Iran wanted this. Why else would they let one of their most beloved generals get caught out in the open like that.

----------


## nikcers

> Haha, what?! You're insane. If you aren't posting from a mental hospital, you should be.


What do you call people who tell people to sign up for the military??

----------


## Theocrat

> *America is in Iraq to help defend the Iraqi people from shiite supremacists.* They want to take over the whole region and their natural resources. They were plotting regime change in Iraq but Trump took out the terrorist organization known as the IRGC deputy commander to prevent a war. You're not a Trump person so i guess you wouldn't understand. Trump is a hero for stopping the shiite supremacists terrorist coup from happening.


[Bold emphasis mine]

There is no Constitutional justification for that objective. Period. Our country was not built to police around the world, nor to get involved in the civil affairs of foreign nations. If you refuse to understand that much, then I don't want to hear you ever again on these forums complaining about abuses of government power when it comes to domestic affairs in the U.S.

----------


## showpan

> Where have you been all this time Saudi Arabia and Iran have been in a procy war? This is an established fact. Pretending like Iran doesnt fight proxy wars is make believe. The people they funded and armed killed Americans. We told them to stop letting terrorists have weapons to use against us. Show me one source that refutes the fact that Iran funds and trains and arms terrorists to fight proxy wars. I would like to see it.


https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists

We funded terrorists long before they did. History will NOT be rewritten here.

----------


## bv3

They knew.  They knew.  As far as Iran is concerned, I suppose anything is possible.  Perhaps a general becoming too popular among the people?  Even if that were the case, how nice of US to oblige them.

----------


## nikcers

> [Bold emphasis mine]
> 
> There is no Constitutional justification for that objective. Period. Our country was not built to police around the world, nor to get involved in the civil affairs of foreign nations. If you refuse to understand that much, then I don't want to hear you ever again on these forums complaining about abuses of government power when it comes to domestic affairs in the U.S.


We don't have a choice the shiite supremacists want to take over the world. They want to make America bow down to them and lorde over America.

----------


## susano

> That's possible.
> 
> NOBODY over there is our friend.


Some are. The Israelis, the Jordanians and the Gulf States, including the head chopper offers. Nice company.

----------


## nikcers

> https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists
> 
> We funded terrorists long before they did. History will NOT be rewritten here.


I found the democrat. You're just trying to help the democrats win by confusing people with democrat talking points.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Some are. The Israelis, the Jordanians and the Gulf States, including the head chopper offers. Nice company.


They are not our friends, the MIC just pretends they are.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> They knew.  They knew.  As far as Iran is concerned, I suppose anything is possible.  Perhaps a general becoming too popular among the people?  Even if that were the case, how nice of US to oblige them.


Maybe it's part of a secret deal to get him out of the way of peace.

----------


## bv3

> Maybe it's part of a secret deal to get him out of the way of peace.


Yeah, inflaming a country by assassinating their preeminent general is likely to lead to peace.  I suppose its a matter of scale: if everyone is dead in a region, that region will know peace.

----------


## susano

> *EMPIRE*...thats the word they used in the canter of their world map. We are the new Romans


And we know how it ended for the Romans.

----------


## Theocrat

> We don't have a choice the shiite supremacists want to take over the world. They want to make America bow down to them and lorde over America.


We do have a choice, though. There are plenty of organizations and leaders around the world that threaten to attack the U.S., but those threats are neither ethical nor logical reasons to start preemptive wars against them. Until they strike upon our soil, we have no business initiating force towards them. At best, we should be diplomatic (and cautious, for sure) in trying to talk with them for the purposes of intelligence, but launching bombs on them because they have a creed of "Die, America!" is no different than shooting someone because he insulted your family.

----------


## bv3

> Some are. The Israelis, the Jordanians and the Gulf States, including the head chopper offers. Nice company.


Israelis, the people, may be.  Israel, as a polity, is definitely not our friend.

----------


## showpan

> We don't have a choice the shiite supremacists want to take over the world. They want to make America bow down to them and lorde over America.


Here, let me fix this for you comrade:

*"We...the neocon supremacists want to take over the world. We want to make the world bow down to us and lorde over the empire"*

----------


## susano

> Stop accusing me of sarcasm. Sarcasm is a bannable offense. Are you trying to get me banned??


It is? That's stupid. That said, yeah I thought you had to be being sarcastic because you were illustrating exactly everything opposed by Ron and Rand Paul. I guess you're just a troll, though.

----------


## nikcers

> They are not our friends, the MIC just pretends they are.


They are American allies. They help us contain the shiite supremacists from taking over the middle east and all of its resources. They want their empire to take over the world.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Yeah, inflaming a country by assassinating their preeminent general is likely to lead to peace.  I suppose its a matter of scale: if everyone is dead in a region, that region will know peace.


If the Ayatollah wanted him gone and he was a hardliner that resisting any possibility of peace then it very well could lead to peace.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> They are American allies. They help us contain the shiite supremacists from taking over the middle east and all of its resources. They want their empire to take over the world.


All sides over there want to take over the world.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It is? That's stupid. That said, yeah I thought you had to be being sarcastic because you were illustrating exactly everything opposed by Ron and Rand Paul. I guess you're just a troll, though.


He is referring to the recent banning of Jamesiv1/SimmerDown but that seems to have been about personal issues between him and Josh.

----------


## bv3

> If the Ayatollah wanted him gone and he was a hardliner that resisting any possibility of peace then it very well could lead to peace.


lots of if's in that there statement.

----------


## susano

> What do you call people who tell people to sign up for the military??


She's calling out your being a chicken hawk.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> They are American allies. They help us contain the shiite supremacists from taking over the middle east and all of its resources. They want their empire to take over the world.


They are not American allies when considering Israel wanted to gift to America African Migrants and most to the Western Countries.

Netanyahu: 16,250 migrants to resettle in ‘developed countries,’ rest will stay




> PM says ‘political difficulties’ prevented intended deportation to Uganda and Rwanda, brought about new deal with UN; vows to rehabilitate south Tel Aviv





> “This agreement will allow for the departure from Israel of 16,250 migrants to developed countries like Canada or Germany or Italy,” Netanyahu said, without elaborating. Other reports said the United States and Sweden would also take in some of the number.


Israel has being sending Europe these migrants quite some time before Trump.

----------


## showpan

meanwhile in America.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSTct2FFamw

----------


## AngryCanadian

> They are American allies. They help us contain the shiite supremacists from taking over the middle east and all of its resources. They want their empire to take over the world.





> the shiite supremacists from *taking over the middle east and all of its resources*


Thats what you Americans want to do in the middle east not Iran. Its why you want to a have a regime change a puppet in Iran who will help America steal Iran's oil reserves.

You have being trying to do nation building ever since the days of GW Bush and even Clinton. Bot.

Its why you Americans occupied Asia as well Japan. 
America right now is a modern day empire. An empire that is broken on the inside. And cant see whats in front of it. 



If you cant see whats ahead of you then how can you see whats in front of you?

----------


## susano

> We don't have a choice the shiite supremacists want to take over the world. They want to make America bow down to them and lorde over America.


And yet it's the Sunni Wahhabists and Sunni Muslim Brotherhood building mosques, running madrasas and funding radical jihadists all over the world. Go figure. 

So, are you a Sunni or an Israeli?

----------


## nikcers

> She's calling out your being a chicken hawk.


Thats what they want you to think but its really a psyop to brainwash people who are patriotic into joining the military. They trick people with sentimental arguments in order to goad people into joining. They call people a pussy for not joining and make people think they have to join otherwise they are a pussy.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Thats what they want you to think but its really a psyop to brainwash people who are patriotic into joining the military. They trick people with sentimental arguments in order to goad people into joining. They call people a pussy for not joining and make people think they have to join otherwise they are a pussy.


Your proving to be more of a bot then a rational normal user. Who can have debates. Your the only one in here insulting other users.





> psyop to brainwash people


Oh enough of this Bot.

----------


## showpan

> And yet it's the Sunni Wahhabists and Sunni Muslim Brotherhood building mosques, running madrasas and funding radical jihadists all over the world. Go figure. 
> 
> So, are you a Sunni or an Israeli?


Obvious isn't it.....חבר

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Obvious isn't it.....חבר


The user clearly is a bot..

----------


## susano

> Israelis, the people, may be.  Israel, as a polity, is definitely not our friend.


Oh, yeah, you're correct. I just meant "officially". In reality, international Jewry is the number one enemy of Americans. From them came communism, mass immigration (including Muslim as a weapon against Christianity), multiculturalism, usury and all manner of evil. That Cicero quote comes to mind.

----------


## nikcers

> Your proving to be more of a bot then a rational normal user. Who can have debates. Your the only one in here insulting other users.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh enough of this Bot.


I exposed them for who they are. The military recruiters are very crafty.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> Long Before your war hawk, draft doodge Trump even came into existence in Politics your accusations towards are childish at best.


This is a very strong statement about current bold POTUS,  he could not go due to a foot condition called 'bone spur'.

----------


## showpan

> I exposed them for who they are. The military recruiters are very crafty.


Dude, you should find another job, you aren't very good at this one....lol...you can't seem to focus well in an argument or debate. Maybe you might make a good phone rep in a collection agency. Heck, give it a shot

----------


## susano

> Obvious isn't it.....חבר

----------


## showpan

> 


omg...lmao

----------


## susano

lol, showpan

----------


## Swordsmyth

Earlier on Saturday, Iraq's PMF had said further air strikes near  camp Taji had killed six people and critically wounded three. The  attacks hit a convoy of medics, not senior leaders, the grouping said.
Iraqi  state television had said they were U.S. air strikes but the U.S.-led  coalition fighting Islamic State later denied any involvement, saying it  did not conduct any recent attacks near the camp north of Baghdad.
"FACT:  the coalition ... did not conduct airstrikes near Camp Taji (north of  Baghdad) in recent days," a coalition spokesman said on Twitter.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-led-coa...064506899.html

----------


## Swordsmyth

> lots of if's in that there statement.


*Iraq's top Shi'ite cleric tells all parties to practice restraint*

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> *Iraq's top Shi'ite cleric tells all parties to practice restraint*


B.S. ! You gotta fight for your right to party!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6FORM%3DHDRSC3

----------


## jmdrake

> I've been reading today, trying to get up to speed on who this guy was.  This 2013 article called "The Shadow Commander" is a fascinating read. 
> 
> Here's a gem:





> Just read the snip and not the article, yet, but that's fascinating. It recalls a PM conversation I had with a Kurd female. She was from what is Iran but hated the Iranians (because Kurds want independence from everyone and aren't fundamentalists) and told me that her tribe was pro Taliban. I was shocked.  It was simply my enemy's enemy is my friend in a very complicated part of the world which is totally tribal.
> 
> While I sure didn't support the invasion of Afghanistan, how unfortunate that the US stabbed the Iranians in the back and increased hostility. The US has a habit of doing that, all over the world. Now, with this latest stuff, the US won't have any opportunity for better relations with Iran for decades - unless it overthrows their govt, which it could try to do.


Thanks for the link.  I noticed this part (still reading).

_Last February, some of Irans most influential leaders gathered at the Amir al-Momenin Mosque, in northeast Tehran, inside a gated community reserved for officers of the Revolutionary Guard. They had come to pay their last respects to a fallen comrade. Hassan Shateri, a veteran of Irans covert wars throughout the Middle East and South Asia, was a senior commander in a powerful, élite branch of the Revolutionary Guard called the Quds Force. The force is the sharp instrument of Iranian foreign policy, roughly analogous to a combined C.I.A. and Special Forces; its name comes from the Persian word for Jerusalem, which its fighters have promised to liberate._

So ^that's why the "Quds" force has been singled out by the U.S.

----------


## jmdrake

> https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists
> 
> We funded terrorists long before they did. History will NOT be rewritten here.


True.




> I found the democrat. You're just trying to help the democrats win by confusing people with democrat talking points.


 Spoken like a true Ron Paul hater.  Ron Paul has long talked about how the U.S. has funded terrorism.  And he even went as far as to say that Israel helped found Hamas.




And that fact is *documented* by declassified documents obtained by the conservative group Judicial Watch.  

https://www.judicialwatch.org/videos...els-jihadists/

So you would slime conservatives just because they happen to agree with the *one* democrat who actually understands what's going on when it comes to foreign policy.  In that you are siding with Hillary Clinton.

----------


## jmdrake

> America is in Iraq to help defend the Iraqi people from shiite supremacists. They want to take over the whole region and their natural resources. They were plotting regime change in Iraq but Trump took out the terrorist organization known as the IRGC deputy commander to prevent a war. You're not a Trump person so i guess you wouldn't understand. Trump is a hero for stopping the shiite supremacists terrorist coup from happening.


You know that Iraq is majority shiite right?  One man one vote.




> [Bold emphasis mine]
> 
> There is no Constitutional justification for that objective. Period. Our country was not built to police around the world, nor to get involved in the civil affairs of foreign nations. If you refuse to understand that much, then I don't want to hear you ever again on these forums complaining about abuses of government power when it comes to domestic affairs in the U.S.


^This

----------


## jmdrake

> *Iraq's top Shi'ite cleric tells all parties to practice restraint*


I'm not sure what your point is.  That the Iraqi top Shiite cleric wouldn't be calling for restraint if he supported what Soelimani was doing?  Nonsense!  Trump called for restraint, in his own way, after Iran shot down a U.S. drone.  That doesn't mean he was against what the military was doing with the drone.  Maybe he was...maybe he wasn't.  The Iranians don't want an all out war with the U.S. and the sane people in the U.S. don't want an all out war with Iran.  Taking over Iraq was easy.  Saddam was a tin pot dictator from the Sunni religion who was ruling over a majority shiite nation.  Iran is a shiite nation ruled by shiites and a nation smart enough to read the tea leaves and form an early alliance with Russia and China.  It's a lose/lose war for either side.  So both sides engage in proxy skirmishes.

----------


## nikcers

> You know that Iraq is majority shiite right?  One man one vote.
> 
> 
> 
> ^This


Just because someone is shiite that doesnt automatically make them a shiite supremacist. Some shiites think they are the chosen shiites. Those shiites are shiite supremacists. They want to take over the middle east and all of its resources.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Dear Trump supporters please stop embarrassing yourselves now.

----------


## nikcers

I didn't realize RPF had so many shiite supremacists.

----------


## juleswin

> Just because someone is shiite that doesnt automatically make them a shiite supremacist. Some shiites think they are the chosen shiites. Those shiites are shiite supremacists. They want to take over the middle east and all of its resources.


Remember guys, the zionist wails in pain as he strikes you. The zionists and their sunni allies are trying to dominate the whole middle east and at the same time claiming that it is what they are trying to prevent. This is very typical of their kind

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I didn't realize RPF had so many shiite supremacists.


You Trump  NeoCon supporters seem to be taking over other forums that lacked in activity for years while still Trying justify Trump actions.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I didn't realize RPF had so many shiite supremacists.


John Bolton the man who was second behind the Iraqi war is very pleased at Trump. I am sure Bolton who you greatly support and love to  your heart content No?

----------


## nikcers

> You Trump  NeoCon supporters seem to be taking over other forums that lacked in activity for years while still Trying justify Trump actions.


Bernie Sanders is a shiite supremacist. Maybe you should check out some democrat forums. They don't seem to care if foreigners meddle in our elections too because they pay for it.  They might even offer you compensation.

----------


## AngryCanadian

US lies and deception spelled out in Afghanistan papers' shocking detail

If your own gov is lying about Afghanistan  why should anyone anything it about what happen in Iraq on Iran now?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Bernie Sanders is a shiite supremacist. Maybe you should check out some democrat forums. They don't seem to care if foreigners meddle in our elections too because they pay for it.  They might even offer you compensation.


Bernie Sanders is a American/Jew you dump idiot. Whose actually a bit sane.

----------


## nikcers

> Bernie Sanders is a American/Jew you dump idiot. Whose actually a bit sane.


You don't have to be a shiite to be a shiite supremacist. Obama was a shiite supremacist and gave Iran the country of Iraq and pallets of cash as tributes and forced the rest of the world to let them become a nuclear power he just made sure the nuclear agreement expired after his presidential term was over.

----------


## juleswin

> You don't have to be a shiite to be a shiite supremacist. Obama was a shiite supremacist and gave Iran the country of Iraq and pallets of cash as tributes and forced the rest of the world to let them become a nuclear power he just made sure the nuclear agreement expired after his presidential term was over.


Gave Iraq to Iran while still leaving US troop in the country, yea that makes sense. How do you explain the Syria and Libyan wars? are those shiite supremacy moves too? Where is god when you need him?

----------


## nikcers

> Gave Iraq to Iran while still leaving US troop in the country, yea that makes sense. How do you explain the Syria and Libyan wars? are those shiite supremacy moves too? Where is god when you need him?


He didn't want to make it obvious. If people knew he would get blamed and it might cause a political movement of antishiiteism. That's why he pulled only 90% of the troops out of Iraq and made sure to write the nuclear agreement so that it expired after his presidential term was over so he didn't get blamed for giving Iraq to Iran and letting them have nukes.

----------


## juleswin

> He didn't want to make it obvious. If people knew he would get blamed and it might cause a political movement of antishiiteism. That's why he pulled only 90% of the troops out of Iraq and made sure to write the nuclear agreement so that it expired after his presidential term was over so he didn't get blamed for giving Iraq to Iran and letting them have nukes.


He made it so obvious that a nobody like you was able to sniff it out and while he was at it he made sure he kept up the attack on Syria so Iran can bleed a bit more blood and treasure trying to rescue it. Reality seems t point to the idea that Obama was equally as anti shia as Trump is. Most of the sanctions were kept in place, their allies being attack on all fronts etc etc.

----------


## showpan

> He didn't want to make it obvious. If people knew he would get blamed and it might cause a political movement of antishiiteism. That's why he pulled only 90% of the troops out of Iraq and made sure to write the nuclear agreement so that it expired after his presidential term was over so he didn't get blamed for giving Iraq to Iran and letting them have nukes.


Wrong again. In 2015, Iran agreed a long-term deal (2031) on its nuclear programme with a group of world powers known as the P5+1 - the US, UK, France, China, Russia and Germany. Obama was an NWO spokesman. A true globalist following in the footsteps of Clinton and both Bushnozles

----------


## misterx

We've been here before with Syria. Time will tell if this becomes all out war.

----------


## showpan

> We've been here before with Syria. Time will tell if this becomes all out war.


This will probably never become an all out war with Iran. We can't invade them and risk war with their allies. They will continue their proxy guerrilla wars that will last for another decade slowly killing our boys, draining our economy and funneling the country's wealth back into the military complex. The middle east has never been about winning. It is all about Keynes economics and perpetual war, corporate greed and the globalist agenda. Trump has been played by the neocons.

----------


## nikcers

> Wrong again. In 2015, Iran agreed a long-term deal (2031) on its nuclear programme with a group of world powers known as the P5+1 - the US, UK, France, China, Russia and Germany. Obama was an NWO spokesman. A true globalist following in the footsteps of Clinton and both Bushnozles


Well after Obama's presidency. No one would think to blame him. Coincidentally thats the timeline shiite supremacists say that other countries in the middle east will be wiped off the map.

----------


## nikcers

> He made it so obvious that a nobody like you was able to sniff it out and while he was at it he made sure he kept up the attack on Syria so Iran can bleed a bit more blood and treasure trying to rescue it. Reality seems t point to the idea that Obama was equally as anti shia as Trump is. Most of the sanctions were kept in place, their allies being attack on all fronts etc etc.


He was just being controlled opposition so the shiite supremacists have an excuse to spend all of their money on rocket technology and fund terrorist organizations to take over the other countries Obama did regime change in. Obama couldnt just give the Iranians rocket scientists and missles. Plus the shiite supremacists want to take over more than just Iraq.

----------


## nikcers

This post soleimani made on social media should tell you lots about his defenders on RPF

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Tucker mentioned Sasse.  He took issue with the 'its simple' part. It was a blistering monologue. I'll post it later when they put it up . Currently Hannity is foaming out the mouth about how bad and evil he was with zero evidence for the numerous claims.


Its amazing how much this is just about how evil the guy was, and nothing about process or legality.

----------


## angelatc

> America is in Iraq to help defend the Iraqi people from shiite supremacists. They want to take over the whole region and their natural resources. They were plotting regime change in Iraq but Trump took out the terrorist organization known as the IRGC deputy commander to prevent a war. You're not a Trump person so i guess you wouldn't understand. Trump is a hero for stopping the shiite supremacists terrorist coup from happening.


Hussein was Sunni.  We protected the $#@! out of him.

Trump people do not belong here.  We are Ron Paul Forums, not ''Trump's Delusional Supporters'' forums.

----------


## angelatc

> This post soleimani made on social media should tell you lots about his defenders on RPF


Our position is 100 percent easy to understand, chicken hawk. If you are struggling with that, then that's just more evidence you do not belong here - you're are only here to troll.   We  do not belong in the Middle East. That is something we agreed with him on.

Nothing in that region is worth a single American life.

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> This will probably never become an all out war with Iran. We can't invade them and risk war with their allies. They will continue their proxy guerrilla wars that will last for another decade slowly killing our boys, draining our economy and funneling the country's wealth back into the military complex. The middle east has never been about winning. It is all about Keynes economics and perpetual war, corporate greed and the globalist agenda. Trump has been played by the neocons.


This and resource management (oil) through proxy war & corrupt political powers to keep the global economy on its feet. Were in this (and the World as well) because of oil. Plain and simple, the global economy depends on it. When we move off oil all this will vanish and shift to the next global energy source that needs management. Decentralize a global energy source and things will improve.

----------


## angelatc

> Wrong again. In 2015, Iran agreed a long-term deal (2031) on its nuclear programme with a group of world powers known as the P5+1 - the US, UK, France, China, Russia and Germany. Obama was an NWO spokesman. A true globalist following in the footsteps of Clinton and both Bushnozles


Not to mention that  Trump immediately broke the treaty, thus proving yet again that the USA can't be trusted.

----------


## angelatc

> This and resource management (oil) through proxy war & corrupt political powers to keep the global economy on its feet. Were in this (and the World as well) because of oil. Plain and simple, the global economy depends on it. When we move off oil all this will vanish and shift to the next global energy source that needs management. Decentralize a global energy source and things will improve.


How much oil could we buy with the money we have spent / are spending on this nonsense

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> How much oil could we buy with the money we have spent / are spending on this nonsense


Right, and how much research could have been accomplished.

----------


## Pauls' Revere

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ut/2803520001/

WASHINGTON – The killing of powerful Iranian military leader Qasem Soleimani  prompted fears of violence and chaos across the Middle East as national security experts warned it could galvanize Iran's proxy forces against the United States and put a target on Americans across the globe.
Already, Iran has threatened "revenge," world leaders have expressed alarm, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has been working the State Department phone lines to reassure and rally unnerved American allies. Soleimani led Iran's elite military force and was the country's second most influential figure.
"The entire world will need to be on high alert for months or, more likely, years," said Jon Alterman, senior vice president of the Center for Strategic and International Studies and an expert on global security.  
Iran will respond by "forcing itself to the forefront of U.S. foreign policy considerations for years to come and drawing the United States into precisely the sort of shadowy battles the Pentagon has been trying to escape for more than a decade," Alterman said in a CSIS analysis posted Friday.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> It’s amazing how much this is just about how “evil” the guy was, and nothing about process or legality.


 Or the usual concern over "blowback".

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> It’s amazing how much this is just about how “evil” the guy was, and nothing about process or legality.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brian4Liberty again.

----------


## Sammy

> America is in Iraq to help defend the Iraqi people from shiite supremacists. They want to take over the whole region and their natural resources. They were plotting regime change in Iraq but Trump took out the terrorist organization known as the IRGC deputy commander to prevent a war. You're not a Trump person so i guess you wouldn't understand. Trump is a hero for stopping the shiite supremacists terrorist coup from happening.


The Problem is that most Iraqi's are shia & they support Iran.
We should not make the same mistake again by starting a dumb war with Iran.
I hope you are not for a war with iran!

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> 


Was this the same outfit  that uncovered first vid of fake  ISIS group? 
 Not suggesting this is necessarily fake production but there has been history of fake claims/false flag translations from similar entities linked to our best friend  in mideast to induce Western troops to keep occupying mideast regions.

*Selective Memri*
Brian Whitaker investigates whether the 'independent' media institute  that translates the Arabic newspapers is quite what it seems 
Brian Whitaker
Mon 12 Aug 2002
For some time now, I have been receiving small gifts from a generous  institute in the United States. The gifts are high-quality translations  of articles from Arabic newspapers which the institute sends to me by  email every few days, entirely free-of-charge. The emails also go to politicians and academics, as well as to lots  of other journalists. The stories they contain are usually interesting. 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20....brianwhitaker


In any case, who do you think poses greater threat to American liberties, some foreign person with such tweet   or a person in America publishing material like this in America?


*Publisher of the Atlanta Jewish Times suggests Mossad should assassinate Obama over US Iran policy*
_Adam Horowitz on January 20, 2012 





			
				                                                         John Cook reports at Gawker:                       


_


> Andrew Adler, the owner and publisher of the  Atlanta Jewish  Times, a     weekly newspaper serving Atlantas Jewish  community,  devoted his   January   13, 2012 column to the thorny problem  of the  U.S. and Israels     diverging views on the threat posed by  Iran.  Basically Israel has   three   options, he wrote: Strike Hezbollah  and  Hamas, strike Iran, or order a hit on Barack Obama. Either way, problem solved!
>  Heres how Adler laid out option three in his list of scenarios       facing Israeli president Benjamin Netanyahu (the column, which was       forwarded to us by a tipster, isnt online, but you can read a copy here):
> 
>  Three, give the go-ahead for U.S.-based  Mossad agents to take out a      president deemed unfriendly to Israel in  order for the current vice      president to take his place, and forcefully  dictate that the United      States policy includes its helping the Jewish  state obliterate its      enemies.
>  Yes, you read three correctly. Order a  hit on a president in order      to preserve Israels existence. Think about  it. If I have thought of      this Tom Clancy-type scenario, dont you think  that this almost      unfathomable idea has been discussed in Israels most  inner circles?
>  Another way of putting three in  perspective goes something like      this: How far would you go to save a  nation comprised of seven million      livesJews, Christians and Arabs  alike?
>  You have got to believe, like I do, that all options are on the table.

----------


## RonZeplin

Hillary and the neocons love President Donnell since he bombed Iran. 



Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

McCain would have been so proud.

----------


## nikcers

> Our position is 100 percent easy to understand, chicken hawk. If you are struggling with that, then that's just more evidence you do not belong here - you're are only here to troll.   We  do not belong in the Middle East. That is something we agreed with him on.
> 
> Nothing in that region is worth a single American life.


We bought Iraq with blood and treasure. America overwhelmingly supported the guy who said take the oil, to the victor goes the spoils. They could of elected ISIS queen or Rand Paul. Why are you taking Irans side on this against the America that elected Donald Trump?? Are you anti American or a shiite supremacist?? Why do you hate the America that elected Trump so much that you would take Iran's side when they are trying to steal American treasure?

----------


## nikcers

> How much oil could we buy with the money we have spent / are spending on this nonsense


All of the oil in Iraq. That's how much.

----------


## nikcers

> The Problem is that most Iraqi's are shia & they support Iran.
> We should not make the same mistake again by starting a dumb war with Iran.
> I hope you are not for a war with iran!


Well than they shouldnt of lost the war. Iraq doesn't belong to them anymore.

----------


## shakey1

> McCain would have been so proud.


LG will be there to carry the torch, I’m sure.

----------


## Swordsmyth

>

----------


## tommyrp12

President Trump Issues Strong Warning To Iran, Says U.S. Has 52 Iranian Sites In Its Crosshairs

https://breaking911.com/breaking-pre...ts-crosshairs/




> President Donald Trump on Saturday issued a blistering statement warning Iran of a large United States response if the Islamic Republic attacks U.S. interests following the killing of Qasem Soleimani.
> 
> Iran is talking very boldly about targeting certain USA assets as revenge for our ridding the world of their terrorist leader who had just killed an American, & badly wounded many others, not to mention all of the people he had killed over his lifetime, including recently hundreds of Iranian protesters. He was already attacking our Embassy, and preparing for additional hits in other locations. Iran has been nothing but problems for many years. Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!

----------


## Pauls' Revere

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shocked-i...l?guccounter=1

Iraqis awoke to the news Friday that Maj. Gen. Qasem Soleimani of Iran, the architect of Iran’s dominating influence over Iraq, had been killed in a U.S. drone strike, along with several others.
Even before the shock of the brazen killing wore off, Iraqi factions were weighing their responses. Militias with ties to Iran vowed bloody revenge. Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi condemned the attack as “an outrageous breach to Iraqi sovereignty” and said parliament would meet to discuss the future of the U.S. presence in Iraq.
Anti-government protesters, who have been protesting Iran’s stifling influence in the country, were worried their movement could be snuffed out by pro-Iran militias. And throughout the country, there was the familiar feeling that Iraq was a mere bystander in the broader geopolitical conflict between the U.S. and Iran taking place on Iraqi soil.
More broadly, the events raised a single, overarching question: can the U.S. maintain a cooperative security relationship with Iraq given the upheaval the assassination has provoked? The question was already coursing through the halls of power in Baghdad, even as the Trump administration said Friday that it was rushing new troops to the region in response to the crisis.
The airstrike on Soleimani “was a clear breach of the terms of the American forces’ presence,” Abdul Mahdi said.
He said that parliament would meet in the coming days to consider “appropriate measures to preserve the dignity of Iraq and its security and sovereignty,” including whether to ask the Americans to leave.

please,...please tell Trump to remove American forces.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> President Trump Issues Strong Warning To Iran, Says U.S. Has 52 Iranian Sites In Its Crosshairs
> 
> https://breaking911.com/breaking-pre...ts-crosshairs/


Omg, Trump is more of a manchild then i though with that threat statement.




> The USA wants no more threats!”


Well maybe the American gov should have off that before killing the general? because this is not you make or do negotiations to get deals!

----------


## tommyrp12

> Omg, Trump is more of a manchild then i though with that threat statement.
> 
> 
> Well maybe the American gov should have off that before killing the general? because this is not you make or do negotiations to get deals!


Israel has wanted this for a long time. This is their opportunity. It's going to happen.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Israel has wanted this for a long time. This is their opportunity. It's going to happen.


Not sure how this is going to benefit Israel while having the region in more chaos. A quick regime change or removal of Iranian gov by force is not going to happen as it was with Iraq. Iran is not Iraq.

But your right, they have being wanting this war for decades seven years in seven countries. Israel doesn't care if this creates more migrants or forces Iran or Turkey to send more migrants to Europe.

But with things like this is how you create nationalist movements.

This will create a blowback for Israel you will see.

----------


## tommyrp12

> Not sure how this is going to benefit Israel while having the region in more chaos. A quick regime change or removal of Iranian gov by force is not going to happen as it was with Iraq. Iran is not Iraq.
> 
> But your right, they have being wanting this war for decades seven years in seven countries. Israel doesn't care if this creates more migrants or forces Iran or Turkey to send more migrants to Europe.
> 
> But with things like this is how you create nationalist movements.
> 
> This will create a blowback for Israel you will see.


Yup, it's going to be a mess. Hitting cultural targets is going to piss off more than Iran depending on what they are.

----------


## tommyrp12

Wasting no time..........

----------


## SummersEve

> Ah did you just create account so you could defend your dear leader Trump Man Child?


I fart in your general direction.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I fart in your general direction.


Ah you remind of those Trump Supporters on Twitter and YT who always insult and scream,yell, maybe there is a reason why you guys are being banned on Social Media sites? because you always to turn insults rather then talking rational?

Your Trump nearly had my respect and support but noope. His just another NeoCon.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I fart in your general direction.

----------


## SummersEve

> Ah you remind of those Trump Supporters on Twitter and YT who always insult and scream,yell, maybe there is a reason why you guys are being banned on Social Media sites? because you always to turn insults rather then talking rational?


One more word and I will fart at you again.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> One more word and I will fart at you again.


Oh i see did you create just this account to harass me and other users?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Ah you remind of those Trump Supporters on Twitter and YT who always insult and scream,yell, maybe there is a reason why you guys are being banned on Social Media sites? because you always to turn insults rather then talking rational?
> 
> Your Trump nearly had my respect and support but noope. His just another NeoCon.


Your leftism and projection are showing.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Your leftism and projection are showing.


Your Neoconservatism, War Mongerism is showing.

----------


## Ender

> One more word and I will fart at you again.


Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!

----------


## AngryCanadian

You so called Trump supporters are actually celebrating the fact that Trump wants to bomb 52 Iranian Cultural sites? You guys are pathetic.
Why are you posting your crap and bull*** of Trump in here with your War Mongering! 

Take your crap elsewhere.

Oh and yeah F*** Trump. A Sellsman is what your man is. Who lies to you because your to stupid to buy into it!

----------


## Ender

> You NeoCons are actually celebrating the fact that Trump wants to bomb 52 Iranian Cultural sites? You guys are pathetic.


Agree.

----------


## SummersEve

> Oh i see did you create just this account to harass me and other users?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> 


Your quite of a manchild

----------


## AngryCanadian

Speaking of Trump hows that fake border wall coming along now? has Great Leader finished the wall yet or is it a prototype still?  
Maybe that's why Trump is deflecting his attention to Iran.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Speaking of Trump hows that fake border wall coming along now? has Great Leader finished the wall or just a prototype still?




 *Trump Wall*

*Miles Built: 96*

*Miles to be Built: 509+*

https://www.trumpwall.construction/  


Update your talking points.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> *Trump Wall*
> 
> *Miles Built: 96*
> 
> *Miles to be Built: 509+*
> 
> https://www.trumpwall.construction/  
> 
> 
> Update your talking points.




Yeah i don't see it being finished.

----------


## RJB

I predict that this will be all but forgotten when November 2020 gets here.  Something bigger and stupider will have happened between now and then.  Scratch that.  Not something but a lot of stupid crap will happen between now and then.  

I don't like what Trump did, but Iran is smart enough not to go to eat against the US (and all the Sunni Muslim nations) over this.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Yeah i don't see it being finished.


None are so blind as those who will not see.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I predict that this will be all but forgotten when November 2020 gets here.  Something bigger and stupider will have happened between now and then.  Scratch that.  Not something but a lot of stupid crap will happen between now and then.  
> 
> I don't like what Trump did, but Iran is smart enough not to go to eat against the US (and all the Sunni Muslim nations) over this.


Your forgetting one thing, Europe, Britain whose suggesting that revenge could happen in the middle east? who was it that said Europe is a soft spot?

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> 


My dog has no nose.

How does it smell?

Awful!

LOL

----------


## AngryCanadian

Americans killed an Iranian general who saved Christians in Syria who were betrayed by the Kurds.


I am sure ISIS is very happy.

----------


## Warlord

If Trump gores full scale war with Iran then we will end up with Bernie as president. The public dont wan't war. he is miscalculating badly.

----------


## pcosmar

> You know if anything that Iran has the power of and that its the *OIL.*
> I don't want to speculate to much here but i am sure you know what i mean when i said OIL, and Markets when it comes to the oil markets. Iran is the world largest next to Saudi Arabia.


Iran *Owns* the Straits of Hormuz.

1/5 of the WORLDS shipping and Commerce goes through there.  Or it Doesn't..

Up to Iran..(entirely and completely),,   and any attack will close it till hostilities cease.

Global Economic Market Crashes ensure total World War.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Its so nice to see America siding with AlQaida, and ISIS all together for a common cause.
Regime Change..

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Iran *Owns* the Straits of Hormuz.


No it doesn't.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> If Trump gores full scale war with Iran then we will end up with Bernie as president. The public dont wan't war. he is miscalculating badly.


He will not go to a full scale war and Bernie will never be president.

----------


## pcosmar

> If Trump gores full scale war with Iran then we will end up with Bernie as president. The public dont wan't war. he is miscalculating badly.


If Trump keeps Phucking with Iran it won't matter if Bernie wins.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Iran *Owns* the Straits of Hormuz.
> 
> 1/5 of the WORLDS shipping and Commerce goes through there.  Or it Doesn't..
> 
> Up to Iran..(entirely and completely),,   and any attack will close it till hostilities cease.
> 
> Global Economic Market Crashes ensure total World War.






> Up to Iran..(entirely and completely)


Actually its up to America, Trump now and his NeoCon buddies whatever he wants to win a reelection or be known a president who started a world war over Iran and Obama record......

I believe Trump admin is actually trying to push Iran to close Straits of Hormuz..

The threat that idiot Trump did just today really doesnt help things right now it escalates things worse.
I wish Trump just shut up on twitter and stop acting like a man child.

----------


## Warlord

> He will not go to a full scale war and Bernie will never be president.


He is threating to hit 52 sites if Iran takes revenge and they will take revenge so this is going  to escalate. Trump is miscalculating. Also he has no authorization to take these actions, he is wreckless.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> He is threating to hit 52 sites if Iran takes revenge and they will take revenge so this is going  to escalate. Trump is miscalculating. Also he has no authorization to take these actions, he is wreckless.


If democrats want to save the world from his lunatic i think this is prefect for another congress session for impeachment there is no way Trump could defend himself over this one let alone his tweets on twitter wont help him.

Meanwhile Iran has two ways of getting back to Trump the manhchild.

Starits,Oil Prices with it and what you have after this? markets wont like it. Its to bad Trump supporters cant see what is happening well i hope they will be getting ready for it if it does.

----------


## pcosmar

> No it doesn't.


Yes it Does..Iran Owns the Straits,  And they Have proven that .. They Own it and They decide who will not use it.

They can close it,, in an instant... They have before..

and they can clear ALL shipping out to 200 miles from their Coast. inside of 15 minutes. (US Navy estimate)


these continued assaults and Provocations will blow up in our faces soon.

----------


## Warlord

> Yes it Does..Iran Owns the Straits,  And they Have proven that .. They Own it and They decide who will not use it.
> 
> They can close it,, in an instant... They have before..
> 
> and they can clear ALL shipping out to 200 miles from their Coast. inside of 15 minutes. (US Navy estimate)
> 
> 
> these continued assaults and Provocations will blow up in our faces soon.


Indeed. Trump is acting like a bully. The neocons will get their war.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Yes it Does..Iran Owns the Straits,  And they Have proven that .. They Own it and They decide who will not use it.
> 
> They can close it,, in an instant... They have before..
> 
> and they can clear ALL shipping out to 200 miles from their Coast. inside of 15 minutes. (US Navy estimate)
> 
> 
> these continued assaults and Provocations will blow up in our faces soon.


Not just Straits i just realized Iran can also play and manipulate with the oil prices, just wait till summer, the oil prices go through heavily this time around, Saudi Arabia wont able to adjust to much.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Indeed. Trump is acting like a bully. The neocons will get their war.


The Neocons might get their war for a short time but it will blow in their faces as well. Iran will stop when America crashes economically and completely withdraw from the region.

----------


## pcosmar

> He is threating to hit 52 sites if Iran takes revenge and they will take revenge so this is going  to escalate. Trump is miscalculating. Also he has no authorization to take these actions, he is wreckless.


He is threatening to try..

a bunch of Blowhard Bluster.

He is doing nothing but Promising to get Americans Killed for his Arrogance.
And he may succeed in doing that.

----------


## PRB

> I still wouldn't call this "war".


derp state.

----------


## Warlord

> He is threatening to try..
> 
> a bunch of Blowhard Bluster.
> 
> He is doing nothing but Promising to get Americans Killed for his Arrogance.
> And he may succeed in doing that.


The power he has being CIC of the most powerful military is going to his head and the Pentagon as well. They think they can do anything they damn want..

----------


## nikcers

> He is threating to hit 52 sites if Iran takes revenge and they will take revenge so this is going  to escalate. Trump is miscalculating. Also he has no authorization to take these actions, he is wreckless.


Rand Paul said he would automatically have authority. He mentioned this in an interview on Fox. He doesn't need authorization in this scenario. He would just tell congress the country is in a state of war.  Its not revenge if Iran attacks. Its defensive.

----------


## AngryCanadian

You know what's rather ironic?
Pompeo and Trump were talking about deescalation and negotiations and here we have a blowhard clown, manchild Trump threatening to bomb cultural sites.  Which were related to the Iranians in the past!


How is this deescalation? this is not how you make deals. Deals are not reached with threats. dont be surprised if Iran just ignores both Pompeo and other Euporean officials who might want try to push for deescalation.

They will be accused of being Euporean puppets for America.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You know what's rather ironic?
> Pompeo and Trump were talking about deescalation and negotiations and here we have a blowhard clown, manchild Trump threatening to bomb cultural sites.  Which were related to the Iranians in the past!
> 
> 
> How is this deescalation? this is not how you make deals. Deals are not reached with threats. dont be surprised if Iran just ignores both Pompeo and other Euporean officials who might want try to push for deescalation.
> 
> They will be accused of being Euporean puppets for America.


You know nothing about negotiations with enemies.

----------


## Warlord

> Rand Paul said he would automatically have authority. He mentioned this in an interview on Fox. He doesn't need authorization in this scenario. He would just tell congress the country is in a state of war.  Its not revenge if Iran attacks. Its defensive.


Rand is very clear.  You can only go to war with a declaration:

----------


## Warlord

> Trump Supporters are now accusing Iran and the dead Iranian general for Libya's Benghazi.
> 
> 
> First they said it was Hillary now this?


They're desperate.  They also call him a terrorist and has killed 600 Americans.  No proof of this.

----------


## nikcers

Essentially if a state of war exists and the president does not command the armed forces they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and can be impeached. They can impeach him for it even if they think they need authorization from congress and congress doesn't give them authorization or doesn't pass a declaration.

----------


## bv3

> Essentially if a state of war exists and the president does not command the armed forces they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and can be impeached. They can impeach him for it even if they think they need authorization from congress and congress doesn't give them authorization or doesn't pass a declaration.


Circular.  The state of war that may exist has been precipitated by the president's actions alone.  His unilateral assassination of a foriegn general is the casus belli.  You've just admitted that Trump has already committed an impeachable offense--declaring war unilaterally.

----------


## bv3

Having, in blatant disregard of the law, placed the country in a state of war with another--previously neutral-- country by acting unilaterally, without a Congressional declaration, Trump has already broken the law.  To then say that, because he broke the law, he is obliged to keep on breaking it--as not to break that law further.  Well, I don't know.  I guess thats Beard logic.

----------


## nikcers

> Obviously the scope of that action would be limited to minimizing the damage done by the attack, and attaining stability, until Congress could take a proper vote.  Thats In Arguendo.  Constitution trumps your war mongers act.


No laws are interpreted by judges and that's what the Supreme court ruled. Any court would refer to that ruling and throw out the case. Or tbey would refer to the war powers act which gives similar authority albeit more defined but its basically the interpretation the Supreme court made with a time limit.

----------


## bv3

> No laws are interpreted by judges and that's what the Supreme court ruled. Any court would refer to that ruling and throw out the case. Or tbey would refer to the war powers act which gives similar authority albeit more defined but its basically the interpretation the Supreme court maxe witb a time limit.


*"No laws are interpreted by judges..."  
*
Errr...

----------


## nikcers

> *"No laws are interpreted by judges..."  
> *
> Errr...


LOL

----------


## Warlord

Nine judges in black robes do not supersede the constitution either.

----------


## bv3

> Nine judges in black robes do not supersede the constitution either.


he isn't well...

----------


## nikcers

> Nine judges in black robes do not supersede the constitution either.


They interpret the law. Our justice system isn't perfect but that's how it works. That's how the Supreme Court has interpreted the constitution. That's why letting liberals nominate judges is dangerous .. I recommend learning more about law if you don't know this much. It can make all the difference if you find yourself in trouble with the law

----------


## bv3

> They interpret the law. Our justice system isn't perfect but that's how it works. That's how the Supreme Court has interpreted the constitution. That's why letting liberals nominate judges is dangerous .. I recommend learning more about law if you don't know this much. It can make all the difference if you find yourself in trouble with the law


How's the weather in Hyerabad?

----------


## Warlord

> They interpret the law. Our justice system isn't perfect but that's how it works. That's how the Supreme Court has interpreted the constitution. That's why letting liberals nominate judges is dangerous .. I recommend learning more about law if you don't know this much. It can make all the difference if you find yourself in trouble with the law



I recommend reading Ron Paul's teachings.  I have no idea why you post here.

----------


## bv3

We get the fifth tier _at best_
...testament to the degradation.

----------


## Warlord

*
Ron Paul in the US House of Representatives, October 3, 2002
*



> The last time Congress declared war was on December 11, 1941, against Germany in response to its formal declaration of war against the United States. This was accomplished with wording that took less than one-third of a page, without any nitpicking arguments over precise language, yet it was a clear declaration of who the enemy was and what had to be done. And in three-and-a-half years, this was accomplished. A similar resolve came from the declaration of war against Japan three days earlier. Likewise, a clear-cut victory was achieved against Japan.
> 
> Many Americans have been forced into war since that time on numerous occasions, with no congressional declaration of war and with essentially no victories. Today’s world political condition is as chaotic as ever. We’re still in Korea and we’re still fighting the Persian Gulf War that started in 1990.
> 
> The process by which we’ve entered wars over the past 57 years, and the inconclusive results of each war since that time, are obviously related to Congress’ abdication of its responsibility regarding war, given to it by Article I Section 8 of the Constitution.


More:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/...-constitution/

----------


## nikcers

> I recommend reading Ron Paul's teachings.  I have no idea why you post here.


I supported Ron Paul. I agree with his more originalist interpretation of the constitution. I hoped he won and nominated judges that were like minded and vetoed legislation that was unconstitutional. Ron Paul has said many times though that congress doesn't even consider whether legislation is constitutional they leave that to the courts. The courts interpretation of laws are everything. Ron Paul said when he first became a congressman he asked his peers and thats what they told him. The courts would have to rule that the interpretation was incorrect in order to change the current interpretation of article 2 section 2. Most of the time they stick to the case law or the interpretation that has been made for the law or article of the constitution. Or they would have to rule that the action did not fit the current interpretation of the law or case law or article of the constitution. Then it would be a new distinct interpretation of the law or article of the constitution.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I recommend reading Ron Paul's teachings.  I have no idea why you post here.


Probably a Trump bot not an actual Trump Supporter, who seems to have no problems of starting a war with Iran or wants it to happen and always blames Obama admin? i can see they already infecting some internet forums including ATS.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

Flashback:

I think were looking for trouble because we put these horrendous   sanctions on Iran Sanctions against Iran are definite steps toward a US   attack. Iran sanctions acts of war: Ron Paul

*Source: Tehran TV Loves Ron Paul*

----------


## Warlord

> Flashback:
> 
> “I think we’re looking for trouble because we put these horrendous   sanctions on Iran… Sanctions against Iran are definite steps toward a US   attack.” “Iran sanctions ‘acts of war’: Ron Paul
> 
> *Source: Tehran TV Loves Ron Paul*


Ron has warned about this for years.

And now its happening.

The stuff of nightmares.

----------


## nikcers

> Probably a Trump bot not an actual Trump Supporter, who seems to have no problems of starting a war with Iran or wants it to happen and always blames Obama admin? i can see they already infecting some internet forums including ATS.


The Obama administration fought a proxy war with Iran. Trump didn't create this mess. I understand you not knowing the law because you're a foreigner but saying the president can't command the armed forces when we are in a state of war is ignorant. Judges are not likely to change this either, most judges consider that sort of action as unconstitutional unless the interpretation is wrong. They typically consider that lawmaking and if the interpretation isn't wrong than you should legally do a constitutional amendment. It can be considered a correct interpretation just for the fact that it has been interpreted that way for a long period of time. In that case the judge is not likely to rule differently unless they put partisan political ambitions above the rule of law. That's why liberal judges can be dangerous for the rule of law

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The Obama administration fought a proxy war with Iran. Trump didn't create this mess.


Trump now owns this mess *****mess that your lying clown started. Its Trump whose the president now and this term could be his last if the clown doesn't do stupid things any further. Like that time when he decided listen to ivanka  and bomb Syria based on fake news.


I will say it again you know whose happy about all this? John Bolton, ISIS,AQ and all those Radical Jihadist groups which the EU and America armed.. I have being going  on to see the reactions on the internet forums and boy holy cow.

Are you nutcases? you are actually cheering an attack in Iraq that a killed general who fought in Syria agaisnt ISIS? and still defend Trump decision to do this?


Whatever happened to "Well Trump is anti war and his going to withdraw our forces in the middle east?" all i am seeing is how excited you guys itchy are for another conflict???!? WTF!




> "That would teach Iran!"
> "Iran Threats are a joke lolz"



Also you realize such unpopular war mongering decisions will likely end his presidency yes?

----------


## nikcers

> Having, in blatant disregard of the law, placed the country in a state of war with another--previously neutral-- country by acting unilaterally, without a Congressional declaration, Trump has already broken the law.  To then say that, because he broke the law, he is obliged to keep on breaking it--as not to break that law further.  Well, I don't know.  I guess thats Beard logic.


2002 Iraq aumf is still in place. 2001 al qaeda aumf is still in place. The deputy commander of the IRGC technically was against us during the iraq war he helped Iraq against us killing Americans. The 2001 aumf is authorized force against Al Qaeda and associated forces. The IRGC has worked with al qaeda before and after the 2001 aumf. He was also part of a terrorist organization under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 ( AEDPA). So technically this was legal, fully predictable unless the IRGC stayed out of Iraq and congress had years to get rid of the authority but didn't. Saying this was illegal is like pretending the last 24 years never happened.

----------


## nikcers

> Trump now owns this mess *****mess that your lying clown started. Its Trump whose the president now and this term could be his last if the clown doesn't do stupid things any further. Like that time when he decided listen to ivanka  and bomb Syria based on fake news.
> 
> 
> I will say it again you know whose happy about all this? John Bolton, ISIS,AQ and all those Radical Jihadist groups which the EU and America armed.. I have being going  on to see the reactions on the internet forums and boy holy cow.
> 
> Are you nutcases? you are actually cheering an attack in Iraq that a killed general who fought in Syria agaisnt ISIS? and still defend Trump decision to do this?
> 
> 
> Whatever happened to "Well Trump is anti war and his going to withdraw our forces in the middle east?" all i am seeing is how excited you guys itchy are for another conflict???!? WTF!
> ...


Lots of Americans are happy about this. They don't like being threatened by foreigners. Even if you don't like it. You don't matter here. You're not American. Americans don't like foreigners bullying them and saying they are going to blow up the whitehouse on social media. The only way to stop a bully is to bully them.

----------


## Warlord

> 2002 Iraq aumf is still in place. 2001 al qaeda aumf is still in place. The deputy commander of the IRGC technically was against us during the iraq war he helped Iraq against us killing Americans. The 2001 aumf is authorized force against Al Qaeda and associated forces. The IRGC has worked with al qaeda before and after the 2001 aumf. He was also part of a terrorist organization under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 ( AEDPA). So technically this was legal, fully predictable unless the IRGC stayed out of Iraq and congress had years to get rid of the authority but didn't. Saying this was illegal is like pretending the last 24 years never happened.


I give up.

The 2001 AUMF is for Al Qeada.  The 2003 AUMF is for Saddam Hussein.  The Constitution supercedes acts of Congress.  Like Ron teaches us, there must be a declaration of war.

----------


## Warlord

> 2002 Iraq aumf is still in place. 2001 al qaeda aumf is still in place. The deputy commander of the IRGC technically was against us during the iraq war he helped Iraq against us killing Americans. The 2001 aumf is authorized force against Al Qaeda and associated forces. The IRGC has worked with al qaeda before and after the 2001 aumf. He was also part of a terrorist organization under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 ( AEDPA). So technically this was legal, fully predictable unless the IRGC stayed out of Iraq and congress had years to get rid of the authority but didn't. Saying this was illegal is like pretending the last 24 years never happened.



Trump also blew up the Iraqi militia leader,. Where was the justification for that?

----------


## nikcers

> I give up.
> 
> The 2001 AUMF is for Al Qeada.  The 2003 AUMF is for Saddam Hussein.  The Constitution supercedes acts of Congress.  Like Ron teaches us, there must be a declaration of war.


There is authorization for military force against Al Qaeda and associated forces and inside the country of Iraq and terrorist organizations. If this teaches us anything its that if we had more Ron Pauls in congress this wouldn't of been legal and probably wouldnt of happened. Instead the congress has played impeachment games and fake investigations against the president to distract the fact that the democrats used a FISA warrant with fabricated evidence to spy on their political opposition. If they weren't trying to cover for the FBI and the Obama administrations attempt to rig the 2016 election maybe they would of done their jobs and not left this legalization of force. Its almost like multiple branches of the government wanted this to happen but wanted to place all the blame on Trump. Lets blame Trump instead of fixing the patriot act and the aumfs and pretend like these laws were never used by the previous presidents because orange man bad. Lets reward the democrats for facilitating this by making them win the 2020 election.

----------


## nikcers

> Trump also blew up the Iraqi militia leader,. Where was the justification for that?


AUMF against Iraq.

----------


## Warlord

> AUMF against Iraq.


The AUMF applies to Saddam Hussein's regime.  I've just read it and it authorizes force to implement the UN resolutions and the sense of Congress that the Iraqi regime at time should be replaced and *'promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;'.

*https://www.congress.gov/107/plaws/p...107publ243.pdf

----------


## nikcers

> The AUMF applies to Saddam Hussein's regime.  I've just read it and it authorizes force to implement the UN resolutions and the sense of Congress that the Iraqi regime at time should be replaced and *'promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;'.
> 
> *https://www.congress.gov/107/plaws/p...107publ243.pdf



SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

    (a) Authorization.--The President is authorized to use the Armed 
Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and 
appropriate in order to--
            (1) defend the national security of the United States 
        against the continuing threat posed by Iraq

----------


## Warlord

> SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
> 
>     (a) Authorization.--The President is authorized to use the Armed 
> Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and 
> appropriate in order to--
>             (1) defend the national security of the United States 
>         against the continuing threat posed by Iraq


It's for Saddam's regime.  There is no threat from Iraq. They have an elected government who are furious with Trump.

----------


## Warlord

i'm rooting for this:




> Iraqs Speaker of Parliament Mohammed al Halbousi vowed to put an end to U.S. presence in Iraq after President Trump ordered airstrikes that killed top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and Iraqs Popular Mobilization Forces boss Mahdi al Muhandis in Baghdad on Thursday.
> 
> Yesterdays targeting of a military commander in Iraqs armed forces near Baghdad International Airport is a flagrant breach of sovereignty and violation of international agreements, a statement from Halbousi read.
> 
> Halbousi added that Iraq must avoid becoming a battlefield or a side in any regional or international conflict.

----------


## jmdrake

> I didn't realize RPF had so many shiite supremacists non interventionist.


 Fixed it for you.

----------


## jmdrake

> Just because someone is shiite that doesnt automatically make them a shiite supremacist. Some shiites think they are the chosen shiites. Those shiites are shiite supremacists. They want to take over the middle east and all of its resources.


For the sake of argument, let's say you are right.  And?  You realize that 9/11 was carried out by *Sunni* Muslims right?  After the U.S. backed Saddam's invasion of Iran, Iran has been paranoid that Sunni countries seek to wipe them and other Shiite Muslim communities out.  And...they aren't exactly wrong on that.  That said, the Shiites are not strong enough to take over the entire region.  The best they can hope for is a stalemate.  But again....the reason I should care is....?

----------


## jmdrake

> It's for Saddam's regime.  There is no threat from Iraq. They have an elected government who are furious with Trump.


There never was a threat from Iraq even when Saddam was in power.  The AUMF is a total garbage document.  I am surprised that  @nikcers is even referencing it.  Then again...nothing surprises me anymore.

----------


## Warlord

> There never was a threat from Iraq even when Saddam was in power.  The AUMF is a total garbage document.  I am surprised that @Nickers is even referencing it.  Then again...nothing surprises me anymore.


I agree, drake.  I dont know why he posts here.  He is so far removed from the teaching's of Ron Paul it's astonishing.

----------


## nikcers

> I agree, drake.  I dont know why he posts here.  He is so far removed from the teaching's of Ron Paul it's astonishing.


If you don't want to debate solutions than i guess you can just throw your hands up and say ILLEGAL. Im going to always side with the idea that if congress passed legislation that updated these authorizations or gotten rid of patriot acts and terrorist laws or repealed these laws we could make that argument honestly. This is what we used to try to do with the tea party when Obama was president and he used all of these same authorizations with legal impunity.

----------


## nikcers

> It's for Saddam's regime.  There is no threat from Iraq. They have an elected government who are furious with Trump.


I posted the text of the bill because thats what matters. It states that the president is authorized to use the Armed forces against Iraq the country..it doesn't specify a specific regime. It says as the president determines to be necessary and appropriate. It doesn't say as warlord determines to be necessary and appropriate. This is why Ron Paul and Rand Paul always argue to repeal the AUMF and do a declaration of war that has a defined mission.

----------


## showpan

Well they just kicked us out of Iraq. The UN globalists will no doubt side with them in condemning the attacks leaving Trump open for more backlash from the dems. Any attacks carried out now by anyone in the middle east against US or coalition troops will fall directly on Trump. Will this be the political suicide the Dems wanted all along. The neoons played Trump and he was too dumb to see it....lol 


*Iraqi Parliament Votes to Expel All American Troops and Submit UN Complaint Against US for Violation of Sovereignty*
"What happened was a political assassination. Iraq cannot accept this."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...int-against-us


*Defense stocks spike after airstrike against Iranian commander*
https://outline.com/fGts6S


*Oil prices soar, stocks fall after deadly US strike in Iraq fuels war fears*
https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/ne...uels-war-fears

----------


## SummersEve

> Well they just kicked us out of Iraq. The UN globalists will no doubt side with them in condemning the attacks leaving Trump open for more backlash from the dems. Any attacks carried out now by anyone in the middle east against US or coalition troops will fall directly on Trump. Will this be the political suicide the Dems wanted all along. The neoons played Trump and he was too dumb to see it....lol 
> 
> 
> *Iraqi Parliament Votes to Expel All American Troops and Submit UN Complaint Against US for Violation of Sovereignty*
> "What happened was a political assassination. Iraq cannot accept this."
> 
> https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...int-against-us
> 
> 
> ...


The MAGA is good, the MAGA is wise. This will bring only strength to the MAGA.

You need to surrender your fears and embrace the MAGA before it is too late.

----------


## showpan

> The MAGA is good, the MAGA is wise. This will bring only strength to the MAGA.
> 
> Surrender your fears and embrace the MAGA before it is too late.


Fck Off neocon shrill

----------


## SummersEve

> Fck Off neocon shrill


Embrace the MAGA and allow your anguished tears to flow.

----------


## Gumba of Liberty

> Well they just kicked us out of Iraq. The UN globalists will no doubt side with them in condemning the attacks leaving Trump open for more backlash from the dems. Any attacks carried out now by anyone in the middle east against US or coalition troops will fall directly on Trump. Will this be the political suicide the Dems wanted all along. The neoons played Trump and he was too dumb to see it....lol 
> 
> 
> *Iraqi Parliament Votes to Expel All American Troops and Submit UN Complaint Against US for Violation of Sovereignty*
> "What happened was a political assassination. Iraq cannot accept this."
> 
> https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...int-against-us
> 
> 
> ...


If we are leaving Iraq for real, Im in 🇺🇸

P.S. 5D Chess Anyone? 😂

----------


## Warlord

> I posted the text of the bill because thats what matters. It states that the president is authorized to use the Armed forces against Iraq the country..it doesn't specify a specific regime. It says as the president determines to be necessary and appropriate. It doesn't say as warlord determines to be necessary and appropriate. This is why Ron Paul and Rand Paul always argue to repeal the AUMF and do a declaration of war that has a defined mission.


As drake posted there is no threat from Iraq so the AUMF is garbage.

----------


## SummersEve

> If we are leaving Iraq for real, I’m in 
> 
> P.S. 5D Chess Anyone? 


We've got like, 50 military bases in the Middle East. Probably no more than 1 or 2 in Iraq.

https://www.americansecurityproject....e-middle-east/

----------


## AngryCanadian

You NeoCons are pathetic and i kind find it funny that  people like Paul Joseph Watson from the Prison planet are still supporting Trump and his decsion to attack in Iraq?
What does Prison planet gain by supporting a clown man child? 






> Yes, it is possible to be against Middle Eastern intervention and escalation with Iran without fawning all over a dead terrorist and a country that routinely massacres its own people.
> 
> It is possible to hold both those views at the same time.
> 87 replies 348 retweets 1,384 likes


Maybe its best if Prison planet sticks to regional Euporean news..

The fact that he even shared tweet from a fake 
Qasem Soleimani twitter account says a lot.
‏

----------


## SummersEve

> You NeoCons are pathetic and i kind find it funny that  people like Paul Joseph Watson from the Prison planet are still supporting Trump and his decsion to attack in Iraq?
> What does Prison planet gain by supporting a clown man child? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe its best if Prison planet sticks to regional Euporean news..


You my good man, need to embrace the MAGA and allow your anguished tears to flow.

----------


## nikcers

> As drake posted there is no threat from Iraq so the AUMF is garbage.


Don't pretend like it doesn't exist than. Demand congress repeal garbage laws or get a new congress that will. Maybe if the military industrial complex has inteligence that says otherwise they can bring it to congress. Otherwise if there is no secret intelligence that says they are a threat than this is all the fault of congress and the American people that let them spend so much money on government programs that enriched special interests that the dollar which is traded and backed by oil was threatened so much by countries in the middle east who threaten to go off the dollar that they had to invade them otherwise there would be economic collapse. The American people overwhelmingly supported the guy who said take the oil to the victor goes the spoils not the guy who said we should balance the budget. At this point the government is to blame but they are basically pawns for the will of the people. Your country has blood on its hands are you going to side with foreigners or your countrymen? Are you going to try to persuade them that there is a better way or sabotage their way of financing their government to waste money so the economy crashes? Where do you stand?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> You my good man, need to embrace the MAGA and allow your anguished tears to flow.


The last time i saw i thought this MEGA crap **** was  America first no? it sure doesn't look like starting a war with Iran is MEGA but don't worry you will feel the consequences of the conflict which your clown eventually.

----------


## SummersEve

> The last time i saw i thought this MEGA crap **** was  America first no? it sure doesn't look like starting a war with Iran is MEGA but don't worry you will feel the consequences of the conflict which your clown eventually.


The bad news is that humans have been at war with each other for thousands of years. Whether it's this one or the next one, MAGA or no MAGA, it matters not. There is too much profit to be had and the profiteers do not care about the bloodshed.

----------


## nikcers

> The bad news is that humans have been at war with each other for thousands of years. Whether it's this one or the next one, MAGA or no MAGA, it matters not. There is too much profit to be had and the profiteers do not care about the bloodshed.


If only Saddam's government had thought to vote to expel all American troops.

----------


## angelatc

> We bought Iraq with blood and treasure. America overwhelmingly supported the guy who said take the oil, to the victor goes the spoils. They could of elected ISIS queen or Rand Paul. Why are you taking Irans side on this against the America that elected Donald Trump?? Are you anti American or a shiite supremacist?? Why do you hate the America that elected Trump so much that you would take Iran's side when they are trying to steal American treasure?


OK, you are failing miserably with your attempt at satire. Just go away.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> OK, you are failing miserably with your attempt at satire. Just go away.


Trump admin killed envoy to Iraq.



> Iraq PM asks #QassemSoleimani to come and talk to him and give him the answer of his mediation, Trump &co assassinate an envoy at the airport


Looks like Trump and Co were learning how to assassinate from their Saudi,Israeli buddies.

----------


## Warlord

> OK, you are failing miserably with your attempt at satire. Just go away.


You could always ignore him, Angela. Have you ignored anyone on here? I haven't...

----------


## nikcers

> OK, you are failing miserably with your attempt at satire. Just go away.


I really wish it was satire... Im going to side with my country and everything I know and love over foreigners though.

----------


## nikcers

> You could always ignore him, Angela. Have you ignored anyone on here? I haven't...


I am not going to pretend the msm narrative for the wars in the middle east on Ron Paul forums is real. I heard the truth from Ron Paul for the wars in the middle east. Why do you think he advocates for the gold standard or competing currencies and says America can't seperate monetary policy from foreign policy because they are related. Pretending the msm narrative is real is an insult to everything Ron Paul has done and stood for over the years.

----------


## angelatc

> Fck Off neocon shrill





> The last time i saw i thought this MEGA crap **** was  America first no? it sure doesn't look like starting a war with Iran is MEGA but don't worry you will feel the consequences of the conflict which your clown eventually.





> You could always ignore him, Angela. Have you ignored anyone on here? I haven't...


I sometimes put people on ignore temporarily when they are making me obsess.    I hate the fact that we're seeing members from 2007 reemerge, and they're coming back to a place where Sword has control of 90% of the threads, Zippy trolling from the left, and people openly supporting our involvement in the Middle East.    (Insert that Homer Simpson opening the door and walking right back out gif.)

We all used to fight over all other issues, but the wars were the one place we agreed.   Now we don't even have that.

PS:  This new guys moniker is "Summers Eve"  so I assume he's just trolling.  Of course, he will be welcomed here, but those of us brave enough to tell him to $#@! Off are tempting the ban hammer.

----------


## Warlord

> I am not going to pretend the msm narrative for the wars in the middle east on Ron Paul forums is real. I heard the truth from Ron Paul for the wars in the middle east. Why do you think he advocates for the gold standard or competing currencies and says America can't seperate monetary policy from foreign policy because they are related. Pretending the msm narrative is real is an insult to everything Ron Paul has done and stood for over the years.


 
Why don't you LISTEN to Ron, then? The videos are on the front page. He is dead against this intervention and points out that its based on lies,

----------


## nikcers

> Why don't you LISTEN to Ron, then? The videos are on the front page. He is dead against this intervention and points out that its based on lies,


It is based on the msm narrative which is a lie. How is that different? Its the same information differently stated. He has said it a million ways in 30 years.

----------


## nikcers

> I sometimes put people on ignore temporarily when they are making me obsess.    I hate the fact that we're seeing members from 2007 reemerge, and they're coming back to a place where Sword has control of 90% of the threads, Zippy trolling from the left, and people openly supporting our involvement in the Middle East.    (Insert that Homer Simpson opening the door and walking right back out gif.)
> 
> We all used to fight over all other issues, but the wars were the one place we agreed.   Now we don't even have that.
> 
> PS:  This new guys moniker is "Summers Eve"  so I assume he's just trolling.  Of course, he will be welcomed here, but those of us brave enough to tell him to $#@! Off are tempting the ban hammer.


There is no one advocating for monetary policy change that would be required for foreign policy change. Changing foreign policy without changing monetary policy is suicide. If you want to experience mass poverty and breadlines thats fine.

----------


## Warlord

> It is based on the msm narrative which is a lie. How is that different? Its the same information differently stated. He has said it a million ways in 30 years.


Oh dear.. I give up until you go and watch the videos on the front page and wake up.

----------


## nikcers

> Oh dear.. I give up until you go and watch the videos on the front page and wake up.


I have watched thousands of ron paul videos.  Watching Ron Paul videos is where i found out the wars in the middle east were based on those governments planning to get rid of the dollar by threatening to stop trading oil for dollars. Your country spent trillions in the middle east to make sure dollars were backed by oil. We can't take that back without giving the spoils of war to Iran who has vowed to make sure dollars aren't backed by oil. So your solution is implode the economy well your countrymen voted for the guy who said take the oil to the victor goes the spoils. The alternative plan was ISIS queen who would fund proxy wars to contain Iran. We can either try to get judges nominated who will rule some of these things the liberals want as unconstitutional and try to send better people to washington who will obey the constitution or let it get worse and make the bills the liberals rack up cost more and require more intervention and blood on our hands.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

*  Iraq's Parliament votes to expel U.S. military*Sunday, January 5, 2020
Lawmakers approved a resolution asking the  Iraqi  government to end the agreement under which Washington sent forces  more  than four years ago to help in the fight against ISIS.

Related
ISIS's Rise Choreographed in Israel

----------


## showpan

> I sometimes put people on ignore temporarily when they are making me obsess.    I hate the fact that we're seeing members from 2007 reemerge, and they're coming back to a place where Sword has control of 90% of the threads, Zippy trolling from the left, and people openly supporting our involvement in the Middle East.    (Insert that Homer Simpson opening the door and walking right back out gif.)
> 
> We all used to fight over all other issues, but the wars were the one place we agreed.   Now we don't even have that.
> 
> PS:  This new guys moniker is "Summers Eve"  so I assume he's just trolling.  Of course, he will be welcomed here, but those of us brave enough to tell him to $#@! Off are tempting the ban hammer.


I will place him on ignore....lol....would hate to get banned form a Liberty forum for taking the liberty in telling someone what I think of them telling me to conform.

----------


## showpan

> Lots of Americans are happy about this. They don't like being threatened by foreigners. Even if you don't like it. You don't matter here. You're not American. Americans don't like foreigners bullying them and saying they are going to blow up the whitehouse on social media. The only way to stop a bully is to bully them.


Lots of Americans are idiots. It shows in how they vote. Lots of Americans are also narcissistic morons.  They bully others and then call them the bully when they do something terribly wrong. That's how a narcissist operates.

----------


## nikcers

> Lots of Americans are idiots. It shows in how they vote. Lots of Americans are also narcissistic morons.  They bully others and then call them the bully when they do something terribly wrong. That's how a narcissist operates.


Lets be honest about this who fills the power vacuum if America leaves the middle east?? What countries control the opposition to America in the middle east and how do those countries treat their own population and how would they treat the local population if there was no American opposition?

----------


## devil21

> Embrace the MAGA and allow your anguished tears to flow.


That didn't take long for you to create yet another name after being banned.  jamesiv simmerdown

Are you the new fire11?

----------


## devil21

> I have watched thousands of ron paul videos.  Watching Ron Paul videos is where i found out the wars in the middle east were based on those governments planning to get rid of the dollar by threatening to stop trading oil for dollars. Your country spent trillions in the middle east to make sure dollars were backed by oil. We can't take that back without giving the spoils of war to Iran who has vowed to make sure dollars aren't backed by oil. So your solution is implode the economy well your countrymen voted for the guy who said take the oil to the victor goes the spoils. The alternative plan was ISIS queen who would fund proxy wars to contain Iran. We can either try to get judges nominated who will rule some of these things the liberals want as unconstitutional and try to send better people to washington who will obey the constitution or let it get worse and make the bills the liberals rack up cost more and require more intervention and blood on our hands.


Where you get misdirected is that the globalist bankers WANT the dollar dropped.  They just want to hold it off until other objectives are completed, such as using the US military and proxy forces like ISIS to clear the path (One Belt One Road) for their next host's (China) global dominance.  Isolating America on the world stage, which prompts other countries to present an excuse to drop the dollar, is a big part of their plan.  Nothing is as cut and dry as the media and the politician mouthpieces portray.  Globalist bankers do NOT care about Americans nor do they care about the dollar, so comments about defending the dollar are short-sighted.  People and currencies are merely tools to be used toward global banking dominance (control) on behalf of London and ultimately Rome (see my sig), hence why most of the faces we see out front pushing for these invasions are Jesuit CFR members.

----------


## Ender

> Lets be honest about this who fills the power vacuum if America leaves the middle east?? What countries control the opposition to America in the middle east and how do those countries treat their own population and how would they treat the local population if there was no American opposition?


Well, to be honest, why is that any of our business?

----------


## nikcers

> Well, to be honest, why is that any of our business?


Not willing to go there huh? Not even willing to even have the rhetorical debate over what would happen?

----------


## showpan

> Lets be honest about this who fills the power vacuum if America leaves the middle east?? What countries control the opposition to America in the middle east and how do those countries treat their own population and how would they treat the local population if there was no American opposition?


Who the $#@! cares. This country was founded on the belief that we have a right to govern ourselves without foreign interference and that other countries have a right to govern themselves without OUR interference. Yes, lets be honest then. Our government has been taken over by corporate fascists (many of whom are puppets for foreigners) who believe they should control the worlds resources including it's people solely for momentary gain and power. The plutonomy does not care about human life. They believe there are two types of people. The haves and the have nots. There are around 300 families on this planet that truly believe they are the "haves" and that the have nots should simply lock step in line to whatever they wish because they are too stupid to survve without them...lol... In one way, an economic collapse would be horrible for most of the have nots. In another way, it would be great as it would surely force the have nots to finally stand up and take back what others have stolen. Their right to live without interference and without interfering. My only hope is that the haves do not create a nuclear winter on this planet before that happens. I would love nothing more to see the haves try to survive in a world where their money is exposed for what it truly is....worthless paper printed with the blood of the have nots.

----------


## Ender

> Not willing to go there huh? Not even willing to even have the rhetorical debate over what would happen?


You willing to discuss how the US created most of the problems now in the ME? How about the 1953 coup/overthrow of Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh because he wanted to give back to the Iranian people their own resources?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Lets be honest about this who fills the power vacuum if America leaves the middle east?? What countries control the opposition to America in the middle east and how do those countries treat their own population and how would they treat the local population if there was no American opposition?


To be hoesnt why are you Americans still militarily occupying Japan and forcing Japan to change its culture? who are you Americans to judge other countries cultures or their traditions?

And also why are you Americans still doing in the Balkans and Kosovo? maybe you Americans should return Kosovo back to Serbia? on whose right was it that gave Americans the right to take it over Kosovo and steal it for Albanians? and build a base while your still on it?

----------


## jon4liberty

This has been in the works. The false flags.  The harshest sanctions. War for Israel

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The information that #Iran Qassem Soleimani had an appointment with the PM in Baghdad and came to #Iraq to meet him the next day with established appointment, following a request of Trump for mediation, has been read to all MPs today by the #Iraq/i PM himself.

----------


## nikcers

> Who the $#@! cares. This country was founded on the belief that we have a right to govern ourselves without foreign interference and that other countries have a right to govern themselves without OUR interference. Yes, lets be honest then. Our government has been taken over by corporate fascists (many of whom are foreigners) who believe they should control the worlds resources including it's people solely for momentary gain and power. The plutonomy does not care about human life. They believe there are two types of people. The haves and the have nots. There are around 300 families on this planet that truly believe they are the "haves" and that the have nots should simply lock step in line to whatever they wish because they are too stupid to survve without them...lol... In one way, an economic collapse would be horrible for most of the have nots. In another way, it would be great as it would surely force the have nots to finally stand up and take back what others have stolen. Their right to live without interference and without interfering. My only hope is that the haves do not create a nuclear winter on this planet before that happens. I would love nothing more to see the haves try to survive in a world where their money is exposed as what it truly is....worthless paper printed with the blood of the have nots.


Who cares is a good argument im ok with that. As long as you admit it would be worse for the local population and that you don't care about the local population thats fine with me. On the other hand though since American monetary and fiscal policy is the reason why we are in the middle east I care about solutions that results in fewer American deaths if we aren't going to change monetary policy and go to a more constitutional government we are going to have a civil war and lots of Americans will die and there will be martial law. That means that there won't be a constitutional government and it will require a bigger civil war to go back to a constitutional republic if we could ever make it there again.

----------


## showpan

> As long as you admit it would be worse for the local population and that you don't care about the local population thats fine with me.


haha....I will adamantly admit that other countries would be better off if we minded our own business. If you truly wanted fewer American deaths as you so claim, then you would advocate the immediate withdrawal of ALL our troops from foreign soil and stop trying to forcibly change other governments into THEIR corporate friendly ones. Do you actually believe your life really means something to the masters you defend....lol

----------


## nikcers

> You willing to discuss how the US created most of the problems now in the ME? How about the 1953 coup/overthrow of Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh because he wanted to give back to the Iranian people their own resources?


You mean to say we overthrown a government that was being controlled by a foreign government and then a different government overthrown that government and now that foreign government controls Iran but America is the cause of all the problems in the world Ender. It would be impossible to fathom that Iran is being controlled by a foreign government and not by the local population.

----------


## nikcers

> haha....I will adamantly admit that other countries would be better off if we minded our own business. If you truly wanted fewer American deaths as you so claim, then you would advocate the immediate withdrawal of ALL our troops from foreign soil and stop trying to forcibly change other governments into THEIR corporate friendly ones. Do you actually believe your life really means something to the masters you defend....lol


My life has more opportunities and freedoms with a constitutional republic. My life isnt worth anything without one. If your argument is that it doesn't exist than i will fight to make it exist. I will make it reality.

----------


## Anti Globalist

I could care less who fills the power gap if the US leaves the Middle East.  We've spent too much money there and lost so many lives.  Time to pack up and go home.

----------


## nikcers

> I could care less who fills the power gap if the US leaves the Middle East.  We've spent too much money there and lost so many lives.  Time to pack up and go home.


Ok how do we fund liberal government and unfunded government liabilities? Is the democrats plan fine with you? Getting rid of the 2nd amendment,  then taking away liberal government and private property through martial law or funding proxy wars to destabilize countries in the middle east? Or are you suggesting we change fiscal and monetary policy and reduce government spending through changing the role of government? I like the second option myself but its not a political possibility... Is the first option worth the cost?

----------


## tommyrp12



----------


## nikcers

> The Muhllas were put in power after the coups of that 1953 coup and CIA admitted it.


A foreign government was in control of Iran before the coup

----------


## AngryCanadian

CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup 




> The CIA has publicly admitted for the first time that it was behind the notorious 1953 coup against Iran's democratically elected prime minister Mohammad Mosaddeq, in documents that also show how the British government tried to block the release of information about its own involvement in his overthrow.





> "The military coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and his National Front cabinet was carried out under CIA direction as an act of US foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government," reads a previously excised section of an internal CIA history titled The Battle for Iran.
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> 
> The documents, published on the archive's website under freedom of information laws, describe in detail how the US – with British help – engineered the coup, codenamed TPAJAX by the CIA and Operation Boot by Britain's MI6.


Maybe you two should learn from history?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> A foreign government was in control of Iran before the coup


A foreign government  which you Americans never liked and always wanted to bomb in the first place. You have no say in these such matters you arent saints. What you Yankees are doing in Iraq right now is no different.

You arent giving Iraqis any real democary or freedom its only democary as long they agree with you the occupiers. That is what your DEMOCRACY IS.

A fake Democracy.

Trump bombing on Iranian General? based on what? hmm maybe FAKE NEWS? you know what i will be realistic i don't see Trump getting his second term at this rate.

----------


## nikcers

> CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you two should learn from history?


The history of Iran being controlled by a foreign government betore the 1953 coup?

----------


## jmdrake

> How much oil could we buy with the money we have spent / are spending on this nonsense


Greg Palasts "Armed Madhouse" explains what's really going on.  We didn't go after Saddam to get his oil.  We went after him to get him to *stop* producing oil and keep the price jacked up.  It's all about the petro-dollar.

----------


## nikcers

> A foreign government  which you Americans never liked and always wanted to bomb in the first place. You have no say in these such matters you arent saints.


We aren't the cause of the Iranian local population not being in control of their own government either.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The history of Iran being controlled by a foreign government betore the 1953 coup?


So what your saying your completely ok with CIA/America puppets controlling countries in the middle east countries over Russia or other countries? you remind me very much like Sen McCain...

Its clear you Americans are after complete dominance in the middle east not bringing any actual democary or freedom. I will say it again your trump lied about everything, lied about getting US troops out of the middle east, Syria and lied about finishing the border wall.

As for his so called ban on migrants? why is your manchild targeting only middle eastern countries and some Asian countries but not actual third world countries?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> We aren't the cause of the Iranian local population not being in control of their own government either.


Let me be very clear you Americans wont be the world police force nor will you. You will be kicked out of the Middle East and Syria the easy way or the hard way.  No one in middle east let alone Iranians want to be manipulated and controlled by America or Britain. For their geopolitics dominance.

Even in the Balkans yes and in Croatia they know what you Americans want. Even in the American century project, document states about how America wants to expand its complete geopolitics dominance over its rivals.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Maybe there is a reason why so Many Black Africans are fleeing Africa into Europe and that is because you Americans are doing shadow wars, proxy wars within Africa agaisnt their war lords,sects,politicians,criminals to make them fight agaisnt each other for resources rather ironic no?

Whatever or not those African migrants in Europe are actual migrants or not one thing is for sure, human traffickers and slavers in Africa, Middle East are very happy right now to export them.

----------


## nikcers

> Let me be very clear you Americans wont be the world police force nor will you. You will be kicked out of the Middle East and Syria the easy way or the hard way.  No one in middle east let alone Iranians want to be manipulated and controlled by America or Britain. For their geopolitics dominance.
> 
> Even in the Balkans yes and in Croatia they know what you Americans want. Even in the American century project, document states about how America wants to expand its complete geopolitics dominance over its rivals.


LOL Iran will always  be a puppet state that oppresses their local population. Their treasure plundered and history erased with it.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> LOL Iran will always  be a puppet state that oppresses their local population. Their treasure plundered and history erased with it.





> *be a puppet state that oppresses their local population*


You Americans have no rights to speak for other nations or Iranian local populations when your own country cant even fix your own problems at home or fix your broken infrastructures which Trump promised to do but failed to delivery.

You guys are losing the hearts and minds in Afghanistan to the same Jihadists which you armed agaisnt the Russians.

You are using the kurds in Syria as you are using the Kurds agaisnt Iraqis for your national interests (Oil) but one thing is clear you Americans will never give Kurds any interdependent state.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> LOL Iran will always  be a puppet state that oppresses their local population. Their treasure plundered and history erased with it.


Are you suggesting that the Iranian people would rather prefer an MEK rule? or an American puppet? yeah i can see how that went well in Libya and Iraq haha

----------


## nikcers

> You Americans have no rights to speak for other nations or Iranian local populations when your own country cant even fix your own problems at home or fix your broken infrastructures which Trump promised to do but failed to delivery.
> 
> You guys are losing the hearts and minds in Afghanistan to the same Jihadists which you armed agaisnt the Russians.
> 
> You are using the kurds in Syria as you are using the Kurds agaisnt Iraqis for your national interests (Oil) but one thing is clear you Americans will never give Kurds any interdependent state.


You mean the Russians right? They are the ones recruiting kurds

----------


## AngryCanadian

> You mean the Russians right? They are the ones recruiting kurds


Ah so its now Russians recruiting kurds? haha are you serious?

----------


## nikcers

> Ah so its now Russians recruiting kurds? haha are you serious?


Yep. Unless you are implying Russia is a puppet state of the United States.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Yep. Unless you are implying Russia is a puppet state of the United States.



Your failing at your trolling, i have seen such posting on other forums are you this desperate to defend your master Trump? because you know he screwed up in the middle east? Trump sure knows how to buy bot users.

I thought Trump was anti war? anti regime change? Hillary lock her up? 
I will give you my two cents bot Trump i will admit now the US economy is doing fine for now but Trump could make it worse by starting a conflict or further pushing the markets by hitting Iran or its interests in the region.

Trump could in theory win the re election but as long he doesn't escalate things or post on his twitter like a manchild posting memes of American flag.

There many Americans and people in the world who don't want another war while you Americans arent doing well in afghanistan.Trump was about to start another war while he was just claiming that America can win a unwinnable war in afghanistan.




One wrong doesn't make one right.

----------


## nikcers

> Your failing at your trolling, i have seen such posting on other forums are you this desperate to defend your master Trump? because you know he screwed up in the middle east? Trump sure knows how to buy bot users.
> 
> I thought Trump was anti war? anti regime change? Hillary lock her up?


Trump said take the oil. He was anti ISIS. He said Obama created ISIS. No wife of a president can be prosecuted for crime. Not without a political revolution against the deep state and that would take overwhelming public support that he doesn't have yet.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Trump said take the oil. He was anti ISIS. He said Obama created ISIS. No wife of a president can be prosecuted for crime. Not without a political revolution against the deep state and that would take overwhelming public support that he doesn't have yet.


You know whose happy about the Iranian General Death in Iraq? ISIS and its leaders in Syria,Iraq you Trump bots and supporters "supposedly" are now blaming Iran and Iranian general to be behind Libya's benghazi without justification. They are nothing but accusations.  The same how Daddy Bush accused Saddam of being part or somehow Saddam was with AQ.





> Not without a political revolution against the deep state


If Trump was agaisnt this so called Deep State, why he has brought in the worst of worst people like John Bolton in his admin then?  



> He said Obama created ISIS


And now Trump is helping ISIS in the region. Iran and its militias fought agaisnt ISIS in Iraq and Syria did you know that? FOX News seems to not report on these such news.

Of course Trump is taking the credit for defeating ISIS on something that the Russians and Iranians have being doing for two years. The American gov would never credit Russia or Iran to give them credit to stop ISIS.

----------


## Schifference

> I sometimes put people on ignore temporarily when they are making me obsess.    I hate the fact that we're seeing members from 2007 reemerge, and they're coming back to a place where Sword has control of 90% of the threads, Zippy trolling from the left, and people openly supporting our involvement in the Middle East.    (Insert that Homer Simpson opening the door and walking right back out gif.)
> 
> We all used to fight over all other issues, but the wars were the one place we agreed.   Now we don't even have that.
> 
> PS:  This new guys moniker is "Summers Eve"  so I assume he's just trolling.  Of course, he will be welcomed here, but those of us brave enough to tell him to $#@! Off are tempting the ban hammer.


Summers Eve is a douche.

----------


## nikcers

> You know whose happy about the Iranian General Death in Iraq? ISIS and its leaders in Syria,Iraq you Trump bots and supporters "supposedly" are now blaming Iran and Iranian general to be behind Libya's benghazi without justification. They are nothing but accusations.  The same how Daddy Bush accused Saddam of being part or somehow Saddam was with AQ.
> 
> 
> 
> If Trump was agaisnt this so called Deep State, why he has brought in the worst of worst people like John Bolton in his admin then?  
> 
> 
> And now Trump is helping ISIS in the region.


John Bolton was political mutually assured destruction. He has ambitions to run for president. He was able to watch him more closely with him in his cabinet.

----------


## nikcers

Trump isn't helping ISIS by defeating a common enemy. That's doublespeak. Trump's administration stopped arming ISIS. Obamas administration armed ISIS.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> John Bolton was political mutually assured destruction. He has ambitions to run for president. He was able to watch him more closely with him in his cabinet.





> *John Bolton was political mutually assured destruction.*


This is the same John Bolton who is praising Trump for doing the right action in Iraq on twitter he basically said this was first right step in regime change agaisnt Iran. He was very happy about what Trump did.

This action that Trump did in the middle east and in Iraq will hurt Trump chances of getting the anti war crowd for his re election.. The anti war crowd is now bigger then the pro war charade crowd.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Trump isn't helping ISIS by defeating a common enemy. That's doublespeak. Trump's administration stopped arming ISIS. Obamas administration armed ISIS.


I am sorry what? are you saying Iran is now a common enemy? are you going to accuse Iran of helping ISIS now?




> Trump's administration stopped arming ISIS


ISIS and AQ groups are now growing in Yemen. So Whose stopping ISIS in Yemen Saudi Arabia?

----------


## nikcers

> I am sorry what? are you saying Iran is now a common enemy? are you going to accuse Iran of helping ISIS now?
> 
> 
> ISIS and AQ groups are now growing in Yemen. So Whose stopping ISIS in Yemen Saudi Arabia?


Iran is an enemy. Their deputy general of their IRGC literally posted a picture to social media of him blowing up the whitehouse that was captioned they will crush America.

----------


## nikcers

Saudi Arabia is bombing the $#@! out of Yemen with training and bombs they buy fron the UK

----------


## Krugminator2

> *Pompeos Big Lie on Iran*
> By Jacob G. Hornberger
> 
> The Future of Freedom Foundation
> 
> July 17, 2019
> 
> https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/07/...g-lie-on-iran/



Jacob Hornberger is just an America hater. He's no libertarian. He glorifies totalitarian and Marxist regimes and morally equates the United States to them. He really is loathsome.

The United States is morally superior to Iran, Chile and whatever regime Hornberger wants to apologize for.  Period.   The United States is far from perfect but there is pretty simple litmus test of United States superiority. No one immigrates from America to the $#@!holes  Hornberger equates to the USA. Lots of people go the other way.

That isn't a comment on the strategic wisdom of United States actions. But killing terrorists and overthrowing actual totalitarian regimes is ALWAYS morally justified.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Saudi Arabia is bombing the $#@! out of Yemen with training and bombs they buy fron the UK


And has Dear Leader Trump stopped Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia is bombing the SHIA POPULATIONS in Yemen. Who were protesting for civil rights. Nothing to do with Iran but Iran decided to help out its own people in Yemen and America calls this move by meddling? but America helping massacring civilians in Yemen is called what again?

----------


## tommyrp12

"Latest situation in Iran United States Planes in Iran. Iran Us War" Is the title on the video according to google translate.

----------


## nikcers

> And has Dear Leader Trump stopped Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia is bombing the SHIA POPULATIONS in Yemen. Who were protesting for civil rights. Nothing to do with Iran but Iran decided to help out its own people in Yemen and America calls this move by meddling? but America helping massacring civilians in Yemen is called what again?


America hasn't been part of Britian since 1776.

----------


## Ender

> Jacob Hornberger is just an America hater. He's no libertarian. He glorifies totalitarian and Marxist regimes and morally equates the United States to them. He really is loathsome.
> 
> The United States is morally superior to Iran, Chile and whatever regime Hornberger wants to apologize for.  Period.   The United States is far from perfect but there is pretty simple litmus test of United States superiority. No one immigrates from America to the $#@!holes  Hornberger equates to the USA. Lots of people go the other way.
> 
> That isn't a comment on the strategic wisdom of United States actions. But killing terrorists and overthrowing actual totalitarian regimes is ALWAYS morally justified.


You mean the guy that writes for the Ron Paul Institute & travels with Ron to speak at many freedom caucuses?

Right.......

Maybe you ought find out WTF you're talking about.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Dept of Homeland Sec issued order to CBP to “report” & detain anyone w Iranian heritage entering US who is deemed potentially suspicious or “adversarial,” regardless of citizenship. CBP at the Peace Arch Border Crossing has detained 60 Americans returning from concert in Canada


Yup i dont see Trump winning this year. Its possible but arresting Iranians of anyone being suspicious regardless of citizenship? why Iran not Saudi Arabia? other countries? seems weird ya?

----------


## Krugminator2

> You mean the guy that writes for the Ron Paul Institute & travels with Ron to speak at many freedom caucuses?


Yeah. That guy. Also the guy who is the Salvador Allende apologist. https://www.fff.org/2015/08/10/death-cias-man-chile/

He never wastes an opportunity to bash the US while praising an evil regime.

Also Ron employs a lot of nitwits. For example the people who think the US shouldn't support the Hong Kong protesters.  http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ldom-is-heard/
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ir-last-stage/

----------


## AngryCanadian

Prison Planet Watson Making Excuses for the Iranian air strike.



> The same people who try to cancel celebrities for decade old homophobic tweets are out on the streets protesting in favor of a regime that has literally tortured and executed thousands of gay people.
> 
> Whatever you think of the Soleimani strike, this is some pretty thick irony.


Rather Ironic i see Republicans whining about gays being killed in Iran but its ok when Saudi Arabia does it? i haven't seen anyone whining or com planing when Saudi Arabia has done more then Iran...

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Yeah. That guy. Also the guy who is the Salvador Allende apologist. https://www.fff.org/2015/08/10/death-cias-man-chile/
> 
> He never wastes an opportunity to bash the US while praising an evil regime.
> 
> Also Ron employs a lot of nitwits. For example the people who think the US shouldn't support the Hong Kong protesters.  http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ldom-is-heard/
> http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ir-last-stage/


You mean those nitwit Hong Kong protesters that were clearly paid off by the American Gov and Trump admin? i mean don't you remember the frog meme they used? waving the pro Biritsh imperialist flag?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You mean those nitwit Hong Kong protesters that were clearly paid off by the American Gov and Trump admin? i mean don't you remember the frog meme they used? waving the pro Biritsh imperialist flag?


AngryChinaman is angry.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> AngryChinaman is angry.


Ah back to the usual insults and name calling? are you aware of Regen's cold war era NED movements which resulted in the fall of the Soviet Union? Well NED is what funds such stupid protests who clearly get paid and Americans want to Punish China over its own territory? lol pathetic.


Maybe Mexico should call for Russia to assist getting their occupied states back?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> AngryChinaman is angry.


On the other hand...

Shouldn't you be worried about whats going on in your own country before thinking on taking over others like in the middle east?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Ah back to the usual insults and name calling? are you aware of Regen's cold war era NED movements which resulted in the fall of the Soviet Union? Well NED is what funds such stupid protests who clearly get paid and Americans want to Punish China over its own territory? lol pathetic.
> 
> 
> Maybe Mexico should call for Russia to assist getting their occupied states back?


You really wish the USSR hadn't fallen, don't you?

ChiComs gonna ChiCom, liberty is what the party says it is and you should love Big Brother for it.

----------


## nikcers

> On the other hand...
> 
> Shouldn't you be worried about whats going on in your own country before thinking on taking over others like in the middle east?


Says the french guy commenting on American politcs

----------


## Swordsmyth

> On the other hand...
> 
> Shouldn't you be worried about whats going on in your own country before thinking on taking over others like in the middle east?


I can walk and chew gum at the same time and I don't advocate for American intervention anywhere.

But the people of Hong Kong have a right to resist communist tyrants.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I can walk and chew gum at the same time and I don't advocate for American intervention anywhere.
> 
> But the people of Hong Kong have a right to resist communist tyrants.





> But the people of Hong Kong have a right to resist communist tyrants.


Regime Change Regime Change is coming to China,via Hong Kong Sen McCain knew that such protests would had happened either way..  People like you had being claiming that Russia and China would fall first economically but you are both wrong its America which is going to first.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Looks Dictator Trump hates the Iraqi Freedom and Democracy unless your a puppet to America and a good slave puppet to your master. This is why Poland loves being a good puppet.


Trump administration tried to stop Iraqi parliament's vote on expelling US troops: report  

The Trump administration tried to stop an Iraqi vote to expel the U.S. military from the country after an American airstrike killed top Iranian military commander Gen. Qassem Soleimani, Axios reported Sunday. 



> Two U.S. officials and an Iraqi government official familiar with the situation told Axios that the Trump administration tried to persuade top Iraqi officials to kill the parliamentary effort.
> Iraq's parliament reportedly voted Sunday to approve of the expulsion of the U.S. military following last week’s attack that killed Soleimani. 
> A U.S. official familiar with the effort told Axios that expelling the U.S. military from Iraq "would be inconvenient for us, but it would be catastrophic for Iraq."

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Regime Change Regime Change is coming to China,via Hong Kong Sen McCain knew that such protests would had happened either way..  People like you had being claiming that Russia and China would fall first economically but you are both wrong its America which is going to first.


Regime change in China would be a good thing if it came from the people of China and China will collapse soon from its own economic stupidity.

----------


## Krugminator2

> You mean those nitwit Hong Kong protesters that were clearly paid off by the American Gov and Trump admin? i mean don't you remember the frog meme they used? waving the pro Biritsh imperialist flag?


Being under British rule worked quite well. It is the reason Hong Kong is Hong Kong. I would bet almost every person in Hong Kong who has skin in the game would prefer to go back to being ruled by the benevolent neglect if Britain.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> "But it's also what would happen to them financially if they allowed Iran to take advantage of their economy to such an extent that they would fall under the sanctions that are on Iran," the official added. "We don't want to see that. We're trying very hard to work to have that not happen."


Sad to see Kurds on the same side as the Saudis with Sunnis. Kurds still foolish believe they will a gain. Which it will never happen.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Being under British rule worked quite well. It is the reason Hong Kong is Hong Kong. I would bet almost every person in Hong Kong who has skin in the game would prefer to go back to being ruled by the benevolent neglect if Britain.





> Being under British rule worked quite well


Yes if it worked so well in Hong Kong i am sure it worked quite well in India to right?




> I would bet almost every person in Hong Kong who has skin in the game would prefer to go back to being ruled by the benevolent neglect if Britain


Maybe those people in HK should ask every Indianan from India on their take how the British empire treated their people eh? when it comes to treating the people the British treated their guests wrongfully.

It was the British empire if i recall that also was responsible for some of war crimes during the war for Hong Kong. Hong Kong does not belong to the west let alone Britian.

Being independent usual means you became a state puppet to either America or Britain, no difference from Kosovo.

----------


## AngryCanadian

Knowing my history i am sure people of India would have loved to return to the British rule era to right? given by your logic then? those who wave the British imperialist era flag either ignore or forget the war crimes which the British empire were responsible for.

----------


## Krugminator2

> Ah back to the usual insults and name calling? are you aware of Regen's cold war era NED movements which resulted in the fall of the Soviet Union? Well NED is what funds such stupid protests who clearly get paid and Americans want to Punish China over its own territory? lol pathetic.
> 
> 
> Maybe Mexico should call for Russia to assist getting their occupied states back?


So you don't think the collapse of the Soviet Union was a good thing?

The Soviet Union was a direct threat to human freedom everywhere. The US should have done everything possible to end Communism. That isn't incongruent with non-intervention at all. They came close to nuking the US in Cuba. Pacifism is just as evil as neoconservatism.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> So you don't think the collapse of the Soviet Union was a good thing?
> 
> The Soviet Union was a direct threat to human freedom everywhere. The US should have done everything possible to end Communism. That isn't incongruent with non-intervention at all. They came close to nuking the US in Cuba. Pacifism is just as evil as neoconservatism.


The USSR was using every means available to destroy us and turn us into a communist country, bringing down the USSR was an act of self defense.

----------


## Krugminator2

> Knowing my history i am sure people of India would have loved to return to the British rule era to right? given by your logic then? those who wave the British imperialist era flag either ignore or forget the war crimes which the British empire were responsible for.


India is a $#@!hole. Even with their poor treatment by GB in WWII it is a certainty they would be less of a $#@!hole today if Britain held onto power. Source: Milton Friedman speaking on the topic

----------


## AngryCanadian

> So you don't think the collapse of the Soviet Union was a good thing?
> 
> The Soviet Union was a direct threat to human freedom everywhere. The US should have done everything possible to end Communism. That isn't incongruent with non-intervention at all. They came close to nuking the US in Cuba. Pacifism is just as evil as neoconservatism.






> So you don't think the collapse of the Soviet Union was a good thing?


I am sure for NeoCons, Globalists like yourselves making the Russians weak and in poverty is clearly and was a good thing right? like that time when you Americans installed Boris Yeltsin to rule Russia?






> The Soviet Union was a direct threat to human freedom everywhere. The


What America has became is no different from the Soviet Union. You Americans use threats, blackmails in order to gain what you want and Trump is proving just that.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I am sure for NeoCons, Globalists like yourselves making the Russians weak and in poverty is clearly and was a good thing right? like that time when you Americans installed Boris Yeltsin to rule Russia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What America has became is no different from the Soviet Union. You Americans use threats, blackmails in order to gain what you want and Trump is proving just that.


The USSR was using every means available to destroy us and turn us into a  communist country, bringing down the USSR was an act of self defense. 						

America has its faults but it is nowhere near as bad as the USSR or Red China who took up the fight to destroy and communize us when the USSR fell, destroying China would be an act of self defense and a gift to the world.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> India is a $#@!hole. Even with their poor treatment by GB in WWII it is a certainty they would be less of a $#@!hole today if Britain held onto power. Source: Milton Friedman speaking on the topic


If The British empire was allowed to exist further into the modern era what they did to India they would have done the same in Hong Kong but they decided to use HK as a weapon agaisnt China.

No difference what you are doing in the Balkans while you are using Kosovo and the Albanians agaisnt the Serbs.

When it comes to conflicts you Americans have found a new way for nations with minorities you found a way to start a war.
_Sectarianism_

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The USSR was using every means available to destroy us and turn us into a  communist country, bringing down the USSR was an act of self defense. 						
> 
> America has its faults but it is nowhere near as bad as the USSR or Red China who took up the fight to destroy and communize us when the USSR fell, destroying China would be an act of self defense and a gift to the world.






> America has its faults but it is nowhere near as bad as the USSR or Red China


America is nowhere bad if your a rich born politician/Actor born into the wealthy class that is for sure.  
I am not sure how those Americans who live in tent cities would feel though and those who lost a home and jobs and can never have it back..

----------


## Krugminator2

> I am sure for NeoCons, Globalists like yourselves making the Russians weak and in poverty is clearly and was a good thing right? like that time when you Americans installed Boris Yeltsin to rule Russia?


Well. I am a libertarian or classical liberal so I guess that does make me a "globalist".    Being staunchly anti-Communist does not make a person a neocon.  It is just part of being a decent person with good values.




> What America has became is no different from the Soviet Union. You Americans use threats, blackmails in order to gain what you want and Trump is proving just that.


No. The US is not remotely close to the Soviet Union. I don't see breadlines. Still legal to own property here. Not so much in the Soviet Union. I don't see the US government killing 10s of millions of its citizens and sending millions of others to the gulag.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Well. I am a libertarian or classical liberal so I guess that does make me a "globalist".    Being staunchly anti-Communist does not make a person a neocon.  It is just part of being a decent person with good values.
> 
> 
> 
> No. The US is not remotely close to the Soviet Union. I don't see breadlines. Still legal to own property here. Not so much in the Soviet Union.


libertarians are agaisnt regime changes therefore you are not libertarian. Libertarians even those in here understand how these regime changes and protests that happend in the middle east and in HK work and who started them.

Not everything is generic about them.  The fact that so called HK opposition is using a teenager kid who probably doesn't understand anything about politics just yet says alot, someone is pulling the string on this HK movement from the outside.

----------


## Krugminator2

> America is nowhere bad if your a rich born politician/Actor born into the wealthy class that is for sure.  
> I am not sure how those Americans who live in tent cities would feel though and those who lost a home and jobs and can never have it back..



What does that even mean?

Here is the reality. Anyone with reasonable intelligence and a strong work ethic can become financially secure in the US. Being the child of an actor (lol wut?) not necessary.

Sorry. Not familiar with the tent cities and people who can't get a job or a house ever are. Unemployment 3.6% right now, btw.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> America is nowhere bad if your a rich born politician/Actor born into the wealthy class that is for sure.  
> I am not sure how those Americans who live in tent cities would feel though and those who lost a home and jobs and can never have it back..


I'm sure they feel much better than those killed and tortured in the Gulags of the USSR and Red China or those who were starved to death by them etc.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> libertarians are agaisnt regime changes therefore you are not libertarian. Libertarians even those in here understand how these regime changes and protests that happend in the middle east and in HK work and who started them.
> 
> Not everything is generic about them.  The fact that so called HK opposition is using a teenager kid who probably doesn't understand anything about politics just yet says alot, someone is pulling the string on this HK movement from the outside.


Libertarians are against foreign interventionism, they are not simply against regime changes, they favor regime changes like the American Revolution that are conducted by the natives and increase liberty.

----------


## Krugminator2

> libertarians are agaisnt regime change
> .



Well. That is factually wrong. Libertarians support human freedom.  They don't support permanent rule of Communists or Mullahs. Pretty sure most libertarians support the American Revolution. Libertarians do tend to support limiting military involvement as a practical issue of the their government in foreign affairs.  But that doesn't mean pacifism if someone is a direct threat. The Soviet Union was a direct threat.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Well. That is factually wrong. Libertarians support human freedom.  They don't support permanent rule of Communists or Mullahs. Libertarians do tend to support limited military involvement as a practical issue of the their government in foreign affairs.  But they doesn't mean pacifism if someone is a direct threat. The Soviet Union was a direct threat.


Seeing how you joined in 2014 before Trump its clearly you havent read anything that Ron Paul or his team had posted. I suggest you before making such idiotic posts.





> Libertarians support human freedom


Yes but not through regime changes. Which is a manufactured system. For either Proxy war or proxy control. That is not true freedom.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Well. That is factually wrong. Libertarians support human freedom.  They don't support permanent rule of Communists or Mullahs. Pretty sure most libertarians support the American Revolution. Libertarians do tend to support limiting military involvement as a practical issue of the their government in foreign affairs.  But that doesn't mean pacifism if someone is a direct threat. The Soviet Union was a direct threat.





> The Soviet Union was a direct threat


How many 9/11 Hijackers were Iranians?

----------


## Krugminator2

> Seeing how you joined in 2014 before Trump its clearly you havent read anything that Ron Paul or his team had posted. I suggest you before making such idiotic posts.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but not through regime changes. Which is a manufactured system. For either Proxy war or proxy control. That is not true freedom.


I'm 36. Been a libertarian since I read Economics in One Lesson in 8th grade.

----------


## Krugminator2

> How many 9/11 Hijackers were Iranians?


None. No idea how that applies to anything. I don't remember advocating regime change in Iran.

Also don't know why you think I am a Trump supporter. I was pretty close the first person and most vocal here to start ripping him apart in the summer of 2015. Voted for Gary Johnson. Criticize him frequently now.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> I'm 36. Been a libertarian since I read Economics in One Lesson in 8th grade.


Another deflection. Many libertarians were against Bush's unpopular war. And what Trump is doing is unpopular as well.  What China does in territory is none of America's businesses. After all wasn't it Trump who said that Southern American belongs to the American sphare of influence? are you hoping to build more bases in Hong Kong so you can be closer to China? keep it isolated?

You know that is never going to work.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> None. No idea how that applies to anything.


Then there fore Iran is not threat to America nor to the West.

----------


## Pauls' Revere

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

Iran Challenges Trump, Announcing End of Nuclear Restrictions 

*But now, instead of buckling to American pressure, Iran declared on Sunday that those restrictions are over — a decade ahead of schedule. Mr. Trump’s gambit has effectively backfired.

Iran’s announcement essentially sounded the death knell of the 2015 nuclear agreement. And it largely re-creates conditions that led Israel and the United States to consider destroying Iran’s facilities a decade ago, again bringing them closer to the potential of open conflict with Tehran that was avoided by the accord.*

----------


## AngryCanadian



----------


## Pauls' Revere

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ya/2818024001/

Al-Shabab extremists kill 3 Americans in attack on military base used by US forces in Kenya

NAIROBI, Kenya – Al-Shabab extremists overran a key military base used by U.S. counterterror forces in Kenya before dawn Sunday, killing three American Department of Defense personnel and destroying several U.S. aircraft and vehicles before they were repelled, U.S. and Kenyan authorities said.
The attack on the Manda Bay Airfield was the al-Qaida-linked group’s first attack against U.S. forces in the East African country, and the military called the security situation “fluid” several hours after the assault.

----------


## Krugminator2

> Then there fore Iran is not threat to America nor to the West.



Iran's regime has no right to exist. China's regime has no right to exist.  What they think does not matter at all from a moral perspective. The only question is what  is in the United States' best interest. I have not weighed in on that question at all because I don't know. My default is the US should always do nothing unless directly attacked.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Dept of Homeland Sec issued order to CBP to report & detain anyone w Iranian heritage entering US who is deemed potentially suspicious or adversarial, regardless of citizenship. CBP at the Peace Arch Border Crossing has detained 60 Americans returning from concert in Canada
> 
> 
> Yup i dont see Trump winning this year. Its possible but arresting Iranians of anyone being suspicious regardless of citizenship? why Iran not Saudi Arabia? other countries? seems weird ya?


^^^FAKE NEWS^^^


US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) denied that its agents were  detaining Iranian-Americans and refusing them entry amid ramped-up  tensions between Iran and the US. 
The allegation first surfaced in a viral tweet  that included photos of a press release issued by the Council on  American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) alleging that the group was assisting  more than 60 Iranians and Iranian-Americans who were detained and  questioned at the Peace Arch Border Crossing in Blaine, Washington.
In  an email statement to Insider, CBP spokesperson Michael Friel flatly  denied any such actions by authorities with the agency or the Department  of Homeland Security. 
"Social media posts that CBP is detaining  Iranian-Americans and refusing their entry into the US because of their  country of origin are false," Friel said. "Reports that DHS/CBP has  issued a related directive are also false."

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-border...235758358.html

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Iran's regime has no right to exist. China's regime has no right to exist.  What they think does not matter at all from a moral perspective. The only question is what  is in the United States' best interest. I have not weighed in on that question at all because I don't know. My default is the US should always do nothing unless directly attacked.


If Iran regime has no rights on what ground bases does the Saudi Arabia and other gulf state regimes have a right to exist then?





> The only question is what  is in the United States' best interest.


Clearly stealing Oil, installing puppet and threating is what America;s interests are now with Trump at least Obama, the Obama admin tried to push for peace your side wants war well i will tell you this you will get your war but dont think for a moment Iran will be deafeated as easily with Iraq was.

Iran is with Russia and China are you seriously going to suggest that China and Russia would just sit and watch as their only ally and friend which they both being helping to deafeat ISIS in Syria is about to be crashed by America which only uses Air Forces to bomb countries? 

You WAR MONGERS never think straight. What your doing in here is defending a nutcase president with oblivious mental breakdown his having and his not hiding it.

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> 


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AngryCanadian again.

----------


## jmdrake

> 


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AngryCanadian again.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> Iran's regime has no right to exist. China's regime has no right to exist.  What they think does not matter at all from a moral perspective. The only question is what  is in the United States' best interest. I have not weighed in on that question at all because I don't know. My default is the US should always do nothing unless directly attacked.




I will be happily and gladly waiting for you NeoCons for your responses on this one then. Or maybe this one? 







> What they think does not matter at all from a *moral perspective*


I think the next American president should own many countries a MEGA apology for its past war crimes. No matter whatever its he or she or a left or right winger one.

What Moral perspective does America currently have?
America committed a war crime in Croatia as well by allowing Croatian gangs and fighters to drive away ordinary Serbian civilians from their homes.

----------


## Krugminator2

> If Iran regime has no rights on what ground bases does the Saudi Arabia and other gulf state regimes have a right to exist then?


None. Saudi Arabia has no right to exist in their current form.





> You WAR MONGERS never think straight. What your doing in here is defending a nutcase president with oblivious mental breakdown his having and his not hiding it.



What war have I ever supported here? I guess somewhere in my post history I supported WWII.

I don't even know how I am supporting Trump. I don't like Trump.  I haven't even said if this is a good or bad thing because I don't know. I am giving the same opinion on illegitimate countries that I have always given. Same with Obama. Same with Trump. See. I have morals. You do not. You are just a nihilistic Chomskyite.

----------


## AngryCanadian

> None. Saudi Arabia has no right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What war have I ever supported here? I guess somewhere in my post history I supported WWII.
> 
> I don't even know how I am supporting Trump. I don't like Trump.  I haven't even said if this is a good or bad thing because I don't know. I am giving the same opinion on illegitimate countries that I have always given. Same with Obama. Same with Trump. See. I have morals. You do not. You are just a nihilistic Chomskyite.





> What war have I ever supported here? I guess somewhere in my post history I supported WWII.


You should look this thread your currently supporting Trump's decision to start a war with Iran and in time he might get that war.

----------


## Krugminator2

> You should look this thread your currently supporting Trump's decision to start a war with Iran and in time he might get that war.


I haven't once supported him in this thread in his decision to assassinate this general.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You should look this thread your currently supporting Trump's decision to start a war with Iran and in time he might get that war.


Post one quote where he supports the war.

----------


## nikcers

> I will be happily and gladly waiting for you NeoCons for your responses on this one then. Or maybe this one? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the next American president should own many countries a MEGA apology for its past war crimes. No matter whatever its he or she or a left or right winger one.
> 
> What Moral perspective does America currently have?
> America committed a war crime in Croatia as well by allowing Croatian gangs and fighters to drive away ordinary Serbian civilians from their homes.


Apologies for what? Being the best country ever in the history of earth?

----------


## sparebulb

I just dawned on me what I was missing.

Where is goldenequity?

It looks like he hasn't posted since the summer.

He provided the best info from the middle east.

----------


## nikcers

We will send our apologies to Iran by air mail if they attack the United States, swiftly.

----------


## Krugminator2

> I will be happily and gladly waiting for you NeoCons for your responses on this one then. Or maybe this one?


I am not a neocon and not familiar with most of those interventions but you did respond to my post with that graphic so happy to answer.  Most of those listed didn't involve dropping bombs by the US government or going to war.

Let's use Chile as an example. Communism is the greatest evil in human history. Every single person is a slave under Communism. Over a hundred million people were murdered by their governments. It was a completely legitimate viewpoint to use intelligence and money to keep a country in the Western Hemisphere from becoming Communist and spreading. We did intervene financially and with intelligence in Chile and it worked. No blowback. The people are now wealthier and freer than any of their neighbors. And some of those military interventions like Grenada lasted a few days with minimal casualties and they worked.

I mean Cuba is listed on your graphic. So the US shouldn't have tried to assassinate Castro?  If you say no, then you just have bad values.

----------


## nikcers

> I am not a neocon and not familiar with most of those interventions but you did respond to my post with that graphic so happy to answer.  Most of those listed didn't involve dropping bombs by the US government or going to war.
> 
> Let's use Chile as an example. Communism is the greatest evil in human history. Every single person is a slave under Communism. Over a hundred million people were murdered by their governments. It was a completely legitimate viewpoint to use intelligence and money to keep a country in the Western Hemisphere from becoming Communist and spreading. We did intervene financially and with intelligence in Chile and it worked. No blowback. The people are now wealthier and freer than any of their neighbors. And some of those military interventions like Grenada lasted a few days with minimal casualties and they worked.


"You're welcome."

 -America

----------


## Influenza

> Saudi Arabia is bombing the $#@! out of Yemen with training and bombs they buy fron the UK


They have plenty of planes and bombs from the US. They are attacking Yemen with the help and training of the US. You think UK helping Saudi as well absolves the US? Who are you trying to fool? idiot

----------


## nikcers

> They have plenty of planes and bombs from the US. They are attacking Yemen with the help and training of the US. You think UK helping Saudi as well absolves the US? Who are you trying to fool? idiot



‘The Saudis couldn’t do it without us’: the UK’s true role in Yemen’s deadly war 


Britain does not merely supply the bombs that fall on Yemen – it provides the personnel and expertise that keep the war going. But is the government breaking the law? 




> For more than four years, a brutal Saudi air campaign has bombarded Yemen, killing tens of thousands, injuring hundreds of thousands and displacing millions – creating the world’s worst humanitarian crisis. And British weapons are doing much of the killing. Every day Yemen is hit by British bombs – dropped by British planes that are flown by British-trained pilots and maintained and prepared inside Saudi Arabia by thousands of British contractors.
> 
> *The Saudi-led military coalition, which includes the UAE, Bahrain and Kuwait, has “targeted civil**ians … in a widespread and systematic manner”, according to the UN – dropping bombs on hospitals, schools, weddings, funerals and even camps for displaced people fleeing the bombing.*
> 
> Saudi Arabia has in effect contracted out vital parts of its war against Yemen’s Houthi movement to the US and the UK. Britain does not merely supply weapons for this war: it provides the personnel and expertise required to keep the war going. The British government has deployed RAF personnel to work as engineers, and to train Saudi pilots and targeteers – while an even larger role is played by BAE Systems, Britain’s biggest arms company, which the government has subcontracted to provide weapons, maintenance and engineers inside Saudi Arabia.
> 
> “The Saudi bosses absolutely depend on BAE Systems,” John Deverell, a former MoD mandarin and defence attache to Saudi Arabia and Yemen, told me. “They couldn’t do it without us.” A BAE employee recently put it more plainly to Channel 4’s Dispatches: “If we weren’t there, in seven to 14 days there wouldn’t be a jet in the sky.”
> 
> *The British bombs that rain down on Yemen are produced in three towns: Glenrothes in Scotland, and Harlow and Stevenage in south-east England. Bombs roll off production lines owned by Raytheon UK and BAE Systems, firms contracted by the government to manufacture Paveway bombs (£22,000 apiece), Brimstone bombs (£105,000 apiece), and Storm Shadow cruise missiles (£790,000 apiece) for the Saudi Royal Air Force. BAE, under government contract, also assembles the jets that drop these bombs in hangars just outside the village of Warton, Lancashire.*
> ...






> The former senior British official told me he was aghast at the recklessness of Saudi targeting. “This is what would happen regularly,” he told me. “We’d be sitting down for lunch and a Yemeni [from the government in exile] would get a WhatsApp message with a pin on Google Maps saying that there will be Houthis here. On that basis, an awful lot of the targeting was conducted without any verification whatsoever.”
> 
> Larry Lewis, the State Department advisor for civilian protection, described Saudi targeting to me as “incredibly loose”. “In the US and the UK,” he explained, “we have very formal processes” for airstrikes, but “this coalition is not using them … And when you mess up, bad things happen.”
> 
> Lewis says that in September 2016 – a few weeks before the funeral strike – he took his concerns to the chairman of the Saudi armed forces. “I laid out all of the very actionable things he could do to reduce civilian harm,” he told me. “The chairman didn’t really seem very interested … he just didn’t respond.” Last July, crown prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), the architect of the air war, issued a royal decree “pardoning all military personnel who have taken part in Operation Restoring Hope of their respective military and disciplinary penalties.”
> 
> *After Saudi Arabia realised it could not defeat the Houthis with airstrikes alone, it launched a ground operation in northern Yemen, which includes thousands of Saudi troops, a wide assortment of Yemeni and foreign fighters, and British special forces.*
> 
> *The presence of British special forces in Yemen has not been officially acknowledged, but has become an open secret in defence circles.* A senior British diplomatic source told me that the decision to approve military assistance to Saudi Arabia emerged from a meeting in London between British ministers and Bin Salman during his state visit to the UK in March 2018 – when he met the Queen and signed a memorandum of intent to buy 48 more jets worth £10bn to upgrade his war-ravaged fleet.
> ...






> Under the terms of the deal, Saudi Arabia reimburses the British Ministry of Defence for the costs it incurs by paying BAE to arm and maintain the Saudi air force, plus a 2% fee for the time of civil servants administering the procurement. BAE depends on this state contract for its survival, but it also wields enormous sway with the government as the principal executor of this multi-billion dollar deal. (The former foreign secretary Robin Cook once described the firm as having “the key to the garden door to No 10”.)
> 
> Although al-Yamamah does not generate any income per se for the British treasury, it is the bedrock of a deeper financial relationship between London and Riyadh. The House of Saud uses its oil revenues to buy British stocks, bonds and luxury property; in 2017 it spent £93bn in Britain. David Wearing, a specialist on UK-Saudi relations at Royal Holloway University, estimates that a fifth of the UK current account deficit is financed by Saudi cash, which “stabilises an increasingly vulnerable pound”.
> 
> A former Conservative minister told me that just before Saudi Arabia started bombing Yemen in 2015, Riyadh privately communicated that it would squeeze Britain financially if the government wavered in its military cooperation. “At the outset, the imperative was conveyed that they saw British support of its war as a key test,” the minister recalled. “If you fail, you’re out, as far as commercial opportunities and influence in the future.”
> 
> *The groundwork for the al-Yamamah deal was laid during Britain’s imperial era. In the 1960s, the House of Saud financed an off-the-books war against Egyptian troops that had occupied Yemen, threatening both Saudi rule and Britain’s colony* in Aden. David Stirling, the founder of the SAS, used his sway with the Saudi King to broker a deal for the kingdom to buy British Lightning jets, radar systems and in-country services.
> 
> A decade later, events swung Saudi Arabia and Britain even closer together. In 1979, religious zealots seized Mecca’s Grand Mosque to demand the overthrow of the Saudi monarch – months after the Iranian revolution deposed the Shah and ushered in an Islamic Republic that openly challenged the House of Saud. Meanwhile, Britain was in financial disarray. It could not afford to buy the Tornado combat jet it had developed in a consortium with Italy and Germany. If Britain wanted an independent air deterrent, it would need a rich foreign buyer to subsidise the cost of its fleet. An insecure royal family sitting on the world’s largest oil reserves was the perfect customer.
> ...






> *For the British government, however, the JIAT provides a convenient figleaf for the continued licensing of arms exports to Riyadh. Researchers at the open-source investigative agency Bellingcat have accused the coalition of dishonesty in “the vast majority of JIAT assessments”. Rawan Shaif, who heads the group’s Yemen project, told me that “the information that [the UK] has been relying on” is coming from “a partner you have been directly supporting in a conflict, who is lying to you about the majority of strikes”.*
> 
> In the case of two particularly deadly attacks in May and July 2015 – in which more than 100 people were killed by airstrikes on outdoor markets in the town of Zabid and Fayoush, a suburb of Aden – the JIAT assessment simply insisted that the coalition had not bombed either location, in spite of reports by the UN, the BBC, Human Rights Watchand Amnesty, as well as camera-smartphone footage from the sites making it clear that an airstrike had taken place.
> 
> Elsewhere the JIAT has justified strikes by flatly asserting that the targets were military ones. After reports of civilian deaths in an airstrike in al-Jawf governorate in September 2016, JIAT released a statement claiming that the coalition had hit “Houthi commanders” travelling in a pickup truck. But when the UN and the Yemeni human rights group Mwatana made independent visits to the site, they discovered that the victims were a woman driving with her two sisters-in-law and their 12 children.
> 
> Parliamentary scrutiny of Britain’s compliance with arms export control laws is the responsibility of the Committees for Arms Export Controls (CAEC). This cross-party grouping, which includes 18 MPs, is chaired by Graham Jones, a Labour MP who has criticised the “dishonesty” of NGOs reporting on human-rights violations in Yemen, written in support of Bin Salman and the Saudi-led coalition, and touted BAE’s “vital role” for employment and the economy in his Lancashire constituency.
> 
> Dr Anna Stavrianakis, an academic researching arms licensing at the University of Sussex, who has regularly given evidence to CAEC, accused Jones of keeping Yemen off the committee’s agenda. “The government deliberately mobilises doubt and ambiguity when it comes to international humanitarian law violations in Yemen,” she told me. “And the chair acts in support of government policy rather than acting impartially to scrutinise it.” In an email to the Guardian, Jones replied that his critics were “far-left Marxists [who] back a violent, racist, Islamic fascist militia” in Yemen, and said he had been “at the forefront of discussions on Yemeni issues”.
> ...


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ens-deadly-war

----------


## Influenza

> The Iranian government in 1953 was controlled by a foreign government.


"I just assert things without any evidence that are contrary to established fact" - you

----------


## Influenza

> ‘The Saudis couldn’t do it without us’: the UK’s true role in Yemen’s deadly war 
> 
> 
> Britain does not merely supply the bombs that fall on Yemen – it provides the personnel and expertise that keep the war going. But is the government breaking the law? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Simply because the UK was a key part of the Saudi genocide in Yemen does not mean that the US was not. Grow a brain.

----------


## nikcers

> "I just assert things without any evidence that are contrary to established fact" - you


World War 2 Iran was neutral but they got invaded for oil. Regime change and foreigners controlling Iran is ongoing

----------


## nikcers

> Simply because the UK was a key part of the Saudi genocide in Yemen does not mean that the US was not. Grow a brain.


There are British special forces leading the Saudis.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

Would have been so proud ,  smiling down from Heaven on MAGA-GOPA leadership:

*"McCain: Sanctions, attacks await Iran "*



Related

*Iraqi PM: Soleimani was in Iraq to discuss Iran-Saudi de-escalation when he was killed*

Israel to attack Iran

Pat Buchanan: "Bibi Netanyahu Wants The U.S. To Fight A War With Iran On Behalf Of Israel"

Volunteers for a war with Iran



Bonus Material



*US Hawks Lay Out Plan For War With Iran At Adelson Backed Conference*
The event headlined by Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and former Sen. Joe  Lieberman saw calls to restore coercion against Iran, with several  figures advocating that the US accept the limits of sanctions alone by  sinking Iranian naval vessels in the Persian Gulf.

----------


## showpan

> My life has more opportunities and freedoms with a constitutional republic. My life isnt worth anything without one. If your argument is that it doesn't exist than i will fight to make it exist. I will make it reality.


You didn't answer the question. I answered yours.

*Do you actually believe your life really means something to the masters you defend....lol*

It is also a non argument for those who are aware. No, we do not currently have a constitutional republic. Our government is currently in the form of corporate fascism. Please educate yourself on what that actually means. Google would be a great start but keep in mind, corporate fascism has evolved into it's current form which differs from the vanilla definitions you will find at the top of you search.

----------


## showpan

> Trump isn't helping ISIS by defeating a common enemy. That's doublespeak. Trump's administration stopped arming ISIS. Obamas administration armed ISIS.


Wrong. Bush created and armed Isis. Obombya merely continued to do so just as Trump continues to do so

----------


## showpan

> What does that even mean?
> 
> Here is the reality. Anyone with reasonable intelligence and a strong work ethic can become financially secure in the US. Being the child of an actor (lol wut?) not necessary.
> 
> Sorry. Not familiar with the tent cities and people who can't get a job or a house ever are. Unemployment 3.6% right now, btw.


Obviously you do not drive very far from your own home...lol

----------


## showpan

> Well. That is factually wrong. Libertarians support human freedom.  They don't support permanent rule of Communists or Mullahs. Pretty sure most libertarians support the American Revolution. Libertarians do tend to support limiting military involvement as a practical issue of the their government in foreign affairs.  But that doesn't mean pacifism if someone is a direct threat. The Soviet Union was a direct threat.


The Soviet Union was only a direct threat to our interests abroad.....ie: our regime changes are a direct threat to their interests abroad. See how that works now?

----------


## nikcers

> You didn't answer the question. I answered yours.
> 
> *Do you actually believe your life really means something to the masters you defend....lol*
> 
> It is also a non argument for those who are aware. No, we do not currently have a constitutional republic. Our government is currently in the form of corporate fascism. Please educate yourself on what that actually means. Google would be a great start but keep in mind, corporate fascism has evolved into it's current form which differs from the vanilla definitions you will find at the top of you search.


I responded to your philosophical question about meaning with my personal perspective and my philosophy. Meaning is relative. One cannot truely see someone else's meaning. We are sort of like dogs that way.

----------


## showpan

> I responded to your philosophical question about meaning with my personal perspective and my philosophy. Meaning is relative. One cannot truely see someone else's meaning. We are sort of like dogs that way.


wrong, I, along with others can clearly see what you are up to here in this forum....lol...I am nothing like a dog. Speak for yourself.

----------


## nikcers

> wrong, I, along with others can clearly see what you are up to here in this forum....lol...I am nothing like a dog. Speak for yourself.


If you believe you can truly measure meaning non relatively than you are a mad man.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> The Soviet Union was only a direct threat to our interests abroad.....ie: our regime changes are a direct threat to their interests abroad. See how that works now?


They were a direct threat to America at home and so is Communist China.

----------


## nobody's_hero

The irony to me is that 30 years ago the Iranians and the Iraqis were fighting each other. We gotta come up with a better plan than uniting everyone against us. 

Probably if all our troops left the middle east tomorrow, the countries and people there would find some excuse to start killing each other. Saudi Arabia wants for whatever reason to attack Yemen. I'm fine with that. "Whatever," says I. Fk'em. But they can do it without our help, or interference.

----------


## tod evans

More 'warring' without a declaration of war.

----------


## nikcers

> The irony to me is that 30 years ago the Iranians and the Iraqis were fighting each other. We gotta come up with a better plan than uniting everyone against us. 
> 
> Probably if all our troops left the middle east tomorrow, the countries and people there would find some excuse to start killing each other. Saudi Arabia wants for whatever reason to attack Yemen. I'm fine with that. "Whatever," says I. Fk'em. But they can do it without our help, or interference.


Iran's been buying political influence and support there for years. After the Saddam Iraq war they took in a lot of refugees and then sent a bunch back to Iraq to be cheerleaders for Iran politically. They know how to brainwash people and understand how to use propaganda. Some of the germans went to Iran during world war 2. The British did regime change there because they were loyal to the Germans. The Iraqi government supports Iran as a form of protection. Essentially Iraq thinks that Iran can wipe them out with impunity. Its sort of like how people are loyal to the mafia. I guess you could argue thats a healthy relationship. There is a cost when you make these sort of deals though.

----------


## sparebulb

> Iran's been buying political influence and support there for years. After the Saddam Iraq war they took in a lot of refugees and then sent a bunch back to Iraq to be cheerleaders for Iran politically. They know how to brainwash people and understand how to use propaganda. Some of the germans went to Iran during world war 2. The British did regime change there because they were loyal to the Germans. The Iraqi government supports Iran as a form of protection. Essentially Iraq thinks that Iran can wipe them out with impunity. Its sort of like how people are loyal to the mafia. I guess you could argue thats a healthy relationship. There is a cost when you make these sort of deals though.


So, Iran is full of crypto-nazis?

Is this the propaganda love-child of an antifa/neocon union?

----------


## devil21

> They were a direct threat to America at home and so is Communist China.


Then why is the US military clearing the path for their One Belt One Road project?  I've posted about this multiple times and everybody just cruises right on past the posts without a single reply.




> More 'warring' without a declaration of war.


Pelosi says the House will introduce a War Powers Resolution to limit any action to 30 days.  Pence already tried to tie Iran to 9/11 as justification under the original AUMF.

----------


## tommyrp12

Speaking of China.

----------


## Ender

> I will stand by my assessment. It was an act of war, it was unconstitutional, it set a new precedent in assassinating foreign leaders, and yes, it is actually impeachable.


Agree- this is definitely impeachable.

----------


## Aratus

Agreed,

----------


## PAF

> Agree- this is definitely impeachable.


I third that.

----------


## Anti Globalist

This is something that you can actually impeach Trump over but the Democrats would rather waste their time with things that are trivial.

----------


## PAF

> This is something that you can actually impeach Trump over but the Democrats would rather waste their time with things that are trivial.


Of course. USMCA, you know. H/T to trump, dems, repubs.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Ironically, this is impeachable, but the neoconservative Democrat leadership will praise him on this.


Media celebrating Biden attack on supposed Iranians in Syria. Nothing new.

----------


## TheCount

Timely bump

----------


## Anti Globalist

Looks like it will be Biden that goes to war with Iran.

----------


## Ender

> Looks like it will be Biden that goes to war with Iran.


Getting out of the Iranian Deal, sanctioning Iran back to poverty, and assassinating their top general were all acts of war.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Getting out of the Iranian Deal, sanctioning Iran back to poverty, and assassinating their top general were all acts of war.


The Iran deal was unconstitutional and an act of treason.
And Iran has been at war with us all along.
Trump did a good job of reducing the threat they pose to us and backing them into a corner where they would have had to have real peace talks and make a real peace deal while not starting a boots on the ground war with them.

----------


## Swordsmyth

OPEC’s Second Largest Oil Producer Issues Arrest Warrant For Murder Against Donald Trump
https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...-donald-trump/

----------

