# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Without an M.C.O, the state owns your cars?!

## jbrace

A nice scam involving many states of the U.S have many people believing that they own their vehicles, but by law, your car is actually property of the state you live in in exchange for your right to register the fact you drive the vehicle, and are responsible for something you do not own.

This document is called the M.S.O, or the Manufacturers Statement of Origin. which verifies where the car came from and other details unique to the vehicle. 

Now, what has slipped under the radar is the M.S.O is the actual proof of ownership of the vehicle. I quote the newstory I found this on: ]

QUOTE
Asked if a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is proof of ownership, legal title to the automobile, Ms. Rottero said, "Yes".


Ms. Denise Rottero is the Supervisor of Tennesse's Revenue Operations Department.

Now the M.C.O is not only proof of ownership, but it is also an "Allodial Title". Here is an explanation of what an allodial title is.

So if you have the M.C.O to your vehicle, you not only own that vehicle, you're also exempt from any taxes that your state tries to levy against it. You would no longer have to pay taxes on that vehicle or "registration" fees. IT CAN NOT EVEN BE IMPOUNDED IF YOU GET PULLED OVER.

Once the new car hits the showroom floor, the M.C.O is surrendered to the state in which is has been delivered to. When you finally buy this vehicle for whatever price, you are given a "Certificate of Title" which is merely proof that the M.C.O exists. This "certificate of title" is really only legal jargon for "You can now register the fact that you have this car in your possession."

QUOTE
Tennessee Department of Revenue Operations Supervisor Denise
Rottero Told Judge Greer how Tennessee's auto registration process works.

The process begins with the "surrender" of the Manufacturer's
Statement of Origin (MSO) by the auto dealer to the Department of
Revenue in exchange for a Certificate of Title.

Asked if a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is proof of ownership, legal title to
the automobile, Ms. Rottero said, "Yes"


"Are you telling me that ownership of an automobile must be
surrendered to the State before it can be registered?" she was asked.

"Surrender title, yes'" Rottero said.


The certificate of title to your automobile is Not title, it's merely
evidence that title exists. Your car's legal TITLE is the MSO, which the
dealer surrendered to the State. Ms. Rottero said the MSO is put on
microfilm for permanent keeping, the original is destroyed.

After the trial, spectators expressed shock that their personal
automobiles were actually owned by the state. "No wonder
state law officers stop people for no reason!" said a housewife. "If your
car's got a Tennessee plate, it's theirs, and they can do anything they
like to you!"

That's the law, but it's voluntary. No one but Judge Greer
had dared say that if you don't surrender your car to the state in
exchange for plates, you go to jail.



Our state's destroy the M.S.O and put it on microfilm, so it can never be recovered by the owner.

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## lynnf

I believe that I heard on a patriot radio show that if you pay cash for the 
car, you can get the MCO before the state does and you then own the
car yourself.

but how many of us can pay cash for a new car?

lynn

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## Danke

MSO/MCO, Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, is nothing more than a Bill of Lading.

The Title to a car in fact and law is the Bill of Sale.

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## Rancher

I want to get an "Allodial Title" to our ranch.

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## UnReconstructed

of course the state owns the cars, that's why you put their tax id plate on it and register it every year

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## Dr.3D

I have a truck that doesn't have any kind of MSO/MCO associated with it.   I built it myself and then had the state write me up a registration for it.   That doesn't keep me from paying for a license plate though.

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## TRIGRHAPPY

It seems like while I do enjoy the discussions here........  Ron Paul forums is a breeding ground for conspiracy nuts.

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## lynnf

> It seems like while I do enjoy the discussions here........  Ron Paul forums is a breeding ground for conspiracy nuts.


then go back to sleep, little sheeple, what you don't know can't hurt you..... yet!

lynn

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## YumYum

> MSO/MCO, Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, is nothing more than a Bill of Lading.
> 
> The Title to a car in fact and law is the Bill of Sale.


Again, you are correct Mr. Berdanke!

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## Danke

> then go back to sleep, little sheeple, what you don't know can't hurt you..... yet!
> 
> lynn


He must be one of those crazy Coincidence Theorist!

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## Bruno

> It seems like while I do enjoy the discussions here........  Ron Paul forums is a breeding ground for conspiracy nuts.


If you're not looking for a conspiracy, you're playing into their hands.

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## Chester Copperpot

> A nice scam involving many states of the U.S have many people believing that they own their vehicles, but by law, your car is actually property of the state you live in in exchange for your right to register the fact you drive the vehicle, and are responsible for something you do not own.
> 
> This document is called the M.S.O, or the Manufacturers Statement of Origin. which verifies where the car came from and other details unique to the vehicle. 
> 
> Now, what has slipped under the radar is the M.S.O is the actual proof of ownership of the vehicle. I quote the newstory I found this on: ]
> 
> QUOTE
> Asked if a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is proof of ownership, legal title to the automobile, Ms. Rottero said, "Yes".
> 
> ...


Michael Badnarik explains this very succintly in his constitution class.

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## lynnf

> Michael Badnarik explains this very succinctly in his constitution class.



I don't remember him covering that when I took it, but then it was several years ago.  maybe he added it later.


lynn

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## angelatc

> It seems like while I do enjoy the discussions here........  Ron Paul forums is a breeding ground for conspiracy nuts.


More and more every day. ...

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## haaaylee

> I don't remember him covering that when I took it, but then it was several years ago.  maybe he added it later.
> 
> 
> lynn




The Google Video version covers this. But, he said you can get the M.C.O. unlike what the article says.  If you pay in cash at the dealership. And i believe in some states if you buy a new car you can request one.  They may not know what you are talking about but do have the ability to find the M.C.O. Some state's website's even give instructions on obtaining one. 


Also, this isn't really a conspiracy . . .

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## lynnf

> More and more every day. ...


or is it that there are more and more weird things happening or being exposed every day?

lynn

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## Justin D

I also saw Michael Badnarik's constitution class online. After becoming interested in the topic of vehicle title, I found this page for NYS DMV. http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/proove.htm

Some of the information is contradictory. 




> The proof of ownership for a new vehicle is the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) or the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) *and* form MV-50 (Dealer's Bill of Sale). The proof of ownership for a used vehicle is the title certificate that the previous owner signed to transfer the ownership to the dealer and a form MV-50 that the dealer signs to transfer ownership to you. Out-of-state dealers use a different bill of sale form.





> *Acceptable Proofs of Ownership*
> 
> *Cars, Trucks and Motorcycles - model year 1973 or newer*
> The acceptable proof of ownership is a title certificate _from any state_ *and* a bill of sale. The person whose name appears on the proof of ownership must sign the transfer section of the proof of ownership.


On the bottom of the page it reads, "To protect your claim to ownership,apply for a title certificate no more than 30 days after you receive ownership."

What happens after 30 days? 

So first, the MSO and bill of sale is proof of ownership. Then, a _title certificate_ from _any state_ and a bill of sale is ownership. Finally, your "claim of ownership" is not protected if you don't apply for a _title certificate._ 

Somthing's fishy here.

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## fedup100

> The Google Video version covers this. But, he said you can get the M.C.O. unlike what the article says.  If you pay in cash at the dealership. And i believe in some states if you buy a new car you can request one.  They may not know what you are talking about but do have the ability to find the M.C.O. Some state's website's even give instructions on obtaining one. 
> 
> 
> Also, this isn't really a conspiracy . . .


Pay in cash means gold or silver only, not fern's.  Yes they have to give it to you but it will only open the door for police harassment and most likely a good killing or at the very least a good tasering for you will not be able to get plates and therefore will not be free to travel on THEIR roads and byways.

Ignorance and apathy have enslaved all of us.  I tell you if you think this is outlandish consider this.

You by a home and you go sign the deal, you then *ALLOW* them, to go record the sale at the county.  There is no law you must record the sale of a property at the county records, it is done through ignorant compliance and a strong arm twist by a lender if you borrow money.  

Now if you pay cash, stupid people still rush down and record it on the county record thinking it will protect their ownership when in fact you just gave the county ownership and you have now split the title to that home forever.  Now comes the property taxes and the sheriff to take your home if you don't pay their tribute.

The stupid tax for all of us is being applied daily through ignorance and custom, not law.  Just try to stop it now.  For those who are saying "then you cannot protect your interest if you don't file at the county", really, well how do explain land ownership that has gone on for the last few thousand years then? * YOU* take the title and keep it safe, *DO NOT GIVE IT TO THE COUNTY!*

Again if you try this, you will face a good (^%$ by the man.  We are not free amd we own nothing!

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## Matt Collins

I would like to get a professional legal opinion on this.

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## fedup100

> I would like to get a professional legal opinion on this.


As  a Real estate Broker in Wa State you just got my legal opinion.

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## t0rnado

> As  a Real estate Broker in Wa State you just got my legal opinion.


Would this actually be practical in court though? There have been many "sovereign" citizens arrested and sent to prison for driving without licenses, without plates, etc.. Also, you can only have allodial title to land in Nevada and Texas, so how would this apply to other states?

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## fedup100

> Would this actually be practical in court though? There have been many "sovereign" citizens arrested and sent to prison for driving without licenses, without plates, etc.. Also, you can only have allodial title to land in Nevada and Texas, so how would this apply to other states?


No none of it would be practical in THEIR courts.  Everything THEY do in their courts is a fiction.

You can keep your title and there is a form to fill out in this state to have your property address removed from the county records.  It has been 15 years since I have read this material.   Allodial title is not the discussion.  The question is, show me the law that requires you to file the purchase of your home at the county recorders office.

These Little details regarding personal and real property need to be studied and scoured on a local level and then the people can take back their ownership and strip the counties of their power and revenue.  Not to mention it would mortally wound the tax mans liens on your property.

We need to do only 3 things to bring the beast down:

1. Demand to be paid in cash for work done.  close all bank accounts. Borrow no money from these thieves and cut up your credit cards.
( bring down the banks, we don't need no stinkin audit )

2.  Keep all titles to property in your own safe.  Do not record at county and have the address removed from the county records.  
( bring down the corrupt counties and break their piggy bank )

3. Elect a Constitutional sheriff that will follow Sheriff Mack's principals.
( bring down the federal 3 letter agencies that cannot enter his county )

If the feds can't take your paycheck, bank account or property, they are out of business.

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## fedup100

> I would like to get a professional legal opinion on this.


So your gonna believe a Bar attorney who knows squat about the constitution or the truth?

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## heavenlyboy34

interesting info, thnx.

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## Danke

> Also, you can only have allodial title to land in Nevada and Texas, so how would this apply to other states?


Minnesota Constitution:  Sec. 15. Lands allodial; void agricultural leases. All lands within the state are allodial and feudal tenures of every description with all their incidents are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural lands for a longer period than 21 years reserving rent or service of any kind shall be void.

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## RabbitMan

So a question then:  To get the MSO for a car, you have to buy it new with 'cash' and request the MSO from the dealer.  Then you are not required to pay taxes or register your car, or even required to have a driver's license to drive the said car.  You will have 'allodial title'  BUT, the 'cash' you pay in has to be silver or gold?  So you have to pay in silver or gold at face(artificially low) value?  Seems an awful lot of money for a car.  And THEN you are not allowed to drive on public roads?

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## FreeTraveler

> So if you have the M.C.O to your vehicle, you not only own that vehicle, you're also exempt from any taxes that your state tries to levy against it. You would no longer have to pay taxes on that vehicle or "registration" fees. IT CAN NOT EVEN BE IMPOUNDED IF YOU GET PULLED OVER.


 Try it. Let me know how it works out for you. TPTB pee on the Constitution, and some other piece of paper is going to make them throw up their hands and declare "Oh, noes, he has the magic paper, we must not tax or impound his car."

Where's the smiley for ROFLMAO?

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## youngbuck

> Try it. Let me know how it works out for you. TPTB pee on the Constitution, and some other piece of paper is going to make them throw up their hands and declare "Oh, noes, he has the magic paper, we must not tax or impound his car."
> 
> Where's the smiley for ROFLMAO?


That's pretty much my opinion.  I think a lot of this stuff is true IN THEORY, but when practiced, will land you in jail with fines, or worse.  Like t0rnado said, all I ever hear about is "sovereign" citizens losing in court, going to jail, or whatever else.  I want to see documented success.

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