# Lifestyles & Discussion > Science & Technology >  Microsoft Excel test as part of interview?

## Philhelm

I have an interview tomorrow with a top law firm and will be required to take a Microsoft Excel test.  During the preliminary phone interview, I was asked to rate myself in the use of Excel on a scale of 1 to 5.  I had rated myself as a 4, my rationale being that 3 is average and that I would definitely consider myself to be above average although by no means an Excel expert.  I've always had a strong mathematical aptitude, albeit rusty, and am capable of using the functions and performing calculations.

The first interviewer had suggested that I use the Microsoft basic tutorials as a guide, but there is simply no time for that since I had next day notice for the second interview.

Has anyone taken an Excel test?  If so, how was the test formatted?  My concern is that it will ask questions in a way that I will not know the answer or that a question will expect a specific way to perform a task.  For instance, I'm not familiar with the shortcut keys for the various functions, but that wouldn't preclude knowledge of the software.  If asked where I could find a particular sub-function, I likely wouldn't recall the exact path to get there, while I may easily and quickly get there if I had the actual program in front of me.

I'm usually a good test-taker, but this one is getting me anxious since I can imagine plenty of questions that would trip me up, despite being able to perform the task when using the actual software.

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## Pisces

> I have an interview tomorrow with a top law firm and will be required to take a Microsoft Excel test.  During the preliminary phone interview, I was asked to rate myself in the use of Excel on a scale of 1 to 5.  I had rated myself as a 4, my rationale being that 3 is average and that I would definitely consider myself to be above average although by no means an Excel expert.  I've always had a strong mathematical aptitude, albeit rusty, and am capable of using the functions and performing calculations.
> 
> The first interviewer had suggested that I use the Microsoft basic tutorials as a guide, but there is simply no time for that since I had next day notice for the second interview.
> 
> Has anyone taken an Excel test?  If so, how was the test formatted?  My concern is that it will ask questions in a way that I will not know the answer or that a question will expect a specific way to perform a task.  For instance, I'm not familiar with the shortcut keys for the various functions, but that wouldn't preclude knowledge of the software.  If asked where I could find a particular sub-function, I likely wouldn't recall the exact path to get there, while I may easily and quickly get there if I had the actual program in front of me.
> 
> I'm usually a good test-taker, but this one is getting me anxious since I can imagine plenty of questions that would trip me up, despite being able to perform the task when using the actual software.


Are you applying for an accounting or financial position? I've never taken an Excel test but using it has always been a big part of my job. I did help a co-worker with the test for a job she was applying for. The test asked you to do various things in Excel and it was timed. She was applying for an admin assistant type job so the test wasn't that hard. A lot of it had to do with formatting and some of the more basic functions. I don't remember that it penalized you for not doing things one way when there are other ways to do what they are asking. This was a few years ago so I don't remember everything about the test.

 Mathematical aptitude isn't the most important part of using Excel since it does the calculations for you. If you rated yourself a 4, they are probably going to expect you to know how to create pivot tables, maybe use the vlook-up function, understand how to sort and filter data, and probably use if-then formulas. Do you have Excel on your computer? I would try to make time to use the tutorial if at all possible.  

On second thought, it probably depends on the type of position you are applying for. If you are not doing a lot of accounting work, they may not expect you to know all of that.

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## tttppp

The test I took in excel and other office products, they mainly ask you where to go to do a certain thing, not to actually create it. There is a big difference between the two. Personally most of what you do in excel is common sense. The hard part for me is graphs and stuff like that that I have never had to use in excel.

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## Nirvikalpa

The test I had to do was a 9x9 table (or so, I can't remember exactly).

Title was larger than rest of text, bolded, and was the entire 9 span.
First column was just regular text, aligned left.
Second column was smaller text (1pt smaller), dollar value, aligned right.

Crap like that.  You should know how to align text, how to change values (like cash without the dollar sign, percents rounded up, etc).

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## Philhelm

The position is for their accounting department for billing and collections.  I don't have accounting experience, but they are looking for someone with paralegal experience and at least some billing, which I do have.

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## tttppp

I dont know about you but I would be insulted being asked to take such a stupid test, and I have been asked before. First of all, my college background covers it, so I dont see the point of being tested again. Plus, no company asking you about your excel skills is thinking about you as upper management. Excel skills is something I purposely leave off my resume so people dont think of me as a bean counter or secretary, no offense.

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## Pisces

> I dont know about you but I would be insulted being asked to take such a stupid test, and I have been asked before. First of all, my college background covers it, so I dont see the point of being tested again. Plus, no company asking you about your excel skills is thinking about you as upper management. Excel skills is something I purposely leave off my resume so people dont think of me as a bean counter or secretary, no offense.


If you want to be a CFO, controller or a manager in an accounting dept., you will need to know Excel.

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## tttppp

> If you want to be a CFO, controller or a manager in an accounting dept., you will need to know Excel.


Thats not the point. Learning excel is like learning to text someone. You can figure it out on your own. When companies are asking you to take brain dead tests like this, you just are not being considered for a CFO position even down the line. You dont ask potential CFOs questions like that.

Not to mention, a CFO can hire a secretary to do fancy stuff in excel, so excel skills are overrated. The vast majority of the time, just knowing the basics of excel is all you need to know.

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## Pisces

> Thats not the point. Learning excel is like learning to text someone. You can figure it out on your own. When companies are asking you to take brain dead tests like this, you just are not being considered for a CFO position even down the line. You dont ask potential CFOs questions like that.


You must not use Excel much. There are a lot of advanced functions that are not just common sense. If you are an accountant, and you have to handle large volumes of data, you have to have advanced Excel skills. If you are not an accountant, you probably have no idea all the things you can do with Excel. IT people also need to understand how it interacts with the company's other software like SAP or Oracle.

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## Tod

> how to *create pivot tables*, maybe use the vlook-up function, understand how to sort and filter data, and probably use if-then formulas. Do you have Excel on your computer? I would try to make time to use the tutorial if at all possible.  
> 
> On second thought, it probably depends on the type of position you are applying for. If you are not doing a lot of accounting work, they may not expect you to know all of that.


Of the sorts of things you listed, I've used all of them except pivot tables, which I've just never seemed to have a use for.  None of that stuff is particularly difficult, but I would have a tough time remembering the details without my "Excel Bible" handy to refresh my memory as to what functions are available and which one best serves my needs.





> Thats not the point. Learning excel is like learning to text someone. You can figure it out on your own. When companies are asking you to take brain dead tests like this, you just are not being considered for a CFO position even down the line. *You dont ask potential CFOs questions like that*.
> 
> Not to mention, a CFO can hire a secretary to do fancy stuff in excel, so excel skills are overrated. The vast majority of the time, just knowing the basics of excel is all you need to know.


I agree;  it is kind of like asking a master builder to prove proficiency with a hammer.  There are more advanced topics to be concerned about.

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## Pisces

> Thats not the point. Learning excel is like learning to text someone. You can figure it out on your own. When companies are asking you to take brain dead tests like this, you just are not being considered for a CFO position even down the line. You dont ask potential CFOs questions like that.
> 
> Not to mention, a CFO can hire a secretary to do fancy stuff in excel, so excel skills are overrated. The vast majority of the time, just knowing the basics of excel is all you need to know.


You wouldn't ask a CFO to take a test because you would expect him to already know how to use it to have gotten that far. Most secretaries aren't going to know how to do fancy stuff in Excel. Excel skills are great because they can save so much time, plus you can understand what your subordinates are doing. A lot of the accounting screw-ups I've seen are because the accounting staff don't know how to maintain an Excel spreadsheet.

This is getting to be a silly argument though.

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## angelatc

> I dont know about you but I would be insulted being asked to take such a stupid test, and I have been asked before. First of all, my college background covers it, so I dont see the point of being tested again. Plus, no company asking you about your excel skills is thinking about you as upper management. Excel skills is something I purposely leave off my resume so people dont think of me as a bean counter or secretary, no offense.



Hahahaha!  When I was a kid, my Mom told me to never learn typing because I'd be stuck in a secretary job.  Of course, that was before computers came on the scene.

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## tttppp

> You wouldn't ask a CFO to take a test because you would expect him to already know how to use it to have gotten that far. Most secretaries aren't going to know how to do fancy stuff in Excel. Excel skills are great because they can save so much time, plus you can understand what your subordinates are doing. A lot of the accounting screw-ups I've seen are because the accounting staff don't know how to maintain an Excel spreadsheet.
> 
> This is getting to be a silly argument though.


High level managements job is to manage people, not spreadsheets. Without even knowing excel, a CFO can demand his employees to find the errors. And some of them could be experts in excel. Of course in real life a CFO is at least going to know the basics of excel and thats where the errors are found. They usually are not found in some complex graph you wouldnt use excel for anyways.

I can give you an example. I am currently having someone working on my business plan and powerpoint presentation, because I am not an expert in word, powerpoint, photoshop, and things like that. But there are tons of peope who are experts in that stuff who can do the work for you.

I am not knocking those skills. If you work alone and have no money for help, those skills are incredibly valuable. But for a top executive of a big company, you dont have to be an expert. Quite franky I would ask more important questions in an interview than how are your excel skills. A more important question would be can you manage people with excel skills.

Also, go ask a top recruiter what they look for in top management. They are going to say high level thinkers who can see the big picture. They are not going to excel test them and nobody looking for a CFO job is going to waste his time with an excel test. So the point I was making at the beginning is that if they are asking you to take that test, you know what that company is thinking of you. They are not thinking this guy has upper management skills.

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## Cowlesy

This thread makes my head hurt.

Kaiser Philhelm, I think Nirvikalpa's post is probably the most informative.  They won't be asking you to do NPV, IRR calcs or creating circular-referenced waterfall distribution analyses.  I imagine what she posted (formatting, add/subtract/multiply/divide) will be what you need.

For what it's worth about being "insulted" about being asked to take such a "stupid test", not all of us are sitting in the Ritz Carlton interviewing for C-Suite jobs, and happily take these tests as part of the process.

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## tttppp

> This thread makes my head hurt.
> 
> Kaiser Philhelm, I think Nirvikalpa's post is probably the most informative.  They won't be asking you to do NPV, IRR calcs or creating circular-referenced waterfall distribution analyses.  I imagine what she posted (formatting, add/subtract/multiply/divide) will be what you need.
> 
> For what it's worth about being "insulted" about being asked to take such a "stupid test", not all of us are sitting in the Ritz Carlton interviewing for C-Suite jobs, and happily take these tests as part of the process.


Some people who spend 5 years getting a degree and Masters with high scores and great recommendations and resume might not feel thrilled about having to take a pointless test. Its really a slap in the face to everything you worked for. I can see if you havent finished high school to give a test like this. But they give these tests to college graduates.

Maybe I am just speaking for myself, but I did not go to school for 5 years to be an excel expert, even though my classes did teach and test excel.

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## amy31416

Cowlesy's right.

While I've never had to take an Excel test, perhaps I should have considering how many fellow scientists I had to show how to use it. Excel skills are important to so many different fields these days, whether you're in medical, science, engineering, accounting or even a small business owner that makes baskets.

If it was necessary to the position and I was a business owner--damn right I'd test you. Colleges can be completely sub-par, just like high schools.

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## pcosmar

I would tell them I hate Microsoft products and seldom use them,, then give them an equivalent demonstration with Open Office Calc.

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## fisharmor

I've used Excel exactly twice in the last five years.
The second to last time I used it to extract data from a sql server database.
The last time I used pivot tables to do a root cause analysis on MySQL data (I copypasted that one) and show some graphs.

If I was going for an actual IT position, I'd be insulted if I was asked to take an Excel test, because most of the time the nature of those jobs is to be familiar with concepts, and be able to do a google search when you need to know the syntax for VLOOKUP.  (Another example: I've been in IT for 12 years, and I can never remember a damned thing about HTML.  I don't need to.)

I wouldn't be insulted if the job required that I do it every day.  But if I needed the job, I'd probably talk to the hiring manager and explain that I might not do well on the test, but if he pays attention to that only, he's passing up an opportunity to hire someone who not only is going to be doing the work, but will also be presenting suggestions within two weeks for how to save man hours on that particular task.

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## Cowlesy

> Some people who spend 5 years getting a degree and Masters with high scores and great recommendations and resume might not feel thrilled about having to take a pointless test. Its really a slap in the face to everything you worked for. I can see if you havent finished high school to give a test like this. But they give these tests to college graduates.
> 
> Maybe I am just speaking for myself, but I did not go to school for 5 years to be an excel expert, even though my classes did teach and test excel.


Understood.  I know we're still going to make all our HBS/UPenn/Stanford MBA's take an excel modeling test if they want to do it for living.  And they gladly take the test.  *shrug*

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## TywinLannister

I hate these $#@!ing tests. I've taken a few Excel tests for jobs. It made me do things like add and delete columns/rows, use the SUM feature to add a row of numbers together, create a chart from a row of figures. Can you do that stuff?

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## tttppp

> Understood.  I know we're still going to make all our HBS/UPenn/Stanford MBA's take an excel modeling test if they want to do it for living.  And they gladly take the test.  *shrug*



What is the point of going to these colleges if you still have to waste your time with these tests? Plus those schools are supposed to prepare you to be a leader, not a secretary. No offense. But if those were the only opportunities, I would pass on school altogether and get an office learning program. I dont know about you, but if I went to Harvard, my response to an excel test would be "I went to Harvard, take it or leave it."

If you are interviewing a busines major, ask a relevant question, such as your management style, what companies you would recommend, what you think of their regulatory environment. All of that is more relevant than some excel test.

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## tttppp

> I hate these $#@!ing tests. I've taken a few Excel tests for jobs. It made me do things like add and delete columns/rows, use the SUM feature to add a row of numbers together, create a chart from a row of figures. Can you do that stuff?



I have yet to see someone make a chart in excel in the real world.

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## oyarde

Good luck Phil with the interview, I am of no help to you, I use it on a regular basis , but just for some spread sheets I made.Have never taken a test.

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## tttppp

> Cowlesy's right.
> 
> While I've never had to take an Excel test, perhaps I should have considering how many fellow scientists I had to show how to use it. Excel skills are important to so many different fields these days, whether you're in medical, science, engineering, accounting or even a small business owner that makes baskets.
> 
> If it was necessary to the position and I was a business owner--damn right I'd test you. Colleges can be completely sub-par, just like high schools.


Excel is one of the easiest things people in tnose professions learn. You might as well ask them to take a spelling test too, since college is sub par.

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## dannno

When you go to take the test, see if they have practice tests and take that first. This will show you how to do each question. Then when you go to take the test you'll be prepared and will likely be able to ace it or get close.

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## amy31416

> Excel is one of the easiest things people in tnose professions learn. You might as well ask them to take a spelling test too, since college is sub par.


If I were hiring an editor or writer I would.

If you don't like it, walk away from the job. I wouldn't hire someone who thought he was "too good" to be tested on something vital to the position he was being considered for. If you've gone to college in the last two decades and you don't think it's sub-par, then you're part of the problem.

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## Cowlesy

If you are going to hire someone to do billing/collections, it makes sense to give the potential hire an excel test if they'll be using it everyday.  If you are going to hire someone to financial model $4,000,000,000 leveraged buyouts, it makes sense to give the potential hire an excel test.

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## tttppp

> If I were hiring an editor or writer I would.
> 
> If you don't like it, walk away from the job. I wouldn't hire someone who thought he was "too good" to be tested on something vital to the position he was being considered for. If you've gone to college in the last two decades and you don't think it's sub-par, then you're part of the problem.



Its sub par because they train you to be slaves for companies, not teach you how to run one. But they do teach you office products and everything you need to follow someone else. So there is no need for an excel test or any other pointless test.

If you can't figure out excel on you own, you are part of the problem.

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## oyarde

> If I were hiring an editor or writer I would.
> 
> If you don't like it, walk away from the job. I wouldn't hire someone who thought he was "too good" to be tested on something vital to the position he was being considered for. If you've gone to college in the last two decades and you don't think it's sub-par, then you're part of the problem.


 my edumacation pre dates a couple decades .

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## amy31416

> Its sub par because they train you to be slaves for companies, not teach you how to run one. But they do teach you office products and everything you need to follow someone else. So there is no need for an excel test or any other pointless test.
> 
> If you can't figure out excel on you own, you are part of the problem.


No worries sweets, I figured it out and taught it to other people. Am I to simply assume that you had a good professor who taught you the basics of various programs, or should I be smart and make sure you know it even though it might offend your delicate sensibilities?

There is a need for tests for various positions, every single aspect of a job interview is a test even if it's not being labeled that way. If you're offended by an employer requiring a test for a job position, you should be offended that he wants to interview you at all. 

After all, you have a degree, right? Therefore you are automatically qualified.

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## AFPVet

Yep... I've taken MS Office classes too, but when I took the Excel test, it would only allow you to do things one way (when there are multiple ways) and it wouldn't let me use certain commands. Those tests are screwed up... if they wanted a real Excel test, they should just have you do something and e-mail it back to them.

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## tttppp

> No worries sweets, I figured it out and taught it to other people. Am I to simply assume that you had a good professor who taught you the basics of various programs, or should I be smart and make sure you know it even though it might offend your delicate sensibilities?
> 
> There is a need for tests for various positions, every single aspect of a job interview is a test even if it's not being labeled that way. If you're offended by an employer requiring a test for a job position, you should be offended that he wants to interview you at all. 
> 
> After all, you have a degree, right? Therefore you are automatically qualified.


You are missing the point. They only make you take these stupid tests becuase they think you are an idiot and only want you doing idiots work. You have very little chance of advancemment in jobs that require pointless tests. Thats the point I was making. If someone offered me a CEO position for passing a test, of course I would take it, but that does not happen because recruiters know there are far more valuable things to ask a prospective CEO.

By the way, with my degree, I made complex worksheets that would value companies financials. You cant get that kind of information from a test like the one mentioned above. It would be simpler to just ask the candidate what he has done in excel and what he can do.

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## MelissaWV

> You are missing the point. They only make you take these stupid tests becuase they think you are an idiot and only want you doing* idiots* work. You have very little chance of *advancemment* in jobs that require pointless tests. Thats the point I was making. If someone offered me a CEO position for passing a test, of course I would take it, but that does not happen because recruiters know there are far more valuable things to ask a prospective CEO.
> 
> By the way, with my degree, I made complex worksheets that would value *companies* financials. You *cant* get that kind of information from a test like the one mentioned above. It would be simpler to just ask the candidate what he has done in excel and what he can do.


You would, though, fail at my job.    The skills tests administered to people bidding for contracts in my field would weed you out, yet almost everyone would say that an advanced degree makes it very obvious that you can speak and read English proficiently.  Common sense and basic skills are neither common nor basic these days, and a degree is no guarantee that your senior accountant can create and make sense of spreadsheets effectively.

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## Philhelm

As it turned out, the test was pretty simple.  It didn't even cover pivot tables, vlookup, macros, or mathematical functions, and it was in the format of being an artificial Excel in which I would perform the tasks.  The downside was that I was thrown off since it was based on Excel 2007 instead of 2010, and if I clicked the wrong tab I would risk giving the wrong answer.  I ended up getting an 87% since I had missed four out of thirty.  My recruiter was happy with the result, but I was a bit disappointed.

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## TywinLannister

> As it turned out, the test was pretty simple.  It didn't even cover pivot tables, vlookup, macros, or mathematical functions, and it was in the format of being an artificial Excel in which I would perform the tasks.  The downside was that I was thrown off since it was based on Excel 2007 instead of 2010, and if I clicked the wrong tab I would risk giving the wrong answer.  I ended up getting an 87% since I had missed four out of thirty.  My recruiter was happy with the result, but I was a bit disappointed.


The tests can be so aggravating. For example, some I have taken, if it asks you to copy, and you click ctrl-C instead of right click and copy, it will mark your answer wrong because you DIDN'T DO IT THE WAY WE WANTED YOU TO DO IT, even though it works just as well. Some of the tests I have taken for online computer courses were the same.

Good luck with the job. Don't know why they would hire a Baratheon though, given their record with company equipment. XD

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## tttppp

> You would, though, fail at my job.    The skills tests administered to people bidding for contracts in my field would weed you out, yet almost everyone would say that an advanced degree makes it very obvious that you can speak and read English proficiently.  Common sense and basic skills are neither common nor basic these days, and a degree is no guarantee that your senior accountant can create and make sense of spreadsheets effectively.



Thats why I said for questions to be asked in an interview. In my example, my excel work was not required but I did it anyways to learn more about valuing businesses. Point is if they had just asked me a question about excel, they would have learned more than those computer tests. There are a lot of idiots in college, thats why you actually ask them questions in interviews which they never do.

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## oyarde

> As it turned out, the test was pretty simple.  It didn't even cover pivot tables, vlookup, macros, or mathematical functions, and it was in the format of being an artificial Excel in which I would perform the tasks.  The downside was that I was thrown off since it was based on Excel 2007 instead of 2010, and if I clicked the wrong tab I would risk giving the wrong answer.  I ended up getting an 87% since I had missed four out of thirty.  My recruiter was happy with the result, but I was a bit disappointed.


Well , good luck , hope you get the job !

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## MelissaWV

> Thats why I said for questions to be asked in an interview. In my example, my excel work was not required but I did it anyways to learn more about valuing businesses. Point is if they had just asked me a question about excel, they would have learned more than those computer tests. There are a lot of idiots in college, thats why you actually ask them questions in interviews which they never do.


My point was that simply asking someone if they are proficient is not always helpful.  People often learn enough to limp through an interview, but can't do much once you've already gone through the trouble of hiring them.  I would not base a hire purely on the results of a skills test, but you might be shocked and dismayed at how many people are filtered out just by failing miserably at them.  There is also the added bonus of time and resources not being wasted on a full interview when it turns out the person is a total bust.   

People lie during interviews.  Being able to pass (not with 100%, but just pass) a skills test is much harder to fake.

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## tttppp

> My point was that simply asking someone if they are proficient is not always helpful.  People often learn enough to limp through an interview, but can't do much once you've already gone through the trouble of hiring them.  I would not base a hire purely on the results of a skills test, but you might be shocked and dismayed at how many people are filtered out just by failing miserably at them.  There is also the added bonus of time and resources not being wasted on a full interview when it turns out the person is a total bust.   
> 
> People lie during interviews.  Being able to pass (not with 100%, but just pass) a skills test is much harder to fake.


Its hard to make up examples during an interview. If you just ask yes or no questions, you will get nowhere, but if you ask what they have done and what they can do for you, you can get a lot out of it. The past couple contractors I hired that did a great job, were hired largely based on what they said they could do for me. So that does count a lot.

I never meant to say those tests are worthless. On the internet for example where you cant meet the person, it helps to have some tests and have good feedback since you cant see them. But for a normal job interview, these tests are nothing more than a urine test. Sure I would be happy to provide a sample, but odds are companies that do that are not very good.

My experience with interviews is most people are not good interveiwers. They spend all the time selling you on your company, then forget to ask you any tough questions. This is why so many crappy candidates can get by in interviews.

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