# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Justin Amash Forum >  Amash Quits Republican Party

## Mr.NoSmile

I guess we could've seen this coming.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/polit...gop/index.html




> Rep. Justin Amash, the only congressional Republican who publicly argues that President Donald Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct, announced Thursday he is quitting the GOP.
> 
> "Today, I am declaring my independence and leaving the Republican Party," Amash wrote in a Washington Post op-ed Thursday morning. "No matter your circumstance, I'm asking you to join me in rejecting the partisan loyalties and rhetoric that divide and dehumanize us. I'm asking you to believe that we can do better than this two-party system  and to work toward it. If we continue to take America for granted, we will lose it."
> Amash didn't mention the President by name, but his decision to abandon the party comes after months of escalating criticism not just of the President but of his own colleagues for their failure to hold Trump to account, specifically for the actions detailed in special counsel Robert Mueller's report on the 2016 election and its aftermath.
> 
> ...
> 
> The move also upends the state of play in Michigan's 3rd District, where several Republican candidates have announced their plans to challenge him for his current congressional seat in the GOP primary.
> 
> ...

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## Superfluous Man

Interesting. Wow.

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## PAF

Sweet.

The duopoly will never change, as bones are thrown on both sides of the isle. Hopefully some will take notice, think about this, and more will follow.

As somebody said, you have to break some eggs in order to make an omelet. I’ll take mine with hash browns :-)

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## TheTexan



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## Anti Federalist

> Ignore him.  He judges anyone who supports Trump as being a racist, just like MSNBC and CNN does.  In fact, the posts in which he insults and name calls people who support Trump as being ignorant or below him are countless.


No, I will not ignore him, nor will I allow the dreaded shouts of "racist" to carry any weight with me or affect what I do or what I advocate for.

The clock has just spun back 20 years that's all.

I was a Buchanan supporter all through the 90s, and heard the same $#@!, from the same tired one worlders, over and over.

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## Philhelm

tl;dr:  "The government sucks, but I'm just going to virtue signal before falling upon my own sword."

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## Anti Federalist

> A lot of the RPF Stormfronter crowd read the opening sentence and said to themselves, "Wait. What?"
> 
> They never would have supported Amash at all if they'd known that background.





> You are absolutely right.
> 
> While I understand a lot of the problems, manufactured and otherwise, that many here rant about, there are still many immigrants who actually do seek liberty and fiscal responsibility. More so than average MSFoxNBC Americans do.


Oh, and just FYI...I have always been aware of Justin's background and family, and even though he was not in my district, not representing me "officially", I donated to his campaign, more than once.

Why he chose to lose his cool and self destruct and get himself removed as a voice of liberty when we need every single one we can get, is beyond me. 

Ron came to an understanding and reached a _modus operandi_ with "the system" that served him well for 20 plus years.

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## Champ

Invested in a ton of his re-election campaigns.  Let people know we had a rare ally in Congress that was libertarian and principled.  Actually felt represented by someone in Congress because I knew Justin was in there.  And to see the Mueller Report nonsense will ultimately be the hill Amash died on, it's sad.  The duopoly needs to end and fast, he is 100% right, this message would have resonated much deeper, as others have said, by announcing his plans to retire before he came guns blazing against Trump.

Whatever he does going forward, it would be great if he put his energy into the causes that got him all of the support he received since his first campaign.

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## UWDude

> Im asking you to join me in rejecting the partisan loyalties and rhetoric


By ignoring the crimes of the deep state against Trump, and the Russian collusion hoax, and join me, in impeaching Trump for not bending over hard enough when told to by Mueller and his team of lynch-men.

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## TER

> I ask you the same question...
> 
> Furthermore, I don't think have much room to talk.
> 
> You are so rigidly wedded to ideology that you'd let your own town burn to the ground rather than allow hoses and fire equipment to be dragged across your property without your permission.


Some, most likely out of pride and ego, have made idols of their ideologies and ‘purity’, that they could care less if the world burns around them as long as they can selfishly feel to be ‘above’ others. 

The Lord said be as peaceful as doves and as wise as snakes.  Not as stubborn as mules.  Had Justin been wiser, he would have known which fight to pick, but he put his libertarian ideals ahead of his common sense.  And now, he will be booted out of Congress and become a footnote in history instead of being a great leader we hoped he would become.  Rand is peaceful as a dove and as wise as a snake with regards to the political game, and that is why his future to make a positive impact is much brighter.

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## champion_thedrinker

Seems like Justin could make some noise as the Libertarian presidential nominee. 
2012 was a very exciting time for me, following Ron Paul in the various state nomination processes. Would be nice for the ideas of liberty to be heard on a larger scale again, this forum certainly hasn't been the same since then.

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## spudea

> Great to see that Justin is joining me in rejecting the D&R Global Crime Syndicate.  
> 
> Welcome to the free world.


He literally used the "D&R Global Crime Syndicate" to get elected.  And now he gives up and we lose a liberty vote in congress, gj.

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## Brian4Liberty

>

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## RonZeplin



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## RonZeplin

> Douchebag.


+rep

Douchebag Don

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## Ender

> 


AMEN.

And one the same note:

*National Republicans may be maneuvering to unseat Kentucky's conservative darling, Massie*
https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...er/1581919001/

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## Brian4Liberty

> I have donated to him in the past also, I wish I could understand what he's doing but I just can't.


He emphasized refugees and immigration in his Op-Ed. That is the basis for a lot of the outrage against Trump, and probably a big part of his opposition to Trump. 

The problem is that this issue splits libertarians, and the Tea Party types lean even more towards immigration restriction. For a person who has pro-immigration as a high priority or even their highest priority, it is a frustration. For Amash, it means he had to see at least half of his supporters disagree with him on that particular issue, and they would tend to be supporters that identified as constitutional or libertarian Republicans. So *on this issue*, he would see very few, if any, of those constitutional or libertarian Republicans side with him. Therefore no reason to be a Republican anymore.

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## euphemia

I hope he has some method to the madness.

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## tfurrh

“It was expected of me that I was to bow to the name of Andrew Jackson... even at the expense of my conscience and judgement. such a thing was new to me, and a total stranger to my principles.

I would rather be beaten and be a man than to be elected and be a little puppy dog. I have always supported measures and principles and not men. I have acted fearless[ly] and independent and I never will regret my course. I would rather be politically buried than to be hypocritically immortalized.”

Davy Crockett

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## champion_thedrinker

Why are there so many trump fans here now?
Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?

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## euphemia

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


I’m not a huge Trump fan.  What I would say is that he has done more to protect the unborn than any other President.  This alone is worth serious consideration.

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## Anti Federalist

> AMEN.
> 
> And one the same note:
> 
> *National Republicans may be maneuvering to unseat Kentucky's conservative darling, Massie*
> https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...er/1581919001/


Wouldn't be the first time...national GOP went after Ron over and over again.

Gotta play it smarter than Amash did.

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## nikcers

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


Trump is fighting the same liberal establishment that Ron Paul is fighting against. Most people who don't have TDS blinders on can see that clearly.

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## nobody's_hero

> Wouldn't be the first time...national GOP went after Ron over and over again.
> 
> Gotta play it smarter than Amash did.


In spite of all the opposition and flak he got from the GOP, somehow Ron kept his seat in Galveston/Lake Jackson until he just didn't want to do it anymore. Maybe Amash just doesn't want to do it anymore. In a way I can't blame him. Just wish it hadn't been done like pulling a grenade pin and holding the pineapple to his own chest. Ron left office with grace. Amash is leaving with a big mess to clean up.

NOW would probably be a good time to think about who is gonna take his place.

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## TER

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


No, apparently they haven’t posted in years and came back to mock the majority who have remained.

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## TheTexan

> NOW would probably be a good time to think about who is gonna take his place.


Hopefully we can replace him with someone who appreciates how Great our President is

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## nobody's_hero

> Hopefully we can replace him with someone who appreciates how Great our President is


But you don't live in Michigan.

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## TomtheTinker

> Depends on the State. It has worked for others in the past. Murkowski won as an independent in Alaska, even after losing the primary.


I'm referring to presidential run.

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## Ender

> It was expected of me that I was to bow to the name of Andrew Jackson... even at the expense of my conscience and judgement. such a thing was new to me, and a total stranger to my principles.
> 
> I would rather be beaten and be a man than to be elected and be a little puppy dog. I have always supported measures and principles and not men. I have acted fearless[ly] and independent and I never will regret my course. I would rather be politically buried than to be hypocritically immortalized.
> 
> Davy Crockett


YEP.

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## Ender

> Wouldn't be the first time...national GOP went after Ron over and over again.
> 
> Gotta play it smarter than Amash did.


SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO STOP KISSING THE RING & SAY: *NO.*

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## nobody's_hero

> SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO STOP KISSING THE RING & SAY: *NO.*


And sometimes you have to forget about the ring altogether and do what you can from your foothold without screaming "bonzai!" and detonating your suicide vest.

maybe it's just me but that seems like a rather unreasonable approach to advancing liberty. It's not like it's gotta be one or the other. You can be a bit more tactful about it. Public opinion is kind of a fragile thing and until this bunch actually understands that, we're just spinning our wheels.

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## TER

> SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO STOP KISSING THE RING & SAY: *NO.*


Rand is kissing the ring?

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## jon4liberty

> No, apparently they haven’t posted in years and came back to mock the majority who have remained.


Your guy's arrogance and and being so "principled" is not gaining us freedoms. The needle is heading in the right direction in SOME by no means all areas. With your strategy the needle is heading in the complete opposite direction. Rand and Thomas have played wisely.

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## kahless

Another take on it.

Justin China Announces His Republican Departure…
https://theconservativetreehouse.com...can-departure/



> Justin China is specifically at risk from the ‘America First’ trade and economic policy of President Donald Trump.  [Detailed Here]  With extensive family financial holdings dependent on Chinese manufacturing there is a specific level of transparent self interest.

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## Ender

> And sometimes you have to forget about the ring altogether and do what you can from your foothold without screaming "bonzai!" and detonating your suicide vest.
> 
> maybe it's just me but that seems like a rather unreasonable approach to advancing liberty. It's not like it's gotta be one or the other. You can be a bit more tactful about it.


So, what are we celebrating today????

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## kcchiefs6465

> Another take on it.
> 
> Justin China Announces His Republican Departure…
> https://theconservativetreehouse.com...can-departure/


Lol. I feel like throwing a book at you.

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## kahless

Another on Amash's Chinese holdings.

Justin Amash’s Business Interests in China Underscore His Push to Impeach Trump
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/justin...impeach-trump/



> In Amash’s financial disclosure forms for the year of 2015, he was shown as receiving up to $1 million in annual income due to his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools (MIT). MIT is the parent company of Tekton Tools, Amash’s family business, that benefits directly from Chinese manufacturing.
> 
> An article from MLive in 2010 exposed Amash as being the co-owner of Dynamic Source International (DSI), a Chinese company that was once an MIT supplier. Amash’s family have been outspoken advocates of the globalist trade status quo for many years.
> ....
> The fact is, instead of making American-made products made by American workers, Justin Amash has chosen Chinese workers to make products which he then sells in America,” said Lonny Paris, who served as campaign manager in 2010 for Amash’s Democratic opponent Pat Miles Jr.


I am not going to mourn the loss of a politician that puts illegals, open borders and employs foreign citizens over our own.  $#@! him!

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## nobody's_hero

> So, what are we celebrating today????


Victory over tyranny? (nevermind the slow decay back into it over the course of a few hundred years)

I don't see your point. The rebels in 1776 won. I doubt if they had lost we would know their names or have much to celebrate. At some point they went from recruiting martyrs to recruiting fighters and they won. *This movement seems to be perpetually seeking out martyrs.* Time to move the ball forward. Let's move to a new phase, please. For the love of God, a new strategy.

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## juleswin

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


They didn't leave, most just turned because of the immigration issue. The way they see it, the more immigrants that enter, eventually becoming voting citizen, the harder it would be to elect a liberty govt. The logic is sound but I don't believe Trump is anymore anti immigration than Obama. He all talk and no action

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## TheTexan

> So, what are we celebrating today????


The birth of our great government.

The best government.  Ask anyone.

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## AngryCanadian

> He knows he is going to lose and is trying to saving face - political career by leaving the party.  If he penned this op-ed first back in May and now came out against Trump it would have sounded more credible his reasons for leaving.   The trick to beating Trump is not to talk about Trump, rather blow your own horn, call out bad policies and stay away from retarded far left hot button issues.


Exactly and he was stupid for pushing for an impeachment which would never happen and based on the evidence that shows Trump didn't do anything wrong or colliding.

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## nikcers

> So, what are we celebrating today????


I love you, even though you don't agree with me about Trumps motivations or understand that Trumps opposition is worse than he is, and I will fight to the death for your right to say and believe whatever you want.

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## TER

> Your guy's arrogance and and being so "principled" is not gaining us freedoms. The needle is heading in the right direction in SOME by no means all areas. With your strategy the needle is heading in the complete opposite direction. Rand and Thomas have played wisely.


Wrong.  I see the whole $#@! house coming down at some point.  I’m trying to delay it for the sake of my family and neighbors.  

Trump is a blessing compared to Hillary and has allowed us some time and a fighting chance.   Now we need to fight smart if we wish to right this without the violent revolution some here seem to lust over. 

The needle is in a much better position than I could have imagined a few years ago. The life of the unborn being the most important. 

For the time remaining, I’m going to support men who have an actual chance at fixing things in the current state things are in now.  I don’t idolize him, but he happens to be the best President in my lifetime in slowing down the collapse and I do support him even as I don’t support him on certain things.  

It’s the left and the fakestream media who is brainwashing people into thinking that if there is one single reason why you think Trump is bad, then you have to support the other party and hate him. 

These antics work in low IQ individuals or those who have devoted themselves to some passion and are blinded to anything else around them. 

What is going on with the boycott of the MSM for the parade should be clear to even a child, namely, that they are actively plotting against him. And for those who still have the delusion that he is some pawn for the DS even after this, than I fear there may be little hope for them. 

Trump is the best shot we have.  Maybe not the most constitutional or best mannered, but the best in terms of realistic chance in turning the ship in a better direction, as imperfect and unfinished as it is

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## Ender

> Another take on it.
> 
> Justin China Announces His Republican Departure
> https://theconservativetreehouse.com...can-departure/


So, using that same logic, this is the reason the Wall hasn't been built:
*If Trump thinks migrants in the U.S. illegally are dangerous, why has he hired so many of them?*
ttps://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-2-enter-the-fray-if-trump-thinks-undocumented-migrants-1546619872-htmlstory.htmlhttps://www.thedailybeast.com/tiny-costa-rica-town-full-of-undocumented-workers-at-trumps-new-jersey-golf-course-wapo
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/42...mp-golf-course

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## kahless

> So, using that same logic, this is the reason the Wall hasn't been built:
> *If Trump thinks migrants in the U.S. illegally are dangerous, why has he hired so many of them?*
> ttps://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-2-enter-the-fray-if-trump-thinks-undocumented-migrants-1546619872-htmlstory.htmlhttps://www.thedailybeast.com/tiny-costa-rica-town-full-of-undocumented-workers-at-trumps-new-jersey-golf-course-wapo
> https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/42...mp-golf-course


He is less than ideal but he is all we have right now.  It is what it is. When he leaves office and if an America firster takes his place I will not miss his flaws either.

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## RonZeplin

> They didn't leave, most just turned because of the immigration issue. The way they see it, the more immigrants that enter, eventually becoming voting citizen, the harder it would be to elect a liberty govt. The logic is sound but I don't believe Trump is anymore anti immigration than Obama. He all talk and no action


Yep, Donnell is a big phony, an Obongo/Hillary clone like dubya.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I'm referring to presidential run.


Bill Kristol ran Evan McMuffin last time around as an independent for POTUS in the General Election. Kristol has been praising Amash lately...

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## RJB

> Amash has always been somewhat disenchanted with politics. IIRC, early on (second term?) he talked about quitting. 
> 
> Good luck to him, whatever he does.


I can't blame him.  As much as I dislike most politicians, I could never do what Ron Paul did.  That man has balls of steel.  You will never see me run for office.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Another on Amash's Chinese holdings.
> 
> Justin Amashs Business Interests in China Underscore His Push to Impeach Trump
> https://bigleaguepolitics.com/justin...impeach-trump/
> 
> I am not going to mourn the loss of a politician that puts illegals, open borders and employs foreign citizens over our own.  $#@! him!


Disagreeing with him on two issues doesnt make him an enemy. And that last comment is uncalled for and out of line.

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## Anti Globalist

> Bill Kristol ran Evan McMuffin last time around as an independent for POTUS in the General Election. Kristol has been praising Amash lately...


And Amash needs to disentangle himself with Kristol immediately.

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## Superfluous Man

> And Amash needs to disentangle himself with Kristol immediately.


What entanglement does he have with Kristol?

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## kahless

> Disagreeing with him on two issues doesn’t make him an enemy. And that last comment is uncalled for and out of line.


These are not simply "two issues". I got little carried away since it is infuriating how blind some on the right can be or out of greed in support of policies that will deny us a future of politicians with Amash's voting record (on all other issues besides the border/trade).  If you really want a libertarian like society here you have to think about the future political demographic makeup of this country.  His border and immigration policies deny us that future.

The globalist trade policies have leveled the playing field at the expense of the blue collar working poor and middle class in this country. So again this is not simply "two issues".  It is choosing to give away the country to others with opposing ideology and reduce the wealth of the working class. If you are great on everything else but two issues amount to losing our wealth, jobs and country to foreigners then that candidate does not really support his own constituents.

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## Sammy

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


Listen I voted for Trump...I voted for Trump because Trump railed against the iraq war.
Trump is wrong on some issues..But he is the best President since Eisenhower.

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## Superfluous Man

> Im not a huge Trump fan.  What I would say is that he has done more to protect the unborn than any other President.  This alone is worth serious consideration.


What has he done to protect the unborn any different than every other Republican president?

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## Snowball

https://twitter.com/justinamash/stat...39241189355520

His OpEd: 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.a036854d4985

Justin Amash Quits Republican Party After Backing Trump Impeachment

Justin Amashthe only Republican who has said publicly that he wants President Trump to face impeachmentis celebrating the Fourth of July in style after announcing that he's quit the GOP.

Writing in the Washington Post, Amash made a thinly-veiled attack on Trump in an emotional plea to Americans to reject the partisan loyalties and rhetoric that divide and dehumanize us. He went on to say that American politics is trapped in a partisan death spiral, and warned : If we continue to take America for granted, we will lose it.

Amash's decision to quit the party comes after he joined Democratic calls for an impeachment inquiry after the publication of the Mueller Report in April. Since then, he's had to deal with the scorn of his colleagues and has been publicly singled out as a lightweight by the president, who said Amash was a loser who sadly plays right into our opponents hands!

*Trump welcomed the news of Amash's exit Thursday, calling him one of the dumbest and most disloyal men in Congress. He added: [Amash] knew he couldn't get the nomination to run again in the Great State of Michigan. Already being challenged for his seat. A total loser!*

In his article, Amash quoted extensively from George Washington's farewell address which warned against the dangers of partisanship. Amash wrote that Washington's fears are coming true and that Americans allowed elected officials to toss the constitution aside for the sake of party unity, and that he's become frightened by the two-party system in recent years.

*Today, I am declaring my independence and leaving the Republican Party, wrote Amash, summing up his announcement. No matter your circumstance, Im asking you to join me in rejecting the partisan loyalties and rhetoric that divide and dehumanize us. Im asking you to believe that we can do better than this two-party systemand to work toward it.*

Amash's departure will fuel speculation that he's hoping to become the nation's leading anti-Trump conservative and seek the Libertarian Party nomination for the 2020 presidential election. He's been evasive on the question before, telling CNN earlier this year that he can't rule out the move because he feels that someone has to shake up two-party politics.

The move will also throw open the GOP primaries in Michigan's 3rd District, where several Republican candidates have already announced their intention to challenge Amash for his congressional seat.

Providing he does try to keep a hold of his seatwhich he didn't mention in the articlehell now face reelection as an independent.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/justin...ticles&via=rss

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## juleswin

> Listen I voted for Trump...I voted for Trump because Trump railed against the iraq war.
> Trump is wrong on some issues..But he is the best President since Eisenhower.


Just for the record, the last 3 president we had railed against the wars. Bush said he did not want to be the world's police man, Obama criticized the Iraq war saying it was a mistake, and same goes for Trump. If that is what convinced you then you haven't been paying attention. How is it that people are still falling for this trick?

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## spudea

> What has he done to protect the unborn any different than every other Republican president?


Are you blind to anything that makes Trump look good?  He is defunding planned parenthood and appointing pro-life federal judges.  Here you go:  https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...703-story.html




> Planned Parenthood, which has said it would not comply with the rule, faces the loss of nearly $60 million in federal funds annually.
> The panel that decided last month to permit Trump’s rule to take effect noted that the Title X family planning program at issue was limited by similar abortion-related restrictions in the past, and the U.S. Supreme Court upheld them.
> “The Final Rule’s prohibitions on advocating, encouraging, or promoting abortion, as well as on referring patients for abortions, are reasonable,” the panel wrote.

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## nikcers

> What has he done to protect the unborn any different than every other Republican president?


Lowest unemployment in history, people abort babies because they can't afford them.

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## RonZeplin

New & Improved.

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## juleswin

> Lowest unemployment in history, people abort babies because they can't afford them.


You think the sizeable number of women who abort their children do so because they can't afford it? I thought the welfare system in this country took care of that and birth control and condoms are way cheaper than abortions. This is just not true.

I present to you pro life Donald Trump

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## Anti Federalist

> So, what are we celebrating today????


The introduction of one of the most radical manifestos ever penned and agreed to.

The Declaration of Independence.

It really *did* change the course of the world.

Human nature being what it is, we've lost that, and now Jefferson is being deposed as a racist and becoming an unperson.

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## nikcers

> You think the sizeable number of women who abort their children do so because they can't afford it? I thought the welfare system in this country took care of that and birth control and condoms are way cheaper than abortions. This is just not true.
> 
> I present to you pro life Donald Trump


I argue that people are more likely to have children if they can afford it and you give me some old video of him. You are really not worth arguing with if you are this stupid.

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## devil21

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


Not all is what it appears to be on RPF, or other websites for that matter.  A lot of shills and bots pushing Trump worship mind control psyops.  These days one person can literally control 5 or more accounts at once using VMWare (Virtual Machine softWare) and it look like 5 different posters.  You've probably noticed the bizarre transformation of long time RP supporting accounts turning into Trump authoritarian supporters.  Not all is what it appears to be.

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## nikcers

> Not all is what it appears to be on RPF, or other websites for that matter.  A lot of shills and bots pushing Trump worship mind control psyops.  These days one person can literally control 5 or more accounts at once using VMWare (Virtual Machine softWare) and it look like 5 different posters.  You've probably noticed the bizarre transformation of long time RP supporting accounts turning into Trump authoritarian supporters.  Not all is what it appears to be.


Who hacked Rand Pauls twitter?

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## susano

> https://wapo.st/32aAIV2


That's all real nice and I agree with George Washington. It was so good of Justin to use the NWO paper of record, that hates our constitution, to publish his agreement with our first president. That said, did he just fall off the turnip truck? Since when has the Republican Party been about limited government and all of that other good stuff? Not in my lifetime. They're just a tad better than Democraps in that regard. Was it US policy in central and south America, propping up dictators and regimes that tortured dissidents that made Justin think the Republican Party was all about freedom and limited govt? Maybe Desert Storm, initiated by Mr New World Order himself, Bush 41? Perhaps the Iraq war and Bush 43? The massive deficits? The militarism of the neocons? Democraps are the ideological descendants of the Bolsheviks but Republicans sure as hell have never been Jeffersonian so I find his farewell to the GOP to be insincere or, maybe, kind of ideologically delusional because it doesn't reflect reality. 

All that aside, there was no Russia "collusion" and no matter how distasteful Justin finds Trump, he's done nothing impeachable. By endorsing the sham Mueller report , Justin aligned himself with those who cooked that fraud up (talk about doing ANYTHING to retain power). I would have respected him more if he'd just said he'd done some soul searching, realized he's a Libertarian, opposes US sovereignty and supports open borders and went on his way. I'm very glad he's done this, though, because Democrats would have assured his win in the primary. 

I hate our partisan system and wish that anyone who runs for office would have to do  so in under their name only without party affiliation. That's not what we have, though. What we DO have is a country teetering on the edge of going full on Marxist, thanks to immigration policies that allowed a fifth column into this country, and Justin wants more of that. We're in death spiral, alright, and even the all powerful (snark) Trump can barely keep it at bay.

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## Ender

> The introduction of one of the most radical manifestos ever penned and agreed to.
> 
> The Declaration of Independence.
> 
> It really *did* change the course of the world.
> 
> Human nature being what it is, we've lost that, and now Jefferson is being deposed as a racist and becoming an unperson.


Read it and weep:

*Why Most People Embrace the State  And Why Some Will Always Reject It*
By Murray N. Rothbard



> Mises.org
> 
> July 4, 2019
> _
> [From Concepts of the Role of Intellectuals In Social Change Toward Laissez Faire in The Journal of Libertarian Studies, Fall 1990]_
> 
> Why, La Boétie cries out in anguish, why, when reason teaches us the justice of natural rights and equal liberty for all, why, when even animals display a natural instinct to be free, is man, the only creature really born to be free, [lacking] the memory of his original condition and the desire to return to it?7 Why, in short, are people steeped in such a vile and monstrous vice as consenting to their own subjection?
> 
> La Boétie answers, first, that the difficult act of initially establishing tyrannical State power is accomplished through some form of conquest, either by a foreign power, an internal coup, or by the use of a wartime emergency as an excuse to fasten a permanent despotism upon the public. And why then do people continue to consent?
> ...

----------


## juleswin

> I argue that people are more likely to have children if they can afford it and you give me some old video of him. You are really not worth arguing with if you are this stupid.


I just think that is a very tiny number. Factors that would have a much greater effect on abortion are things like being in a committed relationship, being in a confortable place at work, completed school/work training etc etc. This country has so many support system for poor mother that I find it hard to believe any sizeable number of mother will abort their kids because of money problems. Also just having a job doesn't mean one is financially stable enough to raise a baby.

I posted the video because it was one of Trump before he started vying for votes where he states his values. Sadly for some of you supporters, he has a secular New York city value system. This for the most part means that he hates abortion like more pro choice people do but is OK with people making that decisions for themselves. This is his true nature and I think the only area where his live and let live principles show.

----------


## nikcers

> I just think that is a very tiny number. Factors that would have a much greater effect on abortion are things like being in a committed relationship, being in a confortable place at work, completed school/work training etc etc. This country has so many support system for poor mother that I find it hard to believe any sizeable number of mother will abort their kids because of money problems. Also just having a job doesn't mean one is financially stable enough to raise a baby.
> 
> I posted the video because it was one of Trump before he started vying for votes where he states his values. Sadly for some of you supporters, he has a secular New York city value system. This for the most part means that he hates abortion like more pro choice people do but is OK with people making that decisions for themselves. This is his true nature and I think the only area where his live and let live principles show.


This isn't about strategy this is about results. The results speak for themselves unless you have TDS blinders on.

----------


## juleswin

> This isn't about strategy this is about results. The results speak for themselves unless you have TDS blinders on.


What results are you talking about? do you know how many abortions that has been performed this year? Do you even know if the number is up or down?

----------


## nikcers

> What results are you talking about? do you know how many abortions that has been performed this year? Do you even know if the number is up or down?


Jobs.

----------


## juleswin

> Jobs.


Those job numbers have been trending down before Trump took power. I am really not entirely sure Trump make any big difference with that trendline.

----------


## susano

> It certainly seems like it includes you. Does it?



First bad rep I've ever given. 

You from the Democratic Underground or something?

----------


## susano

> No, I will not ignore him, nor will I allow the dreaded shouts of "racist" to carry any weight with me or affect what I do or what I advocate for.
> 
> The clock has just spun back 20 years that's all.
> 
> I was a Buchanan supporter all through the 90s, and heard the same $#@!, from the same tired one worlders, over and over.




You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

----------


## susano

> Oh, and just FYI...I have always been aware of Justin's background and family, and even though he was not in my district, not representing me "officially", I donated to his campaign, more than once.
> 
> Why he chose to lose his cool and self destruct and get himself removed as a voice of liberty when we need every single one we can get, is beyond me. 
> 
> Ron came to an understanding and reached a _modus operandi_ with "the system" that served him well for 20 plus years.



TDS. It's that simple.

----------


## nikcers

> Those job numbers have been trending down before Trump took power. I am really not entirely sure Trump make any big difference with that trendline.


See this is why you aren't worth arguing with because you always choose to ignore facts that you don't want to believe.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> TDS. It's that simple.


none of these soyboys and cry cry women even criticize Trump with valid arguments like "This is unconstitutional" No it's always "He hates everyone but the white people who elected him and he also is racist cuz my feelings"

----------


## UWDude

> First bad rep I've ever given. 
> 
> You from the Democratic Underground or something?


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6415322




> Trump is the biggest enemy right now. Not the MSM or any of its outlets.


He is literally an ally of the MSM.

----------


## RJB

> First bad rep I've ever given. 
> 
> You from the Democratic Underground or something?


I will join you.   Throwing around white supremacists, Stormfronter, etc. is a cheap shot when losing the argument.  If such a label is believed, it can ruin a person's livelihood. 

 If name calling is not allowed, the mods should  seriously consider the ramifications of letting someone claim that this forum is taken over by stormfront members.

 Not only is that name calling, but it is serious slander against the membership and can ruin the reputation of this forum.

----------


## UWDude

> I will join you.   Throwing around white supremacists, Stormfronter, etc. is a cheap shot when losing the argument.  If such a label is believed, it can ruin a person's livelihood. 
> 
>  If name calling is not allowed, the mods should  seriously consider the ramifications of letting someone claim that this forum is taken over by stormfront members.
> 
>  Not only is that name calling, but it is serious slander against the membership and can ruin the reputation of this forum.


He joined a month before the 2016 elections.

I don't care what the losers say as they lose.
Words count.  Say the wrong ones, and your intentions backfire.

So I welcome people like zip and Superflous (I <3 MSM)  and RonZeplin (Biden is better than Trump).
They make allies for me.  I don't even have to say anything.
That's polarity for you.

----------


## ThePaleoLibertarian

Amash is finished because he was utterly incapable of reading the room. I hope it was worth it. He's going to lose in a landslide.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> I will join you.   Throwing around white supremacists, Stormfronter, etc. is a cheap shot when losing the argument.  If such a label is believed, it can ruin a person's livelihood. 
> 
>  If name calling is not allowed, the mods should  seriously consider the ramifications of letting someone claim that this forum is taken over by stormfront members.
> 
>  Not only is that name calling, but it is serious slander against the membership and can ruin the reputation of this forum.


There's only about 3 forum members on my ignore list, and the only way to get on it regardless of how badly I disagree with you is to constantly throw out the race-card as an attempt to declare victory in a debate. Zippy was on there for a while but not because of that, just because for a while when Trump got elected I kept coming to RonPaulForums thinking I had mistakenly typed MSNBC.com into the address bar, and that got old quick. The re-post MSM article spam was too much. Even he wasn't as bad as CPUd.

----------


## juleswin

> See this is why you aren't worth arguing with because you always choose to ignore facts that you don't want to believe.


What are you talking about? I was commenting on your very loose correlation between jobs and abortion and I was only trying to tell you how little effect jobs have on people's desire to have an abortion. And instead of you to stop arguing, u then shift it to low unemployment under Trumps admin. This is a point I actually agree with u on.  Maybe if you stopped moving goal posts, it won't be that hard to have a civil debate with a forum m8.

----------


## nikcers

> What are you talking about? I was commenting on your very loose correlation between jobs and abortion and I was only trying to tell you how little effect jobs have on people's desire to have an abortion. And instead of you to stop arguing, u then shift it to low unemployment under Trumps admin. This is a point I actually agree with u on.  Maybe if you stopped moving goal posts, it won't be that hard to have a civil debate with a forum m8.


Having a steady source of income and self satisfcation is a huge contributor on whether or not people have kids atleast in western cultures like America.

----------


## Superfluous Man

> First bad rep I've ever given. 
> 
> You from the Democratic Underground or something?


Why do you object to my saying that? AF didn't.

----------


## nikcers

> Why do you object to my saying that? AF didn't.


If western civalization is so toxic amd full of hatred why are so many people wanting to come here?

----------


## juleswin

> Having a steady source of income and self satisfcation is a huge contributor on whether or not people have kids atleast in western cultures like America.


In a welfare system state like we have, money is not that much of a factor. You have section 8, food stamps, children's food stamps, child income tax credit and if all of that is not enough, u have adoption/foster care system. I would bet that no more than 5% of abortion is done mainly because of financial reasons. It's just not a big factor in this western country

----------


## nikcers

> In a welfare system state like we have, money is not that much of a factor. You have section 8, food stamps, children's food stamps, child income tax credit and if all of that is not enough, u have adoption/foster care system. I would bet that no more than 5% of abortion is done mainly because of financial reasons. It's just not a big factor in this western country


Why do you think there is a child income tax credit?

----------


## Superfluous Man

> Are you blind to anything that makes Trump look good?  He is defunding planned parenthood and appointing pro-life federal judges.  Here you go:  https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...703-story.html


His SCOTUS appointees are nothing special by GOP standards. On the abortion issue Kavanaugh in particular is mediocre at best, and quite possibly much worse. I like the defunding, but it looks like something that can be easily gotten around, and like most other symbolic pro-life gestures I've gotten used to seeing from Republicans, may not actually accomplish anything.

----------


## Superfluous Man

> If western civalization is so toxic amd full of hatred why are so many people wanting to come here?


Where did you get the idea that I would say anything like that about western civilization? Did you confuse me with someone else?

----------


## Superfluous Man

> Lowest unemployment in history, people abort babies because they can't afford them.


It's not the lowest in history. Anyway, I asked what Trump had done.

----------


## nikcers

> It's not the lowest in history. Anyway, I asked what Trump had done.


I'm not going to list a bunch of things just for you to say you don't believe it. Haters gonna hate I guess.

----------


## Superfluous Man

> I'm not going to list a bunch of things just for you to say you don't believe it. Haters gonna hate I guess.


Well, I mean since the question was about pro-life things Trump had done that were different than what other Republicans had done, and the one best answer you can come up with was not close to an answer, that already kinda shows that there really isn't anything.

Probably the best answer would be choosing Pence as his VP. From a pro-life POV, I guess that would be worth a point.

----------


## Ender

> I love you, even though you don't agree with me about Trumps motivations or understand that Trumps opposition is worse than he is, and I will fight to the death for your right to say and believe whatever you want.


Backatcha, my friend.

----------


## susano

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


Fan is not a word I'd use. The answer regarding his support, imho, is because we're facing a total takeover by Marxists.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> As I suspected, he wants to retire, and apparently he is going down in a blaze of glory on his way out the door.


A splash of disgrace.

----------


## susano

> Wrong.  I see the whole $#@! house coming down at some point.  Im trying to delay it for the sake of my family and neighbors.  
> 
> Trump is a blessing compared to Hillary and has allowed us some time and a fighting chance.   Now we need to fight smart if we wish to right this without the violent revolution some here seem to lust over. 
> 
> The needle is in a much better position than I could have imagined a few years ago. The life of the unborn being the most important. 
> 
> For the time remaining, Im going to support men who have an actual chance at fixing things in the current state things are in now.  I dont idolize him, but he happens to be the best President in my lifetime in slowing down the collapse and I do support him even as I dont support him on certain things.  
> 
> Its the left and the fakestream media who is brainwashing people into thinking that if there is one single reason why you think Trump is bad, then you have to support the other party and hate him. 
> ...



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TER again.


People really ought to  read some first hand accounts of the Bolshevik revolution in order to fully grasp what we're up against. We've reached the tipping point and are out of time. Were I to wait around for my ideal candidate, I'd be looking like this:

----------


## susano

> Why do you object to my saying that? AF didn't.


I don't object to your saying anything. I simply disagree with your implication that AF is a Nazi

----------


## Superfluous Man

> I don't object to your saying anything. I simply disagree with your implication that AF is a Nazi


I didn't imply that he was a Nazi. Not all stormfronters are Nazis. But he is a white nationalist. And I don't think he pretends otherwise. Aren't you one too?

----------


## ProBlue33

> Why are there so many trump fans here now?
> Did all the smart people give up and move to the woods after 2012?


So many people are so high on their self-righteous standards they don't care if Trump wins or loses, and they only see the now, but some at RPF saw the long game, which even now is being played out.
The country is so badly divided everything is being challenged in court even basic political issues that any American administration should be able to decide. Even questions on a national census, how crazy is that?
The end game for real power in America is the supreme court, why do you think the DNC is fighting so hard to stop Trumps picks. If he wins again he will tilt the scales for decades. A left leaning court could strike down many things libertarians hold dear, even reinterpret the 2nd amendment like Harris is talking about making an executive order to ban guns in some form, that goes to the supreme, and you want conservative judges striking that down as unconstitutional, not some liberals saying "what the founders really meant was only the modern equivalent of the Militia which is the National Guard can own weapons". If that ever happened you might even have a second civil war or military coup as LEO's and current military and ex-military would never willing give up their personal guns in many states.

The long game of power in America is the supreme court, it's sad it has come to this, but it started when they basically picked Bush over Gore in 2000.
I see it and many on RPF see it, as Brain said Trump is a "Douchebag".....BUT if he is picking conservative leaning judges...much can be forgiven.
And really better him, than all these fools that want to give free health care to all illegal immigrants, but some poor 6th generation American black kid from Chicago can't even get a broken arm fixed because he doesn't have the proper coverage.

As for Amash he let his personal dealings with his connections in China with his business take precedent over his own party, he perhaps thought there might be chance to get Trump......but how has every other GOP person that tried this in the last 3 years fared....not well, and he thought he was special...even more special than that traitor Romney who also failed at trying to get Trump.

----------


## nikcers

> I didn't imply that he was a Nazi. Not all stormfronters are Nazis. But he is a white nationalist. And I don't think he pretends otherwise. Aren't you one too?


muh racism

----------


## susano

> So, using that same logic, this is the reason the Wall hasn't been built:
> *If Trump thinks migrants in the U.S. illegally are dangerous, why has he hired so many of them?*
> ttps://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-2-enter-the-fray-if-trump-thinks-undocumented-migrants-1546619872-htmlstory.htmlhttps://www.thedailybeast.com/tiny-costa-rica-town-full-of-undocumented-workers-at-trumps-new-jersey-golf-course-wapo
> https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/42...mp-golf-course


I agree with you on that point and have always felt that Trump completely misses the mark (what's new?) when making his case about illegals. Yes, some are dangerous and we don't need foreign criminals on top of the ones we already have but, the real threat with uncontrolled immigration is a burgeoning underclass of poor people who are going to crash our system, Cloward & Piven style. If this isn't stopped, it's going to be one big plantation of peasants who are going to vote for Marxists based upon false promises of getting piece of the pie. IWO, the US will become California, a one party state that's quickly becoming a real sh*thole - unless you're filthy rich.

----------


## susano

> I didn't imply that he was a Nazi. Not all stormfronters are Nazis. But he is a white nationalist. And I don't think he pretends otherwise. Aren't you one too?


I rest my case.

----------


## Swordsmyth

More enemies celebrating the political suicide of one of the best voting records around.


Justin Amash is no longer a House Rep is what this should be titled, it is just as sure as if it already happened.

----------


## RonZeplin

> More enemies celebrating the political suicide of one of the best voting records around.
> 
> 
> Justin Amash is no longer a House Rep is what this should be titled, it is just as sure as if it already happened.


Fake News from Mz Cleo.

----------


## susano

> Just for the record, the last 3 president we had railed against the wars. Bush said he did not want to be the world's police man, Obama criticized the Iraq war mistake, and same goes for Trump. If that is what convinced you then you haven't been paying attention. How is it that people are still falling for this trick?


While I'll admit that Trump's sabre rattling and appointing neocons has made me extremely nervous, has he gotten us into a war? Bush destroyed Iraq and mired the US in Afghanistan and Obama oversaw the the destruction of Iraq and Syria and the coup in Ukraine. Trump actually troops out of Syria - against a lot of pressure in the other direction.  Sometimes I wonder if his bombastic talk and brinkmanship isn't all just "Art of the Deal". It certainly looks that way with North Korea. So, I'm not seeing anything like the destruction brought upon the world by Bush and Obama.

----------


## susano

> Lowest unemployment in history, people abort babies because they can't afford them.


No. That may be part of the reason for some, that's way too simplistic. Further, the poorer people are, the more kids they tend to produce. The more affluent a society becomes, the birthrate drops.

----------


## susano

> You think the sizeable number of women who abort their children do so because they can't afford it? I thought the welfare system in this country took care of that and birth control and condoms are way cheaper than abortions. This is just not true.
> 
> I present to you pro life Donald Trump


Have you ever changed your mind in your life? How about changed any opinions you held in 1999? Trump seems to have re-thought or actually thought deeply about this issue and sincerely changed his position.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> His SCOTUS appointees are nothing special by GOP standards. On the abortion issue Kavanaugh in particular is mediocre at best, and quite possibly much worse. I like the defunding, but it looks like something that can be easily gotten around, and like most other symbolic pro-life gestures I've gotten used to seeing from Republicans, may not actually accomplish anything.


Gorsuch is the best and most libertarian member of the court and Kavanaugh is a distinct improvement over Kennedy who wouldn't have retired if he didn't get to choose Kavanaugh.

----------


## susano

> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6415322
> 
> 
> 
> He is literally an ally of the MSM.


Wow. Thanks for that.

----------


## Ender

> I agree with you on that point and have always felt that Trump completely misses the mark (what's new?) when making his case about illegals. Yes, some are dangerous and we don't need foreign criminals on top of the ones we already have but, the real threat with uncontrolled immigration is a burgeoning underclass of poor people who are going to crash our system, Cloward & Piven style. If this isn't stopped, it's going to be one big plantation of peasants who are going to vote for Marxists based upon false promises of getting piece of the pie. IWO, the US will become California, a one party state that's quickly becoming a real sh*thole - unless you're filthy rich.


My comment on another post:

*All the rabble about socialism/communists etc is a ruse to keep us all fighting with each other while the last vestige of liberty blows away. Everyone is so indoctrinated & so in the Matrix that they fight to keep their prison walls secure, w/o a clue where they really are.*

There will be no freedom until the name-calling/finger-pointing stops & we start working together. We don't have to agree on everything but the hater-crap has got to stop, or we are lost.

----------


## susano

> My comment on another post:
> 
> *All the rabble about socialism/communists etc is a ruse to keep us all fighting with each other while the last vestige of liberty blows away. Everyone is so indoctrinated & so in the Matrix that they fight to keep their prison walls secure, w/o a clue where they really are.*
> 
> There will be no freedom until the name-calling/finger-pointing stops & we start working together. We don't have to agree on everything but the hater-crap has got to stop, or we are lost.


Okay but are you refuting what I said about the real reason uncontrolled immigration will destroy the US?

----------


## devil21

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TER again.
> 
> 
> People really ought to  read some first hand accounts of the Bolshevik revolution in order to fully grasp what we're up against. We've reached the tipping point and are out of time. Were I to wait around for my ideal candidate, I'd be looking like this:


It's comments like that where I wonder what the hell is going on and whether some people are thinking _at all_?

Trump's history is filled with Bolsheviks, his closest family members in the WH with him are Bolsheviks, his entire cabinet is Bolsheviks.  He spent his entire career donating to Democrats, hanging out with Democrats, making deals with Democrats, being bailed out of failed businesses by elite bankers (who are....surprise!  Bolsheviks!) but suddenly because he says a few things and put the "R" behind his name, he's fighting Bolsheviks?!?!  Do you even know who the Bolsheviks were or do you just regurgitate the word because you heard it on Breitbart?

What on earth are you people smoking???  This isn't even about avoiding the more evil choice.  It's not about sitting around waiting for an ideal candidate.  It's about being even moderately smart enough to recognize, finally, that _there are no choices except Bolsheviks allowed_ any more.  It's amazing how easily some people fall for very, very elementary mind tricks by the political establishment to ensure only their approved candidates get anywhere near positions of (perceived) power.

----------


## nikcers

> It's comments like that where I wonder what the hell is going on and whether some people are thinking _at all_?
> 
> Trump's history is filled with Bolsheviks, his closest family members in the WH with him are Bolsheviks, his entire cabinet is Bolsheviks.  He spent his entire career donating to Democrats, hanging out with Democrats, making deals with Democrats, being bailed out of failed businesses by elite bankers (who are....surprise!  Bolsheviks!) but suddenly because he says a few things and put the "R" behind his name, he's fighting Bolsheviks?!?!  Do you even know who the Bolsheviks were or do you just regurgitate the word because you heard it on Breitbart?
> 
> What on earth are you people smoking???  This isn't even about avoiding the more evil choice.  It's not about sitting around waiting for an ideal candidate.  It's about being even moderately smart enough to recognize, finally, that _there are no choices except Bolsheviks allowed_ any more.  It's amazing how easily some people fall for very, very elementary mind tricks by the political establishment to ensure only their approved candidates get anywhere near positions of (perceived) power.


You can sit around and wait for the perfect person to come along for the rest of your life. I see a real debate going on right now. One side wants to rewrite the constitution, rewrite history, get rid of capitalism, I am going to do everything I can to stop it. You can sit around waiting for the perfect candidate.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It's comments like that where I wonder what the hell is going on and whether some people are thinking _at all_?
> 
> Trump's history is filled with Bolsheviks, his closest family members in the WH with him are Bolsheviks, his entire cabinet is Bolsheviks.  He spent his entire career donating to Democrats, hanging out with Democrats, making deals with Democrats, being bailed out of failed businesses by elite bankers (who are....surprise!  Bolsheviks!) but suddenly because he says a few things and put the "R" behind his name, he's fighting Bolsheviks?!?!  Do you even know who the Bolsheviks were or do you just regurgitate the word because you heard it on Breitbart?
> 
> What on earth are you people smoking???  This isn't even about avoiding the more evil choice.  It's not about sitting around waiting for an ideal candidate.  It's about being even moderately smart enough to recognize, finally, that _there are no choices except Bolsheviks allowed_ any more.  It's amazing how easily some people fall for very, very elementary mind tricks by the political establishment to ensure only their approved candidates get anywhere near positions of (perceived) power.


Trump's results speak loudly in his favor, they are not ideal but they are an overall benefit to liberty.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

----------


## devil21

> You can sit around and wit for the perfect person to come along for the rest of your life. I see a real debate going on right now. One side wants to rewrite the constitution, rewrite history, get rid of capitalism, I am going to do everything I can to stop it. You can sit around waiting for the perfect candidate.


You didn't even read my post, since your reply was exactly what I was referring to, but that's to be expected from the resident Trump psyops team.




> Trump's results speak loudly in his favor, they are not ideal but they are an overall benefit to liberty.
> 
> By their fruits ye shall know them.


There are no results.  Everything is moving along as planned while conservatives sit around on their asses.  Global socialist Agenda 21 2030 continues on....and Trump says precisely zero about it.  Not a word.  Ever.  That's intentional...because he's one of them and fully supports it.  If I ever saw a Trump tweet that so much as mentioned Agenda 21 2030 in a negative light I'd have a heart attack from shock.  I'd have a heart attack if he even mentioned it _at all_.

----------


## nikcers

> You didn't even read my post, since your reply was exactly what I was referring to, but that's to be expected from the resident Trump psyops team.


I am not affiliated with Trump, I am an independent thinker.

----------


## Ender

> Okay but are you refuting what I said about the real reason uncontrolled immigration will destroy the US?



Immigration is not & will not destroy the US. TPTB rulers have turned the country into a slave nation.

People should have the freedom to travel, to hire who they want, real capitalism, etc. The balance in this is:

NO ENTITLEMENTS- zip, nada, nein, nyet.
A REASONABLE PATH TO CITIZENSHIP
END THE WoD, THE WoT

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Immigration is not & will not destroy the US. TPTB rulers have turned the country into a slave nation.
> 
> People should have the freedom to travel, to hire who they want, real capitalism, etc. The balance in this is:
> 
> NO ENTITLEMENTS- zip, nada, nein, nyet.
> A REASONABLE PATH TO CITIZENSHIP
> END THE WoD, THE WoT


Nonsense, immigration is one of the primary tools TPTB have used to destroy America as much as it has been destroyed and it is their number one weapon for finishing us off.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You didn't even read my post, since your reply was exactly what I was referring to, but that's to be expected from the resident Trump psyops team.
> 
> 
> 
> There are no results.  Everything is moving along as planned while conservatives sit around on their asses.  Global socialist Agenda 21 2030 continues on....and Trump says precisely zero about it.  Not a word.  Ever.  That's intentional...because he's one of them and fully supports it.  If I ever saw a Trump tweet that so much as mentioned Agenda 21 2030 in a negative light I'd have a heart attack from shock.  I'd have a heart attack if he even mentioned it _at all_.


LOL

----------


## devil21

> LOL


That's it?  That's all you got?  Can't waste time replying because 1) there is no reply because I'm absolutely correct and 2) you have to rotate to other accounts for other posts.  It's why the Trump psyops team here at RPF's replies are always only a sentence or two or less.  Can't spend any time focused on one post when there's multiple accounts to switch between and so many threads and posts to reply to to keep up the psyop.

----------


## devil21

It would be so awesome for Amash to switch to the Libertarian Party and still win and become, afaik, the first Libertarian Party congressman in history.  He can do it, too.  He's got what most Libertarian candidates don't.  Name recognition, a constituent following, outside support and the general dislike of Trump from everyone other than the Fox News bots.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> That's it?  That's all you got?  Can't waste time replying because 1) there is no reply because I'm absolutely correct and 2) you have to rotate to other accounts for other posts.  It's why the Trump psyops team here at RPF's replies are always only a sentence or two or less.  Can't spend any time focused on one post when there's multiple accounts to switch between and so many threads and posts to reply to to keep up the psyop.


That's all that post deserved, Trump has lots of results and he doesn't have to know about or talk about your favorite issue to be a net positive for liberty.

All you've got is ridiculous lies both about Trump and now about me.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It would be so awesome for Amash to switch to the Libertarian Party and still win and become, afaik, the first Libertarian Party congressman in history.  He can do it, too.  He's got what most Libertarian candidates don't.  Name recognition, a constituent following, outside support and the general dislike of Trump from everyone other than the Fox News bots.


He's got no support since he endorsed the treasonous coup, he's going to go down in flames.

Your TDS has completely distorted your world view.

----------


## UWDude

> Global socialist Agenda 21 2030 continues on.....


That sounds like something Alex Jones bullhorned into the American consciousness.

I only know of three presidential candidates who EVER went on Alex Jones's show:

Rand Paul, Ron Paul, and Donald J Trump.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Rep. Justin Amash, the only congressional Republican who publicly argues  that President Donald Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct,  announced Thursday he is quitting the GOP.
> 
> "Today, I am declaring my independence and leaving the Republican  Party," Amash wrote in a Washington Post op-ed Thursday morning. "No  matter your circumstance, I'm asking you to join me in rejecting the  partisan loyalties and rhetoric that divide and dehumanize us. I'm  asking you to believe that we can do better than this two-party system   and to work toward it. If we continue to take America for granted, we  will lose it."
> Amash didn't mention the President by name, but his decision to abandon  the party comes after months of escalating criticism not just of the  President but of his own colleagues for their failure to hold Trump to  account, specifically for the actions detailed in special counsel Robert  Mueller's report on the 2016 election and its aftermath.


*YES!*

God speed Amash, you are the best politician in the country. 

Ron would be proud. 

*WIN!*

----------


## susano

> It's comments like that where I wonder what the hell is going on and whether some people are thinking _at all_?
> 
> Trump's history is filled with Bolsheviks, his closest family members in the WH with him are Bolsheviks, his entire cabinet is Bolsheviks.  He spent his entire career donating to Democrats, hanging out with Democrats, making deals with Democrats, being bailed out of failed businesses by elite bankers (who are....surprise!  Bolsheviks!) but suddenly because he says a few things and put the "R" behind his name, he's fighting Bolsheviks?!?!  Do you even know who the Bolsheviks were or do you just regurgitate the word because you heard it on Breitbart?
> 
> What on earth are you people smoking???  This isn't even about avoiding the more evil choice.  It's not about sitting around waiting for an ideal candidate.  It's about being even moderately smart enough to recognize, finally, that _there are no choices except Bolsheviks allowed_ any more.  It's amazing how easily some people fall for very, very elementary mind tricks by the political establishment to ensure only their approved candidates get anywhere near positions of (perceived) power.


Well, you're conflating Bolshevik with Jew and that's a good discussion but isn't entirely accurate. Yes, I know what Bolshevik means and have had a long interest in the history of Marxism/communism and Russia. And, a big "naw" on Breitbart because it's too pro Jewish to be educating anyone about the Bolsheviks. 

If you seriously think that Trump is some tool of "Bolsheviks", do tell why real communists like John Brennan were so hell bent on getting rid of him. Why isn't the commie EU falling all over Trump? Why do the internationalists hate his guts? Maybe you're confusing Donald Trump with his nitwit daughter, Ivanka, who DOES spend her time trying to suck up the NWO internationalists.

----------


## devil21

> That sounds like something Alex Jones bullhorned into the American consciousness.
> 
> I only know of three presidential candidates who EVER went on Alex Jones's show:
> 
> Rand Paul, Ron Paul, and Donald J Trump.


That has nothing whatsoever to do with my post but thanks for trying.  Collect your $3.50.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

*AMASH*, organize a money bomb.

We've been languishing in Trumptarded inactivity. 

Give us something to do. 

Rally the troops - there aren't as many as there once were, but we're still here.

...waiting for something worthwhile to *DO*.

----------


## susano

> You didn't even read my post, since your reply was exactly what I was referring to, but that's to be expected from the resident Trump psyops team.
> 
> 
> 
> There are no results.  Everything is moving along as planned while conservatives sit around on their asses.  Global socialist Agenda 21 2030 continues on....and Trump says precisely zero about it.  Not a word.  Ever.  That's intentional...because he's one of them and fully supports it.  If I ever saw a Trump tweet that so much as mentioned Agenda 21 2030 in a negative light I'd have a heart attack from shock.  I'd have a heart attack if he even mentioned it _at all_.



The Trump psyops team? Maybe you could elaborate on that. 

Trump pulled the US out of the terrible Paris Climate Accord, which was a commie dream to rope the US into that garbage. He pulled the US out of the TPP and has been relentless in his efforts to establish sane trade policies after internationalists virtually gave our manufacturing economy away. He has refused to be dragged into the war in Syria, in spite of pressure from the internationalists to finish that country off and remove Assad.

----------


## devil21

> Well, you're conflating Bolshevik with Jew and that's a good discussion but isn't entirely accurate. Yes, I know what Bolshevik means and have had a long interest in the history of Marxism/communism and Russia. And, a big "naw" on Breitbart because it's too pro Jewish to be educating anyone about the Bolsheviks. 
> 
> If you seriously think that Trump is some tool of "Bolsheviks", do tell why real communists like John Brennan were so hell bent on getting rid of him. Why isn't the commie EU falling all over Trump? Why do the internationalists hate his guts? Maybe you're confusing Donald Trump with his nitwit daughter, Ivanka, who DOES spend her time trying to suck up the NWO internationalists.


Speaking of falling for very, very elementary mind tricks.  Brennan getting rid of him?  Who told you that?  Must be true cuz it was on da teevee news?  The internationalists don't hate his guts.  If he was talking about Agenda 21 2030 then they'd hate his guts.  But he doesn't and does everything they need him to do.  Maybe SS is right that Trump really is clueless about Agenda 21 2030.  If that's the case then he's not fit for the office for reasons of _pure ignorance_.  Then again, maybe that's why he's there?  Kinda blows the whole 4D chess thing outta the water though.  Can't claim ignorance and genius at the same time...

Bolsheviks are Jesuits, not Jews.  But they like it that you think they're just "Jews".  Makes it easy to dismiss any mention of the topic as "anti-semitism".

----------


## UWDude

> Trump's history is filled with Bolsheviks, his closest family members in the WH with him are Bolsheviks, his entire cabinet is Bolsheviks.  He spent his entire career donating to Democrats, hanging out with Democrats, making deals with Democrats, being bailed out of failed businesses by elite bankers (who are....surprise!  Bolsheviks!) but suddenly because he says a few things and put the "R" behind his name, he's fighting Bolsheviks?!?!  Do you even know who the Bolsheviks were or do you just regurgitate the word because you heard it on Breitbart?


Trump donated to all the R's too.

Now Breitbart and Fox must be the big bad guys, brainwashing all those who will not bend to your watertight logics and wordsmytheries!



> There will be no freedom until the name-calling/finger-pointing stops & we start working together. We don't have to agree on everything but the hater-crap has got to stop, or we are lost.


Oh please.  

To work with you, I'd first have to agree with your premise "they are all the same".

Nope.  The left is quite literally insane now. 
The left has become a bunch of television watching, social media addicted, drug addicted zombies who believe everything the experts and TED talks (and TEDx talks) tells them.  They have begun to try and tell me men can have periods, because science.

I thought I'd never, ever side with republicans again.  I scoffed when Ron Paul said people should run within the republican party.

I don't care about socialism vs capitalism.  I don't even think single payer healthcare would be the end of the world. I am 100% pro-choice.  

But I do care about the first amendment. I care about that more than anything.

And the left is that boot looking to stomp on my face... ..forever.

I'll not have it.  And everything they are doing right now is war, in my eyes.
So I don't care about their rights, at all.

They are trying to cut out my tongue, and the tongues of my countrymen.
They are trying to take my weapons, and the weapons of my countrymen.

Therefore, if the time ever comes when martial law falls, and the left is rounded up, and thrown onto trains, and they cry for my support of their rights, my only response for them will be "don't forget your soap and towels".

----------


## susano

> That's all that post deserved, Trump has lots of results and he doesn't have to know about or talk about your favorite issue to be a net positive for liberty.
> 
> All you've got is ridiculous lies both about Trump and now about me.


It looks like he's on to us and knows that all of the usernames here who voted for Trump are really one person with multiple socks. Pretty sharp, eh?

----------


## susano

> Immigration is not & will not destroy the US. TPTB rulers have turned the country into a slave nation.
> 
> People should have the freedom to travel, to hire who they want, real capitalism, etc. The balance in this is:
> 
> NO ENTITLEMENTS- zip, nada, nein, nyet.
> A REASONABLE PATH TO CITIZENSHIP
> END THE WoD, THE WoT


Yeah, right. It was eastern European commie immigrants who infiltrated this country and spread Marxism. They completely control public "education" - hence the retards on all of the campuses. They control the media and they are behind the push for no borders and mass migration. And, yeah, it WILL destroy the US. See Sweden.

----------


## devil21

> The Trump psyops team? Maybe you could elaborate on that.


No need.  Everyone knows what I'm talking about.




> Trump pulled the US out of the terrible Paris Climate Accord, which was a commie dream to rope the US into that garbage.


Who told you that?  If you took even a moment to research your claim you'd see that _we're still in it_ and can't exit until Trump's next potential election day lol.  But it's too much work to actually research something before you regurgitate it, eh?  The teevee said it so must be true.




> He pulled the US out of the TPP and has been relentless in his efforts to establish sane trade policies after internationalists virtually gave our manufacturing economy away. He has refused to be dragged into the war in Syria, in spite of pressure from the internationalists to finish that country off and remove Assad.


I'm not going to spend any time researching the intricacies of the TPP claim since you didn't even get the Paris Accord claim correct.

----------


## Ender

> Nonsense, immigration is one of the primary tools TPTB have used to destroy America as much as it has been destroyed and it is their number one weapon for finishing us off.


It's one of the primary tools use by TPTB to divide everyone & take their eye off what is really happening. We are NOT losing freedoms because of Immigrants- we are losing freedoms because of ignorance.

*Paul Craig Roberts:*



> In the US the rule of law, and with it liberty, have been lost. With few exceptions, Americans are too ignorant and unconcerned to do anything about it. The longer the rule of law is set aside, the more difficult it is to reestablish it. Sooner or later the rule of law ceases even as a memory. No candidate in the upcoming election has made the rule of law an issue.
> 
> Americans have become a small-minded divided people, ruled by petty hatreds, who are easily set against one another and against other peoples by their rulers.


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/01/...al-crimes-now/

*If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was or ever will be.*
-Thomas Jefferson-

----------


## susano

> It would be so awesome for Amash to switch to the Libertarian Party and still win and become, afaik, the first Libertarian Party congressman in history.  He can do it, too.  He's got what most Libertarian candidates don't.  Name recognition, a constituent following, outside support and the general dislike of Trump from everyone other than the Fox News bots.


I live in his district and there is no way in hell he'll be re-elected.

----------


## jon4liberty

> Not all is what it appears to be on RPF, or other websites for that matter.  A lot of shills and bots pushing Trump worship mind control psyops.  These days one person can literally control 5 or more accounts at once using VMWare (Virtual Machine softWare) and it look like 5 different posters.  You've probably noticed the bizarre transformation of long time RP supporting accounts turning into Trump authoritarian supporters.  Not all is what it appears to be.


We just grew up and saw the real world and are taking realistic approaches in a more pragmatic way.  No bot here. Im an old school daily paul guy.  Made my fair share of donations and help with campaigns

----------


## nikcers

> It looks like he's on to us and knows that all of the usernames here who voted for Trump are really one person with multiple socks. Pretty sharp, eh?


Multiple socks, thats rich, I'm lucky if mine don't have holes in them.

----------


## Ender

> Yeah, right. It was eastern European commie immigrants who infiltrated this country and spread Marxism. They completely control public "education" - hence the retards on all of the campuses. They control the media and they are behind the push for no borders and mass migration. And, yeah, it WILL destroy the US. See Sweden.


Immigrants have not destroyed Sweden- I have friends who live there & most the press garbage is....garbage. They do have a terrible government though- & that's not the fault of immigration- just ask Assange.

AND the school system was set up purposely to make us all compliant factory workers.

----------


## TER

> We just grew up and saw the real world and are taking realistic approaches in a more pragmatic way.  No bot here. Im an old school daily paul guy.  Made my fair share of donations and help with campaigns


Nope. Your opinion is invalid. You are obviously a shill bot in the grand conspiracy.  /s

----------


## UWDude

> Immigrants have not destroyed Sweden- I have friends who live there & most the press garbage is....garbage.


Don't forget Ender also has a family member who was molested, therefore, all the sexual assault allegations against Trump are true.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

In 20 years a cup of coffee is going to cost $500: Venezuela (and, no, idiots, not because of foreigners).

Now, we have a chance to make one last stand: some of us may be able to tell our children that we tried. 

Libertarians  must NOW leave the GOP. this disgusting socialist cabal, and make an  attempt at power, or at least resistance. 

We're running out of hills to die on. 




> We just grew up and saw the real world and are taking realistic approaches in a more pragmatic way.  No bot here. Im an old school daily paul guy.  Made my fair share of donations and help with campaigns


Wake up and do it again, one last time.

----------


## Ender

> Don't forget Ender also has a family member who was molested, therefore, all the sexual assault allegations against Trump are true.


No decent argument so you pull stuff from 3 years ago. BOO. HOO.

----------


## UWDude

> No decent argument so you pull stuff from 3 years ago. BOO. HOO.


Your Swedish friend anecdote isn't a decent argument.  

That was the point.

----------


## devil21

> We just grew up and saw the real world and are taking realistic approaches in a more pragmatic way.  No bot here. Im an old school daily paul guy.  Made my fair share of donations and help with campaigns


You sound reasonable.  I don't have a problem with reasonable people.  However, my post is still accurate about ongoing shill psyops on this forum and others.  Not all Trump supporters are part of it and I'm always happy to debate issues, since that is what politics is, but if you've spent enough time on the net the patterns and signs of shill ops emerge pretty clearly.

----------


## fcreature

> You sound reasonable.  I don't have a problem with reasonable people.  However, my post is still accurate about ongoing shill psyops on this forum and others.  Not all Trump supporters are part of it and I'm always happy to debate issues, since that is what politics is, but if you've spent enough time on the net the patterns and signs of shill ops emerge pretty clearly.


Can you name some names?

----------


## susano

> Speaking of falling for very, very elementary mind tricks.  Brennan getting rid of him?  Who told you that?  Must be true cuz it was on da teevee news?  The internationalists don't hate his guts.  If he was talking about Agenda 21 2030 then they'd hate his guts.  But he doesn't and does everything they need him to do.  Maybe SS is right that Trump really is clueless about Agenda 21 2030.  If that's the case then he's not fit for the office for reasons of _pure ignorance_.  Then again, maybe that's why he's there?  Kinda blows the whole 4D chess thing outta the water though.  Can't claim ignorance and genius at the same time...
> 
> Bolsheviks are Jesuits, not Jews.  But they like it that you think they're just "Jews".  Makes it easy to dismiss any mention of the topic as "anti-semitism".


What mental hospital are you posting from?

----------


## UWDude

> Can you name some names?


He thinks my account has been taken over somehow, and injected with a Trump shill.
Because I used to be a leftist SJW, but now I am a pro-Trump fascist (oh wait, but Trump is a leftist fascist according to him, so they replaced one leftist with another leftist, I dunno, so complicated, Vatican, I guess.)

He also thinks Swordsmyth is a paid shill.

----------


## susano

> Trump donated to all the R's too.
> 
> Now Breitbart and Fox must be the big bad guys, brainwashing all those who will not bend to your watertight logics and wordsmytheries!
> 
> 
> Oh please.  
> 
> To work with you, I'd first have to agree with your premise "they are all the same".
> 
> ...


When, during the first R debate, Trump said, "we have to get rid of this political correctness", I was thrilled that SOMEBODY running for office _finally_ addressed it.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

Does anyone remember the good old days?






This can be done again; but it requires balls, and telling the current GOP President to go get $#@!ed.

----------


## devil21

> What mental hospital are you posting from?


Shouldn't you be researching your fantasy Paris Climate Accord claim instead of still posting on this thread?

This is what irks me about Trumpkins.  No research on anything.  Not two seconds to determine if anything they regurgitate is factual.  Just spit out bs and when called out act like it never happened.  And then they call others "NPCs" .  What's really happened to many Trumpkins (not the shill ops) is that they have become like Trump himself.  A pathological lying blowhard that can't be bothered with silly things like facts.  Just spout off nonsense, insults and ad hominem and act like that's a winning argument.  It's a sign that this country really has devolved to Idiocracy level.




> Can you name some names?


Nope, that's a ban offense.  Some are more obvious than others but I can say that I was once offered compensation to give up my account.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Read it and weep:
> *Why Most People Embrace the State — And Why Some Will Always Reject It*
> By Murray N. Rothbard


Rothbard takes 1000 words to say what Jefferson and I can say in four lines:

People don't want freedom: they want to be fed, entertained and exercise petty power over their fellow man.

People become accustomed to tyranny and, even when suffering under despotism, are unlikely to change what they have become accustomed to.

Therefore the enemy of liberty is universal suffrage: to maintain liberty you must restrict as many of the knuckleheads that make up most of idiot humanity from voting.

You also must not allow the nation to be flooded with even greater numbers of semi retarded knuckleheads from every dank $#@!hole on the planet.

----------


## Ender

> Your Swedish friend anecdote isn't a decent argument.  
> 
> That was the point.


You mean if Susano talks about Sweden I can't say what my friends there have told me?  

Whodda thunk!

----------


## dannno

> I didn't imply that he was a Nazi. Not all stormfronters are Nazis. But he is a white nationalist. And I don't think he pretends otherwise. Aren't you one too?


First of all, AF doesn't hate Jewish people, you have to hate Jewish people to be a stormfronter I think. 

A white nationalist is somebody who wants to live in a country of only white people. I think AF is more about not having hoards of third world folks coming in and voting for socialism. That's not really white nationalism, that is slowing down immigration to help protect the eroding cultural identity.

----------


## UWDude

> You mean if Susano talks about Sweden I can't say what my friends there have told me?  
> 
> Whodda thunk!


The conversation, you started, was decent arguments, and what makes them. 

the conversation was not what you can and can not say.

If you want to have that conversation, it will not be long.  Say what you wish.  Be my guest.

----------


## UWDude

> Nope, that's a ban offense.  Some are more obvious than others but I can say that I was once offered compensation to give up my account.


LoL!!

Who the hell would want your account?  Who offered you money?  How much?  XD  

What a bunch of BS.

----------


## Ender

> Rothbard takes 1000 words to say what Jefferson and I can say in four lines:
> 
> People don't want freedom: they want to be fed, entertained and exercise petty power over their fellow man.
> 
> People become accustomed to tyranny and, even when suffering under despotism, are unlikely to change what they have become accustomed to.
> 
> Therefore the enemy of liberty is universal suffrage: to maintain liberty you must restrict as many of the knuckleheads that make up most of idiot humanity from voting.
> 
> You also must not allow the nation to be flooded with even greater numbers of semi retarded knuckleheads from every dank $#@!hole on the planet.


I agree with most people not wanting freedom- I disagree that it is dem brown peep's fault. The fault is in TPTB & public edumacation, which pushes all the anti-freedom crap. They want us to hate each other so we will fight our supposed enemies w/o ever knowing who the REAL enemy is.

----------


## nikcers

> I agree with most people not wanting freedom- I disagree that it is dem brown peep's fault. The fault is in TPTB & public edumacation, which pushes all the anti-freedom crap. They want us to hate each other so we will fight our supposed enemies w/o ever knowing who the REAL enemy is.


Most people don't want freedom- but more people who don't want freedom doesn't tip the odds at all? Nice Washington math.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It's comments like that where I wonder what the hell is going on and whether some people are thinking _at all_?
> 
> Trump's history is filled with Bolsheviks, his closest family members in the WH with him are Bolsheviks, his entire cabinet is Bolsheviks.  He spent his entire career donating to Democrats, hanging out with Democrats, making deals with Democrats, being bailed out of failed businesses by elite bankers (who are....surprise!  Bolsheviks!) but suddenly because he says a few things and put the "R" behind his name, he's fighting Bolsheviks?!?!  Do you even know who the Bolsheviks were or do you just regurgitate the word because you heard it on Breitbart?
> 
> What on earth are you people smoking???  This isn't even about avoiding the more evil choice.  It's not about sitting around waiting for an ideal candidate.  It's about being even moderately smart enough to recognize, finally, that _there are no choices except Bolsheviks allowed_ any more.  It's amazing how easily some people fall for very, very elementary mind tricks by the political establishment to ensure only their approved candidates get anywhere near positions of (perceived) power.


Jesus weeping Christ on a cross...I can't speak for everybody, *but I don't give a frog's fat ass about Trump.*

I'll give him some faint praise if he lands a Drunken Monkey punch in the right direction, but that's about it.

The *only* thing Trump has done that has *anything* at all to do with what I'm worked about, is that he has flushed the neo-bolsheviks/neo-Jacobins/Fash bashers/anti-racists out into the open.

And these people want me and mine *dead*, $#@!ing *genocided*, mass $#@!ing grave *for real*...you savvy?

----------


## devil21

> LoL!!
> 
> Who the hell would want your account?  Who offered you money?  How much?  XD  
> 
> What a bunch of BS.


The user handle was *compromise*.  I'm sure some of the old members remember that name.

It wasn't even an offer of money.  It was for a subscription to Glenn Beck's website lol.  Cheap ass grifters gonna cheap ass grift, I guess.

----------


## susano

> No need.  Everyone knows what I'm talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> Who told you that?  If you took even a moment to research your claim you'd see that _we're still in it_ and can't exit until Trump's next potential election day lol.  But it's too much work to actually research something before you regurgitate it, eh?  The teevee said it so must be true.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to spend any time researching the intricacies of the TPP claim since you didn't even get the Paris Accord claim correct.



The accord isn't worth the paper it's written on, as far as the US is concerned, because it's never been ratified as a treaty. Without ratification, it's nothing but voluntary actions and promises. While the globalists (as always) claim nobody can withdraw, there are no teeth. Their three years or whatever it is will pass without senate ratification because Trump. I'm sure some like California will voluntarily remain in the agreement (not treaty) and send billions to Africa but the federal government will not be in any treaty obligation to do so.

----------


## devil21

> Jesus weeping Christ on cross...I can't speak for everybody, *but I don't give frog's fat ass about Trump.*
> 
> I'll give him some faint praise if he lands a Drunken Monkey punch in the right direction, but that's about it.
> 
> The *only* thing Trump has done that has *anything* at all to do with what I'm worked about, is that he has flushed the neo-bolsheviks/neo-Jacobins/Fash bashers/anti-racists out into the open.
> 
> And these people want me and mine *dead*, $#@!ing *genocided*, mass $#@!ing grave *for real*...you savvy?


This is the disconnect for me.  How is he flushing them out by surrounding himself with them and never attacking them?  Who surrounds themselves with the people you're (supposedly) openly sabotaging?  Is he flushing out his son-in-law?  His daughter Yael?  One thing about Trump is that he demands strict loyalty from people he surrounds himself with.  How does that jive with flushing them out for sabotage?  That makes no sense, especially when history shows quite clearly that those in the Oval Office who try to sabotage the Bolsheviks end up with a bullet in the head!

Then again, there's still plenty of time left for that to happen...so...

----------


## nikcers

> This is the disconnect for me.  How is he flushing them out by surrounding himself with them and never attacking them?  Who surrounds themselves with the people you're (supposedly) openly sabotaging?  Is he flushing out his son-in-law?  His daughter Yael?  One thing about Trump is that he demands strict loyalty from people he surrounds himself with.  How does that jive with flushing them out for sabotage?  That makes no sense, especially when history shows quite clearly that those in the Oval Office who try to sabotage the Bolsheviks end up with a bullet in the head!
> 
> Then again, there's still plenty of time left for that to happen...so...


Imagine you have enemies that want to blow up your car while you are in it. Do they blow up your car if they are in it with you?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I agree with most people not wanting freedom- I disagree that it is dem brown peep's fault.


There is a container ship load of polling and voting data that indicates, well, yes, it *is* "dem brown peeps" fault.

In that "dem brown peeps" vote consistently for larger, more intrusive government.

Women do this as well.

Denying the problem won't make it go away.




> The fault is in TPTB & public edumacation, which pushes all the anti-freedom crap. They want us to hate each other so we will fight our supposed enemies w/o ever knowing who the REAL enemy is.


No doubt.

But knowing that is meaningless when under attack.

----------


## devil21

> The accord isn't worth the paper it's written on, as far as the US is concerned, because it's never been ratified as a treaty. Without ratification, it's nothing but voluntary actions and promises. While the globalists (as always) claim nobody can withdraw, there are no teeth. Their three years or whatever it is will pass without senate ratification because Trump. I'm sure some like California will voluntarily remain in the agreement (not treaty) and send billions to Africa but the federal government will not be in any treaty obligation to do so.


So your response is that Trump removed us from something that we were never a part of in the first place?  Indeed, very Trump-like.  Maybe instead just admit you were wrong, correct yourself and maybe make a promise to yourself to research your talking points more in the future so you don't repeat falsehoods from the teevee so much.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> This is the disconnect for me.  *How is he flushing them out by surrounding himself with them and never attacking them?*  Who surrounds themselves with the people you're (supposedly) openly sabotaging?  Is he flushing out his son-in-law?  His daughter Yael?  One thing about Trump is that he demands strict loyalty from people he surrounds himself with.  How does that jive with flushing them out for sabotage?  That makes no sense, especially when history shows quite clearly that those in the Oval Office who try to sabotage the Bolsheviks end up with a bullet in the head!
> 
> Then again, there's still plenty of time left for that to happen...so...


He *isn't*...I'm well aware of that...but the new left people are *insane*...they *think* he is...but the fact that really *isn't*, does not *matter* to them.

----------


## UWDude

> Jesus weeping Christ on cross...I can't speak for everybody, *but I don't give frog's fat ass about Trump.*
> 
> I'll give him some faint praise if he lands a Drunken Monkey punch in the right direction, but that's about it.
> 
> The *only* thing Trump has done that has *anything* at all to do with what I'm worked about, is that he has flushed the neo-bolsheviks/neo-Jacobins/Fash bashers/anti-racists out into the open.
> 
> And these people want me and mine *dead*, $#@!ing *genocided*, mass $#@!ing grave *for real*...you savvy?


Im not letting them take the word anti-racist.

I have always been anti-racist.

My 5th grade teacher told us of the propaganda against the huns, leading up to American Entry into World War I.  He hated racism too.
It's how I knew the babies kicked from incubators story was a lie.  

I have called out and seen racism in popular culture for decades.  I remember going on a date and seeing Con Air.  can't remember the girl, can remember being furious at how racist it was (still hate that movie, the southern white idiot saving the fair white woman, and the only one who gets redemption in the end is the white child molester).

I have called Hollywood, and America, racist for decades.  Because it is.
And I hate racism.

Because I always knew there was a chance, racism could be used against me.

But now, racism has truly turned against white people.

And maybe it's the blue federalist in my soul... ....but I truly believe that the shock comes when black men actually come to the rescue of the white men.
Because white men let black men be loud, and sing, and make crazy jokes.  Black people always pushed the envelope of the first amendment on comedy and music.
And I love them for that.

And all this is being taken from us by a bunch of white rich nannies.   I can see them on the plantation porches, fanning themselves to keep from fainting from the constant offense and outrage of words and jokes... ..as they push down a rainbow sign about what they believe, "science" and "no human is illegal".

Reminds me of that American couple killed biking through Turkmenistan recently.
The people who think they have all the answers are naive, pampered intellectuals.
They cannot see the darkness coming for them.  No matter how big their bubbly blue eyes.

Black people are still quite powerless.  So the fight is still mostly a white man vs white man fight.

----------


## nikcers

> There is a container ship load of polling and voting data that indicates, well, yes, it *is* "dem brown peeps" fault.
> 
> In that "dem brown peeps" vote consistently for larger, more intrusive government.
> 
> Women do this as well.
> 
> Denying the problem won't make it go away.
> 
> 
> ...


It really doesn't matter if you can't even communicate with the people who you want to change their minds either. If you are going to pretend like you have a common culture and language with the people though and all people are considered equal. if most people are against liberty and you increase the amount of people doesn't that increase that amount of people that you have to convert to your side because there is more people? Like say you have a pizza, and you have to eat half of it, dont you have to eat more pizza if its a bigger pizza?

----------


## susano

> So your response is that Trump removed us from something that we were never a part of in the first place?  Indeed, very Trump-like.  Maybe instead just admit you were wrong, correct yourself and maybe make a promise to yourself to research your talking points more in the future so you don't repeat falsehoods from the teevee so much.


He withdrew from an Obama commitment that most certainly would advance to a ratification vote under Democrap control. That won't be happening, now. Downplay that all you want but it's significant and was a looming threat to US sovereignty.

----------


## susano

> Multiple socks, thats rich, I'm lucky if mine don't have holes in them.


And my clothes dryer keeps stealing mine.

----------


## nikcers

> And my clothes dryer keeps stealing mine.


I just wear them when I take my shoes off and walk holes into them all. I don't much like buying socks either, I used to get them for Christmas growing up so I always try to wait till Christmas to get new socks.

----------


## devil21

> Imagine you have enemies that want to blow up your car while you are in it. Do they blow up your car if they are in it with you?


A fair point in a very rudimentary sense but those enemies wouldn't get in the car with you in the first place if they knew there was a bomb attached to it.  Plus, if my own family is trying to blow me up then I must have done something really, really bad to deserve it.

Occam's Razor dictates that the most likely explanation is that Trump is simply lying, the mainstream media is lying (both have obvious track records in that department) and things like the Cambridge Analytica/FB story was how they harvested the data from social media to best determine how to dupe everyone once again.

----------


## UWDude

> The user handle was *compromise*.  I'm sure some of the old members remember that name.
> 
> It wasn't even an offer of money.  It was for a subscription to Glenn Beck's website lol.  Cheap ass grifters gonna cheap ass grift, I guess.


Interesting.
I suppose I should not have been surprised.
Mercenaries almost always need ideological motivation too.

This board isn't worth paying shills on.
I'm glad you are here.

----------


## nikcers

> A fair point in a very rudimentary sense but those enemies wouldn't get in the car with you in the first place if they knew there was a bomb attached to it.  Plus, if my own family is trying to blow me up then I must have done something really, really bad to deserve it.
> 
> Occam's Razor dictates that the most likely explanation is that Trump is simply lying, the mainstream media is lying (both have obvious track records in that department) and things like the Cambridge Analytica/FB story was how they harvested the data from social media to best determine how to dupe everyone once again.


Maybe he has to hire his family because he can't trust people who can be bought. I am talking about the John Boltons and such though. Don't you think John Bolton would be less likely to blow himself up for his cause than not? Occams razor ofcourse.

----------


## susano

> Immigrants have not destroyed Sweden- I have friends who live there & most the press garbage is....garbage. They do have a terrible government though- & that's not the fault of immigration- just ask Assange.
> 
> AND the school system was set up purposely to make us all compliant factory workers.


Rape is through the roof in Sweden and it's primarily immigrants who see Swedish girls and women as whores and, therefore, fair game. Sections of cities are no-go zones and in some palces like Malmo $#@! like hand grenades have become the norm. Sweden never had violent crime like that before Marxist immigration policies were enacted. Norway caught on and ended it, even paying migrants to leave. Now they locate illegals and ship them out:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/...gh-love-works/

----------


## devil21

> He withdrew from an Obama commitment that most certainly would advance to a ratification vote under Democrap control. That won't be happening, now. Downplay that all you want but it's significant and was a looming threat to US sovereignty.


So you'll keep doubling down with mental gymnastics instead of simply admitting that Trump didn't pull us out of the Paris Accord as you originally stated and that you didn't know what you were talking about when you stated it.

I can't imagine what it feels like to have my entire being so closely intertwined with someone, who I've only seen on television, that I couldn't admit being wrong about something about that person that is so easily proven false.  Will you cease to exist if you admit that Trump lied and you fell for it?  Or is the fantasy world of Trump much more pleasant than the reality that no one is going to save you except yourself?

----------


## Pauls' Revere

https://www.constitutionparty.com/co...state-parties/

Mr Mohr,

I have recently become aware that Mr. Justin Amash is leaving the GOP as a representative of Michigan.

I writing to see if yourself or the Constitution Party has considered welcoming Mr. Amash to The Constitution Party to help further the cause of Liberty. Perhaps in the near future as a possible future candidate for the office of the presidency.

Sincerly,




_
Let's see if the Constitution Party likes him._

----------


## UWDude

> I can't imagine what it feels like to have my entire being so closely intertwined with someone, who I've only seen on television, that I couldn't admit being wrong about something about that person that is so easily proven false.


You don't have to imagine it.  You are living it.  It is quite clear your soul is intertwined with rage towards Mr. Trump.  Your every post, of which there are plenty, is tied back to Mr. Trump.   You ever meet him?  Then why are you so obsessed with him.

It is impossible to imagine something, if it is reality, because if it is reality, then you can not be imagining it, eh?
Except that mirror, eh?

That's polarity.   Some people are entwined with trump on the love axis, and others, on the hate axis.
This creates change and conflict, which creates energy.  Creative energy as well as destructive energy.
Entropy and ektropy.

----------


## RonZeplin

BAD Sock Puppet....

----------


## UWDude

> BAD Sock Puppet....


I got to admit, that is a terrible meme.

Bad sock puppet.

Go back to JoeBiden.info.

----------


## devil21

> You don't have to imagine it.  You are living it.  It is quite clear your soul is intertwined with rage towards Mr. Trump.  Your every post, of which there are plenty, is tied back to Mr. Trump.   You ever meet him?  Then why are you so obsessed with him.


Someone has to counter the constant lies from him and you Trumpkins.  Some of us still have a little bit of integrity left and respect for what this forum was founded upon to spend some time doing that.




> It is impossible to imagine something, if it is reality, because if it is reality, then you can not be imagining it, eh?
> Except that mirror, eh?
> 
> That's polarity.   Some people are entwined with trump on the love axis, and others, on the hate axis.
> This creates change and conflict, which creates energy.  Creative energy as well as destructive energy.
> Entropy and ektropy.


So you're admitting that Trump is indeed a psyop.  I've been the most vocal poster that Trump is the PR front man for those working behind the scenes to enact the change they want out of confusion and conflict.  Ordo ab chao.  Yes, some of us know why Trump was selected for the position he is in and what he's really about.  You're mistaken about one thing though.  I don't hate Trump.  Trump is Trump.  He's doing what every thinking person would have expected him to do.  What did anyone expect from a reality show teevee figure that's gone bankrupt like 7 times?  What I hate is seeing humanity take another giant step toward Idiocracy and some here leading the charge full throttle and calling it "winning".  Sure, it's "winning" but no one stops to asks which team is doing the winning?  The little people or the same $#@!s that have been enslaving humanity for thousands of years.  The answer is obvious to me.

----------


## UWDude

> Someone has to counter the constant lies from him and you Trumpkins.  Some of us still have a little bit of integrity left and respect for what this forum was founded upon to spend some time doing that.


Oh, listen to you cling to your hatred.  Stop it.  It's pathetic.  You know what I say is true.  Your case of obsession with someone you have never met is special, unlike everybody else, right?  Your obsession is righteous, right?  Everybody elses obsession is cultist group think.  Unless they hate trump, in which case they are righteous.  That polarity again.





> So you're admitting that Trump is indeed a psyop.


All politics are.  You are here trying to psyop people for your own utopia.





> What I hate is seeing humanity take another giant step toward Idiocracy and some here leading the charge full throttle and calling it "winning".


Hey, you can leave the concentration camp any time you want.  It's in your head.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Speaking of falling for very, very elementary mind tricks.  Brennan getting rid of him?  Who told you that?  Must be true cuz it was on da teevee news?  The internationalists don't hate his guts.  If he was talking about Agenda 21 2030 then they'd hate his guts.  But he doesn't and does everything they need him to do.  Maybe SS is right that Trump really is clueless about Agenda 21 2030.  If that's the case then he's not fit for the office for reasons of _pure ignorance_.  Then again, maybe that's why he's there?  Kinda blows the whole 4D chess thing outta the water though.  Can't claim ignorance and genius at the same time...
> 
> Bolsheviks are Jesuits, not Jews.  But they like it that you think they're just "Jews".  Makes it easy to dismiss any mention of the topic as "anti-semitism".


Trump is doing plenty to disrupt Agenda 21/2030 whether he knows about it or not.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It looks like he's on to us and knows that all of the usernames here who voted for Trump are really one person with multiple socks. Pretty sharp, eh?


Yes, it was a good run but now that he knows we will just have to pack up and leave the forum.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Yeah, right. It was eastern European commie immigrants who infiltrated this country and spread Marxism. They completely control public "education" - hence the retards on all of the campuses. They control the media and they are behind the push for no borders and mass migration. And, yeah, it WILL destroy the US. See Sweden.


And before that it was western European socialists and communists who came over in herds and fundamentally altered our political culture away from what the founders gave us.

Now it is illiterate 3rd world communists being brought in to out breed and out vote us to seal our doom forever. But Ender will probably insist that Ted Kennedy was just being a patriotic libertarian when he pushed to alter our immigration laws.

----------


## devil21

> Oh, listen to you cling to your hatred.  Stop it.  It's pathetic.  You know what I say is true.  Your case of obsession with someone you have never met is special, unlike everybody else, right?  Your obsession is righteous, right?  Everybody elses obsession is cultist group think.  Unless they hate trump, in which case they are righteous.  That polarity again.


My obsession is to defend what this forum was founded upon and to combat ignorance.  That's it.  Reading anything further into it is on you Freud. 





> All politics are.  You are here trying to psyop people for your own utopia.


I see your point there, though the difference is that I don't want to dumb people down.  I want them to wise up.  If wanting a smarter society is my utopia then guilty as charged.  




> Hey, you can leave the concentration camp any time you want.  It's in your head.


No, it's not.  The concentration camp is very real and there's $#@!s running around with guns and egos willing to enforce it.

----------


## UWDude

> My obsession is to defend what this forum was founded upon and to combat ignorance.


You are doing a terrible job of it.
You are hurting your own cause.  Just like Justin.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> It's one of the primary tools use by TPTB to divide everyone & take their eye off what is really happening. We are NOT losing freedoms because of Immigrants- we are losing freedoms because of ignorance.
> 
> *Paul Craig Roberts:*
> 
> https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/01/...al-crimes-now/
> 
> *If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was or ever will be.*
> -Thomas Jefferson-


We are losing freedoms for the same reason we have for generations, because ignorant immigrants are brought in to out vote those Americans who aren't ignorant or who are at least less ignorant.

----------


## devil21

> And before that it was western European socialists and communists who came over in herds and fundamentally altered our political culture away from what the founders gave us.


You mean like Fred Drumpf?




> Now it is illiterate 3rd world communists being brought in to out breed and out vote us to seal our doom forever. But Ender will probably insist that Ted Kennedy was just being a patriotic libertarian when he pushed to alter our immigration laws.


Why don't you breed more then?  Sounds to me like you're just scared of competition.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Immigrants have not destroyed Sweden- I have friends who live there & most the press garbage is....garbage. They do have a terrible government though- & that's not the fault of immigration- just ask Assange.
> 
> AND the school system was set up purposely to make us all compliant factory workers.


Most of the press IS garbage *and most of the press denies what the invaders are doing to Sweden*, I don't believe you have any Swedish friends and if you do I don't believe them, they are either ignorant insulated fools or lying leftists.

Sweden was destroying itself slowly but it might have survived long enough to learn its lesson and turn around, now it will have a violent and destructive collapse which it will only have a tiny chance of rebuilding from.

----------


## devil21

> You are doing a terrible job of it.
> You are hurting your own cause.  Just like Justin.


Oh my, praytell, what is the secret to life Mr. Freud?  Become a drag on society, just another lying $#@!?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You mean like Fred Drumpf?


I don't know his politics but yes, he was part of the excessive immigration that fundamentally altered our political culture away from what the founders gave us.






> Why don't you breed more then?  Sounds to me like you're just scared of competition.


It isn't good to have so many children you can't raise them properly, they all grow up and vote leftist.
It also doesn't matter, this is our country and we don't have to "compete" in a breeding contest to keep its political culture, you can't deny that the plan is to destroy liberty demographically/culturally so you are trying to change the subject.

Thanks for exposing that you support the replacement migration agenda to create a global tyranny.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> In 20 years a cup of coffee is going to cost $500: Venezuela (and, no, idiots, not because of foreigners).
> 
> Now, we have a chance to make one last stand: some of us may be able to tell our children that we tried. 
> 
> Libertarians  must NOW leave the GOP. this disgusting socialist cabal, and make an  attempt at power, or at least resistance. 
> 
> We're running out of hills to die on. 
> 
> 
> ...


If we follow your plan we will all be too dead to enjoy the $50,000 cups of soda.

We have a chance to turn things around if we follow Rand and work with Republicans, we have no chance at all if we don't.

Amash is proving my point right now.

----------


## UWDude

> Oh my, praytell, what is the secret to life Mr. Freud?  Become a drag on society, just another lying $#@!?


I have no idea.  I have not spent a single moment in your mind.  Only you have.  So only you can have the answer to that.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Does anyone remember the good old days?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This can be done again; but it requires balls, and telling the current GOP President to go get $#@!ed.


What party was Ron Running in?

----------


## UWDude

> It isn't good to have so many children you can't raise them properly, they all grow up and vote leftist.


We need to demand abortion clinics at the borders.

XD

They won't know whether to call it racist or pro-choice.

XD XD XD

The immigrants demand access to healthcare, including a woman's right to access to abortion!

----------


## devil21

> I don't know his politics but yes, he was part of the excessive immigration that fundamentally altered our political culture away from what the founders gave us.
> 
> It isn't good to have so many children you can't raise them properly, they all grow up and vote leftist.
> It also doesn't matter, this is our country and we don't have to "compete" in a breeding contest to keep its political culture, you can't deny that the plan is to destroy liberty demographically/culturally so you are trying to change the subject.
> 
> Thanks for exposing that you support the replacement migration agenda to create a global tyranny.


I like conservative principles like competition in the marketplace, including biologically.  I'm not afraid of brown people.  In fact, I've come to realize that they're much more afraid of me than I am of them, but since you don't interact with any of them you wouldn't be able to experience that.




> I have no idea.  I have not spent a single moment in your mind.  Only you have.  So only you can have the answer to that.


Meh, that was a let down.  I hoped for at least another incoherent story about a mall.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I like conservative principles like competition in the marketplace, including biologically.  I'm not afraid of brown people.  In fact, I've come to realize that they're much more afraid of me than I am of them, but since you don't interact with any of them you wouldn't be able to experience that.


I've interacted with plenty and you are putting liberty down as a wager on competition in a breeding contest (if we are to believe that you aren't just undermining it), that shows just how much you value liberty, I value liberty enough that I do not subject it to competition with tyranny in the territory I live in.

----------


## UWDude

> I like conservative principles like competition in the marketplace, including biologically.  I'm not afraid of brown people.  In fact, I've come to realize that they're much more afraid of me than I am of them, but since you don't interact with any of them you wouldn't be able to experience that.


Now he is going for a pissing match about brown friend counts!

XD

----------


## susano

> This is the disconnect for me.  How is he flushing them out by surrounding himself with them and never attacking them?  Who surrounds themselves with the people you're (supposedly) openly sabotaging?  Is he flushing out his son-in-law?  His daughter Yael?  One thing about Trump is that he demands strict loyalty from people he surrounds himself with.  How does that jive with flushing them out for sabotage?  That makes no sense, especially when history shows quite clearly that those in the Oval Office who try to sabotage the Bolsheviks end up with a bullet in the head!
> 
> Then again, there's still plenty of time left for that to happen...so...


You're talking about the Zionists around Trump and, I think AF is talking about the useful idiot commies, from the pussy hat bitches to Antifa. Trump sure as hell has flushed them out. I do agree about the Zionists around him, though. I do not get his thing for Israel, at all, but he's always been out front about it. The creepy relationship with the Saudi scum, I'm guessing, is for two reasons: They're an Israel partner in crime and the petro dollar. 

I've always felt the average poster on a political site knows more about foreign policy than Trump. Naturally, he hasn't been hanging online or reading about conspiracy stuff throughout his life. He's been banging hot women and doing real estate deals. I get that. Now he relies on trusted people like that  cringe worthy drip Ivanka and her husband to advise him and he is not served well. At the same time, he seems to revert back to his instincts, which are right, and after looking like he's going to do their bidding, he pulls pack and goes in the other direction. Syria is a case in point. Venezuela, too. As Trump said, Bolton would be at war against the world if he had his way. Why is Bolton there if Trump, ultimately, disregards his advice? All I can figure is Art of the Deal. Use these rabid loons to intimidate and force certain players to the table to negotiate. I'd say his success rate there is iffy but he's still not gotten us into a war and I attribute that to his instincts, not his foreign policy understanding.

----------


## UWDude

> Meh, that was a let down.  I hoped for at least another incoherent story about a mall.


I knew you would sarcastically ask me for advice next.

Your defense mechanisms are as predictable as your opinion on Donald J Trump's latest political move.

Just admit you love the flames.  Admit it.  You love the hate.  You can't leave here.

You know damn well your posts don't do anything towards your cause.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Now he is going for a pissing match about brown friend counts!
> 
> XD


And demanding that we reduce life to a breeding contest.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You're talking about the Zionists around Trump and, I think AF is talking about the useful idiot commies, from the pussy hat bitches to Antifa. Trump sure as hell has flushed them out. I do agree about the Zionists around him, though. I do not get his thing for Israel, at all, but he's always been out front about it. The creepy relationship with the Saudi scum, I'm guessing, is for two reasons: They're an Israel partner in crime and the petro dollar. 
> 
> I've always felt the average poster on a political site knows more about foreign policy than Trump. Naturally, he hasn't been hanging online or reading about conspiracy stuff throughout his life. He's been banging hot women and doing real estate deals. I get that. Now he relies on trusted people like that  cringe worthy drip Ivanka and her husband to advise him and he is not served well. At the same time, he seems to revert back to his instincts, which are right, and after looking like he's going to do their bidding, he pulls pack and goes in the other direction. Syria is a case in point. Venezuela, too. As Trump said, Bolton would be at war against the world if he had his way. Why is Bolton there if Trump, ultimately, disregards his advice? All I can figure is Art of the Deal. Use these rabid loons to intimidate and force certain players to the table to negotiate. I'd say his success rate there is iffy but he's still not gotten us into a war and I attribute that to his instincts, not his foreign policy understanding.


Trump needs allies, there aren't enough good people in politics for him to only have good people as allies, that's why he has allies we don't like.

----------


## dannno

> This board isn't worth paying shills on.


Not full time.

----------


## UWDude

> Not full time.


I dunno, I might do it for a subscription to this guy, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GjkVWQ2Oik

----------


## devil21

> I knew you would sarcastically ask me for advice next.


And you failed to deliver 




> Your defense mechanisms are as predictable as your opinion on Donald J Trump's latest political move.


What can I say, it's not hard to predict that he will lie the next time he opens his mouth.




> Just admit you love the flames.  Admit it.  You love the hate.  You can't leave here.


I do enjoy debating you propagandists, yes.  Keeps the mind sharp and prevents your control.  I know that not having full control is what you hate, though.




> You know damn well your posts don't do anything towards your cause.


LOL, you posted that right as I received a rep from someone that's openly stated they have been greatly enlightened by my posts.  The universe is funny that way sometimes.




> And demanding that we reduce life to a breeding contest.


You're a eugenicist too, while claiming to be pro-life?  You continue to surprise SS.  Actually no not really.

----------


## UWDude

> LOL, you posted that right as I received a rep from someone that's openly stated they have been greatly enlightened by my posts.  The universe is funny that way sometimes.


Wrong.  Magic is not real.

----------


## UWDude

> LOL, you posted that right as I received a rep from someone that's openly stated they have been greatly enlightened by my posts.  The universe is funny that way sometimes.


You know what is really funny?
I posted publicly I was glad you are here, a few posts up.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6824228

The path purifies.

Because you enlightened me on how shilling works.  Sell accounts for subscriptions.  Very interesting. Makes a ton of sense, actually.

That would have never happened in an echo chamber.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> You're a eugenicist too, while claiming to be pro-life?  You continue to surprise SS.  Actually no not really.


LOL

Where do you get that from?
Immigration control is eugenics now?

----------


## devil21

> LOL
> 
> Where do you get that from?
> Immigration control is eugenics now?


Breeding control is.




> You know what is really funny?
> I posted publicly I was glad you are here, a few posts up.
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6824228
> 
> The path purifies.
> 
> Because you enlightened me on how shilling works.  Sell accounts for subscriptions.  Very interesting. Makes a ton of sense, actually.
> 
> That would have never happened in an echo chamber.


I saw it.  I appreciate the service provided to sharpen the wit and knowledge that some of you provide.  You keep saying I hate this person or that person but you're wrong about that.  I don't hate people, including the shills.  You're all useful in your own ways.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Breeding control is.


Please point to where I called for it.

----------


## susano

> So you'll keep doubling down with mental gymnastics instead of simply admitting that Trump didn't pull us out of the Paris Accord as you originally stated and that you didn't know what you were talking about when you stated it.
> 
> I can't imagine what it feels like to have my entire being so closely intertwined with someone, who I've only seen on television, that I couldn't admit being wrong about something about that person that is so easily proven false.  Will you cease to exist if you admit that Trump lied and you fell for it?  Or is the fantasy world of Trump much more pleasant than the reality that no one is going to save you except yourself?


Wow, you certainly hold a high opinion of your arrogant ass, as well making all kinds of erroneous assumptions.

It's you who is unable to admit that Trump stopped the Obama agreement from moving forward to ratification. Why you can't do that is strange but your problem. I don't want that thing getting anywhere near the possibility of becoming a treaty and Trump has made sure it's not go to.

I don't feel intertwined with Trump. It was him or Satan, essentially, and it was unfathomable to me that Hillary Clinton could be president. I would much prefer a president who doesn't have Trump's juvenile narcissist problems and someone who doesn't say all of the stupid $#@! he does but that's not what we have. I also think Trump is far too weak in standing up against the Marxists. I'd rather have a Viktor Orban but I don't. 

I'm curious. Who do you think you'll be supporting or voting for in 2020? I'd like hear your better alternative.

----------


## UWDude

> You're all useful in your own ways.


I'm flattered.  You are now mimicking me.




> You keep saying I hate this person or that person but you're wrong about that.


You hate Trump.  I am very right about that.

----------


## susano

> You don't have to imagine it.  You are living it.  It is quite clear your soul is intertwined with rage towards Mr. Trump.  Your every post, of which there are plenty, is tied back to Mr. Trump.   You ever meet him?  Then why are you so obsessed with him.
> 
> It is impossible to imagine something, if it is reality, because if it is reality, then you can not be imagining it, eh?
> Except that mirror, eh?
> 
> That's polarity.   Some people are entwined with trump on the love axis, and others, on the hate axis.
> This creates change and conflict, which creates energy.  Creative energy as well as destructive energy.
> Entropy and ektropy.


Devil is just another head where Trump resides rent free.

----------


## UWDude

> You hate Trump.  I am very right about that.


this is the part where you deny it.  Because this is about control, not meaning.
Were you on a leftist board, you would be proclaiming at the top of your lungs how much you hate Trump.

But since it is in opposition to me, you will proclaim you do not.

In fact, I could make you think almost anything, knowing you are in full opposition mode at the moment.

----------


## devil21

> I'm flattered.  You are now mimicking me.


Ok Freud.  You're clearly the only sociopath involved in politics 




> You hate Trump.  I am very right about that.


I hate what he represents.  I don't hate him.

----------


## devil21

> Wow, you certainly hold a high opinion of your arrogant ass, as well making all kinds of erroneous assumptions.
> 
> It's you who is unable to admit that Trump stopped the Obama agreement from moving forward to ratification. Why you can't do that is strange but your problem. I don't want that thing getting anywhere near the possibility of becoming a treaty and Trump has made sure it's not go to.
> 
> I don't feel intertwined with Trump. It was him or Satan, essentially, and it was unfathomable to me that Hillary Clinton could be president. I would much prefer a president who doesn't have Trump's juvenile narcissist problems and someone who doesn't say all of the stupid $#@! he does but that's not what we have. I also think Trump is far too weak in standing up against the Marxists. I'd rather have a Viktor Orban but I don't. 
> 
> I'm curious. Who do you think you'll be supporting or voting for in 2020? I'd like hear your better alternative.


Look, you said something that was provably false.  You've spent many posts trying to find different word salad justifications for weaseling out of it instead of just admitting that either Trump hasn't pulled out of anything since it's still in effect or that he didn't pull out of it because we were never actually in it.  Now you're claiming some future event is assured, even though the future event probably won't include Trump's participation and you're relying on the assurance of someone that provably lies constantly as proof.  It's pretty ridiculous at this point.

Why would I have any clue about who, or even if, I'd support anyone in November 2020?  That's almost a year and a half away and lots of things can happen between now and then.  Hell, I could declare my own candidacy for President in that length of time.  Or I could cease to be a good voting citizen (employee of the corporation) by then.

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## UWDude

> I hate what he represents.  I don't hate him.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6824298

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## susano

> I don't know his politics but yes, he was part of the excessive immigration that fundamentally altered our political culture away from what the founders gave us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't good to have so many children you can't raise them properly, they all grow up and vote leftist.
> It also doesn't matter, this is our country and we don't have to "compete" in a breeding contest to keep its political culture, you can't deny that the plan is to destroy liberty demographically/culturally so you are trying to change the subject.
> 
> Thanks for exposing that you support the replacement migration agenda to create a global tyranny.

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## Swordsmyth

> 


Yup, we are already in the danger zone, if we don't turn things around we will be destroyed.

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## nikcers

> Oh my, praytell, what is the secret to life Mr. Freud?  Become a drag on society, just another lying $#@!?


1.) Happy wife happy life
2.) Find a job you love doing and you never work a day in your life
3.) Pass on the wisdom you gain, pay it forward, wisdom is gods gift, share it with people and encourage them to share it
4.) Always pursue a goal no matter how big it is and you will never regret anything
5.) Don't let hate in, hate corrupts people, its addicting like a drug

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## Swordsmyth

> Please point to where I called for it.


 @devil21

I'm still waiting.

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## susano

> I dunno, I might do it for a subscription to this guy, though:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GjkVWQ2Oik


lol @ the music. Perfect.

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## juleswin

> Have you ever changed your mind in your life? How about changed any opinions you held in 1999? Trump seems to have re-thought or actually thought deeply about this issue and sincerely changed his position.


Yes I have but the older I get, the more hardened I get with my beliefs. And when it comes to something connected to my value system, those are definitely the hardest to change. The idea that Trump the politician in his 70s will change his views to be in line with that of Christian, family oriented, Midwest values is not believable. I believe that in his heart of hearts, he hates abortions but supports it. For a womanizer like him without any out of wedlock children, you have to imagine that he has paid for a few procedures himself.

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## Superfluous Man

> I rest my case.


I'm still not sure what you found offensive.

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## cruzrulez

look up the definition of pilpul, folks. google is not your friend for this one.

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## nikcers

> Yes I have but the older I get, the more hardened I get with my beliefs. And when it comes to something connected to my value system, those are definitely the hardest to change. The idea that Trump the politician in his 70s will change his views to be in line with that of Christian, family oriented, Midwest values is not believable. I believe that in his heart of hearts, he hates abortions but supports it. For a womanizer like him without any out of wedlock children, you have to imagine that he has paid for a few procedures himself.


You need to forget what you think you know about Trump. Thats the biggest problem people who are anti Trump have with Trump. Trump has been doing perception managment his entire life for himself trying to cultivate a populist image of himself to appeal to the most people. He used to even use an alter ego to pretend to be someone else in order to promote him in the press. He is not a partisan, he is the most independent president we have had it in our lifetimes.

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## loveshiscountry

> You need to forget what you think you know about Trump. Thats the biggest problem people who are anti Trump have with Trump. Trump has been doing perception managment his entire life for himself trying to cultivate a populist image of himself to appeal to the most people. He used to even use an alter ego to pretend to be someone else in order to promote him in the press. He is not a partisan, he is the most independent president we have had it in our lifetimes.


He isn't very good. That he's not as bad as Obama or Bush still means he isn't very good. Oh and he lies over policy too much. Is that what perception management means? Another name for lying? I don't need a buzz word or some new phrase to know he can't be trusted and that over all he's not very good. When he does do good things it needs to be mentioned. That said, overall, he's still horse$#@!.

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## nikcers

> He isn't very good. That he's not as bad as Obama or Bush still means he isn't very good. Oh and *he lies over policy too much. Is that what perception management means?* Another name for lying? I don't need a buzz word or some new phrase to know he can't be trusted and that over all he's not very good. When he does do good things it needs to be mentioned. That said, overall, he's still horse$#@!.


You have to look at it from a marketing perspective. You want to market your product to the most amount of people to get the most capital.

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## loveshiscountry

> You have to look at it from a marketing perspective. You want to market your product to the most amount of people to get the most capital.


So not lying but bullshitting? He's still bad lol

Trumps ego is so big, he even made himself the topic of this thread.

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## nikcers

> So not lying but bullshitting? He's still bad lol
> 
> Trumps ego is so big, he even made himself the topic of this thread.


You have to understand that his ego is so big, that he is so vain that he would not be dragging his name through the mud unless it was selfless.

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## nikcers

I'm not saying Trump is perfect, but you have to understand by now that he is better than his opposition.

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## PAF

> I ask you the same question...
> 
> Furthermore, I don't think you have much room to talk.
> 
> You are so rigidly wedded to ideology that you'd let your own town burn to the ground rather than allow hoses and fire equipment to be dragged across your property without your permission.


Standing on principle is most important to me, especially regarding NAP and Property Rights. The do as I say, not as I do approach is not something that I respect, and the people who learn/teach that are what has helped cause the spiral down into loss of liberty.

If I told you that I live in a neighborhood where 99% were extreme socialist democrats would your position change?

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## TheCount

> I'm not going to spend any time researching the intricacies of the TPP claim since you didn't even get the Paris Accord claim correct.


I'll spare you:  We were never part of the TPP.

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## Swordsmyth

> Yes I have but the older I get, the more hardened I get with my beliefs. And when it comes to something connected to my value system, those are definitely the hardest to change. The idea that Trump the politician in his 70s will change his views to be in line with that of Christian, family oriented, Midwest values is not believable. I believe that in his heart of hearts, he hates abortions but supports it. For a womanizer like him without any out of wedlock children, you have to imagine that he has paid for a few procedures himself.


Perhaps he always had more conservative beliefs but spoke the party line in order to avoid political persecution in New York?

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## Swordsmyth

> I'll spare you:  We were never part of the TPP.


We were well into the process of joining.

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## Swordsmyth

> look up the definition of pilpul, folks. google is not your friend for this one.


*What Is Pilpul , And Why On Earth Should I Care About It?*

----------


## nikcers

> We well into the process of joining.


TPP was always on the table to get China to make a deal with us. Trump threw it off the table because he thought he could use throwing it off the table as leverage. Everyone who ever takes over leadership always thinks they can do things differently and won't have to play ball. Like Rand said in the debates TPP was just designed to counter China, it was anti China.

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## juleswin

> Perhaps he always had more conservative beliefs but spoke the party line in order to avoid political persecution in New York?


He said he supported abortion in the third trimester. This late type abortion is even unpopular with many liberals. If he was pretending, why go that far? I think its way more believable that he was a real liberal (with some conservative values) but decided to pretend to be a conservative when he realized that he could win with them.

----------


## nikcers

> He said he supported abortion in the third trimester. This late type abortion is even unpopular with many liberals. If he was pretending, why go that far? I think its way more believable that he was a real liberal (with some conservative values) but decided to pretend to be a conservative when he realized that he could win with them.


You can't work in a lot of industries if you aren't part of the club. The guy who played Hercules in the 90's tv show and the guy from wedding crashers got that treatment.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> TPP was always on the table to get China to make a deal with us. Trump threw it off the table because he thought he could use throwing it off the table as leverage. Everyone who ever takes over leadership always thinks they can do things differently and won't have to play ball. Like Rand said in the debates TPP was just designed to counter China, it was anti China.


It was globalist whether it was pro or anti China.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> He said he supported abortion in the third trimester. This late type abortion is even unpopular with many liberals. If he was pretending, why go that far? I think its way more believable that he was a real liberal (with some conservative values) but decided to pretend to be a conservative when he realized that he could win with them.


He didn't have to placate average liberals, he had to please radicals in NYC politics and the entertainment industry.

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## nikcers

> It was globalist whether it was pro or anti China.


Yep, offload jobs and make more profits in the TPP countries instead of China because they were becoming a threat.

----------


## Danke

> You mean if Susano talks about Sweden I can't say what my friends there have told me?  
> 
> Whodda thunk!


You should engage The Foreigner.  He has a YouTube channel (soon to be banned, no doubt) He is not a native to Sweden, but has lived there for a long time.

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## loveshiscountry

> You have to understand that his ego is so big, that he is so vain that he would not be dragging his name through the mud unless it was selfless.


I understand what he's about. I watched The Apprentice shows and the debates.

----------


## familydog

I think we have found someone whose ego is larger than Trump's. He wanted me to take time out of celebrating America's secession and the spirit of '76 to care about his hissy fit? Screw him.

----------


## Badger Paul

"As I suspected, he wants to retire, and apparently he is going down in a blaze of glory on his way out the door. "

(Sigh...) The Ron Paul Revolution eats its young, just like all revolutions.

I'm not naive to understand he faces an uphill battle to get renominated in a GOP primary. But if he's able to win the support of what Dems there are in his district plus his Republican supporters and independents, he has a chance to pull out a win in a three-way contest.

Notice he didn't switch to the LP and he's smart not to do that. The bottom line is libertarians have no place in today's Republican Party (which Amash found out just by talking to Republicans locally) and joining an LP which couldn't get get Republican voters to choose two _two-term(!)_ governors heading its ticket in 2016, - n not Starchild, Chief Wana Dubie of Augustus Invictus - only demonstrates there's just no future in that option.

What's needed is a new major political party for all those who are fed up with the extremes of identity politics and want a party and candidate and issues which transcends the polarization in our politics. Considering where we are now such a party would be considered "centrist" by the pundits but which one which could lean to the center5-right but still attract a broad-base of support, even from liberals, with the right issue emphasis and positions. I think that's what Amash and a lot of people are really looking for and hopefully if Amash is re-elected, can help develop.

Who knows, maybe Massie will join him considering what Republicans are trying to do to him in Kentucky. You know Rand, Rand the Company Man could put a stop to it with an endorsement. We'll see.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I think we have found someone whose ego is larger than Trump's. He wanted me to take time out of celebrating America's secession and the spirit of '76 to care about his hissy fit? Screw him.


I thought his timing was tasteless as well.

----------


## UWDude

> That's all real nice and I agree with George Washington. It was so good of Justin to use the NWO paper of record, that hates our constitution, to publish his agreement with our first president. That said, did he just fall off the turnip truck? Since when has the Republican Party been about limited government and all of that other good stuff? Not in my lifetime. They're just a tad better than Democraps in that regard. Was it US policy in central and south America, propping up dictators and regimes that tortured dissidents that made Justin think the Republican Party was all about freedom and limited govt? Maybe Desert Storm, initiated by Mr New World Order himself, Bush 41? Perhaps the Iraq war and Bush 43? The massive deficits? The militarism of the neocons? Democraps are the ideological descendants of the Bolsheviks but Republicans sure as hell have never been Jeffersonian so I find his farewell to the GOP to be insincere or, maybe, kind of ideologically delusional because it doesn't reflect reality. 
> 
> All that aside, there was no Russia "collusion" and no matter how distasteful Justin finds Trump, he's done nothing impeachable. By endorsing the sham Mueller report , Justin aligned himself with those who cooked that fraud up (talk about doing ANYTHING to retain power). I would have respected him more if he'd just said he'd done some soul searching, realized he's a Libertarian, opposes US sovereignty and supports open borders and went on his way. I'm very glad he's done this, though, because Democrats would have assured his win in the primary. 
> 
> I hate our partisan system and wish that anyone who runs for office would have to do  so in under their name only without party affiliation. That's not what we have, though. What we DO have is a country teetering on the edge of going full on Marxist, thanks to immigration policies that allowed a fifth column into this country, and Justin wants more of that. We're in death spiral, alright, and even the all powerful (snark) Trump can barely keep it at bay.


Exactly.  This is a well planned lawyer dork battle plan.  He had all the numbers calculated like a simulation.  He's trying to grab a seat as an independent.  This is like his professional attempt at wooing republicans, so he can unite with the left.  It will fail.

Somebody want to prove to me their credentials, and I can give full psych evaluation.  He is not very bright.  Hopefully he can plead stupidity when explaining why he ignored the fully documented abuses against Trump, but still somehow decided Trump should be impeached for farcical reasons.
But in all reality, he will be irrelevant forever.  Nobody is going to care what he pleads.

----------


## TheCount

> We were well into the process of joining.


Joining what?  The TPP doesn't exist.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Standing on principle is most important to me, especially regarding NAP and Property Rights. The “do as I say, not as I do” approach is not something that I respect, and the people who learn/teach that are what has helped cause the spiral down into loss of liberty.
> 
> If I told you that I live in a neighborhood where 99% were extreme socialist democrats would your position change?


I'd say you need to move to a better town.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Joining what?  The TPP doesn't exist.


Because Trump pulled the plug.

----------


## Pauls' Revere

> https://www.constitutionparty.com/co...state-parties/
> 
> Mr Mohr,
> 
> I have recently become aware that Mr. Justin Amash is leaving the GOP as a representative of Michigan.
> 
> I writing to see if yourself or the Constitution Party has considered welcoming Mr. Amash to The Constitution Party to help further the cause of Liberty. Perhaps in the near future as a possible future candidate for the office of the presidency.
> 
> Sincerly,
> ...



Reply from Mr. Mohr, Michigan Constitution Party:

_Representative Amash has made no indication that he is willing to align with any political party at this point.  I have approached him in the past about it, but was met with much resistance. His position on the life issue is troubling, but whether or not he is willing to change his position to pro-life has yet to be seen.  He is, for the most part, one who adheres to the constitution.

There are many pros and cons to Mr. Amash.  I expect to be in contact with him when the dust settles.

William (Bill) Mohr
US Taxpayers Party of Michigan - SCC Chairman
_

----------


## RonZeplin



----------


## Philhelm

> 


The Amash version would have the dog blow its brains out with a shotgun in the next frame.

----------


## Badger Paul

_Let's see if the Constitution Party likes him._

Funny thing about the Constitution Party, so many of its state branches want to disaffiliate from it.

Stay independent Congressman Amash

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## Valli6

PRIME ACT https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...859/cosponsors _AND_
AUDIT THE FED https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-.../24/cosponsors

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