# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns >  We Have Our 2012 Candidate

## Eric P

Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have  single candidate to rally around.

Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.  Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate.  He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul. 

Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please.  He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  

WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.

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## libertythor

5 stars on the thread!

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## Eric P

If you want to see what he actually said, go to YouTube and look it up, he's VERY direct in saying he would run for President in 2012.

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## rockandrollsouls

> Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have  single candidate to rally around.
> 
> Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.  Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate.  He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul. 
> 
> Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please.  He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  
> 
> WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.


Of course you and others are quit to jump behind him without knowing his stances on issues....that's cool and all 

Personally, I'll wait until he clarifies where he stands before I back him.

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## libertythor

> Of course you and others are quit to jump behind him without knowing his stances on issues....that's cool and all 
> 
> Personally, I'll wait until he clarifies where he stands before I back him.


I was cool with most of his performance in Minnesota, and right now I am researching his stances.

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## FrankRep

Ventura 2012!

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## DAFTEK

5* But im skeptical about Jesse holding on to his word and actually going threw with this... I can only dream about him running and having RP support all the way to the white house..

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## WRellim

You need to learn a little more about what Mr. Ventura FAILED to do when he was in office as Minnesota Governor.

He talks big... but the walk? Not so much.

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## inibo

I liked his speech.  I like what I've heard him say in the past.  I like his solid brass hanging parts.  He could get me on-board pretty easily, but I've got to look a bit deeper and he's got to show me a bit more.  I am cautiously optimistic, but I'm not ready to go all in today.

I'd love to hear some more of his speeches, though.  Adrenalin is a nice high.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

The guy who really impresses me personally is B.J. Lawson.  What a speaker.  He has to be considered a rising star and part of the future of this movement.

Gary Johnson or Jesse Ventura for President, B.J. Lawson for vice president in 2012!

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## rockandrollsouls

> You need to learn a little more about what Mr. Ventura FAILED to do when he was in office as Minnesota Governor.
> 
> He talks big... but the walk? Not so much.


I tend to agree. The DAFTEK section.....not so much 

Daffy, might want to check your spelling

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## libertythor

http://www.ontheissues.org/Jesse_Ventura.htm

Here are his stances on the state issues. 

Remember he hasn't issued everything for the federal level.  

For example:  He is for getting the federal government out of education, but opposes vouchers on the local level.

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## rockandrollsouls

> http://www.ontheissues.org/Jesse_Ventura.htm
> 
> Here are his stances on the state issues. 
> 
> Remember he hasn't issued everything for the federal level.  
> 
> For example:  He is for getting the federal government out of education, but opposes vouchers on the local level.


Like Rellim said, he talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. I'd like to hear him clarify first.

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## DAFTEK

> Daffy, might want to check your spelling


 Ummm What part of it? Im to lazy for all the " &' & , & . & : I guess that automatic spell checker plugin is working for yah and that makes you a smarter person...

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## anaconda

Ventura should get his masters degree in Economics first. Then he would be awesome.

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## DAFTEK

> I tend to agree. The DAFTEK section.....not so much


Well obviously, since im a Palin supporter....

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## RoamZero

I'd support him if he ran as a Republican instead of an independent.

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## libertythor

> I'd support him if he ran as a Republican instead of an independent.


Well lets get started now in the efforts to organize and draft him for the GOP 2012 nomination.

He ought to go for the MN gov nomination for the GOP in the interim though...

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## wortguy

his speech at the end there was all about him - he looked and sounded ridiculous. he is certainly not the man for the job, but hey - it's only presidential politics and the local level is where we need to be. So where will he be? 
He told us!  He is gonna be watching us - like santa claus ! and if we are good, he will let us send him money in 2012 so he could be as popular as ron paul!
HAHAHA

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## dannno

Ventura is open minded and good at learning. 

Give him some time to take in Ron Paul's values on economics and free markets. Let's help SHAPE him as a politician... and not in the slimey politician way, in the logical statesman way.

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## Chiznaddy

> The guy who really impresses me personally is B.J. Lawson.  What a speaker.  He has to be considered a rising star and part of the future of this movement.
> 
> Gary Johnson or Jesse Ventura for President, B.J. Lawson for vice president in 2012!


Agreed partially.  BJ is awesome.  Well spoken, good looking, articulate and intelligent true Ron Paul supporter.

I must say, I am impressed with Gary Johnson's record, but his speech was much less than impressive.  Unlike Ron Paul, GJ spoke all about himself and his speech was very unemotional.  He did not give me the kind of excitement that I think is needed for the next spokesman for liberty.  BJ would (no pun intended).

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## BuddyRey

> his speech at the end there was all about him - he looked and sounded ridiculous. he is certainly not the man for the job, but hey - it's only presidential politics and the local level is where we need to be. So where will he be? 
> He told us!  He is gonna be watching us - like santa claus ! and if we are good, he will let us send him money in 2012 so he could be as popular as ron paul!
> HAHAHA


You've got to remember Ventura was a wrestler and actor before he got into politics.  Wrestling is really nothing more than drama and crowd dynamics taken to a physical level.  Jesse knows how to work a crowd into a hot lather (as was evidenced by the huge applause he got).  His chest-beating tirade, which most people would equate with conceit and self-aggrandizement, was actually a master showman-slash-general trying to inspire and rally the crowd.  Ventura is a consummate performer!

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## cska80

I still don't like Ventura because he thinks I'm scared of the 'brown people' because I don't want illegals coming here. He should come to Rhode Island, drive down the Providence, and see little Mexico we have here. After that, he can call me a racist to my face. I may not beat his ass, but I'll be sure to kick him in the balls before he can do anything!

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## Flash

I liked Gary Johnson the best out of them all.

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## vroomery

BJ Lawson all the way. He's solid on his positions, a great public speaker/communicator, and looks like a collected person which contributes to his electability. If he wins his district (which will be quite a challenge) he could be a really solid candidate, especially if Obama wins and people are sick of him already. Can you imagine someone that is compelling as Obama, but speaks the truth?!

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## Lord Xar

> Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have  single candidate to rally around.
> 
> Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.  Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate.  He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul. 
> 
> Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please.  He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  
> 
> WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.


What is his stance on Illegal immigration? By then though - probably be a moot issue.

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## Kotin

I'm in

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## mport1

Ventura is no libertarian.

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## Pauls' Revere

> Ventura 2012!


Paul/Ventura

and maybe I'd like to see Ventura get back into politics as it were, maybe not. It would be very refreshing to have a serious third party run.

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## newyearsrevolution08

I would vote for him

I would vote for anyone who has the balls to say what he did as long as he was able to keep with his word.

I want to check his record as governor though since I haven't done that just yet.....

We shall see BUT either way I feel we will have a few presidential and veeps to consider for the next election and 3 years to get things ready

lets do it

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## Pauls' Revere

> Ventura is no libertarian.


Sorry, that would be *un-constitutional*.

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## constituent

> his speech at the end there was all about him - he looked and sounded ridiculous. he is certainly not the man for the job, but hey - it's only presidential politics and the local level is where we need to be. So where will he be? 
> He told us!  He is gonna be watching us - like santa claus ! and if we are good, he will let us send him money in 2012 so he could be as popular as ron paul!
> HAHAHA


yea, that method is pretty popular 'round here.

just hold your nose, the smell's not so bad once you get used to it.

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## Rangeley

I haven't been impressed by Ventura. He seemed somewhat threatening in his attitude during TV interviews, and doesn't really put forward arguments for things without resorting to "I served in the Navy Seals, did you?" I think we can do better.

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## Michael Landon

When looking at Jesse Ventura's record as Governor please keep in mind that he had to have the help of the Minnesota House and Senate to get things accomplished.  Being Republicans and Democrats who disagreed with Ventura, the House and Senate weren't any help to him in getting his issues passed.  They basically railroaded him and made his term a lame-duck term.  His plans were excellent but he didn't get the help he needed from the House and Senate.

I voted for him and I would again.

- ML

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## itshappening

Gary Johnson would be awesome within the Republican party

why didnt he run for Senator? they have an open seat in New Mexico this year.

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## libertea

> Of course you and others are quit to jump behind him without knowing his stances on issues....that's cool and all 
> 
> Personally, I'll wait until he clarifies where he stands before I back him.


He has my vote.  I jump quickly, I have been reviewing his stance for years.  Also read and recommend his latest book.

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## rockandrollsouls

> He has my vote.  I jump quickly, I have been reviewing his stance for years.  Also read and recommend his latest book.


So you're into moderates then?

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## constituent

> His chest-beating tirade, which most people would equate with conceit and self-aggrandizement, was actually a master showman-slash-general trying to inspire and rally the crowd.  Ventura is a consummate performer!


pass.

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## UCFGavin

isn't he a truther?

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## jmdrake

I like Ventura.  But I think it's a mistake to be focusing on 2012.  *We should be focusing on 2010 and we ALL need to SERIOUSLY think about running for something!*  I'm cringing as I write this because I promised myself decades ago I would never run for anything.  (Had a bad experience on the elementary school student council. [])  But our last primary changed that for me.  I don't know why but here in Tennessee our congressional - state office primaries were held a couple of months after the presidential primaries.  Turnout was abysmal.  But worse there were quite a few state legislature seats on my ballot *with no republican running*!  Note that I do *NOT* live in a heavily democratic district.  We could have at least won primaries just by getting on the stinking ballot!

So, sure.  Start saving your pennies for 2012.  Maybe we can have one huge money bomb on the front end of 100,000 people giving $2,300.00.  (If we all put $2 a day away that's $2,190 without getting any interest.  If we follow Ron Paul's "sound money" advice and buy gold or silver with this money at regular increments who knows how much that will be worth?)  But we need to put our eggs in more baskets and we need to be going for low hanging fruit.  Forgive the food cliche's but I'm TWH (typing while hungry).  The GOP (or the DNC if you decide to run as a dem) can continue to ignore mere "voters" all day long, but they can't ignore their fellow elected officials.

Regards,

John M. Drake

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## angelatc

> Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.    He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  
> 
> WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.


You should talk to the people who live in MN. He's just a tax-n-spend liberal with a redneck  attitude.

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## nate895

I think Gary Johnson would go over much better, and we'd already have one Republican primary in the bag. Hopefully New Mexico would move its primary up closer to the front.

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## inibo

> http://www.ontheissues.org/Jesse_Ventura.htm
> 
> Here are his stances on the state issues. 
> 
> Remember he hasn't issued everything for the federal level.  
> 
> For example:  He is for getting the federal government out of education, but opposes vouchers on the local level.


There is a lot of stuff there that I'm not too happy with.  He needs a bit of education about using the state for "good."

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## PatriotOne

> You need to learn a little more about what Mr. Ventura FAILED to do when he was in office as Minnesota Governor.
> 
> He talks big... but the walk? Not so much.


I guarantee you he has changed his position on many things since he now knows 9/11 was an inside job.  It changes your whole paradigm.  Whatever knowledge he is lacking in certain areas, like Fed Reserve, etc., RP can mentor him.  He has 4 yrs to be groomed to become our perfect candidate.

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## PatriotOne

> There is a lot of stuff there that I'm not too happy with.  He needs a bit of education about using the state for "good."


Like I said above, RP has 4 yrs to mentor him.

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## humanic

> I like Ventura.  But I think it's a mistake to be focusing on 2012.  *We should be focusing on 2010 and we ALL need to SERIOUSLY think about running for something!*  I'm cringing as I write this because I promised myself decades ago I would never run for anything.  (Had a bad experience on the elementary school student council. [])  But our last primary changed that for me.  I don't know why but here in Tennessee our congressional - state office primaries were held a couple of months after the presidential primaries.  Turnout was abysmal.  But worse there were quite a few state legislature seats on my ballot *with no republican running*!  Note that I do *NOT* live in a heavily democratic district.  We could have at least won primaries just by getting on the stinking ballot!
> 
> So, sure.  Start saving your pennies for 2012.  Maybe we can have one huge money bomb on the front end of 100,000 people giving $2,300.00.  (If we all put $2 a day away that's $2,190 without getting any interest.  If we follow Ron Paul's "sound money" advice and buy gold or silver with this money at regular increments who knows how much that will be worth?)  But we need to put our eggs in more baskets and we need to be going for low hanging fruit.  Forgive the food cliche's but I'm TWH (typing while hungry).  The GOP (or the DNC if you decide to run as a dem) can continue to ignore mere "voters" all day long, but they can't ignore their fellow elected officials.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John M. Drake


Exactly.

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## PatriotOne

> You should talk to the people who live in MN. He's just a tax-n-spend liberal with a redneck  attitude.


His paradigm has been changed since he was Gov.

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## WRellim

> I guarantee you he has changed his position on many things since he now knows 9/11 was an inside job.  It changes your whole paradigm.  Whatever knowledge he is lacking in certain areas, like Fed Reserve, etc., RP can mentor him.  He has 4 yrs to be groomed to become our perfect candidate.


Not talking specific issues... I'm talking about lack of follow-through.

He was good at "grandstanding" and vetoed a LOT of stuff (which shows he has guts) -- but seemed to do so in a rather arbitrary way versus what he campaigned on (which shows a lack of consistency and perhaps a few loose marbles).

But of course I'm being nice.  Most Minnesotans thought he was just plain _nuts._

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## inibo

> Like I said above, RP has 4 yrs to mentor him.


Well, as I said, I'm cautiously optimistic.  He looks like a good man, he just needs to grow a little bit.

The great thing about this Rally, we got to see the kind of people who are out there who can carry this forward.  It's not going to happen overnight, but we _are_ going to win in the long run, because if we don't...

Ron Paul told us tonight we have a greater responsibility than those in ignorance.  We know, so it's on us now.

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## Flash

> I think Gary Johnson would go over much better, and we'd already have one Republican primary in the bag. Hopefully New Mexico would move its primary up closer to the front.


I wish Gary Johnson would run for an office in the meantime or something. Just so he can get back involved in politics.

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## nate895

> I wish Gary Johnson would run for an office in the meantime or something. Just so he can get back involved in politics.


I think it'd be best if he just started up the campaign immediately after this election, to give the campaign a lot of time to build cash, a volunteer base, structure, and crucial momentum.

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## PatriotOne

> Not talking specific issues... I'm talking about lack of follow-through.


I would have the same concern but mine would apply to any candidate asking for our support at this point.  I would want to see Ventura become a student for the next couple yrs to understand our concerns.  Fed Reserve.  Foreign policy.  The Constitution.  Etc., etc., etc.  AND I would expect to get progress reports .




> Most Minnesotans thought he was just plain _nuts._


They must of wanted someone nuts then since they elected him

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## PatriotOne

> Ron Paul told us tonight we have a greater responsibility than those in ignorance.  We know, so it's on us now.


So true, so true.

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## jcarcinogen

so 2012 then?

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## itshappening

> I wish Gary Johnson would run for an office in the meantime or something. Just so he can get back involved in politics.


he screwed up, there's an open senate seat in his state which would have been a slam dunk, he would have been Senator Johnson, statesman, executive experience, ready to challenge in 2012, arggh!

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## JohnMeridith

> When looking at Jesse Ventura's record as Governor please keep in mind that he had to have the help of the Minnesota House and Senate to get things accomplished.  Being Republicans and Democrats who disagreed with Ventura, the House and Senate weren't any help to him in getting his issues passed.  They basically railroaded him and made his term a lame-duck term.  His plans were excellent but he didn't get the help he needed from the House and Senate.
> 
> I voted for him and I would again.
> 
> - ML


A HUGE +1

Ron Paul as president wouldn't get much accomplished until the people rang the bell of liberty in the ears of the politicians and threatened their places in D.C.

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## nate895

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/

The Politico is already on it.

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## jcarcinogen

I want to see the evidence.

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## PatriotOne

lol.........

_On November 3‚ 1998‚ Jesse "The Body" Ventura was elected governor of Minnesota. As CBS news anchorman Dan Rather put it on election night‚ "The people of Washington could not be more surprised if Fidel Castro came loping across the midwestern prairie on the back of a hippopotamus."_

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## josephadel_3

There will be no America and thus no voting in 2012.

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## Flash

> he screwed up, there's an open senate seat in his state which would have been a slam dunk, he would have been Senator Johnson, statesman, executive experience, ready to challenge in 2012, arggh!




I wonder if theres any other seats that Johnson could run for still? Unless the deadline is already passed.

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## MGreen

No thanks.

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## Kotin

should we start a Jesse Ventura forum?

Either that or a subforum for it. I'd prefer the former as it seems there are some who don't support him..

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## DFF

God, I LOVE it! 

"To Hell with the Patriot Act!" 

Jesse "The Body" Ventura in 2012!

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## anaconda

> Ventura is open minded and good at learning.
> 
> Give him some time to take in Ron Paul's values on economics and free markets. Let's help SHAPE him as a politician... and not in the slimey politician way, in the logical statesman way.


danno you raise a fascinating point...why not "help" the candidate? Could we develop some direct connection to the candidate?. Or, is there some other way? Economics can be a real squirrely subject at first. It had not occurred to me that Ventura might wish to do some hard homework and grow.

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## anaconda

> Ventura is no libertarian.


What is his position on drugs? The income tax? Abortion? Anybody know?

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## nate895

> What is his position on drugs? The income tax? Abortion? Anybody know?


He is against the war on drugs, I don't know about the income tax, and he is pro-choice. That's only 1/3 (war on drugs), on the least important issue of the three, for me. I think he makes a good ally, but not really my perfect presidential candidate or leader of the movement as a whole.

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## anaconda

> I haven't been impressed by Ventura. He seemed somewhat threatening in his attitude during TV interviews, and doesn't really put forward arguments for things without resorting to "I served in the Navy Seals, did you?" I think we can do better.


But can we do better from a senator or former governor? These two credentials seem to follow most presidents into office lately. I can't think of the last president that was not either a senator or governor.

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## nate895

> But can we do better from a senator or former governor? These two credentials seem to follow most presidents into office lately. I can't think of who the last president that was not either a senator or governor.


Gary Johnson has more experience, he was governor for two terms, not just one, and I like him a lot more.

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## anaconda

> Gary Johnson has more experience, he was governor for two terms, not just one, and I like him a lot more.


Thanks for the update. I'll check him out.

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## anaconda

> He is against the war on drugs, I don't know about the income tax, and he is pro-choice. That's only 1/3 (war on drugs), on the least important issue of the three, for me. I think he makes a good ally, but not really my perfect presidential candidate or leader of the movement as a whole.


The drug war is extremely important and underrated as an issue, because it funds all of the off-balance sheet black op money for the CIA. Cutting the narco dollars would be bad news for the NWO.

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## anaconda

> When looking at Jesse Ventura's record as Governor please keep in mind that he had to have the help of the Minnesota House and Senate to get things accomplished. Being Republicans and Democrats who disagreed with Ventura, the House and Senate weren't any help to him in getting his issues passed. They basically railroaded him and made his term a lame-duck term. His plans were excellent but he didn't get the help he needed from the House and Senate.
> 
> I voted for him and I would again.
> 
> - ML


This point is so crucial. It will be imperative for everyone to put the squeeze on their lame ass Senators and House Representatives when we get our Freedom candidate elected. And also important to vote for freedom candidates into Congress.

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## AggieforPaul

I'm not voting for a pro-choice president, so he's got 4 years to change his mind on that one. His stance on the borders also makes me uncomfortable.

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## BarryDonegan

I'm not comfortable with pro-choice, but if someone from a third party who wants to end the fed and end our foreign policy nightmare, cut back the size of government, i would compromise for that if he was a sure winner.

much like I kindof regret not supporting Pat Buchanan at points even tho I do not approve of his viewpoint toward protectionism and social issues.

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## AggieforPaul

> I'm not comfortable with pro-choice, but if someone from a third party who wants to end the fed and end our foreign policy nightmare, cut back the size of government, i would compromise for that if he was a sure winner.
> 
> much like I kindof regret not supporting Pat Buchanan at points even tho I do not approve of his viewpoint toward protectionism and social issues.


I would have voted for Buchanan if I'd been 18, despite his protectionist streak. I can't bring myself to vote for a pro-choice guy though. Just like we're all upset that the neo-cons took over the Republican party's foreign policy, Im not too excited about the prospect of pro-choicers taking over this aspect of the LP/CFL/Ron paul base/whatever

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## cswake

Primary plank of Paul's platform is following the Constitution and that means RvW is a States' Rights issue.

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## nate895

> The drug war is extremely important and underrated as an issue, because it funds all of the off-balance sheet black op money for the CIA. Cutting the narco dollars would be bad news for the NWO.


It's an important issue for me too, it's just that it's not my number one issue. It's an issue that, on the state-level, compromise on. Though, a candidate must agree that the Feds shouldn't be able to conduct a war on drugs.

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## BarryDonegan

> I would have voted for Buchanan if I'd been 18, despite his protectionist streak. I can't bring myself to vote for a pro-choice guy though. Just like we're all upset that the neo-cons took over the Republican party's foreign policy, Im not too excited about the prospect of pro-choicers taking over this aspect of the LP/CFL/Ron paul base/whatever


let's be real, the pro choicers took both parties, and the heart of the nation, a long time ago.

you have to pick your battles, the republican party has done literally nothing regarding abortion, ever, since roe v. wade.

i would love to see any kind of population control or eugenics based stuff like that end, but we have a long way to go before that passes.  ending the fed or stopping these insane wars are easier to convince people to buy into.

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## Conza88

Ron Paul 2012. Reagan was 76 when in Office.

Ron Paul looks 55.

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## LibertyEagle

> so 2012 then?


Huh?  We can't just sit on our asses until 2012!  If you guys think we're going to take this country back from the top level, I just don't know what to say.  It's really not going to be that simple.  We need to stop looking for a "leader" and start being ones ourselves.  C4L is all about helping us get involved in our local and state politics and take our country back from the ground floor.

If we sit around and wait until 2012, believing that some miracle person is going to ride in on a white horse and save us all, we're going to have another rude awakening.  It ain't gonna happen.

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## kombayn

Jesse Ventura/Gary Johnson 2012 - The REAL Independent Ticket

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## VTV

> When looking at Jesse Ventura's record as Governor please keep in mind that he had to have the help of the Minnesota House and Senate to get things accomplished.  Being Republicans and Democrats who disagreed with Ventura, the House and Senate weren't any help to him in getting his issues passed.  They basically railroaded him and made his term a lame-duck term.  His plans were excellent but he didn't get the help he needed from the House and Senate.
> 
> I voted for him and I would again.
> 
> - ML


This is why local candidates are far more important then the presidential race in this stage of the game. This is the EXACT same thing that would of happened to Ron Paul if we somehow got him nominated. His enemies in both parties would of screwed him as a president. 

The presidency would be nice, but it might as well be an election from prom queen as far as effective it will be if you don't get out there and get more congressmen and senators. Period.

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## VTV

Honestly guys, the pro-choice/life thing should not be an issue. We make a big stink about this in every election. We have had pro life and pro choice presidents and nothing has changed on this issue.

Can you think of the last time that the President's position on this has mattered? I don't think it ever has. 

Http://www.nks2008.com

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## Conza88

If Ron doesn't run..... Ventura, or SOMEONE... then have RP as VP...

But Rp.... RUNS the show...  

Would you use executive orders to get rid of the Fed etc... ? Instead of through congress? lol...

Benevolent dictatorship... LOL.

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## jbuttell

> There is a lot of stuff there that I'm not too happy with.  He needs a bit of education about using the state for "good."


Yeah, disappointing to see that, that definitely discourages me from wanting to support him. I hvae to say, the guy definitely knows how to get people's blood pumping. Though I've heard him speak more recently and I'd be more willing to trust that he has grown over the years (most of those comments were from around 1999) than Bob Barr.  We'll see...

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## Anti Federalist

> Ventura is open minded and good at learning. 
> 
> Give him some time to take in Ron Paul's values on economics and free markets. Let's help SHAPE him as a politician... and not in the slimey politician way, in the logical statesman way.


+1776

Ventura 2012!!

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## Slist

As much as I like ventura, I AM ABSOLUTELY convinced that the 2012 candidate has to come out of one of the two big parties.. Ron Paul would not have gotten a fraction of the attention would he not have been Republican. The average voter watches the debates, that's were Ron Paul was visible nationwide. And even if they asked him less questions than the other candidates, he still had his primetime appearance and netted a lot of new supporters.

That's why I am skeptical about the possibility to succeed with Ventura. I agree that both big parties are essentially "evil", but for 2012 YOU NEED the media attention their hopefuls get... that's my take

----------


## liberteebell

> Gary Johnson would be awesome within the Republican party
> 
> why didnt he run for Senator? they have an open seat in New Mexico this year.



I didn't know anything about Gary Johnson until his speech yesterday, which I loved!!  He seems to really "get it".   I realize we have to work at the local level but we still need someone to run in 2012 with our message.  Right now, I'm backing Gary Johnson.

----------


## New York For Paul

> As much as I like ventura, I AM ABSOLUTELY convinced that the 2012 candidate has to come out of one of the two big parties.. Ron Paul would not have gotten a fraction of the attention would he not have been Republican. The average voter watches the debates, that's were Ron Paul was visible nationwide. And even if they asked him less questions than the other candidates, he still had his primetime appearance and netted a lot of new supporters.
> 
> That's why I am skeptical about the possibility to succeed with Ventura. I agree that both big parties are essentially "evil", but for 2012 YOU NEED the media attention their hopefuls get... that's my take


The debates really pushed Ron Paul to the forefront.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> Yeah, disappointing to see that, that definitely discourages me from wanting to support him. I hvae to say, the guy definitely knows how to get people's blood pumping. Though I've heard him speak more recently and I'd be more willing to trust that he has grown over the years (most of those comments were from around 1999) than Bob Barr.  We'll see...


Ventura is a tax n' spend liberal + a truther....and people are quick to embrace him just like they are Palin. If people here are ready to jump on the Jesse bandwagon say goodbye to any chance we have in 2012.

----------


## rbu

Ventura will do it in 2012 if we show him were ready to work for him. 

See my sig if you want to help get it started.

----------


## LibertyEagle

I'm unclear as to why you guys love Ventura so much.  I didn't notice him coming out in support of Ron during the campaign, when it mattered.  Did I miss it?

I understand that he is attractive to some because of his views on 9-11 and his generally pissed off attitude, but does anyone know his stance on limited government, states' rights, etc.?

----------


## CUnknown

I'm on board with Ventura.

Those who are not on board, care to suggest an alternative with equal name recognition?  I seriously doubt you can.

----------


## RevolutionSD

> As much as I like ventura, I AM ABSOLUTELY convinced that the 2012 candidate has to come out of one of the two big parties.. Ron Paul would not have gotten a fraction of the attention would he not have been Republican. The average voter watches the debates, that's were Ron Paul was visible nationwide. And even if they asked him less questions than the other candidates, he still had his primetime appearance and netted a lot of new supporters.
> 
> That's why I am skeptical about the possibility to succeed with Ventura. I agree that both big parties are essentially "evil", but for 2012 YOU NEED the media attention their hopefuls get... that's my take


FORGET about the MSM propaganda machine already! By 2011, we will all be watching TV on our computers, giving us more choices. Why would you still tune in to CNN, Fox, ABC, etc? Do you forget what they did to RP in the primaries?? Do you forget the BLACKOUT 3 weeks prior to the elections? ZERO coverage before super tuesday.

It's not understandable to me why we would continue to bow down to the soon to be irrelevant msm at this point.

----------


## cska80

Although I don't believe our government planted bombs in the world trade center buildings, atleast not one and two, I do believe there are many unanswered questions about 9/11 as well as a lot of misinformation and lies. I do not think a presidential candidate can be speaking about 9/11 conspiracy theories and be taken seriously by the general public, and definatley not the media. Ventura speaks his mind and I love him for it, but he'll bring the movement down if we were to get behind him as a candidate in 2012.

----------


## SLSteven

Jesse said he "might" run in 2012 *if* we act to show him the movement is on the rise.  We need to show him ballot access and inclusion in the debates.

----------


## Slist

> FORGET about the MSM propaganda machine already! By 2011, we will all be watching TV on our computers, giving us more choices. Why would you still tune in to CNN, Fox, ABC, etc? Do you forget what they did to RP in the primaries?? Do you forget the BLACKOUT 3 weeks prior to the elections? ZERO coverage before super tuesday.
> 
> It's not understandable to me why we would continue to bow down to the soon to be irrelevant msm at this point.


I beg to differ: using that way of thinking, print media should have been substituted by radio decades ago and television should have substituted radio years ago. While you are right that internet is going to be way more important (and ALL candidates in 2012 WILL have understood that), many people will still watch television debates. And that's not even the point. What I am trying to say is that in 2012 there will be public gatherings of candidates... may these be tv debates or internet chat debates... and these gatherings will be those of the hopefuls of the both big parties. That's what interests the media, that what catches the attention of the broad public. 

My point is that for an indipendent candidate it will be a VERY tough battle since the media, whatever form it will have in 2012, will mostly cover the primaries and talk about the most likely/interesting republican and democratic candidates. I know that they might have an agenda and whatever... but trying to do something without the media?? By somehow boycotting them? Is that doing any good???

Therefore: our candidate should be in a major party, I (unfortunately) fear that otherwise he would get no attention. I would prefer it if it was not necessary, but I guess that is one of the major requirements for a candidate. Lets create a revolution inside the Republicans first. That is something to talk about... not some "third party candidate"

----------


## libertea

> I'm unclear as to why you guys love Ventura so much.  I didn't notice him coming out in support of Ron during the campaign, when it mattered.  Did I miss it?
> 
> I understand that he is attractive to some because of his views on 9-11 and his generally pissed off attitude, but does anyone know his stance on limited government, states' rights, etc.?


He is anti establishment, he has name recognition and he CAN WIN.  There may be independent candidates with better stances on the issue, but with zero chance.  Rocking the establishment is more important than issues at this point.  I agree with him about 70%.  I agree with Ron Paul about 85%.  I agree with myself about 80%.

My apologies to all Republicans.  This is where I disagree with Ron Paul.  The Single party system with its 2 branches must go.   

I am not a "truther" although I do have questions.  Oops, I forgot, asking questions is off limits.  Call Homeland Security so they can put me on their "Enemy Combatant" list.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> I'm unclear as to why you guys love Ventura so much.  I didn't notice him coming out in support of Ron during the campaign, when it mattered.  Did I miss it?
> 
> I understand that he is attractive to some because of his views on 9-11 and his generally pissed off attitude, but does anyone know his stance on limited government, states' rights, etc.?


He doesn't have any. He talks talks talks but can't walk. He was inconsistent in MN and people here won't even research his record.

The truthers got Tucker to leave last night from what I understand....seems like it's becoming more about "911 Inside Job" rather than "less taxation, less government, more freedom." With the constant Palin and Ventura touting I'm not sure how those people identified with the movement in the first place.

Ugh.

----------


## nullvalu

> If we sit around and wait until 2012, believing that some miracle person is going to ride in on a white horse and save us all, we're going to have another rude awakening.  It ain't gonna happen.


Absolutely 100% agree.

Ventura seems alright in his views, but he also seems quite self-serving. Can you say Ron Paul has ever demonstrated an ounce of selfishness?

Anyways, the point is YOU have to make the difference, not hope and pray someone else will.

I found this great quote that I decided to change to my signature, it says everything about what must be done.
*
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors" -Plato*

Please, we must all step forth and be Ron Pauls. Or Jesse Ventura. Or whoever else in this movement you respect. But the burden cannot fall on one man's shoulders.

----------


## The Lantern

> Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have  single candidate to rally around.
> 
> Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.  Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate.  He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul. 
> 
> Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please.  He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  
> 
> WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.


I am not interested in Jesse Ventura, unless he becomes a Republican.  I am a Ron Paul Republican and intend to take my party back because we have the best chance of success when we work within the party structure.  Third parties have no chance and even Ron Paul is in agreement.  So come, Jesse,  if you are serious, register Republican.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> I am not interested in Jesse Ventura, unless he becomes a Republican.  I am a Ron Paul Republican and intend to take my party back because we have the best chance of success when we work within the party structure.  Third parties have no chance and even Ron Paul is in agreement.  So come, Jesse,  if you are serious, register Republican.


How about the majority of you check yourself and what you stand for. If Jesse registers republican he better show me true republican values. Palin isn't a conservative. jesse isn't a conservative, yet you people drool over both of them. Their records are rubbish.

----------


## DAFTEK

> i am not interested in jesse ventura, unless he becomes a republican. I am a ron paul republican and intend to take my party back because we have the best chance of success when we work within the party structure. Third parties have no chance and even ron paul is in agreement. So come, jesse, if you are serious, register republican.


+2012

----------


## DAFTEK

> How about the majority of you check yourself and what you stand for. If Jesse registers republican he better show me true republican values. Palin isn't a conservative. jesse isn't a conservative, yet you people drool over both of them. Their records are rubbish.


 
Again with the attacks, this is why I'm backing of posting on this forum, no wonder 90% of the old members are no longer here!!!! If one cant express their personal opinion what good is this forum? Why does it have to be a one way street thinking? One way streets never get anywhere except in long circles.....

----------


## inibo

> Absolutely 100% agree.
> 
> Ventura seems alright in his views, but he also seems quite self-serving. Can you say Ron Paul has ever demonstrated an ounce of selfishness?
> 
> Anyways, the point is YOU have to make the difference, not hope and pray someone else will.
> 
> I found this great quote that I decided to change to my signature, it says everything about what must be done.
> *
> "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors" -Plato*
> ...


+1

----------


## Andrew-Austin

> Again with the attacks, this is why I'm backing of posting on this forum, no wonder 90% of the old members are no longer here!!!! *If one cant express their personal opinion what good is this forum?* Why does it have to be a one way street thinking? One way streets never get anywhere except in long circles.....


I believe he just expressed his own opinion, and your just having a hard time accepting it. Go ahead, root for Palin all you want. Don't expect people to not root _against_ her and McCain though.

----------


## yongrel

I'll type this slowly because I know some of you can't read very fast: A Truther cannot win a national election.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> I'll type this slowly because I know some of you can't read very fast: A Truther cannot win a national election.


Not only that, the truthers don't even have a valid argument. A relative of mine was killed on 9/11. I saw planes hit buildings. You guys are crazy. Truthers will go and back a candidate that doesn't have one ounce of fiscal responsibility or a track record of reducing government. Isn't that what this movement stood for? Good lord....just go and throw all of our ideals out the window for names like Palin and Ventura.

----------


## DAFTEK

> I believe he just expressed his own opinion, and your just having a hard time accepting it. Go ahead, root for Palin all you want. Don't expect people to not root _against_ her and McCain though.


What are you talking about? Show me a post where i asked people to get behind me and root for her?  I also believe that i am expressing my opinion! Ain't that a bitch huh? pfhhh

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> What are you talking about? Show me a post where i asked people to get behind me and root for her?  I also believe that i am expressing my opinion! Ain't that a bitch huh? pfhhh


only yours is uneducated and unsupported. You have a palin avatar for christs sake.

----------


## DAFTEK

> only yours is uneducated and unsupported. You have a palin avatar for christs sake.


You make no sence.... lol The avatar has Ron Paul in it, Thank You   it comes from http://images.google.com/images?um=1...8&sa=N&ndsp=18

Anything else?

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> You make no sence.... lol The avatar has Ron Paul in it, Thank You   it comes from http://images.google.com/images?um=1...8&sa=N&ndsp=18
> 
> Anything else?


Yea...the fact you can't spell and have been chanting "Palin Ventura" the past few days, along with others, makes me wonder if you really know what fiscal conservatism and personal liberty really is.

----------


## DAFTEK

> Yea...the fact you can't spell and have been chanting "Palin Ventura" the past few days, along with others, makes me wonder if you really know what fiscal conservatism and personal liberty really is.


 
Ahhh, more personal atacks... 

FYI: I is a colloge graduit and i blame my spelling on Microsoft words, how-bout you?  lol....  Dude, get a life and quit with them falls accusations! Ventura is an ass who needs to get a suit and take a shower, then register Republican  Palin is hot, i would love to slap that ass, even my wife has the hots for her 

Anywaywho  did i spelle that right?.. haha.. i would tell you to go and lick my hershey squirts but that would be considered an attack?  QFT

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> Ahhh, more personal atacks... 
> 
> FYI: I is a colloge graduit and i blame my spelling on Microsoft words, how-bout you?  lol....  Dude, get a life and quit with them falls accusations! Ventura is an ass who needs to get a suit and take a shower, then register Republican  Palin is hot, i would love to slap that ass, even my wife has the hots for her 
> 
> Anywaywho  did i spelle that right?.. haha.. i would tell you to go and lick my hershey squirts but that would be considered an attack?  QFT


GHemminger...is that you?

----------


## DAFTEK

Ohh, ser, you maind teling me were my spiling eror is? I donts want to dy stupid...

----------


## DAFTEK

> GHemminger...is that you?


Ohhhh! SNAP!!!!

----------


## VTV

I anticipate that we will never get 100% behind anyone ever again. And that this movement will splinter into a thousand shards before we even get to 2012.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> I anticipate that we will never get 100% behind anyone ever again. And that this movement will splinter into a thousand shards before we even get to 2012.


I'd just like people to vote for anyone that is a fiscal conservative and has a good record....ventura and palin just don't.  There's so much hype behind them and they've never done anything great.

Vote for Baldwin, Barr...write in Paul...anything just don't vote for moderate jokes with an overhyped resume like ventura and palin.

----------


## VTV

Every candidate is a person. No person will agree with you 100% on everything. And to think we are ever going to find someone whom all the diverse people in this movement agree with 100% is absurd. 

I worked with Mike Gravel when he went Libertarian. I did not agree with everything he said 100%, but he was honest with me and didn't try to convince me he agreed with me either. And that is why I supported him. I would rather have someone I didn't agree with 100% who tells me the truth then someone who claims to agree with me 100% who I can tell is lying. (Like Bob Barr).

We are never going to find the silver bullet candidate. The one who is going to appease the truthers, the anarchists, the Libertarians, the Republicans, the theocrats, etc. And even when we all got behind Ron Paul it was not enough. The infighting also is hugely counter productive.

----------


## Alex Libman

I'm done with electoral politics.  It only encourages the status quo.  Think of all the time and money that was wasted on the Ron Paul campaign, and it was mere masturbation - it made us feel good for a while, but it didn't accomplish anything, and it has kept us from going after the real thing.  Imagine all that time and money going toward something like the Free State Project, or, better yet, the Seasteading Institute!  You cannot free those who want to be slaves!  Ultimately, the only vote that matters is when the best and brightest of this country vote with their feet, leave for greener pastures, and lead by example.  Sooner or later, Atlas will shrug!


EDIT:  I don't want to hijack this thread, so I spun of a new "DON'T VOTE !!!" thread, please reply there.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> Every candidate is a person. No person will agree with you 100% on everything. And to think we are ever going to find someone whom all the diverse people in this movement agree with 100% is absurd. 
> 
> I worked with Mike Gravel when he went Libertarian. I did not agree with everything he said 100%, but he was honest with me and didn't try to convince me he agreed with me either. And that is why I supported him. I would rather have someone I didn't agree with 100% who tells me the truth then someone who claims to agree with me 100% who I can tell is lying. (Like Bob Barr).
> 
> We are never going to find the silver bullet candidate. The one who is going to appease the truthers, the anarchists, the Libertarians, the Republicans, the theocrats, etc. And even when we all got behind Ron Paul it was not enough. The infighting also is hugely counter productive.


1st and foremost, you are not God's gift to man with a lie detector. Nice try, but no dice.

2nd. Why would you support someone that would drive the country into the ground? Mike went Libertarian, but his policies sure weren't. Government health care, government alternative energy, etc etc. Just because someone says they are something doesn't mean they are. Yea, you don't have to agree with someone 100% but there is a fine line between socialism and libertarianism, buddy.

I will be voting for someone based on their stances on issues. Not because they are a good person, or because I like their wife, or because I think their company is good. If someone is saying "Lower taxation, more personal liberty, smaller government, freer markets" that is my person. Jesse Ventura doesn't say any of that and hasn't said any of that recently. It's not like he's come out and said "Yea, I did this this and this wrong and I stand here now." So I think it's safe to assume he follows his tired tax and spend agenda. Palin is a liar and hypocrite.

Bob has mad mistakes in the past, but he's come to acknowledge them and has been working in the Libertarian party for a couple years and has clarified exactly where he stands and what he's running on.

If Jesse could have a revelation by then he might be worth considering, but he hasn't done anything except blow wind as of late.

The moral of the story is vote for someone running on the idea of personal liberty, lower taxation, and government cuts. There are currently 2 men doing that right now.

----------


## nate895

> I'm done with electoral politics.  It only encourages the status quo.  Think of all the time and money that was wasted on the Ron Paul campaign, and it was mere masturbation - it made us feel good for a while, but it didn't accomplish anything, and it has kept us from going after the real thing.  Imagine all that time and money going toward something like the Free State Project, or, better yet, the Seasteading Institute!  You cannot free those who want to be slaves!  Ultimately, the only vote that matters is when the best and brightest of this country vote with their feet, leave for greener pastures, and lead by example.  Sooner or later, Atlas will shrug!


That may be a solution for libertarians. It is not a solution for us conservatives. We may want our own state to secede, but we don't want to pick up and abandon our homes and everything we hold dear for the achievement of mere political goals.

----------


## aspiringconstitutionalist

> I'm done with electoral politics.  It only encourages the status quo.  Think of all the time and money that was wasted on the Ron Paul campaign, and it was mere masturbation - it made us feel good for a while, but it didn't accomplish anything, and it has kept us from going after the real thing.  Imagine all that time and money going toward something like the Free State Project, or, better yet, the Seasteading Institute!  You cannot free those who want to be slaves!  Ultimately, the only vote that matters is when the best and brightest of this country vote with their feet, leave for greener pastures, and lead by example.  Sooner or later, Atlas will shrug!


If it hadn't been for such "masturbation," I and thousands of other people would never have been woken up to the principles of liberty.  The Ron Paul campaign was probably the best investment of libertarians' time and money in all of American history, with the possible exception of the original Revolution.

----------


## VTV

> 1st and foremost, you are not God's gift to man with a lie detector. Nice try, but no dice.
> 
> 2nd. Why would you support someone that would drive the country into the ground? Mike went Libertarian, but his policies sure weren't. Government health care, government alternative energy, etc etc. Just because someone says they are something doesn't mean they are. Yea, you don't have to agree with someone 100% but there is a fine line between socialism and libertarianism, buddy.
> 
> I will be voting for someone based on their stances on issues. Not because they are a good person, or because I like their wife, or because I think their company is good. If someone is saying "Lower taxation, more personal liberty, smaller government, freer markets" that is my person. Jesse Ventura doesn't say any of that and hasn't said any of that recently. It's not like he's come out and said "Yea, I did this this and this wrong and I stand here now." So I think it's safe to assume he follows his tired tax and spend agenda. Palin is a liar and hypocrite.
> 
> Bob has mad mistakes in the past, but he's come to acknowledge them and has been working in the Libertarian party for a couple years and has clarified exactly where he stands and what he's running on.
> 
> If Jesse could have a revelation by then he might be worth considering, but he hasn't done anything except blow wind as of late.
> ...


And your not god's gift to identifying Libertarianism. You ever spoken to Bob Barr in person? I have. I wonder if you knew that he supports the same taxation that Gravel does? The fair tax? 

Gravel is not a candidate anymore, so much of this is moot. But the Barr supporters particularly in comparing Gravel always astound me with their logic. There are supposed to be all these things I am supposed to believe that Barr has "reformed on" that Gravel never would of done in the first place. Even as a democrat. 

I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on the war. He has always been strong on that.

I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on the war on drugs. He has always been strong on that.

I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on Civil Liberties. He has always been strong on that.

I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on the issue of gay's getting married. He has always been strong on that. 

I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on freedom of religion. He has always been strong on that. 

Bob Barr was a fantastic failure in all of these categories. And even now avoids talking about them, or gives really hazy answers. 

But thank you for proving my point. Everyone will have their own reasons for not supporting anyone we put up. And the end result is we will still be completely ineffective when the time comes. We will argue all these issues, meanwhile the real fascists will keep on trucking. And we will keep on being fringe.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> And your not god's gift to identifying Libertarianism. You ever spoken to Bob Barr in person? I have. 
> 
> But thank you for proving my point. Everyone will have their own reasons for not supporting anyone we put up. And the end result is we will still be completely ineffective when the time comes. We will argue all these issues, meanwhile the real fascists will keep on trucking. And we will keep on being fringe.


You're right. The party platform defines that. Mike Gravel didn't exactly fit. But, then again, there are faux libertarians like faux conservatives. You're jacking the party by supporting guys like Gravel just like the Republican party was jacked.

We know one person here who doesn't love freedom or limited government...YOU. You were supporting a guy who stood for the opposite. You just go on to support my theory that people here don't know what real liberty and freedom are.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> And your not god's gift to identifying Libertarianism. You ever spoken to Bob Barr in person? I have. I wonder if you knew that he supports the same taxation that Gravel does? The fair tax? 
> 
> Gravel is not a candidate anymore, so much of this is moot. But the Barr supporters particularly in comparing Gravel always astound me with their logic. There are supposed to be all these things I am supposed to believe that Barr has "reformed on" that Gravel never would of done in the first place. Even as a democrat. 
> 
> I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on the war. He has always been strong on that.
> 
> I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on the war on drugs. He has always been strong on that.
> 
> I don't have to go out on a limb with Gravel on Civil Liberties. He has always been strong on that.
> ...


Bob Barr has stated what he is running on. You can choose to believe him or not. Mike has told us where he stands, and that's on the shoulder of the government. Welfare, handouts, socialized medicine. 

Let me put it this way. If you think Mike's policies are Libertarian, John McCain is more of a libertarian than he is.

----------


## VTV

> Bob Barr has stated what he is running on. You can choose to believe him or not. Mike has told us where he stands, and that's on the shoulder of the government. Welfare, handouts, socialized medicine. 
> 
> Let me put it this way. If you think Mike's policies are Libertarian, John McCain is more of a libertarian than he is.


And Bob Barr's record is just as bad as John McCain's. If not worse. Your point? 

I think I remember making it clear I didn't agree with him on a lot of things. If you want to see what my personal views are then you can see them at Http://www.nks2008.com. 

This witch hunt stuff of me clearly being a socialist just because I am friends with someone who has some socialistic ideas is another part of the problem. 

Gravel may be socialistic on some issues. Bob Barr's career is laden with Neo-con and fascist agendas. 

At this stage of the game, I am a lot more worried about the Patriot act, and other pieces of garbage that Bob Barr either authored, sponsored, voted for himself or that candidates that his PAC funded turned around and did the same then I am worried about the socialist problem. One thing at a time. If we don't band together to stop stuff like that, we won't even be able to have this debate. We spoke out against government policy. We will all be in the FEMA camps together after being declared terrorists.

And if you think Mike stood on the shoulder of the government, you clearly were not listening.

----------


## DAFTEK

> I'd just like people to vote for anyone that is a fiscal conservative and has a good record....ventura and palin just don't. There's so much hype behind them and they've never done anything great.
> 
> Vote for Baldwin, Barr...write in Paul...anything just don't vote for moderate jokes with an overhyped resume like ventura and palin.


I'm sure millions of Obama fans would disagree with your statement.... You should really quit blasting people for their personal views and rather reason with them, everyone is entitle to an opinion whether you disagree with that or not reason dictates the outcome.... you cant force someone to learn how to swim by throwing them in the ocean. Who shoved a candidate up your ass forcefully in this thread? Good God you're worse then that Menthol guy.... 

PS: It's "OVER HYPED" not "OVERHYPED"  and you should be fair to all by spelling their names with a Capital

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> I'm sure millions of Obama fans would disagree with your statement.... You should really quit blasting people for their personal views and rather reason with them, everyone is entitle to an opinion whether you disagree with that or not reason dictates the outcome.... you cant force someone to learn how to swim by throwing them in the ocean. Who shoved a candidate up your ass forcefully in this thread? Good God you're worse then that Menthol guy.... 
> 
> PS: It's "OVER HYPED" not "OVERHYPED"  and you should be fair to all people by spelling their names with a Capital


GHemminger?

----------


## VTV

> I'm sure millions of Obama fans would disagree with your statement.... You should really quit blasting people for their personal views and rather reason with them, everyone is entitle to an opinion whether you disagree with that or not reason dictates the outcome.... you cant force someone to learn how to swim by throwing them in the ocean. Who shoved a candidate up your ass forcefully in this thread? Good God you're worse then that Menthol guy.... 
> 
> PS: It's "OVER HYPED" not "OVERHYPED"  and you should be fair to all by spelling their names with a Capital


This is also a serious part of the problem. Does he think he won anyone over with that troll-like insulting behavior? All he managed to do was alienate someone else further. If he had a good point to make, it was lost in the way he made his argument.

----------


## DAFTEK

> This is also a serious part of the problem. Does he think he won anyone over with that troll-like insulting behavior? All he managed to do was alienate someone else further. If he had a good point to make, it was lost in the way he made his argument.


Rockandrolldude needs a chill pill, anyone have one?

----------


## DAFTEK

> GHemminger?


You keep saying that word, is that some kind of slang?

----------


## rockandrollsouls

> This is also a serious part of the problem. Does he think he won anyone over with that troll-like insulting behavior? All he managed to do was alienate someone else further. If he had a good point to make, it was lost in the way he made his argument.


Well, let's see. If you've been given the option of a freedom candidate and a tool of the establishment and you continually try to defend the tool of the establishment, I'm not going to praise you for it.

Freedom doesn't have to win anyone over. If you discover it and believe in it, there doesn't need to be convincing. It's as simple as that. Those of you that are defecting to McCain, Obama, and other candidates are not for freedom. The ones who truly value it will be doing the right thing....just don't call yourself a Paul supporter if you go and vote for someone like Palin, Ventura, McCain, Obama, or anyone else like that. You give us a bad name. Those of us really fighting are not so easily swayed.

Sorry if that offends you, but I, as well as many others, are not playing party politics. We aren't choosing the lesser of evils. We are voting for those who we feel truly represent freedom.

Let me reiterate. You know the candidates. You know their stances. If you defect on freedom to a lesser candidate you don't need convincing...you belong to the fool that you vote for. Just stop trolling the board if you're not really a proponent of true liberty. I'm sick of hearing "faux" freedom fighters here. Don't group yourself with those of us that want REAL freedom. It's shameful.

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## DAFTEK

> Well, let's see. If you've been given the option of a freedom candidate and a tool of the establishment and you continually try to defend the tool of the establishment, I'm not going to praise you for it.
> 
> Freedom doesn't have to win anyone over. If you discover it and believe in it, there doesn't need to be convincing. It's as simple as that. Those of you that are defecting to McCain, Obama, and other candidates are not for freedom. The ones who truly value it will be doing the right thing....just don't call yourself a Paul supporter if you go and vote for someone like Palin, Ventura, McCain, Obama, or anyone else like that. You give us a bad name. Those of us really fighting are not so easily swayed.
> 
> Sorry if that offends you, but I, as well as many others, are not playing party politics. We aren't choosing the lesser of evils. We are voting for those who we feel truly represent freedom.


DUDE! Give it up already, you've made your point a dozen times.... F-n annoying now....

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## rockandrollsouls

> DUDE! Give it up already, you've made your point a dozen times.... F-n annoying now....


Then stop spamming the board with Palin and Ventura pictures and I won't have to ward off you traitors.

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## DAFTEK

> Then stop spamming the board with Palin and Ventura pictures and I won't have to ward off you traitors.


Why dont you make me! PUNK!




lol...

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## rockandrollsouls

> Why dont you make me! PUNK!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol...


Reported. I'm not interested in playing games with you.

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## DAFTEK

> Reported. I'm not interested in playing games with you.


lol what exactly did you report?

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## DAFTEK

OK, lets get back on topic....

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## SnappleLlama

> OK, lets get back on topic....


Ha, ha!!

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## inibo

> I'm done with electoral politics.  It only encourages the status quo.  Think of all the time and money that was wasted on the Ron Paul campaign, and it was mere masturbation - it made us feel good for a while, but it didn't accomplish anything, and it has kept us from going after the real thing.


I disagree.  

I was pretty much ignorant of free market economics and the Federal Reserve before Ron Paul's campaign.  I liked him for his anti-war and civil liberties positions, not realizing that an imperial foreign policy and the police state are the symptoms, not the cause.  I spent the last eighteen months hanging on every word of a wise, humble man explaining what to me was an obscure boring topic in a way that made it simple, clear and understandable.  He also got me excited about what I had learned and encouraged me to educate myself further.  The $2,000.00 I gave him was worth every penny.

Maybe everyone else beside me was already well versed in Austrian economics and didn't hear anything new, but I doubt it.    I suspect a large plurality if not the majority of his supporters went through a similar transformation. We are now a small army, we know what's wrong and how to fix it.  

It was not a waste.

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## VTV

> Well, let's see. If you've been given the option of a freedom candidate and a tool of the establishment and you continually try to defend the tool of the establishment, I'm not going to praise you for it.
> 
> Freedom doesn't have to win anyone over. If you discover it and believe in it, there doesn't need to be convincing. It's as simple as that. Those of you that are defecting to McCain, Obama, and other candidates are not for freedom. The ones who truly value it will be doing the right thing....just don't call yourself a Paul supporter if you go and vote for someone like Palin, Ventura, McCain, Obama, or anyone else like that. You give us a bad name. Those of us really fighting are not so easily swayed.
> 
> Sorry if that offends you, but I, as well as many others, are not playing party politics. We aren't choosing the lesser of evils. We are voting for those who we feel truly represent freedom.
> 
> Let me reiterate. You know the candidates. You know their stances. If you defect on freedom to a lesser candidate you don't need convincing...you belong to the fool that you vote for. Just stop trolling the board if you're not really a proponent of true liberty. I'm sick of hearing "faux" freedom fighters here. Don't group yourself with those of us that want REAL freedom. It's shameful.


Bob Barr is a lesser candidate. Period. And don't be so arrogant as to assume you get to choose who "us" is.  Oh yeah. One more thing. If Gravel is so terrible and un-libertarian, why did Bob Barr's campaign swarm around Mike Gravel and his campaign like vultures trying to get Gravel to serve as Barr's VP? The things you know when you are actually there in the trenches.

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## Original_Intent

Ventura does not do it for me.

He is an improvment over the status quo, but he is a cult of personality leader, not a leader by principle. I will admit I have not studied his record, but he strikes me as self-serving as welll.

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## nate895

> Ventura does not do it for me.
> 
> He is an improvment over the status quo, but he is a cult of personality leader, not a leader by principle. I will admit I have not studied his record, but he strikes me as self-serving as welll.


That is the only reason why he won the Governor's Mansion in Minnesota.  Same reason why Schwarzenegger won the 2003 recall in California.

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## rockandrollsouls

> That is the only reason why he won the Governor's Mansion in Minnesota.  Same reason why Schwarzenegger won the 2003 recall in California.


I'm glad some people here are still sane. It's amazing how popularity outweighs principle. Fight on.

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## rockandrollsouls

> Are you from MN?
> Where you involved with his campaign here in MN?
> 
> From your comments I am going to assume "NO" for both of those questions.
> 
> We elected Jesse to show the establishment we were sick of what they were doing and because we likes Jesse's ideas. The 18 to 25 age range made that happen.
> 
> Do you have any idea how much grief he received for making the light rail happen here? And now.. all you hear is crickets about that. You know why? Because I really do not think our metro area could of handled all these events and people without it. And you know what? No expansion of the light rail has taken place since he left, only remaining construction from his original plan that was funded. The $#@!ing establishment up here wants us to sit in traffic for an average of 2 hours on work days. I've lived here my whole life and I've been involved with a lot of commercial, industrial, and government construction, so I know what I am talking about.
> 
> ...


You're the first one I heard say that from MN and I have family there. Also, Clinton ran a surplus....doesn't mean he's a good guy to have in office. Keep in mind, Hitler was elected because people were sick of the establishment. If that's your only reasoning you need to take a step back and look at what you're saying.

And, it's not that he is a self serving politician. He might mean well with some of the things he does, but that doesn't mean they pan out in  the long run.

I will vote for a real candidate this election and in the future, and not because I want anyone who's anyone to be in the White House.

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## DAFTEK

*^^ What PlzPeopleWakeUp said!*


*We liked Jesse here in IA too*

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## westmich4paul

> Ventura does not do it for me.
> 
> He is an improvment over the status quo, but he is a cult of personality leader, not a leader by principle. I will admit I have not studied his record, but he strikes me as self-serving as welll.


This is a part about politics I just will probably carry to my grave not understanding. I have never in my forty years on this planet ever liked a candidate 100%. There are even issues that Ron has that I can say I do not agree with 100%. My point is is that last night when I watched Jessie deliver his speech I could see that the man thoroughly believes in alot of the same principles we do in the R3volution. I believe that he passionately cares about our rights and freedoms. He believes in our Constitution and the preservation of it. He is as sick of the Establishment as I am. I do not know if Jessie is the answer, but I will tell you this much, in the last twenty years I have had a share of Presidential candidates to pick from. From Clinton to Gore to Bush Sr, and Bush Jr to Dukakakis? to Regan and Carter. Not one of anyone o those Picks talked the way Jessie did last night about trying to make my freedoms their priority. So whether you think he is a cult of personality or not (which by the way all are they just are not as feather boa in your face about it) the truth is he is barring another possible Paul run is the best shot we gotat trying to turn things around in this country. I personally would love to see Ventura debate any of the current candidates I think it would make for a helluva family popcorn t.v. night.

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## Akus

> Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have  single candidate to rally around.
> 
> Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.  Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate.  He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul. 
> 
> Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please.  He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  
> 
> WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.


Wait a minute, I thought all this was not about a particular person winning the position of power to actually make things change. I thought this was all about "the movement", and "changing people's minds", whatever in the blue hell that meant.

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## s35wf

Originally Posted by Eric P  View Post
Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have single candidate to rally around.

Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run. Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate. He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul.

Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please. He's an anti-big government guy who cares.

WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW. That's what he's asked for.


DITTO!

Ventura 2012!

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## Imperial

I look at pragmatism too though. Even if all our liberty voters vote Ventura, we won't pull new converts well. Even if some come over, we will lose those who lean more to just obey the constitution than to shrink government as small as possible.

It isn't I don't like Ventura, but rather how he will be smeared by the MSM. Ron Paul was, and still is, my favorite politician ever. However, he also had unwarranted smears attached, which though wrong existed. I think it best if we tried to avoid that.

Of course, Ventura is like an independent celebrity, so I am not sure.

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## rockandrollsouls

> Wow.  Jesse compared to Hitler. Unbelievable.
> Clinton did NOT run a surplus, he raided the remaining social security funds to have that surplus.
> 
> But, at least you have some local experiences to have perceptional reasons to have formed that opinion, and it is not baseless.... in your perception. 
> 
> Jesse was voted in because he had the interest of "The People" in mind, as he stated over and over while campaigning. This is why the 'establishment' hated him because he would not sign budgets that were unbalanced and had money going to establishment cronies. Remember when they stalled the budget process until he had to close down all the state parks and stuff? You think he enjoyed that? He was fighting for you and I, and fighting against THEM. A lot of his policies would not fly on the federal level with me, and I think Jesse understands the difference in the roles between state and federal governments. I personally do not mind a few socialist policies at the state level. I am more than happy to pay taxes to my state to help fellow MN citizens who are in need which betters my community. I do have a problem with the federal government doing things like that, as it is not their role.
> 
> I recommend you get out more if you've never heard such things. I have the history of being in thousands of metro area businesses, talking to massive amounts of people within them, and I think I have a good idea of what the feeling on the street is and was. He'd win in a landslide for any office in MN and I'd bet the ranch on it.
> 
> ...


First and foremost, I don't think your personal opinion qualifies as "A good feeling he'd get elected." The people I talked to loved Ron's ideas, but you don't see him winning in a landslide now, do you?

 Look at the things Jesse's done as governor, I don't need to detail them. The internet is your friend; use it.

You might not mind it, but I DO mind socialist policies at the local level. You know why? Because if I live there, it affects ME! I don't want the federal government pressing socialist policies on me...why would I want the state or local government doing so? 

Just because you "hear" things and just because "you don't mind" socialist policies doesn't mean that's how it is and that doesn't mean other people agree. Want a fact? Look at his tax and spend policies, and based on that alone try and tell me he's close to being a Ron Paul republican. You simply can't. You might have been fine with what he did...you might have thought it helped and you might have supported it but many people with conservative values didn't like it, didn't support it, and didn't like Jesse dipping in their pockets. I never said he didn't mean well, but if you're looking at it from the standpoint of a conservative I don't think you'd agree. I don't, and I'm not flexible.

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## rockandrollsouls

> Well, regardless, I'm on his team... and so are many others. I care not to argue it. When I said landside, I meant in any MN election. In a national election I think he would win if it was not corrupt, but I would not think a landside.


Then don't go around calling yourself a conservative, because you're not. I take offense to that. It's just as bad as McCain calling himself a conservative and champion of freedom. Ventura did not operate on conservative policy. Don't act like he's carrying on the ideas Ron stand's for because he hasn't been. That's a fact.

I take exception to that because I know many people that aren't on his team, (in fact, most people here that know what we stand for).

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## rockandrollsouls

> I believe that the federal government should be conservative.
> I think the states and communities should have the social solutions to social problems.
> I was never a republican, nor did I ever call myself a 'conservative'.
> I am a constitutionalist with veins of an anarchist (Emma Goldman type~).
> Ventura believes in freedom and the constitution, they way I see them. He sees a lot of the problems in our country for what they are and I believe he would actually get some things fixed instead of compromising like every other snake politician.
> 
> You just apparently have severe negativity towards Ventura and are extremely collective in your ideals of 'conservatism', and I think it clouds your judgment.
> 
> Of course this Ventura thing will fracture this movement some, either guys like you will leave this movement, or guys like me that made this $#@! happen will leave and make new $#@! happen. Mad insane internet and street guerrilla tactics in 1998 and again in 2007 & 2008.... We used the same terracotta soldier technique. Motto was "$#@! the law, they don't follow it." Figure it out.
> ...


Well tax and spend isn't the way the Constitution presents "freedom." The way you see it is wrong. Sorry if you find it offensive, but it's true. Ventura does not have policy like a Constitutionalist...he has the policy of a democrat. 

Would you like me to go through this list and tell you everything wrong with it? http://www.ontheissues.org/Jesse_Ventura.htm

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## anaconda

> I'll type this slowly because I know some of you can't read very fast:


What a mean-spirited comment. Geez.

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## Zera

A truther won't win.  Stop being so god damn delusional, fool.

HE WON'T.

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## IHaveaDream

I enjoyed Ventura's speech, but I resented his condescending pledge to "the revolution". He basically said that if we do all of the heavy work over the next four years, he might consider allowing us to vote for him.

If Jesse Ventura wants my vote, he'll have to show me something, not the other way around.

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## anaconda

> I enjoyed Ventura's speech, but I resented his condescending pledge to "the revolution". He basically said that if we do all of the heavy work over the next four years, he might consider allowing us to vote for him.
> 
> If Jesse Ventura wants my vote, he'll have to show me something, not the other way around.
> Reply With Quote


Yes. Worthwhile observation. The same thing occurred to me in kind of a delayed reaction. However, it cannot be said that Ventura has not done a ton of hard work along the freedom trail. Busting his ass in the military, campaigning for public office, serving in public office, authoring books, hitting the talk show circuit, public speaking, etc. Perhaps as much or more than any RP supporter. So, in some sense he may have the credentials to call out another group of activists on their resolve. I don't think he's implying that he's gonna be some kind of couch potato while he kicks back to see if the Ron Paul people are going to follow through. Also, governor is generally considered to be a bigger gig than House of Representatives. So, he may feel justified when I heard him say in response to a talk show host who asked if he would consider being Ron Paul's running mate, to which he replied "maybe he will be mine," or words to that effect. I just think he has a big strong sense of identity and a real fighting spirit. Our group needs some leaders. Ron Paul will have to pass the torch at some point. Ventura should wise up with a little bit of image consulting. He would be even more effective in an Italian suit with a great haircut, while speaking the same message.

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## JohnMeridith

> Yes. Worthwhile observation. The same thing occurred to me in kind of a delayed reaction. However, it cannot be said that Ventura has not done a ton of hard work along the freedom trail. Busting his ass in the military, campaigning for public office, serving in public office, authoring books, hitting the talk show circuit, public speaking, etc. Perhaps as much or more than any RP supporter. So, in some sense he may have the credentials to call out another group of activists on their resolve. I don't think he's implying that he's gonna be some kind of couch potato while he kicks back to see if the Ron Paul people are going to follow through. Also, governor is generally considered to be a bigger gig than House of Representatives. So, he may feel justified when I heard him say in response to a talk show host who asked if he would consider being Ron Paul's running mate, to which he replied "maybe he will be mine," or words to that effect. I just think he has a big strong sense of identity and a real fighting spirit. Our group needs some leaders. Ron Paul will have to pass the torch at some point. Ventura should wise up with a little bit of image consulting. He would be even more effective in an Italian suit with a great haircut, while speaking the same message.


I guess some people think that him getting elected governor and the 4 years that ensued were like going to Disney World on a free ticket.  

Read the guy's book people.  If you don't want to buy it, borrow mine.  You will get a better understanding of why he doesn't want to put himself on the stage without decent support(We are spoiled by our hero Ron Paul).


edit: great haircut?  Bic anyone?

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## PlzPeopleWakeUp

nt

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## Shotdown1027

Many of our supporters, and our organization (C4L) is explicitly Republican,and Jesse Ventura is explicitly third-party. I dont see how our efforts over the next 4 years in the Republican party are going to hlep HIM. Encouraging someone like Gov. Gary Johnson or Rep. Barry Goldwater Jr. to run makes more sense to me.

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## josh24601

Yes, definitely Jesse the Body Ventura will give the movement legitimacy and accessibility. 

If this dude runs then at least we will finally be able to separate the kooks from the regular patriots. 

I grew up listening to the guy do commentary for professional wrestling, for crying out loud. 

Choose somebody with a semblance of being a normal person, or do you insist on remaining on the fringe forever? 

Are nutcases the only people who believe this stuff or will a regular, competent, articulate person ever run?

Give me a freakin break.

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## nate895

> Yes, definitely Jesse the Body Ventura will give the movement legitimacy and accessibility. 
> 
> If this dude runs then at least we will finally be able to separate the kooks from the regular patriots. 
> 
> I grew up listening to the guy do commentary for professional wrestling, for crying out loud. 
> 
> Choose somebody with a semblance of being a normal person, or do you insist on remaining on the fringe forever? 
> 
> Are nutcases the only people who believe this stuff or will a regular, competent, articulate person ever run?
> ...


You think Jesse Ventura will enter us into the mainstream. Dude, the man is for 9/11 truth.

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## Shotdown1027

Sarcasm man.

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## Nathan Hale

> Our movement has been dwindling in the wake of Ron Paul not getting the Republican nomination, and we've been splintering, and support waning somewhat, basically because we didn't have  single candidate to rally around.
> 
> Well, as a previous post said, Jesse Ventura just said at the Rally for the Republic that if we SHOW him we want him, he WILL run.  Gentlemen and ladies, we have our 2012 candidate.  He's very independent minded obviously with a lot of the views as Ron Paul. 
> 
> Don't get hung up on Issue A or Issue B please.  He's an anti-big government guy who cares.  
> 
> WE NEED TO GET BEHIND HIM, NOW.  That's what he's asked for.


GARY JOHNSON.  I've been saying it for years.  Gary Johnson, who also spoke at the convention, is our best hope in 2012.  He's a term-limited repeat Governor of NM who was widely popular and won both of his elections by double digit margins despite advocating one of the most libertarian of platforms by a major party candidate in history.

----------

