# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  It it worth it to get a Lightning Link?

## Intoxiklown

I want to limit this conversation to compatibility only. All other reasons are not relative to my question. Is getting a LL simply going to lead to even more purchases and machine work?

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## presence

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

legally that is a 922 section (o) machine gun link; 10 years $250k

that aside... I'm of the opinion that knowledge is power.   So what is better than "getting a LL" is to know how to make one when the time comes that it becomes necessary; because if you really need one... chances are you need many more. 


You can craft one from a sawzall saw blade with just a drill, dremel, and small flat file in an hour or two.    Installation is super fast.  
If you alter the design to visually something similar but completely non  functional you can practice the craft without incurring any legal  liability. 
Being able to machine blade/tool steel into something functional in your home shop is a good skill to have. 

There's no reason you can't manifest a functional LL in a 3 hour shop challenge. 
Do your research.  Be prepared to do your duty. 

_Or by all means pay uncle's tax stamp and get range queen LL with a serial._


http://www.bevfitchett.us/ar15-to-m1...lightning.html

Here's some specs for AR15 clones:

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## presence

great thread on DIAS vs LL

https://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.ht...&f=23&t=199903

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## presence

> Is getting a LL simply going to lead to even more purchases and machine work?


no.  the unit itself should be plug and play after its crafted and should move from gun to gun with ease.

Its not like DIAS which requires more machine work.  
The downside to LL though is once its in... its in and you're auto; you lose semi.  
But on the plus... you can swap it in and out mid combat in less than a minute with practice; some guys say 6 seconds... depends on your internal Rambo.

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## Intoxiklown

Yeah. I'm not looking into doing anything that would get me an all expense paid vacation....lol. It is simply the tax stamp to own one, correct? I know where one is for a LOT less than people pay (I was offered the friendship rate), but supposedly they only work on the old Colt bolt carriers, unless you want to do surgery on a newer style bolt carrier. But that can lead to timing issues?

I know it disables any type of fire but full, but I own enough ARs where a dedicated one would not hurt me in the least bit. But I'm also understanding it is a fast track to cracking a lower with today's builds.

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## oyarde

I doubt I would want the tax stamp for just that .

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## Intoxiklown

> I doubt I would want the tax stamp for just that .


Well, my train of thought is (and I'm still debating, mind you), if I can have a Fed legal full auto for under a grand, why not? And that includes the cost of the stamp and the link.

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## oyarde

> Well, my train of thought is (and I'm still debating, mind you), if I can have a Fed legal full auto for under a grand, why not? And that includes the cost of the stamp and the link.


I see your point , but if I am going to drop money with a K after it I would want a .30 Cal machinegun or a BAR.

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## Intoxiklown

> I see your point , but if I am going to drop money with a K after it I would want a .30 Cal machinegun or a BAR.


LMAO....hell yes!

The BAR.......the MAN machinegun

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## presence

> It is simply the tax stamp to own one, correct?


well, yes... $200 to uncle but you also generally have to deal with a "dealer", plus it takes a year to process your applications, and you probably want it held in "trust" rather than individually.    

https://www.redcircletactical.com/ma...ownership.html


The real tax on one of uncle's LL's is the fact that you can only get one stamped pre 1986.  So there is artificially low supply; I'd suspect a few hundred in each state.   A legally stamped LL is a novelty.

All this for a little piece of metal you can carve out in your shop in a few hours.

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## osan

> I want to limit this conversation to compatibility only. All other reasons are not relative to my question. Is getting a LL simply going to lead to even more purchases and machine work?


Why subject yourself to all the crap of begging permission?  They are easy to make and hide.

Or, if you don't feel that rebellious, try a Tac-Con trigger.  Non-NFA full-auto function.  They are not cheap at $400, but what is your privacy worth to you?  

See for yourself:

Tac-Con USA

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## osan

> I want to limit this conversation to compatibility only. All other reasons are not relative to my question. Is getting a LL simply going to lead to even more purchases and machine work?


I have no Class III in my name because I don't want anyone in my home.  That said, we have plenty of legal SBRs, machine-guns, suppressors, and so on.  

I will never advise anyone on such matters, but for me there are only two purposes for giggle switches: giggling and suppressive fire.  In the latter case, the law will likely be of no significance.  I am all for manufacturing whatever you feel you need, being mindful of the terrible consequences of being caught with the wrong instruments.

One can legally possess all M16 parts EXCEPT the autosear.  You can have an M16 hammer, BCG, safety lever, etc., in your AR15.  You cannot have the auto-sear.  But you can make one, or a DIAS, or a lightning link.  But if you do, you'd better keep them socked away so well that even you might forget where they are.

I, for one, intend on making a 24kt DIAS which I intend on wearing on a very thin chain around my neck.  Just to ensure I $#@! any attempt to $#@! me, it will be out of tolerance all around so that is cannot be made to work.  But I will wear it conspicuously and may even make a t-shirt that says something to the effect that "Yeah, it's a Drop-In Auto Sear.  You got a problem with that?"

Yes, I am that stupid and yes, I like rubbing the noses of stupid people in poo THAT much.

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## Intoxiklown

> I have no Class III in my name because I don't want anyone in my home.  That said, we have plenty of legal SBRs, machine-guns, suppressors, and so on.  
> 
> I will never advise anyone on such matters, but for me there are only two purposes for giggle switches: giggling and suppressive fire.  In the latter case, the law will likely be of no significance.  I am all for manufacturing whatever you feel you need, being mindful of the terrible consequences of being caught with the wrong instruments.
> 
> One can legally possess all M16 parts EXCEPT the autosear.  You can have an M16 hammer, BCG, safety lever, etc., in your AR15.  You cannot have the auto-sear.  But you can make one, or a DIAS, or a lightning link.  But if you do, you'd better keep them socked away so well that even you might forget where they are.
> 
> I, for one, intend on making a 24kt DIAS which I intend on wearing on a very thin chain around my neck.  Just to ensure I $#@! any attempt to $#@! me, it will be out of tolerance all around so that is cannot be made to work.  But I will wear it conspicuously and may even make a t-shirt that says something to the effect that "Yeah, it's a Drop-In Auto Sear.  You got a problem with that?"
> 
> Yes, I am that stupid and yes, I like rubbing the noses of stupid people in poo THAT much.


Like you, I will never do a Class III. Hell, I've avoided that line of thinking so much, I only recently found out you can get an SBR/S or suppressor with just a $200 tax stamp, and no inspections. Was mainly curious to compatability as the chance to get one arose, and having several ARs, liked the idea of taking one and making it a dedicated full auto just for the exclusive purpose of a suppressive fire weapon.

However, upon inspection, the LL in question was not "official", instead a home project. And honestly, with my machining exerience, one I could have done much better myself. I'm still glad he brought it up, which lead to me asking here. As it has lead a solid education that will benefit me should I ever find myself in need to manufacture one in a.....crisis situation.

=)

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## osan

> I have no Class III in my name because I don't want anyone in my home.  That said, we have plenty of legal SBRs, machine-guns, suppressors, and so on.  
> 
> I will never advise anyone on such matters, but for me there are only two purposes for giggle switches: giggling and suppressive fire.  In the latter case, the law will likely be of no significance.  I am all for manufacturing whatever you feel you need, being mindful of the terrible consequences of being caught with the wrong instruments.
> 
> One can legally possess all M16 parts EXCEPT the autosear.  You can have an M16 hammer, BCG, safety lever, etc., in your AR15.  You cannot have the auto-sear.  But you can make one, or a DIAS, or a lightning link.  But if you do, you'd better keep them socked away so well that even you might forget where they are.
> 
> I, for one, intend on making a 24kt DIAS which I intend on wearing on a very thin chain around my neck.  Just to ensure I $#@! any attempt to $#@! me, it will be out of tolerance all around so that is cannot be made to work.  But I will wear it conspicuously and may even make a t-shirt that says something to the effect that "Yeah, it's a Drop-In Auto Sear.  You got a problem with that?"
> 
> Yes, I am that stupid and yes, I like rubbing the noses of stupid people in poo THAT much.


_ETA AND ALERT!!!!_

Forgive me - You CANNOT have an M16 hammer!  If you have STL files or similar for one and you print it, you will be in violation of NFA.

I apologize for my error.  I just mentioned it offhand to my NFA expert and close friend and he corrected me.  You can have an M16 BCG, but the autosear and hammer are no-nos.

Please do not get yourselves into trouble.


OT-ish: Be VERY careful if you are making brakes.  There is a man in WA, IIRC, who is currently looking at a VERY long prison term for manufacturing a brake.  ATF measured the signature @ the muzzle and found it to be -*3*dB v. the bare barrel.  They have determined this to be a suppressor and are throwing the book at him!

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