# Lifestyles & Discussion > Science & Technology >  Topic Split: Windows, Mac or Linux

## Razmear

Seeing how this debate is taking over another thread, figured I'd toss up a poll and let y'all hash it out here. 

btw, running Ubuntu 10.10 on our PCs here. 

eb

edit: ya I know i misspelled linux, posting before coffee again. Should be *nix anyways.

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*Mod Note:*

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

This is a reminder to please keep this debate civil, as there have been some complaints.  Insulting members of this forum via derogatory language is against forum rules.

Thank you.

Debates are healthy; but please be respectful

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## PastaRocket848

I run windows, Mac, and linUx, all on my MacBook pro .

I went Mac 4-5 years ago and you couldn't pay me enough to go back.  I use Linux for managing co-located servers and always keep a USB flash install for IT rescues.

Windows will be banished from my life the day solidworks goes cross-platform.

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## Occam's Banana

Linux. Arch Linux, to be specific.

I used Windows until XP. I would periodically do clean reinstalls of Windows to get rid of all the unknown (& unknowable) cruft that builds up under it. I bought XP, and after a few of the aforementioned reinstalls, it forced me to call Bill Gates to get his permission to reinstall software for which I had paid _mucho dinero_.

That was it! I decided then & there that Billy-boy & his precious gorram software could both go to hell! I had only dabbled lightly (_very_ lightly) with Linux before that & really didn't know what I was doing. But I went "all-in" anyway & have never regretted it. I did the "Distro Hop" for a while - a dance most Linux users are familiar with - until I finally found Arch Linux. _Ahhhhhh ... perfection!_

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## dannno

bump

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## 1836

Mac, always and always will be. 

But lately I have been moving towards RIM in my mobile devices.

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## dannno

Oh ya.. i think mac hardware is way over priced for 95%+ of users. If you are dj'ing a show or making a movie, I can see where buying a mac can be justified. For the vast majority of computer users, a mac is just way too much money.

On the other thread I posted a $350 Compaq laptop that had similar basic hardware specs to a $1150 Mac laptop. Sure, there are a lot of bells and whistles on the mac, but they just aren't really necessary to the basic function of a computer, watching movies, internet, homework, etc..

You can always buy a PC and install MacOS or linux.

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## PastaRocket848

> Oh ya.. i think mac hardware is way over priced for 95%+ of users. If you are dj'ing a show or making a movie, I can see where buying a mac can be justified. For the vast majority of computer users, a mac is just way too much money.
> 
> On the other thread I posted a $350 Compaq laptop that had similar basic hardware specs to a $1150 Mac laptop. Sure, there are a lot of bells and whistles on the mac, but they just aren't really necessary to the basic function of a computer, watching movies, internet, homework, etc..
> 
> You can always buy a PC and install MacOS or linux.


True, it is a BIT more expensive ($600 for a desktop, $999 for a laptop), but you get what you pay for.  My office uses windows (unfortunately) and we can buy brand new computers that only get used a few times a day and don't even connect to the internet and STILL 6 month to a year later they're bogged down crap.  Software that used to run perfect is now laggy, blue screens, freezes, all on computers with no internet connection and maybe a total of 1hour/day of usage.

i've had my current macbook for about 6 months and it's fresh as the day it was new.  my old imac still runs snow leopard just as fast as the previous os (leopard) that it came with, just as fast as the day it was new.

and that's not even to begin talking about build quality.  apple is just in a whole 'nother league when it comes to fit and finish.  type on a compaq laptop, then a macbook, and see if you think the extra couple hundred bucks is well spent .  you'd be amazed what having a decently designed keyboard that doesnt flex under your fingers can do for you...

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## afwjam

My core 2 macbook pro is 3 years old, I wont be upgrading for at least another year or two. You get what you pay for.
I also own Apple stock, equivalent to holding gold, maybe better.

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## Standing Like A Rock

I just switched over to linux (Ubuntu 11.04 with GNOME 3.0) a few months ago.  There are really only two downsides.  I cannot watch netflix instant because it requires M$ Silverlight, and I cannot play PC games, although I wouldn't do that much anyways.

I have an HP Pavilion dv6 laptop with a intel i5 quad processor and 6 GB RAM.  All the hardware for the Macs and PCs are made in the same factories in southeast Asia, so basically you are just paying for the operating system and software that gets thrown into Macs. Personally, I do not need it and much prefer to have the better hardware for my money.

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## speciallyblend

your all sheep baaaaaa/ s , i use this http://www.ilient.com/Sysforums/post...425C7FE4#27895


Memory was something you lost with age 
An application was for employment 
A program was a TV show 
A cursor used profanity 

A keyboard was a piano 
A web was a spider's home 
A virus was the flu 
A CD was a bank account 

A hard drive was a long trip on the road 
A mouse pad was where a mouse lived 
And, F11 was simply an airplane 

And if you had a three-inch floppy... 
you just hoped nobody ever found out!

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## robmpreston

> True, it is a BIT more expensive ($600 for a desktop, $999 for a laptop), but you get what you pay for.  My office uses windows (unfortunately) and we can buy brand new computers that only get used a few times a day and don't even connect to the internet and STILL 6 month to a year later they're bogged down crap.  Software that used to run perfect is now laggy, blue screens, freezes, all on computers with no internet connection and maybe a total of 1hour/day of usage.
> 
> i've had my current macbook for about 6 months and it's fresh as the day it was new.  my old imac still runs snow leopard just as fast as the previous os (leopard) that it came with, just as fast as the day it was new.
> 
> and that's not even to begin talking about build quality.  apple is just in a whole 'nother league when it comes to fit and finish.  type on a compaq laptop, then a macbook, and see if you think the extra couple hundred bucks is well spent .  you'd be amazed what having a decently designed keyboard that doesnt flex under your fingers can do for you...


Same old arguments that have been destroyed time and time again.

You Apple zombies just don't get it.

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## dannno

I've noticed the younger generation turning more towards apple ever since the Ipod started becoming popular. It shows in the poll.

10 years ago, the younger generation was primarily on PCs.

Macs were for hardcore graphics and video, they were not very good personal computers. 

Today they are fine for personal computers, just way overpriced imo.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> Same old arguments that have been destroyed time and time again.
> 
> You Apple zombies just don't get it.


You just don't get the whole 90/10 split thing do you. We're not the Zombies! Sheeple are never the minority, thinkers are.

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## dannno

> I've noticed the younger generation turning more towards apple ever since the Ipod started becoming popular. It shows in the poll.
> 
> 10 years ago, the younger generation was primarily on PCs.
> 
> Macs were for hardcore graphics and video, they were not very good personal computers. 
> 
> Today they are fine for personal computers, just way overpriced imo.


Holy crap!!

All morning Mac has been far in the lead, with linux and PCs behind about equal.

Now PCs are ahead!!

What happened? Do people who have jobs come home and use their PCs after work?

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## 07041826

17" Macbook Pro running OS 10.5.8 (Leopard). Had a PC (HP, Windows 98) in the 90s and a G4 iMac from 2002 to 2009.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> Holy crap!!
> 
> All morning Mac has been far in the lead, with linux and PCs behind about equal.
> 
> Now PCs are ahead!!
> 
> What happened? Do people who have jobs come home and use their PCs after work?


Happened within about 15 min. Not buying it.

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## dannno

> Happened within about 15 min. *Not buying it.*


That's some conspiracy theory

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## mhad

my very first mac: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_3400c and i still own it, it still boots!  I am running a macbook pro, macbook, mac mini, apple tv, ipad, iphones.....  Anyone can say they are over priced and yes the interior hardware is mostly the same but the exterior it light years ahead of any windows machine.  Plus the iphone revolutionized the mobile world and no one can argue with that!

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> ...and no one can argue with that!


Oh God no, why did you have to say that?

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## madengr

Slackware server and a Mac laptop.  Most browsing is done on an iPad or iPhone.

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## dannno

> Anyone can say they are over priced and yes the interior hardware is mostly the same but the exterior it light years ahead of any windows machine.  Plus the iphone revolutionized the mobile world and no one can argue with that!


The point is for somebody on a budget, who only needs to do web browsing, homework and watch movies on a laptop, can buy the same processing power, same memory, same basic specs for under $400 where a Mac will cost upwards of $1,000 or more. They can install linux/Ubuntu and basically have the same interface as a Mac with as good or greater reliability and speed. I'm not just saying they are overpriced for personal computers, they _are_ overpriced for personal computers. 

Now if you're a DJ, I have yet to see a DJ at a club or a concert who didn't have a Mac laptop. I have to assume there's a good reason for that.

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## Standing Like A Rock

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dannno again.

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## torchbearer

windows 7 64-bit sp1 ultimate

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## PastaRocket848

> The point is for somebody on a budget, who only needs to do web browsing, homework and watch movies on a laptop, can buy the same processing power, same memory, same basic specs for under $400 where a Mac will cost upwards of $1,000 or more. They can install linux/Ubuntu and basically have the same interface as a Mac with as good or greater reliability and speed. I'm not just saying they are overpriced for personal computers, they _are_ overpriced for personal computers. 
> 
> Now if you're a DJ, I have yet to see a DJ at a club or a concert who didn't have a Mac laptop. I have to assume there's a good reason for that.


you get what you pay for.  It's $1000 for a laptop.  One that'll last more than 2 years.  Not such a bad deal...

Sure there are cheaper options, but they're just that: cheaper.  Not less expensive, they are of clearly inferior build quality.  Also Linux, as much as I love her, is no Lion.  The average housewife doesn't know what sudo does.

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## robmpreston

> You just don't get the whole 90/10 split thing do you. We're not the Zombies! Sheeple are never the minority, thinkers are.


Wrong, and I've already destroyed you in the other thread. Go back to sucking your thumb and let the adults play.

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## Kludge

> windows 7 64-bit sp1 ultimate


Same here. Super-easy to use (rather, I'm very familiar with it -- used since was 4 or so). It's pretty much just install-and-play, and if a problem crops up, I usually know exactly where to go. Contrast with linux OSes where I have to open up a web browser just about every time something goes wrong -- but again, that's mostly just a familiarity thing. Build a computer from scratch using Windows and you often don't need anything to run it as well as possible except to download graphics drivers. Ubuntu can do that for the most part, too, but it lacks compatibility with a lot of the software I want to use. Since there are over 5 computers running here, most for a very specific purpose with relatively frequent hardware failures due to heat & obsolete hard drives, a fast deployment time is wonderful.

Lately, I've been playing around with Linux Mint, but I'm thinking about putting Joli OS on the media laptop. From what I've read, it's pretty much Chromium OS built on Ubuntu, meaning it offers fast boot speeds, a fast, powerful OS with lots of software supporting it (however, it lacks support for such platforms as MS's Silverlight), and a strong emphasis on running Internet apps (though that's where the lack of supporting software platforms can really hurt it). Keeping important Windows software separated means I can browse around wherever I like with virtually no risk of crippling or disabling the Windows side where I can simply reinstall JoliOS were something to go terribly wrong.

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## iGGz

> you get what you pay for.  It's $1000 for a laptop.  One that'll last more than 2 years.  Not such a bad deal...
> 
> Sure there are cheaper options, but they're just that: cheaper.  Not less expensive, they are of clearly inferior build quality.  Also Linux, as much as I love her, is no Lion.  The average housewife doesn't know what sudo does.


2 years? You're kidding right? I've had my same non-Mac laptop for at least 5 years and it's just now starting to dog on me. If you know how to keep a computer clean, they should last much longer then 2 years. One of my favorite things is reformatting every so often.

I really like Windows 7 Ultimate too

Just realized you said "more than 2 years" but to me that should be a given with any laptop, no matter the brand.

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## Razmear

> Also Linux, as much as I love her, is no Lion.  The average housewife doesn't know what sudo does.


My wife uses her PC almost exclusively for Pogo.com and a bit of social networking. She doesn't need to know sudo and does just fine on Ubuntu, and as an added bonus I don't have to clean up virus anymore from her clicking things she shouldn't be clicking on, like I used to when she was still on Windows. 
I'd argue that Ubuntu is a better OS for the less tech savvy than Windows because it's safer and easier for the techo spouse to maintain. 
eb

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## specsaregood

//

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> Wrong, and I've already destroyed you in the other thread. Go back to sucking your thumb and let the adults play.


LMAO.... You destroyed me?? You have SUCH a wonderful imagination. Have you thought of writing children's fairy tales? Oh wait, YOU ALREADY DO!!!

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## speciallyblend

> The point is for somebody on a budget, who only needs to do web browsing, homework and watch movies on a laptop, can buy the same processing power, same memory, same basic specs for under $400 where a Mac will cost upwards of $1,000 or more. They can install linux/Ubuntu and basically have the same interface as a Mac with as good or greater reliability and speed. I'm not just saying they are overpriced for personal computers, they _are_ overpriced for personal computers. 
> 
> Now if you're a DJ, I have yet to see a DJ at a club or a concert who didn't have a Mac laptop. I have to assume there's a good reason for that.


not really i have serato live this is what your seeing most djs use but i use a pc, just they spent more! serato live operates basically the same on a pc or mac.. nothing but image and saying i have mac look at me hehe, propaganda and they bought hook line and sinker!!

mine is better then a mac anyway it has Ron paul 2008 sticker on it instead of some silly overpriced apple!

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## speciallyblend

> LMAO.... You destroyed me?? You have SUCH a wonderful imagination. Have you thought of writing children's fairy tales? Oh wait, YOU ALREADY DO!!!


you have an apple now go leave us commoners alone while you sit on top of your own hill!

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## OrigSEOH

Good freedom flick.

"Revolution OS"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjaC8Pq9-V0

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## Inkblots

I've got a dual boot Vista/Fedora 12 box here.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20

ROTFLMAO....  If I may but take the liberty... "GAME OVER"...




Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up?

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## dannno

> not really i have serato live this is what your seeing most djs use but i use a pc, just they spent more! serato live operates basically the same on a pc or mac.. nothing but image and saying i have mac look at me hehe, propaganda and they bought hook line and sinker!!
> 
> mine is better then a mac anyway it has Ron paul 2008 sticker on it instead of some silly overpriced apple!


Oh that's cool to know.

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## speciallyblend

> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20
> 
> ROTFLMAO....  If I may but take the liberty... "GAME OVER"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up?


proves nothing ,except both mac and pc users have to read instructions instead of cutting the computer on and using it!!

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## dannno

> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20
> 
> ROTFLMAO....  If I may but take the liberty... "GAME OVER"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up? Need more help setting up?


I'm pretty sure most people just click on their wifi logo in their system's tray and select McDonalds on PC as well, but giving those instructions guarantees that they reach the correct location as the wifi logo may appear different or be temporarily hidden.

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## speciallyblend

mod note it was rpv that started this sheep crap and hi-jacked the original prodigy thread but now he has his own love fest i gotta mac thread for himself ,so go love it rpv love it good.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> proves nothing ,except both mac and pc users have to read instructions instead of cutting the computer on and using it!!


Actually, the Mac will just connect to it. Unless a user has manually configured their Mac not to connect automatically.

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## dannno

> Actually, the Mac will just connect to it. Unless a user has manually configured their Mac not to connect automatically.


That sounds awesomely secure.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> That sounds awesomely secure.


Um, a Mac is not Windows. It is pure UNIX. Good luck trying to hack it over WiFi.

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## iHumanist

I use both Windows and Mac.

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## dannno

> Um, a Mac is not Windows. It is pure UNIX. Good luck trying to hack it over WiFi.


I'm willing to bet that some unsuspecting Mac users have shared folders without passwords on their laptop and occasionally take it on the go. If you're connecting up to a network you know about, you'll probably be fine. But if somebody is fishing for Macs that automatically connect to their network and happen to have shared folders, then they will get access. Most people don't share private stuff. Most people. Then there may be other issues as well.. the point is you should probably at least choose to connect to networks the first time so you aren't hooking up to random networks all the time. I know my iphone asks me the first time I hookup to a network, then after that connects automatically, which is fine.

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## speciallyblend

> Actually, the Mac will just connect to it. Unless a user has manually configured their Mac not to connect automatically.


yeah let me go waste 1000 and buy all new softwaRE OVER THAT!! nonsense no need to, i can connect automatically to

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## specsaregood

> Um, a Mac is not Windows. It is pure UNIX. Good luck trying to hack it over WiFi.


There is so much lose in that ^ statement that I am at a loss of where to begin.

Edit: begin down exploit lane:
http://www.exploit-db.com/platform/?p=osX

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## TheViper

I run Windows and Linux.   Sadly the poll does not allow multiple options so I've not voted.




> Um, a Mac is not Windows. It is pure UNIX. Good luck trying to hack it over WiFi.


You do know that macs are always the first thing to get cracked at the COMSEC?


As for the Mac vs PC debate, I build computers.  And a PC with a clean Windows install (not bloated crap like HP, Dell and others) will last just as long as a Mac, cost far less in the process and are more powerful $ for $.

Why are Macs popular with DJ's and movie developers?  Tradition.  Back in the Pentium 4 and Windows XP days, the Mac definitely had a leg up on applications that were highly parallel in processing.  Not only is that no longer the case but Windows 7 and high end Intel chips have well surpassed the performance of the Mac in those conditions now. 

Keep in mind that a Mac is just a PC with very selective and limiting hardware and a different OS.  Considering all the hardware components are actually consumer grade PC parts, the costs are not very consumer friendly.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> There is so much lose in that ^ statement that I am at a loss of where to begin.
> 
> Edit: begin down exploit lane:
> http://www.exploit-db.com/platform/?p=osX


Oh, let's take a little closer look at that shall we...

The Mac has 5 pages of exploits. Five. *Now I wonder how many pages of exploits Windows might have? 10? 20? Surely not 50?* 

Try 166 pages of exploits.
CASE IN POINT!

*Talk about LOSE alright!!!*

Thank you!

And with that, I rest my case. Goodnight.

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## afwjam

This is a classic argument that will never end. Dont worry, Apple is not hurting for the argument to change. I believe they are the second largest corporation in the world by market cap.(Profit margins are nice) I have a PC, the desktop I built.(Core i5, 8 gb ram, 460 GTX FTW edition) Windows 7 is pretty nice. My main computer is my Macbook Pro. I challenge you this PC users: 

Try using a Macbook for 1 month, then see if you think the mac is overpriced. Its the little things that count. I cant imagine a world without two finger scrolling. PC's are great, Macs are great, they are not comparable. If you like your Toyota, thats great! Other people will continue to drive there Mercedes what ever you think.

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## dannno

> This is a classic argument that will never end. Dont worry, Apple is not hurting for the argument to change. I believe they are the second largest corporation in the world by market cap.(Profit margins are nice) I have a PC, the desktop I built.(Core i5, 8 gb ram, 460 GTX FTW edition) Windows 7 is pretty nice. My main computer is my Macbook Pro. I challenge you this PC users: 
> 
> Try using a Macbook for 1 month, then see if you think the mac is overpriced. Its the little things that count. I cant imagine a world without two finger scrolling. PC's are great, Macs are great, they are not comparable. If you like your Toyota, thats great! Other people will continue to drive there Mercedes what ever you think.


http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/easily-...ndows-laptops/

Any other little things that are worth hundreds of dollars to you?

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## dannno

I think a better analogy is saying that, yes, Mac is like Mercedes. They don't have any cheap $#@!ing cars, all they have are expensive ones. PC's are like Toyota, Suburu and BMW, you can choose what class you want, but you probably will never quite reach the luxury and convenience found in a Mercedez unless you do some customizing, but you have the option of going more affordable, or higher performance for less money, or much higher performance for about the same amount of money, all with slightly less luxury and convenience.

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## TheViper

> Oh, let's take a little closer look at that shall we...
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> And with that, I rest my case. Goodnight.


Do please explain to my why Mac computers are cracked first at COMSEC every year.  

Also noted that exploits are a product of exposure just as much as they are a product of actual faults.   Given that MacOS is far less exposed than Windows, exploits will be far less in number.




> I cant imagine a world without two finger scrolling


 Funny, my Windows 7 based laptop has 2 finger scrolling.  Say, how do you like that fancy 2 button mouse?

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## afwjam

> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/easily-...ndows-laptops/
> 
> Any other little things that are worth hundreds of dollars to you?


What a joke, You obviously don't get it. 
I have had friends show up with pcs loaded with many different hacks for two finger scroll. Its not the same, trust me. Mac scrolls like butter! Within the small things there are even smaller things. Like acceleration, responsiveness, pinch to zoom, multi finger swipes, two finger rotations....

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## afwjam

> Funny, my Windows 7 based laptop has 2 finger scrolling.  Say, how do you like that fancy 2 button mouse?


As I responded before, its bastardized two finger scroll. It does not scroll like butter, with acceleration, and system wide responsiveness.
Macs dont have any buttons, they have a multitouch surface which can accept any number of commands through various gestures.

The thing is, most mac users have used a PC and prefer a mac. Most PC users have used a PC and are blind to anything else, except the iPhone they claim as an exception.

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## dannno

> What a joke, You obviously don't get it. 
> I have had friends show up with pcs loaded with many different hacks for* two finger scroll*. Its not the same,* trust me*. Mac *scrolls like butter*! *Within the small things there are even smaller things* . Like *acceleration, responsiveness, pinch to zoom, multi finger swipes, two finger rotations....*

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## dannno

> As I responded before, its bastardized two finger scroll. It does not scroll like butter, with acceleration, and system wide responsiveness.
> Macs dont have any buttons, they have a multitouch surface which can accept any number of commands through various gestures.
> 
> *The thing is, most mac users have used a PC and prefer a mac. Most PC users have used a PC and are blind to anything else, except the iPhone they claim as an exception.*


I used a Mac for a year in school learning graphic design, and more recently I had a Mac mini as the house media center plugged into the main tv for about 2 years. 

They work pretty well, and are stable. Ever since they switched to a Unix based OS and intel processing I think it has made out to be much better as a personal computer. 

I like that they aren't as vulnerable even if it is only because they are such a small percentage of the market. If linux was out of the picture, I would consider installing Snow leopard on a PC (hackintosh) over windows, or have a dual boot, if only to help keep my system cleaner.

I just think it's overpriced hardware, unless I had a bunch of extra money lying around I don't think I'd buy one. Linux is a much better solution, unless you want to pay hundreds of dollars for gestures and such.

----------


## Revolution9

> Wrong, and I've already destroyed you in the other thread. Go back to sucking your thumb and let the adults play.


You are hardly an adult. You sound just like the snot nosed, bad boyz gamer PC brats on the game engine forum who want to make an MMORPG/FPS. You desytroyed nothing except the concept of viewing your posts as though they are from an adult.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> That sounds awesomely secure.


It certainly is. You do not have to go under the hood and mess with $#@! for it to be secure either.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> yeah let me go waste 1000 and buy all new softwaRE OVER THAT!! nonsense no need to, i can connect automatically to


I would have to spend about 45K USD to replace the software on my macs and would be crazy to as what I have works flawlessly together. I still have files from my first mac in 1992. I have been forced to use PC's and dreaded it. Something always effed up or the blue screen of death stopped work dead in its tracks. This has never occurred on a mac. I kept a note above my station when I brought my own computer in to avoid their workstations. While the others around me cussed and raged about crashes I would just point at my sign every time the question "why?" was popped. "Because its a Mac" my sign said. I develop iOS games and apps, desktop and web games and apps, use a few dozen API's, about 4 IDE's, ZBrush, Cinema 4D, Unity Pro, Unity iPhone Pro, CS5 bundle, Shake, LogicPro, SILVIA(AI interactive speech), XCode, MonoDevelop, 3D-Coat, MMO serverware, Line6 Gearbox, Filter Forge, Substance Designer and a couple of dozen supporting apps and plugins. PC's cannot even handle much of the stuff I work on such as iOS games and apps, nothing comes close to Logic from my scoring and composition needs. Furthermore I had to run the SILVIA app on our one windows machine and after three months of teaching it about an entire game world involving thousands of entries, many unretrievable from human memory as they came during writing sessions on the fly the damned OS decided that the extension meant it was made by an internal OS routine and refused to write to or read the file ever again. 3 months and over 8500 in dev costs down the tubes. That is why I do not use windows.

Best Regards
Rev9

----------


## speciallyblend

i got a mac nanananananana, that is how mac users sound really!! bottom line is macs are overpriced, especially since they have the same hardware under the hood. all 3 have uses for sure but one is overpriced!!

----------


## speciallyblend

> I would have to spend about 45K USD to replace the software on my macs and would be crazy to as what I have works flawlessly together. I still have files from my first mac in 1992. I have been forced to use PC's and dreaded it. Something always effed up or the blue screen of death stopped work dead in its tracks. This has never occurred on a mac. I kept a note above my station when I brought my own computer in to avoid their workstations. While the others around me cussed and raged about crashes I would just point at my sign every time the question "why?" was popped. "Because its a Mac" my sign said. I develop iOS games and apps, desktop and web games and apps, use a few dozen API's, about 4 IDE's, ZBrush, Cinema 4D, Unity Pro, Unity iPhone Pro, CS5 bundle, Shake, LogicPro, SILVIA(AI interactive speech), XCode, MonoDevelop, 3D-Coat, MMO serverware, Line6 Gearbox, Filter Forge, Substance Designer and a couple of dozen supporting apps and plugins. PC's cannot even handle much of the stuff I work on such as iOS games and apps, nothing comes close to Logic from my scoring and composition needs. Furthermore I had to run the SILVIA app on our one windows machine and after three months of teaching it about an entire game world involving thousands of entries, many unretrievable from human memory as they came during writing sessions on the fly the damned OS decided that the extension meant it was made by an internal OS routine and refused to write to or read the file ever again. 3 months and over 8500 in dev costs down the tubes. That is why I do not use windows.
> 
> Best Regards
> Rev9


and the same could be said about my software, for me to buy a mac i would have to buy them all over again. all i am saying is mac is overpriced. a mac has the same hardware inside and all pc and macs can be upgraded. to each his own but the bottom line is macs are still overpriced for what they are same inside as in hardware unless you upgrade!!  my wife actually uses all 3. though we have not bothered to purchase our own mac.. her new job built her a notebook that kicks total butt!!

this whole crap started because rpv called someone a sheep in another thread. it seems some macs users have this i am better then thou moments and they like to make sure everyone knows!! excluding you and some sensible mac users!

my wifes company designs high-end computers for gaming and much more . i see them designing gaming computers using all 3 sometimes a mac but whatever a customer wants really!! i think that is the key.     All i know is the person that fixes macs and pcs tells me they are all the same inside minus the os systems of course!! That was all i was saying peace kenny

----------


## Revolution9

> and the same could be said about my software, for me to buy a mac i would have to buy them all over again. all i am saying is mac is overpriced. a mac has the same hardware inside and all pc and macs can be upgraded. to each his own but the bottom line is macs are still overpriced for what they are same inside as in hardware unless you upgrade!!  my wife actually uses all 3. though we have not bothered to purchase our own mac.. her new job built her a notebook that kicks total butt!!



I care not about price. I learned as a young lad trying to oil paint that brushes and medium were the real deal. The better the brush hair and the better the paint the easier it was to produce the type of brushstroke I needed. I have bought 2 of the 13 macs I have owned or own. I get them given to me by folks who recognise I can whip a computers ass to get it to produce any kind of art I want or code nearly anything possible. The main argument comes down to price. If I want a car I want a type I feel comfortable to drive in. I do not like economy cars. I prefer a 4WD. Mind you they cost more but the ride is worth it to me. Even better if someone else buys it for me.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> i got a mac nanananananana, that is how mac users sound really!! bottom line is macs are overpriced, especially since they have the same hardware under the hood. all 3 have uses for sure but one is overpriced!!


PC users "Nyah na na na nah..I paid less for my ricketty pile of $#@!e than Mac guys paid for their well put together kit".

Blah frakkin blah frakkin blah .. Windows just cost me 8500 bucks and didn't get $#@! for it except pissed offffff...again! Now..WTF was that about PC's being cheaper?? I could have bought two Mac towers for the cost of the windows OS error.

Rev9

----------


## robmpreston

> PC users "Nyah na na na nah..I paid less for my ricketty pile of $#@!e than Mac guys paid for their well put together kit".
> 
> Blah frakkin blah frakkin blah .. Windows just cost me 8500 bucks and didn't get $#@! for it except pissed offffff...again! Now..WTF was that about PC's being cheaper?? I could have bought two Mac towers for the cost of the windows OS error.
> 
> Rev9


Gee, it must be tough being stupid.

My desktop PC cost less than half of a comparable Mac and it has better specs, a better case with better build quality and I'll never have any Windows problems... as I'm not a retarded non-technical user like yourself. I can see why brain dead users like yourself would go Mac though.

----------


## speciallyblend

> PC users "Nyah na na na nah..I paid less for my ricketty pile of $#@!e than Mac guys paid for their well put together kit".
> 
> Blah frakkin blah frakkin blah .. Windows just cost me 8500 bucks and didn't get $#@! for it except pissed offffff...again! Now..WTF was that about PC's being cheaper?? I could have bought two Mac towers for the cost of the windows OS error.
> 
> Rev9


both are fine to use, i reckon many mac users to people bragging about a porsche . when a bonneville is just fine.  all 3 computers work and i will stick with my original statement . that mac and pcs are all the same inside ,except for the os system except when a mac breaks and they do break it costs more to fix!!  bottom line is mac users not all but many have a stick up their ass and love to pay more i guess. pcs are just fine to use. mac users are no better then the rest!!

i honestly do not care what computer you use ,but but when a snotty mac user(rpv) comes on a thread and hi-jacks it and calls people sheep for using a pc same inside! then i have to respond to that snotty user and it wasn't you!!  bottom line is rpv is the one that wants to shout he has a mac like that makes him better then others . when in fact i think it makes him a high end sheep!! a word he choose to use not me!!

----------


## torchbearer

> Um, a Mac is not Windows. It is pure UNIX. Good luck trying to hack it over WiFi.


sniffers catch htmp code too, along with your login.

----------


## speciallyblend

> Gee, it must be tough being stupid.
> 
> My desktop PC cost less than half of a comparable Mac and it has better specs, a better case with better build quality and I'll never have any Windows problems... as I'm not a retarded non-technical user like yourself. I can see why brain dead users like yourself would go Mac though.


mac users do not want to admit they got snookered for $$$$$$ though all upgrades pc or mac cost money$$$$$, my original statement is that PC and macs are the same inside except OS system. something mac users cannot grasp or comprehend so they call PC users sheep baaaaaa

NOT SURE WHAT REV 9 IS COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL ISAID IS A MAC AND PC IS THE SAME INSIDE except the os system . that is the bottom line period. i know folks that fix them and they say the samething!   minus the fact the macs cost more to fix

----------


## speciallyblend

> Gee, it must be tough being stupid.
> 
> My desktop PC cost less than half of a comparable Mac and it has better specs, a better case with better build quality and I'll never have any Windows problems... as I'm not a retarded non-technical user like yourself. I can see why brain dead users like yourself would go Mac though.


remember he has some kickass computer that us folks could never afford not sure why rev 9 chimed in ,since the bases of the argument is a pc or mac are the same inside ,unless you upgrade!!  they are the same inside minus the os system period. why mac users do not want to admit that is probably the same reason why they must feel better then others for spending $$$$$$   , rev great that you spent 8500 on a pc system pc, sorry you have had issues . i haven't . we are not talking about that. we are talking about the inside of a mac and pc which are the same unless you upgrade . i agree os systems are different but that is not what i have been saying!  many mac users could drown in a drizzle if they are not careful!! not talking about you rev 9 unless it applies.

mac users prove to me that mac brainwashing/propaganda is effective!!  hire mac media brainwashing to win Ron Paul 2012

----------


## PastaRocket848

arguing that mac's are a bad deal is like arguing that BMW's are a bad deal because you can buy a Kia for half the price.

A Kia is not a BMW and your average plastic dell/acer/compaq/whatever windows laptop is simply NOT a Mac.  It's not an apples to apples comparison (npi).

I consider the decision simple:  My Mac can run windows, perfectly.  A windows computer can't (effectively) run OS X.  Sure you can build a hackintosh (i own two), but that's not something the average user is going to undertake and if i had to to do again i wouldve just bought a real mac.  too many little issues and compatibility bugs and worrying about updates and all that...

macs are more expensive, sure, but the OS is perfection.  it's the perfect blend of windows simplicity and unix power.

and TextMate is only available on Mac.  Game. Set. Match.  At least for me.

----------


## Aden

Linux on my desktop and laptop.  I also have a 2nd hard drive for each loaded with Windows XP that I swap in to play online games a few times a year.  I also have a 6-year-old mac laptop.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

> *You just don't get the whole 90/10 split thing do you.* We're not the Zombies! Sheeple are never the minority, thinkers are.


The free market deciding?

----------


## speciallyblend

> arguing that mac's are a bad deal is like arguing that BMW's are a bad deal because you can buy a Kia for half the price.
> 
> A Kia is not a BMW and your average plastic dell/acer/compaq/whatever windows laptop is simply NOT a Mac.  It's not an apples to apples comparison (npi).
> 
> I consider the decision simple:  My Mac can run windows, perfectly.  A windows computer can't (effectively) run OS X.  Sure you can build a hackintosh (i own two), but that's not something the average user is going to undertake and if i had to to do again i wouldve just bought a real mac.  too many little issues and compatibility bugs and worrying about updates and all that...
> 
> macs are more expensive, sure, but the OS is perfection.  it's the perfect blend of windows simplicity and unix power.
> 
> and TextMate is only available on Mac.  Game. Set. Match.  At least for me.


all i am saying is a pc and mac are the same on the inside except for the os system unless you upgrade them,ooo the horror.  very easy to understand and folks cannot argue but they still are for some reason, aLL THIS CRAP STARTED WHEN RPV DECIDED TO CALL SOMEONE A SHEEP FOR HAVING A PC OOO WELL

IF IT DRIZZLES I HOPE some MAC USERS GO INSIDE SO THEY DO NOT DROWN!!

----------


## torchbearer

if mac had won out in the earlier years, we'd only have one manufacturer for each computer component with no competition to drive better products.
mac is a closed box system. it is easy to design an OS that runs only select hardware. it should be stable.
its harder to create an open OS that allows you to use any hardware in a plug-n-play manner. many problems windows has had was from bad third-party drivers and incompatibility of hardware when mixed with other hardware.

----------


## PastaRocket848

sure, on the inside, but who cares?  people don't buy hardware.  people buy software.  the average person doesn't care whether his computer has ati or nvidia graphics.  the average person just wants their wifi to work and their programs not to freeze.

it's all about build quality and software.  and apple pretty much has the industry whipped when it comes to both, and the market movement is reflecting that.  Apple sold more macbooks last year than several large windows pc manufacturers combined iirc.

----------


## Ninja Homer

Mac vs Windows is like Democrats vs Republicans. Linux is the Ron Paul of the field, and it will revolutionize computing. If you haven't tried a current version of Linux Mint or a similar flavor of Linux, you really should download it and give it a spin (it will run straight from CD). Linux has come a long way... automatic updating, as easy if not easier to use than Mac or Windows, runs faster and more stable, can run most Windows apps, etc.

I admit I've always been a PC guy, because that's what I've always had, since the first IBM PC AT in '84. I currently run Windows XP Pro Performance Edition (google it, it's pretty cool) on an older PC and I've been really happy with it. However, on my next computer, I'm going to run Linux Mint as my main OS, along with a dual-boot into Windows just for the applications I need to use that aren't yet compatible with Linux.

There's nothing wrong with Mac, and if you compare them to top of the line PC's, their prices really aren't that far off. One area where I think Mac has the edge is their laptops... I've never seen a PC laptop with the same build quality of a MacBook Pro. The thing is, most people I know that have Mac laptops just use them for email, facebook, music, video, and web browsing... stuff that any $300 netbook could do just as well, without the $2500 price tag.  And just for the record, I have a friend with a top of the line MacBook Pro with the latest Mac OS, Windows 7, and Linux all installed on it. Windows is slower on it, but Linux is faster, and that's a machine specifically built for Mac OS. Think about that one.

----------


## PastaRocket848

> Mac vs Windows is like Democrats vs Republicans. Linux is the Ron Paul of the field, and it will revolutionize computing. If you haven't tried a current version of Linux Mint or a similar flavor of Linux, you really should download it and give it a spin (it will run straight from CD). Linux has come a long way... automatic updating, as easy if not easier to use than Mac or Windows, runs faster and more stable, can run most Windows apps, etc.


I think every year since about 2000-2002 has been "the year of Linux", and yet it never happens.  it did for a minute when dell started selling Ubuntu boxes, but that's as close as it ever got.  The fact of the matter is that if people are going to give up the software they're accustomed to it's going to be for a Mac, not something they've probably never heard of.

That and most people are allergic to bash.  Sure it's not entirely necessary for basic computing tasks, but if you use Linux long enough, you're going to need to know the command line to at least some degree.  I think most people would rather just buy the Mac: all the benefits of Linux with better app compatibility and the best UI money can buy...

that said i'm a huge linux fan, i just realize that it isn't for the mainstream.... yet.

----------


## Krugerrand

> I think every year since about 2000-2002 has been "the year of Linux", and yet it never happens.  it did for a minute when dell started selling Ubuntu boxes, but that's as close as it ever got.  The fact of the matter is that if people are going to give up the software they're accustomed to it's going to be for a Mac, not something they've probably never heard of.
> 
> That and most people are allergic to bash.  Sure it's not entirely necessary for basic computing tasks, but if you use Linux long enough, you're going to need to know the command line to at least some degree.  I think most people would rather just buy the Mac: all the benefits of Linux with better app compatibility and the best UI money can buy...
> 
> that said i'm a huge linux fan, i just realize that it isn't for the mainstream.... yet.


At the risk of derailing a thread that was a derailment .... I installed Open Office.  Some things don't work as well as MS Office ... but the price was worth it.

----------


## amy31416

This "debate" is always funny to me. I've used both PC's & Macs.

Macs are better for audio-video applications. So if you use your computer for newsletters, video and more artistic and marketing-type applications, it is generally the better choice, especially if you want a very stable system that won't often surprise you with a *Blue Screen of Death*. Good for those who aren't into programming and/or building custom systems.

PC's are the only real choice for those who want flexibility, customized systems, programming capability or simply hardcore computing power. Nobody in their right mind would use a Mac if they were doing protein modeling or other calculation-intensive applications, but those applications generally use Linux. And it's my understanding that if you use a computer for a very specific application such as protein modeling and the like, you'd use Linux, because you want it to be highly programmable, and not mucked up with the crap that makes a PC usable for the average-nerdy person.

Different tools, different applications.

----------


## IPSecure

IMHO

AMIGA! That said, am a big fan of Win 7 Ultimate.

Quad core running 3 monitors (system supports 4...), 4 Virtual XP's, 5 network interfaces, Media Center (1080p) with commercial removal.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## amy31416

> Come now, I haven't seen a BSOD in longer than I've been on RPFs.  Besides, is the *Spinning Wheel of Death* any better?


I don't get the BSOD anymore either, but I still do occasionally get the whole-system freeze...or hacker taking over all mah $#@!. That only happened once, that I know of.

----------


## specsaregood

> but I still do occasionally get the whole-system freeze...or hacker taking over all mah $#@!.


Next time that happens, tell him to go change that baby's diaper instead.

----------


## dannno

lol

----------


## Revolution9

> Gee, it must be tough being stupid.
> 
> My desktop PC cost less than half of a comparable Mac and it has better specs, a better case with better build quality and I'll never have any Windows problems... as I'm not a retarded non-technical user like yourself. I can see why brain dead users like yourself would go Mac though.



Haha! Zombie boy. I can kick your ass around the block thirty times with my computer work, contracts, companies I worked for and sheer output any day of the week. I maintain you are a snot nosed, venom spewing brat with no manners, no real worth computer skills and a big fat $#@!ing mouth needing a sock stuffed in it before your foot invades your gullet with the force of a star football punter. All the spew and drooling you can muster will only reinforce this point to the bemused readers, so go ahead and continue demolishing yourself.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## dannno

Not sure how i missed this older post..




> you get what you pay for.  It's $1000 for a laptop.  One that'll last more than 2 years.  Not such a bad deal...


I have a laptop that is pushing 4.5 years that was about $400. I was using as my primary desktop computer, travel laptop and media center (had it plugged into a bigger monitor and played lots of movies and such). 

The battery finally broke down recently, I think I need a new one. Everything else is in great shape, and it runs really snappy. I have ubuntu installed on it as well.





> Sure there are cheaper options, but they're just that: cheaper.  Not less expensive, they are of clearly inferior build quality.  Also Linux, as much as I love her, is no Lion.  The average housewife doesn't know what sudo does.


The average housewife doesn't need to know what sudo does. A system can be setup for her, once everything is setup and working she won't have any problems and she can install all the software she wants through the software center. My dad was having problems with malware on a windows system I built for him, I was never around to fix it, and eventually I had to format his drive and I installed linux. He doesn't know the first thing about how to use windows, let-alone linux. But I set it up for him, made some desktop links and he's been using that system for years. It never crashes and never has any problems.

----------


## king_nothing_

All the Mac people in here need to give up the car brand analogies.  "Mac is a Mercedes, PC is a Kia, you get what you pay for!"   Uh, no.  As has been stated numerous times, they have the same hardware.  Does a Mercedes and a Kia have the same stuff under the hood?  No, they don't, so drop the illogical analogies.

----------


## dannno

> Haha! Zombie boy. I can kick your ass around the block thirty times with my computer work, contracts, companies I worked for and sheer output any day of the week. I maintain you are a snot nosed, venom spewing brat with no manners, no real worth computer skills and a big fat $#@!ing mouth needing a sock stuffed in it before your foot invades your gullet with the force of a star football punter. All the spew and drooling you can muster will only reinforce this point to the bemused readers, so go ahead and continue demolishing yourself.
> 
> HTH
> Rev9



Would you recommend a Mac to somebody on a tight budget who isn't into video, graphics or putting on shows? They just need a computer for documents, web browsing and movies. They can spend $400 and run windows or better yet Ubuntu (which has become extremely user friendly to install and setup), or they can spend $1000 on a mac with the same specs... or they can spend $600 on a laptop with better specs than the Mac, that runs faster (aka like a car that has a better engine, but might not have a blue tooth cell phone system or three different driver's seat positioning pre-sets)

----------


## dannno

> All the Mac people in here need to give up the car brand analogies.  "Mac is a Mercedes, PC is a Kia, you get what you pay for!"   Uh, no.  As has been stated numerous times, they have the same hardware.  Does a Mercedes and a Kia have the same stuff under the hood?  No, they don't, so drop the illogical analogies.


Ya, my car analogy is much better.. PC's are Kias, Toyotas, Suburu, BMW, Porsche and hell, Bentley.. Mac is Mercedes with no other choices. 




> I think a better analogy is saying that, yes, Mac is like Mercedes. They don't have any cheap $#@!ing cars, all they have are expensive ones. PC's are like Toyota, Suburu and BMW, you can choose what class you want, but you probably will never quite reach the luxury and convenience found in a Mercedez unless you do some customizing, but you have the option of going more affordable, or higher performance for less money, or much higher performance for about the same amount of money, all with slightly less luxury and convenience.

----------


## afwjam

> All the Mac people in here need to give up the car brand analogies.  "Mac is a Mercedes, PC is a Kia, you get what you pay for!"   Uh, no.  As has been stated numerous times, they have the same hardware.  Does a Mercedes and a Kia have the same stuff under the hood?  No, they don't, so drop the illogical analogies.



the same hardware argument is tired as well. Apple pays more for there hardware. Intel gives them the new chips first. Apple buys a majority of flash memory because they are phasing out harddrives and optical drives NOW. Apple worries about things like the keyboard, its illuminated and clickity, not a crappy mushy dell keyboard. The most tell tale sign that apple pays more for hardware besides the CNC unibody aluminum case is the screen. Look at any PC laptop from an angle, then look at the macbook. PC laptops use the cheapest LCD panels, meanwhile macs are using top of the line IPS displays. That is why your PC laptop screen can only be viewed straight on. For the next test, pick up your pc laptop by one corner, then do the same to the macbook, feel a difference? How about battery? The new macbooks last anywhere from 5-10 hours depending on the model, and will sleep for upwards of a month. Dell uses refurbished components in their new computers. There is a reason why Apple always scores excellent in consumer reports. Hell even PC world rates the macbook as better then any PC laptop. Its true that if your going to build a traditional desktop, you can save a lot of money building a PC. But you cant build a macbook and you cant build an iMac and of course Samsung and blackberry cant build an iPad either. People who buy Mac Pros are just that Pros, they need a top of the line Xeons and ECC server memory, the comparable Dell actually costs more. 
They say a picture is worth a million words, here is what my 3.5 year old macbook pro looks like:

Go ahead, lets see what your 3.5 year old Dell looks like! I bet I can guess... Like a $#@!ty piece of black plastic.

----------


## afwjam

This is what an illuminated keyboard looks like:

----------


## king_nothing_

I build my own PCs, thanks.

----------


## robmpreston

> Haha! Zombie boy. I can kick your ass around the block thirty times with my computer work, contracts, companies I worked for and sheer output any day of the week. I maintain you are a snot nosed, venom spewing brat with no manners, no real worth computer skills and a big fat $#@!ing mouth needing a sock stuffed in it before your foot invades your gullet with the force of a star football punter. All the spew and drooling you can muster will only reinforce this point to the bemused readers, so go ahead and continue demolishing yourself.
> 
> HTH
> Rev9


In other words you're an $#@! with nothing worthwhile to say or back up anything.

Got it. You lose again.

----------


## afwjam

> I build my own PCs, thanks.


Me Too!
I built my New HTPC in the fall. 
Core i5, GTX 460, 8 gb of ram, 8 TB of HD storage and 128 gb boot SSD, windows 7, Nexus silent fans all around and a zeroDBA silent power supply
Its pretty awesome.

----------


## robmpreston

> the same hardware argument is tired as well. Apple pays more for there hardware. Intel gives them the new chips first. .


Huh? I had an i5 laptop and an i7 desktop many months before you could purchase one from Apple. Fail again.

----------


## Kludge

... Why is this in Grassroots, anyway?

----------


## Revolution9

> Would you recommend a Mac to somebody on a tight budget who isn't into video, graphics or putting on shows? They just need a computer for documents, web browsing and movies. They can spend $400 and run windows or better yet Ubuntu (which has become extremely user friendly to install and setup), or they can spend $1000 on a mac with the same specs... or they can spend $600 on a laptop with better specs than the Mac, that runs faster (aka like a car that has a better engine, but might not have a blue tooth cell phone system or three different driver's seat positioning pre-sets)



They can go to craigslist and get a mac a year old and it will boot into windows, mac and linux. A Mac mini new is 600 bucks and used 200-300 and that is just fine. I would use a stack as a render farm. For an example on windows versus mac usage for an average non computer literate businessman with my current large media boards and sculpture installs. I did a flyaround of the structure in Cinema 4D with live commercials streaming on the screens, scored an orchestral piece in less than 30 minutes in Logic and instead of using the compositing computer I used iMovie which came on this iMac and had a clip ready pronto. Loaded it to a site and sent the link to my 62 year old agent in email who opened it on his 2002 dell laptop, who phoned me when he got the email on what to do. I told him to double click the link. He did and it popped up and played the first six seconds of a 36 second clip. I walked him through it five times and the computer would not play it. I tried walking him through downloading it and it was impossible as he could not find what I was referring to. I double checked from my computer and it played no problem. It was only a*7.4mb m4v. So I loaded the clip onto an iPad for him and drove 60 miles to relay it to him for a meeting he had with the Saudi billionaire a further 60 miles away. If he had a mac this would have presented him no problem. After the meeting the Prince wanted a copy for his iPad along with one of the other media board install contractors who had a macbook pro so I emailed them the clip. Now they want an extended clip about 12 times that length. It is rendering right now.

For someone who does not want the computer to get in their way I would suggest macs. For someone interested in networking and raw computing I would suggest Linux. For serious raw computing I would suggest using the GPU for operations where parallel computing gets the job done properly. For hardware tweakers and parts tinkerers, PC is the best bet. OS X does not run smoothly on a hackintosh. PC runs quicker on a Mac in most out of the box cases using Bootcamp in CPU vs CPU at same speed. Personally I have had one too many serious face palm moments with windows where my pay scale went from 50 bucks an hour to minimum wage due to unrecoverable work. Macs come with excellent software for audio and video right out of the box, can play DVD's and music seamlessly with 24 bit audio standard...for years. I have a seven hundred dollar PC here and the SOB has 3 USB ports. I use one for a mouse, one for a keyboard and one for a wireless USB. I have nothing else I can hook up. I have seven peripherals hooked to this mac and have some ports left. Two are bluetooth. On a final note, on the game forum, which has the gamut from total noob 12 year old gonna make the next WoW to the seasoned pro working at EA, I have noted that the folks with the hugely fast hardware specs below in their sig file are PC guys who play games alot and hang at a dev forum and bash mac users and the mac users are the ones making games. They seem to whine as well about having to use Xcode to create iOS apps and call Jobs a nazi for not catering to PC only devs to allow them to compile for the iOS. Funny stuff..macs suck but we want on the gravy train.

Best
Rev9

----------


## afwjam

> Huh? I had an i5 laptop and an i7 desktop many months before you could purchase one from Apple. Fail again.


You have the ultra low power i5?

----------


## Revolution9

> In other words you're an $#@! with nothing worthwhile to say or back up anything.
> 
> Got it. You lose again.


Typical half baked response replete with aggressive BS amounting to a big mouth exploding pungent gasses. Give us a link to your work maestro <crickets>

Rev9

----------


## Standing Like A Rock

From Cracked:


*Whether You're a Mac or a PC, You're Probably a Quanta*

Start any Mac vs. PC debate and sooner or later someone will bring up how Macs' "highest quality components" make the choice equivalent to "Porsche vs. Camry." Of course, Apple likes to play up this perception, invoking the picture of PCs made sloppily in sweatshops while Macs are put together in sparkling white labs by Apple store employees.



How Mac fans picture Apple factories.


Not only are the laptops you're arguing about both put together in Taiwan, but very likely even by the same company. Taiwan's Quanta Computer makes 33 percent of all laptops in the world, including Dells, HPs, Sonys, Toshibas and yes, Macs.





In fact, if you're reading this on a laptop, there's a 90 percent chance it was manufactured by one of seven giant companies you've never heard of, all located in Taiwan. None of the brands you know and love actually makes computers. Fortunately, Taiwan is a pretty laid back country where almost nothing ever goes wrong.



These are ordinary Taiwan parliamentary sessions. We're not kidding.


America can't even officially recognize Taiwan as a country or China will go ballistic, possibly literally. China claims to own Taiwan, and has only been persuaded not to make a move so far due to strategically timed visits by U.S. aircraft carriers and tricky diplomacy. Every time some Taiwan official gets drunk and says, "Come on, China, we've pretty obviously been independent for decades, let's stop pretending," everything gets rough and we have to send aircraft carriers again until China calms down.

Even if China's cagey enough not to actually attack Taiwan, most of these Taiwan laptop-makers have factories in China, so if these countries even stop speaking to each other for a bit, we'd be out of laptops, and all our big computer companies couldn't do a thing about it except twiddle their thumbs and look embarrassed.

----------


## robmpreston

> Typical half baked response replete with aggressive BS amounting to a big mouth exploding pungent gasses. Give us a link to your work maestro <crickets>
> 
> Rev9


 ... I was responding to a half baked response filled with absolutely nothing of substance. Still waiting on yours.

----------


## robmpreston

> You have the ultra low power i5?


Once again, Apple did not get the i5 or i7 until MONTHS after they were available. I purchased an i5 laptop in early January and they were not available in Apple laptops until April. So you can deflect any way you want but your point is wrong.

----------


## dannno

> For someone who does not want the computer to get in their way I would suggest macs. For someone interested in networking and raw computing I would suggest Linux.


Ubuntu is really an incredibly snappy, stable OS and is very easy to install. It's become amazingly user friendly. In fact, you can download an .iso, burn it to a CD and boot your computer straight into a working version of ubuntu right off the CD to see how well your system handles it before installing. Anybody who can do google searches and copy/paste command line prompts can fix any minor issues, and once it is setup there is no need for a super user to be present for a beginner to perform everyday computing. 

It even kinda looks like MacOS now.






> I have a seven hundred dollar PC here and the SOB has 3 USB ports. I use one for a mouse, one for a keyboard and one for a wireless USB. I have nothing else I can hook up. I have seven peripherals hooked to this mac and have some ports left.


That's not a very good excuse, I built a pretty blazing system about 6 months ago for $550 and there are at least 8 USB ports. My roommates all have Macs, but their speeds dwindle in comparison. I click on a webpage and sometimes it feels like I see the webpage load before I hear the click of the mouse (especially if the site is cached). I refuse to buy mainstream brand PCs unless it's a laptop. I only build computers or will recommend a place for people to have their system built for them. I would consider buying a Mac if I had a bunch of extra money. 


You also mentioned hackintoshes not running very fast, that wasn't my roommate's experience who installed it on a mini dell, it actually worked pretty good.

----------


## Standing Like A Rock

> Ubuntu is really an incredibly snappy, stable OS and is very easy to install. It's become amazingly user friendly. In fact, you can download an .iso, burn it to a CD and boot your computer straight into a working version of ubuntu right off the CD to see how well your system handles it before installing. Anybody who can do google searches and copy/paste command line prompts can fix any minor issues, and once it is setup there is no need for a super user to be present for a beginner to perform everyday computing. 
> 
> It even kinda looks like MacOS now.


I would recommend running/installing it off of a flash drive rather than a bootable CD, but either works I guess.

----------


## afwjam

> Once again, Apple did not get the i5 or i7 until MONTHS after they were available. I purchased an i5 laptop in early January and they were not available in Apple laptops until April. So you can deflect any way you want but your point is wrong.


lets see a picture of it.

----------


## dannno

> lets see a picture of it.


You better take a picture of yours as well, then we can all sit around and measure and see whose is bigger.

----------


## dannno

//

----------


## afwjam

> You better take a picture of yours as well, then we can all sit around and measure and see whose is bigger.


Actually I already did on page 9, and I would argue that it is significantly slimmer and lighter, yet the battery will last longer then yours. Kinda like the hot chick in bed as opposed the the fat girl.

----------


## robmpreston

> lets see a picture of it.


I'll take that as you conceding defeat. Thank you for playing.

----------


## afwjam

> I'll take that as you conceding defeat. Thank you for playing.


lol
You are missing the point of the whole argument.
I chose to buy my macbook and I am happy with it.
You have some PC laptop and will forever argue that the macbook is overpriced to justify its shortcomings.
Its not like I didn't know I could buy a dell for $800 less. Some people like tools from Walmart, I like Snap-on.

----------


## RonPaulVolunteer

> Once again, Apple did not get the i5 or i7 until MONTHS after they were available. I purchased an i5 laptop in early January and they were not available in Apple laptops until April. So you can deflect any way you want but your point is wrong.


Apple has often been given chips by Intel before Intel even announces them. The ULP i5 (SandyBridge) is shipping in current MacBook Airs, like the one I have beside me, yet I don't believe any other vendor is shipping a laptop with this chip. YOU are thinking of the LP, not the ULP version, which has indeed been shipping for a long time, but was once again introduced to the market first in the new MacBook Pros. I'm really not sure why you're arguing over this though, it's truly not that big of a deal that Apple usually gets Intel's latest chips first. It's a point you should just concede and move on. And yes, sometime, Apple waits a few months to update their current models to chips that have been shipping in PCs for months already, but if Apple wanted access to those chips first, Intel will do it. They have an incredibly tight relationship - and right now they are very miffed that Apple is not using their chips in the iPad, and they are working hard to make one Apple will buy. _NO_ other PC vendor has that kind of relationship with Intel. But again, why argue about this, it's just rather insignificant. So your comment "Apple did not get (insert chip here) from Intel until someone else got it first" is plain wrong. Whatever Apple wants from Intel, Apple get, no maybes about it. There are even Mac-specific instructions in all Intel chips that Windows does not even take advantage of, put their purely because Apple asked for it. Whatever Apple wants, Apple gets!

I must add though that my 11" MacBook Air which goes everywhere with me, just over 2lbs, and featuring the ULP SandBridge i5 is simply AMAZINGLY fast.

----------


## specsaregood

Wait, what is taking a picture good for?  to prove we actually own computers and aren't some grad student's A.I. project?

----------


## afwjam

Im pretty excited about that new thunderbolt port Intel and Apple came up with. Finally something better then firewire. How about that magsafe power connector?

----------


## robmpreston

> lol
> You are missing the point of the whole argument.
> I chose to buy my macbook and I am happy with it.
> You have some PC laptop and will forever argue that the macbook is overpriced to justify its shortcomings.
> Its not like I didn't know I could buy a dell for $800 less. Some people like tools from Walmart, I like Snap-on.


So in other words, once I disprove your point you will just keep deflecting with a bunch of BS that means nothing.

Got it.

----------


## robmpreston

> Apple has often been given chips by Intel before Intel even announces them. The ULP i5 (SandyBridge) is shipping in current MacBook Airs, like the one I have beside me, yet I don't believe any other vendor is shipping a laptop with this chip. YOU are thinking of the LP, not the ULP version, which has indeed been shipping for a long time, but was once again introduced to the market first in the new MacBook Pros. I'm really not sure why you're arguing over this though, it's truly not that big of a deal that Apple usually gets Intel's latest chips first. It's a point you should just concede and move on. And yes, sometime, Apple waits a few months to update their current models to chips that have been shipping in PCs for months already, but if Apple wanted access to those chips first, Intel will do it. They have an incredibly tight relationship - and right now they are very miffed that Apple is not using their chips in the iPad, and they are working hard to make one Apple will buy. _NO_ other PC vendor has that kind of relationship with Intel. But again, why argue about this, it's just rather insignificant. So your comment "Apple did not get (insert chip here) from Intel until someone else got it first" is plain wrong. Whatever Apple wants from Intel, Apple get, no maybes about it. There are even Mac-specific instructions in all Intel chips that Windows does not even take advantage of, put their purely because Apple asked for it. Whatever Apple wants, Apple gets!
> 
> I must add though that my 11" MacBook Air which goes everywhere with me, just over 2lbs, and featuring the ULP SandBridge i5 is simply AMAZINGLY fast.


Your rant was for nothing. I disproved what he was saying with a specific example. Hope that helps.

----------


## iGGz

lol this thread is awesome




> You are hardly an adult. You sound just like  the snot nosed, bad boyz gamer PC brats on the game engine forum who  want to make an MMORPG/FPS. You desytroyed nothing except the concept of  viewing your posts as though they are from an adult.
> 
> HTH
> Rev9


-----




> PC users "Nyah na na na nah..I paid less for my ricketty pile of $#@!e than Mac guys paid for their well put together kit".
> 
> Blah frakkin blah frakkin blah .. Windows just cost me 8500 bucks and didn't get $#@! for it except pissed offffff...again! Now..WTF was that about PC's being cheaper?? I could have bought two Mac towers for the cost of the windows OS error.
> 
> Rev9

----------


## iGGz

Potd




> i run windows and linux.   Sadly the poll does not allow multiple options so i've not voted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by RonPaulVolunteer
> 
> ...

----------


## KingRobbStark

RonPaulVolunteer: Hacking a Mac is as easy as taking a $#@! after a thanksgiving dinner.   

Mac is nothing but an overpriced chunk metal with minimal usage (and that's exactly how Apple wants it). Unlike a Mac, anyone can customize PC to his/her own liking from *scratch*  with half the price of a Mac. I hope all those Mac loving, unmotivated, habitual, uncreative creatures enjoy their prisons. Because that's all a Mac is, a prison with half eaten fruits.

----------


## specsaregood

> as easy as taking a $#@! after a thanksgiving dinner.


Not a fan of "The Sopranos" tv series are you.

----------


## Standing Like A Rock

Once again.  There is no difference between a Mac and PC for any interior or exterior hardware.  It is all made with the same materials by the same people in the same factories in Taiwan.  The only differences are the engineers in the US that design the things and the software.  In this competitive market, the engineers are basically a wash.  Maybe Mac engineers can package all of the hardware for .2 lbs less than PCs, but that is certainly not worth twice the price.  Personally, I do not like windows, but it is not worth twice the price for the Mac OS.  So I buy a PC for half the price, install Ubuntu for free, which is very similar to the Mac OS.  And dual boot Windows for when I need to run something in Windows.  This way, I get two OSs that combined are better than Mac for half the price of Mac.

----------


## RonPaulVolunteer

You know, I have an election to win, so I am going to stop posting here, but the fact that so many of you PC users are completely ok with telling outright lies in such a petty argument, really shows that we have a lot of people here with very questionable character. But like most that don't know anything about Ron Paul, when you lie about him, most don't know it's a lie because they are ignorant. I have been working with Macs and PCs for 25 years and I own a Data Recovery company that services more PCs than Macs. I deal with Macs and PCs all day long. Most of what you PC users have said when bashing the Mac is just outright lies, and if you are prepared to lie about such minor things, you're likely to lie about bigger things too. Or perhaps you are just like the neocons, not lying, just plain ignorant of reality. Have fun.

----------


## Standing Like A Rock

This thread should probably be closed or at least go to hot topics.

----------


## king_nothing_

> You know, I have an election to win, so I am going to stop posting here, but the fact that so many of you PC users are completely ok with telling outright lies in such a petty argument, really shows that we have a lot of people here with very questionable character. But like most that don't know anything about Ron Paul, when you lie about him, most don't know it's a lie because they are ignorant. I have been working with Macs and PCs for 25 years and I own a Data Recovery company that services more PCs than Macs. I deal with Macs and PCs all day long. Most of what you PC users have said when bashing the Mac is just outright lies, and if you are prepared to lie about such minor things, you're likely to lie about bigger things too. Or perhaps you are just like the neocons, not lying, just plain ignorant of reality. Have fun.


Chill out, please.  We're not exactly arguing about super-important stuff, here.

----------


## TheViper

> You know, I have an election to win, so I am going to stop posting here, but the fact that so many of you PC users are completely ok with telling outright lies in such a petty argument, really shows that we have a lot of people here with very questionable character. But like most that don't know anything about Ron Paul, when you lie about him, most don't know it's a lie because they are ignorant. I have been working with Macs and PCs for 25 years and I own a Data Recovery company that services more PCs than Macs. I deal with Macs and PCs all day long. Most of what you PC users have said when bashing the Mac is just outright lies, and if you are prepared to lie about such minor things, you're likely to lie about bigger things too. Or perhaps you are just like the neocons, not lying, just plain ignorant of reality. Have fun.


 And I'm still asking you to respond the fact the Macs are the first to get cracked COMSEC.  You being data recovery industry should be well aware of this.

As for hardware, it's the same stuff.  Does Apple obtain a few things prior to other vendors?  Maybe they do, but after it's available to the whole market, why does the price for the previously exclusive hardware remain so high?  On the flip side, there are far more hardware components available to the PC market that Apple does not utilize for their Macs.  

Stability and security issues are relics of the past.   Windows 7 is far more secure and stable than XP (and Vista) were by a long shot.  In fact, they have exceeded the security of Mac OS (don't know enough about Lion yet though, so I'll concede up to that point).

Another factor not really touched yet is the difference in laptops and desktops.  Apple does gain some superiority in the laptop space with regard to IPS panels and reduced weight.  But they come at the expense of optical disc drives and integrated batteries (go ahead and replace it and see how lighter you wallet also gets).  In the desktop space, it's not really a debate now as a PC with Win7 or Ubuntu (or a dual boot with both) easily match or exceed the software capabilities, security and stability enjoyed by Mac OS while also allowing for upgrades, better overall performance, equal longevity and lower price.

----------


## dannno

whoa..  I just typed that with this keyboard/touchpad mouse remote:



Just opened the box, plugged in the tiny usb receiver in the back of the computer, plugged in the remote to charge off another usb port, flipped the on switch, and started typing and mousing around instantly on my Ubuntu machine. It constantly amazes me how much stuff works with Ubuntu right out of the box.

----------


## afwjam

> Another factor not really touched yet is the difference in laptops and desktops.  Apple does gain some superiority in the laptop space with regard to IPS panels and reduced weight.  But they come at the expense of optical disc drives and integrated batteries (go ahead and replace it and see how lighter you wallet also gets).  In the desktop space, it's not really a debate now as a PC with Win7 or Ubuntu (or a dual boot with both) easily match or exceed the software capabilities, security and stability enjoyed by Mac OS while also allowing for upgrades, better overall performance, equal longevity and lower price.


So your admitting apple makes a superior laptop? They also make an i5 desktop that fits inside of the bezel of an IPS display. Then there is the mini/Apple tv which are awesome for the home theater crowd. Of course the Mac Pro which is server grade and for graphics/video/web design/audio pros. 

Do you like the iPhone? How about the iPod? 

iPad....

----------


## dannno

> So your admitting apple makes a superior laptop?


I think what he said was that apple's laptops are slightly less heavy because they don't have an optical drive and they have an integrated battery that is extremely expensive to replace.

----------


## afwjam

> I think what he said was that apple's laptops are slightly less heavy because they don't have an optical drive and they have an integrated battery that is extremely expensive to replace.


except for the fact that it lasts 3 times as many cycles as the average li-on, is higher capacity for the same space, and Apple will install it for free at the Apple store.

How long does you pc laptop battery last?

----------


## TheViper

> except for the fact that it lasts 3 times as many cycles as the average li-on, is higher capacity for the same space, and Apple will install it for free at the Apple store.
> 
> How long does you pc laptop battery last?


Never had to replace one.

2 laptops of 5 years use each plus a 3rd with 2 years use (which, by the way has a fantastic 2 finger buttery smooth scroll).

----------


## Revolution9

> RonPaulVolunteer: Hacking a Mac is as easy as taking a $#@! after a thanksgiving dinner.   
> 
> Mac is nothing but an overpriced chunk metal with minimal usage (and that's exactly how Apple wants it). Unlike a Mac, anyone can customize PC to his/her own liking from *scratch*  with half the price of a Mac. I hope all those Mac loving, unmotivated, habitual, uncreative creatures enjoy their prisons. Because that's all a Mac is, a prison with half eaten fruits.


Yer a gamer or accountant or just plain ignorant.
http://www.macresearch.org/
Furthermore there is not a field in science that does not have a data acquisition peripheral, app or driver.
Of course they are used at Weta, Pixar, ILM, many of the top SFX studios, Electronic Arts, Disney, Lego, LucasArts etc. and C4D and MoGraph with FinalCutPro rule the airwaves, movie titling and various commercial 3D grfx animation fields. The Macs hacked you are referring to were actually browser compromises and not true hacks. Since you seem to have an air that what you say is rock solid perhaps you could point out my error and show us the hacking exploit being written up somewhere. As for your ability to determine who is or is not creative...post a link and show us your work maestro..<crickets like the other loudmouth reprobate on this thread> Your WoW account doesn't qualify

Rev9

----------


## afwjam

> Never had to replace one.
> 
> 2 laptops of 5 years use each plus a 3rd with 2 years use (which, by the way has a fantastic 2 finger buttery smooth scroll).


bull$#@!. Only laptop battery that lasts 5 years is the new macbook batteries at 1000+ cycles, average laptop battery lasts 400 cycles.

----------


## specsaregood

> which, by the way has a fantastic 2 finger buttery smooth scroll).


I don't even know what that is, but it sounds kinda gay.  

This thread is now about smooth butt-scrolling with 2 fingers.

----------


## Revolution9

> And I'm still asking you to respond the fact the Macs are the first to get cracked COMSEC.  You being data recovery industry should be well aware of this.


Why should his business know about this when a google search turned up pages of something saying OSX with something saying COMSEC but NOTHING on any exploit against OS X. Some stuff about exploits against WEP but does not windows use the same protocol? Apple patched that AFAIK a while back. Ergo..there still ain't no way in unless a trojan is clicked on and a dialog box with a choice to dismiss or not is accepted. That is not hacking. That is user error allowing OS or app disruption.

Rev9

----------


## jware

Dell Studio XPS running Windows 7. It is a beast! I've been using it for over a year with no problems yet.

----------


## Revolution9

> Gee, it must be tough being stupid.
> <snip trolling>.


Zombie boy. Did you not comprehend the fact that a windows app was used for three months and people were paid to use it. One day they hit save and the windows OS decided that the file was no longer written by the windows app, it was generated by the OS and was deemed a system file, although it was an AI logic tree file with thousands of text entries. It was not retrievable by the software company who wrote the app and a google search turned up million of pages of similar complaints with the windows OS changing a file type internally and not allowing any access or tool to open and retrieve the data. It must be tough being as dense as you appear to be..especially on purpose.

Rev9

----------


## TheViper

> bull$#@!. Only laptop battery that lasts 5 years is the new macbook batteries at 1000+ cycles, average laptop battery lasts 400 cycles.


Learn proper battery usage and they'll last a long time.





> I don't even know what that is, but it sounds kinda gay.  
> 
> This thread is now about smooth butt-scrolling with 2 fingers.


One of the Mac owners is claiming that only Macs can have buttery smooth 2 finger scrolling on touch pads.




> Why should his business know about this when a google search turned up pages of something saying OSX with something saying COMSEC but NOTHING on any exploit against OS X. Some stuff about exploits against WEP but does not windows use the same protocol? Apple patched that AFAIK a while back. Ergo..there still ain't no way in unless a trojan is clicked on and a dialog box with a choice to dismiss or not is accepted. That is not hacking. That is user error allowing OS or app disruption.
> 
> Rev9


 Every year at ComSec, Mac OS is the first OS to fall.  Usually in about 10 minutes.   Anybody that works in security or related fields should know this.

----------


## specsaregood

> It was not retrievable by the software company who wrote the app and a google search turned up million of pages of similar complaints with the windows OS changing a file type internally and not allowing any access or tool to open and retrieve the data. It must be tough being as dense as you appear to be..especially on purpose.
> Rev9


Example of search params for this problem?  Thanks in advance.

----------


## Revolution9

> Example of search params for this problem?  Thanks in advance.


"windows file fatal error"

After 3 days of trying everything and reading tons of forum posts and tech articles at MSDN it was determined the OS rewrote the file and extension making it unable to be read by the app it was created by. When the file was clicked on it said it was a part of the Windows OS something or other dll and I was missing a .h file. We changed the development roadmap for that game and are awaiting an OS X release of the software.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

This is a reminder to please keep this debate civil, as there have been some complaints.  Insulting members of this forum via derogatory language is against forum rules.

Thank you.

Debates are healthy; but please be respectful

----------


## Revolution9

> Every year at ComSec, Mac OS is the first OS to fall.  Usually in about 10 minutes.   Anybody that works in security or related fields should know this.


A search failed to yield this piece of hearsay. I will ask you again to provide a link to a write-up on this exploit, when it was, who created the exploit and when/whether it was patched.

Rev9

----------


## specsaregood

> "windows file fatal error"
> 
> After 3 days of trying everything and reading tons of forum posts and tech articles at MSDN it was determined the OS rewrote the file and extension making it unable to be read by the app it was created by. When the file was clicked on it said it was a part of the Windows OS something or other dll and I was missing a .h file. We changed the development roadmap for that game and are awaiting an OS X release of the software.
> 
> HTH
> Rev9


Weird, I've never seen or heard of anything like that in 15+years of being a developer.  google doesn't seem to pull up anything obvious for that search, but whatever...

----------


## Revolution9

> Weird, I've never seen or heard of anything like that in 15+years of being a developer.  google doesn't seem to pull up anything obvious for that search, but whatever...


I just seem to have bad luck with them. Not user error. I had a company give me a dell in a box. I took it home and got the blue screen of death. I got my son over who admins a Windows network for a law office and he tried every trick he knew and got the same deal. I took it back with apologies that I will stick to my personal mac and they plugged it in and it came on. When working at the film house we all had crashes from the windows and software combos till I brought a Mac from home. A couple of guys got pissed when I used AppleScript to process folders full of images as they had to do it manually and they seemed to think it was cheating or making them look bad. Fact is it saved me time and carpal tunnel syndrome and I no longer had crashes. I now do arch-viz and project engineering, shop drawings waterjet machine templates and will be handling the commercial accounts as Creative Director for the full motion video billboards as well as, for Mind Release Labs the game company I own with a partner/angel investor, all the game engine asset creation, scripting and can compile to any platform (including iOS and Android) except Linux as there are just too many distributions with different install routines. Soon they will have native code sandboxing built in to browsers and then plugins for the web browser for Unity are no issue. My experience with the two platforms and my being an artist/mad scientist has led me to work only on the mac. I don't care what others use till it affects my bottom line. In the case of the people I am doing arch viz for I am insisting he get a Mac. He has had the iPad for three days now and loves it and can use it. He has had his dell laptop for 9 years and he still uses a web interface for email and doesn't know how to save attachments or what app to use to view them if they do not open automatically.

Best Regards
Rev9

----------


## TheViper

> A search failed to yield this piece of hearsay. I will ask you again to provide a link to a write-up on this exploit, when it was, who created the exploit and when/whether it was patched.
> 
> Rev9


Google it.  CanSecWest, pwn2Own, Black Hat Briefings, expert opinions....even a simple Youtube video to crack WEP on Mac.  It's all there.

http://www.google.com/search?source=...l1367l4.6.1l11


Mac OS's biggest security feature is obscurity.

----------


## afwjam

How many of you guys arguing for PC's superiority have owned a modern mac?

----------


## specsaregood

> How many of you guys arguing for PC's superiority have owned a modern mac?


define "modern mac".  is that just osx?  I had a osx powerbook for awhile, ended up giving it away as it didn't do what I needed.
Course I also had rhapsody on a pc way back in 97? bought a fair amount of their stock after that because I knew they were in for a big comeback, made a nice profit.

----------


## TheViper

> How many of you guys arguing for PC's superiority have owned a modern mac?


 I do not own one but have daily access to one.


Conversely, how many of you Mac owners own a modern Win 7 PC?

----------


## iGGz

> You know, I have an election to win, so I am going to stop posting here, but the fact that so many of you PC users are completely ok with telling outright lies in such a petty argument, really shows that we have a lot of people here with very questionable character. But like most that don't know anything about Ron Paul, when you lie about him, most don't know it's a lie because they are ignorant. I have been working with Macs and PCs for 25 years and I own a Data Recovery company that services more PCs than Macs. I deal with Macs and PCs all day long. Most of what you PC users have said when bashing the Mac is just outright lies, and if you are prepared to lie about such minor things, you're likely to lie about bigger things too. Or perhaps you are just like the neocons, not lying, just plain ignorant of reality. Have fun.


Woahhhhh, we are talking about operating systems here, right? That's a pretty obnoxious post...




> You  Windows users really need to take a step back and realize your true  nature. Just look at the way you attack... You have SO MUCH passion for  Microsoft that you get personal about a damn computer and attack people  for choosing a competing product. Is it because you've been ripped off  all your lives? Stockholm Syndrome much.

----------


## afwjam

> I do not own one but have daily access to one.
> 
> 
> Conversely, how many of you Mac owners own a modern Win 7 PC?


I have built many and own one.

----------


## afwjam

> define "modern mac".  is that just osx?  I had a osx powerbook for awhile, ended up giving it away as it didn't do what I needed.
> Course I also had rhapsody on a pc way back in 97? bought a fair amount of their stock after that because I knew they were in for a big comeback, made a nice profit.


I would consider an intel mac to be modern.

----------


## specsaregood

> I would consider an intel mac to be modern.


Ah, no i haven't purchased one since they were powerpc.  But I have access to them and have used them.  They just dont work for me.  I'm a "use whatever makes me money" kinda guy.  My business customers use windows.  In all, I don't consider there to be much difference between the platforms.

----------


## afwjam

> Ah, no i haven't purchased one since they were powerpc.  But I have access to them and have used them.  They just dont work for me.  I'm a "use whatever makes me money" kinda guy.  My business customers use windows.  In all, I don't consider there to be much difference between the platforms.


You are correct, windows 7 has really closed the gap. use whatever you like, I bought what I wanted. My macbook is a superior laptop no matter if it was running windows 7 or Mac os x.

----------


## Revolution9

> I do not own one but have daily access to one.
> 
> 
> Conversely, how many of you Mac owners own a modern Win 7 PC?


I do.

Rev9

----------


## TheViper

Apple.com - 17" laptops start at $2499.
Newegg.com - 17" Windows laptop with better specs for $1,369.  

That's almost half the price.  How does one justify the difference when the operational aspects are largely similar and even superior for many components on the Windows side?  

Also found out that the Mac laptops do not use IPS panels.  They just had good viewing angles compared to other laptops 3 years ago.  Now, they all use the same backlit LED TN panels.

EDIT:
Rev9, I'd still like your input regarding the security issues I noted.

----------


## dannno

> Apple.com - 17" laptops start at $2499.
> Newegg.com - 17" Windows laptop with better specs for $1,369.  
> 
> That's almost half the price.  How does one justify the difference when the operational aspects are largely similar and even superior for many components on the Windows side?  
> 
> Also found out that the Mac laptops do not use IPS panels.  They just had good viewing angles compared to other laptops 3 years ago.  Now, they all use the same backlit LED TN panels.
> 
> EDIT:
> Rev9, I'd still like your input regarding the security issues I noted.


Gotta spend $1,200 for the buttery smooth 2 finger scrolling and the extra expensive battery... oh and lack of optical drive, really?  how do you play dvd's and blue rays

----------


## afwjam

> Gotta spend $1,200 for the buttery smooth 2 finger scrolling and the extra expensive battery... oh and lack of optical drive, really?  how do you play dvd's and blue rays


all of the macbook pros currently come with an optical drive. Those wont be phased out till later this year.

----------


## dannno

> all of the macbook pros currently come with an optical drive. Those wont be phased out till later this year.


 how will you play dvd's and blue rays 

Gotta go external with the whole power supply and everything? 

What about watching movies on the go?

----------


## Kludge

> whoa..  I just typed that with this keyboard/touchpad mouse remote:
> 
> Just opened the box, plugged in the tiny usb receiver in the back of the computer, plugged in the remote to charge off another usb port, flipped the on switch, and started typing and mousing around instantly on my Ubuntu machine. It constantly amazes me how much stuff works with Ubuntu right out of the box.


I've had similar experiences. I couldn't get a USB WiFi dongle to work straight out of the box using Windows , the dongle didn't come with drivers, and I didn't have another PC to get the drivers from the Internet. I did, however, have a LiveUSB set up with Ubuntu on it, and it had proper drivers for the WiFi dongle. Saved my ass a lot of time.

Note on the battery topic with the claim Windows batteries are inferior... That's a load of rubbish. Li-Ion batteries all have roughly the same cycle life. Too many laptop users are lazy and leave their laptop plugged in most of the time. Li-Ion batteries (whether in Apple products or some Windows-only manufacturer) permanently lose up to 20% of their capacity each year when kept charged and at room temperature. Discharge the battery and take it out of the laptop if it's primarily being used with an AC connection.

----------


## afwjam

> how will you play dvd's and blue rays 
> 
> Gotta go external with the whole power supply and everything? 
> 
> What about watching movies on the go?


I will download it. I have not put a disc in my optical drive sense I upgraded to snow leopard, lucky for me, lion is a download.

----------


## Revolution9

> EDIT:
> Rev9, I'd still like your input regarding the security issues I noted.



Then give me a link so I can analyze what it says.

EDIT: Just did a search for "OS X exploits" at reghardware and got "Sorry, no review results". I figure if it ain't on reghardware radar it is of no concern to IT security folks.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

"Apple Flash buying clout will give it the ultrabook edge
MacBook Airs set to be CHEAPER than rival kit"

"But with their SSDs and Sandy Bridge chips - added earlier this month - the Apples will be among the priciest of the crop?

Not necessarily. For a start, even Asus is saying it won't be able to charge under $1000 if it goes for Core i5 and i7 CPUs as Apple has done, the Taipei Times reports.

With higher-end CPUs and big SSDs, prices could hit $2000, the company added."

more at link...http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/2...ltrabook_edge/

I like how this popped up today in regards to the claim by PC defenders on this thread that Apples kit always costs more. Apparently not.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> I've had similar experiences. I couldn't get a USB WiFi dongle to work straight out of the box using Windows , the dongle didn't come with drivers, and I didn't have another PC to get the drivers from the Internet. I did, however, have a LiveUSB set up with Ubuntu on it, and it had proper drivers for the WiFi dongle. Saved my ass a lot of time.


One of things sold me on Macs back in the 90's was the plug and play abilities. Every peripheral I ever bought for it plugged right in, once in awhile I had to install a driver from a CD, but they all worked flawlessly, whilst my Windows friends were struggling with sound card drivers, scanners and printers showing up. When at the law office the entire Windows network went down and I was still able to retrieve email when nobody else could even get anywhere beyond their own terminal. The entire office of 14 lawyers and about 12 support employees sat on their butts for 3 days and I continued dealing with commodity clients around the world and surfing the net.

Best Regards
Rev9

----------


## robmpreston

Reading this thread, Apple zombies are a lot like people who claimed the superiority of digital Monster cables. Clueless but eat up whatever the company tells them and pass it off as the truth... and then claim the opposition are the liars.

----------


## Revolution9

> <snip trollng>


Yeah. Yer smarter than reghardware, faster than a speeding bulldog and mightier than tumbling locoweed too.

Rev9

----------


## speciallyblend

bottom line , mac and pcs are the same inside minus an os system or upgrades and they do cost more!! We are all SHEEP with pc's according to rpv!!!  

so enjoy, this thread is as old as overpriced macs!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82kESUXV4jI

----------


## libertarian4321

I voted for Windows, since that's what most of my computers run, but I've got one old Dell running Linux.

----------


## libertarian4321

> My core 2 macbook pro is 3 years old, I wont be upgrading for at least another year or two. You get what you pay for.
> I also own Apple stock, equivalent to holding gold, maybe better.


So your impartial view, as an Apple shareholder, is that Apple is worth the extra price?

No conflict of interest there.

Thanks for the impartial advice.

LOL.

----------


## Revolution9

Professional grade OS X Lion cost 29.00USD
Professional grade Windows 7 cost 264.99USD at newegg

Fact. Windows OS costs 9.13 times what the Apple OS costs.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> So your impartial view, as an Apple shareholder, is that Apple is worth the extra price?
> 
> No conflict of interest there.
> 
> Thanks for the impartial advice.
> 
> LOL.


Jeesh... another one enters with a bogus stance we are apparently presumed to take seriously. Amazing backflip with a reverse 4 and a half twist you did with that data.

Rev9

----------


## libertarian4321

> Happened within about 15 min. Not buying it.


Given that Windows is, by far, the dominant operating system in the USA and world wide, with roughly 88% of the market, why would you be shocked that more people voted for Windows?

My guess is that all the artistic types (Apple users) voted early, then the people with jobs came home and voted for Windows.

----------


## libertarian4321

> mine is better then a mac anyway it has Ron paul 2008 sticker on it instead of some silly overpriced apple!


Same here.  My notebooks no longer say "Dell", they say "Ron Paul 2008!"

I think I need to upgrade my stickers, though.

----------


## libertarian4321

> Jeesh... another one enters with a bogus stance we are apparently presumed to take seriously. Amazing backflip with a reverse 4 and a half twist you did with that data.
> 
> Rev9


?????

Back off the caffeine and try to write a coherent response.

Thanks.

----------


## specsaregood

> Professional grade OS X Lion cost 29.00USD
> Professional grade Windows 7 cost 264.99USD at newegg
> 
> Fact. Windows OS costs 9.13 times what the Apple OS costs.
> 
> Rev9


Not quite that much,  that is the non-upgrade price for win7 professional, yet Lion only offers an upgrade option IIRC, so you have to add in the price of the previous version of osx.  or use the upgrade price of win7 which is around 170.   Or much less oem or hell I get bundles of them with my msdn subscription.


Edit: also
Since 2001 there have been 3 different pay-for versions of windows:  XP, Vista, 7
Since 2001 there have been: 8 different versions of osx.  How many of those did you have to pay to upgrade between?

----------


## libertarian4321

> How many of you guys arguing for PC's superiority have owned a modern mac?


I have.  One of these (original Mac, second computer I owned - the first was a Commodore 64)):



It worked fine, for it's time, but since around '89, I've been using PCs exclusively.  

They do what I need them to do just fine (email, internet, office applications, gaming), for less than the cost of a Mac.  Frankly, PC's are better for some things than a Mac (e.g. gaming).

I'm not an artsy person, so I don't use the artsy/graphics/video/whatever stuff the Mac's are supposed to be better at.

So why pay more for a Mac?  I'm a frugal person, so I won't pay more just for the Apple "cool" factor.

----------


## libertarian4321

> Go ahead, lets see what your 3.5 year old Dell looks like! I bet I can guess... Like a $#@!ty piece of black plastic.


And that, my friends, is a big part of the difference between someone like me and someone who buys a computer to do a job and someone else who buys a computer, at least in part, to try and impress people.

My 2006 vintage Dell notebook is plastic.

So freaking what?  

It's been running fine for 5+ years, it's still running fine.  

It does what I need it to do, and it cost a FRACTION of what an imac/ibook/macbook/iwhatever  would have cost.

I do not feel the need to try and impress people with how my computer looks, or how my car looks.

That's why I drive a Chevy truck and use a PC- they get the job done for a great price.  I don't need the ego boost from a "cool" factor that an imac or a Mercedes might provide.

----------


## TruckinMike

After reading all the hub-bub on this thread I realized that there is a good trend here.  RPforum users  are an independent minded bunch, not only leading the way in political thought, but in personal computing as well. 

almost *47%* of the forum is *NOT* using windows. I remember a couple of years ago we had this discussion and the results were no where near this good. I can't recall a poll but it seems as if MAC/Linux users numbers have shot through the roof.

As for Me:

*Laptop:* XP* 

*home:* Debian with LXDE (light weight desktop environment)



TMike


* I was using a suse/XP dual boot system on my laptop, but when I had to reload XP the last time around I left suse off because I didn't use it on the road - My company that I'm leased to loves Bill gates. They have software that only runs on windows - I have no choice but to use -- I thought about running an emulator but got lazy and only loaded XP.  oh the shame...

----------


## dannno

> Professional grade OS X Lion cost 29.00USD
> Professional grade Windows 7 cost 264.99USD at newegg
> 
> Fact. Windows OS costs 9.13 times what the Apple OS costs.
> 
> Rev9


Microsoft doesn't require that you buy overpriced hardware.

----------


## dannno

> I remember a couple of years ago we had this discussion and the results were no where near this good.


The kids in college now grew up with Ipods in high school. All of my roommates in college many years ago used PCs, even the creative/artistic/hippie ones.. If you had a Mac, you were out of the loop with most things computer related. Macs were solely for publishing. The only guy I recall specifically being Mac oriented was one of the guys I knew in film studies, for obvious reasons. Now I have a bunch of friends/roommates who are in the 22-24 range and *all* of them have Macs. All of their friends have Macs. However, they also all ask me for technical help when they need it.

----------


## specsaregood

> The kids in college now grew up with Ipods in high school. All of my roommates in college many years ago used PCs, even the creative/artistic/hippie ones.. the only guy I recall specifically being Mac oriented was one of the guys I knew in film studies, for obvious reasons. Now I have a bunch of friends/roommates who are in the 22-24 range and *all* of them have Macs. However, they also all ask me for technical help when they need it.


I there was an article recently about how somebody had an iphone app sold that recorded the pin # for iphones.  
Other than pins selected because of their placement on the keypad, 1998 rounded out the top 10 list.  why 1998?  Could it be because the biggest group  of iphone users are 13years old?  



edit: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/...odes-revealed/



> Beyond the passcodes representing repetitive and patterned entries, Amitay found a higher-than-expected frequency of passcodes in the 1980-2000 range, suggesting that users are prone to using their birth years or years of other significant events in their lives as their passcodes.

----------


## TheViper

> Then give me a link so I can analyze what it says.
> 
> EDIT: Just did a search for "OS X exploits" at reghardware and got "Sorry, no review results". I figure if it ain't on reghardware radar it is of no concern to IT security folks.
> 
> Rev9


 I gave you a link already.
http://www.google.com/search?source=...l1367l4.6.1l11

Want something regarding Lion?
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pas...l#xtor=RSS-181

Password extraction, regardless of length of strength, even when the system is locked or in sleep mode.  Might be one of the most painful zero-day exploits I've seen.

----------


## afwjam

What I am getting from this thread is a couple things.
Macs are better designed, and the hardware is the same as the PC's (except for almost everything that you touch, use, or look at.) but most of these guys either cant or do not want to pay for it.

Got it. Free Market, I will keep buying macbooks.
Enjoy your PC.

Name one way your PC laptop is superior to my Macbook Pro?

----------


## dannno

> What I am getting from this thread is a couple things.
> Macs are better designed, and the hardware is the same as the PC's (except for almost everything that you touch, use, or look at.) but most of these guys either cant or do not want to pay for it.
> 
> Got it. Free Market, I will keep buying macbooks.
> Enjoy your PC.


This doesn't really address any of the things being said and doesn't say anything about them being overpriced.

You keep saying Macs are better, yet I can get a FASTER PC for much less money. A faster PC, for less money. Repeat after me. I can get a much higher spec machine, faster processor, more memory, larger drive, for much less money. For some people, performance is important.. yet you aren't spending money on performance related parts, you're spending money on an arguably better case, battery and touchpad. The screens aren't even better anymore.

I'm gonna pull a Peter Schiff here.

What if Macs cost $5,000? Would you still buy them instead of a PC? What about $10,000? How much is the buttery smooth 2 finger scrolling worth to you? You're paying more than double the price for the same spec hardware, with maybe slightly higher grade mouse on your laptop? I usually have a little mini usb mouse that I carry around with my laptop, I rarely use the touchpad. The size and weight isn't really significant either. I have ubuntu installed, so my security is better than Mac or Windows.

----------


## dannno

> Name one way your PC laptop is superior to my Macbook Pro?


I can buy two or three laptops and give one to my wife/girlfriend and/or kid. We can all have the same high performance laptop, perform the same tasks, and be in 2 or 3 different places at once all for the same price as a single mac laptop with the same specs.

OR 

I can buy a much faster, more powerful higher spec machine for a few hundred dollars less.

----------


## TheViper

> Name one way your PC laptop is superior to my Macbook Pro?


Cheaper yet more powerful.  Even weighs 2 ounces less than a comparable Macbook Pro.  Also runs games pretty damn well.  And was 1/3rd the price.

----------


## georgia_tech_swagger

> Seeing how this debate is taking over another thread, figured I'd toss up a poll and let y'all hash it out here. 
> 
> btw, running Ubuntu 10.10 on our PCs here. 
> 
> eb


Razzzzzzzz.   You didn't tell me you used Linux.   I am heavily involved in the Linux community.   I use ArchLinux for desktops, Gentoo for servers.   I am also involved in ArchLinux AUR, the SouthEast LinuxFest, and I have a podcast reviewing distros.   Small world!

----------


## afwjam

If I bought a mac right now this would be it:

13" Macbook air
1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
256GB flash storage
$1639

Please find a comparable PC that is faster and cheaper.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Mac vs Windows is like Democrats vs Republicans. Linux is the Ron Paul of the field, and it will revolutionize computing. If you haven't tried a current version of Linux Mint or a similar flavor of Linux, you really should download it and give it a spin (it will run straight from CD). Linux has come a long way... automatic updating, as easy if not easier to use than Mac or Windows, runs faster and more stable, can run most Windows apps, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by PastaRocket848
> 
> ...


Democrats vs. Republicans (or vice versa) ~ Mac vs. Windows, where Ron Paul ~ Linux.

Ha! Did anyone else notice that PastaRocket's reply played right into Ninja Homer's (excellent) analogy?

OK. So much for my attempt to get this thread pointed in a direction at least _vaguely_ related to it's sub-forum.

Now back to our regularly scheduled pointless bickering over what is, ultimately, a matter of personal taste, and thus not susceptible to the sort of rational debate & carefully reasoned inter-personal communication in which X stands the _slightest_ chance in _hell_ of _ever_ convincing Y of _anything_ Y _damned_ well _doesn't_ want to be convinced about.

Our next topic: ice cream flavors - chocolate vs. strawberry.
I say people who prefer chocolate ice cream are big, fat doody-heads! Discuss ...

----------


## specsaregood

> Democrats vs. Republicans (or vice versa) ~ Mac vs. Windows, where Ron Paul ~ Linux.


Except I think Dr. Paul is much more inline with the Berkley/BSD License philosophy than the GNU/Linux license philosophy.

----------


## dannno

> Please find a comparable PC that is faster and cheaper.


Do you know the difference between these?

$2129
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Macbook-.../dp/B005E0DZB2

$1664
http://www.macmall.com/p/Apple-MacBo...06~pdp.giecbfj



I can't find dual core i7 laptops, only quad core. That's twice as much processing power. Here's one for less money, with (more than!) double the processing power (2.0 ghz quadcore i7), double the memory, much better video card and triple the hard drive space (although it's not flash memory, so I'd say the space is negligible). 

http://www.buy.com/prod/alienware-m1...222545804.html

This is a much more high performance system overall, despite the lack of flash memory, as most programs will be loaded into the 8gb of DDR3 memory and at that point will blow the mac out of the water.

----------


## TheViper

> If I bought a mac right now this would be it:
> 
> 13" Macbook air
> 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7
> 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
> 256GB flash storage
> $1639
> 
> Please find a comparable PC that is faster and cheaper.


Your price is a little off.  The 1.8 Ghz model is $1699.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215123
17" Acer Aspire
Intel Core i7 2.00GHz (4 cores, not 2)
6GB DDR3
750GB
$899.

Also has higher resolution screen, dedicated AMD Radeon HD 6650M graphics instead of integrated Intel HD 3000, an HDMI port and USB 3.0.

The Mac gets good nods for weight and a fast SSD (though just 256 GB).

----------


## afwjam

> Do you know the difference between these?
> 
> $2129
> http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Macbook-.../dp/B005E0DZB2
> 
> $1664
> http://www.macmall.com/p/Apple-MacBo...06~pdp.giecbfj
> 
> 
> ...



You know that computer is literally 3 times the size and weight? Hows the battery life? I was buying an ultraportable.

----------


## afwjam

> Your price is a little off.  The 1.8 Ghz model is $1699.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215123
> 17" Acer Aspire
> Intel Core i7 2.00GHz (4 cores, not 2)
> 6GB DDR3
> 750GB
> $899.
> 
> ...


again more then 3 times the size and weight, not an ultra portable. The macbook air has thunderbolt, that is way better then firewire and usb 3.0 put together.

----------


## afwjam

Here are the things you need to get in the ballpark with:
SSD
Size
weight
battery life
build quality
thunderbolt would be nice but of course not possible

----------


## TheViper

Hey, you asked for a laptop that was faster and cheaper and now you're going to move the goal posts?

----------


## afwjam

I found one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834131156

----------


## afwjam

> Hey, you asked for a laptop that was faster and cheaper and now you're going to move the goal posts?


this is what I said:



> Please find a comparable PC that is faster and cheaper.


What person buying an ultraportable would change their mind and go with a desktop?

----------


## TheViper

Wait, I have a challenge for you.

Find me a mac laptop that rivals this for the same price.

----------


## dannno

> this is what I said:
> 
> What person buying an ultraportable would change their mind and go with a desktop bigger laptop?


I dunno, somebody who wants more than double the processing power and speed for less money?

----------


## afwjam

> Wait, I have a challenge for you.
> 
> Find me a mac laptop that rivals this for the same price.


If I were honestly looking for a mac to be comparable to that I would buy a mac mini with a huge display or an imac. I do not consider anything over 5 pounds to be a laptop, it is in fact a desktop.
HP is the worst piece of $#@! computer, at least look at a dell or toshiba.

----------


## afwjam

> I dunno, somebody who wants more than double the processing power and speed for less money?


Some people need to take their notebook with them. I could buy a mac mini for way cheaper if I did not want to move.

----------


## dannno

> Some people need to take their notebook with them. I could buy a mac mini for way cheaper if I did not want to move.


What on EARTH is preventing anybody from taking any of the laptops that have been posted with us? They are still smaller and lighter than most school books.

A mac mini.. now you're just being silly. What am I supposed to take a monitor, mouse, keyboard and power supply with me too?!

----------


## TheViper

> If I were honestly looking for a mac to be comparable to that I would buy a mac mini with a huge display or an imac. I do not consider anything over 5 pounds to be a laptop, it is in fact a desktop.


Then you have a fundamental misunderstanding between a portable computer and a non-portable computer.

Doubling your price and reducing performance to save 2 pounds of weight doesn't sound all that good of a deal to me.

----------


## afwjam

> Then you have a fundamental misunderstanding between a portable computer and a non-portable computer.
> 
> Doubling your price and reducing performance to save 2 pounds of weight doesn't sound all that good of a deal to me.


How about saving 5 pounds, like 70% weight savings, some 60% savings in volume.

----------


## afwjam

Have you ever traveled anywhere with a 8 pound computer in your bag? I did in the 90's.

----------


## TheViper

> Have you ever traveled anywhere with a 8 pound computer in your bag? I did in the 90's.


7 pounds.  All through downtown every day.  Sometimes without elevators.    

I still prefer my performance over slight weight.   Weight I can handle.  Waiting forever for something to process bothers me.


And for a reminder, this is only 1 half of the debate in whole.  Do we need to look at desktops themselves?

----------


## dannno

> Doubling your price and reducing performance to save 2 pounds of weight doesn't sound all that good of a deal to me.


I have found that a lot of people who are into macs don't really care about performance and are more interested in having a really small computer. 

I have a big ol' desktop under my desk, but i also have a triple core 3.2 ghz processor, 8gb memory, 6gb/sec 1tb hard drive and a good video card.  And it was less than $600. My roommate has a mac mini, which cost more, but the performance is dismal and they don't have very much hard drive space.. but they like having a tiny computer, so whatever.

----------


## afwjam

> 7 pounds.  All through downtown every day.  Sometimes without elevators.    
> 
> I still prefer my performance over slight weight.   Weight I can handle.  Waiting forever for something to process bothers me.
> 
> 
> And for a reminder, this is only 1 half of the debate in whole.  Do we need to look at desktops themselves?


You do realize that with the SSD the macbook air is faster then your computer?
Laptops are 85% of Apples computer business. The desktops in Apples lineup speak for themselves.

----------


## afwjam

> I have found that a lot of people who are into macs don't really care about performance and are more interested in having a really small computer. 
> 
> I have a big ol' desktop under my desk, but i also have a triple core 3.2 ghz processor, 8gb memory, 6gb/sec 1tb hard drive and a good video card.  And it was less than $600. My roommate has a mac mini, which cost more, but the performance is dismal and they don't have very much hard drive space.. but they like having a tiny computer, so whatever.


a core i5 mac mini is hardly dismal in performance. The size of the mac mini is such that it is inconsequential, so is its power draw. Does your desktop draw less then 50W?

----------


## TheViper

> You do realize that with the SSD the macbook air is faster then your computer?


 The disk drive is hardly the only component to processing performance.

You take an application that is core dependent and your SDD won't mean a thing.  Also heavily depends on the SDD controller which can reduce performance to below HDD levels.

----------


## dannno

> You do realize that with the SSD the macbook air is faster then your computer?
> Laptops are 85% of Apples computer business. The desktops in Apples lineup speak for themselves.


The hard drive being faster only helps initial program load times, but once the program is loaded into memory it is run MUCH faster on his system. You also have to give up a lot of hard drive space, so there's a big trade off, although some day once they become cheaper I'm sure it will be standard technology.

----------


## dannno

> a core i5 mac mini is hardly dismal in performance. The size of the mac mini is such that it is inconsequential, so is its power draw. Does your desktop draw less then 50W?


So for $800 I could get a dual-core i5 with less processing power, half the memory, a quarter of the video memory, half the hard drive space..

Or for $300 cheaper I can get a system with more processing power, double the memory, better video card and double the hard drive space. The hard drive on the imac is 5400 rpm, and I'm guessing 3gb/sec, whereas mine is 7200 rpm and 6gb/sec. 

That is serious performance degradation for $300 more in price.. but ya, you get a much smaller computer.

----------


## afwjam

> The disk drive is hardly the only component to processing performance.
> 
> You take an application that is core dependent and your SDD won't mean a thing.  Also heavily depends on the SDD controller which can reduce performance to below HDD levels.



On my PC the thing I spent a majority of my time waiting on is windows and I have an SSD in my PC. 
My girlfriends macbook air with SSD does things in split seconds. Boots in 10 seconds, apps launch instantly, file transfers are near instant, install bars are none existent.  With my SSD my $#@!ing core i5 running at 3.8 ghz takes 35 seconds to boot winbloz.

----------


## afwjam

> The hard drive being faster only helps initial program load times, but once the program is loaded into memory it is run MUCH faster on his system. You also have to give up a lot of hard drive space, so there's a big trade off, although some day once they become cheaper I'm sure it will be standard technology.


So you would prefer to only discuss hardcore number crunching?
Match this:
Mac Pro
Two 2.66GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon Westmere (12 cores)
6GB (6X1GB)
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
$4,549.00

----------


## TheViper

> On my PC the thing I spent a majority of my time waiting on is windows and I have an SSD in my PC. 
> My girlfriends macbook air with SSD does things in split seconds. Boots in 10 seconds, apps launch instantly, file transfers are near instant, install bars are none existent.  With my SSD my $#@!ing core i5 running at 3.8 ghz takes 35 seconds to boot winbloz.


Then instal a Linux distro if you don't like the Windows bloat.   Or stop shutting down your PC.

----------


## afwjam

> Then instal a Linux distro if you don't like the Windows bloat.   Or stop shutting down your PC.


I live in Hawaii, I have to shut down my PC. It costs an extra $30 a month to keep it on.

----------


## TheViper

> So you would prefer to only discuss hardcore number crunching?
> Match this:
> Mac Pro
> Two 2.66GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores)
> 6GB (6X1GB)
> 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
> ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
> $4,549.00


 I can crush that for half the price.  I build servers.  I'll quadruple the RAM, give you 6 times the graphics processing power and 4 times the disk space.

----------


## dannno

> So you would prefer to only discuss hardcore number crunching?
> Match this:
> Mac Pro
> Two 2.66GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores)
> 6GB (6X1GB)
> 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
> ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
> $4,549.00


Well a single processor is about $900. A motherboard to run two processors would probably be around $300 or so, I'm guessing.

The rest of the computer has worse specs than my desktop. I have 8gb memory and a 6gb/sec 1 TB hard drive, and the video card is about the same. 

So I'm gonna guess around $2000-$2200 at most, though maybe somebody who is more familiar with multiple processor motherboards can price it for less.

----------


## afwjam

Lets see it... Spec it out... Post a link....
dual, six core xeon running 2.66, server grade board and case, ECC ram.

Lets see you beat it server boy.

----------


## Ninja Homer

> Democrats vs. Republicans (or vice versa) ~ Mac vs. Windows, where Ron Paul ~ Linux.
> 
> Ha! Did anyone else notice that PastaRocket's reply played right into Ninja Homer's (excellent) analogy?


You're right! There are a lot of similarities between Linux and RPR.  You won't find it from MSM (main stream manufacturers). You won't see commercials for it on TV... it's spread by word of mouth. As the economy gets worse and budgets tighten, it's popularity will increase (when you can build a decent PC for $250, do you really want to spend another $100 for Windows, or do you just put Linux on it for free?). It's created by people that want to make a better system, rather than corporate interests purely for profit. I'm sure there's more, but Linux' popularity is definitely increasing... it's not just for tech-heads and absolutists any more.

----------


## afwjam

I think I figured it out:

If you want a smart phone, buy an iPhone or iPhone clone
If you want an iPod, buy an iPod
If you want a tablet, buy an iPad
If you want a portable laptop, buy a macbook
If you want an all-in-one desktop, buy an iMac
If you want a small, power efficant computer that works to replace your dead PC, buy a mac mini
If you want a server grade workstation for actually getting professional work done, buy a Mac Pro
If you want a good company to invest in, buy Apple stock

If you want a cheap, poorly designed, powerful desktop or desktop replacement laptop to play WoW on, buy a PC.
I think that about sums it up.
Of course you could run Linux or Windows on any of them if you felt so inclined, you can only run Mac OS X on a mac.(easily)

----------


## iGGz

> Some people need to take their notebook with them. I could buy a mac mini for way cheaper if I did not want to move.


Lift some weights pussy

lol

----------


## FSP-Rebel

I'm a Mac person and all but why is this thread sucking the wind out of RPGC?

----------


## dannno

> I think I figured it out:
> 
> If you want a smart phone, buy an iPhone or iPhone clone
> If you want an iPod, buy an iPod
> If you want a tablet, buy an iPad
> If you want a portable laptop, buy a macbook
> If you want an all-in-one desktop, buy an iMac
> If you want a small, power efficant computer that works to replace your dead PC, buy a mac mini
> If you want a server grade workstation for actually getting professional work done, buy a Mac Pro
> ...


Or I could save THOUSANDS of dollars and buy alternatives to these items that out-perform the Apple version..

----------


## afwjam

> I'm a Mac person and all but why is this thread sucking the wind out of RPGC?


I think this thread has run its course. Should be locked.

----------


## afwjam

> Or I could save THOUSANDS of dollars and buy alternatives to these items that out-perform the Apple version..


I covered that:



> If you want a cheap, poorly designed, powerful desktop or desktop replacement laptop to play WoW on, buy a PC.

----------


## dannno

> I covered that:


1. I've never played WoW 

2. It's basically the same hardware, so I wouldn't call it poorly designed

----------


## TheViper

> Lets see it... Spec it out... Post a link....
> dual, six core xeon running 2.66, server grade board and case, ECC ram.
> 
> Lets see you beat it server boy.


You asked for it.

CPU:
Intel Xeon E5645 Westmere-EP 2.4GHz 6cores x 2 = $559 x 2 = $1,118
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117256

Motherboard:
TYAN S7002G2NR-LE Dual LGA 1366 = $254
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813151193

RAM: ECC
Crucial 24GB (3 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 = $459
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148445

RAM: Non-ECC (ECC isn't always even needed)
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 24GB (6 x 4GB) = $169
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231357

GPU:
XFX HHD 6970 2GB = $339
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150517

PSU:
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 = $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139021

Case:
Antec Performance One Series P193 V3 - $179
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129176

Total with EEC = $2,468
Total with non-ECC = $2,178

----------


## afwjam

> 2. It's basically the same hardware, so I wouldn't call it poorly designed


basically the same hardware....



The hardware looks identical.

----------


## realtonygoodwin

I run all 3 on my PC.

----------


## afwjam

> You asked for it.
> 
> CPU:
> Intel Xeon E5645 Westmere-EP 2.4GHz 6cores x 2 = $559 x 2 = $1,118
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117256
> 
> Motherboard:
> TYAN S7002G2NR-LE Dual LGA 1366 = $254
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813151193
> ...


wrong processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117231

That case, PSU, and MB are nowhere near server grade.
And you forgot the cost of windows server edition or whatever it is.
I assume your company will take responsibility for any hardware failures as well.
Try posting a link to a company who sells and supports a comparable computer.

----------


## TheViper

The motherboard isn't server grade?  Do you know any costumer grade desktop motherboards (Skulltrail side) that are dual socket and support Xeon CPU's?   The PSU doesn't need to be designed for a motherboard so long as all the circuitry protection schemes inside are the same as well as the power cabling.   And the case...what does being server grade for a case have to do with anything?   So long as the IO port's line up, the airflow is high quality, the motherboard holes line up and everything fits, what does server grade case even mean?  Not like your case is a rack mount or something.

Windows server?  Are you kidding?  It's a server...run Linux.

And each component comes with its own warranty.  And for a couple of hundred extra (total), I could extend said warranties greatly.


Why would I want to link to a company that sells servers when I can just as easily, and more, cheaply build my own?

----------


## afwjam

Ever feel like the drum you are pounding is getting smaller and smaller?
More and more people everyday are choosing with there own money to buy an Apple product. Apple is winning, the rest of the industry is loosing. Good luck fighting the truth.

----------


## TheViper

> Ever feel like the drum you are pounding is getting smaller and smaller?
> More and more people everyday are choosing with there own money to buy an Apple product. Apple is winning, the rest of the industry is loosing. Good luck fighting the truth.


And more and more people are building their own hardware and learning the value of Ubuntu.  

The free market is winning.   And I don't need luck fighting the truth when it is the truth I speak.

----------


## realtonygoodwin

lol... 

http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-crack...-decades/63273

Yeah...they are winning all right.

----------


## afwjam

> lol... 
> 
> http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-crack...-decades/63273
> 
> Yeah...they are winning all right.


How about looking at revenue, profits, percentage increase(or decrease) in sales.
The general trend....

----------


## realtonygoodwin

> basically the same hardware....
> 
> 
> 
> The hardware looks identical.


Wow. It doesn't have to do with the looks of the case... Look, Apple makes great machines, but they tend to be overpriced for most people.

----------


## afwjam

> Wow. It doesn't have to do with the looks of the case... Look, Apple makes great machines, but they tend to be overpriced for most people.


Well actually apple gives you the better case and hardware for less then Dell so that not true. The pictured dell is $6000 while the pictured Mac Pro is $4500. They have nearly identical specifications.

----------


## TheViper

Under the hood, a 1969 Chevy Corvette Stingray may not look as fancy under the hood as a common Camry.   But which one outperforms the other?

You seem as much caught up on the looks, interior and exterior, more so than actual capability of the machine.

----------


## realtonygoodwin

I may ruin your analogy, but I think the Camry would be cheaper and last longer lol.

----------


## afwjam

> Under the hood, a 1969 Chevy Corvette Stingray may not look as fancy under the hood as a common Camry.   But which one outperforms the other?
> 
> You seem as much caught up on the looks, interior and exterior, more so than actual capability of the machine.


Well if its the V6 camry you might be surprised.
But a more accurate comparison would be a camaro vs Mercedes.

----------


## TheViper

Geez, both of you guys are missing the point.  I was analogizing the look under the hood as the debate with the internal looks of the Mac vs Dell was in play.

----------


## EonBlue

Free computer from my wife she bought over 10 years ago, still running strong:

Kernel 2.6.35-22-generic i686 (32 bit) Distro Peppermint
CPU:       Single core Intel Celeron (UP) cache 128 KB flags (sse2) bmips 3388.74 clocked at 1694.373 MHz 
Graphics:  Card Intel 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device X.Org 1.7.6 Res: 1440x900@59.9hz 
           GLX Renderer Mesa DRI Intel 845G GEM 20091221 2009Q4 x86/MMX/SSE2 GLX Version 1.3 Mesa 7.7.1 Direct Rendering Yes
Audio:     Card Intel 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller driver Intel ICH at ports e000 e400 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Version 1.0.23
Network:   Card Broadcom BCM4401 100Base-T driver b44 v: 2.0
Disks:     HDD Total Size: 30.8GB (26.0% used) 1: /dev/sda Maxtor 2F030J0 30.8GB 
Partition: ID:/ size: 27G used: 7.5G (30%) fs: ext4 ID:swap-1 size: 1.31GB used: 0.07GB (6%) fs: swap 
Info:      Processes 107 Uptime 12 days Memory 430.3/747.9MB Client Shell inxi 1



PS, Preload seems to help a lot.

----------


## pcosmar

PCLinuxOS. 
Been running this distro since 2005 (tried several 2003-2005)
current kernel 2.6 38.8-pclos1.bfs

----------


## libertarian4321

> What I am getting from this thread is a couple things.
> Macs are better designed, and the hardware is the same as the PC's (except for almost everything that you touch, use, or look at.) but most of these guys either cant or do not want to pay for it.
> 
> Got it. Free Market, I will keep buying macbooks.
> Enjoy your PC.
> 
> Name one way your PC laptop is superior to my Macbook Pro?


Yup, free market. 

One way the PC is superior to the Mac is in sales in the free market.  The free market has determined that Macs don't compete very well.  Since the mid-late '80s, anyway, which was the last time Mac's dominated (and was also the last time I owned a Mac).  In that free market, PC's outsell Macs by a huge margin.

I'll continue to use $500-$800 PCs that do the job I need them to do, rather than the vastly more expensive Macs (and before you tell me how pretty or "cool" the mac is, I don't care- I'm buying a tool, not making a fashion statement) and I'll invest the difference.

It's worked very well for me so far.

So you keep paying a ton of money for "cool," and I'll save my money and and buy a much cheaper PC that does the job just fine.

I'd rather have the money.

----------


## Revolution9

> Yup, free market. 
> <snip baiting>
> I'd rather have the money.


Me too. Ergo, for production sake I will stick with the best toolset for the jobs I do. I do archviz, compositing, SFX, character, procedural and mechanical animation, engineering drawings, product previz, iOS, PC, Mac, Android and web game and app development, commercial production and music composition and scoring. The Mac is an excellent and hard to beat platform with top rated toolsets for this cross section of visualisation and coding arts.

Best Regards
Rev9

----------


## libertarian4321

> Ever feel like the drum you are pounding is getting smaller and smaller?
> More and more people everyday are choosing with there own money to buy an Apple product. Apple is winning, the rest of the industry is loosing. Good luck fighting the truth.


It's "losing," not "loosing"- I've never understood why people make that mistake so often.
Back to the subject at hand:

Apple is still a small player in computers- they sell a ton of iPods and music, but Mac sales are still less than 5% of the market.  That's better than the 2-3% they had sunk to around the turn of the century, but still not even close to the big players- and still a mere fraction of Apple's market share back in the day when it was the industry leader.

Don't be too cocky about Apple, btw.  Apple once was the dominant player in the market, and came crashing down badly when Steve Jobs left the company.  

And after suffering pancreatic cancer, hormone imbalances, a liver transplant, and a taking a medical leave of absence in recent years, Steve Jobs isn't the healthiest guy in the world...

----------


## Revolution9

> Or I could save THOUSANDS of dollars and buy alternatives to these items that out-perform the Apple version..


You could. I couldn't. I do different things than you and work daily different than you. Linux does not have the requisite toolsets for me to continue making money with. It would be like trying to work in an auto mechanics shop with carpenters tools. So, your speed and savings mean nothing to me. I have a computer that instantly, to my human senses, does what i ask of it, does not give me any hassles and produces art that I get paid well for. Any argument to me to the contrary as to me losing money or having a $#@! piece of kit is sheer unadulterated balderdash and is myopic in its scope. 

And..BTW..your assertion above is patently false via misdirection and utter vagueness of parameters making it sound like sloganeering.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## libertarian4321

> Me too. Ergo, for production sake I will stick with the best toolset for the jobs I do. I do archviz, compositing, SFX, character, procedural and mechanical animation, engineering drawings, product previz, iOS, PC, Mac, Android and web game and app development, commercial production and music composition and scoring. The Mac is an excellent and hard to beat platform with top rated toolsets for this cross section of visualisation and coding arts.
> 
> Best Regards
> Rev9


It is NOT wise to buy more tool than you need.  For some people, they may "need" a Mac.  But most people don't.  Ergo, for most people, it's a waste of money to buy a Mac.

I choose not to waste my money.  I buy the lowest cost computer that will reliably do what I need it to do, and that means I don't buy Macs.

Cut the starting price for a Mac in half and we can start to have a discussion.  Otherwise, I won't even consider a Mac.

----------


## libertarian4321

Buy a instead of a Mac, send the savings to www.ronpaul2012.com 

I figured someone should get this topic sort of back on Ron Paul!

----------


## afwjam

> It's "losing," not "loosing"- I've never understood why people make that mistake so often.
> Back to the subject at hand:
> 
> Apple is still a small player in computers- they sell a ton of iPods and music, but Mac sales are still less than 5% of the market.  That's better than the 2-3% they had sunk to around the turn of the century, but still not even close to the big players- and still a mere fraction of Apple's market share back in the day when it was the industry leader.
> 
> Don't be too cocky about Apple, btw.  Apple once was the dominant player in the market, and came crashing down badly when Steve Jobs left the company.  
> 
> And after suffering pancreatic cancer, hormone imbalances, a liver transplant, and a taking a medical leave of absence in recent years, Steve Jobs isn't the healthiest guy in the world...


10.5% and that is not counting the iPad.

----------


## Revolution9

> It's "losing," not "loosing"- I've never understood why people make that mistake so often.
> Back to the subject at hand:
> 
> Apple is still a small player in computers- they sell a ton of iPods and music, but Mac sales are still less than 5% of the market.  That's better than the 2-3% they had sunk to around the turn of the century, but still not even close to the big players- and still a mere fraction of Apple's market share back in the day when it was the industry leader.
> 
> Don't be too cocky about Apple, btw.  Apple once was the dominant player in the market, and came crashing down badly when Steve Jobs left the company.  
> 
> And after suffering pancreatic cancer, hormone imbalances, a liver transplant, and a taking a medical leave of absence in recent years, Steve Jobs isn't the healthiest guy in the world...


Hoooboy..You want to start discussing the steriliser vaccine pushing, seed vault stuffing, genocide promoting, intel back pocket stoolie son of a mother responsible for the wartime efficiency of Adolf Hitler and his band of merrymakers through her membership of the board of IBM just to give a minor taste of this borg minded ego nerd's psychological, genealogical and "charitable" background.

On lose and losers.. Yeah..pisses me off too. Wonder whether it is the Mac, PC or Linux crowd who do it the most. It seems like one person in 1995 misspelled it and it snowballed from there. Rouge versus rogue is another one pissing me off. A rouge terrorist group is a bunch of mimes with blush and imaginary bombs that explode without noise. Effin' losers.

Best
Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> It is NOT wise to buy more tool than you need.  For some people, they may "need" a Mac.  But most people don't.  Ergo, for most people, it's a waste of money to buy a Mac.
> 
> I choose not to waste my money.  I buy the lowest cost computer that will reliably do what I need it to do, and that means I don't buy Macs.
> 
> Cut the starting price for a Mac in half and we can start to have a discussion.  Otherwise, I won't even consider a Mac.


That is fine. You won''t start clogging my marketplace with shovelware and filling up email boxes of job offers with talentless drivel and mom's fridge magnet level of artwork.. Not that that is what you do...but what i have to contend with.

Best
Rev9

----------


## libertarian4321

> 10.5% and that is not counting the iPad.


In the USA, not worldwide, where their market share is much smaller.

Although with all those new bogus Apple stores in China, that might change soon.

----------


## Revolution9

> In the USA, not worldwide, where their market share is much smaller.
> 
> Although with all those new bogus Apple stores in China, that might change soon.


Explain why they are bogus or look like you just like flinging baseless invective around just for the sheer troll of it.

BTW, Apple is a powerhouse of the US economy. Its earnings surpass Microsoft. Its impact is worldwide and is considered a leader in the field. This is due to quality and innovation. Like Ron Paul they stayed standing whilst everybody was swinging at them counting them out. In the end they won the idea war.

Rev9

----------


## libertarian4321

> Explain why they are bogus or look like you just like flinging baseless invective around just for the sheer troll of it.


I guess I should have explained that.

There was a news story earlier this week that the authorities had busted a couple of fake "Apple Stores" in China.

This article has the story and a picture of the store, which looks pretty close to a real store:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/usa/bus...t_13001232.htm

----------


## dannno

> wrong processor
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117231
> 
> That case, PSU, and MB are nowhere near server grade.
> And you forgot the cost of windows server edition or whatever it is.
> I assume your company will take responsibility for any hardware failures as well.
> Try posting a link to a company who sells and supports a comparable computer.


Dude, he just quadrupled your RAM, gave you a much better video card and doubled your hard drive space... and it was STILL HALF THE FREAKING COST. I can't believe you don't get it yet.

----------


## dannno

> Me too. Ergo, for production sake I will stick with the best toolset for the jobs I do. I do archviz, compositing, SFX, character, procedural and mechanical animation, engineering drawings, product previz, iOS, PC, Mac, Android and web game and app development, commercial production and music composition and scoring. The Mac is an excellent and hard to beat platform with top rated toolsets for this cross section of visualisation and coding arts.
> 
> Best Regards
> Rev9


You have hundreds of dollars invested in specialized Mac software and considering you make a lot more money with your computer than you spend on it, getting a Mac isn't a big issue.

Where it doesn't make as much sense is when they aren't using their computer in the media industry and someone can spend less than half the money for the same specs, or about 60% and get a higher performance machine.

----------


## dannno

> Free computer from my wife she bought over 10 years ago, still running strong:


Ya my roommate has a Mac laptop, i think it's probably about 2 or 3 years old.. his battery just stopped charging in the last couple days and his wifi intermittently gets really slow. 

Macs aren't perfect and trouble free like many claim. I've had plenty of PCs that had no issues at all.

----------


## mconder

I'm a Windows Systems engineer. Bought a Mac about a year and a half ago and will never go back to Windows. Mac with Parallels is all I need. By the way. I've never had anti-virus from day 1 and not 1 infection. Try that with Windows. Yes...you can buy way more hardware for way less for Windows, but Mac laptops have insane build quality. I through mine around, take it in the car, walk around with it everywhere, never use a case and it still looks fairly new.

----------


## robmpreston

> I'm a Windows Systems engineer. Bought a Mac about a year and a half ago and will never go back to Windows. Mac with Parallels is all I need. By the way. I've never had anti-virus from day 1 and not 1 infection. Try that with Windows. Yes...you can buy way more hardware for way less for Windows, but Mac laptops have insane build quality. I through mine around, take it in the car, walk around with it everywhere, never use a case and it still looks fairly new.


Haven't used anti-virus in 10 years on a PC and no issues. Guess not being a moron helps.

----------


## Microsecessionist

I use W7 but only because that's best for games.  I picked Linux in the poll because it's open source.

----------


## CaseyJones

moved to offtopic

----------


## dannno

> I'm a Windows Systems engineer. Bought a Mac about a year and a half ago and will never go back to Windows. Mac with Parallels is all I need. By the way. I've never had anti-virus from day 1 and not 1 infection. Try that with Windows. Yes...you can buy way more hardware for way less for Windows, but Mac laptops have insane build quality. I through mine around, take it in the car, walk around with it everywhere, never use a case and it still looks fairly new.


Instead of spending double the amount just to get a slighly smaller and possibly sturdier machine, you could have installed Ubuntu. It's not like other laptops are insanely heavy or prone to damage, it just seems like a lot to spend on something that is mostly cosmetic/immaterial. 

I admit Mac is way better for personal computing now-a-days than it used to be, it just seems to be unnecessarily expensive in most cases.

----------


## torchbearer

> Instead of spending double the amount just to get a slighly smaller and possibly sturdier machine, you could have installed Ubuntu. It's not like other laptops are insanely heavy or prone to damage, it just seems like a lot to spend on something that is mostly cosmetic/immaterial. 
> 
> I admit Mac is way better for personal computing now-a-days than it used to be, it just seems to be unnecessarily expensive in most cases.


since Mac is intel now, and they use the same hardware as the pc- there should be no difference in price. unless the OS makes it more expensive.

----------


## Revolution9

> Haven't used anti-virus in 10 years on a PC and no issues. Guess not being a moron helps.


You are just a snot nosed, venom spewing WoW player. You have no opinion worth holding. As for proof you are not a moron. It would be very hard to come by judging by the droolings and spew you have added to this thread.

HTH
Rev9

----------


## flybeech

Ubuntu 11.10 most of the time and Windows 7 when I have to.

----------


## jeremiah89

Running Windows 7 currently, but have been meaning to get back into Linux lately (probably Ubuntu, but maybe Linux Mint).

----------


## Birdlady

My husband Hackintosh'd my PC, so I could use garageband and imovie. It's been the best thing over. I use my Mac for music recording/video making/editing and my PC for gaming and internet browsing. I haven't had any serious issues so far.

----------

