# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  Now experts say low fat diets are BAD for us

## donnay

*Now experts say low fat diets are BAD for us: Obesity charity claims we should stop counting calories and eat more healthy fats - but the Government brands advice 'irresponsible'*

By Fiona Macrae for the Daily Mail and Anna Hodgekiss and Madlen Davies for MailOnline
Published: 19:05 EST, 22 May 2016

Cutting back on butter, cream, cheese and other fatty foods is fuelling the obesity epidemic with disastrous consequences for health, experts have warned.

In a damning report that accuses major public health bodies of colluding with the food industry, the National Obesity Forum and the Public Health Collaboration said most of what we are told about healthy eating is wrong.

The report's authors say the epidemic's roots lie in the modern-day obsession with low-fat diets, while snacking between meals is making people fat.

And their highly controversial report  - which has been slammed by many other experts for being 'irresponsible' - cites studies which show a higher-fat, lower-carb diet to be superior.

It states: 'Eating a diet rich in full-fat dairy  such as cheese, milk and yoghurt  can actually lower the chance of obesity.

'The most natural and nutritious foods available  meat, fish, eggs, dairy products, nuts, seeds, olives, avocados  all contain saturated fat.'

Calling for a 'major overhaul' of dietary guidelines, today's report claims:

* Processed foods labelled 'low fat', 'lite', 'low cholesterol' or 'proven to lower cholesterol' should be avoided at all costs 

* People with type 2 diabetes should eat a fat-rich diet rather than one based on carbohydrates.

* Sugar should be avoided and we should stop counting calories. 

* The idea that exercise can help you 'outrun a bad diet' is a myth.

* Instead, a diet low in refined carbohydrates but high in healthy fats is 'an effective and safe approach for preventing weight gain and aiding weight loss', and cuts the risk of heart disease.

* The report's authors call for a return to 'whole foods' such as meat, fish and dairy, as well as high fat healthy foods including avocados, arguing that 'eating fat does not make you fat'.

* Eating a diet rich in full fat dairy - such as cheese, milk and yoghurt - can actually lower the chance of obesity.

* Saturated fat does not cause heart disease, while full fat diary can actually protect the heart.

It states: 'The most natural and nutritious foods available - meat, fish, eggs, dairy products, nuts, seeds, olive, avocados - all contain saturated fat. 

'The continued demonisation of omnipresent natural fat drives people away from highly nourishing, wholesome and health promoting foods.'

Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-calories.html

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## tod evans

Best thing anyone can do is to disregard ALL the so called experts when it comes to food......

Try to eat things that you know to be healthy and not messed with by chemists, your body will crave what it needs if given healthy choices.

My mothers advice still rings true; "If the wrapper is better for you than what's inside it don't eat either."

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## donnay

> Best thing anyone can do is to disregard ALL the so called experts when it comes to food......
> 
> Try to eat things that you know to be healthy and not messed with by chemists, your body will crave what it needs if given healthy choices.
> 
> My mothers advice still rings true; "If the wrapper is better for you than what's inside it don't eat either."



Sage advice.

My mother always said,  "if you cannot pronounce the ingredients on the wrapper then put it back."

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Sage advice.
> 
> My mother always said,  "if you cannot pronounce the ingredients on the wrapper then put it back."


That doesn't work for me as I know what most are. Knowing what most are, does work for me though. 

I really don't know when the last time was I ate something I didn't made from scratch. (at home that is) Except for maybe my bread but it comes from a bakery that doesn't use any additives or they specifically note which.. I eat organic meat and dairy. Crops that are pesticide intensive I try to get organic as well. 

I eat varied, not too much but slightly more fatty than the average person. No particular diet. Just varied.

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## Suzanimal

I think it's a balance. If ya eat a bunch of calories you don't need, you're going to get fat, no matter where they come from and fat is high in calories. BUT you need *healthy* fat to lose weight. When I need to drop a few pounds quickly, I count my calories (fat, too) and have a little fat with every meal. For example, a grilled piece of boneless, skinless chicken breast with a spinach salad topped with vinegar and a drizzle of olive oil or I may have two over easy eggs on top of a bed of greens and I count the yolks as my fat. You can lose weight going fat free (I have) but it sucks and I noticed that I can lose more, faster if I have a little healthy fat with each meal. As a matter of fact, when I hit a plateau on my low fat diet, I would eat a burger patty with some spinach to jump start weight loss again. Seriously, I can lose 10 lbs in a week. Not the healthiest thing to do but sometimes I do it when an event's coming up. I just started a weight purge today because I ate like a pig on vacation and kept on pigging out when I got back. I put on 10 fricking pounds! My goal is to drop it before a cool wine tasting event on June 3. Two weeks, ten pounds - I've totally got this.

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## juleswin

> That doesn't work for me as I know what most are. Knowing what most are, does work for me though. 
> 
> I really don't know when the last time was I ate something I didn't made from scratch. (at home that is) Except for maybe my bread but it comes from a bakery that doesn't use any additives or they specifically note which.. I eat organic meat and dairy. Crops that are pesticide intensive I try to get organic as well. 
> 
> I eat varied, not too much but slightly more fatty than the average person. No particular diet. Just varied.


Yea, but her mom said ingredients she cannot pronounce and not ingredients she doesn't know what it is. There is a problem with that too because if govt required natural foods to be labeled like processed foods, most people wouldn't be able to pronounce the ingredients either. Can you imagine trying to pronounce the chemical name for the dye nature uses in making apples red? 

Actually, I looked it up and its not that hard to pronounce, but you get the point.

Chemical name: 2-phenylchromenylium

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Yea, but her mom said ingredients she cannot pronounce and not ingredients she doesn't know what it is. There is a problem with that too because if govt required natural foods to be labeled like processed foods, most people wouldn't be able to pronounce the ingredients either. Can you imagine trying to pronounce the chemical name for the dye nature uses in making apples red? 
> 
> Actually, I looked it up and its not that hard to pronounce, but you get the point.
> 
> Chemical name: 2-phenylchromenylium


If you had to put every chemical compound that's in an apple on the label you'd need a really big label. The thing is that you should put the things on the label which in nature wouldn't ordinarily be found in said product. "Added compounds" or whatever really. 

I think for a lot of people though, there's the choice. Do you get an imperfect apple, or do you get a perfect one that's laced with whatever... Label or no label, it doesn't make a big difference I think. People generally don't give a $#@!.

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## juleswin

> If you had to put every chemical compound that's in an apple on the label you'd need a really big label. *The thing is that you should put the things on the label which in nature wouldn't ordinarily be found in said product*. "Added compounds" or whatever really. 
> 
> I think for a lot of people though, there's the choice. Do you get an imperfect apple, or do you get a perfect one that's laced with whatever... Label or no label, it doesn't make a big difference I think. People generally don't give a $#@!.


Exactly, if someone added red apple color(2-phenylchromenylium) to a corn based cereal, then he would have to label it. Going by the pronounce rule, someone who cannot pronounce it would avoid said cereal when he/she eats red apples without any question.

Sadly, most people would choose a perfect looking apples even though it might contain all sorts of cancer inducing chemicals over a natural ugly looking one. People don't give a $#@! but they follow trends, this is why the food industry fights labeling laws cos people will eat stuff until they are told to stop eating it and without labels, it would be much harder to tell the consumers what to avoid(good or bad).

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Exactly, if someone added red apple color(2-phenylchromenylium) to a corn based cereal, then he would have to label it. Going by the pronounce rule, someone who cannot pronounce it would avoid said cereal when he/she eats red apples without any question.
> 
> Sadly, most people would choose a perfect looking apples even though it might contain all sorts of cancer inducing chemicals over a natural ugly looking one. People don't give a $#@! but they follow trends, this is why the food industry fights labeling laws cos people will eat stuff until they are told to stop eating it and without labels, it would be much harder to tell the consumers what to avoid(good or bad).


I don't know what it's like in the US but I suspect it's similar.

Many food additives over here are labeled as 'natural coloring or natural flavor', things like that, in fact they have been grown by GMO by using GMO bacteria as a factory. Now I have no problem with that but I would like it if that was disclosed. I'd like 'natural' to mean, something that would ordinarily happen in nature, not that it's produced by something that's alive rather than a chemical reaction. Because a living thing is also a chemical factory... 

Most of the fruit I eat is fruit I grow myself that's harvestable in summer/fall, I don't eat a lot of fruit apart from that.. The only fruit I buy are citrus fruits of all kinds. They don't grow that well over here. I'll use those year round but the stuff that grows here I only eat when it's in season and I either eat my own or get local grown produce. 

I just relate stuff to what it looks like in my garden, if it looks too perfect, it isn't good.  That's my rule of thumb. It should still look tasty though.

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## juleswin

> I don't know what it's like in the US but I suspect it's similar.
> 
> Many food additives over here are labeled as 'natural coloring or natural flavor', things like that, in fact they have been grown by GMO by using GMO bacteria as a factory. Now I have no problem with that but I would like it if that was disclosed. I'd like 'natural' to mean, something that would ordinarily happen in nature, not that it's produced by something that's alive rather than a chemical reaction. Because a living thing is also a chemical factory... 
> 
> Most of the fruit I eat is fruit I grow myself that's harvestable in summer/fall, I don't eat a lot of fruit apart from that.. The only fruit I buy are citrus fruits of all kinds. They don't grow that well over here. I'll use those year round but the stuff that grows here I only eat when it's in season and I either eat my own or get local grown produce. 
> 
> I just relate stuff to what it looks like in my garden, if it looks too perfect, it isn't good.  That's my rule of thumb. It should still look tasty though.


Not everybody have the luxury to do that. For me, I try as much as possible to eat foods that are made with ingredient found it nature, I don't always succeed but put some effort into that goal. Also, I am not really bothered eating ingredients man synthesized if its found in nature. 2-phenylchromenylium for the most part is 2-phenylchromenyliumn regardless of who the creator is.

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## Zippyjuan

Article goes on to say that saturated fats are not good for you as well.  It also does not present any evidence (studies, statistics) to support the claims. It is described as an "opinion paper".  (Daily Mail likes "click bait" articles). It does suggest cutting snacks and suggests that this was the problem with obesity- noting that most of the recommended foods in the piece are not high in saturated fats. 




> There is good evidence that replacing saturated fats with unsaturated fats can help lower cholesterol, it says. 
> Found primarily in oils from plants, unsaturated fats can be either polyunsaturated or monounsaturated. 
> Monounsaturated fats help protect our hearts by maintaining levels of HDL cholesterol while reducing levels of LDL cholesterol.
> Monounsaturated fats are found in:
> olive oil, rapeseed oil and their spreads
> avocados
> some nuts, such as almonds, brazils and peanuts
> There are two types of polyunsaturated fats: omega-3 and omega-6. 
> Some types of omega-3 and omega-6 fats cannot be made by the body and are therefore essential in small amounts in the diet.
> ...


Eating a bowl of butter will not make you skinny.

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## dannno

> Article goes on to say that saturated fats are not good for you as well - noting that most of the recommended foods in the piece are not high in saturated fats.


What the hell are you blathering about?




> 'The most natural and nutritious foods available  meat, fish, eggs, dairy products, nuts, seeds, olives, avocados  all contain saturated fat.'
> 
> * Saturated fat does not cause heart disease, while full fat diary can actually protect the heart.


The article goes back and forth between experts who disagree on the subject, but it seems to be saying that saturated fat is good overall.

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## Ender

> Article goes on to say that saturated fats are not good for you as well.  It also does not present any evidence (studies, statistics) to support the claims. It is described as an "opinion paper".  (Daily Mail likes "click bait" articles). It does suggest cutting snacks and suggests that this was the problem with obesity- noting that most of the recommended foods in the piece are not high in saturated fats. 
> 
> 
> 
> Eating a bowl of butter will not make you skinny.


Try it- 

You cannot lose weight w/o fats. 

Saturated fats are necessary!

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## Zippyjuan

They are necessary- in limited amounts.  Too much of anything is not good for you.  Moderation in all things.

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## dannno

> noting that most of the recommended foods in the piece are not high in saturated fats. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				There is good evidence that replacing saturated fats with unsaturated fats can help lower cholesterol, it says.
> Found primarily in oils from plants, unsaturated fats can be either polyunsaturated or monounsaturated.
> ...


lol...c'mon zippy, you just took the part of the article that contained the Government recommendations and pasted it, taking out the part where they mention that they are government recommendations!!

The part you snipped out:




> There are different types of fat and some are better for us than others, *the Government claims.*
> 
> To cut the risk of heart disease, *the Government recommends cutting the amount of saturated fat* - found in meat and dairy products - with unsaturated fat.


The whole point of the article was to say that the government claims are wrong.





> Eating a bowl of butter will not make you skinny.



Zippy, have you ever tried a low carb diet? If not maybe you shouldn't give advice about it.. I eat all the coconut oil, grass fed butter and animal products I want, along with a bunch of mostly low-starch veggies.. as long I don't eat much carbs my body fat will decrease. *Eating fat doesn't make you fat - eating carbs makes you fat.* Your body produces body fat using carbs, not dietary fat.

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## Zippyjuan

> The report's authors say the epidemic's roots lie in the modern-day obsession with low-fat diets, *while snacking between meals is making people fat.*


...and again to note- they provide not data or studies to support their claims.

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## dannno

> ...


Snacking on carbs.

Guess what? Carbs are cheap and they are easy to store. Sometimes I eat more carbs because I'm too busy or it's just more convenient. I gain some body fat during those times. Then I cut the carbs and eat more fat and the body fat melts away.

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## Zippyjuan

So you were snacking more. (I haven't found any link to the original report yet).

I did find an article on their website http://www.nationalobesityforum.org.uk/ about promoting healthy foods.  Funny- saturated fats are not mentioned.  




> New study gets more people buying healthy foods
> 
> 
> 
> A new study, the first of its kind in the UK, indicates that *shoppers are more likely to buy healthy foods in the supermarket if faced with strong visual health prompts at point of sale.*
> 
> Led by Damian Edwards, Behavioural Advisor to the National Obesity Forum, the Healthier Choices Pilot saw the sale of *fresh fruit rise by 20% and the sale of frozen fruit by nearly 30% in a trial supermarket over a 15 week period.* 
> 
> In the Morrisons Salford Supermarket, Edwards installed life size cut outs of doctors and nurses* by the fruit and veg section* with ‘Let’s Shop Healthier’ slogans around the store and outside. Floor stickers at the fish counter also provided further prompts. Free ‘bags for life’ were also available for shoppers to pick up at the fresh produce section when purchasing fruit or vegetables.
> ...

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## dannno

> So you were snacking more.


No, I'm talking about replacing a meal that I would fix myself, veggies, meats and maybe some fruit, with a burger or tacos or something because I'm out and about and eating paleo is fairly difficult when you don't cook your own food. Or maybe because I'm staying with other people, or travelling. I could get a lettuce wrap, but then I don't get the meat juices and I have to eat it like a salad. That's how I make my burgers at home, but I don't mind eating it like a salad at home and my dog gets the meat juices - at least somebody gets them. Since I'm skinny to begin with, it's fine to do once in a while for the sake of convenience, I just have to moderate how often I eat like that or else I start gaining a few lbs. 





> I did find an article on their website http://www.nationalobesityforum.org.uk/ about promoting healthy foods.  Funny- saturated fats are not mentioned.


Just read the quotes I posted above, they clearly said that saturated fats protect the heart and are contained in the most nutritious foods. The quotes you kept posting and referring to were the government indoctrination quotes that were intended to offset what was being said by the group.

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## oyarde

Humans developed the brain they have by a diet high in fat.

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## Zippyjuan

Where was primative man getting all that saturated fat to develop the brain from?  What were they eating?  Ice cream and butter?   If they were eating meat- most wild meat is pretty low in fats.

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## juleswin

> Where was primative man getting all that saturated fat to develop the brain from?  What were they eating?  Ice cream and butter?   If they were eating meat- most wild meat is pretty low in fats.


Palm and coconut oil?

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## specsaregood

> Where was primative man getting all that saturated fat to develop the brain from?  What were they eating?  Ice cream and butter?   If they were eating meat- most wild meat is pretty low in fats.


There have been some theories promoted that mans large brain growth could only have come from a diet very high in EFA/DHA and iodine.   So probably seafood of some sort.

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## brushfire

> Too much of anything is not good for you.  Moderation in all things.


I think this is the key.

In a slightly different context, I see people wanting full servings of "substitutes", as though it will be better for them.   I've always told my wife, I'd rather have a smaller portion of the real thing, than make a compromise of quality for quantity.

Moderation...

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## oyarde

> Where was primative man getting all that saturated fat to develop the brain from?  What were they eating?  Ice cream and butter?   If they were eating meat- most wild meat is pretty low in fats.


Probably same stuff I eat up North if the Mrs is not along . Bears , salmon etc

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## oyarde

> There have been some theories promoted that mans large brain growth could only have come from a diet very high in EFA/DHA and iodine.   So probably seafood of some sort.


A guy ought to have some scallops with the escargot and roasted Giant Sloth. I would suggest a Merlot with that .

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## dannno

> Where was primative man getting all that saturated fat to develop the brain from?  What were they eating?  Ice cream and butter?   If they were eating meat- most wild meat is pretty low in fats.


They ate high fat organ meats first.

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## oyarde

> They ate high fat organ meats first.


Moose heart , Buffalo tongue , Dove hearts etc , all pretty tasty

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## Brian4Liberty

> My goal is to drop it before a cool wine tasting event on June 3. Two weeks, ten pounds - I've totally got this.


Will they be pairing Franzia with Bolonga and Velveeta on a Ritz?

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## farreri

What the other half of the article says,




> The controversial claims have been heavily criticised by other experts who accused the report's authors of *cherry picking evidence to suit their own arguments*. 
> 
> Dr Alison Tedstone, chief nutritionist at Public Heath England, said:
> 
> 'In the face of all the evidence, calling for people to eat more fat, cut out carbs and ignore calories *is irresponsible*. 
> 
> 'Unlike *this opinion piece*, our independent experts review all the available evidence - often thousands of scientific papers - run full-scale consultations and go to great lengths to ensure no bias. 
> 
> Professor Tom Sanders, of King's College London, said: 'The claim that eating fat doesn't make you fat is absurd. If you eat a lot of fat, you will get fat.'
> ...

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## Zippyjuan

> Moose heart , Buffalo tongue , Dove hearts etc , all pretty tasty


So you think that was a significant part of their diet?  (heart and tongue are relatively low fat).

(I still haven't been able to locate the original opinion piece to see what it actually says- anybody else find it?)

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## dannno

> So you think that was a significant part of their diet?  (heart and tongue are relatively low fat).
> 
> (I still haven't been able to locate the original opinion piece to see what it actually says- anybody else find it?)


Tongue is high in saturated fat, heart is high in nutrients. Then you also have the liver, kidneys, brain, eyeballs, cheek, and fatty parts all went first. Sometimes lean muscle meat was discarded if there was a lack of scarcity.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Professor Tom Sanders, of King's College London, said: 'The claim that  eating fat doesn't make you fat is absurd. If you eat a lot of fat, you  will get fat.'


Bull$#@!. I eat a high fat diet and I'm not fat. I also adjust my caloric/macronutrient intake according to my activity level. If your claim were true, the Russians would be obese on average-their diet, on average, is very fatty. However, Russians are known for being thin.

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## Suzanimal

> Will they be pairing Franzia with Bolonga and Velveeta on a Ritz?


Probably not, this is a fancy event. I have to be on my best behavior. BTW, I don't but baloney and Velveeta on Ritz. I put garlic cream cheese and olives on Chicken in a Biscit crackers - when I'm dieting, I just lick the crackers. I lick Doritos when I'm dieting, too.

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## opal

> Probably not, this is a fancy event. I have to be on my best behavior. BTW, I don't but baloney and Velveeta on Ritz. I put garlic cream cheese and olives on Chicken in a Biscit crackers - when I'm dieting, I just lick the crackers. I lick Doritos when I'm dieting, too.


Rofl!  yep.. that's funny

*enter the conspiracy theorist*
The whole low fat high carb diet was designed to lessen brain development - create more people that cannot think logically, thin the population by disease and sell poisonous alleged food products, fattening big ag's coffers - which explains why so many people are enamored with Bernie... no need to work, I'll just give you free stuff, Sanders - the Saturday morning cartoons with fruit loops generation.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Probably not, this is a fancy event. I have to be on my best behavior.


You'll have to share the wine list... 




> ...when I'm dieting, I just lick the crackers. I lick Doritos when I'm dieting, too.


A friend has an autistic child who does that too. He's not wasteful though, and puts everything back when he's had his share. It's not so bad, as he likes the lesser used or desirable parts. Everyone else gets low sodium chips and crackers. He eats the rind off of watermelon and cantaloupe, and likes to suck the center out of tomatoes. It's a pretty good diet, high in fiber, except he usually washes it down with coffee creamer (flavored hydrogenated oil).

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## farreri

> when I'm dieting, I just lick the crackers. I lick Doritos when I'm dieting, too.


You need to do something about your disordered way of eating.

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## farreri

> *enter the conspiracy theorist*
> The whole low fat high carb diet was designed to lessen brain development


Kind of an ironic theory since the average American diet causes the highest rates of stroke which really lessens brain development!

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## farreri

Here's where the confusion lies. There's been two types of low fat diets that have been recommended. One by high-profile mainstream groups and the other by not-as-well-known groups.

The bad low fat diet is the one that mentioned in the article:




> Professor Iain Broom, from Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen, said in agreement: 'The continuation of a food policy recommending high carbohydrate, low fat, *low calorie intakes* as 'healthy eating' is fatally flawed.


This is the one recommended by mainstream groups:




> Our Meal Planning Guidelines:
> 
> *1550-1650 calories per day* 
> 
> - See more at: http://www.diabetes.org/mfa-recipes/....vQdQP04V.dpuf


The fatal flaw in this low fat version diet is not because it's high in carbs, or low in fat. It's because it's too low in calories.

A healthy low fat diet does not recommend restricting calories.

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## Zippyjuan

Cutting calories too much makes your body think there may be a famine so it slows your metabolism and tries to store more fat to get through it.

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## Suzanimal

> You'll have to share the wine list...


Probably a bunch of hoity toity stuff that come in a bottle with a cork that I can't pronounce, mush less spell.





> A friend has an autistic child who does that too. He's not wasteful though, and puts everything back when he's had his share. It's not so bad, as he likes the lesser used or desirable parts. Everyone else gets low sodium chips and crackers. He eats the rind off of watermelon and cantaloupe, and likes to suck the center out of tomatoes. It's a pretty good diet, high in fiber, except he usually washes it down with coffee creamer (flavored hydrogenated oil).


When I was pregnant, I scraped the middle out of Oreos and put the cookies back for Mr Animal. He didn't appreciate it but I'm not wasteful either so I started crumbling them up on his ice cream.




> You need to do something about your disordered way of eating.


I'm also a shameless double dipper.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Cutting calories too much makes your body think there may be a famine so it slows your metabolism and tries to store more fat to get through it.


This is true^^

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## Suzanimal

> You need to do something about your disordered way of eating.


I just thought of a question...Are Chicken in a Biskit crackers vegan?

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## donnay

> Kind of an ironic theory since the average American diet causes the highest rates of stroke which really lessens brain development!


That because most people are told by the guys in white coats that their cholesterol is too high and to take a statin to lower it.  The cholesterol is what your brain needs, if you do not have it, it will shrink--stroke, dementia and Alzheimers.

Those doctors and hospital doors become revolving because of the low fat/no fat diets people have been told is good for them.

But we have discussed this many time, with you dismissing it--which I am sure you will do again.

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## Working Poor

> Bull$#@!. I eat a high fat diet and I'm not fat. I also adjust my caloric/macronutrient intake according to my activity level. If your claim were true, the Russians would be obese on average-their diet, on average, is very fatty. However, Russians are known for being thin.


Even the veggies I eat most are high fat content. Have you ever had yogurt made with real cream? OMG it is good. I eat real butter(unsalted) lots of olive oil and other nut oils and plain nuts. I won't buy anything that is naturally high in fat that is called "low fat" and I for sure won't eat it.

I have weighed 117 since day after the birth of my child yea even one day after giving birth I could wear my skinny jeans. I did not cut back on fat then either. The only thing that makes me gain weight is alcohol.

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## Suzanimal

> The only thing that makes me gain weight is alcohol.


Yep. You can eat or drink but ya can't do both or you'll definitely put on the weight. I've noticed _overindulging_ in dairy will fatten me up, too.

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## farreri

> I just thought of a question...Are Chicken in a Biskit crackers vegan?


Well no, but that's not what makes these crackers bad. It's loaded with fat.

Ingredients: Enriched Flour, *Soybean Oil And/Or Palm Oil*, Sugar, Salt, Dextrose, *Monoglycerides*, Monosodium Glutamate (Flavor Enhancer), Baking Soda, Onion Powder, *Soy Lecithin* (Emulsifier), Natural Flavor, Dehydrated Cooked Chicken, Cornstarch. 

Amount Per Serving
Total Fat 8 G
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nabisco-Fl...12-oz/10292637


These crackers make a great weight-gaining food.

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## farreri

> Russians are known for being thin.


Wouldn't have anything to do with their socialist food rationing?

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## farreri

> That because most people are told by the guys in white coats that their cholesterol is too high and to take a statin to lower it.  The cholesterol is what your brain needs, if you do not have it, it will shrink--stroke, dementia and Alzheimers.
> 
> Those doctors and hospital doors become revolving because of the low fat/no fat diets people have been told is good for them.
> 
> But we have discussed this many time, with you dismissing it--which I am sure you will do again.


No, it's your ignoring that strokes have been high in this country even before statins and Eskimos on their traditional high "good" fat diet had higher rates of stroke than other groups. Too much saturated food harms endo cells which leads to heart disease and stroke.

There's an easy way to avoid the need for statins, stop eating so much cholesterol rich foods that are also high in saturated fat.

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## Suzanimal

> These crackers make a great weight-gaining food.


That's why I just lick them.

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## Zippyjuan

> Even the veggies I eat most are high fat content. Have you ever had yogurt made with real cream? OMG it is good. I eat real butter(unsalted) lots of olive oil and other nut oils and plain nuts. I won't buy anything that is naturally high in fat that is called "low fat" and I for sure won't eat it.
> 
> I have weighed 117 since day after the birth of my child yea even one day after giving birth I could wear my skinny jeans. I did not cut back on fat then either. The only thing that makes me gain weight is alcohol.


Nuts and oils have good fats (less saturated).  Those are good for you.  You must have a fairly high metabolism (I used to- things have slowed down lately- started in mid 30's).  

If you like a full fat yogurt- check these out.   Best I have ever had. http://www.noosayoghurt.com/



Kinda pricey though.  The grocery store near me sells them for about $2.00- when on sale.  Really creamy.  In Colorado (where they are made) I saw them for about $1.50.

----------


## donnay

> No, it's your ignoring that strokes have been high in this country even before statins and Eskimos on their traditional high "good" fat diet had higher rates of stroke than other groups. Too much saturated food harms endo cells which leads to heart disease and stroke.


And again, dismissing it by pointing to Eskimos.  Well, it doesn't seem like Eskimos are as unhealthy as you make them out to be.

*The Inuit Paradox – High Protein & Fat, No Fruits/Vegetables and yet Lower Heart Disease and Cancer*

Want to know about a group of people who eat primarily only meat and fat, very little fruits and vegetables and are healthier than any other group of people? Well meet the Inuit from the frozen North. They seemed to eat all the things that are blamed for heart disease and cancers (meat and fat) yet somehow had little to no diseases of modern man. Let’s learn a little more about them. Below you will find several resources and reading materials on them (to keep you busy while I do my taxes for the next couple days!). But here are the highlights:

    The Inuit traditional diet offers natural protection against two of the planet’s biggest killers — heart disease and cancer

    Dewailly says the traditional Inuit diet is high in selenium, common to whale skin, and likely explains why prostate cancer is almost unheard of in the north, as are most other cancers. Cardiovascular disease is also rare, likely because the Inuit diet remains rich in wild game. “The traditional Inuit diet is fats and proteins, no sugar at all,” says Dewailly. “It is probably one of the healthiest diets you can have. The human body is built for that.”

Read more:  http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/







> There's an easy way to avoid the need for statins, stop eating so much cholesterol rich foods that are also high in saturated fat.


The thing is (as has been discussed many times before), our bodies need cholesterol to function properly.  Statins are a scam an only cause more problems, as I stated above.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> No, it's your ignoring that strokes have been high in this country even before statins and Eskimos on their traditional high "good" fat diet had higher rates of stroke than other groups. Too much saturated food harms endo cells which leads to heart disease and stroke.
> 
> There's an easy way to avoid the need for statins, stop eating so much cholesterol rich foods that are also high in saturated fat.


Sorry, macronutrients simply don't work that way. Please take a nutrition science class or at least read a basic book about it.

----------


## farreri

> And again, dismissing it by pointing to Eskimos.  Well, it doesn't seem like Eskimos are as unhealthy as you make them out to be.
> 
> *The Inuit Paradox – High Protein & Fat, No Fruits/Vegetables and yet Lower Heart Disease and Cancer*


And lower life expectancy, lower bone density, and higher rates of strokes. Does that really sound healthy too? Heart disease and cancer aren't the only diseases that kill.




> The thing is (as has been discussed many times before), our bodies need cholesterol to function properly.


And as discussed many times before, our bodies MAKE cholesterol, so technically we don't need it from outside sources. Where does meat from herbivores get its cholesterol? 




> Statins are a scam an only cause more problems, as I stated above.


I've never disagreed with you on this.

----------


## farreri

> Sorry, macronutrients simply don't work that way. Please take a nutrition science class or at least read a basic book about it.


Don't work what way?

----------


## donnay

> And lower life expectancy, lower bone density, and higher rates of strokes. Does that really sound healthy too? Heart disease and cancer aren't the only diseases that kill.


Where are the stats they have lower life expectancy?





> And as discussed many times before, our bodies MAKE cholesterol, so technically we don't need it from outside sources. Where does meat from herbivores get its cholesterol?


If you do not feed your body good saturated fats it won't.

References:  
https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8...aturated-fats/
https://authoritynutrition.com/top-9...d-cholesterol/
https://authoritynutrition.com/satur...t-good-or-bad/





> I've never disagreed with you on this.


But you said above, _"There's an easy way to avoid the need for statins, stop eating so much cholesterol rich foods that are also high in saturated fat."_ 

Statins are a scam--period.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Probably a bunch of hoity toity stuff that come in a bottle with a cork* that I can't pronounce, mush less spell.*


Try to pronounce (or spell) this one.  

https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1179259




> *2013 Gundlach Bundschu Sonoma Coast Gewürztraminer*
> 
> SKU #1179259
> Wine Enthusiast
>   From old vines planted on the Mayacamas Mountains, this Gewurz is pungent in lychee and grapefruit, a trace of pepper, ginger and clove hiding beneath the surface. Medium-bodied and dry, it offers a rich interplay between herb and spice plus freshness on the finish.    (10/2014)


(Translation: slightly spicy dry white wine- Franzia is sweeter but this has about 50% more alcohol content- Chillable Red is about 9%- this is over 14% alcohol)

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Where are the stats they have lower life expectancy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do not feed your body good saturated fats it won't.
> 
> References:  
> https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8...aturated-fats/
> ...


http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...ve-longer.html




> Inuit Greenlanders, who historically have had limited access to fruits and vegetables, have the worst longevity statistics in North America. Research from the past and present shows that they die on the average about 10 years younger and have a higher rate of cancer than the overall Canadian population.1
> 
> Similar statistics are available for the high meat-consuming Maasai in Kenya. They eat a diet high in wild hunted meats and have the worst life expectancy in the modern world. Life expectancy is 45 years for women and 42 years for men. African researchers report that, historically, Maasai rarely lived beyond age 60. Adult mortality figures on the Kenyan Maasai show that they have a 50% chance of dying before the age of 59.2



http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...80123d-eng.htm




> For many years, researchers have been unable to properly estimate basic health indicators such as life expectancy at birth for Canada's Inuit population, because of a lack of Aboriginal identifiers on death registrations.
> 
> A new study, published today in Health Reports, partially fills this data gap by using a geographic-based approach to estimate life expectancy for the entire population of Inuit-inhabited areas of Canada.
> 
> The study analysed death records and census data in the four areas of Canada, where 80% of their combined populations are Inuit. These "Inuit-inhabited areas" are: the Inuvialuit region (of Northwest Territories), Nunavut, Nunatsiavut (Labrador) and Nunavik (northern Quebec). The study found that life expectancy in these areas in 2001 was over 12 years less than for Canada as a whole, *a gap that had widened during the previous decade.*
> 
> In 1991,* life expectancy in the Inuit-inhabited areas was about 68 years, 10 years less than for Canada as a whole*. From 1991 to 2001, life expectancy in the Inuit-inhabited areas did not increase, although life expectancy rose by about two years for Canada overall.


More at links.

----------


## farreri

> Where are the stats they have lower life expectancy?


Zippy just posted them.




> If you do not feed your body good saturated fats it won't.


Not true.

"even if you eat foods without cholesterol, the carbs, fats and proteins all break down eventually and release carbon, which your liver turns into cholesterol."
http://health.howstuffworks.com/dise...olesterol1.htm




> authoritynutrition.com


This is a biased low carb site that has to promote drinking lots of coffee to have energy on their recommended low carb diet.  If you look at sites promoting high carb diets, they never promote coffee, but virtually ALL low carb sites do. I wonder why?!




> But you said above, _"There's an easy way to avoid the need for statins, stop eating so much cholesterol rich foods that are also high in saturated fat."_


I should have said the use for statins, not the need as you don't need them even if you want to lower your cholesterol. All you have to do to lower your cholesterol is lower your intake of animal products.




> Statins are a scam--period.


Well since I think too much cholesterol is unhealthy, so I wouldn't technically call them a scam (they do lower cholesterol as advertised), but definitely not needed unless you're lazy or too spoiled to want to reduce your intake of animal foods.

----------


## Origanalist

I have never been cursed with a overweight problem, but then I have always done very physical work. My younger sister has always struggled with her weight but she sits at a desk. Hmmm...

----------


## Zippyjuan

Asians have low rates of cancers and heart disease and live longer that we typically do.  And they don't eat much meat.  Their diet is low fat and lots of vegetables.  

http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/t...nal-asian-diet




> Folks in Asian countries tend to have lower rates of cancer, heart disease, and obesity than Americans, and they typically live longer, too. Researchers suspect that owes largely to their diet:* a low-fat, healthy eating style that emphasizes rice, vegetables, fresh fruit, and fish, with very little red meat*.





> *How does The Traditional Asian Diet work?*
> 
> 
> It depends – there isn’t one Asian diet. Working with the Cornell-China-Oxford Project on Nutrition, Health, and Environment, Oldways, a nonprofit food think tank in Boston, developed a consumer-friendly Asian diet pyramid that revolves around daily consumption of rice, noodles, breads, millet, corn and other whole grains, along with fruits, veggies, legumes, seeds, nuts and vegetable oils. Fish and shellfish (or dairy) are optional each day, and you can have eggs, poultry and something sweet once a week. Red meat is allowed once a month. The pyramid also calls for six glasses of water or tea each day; sake, wine, and beer are OK in moderation. Remember to stay physically active, and you’re set.
> 
> Examples of Asian diet veggies and tubers include: bamboo shoots, bean sprouts, bitter melon, bok choy, carrots, eggplant, galangal, leeks, sweet potatoes, taro root, turnips, and yams. Fruits range from apricots, coconut, and mangoes, to rambutan and tangerines. Oldways suggests getting your grains by focusing on barley, dumplings, naan, buckwheat, rice, and noodles (such as soba, somen, rice, and udon). Examples of fish and seafood are abalone, clams, cockles, eel, mussels, and octopus. And don’t forget herbs and spices like amchoor, basil, clove, masala, mint, turmeric, curry leaves, and fennel.
> 
> Because this is an eating pattern – not a structured diet plan – you’re on your own to figure out how many calories you should eat to lose or maintain your weight, what you’ll do to stay active, and how you’ll shape your Asian menu.
> 
> The Asian diet’s geographical base is broad, spanning Bangladesh, Cambodia, China, India, Indonesia, Japan, Laos, Malaysia, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, North Korea, South Korea, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand and Vietnam, among other countries. Each Asian region has its own distinct flavors and cooking styles, but they all share one food in common: rice. It’s a widespread staple, though it’s prepared and eaten differently from place to place. It’s used, for example, as a main ingredient in treats like cake and candy, fermented to make wine or beer, and offered to the Gods to ensure a good harvest.


It isn't all just genetics either.  As they become more "Americanized" and consume a more "American diet" their health becomes more like the rest of us too.  Tossing soy sauce on vegetables and rice isn't exactly eating an Asian diet.  They also tend to eat a large variety of foods in smaller amounts than we do.




> Even though the Asian diet is linked with weight loss, followers are often compelled to abandon their traditional ways when they move to the United States, conforming instead to the standard American diet. In one study, researchers at the University of California at Berkeley analyzed whether the desire to fit in might cause U.S. immigrant groups to eat less healthy foods. They found that Asian Americans who were questioned about their ability to speak English were three times more likely to name a prototypically American food as their favorite. When their American identity was challenged, they ordered and ate more typically American dishes, consuming 182 extra calories and 12 additional grams of fat per day than they did when their identities weren’t challenged.

----------


## dannno

> Where are the stats they have lower life expectancy?


The ones on welfare who eat a bunch of grains shipped in from the west probably.

----------


## dannno

> Asians have low rates of cancers and heart disease and live longer that we typically do.  And they don't eat much meat.  Their diet is low fat and lots of vegetables.  
> 
> http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/t...nal-asian-diet


Most asians I know love red meat.

----------


## farreri

> Asians have low rates of cancers and heart disease and live longer that we typically do.  And they don't eat much meat.  Their diet is low fat and lots of vegetables.  
> 
> http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/t...nal-asian-diet


And now that they are becoming more wealthy, they are eating more closer to the western diet by eating more meat and dairy and their rate of obesity and diabetes is going through the roof. People just don't want to hear the truth about what diets higher in animal foods will do. I guess when you get used to eating like kings and queens, you don't want to go back closer to eating like peasants.

----------


## Origanalist

> Zippy just posted them.
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> "even if you eat foods without cholesterol, the carbs, fats and proteins all break down eventually and release carbon, which your liver turns into cholesterol."
> http://health.howstuffworks.com/dise...olesterol1.htm
> 
> 
> ...


I had high cholesterol when I was 16. I never paid any attention to it. My older brother was dumb enough to take statins because doctors. He finally stopped though. There isn't even any heart disease  history in our family.

----------


## Zippyjuan

This is one thing I do agree with Donnay on- that statins are powerful and potentially dangerous drugs. They are prescribed much more than they should be.

----------


## farreri

> I had high cholesterol when I was 16. I never paid any attention to it. My older brother was dumb enough to take statins because doctors. He finally stopped though. There isn't even any heart disease  history in our family.


If heart disease is strictly a genetic thing, then the rates would not keep increasing like they are doing.  Yes, I think it's dumb to take statins just like it's dumb to take any shortcut route instead of fixing the root of the problem. If you want to lower your cholesterol, lower your intake of cholesterol-containing foods. It's not exactly rocket science.

----------


## Origanalist

> If heart disease is strictly a genetic thing, then the rates would not keep increasing like they are doing.  Yes, I think it's dumb to take statins just like it's dumb to take any shortcut route instead of fixing the root of the problem. If you want to lower your cholesterol, lower your intake of cholesterol-containing foods. It's not exactly rocket science.


I just don't worry about it.

----------


## donnay

> Zippy just posted them.





> *Although access to stores and Western food has caused the Inuit diet to shift toward westernized eating*, their own historical diet is fascinating. A vegetarian would have a hard time living with a traditional Inuit tribe. Because they live in a barren, cold environment, their diet is heavily based on different meats and only occasionally features some berries and seaweed. Even in modern times, fruit and vegetables are scarce and expensive to import, so they still rely on the land quite a bit.
> 
> Inuit have always been expert hunters that can (and will) capture almost anything. The meats they consume include caribou, narwhal, walrus, seal, and various fish and birds. Even polar bears sometimes appear on the menu. There are many traditional ways to prepare food: drying, cooking in seal oil, or burying it until it ferments naturally. Some foods arent cooked at all. Some consider frozen, raw whitefish a delicacy.
> 
> Although its easy to think that a diet that relies so heavily on meat leads to serious health problems, the Inuit who follow this diet are actually among the healthiest people in the world. This Inuit Paradox has long been the subject of considerable scientific interest.


http://listverse.com/2013/09/09/10-f...about-eskimos/





> Not true.
> 
> "even if you eat foods without cholesterol, the carbs, fats and proteins all break down eventually and release carbon, which your liver turns into cholesterol."
> http://health.howstuffworks.com/dise...olesterol1.htm
> 
> 
> This is a biased low carb site that has to promote drinking lots of coffee to have energy on their recommended low carb diet.  If you look at sites promoting high carb diets, they never promote coffee, but virtually ALL low carb sites do. I wonder why?!






> The body requires insulin to process carbohydrates, but NOT to process fats. And even though fat contains more calories than carbohydrates, it is actually carbohydrates that are stored in the body as fat.
> 
> Before the discovery of insulin, the only treatment for diabetes was a very high-fat, zero-carb diet. Because fats slow down the entry of sugar into the bloodstream, it is good for diabetics, and for everyone, to eat fats together with carbohydrates. Dietary fats assist in lowering the glycemic index of carbohydrate foods and help to stabilize blood sugar.
> 
> Saturated fats do not cause insulin resistance. Trans-fats are the culprits that cause insulin resistance, yet sadly researchers often confuse trans-fats with saturated fats. When people are told to stop eating saturated fats, unfortunately they can end up eating more trans-fats instead.
> 
> Consuming saturated fats (coconut oil, butter, lard, and meat fat) helps to protect against the damaging effects of polyunsaturated vegetable oils and trans-fats, which are relatively new to the human diet.


https://www.coconutsecret.com/saturatedfats2.html





> I should have said the use for statins, not the need as you don't need them even if you want to lower your cholesterol. All you have to do to lower your cholesterol is lower your intake of animal products.
> 
> 
> Well since I think too much cholesterol is unhealthy, so I wouldn't technically call them a scam (they do lower cholesterol as advertised), but definitely not needed unless you're lazy or too spoiled to want to reduce your intake of animal foods.





> It is now believed that cholesterol is not the cause of heart disease but rather a potent antioxidant weapon against free radicals in the blood, and a repair substance that helps heal arterial damage. High serum cholesterol levels often indicate that the body needs cholesterol to protect itself from high levels of free-radical-containing fats. It is needed in a poorly nourished body to actually protect our bodies from a tendency towards heart disease and cancer.
> 
> The cause of heart disease is no longer attributed to saturated fats and cholesterol, but rather a number of factors inherent in modern diets, including an excess consumption of vegetable oils and hydrogenated fats. The onset of pathogenic plaque leading to heart disease, has now been associated with the disappearance of antimicrobial saturated fats from the food supply that once protected us against viruses and bacteria, such as tropical oils like coconut and palm, as well as animal fats like raw dairy, lard, tallow, etc.
> 
> In a study published over a decade ago on cooking oils in the Journal of the Indian Medical Association, a New Delhi hospital compared modern day polyunsaturated oils (such as sunflower, safflower, soy and corn oils) to coconut oil in relation to heart disease and Type II diabetes. The researchers found that while heart disease and diabetes had increased with consumption of polyunsaturated vegetable and seed oils, it decreased with traditional oils like coconut oil.
> 
> Numerous population studies have shown that people living in countries where large quantities of coconut oil and other saturated fats are consumed, have remarkably good cardiovascular health.
> 
> At first this observation confused many researchers, because they did not recognize the difference between medium chain fatty acids (MCFA) and other fats. New research however, has demonstrated that the MCFAs in coconut oil protect against heart disease.


https://www.coconutsecret.com/saturatedfats2.html

----------


## farreri

> https://www.coconutsecret.com


I'll take your arguments more serious if you don't post evidence from commercial sites trying to hype the products they're selling.




> it is actually carbohydrates that are stored in the body as fat.


Then how come *this girl*, who practically only eats carbs--and copious amounts at that, is rail thin?

----------


## donnay

> I'll take your arguments more serious if you don't post evidence from commercial sites trying to hype the products they're selling.


No you won't.  





> *Then how come this girl*, who practically only eats carbs--and copious amounts at that, is rail thin?


She doesn't look healthy to me--she looks malnurioused.  Has no muscle tone. Hair is thin, frizzy and dry.  Her boobs are fake.

----------


## farreri

> No you won't.


Don't be so close minded.




> She doesn't look healthy to me--she looks malnurioused.  Has no muscle tone. Hair is thin, frizzy and dry.  Her boobs are fake.


It's obvious you don't like that girl, probably because she's vegan and preaches a low fat diet, because you didn't even answer my question. 

From the unbiased source you posted (lol), it said "it is actually carbohydrates that are stored in the body as fat." My question was if that is so, how come that Freelee girl is so thin that she looks malnourished to you? Why isn't she morbidly obese from eating more carbs that practically anyone on the planet?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> I'll take your arguments more serious if you don't post evidence from commercial sites trying to hype the products they're selling.
> 
> *
> Then how come this girl, who practically only eats carbs--and copious amounts at that, is rail thin?*


Most likely won the genetic lottery. Same reason some guys put on muscle mass ridiculously esaily (ala Kali Muscle) and some of us are hard-gainers. Outliers don't determine rules. The typical person should stick to a nutrition plan designed for their lifestyle.

----------


## dannno

> Most likely won the genetic lottery. Same reason some guys put on muscle mass ridiculously esaily and some of us are hard-gainers. Outliers don't determine rules. The typical person should stick to a nutrition plan designed for their lifestyle.


That and she probably does do a lot of exercise.. if she ate more fat and protein and less carbs, she would have more muscle tone.

(Before/after paleo)



(Before exercise/diet)

----------


## farreri

> Most likely won the genetic lottery.


Her boyfriend is very lean too on the same high carb diet. She used to be plump when she ate the typical heavy meat and dairy diet the average Australian/American eats while also exercising more than she does now. That doesn't sound like good genes to me. Sounds like it's the right diet.




> Same reason some guys put on muscle mass ridiculously esaily (ala Kali Muscle) and some of us are hard-gainers.


You think Kali Muscle is full natty brah? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## farreri

> if she ate more fat and protein and less carbs, she would have more muscle tone.


You don't think this is good muscle tone?





> As expected after sharing my last pic I was hit with the typical comments of "you're too skinny! Ugh anorexic, boney, I'm concerned, gross eat something!" (particularly on Facebook). These are NOT the legs of someone starving themselves who can barely walk around the block! These are the muscles of someone who has excellent blood tests, is strong, fit, and healthy and who NEVER restricts calories. Learn the difference before looking like a jealous out of shape hater #societyctfu
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/TheBananaGi...type=3&theater

----------


## dannno

> You don't think this is good muscle tone?



It's weird, it's like her quads are huge, like the hugest I've ever seen on a normal looking female, but every other muscle on her body is tiny..

----------


## farreri

> It's weird, it's like her quads are huge, like the hugest I've ever seen on a normal looking female, but every other muscle on her body is tiny..


She's a cyclist with a classic cyclist's physique; muscly legs with a thin upper body.

----------


## donnay

*The fats that will keep you slim: Why you should be eating avocado, yoghurts and LARD (and putting margarine in the bin)*

By Emily Chan and Anucyia Victor for MailOnline
Published: 04:01 EST, 26 May 2016

The debate over the amount of fat in our diet has just become more confusing thanks to a new report. 

After a study released earlier this week suggested that low fat diets are doing more harm than good, many people who thought they were health conscious are now contemplating an entirely new eating plan embracing the very ingredient they believed was the enemy. 

So which fats should we embrace, and which are still no-nos? FEMAIL talked to the experts to find out. 

The report by the National Obesity Forum and the Public Health Collaboration said the advice to cut back on butter, cream, cheese and other types of fatty foods is wrong. 

It states: 'Eating a diet rich in full-fat dairy – such as cheese, milk and yoghurt – can actually lower the chance of obesity.

'The most natural and nutritious foods available – meat, fish, eggs, dairy products, nuts, seeds, olives, avocados – all contain saturated fat.' 

The authors behind the report say saturated fat does not cause heart disease, while full fat diary can actually protect the heart.  

But nutritionist Sarah Flower told FEMAIL that the report does not give us a free pass to eat all fatty foods.

'We have all been conditioned to avoid fats since the 1970s so to suddenly hear that fat is good, causes confusion,' she said.

Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/fo...fats-slim.html

----------


## Zippyjuan

Reposting the article in the OP?

----------


## donnay

> Reposting the article in the OP?


Not the same article.

----------


## Zippyjuan

It is another source of the exact same story. Both citing the same source.  

The link you just posted: 




> The report by the National Obesity Forum and the Public Health Collaboration said the advice to cut back on butter, cream, cheese and other types of fatty foods is wrong.


the OP:




> In a damning report that accuses major public health bodies of colluding with the food industry, the National Obesity Forum and the Public Health Collaboration said most of what we are told about healthy eating is wrong.


Also published within a couple of days from each other.

----------


## donnay

> It is another source of the exact same story. 
> 
> The link you just posted: 
> 
> 
> 
> the OP:


Uh huh...

----------


## farreri

The meat, dairy, and egg associations have been spending many millions in the last couple decades to skew science for these kinds of headline news to keep confusing people about the truth. They are funding most of these pro-fat studies which is such a conflict of interest.

----------


## Working Poor

> Nuts and oils have good fats (less saturated).  Those are good for you.  You must have a fairly high metabolism (I used to- things have slowed down lately- started in mid 30's).  
> 
> If you like a full fat yogurt- check these out.   Best I have ever had. http://www.noosayoghurt.com/
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda pricey though.  The grocery store near me sells them for about $2.00- when on sale.  Really creamy.  In Colorado (where they are made) I saw them for about $1.50.


I just buy cream from the local dairy and make my own and put fruit in it if I want when I eat it.

----------


## Zippyjuan

That sounds good too!

----------


## donnay

> The meat, dairy, and egg associations have been spending many millions in the last couple decades to skew science for these kinds of headline news to keep confusing people about the truth. They are funding most of these pro-fat studies which is such a conflict of interest.


What you seemingly miss through this whole thread is that for over 40 years the science got behind low fat/no fat diets and we have seen chronic illnesses and obesity boom.

I don't need some scientists who were paid by some special interest group to tell me their theory has failed miserably.

It's really sad how basic common sense has taken a back seat in this country because some scientist said, "Blah, blah, blah..."

----------


## Zippyjuan

What does the average American who is obese actually eat?  Is it low fat with lots of fruits and vegetables?  Is the recommendations which failed?  Or is it the failure of people to follow them?   

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philp...iet-sad-charts

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> What does the average American who is obese actually eat?  Is it low fat with lots of fruits and vegetables?  Is the recommendations which failed?  Or is it the failure of people to follow them?   
> 
> http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philp...iet-sad-charts


That article is not specific to obese people. It does not even define "obese". I have known many rail-thin people who regularly eat what the article calls crap food.

----------


## farreri

> What you seemingly miss through this whole thread is that for over 40 years the science got behind low fat/no fat diets and we have seen chronic illnesses and obesity boom.


Zippy just posted basically what I was going to say, how many of these overweight people were actually following a true low fat diet?




> I don't need some scientists who were paid by some special interest group to tell me their theory has failed miserably.


The science has been skewed by the big meat, dairy, and egg industry who've been funding a lot of these studies are bankrolling the scientists involved. You guys always rail against big agra. You really think big meat/dairy/egg industry has their hands clean?!




> It's really sad how basic common sense has taken a back seat in this country because some scientist said, "Blah, blah, blah..."


Common sense about our anatomy tells us we're supposed by eat plant-based. We have long intestinal tracks like herbivores. We have teeth closest to herbivores. We don't have claws and aren't very fast compared to hunter species.  We can't make Vitamin C which is found abundant in plant sources. And the rest of the great ape family we're a part of are plant-based eaters.

You're being suckered by the meat, dairy, and egg industries.

Got to ask, what can you eat on a no-fat diet?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Zippy just posted basically what I was going to say, how many of these overweight people were actually following a true low fat diet?
> 
> 
> The science has been skewed by the big meat, dairy, and egg industry who've been funding a lot of these studies are bankrolling the scientists involved. You guys always rail against big agra. You really think big meat/dairy/egg industry has their hands clean?!
> 
> 
> Common sense about our anatomy tells us we're supposed by eat plant-based. We have long intestinal tracks like herbivores. We have teeth closest to herbivores. We don't have claws and aren't very fast compared to hunter species.  We can't make Vitamin C which is found abundant in plant sources. And the rest of the great ape family we're a part of are plant-based eaters.
> 
> You're being suckered by the meat, dairy, and egg industries.
> ...


Nonsense. Please attend a nutrition science class based on modern, proven science. You don't understand macronutrients. Your "common sense" may be common, but it's also wrong (for most people-and all but a few active people who won the genetic lottery).

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## Lindsey

My policy:  just eat as much 'real' food as I possibly can and ignore all studies/rhetoric, etc.. Everyone has a viewpoint on nutrition and none of us know which viewpoint is best, and probably none of them is universally better than the rest.   Eat when your hungry and stop stressing over food.  Your body will thank you.

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## heavenlyboy34

> My policy:  just eat as much 'real' food as I possibly can and ignore all studies/rhetoric, etc.. Everyone has a viewpoint on nutrition and none of us know which viewpoint is best, and probably none of them is universally better than the rest.   Eat when your hungry and stop stressing over food.  Your body will thank you.


Cool policy, bro.

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## donnay

> The science has been skewed by the big meat, dairy, and egg industry who've been funding a lot of these studies are bankrolling the scientists involved. You guys always rail against big agra. You really think big meat/dairy/egg industry has their hands clean?!


I am sure there is skewing on both sides.  Big Agra has the advantages since they have the USDA to be their attack dog too.  I am not talking about factory farm food.  I am talking about clean food, that is raised the way they are supposed to be raised and aren't fed chemical-laden grains and given antibiotics and steroids.





> Common sense about our anatomy tells us we're supposed by eat plant-based. We have long intestinal tracks like herbivores. We have teeth closest to herbivores. We don't have claws and aren't very fast compared to hunter species.  We can't make Vitamin C which is found abundant in plant sources. And the rest of the great ape family we're a part of are plant-based eaters.


That's not common sense, we do have canine teeth.  Also if you believe in the Bible then you would know that the Creator made us to eat meat.  Leviticus 11  KJV




> You're being suckered by the meat, dairy, and egg industries.


I cannot be a sucker to that industry, I already explained my position above.





> Got to ask, what can you eat on a no-fat diet?


No fat is fat-free.





> Bagels
> 
> 
> 
> Lenders Brand:  Garlic, Onion and Plain
> 
> Thomas New York Style Bagels Plain
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.free-fad-diets.com/a-list...ds-to-buy.html

And people wonder why so many people are obese.

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## Zippyjuan

> I am sure there is skewing on both sides.  Big Agra has the advantages since they have the USDA to be their attack dog too.  I am not talking about factory farm food.  I am talking about clean food, that is raised the way they are supposed to be raised and aren't fed chemical-laden grains and given antibiotics and steroids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *That's not common sense, we do have canine teeth.  Also if you believe in the Bible then you would know that the Creator made us to eat meat.*  Leviticus 11  KJV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our teeth and our digestive system are very different from that of carnivores.  We are omnivores- designed to eat a wide variety of foods. Our canines are too small to rip animal flesh to eat.  We can eat meat but are not optimized for it.

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## donnay

*Eat fat to stay slim: Sceptical? So was SARAH VINE until she tried a diet revolution that she's kept up for over a year*

By Sarah Vine for the Daily Mail
Published: 16:53 EST, 12 June 2016 

First of all, a disclaimer: I’d never say I was perfect. 

I would not be seen dead in a bikini and the last time my upper arms saw the light of day, the Queen Mum (gawd bless her) was still knocking back pink gins and having a flutter on the 3.45 at Aintree.

My spaghetti ain’t courgetti - and though I try my best to be a sugar-free zone, the occasional scoop of ice cream does, I’m ashamed to say, find its way into my gullet. Washed down, more often than not, with a nice glass of wine.

That said, knocking on 50, fully menopausal and with a long-term underactive thyroid condition (in weight loss terms, a bit like running the London Marathon with a small elephant strapped to your ankles), I am in better physical nick than I’ve been for more than a decade.

I still have too much visceral fat (the technical term for a spare tyre), but the rest of me, when I scrutinise my carcass in a full-length mirror, is... well, it’s OK. Not going to win any beauty pageants, I’ll grant you, but presentable.

To what do I owe this very pleasing transformation? 

To nutritionist and personal trainer Zana Morris, an affable Irishwoman who, long before the National Obesity Forum (NOF) announced that eating fat could help keep weight off, introduced me via her revolutionary book - The High Fat Diet - to a way of eating that, despite my persistent cheating and ongoing lack of discipline, has transformed my shape.

Just to recap: two weeks ago, the NOF published a report that sent seismic waves through the diet industry and got a lot of people very hot under the collar.

In a nutshell, the charity overturned decades of perceived wisdom about the benefits of a low-fat diet in preventing heart disease and high cholesterol. 

Instead of insisting on a low-calorie, low-fat diet, the authors of the report claimed that a diet rich in ‘good’ fats - avocado, cheese, fresh meat and dairy products - could help protect the heart and lower levels of obesity.

In particular, anything labelled ‘low-fat’, ‘lite’ or ‘low cholesterol’ was to be avoided like the plague, and people should return to eating natural, unadulterated foods.

What ought to have triggered an interesting debate instead triggered various knee-jerk reactions.

Public Health England (PHE) dismissed the report as an ‘opinion’ paper and called it irresponsible and misleading. 

It reiterated its advice to ‘base meals on starchy carbohydrates, especially wholegrains’, ‘eat at least five portions of a variety of fruit and vegetables each day’ and ‘cut back on food and drink high in saturated fat, salt, sugar and calories’.

This advice is not wholly wrong, of course. But it is stubbornly resistant to certain aspects of the NOF report that suggest a more intelligent approach to tackling obesity is needed.

Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...evolution.html

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## Carlybee

I eat real butter..lots of nuts and seeds,avocados, olive oil. My LDL is 104. Working to get it below 100. My doctor said he can't believe I lowered it without statins.

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## Zippyjuan

Those are mostly healthy oils (less saturated).  Good for you!

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## Zippyjuan

> I am sure there is skewing on both sides.  Big Agra has the advantages since they have the USDA to be their attack dog too.  I am not talking about factory farm food.  I am talking about clean food, that is raised the way they are supposed to be raised and aren't fed chemical-laden grains and given antibiotics and steroids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not common sense, we do have canine teeth.  Also if you believe in the Bible then you would know that the Creator made us to eat meat.  Leviticus 11  KJV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You need to carefully read labels on things labeled "fat free" or "Sugar free".   If it contains less than three grams per serving- not zero.  What some things do is reduce the serving size.  The most obvious offender is "I Can't Believe It Is Not Butter" spray.  Label says "Fat Free" right on it so it must be- right?  The second ingredient is oil. That is fat  (first is water).  What about serving size?  "One spray".  Who uses just one spray of it?  One spray qualifies for the "fat free" label but two sprays does not so they stick with one spray (it used to list a suggested serving of 1.25 sprays- how do you get a quarter of a spray?) .  They claim over 1,000 servings per tiny bottle!  http://www.icantbelieveitsnotbutter....l-butter-spray

Coffee creamers are another. Try Coffeemate Vanilla fat free. Serving size is one tablespoon. 
Regular version lists water, sugar, and vegetable oil as the first three ingredients. 
Fat Free lists water, sugar, and vegetable oil as the first three ingredients. If it has vegetable oil is it fat free?  
Sugar free?  Water, CORN SYRUP (a sugar), and vegetable oil.  Not really sugar free either. 

Salt an issue? Again, labels can be deceiving.  I was once checking labels on chili.  Canned things like chili normally have tons of salt so no surprise large amounts were found.  But one said "lower sodium" yet it listed more salt than some of the other varieties of the same brands. 

You can't go by what it says on the front of the package. 

https://www.coffee-mate.com/Products...1-24bfac27e69a  Click on "Nutritional information" for each product at the link).


As for fat free items like the ones in the list above- some are substituting more sugar for the fat to keep the flavor.  Not necessarily better for you. Sugar free items can use either more fats or artificial sweeteners.

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## farreri

> In a damning report that accuses major public health bodies of colluding with the food industry, the *National Obesity Forum* and the Public Health Collaboration said most of what we are told about healthy eating is wrong.
> 
> And their highly controversial report cites studies which show *a higher-fat, lower-carb diet to be superior*.
> 
> Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-calories.html


This escaped everybody. Look who the National Obesity Forum is funded by, groups that basically all benefit from people being fat and sick, including Big pHARMa, a surgical company, the meat industry, a major weightloss company, and an artificial sweetener company.




> Our Partners
> 
>     All-Party Parliamentary Group on Obesity
>     Department of Health
>     National Institute of Clinical Excellence
>     Royal College of Paediatricians
>     Association for the Study of Obesity
>     National Audit Office
>     Korean Academy of Family Physicians
> ...

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## farreri

* Obesity charity board members quit in dietary advice row*

Most members of UK’s National Obesity Forum board resign after report urges people to eat fat and stop counting calories

More than half the board of Britain’s leading anti-obesity charity have resigned over its controversial dietary advice, which has led to internal rows and condemnation from government public health officials.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...dietary-advice

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## heavenlyboy34

> * Obesity charity board members quit in dietary advice row*
> 
> Most members of UK’s National Obesity Forum board resign after report urges people to eat fat and stop counting calories
> 
> More than half the board of Britain’s leading anti-obesity charity have resigned over its controversial dietary advice, which has led to internal rows and condemnation from government public health officials.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/society/...dietary-advice


Meh, doesn't mean much. "Diets" that require counting calories don't work for the typical person. They work for atheletes and the like. Sounds like the NOF is upset more about seeming "scientific" than pragmatic and practical. More power to them if that's their goal.

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