# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Thomas Massie Forum >  Thomas Massie, forum member & elected official, is running a winnable race; let's help!

## Austin

Thomas Massie is an active member of the forums. He has donated to Ron and Rand, and worked hard to get Rand elected in 2010. He was also elected to a County Judge Executive in 2010. In the first nine months of his administration, he eliminated enough wasteful government spending to pay his first three years salary as Judge Executive.

He is now running for Congress in an open primary. The district is heavily Republican, meaning a victory in the primary all but ensures victory in November.

Massie is great on fiscal policy. And like Ron, he understands the importance of protecting the Constitution and our civil liberties:




> Thomas is opposed to ObamaCare, the Patriot Act, any new firearms restrictions, the intrusive actions of the Transportation Security Administration, indefinite detention of American citizens without trial, internet censorship, and all other infringements on our liberties by the federal government.


He just launched his new website, so let's celebrate by donating!

Thomas Massie for US Congress  Donate Here

*Thank you for your generous donation!
Amount: $20.12
Transaction  ID: EKVP3D2B5935
Transaction date/time: 2012-01-20 13:48:58

*P.S.
Don't have any money to donate? Like his Facebook page instead!

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## KCIndy

Great!

We need more candidates on the local level.  Lots more.  That's how real, permanent changes in favor of liberty will be enacted.  BUMP for freedom, and I'll be back on in a bit to toss in a donation.

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## KCIndy

Wish it was more....  :/





> Amount: 	$25.00
> Transaction ID: 	EDMP3D449BD2
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-20 15:22:07

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## Cowlesy

Wish I could, however I can't because he's a local official.

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## BamaFanNKy

> Wish I could, however I can't because he's a local official.


Huh?

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## Austin

Any other takers? Surely we can do more than $45...

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## MRoCkEd

Absolutely. Count me in soon.

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## Schiff_FTW

> Wish I could, however I can't because he's a local official.




Is there some kind of conflict of interest with your job or something?

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## trey4sports

is he a non-interventionist? Just curious.

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## Brett85

People probably won't think this is important, but what's his position on the abortion issue?

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## JacobG18

We should tweet Judge Nap about his run.

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## Sweman

He doesn't support Ron Paul for the GOP nomination.

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## Aden

1.) There is no way to mail a check to him, for those who prefer to do so.
2.) There is no way to contact the campaign via phone, email or form on website.

Fix pls thx.

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## Mini-Me

> He doesn't support Ron Paul for the GOP nomination.


Link?

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## Jeremy

> 1.) There is no way to mail a check to him, for those who prefer to do so.
> 2.) There is no way to contact the campaign via phone, email or form on website.
> 
> Fix pls thx.


 The website just went up, so give them some time.

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## Sweman

> Link?


08:50



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=feYFmHFPRhY

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## YankeesJunkie

Interesting candidate, however his plan to balance the budget is too modest especially considering how much the deficit is.

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## Jeremy

> Interesting candidate, however his plan to balance the budget is too modest especially considering how much the deficit is.


 The plan is supported by the libertarian block in Congress.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

> He doesn't support Ron Paul for the GOP nomination.
> 
> 8:50

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## MRoCkEd

Looks like he was nervous about being pigeonholed into being a Ron Paul supporter when he needs coalitions to win the election. I'm sure Thomas will come here and clarify that.

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## Schiff_FTW

> 08:50


So he says debt is our biggest national security risk, but supports the empire that is largely responsible for it? OK...

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## Jeremy

> Ouch. There are plenty of better candidates to support IMO.


 Lol, not at all.

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## YankeesJunkie

> The plan is supported by the libertarian block in Congress.


Cutting 1% of federal spending per year is definitely better than 0, but considering how much could and needs to be cut right away 1% just does not seem aggressive enough when there 70 billion to cut from the Dept. of Education and foreign aid which is 4% of the federal budget right there.

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## GeorgiaAvenger

I confess I am moving away from Ron's foreign policy just as Thomas appears to. But I am not moving towards somebody else's foreign policy either.

But even if Massie is just playing politics, good for him.

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## Jeremy

> Cutting 1% of federal spending per year is definitely better than 0, but considering how much could and needs to be cut right away 1% just does not seem aggressive enough when there 70 billion to cut from the Dept. of Education and foreign aid which is 4% of the federal budget right there.


 He said cut foreign aid in the video.  The guy is an active member here, I think he knows what real cuts are.

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## Jeremy

> So he says debt is our biggest national security risk, but supports the empire that is largely responsible for it? OK...


 Um when did he say that? O_O  Did you even watch the interview?  He said end foreign aid: stop building other countries while we can't rebuild our own.

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## SpicyTurkey

> 08:50
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=feYFmHFPRhY


I have talked to him numerous times before, but his answer concerning Ron Paul is troubling. I hope he clarifies his positions (that will ultimately decide my donation).

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## Sweman

> He said cut foreign aid in the video.  *The guy is an active member here*, I think he knows what real cuts are.


And still he doesn't endorse Ron Paul for president?

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## MRoCkEd

> So he says debt is our biggest national security risk, but supports the empire that is largely responsible for it? OK...


All he said was he doesn't agree with all of them. Neither does Rand. I'm sure he is very similar; he echoed Ron's view of Afghanistan in a recent interview.

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## Jeremy

> And still he doesn't endorse Ron Paul for president?


 http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4067146

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## YankeesJunkie

> He said cut foreign aid in the video.  The guy is an active member here, I think he knows what real cuts are.


He is definitely an attractive candidate who would benefit Congress, however the "penny plan"  is too modest and if he would explain other cuts that he would like to make it may enlighten me.

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## Sola_Fide

> 08:50
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=feYFmHFPRhY


Yeah, he was iffy on Ron...but in the next sentence he said we should stop all foreign aid.

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## SpicyTurkey

I do understand his hesitance about endorsing a candidate. After all he is running for an office too, and his support of a particular candidate might turn people off. We all know who he really supports. Lets leave it at that. I will donate to him after all. GOOD LUCK THOMAS!

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## Jeremy

> He is definitely an attractive candidate who would benefit Congress, however the "penny plan"  is too modest and if he would explain other cuts that he would like to make it may enlighten me.


You are being far too critical of a guy who is running on a platform of less spending.  Just because he doesn't bring up every single thing he wants to cut in a 10 minute video, you think there's a problem?  It's a plan that Rand promotes and I'm sure Ron supports as well, by the way.  Even Ron's plan in his POTUS campaign is _self_-described as modest.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

So this guy is the best non-incumbent "liberty candidate" for the U.S. House?  Is B.J. Lawson running again?

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## GeorgiaAvenger

> So this guy is the best non-incumbent "liberty candidate" for the U.S. House?  Is B.J. Lawson running again?


Do you plan on changing things by electing one liberty candidate?

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## SpicyTurkey

> So this guy is the best non-incumbent "liberty candidate" for the U.S. House?  Is B.J. Lawson running again?


B.J. Will win for sure if he decides to run again. I have a feeling. Thirds the charm.

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## Brett85

So this guy is a member here but disagrees with Ron's foreign policy views and doesn't necessarily support him for President?

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## Adrock

The question wasn't if he endorsed RP. The interviewer asked if RP was the presidential candidate he agreed with the most. He pretty much gave the same answer Rand does.

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## Jeremy

> So this guy is a member here but disagrees with Ron's foreign policy views and doesn't necessarily support him for President?


 Please wait for him to explain instead of criticizing him for one of his first TV interviews.




> The question wasn't if he endorsed RP. The interviewer asked if RP was the presidential candidate he agreed with the most. He pretty much gave the same answer Rand did.


this

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## helmuth_hubener

This entire interview could have been given by:

Paul Ryan
Chris Christie
Scott Walker
Marco Rubio
Newt Gingrich
Mitt Romney

Sorry, but if he's libertarian, or even Constitutionalist or anti-establishment, or even in any way different than a typical Repugnican, he is deep undercover.  I'll trust Rand, but I'm not going to trust someone just because they have a forum account.  No red meat rhetoric nor track-record?  Fine.  No help from me.  Good luck duping the masses into supporting your wildly freedom-loving self, or in being a typical meaningless politician.  Either way.  Because _I_ have no way of telling which it will be.

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## Jeremy

> This entire interview could have been given by:
> 
> Paul Ryan
> Chris Christie
> Scott Walker
> Marco Rubio
> Newt Gingrich
> Mitt Romney
> 
> Sorry, but if he's libertarian, or even Constitutionalist or anti-establishment, or even in any way different than a typical Repugnican, he is deep undercover.  I'll trust Rand, but I'm not going to trust someone just because they have a forum account.  No red meat rhetoric nor track-record?  Fine.  No help from me.  Good luck duping the masses into supporting your wildly freedom-loving self, or in being a typical meaningless politician.  Either way.  Because _I_ have no way of telling which it will be.


 Some of us here know him personally and have talked with him over the years he has been here.  So why don't you trust your fellow RPFers, who by the way are a lot of the 07ers and old timers, defending him.  This is one of the first times he has been interviewed on TV and I don't think you should be using it against him.

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## Sola_Fide

Geoff Davis' endorsement is going to be crucial in this race.  He is very well-liked in District 4.  Maybe Thomas is angling for that endorsement.  


If I were running in this district, I wouldn't want to be painted into the "Ron Paul corner" in regards to the issues.  Like it or not, in Northern Kentucky, the "kook" meme is still strong.  I would have no problem fashioning myself as a Rand Paul fiscal conservative.  That is how the nominee is going to win this thing.  Geoff had a pretty decent fiscal conservative record.

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## Mini-Me

> Some of us here know him personally and have talked with him over the years he has been here.  So why don't you trust your fellow RPFers, who by the way are a lot of the 07ers and old timers, defending him.  This is one of the first times he has been interviewed on TV and I don't think you should be using it against him.


Argh.  I suppose he's a solid improvement over current politicians, based on the secondhand accounts that he's a forum member, from people who know him.  I don't know him.  I wish him well, and I would probably vote for him...but I'm not going to trip all over myself to wholeheartedly support and donate to a guy without the spine to openly support Ron Paul.  In contrast, Tom Davis had the courage to put his neck out, and he's not even an RPF's member.  Those are the kind of guys we really need, and those are the kind of guys we should focus our efforts on supporting.

Massie sounds like a good guy, but I can't get excited about sheepishness.  Rand plays politics, but he led a one-man filibuster when he needed to, and he's still out campaigning his ass off for Ron.  People have valid reasons to criticize him, but I can appreciate his approach.  Ron's plan is self-described as modest (and it is, compared to where we SHOULD be), but it's still totally radical compared to the status quo.  Massie suggests moving in the right direction, but calling his pace modest seems to be an understatement; I'd call it more like "glacial."  This country may very well be over by the time a 1%/year plan has made a real dent.  Besides, are we to reduce the number of innocent people we bomb by 1% every year too?

Moreover, think about the way compromise works:  One side offers a proposal, the other side counters, and the final agreement will be somewhere between the two positions.  Massie's timid "baby step" proposals are basically coming from a position of weakness.  We're finally beginning to win the battle for hearts and minds, and we're to the point now where the public's openness to our message rests on "social proof."  In other words, the more that people see others who take Ron Paul seriously, the more they'll begin to recognize it's socially acceptable and give his platform a fair hearing themselves.  Outside the national media, we're already past the "political leper" stage; now is NOT the time to backpedal.

It goes without saying that Massie is doing more for liberty than I am, so I'm in no position to crap on him.  That said, I get excited about Ron because of his passion, his principles, and his unrivaled courage.  I can also get behind Rand, because he's close enough to make a real difference...but if you're asking me to spend real money on Thomas Massie when I can give it to Ron Paul or Glen Bradley...no way.  I believe that an exceptional amount of courage and self-confidence is necessary to survive in politics without becoming assimilated by the corrupt establishment...and I'm not seeing that in Massie right now.  I hope he changes my mind someday, and I hope I can get into a position where I can do better someday instead of just criticizing from my armchair.

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## Jeremy

Well all I can say is wait to see if he clarifies his opinions on Ron.

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

I am proud that Thomas is taking a stand in KY and will do what I can to support him even if it means going to KY this summer to campaign for him or with him.

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## trey4sports

that is really disappointing. Way to shun your base, dude.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> I am proud that Thomas is taking a stand in KY and will do what I can to support him even if it means going to KY this summer to campaign for him or with him.


Work for Karen Kwiatkowski, you won't have to travel very far to do so, and you'll be supporting someone who actually push for a harder platform than the one Ron Paul himself is running on.




> So this guy is the best non-incumbent "liberty candidate" for the U.S. House?  Is B.J. Lawson running again?


Karen Kwiatkowski. B.J. Lawson and John Dennis would be close behind.

It is patently absurd to expect any of us diehard Ron Paul supporters to support someone who openly rejected the central platform to Ron Paul's presidential message. This is like saying "I'm going to get death metal into the mainstream," then promoting Killswitch Engage while disparaging "noisy" blast beats and "obnoxious growly" guttural vocals. Completely self-defeating, and will yield zero results downstream.

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## Gage

Thomas is genuinely a friend of liberty. He will represent the movement well in Congress, and continue the fight that Ron Paul started. I have met him in person several times, and I hope he will eventually win the support of these forums.

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## Gage

Also, here is an excerpt from "The Tea Party Goes to Washington" by Senator Rand Paul:




> Thomas and Rhonda Massie grew up in Lewis County. They excelled in school and eventually ended up at MIT. The Massies invented software involving virtual reality, which has been useful in robotic surgery, and formed a company that became a financial success. The Massies would eventually sell their company and move back to Kentucky. *Thomas and Rhonda were big fans of Ron Paul and became early supporters of mine.* It was a pleasure to meet them and I was humbled by their patriotism and concern for our future. *Thomas was one of the many people who were motivated to run for office because of my father's presidential campaign.* He ended up running for judge executive of Lewis County. He won.

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## GopBlackList

The reason we love Ron Paul is his courage to say things that are not politically proper for a certain crowd. He tells it like it is. If this Massie guy is too timid to support a candidate that he supposedly he likes, then he's just like the other politicians in the Republican party.

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## thomas-in-ky



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## CaseyJones

I endorse Thomas Massie

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## Adrock

Why hasn't he maxed out? ; )

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## BamaFanNKy

> The reason we love Ron Paul is his courage to say things that are not politically proper for a certain crowd. He tells it like it is. If this Massie guy is too timid to support a candidate that he supposedly he likes, then he's just like the other politicians in the Republican party.


STFU and donate.

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## thomas-in-ky

http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/2011...great-man.html

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## low preference guy

there is a way to avoid endorsing Ron Paul without criticizing him. massie could've just answered the question with "I'll endorse the nominee" without saying anything bad about RP's foreign policy. if he was asked if he supported Ron's foreign policy, he could've said "which part?". if he was asked something specific and wanted to be vague, he could've said "it's worth debating".

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## BamaFanNKy

> there is a way to avoid endorsing Ron Paul without criticizing him. massie could've just answered the question with "I'll endorse the nominee" without saying anything bad about RP's foreign policy. if he was asked if he supported Ron's foreign policy, he could've said "which part?". if he was asked something specific and wanted to be vague, he could've said "it's worth debating".

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## MRoCkEd

> 


A picture's worth 1,000 words.

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## BamaFanNKy

Yeah, how do we know the candidate supports Ron. He could be a plant by the establishment to join the board in September of 2009. Hold events for Rand, donate to Rand and Ron, promote Ron on his blog, Run for office for County Judge, Cause Geoff Davis to retire and then win to help the establishment bring in the NWO....

Seriously, the purity test on here..... it's baffling.

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## Jeremy

> Yeah, how do we know the candidate supports Ron. He could be a plant by the establishment to join the board in September of 2009. Hold events for Rand, donate to Rand and Ron, promote Ron on his blog, Run for office for County Judge, Cause Geoff Davis to retire and then win to help the establishment bring in the NWO....
> 
> Seriously, the purity test on here..... it's baffling.


 It's amazing how quick some of the members are at jumping on our candidates.  Let alone our candidates that are fellow members!

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## BamaFanNKy

> It's amazing how quick some of the members are at jumping on our candidates.  Let alone our candidates that are fellow members!


No wonder we lose in the long run.

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## trey4sports

> there is a way to avoid endorsing Ron Paul without criticizing him. massie could've just answered the question with "I'll endorse the nominee" without saying anything bad about RP's foreign policy. if he was asked if he supported Ron's foreign policy, he could've said "which part?". if he was asked something specific and wanted to be vague, he could've said "it's worth debating".


This. It's really baffling to me as to WHY he would do that. 




> Yeah, how do we know the candidate supports Ron. He could be a plant by the establishment to join the board in September of 2009. Hold events for Rand, donate to Rand and Ron, promote Ron on his blog, Run for office for County Judge, Cause Geoff Davis to retire and then win to help the establishment bring in the NWO....
> 
> Seriously, the purity test on here..... it's baffling.


Look, I don't doubt that he supports Ron. I don't think anyone doubts that. He really threw Ron under the bus though. I understand that Ron is somewhat toxic to average GOP folks but there is no way I would try to defend his words there. He specifically points out he doesn't agree with Ron's foreign policy, without even being asked about foreign policy and then wouldn't even go on to say he agrees with Ron the most out of the current candidates!

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## BamaFanNKy

> This. It's really baffling to me as to WHY he would do that. 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I don't doubt that he supports Ron. I don't think anyone doubts that. He really threw Ron under the bus though. I understand that Ron is somewhat toxic to average GOP folks but there is no way I would try to defend his words there. He specifically points out he doesn't agree with Ron's foreign policy, without even being asked about foreign policy and then wouldn't even go on to say he agrees with Ron the most out of the current candidates!


Sorry, to come out and endorse a POTUS candidate when you are running is dumb. Some of you still act like political amateurs.

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## realtonygoodwin

> The reason we love Ron Paul is his courage to say things that are not politically proper for a certain crowd. He tells it like it is. If this Massie guy is too timid to support a candidate that he supposedly he likes, then he's just like the other politicians in the Republican party.


Perhaps that is why YOU like him, but I don't think you can speak for all of us.

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## Brett85

> Yeah, how do we know the candidate supports Ron. He could be a plant by the establishment to join the board in September of 2009. Hold events for Rand, donate to Rand and Ron, promote Ron on his blog, Run for office for County Judge, Cause Geoff Davis to retire and then win to help the establishment bring in the NWO....
> 
> Seriously, the purity test on here..... it's baffling.


What's baffling is that this guy would donate money to Ron and then criticize his foreign policy views and refuse to say that he supports him.

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## trey4sports

> Sorry, to come out and endorse a POTUS candidate when you are running is dumb. *Some of you still act like political amateurs.*




I'm assuming that you've run many successful campaigns then, right?

 I mean, you're a political dynamo, right? 

You wouldn't happen to be a keyboard-jockey who works a 9-5 and happens to think he knows more than he really does, right?





It's not meant to be an insult or to start a pissing match, but get off your high horse.

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## Jeremy

> What's baffling is that this guy would donate money to Ron and then criticize his foreign policy views and refuse to say that he supports him.


 He didn't criticize his foreign policy views.  He was trying to not talk about the POTUS race and was just saying he doesn't agree with Ron 100%.  I think it's quite obvious he supports Ron.

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## Adrock

Am I watching the same video? Where did he criticize RP's foreign policy?

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## BamaFanNKy

> I'm assuming that you've run many successful campaigns then, right?
> 
>  I mean, you're a political dynamo, right? 
> 
> You wouldn't happen to be a keyboard-jockey who works a 9-5 and happens to think he knows more than he really does, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm 3-0. Mayor race, Congressional and worked partially on a Governor campaign. My horse is high because some of you are just trying to do purity tests.

Also, the high horse is criticizing a guy from your keyboard who puts his life out there for liberty.

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## Austin

Massie has donated a lot to Ron, and he's already shown his disdain for legislation like NDAA/SOPA/PATRIOT Act, etc. He may be more like Rand than Ron on foreign policy, but those differences are minor.

If you require someone to openly endorse Ron to get your support, then Massie isn't your guy. But I'm not going to fault him for that; I know the political reality of elections like this.

I, for one, will be supporting Thomas Massie not because of who he endorses, but because he will stand up for my constitutional rights while in Congress.

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## Brett85

> Am I watching the same video? Where did he criticize RP's foreign policy?


He said, "I don't agree with his views on defense issues."

Even I may not agree with every single aspect of Ron's views on defense/foreign policy issues.  However, I wouldn't bring it up if I wasn't asked about it.  If I was asked about it, I would say that I agree with Ron's foreign policy views "for the most part."  If they asked me who I supported for President, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to say that I support Ron.

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## Jeremy

> He said, "I don't agree with his views on defense issues."
> 
> Even I may not agree with every single aspect of Ron's views on defense/foreign policy issues.  However, I wouldn't bring it up if I wasn't asked about it.  If I was asked about it, I would say that I agree with Ron's foreign policy views "for the most part."  If they asked me who I supported for President, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to say that I support Ron.


Well I think that's what he meant.   Don't be so critical of how he worded it.  Look at his other interviews.  He is strong against NDAA, for example.  He's against nation building.  He is a true Constitutionalist.  So I don't know what you're trying to say... he's a neocon against nation building?  I know he agrees with Rand on fp.  And Rand has said he doesn't agree with his dad as well.

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## Brett85

> Massie has donated a lot to Ron, and he's already shown his disdain for legislation like NDAA/SOPA/PATRIOT Act, etc. He may be more like Rand than Ron on foreign policy, but those differences are minor.
> 
> *If you require someone to openly endorse Ron to get your support, then Massie isn't your guy.* But I'm not going to fault him for that; I know the political reality of elections like this.
> 
> I, for one, will be supporting Thomas Massie not because of who he endorses, but because he will stand up for my constitutional rights while in Congress.


...

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## BamaFanNKy

Exactly, it's not about Liberty or getting more candidates in office.... it's about Ron.

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## Brett85

> Well I think that's what he meant.   Don't be so critical of how he worded it.  Look at his other interviews.  He is strong against NDAA, for example.  He's against nation building.  He is a true Constitutionalist.  So I don't know what you're trying to say... he's a neocon against nation building?  I know he agrees with Rand on fp.  And Rand has said he doesn't agree with his dad as well.


Maybe so.  But it just seems somewhat strange that someone who posts here wouldn't admit to supporting Ron.  If he's worried that it could hurt him in his race, he should realize that it's very easy for his opponents to go on the internet and see who he donated money to.  There's no reason at all for him to deny his support for Ron.

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## low preference guy

> 


i'm just giving friendly advice. i want him to win. he hurts himself when he undermines an important source of financial support.

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## BamaFanNKy

> i'm just giving friendly advice. i want him to win. he hurts himself when he undermines an important source of financial support.


I don't think you guys realize how far Rand had to run from his own father to win in Kentucky. I get this, "I love Rand but can't stand his father" all the time. Like you said in another thread, it's about perception.

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## Jeremy

> Maybe so.  But it just seems somewhat strange that someone who posts here wouldn't admit to supporting Ron.  If he's worried that it could hurt him in his race, he should realize that it's very easy for his opponents to go on the internet and see who he donated money to.  There's no reason at all for him to deny his support for Ron.


 Um he does admit to supporting Ron  on his website, Facebook, with his wallet, etc.  (Austin is wrong) Rand Paul said TM supports Ron in his book too, lol!  He just didn't want to talk about POTUS politics and it came across weird.  If you don't believe me, wait until someone asks him again  I guess...

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## Brett85

> I don't think you guys realize how far Rand had to run from his own father to win in Kentucky. I get this, "I love Rand but can't stand his father" all the time. Like you said in another thread, it's about perception.


Yeah, but Rand never said that he didn't support his father.  He openly admitted to supporting his father in 2008.  He's certainly been strong in his support for Ron this time around as well.

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## BamaFanNKy

> Yeah, but Rand never said that he didn't support his father.  He openly admitted to supporting his father in 2008.  He's certainly been strong in his support for Ron this time around as well.


I'm not going to argue with you. If you don't understand just stop posting about it.

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## Jeremy

> Massie has donated a lot to Ron, and he's already shown his disdain for legislation like NDAA/SOPA/PATRIOT Act, etc. He may be more like Rand than Ron on foreign policy, but those differences are minor.
> 
> If you require someone to openly endorse Ron to get your support, then Massie isn't your guy. But I'm not going to fault him for that; I know the political reality of elections like this.
> 
> I, for one, will be supporting Thomas Massie not because of who he endorses, but because he will stand up for my constitutional rights while in Congress.


Actually Austin, he is open about it.

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## Brett85

> Um he does admit to supporting Ron  on his website, Facebook, with his wallet, etc.  Rand Paul said he support Ron in his book too, lol!  He just didn't want to talk about POTUS politics and it came across weird.  If you don't believe me, wait until someone asks him again  I guess...


He must have really messed up in that interview then.  It kind of sounded like he was ashamed to say that he supports Ron on television.

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## Brett85

> I'm not going to argue with you. If you don't understand just stop posting about it.


So I'm supposed to understand that forum members here are supposed to donate money to a guy who goes out of his way to say that Ron is wrong on national security issues and won't even admit that he supports him?

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## BamaFanNKy

> He must have really messed up in that interview then.  It kind of sounded like he was ashamed to say that he supports Ron on television.


You keep saying the same thing over and over and over

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## Brett85

> You keep saying the same thing over and over and over


You keep refusing to make sense.

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## BamaFanNKy

> So I'm supposed to understand that forum members here are supposed to donate money to a guy who goes out of his way to say that Ron is wrong on national security issues and won't even admit that he supports him?


No, most forum members can see the 1,000 examples of how he's visually, financially and verbally supported him. You take one misconstrued and twisted distortion in your mind to say he doesn't.

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## Brett85

> No, most forum members can see the 1,000 examples of how he's visually, financially and verbally supported him. You take one misconstrued and twisted distortion in your mind to say he doesn't.


Again, why would he financially support him but not verbally support him in that interview?  You still can't answer that.

----------


## Jeremy

> He must have really messed up in that interview then.  It kind of sounded like he was ashamed to say that he supports Ron on television.


Look, we have a real liberty candidate here.  He has even been active at our forum, especially during the Rand Paul campaign, which happened in his state.  (By the way, he's been a member here longer than you.)  He supports Ron like all of us.  He asked people to donate to Ron on his blog: http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/2011...great-man.html

If Ron Paul says something you don't like in a debate, are you going to start calling him a phony or something?  No you're not.  So instead of being negative, let's just move on and help him get elected.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Again, why would he financially support him but not verbally support him in that interview?  You still can't answer that.


Because this isn't about Ron Paul 2012. It's about Liberty. Most people are on here for the message and the cause, not the man.

----------


## Adrock

I remember that Rand has said he doesn't agree with RP's Foreign Policy many times during the campaign and even in interviews lately. If you see what Rand actually says though, he is a lot more like his dad. He just expresses the ideas in a different way. While Ron's spark started everything, I also feel that Rand's style has also converted many that may have initially discounted Ron.

----------


## Jeremy

> Again, why would he financially support him but not verbally support him in that interview?  You still can't answer that.


 Why do you think Rand does something similar?  Because people like attacking Ron and use Ron to attack others.  Give him a break on his first (?) TV interview.

----------


## Brett85

> Why do you think Rand does something similar?  Because people like attacking Ron and use Ron to attack others.  Give him a break on his first (?) TV interview.


Rand doesn't do anything similar.  Rand verbally supports Ron and campaigns with him.  It would've been fine for Massie to say where he disagreed with Ron if he had been asked it, but he just brought it up out of the blue.  He deserves to have a chance to clarify what he meant, but I'm just pointing out that it was a strange comment to make.

----------


## Jeremy

> Rand doesn't do anything similar.  Rand verbally supports Ron and campaigns with him.  It would've been fine for Massie to say where he disagreed with Ron if he had been asked it, but he just brought it up out of the blue.  He deserves to have a chance to clarify what he meant, but I'm just pointing out that it was a strange comment to make.


 Well Ron makes plenty of strange comments too, you know.  (In other words, we're dealing with humans, not robots)

And don't forget: http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/2011...great-man.html

----------


## Austin

> Why do you think Rand does something similar?  Because people like attacking Ron and use Ron to attack others.  *Give him a break on his first (?) TV interview.*


This.




> Rand doesn't do anything similar.  Rand verbally supports Ron and campaigns with him.  It would've been fine for Massie to say where he disagreed with Ron if he had been asked it, but he just brought it up out of the blue.  He deserves to have a chance to clarify what he meant, but I'm just pointing out that it was a strange comment to make.


Rand now verbally supports Ron, but he was not nearly as open about it in the beginning. In fact, Rand made it very clear in the beginning that he and Ron differed on foreign policy. Remember his first ad? It looks like a Santorum or Gingrich ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOrVeUWTLXI

Thomas wanted to avoid being pigeonholed as an isolationist or part of  blame America crowd. It is not Massie's role to defend Ron's positions. As others have stated, he was a bit brash about it, but it was indeed his first major interview.. give him a break.

----------


## Brett85

I was just criticizing the comments that he made.  I wasn't saying that he's a bad candidate or wrong on the issues.  We'll see how his future interviews go.

----------


## MJU1983

Interviewer:

"Now, you've also said in some ways you also agree with Ron Paul, his [Rand's] fatheruh, is he, the candidate you most agree with in the Presidential race?"

Massie:

Danced around the question, gave some weird looks...doesn't say yes and then says he disagrees with Ron's "defense" policies??  See: The Constitution of the United States. Then he brings up national debt being a threat to national security?  How much did Iraq cost again? $4 TRILLION?

The correct answer would have been *YES* (especially if this is a RECENT video) - Ron IS the candidate I most agree with and here's why (or don't even give the whys unless asked).

----------


## Jeremy

> Interviewer:
> 
> "Now, you've also said in some ways you also agree with Ron Paul, his [Rand's] father…uh, is he, the candidate you most agree with in the Presidential race?"
> 
> Massie:
> 
> Danced around the question, gave some weird looks...doesn't say yes and then says he disagrees with Ron's "defense" policies…??  See: The Constitution of the United States. Then he brings up national debt being a threat to national security?  How much did Iraq cost again? $4 TRILLION?
> 
> The correct answer would have been *YES* (especially if this is a RECENT video) - Ron IS the candidate I most agree with and here's why (or don't even give the whys unless asked).


 Listen his other interviews

----------


## BamaFanNKy

Seems many here forget the website "Too Kooky For Kentucky." This is the hot bed for those people.

----------


## Mini-Me

> Exactly, it's not about Liberty or getting more candidates in office.... it's about Ron.


Don't throw ridiculous and intellectually dishonest straw man arguments in people's faces.  This is not about a cult of personality, and everyone with reservations has their own reasons.  I don't doubt that Massie supports Paul; his donations prove that, and he's donated far more than I can.  However, educating people is extremely important to me, and courage is extremely important for me.  Massie looks like a good guy, but I can't get excited about someone who is afraid to own his viewpoints and publicly support the same people he supports in private.  We are finally making massive inroads with the public thanks to more and more people gaining the courage to openly stand up for liberty.  "Social proof" is largely working, which is precisely why the media is doing everything they can to fight against the rising tide.  Meanwhile, Massie is backpedaling and publicly treating Ron Paul like some kind of political leper, that he still has to distance himself from?  Exactly how is that supposed to spread the message of liberty?  How does that say, "Liberty is popular?"  How does that help us intellectually defend Constitutional and/or libertarian positions?

On a more emotional level, I've have my own life experiences with fair-weather friends willing to throw me under the bus to maintain their social status.  Ron has been fearlessly fighting this battle for 35 years, most of the time totally alone, and he has been ignored, mocked, scorned, dragged through the mud, and called every name under the sun for standing up for his principles.  This movement is not about him, but he deserves some open respect and recognition.  It is no fun to be a pariah and abandoned by your friends, and I have far more respect for true friends who publicly stick around even when it's socially/politically inconvenient for them.  In short, courage and integrity are extremely important to me.  Yes, I understand that sometimes liberty candidates will need to play politics if they want to influence their colleagues within the system...but there's a sliding scale here, and the further you go down that road, the less enthusiastic I become.  I can accept that Rand wants to pick his battles instead of casting lone ineffectual "no" votes...but I will not pretend it doesn't sadden me.  However, throwing someone under the bus, who has already suffered far more undeserved abuse than any person should have to put up with?  Sorry, but count me out.

Thomas, if you're reading this, I'm not trying to crap on you.  You're doing your part in your own way, and you're doing far more than I am.  I know that you're running a tough race in a tough district, and I know you don't want to become a pariah yourself...but you must understand that you are competing for limited funds and support with other liberty candidates who ARE willing to stick their necks out and put their own reputations on the line.  You're competing for limited funds and support with other liberty candidates who are not afraid to openly and fearlessly represent the liberty movement, and who intellectually challenge the totally monstrous status quo instead of trying to plead and reason with it.  I wish you all the luck in the world...but if you want us to fully stand by you, you really need to fully stand by us.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

"On a more emotional level, I've have my own life experiences with fair-weather friends willing to throw me under the bus to maintain their social status."

What are you talking about? I swear some of you are worse than a jilted ex-girlfriend.

----------


## Austin

> Interviewer:
> 
> "Now, you've also said in some ways you also agree with Ron Paul, his [Rand's] father…uh, is he, the candidate you most agree with in the Presidential race?"
> 
> Massie:
> 
> Danced around the question, gave some weird looks...doesn't say yes and then says he disagrees with Ron's "defense" policies…??  See: The Constitution of the United States. Then he brings up national debt being a threat to national security?  How much did Iraq cost again? $4 TRILLION?
> 
> The correct answer would have been *YES* (especially if this is a RECENT video) - Ron IS the candidate I most agree with and here's why (or don't even give the whys unless asked).


Yeah, he could have handled the interview better. That much has been established. But here are the facts:

Massie was inspired by Ron to run for office
Massie has donated substantial amounts to Ron and Rand
Massie volunteered for Rand
Massie opposes NDAA/SOPA/PATRIOT Act

With that in mind, I'm donating another $20.12. 

Like his facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/ThomasMassieforCongress

*Amount: $20.12
Transaction ID: EZNP3CA01D47
Transaction date/time: 2012-01-20 22:18:20*

----------


## TheTyke

I know Thomas Massie personally, as do many of the people who've posted on this thread, and I strongly believe we don't get candidates this good very often, nor conditions this good for winning. He's been supportive of Ron Paul on his Facebook, at events in KY and helped with the moneybombs that got us to this point. A congressman is a big deal, but after Ron's run we will only have one 100% with us (Justin Amash) - the future of the liberty movement is relying on electing reinforcements. Moreover, Thomas knows how to win, and this is a race we WILL win - IF we get him the resources to be competitive - right now.

This is the exactly same thing we encountered when Rand ran.... while hundreds of us on the ground in KY put countless hours, blood, sweat and tears into his campaign here to WIN, a handful of people on the forums sat back in their chairs, dissecting every statement he (or the media) made to find evidence he "wasn't pure enough" and dampened the enthusiasm of the liberty movement to support our efforts. Yet Rand put in the effort and did what it took to win, and has moved the discussion in the Senate farther toward our message than anyone has in decades. I had to decide early on if he was for real, and I did, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. And short of Ron Paul himself, who I trust most of all, Thomas Massie is one of those in politics who I have most confidence in.

And even though I'm about broke and could regret this, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is.

*Thank you for your generous donation!
Amount:	$20.12
Transaction date/time:	2012-01-20 22:18:26*

----------


## Adrock

Many here refused to back Rand because he wasn't pure in their eyes. I followed the campaign closely and remember all of the "kooky" comments. I think Massie is following the playbook that Rand wrote in 2010.

----------


## Austin

> Many here refused to back Rand because he wasn't pure in their eyes. I followed the campaign closely and remember all of the "kooky" comments. I think Massie is following the playbook that Rand wrote in 2010.


Bingo. He's not as seasoned as Rand, as evidenced by that interview.. but that's definitely what he's doing. It's a victory playbook that he's following.

And thanks for your support, Tyke!

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Many here refused to back Rand because he wasn't pure in their eyes. I followed the campaign closely and remember all of the "kooky" comments. I think Massie is following the playbook that Rand wrote in 2010.


Notice the Campaign Manager is Rand's right hand man. SAME PLAYBOOK! Thomas may add "The Interesting Thing....." to all his answers.

----------


## Mini-Me

> "On a more emotional level, I've have my own life experiences with fair-weather friends willing to throw me under the bus to maintain their social status."
> 
> What are you talking about? I swear some of you are worse than a jilted ex-girlfriend.


Don't be dense.  What do you think I'm talking about?  If you're unwilling to publicly stand by your friends (e.g. Ron) when it's politically/socially inconvenient, it says a lot about your courage.  You might not consider that important, but I do, and by the looks of this thread, I'm not alone in feeling this way.

I'm not saying I'm writing Massie off.  What I'm saying is, he hasn't earned my support yet, whereas others have.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Don't be dense.  What do you think I'm talking about?  If you're unwilling to publicly stand by your friends (e.g. Ron) when it's politically/socially inconvenient, it says a lot about your courage.  You might not consider that important, but I do, and by the looks of this thread, I'm not alone in feeling this way.


Yep. You are not alone in acting like half the purists on here who complained about Rand.

----------


## MRoCkEd

> I know Thomas Massie personally, as do many of the people who've posted on this thread, and I strongly believe we don't get candidates this good very often, nor conditions this good for winning. He's been supportive of Ron Paul on his Facebook, at events in KY and helped with the moneybombs that got us to this point. A congressman is a big deal, but after Ron's run we will only have one 100% with us (Justin Amash) - the future of the liberty movement is relying on electing reinforcements. Moreover, Thomas knows how to win, and this is a race we WILL win - IF we get him the resources to be competitive - right now.
> 
> This is the exactly same thing we encountered when Rand ran.... while hundreds of us on the ground in KY put countless hours, blood, sweat and tears into his campaign here to WIN, a handful of people on the forums sat back in their chairs, dissecting every statement he (or the media) made to find evidence he "wasn't pure enough" and dampened the enthusiasm of the liberty movement to support our efforts. Yet Rand put in the effort and did what it took to win, and has moved the discussion in the Senate farther toward our message than anyone has in decades. I had to decide early on if he was for real, and I did, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. And short of Ron Paul himself, who I trust most of all, Thomas Massie is one of those in politics who I have most confidence in.
> 
> And even though I'm about broke and could regret this, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is.
> 
> *Thank you for your generous donation!
> Amount:	$20.12
> Transaction date/time:	2012-01-20 22:18:26*


Awesome! +REP

----------


## Adrock

Please keep in mind that this is a district where if we win the primary, we will win the general. If he is well funded, this seat is low hanging fruit. I hope to see Massie working as hard as Rand did.

----------


## QWDC

Yeah, it's sad to realize but Ron Paul doesn't have the highest approval ratings in the south. I'm willing to bet most people who voted for Rand had no clue that Ron was his father, or who Ron was at all. At long as the strategy works, I say go for it. NH is trying to become a libertarian state with the FSP, and we are trying to turn KY into a libertarian state by successfully electing congressmen close to the libertarian core of ideas. If you think there is a better way of moving the national narrative closer to libertarianism, I'd be happy to hear it.

----------


## Austin

> Please keep in mind that this is a district where if we win the primary, we will win the general. If he is well funded, this seat is low hanging fruit. I hope to see Massie working as hard as Rand did.


If how hard he worked for Rand in 2010 is any indication, he will outwork the other candidate's combined.

----------


## Adrock

Rand can go on Hannity and say he doesn't agree with all of his father's foreign policy. He effectively disarms the host and goes about espousing almost all of the foreign policy ideas his father stands for in a different way and by the end most of the time the host ends up agreeing with him. I appreciate Ron's approach and Rand's approach, they both are effective in their own way.

----------


## Bergie Bergeron

> Notice the Campaign Manager is Rand's right hand man. SAME PLAYBOOK! T*homas may add "The Interesting Thing....." to all his answers.*

----------


## Mini-Me

> Yep. You are not alone in acting like half the purists on here who complained about Rand.


Are you trying to start a flame war or something?  Cut it out with the straw man "purist" attacks.  Using your loose standard for "purist" name-calling, mainstream Republicans might as well taunt you for being a "purist" because you won't support Romney.  In truth, Romney is just too far from you in terms of ideology and character, for you to support him.

I agree with Rand's critics that he's imperfect, but I've always urged people to give him some breathing room.  On the balance, he has earned my support.  My standard for "purity" is actually pretty lax, but the farther you get from my position, and the more you try to distance yourself from people who hold my position, the less excited I'm going to get for you.  That's not absolutism; it's just the natural way of things.

I think Thomas is a good guy, and I think he has a bright future in this movement, but he has not yet earned my support in this race.  Part of it is because other liberty candidates - also desperate for support - are much more willing to openly stand up for what I believe in.  Part of it is a matter of character.  Courage goes a long way with me, and I'm waiting to see some from Thomas.

I'm not posting in this thread to crap on his candidacy or divide.  If you're happy to support him, I'm happy for you, and I have no intention of dissuading you.  *I'm posting in this thread to offer constructive criticism and say what it will take for Thomas to earn my support, and the support of others who think like me.*

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Are you trying to start a flame war or something?  Cut it out with the straw man "purist" attacks.  Using your loose standard for "purist" name-calling, mainstream Republicans might as well taunt you for being a "purist" because you won't support Romney.  In truth, Romney is just too far from you in terms of ideology and character, for you to support him.
> 
> I agree with Rand's critics that he's imperfect, but I've always urged people to give him some breathing room.  On the balance, he has earned my support.  My standard for "purity" is actually pretty lax, but the farther you get from my position, and the more you try to distance yourself from people who hold my position, the less excited I'm going to get for you.  That's not absolutism; it's just the natural way of things.
> 
> I think Thomas is a good guy, and I think he has a bright future in this movement, but he has not yet earned my support in this race.  Part of it is because other liberty candidates - also desperate for support - are much more willing to openly stand up for what I believe in.  Part of it is a matter of character.  Courage goes a long way with me, and I'm waiting to see some from Thomas.
> 
> I'm not posting in this thread to crap on his candidacy or divide.  If you're happy to support him, I'm happy for you, and I have no intention of dissuading you.  *I'm posting in this thread to offer constructive criticism and say what it will take for Thomas to earn my support, and the support of others who think like me.*


Cool story, bro. We know the guy, we've witnessed the guy, Rand has written about the guy.... we're trying to raise money. You're trying to work through some bad feelings of friends and to put down a guy everyone who works for Ron and Rand in Kentucky supports.

Move on Broham. Some of us are trying to win a race, not make you have good feelings.

----------


## low preference guy

> Move on Broham. Some of us are trying to win a race, not make you have good feelings.


not making donors have good feelings = less money. that's what your little brain can't grasp.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> not making donors have good feelings = less money. that's what your little brain can't grasp.


Yeah, I remember what you used to say about Rand.

----------


## Adrock

Many here didn't fully support Rand because he wasn't a carbon copy of Ron. Many others looked past that and decided to support him because of the potential. Then he earned our trust while in office. If enough of us didn't go out on a limb to support Rand in the beginning, then he would have never had the opportunity to earn our trust. I think we can agree that Massie should at least get some slack on his first interview.

----------


## TheDriver

> So this guy is the best non-incumbent "liberty candidate" for the U.S. House?  Is B.J. Lawson running again?


How many times has he lost?

----------


## TheDriver

Rand listened to those that new better, and he won. Elections are about winning, not being an internet liberty-champion. Let the votes speak for themselves. Rand Paul isn't perfect, but he's a hell of lot better than Mitch's boy would have been. The part of Kentucky Massie will be running in was perhaps the strongest region for Rand Paul, so it's ripe for a liberty-based candidate. I'll be donating!

P.S. The Penny Plan might not impress Ron Paul supporters, but mainstream voters eat-it-up.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Rand listened to those that new better, and he won. Elections are about winning, not being an internet liberty-champion. Let the votes speak for themselves. Rand Paul isn't perfect, but he's a hell of lot better than Mitch's boy would have been. The part of Kentucky Massie will be running in was perhaps the strongest region for Rand Paul, so it's ripe for a liberty-based candidate. I'll be donating!
> 
> P.S. The Penny Plan might not impress Ron Paul supporters, but mainstream voters eat-it-up.


I trust this poster over all other posters and think they should run for office.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

By the way, I stood by Rand and supported him, because I had, what I felt, were good enough reasons to believe him to be genuinely libertarian.  There was a treasury of letters to the editor, speeches, and statements backing that up, as well as actions such as forming the alternative Ophthalmologist certification association, as well as the long personal family association and unreserved endorsement of Ron Paul.  There was a risk, but we will always have that risk, no matter how much and how convincingly the person says they agree with us, as shown in the cases of Linda Smith and Dana Rohrabacher.  

Track record is the best indication of what aspirants will actually do, and the best way to assuage concerns.  All of you who know him so well should be looking up the ruling record of Mr. Massie to show everyone why we should trust him.

All of this is to say that: I can be convinced.  Most of us on the forum can, I think, be convinced.  Even low preference guy might come around!  But you will have to bring out the evidence.  Hey, if Ron Paul were saying the things he was, without his pristine decade-spanning voting record, I'd be happy for the rhetoric spreading the ideas, but I wouldn't believe him.  It would sound, frankly, too good to be true.  There would be no reason to believe he'd actually follow through with his rhetoric, any more than Reagan did.

What's more: I actually deep down want to be convinced.  People in Congress would be a great thing to have.  The rEVOLution has proven we can elect Congressmen, and even Senators.  We should use that power.  But we don't need another 1994 Republican Freshman Class.  Those freshman congressmen all ran anti-government, cut-the-spending campaigns, to a man.  In Wisconsin, it was Mark Neumann.  He was going to Washington to cut, cut, cut.  In the end, he compromised, compromised, compromised.  He accomplished and stood for nothing that _I_ liked, but Newt and the party leadership was probably very happy with him.  We don't need our own version of that junk.

----------


## Tod

> He must have really messed up in that interview then.  It kind of sounded like he was ashamed to say that he supports Ron on television.


That is the impression I got.  I just "unliked" his facebook page and will not donate to him.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> By the way, I stood by Rand and supported him, because I had, what I felt, were good enough reasons to believe him to be genuinely libertarian.  There was a treasury of letters to the editor, speeches, and statements backing that up, as well as actions such as forming the alternative Ophthalmologist certification association, as well as the long personal family association and unreserved endorsement of Ron Paul.  There was a risk, but we will always have that risk, no matter how much and how convincingly the person says they agree with us, as shown in the cases of Linda Smith and Dana Rohrabacher.  
> 
> Track record is the best indication of what aspirants will actually do, and the best way to assuage concerns.  All of you who know him so well should be looking up the ruling record of Mr. Massie to show everyone why we should trust him.
> 
> All of this is to say that: I can be convinced.  Most of us on the forum can, I think, be convinced.  Even low preference guy might come around!  But you will have to bring out the evidence.  Hey, if Ron Paul were saying the things he was, without his pristine decade-spanning voting record, I'd be happy for the rhetoric spreading the ideas, but I wouldn't believe him.  It would sound, frankly, too good to be true.  There would be no reason to believe he'd actually follow through with his rhetoric, any more than Reagan did.
> 
> What's more: I actually deep down want to be convinced.  People in Congress would be a great thing to have.  The rEVOLution has proven we can elect Congressmen, and even Senators.  We should use that power.  But we don't need another 1994 Republican Freshman Class.  Those freshman congressmen all ran anti-government, cut-the-spending campaigns, to a man.  In Wisconsin, it was Mark Neumann.  He was going to Washington to cut, cut, cut.  In the end, he compromised, compromised, compromised.  He accomplished and stood for nothing that _I_ liked, but Newt and the party leadership was probably very happy with him.  We don't need our own version of that junk.


He's been in office for just a year. He ran because he was fighting ordinances and zoning plans by county commission.... here, he tells it better:

----------


## Jeremy

> Umm, Bama, either I am not understanding you, or you have not understood me.  Perhaps you just skimmed my post and should re-read it?
> 
> The "sell out stuff" from Anthony Gregory via Lew Rockwell dot com was a short blurb about a man who did, in fact, sell out: Dana Rohrabacher.  It was mainly to show that not only was Dana a libertarian, he was a radical libertarian anarchist.  And now he's for bombing babies.


The forum mods and admins see him as a legit liberty candidate that will defend our positions.  That's why we made a board for him.  Out of the thousands of candidates running throughout the country, he is one of four we have made a board for in this election so far.  I know you might not know much about him, but for now you're just going to have to trust our decision until you can see for yourself.

----------


## Shotdown1027

> The forum mods and admins see him as a legit liberty candidate that will defend our positions.  That's why we made a board for him.  Out of the thousands of candidates running throughout the country, he is one of four we have made a board for in this election so far.  I know you might not know much about him, but for now you're just going to have to trust our decision until you can see for yourself.


Jeremy hits the nail on the head here. You don't know Massie--he does. The mods of the forum have vetted him and found him to be within the confines of the "Ron Paul" movement. All the signs certainly point to that--member of RPF since 2008 election, donated to both Ron and Rand, mentioned by Rand in his book as a major supporter, etc. You're taking one interview in which he's aiming to maximize his appeal and treating it as gospel--while dismissing the rest of the evidence.

----------


## cucucachu0000

Thank you!

Thank you for your generous donation!
Amount:	$15.00
Transaction ID:	EWNP3xxxxxxx
Transaction date/time:	2012-01-21 00:13:55

there glad to help

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Thomas is a brilliant guy who I am proud to call a friend. He is a strong advocate for liberty and will be a great voice for us in the sea of insanity that is Washington D.C. Honestly guys, I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch but this is a guy who I believe could be Presidential material someday and to see everyone gang up on him just because he does not sound 100% like Ron makes me quite sad. Yes, maybe he should have given Ron more of an endorsement but he probably should have done a million other things as well. Ron is Ron and not everyone is going to sound exactly like him and if we put that demand upon everyone than we are going to find ourselves without a voice at all in areas where it counts. Many long time established members have spent a long time getting to know this man and he is the real deal. He is not perfect but nobody is and he is also just now starting his bid for a major office like this.. Give him some time and please cut him some slack.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Give him some time and please cut him some slack.


  Hey, I'm giving him slack.  Just keep bringing out his record, posting more evidence.  The video Bama posted was good and does make me like him a lot more.  It's the  record that counts, though (I see he's not actually a judge at all).  What has he done and voted for and against (hopefully most against) as Executive?

----------


## Adrock

Best wished Mr. Massie. Hope to see good things from you in the future!

Amount:	$25.00
Transaction ID:	EKVP3Dxxxxxx
Transaction date/time:	2012-01-21 00:51:36

----------


## giovannile07

Glad to see his website is up now!

----------


## Ekrub

Did he ever post here? And if he did can someone link me his profile page so I can see some of his previous posts? I want to trust what you guys are saying but I too have some reservations based on the video. I haven't been able to read every post yet So I haven't seen all the pros-cons of supporting him. My only reservation is in still trying to work out some video game sales for a donation to gunny, and while I don't want to knock on massie, I feel more comfortable with donating my limited funds to someone I agree with and believe in.

Good luck to massie regardless.

----------


## Austin

> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> Amount:    $15.00
> Transaction ID:    EWNP3xxxxxxx
> Transaction date/time:    2012-01-21 00:13:55
> 
> there glad to help


+rep




> Best wished Mr. Massie. Hope to see good things from you in the future!
> 
> Amount:    $25.00
> Transaction ID:    EKVP3Dxxxxxx
> Transaction date/time:    2012-01-21 00:51:36


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Adrock again."

EDIT: I'm going to delete or split the discussion about Lew Rockwell/Anarchism/etc.

----------


## giovannile07

> Did he ever post here? And if he did can someone link me his profile page so I can see some of his previous posts? I want to trust what you guys are saying but I too have some reservations based on the video. I haven't been able to read every post yet So I haven't seen all the pros-cons of supporting him. My only reservation is in still trying to work out some video game sales for a donation to gunny, and while I don't want to knock on massie, I feel more comfortable with donating my limited funds to someone I agree with and believe in.
> 
> Good luck to massie regardless.


He posted this on the sixth page.



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member....3-thomas-in-ky

Honestly, I believe he is for Ron Paul and that he is truly for our freedoms. I didn't read all the posts, but basing all these views just on one video is just bad, let him further explain himself and don't be quick to judge.

----------


## DeadheadForPaul

Some people here are incapable of understanding how politics works.  It's almost like some of you WANT to turn against fellow liberty lovers and are looking for reasons to do so

Mr. Massie is one of us as evidenced by his support of both Ron and Rand.

Check his posting history...it should be quite extensive

I look forward to doing all I can to help him get that seat

----------


## DeadheadForPaul

> Yeah, but Rand never said that he didn't support his father.  He openly admitted to supporting his father in 2008.  He's certainly been strong in his support for Ron this time around as well.


Anyone who followed the KY race knows that Rand ran from Ron.

The fact is that Ron is politically toxic in the southeast as evidenced by his lower #'s in South Carolina vs. the numbers in NH

If someone has to simply run on his own positions and not endorse Ron, I'm okay with that.  Would rather have a secret Ron supporter in office than an open one sitting at home

BTW, many of these negative posters are the same folks who came out against Rand in 2010.  I remember all too well which of you dissected and criticized every comment and move by Rand.  Will you admit you were wrong about Rand? (see: Patriot Act, NDAA, SOPA, debt ceiling).  Now consider that you may be wrong about Mr. Massie too

----------


## mdmogren

Massie needs to clarify his foreign policy position. If he supports war I can never support him, plain and simple. War is far more evil and far more crucial than any other issue.

----------


## noxnoctum

What are this guy's positions on foreign policy and the drug war? If he's a drug warrior and/or an imperialist I will never support him.

----------


## Austin

> Massie needs to clarify his foreign policy position. If he supports war I can never support him, plain and simple. War is far more evil and far more crucial than any other issue.





> What are this guy's positions on foreign policy and the drug war? If he's a drug warrior and/or an imperialist I will never support him.


I imagine he'll take the most marketable points from Ron's foreign policy.
National Defense is the federal government's number one priority under the ConstitutionWe should only put our troops in harms way if there is a clear threat to our national securityIf such a threat exists, we should declare war; win it; and come home.Considering how new his web site is, I wouldn't be surprised if it is updated with more planks soon.

----------


## Krtek

It looks to me he is being stealthy and doing what it takes to get elected, his donations clearly show that he is a hardcore Ron Paul supporter.  When the general public is so misguided it might take some guerrilla warfare to take the country back.

----------


## Sweman

> Don't throw ridiculous and intellectually dishonest straw man arguments in people's faces.  This is not about a cult of personality, and everyone with reservations has their own reasons.  I don't doubt that Massie supports Paul; his donations prove that, and he's donated far more than I can.  However, educating people is extremely important to me, and courage is extremely important for me.  Massie looks like a good guy, but I can't get excited about someone who is afraid to own his viewpoints and publicly support the same people he supports in private.  We are finally making massive inroads with the public thanks to more and more people gaining the courage to openly stand up for liberty.  "Social proof" is largely working, which is precisely why the media is doing everything they can to fight against the rising tide.  Meanwhile, Massie is backpedaling and publicly treating Ron Paul like some kind of political leper, that he still has to distance himself from?  Exactly how is that supposed to spread the message of liberty?  How does that say, "Liberty is popular?"  How does that help us intellectually defend Constitutional and/or libertarian positions?
> 
> On a more emotional level, I've have my own life experiences with fair-weather friends willing to throw me under the bus to maintain their social status.  Ron has been fearlessly fighting this battle for 35 years, most of the time totally alone, and he has been ignored, mocked, scorned, dragged through the mud, and called every name under the sun for standing up for his principles.  This movement is not about him, but he deserves some open respect and recognition.  It is no fun to be a pariah and abandoned by your friends, and I have far more respect for true friends who publicly stick around even when it's socially/politically inconvenient for them.  In short, courage and integrity are extremely important to me.  Yes, I understand that sometimes liberty candidates will need to play politics if they want to influence their colleagues within the system...but there's a sliding scale here, and the further you go down that road, the less enthusiastic I become.  I can accept that Rand wants to pick his battles instead of casting lone ineffectual "no" votes...but I will not pretend it doesn't sadden me.  However, throwing someone under the bus, who has already suffered far more undeserved abuse than any person should have to put up with?  Sorry, but count me out.
> 
> Thomas, if you're reading this, I'm not trying to crap on you.  You're doing your part in your own way, and you're doing far more than I am.  I know that you're running a tough race in a tough district, and I know you don't want to become a pariah yourself...but you must understand that you are competing for limited funds and support with other liberty candidates who ARE willing to stick their necks out and put their own reputations on the line.  You're competing for limited funds and support with other liberty candidates who are not afraid to openly and fearlessly represent the liberty movement, and who intellectually challenge the totally monstrous status quo instead of trying to plead and reason with it.  I wish you all the luck in the world...but if you want us to fully stand by you, you really need to fully stand by us.


_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mini-Me again._

----------


## Sweman

> I'm not posting in this thread to crap on his candidacy or divide.  If you're happy to support him, I'm happy for you, and I have no intention of dissuading you.  *I'm posting in this thread to offer constructive criticism and say what it will take for Thomas to earn my support, and the support of others who think like me.*


This is why I support Mini-Me for Thread Winner.

----------


## brenton

i think the litmus test for "real" supporter is a bit tough for some of you guys. the deck is still heavily stacked against us. i'll definitely support thomas. i don't think it could be more apparent that he is the real deal.

----------


## mmadness

Why is this *flagged with Priority* and why is it in Grassroots Central when there is already a forum for this candidate that this thread is perfect for?

Not that I'm saying don't support Massie, but there are much higher priorities, such as helping out Dr. Paul's campaign, which is close to $2 million.

----------


## Adrock

The word needs to get out about Thomas. If he wins the primary, he will easily win in the general. In Congressional elections even a little bit makes a huge difference, and the earlier the money gives a better effect than later money. The RP campaign is very important, but so is the future. We need to make sure we are supporting liberty candidates like Thomas, Karen, and Amash. I would rather see money siphoned off to these candidates than going to the Super Brochure.

----------


## TheDriver

If you believe there should be no federal government, please stop posting in this thread. *pun intended*

----------


## mmadness

> I would rather see money siphoned off to these candidates than going to the Super Brochure.


Well yeah, but you don't have to bring those up. That's like saying you'd rather the sky is blue and the grass is green.

----------


## Adrock

> Well yeah, but you don't have to bring those up. That's like saying you'd rather the sky is blue and the grass is green.


Just an example. Most spend time here and in the General Politics board. It is obviously up to an individual on who\what they want to support. At least more people will know their is another option that would need attention immediately if deemed worthy. Having a candidate like this positioned in a district like this should be low hanging fruit.

----------


## One Last Battle!

This isn't Gunny is it? Cause I know for a fact that Gunny is worth supporting.

Otherwise, this IS a bit of a turnoff, tripping over your own feet to distance yourself from Ron. 

He's still worth supporting, though. Every candidate who's even a little better than the previous one ought to get support. Incremental change is better than regression.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> This isn't Gunny is it?


No, it isn't Glen Bradley (aka GunnyFreedom).
It's Thomas Massie (aka thomas-in-ky).

----------


## One Last Battle!

> No, it isn't Glen Bradley (aka GunnyFreedom).
> It's Thomas Massie (aka thomas-in-ky).


Whoops, silly me :P

Anyhow, my point still stands.

----------


## TheDriver

A smart candidate would not endorse anyone, as there is simply no need to take on the baggage. Also any Ron Paul supporter turned candidate, without baggage, should start his campaign fighting for the establishment vote. No need to alienate any voters. And unlike B.J. Lawson's district, if Massie wins the primary, he would breeze through the general.

----------


## Adrock

bump

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Hey, I'm giving him slack.  Just keep bringing out his record, posting more evidence.  The video Bama posted was good and does make me like him a lot more.  It's the  record that counts, though (I see he's not actually a judge at all).  What has he done and voted for and against (hopefully most against) as Executive?


A county judge in Kentucky is more the "County Manager." He in one year cut hundreds of thousands of dollars in waste. In a county with a lack of funds and tax base it's a huge accomplishment. He's not a professional politician. He's an inventor. You should check out his blog on his house he is building completely off the grid.

----------


## Crotale

> [/B]P.S.
> Don't have any money to donate? Like his Facebook page instead!



What's his twitter handle?

----------


## vechorik

He met my purity test (Which doesn't contain the test that a candidate must mention Ron Paul's name)

Thank you for your generous donation!

Amount: 	$50.00
Transaction ID: 	EWMP3D55C057
Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 10:30:10

----------


## Adrock

Bump

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> He met my purity test (Which doesn't contain the test that a candidate must mention Ron Paul's name)
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount: 	$50.00
> Transaction ID: 	EWMP3D55C057
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 10:30:10


+ rep

----------


## RipperNT

I'm a Northern KY voter and just watched the video. I like his Domestic Policy but not his Foreign Policy. Just got back from talking with a bunch of Neocon Fox Lovers (family members) and pretty much they told me that they love Rand but even Rand doesn't even like or believe in Ron Paul. Even he thinks that Dr Paul is a kook? Guess Rand really did throw Ron under the bus when he campaigned in KY apparently. I know what Mr Massie is up against to get elected, but my biggest thing is getting the influence out of Washington so hopefully he will be it. Really want that liberty loving second coming of Ron Paul that isn't afraid to be a Ron Paul supporter and didn't really like a few of the answers. Justin Amash seems to be on it. I'll still sway as many people though as I can as I believe in what you guys do here.

----------


## Austin

> I'm a Northern KY voter and just watched the video. I like his Domestic Policy but not his Foreign Policy. Just got back from talking with a bunch of Neocon Fox Lovers (family members) and pretty much they told me that they love Rand but even Rand doesn't even like or believe in Ron Paul. Even he thinks that Dr Paul is a kook? Guess Rand really did throw Ron under the bus when he campaigned in KY apparently. I know what Mr Massie is up against to get elected, but my biggest thing is getting the influence out of Washington so hopefully he will be it. Really want that liberty loving second coming of Ron Paul that isn't afraid to be a Ron Paul supporter and didn't really like a few of the answers. Justin Amash seems to be on it. I'll still sway as many people though as I can as I believe in what you guys do here.


How do you not like his foreign policy, when he hasn't fully explained it yet

----------


## tsai3904

> I like his Domestic Policy but not his Foreign Policy.


How can you not like his foreign policy when he didn't explain it?

Also, South Carolina State Senator Tom Davis said on MANY occasions that he didn't agree with Ron Paul's foreign policy.  Yet he still came around to endorse Ron Paul and is now explaining Ron Paul's foreign policy well.  Give the man some time.

----------


## RipperNT

It was kind of a tongue and cheek like everyone else says about Ron Paul.  You'll have a supporter here and i'll try and spread the message as much as possible.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> It was kind of a tongue and cheek like everyone else says about Ron Paul


 Everyone including Thomas Massie.

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

> Also, here is an excerpt from "The Tea Party Goes to Washington" by Senator Rand Paul:


This is true. I purchased the book and I recall this part.

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

> Umm, Bama, either I am not understanding you, or you have not understood me. Perhaps you just skimmed my post and should re-read it?
> 
> The "sell out stuff" from Anthony Gregory via Lew Rockwell dot com was a short blurb about a man who did, in fact, sell out: Dana Rohrabacher. It was mainly to show that not only was Dana a libertarian, he was a radical libertarian anarchist. And now he's for bombing babies.


Why is this forum always attacking one of the better people in the House? Rohrabacher is one of the best in the House. 

Also, I couldn't find that article.

----------


## eduardo89

> Why hasn't he maxed out? ; )


Have you?

----------


## tsai3904

> Rohrabacher is one of the best in the House.


Rohrabacher is the one that said Iraq should pay us back for all the money we spent to invade their country.

----------


## Jeremy

> Have you?


 I think he was joking.

----------


## Adrock

> Have you?


Nope. I figured that someone else was going to bring it up though. The trajectory of this thread has been that ridiculous at times.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Why is this forum always attacking one of the better people in the House? Rohrabacher is one of the best in the House. 
> 
> Also, I couldn't find that article.


 Please don't look for it; it's from the village idiot, Dungaree.  The LRC blurb linked to another article on Rohrbomber wherein he wishes death on people's family members.

More and more, I'm becoming convinced that foreign policy is actually _the_ crucial, pivotal issue.  After all, foreign policy was Dana's deviation, too.  I think if a guy is wrong on foreign policy, they are going to, in the end, amount to nothing but another shill for the establishment.  Ron is right on foreign policy.  As is Rand; they both appear to be the same to me, just different rhetoric.  Rohrbomber is psychotically wrong, ranting like every other drooling moron about dastardly Islamohomofascists bent on destroying Hollywood and bikinis.  We attack him because he is a reprehensible monster on foreign policy.  He is devoting his life to destroying my freedom.  Massie... well, we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

----------


## Jeremy

Here's an interview where he's asked about fp: http://www.whas.com/player/?station=...l&mid=21739182

edit: Actually, I think it was a different one

----------


## Adrock

Bump

----------


## TheLibertarianNationalist

I would support him if I knew more about his policies. What does he think about illegal & legal immigration?

----------


## Slutter McGee

I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to support him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:

Thank you!

Thank you for your generous donation!

Amount: 	$300.00
Transaction ID: 	EXYP8C9A1C30
Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 13:58:46

How the hell do you people think Ron Paul got elected the first time. It wasn't by going around everywhere screaming "LEGALIZE DRUGS" at the top of his lungs.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## TheTyke

> I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to vote for him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount: 	$300.00
> Transaction ID: 	EXYP8C9A1C30
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 13:58:46
> ...


Wooowww!! This guy knows how to win!!

----------


## amberjack

Wish he was running in my district :/

Thank you for your generous donation!
Amount: 	$100.00
Transaction ID: 	EZMP3CA50437
Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 15:03:59

----------


## TheTyke

> People probably won't think this is important, but what's his position on the abortion issue?


He's definitely pro-life. This is one of the first questions I asked him.

----------


## Austin

> I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to support him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount:     $300.00
> Transaction ID:     EXYP8C9A1C30
> Transaction date/time:     2012-01-21 13:58:46
> ...


I wish I could +rep more than once.

If some people here knew what Ron's first campaigns looked like, they'd defecate themselves. Thanks to everyone who has donated. 

Also, thanks to those who are bringing up constructive criticism and genuine skepticism. I see no fault in wanting clarification on foreign policy, but preemptively judging Massie based on one answer in one interview is a bit rash.

----------


## Bergie Bergeron

> I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to support him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount: 	$300.00
> Transaction ID: 	EXYP8C9A1C30
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 13:58:46
> ...


I would've given +rep even without the donation

----------


## Adrock

> I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to support him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount: 	$300.00
> Transaction ID: 	EXYP8C9A1C30
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 13:58:46
> ...


+ rep

----------


## Adrock

Bump for importance.

----------


## Bergie Bergeron

bump

----------


## Austin

Anyone else have a few bucks to spare?

----------


## TheDriver

> I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to support him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount: 	$300.00
> Transaction ID: 	EXYP8C9A1C30
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 13:58:46
> ...


Slutter is the man!

----------


## Brett85

> I am definitely in support of those who want more information. And if you choose not to support him, that is fine. We all have our standards, no matter how silly I might find them. But for all you jackasses going out of your way to bash him because you don't understand the nature of politics, and of winning, I have this to say:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> Amount: 	$300.00
> Transaction ID: 	EXYP8C9A1C30
> Transaction date/time: 	2012-01-21 13:58:46
> ...


Who said that Massie should come out and say that drugs should be legalized?  Nice straw man argument.  He was criticized by some of us for not admitting to who he supports in the Presidential race.  I don't expect him to agree with Ron on every single issue.  I don't agree with Ron's positions on every issue either.  But I would expect him to say that he supports Ron when asked about it, considering that he actually donated money to him in the past.

----------


## Adrock

Jebus. He was not asked who he supports for POTUS. He was asked if RP was the candidate he agree with the most. He then gave the same answer Rand does.

----------


## Brett85

> Jebus. He was not asked who he supports for POTUS. He was asked if RP was the candidate he agree with the most. He then gave the same answer Rand does.


No, Rand would say that he agrees with Ron the most.  Rand has some disagreements with Ron on foreign policy issues, but he's never disowned him.  

Again, I'm just criticizing the comment he made.  I'm not saying that he's a bad candidate or that people shouldn't donate money to him.  Just to be clear.

----------


## Austin

> No, Rand would say that he agrees with Ron the most.  Rand has some disagreements with Ron on foreign policy issues, but he's never disowned him.  
> 
> Again, I'm just criticizing the comment he made.  I'm not saying that he's a bad candidate or that people shouldn't donate money to him.  Just to be clear.


Based on how Rand handled comments about Ron prior to his successful election, I think he would have said something more similar to Massie. His very first ad was a foreign policy ad, mostly showcasing views that contrasted Ron's. 

When the media and our opponents are constantly misleading the electorate on Ron's foreign policy views, it's important to distance oneself from those misconstrued views. And from there, I do not think that it is Massie's role to clear confusion on Ron's foreign policies; at least not in an interview about his congressional race.

That is, if he wants to win. In the future, I think we'll hear him approach the topic in a slightly different way. I imagine he'll still say he doesn't agree with everything Ron has to say on foreign policy, but he will follow up with some key points:
National Defense should be the first priority of the federal governmentWe should only go to war if we declare war, define the objectives, win the war swiftly, and bring our troops home to further protect the nation

----------


## LiveForHonortune

Already donated but I wish there were more senators for Paul.

----------


## Todd

> I have talked to him numerous times before, but his answer concerning Ron Paul is troubling. I hope he clarifies his positions (that will ultimately decide my donation).


Troubling?  What kind of clarification do you need?

----------


## Slutter McGee

> Who said that Massie should come out and say that drugs should be legalized?  Nice straw man argument.  He was criticized by some of us for not admitting to who he supports in the Presidential race.  I don't expect him to agree with Ron on every single issue.  I don't agree with Ron's positions on every issue either.  But I would expect him to say that he supports Ron when asked about it, considering that he actually donated money to him in the past.


Even straw men can be used to make a $#@!ing point. If you want to keep trying to elect R.J. Harris quality candidates, then be my guest. I would rather make a $#@!ing difference. 

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

----------


## Brett85

> Even straw men can be used to make a $#@!ing point. If you want to keep trying to elect R.J. Harris quality candidates, then be my guest. I would rather make a $#@!ing difference. 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee


What's wrong with RJ Harris?

----------


## sailingaway

OK, I don't know what the issue is, but I tried to donate $20.12 and it didn't work.  Checked the debit card, and it is fine.  So I'll have to try again later.

----------


## Jeremy

> OK, I don't know what the issue is, but I tried to donate $20.12 and it didn't work.  Checked the debit card, and it is fine.  So I'll have to try again later.


How/where/why didn't it work?

----------


## whoisjohngalt

> Do you plan on changing things by electing one liberty candidate?


One at a time.

Those of you saying he doesn't support Ron are being ridiculous.  I know Thomas personally, and he is an ardent supporter of Ron Paul.  He is also a politician and he understands what it takes to get elected.  Yelling the truth at the top of his lungs but failing to get elected doesn't do our movement a whole lot of good in the 4th congressional district of Kentucky, unless there are some plans for nationally televised debates that I'm not aware of.  I;m guessing that you guys are either confused, absolutists, or anarchists.  Why don't you look at his record as County Judge Exec (Lewis County) instead of judging him on one interview?  Actions speak a lot louder than words.  Someday, you will all realize that we can pander to the neocons with words and then implement libertarian policy. Let's call it the Rand Paul Plan.  The neocon politicians have been doing it for a long time, and we are going to have to get a little dirty to accomplish our goals.

----------


## sailingaway

> How/where/why didn't it work?


I have no idea.  First it went freaky when I tried to put in my information before going to the pay part, and didn't process, then the next time it went past that part but wouldn't let me pay. The whole thing canceled. That's why I checked the card because sometimes they decide I'm doing something they consider unlike me and that it must be someone who stole my card.  Or that's what they say anyhow... but there was nothing wrong with the card. I've never tried to do a donation by debit card before though, maybe it just needs to be credit or paypal. My paypal account says I need to check in and give them a debit card (even though I always do bank transfer) and I havn't done it yet, is all.  It isn't a huge deal, If I have to I'll update paypal and use that.  But I thought there might be something wrong with his page.

----------


## TheLibertarianNationalist

> Even straw men can be used to make a $#@!ing point. If you want to keep trying to elect R.J. Harris quality candidates, then be my guest. I would rather make a $#@!ing difference. 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Slutter McGee



Or someone like BJ Lawson who continually runs in a liberal district.

----------


## TheTyke

> Those of you saying he doesn't support Ron are being ridiculous.  I know Thomas personally, and he is an ardent supporter of Ron Paul.  He is also a politician and he understands what it takes to get elected.  Yelling the truth at the top of his lungs but failing to get elected doesn't do our movement a whole lot of good in the 4th congressional district of Kentucky, unless there are some plans for nationally televised debates that I'm not aware of.  I;m guessing that you guys are either confused, absolutists, or anarchists.  Why don't you look at his record as County Judge Exec (Lewis County) instead of judging him on one interview?  Actions speak a lot louder than words.  Someday, you will all realize that we can pander to the neocons with words and then implement libertarian policy. Let's call it the Rand Paul Plan.  The neocon politicians have been doing it for a long time, and we are going to have to get a little dirty to accomplish our goals.


+1




> What's wrong with RJ Harris?


Oh, maybe putting out press releases bashing Rand Paul and dividing the movement - right at the moment when both of them most needed support to actually get elected? And then, naturally, losing catastrophically? There were hundreds of targets more deserving and strategically beneficial.

----------


## sailingaway

> Or someone like BJ Lawson who continually runs in a liberal district.


  BJ is spectacular.  His practice is there.  Although, I wish he were open to North Dakota, which needs a new Senator.

----------


## sailingaway

> No, Rand would say that he agrees with Ron the most.  Rand has some disagreements with Ron on foreign policy issues, but he's never disowned him.  
> 
> Again, I'm just criticizing the comment he made.  I'm not saying that he's a bad candidate or that people shouldn't donate money to him.  Just to be clear.


I agree I am surprised if Thomas didn't say Ron was the best, even if he might qualify it by 'even if I don't agree with him on everything.' I hadn't heard that.

----------


## Brett85

> One at a time.
> 
> Those of you saying he doesn't support Ron are being ridiculous.  I know Thomas personally, and he is an ardent supporter of Ron Paul.  He is also a politician and he understands what it takes to get elected.  Yelling the truth at the top of his lungs but failing to get elected doesn't do our movement a whole lot of good in the 4th congressional district of Kentucky, unless there are some plans for nationally televised debates that I'm not aware of.  I;m guessing that you guys are either confused, absolutists, or anarchists.  Why don't you look at his record as County Judge Exec (Lewis County) instead of judging him on one interview?  Actions speak a lot louder than words.  Someday, you will all realize that we can pander to the neocons with words and then implement libertarian policy. Let's call it the Rand Paul Plan.  The neocon politicians have been doing it for a long time, and we are going to have to get a little dirty to accomplish our goals.


Like SailingAway said, he should've answered with something like, "I agree with Ron Paul the most on the issues, even though there's areas where I disagree with Ron."  An answer like that would've been fine, at least for me.

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## sailingaway

Thank you!

Thank you for your generous donation!
Amount:	$20.12
Transaction ID:	EDNP3D6CXXXX
Transaction date/time:	2012-01-25 11:02:08

Well, I guess it was some kind of phishing email I got about adding a debit card to my paypal, because paypal is working fine.

I want clarification about his position on Ron, as time goes on, but for all I know he is just being coy knowing an endorsement would mean more when the KY primary is in view.  Obviously, if people are approaching Ron Paul supporters as Ron Paul supporters asking for support, those supporters are going to want to make sure the person supports Ron Paul.

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## Slutter McGee

It was going to get moved if I put it here in a new thread, so might as well bump a thread that exists already.


Thank you!

Thank you for your generous donation!

Amount: $400.00
Transaction ID: EKVP4AC40456
Transaction date/time: 2012-04-27 19:22:02

Dont be $#@!s. Donate.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

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