# News & Current Events > Coronavirus SARS-CoV2 >  CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming

## Created4

*CDC Tells Hospitals To List COVID as Cause of Death Even if You're Just Assuming or It Only Contributed*

The problem with making informed decisions about coronavirus is that we dont have a whole lot of data on it at the moment.

The data that we do have, meanwhile, could end up being terminally skewed, particularly the data thats been coming out of China.

The Centers for Disease Control and Preventions guidance on determining COVID-19 as a cause of death isnt going to help those numbers.

Issued March 24, the guidance tells hospitals to list COVID-19 as a cause of death regardless of whether or not theres actual testing to confirm thats the case.

Instead, even if the coronavirus was just a contributing factor or if its assumed to have caused or contributed to death, it can be listed as the primary cause.

The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, or ICD, has established the code U07.1 for death by coronavirus infection. Theres a secondary code, U07.2, for clinical or epidemiological diagnosis of COVID-19 where a laboratory confirmation is inconclusive or not available, according to the CDC guidance.

Because laboratory test results are not typically reported on death certificates in the U.S., NCHS is not planning to implement U07.2 for mortality statistics.

Therein lies the problem.

The underlying cause depends upon what and where conditions are reported on the death certificate. However, the rules for coding and selection of the underlying cause of death are expected to result in COVID- 19 being the underlying cause more often than not, the guidelines read.

COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc., the guidance continued.

If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II.

Author and former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson, one of the few well-known figures to question some of the statistics on COVID-19, questioned the new CDC guidelines as well:




> 1/ As you sit home watching #COVID death counts spiral, please know the official @CDCgov guidance for coding COVID-related deaths is as follows: any death where the disease caused or is *assumed* to have caused or *contributed to* death. Confirmed lab tests are not required..


Earlier this week, President Donald Trump and members of his coronavirus task force announced that they were expecting a death toll of between 100,000 and 240,000 from coronavirus.

In an article on Friday, The Washington Post said some experts didnt think the White Houses prediction models were accurate. It wasnt because those experts thought that figure was too high or too low: Its just because they didnt think there was enough data to determine a death range yet.

We dont have a sense of whats going on in the here and now, and we dont know what people will do in the future, Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist whose work was used by the White House to determine the death ranges, said.

We dont know if the virus is seasonal, as well.

It doesnt help that data when the guidelines for determining whos actually died of the coronavirus are profoundly vague.

For instance, what happens when an elderly person with numerous underlying conditions comes into the hospital and dies?

What happens when someone suffering from late-stage cancer or liver failure dies in the hospital? If that person was in the final stages of life and no testing is done and no autopsy conducted, what are we to assume?

If no testing is done and a patients symptoms are close enough to the seasonal flu, will that persons death automatically be attributed to COVID-19? And how much of a difference would that make in the numbers, if any?

The Western Journal has emailed the CDC for comment, but did not hear back in time for publication of this article.

Theres no doubt that this guidance will inflate the numbers, the only question is how drastically.

In places like New York City, where medical professionals are painfully overstretched, anyone who dies with an infection thats vaguely COVID-19-like could potentially have COVID-19 listed as their cause of death.

Consider, for instance, that the CDC is estimating there were between 24,000 and 63,000 deaths in the United States from influenza between October and March.

In NYC, does that mean some of those deaths got lumped under COVID-19? Will this keep on happening?

If so, that could skew the data in a significantly different direction  and it could influence the governments intervention to stop the spread of the virus.

This is a haphazard way to gather data at a time when that data needs to be more accurate than ever. We can and should do better than this.

Source.

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## dannno

jfc

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## nikcers

This isn't news they are only correlating people who get tested officially and die with it. That means there could be people who don't get tested and die from it too.

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## dannno

I had someone fact check me on this so I went straight to the order from the CDC. 

They say that without a test, if it is assumed to be COVID-19 related report it as such, and they will follow up later when test results are available and correct the data at that time.

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## dannno

> This isn't news they are only correlating people who get tested officially and die with it. That means there could be people who don't get tested and die from it too.


The CDC ordered them to report them *all* as COVID-19 deaths. So the deaths will be inflated until they can be corrected.

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## nikcers

> The CDC ordered them to report them *all* as COVID-19 deaths. So the deaths will be inflated until they can be corrected.


If they are positive. They are going to verify COD. Like for example if Kobe had it they would count him.

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## TER

It will not be a significant number.  The characteristics are getting more solidly indentifiable.   History, physical exam, imaging studies and labs are extremely reliable in suggesting who has the disease without confirmatory testing.   Will many be counted that actually had another similar looking process?  Sure, but _overall_, I don’t think it will be that much of a significant factor.  I could be wrong.  Hopefully they do postmortem testing to get more accurate results.

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## nikcers

> It will not be a significant number.  The characteristics are getting more solidly indentifiable.   History, physical exam, imaging studies and labs are extremely reliable in suggesting who has the disease without confirmatory testing.   Will many be counted that actually had another similar looking process?  Sure, but _overall_, I don’t think it will be that much of a significant factor.  I could be wrong.  Hopefully they do postmortem testing to get more accurate results.


this means they are separating the cause of death but are still trying to tabulate how many people have had it. This could make the number of infected individuals seem higher because they will be counted by that second code but that won't be the number of deaths by corona virus which is the original code. This could make death rates seem lower than they are.

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## jkr

Wait

Is this whole thing bull sh it?
I know people who are sick ,  I believe this is happening. but the reaction is looking like a well executed plan...a conspiracy fulfilling real time .

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## shakey1

Cooking the numbers?

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## nikcers

> Wait
> 
> Is this whole thing bull sh it?
> I know people who are sick ,  I believe this is happening. but the reaction is looking like a well executed plan...a conspiracy fulfilling real time .


No they just want to have the data for people who possibly have it based on medical diagnosis it's a separate code. They are putting that data into their other data to compile regions that are hit hardest so they can stock hospitals in places with larger amounts of sick people with supplies so there isn't a shortage, It's in 182 countries if this was a conspiracy a lot of people are keeping it secret.

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## ClaytonB

> If they are positive. They are going to verify COD. Like for example if Kobe had it they would count him.


Dayum. Ice cold humor.

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## idiom

If the doctor thinks you died of Covid, but doesn't have a test available to verify it, the write it down as Covid.

Not a big deal.

There are plenty of forces the other way to limit testing and only count tested deaths as actual deaths.

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## Okie RP fan

> Cooking the numbers?


Never let a crisis go to waste. We have to make this look _really bad_ otherwise how will the CDC and MSM save face? 

I haven't checked the numbers myself, so I'll pose the question here for someone else who may know: I've been reading that official pneumonia and flu numbers are being driven way down under all of this. Similar to what China was doing, but opposite (I read China began marking Coronavirus related deaths to pneumonia and flu). 

And I say this as someone who doesn't think this is a hoax, but I think we know numbers will be "cooked" a little to inflate the impact given the world's response to this. After all, they're going to have to explain why they shut down people's jobs, killed so many livelihoods, etc.

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## fisharmor

The number of cases will never be known.  I have a first-hand account from my sister working in a NY hospital that if someone shows up with symptoms and doesn't have any other conditions, that person is turned away.  So unless they're somehow counting them as COVID-19 cases without any testing at all, the death toll is already inflated.

But here's an excellent vid from the other day that explains - along with individual cases as proof - that there is no formal definition for what a "coronavirus death" is to begin with, and in at least one case, someone very much alive and convalescing in his house was counted as a fatality.

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## jkr

Okay 
so why aren't the cops who were breaking up these private gatherings wearing any protective equipment ?

I think the danger is being leveraged. this is a power grab nothing else... using the disease as cover to do whatever the f*** they want to us... and it's great cover for the collapsed economy the real reason things are going the way they're going

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## Champ

This is going to be the real story long after the media stops covering all of the nonsense.  How grossly the numbers were inflated to maximize the effect, to maximize the hysteria, to maximize the cover for the media to pump the airwaves with this story 24/7.  They are using every trick in the book to get as many causes of death listed simply as a covid-19 death.  It would take more effort to not see the manipulation than to simply recognize they we are all being and will continue to be lied to.  The lies are so transparent at this point, you have to wonder how desperate they really are to be pushing it this aggressively worldwide.

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## nikcers

headline should read CDC creates separate COD to track the spread of the virus and if there are more underlying health problems associated with the new virus.

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## Dr.3D

> The CDC ordered them to report them *all* as COVID-19 deaths. So the deaths will be inflated until they can be corrected.


Seems like the hospitals would be more than willing to do so too.
*Trump Administration to Pay Hospitals to Treat Uninsured Coronavirus Patients*

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## donnay

This is so that they can force the vaccine on everyone.  You do not take the vaccine, you cannot work and the pressure will be put on people because they shut down our economy for this.

Just listen to someone who has figured it out.

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## PAF

> *This is so that they can force the vaccine on everyone.  You do not take the vaccine, you cannot work and the pressure will be put on people because they shut down our economy for this.*
> 
> Just listen to someone who has figured it out.


Bingo.

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## devil21

> This is going to be the real story long after the media stops covering all of the nonsense.  How grossly the numbers were inflated to maximize the effect, to maximize the hysteria, to maximize the cover for the media to pump the airwaves with this story 24/7.  They are using every trick in the book to get as many causes of death listed simply as a covid-19 death.  It would take more effort to not see the manipulation than to simply recognize they we are all being and will continue to be lied to.  The lies are so transparent at this point, you have to wonder how desperate they really are to be pushing it this aggressively worldwide.


Eventually they'll have to be able to report a number ridiculously high enough to justify Bill Gates' vaccine and "vaccine identification tattoo", otherwise no one will go for it if the numbers are relatively low.  It's all bs.

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## 69360

In the past few days I have noticed a trend of the government and media starting to waffle and hedge. I'm seeing more statements and articles about how the estimates could have been too high, models weren't accurate etc. 

At the current rate, this is going to be on par with a normal bad flu season and no worse than the 2009-2010 swine flu. 

I think the end game media narrative is going to end up as "we won" by making the planet hide in their homes. 

If you read comments on mainstream media articles the trend is going toward the average person starting to question the government somewhat.

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## Created4

> In the past few days I have noticed a trend of the government and media starting to waffle and hedge. I'm seeing more statements and articles about how the estimates could have been too high, models weren't accurate etc. 
> 
> At the current rate, this is going to be on par with a normal bad flu season and no worse than the 2009-2010 swine flu. 
> 
> I think the end game media narrative is going to end up as "we won" by making the planet hide in their homes. 
> 
> If you read comments on mainstream media articles the trend is going toward the average person starting to question the government somewhat.


It's always been Trump's plan to let people go back to church by Easter. Watch for the announcement sometime this week (with social distancing).

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## Created4

*Montana physician Dr. Annie Bukacek discusses how COVID 19 death certificates are being manipulated*




Dr. Bukacek is a longtime Montana physician with over 30 years’ experience practicing medicine and signing death certificates.

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## pcosmar

so far,,One Fatal Head injury,, and a Smothered infant blamed on Covid.

i too wonder how many other causes will be blamed on it.

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## RonZeplin

From Ron Paul's weekly column: 




> On March 24th, the CDC issued an alert stating that doctors should  classify probable COVID-19 or likely COVID-19 as Covid-19 deaths.  Perhaps that explains the seeming drop-off of pneumonia deaths this year  and the simultaneous spike in Covid-19 deaths as some researchers have  reported.

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## TER

> so far,,One Fatal Head injury,, and a Smothered infant blamed on Covid.
> 
> i too wonder how many other causes will be blamed on it.


Relatively speaking, it will be an insignificant number (less than 5-15% I think).  The majority of deaths are people with known disease on vents with all the classic findings on history, physical exam and more importantly imaging and lab work.

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## pcosmar

> Relatively speaking, it will be an insignificant number (less than 5-15% I think).  The majority of deaths are people with known disease on vents with all the classic findings on history, physical exam and more importantly imaging and lab work.


The vast majority are being Kept alive already,,and the Cold just finishes them off,,
Much of it is Medical Malpractice..Wrong Drugs.. and cross contamination..

and Still far less than flu kills every year. They need to inflate the numbers to keep the panic going.

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## nikcers

> The vast majority are being Kept alive already,,and the Cold just finishes them off,,
> Much of it is Medical Malpractice..Wrong Drugs.. and cross contamination..
> 
> and Still far less than flu kills every year. They need to inflate the numbers to keep the panic going.

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## TER

> The vast majority are being Kept alive already,,and the Cold just finishes them off,,
> Much of it is Medical Malpractice..Wrong Drugs.. and cross contamination..
> 
> and Still far less than flu kills every year. They need to inflate the numbers to keep the panic going.


Believe what you will. Come to New York and ask someone if this is over exaggerated.  Everyone I know knows people (friends, family members) who have been hospitalized or died.  This isn’t the flu, this is a bioengineered virus which for some still unclear reasons, some people get extremely sick. Young included.  Many 30-50 yo intubated at my hospital.  Many with no former medical problems.  To say this is like the flu is inaccurate.  If they didn’t do these mitigation procedures, many many more people would have died than any flu season you have ever lived through.  Maybe I wouldn’t believe it if I wasn’t living in the thick of it.  But I know what I know and I see what I see.  If someone doesn’t want to believe me, that’s fine.  God is my witness.

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## pcosmar

> Believe what you will.


I saw two Hospitals First hand.. on the 17th... 

There were 1000 cases and 52 Dead (all centered around Elder care facilities).

The hospitals were factually NOT Busy,,despite media claims,,, (I was concerned driving her there)

Now it has gone from here ,, to there,, and everywhere else..

Italy did EVERYTHING WRONG,, but everyone still wants to copy that model..

And Yes TER, some people really do want all those old people to just die.

as a side,,Carol is well,,doing more than she is supposed to,, and I have not switched on her Oxygen Machine in weeks.

Fear has no place  here.

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## TER

I am happy to hear Carol is doing well.  I hope she continues to improve. 

I’ve posted enough about this.  I guess we all have to see things through whatever prism we are in. Going to sign off for a while.  I wish everyone the best.

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## donnay



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## nikcers

The amount of deaths from auto accidents are down because they are counting them as Corona virus.

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## devil21

> Believe what you will. Come to New York and ask someone if this is over exaggerated.  Everyone I know knows people (friends, family members) who have been hospitalized or died.  This isnt the flu, this is a bioengineered virus which for some still unclear reasons, some people get extremely sick. Young included.  Many 30-50 yo intubated at my hospital.  Many with no former medical problems.  To say this is like the flu is inaccurate.  If they didnt do these mitigation procedures, many many more people would have died than any flu season you have ever lived through.  Maybe I wouldnt believe it if I wasnt living in the thick of it.  But I know what I know and I see what I see.  If someone doesnt want to believe me, thats fine.  God is my witness.


Then why is it that loads of people are visiting NY hospitals (among other places), videoing the locations and they're all practically empty?  Even the ones claimed to be the epicenters of the outbreaks?  Which hospital is "your hospital"?  No offense but no, I don't believe you.  The documented evidence at the claimed epicenters doesn't match up at all with the media's claims.

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## nikcers

> Then why is it that loads of people are visiting NY hospitals (among other places), videoing the locations and they're all practically empty?  Even the ones claimed to be the epicenters of the outbreaks?  Which hospital is "your hospital"?  No offense but no, I don't believe you.  The documented evidence at the claimed epicenters doesn't match up at all with the media's claims.


Would you go to the hospital if you weren't dying?? All non essential medicine and surgeries are suspended. They have skeleton crews because they don't want to get the healthcare workers sick.

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## AngryCanadian

> I saw two Hospitals First hand.. on the 17th... 
> 
> There were 1000 cases and 52 Dead (all centered around Elder care facilities).
> 
> The hospitals were factually NOT Busy,,despite media claims,,, (I was concerned driving her there)
> 
> Now it has gone from here ,, to there,, and everywhere else..
> 
> Italy did EVERYTHING WRONG,, but everyone still wants to copy that model..
> ...


Old people though are very important and are good teachers. This ridicules what happened in Europe and if anyone should be blamed for the wide spread of the thing in Italy its the leftist socialist gov which was afraid of banning travelers from Wuhan and China while knowing this was already spreading.  And was afraid of being called racist.

Either way i do hope this thing really goes away on its own and never returns nor acts like the flu.

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## devil21

> Would you go to the hospital if you weren't dying?? All non essential medicine and surgeries are suspended. They have skeleton crews because they don't want to get the healthcare workers sick.


So, in other words, trust the media.  Hospitals are essentially shut down except for the hundreds of covid patients inside that only the media knows about.  Got it.

I particularly liked the media's video of the "covid unit" in a overrun NYC hospital where the blurred out patients were laying on hospital beds wearing street shoes.

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## nikcers

> So, in other words, trust the media.  Hospitals are essentially shut down except for the hundreds of covid patients inside that only the media knows about.  Got it.
> 
> I particularly liked the media's video of the "covid unit" in a overrun NYC hospital where the blurred out patients were laying on hospital beds wearing street shoes.


So in other words trust China. it's not trAnsmissable.

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## Dr.3D

> 


That's what I've been reading.   The improper use of the ventilators is causing lung damage.

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## devil21

> So in other words trust China. it's not trAnsmissable.


I don't see much difference between our media and theirs these days.

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## Jenard Butler

> I don't see much difference between our media and theirs these days.


Mao was financed by the owners of our media.

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## Brian4Liberty



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