# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Justin Amash Forum >  Did Amash just vote for Obamcare lite?

## Matt Collins

Why did Amash just vote for Obamacare lite?



http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll256.xml

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## Brett85

I hope he voted for it, because the bill is better than what we have now, and incremental change is certainly better than keeping Obamacare in its current form.  It was the moderate/liberal Republicans who voted against it.

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## r3volution 3.0

> Rumors on Facebook that Amash just voted for Obamacare lite.
> 
> Can anyone confirm or deny this?


Appears so

Can't find the full vote tally, but this article mentions that only one member of the Freedom Caucus (not Amash) voted against it.

Massie and Walter Jones also voted against it.

Rand's just commented critically on it.

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## Matt Collins

> I hope he voted for it, because the bill is better than what we have now, and incremental change is certainly better than keeping Obamacare in its current form.  It was the moderate/liberal Republicans who voted against it.


Wrong!


Real conservaitve / constitutionalist / libertarians voted against it... (Massie)

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## jllundqu

We will see what the Senate and Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and others have to say about this mess.  Hopefully Rand Paul's bill is the one that has most traction and they squish his and the house bill together...

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## Brett85

> Wrong!
> 
> 
> Real conservaitve / constitutionalist / libertarians voted against it... (Massie)


A "no" vote was a vote to keep Obamacare in its current form forever.  I agree with Amash over Massie on this one.

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## Brett85

> Hopefully Rand Paul's bill is the one that has most traction and they squish his and the house bill together...


Rand's bill has zero chance of passing Congress.  Why can no one ever be realistic about anything?

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## Matt Collins

> A "no" vote was a vote to keep Obamacare in its current form forever.


Incorrect once again. This was a vote for RepublicanCare as opposed to Obamacare. This is going back on promises and not repealing it and keeping most of it. Not to mention violating the Constitution

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## Brian4Liberty

> A "no" vote was a vote to keep Obamacare in its current form forever.  I agree with Amash over Massie on this one.


Another lesser of two evils choice.

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## jllundqu

> A "no" vote was a vote to keep Obamacare in its current form forever.  I agree with Amash over Massie on this one.


There's differing views on that.  A no vote would keep the blame of the failure of Obamacare on the democrats. And seeing as this is NOT a full repeal but more of a tinker with the current system, I think a no vote is fully justified as keeping a campaign promise, on the other hand, this is the best bill that they could get out of the House, so now it's up to the Senate where I think more free market concessions will be gained.

Ron Paul would have voted NO, that's for sure.

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## CPUd

Amash was one of the last ones to vote on it.  Maybe he wanted to pass it so he could see what's in it.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Incorrect once again. This was a vote for RepublicanCare as opposed to Obamacare. This is going back on promises and not repealing it and keeping most of it. Not to mention violating the Constitution


Blame the socialist RINOs who lied.

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## r3volution 3.0

> Amash was one of the last ones to vote on it.  Maybe he wanted to pass it so he could see what's in it.


That disturbs me more than the vote itself...

...suggests he was willing to vote Nay only if it was going to pass anyway.

I hope I'm dead wrong about that.

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## r3volution 3.0

> A "no" vote was a vote to keep Obamacare in its current form forever.  I agree with Amash over Massie on this one.


Suppose that in a few years time Trumpcare is collapsing and even more unpopular than Obmacare.

If all Republicans had voted for it, who would have the 'mandate' to make the next 'reform'?

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## William Tell

> A "no" vote was a vote to keep Obamacare in its current form forever.  I agree with Amash over Massie on this one.


Bull$#@!.

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## Brett85

> Another lesser of two evils choice.


That's what the choice usually is if you're a politician.  But logically it certainly makes sense to support legislation that at least reduces the damage that was caused by previous legislation.

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## Brett85

> Bull$#@!.


It's not.  Full repeal has zero chance of passing Congress.

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## CPUd

A lot of pissed off people blowing up his facebook page right now

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## Brian4Liberty

Oh well. The pragmatic and draconian solutions that would actually work by enabling competition will never be considered.

- Full repeal of Obamacare.
- Allow full competition across state and international lines for insurance.
- Remove barriers to competition for actual health care providers, especially cash only providers.
- Break the employer/health insurance market distortion. Employers will no longer be able to provide health insurance. Everyone pays for their own, or NONE if they choose.
- Remove barriers to generic and international drugs.
- Pre-tax health savings accounts (HSA) for direct payment of actual healthcare or drugs. No payments from HSA for insurance or pre-paid medical plans.

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## William Tell

> It's not.  Full repeal has zero chance of passing Congress.


It is bull$#@!. Because Trump and the RINO's said the last vote was the only chance or else keep Obamacare. The fact that this came up for a vote today shows that's bull$#@!.

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## Brett85

> A lot of pissed off people blowing up his facebook page right now


The vast majority of them are liberals.

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## Brett85

> It is bull$#@!. Because Trump and the RINO's said the last vote was the only chance or else keep Obamacare. The fact that this came up for a vote today shows that's bull$#@!.


Well, partial repeal of some sort is all that can pass.  The moderate/liberal Republicans only voted for full repeal when Obama was President because it didn't actually mean anything.

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## nikcers

You guys are not looking at the big picture, Amash is just playing 4d chess in order to get rid of Paul Ryan.

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## shakey1

Get the Gooberment out of it altogether.

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## r3volution 3.0

> You guys are not looking at the big picture, Amash is just playing 4d chess in order to get rid of Paul Ryan.

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## jllundqu

> You guys are not looking at the big picture, Amash is just playing 4d chess in order to get rid of Paul Ryan.


I see what you did there

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## Dr.3D

I don't get it.

Congress voted to abolish Obamacare, back when Obama was president and he vetoed it.    What has happened that they can't send the same bill to Trump?

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## CPUd

It has something to do with the Upton amendment.  All the MI reps voted yes.

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## EBounding

This is a colossal fail for Amash. Even if it is incrementally better, there's no way he or his staff had time to read the whole thing.

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## Brett85

> This is a colossal fail for Amash. Even if it is incrementally better, there's no way he or his staff had time to read the whole thing.


It's like 100-150 pages.  You could read that in one sitting.

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## kcchiefs6465

> I don't get it.
> 
> Congress voted to abolish Obamacare, back when Obama was president and he vetoed it.    What has happened that they can't send the same bill to Trump?


Well you see, they are a bunch of whores.

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## r3volution 3.0

> Well you see, they are a bunch of whores.

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## TheCount

> It's like 100-150 pages.  You could read that in one sitting.


It's 150 pages of changes to the original law, which means that for every paragraph that amends an old paragraph, you have to go look at what the old one says side by side with what the new one says.  It's effectively the same length as Obamacare.

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## afwjam

This is a bunch of bull$#@!.

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## Brett85

> It's 150 pages of changes to the original law, which means that for every paragraph that amends an old paragraph, you have to go look at what the old one says side by side with what the new one says.  It's effectively the same length as Obamacare.


Hmmm.  I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the bill repeals Obamacare and then replaces it with this 150 page bill.  (And the replacement bill includes some of the provisions in the original bill, such as allowing "kids" to stay on their parents insurance until age 26, and what knot.)

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## Feeding the Abscess

Amash voted for increased North Korean sanctions today, too.

Massie was the lone dissenting vote.

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## William Tell

> Amash voted for increased North Korean sanctions today, too.
> 
> Massie was the lone dissenting vote.


WTH

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## Feeding the Abscess

Massie's fan club should be named The Unwashed Massies.

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## William Tell

Heh.

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## Superfluous Man

> There's a difference between reducing something bad and replacing it with something also bad. Like Rand pointed out this puts the GOP on the record as supporting subsidies of Insurance Companies. It would be like if they repealed part of a gun ban and at the same time voted for another gun ban. Not cool. Not the same as reducing regulations and funding.


"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to William Tell again."

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## Brett85

> There's a difference between reducing something bad and replacing it with something also bad. Like Rand pointed out this puts the GOP on the record as supporting subsidies of Insurance Companies. It would be like if they repealed part of a gun ban and at the same time voted for another gun ban. Not cool. Not the same as reducing regulations and funding.


If this bill does actually contain subsidies for insurance companies, then I don't have any problem with Rand trying to get rid of that provision and trying to make the bill better.  But I just disagree with this whole idea that it either has to be full repeal or nothing at all.

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## angelatc

> Oh well. The pragmatic and draconian solutions that would actually work by enabling competition will never be considered.
> 
> 
> - Allow full competition across state and international lines for insurance.
> 
> .


The only thing stopping that is states' rights.  You already know what happened when they federalized the banks, so careful what you wish for.

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## Matt Collins

> Politics is all about compromise.  That's the way our political system works.  It's the only way you can actually govern. I guess you would oppose a bill that cuts tax rates from 20% to 15% just because it wouldn't completely abolish the IRS.


You have obviously never studied political strategy. You demand 100% and don't accept anything else. You force the opposition to move your direction.

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## jllundqu

> Politics is all about compromise.  That's the way our political system works.  It's the only way you can actually govern. I guess you would oppose a bill that cuts tax rates from 20% to 15% just because it wouldn't completely abolish the IRS.


Do you even Ron Paul, bro?  Dr. Paul would have voted no on this steaming pile of $#@! and you know it.

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## Brian4Liberty

> The only thing stopping that is states' rights.  You already know what happened when they federalized the banks, so careful what you wish for.


They have been oh so careful about states rights up till now. As an alternative, I'd be ok with just banning insurance altogether.

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## afwjam

His office says he will release a statment. Keep calling.

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## Dr.3D

Insurance that is required by the state is nothing more than socialism.

Everybody is required to put money into the system and only those who can't afford to pay get the rewards.

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## CaptUSA

> His office says he will release a statment. Keep calling.


Reports from yesterday were that he held his nose while voting and immediately regretted it.  The characterization was that he came out like, "what the hell did I just do?!"

These are the kinds of things that can happen when they rush through a bill without a chance to read _and consider_ it.  I feel bad for Justin.  They caught him on this one.  I hope it doesn't ruin him because he's one of the best we got.

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## afwjam

> Reports from yesterday were that he held his nose while voting and immediately regretted it.  The characterization was that he came out like, "what the hell did I just do?!"
> 
> These are the kinds of things that can happen when they rush through a bill without a chance to read _and consider_ it.  I feel bad for Justin.  They caught him on this one.  I hope it doesn't ruin him because he's one of the best we got.


Did he hold his nose for the North Korea vote too?

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## William Tell

> Reports from yesterday were that he held his nose while voting and immediately regretted it.  The characterization was that he came out like, "what the hell did I just do?!"
> 
> These are the kinds of things that can happen when they rush through a bill without a chance to read _and consider_ it.  I feel bad for Justin.  They caught him on this one.  I hope it doesn't ruin him because he's one of the best we got.


He's not helping anything by saying he considered it carefully. A lot of people are mad at him and some are even done with him. A shame.

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## jllundqu

> Well, Andy Biggs the freshman from AZ saw through the suicide pact and voted no. I wonder if they will kick him out of their little club. Giving your voting card to Jim Jordan isn't much smarter than giving it to Paul Ryan. The Freedom Caucus has done some good things but Amash has lost a ton of support and even more respect from both the grassroots and the independents he's been courting.


I actually spoke with Rep. Biggs by phone after the vote to personally thank him for his principled stance.  He's my rep in AZ.  He told me it wasn't even a tough vote.  He said it does not repeal obamacare and does not even begin to keep the promises he and the GOP made to the nation when campaigning.  His stock is rising, in my book.  But he's a border wall nut so I'm not under any illusions that he's a libertarian.... but at least he has balls.

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## EBounding

> https://www.facebook.com/justinamash...11436255562443


I've read this several times...I'm still not seeing where the incremental benefits are compared to the ACA.

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