# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Thomas Massie Forum >  A response to Marcus Carey

## jj-

Marcus Carey wrote that Massie's victory is another example of "politics as usual". His commentary is here.

Since he didn't allow my response, I'm posting it here.

Marcus, you talk a lot about Massie's money as evidence of politics as usual, but you don't recognize that the source of the money is a clear break from politics as usual. Money to politicians usually ensures that special interests are protected. However, money donated to Massie can't be expected to buy favors, as donors send the money with the objective that the government LEAVES THEM ALONE. You have to study what kind of people donate to the Ron Paul movement. The record-breaking money bombs are not from people who want favors from government. There you have a clear break from politics as usual, but apparently you're such a sore loser that can't recognize it.

Also, money by itself doesn't determine who wins a race. Even if the second-place finisher had more money than Massie, it doesn't guarantee she would have won. Trey Grayson had a lot of money and he lost.

Lastly, the candidates' stands on the issues of were nowhere near the same. Although non-interventionism might be a minor issue for you, it is a deal breaker for a lot of people. Many don't want to die in a war in favor of Israel against a country that isn't a threat to the security of the United States. The establishment candidates support the Department of Homeland Security, so the positions of the candidates on the issues are nowhere near the same unless you don't see how the policies some of them support strengthen the American police state.

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## Sola_Fide

Good points, but Marcus is a little butthurt right now and I think....a little exposed.  He drew his line in the sand in this race and he threw in with the establishment, thereby suffering a double-dose of defeat.

Rand Paul is the new conservative leader in Kentucky.  The Party is moving to his direction.  The dinosaurs of the establishment know they are losing grip on the minds of the people AND the Party leadership.

Now we have some unfinished business i.e. we have to primary McConnell in two years and complete the takeover.

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## jj-

> Now we have some unfinished business i.e. we have to primary McConnell in two years and complete the takeover.


True. Maybe Marcus Carey needs to run THAT race.

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## Sola_Fide

> True. Maybe Marcus Carey needs to run THAT race.


Pffft.  After this race, I can never support him again.  His true colors came out.

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## jj-

> Pffft.  After this race, I can never support him again.  His true colors came out.


I'd vote for Donald Duck over McConnell.

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## Sola_Fide

It's going to be interesting to see who the Tea Parties and the Liberty groups will put up for McConnell's seat.

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## jj-

> It's going to be interesting to see who the Tea Parties and the Liberty groups will put up for McConnell's seat.


Yeah, if there is someone good, even better. I just meant that I want to see another name, anyone's, running for that office.

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## sailingaway

> Pffft.  After this race, I can never support him again.  His true colors came out.


I don't know.  Closer to the date we should talk about it again.  Everyone's human, but Marcus has solid Constitutionalist grounding, which isn't to be despised.

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## Jeremy

> I don't know.  Closer to the date we should talk about it again.  Everyone's human, but Marcus has solid Constitutionalist grounding, which isn't to be despised.


He has been dissing Ron and Rand and their (our) views for the past few months....

He's not a Constitutionalist.

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## angelatc

> Pffft.  After this race, I can never support him again.  His true colors came out.


I hear ya.  When this whole race started, I thought that we were lucky to have two candidates that were tolerable.  I didn't actually trust that Carey had come around on foreign policy, but (and I didn't get a vote in KY anyway...) if he won the primary, we'd still have a guy that didn't feel he needed to openly detest us in the seat.

Glad everything worked out the way it was supposed to, because he really did a 180 on his olive branch-ing.  I am really disappointed in the way that relationship worked out.

BUt hey - I've dumped better looking guys than him!

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## sailingaway

> He has been dissing Ron and Rand and their (our) views for the past few months....
> 
> He's not a Constitutionalist.


Why don't you think he is a constitutionalist?  

Remember Rand's interview with the Courier Journal that later came back to bite him? That is when Marcus decided he was going to back Rand, he understood the constitutional arguments.  When Rachael maddow attacked, Carey started giving mini legal seminars on the constitutional principles involved in what Rand had been saying.  When the patriot act was up, he was writing articles about how it undermined the Fourth Amendment and maybe it was time to get rid of it.

I didn't see the bad articles, and I don't know if they are the sort where people just got their nose out of joint and can get over it or not, but I really do think he is a Constitutionalist.  Which isn't to say he is libertarian, but I think he is mindful of Constitutional constraints.

In any event, we haven't even finished this election, so there is no need to get into the next one yet.

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## Thargok

I would ask that people in general refrain from these types of responses.

You are not the candidate, Thomas Massie is, and as such you shouldn't try to put words in the candidate's mouth.

If something is a real threat to the candidate, he will address it, as for a blogger who didn't get double-digit votes, ignore it.

There is no reason to waste your time.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> It's going to be interesting to see who the Tea Parties and the Liberty groups will put up for McConnell's seat.


I would shocked if Rand supported someone challenging McConnell.

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## Sola_Fide

> I would shocked if Rand supported someone challenging McConnell.


You're probably right.  It seemed like Rand had to be dragged in to the Massie race kicking and screaming.  He didn't endorse Moffett even when the Tea Parties were begging for him to. I think it will depend on the candidate.  I also think that the Rand Paul machine in Kentucky can work their wonders without Rand's explicit endorsement.  The Rand Paul machine has really changed Kentucky politics.

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## TruthisTreason

> You're probably right.  It seemed like Rand had to be dragged in to the Massie race kicking and screaming.  He didn't endorse Moffett even when the Tea Parties were begging for him to. I think it will depend on the candidate. * I also think that the Rand Paul machine in Kentucky can work their wonders without Rand's explicit endorsement.*  The Rand Paul machine has really changed Kentucky politics.


I think it says a lot about a candidate who can win without Rand's endorsement or any fundraising emails from Ron or Rand's list. I know of one candidate that did!

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## specsaregood

> I think it says a lot about a candidate who can win without Rand's endorsement or any fundraising emails from Ron or Rand's list. I know of one candidate that did!


This is where you plug that candidate's site.

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## Thargok

> This is where you plug that candidate's site.


Are you asking him to plug himself?

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## specsaregood

> Are you asking him to plug himself?


If you want to be a politician, its something you gotta do, and do alot.

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## brandon

Who's Marcus Carey again, and what's his story? What did he run for?

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## specsaregood

> Who's Marcus Carey again, and what's his story? What did he run for?


He was in the primary against Massie and got massiecred as a result.

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## brandon

oh lol he's the guy that got 1.8% of the vote? Why do we care about him again?

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## BamaFanNKy

> This is where you plug that candidate's site.


http://www.hightowerforkentucky.com/

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## Sola_Fide

> I think it says a lot about a candidate who can win without Rand's endorsement or any fundraising emails from Ron or Rand's list. I know of one candidate that did!


+rep

Haha...absolutely Chris.  My hats off to you.  I'm ultra impressed and I'm happy to see your name popping up everywhere in the news.

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## Sola_Fide

> I don't know.  Closer to the date we should talk about it again.  Everyone's human, but Marcus has solid Constitutionalist grounding, which isn't to be despised.


This will make you reconsider.  His post today:http://www.bluegrassbulletin.com/201...-in-syria.html

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## specsaregood

> This will make you reconsider.  His post today:http://www.bluegrassbulletin.com/201...-in-syria.html


Marcus, obviously trolling for hits.  How low he has sunk.  I wonder why he isn't on the first plane over to syria to fight?

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## Sola_Fide

Nice reply by Adam Love there.

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## aclove

Thanks!

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## Sola_Fide

> Thanks!


+rep

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## jj-

My comment:




> [Marc's Reply: Okay, now you are debating by asking good questions, grasshopper. First, we cut foreign aid to any nation which harbors or gives aid and/or comfort to terrorists...]
> 
> Me: Alright, so we will help Syrians AFTER we cut wasteful foreign aid, eliminate the IRS, close a few departments, change the tax code to encourage investment here, get rid of the federal welfare state, try to send illegals to their countries, cut wasteful military spending, and THEN we will help the Syrians. I can definitely support you on that Marcus.

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## Bastiat's The Law

Marc needs more Daniel Hannan and Michael Scheuer in his life.  He's bought into the fanciful Wilsonian, i.e. liberal notion, that nation building works.

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