# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  Kent Sorenson pleads guilty to accepting payments to switch support

## TaftFan

http://www.kcci.com/news/doj-former-...757234#!bLjaEh

We need to find out who paid him so they aren't working for Rand in 2016.

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## orenbus



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## William Tell

> http://www.kcci.com/news/doj-former-...757234#!bLjaEh
> 
> We need to find out who paid him so they aren't working for Rand in 2016.


Yup, this sort of thing will destroy Rand if it happens again.

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## MaxHen

> We need to find out who paid him so they aren't working for Rand in 2016.


We don't necessarily know that anyone did. It's possible that the DoJ had some evidence that MIGHT suggest bribery, and this guy was so frightened by the slightest prospect that he could end up in jail that he agreed to a plea bargain despite not actually being guilty. Alternatively, the DoJ might've had some evidence that he did something else (remember, this guy resigned from the IA Senate due to evidence of illegal dealings with Bachmann's campaign) and agreed to admit to this in exchange for the DoJ dropping investigation of the other matter.

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## papitosabe

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014...back-ron-paul/

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## Deborah K

> Neither Lori Pyeatt, Ron Paul’s granddaughter and the treasurer of his 2012 presidential campaign, nor Jesse Benton, who was Paul’s campaign manager (and is now manager of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s re-election campaign), had responded to requests for comment at the time this post was published.


This is bad.

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## Natural Citizen

Dang. I think this is the first time that I've ever read anything like this with the statesman's name attached to it in some way.

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## Carlybee

Smells like Jesse Benton to me.

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## luctor-et-emergo

I'm not sure what to say about it... But he did take the money ? What a bastard. (and whomever paid him)

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## green73

> Dang. I think this is the first time that I've ever read anything like this with the statesman's name attached to it in some way.


I'd be really surprised if he knew anything about it. All indications are that he didn't.

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## Deborah K

The Compost just released an article on it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-pay-scheme/

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## green73

> The Compost just released an article on it:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-pay-scheme/


That's very disrespectful to compost, imho.

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## Cleaner44

Who cares?  I couldn't care less if Sorenson and/or Benton go to jail for this.  Sorenson doesn't have integrity and whoever paid him doesn't either.

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## Schifference

Obstructing Justice umm Clapper.

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## Anti Federalist

Earlier story with the memos.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2013...sed-of-trying/

*Politics!*

<spits on the ground>

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## Anti Federalist

> Who cares?  I couldn't care less if Sorenson and/or Benton go to jail for this.  Sorenson doesn't have integrity and whoever paid him doesn't either.


I hate to see Ron's name dragged into it though.




> It isn’t clear if the investigation is continuing, but Sorenson has been granted immunity from further prosecution on federal and state charges, as has his wife, according to the plea agreement.


Count on him singing like a canary, assuming any of this horse$#@! is even true.

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## papitosabe

> I'd be really surprised if he knew anything about it. All indications are that he didn't.


"I disavow any of their actions, I didn't know anything about it."

-Ron Paul

On a serious note, I don't believe RP knew anything about it.  And I can see Benton being elbow deep in it.

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## green73

> Who cares?  I couldn't care less if Sorenson and/or Benton go to jail for this.  Sorenson doesn't have integrity and whoever paid him doesn't either.


This is all about hurting Ron Paul because believe it or not, he still makes the news, places like this are still pretty active...

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## mosquitobite

> "I disavow any of their actions, I didn't know anything about it."
> 
> -Ron Paul
> 
> On a serious note, I don't believe RP knew anything about it.  And I can see Benton being elbow deep in it.


^this

And I hope it's enough to keep Benton miles away from 2016.

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## Anti Federalist

There were some Benton apologists around, hope they get the message...

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## green73

> "I disavow any of their actions, I didn't know anything about it."
> 
> -Ron Paul


What you post in jest just highlights further the madness of politics and central planning.

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## mosquitobite

anyone that wants to get PAID for an endorsement is nothing more than a tick and has no principles.

You either support someone or you don't.  And anyone on any campaign PAYING for an endorsement is a $#@!ty campaign manager!

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## mosquitobite

> What you post in jest just highlights further the madness of politics and central planning.


I've gotten neg repped for it before and will probably again this time...

People call us Paulbots for a reason - we like to see no fault in our own messiah.  But I have always said, sometimes his choice of people surrounding him has pointed to a lack of discernment.  While grace and forgiveness can be good for personal relationships, it doesn't work as well in politics.  And family should not be running the campaign.

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## R.G

Iowa Senator, I'm from Iowa and I think of Senator Grassley and Democrat Harkin.  They have both been there forever.  This guy must be really old.

He is from Milo, never heard of Milo, Iowa.  Maybe former *State Senator* would have been a better title.  That's what the Des Moines Register calls him.

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## William Tell

> Iowa Senator, I'm from Iowa and I think of Senator Grassley and Democrat Harkin.  They have both been there forever.  This guy must be really old.
> 
> He is from Milo, never heard of Milo, Iowa.  Maybe former *State Senator* would have been a better title.  That's what the Des Moines Register calls him.


He was a State Senator.

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## thoughtomator

> Smells like Jesse Benton to me.


Me too! I had a bad feeling about that guy from the very beginning.

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## phill4paul

Where's our resident expert?




> This is just the way the game has to be played. The main point to take away from this is that gains were made. We need to raise more funds through those that have an excellent record of collecting them. This just goes to show how strong we have become.

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## Anti Federalist

> Where's our resident expert?


Under indictment?

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## klamath

One thing is certain a Ron Paul presidency would be going into its first scandal. "What did the president know and when did he know it?"

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## Badger Paul

_"After Sorenson publicly switched his endorsement, Paul’s campaign routed the state senator a total of $73,000 in 2012, transferring the payments through a film production company and another company to conceal the intended recipient, according to court filings. Sorenson wanted the payments kept secret because of Iowa Senate ethics rules that prohibit sitting senators from accepting payments from a political campaign, according to court papers._

Smoking gun right there. The money was laundered. Wasn't a jewlery store involved too?

Sorenson is facing five to 20 in a Federal pen. You think he plead guilty so he could do some easy time? My guess is the Feds will be happy see him pay a fine and pick up trash on the highway for a year. They've got bigger fish to fry.

If I'm Jesse Benton I'm asking Mitch for some D.C legal referrals right about now. Might as well get something out being a glorified gofer. 

_"Yup, this sort of thing will destroy Rand if it happens again."_

It will happen again if he continues to employ the same people. I think Rand can do better than Benton and Tate and the parasites at Sabre Communications.

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## klamath

Ron Paul INC may get hit with this as well.

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## Badger Paul

Indeed. I'm curious to know what ITC is. Collins? Oh Collins?

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## TaftFan

I just remembered the Weigel article on Paul Inc.




> That became more important in 2011. Iowa State Sen. Kent Sorenson, one of the candidates aided by National Right to Work’s 2010 letter program, became a power player in the state’s Republican caucuses. Sorenson endorsed Michele Bachmann, and his Grassroots Strategies group started receiving monthly $7,500 checks from her campaign, which wasn’t even legal in Iowa. He could, in other words, be bought. Later in 2011, according to some documents leaked by Fusaro and some obtained by an investigator in Iowa, the Iowa Gun Association’s Aaron Dorr drafted a proposal under which Sorenson could switch his endorsement to Ron Paul. Dorr’s memo was addressed to John Tate, who’d temporarily left the Campaign for Liberty to manage the 2012 Paul effort. The plan would require Sorenson being paid off secretly.
> 
> “The money for salary and the PAC needs to be paid in advance,” wrote Dorr in the Oct. 29, 2011 memo. “To be blunt, there is an issue of trust involved, likely on both sides, and as a result KS, etc. needs to have the financial side met in advance.” In return, “KS would naturally speak at RP events in Iowa and be visible with him.”
> 
> Dorr’s plan called for the Paul campaign to pay nearly a quarter-million dollars: $100,000 for a PAC to be run by Sorenson, $8,000 a month for the senator, and $5,000 a month for Aaron’s brother Chris Dorr, who was Sorenson’s clerk. Had the plan been carried out, it would have tied the Paul campaign to a career-ending scam.
> 
> But it wasn’t carried out, at least not to completion. Under investigation in 2013, Sorenson handed over to investigators a $25,000 check from Ron Paul’s deputy campaign manager Dimitri Kesari, dated Dec. 26, 2011. Sorenson had endorsed Paul two days later, but the check had never been cashed. Sorenson had previously said as much in a secretly taped phone call with Fusaro, in which he revealed his intention to “give it back,” wondering only whether he should “hold onto it so I have something over” Kesari. Drew Ivers, who introduced Sorenson at the endorsement event, says he was shocked when the senator showed up.
> 
> “I’ve been around for a long time, and I can smell out people pretty good,” says Ivers. “I put distance between Ron Paul and Kent Sorenson and Aaron Dorr.”


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...g_machine.html

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## Brian4Liberty

> Under indictment?


What was it? Five felonies a day?

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## RM918

Amusing that this sort of thing is entirely legal AFTER you're elected - we call it lobbying!

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## Feelgood

Well glad to see my donations, that for all intents and purposes I could not even afford, went to a good cause and not spent frivolously!

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## randomname

Washington Times says he pleaded guilty to "accepting a bribe". How rare, a politician facing jail time over accepting a bribe! Why this guy, and why now? This story is already being used to hurt McConnell and discredit those pesky Pauls 

Former Iowa state senator pleads guilty to accepting bribe in 2012 presidential campaign
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ty-accepting-/

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## Feelgood

I was just thinking, is it any wonder why "money bombs" fail so completely any more? Things like this are almost like getting an IV full of apathy, and pumping it full drip right into my veins. 

This just infuriates me!!!

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## Feeding the Abscess

> Washington Times says he pleaded guilty to "accepting a bribe". How rare, a politician facing jail time over accepting a bribe! Why this guy, and why now? This story is already being used to hurt McConnell and discredit those pesky Pauls 
> 
> Former Iowa state senator pleads guilty to accepting bribe in 2012 presidential campaign
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ty-accepting-/


If the end result of this is that McConnell loses in November, that's more than a fair trade off.

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## Keith and stuff

> Well glad to see my donations, that for all intents and purposes I could not even afford, went to a good cause and not spent frivolously!


At least one story claims the $25,000 check was never cashed.

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## Maltheus

About time. Rand said he wasn't going to announce and pick his team until after the midterms. Surely this will be enough to keep Benton away from the campaign. If it isn't, then he doesn't deserve to win. I had pretty much written off doing the delegate thing again because of all of Benton's dirty dealings in Colorado, but I held on to my precinct chair position just in case he came to his senses. Hopefully they'll go further and throw Benton's ass in jail too. I will gather all local Ron Paulers for a party on the day that happens!

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## pcosmar

> On a serious note, I don't believe RP knew anything about it.  And I can see Benton being elbow deep in it.


I suspect that is true of a whole lot in two campaigns.

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## Shane Harris

So who should his campaign manager be? Doug Wead? Or is he still selling weightloss potion? He seemed more excited about Rand 2016 than Ron 2012, in 2011.

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## William Tell

> About time. Rand said he wasn't going to announce and pick his team until after the midterms. Surely this will be enough to keep Benton away from the campaign. If it isn't, then he doesn't deserve to win. I had pretty much written off doing the delegate thing again because of all of Benton's dirty dealings in Colorado, but I held on to my precinct chair position just in case he came to his senses. Hopefully they'll go further and throw Benton's ass in jail too. I will gather all local Ron Paulers for a party on the day that happens!


I bet he will hire Benton But the r3volution must go on, it's not about Rand.

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## Peace&Freedom

> _"After Sorenson publicly switched his endorsement, Pauls campaign routed the state senator a total of $73,000 in 2012, transferring the payments through a film production company and another company to conceal the intended recipient, according to court filings. Sorenson wanted the payments kept secret because of Iowa Senate ethics rules that prohibit sitting senators from accepting payments from a political campaign, according to court papers._
> 
> Smoking gun right there. The money was laundered. Wasn't a jewlery store involved too?
> 
> Sorenson is facing five to 20 in a Federal pen. You think he plead guilty so he could do some easy time? My guess is the Feds will be happy see him pay a fine and pick up trash on the highway for a year. They've got bigger fish to fry.
> 
> If I'm Jesse Benton I'm asking Mitch for some D.C legal referrals right about now. Might as well get something out being a glorified gofer. 
> 
> _"Yup, this sort of thing will destroy Rand if it happens again."_
> ...


So true. Paul's granddaughter should be getting legal advice as well.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Washington Times says he pleaded guilty to "accepting a bribe". How rare, a politician facing jail time over accepting a bribe! Why this guy, and why now?


Selective enforcement and prosecution. Some animals are more equal than others.

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## Madison320

> Amusing that this sort of thing is entirely legal AFTER you're elected - we call it lobbying!


I was thinking something similar. Where's the crime here? Who's the victim?

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## KingNothing

I don't even remotely care about this.  Mitt Romney funded campaigns of literally dozens, possibly hundreds, of local and state candidates to win their support.  What's the difference?

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## Anti Federalist

> What was it? Five felonies a day?


Was three.

I reckon it's every bit of five now.

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## pcosmar

> Why this guy, and why now?


This has been ongoing for two years,, like since it happened.

There have been a lot of denials.. and obfuscation,, and evidence.

He just plead guilty,, which means a Plea Bargain.  I am wondering what he got for the Bargain? (or what they dropped)

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## thoughtomator

> If the end result of this is that McConnell loses in November, that's more than a fair trade off.


As much as McConnell deserves to be sent home, replacing him with Grimes is not an improvement.

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## devil21

Thing is, this sort of stuff is stupid common in politics.  Not saying it's good or ok but it is common practice to route endorsement payoffs through shell corps and charities.  Most examples don't even get a blink from LE and regulators.  I'm sure this is only 'news' because it's tied to Ron and, by loose extension, Rand.

Happy to say it's more evidence of why Benton better not have any part of Rand's campaign.  He's been a liability from the start.





> Indeed. I'm curious to know what ITC is. Collins? Oh Collins?


ITC?  Name rings a bell.  Where did you see it?  Context?

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## Badger Paul

I saw ITC in this report: 

_How rare, a politician facing jail time over accepting a bribe! Why this guy, and why now?_

Because he accpeted cold, hard cash. Most "bribery" in politics is more subtle and most politicians not as stupid as Sorenson.

Top story on Yahoo.com now.

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## devil21

It's "ICT Inc" in your link.  Probably just a shell corp entity created solely for funneling pay-offs not tied to any particular human name.  Maryland's dept of taxation website doesn't have much info about it.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> As much as McConnell deserves to be sent home, replacing him with Grimes is not an improvement.


Of course it is, McConnell is the kingpin Republican in the Senate. Grimes would simply be a goon.

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## Galileo Galilei

its perfectly legal to pay people for endorsements.  Tiger Woods, Rory McElroy, and Dan Marino get paid all the time.

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## Galileo Galilei

Why pay for an endorsement?  Why not just hire the dude as a campaign manager or consultant, and then get his endorsement as part of the deal?

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## Krugminator2

> Why pay for an endorsement?  Why not just hire the dude as a campaign manager or consultant, and then get his endorsement as part of the deal?


That's actually how it was structured.  This is only illegal because most campaign finance laws are idiotic.

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## phill4paul

> Well glad to see my donations, that for all intents and purposes I could not even afford, went to a good cause and not spent frivolously!


  Being reminded of that does not make me _Feelgood_. I've said it before and I will say it again. If Benton is on the team then the team will not get any support from me. Not even the gas money to go to the poll.

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## Feelgood

> Of course it is, McConnell is the kingpin Republican in the Senate. Grimes would simply be a goon.


That and the fact I do not want to see McConnell as senate majority leader.

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## jjdoyle

> http://www.kcci.com/news/doj-former-...757234#!bLjaEh
> 
> We need to find out who paid him so they aren't working for Rand in 2016.


We already know and have their names. I have shared a video with Bryan, and others here as well. I would give it its own thread, but it would be buried in Hot Topics faster than a "What is the government hiding about 9/11?" thread. I can share the video with you, if you would like it. It's an interview with the guy that helped break the story, and released the phone recording of Jesse Benton talking about working with Mitch McConnell now to help Rand in 2016.

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## Galileo Galilei

> That's actually how it was structured.  This is only illegal because most campaign finance laws are idiotic.


why pay under the table?  Why not just announce Sorenson is a new Iowa consultant, get his endorsement, pay him, and keep the amount undisclosed until after the caucus?

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## snorlax

> why pay under the table?  Why not just announce Sorenson is a new Iowa consultant, get his endorsement, pay him, and keep the amount undisclosed until after the caucus?


That's pretty much exactly how they did it; it was illegal because the Paul campaign explicitly negotiated with Sorenson to get his endorsement as a quid-pro-quo for the payoff, instead of it being an implicit understanding (I happen to give you $25,000, subsequently, by complete coincidence and without my pre-knowledge, you happen to endorse me).

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## randomname

> We already know and have their names. I have shared a video with Bryan, and others here as well. I would give it its own thread, but it would be buried in Hot Topics faster than a "What is the government hiding about 9/11?" thread. I can share the video with you, if you would like it. It's an interview with the guy that helped break the story, and released the phone recording of Jesse Benton talking about working with Mitch McConnell now to help Rand in 2016.


So the press is saving this story for later?

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## jjdoyle

> So the press is saving this story for later?


It's already been reported on some when it originally happened/broke. This is just a continuation of the original story. The FEC is currently investigating the campaign, and there were multiple staffers listed in the complaint to the FEC:
http://theiowarepublican.com/2014/fe...renson-payoff/

Which is why I think the campaign is sitting on so much cash still, to probably help fund the defense fund or certain staffers and/or pay any fees/fines. The campaign has been paying one law firm in the D.C. area several thousand dollars every single quarter, SINCE THE CAMPAIGN ENDED. Yet, it refused donation requests by some supporters, and said the amount on hand was over-stated (despite the FEC reports SHOWING us how much they claimed to have). They were lying, and have been lying, for years about a lot. Wasting people's time, and money. So they could get paychecks and nice cushy jobs?

Here are firms that received payment from Ron Paul 2012 just last quarter:
http://www.leclairryan.com/ ($6,000)
http://www.bblawonline.com/ ($19,000)
http://www.arentfox.com/ ($4,900)
http://www.andrewskurth.com/ ($2,900)


NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, that was in Ron Paul 2012 staff and has continued to defend what was/is a dishonest campaign, should be near Rand in 2016. If anybody wants to listen to an interview, on Ron Paul vs. Ron Paul Inc., here you go:



Not only does he discuss certain individuals by name, but you will also hear how Ron Paul Inc. is trying to filter the "riffraff" at conventions and seminars you may pay to attend. Which is very good to know, BEFORE YOU PAY MONEY, to attend one of them and fill out any paperwork or survey.

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## Maltheus

> So the press is saving this story for later?


Well, it's not October yet, is it?

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## daviddee

...

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## daviddee

...

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## Inkblots

Benton's done.




> Jesse Benton, the GOP political strategist spearheading Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s reelection bid, resigned from his post Friday amid a federal investigation involving a 2012 presidential campaign he ran.
> [...]
> Benton said that “with a heavy heart” he offered his resignation to McConnell (R-Ky.), who “reluctantly accepted.”


Well, the good news here is that Benton won't be allowed within a country mile of Rand 2016 after all of this.  I think we all can be glad Rand has worked so hard to build his own campaign team rather than relying on the somewhat dubious "Paulworld" left over from Ron's campaigns.

The only trouble is that McConnell could be less likely to help Rand's presidential run out, now that Benton's nose-holding effort has tracked mud into his living room.

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## jjdoyle

> Benton's done.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the good news here is that Benton won't be allowed within a country mile of Rand 2016 after all of this.  I think we all can be glad Rand has worked so hard to build his own campaign team rather than relying on the somewhat dubious "Paulworld" left over from Ron's campaigns.
> 
> The only trouble is that McConnell could be less likely to help Rand's presidential run out, now that Benton's nose-holding effort has tracked mud into his living room.


I wonder if John Tate will resign from C4L next? He's one of the listed staffers in the investigation as well.

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## PaleoPaul

Jesse Benton is the #2 trend on Twitter right now.

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## Working Poor

Benton resigning from McConnell's campaign kinda sounds like an admission of guilt.

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## RickyJ

> Jesse Benton is the #2 trend on Twitter right now.


That is how I found out about it. Haven't posted here in a while and thought I could get more info here. I hope Ron Paul's granddaughter was not involved with this, but I can definitely see Benton doing something like this.

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## RickyJ

> Benton resigning from McConnell's campaign kinda sounds like an admission of guilt.


It sounds like he had no choice to me, resign or get fired, resigning looks somewhat better so he chose it instead.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> I wonder if John Tate will resign from C4L next? He's one of the listed staffers in the investigation as well.


Additionally, it'd be nice if people who actually believe in what Ron does control C4L and like organizations. RPI is one such outlet.

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## TaftFan

> Additionally, it'd be nice if people who actually believe in what Ron does control C4L and like organizations. RPI is one such outlet.


That is really the Daniel McAdams/Adam Dick Institute. Ron Paul Curriculum is really Tom Woods/Gary North curriculum.

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## fr33

> Well glad to see my donations, that for all intents and purposes I could not even afford, went to a good cause and not spent frivolously!


It might have been one of the more effective measures that money was spent on during the campaign. Not that it did all that much. A better idea would have been attacking Romney.

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## Badger Paul

We'll Jesse is going to be a little preoccupied because running a campaign (well, sort of running a campaign) and trying to stay out of jail is probably too much for one person to handle. Besides, they can find someone else to open the mail.

In all serious though, this thing broke a year ago. If I was Mitch I would have ditched Benton there and then. There's was no reason to keep him. Matt Bevin already announced his primary challenge so Benton's presence didn't deter that from happening. What was Rand going to do, cry about it? Rand needed Mitch more than vise-versa. Now this explodes again and Benton has to leave reinforcing the image of McConnell as a crooked ass politician.

_The only trouble is that McConnell could be less likely to help Rand's presidential run out, now that Benton's nose-holding effort has tracked mud into his living room._

If McConnell loses then it really doesn't matter who he supports for President, does it?

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## Feeding the Abscess

> That is really the Daniel McAdams/Adam Dick Institute. Ron Paul Curriculum is really Tom Woods/Gary North curriculum.


I'm aware. McAdams was Ron's long-time foreign policy advisor, and Woods has helped Ron write his books. Tate, Rothfeld, etc aren't on board with the ideology Ron espouses.

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## Margo37

> Being reminded of that does not make me _Feelgood_. I've said it before and I will say it again. If Benton is on the team then the team will not get any support from me. Not even the gas money to go to the poll.


Second that!

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## Galileo Galilei

Just a little FYI here:  there was no bribery and Sorenson was not charged with taking bribes.  It is not illegal to give money to campaign people for services rendered.  The Feds are cooperating with Sorenson for other technical charges but not for bribery.

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## New York For Paul

Some of us saw this coming a long time ago and said the campaign staff should be revamped. Much of the old Ron Paul staff is running the Rand Paul operation. Already, Rand got kicked out of the Washington Times for plagerism and now there are bribery charges and convictions. The average voters is not going to be happy and Rand's opponents will milk this for all it is worth. 

The idiots appeared to puts lots of information in emails and there are tape recordings. Who knows how much worse this gets. Instead of talking about issues, the media will be talking about scandal.

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## jjdoyle

> Just a little FYI here:  there was no bribery and Sorenson was not charged with taking bribes.  It is not illegal to give money to campaign people for services rendered.  The Feds are cooperating with Sorenson for other technical charges but not for bribery.


The FEC is still investigating Ron Paul 2012 on charges of bribery apparently, as the article I linked above stated.
Kent Sorenson pleaded guilty to:
"A former Iowa state senator pleaded guilty Wednesday to *concealing campaign expenditures and obstructing justice as part of an endorsement-for-pay scheme that roiled the Iowa Republican caucuses in 2012.

*Kent Sorenson, of Milo, Iowa, admitted in federal district court that former Rep. Ron Paul’s presidential campaign secretly paid him $73,000 after he dramatically dropped his backing of Rep. Michele Bachmann in late 2011 and endorsed Paul’s White House bid, saying at the time that Bachmann was no longer a viable candidate.
A furious Bachmann charged then that Sorenson was being paid to flip his support to Paul -- an accusation that Sorenson, Paul and his campaign officials all denied.


But in court papers filed Wednesday, Sorenson acknowledged that he had been paid by both presidential campaigns."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-pay-scheme/

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## Galileo Galilei

> The FEC is still investigating Ron Paul 2012 on charges of bribery apparently, as the article I linked above stated.
> Kent Sorenson pleaded guilty to:
> "A former Iowa state senator pleaded guilty Wednesday to *concealing campaign expenditures and obstructing justice as part of an endorsement-for-pay scheme that roiled the Iowa Republican caucuses in 2012.
> 
> *Kent Sorenson, of Milo, Iowa, admitted in federal district court that former Rep. Ron Paul’s presidential campaign secretly paid him $73,000 after he dramatically dropped his backing of Rep. Michele Bachmann in late 2011 and endorsed Paul’s White House bid, saying at the time that Bachmann was no longer a viable candidate.
> A furious Bachmann charged then that Sorenson was being paid to flip his support to Paul -- an accusation that Sorenson, Paul and his campaign officials all denied.
> 
> 
> But in court papers filed Wednesday, Sorenson acknowledged that he had been paid by both presidential campaigns."
> ...


OK, and as I said, none of these charges or investigations are for bribery.  Paying for an endorsement is not bribery.  The crime is concealing the money flow.  The feds are looking for some technical charges to draw in Benton or others.  Kesari looks like he will be charged but it could end there.

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## New York For Paul

The fact that we are having these discussions will cost Rand Paul millions in lost donations and thousands of volunteers. The campaign staffers did a huge disservice to Ron Paul and Rand Paul.

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## jjdoyle

> OK, and as I said, none of these charges or investigations are for bribery.  Paying for an endorsement is not bribery.  The crime is concealing the money flow.  The feds are looking for some technical charges to draw in Benton or others.  Kesari looks like he will be charged but it could end there.


Doesn't matter if you call it bribery or not, it was 100% illegal and the campaign knew it. If Sorenson faces $500,000 in fines for his charges, what do you think the campaign will face?
And as I stated before, this could cost Rand Iowa, since politics is VERY local.

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## PaleoPaul

I wonder if Ron Paul's granddaughter will be looking for a divorce attorney on Tuesday, in case the sh*t hits the fan...

----------


## kylejack

From the OpenSecrets article. 


_The Paul campaigns 2012 expenditures reports show that $82,375 was paid to a Hyattsville, Md.-based video company called Interactive Communications, Inc. According to bank records discovered during the Iowa Senate Ethics Committee investigation, Sorenson received payments from a firm called ICT, Inc, based at the same Hyattsville address, that closely matched the payments the campaign made.
For example, the campaign reported to the Federal Election Commission that on Feb. 8, 2012, it paid $38,125 to Interactive Communications. On Feb. 9, ICT Inc. wired Sorenson $33,000. Then, on April 3, the campaign paid Interactive Communications $17,770, and on April 9, ICT wired Sorenson $16,000.
On May 4, the campaign paid Interactive Communications $8,850, and on the same day ICT wired Sorenson $8,000. The same thing happened twice more, with Sorenson pocketing a total of $73,000 from ICT Inc. between February and July of 2012. The Ron Paul presidential campaign paid Interactive Communications $83,375 over the same period._

As someone who donated to the Ron Paul 2012 campaign, I'm outraged.

----------


## jjdoyle

> From the OpenSecrets article. 
> 
> 
> _The Paul campaign’s 2012 expenditures reports show that $82,375 was paid to a Hyattsville, Md.-based video company called Interactive Communications, Inc. According to bank records discovered during the Iowa Senate Ethics Committee investigation, Sorenson received payments from a firm called “ICT, Inc”, based at the same Hyattsville address, that closely matched the payments the campaign made.
> For example, the campaign reported to the Federal Election Commission that on Feb. 8, 2012, it paid $38,125 to Interactive Communications. On Feb. 9, ICT Inc. wired Sorenson $33,000. Then, on April 3, the campaign paid Interactive Communications $17,770, and on April 9, ICT wired Sorenson $16,000.
> On May 4, the campaign paid Interactive Communications $8,850, and on the same day ICT wired Sorenson $8,000. The same thing happened twice more, with Sorenson pocketing a total of $73,000 from ICT Inc. between February and July of 2012. The Ron Paul presidential campaign paid Interactive Communications $83,375 over the same period._
> 
> As someone who donated to the Ron Paul 2012 campaign, I'm outraged.


And you have every right to be. We are/were not supposed to be the same as other campaigns, and politicians. Did you see the "open letter" article posted just today, now bringing up a possible payoff for a sexual harassment complaint?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...er-to-Ron-Paul

----------


## kylejack

Thanks for the link. Here's the video of Ron saying nobody paid Sorenson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH3Dd4CfJLg#t=8m45s

So either someone is going to fall on a sword or we'll have to see how high knowledge of this bribe goes.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Doesn't matter if you call it bribery or not, it was 100% illegal and the campaign knew it. If Sorenson faces $500,000 in fines for his charges, what do you think the campaign will face?
> And as I stated before, this could cost Rand Iowa, since politics is VERY local.


I don't think this will affect Rand Paul.  I wouldn't get too worried about it.

----------


## kylejack

Benton's looking pretty strongly implicated in the bribe. It will be interesting to see if he falls on a sword or if he cuts a deal to implicate others in the campaign or even Ron Paul himself.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Benton's looking pretty strongly implicated in the bribe. It will be interesting to see if he falls on a sword or if he cuts a deal to implicate others in the campaign or even Ron Paul himself.


There was no "bribe".  Nor can anyone be charged with knowing about a non-bribe.  The charge the feds might be looking at is knowing that a campaign finance report was not filled out accurately.  However:

* Sorenson was not charged with taking bribes even though the prosecutors know he took money for endorsements from both the Paul and Bachmann campaigns.

* Sorenson pleaded guilty to "causing a finance report to be filled out inaccurately".  That is goods news for Jesse Benton, not bad news, because it shows that Sorenson was culpable for the bad finance report.

Basically, Kasari looks like he will be charged with something, not Benton.

----------


## kylejack

> There was no "bribe".  Nor can anyone be charged with knowing about a non-bribe.  The charge the feds might be looking at is knowing that a campaign finance report was not filled out accurately.  However:
> 
> * Sorenson was not charged with taking bribes even though the prosecutors know he took money for endorsements from both the Paul and Bachmann campaigns.
> 
> * Sorenson pleaded guilty to "causing a finance report to be filled out inaccurately".  That is goods news for Jesse Benton, not bad news, because it shows that Sorenson was culpable for the bad finance report.
> 
> Basically, Kasari looks like he will be charged with something, not Benton.


Sorenson plead down and was granted immunity. Immunity generally means they intend to use him to prosecute someone else.

----------


## klamath

> Sorenson plead down and was granted immunity. *Immunity generally means they intend to use him to prosecute someone else*.


Pretty much that. The fact that it involves the campaign manager for the senate minority leader will make it very valuable to push every angle.

----------


## jjdoyle

> Sorenson plead down and was granted immunity. Immunity generally means they intend to use him to prosecute someone else.


And the campaign has been sitting on lots of cash since the campaign ended, and in the recent FEC report had paid four different law/litigation firms several thousand dollars each. One of them, based on its website, apparently does cases in trying to get fees/fines reduced.

If Sorenson is facing $500,000 in potential fines, I can only imagine what charges would be directly against a campaign that was filing the FEC reports.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Sorenson plead down and was granted immunity. Immunity generally means they intend to use him to prosecute someone else.


Yes, they will try to prosecute someone else, not likely Jesse Benton and not for bribery.  Also, the best snitches snitch BEFORE they are charged with a crime.  Sorenson is not only charged with crimes, but convicted of 2 of them.  Sorenson is probably a fairly worthless actual witness, they will have to have physical evidence or other witnesses to nail anyone else.

The reason Sorenson is a bad witness is because he must have resisted the prosecution initially, that is why he was charged and then convicted.  Since he resisted prosecution, he likely made numerous statements contrary to what the feds wanted him to say before he flipped.  Hence, a defense attorney can use the initial statements by Sorenson to defend others.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> And the campaign has been sitting on lots of cash since the campaign ended, and in the recent FEC report had paid four different law/litigation firms several thousand dollars each. One of them, base on the website, specifies in trying to get fees/fines reduced apparently.
> 
> If Sorenson is facing $500,000 in potential fines, I can only imagine what charges would be directly against a campaign that was filing the FEC reports.


Sorenson already took the blame for the faulty FEC report, he pleaded guilty to a specific crime of causing others to file a faulty FEC report.

----------


## jjdoyle

> Sorenson already took the blame for the faulty FEC report, he pleaded guilty to a specific crime of causing others to file a faulty FEC report.


Yes, just because there is one that pleads, doesn't mean there won't be more. And we don't know what was in the sealed documents with his plea.
Also, there is a slight difference between a conviction and a plea agreement. We don't know yet if Sorenson will be convicted/punished by the judge yet, or if he is being offered some major leniency for his testimony and evidence against others.

----------


## kylejack

It sure looks like laundering money to me. Also, the articles I've read say buying an endorsement is illegal under Iowa law, at the very least. And I imagine this can't look good for the campaign treasurer either.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Yes, just because there is one that pleads, doesn't mean there won't be more. And we don't know what was in the sealed documents with his plea.
> Also, there is a slight difference between a conviction and a plea agreement. We don't know yet if Sorenson will be convicted/punished by the judge yet, or if he is being offered some major leniency for his testimony and evidence against others.


They are going after Kesari.  They got nothing on Benton.  What crime are you proposing that Benton committed?

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Yes, just because there is one that pleads, doesn't mean there won't be more. And we don't know what was in the sealed documents with his plea.
> Also, there is a slight difference between a conviction and a plea agreement. We don't know yet if Sorenson will be convicted/punished by the judge yet, or if he is being offered some major leniency for his testimony and evidence against others.


Sorenson is already convinced of 2 crimes.  As I said before, the good snitches do it before they are charged.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> It sure looks like laundering money to me. Also, the articles I've read say buying an endorsement is illegal under Iowa law, at the very least. And I imagine this can't look good for the campaign treasurer either.


This is a federal investigation.

----------


## kylejack

> This is a federal investigation.


Sure, but state authorities can use evidence the feds uncovered. Not against Sorenson because of his immunity deal.

----------


## kylejack

> They are going after Kesari.  They got nothing on Benton.  What crime are you proposing that Benton committed?


We shall see. His abrupt resignation makes me wonder what hadn't been revealed yet.

----------


## jjdoyle

> They are going after Kesari. They got nothing on Benton. What crime are you proposing that Benton committed?


Jesse Benton was aware of it in November 2011. And it doesn't matter if it's Jesse, Kesari, or Tate, or NONE of them, if the campaign is spending one dime on legal advice because of this stupid decision, as is evidenced in the latest FEC report. It's a waste of supporters' money, and some supporters asked for a refund, and were denied.




> "OpenSecrets.org has learned that two grand juries have been investigating the events in Iowa, one focused on the Paul campaign and one on Bachmann’s. Last August, OpenSecrets.org published a copy of a memo written by Aaron Dorr, the head of the Iowa Gun Owners, in which he outlined Sorenson’s demands to switch his endorsement. Included in the emails surrounding the negotiations were several top Paul campaign officials, including Benton.
> Nobody has been indicted in connection with making the payments to Sorenson."


https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...back-ron-paul/

And they usually offer a plea deal, if they have a bigger fish to fry. And I think this fish, was sitting on $800K as of July. Sorenson can't pay the fines. So, they will go after the campaign.
Again, Jesse was aware of the Sorenson issue from at least November 2011. Sorenson didn't start getting under-the-table payment from Ron Paul 2012 through the shell company until 2012.

Who was in charge of the shell company that made the payments to Sorenson (maybe Kesari?), but who approved the payments from Ron Paul 2012 to the shell company?
That's why I said you could have more than one plea agreement here. They could get Kesari on offering the check, and he could say, "It wasn't me, it was the Manager and Chairman (Tate & Benton)."
And since they already have him on charges, they could say, "If you plead guilty on these charges, we'll offer you reduced sentencing for your cooperation and testimony against the others."

But again, doesn't matter if it's Benton, Tate, Kesari, or the others listed in the complaint, or none of them, if Ron Paul 2012 is wasting funds on this stupid issue. As is evidenced in the FEC reports.

----------


## kylejack

So far I don't see a Benton smoking gun, just an e-mail he sent asking if Sorenson would be joining the campaign. I suppose it's possible that Kesari paid Sorenson off without Benton's knowledge, and told Sorenson not to mention the payoff to Benton. 

I don't personally find it very probable. The chairman of the campaign would have no knowledge of $80K going out the door? I doubt it.

----------


## kylejack

_Bachmann’s Iowa political director, Wes Enos, who like Sorenson joined her campaign in its first days, released a statement under Ron Paul’s letterhead refuting Bachmann’s assertion that Sorenson had been paid to go. Sorenson and Enos both say the state senator decided to back Paul because he had many friends on that campaign, and believed Paul has the best chance of winning._
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ign-officials/

So the Ron Paul 2012 campaign published on their letterhead a statement from Wes Enos that they should have known to be false... They _had_ agreed to pay Sorenson for the endorsement but let Enos lie.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Sure, but state authorities can use evidence the feds uncovered. Not against Sorenson because of his immunity deal.


There won't be any bribery charges.  Even if there is a state law that could be construed in the way you want it, the feds want the glory.  The state law, if it exists as you claim, is unconstitutional.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> We shall see. His abrupt resignation makes me wonder what hadn't been revealed yet.


The resignation is a prudent precautionary measure for political reasons.  The media and the democrats will spend less time on the issue because of it.  In the end, this will be a footnote to history.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Jesse Benton was aware of it in November 2011. And it doesn't matter if it's Jesse, Kesari, or Tate, or NONE of them, if the campaign is spending one dime on legal advice because of this stupid decision, as is evidenced in the latest FEC report. It's a waste of supporters' money, and some supporters asked for a refund, and were denied.
> 
> 
> https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...back-ron-paul/
> 
> And they usually offer a plea deal, if they have a bigger fish to fry. And I think this fish, was sitting on $800K as of July. Sorenson can't pay the fines. So, they will go after the campaign.
> Again, Jesse was aware of the Sorenson issue from at least November 2011. Sorenson didn't start getting under-the-table payment from Ron Paul 2012 through the shell company until 2012.
> 
> Who was in charge of the shell company that made the payments to Sorenson (maybe Kesari?), but who approved the payments from Ron Paul 2012 to the shell company?
> ...


Benton may have known some of the details about it, but Sorenson already pleaded guilty to the crime of causing a false FEC report to be written.  Hence if Benton were charged with conspiracy to write a false FEC report, he would clear himself by blaming it on Sorenson.

And I should also add there other factors at work.  There is knowing with first hand knowledge, and there is "knowing" as in hearing about it 2nd-hand or third-hand.  Benton very likely had no first hand knowledge of the deal which sounds stupid on its face.  Why pay $80K for a state senator endorsement?  Why not just hire the dude as a consultant, the salary would not show up until the FEC repot due by April 15.

----------


## jjdoyle

> The resignation is a prudent precautionary measure for political reasons.  The media and the democrats will spend less time on the issue because of it.  In the end, this will be a footnote to history.


Do you know what was in the sealed documents with the plea agreement, and why Ron Paul 2012 lied to supporters during/after the campaign and turned down refund requests?

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Do you know what was in the sealed documents with the plea agreement, and why Ron Paul 2012 lied to supporters during/after the campaign and turned down refund requests?


Not exactly, but I know buying an endorsement is not bribery in the legal sense.  I also know that good snitches flip right away before they are charged with any crimes.  The feds are looking for someone and something to charge.  It is highly improbable that Jesse Benton will be charged.  They are going to charge Dimitri Kesari it looks like.  What exactly is your beef?

----------


## jjdoyle

> Not exactly, but I know buying an endorsement is not bribery in the legal sense.  I also know that good snitches flip right away before they are charged with any crimes.  The feds are looking for someone and something to charge.  It is highly improbable that Jesse Benton will be charged.  They are going to charge Dimitri Kesari it looks like.  What exactly is your beef?


My beef? A campaign that was openly lying to supporters for months to simply string them along for more money, wasting months of time and millions of dollars in funds, and then turning down a few refund requests after ending with more than a million cash-on-hand.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> My beef? A campaign that was openly lying to supporters for months to simply string them along for more money, wasting months of time and millions of dollars in funds, and then turning down a few refund requests after ending with more than a million cash-on-hand.


Lying about what?  Who was lying?  Sorenson is the one who lied and caused the false FEC report to be written.  And Ron Paul 2012 denying a bribe is true because it is not a bribe to hire a state senator for your campaign.

----------


## fr33

> And Ron Paul 2012 denying a bribe is true because it is not a bribe to hire a state senator for your campaign.


Well sure it is. $80k with no receipt for services rendered. The payed him to leave the person he was first supporting publically and do a few appearances supporting RP. Regardless of legal technicalities, anyone can see that for what it is; a bribe.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Well sure it is. $80k with no receipt for services rendered. The payed him to leave the person he was first supporting publically and do a few appearances supporting RP. Regardless of legal technicalities, anyone can see that for what it is; a bribe.


Really it's a bribe?  So what about the people who pay Tiger Woods and Lebron James for endorsements?  Huh?

----------


## fr33

> Really it's a bribe?  So what about the people who pay Tiger Woods and Lebron James for endorsements?  Huh?


If they made it clear that they supported another very different brand before, yeah. I'm not saying it should even be prosecuted. This was one of those rare examples of the campaign spending money proactively.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> If they made it clear that they supported another very different brand before, yeah. I'm not saying it should even be prosecuted. This was one of those rare examples of the campaign spending money proactively.


I think there was a deep plant buried inside the campaign.  There is no other way to explain the known facts.  If you want Sorenson, you just outbid Bachmann for his services, pay him January 1, 2012, and report the payments on April 15, 2012 when the 1Q report is due.  You do not need to launder money, lie to the people making FEC reports, or lie to investigators.  And $80K for a state senator looks like way too much to pay even granted it was just before the Iowa caucus.

Another weird thing is that Bachmann knew about it right away, Sorenson told her it appears.  This is inexplicable.

----------


## jjdoyle

> Lying about what?  Who was lying?  Sorenson is the one who lied and caused the false FEC report to be written.  And Ron Paul 2012 denying a bribe is true because it is not a bribe to hire a state senator for your campaign.


Anybody else sending fundraising emails telling supporters there was a delegate strategy. It was a lie. Simply to drag supporters along, to continue to milk them for money.
Sending emails stating, "Every single dollar will go toward winning this race, putting Ron Paul in the White House, and taking our country back." was a lie.
Ron Paul 2012 agreed as far back as February 2012 to not attack Mitt Romney due to a threat from Romney's campaign, and Ron Paul 2012 didn't let supporters know about that decision (though it was obvious to some of us during the campaign) until Doug Wead was interviewed about it at the RNC.

----------


## extortion17

> . . . We need to find out who paid him so they aren't working for Rand in 2016.


great idea . . . 
even make it into a watergate-type scandal jus' to keep the Woodward and Bernstein types busy during WW III -
which will be well underway by the January 2017 inauguration of the 45th President of these United States

oh, and welcome to twentynine palms . . .
 enjoy your brief stay here before your boots are trampling in the arid Levant soil and sand to fight ISIL

.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Anybody else sending fundraising emails telling supporters there was a delegate strategy. It was a lie. Simply to drag supporters along, to continue to milk them for money.
> Sending emails stating, "Every single dollar will go toward winning this race, putting Ron Paul in the White House, and taking our country back." was a lie.
> Ron Paul 2012 agreed as far back as February 2012 to not attack Mitt Romney due to a threat from Romney's campaign, and Ron Paul 2012 didn't let supporters know about that decision (though it was obvious to some of us during the campaign) until Doug Wead was interviewed about it at the RNC.


sounds like a strategy disagreement, not a lie.

----------


## kylejack

> Lying about what?  Who was lying?  Sorenson is the one who lied and caused the false FEC report to be written.  And Ron Paul 2012 denying a bribe is true because it is not a bribe to hire a state senator for your campaign.


Ron Paul said in a Fox News interview Sorenson wasn't paid. He was. The campaign published on their letterhead a statement from a Bachmann employee that Sorenson wasn't paid and wasn't motivated by financial incentive. This was a lie and he was. Lies lies lies.

----------


## kylejack

> Another weird thing is that Bachmann knew about it right away, Sorenson told her it appears.  This is inexplicable.


Sorenson is an idiot, no doubt. He told her he got a better offer, it seems.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Ron Paul said in a Fox News interview Sorenson wasn't paid. He was. The campaign published on their letterhead a statement from a Bachmann employee that Sorenson wasn't paid and wasn't motivated by financial incentive. This was a lie and he was. Lies lies lies.


He said he wasn't paid or he said he wasn't bribed?

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Sorenson is an idiot, no doubt. He told her he got a better offer, it seems.


Sorenson = IDIOT.

----------


## kylejack

> He said he wasn't paid or he said he wasn't bribed?


"She alleges that he said that your campaign was paying him to jump ship. Simple question, did your campaign, or anyone connected to your campaign, or anyone speaking on behalf of it, or any third party vendor, did any of them offer money to Kent Sorenson to come on board your campaign?"

Ron: "No, and if she has the evidence she should bring it forth, because if she makes charges like that she should be able to defend it, but no, that did not happen."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH3Dd4CfJLg#t=8m43s

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> "She alleges that he said that your campaign was paying him to jump ship. Simple question, did your campaign, or anyone connected to your campaign, or anyone speaking on behalf of it, or any third party vendor, did any of them offer money to Kent Sorenson to come on board your campaign?"
> 
> Ron: "No, and if she has the evidence she should bring it forth, because if she makes charges like that she should be able to defend it, but no, that did not happen."
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH3Dd4CfJLg#t=8m43s


OK, so that means Ron did not have the evidence then.  There was a plant deep inside the campaign attempting to sabotage it.

----------


## kylejack

> OK, so that means Ron did not have the evidence then.  There was a plant deep inside the campaign attempting to sabotage it.


Considering they were able to send Sorenson $80K, probably someone pretty high.

----------


## jjdoyle

> sounds like a strategy disagreement, not a lie.


No. You can't claim there is a delegate strategy, and that you need funds to run ads in California and Texas, and then never do so.
You can't claim there is some magic delegate strategy, and then have a defense of an endorsement of Mitt Romney on your campaign site, BEFORE the convention.

Ron Paul 2012 agreed in February 2012, before Michigan, to not attack Mitt Romney. In February 2012, Ron Paul 2012 should have closed shop. Like many campaigns before it. The dishonest, lying, corrupt campaign, kept dragging supporters along though, not just wasting their money, but also their time.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Considering they were able to send Sorenson $80K, probably someone pretty high.


No, the money was laundered to hide it from the higher ups.  It was broken into small pieces.

----------


## kylejack

> No, the money was laundered to hide it from the higher ups.  It was broken into small pieces.


The alternative theory is that the money was laundered to hide it from the FEC.

----------


## New York For Paul

That extra million dollars sitting in the campaign today could have won Iowa or New Hampshire.

----------


## Peace&Freedom

> No. You can't claim there is a delegate strategy, and that you need funds to run ads in California and Texas, and then never do so.
> You can't claim there is some magic delegate strategy, and then have a defense of an endorsement of Mitt Romney on your campaign site, BEFORE the convention.
> 
> Ron Paul 2012 agreed in February 2012, before Michigan, to not attack Mitt Romney. In February 2012, Ron Paul 2012 should have closed shop. Like many campaigns before it. The dishonest, lying, corrupt campaign, kept dragging supporters along though, not just wasting their money, but also their time.


As some have postulated, the Paul Inc. decision to use Ron Paul's candidacies to build a broad, longer-term base for Rand's eventual campaign may have been made as early as 2007 (or certainly, by post-2008). The whole bait and switch of post February 2012, where donations were still asked for the CAMPAIGN, was done to actually build up the infrastructure for the Paul Inc. machine for the years after. This in turn is similar to the mid 2008 scenario where funds were still raised or not spent for the CAMPAIGN, then converted into the early kiddy for Campaign for Liberty.

I don't mind the Paul team created CFL per se, or wanted to build the Paul machine long term. What stinks is the bait and switch---supporters should have been cleanly told in February 2008 that the campaign was really OVER, and *then* given a _choice_ about having their campaign donations converted into launching CFL. Supporters should have been cleanly told in February 2012 that the campaign was really OVER, and *then* given a _choice_ about having their campaign donations converted into launching Rand's run in 2015-2016. Diverting what was intended to be funds for a current campaign into early money for future endeavors discredits the Paul team, who apparently did not trust their own movement enough to level with them upfront about what they wanted to use the funds for.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> The alternative theory is that the money was laundered to hide it from the FEC.


That's true, too, but Sorenson already plead guilty to that.

----------


## kylejack

> That's true, too, but Sorenson already plead guilty to that.


The thing about criminal conspiracies is that they involve more than one criminal.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> The thing about criminal conspiracies is that they involve more than one criminal.


Sorenson has not plead to any conspiracy.

----------


## kylejack

> Sorenson has not plead to any conspiracy.


He pleaded down in return for immunity on other charges. It will be interesting to see what's in the sealed documents.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> He pleaded down in return for immunity on other charges. It will be interesting to see what's in the sealed documents.


The problem with that is that good snitches roll over BEFORE they are charged.  By pleading guilty it makes Sorenson worthless witness.  The fact that he lied to investigators means he is an unwilling snitch and has already made statements beneficial to Benton.

----------


## kylejack

> The problem with that is that good snitches roll over BEFORE they are charged.  By pleading guilty it makes Sorenson worthless witness.  The fact that he lied to investigators means he is an unwilling snitch and has already made statements beneficial to Benton.


I'm not saying he's smart, but he may be in possession of evidence.

----------


## Deborah K

> As some have postulated, the Paul Inc. decision to use Ron Paul's candidacies to build a broad, longer-term base for Rand's eventual campaign may have been made as early as 2007 (or certainly, by post-2008). The whole bait and switch of post February 2012, where donations were still asked for the CAMPAIGN, was done to actually build up the infrastructure for the Paul Inc. machine for the years after. This in turn is similar to the mid 2008 scenario where funds were still raised or not spent for the CAMPAIGN, then converted into the early kiddy for Campaign for Liberty.
> 
> I don't mind the Paul team created CFL per se, or wanted to build the Paul machine long term. What stinks is the bait and switch---supporters should have been cleanly told in February 2008 that the campaign was really OVER, and *then* given a _choice_ about having their campaign donations converted into launching CFL. Supporters should have been cleanly told in February 2012 that the campaign was really OVER, and *then* given a _choice_ about having their campaign donations converted into launching Rand's run in 2015-2016. Diverting what was intended to be funds for a current campaign into early money for future endeavors discredits the Paul team, *who apparently did not trust their own movement enough to level with them upfront about what they wanted to use the funds for.*


*

*

+rep

----------


## JK/SEA

''let it not be said we did nothing'''

we tried..

we failed...

we learned..

we're still here..

the brush fires are still burning...

move on...keep fighting...we have to..

that is all..

----------


## Deborah K

> ''let it not be said we did nothing'''
> 
> we tried..
> 
> we failed...
> 
> we learned..
> 
> we're still here..
> ...


"The time has come to act.
May future generations look back on our work
and say that these were men and women who,
in a moment of great crisis, stood up
to the politicians, the opinion-molders,
and the establishment, and saved their country."

_Congressman Ron Paul
_

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> I'm not saying he's smart, but he may be in possession of evidence.


evidence of what!  What evidence?

----------


## kylejack

> evidence of what!  What evidence?


Evidence that Jesse Benton was aware of the bribe. 

What we know: Jesse had expressed his interest in recruiting Sorenson as a supporter. The intermediary had contacted the campaign with Sorenson's demands for money. Kesari (and possibly others) came through with the money.

So the questions are: What did Jesse know and when did he know it? What did the campaign treasurer know and when did she know it? 

The answers to those questions may be in the sealed documents.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Evidence that Jesse Benton was aware of the bribe. 
> 
> What we know: Jesse had expressed his interest in recruiting Sorenson as a supporter. The intermediary had contacted the campaign with Sorenson's demands for money. Kesari (and possibly others) came through with the money.
> 
> So the questions are: What did Jesse know and when did he know it? What did the campaign treasurer know and when did she know it? 
> 
> The answers to those questions may be in the sealed documents.


There was no bribe.  It is not illegal for the Ron Paul campaign to hire someone for campaign services.

----------


## kylejack

> There was no bribe.  It is not illegal for the Ron Paul campaign to hire someone for campaign services.


As several articles have stated, the payment was illegal under Iowa law at the very least. Then there are the intricacies of the fact that it was laundered to make the payoff to consider.

I predict that you are going to have to eat crow before me.

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## Galileo Galilei

> As several articles have stated, the payment was illegal under Iowa law at the very least. Then there are the intricacies of the fact that it was laundered to make the payoff to consider.
> 
> I predict that you are going to have to eat crow before me.


You are relying upon off-hand comments by young liberal journalists who have been duped by the calculations of devious federal prosecutors.  There is no bribery here, otherwise the Bachmann campaign would have been charged with bribery.

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## kylejack

> You are relying upon off-hand comments by young liberal journalists who have been duped by the calculations of devious federal prosecutors.  There is no bribery here, otherwise the Bachmann campaign would have been charged with bribery.


Who says they won't? A former employee of the Bachmann campaign has filed an FEC complaint against the Bachmann campaign for this very reason. FEC is investigating.

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## Carlybee

> As some have postulated, the Paul Inc. decision to use Ron Paul's candidacies to build a broad, longer-term base for Rand's eventual campaign may have been made as early as 2007 (or certainly, by post-2008). The whole bait and switch of post February 2012, where donations were still asked for the CAMPAIGN, was done to actually build up the infrastructure for the Paul Inc. machine for the years after. This in turn is similar to the mid 2008 scenario where funds were still raised or not spent for the CAMPAIGN, then converted into the early kiddy for Campaign for Liberty.
> 
> I don't mind the Paul team created CFL per se, or wanted to build the Paul machine long term. What stinks is the bait and switch---supporters should have been cleanly told in February 2008 that the campaign was really OVER, and *then* given a _choice_ about having their campaign donations converted into launching CFL. Supporters should have been cleanly told in February 2012 that the campaign was really OVER, and *then* given a _choice_ about having their campaign donations converted into launching Rand's run in 2015-2016. Diverting what was intended to be funds for a current campaign into early money for future endeavors discredits the Paul team, who apparently did not trust their own movement enough to level with them upfront about what they wanted to use the funds for.



That's pretty much the way a lot of us felt about it at the time. Especially too after learning what some of the salaries being paid amounted to. There were a lot of grass roots people donating money they really couldn't even afford to donate.

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## Galileo Galilei

> Who says they won't? A former employee of the Bachmann campaign has filed an FEC complaint against the Bachmann campaign for this very reason. FEC is investigating.


Why would the Bachmann campaign tell the Feds they were out-bribed by the Paul campaign?  Sounds really stupid to me, you'd have to really hate Jesse Benton to believe crap like that.

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## kylejack

> Why would the Bachmann campaign tell the Feds they were out-bribed by the Paul campaign?  Sounds really stupid to me, you'd have to really hate Jesse Benton to believe crap like that.


That's not what I said.

A disgruntled former employee of the Bachmann campaign filed a complaint with the FEC that the Bachmann campaign had paid for Sorenson's endorsement, which opened an FEC investigation, which is still ongoing. I believe Fusaro (a former Ron Paul campaign employee) filed the complaint against the Paul campaign.

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## Galileo Galilei

> That's not what I said.
> 
> A disgruntled former employee of the Bachmann campaign filed a complaint with the FEC that the Bachmann campaign had paid for Sorenson's endorsement, which opened an FEC investigation, which is still ongoing. I believe Fusaro (a former Ron Paul campaign employee) filed the complaint against the Paul campaign.


Makes no sense, it is not illegal to hire people for a campaign to do endorsements.

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## kylejack

> Makes no sense, it is not illegal to hire people for a campaign to do endorsements.


I believe it relates to in-kind contribution. If you pay someone to endorse you, you should list it on your FEC filing as such rather than lying to the FEC and pretending it was for video services.

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## Galileo Galilei

> I believe it relates to in-kind contribution. If you pay someone to endorse you, you should list it on your FEC filing as such rather than lying to the FEC and pretending it was for video services.


That's true, but them the issue just becomes boring technical violations rather than real crimes.

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## jjdoyle

> That's true, but them the issue just becomes boring technical violations rather than real crimes.


I would guess the prosecutors didn't offer Kent Sorenson a plea deal, so they could nail someone else with technical violations.
UNLESS, they are going to end up with the large majority of the remainder of campaign funds from Ron Paul 2012 because of those technical violations, as you are calling them.
Sorenson's lawyer used the word "others" to describe who Kent had done this with. Plural, not singular.

So, let's all hope that these "technical violations" don't waste more supporters' donations given to a campaign to elect Ron Paul, and instead for months were used to help Mitt Romney win the nomination.

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## jmdrake

> We don't necessarily know that anyone did. It's possible that the DoJ had some evidence that MIGHT suggest bribery, and this guy was so frightened by the slightest prospect that he could end up in jail that he agreed to a plea bargain despite not actually being guilty. Alternatively, the DoJ might've had some evidence that he did something else (remember, this guy resigned from the IA Senate due to evidence of illegal dealings with Bachmann's campaign) and agreed to admit to this in exchange for the DoJ dropping investigation of the other matter.


Sounds like the wishful thinking that went into the whole "We're campaigning for a brokered convention" fiasco.

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## orenbus

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...91#post5646891
McConnell Campaign Manager Subpoenaed in Bribery Case Before He Resigned

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## idiom

> Makes no sense, it is not illegal to hire people for a campaign to do endorsements.


Its bloody immoral though. _Especially if you say you didn't pay the dude to endorse you._

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## idiom

For the people who don't get it....

*Hands up if you are okay with your donation being used to secretly buy endorsements, even if done in a legal way?*

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## fr33

> For the people who don't get it....
> 
> *Hands up if you are okay with your donation being used to secretly buy endorsements, even if done in a legal way?*


I'm not ok with it but there are worse things the campaign did in my opinion; or just as bad. Like paying Benton several hundreds of thousands of dollars while losing so he could go on and slither into the establishment's ranks and continuing to ask for money even when it's clear they weren't trying to win(after the email went out saying Romney was the nominee). The usual apologist response is that Benton was paid for reimbursements but I remember news stories talking about how itemized Ron's campaign expenses were and how even fast food orders were listed, yet Benton's reimbursements have never been itemized. Ron did some great things in his political career and the campaigns helped gather liberty people together but still.... he was a grifter. I don't believe that he didn't know about Sorenson or Benton's activities.

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## devil21

Anyone else think this is directly related to C4L's 'IRS' problem?  Lots of lawyers getting paid right now...

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## green73

*Sorenson tests positive for weed, violates probation*

http://www.cbs2iowa.com/news/feature...on-30817.shtml

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## phill4paul

> *Sorenson tests positive for weed, violates probation*
> 
> http://www.cbs2iowa.com/news/feature...on-30817.shtml


  Whoa, wait, wut?




> Sorenson faces 25 years in prison for hiding about $73,000 from Paul’s campaign.


  $73k?

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## staerker

Bribery charges in politics are laughable. 

Breaking news! Politician accepts money from someone other than a bank or corporation! 

Don't get too excited.

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## jon4liberty

Clearly this is directed at the Liberty Movement(Ron and Rand especially). People who have brought that up to me knowing I am a RP supporter have been surprised when I say "Let those scumbag spineless twerps rot in a jail cell, they are not in the liberty movement" I think people expect me to defend of which I don't. People still get surprised when I tell them that Ron didn't take any benefits and returned any surpluses in his budget back to the state.

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