# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Prosperity >  Looking to invest in precious metals, need advice

## zHorns

I’m thinking about starting to invest in precious metals and need some advice.

Basically, I’m 21, run a small business, own a car outright, no debts and can easily pay my current load of bills with my income, but, rather than transferring “extra” income to my saving account every month, I tend to spend it on things that aren’t really necessary.

Ultimately, I feel like I’m not working towards something long-term.

So, I thought it would be smarter to start placing some of that extra income into a long-term investment plan, which involves me buying 1oz silver coins a few times a month and over time building a nice size stockpile without a large initial investment; I don’t have the savings to go drop thousands right now on much of anything.

I've never owned precious metals, so I need some advice. Any info would help.

_Does anyone have an advice?
Should I wait and see if silver drops?
Is this a good or bad idea?
And if good, where should I buy?_

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## WilliamC

Buy either 1 ounce silver American Eagles or 1 ounce gold coins/bars as you have cash flow to do so from either local coin stores (if they don't charge much more than the mark-up you would normally pay from APMEX) or better yet the same from private individuals.

Always pay cash, never create paperwork, and pretend that you lost them in a boating accident.

Precious metals are not an investment per se, but insurance against the unknown. 

Now if you get to the lucky point in life where you have enough cash and PMs stashed away that you feel foolish for holding any more, then you may need to start thinking of more normal investment strategies, like owning stocks in mining companies or such, but I've never been fortunate to be this rich and I never will be.

When it comes time to sell/trade, again, private individuals, and no one else needs to ever know about it.

I just wish I had more than the handful of old silver dimes to my name, then maybe my opinion would be worth something

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## zHorns

> Buy either 1 ounce silver American Eagles or 1 ounce gold coins/bars as you have cash flow to do so from either local coin stores (if they don't charge much more than the mark-up you would normally pay from APMEX) or better yet the same from private individuals.
> 
> Always pay cash, never create paperwork, and pretend that you lost them in a boating accident.
> 
> Precious metals are not an investment per se, but insurance against the unknown. 
> 
> Now if you get to the lucky point in life where you have enough cash and PMs stashed away that you feel foolish for holding any more, then you may need to start thinking of more normal investment strategies, like owning stocks in mining companies or such, but I've never been fortunate to be this rich and I never will be.
> 
> When it comes time to sell/trade, again, private individuals, and no one else needs to ever know about it.
> ...


I would think the endgame for all folks that buy metals, eventually is to exchange them for goods/services, either by cashing in or hoping when they themselves can be exchanged one day, correct? 

I mean, what's the point in investing in something that, if grows, you never exchange at some point?

As for what I would use them for, I think I would only sell them if I needed to put a down payment on a house, buy a car or for insurance.

I doubt I'll invest in gold, since the initial investment is so large. Silver would allow me to take $100-$150 a month and buy a few coins here and there without missing the money much and years down the road have a nice size insurance/savings if needed.

Lastly, does anyone own copper? I would think the only downsize is storing them (size wise) versus what they're worth.

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## WilliamC

Nah, we just like them 'cause they're shiny 

But yes, when it comes time to sell/trade then do so to private individuals and don't talk about it, it's your business and your money.

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## zHorns

> Nah, we just like them 'cause they're shiny 
> 
> But yes, when it comes time to sell/trade then do so to private individuals and don't talk about it, it's your business and your money.


You talk a lot about keeping it on the down low, would you suggest I still insure them in case of loss (theft, fire, etc...)?

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## ILUVRP

an investment is a return on your money and a return of your money , everything else is a speculation.

if any of your bills are long term and high interest rates , i would pay them off/down.

i would never buy copper bars , i still think the thing to buy is junk silver ( pre 1965 dimes , quarters ) coins on ebay--- the price will be as close to

spot as you can get , no dealer mark up --everyone knows them--hard to fake as is happening now with many silver/gold pieces.

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## WilliamC

> You talk a lot about keeping it on the down low, would you suggest I still insure them in case of loss (theft, fire, etc...)?


To me it's all about keeping some of your wealth out of paper and out of the knowledge of those who would steal it, legally or illegally.

So no, just make sure to put it someplace fireproof and where no one will find it.

Again, once you have enough wealth that this becomes absurd (and that level varies from person to person) then more transparent, taxed investments start making sense, but I've never had that much so take my advice for what it's worth.

Not much

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## Black Flag

First, answer this question:

1. *Why are you buying gold? 
What are you planning to do with the gold in the future?*

Usually the answer will be:
*Well, when things go bad, I will use the gold to buy the things I need.*

So, the real answer to your question of "what should I buy" is...

_Buy the things you will need when "things go bad" now, because if you wait until the day "things go bad" the price of those goods will blow through the roof, and you will pay a whole lot more for them._

Buy those things now, at a discount compared to when "that day comes"

Now, if the answer to that first question is different... please post your answer.

PS;
Here is an article to answer your primary question
http://survivalblog.com/2012/03/buyi...-new-york.html

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## zHorns

As far as selling it to buy things. I don't think, unless we have a collapse, that I would sell it to buy basic needs (food, water).

I'm thinking long-term like retirement, down payment on a house, or general insurance. Honestly, I have trouble saving and believe the silver not only would be a nice opportunity to hopefully see growth over the years, but give me the insurance of having a hard asset.

The only real asset, I own is my car.

I rent an apartment and all my bill consist of general monthly expenses (water, electric, food, etc...)

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## eduardo89

I'd go half junk silver and half silver ounces.

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## WilliamC

> As far as selling it to buy things. I don't think, unless we have a collapse, that I would sell it to buy basic needs (food, water).
> 
> I'm thinking long-term like retirement, down payment on a house, or general insurance. Honestly, I have trouble saving and believe the silver not only would be a nice opportunity to hopefully see growth over the years, but give me the insurance of having a hard asset.
> 
> The only real asset, I own is my car.
> 
> I rent an apartment and all my bill consist of general monthly expenses (water, electric, food, etc...)


Your car isn't really an asset unless you are making more money with it than it costs you to operate it. 

Your small business is your best bet at getting wealthy, so long as it is turning a profit. If you can start, grow and sell businesses you can become wealthy.

Another way is to buy houses in need of some repair below cost, living in them while fixing them, then selling them at a profit. Since you are young and single this is more feasible than if you had a family. Do this three-four times successfully over a few years and you can buy your own house for cash. Then buy and manage rental properties, if you have the skills to do so.

Supposedly the above two ways are the most certain to get you rich should that be your goal. Even if you fail a few times so long as doing so doesn't leave you in debt it only takes once to win.

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## zHorns

> I'd go half junk silver and half silver ounces.


A couple questions about junk silver.

The way I understand it is that pre-1965 you can get nickles, dimes and quarters that have 90%+ silver in them. So, instead of selling for face value, they're selling for the value of the silver contents. But, it remains illegal to melt them for metal, correct?

Now, how would junk silver favor during hyper inflation, would folks want to trade goods/services for nickles, dimes and quarters for more than face value when it's illegal to melt and people are focused more on basic essentials?

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## WilliamC

> A couple questions about junk silver.
> 
> The way I understand it is that pre-1965 you can get nickles, dimes and quarters that have 90%+ silver in them. So, instead of selling for face value, they're selling for the value of the silver contents. But, it remains illegal to melt them for metal, correct?
> 
> Now, how would junk silver favor during hyper inflation, would folks want to trade goods/services for nickles, dimes and quarters for more than face value when it's illegal to melt and people are focused more on basic essentials?


Dimes, quarters, half-dollars and dollars were 90% silver prior to 1965, and half-dollars 40% silver to 1969, but not nickles unless you count the 1944 year when they were (I think) 35% silver due to nickle shortage of WWII.

Of those only the 90% coins are worthwhile to hold, and only because they are so well recognized and are typically the 'cheapest' silver you can buy with regards to paying a premium above spot price.

Also it's at least as easy to sell junk silver as it is American Eagles, and possibly easier than other forms of silver bullion, so there is that going for it too.

But once you get a bit of it it is bulky, so there is some merit to saving up for the occasional gold ounce as well.

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## eduardo89

> A couple questions about junk silver.
> 
> The way I understand it is that pre-1965 you can get nickles, dimes and quarters that have 90%+ silver in them. So, instead of selling for face value, they're selling for the value of the silver contents. But, it remains illegal to melt them for metal, correct?
> 
> Now, how would junk silver favor during hyper inflation, would folks want to trade goods/services for nickles, dimes and quarters for more than face value when it's illegal to melt and people are focused more on basic essentials?


The reason I say to get some junk silver is that in case of hyperinflation or SHTF scenario, you can use them in every day payments. You're not going to use an ounce of silver to buy bread, but a dime will work fine. They hold their value and are easily recognizable.

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## zHorns

> The reason I say to get some junk silver is that in case of hyperinflation or SHTF scenario, you can use them in every day payments. You're not going to use an ounce of silver to buy bread, but a dime will work fine. They hold their value and are easily recognizable.


Good point.

It's smart to thing about minor/micro transactions.

1/2 ounce of silver is selling on APMEX for $18 a piece.

What about grams of silver, if were talking about small exchanges, would that be better or worse than junk silver?

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## WilliamC

I'd go junk over fractional silver every time, too much markup on the latter.

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## eduardo89

> Good point.
> 
> It's smart to thing about minor/micro transactions.
> 
> 1/2 ounce of silver is selling on APMEX for $18 a piece.
> 
> What a grams of silver, if were talking about small exchanges, would that be better or worse than junk silver?


Thing is, no one knows what a gram of silver is. Everyone knows what a dime, quarter and half dollar are.

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## Black Flag

> As far as selling it to buy things. I don't think, unless we have a collapse, that I would sell it to buy basic needs (food, water).


Then do those things right now, with the money you would buy gold.

There are ample resources to help with food/water storage etc. 

If you wait until a collapse, well, you will be a day late and a gold coin short, trust me.




> I'm thinking long-term like retirement


Look up:
John Schaub - "Building wealth one house at a time."

Use this money to invest in rental property - knowing that people need a place to live, but will no longer be able to afford to buy a house.


If you have a good credit rating this is possible - and if you have a poor credit rating but cash, you can partner with someone who has a great credit rating and little cash.

Or, if you have little cash but a great credit rating, you can partner with someone who has cash.... you get the idea.

The major purpose of metal (I will discuss silver vs gold in a bit) is to provide *inter-generational wealth* - that is, give your grandkids a big head start.

I would suggest gold over silver. 

Rich buy gold, not silver.
Central banks buy gold, not silver.

Buy what the banks and the rich buy.

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## zHorns

Thanks for the advice so far.

Interesting bit about investing in rental properties.

The only problem I have with gold is that I don't really have the funds to start buying it. Of course, the thought of getting 1/10 or 1/20 ounce coins could be the best strategy for now, along with buying 1/2 or 1 ounce silver coins, then some junk silver here and there.

A few folks made a good point, that if hyper inflation happens that I won't be able to make micro transactions with 1 ounce silver coins or gold coins, so they suggest junk silver. The only problem is I worry a bit about the idea of exchanging money for lower valued money (face value). 

That something I'll have to overcome in my head.

Also, I do worry about the prospects of folks still exchanging junk silver post-collapse or hyper inflation. I think the idea of exchanging any US based currency after the paper and current coins are basically worthless could worry folks (or at least me) when they go to exchange tangible goods for it. But, I guess the fact that it's silver contents are still valued at something will make it worth trading in the event an economic downturn, because I believe we would need some kind of post-currency to make facilitating trade easier.

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## smh317

I have a question?  I was looking around at buying silver myself, but was wondering how easy it is to verify that what you have bought is legit.  Would one need to purchase a set of scales in order to verify the weight of silver or gold in home, or are there certain sellers of bullion out there that are highly respected and to be trusted

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## Seraphim

I say this to all new PM investors/savers.

If you cannot afford to buy gold in the 1/2 ounce weights or more - you have no business buying gold. That is, from a purely economic standpoint. The premiums on sub half ounce coins are massive.

Buy silver if you cannot afford 1000$ (close at the moment) or more gold purchases.




> Thanks for the advice so far.
> 
> Interesting bit about investing in rental properties.
> 
> The only problem I have with gold is that I don't really have the funds to start buying it. Of course, the thought of getting 1/10 or 1/20 ounce coins could be the best strategy for now, along with buying 1/2 or 1 ounce silver coins, then some junk silver here and there.
> 
> A few folks made a good point, that if hyper inflation happens that I won't be able to make micro transactions with 1 ounce silver coins or gold coins, so they suggest junk silver. The only problem is I worry a bit about the idea of exchanging money for lower valued money (face value). 
> 
> That something I'll have to overcome in my head.
> ...

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## heavenlyboy34

> I'd go half junk silver and half silver ounces.


+1  especially if you can't find a dealer who will sell rounds/eagles/etc at a reasonable price.  I'm a junk silver fanboy at the moment.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I say this to all new PM investors/savers.
> 
> If you cannot afford to buy gold in the 1/2 ounce weights or more - you have no business buying gold. That is, from a purely economic standpoint. The premiums on sub half ounce coins are massive.
> 
> Buy silver if you cannot afford 1000$ (close at the moment) or more gold purchases.


This^^  Going into debt to buy PMs is stupid.

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## slamhead

I had some odds and ends sterling silver around, a couple small plates and spoons. Went to my local dealer. $300. Loved it. I am going to be buy $1000 of silver ounces just to have a round. Most importantly living close to the ocean are my fishing rods and spear gun. I can make water out of sea water if need be and walk a couple hundred yards out to the hills and bag me a few dove with a shotgun. I feel sorry for those who rely on the system so much they will not be able to provide for themselves.

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## Black Flag

> I feel sorry for those who rely on the system so much they will not be able to provide for themselves.


You are kidding yourself if you believe you are not one of them.

Do the test:
Turn off your electrical power, water service, and do not drive your car (as it is out of gas for this scenario).

Dare you to live even 5 days like this.

Now, consider that your neighbors would be living like this ... especially if you happen to have something they don't .....

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## slamhead

> You are kidding yourself if you believe you are not one of them.
> 
> Do the test:
> Turn off your electrical power, water service, and do not drive your car (as it is out of gas for this scenario).
> 
> Dare you to live even 5 days like this.
> 
> Now, consider that your neighbors would be living like this ... especially if you happen to have something they don't .....


I have guns and a will to live. That is all I need.

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## Black Flag

> I have guns and a will to live. That is all I need.


Give your bravado a 5 day test - I'll wager a buck by day 3 you'll say to anyone listening ..."Well that was long enough, I could do that standing on my head for 30 days...", and the will all laugh at your joke.

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## slamhead

> Give your bravado a 5 day test - I'll wager a buck by day 3 you'll say to anyone listening ..."Well that was long enough, I could do that standing on my head for 30 days...", and the will all laugh at your joke.


Really dude. I spent three weeks in the Mojave desert by myself just so I could say I did. I will be just fine.

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## Black Flag

> Really dude. I spent three weeks in the Mojave desert by myself just so I could say I did. I will be just fine.


You compare a camping trip to a survival situation.... 

Ok, "dude".....if you say so

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## Len Larson

As others have said:
Stocking the pantry is always a smart thing to do.
You won't go wrong using metals to preserve your wealth for the future.
Investing in your own business is a good way to build your wealth.

The only thing I can add is that you might want to commit yourself to a contract that enforces financial discipline to build your savings. 
Some people have good results using dividend paying whole life insurance to do this. Google "Bank on Yourself" and "Infinite Banking". 
There's an awful lot of sales hype to cut through, but there are some real benefits too. 
Here's one of the best discussion threads I've found about it: http://forums.kiplinger.com/showthre...nking...&pp=15

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## zHorns

I've think I'll settle on buying half junk silver and half 1 ounce silver. I wouldn't mind investing in half ounce silver, but the premiums vs an one ounce will cost me more to buy the two half ounces.

Looking at the historical trends on silver, it was as low as $9 to $11 dollars an ounce even as recent as 2008.

If it appears to be more of a recovery or if the euro begins to go belly up wonder if we’ll see another drop to around 2008 levels as more people flee the Euro and begin to place trust in the US Dollar, which could give the appearance of a recovery? It could be even more so, because gold and silver have so many new speculators driven by the likes of Glenn Beck and such, since The Great Recession, a lot of whom may jump ship if it becomes apparent that silver or gold temporarily drops dynamically. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I believe if I slowly exchange my notes for silver, I'll be able to reduce my losses if it turns out that it does drop, but that drop would give me the opportunity to invest more and likely make up the difference, until we see another rise. I'm thinking of long-term, so I'm not too concerned about short-term losses. As far as gold goes, I think I may get a few ounces here and there once I have more expendable income.

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## WilliamC

Sounds like a good plan.

Just keep turning some of those paper FRNs into something more tangible instead of spending them on 'hookers and blow' and you're doing better than most.

Of course firearms and ammo are also good but that's a topic for another thread.

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## zHorns

> Sounds like a good plan.
> 
> Just keep turning some of those paper FRNs into something more tangible instead of spending them on 'hookers and blow' and you're doing better than most.
> 
> Of course firearms and ammo are also good but that's a topic for another thread.


My parents never owned firearms when I was growing up, so I haven't fired a weapon before.

I've been telling my partner, that we should go take a local training course.

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## eduardo89

> My parents never owned firearms when I was growing up, so I haven't fired a weapon before.
> 
> I've been telling my partner, that we should go take a local training course.


Deprived childhood!!!!!

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## zHorns

I'm going to try to find a good local coin dealer, before using APMEX. Hopefully, I can save a little on premiums and shipping.

I believe it would be a benefit to have a good relationship with someone, maybe offer some of my services (web design & hosting).

Hopefully, I can buy my first few coins next week.

I would like to still get some thoughts on current silver prices.




> If it appears to be more of a recovery or if the euro begins to go belly up wonder if we’ll see another drop to around 2008 levels as more people flee the Euro and begin to place trust in the US Dollar, which could give the appearance of a recovery? It could be even more so, because gold and silver have so many new speculators driven by the likes of Glenn Beck and such, since The Great Recession, a lot of whom may jump ship if it becomes apparent that silver or gold temporarily drops dynamically. Anyone have thoughts on this?


Do any of you think we'll see a drop in coming months?

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## Black Flag

> I'm going to try to find a good local coin dealer, before using APMEX. Hopefully, I can save a little on premiums and shipping.
> 
> I believe it would be a benefit to have a good relationship with someone, maybe offer some of my services (web design & hosting).


Very good idea - buy local, sell local.




> Do any of you think we'll see a drop in coming months?


A recession is coming. 
The Baltic Dry Goods Index collapsed - lowest level in 30 years - a sign that ships aren't needed because no one is buying goods.

In a recession all commodities take a hit - gold and silver are not immune.

When this happens it will be a buying time - because the fundamentals; large debt, massive Central Bank buying of that debt; thus inflation - has not changed.

The optimum strategy is to buy an oz every month or two like clockwork, then the price rise and fall doesn't matter.

As long as the fundamentals do not change, neither should your buying habit.

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## zHorns

> Very good idea - buy local, sell local.
> A recession is coming. 
> The Baltic Dry Goods Index collapsed - lowest level in 30 years - a sign that ships aren't needed because no one is buying goods.
> 
> In a recession all commodities take a hit - gold and silver are not immune.
> 
> When this happens it will be a buying time - because the fundamentals; large debt, massive Central Bank buying of that debt; thus inflation - has not changed.
> 
> The optimum strategy is to buy an oz every month or two like clockwork, then the price rise and fall doesn't matter.
> ...


Thanks, Black Flag.

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## rbianco3

> Im thinking about starting to invest in precious metals and need some advice.<br>
> <br>
> Basically, Im 21, run a small business, own a car outright, no debts and can easily pay my current load of bills with my income, but, rather than transferring extra income to my saving account every month, I tend to spend it on things that arent really necessary.<br>
> <br>
> Ultimately, I feel like Im not working towards something long-term.<br>
> <br>
> So, I thought it would be smarter to start placing some of that extra income into a long-term investment plan, which involves me buying 1oz silver ingots or 1 pound copper bars a few times a month and over time building a nice size stockpile without a large initial investment; I dont have the savings to go drop thousands right now on much of anything.<br>
> <br>
> I've never owned precious metals, so I need some advice. Any info would help.<br>
> ...


<br><br>You are thinking smart for a 21 year old, wish that I could have said the same thing about myself. &nbsp;First of all, now is a great time to start, just start buying small amounts over time so you dollar cost average. &nbsp;You wouldn't want to start off buying a bunch with your life savings because with any market there is downside risk, and you could lose some money in the short term.<br><br>If you have ten or twenty thousand in savings then start out buying maybe one or two thousand dollars worth of silver and gold per month, or if you don't yet have any savings, that is okay too because you are debt free, just figure out about how much you are spending on "extra" stuff per month that you really should be saving, lets say that number is $200. &nbsp;Then every week/month buy a set amount of gold and/or silver, this way if the price is down you will get more ounces, and if the price is up you won't run the risk of losing too much if the market pulls back. &nbsp;This concept is called dollar cost averaging. &nbsp;<br><br>You ask if you should wait to see if Silver drops, well, you could try and time the market, but if it were possible to do with 100% accuracy then everyone would be doing it. &nbsp;In reality, technical analysis does work pretty well so you could go over to stock charts dot com and take their online basic candlestick technical analysis course. &nbsp;It is how I first learned technical analysis. &nbsp;Just a few days ago I thought Silver and Gold were ready to break out as they both had pulled back, consolidated, and were about to cross resistance points on the chart. &nbsp;I figured the metals were gonna make another run, or they'd get pushed down, and the latter happened, it appears someone tried to put the damper on what looked like a technical breakout, and it worked kind of-- but the demand seems too strong and the market dumping didn't keep the price down for very long. &nbsp;This to me shows that there is exceptional demand at current prices so buying either silver or gold now would not be bad timing at all. &nbsp;If someone keeps pushing the metals down when they appear ready to break out, the charts may suffer enough damage to cause metals to pull back some, but as long as you are buying in smaller increments you will be happy to get some at a lower cost, if it goes up then you'll be happy too.<br><br>I'd say the chances are better than 50% that we see $2000 gold and $40 silver before we see $1500 gold and $30 Silver. &nbsp;In either case, in the next few years there isn't much that will stop both from rising, eventually there will probably be a period of very fast price increases possibly increases of 60% in a very short time, like the final phases of the gold breakout back in the 80's. &nbsp;I personally like to buy $1,000 in silver or gold every month or two, when the market seems soft. &nbsp;I am heavy in Silver because I think it is under priced compared to gold, but I always get a little bit of gold (and I mean a little... like a tenth ounce) which forces me to pay a premium. &nbsp;Buying in 1/10 or 1/20 carries a big premium you'll be paying way over $2000 an ounce. &nbsp;Silver on the other hand, I like to buy canadian maple leafs, the .9999 purity and try to get them as close to spot price as possible, usually around $3 or $4 over spot. &nbsp;They are widely accepted for their exceptional quality, and nothing gives you a better feeling once you start accumulating a nice pile of these coins. <br><br>Buy from a reputable online dealer, I use apmex &amp; kitco and am happy with both. &nbsp;You get a better price if you pay by check or money order and better prices for quantity.<br><br>If I were you, I would start today. &nbsp;Order yourself a few Canadian Maple Leaf Silver Ounces on pay-day, use the "pay yourself first" mentality. &nbsp;If you wait until all the bills are paid there will be nothing left for you-- the most important person. &nbsp;You'll have fun trying out different coins, &nbsp;I like the look of Australian Kookabura's but they usually carry a price premium. &nbsp;You can get some silver and gold on ebay but its usually over priced by about ten percent for some reason. &nbsp;Stick with high quality, very pure coins, they are easy to liquidate if needed.<br><br>Have fun, once you get started you won't want to stop.&nbsp;<br><br><br>

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## zHorns

> Have fun, once you get started you won't want to stop.


Thanks for the reply.

Lots of good information.

Is there really a difference between .999 and  .9999 silver or it is just a marketing ploy?




> Minting companies have used the extra 9 as a means to increase perceived value and show off refining technology which is somewhat of a marketing ploy really. Gold refined at 9999 was introduced by the Canadian Mint in the 1980's, in fact some coins produced in 1979 and 1980 at .999 are rumored to be have a higher purity than the current issues of .9999.

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## Bern

Congrats zHorn on your impeding loss of precious metals virginity.  Sounds like you got some good advice and have a "solid" plan.

IMO, the .999 vs. .9999 is largely irrelevant for purposes of investment and/or commerce.  It might make a difference for people who intend to melt down and use the metal industrially, but why pay a premium for a state mint issued coin if that's your goal?

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## zHorns

> Congrats zHorn on your impeding loss of precious metals virginity.  Sounds like you got some good advice and have a "solid" plan.
> 
> IMO, the .999 vs. .9999 is largely irrelevant for purposes of investment and/or commerce.  It might make a difference for people who intend to melt down and use the metal industrially, but why pay a premium for a state mint issued coin if that's your goal?


Thanks, I wouldn't mind owning some Silver Mooses, but was pretty set on Silver Eagles.

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## Pennsylvania

If you're concerned about hyperinflation, I'd forego the silver and buy gold, even grams.

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## Black Flag

> If you're concerned about hyperinflation, I'd forego the silver and buy gold, even grams.


Yep, but if you really are worried by high inflation, buy goods today and forgo the gold - in hyperinflation, you won't live long enough to spend the gold.

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## zHorns

> If you're concerned about hyperinflation, I'd forego the silver and buy gold, even grams.


I'm not so much concerned about it, but more so thinking about all possibilities.

Many folks made the point that gold and silver is not a good hyperinflation plan, since you can't make micro/minor transactions with an ounce of gold and silver. Junk silver may be better, since you can trade much smaller metal contents, but it stills worries me who in their right mind would trade supplies for silver/gold, I would only trade for other supplies.

Even during a collapse, I believe it would take months, if not years for another widely used currency to emerge for exchange.

It would be all about just having enough food to survive. Ultimately, storage (food, water, ammo) is king for hyperinflation.

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## Black Flag

> Many folks made the point that gold and silver is not a good hyperinflation plan, since you can't make micro/minor transactions with an ounce of gold and silver. 
> 
> but it stills worries me who in their right mind would trade supplies for silver/gold, I would only trade for other supplies.


 Exactly.
Those folks have not thought the problem out deep enough.

In hyperinflation *there will be absolutely no one to trade with for anything* - if you don't have it already, you ain't getting it for any (nearly any) price.

Food will run out in the cities in 3 days. 
The guy across the street has 10 dozen eggs.
_ Do you honestly believe he will sell those eggs for your "stupid" gold coin?_ - *you can't eat gold*

You may have to give him *all your gold coins* for a couple of eggs for the deal to go.

In the Wiemar, people were trading *handmade, incredibly expensive grand pianos to farmers for a basket of eggs* - a farmer could pay off his mortgage - a mortgage that sat on his farm for _150 years or more_ with *a single egg*.

Do ya think your silver dime is going to rate????

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## Black Flag

> Gold/silver


So, what is the purpose of this stuff then if hell breaks out?

*It is there to give you a head start when hell's economic water recedes.*

It is not there to get you through hell, it is there for you to have a small head start in rebuilding your life.

So, you need to have what you need to get through hell, then that gold will be useful.

Eventually, a new money will appear, and you can trade your gold to buy that money - you will be so far ahead of your friends, you will be seen to be "rich" - you will be able to restart the local economy _by your saved capital of gold_

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## MRoCkEd

> Does anyone have an advice?


Owning some silver is fine, but I highly discourage just throwing all of your hopes into precious metals.

Here is my advice to start (in order until you run out of money)
- Keep at least six months of expenses in savings as an emergency fund.
- Max out a Roth IRA for 2011 (you have until tax time) and 2012 at $5,000 for each year. I suggest a targetted retirement fund from Vanguard.
- If your employer matches 401k contributions, contribute up to the Max. Beyond if you still have more left over.

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## Bern

^ As I tell peeps all the time, never invest any funds that you think you might need in the next few years.  PMs for me are preservation of _excess_ wealth.

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