# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Marine Corp veteran Brandon Raub  arrested last night

## XTreat

From what I can tell Marine Corp veteran Brandon Raub was arrested last night on charges of "posting things on Facebook" 

Josh Tolley has picked up the story




Here is the footage from the scene. Looks creepy as $#@!.

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## sailingaway

people are tweeting about this.  Is he one of ours? Not that it is good whomever it is, but.... is he?

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## Anti Federalist

FFS, is this yet another person going to prison for exercising "free speech" on the government spy network know as FarceBook???

I can't watch videos where I am, thumbnail please.

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

From what I have been able to find out it appears that his major crime was posting info about 9/11 truth.

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## eleganz

Seems to be one of us if you look at his fb page they pulled up on the video he posted something from Ben swann

But this is scary, no formal charges pressed, no Miranda rights read and he is still being held? this might be being done under NdAa

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## Anti Federalist

> From what I have been able to find out it appears that his major crime was posting info about 9/11 truth.


Well, that would explain why the Freepers threw him overboard.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../2919810/posts

Lots of conflicting info right now, all circling back to posts, nothing concrete yet.

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## Indy Vidual

Is FedBook blocking me from seeing his posts, since I'm not logged in, or do you have to be his friend?
I suppose there is no way to tell w/o being logged in...

EDIT:
found this  https://www.facebook.com/raub.brandon?sk=wall

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## Merk

NDAA.

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## ganderif

It's really simple. If you want free speech, don't join the military.

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## sailingaway

> It's really simple. If you want free speech, don't join the military.


if he's a vet presumably he isn't in the military NOW.   A lot of those were drafted.

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## Merk

> It's really simple. If you want free speech, don't join the military.


He is not active duty.

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## Anti Federalist

> It's really simple. If you want free speech, don't join the military.


Not active duty.

Get yer facts straight before throwing people to the wolves for exercising their rights.

Sheesh...

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## TheGrinch

Congrats America, when you make the Russians look tame in suppressing free speech.

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## Indy Vidual

Does anyone have a link to his actual posts?

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## Anti Federalist

Unknown source, so I have no way to gauge credibility.


*Former Marine Arrested Last Night Over Facebook Posts That S.S. Claim Were “Terroristic”.*

http://jeenyuscorner.com/2012/08/17/...yuscorner-com/

By - Marshall D. Culpepper
THE JEENYUS CORNER

Decorated War Veteran (Iraq and Afghanistan) and former Marine, Brandon Raub, of Richmond Virginia was arrested last night by authorities.  Authorites claimed that Raub made “Terroristic” comments on his Facebook Page.  The unconstitutional arrest occurred last night at approximately 7:30 pm at the combat veteran’s home.

The following video was shot with a cell phone camera, by Raub’s brother,  Who began filming when he arrived at the scene of Brandon’s “Capture”.

On “The Josh Tolley Show”, a radio show, his mother Kathleen Thomas, stated he was questioned about his Facebook posts. Kathleen states that she was contacted by phone by FBI agent Sherry Grainger and was told that her son Brandon Raub was arrested for assault, resisting arrest… later agent Grainger said that the threats made by Raub was “terrorist in nature” (see videos)



The following posts were made by Cathleen Thomas on Facebook, Expressing her anguish and frustration, as any logical parent and concerned American should be:


Cathleen Thomas (mother of former Marine arrested for using his 1st amendment rights)

I ask that you pray for our country and my son Brandon Raub. He has been arrested by the FBI and Secret Service for his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to express his FREEDOM OF SPEECH on Facebook.

Remember this?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

He is a decorated US MARINE that served in 2 wars for our country.

*He is being held for psychiatric evaluation to see if he is “fit for society” they will not tell me where he is and they will not return my phone calls.*

I know what they are trying to do, and they will not win. They will try to SLAP PTSD on him, they will say he is unstable. THIS IS COMPLETE BULL$#@!!

Is this what it comes to? Is this MY AMERICA I grew up in? Where are those that are weary of the deliberate stripping and tearing down of our US CONSTITUTION! Were are those that will stand and rise and say “enough is enough” we want out country back. Where are those that adhere, embrace and stand up for the US CONSTITUTION.

I will not be silent, I will not PASSIVELY stand back and do nothing. I will hold the Constitution high and remind our government of our rights. I will lift it up to my Father in heaven and cry GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

I AM PROUD OF MY SON. He his one of the most logical, clear-minded, stable, LOVER OF GOD and COUNTRY men that I know.

HE is a Patriot whose time has come. Wake up America! Wake UP

RESISTANCE TO TYRANTS IS OBEDIENCE TO GOD~THOMAS JEFFERSON


*
She later informed supporters of this update:*

Latest update.

I was at the Chesterfield police dept inquiring on where my son was. I do have a video of the FBI and Chesterfield police dept taking my son away.

They told me last night, that yes, he is here and being “evaluated”. There was nothing I could do they said, but “await his phone call”.

No one has called, so I began to call. Called the chesterfield police jail and they told me that he was not there and they have NO RECORD of him being processed there or booked for any crime.

They gave me the number to the FBI which I already had because Agent Sherry Granger 804-241-4770 Called me upon his “arrest” and told me my son was being “evaluated” as a “potential terrorist” for his comments on face book AND that he was arrested by the Chesterfield Police Department.

So I called her back this morning since no one seems to know where my son is and she did not speak to me but a representative of the FBI told me he was taken to a Psychiatric Facility called Popluar Springs in Petersburg Va. So I called Popluar Springs and they have no record of his admittance.

How would you like this to happen to your child just because he exercised his constitutional right of FREE SPEECH?

I will be following all this the best I can, and will post updates on the frightening situation.  People, let’s be clear, our country is in danger.  The danger is not on some far off land, it’s right here in AmeriKa.

Please keep Brandon and his family in your prayers.

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## ninepointfive

I guess I can see why they considered him a threat. Wonder how he's going to start a Revolution while in custody. 

chilling

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## Anti Federalist

From the above, it sounds like the poor bastard might have gotten stuffed into one of Creedy's black bags.

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## Anti Federalist

> I guess I can see why they considered him a threat. Wonder how he's going to start a Revolution while in custody. 
> 
> chilling


I reckon they asked the same thing about Paul Revere and Sam Adams.

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## Indy Vidual

Do they have pizza and large screen TV's (for the NFL) at FEMA camp?  


ps. Does anyone have a link to his actual posts?

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## ninepointfive

> I reckon they asked the same thing about Paul Revere and Sam Adams.


I reckon'

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## Ronulus

> Does anyone have a link to his actual posts?


This. What was actually posted that was 'terroristic".

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## NY-Dano

> ps. Does anyone have a link to his actual posts?


http://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall

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## sailingaway

> Brandon's Notes 
> Notes About Brandon 
> Browse Notes
> Friends' Notes 
> Pages' Notes 
> My Notes 
> My Drafts 
> Notes About Me 
> 
> ...


that's all I see on his facebook, but maybe they took something off.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/brando.../2587924188052

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## Anti Federalist

NVM - SA did it already.

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## NY-Dano

> Cut and paste please, for those of us who don't FraudBook.


He mentions "starting a revolution" a lot. I think this post might be construed as a threat:



> This is the part where I tell the Federal Government to go $#@! itself. This is the part where I tell Generals, training our young men to fight Americans, I am coming for you. The Veterans will be with me

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## Anti Federalist

> that's all I see on his facebook, but maybe they took something off.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/notes/brando.../2587924188052


Any one of us could have written that.

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## ninepointfive

guess we're all reading his page right now - thanks for the notes though, I forgot about those

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## ClydeCoulter

http://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall

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## JK/SEA

yeah, probably best not to telegraph your true feelings. 

I told a male co-worker years ago while we were in a heated argument to BLOW ME...well, he went to HR and complained i was sexually harrassing him and the company wanted to fire me. Luckily i had good friends in the Union save my hide. In hindsight i shoulda told him to $#@! OFF. I digress.

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## JK/SEA

Well, if he plays his cards right with the FEDS, he could use this time as a teachable moment for those interrogating him.

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## XTreat

> Well, if he plays his cards right with the FEDS, he could use this time as a teachable moment for those interrogating him.


I actually thought the same thing, if I could keep my wits enough to explain why and how everything they were doing was in direct offense to the oaths they swear.

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## JK/SEA

> I actually thought the same thing, if I could keep my wits enough to explain why and how everything they were doing was in direct offense to the oaths they swear.


Yeah, and now i'm wondering if what he put on facebook was a deliberate action to rattle cages and make a serious point, but if he folds under the waterboarding then it would have been for naught. Here's hoping our brave warrior comes out of this ok.

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## anonymous billionaire

Removed Previous post for privacy reasons.

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## RickyJ

> From what I have been able to find out it appears that his major crime was posting info about 9/11 truth.


All the more reason to post it then. They wouldn't have kidnapped him if they thought his posts would be seen as some conspiracy nut, they knew people would be influenced by what he posted and start to find out the truth about 9/11. If you want freedom, the truth about 9/11 must be spread far and wide. Once enough people know their own government lied to them and had a hand in 9/11 and that no Muslims were even involved in 9/11, they will be ready to revolt.

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## Rebelrouser

So far it seems as though he was committed by the feds for psychiatric evaluation only.  Localities and states do have procedures to have folks forcefully (I don't know if that's an apt word to use, maybe in this case.) commit people who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others for a small period, usually a week or two, so they can undergo a psychiatric evaluation and in most cases, get the help they need.  Sometimes that power is abused by people in power, but its a rare occurrence.  The question is who had him committed, why and did they get a warrant.  Three very important things.

This is a very scary precedent if the Government is deciding it can have folks committed for no other reason than because they don't get warm and fuzzy feeling from their facebook posts.  This is something that needs to be followed closely as details come out.

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## sailingaway

> Here's what I would imagine these are the troubling posts:
> 
> [deleted to conform to self edit above]
> 
> Now, I'm curious to what actually un-folded when they showed up at his house.


I believe he was taken, not just 'visited'.  And I'm troubled that venting on the internet would be seen as sufficient justification, I would sure hope they had a lot more than that to go on.

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## anonymous billionaire

It is troubling and scary, which is why I'm going to remove my previous post. Very sorry for the inconvience to anyone, but you can look up his post on his
 FB.

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## RickyJ

> It is troubling and scary, which is why I'm going to remove my previous post. Very sorry for the inconvience to anyone, but you can look up his post on his
>  FB.


I understand. you don't want to get a knock on the door, but people need to know the truth or there will no stopping them.

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## brushfire

This should be another indicator to current service men and women.  Not only are you expendable, but should you live to be discharged, you will be treated as a potential threat by "them".

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## anonymous billionaire

> I believe he was taken, not just 'visited'.  And I'm troubled that venting on the internet would be seen as sufficient justification, I would sure hope they had a lot more than that to go on.


Thanks for removing the quote, but it appears he has two FB profiles: 

https://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall ( this is the one with the most remarks that could be deemed as troubling.)

Here's the other: https://www.facebook.com/raub.brandon

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## LibertyEagle

If you look at his facebook page, he made some threats there.  I would imagine that is why he was picked up.

http://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall

Once you read a few pages on his Facebook, I'm wondering what took them so long to visit him.  A person who would put those kind of threats out in the public domain is either ignorant, mentally ill, or a government employee.

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## Tod

He wrote:




> There are three keys to rediscovering liberty  in this country:  Understanding liberty (sound money, personal freedoms,  and property rights), understanding and the destroying the federal  reserve, and rediscovering the free market through Austrian Economics.


as a caption to this pic:



In looking over his wall, it looks like it could be any one of us, with a few vague statements like:




> The Revolution is here.  And I will lead it.





> The Revolution will come for me.  Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to lead it.





> Sharpen up my axe; I'm here to sever heads.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> If you look at his facebook page, he made some threats there.  I would imagine that is why he was picked up.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall
> 
> Once you read a few pages on his Facebook, I'm wondering what took them so long to visit him.  A person who would put those kind of threats out in the public domain is either ignorant, mentally ill, or a government employee.

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## LibertyEagle

> 


How many pages of his Facebook have you read?  I suggest you do that and shove your .

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## RonRules

> Once you read a few pages on his Facebook, I'm wondering what took them so long to visit him.


What threats?

Like this?:
Raub BrandonOath Keepers
‎"Be without Fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth. Always. Even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong. That is your oath."

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## ronpaulfollower999

> How many pages of his Facebook have you read?  I suggest you do that and shove your .


I read back to last November. I don't see any specific threats other than staring a revolution (which has been our "slogan" for the last 5 years), giving a **** you to the NWO, and a bunch of post on 9/11. Sorry, I don't see anything more threatening than what's said here on a daily basis.

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## LibertyEagle

> What threats?
> 
> Like this?:
> Raub BrandonOath Keepers
> ‎"Be without Fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth. Always. Even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong. That is your oath."


Nope.  And I'm not copying and pasting it, here.  He made it clear that he was ready to start the revolution, something about severing heads and that he is coming for them.  While holding a rifle in his avatar.  

That may sound cool to a couple of you, but maybe now you see why such posts are not allowed on this forum.  Posting things like that don't do anything but earn you a visit from Homeland Security and neutralize anything good that you might have done.

It was stupid of him.

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## zachrbroussard

The guy sounded insane. If he had shot up some federal building tomorrow, everyone would be wondering "jeez, they knew this guy was crazy and didn't do anything about it?"

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## liveandletlive

this guy was not well, was not of sound mind. anyone who thinks this guy had a firm grip on his mental faculties is outta their mind. its no surprise they had him mentally evaluated - though i hope he isnt forced to be drugged up. Just as you cant shout fire in a crowded theater you simply cant be dumb enough to make threats. at the same time he needs help to heal from what i think is probably PTSD, not locked up in a cell

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## sailingaway

> The guy sounded insane. If he had shot up some federal building tomorrow, everyone would be wondering "jeez, they knew this guy was crazy and didn't do anything about it?"


Yeah, all the same I wonder how many 12 year olds don't self importantly post stuff at least as bad.  I sure hope they had more to go on than stuff he put on a facebook page.

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## Carlybee

> If you look at his facebook page, he made some threats there.  I would imagine that is why he was picked up.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall
> 
> Once you read a few pages on his Facebook, I'm wondering what took them so long to visit him.  A person who would put those kind of threats out in the public domain is either ignorant, mentally ill, or a government employee.


Who was he making threats to?  They seemed provocative but mostly generalizations. I probably wouldn't say things like that on FB and he did seem intent on getting someone's attention but ultimately he was a citizen exercising free speech....oh wait...we don't have that anymore thanks to NDAA.

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## Anti Federalist

> Nope.  And I'm not copying and pasting it, here.  He made it clear that he was ready to start the revolution, something about severing heads and that he is coming for them.  While holding a rifle in his avatar.  
> 
> That may sound cool to a couple of you, but maybe now you see why such posts are not allowed on this forum.  Posting things like that don't do anything but earn you a visit from Homeland Security and neutralize anything good that you might have done.
> 
> It was stupid of him.


The metric used to be making a specific and act-able threat against a specifically named public "official".

Then it progressed to making generalized threats.

Now, it seems, that making vague, generalized and non threatening "threats" is enough to get you locked up.

In a few years, we'll be getting hauled off for muttering under our breath in our own home.

Yay, Amerika.

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## zachrbroussard

> Yeah, all the same I wonder how many 12 year olds don't self importantly post stuff at least as bad.  I sure hope they had more to go on than stuff he put on a facebook page.


I can agree with that.

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## Anti Federalist

> The guy sounded insane. If he had shot up some federal building tomorrow, everyone would be wondering "jeez, they knew this guy was crazy and didn't do anything about it?"


So "sounding insane" is now the metric we allow government to use, in order to throw people into the rape cage?

If that's the case, I'll be looking foward to meeting well over half of you folks at Camp Fed.

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## zachrbroussard

//

I agree that his comments, at least the ones I saw, as crazy as they sound, are not grounds for being arrested.

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## Tod

> Who was he making threats to?  *They seemed provocative* but mostly *generalizations*. I probably wouldn't say things like that on FB and he did seem intent on getting someone's attention but ultimately he was a citizen exercising free speech....oh wait...we don't have that anymore thanks to NDAA.


^this.  +rep.

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## rambone

> Nope.  And I'm not copying and pasting it, here.


Can someone post the date/time of this post so I can find it?   As well as which profile it came from?

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## bunklocoempire

Another liberty-rubber meets the road-moment.  

Assuming government protects anything _when it has already bailed on it's primary purpose_... yeah, _THAT'S_ rich.

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## brushfire

Reminds me of suspected terrorist, Joe Lipari

http://www.joelipari.com/?p=1607



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lipari




> *Terrorism* After being frustrated with bad customer service at The Apple Store, in September 2009, Joe jokingly paraphrased a quote from the book/movie Fight Club, which referred to use of firearms, on his Facebook page. In under 2 hours, NYPD SWAT arrived at his door and, after searching his apartment, they brought Joe to the station to be questioned by Homeland Security.[14]
>  Joe spent a year in court clearing his name of all charges, even turning down multiple plea bargains. Eventually The City of New York dropped all charges including making Terrorist Threats and Disorderly Conduct. Since then Joe has received offers from lawyers pushing him to sue New York City for Wrongful Imprisonment, but he has no plans to sue. When Emily Epstein from Metro New York  pressed him as to why: he replied "I'd rather be rich on my own accord,  not by suing the people who are just trying to keep us safe"[15]
>  His story was first covered by _This American Life_ [14] in September 2010. It was also a cover story for _Metro New York_[15] and featured in Britain's daily newspaper The Guardian.[1]

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## TruckinMike

There are 10,000+ posts a day equivalent to his post --- Obviously THEY ARE USING HIM AS AN EXAMPLE to instill FEAR in the population. And its working.

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## Anti Federalist

> There are 10,000+ posts a day equivalent to his post --- Obviously THEY ARE USING HIM AS AN EXAMPLE to instill FEAR in the population. *And its working*.


Like a charm.

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## bunklocoempire

> Reminds me of suspected terrorist, Joe Lipari
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				"I'd rather be rich on my own accord, not by suing the people who are just trying to keep us safe"


*double take*

*_another_ double take*

*face palm*  

Maybe _two_ years in court clearing his name would've learned him.

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## kathy88

> There are 10,000+ posts a day equivalent to his post --- Obviously THEY ARE USING HIM AS AN EXAMPLE to instill FEAR in the population. And its working.


This. Nice to see you Mike. Where ya been?

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## BSU kid

This is why I don't have a Facebook. Plain and Simple.

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## brushfire

> *double take*
> 
> *_another_ double take*
> 
> *face palm*  
> 
> Maybe _two_ years in court clearing his name would've learned him.


Yea, nothing short of amazing.

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## ChristianAnarchist

I'm an old f**k because I remember back when I was a boy, you could freely tell someone you were "going to kill them" and it was mostly just laughed off and usually it meant something like you would get into a fight with him.  Even if you really WANTED to kill him, unless you made some sort of plan or effort to ACTUALLY kill him, it was just talk.  We even had a saying as kids - "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me..."

Damn how far we've come in 50 years...

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## puppetmaster

Think the stuff is going to happen much much more often..........they are preparing

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## shane77m

http://libertycrier.com/u-s-constitu...acebook-posts/




> NOTE:  The facts of this story are developing.  The claims made in this post have not yet been verified.
> 
> Former Marine Brandon J Raubs mother claims he was taken by FBI and Secret Service on 8/16/12 for posting patriotic Facebook posts on his Facebook page. She also claims that he is now being held in mental hospital.


Some of his posts. If this is all it takes to get picked up then there are a lot of people that will be on the list. Surely there is more to this story than just this being about some posts on Farcebook.




> America has lost itself. We have lost who we truly are. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave. This is the land of Thomas Jefferson. This is the land of Benjamin Franklin. This is the land of Fredrick Douglas. This is the land of Smedley Butler. This is the land John F. Kennedy. This is the land of Martin Luther King. This is the land where the cowboy wins. This is the land where you can start from the bottom and get to the top. This is the land where regardless of you race and ethnicity you can suceed and build a better life for you and your family. This is the land where every race coexists peacefully. This is the land where justice wins. This is the land where liberty dwells. This is the land where freedom reigns. This is the land where we help the poor, and people help eachother. This is land where people beat racism.
> 
>     The federal reserve is wrong. They have designed a system based off of gread and fear. They designed a system to crush the middle class between taxes and inflation. This is wrong, and it is unjust. It is wrong.
> 
>     We have allowed ourselves to be devieced and seduced by the powers of the printing press. It is not a good system. It discourages saving: the foundation for all stable economic activity. The federal reserve is artificially manipulating interests rates and creating phony economic data. This thing has decieved our entire nation.
> 
>     They created it 1913. They also created the income tax in 1913. They encouraged the growth of debt so they can tax you on it. There is interest on the debt. Your government is in bed with these people. They want to enslave you to the government so that they can control every aspect of your lives. It is an empire based on lies. They operate of greed and fear.
> 
>     There is a better way. Its called freedom. Freedom is called a lot of things. But there is a true meaning. It means very simply that you have the right to do whatever you want as long as you are not infringing on the feedoms of other people.
> ...

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## LibertyEagle

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ted-last-night

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## shane77m

> So "sounding insane" is now the metric we allow government to use, in order to throw people into the rape cage?
> 
> If that's the case, I'll be looking foward to meeting well over half of you folks at Camp Fed.


I was thinking the same thing.

Surely there is more to this story than what is being reported.

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## shane77m

> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ted-last-night


Thanks. I just found that thread a few minutes ago.

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## pcosmar

No Idea,,does seem odd.
http://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall

seemed to be on the edge,, expecting a Civil War/Revolution..
Wonder if someone was souping him up,, 
I can only see his wall posts.

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## Austrian Econ Disciple

The Gestapo in all it's oppressive glory, right in front of your face, and all half of the people can mutter is some 'he deserved it', or 'he brought it upon himself', crapola. Enjoy your serfdom, you seem to not see what's staring you in the face.

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## Indy Vidual

> that's all I see on his facebook, but maybe they took something off.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/notes/brando.../2587924188052


_You must log in to see this page._
I don't log in there very often, thanks.

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## dillo

can the family file a writ of habeus corpus?  Im not a lawyer but just curious.

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## XTreat

what if they were monitoring his chat?

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## rockandrollsouls

What he said was incredibly creepy and unsettling, and it's an uncertain area for many people. But it was a violation of his right to free speech. Well, you know how the government likes taking over grey areas for their own agenda. They are probably doing this to see the amount of power they can grab again.

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## dillo

> What he said was incredibly creepy and unsettling, and it's an uncertain area for many people. But it was a violation of his right to free speech. Well, you know how the government likes taking over grey areas for their own agenda. They are probably doing this to see the amount of power they can grab again.


what part?

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## Natural Citizen

I kind of just stumbled across this. http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=21770

Apparently the guy was some sort of contributor to the particular web site. Who knows...

They list 5 of his articles. I didn't read them so I can't summarize.

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## Working Poor

> It was stupid of him.


Yep especially if he valued his "freedom"

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## Nickels

Looks like these people obviously know what they are doing, and aren't afraid to be held accountable. Most of you guys are focused on why this man was detained without charge, what I find interesting, and very thankful for, is that they didn't arrest the surrounding witnesses, and allow themselves to be filmed (if they're not going to justify their actions, why spare innocent witnesses and let them talk about it). My speculation is, the story isn't as simple as "he posted on facebook, they came for him for that".

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## Expatriate

Well he must have posted something really crazy, since people in groups like the New Black Panther Party like to make direct threats to kill people because of the color of their skin and they don't get hauled off.

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## Verrater

> Well he must have posted something really crazy, since people in groups like the New Black Panther Party like to make direct threats to kill people because of the color of their skin and they don't get hauled off.


because we all know the government only acts with just cause...

edit:

https://twitter.com/Rep_DanGordon/st...15112562188288

screenshots of facebook posts:
http://libertycrier.com/u-s-constitu...acebook-posts/

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## shane77m

> https://twitter.com/Rep_DanGordon/st...15112562188288


Shared that. I wonder if they will be coming for Dan Gordon next?

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## SilenceDewgooder

Military Oath:

""I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So what would you follow if the orders you swear to obey are unlawful but are enforced?

----------


## Dr.3D

> Military Oath:
> 
> ""I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
> 
> *So what would you follow if the orders you swear to obey are unlawful but are enforced?*


You are not expected to obey UNLAWFUL orders.



> These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.
> http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm

----------


## SilenceDewgooder

> You are not expected to obey UNLAWFUL orders.


Vet myself and I am aware of not following unlawful orders.  But if you also challenge the lawfulness of the orders to more people who you are sworn to obey.  So what do you do if you realize the orders you have already executed were unlawful?  A 2nd tier of that is the unlawfulness of the laws that have been passed.

----------


## SilenceDewgooder

Other news from this week -  I think it was 60 minutes (could be wrong) that covered the suicides of military members in which they were actively seeking help but told they would have to wait for an extended period of time or quickly given prescription pills and sent on their way. 

Then 2 days ago and covered by several media outlets that the Army was averaging a suicide per day -- keep in mind that is just the Army. Now throw in the thread post and look how quickly this vet was taken away for "psychiatric evaluation" after a post on FB.

----------


## TheGrinch

> Other news from this week -  I think it was 60 minutes (could be wrong) that covered the suicides of military members in which they were actively seeking help but told they would have to wait for an extended period of time or quickly given prescription pills and sent on their way. 
> 
> Then 2 days ago and covered by several media outlets that the Army was averaging a suicide per day -- keep in mind that is just the Army. Now throw in the thread post and look how quickly this vet was taken away for "psychiatric evaluation" after a post on FB.


So true and sad, and it just goes to show who they're really trying to protect... Themselves...

But people have to realize that, even though I hate it that they've pretty much quashed the people's ability to even non-violently overthrow a corrupt government like our founding fathers said we should, making threats of violence is not considered protected speech and yes, will likely get you a visit from the FBI.

However, for them to arrest him and haul him off for "psych evaluations", I'd like to hope that they had much more to go on, but regardless, that is the part of this story that is much more disturbing than are the vague threatening remarks he was making. (Of course this is all just based on what we know now though, and that's very little).

----------


## Dr.3D

> Vet myself and I am aware of not following unlawful orders.  But if you also challenge the lawfulness of the orders to more people who you are sworn to obey.  So what do you do if you realize the orders you have already executed were unlawful?  A 2nd tier of that is the unlawfulness of the laws that have been passed.


That was my problem when I was in the service.  If I challenged an order, it was quite often I was told to do as I was told.  If you dare challenge an order and then later they decide your challenge was disobeying a direct and lawful order, you would find yourself in a serious situation.    

I seriously doubt you have much choice as to challenging what you believe to be an unlawful order and not finding yourself in serious trouble afterward.  The only thing left for you to do is to be a sacrificial lamb for the cause of decency.   Depending on how serious the unlawful order is, I guess it's a matter of deciding to give up your life for what you believe.

----------


## TheTexan

> Military Oath:
> 
> ""I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
> 
> So what would you follow if the orders you swear to obey are unlawful but are enforced?


Reminds me of this quote from Jaime Lannister




> So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Obey the king, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. What if your father despises the king? What if the king massacres the innocent? It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or another.

----------


## zachrbroussard

He had a website, brandonjraub.com, that has been "suspended." Maybe he was posting more threatening things there?

Anyone heard any updates?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> He had a website, brandonjraub.com, that has been "suspended." Maybe he was posting more threatening things there?
> 
> Anyone heard any updates?


Nope.

Poor bastard might have become an unperson.

----------


## Carlybee

There's updated info here

http://www.abovetopsecretdotcom/forum/thread872537/pg1

----------


## Dr.3D

> There's updated info here
> 
> http://www.abovetopsecretdotcom/forum/thread872537/pg1


My browser came back with this...



> Server not found


Edit: try this one....
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread872537/pg1

----------


## Carlybee

> My browser came back with this...
> 
> Edit: try this one....
> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread872537/pg1


Yeah I posted a broken link..didnt know if we could direct link to sites like that on here.

----------


## tommy949

Why did he post his address on facebook?

----------


## Dr.3D

> Yeah I posted a broken link..didnt know if we could direct link to sites like that on here.


I dunno if we can either... but I suspect this link wouldn't be a problem.
I didn't notice the dot in it till a bit later.

----------


## Hyperion

Very interesting. It seems like an optimal situation for the government to demonstrate the virtues of the NDAA in the wake of all the recent shootings.

----------


## affa

> The metric used to be making a specific and act-able threat against a specifically named public "official".
> 
> Then it progressed to making generalized threats.
> 
> Now, it seems, that making vague, generalized and non threatening "threats" is enough to get you locked up.
> 
> In a few years, we'll be getting hauled off for muttering under our breath in our own home.
> 
> Yay, Amerika.


Exactly.

----------


## affa

> I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> Surely there is more to this story than what is being reported.


why?  
and by 'why', i mean this:
Throughout history, when they came with black bags for our neighbors... how many people just assumed that "there is more to this story than what is being reported".

----------


## TheTexan

> why?  
> and by 'why', i mean this:
> Throughout history, when they came with black bags for our neighbors... how many people just assumed that "there is more to this story than what is being reported".


Precisely correct.

----------


## affa

i get the feeling that too many people here are willing to accept that they only have freedom of speech as long as said 'freedom' excludes:   anything that sounds 'stupid', 'insane', 'dangerous', 'unstable', 'revolutionary', or otherwise non-mainstream.   As defined by our overlords, of course.

So sad to see so many people ready and willing to throw others under the bus for being 'stupid'.   Of course, no matter what someone gets blackbagged for, someone else will think them 'stupid' for doing whatever got them bagged in the first place.  Because the only 'smart' thing to do is to be a good serf, right?

----------


## phill4paul

So does anyone know if his mother has been able to locate him? To hide his location from a loved one or relative is the height of authoritarianism. WTF?
  "We've taken your son. No, we have no knowledge of his whereabouts. He's being evaluated _somewhere_. Have a nice day."

----------


## TheTexan

Is this the first of our movement to be taken hostage under NDAA?  Or were there some before him?

----------


## BSU kid

Notice how the mainstream...heck even the alternative media have ignored this. Someone needs to infiltrate a Obama rally and ask what happened to him!

----------


## Dr.3D

> Is this the first of our movement to be taken hostage under NDAA?  Or were there some before him?


That's the thing, they can disappear us one at a time and no one would even notice.  
Heck, on these forums, if somebody doesn't post for a long time, people think he was either banned or went on vacation.

----------


## shane77m

> why?  
> and by 'why', i mean this:
> Throughout history, when they came with black bags for our neighbors... how many people just assumed that "there is more to this story than what is being reported".


I guess there is still a little part of me that hopes the gubment wouldn't go in a take someone out of their house for a series Farcebook posts. If there is not another reason than for the post's then we are in some deep doodoo. Especially for some posts that don't sound any worse than what I have read on here and a myriad of other blogs, forums, and such.

If the reason they bagged him was for the posts then I expect the media to spin this to make him look like a home grown terrorist.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> i get the feeling that too many people here are willing to accept that they only have freedom of speech as long as said 'freedom' excludes:   anything that sounds 'stupid', 'insane', 'dangerous', 'unstable', 'revolutionary', or otherwise non-mainstream.   As defined by our overlords, of course.
> 
> So sad to see so many people ready and willing to throw others under the bus for being 'stupid'.   Of course, no matter what someone gets blackbagged for, someone else will think them 'stupid' for doing whatever got them bagged in the first place.  Because the only 'smart' thing to do is to be a good serf, right?


It is not a matter of agreeing with what has been done to him.  Rather, it is being cognizant of what is going on in our country all around us.  I question if some momentary internet bravado was worth him potentially being completely neutralized.  It doesn't seem wise to me.

----------


## TheTexan

> It is not a matter of agreeing with what has been done to him.  Rather, it is being cognizant of what is going on in our country all around us.  I question if some momentary internet bravado was worth him potentially being completely neutralized.  It doesn't seem wise to me.


I keep telling you this but I don't think you get it yet.  We're *all* on their lists.  He was simply at the top of the list.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I keep telling you this but I don't think you get it yet.  We're *all* on their lists.  He was simply at the top of the list.


I get it.  It is you who apparently do not.

----------


## TheTexan

> I get it.  It is you who apparently do not.


He understood the consequences.  He understood that if he said what he believed needed to be said, that men with guns could appear at his doorstep, and he was right.  That does not make him stupid.  It simply makes him one of the first.  There will be plenty more where that came from.

It is because of people like Brandon Raub, and Roger Pion, who are willing to sacrifice their personal liberties, their lives, for *us*, that I have any hope for the future of this country.

On the flip side of the coin, those who stay quiet, those who do not resolve to action, out of nothing more than fear of retaliation from their masters, are cowards and are not helping us in any way.  You can avoid the men with guns by complying, by staying quiet, by sitting down and shutting up.  But that does not help us.  That helps *them*.  The noose is tightening around our necks with each passing day.  

Eventually, you along with everyone else will have to make a choice.  Do you take a stand and say this is where it stops?  Or do you sit down and wait for others to take a stand on your behalf?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> He understood the consequences.  He understood that if he said what he believed needed to be said, that men with guns could appear at his doorstep, and he was right.  That does not make him stupid.  It simply makes him one of the first.  There will be plenty more where that came from.
> 
> It is because of people like Brandon Raub, and Roger Pion, who are willing to sacrifice their personal liberties, their lives, for *us*, that I have any hope for the future of this country.
> 
> On the flip side of the coin, those who stay quiet, those who do not resolve to action, out of nothing more than fear of retaliation from their masters, are cowards and are not helping us in any way.  You can avoid the men with guns by complying, by staying quiet, by sitting down and shutting up.  But that does not help us.  That helps *them*.  The noose is tightening around our necks with each passing day.  
> 
> Eventually, you along with everyone else will have to make a choice.  Do you take a stand and say this is where it stops?  Or do you sit down and wait for others to take a stand on your behalf?


Some blather about action.

Others take it.

----------


## TheTexan

> Some blather about action.
> 
> Others take it.


Impressive display of blatant hypocrisy.  I am truly impressed!  /golfclap

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Impressive display of blatant hypocrisy.  I am truly impressed!  /golfclap


You keep trying to make this personal.  If you are trying to take a pot shot at me, you're going to have to do much better than that.

The point I was trying to make is that if you truly believe this is all going to end up in some kind of civil war, do you think it is wise to have yourself taken out of the effort, for something so meaningless as some internet bravado?   I wouldn't think that was the best choice of action, but whatever.

----------


## TheTexan

> Is that the best you've got?
> 
> No more chest-thumping, or anything?   Oh come on.  You know you want to.


No, I'm still flabbergasted by your impressive hypocrisy.  Kinda left me speechless.  Not sure what else to say at this point lol

----------


## TheTexan

> for something so meaningless


Speaking truth is never meaningless, and as far as I can tell, that's all that he did

----------


## LibertyEagle

> No, I'm still flabbergasted by your impressive hypocrisy.  Kinda left me speechless.  Not sure what else to say at this point lol


Again, you keep trying to make this personal.  The only reason for that is that you have no argument.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Speaking truth is never meaningless, and as far as I can tell, that's all that he did


He made comments about severing heads and made it sound like he was ready to commence immediately.   Is that the truth you are talking about?  Or, did you even take the time to read his Facebook page?

We know the unconstitutional laws that have been passed.  We know they are tightening the noose.  So, unless we want to be picked up, and be taken out of action, it seems to me that people posting threats should at least be cognizant that Homeland Security may be on their doorstep.

Do I like it?  No.  But, that is a different thing than being aware of what is going on in our country.

Go ahead and fling another insult, bxm, if that makes you feel like a big man.

----------


## TheTexan

> Again, you keep trying to make this personal.  The only reason for that is that you have no argument.


Again?  LOL.  I wrote that before you even wrote your "trying to make this personal" edit.

And it's not personal.  I just call it as I see it.  You're the queen of "not taking action."  I don't think I need to explain that for anybody here.  Generally anything that makes waves, you're against it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Some blather about action.
> 
> Others take it.


I see your point, but rather than think of it as blather, think of it as sounding the alarm.

Some will sound the alarm and some will suit up to fight the fire.

Sometimes, the only way to effectively sound the alarm, is to get black bagged for exercising what should be your unassailable rights.

Hell, look at how many people here, amongst our own, are waffling on how serious this is, that there "has to be more to the story". Imagine how high that percentage is within the "mainstreamers".

No folks, there is nothing "more" to this story.

----------


## TheTexan

> He made comments about severing heads and made it sound like he was ready to commence immediately.   Is that the truth you are talking about?  Or, did you even take the time to read his Facebook page?


Not making a comment on that until I receive a full quote of what you're talking about in PM.  But "general threats of violence" is not a crime.  (Except in Amerika)




> Go ahead and fling another insult, bxm, if that makes you feel like a big man.


Holy $#@! do you never let anything go?  I call you a hypocrite and the entire world collapses around you and its your sworn duty to bitch about it for the next 3 posts.  It's like when I -rep you, you spend the next 30 minutes venting frustration lol.

----------


## Professor8000

I think it may be about time for a lot of us to start connecting with our local militias, and probably get those NFA tax stamps.

----------


## LibertyEagle

I made one comment.  That doesn't exactly equate to "30 minutes of venting frustration".  

How about you grow up and can the personal insults, and get back to discussing the issue.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I think it may be about time for a lot of us to start connecting with our local militias, and probably get those NFA tax stamps.


I agree.

And yes, I know that any major militia outfit is going to be crawling with Fed Quislings.

No better time than now to get involved and expose them and run them off.

----------


## affa

> It is not a matter of agreeing with what has been done to him.  Rather, it is being cognizant of what is going on in our country all around us.  I question if some momentary internet bravado was worth him potentially being completely neutralized.  It doesn't seem wise to me.


if we were all silent, we would all believe we were alone.  we'd be neutered from the start.

and if we're not silent, then whatever is defined as 'fringe' (for there is always a fringe) would be 'dealt' with.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> if we were all silent, we would all believe we were alone.  we'd be neutered from the start.
> 
> and if we're not silent, then whatever is defined as 'fringe' (for there is always a fringe) would be 'dealt' with.


For the last time, there is a huge difference between "being silent" about what is going on in our country and saying you are getting ready to go out and sever some heads, etc. and express immediacy in doing so.

If you do not see the difference, I don't know what else to say.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Again?  LOL.  I wrote that before you even wrote your "trying to make this personal" edit.
> 
> And it's not personal.  I just call it as I see it.  *You're the queen of "not taking action."  I don't think I need to explain that for anybody here.*  Generally anything that makes waves, you're against it.


Perhaps you do.  Go right ahead.  You seem to want to insult me, go ahead.  Throw out your best, little man.

----------


## sailingaway

*Treatment of Others: Site members are expected to use the following standards in the treatment of others:

+ Be respectful of others users.
+ No insulting, antagonizing or personally attacking other users.
+ No posting of anyone's personal contact information.
+ Ad hominem attacks on any individual or groups is strongly discouraged, use proper names.
*

----------


## TheTexan

> Perhaps you do.  Go right ahead.  You seem to want to insult me, go ahead.  Throw out your best, little man.


... this again?  let it go already

----------


## LibertyEagle

And no, I did not flag you bxm.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> ... this again?  let it go already


What?  You are the one who said it MULTIPLE TIMES. 

I find your behavior extremely disingenuous.

----------


## Dr.3D

Oh hell, is this going to be the next thread to get locked?

----------


## TheTexan

> Oh hell, is this going to be the next thread to get locked?


Looks like it lol

----------


## shane77m

> Oh hell, is this going to be the next thread to get locked?





> Looks like it lol


Alex Jones

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Oh hell, is this going to be the next thread to get locked?


I sure hope not, this is too important to be locked over a member squabble.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Alex Jones


Now you said the magic word... that should do it.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I sure hope not, this is too important to be locked over a member squabble.


Maybe they can take it to another thread for that purpose.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Alex Jones


Inside Job.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Inside Job.


Outside job.

----------


## mac_hine

> Alex Jones






Lulz

----------


## TheTexan

Can't really contribute to a legal defense fund... if there's not a trial...

----------


## shane77m

> I sure hope not, this is too important to be locked over a member squabble.





> Maybe they can take it to another thread for that purpose.


I hope it doesn't get locked. I am really interested in what is happening with this story. This could be a preview of things to come.

----------


## pcosmar

I read this guys posts last night.. Most of it was nothing more than I have seen on dozens of sites, but the last few were curious.
It seemed that he was in contact with others,, perhaps elsewhere than Facebook. 
He mentioned that they were coming to get him,, to lead the Revolution.
perhaps the same Feds that came and got him..?? perhaps psyched him up first.
I don't know,, but he mentioned others,, and so there is some conversation that is not there.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Can't really contribute to a legal defense fund... if there's not a trial...


Who needs a trial?   All that went out the window when they made up some crap to bypass the constitution.

----------


## shane77m

> I read this guys posts last night.. Most of it was nothing more than I have seen on dozens of sites, but the last few were curious.
> It seemed that he was in contact with others,, perhaps elsewhere than Facebook. 
> He mentioned that they were coming to get him,, to lead the Revolution.
> perhaps the same Feds that came and got him..??
> I don't know,, but he mentioned others,, and so there is some conversation that is not there.


Perhaps some of the things he was saying were some type of code? I just find it odd that they picked him up for what I read. Maybe he knows something that is not supposed to get out.

----------


## TheTexan

> Perhaps some of the things he was saying were some type of code? I just find it odd that they picked him up for what I read. Maybe he knows something that is not supposed to get out.


Definitely cryptic, that's for sure

----------


## idiom

I am starting to wonder why we don't move this entire forum to a .onion address at this point.

If you are not familiar with how to get to a .onion address, learn it up. Its easy and it will be your future.

----------


## pcosmar

> Definitely cryptic, that's for sure


Unless there was other conversation,,elsewhere,, or removed.

He mentions others,, and that they are coming .

The rest of that unseen communication may fill the gaps. Nothing in the visible posts warrants rendition.(as if anything should)

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Oh hell, is this going to be the next thread to get locked?


Probably.

----------


## Professor8000

I have a real good friend of mine that was in the army a few years ago. He was a machine gunner in the infantry. He was stationed at Ft. Riley Kansas for the 18 months he served after basic. After about a month his unit was told they were being transfered from the First Infantry Division(Big Red One) to the First Armored Division(Old Ironsides). This began the tech upgrades for his unit as they were now becoming a mechanized infantry unit. They started training with Strikers and Land Warrior gear. Not long after this(about two months) they were given missions where they would load up on a C130 and fly for a couple of hours to a location where they would unload into a FEMA operation where they would have to go door to door and clear houses so that FEMA would have a secure area. The part that deeply disturbed my friend is that many people they encountered while clearing houses did not wish to leave and decided to protect their property with deadly force. Being the machine gunner for his squad, my friend was also the breach man and second in his "stack". In one instance he told me that he breached the door, his point man went in and immediatly went down and just as my friend got his M249 Bravo up he spotted a man with a rifle inside the house so he pulled the trigger and he described it as taking a leaf blower to a human shaped pile of leaves. The home owner and the point man were killed. In another instance my friend's squad was moving in the open and he took a hit to the chest but the bullet was stopped by the ballastic strike plate he was wearing inside his body armor.
My friend told me that everywhere they were sent FEMA was already set up before they got there. They were forced to fight US citizens defending their homes. He told me that that was not what he signed up for. About 15 months after these missions started my friend got into a fight with an officer and was given the option of an honorable discharge. He took it. About 3 months later he told me about his experiences in the Army. He also informed me that everyone he knows from his unit were sent to Afghanistan(this was the time of the Afghan troop surge) and they all were KIA within a few weeks. At least the ones that survived the "missions". He later found out that his military records were lost and that the Army has no record of him ever serving or receiving basic training.

Moral of the story? They are ready... Are you?

----------


## The Gold Standard

So we have Team Rand (LibertyEagle) criticizing the guy for speaking out rather than hiding behind the status quo and hoping "someone else" gets the message out. How ironic is that?

----------


## TheTexan

> So we have Team Rand (LibertyEagle) criticizing the guy for speaking out rather than hiding behind the status quo and hoping "someone else" gets the message out. How ironic is that?


Yes, but lets try not to go down that road again.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I am starting to wonder why we don't move this entire forum to a .onion address at this point.
> 
> If you are not familiar with how to get to a .onion address, learn it up. Its easy and it will be your future.


Soooo...the whole story is bull$#@!, that's your take on it?

----------


## TheTexan

> Soooo...the whole story is bull$#@!, that's your take on it?


No, no no... he was referring to a Tor address, Tor is a system that gives you a degree of anonymity on the internet

----------


## idiom

If we start having an information war, if the incident in this thread starts becoming normal, this forum just provides a to-do list for the government. If we don't pull the hat out of the bag in Tampa, or if RP doesn't go third party, then we need to move a lot of this underground.

If the story we are seeing is true then the government is brazenly testing the removal of dissidents. Right here, Right now.

Time to become familiar with the tools the dissident in Egypt and Iran are using to survive.

Then its time to seriously upgrade them.

Its all good to have a cupboard full of semi-automatic weapons you can upgrade in a pinch, but if you lose the information war you will never get to fire a shot.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> No, no no... he was referring to a Tor address, Tor is a system that gives you a degree of anonymity on the internet


Ah, my mistake, I thought "Onion" and satire.

Thanks for the correction.

----------


## pacelli

> he was taken to a Psychiatric Facility called Popluar Springs in Petersburg Va. So I called Popluar Springs and they have no record of his admittance.


Ok, I have to tell you that this is not protocol, in her shock she probably didn't hear exactly what they said.  Any psychiatric facility in the US, whether federal, public, or private, whatever, cannot divulge that kind of information about an adult, even to blood relatives.  The response they are legally required to tell callers is something to the effect of, 'I'm sorry but I can neither confirm nor deny the names or admission status of anyone in our facility/hospital'.    They're required to maintain confidentiality regardless of whether someone is a voluntary or involuntary admission, or not even there at all.   So just to be clear, even if the guy isn't there, they aren't allowed to tell her that either.



As far as this whole incident, this is all kind of strange and reeks of a set-up.





1984 was some years ago.  Look how far we've come.

----------


## NewRightLibertarian

I am watching a video about the guy right now, and I feel for him. But still, posting that kind of $#@! on the internet for everyone to see is a terrible idea. I am glad the Feds just detained him and didn't set him up to use him as a patsy or provoke some type of bloodbath.

----------


## NewRightLibertarian

> Some blather about action.
> 
> Others take it.


He should have taken measures to join or organize a militia locally to defend the homeland against tyranny. But what he posted suggested some delusions of grandeur and suggested that he wasn't thinking practically. I can totally empathetize with him considering what is going on in the country, but he should have taken a much more productive course of action.

----------


## Carlybee

> Moral of the story? They are ready... Are you?


Heck no.  I doubt many are.  The military has weaponry that can disintegrate you.  They can probably aim a laser at you from a satellite for all we know. We are screwed and all those lovely people in Congress who continue to allow the Patriot Act to exist and who have voted in favor of NDAA are responsible. Which is why I have no use for any of them.

----------


## TheTexan

> I am glad the Feds just detained him and didn't set him up to use him as a patsy or provoke some type of bloodbath.


Who says they didn't

----------


## Natural Citizen

It's a bit disturbing when you go to the mainstream news web sites like Fox News and MSNBC and do a search for the guy's name. No results whatsoever are returned. None. 

I mean it's not like they don't know about it.

----------


## TheTexan

> It's a bit disturbing when you go to the mainstream news web sites like Fox News and MSNBC and do a search for the guy's name. No results whatsoever are returned. None. 
> 
> I mean it's not like they don't know about it.


They will, they just need to find or be given a narrative to use to put it in their preferred context

----------


## LibertyEagle

I thought this was interesting.  

http://sgtreport.com/2012/08/brandon...the-awakening/

----------


## affa

> For the last time, there is a huge difference between "being silent" about what is going on in our country and saying you are getting ready to go out and sever some heads, etc. and express immediacy in doing so.
> 
> If you do not see the difference, I don't know what else to say.


"i'm going to kill that SOB when he gets home"
"let's blow this party up!"
"boom goes the dynamite"
"i'll murda ya"  (The Three Stooges)
"let's light this $#@! up!"
"the Ron Paul revolution"

words are words are words.  you should not get blackbagged for speaking.  even if i don't like your word choice.

but you're intent on vilifying someone you don't  know, and making excuses for what is basically blackbagging someone.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> "i'm going to kill that SOB when he gets home"
> "let's blow this party up!"
> "boom goes the dynamite"
> "i'll murda ya"  (The Three Stooges)
> "let's light this $#@! up!"
> "the Ron Paul revolution"
> 
> words are words are words.  you should not get blackbagged for speaking.  even if i don't like your word choice.
> 
> *but you're intent on vilifying someone you don't  know, and making excuses for what is basically blackbagging someone.*


Damn.  You just don't get it do you.

I am not agreeing with him being picked up.  I am saying that people should be cognizant of the laws that have been passed recently and not be taken out of the game unless it is on their own terms.

That's as close to spelling it out for you that I care to go.  If you still don't get it, it will just have to remain that way.

----------


## Indy Vidual

Saying _"sever some heads"_ on FB is a bad idea. LE does have a point.

----------


## shane77m

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...ce-ar-2140519/




> Brandon J. Raub, 26, was in Hopewell's John Randolph Medical Center on Saturday.
> 
> "*I'm currently in John Randolph in the psychiatric ward being held against my will," Raub said in a telephone interview*.
> 
> Reports of his detention Thursday have gone viral on the Internet.
> 
> Raub said Secret Service, FBI and Chesterfield police officers came to his home Thursday. "*They were concerned about me calling for the arrest of government officials,*" he said.


edit:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=arrested+NDAA

----------


## TheTexan

> I am not agreeing with him being picked up.  I am saying that people should be cognizant of the laws that have been passed recently and not be taken out of the game unless it is on their own terms.


If he was truly picked up under NDAA, I wouldn't call that being taken out of the game.  I would call that a gigantic $#@!ing spotlight on the fact that this country is $#@!ED.  UP.

And it certainly looks like this was "on his own terms"

----------


## NewRightLibertarian

> I thought this was interesting.  
> 
> http://sgtreport.com/2012/08/brandon...the-awakening/


Yes, that is a must watch for anyone who truly wants to understand the situation




> If he was truly picked up under NDAA, I wouldn't call that being taken out of the game. I would call that a gigantic $#@!ing spotlight on the fact that this country is $#@!ED. UP.


The country is certainly $#@!ed up. Looking at the guys facebook posts though indicate that the particular measures that were taken by the Feds may not have been out of line. This is assuming they aren't mistreating him or torturing him right now. I want to see how the situation plays out before we make any judgements.

----------


## Chester Copperpot

> http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...ce-ar-2140519/



Everybody should call for the arrest of government officials on their facebook pages..

----------


## LibertyEagle

> If he was truly picked up under NDAA, I wouldn't call that being taken out of the game.  I would call that a gigantic $#@!ing spotlight on the fact that this country is $#@!ED.  UP.


Didn't you already know this?




> And it certainly looks like this was "on his own terms"


That would mean that he expected to be detained.  I'm not convinced he did.

----------


## TheTexan

> Didn't you already know this?


Yes I do.  But that fact is hidden in the shadows at this point.  This incident by itself won't shed a whole lot of light on the situation, but it's a start.

----------


## Professor8000

> Everybody should call for the arrest of government officials on their facebook pages..


A while back I posted on my facebook a status update that basically said that Obama, Bush, and the many Congressmen and Beuraucrats that follow their lead in ignoring the US Constitution were/have committed treason and that I was going to exercise my constitutionally protected right to "alter, reform or abolish my government in such manner as I may think expedient." I basically called out the military in that post for violating their oath to the constitution as well. It garnered at least one friend from high school who was serving in the Air Force to unfriend me. Other than that... there were a few likes but that was about it. And that was almost a year ago.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> They will, they just need to find or be given a narrative to use to put it in their preferred context


Yes but as it is now they seem to be the only ones making like crickets. To me that equates to already contributing to any theoretical narrative. That's a problem. Especially with all of this legislation being scribbled....that they also refuse to report on.


And that really has nothing to do with whatever this guy said or did. It's the general practice that is disturbing.

We ask you decide? Phttt.

----------


## freedomordeath

Come on poeple, the sheeple are taking over the comments section on youtube, this is going viral and is a perfect time to try educate sheeple to Ron Pauls message.




One of the guys posted that the emial adreess for the FBI dude is Richmond@ic.fbi.gov, and to e-mail him to ask whats up.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> Come on poeple, the sheeple are taking over the comments section on youtube, this is going viral and is a perfect time to try educate sheeple...


This might be a perfect time to educate you about not calling the people _sheeple. _ 
Dr. Ron would not approve...

----------


## freedomordeath

> This might be a perfect time to educate you about not calling the people sheeple.
> Dr. Ron would not approve...


 ok srry, plugged into the central bank matrix. We need to unplug them with the red pill.

----------


## freedomordeath

He posted this on Aug on his FB (got this from an articel http://www.businessinsider.com/brand...etained-2012-8 )

I found this interesting because never seen this one before, seen loads of this stuff.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I keep telling you this but I don't think you get it yet.  We're *all* on their lists.  He was simply at the top of the list.



Ding ding ding.  Yep.  And it will only get easier to be on the list, or next on the list, unless more people start talking.

----------


## TruckinMike

> Saying _"sever some heads"_ on FB is a bad idea. LE does have a point.


Sorry, But I',m not buying it. Thats typical internet banter on 2ndAm, freedom, and liberty oriented forums. This guy hasn't said anything that could be consider as a REAL threat. Its not like he was conspiring with some folks to bomb a building, take hostages, and then "sever their heads".  

Get real folks - do not fall prey to the "that sounds too radical for me" PC crowd that are too beat down to even have a political discussion. There are thousands upon thousands of post like this fellows all over the web ---- and I haven't seen a rash of beheadings -- have you??

TMike

----------


## Nickwanz

On further inspection it seems he wanted them to come get him, like he knew the last few things he said would raise red flags. I think he knew the "men at his door" would be feds.....like he wanted to draw attention to how we are all being watched, and how we can be taken away.

----------


## MJU1983

Looks like we share a handful of the same "friends".

----------


## sailingaway

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...by-police.html

lots in there ^^

including a video of the not-arrest-but-taking-for-involuntary-psychiatric-evaluation per the article.

----------


## sailingaway

Apparently his brother (?) started a new twitter acct and is putting out stuff, he's at John Randolph in Hopewell, near Richmond and there is a hearing Monday around 10:30.

https://twitter.com/RaubBrent

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Apparently his brother (?) started a new twitter acct and is putting out stuff, he's at John Randolph in Hopewell, near Richmond and there is a hearing Monday around 10:30.
> 
> https://twitter.com/RaubBrent


Thanks sailingaway, following, rt'ing, and posted on FB.

----------


## chris41336

I think this is fairly cut and dry.

Our marvelous federal government has a way of "giving opportunities" to those who they deem would be terrorists or commit acts of terror. They have done this with young, extremist-linked Muslims where they get in contact with them and tell them that they want to help (disguised as some other group) and want to provide them with weapons, etc., to accomplish their goals. They then set a meeting time and such and when they get there, they get arrested for attempt to commit terrorist acts. This has happened in the past. IMO, it is a type of entrapment but that's neither here nor there.

So what I think happened here based on what is on this guy's wall, is that he is a bit out of his mind, likely due to PTSD. He says all this stuff about a revolution on FB, etc., and behind the scenes actually plots and plans ways to make this happen. Contacts people. They get him other contacts. He thinks that a revolution is starting (meanwhile, it is the Feds leading him on) until the "revolutionaries" finally say "we will come over and bring weapons and really get the revolution started. What do you think? We can kill xxxx as a start." to which he likely replied in the affirmative.

Then, the Feds had all the ground they needed to swoop in and arrest him at the fake meeting.

People, we have an _actual_ Revolution to win. Let us not waste time on those who would make our group as a whole seem crazy. At least not until we are in a safer spot than we are now.

----------


## sailingaway

> I think this is fairly cut and dry.
> 
> Our marvelous federal government has a way of "giving opportunities" to those who they deem would be terrorists or commit acts of terror. They have done this with young, extremist-linked Muslims where they get in contact with them and tell them that they want to help (disguised as some other group) and want to provide them with weapons, etc., to accomplish their goals. They then set a meeting time and such and when they get there, they get arrested for attempt to commit terrorist acts. This has happened in the past. IMO, it is a type of entrapment but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> So what I think happened here based on what is on this guy's wall, is that he is a bit out of his mind, likely due to PTSD. He says all this stuff about a revolution on FB, etc., and behind the scenes actually plots and plans ways to make this happen. Contacts people. They get him other contacts. He thinks that a revolution is starting (meanwhile, it is the Feds leading him on) until the "revolutionaries" finally say "we will come over and bring weapons and really get the revolution started. What do you think? We can kill xxxx as a start." to which he likely replied in the affirmative.
> 
> Then, the Feds had all the ground they needed to swoop in and arrest him at the fake meeting.
> 
> People, we have an _actual_ Revolution to win. Let us not waste time on those who would make our group as a whole seem crazy. At least not until we are in a safer spot than we are now.


but by all means let's make up a back story to make a guy dragged off against his will for psychiatric evaluation seem crazier than we know he is?

If the govt doesn't want normal people passing all this around on the internet they should immediately get rid of NDAA Sec. 1021 and HR 347 and the Patriot Act and other laws which normal people can easily imagine being erroneously used against themselves for merely excersizing free speech.

----------


## pcosmar

File this story and remember it if this guy is trotted out as a shooter in some contrived event in the future.
There is no way of knowing what they are doing to him. (drugging/programing).

I can't help thinking there is an iceberg here and we only see the tip.

----------


## chris41336

> but by all means let's make up a back story to make a guy dragged off against his will for psychiatric evaluation seem crazier than we know he is?
> 
> If the govt doesn't want normal people passing all this around on the internet they should immediately get rid of NDAA Sec. 1021 and HR 347 and the Patriot Act and other laws which normal people can easily imagine being erroneously used against themselves for merely excersizing free speech.


I'm not excusing what the government did, nor the fact that we sadly live in a nation where someone like him cannot speak his mind without fear of being dragged for psychic evaluation.

What I am saying is that we need to let things like this empower us to know that we are fighting for the right cause, and divert that energy into more important things such as running for office and supporting those who believe in liberty.

At the end of the day, these military goons support who is in power. If we have liberty lovers in power, then and only then will this nonsense end.

----------


## sailingaway

Nothing about making it visible if something like this happens detracts from supporting good candidates where we see them.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Apparently his brother (?) started a new twitter acct and is putting out stuff, he's at John Randolph in Hopewell, near Richmond and there is a hearing Monday around 10:30.
> 
> https://twitter.com/RaubBrent


His brother... or someone acting as his brother?   One has to wonder in a situation like this.

----------


## ravedown

think of facebook as a billboard on the side of a busy freeway- if i post a picture of myself holding a rifle, with a quote about starting a revolution, severing heads and 'coming for you' on the billboard....i'd expect a visit sooner or later. this isn't too surprising.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> think of facebook as a billboard on the side of a busy freeway- if i post a picture of myself holding a rifle, with a quote about starting a revolution, severing heads and 'coming for you' on the billboard....i'd expect a visit sooner or later. this isn't too surprising.


Agreed. If he posted all that, then he clearly went too far.

----------


## sailingaway

> think of facebook as a billboard on the side of a busy freeway- if i post a picture of myself holding a rifle, with a quote about starting a revolution, severing heads and 'coming for you' on the billboard....i'd expect a visit sooner or later. this isn't too surprising.


except it isn't anything like a billboard by a freeway. It is something people do to share with friends and like minded folks from the privacy of their homes and unless you cross their interests you would have no reason to see it at all.  I don't use it, because I know it is such a data mining boondoggle, but that is how people think of it, much more like email, which you 'can' also get into, much less like a 'billboard'.

I didn't read the severing heads or coming for you business, but I read all kinds of macho crap posted as a mod that doesn't seriously make me think people are about to take action, and I think that is pretty common.  Yes, I delete it, or issue warnings, but that is BECAUSE the situation is twisted against the first amendment imho.   I think it should take more than that to drag someone off for forced psych evaluation.  It is just that, of course, I can't be sure they didn't have more that we just aren't aware of. I sure hope as hell for the state of this country that they did have more.

----------


## Lucille

ZH Guest Post: Former Marine Arrested For Patriotic Posts On Facebook




> *Former Marine Arrested For Patriotic Posts On Facebook*
> 
> First the establishment started going after current serving military men for their outspoken political views on Facebook and other web venues, men like Marine Sergeant Gary Stein.  Now, it seems the government is going after veterans as well.  This is the classic pattern of a burgeoning totalitarian state; attack a small group first (outspoken serving military) which the public ignores because it affects them little personally, then slowly expand out to eventually include everyone else.  To all those insipid bottom feeders out there who refused to defend Gary Stein's right to free speech, here is what you have wrought.  Because of your ignorance, the government has been able to set a social precedent which they now plan to apply to a whole new group of people, starting with former Marine Brandon Raub.  The common statist slave will give the typical coward's response, which would sound a little something like this:
> 
> _"...When are people going to learn that Facebook isn't private?  You would have to be stupid to express such views where everyone can see..."
> 
> "They didn't arrest him, they just 'detained' him..."
> 
> "He's former military and should be 'ashamed' of his comments against the government., blah blah blah, etc..."_
> ...

----------


## ravedown

many sites (including this one) have made it very clear the homeland security is filtering content on facebook and twitter for just this kind of red flag. this guy just did the government a big favor....he said (allegedly) all the right things to get a visit and allow the MSM to call out another potential 'would-be terrorist' has been caught. the system works! i don't agree with it of course- i think it's bull$#@! what happened to this guy. had he been a friend or family member of mine....i would have definitely told him to watch his back posting that stuff...the feds and local cops are hypersensitive and can't wait to make an example out of people like this.

----------


## pcosmar

> many sites (including this one) have made it very clear the homeland security is filtering content on facebook and twitter for just this kind of red flag. this guy just did the government a big favor....he said (allegedly) all the right things to get a visit and allow the MSM to call out another potential 'would-be terrorist' has been caught. the system works! i don't agree with it of course- i think it's bull$#@! what happened to this guy. had he been a friend or family member of mine...*.i would have definitely told him to watch his back posting that stuff*...the feds and local cops are hypersensitive and can't wait to make an example out of people like this.


Then we are screwed.



> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;* or abridging the freedom of speech,* or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.





> “First Amendment freedoms are most in danger when the government seeks to control thought or to justify its laws for that impermissible end. The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.”—Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy





> “Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.”— Harry Truman


And this,



> “If large numbers of people believe in freedom of speech, there will be freedom of speech, even if the law forbids it. But if public opinion is sluggish, inconvenient minorities will be persecuted, even if laws exist to protect them.”—George Orwell,

----------


## idiom

I wouldn't email or PM that sort of thing if I was American.

This is a country that fingerprints every single visitor. It is a full blown police state. It is however a modern 'democratic' police state. One boils the frogs extremely slowly so that any frog that notices get called an idiot by the other frogs.

----------


## Carlybee

This goes back to when it was decreed that Ron Paul supporters and former military personnel could be profiled as potential homegrown terrorists.  Of course they want to shut former military people up.  They could be a threat in the event of an uprising of the people against a military state.  They took an oath to uphold the Constitution...something the gov't aka Big Brother seems intent on destroying.

----------


## freedomordeath

> i think it's bull$#@! what happened to this guy. had he been a friend or family member of mine....i would have definitely told him to watch his back posting that stuff...the feds and local cops are hypersensitive and can't wait to make an example out of people like this.


WHAT!!!!!!!!! WHY MUST HE WATCH HIS BACK SAYING WHAT WE ALL THINK. If I start talking about USS liberty, will I be traced, papers processed for my arrest and thrown in Jail for being hateful even though I merely state facts. This is being patriotic showing disent. Many poeple don't have billion dollar bank accounts to postively influence the political environment. Our resources and labour are being used against by the central banking matrix. We supply them the cash to fund the attack against us. They have this vast machinary and we are mere little knats to be squashed. Many poeple ask what can be done against these beasts. 

There is your answer, you can DEFIANTLY TYPE AWAY ON YOUR FACEBOOK and be ready to be bagged and tagged for your country. I know patriots see themselves as a Rambo holding a 50cal machine gun in their DREAMS, but the reality is what happened to Brandon.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> WHAT!!!!!!!!! ...


Ron Paul teaches us about *peaceful* action.
Is everyone who is defending this guy aware that he said: _starting a revolution_ & _severing heads...?_

----------


## TheTexan

Reminds me of this skit:




Except, the skit should now say, "Did you know it is illegal to say 'severing heads' on Facebook?  Very illegal!  Federal offense!  It's one of the many, many, many things that are illegal to say""

----------


## freedomordeath

> Ron Paul teaches us about peaceful action.
> Is everyone who is defending this guy aware that he said: starting a revolution & severing heads...?


true what you say, peaceful is the right way, but the founding fathers also talked about the 2nd amendment to protect your freedoms. I think this dude is getting ready for that time in the future, so hopefully we can make sure RP is nominated, there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH GETTING READY, nothing wrong with it and being prepared. Its also a good time to arm yourself and join a militia, thats in the constitution.

----------


## Indy Vidual

If you bury the words with mindless dance music you might be OK:

Who will tell my drunken friend that she will die and go to hell? She sings la dee dee da...






> ..."Did you know it is illegal to say 'severing heads' on Facebook?  Very illegal!  Federal offense!  It's one of the many, many, many things that are illegal to say""


*60 Severed Heads Found on Southwest Jet


*

----------


## Indy Vidual

> true what you say, peaceful is the right way, but the founding fathers also talked about the 2nd amendment to protect your freedoms. I think this dude is getting ready for that time in the future, so hopefully we can make sure RP is nominated, there IS NOTHING WRONG WITH GETTING READY, nothing wrong with it and being prepared. Its also a good time to arm yourself and join a militia, thats in the constitution.


Fine.
On one hand our military is way too powerful, but we certainly are having trouble setting the Middle Eastern people free crushing the resistance in the Middle East.

_Peaceful_ is still the right way...

----------


## freedomordeath

> Fine.
> On one hand our military is way too powerful, but we certainly are having trouble setting the Middle Eastern people free crushing the resistance in the Middle East.
> 
> Peaceful is still the right way...


the best chance we have is to legaize gold and silver as legal tender and take all taxes off gold and silver. This way we can cut the power to the matrix. They'll still try tax us, but they cannot use the hidden tax of inflation anymore.. this must be our primary goal.

Also poeple live in this fairy tale peace at all costs thing. Yes I agree with this, armed struggle must be used when all other avenues have been exhausted, but there comes a point where you have to protect your wife and kids, when you have to do your job as a man, as head of your household. Some poeple jump the gun and are too eager for voilence and this is where the wiser voices must prevail.

Anyway, we not at this point now, we all got a job to do in TAMPA and that is nominate Ron Paul by supporting our delegates.

----------


## DamianTV

(First 30 or so seconds is footage of the arrest.  News follows afterwards.)

Still trust FedBook?  Still think it is a great way to convey the message of Liberty?  It wont be long until anything that we say on FarceBook lands our asses in jail.  Heres, your Liberty, and your Prison Cell.

----------


## Carlybee

Is there a list of things that can't be said on Facebook?  Is the list posted in Facebook's TOS?  Personally I rarely post anything political on FB.

----------


## TruckinMike

> I wouldn't email or PM that sort of thing if I was American.
> 
> This is a country that fingerprints every single visitor. It is a full blown police state. It is however a modern 'democratic' police state.* One boils the frogs extremely slowly so that any frog that notices get called an idiot by the other frogs*.


 Just like in this forum and on this thread.

----------


## sanssq

> It's really simple. If you want free speech, don't join the military.


Where does it say in the Constitution that you give up your constitutional rights forever if you were in the military at one time?

----------


## pacelli

If the report earlier is true that he has been involuntarily committed for psychiatric evaluation, and there's a trial today at 10:30, this is likely to be a trial to evaluate whether they have justification to hold him to complete the evaluation, and, how many days they can hold him involuntarily until another court date is set.   

In my experience these types of trials are often held on-site (a judge and attorneys travel to the facility and hold court in a conference room or something).  Part of the evaluation might involve observation, psychological testing, etc.  Another topic that can be brought up at these types of trials is whether there is justification for forced medication.

----------


## wgadget

This morning's lead post on LewRockwell.com

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/rosenberg-p7.1.1.html

----------


## phill4paul

> This morning's lead post on LewRockwell.com
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/rosenberg-p7.1.1.html


  Thanks.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

Ben Swann is now working on this story....

----------


## ClydeCoulter

HOT: Statement from Brandon Raub's Attorneys 
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...Journal.com%29




> “For government officials to not only arrest Brandon Raub for doing nothing more than exercising his First Amendment rights but to actually force him to undergo psychological evaluations and detain him against his will goes against every constitutional principle this country was founded upon. This should be a wake-up call to Americans that the police state is here,” said John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute. “Brandon Raub is no different from the majority of Americans who use their private Facebook pages to post a variety of content, ranging from song lyrics and political hyperbole to trash talking their neighbors, friends and government leaders.”

----------


## sailingaway

> HOT: Statement from Brandon Raub's Attorneys 
> http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...Journal.com%29


So far I like the Rutherford Institute attorneys.  I've seen their work before.  Constitution oriented.  Glad they are on this.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> This morning's lead post on LewRockwell.com
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/rosenberg-p7.1.1.html


Shamelessly cross posting whole article.

Thanks for the tip.

----------


## RonRules

Daily Paul ‏@dailypaul
Attorney Statement on Brandon Raub; Raub to Be Detained Indefinitely http://bit.ly/NVuw7B #RonPaul2012

----------


## sailingaway

> Daily Paul ‏@dailypaul
> Attorney Statement on Brandon Raub; Raub to Be Detained Indefinitely http://bit.ly/NVuw7B #RonPaul2012





> In a hearing before a special justice on August 20, government officials again pointed to Raub’s Facebook posts as the sole reason for their concern and for his continued incarceration. Ignoring Raub’s explanations about the fact that the Facebook posts were being read out of context and his attorney’s First Amendment defense, the special justice agreed that Raub should be incarcerated at a VA hospital for up to 30 more days. Rutherford Institute attorneys are working to challenge Raub’s detention and the highly unconstitutional nature of the government’s actions.


wow.

----------


## Dr.3D

> wow.


And even if he does manage to get released, look at how long it took to make that happen.   What will happen to those who no one saw being taken away in the dark of the night and thus no one knows to help them?

----------


## phill4paul

Anyone that doesn't believe there is an actual 'War on Us' better take this to heart.

----------


## Natural Citizen

Still nothing from msm on it? The case seems to be one of historic relevance and importance. Could even call it a benchmark case.

So much for the Fourth Estate here. To ignore it is complacent. These organizations ought to be receiving thousands of communications asking why.

----------


## seaweed

complacent and complicit

----------


## Dr.3D

> Still nothing from msm on it? The case seems to be one of historic relevance and importance. Could even call it a benchmark case.
> 
> So much for the Fourth Estate here. To ignore it is complacent. These organizations ought to be receiving thousands of communications asking why.


Same old story... "nothing to see here folks, now move along."  Of course it's even easier if it isn't mentioned in the first place.  I doubt even if they received hundreds of thousands of communications asking why, they still wouldn't mention it.   Of course that would be the tip off for those thousands of people asking why.

----------


## Carlybee

I think a protest is in order. If millions of people can come together for Pussy Riot you would think they could do the same for .....oh wait.....they will think he deserved it.

----------


## phill4paul

30 days evaluation. 30 days without communication. If he HAD a job he no longer does.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I think a protest is in order. If millions of people can come together for Pussy Riot you would think they could do the same for .....oh wait.....they will think he deserved it.


Kind of hard for even thousands to do anything if they don't know anything has happened.

----------


## Dr.3D

> 30 days evaluation. 30 days without communication. If he HAD a job he no longer does.


Maybe they will let him declared that he was on jury duty.

----------


## shane77m

> I think a protest is in order. If millions of people can come together for Pussy Riot you would think they could do the same for .....oh wait.....they will think he deserved it.





> Kind of hard for even thousands to do anything if they don't know anything has happened.


Sad thing is that no body cares. Most people will think he is an aspiring terrorist that got what he deserved.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Sad thing is that no body cares. Most people will think he is an aspiring terrorist that got what he deserved.


Of course they would, if the media got hold of it and presented it that way.  And I'm pretty sure, if the media did cover this, that is how they would present it.

----------


## Natural Citizen

If enough people jump on it then they have to report. That's the way it is. Flood them. All of them.

This is the part where we are on our own, folks. This is the part where it was never about Ron Paul, the man. Now it's your turn.

In the end it can only be said that you did something versus not. Show them that yes actually we _do_ care. And here is how many of us there are.

No facebook. Email them all.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/MEDIA_EMAIL_ADDRESSES.htm

----------


## phill4paul

> Of course they would, if the media got hold of it and presented it that way.  And I'm pretty sure, if the media did cover this, that is how they would present it.


  They are just waiting until there is enough internet chatter about it. Why report it if you don't have to? If there is enough interest the story will break, briefly, and say exactly what it will take to turn this into a 'terrorist plot twarted' meme.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Daily Paul ‏@dailypaul
> Attorney Statement on Brandon Raub; Raub to Be Detained Indefinitely http://bit.ly/NVuw7B #RonPaul2012


In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

----------


## phill4paul

> In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence


  Well see? He HASN'T been criminally charged. He is undergoing EVALUATION. Silly Constitution.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Anyone that doesn't believe there is an actual 'War on Us' better take this to heart.





> 30 days evaluation. 30 days without communication. If he HAD a job he no longer does.


And an "involuntary committal" on your "permanent  record" will disqualify from just about any job in the future.

It most certainly is a "war on us".

Trouble is, most people, even here, think you're being nothing more than a paranoid conspiracy weirdo, while innocent people are being dragged off right before our eyes, to locations and futures unknown.

It won't matter until it happens to them or a loved one.

Then, more than likely, they'll be making weaksauce justifications for *that*.

----------


## Evilfox

Just talked to my friend who is a producer for CBS Morning show, she booked the Mom and the Attorney for a story. Trying to help out as much as I can for this man.

----------


## phill4paul

> Just talked to my friend who is a producer for CBS Morning show, she booked the Mom and the Attorney for a story. Trying to help out as much as I can for this man.


  A pre +rep if it proves to be true.

----------


## Evilfox

> A pre +rep if it proves to be true.


Its legit, I made contact with this producer when the Trevon Martin case was happening near my house and the national media was staying at my hotel.

----------


## freedomordeath

> In a hearing before a special justice on August 20, government officials again pointed to Raub’s Facebook posts as the sole reason for their concern and for his continued incarceration. Ignoring Raub’s explanations about the fact that the Facebook posts were being read out of context and his attorney’s First Amendment defense, the special justice agreed that Raub should be incarcerated at a VA hospital for up to 30 more days. Rutherford Institute attorneys are working to challenge Raub’s detention and the highly unconstitutional nature of the government’s actions.





> wow.


WTF Even as a South African I'm shocked, this is normal in most 3rd world type countries incl mine, but never expected this to happen in America.

I'm not a big 9/11 dude, and have an open mind so don't rule out anything, but the 5 dancing Isrealies kinda left a sour taste in the mouth and something tells me some poeple at the very least knew what was going down. If this government's intention was to avoid 9/11 going Main stream then its time to blow the fcker wide open. (lol not literally, I mean't in the verbal or keyboard warrior sense incase CIA are reading this)

----------


## zachrbroussard

I was told from someone in the military that for 4 years after active duty, an ex-serviceman is treated the same as active duty regarding speaking out against the government etc. Raub was active duty until 2011, making his language against Obama and the govt "illegal" and possibly treasonous. 

Anyone have any knowledge on the rules/ laws for this?

----------


## dillo

Lindsey Grahm was right, the terrorists are here in America, the federal government

----------


## tmg19103

I don't have the time to read the whole 25 pages and don't know if it was mentioned, but this amounts to an involuntary commitment which means he will never be able to legally purchase a firearm for the rest of his life.

Not that not being able to legally purchase a firearm will stop a determined criminal or nut, but this is the new form of gun control. 

Write something the government does not agree with and could *possibly* be perceived a threat, you are involuntary committed and not only are several rights violated, but upon release your 2A rights are eradicated forever.

----------


## Indy Vidual

Of course now he claims it's _"out of context"_, since they have hauled him away.


<*re*-post: I'm re-posting this from the other Raub thread, since I want to see if it clears up the issue, or...>


{{Let's take a few seconds to _get on the same page_, so we don't waste time and cause misunderstandings}}

Issue 2: *Freedom of Speech and Orwellian Pre-Crime*

Should people be allowed to say what he did, without getting picked up by the Gov?
Yes, of course they should be.


Issue 1: *Ron Paul Supporters who Want a Violent Revolution*

If you are looking to start up, or support people who are starting, a violent revolution then you are in the wrong place.If you are intentionally trying to make Ron Paul supporters appear to support violence, then you are/could be a traitor.
Since Brandon was a Ron Paul supporter who was also "ready for violence", he does not deserve our support.
His type makes us all look bad, and increases the danger we are already in.

----------


## sailingaway

I'm not convinced he was ready to start a violent revolution, and if they based it ONLY on facebook as supposedly they did, that is a huge problem.  Taking that WITH other facts might be different.  I've seen elsewhere that the worst line, the one about severing heads, was a quote from a song.  And your 'Ron Paul supporters who want a violent revolution' is a strange allegation. Name _one_.

How many message boards contain language about guns having to be pried from someone's cold, dead hands' etc?  Is everyone who posts that subject to involuntary psych evaluation?

----------


## zachrbroussard

> I was told from someone in the military that for 4 years after active duty, an ex-serviceman is treated the same as active duty regarding speaking out against the government etc. Raub was active duty until 2011, making his language against Obama and the govt "illegal" and possibly treasonous. 
> 
> Anyone have any knowledge on the rules/ laws for this?


? Anyone?

----------


## sailingaway

> ? Anyone?


I find it hard to believe that is true. For generations people were drafted and had no choice in being in active duty.  None of them can complain about the government?

----------


## pcosmar

> ? Anyone?


Once your service contract ends you are a citizen,, period.

----------


## pcosmar

> <*re*-post: I'm re-posting this from the other Raub thread, since I want to see if it clears up the issue, or...>


No it doesn't,  and it is insulting to Ron Paul supporters and any American.

----------


## monte

> ? Anyone?


 Maybe your friend is talking about being inactive reserves. Usually for 4 years after active duty, you are an inactive reservist. I doubt there are speech regulations or whatever, for those inactive reservists.

----------


## sailingaway

> Maybe your friend is talking about being inactive reserves. Usually for 4 years after active duty, you are an inactive reservist. I doubt there are speech regulations or whatever, for those inactive reservists.


there is something for reserves, that is why that guy who spoke out to CNN in fatigues got in trouble I think. I don't think he was active duty but reserve.  I think the problem was the fatigues, otherwise I think I remember it would have been ok.  It was kind of an 'appearance of endorsement by military' quasi 'intellectual property' meme as I read it.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> Of course now he claims it's _"out of context"_, since they have hauled him away.
> 
> 
> <*re*-post: I'm re-posting this from the other Raub thread, since I want to see if it clears up the issue, or...>
> 
> 
> {{Let's take a few seconds to _get on the same page_, so we don't waste time and cause misunderstandings}}
> 
> Issue 2: *Freedom of Speech and Orwellian Pre-Crime*
> ...





> ...And your 'Ron Paul supporters who want a violent revolution' is a strange allegation. Name _one_...


Brandon Raub, if you take his words literally.
There are others, but they might be intentionally trying to make us look bad.


It's not rocket science:
>>> If you are looking to start up, or support people who are starting a violent revolution, then you are in the wrong place.

----------


## sailingaway

> Brandon Raub, if you take his words literally.
> There are others, but they might be intentionally trying to make us look bad.
> 
> 
> It's not rocket science:
> >>> If you are looking to start up, or support people who are starting a violent revolution, then you are in the wrong place.


nothing I've read by Raub said he WANTED a violent revolution, although I didn't read everything.

I agree that no one here is into starting a violent revolution, but honestly, the tack you are taking is getting stranger and stranger.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

He may even be (kinda) where he thought he would be. hmmm.........

----------


## Indy Vidual

Well now you know:




> nothing I've read by Raub said he WANTED a violent revolution, although I didn't read everything.
> 
> I agree that no one here is into starting a violent revolution...



Words of *Brandon Raub*

I’m starting                  the Revolution. I’m done waiting. 8/10/12
Sharpen                  up my axe; I’m here to sever heads. 8/13/12 
The Revolution                  will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to                  lead it. 8/14/12
The Revolution                  is here. And I will lead it. 8/14/12

----------


## ClydeCoulter

How many people have quoted JFK's "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. "?

He said that and was president.

----------


## LibertyEagle

I understand what Indy Vidual is saying.  But, to me the issue is now that this American is being held against his will, with no charges, no nothing.  If they are not going to charge him, he should be released.  What they are doing is unconstitutional.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Well now you know:
> 
> 
> 
> Words of *Brandon Raub*
> 
> I’m starting                  the Revolution. I’m done waiting. 8/10/12
> Sharpen                  up my axe; I’m here to sever heads. 8/13/12 
> The Revolution                  will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to                  lead it. 8/14/12
> The Revolution                  is here. And I will lead it. 8/14/12


And what do we call our movement?  rEVOLution...................

edit: And, men came and picked him up, and what now?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Well now you know:
> 
> 
> 
> Words of *Brandon Raub*
> 
> I’m starting                  the Revolution. I’m done waiting. 8/10/12
> Sharpen                  up my axe; I’m here to sever heads. 8/13/12 
> The Revolution                  will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to                  lead it. 8/14/12
> The Revolution                  is here. And I will lead it. 8/14/12


If they are not going to charge him, he should be released.

----------


## low preference guy

> If they are not going to charge him, he should be released.


there is a law that allows them to commit him to a psychiatric ward if he is considered to have a psychiatric problem that is an imminent threat to himself or others. they're using that.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> there is a law that allows them to commit him to a ward if he is considered to have a psychiatric problem that is an imminent threat to himself or others. they're using that.


There's a crap load of people in power that you could say that about, look at *all the harm* (hey, that's the name of one of my songs).

----------


## sailingaway

> Well now you know:
> 
> 
> 
> Words of *Brandon Raub*
> 
> I’m starting                  the Revolution. I’m done waiting. 8/10/12
> Sharpen                  up my axe; I’m here to sever heads. 8/13/12 
> The Revolution                  will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to                  lead it. 8/14/12
> The Revolution                  is here. And I will lead it. 8/14/12


but don't people here say 'bring the R3VOLution meaning just a change in thinking? and my understanding is that the axe line is directly from a song.  (I don't know any song like that, but I read that somewhere.  Can't confirm)

I don't get the last two lines but it still seems very very slim to think he's going to actually do something in the near future.  It sounds more like 'come the Revolution!' crap people had to write in college to get decent grades from Marxist professors at one point.  Angsty beatniks wrote it for generations with nary a revolution in sight.  But whatever.  I didn't read his other pages, just the one I cut and pasted.  I just don't think words without more justify this except under really egregious circumstances and I don't see those here.

Honestly, when they can drag someone off just for being melodramatic on facebook, they have created a standard that is no standard at all, since they can use it or not, at will.

----------


## low preference guy

> He made it clear that he was ready to start the revolution, something about severing heads and that he is coming for them.  While holding a rifle in his avatar.


that's not very different from Sarah Palin telling her supporters to reload.




> It was stupid of him.


if anyone is stupid, it's you.

----------


## newbitech

> Well now you know:
> 
> 
> 
> Words of *Brandon Raub*
> 
> I’m starting                  the Revolution. I’m done waiting. 8/10/12
> Sharpen                  up my axe; I’m here to sever heads. 8/13/12 
> The Revolution                  will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to                  lead it. 8/14/12
> The Revolution                  is here. And I will lead it. 8/14/12


context?

----------


## sailingaway

> I understand what Indy Vidual is saying.  But, to me the issue is now that this American is being held against his will, with no charges, no nothing.  If they are not going to charge him, he should be released.  What they are doing is unconstitutional.


*^^^THIS!!*

----------


## low preference guy

> There are 10,000+ posts a day equivalent to his post --- Obviously THEY ARE USING HIM AS AN EXAMPLE to instill FEAR in the population.


exactly.

----------


## low preference guy

> This is why I don't have a Facebook. Plain and Simple.


it's not very different from posting here, since the information available here is public.

----------


## low preference guy

> The point I was trying to make is that if you truly believe this is all going to end up in some kind of civil war, do you think it is wise to have yourself taken out of the effort, *for something so meaningless as some internet bravado?*


it could be more than that. it's reasonable to expect he will be freed, and will show what America has become. exercise of free speech is punishable, and he is participating civil disobedience. it's a new low for you to mock that.

----------


## low preference guy

> *You seem to want to insult me*, go ahead.  Throw out your best, *little man*.




the queen of hypocrisy

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> the queen of hypocrisy


She posted that in post #128, your's is #270.  You are asking for it.

----------


## low preference guy

> She posted that in post #128, your's is #270.  You are asking for it.


hey, i'm just reading the thread for the first time, and you don't come across such clear hypocrisy every day.

----------


## The Free Hornet

> I don't have the time to read the whole 25 pages and don't know if it was mentioned, but this amounts to an involuntary commitment which means he will never be able to legally purchase a firearm for the rest of his life.
> 
> Not that not being able to legally purchase a firearm will stop a determined criminal or nut, but this is the new form of gun control. 
> 
> Write something the government does not agree with and could *possibly* be perceived a threat, you are involuntary committed and not only are several rights violated, but upon release your 2A rights are eradicated forever.


You may have hit on the crux of it.  Perhaps ex-marines in the liberty movement ought not be so casual with their threats.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> there is a law that allows them to commit him to a psychiatric ward if he is considered to have a psychiatric problem that is an imminent threat to himself or others. they're using that.


Back on topic, this seems to be what they are doing, especially since a few of his posts exihibited delusions of granduer (a classic symptom of mental disorder, but not necessarily of violence). They need to have more evidence to hold him for more than 72 hours. When is that up?

----------


## Indy Vidual

We certainly agree on this.



> ...
> 
> Honestly, when they can drag someone off just for being melodramatic on facebook, they have created a standard that is no standard at all, since they can use it or not, at will.


_Should people be allowed to say what he did, without getting picked up by the Gov?
Yes, of course they should be._

----------


## 40oz

I know some of you disowned Kokesh. None the less, he interviewed the family and a friend of Raub...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> You may have hit on the crux of it.  Perhaps ex-marines in the liberty movement ought not be so casual with their threats.


Yep, it's not a good idea to make threats at any time. Let's list what evidence the authorities had here:

- threats of violence. Not really a big deal by itself. It's too common.
- signs of delusions. More of a deal shortly after the theater shooter and Jared Loughner in AZ. (But let's be clear, schizophrenia in no way predicts violence. It would be medically wrong and collectivist to say that all people with mental disorders are dangerous).
- and last, but certainly not least, the SPLC through its contracts with DHS and the media has primed and conditioned them to suspect and fear military Veterans and anyone proclaiming any views from a long list of patriotic, economic or Constitutional views.

You decide which of those is most destructive of civil liberties, and leads directly to political persecution.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> Words of Brandon Raub
> 
> Im starting the Revolution. Im done waiting. 8/10/12
> Sharpen up my axe; Im here to sever heads. 8/13/12
> The Revolution will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to lead it. 8/14/12
> The Revolution is here. And I will lead it. 8/14/12





> context?


Context?
I feel like I am standing at a great crossroads. As if a storm of  destiny is about to pick me up and take me to fight a great battle.  7/24/12

----------


## newbitech

> Context?
> I feel like I am standing at a great crossroads. As if a storm of  destiny is about to pick me up and take me to fight a great battle.  7/24/12


sounds spiritual to me.  got any more?  I know the bible is referred to as the sword.  His axe is the truth and the heads that are going to roll are those in wall st., the gov't etc who will be smitten by his truth.  Talking about decapitating people is not an uncommon metaphor we hear when someone in a powerful position makes a big mistake.

It doesn't sound like he has a history of mental illness.  

What was that saying about how a country treats it's vets?  I would have much rather seen him at least brought in to a military court martial if he did indeed act treasonous rather than a civilian court incapable of bringing charges against real terrorist due to lack of any kind of substantial evidence. 

I think this is all about his views of 9/11.  THere i said it.

----------


## DamianTV

> I was told from someone in the military that for 4 years after active duty, an ex-serviceman is treated the same as active duty regarding speaking out against the government etc. Raub was active duty until 2011, making his language against Obama and the govt "illegal" and possibly treasonous. 
> 
> Anyone have any knowledge on the rules/ laws for this?


There are several Amendments, the very very first thing that was placed as the highest priority, including guns is Free Speech.  Thats the only law / rule we need to be concerned with.  Everything else is an excuse because the only thing that is considered a real crime in this country is a crime against the 1%.

----------


## ord33

I haven't read every post on this thread and this is speculation on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if this guy from Department of Homeland Security turned him in.

If you notice on a lot of the 9/11 related pictures that Brandon posted, there is a guy Dustin Lee Meadows that confronted him on nearly every post in the comments. He happens to work for DHS. http://www.facebook.com/dustin.l.meadows

Here is an example of a picture that Brandon Raub posted that Dustin commented on: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

Edit: Whoops. Didn't realize that Dustin no longer works for DHS, but it is still a possible connection from where he used to work there.

----------


## shane77m

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1817484.html
Huff Post done a story on this. As with the comments section on most articles they don't leave a liberty lover with much hope for the general populace.

----------


## SilenceDewgooder

I can't listen to it at work... so if it's garbage... let me know...

----------


## pcosmar

> I can't listen to it at work... so if it's garbage... let me know...


My computer and internet give me problems,, but from the first few minutes,, the guy sounds like he is both sane and articulate.
And not too badly drugged at this point. Who knows what he will sound like after 30 days in that place.

----------


## pacelli

Sounds good to me.  Its a shame that he is in this unfortunate predicament.  I liked the final question and response.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I can't listen to it at work... so if it's garbage... let me know...


Well, it seems the government has locked him up for thirty days based upon his internet postings. A quick conversation with him should have determined whether or not he was severely mentally ill (like the "joker" from the Theater shooting). They need hard evidence to go beyond the 72 hour hold. Based on that interview, he does not appear to be out of touch with reality, or an imminent threat to himself or others. 

The only conclusion that can be arrived at with the information we have right now is that Raub is currently a political prisoner.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> ...
> What was that saying about how a country treats it's vets?  I would have much rather seen him at least brought in to a military court martial if he did indeed act treasonous rather than a civilian court incapable of bringing charges against real terrorist due to lack of any kind of substantial evidence. 
> ...


IMHO, the correct course of action would have been for them to send a military doctor and civilian doctor to talk to him at his home. Barring any signs of him being bat-$#@! looney and a danger to himself or others, they should have explained the concerns with his posts, and then left.

----------


## SilenceDewgooder

Video from TMOT -Once again.. still can't listen to it..

----------


## Merk

> Back on topic, this seems to be what they are doing, especially since a few of his posts exihibited delusions of granduer (a classic symptom of mental disorder, but not necessarily of violence). They need to have more evidence to hold him for more than 72 hours. When is that up?


I don't know what the law is in his state but in OR in order to get the psych-hold over 72 hours the person has to have a hearing before a judge.

I don't think it would be too hard to find a judge to go along with an over 72 hour hold based on some of his Facebook stuff.

I don't agree with that or think it is correct, just saying I don't think *that* judge would be too hard to find.

Or they could just NDAA his ass and be done with it.

----------


## TheTexan

> Or they could just NDAA his ass and be done with it.


Which is what this is conditioning us for

----------


## Merk

> Which is what this is conditioning us for


It's how the Nazis did it.  Very few people actually had to be hauled off in order to gain total compliance of the population.  Fear alone kept them in check.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Video from TMOT -Once again.. still can't listen to it..


As usual, he has some good points. In this particular video though, he gets sidetracked with assassination conspiracy theories, which distract from the subject at hand.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> ...
> I don't agree with that or think it is correct, just saying I don't think *that* judge would be too hard to find.
> ...


Correct, they had the hearing, and kept him longer. They did it without reasonable cause though (from the evidence we have right now). Unfortunately, this is a far too subjective area of the law. Leave it to the people who actually administer the system to distort or ignore the letter and intent of the law.

----------


## Todd

> This is why I don't have a Facebook. Plain and Simple.


+1

----------


## SilenceDewgooder

> As usual, he has some good points. In this particular video though, he gets sidetracked with assassination conspiracy theories, which distract from the subject at hand.


Sounds like TMOT

----------


## The Free Hornet

> Correct, they had the hearing, and kept him longer. They did it without reasonable cause though (from the evidence we have right now). Unfortunately, this is a far too subjective area of the law. Leave it to the people who actually administer the system to distort or ignore the letter and intent of the law.


Do you think he is maintaining his right to be silent?  Would that be good advice?

I understand that can be murky with 'evaluations' as they involve a doctor and certain protections that are supposed to gain your compliance (e.g., maybe the information can't be used against you in a criminal trial - but if it can lock you in the loony bin, what's the difference?).

----------


## Merk

> Do you think he is maintaining his right to be silent?  Would that be good advice?
> 
> I understand that can be murky with 'evaluations' as they involve a doctor and certain protections that are supposed to gain your compliance (e.g., maybe the information can't be used against you in a criminal trial - but if it can lock you in the loony bin, what's the difference?).


He has no rights at this point and was never read his miranda rights as he was not "arrested".

Oathkeepers has an article up.



> The strategy allowed the Soviets to severely stifle anti-government speech for quite some time, feeding terror into the citizenry who now carefully censored themselves for fear of authoritarian retribution, not to mention the possible betrayal of friends and neighbors who might turn them in for a pat on the head from the state.  In fact, the widespread propaganda that the communists promoted amongst the public was that anyone who actually did speak out against the government “had to be mentally ill”, creating entirely new clinical designations to categorize those who refused to comply.  Professors operating in the Soviet run Moscow Serbsky Institute claimed that:
> 
> “Most frequently, ideas about a struggle for truth and justice are formed by personalities with a paranoid structure…”
> 
> Now, compare this abuse of psychiatry to the DSM-IV-TR manual used by doctors today in the diagnosing of mental illness.  In it, you will find the term “oppositional defiance disorder”, a supposed illness which encompasses anybody who is disobedient, defiant, a free thinker, or even considered hostile toward authority.

----------


## Dr.3D

Riddle- When can you be arrested but not arrested at the same time?

Answer: When you are involuntarily held for "evaluation" at a psychiatric hospital.

Seems they think they have found a loophole in the U.S. Constitution.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> This is why I don't have a Facebook. Plain and Simple.





> +1


-43

This is why you all need facebook accounts and if you don't want to share anything personal, you better start sharing your political views more than ever.  You're on the list anyway.  You can be there alone, or you can help make the list so big, it is useless.

When "BSU kid" and "Todd" stop posting on RPF, we'll never know you got hauled off.  We'll just think your lives got busier or something.

----------


## pacelli

> Do you think he is maintaining his right to be silent?  Would that be good advice?
> 
> I understand that can be murky with 'evaluations' as they involve a doctor and certain protections that are supposed to gain your compliance (e.g., maybe the information can't be used against you in a criminal trial - but if it can lock you in the loony bin, what's the difference?).


In a routine psychological evaluation with an involuntary patient in at least 4 states that I've worked in (and many others I might add), the patient still hase the right to refuse.  Of course refusal to participate/cooperate tends to increase length of stay.  

e.g.--"Given that the patient refuses to cooperate with this evaluation, continued psychiatric observation is recommended".

----------


## The Free Hornet

> -43
> 
> This is why you all need facebook accounts and if you don't want to share anything personal, you better start sharing your political views more than ever.  You're on the list anyway.  You can be there alone, or you can help make the list so big, it is useless.
> 
> When "BSU kid" and "Todd" stop posting on RPF, we'll never know you got hauled off.  We'll just think your lives got busier or something.


And you will never know when a silent ban kicks in here.  Liberty people ought to network on a number of sights but using a place antithetical to liberty, free/anonymous speech, and under the control of psychopath who wants so much for his company to join the ranks of Google and Microsoft (who have their claws into far too much already) is a bad idea.

Facebook needs to join the ranks of MySpace in the dustbin of internet history.

I don't have a solution.  Diaspora is a possibility; as are discussion groups without heavy handed control (e.g., someone vested in a discussion ought not have ban authority much beyond that discussion, not the whole group).

Facebook might serve the purpose of 'Hey I've been disappeared!!!!!".  It will *NEVER* serve the purpose of, 'How do we rescue that $#@!?".

----------


## Rebelrouser

The more facts that come out about this case, the more I think this was simply a way for whichever DHS/FBI field office handling the complaint (wherever it came from) to circumvent the 2nd amendment and make a preemptive gun grab.  They don't want a combat-trained soldier who questions the motives of Big Brother being able to legally possess firearms. 

18 U.S.C.S. 922 (g)(4)
It shall be unlawful for any person –
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a
mental institution,
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting interstate
commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which
has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


18 U.S.C.S. 922(a)(6)
It shall be unlawful –
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any
firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer,
or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement
or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or
likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact
material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition
under the provisions of this chapter.
18 U.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> And you will never know when a silent ban kicks in here.  Liberty people ought to network on a number of sights but using a place antithetical to liberty, free/anonymous speech, and under the control of psychopath who wants so much for his company to join the ranks of Google and Microsoft (who have their claws into far too much already) is a bad idea.
> 
> Facebook needs to join the ranks of MySpace in the dustbin of internet history.



Be fine with me.  lol.





> I don't have a solution.  Diaspora is a possibility; as are discussion groups without heavy handed control (e.g., someone vested in a discussion ought not have ban authority much beyond that discussion, not the whole group).
> 
> Facebook might serve the purpose of 'Hey I've been disappeared!!!!!".  It will *NEVER* serve the purpose of, 'How do we rescue that $#@!?".


This is a start - https://www.facebook.com/RogerPionTheMagnificent

----------


## low preference guy

> And you will never know when a silent ban kicks in here.  Liberty people ought to network on a number of sights but using a place antithetical to liberty, free/anonymous speech, and *under the control of psychopath* who wants so much for his company to join the ranks of Google and Microsoft (who have their claws into far too much already) is a bad idea.


a lot of the time I agree with your posts, but the piece you linked to arguing that zuckerberg is a psychopath is an embarrassment.

----------


## The Free Hornet

> a lot of the time I agree with your posts, but the piece you linked to arguing that zuckerberg is a psychopath is an embarrassment.


Someone more qualified might have to link the various actions and stories to paint a better profile.  For example,




> Facebook CEO Admits To Calling Users Dumb $#@!s
> 
> Mark Zuckerberg admits in a New Yorker profile that he mocked early Facebook users for trusting him with their personal information. A youthful indiscretion, the Facebook founder says he's much more mature now, at the ripe age of 26.
> 
> *"They trust me  dumb $#@!s,"* says Zuckerberg in one of the instant messages, first published by former Valleywag Nicholas Carlson at Silicon Alley Insider, and now confirmed by Zuckerberg himself in Jose Antonio Vargas's New Yorker piece. Zuckerberg now tells Vargas, "I think I've grown and learned a lot" since those instant messages.
> 
> http://gawker.com/5636765/facebook-c...ers-dumb-$#@!s


Whether or not he is a psychopath, I will _agree with Zuckerberg's assessment_: people that trust him are dumb $#@!s.*


*no offense, and I'm sure a great many FB users do not trust him

----------


## pcosmar

> It will *NEVER* serve the purpose of, 'How do we rescue that $#@!?".


And that "How do we rescue that $#@!?" Can not be discussed or planned on any electronic and observable media.
It can not involve radios or telephones.
That is a discussion for an open field,,or darkened warehouse. And between folk with both the will and means to do so.

This is a reality that CAN NOT BE DISCUSSED.

----------


## dusman

Why all the focus on "arrest"? It really doesn't matter whether they call it an arrest or not. 

Our Constitution provides protections against both "search" and "seizure" in the 4th Amendment. 

*SEIZURE* as defined in Black's Law Dictionary:
_
The act or an instance of taking possession of a person or property by legal right or process; esp. in Constitutional law, a confiscation or arrest that may interfere with a person's reasonable expectation of privacy._ 

So, whether they call it an arrest or not is moot. They seized his person and that is a violation of his 4th Amendment right. 

They wouldn't even be able to argue that it wasn't an arrest. 

*ARREST* as defined in Black's Law Dictionary:

_1) a seizure or forcible restraint. 2) The taking or keeping of a person in custody by legal authority, esp. in response to a criminal charge. 
_
-------------

I think Brandon needs to file a lawsuit, IMHO.

----------


## pcosmar

*
Judge refuses to stop transfer of detained Va. vet*
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world...p-1503555.html

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> And that "How do we rescue that $#@!?" Can not be discussed or planned on any electronic and observable media.
> It can not involve radios or telephones.
> That is a discussion for an open field,,or darkened warehouse. And between folk with both the will and means to do so.
> 
> This is a reality that CAN NOT BE DISCUSSED.



https://www.facebook.com/RogerPionTheMagnificent has 4,000+ likes, and over 4,000 people talking about it.  Those 4,000 people have XX,XXX friends who were also exposed to it.  Right now, we are led to believe that popular opinion matters.  A lot of us have spent quite a bit of time (online or offline) trying to influence popular opinion.  

Right now, that's how we rescue that $#@!.  Either that, or we get popular opinion on our side to the point where the liars at the top are forced to acknowledge that popular opinion doesn't mean a thing to them.  That's progress.  We know it, but other people don't.  Nothing beats a personal testimonial from a friend, which is why facebook has value.  (given that we have no privacy anyway - might as well make personal testimonials when possible.)

----------


## pcosmar

> https://www.facebook.com/RogerPionTheMagnificent has 4,000+ likes, and over 4,000 people talking about it.  Those 4,000 people have XX,XXX friends who were also exposed to it.  Right now, we are led to believe that popular opinion matters.  A lot of us have spent quite a bit of time (online or offline) trying to influence popular opinion.  
> 
> Right now, that's how we rescue that $#@!.  Either that, or we get popular opinion on our side to the point where the liars at the top are forced to acknowledge that popular opinion doesn't mean a thing to them.  That's progress.


It would help to raise awareness..
He has just been moved across the state away from family and friends.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> a lot of the time I agree with your posts, but the piece you linked to arguing that zuckerberg is a psychopath is an embarrassment.


zuckerberg may be a sociopath, and the line between sociopath and psychopath seems to not be recognized much anymore.  He has shown a lack of regard for people and their information ever since he started.  Read up.  That doesn't change my opinion about using the medium.

----------


## newbitech

> As usual, he has some good points. In this particular video though, he gets sidetracked with assassination conspiracy theories, which distract from the subject at hand.


i like how he tied it together though.  and i like how he ended it talking about the executive order.  not much of a conspiracy if they TELL you they are going to do it.

----------


## newbitech

> In it, you will find the term “*oppositional defiance disorder*”, a supposed illness which encompasses anybody who is disobedient, defiant, a free thinker, or even considered hostile toward authority.


from the oathkeepers.org featured article.

----------


## phill4paul

> The more facts that come out about this case, the more I think this was simply a way for whichever DHS/FBI field office handling the complaint (wherever it came from) to circumvent the 2nd amendment and make a preemptive gun grab.  They don't want a combat-trained soldier who questions the motives of Big Brother being able to legally possess firearms. 
> 
> 18 U.S.C.S. 922 (g)(4)
> It shall be unlawful for any person 
> (4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a
> mental institution,
> to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting interstate
> commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which
> has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
> ...


  5-10 years. Handgun and 'assault rifle' purchase. Mandatory psych eval. You heard it here first.

----------


## idiom

> And you will never know when a silent ban kicks in here.  Liberty people ought to network on a number of sights but using a place antithetical to liberty, free/anonymous speech, and under the control of psychopath who wants so much for his company to join the ranks of Google and Microsoft (who have their claws into far too much already) is a bad idea.
> 
> Facebook needs to join the ranks of MySpace in the dustbin of internet history.
> 
> I don't have a solution.  Diaspora is a possibility; as are discussion groups without heavy handed control (e.g., someone vested in a discussion ought not have ban authority much beyond that discussion, not the whole group).
> 
> Facebook might serve the purpose of 'Hey I've been disappeared!!!!!".  It will *NEVER* serve the purpose of, 'How do we rescue that $#@!?".


Go here:

http://kpvz7ki2v5agwt35.onion/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

You will need this:

https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en

In the information war its time to stop being unarmed.

_This post has been for informational purposes only._

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> *
> Judge refuses to stop transfer of detained Va. vet*
> http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world...p-1503555.html





> ...
> RICHMOND, Va. — A judge has refused a request to stop a Virginia veteran detained for radical anti-government Facebook posts from being moved to a psychiatric ward three hours from his home.
> ...
> Raub was taken to the hospital by Chesterfield County police Thursday after being questioned by the FBI and the U.S. Secret Service. Chesterfield police say county mental health crisis intervention workers recommended the temporary detention.


He is in the system now. And it has been become clear that no one is willing to take the *responsibility* for saying that he is ok for release. He is in the hands of a bunch of CYA obsessed bureaucrats. They have no justification for holding him at this point.

----------


## Carlybee

> from the oathkeepers.org featured article.


Gee I must be all eaten up with it then.  I prefer to call it the "KMA you Ignorant Douchebags, I believe in the Constitution" disorder.

----------


## Carlybee

I think this is a test and this guy is the first example.  There will be more.

----------


## pcosmar

> I think this is a test and this guy is the first example.  There will be more.


Ya think?



I'm damn well sure of it.

----------


## shane77m

Finally made Drudge.

----------


## mport1

Well, I guess this guy is really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff), but that isn't a crime...




> “If you are my friend, you deserve to know the truth. This world is secretly run by a shadow organization of people who among other things enjoy raping children. Some of leaders were involved with the bombing of the twin towers. It was a sacrifice and a complete inside job. *Also the Bush’s [sic] are very sick twisted problems. I believe they have a secret Castle in Colorado where they have been raping and sacrificing children for many years.* Think I’m crazy? Think again.” Raub wrote in a July 28, 2012 Facebook post.





> On August 7, 2012 Raub posted to his  profile a picture of men in robes by a lake with the caption, ” Do you know that world leaders sacrifice children in robes?”


Unfortunately he will be used to paint the liberty movement in a bad light.

----------


## idiom

> Well, I guess this guy is really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff), but that isn't a crime...
> 
> Unfortunately he will be used to paint the liberty movement in a bad light.


You are not even new here...

----------


## squarepusher

> Well, I guess this guy is really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff), but that isn't a crime...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately he will be used to paint the liberty movement in a bad light.



Sounds like he was listening to too much Alex Jones.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> Well, I guess this guy is really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff), but that isn't a crime...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				“If you are my friend, you deserve to know the truth. This world is  secretly run by a shadow organization of people who among other things  enjoy raping children. Some of leaders were involved with the bombing of  the twin towers. It was a sacrifice and a complete inside job. *Also  the Bush’s [sic] are very sick twisted problems. I believe they have a  secret Castle in Colorado where they have been raping and sacrificing  children for many years.* Think I’m crazy? Think again.” Raub wrote in a July 28, 2012 Facebook post.
> ...





> Sounds like he was listening to too much Alex Jones.


A quick Google search reveals young Brandon might be listening to too much David Icke who archives a story by Stew Webb which "verifies" the...
...The Kimball Castle in Sedalia, Colorado, (edit out directions/Be careful kids!).

Further after these Satanists do their murder, you will normally find them at the "Cherry Creek Country Club " playing Golf. 
Note: Stew Webb is accused by Pamela Schuffert (at a different link) of being a *Dangerous COINTELPRO for the FBI & Patriot Movement Infiltrator*



Edit:
*Fair and Balanced*:

Webb (the guy accused by Pamela Schuffert of being COINTELPRO) is/was in deadly fear of being killed by Leonard Millman, powerful CIA drug money launderer and member of the satanist community of Denver as well. 
Ironically Pamela Schuffert says "*In truth, my further research DID confirm* that Millman WAS indeed a satanist and very powerful, and was indeed the CIA drug money launderer and involved in much darkness."
^^^
Want a link?
Are you serious?  
Google it quick before they scrub the Net.




Some people have what it takes to find _"the truth"_, others prefer NFL football 
Less than three weeks til' kickoff!!

----------


## pcosmar

Rather that base your rants against this man,,based on a song lyric that he posted.. 
Why not read some of the stuff he posted,, not just the last posts taken  out of context.

http://wtvr.com/2012/08/21/full-text...republic-back/

----------


## TruckinMike

> from the oathkeepers.org featured article.





> n it, you will find the term “oppositional defiance disorder”, a supposed illness which encompasses anybody who is disobedient, defiant, a free thinker, or even considered hostile toward authority.


So if our politicians/ATF/IRS (our entire Federal government) are defiantly  opposed to following their only authority - The  Constitution - doesn't that make them all subject to 30 days detainment for mental evaluation at some undisclosed location? Hhhmmm, would old sea containers suffice for detainment centers? 

TMike

----------


## unknown

Doesnt look the least bit combative.  

I find this most concerning: A judge ordered Raub detained for another month...

Articles neglect to mention that the now famous Fedbook post ("sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads") is from this song, check out the top comment:

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Doesnt look the least bit combative.  
> 
> I find this most concerning: A judge ordered Raub detained for another month...
> 
> Articles neglect to mention that the now famous Fedbook post ("sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads") is from this song, check out the top comment:


Thanks for the video link, shared.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Doesnt look the least bit combative.  
> 
> I find this most concerning: A judge ordered Raub detained for another month...
> 
> *Articles neglect to mention that the now famous Fedbook post ("sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads") is from this song*, check out the top comment:


The fact that this comes from a song is very relevant (and the media incompetent for not reporting it). At this point, there is as much evidence to take the guys who wrote this song in for extended psychiatric hold as there is for Raub: i.e. no evidence to hold him! He is a political prisoner. There is no doubt.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> The fact that this comes from a song is very relevant (and the media incompetent for not reporting it). At this point, there is as much evidence to take the guys who wrote this song in for extended psychiatric hold as there is for Raub: i.e. no evidence to hold him! He is a political prisoner. There is no doubt.


Yes. Well. Let's not promote the idea of having copywrite infringement added to his list of no no's.

Yeah. It's that bad.

----------


## sailingaway

> Well, I guess this guy is really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff), but that isn't a crime...
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately he will be used to paint the liberty movement in a bad light.



why would we let people do that?  Find me the threads here about world leaders sacrificing children in robes......

now, praying to an Owl, that's different.... 

but no, I don't think this is a funny situation.  Thanks for bumping the thread.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> He is in the system now. And it has been become clear that no one is willing to take the *responsibility* for saying that he is ok for release. He is in the hands of a bunch of CYA obsessed bureaucrats. They have no justification for holding him at this point.


This results in an interesting confluence of events. CYA obsessed bureaucrats effectively hold political prisoners, thus doing something they probably don't intend (which others do, and have been working towards), and at the same time, they set the *precedent* for those who do want to imprison people on a political basis. The road to hell...paved with good intentions, and those who manipulate people with good intentions.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Yes. Well. Let's not promote the idea of having copywrite infringement added to his list of no no's.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> why would we let people do that?  Find me the threads here about world leaders sacrificing children in robes......


No, but one may very well at times find a link to various and legitimate discussion relevant to some of the things that are being thrown out there wrecklessly and serving only to place them into relevance with this veteran's mindset. Did you see what just happened? If I were to have posted this discussion from last night would it not have been at risk for being accepted as "...really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff)..."?

Could be said.

I've purposefully not read any of this veteran's postings. I've only read what I've read here. Was actually waiting to hear what kind of language we'd get from main stream. From what I've read, the veteran has issues upstairs that he carried over to the general public. People actually follow these folks' mindset. They do. That cannot be argued. So he is where he is.

----------


## pcosmar

> I've purposefully not read any of this veteran's postings.


Perhaps you ought to. And listen to the man speak as well. (there is audio, Phone call on video)

Aside from not buying the Bull$#@! story about 9/11 there is nothing crazy in his writing.

http://freebrandonraub.com/

----------


## Anti Federalist

*"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken*

Come and get me, motherfuckers.

----------


## pcosmar

http://freebrandonraub.com/?cat=4
*RUTHERFORD INSTITUTE FILES NOTICE OF APPEAL CHALLENGING ARREST & DETENTION OF MARINE IN PSYCH WARD FOR POSTING POLITICAL VIEWS, SONG LYRICS TO FACEBOOK*


*
Brandon Raub Hearing on 23 August 2012*
There is a hearing tomorrow (23 August 2012) at the Hopewell Circuit Court in Va. The hearing is at 11:30am. We are asking people to come out and show support. We suggest getting there around 10/10:30am.

The Address:
100 East Broadway
Hopewell, Va 23860

For those who live in Virginia, here are the contact details for your elected officials:

VA 04 – Randy Forbes (R)
202/225-6365 fax: 202/226-1170

—–

VA Senator Mark R. Warner (D)
202/224-2023 fax: 202/224-6079

Staff Contact – Beatriz Ibarra
Email: senator@warner.senate.gov

——

VA Senator James Webb (D)
202/224-4024 fax: 202/224-6363

Email: http://webb.senate.gov/contact
Staff Contact – Adam Schiff

----------


## Dr.3D

> No, but one may very well at times find a link to various and legitimate discussion relevant to some of the things that are being thrown out there wrecklessly and serving only to place them into relevance with this veteran's mindset. Did you see what just happened? If I were to have posted this discussion from last night would it not have been at risk for being accepted as "...really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff)..."?
> 
> Could be said.
> 
> I've purposefully not read any of this veteran's postings. I've only read what I've read here. *Was actually waiting to hear what kind of language we'd get from main stream.* From what I've read, the veteran has issues upstairs that he carried over to the general public. People actually follow these folks' mindset. They do. That cannot be argued. So he is where he is.


Well, here is what was on FOX news.

----------


## TheTexan

Hit piece [obviously]

----------


## Dr.3D

> Hit piece [obviously]


Yeah, that former prosecutor is an idiot... but that was what we expected to see on the MSM.

----------


## pcosmar

> Yeah, that former prosecutor is an idiot... but that was what we expected to see on the MSM.


Especially on Faux,, though any of them really..
I read his stuff,, it was not anti-government.. It was pro Constitution,, 

And that quote from a song (that he posted a video of) is being twisted all out of shape.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Especially on Faux,, though any of them really..
> I read his stuff,, it was not anti-government.. It was pro Constitution,, 
> 
> And that quote from a song (that he posted a video of) is being twisted all out of shape.


I know that, you know that, but the viewers of that channel will mostly gobble it up as if it was all true.

----------


## freedomordeath

Apperantly the 2nd video on the opening post has been challenged by a person called Jake Patterson.

This is a quote from a youtube channel that I read




> Could you please take this video down. As much as it is appreciated you getting the word out, the orginal video is monetized and copy-written so that the funds go to Brandon's legal fees. I am﻿ fighting with youtube right now, because someone name Jake Patterson claimed the video was his, which I already proved was false, just waiting on their reply.
> 
> IamKristenMeghan 2 hours ago

----------


## KEEF

> Well, I guess this guy is really into crackpot conspiracy theories (in addition to more mainstream truther/chemtrail stuff), but that isn't a crime...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately he will be used to paint the liberty movement in a bad light.


Not to feed more into conspiracy theories, but do a search on Skull and Bones, Bush, and Jerry Sandusky.  There is some pretty interesting stuff out there.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Well, here is what was on FOX news.


Wow. Just wow. The prosecutor says that unless someone can "*guarantee*" to him that a person is not going to do violence, they did the right thing in locking him up. Prove a negative, eh? Let's try this: Unless someone can give us an absolute guarantee that the prosecutor in that interview is not going to rape and murder a girl in the future, he must be locked up. It's the prudent thing to do. We can not take a chance. Sure, he didn't post anything about it on Facebook, but he's clever! Of course he won't post about it. You can see it in his eyes, and that's proof enough.

And when will these idiot reporters figure out that the "ax" quote is from a song!

----------


## Natural Citizen

> Well, here is what was on FOX news.


I had previously left my take on the discussion as it were left with this particular clip. I assume it was deleted. Which leaves me with no motivation to discuss it any further here.

----------


## low preference guy

> It was stupid of him.


what you mockingly call "a moment of internet bravado" and a stupid action already has as a consequence the airing of this great alert from Ben Swann about how we are losing our liberties.




this was aired on Fox in Ohio. this alone shows that the "stupid" action of this guy you mock has done more for liberty than you have done in your lifetime.

----------


## TruckinMike

> *"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken*
> 
> Come and get me, motherfuckers.


I see your HL Mencken and raise you a T.Jefferson...




> "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Question:  If every time we try and instill  fear in the government (via the first amendment) we are thrown in the looney bin, how else are we to instill fear in them?

Answer: refer to Mencken quote.

----------


## pcosmar

Re-posted from another thread,,for clarity.




> Psikhushka


Had to Google that (damn my curiosity)




> *Psikhushka* (Russian: психушка) is a Russian colloquialism for psychiatric hospital. It has been occasionally used in English since the Soviet dissident movement and diaspora community the West used the term. In the Soviet Union, psychiatric hospitals were often used by the authorities as prisons in order to isolate political prisoners from the rest of society, discredit their ideas, and break them physically and mentally; as such they were considered a form of torture.[2] The official explanation was that "no sane person would declaim against Soviet government and communism".

----------


## Indy Vidual

Now he's forgotten about?

----------


## pcosmar

> Now he's forgotten about?


No,, he isn't.  Nor are the other 20 in his state alone.
Nor are the several other POWs around the country.

Their family and friends know,, others know.. And support for the resistance grows with each and every one.

----------


## puppetmaster

Just now watched the interview..... ...our gov is out of contol

----------


## Pericles

The judge that authorized the commitment and the material used to support that via "informants" all deserve to become famous.

----------

