# Lifestyles & Discussion > Science & Technology >  Making an old 90's style BBS?

## VIDEODROME

This is a peculiar interest I've started looking into.  I think it started with exploring Linux and even Unix and seeing that old technology can be dusted off and further developed. 

So why the hell would I revisit the old Dial-Up bulletin board?  

Well, I like to think such things are off the general radar if you find things like PRISM annoying.  Also, while many such BBSes in the past were dial-up services for local clubs or HAMs, eventually some were on the regular internet and you browsed them through Telnet.  What I'm interested in are the few open source BBS systems out there that support SSH.  

I think it would be funny as hell if a forum based almost entirely on the SSH protocol could be locked up tight.  

I'm in the very early stages of checking into this and if somehow I actually make one I'll post how I did it. I also wondered if anyone else, particularly HAMs who use 'Packet Radio', know much about this stuff.

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## heavenlyboy34

Sounds like a neat project.  Hope it turns out well!

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## GunnyFreedom

> This is a peculiar interest I've started looking into.  I think it started with exploring Linux and even Unix and seeing that old technology can be dusted off and further developed. 
> 
> So why the hell would I revisit the old Dial-Up bulletin board?  
> 
> Well, I like to think such things are off the general radar if you find things like PRISM annoying.  Also, while many such BBSes in the past were dial-up services for local clubs or HAMs, eventually some were on the regular internet and you browsed them through Telnet.  What I'm interested in are the few open source BBS systems out there that support SSH.  
> 
> I think it would be funny as hell if a forum based almost entirely on the SSH protocol could be locked up tight.  
> 
> I'm in the very early stages of checking into this and if somehow I actually make one I'll post how I did it. I also wondered if anyone else, particularly HAMs who use 'Packet Radio', know much about this stuff.


Actually, others are doing this, because the bandwidth on AMPRNet is small enough, and the FCC rules prohibiting packet radio from connecting to the Internet (due to the potential for the broadcast of commercial data) make old-school BBS the go-to system for AMPRNet systems.

It appears that Internet/AMPRNet gateways are starting to appear out in the wild, desperately illegal though they may be, (FCC needs to die, btw) and there are burgeoning communities in the AMPRNet 44.0.0.0 IP range with resources out the wazoo. 

I imagine all you really need to do is set up a BBS on your LAN, assign it a 44.x.x.x IP and stick it in the AMPRNet DMZ, and go.

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## CPUd

You should deny all web browsers except lynx:

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## GunnyFreedom

Huh.  I didn't know that vBulletin provided that well developed of a text-only interface.

An old-school BBS however, didn't require any kind of browser at all.  It was it's own interface.

However, that does make the problem of coming up with BBS software that much easier if you set up a TCP/IP based board and let people access it in a browser.  Lynx in particular.

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## VIDEODROME

lol this is actually more feedback than I expected.  

For now I'm looking into SynchroNet BBS software with Ubuntu Server.

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## GunnyFreedom

> lol this is actually more feedback than I expected.  
> 
> For now I'm looking into SynchroNet BBS software with Ubuntu Server.


Terminal based, so no browser.  Accessing the terminal may be outside of the capabilities of some people.  It's easy to get to on all POSIX systems like Unix, BDS, Linux, Mac OS, but IIRC you have to enable it in Windows 7 with the installer?

I dunno, anyone running Win7 that has NOT enabled the terminal (not the command prompt) do you know how to get to it?

Apparently the Telnet Client is turned off by default starting in Win7, but you can enable it.

enable Telnet by following these steps:

Click StartControl PanelPrograms And FeaturesTurn Windows features on or offCheck Telnet ClientHit OK

And the telnet client can only be started via commandline, which for some non-POSIX users may be a problem.

I like the idea myself, and I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but who will be accessing the BBS?  If you have to Telnet in it may narrow your audience a bit.  Though I would imagine anybody up on AMPRNet is not about to be stymied by a Telnet Client.

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## GunnyFreedom

I'm assuming that in order to access the SynchroNet BBS across TCP/IP and/or AMPRNet you must necessarily use a Telnet Client.  Telnet is unfortunately quickly becoming vestigial, and only a small portion of people know what it is or how to use it.  If you specifically have a very narrow audience that's OK.  If you want a broader audience, it may be a good idea to run a slim client Internet BBS and provide browser access.  EVERYONE knows how to use a browser.

It all depends on your implementation and your audience really.

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## VIDEODROME

I think Telnet is fading because of security concerns.  

At first, I'm not that worried about getting a lot of people to sign up.  It's more of an experiment.  Also, my plan is to graduate from my Associate's program this Fall. I would like to make a Resume/Portfolio page and this could be an unusual feature added to it. I could say I'm a SysOp.  


I would like to see something using the more secure SSH protocol.  Maybe Windows machines could use Lynx or simply PuTTY.  I'm not sure if Putty is good for things like this or "ANSI Graphics", but it's a starting point.

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## VIDEODROME

I think Telnet is fading because of security concerns.  

At first, I'm not that worried about getting a lot of people to sign up.  It's more of an experiment.  Also, my plan is to graduate from my Associate's program this Fall. I would like to make a Resume/Portfolio page and this could be an unusual feature added to it. I could say I'm a SysOp.  


I would like to see something using the more secure SSH protocol.  Maybe Windows machines could use Lynx or simply PuTTY.  I'm not sure if Putty is good for things like this or "ANSI Graphics", but it's a starting point.

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## Chester Copperpot

Boy this reminds me of my old Atari 8-Bit days when I ran a BBS,..... What fun... lol


Still have access to the hardware and software too.

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## Cap

I remember those days, there was something mysterious about them. For even just the nostalgic reasons, I would love to see one up and running again and of course thriving. Good idea.

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## UtahApocalypse

Speaking of Hams here is a project our group is working on.....

http://hsmm-mesh.org

We are building a full featured server with restricted access, it will have internal email, web, forums, VoIP, video streaming, and anything that can be done over internet.

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## VIDEODROME

This could be a possibility.  It actually has more features for the web to.  

www.citadel.org/

Actually, just at a glance Citadel looks like a handy communication tool in general.

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## Matt Collins

I remember when HotLine came about (huge warez community) but it was mostly killed off by Napster. Hotline was kind of a cross of BBS and FTP except it had a GUI over Windows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotline_Communications



But I also remember the old dial-up BBS days. That was a ton of fun, I used to do that as a kid hitting up every BBS in town. I would send e-mails via FIDONet that would take 7 days to reach across town heh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet

And then came Prodigy/AOL to kill it, with me eventually convincing my parents to give me a cable modem for my birthday when I was 16.

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## Matthew5

Don't have anything tech related to add, but this takes me back. I'll never forget what a day it was when we all gathered round and logged in for the first time. Someone from the UK replied to a message my dad had sent and it freaked him out. He turned to all of us and said, "kids, you watch, this is going to change the world. People across the globe will be able to communicate electronically within minutes." Those were the days...

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## torchbearer

> Terminal based, so no browser.  Accessing the terminal may be outside of the capabilities of some people.  It's easy to get to on all POSIX systems like Unix, BDS, Linux, Mac OS, but IIRC you have to enable it in Windows 7 with the installer?
> 
> I dunno, anyone running Win7 that has NOT enabled the terminal (not the command prompt) do you know how to get to it?
> 
> Apparently the Telnet Client is turned off by default starting in Win7, but you can enable it.
> 
> enable Telnet by following these steps:
> 
> Click StartControl PanelPrograms And FeaturesTurn Windows features on or offCheck Telnet ClientHit OK 
> ...


I have a portable version of putty.
runs from windows 7 live boot usb.

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## GunnyFreedom

> I have a portable version of putty.
> runs from windows 7 live boot usb.


That's a good way to do it.  SSH is better than Telnet.

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## torchbearer

> That's a good way to do it.  SSH is better than Telnet.


there are several government systems that use telnet/ssh.
i use it to diagnose communication problems.
some banks still use it. you can actually remote into banking teller systems with telnet.

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## torchbearer

the portable version doesn't keep any trace of what you've done either.
here's your portable putty: http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/putty_portable

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## Anti Federalist

Oh wow, is *this* bringing back memories...

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## VIDEODROME

Yeah my ultimate goal would be to get something together using SSH.  

I have dusted off a few oldies like MysticBBS and Citadel, but not surprisingly the support history has been erratic, and some of the commands seem different for installing it.  I also have to contend with a college schedule that is becoming a pain.  

If I can just pin down a good guide somewhere it seems like this should be do-able though.

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## Hermes II SysOp

Dear friends,

I just discovered this website yesterday while Googling. I am so happy to discover a discussion called "Making an old 90s style BBS?", because I have *REALLY* felt like a fish out of water lately.

Let me tell you why.

I have just spent a few days scouring the web, looking for Macintosh-based and Macintosh-oriented, telnet-accessible BBSes.

In fact, yesterday, I downloaded and looked through the March 2015 edition of The BBS Corner's "The Telnet & Dial-Up BBS Guide". Sadly, out of a list of some 358 known telnet-accessible BBSes, not one single one of them met the aforementioned criteria. In other words, I did not find a single true Macintosh BBS anywhere. Seriously.

Boy, are we a dying breed or what? Not to boast, but it seems like I may possibly be the only Macintosh SysOp left!

A bit of history . . .

I have been running my Macintosh-based BBS on and off since early 1994. Well, guess what? About two weeks ago, I put my BBS back online again, after struggling with setting up both the SheepShaver and Basilisk emulators under Yosemite. I now have both emulators installed, and my Hermes II BBS is once again available for anyone who may be interested.

In fact, just a few days ago I compiled the latest Hermes II source code -- 3.5.11 -- from the GitHub website, and I dare say that I am now the only one who is running Hermes II 3.5.11. It was a challenge to compile it, until I received help from Michael Alyn Miller, who is the current owner of Hermes II, and its most recent developer.

Anyway, if you are interested in the history of my BBS, please visit the official home page of the Armageddon BBS on the web.

If you would like to learn how to compile the latest version of Hermes II yourself, using SheepShaver under Yosemite, I can help you do that as well.

Finally, if you actually want to telnet to my BBS, then in the Mac OS X Terminal, just telnet to 202.128.4.177.

Welcome to a blast from the past!  That is my static IP address.

It would certain be great if there were more Macintosh SysOps around. Let's not let this ancient tech go quietly into the night without a fight.

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## FunkBuddha

How did I miss this thread? I've been dinking around with Synchronet for years. I used to run Renegade back in the day. Any luck with this VideoDrome?

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## Matt Collins

.....

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## Hermes II SysOp

If you folks are on a Macintosh, or know how to run a Macintosh emulator, Hermes II -- the BBS software that I am using -- works just fine. I have the PDF docs for 3.5.2 on my BBS, as well as on my Hotline server. They are now a little outdated, but they will easily get you up and started running a Hermes II BBS. And, if you are running the Mac Classic environment on an OS X machine, I can help you with that as well, because that is what I am doing. The Hermes II software only runs in the Mac Classic environment.

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## Matt Collins



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## Hermes II SysOp

Here is the URL for my Armageddon BBS home page: http://www.armageddonbbs.com

And here is the URL for learning how to compile the latest version of Hermes II -- 3.5.11 -- in Mac OS X using the SheepShaver emulator with a very old copy of THINK Pascal. Hermes II is written in Pascal:

http://www.armageddonbbs.com/hermes-...ion-guide.html

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## FunkBuddha

> Yeah my ultimate goal would be to get something together using SSH.  
> 
> I have dusted off a few oldies like MysticBBS and Citadel, but not surprisingly the support history has been erratic, and some of the commands seem different for installing it.  I also have to contend with a college schedule that is becoming a pain.  
> 
> If I can just pin down a good guide somewhere it seems like this should be do-able though.


MysticBBS documentation was poor if I remember correctly and no SSH. Synchronet pissed me off because the user editor show the password in plain text. Citadel looked cool but I didn't much care for the format. The OpenTelegard project appears dead. I'm not interested in running a Mac BBS because I'm an Apple hater.

What would be killer would be SynchroNet with RADIUS authentication system. I wouldn't think it would be hard to do but I lack the C++ skills. I've made several attempts at trying to figure out how to hook into the auth mechanism but failed miserable every time. 

Too bad SSH over ToR blows or you could do some really awesome $#@! linking BBSes together. I've done some experimenting with a setup that would allow you to build out a huge BBS network in a Harsh Mistress style cell-based system over ToR but I can't get past the SSH problem. The latency makes it unbearable.

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## Hermes II SysOp

Why are you an Apple hater, if I may ask? I think the Windows vs. Macintosh debate was beaten into the  ground years ago. To each his own. Most of my friends use Windows. That's fine by me. Whatever works for each person, and whatever is their comfort zone. Saying you won't run a Macintosh-based BBS because you hate Apple is your choice, but . . .

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## Weston White

There is also BartPE, a core Windows OS shell: http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/intro/ (And WINE: https://www.winehq.org/)

A helpful overview and guide: http://www.telnetbbsguide.com/

Other BBS related info and software:

http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/cg...le.php/3470121

Wildcat BBS
Synchronet BBS
The Major BBS

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## FunkBuddha

> Why are you an Apple hater, if I may ask? I think the Windows vs. Macintosh debate was beaten into the  ground years ago. To each his own. Most of my friends use Windows. That's fine by me. Whatever works for each person, and whatever is their comfort zone. Saying you won't run a Macintosh-based BBS because you hate Apple is your choice, but . . .


Among other reasons, Apple's Bernaysian propaganda insults my intelligence. Debating the issue serves neither my time nor interest.

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## Hermes II SysOp

> Among other reasons, Apple's Bernaysian propaganda insults my intelligence. Debating the issue serves neither my time nor interest.


But Steve Jobs was a Buddhist! So no kindred spirit there?

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## heavenlyboy34

Wow...old-fasioned BBS...   Haven't used one since I was 11-ish, and that was just for PC game add-ons, shareware, etc.  Blast from teh past!

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## Hermes II SysOp

So, heavenlyboy34, why don't you come and check out my BBS and enjoy a blast into the past with all of the garish PC-ANSI graphics? It is Macintosh-based, and not Windows-based, but you can still reminisce. Please leave a message or two in the conferences so that I know that you stopped by. Thanks!

telnet armageddonbbs.com  or  202.128.4.177.

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## Hermes II SysOp

The Macintosh-based Armageddon BBS -- a true -PC-ANSI BBS running on Hermes II -- is still operating, as is the Armageddon RETRO Server, which is a Hotline server, and likewise Mac-centric. Here are the details for any Old School folks who may still be interested in such things, and for younger folks who may be interested in experiencing a bit of Macintosh computer history:

Armageddon BBS website: http://www.armageddonbbs.com

Telnet to Armageddon BBS at any of these:

202.128.4.177

bbs.armageddonbbs.com

armageddonbbs.com

Use the standard telnet port 23

Armageddon RETRO Server (Hotline server) - 202.128.4.177

Use the default Hotline port of 5500.

Do not enter a login name or password in the "Connect" window. Just enter the above IP address in the "Server" field.

If you need a Hotline client, there are links for the same for Mac Classic users, Mac OS X Intel users, and Windows users on the bottom of all pages of the Armageddon BBS website.

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## ChristianAnarchist

Haven't a clue what it takes to set one up but it sure brings back old memories...  I might have to see if I can remember how to use telnet...

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## angelatc

> Armageddon BBS website: http://www.armageddonbbs.com


 This redirects to http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/ .  Are we being spammed?

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## brushfire

I knew one day I'd regret selling my c64    I used to play a lot on BBS - was in trouble for high phone bills quite a few times.  Bit nibblers and bit exchanges LOL.  The good ol days.

On the topic of security, today, there is much less fax and dial up activity.   I think the handshake and phone activity would make your board stand out like a sore thumb.   It would also make it easier to identify end points.   Not to mention, the government has a stranglehold on all CO activity.   With the exception of voip, the phone system is very effectively monitored.

Not saying this isnt a fun idea, just saying its probably not a good counter to surveillance.   Especially with TOR.

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## Hermes II SysOp

> This redirects to http://www.endtimeprophecy.net/ .  Are we being spammed?


Angelatc, while I also own endtimeprophecy.net, ww.armageddonbbs.com does not, and should not, redirect to that domain. The URL I provided is in fact the Armageddon BBS website, and everything on it is about BBSing, as well as the Hotline community.

The only situation I can think of where you might possibly get a endtimeprophecy.net page, is if you incorrectly type in one of the URLs for the www.armageddonbbs.com website. In such a case, you would receive an error page -- I assume a 404 -- from the endtimeprophecy.net web server.

So, no, you are not being spammed or tricked. I suspect that it was just human error on your part.

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## Hermes II SysOp

> On the topic of security, today, there is much less fax and dial up activity.   I think the handshake and phone activity would make your board stand out like a sore thumb.   It would also make it easier to identify end points.   Not to mention, the government has a stranglehold on all CO activity.   With the exception of voip, the phone system is very effectively monitored.
> 
> Not saying this isnt a fun idea, just saying its probably not a good counter to surveillance.   Especially with TOR.


Brushfire, unless one is doing something illegal on his or her BBS -- which I personally am not -- what is there to fear from the government?

And before you ask, no, I don't trust the government either.

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## VIDEODROME

I got a version of it installed, but I wasn't sure how best to get it online.  No, I didn't want to tie up a phone line with it, the idea was to accept SSH connections if that was possible and it would have been on a regular webhost.

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## brushfire

> Brushfire, unless one is doing something illegal on his or her BBS -- which I personally am not -- what is there to fear from the government?
> 
> And before you ask, no, I don't trust the government either.



I get it...  You must be a facebooker    Only criminals and terrorists need privacy, keys, or passwords.   Sadly, my government has labeled me a terrorist.

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## Hermes II SysOp

> I get it...  You must be a facebooker    Only criminals and terrorists need privacy, keys, or passwords.   Sadly, my government has labeled me a terrorist.


Sir, I never said that, so please do not put words in my mouth. I in fact believe very strongly in personal privacy and in maintaining a set of strong passwords, as should any Internet user.

At any rate, I am not going to allow myself to be dragged into a discussion/debate regarding this issue, as I do not believe that is what this particular thread is about. It is about BBSing, as far as I can tell.

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## angelatc

> Angelatc, while I also own endtimeprophecy.net, ww.armageddonbbs.com does not, and should not, redirect to that domain. The URL I provided is in fact the Armageddon BBS website, and everything on it is about BBSing, as well as the Hotline community.
> 
> The only situation I can think of where you might possibly get a endtimeprophecy.net page, is if you incorrectly type in one of the URLs for the www.armageddonbbs.com website. In such a case, you would receive an error page -- I assume a 404 -- from the endtimeprophecy.net web server.
> 
> So, no, you are not being spammed or tricked. I suspect that it was just human error on your part.


Yeah, probably!  I am getting the BBS page now! thanks!

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## brushfire

> Sir, I never said that, so please do not put words in my mouth. I in fact believe very strongly in personal privacy and in maintaining a set of strong passwords, as should any Internet user.
> 
> At any rate, I am not going to allow myself to be dragged into a discussion/debate regarding this issue, as I do not believe that is what this particular thread is about. It is about BBSing, as far as I can tell.


Pardon me, no need to be defensive.  I've read your post again and I'm not sure where I put words in your mouth.   I was just responding to your point about having nothing to hide as you were not doing anything illegal, and how "illegal" might be a relative term in the eyes of the government.   If you visit Ron Paul Forums, you might be a terrorist <best_jeff_foxworthy_voice>

I reread the original post and I see your point about it being purely about BBS.   I'll move along

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