# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Skittles + Arizona Watermelon juice + Robitussin = purple drank recipe

## Wren

//

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## squarepusher

good to know

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## tangent4ronpaul

What??? - u mean this combo doesn't get u off???

-t

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## Wren

//

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## CPUd



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## Dr.3D

Why is the name in the past tense?   Shouldn't it be Purple Drink?

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## FrankRep

> Why is the name in the past tense?   Shouldn't it be Purple Drink?


Welcome to Ebonics.

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## TheTexan

sounds yummy,  i've heard its a drink to die for

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## Dr.3D

> sounds yummy,  i've heard its a drink to die for


Ehhhh.... isn't that,  It's a drank to die for?

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## krugminator

I don't understand why no one talks about this. He even talks about doing this crap on his Facebook page.  Why does no one care that this kid was a druggie?  He's been suspended from school for stealing and doing drugs.

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## TheTexan

> I don't understand why no one talks about this. He even talks about doing this crap on his Facebook page.  Why does no one care that this kid was a druggie?  He's been suspended from school for stealing and doing drugs.


skittles & iced tea & and hopping and skipping on the way home, makes for much better story than some druggie getting shot on the way back from the gas station

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## MelissaWV

> I don't understand why no one talks about this. He even talks about doing this crap on his Facebook page.  Why does no one care that this kid was a druggie?  He's been suspended from school for stealing and doing drugs.


Because it doesn't matter if you get lucky and shoot someone who happened to have a warrant, or was a druggie, or just killed his own mom.  You aren't aware of that when you do it.  What matters are the actual facts of the case which, luckily for George Zimmerman, appear not to rise to the level of evidence required to prove the charges levied against him.

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## liveandletlive

How was he a druggie? Many kids experiment with drugs and alcohol. It doesn't make them lifelong druggies and alcoholics. The lack of empathy here is appalling.

No doubt in my mind, had Trayvon been some white suburban pothead kid, the same critics wouldn't be so harsh with their words in bashing a dead human being.

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## TheTexan

> How was he a druggie? Many kids experiment with drugs and alcohol. It doesn't make them lifelong druggies and alcoholics. The lack of empathy here is appalling.
> 
> No doubt in my mind, had Trayvon been some white suburban pothead kid, the same critics wouldn't be so harsh with their words in bashing a dead human being.


Had trayvon been a white suburban pothead kid, every single one of his flaws would have been highlighted in the media, his drug use, his misbehavior in school, etc.

The media just so desperately wants Trayvon to NOT match the stereotype of the urban black drug using thug wannabe... but he does.

And all of that, I really don't give a $#@! about.  I don't care if he did drugs.  I don't care that he talks like a thug retard.  All I care about is whether or not TM attacked GZ, and since TM is not on trial here, we won't ever know.




> Because it doesn't matter if you get lucky and shoot someone who happened to have a warrant, or was a druggie, or just killed his own mom. You aren't aware of that when you do it. What matters are the actual facts of the case which, luckily for George Zimmerman, appear not to rise to the level of evidence required to prove the charges levied against him.


Yes, but that's definitely not the reason the media dodges the subject...

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## Antischism

Why does this matter again?

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## MelissaWV

> Yes, but that's definitely not the reason the media dodges the subject...


To be sure, but on RPFs you would hope that it would be the reason people would not try to bring it up as something to be used against him and to give GZ a pat on the back.

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## TheTexan

> Why does this matter again?


For one, it reveals the media for the liars that they are (of course we already knew that though)

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## matt0611

This after anything to do with grape drink?

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## juleswin

> Why is the name in the past tense?   Shouldn't it be Purple Drink?


Its just the name. Probably the same reason why baseball commentators say "flied out" when the ball flies into the outfield.

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## specsaregood

> Many kids experiment with drugs and alcohol. It doesn't make them lifelong druggies and alcoholics.


True enough; but in this instance, Martin did end up a lifelong druggie.

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## Luciconsort

real Drank, of Syrup, or Oil, or Lean, or whatever you wanna call it. is made by mixing cough syrup that has codeine or hydrocodone or oxycodone with a  mixer. Sprite and Dr. Pepper work best imo. then you just sip and it's off to the races.

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## MelissaWV

> real Drank, of Syrup, or Oil, or Lean, or whatever you wanna call it. is made by mixing cough syrup that has codeine or hydrocodone or oxycodone with a  mixer. Sprite and Dr. Pepper work best imo. then you just sip and it's off to the races.


You are obviously a black hoodlum.

(Sorry.  Having met you in person, I can't help but giggle as I type that.)

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## Wooden Indian

I couldn't care less if he was snortin coke off of hooker's backsides. All this nonsense is because 2 men made poor decisions.
Has nothing to do with drugs or gold teefers... as stupid as they are.

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## pcosmar

Monkey Tom drank MD20-20 and Tequila In a big coolie cup.  SO what?
I have several pieces of his artwork.

http://www.monkeytom.org/

I know because I have both filled it and drank from it.

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## kcchiefs6465

> For one, it reveals the media for the liars that they are (of course we already knew that though)


How do you know what he was doing with the Skittles and Arizona Ice Tea?

I buy candy (whether that be Skittles, Starbursts, or Jollyranchers) with an Arizona Ice Tea, yes the Watermelon, it's the best kind, and I have no intentions of making some ghetto shop brew of "purple drank."

Maybe he did buy it for that reason. Maybe he just bought it because he was thirsty and wanted some candy. I fail to see how the OP was aware of this teen's intentions.

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## TheTexan

> How do you know what he was doing with the Skittles and Arizona Ice Tea?
> 
> I buy candy (whether that be Skittles, Starbursts, or Jollyranchers) with an Arizona Ice Tea, yes the Watermelon, it's the best kind, and I have no intentions of making some ghetto shop brew of "purple drank."
> 
> Maybe he did buy it for that reason. Maybe he just bought it because he was thirsty and wanted some candy. I fail to see how the OP was aware of this teen's intentions.


Maybe, maybe not.  But his facebook posts (reason #78894 not to use facebook) do suggest you are incorrect

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## kcchiefs6465

> Maybe, maybe not.  But his facebook posts (reason #78894 not to use facebook) do suggest you are incorrect


Rappers constantly talk about sipping lean. (actual Promethazine and codeine, not the ghetto concoction kids are drinking when trying to emulate) I haven't read his Facebook posts but yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. I also wouldn't doubt some teens post stupid things claiming they are high or drunk or whatever when they aren't. People are funny. He probably thought he was cool to say that. Or it could have been lyrics to any of the hundreds of songs talking about sipping lean. I don't know. I am not going to assume he was using two harmless items, that I have bought myself on occasion, to get high with.

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## krugminator

> Rappers constantly talk about sipping lean. (actual Promethazine and codeine, not the ghetto concoction kids are drinking when trying to emulate) I haven't read his Facebook posts but yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. I also wouldn't doubt some teens post stupid things claiming they are high or drunk or whatever when they aren't. People are funny. He probably thought he was cool to say that. Or it could have been lyrics to any of the hundreds of songs talking about sipping lean. I don't know. I am not going to assume he was using two harmless items, that I have bought myself on occasion, to get high with.



Being suspended from school multiple times from drug possession, bragging about doing drugs on Facebook, and possessing two out of the three ingredients fora  drug that he bragged about doing, raises reasonable suspicion.

Zimmerman used poor judgment. A jury could conceivably find him guilty of something. Though it is most certain that Trayvon Martin was bad news and I think beyond a reasonable doubt played a major role in his own death.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Being suspended from school multiple times from drug possession, bragging about doing drugs on Facebook, and possessing two out of the three ingredients fora  drug that he bragged about doing, raises reasonable suspicion.
> 
> Zimmerman used poor judgment. A jury could conceivably find him guilty of something. Though it is most certain that Trayvon Martin was bad news and I think beyond a reasonable doubt played a major role in his own death.


Well just to be clear though, the two items he possessed were not the drug. I've never heard of anyone mixing cough medicine with Arizona Ice Tea. As someone said, it is usually Sprite they mix it with and I've never heard of anyone mixing cough medicine with Skittles. It is usually Jolly Ranchers they'll add. That raises doubt in my mind that perhaps he just bought the two items because he wanted them. I'm sure somewhere though people do mix the cough medicine with whatever liquid they can find to kill the taste and whatever candy to sweeten it. Maybe that's what's in now? Skittles and AIT with Robotussin.

Both made stupid choices yes. At most Zimmerman should be convicted of a negligible manslaughter. Second degree murder is clearly an overcharge. (based on the fact that Martin went home and came back)

People think doing drugs is cool. When I was in school, people would put on acts all the time. Messages on their Facebook about this party or that and all the weed they smoke. They weren't doing half of what they were saying. Maybe TM did drink _kidney failure from a cup_. It's the "in" thing. Rappers drink it by the pint. (a few have died, actually) Kids will be dumbasses on occasion. Smoking weed or drinking a little cough syrup means nothing to me. It doesn't make you violent and why it was even brought up I'll never know. At least he wasn't choking himself or some other insanity. (huffing gasoline or whatever)

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## MelissaWV

So you're saying he utterly forgot the Tussin --- the main ingredient that makes this a "drug" at all?  Weird.

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## cajuncocoa

> Why does this matter again?


Wondering why it took 15 posts to ask this question.

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## FrankRep



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## amy31416

> 


Pretty $#@!ing crass--he's a dead kid that was almost an adult who may or may not have had a drug problem. He's dead, no need to mock him.

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## FrankRep

> Pretty $#@!ing crass--he's a dead kid that was almost an adult who may or may not have had a drug problem. He's dead, no need to mock him.




*What the Media Choose Not to Know about Trayvon*


American Thinker
June 7, 2012


Trayvon, with his hoodie up, grabs two items from the shelves of 7-11.  One is the Skittles.  The other is Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail.  The media avoid the name of the real drink -- possibly because of the racial implications of the word "watermelon," but possibly to avoid probing the real reason for Trayon's trip.

Trayvon, in fact, had become a devotee of the druggy concoction known as "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "*Purple Drank*."  Lean consists of three basic ingredients -- codeine, a soft drink, and candy.  If his Facebook postings are to be believed, Trayvon had been using Lean since at least June 2011.  

On June 27, 2011, Trayvon asks a friend online, "unow a connect for codien?"  He tells the friend that "robitussin nd soda" could make "some fire ass lean."  He says, "I had it before" and that he wants "to make some more."  On the night of February 26, if Brandy had some Robitussin at home, Trayvon had just bought the mixings for one "fire ass lean" cocktail.

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## pcosmar

> What the Media Choose Not to Know about Trayvon


What is completely irrelevant to the case?

Another example of "blame the victim".

If Zimmerman was not playing Cop,, and stalking and harassing the kid there would have been NO confrontation.
He should have stayed in his truck and minded his own business.,, but no.. he went out of his way to pursue and confront the kid.

This was not what "Stand your Ground" was about,, and Zimmerman is making a mockery of it,, and handing opponents ammunition.

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## FrankRep

> What is completely irrelevant to the case?
> 
> Another example of "blame the victim".
> 
> If Zimmerman was not playing Cop,, and stalking and harassing the kid there would have been NO confrontation.
> He should have stayed in his truck and minded his own business.,, but no.. he went out of his way to pursue and confront the kid.
> 
> This was not what "Stand your Ground" was about,, and Zimmerman is making a mockery of it,, and handing opponents ammunition.


Not a fan of self-defense?

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## kcchiefs6465

> Trayvon, in fact, had become a devotee of the druggy concoction known as "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "*Purple Drank*."  Lean consists of three basic ingredients -- codeine, a soft drink, and candy.  If his Facebook postings are to be believed, Trayvon had been using Lean since at least June 2011.


Lmao. A devotee huh? The 'three basic ingredients' left out the most important one- Promethazine. It appears they aren't so basic.




> On June 27, 2011, Trayvon asks a friend online, "unow a connect for codien?"  He tells the friend that "robitussin nd soda" could make "some fire ass lean."  He says,* "I had it before"* and that he wants "to make some more."  On the night of February 26, if Brandy had some Robitussin at home, Trayvon had just bought the mixings for one "fire ass lean" cocktail.


Lmao. You have a kid acting hard online. "I had it before".... lmao. "unow a connect..." GTFOH. This is what I was referring to a few pages ago. Are you kidding me? That is not even to mention he said "robitussion nd soda." Not Arizona Ice Tea. Carbonated is preferred. Ask anyone who actually drinks the bull$#@!, they aren't mixing it with juice. Ask anyone who actually drinks it, they aren't drinking Robitussin. Some kid talking $#@! on the internet. What a shocking tale.

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## Ender

> Being suspended from school multiple times from drug possession, bragging about doing drugs on Facebook, and possessing two out of the three ingredients fora  drug that he bragged about doing, raises reasonable suspicion.
> 
> Zimmerman used poor judgment. A jury could conceivably find him guilty of something. Though it is most certain that Trayvon Martin was bad news and I think beyond a reasonable doubt played a major role in his own death.


*Trayvon was NOT suspended multiple times for drugs. He was suspended 3 times:* 
-Tardiness
-Graffiti (writing WTF)
-A baggy with supposed marijuana traces.

Zimmerman had a record of violence and numerous amounts of 911 calls- no one likes to talk about those details.

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## TheTexan

> If Zimmerman was not playing Cop,, and stalking and harassing the kid there would have been NO confrontation.
> He should have stayed in his truck and minded his own business.,, but no.. he went out of his way to pursue and confront the kid.


According to Zimmerman's testimony he didn't go out of his way to pursue him, at least not on foot.  And he also says that TM is the one who started the confrontation.

Secondly, as for "If Zimmerman was not playing Cop"... I don't see any problems with a neighborhood policing itself...

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## pcosmar

> Not a fan of self-defense?


I am. I believe the kid attempted to defend himself against an armed stalker and lost.

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## Ender

> What is completely irrelevant to the case?
> 
> Another example of "blame the victim".
> 
> If Zimmerman was not playing Cop,, and stalking and harassing the kid there would have been NO confrontation.
> He should have stayed in his truck and minded his own business.,, but no.. he went out of his way to pursue and confront the kid.
> 
> This was not what "Stand your Ground" was about,, and Zimmerman is making a mockery of it,, and handing opponents ammunition.


I have been saying this since Day One of this whole blinkin' mess.

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## Dr.3D

> According to Zimmerman's testimony he didn't go out of his way to pursue him, at least not on foot.  And he also says the TM is the one who started the confrontation.
> 
> Secondly, as for "If Zimmerman was not playing Cop"... *I don't see any problems with a neighborhood policing itself*...


That's what I thought we wanted people to do.   That way we wouldn't really need police going around harassing people.

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## FrankRep

> Ask anyone who actually drinks the bull$#@!, they aren't mixing it with juice. Ask anyone who actually drinks it, they aren't drinking Robitussin. Some kid talking $#@! on the internet. What a shocking tale.


Purple drank started right here in my City. H-Town. Houston, Texas.


*Purple drank* is a slang term for a recreational drug *popular* in the hip hop community in the southern United States, originating in Houston, Texas. Its main ingredient is prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine. Cough syrup is typically mixed with ingredients such as Sprite soft drink or Mountain Dew and pieces of Jolly Rancher candy. The purplish hue of purple drank comes from dyes in the cough syrup.


*History*

Houston, Texas producer DJ Screw popularized the concoction, which is widely attributed as a source of inspiration for the "chopped and screwed" style of hip hop music. Originally, the active ingredient of "syrup" was cough syrup containing promethazine and codeine. The concoction first gained popularity in the underground rap scene in Houston,[11] where musician Big Hawk said it was consumed as early as the 1960s and 1970s, becoming more widespread in the early 1990s. Its use later spread to other southern states. Because of usage by rap artists in Houston, it became more popular in the 1990s.

In June 2000, Three 6 Mafia's single "Sippin' on Some Syrup," featuring UGK, brought the term "purple drank" to a nationwide audience. Three 6 Mafia's single "Rainbow Colors" featuring Lil' Flip pertains to the consumption of purple drank; the addition of a Jolly Rancher candy to a cup of purple drank creates a spectrum of colors, hence the name.

In 2004, the University of Texas found that 8.3% of secondary school students in Texas had taken codeine syrup to get high. The Drug Enforcement Administration reports "busts" involving syrup across the southern United States, particularly in Texas and Florida.

As of 2011, the price of purple drank in Houston is twice the price in Los Angeles.

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## Ender

> According to Zimmerman's testimony he didn't go out of his way to pursue him, at least not on foot.  And he also says that TM is the one who started the confrontation.
> 
> Secondly, as for "If Zimmerman was not playing Cop"... I don't see any problems with a neighborhood policing itself...


Then Zimmerman should have stuck to the RULES of Neighborhood Watch that he had been taught.

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## FrankRep

> Then Zimmerman should have stuck to the RULES of Neighborhood Watch that he had been taught.


When someone is bashing your head into the concrete, I think you should be allowed to shoot them out of self-defense.

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## TheTexan

> Then Zimmerman should have stuck to the RULES of Neighborhood Watch that he had been taught.


You're implying he should have called the police, and let them handle it?  I couldn't disagree more.  Zimmerman, as a citizen of that community, is in a much better position to protect his family and his community, than some dickbag with a badge and legal immunity who's only imperative is to enforce laws (his imperative is definitely not to serve and protect).

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## amy31416

> *What the Media Choose Not to Know about Trayvon*
> 
> 
> American Thinker
> June 7, 2012
> 
> 
> Trayvon, with his hoodie up, grabs two items from the shelves of 7-11.  One is the Skittles.  The other is Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail.  The media avoid the name of the real drink -- possibly because of the racial implications of the word "watermelon," but possibly to avoid probing the real reason for Trayon's trip.
> 
> ...


Yeah. He was a human being who was experimenting with or using drugs and he made some bad decisions, just as Zimmerman did. I'm trying to think of one of my friends from high school and college who didn't experiment and I can come up with 2...out of over 100 people?

All of them deserve to die?

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## pcosmar

> According to Zimmerman's testimony he didn't go out of his way to pursue him, at least not on foot.  And he also says that TM is the one who started the confrontation.
> 
> Secondly, as for "If Zimmerman was not playing Cop"... I don't see any problems with a neighborhood policing itself...


 According to the police dispatcher,,(unless the story has changed,,I haven't kept up) he  was told to stay in his truck and leave him alone.
At some point he got out of the truck and confronted him. The kid did not drag him from his vehicle.
The kid made a call about some freak stalking him. he was trying to avoid him.

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## FrankRep

> According to the police dispatcher,,(unless the story has changed,,I haven't kept up) he  was told to stay in his truck and leave him alone.
> At some point he got out of the truck and confronted him. The kid did not drag him from his vehicle.
> The kid made a call about some freak stalking him. he was trying to avoid him.


It's not illegal to get out of your truck. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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## Ender

> When someone is bashing your head into the concrete, I think you should be allowed to shoot them out of self-defense.


No one would have been bashing his head in, if he had stuck to the rules: Watch & Report. Nothing more.

Also- we do not know about who attacked who or what really happened except from Zimmerman's mouth. Since he lied to the judge earlier, maybe his words should be taken with a grain of salt?

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## pcosmar

> You're implying he should have called the police, and let them handle it?  I couldn't disagree more.  Zimmerman, as a citizen of that community, is in a much better position to protect his family and his community, than some dickbag with a badge and legal immunity who's only imperative is to enforce laws.


And the kid had every right to go from the store to his residence,, or for a walk around the neighborhood without being accosted.

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## Ender

> You're implying he should have called the police, and let them handle it?  I couldn't disagree more.  Zimmerman, as a citizen of that community, is in a much better position to protect his family and his community, than some dickbag with a badge and legal immunity who's only imperative is to enforce laws (his imperative is definitely not to serve and protect).


Zimmerman was the cop-lover. HE was the one who called them. HE was the who wanted the NW. HE was the one who was supposed to follow the specific rules that HE asked for.

Maybe you should read your sig line a bit more.

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## TheTexan

> According to the police dispatcher,,(unless the story has changed,,I haven't kept up) he  was told to stay in his truck and leave him alone.
> At some point he got out of the truck and confronted him. The kid did not drag him from his vehicle.
> The kid made a call about some freak stalking him. he was trying to avoid him.


According to GZ's testimony,

Police dispatcher asked for an address so they knew where to go
Zimmerman wasn't familiar with the street he was on, got out of his truck to look for a street sign
He knew the street name of the street on the other side of the yards, went along the sidewalk in that direction to find a street # to give the police
Dispatcher asks, "are you following him?"  He says yes, but in his testimony the day after, he meant that he was "in the area", (incidentally following, not intentionally)
Dispatcher says, we don't need you to do that
GZ says OK, turns around back towards his truck, and tells them directions on how to get to his truck
GZ sees TM walking towards him
TM begins confrontation

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## FrankRep

> And the kid had every right to go from the store to his residence,, or for a walk around the neighborhood without being accosted.


*George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin attacked me*
http://fox59.com/2013/07/01/george-z...n-attacked-me/


Note to self: Don't attack the Neighborhood watch.

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## pcosmar

> It's not illegal to get out of your truck. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Come on,, you are not really that obtuse.
it is not self defense if you provoke a confrontation.
He was $#@!ing stalking the kid.

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## kcchiefs6465

> ...


People were drinking Promethazine + Codeine recreationally long before DJ Screw was around.

I'd doubt it originated in Houston and if it did, no one would be able to definitively say so. People around the country realized you felt a certain way after drinking it. People have been abusing it since soon after it's inception. DJ Screw's 'chopped and screwed' and usage is what made it popular. (his death, too) Soon after you had high profile rappers such as Lil Wayne, Beanie Sigel, Bun B and the rest _promoting_ its usage. (indirectly or directly)

TM said "I had it once".. Yeah, okay. Seems legit. Probably took some Benadryl and felt asleep. Put on a front because he thinks it is cool. (rap music tells him it's cool) A joke. Tragic that kids listen to the nonsense and try to emulate them.

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## Ender

> And the kid had every right to go from the store to his residence,, or for a walk around the neighborhood without being accosted.


_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to pcosmar again._

Wish I could rep ya!

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## TheTexan

> Zimmerman was the cop-lover. HE was the one who called them. HE was the who wanted the NW. HE was the one who was supposed to follow the specific rules that HE asked for.


Doesn't matter what he thinks, because we were discussing what you think, and I think.  YOU think he should have called the cops.  I disagree with you.

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## FrankRep

> Come on,, you are not really that obtuse.
> it is not self defense if you provoke a confrontation.
> He was $#@!ing stalking the kid.


Just giving the facts. 

*George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin attacked me*
http://fox59.com/2013/07/01/george-z...n-attacked-me/

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## krugminator

> According to the police dispatcher,,(unless the story has changed,,I haven't kept up) he  was told to stay in his truck and leave him alone.
> At some point he got out of the truck and confronted him. The kid did not drag him from his vehicle.
> The kid made a call about some freak stalking him. he was trying to avoid him.


That may be what happened. That version certainly isn't the story being told in the courtroom.

EDIT: Already see that you've been corrected.

The bottomline is I don't see how anyone can feel that great about Zimmerman, but he shouldn't be getting 2nd degree murder. And certainly no one should be enthusiastic about Martin. The guy was thug who almost certainly provoked this to a shooting.

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## TheTexan

> Come on,, you are not really that obtuse.
> it is not self defense if you provoke a confrontation.
> He was $#@!ing stalking the kid.


You know what's really, really, $#@!ing funny about this whole mess, is if GZ had not called the cops (or had the institution not existed), there is a chance he would not have even got out of his vehicle.

He got out of his vehicle to find an address to give to the cops.

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## BlackTerrel

> Just so you know. The innocent "skittles and ice tea" meme from the media horde is a farce. The kid was a wannabe punk and he died like one. What's more despicable is the exploitation by the parents. Trademarking your dead sons name to make a profit is easier than a handout. 
> 
> http://thekansascitian.blogspot.com/...ayvon.html?m=1


Drinking purple drank makes you a punk?  Yeah and smoking weed means you should be gunned down too 

And this is a libertarian site 




> I planned on forever ignoring this trial because of its stupidity. Until i caught a quick glimpse at it and why it was garnering so much attention. After looking at the evidence not shown by the media, its clear that this case is a bigger f***king deal than I imagined. Look at what they've done to George Zimmerman. *He is not even white, and if he was, why would it matter if he's not racist? He actions were justified by the police and local judge under florida law until word got out nationally.* The politically and racially motivated mob pressured the courts to charge him with second degree murder, and they did. If this man is not found innocent, then this country's judicial system is meaningless. And if he IS found innocent, expect there to be riots by those with an agenda coupled with an uneducated mass of buffoons.


I call bull$#@!.  If races were reversed and if he wasn't buddy buddy with the cops he would have been arrested on the spot.

Seriously.  You're telling me I shoot an unarmed white guy and not roughed up/arrested?  Really?  What kind of world do you live in?

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## FrankRep

> Drinking purple drank makes you a punk?  Yeah and smoking weed means you should be gunned down too 
> 
> And this is a libertarian site


Self-Defense is very libertarian.

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## pcosmar

> According to GZ's testimony,
> 
> Police dispatcher asked for an address so they knew where to go
> Zimmerman wasn't familiar with the street he was on, got out of his truck to look for a street sign


Wait a second.. He was neighborhood watch..

Protecting HIS neighborhood,


And he doesn't know what street he is on?

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## Ender

> Doesn't matter what he thinks, because we were discussing what you think, and I think.  YOU think he should have called the cops.  I disagree with you.


That's a crock. 

Zimmerman already called the cops.

I am telling you what Zimmerman wanted. He started the NW in his community; he was given specific instructions that he did not follow.

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## Ender

> Wait a second.. He was neighborhood watch..
> 
> Protecting HIS neighborhood,
> 
> 
> And he doesn't know what street he is on?


Yep.

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## BlackTerrel

> I don't understand why no one talks about this. He even talks about doing this crap on his Facebook page.  Why does no one care that this kid was a druggie?  He's been suspended from school for stealing and doing drugs.


Since when do libertarians not like people who do drugs?  Free country and all.

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## pcosmar

> Self-Defense is very libertarian.


IT WAS NOT SELF DEFENSE.

Hopefully the jury can see the difference. I have doubts,,but hopefully.

----------


## TheTexan

> Wait a second.. He was neighborhood watch..
> 
> Protecting HIS neighborhood,
> 
> 
> And he doesn't know what street he is on?


Some people aren't good with street names.  In places I have lived for years, I could not tell you the name of the street directly across from me, if my life depended on it.

I don't read street names.  Ever.  I just know where I'm at visually, (or where Ms. Google tells me where to go)

----------


## Ender

> That may be what happened. That version certainly isn't the story being told in the courtroom.
> 
> EDIT: Already see that you've been corrected.
> 
> The bottomline is I don't see how anyone can feel that great about Zimmerman, but he shouldn't be getting 2nd degree murder. And certainly no one should be enthusiastic about Martin. The guy was thug who almost certainly provoked this to a shooting.


I believe that Zimmerman should be convicted of Utter Stupidity and Ego Mania.

And there is NO evidence that Trayvon was a "thug".  A teenage kid? Yes.

----------


## TheTexan

> That's a crock. 
> 
> Zimmerman already called the cops.
> 
> I am telling you what Zimmerman wanted. He started the NW in his community; he was given specific instructions that he did not follow.


He did follow their directions, actually.  "We dont need you to do that", "Ok", and he headed back to his truck

----------


## FrankRep

> IT WAS NOT SELF DEFENSE.
> 
> Hopefully the jury can see the difference. I have doubts,,but hopefully.



*George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin attacked me*
http://fox59.com/2013/07/01/george-z...n-attacked-me/

----------


## Dr.3D

> *George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin attacked me*
> http://fox59.com/2013/07/01/george-z...n-attacked-me/


Yeah, but Frank, she shouldn't have dressed that way if she didn't want to be raped.

----------


## TheTexan

> IT WAS NOT SELF DEFENSE.
> 
> Hopefully the jury can see the difference. I have doubts,,but hopefully.


You're basing everything off speculation.  You're speculating that he's a liar.  You're speculating that he initiated the confrontation.  Speculation, speculation, speculation.

NO.  PROOF.

----------


## krugminator

> I believe that Zimmerman should be convicted of Utter Stupidity and Ego Mania.
> 
> *And there is NO evidence that Trayvon was a "thug".*  A teenage kid? Yes.


I like how you put the "NO" in caps. Except all the evidence that he was a thug. It isn't debatable.

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Had trayvon been a white suburban pothead kid, every single one of his flaws would have been highlighted in the media, his drug use, his misbehavior in school, etc.


Yeah and Zim would have been arrested on the spot.  Everyone knows this.  Since when do cops go out of their way to not arrest and/or beat the $#@! out of someone?

He killed an unarmed 17 year old and they let him walk.  You think this is SOP?




> The media just so desperately wants Trayvon to NOT match the stereotype of the urban black drug using thug wannabe... but he does.


There's a lot of no so subtle racism supporting this case.  On this forum and elsewhere.

He wasn't a saint but he did the same $#@! a ton of youth in this country do.  White and black and Hispanic kids.  Doesn't mean they deserve to be gunned down.

----------


## amy31416

> Yeah and Zim would have been arrested on the spot.  Everyone knows this.  Since when do cops go out of their way to not arrest and/or beat the $#@! out of someone?
> 
> He killed an unarmed 17 year old and they let him walk.  You think this is SOP?
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of no so subtle racism supporting this case.  On this forum and elsewhere.
> 
> He wasn't a saint but he did the same $#@! a ton of youth in this country do.  White and black and Hispanic kids.  Doesn't mean they deserve to be gunned down.


Yeah, but it's not that simple--he wasn't "gunned down."

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Since when do libertarians not like people who do drugs?  Free country and all.


What?

Because I support someone's self-ownership and their responsibility of their body doesn't mean I like people who do drugs. Or that I endorse drug usage.

Make another thread on the subject please or quit misrepresenting people.

----------


## BlackTerrel

> 


Hysterical.  17 year old dead kid.  Hysterical.

I'm sure the adult who spent time making that is a stand up guy.

----------


## pcosmar

> You're basing everything off speculation.  You're speculating that he's a liar.  You're speculating that he initiated the confrontation.  Speculation, speculation, speculation.
> 
> NO.  PROOF.


An Unarmed kid was shot to death by an armed man that was playing cop. (was a Cop Wannabe)

The kid was committing no crime until confronting a stalker. ( regardless of any past or potential future crimes he may or may not have committed)
Zimmerman was the one out LOOKING for trouble,,
That is not self defense.

----------


## TheTexan

> He wasn't a saint but he did the same $#@! a ton of youth in this country do.  White and black and Hispanic kids.  Doesn't mean they deserve to be gunned down.


I'm not saying he did deserve to get gunned down (at least not for those reasons).  I just find it interesting how the media chooses to ignore, what is usually a very popular subject for them.

----------


## pcosmar

> There's a lot of no so subtle racism supporting this case.


I would often disagree with you on that claim,, but not this time. I find it disturbing.

----------


## FrankRep

> I would often disagree with you on that claim,, but not this time. I find it disturbing.


How do we know you don't hate Zimmerman for being Hispanic?

----------


## TheTexan

> An Unarmed kid was shot to death by an armed man that was playing cop. (was a Cop Wannabe)


Would it have been better if it was a cop?

You often talk about how the institution shouldn't exist (and I agree).  How, exactly, do you think people would keep their neighborhoods safe?  By keeping your eyes open, and getting to know people, which I assume Zimmerman did, and he didn't recognize TM.  Ya, ya, he probably could have handled it better "Hey kid, how's it going, I haven't seen you around these parts", as opposed to, "yes, police dispatcher, I saw this strange individual acting weird, oh I see him, oh he's coming right at me!!".




> The kid was committing no crime until confronting a stalker.


Let's just accept that Zimmerman was stalking him.  Is walking up towards him and initiating a physical confrontation the right way to resolve that?  




> Zimmerman was the one out LOOKING for trouble,,


100% speculation.  He may have just been trying to keep his neighboorhood safe?

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Self-Defense is very libertarian.


So is having the freedom to drink whatever you want and not be shot for it.

----------


## FrankRep

> So is having the freedom to drink whatever you want and not be shot for it.


You don't have the right to bash someone's head into the concrete because you think they are stalking you, No.



*George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin attacked me*
http://fox59.com/2013/07/01/george-z...n-attacked-me/

----------


## BlackTerrel

> What?
> 
> Because I support someone's self-ownership and their responsibility of their body doesn't mean I like people who do drugs. Or that I endorse drug usage.
> 
> Make another thread on the subject please or quit misrepresenting people.


Not to you at all.

My point was that drinking purple drank is irrelevant towards whether he should have been shot or not.  He could have been doing meth and that also would not mean he deserved to be shot.

----------


## FrankRep

> My point was that drinking purple drank is irrelevant towards whether he should have been shot or not.


Bashing someone's head into the concrete might get you shot, however.

----------


## BlackTerrel

> How do we know you don't hate Zimmerman for being Hispanic?


pcosmar isn't using any racist code words or negative Hispanic stereotypes RE Zimmerman.  There are a lot of words being used on this thread to describe Tray that would likely not be used if it was a white pot smoker.

----------


## FrankRep

> pcosmar isn't using any racist code words or negative Hispanic stereotypes RE Zimmerman.  There are a lot of words being used on this thread to describe Tray that would likely not be used if it was a white pot smoker.


In this case, however, the only one who used a racist term was Trayvon Martin. He described Zimmerman as a "creepy-ass cracker."

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Don't know about you, but I don't give a damn what race he was. Since when do libertarians care about race? If Trayvon was white, he'd still be a punk. And if Zimmerman was black, then you could possibly moan about "what ifs", but that isn't the case here.


Libertarians don't, or shouldn't, but cops do.  

I've known people involved in shootings before, even people involved in non lethal shootings.  You know what consistently the cops do EVERY DAMN TIME???  They always always always arrest the shooter, sometimes they beat the crap out of them.... and then and only then do they let the guy tell his side of the story.  This is what always happens.

So when Zimmerman wasn't arrested on the spot I know, and everyone whose being honest with themselves knows that it was shady as $#@!.

This is why the story became such a big deal.  It was not "media manufactured" which I get it but is just a convenient excuse to blame everything on "the media" which is this large entity that everything can be pinned on.

No it was a grassroots issue spread through Churches and email and facebook and youtube and twitter basically saying why does this guy Zimmmerman get treated differently than every other situation we know and are familiar with.

This case was well known before the media even showed up.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> Welcome to Ebonics.


heyyy heyyy

----------


## MelissaWV

I just bought some cough syrup for my mom and Sprite for my dad and some orange juice for myself.  I belong to a forum that routinely talks about the benefits of drugs, and being high.

Damn I hope I don't get shot today.  This could go poorly.

----------


## torchbearer

> Why is the name in the past tense?   Shouldn't it be Purple Drink?


no, its purple drank.
Lean for short.
don't ask why. it doesn't have any logic to it.
a nice car is called a whip.
haven't figure that one out.
dressing nice is called flossing.
haven't figured out the connection between good dental hygiene and nice clothes.
Patois made more sense.

----------


## jmdrake

> I couldn't care less if he was snortin coke off of hooker's backsides. All this nonsense is because 2 men made poor decisions.
> Has nothing to do with drugs or gold teefers... as stupid as they are.


+rep!  I wouldn't have wanted to hang out with either idiot hothead.  Travon Martin may have been a wanna be thug, but George Zimmerman was a wanna-be jack-booted thug.  He would have been first in line to cart off those defending him here to a FEMA camp.

----------


## jmdrake

> He actions were justified by the police and local judge under florida law until word got out nationally.


Oh bull feces!  The police were initially going to charge him until his retired judge father intervened.  Once they found out Zimmerman was part of the "thin blue brotherhood" they went to bat for him like they would *not* have gone to bat for you under similar circumstances.  That doesn't excuse the circus on the other side, but this wasn't a case of Zimmerman being cleared immediately because of "the facts."

----------


## torchbearer

but the Robitussin bit was probably put in there because to say what is really in purple drank would be admitting to knowledge of felonious behavior.
in this region, the purple part of the 'drank', is a particular codeine syrup, that is mixed with something else that comes in a purple syrup.
lots of our local clinics have signs posted in waiting room that state, we do not prescribe "purple drank".
in fact, its harder for me to get a cough syrup because of these $#@!tards. in order to prevent the nurse practitioners from being put in ackward situations, the doctor has forbidden they write any such prescriptions. (so there won't be any accusations of racial discrimination)
kinda like the marriage license thing.

now, back to purple drank.
once you have the codeine syrup, everything else is optional.
around here, they use jolly ranchers/skittles- plus a sprite type drink.

so, a local recipe would look like this-
sour apple jolly rancher, sprite, and codeine syrup.

----------


## jmdrake

> You're implying he should have called the police, and let them handle it?  I couldn't disagree more.  Zimmerman, as a citizen of that community, is in a much better position to protect his family and his community, than some dickbag with a badge and legal immunity who's only imperative is to enforce laws (his imperative is definitely not to serve and protect).


Okay.  Let's look at *your* implication.  So if Zimmerman had been a cop and acted the exact same way then he would have been wrong and a "dickbag" just because he had a badge?  So as long as you are *not* a cop you can start randomly chasing people for no apparent reason other than you don't recognize them?   Forget for a moment whether what Zimmerman did was legal.  It was certainly *stupid*.  And he *did* call the cops....and they told him not to get out of his car.  (And yes, I've seen idiots all over the web split hairs over whether "We don't need you to do that." meant "Don't do that."  Any unbiased with half a brain knows it meant "don't do that.")  I'm all for neighborhood watch.  That said, getting out of your car and going up to someone *by yourself* that you don't know has committed a crime, but you *think* might be a criminal is *INCREDIBLY STUPID!*  Say if Trayvon really was a criminal and was packing?  Zimmerman would be dead now, no doubt about it.  And for what?  That's what kills me.  I here these "Say if Trayvon had just murdered someone" arguments on the web and talk radio.  Well what would punk-ass Zimmerman have done?  Gotten killed?  Gotten someone else killed?  He should have been patrolling in pairs.  The police know that in a really dangerous situation to have backup.  Zimmerman was a hothead and wanna be hero and a train wreck waiting to happen.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## jmdrake

> Chris Serino (lead detective): I was pressured to file charges. 
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/1...zimmerman.html


And you believe that tripe?  A sergeant and a couple of low ranking officers were bucking a detective *and the chief of police*?  And *why was the chief of police involved in what was initially a low level case*?  The more likely scenario is the chief told Serino "Back me up on this if you ever want to work in this town again."

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## torchbearer

> Say it is true that there are occasions of cops being unequal to African Americans when compared to other races. Why do you think Zimmerman, a half Hispanic, should suffer because of that?


then you run into matrix problems in places like nola, where the majority of the police force is dark skinned- yet, dark skinned people get arrested at still higher rates.
is it still racially motivated profiling? in a way yes.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## jmdrake

> Say it is true that there are occasions of cops being unequal to African Americans when compared to other races. Why do you think Zimmerman, a half Hispanic, should suffer because of that?


What does Zimmerman being half Hispanic have to do with anything?




For the record I don't think Zimmerman was racist, just stupid.

----------


## jmdrake

> I certainly do believe that politically and racially motivated groups made this case what it is today. A non-event turned into an uproar.


You can believe what you want.  But if Zimmerman hadn't been related to a retired judge he would have been charged with a crime the first night.  Anybody who doesn't know that doesn't understand America.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## jmdrake

> It has to do with media lies portraying this as racially motivated white vs black crime.


Did you watch the video I posted?  I'm betting that you didn't.

----------


## TheTexan

> Okay.  Let's look at *your* implication.  So if Zimmerman had been a cop and acted the exact same way then he would have been wrong and a "dickbag" just because he had a badge?


No, that's not what I said.  I said he was more qualified to police his neighborhood, than some dickbag cop.  If a cop had done the same thing, gotten attacked, and had his head smashed in the pavement, he also would have been justified in using defensive force.





> ..and they told him not to get out of his car. (And yes, I've seen idiots all over the web split hairs over whether "We don't need you to do that." meant "Don't do that."  Any unbiased with half a brain knows it meant "don't do that.")


He was already out of his car, when they said we don't need you to do that.  He said "ok", and walked back to his truck.  It was on his way back to his truck, that TM confronted him.




> That said, getting out of your car and going up to someone *by yourself* that you don't know has committed a crime, but you *think* might be a criminal is *INCREDIBLY STUPID!*


That wasn't his intent.  I believe he is telling the truth when he says he got out of the car to look for a street number, to tell the police where to go.  Furthermore, there is absolutely zero evidence that GZ "went up to" TM.  None.  Zilch.  The only evidence we have available (GZ's testimony) says that TM "went up to" GZ.





> Say if Trayvon really was a criminal and was packing?  Zimmerman would be dead now, no doubt about it.  And for what?  That's what kills me.  I here these "Say if Trayvon had just murdered someone" arguments on the web and talk radio.  Well what would punk-ass Zimmerman have done?  Gotten killed?  Gotten someone else killed?  He should have been patrolling in pairs.  The police know that in a really dangerous situation to have backup.  Zimmerman was a hothead and wanna be hero and a train wreck waiting to happen.


I agree, he's not the brightest light in the city.  But apparently, neither is TM.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## Czolgosz

If "George Zimmerman" had a brown person sounding name such as, "Jorge Gutierrez", this shooting would have been swept under the rug.

----------


## jmdrake

> No, that's not what I said.  I said he was more qualified to police his neighborhood, than some dickbag cop.  If a cop had done the same thing, gotten attacked, and had his head smashed in the pavement, he also would have been justified in using defensive force.


So why do the "same thing"?  Everything you have the "right" to do is not the "right" thing to do.  Again, if Trayvon had really been what Zimmerman feared, Zimmerman would be dead.




> He was already out of his car, when they said we don't need you to do that.  He said "ok", and walked back to his truck.  It was on his way back to his truck, that TM confronted him.
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't his intent.  I believe he is telling the truth when he says he got out of the car to look for a street number, to tell the police where to go.  Furthermore, there is absolutely zero evidence that GZ "went up to" TM.  None.  Zilch.  The only evidence we have available (GZ's testimony) says that TM "went up to" GZ.


If GZ is so unfamiliar with his neighborhood that he had to get out of his car just to find a street number, than that undermines your initial argument about how he was better equipped to handle the situation than a cop.  Plus Zimmerman didn't have GPS on his phone?





> I agree, he's not the brightest light in the city.  But apparently, neither is TM.


Well on that we agree..about both of them.

----------


## jmdrake

> Admittedly no, because I thought it was about race, which is irrelevant.


A) You brought up race, so it's silly turn around and say "it's not about race".

B) You *really* should watch it.




Edit: The point is, just because Zimmerman is half hispanic doesn't mean he's incapable of hating blacks.  Not saying that he did or didn't hate blacks.  It's just irrelevant.  He could have been named "George Gonzales".

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## kathy88

> How do we know you don't hate Zimmerman for being Hispanic?


are you serious?

----------


## jmdrake

> I brought up Zimmerman's race to correct the media lies, not because I wanted it to be about race. The video is about one race group that goes after another. Kind of irrelevant. Did you read the article I posted or did you just decide not to believe it?


A) I read the article and pointed out to you *why* I didn't believe it.  Just because you apparently didn't read my response is irrelevant.

B) So the media picked up on the wrong group?  Big freaking deal.  Yep the media thought Zimmerman was full blood German and Zimmerman was half hispanic and there are probably more hate crimes from hispanics against blacks these days than whites against blacks so your point is what is really irrelevant.

----------


## amy31416

What's peculiar to me is that depending on the political slant of the news outlet, the skittles & ice tea combo will be used to angelicize or demonize him. In some situations, they make the fact that he just bought candy to make him seem like a child, in others it's to make him seem like a thug. The kid didn't have any Robitussin on him, so why is the assumption that he was making this "drank" concoction?

If he weren't dead it'd be comical.

----------


## jmdrake

> What's peculiar to me is that depending on the political slant of the news outlet, the skittles & ice tea combo will be used to angelicize or demonize him. In some situations, they make the fact that he just bought candy to make him seem like a child, in others it's to make him seem like a thug. The kid didn't have any Robitussin on him, so why is the assumption that he was making this "drank" concoction?
> 
> If he weren't dead it'd be comical.


My thoughts exactly.

Edit: And didn't we cover this whole "purple drank" thing a year ago?  Why are folks acting like it's "news?"

----------


## torchbearer

> What's peculiar to me is that depending on the political slant of the news outlet, the skittles & ice tea combo will be used to angelicize or demonize him. In some situations, they make the fact that he just bought candy to make him seem like a child, in others it's to make him seem like a thug. The kid didn't have any Robitussin on him, so why is the assumption that he was making this "drank" concoction?
> 
> If he weren't dead it'd be comical.



robitussin isn't want is used in purple drank.
that is roboing, something different.
drank is codeine syrup.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## torchbearer

> The kid wasn't 18 so we don't actually see him buying it. You need an ID to buy Robitussin. But those two ingredients are well known for completing the rest of the purple drank concoction. Using Robitussin instead of Codeine is considered to be the poor mans purple drank.


robitussin is a dissassociative. there is nothing fun about taking large doses of it.
that fact could be used against trayvon, as it could confirm the guy was literally 'out of his mind'.
whereas if it were codeine, it could be said that there was no way he started a fight jacked up on something that puts you to sleep.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## pcosmar

> You don't have the right to bash someone's head into the concrete because you think they are stalking you, No.


Dude,, you accost me on a dark street,, after following me for blocks you will look a lot worse than that..
And if you pull a gun you may very well be eating it.
HE IS DAMN LUCKY HE DIDN'T TRY THAT $#@! WITH SOMEONE THAT ACTUALLY HAD SOME STREET TIME UNDER HIS BELT.

----------


## amy31416

> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Edit: And didn't we cover this whole "purple drank" thing a year ago?  Why are folks acting like it's "news?"


To others who responded--regardless of whether I'm right about Robitussin, I still (if I were on the jury) would never assume that I could possibly know for sure that the candy and drink were going to be used for some drug concoction, so it'd be irrelevant. I'd neither find him more nor less innocent because he purchased these items. Even if they could prove that he had used drugs in the past or intended to use drugs in the future, it's irrelevant.

I think this overblown "drank" thing is in response to half of the media trying to portray Trayvon as a little boy who just went to the store for candy and got jumped by a pro-gun, racist, conservative white guy. They smeared Zimmerman, rather unfairly--so the "other side" feels free to smear Trayvon.

The end result? More polarization.

ETA: This was written assuming that neither GZ nor TM was actually found to be on drugs at the time.

----------


## pcosmar

> The kid wasn't 18 so we don't actually see him buying it. You need an ID to buy Robitussin. But those two ingredients are well known for completing the rest of the purple drank concoction. Using Robitussin instead of Codeine is considered to be the poor mans purple drank.


*So the $#@! what?* it is irrelevant. The kid had a perfect right to be there.
To travel those streets unhindered.
I don't care if he was high as a kite and smoking a spliff. He was unarmed in a place where he had every right to be.

The fact that he was seen as suspicious by Zimmerman ,,, was Zimmerman's problem.
The kid was walking home from a store.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## krugminator

> *So the $#@! what?* it is irrelevant. The kid had a perfect right to be there.
> To travel those streets unhindered.
> I don't care if he was high as a kite and smoking a spliff. He was unarmed in a place where he had every right to be.
> 
> The fact that he was seen as suspicious by Zimmerman ,,, was Zimmerman's problem.
> The kid was walking home from a store.


There had been multiple burglaries in the area recently.  A kid in a hoodie is walking around looking like he doesn't have a specific place to go in the rain, while it's dark out. He wasn't walking a dog or with someone else. He didn't look familiar and it's a gated community. It would be insane not to be suspicious given this setup. Zimmerman behaved correctly calling the non-emergency line for the police. 

And it wasn't like Zimmerman was way off. This wasn't a Rhodes Scholar walking around. This was a drug user, who has been suspended school and has an affinity for violent culture. His friend Rachel, who he was on the phone with is not a high quality person.

Does all of this make Zimmerman a saint? No. Does it mean Martin should have been shot? Maybe not. But it pretty is darn easy to see why Zimmerman would have acted the way he did. He clearly is not guilty of 2nd degree murder and that is what is he is on trial for.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Sure, but the kid didn't have a "right" to attack Zimmerman. If I attacked someone for looking at me funny, I'd definitely get what's coming.


So true.  The one who first initiated violence is the one who is to blame.

----------


## TheTexan

> Dude,, you accost me on a dark street


a) There is no evidence that GZ accosted him
b) It wasn't on a street, it was in a residential dog walking type area
c) 7pm isnt very dark

----------


## FrankRep

The war on self-defense continues...

----------


## pcosmar

Oh,, I got to take this apart.. this is just so full of fail. I'll put mine in red.




> There had been multiple burglaries in the area recently.
> That is any and everywhere in this country. At any time.
> 
>   A kid in a hoodie is walking around looking like he doesn't have a specific place to go in the rain, while it's dark out.
> A kid that lived there (at least temporarily) with his father. and it is usually dark out at night, And a Hoodie is a very common article of clothing.. I have several, as does my wife. 
> 
>  He wasn't walking a dog or with someone else. 
> Is a dog or companion necessary? I don't take mine to the store with me.
> He didn't look familiar and it's a gated community. 
> ...


But stalking (for whatever reason) and confronting someone on a dark street is not self defense.
That is provoking a confrontation.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Oh,, I got to take this apart.. this is just so full of fail. I'll put mine in red.
> 
> 
> 
> But stalking (for whatever reason) and confronting someone on a dark street is not self defense.
> That is provoking a confrontation.


Wake up!  Zimmerman was confronted by Martin, not the other way around.

----------


## TheTexan

> Wake up!  Zimmerman was confronted by Martin, not the other way around.


He refuses to accept that.  Based on no evidence, he is more than happy to convict Zimmerman on his speculation that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

----------


## Dr.3D

> He refuses to accept that.  Based on no evidence, he is more than happy to convict Zimmerman on his speculation that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.


Oh I see.... carry on then.

----------


## jmdrake

> Your response suggested you didn't read it. Unless you think the miami herald made up the article, I don't understand why you would doubt it.


My response referenced the article.  I was making the point that I don't buy that a police detective would cave to pressure from a couple of patrolman and a sergeant over the chief of police.  In case you didn't know, detectives outrank sergeants.  I also pointed out that irregularity of the chief of police being involved in what was initially some low level shooting.  People get shot in Miami all the time.  They don't get shot by relatives of retired judges all the time.  And I wasn't saying that the Miami Herald was making anything up.  I'm saying that it's obvious (to me anyway) that if there if the detective is being pressured by anyone it's the chief of police.  The far more likely story is that once word got out that the chief of police didn't want charges filed the detective decided to come up with a cover story as to why he wanted to file charges in the first place.  Also I don't believe for a moment that Tracy  Martin "understood" why charges weren't initially filed.  That's not the reaction of a grieving father under those circumstances even if he did believe his son was a thug.  Just because my response isn't what you wanted doesn't mean I didn't read the article.  It's rather arrogant of you to assume otherwise.




> It is a *big* deal because of the white vs black racial tension this country has. It's a big deal because it is media manipulation to benefit political groups.


Right.  And in this case the group that Zimmerman is part of hates blacks as much or more than whites.  So your little factoid doesn't help your argument except to point out that the media wanted it spun one way instead of the other.  And again *you* brought up race so it's stupid of you to try to call me out for talking about race.

----------


## WM_in_MO

Ban thread gas OP, $#@! this $#@!. What the $#@! are we doing?

We have an evil empire to topple and we're sitting in front of our keyboards BICKERING OVER SOME $#@! THAT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY OF US

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## pcosmar

> Wake up!  Zimmerman was confronted by Martin, not the other way around.


The kid was on a phone,, and talking about avoiding some freak that was stalking him..

Zimmerman was in a vehicle..

at some point Zimmerman exited his vehicle to find the person he was stalking.

The kid did not drag him from it,, he did that on his own.

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## Dr.3D

> The kid was on a phone,, and talking about avoiding some freak that was stalking him..
> 
> Zimmerman was in a vehicle..
> 
> at some point Zimmerman exited his vehicle to find the person he was stalking.
> 
> The kid did not drag him from it,, he did that on his own.


As I understand it, Martin had already been home but then decided to double back to confront Zimmerman.

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## MelissaWV

> Ban thread gas OP, $#@! this $#@!. What the $#@! are we doing?
> 
> We have an evil empire to topple and we're sitting in front of our keyboards BICKERING OVER SOME $#@! THAT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY OF US


Of course.  Prosecutors overstepping their bounds, the media ignoring some facts to focus on and reinterpret others, the perception that if you are found to be a "person of lesser quality" after the fact your death was justified, the assumption that you are guilty of concocting a drug even if you are only in possession of Skittles and tea... none of this will ever have any impact on any of us.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

What was that about an evil empire?

----------


## pcosmar

> Ban thread gas OP, $#@! this $#@!. What the $#@! are we doing?
> 
> We have an evil empire to topple and we're sitting in front of our keyboards BICKERING OVER SOME $#@! THAT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY OF US


I know,, and had avoided these threads,, that had already been discussed long ago...

But this bull$#@! about what the kid may have drank.. well,, the stupidity of it just irks me.

----------


## krugminator

> Oh,, I got to take this apart.. this is just so full of fail. I'll put mine in red.
> 
> 
> 
> But stalking (for whatever reason) and confronting someone on a dark street is not self defense.
> That is provoking a confrontation.


You didn't actually refute anything.  Profiling is contextual and all of the pieces of the puzzle made the picture much more likely than normal that Martin could be a potential criminal. The odds may normally be .05% that a typical person in the neighborhood was potentially committing  a crime. The context around Martin might raise the odds to 5% of the time that he is either a criminal or considering  committing  a crime and those are high enough odds to be proactive.

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## pcosmar

> As I understand it, Martin had already been home but then decided to double back to confront Zimmerman.


So did I ,,the last time I had someone stalking me.. but I stepped out of my home with a gun in hand..

The ex-cop left in a hurry.

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## TheTexan

> So did I ,,the last time I had someone stalking me.. but I stepped out of my home with a gun in hand..
> 
> The ex-cop left in a hurry.


Was TM within his rights, then, to punch Zimmerman for "stalking" him?

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## jmdrake

> The kid was on a phone,, and talking about avoiding some freak that was stalking him..
> 
> Zimmerman was in a vehicle..
> 
> at some point Zimmerman exited his vehicle to find the person he was stalking.
> 
> The kid did not drag him from it,, he did that on his own.





> As I understand it, Martin had already been home but then decided to double back to confront Zimmerman.


As you understand it?  Link please.  What we know is that Zimmerman was following Martin from his truck and then Zimmerman got out of his truck.  The "I was looking for a house number to tell the police" line is *bull$#@!*.  Someone pointed out that it wasn't really dark at the time?  Well if it's still light out, and if you supposedly are *soooo* familiar with your hood that you know who should and shouldn't be there, then you shouldn't need to get out of your truck to find some freaking house number.  Does that mean that Zimmerman didn't have a right to get out of his truck?  Of course not.  But the mental gymnastics people are contorting themselves through to make Zimmerman into some kind of libertarian self defense guru/hero that did absolutely no wrong is astounding.  Based on what we know it is quite apparent that Zimmerman was stalking Martin.  Did the stalker become the stalkee?  That is an open question.

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## Dr.3D

> So did I ,,the last time I had someone stalking me.. but I stepped out of my home with a gun in hand..
> 
> The ex-cop left in a hurry.


This was a bit far for him to have just stepped out of his home.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/216417.php

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## FrankRep

*Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted of Murder or Manslaughter -- Here's Why*


ABC News
July 7, 2013


 The essence of Zimmerman's account is basically as follows:


He spotted Martin, became suspicious, called police, was told he didn't need to follow him, got out of his car only to give the authorities the address, was jumped and then pummeled by Martin and as he was being punched and having his head knocked into the ground, Martin went for Zimmerman's firearm and Zimmerman shot him once in the chest.

The prosecution, on the other hand, called 38 witnesses to try to show: Zimmerman was a wannabe cop who regularly reported black strangers in his neighborhood; initiated and was at least at one point, on top during the encounter; that Zimmerman's injuries were minor and that many aspects of his accounts to the police and media were inconsistent and/or lies.

*For a moment, lets put aside the fact that many of the prosecution witnesses seemed to help Zimmerman in one way or another.*

As a legal matter, even if jurors find parts of Zimmerman's story fishy, that is not enough to convict. Even if they believe that Zimmerman initiated the altercation, and that his injuries were relatively minor, that too would be insufficient evidence to convict. 
...



*Minor injuries?*

----------


## pcosmar

> You didn't actually refute anything.  Profiling is contextual and all of the pieces of the puzzle made the picture much more likely than normal that Martin could be a potential criminal. The odds may normally be .05% that a typical person in the neighborhood was potentially committing  a crime. The context around Martin might raise the odds to 5% of the time that he is either a criminal or considering  committing  a crime and those are high enough odds to be proactive.


IRRELEVANT
He was not committing a crime. 

He was minding his own business. And should have been left alone..

Neighborhood watch is not a right to interfere in the lives of anyone. Period. Ever.
This stupid mentality is what gives us a Police State. The idea that you have a right to control others.

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## TheTexan

> Does that mean that Zimmerman didn't have a right to get out of his truck?  Of course not.  But the mental gymnastics people are contorting themselves through to make Zimmerman into some kind of libertarian self defense guru/hero that did absolutely no wrong is astounding.


Did he do anything wrong?  Sure, the guy is an idiot.  Did he do anything criminal?  There is no evidence that suggests that.  Innocent until proven guilty.




> Based on what we know it is quite apparent that Zimmerman was stalking Martin.  Did the stalker become the stalkee?  That is an open question.


Based on the only evidence we have available, Martin confronted Zimmerman as Zimmerman was returning to his truck.

If you want to dispute his story, and think its bull$#@!, then prove it.  Otherwise he's innocent.

And you know what?  IMO, even if he did walk up to Martin, and ask "Hey, I haven't seen you around these parts, I'm with neighborhood watch, just thought I'd introduce myself", I wouldn't see a problem with that, either.

But, again, the only evidence we have, is that Martin walked up to Zimmerman, and Martin wanted the fight.  He got the fight he was looking for, unfortunately.

----------


## TheTexan

> Neighborhood watch is not a right to interfere in the lives of anyone. Period. Ever.


At what point did Zimmerman interfere with Trayvon's life?

----------


## pcosmar

> This was a bit far for him to have just stepped out of his home.


I was relating my own experience,, a very long time ago.

I also knew my stalker and knew he was armed. And he is dead now (of natural cases).
so that is all irrelevant

----------


## FrankRep

> Neighborhood watch is not a right to interfere in the lives of anyone. Period. Ever.


Trayvon Martin didn't have the right to bash Zimmerman's head into the concrete.

----------


## krugminator

> IRRELEVANT
> He was not committing a crime. 
> 
> He was minding his own business. And should have been left alone..
> 
> Neighborhood watch is not a right to interfere in the lives of anyone. Period. Ever.
> This stupid mentality is what gives us a Police State. The idea that you have a right to control others.


 If you are suspicious of someone, you have every right to give them added scrutiny. Wondering what someone is up to in this situation isn't violating any constitutional rights.

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## pcosmar

done with it.
will see what the jury decides.

----------


## jmdrake

> Did he do anything wrong?  Sure, the guy is an idiot.  Did he do anything criminal?  There is no evidence that suggests that.  Innocent until proven guilty.


I didn't say he wasn't guilty or innocent.  Respond to what I actually wrote, if you can.

_Does that mean that Zimmerman didn't have a right to get out of his truck? Of course not. But the mental gymnastics people are contorting themselves through to make Zimmerman into some kind of libertarian self defense guru/hero that did absolutely no wrong is astounding._




> Based on the only evidence we have available, Martin confronted Zimmerman as Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
> 
> If you want to dispute his story, and think its bull$#@!, then prove it.  Otherwise he's innocent.


Not my job.  I'm not the prosecutor.  And it doesn't matter if the prosecutor can "prove it" to you as you are not on the jury.  What I called "bull$#@!" is his story that he was getting out of his car to look find a house number to tell the police.  Based on all the evidence we have, that is clearly a lie.  So now we have someone who lied about one part of his story.  Chances are he's lying about other parts as well.  He's only saving grace is that he's probably not the only liar in this charade.




> And you know what?  IMO, even if he did walk up to Martin, and ask "Hey, I haven't seen you around these parts, I'm with neighborhood watch, just thought I'd introduce myself", I wouldn't see a problem with that, either.


As neither side is claiming ^that, your point is irrelevant.




> But, again, the only evidence we have, is that Martin walked up to Zimmerman, and Martin wanted the fight.  He got the fight he was looking for, unfortunately.


That evidence is from someone who clearly lied about his reason for getting out of the truck.  Whether Zimmerman was telling the truth about the last bit, I don't know.  But a juror wouldn't be crazy to think he was lying.  A juror wouldn't be crazy to think he was telling the truth either.

----------


## Wren

//

----------


## jmdrake

> Actual FBI report to read Serino's own testimony. I'm well aware that a detective ranks higher than a patrolmen or sergeant. I'm not looking for any specific response from you, I'm just informing you that Zimmerman's actions would have been justified under Florida's Stand Your Ground law before the politically and racially motivated mob decided to take matters into their own hands to pressure the police department. Okay, you read the article but didn't believe parts of it. You can believe what want.


Right.  *After* the *flaming chief of police* came out publicly in favor of Zimmerman, the detective comes up with the "sergeant made me do it" story.  And you believe it just because he told it to the FBI.  





> Way to generalize. All hispanics hate blacks? I brought up Zimmerman's race to correct the media lies, not make this specifically about race as you've been doing.


Dufus, I didn't say all blacks hate hispanics.  I pointed out that there have been more hispanic on black hate crimes than white on black hate crimes.  And again *you* brought up race and I specifically responded to *you* you hypocrite!  I care not why you brought up race.  You did.  You pointed out that Zimmerman was actually half hispanic.  So what?  The media lies.  Again...so what?

----------


## TheTexan

> I didn't say he wasn't guilty or innocent.  Respond to what I actually wrote, if you can.
> 
> _Does that mean that Zimmerman didn't have a right to get out of his truck? Of course not. But the mental gymnastics people are contorting themselves through to make Zimmerman into some kind of libertarian self defense guru/hero that did absolutely no wrong is astounding._


Ok, so we agree that he didn't commit a crime?  Because that's what I said.  Sure doesn't seem like you agree with that... if not, try to respond to what I actually wrote...

If you do agree that he didn't commit a crime, then great; we're on the same page.





> Not my job.  I'm not the prosecutor.  And it doesn't matter if the prosecutor can "prove it" to you as you are not on the jury.  What I called "bull$#@!" is his story that he was getting out of his car to look find a house number to tell the police. * Based on all the evidence we have, that is clearly a lie*.  So now we have someone who lied about one part of his story.  Chances are he's lying about other parts as well.  He's only saving grace is that he's probably not the only liar in this charade.


There is evidence he was lying?  Do tell.  I haven't seen any.





> As neither side is claiming ^that, your point is irrelevant.


pcosmar, for one, has been strongly insinuating if not outright saying, that following him and (allegedly) approaching him, is itself grounds for prosecution




> That evidence is from someone who clearly lied about his reason for getting out of the truck.  Whether Zimmerman was telling the truth about the last bit, I don't know.  But a juror wouldn't be crazy to think he was lying.  A juror wouldn't be crazy to think he was telling the truth either.


Sounds like a reasonable doubt, to me.

----------


## susano

4 1/2 pages into this and WTF? Purple drank is irrelevant to this story. All that matters is if TM assaulted GZ giving GZ legit grounds to use deadly force. Stooping to character assassination of TM is WRONG.

----------


## Luciconsort

> You are obviously a black hoodlum.
> 
> (Sorry.  Having met you in person, I can't help but giggle as I type that.)


lol that was pretty funny

----------


## TheTexan

> 4 1/2 pages into this and WTF? Purple drank is irrelevant to this story. All that matters is if TM assaulted GZ giving GZ legit grounds to use deadly force. Stooping to character assassination of TM is WRONG.


I don't think anyone here is 'character assassinating' TM based on his drug use.  Moreso an observation of media bias.  Anyway, that was like 12 pages ago.  This thread is no longer about that lol

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Say it is true that there are occasions of cops being unequal to African Americans when compared to other races. Why do you think Zimmerman, a half Hispanic, should suffer because of that?


He's not suffering because of that.

He almost got away with it because of that.

He killed an unarmed kid and because the cops profiled a black guy in a hoodie and because they loved Zimmerman their wanna-be cop buddy whose dad is a judge  they let him walk with easy questions and didn't arrest him.

That's something cops never do.

It only became an issue when the cops got caught being corrupt and the community got involved.




> I certainly do believe that politically and racially motivated groups made this case what it is today. A non-event turned into an uproar.


No way.  No way.  If Zimmerman were black he would be arrested on the spot and possibly the cops kick the $#@! out of him too.  That's what cops do - in every other example I've ever seen.

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Ban thread gas OP, $#@! this $#@!. What the $#@! are we doing?
> 
> We have an evil empire to topple and we're sitting in front of our keyboards BICKERING OVER SOME $#@! THAT DOESN'T AFFECT ANY OF US


Step off it.  You're not above everyone else.

YES THIS DOES EFFECT SOME OF US.

Whether or not a person can kill another person and get away with it does effect me and people I know.  I've known people who've gotten shot and the ones who did it remained on the streets.  Yes it does impact the daily lives of people.

I'm sure you have issues that you care about that don't impact my daily life.  Such is life.

----------


## UWDude

> Just so you know. The innocent "skittles and ice tea" meme from the media horde is a farce. The kid was a wannabe punk and he died like one. What's more despicable is the exploitation by the parents. Trademarking your dead sons name to make a profit is easier than a handout. 
> 
> http://thekansascitian.blogspot.com/...ayvon.html?m=1


Bull$#@!

Listen to Dave Chappell, he'll tell you what purple drank is.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

little turds like him are the reason why some states restrict how much cough syrup you can buy?

http://tribstar.com/local/x46868452/...ated-drug-laws

This type of $#@! is why I will never give up my drivers license to buy any product. It's being used as a tracking device

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> little turds like him are the reason why some states restrict how much cough syrup you can buy?
> 
> http://tribstar.com/local/x46868452/...ated-drug-laws
> 
> This type of $#@! is why I will never give up my drivers license to buy any product. It's being used as a tracking device


Amazing sentiment.

I always figured it was an overzealous militarized police force with propagandized sheeps begging for attention over their neighbor's lives.

Here it was just Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea.

----------


## BlackTerrel

> Amazing sentiment.
> 
> I always figured it was an overzealous militarized police force with propagandized sheeps begging for attention over their neighbor's lives.
> 
> Here it was just Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea.


Nope not the government this time.  It's dead teenagers like Trayvon Martin who force the government to regulate everything - clearly the little $#@! deserved it.

----------


## shawnainthome

Ummm... wouldn't it be, "It's a drank to died for"?

----------


## Ranger29860

SOOOO according to the picture on that blog the recipe for Skittles is 

Skittles = Purple Lean + Random Violence - Arizona Tea - Cough Syrup  :P

----------


## Weston White

> If races were reversed and if he wasn't buddy buddy with the cops he would have been arrested on the spot.
> 
> Seriously.  You're telling me I shoot an unarmed white guy and not roughed up/arrested?  Really?  What kind of world do you live in?


So where is the utter outrage, where's the ever dogmatic Sharpton, Jackson, and crew at for these incidents?  What happened to their anger over those victims, what about your anger?  Wheres your anger at (including kcchiefs6465, Ender, and others); you being so very upset or offended over the Zimmerman incident, so what about these other ones?

Trevor Dooley: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...went-to-Court#

Roderick Scott: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-nobody-cares/

Unthinkable Evil: Teen Intentionally Shoots Woman's 13-Month-Old:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...bbery-attempt/

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> So where is the utter outrage, where's the ever dogmatic Sharpton, Jackson, and crew at for these incidents?  What happened to their anger over those victims, what about your anger?  Where’s your anger at (including kcchiefs6465, Ender, and others); you being so very upset or offended over the Zimmerman incident, so what about these other ones?
> 
> Trevor Dooley: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...went-to-Court#
> 
> Roderick Scott: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-nobody-cares/
> 
> Unthinkable Evil: Teen Intentionally Shoots Woman's 13-Month-Old:
> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...bbery-attempt/


Excuse me?

I don't give the blaze much traffic.

Are you insinuating I would not be outraged should a 13 month old have been executed?

The $#@! do you mean? I feel for any child dead. What do you want, me to shed tears or attend the funeral?

The world is $#@!ed up. Beyond words. Forgive me for not being able to change the inclination of Man to harm their fellow Man.

----------


## Ender

> So where is the utter outrage, where's the ever dogmatic Sharpton, Jackson, and crew at for these incidents?  What happened to their anger over those victims, what about your anger?  Wheres your anger at (including kcchiefs6465, Ender, and others); you being so very upset or offended over the Zimmerman incident, so what about these other ones?
> 
> Trevor Dooley: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...went-to-Court#
> 
> Roderick Scott: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-nobody-cares/
> 
> Unthinkable Evil: Teen Intentionally Shoots Woman's 13-Month-Old:
> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...bbery-attempt/


Where's your outrage? What are you doing about these? 

I've only seen these incidents posted as some supposed comparison to the Trayon/Zimmerman crap- not because you or anyone else really cares.

AGAIN- I first became interested in the Zimmerman mess because of the immediate judgments from "liberty sites" against Trayvon because he wore a hoodie. Everything that I have looked into points to the fact that this all became big news because of the parents' persistence in wanting to know why Zimmerman had never been arrested at the initial altercation and at the changed stories of witnesses by the police. It only became _news_ because the parents didn't give up.

Because Sharpton et al used it as some publicity for themselves does not change this reason.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> I don't understand why no one talks about this. He even talks about doing this crap on his Facebook page.  Why does no one care that this kid was a druggie?  He's been suspended from school for stealing and doing drugs.


Are you suggesting young man who suspected war criminal Obama called his son if he had one was a druggie?

----------


## Ender

> *Originally Posted by krugminator*
> I don't understand why no one talks about this. He even talks about doing this crap on his Facebook page. Why does no one care that this kid was a druggie? He's been suspended from school for stealing and doing drugs.


He was NOT suspended for stealing or "doing" drugs; he was suspended for:

-graffiti
-having a flathead screw driver
-traces of pot in a baggie

There was no "drank" in his system- only traces of some THC, according to the coroner.

And why is that Zimmerman defenders ignore his past?

-Arrests for violence, including domestic
-lying to the judge
-reportedly molesting a younger cousin for 10 years
-editing the 911 calls that he turned into for his case against the media editing the 911 calls

----------

