# Lifestyles & Discussion > Peace Through Religion >  Bible verse supporting limited government

## AggieforPaul

"It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes." -- Ps. 118:9

Use that next time some brings up "render unto Ceasar".

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## MRoCkEd

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

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## purplechoe



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## Liberty Star

> "It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes." -- Ps. 118:9
> 
> Use that next time some brings up "render unto Ceasar".

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## SevenEyedJeff

The authority God put over us is the Constitution, and it must be defended.

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## ForLiberty-RonPaul

> Romans 13
> Submission to the Authorities
>  1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


1 Samuel Ch. 8

contradiction?

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## ClayTrainor

> The authority God put over us is the Constitution, and it must be defended.


I'm pretty sure the Constitution was written and enacted by men...




> "It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes." -- Ps. 118:9


Interesting Quote...

If this lord does exist, His rule is the Natural Law, which must be respected by any life form with the interest of survival.

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## idirtify

I was just reminded recently how the NT and Jesus are basically anti-authoritarian.

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## Dieseler

> I'm pretty sure the Constitution was written and enacted by men...


True but,
The best authority God ever put over us was that of the Founding Fathers and the wisdom he bestowed upon those men yielded the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights, and it must be defended.
Is this not a fair enough statement?
Our present leaders are doing us no justice but they are supposed to be under that same authority.

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## nate895

Aggie, you are going backwards. The Bible teaches what liberty and the proper role of government is. You reason from Scripture, into application in all of life. You don't go into the Bible with a preconceived idea of what you think should be there.

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## nate895

> And if this lord does exist, His rule is the Natural Law, which must be respected by any life form with the interest of survival.


Nice to know you are an oracle of God, even though you don't believe in Him.

Edit: Also, what's with ACORN selling pocket, leather-bound constitutions?

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## ClayTrainor

> True but,
> The best authority God ever put over us was that of the Founding Fathers and the wisdom he bestowed upon those men yielded the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights, and it must be defended.
> Is this not a fair enough statement?


I guess it's fair enough for someone who is both a deist and a minarchist.  The founders were bright men but, i do not believe they were favored by a God nor did God have a unique direct line of communication with them.

I believe the best authority God (if he exists) has put over us is the Natural Law, and it is our burden to learn morality from it, not his burden to teach us.  Mankind has to learn morality from one another, in my opinion.  





> Our present leaders are doing us no justice.


That's an understatement.

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## ClayTrainor

> Nice to know you are an oracle of God, even though you don't believe in Him.


I'm not an oracle, A god has never spoken to me, I just try to be rational 

We are natural beings and a product of the Natural Law.  If there is a God, I can only assume he somehow started the Natural process, and set the "laws".  That's all i meant.

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## Dieseler

> I guess it's fair enough for someone who is both a deist and a minarchist.  The founders were bright men but, i do not believe they were favored by a God nor did God have a unique direct line of communication with them.
> 
> I believe the best authority God (if he exists) has put over us is the Natural Law, and it is our burden to learn morality from it, not his burden to teach us.  Mankind has to learn morality from one another, in my opinion.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's an understatement.


Monkey see monkey do.
lol

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## UnReconstructed

How can you love God and pay taxes without question?  Does government have more say over your life than you do?  Then quit paying taxes... you have put government in front of God.  You cannot serve two masters.  Rendering unto Caesar implies that Caesar has more of a right to my life than I do or even my God being that my labor produced my wealth and it is not a gift from Caesar.

How can you love your neighbor and force him to bend to your will?  Are you more just than Christ?  Whom did Jesus force?  According to Romans 13 that was posted earlier, government is supposed to be there for good. Hmmm... trying to remember the last time that a government was there for good...  As best that I can recall, government has always oppressed and murdered people... people created in the image and likeness of God whom sent His only Son to pay for their sin.

I just cannot come up with a justification for keeping this antiquated system around anymore.  The very root of government is that someone should rule over me rather than God.

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## V4Vendetta

> Romans 13
> Submission to the Authorities
>  1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


Yes Yes, Hitler often quoted this chapter. If this is taken too literally, people Like Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Alexander, and King George come to power, Our founders knew that there is a line. The people in the Alamo, knew there was a line to not cross.

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## Fox McCloud

I really don't think Romans 13 conflicts with the rest of the Bible or the philosophies of limited government/liberty at all:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Gregory/williams100.htm

fairly interesting little read. =3

just had to pop in and post this, as I figured no one else would.

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## jmdrake

> Romans 13
> Submission to the Authorities
>  1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


YouTube - 5/25/09 Broadcast "Romans 13 Explained by Pastor Steven Anderson (part 1 of 2)"

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