# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Shots fired, Bundy arrested

## JK/SEA

need more confirmation...

----------


## goldenequity

Highway 395 at the intersection of US 20 north of Burns -- not far from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge 
-- closed in both directions, Jan. 26, 2016 (KOIN) http://koin.com/2016/01/26/malheur-m...ment-01262016/

----------


## goldenequity

4 arrested,Ammon Bundy taken into custody. Per stream.
======================




> Two people have been shot and Ammon Bundy is in custody, according to a YouTube live stream report by Pete Santilli, who was speaking outside a hospital in Burns.
> 
> Santilli, a self-styled journalist, took to social media to discuss the breaking development late Tuesday afternoon. He also reported that the FBI has told the protesters at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge that they are free to go and need to leave immediately.
> 
> Santilli said he was waiting at the hospital to confirm the reports of the shootings. The Oregonian/OregonLive could not independently confirm the reports.


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...ts_suppor.html

----------


## RJB

I have an unsettled feeling about all this.

----------


## phill4paul

> need more confirmation...


  Live stream seems to be down.

----------


## phill4paul

> Follow this post for additional updates.
> 
> 
> 
> This evening, the FBI made a legal, felony stop on a vehicle carrying Ammon Bundy and several other individuals.  After a shoot out with the FBI, four individuals were reportedly taken into custody, including Ammon Bundy.  Two individuals are reported to have been taken to the Burns hospital, which is currently on lock down.
> 
> FBI sources stated that those at the Refuge are currently free to leave unimpeded, implying that there might be action if they do not leave immediately.


https://www.oathkeepers.org/breaking...o-fbi-custody/

----------


## phill4paul

Santilli  is saying that Fox news is reporting 4 in custody. Asking Blain to get all the women and children out of the refuge.

----------


## JK/SEA

report Santilli has been arrested.

----------


## phill4paul

> Ryan Payne, one of the occupation leaders, suffered multiple gunshots, according to a local government official.


https://twitter.com/LesZaitz/status/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

----------


## JK/SEA

Report Ryan Payne shot several times. un-confirmed on this as well as Santilli...

----------


## phill4paul

> UPDATES:
> 
> 1811L:  Blaine Cooper has reportedly assumed leadership at the Refuge and has been told to leave immediately.  During a phone call with Pete Santilli, Pete can be overheard saying, “Blaine, please don’t do this.”  Blaine is reportedly wanting to make a stand.  Women and children are still at the Refuge.
> 
> 1821L:  According to local government officials, Ryan Payne suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was taken to the Burns hospital.


https://www.oathkeepers.org/breaking...o-fbi-custody/

----------


## JK/SEA

Santilli grabbed for questioning...

----------


## PursuePeace

wow, what the heck is going on? I was just watching this from earlier in the day:

----------


## Danke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS9D...W4PuUwinhOe-1w

----------


## Badger Paul

They're being brought to justice. That's what's going on.

----------


## phill4paul

Appears they were on their way to a meeting so the Feds knew they would be on the highway.




> Update: George Plaven, a reporter for the East Oregonian in Pendleton, is tweeting from the site of a planned community meeting that was to feature Ammon Bundy and other leaders of the occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> 6:06 p.m.: Meeting organizer just announced guest speakers won't be here. "It appears there was an altercation b/t here and Burns." #Oregonstandoff
> 
> 6:24 p.m: Quickly devolving into shouting match here. People demanding to know what happened. Room divided in front and back. #Oregonstandoff
> 
> 6:25 p.m: Family from KS now praying for Hammonds, militia. Claims to be representatives. She shouted "Someone has been shot!" #Oregonstandoff


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...cart_big-photo

----------


## mrsat_98

It would have gone a lot easier if he would have just broke into the jail.

----------


## Danke

> They're being brought to justice. That's what's going on.


Ah yes, justice...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> They're being brought to justice. That's what's going on.


Live free or talk $#@! on the internet.

----------


## phill4paul

> The Oregonian ‏@Oregonian  8m8 minutes ago
> #BREAKING: Bundys in custody, one militant dead after gunfight near Burns #OregonStandoff http://bit.ly/1PRlfuy


https://twitter.com/George_Plaven




> Les Zaitz ‏@LesZaitz  9m9 minutes ago
> The identity of the militant killed in the highway shootout is not yet being released.


https://twitter.com/Oregonian

----------


## JK/SEA

one dead....

----------


## Danke

> one dead....


Apparently it was a " militant". I guess the FBI with be mourning their lose.

----------


## phill4paul

FBI press release:




> The FBI and the Oregon State Police jointly reported five people were arrested and one unnamed person was killed in connection with an occupation at the Malheur National Wild Refuge. Here's the full news release:
> 
> At approximately 4:25 p.m. (PST) on Tuesday, January 26, 2016, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Oregon State Police (OSP) began an enforcement action to bring into custody a number of individuals associated with the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. During that arrest, there were shots fired.
> 
> One individual who was a subject of a federal probable cause arrest is deceased. We will not be releasing any information about that person pending identification by the medical examiner's office.
> 
> One individual suffered non-life threatening injuries and was transported to a local hospital for treatment. He was arrested and is currently in custody.
> 
> The arrested individuals include:
> ...


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...connectio.html

----------


## phill4paul

Reports that LaVoy Finicum was the one that was killed. Looking for confirmation.

----------


## pcosmar

Where was their backup/over watch ?

AND WHY WERE THEY AMBUSHED ON THE WAY TO A MEETING?

----------


## Rothbardian Girl

e: saw phill4paul already posted what I was going to post. Apologies.

----------


## 69360

I don't understand why they let it come to this. There was an offer of same passage from the sheriff. Nobody had to die.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I don't understand why they let it come to this. There was an offer of same passage from the sheriff. Nobody had to die.


$#@! you.

----------


## PursuePeace

> Reports that LaVoy Finicum was the one that was killed. Looking for confirmation.


!!! I just heard the same thing. omg.

----------


## phill4paul

> Where was their backup/over watch ?
> 
> AND WHY WERE THEY AMBUSHED ON THE WAY TO A MEETING?


  Because the Feds knew they were on the way to the meeting. They figured if they took out the leaders, cut off the head of the snake, they would end the occupation.

----------


## phill4paul

> I don't understand why they let it come to this. There was an offer of same passage from the sheriff. Nobody had to die.


  Dosn't look like the sheriff provided them with safe passage to the meeting they were going to attend.

----------


## 69360

> $#@! you.


Is that right? 

I suppose I don't see the glory in getting offed by the Feds over an occupation the Oregon family did not want. 

Choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day.

----------


## 69360

> Dosn't look like the sheriff provided them with safe passage to the meeting they were going to attend.


That was never the offer. A few weeks ago they were offered safe passage to the state line so they could go home.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Is that right? 
> 
> I suppose I don't see the glory in getting offed by the Feds over an occupation the Oregon family did not want. 
> 
> Choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day.


Suck another dick and live  to fight another day.

----------


## 69360

> Suck another dick and live  to fight another day.


Nice. Who pissed in your cheerios?

----------


## phill4paul

> That was never the offer. A few weeks ago they were offered safe passage to the state line so they could go home.


  The Sheriff rolled over for the Feds from the beginning. He abrogated his elected authority. They were in route to a peaceful meeting. The only reason this went down the way it did is because the Feds decided it would go down like this. It didn't have to.

----------


## Danke

Clinton Foundation took massive payoffs, promised Hammond Ranch and other publicly owned lands to Russians along with one-fifth of our uranium ore.

https://www.intellihub.com/clinton-f...-lands-russia/

----------


## dillo

> Dosn't look like the sheriff provided them with safe passage to the meeting they were going to attend.


Who knows, the FBI has bugs and sources everywhere.  The sheriff couldve been a peace keeper that got bugged.

----------


## phill4paul

> Who knows, the FBI has bugs and sources everywhere.  The sheriff couldve been a peace keeper that got bugged.


  No. The Sheriff rolled over from day one and asked for Fed help. The whole town is staffed by government cronies.  The state Gov. demanded that the Feds do something. And so we have this.

----------


## Bryan

> $#@! you.


I understand emotions are very high but let's please keep this civil. Thank you.

----------


## 69360

> The Sheriff rolled over for the Feds from the beginning. He abrogated his elected authority. They were in route to a peaceful meeting. The only reason this went down the way it did is because the Feds decided it would go down like this. It didn't have to.


They may have been en route to a meeting, but they had previously broken laws and were subject to a lawful arrest. I think going into this they had to know they would eventually be arrested. 

I'm not opposed to militias. I'm not opposed to what went down at the Bundy ranch. But this time in these circumstances, they should have went home before somebody got killed.

----------


## FrancisMarion

Just doesn't seem smart to me to leave the refuge. Especially with small numbers. Where were the thousands of three %'s to provide security?  Guess we will find out in the end who was riding coat tails for free exposure. 

I'm thinking the Feds want this wrapped up.  I bet the refuge is frantic right now.

----------


## phill4paul

> They may have been en route to a meeting, but they had previously broken laws and were subject to a lawful arrest. I think going into this they had to know they would eventually be arrested. 
> 
> I'm not opposed to militias. I'm not opposed to what went down at the Bundy ranch. But this time in these circumstances, they should have went home before somebody got killed.


  Whatever, I really don't give a rat's ass what you think, I'm just updating with info as this proceeds.

----------


## phill4paul

> Just doesn't seem smart to me to leave the refuge. Especially with small numbers. Where were the thousands of three %'s to provide security?  Guess we will find out in the end who was riding coat tails for free exposure. 
> 
> I'm thinking the Feds want this wrapped up.  I bet the refuge is frantic right now.


  Supposedly the Feds have converged on the center. Don't really know what that means though...




> Federal law enforcement officers converged on the wildlife refuge after the arrests and were expected to remain at the site throughout the night. It was unclear how many members of the armed group, if any, were at the refuge when the law enforcement officers arrived.


http://katu.com/news/local/leader-of...thers-arrested

----------


## Bryan

> Choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day.


There is a lot of wisdom in that but each person has their own perspective and own lines. We will all do well to understand our own and respect each others. No easy answers here but open dialog does help one gain clarity.

This is all very tragic. A life was lost.

----------


## 69360

> Just doesn't seem smart to me to leave the refuge. Especially with small numbers. Where were the thousands of three %'s to provide security?  Guess we will find out in the end who was riding coat tails for free exposure. 
> 
> I'm thinking the Feds want this wrapped up.  I bet the refuge is frantic right now.


If history has taught us anything, they should get out of there before the feds gas, bomb or burn them out.

----------


## TomtheTinker

What I know there is a very small minority of people in this country who are sick of what's happening all around them. I wouldn't be surprised if situations like this become more common. I don't know the details or the legalities of this situation but am very sympathetic to these men. Also do know from my own research that the original situation in nevada, that the bundy family had some legit grevionces.

----------


## phill4paul

> Les Zaitz ‏@LesZaitz  11m11 minutes ago
> Occupier Jason Patrick at the refuge: We’re all standing here ready to defend our peaceful resolution.


https://twitter.com/LesZaitz

----------


## CaptainAmerica

It happened in the middle of no where I am assuming? 70 miles away from the meeting they were headed to. 


lets take a look back down memory lame :
Waco Texas
Ruby Ridge
Ed and Elaine Brown NH (recent years)

is there anything the FBI ,federal marshalls and paramilitary $#@!s won't do? $#@! every one of them

----------


## CaptainAmerica

the PAIUTE tribe is going to be used as a proxy mouth piece to turn the protestors into pure 100 percent evil whitey villain...thats exactly whats happening right now in the media, despite the PAIUTE tribe's artifacts being locked up by federal government as "crime scene evidence" and rotting in mice feces.

----------


## FrancisMarion

> All of them are facing federal felony charges of conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties, through the use of force, intimidation or threats.


Hmmmm.

----------


## pcosmar

> is there anything the FBI ,federal marshalls and paramilitary $#@!s won't do? $#@! every one of them


they didn't want their "discussion" recorded by media?

----------


## 69360

> It happened in the middle of no where I am assuming? 70 miles away from the meeting they were headed to. 
> 
> 
> lets take a look back down memory lame :
> Waco Texas
> Ruby Ridge
> Ed and Elaine Brown NH (recent years)
> 
> is there anything the FBI ,federal marshalls and paramilitary $#@!s won't do? $#@! every one of them


I think it's very possible the feds will raid the place and kill more people. There are very few consequences when they overstep athority. The fed who killed Randy Weaver's wife was indicted but the case was dropped The Weavers did get a settlement from the feds, but money isn't justice.

----------


## Danke

> If history has taught us anything, they should get out of there before the feds gas, bomb or burn them out.

----------


## Dianne

So we have about 320 million people living in the United States.   So each of us owns 320-millionths (not even accounting for all the non U.S. citizens in the country).   So why are these people being removed when they own a fraction of the land.   The Federal Government doesn't own $#@!.    We the people own the property.    As long as you believe the Feds own chit, and it doesn't belong to you and I................ we are f'ked.

Get it through your head, the Feds are our servants.    They own nothing.   We the people all have a divisible interest in all property the Federal Government calls its own.

----------


## phill4paul

With the Feds moving in on the refuge and the occupiers refusing to back down I suppose we will find out if the O.K.s and III% were all bluster about "No more Free Wacos."
Since I haven't heard anything from the III% and I'm assuming they've gone dark and are moving into positions even now. I pray so.

----------


## phill4paul

BREAKING:

Update: Talk Network Executive Producer Dean Ryan just spoke to Deb Jordan.. Pete Santilli co-host. She said Lavoy Finicum was shot cold blooded and un-armed.
Pete Santilli was arrested after pleaing with the FBI to allow him to set up a convoy to save the women and children in the refuge.
Deb told Dean Ryan that Feds are arresting everybody and fears they will shoot all inside refuge including women & children
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...22296034548265

----------


## Dianne

Well I own 360 millionth of that land, and I was never asked if I wanted them removed..    Were you?

----------


## pcosmar

Robert 'LaVoy' Finicum

Dead.

Shot three times with his hands on his head.

It was no gunfight. it was an ambush.

----------


## phill4paul

LaVoyandjeanette Finicum
2 mins · 
This is LaVoy Finicums daughter, Thara Tenney posting this. Please share.

LaVoy Finicum's Stand For Freedom
13 mins · Eagle Mountain, UT · 
LaVoy Finicum has been murdered. LaVoy's hands were in the air and he was shot in the face. Ammon Bundy reported there were 6 witneses. This evil doing must be told to everyone.

https://www.facebook.com/lavoy.finicum

----------


## Dianne

What a bunch of terrorist bastards.     Obama, kiss my f'king ass.

----------


## unknown

The Feds didnt have to shoot nor kill those men.

Those boys know how to handle a firearm, the fact that no one on .gov's side was injured tells me that it was completely one sided.  

Theyre being charged with impeding federal officers.  This is the sheriff's fault for allowing federal officers into his jurisdiction n the first place.

----------


## pcosmar

> With the Feds moving in on the refuge and the occupiers refusing to back down I suppose we will find out if the O.K.s and III% were all bluster about "No more Free Wacos."
> Since I haven't heard anything from the III% and I'm assuming they've gone dark and are moving into positions even now. I pray so.


I am wondering a number of things,, including how Fed controlled the militias are.

Where is the over watch ?

----------


## sparebulb

Are there any livestreams or reliable twitters going right now?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I understand emotions are very high but let's please keep this civil. Thank you.


I would spit on a red coat as well.

Their roads must be nicely paved.

----------


## JK/SEA

here's a better live stream...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUl_TEtV-3w

----------


## phill4paul

Found something on Brandon Curtiss the Oregon III%'er that seemed to be leading what was going on....

  ****UPDATE****
I want to clear up the question that keeps coming up, we are being asked why there was not a convoy or why the security buffer in place. The individuals in the refuge provided themselves with their own security and we always tried to maintain additional security as well, however, we were not aware they were traveling or enroute otherwise we certainly would have had additional security in place. Please understand this is a difficult time for many and this is not the time to point fingers.
LikeShare

https://www.facebook.com/brandon.curtiss.90

----------


## phill4paul

> Authorities arrested Ammon Bundy, leader of the armed protesters who took over a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, and several of his followers in a traffic stop Tuesday, officials said.
> 
> One of the occupiers -- LaVoy Finicum -- was killed during the arrest, a law enforcement official said.
> 
> The official said when two vehicles were stopped, everyone obeyed orders to surrender except for two people: Finicum and Bundy's brother, Ryan Bundy.
> 
> Shots were fired, but it's not known who fired first, the official said. The official said Ryan Bundy was injured.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/26/us/ore...inkId=20700784

----------


## pcosmar

> http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/26/us/ore...inkId=20700784


I had heard it was Ryan Payne that was shot and in critical condition. Still sorting.

and waiting for the "what next?"

----------


## phill4paul

> I had heard it was Ryan Payne that was shot and in critical condition. Still sorting.
> 
> and waiting for the "what next?"


  Yeah, it's always mixed reports this early in an incident. All I know is they killed LaVoy Finicum. That's been confirmed.

----------


## pcosmar

> Yeah, it's always mixed reports this early in an incident. All I know is they killed LaVoy Finicum. That's been confirmed.


Seems Ryan Bundy Shot too.  the two confused initially..

Shooting Ryan is not going to go over well..

----------


## phill4paul

> Seems Ryan Bundy Shot too.  the two confused initially..
> 
> Shooting Ryan is not going to go over well..


  Will get the "official" announcement tomorrow after they have had the time to get the spin in....




> Les Zaitz ‏@LesZaitz  9s9 seconds ago
> U.S. Atty, FBI SAC, sheriff to hold news conference at 10:30 am Pacific Wednesday regarding occupation arrests and shooting.

----------


## twomp

> If history has taught us anything, they should get out of there before the feds gas, bomb or burn them out.


Dying for something you believe in is very hard for police worshippers like you to understand. If you were alive during the Revolutionary war, you would have been packing your bags for England where its safe. I actually wouldn't be surprised if you let the police have their way with your children, provided they ask nicely.

----------


## pcosmar

> Are there any livestreams or reliable twitters going right now?


Santilli was arrested,, but his stream is still going..

not much news though.

----------


## ZENemy

Two men are senselessly killed, but hey at least we have roads right?

----------


## sparebulb

> Two men are senselessly killed, but hey at least we have roads right?


Who is the second man killed?

----------


## phill4paul

> Two men are senselessly killed, but hey at least we have roads right?


  At this point only one. LaVoy Finicum. I don't have much hope that he will be the only one.

----------


## phill4paul

> On Tuesday, after the FBI and Oregon state police arrested six of his comrades following deadly shootout, notorious Islamophobe Jon Ritzheimer (a.k.a. the angry dildo man) turned himself in to the Peoria, Arizona, police department.
> 
>   Earlier in the evening, following the arrests in Oregon, Ritzheimer, wrote on Facebook, “I came home to visit my family. The Feds know I am here and are asking me to turn myself in.”
> 
> “I just want the country to live by the Constitution and I just want the government to abide by it,” he wrote. He also asked for donations to help pay for an attorney.
> 
> Ritzheimer faces the same charge as the six other militants arrested on Tuesday: conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation, or threats.


http://gawker.com/anti-muslim-activi...pie-1755363923

----------


## jonhowe

$10 says any body cameras at the scene malfunctioned.

----------


## JK/SEA

its over.

----------


## puppetmaster

Damn.  This over a small fire. $#@! the feds Rand as president will pardon them from this injustice

----------


## JK/SEA

> Damn.  This over a small fire. $#@! the feds Rand as president will pardon them from this injustice


from your lips to Gods ear.

----------


## Weston White

> Is that right?
> 
> I suppose I don't see the glory in getting offed by the Feds over an occupation the Oregon family did not want.
> 
> Choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day.


"Glory"?  Is this what you think this is about--glory?  What up and smell the smelling salt.  This is about petitioning "the government for a redress of grievances".  Their grand jury have failed them, their courts and jury of their peers have failed them, their representatives have failed them, their administration of justice have failed them, their impartial press have failed them--what else is left?

Meanwhile, it has come out that the BLM is on video busting jokes about the small sum of remaining lands they have to take and how much they have acquest thus far and how the remaining ranchers should be very worried.  And of potential evidence that local officials are implicated in orchestrating valuable land resources to private and foreign entities.

Living to wisely fight another day, is this the "glory" you envision in your own mind?  I have news for you dude, you are living not by a code of glory, but by a code of despotism, and not to wisely fight another day, but to be mindlessly subdued for another day.

Read our American Declaration and become neither glory-struck nor patriotic, but become inspired--be a freeman.  Going along to get along is for chattels and peons.

----------


## ZENemy

> Who is the second man killed?


Yeah my bad, I was misinformed.

----------


## pcosmar

> its over.


I don't think so.

But anyone who did not expect the violence to come from the government is both ignorant and foolish.

Those who expected violence from the "militants".. you are probably too stupid to be educated.

----------


## pcosmar

Cincinnatian Peter Santilli arrested in Oregon standoff
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...doff/79386528/

Same charges as the rest.

Waco Texas all over again.  

this is what happen when people have guns they are unwilling to use..

First Amendment gone too

----------


## sparebulb

My grim prediction is that in the next few days, EVERY GOP candidate will be trying to out cop/fedsuck the other to praise this outcome.

Rand might be the lone exception.....

Which will result is further loss of support from Boobus.

----------


## Weston White

A shootout:




> a fight in which people shoot guns at each other until one side is killed or defeated

----------


## sparebulb

> A shootout:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a fight in which people shoot guns at each other until one side is killed or defeated


That's not what it means in Newspeak.

----------


## JK/SEA

''Lavoy Finicum exited the vehicle, dropped to his knees with his hands on his head and repeated 3 times he was unarmed. Shot 3 times by FBI. '' Aamon Bundy to his wife.

un-comfirmed report.

tomorrow would have been Lavoy's birthday.

----------


## TheTexan

> A shootout:


Did Bundy & crew even have guns?  I don't see anything in CNN about them having guns.  Maybe CNN chose to leave that detail out, in the interest of objective & unbiased reporting.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> It would have gone a lot easier if he would have just broke into the jail.


To rescue two men who didn't want saving?

We knew this would happen. Bundy should have left when they said more than half the people in that area either worked for the federal wildlife agencies or personally knew someone who did. He should have left when the Hammonds turned themselves in without a whimper. He should have left when he made his point and the Committee of Safety which he helped establish asked him to leave. 

Now we have some good patriots in jail because they wasted their stand on people who embrace their own shackles.

----------


## Weston White

> At this point only one. LaVoy Finicum. I don't have much hope that he will be the only one.


Interesting:




> Finicum and Blaine Cooper, two of the more outspoken members of the anti-government occupation, said federal authorities pressured Arizona child-welfare officials to retaliate against them days after the siege began. . . . Non-profit tax records show that before joining the standoff, Finicum collected hundreds of thousands of dollars in state subsidies caring for foster children at his former ranch in Paulden and his new one near Colorado City.


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...sted/79380650/

----------


## Weston White

> That's not what it means in Newspeak.


The FBI and state police shooting at the subjects of an arrest for being uncooperative is not a so-called, shootout, and that is in everyday plain, whatever, English speak.

----------


## Weston White

> Did Bundy & crew even have guns?  I don't see anything in CNN about them having guns.  Maybe CNN chose to leave that detail out, in the interest of objective & unbiased reporting.


Nope, they ALL have been making it very, extremely, clear and apparent in each of their FBI contacts that they were ALL unarmed, they are looking only towards peaceful resolution.

----------


## TheTexan

> Did Bundy & crew even have guns?  I don't see anything in CNN about them having guns.  Maybe CNN chose to leave that detail out, in the interest of objective & unbiased reporting.


This detail seems to be conspicuously missing from all the news stories?

Oh well, it's probably safe to assume that the militants were indeed carrying weapons.  I mean, they are militants after all.

Probably assault weapons.  Automatic, maybe.  But the weapons were definitely black.  Or so I assume, given the lack of information.

----------


## Weston White

> To rescue two men who didn't want saving?
> 
> We knew this would happen. Bundy should have left when they said more than half the people in that area either worked for the federal wildlife agencies or personally knew someone who did. He should have left when the Hammonds turned themselves in without a whimper. He should have left when he made his point and the Committee of Safety which he helped establish asked him to leave. 
> 
> Now we have some good patriots in jail because they wasted their stand on people who embrace their own shackles.


But this is a national issue, the feds, through the BLM claims proprietorship of 50% or more of all Western states.

----------


## TheTexan

> Nope, they ALL have been making it very, extremely, clear and apparent in each of their FBI contacts that they were ALL unarmed, they are looking only towards peaceful resolution.


I guess they mistook the man's unarmed hands over his head for semi-automatic assault weapons.

Its an easy mistake to make.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...sted/79380650/


 Also: http://theweek.com/speedreads/597546...k-federal-loan

*Oregon standoff leader Ammon Bundy once took out a federal loan*




> Ammon Bundy runs a Phoenix-based company called Valet Fleet Services LLC, which specializes in repairing and maintaining fleets of semitrucks throughout Arizona. On April 15, 2010  Tax Day, as it happens  Bundy's business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program. The available public record does not indicate what the loan was used for or whether it was repaid. The SBA website notes that this loan guarantee was issued under a program "to aid small businesses which are unable to obtain financing in the private credit marketplace." The government estimated that this subsidy could cost taxpayers $22,419. Bundy did not respond to an email request for comment about the SBA loan. [Mother Jones]

----------


## sparebulb

> This detail seems to be conspicuously missing from all the news stories?
> 
> Oh well, it's probably safe to assume that the militants were indeed carrying weapons.  I mean, they are militants after all.
> 
> Probably assault weapons.  Automatic, maybe.  But the weapons were definitely black.  Or so I assume, given the lack of information.


Officers can't take the chance that they aren't armed.

After all, they were known terrorists.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> But this is a national issue, the feds, through the BLM claims proprietorship of 50% or more of all Western states.


Sure, so start with the parts of that 50% involving residents in the area who actually _want_ the land returned to the people. Looks like folks can cross Oregon off that list. May their chains rest lightly and all that. 

GunnyFreedom was right, and I say that as someone who initially thought some good would come out of this. It was a fool's errand for these folks to undertake a fight on behalf of people who didn't want one.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Also: http://theweek.com/speedreads/597546...k-federal-loan
> 
> *Oregon standoff leader Ammon Bundy once took out a federal loan*


irrelevant to the topic at hand. Try and keep up.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Also: http://theweek.com/speedreads/597546...k-federal-loan
> 
> *Oregon standoff leader Ammon Bundy once took out a federal loan*




Did he drive on muh roads, too?

----------


## JK/SEA

> Sure, so start with the parts of that 50% involving residents in the area who actually _want_ the land returned to the people. Looks like folks can cross Oregon off that list. May their chains rest lightly and all that. 
> 
> GunnyFreedom was right, and I say that as someone who initially thought some good would come out of this. It was a fool's errand for these folks to undertake a fight on behalf of people who didn't want one.


well, Gunny was wrong, and so are you. This has been explained as to the reasons ad naseum.

----------


## sparebulb

> Also: http://theweek.com/speedreads/597546...k-federal-loan
> 
> *Oregon standoff leader Ammon Bundy once took out a federal loan*


I have it on good authority that Ammon Bundy once purchased a stamp and mailed a letter, causing the taxpayer to lose money by subsidizing his private business.

----------


## Weston White

> Sure, so start with the parts of that 50% involving residents in the area who actually _want_ the land returned to the people. Looks like folks can cross Oregon off that list. May their chains rest lightly and all that. 
> 
> GunnyFreedom was right, and I say that as someone who initially thought some good would come out of this. It was a fool's errand for these folks to undertake a fight on behalf of people who didn't want one.


No, GunnyFreedom could be only a little more wrong.  And this is a national issue, all portions are unified.  The people in Oregon are, sadly, blinded by their reliance, nay, their subjugation by the federal government.

See: Bundys Urge Oregon Ranchers To Tear Up Grazing Contracts

----------


## sparebulb

Allegedly, fed convoy of vehicles and armor staged at the airport are on the move to the reserve.

They might just decide to end this before anyone else shows up.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LaurenKTV...33801745993728

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Guys it isn't a big deal. Walking Dead will be back on Feb 14, this doesn't effect anything.

----------


## sparebulb

Here is a channel where a guy has been posting short videos from within the refuge.

He says all the children have left, with the exception of a pregnant woman.

The comments from the fedbots on these videos are disgusting.

https://www.youtube.com/user/DefendYourBase

----------


## Weston White

Only By Blood and Suffering Paperback – Unabridged, 2015 by LAVOY FINICUM:




> Tells of a family's struggle to come together and survive in the midst of national crisis. A stirring, fast-paced novel about what matters most in the face of devastating end-times chaos. Filled with gripping action and relatable characters, readers are drawn into the heart-rending dilemmas each member of the Bonham family faces. You may even find yourself stopping to ask, "What would I do?" LaVoy Finicum is a real life Northern Arizona Rancher who loves nothing more in life than God, freedom, and family. His spine tingling storytelling conveys in graphic detail just how fragile and precious freedom truly is and leaves his readers with an increased desire to stand for freedom

----------


## ghengis86

Great. I have to fly into Portland in a couple hours. This is going to be a $#@! show for a variety of reasons.

----------


## sparebulb

Livestream up now!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_cM8kmzxK0

----------


## dannno

> Livestream up now!!!!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_cM8kmzxK0


It's like the Blair Witch Project, lol... just hoping I don't see anything _too_ exciting..

----------


## sparebulb

ABC is reporting the first version from sources in law enforcement saying that they killed a person who shot at them first.

Let's just see how long that story holds up.

----------


## ghengis86

> ABC is reporting the first version from sources in law enforcement saying that they killed a person who shot at them first.
> 
> Let's just see how long that story holds up.


It only has to hold up for a few minutes, then the people will forget about it and never see the quiet correction issued next week.

----------


## tod evans

Mutherr$#@!! 

Ain't nuthin' else to put in print......

----------


## tod evans

Propaganda worded very carefully;

*Oregon militia leader Ammon Bundy, 7 others arrested after gunfight kills 1, injures 1*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/27...injures-1.html

The leader of a group of armed protesters who had occupied a federal wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon for 24 days was arrested along with four others Tuesday after a traffic stop prompted gunfire that left one person dead and another injured.

The FBI and Oregon State Police arrested Ammon Bundy, 40, his brother Ryan, 43, Brian Cavalier, 44, Shawna Cox, 59, and Ryan Payne, 32, at around 4:25 p.m. local time on U.S. Highway 395.

Three other people were arrested separately. The FBI said Joseph O'Shaughnessy, 45, and Peter Santilli, 50, were arrested in the nearby town of Burns, Ore. Hours later, authorities said Jon Ritzheimer, 32, turned himself into the Peoria, Ariz. police department.

The FBI said all eight face a federal felony charge of conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation or threats.

Neither the FBI nor Oregon State Police released details about what set off the gunfire at the traffic stop. One of those arrested, described only as a man, suffered non-life-threatening wounds and was treated at a hospital, the agencies said. 

Another man "who was a subject of a federal probable cause arrest" was killed in the shootout. The Oregonian reported that the deceased man was 55-year-old Robert Finicum. The paper cited Finicum's daughter in making the identification. Authorities said no other information about the deceased would be released pending formal identification by the local medical examiner's office.

The protesters were heading to a public meeting in the town of John Day, about 70 miles north of Burns, to address local residents about the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge when the traffic stop took place, law enforcement officials told Fox News.

The Oregonian newspaper reported several hundred people had gathered at the John Day Senior Center on Tuesday evening and were told the "guest speakers" would not be appearing.

The Harney County Hospital in Burns was placed on lockdown out of concern that the protesters may cause a disturbance there. 

Ammon Bundy's group, calling itself the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, seized the refuge's headquarters on Jan. 2 in protest of what they viewed as onerous federal land restrictions, as well as the prison sentences of two local ranchers convicted of setting fires. Law enforcement officers converged on the wildlife refuge after the arrests and were expected to remain at the site throughout the night; it was unclear how many people, if any, remained in the buildings.

Ammon and Ryan Bundy are the sons of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a high-profile 2014 standoff with the government over grazing rights.

Many residents of Harney County, where the refuge is located, have been among those demanding that Bundy leave. Many sympathize with his criticism of federal land management policies of public lands but opposed the refuge takeover. They feared violence could erupt.

Ammon Bundy recently had begun traveling into Grant County to try to drum up more sympathy for his cause.

"I am pleased that the FBI has listened to the concerns of the local community and responded to the illegal activity occurring in Harney County by outside extremists," Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., said in a written statement. "The leaders of this group are now in custody and I hope that the remaining individuals occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge will peacefully surrender so this community can begin to heal the deep wounds that this illegal activity has created over the last month."

The state police said it would investigate the officer-involved shooting, with help from the Deschutes County Major Incident Team and the Harney County District Attorney's Office.

----------


## 69360

> Dying for something you believe in is very hard for police worshippers like you to understand. If you were alive during the Revolutionary war, you would have been packing your bags for England where its safe. I actually wouldn't be surprised if you let the police have their way with your children, provided they ask nicely.


You are going too far with personal attacks and being offensive.

I would make a stand and fight to defend my own property from the government. I would not however travel across the country to take over a tourist center and die defending it.




> Cincinnatian Peter Santilli arrested in Oregon standoff
> http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...doff/79386528/
> 
> Same charges as the rest.
> 
> Waco Texas all over again.  
> 
> this is what happen when people have guns they are unwilling to use..
> 
> First Amendment gone too


I think there a major distinction between this and actions like Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Browns and the Bundys at their ranch. They were defending their own property. In this case this group went across the country and took over a tourist center when the aggrieved family did not want them there.

----------


## tod evans

Focusing on the where discounts the why.

----------


## goldenequity

*Videos:* convoy eyewitness account

https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconn...2/?pnref=story

https://www.facebook.com/melvin.lee....94937370539445

*Cliven (father) account of:* Ammon's 2 Phone calls from scene: to his wife, to his friend

----------


## UWDude

The grand jury has reviewed the evidence, and found that procedures were followed.

----------


## Weston White

> "I am pleased that the FBI has listened to the concerns of the local community and responded to the illegal activity occurring in Harney County by outside extremists," Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., said in a written statement. "The leaders of this group are now in custody and I hope that the remaining individuals occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge will peacefully surrender so this community can begin to heal the deep wounds that this illegal activity has created over the last month."


Sen. Jeff Merkley is no statesman, where was he in all of this?  With the governor sitting back afar, moaning for the FBI to intervene.  What justice do you bring your constituents by discounting the causation of this entire incident?  Moreover, where is your resolution for preventing future occurrences?  Oh, yes, infringing the Second Amendment, is that it, is that all you've got?

Listened to the concerns of the local community, while further disenfranchising your own ranchers and farmers in the process?

Begin to heal the deep wounds that were created by this call to redress grievances?  Are you freaking kidding?  Seriously, are you?

Yes, peacefully surrender under the threat of heavily armed federal thugs.  That solves it all, just right, is that it?



...That is what I thought.

----------


## goldenequity

*Ammon Bundy's Last Talk with FBI* (hours before Arrest) 1/26/16

----------


## Weston White

> I think there a major distinction between this and actions like Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Browns and the Bundys at their ranch. They were defending their own property. In this case this group went across the country and took over a tourist center when the aggrieved family did not want them there.


They capitalized on an incident to bring attention to their own directly related situation, both which are national--as this affects more than a single state.  Do you think the feds give a crap if you write them letters from the safety of your home office?  You will simply be ignored or blown off with a canned response.  They do not care about you or your concerns.  You are less than a whisper in a crowded stadium to them.

The "aggrieved family" has no direct involvement with the BLM's offices--and regardless they are under duress by the feds, so of course they are not going to speak against their captors.

And they did not go across the country, they drove over to the adjacent state.

So, what is your alternative?  A mass hunger-strike?

----------


## phill4paul

Here is an account from the driver of the vehicle that Finicum was not in. This information he says he received directly from Payne. He details that Finicum charged the Feds but there is no mention of being armed or of firing. 





> BURNS – Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, the spokesman of the refuge occupation, was shot and killed after he charged police during a roadside stop north of Burns on Tuesday, according to a man on Facebook who claims to be the driver of one of two vehicles involved in the highway shooting.
> 
> Mark McConnell posted a video to Facebook Wednesday morning, recounting the Tuesday afternoon scene that led to Finicum's death and the subsequent arrest of eight people involved in the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> His account emerged as police established new checkpoints on roads leading to the refuge, where an unknown number of occupiers remained. Police said only local property owners would be allowed through. The number and exact location of the checkpoints couldn't immediately be established.
> 
> Seven of those arrested Tuesday were taken overnight to Portland, where they were booked into the Multnomah County Detention Center.
> 
> They included Ammon E. Bundy, 40, of Emmett, Idaho; his brother, Ryan C. Bundy of Bunkerville, Nevada; Ryan W. Payne, 32, of Anaconda, Montana; Brian Cavalier, 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada; Shawna J. Cox, 59, of Kanab, Utah; Joseph D. Oshaughnessy, 43, of Cottonwood, Arizona; and Peter T. Santilli, 50, of Cinncinati.
> ...


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...rt_maj-story-1


  The FB link of the video: https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconn...48?pnref=story

  ETA: From the second video it seems Ryan Bundy wasn't shot but was hit by shrapnel.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> They capitalized on an incident to bring attention to their own directly related situation, both which are national--as this affects more than a single state.  Do you think the feds give a crap if you write them letters from the safety of your home office?  You will simply be ignored or blown off with a canned response.  They do not care about you or your concerns.  You are less than a whisper in a crowded stadium to them.
> 
> The "aggrieved family" has no direct involvement with the BLM's offices--and regardless they are under duress by the feds, so of course they are not going to speak against their captors.
> 
> And they did not go across the country, they drove over to the adjacent state.
> 
> So, what is your alternative?  A mass hunger-strike?


The alternative is to help those who are willing to help themselves.

----------


## vita3

I wonder who killed LaVoy Finicum & if he was really hands up & on his knees, shouldn't the shooter be prosecuted?

----------


## tod evans

> I wonder who killed LaVoy Finicum & if he was really hands up & on his knees, shouldn't the shooter be prosecuted?


By whom?

The same government that shot him......

----------


## goldenequity

> I wonder who killed LaVoy Finicum & if he was really hands up & on his knees, shouldn't the shooter be prosecuted?


The Oregon State Police have filed it as "*Officer Involved Shooting* Investigation Underway In Harney County"
https://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1002

The road block involved both FBI and OSP.

----------


## Badger Paul

_"What justice do you bring your constituents by discounting the causation of this entire incident?"
_
You mean the half of the county that works for the BLM or other federal agencies or how about the employees at wildlife refuge who couldn't get to their jobs because these yahoos took over the main building? What about the Hammonds who didn't want them there in the first place. Take your pick. 

These guys wanted a confrontation with the Feds, they practically begged for it, and they got their wish. One dead and the rest in jail. Some revolution.

When the next stand-off over Federal lands takes place, may please our militia symps take their activities to another website so RPF doesn't get smeared as a militia hub site. Luckily for Rand he's so low in the polls no one bothered to notice. Believe me it would have been different otherwise This is a site for political activism, not bunker plotting.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Of the two different "live" feeds, one before dawn and one is after dawn??

----------


## phill4paul

> [I]
> You mean the half of the county that works for the BLM or other federal agencies or how about the employees at wildlife refuge who couldn't get to their jobs because these yahoos took over the main building?


  Am I supposed to shed a tear about now?

----------


## goldenequity

*Newest Updated:*
LIVE streaming @ Refuge Center 




(old 'live link' now archived)

----------


## ghengis86

> I wonder who killed LaVoy Finicum & if he was really hands up & on his knees, shouldn't the shooter be prosecuted?


Lon did it (again).

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Watching the live feed it seems like these guys are already accepting their death.  That means that the goons better be ready to die as well.  I'm sure these military trained men are prepared for the usual goon tactics and have some counter actions prepared...  Sorry to see it end this way but goons never stop when their "authority" is challenged...

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Sunrise in Oregon is 7:37 and current time there is 7:30...

----------


## phill4paul

> Watching the live feed it seems like these guys are already accepting their death.  That means that the goons better be ready to die as well.  I'm sure these military trained men are prepared for the usual goon tactics and have some counter actions prepared...  Sorry to see it end this way but goons never stop when their "authority" is challenged...


  It's a cluster just like it's been from the beginning. Ryan Payne was supposedly the Tac Ops. Why they would ever put all their leadership in one convoy away from the refuge is beyond me.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> _"What justice do you bring your constituents by discounting the causation of this entire incident?"
> _
> You mean the half of the county that works for the BLM or other federal agencies or how about the employees at wildlife refuge who couldn't get to their jobs because these yahoos took over the main building? What about the Hammonds who didn't want them there in the first place. Take your pick. 
> 
> These guys wanted a confrontation with the Feds, they practically begged for it, and they got their wish. One dead and the rest in jail. Some revolution.
> 
> When the next stand-off over Federal lands takes place, may please our militia symps take their activities to another website so RPF doesn't get smeared as a militia hub site. Luckily for Rand he's so low in the polls no one bothered to notice. Believe me it would have been different otherwise This is a site for political activism, not bunker plotting.


It's no secret that I thought this specific op was a bad idea from the start, but this is just stupid, and smacks of gloating over the death of a patriotic American who at least _thought_ he was doing right.

----------


## phill4paul

> Sunrise in Oregon is 7:37 and current time there is 7:30...


  There is supposed to be a FBI SAC news conference this morning at 10:30 AM. I don't think they will move until after. My guess is that at the presser they will call for a peaceful end from those inside the refuge before swarming. That way they can claim "Hey, we tried to end this peacefully."

----------


## Weston White

> The alternative is to help those who are willing to help themselves.


Hello! They are helping themselves, along with their fellow ranchers.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Live stream is dead...

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Live stream is dead...


Was about to point out the same.  Looks like all the streams are shuttered.

----------


## Ender

> _"What justice do you bring your constituents by discounting the causation of this entire incident?"
> _
> You mean the half of the county that works for the BLM or other federal agencies or how about the employees at wildlife refuge who couldn't get to their jobs because these yahoos took over the main building? What about the Hammonds who didn't want them there in the first place. Take your pick. 
> 
> These guys wanted a confrontation with the Feds, they practically begged for it, and they got their wish. One dead and the rest in jail. Some revolution.
> 
> When the next stand-off over Federal lands takes place, may please our militia symps take their activities to another website so RPF doesn't get smeared as a militia hub site. Luckily for Rand he's so low in the polls no one bothered to notice. Believe me it would have been different otherwise This is a site for political activism, not bunker plotting.


So. What.

Most of Boston didn't approve the Boston Tea Party. How many "Muricans actually fought in the Revolution? Most didn't want it- now we praise them. And, if it was Trump supporting this, mundanes would clapping and saying Yee Haw!

It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree? 

And if this can happen to the Hammonds, whose next? How long before anyone who commits even a minor offense can be put in jail 2-3-4-100 times if the alphabets decide it?

Everyone screams for change but when a few do something, then 99% complain and disparage.

This has never been more appropriate:

----------


## JK/SEA

so i guess we're just going to wait and watch as these patriots get killed, shake our heads and tell ourselves this was  an ill advised op, and tune in to American Idol tonight with the pop corn and drinks...move along, nothing to see here...

----------


## pcosmar

historic memory jog

*Ludlow Massacre*

Ludlow Massacre - Birthplace of Public Relations
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2906

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

Let the spin begin.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> so i guess we're just going to wait and watch as these patriots get killed, shake our heads and tell ourselves this was  an ill advised op, and tune in to American Idol tonight with the pop corn and drinks...move along, nothing to see here...


Only now we have to pick apart the "official" story of what happens.  There is not going to be the "other side" for us to hear...

----------


## phill4paul

> so i guess we're just going to wait and watch as these patriots get killed, shake our heads and tell ourselves this was  an ill advised op, and tune in to American Idol tonight with the pop corn and drinks...move along, nothing to see here...


  What do you suggest?

----------


## Lucille

http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-o...ds-in-the-air/




> _I want the world to know how my father was murdered today. His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are 6 witnesses to this evil._
> Posted by Thara Tenney on Tuesday, January 26, 2016
> 
> Her testimony was echoed by another eyewitness, Victoria Sharp, who was in the car with Finicum when the group were pulled over by cops and federal agents. Sharp claims that Finicum put his hands out of the car window and asked the police to allow the women to leave the car.
> 
> They shot at him, but they missed him, said Sharp, adding that the group then attempted to drive away in the car but were shot at again by police.
> 
> When we crashed and stopped for a second, he got out of the car, he had his hands in the air, hes like just shoot me then.and they did, they shot him dead, said Sharp.
> 
> ...


The Feds accommodate Ammon Bundy and give him his John-Brown-at-Harper's-Ferry moment, and we get to make a choice. 
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...bundy-and.html

----------


## phill4paul

> http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-o...ds-in-the-air/
> 
> 
> 
> The Feds accommodate Ammon Bundy and give him his John-Brown-at-Harper's-Ferry moment, and we get to make a choice. 
> http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...bundy-and.html


  I wonder who Victoria Sharp is. Possibly the 16 yr. old that was in the vehicle?

----------


## JK/SEA

> What do you suggest?


wait and watch, because there isn't going to be any back up from any militia groups. That much is certain.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> so i guess we're just going to wait and watch as these patriots get killed, shake our heads and tell ourselves this was  an ill advised op, and tune in to American Idol tonight with the pop corn and drinks...move along, nothing to see here...


I don't understand this. If the people who thought this op was a good idea can't be bothered to go and do anything, then why do you think the people who thought it was a bad idea should do more than those?  I mean, you thought the op was a good idea, and I don't see you picking up a rifle and rolling into battle, but you want the people who thought it was a bad idea to go and die in your place?  

I don't understand this position of yours at all.

----------


## pcosmar

> What do you suggest?


It can't be suggested.

but a soft spoken man, Rancher, family man,, and supporter of the Constitution was just murdered for his support of that.

to send a message.

Do you get it?

----------


## Badger Paul

The Weather Underground thought they were doing the right thing too.
_
"It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?"_

I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated but taking control of a Federal building by people who have no connection to the family or anyone else in the area and just looking for trouble and disrupting innocent people's lives in the process isn't going to help the situation and just makes things worse.  

I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.

----------


## phill4paul

> It can't be suggested.
> 
> but a soft spoken man, Rancher, family man,, and supporter of the Constitution was just murdered for his support of that.
> 
> to send a message.
> 
> Do you get it?


  Certainly. But, I'm not sitting behind a key board and admonishing everyone else for doing nothing while...doing nothing. I believed this op was ill planned from the beginning. What idiot decides to remove the entire leadership from the refuge and put them in a convoy with a known destination?

----------


## phill4paul

> The Weather Underground thought they were doing the right thing too.
> _
> "It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?"_
> 
> I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated but taking control of a Federal building by people who have no connection to the family or anyone else in the area and just looking for trouble and disrupting innocent people's lives in the process isn't going to help the situation and just makes things worse.  
> 
> I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.


  I DON'T believe in the process and you're a fool if you do. And I'll stay right here despite your belief that you are the director of all  things RPF's.

----------


## goldenequity

*Newest Updated:*
LIVE streaming @ Refuge Center 




(old 'live link' now archived)

----------


## pcosmar

> . Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.


Just what process is that?

The Law of the Land. The Constitution provides for such process,, when necessary..
It is the bottom line.



> The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or* to the people.*


bottom line is who has the say.. the people.

----------


## RJB

> Certainly. But, I'm not sitting behind a key board and admonishing everyone else for doing nothing while...doing nothing. I believed this op was ill planned from the beginning. What idiot decides to remove the entire leadership from the refuge and put them in a convoy with a known destination?


The natives had a bad habit of trusting the treaty makers as well.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> The Weather Underground thought they were doing the right thing too.
> _
> "It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?"_
> 
> I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated but taking control of a Federal building by people who have no connection to the family or anyone else in the area and just looking for trouble and disrupting innocent people's lives in the process isn't going to help the situation and just makes things worse.  
> 
> I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is *you either believe in the process or you don't* and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.


Have you been in a coma for the last 15 years? "The process" has been hopelessly corrupted to the point where there is no justice left in the "justice" system.  You can be sure that the corrupt monsters with their claws into the system down to the bone will not be routed peacefully. They are thugs and monsters, and force is the only language they speak.

Eventually, to route out the corruption, it will come down to force.  Even if we won every election, and every Sheriff's office, and every DA in the country, these people will not leave peacefully.  Once they have tasted power they will not let go without a fight.  This is simply the nature of the beast.

----------


## Origanalist

> The Weather Underground thought they were doing the right thing too.
> _
> "It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?"_
> 
> I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated but taking control of a Federal building by people who have no connection to the family or anyone else in the area and just looking for trouble and disrupting innocent people's lives in the process isn't going to help the situation and just makes things worse.  
> 
> I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.


This is not your decision to make.

----------


## pcosmar

> Certainly. But, I'm not sitting behind a key board and admonishing everyone else for doing nothing while...doing nothing. I believed this op was ill planned from the beginning. What idiot decides to remove the entire leadership from the refuge and put them in a convoy with a known destination?


Had been wondering the same,, 

and the Fed infiltration is the reason for militia ineffectiveness more than anything else.

----------


## phill4paul

> Had been wondering the same,, 
> 
> and the Fed infiltration is the reason for militia ineffectiveness more than anything else.


    I've heard that Ryan Payne was supposedly the Tac Op for the refuge. If he is charged with it's defense then why the hell would he remove himself? Why put the entire leadership in a convoy with a known destination without an escort. Brandon Curtiss with the III% said that if he had been told the PPN would have provided convoy protection.

----------


## goldenequity

> I've heard that Ryan Payne was supposedly the Tac Op for the refuge. If he is charged with it's defense then why the hell would he remove himself? Why put the entire leadership in a convoy with a known destination without an escort. Brandon Curtiss with the III% said that if he had been told the PPN would have provided convoy protection.


Good point.
Have not heard from Brandon Curtiss since arrests.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I don't understand this. If the people who thought this op was a good idea can't be bothered to go and do anything, then why do you think the people who thought it was a bad idea should do more than those?  I mean, you thought the op was a good idea, and I don't see you picking up a rifle and rolling into battle, but you want the people who thought it was a bad idea to go and die in your place?  
> 
> I don't understand this position of yours at all.


you have your reasons, and i have mine.

----------


## pcosmar

> I've heard that Ryan Payne was supposedly the Tac Op for the refuge. If he is charged with it's defense then why the hell would he remove himself? Why put the entire leadership in a convoy with a known destination without an escort. Brandon Curtiss with the III% said that if he had been told the PPN would have provided convoy protection.


some of my questions,, 
several things very wrong,, but why they had no cover is a big one.
I understood that Payne was acting as personal security,, and not overall tac/ops.
something feels wrong.

----------


## phill4paul

> Good point.
> Have not heard from Brandon Curtiss since arrests.


  Not much....

https://www.facebook.com/brandon.curtiss.90?fref=ts

----------


## phill4paul

> some of my questions,, 
> several things very wrong,, but why they had no cover is a big one.
> I understood that Payne was acting as personal security,, and not overall tac/ops.
> something feels wrong.


  I think he was trying to run the whole show just like many accused him of back at the Ranch. To what purpose whether nefarious or simply egotistical I have no idea at this time.

----------


## Badger Paul

_"I DON'T believe in the process and you're a fool if you do. And I'll stay right here despite your belief that you are the director of all things RPF's. "_

I'm no director, I'm just giving you some friendly advice. Nearly 29,000 posts since 2007 on a website supposedly devoted to political activism and you're basically calling armed revolution by this point and all I can say is you've wasted your time. But, it's yours to do so.

And that goes for everyone. Do the moderators of RPF want half the posts to be about politics and the campaign and the other half consisting of takeover plots that might interest the FBI? Because that's where its headed. That's how alienated people are. They're not worried about the campaign. I don't disagree with anything that's been said about corruption or in some cases unconstitutional action. But since that's been going on in all governments and institutions since the beginning of time in all nations, shooting off your guns or taking control of a Post Office isn't going to change it. Life goes on, you make the most of it where you can and how you can legally. That's what I believe and if others disagree that's fine.  But the Paul movement and RPF in monitoring it is largely statist - because it is going through the legitimate political process and does what it does through that process and believes in that process, like it or not. If you reject that, fine. But you're wasting your time being here then. I don't want censorship but I'm not going to be a party to people's Tea Party fantasies either and as I said, I hope the website and those running it aren't smeared or harassed by it either.

----------


## goldenequity

*Latest LIVE Refuge*... sad. crazies in charge..

----------


## dannno

> I'm no director, I'm just giving you some friendly advice. Nearly 29,000 posts since 2007 on a website supposedly devoted to political activism and you're basically calling armed revolution by this point and all I can say is you've wasted your time. But, it's yours to do so.



Nah, I'm just tired of hearing some dude yammer on who thinks what the Hammond's lawyer said under threat as some sort of gospel truth about what the Hammonds actually think.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I've heard that Ryan Payne was supposedly the Tac Op for the refuge. If he is charged with it's defense then why the hell would he remove himself? Why put the entire leadership in a convoy with a known destination without an escort. Brandon Curtiss with the III% said that if he had been told the PPN would have provided convoy protection.


If what I was heard is correct, Ryan Payne has multiple gunshot wounds from the recent shootout/arrest.  

If true, while it reduces the credibility of his being a fed provocateur, it increases the possibility of his simply being an undisciplined hothead.  I obviously do not know what happened, but i would not be surprised if Payne lost his cool and LaVoy Finicum got caught in the crossfire.

----------


## dannno

> Clinton Foundation took massive payoffs, promised Hammond Ranch and other publicly owned lands to Russians along with one-fifth of our uranium ore.
> 
> https://www.intellihub.com/clinton-f...-lands-russia/


I'm dissecting this in a separate thread later, but worth the read, especially for guys like Badger Paul who seem to have no idea what is actually going on in this country.

----------


## goldenequity

*Again.*

New LIVE Refuge:

----------


## phill4paul

> _"I DON'T believe in the process and you're a fool if you do. And I'll stay right here despite your belief that you are the director of all things RPF's. "_
> 
> I'm no director, I'm just giving you some friendly advice. Nearly 29,000 posts since 2007 on a website supposedly devoted to political activism and you're basically calling armed revolution by this point and all I can say is you've wasted your time. But, it's yours to do so.
> 
> And that goes for everyone. Do the moderators of RPF want half the posts to be about politics and the campaign and the other half consisting of takeover plots that might interest the FBI? Because that's where its headed. That's how alienated people are. They're not worried about the campaign. I don't disagree with anything that's been said about corruption or in some cases unconstitutional action. But since that's been going on in all governments and institutions since the beginning of time in all nations, shooting off your guns or taking control of a Post Office isn't going to change it. Life goes on, you make the most of it where you can and how you can legally. That's what I believe and if others disagree that's fine.  But the Paul movement and RPF in monitoring it is largely statist - because it is going through the legitimate political process and does what it does through that process and believes in that process, like it or not. If you reject that, fine. But you're wasting your time being here then. I don't want censorship but I'm not going to be a party to people's Tea Party fantasies either and as I said, I hope the website and those running it aren't smeared or harassed by it either.


  I neither solicited nor care for your advise. Friendly or otherwise. Perhaps it was the activism and the result and a greater knowledge which came from it that leads me to the point of belief that a peaceful change _may_ not be possible. Doesn't mean you don't try for one and prepare for the other. This is the Ron Paul Forums. It's also the Rand Paul forums. It's also the _Liberty Forest._ There are many paths towards liberty through the forest. Simply because you believe in one and excoriate any others does not afford you the right to tell others they should leave. If you don't want to be a party to it, well...the log out button is only a mouse click away.

----------


## Weston White

> _"What justice do you bring your constituents by discounting the causation of this entire incident?"
> _
> You mean the half of the county that works for the BLM or other federal agencies or how about the employees at wildlife refuge who couldn't get to their jobs because these yahoos took over the main building? What about the Hammonds who didn't want them there in the first place. Take your pick. 
> 
> These guys wanted a confrontation with the Feds, they practically begged for it, and they got their wish. One dead and the rest in jail. Some revolution.
> 
> When the next stand-off over Federal lands takes place, may please our militia symps take their activities to another website so RPF doesn't get smeared as a militia hub site. Luckily for Rand he's so low in the polls no one bothered to notice. Believe me it would have been different otherwise This is a site for political activism, not bunker plotting.


Wow, you just added several more points that increase disfavor against the BLM and feds general.  Good job buddy.   And what difference at this point does it make if they get to their job?  None, they are stilling being paid and their job entails NOTHING of any practical consequence.

----------


## JK/SEA

badger paul is a FED.

pretty obvious.

posts $#@! just like those dildoe obsessive $#@!s in those chats on the tubes and FB.

----------


## phill4paul

> If what I was heard is correct, Ryan Payne has multiple gunshot wounds from the recent shootout/arrest.  
> 
> If true, while it reduces the credibility of his being a fed provocateur, it increases the possibility of his simply being an undisciplined hothead.  I obviously do not know what happened, but i would not be surprised if Payne lost his cool and LaVoy Finicum got caught in the crossfire.


  Negative. False reporting in the beginning. Only LaVoy was shot (and killed). Ryan Bundy received shrapnel wounds. There are two accounts of the actual shooting. One is from a driver in Ammons car that was told, second hand, by Payne that LaVoy charged the Feds. The second is from, I believe the 18 yr. old girl (I posted her interview earlier) that was in LaVoys car that said the Feds gunned him down in cold blood. Put suspicion on Payne and his account to me. Everything still in flux and we are still trying to sort it out.

----------


## Badger Paul

_"There are many paths towards liberty through the forest. Simply because you believe in one and excoriate any others does not afford you the right to tell others they should leave._"

It isn't a path to liberty. It's path to a cell or a coffin. I'm only saying what I'm saying because I don't want to see innocent people snagged by your delusions. That's why I believe a choice should be made, because you can't reconcile the two.

----------


## Badger Paul

"badger paul is a FED."

If was a Fed I wouldn't be writing what I am writing. Think about all those alleged informants inside the militias. You'll find they're not the ones calling for prudence and calm.

----------


## phill4paul

> _"There are many paths towards liberty through the forest. Simply because you believe in one and excoriate any others does not afford you the right to tell others they should leave._"
> 
> It isn't a path to liberty. It's path to a cell or a coffin. I'm only saying what I'm saying because I don't want to see innocent people snagged by your delusions. That's why I believe a choice should be made, because you can't reconcile the two.


  It most certainly _can_ be a path to liberty. It is our nations history. Or did they leave that out of your public education? If you feel so vehement then message Bryan. It is his site and I will continue to post what I choose to until he decides otherwise. No matter how much it consternates your delicate sensibilities.

----------


## Athan

> They're being brought to justice. That's what's going on.


Ah yes, "justice" a kangaroo court.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> *Latest LIVE Refuge*... sad. crazies in charge..


RIP
At least our best and brightest are not getting killed today.

----------


## twomp

> _"I DON'T believe in the process and you're a fool if you do. And I'll stay right here despite your belief that you are the director of all things RPF's. "_
> 
> I'm no director, I'm just giving you some friendly advice. Nearly 29,000 posts since 2007 on a website supposedly devoted to political activism and you're basically calling armed revolution by this point and all I can say is you've wasted your time. But, it's yours to do so.
> 
> And that goes for everyone. Do the moderators of RPF want half the posts to be about politics and the campaign and the other half consisting of takeover plots that might interest the FBI? Because that's where its headed. That's how alienated people are. They're not worried about the campaign. I don't disagree with anything that's been said about corruption or in some cases unconstitutional action. But since that's been going on in all governments and institutions since the beginning of time in all nations, shooting off your guns or taking control of a Post Office isn't going to change it. Life goes on, you make the most of it where you can and how you can legally. That's what I believe and if others disagree that's fine.  But the Paul movement and RPF in monitoring it is largely statist - because it is going through the legitimate political process and does what it does through that process and believes in that process, like it or not. If you reject that, fine. But you're wasting your time being here then. I don't want censorship but I'm not going to be a party to people's Tea Party fantasies either and as I said, I hope the website and those running it aren't smeared or harassed by it either.


This is the kind of "freedom lover" that becomes an authoritarian should he ever get into power. DO THINGS MY WAY!! Good bye "freedom lover"!!

----------


## JK/SEA

> RIP
> At least our best and brightest are not getting killed today.


subjective.

----------


## Lucille

> They're being brought to justice. That's what's going on.


"Justice," eh?  




> 2. This was totally unnecessary since the resolve of the occupiers was weakening and they were in negotiations to achieve a peaceable exit. What the hurry was is mystifying to me since the Feds negotiated with the Montana Freemen for 81 days before coming to a peaceful resolution.
> 
>     3. Our attitude was that as much as we disagreed with Ammon Bundy's choice of targets, tactics, timing and "friends" like the sociopath (and probable Fed provocateur) Ryan Payne, the Feds had a higher duty not to violate the occupiers' due process rights. 
> 
>     4. A sniper's bullet at a pre-planned roadblock is NOT due process.
> 
> 5. Such an action would not have been done without the sanction of the political leadership in the White House. Therefore we can conclude that this is, once again, the Feds making a show of the Waco logic embodied in Catch 22: "We can do anything you can't stop us from doing. We are the Imperial Feds and you WILL obey us."


Just Us.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> subjective.


emotional; based on inner experience rather than fact.

----------


## wizardwatson

> If what I was heard is correct, Ryan Payne has multiple gunshot wounds from the recent shootout/arrest.  
> 
> If true, while it reduces the credibility of his being a fed provocateur, it increases the possibility of his simply being an undisciplined hothead.  I obviously do not know what happened,* but i would not be surprised if Payne lost his cool and LaVoy Finicum got caught in the crossfire.*


Mayhaps....

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...led_while.html




> *McConnell said Payne and Cox later recounted how Payne and Finicum got into a "heated discussion" about what to do.*
> 
> "LaVoy was passionate about this, about the movement," McConnell said.
> 
> McConnell said he noticed movement, and Finicum "took off" in the pickup with the remaining passengers. He said Payne and Cox described encountering a police roadblock about a mile north on the highway and apparently tried to get around it, becoming stuck in the snow.
> 
> "When he exited the vehicle, the rear wheels were still spinning," McConnell said. "He charged at law enforcement" and was shot.
> 
> *McConnell disputed earlier accounts on social media that Finicum was shot while on his knees with his hands up.*

----------


## phill4paul

> *Latest LIVE Refuge*... sad. crazies in charge..


  I can't watch that $#@!. This is what happens when you allow the opposition to take out the entire leadership in one fell swoop.

----------


## wizardwatson

This article saying dead protester pulled a gun...

Don't know if this info has already propagated.  Not following the thread that close

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...undy/79392112/

EDIT:  "Unidentified sources", of course

----------


## 69360

> They capitalized on an incident to bring attention to their own directly related situation, both which are national--as this affects more than a single state.  Do you think the feds give a crap if you write them letters from the safety of your home office?  You will simply be ignored or blown off with a canned response.  They do not care about you or your concerns.  You are less than a whisper in a crowded stadium to them.
> 
> The "aggrieved family" has no direct involvement with the BLM's offices--and regardless they are under duress by the feds, so of course they are not going to speak against their captors.
> 
> And they did not go across the country, they drove over to the adjacent state.
> 
> So, what is your alternative?  A mass hunger-strike?


I think you defend what is yours and you defend those who ask for your help.




> so i guess we're just going to wait and watch as these patriots get killed, shake our heads and tell ourselves this was  an ill advised op, and tune in to American Idol tonight with the pop corn and drinks...move along, nothing to see here...


While I think it was ill advised, I am not opposed to miltias in general. I also think it was a damn shame somebody got killed.




> The Weather Underground thought they were doing the right thing too.
> _
> "It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?"_
> 
> I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated but taking control of a Federal building by people who have no connection to the family or anyone else in the area and just looking for trouble and disrupting innocent people's lives in the process isn't going to help the situation and just makes things worse.  
> 
> I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.


FWIW my late father was an SDS chapter president and the FBI used to come banging on our door looking for Weather Underground members in the 70's when I was a kid. I don't think the Weather Underground was doing the right thing, but I do think the Bundys were at their ranch. I don't agree with them taking this building.




> Nah, I'm just tired of hearing some dude yammer on who thinks what the Hammond's lawyer said under threat as some sort of gospel truth about what the Hammonds actually think.


IMO if they though otherwise, they would not have reported to jail and made a stand on their ranch. I actually would have supported that action.

----------


## phill4paul

> This article saying dead protester pulled a gun...
> 
> Don't know if this info has already propagated.  Not following the thread that close
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...undy/79392112/
> 
> EDIT:  "Unidentified sources", of course


  Two different accounts. One a second hand source citing Ryan Payne, who was in the vehicle, said LaVoy Finicum charged the Feds. The second a first hand account from an 18 yr. old female in the car saying he was gunned down with hands raised. Both accounts are several pages back because of the detritus clogging the thread up.

----------


## JK/SEA

> emotional; based on inner experience rather than fact.


everyone has a role to play. Some gravitate to leader positions, and others gravitate to true warrior status, but when leaders go down in the field usually someone else picks up the torch. Its not rocket science.

----------


## TruckinMike

Eye witness account of shooting ---> she was in the car that took the gunfire

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg

----------


## wizardwatson

> Two different accounts. One a second hand source citing Ryan Payne, who was in the vehicle, said LaVoy Finicum charged the Feds. The second a first hand account from an 18 yr. old female in the car saying he was gunned down with hands raised. Both accounts are several pages back because of the detritus clogging the thread up.


So is it two accounts or three?

charging with gun
hands up don't shoot 

or 

charging 
pulling a gun
hands up don't shoot

I'm guessing the former.

----------


## goldenequity

No current raw feed... probably battery.

Listening to commentary 

.

----------


## JK/SEA

''you're risking a civil war''.. Rhodes to FEDS

''no more Wacos'' ..Stuart Rhodes

i guess we shall soon find out.

----------


## phill4paul

> So is it two accounts or three?
> 
> charging with gun
> hands up don't shoot 
> 
> or 
> 
> charging 
> pulling a gun
> ...


  I'm only going to go with two accounts. Anytime a reporter lists an "quoting unidentified sources" tells me that it is a government agent acting on conditions of anonymity to put the official spin out there.

----------


## goldenequity

> I'm only going to go with two accounts. Anytime a reporter lists an "quoting unidentified sources" tells me that it is a government agent acting on conditions of anonymity to put the official spin out there.


*
EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY* (I downloaded it. They were being murdered.)

----------


## JK/SEA

convoy headed to the reserve. Comms down.

----------


## goldenequity

*Current RAW*

----------


## pcosmar

> Mayhaps....
> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...led_while.html


Mayhaps,, but this McConnell sounds more like the Fed Plant to me.
the only one not arrested and telling a story.

edit,, knee jerk,, I don't know if he said that or if some writer made it up..
But something is foul,, and a lack of aid from those able to do so is disgusting.
it does not matter if you agree with them or not,, 

Murder is wrong,, even when Government does it.

----------


## phill4paul

> Mayhaps,, but this McConnell sounds more like the Fed Plant to me.
> the only one not arrested and telling a story.


  His accounts were second hand. From, he says, Payne and Cox. So there is a bit of a mix up. Given the 18 yr. old females account it would seem that he would have seen the first gunfire exchange as Finicum was only 200 yds. down the road before he took off driving. His account is indeed suspicious.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Dudes should just give up, there is no "winning". They can die I suppose, but even then there won't be much sympathy, given the goofballs on camera are clearly seeking death by Fed confrontation, or at least chest thumping to that effect. 

Stupid is as Stupid does, even Gump knows that. The guy that died, I saw in the previous videos was over the top as well. He was hunting for death. 

I detest the Federal government but it's clear most of these guys are mentally ill. The semi-sane ones gave up without their beloved battle to the death. Liberty isn't being watered here.

----------


## goldenequity

*again.*

----------


## pcosmar

> ''you're risking a civil war''.. Rhodes to FEDS
> 
> ''no more Wacos'' ..Stuart Rhodes
> 
> i guess we shall soon find out.


I keep hearing that and Cops keep killing folks with no repercussions.

I am wondering who exactly is the controlled opposition and who are not.

Hint.. Government enforcers are the enemy of liberty.
Kissing the asses of such is unproductive.

----------


## Lucille

http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2...e-rioting.html

----------


## Valli6

Greg Walden statement on the situation in Harney County



> _January 27, 2016 Press Release_
> 
> HOOD RIVER  U.S. Rep. Greg Walden (R-Hood River) today issued the following statement on the situation in Harney County:
> 
> I've been in close contact with local and federal officials throughout this long standoff, and we had all hoped for a peaceful conclusion to the situation in Harney County. Sadly, our hopes were shattered with the shooting that occurred during last night's arrest. While we wait to learn more details and next steps, we must keep the people of Harney County in our hearts as they are a strong community and have endured a great deal. Once again, I urge those who remain at the refuge to go home before anyone else gets hurt. And when this is done and the cameras' glare turns away from rural Oregon, the healing process will be a long one. Widespread frustration will continue until people in rural America feel like they are being heard and meaningful changes are made to federal land management policy.

----------


## goldenequity

*Washington Post Livefeed Burns Oregon.... 3 speakers scheduled. No Q&A*

----------


## JK/SEA

> Dudes should just give up, there is no "winning". They can die I suppose, but even then there won't be much sympathy, given the goofballs on camera are clearly seeking death by Fed confrontation, or at least chest thumping to that effect. 
> 
> Stupid is as Stupid does, even Gump knows that. The guy that died, I saw in the previous videos was over the top as well. He was hunting for death. 
> 
> I detest the Federal government but it's clear most of these guys are mentally ill. The semi-sane ones gave up without their beloved battle to the death. Liberty isn't being watered here.


reads like what King George probably said about his subjects across the Atlantic in 1776.

----------


## goldenequity

*RAW Live:* Helicopter heard...




or here: The Watchman

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Helo just did a close orbit

----------


## youngbuck

> *Washington Post Livefeed Burns Oregon.... 3 speakers scheduled. No Q&A*


Speakers come out at about 47:00, speaking starts at about 47:45.  First guy to speak is FBI Special Agent in Charge in Oregon.

----------


## goldenequity

*RAW Live:* 



or here: The Watchman

----------


## GunnyFreedom

They are really bad at this camera thing.

----------


## Dr.3D

> They are really bad at this camera thing.


Looks like they needed to mark what the top of the camera is.

----------


## Occam's Banana

I regret that I have but one rep to give for this post.




> Have you been in a coma for the last 15 years? "The process" has been hopelessly corrupted to the point where there is no justice left in the "justice" system.  You can be sure that the corrupt monsters with their claws into the system down to the bone will not be routed peacefully. They are thugs and monsters, and force is the only language they speak.
> 
> Eventually, to route out the corruption, it will come down to force.  Even if we won every election, and every Sheriff's office, and every DA in the country, these people will not leave peacefully.  Once they have tasted power they will not let go without a fight.  This is simply the nature of the beast.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated [...]
> 
> Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF [...]


What "process" would that be? The same "process" by which you say "the prosecutor needs to be investigated" ... ? 

If you actually believe in that, then I've got some prime ocean-front property in Wyoming to sell you.

(And don't worry - it isn't "owned" by the Feds or "managed" by the BLM or anything like that ... I promise ...)

----------


## nobody's_hero

> _"I DON'T believe in the process and you're a fool if you do. And I'll stay right here despite your belief that you are the director of all things RPF's. "_
> 
> I'm no director, I'm just giving you some friendly advice. Nearly 29,000 posts since 2007 on a website supposedly devoted to political activism and you're basically calling armed revolution by this point and all I can say is you've wasted your time. But, it's yours to do so.
> 
> And that goes for everyone. Do the moderators of RPF want half the posts to be about politics and the campaign and the other half consisting of takeover plots that might interest the FBI? Because that's where its headed. That's how alienated people are. They're not worried about the campaign. I don't disagree with anything that's been said about corruption or in some cases unconstitutional action. But since that's been going on in all governments and institutions since the beginning of time in all nations, shooting off your guns or taking control of a Post Office isn't going to change it. Life goes on, you make the most of it where you can and how you can legally. That's what I believe and if others disagree that's fine.  But the Paul movement and RPF in monitoring it is largely statist - because it is going through the legitimate political process and does what it does through that process and believes in that process, like it or not. If you reject that, fine. But you're wasting your time being here then. I don't want censorship but I'm not going to be a party to people's Tea Party fantasies either and as I said, I hope the website and those running it aren't smeared or harassed by it either.


Oh give me a break. 

The most we're going to get out of the political process is a chance to educate people. GunnyFreedom is right. The leviathan won't let go of power without a fight. Never has, never will. If what you are saying is true, then the patriots in 1775 got a lot of people killed unnecessarily because all they really had to do was vote harder or something and the king would've been like, 'whoops, my bad!'. _That_ sir, is as much of a fantasy (if not more so) as what you refer to as the Johnny Reb mentality.

The question is not whether or not there will be a fight, but when and where it would be wisest to have that fight. I don't think Oregon was the time nor the place. Nevada was. Unfortunately Oregon sort of wiped out any progress made in Nevada and now militias are seen by boobus as the bad guys again.

And for what it's worth, the FBI is interested in everything said here, even the legal stuff. I'm sure I'm on a list somewhere just for being a delegate for Ron Paul, and that was using the process. Martin Luther King, Jr. used "the process" and the FBI has more files on him than Osama bin Laden. Maybe it's you who is delusional.

----------


## Deborah K

Eye Witness to the shooting:

----------


## phill4paul

I just had a FB debate about this. Christ, people a braindead. I had to keep re-iterating over and over that McConnell wasn't present at the shooting and that he made unverifiable second hand claims about the situation. And that Victoria gave a first hand eyewitness account. Over, and over and over. I finally just gave up.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> Oh give me a break. 
> 
> The most we're going to get out of the political process is a chance to educate people. GunnyFreedom is right. The leviathan won't let go of power without a fight. Never has, never will. If what you are saying is true, then the patriots in 1775 got a lot of people killed unnecessarily because all they really had to do was vote harder or something and the king would've been like, 'whoops, my bad!'. _That_ sir, is as much of a fantasy (if not more so) as what you refer to as the Johnny Reb mentality.
> 
> The question is not whether or not there will be a fight, but when and where it would be wisest to have that fight. I don't think Oregon was the time nor the place. Nevada was. Unfortunately Oregon sort of wiped out any progress made in Nevada and now militias are seen by boobus as the bad guys again.
> 
> And for what it's worth, the FBI is interested in everything said here, even the legal stuff. I'm sure I'm on a list somewhere just for being a delegate for Ron Paul, and that was using the process. Martin Luther King, Jr. used "the process" and the FBI has more files on him than Osama bin Laden. Maybe it's you who is delusional.


and if everyone who didn't believe in the process had to leave RPF then [Badger Paul] would be awfully lonely here. It's highly probable that most of us don't believe in it even as we work to get Rand Paul elected. This is more like something we can point to when SHTF and say that we honestly tried every alternative. 

'Don't blame me, I voted for Rand Paul.'

(supposed to have been an edit)

----------


## Badger Paul

"then the patriots in 1775 got a lot of people killed unnecessarily because all they really had to do was vote harder "

The patriots could not vote for people who made policy in Great Britain (i.e. Parliament) that affected them. That is what no taxation without representation means.

----------


## JK/SEA

> "then the patriots in 1775 got a lot of people killed unnecessarily because all they really had to do was vote harder "
> 
> The patriots could not vote for people who made policy in Great Britain (i.e. Parliament) that affected them. That is what no taxation without representation means.


correct. They wrote strongly worded letters of discontent instead, only to be re-buffed with a police state, and the rest is...history.

----------


## Deborah K

> Two different accounts. One a second hand source citing Ryan Payne, who was in the vehicle, said LaVoy Finicum charged the Feds. The second a first hand account from an 18 yr. old female in the car saying he was gunned down with hands raised. Both accounts are several pages back because of the detritus clogging the thread up.


The girl practically swoons over Payne in her testimony. (He's at least got _her_ convinced that he's legit.)  And Payne is supposedly stating that Finicum charged the Feds??  Hmmmm....

----------


## phill4paul

> The girl practically swoons over Payne in herThere is no confirmation that Payne actually said anything. testimony. (He's at least got _her_ convinced that he's legit.)  And Payne is supposedly stating that Finicum charged the Feds??  Hmmmm....


  No. The driver of Ammon's vehicle, a guy named McConell, who was stopped and released said that he talked to Payne. So what is being bandied about as what Payne said is unconfirmed.

----------


## Deborah K

> No. The driver of Ammon's vehicle, a guy named McConell, who was stopped and released said that he talked to Payne. So what is being bandied about as what Payne said is unconfirmed.


Would love to hear from Payne.  Would love to see the vehicle.  Any chance we'll get either?

----------


## phill4paul

> Would love to hear from Payne.  Would love to see the vehicle.  Any chance we'll get either?


  I'm gonna buy a lotto ticket and see what comes out ahead.

----------


## Deborah K

Next, we'll be hearing how shots were fired from the vehicle, which is why the Feds shot it up.  But will we ever see forensics results on whether their weapons were ever fired?  Probably not...Will we get to see the vehicle?

----------


## pcosmar

> Would love to hear from Payne.  Would love to see the vehicle.  Any chance we'll get either?


Doubts,, They will keep Payne away from any media.. as well as evidence of the ambush.

----------


## Indy Vidual



----------


## phill4paul

> Next, we'll be hearing how shots were fired from the vehicle, which is why the Feds shot it up.  But will we ever see forensics results on whether their weapons were ever fired?  Probably not...Will we get to see the vehicle?


  Doesn't matter. The Feds can fire for any reason under SCOTUS guidelines. Circular force continuum is no longer in the play book. It's simply comply or die.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Eye Witness to the shooting:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSwAeVI1abc


I appreciate it, but I can't understand a word she's saying.  I need subtitles.  I tried the YouTube CC option but that's even more nonsensical than the audio.

----------


## Deborah K

Here's KrisAnn talking about it:

http://krisannehall.com/oregon-truth/

----------


## Occam's Banana

I regret that I have but one rep to give for this post.




> Have you been in a coma for the last 15 years? "The process" has been hopelessly corrupted to the point where there is no justice left in the "justice" system.  You can be sure that the corrupt monsters with their claws into the system down to the bone will not be routed peacefully. They are thugs and monsters, and force is the only language they speak.
> 
> Eventually, to route out the corruption, it will come down to force.  Even if we won every election, and every Sheriff's office, and every DA in the country, these people will not leave peacefully.  Once they have tasted power they will not let go without a fight.  This is simply the nature of the beast.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> "then the patriots in 1775 got a lot of people killed unnecessarily because all they really had to do was vote harder "
> 
> The patriots could not vote for people who made policy in Great Britain (i.e. Parliament) that affected them. That is what no taxation without representation means.


Here is an example of how your vote does not matter:




It's all predetermined bud. I'm sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, since it probably comes as a shock and all.

Oh and this was in the related videos: Here's the entire 2012 delegation from Maine holding a rump convention after they were *KICKED OUT BY YOUR BELOVED "PROCESS"*







I could post these videos all day (the evidence is as plentiful as it is damning) but I'm not gonna waste my time on someone who has been here for 8 damned years and has amnesia about how many times we've been shat on by the process.

----------


## FrancisMarion

> _18 U.S.C. 
> United States Code, 2011 Edition
> Title 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
> PART I - CRIMES
> CHAPTER 19 - CONSPIRACY
> Sec. 372 - Conspiracy to impede or injure officer
> From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov
> 
> §372. Conspiracy to impede or injure officer
> ...


Blood boils.

----------


## Bryan

To resolve some of the site debate issues...


The site has a very carefully defined Mission, if you support that Mission then this is the right place for you.

The site also has very carefully defined Usage Guidelines, these are necessary to keep the site functional and ideally, thriving.



Some key takeaways from them are that we accept there are many possible paths to liberty but the site staff certainly doesn't know what is best or what will even work. If we did, it would have already been done. So we are very open to dialog and promoting ideas and action to what will work. May the right path be presented, be supported and be executed.


That said, there are certainly some ethical and legal considerations that need to be accounted for to keep the site functional. As such, the Usage Guidelines will limit these elements as necessary which includes prohibiting calls for violence.


In short, there is no reason to ask the staff, you can read what is published in the Mission and Usage Guidelines, we'll be happy to answer any questions on those.


Hope this clears things up.

----------


## JK/SEA

> The girl practically swoons over Payne in her testimony. (He's at least got _her_ convinced that he's legit.)  And Payne is supposedly stating that Finicum charged the Feds??  Hmmmm....


'furtive move' or 'charged'...same thing to a coward.

----------


## goldenequity

*RAW Live:* 

*Previous:*



*Current Live:*



or here: The Watchman

----------


## JK/SEA

III% on FB are having 'call to arms'...guns up. At least thats what he said.

----------


## Lucille

"Authorities urge remaining Oregon occupiers to quit after killing."
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...ng-oregon.html




> The arrests and shooting have angered anti-government protesters across the country, said Mike Vanderboegh, a gun-rights activist active in self-proclaimed militia circles. "It's all I can do to keep people from going and shooting feds right now," he told Reuters. Vanderboegh said the FBI had acted too quickly to end a situation that was already headed toward peaceful resolution.


"Malheur: The 3,025 FPS Arrest Warrant."
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...t-warrant.html




> News of the recent events in Oregon deeply saddened me. According to Victoria Sharp (who was in the car that was ambushed) Lavoy Finicum was shot when he had his hands in the air. We really wont know who to believe until video of the event is released. (There were 30+ vehicles there, so the chances are very good that a dashcam recorded what happened.) The Federal agents have apparently now upped the ante, turning what had been a peaceful dialogue into a shooting affray. It saddens me to hear that there was loss of life in the ambush-arrest of several of the Malheur protestors. I must ask: Why did the FBI roadblock them out in the middle of nowhere, where there would no independent witnesses? (Why not just arrest them in the parking lot, just before the well-publicized public meeting?) Since when is an arrest warrant served at 3,025 feet per second?

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

The sheriff goon looked pretty upset in that video...  I'd say he's spending a lot of time looking over his shoulder...

----------


## goldenequity

"They murdered him. I am an eye witness. Tell the people what they did." *-- Ammon Bundy*
https://www.facebook.com/DMLdaily/vi...09945/?fref=nf

A full 20min interview with Mel Bundy in 1 hour. http://www.newsmaxtv.com/



> I gave Mel Bundy 20 full minutes to tell the story of what took place last night in Oregon, and what will happen next now that one man is dead and his brothers are being held by the FBI. You can catch the exclusive interview tonight on UNFILTERED. *9pm ET*, and again at midnight. Only on NewsmaxTV.



==========
ugh.. I started to (try) and watch newsmax.... couldn't handle it. I'll wait for the youtube.

----------


## wizardwatson

> "They murdered him. I am an eye witness. Tell the people what they did." *-- Ammon Bundy*
> https://www.facebook.com/DMLdaily/vi...09945/?fref=nf
> 
> A full 20min interview with Mel Bundy in 1 hour. http://www.newsmaxtv.com/


I think if Ammon is asking them to stand down at this point they should.  

As sick as it is, the economics of the moment put the pressure on the Fed's to explain the death.  If a shootout occurs and a cop is killed, there isn't any leverage for anything.  So if what Ammon is supposedly saying is true, that he can get a deal for the remaining occupiers to not be prosecuted if they give up the refuge, they should take it.  I don't think any good will be salvageable if a full on shootout occurs.  Let Ammon take over the protest from court as he says.

Of course, it appears from reports that there's a few players in the refuge who just want to die.  Well, that will certainly generate more attention but it's only going to aggravate the public and become a divisive issue.  If you really want some "peaceful" solution, I think this is the out.  You wanted to be martyrs, well, one of your guys is one.  If you force a shootout at this point, I think the public will side much more with law enforcement after that event.

If they are "really" interested in any kind of grassroots activist change that doesn't amount to scorched earth with respect to civil order, I think this is the last train.

Though, I'm not even sure it's a real deal.  Sounds too generous almost, but perhaps this was the FBI's plan all along.  Arrest the leadership off site, offer the rest immunity.

----------


## idiom

Stand down, have a huge $#@!ing funeral with everyone carrying.

That ups the ante for the next confrontation.

Its that or start a war now. But seriously people are not pissed off enough yet.

----------


## Zippyjuan

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/27...-standoff.html




> *Oregon standoff leader asks holdouts at refuge to go home*
> 
> The attorney for the leader of an armed group occupying an Oregon wildlife refuge said Wednesday the man wants those remaining at the refuge to "please stand down" and go home.
> 
> Ammon Bundy made an initial appearance in federal court in Portland, Oregon after he and seven others were arrested Tuesday during an incident with police that killed 1.
> 
> This photo provided by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office on Wednesday, Jan. 27, 2016, shows Ammon Bundy, one of the members of an armed group occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge as part of a dispute over public lands in the Western U.S. Bundy and several others were arrested on Tuesday, Jan. 26, prompting gunfire and leaving one man dead during a traffic stop along a highway in Oregon's frozen high country. (Multnomah County Sheriff via AP)Expand / Contract
> 
> Mike Arnold, Bundy's attorney, read a statement afterward in which Bundy urged those still at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to leave.
> ...





> An unknown number of protesters remained at the refuge Wednesday, but members of the media began leaving after the FBI reportedly told some journalists the Bureau couldn't offer "protection."
> 
> KTVZ reporter Lauren Martinez tweeted a video of her leaving the compound area with the ominous note "@FBI warns media no protection." Oregon Public Broadcasting reporter John Sepulvado tweeted ".@OPB was told by FBI that we were on our own -- essentially stuff is going down and we need to move."
> 
> Earlier in the day, Jason Patrick, one of the leaders of the crew remaining at the outpost, said he could see an armored convoy and a number of law enforcement officers gathered from his perch in the compound.
> 
> "Sounds like the definition of peaceful resolution is either forcefully kidnapping me or death," Patrick told USA Today. "A peaceful resolution is not dead people."
> 
> The FBI and Oregon State Police were also establishing a series of checkpoints along key routes in and out of the refuge on Wednesday. The agencies said in a statement that the containment was to 'better ensure the safety of community members."
> ...

----------


## asurfaholic

I am keeping this situation in my prayers and offer up that the battles are raging, but the war is already won. Hope that this can de-escalate before it gets riduliculous and perceptions get polluted by a few rash/ unwise choices. 

Stand strong and keep the cameras on every second.

----------


## goldenequity

*Back up streaming...* campfire




*The Watchman*

----------


## PursuePeace



----------


## goldenequity

*Spitfire Sentinel LIVE*

----------


## pcosmar

> "Authorities urge remaining Oregon occupiers to quit after killing."
> http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogsp...ng-oregon.html





> The arrests and shooting have angered anti-government protesters across the country, said Mike Vanderboegh, a gun-rights activist active in self-proclaimed militia circles. *"It's all I can do to keep people from going and shooting feds right now,"* he told Reuters.


Quit that.

----------


## goldenequity

*Lavoy and daughter Thara Lynn Tenney*


“I want the world to know how my father was murdered today. 
His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. 
Ammon Bundy reported there are 6 witnesses to this evil,” wrote Tenney.
http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-o...ds-in-the-air/

*KrisAnne Hall* *"A Shootout????"*



*Michael Emery KVOI* (Voice of Idaho) moments ago... Burns motel

----------


## Schifference

Gone full circle now. Started in the courts then became an armed position now it is back in the court.

----------


## pcosmar



----------


## Weston White

> The patriots could not vote for people who made policy in Great Britain (i.e. Parliament) that affected them. That is what no taxation without representation means.


The matter of voting is entirely separate from representation.  Voting is the ultimate result of being represented, which the latter entails the first right to be heard and to challenge the status quo--and laying the foundation for redress and due process.

----------


## UWDude

> What do you suggest?


We should all go to public parks, and reassert our right to be there, the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and redress the grievances, (that's first amendment, yeah, protesting is amendment 1), such as the bailouts, the wars, the uneven political influence of the 1%...

...oh yeah, that lingo.  I forgot.  I forgot, when occupiers did it on public land, they were "trespassing" and "breaking the law" etc etc...  When occupiers were upsetting people's precious schedules, they were a "nuisance" and "pointless".  Now you got a bunch of people protesting how most of you would prefer, out in the middle of nowhere, bothering nobody.  That is not how mass movements are formed, fools.  And it didn't do them any good.  In fact, it got one of them killed, probably without a camera or "unbiased" eyewitness in sight.

You all lost your chance years ago.  And most of you are nothing but persistent arguers, who will always find an excuse not to participate in anything unless you are absolutely 100% sure you will be sleeping in your bed that very night, afraid of even a little jail time, and agree 100% with everything on the agenda.

I've been watching this, this whole time, and thinking, "this is the great movement the RPF'ers were looking for, the one most of them dare not join, even if they sympathize 100%"  It was your last chance.  

There is nothing left to do, but live your life, and enjoy it while you can, and mentally and physically prepare for the inevitable downfall.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> There is nothing left to do, but live your life, and enjoy it while you can, and mentally and physically prepare for the inevitable downfall.


God bless the day the soup kitchens can't keep up with the demand of feeding whores.

I hope they bail out the college students through robbing pensions.

And they all die of AIDS.

Amen.

----------


## UWDude

> God bless the day the soup kitchens can't keep up with the demand of feeding whores.
> 
> I hope they bail out the college students through robbing pensions.
> 
> And they all die of AIDS.
> 
> Amen.


$#@! it, it's every man for himself.  Has it ever even been different?

Words of wisdom, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

The only people keeping Americans safe from themselves are the last few holdouts who still believe in liberty and freedom.  And for that, the seething masses of idiots will hate you.

The people don't want liberty, they want safety, they don't want freedom, freedom is too hard.  Fighting for people who don't deserve it is idiotic, and deserve means they will fight for you, regardless of your opinions, and that they will fight for themselves.  If they do neither, then there is no reason to fight for them.

Just make sure you are on top.

----------


## Weston White

> Let Ammon take over the protest from court as he says.
> 
> Of course, it appears from reports that there's a few players in the refuge who just want to die.  Well, that will certainly generate more attention but it's only going to aggravate the public and become a divisive issue.  If you really want some "peaceful" solution, I think this is the out.  You wanted to be martyrs, well, one of your guys is one.  If you force a shootout at this point, I think the public will side much more with law enforcement after that event.
> 
> If they are "really" interested in any kind of grassroots activist change that doesn't amount to scorched earth with respect to civil order, I think this is the last train.
> 
> Though, I'm not even sure it's a real deal.  Sounds too generous almost, but perhaps this was the FBI's plan all along.  Arrest the leadership off site, offer the rest immunity.


On the other hand, however, there is no way in H-E-double-hockey-sticks they are going to get any semblance of a fair trial in any venue there.  Also, it should be noted that the FBI supposedly gave an ultimatum for everybody to leave without consequence and then immediately arrested Pete Santilli as he was attempting to deescalate the brewing standoff at the refuge and at the least get the women and children out of there.

So you have to ponder what is it that the FBI is really wanting to accomplish there--considering their sordid past, and that they ambushed them enroute to a public meeting by supposedly shooting over one-hundred rounds at them, killing one and injuring another, per a key witness.

----------


## TheTexan

> What do you suggest?


Strongly worded letters (but not too strong, you want to stay respectful)
Sign waving (in the appropriately designated areas)
Petitions such as change.org (very important)

And obviously, voting super hard, is key.

----------


## Weston White

> Strongly worded letters (but not too strong, you want to stay respectful)
> Sign waving (in the appropriately designated areas)
> Petitions such as change.org (very important)
> 
> And obviously, voting super hard, is key.


I would add:

Aggressive 24/7 365/366 phone-banks (reach out and touch somebodies while the NSA covertly monitors you).
Strongly painted pictures (pictures are worth thousands of words).

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.


I document, on a daily basis, how "the process" kills people and gets away with it.

The _naiveté_ of your statement is stunning, not to mention your hubris, thinking you have the right to tell *anybody* to be *anywhere*.

Blow it out your ass.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Back to maintaining child pornography websites and what not.

Remember Joseph Salvati? The man the FBI knew was innocent but covered up evidence of his innocence for near thirty years? While the informant they knew had committed the murder murdered more people?

Real clean cut, straight arrowed folks, the FBI.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

"What do you want, tears?" - Harold Paul Rico, former FBI agent

----------


## Natural Citizen

> Gone full circle now. Started in the courts then became an armed position now it is back in the court.


I can't wrap my head around the reality that the federal government remains both the plaintiff and prosecutor in this whole thing.

----------


## Weston White

> Back to maintaining child pornography websites and what not.
> 
> Remember Joseph Salvati? The man the FBI knew was innocent but covered up evidence of his innocence for near thirty years? While the informant they knew had committed the murder murdered more people?
> 
> Real clean cut, straight arrowed folks, the FBI.


Also, there is the Little Lupe case, the prosecutor knew she was an adult and professional in the field, but still went on with the case.  However, the defense won when the supposed "victim" walked into the courtroom to testify for the defense.  This case should have, at the very minimum, gotten the prosecutor disbarred and seriously called into question these forensic "experts" that testify as to the exact age of a person by examining their developed body via digital image--who in this case testified that Lupe was something like eight-years old in the video.

(And if that was not bad enough, IIRC, the prosecutor even tried to prevent her testimony on the grounds that they did not get to depose her, however, her she placed on the witness list from the very start of the case by the defense, who had covertly arranged for her to appear on the very last day of trial, to which she gladly agreed.)

----------


## goldenequity

> I can't wrap my head around the reality that the federal government remains both the plaintiff and prosecutor in this whole thing.


Good point. Think about it.

----------


## Slave Mentality

> I can't wrap my head around the reality that the federal government remains both the plaintiff and prosecutor in this whole thing.


They also rule on the case.   Banana Republic

----------


## dannno

> I document, on a daily basis, how "the process" kills people and gets away with it.
> 
> The _naiveté_ of your statement is stunning, not to mention your hubris, thinking you have the right to tell *anybody* to be *anywhere*.
> 
> Blow it out your ass.


It's pretty cute that he thinks a guy who wants to abolish over 90% of the government is going to attract people who believe in the "system", aka the most vast criminal enterprise in the world.

----------


## nobody's_hero

> The matter of voting is entirely separate from representation.  Voting is the ultimate result of being represented, which the latter entails the first right to be heard and to challenge the status quo--and laying the foundation for redress and due process.


Not to mention that voting in itself is not some fool-proof defense against tyranny, as Badger Paul seems to think. You could throw a dart at a list of 20th-Century dictators and land on someone who was elected to power with 99% of the vote.

----------


## mrsat_98



----------


## goldenequity

*Cliven* "That's the kind of people we're tired of dealin' with"

----------


## goldenequity

> 


Sorry. Not funny. 
Boston Tea Party wasn't about tea... and this wasn't about a bird sanctuary.
**disgust**

----------


## vita3

Who is the  House of Representative for that County in Oregon?

----------


## PursuePeace

> LaVoy Finicum's Stand For Freedom
> 22 hrs · Eagle Mountain, UT · 
> 
> ****Finicum Family Response to LaVoys Murder****
> ***1/27/2016***
> We thank all those reaching out to us in love during this difficult time. Your faithful prayers are felt. Please keep praying and keep using your voice to get the truth out. This fight against tyranny is not over. Press forward.
> 
> Forgiveness is what we can extend and understanding is what we want. 
> Christ was and is LaVoys exemplar. Though there are evil and conspiring men at work, Christ still forgave the executioners for they knew not what they did.
> We give permission to all media to use this statement in their reports.



*
RIP LaVoy*

----------


## Weston White

> Who is the  House of Representative for that County in Oregon?



http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...m.cfm?State=OR

http://ziplook.house.gov/htbin/findrep?ZIP=97721

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/OR

----------


## phill4paul

Let this be a lesson to anyone going forward. Anything and everything you say _will_ be used against you. I'd recommend a collection of all video devices including phones, do not allow vloggers unlimited access, no one is to speak to the press or do interviews except the spokespersons. Any violation should be considered immediate expulsion from site. This is not to say that the op should not be well documented so that it may be used against the Feds. It just needs to be secured offsite with a limited number, not engaged directly, having access.  Any video from within the site needs to be vetted for propaganda purposes before release. Hotheads need to find the door. 




> Where was the FBI during the armed standoff in Oregon? Out of sight, but listening and watching
> 
>  the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon dragged on for most of January, local law enforcement was spread thin and federal agents were nowhere to be seen.
> 
> Behind the quiet facade, however, the FBI was running surveillance on the occupation and recording the activists’ public statements, mostly drawn from media reports and the activists' use of social media, while FBI agents encouraged locals to report their experiences with the new strangers in town.
> 
> According to the allegations in an indictment and supporting affidavit, the FBI was collecting information that confirmed the occupiers were armed, angry and willing to die.
> 
> The court documents detail how a source told a Harney County sheriff’s officer that the protesters “had explosives, night vision goggles, and weapons and that if they didn't get the fight they wanted out there they would bring the fight to town.” The documents show that authorities grew concerned as the occupiers used increasingly heated rhetoric when discussing their plans and the occupation.
> ...


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...127-story.html

  Here is the criminal complaint and the interviews, youtube videos, blogs, etc. they used to build the case for conspiracy.

http://community.statesmanjournal.co...bundy_case.pdf

----------


## phill4paul

> Three more members of the milita group occupying a federal wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon were arrested Wednesday at one of the checkpoints the FBI had established around the area. 
> 
> One of those arrested was 43-year-old Jason Patrick, who had taken over leadership of the group from Ammon Bundy. Bundy was arrested Tuesday after a confrontation on a remote highway that resulted in the death of militant Robert Finicum.
> 
> The FBI and Oregon State Police said that 45-year-old Duane Leo Ehmer of Irrigon, Oregon, and 34-year-old Dylan Wade Anderson of Provo, Utah, turned themselves in hours before Patrick's arrest. FBI officials said Wednesday night that in addition to the three arrests, five others left the refuge through the checkpoints and were released without arrest.
> 
> All three arrested men face a single felony charge of conspiracy to impede officers of the United States from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation or threats, as does Bundy and the seven others who were arrested Tuesday.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/28...-arrested.html

----------


## The Gold Standard

> I document, on a daily basis, how "the process" kills people and gets away with it.
> 
> The _naiveté_ of your statement is stunning, not to mention your hubris, thinking you have the right to tell *anybody* to be *anywhere*.
> 
> Blow it out your ass.


Can't rep you, but I'm sure someone will cover me.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> To demonstrate a conspiracy, the government has a lower burden than it would with similar charges, such as aiding and abetting, or solicitation. A conspiracy charge in federal court does not require the underlying offense to have taken place, so prosecutors can charge the defendants based on their statements, without proving they actually committed a crime


..

----------


## dannno

> ..


Can we call each other "Comrade" yet?

----------


## youngbuck

> A significant amount of the FBI’s information used to charge Ammon Bundy  came from an activist named Pete Santilli, who was living inside the  refuge and broadcasting live his conversations with fellow activists.


  From the Santilli videos I watched on youtube, it looked like he was staying at a motel in Burns (a motel room in which he conducted a few interviews, such as with Brandon Curtiss).

----------


## Deborah K

> 


check your neg rep.

----------


## JK/SEA

> check your neg rep.



ditto and done.

----------


## JK/SEA



----------


## Deborah K

I have the urge, for the first time in years to organize a demonstration.  I feel so sad, and angry, and helpless right now.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

why would someone who is a government target travel without an escort

----------


## JK/SEA

> why would someone who is a government target travel without an escort


easy one. The evil ones lulled them into a false sense of security by letting them come and go without incident, then wham!....

trust in government gets you killed or your life in ruins...

lessons we all should memorize.

----------


## pcosmar

> I have the urge, for the first time in years to organize a demonstration.  I feel so sad, and angry, and helpless right now.


I do not know why there are not convoys of vehicles,, from every direction heading that way.

And am saddened that the murder is going unaddressed.

Murderers walk freely and unafraid while freedom loving people are prepared to die.

and none with the means will do anything about it.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I do not know why there are not convoys of vehicles,, from every direction heading that way.
> 
> And am saddened that the murder is going unaddressed.
> 
> Murderers walk freely and unafraid while freedom loving people are prepared to die.
> 
> and none with the means will do anything about it.


well, Oathkeepers did say that there will be no more free Wacos, and that the FEDS better handle this with kid gloves or there will be civil war...perhaps they are massing somewhere....be patient.

----------


## pcosmar

> ..be patient.


I am, because I know the same thing some of these know.. There is a Righteous Judge.

in the mean time I am also angry.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> [...] prosecutors can charge the defendants based on their statements, without proving they actually committed a crime.

----------


## goldenequity

Facebook: "Sandy & Sean were just sitting around a campfire at the front gate.... no weapons... white flag..."
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00004569528547
(these are 2 out of the 4-5 remaining; Sean did the livestreams and Lavoy's Youtube site, Sandy (his wife) is pregnant; they live in Idaho.)

----------


## DavesNotHere

*" **disgust** "*

Exactly goldenequity. Not cool. Right or wrong, the life of an American, standing up for his rights was taken for NO reason.

This sounds like a bunch of scared little children set a trap and were confronted by something they NEVER see... a REAL human standing up for what he saw as right, with conviction and honesty, while still holding peace and love in his heart. Watching him in his videos or listening to him speak, this cowboy wasn't there to hurt anyone.

Did LaVoy get out of his truck using words as his only weapon? Sounds like it to me... then, instead of defusing the situation like a real human would, they crapped their pants and reacted as all 'law-enforcement' now does- If it looks scary (like the back of a truck in LA delivering newspapers) spray it with bullets! Seems pretty wimpy to me.

The MSM and even some independent media are slamming these Patriots, but given some time for things to sink in- they just created one hell of a martyr.

(Off-topic/from PL- how is the RSO working out? Good I hope!)

----------


## goldenequity

*Santilli's Arrest*
As this draws to a close.... I want to repent.
I came to an earlier attitude about Pete. I was wrong. He's not manic or psycho. He's an east coast Italian... full blooded.
They're very passionate people... now I remember. 
I grew up in New York. They painted their houses pink. They laughed and yelled. a lot. Sorry Pete.

----------


## Lucille

Peacefully Occupy an Empty Government Shack in Oregon . . .
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...-shack-oregon/




> . . . to protest the government’s policy of land socialism and an FBI sniper will shoot you dead or force you to live in a government cage for many years, as occurred two days ago in Oregon. Occupy almost any other public space anywhere in America under the communistic banner of “Occupy Wall Street,” and the media will treat you like a celebrity; the government will leave you alone; and the booboisie will donate millions of dollars to your undefined and undefinable “cause.”





> Quit that.


I believe he's doing the right thing.  They removed that quote from the article, btw.

----------


## JK/SEA

large convoy of SUV'S and trucks heading to the refuge. Reported 10 minutes ago.

militia?

----------


## goldenequity

*Ammon and Lisa Bundy Statements*


*
Portland, Oregon Law Firm* (statements here)
http://arnoldlawfirm.com/ammon-bundy/

*01.28.2016 – Ammon Bundy Crowdfunding Legal Defense Fund:*
https://www.fundedjustice.com/en/pro...l-Defense-Fund

=================

I have no idea 'who' these people are. I DOUBT whether the Bundys have had any history w/ them.
Probably 'recommended' to them after consulting with their own attorneys.
I hope they're 'temporary'. Whoever argues their case must be licensed in Oregon.
They need the very best.

I doubt whether *this guy* qualifies as the 'very best.'

----------


## Deborah K

> large convoy of SUV'S heading to the refuge. Reported 10 minutes ago.


Can you link a report or live coverage?  I want.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Can you link a report or live coverage?  I want.



https://www.facebook.com/GSFIII/?fref=nf

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Can you link a report or live coverage?  I want.


"DefendYourbase" has no feeds up.  Santilli's feed is up, but I think his 'live' feed is being stocked with recorded segments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5obtfR5Fito

----------


## Deborah K

> https://www.facebook.com/GSFIII/?fref=nf


still can't rep you, wtf.....

----------


## Deborah K

> "DefendYourbase" has no feeds up.  Santilli's feed is up, but I think his 'live' feed is being stocked with recorded segments.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5obtfR5Fito


Isn't he still under arrest?

----------


## wizardwatson

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-or...-idUSKCN0V610F




> Fry said that the small group had been in contact with the FBI, who had pledged not to arrest anyone not subject to a federal warrant.
> 
> "(But) it turns out that if you do leave they end up charging you later, they're pressing charges on everybody who was here, it sounds like," he said. "That's like 5 years of prison sentence, its a felony. So of course if you get a felony you can't vote any more and they take your guns away."


File this under "well, duh."

Ending the standoff peacefully means "go home, we'll arrest you later."  This was probably my second or third thought when I was originally made aware of what Bundy was doing.  Even if you don't die, all y'all gonna wind up in jail.  I don't really understand the thinking.  I would have thought that they all understood best case scenario was some charges/jail time.  Maybe they will let a few go.  But they've been recording everything everyone's said, so anyone who opened their mouth talking about "defending" or making any remarks that shows they were part of the conspiracy, will most likely be charged.

----------


## GunnyFreedom



----------


## wizardwatson

> 


So he runs from the cops.
Nearly rams directly into the roadblock.
Then after this, immediately runs from his vehicle, initially raising his hands but walking all the while in deep snow, finally putting them down and fiddling with his jacket, which certainly in court will reasonably be seen as possibly going for weapon considering the progression of boneheaded moves.

I'd say it's lucky only he died.

----------


## vita3

Stupid to try & run the roadblock & get out of car.

However, the guy in the trees shows zero restraint & good judgement. Sickening display of overforce.

Thanks for posting 

God Bless Honest Folks on all sides of the fence.

----------


## wizardwatson

FBI statement transcript that accompanied the video of the shooting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...fuge-occupier/




> Good evening. My name is Greg Bretzing, and I am the Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Oregon.
> 
> We have quite a bit of information to share with you tonight concerning the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> First, I would like to confirm that as of this morning one more person left the refuge through a checkpoint. We believe there are four others who currently remain on the refuge. Since the establishment of checkpoints, a total of nine people have left the refuge. Of those, the FBI released six and arrested three.
> 
> Secondly, I would like to confirm that the FBI and Oregon State Police have narrowed the containment zones. This was done to make it more convenient for those who live and work in the immediate area of the refuge to go about their business. To this end, Highway 205 is now open in both directions.
> 
> There has been some media reporting that the situation at the refuge is resolved. That is NOT true. Again, we still believe there are occupiers on the refuge. The negotiators continue to work around the clock to talk to those four people in an effort to get them to come out peacefully.
> ...

----------


## Deborah K

According to one of the witnesses inside the truck, they shot at them at the first stop, so they ran to get away from the shooting.

----------


## Ender

Here is a better video:




Looks like murder to me.

----------


## Deborah K

Obvious ambush is obvious.

----------


## Deborah K

> FBI statement transcript that accompanied the video of the shooting:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...fuge-occupier/


$#@! the F.B.I..

----------


## Deborah K

> So he runs from the cops.
> Nearly rams directly into the roadblock.
> Then after this, immediately runs from his vehicle, initially raising his hands but walking all the while in deep snow, finally putting them down and fiddling with his jacket, which certainly in court will reasonably be seen as possibly going for weapon considering the progression of boneheaded moves.
> 
> I'd say it's lucky only he died.


He looks like he's trying to AVOID ramming into them, he came up on them pretty fast.  He gets out, hands up, and for all YOU know, they demand he drops his side arm, which he was probably trying to do, if you have watched any videos of him and listened to how people around him referred to him.  He always wanted things to resolve peacefully - although he did state that he would never be taken alive.  And of course, the pig gov't knew that because they've been monitoring social media and they set this ambush up.  And if you watch closely, you can see one of those pigs kick him after he's been killed.

----------


## phill4paul

> 


 What the F* weapon was the L.E.O. using to the left of LaVoy?

----------


## Uriel999

Pretty sure he was using a handgun.

----------


## youngbuck

> What the F* weapon was the L.E.O. using to the left of LaVoy?


 A pistol...

----------


## phill4paul

> A pistol...





> Pretty sure he was using a handgun.





> Pretty sure he was using a handgun.


  Yeah. Something looked real disproporitonal to me and it was because the Fed was up to snow almost to his knees. Mea Culpa. Old eyes.

----------


## phill4paul

They murdered him. He got out. He wasn't "charging them." Sure, from this footage it is easy to claim that "his hands went to his waist." But if you look at the back end of 9:32 it is the agent that was advancing towards hem, gun drawn, a direct threat, that may have caused him to reach for his weapon. In fact I believe it was this agent jumping from the tree line that created the Fed narrative.

----------


## Weston White

> better odds giving up IF you really want to live. or go down in a blaze of glory. On your knees or on your feet. Not too many choices.


...Or you can trust the FBI at their word and surrender to their promise of being allowed to leave without consequence--then come to find out that you first have to identify yourself at their armed checkpoint and then have about a 40% chance of being arrested on a federal felony.

----------


## phill4paul

> He looks like he's trying to AVOID ramming into them, he came up on them pretty fast.  He gets out, hands up, and for all YOU know, they demand he drops his side arm, which he was probably trying to do, if you have watched any videos of him and listened to how people around him referred to him.  He always wanted things to resolve peacefully - although he did state that he would never be taken alive.  And of course, the pig gov't knew that because they've been monitoring social media and they set this ambush up.  And if you watch closely, you can see one of those pigs kick him after he's been killed.


  Deb , I could give you 1 million reps and still not have given enough. I think you have hit it on the nail head. This is why they have not released the vehicle and personal vid which would include audio. Release THAT Mofo's!

----------


## Origanalist

He came out, his hands are up. Something made him change that, we will never know what that something was.

----------


## Deborah K

If you watch the whole video, you'll clearly see the second male exiting the truck and throwing what is probably his side arm in the snow before he approaches.  The pigs most likely demanded Finicum to do the same and shot him anyway because they already knew it would look like he was drawing his weapon. They are cunning that way.

----------


## wizardwatson

> He came out, his hands are up. Something made him change that, we will never know what that something was.





> If you watch the whole video, you'll clearly see the second male exiting the truck and throwing what is probably his side arm in the snow before he approaches.  The pigs most likely demanded Finicum to do the same and shot him anyway because they already knew it would look like he was drawing his weapon. They are cunning that way.


Could be.  But all his actions were erratic.  The driving, the crashing, the getting out of the car, the walking instead of freezing.  Even if one of the cops was yelling "drop your weapon" while another may have been yelling "freeze", no court is going to find fault in how the cops handled it.  If he was indeed trying to comply with a disarm order by removing his pistol, it was simply his last bad decision in a series.  Always freeze, freeze, freeze, unless you're absolutely sure all the cops yelling at you want you to take a specific action.

----------


## Origanalist

> If you watch the whole video, you'll clearly see the second male exiting the truck and throwing what is probably his side arm in the snow before he approaches.  The pigs most likely demanded Finicum to do the same and shot him anyway because they already knew it would look like he was drawing his weapon. They are cunning that way.


This video shows to me that he was coached into making a gesture that justified them murdering him. He clearly came out in a position of surrender.

----------


## Origanalist

> Could be.  But all his actions were erratic.  The driving, the crashing, the getting out of the car, the walking instead of freezing.  Even if one of the cops was yelling "drop your weapon" while another may have been yelling "freeze", no court is going to find fault in how the cops handled it.  If he was indeed trying to comply with a disarm order by removing his pistol, it was simply his last bad decision in a series.  Always freeze, freeze, freeze, unless you're absolutely sure all the cops yelling at you want you to take a specific action.


You get your ass pulled over out in the middle of nowhere with that kind of firepower and a chopper hovering over you and see how nervous you become. It was a set up and they executed it.

----------


## Deborah K

A good lawyer could prove this was a planned ambush.  As I stated earlier, he fled the original stop because they fired shots at them.  Then he came up so fast on the road block he had to swerve to miss hitting them.  He immediately surrendered.  WTF!  They were waiting in the f'kn trees!!  They KICKED him after they KILLED him!!!! Where's your head man?!

----------


## Weston White

```

<?php// This could not have been better stated.$awesome=true;if($awesome===true){ $repShellyShelton++;  echo "Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton is awesome this many times: <strong>".$repShellyShelton."</strong>!"; }else{ echo '<img src="https://www.fbi.gov/you_will_respect_fbi_authoritah!.jpeg" height="300" width="500" alt="You Will Respect FBI\'s Authoritah!" />';}?>


```





> https://www.facebook.com/Assemblywom...46699/?fref=nf
> 
> Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton
> Nevada
> District 10
> 
> Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton
> Yesterday at 12:00am · 
> In any given generation there are men who are willing to stand for what they believe. Most of the time they are demonized and the uninformed are made to believe they are criminals. From Moses who killed an Egyptian for abusing his people, to Jesus who died on a cross as a condemned criminal, many of those who operate outside the box and promote love and justice over the current form of government are treated as outcasts and many times murdered.
> ...

----------


## wizardwatson

> You get your ass pulled over out in the middle of nowhere with that kind of firepower and a chopper hovering over you and see how nervous you become. It was a set up and they executed it.


I actually have been pulled over at night, and had 4 squad cars with pistols and shotguns drawn on me.  You do get nervous.  But his actions indicate to me that he wasn't complying.  Him not complying would be one thing under normal circumstances in a planned scenario.  But he fled into a roadblock changing the cops tactical setup.  The guy in the woods who it looks like got the kill shot was probably a less experienced guy who was never intended to see any action.  He was backup for the roadblock which itself was backup.

My opinion based on the video is that Lavoy is lucky he didn't get others in that vehicle killed.  The fact that the FBI even released this video shows how confident they are legally that this is a no brainer.

----------


## phill4paul

Finicum could have made it around the road block. An agent stepper out in front of his path ( 9:17) and instead of continueing, running over the agent and getting around the roadblock he chose the ditch. Proving mal-intent! $#@!!

----------


## Thor

Looks like an execution to me...

----------


## JK/SEA

murdered.

----------


## Origanalist

> I actually have been pulled over at night, and had 4 squad cars with pistols and shotguns drawn on me.  You do get nervous.  But his actions indicate to me that he wasn't complying.  Him not complying would be one thing under normal circumstances in a planned scenario.  But he fled into a roadblock changing the cops tactical setup.  The guy in the woods who it looks like got the kill shot was probably a less experienced guy who was never intended to see any action.  He was backup for the roadblock which itself was backup.
> 
> My opinion based on the video is that Lavoy is lucky he didn't get others in that vehicle killed.  The fact that the FBI even released this video shows how confident they are legally that this is a no brainer.


Of course they're confident. Damn, I thought you were somewhat intelligent. That completely uninformative video completely favors their pre determined narrative. it couldn't be more cut and paste.

----------


## Ender

> I actually have been pulled over at night, and had 4 squad cars with pistols and shotguns drawn on me.  You do get nervous.  But his actions indicate to me that he wasn't complying.  Him not complying would be one thing under normal circumstances in a planned scenario.  But he fled into a roadblock changing the cops tactical setup.  The guy in the woods who it looks like got the kill shot was probably a less experienced guy who was never intended to see any action.  He was backup for the roadblock which itself was backup.
> 
> My opinion based on the video is that Lavoy is lucky he didn't get others in that vehicle killed.  The fact that the FBI even released this video shows how confident they are legally that this is a no brainer.


According to the eye witness, he was not armed and his hands went down when he slipped a bit, trying to plow through slippery snow.

Also- if he had NOT gotten out of the car, everyone in it probably would have been shot.

----------


## phill4paul

> According to the eye witness, he was not armed and his hands went down when he slipped a bit, trying to plow through slippery snow.
> 
> Also- if he had NOT gotten out of the car, everyone in it probably would have been shot.


  While his hands are low he even gestures to the vehicle. Not something someone would do if intending a shoot out.

----------


## Origanalist

> While his hands are low he even gestures to the vehicle. Not something someone would do if intending a shoot out.


Will that make a difference to a jury of boobus?

----------


## Thor

Watch this:



Then listen to this:



And decide when the shooting started, when they started driving, and who was shooting when they hit the snow bank...

According to the person in the vehicle, they had already been shot at a lot before starting to drive in the beginning of the first video.

Planned execution.  They forced the prey to the road block with the sniper in the woods.

----------


## phill4paul

9:30 mark.  This is the first shot on him. Right after the hand gesture to the vehicle. I believe the shot comes from the hand gun of the tree-line agent. He turns to the treeline and reaches for his weapon at 9:32 because he has been shot and the tree line agent delivers death shots at 12' range.

----------


## Thor

> 9:30 mark.  This is the first shot on him. Right after the hand gesture to the vehicle. I believe the shot comes from the hand gun of the tree-line agent. He turns to the treeline and reaches for his weapon at 9:32 because he has been shot and the tree line agent delivers death shots at 12' range.


For his weapon, or grabs the spot where he was shot?

----------


## phill4paul

> For his weapon, or grabs the spot where he was shot?


  Possibly. It looked like he was reaching under his coat. Let me watch this again.

----------


## TheTexan

> Always freeze, freeze, freeze, unless you're absolutely sure all the cops yelling at you want you to take a specific action.


This.  My son's Compliance Techniques 101 professor teaches the same thing.

----------


## Thor

If you watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4nKVCcLjxU), at the end...  the guy in the brown behind the black pickup tailgate....  looks like it could be he fires a shot and then runs back to the front of the silver pick up after getting a shot off...  that is the the same time LaVoy reaches down to his waist / rib area and I think grabs the spot he was shot, not going for a gun...    but maybe he was grabbing a gun after being shot at...  you know, before they took off driving, and when crashing into the snow bank getting riddled with bullets....

----------


## Weston White

> supposedly shows Lavoy with hands up reaching down to inside of jacket... then back up when the shot him.


It seems in the video that they setup a roadblock at the end of fair curve in the roadway, intending to cause the driver to veer off the roadway or risk slamming head-on into the vehicles blocking the entire street.

Also that it appears that an agent jumped along the passenger side of the vehicle as it was hitting snow coming to a sudden stop, which was the same person pursuing the driver as he exited from the vehicle a few moments afterward.

Further, it actually appears, by the change in the driver's demeanor that he was being fired upon right at the agent's initial contact, so the driver appears to step over quickly though was unable to in the (powder?) snow and possibly was reaching for a weapon to fire back in his own defense, but was put down too quickly from both the front and back by the two agents that had the one-up on him--as you see also a sniper is coming out from hiding in the trees aiming a long-rifle, just as witnesses had earlier stated.

The driver exited around 9:21, confronted at 9:28, reached for chest area at 9:29, attempts to run to front of vehicle at 9:30 to 9:32, reaches for chest area again at 9:32, and drops to the ground at 9:34, agents remain pointing weapons until 9:35 and then both agents retreat to the safety of their line of vehicles, meanwhile leaving the supposedly armed driver on the ground unrestrained to die, noting also the driver never appears to move once falling down--this indicates they delivered a kill shot and knew that they had done so, and perhaps even intended to do so.

Following the agents shooting, it appears they immediately delivered several flash-bang type devices around the vehicle, while remaining hidden from sight.

Regardless, the driver was assassinated within six-seconds of being contacted.  Ergo, another instance of instant lethal-force by LEO.  

Also, this violates general policy on felony stops, the vehicle occupants are commanded out one at a time in a uniform manner and arrested while a clear line of fire is established by the LEO on scene--it is against protocol to charge at an occupant into the line of fire.

----------


## Weston White

Hey FBI, FTFY:





> On at least two occasions, OSP troopers shot Finicum.
> 
> At this time, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket.


ETA:  Didn't  he reach to his right side with his left hand?

----------


## phill4paul

> It seems in the video that they setup a roadblock at the end of fair curve in the roadway, intending to cause the driver to veer off the roadway or risk slamming head-on into the vehicles blocking the entire street.
> 
> Also that it appears that an agent jumped along the passenger side of the vehicle as it was hitting snow coming to a sudden stop, which was the same person pursuing the driver as he exited from the vehicle a few moments afterward.
> 
> Further, it actually appears, by the change in the driver's demeanor that he was being fired upon right at the agent's initial contact, so the driver appears to step over quickly though was unable to in the (powder?) snow and possibly was reaching for a weapon to fire back in his own defense, but was put down too quickly from both the front and back by the two agents that had the one-up on him--as you see also a sniper is coming out from hiding in the trees aiming a long-rifle, just as witnesses had earlier stated.
> 
> The driver exited around 9:21, confronted at 9:28, reached for chest area at 9:29, attempts to run to front of vehicle at 9:30 to 9:32, reaches for chest area again at 9:32, and drops to the ground at 9:34, agents remain pointing weapons until 9:35 and then both agents retreat to the safety of their line of vehicles, meanwhile leaving the supposedly armed driver on the ground unrestrained to die, noting also the driver never appears to move once falling down--this indicates they delivered a kill shot and knew that they had done so, and perhaps even intended to do so.
> 
> Following the agents shooting, it appears they immediately delivered several flash-bang type devices around the vehicle, while remaining hidden from sight.
> ...


  There is no reason to charge an opponent unless intel would gather he might respond in self defense.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Will that make a difference to a jury of boobus?


Nope...*this* is all Boobus cares about**:




> Finally  again  I want to acknowledge the stress and disruption that the occupation of the refuge has caused has to the people of Harney County. We know this is difficult. We know that you want this concluded as soon as possible. We are doing everything we can to bring this to a resolution safely and quickly.


Just make the bad men with the bad thoughts go away please, and let me continue on my aimless and useless existence.

----------


## Isaac Bickerstaff

Poorly written, leftist, inflammatory, but insight into the general ineptitude and tactical moron-ary of the occupation:

ht tp://www.triplepundit.com/2016/01/deep-pockets-behind-oregon-takeover/




> Second, and more to the honey-trap point, Ammon Bundy’s repeated calls for support are beginning to have some effect, and like-minded souls have begun to turn up in Burns and at the refuge, providing the FBI with a very convenient way to assemble a head count of every whackaloon in the U.S. who is ready and eager to participate in armed sedition, while affording those so inclined with ample opportunities to entangle themselves in Ammon Bundy’s growing net of criminal activity — which, by the way, has been liberally documented by the group’s own YouTube videos as well as by the media.


 If he had figured it out, it would explain why Finicum had to be murdered.

----------


## phill4paul

> Poorly written, leftist, inflammatory, but insight into the general ineptitude and tactical moron-ary of the occupation:
> 
> ht tp://www.triplepundit.com/2016/01/deep-pockets-behind-oregon-takeover/
> 
> 
> 
>  If he had figured it out, it would explain why Finicum had to be murdered.


  It was ill conceived and carried out from start to finish. Glen and I have taken this position from the beginning. Nothing about this op is rooted in anything other than a whim. Whims don't win win wars. They don'y even win battles. They get people imprisoned or deaded. OPs have to be planned. From beginning to end. Even if end is an ex-fil. And good Lawd almighty who ever thought of putting all the leadership into one un-escorted convoy? Unless it was an inside agent.

----------


## phill4paul

At 10:47.. after LaVoys death there is an bullet impact on the vehicle.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Possibly. It looked like he was reaching under his coat. Let me watch this again.


He had to be grabbing for where he was shot.  He carries on his right side in all the videos.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> It was ill conceived and carried out from start to finish. Glen and I have taken this position from the beginning. Nothing about this op is rooted in anything other than a whim. Whims don't win win wars. They don'y even win battles. They get people imprisoned or deaded. OPs have to be planned. From beginning to end. Even id end is an ex-fil. and good Lawd almighty who ever thought od putting all the leadership into one un-escorted convoy? Unless it was an inside agent.


Truth.  Outta rep.  Just because I think the entire Op was ill conceived and counterproductive from head to toe doesn't mean I don't sympathize with them, or that I'm not angry over this clear and obvious murder.

This looks like a straight cold blooded murder to me:




I am incensed at the bloodthirsty Governor and police who forced this to a violent conclusion when that was totally unnecessary. 

I am outraged at all the "good little citizens" around America who have been calling for their blood from the very beginning.  Some of the same people calling for their blood almost certainly participated in "Occupy" protests, damned hypocrites.

I am less angry (but still angry) at the subset of the supporters of this Op who seem to think and openly accuse anyone who does not support THIS SPECIFIC OP of cowardice, when that's straight up bull$#@!.  I'll go and lay down my life THIS VERY MINUTE if I think it will have a significantly positive outcome.  If I can look at something and KNOW from the start that it won't do any good, _but that it can only make things worse_, then why FFS would I go off and die to promote an op that I know can only make things worse?

I am 100% all for an active militia in the US.  I was 100% in favor of the Bundy Ranch op.  I was 100% in favor of the Sugar Pine Mine op.  I said from the start that this one was a bad idea and that it would only make things worse.  Lo and behold all the good will the militias had garnered defending the Bundy Ranch is now spent, and we are worse off today than we were before that time. It. Did. Not. Help.  It made things worse.  I was hated by the Republicans in NC for telling them truth that they did not want to hear, and I have been hated by supporters of this Op for telling truth that people did not want to hear.  Fine.  I learned long ago that it was my lot in life to be right when all the world is wrong, and thus to be hated for having been right.  I'm used to it by now.

There is someone else who falls into that same category, and that is Ron Paul.  As you would expect, the negative effects of the Cassandra syndrome are significantly diminished on RPFs as compared to elsewhere, but there are still a few of you boiling mad that anyone dares to think this was a bad idea. It's time to come to terms with the idea that one can be boiling mad at the feds and the local police for what they did here, that one can be 100% in favor of real armed militia ops, and still recognize that _this specific_ op was a bad idea right from the jump.  

If you still can't process that concept, fine.  I don't need people around me who are allergic to truth.

It is a horrific tragedy that LaVoy was murdered by the feds in cold blood.  And murdered in cold blood he was.  Nothing but sadness has come out of this event, and dozens of hard-core Patriots who we will need in the future when it comes to take the right stand will now be locked away in prison when that day comes.  A key component to tactical and strategic victory is to have the realism necessary to recognize when an operation does not work, and to learn to avoid the same mistakes in the future.  In that light, some good things HAVE come out of this op in the form of lessons learned:

1) In any operation, once in the AO plan to stay there for the duration.  No matter how much the feds promise safe passage in and out of the area, it is a lie, they are setting you up.

2) Never, never, never put all of your entire leadership into the same boat.  If whatever situation requires the leadership to travel, they must be dispersed amongst as many transports as possible with as much separation between them as possible, and if possible, each of them taking completely different routes.

3) Public opinion is at least as important if not more important than tactical advantage.  This is 4GW now, we no longer live in a 3GW world.  Local overwhelming support is even more critical.

4) OPSEC must not be neglected.  A big part of the reason this ended badly was because members were caught on camera saying things that should never have been  broadcast.  Absolutely use cameras and absolutely use live feeds -- these are critical for public and local support -- but keep identities off camera as much as possible, and for heaven's sake never ever discuss anything strategic, tactical, or involving readiness in front of one.

5) The leadership of any given Op _must_ come from militias local to the situation who are invested in the issue and in the community.  If the local militias do not want the Op, then don't do it.  Live to fight another day.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> FBI statement transcript that accompanied the video of the shooting:
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...fuge-occupier/


This makes Ryan Payne look even more shady than I already thought, IMHO

----------


## Weston White

Federal Criminal Complaint Lays Out Case Against Bundy Crew
Complaint says Ryan Payne emailed about bloodshed, John Ritzheimer threatened a woman in Safeway, and Pete Santilli recruited on YouTube.

Bundyland Security Chief Ryan Payne: Its Legal To Kill A Cop Whos Unlawfully Trying to Arrest You
Missoula Independent profile offers fullest picture of Bundyland security chief.

Freedom Fighter 
When rancher Cliven Bundy engaged in a standoff with the BLM, a Montana man initiated a call to action to militia across the country. He considers it just the first battle in a war to reclaim America.

----------


## Isaac Bickerstaff

The fact that Bundy thought they had backers, the lack of a clear mission objective, the government's hands-off approach until things were wrapping up anyway, and the way the whole thing just was set up to fail from the beginning makes me strongly suspect the honey trap theory.

----------


## goldenequity

*Close-up* of the shooting of Lavoy Finicum





*VIDEO 1* Long Gun Shooter
*mark 8 thru 13* show when he dropped his hands
*I see 3 movements to the inside:* 2 with his left hand/arm to his pocket and 1 with his right hand/arm to inside his coat
*@8 & 9:* 2 movements appear as left hand reaches (twice) into left pocket
*@ 10:* a quick move with left arm fully extended out towards his truck, starts to pivot
*@ 11:*  he pivots to face his truck 
*@ 12:* finishing pivot, he reaches right arm across his chest to left side inside of his coat (his third movement)
*@13:* he stiffens and stands straight up, clearly being hit from long gunner closing in on his left

*VIDEO 2* Hand Gun Shooter
*@23:* Clearly shows shooter on his right *FIRING before and as* his hands came down
*he was taking hits* DURING THE ABOVE 3 MOVEMENTS from the hand gun shooter on his right.

*ENHANCED*

----------


## Natural Citizen

That looks like drone footage, btw. FBI said it came from a plane. I don't think so. Doesn't look like plane footage. Planes don't maneuver like that.

Of course, that may have been mentioned here already. I haven't read the thread since yesterday.

----------


## goldenequity

*Lavoy teaching the Constitution also Natural Law: (Claim/Use/Defense)* (so ANYONE can understand

----------


## Weston White

> Poorly written, leftist, inflammatory, but insight into the general ineptitude and tactical moron-ary of the occupation:
> 
> //www.triplepundit.com/2016/01/deep-pockets-behind-oregon-takeover/


Bilge:




> All funds go to benefit the Malheur refuge and the local Paiute community, as well as a gun control reform group and the *Southern Poverty Law Center*, the longstanding civil rights organization that tracks hate groups.

----------


## tod evans

$#@! Heidi Beirich and the SPLC.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> $#@! Heidi Beirich and the SPLC.


Not even with _your_ stick.



:shudder:

----------


## Natural Citizen

Eeeyew. Blech.

----------


## Isaac Bickerstaff

That is what made me think it was a set up. If even left-tard brownshirt apologists sense government conniving, it may be so.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Make no mistake... Goons gonna goon.  It's one of the natural laws.  These hut-hut goons have only one thing on their mind and that's gooning everyone they can.  We've let them grow so huge that it's going to be a big project to get the goons restrained from gooning...

----------


## Deborah K

> The fact that Bundy thought they had backers, the lack of a clear mission objective, the government's hands-off approach until things were wrapping up anyway, and the way the whole thing just was set up to fail from the beginning makes me strongly suspect the honey trap theory.


Ryan Payne. Who is he???  He came out of nowhere and ingratiated himself with the Bundys; ran the Oathkeepers out on a rail during the Bundy stand-off; lied about his military experience as a Ranger (or at least it can't be proven, not even by him); conveniently converted to Mormonism (the Bundys are Mormons); and became Ammon's right hand man. 

When a fed plant has your ear and your trust, you _can't_ win.

----------


## Deborah K

> Bilge:


It's called civil disobedience Heidi!  Where was your fat ass when Ferguson and Baltimore were burning down in protest??

----------


## mrsat_98

> Where was their backup/over watch ?
> 
> AND WHY WERE THEY AMBUSHED ON THE WAY TO A MEETING?





> Bilge:





> It's called civil disobedience Heidi!  Where was your fat ass when Ferguson and Baltimore were burning down in protest??


WTF do you expect from the liberal mindset, They had their Bird Sanctuary.

----------


## phill4paul

> Truth.  Outta rep.  Just because I think the entire Op was ill conceived and counterproductive from head to toe doesn't mean I don't sympathize with them, or that I'm not angry over this clear and obvious murder.
> 
> This looks like a straight cold blooded murder to me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am incensed at the bloodthirsty Governor and police who forced this to a violent conclusion when that was totally unnecessary. 
> 
> ...


 * You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyFreedom again.*

----------


## youngbuck

> This makes Ryan Payne look even more shady than I already thought, IMHO


  I agree.  Ryan Payne was suspicious from the very beginning.  Then he's the one person to exit the vehicle Finicum was driving before it continued and eventually went of the road.  Maybe he knew it was a trap, that there was another (final) roadblock ahead, and knew they might take volley fire.

----------


## Deborah K

*****Memorial Services*****

We again thank everyone for your support and prayers during this time of mourning.  We will be holding funeral services on Friday, February 5th in Kanab, Utah at our church house.  The address is 1436 S. McAllister Dr.  The visitation will be held at 11:00 am to 2:00 pm MST, and the service will be from 2:30 to 4:00 pm.  We invite all those who would like to pay their respects to attend these services in memory of Lavoy Finicum; Husband, Father and Grandfather.

I want to go to this.

----------


## phill4paul

> This makes Ryan Payne look even more shady than I already thought, IMHO


  Well it definitely blows the hell out of McConnells account that he says that he got second hand from Payne.

----------


## libertyjam

> What the F* weapon was the L.E.O. using to the left of LaVoy?



actually I noticed that in reviewing the video also, and am pretty sure it was definitely not a handgun, but was a  fully automatic sub-machine gun that can be held like a pistol.  Looked most like an H&K MP5K or a Beretta Model 12.

----------


## libertyjam

> A good lawyer could prove this was a planned ambush.  As I stated earlier, he fled the original stop because they fired shots at them.  Then he came up so fast on the road block he had to swerve to miss hitting them.  He immediately surrendered.  WTF!  They were waiting in the f'kn trees!!  They KICKED him after they KILLED him!!!! Where's your head man?!



Not to mention that the road block was purposely set around a blind curve , so that by the time he saw them at his speed he could only go into the snow bank or hit them, no other choice.

----------


## libertyjam

> It was ill conceived and carried out from start to finish. Glen and I have taken this position from the beginning. Nothing about this op is rooted in anything other than a whim. Whims don't win win wars. They don'y even win battles. They get people imprisoned or deaded. OPs have to be planned. From beginning to end. Even if end is an ex-fil. And good Lawd almighty who ever thought of putting all the leadership into one un-escorted convoy? Unless it was an inside agent.



Well we can almost assuredly identify two FBI infiltrators now from their immediate post ambush statements, one in each vehicle to boot.

----------


## Weston White

Still no video updates since the convoy moved in last night?

https://www.youtube.com/user/DefendYourBase

----------


## Anti Federalist

> * You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyFreedom again.*


Covered

----------


## youngbuck

> Still no video updates since the convoy moved in last night?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/DefendYourBase


  I've been looking for updated info, haven't found any.  At one time the guy that was live streaming had to buy more data to continue uploading.  Maybe he ran out of money?

----------


## jth_ttu

I've watched the video.  When and how did Ryan bundy get shot?

----------


## youngbuck

> I've watched the video.  When and how did Ryan bundy get shot?


  He supposedly got shot in the arm.  But I've read several places that it was either a minor wound, like a graze, or that it was shrapnel from gun fire.  Probably happened when they were shooting at the vehicle before it crashed into the snow bank, or when they were tossing flashbangs and shooting tear gas rounds at the vehicle after killing Finicum.

----------


## jth_ttu

Is the msm saying the vehicle was shot at? I feel like this pretty much proves it.

----------


## youngbuck

Can anyone view Barbara Berg's facebook?  She was the last one in there between the checkpoint and the refuge, providing regular updates and trying to mediate between the FBI and the last 4-5 holdouts.

----------


## Deborah K

The OathKeepers, specifically Stewart Rhodes, are conspicuously silent about the murder - aside from FB postings of Bundy's stuff.

----------


## dannno

> Not even with _your_ stick.
> 
> 
> 
> :shudder:


You would think somebody that fat would be more appreciative of people who make food.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

New video from DefendYourBase

----------


## Occam's Banana

> You would think somebody that fat would be more appreciative of people who make food.


"The gummint makes muh foodz" ... (a.k.a. "You didn't builld that" ...)

----------


## Dr.3D

> Not even with _your_ stick.
> 
> 
> 
> :shudder:


Wow, no wonder pork isn't kosher.

I wonder if she likes Pringles®.

----------


## tod evans

> I wonder if she likes Pringles®.


Has she been taught how to open the can?

----------


## Dr.3D

> Has she been taught how to open the can?


One would think the canvas store where she has her clothing made would have shown her how to do that.

----------


## tod evans

> One would think the canvas store where she has her clothing made would have shown her how to do that.


Looks from here like she's eaten 'em can-n-all......

----------


## mrsat_98

no bond for y'all qaeda  

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/no-b...-flight-risks/

----------


## Uriel999

> Has she been taught how to open the can?





> Looks from here like she's eaten 'em can-n-all......


You beat me to it! I was going to say she doesn't peel the can.

Also: http://pacificpatriotsnetwork.com/




> OFFICIAL CALL TO ACTION
> 
> Update: January 29, 2016
> 
> In light of the events that have taken place in Harney County, Oregon over the last two days, the official Pacific Patriots Network statement is as follows:
> 
> PPN condemns the violent action taken by the Harney County Sheriff's Department along with the FBI in the shooting death of Mr. Lavoy Finicum.
> 
> PPN condemns the violent action taken by the Harney County Sheriff's Department along with the FBI in the execution of arrests associated with the people at the Malhuer National Wildlife Refuge occupation.
> ...

----------


## goldenequity

The Resource Center is an unlawful possession of and by the Federal Government. 
*THEY* are the unlawful occupiers of the land.
There *IS* no Constitutional ground on which they stand.
Period.

It IS a question of *TYRANNY* and brute force. Not courts and legal argument.

I am behind the PPN 'call to action' 100%.
=============

I fully understand you Gunny. I respect your logic. I also believe in right vs. wrong.
David had no chance against Goliath.
People gotta do what they gotta do. 3 percent.

----------


## pcosmar

> I am behind the PPN 'call to action' 100%.


HOW DO THEY EXPECT TO ARREST ANYONE PEACEFULLY?

unarmed peaceful protest only gets you on file.. and up for any charges they wish to file against you.

Peaceful has been tried.

----------


## goldenequity

> Peaceful has been tried.


I know. It sounds like a quote from the lips of hundreds before us.
Thousands (tonight) are in the valley of decision.

----------


## pcosmar

> I know. It sounds like a quote from the lips of hundreds before us.
> Thousands (tonight) are in the valley of decision.


I suppose so. Who are these PPN? The ones that negotiated Jason Patrick into a cell? (and he was never leadership)

The same ones that ran off the militia?  No Long Guns? WTF? who are they and what do they think they are doing?

People are going to have to get on the same page .

----------


## JK/SEA

its hopeless. they win, they will always win. no one gives a $#@! except a few with courage and balls. If there's a 'next time, hellfire missiles will be used. Militia groups are fine, but in this day and age, they are pretty useless. I'll defend my own home the best way i know, but defending against that kind of evil is a fools game. Bend over, and hope for the best. I understand these assasin squads use organic lube.

----------


## goldenequity

It's not hopeless Jk...
the scenario goes like this:
thousands stand.
hundreds get slaughtered.
The US military rebels and we have a military coup.
We need one. Then a Praetorian Guard.
It can happen.

----------


## JK/SEA

> It's not hopeless Jk...
> the scenario goes like this:
> thousands stand.
> hundreds get slaughtered.
> The US military rebels and we have a military coup.
> We need one.
> It can happen.


i don't know. I really don't think it will, or can happen, and besides, i don't like the idea of good men being killed like that. Working through the courts is our best hope now, and i hope the courts take pity on the Constitution...and us.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> i don't know. I really don't think it will, or can happen, and besides, i don't like the idea of good men being killed like that. Working through the courts is our best hope now, and i hope the courts take pity on the Constitution...and us.


Sorry, the "courts" are bought and paid for.  Nothing good likely to come out of there...

----------


## 69360

I can't make a determination from that video. But my gut feeling is that the cops got jumpy and overreacted when he lowered his hands to his side and shot him dead. I think he would be alive right now even after running if he kept his hands up. My thought is the blame for this mainly falls on the cops, but i have some doubt of possible suicide by cop because of his prior statements. But I can't wrap my head around why what seems like a decent family guy would want to die like this.

----------


## donnay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFOCLO8lGFU

----------


## pcosmar

> i don't like the idea of good men being killed like that.


I don't either. it happened.. and it keeps happening. and it will keep happening until somehow these armed gangs are stopped.

----------


## pcosmar

> I can't make a determination from that video. But my gut feeling is that the cops got jumpy and overreacted when he lowered his hands to his side and shot him dead. I think he would be alive right now even after running if he kept his hands up. My thought is the blame for this mainly falls on the cops, but i have some doubt of possible suicide by cop because of his prior statements. But I can't wrap my head around why what seems like a decent family guy would want to die like this.


He was running because they wanted him stopped where he died. 

That is where the ambush was set.  

They were not supposed to stop early,,they were not approached  as a "traffic stop".. they were coaxed down the road.

----------


## Weston White

> People gotta do what they gotta do. 3 percent.


I have been wondering, what ever happened to those Idaho III that covertly assembled a few weeks ago, there was supposedly upwards of 100-200 that moved in over several days, Pete Santilli had interviewed the organizer (can't recall his name), I have not heard anything about them after that.

----------


## Occam's Banana

The mighty Will Grigg:

*Tyranny, Defiance, and the Death of LaVoy Finicum*
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...-of-lavoy.html
_William Norman Grigg (28 January 2016)_

LaVoy Finicum, who was shot at a roadblock by Oregon State Troopers and  left to bleed to death in the snow, was not a violent criminal. He and  his colleagues from the group calling itself Citizens for Constitutional  Freedom were traveling to John Day, Oregon to organize political resistance to federal control over lands in the western United States.

After trying to run the roadblock, Finicum plowed his vehicle into a  snowbank. He exited with his hands in the air, staggering in the snow  before making a motion with his right hand that the FBI claims was an  effort to grab a handgun. Another possibility is that Finicum, as some  witnesses claim, was shot while his hands were raised in a posture of  surrender, and that his subsequent movements were involuntary. 

The carefully planned ambush, which displayed detailed intelligence  regarding the plans of Finicum and his friends, was a joint operation  between the FBI and the Oregon State Police. It was was not carried out  in defense of persons or property, but to enforce the will of those in  control of the Regime. Finicum, a 55-year-old rancher from Arizona, had  become the subject of a federal warrant after renouncing his grazing contract with the Washington-based usurpers who control range lands in that state. 

The night before he was killed on Oregon’s Highway 395 in an  FBI-orchestrated ambush, Finicum had denounced the “escalation” he had  seen on the part of government officials seeking to end the CCF’s  occupation of the Malheur National Refuge. On several previous occasions  Finicum – who had raised cattle and scores of foster children -- made it clear that he would rather die than spend the balance of his life immured in a government cage.

Reasonable people can contend that the occupation was an imprudent  provocation. That criticism can apply with equal validity to many  similarly imprudent acts carried out by idealistic but obnoxious men  during the 1760s and early 1770s, and now celebrated (in sanitized form)  by inmates of the government-operated school system. Many of the same  people who numbly absorb annual recitations of Patrick Henry’s oration at the Old South Church  will see Finicum as a fanatic who committed “suicide by cop,” rather  than someone for whom “Give me liberty, or give me death” was a credo,  rather than a cliché. 

After being shot multiple times, Finicum fell on his back – but he  didn’t die instantly. The video captured by an FBI surveillance aircraft  showed him lifting his hand imploringly, and holding it up for several  seconds before he lost consciousness.

None of the officers on the scene approached Finicum to disarm him and  render medical assistance while there was still a chance to save his  life. In the press conference that served as a debut for the FBI’s snuff film,  Greg Bretzing, a spokesman for the American Cheka, explained that  potentially life-saving aid was withheld while the officers took Ammon  Bundy and four others into custody.

This emphasis on “force protection” reflects the wartime priorities of  an occupying army. Fallen enemy combatants are not owed the same  consideration as criminal suspects. Thus Finicum’s mortal remains were  left sprawled on the frozen ground, in a posture eerily reminiscent of  the body of Lakota Chief Bigfoot following the vengeful Seventh  Cavalry’s massacre at Wounded Knee.

The federal statute under which Ammon Bundy and six other members of the  CCF have been charged, 18 USC section 372, offers no protection  whatsoever to the persons and property of U.S. citizens. That measure,  enacted in 1861, is designed to protect “officers” of the federal  government (including administrative personnel and other bureaucrats) as  they prey upon the Regime’s subjects.  It originally targeted actual  and suspected sympathizers with the Confederacy, which in practice meant  anybody who respected and defended the right of states to withdraw from  the Union, even if motivated by an ignoble cause.

After the Confederacy was defeated and the once-voluntary Union was  repurposed into a Soyuz, the same measure was frequently pressed into  service during the thirteen-year military occupation of the South. A Justice Department memo written in 1977  noted that “although this provision is more than 100 years old, it has  been infrequently used. Most recorded cases have involved internal  revenue agents whose efforts to track down tax-evading operators of  illegal stills met with resistance.” 

Those anti-Bootlegger operations, significantly, continued for decades  after the Regime ended the exercise in authoritarian derangement called  alcohol prohibition: The 1977 memo cited three cases that occurred over  the previous twelve years, the latest reaching the Supreme Court in  1971. The purpose of the memo, significantly, was to provide the FBI  with a legal rationale for investigating and prosecuting, under the  rubric of “conspiracy to impede federal officers,” acts that were not  explicitly criminalized by other federal statutes. 

The “conspiracy to impede” statute “did not even contain a requirement  that an overt act be done in furtherance of the conspiracy before the  conspiratorial conduct would become actionable,” pointed out Assistant  Attorney General John M. Harmon.  “The broad purpose of protecting the  Federal presence as fully as possible supports a broad, rather than  narrow, reading of the word `officer,’” he continued. Thus it was the  Justice Department’s opinion that “the term `officer’… includes both  permanent and temporary, full- and part-time officers and employees of  the United States.”

Sixteen federal tax-consumers are usually stationed in the cluster of  buildings at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. They act as a salient  representing an unaccountable federal bureaucracy that has usurped local jurisdictions by seizing land that was not theirs by right or constitutional mandate. Indeed, the  federal claim to the land in Harney County, Oregon rests entirely on  illegal settlement by white ranchers in violation of treaty obligations  with the Paiute Indians.

Unlike the peaceful protest by the CCF, the illegal occupation of what  would become Harney County in the 1870s did involve violence and  extensive property damage – and it was actively encouraged by the Feds  as a way of consolidating control over territory to which they were not  entitled. That act of land larceny was “legitimized” in the fashion described by St. Augustine.  A “government,” he explained in The City of God, is simply a gang that  "acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues  peoples," and then achieves legitimacy "not by the renouncing of  aggression but by the attainment of impunity."

Although the CCF did express its intention to use force in self-defense,  the “occupation” of the vacant headquarters buildings – which would be  considered trespassing, if they were legitimately owned by a definable  victim – was not achieved by violence. But because the action undermined  the local franchise of a Regime claiming a universal monopoly on  violence, it was treated as an act of terrorism. 

In her sophomoric screed called a “criminal complaint,” FBI Special Agent (she is, to be certain,  a _very_  “special” agent) Katherine Armstrong uses quadruple hearsay to depict  the “occupiers” as a nest of terrorists bent on wreaking bloody havoc in  Harney County.  After the “occupation” of the refuge began, “BLM was  notified … by a Harney County Sheriff’s Officer that a source informed  him that the group … had explosives, night vision goggles, and weapons  and that if they didn’t get the fight they wanted out there they would  bring the fight to town.” 

None of this was true, of course, and the conveniently anonymous  “source” is hidden beneath redundant layers of official deniability. The  only “fight” conducted by the CCF was a quixotic campaign “to restore  and defend the Constitution,” as Armstrong’s criminal complaint observes.   This kind of seditious talk was enough to cause Harney County Sheriff  Dave Ward, who displayed canine docility in doing the bidding of his  federal masters, to irrigate his skivvies. 

The CCF, quavered Ward in a January 27 press conference,  “have chosen to threaten and intimidate the America they profess to  love.” No being in whom we can find even a faint flicker of rationality  could genuinely believe that _anybody_ -- let alone _the entire country_  -- was threatened and intimidated by the “occupiers.” But people whose  position in society depends on the threat and exercise of lethal  violence are intimidated by those who are prepared to call their bluff. 

This, more than anything else, explains why LaVoy Finicum was left to  die in the snow while his killers hurled flash-bang grenades at the  terrified survivors in his vehicle. State-inflicted death is the last  argument of tyrants, particularly those who fear that defiance may  become contagious.

----------


## goldenequity

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFOCLO8lGFU


*Transcript of Victoria Sharp*
http://northwestlibertynews.com/wp-c...-Recording.pdf
(I started from the above PDF and formatted/corrected for readability & accuracy - G. 
*DONE.*)

"All of them had like a laser on us.. 
and like.. 'Turn off the car and put your hands out the window!' ...all this stuff.. 
He's like... [LAVOY] he stuck his hand up and continued (unintelligible)... he's like 'I'm not!'  
he's like... 'We’re going to talk to the sheriff right now.' 
He's like... 'You can haul us in that's fine... but we're talking to the sheriff..' 
He said 'Either you can put a bullet through my head right now and get it over with,
or we’re going to talk to the sheriff.'

"And um... and they were like, no and um... and they're like.. stuffing it up..
and a bunch of more guys were coming out and and all pulling their guns out.

And they [LAVOY/PAYNE] were like 
'We got women in the car.' (unintelligible)

"It was me and this other lady in the car that I don’t know real well, 
but it was really getting crazy..
 'Get the women out of the car! Get the women out of the car!' (unintelligible)

"and um.. they were going to shoot..
..and Ryan Payne, like he was in the front seat. Ryan Payne is amazing. He’s incredible.
But anyhow, he was like.. he put his hands out the window and he was trying to talk to them, 
he was like... he wanted the guy to just, he was like.. 'I don’t know if it’s worth it.' 

"So he [PAYNE] put his hands out the window and said 
'We have women in the car, at least let the women get out!' 

"And he stuck his head out and they shot at him, but they missed him...
or like he ducked just in time, they didn’t hit him." 

"..and then they're [POLICE] like, 
'Oh they [LAVOY GROUP] mean business... they [LAVOY GROUP] are going to shoot us [POLICE].' 

"and so um... Ryan decided to get out of the car and try to go talk to them...
and so he gets out of the car." 

"and then um... 
the guy [LAVOY] tried to like um talk to them... the um.. the driver with my friends... says
'I’m just going to drive.' says.. 'I’m just gonna talk to the sheriff,' 
and he's like.. he's like.. 'So either shoot me now or let us.. or leave us alone.' 

"and so they just wanted you to put your..
'Get out of the car and put your hands up!'

"But finally, he.. he [LAVOY] decides to just drive. 
So we all got down on the floorboard and he took off.. 
and then they started firing at us... 
They were shooting a bunch of times."

"...and then they had a roadblock set up
and so he ran into a snow bank
and they were like riddling the car with bullets..."

"..and then um... like when we crashed... we stopped for a second, 
he [LAVOY] got out of the car and he had his hands in the air, and... 
he's like he's like... 
'Unless...' he's like.. 'Just shoot me then... Just shoot you want?.. Just shoot me.' 

"..and they did, they shot him dead, they.. he.. they shot him like right there... 
so he was just walking.. with his hands in the air."

"..and I thought I swear to God...  Just walking...
with his hands in the air... and they shot him... and they shot him dead."

"...and after he was down on the ground , they shot him three more times, 
and then they bombarded our vehicle with bullets flying...." 

"Ryan got hit in the shoulder... they were literally stranded on the floor boards screaming. 
and they gassed us [TEARGAS] like five times...

"and they kept trying to shoot us, and... the angle... their angle was bad so.... 

"...I don't know... We were praying like so hard... 
It was like we're screaming 'Stop! Please stop! Please stop!"

"and they were just riddling us with bullets... They kept gassing us over and over...
and um... we couldn’t breath because of the gas..."

"and um... We were trying to find something white, so that we could put a white flag out...
and then... I was trying to see cuz..." 

"..like Ryan.. he got hit in the shoulder... 
so he was like.. 'Well, I don’t think it’s too bad though.'

"So then... we were just trying to find a way to get out... of there.. and then... then they um.. hold on.. I'm waiting... "

*Listen Victoria, I recorded your testimony.*

"um.. Ok."

*Alright? Because if anything happens to you... I think it's really important to have that.*

"Alright."

*Ok? So let's just get this clear... ah Mr. Finicum's hands.. or Finicum's hands were in the air when he was shot.*

"Yes. He.. he.."

*Was he standing?*

"..he.. hands were straight up... his hands were still up after he was dead."

*Okay.. they shot him, he went down and they shot him again on the ground?*

"Yes, they shot him like at least six times.“

*The newspaper reports are just saying that three shots were fired, but that’s a bunch of... that's not true.*

"NO, are you kidding me? They shot at least a 120 shots probably all together."

*OK..*

"..like they were shooting the car... and it's like a lot."

*What side of the windows were the windows blown out on?
The left or the right side?*

"Left."

*Left side.. Ok.. and uh..*

They kept hitting the right side of the car too, but the windows didn’t come out.
They were hitting the metal and not the glass."

*Ok, so not one shot was fired by any body in the car or by Lavoy?*

"No, no one even touched their gun." 

*No one touched their gun.*

No one pulled their gun out. NO one touched a gun. We had no rifles.
A couple of guys had sidearms on, but no one touched them.
In fact they had their hands out the window to show they weren’t firing.
Nothing. We showed no aggression at all."

*When Ryan Bundy was shot... both his hands were out the window? And his head was out the window?*

"No... at the time he was on the floor of the car cause that was when they were shooting at the vehicle.
We couldn’t get out of the car or we would have been dead."

*Right. Ok. So, how many police vehicles or how many vehicles would you say were involved in this encounter? Ah, FBI vehicles etc*

"Uh, you know, I didn’t count I was really shaken up when I got out,
but we all noted there were a ton of vehicles. I don’t know maybe 40 altogether?
There were tons.

"...and there were people in the trees. It was an ambush set up. 
an ambush or something.. cause it was snipers and people in the trees cause we saw them....
They were all pointing their lasers. I had like 20 lasers on me when I was getting out of the car."

*OK, so Lavoy got out of the driver’s seat?*

"When he crashed into the snow bank, he immediately got out of the car.
... and he had his hands in the air and it was like 'Just shoot me then.'
because he didn’t want to go down.... he did not want to die.... 
he had his hands in the air...
and said, 'Are you just gonna shoot me?' 
And then they just shot him."

*And, how many shots would you say that were fired when they shot him the first time?*

"The first time he got shot?"

*When they shot him did you hear multiple rounds?*

"Yes I did. He got hit by several people. It was simultaneous.
We were like 'What??'

"We couldn’t believe it. It was.... it shocked us because he had his hands in the air."

"We couldn’t believe they were actually going to shoot him. And like.. 'What?? Is he dead?'
'Is he dead??'

"..and I was like.. We knew that he had gotten shot.
..and I screamed 'Get Help!!'

"I just want to help him.. then they started firing at the car the vehicle again
and they wouldn’t let us out.
Oh it was so scary!"

*About how long would you say they started firing at the car before it finally stopped?*

"Some where between five and ten minutes. (unintelligible)"

*Victoria we’re gonna be praying for you. OK?
I have this recorded because I fear for your life. You are one of the few people.
You’re not under arrest but you are a direct witness to what happened, so I wanted to get this down.
I wanted to document this as well as I could.*

*So Lavoy was driving the car and Ryan was in the front seat?*

"No, Ryan Payne was in the front seat... but during the incident, he got out when they first stopped us.
He [LAVOY] stopped in the middle of the road and told them 'We.. we’re going to talk to the sheriff.' 
...and when they fired the first shot.. it was actually at that point.... 
Ryan Payne had both his hands out the window and his head..
and they shot at him."

*That was the first shot?*

"That was the first shot."
And that’s when we knew they meant business... that they were serious.
and that they..."

"I’m talking so much... [unintelligible] so um... That was the first shot."

"and then he [PAYNE] ended up getting out of the car, cause they stopped shooting."

"He got out of the car.... and then after we started driving again, 
that‘s when they started shooting at us again.
so. .but we had lasers on us the whole time. They were ready to shoot."

*Ok, so Ryan got out of the car. Did he ever get back in the car before you took off?*

"No. He was arrested, or he was taken into custody at least... I don't know if he.. uh
cause [when] all of us were taken into custody, he was [then] with us.
We all got transferred together and then they separated all of us."

*And that’s Ryan Payne you’re talking about?*

"Yes."

*Where was Ryan Bundy?*

"He was in the back seat of the car besides me. 
I was actually fallen asleep on him right when we got pulled over.
I was asleep and I woke up and the whole thing started going down.
He was sitting to the left of me."

*So you were in the middle?*

"Yes, Shauna Cox was on my right."

*Who was?* 

"Shauna Cox."

*Shauna Cox on your right, Ryan Bundy on your left. And you were heading to go see the Sheriff?*

"We were going to this meeting that was going on, so all of us showed were going to sing
The sheriff [PALMER] was gonna be there and a bunch of ranchers
and we were going to try to talk and maybe do some negotiations, and we were gonna sing... and that was all.
And we were ambushed."

"I mean it was known that we were gonna go...
so they probably just decided to use that area maybe because it was really wooded and everything.
and we didn’t have any phone service so..."

*OK, so listen I’m going to be up. So if you want to call me at any time during this.. 
OK, because I can’t do much, I can pray for your guys.. 
but I can also try to document as best as possible to make sure that.. um..
this story is not.. because right now the media is reporting that three shots were fired.*

"Oh NO!. That’s a total lie.. but of course the media is going to report that... but
Are you kidding me?"
"Have you seen the car? Have you seen the vehicle?
It was completely covered with gunshots!!"

*Well, no, they’re not going to release that because they don’t want...*

"and He’s [LAVOY] probably got ( unintelligible ) holes within himself!!"

*Ok.. well I'm just telling ya.. so.. Well let me ask you this.. um... Do you want this story to get out?*

"Absolutely."

*Ok, so I’m gonna stop the recording and I'm gonna see how well it’s turning out...
I want to be able to determine if I can hear you clearly... and .. determine yunno
I mean I'm willing to get this out there to any media outlet that I possibly can... um.. independent media but..
um... I need to know... yunnoum..  so Is your family back at the refuge?*

"No. Hold on a second... Someone's calling me... I think it's my mom.. um...  oh I need to let you go I think it's my mom."

*Ok.. um.. call me back.*

[end transcript]

============

*Final Update: Done!*

----------


## Lucille

> no bond for y'all qaeda  
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/no-b...-flight-risks/


Mornin'!  Why do I suspect you had more sympathy for the OWS protesters?  I'll neg you again as soon as I'm able.

----------


## Ender

> *Transcript of Victoria Sharp*
> http://northwestlibertynews.com/wp-c...-Recording.pdf
> (I worked from the above PDF and formatted/corrected for readablility - G. *I need to work on it some more/will finish this afternoon.*)
> 
> "All of them had like a laser on us.. 
> and like.. 'Turn off the car and put your hands out the window!' ...all this stuff.. 
> He's like... [LAVOY] he stuck his hand up and continued (unintelligible)... he's like 'I'm not!'  
> he's like... 'Were going to talk to the sheriff right now.' 
> He's like... 'You can haul us in that's fine... but we're talking to the sheriff..' 
> ...


If I'm reading/seeing correctly, looks like that little film was a fake.

----------


## goldenequity

This is a tedious process... it's not easy. 
When it's finished I will email it to the law firm for Bundy.
Anyone can help. Just PM me with any corrections. Thanks in advance.
G.

----------


## Weston White

Several more videos posted, here is the guy that warrant (it seems to be the married one that made statement the other day to kill anybody that gets in their way of making it to the refuge) having a phone conversation with Hammond's attorney, on speaker starting at about 34:00:





And a bit more here:



He mentioned at one point that personnel carriers have surrounded them from the distance, and a drone is maintaining close proximity to them.


Oh, he also mentioned something about not trusting somebody that ranted on Facebook, is aligned with the Oathkeepers, got drunk in a hotel the other day and who never carries a weapon, could he have been speaking to Pete Santilli?

----------


## RDM

Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant

http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alt.../#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA

----------


## Weston White

> Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant
> 
> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alt.../#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA


Bad URL?

----------


## phill4paul

> Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant
> 
> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alt.../#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA


503




> Service Unavailable
> 
> The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.

----------


## goldenequity

> Rat: Alternative Media Host Who Snitched on Oregon Militia Was Already a Known FBI Informant
> 
> http://wtfrly.com/2016/01/29/rat-alt.../#.Vq0Rn3NOnqA


*Service Unavailable

The server* is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.

----------


## 69360

> He was running because they wanted him stopped where he died. 
> 
> That is where the ambush was set.  
> 
> They were not supposed to stop early,,they were not approached  as a "traffic stop".. they were coaxed down the road.


That is entirely possible and plausible. I'm not convinced of it, but I don't discount your theory.

----------


## youngbuck

> He was running because they wanted him stopped where he died. 
> 
> That is where the ambush was set.  
> 
> They were not supposed to stop early,,they were not approached  as a "traffic stop".. they were coaxed down the road.


  That is exactly how it appears to me.

----------


## Weston White

Sounds like their speaking with a sheriff first name of Doug, a constitutional sheriff from Idaho:




Possibly:

http://idahocounty.org/sheriffs-office/

----------


## mrsat_98



----------


## phill4paul

> 


  STFU. Neg in bound for wasting my time.

  ETA: Damn gave a + rep.  Would someone please counter.

----------


## PursuePeace

//

----------


## PursuePeace

> STFU. Neg in bound for wasting my time.
> 
>   ETA: Damn gave a + rep.  Would someone please counter.



Done. I've never neg repped anyone.
But sorry, that was just ridiculous.

----------


## Indy Vidual

Ed Harris?
No, look at the inside top of the ears.
Patty Hearst .... LOL.

----------


## armstrong

they need a negotiator , Rand should volunteer , talk about coverage

----------


## pcosmar

> they need a negotiator , Rand should volunteer , talk about coverage


negotiator?

What is here to negotiate? and negotiate with who?

they are in a very simple place and seem to have come to terms  with it.

----------


## sparebulb

I'm quite sure that the negotiations would go something like this........

----------


## JK/SEA

> they need a negotiator , Rand should volunteer , talk about coverage


negotiations didn't go so well for Lavoy. 

not gonna happen...comply or die.

----------


## Deborah K

> 


You are purposely making a mockery out of the cold blooded murder of a patriot.  You sick $#@!!

----------


## armstrong

negotiator?

 What is here to negotiate? and negotiate with who?

 they are in a very simple place and seem to have come to terms with it. ,,,,,,,,,well the state and federal authorities , primarily state-- for freedom, It exposes nationally the issues at hand and that cant hurt. just my two cents ,seems to me their is a lot of issues going on .

----------


## PursuePeace

LIVE: Rolling Protest 
Edited to add - Just heard her say this is a "precursor for Monday, and on Monday they are planning a huge rally.."

----------


## Thor

> If you watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4nKVCcLjxU), at the end...  the guy in the brown behind the black pickup tailgate....  looks like it could be he fires a shot and then runs back to the front of the silver pick up after getting a shot off...  that is the the same time LaVoy reaches down to his waist / rib area and I think grabs the spot he was shot, not going for a gun...    but maybe he was grabbing a gun after being shot at...  you know, before they took off driving, and when crashing into the snow bank getting riddled with bullets....


Somebody else concurs with the man in brown who gets off a shot and runs back to the silver pick up...

----------


## pcosmar

"You take the high road,, and I'll take the low road.".

I was banned from THR,,

----------


## phill4paul

> "You take the high road,, and I'll take the low road.".
> 
> I was banned from THR,,


  The gun forum, Pete? What fer?

----------


## libertyjam

Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton,  Comments to story: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...35691143246699*Second Eyewitness: Chronicling the Tragic Ambush and Murder of LaVoy Finicum*Second eyewitness, Shawna Cox, from inside the truck with LaVoy Finicum tells the same story as the first. Both of them from their own perspective, both with the same major details.
1) At the first stop Law Enforcement fired shots at them after they had their empty hands out the window.
*Law Enforcement has allowed the media to go with the narrative that excludes that information for two days now. Why would they knowingly allow a false narrative?
2)The supposed "eyewitness" MARK - who got the media in a frenzy reporting that LaVoy "charged" the officers - was the person who insisted they ride together in those two vehicles and made them hurry. His video that the media took as an eyewitness account showed him as being adamant that LaVoy was NOT shot in cold blood. Shawna Cox says he was lying and that they were all saying he was shot in cold blood.
*Who put this guy up to leading the media with false information like that? Shawna says he was new there and had only been there a few days, but he orchestrated the timing of the trip to the other county. This "Mark" made another video yesterday recanting his account, but we have heard nothing of that in the media. Why would the media refuse to correct a mistake like that? And if this guy was being used by law enforcement why, after all the denials of harassing Burns residents, would no one consider the possibility that someone was put up to harassing them just to make the protesters look dangerous?
3) The eyewitness says they were fired upon right away and LaVoy and the vehicle was under fire as he exited with his hands up. She thinks hundreds of rounds were fired.
*Initial FBI reports claimed three rounds were fired. Why would they report that?
4) Shawna claims they were fired upon for a long period of time in the vehicle as if they were trying to make sure everyone in the vehicle was killed before finally stopping. The 18 year old girl was screaming for them to stop. She also claims she started making a video before they reached the snowbank and they have taken it.
*Why would they do that? Why fire into a truck when no one had even been given an opportunity to surrender? Why do it for a number of minutes. Why produce a video with no sound? And again, why the initial claim of 3 shots fired?
5) The only inconsistency is that Shawna said LaVoy had his regular firearm on his hip. Victoria said that he put his hands out and said he was unarmed.
*If he had his regular firearm on his hip why would the FBI claim he had a 9mm semi automatic in his coat pocket and not mention the one on his hip? Why would Fox News last night claim he had a 40 caliber in his pocket? There is reported video of one of the occupiers who left the refuge after his death wearing LeVoy's revolver and holster that he had left at the refuge for his trip to the meeting. Could this be why the FBI never made a claim that he had a firearm on his hip? And could Shawna have just assumed he had it on because he wore it all the time at the refuge? These are questions that need to be answered.
6) Both witnesses say LaVoy was adamant that he was going to the Sheriff. It was a place where he could have refuge and supposed safety. Once they fired on them at the first stop he was trying to get to the Sheriff of Grant County.
*If this is the case he was running TO law enforcement not FROM them.
The girls stated that they refused to get out of the truck at the first stop for fear of their lives after shots were fired. With an open road ahead and a friendly Sheriff in the next town it appears LaVoy was trying to save lives. Where is the main stream media on this?
7) Both ladies stated he was shot with his hands in the air. Both say shots were fired on the truck before they were given any opportunity to surrender for a long period of time.
*Why would they do that? How was a truck with windows up, an imminent danger to them? Were they expecting to have no survivors? Shawna even goes on to say that after they surrendered and were in cuffs they were asked if anyone was in the truck. When they said no, Law Enforcement didn't believe them and fired more rounds into the truck. Why would they do that? And how does that line up with the reported 3 shots fired?
These are questions the media should have been asking long ago.
What has happened to our media? It is a national disgrace.
I, along with many Americans are calling on Law Enforcement to produce all the video of this tragedy.
We are calling for you to produce the truck and the evidence of the three shots you reported.
We are calling for video with audio of the first stop and an answer as to why you allowed the media to mislead the people into thinking LaVoy just took off for unknown reasons.
We want answers.
I am personally calling for at least ONE officer who is willing to come forward and tell America the truth, good or bad. Verify the shots at the first stop, verify the details of the entire event. The media will not do their job. Someone needs to step up and show America that they can put their faith in Law Enforcement. We are begging you to restore faith in Law Enforcement that has been lost. If mistakes were made NOW is the time to just tell the truth and let the healing of our nation begin. If mistakes were not made we still need to know.
As of this writing there are still four protesters at the refuge who were told they would be free to go right after LaVoy was killed. Now they are being told they can go, but one of them has to face charges. They do not believe the FBI anymore. They think they are going to die.
I am asking any and all honest Law Enforcement officers to go to Burns Oregon and provide them safe passage out. To date the most harm they have done is a little property damage. It isn't worth watching them die or seeing any more bloodshed just because they no longer trust the word of the FBI. This is not the time to provoke scared men and women into a gunfight!
And lastly someone must look into the cause of all of this and shut down FBI and BLM operations in Burns till they come to the truth of what these ranchers who are now tearing up their agreements have had to go through. With hundreds of people coming to the meetings just like the ones LaVoy was on his way to they all can't be lying. We have to get to the bottom of it, and fast.
I'm just an Assemblywoman. I have no authority to ask anyone to do anything. I'm calling this out as an American who is tired of the lies, tired of the misleading reporting, and tired of the fear.
Please, let's begin restoring trust and healing our nation.

http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/0...finicum-video/

----------


## PursuePeace

> 1) At the first stop Law Enforcement fired shots at them after they had their empty hands out the window.
> 
> ...
> 
> 6) Both witnesses say LaVoy was adamant that he was going to the Sheriff. It was a place where he could have refuge and supposed safety. Once they fired on them at the first stop he was trying to get to the Sheriff of Grant County.
> **If this is the case he was running TO law enforcement not FROM them.*
> The girls stated that they refused to get out of the truck at the first stop for fear of their lives after shots were fired. *With an open road ahead and a friendly Sheriff in the next town it appears LaVoy was trying to save lives. Where is the main stream media on this?*
> ...
> 
> 4) Shawna claims they were fired upon for a long period of time in the vehicle as if they were trying to make sure everyone in the vehicle was killed before finally stopping. The 18 year old girl was screaming for them to stop.



Excellent point.

----------


## phill4paul

> Excellent point.


  MSM is controlled. It is the mouth organ of the government. All it does is regurgitate it's empty pablum into the craw of it's hatchlings. Hatchlings that think they gain nourishment and succor from it when in reality they are left malnourished and maladjusted so that they will never survive without the feeder.

----------


## Deborah K

> Assemblywoman Shelly Shelton,  Comments to story: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...35691143246699*Second Eyewitness: Chronicling the Tragic Ambush and Murder of LaVoy Finicum*Second eyewitness, Shawna Cox, from inside the truck with LaVoy Finicum tells the same story as the first. Both of them from their own perspective, both with the same major details.
> 1) At the first stop Law Enforcement fired shots at them after they had their empty hands out the window.
> *Law Enforcement has allowed the media to go with the narrative that excludes that information for two days now. Why would they knowingly allow a false narrative?
> 2)The supposed "eyewitness" MARK - who got the media in a frenzy reporting that LaVoy "charged" the officers - was the person who insisted they ride together in those two vehicles and made them hurry. His video that the media took as an eyewitness account showed him as being adamant that LaVoy was NOT shot in cold blood. Shawna Cox says he was lying and that they were all saying he was shot in cold blood.
> *Who put this guy up to leading the media with false information like that? Shawna says he was new there and had only been there a few days, but he orchestrated the timing of the trip to the other county. This "Mark" made another video yesterday recanting his account, but we have heard nothing of that in the media. Why would the media refuse to correct a mistake like that? And if this guy was being used by law enforcement why, after all the denials of harassing Burns residents, would no one consider the possibility that someone was put up to harassing them just to make the protesters look dangerous?
> 3) The eyewitness says they were fired upon right away and LaVoy and the vehicle was under fire as he exited with his hands up. She thinks hundreds of rounds were fired.
> *Initial FBI reports claimed three rounds were fired. Why would they report that?
> 4) Shawna claims they were fired upon for a long period of time in the vehicle as if they were trying to make sure everyone in the vehicle was killed before finally stopping. The 18 year old girl was screaming for them to stop. She also claims she started making a video before they reached the snowbank and they have taken it.
> *Why would they do that? Why fire into a truck when no one had even been given an opportunity to surrender? Why do it for a number of minutes. Why produce a video with no sound? And again, why the initial claim of 3 shots fired?
> ...


I want to see the truck.  I want to hear the audio that you know damned well was recorded.  It will further corroborate the witnesses.  I hope the Finicum family attorney demands it.

----------


## Weston White

In that newest video, with the zoom in it is clearly seen that the video blurs at the exact moment the agent at the vehicle appears to have fired the first shot, I wonder if that was intentionally edited in by the FBI prior to release?

----------


## pcosmar

> The gun forum, Pete? What fer?


Never did find out,, (night of the long knifes)

----------


## phill4paul

> Never did find out,, (night of the long knifes)


  Ain't that a peach.

----------


## PursuePeace

> MSM is controlled. It is the mouth organ of the government. All it does is regurgitate it's empty pablum into the craw of it's hatchlings. Hatchlings that think they gain nourishment and succor from it when in reality they are left malnourished and maladjusted so that they will never survive without the feeder.


You summed it up quite well.

----------


## pcosmar

> I want to see the truck.  I want to hear the audio that you know damned well was recorded.  It will further corroborate the witnesses.  I hope the Finicum family attorney demands it.


and then what?

Serious Question.. and not trying to pick..

What if they give all the evidence that it was a set up ambush and murder.

No one will  be punished.. if it is prosecuted at all,,it will be done so poorly as to deliberately blow the case.

and then what?

----------


## phill4paul

> and then what?
> 
> Serious Question.. and not trying to pick..
> 
> What if they give all the evidence that it was a set up ambush and murder.
> 
> No one will  be punished.. if it is prosecuted at all,,it will be done so poorly as to deliberately blow the case.
> 
> and then what?


  Indeed. We have plenty of evidence of what actually happened at Waco. No one has been prosecuted. No one has even so much as lost their promotion.

----------


## Weston White

Whoever, is running Santilli's livestream, a female, just did a very depressing video that was not posted for review, she made it sound that those remaining on the refuge are adamant that they are not leaving until the issues on the table are resolved or they are killed; and that they are making their final arrangements--not certain if she is being overly dramatic, sounding a bit indifferent now.

Also, no updates since yesterday evening from DefendYourBase.

Still streaming now at:

----------


## Deborah K

> and then what?
> 
> Serious Question.. and not trying to pick..
> 
> What if they give all the evidence that it was a set up ambush and murder.
> 
> No one will  be punished.. if it is prosecuted at all,,it will be done so poorly as to deliberately blow the case.
> 
> and then what?


It remains to be seen.

Here is Evan, LaVoy's son:

----------


## phill4paul

> Whoever, is running Santilli's livestream, a female, just did a very depressing video that was not posted for review, she made it sound that those remaining on the refuge are adamant that they are not leaving until the issues on the table are resolved or they are killed; and that they are making their final arrangements--not certain if she is being overly dramatic, sounding a bit indifferent now.
> 
> Also, no updates since yesterday evening from DefendYourBase.
> 
> Still streaming now at:


  Why does it seem every one in this world I inhabit is an idiot. Does no one plan for next phases and what-ifs? Has Santelli never had a guest/sometimes host that could have taken over for him? In an emergency or black out. You know? Like a professional would do. No. Ego never allowed for that possibility.

----------


## Deborah K

wrong thread

----------


## pcosmar

> Aaaaaannnd, since we're on the subject of Ryan Payne, here is the thread that covered that subject, you know, just to refresh everyone's memories:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...t-Not-a-Ranger!!


And wtf does that matter. He was not a "Ranger".

but then he never said he was.. other personalities said he called himself a ranger.

He was in a ranger unit...verified.. he is a combat vet, verified..

He was in a small local militia that was called mountain rangers..

He never said he held any title of "Ranger" ,,and for what it is worth,,the only actual Tag wearing Ranger I ever knew was a complete idiot.
Couldn't read a map.  Worthless all day long.. that is what "ranger" is worth.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> I want to see the truck. I want to hear the audio that you know damned well was recorded. It will further corroborate the witnesses. I hope the Finicum family attorney demands it.





> and then what?
> 
> Serious Question.. and not trying to pick..
> 
> What if they give all the evidence that it was a set up ambush and murder.
> 
> No one will  be punished.. if it is prosecuted at all,,it will be done so poorly as to deliberately blow the case.
> 
> and then what?





> Indeed. We have plenty of evidence of what actually happened at Waco. No one has been prosecuted. No one has even so much as lost their promotion.


As tod evans would say, "There is no justice to be found within their system" ...

The "value" of Waco (if I may be permitted to speak so) did not consist in the "justice" that was meted out to the criminals who were involved (i.e., the ATF, FBI, DoJ, etc.), but rather in the "wake-up call" that was sent to a lot of people who otherwise would have remained oblivious to certain important facts of reality. I know this, because I was one of those people.

Although I was generally "libertarian" at the time, I was not particularly "radical" or "extreme" prior to what happened at Waco. But I experienced a profound revelation upon seeing the flagrant contempt exhibited by the State and others for anything even remotely resembling the "rule of law": the utter disregard for human life and human decency, the brazen destruction of critical evidence _in situ_, the supine compliance of the media in uncritically parroting the "official" narrative, etc., etc., _ad nauseam_. Waco was a seminal event in the evolution of my perspective, one that gave concrete substance to what were previously, at most, mere hypotheticals and theoretical abstractions.

While this whole Harney county affair, culminating (thus far) in the death of LaVoy Finicum, does not rise to the level of Waco, any further exposure of the government's murderous malfeaseances (and of the narrative white-washings that inevitably accompany them) cannot be a bad thing. This is why the production of forensics that may dispositively contradict the government's narrative is important - not because it will result in the prosecution, conviction or punishment of any of the State's goons (it almost certainly won't do any such thing), but because it will expose more clearly (to those who do not refuse to see) just what a vicious and fraudulent sham is the notion that the government is here to "serve and protect" anyone or anything except itself. And in so doing, it will add another straw or two to the camel's back ...

Of course, as I mentioned in another thread, I would not be at all surprised if the truck Deborah K wants to see ends up disappearing or being otherwise rendered useless as evidence of anything (just like what happened to the front door and numerous other _objets d'intérêt_ from Waco).

----------


## mrsat_98

> You are purposely making a mockery out of the cold blooded murder of a patriot.  You sick $#@!!


I'm sorry if it comes out of the main stream media and fits the governments agenda I am skeptical of it. A thinking person will question what he hears; examine what he sees; and evaluate what others would have him believe.  Think of it this way, if the event was staged, unlikely as it may seem to be, they have made you the "sick $#@!!" at the very least the MSM has made this one very polarizing issue. 

If it was me I don't think I would load up my guns and go to a place considered to the territory of a pack of rabid animals i.e. gov. with more and bigger guns than I have and wait for the inevitable outcome.

----------


## tod evans

Justice will not be found in their courts.

----------


## mrsat_98

https://youtu.be/v3zDNW4qxdA?t=114

Link to request for talent release




video of request for talent release




Entire video of above some dudes opinion on what the request for talent forms means.




Is this the same witness that was at many other events.

----------


## goldenequity

*Shawna Cox* interviews w/ Dave Hodges 'The Common Sense Show' last night.



> This may be Shawna Cox’s final interview to the media. 
> During the course of the 30 minute interview, she told me she fully expected 
> to be the victim of a gag order issued by a federal judge when she appears in court on Monday 
> to face federal charges of impeding federal officers.


http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/20...pecial-report/

*Audio:* http://mediaarchives.gsradio.net/com.../hr3013116.mp3




=====================

*Previous Interview* (a better quality audio)
*begins @ 4:29*

----------


## Athan

> I ain't the guys there.. but I would be low crawling to a safer location,, and cutting my heat sig to a rabbit.  
> 
> till I could find a herd to walk with.


Look at dis Solid Snake right here. Genuine Tactical Espionage Action.

----------


## pcosmar

> Look at dis Solid Snake right here. Genuine Tactical Espionage Action.


I'm new to this neighborhood, this ain't "my" woods.

but this winter is considerably milder,, and I am much nearer.

No one has handed me a rifle yet,, and they are still getting to know me.

I do have an invitation to the City Council meeting tonight,  and intend to go..should be educational.

----------


## Deborah K

> I'm sorry if it comes out of the main stream media and fits the governments agenda I am skeptical of it. “A thinking person will question what he hears; examine what he sees; and evaluate what others would have him believe.”  Think of it this way, if the event was staged, unlikely as it may seem to be, they have made you the "sick $#@!!" at the very least the MSM has made this one very polarizing issue.


Go ahead and change your story.  Everyone reading this thread saw your little John Wayne meme as well so don't expect _me_, anyway, to believe your new narrative.





> If it was me I don't think I would load up my guns and go to a place considered to the territory of a pack of rabid animals i.e. gov. with more and bigger guns than I have and wait for the inevitable outcome


The above comment reveals your ignorance about LaVoy, what happened to him, and why.

----------


## Deborah K

> Link to request for talent release


Signed release forms are needed by certain media to protect them against a lawsuit for filming.  That has already been explained by one of the tubers in the "sieged" building.

----------


## goldenequity

*Burns LIVE* 
(the weekend's 'Rolling Protest', call for support, and event for today was well advertised)
at the bottom of the rabbit hole..... you will find the country *really is* the divided spectacle we're looking at.

Remember trying to explain Ron Paul to your family? ... that the 'undeserving' ACTUALLY had a 'chance' to elect him as their leader???
The COUNTRY threw Dr. Paul under the bus... not just the 'media' and PTB.
The OSP 'ambush' perfectly characterizes Law Enforcement... coast to coast.
Texas needs to secede... or Montana or somewhere... I feel like 'these' aren't my 'people' anymore.
I want to leave them.
Leave them to their choice.
Start 'rebuilding' with my brothers and sisters.
I don't need 'Sea to Shining Sea' anymore. It doesn't really 'exist' anymore... for me.

It took them a hundred and one score years to build this comfortable prison w/o bars.
The inmates like it. Like their TV and GMO and Walmarts. They're happy with the political carnival
and bi-annual promises.

Face it. We are 'Strangers in a strange land.' 
If you're Christian... this world is not your home.
It really feels 'foreign' lately. (sigh)

If 'Trump' is the 'bell weather' of things to come...
it's going to get *REALLY* bizarre and absurd. 
It will make even LESS sense than it does now.
It will get bloodier and more divided.
More polemic with psychopathic referees and steroided storm troopers.

Farewell Lavoy. You made me cry.

----------


## phill4paul

> *Burns LIVE* 
> (the weekend's 'Rolling Protest', call for support, and event for today was well advertised)
> at the bottom of the rabbit hole..... you will find the country *really is* the divided spectacle we're looking at.
> 
> Remember trying to explain Ron Paul to your family? ... that the 'undeserving' ACTUALLY had a 'chance' to elect him as their leader???
> The COUNTRY threw Dr. Paul under the bus... not just the 'media' and PTB.
> The OSP 'ambush' perfectly characterizes Law Enforcement... coast to coast.
> Texas needs to secede... or Montana or somewhere... I feel like 'these' aren't my 'people' anymore.
> I want to leave them.
> ...


  Missed it. Not streaming anymore. I'm in agreement with much you say.

----------


## jllundqu

There's a protest in Phoenix tomorrow to support Ritzheimer and the AZ folks that got popped.  It'll be at the US Courthouse downtown.

----------


## Thor

> *Burns LIVE* 
> (the weekend's 'Rolling Protest', call for support, and event for today was well advertised)
> at the bottom of the rabbit hole..... you will find the country *really is* the divided spectacle we're looking at.
> 
> Remember trying to explain Ron Paul to your family? ... that the 'undeserving' ACTUALLY had a 'chance' to elect him as their leader???
> The COUNTRY threw Dr. Paul under the bus... not just the 'media' and PTB.
> The OSP 'ambush' perfectly characterizes Law Enforcement... coast to coast.
> Texas needs to secede... or Montana or somewhere... I feel like 'these' aren't my 'people' anymore.
> I want to leave them.
> ...


Free State Project?

----------


## goldenequity

*INTERVIEW (recorded)*  with remaining 4-5 at the Refuge




*Current LIVE* (The streaming video was recorded @ Burns grievance protest) 
The *current audio* is being livestreamed from 4 folks at the Refuge (There is: David Fry, Sean/Sandy (H&W) and 1 other guy)

----------


## TheNewYorker

I've seen the HD video. Clearly murder. They shot first

----------


## goldenequity

*The Legality of The Oregon Standoff*

----------


## goldenequity

> *INTERVIEW (recorded)*  with remaining 4-5 at the Refuge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Current LIVE* (The streaming video was recorded @ Burns grievance protest) 
> The *current audio* is being livestreamed from 4 folks at the Refuge (There is: David Fry, Sean/Sandy (H&W) and 1 other guy)


*Live audio streaming w/ Refuge Center 4 is now over.*
A tenative setup/repeat for a livestream chat could happen again tomorrow if their cell phone RX/TX is not shut down.
They have no internet capability now to broadcast from the refuge as their youtube account was shut down.

----------


## goldenequity

> *Shawna Cox* interviews w/ Dave Hodges 'The Common Sense Show' last night.
> 
> http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/20...pecial-report/
> 
> *Audio:* http://mediaarchives.gsradio.net/com.../hr3013116.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Professor Doom compares/analyses Mark McConnell testimony* with Victoria Sharp and Shawna Cox

----------


## goldenequity

Fighting Back: Utah's Governor Calls On States to Take Back Lands from Feds

----------


## goldenequity

> Fighting Back: Utah's Governor Calls On States to Take Back Lands from Feds


*Donald Trump: Don't hand federal lands to states*
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-t...nds-to-states/



> "I don't like the idea because I want to *keep the lands great*, and you don't know what the state is going to do,"


(such an eloquent intellect. The country deserves him.)

----------


## Uriel999

> *Donald Trump: Don't hand federal lands to states*
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-t...nds-to-states/
> 
> (such an eloquent intellect. The country deserves him.)


That is why he actually is brilliant with this.

The way he talks appeals to the averageperson.

Intelligence is not rewarded in this country.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

So what's the state of affairs. Protest Harder next time?

----------


## Deborah K

> So what's the state of affairs. Protest Harder next time?


Change public opinion.  For starters, convince all of the black lives matter (BLM) folks, that the Ranchers' cause with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) is the same cause as theirs.  That ALL of us are under tyranny now.

The fedgov is clever, I'll hand them that!  They knew they had a tool in Mark McConnell and cleverly let him go an hour later.  His fake account (since he saw NOTHING) was the first released - "He charged them" (something he repeated over and over).  His account got over 345 thousand views - was on all the channels that bothered to covered this, and got 7600 shares.  The narrative was set in place and then the Feds released their video that makes Finicum look like he's reaching for a weapon.  It sealed the deal in the minds of the average American.

Through social media, it is incumbent upon those of us who know the truth to get the truth out there.  Let's start there.

----------


## Deborah K

Clive Bundy says "Ranchers, it's your fault..."

http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/arc.../#.VrDJhJzSnVJ

----------


## libertyjam

http://www.kgw.com/news/witness-insi...group/28542430

Shawna Cox: Insider helped police arrest Bundy group
Michael Rollins 5:34 PM. PST February 01, 2016

----------


## libertyjam

*Was a stolen 9mm handgun planted on LaVoy Finicum after his death by the FBI?*Posted on February 1, 2016
https://lozzafun1.wordpress.com/2016...th-by-the-fbi/

*~@ An interesting development… Witness’s stated that Lavoy left his guns at the refuge, that they all did… Is it true?… Darned if I know but ‘if true’,  this claim puts a big hole in the official story…**source*According to the Pacific Patriots Network, the serial number of the 9mm gun the FBI claimed was found on LaVoy Finicum came up STOLEN over 2 years ago.

That serial number is 54119868.

Barbara Davis on facebook said LaVoy was shot 9 times, and his body is back home now, but the funeral will be closed casket.

Barbara was the one that put out the call for the serial number according to the post on Facebook,  which they are saying has now been removed.
*From: Joanne
Date: February 1, 2016
Subject:Finican murder**This looks weird because i had to take a photo of it. Facebook wouldn’t let me forward the original which came from my reliable source. And, It has disappeared. They are majorly into a censorship mode.
Joanne



*

----------


## staerker

*Obviously I respect the family's wishes*, but man, I would not have a closed casket ceremony if I were them. Let the world see the injustice. It's the only thing that will spur any movement, sadly.

----------


## goldenequity

> *Was a stolen 9mm handgun planted on LaVoy Finicum after his death by the FBI?*Posted on February 1, 2016
> https://lozzafun1.wordpress.com/2016...th-by-the-fbi/
> 
> *~@ An interesting development… Witness’s stated that Lavoy left his guns at the refuge, that they all did… Is it true?… Darned if I know but ‘if true’,  this claim puts a big hole in the official story…**source*According to the Pacific Patriots Network, the serial number of the 9mm gun the FBI claimed was found on LaVoy Finicum came up STOLEN over 2 years ago.
> 
> That serial number is 54119868.
> 
> Barbara Davis on facebook said LaVoy was shot 9 times, and his body is back home now, but the funeral will be closed casket.
> 
> ...


*Everything about it is a lie.*
https://www.facebook.com/TheVoiceofI...type=3&theater
and 
https://www.facebook.com/TheVoiceofIdaho/

----------


## libertyjam

> *Was a stolen 9mm handgun planted on LaVoy Finicum after his death by the FBI?*
> 
> Posted on February 1, 2016
> https://lozzafun1.wordpress.com/2016...th-by-the-fbi/
> 
> *~@ An interesting development… Witness’s stated that Lavoy left his guns at the refuge, that they all did… Is it true?… Darned if I know but ‘if true’,  this claim puts a big hole in the official story…*
> 
> *source*
> 
> ...




*Citizens for Constitutional Freedom Support Group
*https://www.facebook.com/CitizensForConstitutionalFreedom.NEWS/?fref=nf
A post is going around about the weapon allegedly found on LaVoy and the number of times he was shot. Though I have heard this information from a few trusted sources, the information is still second hand. Because I have not been able to independently verify the accuracy information, I do not feel comfortable disseminating it to others at this point. Should I obtain such verification, I will post the information along with its source. Thank-you.

----------


## Deborah K

> *Was a stolen 9mm handgun planted on LaVoy Finicum after his death by the FBI?*Posted on February 1, 2016
> https://lozzafun1.wordpress.com/2016...th-by-the-fbi/
> 
> *~@ An interesting development… Witness’s stated that Lavoy left his guns at the refuge, that they all did… Is it true?… Darned if I know but ‘if true’,  this claim puts a big hole in the official story…**source*According to the Pacific Patriots Network, the serial number of the 9mm gun the FBI claimed was found on LaVoy Finicum came up STOLEN over 2 years ago.
> 
> That serial number is 54119868.
> 
> Barbara Davis on facebook said LaVoy was shot 9 times, and his body is back home now, but the funeral will be closed casket.
> 
> ...


This just keeps getting worse...

----------


## Deborah K

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-s...schallenge.pdf

----------


## Deborah K

It's okay for the government to kill citizens, trust us!!   http://krisannehall.com/doj-its-ok-f...zens-trust-us/

----------


## Natural Citizen

> It's okay for the government to kill citizens, trust us!!   http://krisannehall.com/doj-its-ok-f...zens-trust-us/



A good observation on the part of the author here. And an excellent question that needs to be asked en masse...




> It is interesting to note that throughout its paper the DOJ continually appeals to the *“government’s inherent right to defend itself”* while this administration does not seem to recognize such a right among its citizens. Will we be given the same deference when we defend ourselves? Will George Zimmerman be given an inherent right to self-defense under the same standards as the government asserts? Apparently this administration only claims such a right for the government? The framers said each of us have an inherent right to self-defense (Sam Adams said, “The rights of the colonists are these; First life, Secondly liberty, and third property and the ability to defend them”).


When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Right?

----------


## jllundqu

Phoenix protesters gathering near US Courthouse to show support for Ritzheimer today.  Court scheduled for this afternoon.  Could get interesting if armed militia doods get in the face of the USMS at the court...

----------


## phill4paul

So how exactly was the PPN able to come up with the serial number of the 9mm in the first place? I'd imagine only FBI or State police have had anything to do with handling/processing the sidearm. They might have someone on the inside with access, but to get that close to something this pertinent to the situation would mean they are pretty deep in to what happened.

----------


## Deborah K

> So how exactly was the PPN able to come up with the serial number of the 9mm in the first place? I'd imagine only FBI or State police have had anything to do with handling/processing the sidearm. They might have someone on the inside with access, but to get that close to something this pertinent to the situation would mean they are pretty deep in to what happened.


I would imagine a lot of members (many of whom are x-military, x-cop types) have contacts and networking that we aren't privy to.

----------


## pcosmar

> So how exactly was the PPN able to come up with the serial number of the 9mm in the first place?


another good question..

Have any of their demands been met?  (doubts)

----------


## pcosmar

> I would imagine a lot of members (many of whom are x-military, x-cop types) have contacts and networking that we aren't privy to.


I am guessing that many are active cop types,, and lefty community organizers trying to be the non"militia".
There is a lot of Agenda 21 visibly apparent in the area. (I'm near and it is very visible)

There are more bused in protesters  against,, than there were out of state supporters of the ranchers.

----------


## phill4paul

> another good question..
> 
> Have any of their demands been met?  (doubts)


  I'm sure not a single demand has been met. Nor will they be. Not even if 1 million protesters showed up on the white house lawn. Not when waving a sign is the most you are willing to do about any situation. And theye know and count on it.

----------


## Deborah K

> I'm sure not a single demand has been met. Nor will they be. Not even if 1 million protesters showed up on the white house lawn. Not when waving a sign is the most you are willing to do about any situation. And theye know and count on it.


I do hope they _are_ counting on it.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> That is why he actually is brilliant with this.
> 
> The way he talks appeals to the averageperson.
> 
> Intelligence is not rewarded in this country.


not only is intellect nor rewarded, it is actively punished.

----------


## goldenequity

CNN Doing what they do best... sickening cover for LEO plant/throw down
installing the narrative, discrediting the witness

----------


## goldenequity

(Sovereign Citizen) 'Judge' Gary Darby calling Oregon National Guard

http://regenesisradio.com/judge-repo...-for-military/

----------


## phill4paul

> (Sovereign Citizen) 'Judge' Gary Darby calling Oregon National Guard
> 
> http://regenesisradio.com/judge-repo...-for-military/


  Except that the U.S. military _participated_ in Waco. He'll find no protection there.

----------


## goldenequity

> Except that the U.S. military _participated_ in Waco. He'll find no protection there.


Not yet.

----------


## Deborah K

> (Sovereign Citizen) 'Judge' Gary Darby calling Oregon National Guard
> 
> http://regenesisradio.com/judge-repo...-for-military/





> Judge Reports Lavoy Shot 9 Times Pleads for Military,   Major General on bringing in U.S Military, reports “French Banking” cartel has employed operatives acting falsely as FBI agents.  The Major General reports he has escalated the matter.


WTF?  Has anyone else listened to this, and do you have an opinion?

----------


## Deborah K

Who is "BlackStone"?

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

I wish people would not get distracted by "Sovereign Citizen" arguments.  I've shown many times in the past why these arguments hold no water.  The main idea behind these arguments are some "contracts" that are executed regarding your "strawman" and of course there's no way a person could be bound by such a contract.  In order for any contract to be valid you have to have a "meeting of the minds" between people of "sound mind" and "legal age".  The terms of the contract must be "fully disclosed" and understood buy all parties...

----------


## Deborah K

Gonna listen to conversation between the Judge and the Major again. The judge is claiming the people who filed the petition think the IMF aka a "french cartel" is bullying citizens there. Then at the end of the call, the Major (who the Judge is talking to) mentions the Black Stone Group. Any sleuths willing to take this on?

----------


## dannno

> I wish people would not get distracted by "Sovereign Citizen" arguments.  I've shown many times in the past why these arguments hold no water.  The main idea behind these arguments are some "contracts" that are executed regarding your "strawman" and of course there's no way a person could be bound by such a contract.  In order for any contract to be valid you have to have a "meeting of the minds" between people of "sound mind" and "legal age".  The terms of the contract must be "fully disclosed" and understood buy all parties...


What is your problem with the argument, specifically?

----------


## dannno

> Gonna listen to conversation between the Judge and the Major again. The judge is claiming the people who filed the petition think the IMF aka a "french cartel" is bullying citizens there. Then at the end of the call, the Major (who the Judge is talking to) mentions the Black Stone Group. Any sleuths willing to take this on?


Investors, real estate, etc.:




> Blackstone's private equity business has been one of the largest investors in leveraged buyout transactions over the last decade, while its real estate business has actively acquired commercial real estate.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blackstone_Group

----------


## jllundqu

> Phoenix protesters gathering near US Courthouse to show support for Ritzheimer today.  Court scheduled for this afternoon.  Could get interesting if armed militia doods get in the face of the USMS at the court...


Yeah... protest didn't happen.  No one showed up.

----------


## Deborah K

Listen to this: 




Someone grabbed the Judges's recorded phone call and editorialized.

----------


## Deborah K

> Investors, real estate, etc.:
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blackstone_Group





Blackstone Mercenaries.

----------


## DavesNotHere

Interview with attorney who represents the Finicum family.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-c....McFarlane.mp3

'Processing Distortion with Peter B. Collins: The Real Story of Oregon Standoff'
Peter B Collins | February 3, 2016

"Following his written commentary on the month-long occupation of a remote wildlife refuge near Burns, Oregon, Todd Macfarlane gives a detailed account of the history of rancher-government disputes, the Cliven Bundy confrontation in Nevada in 2014, and the occupation of Malheur by Bundys sons and others. Macfarlane spent 2 days thereunarmedand is openly critical of Pete Santilli and other hotheads at the scene. He describes the over-reaction by political leaders and media, culminating in the roadblock January 26 where the groups unofficial spokesman, LaVoy Finicum was killed. He represents the Finicum family, and is seeking answers to many important questions about the incident."...
- See more at: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016....XGPzQrCU.dpuf

----------


## goldenequity

LIVE interview w/ Victoria Sharp... it's wrapping up now but will be archived/ I will update




She called the FBI liars. 
She said they fired many, many real bullets into the car. 
She said the FBI lied when they said they fired rubber bullets/bean bags.
She said they were laughing as they went searched Lavoy's body.

She's glad she was there to testify about what really happened.

----------


## goldenequity

*Victoria gave a second interview* today
audio only
*begins at 9:58*
http://www.thenationalintelreport.co...ary-2-2016/213

----------


## WQuantrill

Grand Jury Indicts
http://www.reuters.com/article/orego...-idUSL2N15J032

----------


## pcosmar

> Interview with attorney who represents the Finicum family.


Not so sure what he represents.
Todd Macfarlane

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/bund...vide-security/

He was the one very vocal about running off all security. (who should have stayed anyway damn it)

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3391135-1...oregon-seeking

----------


## Weston White

Booking information:

Ammon
Ryan
Santilli
Cavalier
Cox
Payne
Oshaughnessy
Ehmer
Anderson
Patrick
Ritzheimer (need DOB or booking no.)

David Fry
Jeff Banta
Sean Anderson
Sandra Anderson

Cannot locate anything for Victoria Sharp in Auburn, KS at https://kdocrepository.doc.ks.gov/kasper/

Only match on a Jay booked on 2/10:




> PICKERING , JAYCE LEE	Return
> Age:	32
> Total Bond:	$0.00
> Total Cash-Only:	$6,280.00
> Booked:	02/10/16 00:49
> Court Date:	4/7/16 10:00
> Earliest Release:	
> Charges	 	Bond	Cash	Both?
> 207.200:
> ...


"Jay"




> Name #    Name                        Location                 Time Incarcerated
> 545268 COOPER, BLAINE               PURG-WEST-FBLK-MAIN-0019 11:09:53 02/11/16
> 
> https://news.washeriff.net/divisions...inmate-roster/


Blaine Cooper




> DWIGHT LINCOLN HAMMOND
> Register Number: 59886-065
> Age: 	74
> Race: 	White
> Sex: 	Male
> Located at: Terminal Island FCI
> Release Date: 02/13/2020





> STEVEN DWIGHT HAMMOND
> Register Number: 60061-065
> Age: 	46
> Race: 	White
> Sex: 	Male
> Located at: Terminal Island FCI
> Release Date: 06/29/2019


FBP link

----------


## Weston White

Article on OK, the pre-planned pursuit roadblock was very likely  illegal:

https://www.oathkeepers.org/9870-2/

----------


## tod evans

> Article on OK, the pre-planned pursuit roadblock was very likely  illegal:
> 
> https://www.oathkeepers.org/9870-2/


"Lying in wait" is a term/theory used to enhance sentencing if it were regular folks committing murder.......

----------


## goldenequity

*MURDER* (Shooters/Shots)

----------


## goldenequity

LaVoy Finicum's *Lawyer Todd MacFarlane* Gives Details On Shooting & Key Players Involved

*more:* http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016...egon-standoff/

----------


## goldenequity

*Federal Grand Jury Indictment Analysis - Professor Doom*




=====================

*Santilli*

*Rutherford Institute attorneys* took issue with the government’s case against Santilli as laid out in its Criminal Complaint, which makes clear that Santilli is being charged solely as a reporter of information and not as an accomplice to any criminal activity.
https://www.rutherford.org/publicati...imidate_journa
*
Some useful comments...*



> The divide between areas of the law that distinguish journalists from others and the areas of the law that don’t can be bridged by recognizing journalism as a public-interest function, not necessarily a particular profession.
> 
> We know there are important reasons why skilled, knowledgeable journalists are a benefit to society, but we have to recognize that those levels of skill are not necessary for the purpose of defining legal protections. This makes the case for a broad definition of journalism that relies not on the job status of the speaker or the method of communication, but on the purpose of the speech. Is it to inform the public, or is it to promote a cause or company? Is it to shed light on a meaningful controversy, or to win some other advantage? Serving the public interest is, after all, more important than simply looking at whether a journalist happens to write for a living.
> 
> But making that functional distinction too broad can render it meaningless. If all personal communications become an act of journalism, too many speakers will cynically claim the title of journalist to gain a benefit, evade coverage under a restrictive law, or keep themselves out of court, and the purpose of being a journalist will be lost.
> 
> ===================
> 
> Santilli, a "journalist" allowed himself to become part of the story which is unprofessional and wrong.
> ...

----------


## phill4paul

> Malheur Update
> BY HERSCHEL SMITH 
> 1 day, 9 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Rev. Franklin Graham has spoken with the remaining armed occupiers of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon.
> ...


http://www.captainsjournal.com/2016/...alheur-update/

I guess these guys didn't get the memo:




> Listen up--Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and everybody else. Most police shootings can be avoided. It comes down to respect for authority and obedience. If a police officer tells you to stop, you stop. If a police officer tells you to put your hands in the air, you put your hands in the air. If a police officer tells you to lay down face first with your hands behind your back, you lay down face first with your hands behind your back. It’s as simple as that. Even if you think the police officer is wrong—YOU OBEY. Parents, teach your children to respect and obey those in authority. Mr. President, this is a message our nation needs to hear, and they need to hear it from you. Some of the unnecessary shootings we have seen recently might have been avoided. The Bible says to submit to your leaders and those in authority “because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account.”


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ority-is-wrong

----------


## goldenequity

> I guess these guys didn't get the memo:


memo to the memo: When they 'tell' you to stop... and you put your hands up/out the car.. and you duck back inside to avoid bullets fired at your head...
you can skip Romans 13.

============

*Refuge Update:*
FreeNebraska.org http://freenebraska.org/wp/freenebraska-call-to-action/ 
is putting out a call to action to all Patriot organizations to make the trip to Oregon in defense of the men still occupying the compound:

FreeNebraska Call To Action




> Our leader, Lory Storm is currently in Oregon, specifically at the Detentions Center in Portland accompanied by a nationally known Constitutional Attorney, Roger Roots. They are attempting to get an audience with Ammon Bundy yet today. In the mean time, the PPN (Pacific Patriots Network), including the III%’ers are organizing and staging a protest demonstration at the entrance to the Refuge near Burns, Oregon on Saturday, February 6th.
> 
> They are asking for all Patriotic Organizations throughout the nation make a Call To Action for participation in this event. There are still 4 Patriots hold up in the compound which is now surrounded and controlled by the FBI and the Harney County Sheriff’s Dept. … access to the occupied building is now restricted to the public and the PPN is concerned about the outcome and safety of the 4 remaining occupants.


==================

Last Interview With David Fry @ Refuge Center 2/3/2016 (phone now 'out of service')

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqPX7HqDyBU

----------


## Deborah K

> Booking information:
> 
> Ammon
> Ryan
> Santilli
> Cavalier
> Cox
> Payne
> Oshaughnessy
> ...



Notice how McConnell is missing from all of this?  I get why they didn't arrest the 18 year old, but why is this $#@! who gave a fake accounting of what happened (as though he witnessed it)  missing from the list????  Why is that??

----------


## goldenequity

> Notice how McConnell is missing from all of this?  I get why they didn't arrest the 18 year old, but why is this $#@! who gave a fake accounting of what happened (as though he witnessed it)  missing from the list????  Why is that??


He'd be at the TOP of my list to subpoena as attorney for Bundy... let's see if Marc McConnell is even his real name.

----------


## youngbuck

> *MURDER* (Shooters/Shots)


I was unsure of what exactly the FBI's drone footage depicted, but after looking at that video, I'm fairly convinced the shooting was unjustified and simply a murder/ambush.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> I was unsure of what exactly the FBI's drone footage depicted, but after looking at that video, I'm fairly convinced the shooting was unjustified and simply a murder/ambush.


The way the goons blow the hell out of everything I am absolutely AMAZED that anyone in the truck survived...

----------


## DavesNotHere

> Not so sure what he represents.
> Todd Macfarlane
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/bund...vide-security/
> 
> He was the one very vocal about running off all security. (who should have stayed anyway damn it)
> 
> http://www.sltrib.com/home/3391135-1...oregon-seeking


Thanks for that info. That was new for me. Part of me understands how he/they were looking for de-escalation and how they wanted to keep it ranchers... all of me feels those involved were, at least, a little naive of how far politicians/Feds/cops were willing to go to make a statement. 

This smelled fishy from the first reports I read of LaVoy's death. The more I learn, the more it looks like The Gauntlet Part 2...

----------


## DavesNotHere

Just came across this... 

"Detailed Version"
SUPPLEMENTAL STATEMENT FROM THE LAVOY FINICUM FAMILY 
2-2-2016

"The purpose of this statement is to supplement the statement we issued earlier.  It does not contradict our previous statement, but only serves to supplement, support and add detail to our previous position.

At this point, based on the additional information we have now received, it is our position that not only was the shooting death of LaVoy Finicum completely unjustified, but that the FBI and Oregon State Police may also be engaging in a cover-up, and seeking to manipulate and mislead the media and the American public about what really happened. 

We realize this may sound like a bold statement, but now that Shawna Cox, who was a passenger in LaVoy’s vehicle, and an eye witness, has been released from custody, we have now had the opportunity to hear yet another account, and the ability to start cross-referencing all currently available information to figure out what really happened.  This has shed important additional light on the whole ordeal --especially when Cox is given the opportunity to essentially narrate what is happening in the video, from an eye witness standpoint."...

The rest of the supplemental statement-
http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-s...statement2.pdf

Article By Laura Gunderson | The Oregonian/OregonLive 
'LaVoy Finicum's family calls death 'unjustified,' says FBI covering up real story'
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta..._death_un.html

----------


## dannno

> Just came across this... 
> 
> "Detailed Version"
> SUPPLEMENTAL STATEMENT FROM THE LAVOY FINICUM FAMILY 
> 2-2-2016
> 
> "The purpose of this statement is to supplement the statement we issued earlier.  It does not contradict our previous statement, but only serves to supplement, support and add detail to our previous position.
> 
> At this point, based on the additional information we have now received, it is our position that not only was the shooting death of LaVoy Finicum completely unjustified, but that the FBI and Oregon State Police may also be engaging in a cover-up, and seeking to manipulate and mislead the media and the American public about what really happened. 
> ...


What did she say was happening when he first put his hands down? Did she say he was shot?

----------


## goldenequity

*The shot BEFORE the snow bank*

----------


## goldenequity

*FBI Command Cntr entrance vs. 1 Rancher*

----------


## phill4paul

> *The shot BEFORE the snow bank*


  They sure as hell didn't throw a snowball!

----------


## goldenequity

> Blackstone Mercenaries.


In living color...






(fyi... they were the 'fence' ranchers.. who authorized Ammon & Lavoy to 'cut' & gate.. 
*then* became intimidated to retract/lie... 
just goes to show you can never lick boots hard enough..
to ever keep the masters happy. *Once you stand... don't kneel.*)

----------


## DamianTV

> "Lying in wait" is a term/theory used to enhance sentencing if it were regular folks committing murder.......


Guilty until proven innocent = Lying in wait

----------


## JK/SEA



----------


## DavesNotHere

> What did she say was happening when he first put his hands down? Did she say he was shot?



C&P from http://media.oregonlive.com/oregon-s...statement2.pdf




>  According to Cox, because it was very obvious that LaVoy had his hands in the air and intended to keep them there, the best explanation for LaVoys arguably furtive hand movements, and why he lowered his hands and reached for his side at one point is because he had already been shot, and he was reaching toward the area where he had been hit as an involuntary physical reflex, despite his fairly obvious determination to try to keep his hands in the air, as evidenced by the fact that he once again attempted to raised his hands, before being shot again and collapsing.

----------


## phill4paul

> OFFICIAL STAND DOWN
> 
> In light of recent events that took place today and conversations with the FBI and people at the refuge, we have decided to stand down our PPN Call to Action.
> 
> The event Saturday is cancelled. For those that are on the road to assist, we will hold a memorial service for Lavoy Finicum at the site outside of Burns on hwy 395 at 1pm on Saturday.


http://www.pacificpatriotsnetwork.com/

----------


## pcosmar

> http://www.pacificpatriotsnetwork.com/


hmm,

Opposition controlled successfully.

----------


## Weston White

Could they be anymore vague?  What took place today?  What was discussed?  Why the stand down after the ball just started to get rolling?  What good is the PPN?

----------


## JK/SEA

to those already in transit to the scene, it was suggested they all have a memorial gathering at the spot of Lavoy's murder. I think i have that right.

----------


## PursuePeace

Haven't seen this posted yet:

----------


## pcosmar

If you were sitting there,,

Would you believe the FBI,, or anyone at this point??

These people have Death or Prison to choose between. Hard choice. 


edit,,
how much is that like the Presidential election?

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> If you were sitting there,,
> 
> Would you believe the FBI,, or anyone at this point??
> 
> These people have Death or Prison to choose between. Hard choice. 
> 
> 
> edit,,
> how much is that like the Presidential election?


Couldn't trust the bastards but what other option do they have??  There's no way the goons are going to let them leave that place alive unless they are in chains.  I suppose they could leave there in chains and then try to get a good lawyer to get them off with minor charges.  Don't know what they would even be charged with at this point but I'm sure they have a list of "crimes" a mile long up to and including "terrorism"...

----------


## Weston White

Why don't they just call them, certainly they have access to their cellphones?  Also, Ammon made no mention of any of this in his recent letter from jail.  So does he really feel this way?

----------


## DavesNotHere

> Why don't they just call them, certainly they have access to their cellphones?  Also, Ammon made no mention of any of this in his recent letter from jail.  So does he really feel this way?


This is from yesterday...

----------


## Weston White

So the local court, asserts that only conspiracy theorist loony jobs believe the courts are corrupt and that the justice system does not work, by acting corrupt and not following the  procedural rules that is the justice system?  Yea.

...So Ammon is telling the OSP and FBI to give up and go away, not anybody else.

----------


## DavesNotHere

BINGO!



> So the local court, asserts that only conspiracy theorist loony jobs believe the courts are corrupt and that the justice system does not work, by acting corrupt and not following the  procedural rules that is the justice system?  Yea.
> 
> ...So Ammon is telling the OSP and FBI to give up and go away, not anybody else.


Yes, he ONLY told the cops/FBI to leave LOL.

IMO, these charges are a joke... and denying defendants the right to appear in court to face those charging them!?! 

I will try to remain an optimist while (foolishly?) looking forward to lots of truth and exposure coming out in these trials. *Respect to Ammom for taking on this fight...*

----------


## goldenequity

*Impoverished Grant County Local Tells Truth* ( at John Day... where Ammon/Lavoy were headed)

----------


## phill4paul

> *Was a stolen 9mm handgun planted on LaVoy Finicum after his death by the FBI?*Posted on February 1, 2016
> https://lozzafun1.wordpress.com/2016...th-by-the-fbi/
> 
> *~@ An interesting development Witnesss stated that Lavoy left his guns at the refuge, that they all did Is it true? Darned if I know but if true,  this claim puts a big hole in the official story**source*According to the Pacific Patriots Network, the serial number of the 9mm gun the FBI claimed was found on LaVoy Finicum came up STOLEN over 2 years ago.
> 
> That serial number is 54119868.
> 
> Barbara Davis on facebook said LaVoy was shot 9 times, and his body is back home now, but the funeral will be closed casket.
> 
> ...


   It appears all the links have been scrubbed. Though I have no direct link to anything specific from FB chatter on III%'ers, PPN pages this was false.

----------


## goldenequity

*Lavoy Funeral about to stream*...
Kanab Utah
=============
*Update:* hmmm...
apparently they 'lost power' (idk) ... MSN news trucks are all there...
apparently they can 'suck/drain' your cell phone batt if you get too close? idk

they say FBI has rented all the rooms in Kanab (?? idk)
but the locals were offering them shelter (last night) ... 

funeral doesn't start til 2:30 MST... nuther 1.5 hrs...
they plan on having a horse (cowboy) parade through town (after service) ... 
apparently (some) roads are blocked off for press. 
there are militia there to "protect" ... local Sheriff is supportive... 
Kane County/Sheriff Tracy Glover called the area motels and told them to contact him if any FBI check in (to watchdog them)
Somebody said Blaine Cooper made an appearance...

*Revolution Radio* they're having trouble streaming... nothing to post yet/on standby... sorry 
https://www.youtube.com/user/weaponizedtalkradio/feed

============



Shawna Cox was there.. in defiance of the Judge's court order 
denying her permission to attend (unless something changed) 

There was the graveside ceremony... a woman was speaking..
towards the end... she was starting to sob and cry... then
someone shouted out 'Murder!' *@ 10:00*




Cliven Bundy was there on horseback.
About 2,000 attended.
An indoor Gathering/Invitation was announced to start @ 5:30pm... about now.
A workshop will be held tomorrow morning to teach/educate Ranchers.

----------


## JK/SEA

thanks..

----------


## youngbuck

I don't see LaVoy as being someone who'd have a stolen pistol...  The theory that it was planted on him seems much more likely.

----------


## pcosmar

> I don't see LaVoy as being someone who'd have a stolen pistol...  The theory that it was planted on him seems much more likely.


long time law abiding Gun Owner with several legal guns... leaves all his legal guns and acquires a recently stolen gun for this ride.

Doesn't smell right to me either.

----------


## goldenequity

*Lavoy's attorney*.. there will be an independent autopsy & they have requested an independent investigation

----------


## Schifference

Even though Lavoy's friends and family are grieving, we must acknowledge the grief that those poor law enforcement officers must be dealing with after having to shoot him.

----------


## Danke

> Even though Lavoy's friends and family are grieving, we must acknowledge the grief that those poor law enforcement officers must be dealing with after having to shoot him.



You beat The Texan.

----------


## Weston White

Is there anymore information about this:




> As a footnote, and as a precondition of her release, Shawna Cox was ordered to have all guns at her Utah home removed. After the guns were removed, her son-in-law, sitting in close proximity to the guns was suddenly and mysteriously caught in a fire in which all the guns and ammunition went up in smoke. Shawna’s son-in-law was killed in the event.


http://freedomoutpost.com/2016/02/sh...-he-lay-dying/

In the article, during the first stop, they were all just left awkwardly stopped in the roadway waiting for several minutes.

----------


## Weston White

Posted by "Black Powder":



> New David Fry Facebook message claims Pacific Patriots Network lied about making contact with remaining 4 holdouts. He says they did not threaten to shoot those wanting to escort them out of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. Fry alleges PPN is compromised.. also says FBI trolls and misinformation being spread to kill the cause.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/callmegav/v...4243976377580/

----------


## Weston White

PPN seems to have removed their notice of stand down.  There is also an update posted, LaVoy's memorial was stolen:




> Pacific Patriots Network (PPN) 
> is offering a $500.00 reward
> 
> Pacific Patriots Network (PPN) is offering a $500.00 reward for the return of all items left in memorial of LaVoy Finicum at the site of his death on Highway 395 outside of Burns Oregon.
> 
> Sometime in the past twelve hours, an individual or individuals took it upon themselves to desecrate the memorial site of LaVoy Finicum, a symbol of community grief, loss and healing. While it is evident they did not agree with Mr. Finicum’s stance, it is still a loss of life of a loved one. PPN denounces the vile action’s of those involved and will bring all of our resources to bear for the return of all memorial items.
> 
> Federal official have been in contact with PPN and made assurances county, state and federal agencies did not remove the memorial or any items associated with it.

----------


## pcosmar

> PPN seems to have removed their notice of stand down.  There is also an update posted, LaVoy's memorial was stolen:


Just keep getting more interesting.

$500.00

a head.

I would be careful what heads you hand them.

$#@! FOLKS  wake up
they got the serial# of a throw down,,, the place is crawling (literally) with LE of every stench,, and they seem (or claim to be) friendly with such.

and we see the obvious results of their aid.

who are these idiots?

----------


## pcosmar

No guys,, really..  (and with all due sarcasm)

Join up with these guys. the notorious "Michigan (woo woo) Militia".
http://www.michiganmilitia.com/



> Due to ISIS threats, we are on Yellow alert for now. Check your mags, gear, water, and other loadout. Contact your team leader or other SMVM staff.


Fed Gov team players..  proven.

ISIS threats,,  give me a break..

But they will turn you into the Feds as nicely as they did the Hutaree.. bet your life on that fact.

----------


## Weston White

DefendYourBase has been releasing videos for the past day: https://www.youtube.com/user/DefendYourBase

----------


## goldenequity

*Maureen Peltier* article
*Patriot/Veteran ALREADY* accusing Oregon/Federal Court 
of prejudiced proceedings and lack of due process.
Comin out swinging. Good to have watchdogs facebooking and Ytubing. (for once... Ima FAN of networking

----------


## goldenequity

*More insights/analysis and updates from/about the Refuge* (if you've been a follower of events... this will answer/settle some issues.)

----------


## goldenequity

LaVoy's daughters - awesome

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> LaVoy's daughters - awesome


Another good man gunned down by the goons...

----------


## goldenequity

*Texas!* **distant thunder rumbling**

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> *Texas!* **distant thunder rumbling**


Yeah, they'll fight it in the "courts" and if the "courts" rule against them they will lay down and let the goons take their land...

----------


## goldenequity

> Yeah, they'll fight it in the "courts" and if the "courts" rule against them they will lay down and let the goons take their land...


Maybe, maybe not.



> But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, 
> pursuing invariably the same Object 
> evinces a design 
> to reduce them under absolute Despotism, 
> it is their right, 
> it is their duty, 
> to throw off such Government, 
> and to provide new Guards for their future security.
> --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; 
> ...


Somewhere like Utah is tough.. being landlocked.
But when I think of Texas, it could EASILY become its' own Country.
Ports, Energy, Agriculture, Water, Minerals and a culture of Independence
plus a 'Contract' with an exculpatory clause.

What the Bundy's are modeling, i.e. local authority vs fed 'agency'
could easily catch fire down in Texas... they're sick to death of EPA, BLM,
and loose borders. They've been 'engaged' battling the Feds since Bruce Babbitt
was Sec. of Interior under Clinton. He started a LOT of what evolved into
the current tyranny/overreach.

----------


## phill4paul

> Recording of phone call by Oath Keepers to Lavoy Finicum, two days before his death, urging him and the Bundy brothers to make a “lateral, tactical move” to a constitutional sheriff’s county, to continue to spread the message of western land rights and organizing ranchers, under the protection of a strong sheriff, and warning him that all indicators pointed to the “the powers that be” being mere days away from shutting down their ability to spread that message, one way or another. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 (just two days before his death) Lavoy Finicum was a guest on Jason Van Tatenhove’s radio show (The Patriot Report)along with Stewart Rhodes, Founder and President of Oath Keepers.  On the show, they discussed how Lavoy and Ammon Bundy’s message of western ranchers resistance to federal tyranny had begun to “catch fire” and was spreading to other counties and other states, with an additional eight ranchers (including in Utah and New Mexico) stepping up to declare their “emancipation” and independence from the BLM and USFS.    They also discussed the great advantages to taking stands in counties that had strong constitutional sheriffs willing to interpose and protect the ranchers.  Here is that discussion:
> 
> SUNDAY, JANUARY 24, RADIO SHOW DISCUSSION WITH LAVOY:
> 
> <audio at link>
> ...


https://www.oathkeepers.org/new-audi...van-tatenhove/

----------


## DavesNotHere

'Pete Santilli Speaks Live From Multnomah County Jail - Monday - 2/8/16'

----------


## DavesNotHere

'Ammon Bundy to Elected Officials: Support Free Speech, Civil Disobedience'

Published on Feb 8, 2016

"Arm yourselves with ideas. Arm yourselves with education. Argue and disagree. Be free." Statement from the Jail: 2/6/2016"

----------


## Kade

> I don't see LaVoy as being someone who'd have a stolen pistol...  The theory that it was planted on him seems much more likely.


Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy waving around a gun.

----------


## Deborah K

Ughhhh.......so much wrong with this:

----------


## Deborah K

> https://www.oathkeepers.org/new-audi...van-tatenhove/


Wow wow wow!!!!!

----------


## AuH20

> Ughhhh.......so much wrong with this:


I've watched his videos before. He's correct with most of his points.

----------


## Deborah K

> I've watched his videos before. He's correct with most of his points.


Have you watched this one?  Here's my take:  He defends Mark McConnell without giving any explanation for why McConnell made $#@! up when he gave his account of what he DIDN'T EVEN WITNESS. McConnell's version is what the MSM ran with - even though it was proven later to be a lie, and of course, was never corrected by said media (no surprise there).   Listen closely to what he says with regard to Ryan Payne and Mark McConnell.

I agree with some of what he says. He's right that we're not as effective as the left because we don't work en masse. He's right that this was an unorganized, unskilled attempt at civil disobedience but ffs, these were mostly ranchers who'd had about all the $#@! they could take!!! (as Phill points out in my sig).

But to sit there and basically kiss the asses of the alphabet soup gang made me want to throw up. 

No, I didn't go up there. But I did what I could to get the truth out about what was happening. I've never heard of this guy, but based on what I just watched, he's either been compromised or he's just another bootlicker.

----------


## phill4paul

> Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy waving around a gun.


  Absolutely nobody, including the FBI, has ever said that LaVoy was seen waving around a gun. Your trolling and disinformation earns you a neg.

----------


## AuH20

> Have you watched this one?  Here's my take:  He defends Mark McConnell without giving any explanation for why McConnell made $#@! up when he gave his account of what he DIDN'T EVEN WITNESS. McConnell's version is what the MSM ran with - even though it was proven later to be a lie, and of course, was never corrected by the said media (no surprise there).   Listen closely to what he says with regard to Ryan Payne and Mark McConnell.
> 
> I agree with some of what he says. He's right that we're not as effective as the left because we don't work en masse. He's right that this was an unorganized, unskilled attempt at civil disobedience but ffs, these were mostly ranchers who'd had about all the $#@! they could take!!! (as Phill points out in my sig).
> 
> But to sit there and basically kiss the asses of the alphabet soup gang made me want to throw up. 
> 
> No, I didn't go up there. But I did what I could to get the truth out about what was happening. I've never heard of this guy, but based on what I just watched, he's either been compromised or he's just another bootlicker.


There were individuals up in the refuge who couldn't even field strip a rifle. Secondly, there were some suspicious characters that embedded themselves with Bundy. 
With all that said, another flashpoint event will likely occur in the near future. No need to sacrifice valuable assets on the roach motel known as Malheur.

----------


## AuH20

FYI If you want to help in the future, go get tactical training. I can't emphasize this enough.

----------


## phill4paul

> Have you watched this one?  Here's my take:  He defends Mark McConnell without giving any explanation for why McConnell made $#@! up when he gave his account of what he DIDN'T EVEN WITNESS. McConnell's version is what the MSM ran with - even though it was proven later to be a lie, and of course, was never corrected by said media (no surprise there).   Listen closely to what he says with regard to Ryan Payne and Mark McConnell.
> 
> I agree with some of what he says. He's right that we're not as effective as the left because we don't work en masse. He's right that this was an unorganized, unskilled attempt at civil disobedience but ffs, these were mostly ranchers who'd had about all the $#@! they could take!!! (as Phill points out in my sig).
> 
> But to sit there and basically kiss the asses of the alphabet soup gang made me want to throw up. 
> 
> No, I didn't go up there. But I did what I could to get the truth out about what was happening. I've never heard of this guy, but based on what I just watched, he's either been compromised or he's just another bootlicker.


  I think he pretty much echoed what all the militias were saying about the situation. The reason why there were no militias onsite is that the operation went against most all militias' dictum that they are for defense not offense. The taking of the refuge was an offensive stance. Again, this is from the perspective of all the militias. This is of paramount importance when forming public perception and no battle can be won without maintaining that moral high ground. In any given situation the government must be made to look as the aggressors. 
  I think the militias truly wanted to help Ammon and Finicum but that they could not put themselves in the position of losing all that they had built upon. This is the reason for the advise to the Bundy's to let the occupation go, retrench somewhere else and continue to educate.

----------


## Weston White

> Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy waving around a gun.


Crackpipe much?

----------


## AuH20

Lots of juicy info here. From Thaddeus Deane, ret. Navy SEAL. It's long so grab a cup of coffee. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...37434353020609

----------


## Deborah K

I have more thoughts on this but have to write them later....that recorded phone call sheds new light for me.

----------


## Deborah K

> There were individuals up in the refuge who couldn't even field strip a rifle. Secondly, there were some suspicious characters that embedded themselves with Bundy. 
> With all that said, another flashpoint event will likely occur in the near future. No need to sacrifice valuable assets on the roach motel known as Malheur.


Yeah, I heard him say that, but are we certain that wasn't just his opinion of the volunteers who showed up to back up the ranchers?  And, it's already been discussed that they were infiltrated.  I don't know for certain if Payne and McConnell are plants but their actions sure seem like it to me. And, the two women who had to share a "paddy wagon" with McConnell don't trust him either.  I'll trust their instincts over his, for now.

----------


## Deborah K

> I think he pretty much echoed what all the militias were saying about the situation. The reason why there were no militias onsite is that the operation went against most all militias' dictum that they are for defense not offense. The taking of the refuge was an offensive stance. Again, this is from the perspective of all the militias. This is of paramount importance when forming public perception and no battle can be won without maintaining that moral high ground. In any given situation the government must be made to look as the aggressors. 
>   I think the militias truly wanted to help Ammon and Finicum but that they could not put themselves in the position of losing all that they had built upon. This is the reason for the advise to the Bundy's to let the occupation go, retrench somewhere else and continue to educate.


Yes, I understand 'offensive' vs. 'defensive' action.  The ranchers' lack of judgment and tactics have been argued over ad nauseam.  My issue is with his response (or lack thereof) regarding McConnell's actions.  And, has anyone heard anything from Ryan Payne since he was supposedly thrown in jail?  I don't know why, but those two are stuck in my craw, I have only speculation to go on, but something doesn't feel right about their actions.

The recorded call between Stewart et al, and LaVoy is so disturbing!  They pretty much laid out exactly what was going to happen and it did.  They tried to warn him.  That needs to get out there because it does a much better job of vindicating the OK, than does the dude from Patriot Warriors, whatever his name is.

----------


## pcosmar

You know..
People who brag about rank and elite units.
and people who talk about stolen valor (while doing nothing)

Are at best,, A Warlord wannabe,, or a Psyops idiot  spreading discord, at the other worse end..

Folks don't have rank.

PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO.  

Every Known/Named militia and organization has feds or fed snitches..

if you are dealing with any known organization,, then know this..

Heck,, some folks here are spooks.

----------


## phill4paul

> Yeah, I heard him say that, but are we certain that wasn't just his opinion of the volunteers who showed up to back up the ranchers?  And, it's already been discussed that they were infiltrated.  I don't know for certain if Payne and McConnell are plants but their actions sure seem like it to me. And, the two women who had to share a "paddy wagon" with McConnell don't trust him either.  I'll trust their instincts over his, for now.


   Given the videos I've seen I believe his opinion correct. No militia put themselves on site. There was no vetting and anyone was allowed to join Bundy at Malhuer. That makes for a lot of naive individuals with visions of an Alamo participation. I definitely haven't trusted Payne since the Ranch and all the info that came out on him during and after. McConnell...I dunno. As an aside I think it's pretty coincidental that, from Cox's statement, all McConnell was worried about was his Jeep. And then there is the reporting that Blaine Cooper was bragging about the Jeep he bought cash down with contributions. What is it with Jeeps and these guys?

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> Given the videos I've seen I believe his opinion correct. No militia put themselves on site. There was no vetting and anyone was allowed to join Bundy at Malhuer. That makes for a lot of naive individuals with visions of an Alamo participation. I definitely haven't trusted Payne since the Ranch and all the info that came out on him during and after. McConnell...I dunno. As an aside I think it's pretty coincidental that, from Cox's statement, all McConnell was worried about was his Jeep. And then there is the reporting that Blaine Cooper was bragging about the Jeep he bought cash down with contributions. What is it with Jeeps and these guys?

----------


## phill4paul

> You know..
> People who brag about rank and elite units.
> and people who talk about stolen valor (while doing nothing)
> 
> Are at best,, A Warlord wannabe,, or a Psyops idiot  spreading discord, at the other worse end..
> 
> Folks don't have rank.
> 
> PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHO IS WHO.  
> ...


  Pete, it is no secret that any militia, that advertises and does community work as such, above squad level has snitches. 

  But if you think that any situation should be entered without a command and control structure then you are pissing in the wind. 

  Now, don't get me wrong. The Bundy's and Finicum WERE NOT militia. Just pissed off Ranchers. 

  And that is well and good. But when you get yahoos like Payne and his cohorts that wish to affect military dress and arms then you have a problem. If the Ammons' and Finicum had wished to present this as an organic Ranchers versus Big Government situation then there should NOT have been any of this Rambo crew on hand.

  Perception means $#@! when it comes to a battle in a much larger war.

----------


## pcosmar

> Perception means $#@! when it comes to a battle in a much larger war.


Perhaps,,
That won't be sorted out here.

I'm as yet just an observer.. and an unarmed one at that.
I am certainly not looking to be in the trial that sorts them out.

Because it's only when you get in a fight that you know

----------


## phill4paul

> Perhaps,,
> That won't be sorted out here.
> 
> I'm as yet just an observer.. and an unarmed one at that.
> I am certainly not looking to be in the trial that sorts them out.
> 
> Because it's only when you get in a fight that you know


  It's a frikken pickle. The level of paranoia is enough to make one just find a cave. 

  But, it is not one that hasn't been experienced in the past. 

  Compartmentalizing doesn't work in psychology if one wishes to break through the barriers leading to truth. However, it is paramount when it comes to insurgencies. 

  Oregon was nothing more than individuals acting together. I think this was the Ammons' and Finicums' wish. They had compartmentalized their own op. For better or worse. I can't blame them for that for in the doing Theye were not able to implicate other elements in the fight for liberty.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Yes, I understand 'offensive' vs. 'defensive' action.  The ranchers' lack of judgment and tactics have been argued over ad nauseam.  My issue is with his response (or lack thereof) regarding McConnell's actions.  And, has anyone heard anything from Ryan Payne since he was supposedly thrown in jail?  I don't know why, but those two are stuck in my craw, I have only speculation to go on, but something doesn't feel right about their actions.
> 
> The recorded call between Stewart et al, and LaVoy is so disturbing!  They pretty much laid out exactly what was going to happen and it did.  They tried to warn him.  That needs to get out there because it does a much better job of vindicating the OK, than does the dude from Patriot Warriors, whatever his name is.


Who comprises OK?

They told him on air they need to move laterally?

----------


## pcosmar

> It's a frikken pickle.


That is truth.




> Oregon was nothing more than individuals acting together.


Nope.. I wish that were so.
Opposition is quite entrenched and organized.

The Bundys, and some others,  are individuals. There were organized anti-militia protests when there was no militia.
The Agenda 21 crowd is visibly present in my area (not far).

I am not sure what to think of these lawyers, but I have never trusted such anyway.

There will be no justice in court for the crimes committed.

----------


## pcosmar

> Who comprises OK?


LE and pro-military

----------


## Kade

Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.

I believe the majority of the people who were there and saw it, and the video. This isn't a case of the normal lying bull$#@! cover-up, I'm sorry... I just go with where the evidence lies. And I don't believe Sharp's account. 

“He was not on his knees, none of that,” McConnell said. “He was none of that nonsense. You know, that was a miscommunication on somebody else’s part. But he went after them. He charged them. You know, LaVoy was very passionate about what he was doing up here.”

I think this write-up is accurate. You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this... I mean LaVoy almost ran a cop over, that alone is sometimes enough defense for lethal force. 

Lavoy Forced Oregon Police to Shoot

----------


## phill4paul

> Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.
> Blargh, blargh, blargh...


  You stated....




> Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy *waving around a gun.*


  Even the FBI has said that he had a 9mm IN HIS POCKET.  You pretty much didn't know $#@! about it and just decided to drop in and troll.

----------


## Deborah K

Don't feed the troll.  

Here's an article worth reading: https://dianersite.wordpress.com/201...appening-here/ 


> *There’s Something Strange Happening Here…*
> 
> Written by Diane Rodgers on  Feb. 7, 2016
> 
> About two years the Nation watched as Cliven Bundy stood in opposition against an unjust seizure of his ranch and grazing rights by the BLM. The event grew as patriotic Americans responded to his aid. The growing protest was ultimately successful in forcing the BLM to turn tail and retreat in face of the growing support that they could no longer control. Fast forward now to January 2, 2016 and we have a similar situation with the BLM is small town out west called Burns, Oregon.  Since the start of this protest, the Main Stream Media (MSM) has been putting forth articles and news reports using such adjectives as “armed militants”, “right wing racists”, “terrorists” or “armed thugs”.  Every story I read or listened to was basically the same, always one sided.  I follow the belief that there are 3 sides to every story; you could call it her side, his side and the Truth.  So when only one side is ever told, it is safe to assume that there is an agenda afoot.  An agenda the MSM never speaks about.
> 
> So in my quest to get to the Truth, I decided to take an eight day vacation from my full time job to travel 3,000 miles via plane and car to that small town out west call Burns. What you are about to read is exactly what I witnessed and learned from my  westward trip. I hope that this article, and those to follow, will help you see through the smokescreen of lies the media, at the bequest of our federal government , have been and are still telling us as the means to controlling the narrative.
> 
> Contrary to the MSM stories one finds on the situation in Burns Oregon, the real terrorist in Burns Oregon are not the framer, ranchers or loggers, nor are they the patriotic first responders.  The farmer, ranchers and loggers are salt of the earth people, they are hardworking folks who bust their butts every day to earn a living as many of us do on a daily basis. The Patriotic first responders, men and women who have left behind their lives, families, friends and jobs in order to come to Burns to bring attention to the illegal land grabs and the usurpation of our Constitution.  These people present no threat to the people of Burns as evidenced by the fact that they frequent the local stores, shops, restaurants and bars without any issues.
> ...


read on.....

----------


## Deborah K

> Who comprises OK?


Anyone can join but they are mostly x military/x police who believe in the Constitution and adhering to its principles first and foremost, hence the name OathKeepers.  Stewart Rhodes, x military; attorney, and former aide to Ron (years ago), is the founder.




> They told him on air they need to move laterally?


No, it wasn't on air.  It was after an aired interview.  They weren't aware that skype was still recording.  They practically begged LaVoy to move his operations to a county with a Constitutional Sheriff who would protect his rights.  The ranchers were starting to gain ground and were being invited to speak publicly.  On the call, Stewart et al encouraged that, and foretold what was about to happen if they (Ammon, LaVoy, et al) didn't change their course.  Ironically, two days after this call, LaVoy's party was on their way, when he was murdered, to a county (50 miles away) that had invited them to speak, and that had a Constitutional Sheriff.

----------


## Weston White

> Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.
> 
> I believe the majority of the people who were there and saw it, and the video. This isn't a case of the normal lying bull$#@! cover-up, I'm sorry... I just go with where the evidence lies. And I don't believe Sharp's account. 
> 
> “He was not on his knees, none of that,” McConnell said. “He was none of that nonsense. You know, that was a miscommunication on somebody else’s part. But he went after them. He charged them. You know, LaVoy was very passionate about what he was doing up here.”
> 
> I think this write-up is accurate. You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this... I mean LaVoy almost ran a cop over, that alone is sometimes enough defense for lethal force. 
> 
> Lavoy Forced Oregon Police to Shoot


Wrong.  The officers on the scene, on that faithful day, violated several operational policies concerning pursuits and roadblocks.  This operation was botched from the moment the vehicles left the refuge--it was clearly intended to illicit a desired response, a response of fleeting or violence.

The officer JUMPED in front of a moving vehicle, a vehicle that had  veered off the roadway to avoid slamming head on into a blind roadblock wherein officers were standing all around their parked police vehicles--could they have been anymore negligent and imbecilic?  I think yes, but not by very much.

The officers further violated operational policies by breaching the shielding of their vehicles--and entering the line-of-fire of the staged units--during a felony stop to surround Mr. Finicum as he walked towards them.

To then add insult, the officers then opened fired upon a clearly UNARMED individual, shooting him to his death--and then while knowing or suspecting him to be armed left him unrestrained with his weapons as they walked off with their backs to him.

Mr. Finicum made law enforcement shoot him upwards of NINE-TIMES in a timeframe of only SIX-SECONDS you say?  You my friend, are a damned fool, and can go piss off with your weak-thought-process and mindless guff.

----------


## DavesNotHere

> Video was released. You would have to be pretty thick to see anything other than LaVoy waving around a gun.


The massive amounts of blatant dis-info... exactly like this... on this whole incident... proves lots to me.

----------


## Deborah K

> The massive amounts of blatant dis-info... exactly like this... on this whole incident... proves lots to me.


The whole thing got started when the pigs released Mark McConnell and within one hour he gave a fake accounting of what happened on his Fascist Book page.  It went viral and got over 345k hits and 7600 shares.  It was the only account the media whores picked up on and when he recounted with his oh-so-insincere-apology for getting it wrong, the whores never corrected it.  And people like Kade and others never bothered to research both sides of the issue and ran with McConnell's fake accounting.

I'm telling you, there is something sketchy about this Mark McConnell dude and of course, Ryan Payne.  McConnell never gets arrested, just held.  And Payne conveniently surrenders at the first stop, and we never hear from him again.  Pete Santilli, who is still in jail has released statements, Ryan Bundy - still in jail has released statements; Ammon Bundy - still in jail - has released statements.  But Payne??  uh uh.   

I have no proof, just a bad feeling that these two are plants or compromised.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. [...]
> 
> [...] You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this...


Irrespective of one's opinions or interpretations of the event, how much more likely is it to "change [others'] mind[s]" (or "change reality") by calling others unthinking, bubble-dwelling "moonbats" than by neg-repping them? (Seems like "six of one, half a dozen of the other" to me ...)

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> Wrong.  The officers on the scene, on that faithful day, violated several operational policies concerning pursuits and roadblocks.  This operation was botched from the moment the vehicles left the refuge--it was clearly intended to illicit a desired response, a response of fleeting or violence.
> 
> The officer JUMPED in front of a moving vehicle, a vehicle that had  veered off the roadway to avoid slamming head on into a blind roadblock wherein officers were standing all around their parked police vehicles--could they have been anymore negligent and imbecilic?  I think yes, but not by very much.
> 
> The officers further violated operational policies by breaching the shielding of their vehicles--and entering the line-of-fire of the staged units--during a felony stop to surround Mr. Finicum as he walked towards them.
> 
> To then add insult, the officers then opened fired upon a clearly UNARMED individual, shooting him to his death--and then while knowing or suspecting him to be armed left him unrestrained with his weapons as they walked off with their backs to him.
> 
> Mr. Finicum made law enforcement shoot him upwards of NINE-TIMES in a timeframe of only SIX-SECONDS you say?  You my friend, are a damned fool, and can go piss off with your weak-thought-process and mindless guff.


Someone posted the video in slow-mo which seems to show that a shot went through the windshield just before the snowbank.  As far as his arm reaching to his side it seems to be that one or more of the officers had shot him and he was reacting to the pain...

----------


## Weston White

> Someone posted the video in slow-mo which seems to show that a shot went through the windshield just before the snowbank.  As far as his arm reaching to his side it seems to be that one or more of the officers had shot him and he was reacting to the pain...


About the windshield shot, that "artifact" can been seen earlier in the video while they were driving along the roadway, away from the first stop, so I am not certain it is indicative of a shot having been fired as they approached the roadblock--unless that shot into the windshield actually took place during the first confrontation?

The issue about him reaching where a gun would be if one were wearing a shoulder-holster (which Mr. Finicum was known to wear occasionally) is that the FBI stated they recovered a 9mm handgun from his jacket pocket, so why was he reaching towards his armpit/side-chest area, as that is not where a jacket pocket is located?

Regardless, if he was reaching for a firearm, something was preventing him from accomplishing that goal, as he made several failed attempts to do so--which at this point, he was legally justified in defending himself from assassination, with reasoned counter-force against his aggressors, in this case the OSP and FBI, as the Court has ruled time and time again.

Police ought be held to a higher standard of conduct in the public, not a lower standard, they receive extensive training, while the average citizen does not.  Ergo, you do not shoot somebody just because they may have a weapon on them, you do not shoot somebody because they grab at their waistband or put a hand in their pants pocket, somebody facing away from you is not an imminent threat, a roadblock on a highway is a method of deadly force, etc.

----------


## Stateofmind

Just got email from Carol Bundy.. 

URGENT: We need you now

WAKE UP AMERICA!
WAKE UP WE THE PEOPLE!
WAKE UP PATRIOTS!
WAKE UP MILITA!
IT'S TIME!!!!!
CLIVEN BUNDY IS HEADING TO THE HARNEY COUNTY RESOURCE CENTER (Refuge) IN BURNS OREGON.

Your presence is requested NOW.

----------


## dannno

> Giving me negative reputation doesn't change my mind, or change reality. And you all know my feeling on authority, cops especially included.
> 
> I believe the majority of the people who were there and saw it, and the video. This isn't a case of the normal lying bull$#@! cover-up, I'm sorry... I just go with where the evidence lies. And I don't believe Sharp's account. 
> 
> “He was not on his knees, none of that,” McConnell said. “He was none of that nonsense. You know, that was a miscommunication on somebody else’s part. But he went after them. He charged them. You know, LaVoy was very passionate about what he was doing up here.”
> 
> I think this write-up is accurate. You guys really live in a bubble sometimes, no offense, but you got to know when to think for yourselves... you come off like total moonbats defending stuff like this... I mean LaVoy almost ran a cop over, that alone is sometimes enough defense for lethal force. 
> 
> Lavoy Forced Oregon Police to Shoot


What the hell is wrong with you?? Seriously.. You think you know what is going on here because you listened to the MSM or some retarded thing and you are making a complete fool out of yourself. You have already made several misstatements and clearly have no idea what happened, so why not try LISTENING to the people here who have actually been following this??  If you watched the video, you would see he came out with his hands up and did not CHARGE ANYBODY. He was shot, slipped on the ice, and grabbed at his side and then was murdered. He never "waved a gun around" he never "charged" the FBI, so stop making yourself look so dumb. You seriously need to humble yourself and come in trying to figure stuff out instead of telling people bull$#@! when you are more misinformed about than anybody else in the room. Do you have any idea how annoying and aggravating it is to deal with people who have your attitude?

Let me give you a better approach to life in these situations.. Ask questions - say, "hey, why did whats-his-name give testimony that said such-and-such because this seems to contradict what you think happened.." THEN TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN. Then respond if you have more questions. All this stuff has already been discussed and resolved.

----------


## Kade

> And people like Kade and others never bothered to *research both sides of the issue* and ran with McConnell's fake accounting.


Kettle, pot, black, etc.

I have looked into it, heavily. I just don't agree. I honestly think that if it were a group of African Americans who pulled this stunt it would have turned into another Waco.

And calling me a troll, simply because you are angry and disagree is not very ingratiating. There is one certainty that is hard to debate on this forum, the bubble. I listened to the live audio last night of the remaining group, and I'm being nice when I say that they generally sound like a bunch of idiots. I also fear people like that, the sort of folks who see only one way, become almost tribalistic in the protection of their own, and who can be shown time and time again to lack sympathy or empathy for others besides themselves... It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life, and that is not hyperbole. 




> What the hell is wrong with you?? Seriously.. You think you know what is going on here because you listened to the MSM or some retarded thing and you are making a complete fool out of yourself. .... Ask questions - say, "hey, why did whats-his-name give testimony that said such-and-such because this seems to contradict what you think happened.." THEN TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN. Then respond if you have more questions. All this stuff has already been discussed and resolved.


I listened. In the world I come from using the term MSM puts you in a category that I won't even mention here... you don't get it. Nothing is wrong with me, I just exist in a plane between two worlds of really extreme people... and it's hard, it's really freaking hard sometimes to be any sort of voice of reason...You don't listen to each other. On other forums they have destroyed the testimonies of the other witnesses, and I found myself disagreeing with their interpretation. 

I'm not your enemy. I Just think that having read, watched, and listened to both sides, I don't think LaVoy was murdered... especially not after how most of you have acted and responded with the multitude of shootings of unarmed African Americans by authorities. 





I can't possibly be the only person on this forum who thinks the taking of Malheur refuge was a really dumb idea.

----------


## AuH20

> Kettle, pot, black, etc.
> 
> I have looked into it, heavily. I just don't agree. I honestly think that if it were a group of African Americans who pulled this stunt it would have turned into another Waco.
> 
> And calling me a troll, simply because you are angry and disagree is not very ingratiating. There is one certainty that is hard to debate on this forum, the bubble. I listened to the live audio last night of the remaining group, and I'm being nice when I say that they generally sound like a bunch of idiots. I also fear people like that, the sort of folks who see only one way, become almost tribalistic in the protection of their own, and who can be shown time and time again to lack sympathy or empathy for others besides themselves... It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life, and that is not hyperbole. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't possibly be the only person on this forum who thinks the taking of Malheur refuge was a really dumb idea.


Until we get conclusive video, I can't tell either whether he reached for a 9 mm or was staggered with a previous shot. He did obviously get shot before he went to a gun. Apparently, he did have another firearm if you reference previous photos. But I have a hard time believing that he purchased a stolen firearm.

----------


## Kade

> Irrespective of one's opinions or interpretations of the event, how much more likely is it to "change [others'] mind[s]" (or "change reality") by calling others unthinking, bubble-dwelling "moonbats" than by neg-repping them? (Seems like "six of one, half a dozen of the other" to me ...)


Fair point.

----------


## RJB

> I honestly think that if it were a group of African Americans who pulled this stunt it would have turned into another Waco.


.  Why bring race into this?  Did Waco turn out the way it did because it was a group of African Americans?

----------


## Kade

> .  Why bring race into this?  Did Waco turn out the way it did because it was a group of African Americans?


Twisting words. I used an obvious case of a very poorly executed matter to the modern examples of African Americans and authorities. Men have been shot and killed on the street for MUCH less than what LaVoy did, and I've seen and read people on this forum support those actions. I hold that at the highest level of total and abject hypocrisy. 

And you are not going to argue that if a group of Muslims or some other group stormed a Federal building armed to the teeth, and declared a "protest"  that the reaction would have been nearly as mild.

----------


## phill4paul

> Kettle, pot, black, etc.
> 
> *I have looked into it, heavily.* I just don't agree. I honestly think that if it were a group of African Americans who pulled this stunt it would have turned into another Waco.


As witnessed by your professing theat LaVoy was "waving his gun around."




> And calling me a troll, simply because you are angry and disagree is not very ingratiating.


  After you calling people "thick?" Kettle, pot, black etc.





> I listened. In the world I come from using the term MSM puts you in a category that I won't even mention here... you don't get it. Nothing is wrong with me, I just exist in a plane between two worlds of really extreme people... and it's hard, it's really freaking hard sometimes to be any sort of voice of reason...You don't listen to each other. On other forums they have destroyed the testimonies of the other witnesses, and I found myself disagreeing with their interpretation.


  What exactly does the term MSM mean in your world? In ours it means Main Stream Media. Which is all controlled by what? A handful of corporartions now. YOU obviously don't get it.




> I'm not your enemy. I Just think that having read, watched, and listened to both sides, I don't think LaVoy was murdered... especially not after how most of you have acted and responded with the multitude of shootings of unarmed African Americans by authorities.


  So you base your reactions to LaVoy based on what you think you saw here WRT African American shootings? You obviously don't read the WHOLE forums. There is a specific one about these shootings and the opposite of what you claim is exhibited there.





> I can't possibly be the only person on this forum who thinks the taking of Malheur refuge was a really dumb idea.


  Your not. But, probably for different reasons.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Your not. But, probably for different reasons.


certainly for different reasons

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I'm not your enemy. I Just think that having read, watched, and listened to both sides, I don't think LaVoy was murdered... especially not after how most of you have acted and responded with the multitude of shootings of unarmed African Americans by authorities.


You appear to be confusing RonPaulForums with RedStateForums. I understand that they both begin with "R," but they really are entirely different places. Around here, at RonPaulForums, we do not justify the murder of unarmed Black Americans. Indeed, we call out the people who murder them as the murderers they are. 




> I can't possibly be the only person on this forum who thinks the taking of Malheur refuge was a really dumb idea.


It's becoming increasingly clear that you do not pay any attention to RPF's at all. If you had, you would have known that several of us, myself included, were opposed to this debacle from day 1. The difference is unlike you, we didn't oppose it from some misguided love of the government exercising power against people we hated, but because it was a bad idea, was not properly planned, was not supported by the locals, it would trash all the good will we built up after Bundy Ranch, and would leave us worse off than we were before wrt public opinion of the militia movement.

----------


## RJB

Good post Gunny.  He wrongly accused me of twisting the words of one of his post as he comes here and twists everything that we stand for. 






> You appear to be confusing RonPaulForums with RedStateForums. I understand that they both begin with "R," but they really are entirely different places. Around here, at RonPaulForums, we do not justify the murder of unarmed Black Americans. Indeed, we call out the people who murder them as the murderers they are. 
> 
> 
> 
> It's becoming increasingly clear that you do not pay any attention to RPF's at all. If you had, you would have known that several of us, myself included, were opposed to this debacle from day 1. The difference is unlike you, we didn't oppose it from some misguided love of the government exercising power against people we hated, but because it was a bad idea, was not properly planned, was not supported by the locals, it would trash all the good will we built up after Bundy Ranch, and would leave us worse off than we were before wrt public opinion of the militia movement.

----------


## Weston White

Updated listing:

Booking information:

Ammon Bundy
Ryan Bundy
Pete Santilli
Brian Cavalier
Shawna Cox RELEASED--Record no longer available.
Ryan Payne
Joseph Oshaughnessy RELEASED
Duane Ehmer RELEASED
Dylan Anderson
Jason Patrick
Ritzheimer (need DOB or booking no.)

David Fry
Jeff Banta
Sean Anderson
Sandra Anderson

Wesley Kjar

Geoffrey Stanek RELEASED
Daryl Thornl



Cannot locate anything for Victoria Sharp in Auburn, KS at https://kdocrepository.doc.ks.gov/kasper/

Only match on a Jay booked on 2/10:




> PICKERING , JAYCE LEE	Return
> Age:	32
> Total Bond:	$0.00
> Total Cash-Only:	$6,280.00
> Booked:	02/10/16 00:49
> Court Date:	4/7/16 10:00
> Earliest Release:	
> Charges	 	Bond	Cash	Both?
> 207.200:
> ...


"Jay"




> Name #    Name                        Location                 Time Incarcerated
> 545268 COOPER, BLAINE               PURG-WEST-FBLK-MAIN-0019 11:09:53 02/11/16
> 
> https://news.washeriff.net/divisions...inmate-roster/


Blaine Cooper




> DWIGHT LINCOLN HAMMOND
> Register Number: 59886-065
> Age: 	74
> Race: 	White
> Sex: 	Male
> Located at: Terminal Island FCI
> Release Date: 02/13/2020





> STEVEN DWIGHT HAMMOND
> Register Number: 60061-065
> Age: 	46
> Race: 	White
> Sex: 	Male
> Located at: Terminal Island FCI
> Release Date: 06/29/2019


FBP link

----------


## Weston White



----------


## PursuePeace

Have you all seen this? I'm watching it now.
It was just posted on the Bundy Ranch facebook page:




> Bundy Ranch shared Dennis Michael Lynch's photo.
> 1 hr · 
> Live right now!!! Share share share
> https://www.facebook.com/DMLdaily/po...230278416428:0
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis Michael Lynch
> 3 hrs · 
> ...



Type in "Bundy" in the search bar: 
http://www.newsmaxtv.com/tvsearch

On a sidenote:

Ammon Bundy Moved Out of Solitary – Thanks to Newsmax TV Host


Sorry if this has already been posted, kind of hard keeping up with all the threads these days.

----------


## JK/SEA

some news from Okanogan County..

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...assassination/

----------


## Weston White

> * Dylan Wade Anderson, 34, of Provo, Utah, arrested leaving the refuge Jan. 27 
> * Sandra Lynn Anderson, 48, of Riggins, Idaho, surrendered at the refuge Feb. 11
> * Sean Larry Anderson, 47, of Riggins, Idaho, surrendered at the refuge Feb. 11  
> * Jeff Wayne Banta, 46, of Yerington, Nevada, surrendered at the refuge Feb. 11
> * Jason Charles Blomgren, 41, of Murphy, North Carolina, arrested in Bunkerville, Nevada, on Feb. 10
> * Ammon Edward Bundy, 40, of Emmett, Idaho, arrested at a roadblock on U.S. 395 on Jan. 26
> * Ryan C. Bundy, 43, of Bunkerville, Nevada, arrested at a roadblock on U.S. 395 on Jan. 26
> * Brian Cavalier, 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada, arrested at a roadblock on U.S. 395 on Jan. 26
> * Blaine Cooper, 36, of Dewey-Humboldt, Arizona, arrested in Springdale, Utah, on Feb. 11
> ...


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...n_at-a-gl.html

----------


## JK/SEA



----------


## Weston White

Would it be a good idea to make a public call for the officers/agents involved to come forward in a whistleblower capacity, that he and Fiore and others will work with them to get the truth out and protect them from official blowback?

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> 


Mr John Moore better be watching his back.  Political types are NEVER supposed to say any bad thing about ANY goon at ANY time.  He's definitely got balls...

----------


## phill4paul

jeebus, the curious words of the MSM.

Headline: 


> *FBI finds trench of human feces at cultural site on Oregon refuge*


  So basically saying the occupants $#@! all  over the cultural heritage of the Paiutes. 

But wait....




> The FBI said it has found a trench of human feces and a road excavated on *or next to* a sensitive cultural site with artifacts





> investigators found "significant amounts of human feces" in a trench at an outdoor camping area that was either on *or next to* a "sensitive cultural site."





> Occupiers appear to have excavated two large trenches and an improvised road on *or adjacent to* grounds containing sensitive artifacts," he wrote.


Of course one might wonder why a campsite would be build adjacent to *or on* a native American cultural site.

  ETA link:http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-finds-tren...035649348.html

----------


## pcosmar

> Of course one might wonder why a campsite would be build adjacent to *or on* a native American cultural site.


One might wonder why a research facility and offices were built on or near them.

----------


## phill4paul

> One might wonder why a research facility and offices were built on or near them.


  Indeed. From the article I just assumed that the mention I made was regarding a campsite that was operated by the refuge.

  I noticed I forgot the link and added it to the above post. 

  Here was another good one from the article that was amazingly vague yet condemning....




> Williams also said in the filing - which was a response to occupiers' requests to have their attorneys allowed onto the site - that firearms and explosives were found, and *it was feared* vehicles and buildings *could be* booby trapped.

----------


## phill4paul

So, of course the New York Post went exactly where I said the media would take it...


Headline: *Oregon occupiers s–t all over sensitive cultural site at refuge*

I'm not even gonna link it. They don't deserve traffic.

----------


## goldenequity

Of course there's more footage...




and audio.

----------


## phill4paul

> Of course there's more footage...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and audio.


  There's individual body cam footage. Guarantied. There is also recording of all the "tactical officers" involved. There is no doubt. This info is recorded so that after action reports can be made. For the Gov. to say that there is no on the ground recording of either audio or video is pure bull$#@!.

----------


## goldenequity



----------


## Deborah K

This is well worth the listen!  In the middle of it right now, but he talks about how Ammon et al were gaining the interest and respect of Harney county residents, specifically the farmers and ranchers, and how he followed FBI provocateurs and confronted them because they were pretending to be militia and bullying the townspeople.  This is Chris Briels, retired Fire Chief, well known and respected in his town.




Judge Grasty is a snake!

Edit:  He's not retired!  He _resigned_ after a confrontation with the snake Grasty, his boss!  He knows Ammon, and he met and shook hands with LaVoy.

----------


## pcosmar

http://www.columbian.com/news/2016/f...shot-occupier/




> SALEM, Ore. — The Oregon House has passed a bill to *protect the identity* of the officer who fatally shot refuge standoff spokesman Robert “LaVoy” Finicum in January.

----------


## Son_of_Liberty90

> So, of course the New York Post went exactly where I said the media would take it...
> 
> 
> Headline: *Oregon occupiers st all over sensitive cultural site at refuge*
> 
> I'm not even gonna link it. They don't deserve traffic.


Disgusting

----------


## phill4paul

> http://www.columbian.com/news/2016/f...shot-occupier/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				SALEM, Ore. — The Oregon House has passed a bill to *protect the identity* of the officer who fatally shot refuge standoff spokesman Robert “LaVoy” Finicum in January.


  Which one? Or are they admitting that none of the others "feared for their lives" enough to shoot him except the one that was coming in from the rear?

----------


## pcosmar

> Which one? Or are they admitting that none of the others "feared for their lives" enough to shoot him except the one that was coming in from the rear?


They are admitting little..

but obfuscating much.

----------


## Weston White

The FBI was aware of this already, David Fry stated as  much in his YouTube videos.  They were intentionally camping outside using a trench as a restroom and forgoing showers so as to assert that they are merely camping outside on public lands and not occupying a federal building.  If the FBI was truly concerning about maintaining the habitat, the FBI should have granted them permission to just live inside the living quarters with electricity and water.

Besides, they were camping out next to the buildings and parking lot along a graded dirt turn-about, there are no artifacts there, there are no birds depending on access to that roadway.

The FBI did this to themselves.

----------


## CPUd



----------


## phill4paul

> Use of cover terms to mask the true meaning of events or illegal activities....


  "Molasses tomorrow will bring forth cognac." "John has a long mustache".

  Repeat...

  "Molasses tomorrow will bring forth cognac." "John has a long mustache".

----------


## pcosmar

> It has begun... the 'Night of the Long Knives'...
> We had our chance. 
> Now they take us down one by one.





> *
>  We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately*


famous founders observation.

further comment deleted.

----------


## CPUd

Apparently these guys have been filing complaints against each other since the last election, when it got particularly nasty:


https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...hard-Gray.html

----------


## phill4paul

> Grant County Sheriff Accused Of Helping Refuge Occupiers
> 
> PORTLAND, Ore. — Grant County's sheriff is under state investigation after complaints about his conduct during the standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> There were apparently concerns Sheriff Glenn Palmer might have been passing information to the occupiers during the standoff.
> 
> He was apparently kept out of the loop about plans for the traffic stop that led to the arrest of Ammon Bundy and several others, and the shooting death of LaVoy Finicum.
> 
> Now Palmer is facing more than half a dozen complaints - some from law enforcement agencies - about his actions during the standoff.
> ...


http://katu.com/news/local/grant-cou...fuge-occupiers

----------


## Occam's Banana

> The DPSST replied to the complaints by saying its preliminary investigation shows Palmer's actions "may violate the Board's certification standards." That means Palmer could be stripped of his state law enforcement credentials.


  Ain't it strange how in other cases of alleged police misconduct, they'll often just flat out refuse to comment by citing concerns about an "ongoing invesitgation" or some such thing? I wonder why that is ... and why this case is different ... hmmmmmmm ....

----------


## DavesNotHere

FEDs are going crazy. How much will stand up in court?

'Sheriff Richard Mack & Sibel Edmonds Discuss Oregon, Federal Tyranny & Political Persecution'







> Published on Feb 20, 2016
> 
> In the latest development involving the Burns-OR Standoff case, the Oregon Department of Public Safety Standards and Training is asking the state Department of Justice to investigate Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer after receiving numerous complaints from the public and others, including dispatchers and the John Day police chief. The Department has released eight separate complaints, including ones from a 911 manager and the John Day police chief, alleging misconduct by Palmer, and raising alarm concerning Palmer's association with leaders of the refuge occupation.


http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016...trol-proposal/

----------


## Son_of_Liberty90

Sheriff Mack is the man!

----------


## JK/SEA

just a reminder here...

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB...

that is all....

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> FEDs are going crazy. How much will stand up in court?
> 
> 'Sheriff Richard Mack & Sibel Edmonds Discuss Oregon, Federal Tyranny & Political Persecution'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016...trol-proposal/


Sheriff Mack will no doubt be "investigated" soon.  We are all on that short list and if any of us make too much noise they will move to silence us.  The time is soon coming when the only thing left will be for scores of individuals...

----------


## PursuePeace

Wednesday, 9pm EST - 




> LaVoy Finicum's wife speaks out for the first time since his death tomorrow night on UNFILTERED. 9pm ET, set your DVR now. Go to NewsmaxTV.com for channel listings or to view online in real time.

----------


## PursuePeace

INTERVIEW: Jeanette Finicum discusses the death of her husband Lavoy Finicum - 

*http://www.newsmaxtv.com/vod/DML-Unf...TKng832pmYl0Sp.*

She said she is not allowed to release the results of the independent autopsy they had done on Lavoy, until the Feds release their autopsy report. 
Jeanette's lawyer was in Oregon to see Lavoy's truck and he was denied access and would not be able to have access unless they go further with legal matters.

----------


## CPUd

Here are some (several hundred) emails to and from the OR Gov's office during the standoff:

http://docdro.id/H6CRDQu

----------


## phill4paul

> Here are some (several hundred) emails to and from the OR Gov's office during the standoff:
> 
> http://docdro.id/H6CRDQu


 Oh, $#@!. I think tomorrow is a ash as I read through this...

----------


## Son_of_Liberty90

Does anyone know how the family of Lavoy recovered the planted 9mm pistol? I feel like that evidence would have been confiscated fairly quickly by the FBI

----------


## JK/SEA

BREAKING:

----------


## tod evans

*Kansas woman who took her kids to Oregon refuge standoff arrested*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/04...?intcmp=hplnws

TOPEKA, Kan. –  A Kansas woman who took her children to perform for occupiers during the armed takeover of an Oregon wildlife refuge earlier this year says authorities have removed seven of her children from her home and arrested her for assaulting an officer.

Odalis Sharp, 46, of Auburn was booked into the Shawnee County jail Friday evening for battery of an officer and interfering with a law enforcement officer, jail officials told The Kansas City Star. No charges had been filed as of Tuesday morning. The Shawnee County prosecutor's office could not be reached for comment.

Sharp was released Saturday on $3,000 bond.

Sharp traveled with seven of her 10 children, who have a family gospel band, from Kansas to Oregon to sing for and support the 41-day occupation by armed militants of at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. One daughter, 18-year-old Victoria Sharp, was riding with Nevada rancher LaVoy Finicum and three of the other militants when Finicum ran a roadblock and was shot and killed by Oregon state police.

Sharp said the arrest occurred after she went to court earlier Friday trying to file paperwork accusing her landlord of breach of contract. Her landlord had earlier sought to have her removed from the home. She said when she returned home, law enforcement and employees with the Kansas Department of Children and Families were waiting.

"They wanted me to go with them," Sharp told the newspaper. "They wouldn't let me go to the house. One grabbed my arm and legs and dragged me out of the car. I kicked the woman officer."

Sharp said the sheriff's officers arrested her and took one of her children who was with her at the time. Six of her other children had been taken by child welfare workers while she was away, Sharp said. Three older children live elsewhere.

A DCF spokeswoman didn't immediately return a call seeking comment Tuesday.

"They're all in DCF custody now, as far as I know," she said. "They're evil. They steal kids. This is the devil against my family."

She said DCF workers visited her at least twice since returning from Oregon and that someone had apparently called the child abuse and neglect hotline recently.

"They're making false charges," she said.

In 2011, the Kansas Department for Children and Families removed Sharp's oldest child who was then 15 and placed him in foster care. Sharp appealed, but the appellate court sided with the lower courts in October.

----------


## pcosmar

Observe.  ^^

----------


## Suzanimal

Federal Jury Convicts 2 of Conspiracy in Oregon Standoff Trial




> A jury on Friday found two men guilty of conspiracy and acquitted two others in a trial over the 2016 armed standoff at an Oregon wildlife refuge.
> All four men were part of a group of anti-government protesters who seized the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters in January 2016 in a high-profile protest over federal ownership of public lands.
> 
> The jury found Jason Patrick and Darryl Thorn guilty of conspiring to prevent federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge, the Oregonian reported. They face up to six years in prison, according to the Associated Press.
> 
> The jury found Duane Ehmer and Jake Ryan not guilty of conspiracy, but convicted them of lesser charges.In October, seven defendants  including Ammon and Ryan Bundy, who led the wildlife refuge takeover  were acquitted of federal conspiracy and weapons charges related to the occupation.


http://time.com/4698834/oregon-stand...alflow_twitter

----------


## phill4paul

> Federal Jury Convicts 2 of Conspiracy in Oregon Standoff Trial
> 
> 
> 
> http://time.com/4698834/oregon-stand...alflow_twitter


    And still no obstruction of justice charges for the FBI HRT agents that hid their shell casings and lied to the sheriff? That "investigation" is taking longer than the Bundy's investigation and their trial combined.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> And still no obstruction of justice charges for the FBI HRT agents that hid their shell casings and lied to the sheriff? That "investigation" is taking longer than the Bundy's investigation and their trial combined.


"Just-us"...

----------

