# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  I've decided to stop taking my meds. (Bi-polar)

## wizardwatson

I've decided to stop taking my meds.

I was diagnosed as bi-polar after having a severe manic episode in April of '08 that was complete with racing delusional thoughts, insomnia, delusions of grandeur, and ended with me in jail, and then in a psych facility when the police realized I was out of my mind.  The episode lasted about two weeks during which I had virtually no sleep.  It ended when I got to the psych facility and they gave me a little medicine called Zyprexa 5mg which knocked me out cold in less than 30 minutes.

The meds they prescribed me, depakote the first time, made me feel like $#@! so I stopped taking them almost immediately.  A year later in '09 another episode.  This one wasn't as bad from a ramifications point of view because I knew not to feed into all the delusions I was having, but nevertheless ended back up in a psych facility for a few days.  Made a half-hearted attempt to stay on the meds but after about 6 months on them I just stopped taking them and about 6 months after that had a third episode and again ended up in a psych facility.

During the third episode before being admitted I made an attempt to manage the symptoms and get on meds.  They put me on Lamictal but that didn't do anything so I got admitted just so they would prescribe me some zyprexa which I knew worked.  So after the third one I made a firm decision to stay on meds to prevent these episodes from reoccuring even though my ability to manage them and keep myself calm was improving.

So that decision was nearly two years ago during which I've been on 15mg Zyprexa for a year, dropped down to 10mg for this last year and 300mg Lamictal (even though me and my doctor don't know if this drug is doing anything for me).  A couple months ago I got extremely depressed (which I now believe is a direct side effect of being on the Zyprexa so long) had suicidal ideation and my therapist recommended I talk to my doctor about going on an anti-depressent.  I thought ok, good, maybe this is what I need to balance out the Zyprexa which makes me feel like a half-zombie.  Been on it for two weeks.  They say it can take about 5 weeks for full effect but I can tell what it does already.  It doesn't really elevate the mood so much as put your brain in a "comfort zone" but it destroys your emotional range, never really that happy or that sad.  But the real reason I'm stopping it, which is apparently common to all SSRI's is that it completely destroys your sex drive.  This is unacceptable.

So here I am 2 years after being on these meds and two weeks being on Lexapro.  I'm 40 pounds fatter and I feel like a zombie.  I've decided these meds are poison, a necessary poison for some people perhaps, but I'm getting off all of them and will keep my prescription for Zyprexa in case I get really bad insomnia and will only use on an as needed basis.  Though ideally I'd like to find alternatives, some natural supplements perhaps, to manage the symptoms.  

So no more meds with the occasional Zyprexa if insomnia becomes unbearable and I don't have an alternative which I am researching.  I've read all the horror stories about people coming off these meds (which only makes me want to get off them even more as it shows how much impact they are having in your system) so I'm wary of going cold turkey on three at once so I'm going to take it a day at a time and see how I feel.

And yes I'm going to talk to my doctor about this though I'm wondering if he might say that taking Zyprexa occasionally is a good idea or not.  I don't care though, I've read about other people that are doing that and I that's an option I want to try.

So will post updates to this thread about my progress and if anyone knows any natural supplements or has any tips for managing bi-polar would be interested to here.

I've been so apathetic and lethargic and emotionally neutral for the most part these last few years and am hopeful that I can get back to some semblance of how I used to be.  Yeah the meds keep me from being manic but they also keep me from doing or caring about anything.  I want my body and mind to deal with the manic symptoms more naturally instead of just giving myself a chemical lobotomy.  I think these chemicals should be a last resort but instead are are first resort that these doctors turn to.  I mean I understand if someone is severe like me that it is necessary to attack the symptoms directly, but they seem to ignore the potential dangers of long term use and there's never any attempt made to wean you off them or minimize the dosage, they always have this "if it's working lets leave it where it's at" attitude.

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## brandon

Good luck man. I trust you know what's best for yourself. Keep us updated.

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## Acala

I suggest reading this doctor's blog from start to finish.

http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogsp...e-disease.html

  This should get you up to speed on what science has to say about the relationship between nutrition and mental health.  Get your nutrition in order, regular exercise, then get started in some kind of meditation practice. 

Good luck!!!

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## Brian4Liberty

> So no more meds with the occasional Zyprexa if insomnia becomes unbearable and I don't have an alternative which I am researching. I've read all the horror stories about people coming off these meds (which only makes me want to get off them even more as it shows how much impact they are having in your system) so I'm wary of going cold turkey on three at once so I'm going to take it a day at a time and see how I feel.


Be careful. Drugs tend to have a rebound effect, which makes you feel worse when you stop taking them than before (anyone with a hangover can tell you that). Can you cut dosage lower and lower over time? Some conditions do require meds, but finding the right ones is difficult. And the meditation, exercise and nutrition route has never hurt anyone.

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## pcgame

............

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## RabbitMan

I can second the naturopath recommendation.  Be very, very careful about just dropping meds.  I've had bad things happen to people I care about because they decided they would just take their mental health into their own hands.  It's a tough balancing act to get right.

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## Bern

> I've decided to stop taking my meds.
> ...
> The meds they prescribed me, depakote the first time, made me feel like $#@! so I stopped taking them almost immediately.  ...


Not terribly surprised.  My wife took Depakote for a time for her epilepsy and it turned her into a zombie.  She didn't tolerate it well at all.




> ... They put me on Lamictal but that didn't do anything ...
> 
> So that decision was nearly two years ago during which I've been on 15mg Zyprexa for a year, dropped down to 10mg for this last year and 300mg Lamictal (even though me and my doctor don't know if this drug is doing anything for me).  A couple months ago I got extremely depressed (which I now believe is a direct side effect of being on the Zyprexa so long) had suicidal ideation and my therapist recommended I talk to my doctor about going on an anti-depressent.
> ...


Lamictal is also prescribed for epilepsy.  If you do decide to stop taking it after taking it for over a year, be sure to wean off of it slowly.  Stopping it cold turkey could have very bad consequences:

http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/...ramp-down-675/




> ... And yes I'm going to talk to my doctor about this ...


Very good idea.

FYI - an alternative that your doctor likely doesn't know much about is EEG neurofeedback:

http://www.eeginfo.com/therapeutic-a...-b.htm#bipolar

My wife derived significant benefits in managing her epilepsy with neurofeedback and I'm convinced that it is a powerful tool for normalizing brain function.  The Othmers (EEG Info folks) are top notch.  They can likely point you to some local options (or more info) if you wish to pursue it.

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## dannno

You might need to go off the SSRIs more slowly. SSRIs you can take your prescribed dose every other day for a couple weeks or so, then go down to every 3 days for a couple weeks or so maybe. If you haven't been taking them that long then it probably won't be too terrible.

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## Todd

I hope you'll reconsider and find a better doctor.  Bi polar is nothing to screw areound with.  I'm sure you understand that.
Good luck Wiz..

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## donnay

Make sure that you go under doctor supervision to wean off any psychotropic drug.  If you do not do that you may have psychotic episodes--suicide/homicide.





> So no more meds with the occasional Zyprexa if insomnia becomes unbearable and I don't have an alternative which I am researching.


There is a homeopathic supplement called Calm Forte you can try for insomnia.  Camomile tea is great to drink a hour or so before bed as well.  Also Valerian Root supplements are great for anxiety and calmness.  L-Theanine is also great for anxiety, nervousness and is said to help relieve stress.


Best wishes!

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## tod evans

A tad of poppy nectar helps sleep if legalities aren't a big issue.





> Make sure that you go under doctor supervision to wean off any psychotropic drug.  If you do not do that you may have psychotic episodes--suicide/homicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a homeopathic supplement called Calm Forte you can try for insomnia.  Camomile tea is great to drink a hour or so before bed as well.  Also Valerian Root supplements are great for anxiety and calmness.  L-Theanine is also great for anxiety, nervousness and is said to help relieve stress.
> 
> 
> Best wishes!

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## DerailingDaTrain

//

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## dannno

I know others have mentioned it, but I really want to emphasize a couple of things.

You need to ween off them slowly, ask your doctor about how to ween off of them.

You REALLY need to improve your diet. As a general rule don't buy any food in a shiny or colorful wrapper. As much fresh fruits and vegetables as possible. Almond butter, almond milk. If you eat grains, eat whole grains. Get away from the preservatives and highly processed foods. No soda, no diet soda. Try pure coconut water (not the kind with sugar added). Or fresh squeezed juices and mostly water, preferably not out of the tap.

You also need to exercise. Find something you really enjoy that has some cardio aspect to it, and I would recommend pairing it with yoga. Yoga is great exercise and you can also incorporate meditation into that very easily.

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## economics102

Going off-meds can be a good idea in general but for bi-polar you really shouldn't do it unsupervised. Find a doctor who agrees with a no-meds approach and will work with you on your plan to do this.

Don't be in such a hurry to do this that you ignore the risks. You signed on to the risks of going off-med when you went on-med. Take the needed process seriously, this is not the kind of disorder you should be dealing with without a doctor.

Above all, I wish you the best in your recovery.

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## Slacker

Dude, Zyprexa turned me into a zombie and i gained like 50 pounds on it, definitely get off them. I quit prozac too. I just started eating healthier and started taking fish oil supplements, and that was much more effective for my mental health.

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## wizardwatson

I'm going to wean off them guys don't freak out.  I know how psychotic these things can make you if you try to go cold turkey I've been reading a lot about it.  I also have a med doc and a therapist I'm seeing and I'm also trying to eat right and exercise.  

So don't worry, this thread isn't a cry for help I've thought a lot about this for a long time I just wanted a thread to document my journey of trying to go med free and treat my bipolar more holistically.  Thought it would be good and maybe some others might have some tips.  That blog linked above has a lot of good info and reinforces my belief that a lot of what initially triggered my episodes is perhaps nutritional.

Anyway I have a family to think about so I'm not just going to throw caution to the wind.  I'm just wanting to get off the meds and use the Zyprexa "hopefully" as symptoms arrive.  I'm still not for certain I'll be able to do this.  But I've decided to try.

So maybe I was a little hardcore with the thread title.  I've decided to stop but not going to stop them all at once overnight.  I'll try to update the thread with my progress.  I'm hoping I can be off these in a couple months.

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## Slacker

> I also have a med doc and a therapist I'm seeing and *I'm also trying to eat right* and exercise.


You don't have to eat like a limp wristed hippie vegan, go paleo... http://lewrockwell.com/mercola/mercola155.html

and this is the fish oil supplement I take...
http://www.amazon.com/Coromega-Omega...f=pd_sim_hpc_4

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## Todd

> Anyway I have a family to think about so I'm not just going to throw caution to the wind.  I'm just wanting to get off the meds and use the Zyprexa "hopefully" as symptoms arrive.  I'm still not for certain I'll be able to do this.  But I've decided to try.


How do you plan to monitor yourself for signs of symptoms?   I've heard it's very difficult to notice the warning signs.

Bi polar runs very prominantly in my wife's family.

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## wizardwatson

> You don't have to eat like a limp wristed hippie vegan, go paleo... http://lewrockwell.com/mercola/mercola155.html
> 
> and this is the fish oil supplement I take...
> http://www.amazon.com/Coromega-Omega...f=pd_sim_hpc_4


Thanks.  Good links.  And again I am really starting to believe after all the research I've been doing that my atrocious diet ever since I was a kid is the main culprit.  Thanks everyone else for the links and advice.  I'm looking into this Omega 3 fish oil thing, I read somewhere else that people with mental problems were taking it.

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## wizardwatson

> How do you plan to monitor yourself for signs of symptoms?   I've heard it's very difficult to notice the warning signs.
> 
> Bi polar runs very prominantly in my wife's family.


It usually takes me 1 to 2 weeks to get manic.  Usually starts with me getting a burst of creativity, like a desire to write or research something.  Slowly the insomnia creeps up on me and my senses start getting more alert.  Smells and sounds get crisper.  Then finally the delusional thoughts start taking hold. 

My wife also notices because my face changes, my laugh changes.  

After being through it a few times though I no longer play into the delusions and the desire to walk off alone and do other unpredicatable things.  Like in the last episode I had I was very controlled and my wife even said so.  I didn't talk crazy I just walked a lot and listened to music.  Internally I was still struggling with thoughts but nothing I wasn't able to handle.  My primary problem is the insomnia.  I can control the manic behavior but I can't make myself sleep.  This is why I say I may still have to fall back on the Zyprexa if I can't find a more natural replacement for that symptom.  

But yeah, it can be hard to notice the symptoms especially since bipolar people enjoy the manic phase and will convince themselves that nothing is really wrong and that they feel good.  That was the trap I fell into when I had my first and worst episode.  I didn't think anything was wrong with me I thought something grand was happening to me got all delusional and religious and played into it.  Some people never escape that trap because it's so enjoyable when you are in it.

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## FunkBuddha

I was on Zyprexa for about 6 months because of a misdiagnosis of bi-polar disorder. I gained 40 pounds during that time. I would get up and eat Zebra cakes in the middle of the night and not even realize it. I had an insatiable craving for sugar. I quit taking it cold turkey and I was back down to my normal weight in about 2 months. I have super high metabolism though. That $#@! is bad. I was a total zombie.

For the insomnia, I took melatonin and valerian root every night at the exact same time for about a year. Now I turn in to a pumpkin at 10:00 if I'm not doing anything to keep busy. I still have trouble staying asleep though. I wake up after 3 or 4 hours with racing thoughts and I have trouble getting back to sleep.

As it turns out, I'm not bi-polar but according to the psychologist that re-diagnosed me, I have "strong obsessive tendencies". I can't imagine what it's like going through a maniacal episode but get off that Zyprexa $#@! as soon as you can.

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## pcgame

............

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## DamianTV

> I've decided to stop taking my meds.
> 
> I was diagnosed as bi-polar after having a severe manic episode in April of '08 that was complete with racing delusional thoughts, insomnia, delusions of grandeur, and ended with me in jail, and then in a psych facility when the police realized I was out of my mind.  The episode lasted about two weeks during which I had virtually no sleep.  It ended when I got to the psych facility and they gave me a little medicine called Zyprexa 5mg which knocked me out cold in less than 30 minutes.
> 
> The meds they prescribed me, depakote the first time, made me feel like $#@! so I stopped taking them almost immediately.  A year later in '09 another episode.  This one wasn't as bad from a ramifications point of view because I knew not to feed into all the delusions I was having, but nevertheless ended back up in a psych facility for a few days.  Made a half-hearted attempt to stay on the meds but after about 6 months on them I just stopped taking them and about 6 months after that had a third episode and again ended up in a psych facility.
> 
> During the third episode before being admitted I made an attempt to manage the symptoms and get on meds.  They put me on Lamictal but that didn't do anything so I got admitted just so they would prescribe me some zyprexa which I knew worked.  So after the third one I made a firm decision to stay on meds to prevent these episodes from reoccuring even though my ability to manage them and keep myself calm was improving.
> 
> So that decision was nearly two years ago during which I've been on 15mg Zyprexa for a year, dropped down to 10mg for this last year and 300mg Lamictal (even though me and my doctor don't know if this drug is doing anything for me).  A couple months ago I got extremely depressed (which I now believe is a direct side effect of being on the Zyprexa so long) had suicidal ideation and my therapist recommended I talk to my doctor about going on an anti-depressent.  I thought ok, good, maybe this is what I need to balance out the Zyprexa which makes me feel like a half-zombie.  Been on it for two weeks.  They say it can take about 5 weeks for full effect but I can tell what it does already.  It doesn't really elevate the mood so much as put your brain in a "comfort zone" but it destroys your emotional range, never really that happy or that sad.  But the real reason I'm stopping it, which is apparently common to all SSRI's is that it completely destroys your sex drive.  This is unacceptable.
> ...


I think that real medical conditions do exist, but I dont believe that all these medications all help the people they are prescribed to.  They are prescribed by the legalized crack pushers to support the bottom line of the giant phamacutical drug cartels far too often.

If you need support getting through this, there are people here that will support you in your efforts to free yourself from your prescribed dependancy.  Your path wont be the easiest, but it wont be impossible either.

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## Perry

> Good luck man. I trust you know what's best for yourself. Keep us updated.


That's some ignorant trust.
There are two types of people who shouldn't be trusted to know what's best for themselves. Bipolars & schizophrenics.
One REALLY needs a second opinion from someone who monitors you on a daily basis before stopping that kind of med.

I have a close family member who for years had major episodes and it was only stopped with the drug risperdone(1mg per day). 
Thank God for that miracle.

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## liberalnurse

You may want to try Vit D3 supplements.  I take 5000 units a day, every day.  Sun or not.  One of its benefits is mood stablization. 
http://www.livestrong.com/article/47...tamin-d3-mood/   I also take a mega red krill oil, Vit k2 and a food based calicum supplement daily.

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## Bern

> ... I'm looking into this Omega 3 fish oil thing, I read somewhere else that people with mental problems were taking it.


http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/...-acid-dha-559/

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## TCE

Definitely take high-quality omega-3 supplements. Google it, but there's a ton of good information out there. Plus, they don't cost very much. It takes a month or so to get "right," but they definitely help.

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## pcgame

...........

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## dannno

> You don't have to eat like a limp wristed hippie vegan





> Jon Fitch has dropped meat from his diet as he prepares for his UFC 127 main event against B.J. Penn.






*Vegetarianism all the rage in MMA*

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slu...etarians021711

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## Brian4Liberty

> For the insomnia, I took melatonin and valerian root every night at the exact same time for about a year. Now I turn in to a pumpkin at 10:00 if I'm not doing anything to keep busy. I still have trouble staying asleep though. I wake up after 3 or 4 hours with racing thoughts and I have trouble getting back to sleep.
> ...


Yeah, the melatonin and valerian root are supposed to help. Haven't tried them myself.

Meditation is also highly recommended. The whole point is to relax your brain and turn off for while. The more you do it, the better you become, so eventually you are so good at it, you can turn off "racing thoughts" whenever you want. At least that's the theory.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> That's some ignorant trust.
> There are two types of people who shouldn't be trusted to know what's best for themselves. Bipolars & schizophrenics.
> One REALLY needs a second opinion from someone who monitors you on a daily basis before stopping that kind of med.
> 
> I have a close family member who for years had major episodes and it was only stopped with the drug risperdone(1mg per day). 
> Thank God for that miracle.


I agree with this. Someone with a mental illness will think they are just fine and dandy but to someone observing them they could be acting very peculiar.

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## Zippyjuan

My brother's ex wife was bipolar.  She would go off her meds for a while and then go into depression again. The up and down was so stressful for him that he developed depression as well and tried treatments and different medications to no avail. What worked for him? Divorce but that wasn't easy to do either. When he would try to kick her out, she would go into her moods and he would feel bad and put it off. 

Have you tried working with your doctor on reducing your meds? Perhaps reducing them slowly will let your body adapt?  Quitting cold turkey may end up being counter productive and put your body into shock creating more imbalances.

Good luck with whatever you try to do!

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## Elwar

For the insomnia you may want to try Benadryl. My wife usually has a hard time sleeping, the only thing that worked for her was Benadryl (the generic at Walmart is the same chemical and much cheaper).

However you build a tolerance to it after a while.

My brother is a Chiropractor and he suggests exercise and fresh air.

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## brandon

> I agree with this. Someone with a mental illness will think they are just fine and dandy but to someone observing them they could be acting very peculiar.


Often times the side effects from the atypical antipsychotics can end up being worse than the illness in the long run. Obesity, cardiovascular disease, and tardive diskenesia are all common long term physical side effects. And they can leave your mind worse off than it was to begin with.  I once came across a few studies that showed schizophrenics had a much better long term prognosis in 3rd world countries than in the US. After accounting for many variables, the study suggested that the absence of antipsychotics and stronger community support had the strongest correlation with a good prognosis. 

Modern psychiatry should not be blindly trusted. I don't know what the best answer is. And I don't think the doctors do either. That's why I think it's important to let the patient make their own decisions. If OP decides the risk of occasional bouts of mania outweighs the side effects from the treatment, then that is his decision to make. And in this case, it's pretty obvious OP is making this decision with a clear mind. Forced drugging doesn't seem too libertarian to me anyway.

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## pcgame

................

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Often times the side effects from the atypical antipsychotics can end up being worse than the illness in the long run. Obesity, cardiovascular disease, and tardive diskenesia are all common long term physical side effects. And they can leave your mind worse off than it was to begin with.  I once came across a few studies that showed schizophrenics had a much better long term prognosis in 3rd world countries than in the US. After accounting for many variables, the study suggested that the absence of antipsychotics and stronger community support had the strongest correlation with a good prognosis. 
> 
> Modern psychiatry should not be blindly trusted. I don't know what the best answer is. And I don't think the doctors do either. That's why I think it's important to let the patient make their own decisions. If OP decides the risk of occasional bouts of mania outweighs the side effects from the treatment, then that is his decision to make. And in this case, it's pretty obvious OP is making this decision with a clear mind. Forced drugging doesn't seem too libertarian to me anyway.


My only concern is that the effects of withdrawal and the fact that he is bi-polar could cause some big problems and that he could be a danger to himself and others at that point.

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## pcgame

............

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## Slacker

> *Vegetarianism all the rage in MMA*
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slu...etarians021711

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## McChronagle

I would highly recommend the primal blueprint diet (paleo) as others have. It can have a big effect on depression and general mood.

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## tod evans

SSRI's are a sword that cuts both ways, be really careful getting off of them!

Often times 6-12 months later folks experience residual effects.

If you don't mind ignoring "standing-law" mother-nature provides plenty of human friendly remedies.

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## rpwi

If you do a search for 'bipolor' 'natural cures', you will find a lot of good results.

eg http://www.alternativementalhealth.c...rtreatment.htm

While that has some good 'physical' remedies...it might be worth exploring psychiatry as there is usually an unresolved emotional component here.

If you are open minded...there are some more 'fantastic' cures out there.

People have reported success with AIM.  (in essence electronic homeopathy...all about vibrations...)

http://www.aimprogram.com/

Then there is:

'Remarkable Healings: A Psychiatrist Discovers Unsuspected Roots of Mental and Physical Illness'

By Dr. Shakuntala Modi

You know how people believe ghosts....what if there are entities that exist that don't wish us well.  That are denied a human body, so actively seek one out to experience the physical realm vicariously?  What if some of these entities never incarnated as humans?  What Dr. Modi discovers in hypnosis is stunning...almost all of us have these entities that feed on our negative emotions like energetic parasites.  These energetic parasites can't access our energy directly...so need us to step it down like a transformer using negative emotions.  They can irritate the body to goad us into lowering our energy level for consumption (depleting our vitality in the process).  While sounding somewhat fantastic...what is incredible is the remarkable (supernatural) healings her patients experience when they confront the dark emotions and entities that are attached to them during hypnosis.  There are other books like this...don't know if this is your thing.

There are tons of options available and did you the right thing going off the meds

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## bubbleboy

I've witness depression dissapear in my life and others.  Find yourself a GOOD NLP master practitioner.  They can show you how to stop depressing yourself by way of changing your unconsious behaviors, and they can do it for you by installing a more usefull stradegy than the one you use to depress yourself.  
How will you feel when being depressed is replaced by the feeling you want to have now? How will you feel when reading this now is a sign you've already decided to grow and evolve? 
Now I know that you are wondering certain things, and its a good thing to wonder.  And the very fact that you wondering means that you can, change things in your life, at an unconcious level, and a consious level, so that you behavior will begin to shift, and change, into the direction that your moving in your life NOW.

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## donnay

Mental imbalances along with chronic illnesses are due to a nutritional deficiency.

There are 90 essential nutrients our body needs daily and our food is depleted from most of it.

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## bubbleboy

> Mental imbalances along with chronic illnesses are due to a nutritional deficiency.
> 
> There are 90 essential nutrients our body needs daily and our food is depleted from most of it.


Dr. Joel Wallach's Youngevity?  We love it.

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## ShowMeLiberty

> I suggest reading this doctor's blog from start to finish.
> 
> http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogsp...e-disease.html
> 
>   This should get you up to speed on what science has to say about the relationship between nutrition and mental health.  Get your nutrition in order, regular exercise, then get started in some kind of meditation practice. 
> 
> Good luck!!!


This! This! This!

I can't blame you a bit for wanting to stop the meds. Just please get some solid nutrition and lifestyle information. I wish you the very best of luck!

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