# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  TODAY Thanksgiving Family Forum, Des Moine, IA 4PM CST Hosted/Moderated By FOX Frank Luntz

## HOLLYWOOD

Fox Fascist News just announced that Frank Luntz will be moderating/hosting the GOP Presidential Forum where 3,000+ people are showing up to see 6 of the 8 candidates. Mitt Romney is not attending... again avoiding scrutiny. This will be the largest publicly attended forum since Ames straw poll and until Iowa primary day.

FAUX FRANK LUNTZ... expect devious and intentional destructive questioning to Ron Paul

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/11/1...s-moines-iowa/

Congressman Ron Paul will attend the Thanksgiving Family Forum at the  First Federated Church, 4801 Franklin Ave, Des Moines, IA 50310 on  Saturday, November 19th at 4:00 p.m. Central.

----------


## Fermli

Media: live streams at citizenlink.com and Facebook here and audio at bottradionetwork.com

----------


## sailingaway

I suppose we should watch to give Ron moral support...

----------


## Xelaetaks

I have a bad feeling about luntz. He sounds like a prick, but hopefully Ron can knock some sense in to him.

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## trey4sports

WTF yo, that's today!

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## trey4sports

> I have a bad feeling about luntz. He sounds like a prick, but hopefully Ron can knock some sense in to him.



This is one forum where I hope Ron DOES get less time. He is a front-runner. Just avoid, avoid, avoid.

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## Lavitz

I saw the Fox segment with Luntz earlier (pics in OP). The anchor mentioned Gingrich surging in the polls and Luntz responded by saying that the forum was packed with about 3,000 people and that he guessed that it was mostly because Gingrich was attending  He went on to say that organization is also key in Iowa and claimed that Bachmann and Santorum have had strong ground games. 

No mention of the guy rising to second place in recent polls and ranked #1 in the Iowa power rankings due to his unrivaled organization.

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## wgadget

You know what I have to say to Frank Luntz, right?

FU, Frank.

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## trey4sports

> I saw the Fox segment with Luntz earlier (pics in OP). The anchor mentioned Gingrich surging in the polls and Luntz responded by saying that the forum was packed with about 3,000 people and that he guessed that it was mostly because Gingrich was attending  He went on to say that organization is also key in Iowa and claimed that Bachmann and Santorum have had strong ground games. 
> 
> No mention of the guy rising to second place in recent polls and ranked #1 in the Iowa power rankings due to his unrivaled organization.



Welcome to the board! 

If we can keep the conversation away from drugs, and Iran I think it will be a net win.

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## bluesc

> Welcome to the board! 
> 
> If we can keep the conversation away from drugs, and Iran I think it will be a net win.


*Luntz takes notes*

"Congressman Paul, why do you want the families of Iowa to have heroin forced on them by the tuuurrrrr'ists from Iran that will take over under your presidency?"

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## pacelli

So evidently it was going to be broadcast on C-SPAN but they pulled out for budget reasons... this probably means that the $#@!ty citizenlink stream will be overloaded and the video choppy.

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## trey4sports

> *Luntz takes notes*
> 
> "Congressman Paul, why do you want the families of Iowa to have heroin forced on them by the tuuurrrrr'ists from Iran that will take over under your presidency?"



Yeah, and then he'll ask Newt how he became such a great American.

----------


## pacelli

Also I'm not entirely sure that their audio stream is going to be working.  Can anybody pull this up and hear their programming?

http://www.bottradionetwork.com/audi...m-information/

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## lucent

Why would they put someone whose job it is to deceive people as moderator of a family forum?

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## Birdlady

I'm really nervous about this one. Thankfully I'll be asleep and can just watch the highlights later...lol

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## Uriah

> This is one forum where I hope Ron DOES get less time. He is a front-runner. Just avoid, avoid, avoid.


I disagree. Mostly Iowans will be attending this event. If he is able to clearly articulate all of his positions he will make strides with the social conservatives in this state. This may be the best chance he has to sway many Iowans all at once. I've heard people say that they won't decide or endorse until after this event. This will be a powerful forum despite Frank Luntz moderating the event. Put your positive thoughts on this event.

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## wgadget

So what's the difference (in minutes) between a debate and a forum?

On the positive side, there will be fewer people on stage at this one.

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## pacelli

Again, is the audio stream working for anyone?  They supposedly have programming going right now.  I'd rather test this thing out NOW before their websites are overloaded due to C-SPAN cancelling.

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## V3n

This is hosted by the same people/person ("The Family Leader") who wrote the pledge that basically said black families were better off under slavery.  (Bachmann and Santorum signed it!)

h xxp://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/07/08/264264/the-family-leaders-marriage-pledge-says-unwed-slaves-preferable-parents-for-african-americans/

And Frank Luntz is the moderator.  The whole thing smells fishy.

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## james1906

> 


This guy used to be Cher's daughter, right?

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## 69360



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## HOLLYWOOD

So, Iowa Grassroots going to be in the audience?

I'm surprised this wasn't posted earlier to coordinate activity in Des Moines.

This is going to take as much support as possible in the audience this evening. We all know, the NEOCONs have the setups waiting.

on a minor note: I hope the campaign staff has coached Ron on his public speaking skills. Eliminate all the "AND DAHs", "BUT AHs", "Wellllllllll" just a simple replacement with a (.) period./ pause.

I hope RP emphasizes and personally link his policies and statements how it directly and indirectly effects you/the people/the country.  Minimize the philosophical statements.

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## wgadget

Geez. I'm thinking not many people will be seeing this one..ourselves included if the stream becomes overloaded.

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## Kodaddy

Uh....I know its been said many times, but.....



F U Frank!

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## LibertyIn08

> So, Iowa Grassroots going to be in the audience?
> 
> *I'm surprised this wasn't posted earlier to coordinate activity in Des Moines.*
> 
> This is going to take as much support as possible in the audience this evening. We all know, the NEOCONs have the setups waiting.
> 
> on a minor note: I hope the campaign staff has coached Ron on his public speaking skills. Eliminate all the "AND DAHs", "BUT AHs", "Wellllllllll" just a simple replacement with a (.) period./ pause.
> 
> I hope RP emphasizes and personally link his policies and statements how it directly and indirectly effects you/the people/the country.  Minimize the philosophical statements.


It was - my thread about it was mostly ignored.

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## sailingaway

A bunch of us posted on it, particularly when it was discovered Luntz would be there.  Ron is doing what he needs to do.

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## LibertyIn08

> A bunch of us posted on it, particularly when it was discovered Luntz would be there.  Ron is doing what he needs to do.

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## trey4sports

> This guy used to be Cher's daughter, right?



i don't know but i think he'd get mad ass at a lesbian bar.

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## Bruno

Anyone know about ticket info?  I can go, and it is less than a mile from my house.

Edit: Just called HQ.  It is sold out.  Not too long ago they had 2000 seats left of the 3500 available.

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## pacelli

> Geez. I'm thinking not many people will be seeing this one..ourselves included if the stream becomes overloaded.


I agree.  I think it is pretty much a guarantee that the stream will become choppy and overloaded.  C-SPAN recently pulled out of televising it.  So I doubt they'll be ready for the traffic.  To plan ahead I've been trying to ask someone else to help look into the radio feed which isn't working for me.

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## FSP-Rebel

> Anyone know about ticket info?  I can go, and it is less than a mile from my house.


Not sure about this one in particular but Frank was on Hannity's show yesterday talking about how people sign up at his website and then people are contacted (based upon their info) to attend said focus groups.

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## Bruno

> Not sure about this one in particular but Frank was on Hannity's show yesterday talking about how people sign up at his website and then people are contacted (based upon their info) to attend said focus groups.


Thanks.  Just found out from HQ and the website it is sold out.

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## r3volution

frank was busted in 08 stacking his "focus groups" . the guy is scum , FU frank .

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## r3volution



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## Bruno

> frank was busted in 08 stacking his "focus groups" . the guy is scum , FU frank .


Frank told me at the Ames Straw Poll that if RP was 1st or 2nd it would be a big deal and it would be covered that way.  Liar!  

Hope he treats Ron more fairly, fingers crossed, but still have one pointed in his direction!

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## Sola_Fide

Does anyone else think there will be a concerted effort to go after the front-runner?

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## islather

how long till this is on?

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## HOLLYWOOD

> I agree.  I think it is pretty much a guarantee that the stream will become choppy and overloaded.  C-SPAN recently pulled out of televising it.  So I doubt they'll be ready for the traffic.  To plan ahead I've been trying to ask someone else to help look into the radio feed which isn't working for me.


FNC (FOX) has been posting about it all morning/afternoon... but they're not covering it?

I'm sure FOX will "Cherry Pick" the coverage.

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## trey4sports

Really looking forward to this though.

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## wgadget

> how long till this is on?



It said 4pm Central Time.  Not sure what time that would be in New Zealand.

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## wgadget

Frank dabbles in State-Endorsed Propaganda Techniques, which I find sickening, frankly.

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## PauliticsPolitics

This is going to be a horror show.
Luntz is the ultimate spinster.
Yes, for the neocon & banking agenda; but more important: for Gingrich.
Newt and Luntz have been working together since the 90s (Luntz gave the 1994 "Contract with America" its name and he is also considered the architect).
Luntz wants to be the next Karl Rove, and it seems Gingrich is his long time client and ally.
If you google around, you will see that Newt has "won" almost every one of Luntz's post-debate sham "focus groups."

We know many of Gingrich's biggest flaws are, what you might call, family issues.
In this regard, I believe Luntz is going to use this "Family Forum" to repaint Gingrich as THE pro-family candidate.
This is what Luntz does for a living, he rewords and converts negative things as positive, and vice versa.

So look for this spin. I don't necessarily think this debate will be bad for RP. But Luntz will surely do everything possible in order to remake Newt as the ultimate pro-family choice.  Of course, this is assuming that another candidate hasn't recently started paying Luntz more...

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## sailingaway

They've got this 'Newt reborn' thing going.  They'll have a hard time stretching it to cover TARP approval, NAFTA cheerleading, being for global warming regulations, and his Freddie and big PHRMA lobbying, though.

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## pen_thief

> Fox Fascist News


LOL! I agree :P

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## Ronulus

> They've got this 'Newt reborn' thing going.  They'll have a hard time stretching it to cover TARP approval, NAFTA cheerleading, being for global warming regulations, and his Freddie and big PHRMA lobbying, though.


Not with Luntz covering it.

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## Original_Intent

Man, I know it would be bad form, but wouldn't it be great for Paul to ask "Is it really appropriate to have someone who is practically on Newt Gingrich's campaign moderating this event?"

Ron has way too much class to say it. Hopefully the audience sees thru Luntz' crap.

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## 69360

> They've got this 'Newt reborn' thing going.  They'll have a hard time stretching it to cover TARP approval, NAFTA cheerleading, being for global warming regulations, and his Freddie and big PHRMA lobbying, though.


Newt is too tempting for the other candidates to smear. He's the low hanging fruit right now. I think they will go after today or in the next debate. Maybe even some attack ads.

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## PauliticsPolitics

And, just for fun, you should watch Luntz on Colbert.
Colbert basically hires him to "help" with his Super Pac message.
For some reason, Luntz has no problem revealing his profession for its scamming ways.
It's a recurring segment, but I think these are all of them so far.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/394777/august-16-2011/colbert-super-pac---frank-luntz-commits-to-the-pac
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/400559/october-24-2011/colbert-super-pac----corporations-are-people----frank-luntz
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...-s-focus-group

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## PauliticsPolitics

The Live FEED of this Family Forum is currently ON.
hxxp://www.citizenlink.com/

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## Ronulus

All I get is constant buffering.

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## sailingaway

Picture of occupiers outside the forum:



http://yfrog.com/z/gy10tsmj

and occupyiowacaucus is tweeting this as their gameplan for Jan 1-3: http://occupythecaucus.org/

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## beardedlinen

It's starting.

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## bluesc

> Picture of occupiers outside the forum:
> 
> 
> 
> http://yfrog.com/z/gy10tsmj


They are gonna piss me off come Jan 3rd.

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## sailingaway

looks like they clear the table there by throwing what's on it into a pile:

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## mconder

Come on you guys...stop joining. You're going to choke the stream.

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## wgadget

> Man, I know it would be bad form, but wouldn't it be great for Paul to ask "Is it really appropriate to have someone who is practically on Newt Gingrich's campaign moderating this event?"
> 
> Ron has way too much class to say it. Hopefully the audience sees thru Luntz' crap.



Anyone think Newtie will be playing his Criticize The Media role today?

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## HOLLYWOOD

> This is going to be a horror show.
> *Luntz is the ultimate spinster.*
> Yes, for the neocon & banking agenda; but more important: for Gingrich.
> *Newt and Luntz have been working together since the 90s (Luntz gave the 1994 "Contract with America" its name and he is also considered the architect*).
> Luntz wants to be the next Karl Rove, and it seems Gingrich is his long time client and ally.
> *If you google around, you will see that Newt has "won" almost every one of Luntz's post-debate sham "focus groups.*"
> 
> We know many of Gingrich's biggest flaws are, what you might call, family issues.
> In this regard, *I believe Luntz is going to use this "Family Forum" to repaint Gingrich as THE pro-family candidate.*
> ...


I will be surely amazing to see the career spinster fool the audiences of this  Newt flandering 'Mr International' who pushed for; War in Kosovo, War in Bosnia, and Bailed-Out Mexico, which was later revealed to be a backdoor bailout to Goldman Sachs exposure in Zorro Country.

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## mconder

Is that the best singer they could come up with?

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## PauliticsPolitics

Man, there is something about this whole production that makes me feel like I am watching late 80's Televangelism.

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## sailingaway

> Man, there is something about this whole production that makes me feel like I am watching late 80's Televangelism.


Well, it's their thing. They have a right to put it on in their style.

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## bluesc

Wow this guy is an idiot. That joke just totally bombed.

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## beardedlinen

lol.  Van Plaats "Winning" fail.

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## PauliticsPolitics

> Man, there is something about this whole production that makes me feel like I am watching late 80's Televangelism.





> Well, it's their thing. They have a right to put it on in their style.


Totally.

I was not surprised so much by the evangelism, or even the televangelism, more the late 80s vibe.

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## islather

hmm starting to chop a bit for me...  hope this feed lasts

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## Karsten

Yeah that will be a wow all right.

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## liberty2012

..

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## Karsten

stream is fine for me.  it's on your end.

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## sailingaway

"Doctor" Frank Luntz?  Is he going to call Ron Paul "Doctor" Paul?

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## Karsten

Well there's 3000 viewers.  Can't all be ours.

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## Suzu

The volume is very low. Does anyone know how to reach the people operating the event and ask them to up the sound for the online stream?

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## mconder

I can see why Romney bailed on this. This guys are hardcore evangelicals. Many of them have actually been taught that Mormons have devil horns.

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## messana

Hyping up Frank as legitimate so he can bash Ron Paul.

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## sailingaway

I really don't want to branch out into personal attacks just because I'm bored with preliminaries.

I will say nothing about lizard tongues.

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## jware

The Frank Luntz praise is making me sick

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## Karsten

You should be nervous $#@!!

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## sailingaway

> Well there's 3000 viewers.  Can't all be ours.


sure they can.

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## Bruno

Just drove by and Occupy Des Moines (I think it was) had finished after protest.  I asked one if she had a republican candidate she supports.  She said none of them I told her to check out Ron Paul.  She muttered something as I left when traffic came, Lol.

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## RecoveringNeoCon

LOL @ the way Frank is talking....

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## Oddone

Learn more? Sound Bites? World View?

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## bluesc

Frank Luntz trying to build trust.

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## RecoveringNeoCon

All the candidates are going to be on stage at the same time, right?

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## sailingaway

Luntz..... is difficult to listen to.

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## sailingaway

No gotcha but you're going to challenge them....

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## parocks

no gotcha questions.  and lots of time.  wow, yeah, it's almost as if newt gets a free ride.

hey 89 "simply wrong"

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## jonhowe

Shouted out to ROn Paul just now in a BIG way. WOW!

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## bluesc

Yay, mentioned the 89 seconds.

----------


## JCF

Hmm.

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## Lomez

Hey, he mentioned the Paul/89 seconds thing

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## RecoveringNeoCon

I Love u frank!!!!! He mentioned the 89 seconds!!! lmao

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## Suzu

LOVE U FRANK!

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## jware

Said Ron Paul's receiving only 89 seconds was wrong, wont happen at this debate!!

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## islather

wow mentioning ron paul already!

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## HOLLYWOOD

FU Frank Luntz.... Brine the Turkeys in the audience.

Manipulator Eh?

Ouch FOX slams CBS

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## jsingh1022

Frank Luntz just called out CBS for only giving Ron 89 seconds... amazing!

----------


## liberty2012

..

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## sailingaway

> Yay, mentioned the 89 seconds.


no, they want to put Ron on the spot and make GINGRICH look like a family leader, lol!

But Ron believes what he believes. If they actually don't cut him off, he'll say what he believes and may not be everyone's first choice, but clearly won't have two heads, either.

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## Tod

Man, they need to turn the sound up!

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## Oddone

> LOVE U FRANK!


OMG MY EYES!

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## bluesc

> no, they want to put Ron on the spot and make GINGRICH look like a family leader, lol!


He's trying to seem credible and fair, and that he's doing these people, and us, a favor. I don't believe that for a second.

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## trey4sports

well he mentioned that Ron getting 89 seconds awas bad so look out for a lot of smearfest questions.

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## Bruno

I will tuck my middle finger back down for now.

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## Ranger29860

You have to get behind someone to stab them in the back.. wait for it Luntz is gonna pull something.

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## bluesc

This OWS crap is set up.

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## sailingaway

Now, this is intelligent.  Making it clear they are NOT stifling freedom of speech by offering to showcase it.  DISRUPTION is not freedom of speech it is disallowing speech.

The state of Nevada guy?  This is occupy? Uh oh.  They are making it about the fed.  Wonder if he was planted, this all seems a bit odd.  OK, do you believe this?  I don't. Are they going to buy that this is real?

sigh, probably some will. Well, must say I didn't anticipate this.

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## Oddone

Ok.. This OWS thing is total BS. What is this?

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## Karsten

Lol this guy is full of it.

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## bluesc

> Ok.. This OWS thing is total BS. What is this?


A set up.

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## Karsten

Oh wait maybe not.

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## trey4sports

platn. calling it now.

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## notsure

Pastor Luntz?!? How is this guy not engulfed with flames yet?

----------


## Lomez

???? So confused

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## thehungarian

I like where this OWS guy is going.

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## parocks

the dude talking about the fed.

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## Oddone

Wait he said OWS... This guy sounds like a Ron Paul supporter.. WTF is Luntz playing at?

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## HOLLYWOOD

KEWL... FEDERAL RESERVE!

$454 BILLION in Interest payments on the Debt.

----------


## Lomez

AHHH He's a Paul supporter

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## bluesc

Haha, linking OWS to Ron Paul.

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## jonhowe

He IS a Ron Paul supporter!  Wow, wtf is going on??

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## tfurrh

Plant?

----------


## Karsten

This guy is bomb! You guys thought he was a socialist lol.

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## Tod

there, sound better!

So far so good for RP!

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## jware

That was...odd

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## jsingh1022

Guy just called out the Federal Reserve and Ron Paul.. this is getting real good

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## PauliticsPolitics

This OWS dude is a shill.
This speech is planned.
Luntz is trying to connect RP to OWS.

But let's see where all this goes.

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## parocks

all frank was saying was "ows" or whoever is going to be an ahole, here's all the time you want.  now, don't be an ahole.  he said ows, but he meant us.

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## Javu

Have to wonder how an Occupier talking about Ron Paul and the reserve is going to be spun against us.

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## Lomez

> This OWS dude is a shill.
> This speech is planned.
> Luntz is trying to connect RP to OWS.


I think you're right.

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## islather

what the f##k is going on here lol

----------


## Oddone

It is NOT good.. Did you NOT listen to who Luntz said he was? He said OWS people and then a guy gets up and supports Ron Paul.

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## thehungarian

That was weird.

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## tfurrh

> This OWS dude is a shill.
> This speech is planned.
> Luntz is trying to connect RP to OWS.


I agree

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## Karsten

> This OWS dude is a shill.
> This speech is planned.
> Luntz is trying to connect RP to OWS.


Yeah, maybe. Anytime you go to a Vegas show and they take a "volunteer" from the audience it's always a plant.  This guy looked prepared.

----------


## Tod

Paul front and center....

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## eleganz

You guys are getting too worked up, the guy just talked about the federal reserve and stressed how important the topic was.  Maybe he is occupy, maybe he is occupy the fed.

----------


## liberty2012

..

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## Karsten

Even as a plant he was saying truth though.

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## AlexG

I tuned in just in time!

----------


## notsure

Will this be recorded and uploaded?

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## sailingaway

> This guy is bomb! You guys thought he was a socialist lol.


he is a fake it is to tie the occupy with Ron and make it look like we were going to disrupt then if there is a disruption by real occupyers it will be tied to Ron.

----------


## bluesc

Stream down for me.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

Stream isnt working, very choppy!

----------


## Karsten

WTF why is Paul at the daddy seat.

----------


## Bruno

Um, Michele pouring water?

----------


## Ranger29860

Paul first wtf?

----------


## Tod

LOL....the only woman does the serving

----------


## AlexG

aww Bachmann performing her womanly duties

----------


## Bruno

Dr Paul beginning with you?

----------


## Karsten

> aww Bachmann performing her womanly duties


Just like at Thanksgiving lol. THis is comical.

----------


## LisaNY

> That had to be the most bizzare sequence i've ever seen on a debate or forum. Luntz is known is the "master manipulator", maybe trying to link OWS to Ron Paul


right out of the box with manipulation.  I think I'll go do laundry instead, can't tolerate this foolishness.

----------


## tfurrh

Great answer!

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## eduardo89

What the hell...thanksgiving was over a month ago

----------


## Bruno

Bam! Awesome answer!

----------


## The Magic Hoof

God damnit, is the stream working for all of you? It's extremely choppy

----------


## Karsten

Lol you're going to Hell cain.

----------


## Sunstruck-Eden

We need a different stream! This one is really choppy!

But good answer Ron!

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## Fermli

> Stream isnt working, very choppy!





> We need a different stream! This one is really choppy!But good answer Ron!





> God damnit, is the stream working for all of you? It's extremely choppy



audio stream is working well.

http://bottradionetwork.com/
Click on Listen Now.

----------


## Bruno

> What the hell...thanksgiving was over a month ago


Um, it is next week, my friend!

----------


## rodo1776

999

----------


## Ranger29860

Wait George Washington did what? Can someone confirm that?

----------


## brendan.orourke

Herman Cain gets more and more intolerable every second.

----------


## Oddone

I can't believe any of you can sit and think that was good for us... Everyone in the audiance would have to of not been listening to make a connection of OWS = Ron Paul Supporters = Going to Interrupt = Ron Paul Supporter = OWS

----------


## AlexG

stream was choppy in facebook, its fine on citizenlink.com

----------


## tfurrh

I like this setup...seems like more opportunity for a debate.

----------


## BUSHLIED

wow, I can't believe what I just heard... if it were any other moderator, I would be like this is great...but with Luntz (I went to one of his focus groups) I am a bit skeptical...

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Can Bachmann make one statement without pandering?  Nope

----------


## Lomez

Gah, this is practically unbearable to listen to.

----------


## bluesc

I can't stand Bachmann.

----------


## Ranger29860

Is she really still talking? I muted her awhile ago :P

----------


## tfurrh

> I like this setup...seems like more opportunity for a debate.


Waaaaaiiiitttt a minute. Is this going to be all Christian related topics?

----------


## Karsten

Here comes the thansgiving drunk... we all have one of those!

----------


## islather

perry looks like hes wasted already lol

----------


## trey4sports

thought perry was going to call god the eternal wizard.

----------


## Bruno

> Waaaaaiiiitttt a minute. Is this going to be all Christian related topics?


It is held in church.

----------


## bluesc

This pandering is so hard to watch.

----------


## sailingaway

OK, now I feel badly even for Perry. NONE of these people should have to put up with Luntz pontificating.

----------


## Bruno

Geez, Perry scares me to death!

----------


## PauliticsPolitics

> Waaaaaiiiitttt a minute. Is this going to be all Christian related topics?


Well, "Family" related, which tends to mean Christian now a days.

----------


## Ranger29860

> This pandering is so hard to watch.


no kidding. I'm trying to sit through it but i can't make it through mroe than a few seconds each

----------


## tfurrh

> It is held in church.


And Romney & Huntsman aren't there? odd.

----------


## coastie

> It is held in church.



Good, thenn maybe they can explain why people have to die in other parts of the world, via our military.




Judging from the intro, I somehow doubt that.

----------


## Ranger29860

O GOD please Santorum please keep talking

----------


## Fermli

"Among those who report no religious preference in Iowa, Paul is winning a majority at nearly 59 percent."

----------


## walt

> thought perry was going to call god the eternal wizard.


Perry's hair looks like Henry Winkler of Happy Days aged....with his current hair...

----------


## Karsten

> "Among those who report no religious preference in Iowa, Paul is winning a majority at nearly 59 percent."


No reason he can't also get the religious vote.

----------


## Dissident

I understand the skepticism, but "the guy from OWS" is not a plant.

----------


## Ranger29860

ROFL Luntz

----------


## trey4sports

oh $#@! that was funny. Frank

----------


## tfurrh

that was actually funny.

----------


## coastie

Hahaha LMAO, good one frank.

"What message was god sending you when you lost the Senate race?"

----------


## bluesc

> I understand the skepticism, but "the guy from OWS" is not a plant.


Yes he was. You don't know Frank Luntz.

----------


## BUSHLIED

Perry is so nervous I think he is going to have a panic attack eventually...

----------


## Oddone

> I understand the skepticism, but "the guy from OWS" is not a plant.


The point is, even if he wasn't it was not good to link Ron Paul to OWS infront of this group of voters.

----------


## Karsten

> Perry is so nervous I think he is going to have a panic attack eventually...


We need him to survive until the caucus to split the vote.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

im about to give up on the stream =/

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

I want to hold a GOP pageant where everyone is in a sound proof fish bowl and I bring each on out one at a time to answer the same question.

Give them exercise going back and forth into the booth... Give them the .gov FSP test too. The phonies and panderers would be exposed immediately.

NEWT reciting Ron Paul... imagine that

----------


## Ranger29860

How is that a value?

----------


## beardedlinen

> And Romney & Huntsman aren't there? odd.


Dunno if you're being sarcastic or not.  They would not do well in this forum.  They're Mormons.

----------


## Karsten

> The point is, even if he wasn't it was not good to link Ron Paul to OWS infront of this group of voters.


But if it ends up giving Ron Paul more time and more talking about the Fed, might end up being good.

----------


## walt

> Yes he was. You don't know Frank Luntz.


+1

----------


## Publicani

god... blah,blah,blah,... abortion... blah,blah,blah, faith... 

All problems are about to be solved, all questions answered, we'll finally know who to vote for!

----------


## Bruno

Please pontificate and educate us, oh wise Newt!

----------


## tfurrh

> Dunno if you're being sarcastic or not.  They would not do well in this forum.  They're Mormons.


Haha, yeah, it was sarcasm.

----------


## flaversaver

> Dunno if you're being sarcastic or not.  They would not do well in this forum.  They're Mormons.


....and liberals as far as I'm concerned.

----------


## bluesc

God damn Newt lovefest.

----------


## Ranger29860

> Please pontificate and educate us, oh wise Newt!


HE didn't say anything of substabce and still got applause  I don't want to live on this planet anymore

----------


## AlexG

You guys gotta admit Newt has way with words, I just cant stand his demeanor

----------


## liberty2012

..

----------


## Fermli

I can't believe Santorum hasn't dropped out by now.

----------


## tfurrh

This debate scares me more than the Commander In Chief debate.
I like Ron's quote that the morality of the people can change the laws, but the laws can never change the morality of the people.

----------


## Bruno

> HE didn't say anything of substabce and still got applause  I don't want to live on this planet anymore


I like to think that was due to the end of a round of questioning.

----------


## coastie

Great, lets get government in film(I know they already are). That is called propaganda, moron.

----------


## sailingaway

> But if it ends up giving Ron Paul more time and more talking about the Fed, might end up being good.


no, it would be seen as an imposition and those watching, the super caucus attendees would be massively turned off.  This isn't about the fed, it is about reaching out to voters to speak to THEIR concerns.

----------


## parocks

santorum is authentic socon

----------


## sailingaway

Ron means can't IMPOSE morality, not can't reflect morality.

----------


## Fermli

GO PAUL GO

I LOVE U

----------


## bluesc

GREAT answer.

----------


## Ranger29860

good answer!!!

----------


## Bruno

Wow, great answer, President Paul!

----------


## bluesc

> Ron means can't IMPOSE morality, not can't reflect morality.


Yep, I noticed that.

----------


## Publicani

Don't make good laws!
Ron Paul - the only one who makes sense!

----------


## bronxboy10

Dr. Paul just gave a great answer on Liberty and how it relates to faith.

----------


## eleganz

yyyyeeeeesssssss


& cain is getting more stupid by the day....

----------


## AlexG

"I would answer that question this way:"  

Cain is so programmed. Some people would just start their answer, instead of prefacing their answer with "here's how I'll answer that"

----------


## liberty2012

..

----------


## bluesc

That was a terrible answer by Cain, what's with the huge cheers?

----------


## Bruno

What with the Cain love on lame answer? Wonder if he padded the seats? $40 tickets and there were 2000 left last week.

----------


## bluesc

> "I would answer that question this way:"  
> 
> Cain is so programmed. Some people would just start their answer, instead of prefacing their answer with "here's how I'll answer that"


It's his internal dialogue coming out. He did it with the Libya answer too.

----------


## Oddone

I don't do any of those things. I must have a horrible life according to Luntz.

----------


## Publicani

> yyyyeeeeesssssss
> 
> 
> & cain is getting more stupid by the day....


and secondly...

----------


## Dissident

Ron is shining.

----------


## Ronulus

Newt "Frank What you just said makes perfect sense!"

----------


## tfurrh

that is completely false, Luntz. 
the bitterest people I know are 'christians'

----------


## Fermli

uhoh Newt attacking liberty?

----------


## BrianH

The way Newt always gets feisty with the moderator does not help his campaign

----------


## Ranger29860

> uhoh Newt attacking liberty?


Thats what i heard  Sadly he got applause

----------


## Tod

He's basically admitting if given liberty he can't keep his pants zipped, I think.  Trouble is, a Christian believes that all things are possible for those who live the Lord. and uh....uh.....wait.  What does that make Noot?

----------


## Oddone

> that is completely false, Luntz. 
> the bitterest people I know are 'christians'


Sad part is Religion does not = happiness. If it was that easy we would all be Christians. No offense ment by that, but we can all agree ones religion does not equate to how happy or close you are to you family.

----------


## Bruno

Newt answers every question historically to baffle with his brilliance and that answer just rambled.

----------


## coastie

> that is completely false, Luntz. 
> the bitterest people I know are 'christians'


No $#@!, the ones I know spend so much time worrying about what everyone else is doing, must be stressful, I imagine.

----------


## Publicani

After everybody except RP, I am sitting thinking WTF? What did he just say? What was it about? What was the point?

----------


## RPSupporter305

Ugh. All this separating of liberals and republicans and believers and nonbelievers is ridiculous. They're doing the same thing Obama is doing with class warfare.

----------


## jonhowe

Gingrich talking about character.  How drole!

----------


## BrianH

This is starting real slow, on warm and fuzzy issues.

----------


## GaryJohnson2016

Rick Perry has severe social anxiety

----------


## sailingaway

I wonder if we can find out who that 'Nevada' Fed guy was and if he's been on Luntz's groups before, like that video showing the same people over and over in Luntz's focus groups....

----------


## Bruno

Who is "our values"?

----------


## BrianH

Perry is making an ass of himself to speak about what pastors should say.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

what happened in the beginning when someone mentioned OWS and the Fed? I missed that part

----------


## sailingaway

sigh, I wish Ron would stick to what is in the Federal sphere since legalization is not in the federal sphere, states have laws.  Just until after January 3.  Oh well.

----------


## Tod

Yay, RP!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Bruno

Good applause line for Paul!

----------


## Ranger29860

Bachman really? IF you want to talk about then no tax breaks simple as that.

----------


## RecoveringNeoCon

Paul is doing great!!

----------


## bluesc

Ron needs to remember who he is speaking to. It was a very good answer, but to social conservatives?

----------


## sailingaway

Ron should actually have addressed what Bachmann is.  That was what the question was, Perry just ducked it and Ron followed Perry's train of thought, not the question.

----------


## NeoconTea

Why is Ron shown from his profile?  The camera view is very unflattering.

----------


## AlexG

They all seem really relaxed, I like this set up

----------


## walt

> I wonder if we can find out who that 'Nevada' Fed guy was and if he's been on Luntz's groups before, like that video showing the same people over and over in Luntz's focus groups....


yeah I have trouble believing that guy traveled from Nevada on his own for this

----------


## tfurrh

Yes, Moses wrote the 10 commandments for American exceptionalism

----------


## Lomez

> Ron should actually have addressed what Bachmann is.  That was what the question was, Perry just ducked it and Ron followed Perry's train of thought, not the question.


I saw it as Ron replying to Newt.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

what happened in the beginning when someone mentioned OWS and the Fed? I missed that part earlier

----------


## Ranger29860

> Why is Ron shown from his profile?  The camera view is very unflattering.


Because that is what we are going to see on the money when they honor him by putting him on it

----------


## sailingaway

> Bachman really? IF you want to talk about then no tax breaks simple as that.


No, I agree with her, people shouldn't be limited in what they can say if they feel it impacts spiritual matters.  Organizing a vote is different.

----------


## TXcarlosTX

Ron Paul is carrying the weight of the Liberty movement on his shoulders!!!

$#@!!!!  no wonder he has to be in shape.

----------


## walt

> Why is Ron shown from his profile?  The camera view is very unflattering.


It's to make him look older and not look the audience in the eye - strange that Newt in in the same position.

----------


## Patrick Henry

I had to turn it off. I really just can't handle Bachmann's screech, Cain's idiocy, and Perry's lispy s's.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

They are all confirming Rons point right now without knowing it!

----------


## NeoconTea

> I saw it as Ron replying to Newt.


Me too

----------


## coastie

999!!!!!!

----------


## sailingaway

> I saw it as Ron replying to Newt.


in any event, it didn't address the question, and it would have been a good one.

Luntz, Ron ALWAYS speaks of personal responsibility!!!!!

----------


## tfurrh

> They all all confirming Rons point right now without knowing it!


"
Yup

----------


## jsingh1022

> Ron needs to remember who he is speaking to. It was a very good answer, but to social conservatives?


He never changes himself to impress an audience. He says what he believes 100% of the time.

----------


## Bruno

None of them talk about freedom except Paul.  And wow, look at who Luntz is being fair to!

----------


## bluesc

Yes Ron!

----------


## Ranger29860

Holy Cow GREAT ANSWER!

----------


## bluesc

> None of them talk about freedom except Paul.  And wow, look at who Luntz is being fair to!


I like this format.

----------


## AlexG

God created government? oh dear

----------


## BrianH

> No, I agree with her, people shouldn't be limited in what they can say if they feel it impacts spiritual matters.  Organizing a vote is different.


It's a tax issue. Abolish the IRS is the right answer.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

what happened in the beginning when someone mentioned OWS and the Federal Reserve? I missed that part

----------


## Lomez

Paul sounds so different from all the other candidates with his answers, it's unreal. I'm hoping some on-the-fence voters notice this.

----------


## Javu

Have to like this forum. So much talking time for Ron.

----------


## FreeTraveler

Dang, I just got here, but the good doctor seems to be shining.

----------


## Ranger29860

> It's a tax issue. Abolish the IRS is the right answer.


I'll take that

----------


## Fermli

Cain: Freedom without responsibility is immoral.

----------


## parocks

bachmann and cain not on point.

----------


## SlowSki

Cain... sounding almost like a libertarian.

----------


## shadowhooch

Bachmann:  "God created government"

hmmmm....oooookay?

----------


## walt

This is so much more pleasant without Romney there...just sayin...

----------


## Ranger29860

WTF is Perry talking about?

----------


## trey4sports

Ron is doing pretty decent. His second to last answer was completely off-topic though.

----------


## Dissident

LOL @ Perry referencing Jefferson and Madison. If alive today, neither would even talk to Perry.

----------


## SlowSki

he loses me with his rambling.

----------


## brendan.orourke

Thumbs up to moderator...he seems like he really knows his stuff.

----------


## Ranger29860

Isreal will get its foreign aid but it starts at 0? WTF does that even mean?

----------


## jware

Wtf is Perry talking about?

----------


## bluesc

> Ron is doing pretty decent. His second to last answer was completely off-topic though.


You can't legislate morality, that was his point. He doesn't want the federal government legislating morality, which is what everyone was advocating.

----------


## tfurrh

Israel funds abortions with our aid too.

----------


## jsingh1022

Rick Perry talking about how he wants intervene in China's abortion affairs ugh

----------


## parocks

blah blah no abortion

----------


## trey4sports

santorum against sexual revolution..... lol how about womens rights? Dip$#@!

----------


## SchleckBros

I love how Rick says he agrees with three of the people here and points toward Ron haha

----------


## Ranger29860

LOL Santorum starting on the gays.. this should get interesting

----------


## pauliticalfan

Did Frothy single out Ron there?

----------


## axlr

> This is so much more pleasant without Romney there...just sayin...


It would be even better without Santorum.

----------


## bluesc

Liberty is about what you OUGHT to do? Lol!

----------


## PreDeadMan

channel??

----------


## Javu

Feel like Sanatorum is just trying to find a reason for his being there. I think even he knows that nobody cares about him.

----------


## badger4RP

Are we sending billions to china? i dont think so...

----------


## bluesc

He's calling out Ron by name.

----------


## Fermli

How long does this last?

----------


## Ranger29860

> channel??


http://www.citizenlink.com/

----------


## BrianH

Santorum: Liberty is not what you WANT to do. It's what you OUGHT to do.   Government legislating morality OK with Santorum I guess.

----------


## trey4sports

> You can't legislate morality, that was his point. He doesn't want the federal government legislating morality, which is what everyone was advocating.



hmm.... i'll have to go back over it. I just remember thinking it was completely off-topic. maybe it was me though.

----------


## SlowSki

i really wish ron could respond to santorum. Is smoking pot immoral since it is illegal?

----------


## Lomez

Gingrich has been quoting people/books this whole forum.

----------


## trey4sports

> Santorum: Liberty is not what you WANT to do. It's what you OUGHT to do.   Government legislating morality OK with Santorum I guess.



Yeah that was absolutely DUMB.

----------


## parocks

Santorum and Ron do have a difference of opinion.  And Santorum is a true socon.   Not a tea party guy.

Cain - Gingrich = Perfect

----------


## BrianH

Cain and Gingrich bad mouthing OWS - big mistake!

----------


## Fermli

I hope Paul brings up freedom with respect to Wall Street.

----------


## Tinnuhana

Cain going after Newt? Do they have to raise their hand to speak? I just came on and they're talking about the states have no right to do wrong. Same for you guys?

----------


## tremendoustie

Hey Santorum: gluttony, drunkenness, gossip, lying, pride, vanity, outbursts of anger, envy, miserliness, etc, are immoral. Should we make them all illegal too?

The difference between Ron any everyone else: Ron is telling the audience what he believes they need to hear, while the others are telling the audience what they want to hear.

----------


## parocks

> i really wish ron could respond to santorum. Is smoking pot immoral since it is illegal?


Santorum is a socon.  It's illegal because it's immoral.

----------


## Johncjackson

> Rick Perry has severe social anxiety


I don't know about that. If he does, he does well for himself. I know plenty of people that do, and they ( WE, really) wouldn't even make it on that stage- or in many cases, out of the house or to school/work.

----------


## Ranger29860

Damn thats a tough question. 9-9-9?

----------


## Kords21

What did the founders think of central banking Cain?

----------


## bluesc

This is a non-answer.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Right now cain has no idea what he is talking about

----------


## bunklocoempire

just got here..  has Seabiscuit gotten much time/questions?

thanks-

----------


## tfurrh

Cain: All men were created equal....except OWS.

----------


## AlexG

Cain is blowing it live lol

----------


## IterTemporis

I just tuned in... Has Frank attacked Ron?

----------


## Ranger29860

lol Cain has no clue what he is saying

----------


## trey4sports

Cain is just dumb.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Ugh... CAIN

If you were talking to the CBC you would be scolding "All Men Creating Equal" by the founders

----------


## AlexG

> I just tuned in... Has Frank attacked Ron?


No he's pretty fair

----------


## Ranger29860

> I just tuned in... Has Frank attacked Ron?


Surprisingly no

----------


## BrianH

Cain cannot answer a simple question who decides what is right and wrong. Babbling about the Founders is off topic.

----------


## bluesc

> I just tuned in... Has Frank attacked Ron?


He's been good.

----------


## S.Shorland

I'm not watching this but I'm completely amazed at how Ron doesn't lose his temper.6 or 8 people literally steal what you stand for,for political gain and you have to be pleasant and polite to them,endlessly.Years of abuse and laughter and he keeps going without one bad word.He's completely amazing.I know that he's fighting for human freedom but I don't think even with that goal in mind that I could stay calm (internally) and not let it wear me down.He obviously chose the right woman in Carol.

----------


## AlexG

CAIN TRAIN WRECK LIVE lol

----------


## parocks

> Santorum: Gluttony, drunkenness, gossip, lying, pride, vanity, outbursts of anger, envy, miserliness, etc, are immoral. Should we make them illegal too?


Santorum says yes to this, because he's a socon.  He is the clearest socon up there.  He doesn't try to talk tea party, 10th Amendment, Liberty at all.

----------


## robmpreston

What a terrible answer from Cain. Wow, what a dumbie.

----------


## Kords21

Get em Ron!

----------


## badger4RP

Here comes the knowledge...

----------


## Fermli

HUGE APPLAUSE FOR RON ON KILLING DEPT OF EDUCATION

----------


## jonhowe

Ron nails it again.

----------


## IterTemporis

Santorum almost always nods in agreement with whatever Ron is saying..

----------


## robmpreston

It's funny, these guys still have disagreements with Paul but it's actually kind of respectful and even entertaining at times now. So different from 2008.

----------


## liberty2012

..

----------


## Eric21ND

> Bachmann:  "God created government"
> 
> hmmmm....oooookay?


Khmer Rouge

----------


## Kords21

What is Perry rambling about?

----------


## BrianH

More book promotion! Only Paul hasn't promoted a book yet!

----------


## pauliticalfan

my stream cut off but it looked like Ron got a lot of applause for whatever he said

----------


## eleganz

omg perry is like the 5 year old attention whore at the annual thanksgiving gathering...



but great great great response from Ron.

----------


## tfurrh

I can't wait for a tube on Cain's previous answer.

----------


## IndianaPolitico

WOW! I tuned in just in time to hear the good Doctor hit the crowd with an amazing answer! Even Santorum was reluctantly nodding!

----------


## pauliticalfan

"I agree with Congressman Paul." -Rick Perry

Another clip! lol

----------


## IterTemporis

> No he's pretty fair





> Surprisingly no





> He's been good.


I need to pinch myself..

Has he been hard on any candidate? I tuned in when Cain was talking and I could not understand what he was saying.. Just like how I cannot understand what Perry is saying sometimes.

----------


## Ranger29860

> I need to pinch myself..
> 
> Has he been hard on any candidate? I tuned in when Cain was talking and I could not understand what he was saying.. Just like how I cannot understand what Perry is saying sometimes.


He went after Santorum and Cain hard

----------


## bluesc

SHUT UP BACHMANN

----------


## bunklocoempire

Bachman and Obamacare -Drink!

----------


## 69360

Frank! Frank! Frank!

----------


## IndianaPolitico

Paul and Perry joking about the 3rd department is hilarious! Ron even did the "5" hand sign.

----------


## SlowSki

> Santorum is a socon.  It's illegal because it's immoral.


I know. It would have been the perfect opportunity for Ron to school Santorum  Though, given the topic and the audience, it is probably better for him not to say anything too crazy. Plus, its Santorum.

----------


## bluesc

Going after Paul again?

----------


## Kords21

Santorum what? Does he not understand that constitution?

----------


## tfurrh

I smell an OWS disruption.

----------


## Fermli

lol Santorum

----------


## pauliticalfan

Santorum: Gay marriage is slavery. 

Oh brother...

----------


## bunklocoempire

Frothy went casual I see...  I think the Fed should make Santorum wear a tie..   Tie-less is WRONG!!

----------


## IterTemporis

> He went after Santorum and Cain hard


That is interesting.. For the first time, I will look forward to watching Herman Cain highlights..

Thank you.

----------


## Tinnuhana

Bachmann totally misreads the "government is upon His shoulder" prophecy.

----------


## Bruno

That is Bachmann's chairs behind this questioner.

----------


## pauliticalfan

"Mr. Cain, when you are president..."

Um, what?

----------


## bunklocoempire

Doesn't Cain have people for that?...

----------


## bluesc

Wow, Cain flip flopping on stage.

----------


## eleganz

there you go, cain would sign a federal mandate to ban abortion.

remember what he said before...that it is NOT the governments role to decide, although he was pro-life.

----------


## Ranger29860

Personhood laws are dangerouse

----------


## bluesc

Lol, why does Newt try to be the knowledgeable historian? Just look at his history.

----------


## AlexG

Can Newt give an answer without referencing a book, a person, or a quote?

----------


## jware

> Personhood laws are dangerouse


Yes! We just dodged that bullet in Mississippi...

----------


## tremendoustie

Paul should ask santorum: Gluttony is immoral. Should we have the federal government police how much we eat? Gossip is immoral. Should we have the government police facebook, and arrest people who gossip? To say that every action which is immoral should be illegal is absurd and absolutely tyrannical. Force/violence is not an moral or effective means to try to achieve a moral society.

----------


## bunklocoempire

School 'em Ron!!

----------


## parocks

> I know. It would have been the perfect opportunity for Ron to school Santorum  Though, given the topic and the audience, it is probably better for him not to say anything too crazy. Plus, its Santorum.


"school" ?  There is a real difference of opinion.  It's not that Santorum loses to Paul on this.  Santorum makes the traditional socon case pretty well.

----------


## jsingh1022

Ron Paul is just crushing it right now

----------


## trey4sports

very incoherent answer on abortion.

----------


## robmpreston

> Ron Paul is just crushing it right now


That answer didn't "crush it" for this crowd. Went right over their heads. Plus he rambled a bit.

----------


## Ronulus

Anyone got their pandering nets out? They are throwing it out like crazy.

----------


## Kords21

Ron Paul killed that question and backed it up with actions that he has taken to end this debate on abortion.

----------


## hazek

> Ron Paul is just crushing it right now


Is he really are you just being a cheerleader? Cause I had to stop watching when he got to speak the second time, couldn't bare to listen to his rambling about why liberty is important and the 1st A.

----------


## NeoconTea

Drink for Obamacare

----------


## pauliticalfan

Bachmann just saved Dr. Paul on that answer.

"I would support Dr. Paul's legislation there..."

----------


## parocks

Ron Paul nailed that abortion question.  He asked a good question.  He wanted it passed when we had all branches.  Why didn't it pass?

----------


## Kords21

How do you feel about Israel using US tax money for state sponsored abortion bachman?

----------


## IndianaPolitico

"We have taxpayer funded abortions because of Obamacare"-Bachmann

Um, sorry to break it to you but we have had that BEFORE ObamaCare...

----------


## eleganz

This is what happens when Ron receives equal speak time in a forum.


People like what he says and he's been applauded everytime he spoke.

----------


## walt

oh no this guy has another rambling question...

LOL bachman supposrting whatever ron said (and seems to have no idea what he is speaking of)

----------


## axlr

I think the "uh's" hurt Ron just a tad.

----------


## jsingh1022

> Is he really are you just being a cheerleader? Cause I had to stop watching when he got to speak the second time, couldn't bare to listen to his rambling about why liberty is important and the 1st A.


Both.

----------


## shadowhooch

Wow, I think Ron just opened the Right to Lifers eyes with his relevation that his legislations that he proposed 10 years ago could have saved millions of lives.
"I don't know why the Right to Lifers haven't been on board with this".  He called them out.  Wow!

Good stuff.

----------


## trey4sports

> This is what happens when Ron receives equal speak time in a forum.
> 
> 
> People like what he says and he's been applauded everytime he spoke.



yeah but he also has a sizable portion of the crowd. I would imagine.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Anyone got their pandering nets out? They are throwing it out like crazy.


its why i stopped watching. Lots of BS. Time for the stage crew to hose things out.

----------


## Ranger29860

Dramatic consequences?

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

Has anyone been utubing this?

----------


## HeyArchie

Why do the candidates look better/younger than usual?

----------


## jumpyg1258

Ugh all this pro-life talk and gay bashing is really getting on my nerves.  I'm tempted to turn this debate off.  I can see why Romney didn't attend this.

----------


## brendan.orourke

Newt said HISTORY.....DRINK!!

----------


## jware

I'm tired of Gingrich's history lessons

----------


## sailingaway

> Santorum and Ron do have a difference of opinion.  And Santorum is a true socon.   Not a tea party guy.
> 
> Cain - Gingrich = Perfect


Cain is ignorant.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

most of the audience is Xian though. gotta cater to them

----------


## jonhowe

Luntz is kinda funny tonight...

----------


## sailingaway

I think Bachmann is running for Ron's VP.

----------


## tfurrh

Part time Judiciaries, Senators, and Representatives?
Rick Perry wants a part time Constitution.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Bachmann shouts out Paul again. Endorsement when she drops out?

----------


## jonhowe

Also, has every candidate now "agreed' with Ron at 1 debate or another?  I just heard Bachmann do it...

----------


## SlowSki

I can't believe all these Dr. Paul references I'm hearing.

----------


## BattleFlag1776

> I think Bachmann is running for Ron's VP.


I agree.

----------


## cornell

Bachmann agreeing with Dr. Paul again. I'm starting to think she is having an ulterior motive here in constantly referring to him as some sort of a quasi-authority figure...

----------


## Corey

more like she's just trying to steal his voters, not bloody likely

----------


## trey4sports

"I agree with Dr Paul..."

Damn, don't think i've ever heard any group ride ron's coattails like this group.

----------


## BrianH

What are the odds Frank will get to the Federal Reserve issue?

----------


## wstrucke

So Newt's pretty full of himself, huh

----------


## sailingaway

> Part time Judiciaries, Senators, and Representatives?
> Rick Perry wants a part time Constitution.


We have full time judges because the caseload went up with the population.  that doesn't belong with the others

----------


## Ronulus

gasoline 1.79 a gallon when obama took office? Is she full of $#@!? 

2005-2007 gas prices went up over 2.00 a gallon.

----------


## Kords21

Does Newt have a Lincoln fetish?

----------


## NeoconTea

Ugh I just wish Newt would have his mouth permanently shut.

----------


## pauliticalfan

"I published a paper, the boldest since Lincoln..." -Newt Gingrich

This guy's ego is ENORMOUS.

----------


## Fermli

> What are the odds Frank will get to the Federal Reserve issue?


absolutely no chance

----------


## 69360

They are all going to line up behind Ron it seems when they are gone and it's Ron v. Romney. That's the vibe I get.

----------


## Javu

> I think Bachmann is running for Ron's VP.


I think a Paul/Bachmann ticket would serve us well.

----------


## Johncjackson

> most of the audience is Xian though. gotta cater to them


Well, they are specific strain of Christianity that is entirely unlike most of the Christians I know.

----------


## Ranger29860

omg did santorum just say that?

----------


## bunklocoempire

Perry just had a third piece of pie and unbuttoned his pants...

----------


## Kords21

Bachman would be a good insurance policy to taking out Ron, who wants a "President Bachman"? With that being said, I don't see a Paul/Bachman ticket ever happening.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

> Well, they are specific strain of Christianity that is entirely unlike most of the Christians I know.


oh. is this like a hardcore old fashioned bible belt type audience?

----------


## tfurrh

> We have full time judges because the caseload went up with the population.  that doesn't belong with the others


Life appointments to the Supreme Court _is_ constitutional. It was one of Jefferson's biggest concerns.

----------


## Javu

Sanatorum has just proven how insane he is. Abolish the courts...yeh, ok.

----------


## sailingaway

He's going to ask for confession?  Newt to come clean, be reborn and never look to his record again? Good luck with that.

----------


## Ranger29860

If Paul tells his abortion story it could be huge!

----------


## SlowSki

> I think a Paul/Bachmann ticket would serve us well.


I disagree.  A good portion of conservatives don't like her.  Plus I think it would hurt Ron when running against Obama.

----------


## Bruno

Oooh, will Gingrich ask for forgiveness for cheating on his wife?

----------


## brendan.orourke

Paul made a bee-line to the mod haah

----------


## eleganz

is that ron talking to luntz?

----------


## pacelli

Those of you that are having difficulty following along.. try the radio link.

Open up Itunes.    Under "LIBRARY" double click on "Radio".    Then Double Click on "Religious".  Then look in the window and double click on "Bott Radio Network".

You'll have an audio feed, live.  

If this helps, please +rep this post.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Is that Ron talking to Luntz?

----------


## Bruno

Paul talking one on one with Luntz! 

This man builds coalitions!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

FRANK and RON jawing it up during the 5 minute break  OPEN MIC???

----------


## badger4RP

what does luntz have to say to paul???

----------


## IndianaPolitico

I wonder what Paul is saying to Luntz?

----------


## Ronulus

What was ron just drilling Luntz about?

----------


## BUSHLIED

Ron is arguing with luntz right now...

----------


## bunklocoempire

Seabiscuit was talking to F...  mmmm...??

----------


## sailingaway

> I think a Paul/Bachmann ticket would serve us well.


the benefit is we could completely drive neocons out of power  - they'd have no foot soldiers at all.

Don't think we're at the VP picking stage, though.

----------


## Kords21

I've tuned in for the last half hour or so and only heard him twice and way too much from Santorum/Newt/Cain

----------


## McChronagle

turn it on to see ron talking over something with frank. good sign but he looks like hes ignoring ron whatever he is saying.

----------


## beardedlinen

Hmmm.  Whaddya think Paul was talking to Luntz about?  He rushed right over to him when they all got up for the break.

----------


## Eric21ND

> I think a Paul/Bachmann ticket would serve us well.


Not with independents, we get high marks, she get very low marks.

----------


## Johncjackson

> We have full time judges because the caseload went up with the population.  that doesn't belong with the others


So, having laws that are around 99% unnecessary plays no role in that?

----------


## 69360

Wonder what he said to Luntz? I can lip read but they were turned away

----------


## Canderson

So I missed the beggining. What happened with the OWS guy

----------


## Ranger29860

> Not with independents, we get high marks, she get very low marks.


Not to mention i don't want Bachman anywere near a position that could send her to the presidency

----------


## eduardo89

This doesn't make any sense to me. Thanksgiving is the second Monday of October. Why are they doing this in mid-November???

----------


## akalucas

Ron and Luntz are best friends now....witness the power of Ron Paul

----------


## TXcarlosTX

Ron was probably telling him he is doing a fair job.

Oh NOOOOOOO!!!

Thank You Frank??

----------


## Cap

Ron didn't look to happy with Frank.

----------


## sailingaway

> If Paul tells his abortion story it could be huge!


Problem is they've heard it.  And the last time he was at one of these it was mentioned that 'he told the same story'.  Mind you everyone else's personal bits hadn't changed either....

----------


## coastie

Ron seemed pretty perturbed there talking to FU Frank, wonder why?

----------


## Ronulus

Probably telling luntz that if he doesn't give him fair time he will haunt his prostate.

----------


## walt

It likely had to do with that pre-event stunt - still to be determined what it is....

----------


## pauliticalfan

> Probably telling luntz that if he doesn't give him fair time he will haunt his prostate.


LMAO

----------


## Kords21

> Ron didn't look to happy with Frank.


Outside of Hannity who does ever look happy with Frank?

----------


## bunklocoempire

Something about free bananas..

----------


## Ronulus

> This doesn't make any sense to me. Thanksgiving is the second Monday of October. Why are they doing this in mid-November???


It is october 24th in the US.

----------


## realtonygoodwin

> This doesn't make any sense to me. Thanksgiving is the second Monday of October. Why are they doing this in mid-November???


Not in the US.

----------


## RPSupporter305

Guys, I got a phone call and missed the second half of the debate. What are the highlights? Why is Ron mad at Luntz?

----------


## Bruno

> This doesn't make any sense to me. Thanksgiving is the second Monday of October. Why are they doing this in mid-November???


Thanksgiving is next Thursday

----------


## HeyArchie

> This doesn't make any sense to me. Thanksgiving is the second Monday of October. Why are they doing this in mid-November???


wutlol

----------


## IndianaPolitico

> Probably telling luntz that if he doesn't give him fair time he will haunt his prostate.


Or maybe give him some free bananas...

----------


## Bruno

> It is october 24th in the US.


November rather.

----------


## sailingaway

> So I missed the beggining. What happened with the OWS guy


I think it more likely it was a Frank Luntz guy. The whole thing was strangely scripted.  I'm going to look for the name of that person in write ups and see what I can find out about him.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

what happened in the beginning when someone mentioned OWS and the Fed? I missed that part

----------


## BUSHLIED

its clear that luntx said something in response that Paul didn't like and Paul said something back to luntz

----------


## bunklocoempire

I hear Bachman was born in Iowa...

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

> I think a Paul/Bachmann ticket would serve us well.


No, I don't think so.

She brings in social conservatives but isn't popular among the fiscal conservatives(even if she is one). DeMint on the other hand is popular among both.

Also, she would hurt Ron in the general election. Remember, Ron will be 77 and Bachmann as VP would hurt Ron like Palin hurt McCain with independents.

I still say DeMint. He wouldn't scare off independents as much.

----------


## Ranger29860

Santorum- "I once loved a man" :P

----------


## trey4sports

> Santorum- "I once loved a man" :P


bwahhahahaha thatd be funny dude

----------


## Corto_Maltese

So fake pause

----------


## trey4sports

i wonder what the deal with Ron and Frank is?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

More pandering... CAIN play the emotional card. I don't trust this guy for a second.

----------


## Ronulus

Instant jump in polls for cain.

----------


## Ranger29860

Cain is absolutely full of $#@! !

----------


## wstrucke

Tears?  Milking it.

----------


## r3volution

oh boy , fake cain tears .

----------


## 69360

I will never forget.... 

Uh Uh Uh

----------


## GaryJohnson2016

I had no idea Cain had cancer and now he's crying. He is so brave, I might actually vote for him if Paul isn't doing well when the time comes to vote....

----------


## Bruno

Tears for votes.

----------


## HeyArchie

This is pretty faith-oriented then?  No wonder Romney didn't come.

----------


## AlexG

lol going from Cain's fake sob story to Rick's country happy-go-lucky accent

----------


## tfurrh

Perry looks like a douche following that Cain spill.

----------


## parocks

> Not with independents, we get high marks, she get very low marks.


we get low marks with some segments of the Republican base.  We're not the only ones who can stay home.

Last time around it wasnt just us who weren't having McCain, and Palin kept it from being a landslide.

----------


## Ranger29860

> Tears for votes.


At least we now know he is desperate.

----------


## trey4sports

god perry is an idiot.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Perry got raped by a scoutmaster

----------


## tfurrh

Perry = Canteen Boy (snl)

----------


## ItztehBean

Koch-Cain: Will cry for votes.
Perry: Need to reboot. Kernel Panic.

----------


## bunklocoempire

Scout masters take bribes?

----------


## Bruno

Perry loves his folksy good ole days yarns of the farm and simpler times.

----------


## Johncjackson

> This is pretty faith-oriented then?  No wonder Romney didn't come.


Yeah, he's an atheist.

----------


## pauliticalfan

"Mom sewed my underwear." -Rick Perry

----------


## Ranger29860

OMG I CAN"T TAKE THIS ANYMORE...../Gouges Ear Drums

----------


## trey4sports

> I had no idea Cain had cancer and now he's crying. He is so brave, I might actually vote for him if Paul isn't doing well when the time comes to vote....



lol

----------


## axlr

> This is pretty faith-oriented then?  No wonder Romney didn't come.


No wonder Huntsman didn't come either! If those people found out that he believed in evolution...
Oh lord.

----------


## Bruno

"mom sewed my underwear"?  Lolwut?

----------


## bunklocoempire

...and on that faith walk I got the idea to fleece sheeple

----------


## Kords21

What is Perry talking about?

----------


## AlexG

Is Perry going to cry too?

----------


## trey4sports

Perrry " i was too busy for god" lol he is such a bad storyteller.

----------


## SamuraisWisdom

Anybody dissing Cain after that last part just stop it.  That was legitimate, you could see his eyes turning red.  Props to him for being able to get through that story.

----------


## tfurrh

This is going to take up the rest of the time.

----------


## ItztehBean

Needs to reboot. He's running low on his memory.

----------


## bunklocoempire

..then I popped a Merck product

----------


## Corto_Maltese

PLS stop the fake tears!!! If Ron should attempt it I would cry. But i know he wont

----------


## pauliticalfan

Perry giving us his biography...

----------


## Bruno

Gosh people eat up BS so easily.

----------


## SlowSki

if you don't go to church, you are probably miserable.

----------


## Johncjackson

> What is Perry talking about?


Based on comments here, a scoutmaster did something to him and his mom had to sew his underwear back together.

----------


## Ranger29860

> Anybody dissing Cain after that last part just stop it.  That was legitimate, you could see his eyes turning red.  Props to him for being able to get through that story.


No that was pandering at its highest level.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

SHUT UP PERRY, YOU'RE TAKING TOO MUCH TIME

----------


## Xelaetaks

This religious pandering is so $#@!ing lame

----------


## RDM

> "Mom sewed my underwear." -Rick Perry


"When those women came forward...I $#@! in my underwear." - Herman Cain

----------


## Johncjackson

> Anybody dissing Cain after that last part just stop it.  That was legitimate, you could see his eyes turning red.  Props to him for being able to get through that story.


OK. He should be President, then. Got my vote.

----------


## dusman

So, overall how do you guys think Ron Paul did? I caught the first 15 minutes and it seems highly favorable to Paul! I didn't get a chance to catch the remaining time?

----------


## tfurrh

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Ron played it safe. Not going to emotional was good.

----------


## Bruno

Ron was able to bring up so many great points there!

----------


## pauliticalfan

AWESOME!

----------


## Eryxis

Luntz just said, let me administer the poll and I'll give you the results you want.  Paraphrased of course.

----------


## trey4sports

GREAT answer Ron!

----------


## KingNothing

Man, Ron is likable as hell in this discussion.  That was an amazing response.

----------


## FreeTraveler

Luntz just outed himself. "Doctors are more popular than politicians because I wasn't hired by the politicians to do the poll." lol

----------


## Eric21ND

> we get low marks with some segments of the Republican base.  We're not the only ones who can stay home.
> 
> Last time around it wasnt just us who weren't having McCain, and Palin kept it from being a landslide.


They will fall in line, they're sheep.  They'll vote for anyone with an (R) next to their name just like did with Rand.

----------


## Kords21

Loved the whole while others were fishing/hunting I was reading books on economics angle he took.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> So, overall how do you guys think Ron Paul did? I caught the first 15 minutes and it seems highly favorable to Paul! I didn't get a chance to catch the remaining time?


The parts I've seen with Paul are really good.  He's nailing it.

Bunkloco (uppity Lutheran)

----------


## HeyArchie

Nicely done, Paul.  I get such a real feeling from him.

Actually, only him and Santorum are the ones that I think aren't constantly bullshitting me.  Even if I do disagree with most of what Frothy says, I think he really believes that stuff.

----------


## AlexG

I have no idea how Ron was able to tie in so many points in that answer, great answer

----------


## tfurrh

Ron as he looked at Rick Perry, "I wasn't interested in hunting and fishing, I was interested in economics."

----------


## KingNothing

> So, overall how do you guys think Ron Paul did? I caught the first 15 minutes and it seems highly favorable to Paul! I didn't get a chance to catch the remaining time?


He's doing better than he ever has in a debate.  This is amazing.

----------


## trey4sports

> So, overall how do you guys think Ron Paul did? I caught the first 15 minutes and it seems highly favorable to Paul! I didn't get a chance to catch the remaining time?


well i dont know how much is left but so far this has been a GREAT time for ron. he was a bit incoherent at times but nothing that will hurt him. seemed very authentic at times too. I think it will really help with this demographic. May not be a slam dunk but at least we havent talked about drugs and Iran.

----------


## sailingaway

> Luntz just said, let me administer the poll and I'll give you the results you want.  Paraphrased of course.


I caught that.

----------


## Ronulus

Ok geez I can't wait to hear how Newt became born again during this presidential election cycle when God told him to stop voting for democrat/liberal principles and stop being a lobbyist for freddie and fannie.

----------


## cornell

23 foster children!

----------


## trey4sports

> Ron as he looked at Rick Perry, "I wasn't interested in hunting and fishing, I was interested in economics."



yeah i laughed a bit on that!~

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Well, at least Bachman is honest about this and not making fake tears.

----------


## trey4sports

> Ok geez I can't wait to hear how Newt became born again during this presidential election cycle when God told him to stop voting for democrat/liberal principles and stop being a lobbyist for freddie and fannie.



lolz yea its comin'

----------


## Corey

> Nicely done, Paul.  I get such a real feeling from him.
> 
> Actually, only him and Santorum are the ones that I think aren't constantly bullshitting me.  Even if I do disagree with most of what Frothy says, I think he really believes that stuff.


I know a lot of others won't agree, but I feel the same way...

----------


## sailingaway

Bachmann is doing well for herself here.

----------


## hazek

Can someone objectively grade Ron without any fan-boyish orgasms? Did he find his groove after the first two horrible rambling answers?

----------


## Bruno

> He's doing better than he ever has in a debate.  This is amazing.


This. And i hate to say it, but it is to owe to the forum and Frank Luntz moderating it.

----------


## Ranger29860

This suprisingly has been the fairest debate i have ever seen... Lets see what happens afterwords though

----------


## bunklocoempire

My Minnesotan sister doesn't like Franken *or* Bachman..

----------


## jsingh1022

> He's doing better than he ever has in a debate.  This is amazing.


He better be polling 1st in Iowa after this one.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Bachmann Proud to take in 23 kids while I sent 50 Americans to prison for the IRS...  Love this FIG Leaf in one hand and a dagger in the other crusader.

I tought this was about  your most influencing moments... Santorum playing the partial abortion trip

----------


## BrianH

Best speech yet by Bachman

----------


## tfurrh

Last & least, Newt Gingrich.

----------


## trey4sports

> They will fall in line, they're sheep.  They'll vote for anyone with an (R) next to their name just like did with Rand.



i think that is completely untrue. 

there is a lot to be made about the GOP) needing our 20, but we also need their 80. dontcha forget it.

----------


## FreeTraveler

Yeah, Santorum believes every word he says. That's why he scares the krap out of me.

----------


## Bruno

> Can someone objectively grade Ron without any fan-boyish orgasms? Did he find his groove after the first two horrible rambling answers?


How about without your overzealous criticism?

----------


## brandon

Oh god Santorum is turning on the tears now too

----------


## Kords21

I believe Santorum's tears over Cain's tears.

----------


## Bruno

Save the weirdness of the ending,, Santorum.

----------


## ONUV

didn't watch the debate. totally forgot about it. luntz's moderated debate won't be seen by that mean people. ha.

----------


## trey4sports

did he just make a funny? " yes we have the internet" bad taste yo

----------


## IndianaPolitico

I am guessing this is the most time Ron has ever gotten in a 2012 Presidential Forum or debate. I kind of hate to say this, but thank you Frank Luntz...

----------


## pauliticalfan

Santorum villifying a doctor.... hmm.....

----------


## Ranger29860

> I am guessing this is the most time Ron has ever gotten in a 2012 Presidential Forum or debate. I kind of hate to say this, but thank you Frank Luntz...


LOL hold off on saying it for sure until till we see the post game show.

----------


## jsingh1022

This debate is nice to see the human side of all these candidates.

----------


## KingNothing

Santorum, giving an answer that makes him... human, and likable.  Wow.

----------


## The Magic Hoof

He should tell everyone there to google Santorum.

----------


## sailingaway

> Yeah, Santorum believes every word he says. That's why he scares the krap out of me.


but he still plays it to emotion which turns me off, he dramatizes it every time he tells it. I've heard him tell it 3 times.

----------


## Inkblots

> Santorum, giving an answer that makes him... human, and likable.  Wow.


Yes.

----------


## Original_Intent

> I know a lot of others won't agree, but I feel the same way...


I also agree. Santorum is a sanctimonious prick, but he IS a true believer in what he says. He's the only one in the race other than Ron that I believe that about.

----------


## sailingaway

> LOL hold off on saying it for sure until till we see the post game show.


post game will be terrible. Luntz just told us he can get a crowd to say whatever he wants.

----------


## jumpyg1258

Gawd these sob stories are all pandering for votes, disgusting.

----------


## tfurrh

I would have punched that doctor that wouldn't give my dying daughter oxygen. Santorum's story is actually heartbreaking, I hope he's not using it for political purposes.

----------


## walt

Can someone please explain to me how Herman Cain had stage IV cancer and has been running for President for months and the issue of recurrence and remission has never been discussed in detail?

----------


## Publicani

What's the punch line, Santorum?

----------


## Tod

Cain isn't even paying attention to Santorum's story....

----------


## Bruno

Santorum monopolizing the speech with one he has probably given many times. Touching, but he know what he is doing. - winning votes

----------


## sailingaway

He said that exact line but without breaking down at the last Values forum.  It does make the choking up seem fake. 

Yech.  Kudos to Ron for not doing this.

----------


## Corey

I think Beck ruined the idea of crying as a political tool, for most people.  Now I have a hard time believing it anytime anyone cries in politics.

----------


## SchleckBros

wow I'm even tearing up.

----------


## Koz

> I know a lot of others won't agree, but I feel the same way...


I totally agree, as much as I think Santorum is a fool, he is the only one up there other than RP that is not bulshitting everyone. Kinda creepy really.

----------


## Bruno

> Can someone please explain to me how Herman Cain had stage IV cancer and has been running for President for months and the issue of recurrence and remission has never been discussed in detail?


That would probably be racist.

----------


## Ranger29860

> I would have punched that doctor that wouldn't give my dying daughter oxygen. Santorum's story is actually heartbreaking, I hope he's not using it for political purposes.


He's up on stage in a political forum. So yes it is for political purposes. Thats the same reason that no matter how sincer Cain was it was disgusting. Using a personal tradgedy like that to pander for votes is SICK.

----------


## trey4sports

good story though.

----------


## Fermli

take more time Santorum

----------


## jsingh1022

> What's the punch line, Santorum?


"Dad, you didn't do anything."

----------


## pauliticalfan

Obamacare...

----------


## Publicani

It was about Obamacare?

----------


## Eryxis

> I would have punched that doctor that wouldn't give my dying daughter oxygen. Santorum's story is actually heartbreaking, I hope he's not using it for political purposes.


He's telling it during a debate, of course he's using it for political purposes.  However, that doesn't make it any less sad.  He just ran the clock out on the debate though...

----------


## Bobcat

I cannot support Ron Paul, due to the fact he did not include the start of phasing out the income tax in his economic plan. However, anyone who would support ANY of these other candidates is out of their mind. They are all neocon scum -- including Bachmann. None of them except Ron Paul want to end the FED, dramatically reduce the government, end the War on Drugs, bring the troops home, abolish the Patriot Act, etc. Also, Ron Paul is the only one of them that boldly opposed all the bailouts and TARP. 

If you support small government, you cannot support any of the neocon candidates. Also, you cannot say that you would want any of these candidates as a VP.

----------


## ItztehBean

What is going on here? Has this turned into tragic story contest?
It seems that Dr. Paul is the only one focusing away from dirty trick performed by these guys.

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

> Can someone please explain to me how Herman Cain had stage IV cancer and has been running for President for months and the issue of recurrence and remission has never been discussed in detail?


 Maybe he is cured of it.

----------


## bunklocoempire

Obamacare Rick?  I'd only tell that story publicly to witness for Christ.   Pretty cheap IMO.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Gotta say i liked that story. Assuming everything is correct that was really honest about his real emotions and heartcapturing.

----------


## axlr

Santorum is an arrogant social conservative and I would never vote for him.

BUT, his story was real, and his story was touching and you can really see how his past has shaped his political views.

----------


## brandon

Now Newt is going to cry.  Unbelievable. all these politicians should win academy awards.

----------


## IndianaPolitico

> I cannot support Ron Paul, due to the fact he did not include the start of phasing out the income tax in his economic plan.


Then you are on the wrong forum...

----------


## HeyArchie

> I cannot support Ron Paul, due to the fact he did not include the start of phasing out the income tax in his economic plan. However, anyone who would support ANY of these other candidates is out of their mind. They are all neocon scum -- including Bachmann. None of them except Ron Paul want to end the FED, dramatically reduce the government, end the War on Drugs, bring the troops home, abolish the Patriot Act, etc. Also, Ron Paul is the only one of them that boldly opposed all the bailouts and TARP. 
> 
> If you support small government, you cannot support any of the neocon candidates. Also, you cannot say that you would want any of these candidates as a VP.


You are preaching to the choir.

----------


## Diurdi

He's right on the Obamacare and special needs though.

----------


## wstrucke

it kinda feels like we're witnessing all of the candidates bonding at a retreat.  weird.  they'll probably have to have 2012 reunions down the road to reminisce.

----------


## tfurrh

Newt....don't even try to tear up. just don't.

----------


## ItztehBean

So Ron Paul is "unelectable" because he does not make a "crying moment" tonight?

----------


## Bobcat

Ron Paul has a thousand baby stories he could tell, but he does not. He does not because he does not want to convince people with emotion. He wants to convince them with logic and common sense.

----------


## GaryJohnson2016

Now Gingrich the fagget starts crying...

----------


## sailingaway

> I cannot support Ron Paul, due to the fact he did not include the start of phasing out the income tax in his economic plan. However, anyone who would support ANY of these other candidates is out of their mind. They are all neocon scum -- including Bachmann. None of them except Ron Paul want to end the FED, dramatically reduce the government, end the War on Drugs, bring the troops home, abolish the Patriot Act, etc. Also, Ron Paul is the only one of them that boldly opposed all the bailouts and TARP. 
> 
> If you support small government, you cannot support any of the neocon candidates. Also, you cannot say that you would want any of these candidates as a VP.


He cut out taxes on savings accounts.  You could call that a start.  Whatever. If you don't vote for Ron it's your own fault if we get one of the others.

----------


## Publicani

$#@!, now Newt is crying

----------


## Plague-of-Locutus

Good job Newt.  Talking about friends and not yourself.

----------


## Eryxis

I see Newt dodging the main question here...

----------


## Ranger29860

THIS WHOLE SEGMENT IS SICK AND DEMENTED. How dare they do this in a church.

----------


## SlowSki

> Ron Paul has a thousand baby stories he could tell, but he does not. He does not because he does not want to convince people with emotion. He wants to convince them with logic and common sense.


This

----------


## AlexG

Now Frank has a sob story?

----------


## wstrucke

> I cannot support Ron Paul, due to the fact he did not include the start of phasing out the income tax in his economic plan. However, anyone who would support ANY of these other candidates is out of their mind. They are all neocon scum -- including Bachmann. None of them except Ron Paul want to end the FED, dramatically reduce the government, end the War on Drugs, bring the troops home, abolish the Patriot Act, etc. Also, Ron Paul is the only one of them that boldly opposed all the bailouts and TARP. 
> 
> If you support small government, you cannot support any of the neocon candidates. Also, you cannot say that you would want any of these candidates as a VP.


Ron wants to get rid of the income tax and the IRS, but he's trying to run "middle of the road" so to speak, for him at least.  If his plan was to go directly from what we have now to what we wants he wouldn't stand a chance.  He's doing what he can do to realistically put us on the right path.

----------


## Bobcat

> So Ron Paul is "unelectable" because he does not make a "crying moment" tonight?


He is unelectable because he has principles, and to be a neocon candidate you cannot have principles. You have to be willing to lie, and manipulate others.

----------


## PreDeadMan

i swear i think Kleenex is sponsoring tonight's debate roflmao

----------


## bunklocoempire

FU Frank!

----------


## bluesc

> *I cannot support Ron Paul, due to the fact he did not include the start of phasing out the income tax in his economic plan.*


wat

You mean the plan that will save the country, and by extension, the world? Yeah, $#@! that guy.

----------


## Bruno

"might get me fired" = FOX likes generated fireworks

----------


## Kords21

What is this? The Newt power hour?

----------


## pauliticalfan

Newt shouts out Dr. Paul...

----------


## bunklocoempire

> THIS WHOLE SEGMENT IS SICK AND DEMENTED. How dare they do this in a church.


God is everywhere.  Calling attention to the venue is the problem I have with it.

----------


## jumpyg1258

Gawd I hate Frank Luntz.

----------


## Publicani

> i swear i think Kleenex is sponsoring tonight's debate roflmao


best comment so far!

----------


## sailingaway

Oh please Luntz, this emoting really doesn't do well.

He's making them say failures or he'll bring them up? He's giving Gingrich a 'now I'm reborn again' bit and then they'll push him, and after all he just said they'd now be churlish to bring up bad stuff....

----------


## tfurrh

I hope Rick Santorum tells his 'smoking pot in college' story.

----------


## ItztehBean

Neuter Gingrich is un-American.

----------


## AJ187

Chat keeps clearing everytime I comment.  Annoying!

----------


## Jackie Treehorn

I just turned it on only to see Santorum in tears...and proceeding to speak for several minutes while everyone was completely silent. Needless to say, I have never been more confused in my life.

----------


## Bruno

Newt: "Things became complicated" = "I was cheated on my invalid wife."

----------


## Ranger29860

man god forbid we talk about issues

----------


## Eric21ND

> i think that is completely untrue. 
> 
> there is a lot to be made about the GOP) needing our 20, but we also need their 80. dontcha forget it.


I've seen the polling, we get 70+ percent of republicans saying they would vote for Ron if he's the nominee.  With our strong polling for independents we don't even have to win over all the rest of the republicans to win the general election.  Those republicans when faced against Obama will fall in line a good portion of them, that coupled with Ron picking a sound VP choice (no not a tv personality or RPF fanboy choice) will bring more republicans on board and more independents if he chooses Fortuno.  Independents will decide this election just like they have the past several elections.

----------


## wstrucke

Smart.  Newt is talking about his failures and corruption without actually mentioning them.

----------


## Bobcat

> Ron wants to get rid of the income tax and the IRS, but he's trying to run "middle of the road" so to speak, for him at least.  If his plan was to go directly from what we have now to what we wants he wouldn't stand a chance.  He's doing what he can do to realistically put us on the right path.


Well, you are not understanding what I said.

I am not saying that Ron Paul had to get rid of the income tax in his plan. But if he can cut the corporate tax, the death tax, and several other taxes, he could have at least started the process of eliminating the income tax. Even if he only wanted to cut the top income tax rate by 5%, he could have STARTED the process. Instead, he cut almost everything else. To me, this is unacceptable. The income tax is the most horrible and unconstitutional tax in the nation, and he should have started the process of eliminating it.

I am so sick of these other candidates. They are absolute neocon scum. But I cannot bring myself to support Ron Paul. I wish I could, because he is the best candidate. These others are sick freaks.

----------


## Ranger29860

> I just turned it on only to see Santorum in tears...and proceeding to speak for several minutes while everyone was completely silent. Needless to say, I have never been more confused in my life.


He was coming out of the closet :P

----------


## bluesc

> He is unelectable because he has principles, and to be a neocon candidate you cannot have principles. You have to be willing to lie, and manipulate others.


Can we ban this $#@!head that calls Ron "unelectable" while saying he won't support him? That is the reason Ron isn't leading the polls.

----------


## Tod

Noot sounds so phoney

----------


## walt

Well Perry will mention his debate gaffee again...

----------


## tfurrh

That's the best Newt could come up with? I bet everyone at the table is laughing inside.

----------


## ItztehBean

He's "classy" in speech on rhetorics.
He's classless as a human being.

----------


## Bobcat

> Smart.  Newt is talking about his failures and corruption without actually mentioning them.


Didn't he admit to cheating on his wife while she was on the deathbed?

----------


## HeyArchie

> Well, you are not understanding what I said.
> 
> I am not saying that Ron Paul had to get rid of the income tax in his plan. But if he can cut the corporate tax, the death tax, and several other taxes, he could have at least started the process of eliminating the income tax. Even if he only wanted to cut the top income tax rate by 5%, he could have STARTED the process. Instead, he cut almost everything else. To me, this is unacceptable. The income tax is the most horrible and unconstitutional tax in the nation, and he should have started the process of eliminating it.
> 
> I am so sick of these other candidates. They are absolute neocon scum. But I cannot bring myself to support Ron Paul. I wish I could, because he is the best candidate. These others are sick freaks.


Are you the troll that was all over the Facebook page whining about this right after the plan came out?

----------


## Kords21

Not too sure what Newt just said, sounded like rambling

----------


## sailingaway

> Well, you are not understanding what I said.
> 
> I am not saying that Ron Paul had to get rid of the income tax in his plan. But if he can cut the corporate tax, the death tax, and several other taxes, he could have at least started the process of eliminating the income tax. Even if he only wanted to cut the top income tax rate by 5%, he could have STARTED the process. Instead, he cut almost everything else. To me, this is unacceptable. The income tax is the most horrible and unconstitutional tax in the nation, and he should have started the process of eliminating it.
> 
> I am so sick of these other candidates. They are absolute neocon scum. But I cannot bring myself to support Ron Paul. I wish I could, because he is the best candidate. These others are sick freaks.


Then you should vote against them, instead of voting for him.  It is the same thing.

----------


## RPSupporter305

Whats up with all these attacks on atheists?

----------


## chris41336

Ron should start crying and when they ask him why he shuold just say "because our country is F*****d".

----------


## bluesc

> Whats up with all these attacks on atheists?


Pandering.

----------


## Jackie Treehorn

Have the video shots of RP been from the side and behind him all night? Man, those are awful camera angles.

----------


## eleganz

I love these RP stories!

----------


## FreeTraveler

Ron's talking truth to power here.

----------


## JK/SEA

time for tebow.

----------


## jsingh1022

So Ron Paul got hurt playing football when he was kid?

----------


## Bobcat

> Smart.  Newt is talking about his failures and corruption without actually mentioning them.


Didn't he admit to cheating on his wife while she was on the deathbed?

----------


## tfurrh

Wow, the only answer Ron can't answer is, 'where have you failed.'

that guy's got my vote.

----------


## FreeTraveler

"I haven't screwed up my life by making stupid choices. Sorry about the rest of you."

----------


## sailingaway

Love Ron.  Something like .02 off of the world 220 record, wasn't he?

----------


## dante

> Well, you are not understanding what I said.
> 
> I am not saying that Ron Paul had to get rid of the income tax in his plan. But if he can cut the corporate tax, the death tax, and several other taxes, he could have at least started the process of eliminating the income tax. Even if he only wanted to cut the top income tax rate by 5%, he could have STARTED the process. Instead, he cut almost everything else. To me, this is unacceptable. The income tax is the most horrible and unconstitutional tax in the nation, and he should have started the process of eliminating it.
> 
> I am so sick of these other candidates. They are absolute neocon scum. But I cannot bring myself to support Ron Paul. I wish I could, because he is the best candidate. These others are sick freaks.


He's got to save something for his 2nd term.  You can't possibly do this overnight.  Let him get elected, cut a ton of government, give the economy a year to purge the waste and recover.  Then he can start cutting taxes (and spending) even more.

----------


## Kords21

Ron Paul always wins

----------


## Bruno

Ron has been an honest, hardworking, fortunate person.  Much to be proud of.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Hm, ron doesnt really have a story to tell. messes together a whole lot. Tries to put in family when it doesnt fit in the answer.

----------


## Eric21ND

> Yeah, Santorum believes every word he says. That's why he scares the krap out of me.


Theocrats scare me as well.

----------


## RDM

> Noot sounds so phoney


You can't quote Lincoln or Jefferson when you talk about your real life experiences.

----------


## Ranger29860

o my god Cain is a woman i see it now!

----------


## Jackie Treehorn

I'm confused by Ron's answer.

----------


## JohnGalt23g

Well, I've taken as much of this bull$#@! as I can take, and I can take no more.  Let me know if Jesus shows up.

If I hadn't been wasted, the last hour and half would have been.

----------


## StilesBC

Ron should have cited his Libertarian run as his failure.

edit: not that I think he shouldn't have.  Just that it would go over well with the audience...

----------


## badger4RP

Newt: I cheated on my wives and ruined lives.

Paul: I had some injuries in high school that stopped me from being a professional athlete.

Lifes good

----------


## S.Shorland

..

----------


## Kords21

Cain is channeling his inner Beck with all the tears

----------


## sailingaway

http://streetsmartdirect.com/ronpaul.html




> Excelling in track and field, he graduated from Dormont High School in 1953 with honors. He had a best mark in the 100-yard dash of 9.7 seconds at a time when the national high school record for that event was 9.4 seconds; He was the 220-yard dash state champion, and was also on the wrestling team, played football and baseball, and was student council president.
> Although he had knee surjery, a major university offered Paul a prestigious full scholarship in track, chancing he could regain his prior speed; he declined, refusing to endorse the risk. Rather, he paid for his first year at Gettysburg College with saved newspaper-delivery, lemonade-sale, and lawn-mowing money; he later received a small academic scholarship. He delivered mail and laundry in Gettysburg; managed the college coffee shop ("The Bullet Hole"); and joined the swim team. By his senior year, he was running track again; he set the third-best marks in college history in the 100-yard dash (9.9 seconds) and 220-yard dash.

----------


## axlr

> Let me know if Jesus shows up.


LMFAO!

----------


## FreeTraveler

> I'm confused by Ron's answer.


Not me. See what I said before. "I never screwed up my life making stupid choices. Sorry about the rest of you."

----------


## pauliticalfan

Rick Perry the Veterinarian

----------


## trey4sports

Perry is a bitch.

----------


## Ranger29860

omg yes nail this !!!

----------


## Ronulus

> I'm confused by Ron's answer.


Seemed like he was trying to say how he had something 'bad' at the time happen to him, which was being injured as a teen. However look at all the things that happened to him even though he didn't get to play sports and take that route in life, instead he got to be in medicine and get the family he has. He also got to serve in congress.

----------


## Bobcat

> Then you should vote against them, instead of voting for him.  It is the same thing.


I won't vote for anyone unless Ron Paul puts the *start* of phasing out the income tax into his economic plan. As soon as he does that, I will consider myself one of his supporters again. I will not support any candidate that cuts almost every single tax, but does nothing to start the process of eliminating the income tax. However, I will continually express just how bad all these other candidates are. I have been going around telling people how bad Bachmann, Cain, Romney, and the rest of them are. I still tell them Ron Paul is the best candidate. I just tell them that Ron Paul let me down big time when he did not add phasing out the income tax to an otherwise GREAT economic plan.

----------


## tfurrh

O crap.

----------


## Kords21

Ron quoting the bible, the crowd will eat this up

----------


## Tod

Yeah!!!!  RP!!!!

----------


## bunklocoempire

Paul just pricked some consciences,  this is an excellent event for Seabiscuit.

----------


## Bruno

Great answer on marriage!

----------


## Tod

THAT was GREAT!

----------


## matt0611

Wow, Ron Paul's answer was really really good.

----------


## FreeTraveler

Dang, I thought he'd stepped on a banana peel there, and he danced right over it to great applause.

----------


## Canderson

holly cow. That was awesome

----------


## ItztehBean

I cry with joy when I hear Ron Paul's speech. Unbelievable.

----------


## jsingh1022

Did Santorum just fart?

----------


## Ronulus

Did someone just fart when frothy started talking?

----------


## ItztehBean

His lube is starting to leak...

----------


## bunklocoempire

Rick:  "Because God needs our help"

----------


## sailingaway

> I won't vote for anyone unless Ron Paul puts the *start* of phasing out the income tax into his economic plan. As soon as he does that, I will consider myself one of his supporters again. I will not support any candidate that cuts almost every single tax, but does nothing to start the process of eliminating the income tax. However, I will continually express just how bad all these other candidates are. I have been going around telling people how bad Bachmann, Cain, Romney, and the rest of them are. I still tell them Ron Paul is the best candidate. I just tell them that Ron Paul let me down big time when he did not add phasing out the income tax to an otherwise GREAT economic plan.


He didn't forclose it. It just isn't in that one document. Whatever. It is your non-vote.  The others would raise tax by eliminating deductions, though.

----------


## jonhowe

> Did Santorum just fart?


I thought that too...

----------


## The Magic Hoof

with that answer we can get these Xians to rethink if government should be involved

----------


## trey4sports

meh, marriage answer was too much rambling IMO

----------


## Bruno

Whatever you are doing to help Ron prep, campaign, keep it up!

----------


## Bobcat

Santorum is a freak. He wants to give the government more and more power. If Karma was real, after he gave the government more power they would then use that power to ban organized religion.

----------


## sailingaway

All this marriage stuff being first etc was aimed at Ron.

----------


## jonhowe

Frothy Lube just said this is TOO IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION!

----------


## MomsBasement

I think it was someone blowing their nose

----------


## sailingaway

> meh, marriage answer was too much rambling IMO


he should have gone with 'king' not more and more regulation.....

----------


## jware

Frank Luntz post-debate will start pumping Santorum

----------


## axlr

> Rick:  "Because God needs our help"


LOL! Oh this is just too good...

----------


## trey4sports

> Frank Luntz post-debate will start pumping Santorum



thats fine let him splinter the non-Paul votes.

----------


## jsingh1022

I hope there is a post-debate online poll so we can give it the Ron Paul treatment

----------


## Ranger29860

What is with all this anti supreme court talk?

----------


## Tod

> Santorum is a freak. He wants to give the government more and more power. If Karma was real, after he gave the government more power they would then use that power to ban organized religion.


He and Bachmann would like a theocracy

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Again, they confirm rons points of view by complaining how the supreme court will get to vote on it.

----------


## Fermli

thankfully, economy trumps social issues in this election.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> All this marriage stuff being first etc was aimed at Ron.


It's all right, there are quite a few folks in this crowd having their 'Ah ha' moment with the truth getting out there.  It's the spin that will be the bummer, but at least the truth got out.

----------


## Eric21ND

> Ron wants to get rid of the income tax and the IRS, but he's trying to run "middle of the road" so to speak, for him at least.  If his plan was to go directly from what we have now to what we wants he wouldn't stand a chance.  He's doing what he can do to realistically put us on the right path.


Don't feed the troll.

----------


## Ranger29860

So all i'm hearing is $#@! checks and balances?

----------


## trey4sports

as long as they are not attacking Ron on Iran and drugs we're all good.

----------


## sailingaway

just because I'm bored....




> In 1951 Ron Paul did not place in the top 5 in the 100y or 220y but placed 2nd in the PIAA WPIAL District 7 Meet @ Canonsburg, PA[ 5/19/1951] 440y in 52.7 and qualified for the State Meet @ Penn State 5/26/1951.At the State Meet he ran 52.0 for 3rd in Heat 3.
> 
> Paul does not appear in the late, George Kiseda's 1951 Final Western PA Honor Roll Performance Marks. for the 100y or 220y. He did run 51.8 [date & site unk.]for 440y and ranked 4th.
> 
> 
> In 1952 Paul finished 3rd in the 100y @ W.P.I.A.L.[Dist. 7] Class A Meet [5/17/1952] @ Mt. Lebanon HS,PA ]. Herb Carper won in 10.2. Paul's time in not listed in official result set. Paul did not qualify for the P.I.A.A. State Meet in the 100y. In 1952 he does not appear in the late, George Kiseda's ["Pittsburgh Sun Telegraph"] 1952 Final Western PA Honor Roll Performance Marks.[1-20] going from 10.0 to 10.4.
> 
> 
> His best mark for the 220 in 1952 was 22.2 date & site unk. He won the W.P.I.A.L. Dist. 7 220y
> ...


http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/disc...+Paul+#p412330

----------


## JohnGalt23g

> Rick:  "Because God needs our help"


You put that in quotes.  Did he really say that "*God* needs our help"?

What?  Is Senator Frothy's God out there on a street corner with a tin cup selling pencils?  My God helps me... when I need it... and I thank Him for it.  Not the other way around.

----------


## sailingaway

Is this 'Mommy'?

----------


## bunklocoempire

> What is with all this anti supreme court talk?


It's the tool always brought up to vote for/support the 'lesser of two evils'.  We can expect more SC talk, and the danger of Obama appointing liberal judge.  Scare tactics.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Newt the Bill Clinton of the Family Forum... ugh these professional swindlers.

----------


## RestoreTheRepublic

Is it me or are Ron's answers not getting as much applause as some of the other candidates? I understand the demographics of the crowd here, I just hope he can still get the vote from these Evangelical Christians in Iowa.

I thought he did really well tonight, I just hope the majority of these born-again Christians will support him in the caucuses.

----------


## Corey

how long is this thing, sheesh

----------


## tfurrh

17,672 viewers. Any bets that they're all Ron Paul supporters?

----------


## HeyArchie

I hate that religion plays such a large role in an election.

----------


## Fermli

> how long is this thing, sheesh


will finish in 3 minutes

----------


## liberty2012

..

----------


## Bobcat

> He didn't forclose it. It just isn't in that one document. Whatever. It is your non-vote.  The others would raise tax by eliminating deductions, though.


If he was going to start the process of phasing out the income tax, he should put it in the document. In my opinion, cutting almost every other tax while not starting the process of phasing out the income tax is an insult to every single American. If you took a vote of a hundred people of what tax they hate the most, I'm certain 90% of them would say the income tax. He has been preaching against the income tax for decades, and there is no excuse whatsoever for him not address phasing it out in his plan.

This debate makes me even more upset, because it shows how the other candidates are nothing but neocons, and support big government.  I sure hope no one in here is falling for them. When I hear someone saying that Bachmann would make a good VP, it makes me sick. She voted for the Patriot Act and supported TARP (if I remember correctly). Also, she does not support bringing the troops home, and supports torture.

It also boggles my mind how anyone can support Cain. He worked for the FED, so he is the enemy, period. Also, he wants to give the government ANOTHER way of collecting taxes IN ADDITION to keeping the income tax in place. It is outrageous!

----------


## sailingaway

> Is it me or are Ron's answers not getting as much applause as some of the other candidates? I understand the demographics of the crowd here, I just hope he can still get the vote from these Evangelical Christians in Iowa.
> 
> I thought he did really well tonight, I just hope the majority of these born-again Christians will support him in the caucuses.


Yeah, he doesn't have a big group here.  But they will like him better than Romney when it comes time to caucus and they look around the room at who is standing where.

----------


## Jtorsella

> I hate that religion plays such a large role in an election.


Completely agree.

----------


## Diurdi

Now I get it why Romney isn't there.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> Is it me or are Ron's answers not getting as much applause as some of the other candidates? I understand the demographics of the crowd here, I just hope he can still get the vote from these Evangelical Christians in Iowa.
> 
> I thought he did really well tonight, I just hope the majority of these born-again Christians will support him in the caucuses.


Perhaps, I believe the light applause is because his new supporters here are _thinking_ about what he just said... I remember my first Ron Paul moment -it was quiet while I sorted out how I had previously been brainwashed.

----------


## bighairycaveman

If I pause the debate will it continue where I paused it? Or will it continue live and I'll miss it?

----------


## Fermli

> If I pause the debate will it continue where I paused it? Or will it continue live and I'll miss it?


it will continue live

----------


## sailingaway

> If he was going to start the process of phasing out the income tax, he should put it in the document. In my opinion, cutting almost every other tax while not starting the process of phasing out the income tax is an insult to every single American. If you took a vote of a hundred people of what tax they hate the most, I'm certain 90% of them would say the income tax. He has been preaching against the income tax for decades, and there is no excuse whatsoever for him not address phasing it out in his plan.
> 
> This debate makes me even more upset, because it shows how the other candidates are nothing but neocons, and support big government.  I sure hope no one in here is falling for them. When I hear someone saying that Bachmann would make a good VP, it makes me sick. She voted for the Patriot Act and supported TARP (if I remember correctly). Also, she does not support bringing the troops home, and supports torture.
> 
> It also boggles my mind how anyone can support Cain. He worked for the FED, so he is the enemy, period. Also, he wants to give the government ANOTHER way of collecting taxes IN ADDITION to keeping the income tax in place. It is outrageous!


She voted for the Patriot Act, she didn't support TARP but did support numerous budget busting spending bills.  She just had a good response to one of the questions, and she was polite to Ron.

Ron isn't going to put everything in one document, so you are just out of luck, I guess.

----------


## Bobcat

Sanatorium keeps talking about wanting to help children, but he sure does not mind sending off other parents kids off to war. I guess he thinks it's awful if a child dies from a disease, but it's just fine if they die in an undeclared war.

----------


## Ranger29860

> If I pause the debate will it continue where I paused it? Or will it continue live and I'll miss it?


It's a live stream so it will pick up to live feed it won't back buffer the parts you missed

----------


## kmalm585

> If I pause the debate will it continue where I paused it? Or will it continue live and I'll miss it?


It'll rebuffer and skip to where it is live.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Whens the FEDERAL RESERVE guy from Nevada going to ask his questions?

----------


## pauliticalfan

I hope Ron gets an answer.

----------


## eok321

1st hour was good. 2nd hour a snore fest.

Ron didn't lose votes and probably picked some up.

Bullet Dodged.

Frank Luntz

----------


## bunklocoempire

Bachman:  "but cannon fodder is different, fodder is something government needs, we must give government that."

----------


## Ranger29860

lol Ron's hand there for a second. Thought he was gonna choke her for taking his talking points

----------


## trey4sports

pander pander pander.

----------


## mikeforliberty

I hate this debate

----------


## sailingaway

> Whens the FEDERAL RESERVE guy going to ask his questions?


With any luck, never.  It doesn't belong in this forum which is to address specific issues the hosts wanted addressed. It is their forum.

----------


## Ranger29860

OMG This could be epic!!!!!

----------


## bunklocoempire

Here we go!!  Come on Seabiscuit!! Go!!

----------


## Bobcat

> She voted for the Patriot Act, she didn't support TARP but did support numerous budget busting spending bills.  She just had a good response to one of the questions, and she was polite to Ron.
> 
> Ron isn't going to put everything in one document, so you are just out of luck, I guess.


Well, her politeness to Paul does not matter to me. I care about her principles, or in her case, the lack thereof. She has no principles when it comes to small government, peace, and liberty. If Ron Paul was a 10 on a scale of 1 (worst) to 10 (best) when it came to principles, Bachmann would be a three. At least that is better than a one or two like the others.

----------


## FreeTraveler

Wow! Just War question. I can't believe that came from Luntz.

----------


## bunklocoempire

Hows history Newt gonna top this?  Oh yeah, fear mongering....

----------


## FreeTraveler

Go Ron!

----------


## Fermli

GO PAUL GO

get those people thinking 

and win those votes!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Pride of the Country for going to WAR? Not this BS phony garbage FU Frank

HIT IT HOME RON!

----------


## FreeTraveler

He's got the facts to back him up.

----------


## sailingaway

He should have finished his point on the just war theory and recited it instead of going against these wars first. He should run through how the just war theory works and how we have not been following it.

----------


## Corey

this last part was so worth watching the entire show!!! Go Ron Go!!!

----------


## FreeTraveler

Ha, we should be thanking Frank for this one. The rest are all warmongers. And he let Ron set the bar. The rest can't clear it, no way, no how.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

GREAT ANSWER!!!

----------


## sailingaway

He tried to put too much into that answer.

----------


## Fermli

decent applause for Paul

----------


## FreeTraveler

I feel a video coming on.

----------


## walt

Wow, he said alot there...

----------


## 69360

Ron just killed it right there. That was his best answer of the whole thing so far

----------


## Kords21

Have fun with this you warmongers, no way you're topping Dr Paul's answer

----------


## Johncjackson

> Ron as he looked at Rick Perry, "I wasn't interested in hunting and fishing, I was interested in economics."


Elitist!

----------


## tfurrh

Frank just interupted the pandering.

----------


## Koz

I missed RP's answer on war, what did he say? Did Santorum say we need all war all the time?

----------


## bunklocoempire

What a dingbat

----------


## IterTemporis

Wait a minute.. We had 3 candidates crying..?

...

----------


## pauliticalfan

Nice answer Ron.

----------


## cornell

I think that answer was perfect until he tried to link it to the economy, he should have gone back to close it with the just war theory again. Pretty good answer though.

----------


## Ronulus

notice how bachman says "american interest" instead of "american defense"

----------


## HeyArchie

> He tried to put too much into that answer.


Yeah, but it was all so accurate lol.

 He should have left out the economic stuff.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Ron brought it all back to the family.

----------


## sailingaway

Bachmann is stealing Ron's lines (modified) and delivering them better than he does, unfortunately.

----------


## Bobcat

Now Bachmann is defending the wars! 

She is so disgusting! 

None of these candidates but Ron Paul realize we had no reason to go into Iraq or Afghanistan!

----------


## Ranger29860

omg illegal detention and interrigation is a good thing?

----------


## jkob

haven't been watching this, how has it been going so far?

----------


## bunklocoempire

Fear mongering to jusify cannon fodder, we'll see who mentions honor..

----------


## Ranger29860

> notice how bachman says "american interest" instead of "american defense"


Yeah i caught that.

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

1-How long is this thing?
2-Has anyone been taping it?

----------


## SlowSki

No Bachmann.  You are not a NON-INTERVENTIONIST.

----------


## FreeTraveler

Cain runs off into left field, as usual.

----------


## trey4sports

LMAO! she just quoted the "dont enter entangling alliances" cant believe bachman. ofcourse she says "im not an isolationist"

----------


## Publicani

Cain: "Secondly..."

----------


## LibertyEsq

Everyone trying to sound like Ron Paul on Foreign Policy all of a sudden LOL

----------


## AJ187

> With any luck, never.  It doesn't belong in this forum which is to address specific issues the hosts wanted addressed. It is their forum.


How does the destruction of currency through the systematic printing money not undermine the families ability to provide for themselves?

----------


## bunklocoempire

WTF?  Cain is an idiot "implied self defense"?

----------


## sailingaway

> No Bachmann.  You are not a NON-INTERVENTIONIST.


not hardly

----------


## Nate-ForLiberty

Is this the debate where all the white people sit around and make arrogant monosyllabic tones of agreement even when they have no idea what they are listening to?


(s*** i'm cynical)

----------


## The Magic Hoof

> Everyone trying to sound like Ron Paul on Foreign Policy all of a sudden LOL


Yep.

----------


## WD-NY

wow, they're all softening their war answers are they not??

----------


## Ranger29860

OMG REALLY PERRY? So $#@! congress?

----------


## Nate-ForLiberty

This sounds like a sermon. I feel like I'm in church.

----------


## sailingaway

let those war fighters win the war?

vocabulary?

----------


## Bobcat

None of these candidates but Ron Paul are admitting what war is really about -- pain and suffering and heartbreak.

----------


## RPSupporter305

Until what time is the forum?

----------


## pauliticalfan

Santorum: This war isn't long enough.


WOW!!!!!!

----------


## JoshS

is there a stream? i just got home

----------


## FreeTraveler

Santorum is resurrecting the Crusades! OMG. headbang.

----------


## sailingaway

Oh noes!  The Arabs got lights and running water!!

----------


## Ranger29860

> is there a stream? i just got home


http://www.citizenlink.com/

----------


## Bobcat

All of these candidates support war, war, and more war -- except Ron Paul.

----------


## tfurrh

Santorum says it's a Holy War, AND a war for oil in the same sentence.

----------


## sailingaway

Holy oil.....

----------


## axlr

> Santorum: This war isn't long enough.
> 
> 
> WOW!!!!!!


Sounds like John McCain...

----------


## Bobcat

Santorum, Russia and China have nuclear weapons, why don't you go to war with them too??? Oh? What? Too chicken?

----------


## COpatriot

Santorum: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRR!!

----------


## bunklocoempire

Disgusting

----------


## pauliticalfan

Newt shouts out Ron again. Yes!

----------


## IterTemporis

Did you hear that applause to Santorum?

----------


## Bobcat

Israel has over a hundred nuclear weapons, yet we don't criticize them. It is a double standard to criticize Iran for having a nuclear weapon when we ignore the fact Israel has hundreds. Any sovereign nation has a right to have a nuclear weapon.

----------


## bunklocoempire

Preciousness? Yeah right.  Let's not show the caskets on tv

----------


## rawful

Newt: American troops are the only troops with family and friends.

----------


## sailingaway

> Israel has over a hundred nuclear weapons, yet we don't criticize them. It is a double standard to criticize Iran for having a nuclear weapon when we ignore the fact Israel has hundreds. Any sovereign nation has a right to have a nuclear weapon.


Don't vote for Ron, though.  He didn't start ending income tax except on savings, in his current balance the budget plan.

----------


## matt0611

> Did you hear that applause to Santorum?


Missed it, was it loud or no?

----------


## pauliticalfan

Now Newt agrees with Santorum.

What a panderer.

----------


## PreDeadMan

man this feed $#@!ing blows so slow and lagging and cutting in and out

----------


## Bobcat

Newt is a warmonger just like Santorum.

----------


## sailingaway

We're going to impose our view of other people's borders on them?  

Newt you are an idiot.

----------


## matt0611

$#@! you Frank.

----------


## jkob

Just turned it on for last question, horrifying answer by Newt Gingrich.

----------


## Bobcat

The debate was awful. 

Ron Paul was the only one that seemed worthy of becoming president.

----------


## COpatriot

$#@! Rick Santorum. That guy is dangerous and scary.

"We have a moral obligation to protect Israel."

All you need know right there.

----------


## Nate-ForLiberty

The irony, these people who love war are probably going to see it on their doorstep. 


...way to go, $#@!ers.

----------


## HeyArchie

This stream makes my entire computer lag.  Sadly, I think Newt won a couple votes with his "Non-Americans aren't worth as much" and "Destroy everything in the Middle East now with more force" talk.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Newt is absolutely petrifying. If he becomes the nominee I don't know what the hell is gonna happen to this country. Unbelievable.

----------


## Cap

Ron got his message out. I thought very very well. Good moment for us.

----------


## Johncjackson

> I think it was someone blowing their nose


He had santorum in his nose?

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Wow, did i just see santorums daughter? she looked hot.

----------


## HeyArchie

> The debate was awful. 
> 
> Ron Paul was the only one that seemed worthy of becoming president.


Are you trying to get your rep back?  LoL.

----------


## realtonygoodwin

Is it over?

----------


## BUSHLIED

i can't beleive it ended, after all that was talked about with family, god etc...with WAR and striking Iran...to applause...even, in a church...

----------


## walt

I'll say it again, *it was SO much more pleasant without Romney there....*

----------


## Bobcat

All of the other candidates are terrifying.

Ron Paul is obviously the best candidate.

He is the only one who wants peace and small government.

All the others think more government and war is the answer.

----------


## jumpyg1258

The crowd is cheering cause apparently Jesus was all about the "Thou shall kill and covet thy neighbors goods".

----------


## FreeTraveler

> The debate was awful. 
> 
> Ron Paul was the only one that seemed worthy of becoming president.


Your second statement thoroughly negates your first. It was an awesome debate because Ron Paul was the only one that seemed worthy of becoming president.

----------


## Diurdi

Didn't catch all of the debate, but it seemed like Luntz was pretty fair overall. The other candidates are pretty terrifying though, and so is much of the audience.

Liberals are going to have a field day with this material.

----------


## Bobcat

> i can't beleive it ended, after all that was talked about with family, god etc...with WAR and striking Iran...to applause...even, in a church...


I am a Christian, but I will boldly state that 90% of the most evangelical Christians have turned into war mongers. They claim to be Christians, but don't mind one bit if a war kills millions of people.

----------


## trey4sports

Ron did very well i believe.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Serve up the Mayonnaise...

This was like sitting at the bar sober and hearing some philosophic babbling by the drunks sitting around you.  Ron did well, but the unknowing seniors went for the emotions and BS acting.

----------


## pauliticalfan

I still can't get over with how Newt agreed with both Ron Paul and Rick Santorum's foreign policy in the same $#@!ing answer. He's trying to have it both ways and it's disgusting.

----------


## Dorfsmith

I tuned in just in time to hear Newt give a terrible answer at the end. How did Ron do? Did they give him any questions?

----------


## IterTemporis

If Luntz truly was fair with everyone, then I must say Thank You, Frank.

Awaiting the RP highlights.

----------


## sailingaway

Is Luntz having a spin segment afterwards or can I turn off the stream now?

Come to think of it, I don't want to see his spin segment.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> i can't beleive it ended, after all that was talked about with family, god etc...with WAR and striking Iran...to applause...even, in a church...


There's a difference between faith and religion.  Those applauding war, fear, pride, etc. are religious.  Those now quietly contemplating the truths they heard from Paul are the ones concerned with their faith.

----------


## sailingaway

> If Luntz truly was fair with everyone, then I must say Thank You, Frank.
> 
> Awaiting the RP highlights.


Somehow abortion never came up only gay marriage. And as far as I saw Gingrich was never hit with gay marriage.  (I did leave for a while in the middle.)  I think there was a bit of spin on that.  They would bond with Ron on the life issue, less on having individuals and their church decide marriage.

----------


## Brett85

> I still can't get over with how Newt agreed with both Ron Paul and Rick Santorum's foreign policy in the same $#@!ing answer. He's trying to have it both ways and it's disgusting.


Or maybe he just is somewhere in the middle on foreign policy issues?  It seems like he's gone more in Ron's direction on the war in Afghanistan and closing down foreign bases, but he's still extremely hawkish on Iran.

----------


## Jtorsella

> Is Luntz having a spin segment afterwards or can I turn off the stream now?
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't want to see his spin segment.


Frank was pretty fair. Kinda gained some respect. The only targeted q was from the other guy. Also, generally speaking, he was a terrific moderator.

----------


## RDM

Pro Life...Pro Life...Pro Life.......Kill innocent little babies with Drones. Just freaken sickening. They stand on a principles of christianity? Give me a break.

----------


## XTreat

tubez?

----------


## Brett85

Will this be on youtube?

----------


## parocks

> thats fine let him splinter the non-Paul votes.


yes, more scatter, less flavor of the month

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

Youtube?

----------


## Cap

> Is Luntz having a spin segment afterwards or can I turn off the stream now?
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't want to see his spin segment.


I turned it off.

----------


## roversaurus

> I still can't get over with how Newt agreed with both Ron Paul and Rick Santorum's foreign policy in the same $#@!ing answer. He's trying to have it both ways and it's disgusting.



Ha,,ha,ha
  I hadn't realized that!

----------


## Bobcat

> Are you trying to get your rep back?  LoL.


I could care less about rep.

I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.

However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.

----------


## GHoeberX

> I still can't get over with how Newt agreed with both Ron Paul and Rick Santorum's foreign policy in the same $#@!ing answer. He's trying to have it both ways and it's disgusting.


Quoted for truth

----------


## bunklocoempire

> Pro Life...Pro Life...Pro Life.......Kill innocent little babies with Drones. Just freaken sickening. They stand on a principles of christianity? Give me a break.


There's a difference between faith and religion. Those applauding war, fear, pride, etc. are religious. Those now quietly contemplating the truths they heard from Paul are the ones concerned with their own _faith_.

----------


## KingNothing

Ron did great. Should play well with voters.

I'm guessing that Cain, Bachmann and Perry come up short, while Newt, Paul and Santorum get some praise.

----------


## JoshS

> I could care less about rep.


couldn't*




> I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.
> 
> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


I was quite peeved he didn't address the income tax as well.

----------


## bluesc

> I could care less about rep.
> 
> I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.
> 
> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


LEAVE THEN. I propose we ban this guy.

----------


## mikeforliberty

We just listened to a bunch of GOP hopefuls belittle the value of non-American lives, justify the deaths of American soldiers, support torture, and promote an arrogant war doctrine all while giving praise to God throughout the debate. All of this took place inside of a church. This is a mockery of what Jesus taught.  I feel gross inside.

----------


## LBennett76

Right before they cut the feed something was about to go down. Some guy was yelling at someone. Then bam! feed was gone. Wonder what that was about?

----------


## Canderson

I heard that too, something about a nightstick

----------


## Johncjackson

> How does the destruction of currency through the systematic printing money not undermine the families ability to provide for themselves?


"The Family" issues are abortion, teh gays, (maybe school prayer?), murdering non-Christians. There is no economics in "the family."

----------


## wgadget

Why does Bachmann keep saying UNINTED STATES? 

And Perry made up a new word with PROSELYTED.

Ergg

----------


## wstrucke

> LEAVE THEN. I propose we ban this guy.


We should embrace adversity within our own ranks if we want to grow and prosper.

----------


## Diurdi

> I could care less about rep.
> 
> I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.
> 
> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


 You can't cut taxes without cutting spending in an equal manner, the difference is just going to get taxed through inflation anyway. Ron's cutting your taxes by getting rid of the inflationt tax.

----------


## StilesBC

> We should embrace adversity within our own ranks if we want to grow and prosper.


+1

----------


## wgadget

Did you guys see the OWS guy who got up at the beginning criticizing the Fed? 

I bet he's disappointed.

----------


## LBennett76

Yeah I heard the nightstick thing too...

----------


## bluesc

> We should embrace adversity within our own ranks if we want to grow and prosper.


You mean the idiot who won't vote for Ron until he makes impossible promises, and calls him unelectable?

----------


## pauliticalfan

If anything, this debate just solidified even more my vote and belief in *no one but Paul.*

----------


## HeyArchie

> I could care less about rep.
> 
> I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.
> 
> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


I agree that the income tax needs to be addressed and so does Paul.  What you are assuming is that the American people are ready for everything that Ron wants to do at this very moment.  In case you haven't noticed, the likely GOP voter is rather fickle and has little to no understanding of how economics work.  If Ron ran on the platform that he really wanted to, he would never see the Oval Office.  It will be easier to get his ideas out once he is in there, as they will not seem as "crazy."

But, enjoy 4 more years of Obama or 4 years of Obamney. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

----------


## Fermli

Low quality tube:
http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/11/ron-p...m-nov-19-2011/

----------


## James Madison

> We just listened to a bunch of GOP hopefuls belittle the value of non-American lives, justify the deaths of American soldiers, support torture, and promote an arrogant war doctrine all while giving praise to God throughout the debate. All of this took place inside of a church. This is a mockery of what Jesus taught.  I feel gross inside.


Christianity is run by Pharisees.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Still curious to see if anything was picked up by the open mics during halftime between Luntz and Ron.

----------


## James Madison

> I could care less about rep.
> 
> I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.
> 
> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


I agree. To hell with saving the country and all that crap. Ron should make unrealistic promises that he won't be able to keep.

/s

----------


## parocks

> Ron did great. Should play well with voters.
> 
> I'm guessing that Cain, Bachmann and Perry come up short, while Newt, Paul and Santorum get some praise.


yeah

----------


## sailingaway

> Did you guys see the OWS guy who got up at the beginning criticizing the Fed? 
> 
> I bet he's disappointed.


plant. doubt he was disappointed.

----------


## roversaurus

> We just listened to a bunch of GOP hopefuls belittle the value of non-American lives, justify the deaths of American soldiers, support torture, and promote an arrogant war doctrine all while giving praise to God throughout the debate. All of this took place inside of a church. This is a mockery of what Jesus taught.  I feel gross inside.


You may be disgusted by the applause at the end for Gingrich. But if you notice, Gingrich was a masterful in how he said it. He started by agreeing with Paul and the Christian just war theory. He talked about needing to declare wars and accomplish the mission. At the end he talked about retaliating for the attack on 9/11 ... Now pause right there in your train of thought (and notice that Gingrich did NOT pause here - he hurried). But I agree with everything Gingrich said there. Most of us on these forums do. And at this point I would be ready for some really loud applause myself.  ... And that's where Gingrich slipped in let's go to war against Iran.

Everyone was already going to applaud by that time. He had manipulated them in to applauding his last line too. If he had started and ended with that he would have gotten nothing.

----------


## Hospitaller

> But, enjoy 4 more years of Obama or 4 years of Obamney. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Romney is bushes 4th term

----------


## milo10

> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


What, are you nuts?  

I'm an anarchist.  My ideal level of govt? *None.*

And yet I'll support Ron Paul.  This is all a process, of which Ron Paul is only a small part.  If you think getting Ron Paul elected is going to get you, me, and everyone else to the promised land, then I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that.  It's beginning steps on a long journey.

This is the reality we face.  Like you, I would like to have seen far, far more in that first year then what we got.  I would like to see a balanced budget in our first year, I would like the first round of income tax reduction, I would like SS opt-out for every age group as well as our beginning the process of raising the age and making people with very high incomes ineligible, etc..   I want the whole damn system to go through the process of being phased-out entirely.

But, what is Ron is doing is far more politically realistic than what I want to do at this stage.  I recognize that.  

I respect people who disagree with Ron on some things or don't like the political process, etc..  But you are really going to have to think about what you want and how to get there.   There are a lot of ways to do this outside of politics, and that is great.  But any method that abandons politics in a world with govt is doomed at some level.

----------


## AJ187

> "The Family" issues are abortion, teh gays, (maybe school prayer?), murdering non-Christians. There is no economics in "the family."


So families aren't affected by the economy.  I don't get it.  Paul brought up the wars effect on families of service members, I think the point could be made that all things, including high taxation and over spending and such have a great effect on family values, but what do I know....

----------


## Johncjackson

> So families aren't affected by the economy.  I don't get it.  Paul brought up the wars effect on families of service members, I think the point could be made that all things, including high taxation and over spending and such have a great effect on family values, but what do I know....


Sorry, you missed my point- which was that the debate is not legitimately about families. It is about whatever wedge issues deemed important to/by Born again Christians in Iowa.

They don't want to hear about the Fed.

----------


## AJ187

> Sorry, you missed my point- which was that the debate is not legitimately about families. It is about whatever wedge issues deemed important to/by Born again Christians in Iowa.
> 
> They don't want to hear about the Fed.


Oh, I get you.  I don't know if I get that crowd though...

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

Anybody youtube the entire thing?

----------


## Havax

Didn't see this debate at all. Can someone recap how it went for Ron?

----------


## Crickett

> Didn't see this debate at all. Can someone recap how it went for Ron?


http://www.livestream.com/thanksgivi...7-d23cc7fee1a1
if you can sit through it all...

----------


## opinionatedfool

> Romney is bushes 4th term


Well said! Everyone but Ron Paul is a war monger and Bushes fourth term.

----------


## KingNothing

> Didn't see this debate at all. Can someone recap how it went for Ron?



Cain, Santorum and Gingrich actually cried.  Seriously.   Ron answered questions very well, and didn't weep.

----------


## EWM

This would have been great without all the religious stuff.

----------


## trey4sports

I  think Ron came out very well. No attacks and nothing negative, plus he seemed very authentic to the crowd.

----------


## JoshS

> Cain, Santorum and Gingrich actually cried.  Seriously.


Can't tell if srs

----------


## Ray

Are tubes up? I was at work.

----------


## IterTemporis

Whole thing is here. RP got the first question. It's at about 38 minutes. 

RP Answers:
- 38 mins
- 50 mins
- 59 mins
- 1:03
- 1:15
- 1:16 Perry jokes with Ron. (Hint: Energy Department)
- 1:24
- 1:52:23

http://www.livestream.com/thanksgivi...7-d23cc7fee1a1

----------


## KingNothing

> Can't tell if srs



Very serious.  First Cain cried, then later Santorum, then Newt hoped on the bandwagon and squeezed out some tears.

----------


## freeforall

> Very serious.  First Cain cried, then later Santorum, then Newt hoped on the bandwagon and squeezed out some tears.


luntz is the new orprah

----------


## EWM

2:23:53 LOL!!!!!!


http://www.livestream.com/thanksgivi...edium=ui-thumb

----------


## KingNothing

I thought this was the most interesting debate to date.  It was really, really odd.

And Paul did well.

----------


## IterTemporis

> I thought this was the most interesting debate to date.  It was really, really odd.
> 
> And Paul did well.


What I find odd about it is that Paul was able to speak a lot. I am just going through it and I was pleasantly surprised.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Christianity is run by Pharisees.


truth.  And way more insightful than 99% of the Christians I have discussed with.

----------


## KingNothing

> What I find odd about it is that Paul was able to speak a lot. I am just going through it and I was pleasantly surprised.


That, the crying, and how likable the candidates -generally- seemed.

----------


## IterTemporis

> That, the crying, and how likable the candidates -generally- seemed.


Oh I have not seen the crying parts yet.

----------


## bluesc

I feel bad for Santorum, but damn, he really did eat up all the time.

----------


## RDM

Twitter feed is saying Cain and Paul down on Iowa Caucus electronic market. Gingrich, Perry and Romney up. Oh boy.

----------


## bluesc

> Twitter feed is saying Cain and Paul down on Iowa Caucus electronic market. Gingrich, Perry and Romney up. Oh boy.


Not _that_ many people saw the forum. I don't trust that or intrade. I trust polls, where Ron is moving up.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Romney wasn't even at the forum...

----------


## bluesc

> Romney wasn't even at the forum...


NY times article saying he is increasing his presence in Iowa significantly.

----------


## IterTemporis

> Not _that_ many people saw the forum. I don't trust that or intrade. I trust polls, where Ron is moving up.


That is not true. I am looking at it right now, Ron isn't down, and neither is Cain. They have gone up. Romney, Gingrich, and Perry have gone down.

----------


## RDM

> That is not true. I am looking at it right now, Ron isn't down, and neither is Cain. They have gone up. Romney, Gingrich, and Perry have gone down.


Thanks, I don't follow it. I was just reporting what I saw on Twitter feed. Can you provide a ranking update?

----------


## pacelli

I was listening to this on a micro-FM station as I was hiking through the woods today.  I had a lot of "WTF" moments.  Like... out loud.  Then I was like, "no wonder it wasn't televised".

Santorum's thing about the kid was just strange.  If the GOP expects to garner votes with that kind of stuff, then for me it is no one but paul.

----------


## freedoms-light

> Holy oil.....


For anointing maybe?

----------


## BUSHLIED

Frank Luntz=Goebbels

----------


## JoshS

tubez yet?

----------


## KingNothing

Tube of just Paul:

----------


## GeorgiaAvenger

> Tube of just Paul:


Have the full thing?

----------


## KingNothing

> Have the full thing?



Full thing:


http://www.livestream.com/thanksgivi...edium=ui-thumb

----------


## ShaneEnochs

Did Luntz do anything afterward giving his opinion?  Appear on any shows or anything?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Full thing:
> 
> 
> http://www.livestream.com/thanksgivi...edium=ui-thumb


You'll need mega-stamina to view that. From my exp, if you buffer it to see Paul you'll have an underlying audio script the flows from the start along with the buffered and up-to-date version. So, 2 streams at once.

----------


## COpatriot

Ron's answer about unnecessary wars and bad economics being the two forces most destructive to the family was pure gold. How that message doesn't resonate with the average churchgoing GOP primary voter completely baffles me. For some reason they only seem to understand moronic airheads like Bachmann and Santorum screaming about gays, abortions, Israel, and WAAAAAAARRRRRRR!! Kill more Muslims!

----------


## reagle

> Whole thing is here. RP got the first question. It's at about 38 minutes. 
> 
> RP Answers:
> - 38 mins
> - 50 mins
> - 59 mins
> - 1:03
> - 1:15
> - 1:16 Perry jokes with Ron. (Hint: Energy Department)
> ...


more RP Answers:

2:14:45
2:20:40
2:39:08

----------


## evadmurd

Very balanced.  Ron probably could have had a little more if he tried, but he's not a pushy SOB like most of the others.  Hate to say it, but on balance, Frank did a good job.

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## mpdsapuser

> Ron's answer about unnecessary wars and bad economics being the two forces most destructive to the family was pure gold. How that message doesn't resonate with the average churchgoing GOP primary voter completely baffles me. For some reason they only seem to understand moronic airheads like Bachmann and Santorum screaming about gays, abortions, Israel, and WAAAAAAARRRRRRR!! Kill more Muslims!


If Romney had been there, we would've been forced to hear "jihadist" in his smarky accent.

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## Uriah

> Did Luntz do anything afterward giving his opinion?  Appear on any shows or anything?



Luntz had a focus group in the audience. He'll interview them and it will air at a later date. But I'm not sure when.

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## Bern

Ron was seated with his back to the focus group if I understood Luntz correctly.

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## IterTemporis

> more RP Answers:
> 
> 2:14:45
> 2:20:40
> 2:39:08


Thank you. I forgot to post the rest.

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## Revolution9

> santorum against sexual revolution..... lol how about womens rights? Dip$#@!


How do they equate? Gloria Steinham is not women's rights. She was a "$#@! yer boss and not yer hubby" kind of yin bitch. If I understand your statement you are referring to promiscuity = sexual rights for women. The Rockefellers funded feminazism which is the part of the women's rights movement that has done the most damage to women as individuals.

Rev9

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## Revolution9

> This doesn't make any sense to me. Thanksgiving is the second Monday of October. Why are they doing this in mid-November???


Harvest comes in later in the southern states and Thanksgiving is essentially a harvest festival. It is earlier in Canada too being their harvest comes in in september to october.

Rev9

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## Revolution9

> How about without your overzealous criticism?


I was waiting for one more from him in that vein and it would be waltz time to math metal. He has a Hazek avatar so I am guessing he is one of the backslapping ancap/anarchists.

Rev9

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## Omnica

> They've got this 'Newt reborn' thing going.  They'll have a hard time stretching it to cover TARP approval, NAFTA cheerleading, being for global warming regulations, and his Freddie and big PHRMA lobbying, though.


And thats not even half the sordid story

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## eok321

I've been thinking about Luntz and his fairness last night. I smell a rat because i just dont trust the guy.

I think his fairness during a non televised debate has been used to build up his credibility amongst this voting block who were watching/listening to this debate.

When he gets on Fox News a week out from the Iowa caucus/NH Primary and has his focus group showing candidate x with 90% positive feedback and Ron with really negative feedback, alot of these voters are going to follow like sheep to the slaughter and vote for candidate x.

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## Muwahid

> I've been thinking about Luntz and his fairness last night. I smell a rat because i just dont trust the guy.
> 
> I think his fairness during a non televised debate has been used to build up his credibility amongst this voting block who were watching/listening to this debate.
> 
> When he gets on Fox News a week out from the Iowa caucus/NH Primary and has his focus group showing candidate x with 90% positive feedback and Ron with really negative feedback, alot of these voters are going to follow like sheep to the slaughter and vote for candidate x.


Wouldn't be surprised on that

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## wstrucke

> Ron's answer about unnecessary wars and bad economics being the two forces most destructive to the family was pure gold. How that message doesn't resonate with the average churchgoing GOP primary voter completely baffles me. For some reason they only seem to understand moronic airheads like Bachmann and Santorum screaming about gays, abortions, Israel, and WAAAAAAARRRRRRR!! Kill more Muslims!


Like many of us once were, a lot of people have their MSM blinders on so those are the "issues" they care about.  Until the industrial military/MSM/FED stuff gets through to them they're going to continue to see Ron like a deer in headlights and skip over what he's saying.  Fortunately truth is a powerful thing once it gets out and it is most definitely out.

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## trey4sports

http://phone.ronpaul2012.com/v/login...rn_url=%2Fv%2F

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## ross11988

> http://phone.ronpaul2012.com/v/login...rn_url=%2Fv%2F


Its Sunday Silly

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## singe22

Gah it was so hard listening to anyone but Paul.  Its just a hypocritical cycle.  They want government to get out of their way so they can live, but then want to turn around and have the Federal government enforce and define traditional marriage.

FFS, i am straight, and i dont use drugs.  If someone wants to marry the same sex and do those things, just dont tread on me. And they shouldnt get special treatment either.

What Paul should of said is that if the States keep saying no to the Federal government and the feds want to punish the states, it is the states right to succede from the Union.

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## William R

bump

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## da32130

> I've been thinking about Luntz and his fairness last night. I smell a rat because i just dont trust the guy.
> 
> I think his fairness during a non televised debate has been used to build up his credibility amongst this voting block who were watching/listening to this debate.
> 
> When he gets on Fox News a week out from the Iowa caucus/NH Primary and has his focus group showing candidate x with 90% positive feedback and Ron with really negative feedback, alot of these voters are going to follow like sheep to the slaughter and vote for candidate x.


Here may be the rat:

http://www.livestream.com/thanksgivi...7-d23cc7fee1a1

At minute 31:30 or slightly after he lets an OWS protester get on stage and the person mentions wanting Ron Paul to talk about the Fed.

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## LibertyEagle

> Santorum is a socon.  It's illegal because it's immoral.


There isn't anything conservative about Santorum.  If a person believes in big government, they are not a conservative.

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## IterTemporis

> Thanks, I don't follow it. I was just reporting what I saw on Twitter feed. Can you provide a ranking update?


I apologize, I did not see your post.

1. Mitt Romney 36.8% Going down
2. Newt Gingrich 28.5% Going up now, previously was going down
3. Ron Paul 19.0% Going up
4. Herman Cain 7.5% Going down now, previously was going up
5. Michele Bachmann 7.0% Going up
6. Rick Perry 3.5% Going down
7. Rick Santorum 3.0% Going down I think

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## sailingaway

> I apologize, I did not see your post.
> 
> 1. Mitt Romney 36.8% Going down
> 2. Newt Gingrich 28.5% Going up now, previously was going down
> 3. Ron Paul 19.0% Going up
> 4. Herman Cain 7.5% Going down now, previously was going up
> 5. Michele Bachmann 7.0% Going up
> 6. Rick Perry 3.5% Going down
> 7. Rick Santorum 3.0% Going down I think


hm.

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## alex_florida

> I could care less about rep.
> 
> I will boldly state over and over that I think Ron Paul insulted millions of Americans by ignoring the income tax in his tax plan. If there was enough money to cut many other taxes, the income tax should have been cut too.
> 
> However, I will also say I still think he is the best candidate. I just can't vote for him or tell anyone to vote for him until he changes his economic plan, and starts cutting the income tax.


I was surprised and frustrated as well that Dr. Paul did not address the issue of abolishing Income Tax and eliminating IRS in his plan, even if by step by step cutting, by stages. He offers to eliminate TSA in the plan what is great but Income Tax enslaves and IRS harrasses much more people than TSA, it was probably the biggest assault on personal freedom and property rights since the beggining of "progressive era". He should, at least, to show the path for doing it in future... Productive and free loving people hate IRS even more than TSA so even if he had just declared the intention to do with it in future, it could have brougt a lot of additional votes. Dr. Paul talked about Income Tax as the most harmfull tax times out of number - hopefully, not disclosing it in the plan was just a mistake and he has not changed his mind to start doing with this issue if a President... but yet this mistake though a strategic one is no reason not to vote for Dr. Paul.

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## dude58677

> I was surprised and frustrated as well that Dr. Paul did not address the issue of abolishing Income Tax and eliminating IRS in his plan, even if by step by step cutting, by stages. He offers to eliminate TSA in the plan what is great but Income Tax enslaves and IRS harrasses much more people than TSA, it was probably the biggest assault on personal freedom and property rights since the beggining of "progressive era". He should, at least, to show the path for doing it in future... Productive and free loving people hate IRS even more than TSA so even if he had just declared the intention to do with it in future, it could have brougt a lot of additional votes. Dr. Paul talked about Income Tax as the most harmfull tax times out of number - hopefully, not disclosing it in the plan was just a mistake and he has not changed his mind to start doing with this issue if a President... but yet this mistake though a strategic one is no reason not to vote for Dr. Paul.


You really think that he would let his friend Irwin schiff rot in prison? Of course he will pardon him and once he pardons him then he will have to pardon everyone else. Irwin Schiff is the one who promoted books that said that there is no law requiring Americans to pay income taxes.

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## 2young2vote

I looked for the highlights on youtube.  The top videos are all about Ron Paul.  Watching it now, but i'm surprised he got so much time to speak (20 minutes!).  After watching it I like this format better.  He basically got unlimited time to talk and the questions were all fair, surprisingly.

Was there an after-forum discussion/focus group?  If so, I'd like to know what they said.

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## alex_florida

> You really think that he would let his friend Irwin schiff rot in prison? Of course he will pardon him and once he pardons him then he will have to pardon everyone else. Irwin Schiff is the one who promoted books that said that there is no law requiring Americans to pay income taxes.


At least, Dr. Paul could say that he as a President would request to rewrite this monstrous 70,000-page Tax Code to simplify it and correct/ abolish the most outrageous things there such as mandatory filing Personal Income Tax Returns by all taxpayers (huge waste of time and resourses and contradicts to 4th ammendment to the Constitution - Miranda rights to remain silent and against self-incrimination - one of the points of Irwin Schiff), taxing all US citizens/ persons on their worldwide income even if they do not reside in the US (almost our US exclusive - no other countries except a few exotic ones tax citizens those live abroad), etc. He could address it vagually, no details, but still show that he will do deal with it...

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## Karsten

> I was surprised and frustrated as well that Dr. Paul did not address the issue of abolishing Income Tax and eliminating IRS in his plan, even if by step by step cutting, by stages. He offers to eliminate TSA in the plan what is great but Income Tax enslaves and IRS harrasses much more people than TSA, it was probably the biggest assault on personal freedom and property rights since the beggining of "progressive era". He should, at least, to show the path for doing it in future... Productive and free loving people hate IRS even more than TSA so even if he had just declared the intention to do with it in future, it could have brougt a lot of additional votes. Dr. Paul talked about Income Tax as the most harmfull tax times out of number - hopefully, not disclosing it in the plan was just a mistake and he has not changed his mind to start doing with this issue if a President... but yet this mistake though a strategic one is no reason not to vote for Dr. Paul.


He has said numerous times that he wants to abolish the IRS and replace it with nothing.
What more do you want?

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## wgadget

I think he wants him to do it in his first year.  LOL

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## alex_florida

> I think he wants him to do it in his first year.  LOL


Of course, not, nobody expects it within his first year and even first term in full but the process should be launched... 
Yes, he has said about abolishing IRS many times but no one word about reforming IRS or Tax Code in his economic plan. This is the point and this is very confusing, and Dr. Paul should explain it additionally, why there is no mention about any reform of IRS and doing with Personal Income Tax (except eliminating taxes on savings, dead tax, reducing corporate tax) in the plan.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> Of course, not, nobody expects it within his first year and even first term in full but the process should be launched... 
> Yes, he has said about abolishing IRS many times but no one word about reforming IRS or Tax Code in his economic plan. This is the point and this is very confusing, and Dr. Paul should explain it additionally, why there is no mention about any reform of IRS and doing with Personal Income Tax (except eliminating taxes on savings, dead tax, reducing corporate tax) in the plan.


I agree that it's disappointing that the plan doesn't eliminate the IRS/income tax, given that it's been part of his platform forever, but rest assured, there's no way that a Ron Paul administration would prosecute "tax evaders" for a non-crime. Also, he has said in a few interviews that he wants to deal with government spending first, which in and of itself is a tax (given that it leads to borrowing or printing [inflation]).

Lastly, during the Center Seat segment on Fox News Special Report, he stated that his ideal tax plan is 0-0-0.

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