# Think Tank > History >  James Madison on AID to HAITIAN REFUGEES (1794)

## Galileo Galilei

*James Madison on AID to HAITIAN REFUGEES (1794)*

No one can deny the overwhelming need of the Haitian refugees who have been affected by the devastating earthquake. May our hearts, prayers and money speedily aid of them.

With that said, it was interesting to note that in 1794, the US Congress was faced with this very same dilemma, as to what exactly the role of the federal government was in instances such as these--specifically with regards to HAITI. The following is from the 1st session of the 3rd Congress when Madison led votes against granting assistance to French refugees from the Haitian revolution in 1794.

Annals of Congress, House of Representatives, 3rd Congress, 1st Session, page 170 (1794-01-10) [3]. The Annals summarize speeches in the third person, with the actual text of Madison's quote as follows:

_"Mr. Madison wished to relieve the sufferers, but was afraid of establishing a dangerous precedent, which might hereafter be perverted to the countenance of purposes very different from those of charity. He acknowledged, for his own part, that he could not undertake to lay his finger on that article in the Federal Constitution which granted a right of Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."_

The expense in question was for French refugees from the Haitian Revolution.

This is the instance which gave rise to Madison's famous quote:

_"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."_

--James Madison

http://thegroundgameblog.blogspot.co...o-haitian.html

Please note that the States could also help refugees, and that the Constitution could be amended if such a constitutional power was deemd worthy.

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## Chaohinon

Individuals would have much more charitable potential if not for the government looting so much from their pockets

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## SelfTaught

> _"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."_
> 
> --James Madison


I've had this quote hammered into my head after watching or listening to a ton of Walter E Williams interviews and lectures.

Thanks for posting.

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## Captain Shays

I think we should choose our battles carefully. This isn't something that would endear us to the indoctrinated who believe that "we should do this" and "we should do that" relative to either foreign military interventions or humanitarian relief. Especially when so many people are suffering so horribly. We can always suggest what was already said above that we could do more as individuals if the government didn't take so much of our money but to attempt to fight our government at a time like this, from giving something to so many in dire need might make us look cruel and heartless.
Yes, no doubt we ALL understand that the real heartlessness and cruelty comes from the government forcing us under threat of losing everything we have, to give charity to those they think need our hard earned money more than we and our families. Yes, it's more cruel to drive the next three generations into debt. Yes it's cruel and heartless to cause the lowering of our standard of living by their misguided policies and errant philosophies which in the end cause more harm to more people but that battle is a long term one and right now, those people need all the help they can get.

I totally agree with Madison BTW.

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## jclay2

Amazing quote. Hits it right on the head.

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## Zippyjuan

> Individuals would have much more charitable potential if not for the government looting so much from their pockets


Would YOU give more? When you received your George Bush tax cut did you increase your charitable giving?

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## Fox McCloud

> Would YOU give more? When you received your George Bush tax cut did you increase your charitable giving?


considering you have to make over $72,000 to even fall into the bracket of someone making a sizable tax-break (even this is debatable; it's really only sizable for those who are in the top 1%), I'd say that your statement doesn't apply to the vast vast majority of members here on this forum.

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## dannno

> Would YOU give more? When you received your George Bush tax cut did you increase your charitable giving?


So the dude gets taxed about 50% of his income (including ALL taxes), he gets back about 1%, and he's supposed to spend it on charity?!!?


WTF.


Try giving him the other 49% first, THEN ask your question again.

That's like $20k+, if I got a check for $20k+ I would give a substancial portion to charity. 

Right now most of my "charity" money is going to liberty candidates so that I'll have more money to give to charity in the future when we can potentially all be more prosperous.

Before Ron Paul I was giving money to local charities and volunteering fairly regularly. I see liberty as the best thing I could give to people, so that's what I'm working on now.

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## Pauliana

It will be easier to point out the bureacratic barriers that will inevitably crop up and prevent private aid from getting where it needs to go.

Governments pledge all this money and help, but really they should pledge to stay out of the way instead of sicking their bureaucrats on the humanitarians.

For example, the FAA stopping all flights to haiti?  Really?  There must be a better way to deal with the challenges on the ground right now than have 11 aid planes circle and circle and circle...

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## LittleLightShining

> I think we should choose our battles carefully. This isn't something that would endear us to the indoctrinated who believe that "we should do this" and "we should do that" relative to either foreign military interventions or humanitarian relief. Especially when so many people are suffering so horribly. We can always suggest what was already said above that we could do more as individuals if the government didn't take so much of our money but to attempt to fight our government at a time like this, from giving something to so many in dire need might make us look cruel and heartless.
> Yes, no doubt we ALL understand that the real heartlessness and cruelty comes from the government forcing us under threat of losing everything we have, to give charity to those they think need our hard earned money more than we and our families. Yes, it's more cruel to drive the next three generations into debt. Yes it's cruel and heartless to cause the lowering of our standard of living by their misguided policies and errant philosophies which in the end cause more harm to more people but that battle is a long term one and right now, those people need all the help they can get.
> 
> I totally agree with Madison BTW.


Thank you for saying this.

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## ..PAUL4PRES..

Thanks for the post!

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## ItsTime

Great quote thanks.




> Would YOU give more? When you received your George Bush tax cut did you increase your charitable giving?


Actually it was laws Bush signed into law that made me stop giving over $20,000 a year away.

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## Zippyjuan

So everybody has an excues why they would not give more to charity but yet claim that if taxes went down (which according to Bush they did) everybody would donate more.  I see.  Leave it to somebody else. They will take care of it.  Not my problem.

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## Pizzo

> So everybody has an excues why they would not give more to charity but yet claim that if taxes went down (which according to Bush they did) everybody would donate more.  I see.  Leave it to somebody else. They will take care of it.  Not my problem.



If there were no federal income tax, I'm pretty damn sure almost everyone would be more charitable with both money and time.  I've paid almost 505 of my income in taxes the last 4 years and still gave quite a bit to charity and even directly to people in need so no write off available for that money.  just did it because i wanted.  but there comes a point where people become bitter and a bit tired of only having half the money they earned.  The last two years I've only donated to animal rescues for exactly this reason with a few exceptions.  Haiti has been one of those exceptions.

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## Lovecraftian4Paul

Again, we are helping out foreigners before our own people. Where is the media frenzy and outcry for volunteers and money to clean up all the little Haitis inside our own nation? There are parts of Detroit and other major cities that are just as bad, if not worse than Haiti.

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## Zippyjuan

They only have an unemployment rate of 50- 70% and 80% of the population living below what is considered the poverty line.  In 2008 they got hit four times by hurricanes. Banks constantly fail.  Yes, it is a mess.  Even before the quake.   https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ha.html

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## LibertyMage

Great post!

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## Toureg89

> Would YOU give more? When you received your George Bush tax cut did you increase your charitable giving?


i actually probably make less than 2-3K$ any given year (full time student). 

but every year, i give atleast 50-100 hours of community service to a local PD. add up the hours of the other dozen or so volunteers, and the PD says about 120K$-140K$ a year. 

and if you they save money, the local tax payers who pay for their budget are saved money. 

and if local tax payers are saved money, maybe thats money that is being donated to emergencies. 

charity is not only given in the form of money, but time and effort, as well.

and perhaps "trickle down" theory works for physical and monetary forms of charity.

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## anaconda

Great and relevant post.

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## jackers

Duplicate post

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## MattRay

This is why I love this forum. I came across this in Larry McDonald's book on the Constitution, I look it up and sure enough, this forum comes up on page 1. Sadly, when I bring this up in arguments over Syrian Refugees, people are dumbfounded. It's as if they've never thought about considering whether something is constitutional or not. Everyone is so conditioned to believe the argument about refugees, "humanitarian" aid etc. is just about terrorism concerns or so-called compassion.

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