# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  What happened to the over 22000 identified caucus voters for Paul in Nevada?

## Sean

What happened to the over 22000 identified caucus voters for Paul in Nevada? We were told that Ron Paul had more voters that Romney did in 2008. It looks like someone was blowing smoke up our you know what.

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## trey4sports

a lot of the ID's came when Paul had a lot of momentum (pre-Iowa) but now that his momentum is dry those soft ID's are staying home.

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## RDM

NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!

There are tons of threads trying to address this issue, but it's being ignored. Why? Because the guilty ones are on this forum and they're ashamed of themselves.

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## anewvoice

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!
> 
> There are tons of threads trying to address this issue, but it's being ignored. Why? Because the guilty ones are on this forum and they're ashamed of themselves.


Proposed solution?

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## Sean

If I estimate the final vote tally that means we lost over 16000 soft voters and maybe only held onto 6000 people. I was never to hopefully about Nevada because of all the Mormon voters, but the campaign has to have better GOTV in upcoming caucus states.

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## opinionatedfool

They are "recounting" the vote now, so probably some of those 22,000 are getting thrown out as I write this.

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## Sean

> Proposed solution?


I don't have inside information on what is being done, but there should be a contact with every single precinct. Make someone who is enthusiastic about the Paul  campaign precinct captain. Give them the information and put them in touch with those identified Paul voters. Have the precinct captains do the GOTV on election day. Setup car pools ect. I think sometimes people don't want to do things alone. If they get to know someone in the area that is also going they will be more willingly to show up.

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## gerryb

> I don't have inside information on what is being done, but there should be a contact with every single precinct. Make someone who is enthusiastic about the Paul  campaign precinct captain. Give them the information and put them in touch with those identified Paul voters. Have the precinct captains do the GOTV on election day. Setup car pools ect. I think sometimes people don't want to do things alone. If they get to know someone in the area that is also going they will be more willingly to show up.


This.  The campaign doesn't have the resources to do this in each state..  We must do it ourselves.  Build your local organization, win GOP committee spots, and GOTV on election days.


P.S. -  from what i've seen the campaign is doing this, just not enough willing participants.

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## maxoutco

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!
> 
> There are tons of threads trying to address this issue, but it's being ignored. Why? Because the guilty ones are on this forum and they're ashamed of themselves.


Buddy System with an Oath for that person to GOTV and GOTV for their buddy.

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## ross11988

Same thing that happened the 30,000 ID'd in Iowa

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## RDM

> Proposed solution?


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-voting-booths.

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## swiss_supporter

> Proposed solution?


After Caucus-Party or barbecue or whatever. This would help IMHO...

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## ross11988

> After Caucus-Party or barbecue or whatever. This would help IMHO...


Whens theres thousands of caucus's all over a whole state thats a unrealistic idea.

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## swiss_supporter

> Whens theres thousands of caucus's all over a whole state thats a unrealistic idea.


Yeah, that's true. But you have to be creative. Maybe the local meetup-groups could organize something (barbecue). But it is hard to get people out of bed on a Saturda morning...

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## gerryb

> Yeah, that's true. But you have to be creative. Maybe the local meetup-groups could organize something (barbecue). But it is hard to get people out of bed on a Saturda morning...


It should be each individual supporter.

Being a precinct captain.  IDing your local community support, and getting them out to vote.

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## nyrgoal99

Phone from Home did not do an aggressive GOTV for NV

Period

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## ironj221

The late night caucus proves that we need better GOTV.  If so many people showed up for Ron Paul at 7pm, why didn't they show up at 9am like they should have? 

I'd bet only a few were because of religion.

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## lib3rtarian

The truth is that we think too much of ourselves - "Ron Paul supporters will walk on broken glass to vote for him" etc. - and bask in that glory. The truth is that we are a VERY small minority nationwide and like every candidate, we have a lot of soft support too. Paul doesn't articulate his views well in debates or even in interviews. He stutters, stumbles and rambles on, possibly due to his age. He was very vibrant in his old videos, so this was not always the case. Paul and his campaign also does not address the foreign policy issue very convincingly to turn out undecided minds. We are living in a fantasy land. I'll still continue to support Paul, but his chances are dwindling far more than Newt's.

It's probably too late for any short term solutions for this. The long term solution to this is to continue to speak to as many people as possible to convert them, and to enter the political process ourselves. Whether it be the Republican party or the Democratic party, take your pick and start being active from the ground up. Help change the party platform to prioritize liberty and abide by the Constitution. This is the only way we will set the ground for Rand to run in 2016 and win.

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## neverseen

The problem is that the establishment candidates have voters.  No matter what, voters vote.  Doesn't matter who they are voting for, they just do it because they have to.

Ron Paul does not have voters.  He has supporters.  Supporters support.  Support does not translate into votes.  

The bottom line is that we are not winning the establishment voters over.  Newt and Romney are.  They could effectively stop campaigning nation wide and still get 70% of the vote in every state.  The media controls the voters.  Its nice to see we have a built in 20% or so that will vote for paul out of his supporter base, but it will not go much higher until we can turn out the old people.  This is what happens when you try to create new voters out of thin air (the kids).  They don't show, they forget, etc.  Keep in mind that the level of support the people on this forum have is NOT indicative of typical Ron Paul support.  Every supporter is not like the members here.  I managed to many of my family members and friends to vote, but other than my mom, not a single one was willing to help canvass, sign wave, call, etc.  Out of 25 people, only 1 went above and beyond.

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## Muttley

I'm really starting to think that some bull$#@! is going on behind the scenes.  The vote is now being recounted where 68% of the electorate is located and I really think of those 22,000 Paul identified voters, having less then 25% of that number show up smells wrong.  I agree that the Paul supporters walking on broken glass meme gets blown a little out of proportion, but 25%?  I'm not buying it!

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## CTRattlesnake

> I'm really starting to think that some bull$#@! is going on behind the scenes.  The vote is now being recounted where 68% of the electorate is located and I really think of those 22,000 voters, and having less then 25% of that number show up, something smells wrong.  I agree that the Paul supporters walking on broken glass meme gets blown a little out of proportion, but 25%?  I'm not buying it!


With 75% of the results in, barely 22,000 people have voted. Not sure where the campaign got that number

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## tbone717

> Phone from Home did not do an aggressive GOTV for NV
> 
> Period


Agreed.  And I cannot understand why this happened.  We have been doing PFH for NV for months right?  Thousands of man hours for what could be a third place finish and at best we squeak by and take 2nd.  I have been a big supporter of PFH, but I have to call the operation of it into question if it is not producing its intended goal.

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## RonPaul101.com

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!
> 
> There are tons of threads trying to address this issue, but it's being ignored. Why? Because the guilty ones are on this forum and they're ashamed of themselves.


THIS. It's hard to believe but I have seen a couple of these. A guy I know in Iowa, a huge Ron Paul guy, stayed home because he was tired and his "one vote didn't matter at that much in the end."

We need to stop this false reasoning. How can anyone spend this much time following this movement and this campaign and not vote. I live in NJ, a state that is winner take all and will likely not matter in the least and i WILL NOT miss my chance to actually cast my vote.

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## vita3

Of course calling people on a telephone doesn't equate to actual votes on the ground.

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## ironj221

> With 75% of the results in, barely 22,000 people have voted. Not sure where the campaign got that number


I thought the number was just a rumor?

If not, it means that a lot of our support stayed home :/

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## KingNothing

> What happened to the over 22000 identified caucus voters for Paul in Nevada? We were told that Ron Paul had more voters that Romney did in 2008. It looks like someone was blowing smoke up our you know what.


Realistically, there was absolutely no chance of turning out 22,000 voters to the caucus.  That's a pipe dream.  Paul only pulled in 6,000 votes in Nevada in 2008.

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## Nate

> The problem is that the establishment candidates have voters.  No matter what, voters vote.  Doesn't matter who they are voting for, they just do it because they have to.
> 
> Ron Paul does not have voters.  He has supporters.  Supporters support.  Support does not translate into votes.  
> 
> The bottom line is that we are not winning the establishment voters over.  Newt and Romney are.  They could effectively stop campaigning nation wide and still get 70% of the vote in every state.  The media controls the voters.  Its nice to see we have a built in 20% or so that will vote for paul out of his supporter base, but it will not go much higher until we can turn out the old people.  This is what happens when you try to create new voters out of thin air (the kids).  They don't show, they forget, etc.  Keep in mind that the level of support the people on this forum have is NOT indicative of typical Ron Paul support.  Every supporter is not like the members here.  I managed to many of my family members and friends to vote, but other than my mom, not a single one was willing to help canvass, sign wave, call, etc.  Out of 25 people, only 1 went above and beyond.


+rep
The simple fact is that the brainwashed establishment voters who voted the psychopaths currently running this country into office & destroyed this country are still voting in large numbers. People need to stop complaining & blaming Paul supporters for not having a 100% voter turnout & start laying the blame squarely on the shoulders of those whom deserve it, the typical GOP establishment voter. Anyone who votes for Newt, Frothy or Mittens deserves EXACTLY what they are going to get, a totalitarian society. I just hate it that those of us who don't deserve it are going to get it too.

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## justatrey

In general, young people don't show up to vote; they never have and they never will!

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## neverseen

> Anyone who votes for Newt, Frothy or Mittens deserves EXACTLY what they are going to get, a totalitarian society. I just hate it that those of us who don't deserve it are going to get it too.





> Robert Kiyosaki, author of the popular Rich Dad series of books, was on GBTV yesterday. He is the second person I have heard lately that says now is a great time for rich people to make a lot of money. But he also believes we are probably headed for total collapse. Collapse as in big cities facing cannibalism. He recommends the "5 Gs" just in case things deteriorate so badly that anarchy is the law of the land: Gold, Ground, Gasoline, Grub, and Guns. "Ground" meaning owning your home outright.


Just have more than the other guy

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## TNforPaul45

There are only three things that will ever motivate someone, truly, to go to the polls and vote: Hunger, Pain, and the fear of either of those two happening.

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## neverseen

> In general, young people don't show up to vote; they never have and they never will!


My lil bro and his gf are both 22 and I had to call him starting at 5:30pm every 15 minutes until he cast his vote at 6:45pm when the poll closes at 7pm here.  That's the kind of push younger guys need.

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## KenInMontiMN

Curious why Clark County is still just 50% reported this morning while the rest of the state is 100% in. I do seem to remember something similar 4 years ago, though.

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## Ronulus

> Curious why Clark County is still just 50% reported this morning while the rest of the state is 100% in. I do seem to remember something similar 4 years ago, though.


Recount and perhaps voter fraud, they are thinking of throwing out many of those precincts because of poor management and they didn't get people to sign in etc.

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## opinionatedfool

For all other states, if you know anyone who is a younger voter, do what @neverseen did. Be ruthless about getting them out to vote!

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## libertyman

What is the grassroots were to organize a state by state sworn affidavit of vote for Ron Paul to match it up against the reported totals of the vote. If enough people participate in this it would make for an illuminating picture of the real vote count.

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## HeyArchie

Maybe they've seen the results of all of the states so far.

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## Hitman83

I possibly have a busy day at work on Super Tuesday, but if I can get that day off, I will help with my area for GOTV by driving people to the polls.  How do I identify more supporters in my area, because it's been worse than pulling teeth to find people (Chattanooga, TN)?  We're a primary state, so I don't know if my efforts will be as noticable as they would in a caucus state.

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## tbone717

> I possibly have a busy day at work on Super Tuesday, but if I can get that day off, I will help with my area for GOTV by driving people to the polls.  How do I identify more supporters in my area, because it's been worse than pulling teeth to find people (Chattanooga, TN)?  We're a primary state, so I don't know if my efforts will be as noticable as they would in a caucus state.


Contact the campaign and sign up to volunteer.  It is far better to work with a coordinated effort rather than attempt to do something on your own, especially if you have never done this before.

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## neverseen

> What is the grassroots were to organize a state by state sworn affidavit of vote for Ron Paul to match it up against the reported totals of the vote. If enough people participate in this it would make for an illuminating picture of the real vote count.


If we can't turn it out once in an election cycle, what makes you think twice is possible?  For example, my group in my county had less than 100 people in it.  By some crazy occurrence over 10,000 voted in my county for Ron Paul.  I have no idea who those people were or where they came from.  How would 100 people signing a pledge account for the 10,000 that voted?  

Oh, and of those 100 people I think 5 are on the forum.  The forum is not representative of actual Ron Paul support.  It's the extremist wing of his support.  There is no denying that.

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## RDM

> For all other states, if you know anyone who is a younger voter, do what @neverseen did. Be ruthless about getting them out to vote!


I would go one step further and go pick them up and personally take them to the voting booth. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-voting-booths.

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## Feeding the Abscess

Bachmann allegedly had more ID'd voters than Huckabee did when he won the caucus. We all know how that turned out.

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## walt

> What happened to the over 22000 identified caucus voters for Paul in Nevada? We were told that Ron Paul had more voters that Romney did in 2008. It looks like someone was blowing smoke up our you know what.


what happened is we have an incompetent campaign manger incapable of executing that needs replacing ASAP. Make all the conspiracy theories about vote fraud you want, it appears the reality is Ron Paul had less votes in many parts of the state than 2008. Most likely due to wasting money on teh big campaign and the grassroots being treated like they don't matter and doing less in certain areas.

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## FCArchitect

Where in NJ are you? Im in sparta? Does the paul campain have all the signatures it needs? I am ready to sign on the dotted line!

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## TNforPaul45

This needs to be our main message in the ramp up to Super Tuesday: We have a turnout problem. We need to instill a notion of urgency and importance in the fact that Super Tuesday is going to be our last chance to win enough delegates to have any sort of impact on the Convention (Think: 'Broker').

All these supporters we have won over, and their enthusiasm, will be for nothing if they do not move heaven and earth to vote.

Start emailing all supporters on your list. Every contact, every friend, every FB buddy: Go Vote on Super Tuesday! Go Vote On Super Tuesday!

(and on Feb 7 for that matter)

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## Sematary

Vote by age:
18 - 29 8%
30 - 44 15%

There's your problem

Oh, and for whatever reason - old people don't vote for him

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## Ronulus

> what happened is we have an incompetent campaign manger incapable of executing that needs replacing ASAP. Make all the conspiracy theories about vote fraud you want, it appears the reality is Ron Paul had less votes in many parts of the state than 2008. Most likely due to wasting money on teh big campaign and the grassroots being treated like they don't matter and doing less in certain areas.


It's also possible that with the economy in NV being worse than many parts of the country they moved to another state for work?

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## walt

> Vote by age:
> 18 - 29 8%
> 30 - 44 15%
> 
> There's your problem
> 
> Oh, and for whatever reason - old people don't vote for him



Yes, the campaign has foolishly spent it's resources on the wrong demographics...that is why old people don't vote for him.

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## walt

> It's also possible that with the economy in NV being worse than many parts of the country they moved to another state for work?


Sure. It's also possible that the sun will rise in the west. 

Bottom line is this, if Ron Paul does well in Minnesota, it's 110% due to help from Jesse Ventura's machine, not anything this campaign manager did.

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## justatrey

Old people don't vote for Paul because they watch a lot of TV and the TV tells them not to vote for him. I really think it's as simple as that.

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## neverseen

> what happened is we have an incompetent campaign manger incapable of executing that needs replacing ASAP. Make all the conspiracy theories about vote fraud you want, it appears the reality is Ron Paul had less votes in many parts of the state than 2008. Most likely due to wasting money on teh big campaign and the grassroots being treated like they don't matter and doing less in certain areas.


Or the soft support which makes up the majority of actual ron paul votes decided to stay home because they believe fox news about ron paul's chances and/or they voted for romney to spite newt because they want an R in the white house.  Ron Paul's support is not walk on glass strong as the forum thinks it is.  This forum is the minority of the supporters for ron paul.  Most ron paul supporters sit at home watching news.  They don't phone from home, canvass, sign wave, etc. 

This just proves that its time to get off our high horse of "hope for that snow storm" BS snow storms will keep paul supporters in the house just like all the others.  And yes, i could even see myself oversleeping on a 9am caucus time and flipping out when i got there at 10am.  of course i'd have a pot of water rigged above my head so when my alarm clock goes off the pot dumps on me but still...

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## newbitech

> Proposed solution?


not waiting until election day, election week, election month, or election year to start organizing.  For starters.

A much more visible presence for leadership including permanent liberty offices in communities all over the united states.

activities that are focused on helping people and doing things that people need rather than simply focused on politics.

It's a tough thing to realize that as an individual, I have more important things to do than be active in the political process.  

It's a tough thing to realize that the money and time I have spent could be better spent doing the things I mentioned rather than sending it off to an anonymous national account with the blessing to do with it what you please or use me how you want me to be used.  

There is no strategy coming down from leadership and permeating the grassroots.  It has been an every man for yourself type campaign the last 4 years.  The only thing that I can point to that has even come close to a solution from the campaign is the phone from home program.  This gave people something to do, but unfortunately, I felt this was a misdirected effort to be calling people in other states.  It was quite the overkill IMO and gave people the sense of participating but also had no way for those people to measure their effectiveness.  

Think about it.  40 states calling the other 10 states?  Imagine if 1% of people in Florida called Iowa for Ron Paul.  116k votes in Florida, 1,160 callers.  How many calls from Florida to reach Iowa's 122k voters?  That's like 100 calls each.  

To me that's over kill, but it made people from other states feel like they were doing something.  What of the effort over the last 4 years?  This type of reach out should have been happening locally over the last 4 years instead of waiting for a big nation wide blitz at the final hour.  

It's easy to sit back and see where things went wrong.  I'd love to have had these ideas 4 years ago when the campaign ended, but to be honest and I feel most of Ron Paul supporters are in the same boat, I thought the leadership would materialize and I followed the path of the Campaign for Liberty.  That 4 million left over to start the Campaign for liberty, where are they at?  

The Campaign for Liberty should have offices opened up, physical locations in population centers where people can go to volunteer etc.  We shouldn't have to go to hotels and rent office space at the last minute for campaigning activities.  

Oh I understand, we have to skirt laws etc because of campaign rules, but that is on the national campaign to figure out.  

Bah, I could go on and on.

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## tbone717

> Old people don't vote for Paul because they watch a lot of TV and the TV tells them not to vote for him. I really think it's as simple as that.


But we knew that going into this.  The way you win is overcoming the ingrained perception, not blaming your failures on it.

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## Edward

> What happened to the over *22000* identified caucus voters for Paul in Nevada?


Misinformation routinely spreads like wildfire around RPF. Does someone have a source for this number?

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## KenInMontiMN

The thing to bear in mind with the non-binding caucus states is this: the straw poll indicates little other than the degree of growth of general Paul support in that state among caucus-goers, who are and will always be a very small percentage of the overall voting-age population. It does not indicate who got elected forward as delegates or alternates to the next convention level, and the dust doesn't settle on the nat. delegate selection process until the state convention.

All-in-all though, the caucus process is vastly superior to the primary, especially the winner-take-all primaries. The primary election absolutely assures mass-media control of outcomes; non-establishment candidates generally fare much better in their worst caucus straw poll showings than they do in their very best primary showings. Change requires that primary-state grassroots continue to take control of their local parties and push for a return to the non-binding caucus. Change takes time and patience, but all results so far show it is occurring, certainly too gradual but happening.

In MN in '08 15.x% at the caucus straw poll meant ~40% at the state convention. Keep up the fight, Nevada, caucus straw polls are simply the opening bell of a multi-round fight.

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## ironj221

> Old people don't vote for Paul because they watch a lot of TV and the TV tells them not to vote for him. I really think it's as simple as that.


This.

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## tbone717

> Or the soft support which makes up the majority of actual ron paul votes decided to stay home because they believe fox news about ron paul's chances and/or they voted for romney to spite newt because they want an R in the white house.


Soft support votes based upon perceived viability, not principle.  Paul was in last place among the 23% of NV voters that decided "in the last few days".  When you have pitiful showings in the two contests leading up to NV, you cannot expect soft support to go for him.  

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I am beginning to think spending very little on SC and skipping FL because of the "delegate strategy" may turn out to be the downfall of the campaign.  I hope I am wrong and they can turn it around with the next three states, but I am not as optimistic as I once was.

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## Hitman83

> Vote by age:
> 18 - 29 8%
> 30 - 44 15%
> 
> There's your problem
> 
> Oh, and for whatever reason - old people don't vote for him


Old people rely on tv news and newspaper to get information about the candidates.  One solution to that was mailings, but my opinion on why that didn't work is that the people see a mailing from someone NOT in the news and assume it's a third party or non-factor candidate and throw it away.  We really need the news media if we can't knock on every door.  Physically talking to someone about Ron Paul is going to be the only sure way to get older people (50+ because my parents wouldn't give RP the time of day until I debated them for 2 hours) to give him the realistic shot he deserves.

Younger people have tons of alternative news so they find RP stuff, and really old people (70+) generally consider all viable candidates.  We have to make the really old people realize that RP is actually in this race and can win.  That leaves baby-boomers and the generation quickly following them...I have had the most trouble getting those people to understand Ron Paul's views.  I think this is actually where the race is won and lost.

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## RufusTDoofus

I have no idea how the campaign was identifying voters here in Maine for our caucuses.  A RP2012 representative was present at our caucus yesterday and had a list of people they had allegedly identified as candidates for the State Convention that were RP supporters.  There were 4 names on the list from our small town.  Two of the names were me and my wife.  The other two were people that I know but were not present at the caucus.  So I called each of these other two to see if they indeed were interested in being delegates to the State convention.  Each of them declined politely and asked something to the effect of "why do you think I support Ron Paul?"  Both claimed to be on the  campaign's mailing list but had never had any direct contact with the campaign.

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## tbone717

> Misinformation routinely spreads like wildfire around RPF. Does someone have a source for this number?


It came from the NV campaign chair if I am not mistaken.  There was a thread on it yesterday.

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## Edward

> It came from the NV campaign chair if I am not mistaken.  There was a thread on it yesterday.


If you or someone else has it, a link would be great.

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## LibertyEagle

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!


This.

A whole lot of our supporters didn't show up, apparently.  They went to the rally, got their picture taken with Paul and called it done.  We need to figure out really quickly how to encourage them to actually go vote.

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## tbone717

> This.
> 
> A whole lot of our supporters didn't show up, apparently.  They went to the rally, got their picture taken with Paul and called it done.  We need to figure out really quickly how to encourage them to actually go vote.


That or start marketing the candidate to the people that actually do vote.  I would venture to guess that Paul leads all the other candidates among those who do not vote, which is about as helpful as winning a straw poll of elementary school students.

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## WilliamShrugged

I personally know of someone that likes Ron Paul and was going to vote for him. I text her at 1 (12 her time) to see if she went. She asked me when does it start. I told to go and see if she still can vote. She replied, "oh ok lol". I was pissed!!! I wonder if this is the problem. People were going to vote, but still don't understand the caucus process and when it starts. When i went to the caucus in Fallon in 08 to vote it was a mess. Badly organized, it ended up being a timed primary.

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## tbone717

> I personally know of someone that likes Ron Paul and was going to vote for him. I text her at 1 (12 her time) to see if she went. She asked me when does it start. I told to go and see if she still can vote. She replied, "oh ok lol". I was pissed!!! I wonder if this is the problem. People were going to vote, but still don't understand the caucus process and when it starts. When i went to the caucus in Fallon in 08 to vote it was a mess. Badly organized, it ended up being a timed primary.


You made my point here William.  We spend all this time marketing Paul on FB, Twitter, blogs, etc to people that do not vote.  And then we sit here and lament that we cannot GOTV of the 18-29 crowd when historically they do not vote in great numbers.  Just because someone likes Paul and his message does not translate into them doing something that they do not normally do.  Sure we may get the occasional person that is so jacked up about Paul that they vote for the first time, but that is the minority.  

I equate a lot of this to sales, because I have been in sales for over 25 years.  One of the first rules of sales is to identify your potential buyers.  You can pitch a product until you are blue in the face, but if the person listening to you does not have the authority to purchase products for their company then you are wasting your time.  This is why this mass marketing of Paul via social media, etc is not getting us any victories - we are selling a candidate to people that do not vote.

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## RDM

> I personally know of someone that likes Ron Paul and was going to vote for him. I text her at 1 (12 her time) to see if she went. She asked me when does it start. I told to go and see if she still can vote. She replied, "oh ok lol". I was pissed!!! I wonder if this is the problem. People were going to vote, but still don't understand the caucus process and when it starts. When i went to the caucus in Fallon in 08 to vote it was a mess. Badly organized, it ended up being a timed primary.


Well if people would follow my suggestions I have laid out in this thread, this problem could be nipped in the bud. But my thread is being ignored.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-voting-booths.

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## mavtek

Lets pay these people to caucus, I mean think about it, pay them $20 to go Caucus. Additional 5,000 votes in NV would've cost $100,000 which is way less money than the campaign spent. It would have given us either the win or a very close 2nd place. Bus em out too, rent 50 buses, another $10k. Very worth it.

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## milo10

> Lets pay these people to caucus, I mean think about it, pay them $20 to go Caucus. Additional 5,000 votes in NV would've cost $100,000 which is way less money than the campaign spent. It would have given us either the win or a very close 2nd place. Bus em out too, rent 50 buses, another $10k. Very worth it.


I'm sure that is very illegal.

----------


## justatrey

Everything is speculation at this point, but something very unusual must have happened for Paul to not at least be getting the 6,000 votes he got in 2008 when he has done much better so far in every state. I can't wait to hear from the campaign about it. 

I'm trying really hard not to be a conspiracy nut, but damn they really make it hard on us with the reports of the mess still unfolding in Clark County. We really need an update from the campaign.

----------


## MozoVote

One thing Romney's campaign has been very thorough about, is staying in touch with people who voted for him 4 years ago and nudging them back to the polls again. Romney is not getting impressive vote counts, but he is getting consistent turnout.

----------


## Todd

> Proposed solution?


mind control?

----------


## mavtek

> I'm sure that is very illegal.


Sure it's illegal for the campaign to do it, but for you and I? What's the difference between buying them dinner and giving them $20?

----------


## RDM

> One thing Romney's campaign has been very thorough about, is staying in touch with people who voted for him 4 years ago and nudging them back to the polls again. Romney is not getting impressive vote counts, but he is getting consistent turnout.


You are absolutely correct. The ostriches on this forum do not want to address the real problem. They would rather just throw out accusations of voter fraud...it's much easier.

----------


## bcreps85

> You are absolutely correct. The ostriches on this forum do not want to address the real problem. They would rather just throw out accusations of voter fraud...it's much easier.


The "problem" is that people can't make an informed decision to vote for Ron Paul unless they hear about him and his stances in an accurate and unbiased fashion.  Those who get that message vote for him more than any other candidate, which is why he wins on the internet...those are the only people getting his message.  Internet users do not make up the majority of voters though.

Everyone is working hard, but it is the MSM that is killing us...1% coverage going into the FL Primary, a virtual blackout.  Someone with Romney's financial resources might be able to buy up the time to overcome that, but we can't.  With exception to the informed baby boomers voting responsibly, the generation that has been screwing this country over for years is still at it...

----------


## FSP-Rebel

I'm kind of wondering what's been going on at the NV hq the past week. Was there any coordinated GOTV with volunteers or was it a come to the RP rally sort of thing? I noted back in IA that staffers would be on hand at rallies and such to collect voter info from prospects and then get back with them in some way as the caucus approached. At least in IA our turnout rate was around 66%, far higher than in NV. I think if RP was going to skip FL as he did, he should of spent more time in NV and used more of the money for staff and GOTV than on tv ads. 

This rather mediocre performance was in some part due to the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the local state campaign coord. That person is who directs the volunteers to turn out the vote in all manners required. Sure hope the campaign realizes what went wrong yesterday and refers those issues to the other caucus coords to ensure that everything goes smoother and success is better achieved. Also, it's all well and good for Paul to get his cheers at the rallies but he has to wrap it up by mentioning that he needs all of their support on X day and @ X time. Again, maybe even getting back to having staff pass around signup sheets as people come in.

----------


## tbone717

> The "problem" is that people can't make an informed decision to vote for Ron Paul unless they hear about him and his stances in an accurate and unbiased fashion.  Those who get that message vote for him more than any other candidate, which is why he wins on the internet...those are the only people getting his message.  Internet users do not make up the majority of voters though.


I am not sure if it is this thread where I addressed this or elsewhere but this is a big part of our problem.  We are selling Ron Paul to people that do not vote.  So not only do we have to convince them to support Paul, we have to convince them to vote as well.  Effectively we have to make two closes as opposed to one.  

In my business, I sell promotional products.  Those are custom imprinted items like pens, coffee cups, magnets, etc.  Literally, every *type* of business (from corner pizza shops to Fortune 500 companies) buys these products, but that does not mean that every* individual* business buys these products.  One of the very first questions I ask on a cold call is for the potential customer to tell me what types of products they are currently purchasing.  If they say that they do not buy promotional products, I pretty much end the sales call, leave some info and go on my way.  While I can spend time convincing the person the benefits of using promotional products for their business, my time is better spent by finding people that actually do buy the products I sell. 

This is a good metaphor with what we do as the grassroots.  We spend all this time, money and energy selling a candidate to people that do not vote, when our time should be spent on finding the people that do vote and convincing them to vote for our guy.

----------


## Birdlady

Yep it is true that RP supporters don't go out and vote. We can blame women, old people or the campaign, but we need to take responsibility for ourselves here. If you are reading this and don't know where you are supposed to vote in your upcoming primary/caucus, then do your homework now. I guess we need to start focusing on this more because it seems a lot of people don't know when or how they are supposed to vote. Well sadly we have no one to blame but ourselves. Sure you can sign wave and get all excited, talk up a good game, but why spend all of that time if you don't intend to follow through? If you think your 1 vote doesn't matter, look at Storey County in NV. I have to assume that a lot of ppl are intimidated by the process and just stay home so they don't have to be out of their comfort zone. We tend to be the socially awkward types.

----------


## Sean

> The "problem" is that people can't make an informed decision to vote for Ron Paul unless they hear about him and his stances in an accurate and unbiased fashion.  Those who get that message vote for him more than any other candidate, which is why he wins on the internet...those are the only people getting his message.  Internet users do not make up the majority of voters though.
> 
> Everyone is working hard, but it is the MSM that is killing us...1% coverage going into the FL Primary, a virtual blackout.  Someone with Romney's financial resources might be able to buy up the time to overcome that, but we can't.  With exception to the informed baby boomers voting responsibly, the generation that has been screwing this country over for years is still at it...


Ron Paul raised 13 million last quarter. Yet I see reports of the campaign making ad buys at less than 250k total for a state. We can't save our money for later campaigns because if you don't win anything early you are not going to win. The campaign is running out of time. We need to win Maine and Minnesota.

----------


## tbone717

> We tend to be the socially awkward types.


That would apply primarily to the people that live their lives online, which seem to be the recipient of a lot of our marketing efforts.

Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  If we continue to think that Paul is going to win the nomination because that really cool video we have up on YouTube got 100,000 views, or because he surged in Facebook "likes" then we being delusional.  

It is high time that many of us need to change what we are doing.

----------


## JimInNY

I think the biggest problem is we speak to the choir most of the time.

When is RP going to hold some REAL town halls? And when are we, the RP supporters going to stop filling the halls with the choir?

Every video I see of an RP campaign speech shows RP speaking to a packed house of loud rowdy RP supporters. We already have their vote. I want to see a room half full of quiet old folks who have come to find out what this unusual candidate actual stands for and how he is going to save America.

And I think the campaign needs one or more grassroots liaisons to keep their finger on our pulse. There should be a campaign rep on this forum all the time, talking to us, getting feedback, etc. One guy could probably keep tabs on everything the grassroots is doing and saying on the internet, and see to it that RP gets that info in a timely way.

----------


## RDM

> Yep it is true that RP supporters don't go out and vote. We can blame women, old people or the campaign, but we need to take responsibility for ourselves here. If you are reading this and don't know where you are supposed to vote in your upcoming primary/caucus, then do your homework now. I guess we need to start focusing on this more because it seems a lot of people don't know when or how they are supposed to vote. Well sadly we have no one to blame but ourselves. Sure you can sign wave and get all excited, talk up a good game, but why spend all of that time if you don't intend to follow through? If you think your 1 vote doesn't matter, look at Storey County in NV. I have to assume that a lot of ppl are intimidated by the process and just stay home so they don't have to be out of their comfort zone. We tend to be the socially awkward types.


+Rep    I wish I could double Rep. You hit the nail right on the head.

----------


## tsai3904

> I possibly have a busy day at work on Super Tuesday, but if I can get that day off, I will help with my area for GOTV by driving people to the polls.  How do I identify more supporters in my area, because it's been worse than pulling teeth to find people (Chattanooga, TN)?  We're a primary state, so I don't know if my efforts will be as noticable as they would in a caucus state.


EARLY VOTING

Tennessee has early voting from February 15 to March 1.  You don't need to do everything on Super Tuesday.  Look for supporters during the early voting period and offer to take them to the polls.  The voting location will be at your County Election Commissions office (locations here).


We need to utilize early voting and it's been discussed before but there hasn't been any plans of action.

Early voting has begun in Arizona, Ohio and Vermont.  Ohio and Vermont are OPEN states so we can convince anyone to vote for Ron Paul and take them to the polls the same day.

See this thread for more info:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ote-Guaranteed

----------


## craezie

Look at the demographics that we win big with -- young, poor, and male.  That is a triple whammy against dependability.

----------


## dusman

http://www.nationbuilder.com...

----------


## Ekrub

Maybe we should use the state forums here a little more and focus on each individual state and keep a tally/poll on each caucus primary of people here + friends or family people know are going to vote Paul. Then keep focus on IDing Paul supporters through Facebook and meetup and get them to sign up here to affirm their support. Maybe a silly idea, but I think the responsibility of GOTV is on us, the grassroots. We need to do something.

----------


## tbone717

> Maybe we should use the state forums here a little more and focus on each individual state and keep a tally/poll on each caucus primary of people here + friends or family people know are going to vote Paul. Then keep focus on IDing Paul supporters through Facebook and meetup and get them to sign up here to affirm their support. Maybe a silly idea, but I think the responsibility of GOTV is on us, the grassroots. We need to do something.


Nice thought, but GOTV is something that needs to be done by the campaign.  They are doing the voter ID work and need to be making the proper follow up calls.  The percentage of people on RPF and even on FB groups and such is a very small percentage of the actual turnout.

----------


## RDM

> Maybe we should use the state forums here a little more and focus on each individual state and keep a tally/poll on each caucus primary of people here + friends or family people know are going to vote Paul. Then keep focus on IDing Paul supporters through Facebook and meetup and get them to sign up here to affirm their support. Maybe a silly idea, but I think the responsibility of GOTV is on us, the grassroots. We need to do something.


You're darn right the GOTV is a grassroots responsibility and everyone should take ownership. How hard is it to insure your circle of influence i.e. Mother, Father, brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, cousins, friends, co-workers know when to vote and PERSONALLY pick them up in your vehicle and drive them to the polls. Doing this alone will hugely increase the turnout.

----------


## Badger Paul

Truth be told, Nevada's demographics were roughly about the same as Florida (minus the Cuban vote). We were lucky to get near 20 percent of the vote. Old and white, that's why Gingrich did as well as he did.

There was a Nevadan on RPF (I think his name is BKom) who warned not to believe the media and popular myths about Nevada. Yes there are voters who independent and want to live free, have lots hookers and blow and certainly we carried our fair share. But the reality is the base GOP vote in Nevada is the same as it is in places like Arizona or Florida or many different places throughout the Sunbelt: Retirees, ex-military and intelligence, FBI, that sort of thing; transplanted Californian conservatives fleeing the state. And as he said, if came to an up and down vote many persons in the state (particularly GOP voters) would ban prostitution and medical marijuana. That's why Gingrich could blow off the governor, cancel appearances as such and still get over 20 percent, because all his jerk-off local backers like Chuck Muth and Sue Lowden had to do email their Tea Party lists, those people who voted for Sharon Angle, and these people showed up as a matter of habit. And there were enough of these to divide up with Rick Santorum, who also did nothing and still got over 10 percent. We don't have voters like that yet and we'll still finish around 20 percent. Maybe we should celebrate. 

Anyway the biggest disappointment is the Tea Party we helped to plant to seed for has given us bitter fruit when we tried to harvest it. They'd rather be against something than be for something, although what that is I haven't the foggiest clue, other than don't touch my social security, medicare or government pension and the U.S. can afford this and have 900 military bases arounf the world. *And also in reality, people vote for candidates, not causes, especially when it's for president*. A candidate who is not the best at what he does is not going to win a lot of votes. So in a race where a large group of voters don't want a message other than "We oppose" and where they're looking for the best politician, Ron Paul is going to be at a big disadvantage.

----------


## sailingaway

pollsters were saying all week Ron was in FOURTH.  A bunch probably stayed home or 'tried to make a difference' with a different vote based just on that alone.

gingrich did as well as he did because his billionaire backer has HUGE organization there, think Daleys in Chicago.  (well, maybe not quite, but of that sort of strength.  He has his niche of the community locked down.)

----------


## Ekrub

> Nice thought, but GOTV is something that needs to be done by the campaign.  They are doing the voter ID work and need to be making the proper follow up calls.  The percentage of people on RPF and even on FB groups and such is a very small percentage of the actual turnout.


Okay, well even if that's the case, then the campaign isn't doing a good job so let's step up. A few ten-twenty thousand people on RPF can network out and turn that into 100,000. Even if that's a few thousand votes per state maybe that's the difference between third and second. Or second and first. I'm not trying to say this is the best idea, but let's face it. We are at a disadvantage with money and media exposure. We need to step it up somehow. I think GOTV is something that we could have a small positive impact at here. We need to fight for that extra inch because that's the difference between winning and losing /pacino

----------


## tbone717

> Okay, well even if that's the case, then the campaign isn't doing a good job so let's step up. A few ten-twenty thousand people on RPF can network out and turn that into 100,000. Even if that's a few thousand votes per state maybe that's the difference between third and second. Or second and first. I'm not trying to say this is the best idea, but let's face it. We are at a disadvantage with money and media exposure. We need to step it up somehow. I think GOTV is something that we could have a small positive impact at here. We need to fight for that extra inch because that's the difference between winning and losing /pacino


Agreed.  Frankly I am very disappointed with PFH for NV.  We had been calling that state for months it seems, we should have been able to ID more 4600 voters (using the currently reported totals).  There were 1000's of man hours used in that effort and it fell way short of success.

----------


## Join The Paul Side

> I'm really starting to think that some bull$#@! is going on behind the scenes.  The vote is now being recounted where 68% of the electorate is located and I really think of those 22,000 Paul identified voters, having less then 25% of that number show up smells wrong.  I agree that the Paul supporters walking on broken glass meme gets blown a little out of proportion, but 25%?  I'm not buying it!


Nothing is going on behind the scenes. We are strong with the youth vote, Independents, crossover Democrats, and a small portion of registered Republicans. This is not enough to overcome Establishment voters. The campaign failed to expand into the Establishments voting block: Old people. They are the main ones that turn out to vote.

----------


## tbone717

> Nothing is going on behind the scenes. We are strong with the youth vote, Independents, crossover Democrats, and a small portion of registered Republicans. This is not enough to overcome Establishment voters. The campaign failed to expand into the Establishments voting block: Old people. They are the main ones that turn out to vote.


Right.

The thing that frustrates me is that we knew this going in.  Any one with a calculator can tell that you cannot win without getting a sizable percentage of typical GOP voters on your side.  I don't buy the "they don't vote for us because they are brainwashed neo-cons" crap.  They have voted for this message before.  Go out and pound home the buzzwords - limited government, lower taxes, personal responsibility, more jobs, more freedom, strong defense, etc.  GOP voters eat this up and they always have.

----------


## Texan4Life

> Old people don't vote for Paul because they watch a lot of TV and the TV tells them not to vote for him. I really think it's as simple as that.


huge +1

----------


## virgil47

> Old people don't vote for Paul because they watch a lot of TV and the TV tells them not to vote for him. I really think it's as simple as that.


Sorry but that is pure B.S. If the campaign aimed even just a few tv ads squarely at the 55 plus group they will respond. Ignoring the largest voter group in the country is the problem.

----------


## Hitman83

> EARLY VOTING
> 
> Tennessee has early voting from February 15 to March 1.


After I posted, I remembered this and I'm going to help people out more in early voting.  Doing what I can, but I need to find the folks that need motivating.  I've convinced 2 people who don't vote to go vote today.  I told them I will call everyday during early voting to make sure they remember.

----------


## eleganz

I was on the ground in Nevada and trust me when I say a lot of people who like him simply didn't turn out to vote and there are also a lot of independents and democrats who didn't get to register in time or didn't care to do it in time.

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## RDM

> I was on the ground in Nevada and trust me when I say a lot of people who like him simply didn't turn out to vote and there are also a lot of independents and democrats who didn't get to register in time or didn't care to do it in time.


Thanks for confirming what the numbers are telling us.

----------


## febo

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!


I simply don't believe you - it defies all logic.

----------


## RDM

> I simply don't believe you - it defies all logic.


Being a ostrich, you would.

----------


## febo

> Being a ostrich, you would.


You sound like a sock puppet - listen, you cannot be a Ron Paul supporter and not vote. If you don't vote you never were a Ron Paul supporter.

----------


## newbitech

> You sound like a sock puppet - listen, you cannot be a Ron Paul supporter and not vote. If you don't vote you never were a Ron Paul supporter.


Naive.

----------


## Mickeys

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious.


Those two statements are direct contradictions of each other. If they don't even bother to vote, then they CLEARLY are not the most vibrant. Voting is the EASIEST thing to do.

I think what you mean is, Ron Paul's followers are the most likely to talk on the internet. And for some asinine reason yuou seem to think that the internert is hte only...or even the best or most intelligent, way to show support. IT isn't. Using hte internet does not make you in ANY way better pr more intelligent than those who have ACUTAL LIVES and are rarely online. I hate to tell you...but NO ONE will ever say on their deathbed "I really wish I had spent MORE time on the internet, instead of doing things like have girlfriends, and interact socially with things other than pixels on the monitor."

Becuase that isn't a life at all. It is a waste of an existence.

----------


## RDM

> Those two statements are direct contradictions of each other. If they don't even bother to vote, then they CLEARLY are not the most vibrant. Voting is the EASIEST thing to do.
> 
> I think what you mean is, Ron Paul's followers are the most likely to talk on the internet. And for some asinine reason yuou seem to think that the internert is hte only...or even the best or most intelligent, way to show support. IT isn't. Using hte internet does not make you in ANY way better pr more intelligent than those who have ACUTAL LIVES and are rarely online. I hate to tell you...but NO ONE will ever say on their deathbed "I really wish I had spent MORE time on the internet, instead of doing things like have girlfriends, and interact socially with things other than pixels on the monitor."
> 
> Becuase that isn't a life at all. It is a waste of an existence.


No contradiction here. Tons of supporters go out and sign wave, attend the speeches, etc. But when it comes down to showing the "real" support and that means taking care of business as in "voting", they drop the ball.

----------


## RDM

> You sound like a sock puppet - listen, you cannot be a Ron Paul supporter and not vote. If you don't vote you never were a Ron Paul supporter.


Well obviously we have our share of people who think they are "real" supporters. So I guess our strong support base is not as strong as we think.

----------


## nano1895

RP should end every one of his speeches with "and now if we want real change every one of you should register to vote and vote in this upcoming primary/caucus!"

and have campaign staff members standing at the exit handing out caucus/primary literature/pamphlets

----------


## moonshine5757

this blew up in their face, they shouldn't brag about numbers when 16k didn't even bother to show up.

----------


## Edward

> this blew up in their face, they shouldn't brag about numbers when 16k didn't even bother to show up.


I'm still looking for the source of this mythical "22,000" figure. Anyone?

----------


## RDM

> I'm still looking for the source of this mythical "22,000" figure. Anyone?


There's still a few looking for it:

----------


## lnieves

> I'm still looking for the source of this mythical "22,000" figure. Anyone?


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-stand/252567/




> "We have more IDs than Romney had votes in '08," said Paul's state chairman, Carl Bunce, meaning identified supporters who have committed to attend Saturday's caucuses across the state. He wouldn't give a precise number, but Romney's 2008 vote total in his big Nevada win was 22,649.

----------


## moonshine5757

embarassing to say the least

----------


## Edward

> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-stand/252567/


Thanks for the link. I would love to see his comments in full context, but I suspect he was either mistaken or talking out his rear end.

----------


## Highstreet

> I have no idea how the campaign was identifying voters here in Maine for our caucuses.  A RP2012 representative was present at our caucus yesterday and had a list of people they had allegedly identified as candidates for the State Convention that were RP supporters.  There were 4 names on the list from our small town.  Two of the names were me and my wife.  The other two were people that I know but were not present at the caucus.  So I called each of these other two to see if they indeed were interested in being delegates to the State convention.  Each of them declined politely and asked something to the effect of "why do you think I support Ron Paul?"  Both claimed to be on the  campaign's mailing list but had never had any direct contact with the campaign.


This is interesting...how out of date are these lists?

----------


## newbitech

> Thanks for the link. I would love to see his comments in full context, but I suspect he was either mistaken or talking out his rear end.


with all the calling going on, I wouldn't be surprised if people were contacted and counted more than once in that database.  Or more than likely, the database count had some problems with dupes and had improper validation and or normalization. 

Also, there is/was plenty of hyping up of support, and probably lots of people who committed didn't show up, including the infamous youth vote.  Some combination of all these is the only way to over estimate by multiples.

----------


## gerryb

> This is interesting...how out of date are these lists?


It's not that the list is old -- it's that these folks gave bad info to the campaign.

It is just like when the Romney or Gingrich campaign calls you up because you signed up as a volunteer on their website in order to get their campaign e-mails and mailers.

You all did sign up on their websites, right?

----------


## KingNothing

> RP should end every one of his speeches with "and now if we want real change every one of you should register to vote and vote in this upcoming primary/caucus!"
> 
> and have campaign staff members standing at the exit handing out caucus/primary literature/pamphlets


Do they have voter registration tables at the events?

----------


## lordindra3

I think these were pre Iowa caucus numbers when people were starting to believe the media constant pushing that Ron Paul was unelectable, was simply not true. My dad had like 30 GOP voting friends at work who were going to jump on the bandwagon until the Iowa vote for Paul was robbed from him where these soft bandwagon supporters had a reason to believe the media was right all along. Im sorry to be negative, but its hard not to be bitter. I admit, this Nevada 3rd place was devastating for me too... I maybe a sour puss right now, but I will never give up this fight. We have a chance at true prosperity and greatness again and the corrupt establishment dynasty is winning these early battles. The good news is that during the Revolutionary War, the Americans lost almost all the battles against Britain except 2 major key battles which turned the tide and caused us to win in the end and Im hoping the same thing happens this time!

----------


## floridasun1983

> I have no idea how the campaign was identifying voters here in Maine for our caucuses.  A RP2012 representative was present at our caucus yesterday and had a list of people they had allegedly identified as candidates for the State Convention that were RP supporters.  There were 4 names on the list from our small town.  Two of the names were me and my wife.  The other two were people that I know but were not present at the caucus.  So I called each of these other two to see if they indeed were interested in being delegates to the State convention.  Each of them declined politely and asked something to the effect of "why do you think I support Ron Paul?"  Both claimed to be on the  campaign's mailing list but had never had any direct contact with the campaign.


This could explain a lot.  If this is true everywhere, it could explain what is going on; the campaign is working off of very flawed data.

----------


## Lucille

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!...


"Federal policy is dividing society between those who work for a living and those who vote for a living."
--H. L. Mencken

The oldsters vote for a living.




> But you can't look at those numbers without realizing the Republican Party is relying on a group of voters who have an annoying tendency to die off in big numbers between presidential elections.
> 
> Romney's appeal to them is based one ... let me think of the proper technical term ... oh yeah: lies.
> 
>  In his acceptance speech Saturday night, Romney once again pledged to balance the budget while also building an even bigger military, though ours is already by far the most powerful the planet has ever seen.
> 
>  That means he's going to have to make big cuts in Medicare and Social Security. The money has to come from somewhere, and if you don't cut the military and don't raise taxes, then you need to make huge cuts in entitlement spending if you wish to balance the budget.
> 
> The greedy geezers don't care. They know Romney's lying. They figure he'll keep the gravy train on track for the next four or eight years. And they're certainly right. Romney will borrow boatloads of money from the Chinese and send the bill to the kids.

----------


## parocks

> NOPE. No one blowing smoke up your you know what. We have a problem that no one wants to address. It's called voter turn out. You see, Ron Paul has the most vibrant support base. Only problem is: They don't take the voting process serious. Translation: THEY DON'T VOTE!!!
> 
> There are tons of threads trying to address this issue, but it's being ignored. Why? Because the guilty ones are on this forum and they're ashamed of themselves.


You're posting a different version of the same thread a few times.  Your point is right.

GOTV is the kind of thing that large groups of less politically savvy and less rich supporters / volunteers should work on.  That's us.

But we think we're politicial experts who can tell the Ron Paul campaign to change their message.

----------


## parocks

> RP should end every one of his speeches with "and now if we want real change every one of you should register to vote and vote in this upcoming primary/caucus!"
> 
> and have campaign staff members standing at the exit handing out caucus/primary literature/pamphlets


I was at a rally in Freeport, ME where there were 1,000 people.  There were campaign volunteers circulating through the crowd, gathering people's data.

So, they're on top of it to a good degree.

They could refuse admittance for everyone who doesn't fill out the form?

What we should be doing, GOTV wise, is any type of event that would draw 18-29 year olds.  Free Beer.  Anything else like that.  Exciting events close to the precinct location and time.  Events that will draw 18-29 year old men, and we can move them from the event to the caucus or precinct.

That, right there, is what grassroots should be doing.  People can help the official campaign.  People can help the grassroots.  Typical campaign stuff is done by the official campaign.  Grassroots focuses on the one thing that no one is doing, which is aggressive targeting of our base 18-29, and making sure they turn out.

----------


## fearthereaperx

> was at a rally in Freeport, ME where there were 1,000 people. There were campaign volunteers circulating through the crowd, gathering people's data.
> 
> So, they're on top of it to a good degree.


Sweet! Nice info.. Good to know.

----------


## parocks

> No contradiction here. Tons of supporters go out and sign wave, attend the speeches, etc. But when it comes down to showing the "real" support and that means taking care of business as in "voting", they drop the ball.


I'm not sure you have the math right.

You seem to think that there's more sign wavers, speech attenders than voters?  I don't think so there.

The problem I don't think is that our strongest supporters aren't voting, its that the people who are partially apathetic, but like Ron Paul the most, and are 25 year old males who have never voted aren't voting as often as 75 year olds who are partially apathetic but now vote quite frequently and kinda like Romney the most.

These supporters are on a continuum, from strongest to weakest.  

The idea that Ron Paul supporters are good voters is just a made up theory.

Young Ron Paul supporters might say "No One But Paul", but it also could be "No One".  No One But Paul is very easy for someone who does not plan to vote to say.

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## Bossobass

> Thanks for confirming what the numbers are telling us.


Wow. That's the data you're bringing to your high horse stance here?




> The caucus was rigged,﻿ Ron Paul won in our district, I’m in Nevada when we voted they called us back and said there was a problem and we had to travel all the way to vegas to re-vote and we didn’t have time to make it there in the time they gave us,





> The Paul team is a well-oiled grassroots machine and has always been expected to perform exceptionally well, and even win in the caucus states.





> Ron Paul’s vote totals have more than doubled in every primary or caucus so far over his 2008 totals, and since he has had a massive organization in Nevada for four years, and Nevada is a libertarian state, he was expected to either win or tie for first place.  And in the ONE large Clark County caucus where the votes were counted in public, on live television, Ron Paul won by a landslide, as was expected.


Stunning that we have shills roving through every post election thread spewing the "it's the supporters fault" BS, as in pure BS.

Paul's youth support is the envy of the GOP, to no end, as in slash, burn and cheat no end.

Funny how the youth vote "...swept Obama into the White House in 2008...", but the youth vote is the excuse shills use to explain vote process shenanigans that make the 21st century, tech savvy USA look inferior to the Flintstones pet pterodactyl pecking the vote totals onto a rock.

Bosso

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## HOLLYWOOD

Here yah Go... Chuck "The Mouth" Muth's article




> ChuckMuth   Chuck Muth                                                   
> *"The Chaos Caucus: My Final Thoughs." Warning to Paul supporters: You do NOT want to read this. Repeat: DO NOT READ! muthstruths.com/?p=3394*
>    33 minutes ago


http://www.muthstruths.com/2012/02/0...embarrassment/




> _On February 6, 2012, 
>  in Uncategorized,
> by Chuck Muth                                                                       _  
> *  
> 
> After initially predicting over 100,000 Republicans would participate  in the Nevada GOP presidential caucus, the party began ratcheting that  figure down. First to 70,000; then to 55,000. I predicted 40,000. In the  end, total participation in the Chaos Caucus: 32,894. Lame.
> 
>  * Considering how fouled up the caucus was, as is, can you just imagine the nightmare same-day registration would have caused?
>  * The only thing worse than spin is bad spin. Get this: In a 2 a.m.  press release this morning, the Nevada GOP actually had the stones to  brag: While in some states it takes days or weeks to complete  certification, NVGOP certified the results in less than a day.
> ...

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## RonRules

"Free Beer"

When I was young, in Canada it was illegal to sell alchool in election day. I think they did away with that.

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## Nate-ForLiberty

> "Free Beer"
> 
> When I was young, in Canada it was illegal to sell alchool in election day. I think they did away with that.


isn't it illegal to sell alcohol unless you are the gov?

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## BUSHLIED



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## eleganz

People simply didn't take this election seriously.

Many Paul supporters didn't show up, simple as that.

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## HarryBrowneLives

Few things ole Chuck Muth didn't mention that IA (and MN, CO) are all held at 7PM not 9AM. I would suspect that half of our young supporters in Clark were working in Vegas and the other third were at home in bed. At the same time, the state GOP took away the Vegas Strip caucuses where these people could have voted while at work and left NO alternative to vote unless you went way out of the way to drive and then sign some BS affidavidt to vote in the ONE "Sundown" caucus (which we smoked the field and quite a few of our folks were turned away). Fact is the NV GOP played a numbers game and none of us thought about the times. If they gave us 20 night caucus sites in Vegas to accomodate casino and service workers around town we win second hands down. Fact is, by the rules they set up, they didn't want to help young people vote in their caucus.

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## SCOTUSman

Hope they enjoyed their sleep in. Because the rest of us didn't.

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## jemuf

> The truth is that we think too much of ourselves - "Ron Paul supporters will walk on broken glass to vote for him" etc. - and bask in that glory. The truth is that we are a VERY small minority nationwide and like every candidate, we have a lot of soft support...This is the only way we will set the ground for Rand to run in 2016 and win.


If RPF's posts are an accurate representation of Dr. Paul supporters then you are right.  I've been really amazed and bothered by the lack of focus, drive, and dedication.  I've often wondered if there are posers in our midst.  But noooo...The Establishment wouldn't engage in that kind of behavior.

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## AjaxPress

Of course there are poser in our midst.  I went to the Call Center today in Reno to do two hours of calling like i've been doing for the past two weeks.  3PM and I was the first volunteer to show up today.  What the hell?  It's frustrating but the truth of the matter is that Ron Paul's online supporters like to make a lot of noise but they don't have the werewithal to do anything more than goof off on the internet or twitter.  The simple step of getting off the internet and voting in the primary/caucus was too much effort.

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## Muttley

> This could explain a lot.  If this is true everywhere, it could explain what is going on; the campaign is working off of very flawed data.


I hate to be such a conspiracy theorist, but I just don't trust any of these scumbags to not try and rig this election.  I guess that sort of thing is natural when you've been lied to over and over and the agenda is written clearly for everyone to see. 

After all of the PFH repeat calls, and all of the inflated support numbers, I can only think that someone is skewing the data on us.  Such as doing PFH and marking people off as supporters when they're not.

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## Badger Paul

_"who printed and distributed a fake delegate slate on a forged flyer on the morning of the convention and THATS what started the whole mess."_

Right. And so who's conspiracy theorist now? 

I'll say this for old Chuck, he has a face one would love to put a fist through.

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