# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Absolute cheapest firearms?

## t3rmin

Here's the situation: I'm becoming more concerned about protecting my family and exercising my 2nd amendment rights, especially as "victim disarmament" becomes more prevalent. I feel like the window may be narrowing to acquire firearms. I don't currently own but I'd like to before it's too late.

...but I'd be on a real tight budget. I can't really imagine being able to afford more than a couple hundred for a gun. And only because I'm starting to see it as a real necessity can I even begin to carve even that much out of the budget. But I feel like I should do *something*.

I don't mind off-brands or generics or used or whatever. Something that looks like heck but works OK would be great. Maybe smaller calibers are lower cost? I'm sure it'd be better than nothing. Ammo prices are also a consideration.

I'm thinking a shotgun initially for basic home defense? Then going for a semi-auto rifle of some kind? Then a handgun? I've got to set priorities and work up to this over a few years probably.

So what are your suggestions for the lowest of the low-priced firearms for a budget-constrained but concerned individual like myself?

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## hillertexas

I just got a new 9mm 
Smith & Wesson for $399 at Gander Mountain (+ a $50 rebate)

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## hvac ak47

http://www.sksrifle.com/    $150 - $250

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## pcosmar

Check local gun stores for used guns. You can get some good prices there.
There are also surplus rifles.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_M44.html


Item#M44Russ
Original Russian Model 1944 Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R Carbine. Features Tangent Rear Sight, Side Folding Spike Bayonet, 5rd magazine well, 20.4 Bbl length, and 40 Overall. Includes accessories as shown, though they may vary slightly in size, shape, condition, and color.
Refinished to Excellent Condition.

Price:    $69.95

Shop around and you can find deals.

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## RonRules

Get a used gun, ANY gun.

There's endless discussions about the merits of one vs the other.   

Just get a caliber big enough to stop whoever is coming at you and that's what you need.

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## hvac ak47

Gonna be hard to find a better rifle than the sks for $150 bucks. Cheap ammo and semi-auto. 

No thanks to anything bolt action for self defense!

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## Kregener

7.62x54R caliber WWII era military bolt action rifles. Includes the side folding bayonet and accessories. Arsenal refinish in excellent condition, with laminated wood stock (may vary in color from picture). C&R eligible.

Mosin-Nagant M-44 Laminated.
[15-952]

 $79.95 

J&G Sales

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Check your area for live auctions (www.auctionzip.com). Many auction houses hold regular firearm auctions or will have the occasional firearm show up in estate sales. I have seen good quality firearms sell as low as $5 at live auction. The secret is to find a sale that is loaded down with military antiques. Most militaria collectors have at least a few guns that are non military around and when their estates come up on the auction block, almost everyone there is out for the military antiques and the civillian firearms sell cheap. You may even get a cheap military issue firearm if it does not have a high collector value or historic value.

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## Kingfisher

Shotgun best home defense. Easiest to hit your target. And you dont have to worry about wall penetration. Used pump $200 or less if you dont care how it looks.

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## t3rmin

Good stuff, guys, thanks.

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## SWATH

SKS or Mosin M44! Both are very excellent weapons givin the rediculously cheap price.

SKS (semi-auto)=$150-200
M44 (bolt action)=$70-90

I would get a rifle first, then a pistol, and then a shotgun last. A rifle is the most effective weapon, this is why soldiers carry them. You can get a crate of 10 Mosin M44's for around $700.

Order you stuff here:
www.aimsurplus.com

and then just send them the info of a nearby gunstore for them to ship to.

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## PimpBlimp

Mosin Nagant or SKS

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## hvac ak47

SKS (semi-auto)=$150-250
M44 (bolt action)=$70-90

sks  http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FZOHKEUpl5c

m44 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R5tFMZ0kHGQ

I know wich one I would bring to a gun fight!! No Contest !!

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## AisA1787

Keep in mind that if you buy your gun at a store or show where they take your personal information, and/or if your register it, your name will be "on the list" so to speak when the government declares martial law during an emergency and begins confiscating weapens.  For your own protection of course, e.g., what FEMA did down in Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina.  Some states like New Hampshire are trying to block this from happening (http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/huston/060110), but in today's world, the federal government trumps state government, so I'm not sure how well these attempts will work.

There are lots of guns out there that are "off the books", for example maybe your grandfather or father has an old rifle or shotgun that wasn't registered.  But if you somehow obtain one of these off the books firearms, and at the same time buy a new one from a store or show, or register a new one, be prepared to hide that old "off the books" gun very, very well in case of a Katrina-like situation.

I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm just putting it out there for you to think about.

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## amy31416

> SKS or Mosin M44! Both are very excellent weapons givin the rediculously cheap price.
> 
> SKS (semi-auto)=$150-200
> M44 (bolt action)=$70-90
> 
> I would get a rifle first, then a pistol, and then a shotgun last. A rifle is the most effective weapon, this is why soldiers carry them. You can get a crate of 10 Mosin M44's for around $700.
> 
> Order you stuff here:
> www.aimsurplus.com
> ...


Stupid question: What's the difference between a rifle and a shotgun?

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## youngbuck

I'd get a shotgun first, then get an rifle, then a handgun.  Get a used Remington 870, Winchester 1300, or Mossberg 590/500.  

For a rifle, get an SKS (though you may want to seriously consider a cheap AK for a little over 300), and a Mosin Nagant has longer range and more powerful than the SKS/AK.  

Check out gun shows, newspaper ads/craigslist (I think they still sell guns), and even gunbroker.com for an online auction (in which case you'll have to do an FFL transfer, and have it shipped to a nearby gun shop).

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## Malum Prohibitum

> Stupid question: What's the difference between a rifle and a shotgun?



A rifle cartridge ejects one missle, usually a through a 'rifled' barrel (which imparts a degree of spin on the projectile, and hopefully increasing its accuracy).  A shotgun is loaded with a cartridge that can eject anywhere from one very large to very many small spherical projectiles through what is normally a smooth bore.  There are some speciality shotgun cartridges that do various things such as grenade, flare, etc..  And there are some speciality shotgun barrels which are 'rifled' for 'slugs' (large one piece projectile normally used for deer or humans).

The effective difference for a newbie is that the average shotgun round for self defense (buckshot) has a larger area of impact which increases the farther away the target is, up until a point where the shotgun is effectively useless for defense or hunting requirements (usually 50 - 75 yards give or take depending on the round).   Shotgun projectiles usually also have the advantage of penetrating less cover (although depending on the rifle round compared to, not always by very much), which means you are less likely to end up shooting someone behind an exterior wall or two.  A rifle is effective at much farther distances, depending on the round, up to a mile at the extreme, with the right optics and shooter.

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## dvictr

a knife!


-

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## amy31416

> A rifle cartridge ejects one missle, usually a through a 'rifled' barrel (which imparts a degree of spin on the projectile, and hopefully increasing its accuracy).  A shotgun is loaded with a cartridge that can eject anywhere from one very large to very many small spherical projectiles through what is normally a smooth bore.  There are some speciality shotgun cartridges that do various things such as grenade, flare, etc..  And there are some speciality shotgun barrels which are 'rifled' for 'slugs' (large one piece projectile normally used for deer or humans).
> 
> The effective difference for a newbie is that the average shotgun round for self defense (buckshot) has a larger area of impact which increases the farther away the target is, up until a point where the shotgun is effectively useless for defense or hunting requirements (usually 50 - 75 yards give or take depending on the round).   Shotgun projectiles usually also have the advantage of penetrating less cover (although depending on the rifle round compared to, not always by very much), which means you are less likely to end up shooting someone behind an exterior wall or two.  A rifle is effective at much farther distances, depending on the round, up to a mile at the extreme, with the right optics and shooter.


Thanks. So for home protection, a shotgun would be better than a rifle, but for hunting, a rifle would be better it seems.

I'm looking to get one of each as I can afford it.

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## youngbuck

> Thanks. So for home protection, a shotgun would be better than a rifle, but for hunting, a rifle would be better it seems.
> 
> I'm looking to get one of each as I can afford it.


Exactly.  However, if you're hunting something that's going to be flying in the air, of you'd course want a shotgun.  Shotguns are also good if you're hunting running rabbits or turkey.  You can also use slugs for a shotgun if you wanted to hunt, for example, a deer.  Your range won't be nearly as good compared to a rifle you'd normally use to hunt deer with though.

A shotgun is the best thing for home defense.

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## Vancouverite90210

"Just get a caliber big enough to stop whoever is coming at you and that's what you need."

Yes that's it!!!! A real revolution...before the fascist Republican neocons take ALL your freedoms away. Here they come....the Office of Homeland Stupidity:



ACTUALLY.....I've been all around the world and I think now that the USA is by far the LEAST safe and least fun to live in because of all the guns, crime, drugs, paranoia about being invaded by Al Queda parachutists wanting to steal our moonshine and our chickens. 

Will Americans ever learn that in order to get America back you must get the drug addicts into mandatory re-hab  and put the pushers to death like they do in Singapore and Malaysia where they have free socieities with negligible crime? I think the problem with America is too much freedom. Legalizing drugs isn't going to make them affordable to the down and outers who use them so the crime will get worse as it has in Holland where they are now going the other direction after generations of permissiveness. We wouldn't need firearms if we got this problem under control finally. Meanwhile it must be great fun living in America. The paranoia is so thick you can cut it with a bayonet....and you have the BEST place on Earth? OK if you say so lol

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## amy31416

> Exactly.  However, if you're hunting something that's going to be flying in the air, of you'd course want a shotgun.  Shotguns are also good if you're hunting running rabbits or turkey.  You can also use slugs for a shotgun if you wanted to hunt, for example, a deer.  Your range won't be nearly as good compared to a rifle you'd normally use to hunt deer with though.
> 
> A shotgun is the best thing for home defense.


Thanks for the info. It's all pretty interesting and I'll definitely try to get one of all three.

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## GoDrNo

The Mossberg 500 series is supposed to be a wonderful weapon for the price, $300 or less, you can get it in 12g or 20g, with a wide variety of stocks and magazine capacities.

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## youngbuck

> The Mossberg 500 series is supposed to be a wonderful weapon for the price, $300 or less, you can get it in 12g or 20g, with a wide variety of stocks and magazine capacities.


Yep... same goes for the Remington 870 and Winchester 1300.

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## Malum Prohibitum

> "Just get a caliber big enough to stop whoever is coming at you and that's what you need."
> 
> Yes that's it!!!! A real revolution...before the fascist Republican neocons take ALL your freedoms away. Here they come....the Office of Homeland Stupidity:
> 
> 
> 
> ACTUALLY.....I've been all around the world and I think now that the USA is by far the LEAST safe and least fun to live in because of all the guns, crime, drugs, paranoia about being invaded by Al Queda parachutists wanting to steal our moonshine and our chickens. 
> 
> Will Americans ever learn that in order to get America back you must get the drug addicts into mandatory re-hab  and put the pushers to death like they do in Singapore and Malaysia where they have free socieities with negligible crime? I think the problem with America is too much freedom. Legalizing drugs isn't going to make them affordable to the down and outers who use them so the crime will get worse as it has in Holland where they are now going the other direction after generations of permissiveness. We wouldn't need firearms if we got this problem under control finally. Meanwhile it must be great fun living in America. The paranoia is so thick you can cut it with a bayonet....and you have the BEST place on Earth? OK if you say so lol


I think you are on the wrong forum...

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## pcosmar

> I think you are on the wrong forum...


And the wrong country..

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## voortrekker

If you are on a really tight budget, I would absolutely recommend getting the semi-automatic SKS.

I would get this first. It will come with a ten round clip.  You can buy a 30 round clip for it too.

Ammo for the SKS is relatively cheap.

For home defense, like in you home, the shotgun cannot be beat.

The shortcomings of a shotgun is its effectiveness at distance.  About 40 yards is all you are gonna get.(Unless you are shooting slugs, then 100 yards). With a rifle you will get much more distance.  The SKS, out to 300 yards.

So, the shotgun is the next one I would get.  Feed it buck-shot.

Then get a pistol.

I am trying to put myself in your shoes.  "I am on a tight budget I need a firearm to defend my family and myself in my home and possibly outside my home."

Absolutely, know doubt about, get a SKS.

You will probably get one cheaper at a gunshow, also look in your newspaper classifieds section.

I also recommend having at least 200-300 rounds for the SKS or whatever your "go to rifle" may be.

For gosh sakes, please practice with it at local range too.


Respectfully,



Brett

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## damoncrowe

You are right on the order of purchases.  You should be able to find a used shotgun in the classifieds or at a pawn shop.  The problem is you need to know what to look for.  Take someone with you that has extensive knowledge of firearms.  I have seen several semi-auto shotguns that do not work properly.  Pump is probably your best choice there.  Mossberg has been mentioned here and it is usually an affordable used pump shotgun.  Happy shopping.

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## Matt

> You are right on the order of purchases.  You should be able to find a used shotgun in the classifieds or at a pawn shop.  The problem is you need to know what to look for.  Take someone with you that has extensive knowledge of firearms.  I have seen several semi-auto shotguns that do not work properly.  Pump is probably your best choice there.  Mossberg has been mentioned here and it is usually an affordable used pump shotgun.  Happy shopping.


I agree, you can get a Maverick 88 pump shotgun at Wal-Mart brand new for around $175 (I think they might have gone up since I last looked).  It's basically an entry level version of the Mossberg 500, the only differences are the safety location and the finish isn't as nice.  I've never shot a Maverick but I have a 500 and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one.  You can find used 500's for pretty cheap if you look around but I would probably just go for a new Maverick.

For a rifle get definitely get an SKS there's really no question.  Just make sure you get a good one.

For a handgun it depends if you want to carry concealed or not.  I would get one small enough that you could since you already have a shotgun for home defense.    I don't like revolvers but cheap semi-auto pistols are a real crapshoot (pun intended ) so you have to be really careful and try before you buy.  Check out a Kel-Tec P11, they're well proven and you can find them for around $200.

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## Crickett

Go to a pawn shop and buy a shotgun. A few years ago I got a sawed off shotgun (1/4" of being illegal) for $65.00

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## Dave39168

If you only get one gun for inside AND OUTSIDE the home go for a rifle, SKS is best for the budget. A shotgun is better for strictly in the home setting, but if one gun must cover both go with a rifle. I have a chinease SKS that i have had for over ten years. Its a great gun no problems with it. It is capable of dropping deer too, if that comes up.

Secondly, its sounds as though you haven't done a lot of shooting. the most important thing you will do is learn to shoot properly. Learn how to safely handle a firearm. A trusted, experienced friend can show you this. Or there are classes you can take. Either way do not go into this blind, one mistake with a gun is one mistake too many. It takes muc practice handling a gun safely until it become second nature.

Also, practice your marksmanship a LOT. Your gun might be accurate for 250-300 yards, but if you haven't practiced this, and aren't comfortable shooting at this range, then it doesn't matter how accurate the gun is. a lot of ammo will be needed to get comfortable shooting.

I know budget is an issue, but it would be great to buy a .22 rifle as well to learn shooting skills. Ammo is dirt cheap for them, though they aren't extremely effective on anything except small game. you AND your wife could learn to shoot together using the .22 without breaking the bank. (Get her involved and she might be more excited about purchasing more arms?) Being comfortable with shooting is very important.

If you do decide to go with a shotgun, I'd recomend a used remington 870 or a used mossberg 500. these pump guns are really reliable.
It is great that you have decided to arm yourself! learn to shoot safe, shoot often and get comfortable with it.

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## Vancouverite90210

> And the wrong country..


I'm not arguing that point but I am saying that so far all the guns owned by the public have almost never been used on government authorities even though there is good reason for this to have happened thousands of time so what good are they? They are no good because the fascists have already taken over our government without a bullet being fired. Instead we have millions of paranoid Americans with guns who haven't a clue how to live in freedom like over half the world and virtually all of the free world does without the help of the self imposed policemen of the world. I can tell you for a certainty that you cannot find one free world country whose people support what Americas are trying to do and this is the main reason why Ron Paul is right that America needs to butt out and close all of its bases around the world. Now its citizens will soon find that they will be welcomed by the world instead of despised by it so essentially guns would be unnecessary except to fight crime.

You see we don't really need creeps like Rambo


when we have Ronbo defending us

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## pcosmar

> I'm not arguing that point but I am saying that so far all the guns owned by the public have almost never been used on government authorities even though there is good reason for this to have happened thousands of time so what good are they? They are no good because the fascists have already taken over our government without a bullet being fired. Instead we have millions of paranoid Americans with guns who haven't a clue how to live in freedom like over half the world and virtually all of the free world does without the help of the self imposed policemen of the world. I can tell you for a certainty that you cannot find one free world country whose people support what Americas are trying to do and this is the main reason why Ron Paul is right that America needs to butt out and close all of its bases around the world. Now its citizens will soon find that they will be welcomed by the world instead of despised by it so essentially guns would be unnecessary except to fight crime.


There have been good reasons for a uprising, That is true. However,
1.Most Americans are Peace loving people and don't want to take it to that level if it can be avoided.
2. There was/is a small group of people that are aware of the Evil in Our Government, and were preparing for this.
3. Through Propaganda and Disinformation those Americans that are aware are persecuted, including Prosecution on trumped up charges, and casting the Militia as evil. 
4. We are seeking a peaceful solution first. Violence , though at times necessary, is to be avoided. If enough people see that there is no other choice, or if the Government pushes too far, it will happen.




> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

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## Matt

> I'm not arguing that point but I am saying that so far all the guns owned by the public have almost never been used on government authorities even though there is good reason for this to have happened thousands of time so what good are they? They are no good because the fascists have already taken over our government without a bullet being fired. Instead we have millions of paranoid Americans with guns who haven't a clue how to live in freedom like over half the world and virtually all of the free world does without the help of the self imposed policemen of the world. I can tell you for a certainty that you cannot find one free world country whose people support what Americas are trying to do and this is the main reason why Ron Paul is right that America needs to butt out and close all of its bases around the world. Now its citizens will soon find that they will be welcomed by the world instead of despised by it so essentially guns would be unnecessary except to fight crime.
> 
> You see we don't really need creeps like Rambo


I kind of see your point but giving up our guns would just give the fascist government more power so it seems kind of stupid not to try to hang on to them.

BTW, Stallone is a pansy ass gun grabber.  He thinks the government should go door to door confiscating guns Nazi style.

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## t3rmin

> Keep in mind that if you buy your gun at a store or show where they take your personal information, and/or if your register it, your name will be "on the list" so to speak when the government declares martial law during an emergency and begins confiscating weapens.  For your own protection of course, e.g., what FEMA did down in Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina.  Some states like New Hampshire are trying to block this from happening (http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/huston/060110), but in today's world, the federal government trumps state government, so I'm not sure how well these attempts will work.
> 
> There are lots of guns out there that are "off the books", for example maybe your grandfather or father has an old rifle or shotgun that wasn't registered.  But if you somehow obtain one of these off the books firearms, and at the same time buy a new one from a store or show, or register a new one, be prepared to hide that old "off the books" gun very, very well in case of a Katrina-like situation.
> 
> I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm just putting it out there for you to think about.


Deleted.

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## t3rmin

> Secondly, its sounds as though you haven't done a lot of shooting. the most important thing you will do is learn to shoot properly. Learn how to safely handle a firearm. A trusted, experienced friend can show you this. Or there are classes you can take. Either way do not go into this blind, one mistake with a gun is one mistake too many. It takes muc practice handling a gun safely until it become second nature.
> 
> Also, practice your marksmanship a LOT. Your gun might be accurate for 250-300 yards, but if you haven't practiced this, and aren't comfortable shooting at this range, then it doesn't matter how accurate the gun is. a lot of ammo will be needed to get comfortable shooting.


Deleted.

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## t3rmin

> I agree, you can get a Maverick 88 pump shotgun at Wal-Mart brand new for around $175 (I think they might have gone up since I last looked).  It's basically an entry level version of the Mossberg 500, the only differences are the safety location and the finish isn't as nice.  I've never shot a Maverick but I have a 500 and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one.  You can find used 500's for pretty cheap if you look around but I would probably just go for a new Maverick.


Now that's what I'm looking for. I don't mind off-brands and such. Not concerned with finish and whatnot as long as it functions well.

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## Original_Intent

> SKS or Mosin M44! Both are very excellent weapons givin the rediculously cheap price.
> 
> SKS (semi-auto)=$150-200
> M44 (bolt action)=$70-90
> 
> I would get a rifle first, then a pistol, and then a shotgun last. A rifle is the most effective weapon, this is why soldiers carry them. You can get a crate of 10 Mosin M44's for around $700.
> 
> Order you stuff here:
> www.aimsurplus.com
> ...


I agree with the above order.

The rifle is going to be a great gun for getting food and protection before the enemy is in your face.

The pistol not so great for hunting, it's a close range weapon but it is concealable. A lot less conspicuous than packing a rifle or shotgun around.

Shotgun you are back to a gun that can provide food by hunting small game at a relatively close range. It's good protection at close range because you don't have to be super accurate. A handgun is a lot harder to hit a target at 20 yards, especially if it is moving.

For the rifle, I would recommend getting a scope with it. I have a 30-30 lever action which is nice, but I really have a hard time with the open sights at farther distances.

A nice cheap handgun is the Ruger 9mm I love mine.

I don't have a shotgun yet, but my wife and I both have a rifle and a handgun. A shotgun is really a ways down our list.

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## t3rmin

Hmm... I may just have to start off with this:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2684921

Looks like a good intro/practice gun. Big brother will know I have it, but it wouldn't be a huge loss if they took it, as I'll hopefully have something better stashed away eventually.

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## t3rmin

Deleted.

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## ConstitutionReinstitution

YOU DO NOT WANT A RIFLE FOR HOME DEFENSE.  You run the risk of hitting family members (and neighbors) as the high power rifle rounds will easily penetrate walls.  

If you get a pistol, get the specialty ammo like Glazer that is made for the purpose of home defense and is designed not to over-penetrate.

My recommendation is a Remington 12 gauge 870 pump shotgun, loaded with number 1 buck shells.  get a version (they sell many versions) with the long magazine, that is, will hold 6 or 7 shells, plus one in the chamber, and get the short, 18 1/2" barrel.  You can get a model with a folding stock, or get the one you want with a regular stock, and just change the stock out with a good aftermarket folding stock.  You want a short barrel and folding stock for maneuverability of close quarters in the home. 

The Remington 870 shotgun is the most popular shotgun of law enforcement, and has been since forever, so should be able to pick one up used.

Here are two models offered by Remington that would fill your need:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi..._Extension.asp
http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ine_magnum.asp

Be warned that this shotgun will kick.

You can shoot rifled slugs through a shotgun if you want to take game like deer.  Make sure the choke your shotgun has (doesn't have) will allow this.

An "Open Cylinder" choke is the best for short range with shot as that gives max shot dispersal.  Decreases your ability to reach out and get the birds compared to the other chokes, though, but you want it for home defense.

BTW this is not the cheapest solution.  You do not want to stake your life on the cheapest solution.  Find the money.

Hope this helps

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## voortrekker

> Hmm... I may just have to start off with this:
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2684921
> 
> Looks like a good intro/practice gun. Big brother will know I have it, but it wouldn't be a huge loss if they took it, as I'll hopefully have something better stashed away eventually.



Nope.

You said you are on a tight budget, right?

You can buy an SKS for 150-200 bucks.

Why would want to buy a .22, when you can buy a rifle that will put foe down with one shot?

A .22 won't do this.  As a practice tool, the .22 is the best.  For defense, not good.

Did I mention that time is short?

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## mrwomp

if you want a pistol go for hipoint it is very cheap with a great warranty first or 50th owner all parts fixed/replaced free i have the 9mm put around 800 rounds in it and have yet to get a jam

just a suggestion

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## tangent4ronpaul

> ...paranoia about being invaded by Al Queda parachutists wanting to steal our moonshine and our chickens.


God I love this forum some days - what a line!

-n

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## tangent4ronpaul

> Hmm... I may just have to start off with this:
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2684921
> 
> Looks like a good intro/practice gun. Big brother will know I have it, but it wouldn't be a huge loss if they took it, as I'll hopefully have something better stashed away eventually.


MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem is the point of purchase.  Walmart low balls suppliers and has "special" Walmart versions made that are inferior to the same product bought anywhere else, so they can be super cheap.  This is NOT a quality you want in a self defense firearm!

-n

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## the_british_are_coming

personally, i think your order should be:

-Shotgun (Mossberg. Cheaper, more readily available. Yes, Remington offers a similar model, but it is more expensive for the exact same thing.)
-Pistol (Used is good, but don't get a Hi-Point. Spend a little more and look at both revolvers (S&W .38 can be had cheap) and semi-autos. Take your time to find a deal, and shoot before you buy!)
-Rifle. 


From what you've said, both "budget" and "home defense" this should be the better way to go. A rifle (especially one of those moisin's... have you looked at their size?) is a little  big to manuever in a house, whereas the Mossberg is available with an 18 inch barrel, much easier to manuever...  Pistol as secondary, not as powerful, but easier to handle...

For ammunition, standard buckshot is fine, as well as standard Jacketed Hollow Points for the handgun. Glaser is overpriced, ineffective, and overpriced. (not to beat a dead horse...) for more info on ammunition, check out www.theboxotruth.com.  Real world tests of ammo, firearms, and cars. 

Anyway, good luck, and try before you buy!

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## jkm1864

I would get a vector arms Ak-47 if the issue was price. The rifle will run You mid 700's price range but You can find the bullets at ww.cheaperthandirt.com for about 25 cents a shell. I would recomend this because a AK-47 is very reliable and has a great shell. Also the ammo is pretty cheap so it would be nothing to hide away 1000 rounds with You're rifle ..... I would also venture to say the SK-S is alot cheaper and fires the same round but I do not know how accurate it is.

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## DarkLaw

Used Glock .40 or 9mm

Can be found for $300 most places.


That or a Romanian Ak47 knock-off.
You can find brand new AK variants for about $200-300 as well,
will several mags included.

But whatEvER you do...don't go and buy one of those $150 'new' handguns, 
like a Hi-Point or Jenkins, etc.  Buy at least decent quality because when you buy crap,
you will be crying when it breaks or consistently jams due to poor standards.

Something reputable, but used.
That's the advice of a police officer.

A Used GLock, to me, is more reliable and can be shot much better
than a brand new S&W Sigma or any of the S&W, other than the M&P model, which is pricey for your budget.

Get a Glock, shotgun, or AK47 variant.  All can be bought for under $300.

Cheers!

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## DarkLaw

> if you want a pistol go for hipoint it is very cheap with a great warranty first or 50th owner all parts fixed/replaced free i have the 9mm put around 800 rounds in it and have yet to get a jam
> 
> just a suggestion


See above.

NEVER buy something like a Hi-Point unless you consider actually
clubbing someone WITH the gun as self-defense when it breaks.

If the Nation gets to the point where you NEED a gun, for the reasons you stated - 
such as civilian disarmament or similar, then you won't be able to CALL the factory and get 'replacement' parts shipped or anything of the nature.

Screw a 'warranty' and buy a used QUALITY gun.

BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE!
Just remember, you are putting your life on the line when you choose a weapon.
Do you trust it?

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## manny229

> That or a Romanian Ak47 knock-off.
> You can find brand new AK variants for about $200-300 as well,
> will several mags included.
> 
> 
> Get a Glock, shotgun, or AK47 variant.  All can be bought for under $300.
> 
> Cheers!


Is a Russian made AK any better than an Romanian?

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## AisA1787

> YOU DO NOT WANT A RIFLE FOR HOME DEFENSE.  You run the risk of hitting family members (and neighbors) as the high power rifle rounds will easily penetrate walls.


...lots of guns will penetrate walls, if you're talking about standard drywall with pine studs.  If they didn't, they wouldn't be all that effective against people...  Some penetrate more than others.  Here's info if you're interested:  




> The purpose of the *Box O' Truth* is to test the penetration of various rounds.
> 
> There is only one way to know how much a certain round penetrates.
> 
> You must shoot it into a medium and see for a fact.
> 
> http://www.theboxotruth.com/
> 
> From the drywall-specific test:
> ...

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## SpamBots Attack!!!

First purchase- Shotgun, pump, 12 ga. add flashlight
first priority, protect the home
Second purchase- .22 cal Rifle add scope
enhance your marksmanship
Third and Final? (your choice) purchase- Bolt action Mosin-Nagant add scope
ammunition, ammunition, and oh yes more ammunition
Be ready at a moments notice to defend your Liberty
From that point on, just practice at the range with the .22, and purchase more ammunition for the Mosin. Trust me, it might be "sexy" owning a military style semi-automatic rifle. But when the time comes, if youve practiced with a .22 on a regular basis, you can do amazing things with that bolt action 7.64x54 with a scope on it. After you use this list for putting your mind at ease, then save up for the SuperSpiff Flame Throwing Destructo 5000 you've always wanted

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## the_british_are_coming

Ummm...

Practicing with a .22 will not make you a wizard with a large bore rifle you haven't practiced with. It will make you proficient with a .22 rifle, since that's what you've been practicing. It will give you a good base to move up, but it will not magically transfer your abilities.

Practice with what you will depend on! PERIOD!!! 

If anyone you are discussing firearms with mentions the word "sexy," move quickly away from them, and talk only with people who have credibility, and don't watch too many movies/tv shows.  also, Super Spiffy Trendo 2000 is not exactly a good way to refer to any weapon. Maturity = a plus...

Training is the most important part of what you are starting.  Buy the best gun you can, and save for professional training. (pm for references, i won't name drop here)  What you can do with a gun is more important that what gun you have. Good Luck.

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## t3rmin

Well I'm sure there are some parts of shooting skill that are more universal. But obviously you'd want to get appreciable practice with each gun.

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## madengr

I'm surprised no one has mentioned CZ handguns.  I *don't* have one, but know many that do and they are very reliable at a fair price.  Although the price has come up since they are gaining popularity, I would think you can get a used CZ75B for the low $300's.

http://www.cz-usa.com/

Definitely stay away from High Point, Jennings, etc..

I'd also stick with 9mm as it's about 1/2 the cost of .45 ammo, and less than .40 or .38.

I would also get a handgun first since it's more versatile for personal defense.  90% of all shootings happen at 3' distance or under.  Also look into getting your CCW license.

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## maeqFREEDOMfree

for some reason i forgot to mention this until now.

Check out the Springfield XD - if it's a gun you like, you may be interested to know that it's manufactured by a Croatian company with the title "HS 2000" Springfield basically imports this gun and stamps it with their company seal and then jacks the price up. it's a great gun and if you buy the "non-Springfield" model, you should be able to save :-)

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## the_british_are_coming

some people would recommend the springfield xd... nothing wrong with that gun in and of itself...

but it is a *copy* of the Glock. a copy that adds unnecessary parts, and has a higher bore axis. (i.e. more recoil from the same round...)

i'm not a "fanboy..." i'm an individual who did a lot of research before i spent a lot of money.


which is my advice. research. test. make your own decisions. good luck.

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