# News & Current Events > Individual Rights Violations: Case Studies >  SWAT 107 year old guy dead

## tod evans

...Our government..


*107-year-old man killed by SWAT team in Arkansas
*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/08...est=latestnews

Police in Pine Bluff, Arkansas say a 107-year-old man was killed in a shootout with a SWAT team Saturday afternoon. 
Investigators say that local police responded to a complaint of aggravated assault against Monroe Isadore, who allegedly pointed a gun at two people at a home on West 16th Street in Pine Bluff. When police approached the bedroom door where Isadore was holed up, he fired one shot through the door. No one was hit. 
The SWAT team was called in and negotiations with Isadore began. The SWAT team confirmed that Isadore was armed with a handgun by inserting a camera into the bedroom through a window.
After negotiations were unsuccessful, the SWAT team pumped gas in the room from outside the bedroom window, hoping that Isadore would surrender peacefully. Instead, Isador fired more shots at a SWAT entry team, who threw a "distraction device" into the room after breaching the door. Isadore continued shooting at the entry team, who finally shot and killed him.
Local police said that the investigation is ongoing, but provided no further details.

----------


## donnay

It's really sad when a SWAT team can't handle a 107 year old man without killing him.  SMFH

----------


## A Son of Liberty

How would Sheriff Taylor have handled this?



I miss Mayberry...

----------


## Anti Federalist

Thank God no brave officers were hurt and officer safety was ensured.

LOL @ "Distraction Device".

*It's a $#@!ing grenade*, and if a Mundane were to throw one at a cop, he would be charged with all manner of "destructive device" and felony assault and explosive charges.

War is Peace and Truth is Treason in the daily War on Us.

----------


## 69360

> How would Sheriff Taylor have handled this?


Would have waited until the old guy fell asleep, took the gun away and maybe got him a glass of warm milk.


What kind of world is it where its ok to kill old people?

----------


## WM_in_MO

Again I ask: What happened to all that less-than-lethal tech I read about growing up?

----------


## green73

Let me guess, the negotiation was deemed a failure after enough cops missed their union-mandated donut break.

----------


## Origanalist

> Would have waited until the old guy fell asleep, took the gun away and maybe got him a glass of warm milk.
> 
> 
> What kind of world is it where its ok to kill old people?


No $#@!, how long can a 107 year old stay awake?

----------


## pcosmar

107 years old,,,
I have to guess that he had a good reason to be pointing a gun in the first place.

It is clear that the police were a real threat.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Let me guess, the negotiation was deemed a failure after enough cops missed their union-mandated donut break.


High fives were exchanged after RTB in the Green Zone.

"Served and protected the $#@! outta that old guy!"

"Hell Yeeeeah!"

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Thank God no brave officers were hurt and officer safety was ensured.
> 
> LOL @ "Distraction Device".
> 
> *It's a $#@!ing grenade*, and if a Mundane were to throw one at a cop, he would be charged with all manner of "destructive device" and felony assault and explosive charges.
> 
> War is Peace and Truth is Treason in the daily War on Us.


You dare to question the Truth of Newspeak?  Reported.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.

----------


## angelatc

I think this is how I secretly hope to go out.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I think this is how I secretly hope to go out.


Get out of my head.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Again I ask: What happened to all that less-than-lethal tech I read about growing up?


used exclusively for torture - as predicted

----------


## thoughtomator

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.


Dead men don't get to tell their side of the story. You don't live to 107 by pointing weapons at people for no good reason.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.


Define your terms: what is "your job"?

It makes a big difference if: your job is to keep the peace, protect and serve your neighborhood and protect the rights of individuals.

Or your job is one of being a soldier in occupied territory, looking to "go home in one piece", and lighting up and neutralizing hostiles as quickly as possible.

Cops are trained now to be soldiers, and that we are the enemy.

The specifics of this case are not really relevant.

On patrol in Disputed Zone Alpha-7.

Elderly hostile was seen with a weapon.

Elderly hostile was commanded to comply.

Hostile refused compliance and was terminated.

After action network notified.

Officer safety was ensured, no officer casualties, policy was followed, RTB.

And *that's* what has changed, and it's not a world or a society that either one of us will want to live in.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ols-his-sector

----------


## Anti Federalist

> used exclusively for torture - as predicted


Yup.

That.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

I need more info for this No Hesitation target

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I need more info for this No Hesitation target

----------


## pcosmar

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them.


And just how do you know what this domestic dispute was over?

How do you know he wasn't being robbed..
(like thugs never rob older relatives).. 

I have no idea.. but I can imagine several possible scenarios where an old black man might pull a gun on folks in his own home.
And some of those,,, damn good reasons.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> And just how do you know what this domestic dispute was over?
> 
> How do you know he wasn't being robbed..
> (like thugs never rob older relatives).. 
> 
> I have no idea.. but I can imagine several possible scenarios where an old black man might pull a gun on folks in his own home.
> And some of those,,, damn good reasons.


Ra.......ci......st!!!

----------


## XNavyNuke

> I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type.


Unless you know the individual personally, the only reference you have is what is being released by the PD PAO and reported upon uncritically by the media.

Yes, the gentleman was passed the age of twenty one and should have seen his Lastday eight decades ago. That's your utopia, not mine. Speaking of old senile codger who should have been polite enough to die, one of my favorites is the right honorable Mr. Whittemore. From badassoftheweek.com http://www.badassoftheweek.com/whittemore.html

XNN

----------


## Dr.3D

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. ~snip


There is absolutely no proof he ever pointed a firearm at anybody.   I've known people who have accused others of doing this and it does cause a lot of trouble.  I believe if someone accuses another of pointing a firearm at them, they should be made to prove it or be locked up for false accusations.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.


Get out of here with this bull$#@!.

107 years old.  ONE HUNDRED AND SEVEN YEARS OLD.  That is ONE CENTURY, carry the $#@!ing 7.  

I expect the police to *figure out a $#@!ing way to not shoot a man* who lived for almost 11 decades.  That's what I expect.  Lock him in the room and wait for him to fall asleep for pity's sake!  Surely at that age, he would be on a thrice daily nap schedule anyway.  

He wasn't a $#@!ing ninja for God's holy sake.  Had he fired the gun, it more than likely would have broken his wrist.  

UNREAL.  God have mercy on us if this kind of "understanding" has invaded our ranks here.  Yeah - everyone should just _expect_ to get SWATted for the slightest little step out of line.  

I almost NEVER neg rep, so please do enjoy yours.  FFS.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Irrelevant.

Officer Safety was ensured.





> Get out of here with this bull$#@!.
> 
> 107 years old.  ONE HUNDRED AND SEVEN YEARS OLD.  That is ONE CENTURY, carry the $#@!ing 7.  
> 
> I expect the police to *figure out a $#@!ing way to not shoot a man* who lived for almost 11 decades.  That's what I expect.  Lock him in the room and wait for him to fall asleep for pity's sake!  Surely at that age, he would be on a thrice daily nap schedule anyway.  
> 
> He wasn't a $#@!ing ninja for God's holy sake.  Had he fired the gun, it more than likely would have broken his wrist.  
> 
> UNREAL.  God have mercy on us if this kind of "understanding" has invaded our ranks here.  Yeah - everyone should just _expect_ to get SWATted for the slightest little step out of line.  
> ...

----------


## SeanTX

The comments on one local news site about this were 98% anti-law enforcement.

 Which is a nice sign, but then again I can almost bet that in the unlikely event any charges were filed against a cop or cops in this case (or any case) the grand jury would refuse to indict,  and if they did the trial jury would refuse to convict.

----------


## 69360

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.


Were you not taught respect for your elders? Of course the guy is probably not all there mentally a that age. How hard would it have been to have a little respect, wait until he got tired and gently take the gun away from him. There was no need at all to swat and kill an old man.

If the police treat citizens like they were in Mayberry, the citizens will act like they are.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Irrelevant.
> 
> Officer Safety was ensured.


Yeah, I get it.

It's one thing that the society which engulfs us has devolved to the degree to which it has; as I mentioned: I get it.  It's an entirely other thing to suffer that kind of bull$#@! here, where I once thought I enjoyed the vanishing company of like-minded, rational people under the banner of the last, best hope.  

If we can't expect to avoid that tripe here, then the enemy is not merely at the gates... he's bloody beat them off the hinges and over-$#@!ing-run us.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Yeah, I get it.
> 
> It's one thing that the society which engulfs us has devolved to the degree to which it has; as I mentioned: I get it.  It's an entirely other thing to suffer that kind of bull$#@! here, where I once thought I enjoyed the vanishing company of like-minded, rational people under the banner of the last, best hope.  
> 
> If we can't expect to avoid that tripe here, then the enemy is not merely at the gates... he's bloody beat them off the hinges and over-$#@!ing-run us.


Pretty much...but then again, I'm a doom and gloom kinda guy.

----------


## jct74

http://drudgereport.com/

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Pretty much...but then again, I'm a doom and gloom kinda guy.


I wasn't, but this place has been changing my mind lately.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://drudgereport.com/
> 
> http://www.thv11.com/news/article/27...tout-with-SWAT


In that report, the cops claim he shot at them a number of times through the door.

Regardless, as is usually the case, the initial problem, an agitated (who could have been agitated for a very good reason, like maybe family members trying to scam him or remove him from his home against his will) elderly man *brandishing* a weapon, results in cops showing up and a Mundane dying.

You call out SWAT and trust me, once they show up on scene, hut hutting about, something or someone is going to get lit up.

Just another day in AmeriKa.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.


WWAD? (What would Andy do?)




> How would Sheriff Taylor have handled this?
> 
> 
> 
> I miss Mayberry...

----------


## fr33

> In that report, the cops claim he shot at them a number of times through the door.


Where have we heard that before.... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-of-Engagement

----------


## pcosmar

I have been looking for anything more. 
You would think that some reporter would be asking some obvious questions,, like,

Who was this man?
Who were the other people in the house.. Did they live there? Were they related? 
What was the argument about? Why was it escalated?

Who, What and Why.  But no.. They are all pretty much all just parroting the police spokesperson.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Where have we heard that before.... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-of-Engagement


Yah, no kidding.

We've both heard this tune before.

----------


## torchbearer

> You dare to question the Truth of Newspeak?  Reported.


+1 internets added to your NSA account for being a good citizen.

----------


## fisharmor

> *It's a $#@!ing grenade*, and if a Mundane were to throw one at a cop, he would be charged with all manner of "destructive device" and felony assault and explosive charges.


You think he'd be charged?  I would assume he'd be black-bagged and shipped to Cuba.

----------


## fisharmor

> I have been looking for anything more. 
> You would think that some reporter would be asking some obvious questions,, like,
> 
> Who was this man?
> Who were the other people in the house.. Did they live there? Were they related? 
> What was the argument about? Why was it escalated?
> 
> Who, What and Why.  But no.. They are all pretty much all just parroting the police spokesperson.


Or how about**:
What kind of gun did the elderly man possess?
How many empty cartridges were found at the scene that match his weapon?  If it was a revolver, how many empty cases were in the cylinder?
Was the man ambulatory?
Is there any history of senility in this man?
Who are his next of kin?  Are they available for comment?

Nope, I bet we get no extra answers.  I would actually stake money on it.
Someone let the cat out of the bag and there's a public report on it, but we're mysteriously going to get nothing else.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You think he'd be charged?  I would assume he'd be black-bagged and shipped to Cuba.


Cut to ribbons by a couple hundred rounds of 5.56 mm fire.

Posthumously charged for the death or injury of any idiot cops that shot at each other in the circle jerk of confusion.

----------


## Occam's Banana

Anyone remember Jose Guerena? Shot at 70+ times by SWAT troopers & "allowed" to bleed out while paramedics were made to stand by.
They claimed Guerena had shot at them - but his gun was later found not to have been fired at all.
In fact, the safety on Guerena's gun had not even been disengaged ...

----------


## shane77m

If the old man was senile, his family should have taken his gun from him long before this ever happened. I am currently involved in that type of situation where it was necessary. It could have been handled much differently though. A little patience and they would have been able to remove the gun while he slept. 

Perhaps the officers had to get home before the ballgame came on television.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Get out of my head.


I hear she leaves footprints.

----------


## Carson

So he was in his own home?


What were the people doing on his property that he had to ward them off with a gun?

It is a right.

Not only is it a right it is a common form of greeting that is respected in the rural areas.

----------


## Carson

They said he had a gun and enough said!


Even here.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I hear she leaves footprints.


That...that is a truly disturbing thought.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> So he was in his own home?
> 
> 
> What were the people doing on his property that he had to ward them off with a gun?
> 
> It is a right.
> 
> Not only is it a right it is a common form of greeting that is respected in the rural areas.


Appears so...so the question then becomes, why?

I don't know, but it may be that he was perfectly justified in threatening to use force against someone who was initiating force against him.

----------


## Pericles

> I think this is how I secretly hope to go out.


I can still make head shots two out of three times at 300 meters with iron sights. There will be a price paid for taking me out.

----------


## Pericles

> Unless you know the individual personally, the only reference you have is what is being released by the PD PAO and reported upon uncritically by the media.
> 
> Yes, the gentleman was passed the age of twenty one and should have seen his Lastday eight decades ago. That's your utopia, not mine. Speaking of old senile codger who should have been polite enough to die, one of my favorites is the right honorable Mr. Whittemore. From badassoftheweek.com http://www.badassoftheweek.com/whittemore.html
> 
> XNN


That is one fantastic website

----------


## Origanalist

> I have been looking for anything more. 
> *You would think that some reporter would be asking some obvious questions*,, like,
> 
> Who was this man?
> Who were the other people in the house.. Did they live there? Were they related? 
> What was the argument about? Why was it escalated?
> 
> Who, What and Why.  But no.. They are all pretty much all just parroting the police spokesperson.


Why would you think that?

----------


## Origanalist

> That is one fantastic website





> The dude actually survived the entire war, finally dying in 1793 at the age of 98 from extreme old age and awesomeness.

----------


## pcosmar

> I can still make head shots two out of three times at 300 meters with iron sights. There will be a price paid for taking me out.


I do not expect a motivating encounter to happen at that range.

And as I am unarmed,, I hope for it to be within arms reach.

Yes,, I will be relying on stupidity. (and guile)

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> WWAD? (What would Andy do?)


Sadly, Andy _Griffith_ would have passed out milk and donuts to the SWAT team and consoled everybody on the scene that killing the man was the unfortunate outcome of necessary procedures.  Andy Griffith was a raging biggov nanny-state liberal who campaigned for Obama, Mike Easley (who would be in prison except for influential friends), and Beverly Perdue (worst Governor in NC history).  The police state killing people before they could harm themselves is something that would have been right up Andy Griffith's alley.

----------


## Origanalist

> Sadly, Andy _Griffith_ would have passed out milk and donuts to the SWAT team and consoled everybody on the scene that killing the man was the unfortunate outcome of necessary procedures.  Andy Griffith was a raging biggov nanny-state liberal who campaigned for Obama, Mike Easley (who would be in prison except for influential friends), and Beverly Perdue (worst Governor in NC history).  The police state killing people before they could harm themselves is something that would have been right up Andy Griffith's alley.


Reality bites.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Sadly, Andy _Griffith_ would have passed out milk and donuts to the SWAT team and consoled everybody on the scene that killing the man was the unfortunate outcome of necessary procedures.  Andy Griffith was a raging biggov nanny-state liberal who campaigned for Obama, Mike Easley (who would be in prison except for influential friends), and Beverly Perdue (worst Governor in NC history).  The police state killing people before they could harm themselves is something that would have been right up Andy Griffith's alley.


That's actor Andy Samuel Griffith.
I was referring to Sheriff Andrew Jackson "Andy" Taylor.
The former portrayed the latter, but they're not the same person ...




> Reality bites.


And claws and scratches and $#@!s on the carpet. I much prefer fiction ...

----------


## Origanalist

> And claws and scratches and $#@!s on the carpet. I much prefer fiction ...

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> WWAD? (What would Andy do?)


A serendipitous blog post from Eric Peters:




> the new crop of cop is crew cut and unforgiving. Andy Griffith need not apply. His types not wanted anymore.
> 
> Of course, Andy wouldnt want any part of this mess anyhow.


http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/09/07/profiles-pork/

----------


## Victor Grey

Four thoughts came to me pondering about this.

First was how sad it is that the world doesn't have a person who's that age any more. Then, how sad this is how the man that lives so long met his end, then how maybe still that isn't the worst way to go out of the world, and lastly how folks really need to start using HPR's and ditch the handguns in these situations.

It's an interesting story. Brings me down a little.

----------


## moostraks

> (UPDATE: HE WAS REPORTEDLY LEGALLY BLIND AND NEARLY DEAF)
> But friends and fellow church members say that Monroe Isadore was legally blind and nearly deaf and shouldn’t have died that way.
> 
> “I’m in shock today,” Larry Smith, who attended church with Isadore at New Direction Baptist, told KLRT-TV.
> 
> “He couldn’t hear,” Smith said. “Somebody should’ve told the [police] he couldn’t hear.”
> 
> Friends told KLRT that Isadore was also legally blind and believe Isadore must have been confused.
> 
> ...


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ith-swat-team/


Thought ya'll would really appreciate this update.

----------


## pcosmar

> Thought ya'll would really appreciate this update.


Thank you. 
I had expected as much.. Now if the story on his original assailants would come out.

----------


## mrsat_98

> Dead men don't get to tell their side of the story. You don't live to 107 by pointing weapons at people for no good reason.


So much for an old mans right to be let alone. What makes these people think he has to open his door and talk to them.

----------


## tod evans

> So much for an old mans right to be let alone. What makes these people think he has to open his door and talk to them.


The simple fact that they'll grease his old ass and get away with it...

The government is not going to hold its own agents liable unless they're forced to.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Get out of here with this bull$#@!.
> 
> 107 years old.  ONE HUNDRED AND SEVEN YEARS OLD.  That is ONE CENTURY, carry the $#@!ing 7.  
> 
> I expect the police to *figure out a $#@!ing way to not shoot a man* who lived for almost 11 decades.  That's what I expect.  Lock him in the room and wait for him to fall asleep for pity's sake!  Surely at that age, he would be on a thrice daily nap schedule anyway.  
> 
> He wasn't a $#@!ing ninja for God's holy sake.  Had he fired the gun, it more than likely would have broken his wrist.  
> 
> UNREAL.  God have mercy on us if this kind of "understanding" has invaded our ranks here.  Yeah - everyone should just _expect_ to get SWATted for the slightest little step out of line.  
> ...


Can't you read my entire statement w/o letting parts of it mess with your hatred of police meme? I had said that I didn't have all the facts but did make a presumption by what was mentioned in the piece. And, that presumption was made w/ the concept in mind about what it's like to have a firearm pointed at oneself and is something that you might never forget. So take your righteous anti-police always mentality and bite it. Clearly, I'm reasonable to see the whole picture after all the facts are out. If the old man was robbed or some such thing, he should've came out to speak his piece not hold up in the home creating a PR disaster for himself. Frankly and all too often, articles are posted here that do, in fact, make the police look bad but that mindset tends to carry into every other thread in which the police are involved. Take each article separately, they went through normal protocol here and didn't open up a can right off the bat and they gave the man ample opportunities to show himself that he wasn't a deviant. Perhaps at his age something didn't go right in the mind, idk. The guy did fire the weapon several times, read the facts first. That said, carry on.

----------


## pcosmar

> Frankly and all too often, articles are posted here that do, in fact, make the police look bad but that mindset tends to carry into every other thread in which the police are involved.


The police are bad. The very concept of police is an authoritarian concept that is the polar opposite of Liberty.

They should have never been created,, and should not be allowed to exist.

This $#@! is the natural and expected result of their existence.

They Killed an Old Man for nothing than defending himself in his own home. A blind and deaf 107 year old man.

There is no justifying that.. and hope his killers have just enough conscience left to torment them for the rest of their remaining days.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Can't you read my entire statement w/o letting parts of it mess with your hatred of police meme? I had said that I didn't have all the facts but did make a presumption by what was mentioned in the piece. And, that presumption was made w/ the concept in mind about what it's like to have a firearm pointed at oneself and is something that you might never forget. So take your righteous anti-police always mentality and bite it. Clearly, I'm reasonable to see the whole picture after all the facts are out. If the old man was robbed or some such thing, he should've came out to speak his piece not hold up in the home creating a PR disaster for himself. Frankly and all too often, articles are posted here that do, in fact, make the police look bad but that mindset tends to carry into every other thread in which the police are involved. Take each article separately, they went through normal protocol here and didn't open up a can right off the bat and they gave the man ample opportunities to show himself that he wasn't a deviant. Perhaps at his age something didn't go right in the mind, idk. The guy did fire the weapon several times, read the facts first. That said, carry on.


You apologized for the MURDER of a 107 year old man.

That's all I need to know about you.

Piss off.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Thought ya'll would really appreciate this update.


Thanks for that post. I had not seen the KLRT story before so I went and looked it up. I don't suppose our Glorious Leader will be holding a press conference anytime soon saying that Mr. Isadore could have been his great grandfather.

XNN

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> You apologized for the MURDER of a 107 year old man.
> 
> That's all I need to know about you.
> 
> Piss off.


I apologized for nothing. I was commenting on the facts that have been presented as well as my own personal experience. If more facts were shown that made me think the old dude was in the right I would say so. I'm not here to measure the size of my junk by displaying anti-police rhetoric blindly whenever I can. So far, the facts indicate that this wasn't a cut and dry scenario. I'm also not cheerleading the police and high5ing either. You made a rush to judgement statement saying that if the dude fired the gun then his wrist would break. Clearly, in your frenzy to lock down this thread w/ one mindset you leap-frogged the facts and missed the firing of the gun more than once and bungled your own theory about the relation of a discharged weapon to and by an elderly individual. I'm sorry for that tho. You won't gain any sympathy for this man by overlooking the scenario that took place (the factual timeline) plus the fact that he fired at police more than once. And, you won't gain any disdain for the police (your MO) by not admitting it was exceptionally foolish that the old dude not only pointed a gun at them but fired it more than once. And, your classless demeanor does nothing for your cause either.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Sorry but I'm not gonna cry a river over an old man getting shot since the entire incident started by him committing AA by pointing the gun at two people earlier on. If these people had broke in then I'd be completely on his side but that's not what this situation is indicating. I'm getting the picture of a senile, extremely aged man that isn't dealing with a full deck of cards but this completely hinges on who these people were to him that caused him to point a firearm on them. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not cool to have a gun pointed at you (in my case a 12 gauge) especially when you haven't done anything wrong and you're the non-violent type. And, it's not uncommon for a swat team to be called in such an instance and it's not like they didn't attempt to open dialogue. Also, invoking the Mayberry days where you didn't even cuff a person while expecting them to man up and walk to jail with honor is no longer the case so you can't expect police to live by those times. Frankly, if I'm doing my job and getting shot at I'm going to be less merciful in bending over backwards to see the situation comes out peaceful. Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.





> I apologized for nothing. I was commenting on the facts that have been presented as well as my own personal experience. If more facts were shown that made me think the old dude was in the right I would say so. I'm not here to measure the size of my junk by displaying anti-police rhetoric blindly whenever I can. So far, the facts indicate that this wasn't a cut and dry scenario. I'm also not cheerleading the police and high5ing either. You made a rush to judgement statement saying that if the dude fired the gun then his wrist would break. Clearly, in your frenzy to lock down this thread w/ one mindset you leap-frogged the facts and missed the firing of the gun more than once and bungled your own theory about the relation of a discharged weapon to and by an elderly individual. I'm sorry for that tho. You won't gain any sympathy for this man by overlooking the scenario that took place (the factual timeline) plus the fact that he fired at police more than once. And, you won't gain any disdain for the police (your MO) by not admitting it was exceptionally foolish that the old dude not only pointed a gun at them but fired it more than once. And, your classless demeanor does nothing for your cause either.


Right.  a 107 year old man deserved to be SWATted for this.  Me, my "classless demeanor", and ANYONE else with a sense of decency abhor your comments here.  READ YOUR OWN WORDS.  

ONE HUNDRED AND SEVEN.  Do you know anyone who's even 90 years old?  Do you understand how frail a human being becomes at that age?  There's nothing in the tiny little minds of the police or you apparently that could conceive of a way to defuse this situation that doesn't involve a grenade and a SWAT assault?  THERE ARE A HUNDRED THINGS THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT DID NOT END WITH THIS OLD MAN DEAD.  How $#@!ing simple do you have to be to not understand that?  

*This is EXHIBIT A in the case against the militarized police state*, and you are "Sorry", but not gonna cry a river over a 107 old man getting shot... 

You make me sick.  I'm ashamed that you and I share space at this website.

----------


## pcosmar

*There has got to be another Way*






----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police (as a concept) should not exist in a free society.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm



> *This article marshals extensive historical and legal evidence to show that modern policing is in many ways inconsistent with the original intent of America's founding documents. The author argues that the growth of modern policing has substantially empowered the state in a way the Framers would regard as abhorrent to their foremost principles.*

----------


## jkr

*the standing army vs. the native peoples in
THE STUPID BOWL!

CURRENT SCORES:*

*$#@! TEAMS 107
OLD PEOPLE, KIDS AND ANIMALS 1*

----------


## Athan

If a 107 year old man can hold up SWAT team... lol

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Again, there are variables here that need some discussion before it can be written off as a police-in-the-wrong scenario.


Fine. Links to the police reports are available at the local Pine Bluffs newspaper (the Pine Bluff Commercial). Its already clear that the initial spin of a hostage situation were a fabrication. The Commercial reports that when the police responded to the house the first time, that the occupant who called in the report and another where asked to leave the home until the police resolved the situation.

Aggressive outburst are not unknown in patients suffering a stroke. The person who was coming to move him to his new home described him as anxious. It seems the majority opinion of an acceptable response for irrational behaviour due to being deaf, diabetic shock, neurological casualties, and/or Tourettes is a bullet to the head by a black robed figure in body armor. This is a result of a militarized police.

The police rport states that the gentleman did not recognize his granddaughter. We have two reports that he was fine earlier in the morning. This suggest to me the onset of a neurological impairment of some type requiring an intervention other than a bullet to the head. There are, of course, other schools of thought.

XNN

----------


## pcosmar

*Questions persist after Ark. SWAT team fatally shoots 107-year-old man during weekend standoff*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...45a_story.html

Questions persist.

As well they should.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...details-emerge
http://www.katv.com/story/23385230/c...-wild-behavior

----------


## resme

bump




> A 107-year-old Arkansas man who died in a police standoff this weekend told officers months earlier that they would have to shoot him or throw him in jail before he went back home with his son-in-law, according to police reports obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press.
> 
> Monroe Isadore made the comments in June after he said his daughter and son-in-law didn't want him around, according to one of several police reports.
> 
> "Mr. Isadore stated we would have to shoot him or throw him jail before he went back home with" his son-in-law, one of the reports said. "Mr. Isadore stated he was a hundred and seven years old and GOD told him to do his will."
> 
> Neither Isadore's daughter nor son-in-law returned phone messages left Tuesday.
> 
> Isadore died on Saturday in Pine Bluff after he opened fire on police and authorities shot him.
> ...


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/q...n-107-20205992

----------


## tod evans

> Police have said an officer involved in the shooting has been placed on paid, administrative leave.





Every member of that hit-squad needs to be on death row.

----------


## XNavyNuke

From the Pine Bluff Commercial. Mayor shuts down public meeting after outburst by granddaughter.




> (Mayor) Hollingsworth called an end to the event when a woman — who identified herself as a granddaughter of Isadore and denounced the police handling of the confrontation while proclaiming that her grandfather should still be alive and preparing for his 108th birthday — engaged in a brief disagreement with Maxwell.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Fine. Links to the police reports are available at the local Pine Bluffs newspaper (the Pine Bluff Commercial). Its already clear that the initial spin of a hostage situation were a fabrication. The Commercial reports that when the police responded to the house the first time, that the occupant who called in the report and another where asked to leave the home until the police resolved the situation.
> 
> Aggressive outburst are not unknown in patients suffering a stroke. The person who was coming to move him to his new home described him as anxious. It seems the majority opinion of an acceptable response for irrational behaviour due to being deaf, diabetic shock, neurological casualties, and/or Tourettes is a bullet to the head by a black robed figure in body armor. This is a result of a militarized police.
> 
> The police rport states that the gentleman did not recognize his granddaughter. We have two reports that he was fine earlier in the morning. This suggest to me the onset of a neurological impairment of some type requiring an intervention other than a bullet to the head. There are, of course, other schools of thought.
> 
> XNN


+rep, beautifully stated.

The militarized police state does not stop to consider the why's the what's the when's and the how's.  Shoot first and ask questions later.  Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.  Officer safety.

----------


## mrsat_98

> The simple fact that they'll grease his old ass and get away with it...
> 
> The government is not going to hold its own agents liable unless they're forced to.





> Every member of that hit-squad needs to be on death row.


Jail the supervisors as well after they all read Haile vs Hinkle the part about not opening you door to a police investigation. F*cking Dumba$$ throw a chemical weapon in and get pissed that someone shoot backs. How stupid are these people.

----------


## Occam's Banana

*Gassing and Machine-Gunning a 107-Year-Old Man*

William Grigg weighs in @ LRC:  http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/09/w...-year-old-man/




> *The Pine Bluff PD: From Merely Dysfunctional to Dowright Deadly*
> 
> No tactical genius is necessary to bring about a bloodless end to a  standoff involving a 107-year-old man armed with a handgun and  surrounded by police officers inside an otherwise vacant house. All that  is necessary is a willingness on the part of the officers to accept a  minimal amount of risk, and a time horizon longer than a half hour. In  fact, only someone with a perverse appetite for gratuitous bloodshed  could arrange to end that confrontation with the violent death of the  centenarian suspect.
> 
> As it happens, the valiant men of the Pine Bluff, Arkansas Police Department’s SWAT team were equal to that task. That’s why 107-year-old Monroe Isadore was killed in a torrent of gunfire on the evening of September 7.
> 
> “It was a lot,” one witness told KHTV news,  referring to the number of shots fired by the SWAT team in the home  where Isadore had holed up. “I can’t even count on my hands.” Another  witness said that at least thirty rounds had been fired during the fatal  fusillade.
> 
> Isadore reportedly fired a couple of desultory shots at the SWAT  operators who inserted a tear gas grenade into the house, and then a few  more after the entry team flung a flash-bang grenade into the bedroom. Pauline Lewis,  who owns the home where Isadore was killed, told reporters that the  police “didn’t have a choice but to shoot him after they had put teargas  in and everything. He refused and he shot first.”
> ...


(emphasis mine)

... more at link ...

----------


## phill4paul

He interfered in dinner hour. Not that those involved didn't appreciate the O.T. But at some point you have to lay the smack-down. These are brave individuals and we should be glad that THEYE made it home to their family.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> That's actor Andy Samuel Griffith.
> I was referring to Sheriff Andrew Jackson "Andy" Taylor.
> The former portrayed the latter, but they're not the same person ...
> 
> 
> 
> And claws and scratches and $#@!s on the carpet. I much prefer fiction ...


TIL what a lousy housepet reality is, and that Andy Griffith was based on a real person.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ith-swat-team/
> 
> 
> Thought ya'll would really appreciate this update.


Yes, thanks.

----------


## XNavyNuke

Arkansas State Police refuse to conduct an independent investigation.

State Police Decline Investigation into 107-Year-Old's Shooting Death




> In a letter sent Wednesday to Jefferson County Prosecutor S. Kyle Hunter, ASP says they must decline his request because it was not submitted in a timely manner, and that since so much time has passed, any attempts to investigate would amount to "a style of investigation far outside accepted and sound law enforcement practices."


Well, it did happen Saturday. I wonder what the statute of limitations is in Arkansas for butchering a black centenarian? Clearly less than 96 hours.

XNN

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Arkansas State Police refuse to conduct an independent investigation.
> 
> State Police Decline Investigation into 107-Year-Old's Shooting Death
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it did happen Saturday. I wonder what the statute of limitations is in Arkansas for butchering a black centenarian? Clearly less than 96 hours.
> 
> XNN


Well I mean, obviously... right?  Exactly how long do you expect these poor public servants to hang on a thread??

----------


## Occam's Banana

> [...] any attempts to investigate would amount to "a style of investigation far outside accepted and sound law enforcement practices."


Well - we certainly can't have any of THAT, now, can we?! After all, it might divert precious resources from revenue-scavenging and storm-troopering (not to mention other "accepted and sound law enforcement practices") ...

----------


## XNavyNuke

Arkansas Judge issues gag order in Monroe Isadore case. TPTB are circling the wagons.

Order can be found here: http://www.todaysthv.com/assetpool/d...der9132013.pdf

Now the only question becomes are there any investigative journalists left in the South that are willing to risk jail time to discover the truth.

BTW. It looks like the judge that signed the order, Berlin Jones, ran unopposed in 2010 and will not come up again until 2016.

XNN

----------


## Lucille

> Arkansas State Police refuse to conduct an independent investigation.
> 
> State Police Decline Investigation into 107-Year-Old's Shooting Death
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it did happen Saturday. I wonder what the statute of limitations is in Arkansas for butchering a black centenarian? Clearly less than 96 hours.
> 
> XNN


Arkansas Sets 30-minute Statute of Limitations for Crimes Committed by Police
http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blo...by-police.html




> Seriously, I am not joking.  The Arkansas State Police apparently reserve the right not to consider any complaints of police brutality or mis-use of force if they are not filed within a half hour of the incident:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				    The killing led to a town hall meeting Monday, and the city prosecutor, Kyle Hunter, was assigned to investigate, saying his job was to determine whether the actions were justified. Hunter requested an investigation by the state police, who were not called in following the killing of the 107-year-old Isadore, but, theArkansas Times reports, state police declined Hunter’s request:
> 
> ...

----------


## XNavyNuke

A month late, Louis Farrakhan decides to muster his forces behind Monroe Isadore. 

Why did 107-year-old Monroe Isadore die?




> The community and his family responded with outrage that the police would kill such an elderly man.
> 
> I read the police report, Tyrone Lightfoot, Mr. Isadores grandson told The Final Call. Everyone was safe. Why would you shoot him? Hes 107-years-old. You had cameras on him. Why would you shoot him? Why send a White negotiator to deal with him? He told me so many slave stories. He doesnt deal with White people, said the grandson.
> 
> It was an unjustified killing. Police were flagged down to help, not to kill him. The police chief should be fired and the mayor. I couldnt believe it when my cousin Michelle called me at work to say that my grandfather was murdered by the police, he said.


Must be time to raise funds. 

XNN

----------


## tod evans

$#@!  Louis Farrakhan with a hot poker!

----------


## mrsat_98

http://www.thv11.com/news/article/28...d-by-SWAT-case

----------


## XNavyNuke

> http://www.thv11.com/news/article/28...d-by-SWAT-case


Thanks for the update. Here's about 3 minutes of video on the announcement.




> Barrett and McQuary were assigned to investigate the incident after Prosecuting Attorney S. Kyle Hunter stepped down.
> 
> “There was only one person that was acting inappropriately and that was Mr. Isadore when he fired five shots at police,” Barrett said.


http://widget.newsinc.com/_cfvp/play...adore-shooting

XNN

----------


## FindLiberty

That poor old fart probably could not even hear well enough to understand all those confusing shouted commands to drop his weapon and show his hands either. Maybe they started yelling warnings _after_ he was assassinated?  Or, he could have planned this whole exit SNAFU and was itch'n to go out with a bang ever since his 107th birthday party 'cause he couldn't see well enough to find, or exhale long enough to blow out all the candles on his birthday cake.

I'm glad that he did not hurt anyone and hope he had a good life up to the end. Maybe something positive will somehow result from the publicity this is getting. Condolences go out to the family.

In the future, maybe a "robocop" could end this kind of standoff (with a 107 year old) peacefully, if the new socialized medicine program even allows people live that long.

----------


## XNavyNuke

Monroe Isadore's family refuses to let the man's death drop.

Community Upset Over Investigation Into 107-Year-Old Man's Death




> Hubanks said, "Once the door was opened, that barricaded door was opened, he had the option to put the gun down. If he did, he would be alive now."
> 
> But Foster says that shouldn't be the case.
> 
> She feels officers should've chosen another option.
> 
> She said, "To say that justice has been served, it hasn't been served. We're not going to have any closure until justice is served."
> 
> Isadore's family members did not say if they will file a lawsuit against the city of Pine Bluff.
> ...




Pine Bluff Police Chief Jeff Eubanks discusses SWAT Team actions in shooting of 107-year-old Monroe Isadore




> One of the main questions from residents was why the SWAT team didn't wait for the 107-year-old to fall asleep.
> 
> "Yes, we could have waited; however what I saw on video, and this is after the second time that he fired on officers, was it looked like he was opening the gun or manipulating the weapon," said Eubanks, referring to a camera placed inside the man's room during the standoff. "The gun is down, out of view, and it looks like it was in the position where he was reloading."


XNN

----------


## tod evans

No amount of bureaucratic blather can justify shooting the old guy.

Hang these cops high!

----------


## JK/SEA

> In the future, maybe a "robocop" could end this kind of standoff (with a 107 year old) peacefully, if the new socialized medicine program even allows people live that long.


they did send robocops. They can look almost human.

----------


## Cissy

I'm betting it is far more likely that the poor old man set the firearm down because he forgot about the threat. Unfortunately for him, his murderers were not likewise senile.

----------


## phill4paul

Update: Attorneys for 107-Year-Old Killed by Police Play Shooting Video for Community




> PINE BLUFF, AR--A Pine Bluff family persists in their fight for answers in the shooting death of a 107-year-old man. 
> 
> It's been roughly seven months since Pine Bluff police shot and killed Monroe Isadore after a lengthy standoff. Now attorneys for his family are trying to rally the community with video of the shooting. 
> 
> Benjamin Crump, the attorney for the family of slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin, is in Pine Bluff this week joining local council, Anthony Walker, in representing Monroe Isadore's family. 
> 
> Inside a conference room at the Plaza hotel, Crump revealed video he says shows police could have avoided shooting and killing Monroe Isadore.
> 
> "This video certainly shows a lot of vivid details of the final moments of Monroe Isadore's life and whether or not the Pine Bluff police department could have used less intrusive measures than to kill a 107-year-old man in the bed," says Crump. 
> ...


Video at link: http://www.fox16.com/story/d/story/a...I0CJQE1gDxZrrQ

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It's been roughly seven months since Pine Bluff police shot and killed Monroe Isadore after a lengthy standoff


We ain't got time for this.

Do it!

----------


## tod evans

> A special prosecutor found the officers acted within department policy and chose not to file charges.


Of course he did....

----------


## XNavyNuke

Thanks for the update.
XNN

----------


## XNavyNuke

***

----------


## fisharmor

Well, good work, you $#@!ing dipshits.
Just tie the whole thing in with Trayvon and destroy any non-black-community support you might have had.

This case isn't going anywhere now.

Morons.

----------


## SeanTX

> Well, good work, you $#@!ing dipshits.
> Just tie the whole thing in with Trayvon and destroy any non-black-community support you might have had.
> 
> This case isn't going anywhere now.
> 
> Morons.


Oh, well, it's not like it was going anywhere anyway (they never do).

----------


## jmdrake

> How would Sheriff Taylor have handled this?
> 
> 
> 
> I miss Mayberry...

----------


## TheTexan

> Would have waited until the old guy fell asleep, took the gun away and maybe got him a glass of warm milk.


Cops don't have time to just sit around and wait for the situation to calm down.  They have important things to do, like saving lives.

----------


## XNavyNuke

Thanks for the up-vote Gunny. I can't believe that its been so long ago on the story. Using the Google Fu this morning I went back and looked for the latest update on Monroe Isadore. It looks like the officers involved got a Christmas present at the end of the year.

*Federal judge throws out lawsuit in Isadore case*




> December 17, 2015 - 11:56am A federal lawsuit filed against Pine Bluff Police Chief Jeff Hubanks, Officer Brad Vilches and the city stemming from the shooting death of 107-year-old Monroe Isadore in 2013 has been dismissed.
> 
> On Monday, Federal Judge Kristine Baker granted the city’s request for summary judgment, ruling that neither Hubanks nor Vilchers violated Isadore’s rights under the Fourth Amendment.
> 
> The lawsuit had been filed by two of Isadore’s daughters, Marilyn Monroe Howard and Paula Aguilar, who contended that “his right to be free from excessive force under the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution was violated and he was the victim of battery under Arkansas law.”


This was in the local press. The ruling evidently never got picked up by the national news media. I guess that would explain the lack of righteous outrage by the Black Lives Matter folks. Its kinda sad commentary that if a story doesn't make it past the small town newspaper then no one seems to care about Constitutional violations. If there was EVER a moment epitomizing all that's wrong with a militarized law enforcement, it is the killing of Monroe Isadore.

XNN

----------


## fisharmor

> If there was EVER a moment epitomizing all that's wrong with a militarized law enforcement, it is the killing of Monroe Isadore.
> 
> XNN


Militarized?  As in, you're saying this is a recent problem that's only been a problem since SWAT teams arrived on the scene?
So you're saying that me and Google search and 5 minutes can't find any cases pre 1980 or so where an uppity negro got iced by cops who went on to live long and happy lives?

Militarization is not the problem.  Cops are the problem.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Nope, I bet we get no extra answers.  I would actually stake money on it.
> Someone let the cat out of the bag and there's a public report on it, but we're mysteriously going to get nothing else.


We will get no answers now because there will be no trial. Darn shame no one here would take you up on a bet.
XNN

----------

