# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns >  Discussion of candidates for Iowa US Senate. Harkin not running re-election in Iowa

## eleganz

I spoke to a fellow (hardcore) supporter from New York, he says he talked to Kent Sorenson for and the flame is there, he just needs to know he has some support.

If you remember Kent, he was the Iowa state senator that was in Bachmann's camp in Iowa, left and endorsed Ron Paul right before the Iowa Caucuses last year.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft...26988930674946

Harkin leaving:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...dy-elses-turn/

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## sailingaway

isnt' there a current scandal about him accepting money from Bachmann's campaign through some subterfuge? A recent FEC complaint by Bachmann staffers? (And Bachmann told the media he left her campaign because he was getting money from RON, which really hurt Ron at that time because those leaving her and deciding where to go believed her.  Nonesense.)

I understand three are looking at it, two were ex campaign staffers of Ron's campaign.  I was going to find out who the third was.  Sorenson backed Bachmann instead of Ron before Ames....even though Ron had endorsed him.

What is in his record that makes him better than the others?

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## eleganz

> isnt' there a current scandal about him accepting money from Bachmann's campaign through some subterfuge? A recent FEC complaint by Bachmann staffers? (And Bachmann told the media he left her campaign because he was getting money from RON, which really hurt Ron at that time because those leaving her and deciding where to go believed her.  Nonesense.)
> 
> I understand three are looking at it, two were ex campaign staffers of Ron's campaign.  I was going to find out who the third was.  Sorenson backed Bachmann instead of Ron before Ames....even though Ron had endorsed him.
> 
> What is in his record that makes him better than the others?


From what I'm hearing right now there was a sticky situation that I don't think is my place to talk about.

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## sailingaway

OK, just wondering why he is better than the others considering it.  I agree we should get behind someone, but was just wondering how you came down for him.

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## John of Des Moines

I knew him before '07 and Ron Paul.

He's no longer on my short list.  

Sorry can't trust him.  

*Jason Schultz* is one on my list.

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## Matt Collins

I'm hearing lots of chatter, and although I can't say from who, but it  is more likely than not that one of the following individuals will run  for US Senate given Tom Harkin's retirement - 


Drew Ivers
AJ Spiker
David Fischer
Kent Sorenson


Save up your money, 2014 and 2016 are going to be expensive but fruitful  years for the liberty movement! Remember, you heard it here first

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## itshappening

it has to be a Republican who has enough appeal to win statewide. 

I don't think the congress people can win outside of their district.

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## sailingaway

> I knew him before '07 and Ron Paul.
> 
> He's no longer on my short list.  
> 
> Sorry can't trust him.  
> 
> *Jason Schultz* is one on my list.


Thanks, I'll look into Jason Schultz, I hadn't heard of him.

--
Hm. I wanted to add myself to his newsletter so I could just generally see what he is up to.... I didn't mean hard copy, but they ask for zip code, presumably to make sure you are in his district, for postage franking purposes, and I am not even in Iowa.   I'll look at the other stuff, though.

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## carmaphob

> I knew him before '07 and Ron Paul.
> 
> He's no longer on my short list.  
> 
> Sorry can't trust him.  
> 
> *Jason Schultz* is one on my list.


I agree. I can't trust him.

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## John of Des Moines

> Thanks, I'll look into Jason Schultz, I hadn't heard of him.
> 
> --
> Hm. I wanted to add myself to his newsletter so I could just generally see what he is up to.... I didn't mean hard copy, but they ask for zip code, presumably to make sure you are in his district, for postage franking purposes, and I am not even in Iowa.   I'll look at the other stuff, though.


Put in your regular zip.  It's an email so it's not like costs anything.  Lobbyists do it all the time.

Any of the three I'd support:

Drew Ivers
AJ Spiker
David Fischer

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## sailingaway

I remember hearing Fischer's name before, but I can't place him.  Who is he?

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## John of Des Moines

> I remember hearing Fischer's name before, but I can't place him.  Who is he?


Fischer is "Dave" here on the boards.  One of the first 2 or 3 to join my meet-up back in 07.  Dave is now the I-GOP co-chair.  Good guy.

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## Bruno

I don't trust him either.  

David Fischer, yes, good guy.

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## Dystopian

How about we get behind an actual liberty candidate and not another Ted Cruz?

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## JoshLowry

> How about we get behind an actual liberty candidate and not another Ted Cruz?


Agreed.

How about you Bruno?  You're all american!

Fischer would be good too probably.

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## sailingaway

I think Bruno would be great!

But if our folks in Iowa like Dave, maybe we should get more background on him.  Right now, with not too much input yet, he seems to be winning....

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## Uriah

David Fischer's political facebook page https://www.facebook.com/FischerForF...ref=ts&fref=ts

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## Bruno

> Agreed.
> 
> How about you Bruno?  You're all american!
> 
> Fischer would be good too probably.


Thanks, you're too kind.   

I have far too many skeletens!!

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## Bastiat's The Law

I'm not sold on Sorenson.  We have better people in Iowa.

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## Uriah

Getting wind that Bill Salier might run. This is the most info I can find on him. http://theiowarepublican.com/2010/le...anatorial-bid/

I don't know much about him.

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## eleganz

I didn't know there was this much disdain(?) for this guy.

I shared because a friend in NY knew him and was excited for it.  Is there a chance Fischer would run?

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## XTreat

I didn't know Drew or David were interested but they would certainly have my support. I like AJ in charge of the IA GOP. I could back Kent, but not over die hards like David or Drew.

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## sailingaway

David seems to have the most support.

I don't know the story with Sorenson, but I did feel he shafted Ron who had even spoken at a fundraiser for him and whose grass roots were a big part of getting him elected, because he thought Bachmann had a better chance.  Ron had a REAL chance at Iowa, and that splitting of the tea party hurt.  But mostly there are just a lot of question marks for me about him.  I trust our folks in Iowa, and if they are saying David is the guy, that sounds good to me.

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## itshappening

What is Fischer's background?  There is no public bio of him anywhere.

It would be a complete long shot if he's unknown even to RP supporters like ourselves. 

Sorenson is at least elected since 2008 and has beaten incumbent Democrats.

You can't be virtually unknown and win a senate seat unless you're very wealthy.

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## John of Des Moines

> What is Fischer's background?  There is no public bio of him anywhere.
> 
> It would be a complete long shot if he's unknown even to RP supporters like ourselves. 
> 
> Sorenson is at least elected since 2008 and has beaten incumbent Democrats.
> 
> You can't be virtually unknown and win a senate seat unless you're very wealthy.



I don't think Dave Fischer would be actually interested in running but I haven't talked to him.  It's still really, really, early to say who'd throw their hat in the ring.  

Sorenson firebombed numerous bridges when he supported Bachmann.   Dr. Paul had endorsed him and came to town to do so with many Paul people working for Sorenson in his '10 Senate race, walking parades, lit drops, etc.  It pissed them off when they read in the paper Sorenson was supporting Bachmann and not placing a call or two to his main Paul people in his campaign with the news ahead of time.  (I was not active in his campaign.)  

I spoke to him at the '08 Straw Poll - his nonverbal reaction to my questions said it all.  Eyes darting about, pupils closing up, a lot of nervous gestures.

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## itshappening

> I don't think Dave Fischer would be actually interested in running but I haven't talked to him.  It's still really, really, early to say who'd throw their hat in the ring.  
> 
> Sorenson firebombed numerous bridges when he supported Bachmann.   Dr. Paul had endorsed him and came to town to do so with many Paul people working for Sorenson in his '10 Senate race, walking parades, lit drops, etc.  It pissed them off when they read in the paper Sorenson was supporting Bachmann and not placing a call or two to his main Paul people in his campaign with the news ahead of time.  (I was not active in his campaign.)  
> 
> I spoke to him at the '08 Straw Poll - his nonverbal reaction to my questions said it all.  Eyes darting about, pupils closing up, a lot of nervous gestures.


I'm not too concerned about presidential politics when it comes to finding a candidate for Senate.

Sorenson is elected since 2008 and would be our best shot. 

An unknown is not going to the U.S Senate unless they have millions of dollars.

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## John of Des Moines

> I'm not too concerned about presidential politics when it comes to finding a candidate for Senate.
> 
> Sorenson is elected since 2008 and would be our best shot *at getting stabbed in the back*. 
> 
> An unknown is not going to the U.S Senate unless they have millions of dollars.


There fixed it for you.   

You're Welcome.

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## itshappening

> There fixed it for you.   
> 
> You're Welcome.


I dont know if he will stab us in the back if we got him elected to the U.S Senate .

There are many candidates worth supporting who didn't, for one reason or another, support Ron Paul.  Cuccinelli in Virginia springs to mind who was backing Romney but you won't find a better candidate for governor of that state. 

I don't see much else out there in Iowa who could mount a successful campaign for this seat beyond the congressmen who I don't think will play well outside their district and may not want to risk it.  Otherwise this seat is going to go to a well funded Democrat so we might as well find someone who has the kind of background Sorenson has i.e elected and with a record at beating Democrats.

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## JoshLowry

> I dont know if he will stab us in the back if we got him elected to the U.S Senate .
> 
> There are many candidates worth supporting who didn't, for one reason or another, support Ron Paul.  Cuccinelli in Virginia springs to mind who was backing Romney but you won't find a better candidate for governor of that state.


None of us know for sure how someone will perform when all the pressures have been applied.

However, you suggest the guy who was backing Romney over the guy who supported Ron Paul in '07?   Where is the caution in that?

Dave could win Iowa.

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## itshappening

> None of us know for sure how someone will perform when all the pressures have been applied.
> 
> However, you suggest the guy who was backing Romney over the guy who supported Ron Paul in '07?   Where is the caution in that?
> 
> Dave could win Iowa.


I think it's rather flippant to say Fischer could win.  No one knows who he is, there's no public bio of him anywhere ! 

It's not easy to win a US Senate race, it takes millions of dollars and usually some kind of track record for the desired candidate especially in a primary where a base of support, no matter how small, is a good starting point.  

Sorenson is elected since 2008 and has beaten incumbent Democrats so his constituents obviously identify with him and he's battle tested. 

Whether he can raise the money or not is another matter the fact is he has a much better shot than someone who isn't in that position.

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## Liberty & Justice

ya sorenson is not to be trusted. I can't speak for anyone else and if they'd be any good  but definitely not sorenson. definitely dont want to get near him, with his ongoing legal troubles.

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## Anti-Neocon

I agree with itshappening.  We've got to win this, and Sorenson has the best chance.  I don't consider his Bachmann endorsement to be a true stab in the back, cause he did say he endorsed Bachmann over Paul because Bachmann asked and Paul didn't.

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## Bastiat's The Law

Sorenson waffled between Bachmann and Paul until her campaign imploded at the end.  It seemed opportunistic to me.

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## SpreadOfLiberty

I say better than nothing, however would prefer somebody more trustworthy.

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## Bastiat's The Law

I could be wrong, but Sorenson's actions don't scream out "true believer" to me.  I think he'd have a tough time galvanizing the liberty movement behind him.  We have to find someone better.

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## sailingaway

It sounded like that Dave guy has the inside track.

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## John of Des Moines

Listen to Senator Mark Chelgren speak with Jan Michelson about the Senate seat.  (About 20 minutes in. (Chelgren heads up the legislature's constitutional caucus.)

Then listen to Jan's previous podcast with Sorenson then with Senator Zaun.  Who's interested in liberty.

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## sailingaway

Well, some people talk a good game.  I mean, heck, Perry and Gingrich wanted to abolish the Fed, remember?

So I'm trusting you guys in Iowa to point us towards the ones who really mean what they say.

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## Uriah

After redistricting, Mark Chelgren became my state senator. He hasn't had a bad vote as far as I know. He endorsed Bachmann but his rhetoric and votes are pretty stellar.

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## sailingaway

> After redistricting, Mark Chelgren became my state senator. He hasn't had a bad vote as far as I know. He endorsed Bachmann but his rhetoric and votes are pretty stellar.


Is he up for running?  How would you grade him against Dave Fischer (the other one you guys seem to like)?  What about issues like the Patriot Act and NDAA? Bachmann was awful on those, and they don't really come up on the state level.  Do we have any indication of either of their feelings on that?

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## Uriah

> Is he up for running?  How would you grade him against Dave Fischer (the other one you guys seem to like)?  What about issues like the Patriot Act and NDAA? Bachmann was awful on those, and they don't really come up on the state level.  Do we have any indication of either of their feelings on that?


I don't think he is up for running. He seems to be focused on state issues. He has only served two years as a state senator. He has little name recognition state wide. Plus, half of his current district is new to him due to redistricting. He has limited himself to serve two terms. If he wins reelection he could run for higher office in 2018. 

I'm unsure of his view on NDAA and Patriot Act. He describes himself as a constitutional libertarian. I think he leans more social conservative than the typical Paul supporter. In the interview posted above he expresses his support for Brad Zaun for US Senate.

Below, Brad Zaun at 2012 GOP state convention. This was my first introduction to him. He ran for US congress recently so there are videos of him on youtube. Zaun publicly said he was interested in the US Senate seat.





A couple videos of Mark Chelgren.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MfgS1ekrGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v...ture=endscreen

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## sailingaway

Thanks.  He sounds good.  We should keep an eye on him, in any event.

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## John of Des Moines

> Thanks.  He sounds good.  We should keep an eye on him, in any event.


Chelgren is a good guy, not a lawyer but still runs the legislature's constitutional caucus.  I'd support him.

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## Uriah

Sounds like at least three candidates will announce now that Steve King is out. Paul Lunde, Joni Ernst, and Matt Whitaker have all indicated that they would like to run. I don't think any of them are a liberty candidate but I am unsure about Lunde. I've never heard of him. This could be a crowded field and that helps us. 

Now we need a liberty candidate to jump in the race.

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## Spoa

> Sounds like at least three candidates will announce now that Steve King is out. Paul Lunde, Joni Ernst, and Matt Whitaker have all indicated that they would like to run. I don't think any of them are a liberty candidate but I am unsure about Lunde. I've never heard of him. This could be a crowded field and that helps us. 
> 
> Now we need a liberty candidate to jump in the race.


Actually, Whitaker has said he would like to follow in Rand's footsteps and be a partner of his and Cruz in the US Senate.

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## Uriah

> Actually, Whitaker has said he would like to follow in Rand's footsteps and be a partner of his and Cruz in the US Senate.



Yeah, just found that. http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/d...senate/article

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## supermario21

Well that's good. Plus this guy seems popular and well-polished.

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## sailingaway

> Actually, Whitaker has said he would like to follow in Rand's footsteps and be a partner of his and Cruz in the US Senate.


A lot of people will say things to get support when you have a power base there.  Is he credible in the role?

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## pulp8721

> A lot of people will say things to get support when you have a power base there.  Is he credible in the role?


http:/ /theiowarepublican.com/2012/matt-whitaker-to-represent-zach-edwards/




> The Associated Press has reported that Des Moines attorney Matt Whitaker is representing Zach Edwards, the man accused of stealing the identity of Iowa Secretary of State Matt Shultz in an effort to falsely implicate Schultz in illegal activity.
> 
> *Whitaker is a former U.S. Attorney under the Bush Administration. He was the Republican nominee for State Treasurer in 2002. More recently, he served as the Iowa campaign chairman for both Tim Pawlentys and Rick Perrys presidential campaigns and has since supported Mitt Romney.*
> *Edwards is an odd client for the politically ambitious Whitaker. Many Iowa Republicans are disturbed by Edwards actions. Many believe that Whitaker is interested in running for office again, but defending a Democrat operative who tried to steal a Republican office holders identity would surely become an issue in a primary.*

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## Uriah

> Actually, Whitaker has said he would like to follow in Rand's footsteps and be a partner of his and Cruz in the US Senate.



He didn't actually say that. Listen here, starts about 12:20

http://www.whoradio.com/player/?mid=...m_name=podcast

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## Peace&Freedom

Harkin won re-election by 54% in 2002, and by 64% in 2008. Even counting for the Obama factor in '08, it gives me the impression the state is trending Democratic, increasingly. As I suggested in other situations like this, why not get behind a libertarian candidate who's willing to run as a pro-liberty/tea party candidate in the Democratic primary, instead of attempting to swim uphill trying to elect a Republican in a Democratic trending state?

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## Bastiat's The Law

We don't have the resources to infiltrate the democratic party, and besides, it would be terrible strategy.

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## cindy25

Harkin is popular but so is Grassley 

Iowa is, and will remain for a long time, a toss up state.  

It does have an anti-war tradition, maybe Kucinich could move there and run for the senate.

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## sailingaway

> Harkin won re-election by 54% in 2002, and by 64% in 2008. Even counting for the Obama factor in '08, it gives me the impression the state is trending Democratic, increasingly. As I suggested in other situations like this, why not get behind a libertarian candidate who's willing to run as a pro-liberty/tea party candidate in the Democratic primary, instead of attempting to swim uphill trying to elect a Republican in a Democratic trending state?


Do we have a name?

I could get behind Robin k in Washington as a Dem if he ran, despite my differences with him on some issues. I think he got bitten bad by the r3VOLution and I like that in a person.

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## Uriah

> Harkin won re-election by 54% in 2002, and by 64% in 2008. Even counting for the Obama factor in '08, it gives me the impression the state is trending Democratic, increasingly. As I suggested in other situations like this, why not get behind a libertarian candidate who's willing to run as a pro-liberty/tea party candidate in the Democratic primary, instead of attempting to swim uphill trying to elect a Republican in a Democratic trending state?


As an Iowan, Iowa is a tossup state.

Harkin ran against Christopher Reed in 2008. Who is that? Exactly.

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## Peace&Freedom

> We don't have the resources to infiltrate the democratic party, and besides, it would be terrible strategy.


You mean terrible, compared to_ running a Republican to take a seat that has been easily held by Democrats for 30 years?_ Even when the opponent spent a lot of money against the incumbent in 2002, Harkin still won decisively. Where is the _election result_ evidence that Iowa is a toss-up state when it comes to US Senate? Exactly. The suggestion I made does not involve infiltrating the Democratic Party (or the Republican party, for that matter), but simply approaching a local Democrat who supported Paul in 2008 or 2012 about running (check the local meet-up and donation lists for a start). 

Failing that, there is a LP in Iowa, and a libertarian activist could be quickly recruited to run in the Democratic primary. That's not resource intensive, that's as little as one person making a few calls. The point is, stop ignoring the way the district/state trends, which leads to self-defeating plans about running low percentage campaigns. Let somebody lift a finger to field liberty people from either big party based on lists already available, or borrow the LP or CP people to run as either Democrats or Republicans, depending on the opening. Let's not leave half of the winnable open seat opportunities on the table.

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