# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  Ronstock 2011?

## Xander Crews

I saw a small discussion about this somewhere on here, but it wasn't the main thread topic... did a search, could not find any real discussion on a Ronstock right before the Ames straw poll.

I like the idea that someone had of meeting up at a campground, setting up tents, bring instruments/bands (Nothing major) and having a good time.  And then going into Ames and supporting Ron Paul.

Is there already a thread on this?

Ideas?

I am living in Colorado but I grew up in Iowa... I would so go out there for that, and I could bring a huge group of friends.

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## TheViper

Welcome to the community and a fine idea.

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## Thargok

The problem is that showing up with people at Ames doesn't help the voter turnout, which is what you need to win.  If you aren't an Iowa resident you might as well be going to the beach for Ron Paul.  Instead of spending money to travel up there, you could better help the cause by sending the money you would spend to the campaign, they are already buying airtime to get the word out on Ron, which is something you cannot do by simply going to the event.

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## Elwar

I believe several people were looking for a campground and found one close to Ames...not sure if it is filled or not.

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## TheViper

> *The problem is that showing up with people at Ames doesn't help the voter turnout*, which is what you need to win.  If you aren't an Iowa resident you might as well be going to the beach for Ron Paul.  Instead of spending money to travel up there, you could better help the cause by sending the money you would spend to the campaign, they are already buying airtime to get the word out on Ron, which is something you cannot do by simply going to the event.


True but it certainly would gain lots of media attention which can help sway votes in Iowa and later on.

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## Romulus

> The problem is that showing up with people at Ames doesn't help the voter turnout, which is what you need to win.  If you aren't an Iowa resident you might as well be going to the beach for Ron Paul.  Instead of spending money to travel up there, you could better help the cause by sending the money you would spend to the campaign, they are already buying airtime to get the word out on Ron, which is something you cannot do by simply going to the event.


There goes my Ronapaloza idea.

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## LibertyEagle

*The campaign has asked us NOT to attend the Iowa Straw Poll if we do not live in Iowa.*

Doing so, will not have a positive impact.

They instead have asked us to please support the projects they would like to do in Iowa and to volunteer to do some calling.

http://www.iowaforronpaul.com/

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## newyearsrevolution08

I don't know what would get out the younger vote than a concert of some sort. Who cares if they are not IN the state? That is a b.s. arguement to say the least.

What might get new voters or voters to switch repub and vote for ron paul?

A: A big political rally to get everyone in the state who likes ron paul together?
B: A big ass RonStock concert where many are just going FOR the music and inturn get to be WOKEN UP without having to go TO a boring ass political event.

I wouldn't call it Ronstock though, I would have it grassroots BUT ron paul and others would be there. End up getting everyone dem, repub and all the variations and everything in between there.

I don't think we need to have every event to where it is so "ron paul'd" its almost funny. We can have a "Liberty Fest" ahd have like minded bands, speakers, RON PAUL and so forth sign up.

It would be great to sign up new voters or switch voters, grassroots style fun at its best.

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## LibertyEagle

*Again, the campaign specifically asked that only Iowa residents attend the Iowa Straw Poll. * 

There were adverse consequences last time around that they would rather not repeat.

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## parocks

I would think that the event should be closer to the straw poll physically, on the day of the straw poll, and it would include top local drawing bands.  Bands that could draw people from Ames (perhaps, if we can be confident, via demographic targeting or other means, that they would help Ron Paul overall), or bands that would most certainly entertain.  

Easy enough to do.  Go to a place where they have bands.  And hand them money.  Hand bands money.  Done.

Frisky Dingo was a fine show.

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## CaseyJones

are you guys being willfully obtuse? the campaign has asked for no out of staters to be in iowa please respect this request

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## parocks

A big concert?  No.  Small concerts, which cost $500 or less, and which are designed to appeal to locals, yes.

$500 gets "A RON PAUL FREE SHOW" for anybody, anywhere.  Not a big deal,  not a "palooza", not designed to draw Ron Paul supporters from Colorado.
But just a Ron Paul Free Show in a town.  And 1 or 2 or 3 grassroots volunteers or official campaign can get up there, with a stump speech, and get the data of the new people that are there.

Not one big deal, but lots and lots of small deals.   




> There goes my Ronapaloza idea.

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## Bern

Seems to me that a Ronstock type event would provide fertile ground for agent provacatuers to wreak havoc and shenanigans.

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## parocks

There should be Ron Paul Free Shows all over the place.  Just go to a bar that has bands and say "we want a Ron Paul Free Show".  Here is money.  I called the band you have scheduled.  They're into it.  We're going to pay their guarantee.  And we're going to make the show free.  And everyone now agrees that the show will now be promoted as RON PAUL FREE SHOW with band 1, band 2, band 3.

We don't need to draw Ron Paul supporters from out of state to sit in a field.  But we can gather together locals with quality free music and a minimal amount of Constitution talk.  Get their data, try to get them enthused, talk to them, get them to the straw poll, or just get them id'd for whatever caucus or primary they have going on.




> I don't know what would get out the younger vote than a concert of some sort. Who cares if they are not IN the state? That is a b.s. arguement to say the least.
> 
> What might get new voters or voters to switch repub and vote for ron paul?
> 
> A: A big political rally to get everyone in the state who likes ron paul together?
> B: A big ass RonStock concert where many are just going FOR the music and inturn get to be WOKEN UP without having to go TO a boring ass political event.
> 
> I wouldn't call it Ronstock though, I would have it grassroots BUT ron paul and others would be there. End up getting everyone dem, repub and all the variations and everything in between there.
> 
> ...

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## parocks

Right, but we have them outsmarted.

We often do stuff much worse than they could think of, and we're thinking it's a good idea.

Any large event, any stock or palooza, would become huge if a band like Muse decides they want to play it.
20 weird or $#@!ty liberty bands in a cornfield is sad.

But what most people don't realize (except people in the music biz) is that the money to make a show happen, especially in a place where shows typically happen,
is very small.  A good original band can cost $100.  Get 3 good original bands.  They just have to promise not to bad mouth Ron Paul.  Really easy, really simple, requiring about $500 per show.  






> Seems to me that a Ronstock type event would provide fertile ground for agent provacatuers to wreak havoc and shenanigans.

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## Paulistinian

RonStock is better suited for converting Democrats into Republicans for later primaries, Oregon, Washington, California...  Rather than in Iowa before a straw poll. There was an event in LA before the last Presidential election that was a rock the vote sort of event. They had Rage Against the Machine and popular hiphop bands playing. Everyone who was there who wasnt registered, registered Democrat to vote for Obama.  If we were to organize a smaller event, a Ronstock or Ron-a-Paul-ooza it needs to be aimed at young, unregistered voters and disenfranchised Democrats.

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## Badger Paul

_"There were adverse consequences last time around that they would rather not repeat. "
_

Like what? I'd agree if you were from California or New Hampshire you're probably better off saving your money. But I live well within a day's driving distance of Ames. I've been to two straw polls and found plenty to do to help the campaigns I was working for. There's nothing wrong with having those who can make a day trip to Ames by car come and help if the campaign needs around the tent or to be the crowd on the floor of the Hilton Coliseum or to parade, who up signs and pass out Slim Jims to voters along the way. Or monitor voting as well (which is what I did for Buchanan in 1999). If you come a day earlier, you pass stuff out at the Iowa State Fair in Des Moines too. 

A Ronstock on the ISU campus, or a campground would be a great idea to rally Iowa youth along with being a party for grassroots workers. We can set radio broadcasts from there like did four years ago just outside the bar we were in and have local TV news footage (always important). If you have a big event that can bring in people from the surrounding area, it will be a great way to sign people up for the Straw Poll who haven't done so already.

I'm starting to get a little preturbed at people appearing on every idea thread to shoot it down like they're sentry robots. Nothing the grassroots does is going to be "officially approved" by the campaign so just shut up about it. Yes, I agree some ideas ( like the blimp) are silly and yes long distance travelers would be better off funding some of the Iowa projects. But Midwesterners and Upper Southerner volunteers can help the campaign increase its reach in Iowa. They're not going wreck the cause because technically they are "out-of-state", they're a part of the same region. As Wisconsinite, I'm not going to feel like fish out of water in Iowa nor will people from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Oklahoma, Missouri or Arkansas or even Colorado for that matter.

I don't recall the officially campaign ever bluntly saying "Do Not Enter Iowa Whatever You Do". Obviously they want people to contribute and do other things like phone calling first rather than have them run widly around the state doing anything they please and I understand that. I not irked at them. I'm irked at people who claim to speak for them, trying to tell other people they have no rank over what to do.  Hopefully I'll be at Ames this year just like four years ago doing no more than saying "Vote for Ron Paul." and hopefully celebrating a great success with my fellow Paulians. And since still have the freedom to travel, I intend to do so.

If you want to keep the out-of-state contingent down, again at least outside the Midwest and Upper South, I would suggest you be more pursuasive than "No, You Can't Do That." I myself and others a little tired of being considered a liability because we happened not to live in Iowa even though we support RP all the same and are hardly "disrupters" or hooligans and are close by to offer some assistance. 

Well I've spoken my piece. I not trying to start a flame war nor am I mad at the campaign at all. I'm just venting a little frustration, that's all, no more, no less.

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## Xander Crews

As I mentioned, I grew up in Iowa.  This is where my huge group of friends would be from, a Ronstock would give me an opportunity to get the word out among Iowa college students... who vote.

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## parocks

There was a Ron Paul Bash at Dragonfly Club in Harrisburg, PA on 12/15/07.  We did well in Central Pa months later.

Attaching Ron Paul's name to a legit show at a legit venue confers legitimacy.  And it's cheap, and it doesn't require much effort.
And there's really no downside.




> RonStock is better suited for converting Democrats into Republicans for later primaries, Oregon, Washington, California...  Rather than in Iowa before a straw poll. There was an event in LA before the last Presidential election that was a rock the vote sort of event. They had Rage Against the Machine and popular hiphop bands playing. Everyone who was there who wasnt registered, registered Democrat to vote for Obama.  If we were to organize a smaller event, a Ronstock or Ron-a-Paul-ooza it needs to be aimed at young, unregistered voters and disenfranchised Democrats.

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## parocks

Well, instead of a Ronstock, a Ron Paul free show.  Which takes place somewhere at some time.  It's not a big deal.  It's not something that would draw anyone from out of state, except the people organizing it, and there wouldn't have to be many.




> As I mentioned, I grew up in Iowa.  This is where my huge group of friends would be from, a Ronstock would give me an opportunity to get the word out among Iowa college students... who vote.

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## newyearsrevolution08

Alright then,

if you don't want to argue whether it is a good idea or not then lets take it one step further.

Who here can actually PUT ON A ronstock SIZED event? Or wait, who here HAS put on something of this size and if so what?

I think once we realize NO ONE here odds are has we need to take this simply as "an idea" and stop fighting over whether or not it could or would do a damn thing for any straw poll or vote in general. It makes no sense.

so who can get this done?
what bands can you contact or you know?
who do you have for the stage, security?
licensing, fees, insurance ?
odds are there would be ALOT of $#@! needed right?

I would totally assume so.

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## Paulistinian

I used to run an art gallery in Pomona, CA... I still have a few friends down there and in L.A. and would probably be able to secure a nice venue for a good rate.  I also have some friends who are associated with some of the better known punkrock bands. It is possible we could get Rancid to play... If this were further along I would have no problem asking. Two of my best friends are opening for Rancid this september in their California tour.  There is also a few bands out there that have written Ron Paul inspired songs and I'm sure they can be tracked down and would be interested.

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## newyearsrevolution08

> I used to run an art gallery in Pomona, CA... I still have a few friends down there and in L.A. and would probably be able to secure a nice venue for a good rate.  I also have some friends who are associated with some of the better known punkrock bands. It is possible we could get Rancid to play... If this were further along I would have no problem asking. Two of my best friends are opening for Rancid this september in their California tour.  There is also a few bands out there that have written Ron Paul inspired songs and I'm sure they can be tracked down and would be interested.


nice my buddies opened for offspring and rancid before in the central valley area years ago as well. Great guys for sure!

Most bands (unless signed under msm contractors) would be down to play anything that is screaming end the fed, legalize marijuana as well as free speech, gun rights etc. If it can happen and if someone is willing to take point then lets take this one step further.

Who HAS done this before?

I think an ironed out list needs to be figured as well as possible venues depending on states.

We can call it the

"Rally The Troops" tour

Many could think it is FOR our troops, others could look at it for getting them OUT and others could see it as being a ron paul supporter. It really could go many ways and get out the vote all at the same time.

imagine having a tour that went through the key states with LOCAL bands and by local I mean WELL KNOWN to the state and not "I know a guy who is in a band" or worldwide known.

How many LARGE bands are willing to claim their love for Ron Paul and or simply PLAY for money that a TON of younger teens and  college age kids would love?

Just imagine how simple this would be

"do you want to legalize marijuana?"

go over to that booth and sign up NOW to help us legalize marijuana in 2012


Is that wrong? Its a worthy topic and would be pitched to a demographic that UNDERSTANDS its just a plant and has NEVER killed a $#@!ing person since human existance.

tell me a bad ass concert preaching marijuana legalization wouldn't work?

$#@! it would make me switch to a repub and vote for Ron paul because I kNOW as do many others including democrats THAT obama is a bullfaced liar who didn't do a damn thing he said he was going to. Did he get our troops out? NO ,he hasn't done anything that he promised (shocker) but in the same breath, republicans do the same thing SO it isn't an obama or democrat thing either.

We need to get out the vote with SPECIFIC issues and have different events FOCUSED on single issues.

Why not have the following events

1 pro life rally
2 gun rights rally
3 marijuana legalization rally
4 end the fed rally
5 stop income tax rally
6 support gun rights rally
7 bring the troops home rally

I mean it could really be HUGE if you think about the many options for events AND the many single issue voters that are EVERYWHERE.

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## LibertyEagle

Badger, all I can do is tell you what the campaign asked.  If Dr. Paul's campaign's request does not mean diddly squat to you, then by all means, ignore it.  I mean, you know better than the campaign, right?!

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## Paulistinian

I also run a skateboard company and I co-hosted a music/skateboarding/art all day festival with 15 bands in Pomona in 2009.

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## Paulistinian

> 1 pro life rally
> 2 gun rights rally
> 3 marijuana legalization rally
> 4 end the fed rally
> 5 stop income tax rally
> 6 support gun rights rally
> 7 bring the troops home rally
> 
> I mean it could really be HUGE if you think about the many options for events AND the many single issue voters that are EVERYWHERE.


As far as Southern California goes, an End The Fed concert would probably work nice. It does not directly promote Ron Paul as a candidate, but it does promote Ron Paul's ideals. It does not require a performer to support a candidate, just against the Fed.  We could include a speaker between bands while they are setting up, talking about the Federal Reserve, educating the people in attendance.  If there is a wifi hookup, we can register voters using rockthevote.org  This would be similar to the "We The People" concert in LA in 2008.

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## Thargok

> ... it would make me switch to a repub and vote for Ron paul


I rest my case, this is why focusing on the youth vote fails.  You joined the forums before your primary in '08 but you never changed your registration status.

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## Paulistinian

> I rest my case, this is why focusing on the youth vote fails.  You joined the forums before your primary in '08 but you never changed your registration status.


We can change registration status on site at an End The Fed rally using rockthevote.org

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## V4Vendetta

> *Again, the campaign specifically asked that only Iowa residents attend the Iowa Straw Poll. * 
> 
> There were adverse consequences last time around that they would rather not repeat.


AGREED - VERY SMART
The CIA FBI undoubtedly have agents in the ron paul crowd also.... specifically to cause trouble.
Be smart people, I personally know of a few, and one for sure is still making the rounds in the ron paul crowd and getting in even deeper.

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## parocks

There should be an event close to the Ames Straw Poll. It wouldn't be Ronstock.  But it would be wise to have a base of operations close to the event.
Rent something from Iowa State?




> Alright then,
> 
> if you don't want to argue whether it is a good idea or not then lets take it one step further.
> 
> Who here can actually PUT ON A ronstock SIZED event? Or wait, who here HAS put on something of this size and if so what?
> 
> I think once we realize NO ONE here odds are has we need to take this simply as "an idea" and stop fighting over whether or not it could or would do a damn thing for any straw poll or vote in general. It makes no sense.
> 
> so who can get this done?
> ...

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## LibertyEagle

> There should be an event close to the Ames Straw Poll. It wouldn't be Ronstock.  But it would be wise to have a base of operations close to the event.
> Rent something from Iowa State?


Here's the thing.  Parocks, I have seen you in several threads trying to squelch different grassroots operations, because you didn't want to interfere with what the campaign was doing.  But, here, where the campaign has specifically asked out-of-staters to STAY HOME and leave this up to Iowans, you keep pushing this deal.  Why is that exactly?

Another forum member just checked with the Campaign Mgr in Iowa.  Go read what he found out.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Ames-Iowa-2011

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## acptulsa

Well, you know what?  Putting on a show is just not the same as just showing up and getting in the way.  It really isn't.  And it looks to me like this, and people spending money which could be put to better uses, is what Steve doesn't want.

I'd be concerned about running afoul of the goofy-assed campaign finance laws that work so hard to keep We, the People out of our own political process.  But I think this concert idea has merit.  Instead of doing it specifically for Ron Paul, we'd be safer calling it Libertypalooza or something like that, and keeping the preaching to a minimum.  Maybe we could quietly insist the bands all wear Ron Paul shirts or something, but might have to skip the booths and such.  I'm no expert on campaign laws, but I think limiting the Paul advertising to such things that can be attributed to band members' and audience members' personal choices would be safe enough.  As the Democrats have proven many times, a simple get out the vote rally is no hindrance to any single campaign.

A show before on the same day, where admission is proof of registration for the event, or afterwards with admission being proof of participation, could be very useful indeed.  But we don't need to do a half-assed job of it.  If a few provocateurs turned it violent it would cease to be good for the cause and become a huge soruce of bad publicity.  So, we have to understand that there would be risks.

But I do think something like this would be far, far more useful than just showing up and getting in the way, and that the campaign can't ask us to do it but wouldn't complain if it was done right.

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## speciallyblend

ronstock is a good idea but as LE suggest(screenshot) again This shouldn't be done during ames strawpoll!   We had helped organize the first ronstock during rally for the republic!  I know paul and emily who helped us have the first ronstock. I think all ron stockers would love a second ronstock 

 I suggest we plan ronstock 2 in 2012 on a minnesota farm sometime in early spring (bachmann not invited) If folks want a ronstock 2 i would suggest a chipin along with some type of entry fee. We all put in our own money and charged a minimal entry fee and we still went into the red but ronstock was the bestest ever! There will be alot of fees and cost to throwing another one and paul and emily deserve it  If we got rpf/dailypaul/flix and alot of people involved we could make this a major event in 2012!!!  gota go take wife to work peace out

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## Badger Paul

I'm not saying I know more than the campaign. What I'm saying is having been at the straw poll before, being a fellow Midwesterner, knowing what needs to be done on that day (and there's a lot to do) and knowing how to act properly in a public situation, I don't think I myself will do the campaign any harm being at the straw poll. 

As for what others do, that's up to them.

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## Badger Paul

One thing I'll also say, if there's any concert the night before, it should also include local bands on the bill as well.

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## speciallyblend

> One thing I'll also say, if there's any concert the night before, it should also include local bands on the bill as well.


either way, we can have a ronstock 3 in Minnesota later on if Paul and Emily want another one, which would obviously be bigger and cost more money then Ronstock did.

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## Xander Crews

You guys are thinking much bigger than I was, ha.  Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "Ronstock", I was thinking more a long the lines of Ron Paul supporters getting a bunch of adjacent camp sites, camping, having fun, acoustic instruments (not necessarily bands).  Decorate the area with Ron Paul Revolution banners and the such. 

Just have a good time and maybe bring the message to other campers.  I was not talking about a super-concert on main street in Ames or anything.

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## parocks

what we do "need" is to secure a spot near the straw poll at the same time as the straw poll to serve as a grassroots base of events.  later, we can determine
what event we should do, based on the spot we get.




> You guys are thinking much bigger than I was, ha.  Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "Ronstock", I was thinking more a long the lines of Ron Paul supporters getting a bunch of adjacent camp sites, camping, having fun, acoustic instruments (not necessarily bands).  Decorate the area with Ron Paul Revolution banners and the such. 
> 
> Just have a good time and maybe bring the message to other campers.  I was not talking about a super-concert on main street in Ames or anything.

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## speciallyblend

> You guys are thinking much bigger than I was, ha.  Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "Ronstock", I was thinking more a long the lines of Ron Paul supporters getting a bunch of adjacent camp sites, camping, having fun, acoustic instruments (not necessarily bands).  Decorate the area with Ron Paul Revolution banners and the such. 
> 
> Just have a good time and maybe bring the message to other campers.  I was not talking about a super-concert on main street in Ames or anything.


i understand what your talking about. The first ronstock we threw was fun and a nice showing of ron paul supporters. All i am saying is if we throw another one on paul and emil'ys farm . I can see us doubling if not more coming. If you have a gathering on a farm. we have to get porta potties/showers/vending/bigger sound$$$/permits etc etc  if it is a gathering of 100 or more. Most counties have laws and regulations etc etc. Yes we could take over a campground etc but there is still costs to that as well. Whatever folks do have fun, odds are i will have to wait till 2012 to attend something like this, so i am suggesting we ask paul and emily to use their farm again Any event costs some type of money but bottom line is if we have an event on paul's farm. There are costs even on a small level!!  ronstock /minnesota /calling out bachmann in 2012 or whoever we need to would be a great event for rpf members and liberty lovers and plenty of time to plan. call it whatever we want

link to flashback Ronstock rally for the republic!!  http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...26-Ronstock-09

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## parocks

A valid question.

Here is my proposal and explanation of why this would be good.  It could be very long.

First, we see that it's going to be impossible to keep out of stater out.  Isn't it?  I'll make it clear.  What I'm talking about is not supposed
to draw anyone in from out of state.  The attendees of the event should be simply local people.  This is not to be advertised as a fun party for Ron Paul supporters.
It might not even be officially advertized at all.  The purpose of this event is to draw people from the Ames area to a room close by where we can check them out, determine if they're a Ron Paul supporter, and then deliver them to the straw poll.  We can also do a lot of other things from that room as well.  We can use the area
as a place to hold unruly Ron Paul supporters.  "Hey, thanks for dressing up, and great Ron Paul chants, but the grassroots really needs you to sit in that shed over there.
What I'm talking about is organizing the grassroots that are there.  We don't want any "I'm going to stand there and do nothing productive grass roots people"  Everybody from RPF that is there will know where to meet.  Someone there on the ground will have "the plan".  And that person will tell everyone from RPF what the plan is.  And the grassroots will implement the plan.

If there are 50 RPF people there (all from Iowa), there can be a "security force".  Develop some sort of phone system to get RPF security over to where problems are arising.  We do see overenthusiastic organized Ron Paul chants as a negative, right?  So what we do, is we send our RPF security there to talk to them.  We're not dressed in Ron Paul gear, they are.  They are doing something and we want them to stop.  We explain that the Ron Paul grassroots decided that yelling and screaming weren't what's up this year at this event.  Explain that we have opportunities for them to watch rock bands if it's more to their liking.   If we think they can do tasks like screening the locals for Ron Paul preferences they could help with that.  The official campaign is the face of the campaign.  We can help them.

You might be saying "don't do anything that might give an out of stater an excuse to come to Ames".  Unless you want to see 3 -5 popular bands from Ames who you never heard of, there really isn't anything like fun.  We'd be getting rid of your fun.  If you want to chant Ron Paul, we'd be telling you to go to the shed and watch the bands, or screen.  If you want to see 3 bands, just go to your local cities and save money that way.  I won't say "but if you're functional, and you have a car, and you have money in your pocket, and no impediments to being able to just follow orders, we could put you to work"  I won't say that.  I'll say "stay out".  

There's been some confusion on "who should come to Ames, come to Iowa"  Based on what I've been able to gather, it appears Steve is cherrypicking, which is fine, it's what I'd do. I would guess that if you're a hottish, competent, clean cut, conservatively dressed, dependable girl who graduated from college in the midwest in the last 5 years, and is just ready to work, Steve would want you there.  The farther away you are from that, the less likely he'd want you there.  If all you want to do is wave signs, he doesn't want you.  It appears that the National Campaign that they want people.  Which is true.  What they aren't saying explicitly is that Steve is going to be making those calls (if that is indeed the case).

I also want to note that rp08orbust who is doing the excellent robopolling is working on some other great things some of which could involve a gathering area.
I think that people right now are pretty happy with the work that rp08orbust is doing, and if he explains what he wants, would people work to make that happen?

I would support the rp08orbust Ames Gathering Place project.  We work with rp08orbust on this, and implement his vision.  He's on a roll, doing proven good work.  Steve seems to be working well with him.





> Here's the thing.  Parocks, I have seen you in several threads trying to squelch different grassroots operations, because you didn't want to interfere with what the campaign was doing.  But, here, where the campaign has specifically asked out-of-staters to STAY HOME and leave this up to Iowans, you keep pushing this deal.  Why is that exactly?
> 
> Another forum member just checked with the Campaign Mgr in Iowa.  Go read what he found out.
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Ames-Iowa-2011

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## parocks

How many people total attended Ronstock?  How much did everything cost?  What were the positive outcomes from it?




> i understand what your talking about. The first ronstock we threw was fun and a nice showing of ron paul supporters. All i am saying is if we throw another one on paul and emil'ys farm . I can see us doubling if not more coming. If you have a gathering on a farm. we have to get porta potties/showers/vending/bigger sound$$$/permits etc etc  if it is a gathering of 100 or more. Most counties have laws and regulations etc etc. Yes we could take over a campground etc but there is still costs to that as well. Whatever folks do have fun, odds are i will have to wait till 2012 to attend something like this, so i am suggesting we ask paul and emily to use their farm again Any event costs some type of money but bottom line is if we have an event on paul's farm. There are costs even on a small level!!  ronstock /minnesota /calling out bachmann in 2012 or whoever we need to would be a great event for rpf members and liberty lovers and plenty of time to plan. call it whatever we want
> 
> link to flashback Ronstock rally for the republic!!  http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...26-Ronstock-09

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> _"There were adverse consequences last time around that they would rather not repeat. "
> _
> 
> Like what?


Coming in 5th place perhaps.




> I'd agree if you were from California or New Hampshire you're probably better off saving your money. But I live well within a day's driving distance of Ames. I've been to two straw polls and found plenty to do to help the campaigns I was working for. There's nothing wrong with having those who can make a day trip to Ames by car come and help if the campaign needs around the tent or to be the crowd on the floor of the Hilton Coliseum or to parade, who up signs and pass out Slim Jims to voters along the way.


The campaign already has people there to do that, specifically people who live in Iowa.





> I don't recall the officially campaign ever bluntly saying "Do Not Enter Iowa Whatever You Do".



Then you missed the 2nd line of this page:
http://iowaforronpaul.com/get-involved.php





> Hopefully I'll be at Ames this year just like four years ago doing no more than saying "Vote for Ron Paul." and hopefully celebrating a great success with my fellow Paulians. And since still have the freedom to travel, I intend to do so.


Have you asked Steve Bierfeldt if he would like your help? If not, you should drop him a line before you take the time to make the trip. He is the guy Ron Paul has placed in charge of Iowa. 

If Ron Paul trusts his opinion and ability to manage his operations, why don't you?

----------


## speciallyblend

> How many people total attended Ronstock?  How much did everything cost?  What were the positive outcomes from it?


you should already know the answer to most of those questions. if not research ron paul movement

----------


## speciallyblend

> Coming in 5th place perhaps.
> 
> The campaign already has people there to do that, specifically people who live in Iowa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you missed the 2nd line of this page:
> ...


ok this is getting silly, this is not a closed event people from all states come to the fair even ron paul supporters bottom line someone wants to go to a state fair. they surely do not need steve,ron paul or anyones permission to go! period end of story next!!

----------


## parocks

I went to the thread that was linked.  And I looked at the pictures. And I really couldn't tell.

----------


## Danke

> I went to the thread that was linked.  And I looked at the pictures. And I really couldn't tell.


Besides the rental of the porto potties, (and fuel for the electrical generator for music?) I'm not exactly sure what the extra cost was.  Paul supplied the land to use, cold water and the Internet.  I, with the help of Casey provided the supplies and built the showers.

----------


## CaseyJones

actually I was talking with paul and he said something about having some showers now we could use

----------


## Todd

> *The campaign has asked us NOT to attend the Iowa Straw Poll if we do not live in Iowa.*
> 
> Doing so, will not have a positive impact.
> 
> They instead have asked us to please support the projects they would like to do in Iowa and to volunteer to do some calling.
> 
> http://www.iowaforronpaul.com/


Agreed. Seems to me that the grassroots is getting caught up in the rah rah sort of things again.  Why not a little energy on the concept of getting actual Iowa voters to show up for Paul?  The concept of the precinct leader seemed to be a pretty effective way to do this last go around.  It was nearly impossible without a team though.  When is that going to be in the works?

To be honest...I am out of my home state right now but I am reluctant to go to my local Ron Paul meet up for this very reason; that the entire focus is on sign waving on street corners again.  Basically symbolic gestures of support by the minions.  Not a winning strategy IMO

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> ok this is getting silly, this is not a closed event people from all states come to the fair even ron paul supporters bottom line someone wants to go to a state fair. they surely do not need steve,ron paul or anyones permission to go! period end of story next!!


Well, if they would like to help the campaign, then they probably should touch base with the campaign.

----------


## speciallyblend

> Besides the rental of the porto potties, (and fuel for the electrical generator for music?) I'm not exactly sure what the extra cost was.  Paul supplied the land to use, cold water and the Internet.  I, with the help of Casey provided the supplies and built the showers.


the food, steaks etc . that cost a pretty penny and we didn't charge for the great steaks!!   you remember the bs the county tried to pull/ so if we do this again everything will have to be cleared thru county especially if we have double or triple or more people.  plus we had to hide the showers! If we do a bigger event everything will have to be to code or the county will harass paul and emily! My dj system works for smaller events and would work again but if we want more bands and entertainment .we would need more sound and a sound guy for the bands that =$$$$ which we didn't have to spend last time since i brought my dj system and we had the marc scibilia band performing around the campfire at night!! My dj system makes enough noise but after 200 people we would need something bigger!! 

All i was saying was be prepared to possibly break even or lose a lil money and if we happen to make any money. i want to try to give it to paul and emily for their farm use!!

----------


## Badger Paul

I tell you what Napoleon, you really do take after your handle: "You can't do this! You can't do that! Clear it with the central office!" A campaign based on freedom wants to turn Iowa into a forbidden zone to travel in. 

Oh well, the world is filled with Little Napoleons.

Not that I have a beef. I know they want this year to be different and have actual Iowans there voting and volunteering for the tasks that need to be done on straw poll day. More power to them.

But I think a concert is a great way to rally said Iowans, especially young ones to attend the straw poll and vote for Ron Paul. Make it a "night-before-the-big-game" pep rally with bands, and maybe Ron speaking to fire up the crowd. Maybe we can all agree locals in the Ames area grassroots can find a site and sign up the bands for such a show to put on. 

The reason RP finished fifth at the Straw Poll was due to fact all we had in Iowa four years ago was one campaign staffer and bunch of meet-up groups do everything they possibly could to organize for the event. Without the grassroots, especially we would never been able to accomplish what we did even in a limited fashion. Given RP spent little time or money in the state beforehand and very few Iowans knew who he was, to get 1,300 votes on a basically what was a do-it-yourself campaign was amazing. I left Ames with good vibe and I certainly heard nothing there or afterward about our supporters being disruptive, rude or obnoxious (and believe me we would have heard about it) the day of the straw poll. Whatever we did or didn't do I'll say this, even if most of us were from out of state, we made damn better showing by our presence than having forlorn tent with nobody around like some of the candidates had. That's a good way to kill your buzz real quick.

But hey, if they've got nothing for me to do that's fine. But I usually find something constructive to do on Straw Poll day. The campaign doesn't have to worry about me that's for sure. They can go about their business getting the job done and I can go about mine. And hopefully with more staffers, more organization and more money, we can get the job done. Believe me, I do appreciate their efforts. But as one famous Wisconsin politico once said "I'm a man, not a jellyfish." 

I

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> I tell you what Napoleon, you really do take after your handle: "You can't do this! You can't do that! Clear it with the central office!" A campaign based on freedom wants to turn Iowa into a forbidden zone to travel in.


How old are you, seriously?  Have you ever attended college? If so, for how long?


I never said anyone was forbidden, or that people can't do anything. Please go back and re-read what I actually wrote.





> I left Ames with good vibe and I certainly heard nothing there or afterward about our supporters being disruptive, rude or obnoxious (and believe me we would have heard about it) the day of the straw poll.


You must not have been paying attention or maybe are not in the loop or something, I dunno. It's still being talked about in many circles unfortunately though 






> The campaign doesn't have to worry about me that's for sure.


Your attitude on here seems to be countering that argument. 


Have you talked with Steve Bierfeldt yet?

----------


## parocks

I've done research on venues in Ames.  If anyone wants to follow up on that, great.  Is there anything rentable on the Iowa State campus? The M Room - the on campus venue?  What all is available and how much does it cost.

My favorite idea is day of event staging area / small concert.  Move bodies to the staging area.  Make sure the bodies are Ron Paul supporters. Move the bodies to the straw poll.  rp08orbust is developing a system or may develop a system - using the technologies that he has - that could move bodies to the staging area.

Making a concert is very easy.  If you want to do a Friday, that could be at any venue.  id bands you want to play.  find out how much they cost. talk to a venue.
tell them you want to bill the show as a Ron Paul Free Show.  These venues will put it in their advertising as Ron Paul Free Show.  You give everybody money, and everyone is happy. You don't need a lot of money to do this. $300-$500 per show, assuming 3 bands at $100.  You might want to spend more if it's the day before or the day of.  

I'm biggest on the day of event.  We can use the staging area / concert event for many different things.  Grassroots volunteers, who do not "campaign", help the campaign in other ways.    I covered that in another thread.  The Space at Ames is where you want to go if you want all-age venue. (or m-shop).  There are a couple bars that have bands as well, but space at ames is closer than those bars.




> I tell you what Napoleon, you really do take after your handle: "You can't do this! You can't do that! Clear it with the central office!" A campaign based on freedom wants to turn Iowa into a forbidden zone to travel in. 
> 
> Oh well, the world is filled with Little Napoleons.
> 
> Not that I have a beef. I know they want this year to be different and have actual Iowans there voting and volunteering for the tasks that need to be done on straw poll day. More power to them.
> 
> But I think a concert is a great way to rally said Iowans, especially young ones to attend the straw poll and vote for Ron Paul. Make it a "night-before-the-big-game" pep rally with bands, and maybe Ron speaking to fire up the crowd. Maybe we can all agree locals in the Ames area grassroots can find a site and sign up the bands for such a show to put on. 
> 
> The reason RP finished fifth at the Straw Poll was due to fact all we had in Iowa four years ago was one campaign staffer and bunch of meet-up groups do everything they possibly could to organize for the event. Without the grassroots, especially we would never been able to accomplish what we did even in a limited fashion. Given RP spent little time or money in the state beforehand and very few Iowans knew who he was, to get 1,300 votes on a basically what was a do-it-yourself campaign was amazing. I left Ames with good vibe and I certainly heard nothing there or afterward about our supporters being disruptive, rude or obnoxious (and believe me we would have heard about it) the day of the straw poll. Whatever we did or didn't do I'll say this, even if most of us were from out of state, we made damn better showing by our presence than having forlorn tent with nobody around like some of the candidates had. That's a good way to kill your buzz real quick.
> ...

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

Realize that if you go out there and do this concert, and if for whatever reason the press shows up and writes a bad report, or sees something that is said or done that is objectionable in the eyes of Republican voters, you could very well be costing Ron votes not only in the straw poll but in the actual caucuses.

I mean all it takes is for one of your bands to use an expletive from stage, or talk about the wrong thing, or have lyrics about the wrong thing, or be associated with the wrong crowd, and that will become the focal point of the story.

Just sayin'

----------


## The Dark Knight

I have found this discussion rather amusing. Look, if you come to ames to help out, no one is going to send you back home. If you come be sure to head over to the campaign office in Ankeny to make calls. The campaign is hiring bands to come play, maybe some christian bands. not all worked out yet.  anyhow, if you come to Iowa make sure you are doing something productive by targeting likely voters through phone calls. signwaving or something like that wont help so dont waste your time coming if you are going to do that.

----------


## Badger Paul

[I]_"If you come be sure to head over to the campaign office in Ankeny to make calls."_

I'd be more than happy to stop in and help. I'm hardly going to stand on a Des Moines street corner and sign wave.

----------


## Badger Paul

Yes I've been to college Napoleon. I'm also a local elected official.

You'll have to fill me in on all the gory details.  I know about the Condit crap but I don't think it effected our votes totals one way or the other and the only person stressed out about the Stormfront blogger was David Weigel. If there's was any more than that, I didn't hear about it. You'll have to clue me on all the naughty things the grassroots did in Ames in 2007.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Yes I've been to college Napoleon. I'm also a local elected official.
> 
> You'll have to fill me in on all the gory details.  I know about the Condit crap but I don't think it effected our votes totals one way or the other and the only person stressed out about the Stormfront blogger was David Weigel. If there's was any more than that, I didn't hear about it. You'll have to clue me on all the naughty things the grassroots did in Ames in 2007.


What is your deal?  Seriously?  There is plenty of stuff for us to do and plenty of events for us to go to down the line.  This particular one, the campaign specifically asked out-of-towners not to attend.  These are people that Ron Paul chose to run his campaign.  If you truly support Ron Paul, why on earth would you flip them off and be so determined to go against their request?

----------


## acptulsa

The deal is this is a great way to get young voters in town on the day and encourage them to participate.  That's what the deal is.

Yes, the concerns are valid.  But the concert doesn't even have to have a single Ron Paul sign up to accomplish this.  Not even one.  Young voters are liable to go for our man for many good reasons, and anything that will get them there on the day in question sounds good to me.

Let the campaign disassociate itself from the concert and vice versa, just to be on the safe side.  But we should do anything we can think of to attract the youth vote to Ames on that day.  Anything.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Let the campaign disassociate itself from the concert and vice versa, just to be on the safe side.


Now, you know that will not work.  

It's on your head; not mine.

----------


## acptulsa

> Now, you know that will not work.  
> 
> It's on your head; not mine.


I don't see why it couldn't.  Just because it's organized here?  We aren't the official campaign.

A rock concert in Ames.  A get out the youth vote effort by citizens.  Period.  No candidates mentioned.  It has happened, and could happen again.  I just don't see why not.  Sure, provocateurs could try to turn it violent.  Sure, it could be linked to something unofficial by people who favor Ron Paul.  But it's just a get out the youth vote concert, that's all.

In any case, I don't see people jumping up and down to donate, so I'm doubtful it's anything more than another scholastic exercise anyway...

----------


## speciallyblend

> The deal is this is a great way to get young voters in town on the day and encourage them to participate.  That's what the deal is.
> 
> Yes, the concerns are valid.  But the concert doesn't even have to have a single Ron Paul sign up to accomplish this.  Not even one.  Young voters are liable to go for our man for many good reasons, and anything that will get them there on the day in question sounds good to me.
> 
> Let the campaign disassociate itself from the concert and vice versa, just to be on the safe side.  But we should do anything we can think of to attract the youth vote to Ames on that day.  Anything.


 
no matter what happens in ames, I would like to suggest we have another ronstock in goodhue minnesota with our friends paul and emily  we can use this minnesota event in 2012 to counter bachmann and promote ron paul and have a rpf/daily paul/liberty lovers from across america(readers of rpf) meet up and promote the revolution with bands etc etc. If it is big enough we could have the camping in goodhue and just rent a venue close. We have to discuss how many folks they really want on the farm  clothing optional?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnFZsrs32Co

----------


## Nate

> no matter what happens in ames, I would like to suggest we have another ronstock in goodhue minnesota with our friends paul and emily  we can use this minnesota event in 2012 to counter bachmann and promote ron paul and have a rpf/daily paul/liberty lovers from across america(readers of rpf) meet up and promote the revolution with bands etc etc. If it is big enough we could have the camping in goodhue and just rent a venue close. We have to discuss how many folks they really want on the farm  clothing optional?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnFZsrs32Co



I'm up for a sequel. I had a blast in Minnesota.

----------


## parocks

Really, we get in the press for our stuff now?  Ok, how about we don't call it a Ron Paul event.

I've heard the argument.  On the other hand, Tom Petty is about threatening to kill Michele Bachmann.  The dangers of a band swearing on stage are certainly real.
On the other hand, Ron Paul supporters, at the actual events, act like aholes.  This is not the straw poll.  This is not the official campaign.  And being over enthusiastic
would be frowned upon.  you have bands there, because you're smart enough to figure out what type of people will be there, and you will have determined that you want them there.

It's certainly good that you're thinking about the risks there.  But this is a grassroots thing, not a Ron Paul thing.

News Flash:  A group believed to be loosely affiliated with Ron Paul, but not provably so had a rock band that swore on stage.
They don't attack Ron Paul, they ignore him.

rp08orbust is getting more heroic by the day.  he's been doing the robocalling that's been getting so many iowa voters id'd.  And Steve is not unhappy with him.
It is my understanding that rp08orbusts techological expertise and creativity are going to be able to move bodies to a place and time of our choosing.
We need to secure that place.  Or at least get started on finding out how much these places cost at iowa state if possible.

Ron Paul Bash on 12/15/07 worked well.  Lots of bands. No problems.  It's 2011.  The Beatles were 50 years ago.  Things bands say on stage is really not a problem.
I envision a lot of these shows, actually, because the economics are so favorable.  You get 100 people to listen to your message between bands.  You ID voters.  You get data on those voters.  And you already know something about these voters.  And you could do this for 300-500 a night satisfactorily.  If the name Ron Paul Free Show is too scary, call it something else.

It is well known that Ron Paul has supporters who do their own thing.  

Which is worse?  

1) Annoying Ron Paul Supporters booing at a straw poll in front of the political movers and shakers. Chanting.  Interrupting other speakers.
or
2) People who are Ron Paul Supporters, but are in no way affiliated with the campaign, put on low key rock shows for free.  they talk about Ron Paul and register voters.  Sometimes the bands swear.  Said the guy who books the bands "listen, I just book the bands, and put Ron Paul Free Show in front of it."  These are good bands and sometime bands swear.  Sometimes we don't even book the bands, we just put our name on the show."  They won't want to tell that story because "putting on a rock show requires competence and foresight.  And the media is working hard to portray Ron Paul supporters as angry booers, not people capable of putting rock shows together.  There is so much good there, with a large series of Ron Paul Free Shows.  Bands, who are popular people with fans, people who care what they have to say, are going to like Ron Paul, because we're giving them money.  And will continue to give them money as long as it's worth it to do it.

You get the top 10 bands in Ames / Des Moines and you pay them nicely (this might take more than $100 a band), and you get them to email their fans and tell them to go to the Ames Straw Poll and vote for Ron Paul.  Ron Paul did have the cred last time around, bands were happy to support him.  

Also consider, this rock concert or grassroots staging area will be used to get rid of #1.  If Ron Paul supporters are behaving inappropriately, they will be asked to stop, and then encouraged to help the grassroots at the staging area.   all we're doing is getting rid of the difficult ones by gving them a place away from the straw poll.

It's designed to be a help to the straw poll.

I'm just saying rp08orbust might need a space for his project on straw poll day.  let's put it that way.  once a space is obtained, there can be debates about any number of things.  I'd be in agreement with what rp08orbust wants.







> Realize that if you go out there and do this concert, and if for whatever reason the press shows up and writes a bad report, or sees something that is said or done that is objectionable in the eyes of Republican voters, you could very well be costing Ron votes not only in the straw poll but in the actual caucuses.
> 
> I mean all it takes is for one of your bands to use an expletive from stage, or talk about the wrong thing, or have lyrics about the wrong thing, or be associated with the wrong crowd, and that will become the focal point of the story.
> 
> Just sayin'

----------


## parocks

What I'm talking about is similar to what you're saying.  and i agree that targeting 18-24 should be a good move.  but it's not necessarily the best move.  rp08orbust has a slightly different idea.  hes the one who is doing such a great job with the voter id robocalls.  I think he might have use for the space with his effort.  People will start
to recognize the great work he's doing, and might rally around another one of his ideas which would be this, but however he wants to do it.  I really could argue either side on any of these issues.  The way to start is to find a place.  Iowa State?

The Space for Ames is located at 118 Hayward Avenue, Suite #3 in Ames, 
in the same building as The Ark Pet Shop, Domino’s Pizza, Nite Owl Printing, 
and Scallion Korean Restaurant (just go around back, or take the side entrance and follow the hallway).

That has amenities like Printing.  And Domino's (Free Pizza).  And it's the cool all age venue.  You pay a couple of headliners there to play a free show during the day.
They might just love that.  





> The deal is this is a great way to get young voters in town on the day and encourage them to participate.  That's what the deal is.
> 
> Yes, the concerns are valid.  But the concert doesn't even have to have a single Ron Paul sign up to accomplish this.  Not even one.  Young voters are liable to go for our man for many good reasons, and anything that will get them there on the day in question sounds good to me.
> 
> Let the campaign disassociate itself from the concert and vice versa, just to be on the safe side.  But we should do anything we can think of to attract the youth vote to Ames on that day.  Anything.

----------


## Billay

And people got mad when Huckabee said Ron Paul supporters are like a gun show and a greatful dead concert.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I don't see why it couldn't.  Just because it's organized here?  We aren't the official campaign.


No, that's not what I was referring to.  It was the part of disassociating the event from the grassroots, as if what the grassroots does will not reflect upon Dr. Paul.  It will and it always has.

----------


## parocks

And when grassroots picks up 500 people off the street and sends them in to the straw poll to vote, but there was an article that mentioned, mentioned what.

You talk like people are constantly writing stories about rock bands swearing.  It is true that it's a well known political fear.  But it's 2011.  No reporter can write that article right now.  Shocked I tell you!!!  

The story will say "ron paul grassroots is so efficient, such a powerhouse, so much more impressive than the booers and chanters who only amused themselves
 of 08.  Now they're just putting on free shows and handing out slim jims and signing people up on their mailing lists and selling merch, just like the bands. 
Sometimes though, Christian ears may be offended by some of the language heard on stage."  And yes, if anything at all negative happened, well you weigh it against the positives.  

This particular event, the Ames one, is not focused entirely on just giving away quality free concerts as cheaply and easily and efficiently as possible.  staging people and moving them to the event.  a grassroots headquarters.  backup volunteers for the campaign if they need them.  a "time out" place for less than well behaved Ron Paul supporters who were at the event. hq for other special projects.

rp08orbust is doing a great job.  i think this could help him.  if he wants to do this, I think we should do this.  




> Now, you know that will not work.  
> 
> It's on your head; not mine.

----------


## Justinfrom1776

We should start planning for something early next year before the primary kicks off, in one of the early voting states like Texas.  Texas is centrally located and has fair weather in the late winter.  It would be a chance for us to show our true numbers,, 30,000 people @ a Ronfest will command media attention and at the perfect time too.  We could have speakers, artists, musicians and raise funds for the campaign to go the distance. 

I think Jack Hunter would be a great speaker at an event like this.. Music like Jordan Page and Frank Turner would go over well.. And artwork by legendary "Art Terrorist" Banksy would be very symbolic.  

I like the idea, but let's do it bigger!

-For Liberty!

I'm sending Jerry Jones an E-mail right now about using his stadium.. Lol

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> News Flash:  A group believed to be loosely affiliated with Ron Paul, but not provably so had a rock band that swore on stage.
> They don't attack Ron Paul, they ignore him.





> The story will say "ron paul grassroots is so  efficient, such a powerhouse, so much more impressive than the booers  and chanters who only amused themselves
>  of 08.  Now they're just putting on free shows and handing out slim  jims and signing people up on their mailing lists and selling merch,  just like the bands. 
> Sometimes though, Christian ears may be offended by some of the language  heard on stage."  And yes, if anything at all negative happened, well  you weigh it against the positives.


You obviously have no experience dealing with the media, or even consuming media.

The media will write whatever fits their agenda most time, and they take great creative license with the truth. They can and will spin it their way, and you have little to no control over it.

If you think otherwise, then you are naive. 

You're playing with fire here, and you might get all of us burned. 


How old are you?

----------


## acptulsa

> How old are you?


Don't be patronizing.  The concerns are duly noted.  There's no guarantee this will come off.  And the campaign needs us to attract the voters they can't because they're too busy kissing old guard ass.

It needs security and proper organization, and the campaign needs deniability.  Duly noted.  If it goes forward at all, it will go forward with these important precautions.

----------


## Billay

Why not just talk to the campaign and see if you can do a pre-debate or after debate party to get Iowans fired up? "Ronfest" would hurt more than help and people need to quit being such damn renegades if you want Ron to actually win.

----------


## rp08orbust

parocks,

I'm flattered that you hold my judgment on this matter in such high regard, though I'm not sure how I earned it.  My attention has been almost exclusively on identifying Ron Paul supporters and forwarding their details to the campaign.  I don't have any other project in the works like the one this thread is about.

I think I may have PM'ed you at some point about something like this Ronstock idea.  The idea was inspired by my robopoll results and involved attracting as many registered independent male voters under 40 to Ames as possible via SMS messages regarding a side-show of some sort and then getting them to vote in the straw poll.  This would have been a sort of Hail Mary strategy to be implemented if it did not look like the campaign was going to come up with, say, the 5,000 votes likely needed to win.

I still think a backup plan for victory like this should be ready, but that it should be proposed to and then handled by the campaign. If you want to hear what I have in mind, send me an email from my profile.  It too is inspired by the results of my robopolling revealing a unique advantage for Ron Paul that could be leveraged into a straw poll win with a lot of money.  It would require a meeting place, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be the area already reserved by the Ron Paul campaign (unless that area requires tickets, in which case the meeting place would be some nearby landmark just outside the ticketed area specified by the Ron Paul campaign).  Again, this idea would be proposed to the Ron Paul campaign for them to implement, not for us to do on our own.  It would involve spending a ton of money to get a favorable demographic to show up, and then further identifying those of them sympathetic to Ron Paul and getting them to vote.

However, I'm getting more optimistic that the conventional approach of getting out the vote among pre-identified supporters that the campaign is pursuing will be enough to win.  I think my robopolling project could be the deciding factor if we're able to raise enough money to keep it going on a large enough scale to identify a few thousand new supporters the campaign does not yet have on their list.

----------


## parocks

I have no idea who you are and what you've done. I'm not going to go into details, I worked on a political campaign a number of years ago.  we won.
I ran a town.  I've done lots of political stuff.

Listen grassroots spent $750K on a blimp.  The press coverage included "Ron Paul has a Blimp"  so, right there, you've got a problem.

There was a band, and the band swore.  uh huh.  Got it. You think the media is going to print that story, media genius?  You don't understand that my story is
implied.  Yes, I put it in a quote.  But if they're talking about swearing at a Ron Paul show, they have to mention that there's a Ron Paul show.  And if the band
that swears is a good one, then that's there in the story as well.

Listen, overall, I'm as down on grassroots as you are.  Spending money on sending people around?  That's like the core of grassroots apparently.
Pay me to go to Iowa to do the exact same thing as the campaign is doing, but completely independent of the campaign.

The dangers are overstated.  I can understand why any Ames straw poll event should be official campaign because of risk.  Put I like Ron Paul Free Show, and I'll still defend that idea.  I don't really like Ron Paul events that are designed to appeal to Ron Paul supporters.  I don't see the value in gathering Ron Paul supporters together
 for the heck of it.  

But my version of Ron Paul free show is not entirely about doing something to gather Ron Paul supporters.  It's to put the Ron Paul name out there in a way that only the younger demo is likely to see it, in a broad, postitive, superficial way.  The goal is to get 18-24s to know and like Ron Paul.  We want people to come to the show, so we put good bands on there.  We can take their data, we can talk to them about Ron Paul.  The people who are there could make a 5 minute speech from the stage.  Or not.  It's really quite simple and free of any serious risk.  With $750K which was spent on the blimp (Message: Ron Paul Is Crazy), we could've had 1,000 solid Shows.
There is nothing silly or weird in setting up events where you simply provide free music and take a very low key approach to pitching Ron Paul.  I sometimes tell a person I like Ron Paul, and then say absolutely nothing more about Ron Paul.  Just to show that person that Ron Paul supporters can be cool, and don't have to be annoying.

Gut feeling tells me that Ron Paul is not worried about ties to unsavory youth types.  The Official Ron Paul twitter page retweeted Lindsey Lohan, who is currently in jail.
Intentionally affiliating Ron Paul with a criminal.  

And an unofficial grassroots gathering with swearing?  That's worse than officially approving of Lindsey Lohan?

And my question to you, security fella.  What is your plan to make sure there are not obnoxious Ron Paul chanters, booers, sign wavers, etc making Ron Paul look
bad?  Will the official Ron Paul campaign want to tell their own supporters to stop being themselves.  No.  Would the official Ron Paul campaign want them to stop?
Yes.  So what is your plan to get the Ron Paul supporters who don't look right or act right to get with the program?  I laid out my plan for that.  You have what?

I believe I can say something similiar to what someone else said earlier - "if you stop these "make the crowd better" measures, and the crowd behaves in an impolite manner, it's on you.   I have a solution.

However, rp08orbust believes at this point that we will be able to get bodies to the straw poll.  He's very confident.  Very pleased by his results.  He saw the need for a staging area before.  Now, he thinks we will have enough to win from the IDs.  In addition, he thinks this area, this project should be official campaign.  So, he's not really for it.







> You obviously have no experience dealing with the media, or even consuming media.
> 
> The media will write whatever fits their agenda most time, and they take great creative license with the truth. They can and will spin it their way, and you have little to no control over it.
> 
> If you think otherwise, then you are naive. 
> 
> You're playing with fire here, and you might get all of us burned. 
> 
> 
> How old are you?

----------


## parocks

Wait.  I think you have something there.  You mentioned something in that pm.  I sent you an email reply, which I don't know if you got.

We talked about the demos we're winning in, and leveraging that, and cell phones.  You told me that plan.  and you're saying you don't need a room for that, but any old identifiable place, like the official Ron Paul area, would work great.

I like the project that you're talking about now and mentioned before.  I think I'll send you a pm about that.




> parocks,
> 
> I'm flattered that you hold my judgment on this matter in such high regard, though I'm not sure how I earned it.  My attention has been almost exclusively on identifying Ron Paul supporters and forwarding their details to the campaign.  I don't have any other project in the works like the one this thread is about.
> 
> I think I may have PM'ed you at some point about something like this Ronstock idea.  The idea was inspired by my robopoll results and involved attracting as many registered independent male voters under 40 to Ames as possible via SMS messages regarding a side-show of some sort and then getting them to vote in the straw poll.  This would have been a sort of Hail Mary strategy to be implemented if it did not look like the campaign was going to come up with, say, the 5,000 votes likely needed to win.
> 
> I still think a backup plan for victory like this should be ready, but that it should be proposed to and then handled by the campaign. If you want to hear what I have in mind, send me an email from my profile.  It too is inspired by the results of my robopolling revealing a unique advantage for Ron Paul that could be leveraged into a straw poll win with a lot of money.  It would require a meeting place, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be the area already reserved by the Ron Paul campaign (unless that area requires tickets, in which case the meeting place would be some nearby landmark just outside the ticketed area specified by the Ron Paul campaign).  Again, this idea would be proposed to the Ron Paul campaign for them to implement, not for us to do on our own.  It would involve spending a ton of money to get a favorable demographic to show up, and then further identifying those of them sympathetic to Ron Paul and getting them to vote.
> 
> However, I'm getting more optimistic that the conventional approach of getting out the vote among pre-identified supporters that the campaign is pursuing will be enough to win.  I think my robopolling project could be the deciding factor if we're able to raise enough money to keep it going on a large enough scale to identify a few thousand new supporters the campaign does not yet have on their list.

----------


## parocks

If Ron Paul Supporters are going to do mass events, I would hope for a repeat of 12/16/07 - tea parties.  Reminding everyone where this whole "tea party" thing came from.  This is probably being worked on already.




> We should start planning for something early next year before the primary kicks off, in one of the early voting states like Texas.  Texas is centrally located and has fair weather in the late winter.  It would be a chance for us to show our true numbers,, 30,000 people @ a Ronfest will command media attention and at the perfect time too.  We could have speakers, artists, musicians and raise funds for the campaign to go the distance. 
> 
> I think Jack Hunter would be a great speaker at an event like this.. Music like Jordan Page and Frank Turner would go over well.. And artwork by legendary "Art Terrorist" Banksy would be very symbolic.  
> 
> I like the idea, but let's do it bigger!
> 
> -For Liberty!
> 
> I'm sending Jerry Jones an E-mail right now about using his stadium.. Lol

----------


## parocks

Having a "grassroots conservative" show might be cool.  It could be 100% fair.  And the Ron Paul grassroots could have a booth there.  And so could any candidate.
We could have a Ron Paul person speak.  And then we could say "does anyone want to speak for Romney".  And since it's full of Ron Paul supporters, people would boo.
But all candidates are welcome.




> I don't see why it couldn't.  Just because it's organized here?  We aren't the official campaign.
> 
> A rock concert in Ames.  A get out the youth vote effort by citizens.  Period.  No candidates mentioned.  It has happened, and could happen again.  I just don't see why not.  Sure, provocateurs could try to turn it violent.  Sure, it could be linked to something unofficial by people who favor Ron Paul.  But it's just a get out the youth vote concert, that's all.
> 
> In any case, I don't see people jumping up and down to donate, so I'm doubtful it's anything more than another scholastic exercise anyway...

----------


## parocks

wrong thread

----------


## parocks

wrong thread

----------


## rp08orbust

> Wait.  I think you have something there.  You mentioned something in that pm.  I sent you an email reply, which I don't know if you got.


I just searched my GMail (which I never delete) for anything with parocks in it but got nothing.  I would have received an email notification with "parocks" in it if I had received a PM from you.  Try sending me an email now to r gear y iii at g mail dot com.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> And the campaign needs us to attract the voters they can't because they're too busy kissing old guard ass.


Really? The campaign hasn't asked for any help in this area. And rumor is they are actually putting on a concert of their own.






> It needs security and proper organization, and the campaign needs deniability.  Duly noted.  If it goes forward at all, it will go forward with these important precautions.


It won't matter what precautions you use, the media can and will write whatever fits their agenda.

Imagine the following headlines that could come out of this:
"Ron Paul supporters hold death-metal concert prior to straw poll"
"Ron Paul supporters hold libertarian woodstock prior to straw poll"
"Ron Paul supporters hold debauchery fest prior to straw poll"

I mean there are a thousand ways that the media can / spin this against Ron thus turning likely Republican voters away from RP.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Listen grassroots spent $750K on a blimp.  The press coverage included "Ron Paul has a Blimp"  so, right there, you've got a problem.


And how many votes did that get us? Probably none, or at least not enough to make a difference.

Imagine if that $750k had instead been put into Nevada or Iowa or NH or SC or LA important states, or states that we almost won? It could've pushed us over the top in a few places.






> There was a band, and the band swore.  uh huh.  Got it. You think the media is going to print that story, media genius?  You don't understand that my story is
> implied.  Yes, I put it in a quote.  But if they're talking about swearing at a Ron Paul show, they have to mention that there's a Ron Paul show.  And if the band
> that swears is a good one, then that's there in the story as well.


Again, the media writes whatever they want regardless of whether it is factually accurate or even makes logical rational sense. You have no control over what the media will write about this event.





> But my version of Ron Paul free show is not entirely about doing something to gather Ron Paul supporters.  It's to put the Ron Paul name out there in a way that only the younger demo is likely to see it, in a broad, postitive, superficial way.


But you can't control that, the media will do it's own thing. If the MSM shows up, and it's quite likely they will, I can almost bet that a hit piece will result. If not, then a piece that even if accurate will probably end up turning likely Republicans off to RP.





> The goal is to get 18-24s to know and like Ron Paul.


That's good, but that's an inefficient place to put resources. Most people in that demographic don't vote (or caucus) so we have to focus on those that do, likely Republican caucus-goers. Most of them are over the age of 50, and don't attend rock shows. If you want RP to achieve electoral victory, that's the group you need to focus on.





> Gut feeling tells me that Ron Paul is not worried about ties to unsavory youth types.  The Official Ron Paul twitter page retweeted Lindsey Lohan, who is currently in jail.
> Intentionally affiliating Ron Paul with a criminal.


  Can you link to this please?





> And my question to you, security fella.  What is your plan to make sure there are not obnoxious Ron Paul chanters, booers, sign wavers, etc making Ron Paul look
> bad?  Will the official Ron Paul campaign want to tell their own supporters to stop being themselves.  No.  Would the official Ron Paul campaign want them to stop?
> Yes.  So what is your plan to get the Ron Paul supporters who don't look right or act right to get with the program?  I laid out my plan for that.  You have what?


Ask people from out of state to work from home, and discourage hair-brained ideas like this one that pop up on the Internet from time to time, and instead encourage supporters to work on projects that are more productive and more likely to achieve electoral victory.

----------


## Badger Paul

_"Most people in that demographic don't vote (or caucus) so we have to focus on those that do, likely Republican caucus-goers. Most of them are over the age of 50, and don't attend rock shows."_

If you can't expand the voting pool beyond this demographic then RP is not going to win Iowa or any state period. It's too late to try and "reintroduce" yourself to Iowa seniors when the candidate tells them he's not going to subsidize ethanol, he's going to decriminalize drug use and prostitution on the Federal level and make Social Security and Medicare voluntary. As much as you despise the grassroots, they may well make the difference when it comes to recruiting non-traditional voters for the caucus and the straw poll.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> If you can't expand the voting pool beyond this demographic then RP is not going to win Iowa or any state period.


Wrong, your ignorance of campaigning showing.

It's easier to convert Republicans than it is liberal Democrat kids (who don't vote in any significant quantity). It's 1 step to convince Republicans to vote for Ron, it's 2 or 3 steps to convince the others to vote for Ron.





> It's too late to try and "reintroduce" yourself to Iowa seniors when the candidate tells them he's not going to subsidize ethanol, he's going to decriminalize drug use and prostitution on the Federal level and make Social Security and Medicare voluntary.


You do have a point there. But the reality is that most voters are NOT paying attention right now and thus don't know much about the candidates. Most voters decide about a month or so out from the election. That means that direct mail, door-to-door, and phone banking will have the most effect on who people will decide to vote for.

How Ron is perceived can be changed by communicating the things that we want to communicate to the people that will be voting.

----------


## nbhadja

I still don't think anything beats the "classics". Not sure how useful a concert would be since it would take up money from ron paul fans from far away (plane ticket, possible hotel costs etc). If it is with local Ron Paul fans then its fine, but seems like a waste of money for out or region folks to spend their money just for a small concert. Sometimes the grassroots is creative just for the sake of creativity and forgets about effectiveness. 

It just seems better served to use that money that would be spent by out of staters on this and to fund the Iowa grass roots projects, TV/radio/newspaper ads, mail ads etc. Ron Paul soda, Ron Paul blimp, etc- they did not seem like that good investments. Creative yes, but not anywhere as effective.

The point is to reach as many people as possible, not to be creative for the sake of creativity.

----------


## parocks

What are your objections to small, low key shows that are not at the same time as the ames straw poll?

because your fear mongering is somewhat effective here.  rporbust has said that he's comfortable with the numbers.  And he believes that if there is an effort, the 
meeting area doesn't need to be a structure that we control.  the risk isn't the press.  it's ridiculous that they would write those articles.  it's 2011.

Give me links to stories like that for other candidates.  Not 1972, but recently.  Tom Petty was just fighting with Bachmann.  He doesn't want her to use his song, and she was using it anyway.  But that's not what we're doing.  Anyway, getting people there is no longer important.  So, Ames poll days do not need extra, grassroots outreach.
No media is going to comment on it.  it's just not a story.  But it could somehow have some sort of "butterfly wing" effect in ways we can't understand.  rporbust will apparently be able to identify enough voters. we don't need more.  At this point we should be asking "does the grassroots want to rent a grassroots room for whatever purpose.  Is everyone staying at the same hotel?  perhaps there could be a block of tickets?  I'm just saying now, a place under grassroots control.  not for bringing in people to and from, but for ???  Any plan could be helped perhaps with a room under grassroots control




> Really? The campaign hasn't asked for any help in this area. And rumor is they are actually putting on a concert of their own.
> 
> 
> 
> It won't matter what precautions you use, the media can and will write whatever fits their agenda.
> 
> Imagine the following headlines that could come out of this:
> "Ron Paul supporters hold death-metal concert prior to straw poll"
> "Ron Paul supporters hold libertarian woodstock prior to straw poll"
> ...

----------


## parocks

http://twitter.com/#!/truth_seeker31...37725920616448

there we are

link to lindsay lohan from ron paul

----------


## acptulsa

> I mean there are a thousand ways that the media can / spin this against Ron thus turning likely Republican voters away from RP.


Of course there are.  They've shown us ten thousand ways to spin his and our every action--and more than a few they made up--against him.  But if we get gunshy and sit on our hands we're going to lose--guaranteed.  So, I say our best bet is to carry on and ridicule their silly spin to death.

If there's one thing I know about Republican voters it's that once you've won them you've got some real loyalty.  In this way they're magnificent.  Once we get all of them we're going to get (and, yes, there will be some who will find excuses to hate Ron Paul and us forever), all we can further do is grow the party for the sake of peace and justice.  And we are.

----------


## TIMB0B

The back and forth on this topic can best be summed up, "damned if you do, damned if you don't."  So, what's it gonna be?

----------


## LibertyEagle

Parocks:

The campaign asked for out-of-staters to please NOT go to Iowa.

It's really very simple.

If you want to help, please sign-up on the campaign's Iowa website.  They still need people to do calling.
www.iowaforronpaul.com

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Of course there are.  They've shown us ten thousand ways to spin his and our every action--and more than a few they made up--against him.  But if we get gunshy and sit on our hands we're going to lose--guaranteed.  So, I say our best bet is to carry on and ridicule their silly spin to death.
> 
> If there's one thing I know about Republican voters it's that once you've won them you've got some real loyalty.  In this way they're magnificent.  Once we get all of them we're going to get (and, yes, there will be some who will find excuses to hate Ron Paul and us forever), all we can further do is grow the party for the sake of peace and justice.  And we are.


I understand the feeling, but the campaign _has_ put a lot of effort and strategy into Iowa.  Please, let's not mess it up.

----------


## acptulsa

> I understand the feeling, but the campaign _has_ put a lot of effort and strategy into Iowa.  Please, let's not mess it up.


It probably is a strategy that would work better someplace like New Hampshire or Nevada.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> It probably is a strategy that would work better someplace like New Hampshire or Nevada.


Are you thinking you know all their strategy?

----------


## acptulsa

> Are you thinking you know all their strategy?


I'm sure I don't.  Otherwise I'd be keeping my big mouth shut.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I'm sure I don't.  Otherwise I'd be keeping my big mouth shut.


Well, it kinda seemed like you were saying you did, when you said this:



> It probably is a strategy that would work better someplace like New Hampshire or Nevada.


What am I missing?

----------


## acptulsa

> What am I missing?


The fact that this is unlike any other Republican primary in history.  As any recent glance at HuffPo will confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I don't think we need to overblow a request by the campaign not to overload their systems and make a scene into a request that we not do anything at all to further _our_ arm of this pincers movement for fear of pissing off some people who will be pissed off anyway--either because they hate interlopers more than they want to grow the G.O.P.  or just because Faux tells them to be.

We're doing great things from the other side of this pincers.  Just because the campaign is wisely and sagely refraining from vocally encouraging us doesn't mean we aren't doing something vital.  This is politics, and they can only say so much right now.  This is obvious, and a given.  But that doesn't mean they want to _discourage_ us, only that they can't afford to _encourage_ us.  And it doesn't mean that we serve the cause well by assuming that 'don't get in the way' means 'don't do something other than what we're doing, even if it will help'.

Yes, G.O.P. voters are sensitive and we should avoid offending them.  But some are bound and determined to be offended, and if we can more than replace them I don't know why anyone should object to that.  And we are more than replacing them.  We truly are.

Can we not give each other a little room to maneuver?  You can't close a pincers (any more than you can close a pair of scissors or a pair of pliers) without _appearing_ to be working at cross purposes.  Otherwise you'll never close in on your target from two different sides, will you?

Let's have a little faith in each other.

We're charting new ground.  We're making history.  This is truly unlike any other G.O.P. primary in history.  And we had better think outside the box, or we'll lose.  Period.

In other words, they have their strategy and that's a good thing.  But that doesn't mean we don't need to have our own.  We do need to try to avoid stepping on each others' toes, yes.  But they have theirs, and we need to have our own.  Otherwise, it won't be a highly effective pincers movement.

----------


## acptulsa

In short there's Politically Correct and there's G.O.Politically correct, and they aren't the same thing.  One is the campaign's job right now, and the other must be ours if we're to win.

----------


## parocks

1) I was against the blimp.  I'm comparing this to the blimp.  this would be more effective than the blimp.
"you've got a problem" was a reference to blimp = bad.

2) Using your logic, the media could just write anything.  There doesn't have to be a Ron Paul music event.
They could just say there was.

I have answered your request for a link.

Show the last swearing band goes bad at unofficial political event link. 
Oh, the media is so powerful, they'll write stories about it.

No.  they know that their audiences will think that they're silly and unhip if they want to make a big
deal out of language that a band says at an unofficial rock show.

The media might be able to say anything they want, but they won't say something that hurts them financially,
by making their audience think they're really lame.  I see the msm do that, I'm thinking they're ridiculous,
and so would everyone else.  

I assume you no longer live on planet earth, or have pulled a Winkle, and missed the last 20 years.

3) I don't think the media is showing up for that show. just not interesting enough.  However, I have backed away from concert on 13
at this point, seeing that rporbust will come up with the names.  We don't have to allow media into our show btw.
There is a big spotlight, almost all on straw poll. this is not about cameras.  we can do anything we want when the cameras aren't all right there.
ron paul free show is not designed to be a news event to be covered. Ron Paul supporters are jager girls.  The media doesn't cover jager nights
with the jager girls.

4) Here's the main question for you.  You get bitched at a lot for being entirely negative about grassroots activities.
What is the difference between a campaign volunteer/financial contributor and grassroots? Is there a difference?
What is the difference between the campaign and the grassroots?

I am a believer that everyone in a meetup group, all the meetup groups in Iowa should become part of the campaign hierarchy.  
A town is in one of 5 districts.  The town meetup leader talks to the district leader.  5 districts, 5 bundles of meetups.
The things that a meetup group does are approved by the district leader or not approved.  The meetup group is asking the campaign 
for permission to campaign.  The campaign is likely to say - this is what we want you to do x,y,z.  

You are right about where most of the voters are. 50+.  Right.  And going after 50+ is what the campaign is doing.  And I'm recommending
that people help the official campaign.  All good.

So my question for you is this, again, is there a grassroots?  If so, what does it do?

Because getting 50+ is what the campaign does. Going by the book, using the accepted processes that have proved to be effective.
These have to be done.  Do them. 

People (who wear one of two hats, depending on what they're doing), need to determine whether what they're doing is properly considered
campaign volunteering, or grassroots work.  Most things are campaign volunteering.  Do campaigns send out people to hold candidate signs? Yes.
Therefore, holding signs is something the official campaign does.  If you are going to go out and hold signs, you get approval from the district manager.
Nothing that you do - that's traditional campaign work - should escape notice of the district coordinator.  And you will find very quickly that
the campaign does almost everything.  Door to door.  That's campaign.  Designing a handout.  Campaign.  Newspaper, Radio, TV, all campaign. Phone calls,
campaign.  So when you get down to it, almost everything is campaign.  There is almost nothing that grassroots should do because everything they're
planning to do is done by the campaign.  So, where are you then?  The grassroots has to figure out what they can do that is useful, but is something that
the campaign usually doesn't do.  With Ron Paul Supporters, it is often that they are fighting with the campaign, angry about the campaign.
Saying screw the campaign, we like liberty, we're going to do what we want.  What do you do about those people that you know are there, wanting
to do grassroots things? You can tell them to only do official campaign things, but that doesn't work.  What you need them to do is funnel them into
grassroots projects that aren't high profile, aren't high visibility, don't effect the core voters, doesn't overlap with what the campaign is doing.

Ron Paul Free Show is right for that.  18-24 is a target that the campaign is not going for.  Rock shows are not a method campaigns traditionally
use.  

5)  http://twitter.com/#!/truth_seeker31...37725920616448
there we are
link to lindsay lohan from ron paul

6)  how can you guarantee that your method, which is basically whining, will mean that there are NONE afflicted with RPSAA syndrome at the straw poll.
I believe we have a "on your head" for this one.  We are developing a grassroots security apparatus, where the better RPS deal with the worse RPS.
You have no replacement strategy except trying to talk to each voter and persuade them not to go to.  Good luck, I hope you can talk to every single
out of stater, because if you miss one, and he shows up and embarrasses Ron Paul ... it's  ... on   ... you.




> And how many votes did that get us? Probably none, or at least not enough to make a difference.
> 
> Imagine if that $750k had instead been put into Nevada or Iowa or NH or SC or LA important states, or states that we almost won? It could've pushed us over the top in a few places.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the media writes whatever they want regardless of whether it is factually accurate or even makes logical rational sense. You have no control over what the media will write about this event.
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Thargok

> http://twitter.com/#!/truth_seeker31...37725920616448
> 
> there we are
> 
> link to lindsay lohan from ron paul


If you could take the time to read, you would notice the background clearly states that it is run by a supporter and not a campaign, PAC or Ron Paul himself.  Which is precisely why twitter has accounts with a little blue checkmark signifying it is the person in question, something this account doesn't have in addition to the disclaimer.




> Parocks:
> 
> The campaign asked for out-of-staters to please NOT go to Iowa.
> 
> It's really very simple.
> 
> If you want to help, please sign-up on the campaign's Iowa website.  They still need people to do calling.
> www.iowaforronpaul.com


+rep

----------


## rp08orbust

> rp08orbust will apparently be able to identify enough voters. we don't need more.


I didn't mean to give that impression at all.  I only said I was getting more optimistic that Ron Paul could win the straw poll through conventional means.

But as of right now I don't see the harm in a concert put on by Ron Paul supporters (from in state or out of state) that is far enough away from the straw poll and free of Ron Paul signage where people are urged to go vote for Ron Paul in the straw poll.  How many miles away is "far enough", I don't have a clue.

----------


## parocks

LibertyEagle: what i'm talking about now is less about a concert on the day of the event in Ames, and more about acquiring a room for grassroots organization.
I am not asking for out of staters.  I'm asking for a place for grassroots to have.  this isn't necessarily an open to the public thing.  Perhaps it's somewhat more scruffy Iowans - the ones that didn't make the cut for gal straw poll volunteer who want to work grassroots security.  

I'm not arguing with you.

I will tell you that I had a moderator tell me I should be more positive about stuff and I am.  Have you read and digested my rather lengthy posts which cover in great detail all of these nuances.

I'll leave it up to you then Liberty Eagle.

If we call off the grassroots security, can we count on you to make sure there aren't a bunch of "Ron Paul Supporters" who really could be anyone embarrassing everyone?

What is your system?

----------


## parocks

ok, so the campaign's problem is different.  it can't get control of what looks like Ron Paul's twitter page, which leads to confusion.
There were many many media articles linking Ron Paul and Lindsay Lohan.

----------


## parocks

I mostly agree with you. There's one sentence here from your other post.

"And it doesn't mean that we serve the cause well by assuming that 'don't get in the way' means 'don't do something other than what we're doing, even if it will help'."

It's the opposite.  "Don't get in the way" means exactly "don't do what we're already doing, what we traditionally do."  The campaign does do so many things.  It's tough
to find something that "grassroots" should do.  And grassroots really shouldn't be doing anything really.  You call the campaign and ask for work.  The campaign give you work.  That's it.  But even though this website is called "ron paul forums", apparently there's a missing "grassroots" somewhere.  

Talk to the campaign about that is an answer to most questions.  "Can we do this"  will likely get a result of - if you want to go door to door, we're gonna train you, test you and if you pass, you'll go door to door with the materials we give you.  if you want to run a newspaper ad, we'll discuss it.  Perhaps we can make one for you from our templates.  Or, the tempates are available, and the layout is fixed, so just change the info.

That's how it should run.  Almost everyone who now might see themselves as "grassroots" should be official campaign volunteer.  

The stuff I'm talking about is the kind of stuff grassroots does.  band shows.  not the core of the official campaign.  We don't interact with anyone who is not there voluntarily.  and they're the least likely to be offended by our ron paul supporterness.

my ron paul free shows are designed to be handled entirely by one meetup group or a fraction of one.  what do meetup groups do now?  get them at ron paul free shows.





> In short there's Politically Correct and there's G.O.Politically correct, and they aren't the same thing.  One is the campaign's job right now, and the other must be ours if we're to win.

----------


## acptulsa

> The stuff I'm talking about is the kind of stuff grassroots does.  band shows.  not the core of the official campaign.  We don't interact with anyone who is not there voluntarily.  and they're the least likely to be offended by our ron paul supporterness.
> 
> my ron paul free shows are designed to be handled entirely by one meetup group or a fraction of one.  what do meetup groups do now?  get them at ron paul free shows.


I'm all about it.  It's just about impossible for the campaign to go after two disparate groups of potential supporters without appearing schzophrenic and pissing someone off.  Perhaps I talk too much about a 'pincers movement'.  Perhaps I should be saying the Official Campaign is there to operate above the board in pursuit of above the board supporters, and the grassroots is digging for all those potential  underground voters...

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> The fact that this is unlike any other Republican primary in history.  As any recent glance at HuffPo will confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt.


Well I don't know how that's true or not, nor do I know how you quantify it, but regardless, electoral math and political science are still in effect. The laws of human nature haven't been suspended.



> Yes, G.O.P. voters are sensitive and we should avoid offending them.  But some are bound and determined to be offended, and if we can more than replace them I don't know why anyone should object to that.


No we can't, or have you not been paying attention the last 4 years? We must convince them to RP, it's the only way Republicans will vote for him.







> This is truly unlike any other G.O.P. primary in history.  And we had better think outside the box, or we'll lose.  Period.


Wrong. Elections are not won by obscure, esoteric, novel, or experimental approaches. They are won by tried and true proven methods.

In 2008 we tried the "outside the box" approach and how did we fare in the ballot box?

This time if we want to achieve electoral victory, we must use proven methods that are known to work.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> LibertyEagle: what i'm talking about now is less about a concert on the day of the event in Ames, and more about acquiring a room for grassroots organization.
> I am not asking for out of staters.  I'm asking for a place for grassroots to have.  this isn't necessarily an open to the public thing.  Perhaps it's somewhat more scruffy Iowans - the ones that didn't make the cut for gal straw poll volunteer who want to work grassroots security.  
> 
> I'm not arguing with you.
> 
> I will tell you that I had a moderator tell me I should be more positive about stuff and I am.  Have you read and digested my rather lengthy posts which cover in great detail all of these nuances.
> 
> I'll leave it up to you then Liberty Eagle.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, at this point I have no idea what you are talking about.  Before you were talking about holding concerts around the Iowa Straw Poll; now, you're acting as if the plan is to provide a "grassroots security system" at the Iowa Straw poll and you somehow think these people will be the judge of who are good supporters and who are bad supporters.

Totally bizarre.

----------


## acptulsa

Bonaparte, if you can't see how disaffected anti-corporatists and peaceniks have become by Obama over the last four years, you're the one who has been asleep--or you're in denial.

If you can't give credit where credit is due, at least chill out.  Damn.  If you didn't have a moral objection to giving HuffPo even one hit, you'd know where the hell I'm coming from here.

Elections are never won by novel methods.  Sure thing, dude.  By your logic, playing Fleetwood Mac instead of _Happy Days Are Here Again_ at the 1992 Democratic convention should have cost Clinton the general election...

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Show the last swearing band goes bad at unofficial political event link. 
> Oh, the media is so powerful, they'll write stories about it.
> 
> No.  they know that their audiences will think that they're silly and unhip if they want to make a big
> deal out of language that a band says at an unofficial rock show.
> 
> The media might be able to say anything they want, but they won't say something that hurts them financially,
> by making their audience think they're really lame.  I see the msm do that, I'm thinking they're ridiculous,
> and so would everyone else.


This is where your logical fallacy becomes apparent and your train of thought breaks down and is indefendable.

Just because you think the MSM is lame and ridiculous (and I agree with you) doesn't mean everyone does. The average Republican, especially over the age of 50, doesn't think so and we know that for sure.





> 3) I don't think the media is showing up for that show. just not interesting enough.


You have never been to Iowa have you?




> We don't have to allow media into our show btw.


That's impossible to control.





> So my question for you is this, again, is there a grassroots?  If so, what does it do?


Tries to win a Republican primary / caucus by focusing on proven methods that work, and helps the Campaign by doing what they ask for.




> Because getting 50+ is what the campaign does. Going by the book, using the accepted processes that have proved to be effective.
> These have to be done.  Do them. 
> 
> 
> There is almost nothing that grassroots should do because everything they're
> planning to do is done by the campaign.  
> 
> 
> With Ron Paul Supporters, it is often that they are fighting with the campaign, angry about the campaign.
> ...


Looks to me like you are trying hurt Ron's chances. Your actions, if carried out, are irresponsible, and possibly even damaging to Ron and his campaign. You should focus your resources on more productive projects such as signing up to phonebank, donating, or organizing your local area for RP.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Bonaparte, if you can't see how disaffected anti-corporatists and peaceniks have become by Obama over the last four years, you're the one who has been asleep--or you're in denial.


Of course, but most of them DON'T vote, and of those that do, very few of them would be willing to come over to the GOP and vote for Ron. In fact it's so few of them that it's not worth wasting resources over.


All of our resources MUST be focused on convincing Republicans to vote for Ron Paul. It's really just that simple.

----------


## acptulsa

> Looks to me like you are trying hurt Ron's chances. Your actions, if carried out, are irresponsible, and possibly even damaging to Ron and his campaign. You should focus your resources on more productive projects such as signing up to phonebank, donating, or organizing your local area for RP.


Definitely beneficial, even if it only gains five voters for Paul more than for anyone else--and it's bound to do that.  _Possibly_ harmful, and arguably not irresponsible unless it is harmful.  Are you not capable of seeing the bottom line here?

Sanctimoniousness won't grow the G.O.P. or win this election.  Period.  And anyone who doesn't understand that simple fact _is_ simple.

Hell, trying to circumvent the MSM is 'unconventional', and trying to discredit them is more so.  Yet if we hadn't done this, no one to this day would know who Ron Paul is.  Seriously.

Just because you can't get your head outside the box doesn't mean we're in any way wrong for doing so.  Hell, with my anti-authoritarian attitude I'm quite sure I'd do more harm than good doing it your way.  And I'm one hundred percent certain I've convinced people to reregister Republican to vote for Ron Paul in the primary--one hundred percent certain.  So why don't you leave me at liberty to keep doing what good I'm actually capable of doing?  Huh?

By the way, if you go to Judge Nap's Facebook page you'll learn he disagrees with you and agrees with me...

----------


## parocks

1)  You have very poor reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills.

Here is what I said 

"Show the last swearing band goes bad at unofficial political event link."

I wanted you to show me that what you were worrying about wasn't completely ridiculous.
That what you were worried about has some basis in fact.  That there was evidence to
support your theory.

But you just skipped right by that part.

Also, 

"No. they know that their audiences will think that they're silly and unhip if they want to make a big
 deal out of language that a band says at an unofficial rock show."

and you responded with 

"Just because you think the MSM is lame and ridiculous (and I agree with you) 
doesn't mean everyone does. The average Republican, especially over the age of 50, 
doesn't think so and we know that for sure."

I said the msm Does Not Want To Look Silly and Unhip Because They Lose Viewers.

You say that I "think the MSM is lame and ridiculous" no.  I'm saying they Won't Be Lame.

Get it.  It's the opposite.

2) Point to Nap, except for a technicality.

3) The media is not allowed everywhere.  We can ban the media.

4)  "Tries to win a Republican primary / caucus by focusing on proven methods that work, and helps the Campaign by doing what they ask for."
Is that one thing, or 2 different things.  I'm all for people doing what the campaign gives them.  That they do phone calling - trained and working the
campaigns list - just like volunteers and none of those weird "they're here, but they can't work for you because of some obscure regulation that
someone misunderstood.  If the grassroots is deciding for themselves to use proven methods but the campaign doesn't want them to, that's worse
than the grassroots using unorthodox methods, making sure that they

The grassroots is official campaign volunteers, yes?

5)  I am trying to help Ron Paul by channeling the grassroots energies away from stuff we don't want now like people waving signs months and months before
the election.  People think it's weird.  It's July people.  People know who Ron Paul is now.  Cut it out.  It's embarrassing.
I'm thinking they can sit in their own little room, not seen in public, asking like jager girls with android tablets taking peoples data down.
There is nothing that could happen that is worse that people standing around in July waving signs, unless it is at a very important political event
and you are instructed to.  You could plant a sign in your yard.  or wait until a couple weeks before the caucus, like a normal person.
Much of what I've seen up close and personal - 3 days in NH for Primary - was horrifying.  Ray and Marshall, who did the Ron Paul Bash which I mentioned
did a good job.  They worked for the campaign.  They were there longer than I was.  I was able to get real work too on election day, 
but most of the people around were doing weird stuff or nothing at all.  And you don't like the idea of Ron Paul near rock bands.

One thing I just realized.  You know that we're talking about 2 different things here, at least. 

Thing 1) Day of Ames Straw Poll.  

All I'm talking about is getting an area for grassroots staffers to use as HQ at this point, but
rporbust seems to have a nuanced position on this, and I'm taking my cues from him on Ames day stuff.  He doesn't seem to think it's needed, but
he doesn't think a small concert (or similar type event) without RP signage would be bad

Thing 2) Ron Paul Free Show.

This is a small venue concert series.  This is not what the Ames Event would be.  This is a very simple project that any meetup can do.  I will spoonfeed
the meetups.  They tell me they have the money for the show and I put the show together and I tell them their instructions.  "load in"
they have a small number of simple tasks to accomplish.  put up a booth.  make one speech (optional).  get their email addresses and more.
It will actually be fairly dull.  The Ron Paul Supporters are like the Jager girls.  Jagermeister / Jager Girls don't get blamed.










> This is where your logical fallacy becomes apparent and your train of thought breaks down and is indefendable.
> 
> Just because you think the MSM is lame and ridiculous (and I agree with you) doesn't mean everyone does. The average Republican, especially over the age of 50, doesn't think so and we know that for sure.
> 
> 
> You have never been to Iowa have you?
> 
> That's impossible to control.
> 
> ...

----------


## Badger Paul

"but most of them DON'T vote,"

Really? I wonder how Obama won then in 2008.

They not has a matter of habit, but you make an appeal and focus to them they will.

----------


## parocks

I'm trying to understand their arguments.  I might have it.  It's somewhere between Liberty Eagle and Napoleon.  

Out of staters make bad pictures.  good looking ones, bad looking ones.  Cooped up in a rock band venue for being
bad at the straw poll.  And rock bands.  Even swearing, it doesn't become a "story", it's not "bad", but if what this guy
says is right, and we can't keep live tv cameras, or cameras that are shooting footage for a story, or any media from
showing the place we take our "bad for tv" people to?  The reason we're there in the first place is to make the tv pictures better.

Maybe we need to figure out a foolproof system to get our bad ones away where we they won't be on camera again.

They aren't using any of the arguments that I'd expect.  Grassroots would do a poor job of security.  I've seen no sign that the grassroots is capable of
organizing itself into a functional unit.  Whatever system the grassroots comes up with will likely fail.  For every tea party there was a blimp.  For every money bomb there was a Manchester snowball.  Basically, the concern is just that off message pix and video will come out of that space.  Off message is a worry, sure, I'm worried the tv commercial that will be great might be off message.  That "bad" footage that we're talking about would only be shown once.




> Definitely beneficial, even if it only gains five voters for Paul more than for anyone else--and it's bound to do that.  _Possibly_ harmful, and arguably not irresponsible unless it is harmful.  Are you not capable of seeing the bottom line here?
> 
> Sanctimoniousness won't grow the G.O.P. or win this election.  Period.  And anyone who doesn't understand that simple fact _is_ simple.
> 
> Hell, trying to circumvent the MSM is 'unconventional', and trying to discredit them is more so.  Yet if we hadn't done this, no one to this day would know who Ron Paul is.  Seriously.
> 
> Just because you can't get your head outside the box doesn't mean we're in any way wrong for doing so.  Hell, with my anti-authoritarian attitude I'm quite sure I'd do more harm than good doing it your way.  And I'm one hundred percent certain I've convinced people to reregister Republican to vote for Ron Paul in the primary--one hundred percent certain.  So why don't you leave me at liberty to keep doing what good I'm actually capable of doing?  Huh?
> 
> By the way, if you go to Judge Nap's Facebook page you'll learn he disagrees with you and agrees with me...

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> "but most of them DON'T vote,"
> 
> Really? I wonder how Obama won then in 2008.


Because people were tired of GW Bush and Obama was perceived as the opposite of GW.

----------


## acptulsa

> Because people were tired of GW Bush and Obama was perceived as the opposite of GW.


And now people are tired of Obama and Ron Paul is perceived as the opposite of Obama.  If you understood all along the 'proven tactic' we were employing, why did you accuse us of using unproven tactics?  You are now officially arguing the position contrary to your own objection.  Congratulations.

----------


## Xander Crews

I find it funny that people are saying that to elect Ron Paul we need to stick to the standard campaign, standard tactics, and stay away from anything out of the ordinary.  Why are we promoting a status quo campaign for someone who thrashes the status quo every chance he gets?

Regardless, I have a different view than ya'll anyway, I don't view this as Ron Paul's fight, this is Americas fight, America's revolution, America's march toward freedom, Ron Paul is just part of it.

Wasn't it Ron Paul's unconventional campaign and the overwhelming response that got him this far?

(Remember, I am not talking some huge super concert, I am talking about fun gatherings for like minded people to get the message of freedom out there, the message of "Vote for Ron Paul" is secondary yet intimately tied to the message of freedom as he is the only Presidential candidate that believes in it, besides Gary Johnson, who I would and do support publicly as well.)

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Why are we promoting a status quo campaign for someone who thrashes the status quo every chance he gets?
> 
> Wasn't it Ron Paul's unconventional campaign and the overwhelming response that got him this far?


I think it got him 6% nationwide last time. Wouldn't you like to do better than that?

----------


## Xander Crews

> I think it got him 6% nationwide last time. Wouldn't you like to do better than that?


Yeah, and he was unknown at the beginning of his 2008 campaign, where he is possibly the most talked about candidate today.  America is also waking up to reality and finding that Ron Paul is and has been correct.  It isn't a change in Ron Paul bringing up more support, it is a change among the American  people.

----------


## acptulsa

> Yeah, and he was unknown at the beginning of his 2008 campaign, where he is possibly the most talked about candidate today.  America is also waking up to reality and finding that Ron Paul is and has been correct.  It isn't a change in Ron Paul bringing up more support, it is a change among the American  people.


And as libertygrl is finding out, and complaining about in another thread, the very people Bonaparte is counting on exclusively are the very people most resistant to the idea.  Thus our outreach.  Thus our efforts to explore new ground.  Thus our efforts to find and convert the disaffected.

Wish Mr. W. would have another word with the boy.  Meanwhile, I don't know about you, but I'm not going to let him bother me...

----------


## acptulsa

> I'm trying to understand their arguments.  I might have it.  It's somewhere between Liberty Eagle and Napoleon.


I don't think you get it at all.  I think in LE's case, a little knowledge was merely a dangerous thing.  She seems to take some people a little more seriously than their own bosses do.

As for Napoleon Complex, I'm pretty sure that if he was half as worried about possibly offending a fifty year old evangelist or two as he lets on, he wouldn't have been turning around and bragging in another thread about Dr. Paul's stance on marijuana.  I'm ninety-eight percent sure he just doesn't want the grassroots to do anything seriously cool unless he can claim credit for it.  So, the next time you guys get an outstanding idea like this, put him on ignore and go for it.  Seriously.

Rock on.

----------


## Thargok

> I don't think you get it at all.  I think in LE's case, a little knowledge was merely a dangerous thing.  She seems to take some people a little more seriously than their own bosses do.
> 
> As for Napoleon Complex, I'm pretty sure that if he was half as worried about possibly offending a fifty year old evangelist or two as he lets on, he wouldn't have been turning around and bragging in another thread about Dr. Paul's stance on marijuana.  I'm ninety-eight percent sure he just doesn't want the grassroots to do anything seriously cool unless he can claim credit for it.  So, the next time you guys get an outstanding idea like this, put him on ignore and go for it.  Seriously.
> 
> Rock on.


I forgot you were trying to lose.  If you want to PM me your details I'll send you a Romney bumper sticker to put beside your McCain one.

----------


## acptulsa

> I forgot you were trying to lose.  If you want to PM me your details I'll send you a Romney bumper sticker to put beside your McCain one.


It's going to take more than neocons to win this thing.  We're growing the G.O.P.  Whether the G.O.P. wants to grow or not.

Just don't tell anyone and it'll all be fine.  But, hey, if you want to let the cat out of the bag that's fine too.  Republicans are so confused, and getting so many candidates thrown at them, that we can attract enough independents, disaffected Democrats, and young people who are dying to have someone sane to vote for to create the biggest Republican voting bloc without the help of a single Republican.  So don't sweat it.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I don't think you get it at all.  *I think in LE's case, a little knowledge was merely a dangerous thing.  She seems to take some people a little more seriously than their own bosses do.*
> 
> As for Napoleon Complex, I'm pretty sure that if he was half as worried about possibly offending a fifty year old evangelist or two as he lets on, he wouldn't have been turning around and bragging in another thread about Dr. Paul's stance on marijuana.  I'm ninety-eight percent sure he just doesn't want the grassroots to do anything seriously cool unless he can claim credit for it.  So, the next time you guys get an outstanding idea like this, put him on ignore and go for it.  Seriously.
> 
> Rock on.


Care to explain?

----------


## acptulsa

> Care to explain?


Of course.  Expect a pm.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> I'm ninety-eight percent sure he just doesn't want the grassroots to do anything seriously cool unless he can claim credit for it.  So, the next time you guys get an outstanding idea like this, put him on ignore and go for it.  Seriously.


Actually I hate to tell you this, I don't want the grassroots to do anything "cool". I want the grassroots to win!

Campaigns are not won by the "cool" factor. If you've ever worked on a winning campaign then you know it is anything but cool or sexy. It's going door to door, and making hundreds of hours worth of phone calls. Very boring stuff actually and definitely not cool. 

If you want to be cool, that's one thing, but the rest of us are trying to win.

----------


## acptulsa

We need the idealistic youth vote.  They're hard to motivate.  This would motivate them.  It would get them to Ames.

I'm not trying to minimize the risks.  I'm not saying that we need to create a tail that would wag the dog.  Risks like this can be minimized.  The size of the event can be held down by announcing well in advance that registered Iowa voters--or better yet, those with proof of Straw Poll participation--will be let in cheap or free and anyone esle will either be kept out or be expected to pay through the nose.  This would keep this effort from overshadowing the main event very, very effectively, would help insure that it remains peaceful, and would address very valid concerns that it not draw a big crowd of out-of-staters who might not fit in well with the locals.  And the people advocating such a thing have all been bending over backwards to find ways to say this and promise this, and are only frustrated because some here seem not to be listening.

Reaching out to voters is a proven campaign tactic.  It's a campaign tactic that has won.  There are disaffected Americans out there--lots and lots and lots of them--who feel like their voices mean less than nothing to Washington, D.C. and if we can make them see that their voices mean something to Ron Paul (which is a very true statement) then they can carry us to the White House and we can save this country.  But we'll never get them by saying they are unimportant and the only important thing at all is educating Republicans over fifty sooner or later.  Educating Republicans over fifty about pot sooner or later is *absolutely not a winning strategy in 2012 and if you say otherwise you're being intellectually dishonest.*

Lead, follow or get out of the way.  We're in this to win it--because we love our children--and we're not going to settle for begging people set in their ways--people who aren't prime targets because they're not disaffected, every candidate out there is pandering to their prejudices--to grow open minds by 2016 or 2020.  Period.

Now, I'll say again.  The official campaign must do what the official campaign must do to keep our man as viable as possible among the traditional primary voters which are the obvious target for a primary.   But what the hell good is grassroots if we're afraid to target the real, live, winnable voters that the official campaign must of necessity to court and woo in an obvious manner?  We are not chopped liver.  And neither are untraditional, disaffected, angry voters.  They are the majority, and we need them.

All we're asking of those of you who can't get your head out of the box is that you try to maybe have just a little faith in the rest of us.  We understand your fears and concerns better than you think we do, and we aren't stupid enough to ignore them.  *We are on the same side as you.*

/rant.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Educating Republicans over fifty about pot sooner or later is *absolutely not a winning strategy in 2012 and if you say otherwise you're being intellectually dishonest.*


Electoral victory is not achieved by "educating" anyone. Electoral victory is achieved by convincing likely voters to vote for your candidate. That's a lot easier than trying to change their paradigm shift.





> All we're asking of those of you who can't get your head out of the box is that you try to maybe have just a little faith in the rest of us.


Elections are not won by thinking out of the box, they are won by hard focused effort implementing proven strategies.

----------


## acptulsa

> Electoral victory is not achieved by "educating" anyone. Electoral victory is achieved by convincing likely voters to vote for your candidate. That's a lot easier than trying to change their paradigm shift.


This isn't about shifting the paradigm of existing, pissed off voters.  This is about tapping it.





> Elections are not won by thinking out of the box, they are won by hard focused effort implementing proven strategies.


Get out the vote events are a proven strategy.  If you think this one will offend more voters than it will win, get your nose out of your polysci 101 textbook and tell us some more _specific fears_ that we can address and prevent.  Otherwise, hush.  Because we've already addressed Steve's valid and specific concerns six ways from Sunday.

----------


## parocks

You might like these new urls
http://ronpaulfreeshow.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ron-Pa...=wall&filter=1
The ronpaulfreeshow.com points to the facebook for now.

I'm just going to start doing Ron Paul Free Shows.

I talked to a guy from a band who played Ron Paul Bash in HBG which drew 450 rock bands and ron paul fans, and he seems to think my idea is a piece of cake, so, i'm
going forward.   





> We need the idealistic youth vote.  They're hard to motivate.  This would motivate them.  It would get them to Ames.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimize the risks.  I'm not saying that we need to create a tail that would wag the dog.  Risks like this can be minimized.  The size of the event can be held down by announcing well in advance that registered Iowa voters--or better yet, those with proof of Straw Poll participation--will be let in cheap or free and anyone esle will either be kept out or be expected to pay through the nose.  This would keep this effort from overshadowing the main event very, very effectively, would help insure that it remains peaceful, and would address very valid concerns that it not draw a big crowd of out-of-staters who might not fit in well with the locals.  And the people advocating such a thing have all been bending over backwards to find ways to say this and promise this, and are only frustrated because some here seem not to be listening.
> 
> Reaching out to voters is a proven campaign tactic.  It's a campaign tactic that has won.  There are disaffected Americans out there--lots and lots and lots of them--who feel like their voices mean less than nothing to Washington, D.C. and if we can make them see that their voices mean something to Ron Paul (which is a very true statement) then they can carry us to the White House and we can save this country.  But we'll never get them by saying they are unimportant and the only important thing at all is educating Republicans over fifty sooner or later.  Educating Republicans over fifty about pot sooner or later is *absolutely not a winning strategy in 2012 and if you say otherwise you're being intellectually dishonest.*
> 
> Lead, follow or get out of the way.  We're in this to win it--because we love our children--and we're not going to settle for begging people set in their ways--people who aren't prime targets because they're not disaffected, every candidate out there is pandering to their prejudices--to grow open minds by 2016 or 2020.  Period.
> 
> Now, I'll say again.  The official campaign must do what the official campaign must do to keep our man as viable as possible among the traditional primary voters which are the obvious target for a primary.   But what the hell good is grassroots if we're afraid to target the real, live, winnable voters that the official campaign must of necessity to court and woo in an obvious manner?  We are not chopped liver.  And neither are untraditional, disaffected, angry voters.  They are the majority, and we need them.
> ...

----------


## parocks

My buddy who played Ron Paul Bash last time did not know that Ron Paul was running. There was more energy last time because Ron Paul was so new to them and they were surprised.

One thing people should consider is that I doubt that Ron Paul would've talked about junkies in the first debate the way he did if he was that worried about offending socons.




> Yeah, and he was unknown at the beginning of his 2008 campaign, where he is possibly the most talked about candidate today.  America is also waking up to reality and finding that Ron Paul is and has been correct.  It isn't a change in Ron Paul bringing up more support, it is a change among the American  people.

----------


## parocks

Xander - what do you think of this - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ron-Pa...=wall&filter=1 - http://ronpaulfreeshow.com will be forwarded to the facebook for now.




> I find it funny that people are saying that to elect Ron Paul we need to stick to the standard campaign, standard tactics, and stay away from anything out of the ordinary.  Why are we promoting a status quo campaign for someone who thrashes the status quo every chance he gets?
> 
> Regardless, I have a different view than ya'll anyway, I don't view this as Ron Paul's fight, this is Americas fight, America's revolution, America's march toward freedom, Ron Paul is just part of it.
> 
> Wasn't it Ron Paul's unconventional campaign and the overwhelming response that got him this far?
> 
> (Remember, I am not talking some huge super concert, I am talking about fun gatherings for like minded people to get the message of freedom out there, the message of "Vote for Ron Paul" is secondary yet intimately tied to the message of freedom as he is the only Presidential candidate that believes in it, besides Gary Johnson, who I would and do support publicly as well.)

----------


## Xander Crews

> Xander - what do you think of this - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ron-Pa...=wall&filter=1 - http://ronpaulfreeshow.com will be forwarded to the facebook for now.


I love it!

----------


## Xander Crews

I live in Denver, CO and I would like to set up an event here eventually.  

Some of you posters are ridiculous, if you abandon the youth vote guess where it will go.  People who support Ron Paul do so because they are smart and understand the problems America faces, they wont abandon Ron Paul because some supporters throw a show in support of him.

"Oh noez, don't do anything that could maybe possibly be the slightest bit controversial, you will ruin the campaign!"  GET OUT OF HERE!  We are talking about a guy who told social conservatives in South Carolina that he wants to legalize HEROIN... and you are getting all worked up because a supporter *might* curse on stage?  You people are being absurd.

----------


## parocks

> I love it!


Cool,  Probably in August I'm thinking 3 back to back to back shows in Central PA.  That area and the Midcoast Maine area are places where
I know my way around a bit.  

What I'm thinking about doing is using the events part differently that usual.
Typically events are confirmed events.  Here, I'd like to include proposed events.
Status: Confirmed
Status: Proposed
And the comments where the details of the show are hammered out.
Progress reports.  Perhaps an embedded chip in if that was possible.

----------


## parocks

Converge, Underoath, Zao.  There you got Denver's Free Ron Paul Show.  





> I live in Denver, CO and I would like to set up an event here eventually.  
> 
> Some of you posters are ridiculous, if you abandon the youth vote guess where it will go.  People who support Ron Paul do so because they are smart and understand the problems America faces, they wont abandon Ron Paul because some supporters throw a show in support of him.
> 
> "Oh noez, don't do anything that could maybe possibly be the slightest bit controversial, you will ruin the campaign!"  GET OUT OF HERE!  We are talking about a guy who told social conservatives in South Carolina that he wants to legalize HEROIN... and you are getting all worked up because a supporter *might* curse on stage?  You people are being absurd.

----------


## Xander Crews

We could also target bands that believe in freedom enough to do shows free despite their fame:  All That Remains, All Shall Perish, Flobots, David Allen Coe, Willie Nelson, Trivium, and Rage Against The Machine are a few off the top of my head.  

I don't know if I would make show like that about Ron Paul though, maybe FreedomFest or something... in that case Ron Paul may even be accessible to have come speak, but that is a separate idea from the Ron Paul free show.

----------


## parocks

I'm going with people I've met, hung out with, people who know people, that kind of thing.  I don't really know a lot of the rockstars I've met that well, but I still know well the people who do know them well.  I'm really kind of joking there, but lower level metalcore could be affordable.  I'm not really looking very closely at political views.  It really doesn't matter to what my core goal is, which is to get people to know and like Ron Paul.




> We could also target bands that believe in freedom enough to do shows free despite their fame:  All That Remains, All Shall Perish, Flobots, David Allen Coe, Willie Nelson, Trivium, and Rage Against The Machine are a few off the top of my head.  
> 
> I don't know if I would make show like that about Ron Paul though, maybe FreedomFest or something... in that case Ron Paul may even be accessible to have come speak, but that is a separate idea from the Ron Paul free show.

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## parocks

http://pollstar.com/resultsVenue.asp...45&SortBy=Date - you go there?

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## Thargok

> Some of you posters are ridiculous, if you abandon the youth vote guess where it will go.  People who support Ron Paul do so because they are smart and understand the problems America faces, they wont abandon Ron Paul because some supporters throw a show in support of him..


First and foremost, your method worked great in 08.  From the looks of polls it works great today, Ron has a higher name recognition than most of the candidates and yet he still isn't winning, so not targeting people doesn't work unless you are trying to lose.

The youth vote doesn't vote, 50% are registered to vote, and then 50% of those actually vote.  75% of people aged 18-24 don't vote and haven't in 40 years of research.  Of the 25% that do vote, 80% don't vote in primaries, and the others typically vote either party line, or what Matt Damon tells them to.  You can't lose votes you never get.  We probably do have a strong solid 8% of the youth vote, but a concert isn't going to help out the demographics.

On the other hand, you can target people who vote in Republican primaries and then you know those people are going to vote.  But even if you didn't, you know that ages 55+ have a registration in the 70-80% range with 70% turnout of registered voters, and 60-80% voting in the primaries. (particularly women)

__________________________________________________  _________________________
Of course what do I know, it's not like I've done election work or anything. /sarcasm

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## parocks

The official campaign targets the core, mainstream voters.  The grassroots works on projects where a different aspect of Ron Paul's record is used.  Attempt at somewhat precise targeting.  People, let's say people in a meetup group, and do a wide variety of different things.  They might enjoy sign waving and door to door and making phone calls.  If they like to do that, that's what they should do, and that's handled by the official campaign.  Are meetups part of the campaign hierarchy?  I don't think so, but a lot of stuff they do is typically handled by the campaign.  A handful from a meetup group could do the actual work necessary.  Some people don't want to do the campaign stuff.  This grassroots project is just right for them.  And in theory, the people working on this project are exactly where they should be.  People that rural Iowans are going to want to talking to at their door are not the same people that want to be involved in rock shows.

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## LibertyEagle

> We could also target bands that believe in freedom enough to do shows free despite their fame:  All That Remains, All Shall Perish, Flobots, David Allen Coe, Willie Nelson, Trivium, and *Rage Against The Machine* are a few off the top of my head.  
> 
> I don't know if I would make show like that about Ron Paul though, maybe FreedomFest or something... in that case Ron Paul may even be accessible to have come speak, but that is a separate idea from the Ron Paul free show.


Last time I checked, Rage Against the Machine advocated Marxism.  Marxism ≠ Freedom

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## thehighwaymanq

I don't know if you guys saw this Daily Paul post on the similar idea: http://www.dailypaul.com/170019/why-...omment-1796480

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## Xander Crews

> First and foremost, your method worked great in 08.  From the looks of polls it works great today, Ron has a higher name recognition than most of the candidates and yet he still isn't winning, so not targeting people doesn't work unless you are trying to lose.
> 
> The youth vote doesn't vote, 50% are registered to vote, and then 50% of those actually vote.  75% of people aged 18-24 don't vote and haven't in 40 years of research.  Of the 25% that do vote, 80% don't vote in primaries, and the others typically vote either party line, or what Matt Damon tells them to.  You can't lose votes you never get.  We probably do have a strong solid 8% of the youth vote, but a concert isn't going to help out the demographics.
> 
> On the other hand, you can target people who vote in Republican primaries and then you know those people are going to vote.  But even if you didn't, you know that ages 55+ have a registration in the 70-80% range with 70% turnout of registered voters, and 60-80% voting in the primaries. (particularly women)
> 
> __________________________________________________  _________________________
> Of course what do I know, it's not like I've done election work or anything. /sarcasm


God your skull is thick, you are talking about the status quo, what normally happens.  I am speaking of a revolution... this is a special time in our history.  Maybe if the campaigns didn't ignore the youth more would vote.  "The youth have a bad track record of voting so instead of reaching out to them, lets ignore them completely."  Puh-lease.  You do know young people are at the core of all revolutions, don't you?




> Last time I checked, Rage Against the Machine advocated Marxism.  Marxism ≠ Freedom


I don't really listen to them, so I didn't know that... I was going on what I have heard randomly about them.  Thanks for the info!

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## Thargok

> God your skull is thick, you are talking about the status quo, what normally happens.  I am speaking of a revolution... this is a special time in our history.  Maybe if the campaigns didn't ignore the youth more would vote.  "The youth have a bad track record of voting so instead of reaching out to them, lets ignore them completely."  Puh-lease.  You do know young people are at the core of all revolutions, don't you?


These are not my *feelings*, unlike yourself I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.  These are statistics you can argue with them all you want, but you might as well be looking me in the face and tell me that 3 is 4.  Polls that don't push candidates are accurate, and statistics don't lie.  Youth don't vote because youth don't vote, it has something to do with the age group.  It was true in the 1960's it was true in the 1990's it was true in 2010 and it will be true in 2012.  If you don't like it, too bad, it is what it is.

----------


## Xander Crews

> These are not my *feelings*, unlike yourself I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.  These are statistics you can argue with them all you want, but you might as well be looking me in the face and tell me that 3 is 4.  Polls that don't push candidates are accurate, and statistics don't lie.  Youth don't vote because youth don't vote, it has something to do with the age group.  It was true in the 1960's it was true in the 1990's it was true in 2010 and it will be true in 2012.  If you don't like it, too bad, it is what it is.


First of all, do not make assumptions about what I do and do not believe in.  Second, the Ron Paul movement is something we have not seen in the last 40 years, it is more about freedom than Ron Paul, you sound like the nay-sayers during the American revolution, they said it was impossible and two years later it had happened.  Guess what bud, statistics change, and we can change them.  Has there been a major movement in the last 40 years where Americans had just had enough?  NO.  What you are saying is that if something is true at one point in time, it will always be true in the future, an asinine argument at best.

Do you not want young people to vote?  Are you ok with their lack of interest?  Because you are hella against changing it. 

You would think as a Ron Paul supporter you would want support from all angles, but you say eff the young...  If I go out and get young people to vote for Ron Paul, and you get older folks to vote for him, are we not on the same team?  

Blacks vote Democrat, lets ignore them.  Older folks tend to be socially conservative, lets ignore them.  Young people don't vote, lets ignore them.  Do you see the problem with your stereotypical view yet?  Young people don't vote, so your solution is to alienate and ignore them... that will improve the youth vote situation fo sho!  Your tactic is akin to Obama spending more money to solve the debt crisis:  Here is a problem, so let's just ignore it and move on doing the same thing that created the problem in the first place.  You do realize that is what you are doing right?

I am not asking to take any of the resources away from the campaign targeted at older folks, I am not asking for your time, or your money.  Why are you so against me spending my time and my money if it equates to more votes for Ron Paul??

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## Napoleon's Shadow

> God your skull is thick, you are talking about the status quo, what normally happens.  I am speaking of a revolution...


Revolution is not achieved through electoral victory. This year, we are seeking electoral victory.

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## Xander Crews

> Revolution is not achieved through electoral victory. This year, we are seeking electoral victory.


Umm that is the only way a peaceful revolution is possible...

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## DjLoTi

> Who HAS done this before?


Sooo I helped coordinate lots of events in 2008, one of which was Ronstock. I worked with the guy who threw Ronstock. I could also probably pull together a huge concert type thing (like the one in LA) in NH. I am about to go to the big up festival, which is a festival my friends are throwing. I can probably talk to them and maybe we could get a GOTV with some really awesome bands in NH. That is, of course, if people are willing to donate to such a cause to make it happen. Throwing events are not easy, and yeah we can sell tickets, but the power of the grassroots is something special, and I'm sure we could make something happen rather smoothly. 

Anyway I totally have tons of experience. I need to start getting more active. I have been slacking. I will say this - all you people who discourage the idea, should really consider what you're discouraging. Talking about these ideas I think is productive and has potential. Maybe I'm a musician and I'm slightly biased, but the grassroots and music and the whole 'scene' should be recognized and definitely more utilized.

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## acptulsa

> Revolution is not achieved through electoral victory.


Gee, I could have sworn that both the federalists and anti-federalists were determined to make revolution through electoral victory possible.  And I could have sworn they succeeded.  Do they not teach this in civics any more?

Actually, I guess that's a silly question.  Of course they don't.  But they did back in my day.

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## DjLoTi

Ronstock happened because 1 guy wanted it to happen. So it happened. All you naysayers, maybe you should check yourself. You might tell the 1 guy the wrong thing and lose your revolution

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## speciallyblend

> Ronstock happened because 1 guy wanted it to happen. So it happened. All you naysayers, maybe you should check yourself. You might tell the 1 guy the wrong thing and lose your revolution


   keep up the good work!!

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## DjLoTi

> keep up the good work!!


Hehe noo noo... I don't deserve any credit this go around. Not yet anyway. I think I need to though. It doesn't seem like anyone is stepping up in this area. Personally I think it's a really big deal. Other people disagree.

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## parocks

It's plenty plenty early.  I've started with Ron Paul Free Show, which is in my sig.  Those are supposed to be small shows that a single meetup can buy
for $300-$500, which I can put together and put a bow around.  Those are not designed to move Ron Paul supporters to the gas station.  In 2007 Ron Paul Bash
drew around 450 to Dragonfly Club in Harrisburg, PA.  There is a place for larger more complicated events that are designed to be big and important.  From being in NH during the primary and right before, I know that events that can take people away from where they can be harmful is a good thing.  That sounds like what you're trying to do.  Ron Paul Free Show might be useful to those who are planning larger events, who are trying to find bands to play Ron Paul events.




> Sooo I helped coordinate lots of events in 2008, one of which was Ronstock. I worked with the guy who threw Ronstock. I could also probably pull together a huge concert type thing (like the one in LA) in NH. I am about to go to the big up festival, which is a festival my friends are throwing. I can probably talk to them and maybe we could get a GOTV with some really awesome bands in NH. That is, of course, if people are willing to donate to such a cause to make it happen. Throwing events are not easy, and yeah we can sell tickets, but the power of the grassroots is something special, and I'm sure we could make something happen rather smoothly. 
> 
> Anyway I totally have tons of experience. I need to start getting more active. I have been slacking. I will say this - all you people who discourage the idea, should really consider what you're discouraging. Talking about these ideas I think is productive and has potential. Maybe I'm a musician and I'm slightly biased, but the grassroots and music and the whole 'scene' should be recognized and definitely more utilized.

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## Revolution9

> AGREED - VERY SMART
> The CIA FBI undoubtedly have agents in the ron paul crowd also.... specifically to cause trouble.
> Be smart people, I personally know of a few, and one for sure is still making the rounds in the ron paul crowd and getting in even deeper.


This above is pertinent. COINTELPRO is alive and nasty. Certain Intel agencies were caught running nasty ops against us last time as well. At a local level in Ames, I recall a video of a supporter getting in a beef with a huge guy from the local goonsquad who told him to shut up or something and then he grabbed the sign from him and stomped it on the ground. Better to have locals deal with this from one point of view.

Rev9

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## speciallyblend

It is an event. I think people are really watching to many soap operas ,stop the freaking drama! This is not minority report. You guys are making stuff up to happen before it ever happens or even will happen. I think we have alot of drama queens. We should all just sit at home so nothing happens .Then that will make the drama queens happy!! I think it is a great idea to throw an event to motivate folks in iowa to go to vote in the straw poll.. oooo the freaking horror!! make it happen the nay-sayers can go watch reruns of all my children!!

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## acptulsa

> keep up the good work!!


Do take every precaution, guys, but don't stop the good work, please!

And the next time someone accuses you of using 'unproven tactics', ask them where the hell they think the word 'bandwagon' comes from!

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## speciallyblend

> Do take every precaution, guys, but don't stop the good work, please!
> 
> And the next time someone accuses you of using 'unproven tactics', ask them where the hell they think the word 'bandwagon' comes from!


i am sure everyone will do fine     I will be in colorado so i will not be able to be part of this but I would like us to throw an rpf meetup(Ronstock or whatever we decide to call it))  at paul and emily's farm in minnesota sometime in the spring of 2012 if they will have us all!!  Ron Paul 2012 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98T3PVaRrHU

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## DjLoTi

Yeah I would just like to remind some people not to discourage other people from doing things that seem 'different'. People are different, and when you're talking about electing a president, you're talking about electing someone to represent 300 million different Americans. This is a big nation and not everyone sits home and watches campaign tv ads. LoL, I should prob just take over in this whole area. I feel like I'm just way more experienced and know how to effectively push at these 'alternative' events

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## LibertyEagle

> Ronstock happened because 1 guy wanted it to happen. So it happened. All you naysayers, maybe you should check yourself. You might tell the 1 guy the wrong thing and lose your revolution


Ronstock happened after the campaign was over.  Or did you forget?

I would totally back another one of these, and during the campaign, just not in tandem with the Iowa Straw Poll.

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## DjLoTi

> Ronstock happened after the campaign was over.  Or did you forget?


I thought we were talking about the Ronstock that happened the Friday before the Iowa straw poll on Saturday.

It was the 2nd weekend my radio went live, so I definitely remember! =)

In fact, I even still have a pic flier for it =)

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## LibertyEagle

The one I remember was in conjunction with the Rally for the Republic.  Or, am I getting events mixed up?

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## DjLoTi

edit

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## acptulsa

> The one I remember was in conjunction with the Rally for the Republic.  Or, am I getting events mixed up?


That was the only one I know of being called 'Ronstock'.  I thought Kenny coined the phrase.  And it happened in conjunction with the Rally for the Republic, which ran parallel and simultaneously with the RNC--one town over.

You are absolutely correct, ma'am.




> [

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## DjLoTi

Oh wow that's awesome. We should totally throw something like that in NH. I totally know the ppl who could put it together. We could do it right before the voting, and we could get some *really* good music talent. I mean music festivals are totally my thing. That would be so awesome. I thought we were talking about the small one b4 the straw poll. lol I've never even heard of this.

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## acptulsa

Actually, there wasn't much music there.  Just a few guitars around the campfire.  Not that that wasn't awesome enough for an old camper like me, who couldn't have afforded to be there at all if I had to do a motel.  The music was at the Blaine event and at the Rally itself (click on the link for those pics).

You could easily do it one better.

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## Morerockin

I own the domains paulapalooza and ronpaulapalooza if anyone wants them.

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## speciallyblend

> Actually, there wasn't much music there.  Just a few guitars around the campfire.  Not that that wasn't awesome enough for an old camper like me, who couldn't have afforded to be there at all if I had to do a motel.  The music was at the Blaine event and at the Rally itself (click on the link for those pics).
> 
> You could easily do it one better.


that was the best campfire the marc scibilia band and adam kokesh good times!  Paul and Emily want to do something again so i was thinking maybe spring of 2012? but i am all for anyone throwing more ronstocks or whatever they wanna call them. I just know i will not have any extra money to spend on events until hopefully 2012.

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## speciallyblend

> Oh wow that's awesome. We should totally throw something like that in NH. I totally know the ppl who could put it together. We could do it right before the voting, and we could get some *really* good music talent. I mean music festivals are totally my thing. That would be so awesome. I thought we were talking about the small one b4 the straw poll. lol I've never even heard of this.


yeah i know you will do good, make it happen! i thought you knew we threw ronstock! I don't like to say i since it was me,laura, danke,casey,paul and emily,bryan and a long list of rpf members that came together

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## speciallyblend

> I own the domains paulapalooza and ronpaulapalooza if anyone wants them.


kewl

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## speciallyblend

> The one I remember was in conjunction with the Rally for the Republic.  Or, am I getting events mixed up?


no, i think there was another event somewhere called ronstock after we had done the one at the rally? but not sure but people who attended the rally for the republic ronstock are helping do some more, seeds were planted i guess?

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## DjLoTi

Just in case you guys were wondering, this is the music festival my friends are throwing:

http://www.thebigup.com/

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## speciallyblend

> Just in case you guys were wondering, this is the music festival my friends are throwing:
> 
> http://www.thebigup.com/


looks like good times!!!

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## parocks

Quality jam band show with a bunch of familiar names.




> Just in case you guys were wondering, this is the music festival my friends are throwing:
> 
> http://www.thebigup.com/

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## DeadheadForPaul

DJLoti hangs out with 'heads - confirmed.

Love me some Raq

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## parocks

DJLoti has said that he would like to work on music events.  He has an idea about a pre NH event.

I believe in the idea that the official campaign is going to focus on getting older Republicans, but that the official campaign does recognize that the 18-29 male indies
are an area that Ron Paul is strong, and that the grassroots might just be the way to maximize them.  I would hope that the official campaign is not going to be against music outreach.

A strong argument can be made that fans of jam bands might really really like Ron Paul.  With the states rights view on Marijuana.

I'm not a fan of big shows.  I just don't see the point.  Not against them.  But look at that list of bands right there.  How about getting 1 of those bands, and making it a Ron Paul Free Show.  And it's in NH somewhere.  And DJLoti's friend puts the word out to these bands that if they've got an open date the day before or after Boston, we'd want to do a Ron Paul Free Show. 




> DJLoti hangs out with 'heads - confirmed.
> 
> Love me some Raq

----------


## AlienLanes82

Just remember that a lot of Iowa voters see Woodstock as a pivotal event which signified "the end of America as we knew it", "the death of old-time moral values", and "the rise of freaks who disrespect our military and our country." 

Its hard for those of us who grew up with Woodstock, Bonnaroo, Coachella, and Burning Man as fun places to listen to music and camp, but that's how a lot of folks think about things.

----------


## parocks

I'm personally not arguing in favor of a large show or  anything "stock".   But music can reach people and it can reach people without impacting the older generation at all.




> Just remember that a lot of Iowa voters see Woodstock as a pivotal event which signified "the end of America as we knew it", "the death of old-time moral values", and "the rise of freaks who disrespect our military and our country." 
> 
> Its hard for those of us who grew up with Woodstock, Bonnaroo, Coachella, and Burning Man as fun places to listen to music and camp, but that's how a lot of folks think about things.

----------


## Thor

> yeah i know you will do good, make it happen! i thought you knew we threw ronstock! I don't like to say i since it was me,laura, danke,casey,paul and emily,bryan and a long list of rpf members that came together


Kenny don't forget me... You and I brainstormed the idea from nothing to happening...  Remember, I did the website, the email list, etc.  

It was a blast and if we did it again, it would be 3-4 times larger, no doubt...

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## Immortal Technique

ronstock is i thought an idea i was chucking around in chat one evening here, not sure if i was the only one to think of it but regardless it would be a fantastic way to celebrate Ron
Id Party at RonStock !

----------


## Isaac Bickerstaff

Yeah, we would love to host another event, but the problem is that there is not a major rally or convention to piggyback on. If Ronstock 2011 were to become a destination event, I'm afraid the farm might not be the best place for it. Although with Ron Paul mentioning raw milk in just about every interview, maybe a dairy farm would be the perfect place.

----------


## parocks

Did your strategy stop the supporter from yelling Ron Paul at the debate yesterday?




> You obviously have no experience dealing with the media, or even consuming media.
> 
> The media will write whatever fits their agenda most time, and they take great creative license with the truth. They can and will spin it their way, and you have little to no control over it.
> 
> If you think otherwise, then you are naive. 
> 
> You're playing with fire here, and you might get all of us burned. 
> 
> 
> How old are you?

----------


## parocks

We tried to come up with a plan to stop the obnoxious Ron Paul supporters.

You put a stop to it.

And, now, annoying Ron Paul Supporters from out of state were yelling Ron Paul at the debate yesterday.

That's On Your Head, not mine.




> Now, you know that will not work.  
> 
> It's on your head; not mine.

----------


## John of Des Moines

parocks what's the point of bring back to life a 3 week old thread?

----------


## parocks

> parocks what's the point of bring back to life a 3 week old thread?


The reason is because what was discussed here on this thread is directly relevant to what happened last night at the debate with the yelling supporter.

I, and others, were trying to anticipate problems - problems exactly like what happened last night - and were trying to develop strategies to stop it.

We should be getting smarter.  The people who are right should be listened to.  The people who are wrong should be pointed out.

The way to show that someone else was wrong is to go back and show what they did wrong.

On the other thread, we're talking about documenting bad behavior and pointing to it.

I'm doing the same thing right here.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> We tried to come up with a plan to stop the obnoxious Ron Paul supporters.
> 
> You put a stop to it.
> 
> And, now, annoying Ron Paul Supporters from out of state were yelling Ron Paul at the debate yesterday.
> 
> That's On Your Head, not mine.


One annoying out-of-state supporter yelled and refused to stop even when asked by several other supporters.  Your plan would have enticed many more out-of-state supporters, along with their out-of-state license plates, to go to Iowa and then to the Straw Poll.  While knowing full well that Iowans did not look fondly upon being swarmed by out-of-staters during this event.  

Then, you have the unmitigated gall to imply that I stopped your little plan.  You made it quite clear that you didn't give one damn what Dr. Paul's campaign thought or anyone else thought.  No, you _knew_ better than everyone.  The only reason you didn't have your event was because you couldn't get it off the ground.  So, get off your high horse.

I realize you meant well, but you couldn't have stopped that one selfish guy from doing what he did, anymore than the campaign could stop you from wanting to do what you planned.

----------


## cheapseats

Any FESTIVAL-Y insight(s) here?

----------

