# Lifestyles & Discussion > Privacy & Data Security >  Google announces privacy changes across products; users cant opt out

## Xelaetaks

Looks like Google is joining the police state. 


http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...c=al_comboNE_b


I think it's relevant to post here cause this seems to be so much what the freedom movement is against.  Not sure what this means about Google's tie with Government and if this will change how Ron Paul appears in google search but this really seems like google is gonna go down the drain with this.  It's too bad though, google used to be awesome.

----------


## JimInNY

Google wants to compete with myspace for the title of most fallen internet giant, eh?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Google wants to compete with myspace for the title of most fallen internet giant, eh?


Well doh, what happened to 'Don't be Evil'.

----------


## Xelaetaks

> Google wants to compete with myspace for the title of most fallen internet giant, eh?


Guess so.. Hard to see Google remain popular with openly collecting users information.

----------


## Bern

IMO, they've been doing this for a while now anyway.

----------


## stillhere

Don't like it? Don't use google. Private company.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Don't like it? Don't use google. Private company.


Fail.

This becomes a non sensical reply when they *all* start doing it.

Big business can tyrannize you as badly as government, period.

*Especially* when they are in bed with each other, like they are now.

There is name for that form of economic structure: facism.

----------


## Mini-Me

> Fail.
> 
> This becomes a non sensical reply when they *all* start doing it.
> 
> Big business can tyrannize you as badly as government, period.
> 
> *Especially* when they are in bed with each other, like they are now.
> 
> There is name for that form of economic structure: facism.


I use https://duckduckgo.com for searches.  Their privacy policy is pretty awesome.  I haven't really looked into good free email services though, and there's obviously no replacement for Youtube...

My biggest issue though is with cross-site scripting.  Most sites seem to use Google technology in one form or another, and it's extremely annoying.  NoScript only reminds me how often sites break without googleapis...at least googleanalytics is worthless, so I don't need to enable it.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Don't like it? Don't use google. Private company.


you do realize that google services like 80% of all web sites in some form right

----------


## Narmical

I just assumed that any website that used the same username/password combo shared data. Why would you assume any different? really don't like the sharing, pick a different provider, or better yet, make a google account for each service.




> Fail.
> 
> This becomes a non sensical reply when they *all* start doing it.
> 
> Big business can tyrannize you as badly as government, period.
> 
> *Especially* when they are in bed with each other, like they are now.
> 
> There is name for that form of economic structure: facism.


Big business can only tyrannize with the assistance of government. In a market free from government interference, its easy to find a product to meet your need.

Oh look, i just found a search engine that does not collect data https://startpage.com/

----------


## Bern

> Don't like it? Don't use google. Private company.


They can track people who are not signed up for google services.  Upwards of 90% of websites use Google Webmaster tools or Google AdSense.  Google is placing cookies on your computer and tracking your IP address whether you are signed up for a service or not.

----------


## Todd

Soon Google will just do this.

----------


## american.swan

1. If I so desire, I can encrypt email going across gmail's servers.
2. I use a desktop email program so I NEVER SEE Google's ads.
3. I don't log into youtube, because I don't personally upload anything.
4. I delete cookies and surfing data when I close my browser.
5. I can use OpenVPN to connect to sites.
6. I clear cookies also, so facebook doesn't track me everywhere.  I rarely log into facebook and promptly restart the browser after doing so.

Any questions?

----------


## TheViper

> They can track people who are not signed up for google services.  Upwards of 90% of websites use Google Webmaster tools or Google AdSense.  Google is placing cookies on your computer and tracking your IP address whether you are signed up for a service or not.


Actually, if you read the article, it only references instances of people that have Google product accounts.

In fact, all the quotes from the Google reps even refer to users with accounts.


EDIT:
This is definitely about account holders only as Google's method to opt out is to suggest you simply close accounts or don't log in.

----------


## sailingaway

I'll put it in general politics. It is part of the interest of this forum, I'm interested, for one, and will opt out of their products if I must.  But I like their search. It is the only one where you can sort by date, that I am aware of.

----------


## TheViper

I don't mind them sharing data across their own products.  As a web developer myself, it makes a lot of sense to tailor the experience to the individual as much as you can.

It's when you share that data with everyone else that it becomes a problem.

----------


## Ilhaguru

> Fail.
> 
> This becomes a non sensical reply when they *all* start doing it.
> 
> Big business can tyrannize you as badly as government, period.
> 
> *Especially* when they are in bed with each other, like they are now.
> 
> There is name for that form of economic structure: facism.


No, you fail.

A competitor to google will rise if they abuse their users. This is partly why google even took out yahoo.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> I use https://duckduckgo.com for searches.  Their privacy policy is pretty awesome.  I haven't really looked into good free email services though, and there's obviously no replacement for Youtube...
> 
> My biggest issue though is with cross-site scripting.  Most sites seem to use Google technology in one form or another, and it's extremely annoying.  NoScript only reminds me how often sites break without googleapis...at least googleanalytics is worthless, so I don't need to enable it.


THIS x 1000

Google has been tracking you for years and selling information just like Facebook and Myspace and every other website. I have NoScript, Ghostery, HTTPS Everywhere, and a few other add ons to Tor so I am pretty much off the grid.

----------


## dillo

google is a publically owned company, they can do what they want.  At their own demise

----------


## 123tim

> I just assumed that any website that used the same username/password combo shared data. Why would you assume any different? really don't like the sharing, pick a different provider, or better yet, make a google account for each service.
> 
> Big business can only tyrannize with the assistance of government. In a market free from government interference, its easy to find a product to meet your need.
> 
> Oh look, i just found a search engine that does not collect data https://startpage.com/


"Enhanced by Google"?



> Startpage offers you Web search results from Google in complete privacy! 
> 
> When you search with Startpage, we remove all identifying information from your query and submit it anonymously to Google ourselves. We get the results and return them to you in total privacy.
> 
> Your IP address is never recorded, your visit is not logged, and no tracking cookies are placed on your browser. When it comes to protecting your privacy, Startpage runs the tightest ship on the Internet. Our outstanding privacy policy and thoughtful engineering give you great search results in total anonymity. Here are some of our key features:
> Free proxy surfing available.
> Praised by privacy experts worldwide.
> Twelve-year company track record.
> Third-party certified.
> ...


I'll have to think about this....

----------


## V4Vendetta

www.duckduckgo.com

No records kept, not even IP address

----------


## Slist

> www.duckduckgo.com
> 
> No records kept, not even IP address


Scroogle.org too..

Honestly? I thought google was already cross-referencing all data.

Are there any good counter-measures to surf the web without sending google any data? Setting tor aside?
Or even better: is there a way to have your computer to surf the web automatically and randomly to completely confuse their data mining?

Has anyone some nifty tricks on how to protect my privacy while surfing the web?

----------


## brushfire

> Well doh, what happened to 'Don't be Evil'.


As someone else cleverly stated, "Dont be google"  

I'm all for a google proxy.  Dogpile.com would be a good example... fk google.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Do any of the alternative search engines have categories like "news", "images", "shopping", etc.?

----------


## sdsubball23

What do you all believe are the problems regarding this change for google? How is this harmful to any of us?

----------


## TheViper

> What do you all believe are the problems regarding this change for google? How is this harmful to any of us?


Knee jerk reactions.  Data getting shared (despite it just being between departments of the same company) just freaks people out.

----------


## onlyrp

> Google wants to compete with myspace for the title of most fallen internet giant, eh?


at worst they'll fail as an email and social network, they'll still be the giant for search engine.

----------


## TheViper

> at worst they'll fail as an email and social network, they'll still be the giant for search engine.


I seriously don't see how sharing data between departments will cause their email and social networking services to fail either.  The majority of people will never even know this is going on, the majority of those that do know won't care.

----------


## specialK

Most of my traffic comes from Google. The only way to give up Google, for me, is to sell my business and that solves nothing.

----------


## Wren

ixquick.com <- started using that one, had no problems with it so far. also disbanding my gmail account and opening a personal e-mail account. f**k google/youtube/facebook

----------


## stillhere

YOu can refuse to use people's websites who use google webmaster or ad sense. You have free enterprise. You don't have to use anything associated with google. Free choices.

----------


## The Free Hornet

> No, you fail.
> 
> A competitor to google will rise if they abuse their users. This is partly why google even took out yahoo.


No, you super fail!   [Edit:  You may be right -   - but it will be an uphill battle for legal reasons in addition to the market.  I don't trust that much influence in any one person's hand, corporate person or otherwise.]




> The United States currently has no mandatory data retention law. However, if providers of electronic communications or remote computing services to the public store electronic communications or communications records, the government may obtain access to the stored data under the Stored Communications Act (SCA), enacted as part of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act in 1986. The SCA also establishes mandatory data preservation, under which providers must preserve stored data for up to 180 days on government request.
> 
> Precisely how government officials may compel providers to grant access to such data depends on several variables, including the type of service the company is providing the user, the type of data, and in the case of stored communications content, the length of time the data has been in storage. The SCA also allows providers to voluntarily disclose such data to the government in emergencies where delay in disclosure involves danger of death or serious physical injury to a person. In general, compelled access to communications content requires a court order; by contrast, compelled access to data such as user/subscriber name, address, telephone number, and records of phone calls and communications requires an administrative subpoena, which is not issued by a court. 
> 
> https://www.eff.org/issues/mandatory-data-retention


Get this:




> Joseph P. Nacchio was the only head of a communications company to demand a court order, or approval under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, in order to turn over communications records to the U.S. government.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio


Practically, everybody is breaking the law all the time.  You can hardly scratch you butt without that being an obscensenity charge (and classified as a sexual predator for life).  So when one CEO earns the ire the government and is thrown in jail on unrelated stuff (whether valid or not), you better believe that sends a signal to the market.  The large communication companies are not so much private as they are in cahoots.

Violating our privacy works well for them.  We can be bombarded with marketing (private concerns) and monitored (public concerns).

----------


## DamianTV

> I use https://duckduckgo.com for searches.  Their privacy policy is pretty awesome.  I haven't really looked into good free email services though, and there's obviously no replacement for Youtube...
> 
> My biggest issue though is with cross-site scripting.  Most sites seem to use Google technology in one form or another, and it's extremely annoying.  NoScript only reminds me how often sites break without googleapis...at least googleanalytics is worthless, so I don't need to enable it.


I agree that AF's fail comment in and of itself are fail.  Supporting an alternate business is free market, but he does have some valid points, as do you.

The only real way to get rid of google is to prevent them from being able to effectively track and advertise to you.  That means some tech work has to be done on the users end.  NoScript doesnt help because they can still get a buttload of data from just having your computer talk to theirs.  Go look up Panopticlick on any search engine other than google.  Hell, even your installed fonts can uniquely identify you to their services.  The best way is to prevent your computer from talking to their systems period, by means of a firewall, traffic redirction, hosts file, etc.  Doing that is the first step.  The second is to run NoScript.  Oh, by the way, and since you are using Firefox, you know that everything you TYPE (not just browse to, you have to type) into your Firefox Location (Address) Bar gets sent back to Google?  Still feeling like they arent after you?  There are ways to disable that, but it requires the use of about**:config, which means that company does NOT want you knowing that it is an option.

---

In general, the Government is the one that has created this Privacy problem.  The Govt does absolutely nothing to protect your privacy.  They operate under the premise that you are Guilty until you prove yourself Innocent.  If they were to run around and ask you if you were an Atheist or a Jew, then immediately execute and murder you, people would quickly jump on the I Want Privacy bandwagon.  Instead, they collect all sorts of data, that they plan on using at a later time, then will begin the summary executions.  Due to the information being collected not being immediately obvious that it is a threat to their wellbeing, they develop the attitude that Privacy isnt being violated, and begin to feel comfortable sharing all sorts of information that they normally would not have.  They start bragging they are Atheists or Jews, or dont support their Govt, and develop a false sense of security.  When the hammer does come down, they know more about you than you know about yourself, and any part of that information can be incriminating, depending on the accusers perspective.  And that is all they need to take you out.

Just read my sig.  No not the part about the +Rep, the part about Privacy.

----------


## iGGz

[{}]

----------


## Lishy

I don't understand this controversy. If you google something in google's main search engine, it will appear in recommended videos on youtube? Is that all?

----------


## iGGz

[{}]

----------


## Lishy

I don't see what the big deal is. Don't google ads usually adjust to your searches?

Hrm.. So the only change is they change records of your overall behavior on google sites, rather than keeping them separate?

----------


## Yieu

> The only real way to get rid of google is to prevent them from being able to effectively track and advertise to you.  That means some tech work has to be done on the users end.  NoScript doesnt help because they can still get a buttload of data from just having your computer talk to theirs.  Go look up Panopticlick on any search engine other than google.  Hell, even your installed fonts can uniquely identify you to their services.  The best way is to prevent your computer from talking to their systems period, by means of a firewall, traffic redirction, hosts file, etc.  Doing that is the first step.  The second is to run NoScript.  Oh, by the way, and since you are using Firefox, you know that everything you TYPE (not just browse to, you have to type) into your Firefox Location (Address) Bar gets sent back to Google?  Still feeling like they arent after you?  There are ways to disable that, but it requires the use of about**:config, which means that company does NOT want you knowing that it is an option.


This is all good advice.  Use NoScript on FireFox, block URLs you absolutely never want your computer connecting to in the hosts file.  There are many other things that can be done, but these have the largest affect as far as blocking yourself from accessing servers you do not want to.

I've said it before, but nice signature quote there.  

To change your browser to not query Google if you type a URL incorrectly into the address bar:
Open a new tab, type about**:config, and press enter.
In the search bar at the top of the about**:config page, search for the term "keyword" without quotes.
To have the browser do nothing when a URL is typed incorrectly, change the "keyword.enabled" key to "disabled".
To have the browser open a secure search page instead of Google when a URL is typed incorrectly, change the "keyword.URL" key to one of the following:
https://ssl.scroogle.org
https://www.startpage.com
https://www.duckduckgo.com

To block google-analytics.com in the hosts file:
Navigate to C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc.
Right click on the hosts file | click Properties | uncheck "Read Only" if it is checked | press OK.
Open the hosts file using notepad.
Add the following text under where it says "127.0.0.1       localhost":
127.0.0.1	google-analytics.com
127.0.0.1	ssl.google-analytics.com
127.0.0.1	www.google-analytics.com
Save and close the file.
Right click on the hosts file | click Properties | check "Read Only" if it is not checked | press OK.
It is important to make sure the file is Read Only after you save and close it so that other programs cannot alter the hosts file.

To add NoScript as a FireFox add-on:
In FireFox, go to Tools | Add-ons.
Search for the add-on NoScript and click "Add to FireFox".
Other suggested add-ons are:
Adblock+: to block ads on websites, use the EasyList and EasyPrivacy filters.
HTTPS-Everywhere by EFF: to force a set list of websites to use SSL/HTTPS encryption, which encrypts the data sent between your browser and the webserver.
BetterPrivacy: to quickly delete Flash cookies.
CookieCuller: to help you keep the cookies you want to keep, and quickly delete the rest of the cookies.

----------


## Echoes

As usual, Big Govt and Big Bizness exempt eachother.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9223753/Google_says_privacy_change_won_t_affect_government  _users

----------


## MRoCkEd

Good to see Google using technology to find better ways to satisfy consumers.

----------


## iGGz

[{}]

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> IMO, they've been doing this for a while now anyway.


Years.

I use a firefox plugin that gives me a search window for http://scroogle.org

----------


## Yieu

> Years.
> 
> I use a firefox plugin that gives me a search window for http://scroogle.org


Could also use the search plugin for https://ssl.scroogle.org instead, that way it is also an encrypted search.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

lol @ all the people on a RON PAUL forum saying to deal with it.

----------


## devil21

Is Google trying to dumb everyone down even further?

Let's just take away any necessity for pesky things like critical thinking and the ability to operate a computer effectively, in private.  I envision the "tv" from Idiocracy coming soon.

eta:  Oh sure, it's a private corporation and we all have freedom of choice not to use their sites and therefore not participate.  I get that.  But there's an insidious element creeping into all this and since corps like Google can literally just buy up every website known to man (generally due to Google's Wall St decided value and all that comes with that) then is the internet really a free resource anymore?  Or is it just another element being subverted to continue the dumbing down of America?  I have a hard time finding the line between free market and subversive actions sometimes.

----------


## Mckarnin

IMO once we use their products we are opting into their rules. If you don't like them then stop using all google products. I don't like this but it's not the government censoring us, it's a private business using our information from all of their products to change how we experience them. I don't know about you guys but I play on the internet with the assumption that almost anything I do or post is capable of being seen by other people if they are determined to do so.

----------


## LibertasPraesidium

So all of you go to all of the trouble to block private information about yourselves to prevent one company that "could" share your information, from providing you with better searches in google, closer options to music and videos that you like, and services or products that you would be more inclined to shop for. And advertisers are paying big money to be posted to those profiles because the more of a chance you could buy the more they have to pay. As Mckarnin said, If you operate online as if everything you do, can be found, by someone or some organization that wants to.  The only thing I keep safe are certain thoughts I do not post online, certain things I don't like on facebook because I try to keep it as professional as possible, (even if you have to be friended to see most of my profile.  I don't mind the change and I might actually use google+ more because of the change.  

BTW google collected the entire internet for 10 years, its in a database being used to run tests on their web crawler technology for market innovation.  I wonder how much they sale access to it?  ever cache: a website, it should bring up an older copy. There are other awesome things like some traffic cams you can link to from google.  

Just because they can sale/share information does not mean they are.  However, if any proof is shown I will retract a few of these statements and rethink how open I am about using google products.

----------

