# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Communication if the grid goes down ?

## cbc58

The more and more I think about what is happening and how the govt. is positioning itself - the more I think there will be an "event" which will knock out the internet and local communications - with the govt. then taking it over to tell the masses what to do.  The stock market will collapse and only certain people will be able to get on it and they will clean our clocks.  Total govt. controlled media and Orwell-like reality.

What is in place for local communications if this happens?... other than ham radios?  anything?

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## TonySutton

It is wise to have a ham radio.  These allow alternative communication with other prepared people if the worst happens.

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## CaptUSA

I don't foresee an "event", but many, many little ones.  So many that you won't even notice they're happening.  It's easier for them that way.

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## cbc58

Obama has already signed an executive order allowing the govt. to take over all communications if deemed necessary...

Ham radios are certainly good - but very few have them.  I am thinking more "on the ground" type of thing where information other than govt. propaganda is relayed - almost like a daily newsletter of sorts.

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Not sure about the rest of you but if the grid ever goes down and you are in the Mid Atlantic and hear reports of rabble rousing than come on down for that is where ye shall fine me.

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## Luciconsort

> Not sure about the rest of you but if the grid ever goes down and you are in the Mid Atlantic and hear reports of rabble rousing than come on down for that is where ye shall fine me.


I'll be brewing beer and reloading rifle rounds in the basement lol

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## Confederate

Pigeons.

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## Chris from Upstate NY

I have a cb radio in my pickup.  Works like a charm.  Gets me the lowdown on all the speed traps, DWI checkpoints, and random inspection traps that keep the politicians well fed here in NY.  When $#@! hits the fan it will be my first option.  When the gas runs out and I can't charge my battery, I will resort to plan B... smoke signals.  The secret is to have really dank bud, this makes the thickest smoke.

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## Aeroneous

> smoke signals.  The secret is to have really dank bud, this makes the thickest smoke.


I hear that Federal Reserve Notes are great for smoke signals... at least they're better at making smoke than they are at holding their value.

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## Matt Collins

a modified ham radio is essentially the only way you can communicate over distance without the feds getting in.

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## FindLiberty

It's a reasonable concern - It all seems to be hanging by a thread. (no pun intended)
Ham/CB communication is fine, _"if allowed", (feds will always "get in")_
but if the whole power grid is down and out, good luck!
Sooner or later, we ALL will be so screwed without power / food, etc...
Got ammo?

*Suicide Hammer (Team America style.)*

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## oyarde

> Pigeons.


Remind me before I eat them all....

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## cheapseats

> It is wise to have a ham radio.  These allow alternative communication with other prepared people if the worst happens.



How many ham radios would it take to relay news from one coast to the other?

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## cheapseats

> Obama has already signed an executive order allowing the govt. to take over all communications if deemed necessary...
> 
> Ham radios are certainly good - but very few have them.  I am thinking more *"on the ground" type of thing* where information other than govt. propaganda is relayed - almost like a daily newsletter of sorts.



DRIVERS NEEDED.

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## ClydeCoulter

> DRIVERS NEEDED.


And horses.

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## Tinnuhana

An acquaintance of mine in NH was a friend of the late king of Jordan via ham radio, so the range is there. But if the radio is using a satellite to bounce signals off, couldn't the gov't shut those down? Maybe clandestine short wave?

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## roho76

> An acquaintance of mine in NH was a friend of the late king of Jordan via ham radio, so the range is there. But if the radio is using a satellite to bounce signals off, couldn't the gov't shut those down? Maybe clandestine short wave?


Can't you just bounce a signal of the satellite even if they turn it off or encrypt it? It's just an object floating in space. I'm sure if you can find it you can use it. I watched a youtube video a while back where a guy took open source software and two direct TV dishes and used them to transfer data by bouncing the signal off a tall tower that could be seen from both locations a couple of miles away.

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## mad cow

The radio waves don't bounce off of satellites,they bounce off of different layers of the ionosphere,Some better at night than day,winter than summer and different frequencies better off of different layers.

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## Danke



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## acptulsa

> An acquaintance of mine in NH was a friend of the late king of Jordan via ham radio, so the range is there. But if the radio is using a satellite to bounce signals off, couldn't the gov't shut those down? Maybe clandestine short wave?


Ham has the range.  And there's using a satellite relay, and there's bouncing a signal off of a satellite.  Like, for example, a ham signal can be bounced off of the moon.  This isn't using the moon (a satellite) as a relay station.  This is bouncing electromagnetic waves off of a solid surface.

They can't 'shut the moon down'.




> The radio waves don't bounce off of satellites,they bounce off of different layers of the ionosphere,Some better at night than day,winter than summer and different frequencies better off of different layers.


It isn't 'either or'.  Communications satellites are radio repeaters.  Maybe 'bounce off' isn't the right word, but to say that man-made satellites don't extend radio range is silly.  And while man-made satellites are too small to be useful for the purpose, a certain satellite called The Moon bounces radio signals very nicely, thank you.  I'm not saying you're wrong about the ionosphere.  You aren't.  I'm just trying to clarify.

Ham and other radio signals do have disadvantages.  They can be received by anyone, be they good guys or bad guys.  They can be jammed by a stronger radio.  Jamming one frequency doesn't make other frequencies useless, but some frequencies are handier than others.  For example, an FM signal does not in any way have the range of a 'ham' frequency signal.  There's a reason Navy submarines use very low frequencies--they carry through water.

At the end of the day, though, shutting down conventional means of communications is very much a last resort because the multinational corporations can't get along without them.  So, the emphasis seems to be less on shutting communications down than on making sure the powers that be can eavesdrop on them all at will.  That indicates to me that our best bet lies less in the hardware and more in innovative new methods of encryption.

Or even in old but proven methods of encryption.  Anyone speak Navajo?

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## Tod

Ham radio can't be jammed?  What if the government broadcasts propaganda over all the frequencies the people try to use?

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## FrancisMarion

If the grid goes down, the most important people you will need to talk to are those that are your neighbors.  So verbal.

but for the intent of the question:  I've always liked this scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg

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## acptulsa

> Ham radio can't be jammed?


Of course it can.  Who said otherwise?

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## Matt Collins

> How many ham radios would it take to relay news from one coast to the other?


If you know what you're doing and have the right equipment, just 1 radio.

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## Matt Collins

> Ham radio can't be jammed?  What if the government broadcasts propaganda over all the frequencies the people try to use?


It would be very very very difficult to do and thus highly improbable. Besides, if you have a modded radio that allows you to transmit outside of ham bands, then you could also likely get around it too.

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## acptulsa

> It would be very very very difficult to do and thus highly improbable.


Really?  You ever try to get a radio signal through on the same frequency as the local clear channel AM station?  Try it some time.  The government can create one hell of a lot of electromagnetic noise.  Bank on it.




> Besides, if you have a modded radio that allows you to transmit outside of ham bands, then you could also likely get around it too.


Sure, being flexible in your frequencies is a way to avoid jamming.  Of course, there are two issues involved there.  If your intended recipient (the person you're trying to communicate with) doesn't know where in the spectrum you're switching to, you wind up talking only to yourself.  And once you get outside the bandwidth known as ham radio, the signal's ability to cover great distances is greatly diminished.

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## VIDEODROME

Cans and String

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## Matt Collins

> Really?  You ever try to get a radio signal through on the same frequency as the local clear channel AM station?  Try it some time.  The government can create one hell of a lot of electromagnetic noise.  Bank on it.


Not spectrum-wide they can't.







> And once you get outside the bandwidth known as ham radio, the signal's ability to cover great distances is greatly diminished.


errr... not exactly.... see this - 

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/p...3-allochrt.pdf

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## acptulsa

> Not spectrum-wide they can't.


Matt, all you need to jam more frequencies in more places is more transmitters.  That's all.  Excuse me if I don't share your love for underestimating potential enemies.




> errr... not exactly.... see this - 
> 
> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/p...3-allochrt.pdf


Okay.  Now tell me what in God's name that has to do with which frequencies carry farther in which medium, or conform to the curvature of the earth better.  I dare you.

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## liberty2897

If data throughput is not an issue, you could do a number of things with a digital stream to improve a link and protect from interference and many other problems with wireless links.

Something along these lines

Ultra narrow band-width channel   
Receiver with excellent noise figure  (first LNA with very low noise figure and high gain)
Brick wall band pass filter after the IF
Simple QPSK modulation
A combination of block-code forward error correction wrapped around a convolutional correction code with a low coding rate
Frequency hopping with hundreds of channels hopping in a pseudo-random sequence just fast enough for a small, complete packet to fit in a single channel.
Maybe dynamic preamble and frame sync words based on the current channel and position in the hopping sequence  (protection from synchronized jamming)

I think a system like this would go a long way to protect simple low-rate messaging systems.

[edit]
If you decided not to abide by the regulations, there are even more things you could do...  obviously.

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## TheTexan

> Matt, all you need to jam more frequencies in more places is more transmitters.  That's all.


More transmitters, and more men to guard those transmitters.

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## UtahApocalypse

Google HSMM MESH. Its ham radio internet. We gave streamed full pbx voip systems, video, web server, email.... Etc.

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## liberty2897

> More transmitters, and more men to guard those transmitters.


All those transmitters would need a LOT of power too!  Probably have to have several coal plants everywhere to block everything...

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## jdcole

It depends on your communications needs.  Are you trying to communicate a block over?  The next county?  The other side of the world?

Ham radio is your best bet - with the right equipment and some learning on your part you can send text & data over ham.  Aside from ham, though, you do have some options for a more localized effort - FRS/GMRS radios, CB radio, and Marine radio are all options to look into.

Some good resources:
American Preppers Network Radio Net - The "communications arm" of the American Preppers Network.  Some good information, more prep-oriented than your regular Ham enthusiast site.

Amateur Radio Relay League - Founded in 1914, the American Radio Relay League is the national association for amateur radio in the USA. Today, with more than 158,000 members, ARRL is the largest organization of radio amateurs in the United States.  Lots of good technical information.

General information on Packet Radio (being able to pass digital data packets over analog radio): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio  Also has links to other packet technologies, like D-STAR.  BBS systems, e-mail, text chat, small file transfers, and more can be done over ham.  

For more localized communications, FRS/GMRS radios and CB radio is a safe bet.  CB is fine in the car or as a base station, and there are some fine handheld units.  Other than that, Garmin actually makes a GPS/2-way radio (FRS/GMRS), digital camera/NOAA weather alert radio combination, their Rino 655t.  The topo 100k maps are esily replaced with the (much better) topo 26k maps.  If you have multiple Garmin Rino's, you can see each other on your map, making keeping track of friends/family easy.  They have lower models, as well.  I work as a Satellite technician in Afghanistan right now, and we use the Garmin Rino 110's for the digital compass and exact LAT/LONG when putting up dishes.

If you're concerned about batteries, get the Midland XT511.  It combines a 2-way radio (FRS/GMRS), AM/FM radio, NOAA weather radio, flashlight, and USB charge port in a portable package.  Comes with rechargeable batteries, and can be recharged via built-in hand crank dynamo.  90 second of cranking provides roughly one hour of continuous-use power.

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## jdcole

Oh, and as for jamming radio communications?  The military has got you on that one - they have a fleet of jammers that have been used in OIF and OEF to effectively neuter radio-controlled IED's, and they are perfectly good at knocking out all legitimate comms as well.  It's a common problem over here in Afghanistan - the Army with leave their Dukes (a type of jammer) on when they drive into the FOB and knock out all comms not in it's exclude list -mostly military frequencies.  

Here's a system that the USMC uses: http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sit...CHAMELEON.html
Here's a great series of articles about IED's, and the Jammers the military is using against them.  Note the things they can jam (key fobs, cell phone, frs radio, etc.): http://www.barthworks.com/military/ied02.htm

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## Matt Collins

> Oh, and as for jamming radio communications?  The military has got you on that one - they have a fleet of jammers that have been used in OIF and OEF to effectively neuter radio-controlled IED's, and they are perfectly good at knocking out all legitimate comms as well.  It's a common problem over here in Afghanistan - the Army with leave their Dukes (a type of jammer) on when they drive into the FOB and knock out all comms not in it's exclude list -mostly military frequencies.  
> 
> Here's a system that the USMC uses: http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sit...CHAMELEON.html
> Here's a great series of articles about IED's, and the Jammers the military is using against them.  Note the things they can jam (key fobs, cell phone, frs radio, etc.): http://www.barthworks.com/military/ied02.htm


That's very localized and on a specific set of frequencies. They cannot jam the entire spectrum all at once in all places.

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## Matt Collins

> Matt, all you need to jam more frequencies in more places is more transmitters.


See my previous post.






> Okay.  Now tell me what in God's name that has to do with which frequencies carry farther in which medium, or conform to the curvature of the earth better.  I dare you.


Because some bands do that better than others given specific conditions.




> All those transmitters would need a LOT of  power too!  Probably have to have several coal plants everywhere to  block everything...


Exactly, it's not really feasible.

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## Matt Collins

> Google HSMM MESH. Its ham radio internet. We gave streamed full pbx voip systems, video, web server, email.... Etc.


What about this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRLP

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## jdcole

Matt - I can tell you from personal experience that if they want to drop the comms out in a 1km radius, they can.  And they can do it even further than that when they crank the power.  And yes, if they want to block out a spectrum (HF, VHF, UHF, etc.) they can.  All of it.  Goodbye HAM, cell phones, FRS/GMRS, Wifi/Wimax, CB, AM/FM.  Incredibly easy to do.

Like I said, I'm a satcom engineer here in Afghanistan - I also manage the data network (including around 30-35 wireless shots) and manage the VHF radios we use (mostly motorola GP360's) and yes, the Army can drop our comms easily.  The Marines at least remember to turn off their Dukes/Chameleons/THOR/etc. before they come back on the base.

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## Carson

Torch light?

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## Keith and stuff

In NH, a whole bunch of people have radios. The number keeps growing. A guy buys them wholesale from China and sells them for $40 cash. He even has the equipment to program them for you at no extra charge. They only reach a couple miles but you can ad on something that extends the range a little. I'd guess, in a few years, a lot more folks will have radios.

There is also pirate radio up here. Oh, and some people made sure the police scanner in several of the cities (including Keene and Manchester) are public. Plus other stuff I'd rather not say.

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## Matt Collins

> Like I said, I'm a satcom engineer here in Afghanistan -


Ok, cool. Glad to know that because now my respect for your opinions just went up...





> Matt - I can tell you from personal experience  that if they want to drop the comms out in a 1km radius, they can.  And  they can do it even further than that when they crank the power.


How far out?

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## Chris from Upstate NY

According to Animal Planet and Nat Geo, bigfoots use wood knocking, and the sound travels for miles on a calm night.

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## klamath

> Matt - I can tell you from personal experience that if they want to drop the comms out in a 1km radius, they can.  And they can do it even further than that when they crank the power.  And yes, if they want to block out a spectrum (HF, VHF, UHF, etc.) they can.  All of it.  Goodbye HAM, cell phones, FRS/GMRS, Wifi/Wimax, CB, AM/FM.  Incredibly easy to do.
> 
> Like I said, I'm a satcom engineer here in Afghanistan - I also manage the data network (including around 30-35 wireless shots) and manage the VHF radios we use (mostly motorola GP360's) and yes, the Army can drop our comms easily.  The Marines at least remember to turn off their Dukes/Chameleons/THOR/etc. before they come back on the base.


I deployed to Bosnia with one of the engineers that developed those IED jammers.

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## klamath

..

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## Keith and stuff

Some good info in this thread. BTW, there have been other threads on this forum about the same question.

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## jdcole

klamath - so you know exactly what I am talking about.

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## klamath

> If it was bad for me to post online. It was bad for you to copy. Now I cannot edit it but you can 
> 
> I don't actually have 1 of the radios myself.


Fixed

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## klamath

> klamath - so you know exactly what I am talking about.


Yep.

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## heavenlyboy34

> The more and more I think about what is happening and how the govt. is positioning itself - the more I think there will be an "event" which will knock out the internet and local communications - with the govt. then taking it over to tell the masses what to do.  The stock market will collapse and only certain people will be able to get on it and they will clean our clocks.  Total govt. controlled media and Orwell-like reality.
> 
> What is in place for local communications if this happens?... other than ham radios?  anything?


This is an opportunity for someone to invent a network of string-and-can communications.

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## TomtheTinker

Wanted to get a ham radio...but the whole fcc thing is throwing me off. I think im just goingto get a cb for now.

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## Tinnuhana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNhToGB9O7c
Better start learning, eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEALBg_Qtqs

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## oyarde

> According to Animal Planet and Nat Geo, bigfoots use wood knocking, and the sound travels for miles on a calm night.


Yes they do , and yes it does

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## bunklocoempire

> Wanted to get a ham radio...but the whole fcc thing is throwing me off. I think im just goingto get a cb for now.


I wasn't thrilled with the licensing aspect either.

I got my handy talkie and used it only for monitoring for six or so months before I even took the test/got licensed.

Being able to monitor other stations/operators gave me a pretty good idea of what the licensed hams in my community are thinking.  From my monitoring experience there are hams that I would network with and there are some that I would totally avoid (FCC rule nazis).

At this time in our county my ham radio also allows me to scan police/emergency frequencies on the go from my vehicle.

I monitor way more than I transmit.  Being licensed and 'legally' able to transmit gives me a sense of what my equipment can do and if it's operational.  Also, in _my_ area, a licensed operator is more likely to get a ton more help from others. <-- Learned that by monitoring.   Know your neighbors!

I can monitor CB frequencies with my handy talkie radio but can't transmit on those bands at this time -I'd have to mod my radio.  In my area there is a whole lot more to monitor on the ham bands/emergency bands than the CB band.

This is the handheld radio I went with after a crash course learnin' myself about 'em:
http://www.yaesu.com/indexvs.cfm?cmd...5&isArchived=0 
There are some cons to this particular model but overall I've been pretty satisfied with it.  It has a nice balance of a _lot_ of things for such a small package.  

If I had it to do over, I'd go with a cheaper handheld and spend the saved money on a 6 -160 meter portable HF transceiver & accessories.

License or no license, the equipment is there for all to purchase.

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## KingRobbStark

Gun fire is all the communication we need.

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## bolil

> Gun fire is all the communication we need.


Yet it is silence I will listen for,

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## cheapseats

> Gun fire is all the communication we need.



This is both false and reckless.

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## cheapseats

> Wanted to get a ham radio...but *the whole fcc thing is throwing me off*. I think im just goingto get a cb for now.






> I wasn't thrilled with the licensing aspect either.
> 
> I got my handy talkie and used it only for monitoring for six or so months before I even took the test/got licensed.
> 
> *License or no license*, the equipment is there for all to purchase.



Sooo, does communication equipment WORK the same with or without licensing/permission?

Bearing the publication of gun owner addresses in mind, can "Authorities" more easily bushwhack licensed/ALLOWED communication equipment?  Or does "unauthorized" transmission point a neon arrow at a readily findable Disobeyer?

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## cheapseats

> ...if they want to drop the comms out in a 1km radius, they can.  And they can do it even further than that when they crank the power.  And yes, if they want to block out a spectrum (HF, VHF, UHF, etc.) they can.  All of it.  Goodbye HAM, cell phones, FRS/GMRS, Wifi/Wimax, CB, AM/FM.  Incredibly easy to do.



Does that mean NOTHING works, not even walkie-talkies such as kids and skiers use?

Let's play PRETEND...exactly what you describe HAPPENS.  Does it become the "ground type of thing" mentioned elsewhere in this thread...or is the ground game foiled by generalized wreckage, and are people too busy keeping the roof/food thing together to be bothered with trying to say whassup to other people in the exact same predicament?

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## tangent4ronpaul

> This is the handheld radio I went with after a crash course learnin' myself about 'em:
> http://www.yaesu.com/indexvs.cfm?cmd...5&isArchived=0 
> There are some cons to this particular model but overall I've been pretty satisfied with it.  It has a nice balance of a _lot_ of things for such a small package.  
> 
> If I had it to do over, I'd go with a cheaper handheld and spend the saved money on a 6 -160 meter portable HF transceiver & accessories.
> 
> License or no license, the equipment is there for all to purchase.


What did that thing set you back?

This one looks pretty sweet, for a throw away.. ($42)

http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-...I1KTHFLOJP18QM

-t

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## bunklocoempire

> What did that thing set you back?
> 
> This one looks pretty sweet, for a throw away.. ($42)
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-...I1KTHFLOJP18QM
> 
> -t


Radio was around $370.00, accessories (extra batts, chargers, after market-antenna) set me back another $250.00 or so.  It's the accessories that 'get ya'.  lol

Those throw aways have their issues but for $42 -not bad.

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## TomtheTinker

^^^^ what sort of issues

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## FindLiberty

...then Klaatu signaled GORT with a borrowed flashlight.

GORT then caused the entire RonPaulForums website to go down for exactly 24 hours.

Forum members still failed to notice the irony of this thread, even after power and communications were restored.

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## ghengis86

> ...then Klaatu signaled GORT with a borrowed flashlight.
> 
> GORT then caused the entire RonPaulForums website to go down for exactly 24 hours.
> 
> Forum members still failed to notice the irony of this thread, even after power and communications were restored.


lulz...

not the forum going down, of course.

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## bunklocoempire

> ^^^^ what sort of issues


I understand that some of the Baofeng & the Wouxun radios (Chinese radios) have ease of programing and accessory issues.  Ain't so easy to program them and any after market accessories should be scrutinized.

That said, I've heard folks use the Wouxuns on our community repeaters and they sound pretty good.

I've found radios are a maze of of pros and cons.   Best to first determine your needs and how deep you think you might want to get into it.

I picked up my stuff from these guys:  http://www.universal-radio.com/index.html

They seem to be pretty upfront about the Chinese stuff.




> The Baofeng UV-5R... This radio requires purchase of the USB-02 programming cable and downloading of software prior to use. These radios are certified under FCC part 90 and operate differently from traditional amateur equipment. *FCC Part 90 radios do not operate natively in the VFO mode and are not as frequency agile and are best suited when frequencies are programmed into memory and operated in a channelized mode. Although they offer good value, they may not be suitable as a "first radio".*

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## bunklocoempire

> ...then Klaatu signaled GORT with a borrowed flashlight.
> 
> GORT then caused the entire RonPaulForums website to go down for exactly 24 hours.
> 
> Forum members still failed to notice the irony of this thread, even after power and communications were restored.


I was on 10 meters frantically calling: _ "Ron Paul Forums QSO, Ron Paul Forums QSO!"_

No one QSL'd me.  lol

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## cbc58

Thought of this thread as I tried to log into RP forums yesterday.  Don't have a HAM or CB so what was I to do if this was a real shutdown.  95% of people don't have off-grid radios or communications and this could be a real problem.

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## cheapseats

> ...
> Forum members still failed to notice the irony of this thread. . .


Not me.





> . . . Don't have . . . 95% of people don't have . . .
> 
> . . . this could be a real problem.


One tank of gas will only take you so far.





> I was on 10 meters frantically calling: _ "Ron Paul Forums QSO, Ron Paul Forums QSO!"_
> 
> No one QSL'd me.  lol


Good one.

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## ClydeCoulter

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but Tube radios with discreet components are best since they aren't affected by emf blasts, chips can be fried.

_edit: perhaps there is some sort of grounded or active shielding that can be done for chip'ed transmitters?_

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## jdcole

Clyde - if you possess foreknowledge of when the attack will occur, you could probably protect your electronics through some combination of grounding and the use of Faraday cages.

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## torchbearer

> Maybe someone already mentioned this, but Tube radios with discreet components are best since they aren't affected by emf blasts, chips can be fried.
> 
> _edit: perhaps there is some sort of grounded or active shielding that can be done for chip'ed transmitters?_


Faraday Cage.
keep a backup set off all electronics you need in it.

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## FindLiberty

Bring back the original Spark Gap Xmitter... Yea, a Digital Spark Gap!  Don't expect it to do more than simple text messaging though.  Jamming is impossible 'cause it does all the jamming anyone could want, on all/any frequency, unless it's tuned up very carefully!

The FCC will still try to hunt you down though... so, CB or Ham radio is the best option - just remember it's not private!

I can imagine an "_underground personal SONET_" that clandestinely rides on intercepted dark (un-used) optical fiber cables!

These guys might have some interesting tips (and traps!): http://www.2600.com/

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## FindLiberty

deleted duplicate post - (it hangs upon submit sometimes)

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## Matt Collins

> This is the handheld radio I went with after a crash course learnin' myself about 'em:
> http://www.yaesu.com/indexvs.cfm?cmd...5&isArchived=0 
> There are some cons to this particular model but overall I've been pretty satisfied with it.  It has a nice balance of a _lot_ of things for such a small package.  
> 
> If I had it to do over, I'd go with a cheaper handheld and spend the saved money on a 6 -160 meter portable HF transceiver & accessories.


You can get a Wauxon or Boefeng very very cheap (well under $100).

http://www.wouxun.us/category.php?category_id=52

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## Tod

What do you think of something like this?  Hand crank...

http://www.amazon.com/Midland-XT511-...ords=ham+radio

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## bunklocoempire

> What do you think of something like this?  Hand crank...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Midland-XT511-...ords=ham+radio


The reviews there seem pretty straightforward about what it is and how it does.

I'm after a far greater range myself but could also see a use for a short distance radio system, but maybe not that short.  Like the crank though.

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## RickyJ

If the government tries to shut down all communication with radio interference then there are other less efficient and slower ways to communicate. Programmed drones with exact details to reach a location with your message. Not ideal, but will work even with radio interference by the government.

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## sparebulb

> If the government tries to shut down all communication with radio interference then there are other less efficient and slower ways to communicate. Programmed drones with exact details to reach a location with your message. Not ideal, but will work even with radio interference by the government.


A totally EMP resistant and organic means of communication.

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## sparebulb

removed double post

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## ClydeCoulter

Communication devices can also be used to "attract" the enemy in useful cases.  Perhaps to see which way the wind blows.

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