# News & Current Events > Individual Rights Violations: Case Studies >  Breastfed, Homebirthed Babies Taken Away From Parents For Not Using Hospital

## donnay

*Breastfed, Homebirthed Babies Taken Away From Parents For Not Using Hospital*



UPDATE 12/1/2014

Constitutional Attorney Stephen Pidgeon has agreed to represent the Rengo Family in an attempt to reunite babies Levi, Morna, and Daniel with their parents. He will accompany the family to the hearing tomorrow, and the public and the media are encouraged to show up at the:

    Whatcom County Courthouse
    311 Grand Avenue
    Bellingham Washington
    Tuesday December 2nd – @ 9:00 A.M.

More details to follow. A Facebook Page has also been setup for the family.

by Terri LaPoint
Health Impact News

All three of their babies have been taken away from them and placed in the care of strangers. Levi was 10 months old when his mother, local singer and songwriter Erica May Rengo, gave birth to his twin brother and sister, at their home in Bellingham, Washington.

“Our birth was glorious,” she said, and the twins were reportedly healthy, full-term babies, who had no problem quickly figuring out how to breastfeed. The little family was overjoyed until CPS stepped in to “help.”

It is another medical kidnapping according to the parents. The Rengos have chosen a wholesome, holistic lifestyle, based in their Christian faith. But CPS has stepped in to override the parents’ decisions. Now Erica and Cleave are living what they call a nightmare, separated from their children for reasons that don’t make any sense at all to them.

*Decision to Home Birth*

It was only natural for Erica to choose normal, family-centered birth. Erica herself was born at home, and says that her mother was a homebirth educator and La Leche League leader (a world-wide support and education group for breastfeeding mothers). She and Cleave chose a birth-center birth with their first baby, but decided to birth at home the second time. She knew that her body was perfectly designed to work for birth. She believed this was the direction God was showing them for the birth. Erica was very careful during her pregnancy to watch her diet and exercise, in preparation for the birth. She read, researched, and prepared.

She describes her homebirth as “exquisite” and “empowering.” Morna Kai Grace and Daniel Clemente were born into their parents’ loving arms.

The birth was perfect. There were no complications with the birth or afterwards. But Erica and her husband Cleave agreed to allow the local paramedics in when someone called them, in an effort to appease concerned family members who were fearful of their decision to birth at home. That is where their problems began.

*The Medical System Gets Involved*

Sometime after the babies arrived on October 2, paramedics arrived to find the twins nursing and everybody doing fine. The twins each weighed over 5 lbs, and the paramedics allegedly verified that everyone appeared healthy. The paramedics allegedly recommended that they go to the hospital for evaluation, which is standard procedure for EMTs.

The Rengos say they declined, telling them they didn’t want to expose their newborns to the dirty environment of the hospital. They were planning to follow recommendations they had found, which stated that newborn twins should stay home for the first six weeks of life, to give their immune systems the opportunity to build up.

*CPS Shows Up*

The parents’ believe that because they chose not to go to the hospital at that time, somebody called CPS. A couple of social workers showed up the next day, and wanted to see all of the children. CPS told Erica that they were “here to help.” But Erica says that is not at all what happened.

When the social worker found some eczema on Levi’s skin Erica told her that she was treating it with some herbal remedies, including comfrey and calendula, as well as applying coconut oil and giving probiotics. She was also doing an elimination diet to try to locate what could be causing the skin condition. Even though it was in the healing process, the social worker became critical that Erica wasn’t treating his eczema with steroids, a treatment option that Erica wanted to save as a last resort because of the side effects. The CPS agent would later testify to the judge that Erica had neglected to treat him completely.

Even so, the eczema was the only thing wrong. Erica says, “right away they found out that the children were not in danger.” The twins were completely healthy; the house was clean; and there are no drugs or alcohol involved.

The Rengos agreed to take the children to a pediatrician, who said the babies were doing fine.  The only concern was that the twins were slow to gain weight. At the time, Erica was trying to maintain a supply for three breastfeeding babies. She says she followed the pediatrician’s advice to supplement with formula, and the babies promptly got back on track with weight gain.

This was allegedly verified by a nurse sent out by CPS to check on them.

Erica May and Cleave are holistic in their approach to life and health, preferring natural alternatives, like herbs and diet changes, to medicinal treatments. Those things appear to be options only if CPS is not involved.

*CPS Takes Custody of Children*

On November 6, CPS showed up at the front door while Erica was softly singing and playing her guitar to her resting babies. When she checked the door, they told her that they were there to take her children, citing neglect for not giving Levi steroids for his eczema, and the home-birth without medical prenatal care with the twins, as well as the allegations of abuse, accusations which Erica had already assured them were completely unfounded. She also had prenatal care, just not with a doctor.

With one baby on her back, the frightened mother fled out the back door with her children to a neighbor’s house, but police and CPS “hunted her down,” and took these breastfed babies from their mothers’ arms. The twins were 5 weeks old.

Erica broke down into sobs as I spoke with her. “My children were safe and healthy with me.” Since they have been taken by CPS, Levi has reportedly had pneumonia, and has reportedly been diagnosed with “behavioral problems” because he screams and cries all the time.

He is screaming, Erica says, because he wants his mom and dad.
Why Are Children with No History of Abuse Being Taken Away from Loving Parents for Medical Reasons?

Children who have allegedly not been abused in any way have been taken by CPS from loving parents for reasons so flimsy that it has left the Rengos and their friends stunned. Several of their friends write that Erica is “a great mama.”

“This is not the right thing to do to mothers and children,” Erica emphasizes. “If they thought we needed help, they should have brought help in, not taken the children out. They have suffered and I have suffered since our separation.”

Erica feels that she and her children are being abused by the system. When they separate babies from their loving mothers, she says “they are dehumanizing people. The outcome of that is so much worse than any kind of dispute for medical reasons.”

Cleave and Erica were supposed to have their visitation with their children on Monday, but there wasn’t a social worker available to supervise the visit. Levi’s first birthday is on Black Friday. The day will be black for Erica and Cleave, but for very different reasons than the holiday retailers. They will miss their first child’s first birthday because CPS won’t have any workers available to supervise a visit that day either.

*The Stressful Separation of Infants from Parents*

Erica is a brokenhearted postpartum mother who wants nothing more than to be at home with all of her children by her side. Research shows that infants do not comprehend separation from their mother; they feel abandoned when they aren’t with her. Has it really come to the point where CPS can justify the emotional trauma to the children simply because parents don’t choose to follow every recommendation of the medical associations?

In President Obama’s immigration speech last week, he asked, “Are we a nation that accepts the cruelty of ripping children from their parents’ arms? Or are we a nation that values families, and works to keep them together?”

Yet it is this very nation whose Child Protection Service agencies have ripped tiny babies from their parents’ arms simply for the crime of disagreeing with a medical decision. If this could happen to a family who has only sought the most natural of care, then whose children are safe from CPS? Should this type of apparent medical tyranny be tolerated?

Erica May and Cleave Rengo face a court date on December 2. They don’t know what they will face then. Supporters are hoping that their story will be shared far and wide, and their children can be returned home quickly.

The Governor of Washington is Jay Inslee. His office number is 360-902-4111. You can email him from here.

The parents next court date is December 2, 2014 at 4:00 p.m. at the Whatcom County Courthouse, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham Washington.

http://medicalkidnap.com/2014/11/25/....75IqVFWv.dpuf

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## Anti Federalist

SWLODs...that's what is called for here.

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## Indy Vidual

Not good enough, why not also send in police to kill the free-thinking parents?

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## Lucille

!!!  That poor family.

I just can't with this evil $#@! any more...it just makes me want to break down and cry.

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## donnay

> !!!  That poor family.
> 
> I just can't with this evil $#@! any more...it just makes me want to break down and cry.


You and me, both.  Disgusting.  People need to get in-touch with the governor on this.  They have absolutely no business intervening! NONE!

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## Lucille

I shudder to think what the medical authorities are going to do to that inconsolable newborn, not to mention the foster "parents."




> Erica broke down into sobs as I spoke with her. “My children were safe and healthy with me.” Since they have been taken by CPS, Levi has reportedly had pneumonia, and has reportedly been diagnosed with “behavioral problems” because he screams and cries all the time.
> [...]
> Erica feels that she and her children are being abused by the system. When they separate babies from their loving mothers, she says “they are dehumanizing people. The outcome of that is so much worse than any kind of dispute for medical reasons.”
> 
> Cleave and Erica were supposed to have their visitation with their children on Monday, but there wasn’t a social worker available to supervise the visit. Levi’s first birthday is on Black Friday. The day will be black for Erica and Cleave, but for very different reasons than the holiday retailers. They will miss their first child’s first birthday because CPS won’t have any workers available to supervise a visit that day either.
> [...]
> Erica is a brokenhearted postpartum mother who wants nothing more than to be at home with all of her children by her side. Research shows that infants do not comprehend separation from their mother; they feel abandoned when they aren’t with her.


God!  Those poor poor babies...

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## William Tell

Disgusting abuse of power.

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## mosquitobite

Someone recently suggested we take a cause and use our power to highlight it.  
If this isn't that cause, what is?

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## donnay

The Governor of Washington is Jay Inslee. His office number is 360-902-4111.

http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/default.asp

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## Suzanimal

This is all kinds of messed up, I don't even know where to begin. SMDH.

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## Origanalist

Good Lord, this is right up the highway from me.

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## Origanalist

> Someone recently suggested we take a cause and use our power to highlight it.  
> If this isn't that cause, what is?


I'm open to any suggestions at all.

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## donnay

I just wrote the governor.




> Dear Governor Inslee,
> 
> Upon reading this story (Breastfed, Homebirthed Babies Taken Away From Parents For Not Using Hospital  http://medicalkidnap.com/2014/11/25/....SUCGPWR5.dpuf) I am outraged.  
> 
> Who gives the state the authority to intervene in a family's choice to have a home birth?  This is disgraceful and should never be allowed, they have done nothing wrong and if they did, that is what we have court rooms for.
> 
> Sincerely,
> XXXXX XXXXX

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## Origanalist

I can be at the courthouse when they have their hearing, I don't suppose it will be open to the public.

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## Dr.3D

I was born in the bedroom of the first house I ever lived in, but of course that was when physicians made house calls and delivered babies.     

How times have changed.

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## mosquitobite

> I'm open to any suggestions at all.


Are there any local blogs or message boards?

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## mosquitobite

> I can be at the courthouse when they have their hearing, I don't suppose it will be open to the public.


Wish I was close!  I'd join you - even if we had to stand outside with signs.

"Legalized Kidnapping"
"The Government Owns Your Children"
"Speak Up For Those Who Can't Speak!"
"Government Knows Best?"

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## Origanalist

> Are there any local blogs or message boards?


I don't know, I don't use any. I'm going to try to get this to the local news outlets. I don't have much faith that Inslee will do $#@! unless there is a huge outcry.

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## donnay

> I don't know, I don't use any. I'm going to try to get this to the local news outlets. I don't have much faith that Inslee will do $#@! unless there is a huge outcry.



We should load up his email box.  Pressure!

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## willwash

This is disgusting.  $#@! these people (CPS).

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## Origanalist

> We should load up his email box.  Pressure!


I've contacted three tv stations and the Seattle Times, whether or not they run the story is hard to say. It IS the MSM.

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## willwash

> I've contacted three tv stations and the Seattle Times, whether or not they run the story is hard to say. It IS the MSM.


Has Alex Jones picked this up?  I know he hates CPS as much as anyone here.

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## Origanalist

> Has Alex Jones picked this up?  I know he hates CPS as much as anyone here.


Just sent them an email, good idea.

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## donnay

> Has Alex Jones picked this up?  I know he hates CPS as much as anyone here.


I am on it.

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## mosquitobite

Share share share as well: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Reuni...25?sk=timeline

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## willwash

Posted the link to AJ's Facebook page and implored him to cover on his show tomorrow.  Saw that someone called "Fred Flintstone" has done the same.

EDIT:  also shared on my own FB

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## mosquitobite

Do we have any liberty minded legislators out there?  Either state or federal?

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## willwash

Mods please post to Grassroots Central Updates/ Top News!

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## Anti Federalist

> But Erica and her husband Cleave agreed to allow the local paramedics in when someone called them, in an effort to appease concerned family members who were fearful of their decision to birth at home. That is where their problems began.


Butt-in-ski neighbors and family will burn you down every time.

*Mind your own $#@!ing business.*

I'd sue them blind, whoever they are.

This goes right here:




> The majority of Gestapo informers were not full-term informers working undercover, but were rather ordinary citizens who chose to denounce other people to the Gestapo
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo

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## Anti Federalist

That said, SWLOD by the millions!

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## Origanalist

> Do we have any liberty minded legislators out there?  Either state or federal?


Not much to work with out here, but I will get on the the applicable ones and post their info here.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/senate/senator.../ericksen.aspx

http://www.leg.wa.gov/house/represen...verstreet.aspx

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## willwash

> Butt-in-ski neighbors and family will burn you down every time.
> 
> *Mind your own $#@!ing business.*
> 
> I'd sue them blind, whoever they are.
> 
> This goes right here:

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## mosquitobite



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## mosquitobite

> Not much to work with out here, but I will get on the the applicable ones and post their info here.
> 
> http://www.leg.wa.gov/senate/senator.../ericksen.aspx
> 
> http://www.leg.wa.gov/house/represen...verstreet.aspx


Looks like one is using his facebook page to help already! 
https://www.facebook.com/jason.overstreet.77?fref=ts

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## William Tell

> Do we have any liberty minded legislators out there?  Either state or federal?


Yes, a few who have been vetted are listed here and here:
http://www.candidates4liberty.com/st...andidates.html

http://www.candidates4liberty.com/st...travelers.html

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## Origanalist

> Looks like one is using his facebook page to help already! 
> https://www.facebook.com/jason.overstreet.77?fref=ts





> Profile Unavailable
> Sorry, this profile is not available at the moment. Please try again shortly.


 //

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## mosquitobite



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## Origanalist

> 


Sweet.

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## mosquitobite

> Sweet.


Agree!  Be sure to find him tomorrow and introduce yourself. He has some Ron Paul stuff on his page too!

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## Origanalist

> Agree!  Be sure to find him tomorrow and introduce yourself. He has some Ron Paul stuff on his page too!


Did he say he was going to be there? Damn! I feel like hacking one of the kids facebook accounts so I can see his.

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## mosquitobite

> Did he say he was going to be there? Damn! I feel like hacking one of the kids facebook accounts so I can see his.


Actually reading through the comments it doesn't say he's going to be there.  I will ask though!

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## Origanalist

I signed back into facebook...ugh. There's a rally tomorrow at 9:00 AM.

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## euphemia

Maybe some if you are too young to recall Hilliary Clinton's health care plan.  It called for more midwives so most women *could* (read:  be forced to) give birth at home.  

How times have changed.

(grandmother to four children born naturally)

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## Anti Federalist

Is there a Non Fedbook donation page?

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## Origanalist

> Is there a Non Fedbook donation page?





> Donations are being accepted through PayPal to Stephen Pidgeon: use code RENGO


Rand Foreman Stephen Pidgeon is a an ally of Alliance Defense Fund ( http://www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org/ ). 
http://stephenpidgeon.com/

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## mosquitobite

Bump.

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## mosquitobite

Did anyone go?

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## tommyrp12

I hope everyone watches this to get an idea of how CPS works. 

CPS Corruption? Attorneys, Professors, and Judges Speak Out!

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## jllundqu

How did the rally/hearing go?? Any updates??

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## William Tell

> Did anyone go?


Origanalist is going.

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## heavenlyboy34

Praying for the parents and children.  Wish there was more I could do.

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## DevilsAdvocate

So the way the process works is that they take your kids on accusation. And then you have to fight through the court system to get your kids back?

It should be the other way around. If they want to take your kids, they need to take you to court first.

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## DevilsAdvocate

Also, why are laws designed for the inner city being inflicted on clean cut suburban white folks that probably wear pocket protectors and go to church every weekend? It's insane

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## phill4paul

> So the way the process works is that they take your kids on accusation. And then you have to fight through the court system to get your kids back?
> 
> It should be the other way around. If they want to take your kids, they need to take you to court first.


  Same with your car, your home, your cash and your entire bank account.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Also, why are laws designed for the inner city being inflicted on clean cut suburban white folks that probably wear pocket protectors and go to church every weekend? It's insane


The poor folks and minorities are lab rats (they're also cannon fodder, but that's for another thread).  TPTB honed welfarism on them, and now they're making it "work" for whitey/middle class-types. (food stamp EBT cards, easy access to disability, etc, etc)

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## Deborah K

> That said, SWLOD by the millions!


What is that?

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## phill4paul

> What is that?


  Strongly Worded Letters Of Disapproval. We've found through internal polling that this is how we change things in a lawful, constructive and meaningful way.

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## Deborah K

> Strongly Worded Letters Of Disapproval. We've found through internal polling that this is how we change things in a lawful, constructive and meaningful way.


Thanks.

This is just awful.    Need to think about what to do...

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## presence

HOLY $#@!


My son was born in a mobile home.  I caught him and cut the cord.  Momma breast fed.

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## DevilsAdvocate

> Thanks.
> 
> This is just awful.    Need to think about what to do...


In better days the men in the neighborhood would get enraged, go down to wherever this child was being kept, and take it by force, shooting at anyone who stood in their way. If the state cracked down on them with armed troops, they would fight, because as a community they are a family, and this child could easily have been their own child. They would be proud to hang their lives on a noble cause, and doubtlessly people all over the country would have rallied to their defense. Laws would change, and the government would once again be reminded of it's place as the servant of the people.

Back in those days, the government literally couldn't enforce certain regulations, not because they lacked the authority, but because they physically couldn't without a revolt. This is the fire that burned within the people in the Revolutionary War, call it righteousness, justice, heroism.

These days we send Strongly Worded Letters and beg and plead for our masters to loosen our chains a bit.

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## Lucille

I keep looking for any news on the hearing.  

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pol...xmBY4gCZWrA.99




> As we receive information on the Rengo’s situation we will keep this story updated.
> 
> CPS can be an unscrupulous group of people and knowing how to deal with them can determine whether or not they take your children. Below is a list compiled by a Texas CPS Attorney, Chris Branson, of 10 Things you Must Do if CPS Knocks at Your Door:
> *
> 1) TAKE THE ACCUSATION SERIOUSLY.*
> 
> Parents are routinely accused of ridiculous things: trying to sell their children to relatives for drug money; molesting a child in the living room during a family party;  beating a child with a baseball bat – without leaving bruises. Yes, those were real calls to CPS – all taken as true by investigators. I don’ t care how absurd or unbelievable the caseworker sounds. Understand that SHE is serious, and likely presumes – no, likely “KNOWS” that you are guilty as accused. Even if she doesn’ t flat out say that she’ s there to take the children, she is quite possibly intent on doing just that. In testimony to Congress, Chris Klicka, senior counsel for the Home School Legal Defense Association, stated that a case worker with 30 years’ experience once confided in him that “When I started working, we tried to prove the family was innocent. Now we assume they are guilty until they prove they are not.”
> *
> 2) ASK WHAT THE CHARGES ARE.*
> ...


I also saw that Snopes is on the case defending the evil kidnappers, of course.

hxxp://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cpshomebirth.asp

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## mosquitobite

> So the way the process works is that they take your kids on accusation. And then you have to fight through the court system to get your kids back?
> 
> It should be the other way around. If they want to take your kids, they need to take you to court first.


My family has always argued that it is cruel and unusual punishment and without due process.
It's COMPLETELY unconstitutional.

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## mosquitobite

From Jason Overstreet's page:



> UPDATE: The Rengo Family placement hearing was moved up this morning to 10 a.m. from the scheduled 4 p.m. hearing. I will withhold comment on that move. Security was heavy. The courtroom was packed. The allotted timeframe was 1 hour with an expected decision on placement either with the parents or a semi-permanent out of family placement. If your a poker player, this will be your "tell." The State Attorney General's Office stood in place of the County legal team in the prosecution of this hearing. A rare move indeed. Attorney General Ferguson, the same AG who is persecuting Christian business owners for refusing to participate in weddings that conflict with their closely held religious beliefs, sent his legal team to take over in an attempt to spare the State embarrassment. The Attorney General's Office took the entire hour, discussing police reports where no arrests were made, save one, prior to the birth of the children. No mention of the babies' health and welfare was even attempted by the State. The court commissioner was frustrated at the State's extended attempt to muddy the water, even commenting on the rare nature of such extended testimony on a case that should be cut and dried after a forcible taking of children from their parents. The hearing was extended to tomorrow at 2:30 on the 4th floor of the Whatcom County Courthouse, where he demanded that the State rap up and allow the family's legal team to present it's case. Constitutional Attorney Steven Pidgeon petitioned the court for a writ of habeus corpus, asking that the charges be laid or the children be released to the parents. The writ of habeus corpus, a fundamental tool of liberty guaranteed by both our State and Federal Constitutions, was ignored by the court, the clerk stating that they hadn't even seen one in 20 years, with one judge refusing to even look at the writ.
> There is much talk of "more to the story." There certainly is. There always is. If you are tempted to make that statement, ask yourself where your information is coming from and what the validity of that information actually is. This is not a comfortable conversation, it's true. I shudder the horror of your family, or mine, under a microscope of the bureaucracy that is CPS.

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## phill4paul

> Constitutional Attorney Steven Pidgeon petitioned the court for a writ of habeus corpus, asking that the charges be laid or the children be released to the parents. The writ of habeus corpus, a fundamental tool of liberty guaranteed by both our State and Federal Constitutions, was ignored by the court, the clerk stating that they hadn't even seen one in 20 years, with one judge refusing to even look at the writ


.

  Wow.

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## Lucille

TY so much, mosquitobite.  What wickedness is the evil state up to with this poor family...

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## mosquitobite

> In better days the men in the neighborhood would get enraged, go down to wherever this child was being kept, and take it by force, shooting at anyone who stood in their way. If the state cracked down on them with armed troops, they would fight, because as a community they are a family, and this child could easily have been their own child. They would be proud to hang their lives on a noble cause, and doubtlessly people all over the country would have rallied to their defense. Laws would change, and the government would once again be reminded of it's place as the servant of the people.
> 
> Back in those days, the government literally couldn't enforce certain regulations, not because they lacked the authority, but because they physically couldn't without a revolt. This is the fire that burned within the people in the Revolutionary War, call it righteousness, justice, heroism.
> 
> These days we send Strongly Worded Letters and beg and plead for our masters to loosen our chains a bit.


http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html



> Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures'. . . must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. . . .Each act. . . is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow.

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## Origanalist

Ok, sorry but this is copy and paste from not just me.




> I never saw Overstreet, and there was literally no rally I saw. He was probably in the courtroom though, I don't know, I just got back. it's an hour and a half from my home.
> 
> Ok, here's the short version. I overslept because my back was having spasms and kept me up last night, I got there about 9:45. Nobody, nothing. I waited for a while then went to the library around the corner and got on their computer looking for news and couldn't find anything. 
> 
> So I went back over to the courthouse and taped my crappy little handmade sign on the guardrail across the street on the north side and waited, and waited.....
> 
> About an hour later a woman in her sixties shows up obviously looking for the same thing I am. But nobody else except a woman who went by twice giving me dirty looks who turned out to be from King 5 news. i spent most of my time there trying not to look like I was panhandling. 
> 
> So anyway, the woman in her sixties told me the court time was 1:00 not 2:00. I had already decided I didn't take the day off and drive almost to the border to turn around and go home. So about 12:30 or so she comes out of the courthouse and lo and behold the young man, his wife and father were with her. I must take a break here before I go into a lot of detail, but I ended up at their apartment for a couple hours with them and the reporter.





> From Jason Overstreet's page:
> 
> UPDATE: The Rengo Family placement hearing was moved up this morning to 10 a.m. from the scheduled 4 p.m. hearing. I will withhold comment on that move. Security was heavy. The courtroom was packed. The allotted timeframe was 1 hour with an expected decision on placement either with the parents or a semi-permanent out of family placement. If your a poker player, this will be your "tell." The State Attorney General's Office stood in place of the County legal team in the prosecution of this hearing. A rare move indeed. Attorney General Ferguson, the same AG who is persecuting Christian business owners for refusing to participate in weddings that conflict with their closely held religious beliefs, sent his legal team to take over in an attempt to spare the State embarrassment. The Attorney General's Office took the entire hour, discussing police reports where no arrests were made, save one, prior to the birth of the children. No mention of the babies' health and welfare was even attempted by the State. The court commissioner was frustrated at the State's extended attempt to muddy the water, even commenting on the rare nature of such extended testimony on a case that should be cut and dried after a forcible taking of children from their parents. The hearing was extended to tomorrow at 2:30 on the 4th floor of the Whatcom County Courthouse, where he demanded that the State rap up and allow the family's legal team to present it's case. Constitutional Attorney Steven Pidgeon petitioned the court for a writ of habeus corpus, asking that the charges be laid or the children be released to the parents. The writ of habeus corpus, a fundamental tool of liberty guaranteed by both our State and Federal Constitutions, was ignored by the court, the clerk stating that they hadn't even seen one in 20 years, with one judge refusing to even look at the writ.
> There is much talk of "more to the story." There certainly is. There always is. If you are tempted to make that statement, ask yourself where your information is coming from and what the validity of that information actually is. This is not a comfortable conversation, it's true. I shudder the horror of your family, or mine, under a microscope of the bureaucracy that is CPS.





> Ok, let me relay what I learned about this couple. They are not anywhere near as jaded as I (yet) and in true Christian form are praying for the CPS workers and the people who now have their kids. Their kids were taken from them on the sixth of this month. They got married the day they met, without state sanction, only Gods. She gave birth to their latest, the twins, at home, with no "certified" medical people there. Her mother was (is) some kind of a home birthing expert and she is quite knowledgeable. 
> 
> They are generous and gracious to a T. They live in a small, clean apartment with (his?) father. They are obviously not wealthy. They also apparently didn't know twins were coming because they did not have an ultrasound performed, nonetheless the children were born quite healthy. They strongly believe in natural living, remedies and food as opposed to what the medical "profession" insisted they follow, and have a pretty impressive amount of knowledge about it.
> 
> The problems started when they insisted that they maintain control of their children's nourishment and care. The powers that be couldn't tolerate that and this is the result. I came to tears more than once during their interview which I stayed out of because I hoped that it would reach the airways. It was only myself, the couple and the father there. (and the reporter obviously)





> Do you know if it was the paramedics who tattled on them?





> I guess mostly. The problems started when family members insisted they were courting disaster by having a home birth and to mollify them they had paramedics come check the babies out. The paramedics said the babies seemed fine but insisted that they take them to the hospital for "testing". They refused, the paramedics got butthurt, the next day CPS showed up and it's all downhill from there.


I'm sorry if this method doesn't suite some people, but right now I'm having a couple of problems of my own.

----------


## Origanalist

They weren't the cops, but...

----------


## 69360

At first sign of children's "services" you pick up your kids and leave the state. You can't fight them. If you are gone they will look for a softer target. I'm sorry these people learned that the hard way.

----------


## mosquitobite

> At first sign of children's "services" you pick up your kids and leave the state. You can't fight them. If you are gone they will look for a softer target. I'm sorry these people learned that the hard way.


Agree.

----------


## puppetmaster

> Good Lord, this is right up the highway from me.


  funny how no one protests this BS.

----------


## Origanalist

> I keep looking for any news on the hearing.  
> 
> http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pol...xmBY4gCZWrA.99
> 
> 
> 
> I also saw that Snopes is on the case defending the evil kidnappers, of course.
> 
> hxxp://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cpshomebirth.asp


Screw snopes, let those bozo's show where the state has the authority to come in and kidnap children because you refuse to accept what "THEY" say is best.

----------


## Origanalist

> funny how no one protests this BS.


It was pretty lonely out there.

----------


## randomname

On March 25, 2014, a Massachusetts judge ruled to grant permanent custody of 15-year-old Justina Pelletier to the state Department of Children and Families. Justinas family is outraged, and has been fighting since Valentines Day of 2013 for their daughter to be returned to them. She has been diagnosed with a rare mitochrondrial disease, one which DCF says is fabricated in Justinas head. Her family is worried about her, saying her health is deteriorating from lack of proper care in the psychiatric ward where she is living. Why are these parents being denied their rights, and why is this child being kept from her medical team?
Photo credit: Michael H/ Digital Vision/ Getty Images

In February of 2013, then 14-year-old Justina Pelletier was admitted to Boston Children's Hospital in Massachusetts. One of the premier children's medical facilities in the country, Justina was referred to Children's Hospital by her metabolic disorders specialist, Dr. Mark Korson, to see a gastroenterologist Justina already had an established medical relationship with. What has happened since is nothing short of a medical horror story, only it isn't fictitious.
It all started with a referral
She's been treated by a team of respected doctors from Tufts Medical Center for years, including Dr. Korson who is the chief of the metabolic department.



Justina, like one of her older sisters, has been diagnosed with mitochondrial disease, a group of rare genetic disorders that affect how cells produce energy, often causing problems with the gut, brain, muscles and heart. She's been treated by a team of respected doctors from Tufts Medical Center (also in Boston) for years, including Dr. Korson who is the chief of the metabolic department. Well, she had been treated for "mito" for years. That treatment stopped four days after admission to Children's Hospital, when the doctors there decided Justina was actually suffering from somatoform disorder, a psychiatric illness in which bodily symptoms are purely psychological and have no anatomic roots. Those same doctors determined Justina's parents, Lou and Linda Pelletier, were interfering with Justina's medical care by not acknowledging her "true" illness and pushing for "unnecessary" treatments. As a result, doctors from Children's Hospital contacted the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families (DCF) to charge the Pelletiers with "medical child abuse," or a child receiving unnecessary and potentially harmful medical care at the instigation of a caregiver. That day, February 14, 2013, the Pelletiers were escorted from hospital grounds by security, and have not had legal custody of their daughter since.
Legal state kidnapping

That gastroenterologist Justina initially transferred to Children's Hospital to see? She still hasn't seen him. In fact, he isn't allowed to see her or to have any input in her case. Neither is Dr. Korson or any of the other specialists who treated Justina for years. Justina has been moved to a psychiatric facility and her parents are only allowed once-weekly visits for an hour at a time  for Justina's "safety." And after numerous court proceedings, on March 25, 2014, a judge ruled to grant permanent custody of Justina to Massachusetts DCF. Justina had effectively been legally kidnapped by the State of Massachusetts in the name of medical child abuse because they don't agree with the Pelletiers' course of treatment  which was all doctor recommended.
It's not just the Pelletiers

The Pelletiers aren't the only parents to recently go through a state-kidnapping of their child. Alex and Anna Nikolayev made headlines in April of 2013 when California Child Protective Services (CPS) sent police to forcibly remove their then 5-month-old son Sammy from their home. The Nikolayev's video recorded the removal, which is admittedly hard to watch as a parent. Their offense? The Nikolayevs sought a second opinion after heart surgery was recommended by doctors at Sutter Memorial Hospital. Sammy had been at Sutter for almost two weeks for "flu-like symptoms" with several mistakes made by staff. "If we got the one mistake after another, I don't want to have my baby have surgery in the hospital where I don't feel safe," Anna said. The Nikolayevs discharged Sammy against medical advice and drove directly to Kaiser Permanente Hospital for a second opinion. While at Kaiser, police came to interview them prompted by a call from doctors at Sutter. The attending doctor at Kaiser said he had no concerns for Sammy's safety and discharged him. The next day Sammy was taken into state custody.
Sammy was returned, with a caveat

At a hearing a few days later a judge returned custody officially to the Nikolayevs, and authorized them visitation of Sammy any time they wanted. The judge also ruled, however, that Sammy would need to stay temporarily at yet a third hospital, Stanford Medical Center, and that the Nikolayevs would need to follow all future medical advice or risk losing custody again. Can you imagine being court ordered to do anything a doctor ever said  without the ability to seek a second opinion  or risk losing custody of a child? While this may seem rational to some, it isn't rational to a family who's ever been misdiagnosed.
Bad first day for Baby "Annie"

Yet another incidence of parental rights being trampled on by state social workers occurred in Pennsylvania to Jodi and Scott Ferris back in 2012. According to the lawsuit they filed against the doctors at Hershey Medical Center, their newborn daughter was held at the facility against their will, then custody was removed from them when they refused to allow a Hepatitis B vaccination without testing to verify necessity. Once custody of Baby "Annie" was taken by the state, the social worker ordered administration of the vaccine by hospital staff, who then informed Jodi and Annie they must leave hospital grounds, only authorized to return every three hours to nurse. At a hearing the next morning "Annie" was returned to the Ferris' custody, but only after an extremely traumatic first day of life for their little babe.
Parental rights are under attack.


Will these cases be the new norm?

Arguably, the most concerning aspect of all of these cases is the likelihood they will become the standard rather than the exception. With increased government involvement in health care due to the Affordable Care Act and a push by some in Congress to ratify the controversial United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UN CRC), parental rights are under attack. The UN CRC is especially concerning, as any nation which ratifies it is bound to it by International Law. The UN CRC has some really logical aspects to it, such as forbidding the death penalty for children and establishing a child's right to life, to a name and to form and express their own opinion. But it also provides sweeping power to governments, who would then be able to mandate sex education begin at age four, appoint a "guardian" to monitor a child and birth and evaluate your parental decisions and store all medical records in a national database, accessible by any teacher, doctor or social worker at any time.
A birthday present for Justina

In the cases of the Pelletier, the Nikolayev and the Ferris families, this concept that government officials can know better than a parent what a child needs is troubling. Yes, there are times where children are in danger and intervention is needed. But there are also times when intervention is overreaching, and these all seem to clearly be the latter. Especially in the case of Justina, who wants nothing more than to be home with her family to celebrate her sixteenth birthday next month in May.

Continued...
http://www.allparenting.com/my-life/...al-child-abuse

----------


## Origanalist

King 5 ran the story.

http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...dies/19819989/

----------


## Lucille

> They weren't the cops, but...


What happened?!




> It was pretty lonely out there.


Sad.  

Found these on https://www.facebook.com/MedicalKidnap

http://kgmi.com/news/007700-attorney...e-babies-back/




> Peter Wagner of KGMI News and Talk Radio in Bellingham, Washington has also reported on the story, interviewing the familys attorney, Stephen Pidgeon this morning.
> 
> Has the State's strategy of letting the Attorney Generals Office represent the case yesterday and take up all the court time, forcing the judge to extend the hearing until today, backfired? It gave local media an opportunity to pick up the story and create more public outcry.
> 
> This is becoming a national nightmare for the state of Washington...





> BELLINGHAM, Wash.  The story of a Bellingham mother who says the state took her three children away after her twins were born at home is getting a lot of attention on social media.
> 
> A hearing on the case is continuing today in Bellingham.
> 
> Attorney Stephen Pidgeon is representing the Rengo family, and says he has serious issues with yesterdays hearing on the case.
> [15 sec. audio clip]
> A statement released by the Department of Social and health services says a home birth isnt cause to take a child from their parents.
> 
> They wouldnt comment on the Rengos case specifically, but say a court found the childrens safety was in question and they needed to be removed.
> ...


How about with their PARENTS?!

http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...dies/19819989/




> BELLINGHAM, Wash. -- Erica May Carey and Cleave Rengo haven't applied for a Washington state marriage license, but they said their vows before God.
> 
> "We just prayed and invited God to bless our relationship so we'd have a family built on a firm foundation," Rengo said.
> 
> They'd only known each other a matter of hours before they decided to spend their lives together. Soon after, they conceived their first son.
> 
> Almost immediately after his birth, Carey was pregnant again. This time, the couple's Christian beliefs influenced their decision to have an unassisted home birth.
> 
> "I've done a lot of research about other women who have done it and they said the spiritual experience was so much more wholesome," Carey said. "It was just us. We wanted to preserve that sanctity and sacredness in our birth."
> ...

----------


## tod evans

Why aren't CPS employees names-n-addresses public knowledge?

If tax dollars are paying these $#@!s then taxpayers need direct access to them in their homes!

----------


## moostraks

> At first sign of children's "services" you pick up your kids and leave the state. You can't fight them. If you are gone they will look for a softer target. I'm sorry these people learned that the hard way.


Well, you can fight them but not many will believe you and it will ruin your reputation completely, drain your bank accounts, and leave a permanent mark on your life and the lives of your children. If it lasts over a year they can keep the children forever and they will stall to try and seize certain children that are adoptable to give to the foster parents as a reward for their service.

----------


## donnay

I have heard nothing from the Governor with regards to my outrage in this situation (not surprising at all).  They really hate us for our Freedom, folks.  Always remember who the terrorist really are!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Well, you can fight them but not many will believe you and it will ruin your reputation completely, drain your bank accounts, and leave a permanent mark on your life and the lives of your children. If it lasts over a year they can keep the children forever and they will stall to try and seize certain children that are adoptable to give to the foster parents as a reward for their service.


What happens to the kids CPS kidnaps?  Are they allowed to turn a profit by adopting them out to unwitting people?

----------


## Deborah K

Can't the Sheriff end all of this, or the Mayor?

----------


## donnay

> Can't the Sheriff end all of this, or the Mayor?



I would think the Sheriff has more power than the Mayor.  However, if it is an establishment-type Sheriff, s/he could do more harm, IMHO.

----------


## donnay

*Double post*

----------


## tod evans

> Can't the Sheriff end all of this, or the Mayor?


Authorities caused the problem in the first place, appealing to different authorities will only bring another batch of problems....

----------


## Deborah K

> Authorities caused the problem in the first place, appealing to different authorities will only bring another batch of problems....


My thinking was that since this is gaining public attention and outrage, the Sheriff's dept. could step in.  The thing is, no matter what is done, it's going to involve "different authorities".

----------


## moostraks

> What happens to the kids CPS kidnaps?  Are they allowed to turn a profit by adopting them out to unwitting people?





> The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion by President Bill Clinton, offered cash
> bonuses to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. In order to receive the adoption incentive bonuses local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sell and you must have plenty of them so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 bonus for each child adopted and an additional $2,000 for a special needs child. Employees work to keep the federal dollars flowing;    
> 
> 
> · that there is double dipping. The funding continues as long as the child is out of the home. When a child in foster care is placed with a new family then adoption bonus funds are available. When a child is placed in a mental health facility and is on 16 drugs per day, like two children of a constituent of mine, more funds are involved;...
> 
> · that the Foster Parents Bill of Rights does not bring out that a foster parent is there only to care for a child until the child can be returned home. Many Foster Parents today use the Foster Parent Bill of Rights to hire a lawyer and seek to adopt the child from the real parents, who are desperately trying to get their child home and out of the system;


http://fightcps.com/2008/02/29/repor...ps-corruption/

This is a must read for all parents written by the outspoken Senator from Georgia who was murdered after this report started gaining tremendous traction by those of us who have seen the system firsthand. There were a number of foster parents who I knew first hand were surfing the system for foster children to adopt. They get first pick of the new foster children and will tell the child as soon as they get them in their care about how they will adopt them and they will live with them forever. This is before any custody hearing occurs because pick ups are done and then they give a hearing in oh, 72 hours or so, depending on whether they can stall the case for some reason. The system is completely corrupt and needs destroyed.

----------


## moostraks

> My thinking was that since this is gaining public attention and outrage, the Sheriff's dept. could step in.  The thing is, no matter what is done, it's going to involve "different authorities".


They likely won't step on each other's toes. These folks usually have off duty relationships with each other.

----------


## Origanalist

> http://fightcps.com/2008/02/29/repor...ps-corruption/
> 
> This is a must read for all parents written by the outspoken Senator from Georgia who was murdered after this report started gaining tremendous traction by those of us who have seen the system firsthand. There were a number of foster parents who I knew first hand were surfing the system for foster children to adopt. They get first pick of the new foster children and will tell the child as soon as they get them in their care about how they will adopt them and they will live with them forever. This is before any custody hearing occurs because pick ups are done and then they give a hearing in oh, 72 hours or so, depending on whether they can stall the case for some reason. The system is completely corrupt and needs destroyed.

----------


## Origanalist

From Jason Overstreet's facebook page. HT to mosquitobite 

"The first one to plead his cause seems right, until his neighbor comes and examines him." -Proverbs 18:17

UPDATE: The Rengo Family placement hearing was continued...again...to Friday morning at 9 a.m.. The political pressure being exerted by an outraged public is very obviously reverberating from the Governor's office on down. The state wrapped up within 20 minutes, trying at the close of their argument to introduce new exhibits showing medical problems with one of the babies. The only problem was that the diagnosis for pneumonia, ear infections and reflux were well after the babies had been removed from their breast feeding mother.. The State fumbled, with the defense objecting to the haphazard manner in which the State introduced those documents. 

The State, realizing it's mistake, withdrew one of the documents and moved on. At that point the defense team proceeded to systematically disassemble the State's premise--the family argues; there are "mental health issues" in the home; and the parents weren't adequately using the rash cream. When the defense questioned the CPS supervisor as to whether or not the parents' religious beliefs were a consideration in this case, the State objected and the commissioner was very leery of the issue, demanding that the defense proceed carefully. I'll leave you to think about that one.

 The State is on thin ice and they know it. At one point during cross-examination, being pointedly questioned by one of the defense attorneys asking incredibly damaging questions to the State's case, the court commissioner had to ask the CPS supervisor on the stand to speak up because "your voice is fading." Mine would have been fading too.


This is not a comfortable conversation, it's true. I shudder the horror of your family, or mine, under a microscope of the bureaucracy that is CPS. Please pray for the family and all involved, that all would have clarity and that justice would prevail.
http://medicalkidnap.com//breastfed...ed-babies-ta/
 with Erica May.

----------


## donnay

> 


R.I.P Nancy Schaefer you're sorely missed.

----------


## Origanalist

Infowars took up the story.

http://www.infowars.com/cps-confisca...es-home-birth/

----------


## donnay

> Infowars took up the story.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/cps-confisca...es-home-birth/



I have been searching for other media outlets to report on this story---Nothing.

----------


## Origanalist

> I have been searching for other media outlets to report on this story---Nothing.


I'm surprised the local King 5 ran it.

----------


## tod evans

Permitting CPS (or any batch of tax-ticks) to operate behind closed doors is a recipe for disaster!

----------


## William Tell

> Infowars took up the story.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/cps-confisca...es-home-birth/


I just sent it to drudge, maybe if enough of us do that he will run it.

----------


## donnay

> Permitting CPS (or any batch of tax-ticks) to operate behind closed doors is a recipe for disaster!



That's the way these evil bastards work.  If there was transparency there would be no CPS.

----------


## Lucille

> I just sent it to drudge, maybe if enough of us do that he will run it.


Good idea.  Done.

----------


## donnay

David Knight filling in for Alex as host will be discussing this story in a few minutes.

http://www.infowars.com/watch-alex-jones-show/

----------


## William Tell

> David Knight filling in for Alex as host will be discussing this story in a few minutes.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/watch-alex-jones-show/


Thanks for the heads up, I just tuned in.

----------


## juleswin

OMG, I have been wondering why "Breastfed, Hummingbirth babies ....." thread is getting so much attention. Humming birds don't breastfeed and why would the state or anyone else care what happened to them? Then just now, I realize it says homebirthed not humming birth 

Crazy story regardless, at this point, nothing really outrages me.

----------


## donnay

> I have heard nothing from the Governor with regards to my outrage in this situation (not surprising at all).  They really hate us for our Freedom, folks.  Always remember who the terrorist really are!





> UPDATE 3  12/3/2014
> 
> The Rengo Family placement hearing was continuedagainto Friday morning at 9 a.m
> 
> Representative Jason Overstreet, representing the 42nd district in Washington, and who has taken an interest in this case, just posted an update on his Facebook Page:
> 
> *The political pressure being exerted by an outraged public is very obviously reverberating from the Governors office on down.*
> 
>     The state wrapped up within 20 minutes, trying at the close of their argument to introduce new exhibits showing medical problems with one of the babies. The only problem was that the diagnosis for pneumonia, ear infections and reflux were well after the babies had been removed from their breast feeding mother..
> ...


- See more at: http://medicalkidnap.com/2014/11/25/....EK0jUwZd.dpuf

----------


## Origanalist

USA Today...http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...oved/19877193/

Posted 7 hours ago;


Erica May
7 hrs · Bellingham, WA · 
We have another court date tomorrow at 9 am. Cleave and I will be testifying then and it will hopefully be concluded and our babies will be coming home! Keeping the faith. Belief is power. God's will be done.

----------


## Lucille

It's almost time.  Off to get on my knees and pray.  I wish Deb were here.  She always says the best prayers.

----------


## willwash

I hope the judge really, really rakes this CPS agency over the coals to set a new example.  Award this family 10 million dollars.

----------


## Lucille

Inslee:

https://www.facebook.com/WaStateGov/...35661709914282




> Over the past several days, hundreds of you have made your voices heard about a current case with our Child Protective Services in Washington regarding the Rengo family. I want to thank you for your concern and willingness to be vocal.
> 
> I’d like to be clear: every child’s safety is our top priority in situations like these. Rumors have circulated that the removal of the Rengo children was due to breastfeeding or their home births. Those rumors are false. Breastfeeding and home birthing are not factors that would cause CPS to take children from a home. Their removal from the home was based on factors unrelated to a home birth or breastfeeding.
> 
> That said, these cases hit home for many of us. We are fathers and mothers and aunts and uncles and we care about our families. And as mothers and fathers, I hope you’ll agree that safety is of utmost importance. Right now, we’ve determined (for reasons unrelated to a home birth) that the Rengo children’s safety is at risk and an independent court initially found that the children should not remain in the home. A court hearing is now underway with testimony being provided by all parties. At the end of the hearing, the court will decide if the children should remain out of their parents’ care or can safely return home.


Yeah, the life threatening condition known as eczema, which she was treating and improving with something other than steroids.

The one baby didn't have pneumonia before the state kidnapped it.

----------


## William Tell

To hell with CPS, its a damnable organization. Kidnapping bastards.

----------


## Suzanimal

I guess that I'm an unfit mother too. 

My #2 son has always been underweight according to their charts. He eats like a goat, btw. My #1 son has eczema and I rarely use the steroid cream on him.(we have a prescription with 6 refill on it right now) We have found using coconut oil brings him more relief when he has a break out. 




> BELLINGHAM — A couple whose three young children were taken from their Bellingham home a month ago said they’re being bullied by Child Protective Services for refusing to treat their oldest son’s eczema with a steroid cream, which they believed would harm him, and for deciding to give birth to their twins at home.
> 
> A CPS representative said home-birth wasn’t the issue in the case involving parents Cleave Rengo, 23, and Erica May Carey, 29, which has gone viral on social media.
> 
> “No policy of the Children’s Administration would allow a child to be taken from his or her parents because he or she was born at home. Home birth is not in any way a child safety risk factor,” said Laurie Alexander, area administrator for Children’s Administration, to which CPS belongs.
> 
> In a hearing before Whatcom County Superior Court Commissioner Thomas Verge this week, the state attempted to show an unstable household marked by numerous contacts with law enforcement — 14 in Whatcom County and seven in Vancouver, Wash., when the couple lived there — within the past two years and refusal to provide medical treatment to the children.
> 
> The case has generated an immense amount of attention, after their story was posted on the website Medical Kidnap, where it received more than a million page views, and was widely circulated on social media. It sparked outrage among readers with its account of breastfed babies being taken away from parents who had a home-birth and refused to go to the hospital.
> ...

----------


## donnay

> Inslee:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/WaStateGov/...35661709914282
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the life threatening condition known as eczema, which she was treating and improving with something other than steroids.
> 
> The one baby didn't have pneumonia before the state kidnapped it.



That is the boiler plate email I got from the governor.    I asked him when was eczema life threatening?  Many of us paying attention weren't born yesterday.  The state has no right telling these parents how to care for their children!  The state has kidnapped these children, plain and simple.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> That said, these cases hit home for many of us. We are fathers and  mothers and aunts and uncles and we care about our families. And as  mothers and fathers, *I hope you’ll agree that safety is of utmost  importance*. Right now, we’ve determined (for reasons unrelated to a home  birth) that the Rengo children’s safety is at risk and an independent  court initially found that the children should not remain in the home. A  court hearing is now underway with testimony being provided by all  parties. At the end of the hearing, the court will decide if the  children should remain out of their parents’ care or can safely return  home.


No, Governor, I do NOT agree that safety is of "utmost" importance.

So you can take your smarmy, mealy-mouthed excuses and your coy, eyebrow-batting protestations of "it's for the children!" and blow them out the anatomical orifice of your choice ...

----------


## mosquitobite

the babies are home with their parents!

They gave them a ton of conditions, of course.  State just can't give them back now that they've imposed their weight.  I'm sure the list of demands will include vaccinations as part of the deal of "getting" to keep their kids.

Anyone want to bet?

----------


## William Tell



----------


## William Tell

> the babies are home with their parents!


Thank God Almighty! 
I hope they are alright. Now I hope they sue big time.

----------


## donnay

> the babies are home with their parents!
> 
> They gave them a ton of conditions, of course.  State just can't give them back now that they've imposed their weight.  I'm sure the list of demands will include vaccinations as part of the deal of "getting" to keep their kids.
> 
> Anyone want to bet?


No bet here.  They probably vaccinated them while in their custody.

----------


## mosquitobite

> No bet here.  They probably vaccinated them while in their custody.


Standard procedure

Now, in order for the parents to earn the "privilege" of keeping their kids, I am sure vaccinations and regular MD trips will be required.  To hell with their religion.  The state demands worship!

----------


## William Tell

> Standard procedure
> 
> Now, in order for the parents to earn the "privilege" of keeping their kids, I am sure vaccinations and regular MD trips will be required.  To hell with their religion.  The state demands worship!


They should consider leaving Washington.

----------


## mosquitobite

> They should consider leaving Washington.


That is indeed what I would do if it were my family!

----------


## donnay

> They should consider leaving Washington.


No where to run.  These bastards are EVERYWHERE!  Conditioned family members and nosy neighbors started this wrath.

----------


## Origanalist

> No where to run.  These bastards are EVERYWHERE!  Conditioned family members and nosy neighbors started this wrath.


It's true, and they are poor so they probably don't have the means to.

----------


## William Tell

> It's true, and they are poor so they probably don't have the means to.


Tell us if they need help with anything, legal fund or just whatever.

----------


## Lucille

That is the best news.  I know the authorities will never leave that poor family alone, but at least they're together.




> Judge Verge, in allowing the parents to have their children back, reportedly made several conditions, threatening the young couple that their children would be removed again if they did not comply with his directives.
> 
> According to the Bellingham Herald, the judge stated he was giving the young parents a second chance. Seemingly admitting that there was never any question of abuse directed towards the children, the judge proceeded to lecture the young couple on how they should raise their family, including such details such as:
> 
>     where they should live    how a husband should treat his wife    what they should feed their children    what kind of medical treatment they are allowed to use for their children
> 
> 
> Is this really the function of family court and government-funded social services such as Child Protection Services?
> 
> ...


- See more at: http://medicalkidnap.com/2014/12/06/....UyaMdovH.dpuf

----------


## tod evans

> What do you think? Are CPS workers really the “heros” in this story?


Not only no.

*$#@! NO!*

----------


## mosquitobite

Commissioner Tom Verge was selected to be superior court commissioner by the judges of the Whatcom County Superior Court almost 15 years ago. He is not a judge and beat out 22 other attorneys who applied for the position. I would not in my wildest dreams want this piece of filth to oversee ANY case involving women or families. I would put pressure on Whatcom County Superior Court to get rid of this tripe from the bench. Anyone who thinks CPS in this case were heroes for stealing healthy babies from a loving home should not be behind a bench. 

Whatcom County Superior Court 
311 Grand Ave, Ste 301 
Bellingham, WA 98225-4048 
Thomas L. Verge, Commissioner 
360-738-2502

----------


## Lindsey

It seems this couple has a mother-in-law problem.  Her mother is all over Facebook claiming that he is bi-polar and that she is a battered woman afraid to leave him. Yet there was no record of a no contact order or restraining order.

----------


## mosquitobite

> It seems this couple has a mother-in-law problem.  Her mother is all over Facebook claiming that he is bi-polar and that she is a battered woman afraid to leave him. Yet there was no record of a no contact order or restraining order.


Yeah, she's on the comments here:
http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...780#f39bb035c8

----------


## William Tell

> Yeah, she's on the comments here:
> http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...780#f39bb035c8


More reason for them to leave.

----------


## KCIndy

> They should consider leaving Washington.



The island nation of Vanuatu has no extradition treaty with the United States.  Just sayin'...

----------


## Origanalist

> It seems this couple has a mother-in-law problem.  Her mother is all over Facebook claiming that he is bi-polar and that she is a battered woman afraid to leave him. Yet there was no record of a no contact order or restraining order.


I call bull$#@!. I met them and saw no indication of such. There was no fear in her of him.

----------


## Origanalist

> Erica May
> Yesterday at 11:53am · Bellingham, WA · 
> Praise God! We are all home together again. The babies are all well fed, happy and peacefully sleeping! Thank you to everyone for your prayers and we look forward to meeting as many of you as would like to be a part of our lives in a helpful and uplifting way!
> Sincerely, 
> The Rengos!


///

----------


## William Tell

> I call bull$#@!. I met them and saw no indication of such. There was no fear in her of him.


I think certain modern folks consider a happy loving, and voluntary submission of a wife to her husband to be an abusive relationship.

----------


## Origanalist

> I think certain modern folks consider a happy loving, and voluntary submission of a wife to her husband to be an abusive relationship.


I think you are right in spades. And he also deffered to her on subjects that she was more knowledgeable in. without reservation.

----------


## mosquitobite

I am a happy loving wife that voluntarily submits.

No one in my family assumes I am in an abusive relationship. Thankfully, I am in a wonderful relationship.

 I have been in one & no one knew because I didnt tell.

Perhaps the husband is controlling. That hardly gives grandma any pass on her thinking that CPS was the answer. she hurt her grandchildren & probably lost any chance to get through to her daughter for many years.  that call helped no one but the system.

----------


## William Tell

> I think you are right in spades. And he also differed to her on subjects that she was more knowledgeable in. without reservation.


Naturally.

----------


## Mani

Bitch who started it all  checkout her fedbook comment:


http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...780#f39bb035c8


_I am the Grandmother and there certainly was more to the story. CPS did the right thing. Its their job to protect children from crazy stupid people like Cleave Rengo who has my daughter captive as his so called wife and keeps her knocked up in the crazy town of Bellingham Wa. She is terrifed of him and he dictates all she does and did not let her get prenatal care or go to the hospital or use the medication for my grandson. He stopped her from using formual when I put them on it when they twins were failing to thrive. He should be in jail. If only there was a some way I could use the law to get him away from my daughter like CPS could at least take the kids from him. Everybody go back to your own lives, theres nothing to see around here. America doesn't care about a woman who is under a dictator like control of a so called Christian man._




Ding Ding Ding.  Crazy ass mother in law using the CPS and cops to $#@! with the Son in Law she despises.


Want to guess who made previous calls to the cops to complain about a bad husband??????  (Remember that was a big deal in the court case, all the cop calls to the home about domestic problems but the calls were never made from the wife).

This lady is $#@!ing admitting on Fedbook that she is using the state to try and $#@! with this guy as much as possible!!!!!!  Taking away the kids via CPS, trying to force the state to remove his wife from the home.   



So basically one evil resentful bitch can fill the heads of CPS and that's all it takes.  CPS is already crazy if they don't "agree" with your parental style.  So all they need is one phone call from an angry family member.  That's all it takes.


This is basically like SWATTING and bitch actually admits it!!!


Bitch was even happy that CPS ripped the kids away and traumatized the infants from being separated from the mom.   The child ended up getting more sick and the grandchildren were crying all day.  And Bitch was happy?  What kind of grandmother is happy about making her daughter suffer and making her grandchildren suffer?  All because she hates her son in law.




> If only there was a some way I could use the law to get him away from my daughter like CPS could at least take the kids from him.




*If only there was a some way I could use the law to get him away from my daughter like CPS could at least take the kids from him.*

*
If only there was a some way I could use the law to get him away from my daughter like CPS could at least take the kids from him.*

----------


## Origanalist

And now they are stuck with the State dictating everything they do for who knows how long. Time to leave, if they can.

----------


## Mani

> And now they are stuck with the State dictating everything they do for who knows how long. Time to leave, if they can.



Yes, time to one day leave completely and make sure the CRAZY mother in law has no clue where they went.

----------


## mosquitobite

> *
> If only there was a some way I could use the law to get him away from my daughter like CPS could at least take the kids from him.*


Agree.  If that had been my mother, I don't care how valid her concern.  Taking my children away from *ME* to punish him would mean war.

I have seen elsewhere that Erica called the cops a lot to solve their pre-baby disputes.  We really have no way of knowing what is true or false at this point.  But if she did call the cops a lot, then she's pretty naive, honestly.

----------


## Origanalist

> Agree.  If that had been my mother, I don't care how valid her concern.  Taking my children away from *ME* to punish him would mean war.
> 
> I have seen elsewhere that Erica called the cops a lot to solve their pre-baby disputes.  We really have no way of knowing what is true or false at this point.  But if she did call the cops a lot, then she's pretty naive, honestly.


It's true, I heard her say it. I think it was a few times for a few different reasons which I will not state here and the State tried unsuccessfully to use that against them.

----------


## willwash

I would love to defecate in a brown paper bag and leave it at the CPS offices in this town.  Maybe with a note that says "you".  Itd be nice if that became a thing.  Can you imagine thousands of bags of fecal matter littering the CPS offices?  Maybe grind it into their carpet with my boot before leaving.

----------


## mosquitobite

> It's true, I heard her say it. I think it was a few times for a few different reasons which I will not state here and the State tried unsuccessfully to use that against them.


Yeah, it's not enough of a reason for the state to take the kids.

But from my _estrogen-deficient_* female perspective, it makes her either naive or somewhat of a drama queen.  If she was calling her mother to "vent" about all these instances as well, then I hope she realizes she is partially to blame for her situation.  If she won't accept her role in this dance, then she's nothing more than a "victim" type and I don't tolerate that kind well. 


*my code word for a non-drama seeking or non-drama engaging type. LOL!


And even still, I would NEVER wish or agree with what CPS did.

----------


## Origanalist

> Yeah, it's not enough of a reason for the state to take the kids.
> 
> But from my _estrogen-deficient_* female perspective, it makes her either naive or somewhat of a drama queen.  If she was calling her mother to "vent" about all these instances as well, then I hope she realizes she is partially to blame for her situation.  If she won't accept her role in this dance, then she's nothing more than a "victim" type and I don't tolerate that kind well. 
> 
> 
> *my code word for a non-drama seeking or non-drama engaging type. LOL!
> 
> 
> And even still, I would NEVER wish or agree with what CPS did.


I'll keep my opinions to myself, but the fact remains that the State had NO cause whatsoever to take those kids. Nothing but trumped up bs from authoritarian pricks who did not get bowed down to properly.

----------


## euphemia

I'm sure there probably are situations that need CPS support, but those would be the scrawny, unhealthy, poor , older , abused children that nobody wants.  Cute babies are like waving a cape in front of a bull to CPS.  Everyone wants a baby.  A baby can't tell anyone anything.  An older child can tell about the abuses of the system.

----------


## donnay

> Yeah, it's not enough of a reason for the state to take the kids.
> 
> But from my _estrogen-deficient_* female perspective, it makes her either naive or somewhat of a drama queen.  If she was calling her mother to "vent" about all these instances as well, then I hope she realizes she is partially to blame for her situation.  If she won't accept her role in this dance, then she's nothing more than a "victim" type and I don't tolerate that kind well. 
> 
> 
> *my code word for a non-drama seeking or non-drama engaging type. LOL!
> 
> 
> And even still, I would NEVER wish or agree with what CPS did.


Her mother could also be one of those "conventional medicines is the best and they are wrong for not using it " kind of mother.  I have seen that before.  Her mother was pushing for steroids to be used on that infant rather than the natural methods her daughter was using.  Also having a home birth freaks all the conventional medicine people out.  If anything, her mother sounds like the dominate, demanding verbal abuser in this case, that should learn to mind her own business.

----------


## euphemia

It's that they were babies.  Two of them.  Two healthy babies.  Babies are easy to get into the system because they can't tell their stories and people want them.  Older kids, not so much.  Nobody wants to foster a 9yo who was born addicted to crack and has been sexually abused since preschool.

----------


## willwash

> Cute babies are like waving a cape in front of a bull to CPS.


SO much this.  Have you ever noticed that CPS workers are almost always overweight women?  Which generally means low self esteem, hormonal imbalances, and personal insecurity.  I really try to treat people as individuals, but this is a demographic trend I simply cannot ignore.

----------


## euphemia

This would have never happened if these were scrawny pre-adolescents.  Nobody wants to waste time on a kid whose hormones are about to go haywire.  Nobody wants a teenager who can eat them out of house and home and outgrows shoes and jeans on a weekly basis.  Nobody cares about those kids.  They are in the system and nobody gives a hoot.  They have a story and an opinion.  Nobody wants to hear it.

People like images of cute babies.  Foster parents are lining up to take the babies.  Adoptive parents are begging for babies.

----------


## Lindsey

I read in a comment that CPS had tried to force them to sign up for food stamps and WIC.  Apparently their refusal to use these programs was part of the reason their kids were kidnapped. 

*This is hearsay. I have nothing to back this up, but comments from their local newspaper's site.

----------


## donnay

> I read in a comment that CPS had tried to force them to sign up for food stamps and WIC.  Apparently their refusal to use these programs was part of the reason their kids were kidnapped. 
> 
> *This is hearsay. I have nothing to back this up, but comments from their local newspaper's site.


That would not surprise me in the least.  SMDH

----------


## donnay

> UPDATE: On Friday, according to local reports, the children were returned to their home, although they remain under state protection; a judge ordered the parents to seek out counseling as a condition of the babies return.


https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/coup...434804787.html

----------


## mosquitobite

Need more stories like this so people won't willingly hand over their kids!   What happens when the husband/boyfriend gets a police uniform to make it look more official?

http://www.wthr.com/story/27613814/g...ted-dcs-worker

----------


## donnay

> Need more stories like this so people won't willingly hand over their kids!   What happens when the husband/boyfriend gets a police uniform to make it look more official?
> 
> http://www.wthr.com/story/27613814/g...ted-dcs-worker


IMHO, what is the difference?  A CPS worker is a kidnapper sanctioned by government.

----------


## donnay

Published on Dec 20, 2014

Join us tomorrow. Free Live Stream http://www.Infowars.com/show 3pm to 6pm central. Live Coverage from Spokane Washington MRAP Police State Buildup protest. Join us on the ground or on the web.

A new lawsuit exposes thousands of children being ripped from their homes without a warrant. Here's how you can protect yourself from an unscrupulous agency.


florida child abuse capital
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

..CPS is busy ripping kids from parents who won't obey
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/poli...

1000's taken without warrants
http://www.infowars.com/lawsuit-thous...

----------


## Cissy

> I am a happy loving wife that voluntarily submits.
> 
> No one in my family assumes I am in an abusive relationship. Thankfully, I am in a wonderful relationship.
> 
>  I have been in one & no one knew because I didnt tell.
> 
> Perhaps the husband is controlling. That hardly gives grandma any pass on her thinking that CPS was the answer. she hurt her grandchildren & probably lost any chance to get through to her daughter for many years.  that call helped no one but the system.


This. The answer to an abusive, controlling individual is NEVER to call in an abusive, controlling system. I suppose it's theoretically possible that a tiger may chase out a rat in your home---but then you have to rid yourself of the greater threat.

----------


## donnay

Update:  

*Fugitive couple who fled after losing custody of their children 'because of holistic Christian lifestyle' finally tracked down ...and the mother is arrested for 'attacking police'*

By Joel Christie and James Nye
6 February 2015 

A devoutly Christian Washington state couple who went on the run with their children amid an ongoing custody dispute with Child Protective Services have been found in California, with the mother arrested for allegedly headbutting and kicking officers.

CPS went to the Bellingham address of Cleve Goheen-Rengo, 23, and Erica Carey, 29, on January 28 to take their three young children into protective custody following numerous welfare concerns over a chaotic home life, however the family had fled.

The couple - who hit headlines last year after saying they lost custody of their newborn twins for delivering them via homebirth with no assistance - were not officially wanted, but a 'Be On The Lookout' had been issued to law enforcement across the West Coast, according to KSBW.

Local news outlets also ran the notice, and a member of the public spotted the family at a gas station in Aptos, south of San Francisco, on Thursday and called police.

Highway patrol and Santa Cruz County Sheriff's deputies seized upon the gas station and found the family.

The children - three-month-old twins Moran Kai and Daniel and one-year-old son Levi - were not harmed.

Erica Carey was arrested, however, for allegedly attacking police. 

'She head-butted one of our sergeants and kicked a sheriff's deputy,' CHP Officer Brad Sadek told KSBW. 

Carey also reportedly screamed out for Jesus and told a local cameraman: 'Send a message to America for me. Children don't belong to the government. The government belongs to the people.'

The father was not arrested.

The three children have been placed in the care of Child Protective Services.

*Continued...*

----------


## mosquitobite

So now CPS _in other states_ can basically issue Amber Alerts for children not currently in their custody nor jurisdiction.  And people will rat them out.

What charges have been filed against the parents?  Any?


Who wants to bet they were losing custody again to some non-compliance with a CPS edict such as vaccination?  Any takers?

----------


## Origanalist

> 'Send a message to America for me. Children don't belong to the government. The government belongs to the people.'


The government doesn't think so. There was no way this wasn't going to happen, someones "authoritay" has been questioned. This will not be allowed.

----------


## Origanalist

> So now CPS _in other states_ can basically issue Amber Alerts for children not currently in their custody nor jurisdiction.  And people will rat them out.
> 
> What charges have been filed against the parents?  Any?


See something, say something. Be a good American.

----------


## mosquitobite

> See something, say something. Be a good American.


I edited my comment above.

Want to bet that they were losing custody again because of something like their refusal to get the children vaccinated?  How much you willing to bet?

----------


## Origanalist

> I edited my comment above.
> 
> Want to bet that they were losing custody again because of something like their refusal to get the children vaccinated?  *How much you willing to bet?*


That amount would be exactly zero.

----------


## Lucille

That poor family.  I was afraid this would end with them losing their kids to the state kidnappers/child traffickers.  They wanted those babies, and nothing was going to stop them from getting them.

http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...rnia/22919021/

https://www.facebook.com/MedicalKidnap

----------


## donnay

> I edited my comment above.
> 
> Want to bet that they were losing custody again because of something like their refusal to get the children vaccinated?  How much you willing to bet?


That is exactly what I think-- now that the 'measles outbreak' (90 people across the country) is being reported.  

'Holistic Christian lifestyle' will be a new catch phrase for vaccine pushers to move forward in trying to get rid of vaccine exemptions and force people against their will to get this horrendous vaccines.

----------


## tod evans

This is really a $#@!ed up deal!

----------


## donnay

> This is really a $#@!ed up deal!


Yeah it is.  SMDH.

----------


## mosquitobite

bump

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Don't worry, mundanes.  The government is here for your safety.  Keep voting, don't ask questions.

----------


## DamianTV

> That is exactly what I think-- now that the 'measles outbreak' (90 people across the country) is being reported.  
> 
> 'Holistic Christian lifestyle' will be a new catch phrase for vaccine pushers to move forward in trying to get rid of vaccine exemptions and force people against their will to get this horrendous vaccines.


Then lets get to the bottom of this.

The real problem the state has is not with being Christian, but because as a Christian, the Monopoly of Belief of the Govt has been challenged.  The form of Christianity that the Govt will expect is STATE Worship, not God worship.  Praise Jesus?  Thats just fine as long as the STATE is also Worshipped.  And there in lies the problem.  By being Christian in a way that does not promote STATE Worship, the Monopoly on Belief has been challenged, thus, the other two monopolies of Money and Violence are used against the Non State Believer.

The individual is expected to NOT think about what they are told to think, only to think it.

This is the THOUGHT CRIME.  Belief.  Violence was used to split up the family so that the young can be taught the Religion of STATE Worship.

----------


## The Gold Standard

All is well that ends well. These children will now be raised to be good citizens. My appreciation goes out to the brave and merciful Sheriff's deputies who showed such restraint while facing imminent danger, and also the upstanding Americans who reported the whereabouts of these thieves. God bless America.

----------


## Lucille

> http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/02...ng-today-pt-1/


Will someone please rep Originalist for me?  I'm outta.

----------


## anaconda

Can the parents sue the asses off of CPS?

----------


## tod evans

> Can the parents sue the asses off of CPS?


Surely you jest?

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Headbutting and kicking are not allowed while your children are stripped from your arms by thugs.  What a world we live in.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Local news outlets also ran the notice, and a member of the public spotted the family at a gas station in Aptos, south of San Francisco, on Thursday and called police.


See Something Say Something.

And, amongst _Boobus_, not a $#@! will be given.

----------


## Anti Federalist

More "politicals" for the gulag.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Carey also reportedly screamed out for Jesus and told a local cameraman: *'Send a message to America for me. Children don't belong to the government. The government belongs to the people.'*


_Boobus_ does not care, nor do they believe this.

----------


## Anti Federalist

///

----------


## donnay

*Moment babies were taken from Christian couple who fled when officials tried to take kids into foster care 'over parents' holistic lifestyle'* 

By Sophie Jane Evans

This is the dramatic moment a devoutly Christian couple who went on the run with their children after losing custody of them were finally tracked down - and the mother was arrested for 'attacking police'.

Erica Carey, 29, and Cleve Goheen-Rengo, 23, were spotted in California on Thursday, more than a week after they fled with their twin babies and toddler son from their Washington state home.

When police arrived at a Santa Cruz gas station that the couple had been sighted at, they discovered the youngsters - twins Moran Kai and Daniel and one-year-old Levi - unharmed.

However, when Child Protective Services (CPS) workers arrived to take the children into protective custody, Carey allegedly lashed out, kicking and headbutting officers while begging Jesus for help.


A devout Christian: This is the dramatic moment Erica Carey, 29, was arrested after she and her partner, Cleve Goheen-Rengo, 23, went on the run with their three children because they had lost custody of them to the CPS

She was quickly arrested, but not before she had screamed at a local cameraman: *'Send a message to America for me. Children don't belong to the government. The government belongs to the people.'*

Her partner was not arrested, while her children - who had reportedly been underfed and deprived of proper medical care by the couple, who live a 'holistic Christian lifestyle' - were handed to the CPS.

Officials arrived at Carey and Goheen-Rengo's Bellingham home on January 28 to take Moran Kai, Daniel and Levi into protective custody amid serious health concerns, according to KSBW.

*Continued...*

----------


## Theocrat

> *Moment babies were taken from Christian couple who fled when officials tried to take kids into foster care 'over parents' holistic lifestyle'* 
> 
> By Sophie Jane Evans
> 
> This is the dramatic moment a devoutly Christian couple who went on the run with their children after losing custody of them were finally tracked down - and the mother was arrested for 'attacking police'.
> 
> Erica Carey, 29, and Cleve Goheen-Rengo, 23, were spotted in California on Thursday, more than a week after they fled with their twin babies and toddler son from their Washington state home.
> 
> When police arrived at a Santa Cruz gas station that the couple had been sighted at, they discovered the youngsters - twins Moran Kai and Daniel and one-year-old Levi - unharmed.
> ...


It's $#@! like that which reminds me of how dangerous "Statheism" truly is. That is simply outrageous!

----------


## Origanalist

> *Moment babies were taken from Christian couple who fled when officials tried to take kids into foster care 'over parents' holistic lifestyle'* 
> 
> By Sophie Jane Evans
> 
> This is the dramatic moment a devoutly Christian couple who went on the run with their children after losing custody of them were finally tracked down - and the mother was arrested for 'attacking police'.
> 
> Erica Carey, 29, and Cleve Goheen-Rengo, 23, were spotted in California on Thursday, more than a week after they fled with their twin babies and toddler son from their Washington state home.
> 
> When police arrived at a Santa Cruz gas station that the couple had been sighted at, they discovered the youngsters - twins Moran Kai and Daniel and one-year-old Levi - unharmed.
> ...


This makes me sick to my stomach. I only spent a couple of hours with them but I don't believe for a second their children were" underfed and deprived of proper medical care by the couple".

----------


## donnay

> This makes me sick to my stomach. I only spent a couple of hours with them but I don't believe for a second their children were" underfed and deprived of proper medical care by the couple".


It doesn't matter, it ONLY matters what the state says.  It is sickening on so many levels, the only words that come to me is sheer contempt for these kidnappers.  They are government sanctioned kidnappers.  I pray to God that he keeps a protective hand over these children, because they are with such evil.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It doesn't matter, it ONLY matters what the state says.  It is sickening on so many levels, the only words that come to me is sheer contempt for these kidnappers.  They are government sanctioned kidnappers.  I pray to God that he keeps a protective hand over these children, because they are with such evil.


God is a kid with an ant farm.

If he wishes to destroy these people, then he will, just like he did to Job or the early Christians suffering torture and death at the hands of Roman oppressors.

God helps those who help themselves.

We all allow this, so therefore it will continue.

If we were half the men we were 200 odd years ago, those responsible would be tarred and feathered.

But we're not.

So this poor women is left screaming for Jesus' help to an empty and uncaring cosmos.

----------


## donnay

> God is a kid with an ant farm.
> 
> If he wishes to destroy these people, then he will, just like he did to Job or the early Christians suffering torture and death at the hands of Roman oppressors.
> 
> God helps those who help themselves.
> 
> We all allow this, so therefore it will continue.
> 
> If we were half the men we were 200 odd years ago, those responsible would be tarred and feathered.
> ...


I do not presume to know the mind of God but I do not think he sits back rubbing his hands together looking for people to destroy.  Unfortunately for some people to wake up others become martyr's to the cause.  It has happened throughout time.  


Hebrews 13:5 - [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Deuteronomy 31:8 - And the LORD, he [it is] that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

Deuteronomy 31:6 - Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13:6 - So that we may boldly say, The Lord [is] my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

1 Peter 5:7 - Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Joshua 1:9 - Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God [is] with thee whithersoever thou goest.


Matthew Chapter 10: 17 - 18

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

Matthew 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

----------


## jessahick

> God is a kid with an ant farm.
> 
> If he wishes to destroy these people, then he will, just like he did to Job or the early Christians suffering torture and death at the hands of Roman oppressors.
> 
> God helps those who help themselves.
> 
> We all allow this, so therefore it will continue.
> 
> If we were half the men we were 200 odd years ago, those responsible would be tarred and feathered.
> ...


Really?

I remember discussing this very thing with you Anti Feds shortly the Amish school shootings....God doesn't cause the bad things to happen. Please place the blame where it belongs. Evil is alive and working overtime right now. And evil does evil. God may not intervene sometimes when we would want Him to, but he is not the cause.

----------


## Mani

The screwed up part is this happened because of the SEE something SAY something.  Someone recognized this lady and called the cops to have this women's children ripped away from her.  Way to go citizen!

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## mosquitobite

> The screwed up part is this happened because of the SEE something SAY something.  Someone recognized this lady and called the cops to have this women's children ripped away from her.  Way to go citizen!


Yes. 

Just like people who call cops because a kid walks alone.

Wtf?  What happened to society just watching the kid walk if you're concerned.  Is taking kids from their parent really your goal when you call 911??

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## ClydeCoulter

> Really?
> 
> I remember discussing this very thing with you Anti Feds shortly the Amish school shootings....God doesn't cause the bad things to happen. Please place the blame where it belongs. Evil is alive and working overtime right now. And evil does evil. God may not intervene sometimes when we would want Him to, but he is not the cause.


Because?  He didn't create everything?  Because we all fall short of the glory God?  Even if his son died for all of our sins?

It almost seems as if we are on our own, in this.  You can come up with all manners of excuses.  "He helps those who help themselves"... etc... but there are only so many excuses.

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## Lucille

Beware the autoplay vid at the link.

http://www.king5.com/story/news/loca...rial/23591805/




> "'We're taking custody of these three children. They belong to the state of Washington,'" Carey remembered an officer tell her. "I said, 'My children do not belong to a state."
> 
> However, Carey and Cleave Rengo's kids are in state custody for the second time. The first followed the couple's unassisted home birth of twins, refusing a hospital visit when paramedics advised them after someone called 911 to the home.
> 
> The couple cited their Christian faith, which they say also prompted a decision to use natural remedies for their toddler's eczema when the state recommended steroid cream.
> 
> Also, the state argued the twins were too skinny. Carey was breastfeeding all three children.
> 
> "My family - my house - will serve the Lord," Cleave said. "That's a decision we have to live with."
> ...

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## donnay

Still shaking my damn head.  The kids DO NOT belong to the state!!!!

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## Created4

> Still shaking my damn head.  The kids DO NOT belong to the state!!!!


Until we move the discussion away from: 

"which parents need to have their children taken away"

to:

Does the State Ever Have a “Right” to Remove Children from a Home?

we're losing the war.

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## donnay

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

~ Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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## Anti Federalist

> Really?
> 
> I remember discussing this very thing with you Anti Feds shortly the Amish school shootings....God doesn't cause the bad things to happen. Please place the blame where it belongs. Evil is alive and working overtime right now. And evil does evil. God may not intervene sometimes when we would want Him to, but he is not the cause.


Did not God actively engage in the wager with Satan over Job?

He could have said "no, I will *not* torture one of my most faithful servants this way".

But he *didn't*, he went right ahead and did it, to prove a larger point.

We'll stop the march of tyranny when we get off our asses and do it, and not one second sooner.

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## Anti Federalist

*The* video in one viewing:

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