# News & Current Events > Economy & Markets >  Interesting appeals court ruling in Canada - debt-based money is done?

## devil21

Just came across this video.  It sounds important.   (and make sure you read post #4 in this thread and the rest of the thread.)

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## DFF

Good find!

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## HVACTech

those dumb canucks, 
 around here the banks control the media with the fedgov's permission!

oh, wait...

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## devil21

I probably should start a new thread for this post but Ill get it written down while it's fresh.  Wall of text!

This court case is indicative of a much larger scale shift in global monetary policy underway.  Most here know I've been following this issue pretty closely over the years, trying to work it out.  

My guess at this point is that a global gold standard is being implemented and is at the end stages of completion.  This global gold standard will be administered at an international central bank, per the globalist's desire for openly centralized global monetary control.  The gold will be held primarily in China under the BRICS bank umbrella, which is actually another branch of the World Bank and IMF western central bank system, imo.  Media coverage of much of the behind-the-scenes moves, such as this case, is being forbidden until the timing is "right" to coordinate a more mainstream release of information about the changes and/or an event catalyst to use as a cover, purported to necessitate the changes, something that directly affects Fed operations.  Sears Tower and Chicago Fed are likely flash points.  Stay out of Chicago in September!!  The Fed, and other fiat central banks in their current iteration, will dissolve and the "currency" returned to Treasury control.  Debt forgiveness/repudiation later this year (google: Shemitah jubilee) as the Fed goes away and foreign interests that held US debt have taken control of the American collateral (land, resources such as potential mining areas, forests, fresh WATER, etc, which is the real purpose of agenda 21 and probably the primary mission of Jade Helm 15) pledged against that debt.  Those foreign debt holders won't just take it up the rear, WW3 would kick off.  If they wish to avoid the utter chaos of the dollar's fiat "value" disappearing overnight, they can't shrink the amount of dollars (currency and digital) in the US.  Instead, the day-to-day monetary control will be returned to the Treasury and the FRN replaced slowly by a national US Dollar.  There will likely be a revaluation of the dollar downward during the transition as the FRN (global reserve) is replaced by the US note and global reserve status is lost but I don't have an opinion on how that will play out yet.  Gold, in nominal dollars, would be revalued to reflect the ratio of actual amount of dollars in circulation to the amount of gold the US Dollar is backed by in the foreign central bank....or at least alleged to be, by the global bankers themselves.  I don't have much of an opinion on what the revaluation will be, since no one seems to really know how much gold there actually is and the figures are all over the place.  Karen Hudes says hundreds of thousands of tons while official banker released numbers are far, far lower.  Which one is correct or are both of them completely wrong?  Who knows?  If Hudes is correct, then gold would probably revalue lower than it is today, at least in the short term while the shift settles out.  If the bankers are correct and it's only enough to fill a few swimming pools, gold would skyrocket.  If I were to guess, I'd say gold will revalue substantially higher simply because of how many dollars there are.  That's just a guess though, since I don't foresee an official announcement claiming that gold supplies are exponentially higher than has been reported for years.  It's been mined for thousands of years but only fills a few swimming pools?  Unlikely.  Anyway, gold has been steady overall since the start of the year though....a settling period appears to be taking place between gold and the dollar.  DX is rising yet gold stays relatively stable.  No large movements up or down.  Hmm.  Not often do we see DX going up, oil going down sharply, and gold steady but we have lately.  Probably no coincidence that the PM manipulation tactics seem to be winding down and big banks selling or closing their commodities sectors.

Gold will still be a local physical store of wealth and no bankers can change that monetary law (especially while openly holding all the gold), at least barring another 1933 EO event, but it's status as an inflation hedge/inverse relationship to the dollar will be no longer since the dollar would be declared gold backed already.  There is no gold, other than that which is privately held, in the US.  Most here know this.  It's been sent to the global central bank.  Think of the coming situation like how the Fed was "custodian" of other country's gold, but as Zippy constantly reminded us, the Fed "owned" no gold. A global central bank will be the global "custodian" for the US and other countries, which will be the claimed backing for the national currency.  No, it isn't a better solution for advocates of sovereignty.  It only takes the "custodian" principle to the next level of unaccountability.

Ive waded through a lot of stuff over the years, *a lot* of bs, *a lot* of misdirection, got caught up in hypes which makes one miss important items, made some bad calls, made some good ones too, etc and this is where I've ended up.  Take what you like from my thoughts but I have no desire to argue with anyone about them.  We wanted to get off of debt based money and I think we're getting it.  Of course, there's still a lot of changes that will be made to accommodate this new system (the IRS no longer collecting income tax as a means to pay national debt interest, for example) but I think this is where it's heading.

----------------------------------------
note:  Most of what I wrote is about a coordinated shift in perception.  That's all that really matters in the big picture.  All the gold on the planet could be whisked away by aliens but as long as the bankers say "it's there, this is how much of it there is and here's the new system" and everyone underneath them that controls perception of the masses buys into it and spreads it, does it really matter?  Not really.  It's the slow changing of perception that matters.  If this perception shift is unsuccessful and the whole thing stalls out, you'll need your PMs, along with your guns and ammo and preps for the chaos that ensues.  An interesting wrinkle to this whole scenario could be that in order to keep constitutionalists, libertarians, and the more shall-we-say "revolutionary" minded people at bay during such a large ceding of sovereignty, the TPTB (who we generally accept as being in control of presidential elections) could put Rand into the WH as sort of peace offering.  May you live in interesting times....

eta:  I have stopped updating the above post.  Please read the entire thread for new/corroborating information, as I will update it over time.

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## Ronin Truth

*"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks." -- Lord Acton*

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## edward222

> I probably should start a new thread for this post but Ill get it written down while it's fresh.  Wall of text!
> 
> This court case is indicative of a much larger scale shift in global monetary policy underway.  Most here know I've been following this issue pretty closely over the years, trying to work it out.  
> 
> My guess at this point is that a global gold standard is being implemented and is at the end stages of completion.  This global gold standard will be administered at an international central bank, per the globalist's desire for openly centralized global monetary control.  The gold will be held primarily in China under the BRICS bank umbrella, which is actually another branch of the World Bank and IMF western central bank system, imo.  Media coverage of much of the behind-the-scenes moves, such as this case, is being forbidden until the timing is "right" to coordinate a more mainstream release of information about the changes  (or an event catalyst to use as a cover, purported to necessitate the changes).  The Fed, and other fiat central banks in their current iteration, will dissolve and the "currency" returned to Treasury control.  Debt forgiveness/repudiation later this year (google: Shemitah jubilee) as the Fed goes away and foreign interests that held US debt have taken control of the American collateral (land, resources, agenda 21) pledged against that debt.  Those foreign debt holders won't just take it up the rear, WW3 would kick off.  If they wish to avoid the utter chaos of the dollar's fiat "value" disappearing overnight, they can't shrink the amount of dollars (currency and digital) in the US.  Instead, the day-to-day monetary control will be returned to the Treasury and the FRN replaced slowly by a national US Dollar.  There will likely be a revaluation of the dollar downward during the transition as the FRN (global reserve) is replaced by the US note and global reserve status is lost but I don't have an opinion on how that will play out yet.  Gold, in nominal dollars, would be revalued to reflect the ratio of actual amount of dollars in circulation to the amount of gold the US Dollar is backed by in the foreign central bank....or at least alleged to be, by the global bankers themselves.  I don't have much of an opinion on what the revaluation will be, since no one seems to really know how much gold there actually is and the figures are all over the place.  Karen Hudes says hundreds of thousands of tons while official banker released numbers are far, far lower.  Which one is correct or are both of them completely wrong?  Who knows?  If Hudes is correct, then gold would probably revalue lower than it is today, at least in the short term while the shift settles out.  If the bankers are correct and it's only enough to fill a few swimming pools, gold would skyrocket.  Gold has been steady overall since the start of the year though....a settling period appears to be taking place between gold and the dollar.  DX is rising yet gold stays relatively stable.  No large movements up or down.  Hmm.  Not often do we see DX going up, oil going down sharply, and gold steady but we have lately.  Probably no coincidence that the PM manipulation tactics seem to be winding down and big banks selling or closing their commodities sectors.
> 
> Gold will still be a local physical store of wealth and no bankers can change that monetary law (especially while openly holding all the gold), at least barring another 1933 EO event, but it's status as an inflation hedge/inverse relationship to the dollar will be no longer since the dollar would be declared gold backed already.  There is no gold, other than that which is privately held, in the US.  Most here know this.  It's been sent to the global central bank.  Think of the coming situation like how the Fed was "custodian" of other country's gold, but as Zippy constantly reminded us, the Fed "owned" no gold. A global central bank will be the global "custodian" for the US and other countries, which will be the claimed backing for the national currency.  No, it isn't a better solution for advocates of sovereignty.  It only takes the "custodian" principle to the next level of unaccountability.
> 
> Ive waded through a lot of stuff over the years, *a lot* of bs, *a lot* of misdirection, got caught up in hypes which makes one miss important items, made some bad calls, made some good ones too, etc and this is where I've ended up.  Take what you like from my thoughts but I have no desire to argue with anyone about them.  We wanted to get off of debt based money and I think we're getting it.  Of course, there's still a lot of changes that will be made to accommodate this new system (the IRS no longer collecting income tax as a means to pay national debt interest, for example) but I think this is where it's heading.
> ...


What A Great Wall Of Text is this. Anyways, this is cool.

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## Madison320

No court ruling will end fiat currencies. The only thing that will end fiat currency is when price inflation gets unbearable.

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## devil21

I'll update this thread with articles I come across that may confirm my global gold standard theory above.

Senators offer plan to close IRS
http://americanfreepress.net/?p=23185




> Has the late, great JimTraficant’s flat sales-tax proposal outlived the former Ohio Democratic congressman and entered the legislative pipeline? This could be the case, as Senators Gerald W. “Jerry” Moran (R-Kan.) and David Alfred Perdue, Jr. (R-Ga.) have introduced a bill designed “to overhaul and simplify the American tax system.”
> 
> The bill, S. 155, was read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance. The other cosponsors at this writing are Senators Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) and Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.). Its House companion bill is H.R. 25.
> 
> Moran’s bill, in many respects, uncannily resembles the federal consumption tax proposal put forth by Traficant.
> 
> What the Moran bill lacks, however, is Traficant’s other major provision to divorce the Federal Reserve central bank, which is owned and controlled by the Rothschild dynasty. Jim also envisioned Congress reviving its dormant sovereign power to stop being a tenant and issue money directly interest free—instead of renting Fed money at perpetual interest. 
> ................
> Moran said: “I joined Senator Perdue . . . in introducing the Fair Tax Act of 2015. . . . Our proposal, known specifically as the ‘Fair Tax,’ replaces our complicated and costly tax system with a flat national consumption tax and would eventually close the Internal Revenue Service.” - more at link


The Fed and IRS are joined at the hip.

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## devil21

IMF and World Bank will be 'delighted' to work with the BRICS Asian Infrastructure bank, says IMF head Lagarde.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-imf...#ixzz3V8RDBH1j




> BEIJING (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund will be "delighted" to cooperate with the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), said IMF managing director Christine Lagarde on Sunday.
> 
> Lagarde added that there is "massive" room for co-operation with AIIB on infrastructure financing.
> 
> The World Bank will also cooperate with the AIIB, Lagarde told a conference in Beijing.
> 
> Her comments come after a number of countries said they would participate in the new bank slated to start operations by the end of the year, even as others raised concerns over potential competition with other lenders.


Delighted because the same people that control the IMF and WB also control the BRICS bank and AIIB, maybe?

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## Natural Citizen

Relevant reading...




> The enabling financing and funding comes not from conventional equity and debt finance capital which are useless where the rule of law is weak - but rather from the use of prepay credit instruments issued by suppliers like Gazprom and returnable in payment for natural gas supplied. Through this simple but radical mechanism - which has already been the subject of a direct US$85 billion crude oil transaction between Russia's Rosneft and China's Sinochem - it is possible for producers to financially engage directly with end-user consumers.





> This then opens the way firstly to networked Eurasian physical energy markets and pricing hub benchmarks and secondly to a financial "Energy Clearing Union" agreement whereby energy producers and consumers engage in mutually guaranteed generic energy and value exchanges.




http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5807104

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## devil21

Cracking down on (discouraging, actually) cash withdrawals, aka FRN use.

http://www.infowars.com/feds-urge-ba...-5000-or-more/

Imo, based on my theory above, it is because they want to remove FRNs from circulation.  It's not that simple though.  Of course there is the aspect of minimizing cash in the economy, for the eventual transition to all-digital, but this particular move is more geared toward discouraging new FRNs from circulating, since they plan to replace existing cash with non-FRN US Treasury Notes.  The less FRNs in circulation, the easier to introduce the US Notes.

Watch this Esurance commercial and think about what you see:


^^^^^^
conditioning

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## devil21

Did anybody watch the Esurance commercial above and notice the US Note being used instead of the Federal Reserve Note?

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## devil21

H/T to DamianTV for this thread:  (another revelation similar to the op video)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...o-Create-Money
----------------------------------

Might be a good time to exchange some spare digital "dollars" for physical metals.  Stack some physical cash too.

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## devil21

Well worth a read.  I think this blogger nails some of the finer points of the changes underway.  All of his commentaries are worth reading.  He knows his stuff.

China to "purchase" the Federal Reserve
http://philosophyofmetrics.com/2014/...deral-reserve/


(eta:  looks like that site has changed to subscription for newer content, sorry)

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## Zippyjuan

That is some article.  It also claims that because China bought a building from JP Morgan for $725 million that China now owns JP Morgan (which is worth $2.7 trillion- if you can buy a $2.7 trillion company for $725 million I would call that a steal! And the execs of JP Morgan fired). 




> China has recently purchased the JP Morgan building in Manhattan for $725 million.  *One could reason that they have in fact purchased all of JP Morgan.  And I’m sure it will soon be announced that China has or is in the process of purchasing other Western banks and physical assets.* These banks make up the majority owners of the Federal Reserve.


(the major banks do NOT own the Federal Reserve)

His claim that China is "buying the Fed" is assuming that China is buying every single dollar of US Debt- (which they are not doing- China hasn't purchased any additional US debt in the year since this article was written).  




> In essence, China has been slowly buying up the Federal Reserve for some time now.  If you can call it a purchase.  Its more of a negotiation over assuming the liabilities of both the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury.
> 
> The Federal Reserve is the largest holder of U.S. debt at $2.1 trillion.  China is second at $1.3 trillion.  Think of it as the United States government doing a debt consolidation of all its treasury bonds because it can no longer pay or service the debt.


He says the US defaulted in 2013 (they didn't).  

Also claims China owns all the gold in the world (they don't).  




> *The gold reserves of the west have been depleted by China.  Some say there is no gold left*.  This is more physical assets gone from the legers of the Western banks.  The system of debt based money creation of the Western world is dead.  It’s over.  The shift East is in the final stages of completion.


China will save the world and make everything right again. 



> It will happen over a weekend, as many have already predicted.  *The televisions will announce the largest deal in financial history between the Federal Reserve and China.  They will discuss how all the worlds currencies have been revalued to reflect true production ratios and physical assets.  Accounts will be balanced.  War criminals will be prosecuted*.



Entertaining but certainly not a factual article.

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## devil21

Whatever you say Zipparoo.  I scaled back my enthusiasm over the article just for you.  Everything is ho hum status quo right?  What was I thinking??

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## devil21

bump for anyone that hasn't checked out the http://www.philosophyofmetrics.com site yet.  VERY good insights on the global economic changes underway are available there.

eta: the insights into the rebalancing of the SDR, to incorpoate the RMB and likely gold itself, is very important.  The SDR will replace the dollar as global reserve "currency", though it's a "monetary unit" based on a basket of currencies.

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## TheCount

> VERY good insights on the global economic changes underway are available there.


Devil, you've been a member here since 2007.  I'm going to assume that your economic beliefs are at least that old, though I'm guessing that they're even older than that.


Is there a point in time at which you would consider that maybe the changes you believe are happening are not actually happening?

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## devil21

Somebody neg rep TheCount on my behalf please.  He's on my ignore list but always posts something stupid in any comment directly after mine.
---------------

eta:  I felt like giving my own neg rep today so I read it.

Not actually happening?  You mean there are no IMF/G20/BRICS/UN/etc meetings where they decide the direction of the global economy?  You mean the dollar was never on the gold standard and then taken off?  You mean a global reserve currency doesn't always last approximately 99 years before it needs to be changed due to dilution of the currency?  You mean Bretton Woods never happened?  You mean China isn't the biggest economy in the world now and US unemployment isn't 25-30%?  You mean there isn't a police state implementation in progress to quell unrest due to coming economic changes?  You mean the stock market isn't rigged and computer controlled to keep an illusion of prosperity while big changes are made?  I already mentioned above that changing perception is the biggest factor so of course I recognize that most of the changes won't be apparent in day-to-day existences of most people (well, except for the gradually lowering standards of living as the income divide gets larger, cops slowly turning into revenue generating terminators and other slow 'boil the frog' observations).  That certainly doesn't mean it's "not actually happening".

Sorry but the stuff they DON'T talk about on the news is what is actually the news.  I recognize that most of what passes as "news" is actually just semi-fictional stories used to implement economic changes under false pretenses.  Nice try with the gas-lighting technique though.

Now here's your neg rep and back on ignore list.  Have a nice day.

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## devil21

Here's an example of the gov't giving resource rich land to foreign debt holders as part of settling the debt, as I described in post #4.  I betcha Rio Tinto invested in a lot of Treasuries.  This sort of thing is going on all over the country.  Foreign debt holders are quietly taking control of land and assets in exchange for the gov't debt they hold.

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/s...the-lurch.html




> SUPERIOR, Ariz. – A place of great natural beauty, popular among rock climbers and campers, a part of Tonto National Forest known as Oak Flat has been under federal protection from mining since 1955, by special order of President Eisenhower.
> 
> On the nearby San Carlos Apache reservation, many consider Oak Flat to be sacred, ancestral land – the home of one of their gods and the site of traditional Apache ceremonies.
> 
> But Oak Flat also sits on top of one of the world’s largest deposits of copper ore. Resolution Copper Mining, a subsidiary of British-Australian mining conglomerate Rio Tinto, has sought ownership of the land for a decade, lobbying Congress to enact special legislation on its behalf more than a dozen times since 2005.
> 
> Year after year the bills failed to pass. But in December, the legislation was  was quietly passed into law as part of the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act. Arizona Sen. John McCain, who has long championed the deal, said the land exchange would “maintain the strength of the most technologically advanced military in the world” since copper is the second-most-utilized mineral by the Department of Defense.
> 
> As part of the deal, Resolution Copper will swap roughly 7.8 square miles of land scattered across Arizona for roughly 3.8 square miles of Tonto National Forest, which includes Oak Flat. The new legislation will open up Oak Flat for copper mining.
> ...


I suspect enforcing these sorts of land seizures are what Jade Helm is primarily about.  Not everyone is going to stand down when the foreign debt holders come to claim "their" land.

eta:  and perhaps McCain wasn't referring to the US military as the most technologically advanced military?

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## TheCount

I'll take that as a no.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Somebody neg rep TheCount on my behalf please.


Done.  The Democrat instigator is negged.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> I'll take that as a no.


You never answered my question of whether or not you're a Democrat, so I'll take that as a yes.

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## devil21

> You never answered my question of whether or not you're a Democrat, so I'll take that as a yes.


Just a friendly note to you.  I understand why you call out the known trolls but remember that Democrats that are interested in Rand2016 will start visiting this forum soon, if not already.  Don't get too comfy throwing around the anti-Dem rhetoric, lest you scare off potential supporters of his campaign.

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## acptulsa

Well, devil, you've got Z2.0 issuing meaningless and deceptive blanket denials (the sole stockholders of the Fed don't "own" it--but we won't say what we do call it) and Wee Willie Wonka doing his obnoxious best to derail the thread.  Unfortunately, you certainly seem to be onto something.

Cute feint to have Russia, China, Brazil _et al_ pretend to be trying to compete with the FRN, but actually set up its Official Replacement as 'reserve currency'.  That does sound like their style.  No wonder they don't want any Pauls in the White House right now.  A simple emptying of the Fed basements and filling of Ft. Knox would be enough to bring the whole plan down in flames.

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## devil21

> Well, devil, you've got Z2.0 issuing meaningless and deceptive blanket denials (the sole stockholders of the Fed don't "own" it--but we won't say what we do call it) and Wee Willie Wonka doing his obnoxious best to derail the thread.  Unfortunately, you certainly seem to be onto something.


The key is to think like the bankers do.  They do not consider themselves to ever be part of a country, rather they are global "citizens" that basically carpetbag all around the world, latch on to the resources of that country and suck it dry, then move the whole game somewhere else to restart it.  This is where understanding the workings of secret societies becomes important and understanding _real_ history.  At the top levels, they all work TOGETHER, not against each other.  It's the "big club" Carlin was talking about.  Remember, 
"all wars are banker (created) wars" with the only purpose being to perpetuate their scam until they eventually control every resource on the planet.  It reminds me of the scene from Independence Day when the President has a telepathic vision from the "alien".  The "aliens" hop from planet to planet, devouring the resources like *locusts*, then moving to the next planet to start over.  Same idea.  




> Cute feint to have Russia, China, Brazil _et al_ pretend to be trying to compete with the FRN, but actually set up its Official Replacement as 'reserve currency'.  That does sound like their style.  No wonder they don't want any Pauls in the White House right now.  A simple emptying of the Fed basements and filling of Ft. Knox would be enough to bring the whole plan down in flames.


Yep.  They're all working together because they are all ultimately controlled by bankers with the same agenda.  Also consider that if they don't get their wish, these are the kinds of people that will burn society to the ground on the way out the door instead of admitting failure and taking their medicine.  Scary thought....
------------

I took TheCount off my ig list so I can document the continued harassment.  Now I'm in the sig?  Your obsession with me is creeping me out!  Do I have to start fearing for my safety?

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## Zippyjuan

> Well, devil, you've got Z2.0 issuing meaningless and deceptive blanket denials (the sole stockholders of the Fed don't "own" it--but we won't say what we do call it) and Wee Willie Wonka doing his obnoxious best to derail the thread.  Unfortunately, you certainly seem to be onto something.
> 
> Cute feint to have Russia, China, Brazil _et al_ pretend to be trying to compete with the FRN, but actually set up its Official Replacement as 'reserve currency'.  That does sound like their style.  No wonder they don't want any Pauls in the White House right now.  A simple emptying of the Fed basements and filling of Ft. Knox would be enough to bring the whole plan down in flames.


How do YOU think that Fed ownership is structured? Links to support your theory? As I have said, the "shares" are not stock shares like in a corporation but a membership fee.

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## devil21

> How do YOU think that Fed ownership is structured? Links to support your theory? As I have said, the "shares" are not stock shares like in a corporation but a membership fee.


There is no "theory".  It's right there in the Fed Act.  The Fed Act seems to think they are stockholder shares and call them such repeatedly.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section5.htm




> Section 5. *Stock* Issues; Increase and Decrease of Capital
> 1. Amount of *shares*; increase and decrease of capital; surrender and cancellation of *stock*
> 
> The *capital stock* of each Federal reserve bank shall be divided into *shares of $100 each*. The outstanding capital *stock* shall be increased from time to time as member banks increase their capital *stock* and surplus or as additional banks become members, and may be decreased as member banks reduce their capital *stock* or surplus or cease to be members. *Shares of the capital stock of Federal reserve banks owned by member banks* shall not be transferred or hypothecated.


Seems pretty straight-forward to me.  Where's your link explaining that the *stock shares* aren't actually *stock shares*?

Also note that one of the possible conditions to dissolve the Fed is a 2/3 vote by STOCKHOLDERS to do so.  Sounds like a standard meeting of stockholders making a decision, like any other corporation.

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## H. E. Panqui

...devil21, be careful with that bill still stuff...acala becked and limbaughed at me about bill still over at my fantastic monetary thread,* "Exposing Republicrat Monetary Ignorance For Dummies"*(btw, anyone know of a better thread or a more knowledgeable po$ter, please name the name...i'd like to talk to them!)

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## devil21

> ...devil21, be careful with that bill still stuff...acala becked and limbaughed at me about bill still over at my fantastic monetary thread,* "Exposing Republicrat Monetary Ignorance For Dummies"*(btw, anyone know of a better thread or a more knowledgeable po$ter, please name the name...i'd like to talk to them!)


I think Bill Still is a shill for the bankers, as are a lot of other commentators that built their reputations on exposing the realities of the monetary system.  Pretty much everyone has a price.  If I were to comment on the OP video, it would be that lawsuits like that are covers perpetrated by the bankers themselves to dissolve the legal framework that the current system works under, without forcing legislators to do it.  Judges are owned and issue rulings as they are told to.  IOW, bankers can basically sue themselves to get the changes they want and tell the judges to "make it so".  
-----------------------

Another website worth reading that ties in with my post #4.  It talks about how the debt is settled, bond redemption, etc and does it in actual daily blog form so you can track the official progress!  Even suggests FRN to US Note exchange rate will be 92 Notes per 100 FRN.  Well worth a read, follow any links you see and google whatever terms you don't recognize (like "federal reserve box"...wth is that?).

http://humanus.ca/landa-global-general-updates.php

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## devil21

---------------

Something....something....disrupting Fed operations....something....something....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0N528G20150414




> (Reuters) - The New York branch of the U.S. Federal Reserve, wary that a natural disaster or other eventuality could shut down its market operations as it approaches an interest rate hike, has added staff and bulked up its satellite office in Chicago.
> 
> Some market technicians have transferred from New York and others were hired at the office housed in the Chicago Fed, according to several people familiar with the build-out that began about two years ago, after Hurricane Sandy struck Manhattan.
> 
> Officials believe the Chicago staffers can now handle all of the market operations that are done daily out of the New York Fed, which is the U.S. central bank's main conduit to Wall Street.
> 
> The satellite office in the Midwest readies the New York Fed for perhaps the most delicate U.S. interest-rate hike ever. With rates having been near zero for more than six years, and markets flooded with reserves, the Fed will rely on an array of new tools to help it tighten policy, likely later this year.
> 
> Two of the sources, which included market participants and Fed officials and who spoke under condition of anonymity, said the Chicago office was partly protection against a possible cyber attack against the New York Fed. In February, Fed Chair Janet Yellen told a congressional panel the central bank is addressing "ever-escalating (cyber) threats to our operations."
> ...


Any city with a Fed regional bank is at risk of 'something' major happening there that will disrupt Fed operations sometime this year.  Signs point to Chicago but NY, Philly, Dallas too.

-------
Chicago muni debt downgraded to junk status; cities, schools and parks
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/29...nk-bond-status

--------------------------
The Pope to visit NY, DC, Philly end of September.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...ia_visi_1.html

-----------------------------
'ISIS' claims it could buy a nuke or tons of ammonium nitrate explosives in the next year
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10270525.html

I recall reading something recently about a large amount of ammonium nitrate going missing but can't find any links on it now.

----------------------
Silverstein/Blackstone purchased Willis (Sears) Tower....
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ower/24851199/

-----------------------------
Chicago Fed bricked up first floor windows
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/v...p?f=41&t=25582
-------------------------------

*EDIT:  Middle of April 2016 through early May 2016, avoid Chicago!*

----------


## devil21

I think someone owes me a bit of credit.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...mplodes-part-5

----------


## devil21

Chase banks now making moves to discourage cash transactions?  Waiting for more confirmations but Chase did announce changes to cash transactions a few months ago.  The addition of refusing to store *cash and coins* in safe deposit boxes and refusing cash for debt payments appears new.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...rganchase.html




> Letters are apparently going out to some JPMoragnChase (sic) customers announcing that cash will be prohibited from being stored in the bank's safety deposit boxes.
> 
> At the Collectors Universe message board, a commenter reports:
> 
>     My mother has a SDB at a Chase branch with one of my siblings as co-signers. Last week they got a letter outlining a number of changes to the lease agreement, including this:
> 
>     "Contents of the box: You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."
> 
>     Another change is that signatures will no longer be accepted to access the box. The next time they go in they have to bring two forms of ID and they will be issued a four-digit pin number that will be used to access the box then and in the future.


more at link, including a Mises write-up on Chase's cash policy changes.  How can a bank refuse legal tender?  Wouldn't that make the debt itself void per the UCC?

----------


## Paul Or Nothing II

> Chase banks now making moves to discourage cash transactions?  Waiting for more confirmations but Chase did announce changes to cash transactions a few months ago.  The addition of refusing to store *cash and coins* in safe deposit boxes and refusing cash for debt payments appears new.
> 
> http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...rganchase.html
> 
> more at link, including a Mises write-up on Chase's cash policy changes.  How can a bank refuse legal tender?  Wouldn't that make the debt itself void per the UCC?


Storing cash & coins in a safe deposit box isn't debt-repayment so legal tender laws don't apply. Legal tender laws apply only to debt-repayment.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...al-tender.aspx



> This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise


The suggestion to drastically limit cash-transactions by itself is hardly conspiratorial in nature because it's a well-known fact that Keynesians believe that borrowing & spending drives economic growth (as opposed to free marketers' view that savings drive economic growth). So the suggestion to limit cash transactions (& disallowing storage of cash & coins in safe deposit boxes) is so that people would deposit them in bank accounts, which would grow banks' reserves (as if they aren't already huge ), which will allow banks to lend more & allow people who do want to spend to borrow & spend. Weird thinking but that's Keynesianism for ya!

Another article from the same website lays out the thought-process behind it.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...es-report.html



> Citi Group's top economist, Willem Buiter, sees a big problem with cash.
> 
> He is of the opinion that becasue interest rates are so low, the Federal Reserve is not able to pump sufficient quantities of money into the economy.
> 
> He holds this view despite the fact that the money supply has grown by near 50% , since the interest rate controlled by the Fed, the Fed Funds rate, has been near zero.
> 
> Buiter somehow views this money growth as not sufficnt, despite the fact that sound economics teaches that it is increased production of goods and services, not increased money printing that grows an economy.
> 
> Part of this "problem" of  Keynesian imagined slow money growth, in Buiter's views, is because of cash. *For Buiter, when interest rates are extremely low he sees the potential for people to hold their funds as cash instead of putting it in the banking system, where banks can use it as reserves to increase the money supply even more*.


It's crazy even by mainstream economic standards because he wants to increase banks' reserves by restricting cash but the funny thing is that the banks ALREADY have huge amounts of reserves. So there's little room to think that whatever little reserves will be added to existing reserves by restricting cash are going to make a huge difference.
So lack of reserves isn't at all the problem, the problem is that there's too much debt, malinvesment & bubbles around, which need to be liquidated by raising interest rates (or rather by allowing interest rates to float freely in a free market). But raising interest rates would require the government to control spending, which it isn't doing. So Fed, being a government entity, is enabling government's continued mischief by keeping interest rates low.

Besides, if there are enough restrictions on cash & people can't get enough of the "regular" cash then alternative currencies will become more popular amongst those dealing in cash, may be bitcoins, gold/silver & whatever people find easier to use for their cash-transactions.

----------


## devil21

> Storing cash & coins in a safe deposit box isn't debt-repayment so legal tender laws don't apply. Legal tender laws apply only to debt-repayment.


I never claimed the safety deposit box issue was related to legal tender rules.  You should read the whole thread to understand the context of the post you replied to.  And don't start clogging up this thread with your long-winded scribes that no one reads.

----------


## Paul Or Nothing II

> I never claimed the safety deposit box issue was related to legal tender rules.  You should read the whole thread to understand the context of the post you replied to.  And don't start clogging up this thread with your long-winded scribes that no one reads.


I might concede that these days perhaps more people here are interested in the conspiratorial stuff that you post than my view of analyzing every issue independently based on reason & verifiable information but you're always free not to read or reply to my posts.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Chase banks now making moves to discourage cash transactions?  Waiting for more confirmations but Chase did announce changes to cash transactions a few months ago.  *The addition of refusing to store cash and coins in safe deposit boxes* and refusing cash for debt payments appears new.
> 
> http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...rganchase.html
> 
> 
> 
> more at link, including a Mises write-up on Chase's cash policy changes.  How can a bank refuse legal tender?  Wouldn't that make the debt itself void per the UCC?


Banks don't know what you have in your safety deposit boxes.  http://www.bankrate.com/finance/savi...estions-1.aspx




> Some people may be reluctant to put items into their boxes because of privacy concerns. But such fears are unfounded, as *liability concerns keep banks from prying into safe-deposit contents.*
> 
> "We don't want to know what's in there," says Cyril "Sid" Spiro, CEO of Regent Bank in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. "*Whatever is in those boxes, we have no idea*."


Source for the claim that they are not allowing cash in safety deposit boxes is from some online forum according to your link.

Cash in a safety deposit box is not insured.

More research shows the alleged letter is from April Fool's Day. https://mises.org/blog/chase-joins-war-cash




> In a letter to its customers *dated April 1, 2015* pertaining to its "Updated Safe Deposit Box Lease Agreement,"  one of the highlighted items reads:  "You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."  Whether or not this pertains to gold and silver coins with no numismatic value is not explained.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Banks don't know what you have in your safety deposit boxes.



Your source quoted one person. 





The Economic Policy Journal says something different.

From the Economic Policy Journal:






> The Bankster War on Cash; JPMorganChase Begins to Prohibit the Storage of Cash in Its Safety Deposit Boxes 
> Letters are apparently going out to some JPMoragnChase customers announcing that cash will be prohibited from being stored in the bank's safety deposit boxes.
> 
> At the Collectors Universe message board, a commenter reports:
> 
> My mother has a SDB at a Chase branch with one of my siblings as co-signers. *Last week they got a letter outlining a number of changes to the lease agreement, including this*:"*Contents of the box: You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value*."
> Another change is that signatures will no longer be accepted to access the box. The next time they go in they have to bring two forms of ID and they will be issued a four-digit pin number that will be used to access the box then and in the future.
> Professor Joseph Salerno of the Mises Institute writes:
> 
> ...


..

----------


## Paul Or Nothing II

> thanks for the bumps at least....some of us will still keep talking about what matters regardless of you and your shill buddies attempts to derail


Neg-repping someone just because they have a different opinion, just shows your intolerance. Intolerance is the antithesis of liberty. One of the core principles of liberty is that a person is innocent until proven guilty & the belief in following the Due Process; so why don't you provide proofs to the admins of RPF to prove that I'm in fact a "shill" or whatever & get me banned? THAT is how someone who truly believes in liberty would be expected to act.

----------


## devil21

> Neg-repping someone just because they have a different opinion, just shows your intolerance. Intolerance is the antithesis of liberty. One of the core principles of liberty is that a person is innocent until proven guilty & the belief in following the Due Process; so why don't you provide proofs to the admins of RPF to prove that I'm in fact a "shill" or whatever & get me banned? THAT is how someone who truly believes in liberty would be expected to act.


Oh look it's a new derail attempt from one of Zip's buddies.  I do appreciate the bumps, though, seriously.  More people should read this thread.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Did anybody watch the Esurance commercial above and notice the US Note being used instead of the Federal Reserve Note?


Prop money

----------


## H. E. Panqui

devil 21 asserts: *I think Bill Still is a shill for the bankers, as are a lot of other commentators that built their reputations on exposing the realities of the monetary system.* 



(...bill still claims he wants to take the money creation power/privilege away from the secret-squirrel banksters and place it in under a TRANSPARENT treasury dept....if true, he would be hated by said banksters...

...btw, i had to laugh at your 'other commentators who've exposed the realities of the monetary system' comment...I HAVE FOUND VERY VERY VERY FEW OF THEM...COULD YOU NAME JUST 5 OF THESE 'EXPOSER$'...(..i didn't think so!)

----------


## Paul Or Nothing II

> Oh look it's a new derail attempt from one of Zip's buddies.  I do appreciate the bumps, though, seriously.  More people should read this thread.


The fact that you think I'm Zippyjuan's friend just shows how clueless you are. Anyway, as I've said, it's un-libertarian to accuse a person of being guilty without proof so go ahead, prove to the admins that I'm a "shill" & get me banned if you can otherwise you are just being intolerant & un-libertarian by merely pelting baseless accusations at me for having different opinions. How dare I disagree with the The Devil!

----------


## Paul Or Nothing II

> (...bill still claims he wants to take the money creation power/privilege away from the secret-squirrel banksters and place it in under a TRANSPARENT treasury dept....if true, he would be hated by said banksters...


The idea that anybody, especially the government, should be allowed to issue unbacked money is ridiculous. Look how well it turned out for Zimbabwe.




> ...btw, i had to laugh at your 'other commentators who've exposed the realities of the monetary system' comment...I HAVE FOUND VERY VERY VERY FEW OF THEM...COULD YOU NAME JUST 5 OF THESE 'EXPOSER$'...(..i didn't think so!)


Actually, there are quite a few socialist/communist people out there who talk about the evils of central-banking in general & offer the "solution" of allowing the government to create unbacked money; obviously, being a "metalist", I don't follow them so don't remember all of their names but Mike Montagne, Steve Zarlenga, The Venus Project guys along with Bill Still & there are some guys on youtube offering the same "solution".

----------


## devil21

National debt has been frozen.  Hmm....

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tere...18112975000000




> According to the Daily Treasury Statement for Wednesday, April 22, which was published by the U.S. Treasury on Thursday, April 23, that portion of the federal debt that is subject to a legal limit set by Congress closed the day at $18,112,975,000,000—for the 40th day in a row.

----------


## osan

Speaking of which, can anyone state the cite for that case where a mortgage was declared void based on the fact that the borrower was in fact not loaned "money" but mere vapor?  I would very much like to read up on it.

TIA.

----------


## osan

> No court ruling will end fiat currencies. The only thing that will end fiat currency is when *price* inflation gets unbearable.


You must mean CURRENCY inflation.

True price inflation is most often a phenomenon of a somewhat localized nature, relating to the supply-demand relationship.  The more fundamental the supply shortage, the broader the effect.  For example, if 6-32 screws become scarce due to lack of production, there may then result a price inflation due to short supply.  But if the shortage is due to lack of available steel to make them, then the price inflation will fan out over a far broader region of the economic landscape.

Currency inflation, OTOH, is like price inflation on steroids because the supply-demand relationship is altered in a far deeper and far-reaching fashion.  Give the average man $1million and he will most often start spending with some abandon.  Do that with everyone by pumping huge reserves into the economy and everyone follows suit.  Demand rises, prices rise to a degree.  When demand outstrips production capacities, that is when prices begin rocketing upward.  Some say "well, then the manufacturers will invest in larger production facilities."  Not so fast.  Many businesses are not run by blind idiots.  As such, they tend to analyze trends and when they see they are in a "bubble", they lay back and maintain the status quo, even if it means running three shifts a day to keep up.

So, there is clearly a similarity of nature, but a gross difference in cause and degree of effect.

----------


## osan

> Whatever you say Zipparoo.  I scaled back my enthusiasm over the article just for you.  Everything is ho hum status quo right?  What was I thinking??


Hate to say it pal, but Zippo makes a valid point.  At the least the wording is ambiguous and poorly crafted, which calls the author into some question.  This is important stuff WRT human affairs on the larger scale.  Therefore, if one wishes not only to be taken seriously but also to be properly understood, it behooves an author to write well.  That particular sentence is either spectacularly flawed grammatically, or the author has been smoking too many banana peels.  Buying a building does not in itself imply the purchase of the institution from whom it was purchased.  You have to admit that it is a pretty serious flaw in the article.  After reading that, one must wonder what other possibly less conspicuous easter eggs might there be.

----------


## osan

> Here's an example of the gov't giving resource rich land to foreign debt holders as part of settling the debt, as I described in post #4.


Good grief... the litany of issues this raises.

Federal lands are, IMO, "commons", meaning they are owned by nobody or my everyone all at once - take your pick.  

Fedgov, not owning them (contrary to Theire claim) have no authority to give them to anyone.

Fedgov had no mandated Constitutional authority to secure debt with MY assets.  They have no authority to assume debt in my name, leaving me on the hook to pay.

----------


## devil21

> Hate to say it pal, but Zippo makes a valid point.  At the least the wording is ambiguous and poorly crafted, which calls the author into some question.  This is important stuff WRT human affairs on the larger scale.  Therefore, if one wishes not only to be taken seriously but also to be properly understood, it behooves an author to write well.  That particular sentence is either spectacularly flawed grammatically, or the author has been smoking too many banana peels.  Buying a building does not in itself imply the purchase of the institution from whom it was purchased.  You have to admit that it is a pretty serious flaw in the article.  After reading that, one must wonder what other possibly less conspicuous easter eggs might there be.


I agree the author should have explained his rationale for that part of his commentary.  I don't think it takes away much from the rest of the content though.  Given the accuracy of the rest, I'm sure he has his reasons.  It's not the first time I've seen it mentioned by people in the know that China is buying up US financial institutions, under the guise of "investment" in said institutions.  Blackstone's real estate arm is an example.




> Good grief... the litany of issues this raises.
> 
> Federal lands are, IMO, "commons", meaning they are owned by nobody or my everyone all at once - take your pick.  
> 
> Fedgov, not owning them (contrary to Theire claim) have no authority to give them to anyone.
> 
> Fedgov had no mandated Constitutional authority to secure debt with MY assets.  They have no authority to assume debt in my name, leaving me on the hook to pay.


Constitutionally, no the Fedgov has no authority to secure debt with your assets.  Fortunately for Fedgov, you agreed to it contractually (assuming you are a US Citizen with a social security number), thus making the Constitutionality irrelevant.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Federal debt is not secured by anything but the ability of the government to tax.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> There is no "theory".  It's right there in the Fed Act.  The Fed Act seems to think they are stockholder shares and call them such repeatedly.
> 
> http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section5.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Seems pretty straight-forward to me.  Where's your link explaining that the *stock shares* aren't actually *stock shares*?
> 
> *Also note that one of the possible conditions to dissolve the Fed is a 2/3 vote by STOCKHOLDERS to do so.  Sounds like a standard meeting of stockholders making a decision, like any other corporation*.



Link to 2/3 vote by share holders to close the Fed? 2/3 of Congress can if the President agrees.  Fed shares have no voting powers and cannot be bought, sold (except back to the Fed if they leave the Federal Reserve banking system), or traded. They are a membership to join the banking organization but are not like corporate stock shares.

To become a Federal Reserve Bank member, a financial institution must turn over ten percent of their net assets to the Fed- in exchange, they are given the "shares". 

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm




> *Who owns the Federal Reserve?*
> 
> The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. * It is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution.*
> 
> As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress of the United States. It is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.
> 
> However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by the Congress, which often reviews the Federal Reserve's activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government" rather than "independent of government."
> 
> The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. *However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company.* The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and *ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year*.

----------


## devil21

It's right in the Fed Act, along with the other conditions under which the Fed and/or its member banks can be dissolved, such as declaring bankruptcy, violation of law, or termination by Congress through repeal of the Fed Act.

----------


## devil21

This thread needed a bump and an update and my spidey senses said tonight seemed like a good time 

China tests yuan denominated gold price fixing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0NR06J20150506




> China conducted trial runs for the planned launch of a yuan-denominated gold fix last month, three sources familiar with the matter said, in a sign the world's second-biggest bullion consumer was moving closer to creating a benchmark price.
> 
> The state-run Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE), on whose international platform the fix will be launched, conducted the trial with major Chinese banks and a few foreign banks, the sources said this week.
> 
> The SGE could not be immediately reached for comment.
> 
> China, also the top gold producer, feels its market weight should entitle it to be a price-setter for bullion and it is asserting itself at a time when the established benchmark, the century-old London fix, is under scrutiny because of alleged price-manipulation.
> 
> The London Bullion Market Association said last week it was considering the possibility of creating an exchange for gold trading in the city, a shift away from the over-the-counter system.
> ...



eta:  I also recently heard that petroleum has been successfully synthesized for large scale distribution by a french company and that may play heavily into the moves to ditch the dollar as world reserve, oil price drops, middle eastern upheaval/positioning.  I won't update post 4 without more confirmation of this but it fits.  A large event ('ISIS'?) that coincides with what I have posted in #4 and add in an oil embargo that makes the introduction of the new oil necessary, along with the new money (Harriet Tubman on the new $20, eh?) and the rest of it.

--------------

Understanding the religious components, mainly the Shemitah cycles.  This is what Goldman's Lloyd Blankfein meant when he said Goldman Sachs was "doing God's work."  The changes must take place in accordance with religious observation/doctrine in order for the participants to maintain clear conscience about their actions (confession), particularly if people are harmed as a result.  God made me do it! 
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...f-the-Shemitah

Related to Shemitah is Catholic observation.  There's a lot of "overlap" between Jewish and Catholic religious schedules and observation.  December 8 is the start of Catholic jubilee observation.  Nov 20 2016 is the end.
http://www.nawas.com/catholic/holy-y...ilgrimages.htm




> Since the year 1300, the church has declared jubilee years every 25 or *50 years*.


According to Shemitah cycles, this is the 50th year of the cycle, which is a jubilee year.

ETA:  Shemitah is one part of the observances.  Catholic jubilees are the linchpin observation.  Jewish holidays are a cover for the Catholic (Khazar) holidays.  Misdirection big time.

----------


## Ronin Truth

The Rothschilds will probably be sending in some Mossad goons to make Canada an offer that it can't refuse.

----------


## wizardwatson

> The Rothschilds will probably be sending in some Mossad goons to make Canada an offer that it can't refuse.


Typically with politicians and priests that rarely goes beyond sex slaves.

----------


## phonetic lee

Here's another editorial agitating for the abolition of cash:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-and-bust.html

The entire article is remarkable, but here are a few clips:




> In this futuristic world ... notes and coins are abolished. Your current account will no longer be held with a bank, but with the government or the central bank.
> 
> To boost spending, the bank imposes a negative interest rate on the money in everyones account  in effect, a tax on saving. Faced with seeing their money slowly confiscated, people are more likely to spend it on goods and services.
> 
> At the moment its easy for individuals to avoid seeing their money eroded this way  they can simply hold banknotes .... But if notes and coins were abolished and the only way to hold money was through a *government-controlled* bank, there would be no escape.
> 
> Apart from the *control* over the economy, there would be many other advantages of a cashless society.
> 
> ... the black economy will be hugely diminished, and tax evasion made all but impossible.


No rational person would believe this is a good idea, but these are not rational people. Their motivation is a thirst to control other people.

That's why I doubt the Grand Conspiracy theories. It's really hard to formulate and execute a comprehensive, long-term plan when you believe 1+1 = 4.

----------


## Paul Or Nothing II

> Here's another editorial agitating for the abolition of cash:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-and-bust.html
> 
> The entire article is remarkable, but here are a few clips:
> 
> 
> 
> No rational person would believe this is a good idea, but these are not rational people. Their motivation is a thirst to control other people.
> ...


It's a stupid proposal by some economically illiterate idiots, & it will never work as intended. If the government gets rid of their cash-money from the economy, then some other alternative currencies will be used for the cash-transactions, a fine way for the government to make its money less marketable; negative interest rates will just cause more asset-bubbles. Nothing new, government's stupidity is unlimited!

Black-markets! Throwing a wrench in government's plans since the beginning of government itself!

----------


## phonetic lee

> Nothing new, government's stupidity is unlimited!


Pretty much, and today a German economist was in the headlines with a similar proposal. Germans are supposed to be the sensible ones because they're scarred by the memory of Weimar hyperinflation.

I do wonder about hidden motivations. Governments have accumulated huge debts. They could reduce debt through either austerity or default, but politically it's easier to simply print the money. Printing, however, can trigger a bond "revolt," driving up Treasury yields and negating the benefit to the government.

The likely government reaction then is to prop up the Treasury market by forcing assets into it. Restrictions may include nationalization of pension funds and foreign currency prohibition. Elimination of cash would facilitate the process. 

As I understand, the activity has been labeled "financial repression." The key is that the government is able to print without consequence to itself. The resultant consumer price increases are blamed on evil corporations, who raise prices because they hate America.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Here's another editorial agitating for the abolition of cash:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-and-bust.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> ...


The bolded above has got to be one of the stupidest things I have heard in, oh ... at least a week or two.

Under a "cashless" society as envisioned by the author, not only would the "black economy" flourish and thrive, it would very likely develop its own currencies - complete with exchange rates _vis-à-vis_ "government-controlled bank" money. And although the evasion of taxes levied upon the ones and zeros stored on "government-controlled bank" computers might indeed be significantly curtailed, the evasion of taxation upon actual wealth (you know - the stuff for which money merely serves as a medium of exchange, be it "government-controlled bank" money or "black economy" money) will hum right along ...

If anything, ridiculous schemes such as the above would ultimately serve to undermine the system's "control over the economy." John Gilmore famously said of the Internet that it "interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." The free market does the same thing with respect to the author's precious "control over the economy." They can certainly hamper and cripple the free market - sometimes quite seriously - but that is about all (though that is bad enough). But the more they do so, the more they expose as a futile delusion the notion that they can actually "control" the economy ...

----------


## TheCount

> Under a "cashless" society as envisioned by the author, not only would the "black economy" flourish and thrive, it would very likely develop its own currencies - complete with exchange rates _vis-à-vis_ "government-controlled bank" money.


Absolutely true.  Whatever the most-accepted item for barter is, that will immediately become a form of currency.  In American society?  My guess would be that it would be something pharmaceutical.  Perhaps:

----------


## devil21

Perception shift underway.  Also that burning to the ground threat I mentioned surfacing.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sor...war-2015-05-19




> “If there is conflict between China and a military ally of the United States, like Japan, then it is not an exaggeration to say that we are on the threshold of a third world war,” *Soros said*.
> 
> Military spending is on the rise in Russia and China, he said.
> 
> To avoid this scenario, Soros called on the U.S. to make a “major concession” and allow China’s currency to join the International Monetary Fund’s basket of currencies. This would make the yuan a potential rival to the dollar as a global reserve currency.
> 
> In return, China would have to make similar major concessions to reform its economy, such as accepting the rule of law, Soros said.
> 
> Allowing China’s yuan to be a market currency would create “a binding connection” between the two systems.
> ...

----------


## devil21

Looks like TPP (death of the international dollar as sole global reserve and how it affects trade and other issues) and Jade Helm (preparing for civil unrest during a banking shutdown, seizure of debt collateral and elimination of organized resistance) are parts of the grand plan.  If people can't tell by now that a lot of things are converging onto the same timeline then they're simply not paying attention.

----------


## devil21

bump

----------


## devil21

Another example of bankers suing themselves to trigger changes.  Greenberg's lawsuit was absurd in the first place so that can be the only explanation.  What CEO sues the entity that bailed him out from insolvency, claiming damages and that the bailout was illegal?  No damages awarded, of course, just a declaration that the Fed is in violation of law.  Violation of law is a trigger for dissolution of the Fed, per the Fed Act.

h/t to randomname for this thread
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...serve-Act-quot

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/bu...oney.html?_r=0




> WASHINGTON — When Maurice R. Greenberg, the former chief executive of the American International Group, brought a class-action lawsuit against the government in 2011, contending that the Federal Reserve overstepped its bounds when it bailed out his company at the height of the financial crisis, *the reaction was mainly befuddlement and outright ridicule.*


Others could consider it a case of "method to the madness".

--------------------------
Also, the Greek slow-crash was just announced as effectively becoming a case of debt repudiation.  Greece is the first domino that will officially kick-off the introduction of gold-backed currencies as Greece shifts out of the EU financial umbrella and under the BRICS umbrella.  BRICS will declare their gold holdings as the backing for the drachma.  More will follow.  I think we will be hearing the term "odious debt" often in the near future.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015...te-and-odious/




> The debt imposed on Greece and its residents by creditors directly infringes the human rights of Greeks and is “illegal, illegitimate and odious,” according to the preliminary report issued on Wednesday by the Audit Committee on Public Debt.
> 
> The Greek Parliament earlier released a six-page summary of the Committee’s preliminary findings during hearings conducted since April, when it was convened by Parliament President Zoe Konstantopoulou.
> 
> The summary stressed that the entire adjustment program imposed on Greece “was and remains a politically orientated program,” while challenged arguments that the policies imposed on Greece aimed to improve its capacity to pay back the debt.
> 
> It concluded that Greece was the victim of a “premeditated and organized” attack and of a “violent, illegal, and immoral mission” to shift private debt onto the public sector.


------------------
US National Debt still frozen.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tere...18112975000000




> That, according to the Treasury's statements, makes 90 straight days the debt subject to the limit has been frozen at $18,112,975,000,000.


---------------------
Rand introduces a Flat Tax replace payroll taxes.  It doesn't specifically say it replaces the income tax but that's generally what flat taxes do.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/firs...flat-tax-plan/

Expansion of Rand's flat tax proposal.  Either he and his staff is taking pointers from this thread or they've been told that the Fed and IRS, in their current forms, are going away.

http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-plan...041500518.html



> Calling it “The Fair and Flat Tax,” he says his plan will be equivalent to a $2 trillion tax cut “ that would *repeal the entire IRS tax code*—more than 70,000 pages—and replace it with a low, broad-based tax of 14.5% on individuals and businesses.


-----------------------------
New currency incoming.  Go read up on how the EU introduced the euro cash.  Pretty sure there will be a devaluation in some amount that coincides with a major gold announcement from BRICS.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/24...on-the-10-bill

-------------------------------
Many economic minds have said that when it starts, the changes will come fast and furious.  

The Fast and the Furious *7*, indeed.  It is speeding up    Be ready for anything.

----------


## devil21

Greece bump.

----------


## devil21

DOW closed at 1*7,77*6.91 on *7/7*.  Wild day on the markets....might start getting bumpy!

eta:  oops, don't mind that little hiccup on the nyse the following day

----------


## devil21

Another step toward yuan integration into the SDR basket.

London Metals Exchange to accept yuan as collateral for trading.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...nbi-collateral

----------


## TheCount

> Another step toward yuan integration into the SDR basket.
> 
> London Metals Exchange to accept yuan as collateral for trading.
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...nbi-collateral



What is your prediction as to what will happen when that occurs?

----------


## Zippyjuan

Haven't you heard the news? China is going to replace the US dollar with a gold backed yuan and all will be perfect in the world. No more inflation or unemployment or bubbles.  All jobs will be high paying and all prices will be low and falling forever.

----------


## devil21

> US National Debt still frozen.
> http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tere...18112975000000


How did I miss that?  Numerology of the frozen debt number reduces to *7*.  1+8+1+1+2+9+7+5+000000=34   3+4=7





> What is your prediction as to what will happen when that occurs?


Some stuff with the dollar.  Some stuff with the yuan.  Some stuff with gold.  You know, stuff.  What do you think will happen when the yuan is added to the SDR?  Let's hear your opinion.

----------


## Zippyjuan

What will happen? Not much. SDRs aren't even a real currency.

----------


## devil21

> What will happen? Not much. SDRs aren't even a real currency.


What do you think will happen to the yuan when it is added to the SDR?  What will happen to the dollar when the yuan is added?

Do you predict a reweighting that keeps the dollar as the dominant currency in the basket?

----------


## Zippyjuan

No way they let the new guy be the biggest partner.  Japan only has seven percent of the basket.  Probably give China some similar share- say five percent.  

Currently it is $US 47%, Euro 33%, Pound Sterling 12% and Japanese Yen 7% (numbers rounded off).  https://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/data/rms_sdrv.aspx

Total value of all SDRs in the world: $204 billion. 




> The SDR is neither a currency, nor a claim on the IMF. Rather, it is a potential claim on the freely usable currencies of IMF members. Holders of SDRs can obtain these currencies in exchange for their SDRs in two ways: first, through the arrangement of voluntary exchanges between members; and second, by the IMF designating members with strong external positions to purchase SDRs from members with weak external positions. In addition to its role as a supplementary reserve asset, the SDR serves as the unit of account of the IMF and some other international organizations.


http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/sdr.htm

----------


## devil21

> No way they let the new guy be the biggest partner.  Japan only has seven percent of the basket.  Probably give China some similar share- say five percent.


5% only eh?  A bold prediction indeed.  

However, you did not answer the rest of my questions so I will ask again.  Do you think the dollar will remain world reserve after the re-weight?  Do you see the dollar staying at 47%?

Btw, Japan is slowly turning into a radioactive wasteland so they become less relevant by the day.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Assuming they do join, what percent do you think China will get?  50%? Will they get a bigger share than the US dollar?

----------


## devil21

> Assuming they do join, what percent do you think China will get?  50%? Will they get a bigger share than the US dollar?


The NDB is the wildcard, given China's official (yet obviously 100% bs) declaration of only 1600t of gold holdings.  Where does gold truly play into the coming changes?  I'm thinking gold itself will be re-added to the SDR basket, thus making national currency weightings anyone's guess.  But it would be easy to predict 20% gold, 20% USD, 20% yuan, 20% euro, 10% pound, 10% yen.

----------


## Zippyjuan

There is absolutely no discussion on adding gold to SDRs.  Not gonna happen- no matter how much you want them to.  Unless you want to donate a few $billion in gold to them to use.  There is also no way they will give the Yuan the same weighting as the dollar and the Euro. The Americans and Europeans created the system and they run it.  




> The SDR was created by the IMF in 1969 to support the Bretton Woods fixed exchange rate system. A country participating in this system needed official reserves—government or central bank holdings of gold and widely accepted foreign currencies—that could be used to purchase the domestic currency in foreign exchange markets, as required to maintain its exchange rate. *But the international supply of two key reserve assets—gold and the U.S. dollar—proved inadequate for supporting the expansion of world trade and financial development that was taking plac*e. Therefore, the international community decided to create a new international reserve asset under the auspices of the IMF.


They could make more dollars but they could not make more gold so they dropped it.  




> Only a few years after the creation of SDRs, the Bretton Woods system collapsed and the major currencies shifted to a floating exchange rate regime. In addition, the growth in international capital markets facilitated borrowing by creditworthy governments. Both of these developments lessened the need for SDRs. However, more recently, the 2009 SDR allocations totaling SDR 182.6 billion have played a critical role in providing liquidity to the global economic system and supplementing member countries’ official reserves amid the global financial crisis.
> 
> *The SDR is neither a currency, nor a claim on the IMF.* Rather, it is a potential claim on the freely usable currencies of IMF members. Holders of SDRs can obtain these currencies in exchange for their SDRs in two ways: first, through the arrangement of voluntary exchanges between members; and second, by the IMF designating members with strong external positions to purchase SDRs from members with weak external positions. In addition to its role as a supplementary reserve asset, the SDR serves as the unit of account of the IMF and some other international organizations.


Besides announcing their gold reserves (which they just did), another requirement for China to join the IMF and SDRs is they will have to let their currency float and not peg it to the dollar and the Euro anymore. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0XD1LI20150416




> International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde earlier this year said it was a question of when, not if, China's yuan will be included in the SDR basket - currently made up of dollars, yen, pounds and euros.
> 
> The IMF is due to review the basket's composition later this year to assess whether any currencies meet its criteria, including being "freely usable," or convertible - seen as a key obstacle for the yuan, also known as the renminbi.
> 
> "The Chinese authorities know quite well what is desirable, what needs to be changed and improved in the monetary policy and in the financial sector in China," Lagarde said during a press conference on Thursday.
> 
> "And I believe what the Chinese authorities have actually indicated ... will naturally be conducive to *an assessment of whether or not the RMB (renminbi) is freely usable,* which is as you know one of the key criteria," she said.
> 
> *The first step in the IMF's review of the basket for the SDR, an international reserve asset, is an informal board meeting in May, followed by a formal review in the autumn.* Any changes would likely come into effect in January 2016, and can be passed by a simple majority.
> ...


The May meeting passed without discussing China so it won't happen early next year.  Nor has China unpegged their currency yet.

----------


## devil21

> There is absolutely no discussion on adding gold to SDRs.  Not gonna happen- no matter how much you want them to.  Unless you want to donate a few $billion in gold to them to use.  There is also no way they will give the Yuan the same weighting as the dollar and the Euro.
> 
> They could make more dollars but they could not make more gold so they dropped it.


We shall see.  And I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an actual SDR 'currency' revealed in the near future.  There are always movements in the background that not even the most astute media is privy to.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Who would use this currency?  (plus the fact that they would need a few trillion more than the $200 billion worth they currently have)?  It replaced the Dollar, then the SDR ceases to exist since it is comprised mostly of dollars. Ditto for Euros.  It can't replace the Euro because the Euro is one if the currencies it is made up of.  Maybe Greece could use them.

----------


## devil21

> Who would use this currency?  (plus the fact that they would need a few trillion more than the $200 billion worth they currently have)?  It replaced the Dollar, then the SDR ceases to exist since it is comprised mostly of dollars. Ditto for Euros.  It can't replace the Euro because the Euro is one if the currencies it is made up of.


Who would use the SDR?  Everyone that is directed to use it when it is introduced as a global currency, that's who.  We both know a global (digital) currency without ties to any particular country is the endgame.  (12-20-18 edit:  blockchain/bitcoin has since been introduced)

Stop talking about $XXXXXX 'dollars' as if that means something.  Same for the euro and other national currencies.  They are all illusions of value since none have any intrinsic worth and can be revalued at any moment.  This is especially true when the role of gold as money is reintroduced in some iteration.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Sorrry- that isn't going to happen. I know the gold selling websites like to push the idea but it has no serious consideration in the real world.

Gold backed yuan to replace dollar! (first assumes China wants a gold backed currency). 

No, SDRs will replace the dollar (but they can't since they are about half dollars- no dollars, no SDRs)

No- it will be a global digital currency- that is their endgame. Digital currency wouldn't need dollars or gold or SDRs or yuan. And given the troubles with the Euro- a global currency would have even worse problems and be harder to get passed and implemented.  Unless of course there was only one global government in charge of everything and everyone. 

The story keeps changing.

----------


## devil21

> Sorrry- that isn't going to happen. I know the gold selling websites like to push the idea but it has no serious consideration in the real world.
> 
> Gold backed yuan to replace dollar! (first assumes China wants a gold backed currency). 
> 
> No, SDRs will replace the dollar (but they can't since they are about half dollars- no dollars, no SDRs)
> 
> No- it will be a global digital currency- that is their endgame. Digital currency wouldn't need dollars or gold or SDRs or yuan. And given the troubles with the Euro- a global currency would have even worse problems and be harder to get passed and implemented.  Unless of course there was only one global government in charge of everything and everyone. 
> 
> The story keeps changing.


It's not changing.  It's just different stages of the plan.  I forget sometimes that you're only allowed to post what is in your approved talking points binder.

----------


## Zippyjuan

So which comes first?  Do you have a link to the whole plan? Who are the "they" behind the plan?

----------


## devil21

> So which comes first?  Do you have a link to the whole plan?


We watch this new gold market, together, yes?

----------


## TheCount

> We watch this new gold market, together, yes?


When should we start watching?

*Gold heads for longest weekly losing streak in 16 years*

----------


## devil21

Lots of developments lately, many in line with this thread.  Now every politician wants to talk about ending the IRS for real.

SecState Kerry says dollar reserve status hinges on Iran deal.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ran-Deal-Fails

(no, not really, but it makes for a good 'reason' for the masses to buy into what was already planned long ago.)

-------------------------

Colorado mine spill is another example of turning over mines to debt holders, as detailed earlier in this thread.  Spill wasn't accidental and it's not harmful to the ecosystem according to EPA, but it does make people want to relocate away from the mining areas due to claimed contamination of well water.  Whatever mines are in that area will be operational again soon, but with foreign corps like Rio Tinto controlling them.

-----------------------------
Debt still frozen after 150 days.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tere...18112975000000

----------


## devil21

Feast of the *Trump*ets, September 13-15.

9-29 is an interesting date to me.  This date is referenced twice in the House of Cards second season.

----------


## devil21

It's a very bad sign when bank cheerleaders like WSJ's Jon Hilsenrath start building an "anti-semitic" firewall against criticizing Goldman Sachs, the Fed and other bankers.  Very good reasons to criticize them can't be far away!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...-anti-semitism




> That much is undisputed. It is what Hilsenrath does next that left us and anyone else who read it stunned, when he ever so gently pivots the narrative so that any critique of Goldman Sachs immediately construed as, drumroll, anti-semitism.
> 
> "The Goldman blowback is a particularly challenging subject to understand and analyze. Taken to extremes, criticism of the firm, which was founded and built by Jewish Americans, smacks at times of anti-Semitism."


--------------------
Interesting that the IMF has officially rescheduled the yuan inclusion into the SDR until next year.  Assuming it's not a head fake for markets, I guess all the pieces aren't quite in place yet for that big step.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/yuans-inclu...conomy-1516428

Obviously the formal inclusion of the yuan into the SDR is a cornerstone of the dot-connecting events I've detailed in this thread.  If that cornerstone event is rescheduled, other events that facilitate it also could be rescheduled.  That's the catch of tracking banker moves....they can move events if there's too much attention.  The element of surprise is how perceptions are quickly changed....

----------


## devil21

Reset is underway.  Got metals?

----------


## devil21

'ISIS' plots another blow to the financial system in the name of bringing back gold backed money.  Sounds a lot like the banker plan the bankers been working toward, as I detailed in this thread.  The evidence trail of their plan is loooooong....

h/t to presence for the thread

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...nancial-System


eta:  when I started this thread, I hoped I was wrong and connecting dots that shouldn't be connected.  It doesn't look like I was.  Please be safe this September and October everyone.  And every September after....

----------


## Zippyjuan

I see you have moved the date farther into the future.  October now.

----------


## devil21

> I see you have moved the date farther into the future.  October now.


Or you could just thank me for being vigilant and putting a lot of time and research into helping other people be prepared.  That works too.  The government has been warning people to "Prepare" for years.  Some of us listened and want to help others, with no gain for ourselves.

----------


## devil21

US capitulates to yuan inclusion in SDR.  Looks like Soros' threat was taken seriously.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...e-currency-bid




> The Obama administration took a step toward backing China’s bid to have the yuan recognized as a global reserve currency, as the U.S. softened its insistence that the Chinese implement financial reforms to win support.
> 
> The International Monetary Fund is reviewing whether the yuan should be included in its Special Drawing Rights, a basket of reserve currencies used by the lender as a unit of account. After U.S. President Barack Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping met Friday in Washington, the two sides issued a statement saying the U.S. supports the inclusion of the yuan “provided the currency meets the IMF’s existing criteria in its SDR review,” a point Xi highlighted in his press conference with Obama.
> 
> much more at link, worth a read

----------


## devil21

I haven't updated this thread in a while but much of what I foresaw is coming to pass.  Much of it not in the US _yet_ but is in testbed status in the EU.  I think I was early on calling the "big event" in Chicago and possibly other Fed branch cities but I still very much expect Fed related fireworks in the near future.  _May 1_ has a lot of symbolic significance.  March 27 also.

A couple items from ZH today of interest:

New York Fed hacked, $100m allegedly stolen.  Probably not the end of such "hacks"...just getting warmed up.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...king-whos-next

Greek banks to charge 1.5% service fee to convert 500 euro note to smaller bills.  Expect that in the US but with the Benjamin.  I wrote earlier in this thread that the USD conversion from FRN to TRN would be a 8% fee (read: haircut).
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...s-smaller-ones

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Looks like TPP (death of the international dollar as sole global reserve and how it affects trade and other issues) and Jade Helm (preparing for civil unrest during a banking shutdown, seizure of debt collateral and elimination of organized resistance) are parts of the grand plan.  If people can't tell by now that a lot of things are converging onto the same timeline then they're simply not paying attention.


Whatever happened with that Jade Helm thing?  And what about September/ October? 




> 'ISIS' plots another blow to the financial system in the name of bringing back gold backed money.  Sounds a lot like the banker plan the bankers been working toward, as I detailed in this thread.  The evidence trail of their plan is loooooong....
> 
> h/t to presence for the thread
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...nancial-System
> 
> 
> eta:  when I started this thread, I hoped I was wrong and connecting dots that shouldn't be connected.  It doesn't look like I was. * Please be safe this September and October everyone*.

----------


## devil21

> Whatever happened with that Jade Helm thing?


It never ended.  I explained the basis of JH's action arm in both this thread and the yuuuuge JH thread in GenPol.  Kicking people off lands so it can be turned over to foreign corporations.  As far as I can tell, this is still ongoing (see:Malheur OR for an example).




> And what about September/ October?


It was the start of reset cycle that is underway, according to religious observance cycles.  I expected more overt fireworks at that time but things have progressively become more 'interesting' since then, don't you agree?  I don't think the fireworks are very far off though.

I'll take a miscalculation or two when I'm nailing most everything else.

----------


## devil21

Much insight here, if you can pick up what ANOTHER is laying down.  Not light reading and not for newbs to economics...but very worth the time to read.

GOLD
http://www.usagold.com/goldtrail/archives/another1.html

----------


## Zippyjuan

1997 posts on a gold forum? (about oil countries supposedly trading their oil for gold reserves thus taking gold from Western countries and manipulating the gold market).  From the link:




> As explained by ANOTHER, an opportunistic arrangement for massive physical gold acquisition among important petroleum producing and exporting nations could be comfortably facilitated within these astronomical trading volumes now being publicly revealed via the LBMA.* For the oil states this meant receiving real money (as opposed to government-sponsored paper) in payment for their depleting oil reserves.* For the industrialized countries, this meant a continuing supply of cheap oil to fuel the economic boom already in progress. These transactions were to be cleared through the bustling London gold market. Up until late 1996, the volumes were a tightly kept secret so "the deal" proceeded without the knowledge of the general public.
> 
> When the LBMA went public with its figures, it raised the shroud off "the deal." But by then, according to ANOTHER, it no longer mattered. *The oil states had already (almost inadvertently) cornered the gold market*. As implied by ANOTHER's own words, his motivation for these postings was the discovery by "big traders" in the Far East of this opportune facility to buy gold at ever lower prices.* Their subsequent heavy purchases of physical gold upset the delicate balance. Now there was no longer a reason to keep it secret, and hence, the revelation of this extraordinary tale*.


Saudi Arabia was the #1 oil country at that time.  What was happening with their gold reserves?  

http://www.24hgold.com/english/stat_...eid=19576B1670

1989 they had 143 tons. 
1990 they had 143 tons. 
1991 they had 143 tons. 
1992 they had 143 tons.
1993 they had 143 tons. 
1994 they had 143 tons. 
1995 they had 143 tons. 
1996 they had 143 tons. 
1997 they had 143 tons. 
1998 they had 143 tons. 

2009 they had 143 tons. 

Not seeing a lot of accumulation happening. Did they virtually "corner" the gold market? I don't see it. (by comparison, the US has over 8,000 tonnes of gold reserves). 

But then again- they aren't presented as facts. 




> If his "THOUGHTS!" are theory; they are good theory. If they are speculation; they are reasonable speculation. If they are supposition; they are well-grounded supposition.

----------


## devil21

> 1997 posts on a gold forum?


Yes!  Isn't it grand?  Back when the net wasn't infested with disinfo agents, shills, trolls and bots.   Valuable information was freely exchanged with minimal disruption.  Imagine that!




> (about oil countries supposedly trading their oil for gold reserves thus taking gold from Western countries and manipulating the gold market).  From the link:
> 
> Saudi Arabia was the #1 oil country at that time.  What was happening with their gold reserves?  
> 
> http://www.24hgold.com/english/stat_...eid=19576B1670
> 
> 1989 they had 143 tons. 
> 1990 they had 143 tons. 
> 1991 they had 143 tons. 
> ...


Gold doesn't change value.  Only imaginary currencies change in relation to gold and other commodities.  However, there's no way you read that entire exchange already, plus I don't think anyone trusts nor cares how much gold the Saudis claim they have/had officially.  Corporate governments and banks lie as a matter of business.  

Much important insight into metals markets (and how it ties to oil) is at that link and helps greatly in breaking out of the "how much does it cost?" fake money programming that everyone receives from birth.  The info at that link is very important to understand right now as global markets undergo major changes.  Well worth the time to read twice and comprehend.

----------


## devil21

Rats fleeing a sinking ship?  Perhaps the phone calls to certain elites/insiders that seem to precede events have started being made....

Millionaires leaving *Chicago* by the thousands
http://www.dcclothesline.com/2016/04...ds/#more-58844

Also, China's yuan denominated gold market is set to open April 19!

----------


## TheCount

Is it October yet?

----------


## devil21

> Is it October yet?


Oh look, The$#@! is still trolling RPF and trying to derail threads.

What do you think will happen when China sets a gold price?  Or is a productive dialogue outside of your professional purview?

----------


## TheCount

> What do you think will happen when China sets a gold price?


I don't particularly think that government prices for goods mean anything.

----------


## devil21

> I don't particularly think that government prices for goods mean anything.


So no changes to anything then?  Gold is still just gold, isn't it?

----------


## Ronin Truth

*canada debt based money system*

About 4,410,000 results(0.55 seconds) 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...d+money+system

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Oh look, The$#@! is still trolling RPF and trying to derail threads.
> 
> *What do you think will happen when China sets a gold price?*  Or is a productive dialogue outside of your professional purview?


How and why is China going to set a gold price? Have they cornered the market of gold so they can command the price it sells for?

----------


## devil21

> How and why is China going to set a gold price? Have they cornered the market of gold so they can command the price it sells for?


Do you have any serious questions?  How and why?  Really?  

http://www.bulliondesk.com/gold-news...ources-109581/

----------


## Zippyjuan

That is not setting a price.  It is setting up their own exchange for gold to be traded in yuan. Will it impact the global price of gold?  No.

http://www.kitco.com/news/2016-02-25...wo-Months.html




> Dahdah added China, even if it does launch a yuan-gold benchmark, will still have a long way to go to overtake the influences London and New York have in the global gold market. He added that he doesn’t see a lot of international financial institutions participating in the yuan fix.
> 
> “I think this is going to be more of a domestic market,” he said. “International companies will be hesitant to join the fix as there are still some legality issues in China and question of how potential disputes would be resolved,”

----------


## devil21

> That is not setting a price.  It is setting up their own exchange for gold to be traded in yuan.


Gold's value doesn't change.  Only currency values change in relation to gold.  If the PBOC declares the yuan (and/or their securities) to be gold backed, you can't seriously think that will have no impact on anything.  It's also a physical market instead of the fakery known as COMEX.  




> Will it impact the global price of gold?  No.


In what currency?  All of them?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> It's also a physical market instead of the fakery known as COMEX.


Shanghai Gold Exchange (which will be handling the market) is the Chinese version of COMEX. They both work the same way. http://www.marketswiki.com/wiki/Shanghai_Gold_Exchange

----------


## Ronin Truth

Don't forget the Rothschilds and the City of London.

*gold Rothschild City of London

*About 513,000 results

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...31.ZguOJjAkX84

----------


## TheCount

> So no changes to anything then?  Gold is still just gold, isn't it?


No long-term changes based on a government price for a good... if the price is too high or too low, then arbitrage will occur until either the government runs out of money or gold.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> instead of the fakery known as COMEX.



https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ko...rawal-figures/




> *China Stops Publishing SGE Withdrawal Figures*


(SGE being the Shanghai Gold Exchange)




> SGE Withdrawals Not Disclosed In Most Recent Data
> 
> But hiding the reports was not enough for the Chinese gold market architects. Apparently, the publishing of SGE withdrawals had to be discontinued, as it simply attracted too much attention to the true size of the Chinese physical gold market. The (Chinese) Market Data Weekly Reports on the first two trading weeks of 2016 at the SGE listed no withdrawal figures.





> When I called the SGE I was told the “load-out volume” (withdrawals) *will not be published anymore*, a statement that matches the new reports. This is a disaster for the gold community. SGE withdrawals provided a unique transparent metric for Chinese gold demand and it’s gone. However, the fact the Chinese stopped publishing SGE withdrawals once again strongly confirms the importance of these numbers from the past! Until December 2015 these numbers gave us a direct measure of Chinese wholesale gold demand. The truth became a little uncomfortable for the Chinese.
> 
> *Ah well, I guess I’ll be focusing more on other gold markets from now on*

----------


## devil21

^^^^
Hey Zip, did you even read the link you posted?  Perhaps you missed the *bolded*, underlined and CAPITALIZED March 2016 update at the top.

UPDATE 11 MARCH 2016: THE SGE HAS CONFIRMED TO CONTINUE PUBLISHING SGE WITHDRAWALS! 
https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ko...withdraw-data/ 




> I’ve received written confirmation by the Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) delivery department that the Chinese Market Data Monthly Reports disclose the volume of physical gold withdrawn from SGE designated vaults. I’m thrilled to resume reporting these numbers and everything related to the Chinese gold market!


Nice try though.  Somebody give Zip some neg rep for bullshittin, please.  I'm out of ammo at the moment.

----------


## TheCount

Bumping this thread of the last two years' crash predictions in order to add next year's crash predictions.

----------


## devil21

Thanks for the bump TheCount!  So much of what I posted on page 1 is happening right now!  I've learned so much more since posting this thread.  I think we are experiencing the end of the bankruptcy of US Inc.  IOW, the bankruptcy of the early 1930s is finally being discharged (along with many other countries that were declared bankrupt at same time).  The catch is that the bankers will try to bankrupt us again within a year or two (history repeats and usually involves pushing us into expensive wars) but this time phasing out all tangible wealth like cash.  Big changes underway since the entire global finance system has been based on those bankruptcies.  Interesting times!

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## Zippyjuan

> The catch is that the bankers will try to bankrupt us again within a year or two


Been hearing that since 2007 at least.

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## devil21

bump

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## devil21

bumpity bump bump

Somethin' about a Shield catches my attention.

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## TheCount

Any day now, right?

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Any day now, right?



What's that?  You leaving?

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## devil21

> Any day now, right?


Yup, looking that way.  Curious power outages today, no?  I recall writing something earlier in this thread about watching cities with Fed branches...

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## LibForestPaul

> No court ruling will end fiat currencies. The only thing that will end fiat currency is when price inflation gets unbearable.


International Banking Cartel regime change will end fiat currency.

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## TheCount

> International Banking Cartel regime change will end fiat currency.


Countries that are not part of the international banking system also have fiat currencies.

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## devil21

IMF could be based in Beijing in a decade, says Lagarde
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1A922L

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## devil21

bump.  A thread for those that wish to read something more informative than the latest Trump shill propaganda threads.

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## TheCount

> Any day now, right?


Still.

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## devil21

bumpity bump

predictions lookin' pretty good lately.  

Trump positioning to be the white knight that takes on (and vanquishes, perception-wise) the Fed. 

Also, for a little tinfoil hat dot connecting, anyone else noticing how the original Die Hard is suddenly a big thing again?  I called attention to (Bruce) Willis Tower in this thread years ago.  Building is owned now by Blackstone (who bought it from "pull-it" Silverstein) and just finished some major renovations (very 9/11 WTC-esque).  Film is very 9/11-esque, also.  The whole series is.  Some numerological references in the film could be of relevance soon, also.  Like I said, avoid Chicago if at all possible.  You won't find me in any crowded place on NYE this year...

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## DamianTV

Perhaps Trump baited the Fed to hang itself?  IF the Fed gets called out on intentionally trying to crash the economy again, then there will be enough support for people to actively want the Fed dismantled?

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## devil21

H.R.25 - bill to end income taxes, IRS, enact national sales tax instead - 27 cosponsors
"To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States."

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...e-bill/25/text

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## Zippyjuan

> H.R.25 - bill to end income taxes, IRS, enact national sales tax instead - 27 cosponsors
> "To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States."
> 
> https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...e-bill/25/text


If they add a sales tax, it would most likely be in addition to- not in place of- the income tax. 

But let's play the numbers game.  Let's assume you keep spending where it is now ($4 trillion) and get rid of all taxes and replace them with a sales tax.  What were retail sales last year?  $5.48 trillion.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-retail-sales/

So to raise $4 trillion on $5.48 trillion in sales, *your sales tax would need to be 73%*.  That is if you taxes everything.  If you leave off things like food, the rate will have to be higher.  And since that raises the costs to the consumer on everything by that much, retail sales will drop considerably so the tax would have to be well over 100%. And since most people owe net zero in income taxes, the majority of the population would see their tax burden rise significantly.

That means that everything you buy will cost more than twice what it does right now. Sounds like a good deal, right?  And fair.  (Actually the wealthy spend less of their money buying stuff so their tax burden would be lower than that of those at lower incomes who spend significantly higher portions of their income on goods and services).

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## devil21

Quite obviously spending would not stay where it is, $4T+, since the Fed is losing the ability to export the excess inflation to the rest of the world via the petrodollar global reserve standard.

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## Zippyjuan

> Quite obviously *spending would not stay where it is, $4T+*, since the Fed is losing the ability to export the excess inflation to the rest of the world via the petrodollar global reserve standard.


You are right- it is probably going even higher. Which party is going to start cutting spending?   The Republicans only talk about it when they are not in power.  They gave up the idea of actually trying to do anything about it after Bush lost for saying "no new taxes" and got beat in the next election. They didn't cut anything during the time they ran the entire government.

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## devil21

> You are right- it is probably going even higher. Which party is going to start cutting spending?   The Republicans only talk about it when they are not in power.  They gave up the idea of actually trying to do anything about it after Bush lost for saying "no new taxes" and got beat in the next election. They didn't cut anything during the time they ran the entire government.


You're probably right that spending would go up in the shorter term, to extinguish old debt and kill the dollar at the same time.

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## Zippyjuan

> You're probably right that spending would go up in the shorter term,* to extinguish old debt* and kill the dollar at the same time.


Spending money does not "extinguish debt".  You extinguish debt by taking in more in taxes than you spend and putting that money towards the debt.

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## devil21

> Spending money does not "extinguish debt".  You extinguish debt by taking in more in taxes than you spend and putting that money towards the debt.


FRNs could be replaced by sovereign notes and the sovereign notes used to pay the FRN debt.

$22T denomination sovereign note presented to the Fed sounds good to me.  Just make it one really big paper currency note, like a Publisher's Clearinghouse "check".  That would have as much inherent value as the $22T they "loaned" us and I'd pay to watch that pay-off ceremony.

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## Zippyjuan

> FRNs could be replaced by sovereign notes and the sovereign notes used to pay the FRN debt.
> 
> *$22T denomination sovereign note presented to the Fed sounds good to me.*  Just make it one really big paper currency note, like a Publisher's Clearinghouse "check".  That would have as much inherent value as the $22T they "loaned" us and I'd pay to watch that pay-off ceremony.


You can buy out all of the Fed's US Government debt holdings with only $2.2 trillion since that is how much they have in US Treasuries.  The other $20 trillion would still be outstanding since it is held by other people/ organizations. 

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

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## devil21

> You can buy out all of the Fed's US Government debt holdings with only $2.2 trillion since that is how much they have in US Treasuries.  The other $20 trillion would still be outstanding since it is held by other people/ organizations. 
> 
> https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/


All of that $22T originated from the Federal Reserve System since the Treasury currently does not exercise ability to print sovereign currency, so the debt is ultimately owed to the Fed from which it all came.  Every last penny of that $22T is denominated in their private currency.  The Fed could be considered the first lien holder on all of it.  The holders of debt instruments are merely holders in due course.

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## Zippyjuan

> All of that $22T originated from the Federal Reserve System since the Treasury currently does not exercise ability to print sovereign currency, so the debt is ultimately owed to the Fed from which it all came.  Every last penny of that $22T is denominated in their private currency.  The Fed could be considered the first lien holder on all of it.  The holders of debt instruments are merely holders in due course.


There is no "lien" on US Government debt. It is unsecured.  Debt is issued by the US Treasury.  You could give them the $22 trillion and they could try to buy back the notes from holders.

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## devil21

nm.  Want to keep this thread uncluttered.

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## Zippyjuan

> Just came across this video.  It sounds important.   (and make sure you read post #4 in this thread and the rest of the thread.)


Comer's case was dismissed in 2017.

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## TheCount

Still waiting.

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## Zippyjuan

> Still waiting.


"Soon".

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## devil21

> Still waiting.





> "Soon".

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## devil21

Major IRS overhaul in the works
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...5zL?ocid=ientp




> The agency’s goal: A taxpayer shouldn’t owe or be owed come tax time.  more

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## Zippyjuan

> Major IRS overhaul in the works
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...5zL?ocid=ientp


They aren't changing taxes, just withholding.  They don't want to have to issue any refunds.  Some people like the refund- they use it as a "forced saving plan" for money they can use on a splurge- fix up the house, buy a car or other things, go on a vacation. 




> But wait, the law isn’t done with you. There’s another complication coming out later this year: The Internal Revenue Service is changing how you adjust your paycheck withholdings, and early indicators show it won’t be easy.
> 
> The agency plans to release* a new W-4 form that better incorporates the changes ushered in by the new tax law so that the amount held back for taxes in each of your paychecks is more accurate.*
> 
> The agency’s goal: A taxpayer shouldn’t owe or be owed come tax time.

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## devil21

^^^^
Incremental change toward the bigger one.  That's always how it's done.  Get people used to not paying or getting refunds at the end of the year.  Then the next step of entirely changing the IRS's role comes.

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## devil21

News falling in line with my "predictions" (heh  ) is coming quickly.  Time for a bump.

IRS going away, gold nominees to Fed, dollar devaluation talk, etc


(The statement in post 4 about Rand being installed to keep the right pacified was wrong but very close.  It was Trump.  And he's their PR man.)

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## Warrior_of_Freedom

> Somebody neg rep TheCount on my behalf please.  He's on my ignore list but always posts something stupid in any comment directly after mine.


I physically can't, his avatar is willy wonka

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## devil21

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...n-fed-cut-week




> In a brief 45 seconds, Liesman drops the "existential" threat argument for why Powell will do whatever it takes to stay in Trump's good graces...
> 
>     "If The Fed gets this wrong, I think that they think if they make a mistake here, The Fed could be gone..."
> 
> Liesman expands on his ominous view:
> 
>     "Think about what happens when a person gets up at a rally and starts railing against The Federal Reserve, and starts to create what could lead to Congressional pressure on The Fed, then you could imagine that their could be support for a different system."
> 
>     "I think they think there's a lot of political downside risk to getting this wrong."

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## Zippyjuan

> https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...n-fed-cut-week
> 
> "If The Fed gets this wrong, I think that they think if they make a mistake here,* The Fed could be gone..*."


Trump can't get rid of the Fed. Only Congress can.  If the Fed raises rates, it will be because Trump's trade wars are slowing the US and global economies.  He should be glad they are going to at least partly bail him out (which is what he wants).  He is already saying any cut will be "too little".

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