# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  Giving up alcohol, any advice?

## Keith and stuff

Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.

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## oyarde

I have done it a few times for weeks, months, years and can do it more easily now when I choose too , although, work days are a bit rough .Other days, easy. I just found something else to drink , I do most of my drinking at home.I just get water instead.

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## torchbearer

don't buy it, don't keep it in the house, don't hang out with people who are drinking and don't go places where people are drinking.
for about 28 days.

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## presence

> Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.



They had something they were selling in Colorado and Washington; they say it helps.

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## Keith and stuff

> don't buy it, don't keep it in the house, don't hang out with people who are drinking and don't go places where people are drinking.
> for about 28 days.


Thanks for the advice so far, everyone. Try doing this particular piece of advice all this month.

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## liberty2897

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


I'm joining you on this!  I started a couple of months ago.  I've had a few beers in that time, but I set Jan 1 as my goal and here it is!  I'm finding that cannabis is helping.  I just don't feel like drinking after smoking.  I know it is replacing one thing with another, but I'm finding that cannabis is a much better way to relax.  It has other benefits besides relaxation.   Something to consider anyway...

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## Confederate

My advice: don't if you don't have to. Learn to moderate your intake. I used to drink quite heavily, but over the last 2 years I've cut back to maybe 2 beers a week. Didn't drink at all this New Years.

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## Matt Collins

My advice? Reconsider your decision 


But seriously, what is your motivation here?

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## presence

Go on a diet; one small glass of wine or one speciality beer every night before bed... nothing more nothing less for a month.

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## TheTexan

You could put a $#@!load of spices and random $#@! in your liquor bottles so it tastes awful

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## mrsat_98

when the desire to drink comes along eat something sweet. Ice Cream sandwiches worked in hot weather for me. The real kicker was making jokes about the sheriffs deputy that told me one more sip and I would be going to jail. I always look for him when someone offers me a beer.  Cannabis helps.

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## HigherVision

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


My advice is to not do it.

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## cjm

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.





> My advice? Reconsider your decision :p
> 
> 
> But seriously, what is your motivation here?


Matt makes a good point here.  When I was younger, I used to drink a fair amount, but gave it up (among other things) for Lent each year.  Given the nature of that particular abstention, my motivation was strong enough on its own to see me through forty days and nights.  If your motivation is strong enough, you shouldn't need much help.

If the motivation is shaky, and you just need tips, I'd say that exercise and/or athletic competition helps curtail the desire for alcohol.  When I'm done with work for the day, I like to have a beer or glass of wine with dinner.  But if I know that I'm heading back out to play basketball at 8pm, I don't drink during dinner.  Not because I _think_ it will effect my game, but because I _know_ it will.  The difference is that I'm not fighting an urge in this example, I truly have no desire for alcohol if I want to play ball later.  The performance is more important than the enjoyment of the beer.

When I get home at 10pm however, I'll have that beer.  So at that point you're on your own.  :)

Hope this helps.  Good luck!

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## amonasro

Marijuana helps. Also not having it in the house.

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## John F Kennedy III

> I'm joining you on this!  I started a couple of months ago.  I've had a few beers in that time, but I set Jan 1 as my goal and here it is!  I'm finding that cannabis is helping.  I just don't feel like drinking after smoking.  I know it is replacing one thing with another, but I'm finding that cannabis is a much better way to relax.  It has other benefits besides relaxation.   Something to consider anyway...


Cannabis is definitely medicinal in several ways and won't wreck your liver. It's a far better choice. ESPECIALLY if it's hard liquor your quitting.

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## John F Kennedy III

Donnay is my go to dude () for health advice.

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## John F Kennedy III

> My advice is to not do it.

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## HigherVision

> I'm joining you on this!  I started a couple of months ago.  I've had a few beers in that time, but I set Jan 1 as my goal and here it is!  I'm finding that cannabis is helping.  I just don't feel like drinking after smoking.  I know it is replacing one thing with another, but I'm finding that cannabis is a much better way to relax.  It has other benefits besides relaxation.   Something to consider anyway...


That's why you gotta get the alcohol in you first, then smoke. Live it up people, the next few years are gonna be sketchy. Just don't get arrested.

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## HigherVision

> 


Bob Newhart's funny as hell. Thanks for posting that, so much good stuff from the past.

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## driller80545

I quit 20 years ago. All I remember about it is saying goodbye to the people that I used to get drunk with. Couldn't have it both ways.

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## Tpoints

> Thanks for the advice so far, everyone. Try doing this particular piece of advice all this month.


how much did you drink? and how did you get it?

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## FunkBuddha

Change your perspective. You're not "giving up" alcohol. Make a list of the negative ways alcohol impacts your life. Those are the things you're "giving up."

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## fisharmor

> You could put a $#@!load of spices and random $#@! in your liquor bottles so it tastes awful


This is already a ready-made product:

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## kathy88

Be ready for the sugar cravings. I lived on donuts and coffee for a month when I quit.

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## presence

> You could put a $#@!load of spices and random $#@! in your liquor bottles so it tastes awful



Now that's alcohol abuse.  Reported.

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## brandon

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


If you think you have a serious alcohol problem and can't easily quit, you could try the Sinclair Method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Method

I don't know if this really works but a lot of people say it does. I only thought of it because you mentioned supplements.

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## fisharmor

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


On a serious note, I think it's already been said that you're not giving up booze, you're giving up a whole life.

But here's hope for you.

In 2006, before I had my first kid, I decided I wasn't going to have my kids have a smoker for a dad.  So I quit.
From 2006-2010 I didn't smoke except for one every year at a party.  I actually started jogging and got into shape.  And I started to see what life is like without the butts.

Then in 2010 I changed departments at work and started hanging out with smokers again.  But here's the thing: I can manage it now, so I can turn it on and off.
I will not go home smelling like smoke.  So if someone invites me out after 2pm, no thanks.
I don't smoke more than a half a pack a week at MOST, and I alternate weeks that I'll go smoke and weeks where I don't.  If I have more than that, or if I keep it going, then my body starts to tell me that I'm going too far.

But if I didn't have that 4 year total hiatus, I never would have learned what it's like to be a nonsmoker.
If you're used to doing something every day, like drink, or smoke, or get high (yes this counts too, I've done the same thing there before), you're running your body on a different energy.
You need to cut out that energy and get back to the energy you're supposed to be using, because you've totally forgotten what that feels like.
And going back to it is scary - it's unknown, and lacks the comfort of the thing you're running on now.  And if you're anything like me, the thought of being so _clean_ kind of gets to you.

Clean energy isn't just for libtards.  Once you get back to running your body on it, you're going to wonder how you ever dumped that much booze down your gullet.  And you _should_ be able to get to the point where you can have a drink every week or so and then _put it down and not think about it._

And let's be honest, that's really your goal.  Nobody quits drinking because they want to quit altogether: they just want to stop having negative effects.
That's entirely possible, but you need to learn how not to rely on it.  And that unfortunately takes time.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


Having quit a few bad habits I can say there really isn't any advice to be given. You have to be strong mentally. Keep track of days and remind yourself of the progress. Some people say quit hanging around with certain friends and that's true.. in the instance that said friend tries to pressure you to revert to your old ways. I never quit anything completely cold turkey. I weaned myself down over the course of a few weeks. After three days of not smoking I was pretty jittery and would crave for a cigarette every now and again. When I drank I would smoke. After my body became accustomed to not smoking I quit craving a cigarette after a shot of liqour or sex. I started realizing what people meant when they said cigarette smoke smells like $#@!. It really does, though when I was addicted to nicotine I found the smell quite refreshing. (It didn't bother me one bit) The bottom line is if you're mentally determined to quit you will quit. I can be around people smoking cigarettes and have been offered a few (even when drunk) and I'm still steadfast in not smoking. Though lately I've been drinking like a fish.

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## kcchiefs6465

> [SNIPPED]Cannabis helps.


Yeah, depending on your job situation cannabis definitely helps and has a lot less side effects when quitting. I don't really think I could quit everything. When I wasn't drinking I was smoking weed. When I wasn't smoking weed I was drinking. When I was neither smoking or drinking I was taking Xanax. I've been in an altered state of reality for quite some time now. So much so that I feel and act normal when drunk or high. I know, I have a problem. If the general society would not criminalize and ostracize me for my casual drug use it would not be an issue. (alcohol included in the vague term 'drug') I doubt if you seen me you would be able to tell.

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## NCGOPer_for_Paul

The OP hasn't gone into a lot of detail here, as to whether he feels as if he's addicted to alcohol and feels like a drunk, or if it's a decision just not to drink at all even if there isn't a problem, or something in between.

If it's the latter, unless you feel you have a problem, don't completely give it up.  There are a lot of good beers and wines out there that are well worth drinking.  Best advice I can give up is drink QUALITY.  I have never been a big drinker, but do like a beer or some wine every now and then.  Since about 2005, I really have only bought microbrews, and it's gotten to the point where I can't choke down a Bud, Miller, or Coors product, and if I'm at a place that only offers those choices, I drink water or a Coke.

I don't drink hard stuff, so I can't offer any advice there.

If it's the former, get help, professional help.

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## TonySutton

What is the driver behind wanting to stop drinking?

I drank a lot when I first joined the Marines.  Like the first 6-7 years.  I didn't drink at work or at home but would go out drinking.  Typically my reason for stopping each evening was because the bars closed and I needed to get sleep before heading for work.  I never drank while working, mainly because I worked on helicopters and did not want to kill someone.  After I married and then had kids I pretty much stopped drinking.  I will have a beer when visiting someone or when going out to eat but otherwise I rarely buy any booze and bring it home.  I had a Halloween party in October so I bought some booze then and several guests donated bottles.  Most of what was not consumed at the party is still sitting on my kitchen counter in the corner.  I don't even think about it.  Once a week I might toss a shot into some juice but that is about it.

For me alcohol was a way to socialize.  I am a bit shy around new people.  Once I had a family and had other things to do the alcohol wasn't needed.  

My suggestion to you is to determine why you need the alcohol then you can determine how to minimize it in your life.

Both my father and his brother (my uncle) call themselves alcoholics.  They both needed AA to break the addiction.  My uncle has been sober since the mid 70's and my father was sober from the early 90's until his death 6 years ago.

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## erowe1

Try AA, or something similar. Seriously.

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## JK/SEA

> don't buy it, don't keep it in the house, don't hang out with people who are drinking and don't go places where people are drinking.
> for about 28 days.


yep..this....

also, any booze in the house?...dump it. All of it. Thats only if your serious.

I went cold turkey after people started telling me what i did when i was hammered, and couldn't remember any of it. I was starting to black out while conscious. Not good. Went 8 years without so much as a beer. My Dad, rest his soul, finally talked me into having a beer with him after those 8 years, and i now watch my intake carefully.

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## klamath

Is there really anything that drinking does _good_ for your life?
Is there anything in your life that you wanted but could never afford? If there is start putting your beer budget toward that thing. My father drank a lot in his younger days. One day he looked at the new house the liqueur store owner owned and then looked at the adobe house he was renting. they both started out at the same level. My father quit and never went back.

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## AFPVet

If you're trying to stop drinking, stop smoking. Smoking has a symbiotic relationship with alcohol. To quit alcohol, you have to put yourself in situations where people aren't drinking. Stop buying it. 

If you're in a state where cannabis is legal, start putting it into brownies and use that to take the edge off.

As for me, a glass or two of wine every now and then is good... small amounts of wine have also been proven to extend your lifespan. http://www.naturalnews.com/026207_li...xpectancy.html

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## cjm

> Is there really anything that drinking does _good_ for your life?


http://www.benefitsofbeer.com/




> Is there anything in your life that you wanted but could never afford? If there is start putting your beer budget toward that thing. My father drank a lot in his younger days. One day he looked at the new house the liqueur store owner owned and then looked at the adobe house he was renting. they both started out at the same level. My father quit and never went back.


This is very true.  If you take the time to draw up a budget for your house and look to see where your money is going, even a drink or two per day is a non-trivial amount of money.  Like klamath says, that's real money that could be going somewhere else.  Personally, I've decided that the money I currently spend on (craft) beer is an acceptable expense.  But I have to admit that after I started a budget and saw the numbers, I reduced the amount allocated for beer.

EDIT:  Example numbers for 2 craft beers a day -- $8 six pack  x 2 six packs per week x 52 weeks = $832/year.  If you drop that to one beer per day, you free up $416 which (until recently?) could get you an SKS and some ammo.  Budgets are good things.

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## jmdrake

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


I haven't had to deal with alcohol, but I am dealing with a different addition.  I would suggest getting the book The Power of Habit and considering AA if alcohol is having a serious negative impact on your life.  Also Kudzu, which is all over the place in the south east, has been shown to be effective against alcohol cravings.

This is kudzu.

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## Acala

Work on heightening your awareness of the body sensations that accompany the desire to drink.  Get very specific about where in your body you feel the cravings, when the sensations arise, do they move or change, etc.  Become an expert in the subtle details of your own physical craving.  And at the same time, don't fight the experience of the craving.  Don't ACT on the craving, but don't try to suppress the body sensations.  Let the sensations of craving - strong or subtle - manifest fully while you watch carefully without interfering.  This is the best way to root out the craving.  It will be hard at first.  It might seem like the craving is going to eat you alive.  But it will get easier over time and then you will be done forever.   

Oh, and a 12 step program can help too.

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## Confederate

> This is kudzu.


No, I think that's a Honda.

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## Czolgosz

A little late to this thread.

Have you asked yourself why you consume more alcohol than desired?  Knowing the answer will help make fundamental changes a more positive and lasting experience.

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## jmdrake

> No, I think that's a Honda.


Both are imports from Japan.

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## back2basics

try LCD, cures alcoholism

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## cjm

> try LCD, cures alcoholism


Most people I know tend to drink _more_ when in front of the LCD.

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## dannno

> Try AA, or something similar. Seriously.


I would say try anything BUT joining that cult.

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## Confederate

> I would say try anything BUT joining that cult.


Why?

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## back2basics

> Most people I know tend to drink _more_ when in front of the LCD.


lol touche.

LSD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD#Alcoholism

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## dannno

> Why?


http://www.southparkstudios.com/full...14-bloody-mary

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## jmdrake

> http://www.southparkstudios.com/full...14-bloody-mary


Oh let the great wise sages of SouthPark guide you.    Danno you can't be serious.  Then again seeing the nutty stuff you've posted in the past....

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## fisharmor

> Oh let the great wise sages of SouthPark guide you.    Danno you can't be serious.  Then again seeing the nutty stuff you've posted in the past....


My sister and nephew are in AA.  It's a cult.
Penn and Teller did a Bull$#@!! episode on it too.  Couldn't find anyone to produce any science on it.
If it ain't scientific and you still believe it works, well, you can do the math there.

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## youngbuck

I have this book and have used it successfully:  http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Weeks-So...ks+to+sobriety

Your #1 top supplement to stop alcohol cravings is the amino acid L-Glutamine.  
You also want to take a B-100 supplement.  

If you have a problem with sleeping/insomnia, some Tryptophan or 5-HTP along with some L-Theanine before bed may help a lot.  

Avoid sugar, simple carbohydrates, coffee/caffeine, nicotine, and other things that may further screw up neurotransmitters.  Eat plenty of whole foods, drink a lot of water, and a whey protein shake in between meals can help immensely.  

You have to COMMIT to abstinence, otherwise it's extremely easy to fall back into drinking a lot again. 

You may also find some information of interest here:  http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/a...ism-000002.htm

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## dannno

> *Oh let the great wise sages of SouthPark guide you.*   Danno you can't be serious.  Then again seeing the nutty stuff you've posted in the past....


Meh, they are usually spot on about 97% of the time..

Have you been to an AA meeting before? I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult. He didn't say before because he wanted me to actually go and see it for myself. 

The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.

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## Confederate

> The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.


You obviously have never had a real alcoholic in your family.

Say the same thing about heroin and you'll see how ridiculous your statement is.

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## erowe1

> I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult.


I don't think the people who only go because the court orders them to go are the ones it works for.

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## jmdrake

> My sister and nephew are in AA.  It's a cult.
> Penn and Teller did a Bull$#@!! episode on it too.  Couldn't find anyone to produce any science on it.
> If it ain't scientific and you still believe it works, well, you can do the math there.


Penn and Teller should do a Bull$#@! episode on themselves.  While there is no "science" involved with AA, addiction scientists have picked up on the methods and used them.  Read the book "The Power of Habit" to understand and quit watching crap on TV.  Because of the anonymous nature of AA it's hard to measure the results.  But the methods they use of having a group where you feel safe to divulge your past to because they are "just like you" helps people with various addictions recognize their "triggers" (when they are weak) and deal with them.

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## jmdrake

> Meh, they are usually spot on about 97% of the time..


So I take it you bought into their attack on truthers too?  




> Have you been to an AA meeting before? I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult. He didn't say before because he wanted me to actually go and see it for myself. 
> 
> The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.


Did you know the person who started AA had been through the "scientific professional" treatments twice before stopping without their help?  Sorry things didn't work out for your friend.  Court ordered anything isn't good.  But anyone who thinks having a support group that you can be totally honest with isn't helpful for breaking addiction has never really dealt with addiction.

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## Demigod

Well you can always start drinking American beers.

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## Confederate

> I don't think the people who only go because the court orders them to go are the ones it works for.


Yeah, that's a common complaint. The courts flood AA groups with people who only use AA as a 'Get Out Of Jail' card.

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## Tpoints

> My sister and nephew are in AA.  It's a cult.
> Penn and Teller did a Bull$#@!! episode on it too.  Couldn't find anyone to produce any science on it.
> If it ain't scientific and you still believe it works, well, you can do the math there.


if you believe it works, it's still got a placebo effect on you, don't it? 

By the way, it's funny that Penn & Teller didn't offer any alternative, just like they didn't offer any alternative to "anger management", they just say "hey, yours doesn't work, har har".

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## Tpoints

> Yeah, that's a common complaint. The courts flood AA groups with people who only use AA as a 'Get Out Of Jail' card.


Yeah, it's better of courts never give people that card and send them straight to jail.

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## Confederate

> Yeah, it's better of courts never give people that card and send them straight to jail.


That's not what I said.

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## Keith and stuff

> The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.


You very well might be correct. Maybe it's just the choose not to part that is needed. Used to feel the way you felt. Still struggling with that, also. Maybe some people are just weaker/broken and need to be built back up/fixed?

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## Tpoints

> Meh, they are usually spot on about 97% of the time..
> 
> Have you been to an AA meeting before? I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult. He didn't say before because he wanted me to actually go and see it for myself. 
> 
> The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.


Well, it's the extreme alternative to the "everything is your fault" message that people get when they're arrested or sent to court. There should be a middle ground, and I'm sure it varies by person. I do not sympathize with alcoholics, and I don't care if it's their fault/responsibility, I also don't care much if it's a cult, if they had that as an alternative to jail, they can take it or leave it.

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## Tpoints

> You obviously have never had a real alcoholic in your family.
> 
> Say the same thing about heroin and you'll see how ridiculous your statement is.


No, it's not ridiculous. If you were locked in a cage without access to heroine, you can avoid consumption of it, it'll be extremely painful, or even dangerous, but it's not impossible. Furthermore, no matter how addictive alcohol or any other drug is, you can't be dependent on it unless you tried it first yourself. So what now? Somebody forcefully injected your first dose?

By the way, there's a reason alcohol is not heroin. I am willing to bet the addictiveness varies widely. At what point will you say it's personal responsibility? Why not change the word to sugar or simply pleasure?

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## jmdrake

> You very well might be correct. Maybe it's just the choose not to part that is needed. Used to feel the way you felt. Still struggling with that, also. Maybe some people are just weaker/broken and need to be built back up/fixed?


Keith, I'm not an alcoholic but I'm dealing with an addiction that's just as bad.  (PM me if you want to know more).  You are an addict if you have a habit that is so strong that you keep doing it even in the face of negative consequences.  You can "choose" not to do something...and still do it.  Certain actions happen from certain parts of your brain that at times bypass the part of your brain where "choice" happens.  You can "choose" to do things that make it less likely to do "non choice" actions you don't want to do later.  One of those "choices" may be to go to AA.  One may be to go to therapy.  One may be to read self help books.  But anyone who tells you "You just have to choose to stop" doesn't know what they are talking about.  I know I've said this several times already, but get and read the book "The Power of Habit" if you want to know how to break an addiction.

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## kcchiefs6465

The problem I have with AA has been mentioned already. You must admit you are powerless to your disease and turn yourself over to a higher power. The support aspect of it is great and I've known a few alcoholics who have done the program successfully (stopped drinking altogether) but AA obviously isn't for everyone. Particularly athiests. What helps some people doesn't help others. One person I knew was 'brain washed' by NA and AA classes (court ordered) and came home spouting off all sorts of targeted propaganda. You want to complete the program that's fine.. best of luck.. but don't start parroting the same psychological babble that was force fed to you. I really just can't stand how selfrighteous some people become after completing the 12 steps.

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## Tpoints

> The problem I have with AA has been mentioned already. You must admit you are powerless to your disease and turn yourself over to a higher power. The support aspect of it is great and I've known a few alcoholics who have done the program successfully (stopped drinking altogether) but AA obviously isn't for everyone. Particularly athiests. What helps some people doesn't help others. One person I knew was 'brain washed' by NA and AA classes (court ordered) and came home spouting off all sorts of targeted propaganda. You want to complete the program that's fine.. best of luck.. but don't start parroting the same psychological babble that was force fed to you. I really just can't stand how selfrighteous some people become after completing the 12 steps.


Alcoholics are pretty much all losers, so it doesn't surprise me they are self righteous when they overcome their own prison.

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## jmdrake

> Meh, they are usually spot on about 97% of the time..
> 
> Have you been to an AA meeting before? I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult. He didn't say before because he wanted me to actually go and see it for myself. 
> 
> The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.





> You obviously have never had a real alcoholic in your family.
> 
> Say the same thing about heroin and you'll see how ridiculous your statement is.





> No, it's not ridiculous. If you were locked in a cage without access to heroine, you can avoid consumption of it, it'll be extremely painful, or even dangerous, but it's not impossible. Furthermore, no matter how addictive alcohol or any other drug is, you can't be dependent on it unless you tried it first yourself. So what now? Somebody forcefully injected your first dose?
> 
> By the way, there's a reason alcohol is not heroin. I am willing to bet the addictiveness varies widely. At what point will you say it's personal responsibility? Why not change the word to sugar or simply pleasure?


Ummm....tpoints, *do you realize that you aren't at all addressing what Confederate said*?  

A heroine addict locked in a cage isn't "avoiding anything".  He's been removed by forces beyond his control from the source of his addiction.  And even if a heroine addict locks himself in a cage, that's not the same as dealing with his problem.  Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts.  That might be where the language has gotten screwed up over the years.  Habits are formed.  They are not "pre-made".

As for "personal responsibility".....getting help if you need it is exercising personal responsibility.

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## Tpoints

> Ummm....tpoints, *do you realize that you aren't at all addressing what Confederate said*?  
> 
> A heroine addict locked in a cage isn't "avoiding anything".  He's been removed by forces beyond his control from the source of his addiction.  And even if a heroine addict locks himself in a cage, that's not the same as dealing with his problem.  Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts.  That might be where the language has gotten screwed up over the years.  Habits are formed.  They are not "pre-made".
> 
> As for "personal responsibility".....getting help if you need it is exercising personal responsibility.


I didn't say I wanted deal with his problem, I did say it's possible to remove and avoid the consumption, if that's not the goal I have no answer.

"Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts." I agree, but that's not what I hear when I am told "some people are more genetically prone than others" as if that'll matter if they never tried it.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Alcoholics are pretty much all losers, so it doesn't surprise me they are self righteous when they overcome their own prison.


That is ignorance on your part. The reasons for alcoholism vary and many alcoholics are genuinely good people. More-so than you would ever know.. or care to know, from the sound of things. Genetics plays a role too.

----------


## jmdrake

> I didn't say I wanted deal with his problem, I did say it's possible to remove and avoid the consumption, if that's not the goal I have no answer.
> 
> "Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts." I agree, but that's not what I hear when I am told "some people are more genetically prone than others" as if that'll matter if they never tried it.


Okay.  Tell me this.  Do you believe it's possible that some people are more genetically prone than others?  I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.  Sure, someone could avoid becoming an alcoholic by never drinking (unless it was forced on them somehow or their non-alcoholic drink was spiked).  But....what's your point?  I know the addiction I deal with isn't genetic.  I know what triggered it initially.  I know it was something beyond my ability to control.  And I know I need to deal with it now and that just "choosing" not to do it didn't work for me in the past for more than a few months.

----------


## Keith and stuff

Wasn't trying to start fights or anything  Lots of good stuff in this thread, though. Thanks.

----------


## Tpoints

> Okay.  Tell me this.  Do you believe it's possible that some people are more genetically prone than others?  I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.


Yes, I believe it's possible, I even believe it's true. But none of that matters if a person has to choose his first dose, the same is true of all other addictive substances. That's the main reason why most are illegal or controlled. 




> Sure, someone could avoid becoming an alcoholic by never drinking (unless it was forced on them somehow or their non-alcoholic drink was spiked).  But....what's your point?


Yeah, sorry, why did I make the point that a person could choose to avoid making a stupid mistake that ruins their lives? That was silly of me. 




> I know the addiction I deal with isn't genetic.  I know what triggered it initially.  I know it was something beyond my ability to control.


If you admit you triggered it, the rest is irrelevant. Oh wait, sorry, you were talking about how to deal with it once you're hooked and trapped? Well, good luck to you, whatever works works, but I'll keep warning the newbies that they don't need to end up like the addicts or those who admit they cant' control themselves.




> And I know I need to deal with it now and that just "choosing" not to do it didn't work for me in the past for more than a few months.


Why didn't it work for you? Did alcohol hold a gun to your head and say "drink me or I'll kill you"? Did your wife keep asking you to drink or threaten to divorce you? Did your friends call you a pussy for not drinking or not being able to control yourself? 

But back up a little bit, what is the "problem" you were trying to solve? Were you wasting too much money or was your behavior too despicable?

----------


## brandon

> Alcoholics are pretty much all losers, so it doesn't surprise me they are self righteous when they overcome their own prison.


Huh? I'm not sure how you define loser, but alcoholism has afflicted many of the most successful people in history.

----------


## Tpoints

> Huh? I'm not sure how you define loser, but alcoholism has afflicted many of the most successful people in history.


a loser : somebody who can't control himself but then gives himself credit for doing something other people can do easily.

----------


## dannno

> So I take it you bought into their attack on truthers too?


No, that makes up a good portion of the 3% of when they are wrong. The other episode on Mormonism has some pieces on JS that make up another good portion, though the parts about how Mormon families act is pretty spot on.  






> But anyone who thinks having a support group that you can be totally honest with isn't helpful for breaking addiction has never really dealt with addiction.


I'm all for support groups for people trying to quit alcohol or for all kinds of things, I just don't like the approach and propaganda used by AA.

----------


## brandon

That's a pretty strange definition of loser. Do you often make up new meanings for words? I bet this causes you a lot of headaches when trying to communicate with people.

----------


## Tpoints

> That's a pretty strange definition of loser. Do you often make up new meanings for words? I bet this causes you a lot of headaches when trying to communicate with people.


Give me a better one

----------


## awake

Just a word of advice, you need to substitute a bad pleasure with a good one. You might have to do something you don't do yet.
 Trying to quit with out proper and positive substitution makes it really difficult.

----------


## dannno

How much did you drink/night on average and how many nights/week on average?

What % do you drink socially at bars? with friends? at home alone?

Do you ever smoke cannabis?

Have you ever considered taking up the sport of surfing?

http://www.surfingstoke.com/blogs/ne...nd-perfection/

Surfing forces you to get up early, so you won't want to drink as much or as often. You will want to wake up early and surf. More compatible with partying on occasion (when the waves suck) and smoking weed.

----------


## Confederate

> How much did you drink/night on average and how many nights/week on average?
> 
> What % do you drink socially at bars? with friends? at home alone?
> 
> Do you ever smoke cannabis?
> 
> Have you ever considered taking up the sport of surfing?
> 
> http://www.surfingstoke.com/blogs/ne...nd-perfection/


cannabis and surfing are for losers.

----------


## dannno

> cannabis and surfing are for losers.


Surfing is the only true religion, cannabis is the sacrament. You're going to hell.

----------


## Confederate

> Surfing is the only true religion, cannabis is the sacrament. You're going to hell.


You're going to drown in the ocean.

----------


## dannno

> You're going to drown in the ocean.


I'm ok with that.

----------


## TheGrinch

> I haven't had to deal with alcohol, but I am dealing with a different addition.  I would suggest getting the book The Power of Habit and considering AA if alcohol is having a serious negative impact on your life.  Also Kudzu, which is all over the place in the south east, has been shown to be effective against alcohol cravings.
> 
> This is kudzu.


Come down to my neck of the woods and you can have all the freaking kudzu your heart desires. Curse the man who thought it would be good ground cover. The stuff grows several feet in a day in the summer, and is uncontrollable to where it's taking over our yard and even house at times now, with a creek as it's water source the vines are growing to several inches in diameter.

----------


## jmdrake

> Yes, I believe it's possible, I even believe it's true. But none of that matters if a person has to choose his first dose, the same is true of all other addictive substances. That's the main reason why most are illegal or controlled. 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sorry, why did I make the point that a person could choose to avoid making a stupid mistake that ruins their lives? That was silly of me. 
> 
> 
> 
> If you admit you triggered it, the rest is irrelevant. Oh wait, sorry, you were talking about how to deal with it once you're hooked and trapped? Well, good luck to you, whatever works works, but I'll keep warning the newbies that they don't need to end up like the addicts or those who admit they cant' control themselves.
> ...


TPoints, if you had read more and typed less you would not that I said alcohol is not my problem.  And if you think that everything that happens to a child when he is a child is his fault then you're just stupid.  That's all I will say on the matter.

----------


## jmdrake

> Wasn't trying to start fights or anything  Lots of good stuff in this thread, though. Thanks.


Hey, don't sweat it.  Overall I think it's a useful thread.  Some folks just have agendas they need to push.  Yeah we all know personal responsibility is important.  That doesn't mean there aren't people who need help getting over stuff, some of which was initiated by other people.  I wish you the best.

----------


## Tpoints

> TPoints, if you had read more and typed less you would not that I said alcohol is not my problem.  And if you think that everything that happens to a child when he is a child is his fault then you're just stupid.  That's all I will say on the matter.


are you a child?

----------


## jmdrake

> Come down to my neck of the woods and you can have all the freaking kudzu your heart desires. Curse the man who thought it would be good ground cover. The stuff grows several feet in a day in the summer, and is uncontrollable to where it's taking over our yard and even house at times now, with a creek as it's water source the vines are growing to several inches in diameter.


LOL.  I lived on a farm in central Alabama in my teen years so I know where I can find kudzu.  I found out about its ability to help with alcoholism when I started searching for something that it had to be good at.  My thought was "If this crap will make us any money, then I bet it will disappear on its own."   Oh, and I think "that man" was FDR, or at least some in his administration.

Something else that's funny.  I was in a store once and saw a packet of seeds for sale labeled "Jack's magic beans".  When you read the fine print it was kudzu!  I'm all for free markets and stuff, but that should be illegal.

----------


## jmdrake

> are you a child?


Were you never a child?    You're acting like one now.  You were talking about someone could simply not take the *initial* step and take that "first drink" or start whatever negative behavior.  My point was that sometimes those negative behaviors are pushed on people before they are old enough to think them through.  Since this thread started regarding alcohol (and no I don't drink and never have), what do you say to someone who was given whiskey in his baby bottle?  That has happened.  So your "Well they just never should have taken that first drink" argument doesn't hold water in all cases.  That's all I was saying.  Now I'll just allow you to feel that you are right since that seems too be all that's important to you.

----------


## erowe1

> The problem I have with AA has been mentioned already. You must admit you are powerless to your disease and turn yourself over to a higher power. The support aspect of it is great.


The support aspect is a big part of why I suggested it. I don't think you have to buy into everything in the 12 steps to benefit from the group. I'm sure there are other groups where you could get similar support without all the same ideology.

----------


## Tpoints

> Were you never a child?    You're acting like one now.  You were talking about someone could simply not take the *initial* step and take that "first drink" or start whatever negative behavior.


Correct, and just because those rare instances happen, doesn't mean I automatically sympathize with the 80-99% others who didn't have that happen to them. 

In any case, I don't care that much about being right, I am interesting in hearing your story, which is why I asked.

----------


## erowe1

> In any case, I don't care that much about being right, I am interesting in hearing your story, which is why I asked.


FWIW, I don't think anyone should feel the need to share that kind of thing here.

----------


## Tpoints

> FWIW, I don't think anyone should feel the need to share that kind of thing here.


That's his problem, I'm just saying I'm not so close minded that I'll ignore it if he wants me to be considerate.

----------


## jmdrake

> That's his problem, I'm just saying I'm not so close minded that I'll ignore it if he wants me to be considerate.


I honestly don't care if you are considerate or not.  If you know anything about the world you know that there are things that happen to kids that they have no control over that screw them up later in life.  If you don't know that, a personal story from me won't change it.

----------


## Tpoints

> I honestly don't care if you are considerate or not.  If you know anything about the world you know that there are things that happen to kids that they have no control over that screw them up later in life.  If you don't know that, a personal story from me won't change it.


I do know that, and I acknowledged it. And like I said, it doesn't change the fact that 80 if not 99% of alcoholics ARE NOT due to that.

----------


## tmg19103

If you are physically addicted to alcohol, you need AA and probably rehab first. You also have to want to stop completely. Hit your "bottom", so to speak. Otherwise, nothing will convince you to stop, but the fact that you are asking is a good sign.

If you are not psychically addicted, the social aspects can make it hard to stop if all your friends drink and all your social activities revolved around alcohol.

When I stopped drinking 11 years ago, I dropped or was dropped by all my heavy drinking friends. My first month I focused on work, working out, eating healthy, and hanging with people who hardly drank and making new friends along those lines.

After 6 months of not drinking, I was back at bars with groups of friends who were not heavy drinkers and I starting keeping booze in the house for friends (I don't recommend this if you are an alcoholic).

I now live life (and have done so for ten years) without even thinking bout wanting a drink (I know I will drink too much with just one drink) and live my life with no concerns about alcohol. I don't hang around heavy drinkers, but I have no concerns about events with social drinkers. Bartenders don't bat an eye when I order a club soda. So many people hardly drink or don't drink that I never feel conscious that somebody might think I'm an alcoholic (I don't think I am, but who knows and who cares?). Probably easier because I am in my 40's and most people are settled down with families. Would be a lot tougher in my 20's, but if there is a will there is a way. If you don't have the will but realize you need to stop, then try AA.

My guess is if want to stop now and can't, you will just continue to drink more because this is a progressive problem for those who can't stop drinking. If you don't stop now, you will at some point - and hopefully you will see the light before it causes you a relationship, job, house, DUI, manslaughter, or whatever the consequences of alcoholism end up being if that's where not stopping drinking will lead you.

----------


## jmdrake

> I do know that, and I acknowledged it. And like I said, it doesn't change the fact that 80 if not 99% of alcoholics ARE NOT due to that.


And so?  Nobody claimed otherwise.  Nobody is asking for "welfare for alcoholics" or any other public policy change.  Someone started a thread asking for help.  AA is a good suggestion.  Danno made a stupid comment as Danno is prone to do.  You've gone off on some "people shouldn't start drinking" tangent that has absolutely *nothing* to do with the OP's request for suggestions on how to stop drinking.

----------


## Keith and stuff

Some people have asked why. It's a legitimate question. Wasn't sure how this thread would turn out so gave very little info at first. Don't want to get into all of the reasons but there are many. For example, could stand to lose 15+ pounds of fat. Beer, liquor with mixers and wine all cause weight gain. Especially when drunkenness sets in and overeating starts. At a party, maybe cookies or cheese. At home, woke up to find a 1/2 gallon of ice cream gone once. Didn't remember having it. Should quit for medical reasons also. Have GERD and alcohol makes the problem worse.

Really just tied of the downward spiral. The physical pain. The hurting of others. The excessive misspelling of words on this forum. Don't want to end up with a DUI or worse like some people. Could be a better, more productive person. Seems like for that process to start, alcohol needs to go.

----------


## Tpoints

> And so?  Nobody claimed otherwise.  Nobody is asking for "welfare for alcoholics" or any other public policy change.  Someone started a thread asking for help.  AA is a good suggestion.  Danno made a stupid comment as Danno is prone to do.  You've gone off on some "people shouldn't start drinking" tangent that has absolutely *nothing* to do with the OP's request for suggestions on how to stop drinking.


Oh, but it sure sounded like people were asking for sympathy and understanding. AA is a good suggestion if the alternative is enabling continuous drinking. I think I started in here when somebody was saying that alcohol and heroin are comparable, and/or it's impossible to choose not to continue consuming it. (You explicitly said that choosing isn't working, not sure why)

----------


## Tpoints

> Some people have asked why. It's a legitimate question. Wasn't sure how this thread would turn out so gave very little info at first. Don't want to get into all of the reasons but there are many. For example, could stand to lose 15+ pounds of fat. Beer, liquor with mixers and wine all cause weight gain. Especially when drunkenness sets in and overeating starts. At a party, maybe cookies or cheese. At home, woke up to find a 1/2 gallon of ice cream gone once. Didn't remember having it. Should quit for medical reasons also. Have GERD and alcohol makes the problem worse.
> 
> Really just tied of the downward spiral. The physical pain. The hurting of others. The excessive misspelling of words on this forum. Don't want to end up with a DUI or worse like some people. Could be a better, more productive person. Seems like for that process to start, alcohol needs to go.


Why does alcohol cause weight gain? Simple : it's carbohydrates, aka sugar. Sugar is sugar whether you get it from sweet sucrose, fruits with glucose, high fructose corn syrup, or honey, oh wait, there's also starches and grains (wheat and rice). If you can watch your calories and carb intake, that'd be key to losing weight. 

Ice cream, what a luxury. And I definitely don't want you tied up with anything like a DUI. Hurting of others? What kind of libertarian does that?

----------


## kathy88

> Why does alcohol cause weight gain? Simple : it's carbohydrates, aka sugar. Sugar is sugar whether you get it from sweet sucrose, fruits with glucose, high fructose corn syrup, or honey, oh wait, there's also starches and grains (wheat and rice). If you can watch your calories and carb intake, that'd be key to losing weight. 
> 
> Ice cream, what a luxury. And I definitely don't want you tied up with anything like a DUI. Hurting of others? What kind of libertarian does that?


we are indeed blessed to have such a perfect being typing amongst us.

----------


## Tpoints

> we are indeed blessed to have such a perfect being typing amongst us.


who said anybody is perfect?

----------


## KevinR

Move to Colorado :P

----------


## TheGrinch

> who said anybody is perfect?


The guy calling others "losers" for falling into the woes of life, and in this case trying to pull himself back out away from an addiction: So maybe this thread can return back to it's original purpose of helping him take personal responsibility for something that I know from personal experience becomes incredibly difficult.  

Demanding personal responsibility does not mean an absence of empathy and support for those trying to better themselves, or even those who should, so TIA for not turning his thread into whatever it is your agenda is. Time and place if you want to call us all losers besides his "I'd like to stop drinking" thread.

----------


## Tpoints

> The guy calling others "losers" for falling into the woes of life, and in this case trying to pull himself back out away from an addiction, so maybe this thread can return back to it's original purpose of helping him take personal responsibility for something that I know from personal experience becomes incredibly difficult.  
> 
> Demanding personal responsibility does not mean an absence of empathy and support for those trying to better themselves, or even those who should.


Just because I'm an $#@! doesn't mean I think I'm perfect, at all.

----------


## TheGrinch

> Just because I'm an $#@! doesn't mean I think I'm perfect, at all.


Nobody cares, but it'd be greatly appreciated if you stopped acting like it. Looks like you responded before I added this last sentence, and I hope you'll take this advice:




> so TIA for not turning his thread into whatever it is your agenda is. Time and place if you want to call us all losers besides his "I'd like to stop drinking" thread.

----------


## BamaAla

Good for you! New Years Day was the 3 year mark without alcohol for me; I too made a resolution to quit the drink. 

Obviously it isn't one size fits all, but I'll give some of the highlights for me.

The hardest part for me was the social situations where I usually drank: parties, bars, ball games, etc. I just quit going to these for a while until I was far enough away from my last drink that I was confident I wouldn't cave to the social pressure.

Also, I hope that you're lucky enough to have good friends who will support you, but don't be surprised if you have some that resent your decision. I had some that were cool to start, but ended up saying things like "you're no fun now" or "just drink tonight with me" etc. I'd just ditch these people; they aren't worth it. If you can't ditch them, just explain to them that it's important to you and that you need them to help you. 

Other than those pitfalls, it just boils down to your will. I had the tendency to become a mean drunk and was alienating myself from those I cared about. I knew that I had to quit not just for myself but for those that cared about me. If you have a good reason, you will be able to make it. 

There is always AA, but I really didn't want to give alcohol the power over me and decided to just be stronger than the urge to drink. The AA route is always there for you if you have trouble though. I wish you the best of luck and you can always in box me if you have any questions about my journey.

----------


## Tod

> No, I think that's a Honda.


Sure it isn't an Isuzu?

----------


## jmdrake

> Oh, but it sure sounded like people were asking for sympathy and understanding. AA is a good suggestion if the alternative is enabling continuous drinking. I think I started in here when somebody was saying that alcohol and heroin are comparable, and/or it's impossible to choose not to continue consuming it. (You explicitly said that choosing isn't working, not sure why)


A) I explicitly said I'm not talking about alcohol WRT myself twice now so I'm not sure why you don't get that.
B) If you studied the science of habit you'd know that's not how addictions work.  You can "choose" not to do something, try really really hard, then find yourself doing it anyway before thinking about it.  The "choice" you have to make to break an addiction is to break the habit loop before it gets going well.  Joining a support group is one way to help with that.

Really, if it were as simple as "Just choose not to" do you think someone would go to the trouble of posting a thread on the subject?  Do you think people would go to counselling or therapy or support groups?  If you don't have any addictions, great!  I'm happy for you.  I hope you don't have to go through any of this.  As for the heroine comment, "Confederate" was pointing out that Danno's "people who abuse alcohol have the power (in themselves) to stop and just chose not to do so" is asinine.  If it was that simple, groups like AA wouldn't exist.  Is alcohol as addictive as heroine?  I don't think so, but that wasn't the point.  It's that in either case sometimes folks need to do more than just say "I choose not to do this anymore" to actually stop.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Why does alcohol cause weight gain? Simple : it's carbohydrates, aka sugar. Sugar is sugar whether you get it from sweet sucrose, fruits with glucose, high fructose corn syrup, or honey, oh wait, there's also starches and grains (wheat and rice). If you can watch your calories and carb intake, that'd be key to losing weight. 
> 
> Ice cream, what a luxury. And I definitely don't want you tied up with anything like a DUI. *Hurting of others? What kind of libertarian does that?*


You sir, are a $#@!ing idiot.

----------


## VoluntaryAmerican

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


I've quit drinking and smoking cigarettes. 

Just forget it. 

Move on, do better things with your time. Remind yourself of this when you're doing other things you enjoy or things that make you a better person.

And when drinking pops in your mind, push it out as calmly as it first appeared.

----------


## muzzled dogg

lol you should have seen keith's facebook posts this weekend

but seriously man message me if you need advice.  i was sober for like 18 months while concurrently being a liberty activist

----------


## cjm

> Some people have asked why. It's a legitimate question. Wasn't sure how this thread would turn out so gave very little info at first. Don't want to get into all of the reasons but there are many. For example, *could stand to lose 15+ pounds of fat.* Beer, liquor with mixers and wine all cause weight gain. Especially when drunkenness sets in and overeating starts. At a party, maybe cookies or cheese. At home, woke up to find a 1/2 gallon of ice cream gone once. Didn't remember having it. Should quit for medical reasons also. Have GERD and alcohol makes the problem worse.
> 
> Really just tied of the downward spiral. The physical pain. The hurting of others. The excessive misspelling of words on this forum. Don't want to end up with a DUI or worse like some people. Could be a better, more productive person. Seems like for that process to start, alcohol needs to go.


WRT fat, I will repeat the exercise/sports suggestion.  If you find it's too difficult to make yourself exercise in the evening when you might otherwise be drinking, sign up for an organized league of something (basketball, kickball, soccer, whatever) so that you can't say, "well, I'll just put this off until tomorrow" and end up never doing it at all.  If you want to shed some pounds, exercise will naturally be a part of that anyway, so schedule the exercise so that it interferes with your normal drinking schedule (which is the evening for most folks), and kill two birds with one stone.

Don't drink when you are thirsty.  If I spend all day in the yard doing yard work, a cold beer sounds like the best idea in the world when I'm done.  But if I'm thirsty, that first beer will be gone in 5 minutes and a second one started before I know it.  Take time to have a few glasses of water first and that post-yardwork beer is one beer instead of three.

Don't drink when you are hungry.  Similar to the post-yardwork beer, the after work beer would often disappear before I knew it and I'd be on my second beer at dinner time.  If I wait and have that first beer with dinner, it's one beer, I enjoy it more, and I'm often still working on it an hour later while cleaning the kitchen.  If you're thirsty at dinner time though, drink a glass or two of water first, otherwise that dinner beer can be gone in 5 minutes too.

Substitutes help.  I used to drink a ton of soda and just switching to water didn't quite do it for me.  Iced tea, however, was flavorful enough that it was an acceptable substitute and I was able to cut the soda consumption way back.  I've never found a good substitute for beer personally.  Some folks I know who have quit entirely will drink the NA beers out there.  I tried them and to me they are not very good.  Like NCGOPer_for_Paul said about the macrobrews, I would rather not drink them at all, but they seem to work for some folks.

As for the late night or all night events, you need to go to bed.  Join an evening basketball league.  It'll wipe you out and you won't be up until 3am.  In the absence of physical exhaustion, Melatonin works pretty good.  At any rate, step away from the screen and read a book.  The light from computer and TV screens will keep you up at night and prevent you from getting the sleep you need for a healthy lifestyle, regardless of alcohol consumption.

Who said 12 or 16 ounces were the only serving sizes?  It won't always be on the menu at a restaurant, but most places that I've been will sell you a half-pint and only charge you half-price.  This is great for when you are out and have had a beer with a long dinner and might want a little bit more but don't want to commit to a full drink.  If you're drinking from a bottle or the restaurant doesn't want to give you a half-pour, maybe someone in your dinner party would be willing to split a beer with you.  I have even done this at home on some occasions.  On a yard work day I might want to have a beer with my lunch of grilled bratwurst but if I have to continue with the yard work after lunch, I will sometimes pop the cap on the bottle, pour half into a glass, put the cap back on the bottle and put the bottle back in the fridge.  If the bottle makes it to the lunch table, all 12 ounces will get consumed, believe me   but if only six ounces are in front of me, that's all I will drink (and you can't have bratwurst w/out beer, right??).  The re-capped bottle will hold the carbonation until later in the evening.

If you drink wine, you need to get those rubber stoppers with the vacuum pump.  Just shoving the cork back in doesn't keep the wine and the frugal among us can sometimes be tempted to have a little extra if we think what's remaining in the bottle will go bad and it will be "wasted."  With the vacuum seal, I don't have any qualms opening a bottle and pouring one glass and sealing it up for some other day.

Anyway, these are my tips to help you reduce your intake.  If you want to target 2-3 drinks a day and you're currently at 8, you need to wean yourself off.  Shoot for 2 drinks maybe, but allow yourself 6 per day that first week so that you're not a failure if you have 4-5 instead of the 2.  Most heavy drinkers I have known got there over a long period of time and it'll take a bit of time to reduce the intake too.  My personal experience is that an active lifestyle is incompatible with regular heavy drinking, so sign up for a church or rec league that plays in the evenings and disrupts the drinking habit.

Ultimately, you have to find something that's more important than the drinking.  I have been to Saturday night cocktail parties where you would think that I would allow myself a little extra intake because of the special circumstances, but the reality is I have one or two beers and then at 10pm I switch to water because I am hydrating for the 12pm Sunday basketball session.  I don't leave the party or anything like that, I just put the basketball at a higher priority than the beer and act accordingly.

The last suggestion, wrt to your DUI concern, is that there are personal breathalizers out there that you can pick up and keep in your car.  I have a buddy who I wouldn't call a heavy drinker, but not a lightweight either.  He picked one up and swears by it.  It's a nice objective measurement of your status instead of, "I feel ok to drive."  If he blows over the limit, he picks up the kindle and just reads in the car for a bit.  I'd post an amazon link but I don't know what make/model he uses and I don't have one myself to recommend.

Sorry for the wall of text, Keith, I hope there's something useful in here for you.

Cheers,

CJM

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


Nyquil PRN (PRN is medicalese for "as needed").  The store brands are cheaper.  It works wonders for weaning people off narcotics and will put you to sleep.  It's also great for anytime you are recovering and need bed rest too.

You can get a Rx for something called antibuse(sp?).  It will make you barf if you drink any ETOH.

Mix up drinking clear hard ETOH, dark hard ETOH and beer.  That combo will have you singing ralph to the porcelain god and with repetition instills a negative desire. 

Use a trick used to quit smoking:  Have a timer and set it so that every time it goes off, you take a shot or drink a beer or whatever.  Increase the time between drinks over time.  The point is that you get to drink when the clock rings, not when you want to drink.  You will find it's kind of like getting a second wind trying to get to sleep and not being able to.  Basically, you want a drink, you want a drink, you are over wanting a drink...  like wanna sleep, wanna sleep - can't sleep - staring at the ceiling time...

Eat before you drink.  It slows absorption and you will get used to being less drunk.

Take a vacation that involves physical exertion to the point of being exhausted and someplace remote where ETOH is not available.  I've gone cold turkey off cigs and a heavy coffee habit (several pots a day) this way.  Didn't even miss um!  2 weeks min!

If you are into beer, try non-beer.  It's non-alcoholic but gives you the taste.  I would suggest mixing with actual beer in a decreasing ratio till you are drinking nothing but non-beer.  If you are into wine, try cider. 

Find a hot GF with a really, really high sex drive who doesn't drink.  You may have to check into SA (Sexaholics Anonymous) if she dumps you, though...

Hang out and develop a social life with people that don't drink.

Get a job in a bar.  I'm serious!  Most places let you have 1 drink a shift, after they close.  Plus you get to see what a bunch of drunk $#@!s look like and behave like when you are sober.  Then if there is no ETOH at home...  Well, you get one drink a night.

AA (and all 12 step programs) are supposed to be pretty cultish, but some people like them.  NA welcomes alcoholics and I'm told you are more likely to get laid via a NA meeting than an AA meeting.  You are also more likely to contract a STD and will learn all sorts of things about the hard drug culture and where to obtain - so that could backfire in a bad way.

Some rehab programs are on the inexpensive side - if you can take a month off...  They are generally 12 step based.

Do relief work in a country where ETOH is banned.  There are a number of opportunities available.  Ask at your local church. 

Develop a relationship with Mary Jane...

Alcohol depletes your body of Vitamin B.  Get supplements or develop a liverwurst sandwich habit.

Physical activity.  X-country skiing, hiking via a outdoor club, etc.  or even a active - most nights - lifestyle via Meetups, yoga classes, etc - whatever.  Just get out and do stuff regularly and get yourself away from the couch.  Kill your TV.  DO NOT join a gym!  They will lock you into a 1 year contract and you will go a few times and get stuck with the bill.

All I can think of right now.  Hope it helps!

-t

----------


## BucksforPaul

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


I drank through college and there was a time when I was drinking heavily six nights out of the week.  Binge drinking is the best way to describe what I was doing back then.  However, I have not had a drink since 2005 and what helped me quit was that I did not like how I felt the next morning and I don't just mean the hangover.  Hope that helps and I wish I had the same will power to quit smoking.

----------


## RickyJ

My advice for stopping anything, "Just stop it." 

Similar to Nike's advice about exercise, "Just do it."

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## jkob

Best advice is just to not keep in the house and stay away from it all together. In my experience, trying to "diet yourself" and drink in moderation does not work well for me. I'll have one drink and then another and another and another and so on.

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## PaulConventionWV

> You could put a $#@!load of spices and random $#@! in your liquor bottles so it tastes awful


Or you could not do that and just quit.  I think you'll find it becomes just as hard to put $#@! in your beer as it is to stop drinking the beer.

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## PaulConventionWV

I've been sober for over a year now, and you know what?  I never had an addiction.  I feel almost the same now as I did when I was drinking.  Sure, there were emotional reasons for me to drink, but I really did it because I stopped caring so much about my health.  I went through everyday life, went to classes, did my homework and drank to the point of sickness on weekends.  When I got out of school, I just stopped drinking.  I didn't feel any need to drink because I was out of those social situations where drinking was encouraged.  I seriously don't know why it's so hard for some people to quit because I've never experienced an addiction even though I went on a 3 month binge.  This was after I quit the track team for unrelated reasons.  My teammate who had quit before me had spent his summer drinking alone in his home when he should have been training.  He came back to school with the team out of shape and slower.  Shortly afterward, he freaked out and quit, then promptly moved back home.  

What makes me feel bad is that he was my roommate, and I was largely the one who got him into drinking.  We were both doing it for the first time, but it never seemed to have an effect on me like it did for him.  I suppose I will never understand.  My dad supposedly had a drinking problem as well, but he swears up and down that he never needed the alcohol.  He just wanted it.  He quit cold turkey after he got arrested for DUI.  It seemed like he was never going to do it at first, but he still claims to this day that it was never an addiction, and now I know what he means.  I never experienced the need to drink throughout the few years that I did drink and party.  

My advice is to just stop doing things that lend themselves to drinking.  Don't buy it, have it around, or hang out with people who do it.  Sure, that's easier said than done, but I went through it very abruptly and found after those situations were taken out of the equation that it was easy to quit.  It's just a matter of changing your lifestyle.

----------


## tmg19103

> Nyquil PRN (PRN is medicalese for "as needed").  The store brands are cheaper.  It works wonders for weaning people off narcotics and will put you to sleep.  It's also great for anytime you are recovering and need bed rest too.


Terrible suggestion. Nyquil is loaded with acetamenophin. People who have tried this technique to stop drinking have loaded up on the Nyquil (and thus high doses of acetamenophin) and STILL drank heavily because they are alcoholics and have gone into acute liver failure and even died from this. 

High doses of acetamenophin with a lot of alcohol will shut down your liver and could kill you.

Not that I ever trust the government, but this source is right on.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2929565

I know a guy who was hospitalized for acute liver failure for trying exactly this while not being able to control his drinking. His eyes remained yellow for months after he got out of the hospital from the jaundice. Told me he almost died. After that he went into AA and has been sober since, though AA is no cure-all unless a true alcoholic really wants to stop.

The OP does not strike me as addicted to alcohol from what has been posted, but I still would not try this.

----------


## tmg19103

> What makes me feel bad is that he was my roommate, and I was largely the one who got him into drinking.  We were both doing it for the first time, but it never seemed to have an effect on me like it did for him.  I suppose I will never understand.  My dad supposedly had a drinking problem as well, but he swears up and down that he never needed the alcohol.  He just wanted it.  He quit cold turkey after he got arrested for DUI.  It seemed like he was never going to do it at first, but he still claims to this day that it was never an addiction, and now I know what he means.  I never experienced the need to drink throughout the few years that I did drink and party.


Here's the problem. The vast majority of people are not predisposed to alcoholism and can stop drinking even after years of heavy drinking.

The problem is the roughly 10% of the population that has the brain chemistry (often in the family tree) that predisposes them to alcoholism.

For this roughly 10% of the population, it has nothing to do with will power. Their brains are highly susceptible to becoming addicted to alcohol. Within that 10% there is a spectrum. Those whose brains are so addictive to alcohol they can never stop and will drink themselves to death no matter how many rehabs and AA meetings they go to, down to those who still can't stop on their own, but with the help of a good therapist or AA can get over it.

For this small percentage of the population, alcohol is often as addictive as heroine. 

Everybody can probably equate to this as they know people who can stop smoking with ease, while others continue to smoke two packs a day after they are diagnosed with lung cancer. They want to stop but they can't because nicotine is so addictive for their particular brain chemistry. 

Same goes with alcohol.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I've been sober for over a year now, and you know what?  I never had an addiction.  I feel almost the same now as I did when I was drinking.  Sure, there were emotional reasons for me to drink, but I really did it because I stopped caring so much about my health.  I went through everyday life, went to classes, did my homework and drank to the point of sickness on weekends.  When I got out of school, I just stopped drinking.  I didn't feel any need to drink because I was out of those social situations where drinking was encouraged.  I seriously don't know why it's so hard for some people to quit because I've never experienced an addiction even though I went on a 3 month binge.  This was after I quit the track team for unrelated reasons.  My teammate who had quit before me had spent his summer drinking alone in his home when he should have been training.  He came back to school with the team out of shape and slower.  Shortly afterward, he freaked out and quit, then promptly moved back home.


You know, it's kind of funny how that works out. Not being addicted and all. When I was in school I used to drink fairly heavy. Once to twice a week. I couldn't control how I acted and generally became an $#@!. For this reason many people didn't want me to drink and I don't blame them. I was not addicted to alcohol at the time and just drank socially, as well as to ease the stress of different problems I was having. People encouraged me to quit and labeled me an alcoholic but I never took heed to their warnings because I did not crave alcohol. A few years of this went on of me sometimes going a couple weeks without drinking or sometimes drinking everyday. I used that to remind myself how strong my mind was. I figured I could never be truly addicted. Well I moved out of state and lost touch with virtually all of my old friends, and most of my family. I reverted to my old ways and started drinking heavily again. After a few months of this I became addicted to alcohol. Hell even this thread makes me want to pour one.

This is the same for cigarettes with me as I smoked recreationally for a long while. I wasn't addicted and didn't take the warnings of addicts who said stop while you're ahead. It caught up with me as well. Eventually your habit will become an addiction. It doesn't matter how strong you are. I am now in the process of mentally reminding myself that I am strong. I crave both but have recently cut back on them. I quit cigarettes for two years once but became stressed about my housing situation and started smoking again. Quitting smoking is ten-fold easier than quitting alcohol. I have cut back on how much I drink and sometimes just drink a beer and that's it. That's real progress for me. Baby steps like that and I will one day stop drinking altogether. I would love to just smoke cannabis recreationally. (job makes that idea impossible at the moment) People enjoy my company an awful lot more than when I'm drunk.

----------


## brandon

The one thing I'm learning from this thread is how incredibly difficult it is for non-addicts to relate to alcoholics and vice versa.  As a person with alcoholic tendencies, it's clear many of you just don't get it at all. And there's probably no way for us to explain it to you. And I can't fathom the idea of having a beer with dinner and then going to bed.  It just doesn't work like that for me.

----------


## dannno

> And I can't fathom the idea of having a beer with dinner and then going to bed.  It just doesn't work like that for me.


Sounds really painful.

----------


## Acala

> The one thing I'm learning from this thread is how incredibly difficult it is for non-addicts to relate to alcoholics and vice versa.  As a person with alcoholic tendencies, it's clear many of you just don't get it at all. And there's probably no way for us to explain it to you. And I can't fathom the idea of having a beer with dinner and then going to bed.  It just doesn't work like that for me.


My guess is that it is epigenetic.  People can change epigenetics but it isn't as easy as "just say no"

----------


## dannno

> And I can't fathom the idea of having a beer with dinner and then going to bed.  It just doesn't work like that for me.





> Sounds really painful.


So is it like making out with a hot girl and then ending up going home with blue balls?

----------


## pcosmar

> The problem is the roughly 10% of the population that has the brain chemistry (often in the family tree) that predisposes them to alcoholism.


You actually buy that horse$#@!?

People make choices. Some choose poorly.

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## dannno

> And I can't fathom the idea of having a beer with dinner and then going to bed.  It just doesn't work like that for me.


Here's the thing, almost every liquor store has beer by the bottle.. and often your mid to high range tasting beers are sold by the bottle. What would happen if you got a single 12-20 oz bottle of good IPA or any kind of good tasting beer you want and bring it home, grill up a steak and drink your beer with dinner and pretend it's diet soda or something. Now try smoking a bowl. Do you REALLLY need to go out to the store at this point and get more alcohol?? Next night, repeat the process without the beer. The next night repeat the process with a beer. On friday and saturday you can have up to 40 oz of beer or 3 well drinks per night. Just make sure and go 2 or 3 nights a week without drinking. Is that really that much more painful than staying completely sober and weirding out everybody else you know who enjoys drinking?

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## kcchiefs6465

> You actually buy that horse$#@!?
> 
> People make choices. Some choose poorly.


http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...lcoholism-gene

[SNIPPED]

_Pandey's research focuses on the CREB gene, so-named because it produces a protein called CREB -- cyclic AMP responsive element binding protein. The CREB gene regulates brain function during development and learning. The gene is also involved in the process of alcohol tolerance, dependence, and withdrawal symptoms, writes Pandey. 

A section of the brain -- called the central amygdala -- is another piece of this puzzle. Both the CREB gene and the central amygdala have been linked with withdrawal and anxiety. When there is less CREB in the central amygdala, rats show increased anxiety-like behaviors and preference for alcohol. 

Pandey's newest study puts it all together: It is "the first direct evidence that a deficiency in the CREB gene is associated with anxiety and alcohol-drinking behavior," Pandey writes._ 

*Mice Bred for Alcohol Addiction*

_In this study, Pandey and colleagues worked with rats specially bred to be deficient in the CREB "alcoholism" gene. In a series of experiments, he found that: 

Rats deficient in the CREB protein drank about 50% more alcohol than normal rats. They also showed more anxiety-like behavior in a maze test. 

These rats also showed a higher preference for alcohol over water compared with normal rats; yet they had similar preferences for sugar water -- indicating that the alcohol consumption was not related to taste preferences. 

These rats also displayed more anxiety than normal mice, which decreased when drinking alcohol. The anxiety-reducing effect of alcohol was not as great in the normal rats. 

Alcoholic rats had higher levels of the CREB protein in the central amygdala. 

These results indicate that the CREB or alcoholism gene is "crucial" to the anxiety relief that triggers alcohol addiction, Pandey writes._ 



Yes, to an extent, genetics play a role in alcoholism.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> Terrible suggestion. Nyquil is loaded with acetamenophin. People who have tried this technique to stop drinking have loaded up on the Nyquil (and thus high doses of acetamenophin) and STILL drank heavily because they are alcoholics and have gone into acute liver failure and even died from this. 
> 
> High doses of acetamenophin with a lot of alcohol will shut down your liver and could kill you.
> 
> Not that I ever trust the government, but this source is right on.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2929565
> 
> I know a guy who was hospitalized for acute liver failure for trying exactly this while not being able to control his drinking. His eyes remained yellow for months after he got out of the hospital from the jaundice. Told me he almost died. After that he went into AA and has been sober since, though AA is no cure-all unless a true alcoholic really wants to stop.
> ...


Oh god no! - the Nyquil is supposed to be in place of ETOH, NOT in addition to it!

-t

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## pcosmar

> *Mice Bred for Alcohol Addiction*
>  [/I]



Where do they buy alcohol in the wild?
Manipulated "study" is manipulated..

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## kcchiefs6465

> Oh god no! - the Nyquil is supposed to be in place of ETOH, NOT in addition to it!
> 
> -t


Still a bad idea.

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## osan

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.


Just stop.  Pretty simple, actually.

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## brandon

> Where do they buy alcohol in the wild?
> Manipulated "study" is manipulated..


I'm not sure I quite understand your comment, so my reply might not make sense.  But ethanol is found in naturally fermenting fruits in the wild all the time.

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## TheGrinch

> Just stop.  Pretty simple, actually.


No, it's not that simple or he would have stopped already.

It's rather insulting that some of you come in here, clearly without addictions of your own, and treat people like it's just an issue of their weak will-power, when it's so much more complex than that. 

For many addicts, asking them to stop is like asking you to stop eating. Of course you can for a little while, but when those triggers, cravings, brain connections hit, it becomes so much more difficult to "just stop" than to just say fuggit.

So yes, don't discount personal responsibility, but the lack of empathy for those who've fallen into what is a very common and hereditary social convention and subsequent addiction is just heartless when he's trying to better himself and asking for support and advice.

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## pcosmar

> I'm not sure I quite understand your comment, so my reply might not make sense.  But ethanol is found in naturally fermenting fruits in the wild all the time.


Yes,, and animals sometimes get drunk.

That does not mean a "study" is not manipulated to come to a preconceived  result. 



> Mice *Bred for* Alcohol Addiction


Bred for a specific purpose. For the purposes of a particular "study".

Especially when huge amounts of Taxpayer Dollars are involved.




Mice get drunk. Squirrels get drunk. Hell,,, Elephants get drunk..
That does not make them addicts or alcoholics.

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## dannno

> treat people like it's just an issue of their weak will-power, when it's so much more complex than that.


To me it is an issue of being able to go to the store, buy a single bottle or maybe 2 small bottles of beer, going home, drinking them, going about your night without driving back to the store for more beer. Or going to a party, having 2-4 drinks and then going about the rest of your night. Why is that worse for an alcoholic than being sober? People are generally boring as $#@! when they are sober, including (former or current) alcoholics. Sometimes you gotta lighten up a little.

The thing is I've known alcoholics personally, people are saying that I haven't, but I live in a place where alcohol is in huge abundance and almost everybody drinks. But I've known alcoholics who have been able to control their alcohol intake for months or even a year or more, and then something happens and they snap and they drink like crazy for a couple days or weeks until they end up in jail or something.

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## kathy88

All these armchair drug and alcohol counselors crack me up. If it was a matter of just saying, okay I won't drink anymore do you think AA would have over 2 million members?

----------


## TheGrinch

> To me it is an issue of being able to go to the store, buy a single bottle or maybe 2 small bottles of beer, going home, drinking them, going about your night without driving back to the store for more beer. Or going to a party, having 2-4 drinks and then going about the rest of your night. Why is that worse for an alcoholic than being sober? People are generally boring as $#@! when they are sober, sometimes you gotta lighten up a little.


Because for some people, it's an all or nothing type of thing, and if they take that first drink will go into a downward spiral. It's easier for some than it is for those like myself who have an addictive personality (why I don't drink hard liquor so I can better control my drinking like you suggested). 

Have you ever known someone who quit smoking, but then after a night where they had a few cigarettes gone back to smoking over a pack a day? It's happened to me many times, and it's the same situation here for some.  If you're addicted enough, then you have no choice but to just try not to do it, one day at a time, even replace it with something else, but it's anything but easy. In fact, if I'm down to my last few smokes, it's almost impossible for me to keep my mind off the fact that I'm going to run out and have no more. 

I mean sure, for some just buying less beer might be a fine solution, it works for me, but then again my real addiction is nicotine, where I certainly cannot say the same.

----------


## Tpoints

> All these armchair drug and alcohol counselors crack me up. If it was a matter of just saying, okay I won't drink anymore do you think AA would have over 2 million members?


The fact there are millions of people who can't control themselves proves there's millions of people who can't control themselves.

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## kathy88

This is kind of like trying to teach calc to the special Ed class.

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## dannno

> All these armchair drug and alcohol counselors crack me up. If it was a matter of just saying, okay I won't drink anymore do you think AA would have over 2 million members?


Alcoholics who go back and forth to AA are just indecisive. One day they are convinced that they are never going to have another drop of alcohol and then one day they say "$#@! it" and drink a bottle of vodka. Occasionally people make that decision and never turn back.. but for the vast majority of 'alcoholics', how much better off would these people be if they made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to learn to drink in moderation? Alcohol actually has healthful benefits when drank in moderation.

----------


## kathy88

I love you Danno. There is, however no way that I personally can drink alcohol in moderation. I tried hundreds of times. I'm certainly not alone in that.

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## TheGrinch

> The fact there are millions of people who can't control themselves proves there's millions of people who can't control themselves.


Welcome to my ignore list. Clearly your lack of self-control is in being unable to stop being an $#@! to those you disagree with and over things you don't understand. I wish you well in getting the support and finding a way to control your addiction of being an annoying internet tough guy.

----------


## TheGrinch

> Alcoholics who go back and forth to AA are just indecisive. One day they are convinced that they are never going to have another drop of alcohol and then one day they say "$#@! it" and drink a bottle of vodka. Occasionally people make that decision and never turn back.. but for the vast majority of 'alcoholics', how much better off would these people be if they made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to learn to drink in moderation? Alcohol actually has healthful benefits when drank in moderation.


Also have nothing but respect for you man, but you're coming off as rather judgmental and short-sighted for someone who's typically open-minded to the real problems of the world.

----------


## dannno

> Because for some people, it's an all or nothing type of thing, and if they take that first drink will go into a downward spiral. It's easier for some than it is for those like myself who have an addictive personality (why I don't drink hard liquor so I can better control my drinking like you suggested). 
> 
> Have you ever known someone who quit smoking, but then after a night where they had a few cigarettes gone back to smoking over a pack a day? It's happened to me many times, and it's the same situation here for some.  If you're addicted enough, then you have no choice but to just try not to do it, one day at a time, even replace it with something else, but it's anything but easy. In fact, if I'm down to my last few smokes, it's almost impossible for me to keep my mind off the fact that I'm going to run out and have no more. 
> 
> I mean sure, for some just buying less beer might be a fine solution, it works for me, but then again my real addiction is nicotine, where I certainly cannot say the same.


It's all a matter of putting things into perspective. 

I don't like waking up early and getting ready for work, but when I get my paycheck I remember why I did it every day. So I make a concious decision each day to wake up and go to work. 

Drinking in moderation leads to fun times and good social gatherings and even good health. If an 'alcoholic' keeps this in mind, and keeps in mind that being sober sucks and is boring and getting completely $#@!ed up is no good either, then why not make the conscious decision to drink in moderation just like getting up and going to work? I mean, for me, I LOVE drinking in moderation. I hate having more than 4 or 5 drinks, I get hung over, I prefer 1 or 2 drinks, maybe 3 or 4 on the weekend if I'm getting a little crazy. So for me, I don't have to make a conscious decision to drink in moderation just like I don't have to make a conscious decision to seek out yummy food because I can unconsciously seek out yummy food so I can unconsciously drink in moderation. 

Alcohols might have to go through a little more discipline to drink in moderation, but I would think an alcoholic would much prefer being relatively buzzed to being sober.

And honestly, the only people I've known who had a problem with alcoholism were prevented by the state from consuming cannabis because they had to be drug tested for probation. I've never known anybody who could freely smoke cannabis and was also an alcoholic. So I believe the vast majority of alcoholism stems from cannabis prohibition. When my alcoholic friend was growing cannabis and had several ounces in jars in his room, he wasn't an alcoholic.

----------


## TheGrinch

> It's all a matter of putting things into perspective. 
> 
> I don't like waking up early and getting ready for work, but when I get my paycheck I remember why I did it every day. So I make a concious decision each day to wake up and go to work. 
> 
> Drinking in moderation leads to fun times and good social gatherings and even good health. If an 'alcoholic' keeps this in mind, and keeps in mind that being sober sucks and is boring and getting completely $#@!ed up is no good either, then why not make the conscious decision to drink in moderation just like getting up and going to work? I mean, for me, I LOVE drinking in moderation. I hate having more than 4 or 5 drinks, I get hung over, I prefer 1 or 2 drinks, maybe 3 or 4 on the weekend if I'm getting a little crazy. So for me, I don't have to make a conscious decision to drink in moderation just like I don't have to make a conscious decision to seek out yummy food because I can unconsciously seek out yummy food so I can unconsciously drink in moderation. 
> 
> Alcohols might have to go through a little more discipline to drink in moderation, but I would think an alcoholic would much prefer being relatively buzzed to being sober.
> 
> And honestly, the only people I've known who had a problem with alcoholism were prevented by the state from consuming cannabis because they had to be drug tested for probation. I've never known anybody who could freely smoke cannabis and was also an alcoholic. So I believe the vast majority of alcoholism stems from cannabis prohibition. When my alcoholic friend was growing cannabis and had several ounces in jars in his room, he wasn't an alcoholic.


Fair points for some, and I'm the same way when it comes to alcohol after not liking how I used to blackout in college. However, I do still get cravings to drink, even if I only do so in moderation... That's not a problem for me, but as I said, some people are at the point with alcohol as I am with cigarettes, that moderation only leads back to addictive habit.

I absolutely agree that smoknig herb is an effective means to kick the habit, especially when it's far easier to kick the pot habit later (assuming you don't just end up with an addiction of not being sober, it doesn't necessarily have to just be related to any 1 drug).

So while you present some solutions for soem, you're simpyl neglecting those who have gone too far down a dwonward spiral for these means to be effective. For them, the best method is to find positive ways to replace it, and take it one day at a time.

----------


## dannno

> Also have nothing but respect for you man, but you're coming off as rather judgmental and short-sighted for someone who's typically open-minded to the real problems of the world.


I acknowledge that my alcoholic friend(s) may be wired differently than me, but really it comes down to they are always risk takers. They like gambling and most have had some bad experiences with hard drugs. It's a pattern, but it's not a pattern than can't be overcome.

There is a difference between alcohol addiction and people who are alcoholics, although most people addicted to alcohol are MOST LIKELY alcoholics. I could become addicted to alcohol if I didn't have to work and I set my mind to it, I could start drinking several drinks a day and get up to where I'm drinking a half a bottle or a bottle of vodka a day, every day. At some point, people who are addicted to alcohol who are drinking large quantities on a daily basis like this can actually DIE if they don't drink. These people need to slowly reduce their daily consumption of alcohol before they can quit. This is a chemical addiction and is more similar to cigarette addiction but even more severe.

People who are alcoholics may not have had anything to drink for 2 years, but they decide to slip back into drinking and may binge drink on their first night. This is psychological, although the drug may play INTO the psychology, that doesn't mean it isn't psychologically based. There is nothing stopping this person from buying a mini flask or a couple shots of liquor except their own mind. They actively choose to abuse the substance to the point where it hurts them. I don't know why they do it, often it is a self-destructive tendency whether they are angry/depressed or happy but I know it is something they could control if they consciously decided to do so because I've seen them do it for extended periods of time.

----------


## Confederate

> Terrible suggestion. Nyquil is loaded with acetamenophin. People who have tried this technique to stop drinking have loaded up on the Nyquil (and thus high doses of acetamenophin) and STILL drank heavily because they are alcoholics and have gone into acute liver failure and even died from this. 
> 
> High doses of acetamenophin with a lot of alcohol will shut down your liver and could kill you.
> 
> Not that I ever trust the government, but this source is right on.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2929565
> 
> I know a guy who was hospitalized for acute liver failure for trying exactly this while not being able to control his drinking. His eyes remained yellow for months after he got out of the hospital from the jaundice. Told me he almost died. After that he went into AA and has been sober since, though AA is no cure-all unless a true alcoholic really wants to stop.
> ...


Yeah acetaminophen/paracetamol + alcohol = great way to $#@! up your liver. 

That's why you should take ibuprofen and not acetaminophen/paracetamol for hangovers.

----------


## Confederate

> So is it like making out with a hot girl and then ending up going home with blue balls?





> Here's the thing, almost every liquor store has beer by the bottle.. and often your mid to high range tasting beers are sold by the bottle. What would happen if you got a single 12-20 oz bottle of good IPA or any kind of good tasting beer you want and bring it home, grill up a steak and drink your beer with dinner and pretend it's diet soda or something. Now try smoking a bowl. Do you REALLLY need to go out to the store at this point and get more alcohol?? Next night, repeat the process without the beer. The next night repeat the process with a beer. On friday and saturday you can have up to 40 oz of beer or 3 well drinks per night. Just make sure and go 2 or 3 nights a week without drinking. *Is that really that much more painful than staying completely sober and weirding out everybody else you know who enjoys drinking?*


You're really good at making yourself look like a moron, you know that?

----------


## liberty2897

> I love you Danno. There is, however no way that I personally can drink alcohol in moderation. I tried hundreds of times. I'm certainly not alone in that.


No, you're not alone in that.  I usually drink because I want to shift my perspective.  One or two doesn't do that for me.  I don't consider myself an alcoholic, but when I drink, I don't usually don't stop with one or two.  It has never caused me a problem with employment, but it has caused many other problems over the years.  Relationships suffer because of saying too much and being "loud" and sometimes argumentative.  I say stupid $#@! when I drink too much.  I feel stupid the next day after such events.  It doesn't matter if I go for a couple of weeks without doing this,  if I drink, I will regret it on occasion.  The only way I can prevent this is by not drinking.  People who don't understand that, don't understand that.  I think that is understandable since we all assess things based on our own experience and modes of operation.  For some people,  the only way to avoid the pitfalls of alcohol is to completely stop.   I already said it earlier in this thread, but smoking cannabis has effectively made my desire to drink alcohol disappear.  For me, it is a *much* better alternative to shift my perspective in a much more positive way.

----------


## dannno

> No, you're not alone in that.  I usually drink because I want to shift my perspective.  One or two doesn't do that for me.  I don't consider myself an alcoholic, but when I drink, I don't usually don't stop with one or two.  It has never caused me a problem with employment, but it has caused many other problems over the years.  Relationships suffer because of saying too much and being "loud" and sometimes argumentative.  I say stupid $#@! when I drink too much.  I feel stupid the next day after such events.  It doesn't matter if I go for a couple of weeks without doing this,  if I drink, I will regret it on occasion.  The only way I can prevent this is by not drinking.  People who don't understand that, don't understand that.  I think that is understandable since we all assess things based on our own experience and modes of operation.  For some people,  the only way to avoid the pitfalls of alcohol is to completely stop.   I already said it earlier in this thread, but smoking cannabis has effectively made my desire to drink alcohol disappear.  For me, it is a *much* better alternative to shift my perspective in a much more positive way.


Ok, so 1 or 2 doesn't "do it" for you, what about 3? Is there any middle ground where it makes you feel good and social but where you have enough control not to get too worked up? Would it be incredibly difficult or painful to actually keep track of how many drinks you've had and to limit yourself to a certain amount? I do it all the time, without much or any cravings to drink more, but even if the craving to drink more were there I don't understand why one wouldn't be able to make a conscious decision to limit the amount beforehand. In fact, maybe it's even good for you, maybe it helps build character?

I mean, if you had 1 or 2 drinks, is that really more painful than being sober? I pretty much start running a buzz after a sip or two of alcohol. I've been known to open a beer, drink half and find the other half still in the bottle the next morning. So obviously I have absolutely no frame of reference here. Is it really that painful to stop drinking after a few sips or a drink or two, even if it doesn't "do it" for you?

BTW, I am completely fine with choosing cannabis over drinking, I'm glad it has had a positive impact in your life. I just don't understand what is so painful about having a drink or two, and why that is more painful or difficult than staying sober for somebody who enjoys alcohol. I just think it's psychological. I had another friend who had some addictive tendencies in college that I believe spawned from his caffeine addiction. It started with alcohol, then cannabis, then finally nicotine. It was "all or nothing" for him, he'd get pretty f'd up and I'd ask him why he couldn't just have a couple rips and relax and he used to describe it that way (all or nothing). But once he left college it took a little while I think, for years he has been doing the moderation thing with drinking, cannabis and has quit nicotine (still addicted to caffeine tho). He doesn't even really work on it anymore, he usually gives up smoking before me now, after a couple hits maybe. He drinks very high quality alcohol in great moderation.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Alcoholics are pretty much all losers


Uhhh, you have never lived in DC apparently.

----------


## cjm

Without denying the existence of addiction, for those that have a strong habit they are trying to break, these articles from The Art of Manliness might be of interest.

Forging Habits of Steel: 7 Tips on Making and Breaking Habits

Excerpt:



> Men who feel like life is hard often have failed to form good habits. Every day is a struggle between what they want to do and what they end up doing instead. They can never find that groove, where the habits that make you stronger, healthier, and happier become almost automatic, giving you that feeling so central to a satisfied life: that of making continual progress.


Manvotional: Habit

Excerpt:



> Indeed, a bad habit is the last thing that most of us are afraid of. We think that we are acting always from our own choice, that it is no matter what we do now, because another time, whenever we wish, we can do differently. But all the while a certain habit is forming and hardening, until at last we find ourselves almost helpless. Thus, even our tastes, our amusements, our selection of books, the tendency even of our most secret thoughts, are becoming fixed, and *we are becoming permanently the persons we meant to be only for the moment.*






> Comment from "Rusty" December 13, 2010 at 1:08 pm
> 
> I was at a lecture given by Col. Mike Mullane (he gave me a free copy of his book, Riding Rockets, where he discusses it at length) where he spoke about something similar worth investigating: normalization of deviance. The idea is that you can never deviate from your principles without permanently damaging yourself, so it should be avoided. He spoke about setting principles as well, but I cannot do it justice. It is a good argument for why you should do it right, every time, even when youre tired, even when it doesnt matter, even when it causes delays, even when it costs a lot, even when it embarrasses you.
> 
> Excellent article. We are our habits it seems. I can see now why my dad emphasized good habits and best practices. Since learning about AoM, Ive started paying closer attention to him and his habits.


Unlocking the Science of Habits: How to Hack the Habit Loop & Become the Man You Want to Be

Excerpt:



> The permanence of bad habits shouldnt discourage you: Change is still possible according to the latest habit research. While you cant really get rid of a bad habit, it is possible to create more powerful good habits that simply override the bad ones. To do so, you need to understand exactly how habits are formed. Once you know the process by which our brain encodes habits, you can start tweaking the various components to change and create any habit you want. Author Charles Duhigg calls this habit forming process the Habit Loop.

----------


## pcosmar

> Uhhh, you have never lived in DC apparently.


That does not help the argument.

Though I have known several heavy drinkers that have been successful businessmen (and women).

----------


## Carson

> Going to stop drinking alcohol. Has anyone here done something similar in the past? Are there any supplements that help with this process? Does anyone have any tips or advice? Thank you.



Don't tell anyone. ?  Just do it. 

If you get others involved in the process you may end up getting them involved in the arguments in your mind if you start thinking about back sliding. It seems better to me to keep it simple and involved just with yourself. 

You get others involved and other things, like how long you've been without a drink, may come up and it gives alcohol or tobacco another grip on you and a reminder. You don't need any reminders.

It really is a personal thing. Then again there are as many ways of quitting as people that have quit. I think your going to have to find yours.

Maybe ask yourself if your really strong enough to quit. ? (Asking yourself that can muster some strength and will.)


Once I was in a holding tank and a really drunk guy was telling me how no one cared about him. He had a long list of people that he was thinking didn't care.

I thought about it and mentioned to him that maybe if he started caring about himself, others would also. (Though I think we all did already.)

----------


## jmdrake

+rep!  Good stuff!  We all have and are creatures of habit.  Habits overall are good things.  If you can drive and shift gears without having to consciously think "push in the clutch...now pull down and to the left...." you have a better reaction time.  The problem is when automatic reactions accomplish things that you really would rather not do because of the long term consequences.  But your brain can become conditioned to anticipate a reward even if it isn't there or if it's not really worth the consequences.  Really, understanding the habit loop helps put you truly back into control.  It is personal responsibility as opposed to denying personal responsibility.




> Without denying the existence of addiction, for those that have a strong habit they are trying to break, these articles from The Art of Manliness might be of interest.
> 
> Forging Habits of Steel: 7 Tips on Making and Breaking Habits
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> 
> Manvotional: Habit
> 
> ...

----------


## cjm

> Ok, so 1 or 2 doesn't "do it" for you, what about 3? Is there any middle ground where it makes you feel good and social but where you have enough control not to get too worked up? Would it be incredibly difficult or painful to actually keep track of how many drinks you've had and to limit yourself to a certain amount?


Hey Dannno, I can't answer this for liberty2897, but I can share some insights that I've picked up over the years through my own experiences and observations of friends and colleagues.

The big thing that many drinkers fail to realize (or fail to keep in mind) is that there is a lag between the time you consume the beverage and its full effects are realized.  That lag will vary with the speed in which one consumes a beverage.  When one finishes that first beer and feels a little relaxed, he doesn't necessarily recognize that it may be another 20 or 30 minutes before any "buzz" really sets in.  If you start that second beer before you've realized the full effects of the first, it's difficult to know what state you will be in thirty minutes later.  If the drinker usually drinks on a full stomach and this time it's an empty stomach, previous experiences will not be a good indicator of his sobriety.  So let's say someone is three beers into an evening but has only felt the effects of the first beer and a half, when "the guys" order another round, one might say to himself, "hey, I'm not too buzzed, I can have a fourth."  But while consuming the fourth beer, the first three finally take their full effect and poor decision making takes hold.  In other words, the intoxication "snuck up on you."  The number of drinks may vary from person to person depending on their tolerances and other factors, but the principle seems to hold.

This is why I posted on not drinking on an empty stomach or drinking when thirsty.  The beer that one has the most control over is that first one.  If that first one goes down in five minutes, the odds are not good for drinking in moderation.  If one takes an hour to finish that first beer, it's full effects are felt and one is less likely to "over drink."  So to answer your question, "yes," sometimes it's difficult to keep track of the number of drinks since most drinkers go by "I feel ok to drive" instead of counting ounces.  And once past the good-decision-making-barrier, you will find poor decisions.

----------


## Tpoints

> I love you Danno. There is, however no way that I personally can drink alcohol in moderation. I tried hundreds of times. I'm certainly not alone in that.


If you don't mind me asking, what happens when you don't drink at all? Do you have alcohol raining from the sky or a nice hoard of it? Does alcohol hold up a gun and force you to drink it? Are you unable to not purchase alcohol? Or is there somebody in your family that can't keep it out of your reach?

----------


## Tpoints

> *Alcohol actually has healthful benefits when drank in moderation.*


source please?

----------


## dannno

> Hey Dannno, I can't answer this for liberty2897, but I can share some insights that I've picked up over the years through my own experiences and observations of friends and colleagues.
> 
> The big thing that many drinkers fail to realize (or fail to keep in mind) is that there is a lag between the time you consume the beverage and its full effects are realized.  That lag will vary with the speed in which one consumes a beverage.  When one finishes that first beer and feels a little relaxed, he doesn't necessarily recognize that it may be another 20 or 30 minutes before any "buzz" really sets in.  If you start that second beer before you've realized the full effects of the first, it's difficult to know what state you will be in thirty minutes later.  If the drinker usually drinks on a full stomach and this time it's an empty stomach, previous experiences will not be a good indicator of his sobriety.  So let's say someone is three beers into an evening but has only felt the effects of the first beer and a half, when "the guys" order another round, one might say to himself, "hey, I'm not too buzzed, I can have a fourth."  But while consuming the fourth beer, the first three finally take their full effect and poor decision making takes hold.  In other words, the intoxication "snuck up on you."  The number of drinks may vary from person to person depending on their tolerances and other factors, but the principle seems to hold.
> 
> This is why I posted on not drinking on an empty stomach or drinking when thirsty.  The beer that one has the most control over is that first one.  If that first one goes down in five minutes, the odds are not good for drinking in moderation.  If one takes an hour to finish that first beer, it's full effects are felt and one is less likely to "over drink."  So to answer your question, "yes," sometimes it's difficult to keep track of the number of drinks since most drinkers go by "I feel ok to drive" instead of counting ounces.  And once past the good-decision-making-barrier, you will find poor decisions.


Excellent post, I almost always count my drinks when I'm drinking, or at least have a good estimate of where I'm at (I still binge drink a few times a year, but I'm always pretty safe about it). But that is something that I would think an experienced drinker would be conscious of but I guess that isn't always the case. I know a couple of times when I've gotten too drunk I remember getting peer pressured into that last shot thinking "oh no.. this is the one that's going to push me over the edge.. oh well, $#@! it, I guess I'm going to be a little ill tomorrow.." but the only reason I take it is because when I get over the edge drunk/wasted I tend to head home and go to sleep rather than getting into trouble. So my main motivation for not drinking too much is not being sick the next day. If my motivation was staying out of jail, I would think I could stick with my decision to say 'no' to that last shot pretty easily.

----------


## Confederate

> source please?


http://www.thirdage.com/long-life-ti...than-you-think
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/features...nd-your-health
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...9.02082.x/full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19298457
http://www.livestrong.com/article/55...ts-of-alcohol/

----------


## kathy88

> If you don't mind me asking, what happens when you don't drink at all? Do you have alcohol raining from the sky or a nice hoard of it? Does alcohol hold up a gun and force you to drink it? Are you unable to not purchase alcohol? Or is there somebody in your family that can't keep it out of your reach?


You are a full on retard aren't you?

----------


## Tpoints

> http://www.thirdage.com/long-life-ti...than-you-think
> http://www.webmd.com/cancer/features...nd-your-health
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...9.02082.x/full
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19298457
> http://www.livestrong.com/article/55...ts-of-alcohol/


does concentration matter? I mean, can I add it into food in a way that'll be undetectable or impossible to intoxicate me?

----------


## Tpoints

> You are a full on retard aren't you?


you can call me names, or you can answer my question and actually make me feel stupid.

----------


## Confederate

> does concentration matter? I mean, can I add it into food in a way that'll be undetectable or impossible to intoxicate me?


Alcohol evaporates when you cook with it. Ethanol boils at only about 170°

----------


## Tpoints

> Alcohol evaporates when you cook with it. Ethanol boils at only about 170°


could be cold. or I can add it when it's cooled down.

----------


## Confederate

> could be cold. or I can add it when it's cooled down.


Or just have a glass of wine with dinner...

----------


## Tpoints

> Or just have a glass of wine with dinner...


but that would be 1) tastable 2) if I was an alcoholic who can't control my consumption, I wouldn't stop there. 

That's why I asked.

----------


## klamath

> Alcohol evaporates when you cook with it. Ethanol boils at only about 170°


Hmmmm. Just how would you know that......

----------


## kathy88

> you can call me names, or you can answer my question and actually make me feel stupid.


which question? You asked like five and not one of them made sense.

----------


## Tpoints

> which question? You asked like five and not one of them made sense.


Ok, let's start over 

1) why is it impossible for you to drink in moderation (actually, I think I know this one, you can't control yourself, next)
2) what happens when you don't drink at all?
3) is not drinking at all doable? If not, why not? Do you have too much you can't get rid of? Do you cave into peer pressure? Do you have no way of keeping it out of your reach? Does it never hurt your pocket?

Answer whichever one makes sense to you. And I will try to rephrase what  you don't answer.

----------


## kathy88

I haven't had a drink in ten years. So none of these questions are really applicable, are they?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Excellent post, I almost always count my drinks when I'm drinking, or at least have a good estimate of where I'm at (I still binge drink a few times a year, but I'm always pretty safe about it). But that is something that I would think an experienced drinker would be conscious of but I guess that isn't always the case. I know a couple of times when I've gotten too drunk I remember getting peer pressured into that last shot thinking "oh no.. this is the one that's going to push me over the edge.. oh well, $#@! it, I guess I'm going to be a little ill tomorrow.." but the only reason I take it is because when I get over the edge drunk/wasted I tend to head home and go to sleep rather than getting into trouble. *So my main motivation for not drinking too much is not being sick the next day.* _If my motivation was staying out of jail, I would think I could stick with my decision to say 'no' to that last shot pretty easily._


Danno. I can drink this whole damn fifth of E&J, these three quarts of beer, and still walk, talk, and comprehend relatively smoothly. (And ya' know what, chances are pretty damn good I will. I didn't drink yesterday but this thread really had me 'itching' for a drink. Anxiety if you will. And no I am not trying to take any blame off of myself. I know I'm a generally self-destructive person and what I touch usually will turn to $#@!, hence my life. But it is what it is.) I guess you could label me a high functioning 'drunk.' People who are literally addicted to alcohol (needing detox to actually stop cold turkey without medical complications) laugh when you say things like, 'I count my drinks, I stop when I know I'll have a hangover' etc. I bet you have a bottle collection, amiright? My garbagemen probably hate my ass for all the bottles that I throw away, seemingly daily. I don't get hangovers. I don't count drinks. I don't measure shots. And I drink my brandy straight. Spare me and a few other people who have been there, the one drink and stop bull$#@!. I can smoke one bowl and stop. I can smoke one to two cigarettes a day, as I've been doing for the last few weeks, and stop. But when I start drinking, I don't stop/won't stop/can't stop. (Take your pick) It's quite hard to analyze your own situation to try and determine why that is. Whether it's genetics (which I believe do play a role, i.e addictive personalities) or who knows. It's slightly offensive that you say just stop after one drink etc. I used to feel like you on that one. So I suppose I'll give the advice many people (*good alcoholics*) tried to give me when I was younger. Just stop, while you're ahead. (Of your addiction, that is) Because you never can really tell when you'll cross that line. Social drinking is fine and all, but that's where everyone starts. No one dreams their idea of heaven would be waking up to an ice cold beer and a shot. Cue the ridicule.

----------


## Confederate

> Hmmmm. Just how would you know that......


High school chemistry and I like to cook with alcohol (Gran Marnier, beer, bourbon, white wine, etc)

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> High school chemistry and I like to cook with alcohol (Gran Marnier, beer, bourbon, white wine, etc)


Beer battered fish is sure sounding like a good idea for Saturday. I might have to make it happen. Either that or some brats on the grill.

----------


## brandon

> I don't get hangovers. .


Do you think this makes you lucky or unlucky? I ask seriously. I get terrible hangovers which is really the only thing that has stopped me from being a daily drunk.  I only drink about once a week because of how hungover I get.  I feel ya on the rest of your post though.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Do you think this makes you lucky or unlucky? I ask seriously. I get terrible hangovers which is really the only thing that has stopped me from being a daily drunk.  I only drink about once a week because of how hungover I get.  I feel ya on the rest of your post though.


That is a hard question. I'd like to believe hangovers would curb my drinking, though I really don't think they would. (at this point, anyways) I guess I'd say a little bit of both. My 'hangovers' aren't what you would consider a hangover. (headache, stomachache, sensitivity to light etc.) My 'hangovers' are wondering who I might have offended and what relationship I probably ruined. I generally am shamed and feel like an $#@! the next day after a long night of drinking. That affected me a hell of a lot more than feeling sick.

----------


## liberty2897

> Ok, so 1 or 2 doesn't "do it" for you, what about 3? Is there any middle ground where it makes you feel good and social but where you have enough control not to get too worked up? Would it be incredibly difficult or painful to actually keep track of how many drinks you've had and to limit yourself to a certain amount? I do it all the time, without much or any cravings to drink more, but even if the craving to drink more were there I don't understand why one wouldn't be able to make a conscious decision to limit the amount beforehand. In fact, maybe it's even good for you, maybe it helps build character?
> 
> I mean, if you had 1 or 2 drinks, is that really more painful than being sober? I pretty much start running a buzz after a sip or two of alcohol. I've been known to open a beer, drink half and find the other half still in the bottle the next morning. So obviously I have absolutely no frame of reference here. Is it really that painful to stop drinking after a few sips or a drink or two, even if it doesn't "do it" for you?
> 
> BTW, I am completely fine with choosing cannabis over drinking, I'm glad it has had a positive impact in your life. I just don't understand what is so painful about having a drink or two, and why that is more painful or difficult than staying sober for somebody who enjoys alcohol. I just think it's psychological. I had another friend who had some addictive tendencies in college that I believe spawned from his caffeine addiction. It started with alcohol, then cannabis, then finally nicotine. It was "all or nothing" for him, he'd get pretty f'd up and I'd ask him why he couldn't just have a couple rips and relax and he used to describe it that way (all or nothing). But once he left college it took a little while I think, for years he has been doing the moderation thing with drinking, cannabis and has quit nicotine (still addicted to caffeine tho). He doesn't even really work on it anymore, he usually gives up smoking before me now, after a couple hits maybe. He drinks very high quality alcohol in great moderation.


Well,  I think kcchiefs6465 last couple of posts really summarized a lot of what I've been trying to say (said it much better than myself).   I find this thread very interesting so far.  I started to write something earlier offline.  I was going to work on it some more, but I think I'm going to just post it as-is since kcchiefs6465 already said it very well.  One thing I would say about myself, is that I don't take offense if people want to call it whatever or can't understand.  I don't really understand it myself.

------  what I wrote offline earlier:

Personally,  I don't consider someone who drinks too much an alcoholic.  I 
don't know what the official definition is, but I would probably say an
alcoholic is someone who drinks when they don't even want to and most likely
drinks a lot regardless of the consequences.  You don't have to be an alcoholic
to have alcohol cause problems in your life.  I guess it is hard to explain,
but when I decide to drink, I *want* to drink and I want to **feel* it*.  I want to
*"change the channel"*.  Unless I make the decision that "I don't drink anymore",
then I *will* drink too much **intentionally** on a periodic basis. What causes 
me to make this decision?  I don't know.  Maybe I am an alcoholic.

----------


## Tpoints

> I haven't had a drink in ten years. So none of these questions are really applicable, are they?


Did I, or did I not read you saying "drinking in moderation doesn't work for me"?

----------


## amonasro

> Do you think this makes you lucky or unlucky? I ask seriously. I get terrible hangovers which is really the only thing that has stopped me from being a daily drunk.  I only drink about once a week because of how hungover I get.  I feel ya on the rest of your post though.


He doesn't get hangovers because he drinks to get rid of them. Hair of the dog. It works.

----------


## Professor8000

I've quit booze, weed, cigarettes and pretty much anything intoxicating. I will say this, cigarettes were the hardest thing to quit. It took over a year for me to stop having cravings. As for the booze, I just quit cold turkey and stopped hanging around people who liked to get drunk. Now for fun I do things that that involve high powered rifles, 4x4 trucks and high explosives... I need all my whits about me for that.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> He doesn't get hangovers because he drinks to get rid of them. Hair of the dog. It works.


I don't get hangovers because I've drank too damn much for too damn long. Start trying that 'hair of the dog' bull$#@! and you will understand what I'm talking about before long.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I've quit booze, weed, cigarettes and pretty much anything intoxicating. I will say this, cigarettes were the hardest thing to quit. It took over a year for me to stop having cravings. As for the booze, I just quit cold turkey and stopped hanging around people who liked to get drunk. Now for fun I do things that that involve high powered rifles, 4x4 trucks and high explosives... I need all my whits about me for that.


See, I quit cigarettes the easiest. I smoked for 10+ years with 5+ of them being around a pack of day. I quit cigarettes basically cold turkey. (though I smoked a hell of a lot of cannabis to compensate cravings) I just recently started smoking again because of, quite honestly, the cold. I didn't always have a place of my own and a cigarette helped me with giving me a moment to relax while thinking of where I could/would go next. I've been smoking for the last two years after being clean for around the same amount of time. I can't seem to 'kick' alcohol as easily. I've stated it earlier however in that you probably wouldn't be able to tell I'm suffering the way I am. For instance, I have about a quarter of a fifth left, and have bought two more quarts. 

ETA: To clarify the last sentence I am saying that I am usually pretty sharp when drunk/drinking. Of course there is a point where I steeply go downhill with my comprehension/speech skills.

----------


## tmg19103

> You actually buy that horse$#@!?
> 
> People make choices. Some choose poorly.


Absolutely. I don't have my head in the sand.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199...runc_sys.shtml

----------


## Professor8000

> See, I quit cigarettes the easiest. I smoked for 10+ years with 5+ of them being around a pack of day. I quit cigarettes basically cold turkey. (though I smoked a hell of a lot of cannabis to compensate cravings) I just recently started smoking again because of, quite honestly, the cold. I didn't always have a place of my own and a cigarette helped me with giving me a moment to relax while thinking of where I could/would go next. I've been smoking for the last two years after being clean for around the same amount of time. I can't seem to 'kick' alcohol as easily. I've stated it earlier however in that you probably wouldn't be able to tell I'm suffering the way I am. For instance, I have about a quarter of a fifth left, and have bought two more quarts. 
> 
> ETA: To clarify the last sentence I am saying that I am usually pretty sharp when drunk/drinking. Of course there is a point where I steeply go downhill with my comprehension/speech skills.


I quit everything cold turkey. The booze wasn't that bad for me as long as I stayed away from situations that made me want to drink. The cigarettes were horrible. Once I had stopped, I would still have cravings for over a year. I had quit cannabis long before I stopped the cigarettes and the booze, so I didn't have anything but my own determination to help me through the process.

----------


## bolil

Funny thing about alcohol is, in my experience, all of the outrageously stupid $#@! I've done I did drunk.

-Started smoking cigarettes
-Inflicted emotional pain on people I love
-Wound up in ward
-"
-Broke my hip falling off a bike
-Picked a fight with a big un'
-Broke my nose falling off a bike
-Big un' broke my nose again
-kept on sippin
-Failed out of college
-Posted insulting, accusatory threads on a forum
-slept with large women
-Hernia from above


Yup, and I didn't start drinking until I was 21... now I am 24

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## AFPVet

> Excellent post, I almost always count my drinks when I'm drinking, or at least have a good estimate of where I'm at (I still binge drink a few times a year, but I'm always pretty safe about it). But that is something that I would think an experienced drinker would be conscious of but I guess that isn't always the case. I know a couple of times when I've gotten too drunk I remember getting peer pressured into that last shot thinking "oh no.. this is the one that's going to push me over the edge.. oh well, $#@! it, I guess I'm going to be a little ill tomorrow.." but the only reason I take it is because when I get over the edge drunk/wasted I tend to head home and go to sleep rather than getting into trouble. So my main motivation for not drinking too much is not being sick the next day. If my motivation was staying out of jail, I would think I could stick with my decision to say 'no' to that last shot pretty easily.


Your body has a way of reminding you when you've drank too much... the next day lol. In all seriousness though, I don't recommend more than two regular size glasses of wine on an occasion. If you want to feel a buzz, there is a better way... cannabis will give you a buzz without the hangover or stress on the organs.

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