# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Justin Amash Forum >  if Amash wins he has to be the front runner for VP

## cindy25

there are so few for Rand to consider.  Mike Lee brings nothing, Raul Labrador might bring some Hispanics but Amash brings Arabs (who block vote, and a normally Dem) and Michigan  .

add FL and OH, and Rand wins

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## CaptUSA

I don't want to burst your bubble here, but let's think about this rationally.

First, Rand has to win the nomination.  If we are able to make this happen, the party will suffer a severe shake-up.  It will be dramatic.  The make-up of both parties will be permanently altered.  As much as you may not like it, he may have to pick someone who can make people comfortable.  That means someone with executive experience.  Someone who the rest of the party feels comfortable with.  (See Reagan/Bush)

Now, certainly that doesn't mean he'll have to pick someone like Bush or Christie.  There are other governors that will work.  McDaniels?  Kasich?  Ugh.  Just prepare yourself for it to be a bland pick.

Anyway, let's focus on the primary first.  Otherwise, this discussion is entirely moot.

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## cajuncocoa

If he picks Bush, I will fear for Rand's safety.

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## thoughtomator

Cindy, you're drunk

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## erowe1

I like Amash. I think he'd be a great choice. But the Arab vote is not big enough to be noticeable.

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## Kotin

Uh no.

You don't pick a freshman congressman who cannot help with getting more votes at all..

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## William Tell

> Uh no.
> 
> You don't pick a freshman congressman who cannot help with getting more votes at all..


He is not a freshman, but I doubt he will be picked.

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## Cap

Amash certainly!

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## Kotin

> He is not a freshman, but I doubt he will be picked.


for all intents and purposes and as far as a presidential race goes, he is.

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## William Tell

> for all intents and purposes and as far as a presidential race goes, he is.


Rand is too, if you look at it that way. I guess Rand technically is a freshman, as he has only won one race.

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## cindy25

> I like Amash. I think he'd be a great choice. But the Arab vote is not big enough to be noticeable.


it is enough to flip Michigan

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## jurgs01

Rand will select a conservative woman. There aren't any prominent libertarian women ready for this. Nikki Haley seems like a logical choice, though most here wouldn't like it. Mia Love isn't ready for prime time.

Ben Carson would be an interesting choice. It's obvious that he's not libertarian, and has a lot of waffling when it comes to basic rights like the second amendment, but he could handle himself well in the public limelight.

I think people here need to relegate themselves to the face that Rand will not choose a liberty person for VP if he gets to that point. Let's just all hope he isn't forced into choosing a NEOCON. As a previous poster said, I would fear for his safety if a NEOCON was in the VP slot.

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## juleswin

> Uh no.
> 
> You don't pick a freshman congressman who cannot help with getting more votes at all..


Not just the votes, you also need someone who can help you raise funds and Amash doesn't satisfy either of those roles. If Rand picks Amash as VP, I will then know he has finally gone full retard and we all know there's not coming back from full retard.

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## NewRightLibertarian

Amash would be a perfect VP. Since the VP doesn't really do anything but go around and give speeches, it would give Amash a huge platform to spread the liberty message. It would also give Rand some insurance in case the powers that be try to JFK his ass.

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## Brett85

> I like Amash. I think he'd be a great choice. But the Arab vote is not big enough to be noticeable.


I think it's actually pretty big in Michigan.

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## NewRightLibertarian

> I think it's actually pretty big in Michigan.


Indeed. It would also make it much more difficult for the Dems to demagogue Rand.

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## William Tell

> Rand will select a conservative woman. 
> 
> Ben Carson would be an interesting choice.


Yeah, Ben is one of the more interesting conservative women.

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## PaleoPaul

Susana Martinez.  Latina AND female.  She'd help paint the entire Southwest red.  Rand would win New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada, which all went blue the past 2 election cycles.

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## KEEF

I think Herman Cain would be an excellent VP choice for Rand 9, 9, 9!!  <sarc>

No but in all seriousness, CaptUSA is right, we need to focus on the primaries first.

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## Vanguard101

I don't even want Amash to be the VP. Who's going to lead the Liberty Caucus? I'm sure Massie or anyone else could, but Amash is the face of the Conservative wing in the GOP. I rarely hear people talk about any1 else other than Amash. He could be our speaker or house majority. Rand wouldn't pick Bush. No offense, but most of the minorities for the exception of Haley, Jindal, and Carson all seem retarded. He won't pick Jindal. Carson? Probably not but that's the wisest pick to appease everyone. Even if Rand was shot, Carson is way to religious to compromise himself.

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## jurgs01

> I don't even want Amash to be the VP. Who's going to lead the Liberty Caucus? I'm sure Massie or anyone else could, but Amash is the face of the Conservative wing in the GOP. I rarely hear people talk about any1 else other than Amash. He could be our speaker or house majority. Rand wouldn't pick Bush. No offense, but most of the minorities for the exception of Haley, Jindal, and Carson all seem retarded. He won't pick Jindal. Carson? Probably not but that's the wisest pick to appease everyone. Even if Rand was shot, Carson is way to religious to compromise himself.


My ideal situation for 2016:
-Rand Paul elected president
-Mike Lee Senate majority leader
-Justin Amash speaker of the House
-First Libertarian party member elected to congress
-Liberal judge resigns from Supreme court and Judge Nap appointed
-Fed Chairman appointed who doesn't believe in fiat currency and ideally supports free-market currencies

That would be a great year IMHO. I would be happy if one or two of those things happened.

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## CaptUSA

> My ideal situation for 2016:
> -Rand Paul elected president
> -Mike Lee Senate majority leader
> -Justin Amash speaker of the House
> -First Libertarian party member elected to congress
> -Liberal judge resigns from Supreme court and Judge Nap appointed
> -Fed Chairman appointed who doesn't believe in fiat currency and ideally supports free-market currencies
> 
> That would be a great year IMHO. I would be happy if one or two of those things happened.


WOW.

My ideal situation for 2016:
-All the bombs would turn into seed and fertilizer and would grow happiness wherever they landed.
-The bullets would turn into butterflies and just flitter away.
-Our wallets and pockets would be filled with rainbows and they'd become the new currency.
-Pollution would disappear because we'd all ride unicorns for transportation.
-You could eat all you want and never gain weight, because any excess would fill the bellies of those without.
-Congress would repeal more laws than they pass.

Now.  Tell me which one of us is living in a fantasy land?

Seriously, it's nice to dream.  But in order to affect reality, we have to be aware of it.

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## LibertyEsq

I would like Amash for VP if he was maybe 4-5 years older. Not that he couldn't do the job - but the media would be all over him for being too inexperienced/not prepared to be President.

On paper, Susana Martinez is probably the best pick from a strategic perspective. But I would go with Nikki Haley if I were Rand and got nominated - perfect for energizing the conservative-but-not-quite-libertarian base, and probably closer to Rand/more trustworthy on most issues than Martinez. And she's both a woman and ethnic minority, for the people who vote based on things like that.

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## TaftFan

More and more I think Jim DeMint would be the best pick.

He wouldn't cost us a seat in Congress, he is a revered conservative who is open to liberty, and he doesn't ignite hatred among the left like Cruz, mainly because of his personality.

Raul Labrador would remain at the top of my list. His dovishness on foreign policy blends with Rand's.

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## jurgs01

> More and more I think Jim DeMint would be the best pick.
> 
> He wouldn't cost us a seat in Congress, he is a revered conservative who is open to liberty, and he doesn't ignite hatred among the left like Cruz, mainly because of his personality.
> 
> Raul Labrador would remain at the top of my list. His dovishness on foreign policy blends with Rand's.


Neither Raul Labrador nor Jim Demint pulls in any swing states or a specific group (unfortunately).

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## MelissaWV

Yah... quick... let's make sure to pull the people that are making a difference in the House/Senate out of those roles to fill the shoes of Joe Biden.  We know how very important he is (???), so it really won't matter when those seats are filled by people who'll have votes, and use them to kill liberty and introduce idiocy.

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## brandon

Obv won't be Amash. I bet it would be some minority though. Maybe Rubio or Ben Carson?  Or maybe a woman?

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## jurgs01

> Obv won't be Amash. I bet it would be some minority though. Maybe Rubio or Ben Carson?  Or maybe a woman?


Maybe Tim Scott?

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## Brett85

> Neither Raul Labrador nor Jim Demint pulls in any swing states or a specific group (unfortunately).


A Hispanic wouldn't pull a specific group?

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## ClydeCoulter

IF Rand pulls off the primary, he's already done his job in that category.  The next step is the independent vote and dem-xovers which will not be as hard as it might seem, for him.  

Amash would pull independents, and some xovers.  But is that where we want him, in the co-pilots seat, or where he has made great strides?  2016 is a bit off into the future yet.

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## MichaelDavis

> A Hispanic wouldn't pull a specific group?


Labrador is Puerto Rican. Mexicans do not identify with Puerto Ricans. It's like if you're German-American and people expect you to vote for Chris Christie because he's Italian-American and you both descend from Europe.

I don't see how Susana Martinez is not selected. She checks almost ever box. Mexican-American? Check. Female? Check. Catholic? Check. From a potential swing state? Check. She complements Rand Paul, who can ignite caucasians, males, red state voters, protestants, etc.

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## Vanguard101

Actually, I think Jim Demint could be a decent pick. If Jon Huntsman was hawkish, he could be perfect as well.

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## LibertyEsq

> Actually, I think Jim Demint could be a decent pick. If Jon Huntsman was hawkish, he could be perfect as well.


There's no reason to pick a hawk for VP. Rand will be more conservative than Romney or McCain and therefore already have the base locked up. Picking a hawk would be worse with Independents and Democrats, not better.

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## Vanguard101

> There's no reason to pick a hawk for VP. Rand will be more conservative than Romney or McCain and therefore already have the base locked up. Picking a hawk would be worse with Independents and Democrats, not better.


There are legitimate hawks that will vote for Hilary. Mccain wasn't the only person. One of the Republican Party of Texas staffers admitted she would vote for Hilary over Rand. That is really the only base we don't have locked up.

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## LibertyEsq

> There are legitimate hawks that will vote for Hilary. Mccain wasn't the only person. One of the Republican Party of Texas staffers admitted she would vote for Hilary over Rand. That is really the only base we don't have locked up.


I'd rather not lock it up. How about kicking them out of the party. Look at the poll that says 22% of all Americans (either party) are hawks, with 67% non-interventionists. Rand is doing the best against Hillary right now for a reason.

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## TaftFan

> Neither Raul Labrador nor Jim Demint pulls in any swing states or a specific group (unfortunately).


I believe the swing state aspect is overrated. 

If the state is a swing state in the presidential race, it is also probably a swing state for the governor or senator being chosen for VP. There isn't a really good reason to expect they can bring in more votes than they would already.

Labrador wouldn't be too helpful with Hispanics, as I think the racial-voting aspect is also overrated, but his main function would be to insulate Rand from racist attacks. And his foreign policy and immigration views line up well with Rand's. 

DeMint would be awesome with securing the base, so he would be pulling people in. Rand is already reaching out to minorities, independents, and young people. We need to make sure the base turns out, because many didn't for McCain and Romney. He is more dovish on foreign policy and defended Ron Paul, who he worked with on issues like the Fed. I think he and Rand would make a great team.

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## Krugminator2

> DeMint would be awesome with securing the base, so he would be pulling people in. Rand is already reaching out to minorities, independents, and young people. We need to make sure the base turns out, because many didn't for McCain and Romney. He is more dovish on foreign policy and defended Ron Paul, who he worked with on issues like the Fed. I think he and Rand would make a great team.


The absolute least of Rand's concerns is securing the base.  There  is a reason he has stopped pandering to the base and gone in the opposite direction.  His actual record and statements would make him the farthest right candidate ever if he were the nominee.  It would be hard imagine him not picking an establishment VP.

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## BamaAla

Amash would be fun, but it's probably unrealistic. This far out it's all speculation, but I'd guess a Republican governor from the mid-west...Scott Walker or John Kasich.

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## Anti-Neocon

> I don't see how Susana Martinez is not selected. She checks almost ever box. Mexican-American? Check. Female? Check. Catholic? Check. From a potential swing state? Check. She complements Rand Paul, who can ignite caucasians, males, red state voters, protestants, etc.


Yeah she could sure help with the amnesty vote.

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## Vanguard101

> I'd rather not lock it up. How about kicking them out of the party. Look at the poll that says 22% of all Americans (either party) are hawks, with 67% non-interventionists. Rand is doing the best against Hillary right now for a reason.


That's a helluva lot of voters. You also have to remember that a lot of people do hate Obama so anything he does they will probably hate.

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## Foreigner

What about Michael Steele for VP? Black conservative, but less controversial than Carson. Establishment credentials, to soothe tensions about Rand being picked as the presidential candidate. (former leader of the RNC) Outspoken about the need for a less aggressive foreign policy, supportive of Rand in interviews. Carson could be great, but does it work in the 21st century to have a candidate that speaks his mind all the time?

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## TaftFan

> What about Michael Steele for VP? Black conservative, but less controversial than Carson. Establishment credentials, to soothe tensions about Rand being picked as the presidential candidate. (former leader of the RNC) Outspoken about the need for a less aggressive foreign policy, supportive of Rand in interviews. Carson could be great, but does it work in the 21st century to have a candidate that speaks his mind all the time?


He is really, really boring. Just too boring.

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## jbauer

> What about Michael Steele for VP? Black conservative, but less controversial than Carson. Establishment credentials, to soothe tensions about Rand being picked as the presidential candidate. (former leader of the RNC) Outspoken about the need for a less aggressive foreign policy, supportive of Rand in interviews. Carson could be great, but does it work in the 21st century to have a candidate that speaks his mind all the time?


I don't know, Biden does and look what people think of him?

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## RonPaulMall

> Neither Raul Labrador nor Jim Demint pulls in any swing states or a specific group (unfortunately).


Nobody pulls in swing states or a "specific group". That nonsense has been thoroughly discredited in recent years, which is why the past two Vice President's have been white guys from Wyoming and Delaware, respectively. The most important qualification for a VP candidate is that he doesn't embarrass or hurt the ticket. If the press stops talking about the VP forever the week after he's named, you have made a good choice. The most important thing for Rand is to find not only a good candidate from a political standpoint, but also one that is at least somewhat similar from an ideological standpoint. Otherwise he'll never get out of his first term alive. 

DeMint is a poor choice because he would be a lightening rod of criticism. The left may not hate him as much as Cruz, but DeMint was their Cruz before Cruz came on the scene.

Mike Lee is a good choice but for the fact he's a sitting Senator. We don't have that many pro-liberty folks in the Senate and since we are already losing Paul in this scenario, how does it make any sense to give up Lee too?   

Amash is a little young and might be too risky. He's _far more_ libertarian than Paul and that will attract high levels of constant media attention. The media will portray him as a spoiled trust fund Ayn Rand freak. Amash needs to continue to build his reputation and body of work in the House. He has a bright future but VP in 2016 is not the right path for either him or Rand. 

Labrador is the best choice. He's careful and well polished. He's well liked in the House. His media story (Puerto Rican son of a single mother becomes lawyer) doesn't give the Left any room to attack. And he's ideologically similar enough to Paul that there is no advantage for anybody in ordering Paul killed. Bonus in that Mormons have deep pockets and support their own.

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## Vanguard101

> Nobody pulls in swing states or a "specific group". That nonsense has been thoroughly discredited in recent years, which is why the past two Vice President's have been white guys from Wyoming and Delaware, respectively. The most important qualification for a VP candidate is that he doesn't embarrass or hurt the ticket. If the press stops talking about the VP forever the week after he's named, you have made a good choice. The most important thing for Rand is to find not only a good candidate from a political standpoint, but also one that is at least somewhat similar from an ideological standpoint. Otherwise he'll never get out of his first term alive. 
> 
> DeMint is a poor choice because he would be a lightening rod of criticism. The left may not hate him as much as Cruz, but DeMint was their Cruz before Cruz came on the scene.
> 
> Mike Lee is a good choice but for the fact he's a sitting Senator. We don't have that many pro-liberty folks in the Senate and since we are already losing Paul in this scenario, how does it make any sense to give up Lee too?   
> 
> Amash is a little young and might be too risky.* He's far more libertarian than Paul* and that will attract high levels of constant media attention. The media will portray him as a spoiled trust fund Ayn Rand freak. Amash needs to continue to build his reputation and body of work in the House. He has a bright future but VP in 2016 is not the right path for either him or Rand. 
> 
> Labrador is the best choice. He's careful and well polished. He's well liked in the House. His media story (Puerto Rican son of a single mother becomes lawyer) doesn't give the Left any room to attack. And he's ideologically similar enough to Paul that there is no advantage for anybody in ordering Paul killed. Bonus in that Mormons have deep pockets and support their own.


This is untrue. Paul is by far the most libertarian member in Congress. Unless you mean he comes off as more libertarian.

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## erowe1

> This is untrue. Paul is by far the most libertarian member in Congress. Unless you mean he comes off as more libertarian.


Why do you say that?

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## Vanguard101

> Why do you say that?


Paul has taken more libertarian leaning positions. To put it in terms of austrian perspectives, Amash is more like Hayek and Paul is more like Rothbard

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## erowe1

> Paul has taken more libertarian leaning positions.


Like what?

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