# Lifestyles & Discussion > Peace Through Religion >  What we do matters in Christ---Seeing God in others

## Terry1

*Seeing God in Others

http://schwebster.org/sermons/2013/seeing-god-in-others*

An ancient legend tells of a mighty king who had no son, and thus, no heir to the throne. The king sent out couriers to all the towns of his kingdom to post signs which invited any qualified young man to come and interview as a possible successor to the throne. There were only two qualifications  the man had to truly love the king and to truly love His fellow man.

A very faithful and devout lad lived in one of the towns, and happened to see this sign of the king. This humble, poor young man surely loved his king, and always was doing good for others. Still, he didnt think himself worthy to go for an interview with the king until many of the people he constantly helped day in and day out convinced him to go to the castle and interview with the king. Still, he had one problem he was so poor that he didnt have any clothes fit to meet a king, and he had no money or provisions for the journey to the castle. Day after day, the young man begged here and borrowed there, slowly collecting enough money to buy appropriate clothing and the necessary supplies for the trip.

Properly attired and well suited, the young man started off on his journey. At almost the end of his journey, though, he came across this poor, old beggar, clothed only in tattered rags. The beggar called out in desperation to the traveler, Please help a poor man. I have no food, and am freezing in the cold. In honor of the king, please help me.

The young man was so moved by the beggars need, that he immediately stripped off his new clothes and traded them with the beggar for his rags. He then gave the beggar all his provisions, without a second thought for how he would make the return trip.

After leaving the beggar, he hesitantly continued his journey towards the kings palace, unsure whether to even go in, since he was now dressed in rags. When he arrived, however,  an attendant showed him into the great hall. Here, dressed in the beggars rags, he came before the mighty king and bowed low before his majesty. When he raised his eyes, he gasped aloud at who he saw. You?!? Bu.. Bu but youre the beggar on the street!
Yes! the king replied with a twinkle in his eyes. I was the beggar because I wanted to see who of the young men coming to my interview truly loved their fellow man in need as much as they claimed to love the king! Of course, everyone who comes to my palace and sees me in all my power and glory will proclaim love and loyalty to me as their king. But very few people treat the poor beggars the same way they claim to treat the king. Your actions today show me that you truly do love your king, as well as your fellow man!

Our Lord Jesus teaches the same lesson in todays Gospel reading of the Last Judgment. Come you who are blessed by my Father. For I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me to drink. I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and in prison and you visited me.
Both those saved and those condemned looked perplexed, asking the same question. When, Lord, did we see you hungry or thirsty or naked or in prison or sick? And to this Jesus replied, whenever you did it to the least of these my brothers and sisters, you did it to me.
Love for God and love for our neighbor represent a united love. We cant separate our love for God from our love for others. If we dont love our neighbor, and care for him just as we would care for our Lord, than we truly cant claim to have authentic love for God.

*Here is the heart of the Gospel, and of all the teachings of Jesus Christ.* We know that the greatest commandments are to love God and love one another, but today we realize that such love can never be simple theory. Instead the two loves are intertwined in concrete actions. In fact, through these actions we come to understand that love for God and love for the other are one and the same, precisely because God lives within each person. We can see Gods divine image in each person, IF we look carefully enough.

I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me to drink. I was naked and you clothed me. I was alone in prison, and in the hospital, and you visited me. Come you who are blessed by my Father. For whatever you did for one of these least of my brothers or sisters, you did for me.
What is so intriguing here is that according to this passage, we will not be judged by our number of prayers, our Church attendance, our ability to fast, or by following some other religious regulations, but we will be judged by one factor  our ability to love in a concrete, yet simple manner. And no person, no matter how poor they are, can find an excuse for not fulfilling this command.

Christ doesnt say, You didnt solve the world problems of hunger, but I was hungry and you fed me. Jesus didnt say, You didnt heal me from my illnesses, but I was sick and you visited me. And he didnt complain, I was in prison and you didnt free me. No, instead, he judges us because we didnt do what was within our ability  a simple visit of love.

God waits, and seeks for us to do little acts, but with great love! Small acts, but with extraordinary love. That is our call as Christians!
And remember, no where do we see God telling us to offer love to only those who deserve it. It doesnt depend on us to analyze and determine whether we should help the other  our acts of love need to be spontaneous acts springing from a heart full of the love of God! We dont need to judge why one is in prison, why one is hungry, why one is naked. Maybe they made some mistakes in their lives, and one day they will have to give an account before Christ for themselves. But we also will be judged for what we know God expects from us, and for our inability to fulfill His commandments.
As we Orthodox around the world prepare for the great journey of Lent which begins February 23 - a journey that partially begins today on MEATFARE SUNDAY (from today we no longer eat meat) - let us remember one of the most crucial elements of our Lenten Journey. Sure, fasting, self-discipline, and ascesis are important tools needed to help us prepare for our destination of Pascha, but todays Gospel lesson clearly portrays not the means, but the essence of what we are called to do and be. Let us use these tools of the Lenten season  fasting, discipline, ascesis  to help us cultivate more the essence of our faith  concrete love through simple actions to all people!

Mother Maria, an Orthodox nun who helped many destitute and needy people in Paris during WWII, including many Jews, was herself arrested and imprisoned in the Nazi concentration camps because of her actions. Before she died, she clearly stated what she had lived, At the last judgment I shall not be asked if I was successful in my ascetic exercises or how many prostrations I made in the course of my prayers.  I shall be asked one thing  did I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and the prisoners: that is all I shall be asked.
Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundations of the world For inasmuch as you did it to one of these, the least of my brothers and sisters, you did it to me.

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## moostraks

Excellent read...

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## Terry1

James 2:

*18*Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.  *19*Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.  *20*But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?  *21*Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  *22*Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?  *23*And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.  *24*Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.  *25*Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent _them_ out another way?  *26*For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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## acptulsa

> Excellent read...


Very good.

Pity we don't have S_F here to bump it a hundred times a day explaining how Paul said Jesus was full of $#@! and why we should believe Paul over Jesus.

Guess we'll have to bump it ourselves.

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## Terry1



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## Terry1

> Very good.
> 
> Pity we don't have S_F here to bump it a hundred times a day explaining how Paul said Jesus was full of $#@! and why we should believe Paul over Jesus.
> 
> Guess we'll have to bump it ourselves.


As bad as Sola treats others sometimes--and as much as he does not understand--somewhere deep in his soul he has a love for God and I do believe that even with poor Sola--God is able to make him stand.  I actually ended up having compassion for Sola--even though he insulted me many times.  It was just too easy to pick on Sola for me to continue to engage in such.  My heart of compassion for him overcame my anger with him--knowing that somewhere within him--he thought he was doing the right thing for God.  Me and Sola were a universe apart in our beliefs, but there is something else that I saw there too amongst everything else that turned animosity into compassion for him.

Now I don't feel this way so much with some wishy-washy inconsistent people set on starting trouble and $#@! always looking for the evil or bad in someone and never once seeing themselves as they are--my heart discerns different things in different people who are out to do harm to others out of nothing but pure hatred, jealousy and selfish pride--these are the ones I will tell when and where to hit the road and take their evil crap with them.

It's not so much what we say or even believe with regard to our differences within Christendom--it's how we help each other and what we do for them that does matter, this is the heart of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  I'm not always the best example of this obviously--I seem to have a boiling point where I just come right out and say what I want to say after seeing so much $#@! being stirred by those who are underhandedly trying to hurt me or someone else.  My rebukes are *strong*---but, so is my forgiveness and love when I see repentance and a change of heart.  

I've always been the kind of person that both loves and hates very strongly--there's not much wiggle room between the two with me.

If you care to know how I live and what I do--I take care of two severely disabled adults.  One gentleman with traumatic brain injury from a car accident and one lady with Cerebral Palsy, mentally handicapped and with some physical limitations.  I have been so blessed to have the opportunity to care for these two that have now lived with me and my husband in our home for 11 years now.  I have a heart of compassion that God has given me for people who can not help themselves.  This is what I'm good at--it's my gift from God.

My greatest weakness is letting my anger overcome my better judgment with people who can help themselves, but insist on playing a victim and blaming everyone else for their inability or refusal to help themselves.  These are the ones I have no great love or patience for.  Once upon a time I helped a young pregnant girl and the Lord spoke to my heart and told me that eventually she would turn on me, but to help her anyway--so I did and He was right--but I never regretted helping her.

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## Terry1

Help someone today--

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## acptulsa

No, there is nothing wishy-washy about S_F.  He does seem to be convinced that his hatred, jealousy and selfish pride are tools God needs him to employ.  And you're mistaken if you think I had no empathy or pity for him.  But you do not help someone who is fooling themselves into thinking the things they are doing for the devil's benefit are really benefitting Someone Else.  The helpful thing is to keep blowing the trumpet and hope the walls of Jericho fall.

God has made it clear that 'But I fooled myself completely!' is not an acceptable excuse.  The only kindness you can show someone like that is to leave their defensive walls--the ones that keep reality out--in rubble.  And one's pity cannot help with that chore.

S_F is only one of of S_F's victims.  And I think it's wise to have more pity for those more innocent.

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## moostraks

Love Your Enemies
Matthew5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Sounds so easy on paper but in practice, meh, not so much. I find myself in the worst predicaments when I concern myself with looking for a motivation to hang on another's behavior, because I don't live in their head and unless they live in my household I have no clue what their day was like.

Some folks are just going to annoy the crap out of you and I have come to believe they are a trial to see how far we are following through in our beliefs. The ex-husband who tried to murder me now contacts me on FB. It is a completely uncomfortable situation for me but I tolerate the interaction because he  needs it for some reason. For me, it tests my responsibility to forgiveness because if I forgive him then I can be patient with my own shortcomings because I am my loudest critic.

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## Terry1

> Love Your Enemies
> Matthew5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
> 
> Sounds so easy on paper but in practice, meh, not so much. I find myself in the worst predicaments when I concern myself with looking for a motivation to hang on another's behavior, because I don't live in their head and unless they live in my household I have no clue what their day was like.
> 
> Some folks are just going to annoy the crap out of you and I have come to believe they are a trial to see how far we are following through in our beliefs. The ex-husband who tried to murder me now contacts me on FB. It is a completely uncomfortable situation for me but I tolerate the interaction because he  needs it for some reason. For me, it tests my responsibility to forgiveness because if I forgive him then I can be patient with my own shortcomings because I am my loudest critic.



Right--it's far easier to tell someone to love their enemies than it is to actually do it--especially when they're out to harm you.  

I was stupid and married the wrong guy when I was young.  He was physically abusive to the point where I was hospitalized many times because of him.  I can't tell you how many times he stuck a gun in my mouth and to my head.  He would emotionally blackmail me to threatening to kill my horses and dogs if I left him.  The Lord found me during the course of that hellacious marriage and gave the courage and a promise--He would see me though it and out of it.

The ex- never stopped threatening to kill me even after I left--so I got in prayer about--next thing that happened was he dropped dead on the spot of a heart attack.  I was finally free to live my life without being in fear of him.  Do I believe that God had a hand in that--of course I do.  Let God sort him out now--the man was a sick evil bastard who hated God.  Never marry a "bad-boy"--but I was young, stupid and didn't know the Lord then.

Be careful trusting your ex.  One thing that's true are the statistics that when they continually threaten to kill you--the true stats are that eventually they will follow through with it.  This is what a lady police officer told me because she too was involved in a toxic abusive marriage.  Trust God, but use your God given common sense too.

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## acptulsa

As someone who has been male all my life, I can assure you that men are wired to keep doing what they're doing unless and until it stops working.  And, if you think about it, that is our defense against women who say they want one thing when they could never be happy if they got what they _say_ they want.  The overwhelming majority of women fall in love with men who give them what they _really_ want and completely ignore what they _say_ they want.

If you want to change an abusive man, never, ever, ever give him what he wants when he is misbehaving.  Period.  You can admire him for being a predictable stubborn ass all you want.  But do not under any circumstances reward him for it, unless he is stubbornly being good.

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## Terry1

> No, there is nothing wishy-washy about S_F.  He does seem to be convinced that his hatred, jealousy and selfish pride are tools God needs him to employ.  And you're mistaken if you think I had no empathy or pity for him.  But you do not help someone who is fooling themselves into thinking the things they are doing for the devil's benefit are really benefitting Someone Else.  The helpful thing is to keep blowing the trumpet and hope the walls of Jericho fall.
> 
> God has made it clear that 'But I fooled myself completely!' is not an acceptable excuse.  The only kindness you can show someone like that is to leave their defensive walls--the ones that keep reality out--in rubble.  And one's pity cannot help with that chore.
> 
> S_F is only one of of S_F's victims.  And I think it's wise to have more pity for those more innocent.


I don't believe that Sola was able to help himself because he'd been so indoctrinated into something that he believed and was unable to separate himself from it.  What I saw in Sola was indeed a prisoner of his own device.  I don't know whether is was demonic or simply self-willed--but what I saw was definitely a hostage situation of the human soul.  Very sad--Pray for Sola.

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## moostraks

> Right--it's far easier to tell someone to love their enemies than it is to actually do it--especially when they're out to harm you.  
> 
> I was stupid and married the wrong guy when I was young.  He was physically abusive to the point where I was hospitalized many times because of him.  I can't tell you how many times he stuck a gun in my mouth and to my head.  He would emotionally blackmail me to threatening to kill my horses and dogs if I left him.  The Lord found me during the course of that hellacious marriage and gave the courage and a promise--He would see me though it and out of it.
> 
> The ex- never stopped threatening to kill me even after I left--so I got in prayer about--next thing that happened was he dropped dead on the spot of a heart attack.  I was finally free to live my life without being in fear of him.  Do I believe that God had a hand in that--of course I do.  Let God sort him out now--the man was a sick evil bastard who hated God.  Never marry a "bad-boy"--but I was young, stupid and didn't know the Lord then.
> 
> Be careful trusting your ex.  One thing that's true are the statistics that when they continually threaten to kill you--the true stats are that eventually they will follow through with it.  This is what a lady police officer told me because she too was involved in a toxic abusive marriage.  Trust God, but use your God given common sense too.


Yeah, the initial contact was like a realization of my worst fears. There is some security in having him rear his head occasionally rather than being completely in the dark as to what is going on or where he might be. We are separated by around 900 miles or so physically. If he is being honest he is in very poor health esp. for his age and considering how he lived it is no surprise. He had a long term marriage after our 4 years of hell on earth and she is much closer and were I too guess much more the focus of attention. I think I was a curiosity and am not worth the energy atm. But, until he or I pass away, the awareness of the potential of what could occur is never far from mind. 

I refused forwarding everything for a number of years trying to hide from my previous existence with no titled ownership of anything and then one day I just got tired of living in the shadows. 

Not so terribly amusing is being told how unfaithful a servant of the Creator I am for not willingly walking away from my current spouse and returning to this individual in some way, shape, or form by some of the faith paths I have researched. I cannot emphasize how bad that advice is for anyone who has ever lived through what you or I have in those marriages...

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## Terry1

> As someone who has been male all my life, I can assure you that men are wired to keep doing what they're doing unless and until it stops working.  And, if you think about it, that is our defense against women who say they want one thing when they could never be happy if they got what they _say_ they want.  The overwhelming majority of women fall in love with men who give them what they _really_ want and completely ignore what they _say_ they want.
> 
> If you want to change an abusive man, never, ever, ever give him what he wants when he is misbehaving.  Period.  You can admire him for being a predictable stubborn ass all you want.  But do not under any circumstances reward him for it, unless he is stubbornly being good.


Well, what sent up red flags with me regarding what moos said about her ex contacting her again reminded me of the pattern of abuse that I experienced when I was going through that.  He'd would cheat on me and abuse me, then next thing he was bringing flowers and diamonds.  This pattern repeated itself over and over again like a vicious never ending cycle of repetitious events.  Only God gave me the strength and the courage to do what I had to do.  I truly believed that if God hadn't knocked him off first that he would have succeeded in putting an end to me as he promised he would.  This is why I'm telling moos---beware because these kinds of men don't realize themselves what they're capable of doing because they react on pure emotion.

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## Terry1

> Yeah, the initial contact was like a realization of my worst fears. There is some security in having him rear his head occasionally rather than being completely in the dark as to what is going on or where he might be. We are separated by around 900 miles or so physically. If he is being honest he is in very poor health esp. for his age and considering how he lived it is no surprise. He had a long term marriage after our 4 years of hell on earth and she is much closer and were I too guess much more the focus of attention. I think I was a curiosity and am not worth the energy atm. But, until he or I pass away, the awareness of the potential of what could occur is never far from mind. 
> 
> 
> I refused forwarding everything for a number of years trying to hide from my previous existence with no titled ownership of anything and then one day I just got tired of living in the shadows. 
> 
> Not so terribly amusing is being told how unfaithful a servant of the Creator I am for not willingly walking away from my current spouse and returning to this individual in some way, shape, or form by some of the faith paths I have researched. I cannot emphasize how bad that advice is for anyone who has ever lived through what you or I have in those marriages...


If I were you, being currently married and understanding what your ex is capable of--wish him well and leave him be--have no further contact with him.  Evidently he's between relationships or he wouldn't be trying to come back into your life again.  See it for what it is and leave him in God's hands.  Protect yourself, stay in prayer and leave him to God.

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## moostraks

> As someone who has been male all my life, I can assure you that men are wired to keep doing what they're doing unless and until it stops working.  And, if you think about it, that is our defense against women who say they want one thing when they could never be happy if they got what they _say_ they want.  The overwhelming majority of women fall in love with men who give them what they _really_ want and completely ignore what they _say_ they want.
> 
> If you want to change an abusive man, never, ever, ever give him what he wants when he is misbehaving.  Period.  You can admire him for being a predictable stubborn ass all you want.  But do not under any circumstances reward him for it, unless he is stubbornly being good.


Very wise advice regarding rewards. My current DH and I had to learn to speak the same language those first two years and it is a blessing to not live in conflict. DH was always trying to guess my unsaid wants and that just annoyed me to no end because his previous disfunctional relationship was much as you describe women.

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## Terry1

> Very wise advice regarding rewards. My current DH and I had to learn to speak the same language those first two years and it is a blessing to not live in conflict. DH was always trying to guess my unsaid wants and that just annoyed me to no end because his previous disfunctional relationship was much as you describe women.


I know what the Bible says about divorce, but also when I was going through that the Lord led me to another scripture just the same.  "Whom God hath joined together---let no man put asunder".  Some people run down get a marriage license--get married and think just because they entered into a contractual agreement that God joined them.  Not so!  A true marriage in Christ in spiritual--not carnal.  I have no doubt that God never meant for us to live under a threat of death, in fear and being physically abused on a continual basis.  "Whom God hath joined together" do not experience these things in a marriage.  Where there was no true spiritual marriage in the first place there can be no spiritual divorce because they were never truly joined by God in the first place.  This is what comforted me until God just killed him off--knowing that he was out to kill me.

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## moostraks

> If I were you, being currently married and understanding what your ex is capable of--wish him well and leave him be--have no further contact with him.  Evidently he's between relationships or he wouldn't be trying to come back into your life again.  See it for what it is and leave him in God's hands.  Protect yourself, stay in prayer and leave him to God.


It is a tight rope walk. I do every thing I can to ensure the conversation is not allowed to get...weird. He pops up every few months now. My FB page is covered with pictures of my family and spouse but not me.(I think that might make it worse but lol maybe that'd help since he would see I got old) To spurn his approach in any manner, knowing what I know of him, is to likely inspire retaliation. To make sure he understands that I am blissfully married ensures the conversation ends rather soon after it starts and he drifts off again for awhile. 

DH knows the whole back story and every iota of conversation that occurs but the whole thing always leaves me feeling gross and awkward and I keep hoping that the silence will continue indefinitely. I wish him well even after all that went down between us but I really would prefer he'd let sleeping dogs lie.

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## moostraks

> I know what the Bible says about divorce, but also when I was going through that the Lord led me to another scripture just the same.  "Whom God hath joined together---let no man put asunder".  Some people run down get a marriage license--get married and think just because they entered into a contractual agreement that God joined them.  Not so!  A true marriage in Christ in spiritual--not carnal.  I have no doubt that God never meant for us to live under a threat of death, in fear and being physically abused on a continual basis.  "Whom God hath joined together" do not experience these things in a marriage.  Where there was no true spiritual marriage in the first place there can be no spiritual divorce because they were never truly joined by God in the first place.  This is what comforted me until God just killed him off--knowing that he was out to kill me.


Yeah I was not in a good place until I saw my marriage through a different lens. I was sort of anticipating (secretly because you know good Christian girls shouldn't wish ill of anyone) to see an obituary and know God handled the situation once and for all. Seems as though there was more to the chapter and I was hoping on that initial contact that it would be one and done. Each time it seems more surreal and I figure eventually he will see it is what it is and I am not worth the trouble. He uses religious language now but he attempts to cross lines and acts in such a way that makes me very wary.

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## Terry1

> It is a tight rope walk. I do every thing I can to ensure the conversation is not allowed to get...weird. He pops up every few months now. My FB page is covered with pictures of my family and spouse but not me.(I think that might make it worse but lol maybe that'd help since he would see I got old) To spurn his approach in any manner, knowing what I know of him, is to likely inspire retaliation. To make sure he understands that I am blissfully married ensures the conversation ends rather soon after it starts and he drifts off again for awhile. 
> 
> DH knows the whole back story and every iota of conversation that occurs but the whole thing always leaves me feeling gross and awkward and I keep hoping that the silence will continue indefinitely. I wish him well even after all that went down between us but I really would prefer he'd let sleeping dogs lie.


Personally myself--I would discourage him like you said by reassuring him that you are happily married and only wish him the same and then be done with him.  He should be moving on with his own life instead of trying to recapture something that's long gone.  Be kind, but end it as soon as possible for his sake and yours.  If you have to nuke your FB page--do that.  The only way he has access is if you made your page visible to the public or if you friended him.  If it was me--I'd simply take down the page all together.

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## Terry1

> Yeah I was not in a good place until I saw my marriage through a different lens. I was sort of anticipating (secretly because you know good Christian girls shouldn't wish ill of anyone) to see an obituary and know God handled the situation once and for all. Seems as though there was more to the chapter and I was hoping on that initial contact that it would be one and done. Each time it seems more surreal and I figure eventually he will see it is what it is and I am not worth the trouble. He uses religious language now but he attempts to cross lines and acts in such a way that makes me very wary.


Oh I had some self-righteous do-gooders try to tell me that I was living in sin getting a divorce while he was still alive.  God was in control of that situation all along, so I didn't have to be worried about how they were judging me or what they thought.  God knocked him off for me so I could be free from his threats of death and eventually killing me. LOL  I do believe that too.   Let God do with him what He may now--that's what happens when they mess with Gods kids.

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## Jamesiv1

moostraks  Terry1

nice to see some peace between you two.

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## Terry1

> moostraks  Terry1
> 
> nice to see some peace between you two.


When someone treats me right--I can be real nice and peaceful just the same, but if they want to start $#@! and talk off topic $#@! in threads about me to someone else--I'll call them on it and if they want to dosey-doe with me--they better have their dancing shoes on too.

If someone wants to get along--I'm all for it, but I'm not a whoopin post for bipolars to take their frustrations out on either.

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## Jamesiv1

the shortest-lived cease-fire in the history of ever.

lol

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## Terry1

> the shortest-lived cease-fire in the history of ever.
> 
> lol


Lol--I tells it like it is bro.

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## moostraks

> the shortest-lived cease-fire in the history of ever.
> 
> lol


Meh...

Colossians 3:8But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. 

Proverbs 12:18There is one who speaks rashly like the thrusts of a sword, But the tongue of the wise brings healing. 

Ephesians 4:29Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

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## moostraks

> Lol--I tells it like it is bro.


Not really but maybe one day you will understand that and what damage is done to others by such callous remarks.

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## Terry1

> Not really but maybe one day you will understand that and what damage is done to others by such callous remarks.


I want to make peace as much as the next person here moos, but it really boggles the mind as to how you can sit there and pound stuff like this out when not only have you accused the EOC members of bowing down to demons, but just recently you called some of the others in here vultures on top of ridiculing me to my fellow brethren in here in a thread where it in no ways belonged in the first place.  Now, if you want to cease with the BS and get honest, it would be a lot easier for both of us to make peace.

Now, I'll do my best to make peace and ignore any more of your nonsense.  I guess we'll see how it goes--you're the reason I chose to take a three month break from this place and you're back at it again with me.  So I have no idea what your issues are with me, but I certainly wish Sola was back so at least you'd have a different focus.  Good grief, you're in here so much it makes me wonder what your real house looks like.

----------


## moostraks

> I want to make peace as much as the next person here moos, but it really boggles the mind as to how you can sit there and pound stuff like this out when not only have you accused the EOC members of bowing down to demons, but just recently you called some of the others in here vultures on top of ridiculing me to my fellow brethren in here in a thread where it in no ways belonged in the first place.  Now, if you want to cease with the BS and get honest, it would be a lot easier for both of us to make peace.
> 
> Now, I'll do my best to make peace and ignore any more of your nonsense.  I guess we'll see how it goes--you're the reason I chose to take a three month break from this place and you're back at it again with me.  So I have no idea what your issues are with me, but I certainly wish Sola was back so at least you'd have a different focus.  Good grief, you're in here so much it makes me wonder what your real house looks like.


The demons thing was in your head. You were grasping at straws and inferred something from what I said in order to keep an argument going. Ya know, I went back to the thread the other day with TER that got you all jacked up and actually looked to see why you thought I was chasing him down because I knew when I chose to speak up it had nothing to really do with TER but was merely to save Tod some grief because I felt for what he was trying to do. (Having seen his recent thread I really empathized with his frustration) Reread and you will see it was TER who asked me twice, over what was my aggravation specifically as regards him, before I responded to him and told him what the deal imo was, so it's not me chasing after him as you wish to portray things. In fact, I would have let it lie then as I had said all I wanted to say on the matter but I wasn't going to lie when asked directly about my opinion. 

As for vulture, I felt bad about the way they seemed to be ganging up on you because of how easily your witness has become negative when dealing with their questions. Were it anyone else to make the statement you would have likely taken it for what it was, an apt descriptor of what they were looking to do to you. Upon a recent return it had already become tense again here with the usual absurdness and I guess you are the only one authorized to call it as it is. As I said previously, I should have realized you welcome the attention. My choice of wording was very specific because I almost always choose my words very carefully to be as clear and concise as possible. It was meant to characterize the behavior of what they were doing to you from the visual I got regarding the posts they were making. I see no less of the Light within them based upon said word choice nor was there any effort to do more than put a precise term to the attention you were getting. Were they to have replied they were insulted I would have stated as such and apologize for offending them by the effort to portray the visual it was giving me at the time. Again, I believe were it anyone else you would have taken it fwiw.


My house is fine but thanks for yet another obnoxious attempt at drama. I post while eating meals or while waiting for the children in between lessons as I find most of my day to be spent tethered to the classroom for the greater part of the year. I average 3 posts a day. It is amusing you feel the need to comment on the matter when in 3 years you have more posts than 1/2 of the ones I have in 7 and 1/2 years and you took a three month sabbatical. Yet, it is not as though I would consider making such an insult about your career. 

I am not bsing as you say. I am the same as I was when I defended you against nang's slurs. I am human not a saint and don't claim to be one. In attempting to stop a fight I often have applied the wrong solution which I have freely admitted. I don't hold myself up as some example of etiquette but interceded when moved to do so to stop what I feel is harm to either a person or the witness of the Faith as I understand it. I try to choose my battles carefully because I do have a life and don't like wasted effort.

 You remind me of a light bulb with a filament that is just about ready to explode. People don't like to speak up to you because of the viciousness with which you reply to any even perceived slight (and yes I know this for a fact from other testimonies). My guilt and shame in not being forthright in times past because of my own fear of incurring your wrath inspired me to speak up last time. I still feel guilty because of that but it is only distantly related as a reason why I won't be silent now.

We are judged by our fruits, both of us. Some will not like my methods or reasoning. I have to do as the Spirit moves me and pray that it is for the greater good of peace in this subforum. I am sorry you feel the need to continue because you hold certain things in offense you perceived but the reality is different than your perceptions on the matter and I hold no grudges so do with that what you will. As for the EOC demons, folks likely are wise enough to understand it would be completely asinine to hold such an opinion all while recommending EOC literature for understanding on a subject. 

And as for SF, since you choose to bring him up (you did realize it is you bringing his name up?) he espouses doctrine that nearly got me killed.

----------


## moostraks

I actually owe you a debt of gratitude Terry. I agonized for years, almost a decade, wavering over what a failure I was for not dragging my family to an EOC church. How much time I wasted sitting outside of an EOC church but some doubt, unspoken, prevented further action. Having seen up close and personal with the blinders off on what was lying just below the surface and remaining an unfleshed out doubt within my subconscious.  I removed the burden of guilt and failure and ascertained clearly why it was I am not Orthodox nor will I likely ever walk any further down that road. You saved my family untold pain and for that I am grateful. I wish you nothing but peace.

----------


## jmdrake

> moostraks  Terry1
> 
> nice to see some peace between you two.


I'm telling ya!  A thread on "peace through religion" that brings peace?  Who'd a thunk it?

----------


## jmdrake

> the shortest-lived cease-fire in the history of ever.
> 
> lol


Ah jeeze.    Jamesiv1, you know how they say that attempting to measure an experiment changes the experiment?  Well I guess commenting on peace between two women ends it.

----------


## jmdrake

> When someone treats me right--I can be real nice and peaceful just the same, but if they want to start $#@! and talk off topic $#@! in threads about me to someone else--I'll call them on it and if they want to dosey-doe with me--they better have their dancing shoes on too.
> 
> If someone wants to get along--I'm all for it, but I'm not a whoopin post for bipolars to take their frustrations out on either.


Just one question.  Why?




> Lol--I tells it like it is bro.


Proverbs 15:1

----------


## moostraks

> Ah jeeze.    Jamesiv1, you know how they say that attempting to measure an experiment changes the experiment?  Well I guess commenting on peace between two women ends it.


If so, she's shadow boxing. 

For all the digs you guys have been making about women folk lately, do you guys really believe you all are much different when offended? Serious question...

I hear why she is mad at me and she feels justified. So be it. She carries her baggage and I'll carry my own.

----------


## jmdrake

> If so, she's shadow boxing. 
> 
> For all the digs you guys have been making about women folk lately, do you guys really believe you all are much different when offended? Serious question...
> 
> I hear why she is mad at me and she feels justified. So be it. She carries her baggage and I'll carry my own.


All us guys are sexists.  

Seriously though, I've seen in my life that men seem better able to compartmentalize than women.  Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing.  When I was married and my wife and I worked together in the church there was another woman in a different but related department that was a total bitch in general and especially to my wife.  Both departments basically did the same thing but ours were with the older children.  Once my wife asked me "How can you even talk to her when she's been so mean to me?"  My response was "Well the church hasn't removed her from office and we have parents with kids in both groups so we kind of have to communicate."  

I've heard that there's research that shows there are more connections between both sides of a woman's brain than a man's.  I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is that can explain a lot.  And again, it's not entirely negative for the women.  Women can be more compassionate whereas men would compartmentalize, rip someone off, then turn around and donate extra profits to charity.

----------


## acptulsa

> Ah jeeze.    Jamesiv1, you know how they say that attempting to measure an experiment changes the experiment?  Well I guess commenting on peace between two women ends it.


Every time.




> For all the digs you guys have been making about women folk lately, do you guys really believe you all are much different when offended? Serious question...


I think men are somewhat more likely to overreact like a nuke, but somewhat less likely to go off for no reason whatsoever like nitro glycerine.

On average.  Individuals have the right to vary.

----------


## moostraks

> I think men are somewhat more likely to overreact like a nuke, but somewhat less likely to go off for no reason whatsoever like nitro glycerine.
> 
> On average.  Individuals have the right to vary.




From your comments lately I am starting to wonder about my gender identity. luckily we live in a point in history where making such a comment is not reward with being placed to the rack...

----------


## acptulsa

> From your comments lately I am starting to wonder about my gender identity.


Tomboys have always been my favorite.




> luckily we live in a point in history where making such a comment is not reward with being placed to the rack...


I've known several progs over the years who would have stretched me anyway, had I been silly enough to give them a chance.

----------


## jmdrake

> Every time.
> 
> 
> 
> I think men are somewhat more likely to overreact like a nuke, but somewhat less likely to go off for no reason whatsoever like nitro glycerine.
> 
> On average.  Individuals have the right to vary.


Men are like Romans.  We line up in ranks, lock our shields and press forward.  Women are like Persians.  They move in and out of range firing their endless supply of arrows and are great at firing the parting shot.  That's why the Persians totally kicked the Romans' asses.  The Greeks only beat the Persians because they were gay.




(Note: While that's a battle between Rome and Parthia, Parthia was basically the Persian empire reborn).

----------


## TER

> I actually owe you a debt of gratitude Terry. I agonized for years, almost a decade, wavering over what a failure I was for not dragging my family to an EOC church. How much time I wasted sitting outside of an EOC church but some doubt, unspoken, prevented further action. Having seen up close and personal with the blinders off on what was lying just below the surface and remaining an unfleshed out doubt within my subconscious. I removed the burden of guilt and failure and ascertained clearly why it was I am not Orthodox nor will I likely ever walk any further down that road. You saved my family untold pain and for that I am grateful. I wish you nothing but peace.



I find your attempts at putting the blame on your decision not to enter the EOC on Terry extremely unfair, that you would judge and collective the Church because of attitudes of certain select members (or even nonmembers, in Terry's case).  The only members of the EOC I know in this forum is HB, RJB, Fisharmor, and myself.  Is that a sampling size big enough for you to reject 2000 years of Saints?

If that is the way you approach entrance into a Church, then you are right that you are not ready to enter.

----------


## moostraks

> All us guys are sexists.  
> 
> Seriously though, I've seen in my life that men seem better able to compartmentalize than women.  Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing.  When I was married and my wife and I worked together in the church there was another woman in a different but related department that was a total bitch in general and especially to my wife.  Both departments basically did the same thing but ours were with the older children.  Once my wife asked me "How can you even talk to her when she's been so mean to me?"  My response was "Well the church hasn't removed her from office and we have parents with kids in both groups so we kind of have to communicate."  
> 
> I've heard that there's research that shows there are more connections between both sides of a woman's brain than a man's.  I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is that can explain a lot.  And again, it's not entirely negative for the women.  Women can be more compassionate whereas men would compartmentalize, rip someone off, then turn around and donate extra profits to charity.


Lol. Nice story for illustration because I see right where you are coming from on this. I guess I didn't want Terry to feel like the issue was being dismissed so handily by you men folk here without understanding why you view the whole thing the way you do.

Me,  I am finding it hard to drum up any indignation over the the digs at me. If she needs someone to berate and it makes her feel better oh well. I can only defend my position on the absurdity of it as I don't think remaining silent was effective either.

----------


## TER

> If so, she's shadow boxing. 
> 
> For all the digs you guys have been making about women folk lately, do you guys really believe you all are much different when offended? Serious question...
> 
> I hear why she is mad at me and she feels justified. So be it. She carries her baggage and I'll carry my own.


Your mantra is "Peace on your path" but all I see from you are personal digs and counter attacks as well.  You want Terry to stop the arguing but you are just as culpable.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> All us guys are sexists.  
> 
> Seriously though, I've seen in my life that men seem better able to compartmentalize than women.  Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing.  When I was married and my wife and I worked together in the church there was another woman in a different but related department that was a total bitch in general and especially to my wife.  Both departments basically did the same thing but ours were with the older children.  Once my wife asked me "How can you even talk to her when she's been so mean to me?"  My response was "Well the church hasn't removed her from office and we have parents with kids in both groups so we kind of have to communicate."  
> 
> I've heard that there's research that shows there are more connections between both sides of a woman's brain than a man's.  I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is that can explain a lot.  And again, it's not entirely negative for the women.  Women can be more compassionate whereas men would compartmentalize, rip someone off, then turn around and donate extra profits to charity.


I think you guys do compartmentalize.  I wonder though if this is healthy.  We know women live longer than men.  I've heard it is because we are able to verbalize emotion and get hard feelings out in the open.  Many men harbor deep resentments and grudges that become so deeply ingrained, it changes the way they view life and thus their behavior.

----------


## Terry1

> Forum burp...


How very apropos in your case, got anything else to excrete or discharge in my thread?

----------


## TER

> It wasn't being placed on Terry. It wasn't even Terry's behavior I was referring to in that post. My identity is with my path as I am walking it. I have had a number of absurd comments come from you because of how you identify with the Faith. I have largely let them slide because it has become quite obvious you are not capable of seeing through someone's eyes in the manner I have requested of you. It is not really worth the hassle to explain much further because you just use it as an opportunity to push your church and further insult me and others who don't walk your road. I attempted to reach you the other day and realized how deep and wide we are apart in comprehension and that you cannot bridge that gap so I am left to empathisize with others over your insults because I walk a portion of their path and I hear their frustration. Stop making assumptions wrt me as you are more often wrong than right and if you ask me I will answer you honestly. You are reacting in a knee jerk reaction.


I am responding to what I have read.  I am not insulting you.  I am defending my sister whom you accuse, while you stoke the fires just the same.  You make big vocal and public sighs about how no one from the EOC is reigning in Terry for her attitude, and then get defensive when someone points out your own instigations and continued attacks.  You both have revealed personal difficulties in your past about abusive relationships, and instead of growing closer because of the shared experiences, you two are at eachother's throats on a daily basis here and it is disgusting.   

You two have a problem with eachother and can't sincerely make up, then avoid eachother or put yourselves on ignore, because the drama is pretty pathetic.  But don't go around placing the blame, responsibility and burden on Terry because of your lack of faith in the Orthodox Church, as if she is the reason why you did not join.  You didn't join for certain reasons?  Great!  Start your own Church!  But leave Terry alone on that because she is not to blame for your decision or indecision.

----------


## Terry1

> Your mantra is "Peace on your path" but all I see from you are personal digs and counter attacks as well.  You want Terry to stop the arguing but you are just as culpable.


Yep---dejavu--she's the reason I took off for three months and now she's back at it again.  I guess all I can do is ignore her at this point since she won't go away on her own.  I honestly do believe she needs meds.  I'm not answering anything else from her.  TER--I don't think she was ever interested in joining the church in the first place--I think she was looking for attention from a whole different perspective--if you can read between the lines here.  My advice--dump her and it all together--she's only looking for your attention and seems to have some sick thought that I'm in her way--   That's what it looks like to me anyway.

----------


## moostraks

> Your mantra is "Peace on your path" but all I see from you are personal digs and counter attacks as well.  You want Terry to stop the arguing but you are just as culpable.


I know. I hear you. I told you I am human and make mistakes. I am prone to get frustrated like anyone else. Have I said anything different? I can say what it is I think is destroying a witness of Love. It seems as though you are championing the cause of unity at all costs (or just as rt your people). I disagree with your argument of not speaking out at blatant unkindness for the sake of effect and sadly have bit when antagonized and antagonized in return. Judge me on it and do as you will. It doesn't change the truth that blatant unkindness ruins a witness of Love.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> I'm telling ya!  A thread on "peace through religion" that brings peace?  Who'd a thunk it?


There is no peace here, JM.  This is not a safe place to share personal stories or even one's theology.  Even in the real world, we would have more discernment on what to share and when to be quiet.  Something about these forums gives us greater confidence in sharing, and that can be risky.

What we post is always under scrutiny and we best be very careful.  Men as well as women.

----------


## TER

> I know. I hear you. I told you I am human and make mistakes. I am prone to get frustrated like anyone else. Have I said anything different? I can say what it is I think is destroying a witness of Love. It seems as though you are championing the cause of unity at all costs (or just as rt your people). *I disagree with your argument of not speaking out at blatant unkindness for the sake of effect and sadly have bit when antagonized and antagonized in return*. Judge me on it and do as you will. It doesn't change the truth that blatant unkindness ruins a witness of Love.


Really moos?  And what the hell do you know about what I have been trying to do to keep the peace between you and Terry?  Should I publicize my PM's for the sake of your satisfaction?  I speak up about unkindness all the time, in public and in private. Are you jealous and think I am more tolerant to Terry?  But what the hell do you know about what I speak with Terry about?  I haven't stopped trying to defend you and increase the peace between you two, both in private and in public.  So spare me crap.  You just don't like it when the critique is aimed at you, but you certainly like to critique others, and put the blame on them for the decisions you have made.  You say you don't like to see the pot stirred, but your often times holding the spoon.  I point that out to you, and now you think I am an enemy.  Oh well, if you only knew how much I have struggled to make things right between you and those you think are your perceived enemies.  And what have I asked in return from you?  

Leave Terrry alone if you think you can be a better Christian then her.  Prove it by your actions.  Cause all I have seen the past few days is a pot calling a kettle black.  This does not mean they are both the same shade of black, but similar in many ways nonetheless.

----------


## Terry1

> It wasn't being placed on Terry. It wasn't even Terry's behavior I was referring to in that post. My identity is with my path as I am walking it. I have had a number of absurd comments come from you because of how you identify with the Faith. I have largely let them slide because it has become quite obvious you are not capable of seeing through someone's eyes in the manner I have requested of you. It is not really worth the hassle to explain much further because you just use it as an opportunity to push your church and further insult me and others who don't walk your road. I attempted to reach you the other day and realized how deep and wide we are apart in comprehension and that you cannot bridge that gap so I am left to empathisize with others over your insults because I walk a portion of their path and I hear their frustration. Stop making assumptions wrt me as you are more often wrong than right and if you ask me I will answer you honestly. You are reacting in a knee jerk reaction.


....

----------


## Terry1

> Lol. Nice story for illustration because I see right where you are coming from on this. I guess I didn't want Terry to feel like the issue was being dismissed so handily by you men folk here without understanding why you view the whole thing the way you do.
> 
> Me,  I am finding it hard to drum up any indignation over the the digs at me. If she needs someone to berate and it makes her feel better oh well. I can only defend my position on the absurdity of it as I don't think remaining silent was effective either.



....

----------


## moostraks

> I am responding to what I have read.  I am not insulting you.  I am defending my sister whom you accuse, while you stoke the fires just the same.  You make big vocal and public sighs about how no one from the EOC is reigning in Terry for her attitude, and then get defensive when someone points out your own instigations and continued attacks.  You both have revealed personal difficulties in your past about abusive relationships, and instead of growing closer because of the shared experiences, you two are at eachother's throats on a daily basis here and it is disgusting.   
> 
> You two have a problem with eachother and can't sincerely make up, then avoid eachother or put yourselves on ignore, because the drama is pretty pathetic.  But don't go around placing the blame, responsibility and burden on Terry because of your lack of faith in the Orthodox Church, as if she is the reason why you did not join.  You didn't join for certain reasons?  Great!  Start your own Church!  But leave Terry alone on that because she is not to blame for your decision or indecision.


No, the dust up with her opened my eyes to what I was ignoring in myself as my reservations. There is a completely different side of the story which you wish to ignore. I really would never get past the view of the Eucharist or the icons. No manner of hey, just show up and we will talk you through it would change my beliefs, as I see the situation now. I really do hold these beliefs down to the core of my soul and I would be doing a disservice to the church you attend to hold such a resentment every time I was to attend. Your church is not the sole retainer of the Spirit and all your arguments to the contrary clinging desperately to pedigrees won't make it a reality. 

Defensive? I am defensive about some errors in accusations that do not accurately portray me. I fully accept having participated in snide comments. I regret not taking a higher road. I have attempted to meet her on common ground and she continues to insult with ridiculous barbs. Your knee jerk defense of her is a bit absurd, but I get where it is coming from. GL

----------


## TER

> There is no peace here, JM.  This is not a safe place to share personal stories or even one's theology.  Even in the real world, we would have more discernment on what to share and when to be quiet.  Something about these forums gives us greater confidence in sharing, and that can be risky.
> 
> What we post is always under scrutiny and we best be very careful.  Men as well as women.


If it is not a safe place to share theology, then why did you start that recent thread bastardizing Christian beliefs and practics that have been around since the very beginnings?

----------


## Terry1

> From your comments lately I am starting to wonder about my gender identity. luckily we live in a point in history where making such a comment is not reward with being placed to the rack...


....

----------


## Terry1

> If so, she's shadow boxing. 
> 
> For all the digs you guys have been making about women folk lately, do you guys really believe you all are much different when offended? Serious question...
> 
> I hear why she is mad at me and she feels justified. So be it. She carries her baggage and I'll carry my own.



....

----------


## Terry1

> There is no peace here, JM.  This is not a safe place to share personal stories or even one's theology.  Even in the real world, we would have more discernment on what to share and when to be quiet.  Something about these forums gives us greater confidence in sharing, and that can be risky.
> 
> What we post is always under scrutiny and we best be very careful.  Men as well as women.


....

----------


## Terry1

> Not really but maybe one day you will understand that and what damage is done to others by such callous remarks.



....

----------


## Terry1

> The demons thing was in your head. You were grasping at straws and inferred something from what I said in order to keep an argument going. Ya know, I went back to the thread the other day with TER that got you all jacked up and actually looked to see why you thought I was chasing him down because I knew when I chose to speak up it had nothing to really do with TER but was merely to save Tod some grief because I felt for what he was trying to do. (Having seen his recent thread I really empathized with his frustration) Reread and you will see it was TER who asked me twice, over what was my aggravation specifically as regards him, before I responded to him and told him what the deal imo was, so it's not me chasing after him as you wish to portray things. In fact, I would have let it lie then as I had said all I wanted to say on the matter but I wasn't going to lie when asked directly about my opinion. 
> 
> As for vulture, I felt bad about the way they seemed to be ganging up on you because of how easily your witness has become negative when dealing with their questions. Were it anyone else to make the statement you would have likely taken it for what it was, an apt descriptor of what they were looking to do to you. Upon a recent return it had already become tense again here with the usual absurdness and I guess you are the only one authorized to call it as it is. As I said previously, I should have realized you welcome the attention. My choice of wording was very specific because I almost always choose my words very carefully to be as clear and concise as possible. It was meant to characterize the behavior of what they were doing to you from the visual I got regarding the posts they were making. I see no less of the Light within them based upon said word choice nor was there any effort to do more than put a precise term to the attention you were getting. Were they to have replied they were insulted I would have stated as such and apologize for offending them by the effort to portray the visual it was giving me at the time. Again, I believe were it anyone else you would have taken it fwiw.
> 
> 
> My house is fine but thanks for yet another obnoxious attempt at drama. I post while eating meals or while waiting for the children in between lessons as I find most of my day to be spent tethered to the classroom for the greater part of the year. I average 3 posts a day. It is amusing you feel the need to comment on the matter when in 3 years you have more posts than 1/2 of the ones I have in 7 and 1/2 years and you took a three month sabbatical. Yet, it is not as though I would consider making such an insult about your career. 
> 
> I am not bsing as you say. I am the same as I was when I defended you against nang's slurs. I am human not a saint and don't claim to be one. In attempting to stop a fight I often have applied the wrong solution which I have freely admitted. I don't hold myself up as some example of etiquette but interceded when moved to do so to stop what I feel is harm to either a person or the witness of the Faith as I understand it. I try to choose my battles carefully because I do have a life and don't like wasted effort.
> 
> ...



...

----------


## moostraks

> Really moos?  And what the hell do you know about what I have been trying to do to keep the peace between you and Terry?  Should I publicize my PM's for the sake of your satisfaction?  I speak up about unkindness all the time, in public and in private. Are you jealous and think I am more tolerant to Terry?  But what the hell do you know about what I speak with Terry about?  I haven't stopped trying to defend you and increase the peace between you two, both in private and in public.  So spare me crap.  You just don't like it when the critique is aimed at you, but you certainly like to critique others, and put the blame on them for the decisions you have made.  You say you don't like to see the pot stirred, but your often times holding the spoon.  I point that out to you, and now you think I am an enemy.  Oh well, if you only knew how much I have struggled to make things right between you and those you think are your perceived enemies.  And what have I asked in return from you?  
> 
> Leave Terrry alone if you think you can be a better Christian then her.  Prove it by your actions.  Cause all I have seen the past few days is a pot calling a kettle black.  This does not mean they are both the same shade of black, but similar in many ways nonetheless.



GL with it all TER. I really do wish you peace both you and Terry.

----------


## Terry1

> I actually owe you a debt of gratitude Terry. I agonized for years, almost a decade, wavering over what a failure I was for not dragging my family to an EOC church. How much time I wasted sitting outside of an EOC church but some doubt, unspoken, prevented further action. Having seen up close and personal with the blinders off on what was lying just below the surface and remaining an unfleshed out doubt within my subconscious.  I removed the burden of guilt and failure and ascertained clearly why it was I am not Orthodox nor will I likely ever walk any further down that road. You saved my family untold pain and for that I am grateful. I wish you nothing but peace.


...

----------


## Terry1

> GL with it all TER. I really do wish you peace both you and Terry.


...

----------


## Terry1

LOL--*shaking head here*

----------


## TER

> GL with it all TER. I really do wish you peace both you and Terry.


Then prove it.

----------


## TER

> LOL--*shaking head here*


This is enough now Terry.  Please drop it.

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## Jamesiv1

I rebuke all you guys.

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## Eagles' Wings

> If it is not a safe place to share theology, then why did you start that recent thread bastardizing Christian beliefs and practics that have been around since the very beginnings?


It's not a safe place.  It is risky to post just about anything here, TER.   The risk is in offending another.  You are offended by my post.  It is okay for me to believe differently than you.  I too, study the Scripture and early church writings.  You are on your path and I on mine.    I would not want you to stop posting threads that denigrate those who are not EO.  It is your right, but it is not peaceful.

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## TER

> It's not a safe place.  It is risky to post just about anything here, TER.   The risk is in offending another.  You are offended by my post.  It is okay for me to believe differently than you.  I too, study the Scripture and early church writings.  You are on your path and I on mine.    I would not want you to stop posting threads that denigrate those who are not EO.  It is your right, but it is not peaceful.


Fair enough Louise.  You make valid points.  I retract my statement.

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## Terry1

> This is enough now Terry.  Please drop it.


Okay--I'm done. May the force be with you brother.  Luvs ya--hugs.

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## moostraks

> There is no peace here, JM.  This is not a safe place to share personal stories or even one's theology.  Even in the real world, we would have more discernment on what to share and when to be quiet.  Something about these forums gives us greater confidence in sharing, and that can be risky.
> 
> What we post is always under scrutiny and we best be very careful.  Men as well as women.


True...due to circumstances at present this has been my only means of significant fellowship and it has been more destructive than anything for me and my faith.

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## acptulsa

> *Seeing God in Others
> 
> http://schwebster.org/sermons/2013/seeing-god-in-others*
> 
> An ancient legend tells of a mighty king who had no son, and thus, no heir to the throne. The king sent out couriers to all the towns of his kingdom to post signs which invited any qualified young man to come and interview as a possible successor to the throne. There were only two qualifications  the man had to truly love the king and to truly love His fellow man.
> 
> A very faithful and devout lad lived in one of the towns, and happened to see this sign of the king. This humble, poor young man surely loved his king, and always was doing good for others. Still, he didnt think himself worthy to go for an interview with the king until many of the people he constantly helped day in and day out convinced him to go to the castle and interview with the king. Still, he had one problem he was so poor that he didnt have any clothes fit to meet a king, and he had no money or provisions for the journey to the castle. Day after day, the young man begged here and borrowed there, slowly collecting enough money to buy appropriate clothing and the necessary supplies for the trip.
> 
> Properly attired and well suited, the young man started off on his journey. At almost the end of his journey, though, he came across this poor, old beggar, clothed only in tattered rags. The beggar called out in desperation to the traveler, Please help a poor man. I have no food, and am freezing in the cold. In honor of the king, please help me.
> ...


..

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## Terry1



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## moostraks

> It's not a safe place.  It is risky to post just about anything here, TER.   The risk is in offending another.  You are offended by my post.  It is okay for me to believe differently than you.  I too, study the Scripture and early church writings.  You are on your path and I on mine.    I would not want you to stop posting threads that denigrate those who are not EO.  It is your right, but it is not peaceful.


You know I was thinking on this and how accurate this is but I don't see why, in theory, the posts cannot be an affirmation  of a particular belief rather than a constant rebuke of a different person's path. Question someone or bring up inconsistencies in a theorized position as one sees it but take what is a blessing and leave the rest.

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## Eagles' Wings

> True...due to circumstances at present this has been my only means of significant fellowship and it has been more destructive than anything for me and my faith.


Many here have taken long breaks because of emotional and spiritual damage due to destructive behavior.  Some are more hardy than others.  Some can be cruel and foul with a poster one day and then be best buds the next.  It all makes one a bit crazy.

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## Terry1

Hey--once again--moostraks and Louise--could you take your off topic ridiculing crap about me out of my thread on good works that matter please?  Thanks in advance.  Why don't you two knuckleheads start a *Terry bashing fest* of your own for once.  This is getting old.

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## Eagles' Wings

> Fair enough Louise.  You make valid points.  I retract my statement.


I've butted heads with you for years.  My head hurts.

I have much hope that the Lord will get through our heads, that He is our Peace.  We'll spend the rest of our lives being gifted with this.

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## jmdrake

> I think you guys do compartmentalize.  I wonder though if this is healthy.  We know women live longer than men.  I've heard it is because we are able to verbalize emotion and get hard feelings out in the open.  Many men harbor deep resentments and grudges that become so deeply ingrained, it changes the way they view life and thus their behavior.


Longevity is overrated.  Jesus died at 33.

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## moostraks

> Hey--once again--moostraks and Louise--could you take your off topic ridiculing crap about me out of my thread on good works that matter please?  Thanks in advance.  Why don't you two knuckleheads start a *Terry bashing fest* of your own for once.  This is getting old.


I am not ridiculing you.

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## Eagles' Wings

> You know I was thinking on this and how accurate this is but I don't see why, in theory, the posts cannot be an affirmation  of a particular belief rather than a constant rebuke of a different person's path. Question someone or bring up inconsistencies in a theorized position as one sees it but take what is a blessing and leave the rest.


Sounds good in theory.  Will leave it at that for now.  

Back to the OP - what we do matters in Christ...very good thread title.

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## moostraks

> Many here have taken long breaks because of emotional and spiritual damage due to destructive behavior.  Some are more hardy than others.  Some can be cruel and foul with a poster one day and then be best buds the next.  It all makes one a bit crazy.


Yeah, I have avoided this subforum off and on due to the intensity that occurs. I just act as though the forum headings list won't scroll that far.

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## Terry1

> I am not ridiculing you.


LOL

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## jmdrake



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## Terry1



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## Terry1

> The demons thing was in your head. You were grasping at straws and inferred something from what I said in order to keep an argument going. Ya know, I went back to the thread the other day with TER that got you all jacked up and actually looked to see why you thought I was chasing him down because I knew when I chose to speak up it had nothing to really do with TER but was merely to save Tod some grief because I felt for what he was trying to do. (Having seen his recent thread I really empathized with his frustration) Reread and you will see it was TER who asked me twice, over what was my aggravation specifically as regards him, before I responded to him and told him what the deal imo was, so it's not me chasing after him as you wish to portray things. In fact, I would have let it lie then as I had said all I wanted to say on the matter but I wasn't going to lie when asked directly about my opinion. 
> 
> As for vulture, I felt bad about the way they seemed to be ganging up on you because of how easily your witness has become negative when dealing with their questions. Were it anyone else to make the statement you would have likely taken it for what it was, an apt descriptor of what they were looking to do to you. Upon a recent return it had already become tense again here with the usual absurdness and I guess you are the only one authorized to call it as it is. As I said previously, I should have realized you welcome the attention. My choice of wording was very specific because I almost always choose my words very carefully to be as clear and concise as possible. It was meant to characterize the behavior of what they were doing to you from the visual I got regarding the posts they were making. I see no less of the Light within them based upon said word choice nor was there any effort to do more than put a precise term to the attention you were getting. Were they to have replied they were insulted I would have stated as such and apologize for offending them by the effort to portray the visual it was giving me at the time. Again, I believe were it anyone else you would have taken it fwiw.
> 
> 
> My house is fine but thanks for yet another obnoxious attempt at drama. I post while eating meals or while waiting for the children in between lessons as I find most of my day to be spent tethered to the classroom for the greater part of the year. I average 3 posts a day. It is amusing you feel the need to comment on the matter when in 3 years you have more posts than 1/2 of the ones I have in 7 and 1/2 years and you took a three month sabbatical. Yet, it is not as though I would consider making such an insult about your career. 
> 
> I am not bsing as you say. I am the same as I was when I defended you against nang's slurs. I am human not a saint and don't claim to be one. In attempting to stop a fight I often have applied the wrong solution which I have freely admitted. I don't hold myself up as some example of etiquette but interceded when moved to do so to stop what I feel is harm to either a person or the witness of the Faith as I understand it. I try to choose my battles carefully because I do have a life and don't like wasted effort.
> 
> ...



Running around the forum bashing Sola or me or anyone else for that matter because you don't agree with their belief system is no ones fault but your own.  You and you alone are responsible for whatever it is that *you choose* to believe.  Blaming others for your lack due diligence to seek answers in prayer because of their behavior and attitudes without keeping your own in check, that aren't up to your standards doesn't leave them responsible for your lack of due diligence to personally seek out God and truth through the tools that He's given you.  

Now you've been wavering back and forth on subscribing to the EOC for a good long while here with every excuse in book like you believed that we were bowing down to demons, to we thought we were acting superior because we're Greek or Russian and all kinds of absolutely ridiculous accusations about people.  Instead of trying to hang on to other spiritual shirt-tails or blaming everyone and every thing they do or say that seems to have a greater effect on what you believe other than doing a theological study of your own in prayer that will lead you to whatever belief will satisfy this dire need you have to belong to something--anything.  No one can do that for you.  You can't piggy-back your way to heaven.  It's your responsibility to seek it out for yourself.

What I'm seeing in you after what you've shared in here is a very insecure person with personal issues about your own self esteem and trying to pin the reasons for your unhappiness and dissatisfaction on them instead of where the blame belongs.  These unwarranted accusations against people--this strange relationship you're having with your ex-husband, despite being married to your current are all red flags going up in my mind that you're simply a very unhappy miserable person who's trying desperately to drag everyone down with you that you can.  You need to reevaluate your life in prayer to God and get it together--no one can do that for you--not TER--not me or anyone else that seems to threaten your spiritual livelihood.  Prayer is the key--try it.

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## jmdrake

Let's legalize pot.

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## Terry1

> Let's legalize pot.


I loved that movie--LOL

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## moostraks

> Running around the forum bashing Sola or me or anyone else for that matter because you don't agree with their belief system is no ones fault but your own.  You and you alone are responsible for whatever it is that *you choose* to believe.  Blaming others for your lack due diligence to seek answers in prayer because of their behavior and attitudes without keeping your own in check, that aren't up to your standards doesn't leave them responsible for your lack of due diligence to personally seek out God and truth through the tools that He's given you.  
> 
> Now you've been wavering back and forth on subscribing to the EOC for a good long while here with every excuse in book like you believed that we were bowing down to demons, to we thought we were acting superior because we're Greek or Russian and all kinds of absolutely ridiculous accusations about people.  Instead of trying to hang on to other spiritual shirt-tails or blaming everyone and every thing they do or say that seems to have a greater effect on what you believe other than doing a theological study of your own in prayer that will lead you to whatever belief will satisfy this dire need you have to belong to something--anything.  No one can do that for you.  You can't piggy-back your way to heaven.  It's your responsibility to seek it out for yourself.
> 
> What I'm seeing in you after what you've shared in here is a very insecure person with personal issues about your own self esteem and trying to pin the reasons for your unhappiness and dissatisfaction on them instead of where the blame belongs.  These unwarranted accusations against people--this strange relationship you're having with your ex-husband, despite being married to your current are all red flags going up in my mind that you're simply a very unhappy miserable person who's trying desperately to drag everyone down with you that you can.  You need to reevaluate your life in prayer to God and get it together--no one can do that for you--not TER--not me or anyone else that seems to threaten your spiritual livelihood.  Prayer is the key--try it.


Believe what you will but most of this is lies about me. I am very happy in my current marriage but after the pain I went through I don't want to see others hurt so I share my experiences in hopes others don't suffer as I have in my life. Not having to live with your threatening ex being alive you have no right to demand I handle the situation the way you think you would when you lack the wisdom of the variables which color my current decisions. I told you yesterday I know the likely reaction were I to take your advice and you do not.What you think will push buttons here is just not going to be effective. You'd have to listen to what I say in order to develop an understanding of my responses to then have any of the ridiculous claims you are attempting to make even close to being accurate.

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## jmdrake



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## Terry1

> GL with it all TER. I really do wish you peace both you and Terry.


I really would appreciate it you could leave TER alone with regards to what I say and do, and especially in public by stalking me out in threads that have nothing to do with this discussion of yours or obsession--whatever.  He's not me and I'm not him--capiche?  I'm still a lowly catechumen and have not been confirmed in the EOC faith yet--even though it's what I'm currently subscribing to.  So TER is right--you're beating a dead horse trying to lump the other EOC members in with anything I say or do.  They are all far more seasoned than I am, so if you're attempting to ridicule the church and other members based upon what you don't like about me and that is what will either drive you to or from the faith--then TER is right--you're not ready to join anything. 


Personally--IMO--you just want TER's undivided attention and that's no reason to want to join either.  You have to study in prayer and come to your own conclusion as to what you believe is sound doctrine and stop basing it upon what I've said or done that offends your lil sensibilities.   None of us are canonized saint's here--we're all still fighting the good fight the best we can and still lean towards our human weaknesses just like you do.  Start doing your own homework and in prayer.  TER's provided more than enough to allow you to understand how the faith works--if you ain't got it by now--you never will.

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## Sola_Fide

> I rebuke all you guys.


Me too.

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## Sola_Fide

> *What goes on here is mild compared to other forums that are specifically for Christians*.   It is great when the debate is fruitful, but it doesn't happen too often.


Exactly.  I think not too many people are informed about the rigorous debate that goes on in other forums that are for Christians.

Many people (especially people here) think that Christianity is a "fuzzy, mystical thing" that the laws of logic and standards of debate don't apply to.  I think that is the ultimate disrespect for ANY type of person, no matter what kind of Christian you say you are...to have your ideas shoved into the realm of utter subjectivity, and we'll just debate the "important" atheistic philosophy stuff in the main page.

A Biblical Christian is one who worships the Logos, the logic of God.  And what a complete disrespect it is to them that they should be ridiculed for bringing the standards of logic to debates about religion and everything else.

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## Sola_Fide

> Lol. Poor SF...
> 
> I feel really bad about those because it feels like speaking ill of the dead. You got more lives than the energizer bunny SF.


Well...I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me.  I just wish that the discussions were more about the issues rather than the people involved.  I would rather all the glory go to God and He just use me as a messenger.  If there was a way to remain anonymous here, I would do it.

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## Eagles' Wings

> Exactly.  I think not too many people are informed about the rigorous debate that goes on in other forums that are for Christians.
> 
> Many people (especially people here) think that Christianity is a "fuzzy, mystical thing" that the laws of logic and standards of debate don't apply to.  I think that is the ultimate disrespect for ANY type of person, no matter what kind of Christian you say you are...to have your ideas shoved into the realm of utter subjectivity, and we'll just debate the "important" atheistic philosophy stuff in the main page.
> 
> A Biblical Christian is one who worships the Logos, the logic of God.  And what a complete disrespect it is to them that they should be ridiculed for bringing the standards of logic to debates about religion and everything else.


Right, object truth.  We need it in Christian debate.  You've got the mind for it and the world needs it.  Time to branch out???  That is assuming you haven't and/or don't already post at other sites.

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