# Lifestyles & Discussion > Open Discussion >  Question about Driver's License

## garyallen59

I got my new TN driver's license today and on it there is: DD followed by a 16 digit number. Does anyone know what DD stands for or what this might be? I tried google and couldn't find anything. Maybe i'm just bad at searching google. Do other states have this?

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## Anti Federalist

NH uses your initials and dob backwards for DL number.

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## garyallen59

It has the same driver's license number i've always had which is 9 digits but also has this new DD number that i've never seen before that has 16 digits

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## Anti Federalist

> It has the same driver's license number i've always had which is 9 digits but also has this new DD number that i've never seen before that has 16 digits


FEMA camp assignment number...

I'm only half kidding.

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## MelissaWV

On the Ontario licenses:




> I'm not the most technological person in this conversation, I'm quite sure. But, as I understand RFID, it is a physical chip that is obvious (gold, etc.) My new license does not have anything of the sort. It does however carry a second set of numbers that I am not sure of, called DD/REF and some pretty high tech security features.


Interestingly, if you do a search for "DD" as an abbreviation, "Digital Data" is fairly high on the list.

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## garyallen59

> On the Ontario licenses:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, if you do a search for "DD" as an abbreviation, "Digital Data" is fairly high on the list.


that is interesting.

bump.

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## DamianTV

Only question I have; Does it have an RFID Microchip in it?

(Real ID)

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## aGameOfThrones

> Only question I have; Does it have an RFID Microchip in it?
> 
> (Real ID)


You ask too many questions, guards take the mundane away...

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## garyallen59

> Only question I have; Does it have an RFID Microchip in it?
> 
> (Real ID)


i am also wondering that

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## garyallen59

heres a sample picture of the license from TN DMV:

notice no arrows pointing to and explaining the DD Number

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## Expatriate

According to the internets, some people think it stands for Defensive Driving and is a number to prove that you took the course.

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## MelissaWV

> According to the internets, some people think it stands for Defensive Driving and is a number to prove that you took the course.


Also according to the internets, many people who're seeing it on there didn't take Defensive Driving courses

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## Expatriate

> Also according to the internets, many people who're seeing it on there didn't take Defensive Driving courses


Good point, didn't read far enough before posting. Funny thing is that it looks like many (all?) states are putting it on their licenses and yet there seems to be no official explanation.

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## MelissaWV

The example in an earlier post on the thread would be more revealing if the numbers and letters actually corresponded (ie - the "DD" number is just your DL and DOB scrambled together randomly, or something, to generate a reference number unique to your license).  It's all very strange because you'd think your DL is already a unique reference number, and that anyone copying a license would easily be able to copy the reference number as well.

*shrugs* It's not on mine.

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## VBRonPaulFan

it's probably just some number representing an 'account' they have for you on file. for all we know it means 'driver document' followed by the 'number' associated to the account. i think this is much more likely. a cop could just enter the number in his system to pull up all relevant dmv info on you.

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## garyallen59

> it's probably just some number representing an 'account' they have for you on file. for all we know it means 'driver document' followed by the 'number' associated to the account. i think this is much more likely. a cop could just enter the number in his system to pull up all relevant dmv info on you.


why wouldn't they just use the DL number they have already given. it's much shorter. or one of the two barcodes on the back

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## KCIndy

> I got my new TN driver's license today and on it there is: DD followed by a 16 digit number. Does anyone know what DD stands for or what this might be? I tried google and couldn't find anything. Maybe i'm just bad at searching google. Do other states have this?




Have you tried calling the DMV and asking?

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## garyallen59

> Have you tried calling the DMV and asking?


it's saturday so there not open. i received my license today thru mail renewal. but planned on calling monday if no one here figured it out.

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## garyallen59

bump

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## jp5065

It could be the numbers represented by one of the barcodes on the back. In case you draw a line through the barcode.

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## garyallen59

bump for sunday morning bunch

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## acptulsa

> It could be the numbers represented by one of the barcodes on the back. In case you draw a line through the barcode...


...and/or scramble the strip with a magnet.

I smell a federal database.  That said, DD could also stand for Driver's (as opposed to ID card) Class D.

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## DamianTV

So, does it have an RFID Chip in it?

(Bump...)

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## lynnf

darn!  my Texas license has one, too!  it's at the bottom so I never noticed it until now after you mentioned yours.

lynn

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## lynnf

looks like this is the answer:

http://www.articlesbase.com/security...m-2097047.html


National Id Validation (Security) System
Posted: Apr 04, 2010 |Comments: 2 | Views: 787 | 

 National ID

National ID means National Identification of a citizen of a country which is denoted by a unique number.  National ID or National Identification Number is vastly important for a country's citizens. There are two types of National ID. One for the permanent citizen and the other is for the temporary citizen who is living as a guest in the country.

There are so many countries that use national ID for their citizens. The government creates the National ID for the purpose of taxation, passport, for the government agencies and so on.

Bangladesh has a National ID for its citizens. The Bangladesh Election Commission (BEC) was responsible for creating National IDs for the country. The Bangladesh Election Commission, in partnership with the Bangladesh Army, established the Bangladesh Voter Registration Project to digitally register all legal Voters in the country in advance of general elections in December 2008. The biometric registration of voters which began in early 2007 resulted in a database that included photographic and fingerprint records for 80 million voters. BEC mainly created a voter registration ID for the purpose of voting because they faced many difficulties in the previous years during voting periods. They also created a database for the people of 18 years and above. The database contains several information of a citizen of Bangladesh such as name, father's name, mother's name, husband's name (in case of married women), address, birth date and so on. With this information they created a Voter registration ID which was called National ID.

Structure of the ID

Our National ID number contains 13 digits. The structure is "DDRTTUUSSSSSS". The 1st two digits "DD" for District code of the ID holder, next one digit "R" for R.M.O code, the next two digits "TT" for Thana code, next two "UU" are for Union code and the last "SSSSSS" six digits are a sequential number for each citizen of the country. The figure shown below shows the structure of the National ID of Bangladesh which has been created by BEC (Bangladesh Election Commission).

Here,                DD = Code for district

                                      R= code for R.M.O

                                    TT = code for Thana

                                    UU = code for Union

                                    SSSSSS = a serial number for the card holder

Some examples of National ID of Bangladesh are given below:


3921507785193

In this example the 1st two digits are district code which is the code of district Jamalpur. Next one digit for R.M.O and the next two digits for Thana Deoangonj, next two are for Union and the last six digits is a serial number. That means the next number is 3921507785194 for same district, same R.M.O, same Thana, same union.
2613869365057

It is another example of National ID structure. We can see that the number holder is citizen of Dhaka, and the location is in keranigonj thana, subadda union and the serial number is "365057".  So it is clear that "26" is the code of Dhaka district, "1" for R.M.O which name is south keranigong, "38" for thana keranigong and "69" is for the union subadda.

Purpose of National ID

The National ID holds a great advantage for the citizen of any country Illegal people cannot stay in a country without permission of the government of that country. National ID can be used for the purpose of citizenship , permanent residents ,work, taxation, government benefits, health care and other government-related functions. Our National ID is appeared on an identity card issued by the Election Commission.

Although there was a policy adopted that the ID would be used in opening Bank Accounts and the ID card holder would get 22 additional benefits .Meanwhile our National ID is mainly used for the purpose of voting. Still now there is beneficial use of the National ID.

Our National ID system

There is some limitation in our National ID. The main limitation is the ID is the structure of the ID. No system for ID validation and verification. An individual can easily make an illegal ID. Recent newspaper reports show that how easily one can get a fake ID.

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## KCIndy

> Have you tried calling the DMV and asking?






> it's saturday so there not open. i received my license today thru mail renewal. but planned on calling monday if no one here figured it out.


Bump!

So, did you get the chance to call the DMV?  What's the final word on this?

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## Anti Federalist

> Bump!
> 
> So, did you get the chance to call the DMV?  What's the final word on this?


I'm curious as well.




> looks like this is the answer:
> 
> http://www.articlesbase.com/security...m-2097047.html
> 
> 
> National Id Validation (Security) System
> Posted: Apr 04, 2010 |Comments: 2 | Views: 787 |


That's probably it. It would explain why NH licenses don't have it.

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## KCIndy

Not to be picky, but the explanation posted by lynnf doesn't match the description given by garyallen:




> I got my new TN driver's license today and on it there is: *DD followed by a 16 digit number*.


 (emphasis added)


In lynnf's description, the code is only thirteen digits, NOT sixteen.  In addition, the "National ID number" in lynnf's description is actually represented in final form by all thirteen digits being, well, digits.  Garyallen stated that there was actually a "DD" in front of a sixteen digit number...

At any rate, I would be interested in the Tennessee DMV's explanation, so I hope we get a solid follow-up post by the OP.

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## lynnf

> Not to be picky, but the explanation posted by lynnf doesn't match the description given by garyallen:
> 
>  (emphasis added)
> 
> 
> In lynnf's description, the code is only thirteen digits, NOT sixteen.  In addition, the "National ID number" in lynnf's description is actually represented in final form by all thirteen digits being, well, digits.  Garyallen stated that there was actually a "DD" in front of a sixteen digit number...
> 
> At any rate, I would be interested in the Tennessee DMV's explanation, so I hope we get a solid follow-up post by the OP.


I didn't represent that it was an exact match: note that the section refers to itself as the implementation of Bangladesh's national ID.  So what if the US uses 16 digits?  The DD usage is too much to be a coincidence.

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## devil21

Sounds like a testbed for REAL ID.

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## KCIndy

Wow, wow and WOW again!  


Here's an update on what I've been able to find out so far:


Today, I called two local "Driver Service Center" offices in Tennessee where licenses are issued.  Offices were in Cookesville and Franklin.  In both cases, I was told by the person I was (eventually) able to talk to that they had no idea what the "DD" prefix and subsequent 16 digit number stands for.  Neither did the office supervisors, although the supervisors assured me that they had been told that the numbers were for "reference purposes" and had nothing to do with the driver or driver's driving records.  

I was directed to call the main state office in Nashville if I wanted to pursue the question.

I called the Nashville office, and talked to a very friendly lady who said she didn't know the answer to my question, but would pursue it with her supervisor and see what she could find out.  She promised to call me back.

Four hours later with no return calls, I figured I had received the typical bureaucratic blowoff.  Then, to my surprise, the phone rang.  I spoke again with the same lady I had talked to earlier.  

"Virginia" had apparently pursued the question as far up the ranks of supervision as she could, and had finally received an answer.  Her supervisor at the Department of Safety, main Nashville office, told her, "I don't know what it's for.  I think it some sort of internal code used for tracking.... but tell the caller not to worry, it has nothing to do with him or his driving record."



So there you have it.... the official position of the Tennessee Department of Safety, as nearly on the record as I could get it, is a mind-numbing "I dunno."

*Is there anyone who actually lives in Tennessee (I don't) who might be able to persuade their state reps or governor to look into this?*

Clearly someone knows, or else the DD number wouldn't be on the license in the first place.

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## Elwar

DD stands for "Designated Driver". You have been assigned as a designated driver and must drive your drunk friends home. I was given the designated drinker assignment so you'll have to drive me home.

At least, that would be my explanation to anyone who asked.

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## Texan4Life

The new TX driver licenses have them too. 20 digit number. The DD number showed up when they started requiring thumb prints. Wether the two are connected or not I have no clue.

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## dannno

I just got a new California license, it's very similar to the TN license. 1D/2D barcode and similar features.

I have a DD followed by the date of issue followed by 5 digits / 4 alphas / 2 digits (/ included)

Example: DD 01/01/201122222/AAAA/22

Motherfucker.

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## MelissaWV

Do any of the other digits/alphas have anything in common with the codes on the back or your DL#?

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## Expatriate

> ...
> So there you have it.... the official position of the Tennessee Department of Safety, as nearly on the record as I could get it, is a mind-numbing "I dunno."
> 
> *Is there anyone who actually lives in Tennessee (I don't) who might be able to persuade their state reps or governor to look into this?*
> 
> Clearly someone knows, or else the DD number wouldn't be on the license in the first place.


Or anyone who lives in Iowa, California, Washington, Texas or anyone of the other states that apparently have DD numbers on their licenses as well. Are all the states doing this? Seems odd for there to be no explanation.

So far I've seen "explanations" that it means Defensive Driving, Drunk Driving conviction, Deemed Destitute, or Designated Driver. Pshaw.

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## acptulsa

Oklahoma has nothing of the sort.  Just the same one letter plus nine digit number we've had for a very long time.  Of course, we've been working hard to fight REAL ID, too.

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## amberjack

This interesting thread made me google! ^_^

I found something for Texas:

http://www.defensivedriving.com/DDO/DriverRecord.html



this site refers to it as an "Audit Number" with a shorter number appearing on the older licences.  

Now what exactally is an Audit Number?

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## dannno

> I just got a new California license, it's very similar to the TN license. 1D/2D barcode and similar features.
> 
> I have a DD followed by the date of issue followed by 5 digits / 4 alphas / 2 digits (/ included)
> 
> Example: DD 01/01/201122222/AAAA/22
> 
> Motherfucker.


Ok, so I found this out from here: http://www.instructables.com/answers...a-california-/





> * date of issue (you knew that already)
>     * the issuing office number
>     * the issuing employee at that office
>     * and the expiry (FD = "Fee Due") year


Seems pretty harmless, if true..





> Example: DD 01/01/201122222/AAAA/22


This would translate to:

Issue date: 01/01/2011
Issuing office#: 22222
Issuing employee: AAAA
Expiration Year: 2022

(Of course my license expires before 2022, just using the original example)

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## MelissaWV

> This interesting thread made me google! ^_^
> 
> I found something for Texas:
> 
> http://www.defensivedriving.com/DDO/DriverRecord.html
> 
> 
> 
> this site refers to it as an "Audit Number" with a shorter number appearing on the older licences.  
> ...


In theory, someone who wanted to demonstrate an ID was fake would be able to do so by looking at that number.  

*MOST* likely it is a number which contains the date, a code for the location at which it was printed, and possibly the operator number, and very probably a number designating when your license was printed.  That kind of audit information is available on most receipts and the like.  For instance, let's pretend that this is a DD number:

04142011050123001 

It could be something along these lines:

License was printed on 04/14/2011 at location #050 by operator 123.  It was the first license printed that day (usually a discarded "test" license).

That would allow someone really investigating this to match up the license information against the information for that location, that date, and that day in the computer.  

None of this precludes it from being used as a RealID number.

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## mczerone

> "Virginia" had apparently pursued the question as far up the ranks of supervision as she could, and had finally received an answer.  Her supervisor at the Department of Safety, main Nashville office, told her, "I don't know what it's for.  I think it some sort of internal code used for tracking.... but tell the caller not to worry, it has nothing to do with him or his driving record."
> 
> 
> 
> So there you have it.... the official position of the Tennessee Department of Safety, as nearly on the record as I could get it, is a mind-numbing "I dunno."
> 
> ...
> 
> Clearly someone knows, or else the DD number wouldn't be on the license in the first place.


This is disheartening.  Since no one in the DMV knows what its for means it was put there by the State, and likely they're doing it to meet some Federal mandate (otherwise someone in the DMV would have had some say as to what the code would represent, how it would be implemented, and where on the license it would be).

And I love their "don't worry, its not about your driving record" line.  THAT is what is worrying!  (Analogous to the "don't worry, its confidential" line the Census people gave - I don't care that they're not going to share the information; I don't want _them_ to have it in the first place!)  Info on your license should be for DRIVING, anything else is just police-state requirement.

Clearly _someone_ knows, but the fact that the DMV has had no instruction on what it means or for what purpose it's going to be used strongly suggests that it has a nefarious Federal purpose.

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## MelissaWV

Okay I was pretty close without reading dannno's post

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## dannno

> Okay I was pretty close without reading dannno's post


You are a clever fox.

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## lynnf

> Sounds like a testbed for REAL ID.


no, not a testbed; seems it is BECOMING the real id.  what they couldn't get one way, they try another way.

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## devil21

> no, not a testbed; seems it is BECOMING the real id.  what they couldn't get one way, they try another way.


I would agree IF the DD numbers weren't different for every state!  In this thread alone there appear to be at least three different syntaxes for these numbers.  Ill consider it fully REAL ID when the numbers are all uniform.

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## DamianTV

The thing I give a $#@! about is wheter or not that piece of $#@! is microchipped.

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## devil21

> The thing I give a $#@! about is wheter or not that piece of $#@! is microchipped.


Microwave for 20 seconds and it won't matter.

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## thered702

> I got my new TN driver's license today and on it there is: DD followed by a 16 digit number. Does anyone know what DD stands for or what this might be? I tried google and couldn't find anything. Maybe i'm just bad at searching google. Do other states have this?


Just fyi, Nevada has them too. I just looked at tit today, and decided to find out myself. Your thread is the only one I have found so far. I will be sending an email to the secretary of state to see what they know about it. My guess would be nothing. Personally, when they say, "Don't worry," WORRY. 

Please check out therealskinnynews.webs.com I will try and have a definitive answer for you by next weekend. 

Oh! Ours is dd followed by 20 digits, the first three are zeros. No alphas other than the dd.



              Mahatma Tejomaya

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## Icymudpuppy

DD... Your breast size?

Regarding ms. Janice Sample... I wonder if she's related to a navy guy I knew... Seaman Sample.

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## cybermonk

The DD number or (STAN -  System Trace Audit Number) is a reference number. STAN's are used in financial tracking applications. This will most likely be your NEW social security and federal tracking ID number ALL IN ONE! I wouldn't be surprised if it had a chip in it. They also took the money for the new license from a private c-corporation this time. Ouch, the price and time in-line went way up!

Cheers to life, liberty, and utopia in the good ole state of Texas!

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## Confederate

> why wouldn't they just use the DL number they have already given. it's much shorter. or one of the two barcodes on the back


The DL number is probably unique to that license whereas the DD number is for your file at the DMV with records of previous licenses.

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## FrancisMarion

As soon as the bar code came out on the license, I have been scraping the back of my license's to all hell and back.  Through the gravel, razor blades, sand paper.  Anything to make a scanner not work.

If the bastards want my record, they are going to have to find out the old-fashioned way.  I would assume that its now probably illegal to deface your license.

Hey by the way, can I throw my passport in the microwave and it be productive?

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## Invi

> Just fyi, Nevada has them too. I just looked at tit today, and decided to find out myself. Your thread is the only one I have found so far. I will be sending an email to the secretary of state to see what they know about it. My guess would be nothing. Personally, when they say, "Don't worry," WORRY. 
> 
> Please check out therealskinnynews.webs.com I will try and have a definitive answer for you by next weekend. 
> 
> Oh! Ours is dd followed by 20 digits, the first three are zeros. No alphas other than the dd.
> 
> 
> 
>               Mahatma Tejomaya


Truth. My non-driver ID for Nevada has it, but mine has 21 digits.

Just looked at my old non-driver ID from Missouri, which I think I got in 2007. It does not have this.

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## Misawa

hi,
The DD is a requirement of the Homeland Security.  It refers to an assigned facial recognition number used for scanning groups of people, like at the airport.  I have never seen any information from the government explaining what it is, what is its purpose, and why it is required.  I would tend to bet this is something added to another bill out of Congress and HSD hoped for no challenges.

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## Misawa

Hi again,'

It seems that 37 states now use some form of facial recognition software being shared with federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies.

Here is the link:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...497_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/state-photo-id-databases-become-troves-for-police/2013/06/16/6f014bd4-ced5-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html

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## Zippyjuan

First post is to respond to a five year old thread? But welcome anyways!

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