# Lifestyles & Discussion > Privacy & Data Security >  U.S. Court 7th cir.   No more cell phone privacy!

## tod evans

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/06/p...hone-searches/


DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – Think about all the personal information we keep in our cell phones: It’s something to consider after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit ruled it is now legal for police to search cell phones without a warrant.

Former Dallas FBI Agent Danny Defenbaugh said the ruling gives law enforcement a leg up. “I think not only will it help them, but it could be life saving,” said the former Special Agent, who was based in Dallas.

The decision stems from an Indiana case where police arrested a man for dealing drugs. An officer searched the suspect’s cell phone without warrant.

The judge in the appeal case, Judge Richard Posner, agreed that the officer had to search the phone immediately or risk losing valuable evidence. Judge Posner ruled it was a matter of urgency, arguing it was possible for an accomplice to wipe the phone clean using a computer or other remote device.

Defenbaugh says the ruling takes into account exigent or time-sensitive circumstances that could be life saving in more urgent cases, such as child abduction. ”If the child is alive and you’re only minutes behind, that could be critical to recovering that child alive,” added Defenbaugh.

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## HOLLYWOOD

The Judicial system has become the left arm of the Mafioso hit men of the government... "Letters and Effects" mean nothing anymore in this tyrannical state.

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## tod evans

> The Judicial system has become the left arm of the Mafioso hit men of the government... "Letters and Effects" mean nothing anymore in this tyrannical state.



But.........but........It's for the kids.

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## Anti Federalist

> The Judicial system has become the left arm of the Mafioso hit men of the government... "Letters and Effects" mean nothing anymore in this tyrannical state.


Nope, not at all.

Just for those who may not know:

*The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.*

Papers and effects include cel phone.

Searching them without a warrant is unreasonable.

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## ZENemy

So does this mean... 

if one says

"I do not consent to any searches" he can literally grab it from your hand and look around? What if one has a password?

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## kylejack

> So does this mean... 
> 
> if one says
> 
> "I do not consent to any searches" he can literally grab it from your hand and look around? What if one has a password?


If they've already got probable cause on a crime, yes. As to a password, this might stop a cop briefly in the field (and that's why I leave a lock code on mine). Unfortunately, he can just take it back to the station and use tools that they have to pull all the data off the phone. There are not readily-available phones yet with full encryption of data.

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## slamhead

They just keep chipping away don't they. Such a sad state of affairs going on. Note to self...password protect my phone and find an app that wipes the phone if tampered with.

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## FindLiberty

Good luck with that.  Your service provider has all the info (and more) - ready to hand over to LEO with or without a warrant.

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## kylejack

> Good luck with that.  Your service provider has all the info (and more) - ready to hand over to LEO with or without a warrant.


Well, one can theoretically use an app that does encrypted e-mail, voice, or text messaging. A few have shown up in Google Market, though we need to see a lot more come available.

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## noneedtoaggress

> http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/06/p...searches/:mad:
> 
> 
> DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – Think about all the personal information we keep in our cell phones: It’s something to consider after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit ruled it is now legal for police to search cell phones without a warrant.
> 
> Former Dallas FBI Agent Danny Defenbaugh said the ruling gives law enforcement a leg up. “I think not only will it help them, but it could be life saving,” said the former Special Agent, who was based in Dallas.
> 
> The decision stems from an Indiana case where police arrested a man for dealing drugs. An officer searched the suspect’s cell phone without warrant.
> 
> ...


The link goes to a different article.

Also:

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## Titus

Here, the legal argument is correct but the factual assumptions are incorrect. It is generally recognized that the police do not need a warrant if the evidence can expire. An example is blood alcohol content.

However, the evidence on the cellphone is NOT going to spoil if the officer took possession of the phone and got a warrant. This is a shame because Posner is very well respected in legal circles. This is something that clearly shows some justices are more familiar with cellphones than others.

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## aGameOfThrones

> Former Dallas FBI Agent Danny Defenbaugh said the ruling gives law enforcement a leg up. I think not only will it help them, but it could be life saving, said the former Special Agent, who was based in Dallas.

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## Lishy

Is this State of Federal?

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## tod evans

> The link goes to a different article.



fixed;
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/06/p...hone-searches/

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## NoOneButPaul

So you all know, you've never had cell phone privacy. 

Cell phones are so easily to hack into and listen in on that I could go to radioshack and do it for 40$. 

I learned all about how unprivate cell phones are in media law, you really never had any rights with cell phones to begin with because the wireless transmissions can be so easily picked up. 

This isn't a big deal because cell phones have been $#@!ed since their existence. 

My law professor refused to buy one for this exact reason (we're talking only 3 years ago too)

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## NoOneButPaul

Not to mention... everytime you send a text or use your iphone the GPS chip inside stamps your location to apple. 

So if you go missing and cops find your phone they can re-trace your steps. 

If you have an iphone you are already beyond $#@!ed...

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## Anti Federalist

> 


That literally made me LOL

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## AFPVet

They ALWAYS introduce tyranny with _good_ intentions.

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## noneedtoaggress

> fixed;
> http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/06/p...hone-searches/


Thanks!

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## smartguy911

What if one has a lookout app and they remotely wipe everything using the website?  

https://www.mylookout.com/

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## Anti Federalist

Agreed, and that's why I carry a 15 year old, no GPS equipped, "dumb" phone.

But this isn't about actually intercepting transmissions, this is about accessing notes, phone numbers, messages, photos and so on that are stored on the phone itself.

If a warrant is needed to search a laptop, it should be required for this as well.




> So you all know, you've never had cell phone privacy. 
> 
> Cell phones are so easily to hack into and listen in on that I could go to radioshack and do it for 40$. 
> 
> I learned all about how unprivate cell phones are in media law, you really never had any rights with cell phones to begin with because the wireless transmissions can be so easily picked up. 
> 
> This isn't a big deal because cell phones have been $#@!ed since their existence. 
> 
> My law professor refused to buy one for this exact reason (we're talking only 3 years ago too)

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## donnay

> Agreed, and that's why I carry a 15 year old, no GPS equipped, "dumb" phone.
> 
> But this isn't about actually intercepting transmissions, this is about accessing notes, phone numbers, messages, photos and so on that are stored on the phone itself.
> 
> If a warrant is needed to search a laptop, it should be required for this as well.


That's right, it is all about property.  The cell phone is my property and I have an unalienable right to my property!

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## LibForestPaul

> Agreed, and that's why I carry a 15 year old, no GPS equipped, "dumb" phone.
> 
> But this isn't about actually intercepting transmissions, this is about accessing notes, phone numbers, messages, photos and so on that are stored on the phone itself.
> 
> If a warrant is needed to search a laptop, it should be required for this as well.


indeed, guess the law needs to be fixed

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## Danke

I have nothing to hide.

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## Anti Federalist

> I have nothing to hide.


Yeah, right...

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## ZENemy

> I have nothing to hide.





> Yeah, right...


Indeed, even if you don't there will be a law against having "nothing to hide"

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## kylejack

> I have nothing to hide.


Things can incriminate you even if you've broken no law.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Nope, not at all.
> 
> Just for those who may not know:
> 
> *The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.*
> 
> Papers and effects include cel phone.
> 
> Searching them without a warrant is unreasonable.


The problem with this argument is that the courts at every level have ruled that there is no such thing as a right to privacy.  If it's possible to hack a phone remotely, they could probably come up with a legal maneuver to cover their asses pretty easily. (government cops have basically unlimited access to attorneys and legal brainiacs, as you know)

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## Danke

> Things can incriminate you even if you've broken no law.


Paranoid delusionalism.

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## kylejack

> Paranoid delusionalism.


Nope, talking to the police or letting them look at your stuff can hang you even if you've done nothing wrong. Fast forward in particular to 21:30.

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## Danke

> Nope, talking to the police or letting them look at your stuff can hang you even if you've done nothing wrong. Fast forward in particular to 21:30.


Case in point.

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## ZENemy

Cops planting drugs.

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