# Lifestyles & Discussion > Science & Technology >  Do cars come with anti-virus software  pre-installed?

## enhanced_deficit

Or owners have to intall it/update it?

Just wondering after reading the controversies about Michael Hastings crash scandal.

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## Dr.3D

I'm trying to figure out how a computer in a car would be exposed to a virus.  It isn't like it is on the internet.

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## tod evans

> I'm trying to figure out how a computer in a car would be exposed to a virus.  It isn't like it is on the internet.


Bluetooth.

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## Dr.3D

> Bluetooth.


Isn't that just audio?

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## tod evans

> Isn't that just audio?


I don't know....

I read an article since the reporter crashed that suggested it was possible..

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## enhanced_deficit

> I'm trying to figure out how a computer in a car would be exposed to a virus.  It isn't like it is on the internet.


Hackers can access things that are not on internet.
If cars engines can be remotely disabled by manufacturer installed tools/Onstar etc or speed limits can be pre-programmed from keys, won't they have risk of malfunction/foul play from unauthorized access?

Used the term "virus" in very loose sense here.

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## Dr.3D

> Hackers can access things that are not on internet.
> If cars engines can be remotely disabled by manufacturer installed tools/Onstar etc or speed limits can be pre-programmed from keys, won't they have risk of malfunction/foul play from unauthorized access?
> 
> Used the term "virus" in very loose sense here.


I don't have enough information to be able to confirm or deny the ability to remotely control an automobile using the on-board computer.  We would first have to know what Onstar can do.    Does anybody have all of that information besides the manufacturer?  I'm betting they do.   It would be interesting to know what changes Onstar can make to the on-board computer.

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## paulbot24

What about systems like Lo-jack that they say only go online when activated by...say....the police?

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## enhanced_deficit

It was in news that Obama team or Boston police had called Mercedez to have them remotely shut down engine of the car that Bostom marathon suspect had commandeered and was in hot chase.  They seemed to think it was possible.


*Device can remotely halt auto chases - ABC News*
abcnews.go.com › Money‎
Cops Can Stop Car Chases Via Satellite. *...* Police will only be allowed to ask for a shutdown when they have a vehicle in sight. An OnStar operator will inform *...**Big Brother? OnStar Shuts Down Stolen Car During Police Chase*  Jul 18, 2012 - OnStar Shuts Down Stolen Car During High Speed Chase Near Chicago Two police departments, a helicopter and dozens of cruisers were hot *...**Hackers Could Shut Down Car Engines! - Softpedia News*
news.softpedia.com › News › Security‎
*Oct 11, 2007* - So, basically, should the Police be chasing a stolen vehicle, or a speeding one, they could call GM and ask for them to remotely shut down the *...*

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## 69360

> I'm trying to figure out how a computer in a car would be exposed to a virus.  It isn't like it is on the internet.


Some are. Don't buy a car with all that crap in it.




> Bluetooth.


possibly




> Isn't that just audio?


no, you can transfer data and files




> What about systems like Lo-jack that they say only go online when activated by...say....the police?


No, they are just a locating device not tied into control systems.




> It was in news that Obama team or Boston police had called Mercedez to have them remotely shut down engine of the car that Bostom marathon suspect had commandeered and was in hot chase.  They seemed to think it was possible.


Yes, GM does this too with onstar. It can unlock doors, flash lights shut the car off etc.

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## CPUd

Cars use the cell towers to communicate via systems like OnStar.  They also use it to download software/firmware updates from the provider for their nav systems and nowadays, more critical systems like the electrical systems.  If you have the right equipment, you can make one of these cars treat your system as the provider.

Bluetooth uses radio signals, although it is designed to operate at a shorter range, generally with other devices inside the vehicle, but could also be a parking lot.  It is a communication medium, so it can be used for anything that requires short-range 2-way communication.

I've built a couple fully-functioning systems to be installed in an auto; I got the idea from watching the original _The Fast and the Furious_ movie, and how they connected to a on-board display, so I hooked one to my OBD-II port so I could see what was really wrong when the 'check engine' light came on.  Back then, it was a cool thing to do, but now they are becoming standard, and used for a lot of other stuff.  You start with a mini-ITX or smaller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_form_factor and the case is thicker, and built like a heatsink:



Once you bring wifi into the system, you open it up to wardrivers and drive-by uploaders like people used to do riding around with laptops.  If your car has wifi, it will probably be running as a client looking for open connections.  This dude could pull up next to you at a stoplight:

http://www.crackajack.de/2013/05/25/...ng-motorcycle/

AV software is not as important in these systems, strong network security and data integrity is critical.

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## 69360

Actually the cell towers are the backup for onstar, it communicates with the satellites directly.

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## enhanced_deficit

> AV software is not as important in these systems, strong network security and data integrity is critical.





> SATURDAY, JULY 6, 2013
> *As Software Takes Over, Network Gear Could Be in Jeopardy*


http://online.barrons.com/article/SB...bs_article%3D1

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## enhanced_deficit

> Actually the cell towers are the backup for onstar, it communicates with the satellites directly.


Hopefully cell towers and satellites have good AV software installed.

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## Natural Citizen

If people were smart they would ditch anti-virus software.

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## enhanced_deficit

Have not seen any confirmed report in MSM that AV makers were in bed with drone king's puppet masters.


*College students remotely hijack $80M Yacht*

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## Dr.3D

> If people were smart they would ditch anti-virus software.


Sometimes I wonder if some of this anti-virus software isn't written by the NSA so as to make a backdoor to the machines they have it installed in.

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## AFPVet

Most viruses affect Microsoft based operating systems. If vehicles are anything like digital mixing consoles, they are Unix based and not susceptible to typical viruses.

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## ClydeCoulter

> Most viruses affect Microsoft based operating systems. If vehicles are anything like digital mixing consoles, they are Unix based and not susceptible to typical viruses.


Yes, most viruses are written to "target" Microsoft Windows operating systems.  All operating systems are susceptible to the virus that targets them.

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## DamianTV

If they have a Computer that can be accessed remotely, then they will need Anti Virus software.  One particular quote from AF comes to mind:

*$#@!.  A.  Bunch.  Of.  Computer.  Cars.*

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## enhanced_deficit

*Tesla Model S car hacked by Chinese security firm from 19km away using 'malicious' wi-fi hotspot*

                  Updated      21 Sep 2016, 7:50am     

A Chinese security team has hacked into a Tesla car driving on autopilot from a distance of almost 20 kilometres.
According  to a blog post from the Keen Security Lab, the team was able to  remotely control the vehicle's brakes, dashboard computer, side mirrors  and door locks in the Tesla Model S in both "parking and driving mode".
"It is worth to note (sic) that we used an unmodified car with latest firmware to demonstrate the attack," the hackers wrote.
"We  have verified the attack vector on multiple varieties of Tesla Model S.  It is reasonable to assume that other Tesla models are affected."
In a video posted to YouTube, the hackers demonstrate the remote operation of the car in a carpark at low speeds "for safety".
Tesla reported that the hackers were able to gain access to the vehicle via a malicious wi-fi hotspot, and then a web browser.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-2...m-away/7866410





Related


*The FBI Warns That Car Hacking Is a Real Risk* 
https://www.wired.com/2016/03/fbi-wa...ing-real-risk/
Mar 17, 2016 - It's been eight months since a pair of security researchers proved beyond any doubt that car hacking is more than an action movie plot device ...


*9 Most Hackable Cars*
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto...le-cars-1.aspx
Can your car be hacked? A new report from Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek details potential cyber vulnerabilities making certing car models hackable.

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## enhanced_deficit

*A Deep Flaw in Your Car Lets Hackers Shut Down Safety Features*

Since two security researchers showed they could hijack a moving Jeep  on a highway three years ago, both automakers and the cybersecurity  industry have accepted that connected cars are as vulnerable to hacking  as anything else linked to the internet. But one new car-hacking trick  illustrates that while awareness helps, protection can be extremely  complex.  They've uncovered a vulnerability in vehicular internal  networks that's not only near-universal, but also can be exploited while  bypassing the auto industry's first attempts at anti-hacking  mechanisms.
Security firm Trend Micro on Wednesday published a blog post  highlighting a little-noticed automotive hacking technique it presented  at the DIVMA security conference in Bonn, Germany last month, along  with researchers at LinkLayer Labs and the Polytechnic University of  Milan. Their work points to a fundamental security issue in the CAN  protocol that car components use to communicate and send commands to one  another within the car's network, one that would allow a hacker who  accesses the car's internals to shut off key automated components,  including safety mechanisms.
"You could disable  the air bags, the anti-lock brakes, or the door locks, and steal the  car," says Federico Maggi, one of the Trend Micro researchers who  authored the paper.  Maggi says the attack is stealthier than previous attempts, foiling  even the few intrusion detection systems some companies like Argus and  NNG have promoted as a way to head off car hacking threats. "It's  practically impossible to detect at the moment with current technology,"  he says.1

https://www.wired.com/story/car-hack...fety-features/

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## enhanced_deficit

*Trump will decide if auto imports are a national security threat*

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## DamianTV

Everything in cars is now becoming Wireless, which measn EVERYTHING is vulnerable to hacking / viruses / exploits.  They are going for some sort of "feel" that every car "feels" like every other type of car.  Including your $#@!ing BRAKES.  No actual pedal that connects from your break pedal to the mechanics, no its gotta be goddamn bluetooth / wifi now, which means a remote hacker can remotely trigger your brakes.  Yeah, cops can do that too so its a "feature" not a "bug".

$#@!.  A.  Bunch.  Of.  Computer.  Cars.

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## enhanced_deficit

> *TESLA goes down in massive network outage...
> 
> Fears of major hack...*
> 
> 
> Tesla has been hit by complete network outage starting around 11am ETInternal systems are down, making it impossible for staff to process ordersOn the customer side, some users cannot connect to their car in the appThe US and Europe are experiencing issues with what appears to be the appThe outage follows Tesla's Battery Day that many investors deemed a failureElon Musk had promised an innovation to cut prices of electric carsHowever, the CEO said it may take another three years before that is possibleStocks in Tesla Inc fell more than seven percent as markets opened Wednesday
> 
> By Stacy Liberatore For Dailymail.com 
>  Published:  23 September 2020



Also, it should be ensured that majority and controlling stakes in such companies would be from American investors.




> Alleged Israeli spy and political blackmailer Jeffrey Epstein had 'spoken to the Saudis' about  investing in Elon Musk's Tesla





On a side note a different kind of AV cars are hitting the market:

*Are 'anti-virus' cars in China just a gimmick?*

BBC News
1 May 2020
Car makers in China are tapping into health concerns by launching vehicles with anti-virus features.
New models aim to provide the same level of protection inside the cabin as wearing a face mask. 
Some  of the country's biggest carmakers have launched new cars with such  features including Geely, which also makes London black cabs.
China saw car sales plummet in the first quarter of the year amid a nationwide coronavirus lockdown.
Geely  was the first brand to launch anti-virus features, building on earlier  work it was doing to appeal to motorists worried about air pollution in  big cities.
Its  “Healthy Car Project” aims to stop tiny particles entering the car,  potentially protecting drivers and passengers from harmful substances. 
Geely is also developing anti-microbial materials to keep its car controls and door handles free of bacteria and viruses.

bbc.com/news/business-52470592

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