# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Kokesh Arrested

## better-dead-than-fed

*Mod edit:





 Originally Posted by JK/SEA  
From a facebook post: 

''If you are trying to call to inquire about Adam's status at the Federal facility in Pennsylvania - you need to have his inmate ID number, or you will wait on hold forever, and then they will not talk to you. The number is: 215-521-4000 (wait a few seconds, then press 0). They will ask for his inmate ID, which is 69371-066. If you don't have that number, they will refer you to the WRONG website to obtain it. It is a stalling mechanism.''


*

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## asurfaholic

so whats the story? I watched it. When did it happen? What are charges? Why does the crowd just let the police arrest him?

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## sailingaway

> so whats the story? I watched it. When did it happen? What are charges? Why does the crowd just let the police arrest him?


That's what happened when Brent Stafford was arrested just because he was regrouping the improperly ejected MO caucus as well.  They go for the guy leading.  Whatever comes next will have less media than what was being planned, and less of a head of steam, they hope.

At least I presume that is their reasoning.

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## compromise

I think most of us knew it would happen at some point.

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## better-dead-than-fed

> so whats the story? I watched it. When did it happen? What are charges? Why does the crowd just let the police arrest him?


I believe it happened ten minutes ago at a weed rally. I have no other details.

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## fr33

> I think most of us knew it would happen at some point.


Well sure because a lot of us have been arrested at some point. It's always bound to happen.

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## asurfaholic

> I think most of us knew it would happen at some point.


I did as well, but that doesn't make it right. I am just wondering what was going on out there, I cant find any info on it ATM...

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## better-dead-than-fed

I learned about it on Twitter here:

https://twitter.com/kennethlipp

The guy who tweeted it was at the rally and uploaded the video, I think.

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## Lucille

Earlier:






> Who doesnt want to own themselves? Who doesnt want to be free? Who doesnt want to meet their fellow human beings with the love, faith, and respect that is essential to maintaining a free society? Government is this vestigial organ of social violence soon to be amputated and cast aside as the useless, horrid, puss-filled leach that it is.

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## John F Kennedy III

So he got arrested for smoking weed?

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## better-dead-than-fed

> So he got arrested for smoking weed?


Your mileage may vary but I didn't see him smoking anything, and I did see others smoking something.

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## fr33

I imagine they probably witnessed him smoking weed at some point then swooped in right when he was speaking.

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## Christian Liberty

What did he do?

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## Root

I'm pretty sure NJWeedman was in the front row smoking.

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## WhistlinDave

He may not have even smoked anything; they can probably invent some charge just to make an example of him, like conspiracy to incite freedom while respectably dressed.

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## better-dead-than-fed

> Adam has been arrested and is in jail in Philly... I can personally testify that he hadn't even smoked yet... everyone please phone bomb the philly police and jail phone lines and demand adam be released amd able to make contact with us... other protesters were actually smoking and released after arrest but adam was taken away in a white chevy suburban... phone bomb them now!!! --- Brother Lucas


https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMA...51402203186260

ETA: feds love their suburbans

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## Aratus

> So he got arrested for smoking weed?


I am trying not to ask too many questions myself... but if I had to guess...

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## pcosmar

Another angle




Looks like they targeted him specifically. A preemptive arrest perhaps.

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## PatriotOne

Cointel Kokesh arrested?  I'm okay with that .

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## Aratus

his  2nd amendment gun totin' rally for good ole d.c must have the feds swarming all over him.
even parading around on july 3rd with some toy waterpistols an' the like has the feds very edgy.

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## pcosmar

> What did he do?


He spoke up.

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## Barrex

> Cointel Kokesh arrested?  I'm okay with that .


If that wasnt a joke.... then you are very scary person.





So since it is weekend he will probably be there till Monday.?!

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## kcchiefs6465

> If that wasnt a joke.... they you are very scary person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So since it is weekend he will probably be there till Monday.?!


Yes, he will see the judge Monday.

And something tells me Patriotone is not joking. You have to be a real bitch to wish anyone jail. Hopefully Adam is out as soon as possible.

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## Peace&Freedom

> Cointel Kokesh arrested?  I'm okay with that .


The fact that he was arrested is straightforward evidence that he is _not_ Cointelpro. Real provocateurs (whom I have witnessed in person at NY marijuana rallies) always set _other people_ up for arrest, while the authorities give the provocateurs a pass.

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## PatriotOne

> And something tells me Patriotone is not joking. You have to be a real bitch to wish anyone jail. Hopefully Adam is out as soon as possible.


He was asking for it.  Why would I feel sorry for him?  He knew he was going to be arrested.  Now we are all suppose to get up in arms about it?  That's dumb.

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## Aratus

so... they think they found some stems and weed seeds in the hip pocket on his blue jeans? 
as in one hundredth of an ounce thereto of? also a few zigzag sheets? methinks if there is
any justification or truth to the basic charge? bill clinton  once proved you can get stoned
on someone else's hashish smoke if you strategically position yourself inside a hippie group.

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## asurfaholic

> He was asking for it.  Why would I feel sorry for him?  He knew he was going to be arrested.  Now we are all suppose to get up in arms about it?  That's dumb.


Wait, when did he ask for it? Is standing up and telling people to stand up for their freedom considered asking for arrest? Do you wish imprisonment on everyone who is actually willing to stand up against the oppressive state?

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## PatriotOne

> The fact that he was arrested is straightforward evidence that he is _not_ Cointelpro. Real provocateurs (whom I have witnessed in person at NY marijuana rallies) always set _other people_ up for arrest, while the authorities give the provocateurs a pass.


Not really.  Cointel pro doesn't always work for the police department.  They might not know a damn thing about Adam.  Now if he ends up with a long prison sentence then you might have a case.

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## green73

> He was asking for it.  Why would I feel sorry for him?  He knew he was going to be arrested.  Now we are all suppose to get up in arms about it?  That's dumb.


MLK was asking for it too I suppose.

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## green73

> Not really.  Cointel pro doesn't always work for the police department.  They might not know a damn thing about Adam.  Now if he ends up with a long prison sentence then you might have a case.


What makes you think he's Cointel?

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## PatriotOne

> Wait, when did he ask for it? Is standing up and telling people to stand up for their freedom considered asking for arrest? Do you wish imprisonment on everyone who is actually willing to stand up against the oppressive state?


They were committing an illegal act by smoking weed (whether you agree with the law or not doesn't matter).  I don't know if Kokesh was smoking at the time but he seemed to be one who was leading the activities since he had the microphone.

So yeah.  Wouldn't you expect to get arrested if you lit up a joint in front of the police where it is illegal?  I would.  Unless Kokesh is retarded, he expected it also.

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## TheTexan

> What makes you think he's Cointel?


Because he disagrees with Adam's methods and therefore he must be cointel

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## pcosmar

> *They* were committing an illegal act by smoking weed


They weren't arrested.
And "they" have been having "Smoke downs" regularly.

And by the accounts of several witnesses Adam was not smoking.

he was targeted and dragged out of the crowd.

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## better-dead-than-fed

> They were committing an illegal act by smoking weed (whether you agree with the law or not doesn't matter).  I don't know if Kokesh was smoking at the time but he seemed to be one who was leading the activities since he had the microphone.
> 
> So yeah.  Wouldn't you expect to get arrested if you lit up a joint in front of the police where it is illegal?  I would.  Unless Kokesh is retarded, he expected it also.


Anyone with a microphone is COINTEL and should be seized by the government? Just to make sure I understand your reasoning?

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## Keith and stuff

If he smoked weed in front of a cop then he is a known drug user and federally banned from having a gun.

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## JK/SEA

he'll be kept in custody till 7/6.

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## sailingaway

> Another angle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they targeted him specifically. A preemptive arrest perhaps.



I'm sure this is about march on washington not weed.  They know arresting him on the march would get much bigger headlines and automatic conservative support from huge factions, even those who are law and order types, typically.  Weed is less sympathetic.

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## PatriotOne

> he was targeted and dragged out of the crowd.


Of course he was.  He had JUST walked off stage. He was up on stage next to the speaker inciting the dumbasses to light up joints illegally seconds before he was arrested.  He made a target of himself.  Can't believe people are shocked about Kokesh being arrested....lol.

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## sailingaway

> If he smoked weed in front of a cop then he is a known drug user and federally banned from having a gun.


someone posted on facebook that as a fact he hadn't smoked that day. Obviously, not having been there myself....

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## WhistlinDave

On his Fedbook page:




> Adam has been arrested and is in jail in Philly... I can personally testify that he hadn't even smoked yet... everyone please phone bomb the philly police and jail phone lines and demand adam be released amd able to make contact with us... other protesters were actually smoking and released after arrest but adam was taken away in a white chevy suburban... phone bomb them now!!! --- Brother Lucas


And then about a hundred comments asking for the phone number.  (Duh, Lucas!  LOL)  Here are some of the phone #s given by others:

215-686-8686
215-686-3280  Non-emergency
215-686-3007  9th district (?)
215-686-1234  "Rotary"

https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMA...51402203186260

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## sailingaway

> Of course he was.  He had JUST walked off stage. He was up on stage next to the speaker inciting the dumbasses to light up joints illegally seconds before he was arrested.  He made a target of himself.  Can't believe people are shocked about Kokesh being arrested....lol.


being arrested for standing on stage next to someone is a new criminal charge I hadn't seen on the books before.

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## Aratus

> he'll be kept in custody till 7/6.


they are on the verge of saying it was some high quality hashish
he was "bogarting" rather than the local marijuana that has only
a bit more THC than wild hemp plants? he just might have to be
moneybomb liberated by us on France's Bastille Day at this rate!

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## PatriotOne

> Anyone with a microphone is COINTEL and should be seized by the government? Just to make sure I understand your reasoning?


Yeah...that's exactly what I said.  You win a prize.  Here's your T-shirt.

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## Barrex

> Of course he was.  He had JUST walked off stage. He was up on stage next to the speaker inciting the dumbasses to light up joints illegally seconds before he was arrested.  He made a target of himself.  Can't believe people are shocked about Kokesh being arrested....lol.


No one is shocked that he is arrested. People, well most of us, are not happy because he is arrested. Another human being that didnt hurt anyone or anything is thrown in cage and people (at least few of us) are shocked that you "are ok with that."...yes you are ok with that with a smiley.

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## better-dead-than-fed

> Of course he was.  He had JUST walked off stage. He was up on stage next to the speaker inciting the dumbasses to light up joints illegally seconds before he was arrested.  He made a target of himself.  Can't believe people are shocked about Kokesh being arrested....lol.


So _standing next to_ someone "inciting" people to smoke weed makes him COINTEL and should be seized by the gov. Alrighty then.

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## PatriotOne

> being arrested for standing on stage next to someone is a new criminal charge I hadn't seen on the books before.


Yeah...that's what happened.  You win a prize also.

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## sailingaway

Reminder: attacks are against TOS.

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## JK/SEA

Looks like someone is trying to make Kokesh a martyr. Works for me.

Damn..i live in the Pacific Northwest. Its a long way to DC via car. Thats the only reason i haven't committed to going to the gun rally....i got one foot inside the car door now...

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## better-dead-than-fed

Might want to put the videos on P2P before police come to your homes and confiscate your copies.

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## PatriotOne

> No one is shocked that he is arrested. People, well most of us, are not happy because he is arrested. Another human being that didnt hurt anyone or anything is thrown in cage and people (at least few of us) are shocked that you "are ok with that."...yes you are ok with that with a smiley.


I'm not okay with people who smoke pot being thrown in jail unless they are a bunch of dumbasses being useful idiots for cointel pro.  Kokesh is cointel pro and not a dumbass so I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

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## JK/SEA

> I'm not okay with people who smoke pot being thrown in jail unless they are a bunch of dumbasses being useful idiots for cointel pro.  Kokesh is cointel pro and not a dumbass so I hope he gets the book thrown at him.


 cointelpro?....thats your opinion. Nothing else.

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## sailingaway

> Looks like someone is trying to make Kokesh a martyr. Works for me.
> 
> Damn..i live in the Pacific Northwest. Its a long way to DC via car. Thats the only reason i haven't committed to going to the gun rally....i got one foot inside the car door now...


Unfortunately it is on the wrong issue.  Which is why they didn't want to make him a martyr on what I am sure is the real reason they were stalking him, the DC march.

Alex Jones said he was going on that.  That would have been highly publicized.  Wonder if AJ is still going?

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## pcosmar

This was the rally last month,




Wasn't arrested then.
In fact from what I can find,, this was the Fifth one in Philly. And a good crowd of folks.
Police were not targeting the crowd of smokers.

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## JK/SEA

> Unfortunately it is on the wrong issue.  Which is why they didn't want to make him a martyr on what I am sure is the real reason they were stalking him, the DC march.
> 
> Alex Jones said he was going on that.  That would have been highly publicized.  Wonder if AJ is still going?


problem is, this 'arrest' is transparent. It will only serve to inflame sympathizers.

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## pcosmar

> 


You really need a new shirt.

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## JK/SEA

> You really need a new shirt.


i thought stupid was spelled with 2 'O's'...?

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## sailingaway

> problem is, this 'arrest' is transparent. It will only serve to inflame sympathizers.


It will not serve to wake up those concerned with the 2d amendment and govt tyranny as an arrest on the DC march might have done, however.

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## JK/SEA

> It will not serve to wake up those concerned with the 2d amendment and govt tyranny as an arrest on the DC march might have done, however.


hard to say at this point. Keep an eye on the attendee count on facebook.

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## Aratus

> i thought stupid was spelled with 2 'O's'...?


it usually is, and sometimes there is the words I'M WITH preceding it...

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## Brian4Liberty

Video from an earlier event:

http://youtu.be/axE83zcx6wY

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## pcosmar

> Video from an earlier event:
> 
> http://youtu.be/axE83zcx6wY


404 not found.

I posted one from last month.

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## JK/SEA

according to a post on facebook, he's been released.

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## WhistlinDave

> according to a post on facebook, he's been released.


I think that's disinformation.  I'm seeing posts on Kokesh's page (from other people) saying he was/is being taken to a Federal detention center for not having any ID on him.  Here is a post from a few minutes ago:




> reliable vetted info from a reliable source Nathan Cox:
> LISTEN UP FOLKS, Adam Kokesh friends, family and supporters.
> Adam Kokesh of AdamVsTheMan has been taken captive NOT by the Philly Police but by Federal PARK POLICE. I just spoke with a woman in the Park Police (215-597-7077) who spoke with her supervisor for me.
> Her supervisor said that the Park Police have taken him to 401 NORTH 21st Street which is the 9th District. They do NOT have Positive ID on him right now and if they can't get positive ID within the next 30-45 minutes they will be taking him to a near by FEDERAL DETENTION Center.
> I was told that if people go to that location they MIGHT be able to help get him out (possibly by ID'ing him.. IDK)
> 
> So the 9th District's # is: 215-686-3090
> If you are on the ground up there you need to SURROUND that building IMMEDIATELY.
> MELT the phone lines.


No idea how accurate this is, just passing it along.

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## sailingaway

> I think that's disinformation.  I'm seeing posts on Kokesh's page (from other people) saying he was/is being taken to a Federal detention center for not having any ID on him.  Here is a post from a few minutes ago:
> 
> 
> 
> No idea how accurate this is, just passing it along.


federal makes more sense if it is really about the march.

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## Brian4Liberty

Looks like FEMA camp or Guantanamo for Adam...

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## Barrex

> Dave Dutro Hey  I got his bail money right here someone help me I have called every  number and THE PIGS WON'T TELL ME ANYTHING THEY ARE HDING HIM IN THEIR  SYSTEM AND REFUSING TO GIVE OUT PUBLIC INFOMATION. SOMEONE FROM KOKESHS  STAFF HIT ME UP


2 characters tyranny.

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## pcosmar

> according to a post on facebook, he's been released.


Not that I can tell.
But this just posted at Live Leak.



> reliable vetted info from a reliable source Nathan Cox:
> LISTEN UP FOLKS, Adam Kokesh friends, family and supporters.
> Adam Kokesh of AdamVsTheMan has been taken captive NOT by the Philly Police but by Federal PARK POLICE. I just spoke with a woman in the Park Police (215-597-7077) who spoke with her supervisor for me.
> Her supervisor said that the Park Police have taken him to 401 NORTH 21st Street which is the 9th District. They do NOT have Positive ID on him right now and if they can't get positive ID within the next 30-45 minutes they will be taking him to a near by FEDERAL DETENTION Center.
> I was told that if people go to that location they MIGHT be able to help get him out (possibly by ID'ing him.. IDK)

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## Uriel999

well golly gee....just a couple months before his planned wave making protest in DC!

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## Aratus

the national PARK service nabbed him for the wacky toe-backie weed he  sometimes smokes becuz the smell lingers on cloth?

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## Aratus

we may have to get him identified and bailed out before they ship him to a lil camp on the big denali park  that is near mt. mckinley

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## Brian4Liberty

Very possible that they want to get him now, so that they can threaten him with severe penalties for future protests. Setting the precedence to call him a repeat offender later.

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## pcosmar

> Very possible that they want to get him now, so that they can threaten him with severe penalties for future protests. Setting the precedence to call him a repeat offender later.


As i recall, he has been arrested before,, for speaking against the war, and for dancing in public.

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## better-dead-than-fed

> This is not about me.... If anything should happen to me... it will be of no consequence.... If I were to die tomorrow, someone else will take my place on Independence Day....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f3NT...ure=youtu.be&a

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## pcosmar

> Don't worry everyone.  Adam will be quite popular and probably get special privileges in prison.


Someone as ignorant as you should not even talk about prison,, or anything you know nothing about.

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## silverhandorder

Whats your problem? Don't like him? Go make your own thread about it and get ignored as you should be. $#@!ing crazy conspiracy nut troll.

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## satchelmcqueen

THIS is what i think also. they got him. they may have stamped out the march on the 4th. but who says it wont happen afterwards?


> he'll be kept in custody till 7/6.

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## Aratus

agreed

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## pcosmar

> THIS is what i think also. they got him. they may have stamped out the march on the 4th. but who says it wont happen afterwards?


Who says it won't happen anyway. He is not the only believer in the 2nd Amendment.

This may even bring more.

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## silverhandorder

> Who says it won't happen anyway. He is not the only believer in the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> This may even bring more.


A smarter way would be just to wait until the release him and do it then. Will make this tactic obsolete.

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## Professor8000

I'm pretty sure that Adam's attendance will not effect the march. His captivity will likely increase its popularity.

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## WhistlinDave

The march will still happen without him.  And I think it would be better to have it happen on the 4th with or without him, to show them this tactic won't work.

I called again, and this time informed them of who I am -- a freelance writer for the Los Angeles Times who covers Constitutional law issues and government abuses of Constitutional rights -- and I'm trying to get some information for a story I'm working on about the arrest of protester Adam Kokesh... *click*  Hung up on me as soon as I said his name.  

I called back, and got a busy signal for a long time, then finally got through to a different officer who told me "I can't give you any information, that's his private business, and if you want to know you need to speak with him after we release him.  So please stop calling."  Then he hung up.  Called right back and got the same guy, and he did not want to give me a statement on behalf of the department or direct me to anyone who could.

I hope they realize that arresting him is kind of like when Obi Wan said to Vader, "If you strike me down, I will only become more powerful."

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## Aratus

this all has alex jones marching by his lonesome as he is surrounded by the other marchers

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## better-dead-than-fed

Impressed by the eloquence of Kokesh's detractor.

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## Working Poor

> Don't worry everyone.  Adam will be quite popular and probably get special privileges in prison.


wtf is this a picture of?

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## Aratus

i am not sure if its 

photoshopped and smutty 

or just simply smutty

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## wizardwatson

> I hope they realize that arresting him is kind of like when Obi Wan said to Vader, "If you strike me down, I will only become more powerful."


I think I just vomited in my mouth a little.

If they shot Ghandi and Martin Luther King and nobody did jack, I doubt the liberty movement in it's current state would have more than a fraction of a second blink before it clicked "new posts".

Kokesh is an almost nobody and my opinion is that most of the people rooting for him are the same kinds of people who watch nascar to see tons of steel hurled into the audience.

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## PatriotOne

> i am not sure if its 
> 
> photoshopped and smutty 
> 
> or just simply smutty


Adam posted it on his own facebook page soooooooooo..........

https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMAN/photos_stream

I just added the gay pornstar part of course.

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## Aratus

if this thread goes into Hot Topics, could we send the rude one  from today also into Hot Topics 
where I opinion how gay J.Edgar actually was?  its the "macbird" bisexual LBJ one...  given that
the second thread about the HISTORY CHANNEL has less said in it about poor potus JFK's death... 
and Warlord tends to prefer it over the 11 a.m one with the same short video.  PatriotOne is not 
fond of Adam Kokesh's bold attempts at activism, Pat1 thinks Adam is hiding a salary from our IRS.

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## sailingaway

> Who says it won't happen anyway. He is not the only believer in the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> This may even bring more.


It would if it hit media as 'guy who had highly publicized second amendment  march on DC planned arrested to forestall event' rather than 'guy arrested at weed rally'.

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## PatriotOne

> PatriotOne is not
> fond of Adam Kokesh's bold attempts at activism, *he thinks Adam is hiding a salary from our IRS*.


The IRS?  I never said that.

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## Aratus

dude... be logical... all agent provocateurs 
who have to travel about domestically should
file tax returns if having big wads of money

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## WhistlinDave

> Your right.  I feel really bad now.  Let me help.  Feel free to print up hundreds of these posters and go march against Kokesh getting arrested intentionally.



Dude, that's actually his own bicep and forearm.  It's not porn.  (Sorry to disappoint you.)

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## pcosmar

> It would if it hit media as 'guy who had highly publicized second amendment  march on DC planned arrested to forestall event' rather than 'guy arrested at weed rally'.


In case it is lost on anyone,, weed is becoming mainstream. Voters are voting to legalize it all across the country.

"Reefer Madness" is now largely recognized as a dumb joke.
it does not have the negative connotations it once did. Except for the truly authoritarian fascists. (methinks they are the minority)

----------


## silverhandorder

Haha I never seen someone with so much hate.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> I think I just vomited in my mouth a little.
> 
> If they shot Ghandi and Martin Luther King and nobody did jack, I doubt the liberty movement in it's current state would have more than a fraction of a second blink before it clicked "new posts".
> 
> Kokesh is an almost nobody and my opinion is that most of the people rooting for him are the same kinds of people who watch nascar to see tons of steel hurled into the audience.


No, my point was, if they are arresting him to try to suppress the march on the 4th, it's not going to work.  It's only going to get more people riled up and involved even if he can't attend.

ETA:  I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but this forum is but a small fraction of the "Liberty Movement" and some of the posters here are its least active observers and armchair commentators.  (Speaking of which, I think you're overdue to hit that "new posts" button.)

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## PatriotOne

Hey!  What happened to my Free the Gay Pornstar poster?  How will people be able to protest Adam's arrest without it?  Did you delete it SA?  You at least have to admit he looks like a gay pornstar there and proud of it .

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## pcosmar

> Haha I never seen someone with so much hate.


I have.. Foam and spittle spraying,,  Raving like a lunatic.

not a pretty sight.

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## Aratus

if Adam has any illegal slush fund, whether from a PAC or "uncle sam"
gettin' the IRS to NOT look into the quasi~legal monies has to be carefully
done.  if the national park service has a cesna fleet domestically akin to
cia's jets and cargo planes that are overseas, poor adam may be darn close
to mount McKinley in Alaska as we speak. I am serious about denali...

----------


## PatriotOne

> Dude, that's actually his own bicep and forearm.  It's not porn.  (Sorry to disappoint you.)


No $#@! Sherlock.  But it looks soooooooooooooooooo gay.

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## PatriotOne

> I have.. Foam and spittle spraying,,  Raving like a lunatic.
> 
> not a pretty sight.


Actually I'm amused.  Gotta admit it's kind of funny sometimes to see how some people are so easily fooled by cointel pro.  Usually it worries me, today I am amused by it.

----------


## Barrex

> Hey!  What happened to my Free the Gay Pornstar poster?  How will people be able to protest Adam's arrest without it?  Did you delete it SA?  You at least have to admit he looks like a gay pornstar there and proud of it .


So it would be ok to post your picture, or picture of your daugther, with words WHORE OF BABYLON?

Do unto others....

----------


## sailingaway

> In case it is lost on anyone,, weed is becoming mainstream. Voters are voting to legalize it all across the country.
> 
> "Reefer Madness" is now largely recognized as a dumb joke.
> it does not have the negative connotations it once did. Except for the truly authoritarian fascists. (methinks they are the minority)


that isn't the point.  There will be a lot more ACTIVE support for Adam if it is seen as forstalling the march. I would suggest it be put in those terms in comments and discussions.

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## sailingaway

> So it would be ok to post your picture, or picture of your daugther, with words WHORE OF BABYLON?
> 
> Do unto others....


Yeah.  I'm trying to come up with a better reason to explain banning her than 'she offended my sense of basic decency to someone arrested in a fight for liberty.'.  I'll let you know if I come up with one.

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## sailingaway

> if Adam has any illegal slush fund, whether from a PAC or "uncle sam"
> gettin' the IRS to NOT look into the quasi~legal monies has to be carefully
> done.  if the national park service has a cesna fleet domestically akin to
> cia's jets and cargo planes that are overseas, poor adam may be darn close
> to mount McKinley in Alaska as we speak. I am serious about denali...


I think the man has little money, and lives on what he makes.

----------


## Aratus

I  really doubt that Adam is on a gov't payroll...

he's NOT  1960s mockingbird era, he's just an

angry war vet.  I can remember seeing the  poor

vets who went to 'nam begging for  a few dimes

and quarters on the streets of boston in the 80s.

----------


## pcosmar

> Yeah.  I'm trying to come up with a better reason to explain banning her than 'she offended my sense of basic decency to someone arrested in a fight for liberty.'.  I'll let you know if I come up with one.


Insulting forum members.
And I did not flag it, but do find it offensive. I am neither Gay nor phobic. and have no idea of Adams inclination.
I have lived in Prison though,, and find the reference offensive.

----------


## Aratus

if I say I gave those poor guys some of my pocket change
when I was very unemployed and daily taking the subway
to the Copley Square public library, then you know why I
hope Adam has a better life than those poor vets the system
forgot after the wars end in 1975.  I tried to be charitable...

----------


## wizardwatson

> ETA:  I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but this forum is but a small fraction of the "Liberty Movement" and some of the posters here are its least active observers and armchair commentators.  (Speaking of which, I think you're overdue to hit that "new posts" button.)


I think it's a good sample of the overall movement.  And you only confirm my basic position by saying "active observer" and "armchair commentator" which is that the vast majority of participants are engaging in a spectator sport.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I think it's a good sample of the overall movement.  And you only confirm my basic position by saying "active observer" and "armchair commentator" which is that the vast majority of participants are engaging in a spectator sport.


Are you going to DC?

----------


## MelissaCato

WTF is the latest ? I keep getting bounced around on the phones !! 

Gezzzuz I'm not going to be able to sleep !!!

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

I have no problem with her being allowed to post here. If she comes up with any evidence to support her accusations against Kokesh, I'd like to see it. In the meantime, her tantrum seems inconsequential.

----------


## Aratus

maybe I might be in D.C in 2015 if I win a senate seat in up here in 2014

----------


## Aratus

> Are you going to DC?


hopefully by November of 2014... if I win a senate race up here...
I will be living some of the year NEAR d.c if I don't use Amtrak...

----------


## sailingaway

> I have no problem with her being allowed to post here. If she comes up with any evidence to support her accusations against Kokesh, I'd like to see it. In the meantime, her tantrum seems inconsequential.


you expect gay porn star evidence? Because I think she made it up as the worst thing in her view she could think of to say.

----------


## silverhandorder

Forums is a spectator sport. Anyone that is not a spectator is out there doing something. And doing something does not mean politically.

----------


## Aratus

j. edgar hoover was homosexual

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> you expect gay porn star evidence? Because I think she made it up as the worst thing in her view she could think of to say.


Shows her immaturity.

If I ever took a post of hers seriously before, I don't now.

----------


## Aratus

Julius Caesar promiscuously slept with more men and women than Augustus Caesar did. 
he may even have been Augustus Caesar's biological father. Poor Adam is 100% straight.

----------


## fr33

> No $#@! Sherlock.  But it looks soooooooooooooooooo gay.


homophobe: check

police state supporter: check

----------


## Aratus

Julius Caesar also indulged himself in orgies better than did Augustus Caesar.
read either PLUTARCH or SUETONIUS.  lil Gus was a Roman prude and killjoy.

----------


## wizardwatson

> Are you going to DC?


No because I think the strategy is horrible.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> No because I think the strategy is horrible.


Oh.

From your tone I assumed you were.

----------


## wizardwatson

> Oh.
> 
> From your tone I assumed you were.


It's ok.

----------


## Aratus

I might be coaxed into going to either Baltimore or Richmond that day, but no further

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> He was asking for it.  Why would I feel sorry for him?  He knew he was going to be arrested.  Now we are all suppose to get up in arms about it?  That's dumb.


What's wrong with exercising your human rights?

----------


## LibertyEagle

The picture came from Adam's own Facebook.  If he didn't want it seen, he wouldn't have posted it.  So, if any of you have a problem with it, go tell Adam.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> you expect gay porn star evidence? Because I think she made it up as the worst thing in her view she could think of to say.


I don't expect her to come up with evidence, but I believe "the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas — that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market". Just my personal opinion, but I've never moderated an internet forum.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> I think it's a good sample of the overall movement.  And you only confirm my basic position by saying "active observer" and "armchair commentator" which is that the vast majority of participants are engaging in a spectator sport.


Right, and my point was that a lot of folks who are kind of on the fence about whether to get involved in that march, might be driven off the fence and into action if they're pissed off about Adam getting arrested just for peaceably assembling in public.  (Maybe Obi Wan and Vader was a little overblown in importance, but it was the first analogy that sprung to mind.)

----------


## PSYOP

I still think he's controlled OP

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Of course he was.  He had JUST walked off stage. He was up on stage next to the speaker inciting the dumbasses to light up joints illegally seconds before he was arrested.  He made a target of himself.  Can't believe people are shocked about Kokesh being arrested....lol.


I can't believe you're apologizing for tyranny.

----------


## silverhandorder

> The picture came from Adam's own Facebook.  If he didn't want it seen, he wouldn't have posted it.  So, if any of you have a problem with it, go tell Adam.


I just have a problem with a hater attacking someone. You going to tell me he/she is not personally attacking Adam? I would ban him if it was my forum. But in reality just laughing at him and ignoring him works just as good. And this is what I will do to haters like that.

----------


## Peace&Freedom

The march is a high risk strategy, for sure, as it can be exploited by provocateurs, so that means people should decide for themselves whether they will personally take that risk. But that doesn't mean it must be a cointelpro operation, just that it could be exploited by them. 

Patriotone has demonstrated a willingness to sling around the term without ever defining a context or circumstance where it could be concretely proven, or disproven. Is there ANY point of evidence that the accuser would accept, that would FALSIFY their claim that Kokesh is cointelpro? If not, the claim is merely a belief system, not a reason-based position.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> No $#@! Sherlock.  But it looks soooooooooooooooooo gay.


LOL  If you were ever to visit So Cal you'd probably think 3/4 of the guys in any given beach town walking down the street were gay.  Nobody wears shirts, people have flower patterns on their board shorts, some guys wear pink shirts, lots of us with long hair, guys wear the same kind of flip flops all the chicks wear, and some bros give each other hugs when they haven't seen each other in a while, and nobody here gives a rat's ass about any of it.

Sure the picture looks like a guy who maybe loves his own muscles a little too much, but so what?

----------


## sailingaway

> The picture came from Adam's own Facebook.  If he didn't want it seen, he wouldn't have posted it.  So, if any of you have a problem with it, go tell Adam.


It didn't come from his own facebook with the words 'gay porn star' on it.

----------


## Aratus

sailingaway is very correct

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

It's not normal for a person's arm to come out of his head, but that's not what the 2nd Amendment is all about.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> you expect gay porn star evidence? Because I think she made it up as the worst thing in her view she could think of to say.


Hhmmm....  if there is nothing wrong with being gay, why on earth would it be a horrible thing to imply that he was a gay porn star?

----------


## Aratus

admittedly many of my puritan ancestors would have banned the photo anyway until told it was a male bicep

----------


## LibertyEagle

> It didn't come from his own facebook with the words 'gay porn star' on it.


True, but what is wrong with being gay?

----------


## sailingaway

> Hhmmm....  if there is nothing wrong with being gay, why on earth would it be a horrible thing to imply that he was a gay porn star?



There is nothing wrong with being gay, if you ARE gay.  But taking a picture and labeling it 'gay porn star' when the person is neither gay nor in porn at all, is wrong.

----------


## Aratus

adam kokesh once ran for public office in new mexico
and he had some campaign literature made at that
time. sailingaway knows he might run again perhaps.
she is trying to keep the donkeysnark at bay here.

----------


## sailingaway

> True, but what is wrong with being gay?


Now you are acting like that guy who used to be on here pretending he wasn't mocking religion when he professed the flying spaghetti monster was his deity and that he wasn't either mocking people who were religious. Disingenousness is not persuasive.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> There is nothing wrong with being gay, if you ARE gay.  But taking a picture and labeling it 'gay porn star' when the person is neither gay nor in porn at all, is wrong.


I'd hire that crack attorney, Richard Gilbert, to sue her.

----------


## sailingaway

> adam kokesh once ran for public office in new mexico
> and he had some campaign literature made at that
> time. sailingaway knows he might run again perhaps.
> she is trying to keep the donkeysnark at bay here.


Clearly the intent of the person who chose that phrase was to make fun of him and smear him.  That is bad both for those groups she was demonizing in making them the 'bad thing' and in making fun of and calling ridicule on someone just arrested pushing liberty. I think it is disgusting.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> True, but what is wrong with being gay?


I'm starting to form a theory that ANY thread allowed to go on long enough will eventually turn into a gay thread, which proves that if the pandemic of homosexuality is allowed to go on unchecked, eventually the entire population of the earth will become gay and when some clumsy lab assistant knocks over the last table of test tubes and breaks them all, there will be no more reproduction and the entire human race will cease to exist.  

The end.



(And that was all sarcasm, I should add.  Except the part before the first comma.)

----------


## Aratus

besides... john kerry was once a very angry veteran after being on a riverboat in Vietnam and now he's our wise  secretary of state.
adam kokesh could end up as a future secretary of defense if we get one of us here potus elected. time will tell. we all are about
to get the GOP nomination for rand paul before tagg romney comes of age and fulfills the white horse prophesy joseph smith made.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Now you are acting like that guy who used to be on here pretending he wasn't mocking religion when he professed the flying spaghetti monster was his deity and that he wasn't either mocking people who were religious. Disingenousness is not persuasive.


Is that kinda like when you claim to not hate Rand Paul but hum a tune when people twist his words and flat out lie about him in his own forum?

----------


## LibertyEagle

It's you guys who have kept this going and turned it into a gay thread.  lol

----------


## sailingaway

> Is that kinda like when you claim to not hate Rand Paul but hum a tune when people twist his words and flat out lie about him in his own forum?


you are throwing out one unrelated thing after another, I take it you aren't doing well with the actual topic of discussion.

If people don't report stuff in his forum I usually won't know about it.  I don't hate him, but I don't really follow him closely, either.

----------


## Aratus

> Clearly the intent of the person who chose that phrase was to make fun of him and smear him. 
>  That is bad both for those groups she was demonizing in making them the 'bad thing' and in 
> making fun of and calling ridicule on someone just arrested pushing liberty. I think it is disgusting.


I am agreeing with you... it was over the top and uncalled for. it makes it easier for a Democrat or neocon to defeat him.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I am agreeing with you... it was over the top and uncalled for. it makes it easier for a Democrat or neocon to defeat him.


Defeat him, how?  Adam doesn't need anyone to "defeat him".  He is doing a banner job all by himself.

----------


## Aratus

i'd censor poor adam's bicep for the same reasons i'd censor many of the corndog photos from the iowa state fair I saw here.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> you are throwing out one unrelated thing after another, I take it you aren't doing well with the actual topic of discussion.


I was showing your hypocrisy, SailingAway.  And as far as this discussion is going, if you look back through the posts to remind yourself, you will see that it is you who has been doing a banner job keeping the gay meme going.




> If people don't report stuff in his forum I usually won't know about it.  I don't hate him, but I don't really follow him closely, either.


Plenty of things have been flagged, but you just sit there twirling your thumbs.

----------


## wizardwatson

> Right, and my point was that a lot of folks who are kind of on the fence about whether to get involved in that march, might be driven off the fence and into action if they're pissed off about Adam getting arrested just for peaceably assembling in public.  (Maybe Obi Wan and Vader was a little overblown in importance, but it was the first analogy that sprung to mind.)


I just don't like how this is being couched as civil disobedience when it's mostly popular because it's intimidation based.  "Oh, we're just exercising our 2nd amendment rights."  BS.  It's not about this being the best way to solve 2nd amendment issues.  It's about "let's see what they do".

So yes, I see your point in the sense that Kokesh is more of a martyr now that he's been arrested.  

The difference I see is that instead of protesting peacefully and letting the police beat the crap out of them they are intentionally creating an explosive situation.  It's cold war tactics it's not civil disobedience.

----------


## green73

Me thinks Liberty Crow has had a bit too much sherry.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> i'd censor poor adam's bicep for the same reasons i'd censor many of the corndog photos from the iowa state fair I saw here.


I agree.  But, Adam also should be a bit wiser in what he posts on his own Facebook page too.

----------


## sailingaway

there is no 'gay meme', the topic was intentional smearing of someone being arrested, location unknown, fighting for liberty, whether in the precise way others would do so or not.

And regarding the other, I've responded to that and your view really doesn't concern me.

----------


## PatriotOne

> It didn't come from his own facebook with the words 'gay porn star' on it.


It didn't have to.  It had gay porn star written all over it.   I don't know if Adam is gay or not.  Don't really care.  No prob with gays here.  Gay porn is disgusting as is all porn though.  But ya all can't deny he sure took and posted a gay picture of himself .  Compare a typical gay porn advertising picture.....cropped just for ya all...to Adam's pic.



and Adam's pic....

----------


## LibertyEagle

> there is no 'gay meme', the topic was intentional smearing of someone being arrested, location unknown, fighting for liberty, whether in the precise way others would do so or not.
> 
> And regarding the other, I've responded to that and your view really doesn't concern me.


I don't view what Adam did as "fighting for liberty" at all, anymore than I view people "fighting for liberty" by posting on an internet forum..

----------


## Aratus

> Me thinks Liberty Crow has had a bit too much sherry.


duckie... don't attack Liberty Eagle.  she'd agree with me that there is an absolutely smutty photograph 
of rick perry eating a corndog at the height of his presidential ambitions that young 11 and 12 year olds 
should not see on a public forum.  the animation done with ms. bachmann's photo was a new low even 
for these forums even though rick perry was one of the biggest thieves and honcho crony lovers in texas 
history where his damage to the public treasury may have been greater than jack connolly & LBJ combined. 
he was acting dignified in many of the public GOP debates even though he often did sound like a total dip$#@!.

----------


## asurfaholic

lol wut has this world come to

----------


## silverhandorder

> I don't view what Adam did as "fighting for liberty" at all, anymore than I view people "fighting for liberty" by posting on an internet forum..


Yeah because dropping 100 million on Paul family is the ONLY way to "fight for liberty"?

----------


## Aratus

PatriotOne... Adam's bicep is more patriotic than yours, mine or the male model's in that cropped photo

----------


## WhistlinDave

> I just don't like how this is being couched as civil disobedience when it's mostly popular because it's intimidation based.  "Oh, we're just exercising our 2nd amendment rights."  BS.  It's not about this being the best way to solve 2nd amendment issues.  It's about "let's see what they do".
> 
> So yes, I see your point in the sense that Kokesh is more of a martyr now that he's been arrested.  
> 
> The difference I see is that instead of protesting peacefully and letting the police beat the crap out of them they are intentionally creating an explosive situation.  It's cold war tactics it's not civil disobedience.


Well, it may be a potentially "explosive" situation and it may be deliberately stirring things up to see what happens, but I do think it fits the definition of civil disobedience pretty nicely.

The Second Amendment says our right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed."  Yet there's a subordinate law that says "you cannot bear arms around here."  Kokesh is saying, "I'm not going to obey that law because it's unjust.  We're going to bear arms there whether you like it or not."  And it may not solve anything instantly, but that's not the goal.  The goal is to make a statement, and to hopefully draw attention to the issue, and possibly to expose government tyranny depending on how things go.  I support the idea and the effort.  Wish I could go myself, although I honestly don't know if I would have the balls to even if I could.  (Have a family to support.)  So I applaud those who do.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Yeah because dropping 100 million on Paul family is the ONLY way to "fight for liberty"?


No, it just requires doing something CONSTRUCTIVE.

----------


## JK/SEA

Patriotone acts like Adam must have rejected her...hence the 'attitude',,,hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

----------


## angelatc

> Patriotone acts like Adam must have rejected her...hence the 'attitude',,,hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.


*** hag.

----------


## fr33

https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMA...51402433011260




> Adam is locked up in a federal jail... he will go infront of a judge monday... he is being charged with resisting arrest... that us all I know - Lucas

----------


## sailingaway

repeat: no attacking forum members.

----------


## asurfaholic

> Well, it may be a potentially "explosive" situation and it may be deliberately stirring things up to see what happens, but I do think it fits the definition of civil disobedience pretty nicely.
> 
> The Second Amendment says our right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed."  Yet there's a subordinate law that says "you cannot bear arms around here."  Kokesh is saying, "I'm not going to obey that law because it's unjust.  We're going to bear arms there whether you like it or not."  And it may not solve anything instantly, but that's not the goal.  The goal is to make a statement, and to hopefully draw attention to the issue, and possibly to expose government tyranny depending on how things go.  I support the idea and the effort.  Wish I could go myself, although I honestly don't know if I would have the balls to even if I could.  (Have a family to support.)  So I applaud those who do.


Must spread rep :/

I like how people say that Adam Kokesh's method of bringing attention to a major encroachment on our basic rights is flamed, but nobody can offer any better proactive ways of restoring those rights, or anything. Its actually entertaining... 

It takes big balls to stand up in the face of tyranny.

----------


## sailingaway

> https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMA...51402433011260


I didn't notice any resisting.  Was there resisting in any video anyone else saw? He has been arrested before and never resisted. Why would he this time?

----------


## fr33

> I didn't notice any resisting.  Was there resisting in any video anyone else saw? He has been arrested before and never resisted. Why would he this time?


It's just what pigs do. Videos are often posted of the pigs beating someone while saying "stop resisting".

----------


## WhistlinDave

> I didn't notice any resisting.  Was there resisting in any video anyone else saw? He has been arrested before and never resisted. Why would he this time?


He kept speaking into his microphone and resisted the cop's attempt to pry it from him, for a couple seconds.  (Translation:  Bull$#@! charges.)

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

It's just open-carry. If people perceive something wrong with that, there's something wrong with their perception.

----------


## sailingaway

I don't like calling police pigs. I saw a video recently of police beating a guy, apparently to death, and saying stop resisting. Pigs was not the term that came to mind.

----------


## sailingaway

> He kept speaking into his microphone and resisted the cop's attempt to pry it from him, for a couple seconds.  (Translation:  Bull$#@! charges.)


that's resisting losing a microphone, not being arrested.

----------


## asurfaholic

> It's just what pigs do. Videos are often posted of the pigs beating someone while saying "stop resisting".


Exactly. 

But the better question is, if that is his only charge, then why was he being ARRESTED to BEGIN WITH?

And why in Fed lockup?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMA...51402433011260


Surprising. 

Probably an obstruction or disorderly in there as well.

I'll wait to see what his bond is set at. He should be able to get out relatively cheaply. A stipulation of his bond will probably restrict him from leaving the state.

----------


## Christian Liberty

Kokesh is a brave man.  Good for him.  I wish I had the guts.

Adam helps us to remember who the REAL criminals are, and it is NEVER the Libertarian.

----------


## silverhandorder

> No, it just requires doing something PRODUCTIVE.


Well how has your life changed by what liberty movement did politically(productively)? Did we lower taxes? Did we stop civil liberty infringements? Did we stop wars? 

I did more for my self then liberty movement will do for me in 100 years. 

IF all of us did that we wouldn't need a liberty movement.

----------


## Aratus

if its a park service decision after an oval office call, I was only half joking about a covert flight to denali, which is a very big public park

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> that's resisting losing a microphone, not being arrested.


You're new around here aren't you?

Lol, seriously though, resisting is another one of those snare all fishnets they can throw on anyone at anytime. As a pig recently said, "I don't have to explain myself to you. Argue it in court."

----------


## RickyJ

> I don't like calling police pigs. I saw a video recently of police beating a guy, apparently to death, and saying stop resisting. Pigs was not the term that came to mind.


Right, the term "pigs" is an insult to pigs when referring to the cops who beat that man to death.

----------


## sailingaway

> Right, the term "pigs" is an insult to pigs when referring to the cops who beat that man to death.


What I actually meant was there are good police and I don't like it as a catchall for an entire group of people.  We aren't collectivist with other groups, why that one?

But in specific cases it isn't remotely descriptive of the true horror of police actions.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> https://www.facebook.com/ADAMVSTHEMA...51402433011260
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Adam is locked up in a federal jail... he will go infront of a judge monday... he is being charged with resisting arrest... that us all I know - Lucas


Resisting arrest... for what?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> They were committing an illegal act by smoking weed (whether you agree with the law or not doesn't matter).  I don't know if Kokesh was smoking at the time but he seemed to be one who was leading the activities since he had the microphone.
> 
> So yeah.  Wouldn't you expect to get arrested if you lit up a joint in front of the police where it is illegal?  I would.  Unless Kokesh is retarded, he expected it also.


It's called civil disobedience.  MLK practiced it.  Ron Paul endorses it.  "Asking for it" is something else.

----------


## CPUd

> Exactly. 
> 
> But the better question is, if that is his only charge, then why was he being ARRESTED to BEGIN WITH?
> 
> And why in Fed lockup?


If they were on a national park, it would be a federal charge.  I know a kid who got pulled over driving around smoking weed.  He was pulled over by park rangers and didn't realize the road he was on went through a national park.  It was the first time I ever heard of someone going to federal court for a DUI.

----------


## Aratus

this is like getting a "statie" totally POed rather than a small town cop

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Of course he was.  He had JUST walked off stage. He was up on stage next to the speaker inciting the dumbasses to light up joints illegally seconds before he was arrested.  He made a target of himself.  Can't believe people are shocked about Kokesh being arrested....lol.


Who's shocked?  I don't think he should have been arrested, but it certainly doesn't surprise me.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> If they were on a national park, it would be a federal charge.  I know a kid who got pulled over driving around smoking weed.  He was pulled over by park rangers and didn't realize the road he was on went through a national park.  It was the first time I ever heard of someone going to federal court for a DUI.


I only realized that the park rangers had any type of authority to pull you over about a year ago. Well, any authority _at all,_ except to issue you a ticket for fishing without a license or for drinking in a state park.

That still amazes me.

----------


## Tod

I don't think he was smoking or possessed weed.  He had the mic and was seen as a leader.  Last I heard, he was arrested for resisting arrest.  How do you like that circular thought?

I'm sure they would like to keep him out of circulation until after the armed march in the hopes that it will peter out without a leader.

I guess he is scheduled to appear before a judge on Monday, from what I've been seeing on FB.

----------


## Aratus

tacitly... if park rangers are federal and there is nobody else for miles this is like the power a state trooper has

----------


## JK/SEA

4,393 going to the march, as of today.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> this all has alex jones marching by his lonesome as he is surrounded by the other marchers


....wh-what?

----------


## Aratus

he was going to march with adam kokesh

----------


## Aratus

it looks like almost 5000 people will be marching, also

----------


## asurfaholic

> If they were on a national park, it would be a federal charge.  I know a kid who got pulled over driving around smoking weed.  He was pulled over by park rangers and didn't realize the road he was on went through a national park.  It was the first time I ever heard of someone going to federal court for a DUI.


He didn't get pulled over for weed. Or littering. Or whatever. 

He got arrested (for what?) but they only charged him with resisting arrest.

I might be missing some key info here though.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No because I think the strategy is horrible.


Of course you do.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> He didn't get pulled over for weed. Or littering. Or whatever. 
> 
> He got arrested (for what?) but they only charged him with resisting arrest.
> 
> I might be missing some key info here though.


Yea, it seems "resisting arrest" is a convenient fail-safe so they can charge anybody with _something,_ whenever they arrest someone for no good reason.

----------


## CPUd

> He didn't get pulled over for weed. Or littering. Or whatever. 
> 
> He got arrested (for what?) but they only charged him with resisting arrest.
> 
> I might be missing some key info here though.


In Adam's case, I think it has to do with where he was.  In the picture, he is pointing at 36 CFR 2.35 (B) (2) : http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/2.35

That is a park service regulation, which means he was probably in an area designated as a national park.  Regardless of whatever he did, or whatever they say he did, it is likely under federal park service jurisdiction, which is why he is in federal lockup.

----------


## Barrex

> I didn't notice any resisting.  Was there resisting in any video anyone else saw? He has been arrested before and never resisted. Why would he this time?





> that's resisting losing a microphone, not being arrested.


Depends from state from state. Some define it resisting, obstructing, delaying...


Some might argue that he was at least delaying.


Your system is little "$#@!ed up". To resist arrest there needs to be ground for arrest. So far they didnt give one. So resisting arrest on its own is really silly if there was no reason to arrest him in the first place. 



> Yea, it seems "resisting arrest" is a convenient fail-safe so they can charge anybody with _something,_ whenever they arrest someone for no good reason.


Yea but in unlawful arrest makes resisting arrest charges fail by default(*at least that is what laws say).


Police waited till he took microphone and then moved to arrest him. It will be interesting. With so many laws it is nearly impossible to be 100% sure that you are not breaking any law. (speaking in national park without xy; stqanging/destroying grass... I dont know)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> True, but what is wrong with being gay?


Why are we even having this discussion?  Some guy thinks it's funny to call a muscle poseur a "gay porn star" and the political correctness police come out of the woodwork.  Some people don't think homosexuality is morally right, so what?  It's old hat by now.  We all have different moral standards, so can we just agree to disagree, or are the political correctness police going to arrest everyone who makes a funny face at the idea of having gay relations?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's you guys who have kept this going and turned it into a gay thread.  lol


Not from my point of view.  You're the one asking leading questions about how acceptable the gay lifestyle is.  I hadn't seen the thread going in THAT direction until you started doing that.  No offense, but that's the way I see it.

----------


## fr33

In other Philadelphia news; Former Hero Officer Charged With Raping Women, Held on $60M Bail

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> In other Philadelphia news; Former Hero Officer Charged With Raping Women, Held on $60M Bail


Mind if I make a thread on it?

I don't want to derail this.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I didn't notice any resisting.  Was there resisting in any video anyone else saw? He has been arrested before and never resisted. Why would he this time?


He "tensed up."  They call that resisting.

----------


## sailingaway

> He "tensed up."  They call that resisting.


oh for......

a brief and natural human instinct is resisting?

Regardless, they need probable cause to arrest.

Of what, exactly?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't like calling police pigs. I saw a video recently of police beating a guy, apparently to death, and saying stop resisting. Pigs was not the term that came to mind.


What did come to mind?  Is pigs not sufficiently offensive for describing those bastards?

----------


## sailingaway

> What did come to mind?  Is pigs not sufficiently offensive for describing those bastards?


do pigs beat others to death? I guess I'm not up on my farm animals.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What I actually meant was there are good police and I don't like it as a catchall for an entire group of people.  We aren't collectivist with other groups, why that one?
> 
> But in specific cases it isn't remotely descriptive of the true horror of police actions.


Best not open that can of worms.  But suffice it to say I strongly disagree.  Collectivizing the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't be a bad thing.

----------


## fr33

> do pigs beat others to death? I guess I'm not up on my farm animals.


Pigs will eat their own especially if one gets crippled.

----------


## sailingaway

> Best not open that can of worms.  But suffice it to say I strongly disagree.  Collectivizing the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't be a bad thing.


but then you are condemning a decision they actively took, to join an idealogical group with an ideology you condemn. Being a police officer imho is only bad if you ABUSE the power the office gives you, so collectivizing those who don't with those who do is different.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> He spoke up.


He was a nail in a sea of government hammers.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ... I ... finally got through to a different officer who told me "I can't give you any information, that's his private business, and if you want to know you need to speak with him after we release him. ....


When the government seizes a person, the burden lies on it to immediately justify the seizure. Without a showing of probable cause, the seizure is presumably unconstitutional.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> oh for......
> 
> a brief and natural human instinct is resisting?
> 
> Regardless, they need probable cause to arrest.
> 
> Of what, exactly?


There are lots of videos where they tell people to "stop tensing up!"  They expect you to cooperate no matter how difficult...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> do pigs beat others to death? I guess I'm not up on my farm animals.


I don't see how that's relevant....

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> but then you are condemning a decision they actively took, to join an idealogical group with an ideology you condemn.


Uh huh... I'm listening... 




> Being a police officer imho is only bad if you ABUSE the power the office gives you, so collectivizing those who don't with those who do is different.


Every police officer abuses the power the office gives them.  It's impossible not to and keep your job.  It's the fact that they took an office that gives them such power that justifies collectivizing them.  They collectivize themselves by joining that "ideological group with an ideology I condemn."  You wouldn't be here if you didn't condemn that ideology as well.

----------


## TER

I hope he gets out soon. I think he is being majorly harassed by the Feds right now.  I hope he prays to God for guidance and direction.

----------


## sailingaway

> Uh huh... I'm listening... 
> 
> 
> 
> Every police officer abuses the power the office gives them.  It's impossible not to and keep your job.  It's the fact that they took an office that gives them such power that justifies collectivizing them.  They collectivize themselves by joining that "ideological group with an ideology I condemn."  You wouldn't be here if you didn't condemn that ideology as well.


I'm a minarchist not an anarchist. I think government has moral functions and protecting those less able to defend themselves and their property from infringement is probably number one on my list of appropriate government action.  So long as that is the mindset of those who become police, I support them.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I hope he gets out soon. I think he is being majorly harassed by the Feds right now.  I hope he prays to God for guidance and direction.


Amen! is the last thing I'm going to say in this thread, because if said what I'm really thinking, I'd be sharing a cell with brother Adam.

It would also be decidedly Un-Christian of me.

Stay strong.

----------


## ninepointfive

this forum is in some dire straights.

----------


## Professor8000

One can not be charged with Resisting Arrest alone, and one can not be arrested for no reason. You have a right to resist an unlawful arrest, and the last time I checked, you had a right to peaceably assemble. It appears that a judge will likely throw the charges out, but then again, there are always the ones who like to make examples of people.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm a minarchist not an anarchist. I think government has moral functions and protecting those less able to defend themselves and their property from infringement is probably number one on my list of appropriate government action.  So long as that is the mindset of those who become police, I support them.


You don't have to be an anarchist in order to oppose the existence of an oppressive police force.  My point is that you can't join the police force expecting only to do what you just described.  They all enforce unjust laws, so it's not necessarily inaccurate to collectivize them as immoral when you and I will agree that what they do is immoral.

----------


## fr33



----------


## damiengwa

[/QUOTE]

This pic of Adam gave me a chubby...does that make me gay?  Do I need to pray?

----------


## RickyJ

> this forum is in some dire straights.


How so? I got nothing wrong with people being critical either way. If everyone had the exact same opinions then this site would be an echo chamber and not a place where you could educate others and/or learn new things.

----------


## RickyJ

> This pic of Adam gave me a chubby...does that make me gay?  Do I need to pray?


Very gay, unless you are a female.

----------


## asurfaholic

> In Adam's case, I think it has to do with where he was.  In the picture, he is pointing at 36 CFR 2.35 (B) (2) : http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/2.35
> 
> That is a park service regulation, which means he was probably in an area designated as a national park.  Regardless of whatever he did, or whatever they say he did, it is likely under federal park service jurisdiction, which is why he is in federal lockup.


Aha.. thanks for clarifying.

I still don't know if he is actually the one in violation of that law though. But lord knows there's at least 4 more in there that he was in violation of, there are so many stupid laws.

----------


## sailingaway

> You don't have to be an anarchist in order to oppose the existence of an oppressive police force.  My point is that you can't join the police force expecting only to do what you just described.  They all enforce unjust laws, so it's not necessarily inaccurate to collectivize them as immoral when you and I will agree that what they do is immoral.


Well, I don't agree with that because there is still the need for police and those who join to serve a good purpose and do NOT abuse the office I don't tar with the same brush.

But we can disagree.

----------


## Aratus

if it is the park service... he could be sent up to denali via cesna
rather than to gitmo by any of the hidden fleet of cia prison planes...

----------


## sailingaway

Well, to be honest, I thought Adam's coming protest on DC wasn't perfectly crafted, but I support the general idea of fighting for liberty, and this was just tweeted tonight and seems to fit this thread.

----------


## damiengwa

We all know WHY he was arrested.  Will be interesting to see the charge.  I really hope he ddin't have any MJ on him.  Then they look like total buffoons.  Arresting him literally as he spoke to a crowd on a microphone at a rally.  And then what, they've only hit him with resisting?  AAHahah!  Charge with resisting arrest, but arrested for nothing.

----------


## damiengwa

Hail Mary, full of Grace
The Lord is with Thee,
Blessed art thou, among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for our sinners,
Now, and at the hour of my death.

Amen

----------


## damiengwa

> ...rather than to gitmo by any of the hidden fleet of cia prison planes...


I'm sure thats a disappointment for him.  I'm sure he'd like to partake in some of the drugs on board those CIA planes!  May we all be so lucky as to get shipped by CIA plane when they come to take us to Gitmo.

----------


## RickyJ

> Hail Mary, full of Grace
> The Lord is with Thee,
> Blessed art thou, among women,
> And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus
> Holy Mary, Mother of God,
> Pray for our sinners,
> Now, and at the hour of my death.
> 
> Amen


You can pray directly to God, you don't have to go through Mary.

----------


## sailingaway

> I'm sure thats a disappointment for him.  I'm sure he'd like to partake in some of the drugs on board those CIA planes!  May we all be so lucky as to get shipped by CIA plane when they come to take us to Gitmo.

----------


## sailingaway

from twitter:

*HiramHawk ‏@HiramHawk 54m
Adam Kokesh transferred to the Fed Detention Ctr - Phone is 215-686-3007 http://bit.ly/15XCRnD  #policestate #tyranny #news #nra #anonymous*

https://twitter.com/HiramHawk/status/335953471687761921

----------


## WhistlinDave

> When the government seizes a person, the burden lies on it to immediately justify the seizure. Without a showing of probable cause, the seizure is presumably unconstitutional.


That's exactly why I introduced myself as a writer who reports on abuses against Constitutional rights...  But they acted as if they wouldn't tell me anything because they were protecting his privacy.  I didn't really care anyway; my goal was to let them know this was going to have consequences beyond their phone ringing off the hook all day, and I hope I accomplished that.  

Regarding probable cause, they can very easily say it was a pro legalization rally where most of the people were openly smoking pot, and so they had probable cause to believe that anyone acting as a "leader" of such an event was probably in possession of pot too.  (Even if they didn't see him smoking it.)  Then when they find none on him, all they can do is say he "resisted arrest."  All of it's a bunch of BS of course, but none of it surprises me.

----------


## JK/SEA

> 



MK Ultra?

----------


## Anti Federalist

Best Ron quote ever.




> Well, to be honest, I thought Adam's coming protest on DC wasn't perfectly crafted, but I support the general idea of fighting for liberty, and this was just tweeted tonight and seems to fit this thread.

----------


## Aratus

someone wants to keep him  inside the system for a VERY long time. we all may need to whump up a moneybomb to keep a public focus on him,
even if we all just donate five to ten bucks every few weeks or so... i'm afraid for him. this was highly arbitrary and nitpicky in a very stupid way.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> MK Ultra?


Room 101...Christ help us.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You can pray directly to God, you don't have to go through Mary.


At this point, help from any quarter is welcome.

----------


## Anti Federalist

And I violated my own post...D'Oh!

----------


## damiengwa

bump

----------


## Origanalist

> So he got arrested for smoking weed?


Dark sunglasses, foolish grin......could be.

----------


## economics102

They must be really afraid of the DC march, because if their desire was simply to find a way to throw Kokesh in jail for a while, they could've just waited a month and arrested him at the march -- that would be a much more serious charge. He was handing them the opportunity on a silver platter.

----------


## JK/SEA

//

----------


## sailingaway

> MK Ultra?


forced feeding station at Guantanamo. A poster was suggesting that being taken there by CIA plane would be wonderful.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> So he got arrested for smoking weed?





> I imagine they probably witnessed him smoking weed at some point then swooped in right when he was speaking.





> Dark sunglasses, foolish grin......could be.


Nope, apparently not...  Here's one of the first posts on the Facebook page after this happened:




> Adam has been arrested and is in jail in Philly... *I can personally testify that he hadn't even smoked yet...* everyone please phone bomb the philly police and jail phone lines and demand adam be released amd able to make contact with us... other protesters were actually smoking and released after arrest but adam was taken away in a white chevy suburban... phone bomb them now!!! --- Brother Lucas


LOL -- "yet."

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> ...


We go from one person posting gay porn to another... what are the odds?

----------


## RickyJ

> someone wants to keep him  inside the system for a VERY long time. we all may need to whump up a moneybomb to keep a public focus on him,
> even if we all just donate five to ten bucks every few weeks or so... i'm afraid for him. this was highly arbitrary and nitpicky in a very stupid way.


I think he will be alright. If they wanted to do him harm, they wouldn't need to arrest him to do that.

----------


## donnay

> Another angle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they targeted him specifically. A preemptive arrest perhaps.



Notice how the cops run when the angry mob pursues the blockade.

----------


## TER

> You can pray directly to God, you don't have to go through Mary.


RickyJ is right, you do not have to go through Mary to God.  For some people, however, when they acknowledge how great a sinner they are and how far they have strayed from God and unable to look to God without shame and self-pity...  or when they feel hopeless and helpless and in dire situations and occurances...  they look for all the help they can get.  And being that the saints are alive to God, glorified by God, and that they 'will judge the world' as spoken by Christ, it is okay to ask for their assistance and intercessions, knowing that all good things come from God above.  And there is no greater saint than the Virgin Mary.

----------


## RickyJ

> from twitter:
> 
> *HiramHawk ‏@HiramHawk 54m
> Adam Kokesh transferred to the Fed Detention Ctr - Phone is 215-686-3007 http://bit.ly/15XCRnD  #policestate #tyranny #news #nra #anonymous*
> 
> https://twitter.com/HiramHawk/status/335953471687761921


I hope Adam presses charges against these officers for false arrest. Lots of witnesses that he didn't smoke any weed are available as I understand.

----------


## sailingaway

> I hope Adam presses charges against these officers for false arrest. Lots of witnesses that he didn't smoke any weed are available as I understand.


from the video I got the impression the officers were looking for him specifically and recognized him as he took the mic.  One sort of nudged the other and pointed to him and they closed in.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> from twitter:
> 
> *HiramHawk ‏@HiramHawk 54m
> Adam Kokesh transferred to the Fed Detention Ctr - Phone is 215-686-3007 http://bit.ly/15XCRnD  #policestate #tyranny #news #nra #anonymous*
> 
> https://twitter.com/HiramHawk/status/335953471687761921


So is this the latest? Feds have him? This will be interesting to see the charges that they come up with.

----------


## RickyJ

> So is this the latest? Feds have him? This will be interesting to see the charges that they come up with.


They waited until he was about to speak, then moved in. One of the cops pointed to some smoke in the crowd then moved in to arrest Adam and the other speaker, but not to arrest the people actually smoking pot. They were looking for any excuse they could get to arrest him, no matter how lame it was. I suspect the charges will be inciting a crowd to break the law and resisting arrest.

----------


## devil21

Why didnt cameraman follow any of the arrested past the fence?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> So is this the latest? Feds have him? This will be interesting to see the charges that they come up with.


Kokesh in federal prison, to face judge on Monday
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/350400


Philadelphia - New details and information regarding a story that broke here on Digital Journal earlier this evening are now beginning to surface.
Earlier today Alex Allen, a digital journalist and the publisher of the "Liberty Sun," broke the story of Adam Kokesh's arrest at a "Smoke Down Prohibition" event in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Kokesh, who has attended and spoken at previous "Smoke Down Prohibition" events, was allegedly arrested without having smoked any marijuana. Footage has since been released, confirming his arrest. Although the audio is very poor in the footage, you can clearly hear Kokesh at one point stating that he was being "assaulted" by the police.
Details have been somewhat hazy about the case all night and plenty of rumors have been surfacing but some of Kokesh's fellow Adam vs the Man workers have now released a statement regarding his pending charges on the official Adam Kokesh Facebook page:
"Adam is locked up in a federal jail... he will go infront of a judge monday... *he is being charged with resisting arrest*... that us all I know - Lucas"
We will continue to follow this closely and report on any new details that emerge in the coming days. 

-t

----------


## economics102

If the only charge is resisting arrest, aside from that being totally ridiculous, it's clear from the video that he BARELY resisted -- he non-violently held back for a few seconds and then put his hands up in an "arrest me" pose.

----------


## speciallyblend

> I hope Adam presses charges against these officers for false arrest. Lots of witnesses that he didn't smoke any weed are available as I understand.


This will turn into good blowback for the liberty movement. The gov thugs aka police state just opened up a HUGE CAN OF LIBERTY DRAGONS forget the term open a can of worms more like opened a CAN OF LIBERTY DRAGONS. This will make the march 10X bigger then it was.

----------


## angelatc

> What I actually meant was there are good police and I don't like it as a catchall for an entire group of people.  We aren't collectivist with other groups, why that one?
> 
> But in specific cases it isn't remotely descriptive of the true horror of police actions.



You know, they're pack animals.  Individually, there probably some decent human beings in there.  But they're just like other packs of animals - at best, they go along to get along.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> You know, they're pack animals.  Individually, there probably some decent human beings in there.  But they're just like other packs of animals - at best, they go along to get along.


Kind of like what Rise Against talks about in this song:

----------


## angelatc

I am not well versed in these "getting arrested" things.  How can "resisting arrest" be the only charge?  It seems that if the arrest was legitimate, that would be an extra charge.   But how can they arrest someone for nothing else than resisting arrest? 

Hoping that makes sense.

----------


## chudrockz

> I am not well versed in these "getting arrested" things.  How can "resisting arrest" be the only charge?  It seems that if the arrest was legitimate, that would be an extra charge.   But how can they arrest someone for nothing else than resisting arrest? 
> 
> Hoping that makes sense.


It makes perfect sense, and you CANNOT be "arrested for resisting arrest."  Also, if an impending arrest is illegitimate, you have every right to resist it.

----------


## economics102

> I am not well versed in these "getting arrested" things.  How can "resisting arrest" be the only charge?  It seems that if the arrest was legitimate, that would be an extra charge.   But how can they arrest someone for nothing else than resisting arrest? 
> 
> Hoping that makes sense.


IANAL but my understanding is that if an officer attempts to arrest you without suspicion of a crime, that is no different than assault and you are permitted to defend yourself. In other words, if you ask the officer "what's the crime?" and he replies "resisting arrest," that would be illegal, as an arrest without probable cause is simply assault -- an officer is not allowed to go around assaulting citizens.

However, an officer can arrest you on any cause under the sun even if it's clearly poor judgment. But yes, I would think "resisting arrest" requires the officer at very least *claim* suspicion of some other crime, even if there is no rational basis for the claim. If an officer wants to arrest you for suspicion of a crime, even if you know there's no rational basis for said suspicion, you are still supposed to comply with the arrest process, and then make your argument to the judge at time of formal charging. It is not the job of the officer to decide whether his "crime radar" is well-calibrated or not. (that's the job of his commanding officer and/or the public-at-large)

----------


## Icymudpuppy

Adam is the Man.  He is not afraid to be the one to get arrested, to galvanize the movement.  He is the grassroots leader we need to organize the people.  I applaud him.

----------


## Lucille

https://twitter.com/adamkokesh
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

----------


## Lucille



----------


## affa

> I'm a minarchist not an anarchist. I think government has moral functions and protecting those less able to defend themselves and their property from infringement is probably number one on my list of appropriate government action.  So long as that is the mindset of those who become police, I support them.


minarchism could not exist with the size, scope, and militarization of the police force we have now.   our police force is symptomatic of tyranny.   if  a minarchism did have a police force, which is debatable, it would be similar in name only.    using minarchism to defend a theoretical police force, and those who enter it, is one thing, but i think using it to defend what our police force has become, and those who enter it currently, are quite far apart.

----------


## Uriel999

Though who make peaceful revolution impossible...a storm is a brewing...

----------


## JK/SEA

4433 going to march as of today...so far. Up approx. 50 from yesterday......so far.

https://www.facebook.com/events/252728144871259/?ref=3

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You know, they're pack animals.  Individually, there probably some decent human beings in there.  But they're just like other packs of animals - at best, they go along to get along.


Hammer, meet Nail, Nail, Hammer.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Good Guy Adam!




>

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ...  they acted as if they wouldn't tell me anything because they were protecting his privacy.


Surely that was a lie, since there's no chance Kokesh wants this kept private in any way. Even in cases where a defendant does want privacy and waives his Sixth Amendment right to public court proceedings, the public still maintains a First Amendment right to information about court proceedings. Richmond Newspapers, Inc. v. Virginia, 448 US 555 - Supreme Court 1980.

----------


## bolil

What if something happens to him in the joint?  I don't know what SOP is regarding Federal lockup, but I imagine he is in general population.

Hmmm, all of those people lighting up and they grabbed Kokesh?

----------


## Roxi

> Pigs will eat their own especially if one gets crippled.


Do you blame them? Have you HAD bacon?

----------


## Roxi

Has anyone actually spoken with Adam since yesterday?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Has anyone actually spoken with Adam since yesterday?


When you get taken to a federal detention center, it can take days or weeks before you're able to use the phone. There is no one-free-phone-call or anything like that. You can never receive incoming calls. Outgoing calls cost money, which you have only if someone send it to you, which can take time to process. Collect calls work sometimes, but it takes the retarded pigs staffing the federal government 24 hours to get you from the front door to a place where there's a phone.

----------


## Roxi

> When you get taken to a federal detention center, it can take days or weeks before you're able to use the phone. There is no one-free-phone-call or anything like that. You can never receive incoming calls. Outgoing calls cost money, which you have only if someone send it to you, which can take time to process. Collect calls work sometimes, but it takes the retarded pigs staffing the federal government 24 hours to get you from the front door to a place where there's a phone.



Thanks for responding. That sucks too. I hope someone hears from him soon.

----------


## brandon

I was arrested for civil disobedience in philly before and taken to the same federal holding center that I assume Kokesh is in. I was processed and released on the same day. Granted my arrest wasn't on a weekend.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> I was arrested for civil disobedience in philly before and taken to the same federal holding center that I assume Kokesh is in. I was processed and released on the same day. Granted my arrest wasn't on a weekend.


I was there for 24 hours, never given access to a phone.

----------


## tmg19103

You absolutely cannot be charged with resisting arrest without having committed an actual crime. I don't even see resisting arrest in the video, but cops make that up all the time. Will be interesting to see what the charge is that prompted the arrest. Probably something crap like disturbing the peace or inciting a riot. 

He was sent to the federal detention center as he was arrested in a federal park.

They won't be able to hold him for too long - like until the DC march. Could be in a few days to a week, but I would expect he gets released on bail Monday unless the feds and the judge pull some stunt.

Would not surprise me if they try and get a condition for bail not to own or possess firearms to keep him out of the DC march, though I don't see that having any legal standing, but then the whole thing is an illegal and false arrest without any legal standing from beginning to end, so who knows.

----------


## vechorik

Kokesh - The definition of incitement - Encouraging or inciting another to do a certain thing, such as a crime. Same as the march with guns and ammo. He'd get arrested for that too, when someone does it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Kokesh - The definition of incitement - Encouraging or inciting another to do a certain thing, such as a crime. Same as the march with guns and ammo. He'd get arrested for that too, when someone does it.


*He* was arrested.

How is that inciting anybody else?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Kokesh - The definition of incitement - Encouraging or inciting another to do a certain thing, such as a crime. Same as the march with guns and ammo. He'd get arrested for that too, when someone does it.


What specific statute prohibits anything Kokesh has done?

----------


## JK/SEA

> Kokesh - The definition of incitement - Encouraging or inciting another to do a certain thing, such as a crime. Same as the march with guns and ammo. He'd get arrested for that too, when someone does it.


I'll put this here.

''It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace — but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!''

Patrick Henry...the 'inciter'

----------


## speciallyblend

> 


Bestest Ever^^^^^

----------


## pcosmar

> Kokesh - The definition of incitement - Encouraging or inciting another to do a certain thing, such as a crime. Same as the march with guns and ammo. He'd get arrested for that too, when someone does it.


There was no riot. Therefore there was no inciting a riot.  
Other speakers were speaking,, I did not hear or see Adam speaking,, perhaps he was about to,, He had spoken at such events in the past.


He was targeted,, not the rest of the crowd nor the several other speakers.

I suspect it was because he is seen as a threat for the 2nd amendment march.
When Americans are considered a threat for simply exercising their rights,, you know we are in serious trouble.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> When Americans are considered a threat for simply exercising their rights,, you know we are in serious trouble.


Damn it, you're ruining it for the rest of us.

Will you *please* pipe down and just write some polite letters of disapproval?!

----------


## ninepointfive

damn - really should have started a thread about my suspicions as to kokesh getting arrested before the march event and held past july 4th. but he'll be out on bail most likely.

----------


## pcosmar

Edit to my earlier post,, I could not Hear Adam, but He* was* speaking.
This is the 5th such event he has attended.
A better Video and Report.
http://www.thedailychronic.net/2013/...demonstration/



> At least six people, possibly as many as ten, were arrested in the minutes that followed.  A video of the event shows police officers shoving through the crowd and violently restraining activists.
> 
> Among those arrested were N.A Poe, who is one of the primary organizers of the event, Adam Kokesh, who has been a regular speaker at the Smoke Down Prohibition events and was speaking at the time of his arrest, and Don Dezarn, who is currently the Libertarian Party of New Jersey’s candidate for the New Jersey State Senate in the 14th Legislative District.
> 
> Both Poe and Kokesh are currently being held at the United States Federal Detention facility in Philadelphia.  Dezarn was issued a citation by Park Rangers and released.

----------


## AFPVet

Did he have a permit for this? The audio was $#@! so I don't know what they said to him. It may have been that he was told to disperse and he refused. If that were the case, he would have been charged with trespassing as well as resisting. So who knows. There are a crap load of laws that anyone can be charged with depending on the cop... disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct.... 

Yeah, there's no free speech anymore without a permit. A permit means that you are allowed to do something that would ordinarily be illegal. It sounds like this may have been the case. He was probably told to disperse since he didn't have a permit to have a protest on public park land and was told to leave... didn't....

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well, I don't agree with that because there is still the need for police and those who join to serve a good purpose and do NOT abuse the office I don't tar with the same brush.
> 
> But we can disagree.


Sailing, you are missing the point.  ALL police enforce unconstitutional and invasive laws.  They cannot join the force and expect only to enforce moral ones because they have to enforce ALL of the laws.

----------


## sailingaway

> Sailing, you are missing the point.  ALL police enforce unconstitutional and invasive laws.  They cannot join the force and expect only to enforce moral ones because they have to enforce ALL of the laws.


I understand what you are saying but there is no police force available to enforce only constitutional laws and protect people and their property who need it, and people who are driven by that have nowhere else to go, so I judge each person individually.

----------


## torchbearer

> Sailing, you are missing the point.  ALL police enforce unconstitutional and invasive laws.  They cannot join the force and expect only to enforce moral ones because they have to enforce ALL of the laws.


I can speak for my state's laws, but an officer doesn't have to enforce any law in this state.
they have something called 'officer's discretion'

----------


## sailingaway

This is circulating on the internet with the implication the guy in the video is putting something in Adam's back pocket as he is being arrested.  I can't see for absolute certain myself, but if something is found in his back pocket it may turn out to be relevant:

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You know, they're pack animals.  Individually, there probably some decent human beings in there.  But they're just like other packs of animals - at best, they go along to get along.


Kind of like scientists and teachers.

----------


## pcosmar

> Did he have a permit for this? The audio was $#@! so I don't know what they said to him. It may have been that he was told to disperse and he refused. If that were the case, he would have been charged with trespassing as well as resisting. So who knows. There are a crap load of laws that anyone can be charged with depending on the cop... disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct.... 
> 
> Yeah, there's no free speech anymore without a permit. A permit means that you are allowed to do something that would ordinarily be illegal. It sounds like this may have been the case. He was probably told to disperse since he didn't have a permit to have a protest on public park land and was told to leave... didn't....


http://www.thedailychronic.net/2013/...demonstration/



> Witnesses say that unlike previous Smoke Down Prohibition events, there was a large police presence — some say there were as many as 50 police cars parked nearby. In addition, the *“Free Speech Area”* where the monthly demonstrations occur was surrounded by police barricades, with the exception of a few entry/exit points. Along the barricades were signs  posted stating that “the possession and/or use of controlled substances is prohibited.”


That link has a much better video and sound.

Oh,, and Adam was not the organizer. he was just a speaker.
The Organizer (as I understand) was one N.A.Poe. He was also arrested.
http://www.youtube.com/user/NikkiAllenPoe

----------


## amy31416

> Kind of like scientists and teachers.


Yes. Teachers and scientists are all like that, which is why you're paying thousands upon thousands to beg them for a degree after 4-8 years (I'll give you 8, because you're "special").

----------


## TheTexan

> I understand what you are saying but there is no police force available to enforce only constitutional laws and protect people and their property who need it, and people who are driven by that have nowhere else to go, so I judge each person individually.


So, if a guy joins the force to save kitties, but ends up shooting innocent people, thats ok because all he wanted to do was save kitties?

----------


## sailingaway

> So, if a guy joins the force to save kitties, but ends up shooting innocent people, thats ok because all he wanted to do was save kitties?


No, but it is his shooting innocent people not his being on the force that would be what was unacceptable.

----------


## CPUd



----------


## WhistlinDave

> Did he have a permit for this? The audio was $#@! so I don't know what they said to him. It may have been that he was told to disperse and he refused. If that were the case, he would have been charged with trespassing as well as resisting. So who knows. There are a crap load of laws that anyone can be charged with depending on the cop... disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct.... 
> 
> Yeah, there's no free speech anymore without a permit. A permit means that you are allowed to do something that would ordinarily be illegal. It sounds like this may have been the case. He was probably told to disperse since he didn't have a permit to have a protest on public park land and was told to leave... didn't....


Oh, the irony of needing a permit in order to exercise one's freedom of speech...

----------


## TheTexan

> No, but it is his shooting innocent people not his being on the force that would be what was unacceptable.


Aside from perhaps cops who direct traffic all day, all cops commit crimes against innocent people just in the course of their daily duties.  Cops who dont, get fired.  Its a criminal institution the very purpose of which is to commit crimes

Yes, every cop should still be judged as an individual.  But I do believe you would have a VERY hard time finding an individual who has been a cop for any significant amount of time that didnt regularly harm innocent people.

----------


## CPUd

> Did he have a permit for this? The audio was $#@! so I don't know what they said to him. It may have been that he was told to disperse and he refused. If that were the case, he would have been charged with trespassing as well as resisting. So who knows. There are a crap load of laws that anyone can be charged with depending on the cop... disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct.... 
> 
> Yeah, there's no free speech anymore without a permit. A permit means that you are allowed to do something that would ordinarily be illegal. It sounds like this may have been the case. He was probably told to disperse since he didn't have a permit to have a protest on public park land and was told to leave... didn't....


So far, it doesn't look like they say anything to him before they grabbed him.  The cops did know what was happening there beforehand, because it is not the first one of these events.  Adam and the other guy with the mic was saying $#@! the law and smoke it anyway.  Then they count down from 10 and all light at the same time.  That's when the cops moved on him.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I'll put this here.
> 
> ''It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace — but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!''
> 
> Patrick Henry...the 'inciter'


Patrick Henry was doing far more than inciting people to get high and becoming pretty worthless to get anything done.

----------


## WhistlinDave

> So far, it doesn't look like they say anything to him before they grabbed him.  The cops did know what was happening there beforehand, because it is not the first one of these events.  Adam and the other guy with the mic was saying $#@! the law and smoke it anyway.  Then they count down from 10 and all light at the same time.  That's when the cops moved on him.


Ah, so the initial charge must be conspiracy to incite being accessory to association with organized collusion to set fire to plant material in a Federal park without a fire permit.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Patrick Henry was doing far more than inciting people to get high and becoming pretty worthless to get anything done.


some people smell the fire before seeing it.

----------


## Barrex

> Ah, so the initial charge must be conspiracy to incite being accessory to association with organized collusion to set fire to plant material in a Federal park without a fire permit.


But he wasnt counting down or saying people to light it up. I dont think that he said much at all before they grabbed him.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I understand what you are saying but there is no police force available to enforce only constitutional laws and protect people and their property who need it, and people who are driven by that have nowhere else to go, so I judge each person individually.


That is preposterous.  Why can't they simply be good citizens?  Why is a good man forced to be part of a tyrannical state in order to exercise their version of morality?  Nobody HAS to be part of a police force, and if the only police force "available" for them is one that enforces tyrannical laws and upholds the police state, then it would be more appropriate for him to simply abstain from joining the police force and trying the best man he can be on his own.  You don't need the police in order to be a good person, and you don't need to join an army of thugs in order to feel like you're helping society.  Who knows the kind of debauchery this once-good man might be forced to commit all in the name of following orders so he can keep his job?  Illegal raids?  Roadside searches and drug arrests?  Any good man would not willingly associate with such evil just because he thinks police can theoretically be a good thing in a minarchist society, which is debatable.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I can speak for my state's laws, but an officer doesn't have to enforce any law in this state.
> they have something called 'officer's discretion'


You sure about that?  What if an officer were to stop a senseless beating by another officer?  We've had officers who have done just that and have been fired because of it.  What, for instance, do you suppose would happen to this cop if they were not generating enough revenue for the state through drug money or failing to reach their speeding ticket quotas?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes. Teachers and scientists are all like that, which is why you're paying thousands upon thousands to beg them for a degree after 4-8 years (I'll give you 8, because you're "special").


What's your point?  Who said I was paying anything to anyone to beg for anything?  Why the personal attacks?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No, but it is his shooting innocent people not his being on the force that would be what was unacceptable.


Do you doubt that this same man would likely go without charges if he were to shoot innocent people?  No good man takes a position that is so inherently abusive that it allows criminals to go free because they are part of the organization.  No good man needs to be part of an evil organization in order to exercise good.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Patrick Henry was doing far more than inciting people to get high and becoming pretty worthless to get anything done.


Is that what civil disobedience is to you?  Does getting high automatically make someone "worthless"?

----------


## TheTexan

> You sure about that?  What if an officer were to stop a senseless beating by another officer?  We've had officers who have done just that and have been fired because of it?  What, for instance, do you suppose would happen to this cop if they were not generating enough revenue for the state through drug money or failing to reach their speeding ticket quotas?


Exactly, even if there is a written policy of officer discretion, the reality of that policy is much different.  Either enforce the law as your _department_ sees fit, or you're out.

----------


## green73

> Patrick Henry was doing far more than inciting people to get high and becoming pretty worthless to get anything done.


You are such a brilliant thinker. That's why I love you.

----------


## AFPVet

> Ah, so the initial charge must be conspiracy to incite being accessory to association with organized collusion to set fire to plant material in a Federal park without a fire permit.


Sounds about right to me lol... our society is so screwed

----------


## amy31416

> What's your point?  Who said I was paying anything to anyone to beg for anything?  Why the personal attacks?


You say some really dumb and hypocritical things sometimes. I won't waste my time explaining unless you respond with something equally ridiculous--maybe.

----------


## sailingaway

> That is preposterous.  Why can't they simply be good citizens?  Why is a good man forced to be part of a tyrannical state in order to exercise their version of morality?  Nobody HAS to be part of a police force, and if the only police force "available" for them is one that enforces tyrannical laws and upholds the police state, then it would be more appropriate for him to simply abstain from joining the police force and trying the best man he can be on his own.  You don't need the police in order to be a good person, and you don't need to join an army of thugs in order to feel like you're helping society.  Who knows the kind of debauchery this once-good man might be forced to commit all in the name of following orders so he can keep his job?  Illegal raids?  Roadside searches and drug arrests?  Any good man would not willingly associate with such evil just because he thinks police can theoretically be a good thing in a minarchist society, which is debatable.


Clearly you have a different point of view, but I disagree with it. Particularly in small towns and rural areas I think there isn't even the culture that is a problem in some places.  Having just watched and heard the Dorner debacle, I'm not so sure about Los Angeles police however.  But I do know kids want to grow up to be police and don't for a moment think that what you describe is the job they are getting into.  A lot of these kids BECOME police, and then it is the job they have.

----------


## LovinThisLiberty



----------


## TaftFan

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-fed...r-adam-kokesh/

----------


## Weston White

He does not seem to be showing up in either New Jersey or Philadelphia:

https://www6.state.nj.us/DOC_Inmate/inmatesearch
http://www.phila.gov/prisons/inmatelocator/

----------


## KingNothing

> He does not seem to be showing up in either New Jersey or Philadelphia:
> 
> https://www6.state.nj.us/DOC_Inmate/inmatesearch
> http://www.phila.gov/prisons/inmatelocator/


He hasn't been processed yet.  Right?  I believe that means he won't show up.

----------


## sailingaway

> He hasn't been processed yet.  Right?  I believe that means he won't show up.


we  had a location for him yesterday, I haven't read through the whole thread but I saw on twitter the AJ link about 'disappearing' him and I will go through this - does anyone know that he WASN'T where he was supposed to have been last night?

----------


## sailingaway

OK, this is what I got off twitter last night:




> from twitter:
> 
> *HiramHawk ‏@HiramHawk 54m
> Adam Kokesh transferred to the Fed Detention Ctr - Phone is 215-686-3007 http://bit.ly/15XCRnD  #policestate #tyranny #news #nra #anonymous*
> 
> https://twitter.com/HiramHawk/status/335953471687761921



don't know how good their information is

----------


## WhistlinDave

Somebody has organized a "call flood" for tomorrow on Facebook, to inundate the Feds with phone calls to pressure them to drop the charges and release him:

https://www.facebook.com/events/376600445792905/

----------


## sailingaway

> Somebody has organized a "call flood" for tomorrow on Facebook, to inundate the Feds with phone calls to pressure them to drop the charges and release him:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/events/376600445792905/


that's sweet, but do you see someone dropping charges because the switchboard is having a hard time?

Now, it might make it clear people are paying attention...

----------


## jclay2

Don't know if this is accurate. This is from daily paul:

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinde...Age=&x=82&y=15

----------


## TaftFan

> Don't know if this is accurate. This is from daily paul:
> 
> http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinde...Age=&x=82&y=15


I didn't know he was 41.

edit-wikipedia says 31

May have been a typing error or a miscommunication

----------


## sailingaway

> Don't know if this is accurate. This is from daily paul:
> 
> http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinde...Age=&x=82&y=15


thanks

----------


## QuickZ06

Any word yet?

----------


## Weston White

Oh, so he is in prison then or now. From the BOP Website's FAQ:

If you are not sure of an inmate's mailing address, call 202-307-3126 between the hours of 8 a.m. and 3:45 p.m., Eastern Standard Time, Monday through Friday. 

And it looks like you have to FOIA for the charges and additional inmate details.  http://www.bop.gov/foia/index.jsp

----------


## QuickZ06

That whole drug planting video is nuts. Sketchy.

----------


## affa

> Patrick Henry was doing far more than inciting people to get high and becoming pretty worthless to get anything done.


i do not smoke weed.  however, the hardest working guy i know (to a ridiculous degree, really) smokes up all the time.   the stereotype might be true of college stoners that would just be sitting around playing video games even if they were sober, but it's not particularly true outside of that.

----------


## affa

> I understand what you are saying but there is no police force available to enforce only constitutional laws and protect people and their property who need it, and people who are driven by that have nowhere else to go, so I judge each person individually.


I'm sure a great number of brownshirts and jackboots thought they were doing the right thing, too.

----------


## sailingaway

> I'm sure a great number of brownshirts and jackboots thought they were doing the right thing, too.


If a particular individual does the wrong thing, I will condemn that. I am just not going to assume it without evidence any more than I would think them right to condemn without evidence.

----------


## asurfaholic

Okay it's Monday, we better start getting some answers soon..

----------


## 69360

Maybe we'll get lucky and they will keep him in jail until after 2016 so he doesn't cause any trouble or get associated with Rand.

----------


## speciallyblend

> That whole drug planting video is nuts. Sketchy.


  It was nothing. It was Don and he was not planting anything. move on. totally false accusation don is known by adam kokesh and a candidate.

----------


## speciallyblend

> Maybe we'll get lucky and they will keep him in jail until after 2016 so he doesn't cause any trouble or get associated with Rand.


$#@! you for even saying that BS! He is doing nothing wrong. It is you sitting on your ass trying to be a monday morning quarterback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O7sE1f8NA8<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O7sE1f8NA8">

----------


## speciallyblend

> Any word yet?


have you not heard? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Kq7sxFYYA<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Kq7sxFYYA">

----------


## speciallyblend

> i do not smoke weed.  however, the hardest working guy i know (to a ridiculous degree, really) smokes up all the time.   the stereotype might be true of college stoners that would just be sitting around playing video games even if they were sober, but it's not particularly true outside of that.


Liberty Eagle comments seem that reefer madness worked.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Liberty Eagle comments seem that reefer madness worked.


YEAH NYLON!!! 

-t

----------


## moostraks

> Patrick Henry was doing far more than inciting people to get high and becoming pretty worthless to get anything done.


So you are only worthy if the liberty position you petition for is one condoned by those citizens deemed worthy? How typical...

----------


## speciallyblend

for all the people saying don planted something, move on and post this, https://www.facebook.com/don.dezarn....37040603154334

----------


## idiom

> The fact that he was arrested is straightforward evidence that he is _not_ Cointelpro. Real provocateurs (whom I have witnessed in person at NY marijuana rallies) always set _other people_ up for arrest, while the authorities give the provocateurs a pass.


Which is why it would be brilliant to arrest him!

----------


## Root

NJ Weedman posted that Adam didn't have any cannabis on him. He had offered to smoke Adam up, but he had declined.

----------


## 69360

> $#@! you for even saying that BS! He is doing nothing wrong. It is you sitting on your ass trying to be a monday morning quarterback.


Got your panties in a bunch?

Kokesh is nothing but trouble. He's either a cointelpro agent provocateur or in need of mental health treatment. Either way no good will come of his actions.

----------


## openfire

> Got your panties in a bunch?
> 
> Kokesh is nothing but trouble. He's either a cointelpro agent provocateur *or in need of mental health treatment.* Either way no good will come of his actions.


Why is he in need of mental health treatment?

----------


## 69360

> Why is he in need of mental health treatment?


Ever watch him talk? He's a freaking space cadet and his actions are erratic at very best. He got banned from all Ron Paul events for a reason.

----------


## Working Poor

> Which is why it would be brilliant to arrest him!


Yes it would be. There is no harm in keeping ones guard up when your instinct says something is not quite right. I do not know Adam personally I have followed his actions and watched avm. 

My instinct tells me something is not quite right with him. I don't know what it is that is not right but still I intend to listen to my gut.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You say some really dumb and hypocritical things sometimes. I won't waste my time explaining unless you respond with something equally ridiculous--maybe.


That's your opinion, but I don't see why you make personal attacks unless you are willing to back them up.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Clearly you have a different point of view, but I disagree with it. Particularly in small towns and rural areas I think there isn't even the culture that is a problem in some places.  Having just watched and heard the Dorner debacle, I'm not so sure about Los Angeles police however.  But I do know kids want to grow up to be police and don't for a moment think that what you describe is the job they are getting into.  A lot of these kids BECOME police, and then it is the job they have.


Do you live in a small town?  Because I do, and I can tell you officers enforce just as many unconstitutional laws here and haven't a clue what the Constitution is about.  It's not even debatable that virtually all police enforce unconstitutional laws.  The system operates this way all over the country, not just in urban areas.  They're there to generate revenue, and believe me, every small town needs revenue.  Most kids who want to be police want to be police because of the propaganda.  I thought it was cool once, but I grew out of it.  The only people who take that kind of job now, even if they are good-intentioned, end up enforcing unconstitional laws.  You seem to think that good intentions excuses evil behavior, and with that I vehemently disagree.

----------


## DonovanJames

I'm guessing a majority of the people on this forum stopped watching TV a long time ago... It's a distraction to whats really important...

It's a distraction to whats really important...

distraction to whats really important...

whats really important...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> If a particular individual does the wrong thing, I will condemn that. I am just not going to assume it without evidence any more than I would think them right to condemn without evidence.


Sailing, they all do it.  This is indisputable.  It's the nature of the system.  You know it and I know it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Got your panties in a bunch?
> 
> Kokesh is nothing but trouble. He's either a cointelpro agent provocateur or in need of mental health treatment. Either way no good will come of his actions.


So that justifies locking him up for doing nothing?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ... My instinct tells me something is not quite right with him. I don't know what it is that is not right but still I intend to listen to my gut.


Unless your brain backs it up, why listen to your gut?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Ever watch him talk? He's a freaking space cadet and his actions are erratic at very best. He got banned from all Ron Paul events for a reason.


What reason? Did the people who banned Kokesh publish their reasons, so the rest of us can evaluate them for ourselves?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Got your panties in a bunch?
> 
> Kokesh is nothing but trouble. He's either a cointelpro agent provocateur or in need of mental health treatment. Either way no good will come of his actions.


That's what all feds say, but there's this thing called due process.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Got your panties in a bunch?
> 
> Kokesh is nothing but trouble. He's either a cointelpro agent provocateur or in need of mental health treatment. Either way no good will come of his actions.


Are you advocating Soviet style political detention ?
Don't wish too hard, they will come for you too.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> If a particular individual does the wrong thing, I will condemn that. I am just not going to assume it without evidence any more than I would think them right to condemn without evidence.


If you were under attack from an army, would you give each enemy combatant a trial before exercising your right to self-defense?

----------


## green73

> 


*wtf*

----------


## JK/SEA

there ya go ladies and gents...mocking and drunk with power, knowing full well nothing will happen to them. We are truly witnessing the fall of the American Empire. 

Are we having fun yet?

----------


## Lucille

> *wtf*


^ Bizarre.

----------


## kathy88

That phone call was beyond bizarro. What a tard.

----------


## Barrex

For those of you that say he is "little off", "strange" and "cointelpro". You are all those things too. Why Because I got same amount evidence of it like you have in case of Adam.


Why is he "little off"?

Watch his video where he speaks how after he returned from war he couldnt sleep and had problems and doctors gave him sleeping pills... and those pills had side effects of suicide tendencies...you know that thing that took his friends etc....


People let all breakes on internet and spew anything that comes into their minds. No tact, no intelligence, no decency. Gogol in his work "dead souls" had nice observation about these kind of people.

----------


## green73

So still no phone call from Adam? No updates? Have the Feds disappeared him? AJ reports...

----------


## NationalAnarchist

When should he be in court today?

----------


## Todd

So what is the initial charge(s)?   

In order for you to "resist" arrest, You had to have been arrested for something else.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

The U.S. District Court in Philadelphia, http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/, just told me they don't know ahead of time whether Kokesh will be brought today, but if he is, it will be at 1:30 in Philadelphia.

----------


## Wolfgang Bohringer

> So what is the initial charge(s)?   
> 
> In order for you to "resist" arrest, You had to have been arrested for something else.


Actually, as part of their "Learned Helplessness" strategy, I think they expect us to accept being tried and convicted on a charge of "resisting arrest" even though there is no underlying charge.

Likewise they may charge us with "conspiracy" without an underlying charge--while calling us "conspiracy theorists" at the same time of course.

Its very similar to when they yell "stop resisting!" while beating us over the head with batons or when they bomb Syria and warn them not to retaliate.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Don't know if this is accurate. This is from daily paul:
> 
> http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinde...Age=&x=82&y=15


Not reliable; I was locked in a cell for 5 months while it said I'd been released.

----------


## ninepointfive

> for all the people saying don planted something, move on and post this, https://www.facebook.com/don.dezarn....37040603154334


Can someone with a facebook please goto that link and post the info back here, or on this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-guy&p=5033301

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Actually, as part of their "Learned Helplessness" strategy, I think they expect us to accept being tried and convicted on a charge of "resisting arrest" even though there is no underlying charge.
> 
> Likewise they may charge us with "conspiracy" without an underlying charge--while calling us "conspiracy theorists" at the same time of course.
> 
> Its very similar to when they yell "stop resisting!" while beating us over the head with batons or when they bomb Syria and warn them not to retaliate.


You're exhibiting a disorder called "problems with authority".

----------


## Wolfgang Bohringer

> You're exhibiting a disorder called "problems with authority".


They call it "oppositional defiant disorder" when they disappear veterans such as Brandon Raub to be forced drugged in the Soviet-style psychiatric gulag.

And I think they pile on the redundancies when they create their clinical terms (can you be defiant and not "oppositional"?), just to rub our noses further into their absurdities.

----------


## 69360

> So that justifies locking him up for doing nothing?


No but it would be for the best.




> What reason? Did the people who banned Kokesh publish their reasons, so the rest of us can evaluate them for ourselves?


I believe the straw that broke the camel's back was when he threatened to assassinate Romney on the air.




> Are you advocating Soviet style political detention ?
> Don't wish too hard, they will come for you too.


Unlikely. I have a low profile and don't go looking for trouble, IE. I don't smoke dope in public in states where it's illegal and don't march into states carrying where it's illegal. I respect the rule of law. We have a process to change unconstitutional laws in this country and it's not invading DC.

----------


## Weston White

Wow they already have a Website designated for Operation Phone-meld (not the official name, just something I made up): http://freeadam.net/

* And with instructions: http://freeadam.net/2013/05/19/free-...on-may-20-8am/

----------


## MrTudo

> so whats the story? I watched it. When did it happen? What are charges? Why does the crowd just let the police arrest him?


Let? You think they would fight? LOL

If that was even a remote possibility it should have happened during the elections.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I believe the straw that broke the camel's back was when he threatened to assassinate Romney on the air.


I have not studied this personally and I'm not here to defend Adam but for as far as I am aware he did not threaten to do that personally. He read a letter somebody else wrote. It's a severe error in judgement, not an actual threat from Adam. I don't remember the contents of the letter but those should be blamed on the writer. Adam should have known better and not read the letter on-air. Freedom of speech does not mean everything you say has to be extreme and I think it's obvious that in many cases extremism does not help any cause.




> Unlikely. I have a low profile and don't go looking for trouble, IE. I don't smoke dope in public in states where it's illegal and don't march into states carrying where it's illegal. I respect the rule of law. We have a process to change unconstitutional laws in this country and it's not invading DC.


Just checking, good. You do however not deny the soviet inspired method of dealing with 'certain' people. That is sort of scary. This is Ron Paul forums, not commie boards?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ... I respect the rule of law. We have a process to change unconstitutional laws in this country....


The Supreme Court says, "a legislative act contrary to the constitution is *not law*". Marbury v. Madison, 5 US 137 - Supreme Court 1803.

What is the process we have to "change" unconstitutional legislative acts?

----------


## ninepointfive

> Freedom of speech does not mean everything you say has to be extreme and I think it's obvious that in many cases extremism does not help any cause.


in some cases you may be right. 

but in others.....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> in some cases you may be right. 
> 
> but in others.....


It may not be a vice, which I agree with you on. 
It is however tactically inferior to calculated language.
Good intentions will not get you there, creative and subtle solutions will often have more effects. 
Just look at the general success of moderates, proves my point.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Kokesh ... He's either a cointelpro agent provocateur or in need of mental health treatment.... when he threatened to assassinate Romney on the air.


Post a link to it, please?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> the soviet inspired method of dealing with 'certain' people


--> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...5XMztzZy-c/pub

----------


## pcosmar

> Post a link to it, please?


He can not. It is a bald faced lie. one I have heard repeated by those that dislike Adam.
He did not threaten to assassinate anyone..
He discussed an e-mail that alluded to such.

Haters are quick to twist it into an accusation.. but it is completely untrue.

----------


## asurfaholic

> Maybe we'll get lucky and they will keep him in jail until after 2016 so he doesn't cause any trouble or get associated with Rand.


I don't particularly LIKE Kokesh either, but I don't wish federal detention on anybody. Even if he is as bad as you think, don't you think you are falling to the same level as the neocon/liberal types who think all Ron Paul supporters are nutty conspiracy theorists who need to get back on thier meds? 

I don't watch his stuff, so I can't say you are right or wrong about him being a nutjob, but shouldn't we as a group at least support his right to be nutty if he wants to be?

----------


## amy31416

> That's your opinion, but I don't see why you make personal attacks unless you are willing to back them up.


You really can't figure it out?

You're a very hostile person, thus leaving yourself open for personal attacks (which you dish out with great regularity), so when you say something dumb about teachers and scientists, you make yourself an easy target. Do you still not understand that when you're paying to go to college, you are paying teachers and scientists, whom you claim to dislike and disrespect?

You made the personal attack on anyone here who is a teacher or scientist, try to comprehend that.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

What time do Courts generally process "weekend" people on Mondays?

----------


## Roxi

You would think that the D-bags advocating and praising his arrest would realize that it shouldn't matter what you think of a person, you should still stand up for their rights. If we allow our enemies to lose their rights, then we can bet our ass that one day we'll lose our own too.

----------


## ninepointfive

> You would think that the D-bags advocating and praising his arrest would realize that it shouldn't matter what you think of a person, you should still stand up for their rights. If we allow our enemies to lose their rights, then we can bet our ass that one day we'll lose our own too.


no joke - but you must realize these people aren't on the forum because they're for liberty. It's likely that they are paid shills seeking to cause division within the ranks. Zipcode guy and his buddies for example.

----------


## kathy88

> The U.S. District Court in Philadelphia, http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/, just told me they don't know ahead of time whether Kokesh will be brought today, but if he is, it will be at 1:30 in Philadelphia.


Did Lolita answer the phone?

----------


## moostraks

> there ya go ladies and gents...mocking and drunk with power, knowing full well nothing will happen to them. We are truly witnessing the fall of the American Empire. 
> 
> Are we having fun yet?


I saw this same sort of immaturity with top tier cps workers. If they don't consider you worthy they don't care how asinine they look as they feel your witness of their behavior won't be taken seriously by anyone who matters. It is disgusting and infuriating.

----------


## jclay2

So we are still in the dark? Maybe he will be in court today?

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I don't watch his stuff, so I can't say you are right or wrong about him being a nutjob, but shouldn't we as a group at least support his right to be nutty if he wants to be?



Maybe we could just reject ad-homs as lacking substance.  Ummm, since they lack substance.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Did Lolita answer the phone?


Didn't catch his name.

----------


## Roxi



----------


## MrTudo

What is a "cointel pro"? I am not familiar with the term?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You're exhibiting a disorder called "problems with authority".


No, you're just clearly in need of mental therapy, oh and GTFO while you're at it, because you're making us all look bad.

*/S*

----------


## Roxi

> What is a "cointel pro"? I am not familiar with the term?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cointelpro

----------


## Anti Federalist

> What is a "cointel pro"? I am not familiar with the term?


COINTELPRO (an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert, and at times illegal,[1] projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveying, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

----------


## sailingaway

I think the topic of this thread is Adam getting arrested, but this side discussion about the merits of weed can be addressed in a separate thread, if people want to.

Personally, after all the media Adam got for his upcoming 2d amendment march including on Fox and CBS, I think that had more to do with it.

----------


## Barrex

> I think the topic of this thread is Adam getting arrested, but this side discussion about the merits of weed can be addressed in a separate thread, if people want to.


COINTELPRO

----------


## ninepointfive

> But, to each their own.  People should be able to do what they want.  But, again, don't expect me to claim you are fighting for liberty because you managed to get high, or tried to talk others into doing the same.  lol


Adam Kokesh is more productive for Liberty than you are, Ma'am. And he smokes pot and does other drugs openly. take that for a gander.

----------


## green73

So, is Kokesh like in court now?

----------


## ninepointfive

> So, is Kokesh like in court now?


Probably just a hearing in front of a magistrate to set bail and a later hearing for an arraignment, but I'm not sure how fed court works.

----------


## 69360

It's your right to smoke all the dope you want and bear arms, hopefully not at once anyway.  But the way Kokesh goes about this is all wrong. He's cointelpro or a f-ed in the head showboating jackass who needs help and is going to set all we've worked for back a generation with his antics. Jail is probably the best place for him now.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> But, again, don't expect me to claim you are fighting for liberty because you managed to get high, or tried to talk others into doing the same.  lol


I don't know that is the case at all.

People encouraged other people to drink as a way to beat back Prohibition.

If pushing back and eventually overturning Prohibition is a struggle for liberty (I think it is) then there is a good example.

----------


## sailingaway

> It's your right to smoke all the dope you want and bear arms. But the way Kokesh goes about this is all wrong. He's cointelpro or a f-ed in the head showboating jackass who needs help and is going to set all we've worked for back a generation with his antics. Jail is probably the best place for him now.


How pro liberty.

Kokesh's style isn't my style, but he was trying to make a difference, pro liberty, and wasn't hurting anyone.

I'm definitely on his side on this one.

----------


## 69360

> How pro liberty.


I have a right to my opinion. The crap he pulls makes all of us look bad. He was banned from events for a reason and that was it.

----------


## ninepointfive

> How pro liberty.
> 
> Kokesh's style isn't my style, but he was trying to make a difference, pro liberty, and wasn't hurting anyone.
> 
> I'm definitely on his side on this one.


Have you seen one post from this person that isn't advocating some sort of division?. Nothing more than slander and derogatory names.

----------


## pcosmar

> Probably just a hearing in front of a magistrate to set bail and a later hearing for an arraignment, but I'm not sure how fed court works.


Not sure either.. was some "Federal Crime" alleged?

Why are they making a Federal Case of it? ( like that should even be possible)




> *In all criminal prosecutions,* the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the *State and district* wherein the crime shall have been committed, which *district* shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

----------


## MrTudo

> I don't know that is the case at all.
> 
> People encouraged other people to drink as a way to beat back Prohibition.
> 
> If pushing back and eventually overturning Prohibition is a struggle for liberty (I think it is) then there is a good example.




You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

----------


## Vessol

> I don't know that is the case at all.
> 
> People encouraged other people to drink as a way to beat back Prohibition.
> 
> If pushing back and eventually overturning Prohibition is a struggle for liberty (I think it is) then there is a good example.


This.

The more common pot smoking becomes the more likely the popular opinion will become against prohibition. Mass smoke-outs and other forms of marijuana protest can be effective in this manner.




> I have a right to my opinion. The crap he pulls makes all of us look bad. He was banned from events for a reason and that was it.


That doesn't mean that it's not an immoral opinion. You disagree with a guy, thus he deserves to have guns pointed at him and be forcefully kidnapped and held against his will in a cage. Nevermind that he has not violated anyone's personal liberties. That's pretty $#@!ed up if you ask me.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Probably just a hearing in front of a magistrate to set bail and a later hearing for an arraignment, but I'm not sure how fed court works.


federal theory (Rule 5) and practice

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> It's your right to smoke all the dope you want and bear arms, hopefully not at once anyway.  But the way Kokesh goes about this is all wrong. He's cointelpro or a f-ed in the head showboating jackass who needs help and is going to set all we've worked for back a generation with his antics. Jail is probably the best place for him now.


And that's based on his alleged threat against Romney, which you can't post a link to because it didn't really happen?




> I have a right to my opinion. The crap he pulls makes all of us look bad. He was banned from events for a reason and that was it.


Do you likewise take a person's imprisonment as proof of his guilt?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It's your right to smoke all the dope you want and bear arms, hopefully not at once anyway.  But the way Kokesh goes about this is all wrong. He's cointelpro or a f-ed in the head showboating jackass who needs help *and is going to set all we've worked for back a generation* with his antics. Jail is probably the best place for him now.


Yeah, cuz we are all so much more free now than we were 20 years ago...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I have a right to my opinion. *The crap he pulls makes all of us look bad*. He was banned from events for a reason and that was it.


LOL - And I post that as a joke...

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Yeah, cuz we are all so much more free now than we were 20 years ago...



lol.  No $#@!.  If anyone can set us back a generation, they'd have my full support.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> I was arrested for civil disobedience in philly before and taken to the same federal holding center that I assume Kokesh is in. I was processed and released on the same day. Granted my arrest wasn't on a weekend.


Were you charged with a federal crime?

----------


## brandon

> Were you charged with a federal crime?


Yes. I was arrested along with a couple hundred other people in a coordinated day of civil disobedience on the day the Iraq war started. We blocked all entrances to the federal building (which is the building kokesh is now in) and they had federal police come and carry us away one by one. They brought us all into cells in the federal building, held us for maybe half a day, then brought us in front of a judge and set us free.

The charge was something minor... "obstructing an entrance way" or something like that.  They processed all of us and let us out with like a $250 fine.

----------


## 69360

> That doesn't mean that it's not an immoral opinion. You disagree with a guy, thus he deserves to have guns pointed at him and be forcefully kidnapped and held against his will in a cage. Nevermind that he has not violated anyone's personal liberties. That's pretty $#@!ed up if you ask me.


No, that happened to him because he broke the law. Or because he's cointeltpro and enticing all of you to break the law and look like loonies.

----------


## pcosmar

> No, that happened to him because he broke the law.


NO he did not. He is not even charged with breaking ANY law.
He is charged with resisting arrest. (which is a crock of $#@!)

Resisting arrest is *not a crime* if if one is resisting an unlawful arrest.

In fact (as the SCOTUS has ruled) resisting an unlawful arrest with violence is not a crime.



> Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting 
> officer's life if necessary. Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This 
> premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the 
> case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: Where the 
> officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally 
> accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with 
> very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right 
> to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What 
> may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter 
> ...


http://constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.txt

----------


## NERVE

I didn't have a high opinion of kokesh a year ago, but I'm starting to like him more and more. The more people keep saying he is cointel pro and the more republican types and dems that get mad at kokesh the more the so called gun rights pussies go after him the more I am convinced he is a really good guy. Also I keep hearing people saying he is all about doing stunts and he is a self promoter. Isn't that how people become successful? I'm sure the British said the same crap about ghandi when he was on his way to get some salt.

----------


## Vessol

> No, that happened to him because he broke the law. Or because he's cointeltpro and enticing  *all of you to break the law and look like loonies*.


I think you're the only one succeeding at that here.

----------


## ninepointfive

> federal theory (Rule 5) and practice


ohh $#@!. bad news for yours truly. $#@!.

----------


## Lucille

> It's your right to smoke all the dope you want and bear arms, hopefully not at once anyway.  But the way Kokesh goes about this is all wrong. He's cointelpro or a f-ed in the head showboating jackass who needs help and is going to set all we've worked for back a generation with his antics. Jail is probably the best place for him now.


Those are your opinions, which you certainly have a right to (as wrong as they are).  But you might consider the Sage of Baltimore's wise words:

"For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
--H. L. Mencken

I just heard on Jones that they're charging Adam with assaulting an officer.

----------


## JK/SEA

So whats this crap Stewart Rhodes spouted off about concerning Kokesh saying the march is about overthrowing the government?....did Adam say that? apparently this was said in the AJ interview a few days ago...i didn't listen to the interview. I suppose i could research this, but if anyone has looked into this, could we get a link?

----------


## Lucille

Adam Kokesh Charged With Felony Assault On An Officer, Held Without Bail
http://libertycrier.com/government/a...-without-bail/

----------


## brandon

I guess there was a hearing today. Sounds like he and some other guy are charged with felony assault on a police officer, with a hearing scheduled for Thursday. Adam got permission from the judge to call his dad.

----------


## Peace Piper

> I didn't have a high opinion of kokesh a year ago, but I'm starting to like him more and more. The more people keep saying he is cointel pro and the more republican types and dems that get mad at kokesh the more the so called gun rights pussies go after him the more I am convinced he is a really good guy. Also I keep hearing people saying he is all about doing stunts and he is a self promoter. Isn't that how people become successful? I'm sure the British said the same crap about ghandi when he was on his way to get some salt.


You might find some of his 2300+ videos interesting

http://www.youtube.com/user/AdamKokesh/videos

Here he addresses critics:




He may be young and ambitious, but he appears to be a good guy, not afraid to tell it exactly as he sees it.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I guess there was a hearing today. Sounds like he and some other guy are charged with felony assault on a police officer, with a hearing scheduled for Thursday. Adam got permission from the judge to call his dad.



I failed to see the "assault" in the vids.

----------


## pcosmar

> So whats this crap Stewart Rhodes spouted off about concerning Kokesh saying the march is about overthrowing the government?....did Adam say that? apparently this was said in the AJ interview a few days ago...i didn't listen to the interview. I suppose i could research this, but if anyone has looked into this, could we get a link?


I don't know if he said that or it is just being twisted that way,, but that is the Intended Reason for the 2nd Amendment that few ever care to recognize or acknowledge.

----------


## speciallyblend

> I failed to see the "assault" in the vids.


exactly it is a trumped up charge. A layer should call it what it is. A BS Charge, every video i see is the police assaulting if anything.

----------


## sailingaway

> Adam Kokesh Charged With Felony Assault On An Officer, Held Without Bail
> http://libertycrier.com/government/a...-without-bail/


Without bail.

----------


## Roxi

No bail, court Thursday. Claimed a "possibility of a history of excessive drug use" 

Josie Harris, who was in court today:

----------


## 69360

> I didn't have a high opinion of kokesh a year ago, but I'm starting to like him more and more. The more people keep saying he is cointel pro and the more republican types and dems that get mad at kokesh the more the so called gun rights pussies go after him the more I am convinced he is a really good guy. Also I keep hearing people saying he is all about doing stunts and he is a self promoter. Isn't that how people become successful? I'm sure the British said the same crap about ghandi when he was on his way to get some salt.


somebody has a sock puppet

----------


## brandon

I'm baffled at how they came up with that charge. There is no way that will stick. I never was a fan of Kokesh but this is making me like him more.

----------


## amy31416

> I'm baffled at how they came up with that charge. There is no way that will stick. I never was a fan of Kokesh but this is making me like him more.


Yeah, I'm having the same reaction. That particular charge only means that they really don't have any reasonable charge, I'd guess.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> No, that happened to him because he broke the law.


...




> "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, *or even peaceful civil disobedience* to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul


...




> Civil disobedience is the active, professed* refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government*, or of an occupying international power


Thus endeth the lesson.

----------


## pcosmar

> I guess there was a hearing today. Sounds like he and some other guy are charged with felony assault on a police officer, with a hearing scheduled for Thursday. Adam got permission from the judge to call his dad.


That is ridiculous on it's face. Adam was assaulted by the Officers,, and gave nothing but passive resistance. it is clear from video recordings of the event.

The NO Bail part is more egregious. Armed robbers,, and accused rapists  and murder suspects are routinely given bail.

more to this

----------


## Root

> I'm baffled at how they came up with that charge. There is no way that will stick. I never was a fan of Kokesh but this is making me like him more.


It's amazing the after all these years, the government still doesn't grasp the concept of Blowback.

----------


## LibertyRevolution

So it is monday afternoon, any update on what the charges were?

----------


## donnay

> I'm baffled at how they came up with that charge. There is no way that will stick. I never was a fan of Kokesh but this is making me like him more.


Tell that to the countless innocent people in jail.

----------


## Lucille

Report: Adam Kokesh to be Charged With “Assaulting a Federal Officer”
http://www.infowars.com/report-adam-...deral-officer/




> UPDATE: The video below from a supporter confirms that Kokesh has been charged with felony assault of an officer and that he will not be allowed bail because of “a possibility of a history of excessive drug use.”
> [see roxic27's vid above]
> Incarcerated political activist Adam Kokesh, arrested by police for exercising his First Amendment rights during a pro-marijuana legalization protest on Saturday, is set to be charged with “assaulting a federal police officer,” despite the fact that the video of the incident shows him not resisting arrest.
> 
> “I’ve received word from a reputable but not official contact that Adam will be charged with assaulting a federal officer under 18 USC 111,” writes supporter and activist George Donnelly. “This is a very serious charge. Take note that this is not official information yet. The source however is very reputable.”
> 
> Kokesh was kidnapped by Philadelphia police as he gave a keynote speech on Saturday. The former Marine was not smoking or in possession of any drugs when he was arrested.
> 
> Video of the incident shows Kokesh holding up his hands as he is dragged away. Not only did Kokesh not resist arrest, he made no aggressive moves to any police officer, as the footage clearly shows.
> ...

----------


## jclay2

There is no way this trumped up bull $#@! will fly. He clearly did not assault the police officer from the video and the feds will have to have an answer for why they grabbed him in the first place. Seems to me that if they had a justified reason for apprehending him in the first place, they would charge him with that in court in addition to the assault on a fedcoat. The only way their scenario works out is if Kokesh magically attacked the officer and was the first to initiate contact. Otherwise, you have police officers apprehending a suspect without cause.

----------


## JK/SEA

gee, i wonder if any 'higher' ups are pulling any strings here?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

Here's the docket report and criminal complaint: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...cPZmQJ9Kac/pub

----------


## Anti Federalist

> exactly it is a trumped up charge. A layer should call it what it is. A BS Charge, every video i see is the police assaulting if anything.


He's $#@!ed...felony assault on a FedCoat...

They'll drag him in front of a compliant, rubber stamp jury, and it's off to the gulag for Brother Adam.

And some, who should damn well know better, will cheer this.

Just another day in AmeriKa...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Tell that to the countless innocent people in jail.


Millions of them, in the system...

----------


## Lucille

http://freeadam.net/2013/05/20/adam-...ccused-felony/

----------


## sailingaway

> Report: Adam Kokesh to be Charged With “Assaulting a Federal Officer”
> http://www.infowars.com/report-adam-...deral-officer/


no bail because of a POSSIBLE 'history of excessive drug use'?

What on earth does a history of excessive drug use have to do with bail?  People who take drugs get bail all the time.

----------


## phill4paul

> I failed to see the "assault" in the vids.


  It was tough to see but I imagine one of the officers may have pulled a hamstring while dragging the passive Kokesh away. The officer will probably get disability leave.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> more to this


Yes, it's called a pre-emptive arrest.

Politically motivated.

King George used it in Boston.

Lincoln used it during the Civil War.

Wilson used it during WWI

FDR in WWII.

Was used again during the protests over VietNam.

And now, since we are at war, forever, in the GWOT, this is now standard operating procedure, presumably, forever.

----------


## Philhelm

It has to be a felony so that he cannot "lawfully" possess a firearm.  In preparation for July 4th festivities of course.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> no bail because of a POSSIBLE 'history of excessive drug use'?
> 
> What on earth does a history of excessive drug use have to do with bail?  People who take drugs get bail all the time.


This is a political arrest.

It's designed to shut AK up and take him out of circulation.

Logic and justice and precedent don't matter.

Mission Accomplished.

----------


## sailingaway

so it says Kokesh did the following (true or not):

1. had a microphone just after someone else who said something had a microphone

2. locked arms with someone who had something in his hand

3. 'blocked' someone trying to get to the person beside him (because his body just happened to be in between?)

and 4. grabbed a park Ranger by the arm

That last is presumably the assault but it sure seems like NOT the kind of 'assault' that would prevent bail.

I don't see any possibility this isn't politically motivated.

No bail for grabbing someone by the arm momentarily then immediately going compliant as multiple video show?

Regardless of if he DID that (and I never saw it on a video yet), and regardless of if they can ultimately make 'assault' stick for that IF he did it....

the no bail is really very troublesome.

----------


## economics102

Not only does the video clearly show no assault, but of the 350 million citizens in this country, few have a more extensive history of being documented on video practicing nonviolent resistance/confrontation with law enforcement officers. We're supposed to believe that in some pocket of space-time we couldn't see from the video, that Adam for some reason acted differently than he has in the zillion other videos in which he is in confrontation with police?

The government clearly does NOT understand the concept of blowback. I can't see any scenario in which this doesn't backfire on them. Especially if they somehow manage to keep Adam locked up long enough to miss leading the march on DC -- the place where he was fully prepared to get arrested on a felony charge. They'll have turned this guy into a martyr by intentionally, wrongly detaining him to prevent him from martyring himself (by getting arrested at the march) a month later in a more politically visible way.

----------


## JK/SEA

Support the Troops.

----------


## economics102

> no bail because of a POSSIBLE 'history of excessive drug use'?
> 
> What on earth does a history of excessive drug use have to do with bail?  People who take drugs get bail all the time.


I can answer that. You see, potheads are notoriously lazy and irresponsible. If they grant bail, Adam might get himself so high while sitting on his couch at home that he forgets to show up for his next court date.

And he'll be high as a kite. So you see, he's a flight risk.

----------


## donnay

Adam has clearly become a political prisoner.  I am sure the President would have no problem labeling Adam an enemy combatant.

----------


## TheTexan

This is pretty $#@!ing blatant, more than usual, which says a lot...

1st amendment now officially means "speak freely... at your own risk"

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I can answer that. You see, potheads are notoriously lazy and irresponsible. If they grant bail, Adam might get himself so high while sitting on his couch at home that he forgets to show up for his next court date.
> 
> And he'll be high as a kite. So you see, he's a flight risk.


Libertyeagle?

----------


## brandon

This is the code he is alleged to be in violation of. http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00111.html
Looks like a max sentence of 8 years. Looking at this more closely, and reading the criminal complaint, they may have a case. I haven't seen any videos of the moment the police grab Kokesh, I've only seen after they are dragging him out of the crowd.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> This is pretty $#@!ing blatant, more than usual, which says a lot...
> 
> 1st amendment now officially means "speak freely... at your own risk"


You got a problem with that, Mundane?

----------


## pcosmar

> This is pretty $#@!ing blatant, more than usual, which says a lot...
> 
> 1st amendment now officially means "speak freely... at your own risk"

----------


## JK/SEA

4,586 going to march, as of today.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ...the no bail is really very troublesome.


You were warned.

----------


## brandon

He will be given bail. They postponed the bail hearing until Thursday because Kokesh is refusing to speak.

----------


## donnay

> He will be given bail. They postponed the bail hearing until Thursday because Kokesh is refusing to speak.



He refused to tell the feds whether or not he has guns.  They are playing games.  Adam is smart to remain silent.

----------


## sailingaway

> He will be given bail. They postponed the bail hearing until Thursday because Kokesh is refusing to speak.


jail for exercising 5th amendment rights.

This gets better and better. /sarc

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> There is no way this trumped up bull $#@! will fly. He clearly did not assault the police officer from the video and the feds will have to have an answer for why they grabbed him in the first place. Seems to me that if they had a justified reason for apprehending him in the first place, they would charge him with that in court in addition to the assault on a fedcoat. The only way their scenario works out is if Kokesh magically attacked the officer and was the first to initiate contact. Otherwise, you have police officers apprehending a suspect without cause.



I guess he assaulted them off camera.  





> Yes, it's called a pre-emptive arrest.
> 
> Politically motivated.
> 
> King George used it in Boston.
> 
> Lincoln used it during the Civil War.
> 
> Wilson used it during WWI
> ...



clearly.






> It has to be a felony so that he cannot "lawfully" possess a firearm.  In preparation for July 4th festivities of course.




clearly.





> This is a political arrest.
> 
> It's designed to shut AK up and take him out of circulation.
> 
> Logic and justice and precedent don't matter.
> 
> Mission Accomplished.




Not yet.

----------


## sailingaway

> He refused to tell the feds whether or not he has guns.  They are playing games.  Adam is smart to remain silent.


It is none of their business if he has guns, and has nothing at all to do with grabbing someone's arm before you figure out they are an official, then dropping it, which is the MOST he could have done in the time before I saw him clearly out of the scrum.  I didn't see a grab at all.

But asking that sure tips their hand to the real reason they did it.  I thought from the video the guy id'd ADAM specifically and headed towards him.  I think it was the 2d amendment march all the time.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> jail for exercising 5th amendment rights.
> 
> This gets better and better. /sarc


Hey Lou, getta load of dis...another uppity Mundane "chirping" about their "rights".

<thump>

There's ya rights, ya hippiecommienaziterroristextremist!

----------


## Aratus

we all may have to moneybomb to get him back to where ordinary humanity is,
if the feds try to make a shining example of him for all time. lets help him out!!!

----------


## donnay

> It is none of their business if he has guns, and has nothing at all to do with grabbing someone's arm before you figure out they are an official, then dropping it, which is the MOST he could have done in the time before I saw him clearly out of the scrum.  I didn't see a grab at all.
> 
> But asking that sure tips their hand to the real reason they did it.  I thought from the video the guy id'd ADAM specifically and headed towards him.  I think it was the 2d amendment march all the time.



They still have not yet allowed him a phone call.  Lucas Jewell just phoned this information to Alex Jones.

----------


## angelatc

I hope someone is tending to his dog.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Not yet.


Let's hope not.

I'm not encouraged when some of our own are happy over this.

----------


## sailingaway

> I hope someone is tending to his dog.


Lucas was putting stuff up on his web page, I can't imagine they aren't tending to his dog. then again, I don't know if they have a key.

----------


## sailingaway

Does anyone know his attorney situation?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> He will be given bail. They postponed the bail hearing until Thursday because *Kokesh is refusing to speak*.


Good for him.

I'm glad he isn't giving their kangaroo court charges and proceedings any sense of legitimacy.

----------


## Thor

> This is the code he is alleged to be in violation of. http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00111.html
> Looks like a max sentence of 8 years. Looking at this more closely, and reading the criminal complaint, they may have a case. I haven't seen any videos of the moment the police grab Kokesh, I've only seen after they are dragging him out of the crowd.

----------


## Lucille

> He refused to tell the feds whether or not he has guns.  They are playing games.  Adam is smart to remain silent.


Just saw that via twitter!:




> For those following the Adam Kokesh drama, some news:
> 
> BREAKING: Adam has appeared in front of a judge and from the looks of it he is in good health... He remained silent throughout the entire process not even speaking to the lawyer that I coordinated with earlier... He has a detention hearing scheduled for Thursday at 13:30... The reason for the detention hearing is because Adam will not speak on if he owns fire arms or his address. More to come. - Lucas Jewell

----------


## Aratus

tacitly... the obligatory phone call and his Miranda Rights are like Siamese twins joined at the hip!
that 19 year old who was born in a region of what was once the USSR was treated in a more legal
manner than has poor ADAM KOKESH, a brave Iraq war vet.  that 19 year old from overseas has 
been a citizen of the USA for less than two years.  the bigwigs in d.c are utilizing the park service
to set up a long and legal gauntlet run sans bail  on poor ADAM KOKESH that may last all summer.

----------


## donnay

> Does anyone know his attorney situation?


Again going on what Lucas Jewell said on Alex Jones' show, the reason they know he was not allowed to call his father yet is because the attorney told them.  They were down there to pick Adam up and because he wouldn't answer the question of guns--this will prolong his stay.

----------


## Lucille

> Does anyone know his attorney situation?


Someone said he wanted one, and he was assigned a public pretender, who got the judge to at least let him make a call to his dad.  Hopefully he's trying to arrange for a lawyer not owned by the state.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Does anyone know his attorney situation?


None listed on the docket sheet, which is where it would normally appear, even if they forced a public defender on him. Denial of counsel at an initial appearance is grounds for appeal...

----------


## donnay

Someone needs to contact Jerry Spence!

----------


## sailingaway

> Someone said he wanted one, and he was assigned a public pretender, who got the judge to at least let him make a call to his dad.  Hopefully he's trying to arrange for a lawyer not owned by the state.


that is what I meant.  Not that public defenders don't typically try to do their job but they might not be sensitive to the idea of 'no it is NOT ok to say he won't own guns to make them drop transparently trumped up charges' etc. 

I'm sure he will have 'counsel', but if he isn't out on bail the only information we will have will be screened and how do we find out if he is HAPPY with counsel?

----------


## TonySutton

Precedent exists in Philadelphia where you can strike a person from behind and simply say you were trying to knock a beer out of their hand so Adam should use that as an example while explaining he was simply trying to maintain his balance.

----------


## Aratus

I had the feeling that when a busybody with a book of "regs" like a city phonebook 
bee~lined over to where poor Adam was, this was the start of a long, hot summer...

----------


## sailingaway

> Precedent exists in Philadelphia where you can strike a person from behind and simply say you were trying to knock a beer out of their hand so Adam should use that as an example while explaining he was simply trying to maintain his balance.


if someone was trying to walk through him to  the guy with whom he had locked arms, particularly if they didn't approach from the front, he had every human reason to grab the arm until he knew who was doing the grabbing.

----------


## TheTexan

> Precedent exists in Philadelphia where you can strike a person from behind and simply say you were trying to knock a beer out of their hand so Adam should use that as an example while explaining he was simply trying to maintain his balance.


LOL are you referring to that cop who hit that woman?  If so I believe that defense only works for cops, would not advise trying that without a badge

----------


## pcosmar

Curious..
Did he grab the officer with the hand that was holding a Microphone,, or the hand that was holding on to the man next to him?

or was it some other hand that I'm not aware of?

----------


## jclay2

> Curious..
> Did he grab the officer with the hand that was holding a Microphone,, or the hand that was holding on to the man next to him?
> 
> or was it some other hand that I'm not aware of?


Re-education camp for you mundane.

----------


## juleswin

I keep waiting for that tyrannical govt. to arrive. Oh when oh when will it ever get here.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Let's hope not.
> 
> I'm not encouraged when some of our own are happy over this.



I'll let you re-evaluate that yourself.  Though, I'm sure it was tongue in cheek anyway.  





> Someone needs to contact Jerry Spence!




Spence is a personal hero of mine, but he's 85 or so.  I understand he still has a legal practice, but I think he's one of a kind.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> He will be given bail. They postponed the bail hearing until Thursday because Kokesh is refusing to speak.





> jail for exercising 5th amendment rights.
> 
> This gets better and better. /sarc


Yep. It sounds like he isn't speaking at all. Maybe he has a strategy of some sort (other than citing the 5th). Who needs to cite it anyway, It applies, and he used it!

----------


## sailingaway

from twitter:

*Trevor Lyman
‏@trevorlyman
Remember, the police are not intelligent, this is a fact.    http://t.co/AKQFnaeV8u We will outsmart them.  #FreeAdamKokesh*

It feels like the gang's all here.

----------


## mczerone

> Curious..
> Did he grab the officer with the hand that was holding a Microphone,, or the hand that was holding on to the man next to him?
> 
> or was it some other hand that I'm not aware of?


You're forgetting that 2 + 2 = 5.

and since 2-1=1, and 5-1-1=3, then 1+1=3

So obviously Adam has three arms, one of which was still free to "assault" Donald Reed.

----------


## sailingaway

> Curious..
> Did he grab the officer with the hand that was holding a Microphone,, or the hand that was holding on to the man next to him?
> 
> or was it some other hand that I'm not aware of?


I always knew Adam was talented.

But I saw that grip on the microphone, he wasn't letting that go for a moment.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

Is there a place for people to anonymously put their videos of Kokesh's abduction, keeping in mind the police's habit of confiscating videos and losing them?

----------


## sailingaway

> from twitter:
> 
> *Trevor Lyman
> ‏@trevorlyman
> Remember, the police are not intelligent, this is a fact.    http://t.co/AKQFnaeV8u We will outsmart them.  #FreeAdamKokesh*
> 
> It feels like the gang's all here.


here's the tweet.

https://twitter.com/trevorlyman/stat...64320076972033

----------


## sailingaway

> Is there a place for people to anonymously put their videos of Kokesh's abduction, keeping in mind the police's habit of confiscating videos and losing them?


we could start a thread here specifically for that, like we have the 'evidence of convention shenanigans' thread in Ron Paul' Grassroots.  Maybe we should gather them in H/T and then move them here selectively?  Or what?

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> we could start a thread here specifically for that, like we have the 'evidence of convention shenanigans' thread in Ron Paul' Grassroots.  Maybe we should gather them in H/T and then move them here selectively?  Or what?


Is it practical to use P2P technology / torrents? So there's no incentive for JBT's to confiscate your servers? I'm not up on technology, but P2P seems to be the only defense against cover-ups.

----------


## JK/SEA

From a facebook post: 

''If you are trying to call to inquire about Adam's status at the Federal facility in Pennsylvania - you need to have his inmate ID number, or you will wait on hold forever, and then they will not talk to you. The number is: 215-521-4000 (wait a few seconds, then press 0). They will ask for his inmate ID, which is 69371-066. If you don't have that number, they will refer you to the WRONG website to obtain it. It is a stalling mechanism.''

----------


## affa

> You made the personal attack on anyone here who is a teacher or scientist, try to comprehend that.


Well, you're not talking to me but...
you're obviously unaware of what a personal attack is, then.
A personal attack is a direct attack on an individual.    If you disparage a collective group (ie, teachers) you are not making a personal attack on every single teacher in existence.  In fact, it generally goes without saying that there are exceptions.   People that don't like cops still know that here and there exist really good ones trying hard to be solid and just... but believe it's the exception, not the rule.

'You're ugly' is a personal attack.
'Public school teachers generally suck' is not a personal attack on individual public school teachers.

As for the snipped bit about PaulConventionWV -- I'm not seeing it.  he seems alright in his conversation to me.  At least, i haven't seen him attack you, but i ahave seen you attack him.  I could have missed a post, though.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Looks like FEMA camp or Guantanamo for Adam...


I was joking.

----------


## economics102

> I always knew Adam was talented.
> 
> But I saw that grip on the microphone, he wasn't letting that go for a moment.


It occurred to me, a good wireless microphone like the one Adam was holding, those aren't cheap. One reason he might have resisted dropping it was not wanting to damage whoever's audio equipment it was.

----------


## Barrex

> It occurred to me, a good wireless microphone like the one Adam was holding, those aren't cheap. One reason he might have resisted dropping it was not wanting to damage whoever's audio equipment it was.


Holding microphone, ice-cream, flowers etc. is not resisting... especially since they didnt tell him to drop it. 

shenanigans...


Sad.

----------


## Aratus

Luv... when the California budget and the gov't went bankrupt on THAH ARNOLD as of late,
and we saw tent cities spring up in a manner like those lived in by yesteryear's poor Okies,
THAH ARNOLD lived thru something that had its parallelism to what HERBERT HOOVER had.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

New court document pertaining to bail: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...cPZmQJ9Kac/pub

----------


## asurfaholic

This isn't even about weed!

This is about government swooping in, pressing false charges, And holding without bail a peaceful protester. 

Whether you like Adam or not, this should bug the $#@! out of every single one of us. 

But yet there are those among us who celebrate Adams incarceration.

----------


## ninepointfive

> This isn't even about weed!


It kindof is, for the reason they're still holding him.




> But yet there are those among us who celebrate Adams incarceration.


yes, and they are in every thread discrediting adam and causing division. Namecalling etc.....  too bad.

----------


## John F Kennedy III



----------


## nbruno322

Adam Kokesh deserves major props in my book. He is standing up for the principles of liberty and not afraid to get arrested and charged with bogus crimes. It is people like him that well help change to happen. It is sort of like Rosa Parks being arrested for sitting in the "wrong" section of the bus.  

Let us hope that this episode gives us all the courage to redouble our efforts. We should all be willing to stick our necks out at least a little bit in order to stand for the principles of liberty.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ... they are in every thread discrediting adam and causing division. Namecalling etc.....  too bad.


I don't imagine those shills have accomplished anything besides wasting their employer's money.

----------


## ninepointfive

> I don't imagine those shills have accomplished anything besides wasting their employer's money.


and keeping the threads bumped.

----------


## Aratus

i'm bumping my new  thread until he's out on bail

----------


## Aratus

I'm trying to do something  sorta semi~pro!active

I've created a gonzo FREE ADAM KOKESH thread...

I'm hoping he is allowed to be out on bail a.s.a.p

----------


## Aratus

i feel its the upcoming JULY marches in d.c on the 3rd + 4th that had an "arm"
of the Federal gov't trying to smite poor Adam Kokesh into the pavement totally.
y'all know the oval office has had a phone line easily since the days of Bill McKinley.
y'all know LBJ spent half his presidency on the phone lines an' i do not exaggerate.
i had assumed our sitting potus was more fax, internet + blackberry than LBJ!!!

----------


## kathy88

Wow. I'm steamed. I just read that complaint. What a PUSSY that fed is. Waaa he grabbed my arm. So let's charge him with a felony that could send him to jail for 10 years. Why don't they just $#@!ing rename it contempt of cop and get it over with. Holy $#@! I'm pissed.

----------


## Aratus

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

----------


## Aratus

Luv... could we take the whole marijuana debate to the FREEDOM LIVING forum as we try to see that ADAM K. gets out 
on bail and hires a good attorney?  his civil rights that are more closer to HABEAS CORPUS than they are his presumed
CANNABIS intake or not are more to the point of this. i think the LAPD once jumped Rodney King in an ungodly manner.

----------


## sailingaway

> Is it practical to use P2P technology / torrents? So there's no incentive for JBT's to confiscate your servers? I'm not up on technology, but P2P seems to be the only defense against cover-ups.


I haven't any idea what you are talking about. A game system?  Not techy, sorry. 

I don't think we'd have anything anyone else didn't have. We will just be collecting them in one place for organized review.

----------


## sailingaway

> Luv... could we take the marijuana debate to the FREEDOM LIVING forum as we try to see that ADAM gets out on bail and hires a good attorney?


good idea, it will take a while to split out that discussion but I'll put a couple in there, and then I'll add to it as I go through the thread so people can continue that side discussion there.

----------


## QuickZ06

> You said that people, while high, aren't good for anything.
> 
> How about instead of us trying to give all our examples to disprove your statement, you actually provide some well-founded evidence for your claim.


Sorry LE!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## phill4paul

> Wow. I'm steamed. I just read that complaint. What a PUSSY that fed is. Waaa he grabbed my arm. So let's charge him with a felony that could send him to jail for 10 years. Why don't they just $#@!ing rename it contempt of cop and get it over with. Holy $#@! I'm pissed.


  Certainly. There was a permit for the protest. Adam was not smoking.. The fedcoats went straight for him. Theye knew what theye were doing. Theye know that he does not meekly submit however his resistance is passive in nature. They will probably try to get him to plea as long as he accepts that he won't protest for a set time period to quash the march. This, they will find, Adam will not do.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> I haven't any idea what you are talking about. A game system?  Not techy, sorry. 
> 
> I don't think we'd have anything anyone else didn't have. We will just be collecting them in one place for organized review.


Yeah you are right. In the short-term, for all practical purposes.

I was just thinking that in the long-term, it might behoove liberty-minded people to make greater use of P2P networks for storing any data the government has an interest in disappearing. You can't wipe out P2P data by confiscating a single server. But it needs to be something you don't need a PhD to operate. I'm not up on the technology right now. Someone recommended this to me,

http://labs.bittorrent.com/experiments/sync.html

but I haven't read through it yet.

----------


## sailingaway

> I can answer that. You see, potheads are notoriously lazy and irresponsible. If they grant bail, Adam might get himself so high while sitting on his couch at home that he forgets to show up for his next court date.
> 
> *And he'll be high as a kite. So you see, he's a flight risk*.


now, that pun, I could see you being arrested for...

----------


## Aratus

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Sailingaway again!

----------


## american.swan

> MLK was asking for it too I suppose.


I wonder how many people were skeptical of MLK. 
Kokesh should NOT say anything about MLK, but if others labeled him the next MLK, it might help our overall cause.  Give the causes more media attention.

----------


## sailingaway

> Do you live in a small town?  Because I do, and I can tell you officers enforce just as many unconstitutional laws here and haven't a clue what the Constitution is about.  It's not even debatable that virtually all police enforce unconstitutional laws.  The system operates this way all over the country, not just in urban areas.  They're there to generate revenue, and believe me, every small town needs revenue.  Most kids who want to be police want to be police because of the propaganda.  I thought it was cool once, but I grew out of it.  The only people who take that kind of job now, even if they are good-intentioned, end up enforcing unconstitional laws.  You seem to think that good intentions excuses evil behavior, and with that I vehemently disagree.


No, I just require evidence of the evil behavior.

----------


## JK/SEA

4,607 going to march as of 2:30pm pacific time.

----------


## sailingaway

> What reason? Did the people who banned Kokesh publish their reasons, so the rest of us can evaluate them for ourselves?


No, it is just that every single person on this forum was 100% on board with every decision -- particularly late in the campaign decision - - campaign staff made.  At least, I assume that is why an appeal to this authority is tendered as potentially persuasive.

----------


## torchbearer

> *From a facebook post: 
> 
> ''If you are trying to call to inquire about Adam's status at the Federal facility in Pennsylvania - you need to have his inmate ID number, or you will wait on hold forever, and then they will not talk to you. The number is: 215-521-4000 (wait a few seconds, then press 0). They will ask for his inmate ID, which is 69371-066. If you don't have that number, they will refer you to the WRONG website to obtain it. It is a stalling mechanism*.''


kinda important

----------


## Root

http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/05/20/c...t-is-arrested/

----------


## Lucille

> http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/05/20/c...t-is-arrested/





> Many in the libertarian movement have caustically criticized Kokesh for his brazenness. Granted, a group of armed libertarians meeting up with DC police squads could be very dangerous, despite promises to remain peaceful. But most of the criticism Ive seen hurled at Kokesh seems more about criticizing civil disobedience and activism in general, concerned it will reflect poorly on their deferential image. Too many want to regulate the behavior of libertarians and keep things strictly to suits, ties, academic seminars, and writing pedantic policy papers barely anyone will read  as if thats the only acceptable or productive way to push libertarian ideas.


Ain't that the truth.




> ...You can also see from the several videos taken at the scene that Kokesh did not resist arrest, and instead put his hands up and stood straight while several officers man-handled him.
> 
> According to freeadam.net Kokesh is being charged with grabbing an officers arm after being pushed  a felony assault. The video doesnt show any evidence of that allegation, but either way, the arrest is an affront to liberty.
> 
> As Anthony Gregory writes today, Resisting arrest is a troubling derivative crime, whereby the state can basically push you around, and if you even react naturally (or the state says you did), it can haul you away. Putting aside problems of arrest, jailing, and the state itself, there should be no crime of resisting arrest in a semi-free society. Either you committed a violation of someones rights or you did not. If you did not, you have a moral right to resist.
> 
> [...] what we have here is a peaceful activist, a non-violent resister, and hes been thrown in jail not for being harmful to anybodys person or property, but for being disobedient in the face of unjust laws. The latter is a crime only to those with authoritarian inclinations and a calm respect for the police state.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Political prisoner.

----------


## DaninPA

*Adam Kokesh is currently being held at:

FEDERAL DETENTION CENTER
700 ARCH STREET
PHILADELPHIA, PA 19106*

Open Carry is legal in PA. Including long guns.  

The DC protesters might want to change their destination.

----------


## angelatc

> No, it is just that every single person on this forum was 100% on board with every decision -- particularly late in the campaign decision - - campaign staff made.  At least, I assume that is why an appeal to this authority is tendered as potentially persuasive.


You're being sarcastic, right?

And I seem to recall that Benton's power plays started in Iowa, not at the end of the campaign.

----------


## speciallyblend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DprFYMvWXLo<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DprFYMvWXLo">

----------


## brandon

> *Adam Kokesh is currently being held at:
> 
> FEDERAL DETENTION CENTER
> 700 ARCH STREET
> PHILADELPHIA, PA 19106*
> 
> Open Carry is legal in PA. Including long guns.  
> 
> The DC protesters might want to change their destination.


It's not legal in Philly.

----------


## torchbearer

> It's not legal in Philly.


2nd amendment free zone?

----------


## Todd

> *Adam Kokesh is currently being held at:
> 
> FEDERAL DETENTION CENTER
> 700 ARCH STREET
> PHILADELPHIA, PA 19106*
> 
> Open Carry is legal in PA. Including long guns.  
> 
> The DC protesters might want to change their destination.



+1

----------


## Vessol

First Rich Paul getting a life sentence for selling marijuana and now Adam Kokesh getting potentially 8+ years for "resisting" arrest. $#@!ing hell..

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> No bail, court Thursday. Claimed a "possibility of a history of excessive drug use" 
> 
> Josie Harris, who was in court today:


Excessive drug use? What drugs? Pot or prescription drugs? Are they trying to make it a test case for background checks too? Prescription SSRI? No guns for you!

----------


## mac_hine

How to spot a libertarian d-bag...

- Talks about hurting the movement.

That's it for now folks. #freekokesh

----------


## Root



----------


## Anti Federalist

I'll contribute to a legal defense fund as soon as it's set up.

This is "Free Roger Pion" x 1000

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

We need to go to PA and protest this bull$#@!.
By we I mean all of you, while I just make crappy comments online

----------


## angelatc

> Wow. I'm steamed. I just read that complaint. What a PUSSY that fed is. Waaa he grabbed my arm. So let's charge him with a felony that could send him to jail for 10 years. Why don't they just $#@!ing rename it contempt of cop and get it over with. Holy $#@! I'm pissed.


They probably don't care about jail as much as they care about prohibiting him from owning firearms.

----------


## WM_in_MO

I'd go to PA if I could. But by the time I'll be free'd up It will be Friday

----------


## CPUd

If he does get bail, and it's fairly certain he will take it all the way to trial, he's not exactly going to be free to do whatever he wants during that time.  The judge could order travel restrictions, piss tests, etc. as a condition of bail.

----------


## green73

> How to spot a libertarian d-bag...
> 
> - Talks about hurting the movement.
> 
> That's it for now folks. #freekokesh


no $#@!

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

i'm sure they'll jail him for 1 month and 15 days

----------


## RickyJ

When they arrested him how come they didn't cuff him before taking him away like they did the other speaker?

----------


## Root

> When they arrested him how come they didn't cuff him before taking him away like they did the other speaker?


Because when they arrested him, they didn't know what they were arresting him for?

----------


## Barrex

> I'll contribute to a legal defense fund as soon as it's set up.
> 
> This is "Free Roger Pion" x 1000


Yea what happened with him?

----------


## Lucille

> I'll contribute to a legal defense fund as soon as it's set up.
> 
> This is "Free Roger Pion" x 1000


Me too. 




> Yea what happened with him?


Vermont resident Roger Pion, who crushed 6 police cruisers with tractor, ruled not competent for trial
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...05#post5034105

----------


## amy31416

> They probably don't care about jail as much as they care about prohibiting him from owning firearms.


And subsequently getting him for a "real" illegal act so they can lock him up for good.

He's smart to not talk. I rule nothing out in what's really going on though.

----------


## MrTudo

He'll lose his right to carry while this goes to trial? If this goes to trial?

The way this works you see is it's a felony and it's federal. You take it to trial and lose and you will get the max. Federal time means you'll do more of that time than you would if it's state time. If you take a plea then you also will lose your rights and for a period of years he'll have some jerk off who can't figure out how to be a productive human being, now a probation officer will essentially invade ak's privacy when and where he chooses so yes that also means surprise piss tests etc and if the piss test doesn't reveal anything then surely the fking hair test will and then a violation occurs and that's usually followed by some time. How much time I don't know but time and remember, when you are in? You stay in until you are out. Anyone who did time knows what that means.

I would be too candid for this place so let me just leave it with ak is in deep trouble.

I'm a little confused though, when a police arrests you on a federal charge like this, is that arrest automatic, meaning is that arrest automatically accepted by the courts or does a judge have to accept it? I realize this may seem like a stupid question, pardon me if this is the case however it just seems over the top here. This guy is a nobody. Nobody. A gnat fly. To actually have what appears that these "police" were locked on ak from the start just seems bizarre. Not trying to insult the guy but who the heck is adam kokesh to anybody? Really. 

So this just gets more and more bizarre however my prediction is it continues down this path for many years to come. Look how few can even define liberty much less be willing to really go the extra mile to attain it for themselves much less for the masses. Can't even identify it, people flock to whoever "seems" to be on their side . This kind of $#@! has been going on for a long time.

----------


## RickyJ

> Because when they arrested him, they didn't know what they were arresting him for?


It just seems odd to me. When they arrest someone protocol is they cuff them first, then take them away.

----------


## JK/SEA

Looks like the Liberty movement potentially has themselves an honest to God martyr. 

So be it. 

This will not be forgotten. 

There is an old tradition in battlefield etiqutte and honor. If the flag bearer falls, someone else picks up the flag and keeps marching...

----------


## CPUd

> He'll lose his right to carry while this goes to trial? If this goes to trial?
> 
> The way this works you see is it's a felony and it's federal. You take it to trial and lose and you will get the max. Federal time means you'll do more of that time than you would if it's state time. If you take a plea then you also will lose your rights and for a period of years he'll have some jerk off who can't figure out how to be a productive human being, now a probation officer will essentially invade ak's privacy when and where he chooses so yes that also means surprise piss tests etc and if the piss test doesn't reveal anything then surely the fking hair test will and then a violation occurs and that's usually followed by some time. How much time I don't know but time and remember, when you are in? You stay in until you are out. Anyone who did time knows what that means.
> 
> I would be too candid for this place so let me just leave it with ak is in deep trouble.
> 
> I'm a little confused though, when a police arrests you on a federal charge like this, is that arrest automatic, meaning is that arrest automatically accepted by the courts or does a judge have to accept it? I realize this may seem like a stupid question, pardon me if this is the case however it just seems over the top here. This guy is a nobody. Nobody. A gnat fly. To actually have what appears that these "police" were locked on ak from the start just seems bizarre. *Not trying to insult the guy but who the heck is adam kokesh to anybody?* Really. 
> 
> So this just gets more and more bizarre however my prediction is it continues down this path for many years to come. Look how few can even define liberty much less be willing to really go the extra mile to attain it for themselves much less for the masses. Can't even identify it, people flock to whoever "seems" to be on their side . This kind of $#@! has been going on for a long time.


It may have been him being on Fox News earlier calling the DC Chief a criminal that caught their attention, and they wanted to show up and give him a proper welcome to Philly.   But they also knew ahead of time what was going to happen at that rally.  It could just be that he was one of the 3 who had the mic, and those guys got keyed on as soon as they gave the word to light up.

Either way, they are going to make it where if he shows up in DC, they are gonna make him a fugitive- his life will never be the same, even if he wins this case.

----------


## QueenB4Liberty

Poor Adam.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Poor Adam.


Poor all of us...

----------


## Anti Federalist

Nor have I forgotten the many that have gone before, that, while never setting out to be martyrs, nevertheless, ended up one.




> Looks like the Liberty movement potentially has themselves an honest to God martyr. 
> 
> So be it. 
> 
> This will not be forgotten. 
> 
> There is an old tradition in battlefield etiqutte and honor. If the flag bearer falls, someone else picks up the flag and keeps marching...

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

deleted

----------


## JK/SEA

> Once a federal complaint is filed against you, you are in big trouble, unless you have millions for lawyers.


any god damn lawyer with a brain can make this a 'frivilous' case and get it tossed. This potentially could go sideways against the FEDS, especially if this goes viral and hits the mainstream media. The spin could be..''activist planning a march 7/4 arrested on bogus charges,'' and the appearence of harassment could be floated...

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> ... I'm a little confused though, when a police arrests you on a federal charge like this, is that arrest automatic, meaning is that arrest automatically accepted by the courts or does a judge have to accept it?


Under FRCrimP 5.1, he has the right to a prompt "preliminary hearing" before a judge to determine whether there's probable cause to continue the case. If Philadelphia is like southern Arizona, he'll be denied that right through some slight-of-hand where a pretend defense lawyer signs a waiver (see also this and this), falsely claiming Kokesh consented to it.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> any god damn lawyer with a brain can make this a 'frivilous' case and get it tossed.


Unless his brain tells him it's more profitable to sell out his client.

----------


## paulbot24

> Under FRCrimP 5.1, he has the right to a prompt "preliminary hearing" before a judge to determine whether there's probable cause to continue the case. If Philadelphia is like southern Arizona, he'll be denied that right through some slight-of-hand where a pretend defense lawyer signs a waiver (see also this), falsely claiming Kokesh consented to it.


And then when you ask to see it, they say they can't find it.......You say that like you speak from experience......Nahh.....

----------


## Brian4Liberty

So let's summarize: 

- The IRS/FBI/ATF is being used for harassment and intimidation of political speech.
- The Obama/Holder Justice Department is illegally spying on the media.
- An internet blogger and protester is being held without bail on trumped up charges by the Federal Government.

There's no doubt that Adam is a now political prisoner. Has anyone contacted Amnesty International?

There's a reason that Obama, Immelt and friends all love communist/corporatist China. Political speech must be crushed.

----------


## Aratus

> 


neat photoshop!  its about cause and effect! they gotta free adam kokesh!

----------


## tmg19103

These are the most blatant, trumped up charges imaginable.

Why? We all know - the DC march. Why the mention of possible drug use? Corrupt feds are covering all their bases.

Under federal law:

Indictment or Information for a Felony - This person (indicted for a felony or has a felony information filed against him) has restrictions placed on his firearms activity. He may continue to lawfully possess the firearms and ammunition he already has, but may not ship or take them across State lines and may not acquire more firearms or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922

DC law may even have a law that anyone under indictment for a felony may not own or possess a firearm at all.

Under federal law you may not own or possess a firearm if you are a:

Drug user or addict.

----------


## Aratus

double whammy. that technicality has high odds of alex jones stepping in
and becoming semi~responsible as a spokesman for the 5000 person march.

----------


## Root

> neat photoshop!  its about cause and effect! they gotta free adam kokesh!


For the record, it's not my work. See something, share something.

----------


## ninepointfive

> For the record, it's not my work. See something, share something.


wow - that's gold. if i had some video editing skills, this would be something to devote some time too.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> So let's summarize: 
> 
> - The IRS/FBI/ATF is being used for harassment and intimidation of political speech.
> - The Obama/Holder Justice Department is illegally spying on the media.
> - An internet blogger and protester is being held without bail on trumped up charges by the Federal Government.


Heh. Seems you've forgotten something. 
The Coming War Against Personal Photography and Video

Problem.Reaction.Solution.

----------


## Weston White

Alright, here are my own notes and observations thus far:

Prior to him “assaulting” the law enforcement, there had yet been any justifiable reason established for the arresting of him then, correct?  Thereby, he had every right to use whatever reasonable degree of resistance against the perpetrator—even if they are an officer of the law—to question, flee, assault, batter, etc.  Historically, the courts have established as much.

It is not resisting arrest when there was no legal basis for the making of the arrest, but is avoiding falling victim to a false arrest and subsequent false imprisonment (or also unlawful detainment or arrest).

The law enforcement swooped in from his rear without making announcements, without clearly stating their intentions, without providing him with any time to comply; instead they just simply grabbed him while he was talking to an audience, what did they expect?

Adam was clearly holding a microphone in his one hand, leaving him with one free hand, he was intentionally pulled off balance by law enforcement; hence, it is a natural human reaction to grab for something to regain one’s balance.

While he might have grabbed the law enforcement officer’s arm, it would need to be established that his intention was to inflict harm or injury or the threat of harm or injury upon the law enforcement officer.  Clearly, from the video footage, from Adam’s physical composure, and from Adam’s own words during the time of the incident that was not at all with the case, that was not at all his intention.  It is evident that it was Adam’s intention to simply go along with the arrest, while informing the crowd what blatant tyranny looked like, giving them a play-by-play.

It is clear that if Adam truly desired to he could have taken those weakly law enforcement “men” down—with overpowering ease.  Adam did no such thing.  Clearly, he complied, permitting them to hold his weight and drag him backwards through the grass from the stage.  Really only holding an officer’s arm for support or balance.  To wit, that officer did not seem to be bothered or in fear of his life to any degree, whatsoever.

Clearly, they were hoping to arrest Adam and search him, in order to discover illegal materials on his person and then use that discovery as the basis (after the fact) to charge him with criminal activity, while justifying their false arrest; yet when that did not turn out to be the case, apparently, they changed it all up to go with their old failsafe: resisting arrest/assaulting law enforcement personnel.

In my searching, I was unable to locate anything really covering what ‘forcible assault’ covers, though did locate a definition of ‘criminal assault’, which is likely the very same thing (included below from Cornell Law).

As per the statute at most he is looking at the ‘simple assault’ charge, which is not more than a 1-year penalty.


*18 USC § 111 - Assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain officers or employees*

(a) In General.— Whoever— 
(1) forcibly assaults, resists, opposes, impedes, intimidates, or interferes with any person designated in section 1114 of this title while engaged in or on account of the performance of official duties; or 
(2) forcibly assaults or intimidates any person who formerly served as a person designated in section 1114 on account of the performance of official duties during such person’s term of service, 
shall, where the acts in violation of this section constitute only simple assault, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, and where such acts involve physical contact with the victim of that assault or the intent to commit another felony, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. 
…
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/111


*‘criminal assault’ as defined by Cornell’s Legal Website:*

A threat or physical act that creates a reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact with one's person — involving an additional, aggravating factor, such as the intent to inflict serious bodily injury or the use of a dangerous weapon.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/aggravated_assault

----------


## phill4paul

> Alright, here are my own notes and observations thus far:


  Seems a good summary.

----------


## sailingaway

I'm assuming 'impeding' can't be de minimus though, or it is ludicrous.

----------


## bolil

Consider Kokesh's fate a lesson.  They will make an example of him, as harsh an example as they can.  He might even be killed in prison.  This is all too much to bear right now, and a $#@!ing tornado ate Oklahoma.

----------


## sailingaway

AVTM twitter site just tweeted this link: http://www.freeadamkokesh.com/

----------


## Natural Citizen

Follow up to my last post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOQ-...hsnE1Q&index=3

----------


## bolil

Furthermore, they can just say the assault took place after they had kokesh out of camera range... note they did not cuff him as they led him off.  Perhaps this was break of SOP was deliberate.  They might even release pictures of some beat to hell cop... but bruises are not fingerprints, and I know you.

I hope this quashes the Kokesh is a provocateur talk.  The march Kokesh planned must have them scared, real scared, but why?  Why would they be scared of 5-10 k people walking across a bridge peaceably?  The first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...or prohibiting the freedom of speech...or the right of the people peacably to assemble and to redress the gov for a redress of grievances."  If peaceful people cannot also be armed, then what does that make the cops?

----------


## Weston White

Isnt it disparaging (and disheartening) that the superiority of raw empowerment granted to governmental officials (i.e., their rights) always seems to take precedence over even the most core rights of the people?  With that being stated I thought it interesting to include several federal laws that are intended to protect _We the People_ from tyranny in government:


5 USC § 702 - Right of review

5 USC § 3331 - Oath of office

18 USC § 4 - Misprision of felony

18 USC § 241 - Conspiracy against rights

18 USC § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law

18 USC § 872 - Extortion by officers or employees of the United States

18 USC § 876(d) - Mailing threatening communications

18 USC § 1001(a) - Statements or entries generally

18 USC § 1018 - Official certificates or writings

18 USC § 1512(b),(c),(d),(k) - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant

18 USC § 1621 - Perjury generally

18 USC § 1622 - Subornation of perjury

18 USC § 1918 - Disloyalty and asserting the right to strike against the Government
5 USC § 7311 - Loyalty and striking

42 USC § 1983

5 CFR § 2635.101

31 CFR § 0.102(a),(b),(c)

----------


## torchbearer

> Isn’t it disparaging (and disheartening) that the superiority of raw empowerment granted to governmental officials (i.e., their “rights”) always seems to take precedence over even the most core rights of the people?  With that being stated I thought it interesting to include several federal laws that are intended to protect _We the People_ from tyranny in government:
> 
> 
> 5 USC § 702 - Right of review
> 
> 5 USC § 3331 - Oath of office
> 
> 18 USC § 4 - Misprision of felony
> 
> ...


how do you file charges against the government?

----------


## bolil

The march needs to go ahead as planned.  There isn't much time.  $#@!ing mount doom is spewing crimson like the elusive white whale.

----------


## Weston White

> how do you file charges against the government?


As to criminal complaints, you would need to file with the USDOJ at the federal level (e.g., http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/vr/complaint.html or in person at thour local federal courthouse), although for civil complaints you either need to first exhaust administrative due process (dependent upon the legislative procedures crafted for whatever bureaucracy) and then/or file a complaint in a federal district court or the U.S. Court of Federal Claims or its other specialty trail courts.  Also in certain cases where _concurrent jurisdiction_ is involved you may file in either state courts or federal courts (including for multi-state _diversity jurisdiction_).

As with all criminal charges it is up to prosecutors (government attorneys) to seek meaningful justice; and for the parties that have a _cause of action_ to seek remedy through the filing of an action in the civil courts (e.g., the _O.J. Simpson_ murder case).

----------


## NERVE

honestly I think this is the best thing that could have happened to adam. we all go around screeming police state blah blah blah while few listen. then you have a video show up online of yourself being arrested for talking, and are charged for resisting arrest, when it is obviouse to anyone with eyes that he wasn't. Ron paul is always talking about, bblowback, well this is blowback in our country. more people will attend on july 4tth because of this. look at what happened when defdist had their files pulled off their website by the government, people all over are still seeding the crap out it, just as a middle finger to the powers that be.

----------


## economics102

> honestly I think this is the best thing that could have happened to adam. we all go around screeming police state blah blah blah while few listen. then you have a video show up online of yourself being arrested for talking, and are charged for resisting arrest, when it is obviouse to anyone with eyes that he wasn't. Ron paul is always talking about, bblowback, well this is blowback in our country. more people will attend on july 4tth because of this. look at what happened when defdist had their files pulled off their website by the government, people all over are still seeding the crap out it, just as a middle finger to the powers that be.


Indeed. Only downside is I'm afraid this is going to leave Alex Jones as the face of the march. Kokesh would have been the perfect person to lead, because he's so well-spoken and he's a veteran. It would have gotten people's attention, as he planned. If Alex Jones leads...people already think AJ is crazy, especially after his Piers Morgan interview.

Hate to say it but what might need to happen is some other high-profile leader of liberty needs to step up to fill Adam's shoes before AJ does.

----------


## bolil

> Indeed. Only downside is I'm afraid this is going to leave Alex Jones as the face of the march. Kokesh would have been the perfect person to lead, because he's so well-spoken and he's a veteran. It would have gotten people's attention, as he planned. If Alex Jones leads...people already think AJ is crazy, especially after his Piers Morgan interview.
> 
> Hate to say it but what might need to happen is some other high-profile leader of liberty needs to step up to fill Adam's shoes before AJ does.


NOBP... god, wouldn't that be the ticket.

Im still riding my ass to Virginia for this.

----------


## Weston White

> Indeed. Only downside is I'm afraid this is going to leave Alex Jones as the face of the march. Kokesh would have been the perfect person to lead, because he's so well-spoken and he's a veteran. It would have gotten people's attention, as he planned. If Alex Jones leads...people already think AJ is crazy, especially after his Piers Morgan interview.
> 
> Hate to say it but what might need to happen is some other high-profile leader of liberty needs to step up to fill Adam's shoes before AJ does.


Stewart Rhodes, but I don't even think Oathkeepers has given this event a single mention on their Website, ironically enough

----------


## sailingaway

> Stewart Rhodes, but I don't even think Oathkeepers has given this event a single mention on their Website, ironically enough


An armed march where guns are illegal can be a way to make a statement, but it can also not be the way others want to make a statement.  Each person has their own way of doing things, and Stewart Rhodes definitely is doing things.

----------


## phill4paul

> Indeed. Only downside is I'm afraid this is going to leave Alex Jones as the face of the march. Kokesh would have been the perfect person to lead, because he's so well-spoken and he's a veteran. It would have gotten people's attention, as he planned. If Alex Jones leads...people already think AJ is crazy, especially after his Piers Morgan interview.
> 
> Hate to say it but what might need to happen is some other high-profile leader of liberty needs to step up to fill Adam's shoes before AJ does.


  Who wouldn't be considered crazy to a march on such as D.C.? Ron Paul could lead it and there would be any number of "bat $#@! crazy" detractors. In fact it would fracture this forum beyond repair if he did.

----------


## bolil

Adam is in big $#@!ing trouble, and I don't know how to help or where to start (I've ideas not meant for polite company such as this).  I promise you all that though, he is up $#@!s creek with a frivolous charge for a paddle.  His forums on AVTM are suspiciously vapid.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> honestly I think this is the best thing that could have happened to adam. we all go around screeming police state blah blah blah while few listen. then you have a video show up online of yourself being arrested for talking, and are charged for resisting arrest, when it is obviouse to anyone with eyes that he wasn't. Ron paul is always talking about, bblowback, well this is blowback in our country. more people will attend on july 4tth because of this. look at what happened when defdist had their files pulled off their website by the government, people all over are still seeding the crap out it, just as a middle finger to the powers that be.



Depends on how it plays out. He could be released this week, he could be released July 5 or he could be executed before we ever see him again.

----------


## libertyjam

linked on the Carol Paul Fan Page

----------


## RickyJ

> Furthermore, they can just say the assault took place after they had kokesh out of camera range... note they did not cuff him as they led him off.  Perhaps this was break of SOP was deliberate.  They might even release pictures of some beat to hell cop... but bruises are not fingerprints, and I know you.
> 
> I hope this quashes the Kokesh is a provocateur talk.  The march Kokesh planned must have them scared, real scared, but why?  Why would they be scared of 5-10 k people walking across a bridge peaceably?  The first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...or prohibiting the freedom of speech...or the right of the people peacably to assemble and to redress the gov for a redress of grievances." * If peaceful people cannot also be armed, then what does that make the cops?*


The cops certainly aren't peaceful. Infringing people's right to bear arms is against the Constitution everywhere in the USA. Criminals will not go by any gun ban law anyway. Non-criminals have the right to protect themselves from criminals with guns with their own Constitutionally protected right to have and carry a gun, otherwise this country will lose all its rights fast. The government will become much more tyrannical if the people they govern do not have the ability to protect themselves from abuses of their power.

----------


## bolil

> Depends on how it plays out. He could be released this week, he could be released July 5 or he could be executed before we ever see him again.


Nah, they would not trump up the charges if release was an option.  They know better than to go for a plea via this tactic, with him anyways.  Adam is now alone, for all intents and purposes, in a strange and hostile place... I think he will be okay.  This could be the beginning of TSHTF, god speed if it is.  The best option is to continue with the march, it is what Adam would want and is more important than ever.  It would be saying, "Hey, you with the handcuffs, $#@! you.  We have the right."

Even if we attendees wind up in prison, hopefully it will wake up more of the right kind of people.  Making a pyrrhic victory for TPTB.

The only question in my head is what if... what if this is theater.  Being a plant proclaiming prick, I need to consider it.  Having done so, even in a cursory fashion, I believe Adam to be ingenuous and this to be a very, very, bad thing.

Theye walked into a crowd, kidnapped a human being, and put him in a cage.  A human who has been very outspoken in his criticisms of the regime and who at the time was not even violating the most ridiculous of theire 'laws'.

----------


## economics102

It's nice how if a citizen claims a police officer assaulted them, the justice system turns a deaf ear unless there is overwhelming video evidence (and sometimes even in spite of such evidence). Yet when a police officer claims to be assaulted by a citizen, the mere afidavit of the officer is sufficient proof, even in spite of video evidence that casts strong doubt on the claim.

There's no reason in this day and age that police shouldn't be required to carry video recorders on them.

----------


## devil21

> Adam is in big $#@!ing trouble, and I don't know how to help or where to start (I've ideas not meant for polite company such as this).  I promise you all that though, he is up $#@!s creek with a frivolous charge for a paddle.  His forums on AVTM are suspiciously vapid.


stop trolling

----------


## phill4paul

> It's nice how if a citizen claims a police officer assaulted them, the justice system turns a deaf ear unless there is overwhelming video evidence (and sometimes even in spite of such evidence). Yet when a police officer claims to be assaulted by a citizen, the mere afidavit of the officer is sufficient proof, even in spite of video evidence that casts strong doubt on the claim.
> 
> *There's no reason in this day and age that police shouldn't be required to carry video recorders on them.*


  But, doncha know we need drones everywhere? Amazing how many police cams end up malfunctioning at the crucial time.

----------


## economics102

> But, doncha know we need drones everywhere? Amazing how many police cams end up malfunctioning at the crucial time.


Evidence-gathering is part of the job of a police officer. Especially when you see these situations where there's like 10 cops huddled around one suspect, is it really that unreasonable to expect one of them might *gather evidence* by filming the situation?

But yeah, there needs to be liike a badge-cam or something. Because the problem is the cops are only going to voluntarily submit video evidence they gather if it doesn't incriminate them.

----------


## damiengwa

Clearly they overplayed their hand.  They began to believe the propaganda of their own hired dis-info posters on msg boards.  They thought that he would buckle and take a plea and show himself to be a pussy.  But he's going full MLK here girls and boys.  Refusing to process, not speaking in court.  He refuses to legitimize at all what they've done.

ADAM KOKESH IS THE ROSA PARKS OF OUR TIME!!!

If you disagree with that, flush out your head-gear.  He is a living legend!

----------


## damiengwa

Forget whether he struggled or "touched" an officers hands.  They had no right to to come up from behind and grab him.  They could have approached him, and if htey wanted to arrest for some kind of minor violation like holding a rally without that precious permission slip they could have just asked him to turn around and put his hands on his head.  No, they treated him like a violent thug, because they project their own evil onto any one who opposes them.

----------


## phill4paul

> Evidence-gathering is part of the job of a police officer. Especially when you see these situations where there's like 10 cops huddled around one suspect, is it really that unreasonable to expect one of them might *gather evidence* by filming the situation?
> 
> But yeah, there needs to be liike a badge-cam or something. *Because the problem is the cops are only going to voluntarily submit video evidence they gather if it doesn't incriminate them*.


  Kinda my point.

----------


## anaconda

Why is Adam in _federal_ court?

And how does one get charged with "resisting arrest" if they don't charge that individual with a crime that they were allegedly arresting them for?

----------


## phill4paul

> Why is Adam in _federal_ court?


  Protest was made on federal park grounds. Permit was attained.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Jane Fonda ... was processed ... for ... her alleged kicking of a local cop.... That charge, later dropped....


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshot...e-fonda-1170-0




> Zsa Zsa Gabor ... found ... guilty of slapping an officer.... sentenced to 72 hours in jail, 120 hours of community service, and ordered her to pay court costs ($13,000)


http://www.mugshots.net/zsa_zsa_gabor/

----------


## damiengwa

> ...He got banned from all Ron Paul events for a reason.


Which is exactly why Paul endorsed him a few years later when he ran for congress.  Because he was such a persona-non-grata, right?

Oh how would you know, you regs in 8/11, were you there in 08?

RP Endorsement:
http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...okesh-Congress

----------


## RickyJ

> Ever watch him talk? He's a freaking space cadet and his actions are erratic at very best. He got banned from all Ron Paul events for a reason.


That reason was Jesse Benton, the guy that should have never been associated with the Ron Paul campaign to start with.

----------


## RickyJ

> Which is exactly why Paul endorsed him a few years later when he ran for congress.  Because he was such a persona-non-grata, right?
> 
> Oh, buy how would you know, you regs in 8/11, were you there in 08?
> 
> http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...okesh-Congress


I was there on the Capitol lawn in 2008 when Kokesh made his very inspirational speech. Heck, he had the crowd almost ready to storm the Capitol and take back our country right then and there.

----------


## anaconda

> Protest was made on federal park grounds. Permit was attained.


Ah, I see.

----------


## damiengwa

And about the whole, does he own guns crap.  Its all about compliance and obedience.  You can pull up his youtube and see his AR in half his vids.  

Nonesense.  They just want to shame him and take his guns after trumping up charges.

----------


## damiengwa

> I was there on the Capitol lawn in 2008 when Kokesh made his very inspirational speech. Heck, he had the crowd almost ready to storm the Capitol and take back our country right then and there.


Well when he was running for Congress I met him personally. I looked the man in the eye. I was able to get a sense of his soul. A man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.

----------


## damiengwa

> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cointelpro


That was scary roxy.  It made my computer google that.  How dare you hijack my property like that, after all we've been through together!

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

If they take people's guns, people are just going to get this _Improvised Munitions Handbook_:
source 1: http://cryptome.org/0001/tm-31-210.htmsource 2: http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2007/imhv3.pdfsource 3: http://www.libertyreferences.com/imp...handbook.shtml

----------


## RickyJ

> Well when he was running for Congress I met him personally.* I looked the man in the eye. I was able to get a sense of his soul.* A man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.


I'm not sure about that ability. You could have saw what you wanted to see. The guy is great speaker, no doubt, at least he was in July 2008. He is a little wild and says things that do not help advance the cause of liberty at times, but overall he seems to have his heart in the right place fighting for freedom.

----------


## damiengwa

> I'm not sure about that ability. You could have saw what you wanted to see. The guy is great speaker, no doubt, at least he was in July 2008. He is a little wild and says things that do not help advance the cause of liberty at times, but overall he seems to have his heart in the right place fighting for freedom.


No man, you don't get it.  Seriously.  I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy….I was able to get a sense of his soul.

Maybe you're too young to know this.

----------


## economics102

> Well when he was running for Congress I met him personally. I looked the man in the eye. I was able to get a sense of his soul. A man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.


In fairness to Kokesh's critics, what you just said is the same thing people say when they meet Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, et. al.

Just sayin

----------


## paulbot24

> In fairness to Kokesh's critics, what you just said is the same thing people say when they meet Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, et. al.
> 
> Just sayin


I don't believe I have heard anybody say they get a sense of Romney's soul. First you have to be human. While Obama has an evil soul, Romney is too plastic to have a soul.

----------


## speciallyblend

> In fairness to Kokesh's critics, what you just said is the same thing people say when they meet Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, et. al.
> 
> Just sayin


I know Adam Kokesh, just sayin. damiengwa is spot on.

----------


## KingNothing

> In fairness to Kokesh's critics, what you just said is the same thing people say when they meet Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, et. al.
> 
> Just sayin


If you don't think Kokesh is committed to Liberty, you're dead wrong.

I don't always agree with him, but he's a very well-read, very intelligent, dedicated member of our community.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No but it would be for the best.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the straw that broke the camel's back was when he threatened to assassinate Romney on the air.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlikely. I have a low profile and don't go looking for trouble, IE. I don't smoke dope in public in states where it's illegal and don't march into states carrying where it's illegal. I respect the rule of law. We have a process to change unconstitutional laws in this country and it's not invading DC.


You must be a good little citizens.  I'm sure the feds love you.  What's your problem with civil disobedience?

----------


## shane77m

> Unlikely. I have a low profile and don't go looking for trouble, IE. I don't smoke dope in public in states where it's illegal and don't march into states carrying where it's illegal. I respect the rule of law. We have a process to change unconstitutional laws in this country and it's not* invading DC*.



Invading? LOL
You sound like the gun grabbers and leftist progressives on AK's Fedbook page. This march is not an "invasion." 

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. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ~,_. . . ..~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .=,_. . . .-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .=-._. . .;,,./`. . / . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You really can't figure it out?
> 
> You're a very hostile person, thus leaving yourself open for personal attacks (which you dish out with great regularity), so when you say something dumb about teachers and scientists, you make yourself an easy target. Do you still not understand that when you're paying to go to college, you are paying teachers and scientists, whom you claim to dislike and disrespect?
> 
> You made the personal attack on anyone here who is a teacher or scientist, try to comprehend that.


I'm not paying for college.  Also, maybe you could show me some of the numerous times where I've insulted others because I have enough confidence that you won't be able to find a significant amount.  I attack the reasoning, not the person.  And no, some vague conglomerate of "scientists" and "teachers" does not count as a personal attack like what you dish out, you hypocrite.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I'm not sure about that ability.



Some people have innate abilities not possessed by others.  Some have gone on to further develop what they already had naturally.  

It's smart to be skeptical, though, because there are also people who are naturally hypnotic to others, and some of those people have also further developed that skill as well.  I've only met a few people I would call truly hypnotic.





> No man, you don't get it.  Seriously.  I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy….I was able to get a sense of his soul.
> 
> Maybe you're too young to know this.



A very small amount of people will understand what you are saying.  Don't forget that most people can hardly see what's going on around them, even if you point it out.  





> In fairness to Kokesh's critics, what you just said is the same thing people say when they meet Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, et. al.
> 
> Just sayin



Well, there's also a large majority of people who are easily led, or easily fooled.  Even Ron said Santorum isn't real, and Santorum practically screams it every time he speaks.  On top of that, a lot of people have a need for internal consistency, so they'll stick to their original conclusions even after contradicting evidence appears.

----------


## economics102

> If you don't think Kokesh is committed to Liberty, you're dead wrong.
> 
> I don't always agree with him, but he's a very well-read, very intelligent, dedicated member of our community.


I should clarify, I wasn't intending to take a side with my last comment. I personally like Kokesh and am in awe of the courage he has shown.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> gee, i wonder if any 'higher' ups are pulling any strings here?


Might it be a conspiracy?  No, no, certainly not.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It is none of their business if he has guns, and has nothing at all to do with grabbing someone's arm before you figure out they are an official, then dropping it, which is the MOST he could have done in the time before I saw him clearly out of the scrum.  I didn't see a grab at all.
> 
> But asking that sure tips their hand to the real reason they did it.  I thought from the video the guy id'd ADAM specifically and headed towards him.  I think it was the 2d amendment march all the time.


And they didn't arrest anyone else who was smoking, just the guy who happened to be standing behind Adam.  What a quinky-dink.

----------


## Krzysztof Lesiak

Adam is awesome. He's one of the brightest and best people in the libertarian movement in America.

----------


## MelissaCato

Anthony Tolda  http://youtu.be/mpZrMsypeL4

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well, you're not talking to me but...
> you're obviously unaware of what a personal attack is, then.
> A personal attack is a direct attack on an individual.    If you disparage a collective group (ie, teachers) you are not making a personal attack on every single teacher in existence.  In fact, it generally goes without saying that there are exceptions.   People that don't like cops still know that here and there exist really good ones trying hard to be solid and just... but believe it's the exception, not the rule.
> 
> 'You're ugly' is a personal attack.
> 'Public school teachers generally suck' is not a personal attack on individual public school teachers.
> 
> As for the snipped bit about PaulConventionWV -- I'm not seeing it.  he seems alright in his conversation to me.  At least, i haven't seen him attack you, but i ahave seen you attack him.  I could have missed a post, though.


"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to affa again".  

Spot on, and thanks.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No, I just require evidence of the evil behavior.


Apparently being required by their department to do unconstitutional things in order to remain employed is not evidence enough.  Whatever.  You believe whatever you want to believe.

----------


## liberty2897

> Adam is awesome. He's one of the brightest and best people in the libertarian movement in America.


I agree with your assessment of Adam.  Apparently the feds must think he can help make a difference too.

Found this link this morning:  http://communities.washingtontimes.c...ights-he-stil/

----------


## pcosmar

> Anthony Tolda  
> 
> 
> [/URL]


BULL$#@!.



> *A dishonorably discharged vet*


It starts with a bull$#@! lie. Not even worth considering.

When people are spreading lies to smear someone, you really need to question their motivations.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> BULL$#@!.
> 
> 
> It starts with a bull$#@! lie. Not even worth considering.


Yes, and trying to say he's an uncover democrat because he aligned with Code Pink in certain cases, as though building alliances for good causes implicates you in all things by association.

_edit: On the front page right now, there's a video of Ron Paul agreeing with Michael Moore on the Larry King Show, the reasoning behind the agreement is what separates them concerning understanding and principle._

----------


## V3n

I'm not a fan of Kokesh, but I don't like this one bit.

----------


## tod evans

First they came for the agitators....

----------


## Carlybee

Is the ACLU going to get involved?

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> First they came for the agitators....



Maybe people need to be reminded that this entire board is an agitator.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Maybe people need to be reminded that this entire board is an agitator.


the closer we get to critical mass status, this board will have to decide if it can stay in business. People are getting really pissed. This Adam Kokesh situation is in my opinion a real world tipping point. Am i being a drama queen?....my gut says the Republic is nearly at an end, and a new form of government has finally emerged without pretense. This 'we are $#@!ed' comment i have read many times is now not a joke. One day at a time Patriots. We must stay strong.

----------


## Weston White

*Contact Intel dump:*

This may very well be the individual that filed the complalint against Adam (HERE):



> Donald Reed	Don_Reed@nps.gov 	215 597-7049


http://www.nps.gov/directory/employe...givenname=&pk=

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/donald-reed/13/719/429


This was the only NPS named "Independence" within Pennsylvania:



> UNIT: INDEPENDENCE
> TYPE: NHP
> 
> Cynthia MacLeod 
> 
> 143 South Third Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19106
> 
> PHONE: (215) 965-2305
> FAX: (215) 597-1003






> UNIT: THADDEUS KOSCIUSZKO 
> TYPE: NMEM 
> 
> Cynthia MacLeod 
> 
> c/o Independence NHP
> 143 S. Third Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19106 
> 
> ...


http://www.nps.gov/directory/NPS_Par...ng_05-2013.pdf




> By Mail
> Independence National Historical Park
> 143 South Third Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19106
> 
> By Phone
> Visitor Information
> (215) 965-2305
> 
> ...


http://www.nps.gov/inde/contacts.htm

----------


## JK/SEA

from Adams facebook page today:

''A legal defense fund is being organized for Adam and will be ready by close of business today... also stay tuned to AVTM because we are releasing some footage that could shift the whole paradigm for Adam'' - Lucas

----------


## Weston White

And for those interested (23-pages in total):




> *4. Visiting Room:*
> 
> The visiting room is arranged to provide staff with adequate supervision of inmates and visitors in conjunction with a comfortable and pleasant atmosphere. There are sections within the visiting room specifically designated as a parent/children’s area as well as those designated for private legal visits. These rooms will not be utilized for social visits anytime. This includes PVS visits. All regular visits not requiring special security measures will be conducted in the institution’s visiting room.
> 
> All visits for inmates with special security needs will take place in the Special Housing Unit visiting rooms.
> 
> The Warden has the authority to restrict or suspend a general population inmate’s regular visiting privileges when there is reasonable suspicion that the inmate has acted in a way that would indicate a threat to the good order or security of the institution. Ordinarily, the duration of the restriction or suspension should be limited to the time required to investigate and initiate the discipline process. Reasonable suspicion exists when reliable information and/or facts are presented to the Warden that the inmate is engaged, or attempting to engage, in criminal or other prohibited acts. Reasonable suspicion must be directed specifically to the inmate in question.
> 
> *5. Visiting Schedule:*
> ...


http://www.bop.gov/locations/institu...isit_hours.pdf

*FDC Philadelphia:* http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/phl/index.jsp

----------


## phill4paul

> And for those interested (23-pages in total):
> 
> 
> http://www.bop.gov/locations/institu...isit_hours.pdf
> 
> *FDC Philadelphia:* http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/phl/index.jsp


 


> The Warden has the authority to restrict or suspend a general population inmate’s regular visiting privileges when there is reasonable suspicion that the inmate has acted in a way that would indicate *a threat to the good order or security of the institution.*


  Isn't that why he was arrested in the first place?

----------


## Xenliad

.....

----------


## jllundqu

The felony assault charge will be dropped.. not even a d-bag AUSA on a  power trip would take that case to court.  He will most likely have to plea out to a misdemeanor charge and pay a fine.  Any felony charge held means he would be barred from owning firearms forever. (18USC922(g) - Prohibited Possessor) 

What a perfect catalyst to really launch the DC march though.... I hope this arrest of Kokesh opens people's eyes and gets another 5000 people to join the DC march...

----------


## damiengwa

> Is the ACLU going to get involved?


LOL!  The ACLU won't even put out a press release for Adam.  Only people of the right political persuasion get ACLU help.

Now if he hated guns and was organizing a march to ban them, if he hated America, promoted some other fascistic ideas and set off a few bombs killing dozens of innocents, they'd be on his defense like white on rice.

----------


## jllundqu

What a joke the ACLU has become

----------


## torchbearer

resisting arrest and assaulting an officer in this arrest still begs the question-
why were they arresting him in the first place?

----------


## paulbot24

> What a joke the ACLU has become


A *racist* joke that nobody is "allowed" to say and never was very funny in the first place.

----------


## damiengwa

> resisting arrest and assaulting an officer in this arrest still begs the question-
> why were they arresting him in the first place?


Officially: Speaking in a microphone and saying things the PTB didn't like.  Like encouraging folks to commit the heinous crime of lighting a mj cigarette in a park during a rally.  

Unofficially, because he's organizing an 'armed revolt.'
#Opencarry130704

----------


## NERVE

> resisting arrest and assaulting an officer in this arrest still begs the question-
> why were they arresting him in the first place?


Thats what I was wwondering. Is there anyway that adam could just sue the police for false arrest?

----------


## torchbearer

> Officially: Speaking in a microphone and saying things the PTB didn't like.  Like encouraging folks to commit the heinous crime of lighting a mj cigarette in a park during a rally.  
> 
> Unofficially, because he's organizing an 'armed revolt.'
> #Opencarry130704


well, when this goes to trial, the defense attorney only needs to ask-
on what charges were you arresting mr. kokesh that led to the assault and resisting?
i only see two charges, and those charges usually follow the one that lead to the arrest to begin with...
the officer wasn't making an arrest, but instead was kidnapping kokesh.

----------


## paulbot24

The government and its state-run media are busy painting an ugly picture and "bio" with all this to conveniently release in time for the march. "So, just who is Adam Kokesh?" "Well, since you asked........." proceed with character assassination.....using broad strokes to paint over all participants. It disgusts me when I think about how much "they" are enjoying this right now.

----------


## 69360

> Invading? LOL
> You sound like the gun grabbers and leftist progressives on AK's Fedbook page. This march is not an "invasion."


What exactly do you think the MSM would call a thousand armed people marching into DC? Are you capable of seeing any perspective but your own?




> resisting arrest and assaulting an officer in this arrest still begs the question-
> why were they arresting him in the first place?


Obstruction, he attempted to block the police from arresting somebody else, then resisted his own arrest.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Is the ACLU going to get involved?


How about Amnesty International?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Adam Kokesh, Political Prisoner - Day 4.

----------


## pcosmar

> Obstruction, he attempted to block the police from arresting somebody else, then resisted his own arrest.


Which is what anyone in a free society should be doing.

police should be confronted and their purpose questioned each and every time.. everywhere.

Where was the warrant?

----------


## Expatriate

> So last night I said a prayer for Adam, and then this song came on the radio


Great song!

----------


## pcosmar

> Adam Kokesh, Political Prisoner - Day 4.


Yet another POW. (call it what it is)

----------


## CPUd

> Thats what I was wwondering. Is there anyway that adam could just sue the police for false arrest?


Sort of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus

----------


## damiengwa

69360.  You are a tool.  You make one false claim about Adam after another.  Why do you do this?  Do you have no integrity?  You may not agree or like him, but you are spread bs about him.   He is charged with a Felony Assault for allegedly 'touching' a cops arm.  And resisting arrest, which they clearly cooked up when they dragged him away they make it look like he was struggling, when the whole time you can see him holding his hands up.  WATCH THE VIDEO EVERY ONE>

But you 69360, I'm sorry for calling you a tool.  You are actually the worst scum on these boards.  You've seen all the vids and read the articles. You know enough to prove you have. But you post twisted BS to attack a good man of conscience.  You have no honor, you have no soul.  I'd rather be on welfare and food stamps than take the dirty pay check you take to destroy people who are clearly being disgustingly violated by the government, and denied his right of free speech, freedom, miranda etc.  You are destroying a good man the government is clearly trying to frame.

I hope there is  a special place in hell for you.

----------


## torchbearer

> What exactly do you think the MSM would call a thousand armed people marching into DC? Are you capable of seeing any perspective but your own?
> 
> 
> 
> Obstruction, he attempted to block the police from arresting somebody else, then resisted his own arrest.


i didn't see obstruction as one of the charges?

----------


## Root

> The felony assault charge will be dropped.. not even a d-bag AUSA on a  power trip would take that case to court.  He will most likely have to plea out to a misdemeanor charge and pay a fine.  Any felony charge held means he would be barred from owning firearms forever. (18USC922(g) - Prohibited Possessor) 
> 
> What a perfect catalyst to really launch the DC march though.... I hope this arrest of Kokesh opens people's eyes and gets another 5000 people to join the DC march...


I really hope Adam doesn't take a plea deal.

----------


## paulbot24

> i didn't see obstruction as one of the charges?


I believe it was Obstruction of a Government Agent. I had to look up what OGA stood for.

----------


## pcosmar

> I really hope Adam doesn't take a plea deal.


Me too,, though the hopes of a "good lawyer" are slim.

It would be nice to see him proven innocent and at the same time the State be proven guilty. Publicly.

----------


## sailingaway

> I believe it was Obstruction of a Government Agent. I had to look up what OGA stood for.


meaning standing between the agent and his target as the agent approached from BEHIND him?

----------


## sailingaway

> What exactly do you think the MSM would call a thousand armed people marching into DC? Are you capable of seeing any perspective but your own?
> 
> 
> 
> *Obstruction, he attempted to block the police from arresting somebody else, then resisted his own arrest.*


re bolded, please direct me to video where EITHER of those things happened because I saw nothing suggesting that in the footage I saw.

----------


## sailingaway

> How about Amnesty International?


I vote for Rutherford institute.  ACLU might barter away his gun rights.

----------


## asurfaholic

> What exactly do you think the MSM would call a thousand armed people marching into DC? Are you capable of seeing any perspective but your own?
> 
> .


Not to steal anyone's thunder, but I can see the perspective you are talking about. 

I am not going to the march, Adam Kokesh has not made me look like anything. What he, and those who join him, do is independently critiqued from what I do. And like you, I support liberty.

But at some point, who cares what the media says about what Kokesh is calling what he is doing? Who cares what the initial outcry is? At some point people have to stand up for what is right, even if it is unpopular or dangerous.

I understand that this is big business that Kokesh is planning, and I also understand how it might be portrayed as, but liberty will not just come back without some sort of public desire, and the more action that is taken, the more people can look a situation and analyze it. 

I think that whether you like his stance on weed, or activism, or politics even, nobody should be arrested in the manner he has been. That alone should bother anybody.

----------


## sailingaway

> The felony assault charge will be dropped.. not even a d-bag AUSA on a  power trip would take that case to court.  He will most likely have to plea out to a misdemeanor charge and pay a fine.  Any felony charge held means he would be barred from owning firearms forever. (18USC922(g) - Prohibited Possessor) 
> 
> What a perfect catalyst to really launch the DC march though.... I hope this arrest of Kokesh opens people's eyes and gets another 5000 people to join the DC march...


what misdemeanor?  I didn't see a misdemeanor by HIM, I think they were hoping he'd have weed on him, but clearly he didn't or we'd have heard of it.

----------


## sailingaway

> Not to steal anyone's thunder, but I can see the perspective you are talking about. 
> 
> I am not going to the march, Adam Kokesh has not made me look like anything. What he, and those who join him, do is independently critiqued from what I do. And like you, I support liberty.
> 
> But at some point, who cares what the media says about what Kokesh is calling what he is doing? Who cares what the initial outcry is? At some point people have to stand up for what is right, even if it is unpopular or dangerous.
> 
> I understand that this is big business that Kokesh is planning, and I also understand how it might be portrayed as, but liberty will not just come back without some sort of public desire, and the more action that is taken, the more people can look a situation and analyze it. 
> 
> I think that whether you like his stance on weed, or activism, or politics even, nobody should be arrested in the manner he has been. That alone should bother anybody.


This.  I wouldn't have set up the march the way he did myself, but it is still wrong and outrageous for him to be politically targeted when he did nothing wrong and kept without bail for days at minimum.  And people NEED to be outraged, or what you are seeing will just be more precedent.

----------


## sailingaway

> Officially: Speaking in a microphone and saying things the PTB didn't like.  Like encouraging folks to commit the heinous crime of lighting a mj cigarette in a park during a rally.  
> 
> Unofficially, because he's organizing an 'armed revolt.'
> #Opencarry130704


I don't think he'd actually encouraged anyone, he just got the mic when they grabbed him. the report said he had the mic 'just AFTER' someone else said something.  The report is laughable, particularly when put together with the video.

----------


## torchbearer

> I believe it was Obstruction of a Government Agent. I had to look up what OGA stood for.



will have to watch the video, but it looked like adam was the target from the beginning...

----------


## sailingaway

> from Adams facebook page today:
> 
> ''A legal defense fund is being organized for Adam and will be ready by close of business today... also stay tuned to AVTM because we are releasing some footage that could shift the whole paradigm for Adam'' - Lucas


that is on the link I posted earlier, I think it was www.freeAdamKokesh.com

----------


## NERVE

I will be at the march this year no matter what.

----------


## pcosmar

> what misdemeanor?  I didn't see a misdemeanor by HIM, I think they were hoping he'd have weed on him, but clearly he didn't or we'd have heard of it.


Exactly. and from the complaint,, it is alleged that Adam grabbed an officers arm. That was the so called assault.

However. Adam had a microphone in one hand and was holding on the another person with the other.
*So the accusation is a bald faced lie.*

This was nothing else but a Violation of Civil Rights under the Color of Law. A Federal Crime.

All LEO Present should be charged and barred from ever being employed in Law enforcement,,  permanently.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Is the ACLU going to get involved?


my experience with ACLU reported here

----------


## torchbearer

> Exactly. and from the complaint,, it is alleged that Adam grabbed an officers arm. That was the so called assault.
> 
> However. Adam had a microphone in one hand and was holding on the another person with the other.
> *So the accusation is a bald faced lie.*
> 
> This was nothing else but a Violation of Civil Rights under the Color of Law. A Federal Crime.
> 
> All LEO Present should be charged and barred from ever being employed in Law enforcement,,  permanently.


without some good ol' boys to round up them up, i don't see how this abuse stops.
it is perpetrated by the leadership of these organizations. it is now their policy.
There is no one left to arrest them.

----------


## pcosmar

> will have to watch the video, but it looked like adam was the target from the beginning...


That was my impression on viewing several videos.

And I suspect there are some we have not seen yet, there were a lot of cameras.

----------


## WM_in_MO

> without some good ol' boys to round up them up, i don't see how this abuse stops.
> it is perpetrated by the leadership of these organizations. it is now their policy.
> There is no one left to arrest them.


No one?

Users active in the past 24 hours
11632 Users have visited the forum. 689 members and 10943 guests



*No one?*

----------


## torchbearer

> No one?
> 
> Users active in the past 24 hours
> 11632 Users have visited the forum. 689 members and 10943 guests
> 
> 
> 
> *No one?*


I meant, no one in law enforce left to arrest them.
the first part of my post referred to the good ol' boys, some of them post here.

----------


## pcosmar

> No one?
> 
> Users active in the past 24 hours
> 11632 Users have visited the forum. 689 members and 10943 guests
> 
> 
> 
> *No one?*


Not yet.

You see,, it would require the use of arms. (the proper 2nd amendment use)
Far too many are opposed to that option and reality.

----------


## affa

this country is breaking my heart.

----------


## parocks

> Ever watch him talk? He's a freaking space cadet and his actions are erratic at very best. He got banned from all Ron Paul events for a reason.


He got banned from all Ron Paul events?

Well, then why are we talking about him?

I would argue that Kokesh is a mess, and that we should stay as far away from him as possible.  He is not helpful.

----------


## angelatc

> He got banned from all Ron Paul events?
> 
> Well, then why are we talking about him?
> 
> I would argue that Kokesh is a mess, and that we should stay as far away from him as possible.  He is not helpful.


The people in the conversation were talking about him, you weren't.  So there's no "we" here.

And "we" like him more than we like you.

I was wondering when you'd show up.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Exactly. and from the complaint,, it is alleged that Adam grabbed an officers arm. That was the so called assault.
> 
> However. Adam had a microphone in one hand and was holding on the another person with the other.
> *So the accusation is a bald faced lie.*
> 
> This was nothing else but a Violation of Civil Rights under the Color of Law. A Federal Crime.
> 
> *All LEO Present should be charged and barred from ever being employed in Law enforcement,,  permanently.*



hehe.  You know they've already ordered awards for themselves.

----------


## JK/SEA

> He got banned from all Ron Paul events?
> 
> Well, then why are we talking about him?
> 
> I would argue that Kokesh is a mess, and that we should stay as far away from him as possible.  He is not helpful.


Ron Paul endorsed Kokesh when he ran for Rep. or does Ron's endorsement mean anything....to anyone?

----------


## FrankRep

> Ron Paul endorsed Kokesh when he ran for Rep. or does Ron's endorsement mean anything....to anyone?


Ron Paul's endorsement was way before Kokesh went off the deep end with his radicalism.

----------


## schiffheadbaby

> Ron Paul's endorsement was way before Kokesh went off the deep end with his radicalism.


Adam Kokesh has done more for the movement than a guy who has posted online over 25k times but probably doesn't have the courage to confront the state in public.

----------


## Thor

> Ron Paul's endorsement was way before Kokesh went off the deep end with his radicalism.


You have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.  Adam is doing just that, and I support him completely.

----------


## parocks

> The people in the conversation were talking about him, you weren't.  So there's no "we" here.
> 
> And "we" like him more than we like you.
> 
> I was wondering when you'd show up.


Could you help me out by pointing at the helpful things that Kokesh has done over the past couple of years?

Mostly what Kokesh has done has been harmful.

Kokesh fights with cops, gets arrested, and a handful of Kokesh supporters get upset.

Getting arrested, fighting with cops, is Kokesh's thing.  And when it happens people get upset.

Listen, a lot of times people get beat up by the cops, or killed by cops.  And we're all rightfully against that.  Those people are usually minding their own business.

Kokesh WANTS to fight with cops.  Everything his does has something to do with that.

If this were adamkokeshforums.com,  I wouldn't be discussing this.  But this is ronpaulforums.com, and Ron Paul has pushed Kokesh away as far as possible, for good reason.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Ron Paul's endorsement was way before Kokesh went off the deep end with his radicalism.


"Radicalism"

That's a good one. Where have I heard that one before....

----------


## Weston White

> If this were adamkokeshforums.com,  I wouldn't be discussing this.  But this is ronpaulforums.com, and Ron Paul has pushed Kokesh away as far as possible, for good reason.


hehe, actually it seems that www.adamkokeshforums.com is www.ronpaulforums.com (being that is redirects right back here to his very own subforum).

----------


## paulbot24

I've come around to see the patriot in Adam Kokesh. I can only imagine what kind of character assasination one could pull off on me, just using the facts, with no need for bias. If somebody with a bias decided to go to work on me....well, I would never pass anybody's purity test. $#@! purity testing. Even Thomas Jefferson had some interesting bastards. I am no Ron Paul, and neither is Kokesh, which is one of the reasons why Ron is so amazing, yet the blood of patriots flows the same shade of red in all of us. We all have something to contribute to liberty.....hell, his contributions are certainly deeper than the keyboard posturing rampant in today's brave new world.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Kokesh fights with cops, gets arrested, and a handful of Kokesh supporters get upset.
> 
> Getting arrested, fighting with cops, is Kokesh's thing.  And when it happens people get upset.
> 
> *Listen, a lot of times people get beat up by the cops, or killed by cops.  And we're all rightfully against that.  Those people are usually minding their own business.*
> 
> Kokesh WANTS to fight with cops.  Everything his does has something to do with that.



He's willing to bring more attention to the issue, while taking a chance of it being a personal loss.  People who have been randomly abused by police would understand that.  You're talking about someone who was arrested for dancing in the wrong place.  We should be cheering on cops for that because he knew the result ahead of time?

----------


## mczerone

> Could you help me out by pointing at the helpful things that Kokesh has done over the past couple of years?
> 
> Mostly what Kokesh has done has been harmful.
> 
> Kokesh fights with cops, gets arrested, and a handful of Kokesh supporters get upset.
> 
> Getting arrested, fighting with cops, is Kokesh's thing.  And when it happens people get upset.
> 
> Listen, a lot of times people get beat up by the cops, or killed by cops.  And we're all rightfully against that.  Those people are usually minding their own business.
> ...


I had a hardcore liberal friend share Kokesh's Jefferson Memorial Bodyslam video, with the appropriate outrage, and was able to open a dialog about what Adam stands for, what I believe, and why me and this friend share many goals.

Kokesh gave a speech at my state's LP convention that was all about individual success, about taking positive views and positive steps, and introduced "Zen Libertarianism" to a whole crowd of old-school "LP-at-any-costs" hacks to bring them out of their political-depression.

Kokesh has rallied Code Pink to join him in a coalition for activism. Kokesh has got Adam Jones to join him in documenting activism. Kokesh has gotten 2nd-amendment types to join him in a coalition for activism.

He's rallying the troops. He's reaching out to people that can't be reached by Ron Paul type political activism/education. He's redirecting those lost in the quagmire of the political system.

Shall I go on?

----------


## angelatc

> Could you help me out by pointing at the helpful things that Kokesh has done over the past couple of years?
> 
> Mostly what Kokesh has done has been harmful.
> 
> Kokesh fights with cops, gets arrested, and a handful of Kokesh supporters get upset.
> 
> Getting arrested, fighting with cops, is Kokesh's thing.  And when it happens people get upset.
> 
> Listen, a lot of times people get beat up by the cops, or killed by cops.  And we're all rightfully against that.  Those people are usually minding their own business.
> ...



I'm sorry Kokesh has harmed you. Now go away.

And now that you mention it, i think it's past time to change the name back to Liberty Forest.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Ron Paul's endorsement was way before Kokesh went off the deep end with his radicalism.


so Ron Paul made a mistake then, is that what you're saying?

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

no one here can talk $#@! about Adam Kokesh even if you disagree with him. We're typing on keyboards while he's out in the real world confronting the government for us

----------


## JK/SEA

4,662 going to march as of 12:30pm today pacific time.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> I vote for Rutherford institute. ...


I vote against the Rutherford Institute, because of this.

----------


## Root

> no one here can talk $#@! about Adam Kokesh even if you disagree with him. We're typing on keyboards while he's out in the real world confronting the government for us


and having his protected right of free speech violated, something we all should be fighting for regardless on how we feel about adam or his methods

----------


## Aratus

> no one here can talk $#@! about Adam Kokesh even if you disagree with him. We're typing 
> on keyboards while he's out in the real world confronting the government for us


what we can do is remind people of EACH day and hour of Adam's unjust detainment until he gets bail via a civilian court.
our War on Terror, in a manner like our great Civil War... has blurred the lines between the civilian and the military. we must
keep an external pressure up so that HABEAS CORPUS and due process of law is respected. were i to join the march and go
militant, i might be thought a joke. as i said to Bolil privately, were i to march like Spartacus, i'd look like XENA's overweight aging 
Amazon aunt if in "arena bait" gladiator getup.  were i to hold a vintage 60s  saturday night special, i'd be half as lethal as FDR with
one of his own "beta" liberator pistols in 1943. i do not shoot off guns and have minimal contact with them, however i can go to
rallies and marches.  i feel i'd want several cameras on my person were i to have the monies to travel to d.c this summer!!!!

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

People who want to see _exactly_ what Kokesh has been accused of (so far), review Section 6 of the criminal complaint.

----------


## NERVE

> no one here can talk $#@! about Adam Kokesh even if you disagree with him. We're typing on keyboards while he's out in the real world confronting the government for us


This sums up my feelings, I'm somewhat new to this forum, but why does every thread about Adam get caught up focusing on some stupid stuff when the fact is he was arrested and is facing charges for nothing but the fact that he was talking and pissed off people who don't have our best interests in mind. We keep screaming that we live in a police state and noone seems to take notice. If you watch the video of his arrest you can no longer deny it, even if you don't like Adam himself he is really putting the powers that be on the spot and forcing their hands.

----------


## sailingaway

> I'm sorry Kokesh has harmed you. Now go away.
> 
> And now that you mention it, i think it's past time to change the name back to Liberty Forest.


I don't know that Ron did it.  The campaign put that flyer out. It looked very un Ron like to me.  They may have shown him an angry Adam video and said it wasn't the time to have him there for ambush media and Ron might have agreed to THAT, but I can't see the rest of it.

I thought Adam went over the top and didn't want him ruining Ron's day, which I thought should have been at the RNC not the sun dome, either.

but time passes and I think they should sit down together sometime and get over it.  They believe in so many of the same principles, they just have different means for  achieving them, sometimes.

But to parocks, I don't need to say anything Adam has done that helped me. He has no obligation to be successful in helping me, although I would say that the totality of ALL activity led to the healthy concern by the establishment and the demonstration of vibrancy of our issues and Ron's support.  All who were active added to that, and Adam ran for office with everything that entailed then tried one after another after another way to fight for liberty, his way. I respect that even if I don't agree with every move he made or would structure this or that protest differently. When I do one, I can structure it.  Meanwhile, he has put himself on the line in many ways.   And is in jail for a pissant poor reason, and that deserves outrage imho.

----------


## Lucille

Claire Wolfe:  


> Yeah, what Kent said on Kokeshs armed march. And on Kokeshs kidnapping-by-cop.
> 
> I do find it odd, though, that in all this flapdoodle about Kokeshs proposed armed march on DC, not one person has mentioned that the same thing was tried not so long ago in even more radical form. Big hoo-hah over it then, too. But that was in the Fidonet days when hoo-hahs didnt make so much noise in the wider world. Linda Thompson. Ms Acting Adjutant General indeed


From the kidnapping link:




> I am not an advocate of using institutionalized kidnapping- euphemistically called "arrest" when committed by people who work for "government"- to remove "undesirables" from society.  But when that kidnapping is used against a person who wasn't doing anything wrong it is even more disgusting.
> 
> It doesn't matter if the kidnap victim was Adam Kokesh or that genocidal monster, Abraham Lincoln- if the victim isn't initiating force, stealing/defrauding, or trespassing on PRIVATELY owned property, the "arrest" is wrong.  If you won't speak out against the unjust kidnapping of your worst enemy, then you need to reexamine your commitment to liberty.
> 
> I have been frankly horrified at the things I have seen written relating to his "arrest" at the Smokedown Prohibition V event.  Gun owners, especially those who were not in favor of his planned armed march on DC, have been acting like statists.
> 
> The War on Politically Incorrect Drugs and The War Against Gun Owners are not separate issues.  They are both aspects of liberty, which can not be cherry picked to make you feel better.  You don't have to smoke Cannabis or own guns to support the absolute human right of everyone to do either or both.  Among other things.  But if you claim to love (and understand) liberty, you don't look convincing when you seem willing to throw someone else to the wolves.
> 
> Maybe Kokesh was seeking to be arrested.  Maybe he wasn't.  Maybe the feds wanted to get him out of the way so they wouldn't have to face the armed march in July.  Maybe it isn't smart to put yourself in a position to invite being kidnapped when you are planning something "bigger" for the near future.  Maybe, maybe, maybe...
> ...

----------


## sailingaway

> He got banned from all Ron Paul events?
> 
> Well, then why are we talking about him?
> 
> I would argue that Kokesh is a mess, and that we should stay as far away from him as possible.  He is not helpful.


He got banned by the campaign from one event -- the sun dome before RNC, because he was very likely to shove a mic in Ron's face and demand to know all sorts of reasons for late campaign actions rather than let people focus on building up our delegates for the fight they still had, and on celebrating Ron. It was not the right time for what Adam very likely would have used the time for, so I didn't disagree with keeping him out (although I was frankly interested in some of the answers, myself), but I always disagreed with the disrespectful way they did it, and I doubt Ron came up with that.

----------


## sailingaway

> hehe, actually it seems that www.adamkokeshforums.com is www.ronpaulforums.com (being that is redirects right back here to his very own subforum).


LOL!

I forgot about that, but yeah, it does.

----------


## sailingaway

> I was there on the Capitol lawn in 2008 when Kokesh made his very inspirational speech. Heck, he had the crowd almost ready to storm the Capitol and take back our country right then and there.


That was a fantastic speech. I'll find it.

----------


## damiengwa

> 4,662 going to march as of 12:30pm today pacific time.


I think the number will be much larger than the numbers who sign up.  This is not you typicall FB rally, "hey lets meet at the park and hold signs" bs.  Every one clicks for that crap. THIS rally openly calls for violating a felony grade statute.  People will not click "going" casually.  I imagine lots of folks in the face of all the targeting and profiling in the news will commit to going but never sign up on FB.  

You will all (even supporters) be surprised just how many people show up both armed with a rifle or a camera.  This rally will be epic.  

ADAM KOKESH IS THE ROSA PARKS OF OUR TIME!

The history books will later acknowledge this, but so many of my fellow RPers here can not realize that true history is unfolding here.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> Ron Paul's endorsement was way before Kokesh went off the deep end with his radicalism.


The thread defining the word "radical" is here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...hlight=radical

----------


## paulbot24

Jefferson and Hamilton disagreed on damn near everything, but when the dust cleared they always agreed on what mattered most: the fight against and prevention of tyranny. Herd of cats, yes. However, we shouldn't have to be kept in separate cages from *each other*.

----------


## sailingaway

here's Adam's speech from R3VOLution March the camera starts kinda shaky

----------


## sailingaway

> Jefferson and Hamilton disagreed on damn near everything,[/B].


well, but not that central bank thing.....

but I agree with the rest.

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

> But this is ronpaulforums.com, and Ron Paul has pushed Kokesh away as far as possible, for good reason.


Not that you would invoke Ron Paul's name to push your own personal agenda, but what has Ron Paul himself said to denounce Kokesh? What are Ron Paul's words (quoted, not paraphrased) on the matter?

----------


## sailingaway

> Not that you would invoke Ron Paul's name to push your own personal agenda, but what has Ron Paul himself said to denounce Kokesh? What are Ron Paul's words (quoted, not paraphrased) on the matter?


He hasn't said a word negative about him as far as I know.

----------


## angelatc

> He hasn't said a word negative about him as far as I know.


That's because Ron Paul is a better person than we are.  He rarely attacks people personally - it's always ideas and policies that he attacks.

----------


## brooks009

I does not matter what Ron Paul thinks about Adam or even what YOU think about him. We should all be outraged by this arrest and use Adam they way he want to be used... as a sacrificial lamb.

----------


## Aratus

we need to see that there is a due process of law and that he gets out on bail

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Adam Kokesh has done more for the movement than a guy who has posted online over 25k times but probably doesn't have the courage to confront the state in public.


+rep

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

The Criminal Complaint accuses Kokesh of violating 18 USC 111. Here are search results for 18 USC 111 in Google Scholar.

----------


## brandon

I posted the code earlier in the thread. 8 Year max sentence and Kokesh could be found guilty if he merely stood in the way of a cop trying to arrest somebody else.

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00111.html


Speficially,




> *forcibly* assaults, resists, opposes, *impedes*, intimidates,
> * or interferes with any person* designated in section 1114 of this
>       title while *engaged in* or on account of the performance of
> *official duties*;

----------


## sailingaway

> I posted the code earlier in the thread. 8 Year max sentence and Kokesh could be found guilty if he merely stood in the way of a cop trying to arrest somebody else.
> 
> 
> http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00111.html
> 
> 
> Speficially,
> 
> 
> ...


They came up from behind and he may have had his body in the way but if that constitutes 'impedes' I would argue it is unconstitutionally vague and that is de minimus.

----------


## WM_in_MO

I'm pretty sure its like trespassing, they have to have given you notice and a chance to move out of the way before you're considered impeding.

Ah hell, who am I kidding.

----------


## brandon

I believe he said on the mic "everyone move in tight and close to make it difficult for the cops" which sounds like a pretty clear violation of the code.

----------


## sailingaway

> I believe he said on the mic "everyone move in tight and close to make it difficult for the cops" which sounds like a pretty clear violation of the code.


I don't think that was him. The complaint says he had just gotten the mic 'after someone else was speaking' and I'm pretty sure they would have mentioned that if he was the one who said that. Not positive though.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> I posted the code earlier in the thread. 8 Year max sentence and Kokesh could be found guilty if he merely stood in the way of a cop trying to arrest somebody else.
> 
> http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00111.html
> 
> 
> Speficially,


See you actually see legal speak. All I see is. "We reserve the right to arrest you for any reason we can think of."

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> See you actually see legal speak. All I see is. "We reserve the right to arrest you for any reason we can think of."



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Warrior_of_Freedom again.

----------


## IDefendThePlatform

> I'm pretty sure its like trespassing, they have to have given you notice and a chance to move out of the way before you're considered impeding.


Agreed. The time between those cops moving in and kokesh getting bear hugged was like 5 seconds. You're gonna threaten a guy with years of jail time because he MAYBE didn't immediately jump out of your way in less than 5 seconds? After you initiated the attack on some peaceful people who weren't hurting anybody? 

Absolutely disgusting how out of control government has become.

----------


## IDefendThePlatform

The other thing is how long does it take to make sure you're being grabbed by an actual cop and not just private security or someone impersonating a cop? Did they flash their badges? Was there an immeninent threat of danger?

----------


## ZENemy

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Warrior_of_Freedom again.


Done

----------


## JK/SEA

interesting. Just noticed over 17,000 views of this thread. Makes me wonder how many gestapo $#@!s are reading this thread.

----------


## NERVE

This whole event makes me sick. There is no repercussion to the cops or the people that obviously are being $#@!s. That is when this crap will stop seriously when these cops start losing their jobs or losing other things. But this $#@! cannot happen if this happens to adam and the whole internet can know about it it can happen to anyone.

----------


## Root

> interesting. Just noticed over 17,000 views of this thread. Makes me wonder how many gestapo $#@!s are reading this thread.


111 forum members have participated in this thread.

----------


## KingNothing

Is there a jury in America that would possibly convict him of anything here?

----------


## TheTexan

> Is there a jury in America that would possibly convict him of anything here?


Yes, absolutely.  The court system is rigged against his favor, thats for sure.

----------


## tod evans

> Is there a jury in America that would possibly convict him of anything here?


Do a simple google search using the terms jury and federal court...

----------


## tod evans

> This whole event makes me sick. There is no repercussion to the cops or the people that obviously are being $#@!s. That is when this crap will stop seriously when these cops start losing their jobs or losing other things. But this $#@! cannot happen if this happens to adam and the whole internet can know about it it can happen to anyone.


Repercussion isn't going to come from the "Just-Us" department, they're the ones committing the infractions..

----------


## Working Poor

> Unless your brain backs it up, why listen to your gut?


Because my gut can't be assaulted by bs the way my brain can be.

----------


## NERVE

$#@! the justice dept is loving this crap, no It will have to be people like us that somehow can get these guys fired.

----------


## torchbearer

Here is the JACKASS, that kidnapped adam and claimed adam assaulted him:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/donald-reed/13/719/429


*Donald Reed*Law Enforcement Specialist at US Govt, National Park Service


Greater Philadelphia AreaLaw Enforcement





feeling mosaic?

----------


## speciallyblend

I Love Adam Kokesh, just sayin!!! Free Adam Kokesh!!!

----------


## pcosmar

> Is there a jury in America that would possibly convict him of anything here?


Yes. There are juries that will convict people with absolutely NO evidence.. if the Persecutor inflames them enough.

I have seen it happen,  and seen the man go free some time later when the real murders were caught.

The innocence project has many more examples.

----------


## torchbearer

//

----------


## sailingaway

from twitter just now:

----------


## FindLiberty

_WTF? Something in each hand! 



Above is denied here? 



I'm confused here - please tell me what is going on... I thought Adam was "the man", and now this guy appears to be one too? ;-)

Where does RT fit into this complicated picture of America's last days as insidious insiders persistently excrete the last remaining bits of partially digested constitutional debris? I hope the last honest person remembers to turn out the lights (and wipe) before they leave.
_

----------


## Weston White

> The other thing is how long does it take to make sure you're being grabbed by an actual cop and not just private security or someone impersonating a cop? Did they flash their badges? Was there an immeninent threat of danger?


Neither did they bother to announce their intentions nor provide any audible commands.  I am not certain, though I highly doubt that Adam or anybody else there is clairvoyant.  

There was no “I am special officer so-and-so with the NPS, I am placing you under arrest for possessing marijuana in a national park with intent to consume.”  No, “at this time I need you to let go of the mic; unlock your arms from one another and break apart.”  No, “place your hands behind your back at this time I am placing you under arrest.”  No, “stop resisting me from placing you under arrest!”  No, “you need to comply with my orders or you will be additionally charged with resisting arrest.”  No, “do you understand the lawful commands that I am ordering of you?” No, “do you understand that as of this moment I am placing you under arrest?”

There was none of that or anything to that effect, just a bunch of pushing and pulling from all directions within a large group of individuals.  Quite, honestly looked like one cluster of a training session that went a bit awry.  Certainly to no fault on the part of Adam.

----------


## damiengwa

> [I]WTF? Something in each hand! 
> Above is denied here?
> 
> I'm confused here - please tell me what is going on... _I thought Adam was "the man", and now this guy appears to be one too? ;-)_


No drug planting.  Was debunked on Alex Jones... koesh's friends were on and explained it.  Falsely accused.

Wait did i just say that?  Conspiracy theory debunked by Jones?  The world is spinning around me...

----------


## FindLiberty

> debunked on Alex Jones...


 Not really.  Got something palmed in BOTH hands... BTW, imo AJ's "da man" too

----------


## better-dead-than-fed

The abduction from a different angle: http://youtu.be/lUeK_DU3N0g?t=2m27s

----------


## Weston White

> I posted the code earlier in the thread. 8 Year max sentence and Kokesh could be found guilty if he merely stood in the way of a cop trying to arrest somebody else.
> 
> http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00111.html
> 
> 
> Speficially,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And what did Adam do exactly that constitutes the forcibly qualifier?  Standing next to somebody and holding their arm and even while telling the group surrounding them to pack it in to make it harder for the police to separate them is not in itself a forcible act and neither is it a prohibited personal act.

Locking arms and the use of lockboxes are common group protest methods (the tactic of locking-down, linking, or blockading) that are implemented by peaceful protesters or demonstrators.

Otherwise, by your intended interpretation, you would be in violation of the above statute merely by passively resisting your arrest (i.e., going completely limp and compelling the arresting officers to carry or drag you into their patty wagon).

----------


## torchbearer



----------


## John F Kennedy III

FREE ADAM!

----------


## JK/SEA

Something is supposed to happen thursday. He has over 5 grand now for a decent lawyer....

----------


## JK/SEA

> 


..

----------


## sailingaway

> Something is supposed to happen thursday. He has over 5 grand now for a decent lawyer....


That may be enough for a hearing/negotiation, but it won't be enough for a trial.

----------


## JK/SEA

> That may be enough for a hearing/negotiation, but it won't be enough for a trial.


hopefully it won't come to that. I'm waiting to see what happens before i send Adam some coin for a trial.

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## anaconda

> resisting arrest and assaulting an officer in this arrest still begs the question-
> why were they arresting him in the first place?


Yes. How can you get charged with "resisting arrest" if there's no charge of anything they were arresting you for?

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## anaconda

> That may be enough for a hearing/negotiation, but it won't be enough for a trial.


I think this would be a good use of grassroots funds. _But simply defending Adam is not enough._ We need to know if there is grounds for a monster law suit here. Otherwise they will just keep messing with us.

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## noneedtoaggress

> Yes. How can you get charged with "resisting arrest" if there's no charge of anything they were arresting you for?


He's been charged with a felony - assaulting an officer.

Here's a video from several angles:




The video doesn't appear to follow the events in the report. As far as I can see, he appears to be holding both of his arms up, one with the mic to his mouth, as they initiate contact with him.

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## RickyJ

> Something is supposed to happen thursday. He has over 5 grand now for a decent lawyer....


It is crazy he was arrested to start with, nevertheless still in jail for doing nothing other than exercising his right to free speech. This must have something to do with his planned march in Washington D.C., because it sure doesn't have anything to do what was going on in that video. I hope they know this won't stop the march, it will only make it bigger.

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## CPUd

> It is crazy he was arrested to start with, nevertheless still in jail for doing nothing other than exercising his right to free speech. This must have something to do with his planned march in Washington D.C., because it sure doesn't have anything to do what was going on in that video. I hope they know this won't stop the march, it will only make it bigger.


Sometimes it helps to look at things from a different perspective.  There are some park rangers who would disagree that this group were simply exercising 1st amendment rights; someone may have called and complained that they tried taking their kids to the park, and the group of people blowing weed smoke and cursing on the microphone prevented them from going.

The system is designed to make things hard on people who try to fight it; no doubt Adam knew what he was getting into with this.  They've had smoke downs in the park on a monthly basis, so it's unknown if the extra police presence was due to Adam being there or just that the park service decided this was the day they try to put a stop to them.

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## RickyJ

> Sometimes it helps to look at things from a different perspective.  There are some park rangers who would disagree that this group were simply exercising 1st amendment rights; someone may have called and complained that they tried taking their kids to the park, and the group of people blowing weed smoke and cursing on the microphone prevented them from going.
> 
> The system is designed to make things hard on people who try to fight it; no doubt Adam knew what he was getting into with this.  They've had smoke downs in the park on a monthly basis, so it's unknown if the extra police presence was due to Adam being there or just that the park service decided this was the day they try to put a stop to them.


Oh, I forgot about him cussing. He did cuss didn't he? Well if that was why they were arresting him initially then they should have said so, they didn't though. They just come up with bogus charges about him assaulting an officer when there is no evidence that occurred on that recording. Also the officers here violated protocol when arresting someone when they didn't put cuffs on him before taking him away. Adam is a pretty strong guy, and with free hands he could have got his hands on one of the officers guns and shot them both and got away. I am not saying he would ever do this, but how do the police know a person they are arresting wouldn't try to do exactly that, they couldn't unless they know something that we are unaware of.

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## Weston White

> Sometimes it helps to look at things from a different perspective.  There are some park rangers who would disagree that this group were simply exercising 1st amendment rights; someone may have called and complained that they tried taking their kids to the park, and the group of people blowing weed smoke and cursing on the microphone prevented them from going.
> 
> The system is designed to make things hard on people who try to fight it; no doubt Adam knew what he was getting into with this.  They've had smoke downs in the park on a monthly basis, so it's unknown if the extra police presence was due to Adam being there or just that the park service decided this was the day they try to put a stop to them.


You know that might actually serve to work in their favor.  Being that this was their fifth such event where law enforcement merely stood by (effectively as peace preservation officers) and observed their act of public protest or _civil disobedience_.

Thereby, local law enforcement there had (perhaps unwittingly, yet still) established a public perception or expectation—having set a precedent—of how they are to handle that classification or type of “criminal activity”—so as to their presumed departmental policies or instructions, directing them only to (even if temporary) _preserve the peace_ and nothing more.

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## tod evans

> The government and its state-run media are busy painting an ugly picture and "bio" with all this to conveniently release in time for the march. "So, just who is Adam Kokesh?" "Well, since you asked........." proceed with character assassination.....using broad strokes to paint over all participants. It disgusts me when I think about how much "they" are enjoying this right now.


Modus Operandi...

Boobus and Boobette have been duly influenced..

The ol' curmudgeons because this young man advocates smoking dope..

And the tree hugger crowd because this crazed veteran believes in guns..

I double-dare any MSM outlet to address the personal liberty aspect.......One source painting Adams actions as liberty loving...

Not going to happen.........Doesn't fit the agenda....





Pussys!

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## DGambler

Isn't he also saying "everyone back off" so that it doesn't escalate? If he was trying to resist, he wouldn't have said anything or would have tried to incite the crowd.




> He's been charged with a felony - assaulting an officer.
> 
> Here's a video from several angles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video doesn't appear to follow the events in the report. As far as I can see, he appears to be holding both of his arms up, one with the mic to his mouth, as they initiate contact with him.

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## torchbearer

> He's been charged with a felony - assaulting an officer.
> 
> Here's a video from several angles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video doesn't appear to follow the events in the report. As far as I can see, he appears to be holding both of his arms up, one with the mic to his mouth, as they initiate contact with him.


Officer Reed caught in a lie. hopefully we can get him to lie in court too before the video evidence is presented.

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## angelatc

> ..



Almost looks like a shocked Joe Scarborough sitting next to him.

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## Tinnuhana

Slightly OT and not germaine to conversation, but isn't Adam a rez boy? I know when I heard about the gun march, my first thought was "counting coup".

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## noneedtoaggress

> Slightly OT and not germaine to conversation, but isn't Adam a rez boy? I know when I heard about the gun march, my first thought was "counting coup".


I believe he just went to a Native American school for a while where he was the only Caucasian (I think that he said he was the only Caucasian person accepted and it closed shortly after he graduated). I heard this in a recent video interview IIRC.

Also I learned some new slang terms.

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## Tinnuhana

Pretty funny counting coup:

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## devil21

> Neither did they bother to announce their intentions nor provide any audible commands.  I am not certain, though I highly doubt that Adam or anybody else there is clairvoyant.  
> 
> There was no I am special officer so-and-so with the NPS, I am placing you under arrest for possessing marijuana in a national park with intent to consume.  No, at this time I need you to let go of the mic; unlock your arms from one another and break apart.  No, place your hands behind your back at this time I am placing you under arrest.  No, stop resisting me from placing you under arrest!  No, you need to comply with my orders or you will be additionally charged with resisting arrest.  No, do you understand the lawful commands that I am ordering of you? No, do you understand that as of this moment I am placing you under arrest?
> 
> There was none of that or anything to that effect, just a bunch of pushing and pulling from all directions within a large group of individuals.  Quite, honestly looked like one cluster of a training session that went a bit awry.  Certainly to no fault on the part of Adam.


Reminds me of the random abduction video from Pittsburgh G20.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-333821

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## Weston White

Coming to America 2014!
Those guys had firearms under their shirts.  Really though, I am getting so sick of seeing stuff like that go down with groups of people just standing around watching.  Geez, nobody even tried to at least get their license plate number!  Speaking of the Lucifer Effect.

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## nbruno322

> Officer Reed caught in a lie. hopefully we can get him to lie in court too before the video evidence is presented.


There is no way he grabbed that officers arm like the complaint stated. I hope the govt gets sued for every penny they can. 

Even if Kokesh did grab the officers arm, how the ^%#$ is it *not* cruel and unusual (and inhumane) to lock someone up for potentially *8 years* for this??

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## JK/SEA

> . 
> 
> Even if Kokesh did grab the officers arm, how the ^%#$ is it *not* cruel and unusual (and inhumane) to lock someone up for potentially *8 years* for this??


fear tactic...gotta keep the peasants in line.

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## Lucille

Speaking with Adam Kokesh, Before He Was Detained by the Feds
http://www.vice.com/read/speaking-wi...ed-by-the-feds



> Last week, I spoke to activist and libertarian talk show host Adam Kokesh. Less than 24 hours later he was taken into custody by federal agents.
> [...]
>  Adam and I talked on the phone for nearly a half hour about, among other things, his protest, privacy and security, and his Jeffersonian values. While his motivations aren't always clear, one thing was obvious: Adam Kokesh does not like the US Government. It's not that he hates the people running the government, but he believes government has invalidated itself by betraying the principles from which it was founded. At times Kokesh sounded downright anarchistic, but overall he was more empowered by the idea that government should belong to the governed.
> 
> The day after our conversation, Adam was arrested at "Smoke Down Prohibition," a public protest for the legalization of marijuana that takes place every month in Philadelphia. Basically, large groups of people gather in public and simultaneously spark up joints or smoke bowls of weed to protest the fact that it's illegal to do so. Also, they get high. It's not complicated. *Before last Saturday, no arrests had ever been made at one of these events, despite the fact that police were always present and laws were broken every time.*
> 
> There are several videos on YouTube that document the moments before and during Adam's arrest. In one of the clearest videos, Adam isn't sparking up. He continues talking into the microphone while everyone else is flicking their Bics. Within seconds, the police move in and Adam yells, “Lock arms, we’re going to make it difficult for the police here.” That didn't work out so well.
> 
>  Moments later, Adam is being dragged away from the crowd by police. *He doesn't appear to be committing any crime in the video. In fact, the only charges against him are for events that transpired after he was engaged by the officers: assault on a federal police officer, impeding the duties of a federal police officer, and resisting arrest. Almost immediately after being grabbed by the officers Adam's hands go up into the air, palms up, signaling that he has officially surrendered and isn't resisting arrest. No assault of any kind appears to take place.*
> ...





> Daniel Sisk · Timpanogos High School:  Great to see coverage of this on Vice! One thing you may want to change is how you said before the Police came in to arrest him, he said to lock arms. He didn't say to lock arms, he said to get close to each other and make it harder for the police. The only reason I bring it up is because locking arms or telling people to lock arms can be considered resisting arrest in some cases, so the difference is kind of important.
> 
> Dell Cameron · Journalist at VICE:  I was searching for the video and found it on another site where they have misquoted him. I probably watched the video 20 times and didn't notice that. Thanks for pointing it out. I've sent in the correction.

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## Lucille

This came out before Adam was released.  h/t http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/C...f-adam-kokesh/

And Then They Came For Me: The Black Bagging of Adam Kokesh
http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2013...am-kokesh.html




> The outright harassment, intimidation and black bagging of political opponents in the US has reached new levels in recent weeks.
> 
> The extortion arm of the US government, the IRS, has admitted to targeting people with certain political beliefs for aggressive shakedowns.  And good friend of TDV, Adam Kokesh, who was planning a peaceful armed march in support of the Second Amendment of the Constitution on Washington DC on July 4th was kidnapped in broad daylight on May 18th in Philadelphia.
> [...]
> Many know that we have been ringing the bell about the rising fasco-communist police state in the US and have been warning that more will just be taken away in the middle of the night as this progresses... and, apparently, the daytime too.  We even admonished Adam Kokesh, nearly one year ago today, to defect from the US and flee to Mexico.
> 
> This is only going to get worse from here so unless you are willing to be kidnapped and put in a cage I also admonish anyone who can to flee from the US to do so now while you still can.  If you can, get a foreign passport and renounce your US slave card... and if you are looking for a place to go, Galt's Gulch in Chile was set-up to be a sanctuary far away from the madness of the US and Western police states.
> 
> You know, it's almost funny that the typical statist will call the average true conservative, libertarian or anarchist "paranoid" for worrying that the government will start rounding up those who speak against it. Yet here it is starting to happen. Keep in mind that Adam didn't actually do anything just prior to his kidnapping. He didn't break any laws. There were dozens of people around Adam whose actual actions violated the ridiculous federal prohibition on possessing a plant and ingesting its smoke. Yet it was Adam who was targeted for a very assault by the costumed thugs.
> ...

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## JK/SEA

4,992 going to march on the 4th of July. As of 9:45am PT... 5/25.

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## better-dead-than-fed

Domain-name created prior to his arrest: http://www.networksolutions.com/whoi...ADAMKOKESH.COM

Explanation from domain-operator: http://freeadamkokesh.com/:




> UPDATE: Websites, youtube channels, FaceBook accounts, and twitter accounts, have made accusations that Adam Kokesh's arrest had to be a PR stunt, b/c this website was registered before his arrest. While it's important to question everything, you should also question your source of news. Are they doing everything they can to get the story right before reporting it? Well, none of these sites have reached out to me to ask what the deal was. You would think if they were interested in getting the story right, they'd reach out to get my explanation. I'm not hard to reach. My twitter account is posted at the bottom of this site. They seem to be more interested in their agenda (trying to discredit Adam).
> 
> For the record, this site was registered a few weeks ago, in anticipation of Adam's likely July 4th arrest, when Adam planned to march with a loaded rifle into D.C.. I did not know he was going to be arrested before then.

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