# News & Current Events > Individual Rights Violations: Case Studies >  Albuquerque Police Kill "Illegal Camper", Shooting Him in The Back

## SeanTX

Business as usual for APD. The guy said he was going to walk off with them, then one of them tosses a flash bang at him -- I can't imagine why that might cause him to go for a knife. 

http://www.abqjournal.com/372376/abq...-shooting.html




> The illegal camper shot by Albuquerque police this week was turning away from officers when they fired at him, according to video released by Chief Gorden Eden on Friday.
> 
> The shots come after a confrontation in which the man, identified as 38-year-old James Boyd, tells police he’s going to walk down the mountain with them.
> 
> “Don’t change up the agreement,” Boyd says. “I’m going to try to walk with you.”
> 
> He tells officers he’s not a murderer.
> 
> *Boyd picks up his belongings and appears ready to walk down toward officers.* *An officer fires a flash-bang device, which disorients Boyd.*
> ...

----------


## tod evans

> Officers appeared to have the man surrounded, but Eden said they couldn’t wait him out because they couldn’t keep him contained within the perimeter due to the difficulty of the terrain.


"No time for this $#@!, die mundane."

----------


## youngbuck

Just who in hell were these lovely cops "protecting and serving" by harassing, aggravating, and summarily executing this guy who was just keeping to himself, camping in the foothills?

Largest street gang in America...

----------


## tommyrp12

I seen this yesterday, they murdered that guy, and used the less than lethal rounds after they shot him multiple times with the real ones. 




> the man made a “threatening” move towards officers.


If your scared of everything that moves, just stay the hell home.

----------


## SeanTX

> Just who in hell were these lovely cops "protecting and serving" by harassing, aggravating, and summarily executing this guy who was just keeping to himself, camping in the foothills?
> 
> Largest street gang in America...


I didn't watch the vid (hate watching those things anymore, the descriptions are bad enough) -- on another forum somebody said one of the officers yelled out "BOOYAH!" after they shot him. If so, that shows their mentality right there -- they CRAVE this sort of action.

 I'm sure most people must think that these guys are wringing their hands after a "shoot" , that they see it as a "necessary evil" and hate to do it. No, a lot of them love it, and won't lose a minute's sleep over it. Also nice how they followed up with "bean bag" rounds after they killed him with live rounds, and let the K9 chew on him too.

Another absurdity here is the police chief tried to justify it by saying the "unarmed" K9 was in danger. They'll go around shooting our dogs and bragging about how "awesome" it was, then put the life of one of their own K9s above that of a mundane. Never mind that most police K9s that die are killed by police officers (through neglect, intentional beatings, etc).

----------


## Suzanimal

Murders

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> *Josh Lacey*
> If someone was in my back yard and they had a knives drawn, and I told them to leave, I would shoot them too. The last time I checked he doesn't own that property and was trespassing. Never bring a knife to a gun fight, moron. Next time, when people have guns drawn at you...get off their property.


Lalalalalalalala.

Another one...





> *Sharon Fenske* · Works at Sandia Hearing Aids
> he wasn't just a "camper"...he was a criminal.

----------


## Wadesc

What the &^% is wrong with New Mexico

If that video wasnt so terribly tragic you would think it is some kind of Parody... Flashbang while he is cooperating, then shoot him in cold blood? What the actual ... Oh he's motionless on the ground, after we shot him 4-5 times in the back! OMG he has knives! BEANBAG BEANBAG and then SICK THE DOG AT HIM

Absurd. Truly absurd paramilitaries

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Murders


Send a $#@!ing cop dog at me and I too might pull out a knife.

They guy was leaving and they throw a $#@!ing grenade? BTW, anyone who does not think this is murder... hope an aids infected doughnut makes sweet love to you.

----------


## tod evans

> What the &^% is wrong with New Mexico
> 
> If that video wasnt so terribly tragic you would think it is some kind of Parody... Flashbang while he is cooperating, then shoot him in cold blood? What the actual ... Oh he's motionless on the ground, after we shot him 4-5 times in the back! OMG he has knives! BEANBAG BEANBAG and then SICK THE DOG AT HIM
> 
> Absurd. Truly absurd paramilitaries



And not one person will care as they pop a top and recline...

----------


## SeanTX

Here's an interesting little tidbit on one of the murderers, seems he has a criminal past himself -- something that won't keep you from being a cop these days. 

http://krqe.com/2014/03/21/apd-offic...was-justified/




> One of the officers who was involved, Keith Sandy has a notable history in New Mexico law enforcement. *APD hired Sandy in 2007 after he was fired by New Mexico State Police over the Wackenhut scandal. Sandy was accused of fraud for making money doing private security work while on the clock for State Police*.
> 
> *When Sandy was hired by APD, the department said he would be a civilian employee and he wouldn’t have a gun or a badge*. However, *Sandy quickly rose through the department*, landing on the ROPE Team, which goes after repeat offenders or some of the city’s most dangerous criminals.

----------


## Wadesc

Just watched the press conference by the police chief...

http://video.abqjournal.com/Foothill...7#.Uy3AFIWih9Q

He's up there calling it justified, but his face isnt lying. He looks like he is about to burst into tears any moment.

I don't give him a pass for that because as the new police chief he is supposed to stand for some kind of reform, but I'd imagine pressure from the Police Union and other groups makes any kind of push for decency labelled as traitorous.

Gut police departments and give them sporks, AND *#$& THE MILITARY CONTRACTORS FLOODING THESE DEPARTMENTS WITH PARAMILITARY GEAR AND TRAINING (and the Federal funds that pay for it)

----------


## Thor

> Murders


Holy $#@!, they were just trigger happy $#@!s...  He was getting his stuff and coming down..  "do it"

Those officers should be lined up and shot.  No blind folds allowed.

"After reviewing the video, all procedures were followed."

----------


## KCIndy

We're seeing this sort of event transpire on a daily basis now.

It can't get any plainer than this, folks.



*WE. HAVE. BECOME. SPORT. TO. THEM.*

----------


## Anti Federalist

Contempt of cop.

Failure to comply in a suitably submissive and timely manner.

Sentence: Summary Execution.

Move along...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> We're seeing this sort of event transpire on a daily basis now.
> 
> It can't get any plainer than this, folks.
> 
> 
> 
> *WE. HAVE. BECOME. SPORT. TO. THEM.*


Yup.

Dance muthafuckas, dance.

Fail to dance and we kill you and get away with it.

----------


## Dr.3D

How dare that guy squat on the King's land?

----------


## Henry Rogue

Police Procedures for eviction. 
Step 1, toss flash bang.
Step 2, execute.
Step 3, fire beanbags at cadaver for practice and entertainment. 
Step 4, release bloodthirsty dog attack on cadaver for practice and entertainment. 
Step 5, overtime pay for cover-our-ass and high fives assignment.

----------


## Philhelm

> Those officers should be lined up and shot.  No blind folds allowed.


Justice demands a slow-roast incineration.  The heretics of liberty must be burned, and their souls cleansed with righteous flame.

----------


## Barrex

Every thread about government officials killing anyone or anything should contain link to this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...was-some-woman


I can not understand how the f"#%k are they getting away with it?

----------


## Thor

> I can not understand how the f"#%k are they getting away with it?


"After reviewing the video, all procedures were followed." 

That is how...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And not one person will care as they pop a top and recline...


Nope...not a $#@! will be given.

Hell, they'll laugh their asses off at it and demand more.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> Every thread about government officials killing anyone or anything should contain link to this thread:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...was-some-woman
> 
> 
> I can not understand how the f"#%k are they getting away with it?


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justified_(TV_series)
A typical american indoctrination tactic. Not the only reason, but it gets the sheep cheering on the butchers.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> "After reviewing the video, all procedures were followed." 
> 
> That is how...


*Circular Force Continuum.*

I've been harping on that for years now around here, and how it would play out in day to day cop ops.

Do not call cops.

Do not talk to cops.

Do everything you can to never have any interaction with these criminal lunatics.

Unless you are prepared for the consequences and willing to go all the way on any particular day, if approached by cops, submit fully and completely.

----------


## tommyrp12

Ghost knives and illegal campers, the new al queda.

Federal funds incoming.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

He was going to get shot knife or no knife.

----------


## green73

> Murders


That video obscures the fact that he had turned away. Here is one that does not. 
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451

----------


## pcosmar

> I can not understand how the f"#%k are they getting away with it?


because the men in this country that are armed in compliance with our second amendment do not (will not)  put a stop to it ..
as the 2nd  amendment intended.



Should they ever choose to,, in any appreciable number,, I will arm myself in violation of current laws,, and join them.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> That video obscures the fact that he had turned away. Here is one that does not. 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


Thanks, was looking for that.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> because the men in this country that are armed in compliance with our second amendment do not (will not)  put a stop to it ..
> as the 2nd  amendment intended.


And I'm as guilty as the next man.

Nothing more needs to be said...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> That video obscures the fact that he had turned away. Here is one that does not. 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


From the article.

Chief Eden said officers fired because *Boyd made a direct threat at the canine officer who was unarmed*

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1...CkCu2yqFjpF.99

Huh?

Cop dogs are armed?

----------


## Anti Federalist

*"And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free. 
And I won't forget the man who died, because Fido charged at he. 
So I'll gladly pack up, all my things. 
And leave this place today. 
Because there ain't no doubt, we've lost this land. 
We've $#@!ed the USA."*

Posted 13 hours ago By 
Spydermagnet

----------


## Thor

> That video obscures the fact that he had turned away. Here is one that does not. 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


Watch it closely...  the officer with the helmet cam perspective turns up or increases his light on the gun that he had just turned on 6-8 seconds before (warm up time?)...  when the light gets brighter in the air right next to the campers head (more smoke the light is hitting?), the camper appears to turn his head away from the light, and they fire immediately... and he steps away after the gun shots.

Either way, they sent the flash bang ("do it") as he just started to come towards them after getting his stuff...  trigger happy $#@!s.  "He has had us out here for hours, I am tired of this $#@!, waste him..."

----------


## Suzanimal

From green73's link....

We are so screwed....




> Police helmet camera captures fatal shooting of James Boyd armed with a knife as he's turning away.
> 
> ALBUQUERQUE (Story and video courtesy of KRQE)
> 
> By Chris McKee
> 
> Albuquerque police’s new chief says the latest officer involved shooting that killed a homeless man in the foothills is justified.
> 
> But new video police released Friday is raising a lot of questions about how it all played out.
> ...

----------


## Suzanimal

> From the article.
> 
> Chief Eden said officers fired because *Boyd made a direct threat at the canine officer who was unarmed*
> 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1...CkCu2yqFjpF.99
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Cop dogs are armed?


I wonder how many dogs the cops have shot were armed? smh...

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> From the article.
> 
> Chief Eden said officers fired because *Boyd made a direct threat at the canine officer who was unarmed*
> 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1...CkCu2yqFjpF.99
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Cop dogs are armed?


Send cop dog at Boyd = not a direct threat to Boyd. Boyd trying not to get mauled by dangerous cop dog = Direct threat to dangerous cop dog.


Some are more equal than others...

----------


## pcosmar

> Send cop dog at Boyd = not a direct threat to Boyd. Boyd trying not to get mauled by dangerous cop dog = Direct threat to dangerous cop dog.
> 
> 
> Some are more equal than others...


Except the video shows that the dog was on a leash and no where near the man until he was shot and dieing on the ground.

And this also highlights the Futility of Cameras on the Cops helmets. When recorded evidence is completely ignored.

----------


## mrsat_98

> And not one person will care as they pop a top and recline...





> Nope...not a $#@! will be given.
> 
> Hell, they'll laugh their asses off at it and demand more.


Will one of you get me a beer while the other makes sure these fine officers are ok ?

----------


## brushfire

Such brave men... Society seems much better off with their "protection".

----------


## KCIndy

> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justified_(TV_series)
> A typical american indoctrination tactic. Not the only reason, but it gets the sheep cheering on the butchers.


EXACTLY!

After years and years - generations, really - of this sort of indoctrination, they've got us (well, 99% of the population) right where they want us.  There is NOTHING harder to break than a lifetime of indoctrination to a particular point of view.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> EXACTLY!
> 
> After years and years - generations, really - of this sort of indoctrination, they've got us (well, 99% of the population) right where they want us.  There is NOTHING harder to break than a lifetime of indoctrination to a particular point of view.


I've never actually watched that particular show, but the commercials I've seen of it disgust me.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> *Circular Force Continuum.*
> 
> I've been harping on that for years now around here, and how it would play out in day to day cop ops.
> 
> Do not call cops.
> 
> Do not talk to cops.
> 
> Do everything you can to never have any interaction with these criminal lunatics.
> ...


I found this article a while back discussing CFC.
http://www.articlesbase.com/self-def...on-956580.html

----------


## CCTelander

> Nope...not a $#@! will be given.
> 
> Hell, they'll laugh their asses off at it and demand more.



Our society's version of "Ow My Balls!"? We are so $#@!ed.

----------


## devil21

> Our society's version of "Ow My Balls!"? We are so $#@!ed.


That helmet cam was so creepy.  It was like watching some people play Call of Duty....but with real guns and real deaths.  Why the hell did they throw a grenade at him???  Scary what's happening.

----------


## KCIndy

> because the men in this country that are armed in compliance with our second amendment do not (will not)  put a stop to it ..
> as the 2nd  amendment intended.
> 
> 
> 
> Should they ever choose to,, in any appreciable number,, I will arm myself in violation of current laws,, and join them.







> And I'm as guilty as the next man.
> 
> Nothing more needs to be said...



I know what I'm about to write is grating.  Irritating.  Aggravating to the point of being intolerable.  

But as of right now, being part of "the 0.0000001%" (and I chose that number with deliberation) isn't going to be enough.  

A lot more people need to be awakened.

----------


## oyarde

> Send a $#@!ing cop dog at me and I too might pull out a knife.
> 
> They guy was leaving and they throw a $#@!ing grenade? BTW, anyone who does not think this is murder... hope an aids infected doughnut makes sweet love to you.


Yes , I would call it murder .

----------


## devil21

Is there an unedited version of this video that doesn't blur out the actual shooting?

----------


## green73

> Is there an unedited version of this video that doesn't blur out the actual shooting?


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451

----------


## Barrex

> "After reviewing the video, all procedures were followed." 
> 
> That is how...





> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justified_(TV_series)
> A typical american indoctrination tactic. Not the only reason, but it gets the sheep cheering on the butchers.





> because the men in this country that are armed in compliance with our second amendment do not (will not)  put a stop to it ..
> as the 2nd  amendment intended.
> 
> 
> 
> Should they ever choose to,, in any appreciable number,, I will arm myself in violation of current laws,, and join them.


I am not talking about people who are not related to the victims. I dont understand how father, brother, son husband, some relative, someone from family never "lost it" or did something... It is impossible that cops always get people who dont have relatives. Maybe not every single time but 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. I am not looking forward to it. I am simply making observation about things that I dont understand.

----------


## Christopher A. Brown

> We're seeing this sort of event transpire on a daily basis now.
> 
> It can't get any plainer than this, folks.
> 
> *WE. HAVE. BECOME. SPORT. TO. THEM.*


There is a message in this KCindy.  We should not waste it.

With all this complaining, we would think that sincere Americans would be coming out of the wood work to unify and effectively oppose it.

http://algoxy.com/poly/principal_party.html

The first step is unity around constitutional intent.  How do we explain why Americans here cannot openly accept that the purpose of free speech is to assure information vital to survival is shared and understood?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Of-Free-Speech

Really, what is up?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That video obscures the fact that he had turned away. Here is one that does not. 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


They put handcuffs on him??!!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I am not talking about people who are not related to the victims. I dont understand how father, brother, son husband, some relative, someone from family never "lost it" or did something... It is impossible that cops always get people who dont have relatives. Maybe not every single time but 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. I am not looking forward to it. I am simply making observation about things that I dont understand.


That's a good question.  Honestly, I've never heard of a family member going berserk on cops.  It surprises me, too. Nobody is brave enough to get revenge.

----------


## tod evans

> That's a good question.  Honestly, I've never heard of a family member going berserk on cops.  It surprises me, too. Nobody is brave enough to get revenge.


Kops hide, they scurry away like rats in the light when they're 'off-work'...

They hide their faces 'on the job' because they know they're hunted...

Honorable men don't behave in that manner!

----------


## tod evans

> They put handcuffs on him??!!


Officer safety.......

----------


## Carson

> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


_"He's good."_

----------


## Carson

> Kops hide, they scurry away like rats in the light when they're 'off-work'...
> 
> They *hide their faces 'on the job' because they know they*'re hunted...
> 
> Honorable men don't behave in that manner!


Wouldn't it be because they are ashamed of what they are doing?

----------


## tod evans

> Wouldn't it be because they are ashamed of what they are doing?


I think you're giving evil and weak men more credit then they're due...

----------


## Snew

> Lalalalalalalala.
> 
> Another one...


bloodthirsty

----------


## CPUd

Don't know if this is the same dog:







> ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – An APD K9 is in surgery after being shot, multiple times by a suspect.
> 
> It happened during a SWAT standoff in northeast Albuquerque near San Pedro and Oakland.K9 Officer Rico
> 
> Officer went out there at about 2:45 a.m. to respond to reports of a burglary in progress.
> 
> They found a man in the yard of a business.
> 
> They say when the man saw officers approach, he ran toward a storage container and barricaded himself inside.
> ...


http://krqe.com/2014/03/21/apd-k9-sh...wat-situation/






> Rico has been released from the vet to begin the recovery process at home with his handler. Thank you to all who have kept them in your thoughts and prayers.


https://www.facebook.com/abqpolice

----------


## satchelmcqueen

> That video obscures the fact that he had turned away. Here is one that does not. 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


and dont ya just love how they handcuff a dead man? i wonder if these same type of pussy cops go into a funeral with weapons drawn just in case the dead guy in the casket might be armed?

hmmmm i think i just made a joke/insult for my standup routine there ! cops better not come to my show lol

----------


## devil21

> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1395460451


Jesus.  Those guys think they're still in $#@!ing Fallujah!

----------


## CPUd

From LiveLeak comments:




> I live in Albuquerque and worked for APD for number of years, watching this video shows the blatant disregard for human rights and civility by today's APD officers. The officer hold the X-rep tazer shotguns (yellow ones) never fired his less- lethal weapon, the K-9 wasn't released until after lethal force was used, the Chief stated that a CIT ( crisis intervention officer) was there, there wasn't. All of the officers on film are from APD's Tactical unit and from the ROP (repeat offender unit) which are all former tactical officers. No use of force steps were followed, they went from verbal commands to taking a mentally ill American Citizens life. Beginning from the 92nd academy class to now, the department is training this style of policing. Literally there is nothing taught to these officers other than every citizen encounter should be treat as a possible lethal situation. Chief Eden was quick to call this shooting justified, unfortunately, "and mark my words", Bernalillo County District Attorney Kari Brandenburg will also call it justified. As I stayed earlier, I worked for the department and I personally fear that this could happen to me if I was ever pulled over or stopped by police here in Albuquerque. Although I still jave many former co-workers on the force, the younger classes are the ones that we should fear.

----------


## fisharmor

> That helmet cam was so creepy.  It was like watching some people play Call of Duty....but with real guns and real deaths.  Why the hell did they throw a grenade at him???  Scary what's happening.


You know, I was, seriously, expecting the guy with the shotgun to teabag him.

----------


## devil21

Another Liveleak comment:




> Would someone in Albuquerque swear out an affidavit of what they saw on this video, that the police instigated the unlawful use of force, and shot the man in the back. Bring forth that affidavit to a judge and arrest warrants will be issued for all the officers involved to have them answer for their crimes.


I like this idea as a foundation for stopping this nonsense.  In most jurisdictions in the US, a citizen can go to the magistrate/judge, file an affidavit and swear out a warrant as a victim or witness to a crime that the police would otherwise not pursue.  Everyone in ABQ NM that watched that video should go do this!  Only once the CITIZENS as a whole start putting pressure on these people will it hopefully begin to change.

----------


## DamianTV

> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justified_(TV_series)
> A typical american indoctrination tactic. Not the only reason, but it gets the sheep cheering on the butchers.


Never fight the sheep directly unless you have to.  Instead, get the sheep to attack each other.

----------


## phill4paul

> *Murders*


  Yup. 
   Tick-tock.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I know what I'm about to write is grating.  Irritating.  Aggravating to the point of being intolerable.  
> 
> But as of right now, being part of "the 0.0000001%" (and I chose that number with deliberation) isn't going to be enough.  
> 
> A lot more people need to be awakened.


Oh, I'm well aware of that.

That's the primary reason I'm sitting on my hands.

I'm not quite ready to be grenaded and cut to ribbons by automatic weapons fire from behind a Pentagon supplied MRAP, so that _Boobus_ can roar and cheer and say "that stupid $#@! deserved it".

----------


## Kotin

Bull$#@! story 100% ..

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I found this article a while back discussing CFC.
> http://www.articlesbase.com/self-def...on-956580.html




This was almost exactly like the one I saw when this came up in my small town.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Oh, I'm well aware of that.
> 
> That's the primary reason I'm sitting on my hands.
> 
> I'm not quite ready to be grenaded and cut to ribbons by automatic weapons fire from behind a Pentagon supplied MRAP, so that _Boobus_ can roar and cheer and say "that stupid $#@! deserved it".


Anti-Fodder?

----------


## SeanTX

I wonder if the cops who fired at him will get the $500 bonus to go with the paid vacay ? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us...anted=all&_r=0




> ALBUQUERQUE — Mike Gomez has been angry with the police officer here who shot and killed his 22-year-old son, Alan, last year, after officers responded to a report that the young man was acting erratically and firing a rifle.* But Mr. Gomez became even angrier just days ago after he learned that the officer, Sean Wallace, received a $500 payment from the Albuquerque police union shortly after the shooting*.
> 
> The payment, union officials said, was made to help Officer Wallace cope with the stress of the shooting. *But Mr. Gomez said he believed the money served a more ruthless purpose: as a bounty-style reward for a shooting.*
> 
> “You’re telling police that if you shoot somebody you’re going to get paid leave and you’re going to get $500,” said Mr. Gomez, whose son was unarmed when he was shot last May. “If the police shoot a person they get this. What does the family get? A funeral bill.”

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> I wonder if the cops who fired at him will get the $500 bonus to go with the paid vacay ? 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us...anted=all&_r=0

----------


## phill4paul

> Yup.
> 
> Dance muthafuckas, dance.
> 
> Fail to dance and we kill you and get away with it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Wouldn't it be because they are ashamed of what they are doing?


Nah... they should be but they love it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> and dont ya just love how they handcuff a dead man? i wonder if these same type of pussy cops go into a funeral with weapons drawn just in case the dead guy in the casket might be armed?
> 
> hmmmm i think i just made a joke/insult for my standup routine there ! cops better not come to my show lol


That just freaked me the hell out.  They could clearly see the bullet hole smack dab in the center of his head and they slapped the handcuffs on him... WTF?!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> From LiveLeak comments:


Why does that comment say he was mentally ill?  I saw nothing in the video to suggest that.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Why does that comment say he was mentally ill?  I saw nothing in the video to suggest that.


I saw mentally ill people in that video and they all had guns.

----------


## muh_roads

It should be apparent by now that law enforcement is recruiting lower than average IQ mundanes, intentionally.

Rational people that know cameras are watching them wouldn't do this.  If I was a cop, I'd be scared $#@!less of how I handle myself if I knew of so many cameras are around me.  What good is the patrol car cam, or any cam, if they just keep giving these $#@!s a slap on the wrist?

Some of these cops are really $#@!ing dumb.  But the bad behavior keeps being rewarded if they can get away with it.  The police chiefs and other various positions of higher authority would rather increase their yearly salary than do the right thing.  When profiting from others breaking the law, it becomes a moral hazard.

Any time this happens, the department MUST have its funding reduced for the next fiscal year.  Not increased if they spend it all.

Something needs to change.

----------


## SeanTX

I think it has more to do with arrogance than stupidity. They know that they can do whatever they want, and get away with it 99% of the time. We let them do it -- this will go before a grand jury, and those dummies will vote "no bill."

----------


## CPUd

> Why does that comment say he was mentally ill?  I saw nothing in the video to suggest that.


He probably got it from local reports that claim he has a history of mental illness.  Or if he was really a former officer, he might have known the guy.

----------


## Mani

Well I'm glad the cops kept us safe from......campers.  Because those illegal campers really do a lot of bad things in this world, like camping....

Thank you officers.

----------


## rambone

*Homeless man shot to death by police while illegally camping in the foothills of NM | Police State USA*

----------


## fr33

Don't ya just love how he "law and order" freaks also enjoy western movies. They'd hire a sheriff to kill off every cowboy and pioneer.

----------


## Mani

> *Homeless man shot to death by police while “illegally camping” in the foothills of NM | Police State USA*




This image is epic.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> What the &^% is wrong with New Mexico
> 
> If that video wasnt so terribly tragic you would think it is some kind of Parody... Flashbang while he is cooperating, then shoot him in cold blood? What the actual ... Oh he's motionless on the ground, after we shot him 4-5 times in the back! OMG he has knives! BEANBAG BEANBAG and then SICK THE DOG AT HIM
> 
> Absurd. Truly absurd paramilitaries


I know a know a former Sheriff in NM who hates and despises most NM police.  One of the few good guys who can't really affect much outside of Torrence County.

----------


## JK/SEA

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

bears repeating.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Justice demands a slow-roast incineration.  The heretics of liberty must be burned, and their souls cleansed with righteous flame.


The night is dark and full of terror.




> From the article.
> 
> Chief Eden said officers fired because *Boyd made a direct threat at the canine officer who was unarmed*
> 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8aa_1...CkCu2yqFjpF.99
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Cop dogs are armed?


I wonder what Chief Eden would have to say about a cop who shot a canine mundane who was unarmed.

Actually, I don't ... (funny, ain't it? I guess cop dogs don't have teeth like mundane dogs do ...)

----------


## AuH20

Society has been become so depraved that our cops have slowly transformed into the monsters that they were trained to apprehend. This phenomenom isn't about just cops. It's an entire breakdown of society as we know it.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Mayor: Wrong to say Albuquerque shooting justified
> 
> ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — In a rare show of displeasure with the troubled Police Department, Albuquerque Mayor Richard Berry said Monday it was wrong for the new police chief to say officers were justified in killing a homeless camper in the Sandia foothills.
> 
> Berry also said he wants to bring in outsiders to help investigate the killing that came as the department is under federal scrutiny after notching three dozen shootings since 2010.
> 
> Berry criticized Police Chief Gorden Eden for making a premature judgment about the fatal shooting of 38-year-old James Boyd on March 16.
> 
> *"The chief got asked an honest question and he gave an honest answer," Berry said. "Unfortunately, it was premature and a mistake, and that will not happen again."*
> ...


http://news.yahoo.com/mayor-wrong-al...002519821.html

----------


## AuH20

> It should be apparent by now that law enforcement is recruiting lower than average IQ mundanes, intentionally.
> 
> Rational people that know cameras are watching them wouldn't do this.  If I was a cop, I'd be scared $#@!less of how I handle myself if I knew of so many cameras are around me.  What good is the patrol car cam, or any cam, if they just keep giving these $#@!s a slap on the wrist?
> 
> Some of these cops are really $#@!ing dumb.  But the bad behavior keeps being rewarded if they can get away with it.  The police chiefs and other various positions of higher authority would rather increase their yearly salary than do the right thing.  When profiting from others breaking the law, it becomes a moral hazard.
> 
> Any time this happens, the department MUST have its funding reduced for the next fiscal year.  Not increased if they spend it all.
> 
> Something needs to change.


Like I just posted earlier, it's all-encompassing social issue. We're essentially handing over incredible power to those who have not acquired the proper knowledge & self-discipline to wield such power. You would never see a U.S. marine conduct himself in such a manner. The criminals today are scum like we've never seen, but by the same token our cops have become progressively worse as well.

----------


## tod evans

> Society has been become so depraved that our cops have slowly transformed into the monsters that they were trained to apprehend. This phenomenom isn't about just cops. It's an entire breakdown of society as we know it.


In all fairness every one of those 'fine officers' must be charged in this murder.

If you and I gather a group of friends or acquaintances to accost someone and one of us kills a man we all stand trial for murder...

Anything less is a continued aberration of justice.

----------


## AuH20

> Just watched the press conference by the police chief...
> 
> http://video.abqjournal.com/Foothill...7#.Uy3AFIWih9Q
> 
> He's up there calling it justified, but his face isnt lying. He looks like he is about to burst into tears any moment.
> 
> I don't give him a pass for that because as the new police chief he is supposed to stand for some kind of reform, but I'd imagine pressure from the Police Union and other groups makes any kind of push for decency labelled as traitorous.
> 
> *Gut police departments and give them sporks, AND *#$& THE MILITARY CONTRACTORS FLOODING THESE DEPARTMENTS WITH PARAMILITARY GEAR AND TRAINING (and the Federal funds that pay for it)*


Most of the police departments around the country are poorly trained, if you're comparing them to the U.S. military. In any semblance of a fair fight, they probably lose.

----------


## AuH20

> In all fairness every one of those 'fine officers' must be charged in this murder.
> 
> If you and I gather a group of friends or acquaintances to accost someone and one of us kills a man we all stand trial for murder...
> 
> Anything less is a continued aberration of justice.


Most cops nowadays are intellectually lazy and not emotionally equipped to deal with the incredible rigors of police work. It's the hardest job in the world (typically forced to make value judgements almost instantaneously) with a bullseye on your back 24/7. The monetary gain simply isn't worth it, which is illustrated by the abnormally high suicide rates. The recent trends show that more and more applicants think they can bludgeon and shoot themselves to the top of the department, which would ultimately make you no different than the criminal.

----------


## tod evans

> Most cops nowadays are intellectually lazy and not emotionally equipped to deal with the incredible rigors of police work. It's the hardest job in the world with a bullseye on your back 24/7. The monetary gain simply isn't worth it, which is illustrated by the abnormally high suicide rates. The recent trends show that more and more applicants think they can bludgeon and shoot themselves to the top of the department, which would ultimately make you no different than the criminal.


What does this have to do with trying the whole gang for the crime they committed?

----------


## AuH20

> What does this have to do with trying the whole gang for the crime they committed?


Nothing. But based on these threads, a casual observer could conclude that we should eliminate police departments altogether when it isn't that simple. Worse criminals = worse cops. Then throw in the allure of all the tax dollars and it really becomes an immoral mess. It's self-fulfilling prophecy that we must reverse. With that said, the entire group should be prosecuted.

----------


## tod evans

If the DA hasn't brought charges yet then he must be indicted too as an accessory after the fact...

I'm so sick of this BS!........

----------


## AuH20

AR-15.com is melting down with this one!!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/160...e.html&page=36

A vet weighs in:




> *Funny how military guys are not climbing all over GD to defend $#@! like My Lai or the Mahmudiyah killings. We don't blurt "You don't know, you weren't there." We sack the $#@! up and don't make apologies for things like that but cops, every time, no matter what will defend murders and $#@!ups. Here you go, try saying just once that the police $#@!ed up and committed homicide. The honesty will be refreshing.*


More info on the event:




> *I read up on this at PoliceOne.com last night. The stand off was 5 hours. Patrol officers responded to a 911 call and the suspect reportedly acted irrationally, displayed knives, and threatened the responding officers. They backed off and attempted to negotiate. APD had reportedly fired two shotgun taser cartridges that had no effect, probably because of the clothing, and bean bag rounds that were ineffective before.* 
> 
> From the video I think the plan was to distract with the FB and then have the K9 subdue the suspect. This obviously failed, the handler moved in, and his close cover officer moved forward with him and appears to be who took the first shots at close range. The suspect was clearly an imminent threat, which is the standard that SCOTUS and the NCGS 15A-401(d)(2) set for the use of Deadly Force. No idea what New Mexico law states. But legally you don't have to be an immediate threat, just an imminent threat to cause death or serious physical injury for anyone, officer or private citizen, to use deadly force to protect themselves or a third-party from that threat. 
> 
> It doesn't look like there was a back up plan, or if there was the dog and handlers actions placed the cover team in a bad situation and forced them (in my opinion, based on my training and experience) to take the actions that they did. Ultimately it was the suspects use of deadly weapons to resist arrest (pulling a knife and threatening the responding officers changed this from trespassing to Assault with a Deadly Weapon) and refusal to comply that determined how events took place. 
> 
> Either way it is a tragedy for all involved.


So what if he is a sovereign citizen with a spotty record with police? Does it justify escalating it to a life/death scenario over something as frivolous as unlicensed camping? Really? Who the hell was making the decisions there? The cops took the resistance and threats personal & in turn were subsconsciously intent on shooting the camper.  That's what happened.

----------


## AuH20

BEST COMMENT EVER!!!!




> *The penalty for illegal camping is death. 
> 
> At the same time, in the same state, 1,000 illegals come across the border. 
> 
> Camping is much more of a priority than the illegal invasion.*

----------


## pcosmar

> Nothing. But based on these threads, a casual observer could conclude that we should eliminate police departments altogether when it isn't that simple.


Yes it is just that simple. Eliminate them.
They should not exist and are more dangerous than any common criminal.

The only choice is,, An Authoritarian society or a Free society.

it is just that simple.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> AR-15.com is melting down with this one!!
> 
> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/160...e.html&page=36
> 
> A vet weighs in:
> 
> 
> 
> More info on the event:
> ...


Why was this guy trying to justify the action of a New Mexico municipal police officer, with North Carolina General Statutes?

----------


## AuH20

> Yes it is just that simple. Eliminate them.
> They should not exist and are more dangerous than any common criminal.
> 
> The only choice is,, An Authoritarian society or a Free society.
> 
> it is just that simple.


What about serial killers and other unrepentant sociopaths? Should we just let them go about their business? Last I checked, I don't have a forensics lab in my house. Police are a necessary evil, but they have strayed far from their mission statement due to social defects. And for the record, I would have no qualms about moving more departments to privately funded status as opposed to the status quo. The entire profession needs to be weened off it's political roots.

----------


## jllundqu

That situation could have been handled 100 different ways, none of which would have involved shooting a crazy homeless guy for camping.  There is an entire police doctrine on non-lethal encounters/tactics that should have been used here.

They were looking for an 'opportunity' to shoot, imo.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> What about serial killers and other unrepentant sociopaths? Should we just let them go about their business. Last I checked, I don't have a forensics lab in my house. Police are a necessary evil, but they have strayed far from their mission statement due social defects.


My County Sheriff has a forensics lab.

----------


## AuH20

> Why was this guy trying to justify the action of a New Mexico municipal police officer, with North Carolina General Statutes?


A member of the Shield I presume.

----------


## Dr.3D

> That situation could have been handled 100 different ways, none of which would have involved shooting a crazy homeless guy for camping.  There is an entire police doctrine on non-lethal encounters/tactics that should have been used here.
> 
> They were looking for an 'opportunity' to shoot, imo.


That's what I thought.   Looked like they were making the entire episode into some kind of training exercise and wanted to include the dog in it as well.

----------


## AuH20

> That situation could have been handled 100 different ways, none of which would have involved shooting a crazy homeless guy for camping.  There is an entire police doctrine on *non-lethal encounters/tactics* that should have been used here.
> 
> They were looking for an 'opportunity' to shoot, imo.


I think they had unsuccessfully tazed him earlier at the campsite. But that's not really important, when they had him outgunned 3 to 1 with a canine!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

North Carolina General Statutes
§ 15A-401.  Arrest by law-enforcement officer.
(d)       Use of Force in Arrest. -(2)        A law-enforcement officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified in subdivision (1) of this subsection only when it is or appears to be reasonably necessary thereby:a.         To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force;
b.         To effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of a person who he reasonably believes is attempting to escape by means of a deadly weapon, or who by his conduct or any other means indicates that he presents an imminent threat of death or serious physical injury to others unless apprehended without delay; or
c.         To prevent the escape of a person from custody imposed upon him as a result of conviction for a felony.
Nothing in this subdivision constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by any person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.

----------


## AuH20

The appreciable harm 'radius' for a knive wielding assailant is 21 feet? On a rocky incline, how effective could the camper be, in order to close that type of distance? It's illogical.

----------


## Snew

> BEST COMMENT EVER!!!!


zomg the mexicans are coming! 

give me a break.

----------


## AuH20

> zomg the mexicans are coming! 
> 
> give me a break.


I wouldn't go that far, but the double standard is astounding. In New Mexico, the authorities help migrant travelers set up camp.

----------


## fisharmor

> Nothing. But based on these threads, a casual observer could conclude that we should eliminate police departments altogether


_Could?_

*HEY, CASUAL OBSERVER: I, AND OTHERS ON THIS SITE, ARE DIRECTLY CALLING FOR THE IMMEDIATE ABOLISHMENT OF THE CONSTABULARY.
PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME OTHERWISE.
*



> It's the hardest job in the world (typically forced to make value judgements almost instantaneously) with a bullseye on your back 24/7. The monetary gain simply isn't worth it, which is illustrated by the abnormally high suicide rates. The recent trends show that more and more applicants think they can bludgeon and shoot themselves to the top of the department, which would ultimately make you no different than the criminal.


Hi, welcome to Ron Paul Forums.
You're obviously new here, so let me clue you in on something that's been repeated often for the last couple years: Police work doesn't even rank in the top 10 dangerous jobs in America.

Also, I'll thank you to back up your suicide rate facts with some links.

----------


## Wadesc

> Most of the police departments around the country are poorly trained, if you're comparing them to the U.S. military. In any semblance of a fair fight, they probably lose.


I think you misunderstood. I'm talking about militarization of local police forces who purchase military gear and training, many times with Federal "Homeland Security" funds.

----------


## fisharmor

> What about serial killers and other unrepentant sociopaths? Should we just let them go about their business? Last I checked, I don't have a forensics lab in my house. Police are a necessary evil, but they have strayed far from their mission statement due to social defects. And for the record, I would have no qualms about moving more departments to privately funded status as opposed to the status quo. The entire profession needs to be weened off it's political roots.


You're like those people who think that mandatory air bags in cars are the best idea in the world, completely ignoring that there is still no mandate for antilock brakes.
Sure, get in all the accidents you want, you'll live through it now!

Or.......... you could approach it from the angle that it's better not to wreck your car.
Likewise, you could realize that localities with liberal carry laws enjoy a drastically lower violent crime rate than areas with draconian gun laws.
All that fancy forensics work isn't necessary to figure out that the dead guy in your living room at 3am whom you've never seen before in your life is probably dead for a justified reason.

----------


## pcosmar

> What about serial killers and other unrepentant sociopaths?


What about them?,, they are as they always have been,, a very small % of humans. 

an armed citizen would likely remove them from society,, if it was not discouraged.

As it is they are given jobs with the government and protected,, as we see in this case.

And Police are NOT a necessary evil. 
They are a invention of Authoritarianism. From the very Definition of the word Police,, which means *to CONTROL*
They are a tool of authoritarian Government and should not exist at all in a free society

In a free society the people can and will police themselves. People will enforce laws that people will enforce.

----------


## fisharmor

Mmmmm..... serial killers..... best not to be an undesirable.  Then the constabulary's level of givea$#@! tanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_serial_killer

But, I'm sure this is the best situation we can hope for, right Au?

----------


## Occam's Banana

> What about serial killers and other unrepentant sociopaths? [...] Police are a necessary evil, but they have strayed far from their mission statement due to social defects.


Police are NOT a necessary evil.
It is NOT their job to "protect" or "serve" anyone (except the elites who pay them).
It is NOT their job to defend society from boogeymen like "serial killers" and "unrepentant sociopaths."
It is their job to collect revenues and enforce rules on behalf of State elites. THAT is their only "mission statement."
Everything else is just public-relations pablum for making the pill go down easier.

----------


## Philhelm

> Police are a necessary evil, but they have strayed far from their mission statement due to social defects.


Evil is never necessary.  Evil must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice.

----------


## SeanTX

> AR-15.com is melting down with this one!!


ARFCOM general discussion is a pretty good place to go to see the mentality of many (most?) police officers. There was a 75 page discussion of the Kelly Thomas beating death, and every single LEO that posted thought it was perfectly justifiable to beat him to death, for "failure to follow officer commands."

----------


## AuH20

> You're like those people who think that mandatory air bags in cars are the best idea in the world, completely ignoring that there is still no mandate for antilock brakes.
> Sure, get in all the accidents you want, you'll live through it now!
> 
> Or.......... you could approach it from the angle that it's better not to wreck your car.
> Likewise, you could realize that localities with liberal carry laws enjoy a drastically lower violent crime rate than areas with draconian gun laws.
> All that fancy forensics work isn't necessary to figure out that the dead guy in your living room at 3am whom you've never seen before in your life is probably dead for a justified reason.


I don't think mandates are necessary. If you want to remove your air bags so be it. 

As far as police, aside from the ones in suburban areas who write up tickets all day, it's an extremely stressful and depressing profession in highly infested crime areas. Every day you're seeing the worst prospects of your fellow man in graphic detail. It's common knowledge that police officers are highly susceptible to suicide, alcoholism and divorce:

http://www.officer.com/article/10850...s-drop-in-2012




> The bad news is it didn’t drop enough.  126 law enforcement officers committed suicide last year.  Additionally, in 2012, 129 officers “died in the line on duty”.  This is sad folks.  Way too many officers are dying.  And even worse, cops are killing themselves at the same rate as they do in the line of duty. 
> 
> This national study of police suicides (NSOPS) has only completed two other studies related to police suicide, those were in 2008 and 2009.  There were 141 suicides and 143 suicides respectively.  So yes, compared, to 3 years ago there has been a 12% drop in the suicide rate.  Whereas, the “in the line of duty” deaths dropped 22% in 2012 compared to 2011.  I don’t know how many of the in line of duty deaths could have been deemed preventable.  I do know that every single death by suicide by was preventable.  The average age of the suicidal officers was 42 years, the average years on the job was 16. 
> 
> *Suicides can happen in any profession, but they occur 1.5 times more frequently in law enforcement compared to the general population.  LEOs kill themselves at a rate of 18/100,000 vs. 12/100,000 of the rest of the US.*  Quite truthfully, the actual rate is probably higher as law enforcement suicides are more likely to be underreported or misclassified as accidental deaths. This misclassification usually occurs to protect the family, other survivors, or the agency from the stigma of suicide.

----------


## AuH20

> What about them?,, they are as they always have been,, a very small % of humans. 
> 
> an armed citizen would likely remove them from society,, if it was not discouraged.
> 
> As it is they are given jobs with the government and protected,, as we see in this case.
> 
> And Police are NOT a necessary evil. 
> They are a invention of Authoritarianism. From the very Definition of the word Police,, which means *to CONTROL*
> They are a tool of authoritarian Government and should not exist at all in a free society
> ...


There were always be some form of security force, whether it be sheriff, constable or police. Granted, today we have too much law enforcement masquerading as revenue generators and personal security for a select few, but there still remains a need for an organized unit to handle tasks that not everyone has the time to handle. There is nothing wrong with the concept of a policeman, aside from the perversion that you see today.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Suicides can happen in any profession, but they occur 1.5 times more frequently in law enforcement compared to the general population. LEOs kill themselves at a rate of 18/100,000 vs. 12/100,000 of the rest of the US.


 -- officer.com

How many have served a war?

What is_ that_ rate?

Hmm.

----------


## AuH20

> Evil is never necessary.  Evil must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice.


And criminals still need a deterrent, even if this entire construct is flawed. What do you think would happen in certain areas if the police suddenly disappeared? It would be bedlam. Today's police do little to prevent actual crimes, but they serve a critical purpose in some instances. People are brewing with so much hate for cops (some of it is warranted) that they can't seem to think clearly about their utilitarian role.

----------


## AuH20

> -- officer.com
> 
> How many have served a war?
> 
> What is_ that_ rate?
> 
> Hmm.


From personal experience, many of the cops I know are miserable people, thanks to an over-saturation of negativity.  Imagine if your job solely consisted of being called to investigate domestic disturbances, suicides, shootings and other disturbing events? I think there is a threshold on misery that the average human can tolerate.

----------


## fr33

> From personal experience, many of the cops I know are miserable people, thanks to an over-saturation of negativity.  Imagine if your job solely consisted of being called to investigate domestic disturbances, suicides, shootings and other disturbing events? I think there is a threshold on misery that the average human can tolerate.


While, I don't disagree that their job is full of negativity, I do disagree with what you claim it "solely consists of". They have a negative outlook because they spend most of their time creating victims from victimless crimes. Your average cop does not run around killing murderers frequently. They stalk people and look for reasons to ticket them. It pisses those people off and makes them hate the cops. That's where the negativity comes from.

----------


## pcosmar

> And criminals still need a deterrent, even if this entire construct is flawed. What do you think would happen in certain areas if the police suddenly disappeared? It would be bedlam.


No. it would not.

I grew up with no police. I had absolutely no contact with Police till high school, (and one put a gun to my head)

And this country had no police for decades before they were invented. People enforced the laws..  
It was their responsibility. People will not tolerate thieves, or rapists, or murders.

Hanging in the town square is a deterrent,, Armed citizens are a deterrent.

Police were invented to enforce laws that the common man would not enforce.. To enforce the hundreds of stupid and capricious laws that have been forced on society. 

Police should not exist in a free society. 
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm



> The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement.  Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding.  Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government.  Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.

----------


## AuH20

> While, I don't disagree that their job is full of negativity, I do disagree with what you claim it "solely consists of". They have a negative outlook because they spend most of their time creating victims from victimless crimes. Your average cop does not run around killing murderers frequently. They stalk people and look for reasons to ticket them. It pisses those people off and makes them hate the cops. That's where the negativity comes from.


The modern incarnation of law enforcement is twisted. I'm not disagreeing with you there. We need signficantly less laws. We need to detach law enforcement as far as possible from political influence. And we need to take back our wayward society from the megalomaniacs. Our current ratio of cop to citizens is frankly overkill.

----------


## AuH20

> ARFCOM general discussion is a pretty good place to go to see the mentality of many (most?) police officers. There was a 75 page discussion of the Kelly Thomas beating death, and every single LEO that posted thought it was perfectly justifiable to beat him to death, for "failure to follow officer commands."


AR-15 forums is gradually getting better in terms of viewpoint and tolerance, but it's still no bastion of freedom. I've been permabanned twice there, by one overbearing LEO moderator in particular. Some of the mods over there are extremely statist and heavy handed. They like to join in the 'fun' sometimes as well, with ad hominems instead of actually thoughtful dialogue.

----------


## pcosmar

> The modern incarnation of law enforcement is twisted. I'm not disagreeing with you there.


Good, that is a place to start.
*
Who is considered the Father of Professional Policing?* (Sir Robert Peel.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Peel

From *England,, (who we had broken away from previously) 
An authoritarian society. A monarchy (dictatorship)

That is where "Police" were invented.

* also famous for Fabian Socialism,,which has also infected this country.

----------


## AuH20

Another combat vet weighs in (taken from ARF thread). Note the difference in mentality from LEO to MIL?




> *I've discharged my weapon into people before. I didn't cry about it 
> 
> This situation still bothers me ..knowing it could have ended different... 
> 
> Bothers me to see life devalued back home. The guy obviously needed help.. not lead*

----------


## fisharmor

> I don't think mandates are necessary. If you want to remove your air bags so be it.


( click ) Aaaaaaaaaand, if you look directly overhead, you'll see the point of my earlier comment.  We'll be serving soft drinks shortly.




> As far as police, aside from the ones in suburban areas who write up tickets all day, it's an extremely stressful and depressing profession in highly infested crime areas. Every day you're seeing the worst prospects of your fellow man in graphic detail.


And the most stressful and depressing part of your comment is how you are utterly failing to connect how police work has anything to do with crime rate.
If anything, it has the opposite of the effect everyone says it has.
Suburban areas with very few police have low crime rates, and urban $#@!holes with terrible crime rates have the highest number of police.
If you're drawing conclusions, the only one to draw is that the cops cause the crime.

I honestly believe that.  And since you missed it the last time, I'll spell it out: 
They cause crime because
a) those areas have draconian gun laws
b) police are sissy little pansies who are afraid of getting even the slightest bit hurt
c) otherwise law-abiding citizens with a defensive firearm or a tiny bit of the wrong plants make a much easier target than hardened criminals
d) Police are no different from any other government agency: success in their goal would result in reduced funding, but failing their goal results in increased funding
e) It's therefore 100% in their interest to let real problems fester while locking up as many black teenage boys as they can get their hands on.





> It's common knowledge that police officers are highly susceptible to suicide, alcoholism and divorce:


No, it's not common knowledge, which is why I asked for evidence.
I also want to know what percentage of those were veterans and still dealing with those demons.
Further, I want to know how many of those suicides were people who realized they were trapped in a system that is intrinsically evil and had no way of escape.
Moreover, I'd like to know how many of those suicides were "suicides" in the same way that mundanes frequently commit suicide: by crossing the thin blue line.

Lastly, I'd like to know why I should even give a $#@!, since they murder, rape, and rob us with impunity.




> There were always be some form of security force, whether it be sheriff, constable or police. Granted, today we have too much law enforcement masquerading as revenue generators and personal security for a select few, but there still remains a need for an organized unit to handle tasks that not everyone has the time to handle. There is nothing wrong with the concept of a policeman, aside from the perversion that you see today.


The perversion that you see today is no different than the perversion that existed in the 19th century when police were invented.
A security force is not a sheriff is not a constable.
The definition of police is to actively patrol and look for trouble.  That is what differentiates it from the other types of law enforcement.

We ought not act too surprised when people that we've instructed to go out looking for trouble choose to find it.




> And criminals still need a deterrent, even if this entire construct is flawed. What do you think would happen in certain areas if the police suddenly disappeared? It would be bedlam. Today's police do little to prevent actual crimes, but they serve a critical purpose in some instances. People are brewing with so much hate for cops (some of it is warranted) that they can't seem to think clearly about their utilitarian role.


Dude, do you actually believe this $#@!?
Where does individual gun ownership factor into your worldview, if at all?
In the middle of the night when some creep crawls into my daughter's window with a meat cleaver, what do police have to do with anything?
Do you realize you're seriously advocating a police force that shines a light in my daughter's window every 60 seconds and looks to see if anyone's actively hurting her?
How else can you possibly say that they prevent or stop crime?

I think you need to move to Montgomery County, MD.  Or maybe Anacostia.
You should live in the type of $#@!hole you seem to advocate for a while, and you should do it just on the other side of a river that separates you from a place where people are allowed to own guns and carry them around.
Then maybe you'll understand that the police don't have a thing to do with crime rates.




> From personal experience, many of the cops I know are miserable people, thanks to an over-saturation of negativity.  Imagine if your job solely consisted of being called to investigate domestic disturbances, suicides, shootings and other disturbing events? I think there is a threshold on misery that the average human can tolerate.


I'll tell you the same thing I told everyone who was so miserable during the federal sequesters last year.
_If you're that miserable, then quit.  Nobody's making you work there._

But they're not going to quit, are they?
No, because it's not really as miserable as all that, is it?

It's a job, and everyone bitches about their job, and people who get free stuff from restaurants, speed wherever they want, take people's possessions whenever they want, and outright murder folk and get away with it Scot free (and with a 2-week paid vacation to boot) ought to simply shut the $#@! up about how miserable their job is.

----------


## Philhelm

> It's a job, and everyone bitches about their job, and people who get free stuff from restaurants, speed wherever they want, take people's possessions whenever they want, and outright murder folk and get away with it Scot free (and with a 2-week paid vacation to boot) ought to simply shut the $#@! up about how miserable their job is.


FINISH HIM!!!

fisharmor.  Flawless Victory.

----------


## SeanTX

*A*nother *P*erson *D*ead .  Witnesses say he was holding a cell phone, trying to surrender. If so, it looks like another APD execution. 

http://krqe.com/2014/03/26/following...nother-man/?mn



> Man dies following overnight APD shooting
> By Samantha McDonald Updated: Wednesday, March 26, 2014, 9:17 am Published: Wednesday, March 26, 2014, 6:56 am
> 
> ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – Another fatal APD shooting took place Tuesday night, following a protest against the department just 10 days after the fatal foothills shooting that brought national attention and more scrutiny to the city’s police.
> 
> This shooting went down on the far west side of Albuquerque near Central and 60th Street.
> 
> APD Chief Gorden Eden was out in the area at about 1:30 a.m. Wednesday and *said a man came out of his house and shot at police, who returned his fire.
> *
> ...

----------


## AuH20

> And the most stressful and depressing part of your comment is how you are utterly failing to connect how police work has anything to do with crime rate.
> If anything, it has the opposite of the effect everyone says it has.
> Suburban areas with very few police have low crime rates, and urban $#@!holes with terrible crime rates have the highest number of police.
> If you're drawing conclusions, the only one to draw is that the cops cause the crime.


You did see what happened post-Katrina? Every animal emerged out of their respective hole and started terrorizing local shops & citizenry. It was a free-for-all once law enforcement ran for the hills. We can agree that contemporary police are overbearing and counterproductive, but you can't prove that they don't deter crime. That's just not reality. The problem is that when one adopts a particular philosophy they must twist and contort the facts to meet their world view. I don't do that. I integrate libertarian values into my life, but reality isn't malleable. Not everything fits neatly into it's slot out here.





> I honestly believe that.  And since you missed it the last time, I'll spell it out: 
> They cause crime because
> a) those areas have draconian gun laws
> b) police are sissy little pansies who are afraid of getting even the slightest bit hurt
> c) otherwise law-abiding citizens with a defensive firearm or a tiny bit of the wrong plants make a much easier target than hardened criminals
> d) Police are no different from any other government agency: success in their goal would result in reduced funding, but failing their goal results in increased funding
> e) It's therefore 100% in their interest to let real problems fester while locking up as many black teenage boys as they can get their hands on.


There isn't one silver bullet solution to high crime areas. The people inhabiting those areas are generally damaged, thanks to generational neglect. Citizen gun ownership would certainly aid greatly in preventing crime, but it must be a multi-spectrum effort. Is a gun really going to save you, if an organized criminal syndicate wants your goods or property (see Rhodesia)? 




> No, it's not common knowledge, which is why I asked for evidence.
> I also want to know what percentage of those were veterans and still dealing with those demons.
> Further, I want to know how many of those suicides were people who realized they were trapped in a system that is intrinsically evil and had no way of escape.
> Moreover, I'd like to know how many of those suicides were "suicides" in the same way that mundanes frequently commit suicide: by crossing the thin blue line.
> 
> Lastly, I'd like to know why I should even give a $#@!, since they murder, rape, and rob us with impunity.


Like I stated earlier, it's not a profession where you can remain unscathed from sensory overload,  unless you're tied to a desk or assigned traffic routes.




> The perversion that you see today is no different than the perversion that existed in the 19th century when police were invented.
> A security force is not a sheriff is not a constable.
> The definition of police is to actively patrol and look for trouble.  That is what differentiates it from the other types of law enforcement.
> 
> We ought not act too surprised when people that we've instructed to go out looking for trouble choose to find it.


You remind me of the ranchers in Wyoming who wanted to kill all the Grey Wolves near Yosesmite, which forever changed the ecosystem for the worse. There must be a balance maintained in our society, whether it be a peace keeper or criminal. You can't simply say that since a plurality of these peace keepers are acting badly, that in turn we must eliminate their entire function, causing a massive destabilization in the process.  




> Dude, do you actually believe this $#@!?
> Where does individual gun ownership factor into your worldview, if at all?
> In the middle of the night when some creep crawls into my daughter's window with a meat cleaver, what do police have to do with anything?
> Do you realize you're seriously advocating a police force that shines a light in my daughter's window every 60 seconds and looks to see if anyone's actively hurting her?
> How else can you possibly say that they prevent or stop crime?


Gun ownership goes a long way in promoting civil defense, but it's not the all encompassing solution to crime prevention. I disagree.




> I'll tell you the same thing I told everyone who was so miserable during the federal sequesters last year.
> _If you're that miserable, then quit.  Nobody's making you work there._
> 
> But they're not going to quit, are they?
> No, because it's not really as miserable as all that, is it?
> 
> It's a job, and everyone bitches about their job, and people who get free stuff from restaurants, speed wherever they want, take people's possessions whenever they want, and outright murder folk and get away with it Scot free (and with a 2-week paid vacation to boot) ought to simply shut the $#@! up about how miserable their job is.


Sometimes high wages and a generous pension aren't worth a peace of mind.

----------


## pcosmar

> You did see what happened post-Katrina?


Yup,




And that doesn't even cover the Police murders and the Gun confiscation.

Katrina was a self inflicted wound.. and preparation for more Police State.

----------


## Shredmonster

What is ironic is if our soldiers in Afgahnastan or Iraq did this they would be prosecuted !   These cops need to be prosecuted.  This was murder plain and simple.   Sociopaths.
Citizen groups that start putting pressure on prosecution of these kind of events is needed.

----------


## Constitutional Paulicy



----------


## Lucille

http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/C...-are-no-words/




> ...such brute slaughter has become acceptable. Common.
> 
> No decent human being could have participated in this long, drawn-out murder. No decent human being could condone it. No law could justify it. The agents of the state that committed this vicious crime should be treated no differently than the followers of Charles Manson. They are thrill killers, nothing more. They are no better than the rest of their ilk, from Charles Starkweather to Ted Bundy. May they get what they deserve — and then some.

----------


## DamianTV

I think Ghandi had it correct: Poverty is the worst form of Violence.  This is what happens when Poverty is a Crime.

----------


## phill4paul

So have the murderers made bail yet? What was it set at?

----------


## Mani

> Yup,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that doesn't even cover the Police murders and the Gun confiscation.
> 
> Katrina was a self inflicted wound.. and preparation for more Police State.


+ rep Pcosmar

Katrina??


The cops took over 1,000 guns illegally from citizens.  4th and 2nd amendment out the window as they marched from home to home and grabbed people's guns and then told them to fend for themselves.  Sometimes they marched in, pointed their guns at law abiding citizens, and said, "hand over your guns or we shoot." and that was that.  Either your die that moment or you hand your gun over to a cop.

http://www.examiner.com/article/feds...play-into-case
_
"...Specifically, we are talking about the cops, apparently from New York who seized, at gunpoint, two rifles from brothers Buell and Rodney Teel on the waters of Lake Pontchartrain, and the Highway Patrolmen, apparently from California, who body-slammed frail Patricia Konie in her own home just to take away from her the vintage Colt revolver she showed them to prove she could take care of herself. She was hurt so badly by that physical assault that she required surgery."_  (She's an OLD OLD lady...Somebody's grandma)

_
"...Police Superintendent Eddie Compass announced to reporters that nobody but police would have guns..."_
_
"... More than 1,000 firearms were illegally seized by the police and National Guard troopers, without warrant or probable cause, and with no legal authority under existing statute...."_ 



Oh but when Katrina happened, there were looters everywhere!  They came out of the woodwork and everyone suffered as soon as the police disappeared!  "After the police disappeared...with the firearms of all law abiding citizens that is..."

There are plenty of youtube documentaries talking about these cops grabbing guns and damaging them from all the normal trustworthy citizens.

----------


## tod evans

> So have the murderers made bail yet? What was it set at?


I haven't seen where they've even been arrested yet, have you?

----------


## phill4paul

> I haven't seen where they've even been arrested yet, have you?


  Surely they have. With video evidence such as this one would have to be an exceptional citizen to have not been brought up on charges.

----------


## Mani

> Surely they have. With video evidence such as this one would have to be an exceptional citizen to have not been brought up on charges.


I thought that was a Video Game.  Pretty Neat when we flashed banged that guy, as soon as he put his hands forward as the k9 charged, we put a bullet through his head.  Hi-5's all around.  Bonus points for the kill shot.  That was kick ass.  I hope we can watch that again in slo-mo back at the station.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Surely they have. With video evidence such as this one would have to be an exceptional citizen to have not been brought up on charges.


A Secret Indictment, I'm told. The good cops don't want the word to get out to the bad cops that their days of beating, robbing, molesting, torturing, and murdering people are through.

A simultaneous bust should occur soon.

They just can't decide on what super cool name the operation should be called.

"Operation: When Pigs Fly" was ruled out.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You did see what happened post-Katrina? Every animal emerged out of their respective hole and started terrorizing local shops & citizenry. It was a free-for-all once law enforcement ran for the hills. We can agree that contemporary police are overbearing and counterproductive, but you can't prove that they don't deter crime. That's just not reality. The problem is that when one adopts a particular philosophy they must twist and contort the facts to meet their world view. I don't do that. I integrate libertarian values into my life, but reality isn't malleable. Not everything fits neatly into it's slot out here.


I was there and saw it first hand.

Where the people came together and upheld basic law and order, things were never quieter.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> You did see what happened post-Katrina? Every animal emerged out of their respective hole and started terrorizing local shops & citizenry. It was a free-for-all once law enforcement ran for the hills. We can agree that contemporary police are overbearing and counterproductive, but you can't prove that they don't deter crime. That's just not reality. The problem is that when one adopts a particular philosophy they must twist and contort the facts to meet their world view. I don't do that. I integrate libertarian values into my life, but reality isn't malleable. Not everything fits neatly into it's slot out here.


Pretty sure you have that exactly backwards.  When the people were left by themselves they kept the peace without issue.  When the cops got involved they broke old ladies in half, took everyone's guns, and marched people into the Astrodome at gunpoint to get murdered and raped.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> I was there and saw it first hand.
> 
> Where the people came together and upheld basic law and order, things were never quieter.


And where people passively waited for officially State-sanctioned badges & uniforms to come and provide "law and order" for them ...




> When the people were left by themselves they kept the peace without issue.  When the cops got involved they broke old ladies in half, took everyone's guns, and marched people into the Astrodome at gunpoint to get murdered and raped.


... D'OH!!

----------


## fr33

> You did see what happened post-Katrina? Every animal emerged out of their respective hole and started terrorizing local shops & citizenry.


No $#@! and some of those animals were sporting badges. Those particular animals made it easier for the other animals to loot and terrorize.

----------


## SeanTX

Today is "thank a cop day" in Albuquerque. 

http://www.koat.com/news/some-showin...olice/25227852




> Some showing support for Albuquerque police
> Thank a Cop Day planned for Sunday
> Published  10:42 AM MDT Mar 29, 2014
> 
> ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. —Earlier this week, hundreds of demonstrators gathered downtown to protest the Albuquerque Police Department and its use of force.
> 
>      Albuquerque Police Chief Gorden Eden says he does not believe his department has a problem using deadly excessive force.
> 
> There is another movement underway in support of local law enforcement. Hundreds of people have taken to social media and there is an APD logo circulating Facebook supporting the department.
> ...

----------


## tod evans

> Organizers have declared Sunday Thank a Cop Day and are asking people to wave to an officer

----------


## phill4paul

>

----------


## libertyjam

Justice Department Launches Investigation of the Albuquerque, N.M., Police Departments Use of Force

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/N...-crt-1415.html

The Justice Department announced today that it has opened a civil investigation into use of force by the city of Albuquerque, N.M., Police Department (APD).   The investigation will focus on allegations that APD officers engage in use of excessive force, including use of unreasonable deadly force, in their encounters with civilians.  

Through the investigation the department will seek to determine whether APD engages in a pattern or practice of use of excessive force in violation of the Constitution and federal law.   The investigation will include a comprehensive review of the police departments policies, training and systems of accountability.   The investigation will also examine the police departments engagement with the community and external oversight of officer-involved shootings and other force incidents.

----------


## tod evans

> Justice Department Launches Investigation of the Albuquerque, N.M., Police Department’s Use of Force
> 
> http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/N...-crt-1415.html
> 
> The Justice Department announced today that it has opened a civil investigation into use of force by the city of Albuquerque, N.M., Police Department (APD).   The investigation will focus on allegations that APD officers engage in use of excessive force, including use of unreasonable deadly force, in their encounters with civilians.  
> 
> Through the investigation the department will seek to determine whether APD engages in a pattern or practice of use of excessive force in violation of the Constitution and federal law.   The investigation will include a comprehensive review of the police department’s policies, training and systems of accountability.   The investigation will also examine the police department’s engagement with the community and external oversight of officer-involved shootings and other force incidents.


Relying on the "fedgov" to address this BS is only acknowledging their authority.

If "we the people" want our rights protected we can't be lookin' to the very government that usurps them for protection....

----------


## pcosmar

> Relying on the "fedgov" to address this BS is only acknowledging their authority.
> 
> If "we the people" want our rights protected we can't be lookin' to the very government that usurps them for protection....


Yup,, does not inspire confidence.

The "Justice Department" will Justify them.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> Today is "thank a cop day" in Albuquerque. 
> 
> http://www.koat.com/news/some-showin...olice/25227852


Weird Al Yankovic lied to me:

"If one day you happen to wake up and find yourself in an existential  quandary, full of loathing and self-doubt, and wracked with the pain and  isolation of your pitiful and meaningless existence, at least you can  take a small bit of comfort in knowing that somewhere out there in this  crazy old mixed-up universe of ours, there's still a little place called  Albuquerque."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE37e1eK2mY

----------


## Anti Federalist

Copsuckers.




> Some showing support for Albuquerque police
>  Thank a Cop Day planned for Sunday
>  Published 10:42 AM MDT Mar 29, 2014
> 
> ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. Earlier this week, hundreds of demonstrators gathered downtown to protest the Albuquerque Police Department and its use of force.
> 
> Albuquerque Police Chief Gorden Eden says he does not believe his department has a problem using deadly excessive force.
> 
>  There is another movement underway in support of local law enforcement. Hundreds of people have taken to social media and there is an APD logo circulating Facebook supporting the department.
> ...

----------


## phill4paul

And...the video is down. Hmmmm.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> And...the video is down. Hmmmm.


They are getting smarter.  Wait for the obvious outcry to pass before revising the history and throwing the source down the memory hole.

----------


## CCTelander

> Copsuckers.



Disgusting.

----------


## devil21

> Disgusting.


1000 FB likes.  

How many sworn APD officers?  According to Wiki, it's "1100 sworn plus 460 unsworn (as of 2010)". 

They couldn't even get all of their own cops to "like" it.

----------


## SeanTX

It looks like a few uppity mundanes decided to not go along with "thank a cop day." 


http://krqe.com/2014/03/30/second-pr...s-for-justice/




> Protesters march all day Sunday, confront APD
> By Cole Miller and Manette Newbold Fisher Updated: Sunday, March 30, 2014, 7:21 pm Published: Sunday, March 30, 2014, 12:30 pm
> 
> ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – *What was supposed to be a peaceful protest Sunday turned into a clash with police that certainly tested the patience of city officials and APD.
> *
> 
> Hundreds of people upset over the recent fatal police shooting of a homeless man in the foothills held their second protest in less than a week, but the protest took on a life of its own.
> 
> Protesters angry over recent APD shootings gathered at Central and First Street on Sunday and marched toward APD headquarters shouting, “We want justice,” and other chants.
> ...

----------


## phill4paul

> It looks like a few uppity mundanes decided to not go along with "thank a cop day." 
> 
> 
> http://krqe.com/2014/03/30/second-pr...s-for-justice/


  Is it happening?




> However, that's not how Durham Police Chief Jose Lopez sees it. In his report to the city manager, which was obtained Wednesday by ABC11, Lopez reveals for the first time that "undercover officers" were in the crowd.
> 
> Describing the group as "increasingly hostile," police say people wearing black bandanas handed out anarchist literature with tips on how to assault officers and escape. Another undercover officer claims to have seen people picking up "large rocks" and concealing them in "backpacks."
> 
> At first, police said a team in riot gear was at a staging area, out of sight, but as the group moved closer to police headquarters and filled the parking lot, officers formed a line and pushed the crowd back.  
> 
> The report maps out where rocks were thrown from. One of them hit an officer in the face and chest.
> 
> According to the report, the first smoke bomb came from protesters. It was then that officers equipped with tear gas responded.
> ...


 Jesus Huerta. N.C.

----------


## SeanTX

I'm listening to a live stream of the protest still  ongoing  -- cops screaming at people to "get on the sidewalk" . They're probably itching to get some action.

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/6...events/2882953

----------


## Anti Federalist

Anybody got screenshots?


*Hacked Albuquerque police website back online*

http://www.woi-tv.com/story/25113050...-of-protesters

By RUSSELL CONTRERASAssociated Press 

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - The Albuquerque police website is back online after authorities say a cyberattack took it down for hours.

The department couldn't immediately be reached for comment Sunday evening, but said earlier that the site was breached. It was visible late Sunday afternoon after going down in the early afternoon.

Police spokesman Simon Drobik said earlier that the disruption was due to a cyberattack but didn't know the source of the hack.

The attack comes days after a YouTube video emerged threatening retaliation for a recent police shooting that left a homeless man dead. The video that bore the logo of the computer hacking collective Anonymous warned of a cyberattack on city websites and called for a protest march.

Hundreds of protesters were marching Sunday to protest recent police shootings.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – What was supposed to be a peaceful protest Sunday turned into a clash with police that certainly tested the patience of city officials and APD.


Well, you know what?

$#@! $#@!ing you and your patience too.

If *anybody's* patience is worn to a frazzled, thin, breaking point, it us hapless mundanes: beaten, tasered, shot, SWATTed, wrongfully arrested and our pets killed on a daily basis by $#@! cops all across the country.

*$#@! off.*

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – What was supposed to be a peaceful protest Sunday turned into a clash with police that certainly tested the patience of city officials and APD.


Maybe mundanes are all out of patience with their employees not being held accountable for their unlawful actions.




> However, that's not how Durham Police Chief Jose Lopez sees it. In his report to the city manager, which was obtained Wednesday by ABC11, Lopez reveals for the first time that "*undercover officers*" were in the crowd.


So they were the ones throwing stuff.

----------


## phill4paul

> Well, you know what?
> 
> $#@! $#@!ing you and your patience too.
> 
> If *anybody's* patience is worn to a frazzled, thin, breaking point, it us hapless mundanes: beaten, tasered, shot, SWATTed, wrongfully arrested and our pets killed on a daily basis by $#@! cops all across the country.
> 
> *$#@! off.*


  "We don't have time for this." Officer Bryon Vassey Friendly.

----------


## phill4paul

> So they were the ones throwing stuff.


  Knew someone would catch that.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> So they were the ones throwing stuff.


That's becoming SOP.

Have a few undercover cops in the crowd just long enough to stir enough $#@! to justify lighting everybody up.

----------


## phill4paul

> That's becoming SOP.
> 
> Have a few undercover cops in the crowd just long enough to stir enough $#@! to justify lighting everybody up.


  How else to turn a positive peaceful protest into an negative anti-establishment one. Words are a powerful thing and the "JustUS" system, controlled media and politicians know how to use them.

----------


## tod evans

> How else to turn a positive peaceful protest into an negative anti-establishment one. Words are a powerful thing and the "JustUS" system, controlled media and politicians know how to use them.


A prime example;

*Arrests made as Albuquerque mayor says protest over police shootings turns to 'mayhem'*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/31...lice-shooting/

Police in Albuquerque clashed with demonstrators protesting a recent spate of police-involved shootings late Sunday, as the city's mayor said that the situation had degenerated into "mayhem."

Major Richard Berry's office said that at least three people were arrested, while at least one police officer was injured. The Albuquerque Journal reported that protesters threw rocks and at one point trapped police in a vehicle and tried to break the windows. 

An Associated Press reporter saw gas canisters being thrown outside police headquarters and Albuquerque police and Bernalillo County sheriff's deputies charging at the protesters, which mostly dispersed the crowds. However, as of 11:00 p.m. local time Sunday, the Albuquerque Journal reported that fewer than 100 protesters remained in front of police headquarters. 

 "We respected their rights to protest obviously," Berry said, "but what it appears we have at this time is individuals who weren't connected necessarily with the original protest. They've taken it far beyond a normal protest."

Protesters took to the streets in the early afternoon and stayed out late Sunday after authorities declared an unlawful assembly. People are angry over Albuquerque police's involvement in 37 shootings, 23 of them fatal since 2010. Critics say that's far too many for a department serving a city of about 555,000.

The protesters repeatedly marched the 2 miles from downtown Albuquerque to the University of New Mexico, holding signs protesting recent police shootings and often snarling traffic. Motorists honked, and supporters took photos with smartphones. Activists called on various city officials to resign, yelling late Sunday for the police chief to resign.

Justin Elder, 24, followed the protest as a passenger in a car and held a sign that read, "APD: Dressed To Kill."

"That's what this police force is about," Elder said.

Albuquerque police in riot gear and New Mexico State Police followed the marchers, and protesters were seen shouting epithets at officers. At one point, a protester climbed a tall street sign on the city's historic Route 66 and unsuccessfully attempted to bring it down.

A different protester, Alexander Siderits, 23, said he was participating because he was "fed up" with how police treat citizens. "It has reached a boiling point," he said, "and people just can't take it anymore."

The U.S. Justice Department has been investigating the department for more than a year, looking into complaints of civil rights violations and allegations of excessive use of force.

The gathering came days after a YouTube video emerged threatening retaliation for a recent deadly police shooting.

The video, which bore the logo of the computer hacking collective Anonymous, warned of a cyberattack on city websites and called for the protest march. Albuquerque police said their site had been breached early Sunday afternoon, but it was visible late in the afternoon after being offline for hours.

Earlier Sunday, police spokesman Simon Drobik confirmed the disruption was due to a cyberattack and said investigators had not uncovered the source of the hack.

In the shooting on March 16 that led to the YouTube posting Tuesday, a homeless man was killed in the foothills of the Sandia Mountains on the east side of Albuquerque. The shooting was captured on video and followed a long standoff. The FBI has opened an investigation into the shooting.

Last week, Albuquerque police fatally shot a man at a public housing complex. Authorities said he shot at officers before they returned fire.

----------


## fisharmor

Three connected thoughts jumped into my head.

One:



> The U.S. Justice Department has been investigating the department for more than a year, looking into complaints of civil rights violations and allegations of excessive use of force.



A year?  So.... doesn't that mean the feds were alerted to this more than a year prior to this man's murder?
How does that not directly demonstrate that the system is incapable of treating this as anything other than standard operating procedure?


Two:



> "We respected their rights to protest obviously," Berry said, "but what it appears we have at this time is individuals who weren't connected necessarily with the original protest. They've taken it far beyond a normal protest."


Translation: We respect your right to waste a bunch of time and energy earning us some safe overtime.  But we're warning you, you're taking it too far.  We don't like this turn of events.


Three:
So...... without actually spelling it out.....  doesn't this kind of indicate that some actions undertaken by the protesters are actually more effective than others?

----------


## Thor

> However, that's not how Durham Police Chief Jose Lopez sees it. In his report to the city manager, which was obtained Wednesday by ABC11, Lopez reveals for the first time that "undercover officers" were in the crowd.


So, 
"Lopez reveals, for the first time that undercover officers were in the crowd"  (i.e., this was the first time undercover officers were in any crowd of protesters.)

Or 
"Lopez reveals for the first time, that undercover officers were in the crowd" (i.e., this is the first time Lopez has admitted that undercover officers were in a crowd of protesters)





> Describing the group as "increasingly hostile," police say people wearing black bandanas handed out anarchist literature with tips on how to assault officers and escape. Another undercover officer claims to have seen people picking up "large rocks" and concealing them in "backpacks."


Are these ^ the undercover officers -- the ones in black bandanas handing out literature, and picking up large rocks?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

The protestors need to have "Go-Pro" cameras when they take to the streets... It will record the Police and government lies, as well as protect the protestor against the very police and PSYCHO City installing infiltrators to create mayhem.  There should be a law against these government clowns stirring up $#@! in protests and inciting police brutality retaliation, as well as their devious one-sided corporate media reporting.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Is this Medieval Supercop, or just Bane on a horse?

----------


## Carson

> The protestors need to have "Go-Pro" cameras when they take to the streets... It will record the Police and government lies, as well as protect the protestor against the very police and PSYCHO City installing infiltrators to create mayhem.  There should be a law against these government clowns stirring up $#@! in protests and inciting police brutality retaliation, as well as their devious one-sided corporate media reporting.



I was going to mention infiltrators creating problems...

I caught myself and remembered several rallies here where the police showed up, sometimes in uniform sometimes not but they always showed up to protect and try and keep us from getting ourselves in trouble.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> *Mayor calls for action on APD*
> 
> With the city still reeling from the police shooting of transient camper James Boyd in the Sandia foothills more than two weeks ago, Mayor Richard Berry on Wednesday asked the U.S. Department of Justice for help restoring public confidence in APD.
> 
> Calling Boyd’s shooting a “game changer,” Berry also pledged to push a package of training improvements and other reforms that are not just “lip service.”
> 
> Boyd’s shooting as he appeared ready to surrender was captured on video and released by the Albuquerque Police Department. It touched off a national reaction, and has been viewed online more than a million times.
> 
> In a three-page letter to the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ, Berry asked the department to begin monitoring local police as his administration launches a series of reforms aimed at helping officers defuse encounters before they turn violent.
> ...






> *Crisis unit not deployed to Boyd standoff*
> 
> A specialized unit of the Albuquerque Police Department trained to defuse dangerous situations with mentally ill people was not deployed to the Sandia foothills to negotiate with James Boyd on the day he was fatally shot, advocates said.
> 
> Nor was the city’s psychiatrist consulted. Instead, APD deployed officers who deal with repeat offenders.
> 
> Leaders of APD’s Crisis Intervention Team, who met with a community group last week, acknowledged that the team played no role in the five-hour standoff with Boyd on March 16, said Berri Roberts, executive director of the Bernalillo County Forensic Intervention Consortium.
> 
> “They were not called, and they were not out there,” Robert said of the four CIT detectives, who are extensively trained and have daily experience working with mentally ill people.
> ...







> *Illegal Mourners(need permit) pay respects to James Boyd*
> 
> 
> Most all of the mourners who gathered at sunset in the Sandia Foothills on Wednesday had no idea who he was or where he came from, but many still cried at his eulogy.
> 
> The candlelight vigil for James M. Boyd, 38, drew more than 100 people who came to reflect on what the death of this man – who was mostly unknown even to those who knew him – means for those still living in Albuquerque, which has seen a massive outcry following Boyd’s shooting death by police March 16.
> 
> “It was a wrongdoing,” said Mabel Williamson, a lifelong city resident, who attended the vigil about a quarter-mile northeast of the Copper Trailhead. “This man was not bothering anyone, was trying to sleep. He didn’t deserve it.”
> 
> ...


..

----------


## KingNothing

"First responders have a job many of us could never handle. These men and women wear bulletproof vests as part of their uniform and never know what their next call is going to bring.”

Very valid point.  They might have to initiate a confrontation with a homeless man in a park, then kill him by shooting him in the back.  They just never know if the call to go out and kill someone who isn't bothering anyone else might have to be answered by them.

----------


## fr33

You know who doesn't have one of the 10 most dangerous jobs? The people wearing bullet-proof vests.

----------


## phill4paul

> You know who doesn't have one of the 10 most dangerous jobs? The people wearing bullet-proof vests.


  You know who doesn't have job security, qualified immunity, access to firearms and the ability to take them anywhere at anytime, health benefits, the backing of one of the most powerful unions in America and generous pension plans? The people that wear carpenters aprons, roofing aprons, logging belts, immersion suits, seat belts and airbags

----------


## Spikender

The Largest Street Gang in America putting in work.

Comply or die.
Freedom don't fly.
We don't care if we lie
Just kiss your life and dog goodbye

Good to see protestors standing up, but the response from the department and the statists in Government are typical. How about this, Mister Mayor: if you really want to restore confidence, have the men who murdered Boyd locked up. Lock up these killers from the APD ASAP, kapeesh?

----------


## CPUd

They played the video on Erin Burnett's show.




> ...
> 
> Records show that 26 people have been killed by city police in Albuquerque since 2010, a per capita rate of officer-involved deaths higher than New York City and Chicago. Forty people have been wounded by police over the same period of time. So far, the city has paid out $30 million in settlements and officials acknowledge that amount will grow.
> 
> In a report written before Boyd's shooting, the U.S. Department of Justice blamed the Police Department for poor training and said "we find that the department engages in a pattern or practice of using excessive force during the course of arrests and other detentions in violation of the Fourth Amendment."
> 
> Boyd's death has been added to the list of questionable killings. In April 2011, a young Albuquerque man -- whose parents had contacted police because he had mental health issues -- was killed in his own backyard by two plainclothes police.
> 
> The officers had come to the home of Christopher Torres on an arrest warrant issued the month before. They said he was armed and shot him in the back as they wrestled on the ground.
> ...


See video of them interviewing the DA at link:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/20/us/alb...ion/index.html

----------


## devil21

> The Albuquerque district attorney, Kari Brandenburg, cleared the two officers in the Torres killing. She has cleared every other police officer involved in a killing during her last 13 years in office.


Nope, not a smidgen of corruption.

----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## kcchiefs6465

This is why every injustice should be downloaded.

These pieces of $#@!.

They murdered a man and then bean bagged his body, and then sicced the dogs on him.

It was all on tape.

----------


## CPUd

Here is a youtube of the CNN video:

----------


## Spikender

$#@! em.

They are pussies, murderers, and liars. No amount of settlement money makes taking lives alright. How can you find a department's story not credible yet no one is fired? No one is behind bars? All that's left is one dead body and millions out of tax payer pockets after every case. We are literally paying for police to cover their own asses after they murder us.

Just Us doesn't even begin to describe it. This goes above and beyond into some sick hellish level of demonic thinking that I can't even process.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Here is a youtube of the CNN video:



Wow...just...F-you, Kari Brandenburg..

----------


## Anti Federalist

This guy pulled knives.

Justified.

Right?

----------


## AuH20

> This guy pulled knives.
> 
> Justified.
> 
> Right?


Nope. They had two ARs and a sidearm on him and the two were a safe distance below. There was practically no risk to the officers unless it was a throwing knife and even with that the threat would be minimal.

----------


## Origanalist

‘I’m Going to Shoot Him in the Penis,’ Says Cop Before Executing Camper'

(by Mikael Thalen, IW) -- An Albuquerque police officer who killed a mentally ill homeless man last March expressed his desire to shoot him in the penis, new dash cam footage reveals.

The video, obtained by KOB4 News, details a conversation between APD Officer Keith Sandy and another officer shortly before the fateful shooting of James Boyd.

During the conversation, Sandy can be heard discussing his desire to shoot Boyd, who he refers to as a “f*cking lunatic,” in the penis with a shot gun.

“For this f***ing lunatic?  I’m going to shoot him in the penis with a shotgun here in a second,” Sandy said.

Only two hours later, Sandy would do just that, taking Boyd’s life in the process.

According to civil rights attorney Shannon Kennedy, Sandy’s statement reveals a premeditated decision to violently engage Boyd.

“Two hours later he’s escalating the situation so he can do just that,” Kennedy told KOB4.  “It’s chilling evidence and stunning that he has not been criminally indicted…  It’s crystal clear and he says it with contempt in his voice.’”

More with video....http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines...ecuting-camper

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> “Two hours later he’s escalating the situation so he can do just that,” Kennedy told KOB4. “It’s chilling evidence and stunning that he has not been criminally indicted… It’s crystal clear and he says it with contempt in his voice.’”


The "Brown effect" with looting on non-mundane buildings. Maybe some SWLOD?



note: jk LOL

----------


## Anti Federalist

> “For this f***ing lunatic? I’m going to shoot him in the penis with a shotgun here in a second,” Sandy said.
> 
> Only two hours later, Sandy would do just that, taking Boyd’s life in the process.
> 
> According to civil rights attorney Shannon Kennedy, Sandy’s statement reveals a premeditated decision to violently engage Boyd.
> 
> “Two hours later he’s escalating the situation so he can do just that,” Kennedy told KOB4. “It’s chilling evidence and stunning that he has not been criminally indicted… It’s crystal clear and he says it with contempt in his voice.’”


And why is Eric Frein the bad guy, again?

----------


## Origanalist

> And why is Eric Frein the bad guy, again?


Because anarchy, the thin blue line.

----------


## Shane Harris

> What about serial killers and other unrepentant sociopaths? Should we just let them go about their business? Last I checked, I don't have a forensics lab in my house. Police are a necessary evil, but they have strayed far from their mission statement due to social defects. And for the record, I would have no qualms about moving more departments to privately funded status as opposed to the status quo. The entire profession needs to be weened off it's political roots.

----------


## SeanTX

JustUs wins again -- enjoy your retirement, officer ...

http://theantimedia.org/cop-who-kill...-man-retiring/




> Cop Who Killed Homeless Man Retiring Early with Full Benefits to Avoid Investigation
> 
> Justin King
> November 20, 2014
> 
> (TheAntiMedia) *One of the officers that killed James Boyd is retiring early with full benefits and gets to avoid the Internal Affairs investigation by doing so.* The local media in Albuquerque is trying to downplay his retirement by running headlines that indicate the exact opposite of the truth.
> 
> Officer Keith Sandy is the officer that made headlines and sparked outrage by stating he was going to shoot Boyd two hours before he did. He told a state law enforcement officer:
> 
> ...

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> JustUs wins again -- enjoy your retirement, officer ...
> 
> http://theantimedia.org/cop-who-kill...-man-retiring/



"There's got to be a way for us to hold ourselves accountable absent putting cops in jail for making mistakes," he said.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Now, Sandy is retiring early, getting his pension, and dodging an internal investigation. He will be paid 70% of his normal pay for the rest of his life. Boyd’s life is over.

*Now, Sandy is retiring early, getting his pension, and dodging an internal investigation. He will be paid 70% of his normal pay for the rest of his life. Boyd’s life is over.*

*Now, Sandy is retiring early, getting his pension, and dodging an internal investigation. He will be paid 70% of his normal pay for the rest of his life. Boyd’s life is over.*

----------


## devil21

> "There's got to be a way for us to hold ourselves accountable absent putting cops in jail for making mistakes," he said.


I didn't see that quote in the article?  That would be a hell of a statement to make, when regular folks "commit crimes" but cops only "make mistakes".

----------


## Occam's Banana

> "There's got to be a way for us to hold  ourselves accountable absent putting cops in jail for making mistakes,"  he said.





> I didn't see that quote in the article?  That would be a hell of a statement to make, when regular folks "commit crimes" but cops only "make mistakes".


It's a reference to another recent story (the "he" who said it is a police chief in Milwaukee): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-jail-4-mistak

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Family Of Homeless Man Killed by Cops Gives 200K Of Settlement To Help the Homeless*

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/fam...kzGOi0JOIVe.99

Albuquerque, NM – The police killing of homeless camper James Boyd shocked the world last year, after video of the murder surfaced, showing Boyd surrendering to police before he was killed.

Boyd was shot and killed by Albuquerque Police officers Keith Sandy and Dominique Perez in the foothills of the Sandia Mountains after a local resident complained that he was ‘illegally camping.” Boyd was shot as he turned away from police. An autopsy confirmed that Boyd was shot in the back.

Boyd’s family recently won a $5 million settlement from the city, and they have been using a large part of the money to help the local homeless community. Boyd’s brother, Andrew Jones, announced this Friday that the family will be donating $100,000 to St. Martin’s Hospitality Center and another $100,000 to Health Care for the Homeless.

“They are the two organizations I know my brother used, and they helped him as much as they possibly could. They are probably the two better organizations in the city and I know they will help a lot of people with the money,” Jones told KOB.

Jones also said that they will be starting a program at St. Martin’s in James Boyd’s name, which will help individual homeless people get back on their feet.

“They just don’t know where to go to find the correct help. They just need to get the help and get to the place they need to be. When they realized we could help them, they accepted it just fine,” Jones said.

The officers responsible for Boyd’s death have yet to stand trial, but they will reportedly be in court next summer to face charges for their crimes.

----------


## presence

> they will reportedly be in court next summer to face charges for their crimes.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Will not be re-tried.

Perez is already moving to be put back on the job.

*Reinstatement pending for officer in James Boyd shooting, APD spokesperson says*

http://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news/...t-apd/4411558/

Kasia Gregorczyk

February 27, 2017 06:18 PM 

A former Albuquerque police officer who was once accused of murdering a mentally ill homeless camper wants his job back.

On Friday, Bernalillo County District Attorney Raul Torrez announced his office will not pursue a retrial against Keith Sandy and Dominique Perez, the two former APD officers who shot and killed James Boyd back in 2014 following a standoff in the Foothills.

Perez's attorney Luis Robles said Perez still wants to go back and work for APD. A spokesperson for APD said they believe Perez still holds his law enforcement certification, but other questions remain.

KOB repeatedly asked the police department Monday about the process Perez would need to go through to potentially return to work as an officer. By the afternoon, KOB was told the department's legal team was still working on an answer.

"Mr. Perez's personnel appeal is still pending, and the city has reached out to his attorneys to discuss the conditions of his return to the department, including participating in all new training related to the department's reform efforts," said Celina Espinoza, the communications director for APD.

If Perez rejoined, he would need to make up 80 hours of updated use-of-force training on body cameras, community policing and cultural sensitivity.

Perez's lawyer seemed optimistic his client would return to the force.

"And I think the City of Albuquerque is more than receptive to giving him his job back," Robles said. "It's just a matter of terms."

The city did not have any information to provide about Perez getting his job back. However, information on the City of Albuquerque website states, "The Personnel Board shall render a decision upon the appeal of classified employees of the city who have been suspended without pay for more than five days, demoted for disciplinary reasons or discharged."

On Friday, APD did say that Perez's reinstatement would have to be evaluated.

----------

