# Liberty Movement > Liberty Campaigns > Liberty Campaign Evaluation >  Campaign Evaluation: Mia Love (U.S. House, UT-4)

## malkusm

This thread is intended to be a collection point of the strong pros and cons of any potential liberty candidate / campaign that is being discussed / promoted on the forum. You are welcome to post both positive and not-so-positive attributes about the candidate as they related to their position on supporting liberty as well as issues relating to their campaign. The most important information may be aggregated in this top post for easy reference.

*Candidate Name:* Mia Love
*Office Sought:* U.S. House, Utah's 4th Congressional District
*Website:* http://love4utah.com/
*Social Media:* Facebook | Twitter

*Candidate Profile: On the Issues*
Civil Liberties: [Rating TBD]
Constitutional Issues: [Rating TBD]
Economic Issues: [Rating TBD]
Foreign Policy: [Rating TBD]
Social Issues: [Rating TBD]
*Overall Issues Rating:* [Rating TBD]

*Race Profile: Competition & Demographics*
State: Utah
District: 4
Incumbent: Jim Matheson (D-UT)
Other Primary Candidates: None
Non-Incumbent Candidates from Other Parties: None
Cook PVI: R+14 (Solid Republican)
Relevant poll numbers: None - Love lost to Matheson by 0.31% in the 2012 election.
*Overall Race Profile Rating:* [Rating TBD]

*Miscellaneous Pros/Cons*
Key strong points:

Unknown points for further research:

Possible weak points:

Possible deal breakers:

*Overall Rating:*

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## compromise

Due to her ethnicity, Mia has Tea Party, liberty movement and establishment support. I'd rate her 5 star as a candidate because she's practically a shoe-in, purity wise she's more 3-4 star.

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## Brian4Liberty

Has she ever taken a stand on foreign policy?

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## Original_Intent

In the last election cycle, she came across as very poorly informed to me. I would have taken her any day over Matheson, but we got gerrymandered out of that district. My impression of her is that she will go with the party consensus on anything, but is willing to campaign as a Tea Partier/"maverick" to get in.

I remember her being asked about Congress being able to do "insider trading" and she tried to fake an answer and really came across poorly as it was clear she didn't understand what insider trading was. She should have punted on that question. I do wish her well, again would be an improvement on Matheson (I think) but not super impressed, either.

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## Brian4Liberty

Her issues page is sparse:

Education, immigration, taxes. 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Senate-R-SC%29

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## compromise

> Has she ever taken a stand on foreign policy?


If I remember correctly, she was hawkish towards Iran. Don't know about Syria though.

The main reason some in the liberty movement like her is that she's knowledgeable about economics and said Ron Paul was her favorite presidential candidate in an interview she did in 2012. She also received an endorsement by Reason in 2012.

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## Mr.NoSmile

And if you look around, you'll see that there are growing number of Democrats in Utah who are fed up with Matheson because they feel he votes too much against the Democratic Party.  I'm trying to see if they'll come up with someone to challenge him, siphon away his votes and point out his voting record.

As for Love, I think she's solid and given that Matheson won by a _very_ small margin, I think she'll have a shot _if_ folks show up and vote in the midterms.  Matheson already wrote Love off, claiming that she does not have the Romney momentum to get Republicans out to vote.  True as that is, Matheson does not have the Obama momentum.  And I do agree that Love was questionable as far as her rhetoric goes, but do think she's improved.

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## Keith and stuff

Last time she was anti-liberty. Let's see if she is better than the worst of the worst this time. There is always room for improvement.

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## Anti-Neocon

She ran a full campaign and we *still* don't have any evidence that she's a liberty candidate?  This one shouldn't be hard to figure out, and I'm baffled at how people support her at all.

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## Mr.NoSmile

> She ran a full campaign and we *still* don't have any evidence that she's a liberty candidate?  This one shouldn't be hard to figure out, and I'm baffled at how people support her at all.


Ah, you saw all her speeches post 2012 election, then? Might not be the 5 star, but I'd say at least 4 based on her rhetoric since after the election. Plus Matheson hasn't done himself any favors since people see him as a Republican in Democrat's clothing.  But if you have an alternative, we're open to hear it.

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## tangent4ronpaul

I saw the thread title and my first thought was:  WOW! - a porn star is running for Congress???

People do vote for people they are unfamiliar with based solely on their name...

She's Mormon and that makes me think of what a nightmare we would have had if Romney or Santorum got into the oval office.

She's black - and this is lilly-white UT...

The lack of background on her positions gives me pause and feedback so far doesn't leave me encouraged...

-t

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## Brian4Liberty

> In the last election cycle, she came across as very poorly informed to me.


The neo-cons favorite type of candidate.

She said something good about Ron Paul at one point. That's a good thing. Who has been influencing her since then? Kissinger and Kristol mentoring her on foreign policy? She's a media favorite, and goes on Hannity. Is that a good sign? Hard to say where she really stands. She has always talked about personal responsibility, but that could leave her just like Hannity.

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## Mr.NoSmile

> The neo-cons favorite type of candidate.
> 
> She said something good about Ron Paul at one point. That's a good thing. Who has been influencing her since then? Kissinger and Kristol mentoring her on foreign policy? She's a media favorite, and goes on Hannity. Is that a good sign? Hard to say where she really stands. She has always talked about personal responsibility, but that could leave her just like Hannity.


Not sure what the good thing is, but she did tweet about something Ron Paul said back in 2011:

https://twitter.com/MiaBLove/status/126465962311548928




> @MiaBLove: "Ron Paul hit it nail on the head."government is not good at anything" #utpol"


And called Bastiat her favorite economist, if that means anything. Like Mace now, in this, she felt a bit unpolished on the interview ground.  I wouldn't say Palin 2008 bad, but could have used some polish.

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## Anti-Neocon

> Ah, you saw all her speeches post 2012 election, then? Might not be the 5 star, but I'd say at least 4 based on her rhetoric since after the election. Plus Matheson hasn't done himself any favors since people see him as a Republican in Democrat's clothing.  But if you have an alternative, we're open to hear it.


What did she say in these speeches that would put her at the level of a true 4 star candidate?  What good positions does she hold?  How does she stand on civil liberties and foreign intervention?  I could care less if she quoted Ron Paul and who her favorite economist is.  Her issues page is devoid of issues.

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## Brian4Liberty

She gets a lot of mileage out of her American Dream and personal responsibility speech. This one is almost identical to the one posted earlier in the thread. She does talk a bit at one point about her fiscal conservatism as Mayor.

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## Brian4Liberty

Her American Dream speech could be given by any politician in the US. It does get better when she talks about limited government and fiscal responsibility. She's a bit of an unknown. If she gets into Congress, we'll find out where she stands on specific issues.

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## malkusm

The results of this poll could be interesting

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## Mr.NoSmile

> What did she say in these speeches that would put her at the level of a true 4 star candidate?  What good positions does she hold?  How does she stand on civil liberties and foreign intervention?  I could care less if she quoted Ron Paul and who her favorite economist is.  Her issues page is devoid of issues.


...that's why campaign pages have, I don't know, _contact_ information? Same thing I used to find out more about Elaine Hays and how she stands when running against Mac Thornberry. Rather than wait to find out, ask about it. If no one here has an answer now, be the first to find out.

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## Anti-Neocon

Unless you make your positions public, they are of little use.  As Mia Love has not done this, it is pretty obvious that she is running on a platform of "I'm a black woman who happens to be Republican".  Even Hermain Cain had his 999 plan.

Why are we even debating about whether or not empty suits would make liberty candidates?  I just don't get it.

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## Mr.NoSmile

> Unless you make your positions public, they are of little use.  As Mia Love has not done this, it is pretty obvious that she is running on a platform of "I'm a black woman who happens to be Republican".  Even Hermain Cain had his 999 plan.
> 
> Why are we even debating about whether or not empty suits would make liberty candidates?  I just don't get it.


This isn't the equivalent to people talking about Nancy Mace being a female from the Citadel. And we debate because we can disagree and agree on candidates. And people can back and support who they want to. Hell, we see it happening right now with the Virginia governor's race.

After all, Bright's issues page has nothing on it about foreign policy.  Does that mean people will suddenly turn on him?  No, that'd be ridiculous. For South Carolina, for example, some people back Richard Cash, some people back Mace, some people back Bright.  Might not like it, but doesn't mean you can't debate about it. Especially considering Graham still has a plethora of support, whereas someone like Matheson's is dwindling. And until, I assume, you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she's anti liberty, this thread is going to remain up.

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## Anti-Neocon

There's lots of potential candidates who are anti-liberty, but Matheson isn't a particularly vile or influential politician like Graham is.  Kicking Matheson out for the sake of doing so has very little (if any) positive implications for the liberty movement.  Now Graham on the other hand...

I love the idea of debate, but there's not much to debate about her.  She already ran a full campaign for national office and we still don't know where she stands on the issues.

There's also no comparison between Love and Mace.  For Mace, we have inside info that she is libertarian-leaning.  She's also publicly been attacking Graham for taking neoconservative statist positions on both Syria and the NSA.

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## Mr.NoSmile

I'd say Matheson voting for raising the debt limit, voting against the Amash Amendment and the Disaster Relief Acts are enough of a reason to warrant a challenge, given how many people wanted to primary every single member of the House if they voted against the Amash Amendment.  Granted, that's more hyperbole than anything else and an uphill battle to try and successfully defeat every incumbent who voted that way, but that Matheson has already ticked off enough of his constituents shows there's a growing crack in his armor.  I'll concede that knowing Love's position on _all_ of those issues right now would be helpful, but as we don't, you can only go with what you have.

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## compromise

Love is against the Department of Education, Department of Energy and DOMA according to Reason, in their 2012 endorsement of her.




> Mia Love
> 
> U.S. House of Representatives, Utah’s Fourth District
> 
> Mitt Romney has extremely limited appeal to serious libertarians, but Utah freedom-lovers may thank him for helping to carry Saratoga Springs Mayor Mia Love to victory in her race for Congress. Love, a fast riser in Utah politics, has attracted the support of establishment and anti-establishment Republicans alike not just because of her potential to make history as the first African-American Republican woman to be elected to Congress, but because of her clear western Republican views.
> 
> Love was born in Brooklyn and raised in Connecticut by her Haitian parents before moving to Utah and getting married. She started her political career in 2003 when she was elected to the Saratoga Springs City Council. In 2009 she successfully ran for mayor.
> 
> Love has been positively described as a “Trojan horse libertarian” by some conservative bloggers for her positions on homeschooling, federal control of land, and other issues. Liberals have attacked her for her backing entitlement reform and the privatization of student loans. Libertarians should enjoy Love’s serious talk about eliminating the federal Department of Education and Department of Energy.
> ...

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## Anti-Neocon

> I'd say Matheson voting for raising the debt limit, voting against the Amash Amendment and the Disaster Relief Acts are enough of a reason to warrant a challenge, given how many people wanted to primary every single member of the House if they voted against the Amash Amendment.  Granted, that's more hyperbole than anything else and an uphill battle to try and successfully defeat every incumbent who voted that way, but that Matheson has already ticked off enough of his constituents shows there's a growing crack in his armor.  I'll concede that knowing Love's position on _all_ of those issues right now would be helpful, but as we don't, you can only go with what you have.


The problem is that for every Amash/Brannon/Massie there are 50 Mia Loves.  You wisely bring up the point that we have a tendency to want to go after everyone, but maybe underestimate the negative implications of it.  Ron Paul got $40 million of liberty money and here Greg Brannon is with a few hundred thousand and we're actually going to worry about someone so inconsequential in the scheme of things as Mia Love?  Heck, the D currently representing that district is more conservative than Lindsey Graham.

We tend to reach for the stars and never get off the ground.  Should you vote for Love?  Sure.  Donate money to her?  Not only does the GOP establishment love her (well maybe not her personally but her skin color/gender) so much that she'll get adequate funding to run whatever campaign she wishes to, but there's national candidates who NEED a lot of our money and local candidates who need just a little of our money.  Real, true blue liberty candidates we're talking that can actually take a stand for liberty..

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## malkusm

Poll is now open. Please vote for the overall rating for this candidate in the next 2 weeks.

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## compromise

4 star. Shoe-in but there's not enough information about her positions, other than we know she's very conservative and likes Bastiat & Ron Paul.

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## tsai3904

Rep. Jim Matheson is retiring.

https://www.facebook.com/RepJimMathe...32391713466651

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## pulp8721

> Rep. Jim Matheson is retiring.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/RepJimMathe...32391713466651



There you go.  The seat's hers.

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## Mr.NoSmile

Pretty much. Unless the Utah Democratic Party tries to scramble, all Love has to do is beat her primary challenger, work out her rhetoric, and boom, she's got it.

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## Anti-Neocon

I take back some of what I said (along with my 2 star vote).  An archive of her 2012 campaign site shows what could be construed as a non-interventionist position.  This was since taken down and replaced with empty platitudes, so it's tough to say where she stands now.  But there's a real possibility that she actually is a true believer in liberty and that the establishment GOP was so hardcore behind her just because of her skin color.  What I interpreted as being her part of the establishment may just have been the establishment feeling like they needed a black woman to point to.

I'd love to get her elected, and I don't think there is much stopping her from being elected, and best of all, the GOP needs her more than she needs the GOP, so she has a lot of freedom to vote her conscience with virtually no chance of primary threats or establishment rebellions.

I apologize for some things I said earlier because there is no reason to believe that she cannot be the real deal.

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## Mr.NoSmile

> I take back some of what I said (along with my 2 star vote).  An archive of her 2012 campaign site shows what could be construed as a non-interventionist position.  This was since taken down and replaced with empty platitudes, so it's tough to say where she stands now.  But there's a real possibility that she actually is a true believer in liberty and that the establishment GOP was so hardcore behind her just because of her skin color.  What I interpreted as being her part of the establishment may just have been the establishment feeling like they needed a black woman to point to.
> 
> I'd love to get her elected, and I don't think there is much stopping her from being elected, and best of all, the GOP needs her more than she needs the GOP, so she has a lot of freedom to vote her conscience with virtually no chance of primary threats or establishment rebellions.
> 
> I apologize for some things I said earlier because there is no reason to believe that she cannot be the real deal.


What a different tone than what you whistled two months ago...

Seriously, doubling back is fun, isn't it? "I'd love to get her elected" is vastly different than "...and we're actually going to worry about someone so inconsequential in the scheme of things as Mia Love."

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## Bastiat's The Law

> The problem is that for every Amash/Brannon/Massie there are 50 Mia Loves.  You wisely bring up the point that we have a tendency to want to go after everyone, but maybe underestimate the negative implications of it.  Ron Paul got $40 million of liberty money and here Greg Brannon is with a few hundred thousand and we're actually going to worry about someone so inconsequential in the scheme of things as Mia Love?  Heck, the D currently representing that district is more conservative than Lindsey Graham.
> 
> We tend to reach for the stars and never get off the ground.  Should you vote for Love?  Sure.  Donate money to her?  Not only does the GOP establishment love her (well maybe not her personally but her skin color/gender) so much that she'll get adequate funding to run whatever campaign she wishes to, but there's national candidates who NEED a lot of our money and local candidates who need just a little of our money.  Real, true blue liberty candidates we're talking that can actually take a stand for liberty..


Quoted for truth.  If the Liberty Movement had their head on straight they would raise $40 million in these midterm elections and flex their muscle.  We should be electing 10-15 House members and 1-2 Senators *every* election cycle!  And I'm not talking two or three star candidates like Mia Love, we could be electing a slew of legit five star liberty candidates every two years.

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## Mr.NoSmile

> Quoted for truth.  If the Liberty Movement had their head on straight they would raise $40 million in these midterm elections and flex their muscle.  We should be electing 10-15 House members and 1-2 Senators *every* election cycle!  And I'm not talking two or three star candidates like Mia Love, we could be electing a slew of legit five star liberty candidates every two years.


Now is that taking into account every single factor such as electability, name recognition, rhetoric, donor base, candidate's personal decisions, among other things? Ideally, electing 10-15 House or 1-2 Senators sounds nice, but those factors and even more make that even more challenging that it sounds. Not to mention if they're running against a well funded incumbent and they have next to no name recognition. That doesn't make it impossible, though. Not to mention, in the cases where we're always asking or wondering when someone like a David Fischer may or may not be running and we're just speculating. Part of it's on the Movement, but it's also on the folks themselves who may want to run, but they're just wavering on the decision, if South Carolina's Senate race is an indication.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> Now is that taking into account every single factor such as electability, name recognition, rhetoric, donor base, candidate's personal decisions, among other things? Ideally, electing 10-15 House or 1-2 Senators sounds nice, but those factors and even more make that even more challenging that it sounds. Not to mention if they're running against a well funded incumbent and they have next to no name recognition. That doesn't make it impossible, though. Not to mention, in the cases where we're always asking or wondering when someone like a David Fischer may or may not be running and we're just speculating. Part of it's on the Movement, but it's also on the folks themselves who may want to run, but they're just wavering on the decision, if South Carolina's Senate race is an indication.


I think that some of these liberty candidates waver about running because they can't gauge the level of support they would get if they commit themselves to running.  We have to do a better job at keeping Paul supporters engaged and active during the midterms.  Everyone wanted Ron elected for what he would do as President.  I'd argue that we could get the same results if we infected Congress with dozens of liberty candidates.  It might even be a smarter strategy because we'd have a liberty friendly Congress in place when we do elect a liberty candidate for President.  They won't be up against a hostile Congress that would block their liberty agenda.  

We should probably divisive a 2-year and 10-year plan.  If we're serious about changing this country for the better and go about it intelligently there's no reason why we shouldn't own Congress in 10 years; and maybe even sooner.  The challenge is how do we keep our huge donor base engaged and convince them of this strategy?

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## Anti-Neocon

Just endorsed Rubio.  Guess my 2 stars was right.



> What a different tone than what you whistled two months ago...
> 
> Seriously, doubling back is fun, isn't it? "I'd love to get her elected" is vastly different than "...and we're actually going to worry about someone so inconsequential in the scheme of things as Mia Love."


I was willing to give her a chance, but she blew it.

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