# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Prosperity >  Which is more likely to be seized, gold in safety deposit or money in 401K?

## Madison320

Just wondering what you guys think. I think it would be harder to seize gold from your safety deposit box compared to money in your 401K, but the 401K has safety in numbers. So I'm not really sure.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Placing physical gold in a place like a post office box?  Not a chance.

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## roho76

Neither are safe but I would bet they come for the 401k's before they go to each individual bank and open safe deposit boxes. That's not saying they won't do that too, just that they will take the easy way first and then follow up with your gold. Remember, government is lazy.

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## Madison320

> Neither are safe but I would bet they come for the 401k's before they go to each individual bank and open safe deposit boxes. That's not saying they won't do that too, just that they will take the easy way first and then follow up with your gold. Remember, government is lazy.


I agree, except that since so many more people own 401Ks, politicians might fear getting kicked out of office. People that own gold are a much, much smaller minority. But the idea of physically going into safety deposit boxes sounds more drastic than electronically trimming some money out of everyone's 401K. It would be hard to put a positive spin on government agents busting into banks like that.

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## LibForestPaul

> I agree, except that since so many more people own 401Ks, politicians might fear getting kicked out of office.


Really. After a goldman sachs parachute. And the same players put forth. No, they do not fear their subjects. The .%3, that's the only group they fear.

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## oyarde

Both , depending on who you are .My safe deposit box is empty , my families safety deposit box has nothing in it but deeds, those matter not, if it gets that bad , nobody is taking any land from them.On the bright side (one of the few ) , if it does get that bad , no more property tax , the Sheriff is sure as hell not going to come around and put anything up for auction.All of that just props up the school system and it will all be looted rapidly after being closed and children may actually start to learn something important , lol

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## presence



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## tangent4ronpaul

Both at the same time.

-t

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## jbauer

They're not going to take your 401k under our current elected process. They might shock the markets or raise taxes but there's no point in taking paper money that would need to be sold on an open market. Doing so would immediately crash said market and provide no value to the takers. Also both republicans and democrats have 401ks. 

On the flip side they've already taken the gold less then a 100 yrs ago. What makes you think they won't again?  

Either way confiscating money will enrage the public. You'd see massive protesting and a bunch of heads on polls.

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## CaptUSA

Pretty sure the first thing to be robbed are the private pensions.  They've already robbed the public ones.

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## osan

> Just wondering what you guys think. I think it would be harder to seize gold from your safety deposit box compared to money in your 401K, but the 401K has safety in numbers. So I'm not really sure.



When the time comes, both are gone, but the 401 goes first because it takes little to no effort to transfer computer bits.  Getting the gold is labor- and time-intensive.  Once the word gets out, people will flock to their banks to empty their boxes.  If the bank personnel attempt to stop people, I suspect many will end up shot or beaten to pulps, the keys taken, and boxes emptied one way or another.  If cops arrive, expect things to get "interesting".  Cops are no guarantee of order.  Poca Valley Bank was s=robbed at gunpoint about 3 months ago in Elkview WV.  Two weeks later, Chase bank across the street was robbed.  From the back of Chase, I could fart on the Kanawha County Sheriff's office.  And no, nobody has been caught in either case, to my knowledge.  So much doe "security".  Dumb Americans.

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## Spikender

If you have gold in a safety deposit box, just send it to me and I'll hold it for ya.

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## jbauer

Computer bits are only worth something if you can convert them into something of value.  Taking said bits and selling them on a market that would have no value is pointless.  

Especially when you add in that they can just print more.  No reason to tick off the public at large when you have a way to "create" trillions without all but a few even caring.  




> When the time comes, both are gone, but the 401 goes first because it takes little to no effort to transfer computer bits.  Getting the gold is labor- and time-intensive.  Once the word gets out, people will flock to their banks to empty their boxes.  If the bank personnel attempt to stop people, I suspect many will end up shot or beaten to pulps, the keys taken, and boxes emptied one way or another.  If cops arrive, expect things to get "interesting".  Cops are no guarantee of order.  Poca Valley Bank was s=robbed at gunpoint about 3 months ago in Elkview WV.  Two weeks later, Chase bank across the street was robbed.  From the back of Chase, I could fart on the Kanawha County Sheriff's office.  And no, nobody has been caught in either case, to my knowledge.  So much doe "security".  Dumb Americans.

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## jllundqu

> Which is more likely to be seized, gold in safety deposit or money in 401K?


"I think maybe it's both. Maybe both is happening at the same time."

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## Tod

If I had physical gold, I would not keep it in a safe deposit box because a safe deposit box pretty much defeats the purpose of having physical gold.

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## Tod

If I had physical gold, I would not keep it in a safe deposit box because a safe deposit box pretty much defeats the purpose of having physical gold.

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## Madison320

> Really. After a goldman sachs parachute. And the same players put forth. No, they do not fear their subjects. The .%3, that's the only group they fear.


I think it's the opposite. Politicians want to get re-elected, that's their number one goal above all else. They're always willing to screw over the top percent to gain votes from the masses. Just look at the laws for evidence. Progressive taxation, discrimination lawsuits, etc, etc.

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## Madison320

> They're not going to take your 401k under our current elected process. They might shock the markets or raise taxes but there's no point in taking paper money that would need to be sold on an open market. Doing so would immediately crash said market and provide no value to the takers. Also both republicans and democrats have 401ks. 
> 
> On the flip side they've already taken the gold less then a 100 yrs ago. What makes you think they won't again?  
> 
> Either way confiscating money will enrage the public. You'd see massive protesting and a bunch of heads on polls.


I agree. I think they'd have to some up with a scheme that has popular support. I have a theory that they may target "speculators". If the dollar collapses, the people that own treasuries will get wiped out but the people owning GLD for example will do well. I can see politicians saying "Hey, it's unfair that responsible, patriotic people investing in their country (t-bills) lose their money due to the evil people speculating in gold and oil. Therefore we are going to do a one time tax on speculators to recover the money and give it to the holders of treasuries."

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## tangent4ronpaul

> They're not going to take your 401k under our current elected process. They might shock the markets or raise taxes but there's no point in taking paper money that would need to be sold on an open market. Doing so would immediately crash said market and provide no value to the takers. Also both republicans and democrats have 401ks. 
> 
> On the flip side they've already taken the gold less then a 100 yrs ago. What makes you think they won't again?  
> 
> Either way confiscating money will enrage the public. You'd see massive protesting and a bunch of heads on polls.


THe social security "trust fund" got raided and filled with a bunch of worthless IOU's that will never be paid back.  The discussion has changed to SS is going to have a shortfall - not we spent it and will pay you back, rather, we will not be able to pay you back all that is owed you - make other plans.  Yes I got a letter to that effect.  Like you will get 70% of what you should.  THey went after and got gvmt and mil pensions recently.  our local state gvmt raided 50% of tracher pensions recently again with worthless IOU's that will never be paid back and yes, they have been eying and talking about doing the same to 401's in recent years.  They are a pack of thieves stealing all they can before the ponzi scheme collapses.

-t

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## thoughtomator

A lot of safety deposit boxes have ALREADY been robbed by DHS. Check yours, if you haven't in a while - you might be surprised to find things aren't as you left them.

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## LibForestPaul

> Computer bits are only worth something if you can convert them into something of value.  Taking said bits and selling them on a market that would have no value is pointless.  
> 
> Especially when you add in that they can just print more.  No reason to tick off the public at large when you have a way to "create" trillions without all but a few even caring.


It's for the elderly, poor, yaddi yaddi, damn rich people. Theres your reason.

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## RJB

They are already stealing 401Ks through inflation.

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## osan

> Computer bits are only worth something if you can convert them into something of value.  Taking said bits and selling them on a market that would have no value is pointless.


Agreed, but that does not mean there cannot be a progression of steps.  If the retirement accounts are taken at a time where they still have value, then they may be converted into things of value to Themme.  Once that process is completed to whatever degree desired or achievable, one moves to the gold.  I'm not saying this is how it would happen, but that it is a plausible course.

But as you point out, if the accounts fall to zero value, the net effect is the same as that of confiscation, from the standpoint of the owners.  Whatever the actual chain of events, the salient effective result for Themme will be the stripping away of economic power from the mundane.kj




> Especially when you add in that they can just print more.  No reason to tick off the public at large when you have a way to "create" trillions without all but a few even caring.


 Valid point.

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## LibertyEagle

I think they will come for the 401Ks.  I think they will nationalize them.  You know, to keep it safe for ya.  Once they do that, they will raid the coffers, as usual.

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## willwash

> I agree, except that since so many more people own 401Ks, politicians might fear getting kicked out of office. People that own gold are a much, much smaller minority. But the idea of physically going into safety deposit boxes sounds more drastic than electronically trimming some money out of everyone's 401K. It would be hard to put a positive spin on government agents busting into banks like that.


Just make sure the next false flag attack is entirely funded by secret stashes of physical gold.

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## oyarde

> Pretty sure the first thing to be robbed are the private pensions.  They've already robbed the public ones.


In large cities , the public ones were most likely never funded .Same for the general public with social security and medicare , they take the money and spend it within about the same time period as a low income household that pays bills .

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## oyarde

> If I had physical gold, I would not keep it in a safe deposit box because a safe deposit box pretty much defeats the purpose of having physical gold.


That would be like keeping your shotgun , rifle in a safe deposit box .

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## ILUVRP

how about your cash ?

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...ure-under.html

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## Ronin Truth

I'll SWAG IRAs and 401Ks.

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## cubical

There is no need to steal anything. Much easier to just print money/devalue. Literally stealing in the form of taking 401ks and replacing them with government debt(which I don't even see how this would work) or going into everyone's safety deposit box(is this even feasible?), would be political suicide.

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## Dr.3D

> If I had physical gold, I would not keep it in a safe deposit box because a safe deposit box pretty much defeats the purpose of having physical gold.


Yes, one might just as well buy paper gold and let the seller charge a fee to "store it for you."

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## RonPaulGeorge&Ringo

I think if you buy bullion with IRA money, you have to keep it in a bank box until you take the disbursement & that's why the OP asked...

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## presence

Should I trust banks or should I trust banks?


NO NO

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## DamianTV

> There is no need to steal anything. Much easier to just print money/devalue. Literally stealing in the form of taking 401ks and replacing them with government debt(which I don't even see how this would work) or going into everyone's safety deposit box(is this even feasible?), would be political suicide.


+Rep

Very true, but not all have the power to print money.  I think it is much easier to go after what they know about, so they will go after 401ks first.  It is true that the real target is Gold, however to maintain the Illusion that Fiat Currency has value, they go after that first until you have no choice but to spend your gold, and will probably never get it back.  By acting like they dont want your Gold, its value goes down, which makes it easier for them to acquire.  Its kind of like haggling over the price of a car.  The less you act like you want the car, the more they will lower the price on it.  Its the same reason they act like they want your Fiat Currency.  We really really really want it a lot a lot a lot so people think it has the same intrinsic value as gold, and it does not.

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## Madison320

> There is no need to steal anything. Much easier to just print money/devalue. Literally stealing in the form of taking 401ks and replacing them with government debt(which I don't even see how this would work) or going into everyone's safety deposit box(is this even feasible?), would be political suicide.


I agree to a point, but printing money only works until your currency collapses. I was assuming this would happen (confiscation) AFTER a currency crisis.

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## oyarde

I think it is very possible it would all happen  at some point , if it does , they will not be getting much from me . Since I do not know when it may , I just plan as if it is next month , or 10 yrs all at the same time .

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## helmuth_hubener

> Just wondering what you guys think. I think it would be harder to seize gold from your safety deposit box compared to money in your 401K, but the 401K has safety in numbers. So I'm not really sure.


The nice thing about a safety deposit box?  No one knows what's inside it.  It _could_ be a fortune in gold.  More likely it's important dog license papers.  Awful lot of boxes out there... if you just need a quick fix of money, there's easier ways of getting it, better targets.

Ideally the gold should be out of the reach of your own government and far, far across the sea.

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## DFF

For a small quantity of gold, I suppose a safety deposit box, as well as keeping some around the house, is ok.

But for larger amounts, I would use a private vault service where my gold was insured.

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## helmuth_hubener

> I would use a private vault service where my gold was insured.
> 
> http://www.usprivatevaults.com


_This_ would be a prime example of one of those better, easier targets I was talking about.  "USPV is located on Olympic Boulevard in Beverly Hills",... smack dab in the United States of America.  This is a bad plan (relatively speaking).  US citizens or residents should store their gold somewhere outside the jurisdiction of the US government if at all possible for them.  And it _is_ very possible.  Some of the best options are, in my opinion, Switzerland, Austria, New Zealand, and Australia, and Singapore.

So, sorry DFF but I would strongly encourage everyone to not take your advice, and yourself also to reconsider whether you might be better served by an overseas vault.

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## Madison320

> The nice thing about a safety deposit box?  No one knows what's inside it.  It _could_ be a fortune in gold.  More likely it's important dog license papers.  Awful lot of boxes out there... if you just need a quick fix of money, there's easier ways of getting it, better targets.


That's a good point, they'd have to drill open a lot of boxes. Things would have to get really bad for that to happen. If we had a complete fiat currency collapse, it might be worth it for them because gold would be incredibly valuable. If fiat currency had no value where would governments get money? What would they take? Real estate? Shares of stock? I'm not sure how that would work.

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## cubical

> I agree to a point, but printing money only works until your currency collapses. I was assuming this would happen (confiscation) AFTER a currency crisis.


The government has over 8000 tons of gold already. They don't need your 3 ounces. It wouldn't be worth their time and the political damage going after private gold.

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## helmuth_hubener

> The government has over 8000 tons of gold already. They don't need your 3 ounces. It wouldn't be worth their time and the political damage going after private gold.


I agree that it wouldn't make sense for them to do it.  But you just never know what gov't might do.  Best to be prepared: _even for the unthinkable._

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## mosquitobite

The hardest to seize would be your seeds and food supplies.

You can't eat gold.

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## Madison320

> The hardest to seize would be your seeds and food supplies.
> 
> You can't eat gold.


But you can use it to trade for food.

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## helmuth_hubener

> You can't eat gold.


The majority of useful things in this universe either cannot or should not be eaten.

And actually, you can eat gold.

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## Madison320

> The government has over 8000 tons of gold already. They don't need your 3 ounces. It wouldn't be worth their time and the political damage going after private gold.


That's a good point. Plus the fact that the vast majority of people don't own gold. So fishing for it in safety deposit boxes probably wouldn't be worth it. 

What about commodity ETFs like gold and oil? Maybe if the govt only targets "speculators" they can avoid political fallout and crashing the market. I would think a much higher percentage of people own bonds compared to commodities. The govt could blame the speculators for crashing the bond market and they might have political support to transfer wealth from the "greedy speculators" to the "patriotic bond holders".

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## helmuth_hubener

> What about commodity ETFs like gold and oil? Maybe if the govt only targets "speculators" they can avoid political fallout and crashing the market. I would think a much higher percentage of people own bonds compared to commodities. The govt could blame the speculators for crashing the bond market and they might have political support to transfer wealth from the "greedy speculators" to the "patriotic bond holders".


It's good to ask questions like this.  It's useful to then try to really think through what would be going on were crazy things like this to happen.  If this kind of craziness were happening, it would mean there's a big crisis, I mean a serious no-joke crisis going on and in full swing in the US federal government.  That would be a scary and unpredictable time.  *A time like that is precisely when you want some of your wealth safely overseas out of the reach of the US government.*  That will be the biggest thing that will protect you in that scenario.  It will help you keep your nerves and make better decisions.  It will give you decisions to make in the first place, rather than being trapped.  When there is a crisis, you may not be able to get your money out of the country.  Better to get it out now, while it's relatively easy to do so.

_Rule #13: Keep some assets outside the country in which you live.

Don't allow everything you own to be where your government can touch it. By having something outside the reach of your government, you'll be less vulnerable  and you'll feel less vulnerable. You'll no longer have to worry so much about what the government will do next.

For example, maintaining a foreign bank account is quite simple; it's little different from having a mail or Internet account with an American bank or broker.
_
-- http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/InvestmentRules.htm

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