# News & Current Events > World News & Affairs >  Contrary to popular belie...new gov report says Sunday Bloody Sunday victims innocent

## Agorism

Contrary to popular belief

Northern Ireland: Bloody Sunday Inquiry Says Victims Were Innocent

Never ever believe the government.




> U2 was aware when they decided to record "Sunday Bloody Sunday" that its lyrics could be misinterpreted as sectarian, and possibly jeopardize their personal lives. Some of The Edge's original lyrics explicitly spoke out against violent rebels, but were omitted in order to protect the group.[8] Even without these lyrics, some listeners still considered it to be a rebel song—even one which glorifies the events of the two Bloody Sundays to which the lyrics refer.


YouTube - sunday bloody sunday rx2008


So the U2 lyrics were not after all about violent resistors.

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## John Taylor

> Contrary to popular belief
> 
> Northern Ireland: Bloody Sunday Inquiry Says Victims Were Innocent
> 
> Never ever believe the government.


Who cares, the IRA is a bloodthirsty terrorist group, and their political arm Sine Fein is almost as bad politically, espousing socialism. Give the DUP self-rule police powers and they'll clear the IRA right out.

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## Agorism

> Who cares, the IRA is a bloodthirsty terrorist group, and their political arm Sine Fein is almost as bad politically, espousing socialism. Give the DUP self-rule police powers and they'll clear the IRA right out.


Sunday Bloody Sunday victims were innocent like the Flotilla protesters. Israel retracted several of their news items about the event.

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## John Taylor

> Sunday Bloody Sunday victims were innocent like the Flotilla protesters. Israel retracted several of their news items about the event.


Ok???? Innocent? I don't know about innocent, but surely those people should not have been fired upon and shot. That these people shouldn't have been fired upon in no way changes the facts about the murderous IRA or the socialist Sine Fein.

The "Flotilla protestors" were NOT innocent. The Captain of the Mavi Marmara himself is on the record, on tape, which I have posted describing precisely how the radicals on that ship premeditated an attack on the Israelis when they boarded. You're trying to lump those violent people in with the peaceful people on the other 5 ships... not going to fly here. 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=249335

YouTube - Interview with Mehmut Tuval, Captain, Mavi Marmara

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## Agorism

> which I have posted describing precisely how the radicals on that ship premeditated an attack on the Israelis when they boarded


They were on international waters. They didn't kill any of the Israeli's who pirated their ship so the resistance was pretty minimal.

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## John Taylor

> They were on international waters. They didn't kill any of the Israeli's who pirated their ship so the resistance was pretty minimal.


Pirated? No, interdicted. 

Blockades are effective in international waters.

Attempted murder is not "pretty minimal".

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## Agorism

> Pirated? No, interdicted. 
> 
> Blockades are effective in international waters.
> 
> Attempted murder is not "pretty minimal".


So who is being charged with attempted murder? Is that why the Israelis gunned down 10 people and injured another 20 or so?

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## puppetmaster

one Ireland!

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## HOLLYWOOD

> one Ireland!



Yeap... this is prefect example  of the 'HAVEs' and 'HAVE NOTs'

An invader conquers and then fills it's ideology with it's own people/culture to the majority. Then in the majority you can control all political and power aspects. Another form of Terrorism by the invaders, but I presume it's not terrorism when it's state sponsored...


You can see parody in the Jewish state of Israel were they get American Taxpayers to pay for migrating Jewish people back to Israel, so to maintain a substantial majority race/philosophy/control of the political, ideological, and power hold of the state.

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## John Taylor

> So who is being charged with attempted murder? Is that why the Israelis gunned down 10 people and injured another 20 or so?


Israel allowed those who survived attempting to kill the commandos to leave. The people who attempted to murder those men could be charged with such a crime. They acted in a premeditated manner to assault and possibly kill those men...

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## John Taylor

> one Ireland!


Let's go DUP! Kill those papist $#@!s.

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## John Taylor

> Yeap... this is prefect example  of the 'HAVEs' and 'HAVE NOTs'
> 
> An invader conquers and then fills it's ideology with it's own people/culture to the majority. Then in the majority you can control all political and power aspects. Another form of Terrorism by the invaders, but I presume it's not terrorism when it's state sponsored...
> 
> 
> You can see parody in the Jewish state of Israel were they get American Taxpayers to pay for migrating Jewish people back to Israel, so to maintain a substantial majority race/philosophy/control of the political, ideological, and power hold of the state.


You're so correct, but why stop with the redistributions stemming from the 14th, 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries??? Why not go back to the massive and unjust redistribution of 1066-1069 in England! Kick out the Normans!!!!

Why stop with England, let's repatriate all the land stolen by Poland from Germany in 1945! Let's repatriate the land stolen by Maximilian Duke of Bavaria from the Winter King Frederick of Bohemia and Elector of the Palatinate! Alsace back to Germany! Just because it was stolen during the 30 years war! 

Right? We ought to be consistent now...

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## Agorism

> Israel allowed those who survived attempting to kill the commandos to leave. The people who attempted to murder those men could be charged with such a crime. They acted in a premeditated manner to assault and possibly kill those men...


Ok, charge them and put them in a court of law in Gaza but the Isaeli pirates go on trial too.

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## John Taylor

> Ok, charge them and put them in a court of law in Gaza but the Isaeli pirates go on trial too.


Why in Gaza? Why not in Israel? Why not in Turkey? Why not in Cyprus? Why shouldn't Israel just hang them for being privateers outside the protections of international law? What's the definition of piracy, and how exactly was that definition met by the Israeli interdiction of ships attempting to break a naval blockade? Oh, and one more querry, how and why again is this any concern for the United States?

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## CryLibertyOrDeath

Northern Ireland and Israel are both foreign landgrabs and both have reaped what they sowed.  Also, the Normans integrated with the Anglo-Saxons and they also integrated in Ireland.  Many of the most active resisters of the Protestant statist church being forced upon them were actually ethnically Anglo-Normans, but they lived among the Irish.  

The Unionist community in Ireland, and Northern Ireland in particular, has always existed as a separate community that demanded and, in fact, only exist because they were promised rights by the government whereas their Catholic neighbors were disposessed and denied their freedom to worship in the traditional church, the faith of their fathers.  The existence of Northern Ireland is an inexcusable atrocity that is only a testament to a shameful British history.

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## John Taylor

> Northern Ireland and Israel are both foreign landgrabs and both have reaped what they sowed.


"[T]hey"? who is "they"? Foreign landgrabs by whom? The Ottoman Turks who stole what is now Israel from the Mamlukes of Egypt? The long dead English from 4 centuries ago in Ireland.... when the ancestors of modern Americans were butchering indians in what is now the United States while introducing slavery? So it would be justified for the dispossessed Egyptians to send suicide bombers into Gaza to help their fight to reclaim lost Egyptian soil? Or decendants of the various indian nations to launch a campaign of terror bombings and attacks against civilians in the IRA fashion? Please.

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## John Taylor

> Northern Ireland and Israel are both foreign landgrabs and both have reaped what they sowed.  Also, the Normans integrated with the Anglo-Saxons and they also integrated in Ireland.  Many of the most active resisters of the Protestant statist church being forced upon them were actually ethnically Anglo-Normans, but they lived among the Irish.  
> 
> The Unionist community in Ireland, and Northern Ireland in particular, has always existed as a separate community that demanded and, in fact, only exist because they were promised rights by the government whereas their Catholic neighbors were disposessed and denied their freedom to worship in the traditional church, the faith of their fathers.  The existence of Northern Ireland is an inexcusable atrocity that is only a testament to a shameful British history.


Nonsense. The Normans did not integrate with the Saxons for hundreds of years... why don't you give the protestant Northern Irish a few hundred more before you cast judgment? Eh? 

The "Protestant statist church"... as juxtaposed to the "Catholic liberty church"? Hahaha, you are too funny by half. 

The Unionists exist because they survived the terror campaigns of the IRA and their terrorist supporting allies in the United States. When discussing disposession, are you talking about Cromwell, or a previous century's barbaric achievements? You're castigating the English for doing what every other people in the world was doing at the same time, without calling for the re-Germanization of Alsace (stolen by the French in 1639), or by calling for the return of some towns by the former Spanish Netherlands (now Belgium) to The United Provinces? Be consistent or be silent.

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## CryLibertyOrDeath

> Nonsense. The Normans did not integrate with the Saxons for hundreds of years... why don't you give the protestant Northern Irish a few hundred more before you cast judgment? Eh? 
> 
> The "Protestant statist church"... as juxtaposed to the "Catholic liberty church"? Hahaha, you are too funny by half. 
> 
> The Unionists exist because they survived the terror campaigns of the IRA and their terrorist supporting allies in the United States. When discussing disposession, are you talking about Cromwell, or a previous century's barbaric achievements? You're castigating the English for doing what every other people in the world was doing at the same time, without calling for the re-Germanization of Alsace (stolen by the French in 1639), or by calling for the return of some towns by the former Spanish Netherlands (now Belgium) to The United Provinces? Be consistent or be silent.


The Catholic Church and the liberties of the commons went out the door with the English Reformation under Henry VIII one in the same, not that the Catholic Church has been the perfect embodiment of libertarianism throughout history.

Nevertheless, the Church of England should be in the encyclopedia as the model embodiment of a statist death-grip on a society.  It's this religious intolerance and the insistence on the Divine authority of the King that led to the centuries of oppression and sectarian violence in Ireland.

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## John Taylor

> The Catholic Church and the liberties of the commons went out the door with the English Reformation under Henry VIII one in the same, not that the Catholic Church has been the perfect embodiment of libertarianism throughout history.
> 
> Nevertheless, the Church of England should be in the encyclopedia as the model embodiment of a statist death-grip on a society.  It's this religious intolerance and the insistence on the Divine authority of the King that led to the centuries of oppression and sectarian violence in Ireland.


Hahahaha, wowsers, you must have gotten your history directly from the corpse of Ignatius Loyola! The liberties of the commons were entirely unprotected by the Catholic Church, which maintained its own courts through the Reformation. It was the common law courts of the counties and the manors which defended the rights and liberties of the people, and which created the common-law precedent utilized by the secular royal courts thereafter. 

"[N]not that the Catholic Church as been the perfect embodiment of libertarianism throughout history" 

Talk about the understatement of the century. Good God, the Catholic church has more innocent blood on their hands than any other institution in modern history. Just look at what they did to the Waldensians in the Alps... or the Moriscos in Spain... or a hundred other examples. 

As for the "Church of England". The Northern Irish unionists are heavily Presbyterian, not Anglican. They follow a local congregational form of church governance, not a hierarchical, command and control denomination like the Catholics have managed to maintain since their violence-enforced monopoly existed. Thus, to say that I disagree with your interpretation of the history of Northern Ireland would be a substantial understatement.

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## CryLibertyOrDeath

> Hahahaha, wowsers, you must have gotten your history directly from the corpse of Ignatius Loyola! The liberties of the commons were entirely unprotected by the Catholic Church, which maintained its own courts through the Reformation. It was the common law courts of the counties and the manors which defended the rights and liberties of the people, and which created the common-law precedent utilized by the secular royal courts thereafter. 
> 
> "[N]not that the Catholic Church as been the perfect embodiment of libertarianism throughout history" 
> 
> Talk about the understatement of the century. Good God, the Catholic church has more innocent blood on their hands than any other institution in modern history. Just look at what they did to the Waldensians in the Alps... or the Moriscos in Spain... or a hundred other examples. 
> 
> As for the "Church of England". The Northern Irish unionists are heavily Presbyterian, not Anglican. They follow a local congregational form of church governance, not a hierarchical, command and control denomination like the Catholics have managed to maintain since their violence-enforced monopoly existed. Thus, to say that I disagree with your interpretation of the history of Northern Ireland would be a substantial understatement.


Scottish Presbyterians were relocated to Northern Ireland because the English wanted non-Catholics holding the power in Ireland, because of political religion.

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## John Taylor

> Scottish Presbyterians were relocated to Northern Ireland because the English wanted non-Catholics holding the power in Ireland, because of political religion.


Of course, because the Catholics in Ireland were continually being agitated and stirred up by the Jesuits to revolt against England, and were constantly inviting in Spanish and French armies (from which to launch invasions of England and Scotland). I was just pointing out that the Northern Irish are Presbyterians by and large, not Catholic-lite/Anglicans.

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## jmdrake

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the now established fact that peaceful protesters were brutally gunned down for no justifiable reason.  You want to label the IRA "terrorist"?  Well that's one place where I will agree with you.  Proof positive that the neocon mantra that "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims" is a bunch of crap.  But the existence of a terrorist wing in no way diminishes the legitimate aspirations of an entire people or movement.  Let's say for the sake of argument that the "Hutaree" turn out to be real terrorists?  (I think that's garbage at this point, but please bear with my hypothetical.)  Would that justify the government gunning down peaceful anti government protesters?  

Last point.  I recognize the "right of conquest" you are alluding to.  But it goes both ways.  The Unionists had a right to try to conquer the Republicans and vice versa.  Israel has a right to exist and keep their latest conquest and the Palestinians have a right to attempt to overturn that conquest with one of their own.  But thankfully the Irish discovered the right to coexistence which seems to be holding at the moment.  Maybe someday the Jews and Palestinians will discover that same right.  If not, withing 50 to 100 years Arabs inside Israel will outnumber Jews inside Israel just by virtue of birth rates.  You can't escape demographics.




> Hahahaha, wowsers, you must have gotten your history directly from the corpse of Ignatius Loyola! The liberties of the commons were entirely unprotected by the Catholic Church, which maintained its own courts through the Reformation. It was the common law courts of the counties and the manors which defended the rights and liberties of the people, and which created the common-law precedent utilized by the secular royal courts thereafter. 
> 
> "[N]not that the Catholic Church as been the perfect embodiment of libertarianism throughout history" 
> 
> Talk about the understatement of the century. Good God, the Catholic church has more innocent blood on their hands than any other institution in modern history. Just look at what they did to the Waldensians in the Alps... or the Moriscos in Spain... or a hundred other examples. 
> 
> As for the "Church of England". The Northern Irish unionists are heavily Presbyterian, not Anglican. They follow a local congregational form of church governance, not a hierarchical, command and control denomination like the Catholics have managed to maintain since their violence-enforced monopoly existed. Thus, to say that I disagree with your interpretation of the history of Northern Ireland would be a substantial understatement.

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## Agorism

Governments don't have the right to exist period. People do.

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## Agorism

Blimp in light of new videos of Blair being protested in Northern Ireland today.

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## marc1888

> Who cares, the IRA is a bloodthirsty terrorist group, and their political arm Sine Fein is almost as bad politically, espousing socialism. Give the DUP self-rule police powers and they'll clear the IRA right out.


Oh John Taylor has no $#@!ing idea what he is talking about... that shocks me. Tiocfaidh Ar La

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## amy31416

> Israel allowed those who survived attempting to kill the commandos to leave. The people who attempted to murder those men could be charged with such a crime. They acted in a premeditated manner to assault and possibly kill those men...


They had an injured commando, whom they could have killed, yet they did not. In comparison, the IDF _actually_ killed people--shot them point blank in the head--on international waters after boarding *their* ship.

Who should be tried for murder? And it's been admitted that Israel was planning this for weeks--which is obvious premeditation.

You act as if those commandos jumped on that ship with a backpack full of bunnies and rainbows, when these Satanic Muslims jumped out and started beating the well-meaning chosen ones of God to death.

Give me a break. Was this part of some recent Hasbara spin training?

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## oyarde

> They had an injured commando, whom they could have killed, yet they did not. In comparison, the IDF _actually_ killed people--shot them point blank in the head--on international waters after boarding *their* ship.
> 
> Who should be tried for murder? And it's been admitted that Israel was planning this for weeks--which is obvious premeditation.
> 
> You act as if those commandos jumped on that ship with a backpack full of bunnies and rainbows, when these Satanic Muslims jumped out and started beating the well-meaning chosen ones of God to death.
> 
> Give me a break. Was this part of some recent Hasbara spin training?


Amy , I am impressed . I have never seen , bunnies , rainbows and Satan all in one sentence .  You been lookin' in my backpack ?

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