# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  [VIDEO ADDED] Ron Paul on "The Libertarian Future" @ The Mises Circle 1/26/2013

## Occam's Banana

A Mises Circle event ("The Current Crisis: An Austrian Perspective") will be held today (January 26th) in Houston TX.

Ron Paul will be giving the Carl Davis Distinguished Lecture on "The Libertarian Future" at 12:30 PM Central time (1:30 Eastern).

The Mises.tv live video stream for the event can be found here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mises-tv

SCHEDULE
*TIME (CST)*
*SPEAKER*
*TOPIC / TITLE*

9:15 AM
Lew Rockwell
Welcome/Introduction

9:30 AM
Peter Klein
The Myth of "Full Employment"

10:00 AM
Benjamin Powell
U.S. Recession Policy: Nothing New Under the "Rising" Sun

10:30 AM
N/A
(break)

11:00 AM
Joseph T. Salerno
The Fallacy of Fiscal Stimulus

11:30 AM
Bob Murphy
Only the Austrians Maintain Sane Recommendations During a Crisis

NOON
N/A
(lunch)

*12:30 PM*
*Ron Paul*
*The Libertarian Future*

1:30 PM
Tom Woods
What Should Be Done?

2:00 PM
Lew Rockwell
The Causes of the Economic Crisis

2:30 PM
various
speaker panel with Q&A






>

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## torchbearer

awesome

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## Occam's Banana

Bump for T-minus 15 minutes. Video is up, but no audio yet ...

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## torchbearer

nice crowd. looking for familiar faces.
Josh, where are you?

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## torchbearer

lots of young people. good.

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## Occam's Banana

Audio is working now.

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## Occam's Banana

> nice crowd. looking for familiar faces.
> Josh, where are you?


Lew just said it's the largest attendance they've ever had for one of these.

I bet Ron Paul has something to do with that ...

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## green73

Damn it. I missed Lew.

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## Danan

Peter Klein completely destroyed "sophisticated" Keynesians who try to argue against Austrian economists by pointing out how government spending can employ "idle resources" to productive work. The way he describes how resources that are "idle" are everything but unproductive is really insightful. I will definetely read the book he suggested and use his arguments to bug my professors.

I'm looking forward to hearing Benjamin Powell too, his work on sweatshops, etc. is amazing.

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## torchbearer

I'm learning.

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## Danan

I'd like to see more of Ben Powell at the Mises Institute. People like him and Bob Murphy, the new generation of economists Lew and Murray helped to train, are really pushing Austrian Economics into the mainstream.

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## July

I've been watching the stream all morning so far...great stuff.

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## Occam's Banana

Back from break. Joe Salerno is up now.

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## mac_hine

This is excellent. 

Great way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

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## Occam's Banana

Salerno kicked ass, as usual. That was some great stuff on the trillion dollar coin idea.

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## Danan

I don't really see the point in Joe Salerno's talk. Of course if the job of the Fed were solely to finance excess government spending (that is what can not be paid with tax revenue), then the direct creation of money for the government would be less harmful then to create the money the way its done now and channel it back to the government.

But why is that important? Nobody argues for the Fed in order to have an institution to that finances the government. Advocates for the Fed argue for it because of "economic and price stability" and stuff like that. Of coure that's completely insane given the Federal Reserve's history and theoretical economic knowledge, but all of them would state that what Joe said is irrelvant to their arguments.

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## sailingaway

Thank you!!!! And thank you to Mises Institute for letting it be streamed!

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## torchbearer

> This is excellent. 
> 
> Great way to spend a Saturday afternoon.



quality tv time.

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## Danan

Bob is really obsessed with Krugman.

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## green73

Meanwhile over at DP there's nothing on this. But they do have a ReasonTV video entitled "Weekend Watching".

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## sailingaway

> Meanwhile over at DP there's nothing on this. But they do have a ReasonTV video entitled "Weekend Watching".


I just posted it. 

I want Ron's speech watched....

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## mac_hine

Is the video on anyone else's stream jumpy? Both Salerno and Murphy looked like they have a bad case of Parkinson's.

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## Occam's Banana

> I don't really see the point in Joe Salerno's talk. Of course if the job of the Fed were solely to finance excess government spending (that is what can not be paid with tax revenue), then the direct creation of money for the government would be less harmful then to create the money the way its done now and channel it back to the government.
> 
> But why is that important? Nobody argues for the Fed in order to have an institution to that finances the government. Advocates for the Fed argue for it because of "economic and price stability" and stuff like that. Of coure that's completely insane given the Federal Reserve's history and theoretical economic knowledge, but all of them would state that what Joe said is irrelvant to their arguments.


In order to be sure, I'll have to watch it again when the 'tube comes out; but I think you missed the point of Salerno's talk. His purpose wasn't to attack the Fed or to criticize its policies - at least not directly. So whatever the defenders and advocates of the Fed would have to say about Salerno's talk is not relevant. He wasn't directing his remarks at them.

He was going after the trillion-dollar coin idea. He pointed out that it is an extremely dangerous and foolish idea - but one that just happens not to be as dangerous or foolish as the Federal Reserve itself. The only reason the Fed came into it was because he wanted to point out that the Federal Reserve system is even more dangerous and foolish. And since he was using the trillion-dollar coin as the basis for his talk, he cast matters in terms of financing government spending (since that is what the trillion-dollar coin is supposed to be for). Things like price stability or whatnot (the bases for traditional defenses of the Federal Reserve) were simply not relevant to his purpose.

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## sailingaway

> Is the video on anyone else's stream jumpy? Both Salerno and Murphy looked like they have a bad case of Parkinson's.


We may be stretching their capablility. Hope they fix it before Ron comes on, if so, or we'll swamp it.

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## mac_hine

> We may be stretching their capablility. Hope they fix it before Ron comes on, if so, or we'll swamp it.


There's 188 viewers right now. I'm sure the number will spike when Ron speaks.

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## belian78

Do you have to have a login for ustream to be able to see it?

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## Danan

> He was going after the trillion-dollar coin idea. He pointed out that it is an extremely dangerous and foolish idea - but one that just happens not to be as dangerous or foolish as the Federal Reserve itself. The only reason the Fed came into it was because he wanted to point out that the Federal Reserve system is even more dangerous and foolish. And since he was using the trillion-dollar coin as the basis for his talk, he cast matters in terms of financing government spending (since that is what the trillion-dollar coin is supposed to be for). Things like price stability or whatnot (the bases for traditional defenses of the Federal Reserve) were simply not relevant to his purpose.


Yeah but financing the government is not supposed to be a function of the Fed. I know that in reality it is the case, but that's not a case against the Fed itself, it's only an argument against a certain activity of the Fed that should, theoretically, not exist at all. And also, there are many economists who would even argue that the Fed is not actually financing the government (we all would disagree with this notion, but that's a different subject).

So my point is that his argument "deficit financing through a trillion dollar coin is even less harmful than deficit financing through the Federal Reserve System" would imho be shared almost unanimously by economists of all varieties and thus it's irrelevant. Pointing out that the Fed is indeed engaging in this activity and why that is indeed relevant, but it doesn't seem like this was the aim of his speech. I could be wrong though. But even then, the other activities of the Fed (like creating "stability" or "low unemployment") are _way_ worse for the economy, and in contrast to government financing almost all non-Austrian economists ar in favor of them.

I don't know, I'll have to watch it again, too. I'm not saying that Joe is wrong, but rather that he is kind of attacking a strawman.

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## Danan

> Do you have to have a login for ustream to be able to see it?


No.

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## FSP-Rebel

> Do you have to have a login for ustream to be able to see it?


no

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## belian78

Too funny, the computer at work won't bring up the stream, but my phone will.

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## mac_hine

Ron's speech has been moved to 12:45 CST

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## Occam's Banana

> There's 188 viewers right now. I'm sure the number will spike when Ron speaks.


 240-plus viewers now and counting ...

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## green73

> We may be stretching their capablility. Hope they fix it before Ron comes on, if so, or we'll swamp it.


I doubt it. Ustream can handle thousands of viewers.  I haven't noticed the choppy video because I've only been listening.   

I see it's on the Front page now at DP. Well done!

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## torchbearer

> 240-plus viewers now and counting ...


its climbing fast.
i hope these people stick around for more.

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## Occam's Banana

Lew Rockwell introducing Ron Paul now ...

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## Occam's Banana

Heh. I was about to change the thread title, but it looks like a mod (sailing ?) beat me to it.

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## sailingaway

Television?? Etc??? Lew is a TEASE!!!!!

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## green73

Lew on the big project: Ron is going to have a huge presence on television.

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## sailingaway

Yea, Carol!!

Yeah, sorry, I wanted people in new posts to know it is on....

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## mac_hine

*THE INSTITUTE FOR PEACE AND PROSPERITY*

Great name

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## sailingaway

> its climbing fast.
> i hope these people stick around for more.


Tom Woods is right after, that's a hook....

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## July

> *THE INSTITUTE FOR PEACE AND PROSPERITY*
> 
> Great name


Agreed...

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## Occam's Banana

I wonder if Ron is going to participate in the Q&A session. I hope so ...

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## green73

"We should never give an inch on foreign policy." -Ron Paul

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## sailingaway

> I wonder if Ron is going to participate in the Q&A session. I hope so ...



Me too, that is where he really shines.  His speeches are good, but he tends to repeat himself if you watch a lot of them.  His views on issues and solutions are absolutely unparallelled as far as I have found to date, however.

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## mac_hine

> "We should never give an inch on foreign policy." -Ron Paul


We should all tweet that to Rand

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## torchbearer

> "We should never give an inch on foreign policy." -Ron Paul


actions are greater than words.
I watch the actions, not the words.

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## sailingaway

Pandering is an action.  If you pretend you are different things to different groups, can anyone trust you?

It is about character to me and whom I can trust.  I TRUST Ron Paul.  I dearly want others I can trust.  I haven't written off everyone else, but no one else has yet earned that trust, and some have counts against them in that regard.

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## green73

> actions are greater than words.
> I watch the actions, not the words.


"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come."

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## sailingaway

I get the impression he is trying to work up a new speech....

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## mac_hine

> I get the impression he is trying to work up a new speech....


I agree. Ron's never been one to mince words. His criticisms of government seem to bit a bit sharper in this speech as opposed to his speeches on the campaign trail.

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## mac_hine

What did he just say? something along the lines of, "if you're not in it 100%, it's a waste of time"

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## sailingaway

I looked at the description in his lecture series bio of the 'two speeches' he'd have to offer (although we all know he'll ad lib...) and one included 'anecdotes of barriers to liberty from working in congress'... I think he is putting in anecdotes but needs to work on the segues between them a bit, just as a delivery matter, but there is new stuff here.

LOL! @ Gingrich acknowledging wanting to avoid our emails....

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## sailingaway

Here's a panorama of the crowd at Ron's speech -- over 600 - the most ever at a Mises event.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9bgxsid8t4...%2047%2059.jpg

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## torchbearer

"others make those ideas palatable" -Ron Paul

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## torchbearer

> "There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come."



yes, but you can say one thing and vote or execute another.
What you do is greater than what you say.
don't obsfucate what i'm talking about.

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## mac_hine

> Here's a panorama of the crowd at Ron's speech -- over 600 - the most ever at a Mises event.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9bgxsid8t4...%2047%2059.jpg


600 watching live, 550 on Ustream. Not bad

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## torchbearer

I feel lucky to have met and lived in the time of Ron Paul.

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## sailingaway

> 600 watching live, 550 on Ustream. Not bad


particularly when we had no idea in advance it would be ustreamed.

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## sailingaway

link crashed for me, but he was wrapping up.

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## Occam's Banana

Great! He's taking questions now (so I guess he won't be on the Q&A panel later).

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## sailingaway

> Great! He's taking questions now (so I guess he won't be on the Q&A panel later).


NOOOOOO!!!!

my link crashed!!!!

yea! He's back!

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## sailingaway

Ouch, Thomas Massie.

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## Occam's Banana

He called Thomas Massie "Robert" ...  oops! But he got "Justin Amash" right ...

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## sailingaway

any question with 'the Mafia interveners' in it is delicate, I guess I'm glad he didn't hear that one.

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## Occam's Banana

In his presentation (his first at a Mises Institute event), Benjamin Powell teased Tom Woods about plugging his books.

Looking forward to Tom's "old gunslinger" reaction to the "young gun" calling him out ...

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## sailingaway

I love Tom's take on Ron's campaign....

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## Confederate



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## belian78

> 


With your blind hate for Libertarians, Confederate, I'm pleasantly surprised that you took the time to watch this.  I hope you're sticking around for Tom Woods, he's always brilliant.

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## Confederate

> With your blind hate for Libertarians, Confederate, I'm pleasantly surprised that you took the time to watch this.  I hope you're sticking around for Tom Woods, he's always brilliant.


I don't hate libertarians, I agree with them on many issues. I'm just not one.

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## torchbearer

> I don't hate libertarians, I agree with them on many issues. I'm just not one.


What part of self-ownership do you disagree with?

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## ClydeCoulter

I'm still trying to digest the libertarian thing also, Confederate.  I firstly agree with the NAP, and sound money.  Foreign policy is important first, then also, and as important, liberty here at home, and I think both are needed for the other to work.

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## sailingaway

I don't need to be 'libertarian' nor am I offended at being called that. It means so many different things to so many different people.  I know torchbearer's reasoned from NAP definition, but there are a ton of others popularly believed to be and called libertarian.  I mean, look at Beck....

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## belian78

Confederate's hate is for (L)ibertarians, as he sees them all as just spoiling Republican races and handing them to the Democrats.  Or his past posts seems to give that impression.

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## torchbearer

> Confederate's hate is for (L)ibertarians, as he sees them all as just spoiling Republican races and handing them to the Democrats. Or his past posts seems to give that impression.


His idea the republicans are good democrats are bad is a simpleton view and incorrect.
the leadership of the GOP are progressives. he supports them apparently.

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## belian78

Back on topic, I hope some tubes get posted soon, I'm working and missed sections of both Ron and Tom.  

/begs

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## Confederate

> His idea the republicans are good democrats are bad is a simpleton view and incorrect.
> the leadership of the GOP are progressives. he supports them apparently.


I've never said I think Republicans are good. They tend to be better than Democrats, but for the most part are for just as big a government. I do think the LP is a waste of time and money, though. And I hate the social liberalism of most libertarians.

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## torchbearer

> I've never said I think Republicans are good. They tend to be better than Democrats, but for the most part are for just as big a government. I do think the LP is a waste of time and money, though. And I hate the social liberalism of most libertarians.


 you mean, you hate the whole self-ownership thing.

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## belian78

> I've never said I think Republicans are good. They tend to be better than Democrats, but for the most part are for just as big a government. I do think the LP is a waste of time and money, though. And I hate the social liberalism of most libertarians.


Yeah, self governance and freedom are pesky things, are they not?

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## FSP-Rebel

> Confederate's hate is for (L)ibertarians, as he sees them all as just spoiling Republican races and handing them to the Democrats.  Or his past posts seems to give that impression.


As a libertarian and having been a dues paying member of the LP from the time I was 14 until somewhere in my mid-twenties, I've come to evolve w/ Ron's restoring the GOP concept. I was well aware of the RLC back then but it took a guy like Ron to give the concept traction. Clearly, we've made major strides in many states and also smaller ones in many more states and counties, so there's no reason to abandon that just because the vehicle isn't the LP. And, I'm all for the LP and CP to run candidates in races where there isn't an identifiable liberty leaning republican (80+) running but it infuriates me and runs the saboteur gauntlet when they do to known liberty folk. We're not getting the most bang for the buck when libertarians waste resources running against the likes of Rep Amash. In fact, the LP is making itself an enemy to those libertarian republicans in other races when they try nipping at the heels of great republicans such as Amash. Because we cherish electing solid liberty republicans and then we see the LP spite us as RLC peeps because we're not using the LP by stabbing our guys in the back, you further the division even more. It's only the holier-than-thou libertarians that refuse to go with what works and merely dabble in irrelevancy. Life is too short to spin one's wheels doing something for the sake of doing it w/o a clear cut strategy to succeed. The definition of insanity>

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## torchbearer

> As a libertarian and having been a dues paying member of the LP from the time I was 14 until somewhere in my mid-twenties, I've come to evolve w/ Ron's restoring the GOP concept. I was well aware of the RLC back then but it took a guy like Ron to give the concept traction. Clearly, we've made major strides in many states and also smaller ones in many more states and counties, so there's no reason to abandon that just because the vehicle isn't the LP. And, I'm all for the LP and CP to run candidates in races where there isn't an identifiable liberty leaning republican (80+) running but it infuriates me and runs the saboteur gauntlet when they do to known liberty folk. We're not getting the most bang for the buck when libertarians waste resources running against the likes of Rep Amash. In fact, the LP is making itself an enemy to those libertarian republicans in other races when they try nipping at the heels of great republicans such as Amash. Because we cherish electing solid liberty republicans and then we see the LP spite us as RLC peeps because we're not using the LP by stabbing our guys in the back, you further the division even more. It's only the holier-than-thou libertarians that refuse to go with what works and merely dabble in irrelevancy. Life is too short to spin one's wheels doing something for the sake of doing it w/o a clear cut strategy to succeed. The definition of insanity>


I just want to address this part of your post as a former central committee member of the LALP(a decade of service)



> the LP is making itself an enemy to those libertarian republicans in other races when they try nipping at the heels of great republicans such as Amash.


we often had times when registered libertarians would run in races against "good" republican candidates.
it was never a party endorsed decision. it was always a renegade purist who was being an ass.
It offends me that you blame the LP for such things. You can't force someone from being registered libertarian, and you can't force someone from not running in a particular race.
this $#@! happened almost yearly, and i have a feeling that this wasn't specific to just my state.
our by-laws may have forbidden us from financially supporting republican candidates, but we never plotted to run against liberty minded republicans.
the only $#@!-offs that did that were the purist, who will in the future be sabotaging rand in favor of bush/obama redux.
i don't understand their sickness/illogic, but don't blame the LP for their stupidity.

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## sailingaway

Here's a great picture for playing 'where's Waldo' with....

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## jj-

> "others make those ideas palatable" -Ron Paul


Maybe Rand Paul read that part of Human Action?

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## sailingaway

Ron made them pretty palatable:

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## MikeStanart

This event was a great success.  The After party (hosted by Students for Liberty & Liberty on the Rocks) included Karaoke with about 125 attending.  Lots of beer & fun.  We will be following this event up with many more.

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## FSP-Rebel

> i don't understand their sickness/illogic, but don't blame the LP for their stupidity.


It naturally reflects on the party and perhaps they should have more control over their banner. It's highly possible that this illogic may continue with more of the Rand haters specifically targeting libertarian republicans out of spite and using the LP as a vehicle. I mean, it only takes that one person to put his name on the ballot and goad other libertarian lever pullers to siphon the votes away.

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## torchbearer

> It naturally reflects on the party and perhaps they should have more control over their banner. It's highly possible that this illogic may continue with more of the Rand haters specifically targeting libertarian republicans out of spite and using the LP as a vehicle. I mean, it only takes that one person to put his name on the ballot and goad other libertarian lever pullers to siphon the votes away.



well that is the same fallacy the GOP leadership suffers from...
those votes don't belong to us, we have to earn them.
if they go to another candidate, they didn't steal them from us. we lost them.

If Ron had run Indie in 2012- he wouldn't have stolen votes from romney or obama, they would have lost them to Ron.

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## Occam's Banana

> This event was a great success.  The After party (hosted by Students for Liberty & Liberty on the Rocks) included Karaoke with about 125 attending.  Lots of beer & fun.  We will be following this event up with many more.


Did Bob Murphy perform? If he did, someone better have got it on video. The economy is suffering from a severe shortage of Bob Murphy karaoke 'tubes.

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## FSP-Rebel

> well that is the same fallacy the GOP leadership suffers from...
> those votes don't belong to us, we have to earn them.
> if they go to another candidate, they didn't steal them from us. we lost them.


I hear ya but most of the LP votes in Amash's race would likely have went to him if the other jerk wasn't on the ballot. Same thing happened here in Kerry's special election with the LP and CP (known as US Taxpayers party here) that both fielded candidates but I'll give them a pass as they were likely running (as perennials) before this $#@!storm happened. Sadly, I don't have an answer to stop LPers from sabotaging liberty republicans besides bribing someone to run under the Green banner.

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## MikeStanart

> Did Bob Murphy perform? If he did, someone better have got it on video. The economy is suffering from a severe shortage of Bob Murphy karaoke 'tubes.




Here's one of them!  Bob Murphy & YAL's Corie Whalen

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## Occam's Banana

> Here's one of them!  Bob Murphy & YAL's Corie Whalen  
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHhU3zWlIuw


Oh, hell, yeah! Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout ...

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