# Think Tank > Austrian Economics / Economic Theory >  Banning Cash: Serfdom in Our Time

## Ronin Truth

> *Banning Cash: Serfdom in Our Time*
> 
> FREEMANSPERSPECTIVE 
> 
> · Feb 9th, 2016
> 
> 20
> 
> BanningCash
> ...




www.freemansperspective.com 

Mark of the beast on the horizon, anyone?

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## Dianne

One of the main reasons they wish to eliminate cash, is to have the ability to track every purchase you make.    No more of those days when you build or fix something, get paid by cash and use it at the grocery store or a service you received, and of course forget to include it in your tax return.    That's all it is, they want to keep tabs on every thing we do and every move we make.

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## idiom

I haven't used cash in over 15 years. Nobody here does. Only time I have used it is when I visit America. Its like going back in time.

Yet some how Americans are way more oppressed.

Its actually really extremely convenient. No carrying coins around, no really gross money handling. Need to split a cheque you just do it all by mobile phone. No credit cards ever, just direct and instant account to account transactions.

Stores never have any cash in the till to steal. They don't have to make large cash deposits at banks.

The whole issue is bull$#@! and designed to distract you from the fact you already lost all your freedom. "I HAVE CASH THOUGH! I'M  FREE!" The soviets and Chinese had cash you $#@!wits.

Dying in the gulags they were still using cash.

This is almost as $#@!tarded as thinking gold isn't a global currency.

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## Deborah K

It's not going to happen, if for no other reason than technology isn't advanced enough to instantaneously handle system glitches.  I've experienced, on at least two occasions, systems being down when I'm making a purchase, which required me to pull out cash. 

In addition, there will always be gray and black markets.  There will always be people who have 'opted out' of the forced income tax system.  Bartering only goes so far, silver and gold, other precious and semi precious metals will never lose their value and will always be the back-up currency.  Currency has and always will be necessary within a civilized system.

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## Lucille

Saw this 1988 Economist cover making the rounds:

https://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...mist-magazine/



> THIRTY years from now, Americans, Japanese, Europeans, and people in many other rich countries, and some relatively poor ones will probably be paying for their shopping with the same currency. Prices will be quoted not in dollars, yen or D-marks but in, let’s say, the phoenix. The phoenix will be favoured by companies and shoppers because it will be more convenient than today’s national currencies, which by then will seem a quaint cause of much disruption to economic life in the last twentieth century.
> –
> At the beginning of 1988 this appears an outlandish prediction. Proposals for eventual monetary union proliferated five and ten years ago, but they hardly envisaged the setbacks of 1987. The governments of the big economies tried to move an inch or two towards a more managed system of exchange rates – a logical preliminary, it might seem, to radical monetary reform. For lack of co-operation in their underlying economic policies they bungled it horribly, and provoked the rise in interest rates that brought on the stock market crash of October. These events have chastened exchange-rate reformers. The market crash taught them that the pretence of policy co-operation can be worse than nothing, and that until real co-operation is feasible (i.e., until governments surrender some economic sovereignty) further attempts to peg currencies will flounder.
> 
> The new world economy
> The biggest change in the world economy since the early 1970’s is that flows of money have replaced trade in goods as the force that drives exchange rates. as a result of the relentless integration of the world’s financial markets, differences in national economic policies can disturb interest rates (or expectations of future interest rates) only slightly, yet still call forth huge transfers of financial assets from one country to another. These transfers swamp the flow of trade revenues in their effect on the demand and supply for different currencies, and hence in their effect on exchange rates. As telecommunications technology continues to advance, these transactions will be cheaper and faster still. With unco-ordinated economic policies, currencies can get only more volatile.
> ….
> In all these ways national economic boundaries are slowly dissolving. As the trend continues, the appeal of a currency union across at least the main industrial countries will seem irresistible to everybody except foreign-exchange traders and governments. In the phoenix zone, economic adjustment to shifts in relative prices would happen smoothly and automatically, rather as it does today between different regions within large economies (a brief on pages 74-75 explains how.) The absence of all currency risk would spur trade, investment and employment.
> –
> ...

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## idiom

> It's not going to happen, if for no other reason than technology isn't advanced enough to instantaneously handle system glitches.  I've experienced, on at least two occasions, systems being down when I'm making a purchase, which required me to pull out cash. 
> 
> In addition, there will always be gray and black markets.  There will always be people who have 'opted out' of the forced income tax system.  Bartering only goes so far, silver and gold, other precious and semi precious metals will never lose their value and will always be the back-up currency.  Currency has and always will be necessary within a civilized system.


Technology handles it just fine here.

America, the dark ages of actual technology implementation.

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## Dr.3D

> It's not going to happen, if for no other reason than technology isn't advanced enough to instantaneously handle system glitches.  I've experienced, on at least two occasions, systems being down when I'm making a purchase, which required me to pull out cash. 
> 
> In addition, there will always be gray and black markets.  There will always be people who have 'opted out' of the forced income tax system.  Bartering only goes so far, silver and gold, other precious and semi precious metals will never lose their value and will always be the back-up currency.  Currency has and always will be necessary within a civilized system.


Yes, I took my dog to the vet the other day and didn't take cash.  When they were done giving the dog shots and all, I handed them a debit card and they told me the machine wasn't working.  I had to drive ten miles home and ten miles back so I could pay them with cash.

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## Deborah K

> Technology handles it just fine here.
> 
> America, the dark ages of actual technology implementation.


What do you want, a cookie?

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## heavenlyboy34

> Technology handles it just fine here.
> 
> America, the dark ages of actual technology implementation.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure y'all don't have a massive surveillance State to be concerned about. Most folks would be less concerned if they didn't have to fear Big Brother.

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## Anti Federalist

It won't have to be banned, like idiom here, people will happily give up the anonymity of cash in exchange for the "convenience" of using plastic.

It's been more than a couple of times now, where I have had to share a cab with shipmates, and not a single one of them, had a more than couple dollars on them. 

*That fact that Big Brother now has a record of each purchase, place and time, to be used against you, the fact that every time you swipe that idiot plastic card (or soon give thumb and retina scans) the banskters take a piece of the action, thus making trillions of dollars of "skim" every year, and the fact that everfucking government still charges you taxes to coin and print money, is just lost on them.*

It's hip, cool and new...it's chains, but hip, cool and new ones.

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## DamianTV

Without Cash, EVERY transaction will be subject to Banking approval, thus, even more fines and fees and endless interest.

---

*Something Very Disturbing Spotted In A Morgan Stanley Presentation*
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...entation-slide




> With central bankers losing credibility left and right, and failing outright to boost the "wealth effect" no matter what they throw at it, the next big question is when will central planners around the world unveil the cashless society which is a necessary and sufficient condition to a regime of global NIRP.
> 
> And while in recent days we have seen op-eds by both Bloomberg and FT urging the banning of cash, the most disturbing development we have seen yet in the push for a cashless society has come from the following slide in a Morgan Stanley presentation, one in which the bank's head of EMEA equity research Huw van Steenis, pointed out the following... 
> 
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...ve%20rates.jpg
> 
> ...

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## fedupinmo

> Technology handles it just fine here.
> 
> America, the dark ages of actual technology implementation.


Meh.  We don't need it that bad. 
We like cash money and handshakes in these here parts...

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## idiom

> Without Cash, EVERY transaction will be subject to Banking approval, thus, even more fines and fees and endless interest.


Actually what we found is that the banks have to do it for free to be competitive. It is completely free and instant to move money between people and banks.

The banks like it because they don't have to deal with credit card companies, or cash handling. Its way cheaper for a bank to operate digitally than with physical cash.

I only get fees for cash based transactions like cash deposits or withdrawals.

Businesses like it because its immediate and secure. Basically no cash on premises means there is no point in robbing you. Works for Taxi's and other mobile operations too.

It is far more efficient. Digital transactions are simply a lot more competitive. If your store is cash only, nobody will shop there.

Unless of course its drugs, so basically the last refuge of cash is government intervention. End the drug war and cash will disappear.

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## Anti Federalist

> I only get fees for cash based transactions like cash deposits or withdrawals.


You do not see them.

The fees are assessed on the seller's end.

Who, of course, roll that over into the cost of the product or service you're buying.

That's why, here anyway, there are still gas stations, for instance, that offer 5 to 10 cents of discount for cash purchases.

Of course, the bankster's fees are nominal *now*, especially if you do a lot of volume (another whack at small business).

But wait until you have no alternative but to use their system.

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## Origanalist

> Actually what we found is that the banks have to do it for free to be competitive. It is completely free and instant to move money between people and banks.
> 
> The banks like it because they don't have to deal with credit card companies, or cash handling. Its way cheaper for a bank to operate digitally than with physical cash.
> 
> I only get fees for cash based transactions like cash deposits or withdrawals.
> 
> Businesses like it because its immediate and secure. Basically no cash on premises means there is no point in robbing you. Works for Taxi's and other mobile operations too.
> 
> It is far more efficient. Digital transactions are simply a lot more competitive. If your store is cash only, nobody will shop there.
> ...


You hand over records of every transaction you make, knock yourself out. I deal almost exclusively in cash. I am giving Ronan a rare + rep, I $#@!ing hate the government tracking every stinking thing I do. It's why I'll never start another business.

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## heavenlyboy34

> You do not see them.
> 
> The fees are assessed on the seller's end.
> 
> Who, of course, roll that over into the cost of the product or service you're buying.
> 
> That's why, here anyway, there are still gas stations, for instance, that offer 5 to 10 cents of discount for cash purchases.
> 
> Of course, the bankster's fees are nominal *now*, especially if you do a lot of volume (another whack at small business).
> ...


Yes, this^^ QFT. As Harry Browne used to say, TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch)

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## Mad Raven

This is a small issue compared to the credit card interchange fees put on merchants. That 3% of gross receipts makes a huge impact. All the payments I receive are already trackable. I do zero business in cash. Nobody wants to pay with cash. I'd gladly switch to another method that is also tracked that is much cheaper, if only consumers would switch to it. Some countries are already doing it better with cheap bank transfers. They've been charging these ridiculous 3% fees for decades now, despite jumps in technology that in a free market would cause the fees to go down. The system is being propped up by regulation. These fees are the single biggest business expense that many businesses have to pay.

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## Origanalist

> This is a small issue compared to the credit card interchange fees put on merchants. That 3% of gross receipts makes a huge impact. All the payments I receive are already trackable. I do zero business in cash. Nobody wants to pay with cash. I'd gladly switch to another method that is also tracked that is much cheaper, if only consumers would switch to it. Some countries are already doing it better with cheap bank transfers. They've been charging these ridiculous 3% fees for decades now, despite jumps in technology that in a free market would cause the fees to go down. The system is being propped up by regulation. These fees are the single biggest business expense that many businesses have to pay.


I always pay with cash unless I purchase online.

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## Anti Federalist

> Saw this 1988 Economist cover making the rounds:
> 
> https://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...mist-magazine/


Yup. 

All rolling out as planned.

Welcome to the new world order, where soon, even death itself will not be permitted as an escape.

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## Anti Federalist

> I always pay with cash unless I purchase online.


Well, you're obviously not just a technological Luddite and fuddy duddy, but probably some sort of criminal or drug lord or terrorist.

Reported.

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## Origanalist

> Well, you're obviously not just a technological Luddite and fuddy duddy, but probably some sort of criminal or drug lord or terrorist.
> 
> Reported.


Meh, I'll be toast soon anyway I'm sure.

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## Danke

The only time I use cash is when I go downtown to make a purchase.

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## heavenlyboy34

> This is a small issue compared to the credit card interchange fees put on merchants. That 3% of gross receipts makes a huge impact. All the payments I receive are already trackable. I do zero business in cash. Nobody wants to pay with cash.* I'd gladly switch to another method that is also tracked that is much cheaper, if only consumers would switch to it.* Some countries are already doing it better with cheap bank transfers. They've been charging these ridiculous 3% fees for decades now, despite jumps in technology that in a free market would cause the fees to go down. The system is being propped up by regulation. These fees are the single biggest business expense that many businesses have to pay.


paypal?

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## oyarde

I pay cash for everything that I do not write a check for .I only write a check for something I do not care if the govt sees .I also barter and accept gold and silver .

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## opal

we have a tractor supply here that asks for your zip code even when paying cash.. last time I gave them an out of state zip that I lived in around 1977

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## idiom

> You do not see them.
> 
> The fees are assessed on the seller's end.
> 
> Who, of course, roll that over into the cost of the product or service you're buying.
> 
> That's why, here anyway, there are still gas stations, for instance, that offer 5 to 10 cents of discount for cash purchases.
> 
> Of course, the bankster's fees are nominal *now*, especially if you do a lot of volume (another whack at small business).
> ...


I have worked both ends. No fees.

Its cheaper for the bank not to handle cash.

Even the smallest businesses do everything digitally. Its a significant cost in time and labour for a small business to have to move a lot of cash around, and a risk to the entire operation.

Its usually 2% extra for a credit card, but who the $#@! uses those? Just use digital currency. Bank to bank, no credit card companies in between.

No cash = no theft and no loss.

A person can be identified from any 8 receipts already. There's a $#@! tonne of ways to track you. Not having a normal digital life is more of a red flag than having one.

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## idiom

> I also barter and accept gold and silver .


See those are both global currencies. I ain't going near them.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I haven't used cash in over 15 years. Nobody here does. Only time I have used it is when I visit America. Its like going back in time.


So when there is a garage sale, or you sell something on Craigslist, how is payment done? When the kid down the street mows the lawn or babysits, how do you pay them? When a group of people chip in and send someone down to the store for beer and avocados, how do you chip in?

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## heavenlyboy34

> See those are both global currencies. I ain't going near them.


They're money, not "currency".

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## opal

> So when there is a garage sale, or you sell something on Craigslist, how is payment done? When the kid down the street mows the lawn or babysits, how do you pay them? When a group of people chip in and send someone down to the store for beer and avocados, how do you chip in?


obviously.. he's using a card for weed too.. egad

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## Anti Federalist

> So when there is a garage sale, or you sell something on Craigslist, how is payment done? When the kid down the street mows the lawn or babysits, how do you pay them? When a group of people chip in and send someone down to the store for beer and avocados, how do you chip in?


Retina scans for New Credits on their "smart" devices.

Good question.

Like I stated before, I've seen now a number of times where these kids come to work, thousands of miles from home, and have four dollars in their pockets.

After a general rant about "broke ass, no money having, muthafuckers", I try to educate them on how the system is enslaving them and they are voluntarily allowing it because "convenience".

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## idiom

> So when there is a garage sale, or you sell something on Craigslist, how is payment done? When the kid down the street mows the lawn or babysits, how do you pay them? When a group of people chip in and send someone down to the store for beer and avocados, how do you chip in?


by mobile phone

Account to account. Easy as.

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## DamianTV

> You do not see them.
> 
> The fees are assessed on the seller's end.
> 
> Who, of course, roll that over into the cost of the product or service you're buying.
> 
> That's why, here anyway, there are still gas stations, for instance, that offer 5 to 10 cents of discount for cash purchases.
> 
> Of course, the bankster's fees are nominal *now*, especially if you do a lot of volume (another whack at small business).
> ...


Zero alternative is how a Bank can rule with an iron fist over people with the same impunity that a government does.

The best business to be in is the business of government, where by one can exploit the law and require licenses and fees to practice in said field, yet, create loopholes so that you are exempt from those fees.  When one is in the business of government, one can easily prohibit competition.

When there finally is zero alternative, as mentioned, and every purchase and minor transaction a person does is subject to approval, those minor transactions that we tend to discredit as unimportant will be the ones that bite us in the ass.  If youre on food stamps and borrow 20 bucks from a family member who is on social security, youre both screwed because that 20 bucks will be counted as "income" for the person on food stamps, then counted as "income" again by social security administration should that 20 bucks ever be repaid.  The consequences will be small, but incremental and cumulative, which will eventually crush a person under their weight.  Rainstorms are just as cumulative, thousands of tiny droplets, that, when overloaded, can drown many people.  Chinese would call this death by a thousand paper cuts.

Cash = Privacy
Credit = Control

Suffer your assigned poverty, mundanes.

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## Mad Raven

> paypal?


Paypal is the same rate, about 2.5% depending on volume. It might be free for individuals, but not businesses, so that might be where you're confused.

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## sam1952

> by mobile phone
> 
> Account to account. Easy as.


Seriously??? Say it with cash...

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## Origanalist

> by mobile phone
> 
> Account to account. Easy as.


Lolol

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## Brian4Liberty

> by mobile phone
> 
> Account to account. Easy as.


Interesting, everyone would have to have a smart phone and proper bank set-up. Kids have them too? Seems like this ease of transfer would also lend itself to ease of fraud.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Actually what we found is that the banks have to do it for free to be competitive. It is completely free and instant to move money between people and banks.
> 
> The banks like it because they don't have to deal with credit card companies, or cash handling. Its way cheaper for a bank to operate digitally than with physical cash.
> 
> I only get fees for cash based transactions like cash deposits or withdrawals.
> 
> Businesses like it because its immediate and secure. Basically no cash on premises means there is no point in robbing you. Works for Taxi's and other mobile operations too.
> 
> It is far more efficient. Digital transactions are simply a lot more competitive. If your store is cash only, nobody will shop there.
> ...


Well, what works in the tiny Shire might not work as well in Plutocratic America. True competition is something that is avoided like the plague by our crony-corporatist system. It is almost guaranteed that the transactions will be seen as a new income stream for the government and connected crony bankers. A revenue stream with centrally planned fees, surcharges, taxes, profits and regulated competition (i.e. an oligopoly for the crony bankers).

And Big Sister will watch all... Bloomberg, Hillary and Bernie will make sure that nothing "unhealthy" or "unsafe" is purchased. Even better, purchase trends can be used to predict ungood thought and ungood actions. Off to the Gulag for re-education.

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## TheTexan

> Interesting, everyone would have to have a smart phone and proper bank set-up. Kids have them too? Seems like this ease of transfer would also lend itself to ease of fraud.


If you don't have a smart phone & bank account you don't deserve to buy stuff

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## Dr.3D

> If you don't have a *smart phone* & bank account you don't deserve to buy stuff


And if you do, you don't have as much money as you had before you got one, so you can buy less stuff.

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## sam1952

I honestly can't believe this topic is even being discussed. In a perfect world this system doens't work. Reminds me of the commerical a few years back where there was cute music and everyone was buying their coffee, newspaper, ect. and swiping their debit card. Then some fool comes up and wants to pay in cash. The efficient checkout grinds to a halt and all patrons look at the person paying with cash with laugh-ability. 

But lets not speculate, lets look at a real life scenario (no EOTWAWKI $#@!)... Hurricane Katrina, seems during the mass confussion and exodus out of the city credit machines failed on gas pumps, atm's, grocery stores, just about everywhere, even if there was electricity. Everything was cash if you had it. Your debit/CC were not of much use I guess. But I guess that stuff never happens. Snowstorm, tornado's, earthquakes, you know, fantasy things like that.

Side note.... I remember reading an article about Katrina and one piece of advise. Now am guessing most of us have a few hundred bucks or so laying around for such emergencies. The article went on to say your emergency money was useless in hundred dollar bills. It went on to suggest have it in one's and five's. Kinda funny trying to buy a bottle of water, coke, candy bar, for a few bucks and only having a hundred or twenty. Sorry dude, no change... Point being keep some small bills around with your larger ones.

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## oyarde

> If you don't have a smart phone & bank account you don't deserve to buy stuff


My goal is to get to where I do not need to buy stuff . I did though , spend 1.06 today for an American made leather belt .

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## oyarde

> by mobile phone
> 
> Account to account. Easy as.


My yard sale is cash or silver dimes , same as the wood , eggs and nightcrawlers I sell.

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## Danke

Austrians should have the constitutional right to use cash to protect their privacy, Deputy Economy Minister Harald Mahrer said, as the European Union considers curbing the use of banknotes and coins.
“We don’t want someone to be able to track digitally what we buy, eat and drink, what books we read and what movies we watch,” Mahrer said on Austrian public radio station Oe1. “We will fight everywhere against rules” including caps on cash purchases, he said.
EU finance ministers vowed at a meeting in Brussels on Friday to crack down on “illicit cash movements.” They urged the European Commission, the EU’s executive arm, to “explore the need for appropriate restrictions on cash payments exceeding certain thresholds and to engage with the European Central Bank to consider appropriate measures regarding high denomination notes, in particular the 500-euro note.”
Ministers told the commission to report on its findings by May 1.
Before it's here, it's on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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## LibertyEagle

> I have worked both ends. No fees.
> 
> Its cheaper for the bank not to handle cash.
> 
> Even the smallest businesses do everything digitally. Its a significant cost in time and labour for a small business to have to move a lot of cash around, and a risk to the entire operation.
> 
> Its usually 2% extra for a credit card, but who the $#@! uses those? Just use digital currency. Bank to bank, no credit card companies in between.
> 
> No cash = no theft and no loss.
> ...


That's very shortsighted of you.   You're basically saying that it's fine with you if government knows every move you make and every single thing you purchase.

None for me, please.

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## Anti Federalist

> by mobile phone
> 
> Account to account. Easy as.


So, you couldn't buy a used tire or exercise machine at yard sale without both people having $500 sail fawns, $100 plus a month "service", compatible software and card readers?

Yeah, sounds all kinds of simple and easy.

----------


## Deborah K

> I honestly can't believe this topic is even being discussed. In a perfect world this system doens't work. Reminds me of the commerical a few years back where there was cute music and everyone was buying their coffee, newspaper, ect. and swiping their debit card. Then some fool comes up and wants to pay in cash. The efficient checkout grinds to a halt and all patrons look at the person paying with cash with laugh-ability. 
> 
> But lets not speculate, lets look at a real life scenario (no EOTWAWKI $#@!)... Hurricane Katrina, seems during the mass confussion and exodus out of the city credit machines failed on gas pumps, atm's, grocery stores, just about everywhere, even if there was electricity. Everything was cash if you had it. Your debit/CC were not of much use I guess. But I guess that stuff never happens. Snowstorm, tornado's, earthquakes, you know, fantasy things like that.
> 
> Side note.... I remember reading an article about Katrina and one piece of advise. Now am guessing most of us have a few hundred bucks or so laying around for such emergencies. The article went on to say your emergency money was useless in hundred dollar bills. It went on to suggest have it in one's and five's. Kinda funny trying to buy a bottle of water, coke, candy bar, for a few bucks and only having a hundred or twenty. Sorry dude, no change... Point being keep some small bills around with your larger ones.


good point.  We also have silver in coins for that reason.

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## Anti Federalist

Was there and experienced that first hand.

The fact that I do not head out for hitch at sea without at least $500 domestic or $1000 if sailing internationally in my pocket is what allowed me to get out of there and get home.




> I honestly can't believe this topic is even being discussed. In a perfect world this system doens't work. Reminds me of the commerical a few years back where there was cute music and everyone was buying their coffee, newspaper, ect. and swiping their debit card. Then some fool comes up and wants to pay in cash. The efficient checkout grinds to a halt and all patrons look at the person paying with cash with laugh-ability. 
> 
> But lets not speculate, lets look at a real life scenario (no EOTWAWKI $#@!)... Hurricane Katrina, seems during the mass confussion and exodus out of the city credit machines failed on gas pumps, atm's, grocery stores, just about everywhere, even if there was electricity. Everything was cash if you had it. Your debit/CC were not of much use I guess. But I guess that stuff never happens. Snowstorm, tornado's, earthquakes, you know, fantasy things like that.
> 
> Side note.... I remember reading an article about Katrina and one piece of advise. Now am guessing most of us have a few hundred bucks or so laying around for such emergencies. The article went on to say your emergency money was useless in hundred dollar bills. It went on to suggest have it in one's and five's. Kinda funny trying to buy a bottle of water, coke, candy bar, for a few bucks and only having a hundred or twenty. Sorry dude, no change... Point being keep some small bills around with your larger ones.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Despite Global Economy Plummeting into Despair, Mega Banks Boast All-Time Record Profits*

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ban...dhKZ24kP38V.99


And where do you suppose those billions of dollars of profits came from?

Card and transaction fees, mostly.

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## The Gold Standard

> So, you couldn't buy a used tire or exercise machine at yard sale without both people having $500 sail fawns, $100 plus a month "service", compatible software and card readers?
> 
> Yeah, sounds all kinds of simple and easy.


Used goods and yard sales deprive the state of valuable tax revenue. You should be ashamed of yourself for worrying about such a scenario. All of these things will be banned. You will buy new tires and new exercise equipment with your iPhone and you will thank the government that made it possible.

----------


## The Gold Standard

> And where do you suppose those billions of dollars of profits came from?
> 
> Card and transaction fees, mostly.


I'm guessing a good bit of it is their cut of the $223 billion of interest the U.S. government paid on their debt.

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## Brian4Liberty

> If you don't have a smart phone & bank account you don't deserve to buy stuff


"Your balance is zero."

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## LibForestPaul

> You hand over records of every transaction you make, knock yourself out. I deal almost exclusively in cash. I am giving Ronan a rare + rep, I $#@!ing hate the government tracking every stinking thing I do. It's why I'll never start another business.


I have a smartphone. My credit card gives me money to use it. Ehh. March like a good nazi, easier, and you get the girls.

----------


## idiom

> That's very shortsighted of you.   You're basically saying that it's fine with you if government knows every move you make and every single thing you purchase.
> 
> None for me, please.


LOL. The bank and the government are separate entities. If they share information everyone else shares information. People here want 'private roads' but imagine the road companies won't share your usage with the government.

Cash isn't a magic privacy blanket. Its actually worse because it gives you a false sense of security when really your whole life is tracked anyway.




> I honestly can't believe this topic is even being discussed. In a perfect world this system doens't work. Reminds me of the commerical a few years back where there was cute music and everyone was buying their coffee, newspaper, ect. and swiping their debit card. Then some fool comes up and wants to pay in cash. The efficient checkout grinds to a halt and all patrons look at the person paying with cash with laugh-ability.


Its actually what the ass holes paying in cash are like. They never have exact change and the world grinds to a halt.

They are like people who don't begin thinking about  what they want to order until they get to the register.




> So, you couldn't buy a used tire or exercise machine at yard sale without both people having $500 sail fawns, $100 plus a month "service", compatible software and card readers?
> 
> Yeah, sounds all kinds of simple and easy.


What is the card reader for? Or the software? but a $50 cell on $10 a month is plenty for most people I know. The ridiculousness of the American system is a strawman of an argument.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> LOL. The bank and the government are separate entities. If they share information everyone else shares information. People here want 'private roads' but imagine the road companies won't share your usage with the government.
> 
> Cash isn't a magic privacy blanket. Its actually worse because it gives you a false sense of security when really your whole life is tracked anyway.
> 
> Its actually what the ass holes paying in cash are like. They never have exact change and the world grinds to a halt.
> 
> They are like people who don't begin thinking about  what they want to order until they get to the register.
> 
> What is the card reader for? Or the software? but a $50 cell on $10 a month is plenty for most people I know. The ridiculousness of the American system is a strawman of an argument.


Yeah I get it, we're Idiot AmeriKans and you're an enlightened Kiwi.

Nothing I say will convince you of the downsides of doing away with cash, so, enjoy your brave new world.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> I honestly can't believe this topic is even being discussed. In a perfect world this system doens't work. Reminds me of the commerical a few years back where there was cute music and everyone was buying their coffee, newspaper, ect. and swiping their debit card. Then some fool comes up and wants to pay in cash. The efficient checkout grinds to a halt and all patrons look at the person paying with cash with laugh-ability. 
> 
> But lets not speculate, lets look at a real life scenario (no EOTWAWKI $#@!)... Hurricane Katrina, seems during the mass confussion and exodus out of the city credit machines failed on gas pumps, atm's, grocery stores, just about everywhere, even if there was electricity. Everything was cash if you had it. Your debit/CC were not of much use I guess. But I guess that stuff never happens. Snowstorm, tornado's, earthquakes, you know, fantasy things like that.
> 
> Side note.... I remember reading an article about Katrina and one piece of advise. Now am guessing most of us have a few hundred bucks or so laying around for such emergencies. The article went on to say your emergency money was useless in hundred dollar bills. It went on to suggest have it in one's and five's. Kinda funny trying to buy a bottle of water, coke, candy bar, for a few bucks and only having a hundred or twenty. Sorry dude, no change... *Point being keep some small bills around with your larger ones.*


This^^ The vast majority of my stash is in 20s and smaller. Lots of places won't accept bills bigger than 20s as it is.

----------


## idiom

> Yeah I get it, we're Idiot AmeriKans and you're an enlightened Kiwi.
> 
> Nothing I say will convince you of the downsides of doing away with cash, so, enjoy your brave new world.


Apparently giving up cash leads to government domination, yet I'm not the one getting my cities locked down by jack booted thugs.

Does having cash stop cops from shooting you like a dog in the street? Or your dog?

Ergo the premise of this thread is horse$#@!.

Its a huge red herring that allows activists to run in circles and waste energy instead of dealing with the actual threats to liberty in a concerted manner.

They had cash in concentration camps and in the gulags. Its a false $#@!ing saviour.

The idea that cash keeps you safe and that as long as you have it you are free _is the control_.

----------


## DamianTV

There are some major problems with a Cashless Society.

PayPal already refuses to do any sort of transaction when a sale of a firearm is made.  This is Corporate Subversion of the law.  The ability to monitor every transaction enables banks to dictate the behaviors of people without actually changing the law on the books.  Slippery slope.  Without cash, do you think you can buy pot and not draw attention to yourself?  But take it a step further, if its not just the Bank that gets to dictate your behaviors, but every busy-body out there.  Are you fat?  Yeah, $#@! you you fat $#@!, you are no longer allowed to purchase Bacon, or ANYTHING that said busy-bodies deem is "bad for you".

What happens when the POWER GOES OUT?

Natural disasters can cause major widespread damage and have a habit of knocking out power for extended periods of time.  Earthquakes, fires, floods, blizzards, you name it.  In the year 1861 we had a solar storm so massive that it crippled the electronics we barely had at the time.  It was called The Carrington Event.  I might be off on the year.  Mostly it was telegraphs that were affected, but as a planet, were were not so dependant on electronics at the time.  If we got hit by something similar to the Carrington Event today, it would be literally years before we could replace the damaged infrastructure and would most likely set us back to the stone age, for roughly a decade.

I'll agree that cash itself as we have it today is not so great.  We have Fiat Currency, and it doesnt really matter if it is on paper or digital, any fiat currency will lose its value over time.  I'll also acknowledge that both sides have benefits and risks.  Walking around with a hundred grand in cash is not what an average person would consider to be smart.  At the same time, putting your currency into a bank is just as much of a risk when, for some reason, the bank does not allow you to conduct transactions.  Asset forfeiture.  This has already happened in Greece, and very recently.  Depositors were not allowed to touch or spend their own money.  However, when you buy a house or a car, its usually safer to not have that quantity of currency in paper money.  If thieves knew that more people walked around with large quantities of currency on them, it is an incentive for those thieves to violently take your money.  Thats an argument the establishment will use against currency.  Putting all your money in a bank and having to pay a Transaction Fee AND be charged for the bank holding your money causes that money to evaporate into confiscation by the bank.  Both sides have ups and downs.

The real risk here is the Elimination of Choice.

When you have small quantities of currency in your pocket, you can buy what you want, where you want, and when you want.  It isnt subject to anyone elses interference.  The only two parties involved are the Buyer and the Seller.  If cash is eliminated, that transaction will be between the Buyer, the Seller, and the Bank.  Just like govt interference has ruined marriage, getting the third party out of the deal seems to be the best solution.  In todays marriage, it is a binding contract, not between a man and a woman, but between a man, a woman, and the state.  That is what the Rulers of society want.  They want EVERY transaction to be subject to their approval.

When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom.

There may very well soon come a time that a very large portion of your daily activities are deemed illegal.  The "victimless crime", such as modifying your car, having an "unauthorized mechanic" doing work on it, not purchasing DRM Coffee Pods for your Keurig Coffee Pot (that already exists), not purchasing HP Brand Printer Ink Replacement Cartridges when your printer runs out of ink, the list goes on and on, and the companies will claim to be the victims.  You need to give them your money, which will be held by the bank.  And its not just what you DO spend money on, but what you DONT as well.  Didnt pay your mandatory health insurance premium?  Subject to fine or imprisonment because youre now a criminal.  Late on a bill?  Debtors Prison.  

People like myself just arent making it in day to day life.  Im laid off, again, through no fault of my own, and finding a job is just as hard as it has been for the last several years.  This means that I simply do not have the income to be able to afford all the bills.  Blame the victim.  Just get a job.  The jobs that are available dont last very long and even if they did, dont pay well enough that people can afford basic necessities.  To blame the victim, it should be my fault, or anyone of the 102.4 million working age people of the 330 million people in the US that dont have good paying jobs.  Its their fault. They didnt get an education, despite jobs for the studied fields simply not existing.  Hope like hell you dont have a Felony on your record cuz you will NEVER get legitimate work, at least in the US.  If people did have decent paying jobs, maybe the catastrophic sequence of events that are unfolding wouldnt be quite as bad.  As it stands, poverty is manufactured as an excuse to separate the poor from what little they have left.  This causes people in poverty to suffer an even bleaker future because even more of what they have left will be confiscated by excuses of risk or by putting the needs of the businesses, banks and communities ahead of their basic need to eat.

It has become a Crime to be Poor.  It will be an even more severe crime to be Poor and not submitting to Total Digital Currency Surveillance.  End result as I see it: Societal Collapse and widespread death thru starvation.

$#@! a bunch of Digital Money.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Apparently giving up cash leads to government domination, yet I'm not the one getting my cities locked down by jack booted thugs.
> 
> Does having cash stop cops from shooting you like a dog in the street? Or your dog?
> 
> Ergo the premise of this thread is horse$#@!.
> 
> Its a huge red herring that allows activists to run in circles and waste energy instead of dealing with the actual threats to liberty in a concerted manner.
> 
> They had cash in concentration camps and in the gulags. Its a false $#@!ing saviour.
> ...


No, it is one of many issues that are *indicators* of lost freedom.

Having the *choice* to conduct transactions in cash, free from electronic tracking and government surveillance, will not a free country make, in and of itself.

But it helps.

----------


## Anti Federalist

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DamianTV again.





> There are some major problems with a Cashless Society.
> 
> PayPal already refuses to do any sort of transaction when a sale of a firearm is made.  This is Corporate Subversion of the law.  The ability to monitor every transaction enables banks to dictate the behaviors of people without actually changing the law on the books.  Slippery slope.  Without cash, do you think you can buy pot and not draw attention to yourself?  But take it a step further, if its not just the Bank that gets to dictate your behaviors, but every busy-body out there.  Are you fat?  Yeah, $#@! you you fat $#@!, you are no longer allowed to purchase Bacon, or ANYTHING that said busy-bodies deem is "bad for you".
> 
> What happens when the POWER GOES OUT?
> 
> Natural disasters can cause major widespread damage and have a habit of knocking out power for extended periods of time.  Earthquakes, fires, floods, blizzards, you name it.  In the year 1861 we had a solar storm so massive that it crippled the electronics we barely had at the time.  It was called The Carrington Event.  I might be off on the year.  Mostly it was telegraphs that were affected, but as a planet, were were not so dependant on electronics at the time.  If we got hit by something similar to the Carrington Event today, it would be literally years before we could replace the damaged infrastructure and would most likely set us back to the stone age, for roughly a decade.
> 
> I'll agree that cash itself as we have it today is not so great.  We have Fiat Currency, and it doesnt really matter if it is on paper or digital, any fiat currency will lose its value over time.  I'll also acknowledge that both sides have benefits and risks.  Walking around with a hundred grand in cash is not what an average person would consider to be smart.  At the same time, putting your currency into a bank is just as much of a risk when, for some reason, the bank does not allow you to conduct transactions.  Asset forfeiture.  This has already happened in Greece, and very recently.  Depositors were not allowed to touch or spend their own money.  However, when you buy a house or a car, its usually safer to not have that quantity of currency in paper money.  If thieves knew that more people walked around with large quantities of currency on them, it is an incentive for those thieves to violently take your money.  Thats an argument the establishment will use against currency.  Putting all your money in a bank and having to pay a Transaction Fee AND be charged for the bank holding your money causes that money to evaporate into confiscation by the bank.  Both sides have ups and downs.
> ...

----------


## Dianne

So the Federal Government, via Obama, has mandated everyone purchase health insurance that is 1/10th of the quality they once had, and more expensive.   Now, they plan to outlaw cash, force you to place your money with the banksters; then charge you a fee for the banksters to hold it?   Is it time for a complete overthrow of this rotten government, or what????     What can possibly be more tyrannical?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Just a bit I'd like to add...

Many service suppliers charge less if you pay cash. There's no processing fees to accept cash. I have a teacher who does not accept any cards-just cash/check-because she can't afford to accept cards. This also allows her to keep her tuition affordable. 

TANSTAAFL.

----------


## BV2

Idiom, you argue against your point when you break out your master card In the hole. "The camps!" You bleat, "they had cash! Didn't help them!" But it did, and you admit this: "they used cash in the camps." So there we have people living in a situation wherein liberty is severely restricted and, get ready for it, they are STILL able to use cash to excersize their autistic choice. Im sure such prisoners would have had an easy time participating in the black market with account to account electronic transfers. Gold, silver, tobacco, I like money I can touch.

----------


## idiom

> No, it is one of many issues that are *indicators* of lost freedom.
> 
> Having the *choice* to conduct transactions in cash, free from electronic tracking and government surveillance, will not a free country make, in and of itself.
> 
> But it helps.


Where has it ever indicated lost freedom?

Its a hypothetical.




> Idiom, you argue against your point when you break out your master card In the hole. "The camps!" You bleat, "they had cash! Didn't help them!" But it did, and you admit this: "they used cash in the camps." So there we have people living in a situation wherein liberty is severely restricted and, get ready for it, they are STILL able to use cash to excersize their autistic choice. Im sure such prisoners would have had an easy time participating in the black market with account to account electronic transfers. Gold, silver, tobacco, I like money I can touch.


Barter is always something to which one can revert. The "Mark of the Beast" isn't a real thing. Even in prophecy it didn't "exist for decades everywhere except America".

The point is there is hysterical fear of the loss of cash, when countries that hardly use it have far more freedom than citizens of the United States.

Empirically its contra-indicator of freedom. The least free places use cash. Probably because loss of freedom is tied to loss of economic power, or because the need to move money covertly is so high.

The easiest way to get citizens to give up cash is to give them liberty. People who don't fear their government largely don't need cash.

----------


## idiom

> Just a bit I'd like to add...
> 
> Many service suppliers charge less if you pay cash. There's no processing fees to accept cash. I have a teacher who does not accept any cards-just cash/check-because she can't afford to accept cards. This also allows her to keep her tuition affordable. 
> 
> TANSTAAFL.


It takes more physical effort to handle cash. Non-cash transactions have lower actual overhead, which is why non-American countries have no fees for digital. Its cheaper and safer for banks and stores to work digitally.

Credit card companies have fees yes, but who the $#@! uses those?

"TANSTAAFL" is bad economics in this case. It is failing to account for time handling cash and theft and loss.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Where has it ever indicated lost freedom?
> 
> Its a hypothetical.


You said it yourself, in *this* thread:




> Not having a normal digital life is more of a red flag than having one.


So, you are admitting that using the cashless control grid is part of a "normal digital life".

So therefore my digital transactions *are* under surveillance.

*That* equals a loss of freedom.

God damn it, I was dealing with a Pollyanna instructor today who dismisses many of the same things.

Why do you people lack the imagination and the ability to see how badly this will be abused?

Why do I have to $#@!ing go through life saying "I told you $#@!ing so"??!!

Jesus *Christ* Almighty...<bangs head>

----------


## Anti Federalist

> See those are both global currencies. I ain't going near them.


Uh huh, and I bet you'd be furious if you were *forced* to use them...

----------


## Zippyjuan

So money (cash) is slavery.  Not having cash is also slavery.

----------


## idiom

> You said it yourself, in *this* thread:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are admitting that using the cashless control grid is part of a "normal digital life".
> 
> So therefore my digital transactions *are* under surveillance.
> 
> *That* equals a loss of freedom.
> ...


Every thing is under surveillance, but by your neighbours more than the government.

Without government there is no right to privacy at all. In fact the only right to privacy acknowledged at all around these parts is a right to privacy from the government.

Your neighbours are apparently allowed to track you and all your actions and sell that data to anyone they like, including reporting on your cash sales if they can make a buck off it. They can sell that information to governments too.

Living entirely off grid and never interacting with the outside world is one option, but here you are on the internet and on a political forum no less. So I can assume you aren't going with that option.

The problem is that you live in fear of leaving a paper trail, and reasonably so.

Liberty from my point of view isn't about having the ability to not leave a paper trail, that will always be possible no matter what the government wants. For me, I want to be able to leave a paper trail and not live in fear of a government having access to it to use against me.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Every thing is under surveillance, but by your neighbours more than the government.
> *
> Without government there is no right to privacy at all*. In fact the only right to privacy acknowledged at all around these parts is a right to privacy from the government.
> 
> Your neighbours are apparently allowed to track you and all your actions and sell that data to anyone they like, including reporting on your cash sales if they can make a buck off it. They can sell that information to governments too.
> 
> Living entirely off grid and never interacting with the outside world is one option, but here you are on the internet and on a political forum no less. So I can assume you aren't going with that option.
> 
> The problem is that you live in fear of leaving a paper trail, and reasonably so.
> ...


There's no right to privacy with the regime, either. Outside of theoretical requirements for warrants to do certain things, the high courts have always ruled that there is no such right. Privacy is a responsibility if one wants it. Cash is one way to go about it.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> You said it yourself, in *this* thread:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are admitting that using the cashless control grid is part of a "normal digital life".
> 
> So therefore my digital transactions *are* under surveillance.
> 
> *That* equals a loss of freedom.
> ...





> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.


IDK, probably a generational thing. I'm not even that old and I'm firmly of the same opinion as you on this.

----------


## LibForestPaul

> Every thing is under surveillance, but by your neighbours more than the government.
> 
> Without government there is no right to privacy at all. In fact the only right to privacy acknowledged at all around these parts is a right to privacy from the government.
> 
> Your neighbours are apparently allowed to track you and all your actions and sell that data to anyone they like, including reporting on your cash sales if they can make a buck off it. They can sell that information to governments too.
> 
> Living entirely off grid and never interacting with the outside world is one option, but here you are on the internet and on a political forum no less. So I can assume you aren't going with that option.
> 
> The problem is that you live in fear of leaving a paper trail, and reasonably so.
> ...


If you voluntarily want to use a method that can be easily tracked and used against you later, fine. If someone else does not, fine. As long as the voluntarism and non-aggression principal is upheld. If a gun is pointed at my head forcing me not to use cash, and you believe this is right and just, I can not help you open your eyes.

----------


## BV2

> Barter is always something to which one can revert. The "Mark of the  Beast" isn't a real thing. Even in prophecy it didn't "exist for decades  everywhere except America".


Barter?  This is another topic, yes?  We are discussing indirect exchange, yes?  Intra-prison economies are barter heavy, but any prisoner that wants to obtain something OUTSIDE the prison better have folding money.




> The point is there is hysterical fear of the loss of cash, when  countries that hardly use it have far more freedom than citizens of the  United States.


What those countries have, if you care to name them, is a _less_ aggressive government.  Have they more freedom?  Perhaps, so far as "more freedom" is allowed them by their masters.  What they certainly have less of is privacy.




> Empirically its contra-indicator of freedom. The least free places use  cash. Probably because loss of freedom is tied to loss of economic  power, or because the need to move money covertly is so high.


Let's assume this is true (and an assumption it remains).  Then yes, people in less free places would use/desire/need cash because discretion in such places is indispensable.  This being true just puts your cart before your horse.  Do you suggest cash be outlawed to increase freedom, since (still running your assumption) freer places don't use cash?  Outlaw cash, and liberty will follow?  If we drop what is considered the poverty line to zero, there will be no one left in poverty...hooray.

Furthermore, you admit the indispensable nature of cash in unfree places (everywhere) where discretion is the difference between a larger cage and a significantly smaller one.




> The easiest way to get citizens to give up cash is to give them liberty.  People who don't fear their government largely don't need cash.


Give them liberty? You sound like a politician, empowered to, and responsible for, doling out the rights.  People who don't fear their government are ignorant-their preferred method/medium of exchange is irrelevant.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> It takes more physical effort to handle cash. Non-cash transactions have lower actual overhead, which is why non-American countries have no fees for digital. *Its cheaper and safer for banks and stores to work digitally*.


Dude, even the FedGov's securest databases can and have been hacked. At this point in history, 1's and 0's are in no way safer than cash.





> Credit card companies have fees yes, but who the $#@! uses those?


almost all brick n' mortar stores, as it's been explained to me.





> "TANSTAAFL" is bad economics in this case. It is failing to account for time handling cash and theft and loss.


Depends on what you subjectively value. As mentioned before, the inherent risk of doing business digitally is as great-if not moreso-than dealing in cash. Hackers can't use their computers to get into my safe and drain my savings or start a line of credit at my expense. They're stuck behind their computers in their mothers' basements.

----------


## Anti Federalist

From the comments at Eric Peters' Autos:


BY:Jason Flinders

February 18, 2016 at 12:38 am

Reasons that “they” (the gunvermin) want to eliminate cash include:

1. Surveillance. Track every transaction. If you buy a stick of chewing gum they want to know about it, catalog it, analyze it.

2. Keep everyone toiling on the plantation for massah. Currently it is still possible to work for cash in the underground economy and keep whatever you manage to earn away from them. (At least from their direct grabbing.) Do away with cash and there is not even the theoretical possibility of escape.

Cash is freedom and privacy. THEY DON’T WANT THAT. What they want is total control.

What makes it worse is that people are now accepting the cashless society voluntarily on the basis of “convenience.” (I want to spew every time I hear some prole say “I have nothing to hide!”)

More and more when I pay cash people look at me like I’m from another planet. I’ve even run into “cashiers” who don’t know how to handle a cash transaction.

This is not going to end well.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Credit card companies have fees yes, but who the $#@! uses those?


I think you don't understand.

If you have an electronic account of any kind, there is fee charged to somebody for each transaction.

----------


## TheTexan

> So money (cash) is slavery.  Not having cash is also slavery.


Yes, but work will set you free.

----------


## Danke

> Yes, but work will set you free.


Das ist richtig.
Arbeit macht frei!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Das ist richtig.
> Arbeit macht frei!


Молодец!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Moar on the War On Cash from LRC toady:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/02/...ateral-damage/
The war on cash heated up this week when a former Obama economic adviser/ex-Treasury secretary floated the idea of eliminating the $100 bill.
Lawrence Summers called for death to the Benjamins in a post on his Washington Post blog titled _It’s Time to Kill the $100 Bill_. The post announced the release of a paper by Harvard’s Mossavar Rahmani Center for Business and Government senior Fellow Peter Sands arguing that governments should stop issuing high-denomination currency such as 500 euro notes and $100 bills. The paper even proposed withdrawing such currency them from circulation.
Cash warriors always publicly center their arguments on the need to limit cash as a way to fight drug crime, terrorism, and tax fraud. This was exactly how Summers framed the argument in his blog post:
*Sands’ extensive analysis is totally convincing on the linkage between high denomination notes and crime. He is surely right that illicit activities are facilitated when a million dollars weighs 2.2 pounds as with the 500 euro note rather than more than 50 pounds as would be the case if the $20 bill was the high denomination note. And he is equally correct in arguing that technology is obviating whatever need there may ever have been for high denomination notes in legal commerce…I’d guess the idea of removing existing notes is a step too far. But a moratorium on printing new high denomination notes would make the world a better place.”*As the _Wall Street Journal_ points out, this isn’t a new idea. In 1986, New York Mayor Edward Koch urged President Reagan to eliminate the $100 bill as a way of hindering drug traffickers.
As you can see, when pundits talk about the war on cash, they almost always focus on crime prevention. But government policy-makers and central bankers have other reasons for wanting to eliminate currency. It seems highly unlikely that it’s just a coincidence all of this talk about abolishing the $100 bill is happening at the same time central bankers are lurching into the realm of negative interest rates.
Japan recently took its rates into negative territory. Just weeks later, the Swedish central bank dropped its rate to negative 0.5%. And as we reported recently, negative rates could be right around the corner in the US as well.
When banks implement negative rates, they literally charge customers to hold their money. You’re not likely to save money in the bank if it’s costing you to do so. Central planners believe this will motivate you to spend, thus stimulating the economy. But in order for this scheme to work, it has to be impossible for you to simply stuff currency under your mattress. That’s what the war on cash is really all about. After parroting the usual reasoning relating to crime prevention, the Wall Street Journal actually revealed the truth about the war on cash:
*Many economists believe the ability of central banks to implement negative-interest-rate policies is hampered by the ability to hold cash. Even in places like Switzerland, where rates have gone negative on government bonds, banks don’t pass on negative rates to retail deposits for fear depositors will withdraw their cash. That limits the effectiveness of lowering rates below zero. Yet rates can go somewhat negative because holding and safeguarding large amounts of currency is an expensive undertaking. The more expensive it is to hold cash, the further negative rates can go and the easier negative rates are to pass on to corporations and consumers. Eliminating high-value currency would increase the cost and difficulty of hoarding cash.”*The simple fact is government officials and central bankers yearn for the abolition of cash because it means more control over you.
So, what can you do keep from becoming a victim in the war on cash?
Buy gold.
Gold historically serves as an excellent way to store and preserve wealth, especially in times of economic turmoil. When you see negative rates, it’s a sure sign the economy is in a downward spiral, but they are a positive for gold. When you invest in precious metals, you don’t have to worry about trying to stuff bundles of $1 bills under your mattress or in your microwave in order to save money.
When you see ideas like eliminating the $100 bill floated, it’s easy to write them off as nothing more than far-fetched policy discussions. But it wasn’t long ago negative interest rates were considered an “impossibility.” Today’s crazy ideas often become tomorrow’s reality.

----------


## Danke

> Молодец!


ありがとう

----------


## Origanalist

> Every thing is under surveillance, but by your neighbours more than the government.
> 
> Without government there is no right to privacy at all. In fact the only right to privacy acknowledged at all around these parts is a right to privacy from the government.
> 
> Your neighbours are apparently allowed to track you and all your actions and sell that data to anyone they like, including reporting on your cash sales if they can make a buck off it. They can sell that information to governments too.
> 
> Living entirely off grid and never interacting with the outside world is one option, but here you are on the internet and on a political forum no less. So I can assume you aren't going with that option.
> 
> The problem is that you live in fear of leaving a paper trail, and reasonably so.
> ...


Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear. Amirite?

----------


## osan

> I suggest that you start talking to your friends and neighbors about this now, before it’s too late. Don’t let them comply without a fight.


To what end?  And what kind of a fight, pray tell, does this author expect people to undertake?

The article was good, but this parting shot is simply beneath ridicule.

Nobody is going to fight. Some will bitch, and do so in vain.  The rest will bend over and take it where it was never meant to go.

Put it this way, removal of cash would be all the pretext for civil war that any man would ever need.  Even so, I doubt there are enough Americans with the guts to lay it all on the line to stave off a future so miserable that they could not possibly comprehend the depths of it until after they were hip-deep and it is too late to recover.

It will either happen or it will not.  The rest will almost certainly entail the people doing as they are told.  This has become the human condition.

----------


## wmmonk

> Technology handles it just fine here.
> 
> America, the dark ages of actual technology implementation.


You're not comparing apples to apples. How many transactions are done daily in New Zealand, versus how many in the U.S.? There are more in NYC each day probably, than in all of New Zealand.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> ありがとう


Пожалуйста.  ~hugs~

----------


## Ronin Truth

> To what end? And what kind of a fight, pray tell, does this author expect people to undertake?
> 
> The article was good, but this parting shot is simply beneath ridicule.
> 
> Nobody is going to fight. Some will bitch, and do so in vain. The rest will bend over and take it where it was never meant to go.
> 
> Put it this way, removal of cash would be all the pretext for civil war that any man would ever need. Even so, I doubt there are enough Americans with the guts to lay it all on the line to stave off a future so miserable that they could not possibly comprehend the depths of it until after they were hip-deep and it is too late to recover.
> 
> It will either happen or it will not. The rest will almost certainly entail the people doing as they are told. This has become the human condition.


*"A nation of sheep eventually begets a government of wolves."*

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## euphemia

Except for online payments, I use cash.  It's almost like a hobby.

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## Anti Federalist

I know some lack the imagination to see where this is going, our kiwi friend is in the enviable position of not living in a fascist surveillance state.

But *this* is where it is going:



*Should welfare recipients be banned from buying steak and lobster?* 

A New York lawmaker introduced a bill that would restrict food stamp recipients from purchasing 'luxury' and unhealthy products using public benefits. 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Upd...ak-and-lobster


Now, how do you suppose they are going to enforce such a thing?

*By restricting the purchase through the electronic payment system that SNAP uses, basically a refillable debit card.*

This will be for everybody in the future, as the databases that track everything about you become more interconnected.

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## wmmonk

> I know some lack the imagination to see where this is going, our kiwi friend is in the enviable position of not living in a fascist surveillance state.
> 
> But *this* is where it is going:
> 
> 
> 
> *Should welfare recipients be banned from buying steak and lobster?* 
> 
> A New York lawmaker introduced a bill that would restrict food stamp recipients from purchasing 'luxury' and unhealthy products using public benefits. 
> ...


I think restricting what welfare recipients can and can't buy has been done for a while now?
I just don't think that we will go away from cash quickly, or overnight, in the U.S.

I guess stranger things have happened, but I deal with the general public daily and cash is still used probably 50% of the time, if not more.

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## EBounding

If anyone experienced the big Northeast blackout over a decade ago, you'll understand the importance of cash.

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## AZJoe

> The war on cash  governments everywhere are cracking down on commerce that isnt monitored or controlled. the results of this war reveal its true purpose: tracking citizens and their taxable income. The war on cash is actually a war on commerce, or rather, on any commerce that cant be monitored and controlled by the government.


 https://mises.org/blog/war-cash-ancient

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## Ronin Truth

*Revelation 13:17   King James Version (KJV)*

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...17&version=KJV

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## timosman

> *Revelation 13:17   King James Version (KJV)*
> 
> 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
> 
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...17&version=KJV


18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...18&version=KJV

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## MelissaWV

I've seen an uptick in cash only businesses here.

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## timosman

> I've seen an uptick in cash only businesses here.


People maxing out their CCs?

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## MelissaWV

> People maxing out their CCs?


No, businesses (mostly restaurants) that only accept cash as payment.  It's going well for them.

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## BV2

Passports make us serfs. The pale just got bigger for awhile and we forgot.

Serfsup.

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## Ronin Truth

> Passports make us serfs. The pale just got bigger for awhile and we forgot.
> 
> Serfsup.


 They also allow us to travel to the other serf states of the world.

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## AZJoe

Banning Cash is Banning Freedom.
It is about power and control over you.
When the elite can track every transaction you make. 
When the elite can cutoff your ability to trade or conduct business at their direction, they make a compliant and subservient populace.

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## BV2

> They also allow us to travel to the other serf states of the world.


As long as you are just passing through?  Want to work? Back to the pale with you, pleb.  And you know it.

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## kfarnan

They won't succeed.

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## Lucille

bump

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## kfarnan

Cash will go away eventually, along with fiat currency.

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## Schifference

What they could do is a complete total makeover of the Bill. Change its colors drastically and set a date and after said date declare all old currency wortheless.

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## AZJoe

It is being advocated openly now :

Rogoff likes the power that eliminating bills larger than $10 would give the government over the economy, including manipulating people's spending and saving habits. "*Take cash away, however, or make the cost of hoarding high enough, and central banks would be free to drive rates as deep into negative territory as they needed* in a severe recession." 

Peter Bofinger of the German Council of Economic Experts agrees. "Stand up for the abolition of cash, *since coins and bills* are obsolete and*only reduce the influence of central banks*," he proposed last year.

Citigroup chief economist Willem Buiter  *abolishing cash is a necessary step for giving governments the economic power they need* to monitor and control economic activity. 

In a world without [cash], "You'd have no choice but to conform to the intermediaries' automated bureaucracy, giving them a lot of power, and a lot of data about the microtexture of your economic life,"  "To eliminate cash is to say to hell with financial privacy,"  "An end to cash would mean that every financial transaction is exposed to a third party." Cash is "printed freedom,"

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