# Think Tank > History >  Adolf Hitler - Untold Story

## willwash

Hitler, the Nazis, and WWII from a contemporary German perspective.  I give you a fair warning: this documentary is neither for the PC-oriented nor the faint of heart.  I confess I've only seen the first two hours (it's 6.5 hours long!).  However, although it does appear somewhat sympathetic to the Nazis, I think the world needs more documentaries like this.  

Too often Hitler and the Nazis are caricaturized into blithering idiot cartoon character versions of their real selves, even in serious attempts at history.  While that makes for a great Quentin Tarantino movie (Django unchained, anyone?), it makes it easy to forget that in the 1920s Hitler and the Germans had many legitimate grievances against the Western Allies and the international banking system which was oppressing them (causing anger which was misplaced towards Jews), and that Hitler
 1) was in fact not a maniac (until perhaps late 1944)
 2) won his mandate democratically by convincing a population of some of the smartest, highest-educated, and most stereotypically rational people in the world of his worldview, and
 3) many of his (especially early) political and military moves were arguably morally justified.

If you truly love liberty, this documentary is an excellent glimpse into the mind of those who might take it away.

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## heavenlyboy34

@ ~12:00-This is a rather common misunderstanding.  Hitler's "issue" at that time was what he called "Judeo-Bolshevism", not Jews generally. ETA: I see that @ 12:30 the directors correctly point out the very real threat of communist takeover of Germany (which was a big motivator for Adolph).  So, I suppose the error is effectively corrected.  That's all.  Thanks for sharing.

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## otherone

> Too often Hitler and the Nazis are caricaturized into blithering idiot cartoon character versions of their real selves, even in serious attempts at history.  While that makes for a great Quentin Tarantino movie (Django unchained, anyone?), it makes it easy to forget that in the 1920s Hitler and the Germans had many legitimate grievances against the Western Allies and the international banking system which was oppressing them (causing anger which was misplaced towards Jews), and that Hitler
>  1) was in fact not a maniac (until perhaps late 1944)


people also don't know that Hitler was quite the dancer as well...

A little jig:



Here he is doing "Der Fuhrer":



...followed by some evocative "Mein Kampfing":




Adolph was also an accomplished scrapper:



...and his mother was an artist's model:

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## Ronin Truth

*"The first casualty of war is Truth."*

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## heavenlyboy34

> *"The first casualty of war is Truth."*


Damn straight.   IDR who said that, but it's true of every war evarr.

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## phill4paul

Hitler get's a lot of bad press. It's rare that anyone would look at what his accomplishments were before going full retard. I'll check this out when I get a chance. The people and the economy were hurting before he came to power. He did manage to change that for a time. How he changed this and how the people felt and realized this change is worthy of exploration. Not a simple dismissal that the Germans were Jew killers. End of story. His changes ignited the admiration from many in his own country and those in many others. I don't think that one can challenge that he changed the state of affairs for the German "everyman" during his ascendance.
TBC: I'm not a Nazi nor a skin head. I just enjoy learning about history. True history, not the sterilized history that conquerors fabricate.

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## otherone

> I don't think that one can challenge that he changed the state of affairs for the German "everyman" during his ascendance.


He exploited his countrymen for his own ambition.

_The German Red Cross in 2005 put the total combined German military and civilian war dead at 7,375,800, including ethnic Germans outside of Germany and Austrians. This figure includes 4.3 million military dead and missing, 500,000 killed by strategic bombing, 300,000 victims of Nazi political, racial and religious persecution, 2,251,500 civilian dead in expulsions and 24,300 Austrian civilians. [1]In addition 200,000 Germans were murdered in the Nazi euthanasia program.[2]
_
-wiki

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## phill4paul

> He exploited his countrymen for his own ambition.
> 
> _The German Red Cross in 2005 put the total combined German military and civilian war dead at 7,375,800, including ethnic Germans outside of Germany and Austrians. This figure includes 4.3 million military dead and missing, 500,000 killed by strategic bombing, 300,000 victims of Nazi political, racial and religious persecution, 2,251,500 civilian dead in expulsions and 24,300 Austrian civilians. [1]In addition 200,000 Germans were murdered in the Nazi euthanasia program.[2]
> _
> -wiki


  I think _ascendance_ might have been a key word there. Type it into google and you'll get the holocaust. But the truth is much different. His ascendancy turned the country into an industrial power house. Pre-holocaust. He united a defeated nation and began reforms that were positive with regard to their _ascendancy_ as a  conquered post-war economy. So post all the death camp photos you want. It's an easy way to dismiss that a conquered people were able to pull themselves up to a major power that threatened European power structure. It never should have went in that direction. But the fact that there _were_ changes under his administration that pulled the country and the pride of the citizens up with it can't be dismissed with photos of the holocaust.

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## otherone

> I think _ascendance_ might have been a key word there. Type it into google and you'll get the holocaust. But the truth is much different. His ascendancy turned the country into an industrial power house. Pre-holocaust. He united a defeated nation and began reforms that were positive with regard to their _ascendancy_ as a  conquered post-war economy. So post all the death camp photos you want. It's an easy way to dismiss that a conquered people were able to pull themselves up to a major power that threatened European power structure. It never should have went in that direction. But the fact that there _were_ changes under his administration that pulled the country and the pride of the citizens up with it can't be dismissed with photos of the holocaust.


Not holocaust...a Dresden fire-bombing photo...piles of German "everymen".
The "ascendency" was financed with the plunder of murdered and/or imprisoned citizens.  

"thars GOLD in them thar teeth....YEEHAW"

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## phill4paul

> Not holocaust...a Dresden fire-bombing photo...piles of German "everymen".
> The "ascendency" was financed with the plunder of murdered and/or imprisoned citizens.  
> 
> "thars GOLD in them thar teeth....YEEHAW"


  Was it? I dunno. So please help me here. Germany was virtually, economically, destroyed after WWI. After the treaty of Versailles, and the subsequent destruction of the economy by the Weimar Republic, Germany was in a great depression. From my understanding the pogram did not start until well after the reforms that led to ascendancy. Please link me to anything that is not revisionist regarding this.

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## fr33

Society is what creates these monsters. Many people could grow up to be a Hitler if the circumstances work out just right.

A decade or 2 before the 3rd reich nobody could have predicted what would happen. The same is true today about the whatever 4th reich that might rear it's ugly head.

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## jjdoyle

Does the video posted cover the Hitler didn't commit suicide theory, and escaped to Argentina instead?

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## phill4paul

> Society is what creates these monsters. Many people could grow up to be a Hitler if the circumstances work out just right.


  I for one am an, albeit non-conforming, member of society. I would never govern on the death of a perceived enemy of the state. But your point is well taken. _Many_ would.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story NEVER Told




Here's a condensed version:

Adolf Hitler - warmongering militarist who created his own military industrial complex and wrecked havoc, destruction and death on the world. 

Lesson - don't follow warmongers or give them power.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hitler get's a lot of bad press. It's rare that anyone would look at what his accomplishments were before going full retard. I'll check this out when I get a chance. The people and the economy were hurting before he came to power. He did manage to change that for a time. How he changed this and how the people felt and realized this change is worthy of exploration. Not a simple dismissal that the Germans were Jew killers. End of story. His changes ignited the admiration from many in his own country and those in many others. I don't think that one can challenge that he changed the state of affairs for the German "everyman" during his ascendance.
> TBC: I'm not a Nazi nor a skin head. I just enjoy learning about history. True history, not the sterilized history that conquerors fabricate.


This^^  Unfortunately, it's difficult to talk about that seriously in the US and much of Europe because Winner's History won the propaganda war.

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## phill4paul

> Here's a condensed version:
> 
> Adolf Hitler - warmongering militarist who created his own military industrial complex and wrecked havoc, destruction and death on the world. 
> 
> Lesson - don't follow warmongers or give them power.
> 
> "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."


  So.... JEWS!!!!!

  Nice summation. I think I've heard that version. Over and over again.

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## Ronin Truth

> Society is what creates these monsters. Many people could grow up to be a Hitler if the circumstances work out just right.
> 
> A decade or 2 before the 3rd reich nobody could have predicted what would happen. The same is true today about the whatever 4th reich that might rear it's ugly head.


 I believe the words you are looking for are "paranoid sociopathic megalomaniac".  

https://therearenosunglasses.files.w...-jim-marrs.pdf

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## anaconda

The movie starts with an instrumental version of the song Unchained Melody by The Righteous Brothers.

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## Demigod

> Hitler, the Nazis, and WWII from a contemporary German perspective.  I give you a fair warning: this documentary is neither for the PC-oriented nor the faint of heart.  I confess I've only seen the first two hours (it's 6.5 hours long!).  However, although it does appear somewhat sympathetic to the Nazis, I think the world needs more documentaries like this.  
> 
> Too often Hitler and the Nazis are caricaturized into blithering idiot cartoon character versions of their real selves, even in serious attempts at history.  While that makes for a great Quentin Tarantino movie (Django unchained, anyone?), it makes it easy to forget that in the 1920s Hitler and the Germans had many legitimate grievances against the Western Allies and the international banking system which was oppressing them (causing anger which was misplaced towards Jews), and that Hitler
>  1) was in fact not a maniac (until perhaps late 1944)
>  2)* won his mandate democratically by convincing a population of some of the smartest, highest-educated, and most stereotypically rational people in the world of his worldview, and*
>  3) many of his (especially early) political and military moves were arguably morally justified.
> 
> If you truly love liberty, this documentary is an excellent glimpse into the mind of those who might take it away.


No he did not ,the nazis never  got above 30% of the vote.Hitler came to power because the elected chancellor had to retire and he was afraid that the communist would take over if there were new elections so he made Hitler the new chancellor .

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## FloralScent

> I think _ascendance_ might have been a key word there. Type it into google and you'll get the holocaust. But the truth is much different. His ascendancy turned the country into an industrial power house. Pre-holocaust. He united a defeated nation and began reforms that were positive with regard to their _ascendancy_ as a  conquered post-war economy. So post all the death camp photos you want. It's an easy way to dismiss that a conquered people were able to pull themselves up to a major power that threatened European power structure. It never should have went in that direction. But the fact that there _were_ changes under his administration that pulled the country and the pride of the citizens up with it can't be dismissed with photos of the holocaust.


That's a picture of victims of the firebombing of Dresden.  The Americans and British did that, which is why I think The Holocaust™ is so greatly exaggerated;it's an attempt to justify our crimes.

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## willwash

Respectful inquiry here, why was the thread title changed?  The original thread title is simply the actual title of the documentary being shared, it's not something I came up with on my own to glorify Hitler.

The whole point of sharing it is to get away from the unrealistic depictions of Hitler and understand how easy it is to fall under someone like this's sway.

It's a lot like Paradise Lost.  It's written in a way that you're kind of supposed to take Satan's side at least a little bit. It's really easy to resist succumbing to a patently evil-on-its-face threat...one that catches your sympathy and exposes actual flaws in the "good" side is much more insidious.  "Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven" sums this up nicely.

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## willwash

> Here's a condensed version:
> 
> Adolf Hitler - warmongering militarist who created his own military industrial complex and wrecked havoc, destruction and death on the world. 
> 
> Lesson - don't follow warmongers or give them power.
> 
> "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."


The same could be said of Winston Churchill.  His blind insistence on fighting a war with a Germany who had no interest in fighting Britain ultimately cost Britain her empire and indirectly led to the Holocaust (prior to Germany starting to lose the war, the plan was only to expel the Jews, not kill them).

The Allied insistence on unconditional surrender instead of a negotiated peace also made the whole war much, much worse.

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## Ronin Truth

> *"America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War [I]. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these 'isms' wouldn't today be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government - and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives." -- Winston Churchill, 1936 interview
> *


//

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## Brian4Liberty

> So.... JEWS!!!!!
> 
>   Nice summation. I think I've heard that version. Over and over again.


Not sure I follow. I did not focus on one specific group who suffered during the war.

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## Brian4Liberty

> The same could be said of Winston Churchill.  His blind insistence on fighting a war with a Germany ... The Allied insistence on unconditional surrender instead of a negotiated peace also made the whole war much, much worse.


There are certainly a ton of historical details that are overlooked or buried (often intentionally) in the past. No doubt about that.

Hilter loved war and the military, and built a massive war machine in short order. Hard to believe that he didn't plan on using it. He was also very fond of pre-emptive war. Was it Hitler's MIC that created all of those jobs? That's a precedent that doesn't need repeating. The end result is almost inevitable.

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## Deborah K

> Respectful inquiry here, why was the thread title changed?  The original thread title is simply the actual title of the documentary being shared, it's not something I came up with on my own to glorify Hitler.
> 
> The whole point of sharing it is to get away from the unrealistic depictions of Hitler and understand how easy it is to fall under someone like this's sway.
> 
> It's a lot like Paradise Lost.  It's written in a way that you're kind of supposed to take Satan's side at least a little bit. It's really easy to resist succumbing to a patently evil-on-its-face threat...one that catches your sympathy and exposes actual flaws in the "good" side is much more insidious.  "Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven" sums this up nicely.


I watched the whole documentary yesterday and today.  It is a glorification of Hitler and the Nazis.  It is a Holocaust denier film.  No where in the film does it discuss the dangers of "falling under someone like this's sway".  In the credits they acknowledge the help of Stormfront in making the film.  It also features a clip from David Duke.  And of course, they blame the Jews for the world's ills - but they're subtle and clever about it.

It was a deeply disturbing film, graphic, and revisionist.  They mixed truth with fabrication in an effort to appear credible. They are guilty of what they accuse others of doing, that is, covering up the truth.  And they make incredible claims about how much better the world would be had the Nazis won - even listing what they consider social ills as not existing at all had the Nazis won.

The only redeeming value this film has, is in its exposure of the evil that is within every government there ever was, is, and ever will be, and that central banking is ruining the world.   The film accurately points out the hypocrisy of the U.S. government's treatment of Native Indians, Blacks, etc. while pointing fingers at Germany's treatment of Jews.  It also shines a very bright light on our WWII ally: Stalin aka 'Uncle Joe', and his atrocities.  It got me to thinking that our alliance with the Soviet Union during WWII might explain the communist infiltration we've had ever since then. I had always assumed it was Marxist influence, and labor unions that caused it.  Hitler, it seems, was a great hater of communism.  I wish FDR was as great a hater of it. (He's the one who nicknamed Stalin 'Uncle Joe'.) He apparently had communists in his cabinet.  The more I read and hear about FDR, the more I can't stand him. 

I've never researched the Holocaust denier position, and I wasn't expecting that when I watched this film.  I intend to do some verification on some of the claims, and to take some time to absorb it all.  Right now, I'm coming away from it feeling very disillusioned about the nature of man.

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## Henry Rogue

I don't know the history behind Hitler's economic policies, but i don't think i will be off the mark in assuming that it wasn't based in Free Market principles. My guess is Germany's boom was a bubble and would eventually pop, war or no war.

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## Deborah K

> I don't know the history behind Hitler's economic policies, but i don't think i will be off the mark in assuming that it wasn't based in Free Market principles. My guess is Germany's boom was a bubble and would eventually pop, war or no war.


Agreed.  It seems it was propped up by the building of infrastructure.  According to the film, he disconnected from the central banking system, however.

Edit: and of course, they were national socialists.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I watched the whole documentary yesterday and today.  It is a glorification of Hitler and the Nazis.  It is a Holocaust denier film.  No where in the film does it discuss the dangers of "falling under someone like this's sway".  In the credits they acknowledge the help of Stormfront in making the film.  It also features a clip from David Duke.  And of course, they blame the Jews for the world's ills - but they're subtle and clever about it.
> 
> It was a deeply disturbing film, graphic, and revisionist.  They mixed truth with fabrication in an effort to appear credible. They are guilty of what they accuse others of doing, that is, covering up the truth.  And they make incredible claims about how much better the world would be had the Nazis won - even listing what they consider social ills as not existing at all had the Nazis won.
> 
> The only redeeming value this film has, is in its exposure of the evil that is within every government there ever was, is, and ever will be, and that central banking is ruining the world.   The film accurately points out the hypocrisy of the U.S. government's treatment of Native Indians, Blacks, etc. while pointing fingers at Germany's treatment of Jews.  It also shines a very bright light on our WWII ally: Stalin aka 'Uncle Joe', and his atrocities.  It got me to thinking that our alliance with the Soviet Union during WWII might explain the communist infiltration we've had ever since then. I had always assumed it was Marxist influence, and labor unions that caused it.  Hitler, it seems, was a great hater of communism.  I wish FDR was as great a hater of it. (He's the one who nicknamed Stalin 'Uncle Joe'.) He apparently had communists in his cabinet.  The more I read and hear about FDR, the more I can't stand him. 
> 
> I've never researched the Holocaust denier position, and I wasn't expecting that when I watched this film.  I intend to do some verification on some of the claims, and to take some time to absorb it all.  Right now, I'm coming away from it feeling very disillusioned about the nature of man.





> Respectful inquiry here, why was the thread title changed?  The original thread title is simply the actual title of the documentary being shared, it's not something I came up with on my own to glorify Hitler.


While I did not choose the new title, I will point out that titles here on this forum are subject to the control and discretion of the poster, and of the forum. The Youtube title sounds like it glorifies Hitler, but there is no reason that title needs to be used here.

As far as it's content, Deborah watched and confirmed that it is a "pro-Hilter" take on WWII.

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## willwash

> While I did not choose the new title, I will point out that titles here on this forum are subject to the control and discretion of the poster, and of the forum. The Youtube title sounds like it glorifies Hitler, but there is no reason that title needs to be used here.
> 
> As far as it's content, Deborah watched and confirmed that it is a "pro-Hilter" take on WWII.


I've still only seen about the first 2 hours.  Deborah watching it twice in 2 days is some serious commitment!  I can only take small doses at a time.

While it hasn't gotten too deep into the subject of the Holocaust yet, it does mention the Jewish ghettoes and overall persecution of Jews under Hitler.  I'm fuzzy on the term "Holocaust denier" because the term has become weaponized and used against all opponents of Zionism (google Norman Finkelstein).  I've read the major work of noted "denier" David Irving, "Hitler's War" which openly acknowledges the activities of the Einsatzgruppen (who rounded up and exterminated Jews in the German-conquered territories), mobile gas chambers (gas vans), and massacres of Jews in Bessarabia and other places.  If you research the "Holocaust" these are many of the things you will read about, so I find it strange that someone like Irving is called a "denier".

As to the film's being pro-Hitler, I acknowledged that in my initial post.  I don't believe I said it was made with the intent of warning good people against this type of thing in the future.  I'm pretty sure it was made by closet neo-Nazi Hitler apologists.  I do think, and I did say, that that's a good reason everyone should watch it.  The politically correct "Hitler cartoon" where he's this abused child turned idiot raving lunatic art school failure with flatulence problems who never showed any redeemable qualities whatsoever in his life; while it makes us feel good to watch it, does nothing to teach us about how he successfully won over the hearts and minds of the German people.

This film is made through the eyes of those who saw the world his way.  That is why I made the Paradise Lost comparison, though the comparison is not totally valid because I do not believe John Milton was a closet Satanist...the redeeming value of the work is the same.  Milton made a very serious effort to write much of his work from a "pro-Satan" perspective, to the point where some literary historians actually do believe he was a Satanist.

As to the film's connections to Stormfront and David Duke, I was unaware of that, but not altogether surprised to hear it.

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## Ronin Truth

https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&...ocaust+deniers



*"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)*

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## FloralScent

> Agreed.  It seems it was propped up by the building of infrastructure.  According to the film,* he disconnected from the central banking system*, however.


That's what got Germany bombed into the stone age, vilified almost nonstop for 70 years, and prompted the writing of this book,  Germany Must Perish!

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## willwash

From the Holocaust Memorial Museum:




> WHAT IS HOLOCAUST DENIAL AND DISTORTION?
> Holocaust denial is an attempt to negate the established facts of the Nazi genocide of European Jewry. Key denial assertions are: that the murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II never occurred; that the Nazis had no official policy or intention to exterminate the Jews; and that the poison gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp never existed.
> 
> A newer trend is the distortion of the facts of the Holocaust. Common distortions include, for example, assertions that: the figure of six million Jewish deaths is an exaggeration; the deaths in the concentration camps were the results of disease or starvation but not policy; and that the diary of Anne Frank is a forgery.
> 
> Distinct from denial and distortion is misuse of the Holocaust. Misuse occurs when aspects of the Holocaust are compared to events, situations, or people where there is no genocide or genocidal intent. Examples of Holocaust misuse include: claiming that Israeli-government actions are equivalent to those of the Nazis; equating the treatment of animals with the treatment of Jews and other victims during the Holocaust; labeling political opponents as Nazis; or misusing the terminology of the Holocaust to assert that particular actions are the same as actions undertaken by the Nazis.
> 
> Holocaust denial, distortion, and misuse all undermine the understanding of history. Denial and distortion of the Holocaust almost always reflect antisemitism.
> 
> ...


It is interesting how initially "denier" meant someone who outright denied the Holocaust, which made it very easy to villify a denier.  Once "Holocaust denier" became accepted into the popular lexicon as a so thoroughly disgusting person, the definition was gradually expanded (which is even subtly acknowledged on this page) to much less objectionable thoughts and expressions of healthy skepticism about particular aspects of it...of course, with no corresponding reduction in the political baggage of the term.

When people like Norman Finkelstein are labeled deniers for blatantly obvious political reasons, it undermines the credibility of the term.  By the whole issue I'm strangely reminded of D.A.R.E propaganda in elementary school, where I was told with a straight face that if I ever touched marijuana, I would certainly become a crack addict and eventually die in a gutter.

Also, is the quote in bold above a quite obvious call for curtailing freedom of speech in the US?

Also interesting is the use of the phrase "established facts" in the first sentence.  Reminds me of Al Gore telling us "the science is settled."  History, like science, must always remain open to the possibility of new evidence emerging.  Many aspects of the Holocaust which were at one time "established" have been subsequently proven false, such as human soap and lampshades.

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## Ronin Truth

> That's what got Germany bombed into the stone age, vilified almost nonstop for 70 years, and prompted the writing of this book,  Germany Must Perish!


http://www.solargeneral.org/wp-conte...re-kaufman.pdf

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## jmdrake

> Here's a condensed version:
> 
> Adolf Hitler - warmongering militarist who created his own military industrial complex and wrecked havoc, destruction and death on the world. 
> 
> Lesson - don't follow warmongers or give them power.
> 
> "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."


Well your condensed version left out.....

Germany was not solely at fault for World War I.

Germany was unfairly singled out for punishment for World War I.

The treaty of Versailles led to humiliation and economic deprivation of the German people.

Due to that humiliation and deprivation, the German people were willing to turn their nation over to a demagogue.  

The "blowback" of World War II was the predictable result.

So, don't engage in foreign policy that leads people to follow warmongers or give them power.  In other words, don't be a warmonger yourself, as our nation has been since before Smedley Butler wrote "War is a Racket".

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## Ronin Truth

https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&...+were+free+pdf

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## otherone

> From the Holocaust Memorial Museum:
> 
> IRONY


The "Holocaust" Memorial Museum should copyright the term, then they could utilize our Brown Shirts to enforce our use of it.

was that a misuse?

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## jmdrake

> //
> [i]"America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War _. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these 'isms' wouldn't today be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government - and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives." -- Winston Churchill, 1936 interview_


Wow!  That's sig worthy!  Thanks for posting that.

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## Schifference

> I've still only seen about the first 2 hours.  Deborah watching it twice in 2 days is some serious commitment!  I can only take small doses at a time.


Maybe I misread what Deborah said. "I watched the whole documentary yesterday and today." I did not interpret that as her watching it two times. It is a long documentary to view in one sitting.

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## otherone

> Maybe I misread what Deborah said. "I watched the whole documentary yesterday and today." I did not interpret that as her watching it two times. It is a long documentary to view in one sitting.

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## acptulsa

> The treaty of Versailles led to humiliation and economic deprivation of the German people.


Winston Churchill said of it at the time that it wasn't a treaty at all, it was '...a twenty year truce.'

Amazing accuracy.

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## Ronin Truth

> Wow!  That's sig worthy!  Thanks for posting that.


You're welcome.  I first ran across that quote on LRC a couple of years ago. 

Another nail for the Federal Reserve coffin.

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## Ronin Truth

http://www.angelfire.com/folk/bigbal.../MeinKampf.pdf

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## Ronin Truth

https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&...ve+world+war+1

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## Deborah K

> I've still only seen about the first 2 hours.  Deborah watching it twice in 2 days is some serious commitment!  I can only take small doses at a time.
> 
> While it hasn't gotten too deep into the subject of the Holocaust yet, it does mention the Jewish ghettoes and overall persecution of Jews under Hitler.  I'm fuzzy on the term "Holocaust denier" because the term has become weaponized and used against all opponents of Zionism (google Norman Finkelstein).  I've read the major work of noted "denier" David Irving, "Hitler's War" which openly acknowledges the activities of the Einsatzgruppen (who rounded up and exterminated Jews in the German-conquered territories), mobile gas chambers (gas vans), and massacres of Jews in Bessarabia and other places.  If you research the "Holocaust" these are many of the things you will read about, so I find it strange that someone like Irving is called a "denier".
> 
> As to the film's being pro-Hitler, I acknowledged that in my initial post.  I don't believe I said it was made with the intent of warning good people against this type of thing in the future.  I'm pretty sure it was made by closet neo-Nazi Hitler apologists.  I do think, and I did say, that that's a good reason everyone should watch it.  The politically correct "Hitler cartoon" where he's this abused child turned idiot raving lunatic art school failure with flatulence problems who never showed any redeemable qualities whatsoever in his life; while it makes us feel good to watch it, does nothing to teach us about how he successfully won over the hearts and minds of the German people.
> 
> This film is made through the eyes of those who saw the world his way.  That is why I made the Paradise Lost comparison, though the comparison is not totally valid because I do not believe John Milton was a closet Satanist...the redeeming value of the work is the same.  Milton made a very serious effort to write much of his work from a "pro-Satan" perspective, to the point where some literary historians actually do believe he was a Satanist.
> 
> As to the film's connections to Stormfront and David Duke, I was unaware of that, but not altogether surprised to hear it.


I didn't watch it twice.  It took me 2 days to watch it, in 4 segments actually.  It's so poorly edited that I couldn't get my husband to stay interested in it, and it was difficult at times for me to watch because of that as well.

It is, without a doubt, a holocaust denier film - they attribute the millions of emaciated naked bodies to typhus, and they deny the gas chambers, and the accusations of soap, lampshades, tattooed skin artwork, and the like.  And they never once connect Hitler to any of the concentration camps, and I don't think they ever even refer to them (concentration camps) as such.  They even featured testimony from supposed prisoners from Auschwitz that made it sound like a freakin' resort, complete with sports teams, orchestras, a theatre, a pool, plays put on by the kids......

You really should watch the whole thing, I'd like your take on it after you do. 

I knew right away, it was going to glorify Hitler, but I figured they would somehow attempt to justify the holocaust.  They definitely portray Hitler as a sympathetic character.  

I don't regret watching it though, because it's important to me to learn everything I can.  I am more untrusting and suspicious now than before I watched it.  

The love of power supersedes the power of love in this age, and it is very disheartening.   

Divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide and conquer.  And, to think that we're allowing them to do this to us is breaking my heart.

----------


## Deborah K

> "America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War [I]. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these 'isms' wouldn't today be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government - and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives." -- Winston Churchill, 1936 interview
> //


The film vilifies Churchill.  It makes him look like he tried to pull us into WWII.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> The film vilifies Churchill.  It makes him look like he tried to pull us into WWII.


Churchill was desperate, and he wrangled a promise from FDR (before the Pearl Harbor "Inside Job") who wanted to save good old "Uncle Joe".

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART.../6315/fdr.html

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/arc...earlharbor.pdf

*"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt*

----------


## Working Poor

I will not watch that video because nothing will ever convince me that Hitler was good. Also I am not too happy about Nazi scientist being brought to the USA.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> I will not watch that video because nothing will ever convince me that Hitler was good. Also I am not too happy about Nazi scientist being brought to the USA.


 There were NO leadership good guys.




> *"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."   -- Goering at the Nuremberg Trials*

----------


## Deborah K

> I will not watch that video because nothing will ever convince me that Hitler was good. Also I am not too happy about Nazi scientist being brought to the USA.


It won't convince you that Hitler was good, because he wasn't.  For me, he remains in the same category as Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, and others.  But if you want to "know thine enemy", this film will illuminate that for you - in ways you can't imagine. At least, it did for me.   I find it compelling that it has been banned in many countries.  It probably won't be available for long.

As far as Nazi scientists being brought to the U.S. - after watching this film, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

----------


## Demigod

> Well your condensed version left out.....
> 
> Germany was not solely at fault for World War I.
> 
> Germany was unfairly singled out for punishment for World War I.
> 
> The treaty of Versailles led to humiliation and economic deprivation of the German people.
> 
> Due to that humiliation and deprivation, the German people were willing to turn their nation over to a demagogue.  
> ...


How was Germany solely punished for WW I when Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman empire were erased from the map.Germany was punished no more than France was after the Franko-Prussian war when the Prussians humiliated France by crowning a German emperor in Paris plus forced the French to pay them 8 billion franks and all the war costs including the occupation of French territory  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...nco-German-War .

Hitler came to power because the Germans wanted to rule Europe,not because of some sanctions.The Italians were part of the Allies and even received territory for their part in WW I but went fascist because the Italian people wanted a leader who will make them an empire.

----------


## Demigod

> Well your condensed version left out.....
> 
> Germany was not solely at fault for World War I.
> 
> Germany was unfairly singled out for punishment for World War I.
> 
> The treaty of Versailles led to humiliation and economic deprivation of the German people.
> 
> Due to that humiliation and deprivation, the German people were willing to turn their nation over to a demagogue.  
> ...


How was Germany solely punished for WW I when Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman empire were erased from the map.Germany was punished no more than France was after the Franko-Prussian war when the Prussians humiliated France by crowning a German emperor in Paris plus forced the French to pay them 8 billion franks and all the war costs including the occupation of French territory  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...nco-German-War .

Hitler came to power because the Germans wanted to rule Europe,not because of some sanctions.The Italians were part of the Allies and even received territory for their part in WW I but went fascist because the Italian people wanted a leader who will make them an empire.

----------


## FloralScent

> Hitler came to power because the Germans wanted to rule Europe,not because of some sanctions.


You're going to have to provide a source for that.

----------


## Demigod

> You're going to have to provide a source for that.


here you go 




> How was Germany solely punished for WW I when Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman empire were erased from the map.Germany was punished no more than France was after the Franko-Prussian war when the Prussians humiliated France by crowning a German emperor in Paris plus forced the French to pay them 8 billion franks and all the war costs including the occupation of French territory  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...nco-German-War .
> 
> Hitler came to power because the Germans wanted to rule Europe,not because of some sanctions.The Italians were part of the Allies and even received territory for their part in WW I but went fascist because the Italian people wanted a leader who will make them an empire.

----------


## Ronin Truth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchi...nnecessary_War

----------


## dannno

> [denied] the accusations of soap, lampshades, tattooed skin artwork, and the like.


I think some of those are now mainstream/accepted positions. 

I'm only about 1/3 of the way through and they haven't gotten to any of the Holocaust denial. 

What I've found most interesting so far was the way the history of the WW's were portrayed, not sure if they are 100% accurate but I think there is probably a good amount of accuracy to it. Sometimes you watch something about history and it makes things make a lot more sense, whereas before I had questions. 

The Balfour agreement was very interesting- apparently WWI was about to end, Germany had won and they were offering peace treaties. England's leader secretly decided to trade Palestine which was part of their empire to the Zionists if the Zionists could get the US to intervene and defeat Germany. So the Zionsts probably were then behind the whole Lucitania incident, how else would they fulfill the agreement that is now known to have been made? So England agreed and this dragged the war on and cost many lives on both sides. Germany was forced to pay a lot of money to the allies, they lost key pieces of land that contained a lot of ethnic Germans and were devastated. This seemed like it was completely unnecessary, led to WWII, cost a lot of lives and the only people who got anything out of it were the Zionists by obtaining Palestine.

Then apparently in the following years ethnic Germans were being slaughtered in Poland by the tens of thousands... sort of like a mini-Holocaust. If we can justify invading Germany for slaughtering innocent Jews, why can't Germany justify invading Poland to stop the slaughter of ethnic Germans? So they did. However, Russia apparently also invaded eastern Poland at around the same time that Germany invaded western Poland, yet for some reason that was ok?

Obviously rounding up Jewish citizens, interning them and killing them was wrong...but it's interesting to see what actually led to that, how deep some conspiracies against the Germans by the Zionists ran, how the Nazis were really strongly anti-Communist etc..

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## Ronin Truth

https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&...evid=869782430

----------


## Ronin Truth

*There Was No Need For World War II*
http://www.rense.com/general63/ride.htm

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## Deborah K

I really think the important thing to remember about Nazi Germany is the fact that so many millions of people could be led and manipulated by one charismatic leader.  And it isn't an isolated incident, all throughout history that has been the case - which speaks to our natural inclination to be herded.  

This is why it is important for people who understand the meaning of individual liberty, to educate others on the likes of Edward L. Bernays.  Knowing his techniques arms us against attempts by the gov't to manipulate us.   He understood the value of propaganda better than anyone else.  It's a play on emotions.  Notice how the media, government, etc. don't ever try to appeal to our intellect?  They create a perception that will result in a predetermined emotional reaction.  Next time you feel pressured by the _herd_ - remember that.

In his book:  Crystallizing Public Opinion, Bernays wrote:  "Physical loneliness is a real terror to the gregarious animal, and that association with the herd causes a feeling of security. In man this fear of loneliness creates a desire for identification with the herd in matters of opinion."  This reveals that he knew, through our fear, how best to control the masses.

I can't prove it, but I think Hitler read Bernays' books and used his techniques.  It is well known that Goebbels had Bernays' books in his library.

Just some food for thought.

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## Deborah K

> I think some of those are now mainstream/accepted positions. 
> 
> I'm only about 1/3 of the way through and they haven't gotten to any of the Holocaust denial. 
> 
> What I've found most interesting so far was the way the history of the WW's were portrayed, not sure if they are 100% accurate but I think there is probably a good amount of accuracy to it. Sometimes you watch something about history and it makes things make a lot more sense, whereas before I had questions. 
> 
> The Balfour agreement was very interesting- apparently WWI was about to end, Germany had won and they were offering peace treaties. England's leader secretly decided to trade Palestine which was part of their empire to the Zionists if the Zionists could get the US to intervene and defeat Germany. So the Zionsts probably were then behind the whole Lucitania incident, how else would they fulfill the agreement that is now known to have been made? So England agreed and this dragged the war on and cost many lives on both sides. Germany was forced to pay a lot of money to the allies, *they lost key pieces of land that contained a lot of ethnic Germans and were devastated.*  This seemed like it was completely unnecessary, led to WWII, cost a lot of lives and the only people who got anything out of it were the Zionists by obtaining Palestine.
> 
> *Then apparently in the following years ethnic Germans were being slaughtered in Poland by the tens of thousands... sort of like a mini-Holocaust. If we can justify invading Germany for slaughtering innocent Jews, why can't Germany justify invading Poland to stop the slaughter of ethnic Germans? So they did. However, Russia apparently also invaded eastern Poland at around the same time that Germany invaded western Poland, yet for some reason that was ok?*
> ...


I haven't read Mein Kampf yet, but my understanding is that one of Hitler's agendas was to expand the territories, so I need verification that they actually lost key pieces of land.  As I mentioned in my first post, I need to do some follow up research.  I'm no expert on the WWs by any stretch, so before I take this information as truth, I want other sources that back up the claims.

----------


## Demigod

> I haven't read Mein Kampf yet, but my understanding is that one of Hitler's agendas was to expand the territories, so I need verification that they actually lost key pieces of land.  As I mentioned in my first post, I need to do some follow up research.  I'm no expert on the WWs by any stretch, so before I take this information as truth, I want other sources that back up the claims.



Except for the swamps in Eastern Prussia,Germany lost almost nothing in means of important  European territory,Germany was mostly punished financially and lost all of their colonies.But on the other hand Austro-Hungary as a multi-ethnic empire after its break up left a lot of German population in the various new countries and some of those countries like Czechoslovakia had a developed industry.Before WW II I can not say whether the Germans have been prosecuted,but after the war every German in Eastern Europe was either killed,deported to Germany or assimilated.
.

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## dannno

> I haven't read Mein Kampf yet, but my understanding is that one of Hitler's agendas was to expand the territories, so I need verification that they actually lost key pieces of land.  As I mentioned in my first post, I need to do some follow up research.  I'm no expert on the WWs by any stretch, so before I take this information as truth, I want other sources that back up the claims.


Ya I haven't really found anything in the video so far that makes me admire Hitler, he probably did want to expand his empire since he was surrounded by and competing with other expanding empires.

I'm not a huge fan of war and killing, Hitler reveled in it.. he wasn't a machine gunner tho, he liked to run messages around, capture enemies, etc.. 

Hitler liked jokes, except for sexual jokes and political jokes. I love sexual jokes and political jokes. Hitler didn't like drugs, abstract art or sex, he banned drugs, instituted smoking ordinances and made laws against homosexuality. They burned books and art. I love drugs and sex and am ok with people participating in homosexual activity. 

However seeing what Germany was up against and the issues they faced does help me understand where some of his legitimate concerns and feelings came from and why he took certain actions and why the German population supported it.

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## Ronin Truth

National Socialism
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...l-socialism-2/

Educational!

----------


## mac_hine

Below is an interesting video of a compilation of Hitler's speeches with English subtitles. Fascinating to listen to because he sounds like a run of the mill progressive. Did y'all know he admired FDR?   




> Of course, Roosevelt also had many loyal supporters. One of his admirers sent word to the White House encouraging the president to stand his ground and be proud of his "heroic efforts in the interests of the American people." The President's "successful battle against economic distress," wrote the German chancellor, Adolph Hitler, "is being followed by the entire German people with interest and admiration."


  The Surprising History of What Europe's Dictators Thought of the New Deal, http://www.alternet.org/story/151563...eal?page=0%2C0

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## erowe1

> Hitler get's a lot of bad press.


uhhh

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## Chester Copperpot

this film is complete pro-axis propaganda..  it whitewashes every transgression of the nazis and japs while completely illuminating those of the allies. War is never good.. bad things happen.. but this purports Hitler to be a saint. its bogus

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## otherone

> this purports Hitler to be a saint. its bogus



bad childhood.

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## dannno

> this film is complete pro-axis propaganda..  it whitewashes every transgression of the nazis and japs while completely illuminating those of the allies. War is never good.. bad things happen.. but this purports Hitler to be a saint. its bogus


But wait a minute, we've been taught about the atrocities Hitler and the Japanese committed our entire lives... What's wrong with having ONE film that does the opposite?? Admittedly I'm still only about half way thru, but I still haven't seen where the film glorifies Hitler - it does EXPLAIN why Hitler did some of the things he did by showing the atrocities that were being committed against the Germans and explaining the background behind the agreements with the British and the Zionists.... I dunno basically my take out of the whole thing so far was that Hitler was crazy and evil, but maybe only as or possibly even less crazy and evil than Stalin and probably even Churchill.

I'm not a fan of National Socialism at all, but at least it's an ethos.

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## Ronin Truth

Leftists Become Incandescent When Reminded of the Socialist Roots of Nazism

----------


## FloralScent

> But wait a minute, we've been taught about the atrocities Hitler and the Japanese committed our entire lives... What's wrong with having ONE film that does the opposite?? Admittedly I'm still only about half way thru, but I still haven't seen where the film glorifies Hitler - it does EXPLAIN why Hitler did some of the things he did by showing the atrocities that were being committed against the Germans and explaining the background behind the agreements with the British and the Zionists.... I dunno basically my take out of the whole thing so far was that Hitler was crazy and evil, but maybe only as or possibly even less crazy and evil than Stalin and probably even Churchill.
> 
> I'm not a fan of National Socialism at all, but at least it's an ethos.


Hitler's biggest crime was his meddling in military affairs, and he pretty much sealed the fate of Europe in doing so.  He had the chance to stomp the fledgling NWO into the dust and he blew it.  Had he left the execution of that war to von Manstein, history would read very differently.

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## Anti-Neocon

> I will not watch that video because nothing will ever convince me that Hitler was good. Also I am not too happy about Nazi scientist being brought to the USA.


Your position on Hitler/the Holocaust must be extremely strong if you won't allow it to be challenged.

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## erowe1

> Your position on Hitler/the Holocaust must be extremely strong if you won't allow it to be challenged.


Or she just has a good BS detector.

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## Anti-Neocon

> Or she just has a good BS detector.


That's an extremely special BS detector - one that can detect BS before even seeing it.

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## erowe1

> That's an extremely special BS detector - one that can detect BS before even seeing it.


Nope. That's a pretty normal BS detector. Smart folks don't need to go wasting their time gobbling up every tall tale they come across just so they can figure out they shouldn't believe them.

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## Anti-Neocon

> Nope. That's a pretty normal BS detector. Smart folks don't need to go wasting their time gobbling up every tall tale they come across just so they can figure out they shouldn't believe them.


Smart folks should at least take the effort to acquaint themselves with both sides of an issue before advocating for a particular side.

As for WWII, it is foolish to accept at face value the stories told by the Communist Soviets, who were particularly keen of propaganda.

It's kind of ironic how much blind faith of Communist government stories we see on a liberty-oriented forum.

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## erowe1

> Smart folks should at least take the effort to acquaint themselves with both sides of an issue before advocating for a particular side.
> 
> As for WWII, it is foolish to accept at face value the stories told by the Communist Soviets, who were particularly keen of propaganda.


The thread isn't about WW2 in general. It's about Hitler.

Hopefully you don't waste too much time acquainting yourself with the other side of the issue about the Earth being round before committing to the position that it is.

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## Anti-Neocon

> The thread isn't about WW2 in general. It's about Hitler.
> 
> Hopefully you don't waste too much time acquainting yourself with the other side of the issue about the Earth being round before committing to the position that it is.


Great false equivalence there.  WE can prove the Earth is round if we wish to.  The tools to do so are accessible to you or I.

Now you go and tell me how I can prove to myself the truthfulness of the Soviet line regarding Hilter and the Holocaust.

Otherwise, your post is fallacious rubbish.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> *National Socialism* 
> 
> By Charles Burris
> 
> December 10, 2014
> 
> Daniel Hannans excellent overview article describing the common collectivist roots of internationalist Marxist Socialism and German National Socialism is a topic that bears constant repetition to the attentive public. The subject has received previous detailed exposure in vital works such as Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihns _Leftism: from de Sade and Marx to Hitler and Marcuse,_ and Jonah Goldbergs _Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Change._ I contributed a brief piece myself on the subject at LRC a number of years ago. In the above superb documentary, _The Soviet Story,_this symbiotic relationship is forcefully driven home. In particular, check out George Watson, author of _The Lost Literature of Socialism (_beginning at 14:15) who Hannan used as one of his primary reference sources. The brief segment comparing and contrasting contemporary German National Socialist propaganda posters with those of Soviet Union (with the Internationale playing in the background) is one of the most amazing examples of film editing I have witnessed. I will be soon showing this superb documentary once again to my World History students next semester in January. I strongly urge you purchase it and the above mentioned books.
> 
> The Best of Charles Burris
> ...


http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/12/c...nal-socialism/

----------


## willwash

> Except for the swamps in Eastern Prussia,Germany lost almost nothing in means of important  European territory,Germany was mostly punished financially and lost all of their colonies.But on the other hand Austro-Hungary as a multi-ethnic empire after its break up left a lot of German population in the various new countries and some of those countries like Czechoslovakia had a developed industry.Before WW II I can not say whether the Germans have been prosecuted,but after the war every German in Eastern Europe was either killed,deported to Germany or assimilated.
> .


It's important to understand the pan-germanism that defined the nazi philosophy as well.  For thousands of years "Germany" was a loose fragmentation of small, weak principalities, often a single castle and the range at which you could shoot a narrow from it.  When Hitler took power in Germany, he saw it has his objective to unite all ethnic Germans under one flag, a process begun, but not finished, by Bismarck in the 19th century.  This is actually what the nazi slogan "Deutschland uber alles" meant.  It was not an ethnocentric jab at the rest of the world as is commonly taught...it was a rallying cry to ethnic Germans of this or that territory (at one point there were hundreds of tiny principalities) to put grossdeutschland--greater Germany--ahead of local loyalties, so that Germany could attain to the international power enjoyed by England and France.
This required territorial acquisitions in many countries, many of which were obtained peacefully, eg the Austrian Anschluss, the Ruhr valley, and the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia.  The international community drew the line at Danzig, however...Germany was becoming too powerful to be tolerated.  Over centuries and many, many wars, a delicate balance if power respected by the big powers of England, France, and Spain had developed.  Germany smashed onto the scene in the late 19 th century and messed all that up.  Spain was kind of irrelevant at that point, but England and France saw the emerging German threat as a common enemy.

----------


## BV2

Hitler was a piece of $#@!.  A real totalitarian scum bag.  If there is an untold story it is of the dangers of statism, and nothing more.  As a statist ruler, Hitler's name appears beside such paragons as: Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao.  There is no redeeming him, unless it is in the eyes of a statist.  If that is the case, is redemption even necessary?

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## Chester Copperpot

> But wait a minute, we've been taught about the atrocities Hitler and the Japanese committed our entire lives... What's wrong with having ONE film that does the opposite?? Admittedly I'm still only about half way thru, but I still haven't seen where the film glorifies Hitler - it does EXPLAIN why Hitler did some of the things he did by showing the atrocities that were being committed against the Germans and explaining the background behind the agreements with the British and the Zionists.... I dunno basically my take out of the whole thing so far was that Hitler was crazy and evil, but maybe only as or possibly even less crazy and evil than Stalin and probably even Churchill.
> 
> I'm not a fan of National Socialism at all, but at least it's an ethos.


Theres nothing "wrong" with it, except that it is just as much bull$#@! as the $#@! the other side says about stuff...

----------


## Ronin Truth

*“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”*

----------


## Anti-Neocon

I think "malleability" may be a better word than "power".  The true power lies in the hands of the mass media and those who have the money to buy influence.

----------


## usa

hi

----------


## usa

i swear you could be shari arison twin ? isreals richest woman 4.5 billion
http://www.forbes.com/profile/shari-arison/
would this give you notion to dislike the film?

----------


## usa

i swear you could be shari arison twin ? isreals richest woman 4.5 billion
http://www.forbes.com/profile/shari-arison/
would this give you notion to dislike the film?

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

I waited around for awhile to watch this but I never knew that this was so in depth and important. Its easily to this date the most important movie I have ever seen. If you have not seen it I highly recommend that you watch all of it. We have been lied to about so much in the past and I'm glad that this clears the air on so many past occurrences.

----------


## orenbus

> I waited around for awhile to watch this but I never knew that this was so in depth and important. Its easily to this date the most important movie I have ever seen. If you have not seen it I highly recommend that you watch all of it. We have been lied to about so much in the past and I'm glad that this clears the air on so many past occurrences.


Out of curiosity why do you believe the material in this video more than what is taught in school history books? If it's an issue of not trusting what many would consider established history, how do you trust one source vs. an other without yourself having first hand knowledge of the events?

----------


## VIDEODROME

6 hours?

----------


## Schifference

> Out of curiosity why do you believe the material in this video more than what is taught in school history books? If it's an issue of not trusting what many would consider established history, how do you trust one source vs. an other without yourself having first hand knowledge of the events?


Credibility of the historical establishment teachings?

----------


## orenbus

> Credibility of the historical establishment teachings?


Right but where would you draw the line? If no history can be accepted because the trust isn't there, how do you differentiate the credibility between a textbook and a 6 hour youtube video with emotional music in the background? And more importantly should we just assume outright that any history that is taught in schools is incorrect, and if so what gives a youtube video editor more credibility? How does one determine propaganda from historical fact? And how will you ever truly know if it's accurate?

----------


## squarepusher

> I waited around for awhile to watch this but I never knew that this was so in depth and important. Its easily to this date the most important movie I have ever seen. If you have not seen it I highly recommend that you watch all of it. We have been lied to about so much in the past and I'm glad that this clears the air on so many past occurrences.


what makes you think this video is a more credible source than other information you have heard?

----------


## Schifference

> Right but where would you draw the line? If no history can be accepted because the trust isn't there, how do you differentiate the credibility between a textbook and a 6 hour youtube video with emotional music in the background? And more importantly should we just assume outright that any history that is taught in schools is incorrect, and if so what gives a youtube video editor more credibility? How does one determine propaganda from historical fact? And how will you ever truly know if it's accurate?


I agree. Lies are often disguised as truth. It is nearly impossible to distinguish fact from fiction. Even when you think you have it correct there is always that chance that you don't. I give no more credibility to the youtube video than I would anything else I hear or read. Turning on the nightly news channels are proof enough that two extremes can be passed on as being correct. All I think is that a different perspective can be acquired that might lend credence to an alternative version. I watched the Clinton Chronichles the other day after being exposed to its availability on youtube. They say that is true. Is it? IDK. If it is the Clintons are dirtbags. I don't think you have to be a full blown conspiracy theory nut or a 9/11 truther to watch a video on 9/11 and be mistified at the collapse of Tower 7.

----------


## acptulsa

This documentary covers some 13 years out of all the millennia and this is the most important movie you've ever seen?  That's a shame.

How about _Mr. Smith Goes to Washington_?  _Dr. Strangelove_?  _War, Inc._?  _Henry V_ or _Hamlet_?  _A Lion in Winter_?  _Fahrenheit 9/11_ on the documentary side?  Have you seen anything beyond Muppet movies?

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## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Out of curiosity why do you believe the material in this video more than what is taught in school history books? If it's an issue of not trusting what many would consider established history, how do you trust one source vs. an other without yourself having first hand knowledge of the events?


Because only one side of history has been told for the last 65 years or so. Only now is the truth being broken out and I don't want to give too much away here. It's all explained in the movie. You just have to watch the entire movie to understand.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> 6 hours?


yes but they are also broken down into 27 parts 

you can view the vid in that manner here:

http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

----------


## orenbus

So I started watching the movie, do they really open it up with unchained melody popular from Ghost soundtrack playing in the background? LOL



I'll try watching this, but I can tell already it's going to be tough.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> This documentary covers some 13 years out of all the millennia and this is the most important movie you've ever seen?  That's a shame.
> 
> How about _Mr. Smith Goes to Washington_?  _Dr. Strangelove_?  _War, Inc._?  _Henry V_ or _Hamlet_?  _A Lion in Winter_?  _Fahrenheit 9/11_ on the documentary side?  Have you seen anything beyond Muppet movies?


WOW. Are you a troll. What a disgusting response. 13 years? where did you get that number? Did you even watch the movie? It has a lot of similarities to what is going on today. 

I've always stayed away from the Hitler topic because I work in Hollywood in TV and I have a lot of friends that might be offended by such talk. As a child I was told by teachers that Hitler killed the jews because they did not believe that Jesus was the messiah. That could be further from the truth and this movie offers many good explanations. If you want to be close minded and ignorant then please don't watch it. Go back to watching Jerry Springer.

I've offered up a great experience of newfound knowledge but I didn't expect to be treated like dirt by fellow Libertarians on this forum. Watch the movie and make up your own mind but attacking my judgement is a lack of respect on all levels.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> So I started watching the movie, do they really open it up with unchained melody popular from Ghost soundtrack playing in the background? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try watching this, but I can tell already it's going to be tough.


Don't be an ass.

----------


## willwash

Old news:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...r+untold+story

----------


## Schifference

> Don't be an ass.


Can you accept a different viewpoint? If not how could you expect anyone to thing favorably to this movie?

----------


## PierzStyx

> This documentary covers some 13 years out of all the millennia and this is the most important movie you've ever seen?  That's a shame.
> 
> How about.....  _Fahrenheit 9/11_ on the documentary side?


Really? I trust nothing by that fat liar Michael Moore.

How about Citizenfour?

----------


## Schifference

> Really? I trust nothing by that fat liar Michael Moore.
> 
> How about Citizenfour?


I fell asleep with Citizenfour twice. But I work nights and probably was tired. The movie did not lock me in in the first few minutes. I hope it comes on when I can watch it. It is not available "On Demand" I am sure I will see it sooner or later.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Old news:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...r+untold+story



I never claimed it was new ... yes it did come out years ago 2012 I believe. I thought that I clearly mentioned that I had waited around for a long time to watch it. Did you even read my original post?

----------


## Schifference

> I never claimed it was new ... yes it did come out years ago 2012 I believe. I thought that I clearly mentioned that I had waited around for a long time to watch it. Did you even read my original post?


Point is there was a thread for this video already.

----------


## willwash

> I never claimed it was new ... yes it did come out years ago 2012 I believe. I thought that I clearly mentioned that I had waited around for a long time to watch it. Did you even read my original post?


My point is that there is already a thread about this film, not that the film itself is old news.  Yes I read your post.

----------


## Schifference

Give it up!

----------


## Suzanimal

> I fell asleep with Citizenfour twice. But I work nights and probably was tired. The movie did not lock me in in the first few minutes. I hope it comes on when I can watch it. It is not available "On Demand" I am sure I will see it sooner or later.


I was riveted. Try it again when you're well rested.

----------


## willwash

bump

----------


## Schifference

> I was riveted. Try it again when you're well rested.


I will! I hope I stated clearly that my opportunities to view were limited and I expect to see this in the future.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> My point is that there is already a thread about this film, not that the film itself is old news.  Yes I read your post.


Yes I see, you posted a thread about it earlier. So what?

----------


## orenbus

Ok so I cheated a little instead of watching the 6 hours I watched some ads from the video creator to get a summary. Essentially what I'm getting from the promos is that WW2 is the Jews fault, we've all been brainwashed to believe Hitler and the Nazis did all the things they say they did, the history books have been written in a way to make the Jews/Zionists look like the victims, but instead they are the evil ones that Hitler was trying to save the world from or something like that. All this being told with sympathetic music in the background designed I'm sure to invoke an emotional response which makes it really hard to take seriously, although I'll still try to watch it, anyway here is a promo.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Ok so I cheated a little instead of watching the 6 hours I watched some ads from the video creator to get a summary. Essentially what I'm getting from the promos is that WW2 is the Jews fault, we've all been brainwashed to believe Hitler and the Nazis did all the things they say they did, the history books have been written in a way to make the Jews/Zionists look like the victims, but instead they are the evil ones that Hitler was trying to save the world from or something like that. All this being told with sympathetic music in the background designed I'm sure to invoke an emotional response which makes it really hard to take seriously, although I'll still try to watch it, anyway here is a promo.


I can't take your close-minded idiotic response seriously. Is this really a Ron Paul dedicated forum? I feel like I'm on Huffington Post for some reason.

----------


## orenbus

> I can't take your close-minded idiotic response seriously. Is this really a Ron Paul dedicated forum? I feel like I'm on Huffington Post for some reason.


Neg-Rep, really? You shouldn't take it so personally just because I may make some critical comments about this movie you posted that differ from yours. Close-minded? I don't think talking about how the movie is obviously put together and edited is being outlandish it's pretty obvious from the start there is a goal in mind with the music choices and the slogans/language being used even the title of the movie, that's not really a controversial concept, especially in advocacy documentaries. 

As I said I haven't given up on watching the movie and am staying open minded, but I'm going to form an opinion based on what I see because its the only thing being presented right now, and will call it as I see it. What I won't do is blindly accept what is being presented without thinking things through however, that would be close-minded.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Neg-Rep, really? You shouldn't take it so personally just because I may make some critical comments about this movie you posted that differ from yours. Close-minded? As I said I haven't given up on watching the movie and am staying open minded, but I'm going to form an opinion based on what I see because its the only thing being presented right now, and will call it as I see it. What I won't do is blindly accept what is being presented without thinking things through however, that would be close-minded.


Yes your post above was ludicrous. I would comment and make my thoughts about the movie known but then again I don't want to spoil the movie for all to see.

----------


## acptulsa

Um, I don't really want to tell you how to do your job, but the reason your boss created this sleeper-cell account three years ago was so that, when you popped up posting anti-semitic bull$#@! today, it would look like we've been putting up with--and welcoming--the like for years.  This is what I call guilt by association trolling.

And when you pop up with something that was thoroughly discredited in a memorable way not that long ago--something that even vbulletin's rather primitive search function could have warned you about--and then attack literally everyone who pops up in the thread, it kind of spoils the effect...

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Um, I don't really want to tell you how to do your job, but the reason your boss created this sleeper-cell account three years ago was so that, when you popped up posting anti-semitic bull$#@! today, it would look like we've been putting up with--and welcoming--the like for years.  This is what I call guilt by association trolling.
> 
> And when you pop up with something that was thoroughly discredited in a memorable way not that long ago--something that even vbulletin's rather primitive search function could have warned you about--and then attack literally everyone who pops up in the thread, it kind of spoils the effect...


1. I was attacked first and discredited first. 

2. I come in here from time to time, but not very often because of the high rudeness factor. I mostly spend my time on the DP where posters are open minded. 

3. The film is not anti-semetic. I love how you make judgements without even watching the film. Jumping to speculation and making prejudice assumptions is not what true libertarians do.  The film is about liberty vs. communism but clearly there is no way you could ever get the picture.

----------


## acptulsa

> 1. I was attacked first and discredited first. 
> 
> 2. I come in here from time to time, but not very often because of the high rudeness factor. I mostly spend my time on the DP where posters are open minded. 
> 
> 3. The film is not anti-semetic. I love how you make judgements without even watching the film. Jumping to speculation and making prejudice assumptions is not what true libertarians do.  The film is about liberty vs. communism but clearly there is no way you could ever get the picture.


The film was attacked, and you made the mistake of taking it personally.

The first thing in this thread that could remotely be considered a personal attack is in post number 12.  Which is your post.




> "Broadmindedness is another way of saying that a fellow is too lazy to form an opinion."--_Will Rogers_


And I love how you jump to the conclusion that I haven't watched the film.

----------


## orenbus

Oh I found the other thread regarding this video, here is a link:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...est+story+told

I'm still going through the old thread although I noticed Deb posted about it, which I find some concerning descriptions of the content along with some points made that may be constructive. Still have to go through the content myself, but I have a feeling her review is probably accurate, reposting here.




> I watched the whole documentary yesterday and today.  It is a glorification of Hitler and the Nazis.  It is a Holocaust denier film.  No where in the film does it discuss the dangers of "falling under someone like this's sway".  In the credits they acknowledge the help of Stormfront in making the film.  It also features a clip from David Duke.  And of course, they blame the Jews for the world's ills - but they're subtle and clever about it.
> 
> It was a deeply disturbing film, graphic, and revisionist.  They mixed truth with fabrication in an effort to appear credible. They are guilty of what they accuse others of doing, that is, covering up the truth.  And they make incredible claims about how much better the world would be had the Nazis won - even listing what they consider social ills as not existing at all had the Nazis won.
> 
> The only redeeming value this film has, is in its exposure of the evil that is within every government there ever was, is, and ever will be, and that central banking is ruining the world.   The film accurately points out the hypocrisy of the U.S. government's treatment of Native Indians, Blacks, etc. while pointing fingers at Germany's treatment of Jews.  It also shines a very bright light on our WWII ally: Stalin aka 'Uncle Joe', and his atrocities.  It got me to thinking that our alliance with the Soviet Union during WWII might explain the communist infiltration we've had ever since then. I had always assumed it was Marxist influence, and labor unions that caused it.  Hitler, it seems, was a great hater of communism.  I wish FDR was as great a hater of it. (He's the one who nicknamed Stalin 'Uncle Joe'.) He apparently had communists in his cabinet.  The more I read and hear about FDR, the more I can't stand him. 
> 
> I've never researched the Holocaust denier position, and I wasn't expecting that when I watched this film.  I intend to do some verification on some of the claims, and to take some time to absorb it all.  Right now, I'm coming away from it feeling very disillusioned about the nature of man.





> I didn't watch it twice.  It took me 2 days to watch it, in 4 segments actually.  It's so poorly edited that I couldn't get my husband to stay interested in it, and it was difficult at times for me to watch because of that as well.
> 
> It is, without a doubt, a holocaust denier film - they attribute the millions of emaciated naked bodies to typhus, and they deny the gas chambers, and the accusations of soap, lampshades, tattooed skin artwork, and the like.  And they never once connect Hitler to any of the concentration camps, and I don't think they ever even refer to them (concentration camps) as such.  They even featured testimony from supposed prisoners from Auschwitz that made it sound like a freakin' resort, complete with sports teams, orchestras, a theatre, a pool, plays put on by the kids......
> 
> You really should watch the whole thing, I'd like your take on it after you do. 
> 
> I knew right away, it was going to glorify Hitler, but I figured they would somehow attempt to justify the holocaust.  They definitely portray Hitler as a sympathetic character.





> It won't convince you that Hitler was good, because he wasn't.  For me, he remains in the same category as Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, and others.  But if you want to "know thine enemy", this film will illuminate that for you - in ways you can't imagine. At least, it did for me.   I find it compelling that it has been banned in many countries.  It probably won't be available for long.





> I really think the important thing to remember about Nazi Germany is the fact that so many millions of people could be led and manipulated by one charismatic leader.  And it isn't an isolated incident, all throughout history that has been the case - which speaks to our natural inclination to be herded.  
> 
> This is why it is important for people who understand the meaning of individual liberty, to educate others on the likes of Edward L. Bernays.  Knowing his techniques arms us against attempts by the gov't to manipulate us.   He understood the value of propaganda better than anyone else.  It's a play on emotions.  Notice how the media, government, etc. don't ever try to appeal to our intellect?  They create a perception that will result in a predetermined emotional reaction.  Next time you feel pressured by the _herd_ - remember that.
> 
> In his book:  Crystallizing Public Opinion, Bernays wrote:  "Physical loneliness is a real terror to the gregarious animal, and that association with the herd causes a feeling of security. In man this fear of loneliness creates a desire for identification with the herd in matters of opinion."  This reveals that he knew, through our fear, how best to control the masses.
> 
> I can't prove it, but I think Hitler read Bernays' books and used his techniques.  It is well known that Goebbels had Bernays' books in his library.
> 
> Just some food for thought.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Oh I found the other thread regarding this video, here is a link:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...est+story+told
> 
> I'm still going through the old thread although I noticed Deb posted about it, which I find some concerning descriptions of the content along with some points made that may be constructive. Still have to go through the content myself, but I have a feeling her review is probably accurate, reposting here.


I read her post as well. My first thought is that her view is highly inaccurate and the film never once denies the holocaust. It mentions it many times but the film is more focused on what the country went through during the war on communism and also shows that Germany was treated very unfairly as well.

----------


## CPUd

This thread should be on the front page.

----------


## francisco

> This thread should be on the front page.


I strongly disagree. The last thing in the world that the liberty movement needs is apologia for one of the greatest mass-murderers in history. I mean really.

This is further evidence for what another poster said recently, that there is a small contingent of supposed RP supporters who are just contrarians, rather than libertarians.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> I strongly disagree. The last thing in the world that the liberty movement needs is apologia for one of the greatest mass-murderers in history. I mean really.
> 
> This is further evidence for what another poster said recently, that there is a small contingent of supposed RP supporters who are just contrarians, rather than libertarians.


I'm not on anybodys side here but the side of truth. Germany was greatly oppressed by communist powers and wanted nothing but peace and financial freedom away from the controlling central banks. Does that ring a bell? I think the past history of Germany and Hitler being aggressors and mass murders is a bit of a stretch. Lets see, Russia and the other communist countries have had over 80 years to spew lies and propaganda but the Germans have never had a chance to tell their side of the story. You have to watch the entire movie to see why but I appreciate you reciting the same communist propaganda used for many years.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> This thread should be on the front page.


I'm glad that you watched the movie.

----------


## francisco

> *...I think the past history of Germany and Hitler being aggressors and mass murders is a bit of a stretch...*


Are you disputing that the Holocaust occurred, and that Germany under the leadership of Hitler organized the mass extermination of literally millions of people?

Your views are reprehensible. They do not belong here. Please go away.

----------


## dannno

> Really? I trust nothing by that fat liar Michael Moore.
> 
> How about Citizenfour?


Citizenfour is great, but if you want to know what happened on 9/11 you need to watch Fahrenheit 9/11. A lot of 'truthers' trash talk it because it doesn't go far enough, but it really does provide a solid foundation for understanding our relationship, and specifically the Bush family's relationship and our country's economic relationship with the Saudis.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> Are you disputing that the Holocaust occurred, and that Germany under the leadership of Hitler organized the mass extermination of literally millions of people?
> 
> You views are reprehensible. They do not belong here. Please go away.


Wait.  Views are reprehensible?  How can any person's view affect you?  I might have a "view" that all people are maggots living in a sewer and our little bitty minds are creating this entire false universe.  Why would a view be anything you should concern yourself with?  If you don't like someone's view you ignore them and go on with your life.  I personally have some "questions" about the "holocaust".  I certainly do not deny that many Jews were killed by the Nazis but I question the statistics.  I also don't think most of them were killed in "gas chambers" but probably starved to death and left in disease infested cells (does that sound any better than gas chambers?).  I think I might prefer the gas chambers.  Anyway, don't you think that "history" is written by the victors?  Don't you think that people will exaggerate to gain some political edge?  

Sure, millions of Jews were killed.  None of them should have been.  War is hell and we see the same crap every time one is waged.  Making your "enemy" appear to your people as an evil wicked creature deserving of death in the most horrible of terms is part of the game.  Why right now there are people sending drones and fighter jets with huge bombs that will kill many innocent people who just happen to be in the "wrong" place (like their bedroom) because those sending the bombs believe that these people are evil wicked creatures.  "Oh, he's only 10?  Too bad, he would have killed us all if he had the chance..."

----------


## Acala

I'll go this far: there were no sweethearts in WWI or in WWII and the treaty of Versailles was bull$#@!.  BUT Hitler was an opportunistic tyrant and a murderer.  Tyrants and murderers deserve to be spewed upon by posterity in the hope that someday we will stop supporting new ones.  The possibility that a tyrant and murderer acts against other tyrants and murderers does not excuse his acts of tyranny and murder.

----------


## dannno

> Are you disputing that the Holocaust occurred, and that Germany under the leadership of Hitler organized the mass extermination of literally millions of people?


I think it's all a lot more complicated. I think Hitler was chosen by the elite to bring Germany out of their depression and to help create the state of Israel. That's why you see the Bush family and others helping Hitler rise to power and even helped him during the war. The Jewish people were going to be used as a sort of sacrifice by the elite in order to gain the state of Israel. 

Hitler put Jews in concentration camps, I'm not 100% certain if they were just supposed to be labor camps where the Jews were forced to labor to help the war effort or whether or at what time they may have been intended to be used as extermination camps. That is still up for debate, imo. Also up for debate is how many Jews were exterminated and how many died of typhus. I don't think it has to be all or nothing, the answer very well may lay in the middle. That doesn't make a person a Holocaust denier.

I think Hitler was correct in blaming some bankers for what was going on and some of the bankers happened to be Jewish, and I think he misguidedly blamed the whole thing on a conspiracy by "the Jews" when in fact the Jews were being used by the elite as a sacrifice to gain Israel. 

I only watched about an hour or so of the film, it did provide some good historical information and I tend to believe a majority of it. I didn't see anything in the film, YET, about Holocaust denial. I didn't see anything, YET, that was heavily glorifying Hitler.. In fact I came out of it disliking Hitler more than I had before, from a personality standpoint. Some people who have seen it say it glorifies Hitler and denies the Holocaust, others say it does not.

I like Jewish people, btw.

----------


## Ender

> The thread isn't about WW2 in general. It's about Hitler.
> 
> Hopefully you don't waste too much time acquainting yourself with the other side of the issue about the Earth being round before committing to the position that it is.


If the US hadn't entered into WWI, a silly war about borders, WWII and Hitler would never have happened. The atrocities that England & the US piled upon Germany with the Versailles Treaty was uncalled for. Basically WWII was an extension of WWI- the war that should never have been.

It is incredibly wise to: QUESTION EVERYTHING and to ALWAYS look at both sides of an issue- the truth just might be in there somewhere.

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> If the US hadn't entered into WWI, a silly war about borders, WWII and Hitler would never have happened. The atrocities that England & the US piled upon Germany with the Versailles Treaty was uncalled for. Basically WWII was an extension of WWI- the war that should never have been.
> 
> It is incredibly wise to: QUESTION EVERYTHING and to ALWAYS look at both sides of an issue- the truth just might be in there somewhere.


Nobody is denying the holocaust and nobody is praising Hitler but I do think that some truths have been stretched very far. You or I can take an internet test kit and we can sample the so called gas chambers to see if any gas has ever been used on the grounds of those concentration camps. They have all been throughly tested and not one has had any sign of any gassing chemicals. They have also been tested by professional companies and they did not come up with any proof either. 

Germany is no different than Cuba, Iran and Iceland in that they wanted freedom from the central banks and were ready to die for liberation. 

And, the people of Germany were being massacred left and right by the pols and other communist institutions long before even WWI started. Stalin massacred prob 15 times the amount of people that died in German POW camps and many were jews too but you never hear of that. The Gulags had much worse conditions than Germany ever did and much of what we know about the conditions there were distorted during the biased Nuremberg trials. 

Again I see a lot of people quick to judge a horrendous situation but it doesn't help to not give both sides a fair share of discussion.

----------


## Ender

> Nobody is denying the holocaust and nobody is praising Hitler but I do think that some truths have been stretched very far. You or I can take an internet test kit and we can sample the so called gas chambers to see if any gas has ever been used on the grounds of those concentration camps. They have all been throughly tested and not one has had any sign of any gassing chemicals. They have also been tested by professional companies and they did not come up with any proof either. 
> 
> Germany is no different than Cuba, Iran and Iceland in that they wanted freedom from the central banks and were ready to die for liberation. 
> 
> And, the people of Germany were being massacred left and right by the pols and other communist institutions long before even WWI started. Stalin massacred prob 15 times the amount of people that died in German POW camps and many were jews too but you never hear of that. The Gulags had much worse conditions than Germany ever did and much of what we know about the conditions there were distorted during the biased Nuremberg trials. 
> 
> Again I see a lot of people quick to judge a horrendous situation but it doesn't help to not give both sides a fair share of discussion.


Completely agree.

----------


## orenbus

Just as a side note had one other thing to add as I'm watching this, I noticed a lot if not most of the video imagery and sounds that are owned by various other companies and entities and I don't see where these are credited to the original owners. I'd have a hard time believing these companies gave permission to the video editor for use of their material at the very least without credits. Because I know this is just some guy behind a computer somewhere putting together a video to post on youtube it's less of an issue for me (although it does bother me a bit he most likely is profiting from ad revenue and certainty from membership dues between 17-37 pounds off of the production of others), but for those that believe in intellectual property rights it's probably something that may be of concern, just wanted to point this out.

For example here is one of the movies that video footage is being reused in this video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSjkpaXlXIE

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Just as a side note had one other thing to add as I'm watching this, I noticed a lot if not most of the video imagery and sounds that are owned by various other companies and entities and I don't see where these are credited to the original owners. I'd have a hard time believing these companies gave permission to the video editor for use of their material at the very least without credits. Because I know this is just some guy behind a computer somewhere putting together a video to post on youtube it's less of an issue for me (although it does bother me a bit he most likely is profiting from ad revenue and certainty from membership dues between 17-37 pounds off of the production of others), but for those that believe in intellectual property rights it's probably something that may be of concern, just wanted to point this out.
> 
> For example here is one of the movies that video footage is being reused in this video;
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSjkpaXlXIE


Do a search for David Irving on youtube. He's been researching these topics for years and I believe he is an Oxford scholar or something like that. I saw that some of the credits came from his book and he has some great conference videos online. 

I worked for a TV show that took youtube videos off of youtube all of the time and there was no issue as long as we credited the YT account. I see no problem with what he did here. 

Orenbus, have you even watched the video yet?

----------


## Danke

> Do a search for David Irving on youtube. He's been researching these topics for years and I believe he is an Oxford scholar or something like that. I saw that some of the credits came from his book and he has some great conference videos online. 
> 
> I worked for a TV show that took youtube videos off of youtube all of the time and there was no issue as long as we credited the YT account. I see no problem with what he did here. 
> 
> Orenbus, have you even watched the video yet?

----------


## orenbus

> Do a search for David Irving on youtube. He's been researching these topics for years and I believe he is an Oxford scholar or something like that. I saw that some of the credits came from his book and he has some great conference videos online. 
> 
> I worked for a TV show that took youtube videos off of youtube all of the time and there was no issue as long as we credited the YT account. I see no problem with what he did here. 
> 
> Orenbus, have you even watched the video yet?


Yea I wasn't talking about the arguments being made, but more the video/audio property being used and potential copyright infringement and/or profiting from others works.

I've also worked in the TV/Film industry and there are specific rules regarding terms of use (or fair use) when it comes to copyrighted works beyond just crediting depending on the license being used and purview of the entity using it. Also if it is not clearly defined that materials can be used for profit by the terms of use, the editor would still need to contact the copyright owner such as in this case (in regards to the video imagery) the original film production studio Alliance Atlantis Communications Inc. which was bought out by Entertainment One in order to get permission, this usually comes at a cost and it's not cheap. The original video imagery isn't something that was just posted on youtube, it was from a multi-million dollar 2003 mini-series that originally aired on CBS and recieved two emmy awards starring Robert Carlyle.


Still in the process of watching, doing it on and off as time becomes available.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Nobody is denying the holocaust and nobody is praising Hitler but I do think that some truths have been stretched very far. You or I can take an internet test kit and we can sample the so called gas chambers to see if any gas has ever been used on the grounds of those concentration camps. They have all been throughly tested and not one has had any sign of any gassing chemicals. They have also been tested by professional companies and they did not come up with any proof either. 
> 
> Germany is no different than Cuba, Iran and Iceland in that they wanted freedom from the central banks and were ready to die for liberation. 
> 
> *And, the people of Germany were being massacred left and right by the pols and other communist institutions long before even WWI started. Stalin massacred prob 15 times the amount of people that died in German POW camps and many were jews too but you never hear of that. The Gulags had much worse conditions than Germany ever did and much of what we know about the conditions there were distorted during the biased Nuremberg trials.* 
> 
> Again I see a lot of people quick to judge a horrendous situation but it doesn't help to not give both sides a fair share of discussion.


Yup.  That's Winner's History for ya.

----------


## amy31416

Hitler was a tyrant, a mass-murderer and a decent orator. 

Pretty much describes most politicians. Bush/Cheney, Obama, Netanyahu etc. in our current times.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> Hitler was a tyrant, a mass-murderer and a decent orator. 
> 
> Pretty much describes most politicians. Bush/Cheney, Obama, Netanyahu etc. in our current times.


ummmm, yup...

----------


## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Hitler was a tyrant, a mass-murderer and a decent orator. 
> 
> Pretty much describes most politicians. Bush/Cheney, Obama, Netanyahu etc. in our current times.



He was defending the Liberty of his country from the tyrants. Mass murder was just part of going to war and was a result of defending his country. 

Stop reciting that old communist belief system. It looks bad on you.

----------


## Danke



----------


## acptulsa

> He was defending the Liberty of his country from the tyrants.


Making an agreement with Josef Stalin to simultaneously invade Poland and split it between them was defensive and against tyrants?

He invaded Belgium to get at France and made them sign the capitulation in the same railcar where Germany surrendered the last war because he needed to in order to defend German borders?

North Africa was a major threat to the beer halls of Bonn?

Really?

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## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Making an agreement with Josef Stalin to simultaneously invade Poland and split it between them was defensive and against tyrants?
> 
> He invaded Belgium to get at France and made them sign the capitulation in the same railcar where Germany surrendered the last war because he needed to in order to defend German borders?
> 
> North Africa was a major threat to the beer halls of Bonn?
> 
> Really?


Haha, you are just reciting a one sided story that you found in some biased textbook. Try looking at both sides and then come to a conclusion. Did you know that discussing the wars in Europe will land you in jail? What kind of tyranny is that?

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## Rothbardian Girl

> I'm not on anybodys side here but the side of truth. Germany was greatly oppressed by communist powers and wanted nothing but peace and financial freedom away from the controlling central banks.


Um, not sure if serious. Nazi Germany's economic policies were wholly Keynesian and anti-market in motivation to further rearmament. That is the opposite of seeking "peace and financial freedom". The Nazis fought against the Great Depression by introducing Keynesian deficit spending policies, namely huge public works projects. By the late 1930s, the price system was regulated by political directive rather than market forces. Germany's economic growth was almost entirely financed by public spending and investment, as consumer incomes remained flat. It is not "financial freedom" to pass a law requiring that shareholders who received dividends of more than 6% had to channel the extra money to the purchase of German war bonds. Real economic freedom success story going on there. Do you not see the contradiction between your apparent support of Ron Paul and your endorsement of Nazi economic policy?

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## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Um, not sure if serious. Nazi Germany's economic policies were wholly Keynesian and anti-market in motivation to further rearmament. That is the opposite of seeking "peace and financial freedom". The Nazis fought against the Great Depression by introducing Keynesian deficit spending policies, namely huge public works projects. By the late 1930s, the price system was regulated by political directive rather than market forces. Germany's economic growth was almost entirely financed by public spending and investment, as consumer incomes remained flat. It is not "financial freedom" to pass a law requiring that shareholders who received dividends of more than 6% had to channel the extra money to the purchase of German war bonds. Real economic freedom success story going on there. Do you not see the contradiction between your apparent support of Ron Paul and your endorsement of Nazi economic policy?


So did this happen before or after WWI?

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## acptulsa

> Haha, you are just reciting a one sided story that you found in some biased textbook. Try looking at both sides and then come to a conclusion. Did you know that discussing the wars in Europe will land you in jail? What kind of tyranny is that?


Having fun ducking three serious questions at once?




> So did this happen before or after WWI?


You come here to educate us yet you think there were both a Nazi Party and a thing called the 1930s before the First World War?

Yeah, stick a fork in yourself if you don't believe me.  You're done.

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## RonPaul4Prez2012

> Having fun ducking three serious questions at once?
> 
> 
> 
> You come here to educate us yet you think there were both a Nazi Party and a thing called the 1930s before the First World War?
> 
> Yeah, stick a fork in yourself if you don't believe me.  You're done.


1. I didn't "come here to educate you" I just wanted to present another perspective of the events. There are two sides to every story. You seem to accept the version told by the communists. 

2. You left out a ton of context in your above statement. I actually think it was a good idea to subsidize the economy during the great depression. The outcome resulted in one of the best economies in Europe at the time. Also take in mind that "the unfair Treaty of Versailles ... in 1921 the total cost of these reparations was assessed at 132 billion Marks (then $31.4 billion or £6.6 billion, roughly equivalent to US $442 billion or UK £284 billion in 2015)." They had to pay that off somehow. Dig a little deeper before you blast out irrational statements like you did above.

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## Demigod

> He was defending the Liberty of his country from the tyrants. Mass murder was just part of going to war and was a result of defending his country. 
> 
> Stop reciting that old communist belief system. It looks bad on you.


WTF are you talking about?




> 1. I didn't "come here to educate you" I just wanted to present another perspective of the events. There are two sides to every story. You seem to accept the version told by the communists. 
> 
> 2. You left out a ton of context in your above statement. I actually think it was a good idea to subsidize the economy during the great depression. The outcome resulted in one of the best economies in Europe at the time. Also take in mind that "the unfair Treaty of Versailles ... in 1921 the total cost of these reparations was assessed at 132 billion Marks (then $31.4 billion or £6.6 billion, roughly equivalent to US $442 billion or UK £284 billion in 2015)." They had to pay that off somehow. Dig a little deeper before you blast out irrational statements like you did above.


No it was not the best economy in Europe even by a long shot.They had the initial boom that every socialist countries gets in the beginning  while there are things that can be easily confiscated ( in their case even countries to be annexed and plundered  ) and the population still believes the propaganda.In reality the Germans were no where close to having one of the best economies in Europe.Their famous army even late in the war could barely pass being 16% mechanized/motorized ,relying mostly on horses for movement and logistics.

And they paid of their WW I debt in 2010.

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## otherone

> WTF are you talking about?


His man-crush.

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## willwash

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.  

Where this film gets it right:

Adolf Hitler was not the comic book villain he's generally made out to be.  Had Germany won the war by knocking out the Soviets in 1941 or 1942, eventually Churchill would have had to come to peace terms with Hitler (who had no interest in conquering Britain) and the US, having never been attacked by Germany, would let it go too (Japan would be another story).  The Jews of Europe would not have been exterminated and the history taught today would be of a victorious crusade against communism by Hitler, a harsh ruler but in the end not such a bad guy.

Where the film gets it wrong, completely leaving aside the "Jewish question":

It severely glosses over significant flaws in National Socialist doctrine like forced euthanasia, big government running the economy, and the injustice of the concept of Lebensraum, and generally treats Hitler like he was infallible.

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## Demigod

> His man-crush.


He is probably the worst leader in German history.Today Germany has a population that is less than 5 million people bigger than what they had in 1939,and more than 10% of it is immigrants.He lost Prussia for Germany + some other territories and he got every German kicked out of Eastern Europe ( millions of people ) .Not to mention the damage he had done from a cultural viewpoint .




> As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.  
> 
> Where this film gets it right:
> 
> Adolf Hitler was not the comic book villain he's generally made out to be.  Had Germany won the war by knocking out the Soviets in 1941 or 1942, eventually Churchill would have had to come to peace terms with Hitler (who had no interest in conquering Britain) and the US, having never been attacked by Germany, would let it go too (Japan would be another story).  The Jews of Europe would not have been exterminated and the history taught today would be of a victorious crusade against communism by Hitler, a harsh ruler but in the end not such a bad guy.
> 
> Where the film gets it wrong, completely leaving aside the "Jewish question":
> 
> It severely glosses over significant flaws in National Socialist doctrine like forced euthanasia, big government running the economy, and the* injustice of the concept of Lebensraum*, and generally treats Hitler like he was infallible.


Yes exterminating entire villages and cities in Eastern Europe is just injustice.6 million Slavs died in the concentration camps and god knows how many would have died if Hitler had won the war.

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## orenbus

> As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.  
> 
> Where this film gets it right:
> 
> Adolf Hitler was not the comic book villain he's generally made out to be.  Had Germany won the war by knocking out the Soviets in 1941 or 1942, eventually Churchill would have had to come to peace terms with Hitler (who had no interest in conquering Britain) and the US, having never been attacked by Germany, would let it go too (Japan would be another story).  The Jews of Europe would not have been exterminated and the history taught today would be of a victorious crusade against communism by Hitler, a harsh ruler but in the end not such a bad guy.
> 
> Where the film gets it wrong, completely leaving aside the "Jewish question":
> 
> It severely glosses over significant flaws in National Socialist doctrine like* forced euthanasia*, big government running the economy, and the injustice of the concept of Lebensraum, and generally treats Hitler like he was infallible.


I'm still going through the video, yes it does make sense that a leader as popular in his own country as Hitler was in Germany would needed to do something to win over the people from some sort of oppressive environment for him to get into power as he did beyond just being an evil comic book figure. The problem is good and evil is subjective depending on how you were born, where you stood, and what you believed in the 20s, 30s, and 40s, not much different than any other period in time or place I suppose.

Anyway when you talk about forced euthanasia are you talking about the T4 program? To be honest I never dug deep into this subject, but it seems this didn't originate with the "jewish question", but instead was considered by the administrators as a merciful death to those suffering of incurable illness or extreme mental issues determined by the state in order to among other things manage the country's welfare budget. This is really concerning, reminds me of the movies Snowpiercer or Gattica, if the Nazi's had won I wonder if this program would have been continued and what it would look like in the future, at least in Germany?



Edit: Curious observation, during the chants at one point it sounds like they are shouting "Sieg Heil!"

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## amy31416

> He was defending the Liberty of his country from the tyrants. Mass murder was just part of going to war and was a result of defending his country. 
> 
> Stop reciting that old communist belief system. It looks bad on you.


Yeah. I'm a commie for thinking that most politicians suck. Brilliant point.

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## RonPaul4Prez2012

> His man-crush.


Not at all but you and the other forums members see to have a big hard on for this guy.

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## otherone

> Not at all but you and the other forums members see to have a big hard on for this guy.


Gosh!
MUST we _choose_ between the two?
Can't we *all* agree that they were BOTH gigantic $#@!s?  Howzabout it, RPP2012?

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## Danke

I hate it when people pick on Hitler, he could have been my son father.

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## osan

> His man-crush.


Marilyn Hitler?

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## willwash

> I'm still going through the video, yes it does make sense that a leader as popular in his own country as Hitler was in Germany would needed to do something to win over the people from some sort of oppressive environment for him to get into power as he did beyond just being an evil comic book figure. The problem is good and evil is subjective depending on how you were born, where you stood, and what you believed in the 20s, 30s, and 40s, not much different than any other period in time or place I suppose.
> 
> Anyway when you talk about forced euthanasia are you talking about the T4 program? To be honest I never dug deep into this subject, but it seems this didn't originate with the "jewish question", but instead was considered by the administrators as a merciful death to those suffering of incurable illness or extreme mental issues determined by the state in order to among other things manage the country's welfare budget. This is really concerning, reminds me of the movies Snowpiercer or Gattica, if the Nazi's had won I wonder if this program would have been continued and what it would look like in the future, at least in Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Curious observation, during the chants at one point it sounds like they are shouting "Sieg Heil!"


Yes I was referring to T4.  I intentionally left out the antisemitism of the regime because that was too big of an issue to take a bite of in my short post.  I was focusing on the fundamental shortcomings of Nazism as a system of government.

As I understand it, T-4 was a program of forced euthanasia for _lebensunwertige_ (or something to that effect, my German is a little rusty), or "life unworthy of life."  This was not employed against Jews, but fully-blooded Germans.  Those with significant disabilities or who would otherwise invariably consume more than they were capable of producing were subject to this program.  It caused a public outcry against it in Germany, and eventually Hitler relented and ended the program.  Most neo-Nazis make a point of pointing out the repeal to illustrate Hitler's "humanity" but I don't remember this particular film covering it.

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## AuH20

> He was defending the Liberty of his country from the tyrants. Mass murder was just part of going to war and was a result of defending his country. 
> 
> Stop reciting that old communist belief system. It looks bad on you.


Hitler wasn't the devil he has been portrayed as, but he certainly wasn't a good guy. He wanted to exterminate/enslave the slavs and take their lands.

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