# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  DHS & FBI Conduct Terror Raids at Multiple Michigan Locations

## sharpsteve2003

Video
Homeland Security, FBI Raids Militias in Multiple States?
YouTube - Homeland Security, FBI Raid Militias in Multiple States 1/2

Part 2
Homeland Security, FBI Raid Militias in Multiple States 2/2
YouTube - Homeland Security, FBI Raid Militias in Multiple States 2/2

Digg it
FBI, Homeland Security Raid Militias in Michigan
http://digg.com/d31MrCE

WXYZ) - The FBI was conducting raids Saturday night at multiple locations in southeast Michigan.

Action News has learned Homeland Security and the Joint Anti-terrorism Task Force is also involved in a major operation.

Federal officials would not say who they were targeting or where, but the FBI has set up a command center at the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Department in Ann Arbor, where they have brought in two satellite trucks and a radio tower.

Agents have also obtained search warrants and multiple arrests have been made.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/FBI-C...MUdtOLzvw.cspx

Update: 6:17am
Apparently they are rounding up militia members...listen in
http://www.militiaradio.com/updated-sitrep/

FBI agents raid Hammond location
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-location.html

Police, federal agents in raids in Sandusky, Huron
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/arti...3435821346.txt

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## Anti Federalist

The scoops are on the way.

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## RideTheDirt

> The scoops are on the way.


Where??

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## dannno

> The scoops are on the way.


YouTube - SOYLENT GREEN dystopia

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## hillbilly123069

You can bet they're going on elsewhere. This is just one that we caught.

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## sharpsteve2003

Bump for Updates added to OP

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## sharpsteve2003

http://www.militiaradio.com/updated-sitrep/



> [04:13]  I just left a shouting match about 20 minutes ago with a little over a hundred militiamen who are on the move right now. The arguement was over not if but rather where to hit them. Trying to calm them down was useless and they are not going to let this lie. They will identify the straglers or pickets first and wipe them out. By what the radiio crew said the recon teams have all of the hiddy holes
> [04:14] …IDed for those they moved in and the group is infiltrating to site as we speak. I hope the locals are smart enough to step out of the way.
> [04:16] this is interesting for we may have live vids from the epicanter as it developes.
> [04:16] …epicenter…

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## tangent4ronpaul

> [04:13] I just left a shouting match about 20 minutes ago with a little over a hundred militiamen who are on the move right now. *The arguement was over not if but rather where to hit them.* Trying to calm them down was useless and *they are not going to let this lie.*


This is going to get ugly.  

-t

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## tangent4ronpaul

The people being picked up were being questioned about who was talking about threats.  10 Democrats and 2 Republicans have reported being threatened re: the Health Care vote and received extra SS protection.  A few congressional offices have had bricks thrown through their windows.  That might be what this is about.

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## MN Patriot

Detroit has a large number of Muslims. Could be related to that.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/22978954/detail.html




> *FBI Conducts Raids In SE Michigan*
> At Least One Person Arrested


The FBI has raided Muslim groups in the past:

Mich. Muslim group to probe mosque leader's death

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## tangent4ronpaul

It's the Militia's.  Every Militia group in the country is going crazy.  The traffic is insane.

-t

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## amy31416

> It's the Militia's.  Every Militia group in the country is going crazy.  The traffic is insane.
> 
> -t


Crap...

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## chudrockz

Could turn out to be nothing, or it could get REALLY bad quick.

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## catdd

[QUOTE=MN Patriot;2616479]"Detroit has a large number of Muslims. Could be related to that."

Don't kid yourself. Those are militias they are targeting, and this is the offensive they've been talking about. Reports of similar raids are coming out of California.

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## torchbearer

did i miss the first shots of the revolution?

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## catdd

> did i miss the first shots of the revolution?


Depends on whether we are going to allow them to pick us off one at a time or not.

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## pcosmar

> did i miss the first shots of the revolution?


Not if you are here posting.

I just got online. will be checking into.

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## torchbearer

> Depends on whether we are going to allow them to pick us off one at a time or not.


a database of people willing to stand up for their rights would be nice.
take a page from bin laden when fighting the despots.

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## chudrockz

You'd think a thing like this would be HUGE news, but a brief look at CNN and Faux News didn't turn up anything. What's up with that, I wonder?

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## pcosmar

They hit a funeral. (they like doing that.) 
6 in custody, some evaded. 
Adrian militia.

Looking for more.

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## catdd

> They hit a funeral. (they like doing that.) 
> 6 in custody, some evaded. 
> Adrian militia.
> 
> Looking for more.


Report came in of a similar raid in CA.   http://wellregulatedamericanmilitias...cting-raids-in

Unconfirmed reports coming in from Indiana and Ohio.

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## phill4paul

Please keep the links coming.

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## pcosmar

> Report came in of a similar raid in CA.   http://wellregulatedamericanmilitias...cting-raids-in


Seems multiple raids in several locations.
They are NOT targeting Muslims. Though that is the speculation on some comments.
One known Patriot, in custody. 

Far to my south. but will be watching.

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## catdd

> Seems multiple raids in several locations.
> They are NOT targeting Muslims. Though that is the speculation on some comments.
> One known Patriot, in custody. 
> 
> Far to my south. but will be watching.


http://mediaelites.com/2010/03/28/fb...-in-ann-arbor/

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## torchbearer

http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/03...naw-fbi-raids/
http://www.wxyz.com/mostpopular/stor...MUdtOLzvw.cspx

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## phill4paul

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-FBI-...chigan-Militia

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## pcosmar

> http://mediaelites.com/2010/03/28/fb...-in-ann-arbor/


Thanks.
Reports that *Hutaree,* is in custody. 
Again, This is an attack on Patriots. Without doubt.
And seems widespread.

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## torchbearer

> Thanks.
> Reports that *Hutaree,* is in custody. 
> Again, This is an attack on Patriots. Without doubt.
> And seems widespread.


So this is how the jews felt in germany when the jackboots were rounding them up.

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## MelissaWV

> Thanks.
> Reports that *Hutaree,* is in custody. 
> Again, This is an attack on Patriots. Without doubt.
> And seems widespread.


Damn.  

You know, I read the thread title, and immediately thought of you.  Glad you're not in a cage or in a morgue, pcos.  

How convenient that, just after the Government is threatened, the Government is carrying out violence on its own people.  Perhaps to have been "fair," they should have just called these homes and threatened to shoot them, or threw bricks through the windows... but no... that's not how Government works.

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## pacelli

Any updates on the status of the Koernke's and co-host Don?

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## pcosmar

> Hardly anybody knows about that, they just know that this militia is all about Jesus, wants to kill cops, hates Jews and possibly even Muslims.
> 
> Nope. These are evil people. No trial necessary. No proof necessary. They have already been convicted in the court of popular opinion.


Sadly, I believe you are correct. This does not bode well for the future.

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## tpreitzel

> Scanning the reaction today, it appears that the general public is buying the story that this raid was all about a plot to kill swaths of police officers.  Doesn't add up to me.


Certainly no concrete evidence, i.e. a dead body, in an actual murder charge. If we can't actually provoke 'em to commit murder, we can always charge 'em with "seditious conspiracy" with the _intent_ to commit murder. - Pre-crime mentality of the federal government in attempt to silence opposition to their fascism

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## GunnyFreedom

> Hardly anybody knows about that, they just know that this militia is all about Jesus, wants to kill cops, hates Jews and possibly even Muslims.
> 
> Nope. These are evil people. No trial necessary. No proof necessary. They have already been convicted in the court of popular opinion.


Except, of course, for the fact that even a cursory unbiased investigation would reveal that everything there past the word "Jesus" would seem to be a product of fabrication...

Nahhhh, our fed.gov and bought media wouldn't lie to us...

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## dwdollar

Are there any specific allegations?  Or just generalized sh*t that all of us get be accused of?

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## Old Ducker

Speaking to Shepard Smith,  Andrea Harsh claims he was, among other things, a "big Ron Paul supporter."  To his credit, Smith asked her why that mattered and she had no answer.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Certainly no concrete evidence, i.e. a dead body.


Nor, apparently, were any attempts made to carry out the alleged plan.  _If there were_ such a plan, then the _proper_ course of action would be to identify those involved in it, securing and acting on probable cause and a proper judicial warrant - surveil them, observe them setting up the initial ambush, and then descend upon them like angels of the apocalypse when they make the 911 call to lure their victim.  All of which could have been accomplished without abrogating the Constitution, and thereby not imperiling their liberties if in fact there was no such plot being seriously entertained.

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## raiha

Yikes he's a Ron Paul fanatic!!! Goodbye 2012

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## Dojo

OH S**T................... (FOX NEWS)  Suspects ex fiancee (Andrea Harsh) on phone and just said the leader was a "Ron Paul" fanatic.

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## Pizzo

Ok, I didn't hear it for myself, and don't know if anyone else did.  But my fiance just came in and tells me that Shepherd Smith was interviewing one of the men's ex fiance's, and she described them as "Ron Paul fanatics".  Sounds like some smearing going on to me.  I'll try to rewind on the dvr to see if i can get the quote myself.

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## moostraks

> Nor, apparently, were any attempts made to carry out the alleged plan.  _If there were_ such a plan, then the _proper_ course of action would be to identify those involved in it, securing and acting on probable cause and a proper judicial warrant - surveil them, observe them setting up the initial ambush, and then descend upon them like angels of the apocalypse when they make the 911 call to lure their victim.  All of which could have been accomplished without abrogating the Constitution, and thereby not imperiling their liberties if in fact there was no such plot being seriously entertained.


Which belies the question how do they get charged with an attempted anything???

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## GunnyFreedom

> Are there any specific allegations?  Or just generalized sh*t that all of us get be accused of?


The indictment mentions a specific plan to lure an officer in on a 911 call and kill them, and then rain death and hell down on the police who attend the funeral; allegedly in the hopes of sparking a larger anti-establishment civil war.

Mind you, that plan does not make any sense whatsoever, as it would clearly and obviously have the exact opposite effect of the groups proposed mission.

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## dannno

> Are there any specific allegations?  Or just generalized sh*t that all of us get be accused of?


I put my $$ on an informant for the government bringing these 'facts' to authorities.. Or several.

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## moostraks

> OH S**T................... (FOX NEWS)  Suspects ex fiancee (Andrea Harsh) on phone and just said the leader was a "Ron Paul" fanatic.


oh noes....

How could we not see this coming? ( )

Unbelievable

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## dannno

> OH S**T................... (FOX NEWS)  Suspects ex fiancee (Andrea Harsh) on phone and just said the leader was a "Ron Paul" fanatic.


......

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## GunnyFreedom

> OH S**T................... (FOX NEWS)  Suspects ex fiancee (Andrea Harsh) on phone and just said the leader was a "Ron Paul" fanatic.


Yup, it's already getting kicked around by the hater brigades on Twitter

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## Dojo

At least Shep Smith asked......what does that have to do with anything?

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## GunnyFreedom

PS -- this is one reason why I will ONLY marry a lady Ron Pauler.

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## TheState

> At least Shep Smith asked......what does that have to do with anything?


Go Shep Smith!

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## raiha

Great Just great! it'll be all over the news. Now what?

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## Pizzo

Yep, just following up my previous post.  The woman's name was Andrea harsh, she didn't have a very flattering description of her ex at all, calling him violent, obsessed with guns and wanting to kill anyone, which seems strange to me, considering it doesn't appear he is involved in any violent crimes.  Color me confused.  She proceeded to say he was very worried about losing his second amendmant rights, and after Obama was elected he "lost it" because he was a "Ron Paul fanatic".  Shep asks her "What does Ron Paul have to do with anything".  She replied I don't know, but i guess he (her ex) wants more freedom to do anything he wants ( not an exact quote, sorry).  She also said she didnt see how Ron Paul would be any different, so we are clearly dealing with an intellectual sumo wrestler here.  To me she just sounded like a bitter ex.

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## pcosmar

> At least Shep Smith asked......what does that have to do with anything?


Because it is in the script.

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## dannno

Help to destroy the media's credibility with average Americans so they stop buying this bull$#@!.

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## Pizzo

> Because it is in the script.




Honestly, the interview did seem a little late night talk showish to me, meaning Shep knew what she would say before he even asked the question.  but I'm pretty sure pre interviewing is standard, so I'm sure he did.

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## MelissaWV

The militia head was also male, of a certain age, from a certain geographical region, was or wasn't a vegetarian, had guns, was of a certain height and weight...  

It was one guy's ex-fiancee.  Not even wife, but fiancee.  She decided to spit it out there as venom, and it didn't stick.  I would assume one of the things that "can be done" is not to start half a dozen different threads about it, but even as I type this, it grows late for such precautions.

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## RileyE104

YouTube..?

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## pcosmar

> The militia head was also male, of a certain age, from a certain geographical region, was or wasn't a vegetarian, had guns, was of a certain height and weight...  
> 
> It was one guy's ex-fiancee.  Not even wife, but fiancee.  She decided to spit it out there as venom, and it didn't stick.  I would assume one of the things that "can be done" is not to start half a dozen different threads about it, but even as I type this, it grows late for such precautions.


This story is being watched closely by militia leaders and members from all across the nation.
All information is being gathered analyzed and disseminated by several sites and radio.

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## Dojo

KUDOS to the thread merger !!!

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## MelissaCato

> The federal government is arming many of its agencies, IRS, DOE, others. Like they are gearing up for a rebellion.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if they are monitoring all of these forums, see how much sympathy they get, how many people are actively interested in the erosion of our liberties.


Well if they are monitoring all this ... I hope they realize who's side the US Constitution is on.  

What they are actually doing is pissing off all the right people in my opinion. 
Maybe it's for the best. Look at all the people after Katrina they pissed off.

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## Baptist

> I put my $$ on an informant for the government bringing these 'facts' to authorities.. Or several.


Or the informant infiltrated their group, drew up the plans last week, and now they are all raided.

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## MelissaWV

> This story is being watched closely by militia leaders and members from all across the nation.
> All information is being gathered analyzed and disseminated by several sites and radio.


I hope no one ever interviews my ex about me.  

It's our country's insatiable tabloid appetite, and they're eating this up like candy.  All the details will blur until it's just 'those gun-totin' kooks' versus the kindly good little sheep.  I'm not worried about the Ron Paul detail.  

As time goes by, I have decreasing faith in our nation's populace.  One look at the comments left at any of these stories, and the utter lack of intelligence and free-thinking hits you like the stench of a dirty diaper.

Behind me, at work, two people are giggling about liking plants, and what shoes go best with their outfits, and how many calories are in 1/3 of a donut (the math is, apparently, very difficult).  Unlike some who have grand ideas about fighting to free everyone, I just want the freedom for people to enslave themselves over there ---->  while I am allowed to be a merry hermit someplace entirely different. 

Worrying what they think about the truth isn't really that high on my list of priorities, so long as it's the truth.  If this guy loved Ron Paul, so what?  *shrugs*

Edit:  To further my point... this story is on Yahoo's front page... but so is "Tips on How to Load your Dishwasher."

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## Elle

So will this be a trial by jury?  Will the trial be held in Detroit?  If so, I may just buy one of those $100 houses in hopes of being called for jury duty.

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## dwdollar

It doesn't matter.  This isn't the 1990's where one interview can change a mass of opinions.

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## GunnyFreedom

Well, I for one am and always have been committed to a peaceful, political solution.  Otherwise I would not be running for State House.  However, I strongly suspect that does not matter to may of these cretins who would see any attempt to restore the Constitutional Order -- peaceful or otherwise -- as a "threat" to their power base which needs to be dealt with, violently or otherwise.  Mind you, I have no doubt that there are some amongst them who would welcome a reestablishment of the Constitutional order, but I fear that they are few and far between.  What force I have access to will be used purely in the defense, according to the description laid out for "perfect self defense" according to North Carolina State law.  Self-defense, however, seems to offend some of these cretins to the point where they want to make it a capital crime.

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## GunnyFreedom

> I hope no one ever interviews my ex about me.  
> 
> It's our country's insatiable tabloid appetite, and they're eating this up like candy. All the details will blur until it's just 'those gun-totin' kooks' versus the kindly good little sheep. I'm not worried about the Ron Paul detail. 
> 
> _As time goes by, I have decreasing faith in our nation's populace._ One _look at the comments left at any of these stories_, and the utter lack of intelligence and free-thinking hits you like the stench of a dirty diaper.
> 
> Behind me, at work, two people are giggling about liking plants, and what shoes go best with their outfits, and how many calories are in 1/3 of a donut (the math is, apparently, very difficult). Unlike some who have grand ideas about fighting to free everyone, I just want the freedom for people to enslave themselves over there ----> while I am allowed to be a merry hermit someplace entirely different. 
> 
> Worrying what they think about the truth isn't really that high on my list of priorities, so long as it's the truth. If this guy loved Ron Paul, so what? *shrugs*
> ...


Yeah, no kidding.  Here lately I have been watching the commentary left behind this and several other stories, such as the passage of Obamacare, and I am slowly becoming convinced that nothing will effect these morons until the entire nation collapses crashes and burns in a flaming ruin of their own ignorant creation.  Perhaps then, and only then it will occur to them out of pure self interest that what we have been doing the last 100 years has not been very wise.




> __________________
> 				No, my avatar is not me.


Of course not, we all know that you are in truth 1000x more attractive than any of your avatars have been.     :hides:

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## jkr

...take OFF the stickers...


tear down the wall.

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## fedup100

This thing is very simple.  The people were set up and every bit of the spew out of the agencies and the so controlled media is a bald faced lie. These people will go away for along time for nothing.

The real story here, and the message is the same one that has been used for years because it is so effective.

They are warning every citizen, DO NOT TRY IN ANY WAY TO STOP US, we will demonize and kill you if you do.

They are puffing up their size and abilities, just like a puffin adder,  in order to make sure their enemy cannot see that they are dramatically out numbered and would not have  a chance in hell of defeating the people without nuking every city.

They must keep that fact hidden through this type of bloviating and intimidation.  Sadly, they are unaware that at the very least, 30% or more of the population isn't buying it any longer.  This miscalculation could have dire affects.

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## Dojo

Battle lines being drawn................ (Now please FEDS and girls on The View... Don't take that literally!)

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## jkr

...take OFF the stickers...

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## phill4paul

So many divergent stories and accusations. Muslims or cops? I guess they went for the cop angle because the neocons hate the Muslims. But, now that everyone loves bigger government then accusations of violence against boys in blue would get better play in the media.

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## Pericles

I assume it is a low key operation to keep millions of gun owners from getting excited that they may be next.

If it keeps up, at some point, someone is going to let a round loose.....

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## sharpsteve2003

Alex Jones interview with one of the arrested Militia members?

PDF of Idictment with "Pale Horse" as defendant D8
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se.../0329stone.pdf

"Pale Horse" on Alex Jones Tv 1/4:Is Pale Horse Real? You Be The Judge!!
TheAlexJonesChannel August 17, 2009

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## phill4paul

> Alex Jones interview with one of the arrested Militia members?
> 
> PDF of Idictment with "Pale Horse" as defendant D8
> http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se.../0329stone.pdf
> 
> "Pale Horse" on Alex Jones Tv 1/4:Is Pale Horse Real? You Be The Judge!!
> TheAlexJonesChannel August 17, 2009


  Could any of "The general concept" have been mentioned with regard that "If" or "when" the u.S. abolished its Constitution or allowed itself to be controlled by an NWO then they might......?

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## Dojo

> Alex Jones interview with one of the arrested Militia members?
> 
> PDF of Idictment with "Pale Horse" as defendant D8
> http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se.../0329stone.pdf
> 
> "Pale Horse" on Alex Jones Tv 1/4:Is Pale Horse Real? You Be The Judge!!
> TheAlexJonesChannel August 17, 2009


WOW.... Could be him, says he trained in MI.

Did Alex mention this guy today?

YouTube - "Pale Horse" on Alex Jones Tv 1/4:Is Pale Horse Real? You Be The Judge!!

YouTube - "Pale Horse" on Alex Jones Tv 2/4:Is Pale Horse Real? You Be The Judge!!

Well if this pale horse is the same one in the indictment..... Alex is psychic

YouTube - "Pale Horse" on Alex Jones Tv 3/4:Is Pale Horse Real? You Be The Judge!!

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## phill4paul

I'm still not getting how the charges can stick. We'll I do, but, not in my mind. 
   I could see if law enforcement had caught wind of a plot to attack local police forces and set up a sting with this information. I still do not see where these individuals actually ACTED on it.

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## pcosmar

> I'm still not getting how the charges can stick. We'll I do, but, not in my mind. 
>    I could see if law enforcement had caught wind of a plot to attack local police forces and set up a sting with this information. I still do not see where these individuals actually ACTED on it.


It's a Conspiracy *Theory*.

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## sharpsteve2003

More about "Pale Horse"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...00ccwD9EOIHMG0



> The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.
> 
> "It consisted of a dad and two of his sons and I think just a couple other close friends of theirs," said Kelly Sickles, who husband, Kristopher, was among those charged. "It was supposed to be a Christian group. Christ-like, right, so why would you think that's something wrong with that, right?"
> 
> Sickles said she came home Saturday night to find her house in Sandusky, Ohio, in disarray. Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, but added: "He doesn't even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here."
> 
> She said she couldn't believe her 27-year-old husband could be involved in anything violent.
> 
> "It was just survival skills," she said. "That's what they were learning. And it's just patriotism. It's in our Constitution."

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## Anti Federalist

> It's a Conspiracy *Theory*.


That's all it takes to convict you.

Deniers won't even acknowledge the concept.

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## phill4paul

> It's a Conspiracy *Theory*.


  Sigh. Yeah. I suppose it will come out in court. Seems to me at least in the warrant there should have been a "where as "so and so" bought explosives from an undercover agent or whereas an automatic firearm was video taped in the possession of "so and so" authorities decided to execute these warrants,,,blah, blah, blah."
  It's a witch hunt. IMHO.

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## phill4paul

> More about "Pale Horse"
> 
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...00ccwD9EOIHMG0


The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.




> "It consisted of a dad and two of his sons and I think just a couple other close friends of theirs," said Kelly Sickles, who husband, Kristopher, was among those charged. "It was supposed to be a Christian group. *Christ-like, right, so why would you think that's something wrong with that, right?"*
> 
> Sickles said she came home Saturday night to find her house in Sandusky, Ohio, in disarray. *Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, but added: "He doesn't even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here."*
> 
> She said she couldn't believe her 27-year-old husband could be involved in anything violent.
> 
> "It was just survival skills," she said. "That's what they were learning. *And it's just patriotism. It's in our Constitution."*



  Doubt we'll see that on Faux News.

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## Baptist

> So many divergent stories and accusations. Muslims or cops? I guess they went for the cop angle because the neocons hate the Muslims. But, now that everyone loves bigger government then accusations of violence against boys in blue would get better play in the media.


That's what I was thinking.  First they said the group was going to target Muslims, now cops.

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## Old Dragon

> That's what I was thinking.  First they said the group was going to target Muslims, now cops.



The course for the future is definitely

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## pcosmar

Ok guys,
Check this out and see if it makes as much sense to you as it does to me.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...sus-belli.html





> Simply put: As a matter of law, a citizen has an unqualified right to use lethal force to defend himself against a criminal assault by a law enforcement officer. This is not "sedition"; it's stare decisis.


A good analysis.

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## phill4paul

9th suspect just captured in Michigan. Fox News.

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## pcosmar

> 9th suspect just captured in Michigan. Fox News.


Whew.
I'm still here. I'm OK.

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## Anti Federalist

> Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. Thus the indictment's description of Hutaree as "an anti-government extremist organization which advocates violence against local, state and Federal law enforcement" is a product of rhetorical onanism.


http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...sus-belli.html

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## Reason

YouTube - Feds: Militia Wanted to Kill Police, Plant Bombs

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## Reason

YouTube - Hutaree Viewed Warily by Other Mich. Militia

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## Anti Federalist

> During a 1997 visit to the Battle Command Training Program at Ft. Leavenworth, author Robert Kaplan frequently heard "discussion of the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids the National Guard to act as a local police force once it has been federalized by the army in a civil emergency," he recalled in his book An Empire Wilderness. "The implication was that turbulence within the United States might one day require the act to be repealed."
> 
> 
> Kaplan describes a round-table discussion of potential military action against domestic dissident groups. One Marine Major, referring to the Oklahoma City Bombing (an atrocity carried out by a former federal employee and "others" who remain "unknown"), declared: "The minute I heard about Oklahoma City, I knew who did it -- rednecks, the kind of guys from southern Idaho."
> 
> 
> 
> According to Kaplan, that officer and another of the same rank "suggested that `a time might come when the military will have to go domestic.'"
> 
> ...


http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...sus-belli.html

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## phill4paul

> Whew.
> I'm still here. I'm OK.


  LOLZ. Thank goodness. And good find above. 

  They say that the military has played out every conceivable scenario. Were any of those scenarios seditious?

----------


## pcosmar

> [url=http://s[/url]


Screw the propaganda.
Look at the LAW.
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.txt



> *
> Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest*
> 
> Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting 
> officer's life if necessary. Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This 
> premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the 
> case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: Where the 
> officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally 
> accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with 
> ...

----------


## pcosmar

> [url=http://www.yoa[/url]


As discussed elsewhere , and very visible here. Some people Hate Christians.
That was exactly the case in the Michigan Militia. Someone did not like them for their Christian beliefs. So They Turned Snitch to the Feds. 
I for one am highly disappointed, I have pointed to the MM as an example before. 
This was a let down.

----------


## Reason

YouTube - Raided Militia Planned On Killing Cops! Militia Member's Girl Friend Andrea Harsh Interviewed

----------


## pcosmar

> [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lspt9Kq3PaA]YouTube - /url]


What is with the rehashed propaganda,  This was already  posted and discussed.

The disgruntled *Ex* girlfriend is getting her day in the spotlight trash talking.
So what if he was a Ron Paul supporter? Most militia are. He believed in the Constitution and wanted it restored.

----------


## RCA

n/m

----------


## Anti Federalist

> What is with the rehashed propaganda,  This was already  posted and discussed.
> 
> The disgruntled *Ex* girlfriend is getting her day in the spotlight trash talking.
> So what if he was a Ron Paul supporter? Most militia are. He believed in the Constitution and wanted it restored.


Agreed.

I'd vote for a merge.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> n/m


Not fast enough...

----------


## GunnyFreedom

definitely a bitter ex-girlfriend using the public stage for revenge, IMHO.  Not sure having a half dozen separate threads on this is a good idea...

----------


## RCA

> Not fast enough...


lol

----------


## 2young2vote

Well, if the authorities can present proof that the militia group intended to do harm, then I suppose they could have done a good thing.  But until they can prove it then they need to be careful or they may get some other people or groups mad.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Pretty obvious what all this is about.

They need some high profile cases to start ramping up support for a new "assault" weapon ban.

Hellthcare is out of the way, now, moving on...

Waco was supposed to do that, and bring more funding to ATF.

Didn't work out that way...

----------


## AuH20

It's been corroborated that they had an undercover Fed living among them for about a year and a half as we had guessed.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

I still say spawning half a dozen threads on this is a bad idea...

----------


## dwdollar

> Whew.
> I'm still here. I'm OK.


*Yep!  I feel much better now that these monsters are off the streets...*





*And this thing is rolling down AMERICAN STREETS to save me...*





*Yep...  <coughs...>*

----------


## sharpsteve2003

The Strange Case of Kristopher Sickles and the Hutaree Militia 
One of the men arrested in the FBI and Homeland Security raids on the Hutaree Militia in Michigan last weekend appeared on the Alex Jones Show in 2009 after it was widely suspected he was a government operative.

http://www.infowars.com/the-strange-...taree-militia/

----------


## Romulus

Like I said.. she sounds more like a plant, and less like a g/f if you ask me.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> _Six Michigan residents, two Ohioans and an Indianan were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, U.S. Attorney Barbara L. McQuade and FBI Special Agent in Charge Andrew Arena announced._
> 
> Since when is teaching the use of explosive materials a crime?  Obama's safe schools czar can teach kids how to fist each other but someone can't give a lecture about how explosives work?  I want to see the indictment.


I'm pretty sure it's in the 1968 Gun Control Act.  Someone asked the same question, and the person making the reply didn't give refs, but google found this:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2482249/replies?c=36

Teaching the use of explosive materials is only a crime under federal law if the teacher intends that the teaching, demonstration, or information be used for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence or if the teacher knows that the student intends to use it for such a purpose.

A crime of violence is (a) an offense that has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or prop erty of another, or (b) any other offense that is a felony and that, by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.

Seditious conspiracy is conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.

Basically, in order to make any of this stick, the prosecution will have to prove that these people were planning to commit some actual act of violence. Now, it certainly isnt above a U.S. Attorney to go on a witch hunt, but they tend not to prosecute crimes they cant get a conviction on - their conviction rate is much higher than most state DAs offices for a reason.

----------


## chudrockz

> I still say spawning half a dozen threads on this is a bad idea...


For those of us who are less web-savvy than others, can you explain why?

----------


## Anti Federalist

Another Federal Set-Up
Posted by Lew Rockwell on March 29, 2010 07:19 PM

Today, the vast and wealthy DC Militia did what it loves doing most, swooping in to arrest Americans talked into dangerous talking. Apparently the 101st Airborne was not involved in the mopping-up operation, though I am not sure. Who can doubt that the nine people arrested were talked into their exploits (of speech, not action) by agents provocateurs? The media are all googly over it—Christian militia members planning to use WMD (oh sure) to overthrow the government. Too bad the nine did not pay attention to what Jesus said about the use of the sword, but did pay attention to agents counseling violence. But again, all the Michigan Nine did was talk: these guys had a website, and played in the woods. Rachel Maddow of MS-GE delightedly explained tonight that those arrested did not actually have to do anything to be found guilty. So these working-class Americans are to be put in super-max government cages for the rest of their lives, except when they are being raped or treated in the single-payer prison medical system, for “seditious conspiracy,” a concept beloved of totalitarian regimes.

UPDATE from Eli Cryderman:

    Isn’t it ironic that the government can criminally charge citizens with ‘conspiracy’ (an agreement or a partnership, not an action), but when a citizen even mentions that there is ample evidence (provided by the government’s own documents) that the government can and does conspire to commit and does commit various felonies, they are mocked, vilified, and labeled as kooks?

    When the government came for militia, I remained silent; I was not militia.
    When they locked up the religious conservatives, I remained silent; I was an atheist.
    When they came for the bloggers, I remained silent; I was not a blogger.
    When they came for the Muslims, I remained silent; I was not Muslim.
    When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

----------


## Dojo

> Another Federal Set-Up
> Posted by Lew Rockwell on March 29, 2010 07:19 PM
> 
> Today, the vast and wealthy DC Militia did what it loves doing most, swooping in to arrest Americans talked into dangerous talking. Apparently the 101st Airborne was not involved in the mopping-up operation, though I am not sure. Who can doubt that the nine people arrested were talked into their exploits (of speech, not action) by agents provocateurs? The media are all googly over itChristian militia members planning to use WMD (oh sure) to overthrow the government. Too bad the nine did not pay attention to what Jesus said about the use of the sword, but did pay attention to agents counseling violence. But again, all the Michigan Nine did was talk: these guys had a website, and played in the woods. Rachel Maddow of MS-GE delightedly explained tonight that those arrested did not actually have to do anything to be found guilty. So these working-class Americans are to be put in super-max government cages for the rest of their lives, except when they are being raped or treated in the single-payer prison medical system, for seditious conspiracy, a concept beloved of totalitarian regimes.
> 
> UPDATE from Eli Cryderman:
> 
>     Isnt it ironic that the government can criminally charge citizens with conspiracy (an agreement or a partnership, not an action), but when a citizen even mentions that there is ample evidence (provided by the governments own documents) that the government can and does conspire to commit and does commit various felonies, they are mocked, vilified, and labeled as kooks?
> 
> ...


AGREED............ Seems to me there would be a "Conspiracy to commit murder" charge if there was an ACTUAL plan to commit murder. Looks more like they are guilty of having dangerous ideas. FEDS are just drawning NEW battle lines. Now we can't cross THIS line.

----------


## catdd

"So these working-class Americans are to be put in super-max government cages for the rest of their lives"


Which will force other militia to fight till their last breath because no one would want to be taken in alive under those conditions.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> For those of us who are less web-savvy than others, can you explain why?


Google rankings and search hits; the fewer incidences of "crazy militia get's hammered by FBI" attached to the name "Ron Paul" (even if the attachment is spurious at best) the better.  These are the people who in 2012 we will be working to erase disinfo and misconceptions.

----------


## torchbearer

Ok, so i'm reading articles now that claim these NINE people were going to war against the U.S.
Nine person army versus the US military machine, and this is view as a severe threat. (let's asssume for the sake of argument it is their true intent)
I'm not really seeing the threat posed here. It would be laughable at best to see nine people with pipe bombs try to overthrow the government. the feds whole story is $#@!ing laughable.

They get the local cops behind them by telling them, these people are planning to attack you.
Then they change the story to- these people were planning to attack the U.S., to get the general population behind them.

Then all the media reports are the accusations of one side of this story as facts, leaving all the readers with an instant judgement of guilt.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

It started at attacking Muslims to get CAIR involved, bumped over for a minute to attacking the DNC to get the SPLC and the ADL involved, progressed to police to get the Conservatives involved, and ends on the US to get the people at large involved.  Yeah, this wasn't engineered at all...

----------


## tod evans

conspiracy is a wicked charge just as is the 924c.........
talking is enough to convict on conspiracy....
as for 924c even if a "firearm" is non-functional a person can (and many have been) convicted if the feds can tie any other "crime" to the person who has access to said "firearm"....
first offence of 924c is a mandatory 60 months and may not run concurrent with any other sentence!
now add to all of this that once the feds indict they have better than a 95% conviction rate.
these poor folks are $#@!ed!

----------


## pcosmar

> these poor folks are $#@!ed!


Correction.
America is $#@!ed.

----------


## Pericles

If you look at your chances in the "fair" trial, the alternative of "wager of battel" could look really attractive.

----------


## catdd

> It started at attacking Muslims to get CAIR involved, bumped over for a minute to attacking the DNC to get the SPLC and the ADL involved, progressed to police to get the Conservatives involved, and ends on the US to get the people at large involved.  Yeah, this wasn't engineered at all...


Tells you they really don't have much of anything on these guys the way they keep making it up as they go along.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Tells you they really don't have much of anything on these guys the way they keep making it up as they go along.


They don't need much of anything.   With the media making sure people are guilty till proven innocent, they don't need to have much to convict a person anymore.

----------


## s35wf

> They don't need much of anything.   With the media making sure people are guilty till proven innocent, they don't need to have much to convict a person anymore.



as soon as they place the trial; others in the area should hit up area with fija.org flyers to help even out the score/jurypool.

----------


## Baptist

WSJ reporting what all of us already knew: an undercover agent was involved in this sting.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopStories

Now let us wait and see if this agent is the one who drew up the plans to attack police.

----------


## pcosmar

> WSJ reporting what all of us already knew: an undercover agent was involved in this sting.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopStories
> 
> Now let us wait and see if this agent is the one who drew up the plans to attack police.


Lets see
Start a conversation
lead and direct the conversation
Record the conversation.
Call the boss, get paid.

----------


## squarepusher

> WSJ reporting what all of us already knew: an undercover agent was involved in this sting.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopStories
> 
> Now let us wait and see if this agent is the one who drew up the plans to attack police.


lol

----------


## revolutionisnow

YouTube - Hutaree "Jewish" Militia was Government planted to stir violence

They had a star of david on their main page but it has been deleted. They also link to World Net Daily and the Jerusalem Post.

http://hutaree.com/info.htm

----------


## pcosmar

> [url=http://www.youtube.com/we[/url]
> 
> They had a star of david on their main page but it has been deleted. They also link to World Net Daily and the Jerusalem Post.
> 
> http://hutaree.com/info.htm


Post a screen shot.
But I have been at that site for the last few days and that is bull$#@!.

Their forum is also infested with all manner of trolls. I suspect the only one with access is in jail.

----------


## speciallyblend

> YouTube - Hutaree "Jewish" Militia was Government planted to stir violence
> 
> They had a star of david on their main page but it has been deleted. They also link to World Net Daily and the Jerusalem Post.
> 
> http://hutaree.com/info.htm


well couldn't you just use a pr service and do a huge press release on it?? spooky if true!! they get you alot of hits . you also get deals on the first pr usually!!

----------


## pcosmar

> well couldn't you just useapr service and do a huge press release on it?? spooky if true!!


Not True.
They are a Christian group. They have had issues with racists and nazi's because they don't hate jews.

----------


## revolutionisnow



----------


## pcosmar

And I have been at their site regularly since this story broke.
http://hutaree.com/
It was posted earlier in this thread.
That simply is not and was not there.
The information page is there, but I don't understand your point. 
No "Star of David".
It's Bull$#@!. What is your point, and why would it matter.

----------


## phill4paul

OK we've had fun debating....

  Only one thing holds true. Family. Friends that one considers family. Neighbors. Neighborhoods, Town, County, State then the Fed.

----------


## revolutionisnow

> And I have been at their site regularly since this story broke.
> http://hutaree.com/
> It was posted earlier in this thread.
> That simply is not and was not there.
> The information page is there, but I don't understand your point. 
> No "Star of David".
> It's Bull$#@!. What is your point, and why would it matter.


I posted the screen shot for you. You can go to their main page right now and see the same thing. Star of David and Worldnetdaily = Zionists

----------


## Baptist

Video removed by user.  Please find the same video and link to it so we can see it.  Thx.


BTW, linking to _Jerusalem Post_ does not mean they are Jewish.  I go to that site every now and then to see what is going on in Israel.

----------


## pcosmar

> Video removed by user.  Please find the same video and link to it so we can see it.  Thx.
> 
> 
> BTW, linking to _Jerusalem Post_ does not mean they are Jewish.  I go to that site every now and then to see what is going on in Israel.


Exactly, 
They also link to several Christian sites as well as news sites.

And they Have a link to Poker Face. 

eta, interesting. From Poker Face site.



> At the present time, Poker Face has no comment on the situation developing/unfolding
> with the Hutaree folks.
> 
> But given the governments track record against we the free, it makes us suspect
> government motives first, not the Hutaree.

----------


## revolutionisnow

The video was just pointing out the same things I screen shot, and also had someones myspace link.

----------


## pcosmar

> The video was just pointing out the same things I screen shot, and also had someones myspace link.


*Oh Hell No.*
You don't want to go there.
 Would you like a copy and paste or a link to discussions at,

http://www.awrm.org/

There was a racist/nazi troll on the Huntree forum by that name.
He was also known and BANNED from AWRM.

Found it,
http://www.awrm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.p...139;p=5#000169



> Member # 7
> 
> 
> This is one of those rare cases where I will have to disagree with JC.
> 
> I have yet to see any hard, factual evidence that they were racist. As a matter of fact they just banned the "Commanding General" of the realsonsofliberty for his attacks on the Jews. Which is the same reason ARM and AWRM banned him. Hutaree makes it clear that as Christians they don't tolerate racial hatred. Their forum "the 'evil' Jew" is kind of an inside joke amongst themselves because outsiders have made fun of their beliefs and trolled their site with anti Jewish crap.

----------


## revolutionisnow

What point are you trying to prove? I mean, it makes since that a zionist run group would not tolerate people who shed light on their crimes. In your own post on the other forum you claim 
"In fact the Forum name itself was a clue. They considered themselves jews by faith."

I'm guessing bashing Muslims or focusing on their crimes is acceptable though, since they link to WND. That is usually the way it goes, the same people that praise and promote Geert Wilders are the same ones that cry antisemite the loudest. The "evil jew" forum name itself is a typical tactic that many zionists use. If people bring up legitimate issues about various crimes zionists are involved in, with actual facts to back up their argument, they will just resort to joking about it and admitting that they are all true, and throw in other ridiculous things like controlling the weather, aliens, or whatever. It is an easy way out to silence actual discussion.

And here is the myspace they were linking to. http://www.myspace.com/dementincarnate

----------


## pcosmar

> What point are you trying to prove? I mean, it makes since that a zionist run group would not tolerate people who shed light on their crimes. In your own post on the other forum you claim 
> "In fact the Forum name itself was a clue. They considered themselves jews by faith."
> 
> I'm guessing bashing Muslims or focusing on their crimes is acceptable though, since they link to WND. That is usually the way it goes, the same people that praise and promote Geert Wilders are the same ones that cry antisemite the loudest. The "evil jew" forum name itself is a typical tactic that many zionists use. If people bring up legitimate issues about various crimes zionists are involved in, with actual facts to back up their argument, they will just resort to joking about it and admitting that they are all true, and throw in other ridiculous things like controlling the weather, aliens, or whatever. It is an easy way out to silence actual discussion.
> 
> And here is the myspace they were linking to. http://www.myspace.com/dementincarnate


So are you,
*"Commanding General" real sons of liberty* 
Or are you just promoting this worthless scumbag.

----------


## revolutionisnow

No I'm not him, just saw his comment on YT. He's not a scumbag though.

----------


## pcosmar

> No I'm not him, just saw his comment on YT. He's not a scumbag though.


Yes he is. 
And a nuisance that has been banned from multiple site for trolling racist crap.

----------


## The Patriot

YouTube - Hutaree 2

----------


## revolutionisnow

> Yes he is. 
> And a nuisance that has been banned from multiple site for trolling racist crap.


Right, I gave the reasons earlier. Muslim bashing = ok. Questioning the self chosen = banned. 

The "Oathkeepers" also banned people from their Ning group after they posted the recent groundbreaking Dr. Alan Sabrosky interview. 


As they say, if you want to control the dissent you lead the dissent.

----------


## pcosmar

> Right, I gave the reasons earlier. Muslim bashing = ok. Questioning the self chosen = banned. 
> 
> The "Oathkeepers" also banned people from their Ning group after they posted the recent groundbreaking Dr. Alan Sabrosky interview. 
> 
> 
> As they say, if you want to control the dissent you lead the dissent.


No, It is just one $#@! with a stick up his butt, making a nuisance of himself.

----------


## VegasPatriot

> So are you,
> *"Commanding General" real sons of liberty* 
> Or are you just promoting this worthless scumbag.


Nice catch!  I think you just bagged yourself a troll.  Anyone supporting this "Commander General" clown either has not done any research on him or... is him.

I have banned this guy from Oath Keepers YT account after he started praising our message... than ranting hate.  He has continued to try and infiltrate our group, here our some of his YT accounts he uses as aliases.

http://www.youtube.com/user/spaceg9
http://www.youtube.com/user/spaced9

Many of his YT accounts have been suspended.  He likes the Sons of Liberty theme

                                 TheSonsOfLiberty1776

This "Commander General of the Sons of Liberty blah blah blah" clown keeps very busy.... too busy.  I have more on him, but I'll stop here for now.




> Right, I gave the reasons earlier. Muslim  bashing = ok. Questioning the self chosen = banned. 
> 
> The "Oathkeepers" also banned people from their Ning group after they  posted the recent groundbreaking Dr. Alan Sabrosky interview. 
> 
> 
> As they say, if you want to control the dissent you lead the  dissent.


LOL, a well known TROLL.  Dude... you are busted.

----------


## Mach

Sorry to interrupt guys... 

I don't remember if this was already linked to in the previous 44 pages  but this is a good read, I like this guy.

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...sus-belli.html
.
.
.

----------


## pcosmar

> Sorry to interrupt guys... 
> 
> I don't remember if this was already linked to in the previous 44 pages  but this is a good read, I like this guy.
> 
> http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...sus-belli.html


Yes it is. and yes it was, but thanks. Needs repeating.
And it seems to make a good case.

----------


## revolutionisnow

> Nice catch!  I think you just bagged yourself a troll.  Anyone supporting this "Commander General" clown either has not done any research on him or... is him.
> 
> I have banned this guy from Oath Keepers YT account after he started praising our message... than ranting hate.  He has continued to try and infiltrate our group, here our some of his YT accounts he uses as aliases.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/spaceg9
> http://www.youtube.com/user/spaced9
> 
> Many of his YT accounts have been suspended.  He likes the Sons of Liberty theme
> 
> ...


Nope not him. But while we are here, do you also run the Oathkeepers ning site? If so why did you ban people who posted the Dr Sabrosky interview? The hardest hitting information in quite some time, the people trying to censor it or ignore it are showing their true colors.

----------


## VegasPatriot

> Nope not him. But while we are here, do you also run the Oathkeepers ning site? If so why did you ban people who posted the Dr Sabrosky interview? The hardest hitting information in quite some time, the people trying to censor it or ignore it are showing their true colors.


But you do associate yourself with him... or do you just agree the hate he spews?

No I do not run OKs ning and I am not an official spokesperson.  I make videos and maintain the OK YT account.  I am familiar with some of the off topic issues on ning.  What don't you understand about staying on topic?  As you should know... Reach, Teach and Inspire.  Simple.  If you want to discuss anything off topic go somewhere else.

----------


## Baptist

> Sorry to interrupt guys... 
> 
> I don't remember if this was already linked to in the previous 44 pages  but this is a good read, I like this guy.
> 
> http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...sus-belli.html
> .
> .
> .


Good article, everyone should read it.  This is exactly why we should never allow secret courts and secret prisons.  I want to see what evidence the government has against these guys.

----------


## revolutionisnow

> But you do associate yourself with him... or do you just agree the hate he spews?
> 
> No I do not run OKs ning and I am not an official spokesperson.  I make videos and maintain the OK YT account.  I am familiar with some of the off topic issues on ning.  What don't you understand about staying on topic?  As you should know... Reach, Teach and Inspire.  Simple.  If you want to discuss anything off topic go somewhere else.


Don't even associate with him, just seen his channels on YT every now and then, and saw his comment about this matter. Which videos of his are "hateful". Let's see some specifics here instead of wild accusations. Like I said, its real interesting how anyone who exposes zionism and the elephant in the room is considered "hateful", but people like Geert Wilders are ok. But you're right, we should get back on topic, and that is how this supposed "Christian" militia group seem to actually be zionists who consider themselves to be Jewish according to pcosmar.

----------


## pcosmar

> Don't even associate with him, just seen his channels on YT every now and then, and saw his comment about this matter. Which videos of his are "hateful". Let's see some specifics here instead of wild accusations. Like I said, its real interesting how anyone who exposes zionism and the elephant in the room is considered "hateful", but people like Geert Wilders are ok. But you're right, we should get back on topic, and that is how this supposed "Christian" militia group seem to actually be zionists who consider themselves to be Jewish according to pcosmar. 
> 
> [/IMG]


*Dude*
The guy is spamming that crap everywhere. "Everybody is a zionist" if they don't *hate* jews.

I AM A JEW by faith in Christ. He is the King of the Jews.

I disagree with the secular government of Israel  (zionist) and I disagree with our support and involvement with their regime. I don't hate jews in general.
I don't hate the people of Israel. They are deceived as are the Americans that think we have a democracy.
I am in full agreement with the Hunaree on this issue.
This guy just spreads his hate everywhere.

----------


## AuH20

9 shot in Washington D.C. Driveby. Damn those angry militia types! 


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010...otings-DC.html

----------


## revolutionisnow

> *Dude*
> The guy is spamming that crap everywhere. "Everybody is a zionist" if they don't *hate* jews.
> 
> I AM A JEW by faith in Christ. He is the King of the Jews.
> 
> I disagree with the secular government of Israel  (zionist) and I disagree with our support and involvement with their regime. I don't hate jews in general.
> I don't hate the people of Israel. They are deceived as are the Americans that think we have a democracy.
> I am in full agreement with the Hunaree on this issue.
> This guy just spreads his hate everywhere.


Jesus was not "king of the jews",  you've very confused, some people accused him of being a rouge political rival (king of JUDEA) in order to have him killed. I'm not going to derail this thread but I would recommend Revelation 2:9, John 8:39, and Matthew 23:27, and also look up the words Judean and Judahite and compare them to the word jew.

----------


## pcosmar

> Jesus was not "king of the jews",  you've very confused, some people accused him of being a rouge political rival (king of JUDEA) in order to have him killed. I'm not going to derail this thread but I would recommend Revelation 2:9, John 8:39, and Matthew 23:27, and also look up the words Judean and Judahite and compare them to the word jew.


Blaa ,bla,bla
Ok we get it. 
You hate jews and enjoy spamming it everywhere .
I argued this with all stripes of Aryans and nazis in prison for years. The same garbage, the same hate filled rheortic.

Now piss off.

----------


## Dojo

http://nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/...cc4c002e0.html


Judge denies bond for Piatek

Hammond man to be transferred to Michigan to face charges with eight others in plot

 Posted: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:41 |

The Hammond man charged in an alleged cop killing sedition plot will remain in the custody of U.S. Marshals pending court proceedings with his eight co-defendants in Michigan.

In a hearing Wednesday, Magistrate Judge Paul Cherry denied defense lawyer Jerry Flynn's request that Thomas Piatek, 46, of Hammond's Robertsdale neighborhood, be released on bond.

Flynn and Piatek did not contest Piatek's transfer to Michigan.

----------


## pcosmar

[Rechecking
eta. I had misread, he was identified BY the informant. (snitch/provocateur)

----------


## Dojo

Associated Press 
Posted Mar 31, 2010 @ 03:02 PM
DETROIT, Mich.  Not guilty pleas have been entered in Michigan on behalf of eight of nine members of a Christian militia that prosecutors claim plotted to kill police officers and kick-start a violent revolution.

The eight were arraigned Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Detroit, including the alleged ringleader, 44-year-old David Brian Stone.

Stone was among nine members of the Hutaree militia arrested after a series of raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio. A court document says an undercover FBI agent and a cooperating witness were part of the federal probe.

The ninth suspect was in court in Indiana, and will be arraigned later in Michigan.

A hearing to determine if theyll be released on bail began Wednesday for Stone and six others. One suspects bond hearing will be Thursday.

----------


## Dojo

> [Rechecking
> eta. I had misread, he was identified BY the informant. (snitch/provocateur)


I was wondering why they would arrest the informant. (snitch/provocateur)?

I notice there was an FBI agent and a cooperating witness

----------


## pcosmar

> I was wondering why they would arrest the informant. (snitch/provocateur)?


Often is arrested with to maintain their cover, then released later. I saw the name and recognized it, but was incorrect in my first reaction. Double checked.
Am suspecting one of the out of state folks though.
Other eyes are investigating too.

----------


## Dojo

*OH............ SO THE AGENT BUILT the expolsives......??? REALLY?*
http://www.newser.com/article/d9epqj...ingleader.html

Prosecutor: FBI agent infiltrated Christian militia, built explosives with alleged ringleader 
Prosecutor: Agent infiltrated Christian militia 

By COREY WILLIAMS and JEFF KAROUB | Associated Press | 7 minutes ago in US 

  A federal prosecutor says an undercover agent infiltrated a Christian militia group that authorities say plotted to incite violent revolt, and that the agent built explosives under the direction of the group's suspected ringleader.

----------


## dannno

> *OH............ SO THE AGENT BUILT the expolsives......??? REALLY?*
> http://www.newser.com/article/d9epqj...ingleader.html
> 
> Prosecutor: FBI agent infiltrated Christian militia, built explosives with alleged ringleader 
> Prosecutor: Agent infiltrated Christian militia 
> 
> By COREY WILLIAMS and JEFF KAROUB | Associated Press | 7 minutes ago in US 
> 
>   A federal prosecutor says an undercover agent infiltrated a Christian militia group that authorities say plotted to incite violent revolt, and that the agent built explosives under the direction of the group's suspected ringleader.



I would be more surprised if the alleged ringleader had anything to do with it at all.

----------


## tmosley

FBI Agent:  Let's build explosives!
Militia member: Pfft, whatever dude, it's your funeral.
FBI Agent: You're under arrest!
Militia member: WTF!?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> *OH............ SO THE AGENT BUILT the expolsives......??? REALLY?*
> http://www.newser.com/article/d9epqj...ingleader.html
> 
> Prosecutor: FBI agent infiltrated Christian militia, built explosives with alleged ringleader 
> Prosecutor: Agent infiltrated Christian militia 
> 
> By COREY WILLIAMS and JEFF KAROUB | Associated Press | 7 minutes ago in US 
> 
>   A federal prosecutor says an undercover agent infiltrated a Christian militia group that authorities say plotted to incite violent revolt, and that the agent built explosives under the direction of the group's suspected ringleader.


Are we seeing a pattern here yet folks?

----------


## tod evans

> I would be more surprised if the alleged ringleader had anything to do with it at all.


knowledge =  conspiracy

so if billy-bob knew, even after the fact, that the snitch talked about "stuff" then he may be held liable for being a co-conspirator with the snitch..

----------


## tod evans

> Are we seeing a pattern here yet folks?


been happening in fedville for well over 20yrs that i know of..

----------


## Anti Federalist

Well, what the hell do you know about that...

*CIA can withhold records on Oklahoma City bombing*
Federal court » Judge says documents are exempt from disclosure
By Pamela Manson

The Salt Lake Tribune

Updated: 03/30/2010 05:43:38 PM MDT

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14786362?source=email

A federal judge in Utah says the Central Intelligence Agency can withhold documents on the Oklahoma City bombing investigation and prosecution, agreeing that the records were properly withheld for national security and other reasons. 

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups *reveals for the first time that the CIA worked with the Department of Justice on the bombing probe*, according to Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who requested the records under the federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). 

Twelve documents connected to the investigation were at issue, including an April 20, 1995, cable that outlines a prosecutor's attempt to extradite an "organized crime figure from another country." Other records include cables sent in April and May 1995 relaying information provided to a U.S. ambassador by a foreign official; information from a "foreign liason contact" that is classified as secret; *and information from a foreign government about the possible identification of a suspect in the bombing*. 

The general descriptions were provided by the CIA in refusing Trentadue's FOIA requests for documents on potential involvement of foreign nationals in the attack. The lawyer -- who received some documents with only the name of the agency to which they were directed and others that were withheld entirely -- argues in his suit that the dozen documents should have been released to him.

----------


## tpreitzel

The corruption of our legal system stinks to high heaven. Judges "rule" with seeming impunity that the federal government has some unquestionable right to hide behind the ruse of "national security". 

Personally, I'm sick of it. Individual states don't need any more justification or evidence for seceding from this unholy union. IMO, the second Civil War is already in progress. We're simply in the initial states, e.g. nullification of unconstitutional federal legislation. Even the masses are beginning to sense the need for selecting a side in this Civil War. Daily, I hear people muttering about the federal government and the need for all of the guns and these people are common folk... everywhere. 

Does anyone want to publicly speculate about the name of the FBI informant?  I have my guess.

----------


## pcosmar

> Does anyone want to publicly speculate about the name of the FBI informant?  I have my guess.


The guy that was going to meet up with the Ky. militias. The one that reportedly didn't make it.
Someone in Ky. knows who this is.

----------


## Pericles

> FBI Agent:  Let's build explosives!
> Militia member: Pfft, whatever dude, it's your funeral.
> FBI Agent: You're under arrest!
> Militia member: WTF!?


+1

----------


## Dojo

Not sure how accurate, I never heard of this source but................

http://www.$#@!france.com/topic/3669...html&replies=5





The bail hearing is in recess, and here are some reports from it so far..


Stones speech was clandestinely recorded on Feb. 6 in a vehicle as members of the group were headed to Kentucky for a meeting with other militia groups, the prosecutor said, adding that Stones remarks were part of a speech he planned to deliver at a gathering in Kentucky. 

According to prosecutors, on the way back from Kentucky, David Stone Sr. pointed out a Hudson, Mich., police officer who had pulled someone over and said: Were going to pop him, guaranteed.

Someone else in the van mentioned the Hudson police department was a small force, prompting a reply from Stone: Well pop every one of them.

The new information about the group came out during the detention hearing at the federal courthouse in Detroit in which Scheer is to decide whether the eight are to remain jailed pending trial. A ninth member of the group appeared Tuesday in federal court in Indiana and was to be transferred to Michigan.

Several members of the group are charged with seditious conspiracy, use of weapons of mass destruction, and knowingly transferring arms used in violent crimes. 

Newly court-appointed defense lawyers repeatedly objected to Waterstreets allegations made during the hearing. The defense lawyers said the government should be forced to put an agent on the witness stand, and subject to cross-examination, so the magistrate could more thoroughly weigh the credibility of the claims. 

Scheer repeatedly overruled such objections. 

Stones lawyer, William Swor, of Detroit sought to mitigate the governments claims, arguing, All theyre saying is my client has opinions and knows how to use his mouth. 

Swor argued that Waterstreet had presented no evidence of a crime or justification for the magistrate to conclude that the defendants represented a danger to the community or a risk of flight if they were released. 

It is not yet clear who the agent was who infiltrated the group or how he apparently gained the groups confidence. 

During the weekend raids at Stones home, agents seized more than 300 pieces of evidence, including explosives, bomb components and shrapnel, Waterstone said. 

The hearing is under way. Both sides are in a brief recess.

----------


## tpreitzel

> Newly court-appointed defense lawyers repeatedly objected to Waterstreet’s allegations made during the hearing. The defense lawyers said the government should be forced to put an agent on the witness stand, and subject to cross-examination, so the magistrate could more thoroughly weigh the credibility of the claims. 
> 
> Scheer repeatedly overruled such objections.


Need a different judge, i.e. one who forces the FBI to put their man on the stand for all the world to see and hear as he's grilled by lawyers for the defense.  The legal system is basically comprised of cowards. If you're going to be a snitch, at least have the balls and integrity to accept the _possible_ ramifications... but then, no one with integrity or balls would be a snitch in the first place.

----------


## pcosmar

> Need a different judge, i.e. one who forces the FBI to put their man on the stand for all the world to see and hear.  The legal system is basically comprised of cowards. If you're going to be a snitch, at least have the balls and integrity to accept the _possible_ ramifications... but then, no one with integrity or balls would be a snitch in the first place.


I would also be interested in the "terms of employment".
as in , How much was it was worth if he found nothing.

----------


## tpreitzel

> I would also be interested in the "terms of employment".
> as in , How much was it was worth if he found nothing.


Really, I suspect a bonus of "some sort" was involved as an inducement for such a "risky" mission. Maybe, the informant is being prepared for US AG.

----------


## jclay2

This story is getting worse by the day. Makes me wonder if there is some fbi spy on rpf trying to instigate violence just to make an arrest. I think it would be prudent to be extremely cautious when anyone meets other members of the liberty movement. How can you tell if they are wolves in sheeps clothing? Anyone else had similar feelings?

----------


## JK/SEA

Thats the whole purpose of these bull$#@! raids. To keep you in check by using FEAR. Probably works on some, and others not so much. At this stage of the game, i'm more fearful for my kids future than i am about being ratted out for waving the Gadsden flag and shouting FREEDOM!...

----------


## Dr.3D

What ever happened to being able to confront one's accuser?   I thought that was part of the law.

----------


## pcosmar

> What ever happened to being able to confront one's accuser?   I thought that was part of the law.


Used to be I'm told. Long ago.
I am in fact surprised they are getting a trial (if that is what it is called)
Sealed warrants, secret witnesses amd military tribunals, seem to be the latest fashion.

----------


## revolutionisnow

> Does anyone want to publicly speculate about the name of the FBI informant?  I have my guess.


All of the suspects are in prison garb except for one.

----------


## Dojo

More from Stone's "Speech"   Full article: http://www.9news.com/news/world/arti...5724&catid=347





> "We are the American military. We outnumber them," a speaker identified as Stone says on an audio tape recorded by an undercover FBI agent. "People should not be afraid of the government. The government should fear the people." 
> 
> The agent, who infiltrated the Hutaree group and had built explosives under Stone's direction, accompanied Stone and others as they tried to attend a Feb. 6 meeting of militias in Kentucky, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet said during a detention hearing in U.S. District Court in Detroit. 
> 
> "Now it's time to strike and take our nation back so we will be free of tyranny," Stone, 44, of Clayton, Mich., says on the recording played in court. "The war will come whether we are ready or not."



    If this is the MOST compelling evidence they have, and this guy is denied bond because his dangerous, everyone here better lawyer UP .........

----------


## catdd

A dime will get you a dollar the informant planted the explosives.

----------


## Baptist

> This story is getting worse by the day. Makes me wonder if there is some fbi spy on rpf trying to instigate violence just to make an arrest. I think it would be prudent to be extremely cautious when anyone meets other members of the liberty movement. How can you tell if they are wolves in sheeps clothing? Anyone else had similar feelings?


DHS been surfing these forums since 2007.  You must have missed that thread back in Dec 07/Jan 08.

----------


## Danke

> If this is the MOST compelling evidence they have, and this guy is denied bond because his dangerous, everyone here better lawyer UP .........


Worst advice.  Never "lawyer UP."

----------


## sharpsteve2003

> Worst advice.  Never "lawyer UP."


Talking to the Police by Professor James Duane
James Duane explains why innocent people should never talk to the police.
47:14 - 1 year ago
Professor James Duanes now famous 5th Amendment lecture - popularly known as Dont talk to the police! - has amassed a considerable internet following. The lecture, given as part of Regent Law Schools spring preview weekend.
"Don&#39;t Talk to the Police" by Professor James Duane

----------


## tpreitzel

> Talking to the Police by Professor James Duane
> James Duane explains why innocent people should never talk to the police.
> 47:14 - 1 year ago
> Professor James Duane’s now famous 5th Amendment lecture - popularly known as “Don’t talk to the police!” - has amassed a considerable internet following. The lecture, given as part of Regent Law School’s spring preview weekend.



Thanks, but no thanks.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Thanks, but no thanks.


it's totally worth it.

----------


## tpreitzel

> it's totally worth it.


Inside joke that flopped.  

James constantly stresses the need to just say, "thanks, but no thanks" to interrogation by the police. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, his advice is totally worth it as I know from personal experience.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Inside joke that flopped.  
> 
> James constantly stresses the need to just say, "thanks, but no thanks" to interrogation by the police. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, his advice is totally worth it as I know from personal experience.


Ahh, OK, I've seen the vid like 3 times, but never keyed in on the "thanks, but no thanks"

----------


## Dojo

*Judge to decide bond in Hutaree militia case on Friday*
Paul Egan and Mike Wilkinson / The Detroit News

Detroit -- A federal judge said he will rule Friday on whether eight of nine defendants accused of belonging to a radical militia that wanted to kill police officers will be granted bail.



From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...#ixzz0jsQ8dzco

----------


## devil21

I didn't read the whole thread so pardon if a repeat.

I received a couple messages on a social networking site indicating that these Hutaree people are actually Israeli agents and their "militia" was a cover for Mossad ops in the US.  

Has anybody else seen anything about this?  I can post the messages if anyone wants to see.

----------


## pcosmar

> I didn't read the whole thread so pardon if a repeat.
> 
> I received a couple messages on a social networking site indicating that these Hutaree people are actually Israeli agents and their "militia" was a cover for Mossad ops in the US.  
> 
> Has anybody else seen anything about this?  I can post the messages if anyone wants to see.


No, 
but if you look through the thread you will see where that bull$#@! comes from.

If you check. "*Commanding General" real sons of liberty* " Is a well known racist nuisance.

----------


## devil21

> No, 
> but if you look through the thread you will see where that bull$#@! comes from.
> 
> If you check. "*Commanding General" real sons of liberty* " Is a well known racist nuisance.


"Sons of Liberty" was mentioned in the messages so you're on to something there.  Will check it out.

----------


## Dojo

More arguments coming before ruling on Hutaree bond today


Paul Egan / The Detroit News

Detroit --A federal judge is expected to hear further arguments at 1 p.m. today on whether bond should be granted to alleged members of a radical militia group.It's unlikely any members of a Michigan-based group accused of sedition and plotting to kill police officers will be released today, even if U.S. Magistrate Judge Donald Scheer grants them bond, attorneys involved with the case say. 

That's because *the government is expected to appeal any orders granting bond in the case,* and it's unlikely any appeal would be heard before early next week, attorneys said today. 

Scheer is expected to issue a ruling on bond today after hearing arguments Wednesday and Thursday on whether bail should be granted for eight of the defendants. A ninth defendant is also in custody but awaiting transfer to Detroit from Indiana. 







From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...#ixzz0jxeAMF2r

----------


## jmdrake

> Jesus was not "king of the jews",  you've very confused, some people accused him of being a rouge political rival (king of JUDEA) in order to have him killed. I'm not going to derail this thread but I would recommend Revelation 2:9, John 8:39, and Matthew 23:27, and also look up the words Judean and Judahite and compare them to the word jew.


I know I shouldn't engage with this nonsense, but I can't resist.

Rev. 2:9 - Talks about people who say they are Jews but are not but are of the "synagogue of Satan".  Are you claiming Jesus was of the synagogue of Satan?  Regardless, that has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was Jewish or "king of the Jews".

John 8:39 - Jesus says He chose 12, but one was a devil.  Are you claiming Judas was the only Jewish (or fake Jewish) disciple?  Regardless this has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was Jewish or King of the Jews.

Matthew 23:27 - Jesus calls the teachers of the law and the Pharasees "hypocrites" and "empty tombs".  Ummm....so what?  That has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was Jewish or King of the Jews.

Argument fail.

----------


## Dojo

Posted: 1:45 p.m. April 2, 2010 

8 Hutaree militia members ordered locked up

BY DAVID ASHENFELTER
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER


A federal magistrate judge today locked up eight members of a Lenawee County militia group pending trial on charges that they conspired to overthrow the U.S. government.


http://www.freep.com/article/2010040...d-without-bond




It is difficult to underestimate the dangers inherent in the crimes charged in this case, Magistrate Judge Donald Scheer said from his bench in the U.S. District courthouse in Detroit in ordering the seven men and one woman to remain in jail for what their lawyers said could be a two-year wait until trial.


The lawyers, who are likely to appeal Scheers decision, said the defendants pose no risk to the public and are not a flight risk to avoid trial.


But Scheer said they did pose a risk, adding he could find no combination of bond restrictions that would guarantee that they would appear for trial and pose a risk to the community.


David Stone Sr., 45; his wife, Tina Stone, 44; and his son, Joshua Stone, all of Clayton; Stones other son, David Stone Jr., 19 of Adrian; Joshua Clough, 28 of Blissfield; Michael Meeks, 40 of Manchester; Kristopher Sickles, 27 of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33 of Huron, Ohio. A ninth defendant, Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind., was arrested there and is awaiting transfer to Michigan for trial.


A grand jury indictment says the defendants, led by David Stone Sr., belonged to the Hutaree, a Christian militia, and planned to attack local, state and federal law enforcement officers. Prosecutors said they held training exercises and exploded bombs to prepare for battle.


The indictment said they planned to kill a police officer and attack members of the officers funeral procession.


The defendants pleaded not guilty and their lawyers disputed the charges during a two-day detention hearing Wednesday and Thursday. The lawyers told Scheer the defendants voiced unfavorable views of the government, but never acted on those beliefs and should be released on bond pending trial, which could be two years off.


Federal prosecutors said they are a threat and should be detained. Agents started arresting them in raids last weekend, saying they were planning an operation for April.


All nine are charged with seditious conspiracy, attempt to use weapons of mass destruction, possession of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence. David Stone Sr. and David Stone Jr. also are charged with teaching/demonstrating use of explosive materials.


The most serious charge, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction, carries a maximum penalty of life in prison. Seditious conspiracy and teaching/demonstrating the use of explosive materials carry a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. The firearm possession charges carries a mandatory 5-year prison term.


Contact DAVID ASHENFELTER: or dashenfelter@freepress.com

----------


## pcosmar

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

It would be nice to find the Provocateur and convince him to come clean.

Everyone stands before the final judge.

----------


## tpreitzel

Scheer needs to be booted from the bench, apparently just another corrupt judge. 

A two year wait for a trial sitting in jail? Now, that's a speedy trial. 

As I've said in other threads, whether you like it or not, America, the second Civil War is apparently in progress and you WILL have to select a side. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

----------


## Pericles

> Scheer needs to be booted from the bench, apparently just another corrupt judge. 
> 
> A two year wait for a trial sitting in jail? Now, that's a speedy trial. 
> 
> As I've said in other threads, whether you like it or not, America, the second Civil War is apparently in progress and you WILL have to select a side. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.


Not looking forward to CWII, but don't see how it can be avoided at this point.

----------


## pcosmar

> Not looking forward to CWII, but don't see how it can be avoided at this point.


There are several threads following several stories with a similar theme.
Expect some  sort of False Flag event (this one didn't work out) and a violent government response.
They are pushing, provoking and instigating. Something evil this way comes.
Eyes and ears open.

----------


## revolutionisnow

> I know I shouldn't engage with this nonsense, but I can't resist.
> 
> Rev. 2:9 - Talks about people who say they are Jews but are not but are of the "synagogue of Satan".  Are you claiming Jesus was of the synagogue of Satan?  Regardless, that has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was Jewish or "king of the Jews".
> 
> John 8:39 - Jesus says He chose 12, but one was a devil.  Are you claiming Judas was the only Jewish (or fake Jewish) disciple?  Regardless this has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was Jewish or King of the Jews.
> 
> Matthew 23:27 - Jesus calls the teachers of the law and the Pharasees "hypocrites" and "empty tombs".  Ummm....so what?  That has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus was Jewish or King of the Jews.
> 
> Argument fail.


The Bible has been translated multiple times, you really need to look up the different meanings of words. Judean means someone living in the kingdom of Judea, like a Roman lived in Rome. Judahite/Israelite was a bloodline of people. Someone can convert to a religion, but they cannot convert to a bloodline. Jew means someone who believes in Judaism, which is a religion descended from the Pharisee sect, but it has also come to refer to people of Sephardic or Ashkenazi ethnic heritage. Jesus was not a Pharisee, He didn't follow the Talmud, and He was not Ashkenazi or Sephardic. And you're right, how could He be related to someone who He said their physical seed was of satan? He was ethnically Galilean, His early religion was Yahwehism, later in His life He started His own distinct teachings with His own followers, a movement that would later be called Christianity. 

Jesus was a Judahite/Israelite, He knew His sheep and His sheep knew Him, so they followed Him, meaning that they were early Christians. The Esau / Edomite impostors persecuted Him, and opposed everything He stood for. The Judahite bloodline is only recorded until the birth of Jesus, then the covenant was fulfilled. A new covenant was made and anyone who accepts Jesus is Israel, your DNA does not provide you salvation. Salvation is of Christ, it has nothing to do with the jews. 

Yes, Judas was the only Jewish disciple, and was most likely a Sicarii.

Jesus chastised the Jews people because they did not follow The Laws of Moses, but concerned themselves with the traditions of the elders, which was a precursor to the Babylonian Talmud.

----------


## tpreitzel

> Not looking forward to CWII, but don't see how it can be avoided at this point.


Nobody who loves this republic is looking forward to CW2, but the federal government continues to push, push, push, push, push, and ... well push some more. The perimeters defined in the US Constitution have been trampled by the federal government.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> The Bible has been translated multiple times, you really need to look up the different meanings of words. Judean means someone living in the kingdom of Judea, like a Roman lived in Rome. Judahite/Israelite was a bloodline of people. Someone can convert to a religion, but they cannot convert to a bloodline. Jew means someone who believes in Judaism, which is a religion descended from the Pharisee sect, but it has also come to refer to people of Sephardic or Ashkenazi ethnic heritage. Jesus was not a Pharisee, He didn't follow the Talmud, and He was not Ashkenazi or Sephardic. And you're right, how could He be related to someone who He said their physical seed was of satan? He was ethnically Galilean, His early religion was Yahwehism, later in His life He started His own distinct teachings with His own followers, a movement that would later be called Christianity. 
> 
> Jesus was a Judahite/Israelite, He knew His sheep and His sheep knew Him, so they followed Him, meaning that they were early Christians. The Esau / Edomite impostors persecuted Him, and opposed everything He stood for. The Judahite bloodline is only recorded until the birth of Jesus, then the covenant was fulfilled. A new covenant was made and anyone who accepts Jesus is Israel, your DNA does not provide you salvation. Salvation is of Christ, it has nothing to do with the jews. 
> 
> Yes, Judas was the only Jewish disciple, and was most likely a Sicarii.
> 
> Jesus chastised the Jews people because they did not follow The Laws of Moses, but concerned themselves with the traditions of the elders, which was a precursor to the Babylonian Talmud.


While I have no intention of further derailing the thread, and would welcome seeing this section split out to Religion where it belongs, I cannot pass by without comment.

Fortunately, I actually read the scripture in Hebrew and Greek, so I can personally attest to the fact that the only real loss present in the KJV and the NASB English is in terms of "color."  That is, there is no real meaning lost, it's more the difference between seeing a movie in color or black and white.  The Hebrew and Greek show up in full color, while the English shows up in black and white.

We know that Mark, John, Peter, Andrew, Jude, Simon, James the Younger and James the Elder (along with Paul) at a minimum were blood-Israelites, Matthew and Thomas were probably lapsed Jews.  Batholomew and Philip we honestly don't know.

The background on Judas Iscariot is less clear, except that he was Judaen while the rest of the diciples were Gallileans.  He also seems to have been a violent Judean nationalist who was disappointed because Yeshua did not go about conquering the world with weapons.

Fortunately, it is possible to look at these facts without bias or preconceptions, when one is not predisposed against specific collected groups.

----------


## Dr.3D

> The Bible has been translated multiple times, you really need to look up the different meanings of words. Judean means someone living in the kingdom of Judea, like a Roman lived in Rome. Judahite/Israelite was a bloodline of people. Someone can convert to a religion, but they cannot convert to a bloodline. Jew means someone who believes in Judaism, which is a religion descended from the Pharisee sect, but it has also come to refer to people of Sephardic or Ashkenazi ethnic heritage. Jesus was not a Pharisee, He didn't follow the Talmud, and He was not Ashkenazi or Sephardic. And you're right, how could He be related to someone who He said their physical seed was of satan? He was ethnically Galilean, His early religion was Yahwehism, later in His life He started His own distinct teachings with His own followers, a movement that would later be called Christianity. 
> 
> Jesus was a Judahite/Israelite, He knew His sheep and His sheep knew Him, so they followed Him, meaning that they were early Christians. The Esau / Edomite impostors persecuted Him, and opposed everything He stood for. The Judahite bloodline is only recorded until the birth of Jesus, then the covenant was fulfilled. A new covenant was made and anyone who accepts Jesus is Israel, your DNA does not provide you salvation. Salvation is of Christ, it has nothing to do with the jews. 
> 
> Yes, Judas was the only Jewish disciple, and was most likely a Sicarii.
> 
> Jesus chastised the Jews people because they did not follow The Laws of Moses, but concerned themselves with the traditions of the elders, which was a precursor to the Babylonian Talmud.


I would suggest you read and understand Romans chapter 11.

I don't mean that you should just read it and understand the words, but that you should study what the words are actually saying.

And please take particular notice of this verse:




> _CJB_ *Romans 11:18* then don't boast as if you were better than the branches! However, if you do boast, remember that you are not supporting the root, the root is supporting you.

----------


## reardenstone

Anyone here think "false flag" or decoy strawman? I wonder why in the heck planning an attack on police officers was an actual "plan" (Christian Militias of Detroit).

My plan for revolt would borrow more from Ghandi and Russell Means ala Lakota Republic. we just declare sovereignty and secede without resorting to violence.

----------


## anaconda

"Patriots" are now insane, violent, and conspiratorial according to this fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center.

YouTube - Rage on the Right

----------


## Baptist

still have seen zero evidence that these guys were going to carry out an attack.  All the media reports mention bombs and killing cops at a funeral, but the only specifics that have come out in court so far are that the leader was mouthing off about "popping" that cop on the side of the road.

----------


## pcosmar

> still have seen zero evidence that these guys were going to carry out an attack.  All the media reports mention bombs and killing cops at a funeral, but the only specifics that have come out in court so far are that the leader was mouthing off about "popping" that cop on the side of the road.


_re-posted for relevance_
I might be a good idea to remember history.
*The Manufactured Menace from Michigan -- Take Two*
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...igan-take.html





> "That's it, baby -- strut! The camera loves you!" In a familiar bit of Homeland Security Theater, a law enforcement officer, his arms decorated with gangbanger-style tattoos, swaggers through a search of alleged Hutaree militia member Thomas Piatek's home in Hammond, Indiana.

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## revolutionisnow

> I would suggest you read and understand Romans chapter 11.
> 
> I don't mean that you should just read it and understand the words, but that you should study what the words are actually saying.
> 
> And please take particular notice of this verse:


Paul was a Pharisee and persecuted Christians before he became one, and many say the original subverter of the word of Jesus. He never personally met Jesus, so one has to wonder where he gets his ideas from, especially the ones that run contrary to what Jesus taught. But even then he is talking about Israelites, which as I've explained does not equal Jews. Search Paul vs Jesus for a detailed list of contradictory teachings.

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## Baptist

> Paul was a Pharisee and persecuted Christians before he became one, and many say the original subverter of the word of Jesus. He never personally met Jesus, so one has to wonder where he gets his ideas from, especially the ones that run contrary to what Jesus taught. But even then he is talking about Israelites, which as I've explained does not equal Jews. Search Paul vs Jesus for a detailed list of contradictory teachings.



If they exist, I'm sure they are solved when you realize that much of what Jesus said was directed at the Jews.  He did come to restore the kingdom.  It wasn't until the Jews rejected him that he ditched them and went for the gentiles.  Lucky for me the Jews did reject him, because even us dogs deserve crumbs from the table.

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## cheapseats

DHS & FBI cannot have it both ways.  Like Obama cannot be brilliant and also unaware of Rod Blagojevich's cartoon-grade corruption.

They cannot for the life of them find Osama Bin Laden or Illegal Immigrants but somehow, Deus Machina, they ALWAYS manage to "infiltrate" plot-ridden, skill-saturated, arms-heavy . . . hold on a sec while I pop open another CAN . . . "Right Wing Extremists with White Supremacist Overtones."  Gimme a break.

Perhaps it is having seen so many movies, but it seems rather likely that "Intelligence" and "Security" goons TROLL for Potential Loose Canons and then STICK with 'em.  "Gotta live one, Ed" could mean a decade-and-a-half of Steady Work hangin' out with the Rubes, shootin' at things 'n buildin' stuff.  

Whether they CULTIVATE them or whether their own plainclothes participation, with their own skillz and insights and weapons, "simply" ups the ante, I think they're Johnny-on-the-spot in the same way TRADERS are Johnny-on-the-spot, kinda sorta CAUSING the things in which they ostensibly "only" traffic.

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## cheapseats

HEADS UP CREEPY SURVEILLANCE TYPES:  Be clear I am neither ADVOCATING Violence nor defending a particular organization.  Of the organizations involved in these raids, I have no knowledge whatever.

HOWEVER, COMMA, ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS MEANS EXACTLY THAT.

For Believers, it does not mean going on hiatus when it gets tiresome or quitting when it gets dangerous. Onward is unambiguous.

When push comes to shove at the end of the day, you have lines in the sand or you don't.  You're as good as your Word or you aren't.

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