# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  IMPORTANT: OFFICIAL HURRICANE THREAD

## libertygrl

Please, lets keep this thread bumped guys.  

I wasn't scared until I heard this freakin' CNN weather girl saying that she gasped in disbelief at the latest radar reports. I mean, just tell us the facts and not your personal feelings.

She claimed that this could be the perfect storm!    Living along the coast all my life and having had to evacuate last year, it's been my experience that the media uses scare tactics to freak people out so, I'm not sure what to believe yet.

Maybe for those of us along the projected path, we can start off talking about preparations, what people are going to buy, and then keep up with how this hurricane is progressing.   Also, what are your beliefs about weather modification?  Is having a hurricane in late October unusual at all?  I don't recall ever experiencing one so late.

Thanks to presence for beginning this discussion. I didn't mean to step on your toes, I just wanted this topic to get more exposure.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-quot-NJ-NY-PA

Last year I put some family items like old photographs and personal mementos in an overnight bag when I had to evacuate. The media built up 
 hurricane Irene so bad, I was having visions of Katrina in my head.  But it wasn't that bad at all.

 I never bothered to unpack the overnight bag because I figured if it happens again, that will be one less thing I have to worry about.  Damn, I wish I don't have to evacuate again!  

Here's more media reports:

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## libertygrl

> Please, lets keep this thread bumped guys.  
> 
> I wasn't scared until I heard this freakin' CNN weather girl saying that she gasped in disbelief at the latest radar reports. I mean, just tell us the facts and not your personal feelings.
> 
> She claimed that this could be the perfect storm!    Living along the coast all my life and having had to evacuate last year, it's been my experience that the media uses scare tactics to freak people out so, I'm not sure what to believe yet.
> 
> Maybe for those of us along the projected path, we can start off talking about preparations, what people are going to buy, and then keep up with how this hurricane is progressing.   Also, what are your beliefs about weather modification?  Is having a hurricane in late October unusual at all?  I don't recall ever experiencing one so late.
> 
> Thanks to presence for beginning this discussion. I didn't mean to step on your toes, I just wanted this topic to get more exposure.
> ...

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## TonySutton

Sandy cranked up right before she hit Cuba but then comes the mountains of Cuba which are very disruptive and will cause her to lose steam a bit.  From what I have read there are somewhat chaotic conditions ahead which are generally not favorable to growth so I would be surprised if her intensity increases much.  That does not mean as a storm she might no grow in size but I doubt the winds will increase dramatically.  That said hurricanes are hard to predict because there are a lot of variables which affect their intensity and movement so it is best to keep an eye out.  They generally move slow, 10-15 mph, which gives you time to head out if needed.

I spent a lot of my life in FL and NC so I have seen many hurricanes come and go.  I have had eye walls go over my house more than once.  Preparation is the most important thing.

With regards to October hurricanes, if I recall correctly hurricane season can last into Nov but it is very rare to see one then.  Generally they peak around mid Sept.

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## Root

I follow these guys when big storms approach. 

http://www.easternpaweatherauthority.com/

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## TonySutton

Btw, what state are you located in?

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Is having a hurricane in late October unusual at all?  I don't recall ever experiencing one so late.



October is still considered "hurricane season."

http://www.stormfax.com/hurmonth.htm

Only goes to 2006, but there are plenty of US hurricane strikes in OCT.

Having a few weeks of food and water are a good idea.

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## libertygrl

> I follow these guys when big storms approach. 
> 
> http://www.easternpaweatherauthority.com/


Thanks for the link.  Great site!

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## libertygrl

> Sandy cranked up right before she hit Cuba but then comes the mountains of Cuba which are very disruptive and will cause her to lose steam a bit.  From what I have read there are somewhat chaotic conditions ahead which are generally not favorable to growth so I would be surprised if her intensity increases much.  That does not mean as a storm she might no grow in size but I doubt the winds will increase dramatically.  That said hurricanes are hard to predict because there are a lot of variables which affect their intensity and movement so it is best to keep an eye out.  They generally move slow, 10-15 mph, which gives you time to head out if needed.
> 
> I spent a lot of my life in FL and NC so I have seen many hurricanes come and go.  I have had eye walls go over my house more than once.  Preparation is the most important thing.
> 
> With regards to October hurricanes, if I recall correctly hurricane season can last into Nov but it is very rare to see one then.  Generally they peak around mid Sept.


I just looked up hurricane season.  You are right.  It lasts until Nov. 30.

Yeah, I guess it would be hard to predict.  My concern is that cold front coming in at the same time. Even if the storm is along the coast, the cold  front inland can attrack the storm towards itself.  At least that's what Sam Champion said in that video.

Let me ask you guys.  What's an alternative if we lose cell phone power and or a signal. At first I was concerned with just the power but then I read how the storm can just as soon affect the cell phone towers as well.  Obviously, it may not hit them all but I read all it takes is one tower and if that's the one closest to where you live to get a signal, you're screwed.

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## TonySutton

When big storms hit and knock out the electricity do not count on any phones working for very long.  Land lines and cell phones all use battery backup which is why they still work when you lose power at your house.  Unfortunately these batteries will only last a certain length of time.  They will have generators to keep the batteries from dieing but sometimes even that is not fool proof, especially when lots of trees topple or lose branches.

The best thing you can do to prepare is to make sure you have plenty of food and water to last you for 1-2 weeks.  Make sure this is food you can prepare without electricity.  Remember everything in your fridge and freezer will spoil if you lose electricity for several days.  If you have a chest freezer, make sure you have gallon jugs of water in it.  These large ice cubes will last a long time especially if you keep the unit closed.

Here is a very important tip.  Fill your bathtub full of water, as high as it will go.  This is not for drinking.  It is for flushing your toilet.  If your well pump has no electricity or if you local water facility is damaged so bad they can not produce water pressure, you will want water for flushing.

Get baby wipes for bathing.

Also, candles, matches and batteries are good to have

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## nobody's_hero

Luckily it looks to be heading straight for Washington D.C.

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## libertygrl

> When big storms hit and knock out the electricity do not count on any phones working for very long.  Land lines and cell phones all use battery backup which is why they still work when you lose power at your house.  Unfortunately these batteries will only last a certain length of time.  They will have generators to keep the batteries from dieing but sometimes even that is not fool proof, especially when lots of trees topple or lose branches.
> 
> The best thing you can do to prepare is to make sure you have plenty of food and water to last you for 1-2 weeks.  Make sure this is food you can prepare without electricity.  Remember everything in your fridge and freezer will spoil if you lose electricity for several days.  If you have a chest freezer, make sure you have gallon jugs of water in it.  These large ice cubes will last a long time especially if you keep the unit closed.
> 
> Here is a very important tip.  Fill your bathtub full of water, as high as it will go.  This is not for drinking.  It is for flushing your toilet.  If your well pump has no electricity or if you local water facility is damaged so bad they can not produce water pressure, you will want water for flushing.
> 
> Get baby wipes for bathing.
> 
> Also, candles, matches and batteries are good to have



Thanks for the suggestions Tony.  Sounds like a plan.    I only have use of a cell phone so while I know it is limited, I would still like to have it available even for a short time.

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## brandon

> I follow these guys when big storms approach. 
> 
> http://www.easternpaweatherauthority.com/


Nice thanks for the link, I'm in eastern PA.  Also thanks for the thread, I actually didn't even hear about this hurricane before now.

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## Danke

So far south still and they can make that kinda prediction so far north?

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## VBRonPaulFan

i lived about 2 blocks from the beach in Virginia Beach when Hurricane Isabel made landfall. The storm surge was crazy high, probably at least 8-10 feet.

That wasn't the end of the world, this won't be either. Newscasters like to blow $#@! up because that's how they keep their ratings up. The worst part of Isabel was not having power for ~ 8-9 days. You just need to prepare if you're in an area where you're likely to lose power to be able to get by without it. If you're at sea level or near it, try to find somewhere to hang out that's more elevated. Stay inside during the worst of the storm.

Other than that, they usually aren't that big of a deal. I've been through several major hurricanes. It floods for a couple of days, you lose power for a while, then you have to go outside and pick up all the downed tree limbs and $#@! and go about with your life. There isn't any reason to be scared, just prepare and you'll be fine.

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## TonySutton

> Thanks for the suggestions Tony.  Sounds like a plan.    I only have use of a cell phone so while I know it is limited, I would still like to have it available even for a short time.


The nice thing about cell phones is that even though you might lose them for a day or 2 the cell phone companies have COLTs that they will drive in to replace lost towers/sites to get coverage back up.

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## KCIndy

> Last year I put some family items like old photographs and personal mementos in an overnight bag when I had to evacuate.



Have you considered making hi-res scans of your important photographs?  

If I have a document or photo that I really don't want to lose, I'll scan it and then either store it online or email it to myself.  

I know it's not the same thing as having the originals, but in a worst-case scenario having electronic copies of treasured old family photos are a lot better than losing them completely.

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## libertygrl

> Have you considered making hi-res scans of your important photographs?  
> 
> If I have a document or photo that I really don't want to lose, I'll scan it and then either store it online or email it to myself.  
> 
> I know it's not the same thing as having the originals, but in a worst-case scenario having electronic copies of treasured old family photos are a lot better than losing them completely.


Yeah, I had been planning to do that for a while now, but I haven't had the time to do it.  My cousin gave me copies of a few cds of old family photos that he had scanned himself.  So while I have those, I still have my own that need to be done.  But you're right, it's better to have them backed up electronically.

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## ZENemy

> October is still considered "hurricane season."
> 
> http://www.stormfax.com/hurmonth.htm
> 
> Only goes to 2006, but there are plenty of US hurricane strikes in OCT.
> 
> *Having a few weeks of food and water are a good idea.*


Reported!

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## libertygrl

> So far south still and they can make that kinda prediction so far north?


As you know, they use computerized weather tracking systems so I guess they just put in all the pertinent data of the model they are tracking now,
and it gives a prediction based on what they feed it. I'm guessing wind velocity, it's current trajectory, etc.

Again, it's a prediction so it doesn't necessarily mean it will follow the path they predict. As someone here said, hurricanes can change direction very quickly. But one of the meterologists did say that the particular tracking system they use has been pretty accurate so far.

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## KCIndy

Libertygrl, after reading up a bit on the storm, I wouldn't worry about the high winds or possibility of snow.  The winds are supposed to top out at 65mph gusts, which sounds scary but usually just means you'll be picking up sticks and limbs (and your neighbor's trash cans) the next day.  

The biggest threat to your area is going to be the threat of flooding.  If I were you, that would be my number one concern at this point. 

Are you in a low-lying area?  Do you know if your neighborhood has ever flooded before?  

I don't know what state you're in, but as an example (and useful to Brandon, who mentioned eastern PA) you should be able to look up maps like this one, which can give a better idea of areas prone to flooding:

http://climate.met.psu.edu/features/...PEMA_flood.php

You can also get on to Google maps and hit the "terrain" feature and pull up topographic maps of your area.

The weather service is predicting up to five inches of rain for NYC and surrounding areas.  If you live *anywhere* other than really high ground (top of hill or bluff, or well up the side of a hill) you'll want to be vigilant about flash flooding.  If you're in a flat, open area, or near a creek or river, or near the bottom of a valley or ravine, it should be of special concern.  

Don't panic, just keep the car packed and get set to run to higher ground.  Worst case?  If you're prepared, you might have to spend a night or two in a motel, or with friends or relatives.  (Although in my case, spending the night with MY relatives would BE the disaster, ha!!!)

Stay alert, be prepared, and you'll be fine.  Keep us posted on how things turn out!

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## asurfaholic

Im excited. Big waves ahead. Btw... Ive lived oceanfront for years, and came back to see many homes on my street destroyed. Worst storm for me was hurricane fran, 1996, which was a cat 3 storm following a mean little bertha, cat 2, which had hit weeks earlier. 

I cant even count how many hurricanes ive been through. Prepare for the worst, have food and water, at least 20 gal of gas in cans. But usually they are tame. People who usually die are those who are hit by falling trees.

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## Warrior_of_Freedom

I'd never evacuate my home. I'd come back to see it was ransacked by some dip$#@!.

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## Elwar

I am on the west coast of Florida. The predictions for over here are just some high winds.

Not too big of a deal.

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## libertygrl

> Libertygrl, after reading up a bit on the storm, I wouldn't worry about the high winds or possibility of snow.  The winds are supposed to top out at 65mph gusts, which sounds scary but usually just means you'll be picking up sticks and limbs (and your neighbor's trash cans) the next day.  
> 
> The biggest threat to your area is going to be the threat of flooding.  If I were you, that would be my number one concern at this point. 
> 
> Are you in a low-lying area?  Do you know if your neighborhood has ever flooded before?  
> 
> I don't know what state you're in, but as an example (and useful to Brandon, who mentioned eastern PA) you should be able to look up maps like this one, which can give a better idea of areas prone to flooding:
> 
> http://climate.met.psu.edu/features/...PEMA_flood.php
> ...


 Thanks KCIndy. You're right. The flooding is going to be more of a concern- especially since I live along the shore and we are supposed to also be a high tide as well. We've had some nor'easters over the years. Last year we evacuated further north to a relative's house (a relative that I actually like - LOL). Unfortunately she has since moved. But the storm did not cause any major flooding.  Only one time did I actually see some flooding in the streets. That was back in the early 90's.  The water was slowly building up over the sidewalks.  I actually drove through it after leaving work early because of a bad cold. It was not a fun sight to see.  It was very unnerving to say the least.  Thankfully it didn't get any worse than that and it receeded.

So... we'll see how it goes.   At least I have until Sunday night to prepare.   Besides the concern factor I guess I'm a little spoiled as well.  I hate the inconvenience of it all!

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## libertygrl

> Im excited. Big waves ahead. Btw...


This is probably like Christmas time for you surfer dudes.

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## cajuncocoa

> Libertygrl, after reading up a bit on the storm, I wouldn't worry about the high winds or possibility of snow.  The winds are supposed to top out at 65mph gusts, which sounds scary but usually just means you'll be picking up sticks and limbs (and your neighbor's trash cans) the next day.  
> 
> The biggest threat to your area is going to be the threat of flooding.  If I were you, that would be my number one concern at this point. 
> 
> Are you in a low-lying area?  Do you know if your neighborhood has ever flooded before?  
> 
> I don't know what state you're in, but as an example (and useful to Brandon, who mentioned eastern PA) you should be able to look up maps like this one, which can give a better idea of areas prone to flooding:
> 
> http://climate.met.psu.edu/features/...PEMA_flood.php
> ...


All good advice...also, be sure to stock up on food and water to have at home, just in case stores aren't open for awhile.  You might also lose electricity, so be prepared for that.  We were without electricity almost a week after Isaac.  Get some batteries and flashlights ready.

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## libertygrl

I think I'll just accept what this guy is saying first, instead of freaking out over what the cable news stations are broadcasting. He sounds more level headed:


*2. Local Long Island, NY weather report:*

Hurricane Sandy: Another Perfect Storm?
As the hurricane tracks towards Long Island, experts say it's too soon to compare it with the deadly 1991 storm.

Despite Internet buzz that Hurricane Sandy could equal another Perfect Storm, experts say it's too soon to tell if the weather tracking toward Long Island will be as devastating as that deadly 1991 storm.

According to David Stark, meteorologist for the National Weather Service office at Upton, experts are now "confident that Long Island will see some impacts from Sandy."

The new official forecast track, Stark said, has the storm hitting 100 miles southwest of Riverhead on Tuesday at 8 a.m.

The Perfect Storm, in 1991, was a lethal combination of a low-pressure system, a high-pressure system, and Hurricane Grace, that came together to wreak widespread havoc on the Northeast, resulting in 13 deaths.

Hurricane Sandy slammed Jamaica on Wednesday and unleashed her wrath on eastern Cuba on Thursday. NWS sources said the official track indicates the hurricane first moving northward across the Bahamas, and then, eventually, turning northeast out over the western Atlantic and toward Long Island.

The storm will run "well to the east of the mid-Atlantic, North Carolina area" over the weekend, NWS meteorologist Peter Wichrowski said. By Monday or Tuesday, it is expected to make a turn toward Long Island, or just east of the area, near Montauk.

On Thursday, Stark said the hurricane could transition to a post-tropical storm but could still be a "significant event," impacting Long Island.

"The biggest uncertainty we have is in the details," Stark said. "If the track does pan out, we can expect heavy rains, strong winds, coastal flooding and strong waves."

Downed trees and power lines are also a strong possibility.

The storm, however, is still five days out, Stark said. "It does appear that, rather than the storm going out to sea, there is a growing confidence that we will be impacted. We just don't how bad it could be."

Forecaster Jim Cisco of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration prediction center in College Park, Maryland, told the Huffington Post, "We don't have many modern precedents for what the models are suggesting."

The storm, Huffington Post reports, is likely to hit during a full moon when tides are near their highest, increasing coastal flooding potential, according to NOAA forecasts  with all the earmarks of a billion-dollar storm.

Internet speculation is rampant that the Sandy could rival the Perfect Storm of 1991  haunting scores of residents scared of Halloween devastation.

When asked about the Perfect Storm comparison, Stark said it's too soon to tell. *"A Perfect Storm  making those comparisons right now is a little premature. This far in the game, to make a comparison like that, is not a good idea," he said.* "We dont really know how its going to evolve."

Stark said that Sandy has the potential to be a "significant storm. We'll have to see how the forecast scenario pans out," he said.


h ttp://westislip.patch.com/articles/hurricane-sandy-another-perfect-storm

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## libertygrl

> All good advice...also, be sure to stock up on food and water to have at home, just in case stores aren't open for awhile.  You might also lose electricity, so be prepared for that.  We were without electricity almost a week after Isaac.  Get some batteries and flashlights ready.


I know.  In was a kid when we were out of electricity for 2 weeks!   We ate plenty of Spam back then!  (To this day, I still don't know exactly what  I was eating! Maybe it's better that I don't find out!)  LOL.  Thanks!

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## Lucille

> Im excited. Big waves ahead...






I hope you like it!  Great show.  I was one of its "dozens of fans!" /David Milch

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## Dianne

> Luckily it looks to be heading straight for Washington D.C.


LMAO

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## libertygrl

> Luckily it looks to be heading straight for Washington D.C.


Now that, *WOULD* be the perfect storm.

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## libertygrl

> I hope you like it!  Great show.  I was one of its "dozens of fans!" /David Milch


OMG.  I'm totally liking that song!  I'll have to check them out on iTunes.  I'm always looking for bands I haven't heard of. Can't stand what's on the radio these days...

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## Nirvikalpa

My area was a mess after Hurricane Irene (hundreds of houses deemed 'uninhabitable').  The NYC-area is probably going to be a mess - the metro will probably be shut down, and Amtrak/NJ Transit service will be down too.  We have a lot of nursing homes and senior citizen living apartments right alongside the rivers here (whoever thought that was a good idea deserves to be smacked)...

Hoping all my buds in Cape Hatteras, NC can enjoy the surf... but that it stays far, far away from my house.

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## Dianne

I would say everyone on the east coast should prepare.    There are some great suggestions on the board .. I would suggest you have plenty of plastic, disposable eating utensils and paper plates and garbage bags in case you lose water and power.

I don't trust anything weather people have to say.    I lived through Hurricane Hugo in the Charlotte area, back in the 80's.    I stayed up until 1:00 a.m. watching the reports and we were told we might have wind gusts up to 35 mph.    At 5:00 a.m. the winds were over 100 mph, there was a freight train sound for about two hours (loud like the track was right outside the door),   trees snapping, fireballs bouncing in the yard from transformers blowing.     We were without power and phone service for 15 days and were not at all prepared.    All the stores and gas stations were closed due to power outages and huge trees across the roads.    We couldn't go anywhere, had little in the way of canned goods..   All the stuff in the fridge and freezer spoiled. 
It looked like a war zone when it was over.     The neighbors all pitched in together to share what resources we had.

I'm just suggesting everyone on the east coast be vigilent, and if it going to come close; just get the hell out of there.    It was a terrifying experience !

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## QuickZ06

If it is a bad one, good luck and hope everyone makes it out ok. Can't be losing these liberty lovers to HAARP.

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> October is still considered "hurricane season."
> 
> http://www.stormfax.com/hurmonth.htm
> 
> Only goes to 2006, but there are plenty of US hurricane strikes in OCT.
> 
> Having a few weeks of food and water are a good idea.






> Reported!



It is strictly for hurricanes.    Once the hurricane is gone, we eat it all up and drink the water as quickly as possible.  We used to call it Chris Christie time, but we might call it Honey Boo Boo time next time.  





> But one of the meterologists did say that the particular tracking system they use has been pretty accurate so far.



Didn't they just have it running into western FL just a day or two ago?  These things do change, and this one just did.  Otherwise, there'd be nothing new to report.  I think their latest forecast (your video) is quite ambitious.






> This is probably like Christmas time for you surfer dudes.



Too much wind, I hear.


But I've heard a hurricane going into NY at the right angle would be just plain nasty, and they've been saying that for years...  kinda like bowling where you want to curve in between the first two pins.  The right strike would be an amazing disaster.

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## Lucille

I wonder how many people don't prep for disasters like this since the govt said it's a "potential indicator of terrorist activities.”

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## cajuncocoa

> I think I'll just accept what this guy is saying first, instead of freaking out over what the cable news stations are broadcasting. He sounds more level headed:


The Weather Channel people seem to take delight in freaking out over hurricanes.  Fear sells.  

Evacuate if you think it's not safe to stay in your current location....remember, your life is more important than your stuff.  If it's not unsafe to stay, prepare properly and keep your wits about you during the storm.  If you do that, there won't be any need to fear.

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I wonder how many people don't prep for disasters like this since the govt said it's a "potential indicator of terrorist activities.”



Not sure, but a lot of people have the sense to prepare for a hurricane headed straight for them.

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## brandon

All that hype over Irene last year and then all he got here in eastern pa was heavy rains for a few hours.   I imagine this will be the same thing.  Folks on the coast may have more to worry about.

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## libertygrl

> I would say everyone on the east coast should prepare.    There are some great suggestions on the board .. I would suggest you have plenty of plastic, disposable eating utensils and paper plates and garbage bags in case you lose water and power.
> 
> I don't trust anything weather people have to say.    I lived through Hurricane Hugo in the Charlotte area, back in the 80's.    I stayed up until 1:00 a.m. watching the reports and we were told we might have wind gusts up to 35 mph.    At 5:00 a.m. the winds were over 100 mph, there was a freight train sound for about two hours (loud like the track was right outside the door),   trees snapping, fireballs bouncing in the yard from transformers blowing.     We were without power and phone service for 15 days and were not at all prepared.    All the stores and gas stations were closed due to power outages and huge trees across the roads.    We couldn't go anywhere, had little in the way of canned goods..   All the stuff in the fridge and freezer spoiled. 
> It looked like a war zone when it was over.     The neighbors all pitched in together to share what resources we had.
> 
> I'm just suggesting everyone on the east coast be vigilent, and if it going to come close; just get the hell out of there.    It was a terrifying experience !


Thanks Dianne.  Getting some great advice and reports from people who have been there before.  I'm trying to think of what non perishables I should buy.  I used to be able to eat just carbs and stuff, but I notice lately that I need plenty of protein.  I guess tuna and peanut butter is a good place to start.. any suggestions?

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## libertygrl

> If it is a bad one, good luck and hope everyone makes it out ok. Can't be losing these liberty lovers to HAARP.

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## libertygrl

> I wonder how many people don't prep for disasters like this since the govt said it's a "potential indicator of terrorist activities.


 These people are A-holes.  You have local & government websites telling you how to prepare for disasters, and then at the same time claim that if you do, you are a potential terrorist.  They should all look in the mirror when they use that word.

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## presence

WTF?  I posted this yesterday and got demoted to "off topic"

*"DOWNRIGHT SCARY" "Potential Billion Dollar Storm"  NJ, NY, & PA*

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-quot-NJ-NY-PA




> Latest updates in reference to Hurricane Sandy:
> 
> http://forecast.*weather.gov*/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=BGM&product=AFD&form  at=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off
> 
>                                                          .LONG TERM /SATURDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/... CONTD WITH MAJOR  UNCERTAINTY IN THE LONG TERM WITH THE MODELS STILL TRYING TO RESOLVE  SANDY AND THE WEATHER WITH THE STORM. 12Z OPERATIONAL GFS NOW DOES INDEED CAPTURE THE TROPICAL STORM AND SLAM IT INTO THE NEW ENGLAND CST ONLY TO STALL IT OVER THE NRN ADIRONDACKS WED. PRVS 00Z ECMWF* DOWNRIGHT SCARY...ESP FOR CSTL NY/NJ* WITH THE STORM LEFT TURNING A CPL HNDRD MILES FURTHER SOUTH INTO CNTRL NJ BEFORE STALLING AS EARLY AS TUE. GFS ENSEMBLE MEMBERS HAVE TRENDED TWRD A MORE WWRD TRACK...SO THE BOTTOM LINE IT IS *LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE THIS SIGNIFICANT STORM WILL BE IMPACTING* *CNTRL NEW YORK AND NE PENNSYLVANIA IN THE XTNDD PD**.*
> 
> 
> 
> http://classic.wunderground.com/blog...s/article.html
> ...

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## KCIndy

> .....I'm trying to think of what non perishables I should buy.  I used to be able to eat just carbs and stuff, but I notice lately that I need plenty of protein.  I guess tuna and peanut butter is a good place to start.. any suggestions?


Just my 2 cents worth...

My wife and I drive a truck, and have often been stuck for (thankfully) short periods of time in bad weather.  We once spent two days stuck in a pullout along I-80 in Wyoming due to a blizzard.

I always keep a few packages of freeze dried camping meals in the truck with me:



You can buy these at almost any Wal-Mart in the sporting goods department for around five bucks a package.  As long as you've got water and a way to heat it (even a small sterno stove will work for heating water; again, see the camping department of your local Wal-Mart or sporting goods store) these make pretty tasty emergency meals.  Heck, in a worst case scenario, you can dump in cold water and still rehydrate the stuff, although it probably won't taste as good.

These things keep for years, and are actually good enough that if you don't use them for an emergency, they can be used as snacks or meals for those "lazy days" when a trip to the store sounds just... too.... hard.....

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## KramerDSP

I work at a residential school for deaf and blind kids in NE Florida. The kids attend from all over the state. They were sent home today instead of the usual Fridays, and staff were given a paid holiday for tomorrow. I think it's an overreaction for Florida residents but I'm not complaining.

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## cajuncocoa

> Thanks Dianne.  Getting some great advice and reports from people who have been there before.  I'm trying to think of what non perishables I should buy.  I used to be able to eat just carbs and stuff, but I notice lately that I need plenty of protein.  I guess tuna and peanut butter is a good place to start.. any suggestions?


In addition to KCIndy's good suggestions above, and the ones you made here, people in N'awlins tend to load up on Pop-Tarts when a hurricane is coming.  Go figure.

Here's another link with suggestions:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/22...e-preparation/

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Not sure, but a lot of people have the sense to prepare for a hurricane headed straight for them.


Sry, that was dumb.  I meant to say....




> Not sure, but a lot of people *do not* have the sense to prepare for a hurricane headed straight for them.

----------


## Feelgood

> I don't recall ever experiencing one so late.


Hurricane Wilma was much worse. This late in the year, they always hook hard right. When I went to sleep, it was barely a blip on the radar, way down south near Mexico, I believe. The very next morning when I woke up, it was a full blown category 5 storm headed right at me. It lost strength just before making landfall, thank God, but still came across as a Cat 2 storm. The eye passed directly over my head in West Palm Beach. First half of the storm wrecked one side of my house and roof, second half had the winds coming from the opposite direction, and finished the job. Huge mess, not one shingle left on my roof. 

Horrible storm. It hit like the last week of October I believe.

----------


## kathy88

Bump. How are you all faring?

----------


## asurfaholic

> Too much wind, I hear.


Well, you would be foolish to go out when the bands are near.. lol. No, you catch the waves while the storm is still waay out there. The wind pushes the waves for hundreds of miles, and you just watch the reports, and pick a beach that is facing the right direction. Driving 45 minutes can make a huge difference.

Day before hurricane, wrightsville beach http://wblivesurf.com/dailyphotos.as...25/2011&page=9
Day before hurricane, emerald isle http://www.eilivesurf.com/dailyphoto...25/2011&page=2
Day of hurricane, wrightsville beach http://wblivesurf.com/dailyphotos.asp?date=08/26/2011&page=4
Day of hurricane, emerald isle http://www.eilivesurf.com/dailyphoto...26/2011&page=4

These beaches are just an hour or so away from each other, huge difference in size and power of the waves. Although, Irene was a tough cookie, because normally when the storm is running up the coast, the winds may not push the waves the right direction until the storm is right over you. Better waves happen when there is storm straight out, when that happens you can surf the bigger swell for days ahead of the storm.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> These beaches are just an hour or so away from each other, huge difference in size and power of the waves.



haha.  You sound excited.

----------


## cindy25

could this effect the election? or even cause it to be cancelled in some states?

I could see this flipping PA if the Philly area can't vote, or has no power by election day. maybe even NY could be in play (upstate NY is Republican; no NYC and it could happen. 

in PA the legislature could cancel the election, and award the electors?

----------


## moostraks

Ehhh...we just got our first uh-oh from the local weather station. 81 degree record yesterday and this pib storm has a chance of giving us winds off of Lake Erie for wet lake effect snow. Boo hoo!!! We made sure to spend all day outside yesterday and am going to clean out the garden and mulch the berry patch this morning before rain hits tonight and we cool WAY down this next week.

Hope this storm ain't what they think it'll be for the coastal folks. Having grown up in Florida I have learned to not trust any weather report until it is quite clear it is coming ashore.

----------


## opal

Cat 2?  pishaw - we drive that fast - pulling an RV.  *quotes Ron White*  It's not so much THAT the wind's blowin'  as it is WHAT the wind's blowin'

food.. water.. fuel for the generator and something to keep you from going stir crazy if you have no internet access..

----------


## presence

> It's not so much THAT the wind's blowin'  as it is WHAT the wind's blowin'


Note the massive cold low pressure system, that just froze most of north Texas,  now on the Mississippi Coast about to pick up a warm gulf water before merging with Sandy.  It looks like a baseball bat about to strike a curve ball.  The outer bands of both storms are just now beginning to merge.

WOW... Weather Underground's Wundermap.  In the menu on the right, check out the US Forecast "Temperature" with 50% opacity; Zoom out over all of north America.     Its like a night and day wave of low pressure cold weather about to collide with a huge mass of warm low pressure (sandy).  Freakin neat.

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/

----------


## libertygrl

> Bump. How are you all faring?


Here's the latest kathy88:

(CBS News) Hurricane Sandy is currently in the Bahamas and is now considered a a Category 1 storm, a weakened version of the storm since Thursday with winds at 80 miles per hour, David Bernard, chief meteorologist for CBS News Miami station CBS-4, reported on "CBS This Morning."

"The storm is going to leave the Bahamas tonight and it's going to parallel the East Coast for the next 24 to 48 hours," he said. "So by Sunday night, early Monday morning, it'll be roughly east of the outer banks of North Carolina, and then that infamous turn to the west is expected to occur sometime on Monday or Monday night." 

But even in its weakened state, Bernard said Sandy is going to be "a very large storm." He explained, "An approach to the coastline like that, whether you're talking Chesapeake Bay or north towards Long Island coming in from the east, that's not a very good direction. It's a very unusual one. And one of the reasons for is it we have a big roadblock in the central Atlantic -- it's a big blocking high -- that's going to force the storm westward, then it's going to get caught up in this cold air. That's why we're talking about there could be factors with this storm that you might not normally see as the hurricane makes landfall and that could be the form of some winter-type activity."

Florida residents in some coastal areas are already under a tropical storm warning and the threat of storms has already forced some cities to cancel school for the day. Residents there, as the winds picked up speed and rain grew stronger, wasted no time preparing for Sandy's arrival, some filling sandbags that are intended to ward off flooding.

One resident said, "I think it's going to be a big one. I just hope it doesn't hit us too hard."

But Floridians aren't the only ones gearing up for what could become the storm of the season. With memories of last year's Hurricane Irene still fresh in everyone's mind, utility companies as far north as Connecticut are bracing for the worst.

Mitch Gross, of Connecticut Light and Power, said, "(We're) getting our resources ready, making sure our people are ready, getting everything in order."

In Maryland, batteries, generators, and radios flew off store shelves.

John Johnson, of Berlin, Md., said, "We are talking about five to six days possibility, so therefore you gotta sort of plan for that."

The planning isn't unfounded, based on Bernard's assessment on "CTM." He said the storm's wind field is growing. "(We expect) storm-force winds for a large part of the northeast and mid-Atlantic, then power outages as well, and there's a possibility of very heavy inland snows, especially in western Pennsylvania, some of the higher terrain there, into West Virginia, northern Virginia, maybe even the mountains of western Maryland could see heavy snows as a result of the tropical moisture coming in and winter cold wrapping in behind it."

It's planning that could also save lives. Hurricane Sandy is now blamed for at least 21 deaths across the Caribbean. In Cuba, nine people were killed as Sandy toppled houses, ripped off roofs, and flooded entire neighborhoods, making it the island's most deadly storm since 2005. In the Dominican Republic, flash flooding buried cars and trees under water. And in Jamaica, most of eastern part of the island remains without power and even with the storm gone, flash flooding remains a danger. A Jamaican reporter described the scene there this way: "The water is flowing heavily and it is going to get worse. Right now it is a clear and present danger."

Now faced with news of Sandy's destructive potential, those living in her path can only do their best as they prepare for the worst.

One Florida resident said, "Just last week, we talked about the fact that we hadn't had any hurricanes this year, and here we are." 

Even though Florida is experiencing heavy winds and rain as a result of Sandy, the storm will actually skirt the East Coast of the state as it makes it was northward along the Eastern Seaboard.

© 2012 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

----------


## libertygrl

[QUOTE=cindy25;4701780]could this effect the election? or even cause it to be cancelled in some states?

I could see this flipping PA if the Philly area can't vote, or has no power by election day. maybe even NY could be in play (upstate NY is Republican; no NYC and it could happen. 

in PA the legislature could cancel the election, and award the electors?[/QUOTE



*Experts: Team Obama Should Root for Hurricane Sandy to Interrupt Election*

It's been called "snowicane" and "worse than the perfect storm," and it could knock out power in the mid-Atlantic through Election Day.

Hurricane Sandy hasn't even made it past the Bahamas yet, but Sandy, or any natural disaster around Election Day, could wreak extreme havoc on the election, experts say.

Political scientists have long studied the effects of rain and inclement weather on voter turnout and, not surprisingly, have found many people would rather stay at home than brave the weather. But more extreme storms or natural disasters that affect an entire state or region could turn a mild inconvenience into a huge mess.

That's because there are few federal election procedure laws, Robert Pastor, co-director of the Center for Democracy and Election Management says. Election process is generally left up to state or local governments, who Pastor says are "least capable of handling a statewide or regional disaster."

Most states have contingency plans in case a state of emergency is declared on Election Day. In Virginia, which could be hit hard by Sandy, Governor Bob McDonnell can postpone the election for up to 14 days, leading to all sorts of logistical issues.

If, for instance, the election came down to a late-voting Virginia "there'd probably be an outlandish intervention of Super PAC money as well as regular campaign spending," says John Hudak, a governance studies fellow at Brookings. "It would be quite the carnival . . . you'd have a very serious constitutional situation occurring."


It'd also represent a field day for lawyers. Congress has the power to formally protest Electoral College votes from states they feel are tainted, as long as one member from each house agrees to bring it to a vote. If a majority of both houses vote to reject the votes from a certain state, they are thrown out.

"If you have a situation where [a] state has delayed its voting and that one had an impact on the outcome, we'd see a movement to reconsider those votes," he says. For the sake of sanity, let's hope it doesn't happen."

In Hurricane Sandy's case, early predictions are suggesting the storm may make landfall during the early part of next week, so the initial impacts of the storm are likely to have subsided by Nov. 6. But if power remains out through Election Day, as some experts are predicting, there could be residual effects on the election.

Most, but not all states require backup paper ballots at polling stations that use electronic voting machines. Says Pastor: "If there is a region wide natural disaster that shuts down power, there's a high-probability that we will lose votes. In a close election, that'll ensure there will be serious electoral disputes."

Pastor says a natural disaster that impacts the election would "stretch the fabric of American Democracy to the point of being torn" because, in many cases, local disputes over voting "would be addressed in an area where one party is largely dominant and the rules are extremely weak."


So far, American elections have been fairly natural disaster-free. Hudak says there have been some "small scale issues" with blizzards in the upper plains and Rocky Mountain states in previous elections. With any luck, that streak will continue in 2012. But even if Sandy isn't catastrophic, inclement weather throughout the country could have a more predictable impact on the election.

According to a recent survey by the Weather Channel, 35 percent of undecided voters say bad weather will have a "moderate to significant" impact on whether they vote, compared to 27 percent of Democrats and 20 percent of Republicans.

Though those numbers appear to favor former governor Mitt Romney, Hudak says team Obama should be praying for rain.

"Obama has been effective at getting voters to vote early, so anything affecting turnout on Election Day is likely to be bad news for Romney," he says. Voting during a storm is also easier for urban votersa group that overwhelmingly supports Obamawho often have a shorter distance to travel to polling sites than rural voters. "It would certainly set up a benefit to the president if a natural disaster did interrupt voting."

http://h ttp://www.usnews.com/news/a...lection?page=2

----------


## donnay

They are calling this storm-- "Frankenstorm."  "*The weather service gave the hybrid storm the "ghoulish nickname" Frankenstorm as "an allusion to Mary Shelley's Gothic creature of synthesized elements.*"  Could it be they are calling it a 'Frankenstorm' because they are engineering it with all the tool they have to modify the weather?

*Weather Modification a Long-Established, Though Secretive, Reality*
http://pesn.com/2005/09/06/9600160_W..._Modification/

----------


## Nirvikalpa

*This map AUTO UPDATES for the BEST ACCURACY:*






> *NHC Tropical Models*
> 
> *GFS*
> Global Forecast System
> (formerly AVN or MRF) Dynamic This is the American model, formerly the MRF (Medium Range Forecast) or AVN model. It is run every 6 hours (0000, 0600, 1200, and 1800 UTC) and goes out to 16 days (384 hours). 
> 
> *GFDL*
> Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory Dynamic The GFDL is run every 6 hours (0000, 0600, 1200, and 1800 UTC) and forecasts out to 126 hours. It is only run when there is an active disturbance or named storm in the tropics. The GFDL model has a specialized method for initializing the center of the storm's circulation. The initial and boundary conditions are obtained form the GFS model. The GFDL model is most definitely one to consider when forecasting the path and intensity of a tropical cyclone. *It was developed specifically to forecast hurricanes, and it generally does a fairly good job*. In fact, the the GFDL model has been the best-performing model in 2003, 2004, and 2005.  
> 
> ...


Not liking where GFS, UKMET and BAMM have projected this to go.  Can't get any info on "NAM" model, but it has it projecting to hug the coast and not make landfall until its very weak.

----------


## Lucille

Meet Sandy: Single Furious Hurricane Seeking GDP-Boosting Landfall
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...sting-landfall




> "What's different about Hurricane Sandy and why should we be afraid?" is the anxious question that Bloombergs' Tom Keene poses in the clip below. The answer - it's the size! The wind-field is considerably larger than normal with tropical storm strength winds (as the chart below indicates) extending over a very large area. As we warned yesterday, the storm surge in low-lying areas is the most threatening and the clarity of the problem is highlighted by the graphic below as Sandy approaches the Atlantic coast Monday or Tuesday. With the Atlantic unusually warm (meaning more fuel for the hurricane) and the new moon, the title of the Bloomberg clip says it all: "This is how scared you should be of Hurricane Sandy".
> [vid at the link]

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*NODC Coastal Water Temperature Guide (CWTG): 

*http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/dsdt/cwtg/satl_tmap.html
:

----------


## libertygrl

> They are calling this storm-- "Frankenstorm."  "*The weather service gave the hybrid storm the "ghoulish nickname" Frankenstorm as "an allusion to Mary Shelley's Gothic creature of synthesized elements.*"  Could it be they are calling it a 'Frankenstorm' because they are engineering it with all the tool they have to modify the weather?
> 
> *Weather Modification a Long-Established, Though Secretive, Reality*
> http://pesn.com/2005/09/06/9600160_W..._Modification/


It's funny you should mention that.  I try not to always be suspicious of things and deem everything a potential conspiracy but with the election coming up and having a severe hurricane supposedly also heading toward 2 or 3  swing states.... it does make you wonder when you know they have the capabilities. I was reading something yesterday how in the 60's they had the ability to actually weaken a hurricane so that it could lessen the damages below.  But then the military got its hands on it and decided to use it for its "own" purposes.

*Former Naval Physicist: Government Can Control Hurricanes*
Former Vet "Made it Rain" During Vietnam War
Steve Watson & Paul Joseph Watson | 14 Oct 2005

Alex Jones was joined on air yesterday by weather modification expert Ben Livingston.
Livingston discussed in detail proven evidence of hurricane control and his research and experiences with cloud seeding and weather weapons used in the Vietnam war.

Many scoff at the possibility of weather control and simply refuse to believe it exists. Attempting to even engage such people in conversation on the subject is fruitless because their mind is set. Yet the reality is that weather modification has been in operation and continual development since the 1960s. Livingston, now 77, has a master's degree in cloud physics from the Naval Weapons Center and Navy Post Graduate School in California, a degree he later used in the battlefields.

According to a recent report "He seeded clouds and dramatically increased rainfall in his theater of war, creating impassably muddy roads, slowin down the Vietnamese and Korean troops, and saving lives and entire towns from occupation."Livingston was even invited to the White House where he briefed President Lyndon B. Johnson on the effectiveness of weather control activities. Livingston asserts that hurricane control was a national priority of the government in the 60s and they had the ability to do it at that time. That was 40 years ago.

He now works with scientists and pilots at Weather Modification Inc., in Fargo, N.D. His research of hurricane control has been confirmed by the Stanford Research Institute.He has personally flown on 265 missions into the eyes of hurricanes and has gone on record as "most disgusted" with Hurricane Katrina because he knows that the storm itself could have been minimized. 

Livingston revealed that to reduce or redirect a category 4 hurricane would not be that difficult:

"A hurricane is made up of energy sails and each of those sails adds to the ferocity of it. It was proven in 1974 by an international project that these energy sails exist and that they are the reason that hurricanes can develop and grow move and cause damages. So there's no reason to attack the hurricane in total but just to fly in to the right front quadrant primarily relative to the direction the storm is moving in and seed those energy sails that are converging and making the rain and wind velocity increase in the front part of a hurricane." Livingston asserted.

He went on to explain exactly how to minimize and control the hurricane:

" We would be trying to destroy or at least grossly reduce the velocity in these individual energy sails by seeding the clouds with silver iodide in the top part of the cloud... and those tops would then have so many small droplets in them that the prevailing wind just blows them away and so an energy sail would be neutralized until it can regroup which may be several hours later."

The seeding process may sound complicated but it is not at all. There would be no need for more than two small aircraft at a time to safely fly upwards into the hurricane.

"We're carrying more cloud seeding material on one airplane now, over 800% more on each plane than we had during Project Storm Fury" (The project set up by the US Government to discover how to control hurricanes in the 60s). Livingston added.

Alex put the question to Livingston, if it is so simple to do and the government knows how to do it and has been doing it since the 60s then why did they not attempt to minimize hurricane Katrina?

"This is a long story with a deep history. Back in the mid 50s, 1954 or so, the government allotted the first amount of money for weather modification and weather control practices to the US weather Bureau to the tune of about 30 million dollars." Livingston said.

"Their charge was to employ the most brilliant scientists around the world, and meteorologists and physicists, to work out a concept for reducing damages from hurricanes. What brought that on was that we had three tremendous hurricanes in 1953 and '54 that affected the twelve northeastern states... Basically The National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) was formed to take that responsibility." He went on to say.

Mr Livingston went on to describe how Project "Storm Fury" of which he was a national director was then set up in the mid 60s. Much of the research was carried out on hurricanes in the Atlantic at that time.

Project Storm Fury was shut down on the logic that the data was not good enough to use in statistical studies. Many believe that the research then became part of a black operation on weather modification.

Upon recently writing to verify what the national policy is on hurricane research, Livingston received the following response:

"The approach of NOAA with regard to minimizing the impact of hurricanes on US citizens is to improve our forecast on the tracking and intensity of storms and to better warn those in harm's way. It is no longer the policy of NOAA to support or conduct weather modification research."

So there is effectively no official government budget for weather modification of any kind. This would not however prevent the hiring of private companies such as Weather Modification, Inc. to carry out the relatively simple work for around $25 million for the hurricane season. This is a small amount when considering the billions spent on rebuilding and clearing up after hurricanes.

"The situation is as I see it that the Federal Government and NOAA have a tremendous job to do and they're doing a tremendous job. But their interest is in statistical data...where as people who are concerned about hurricane damages are interested more in results or empirical data." Livingston added.

Dr Livingston went on to read a statement from the Stanford research Institute who were brought into Project Storm Fury in the late sixties as a third party, which stated conclusively that knowledge of how to stop hurricanes had been uncovered and that they would be directly liable should a hurricane hit and cause extensive damage and loss of life.

Livingston revealed that on the 18th August 1969, five seedings at two hour intervals on Hurricane Debbie, researchers deduced that the wind speed had decreased from 115mph to 80 mph. That is a 30% reduction and a 45% reduction in damages. On August 20th a second seeding decreased the wind speed again to just under 100 mph, a reduction of around 15%. Some scientists involved wanted more research and to uncover clearer patterns so they brought in Stanford as a third party, who determined that more seeding should be done for damage reduction.

Of course, during the Vietnam war the goal for Livingston and his colleagues was to actually strengthen adverse weather, to inflate and exacerbate the monsoon season in order that the Vietnamese get bogged down. So not only is prevention possible, but also creation of harsh weather conditions.

Dr Livingston was assigned in 1966 from the Naval weapons research Laboratory to a marine fighter squadron in Vietnam. Instead of guns, the aircraft under Livingston's control were fitted with cloud seeding equipment.

"My mission was to find clouds and seed them for maximum precipitation value" he commented.

Cloud seeding is the process of spreading either dry ice (or more commonly, silver iodide aerosols) into the upper part of clouds to try to stimulate the precipitation process and form rain. Since most rainfall starts through the growth of ice crystals from super-cooled cloud droplets (droplets colder than the freezing point, 32 deg. F) in the upper parts of clouds, the silver iodide particles are meant to encourage the growth of new ice particles.

Alex went on to ask Dr Livingston whether it was dangerous flying into hurricanes, and whether that was a factor that could have prevented operations going ahead.

"A good part of the time you're out in the most beautiful VFR weather you've ever seen. If it's night you can see the stars, the moon, if it's daytime the sun or whatever. So you can not only see what you're going to seed, you can analyze it on your radar... generally speaking its not very hazardous flying." Livingston answered.

Dr Livingston puts beyond doubt the reality of weather modification. His take on Hurricane Katrina is that it was not prevented for political reasons.

h ttp://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/141005weather_modification.htm

AT 6:00 min. in, Dr. Livingston talks about how hurricane reduction was a political football. Some wanted it, others didn't.:

----------


## libertygrl

> *NODC Coastal Water Temperature Guide (CWTG): 
> 
> *http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/dsdt/cwtg/satl_tmap.html
> :


Oh crap.  Large wind shield.  High tides (NY) and warm water as well???

----------


## libertygrl

Has anyone gone to the stores yet to buy your supplies??

I took off a little earlier today to start my shopping.   Before I left I printed out several lists of items to get from the Red Cross website.   Having to shop like this is really daunting.   Plus I really can't afford to do this all at once.  Serves me right I guess for procrastinating about building up an emergency stash over the months.  It's really hard when you're on a tight budget.

Today I bought:

6 cans of Campbells natural soups
4 cans of Valley Fresh100% natural chicken breasts
2 boxes chocolate chip Z-bars
1 box crackers
2- mini chips ahoy cups
1- Almond butter
1- Caponata spread
2- Pkgs Apple sauce cups
1-box cereal
2 packages 24 count bottled water.
2- loaves of bread

I know this is not nearly enough.  The prices were getting to me.   I'm looking at everything on my table right now and I can't believe this little amount cost me $95!

I did a quick stop into a K-Mart for batteries.  I figured I better get them while I can still find them.   It was relatively quiet in NY today.  I saw some people stocking up but not many.  The stores were already displaying flashlights, water and batteries.  I expect the weekend to get much more chaotic.

I've still got so much on my list.  As far as cooking,  anyone have some portable camping stoves you can recommend that are safe?  Someone told me I should just buy some sterno kits as they would be cheaper.   Any thoughts?

I've also started freezing more ice.  Lots to do!

----------


## Acala

> I've still got so much on my list.  As far as cooking,  anyone have some portable camping stoves you can recommend that are safe?  Someone told me I should just buy some sterno kits as they would be cheaper.   Any thoughts?


I've owned one of these for a long time and like it a lot:

http://www.majorsurplus.com/The-Gras...ve-P15895.aspx

----------


## presence

> As far as cooking,  anyone have some portable camping stoves you can recommend that are safe?  Someone told me I should just buy some sterno kits as they would be cheaper.   Any thoughts?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo_stove
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_stove

As far as flashlights, I keep solar trail marker lights on my southern windowsills.  They come on every night; storm or no storm; $2 each.

----------


## libertygrl

> I've owned one of these for a long time and like it a lot:
> 
> http://www.majorsurplus.com/The-Gras...ve-P15895.aspx


Wow, those stoves are so much cheaper than what I saw in k-mart today.  Good website for supplies.  Unfortunately, it's too late to order from them.

----------


## libertygrl

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo_stove
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_stove
> 
> As far as flashlights, I keep solar trail marker lights on my southern windowsills.  They come on every night; storm or no storm; $2 each.


That looks pretty cool!   But I don't think I trust myself to put something together like that.   I'm afraid I'll set the house on fire!  LOL.  The massive rains and flooding could actually come in handy then.

----------


## angelatc

If you're staying at home, a BBQ grill, charcoal and lighter fluid and you're good to go.  Unless I'm not thinking of something important, it seems to me that after the storm passes, you can cook outside.  And you're probably not going to cook much during the storm.

----------


## Acala

> Wow, those stoves are so much cheaper than what I saw in k-mart today.  Good website for supplies.  Unfortunately, it's too late to order from them.


You might find one at one of the camping warehouse type stores.  I don't know what's around you.

----------


## Acala



----------


## opal

um.. candles and matches or hurricane lamps
you don't want to use your batteries full time for light

hand held can opener

along with ice, depending on your forcast temps (It's always hot down here in Florida after a hurricane) freeze some damp wash cloths in baggies also.  Nothing like a nice cool wipe down when there's no AC.

Thermos (plural)  We have always made several thermos' full of coffee before the storm - because sometimes ya need coffee to think enough to make coffee.

make sure fire arms and ammo are in sure to stay dry areas (important papers too - like insurance policies)

food in jars is good too.. resealable more than cans.

----------


## libertygrl

> You might find one at one of the camping warehouse type stores.  I don't know what's around you.


Thanks, I'll have to check that out. But I also just found this Sterno Emergency Kit. it.  It's at Walmart:



*Sterno Emergency Preparedness Kit*




http://h ttp://www.walmart.com/ip/St...s-Kit/15392346

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> Luckily it looks to be heading straight for Washington D.C.


Lucky for who? A storm going to DC would pass right over my house. Three tracking models so far show the storm moving right on top of me.

----------


## libertygrl

> If you're staying at home, a BBQ grill, charcoal and lighter fluid and you're good to go.  Unless I'm not thinking of something important, it seems to me that after the storm passes, you can cook outside.  And you're probably not going to cook much during the storm.


Probably better after the storm.  As long as I'm not underwater by then!

----------


## angelatc

Yes, candles for sure.  Dollar store!

----------


## libertygrl

> um.. candles and matches or hurricane lamps
> you don't want to use your batteries full time for light


I just heard a spokesperson from PSEG in NJ, recommend NOT to use candles.  I guess they are concerned of the potential for fire and that would be another added burden on emergency crews.  I actually have used a combination of both over the years.

----------


## opal

$#@!ing nanny state.. no candles?  people have been using candles FOREVER.  If you can't use a candle and not burn down your house.. it's not the candle that's the problem

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> $#@!ing nanny state.. no candles?  people have been using candles FOREVER.  If you can't use a candle and not burn down your house.. it's not the candle that's the problem


+rep

----------


## S.Shorland

..

----------


## phill4paul



----------


## libertygrl

> $#@!ing nanny state.. no candles?  people have been using candles FOREVER.  If you can't use a candle and not burn down your house.. it's not the candle that's the problem


  Oh relax.   It was a recommendation.  It wasn't mandatory.  LOL.

----------


## libertygrl

> um.. candles and matches or hurricane lamps
> you don't want to use your batteries full time for light
> 
> hand held can opener
> 
> along with ice, depending on your forcast temps (It's always hot down here in Florida after a hurricane) freeze some damp wash cloths in baggies also.  Nothing like a nice cool wipe down when there's no AC.
> 
> Thermos (plural)  We have always made several thermos' full of coffee before the storm - because sometimes ya need coffee to think enough to make coffee.
> 
> ...


Several thermos' with coffee - great idea!

----------


## libertygrl

I never heard of the great Hurricane of 1938, have you guys?   Some reports are comparing it with the potential for this one.  Actress Katharine Hepburn's Conn. house was destroyed by it.

Not trying to scare people!    You have to remember, this was before they could forecast these storms in advance. At least we can prepare:

----------


## angelatc

> I just heard a spokesperson from PSEG in NJ, recommend NOT to use candles.  I guess they are concerned of the potential for fire and that would be another added burden on emergency crews.  I actually have used a combination of both over the years.


NM - Opal said it perfectly.

----------


## specialkornflake

> As far as cooking,  anyone have some portable camping stoves you can recommend that are safe?  Someone told me I should just buy some sterno kits as they would be cheaper.   Any thoughts?


I just got finished hiking the Appalachian Trail, so in terms of what hikers are using these are suggestions-
Alcohol stoves are a lightweight and cheap option and are relatively flexible on what fuels they can use, but take some time to cook things and are a little more work.
MSR Pocketrocket is a good option, more expensive, faster, reliable, but requires fuel canisters. More expensive than the first. This was probably most common on the trail and I had one.
Jetboil is a similar version to the MSR Pocketrocket, faster at cooking but not quite as flexible.

----------


## presence

> That looks pretty cool!   But I don't think I trust myself to put something together like that.   I'm afraid I'll set the house on fire!


* How to Make a Brick Rocket Stove for $6.08* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qoyB...eature=related


If you use good firebrick it might cost $30.  You can do this.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

It looks like Sandy is heading straight for me   They're projecting the worse storm surge/floods will be around the NYC/NJ metro area (with the hurricane coming ashore south of that).

----------


## opal

I found a kinda cool  trackng map
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical...218_radar.html

----------


## Lucille

Hurricane Sandy Update
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...e-sandy-update





> Still unsure if to laugh off Sandy, memories of the overblown New York City panic over Irene still fresh, or if to sandbag the basement and first two floors of your house? Here is the latest on the storm courtesy of Jeff Masters' Wunderground blog, which at last check had the following characteristics: Wind: 75 MPH — Location: 29.0N -76.0W — Movement: NNE. In other words, slowly but surely approaching New York, with landfall still expected sometime Tuesday morning. One thing is certain: there will be at least some "boost" to Q4 GDP as a result of the quite a few broken windows, even as all domestic companies line up to blame Sandy for continuing to miss the top line and increasingly, their EPS numbers, some time in January.


Lots more at the link.

More than a Dozen Nuclear Plants Near Hurricane Sandy’s Path Brace for Impact
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...brace-impactcc




> Bloomberg reports:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				“Because of the size of [Hurricane Sandy], we could see an impact to coastal and inland plants,” Neil Sheehan, a spokesman based in Philadelphia for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, said by phone today. “We will station inspectors at the sites if we know they could be directly impacted.”
> 
> ...

----------


## MikeStanart

The perfect storm to have the elections delayed.  Might be Barry's wet-dream.

----------


## brandon

Here's a cool map. Looks like it's coming right at Philly!

http://www.weather.com/news/weather-...storm-20121027

----------


## S.Shorland

It's sunday tomorrow.most of the churches will be praying about this i imagine so if you haven't been for a while,I would join them.

----------


## KCIndy

> 


*I'm in the "Hit the Liquor Store" area!  HOORAY!!!  *

----------


## BamaAla

> *I'm in the "Hit the Liquor Store" area!  HOORAY!!!  *


I'm glad for you, but I can't afford a boat! Ahhh

----------


## PursuePeace

I'm totally screwed.

----------


## FrancisMarion

Get ready for torrential drizzle.

----------


## MelissaCato

> *I'm in the "Hit the Liquor Store" area!  HOORAY!!!  *


YAY  Me too !!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> The perfect storm to have the elections delayed.  Might be Barry's wet-dream.


Or his worst nightmare.  Remember Katrina?  If FEMA screws up as badly, guess who the public is going to blame...

-t

----------


## devil21

An earthquake off western Canada overnight is adding some west coast drama for the weekend.  Hawaii under a 10 foot tsunami warning.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

The weather channel just said:

"Never hesitate to be a "prepper".  That is someone that makes preparations.  Don't wait to go down to the store at the last minute, because all the supplies will have been swept up by "preppers".

I guess DHS overlooked them.  Aren't "preppers" terrorists?  lol!

-t

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Raining steady here with heavy rain at times. Winds have slowly picked up in the last few hours.

----------


## kathy88

Oh for crying out loud. I'm in the 2 feet of snow area.

----------


## Danke

> Oh for crying out loud. I'm in the 2 feet of snow area.


Well, at least it ain't 2 feet of water.

----------


## libertygrl

It's cloudy here in NY.  The wind is picking up a bit, but the storm gusts will kick in later on tonight.  I'm told to expect the actual storm to hit Monday night into Tuesday.  Getting more concerned about the coastal flooding.   They say hurricanes ususally pass quickly, but because there's a cold front heading East, it's draging the the storm toward us rather allowing it to be on it's way.  So we could have sustained winds 75-80 mph longer than we would normally have.  On top of this is the high tides on Mon.  We could have 7-10 days without electricy.  I know I don't have nearly enough food.  Well, ready to go out again for a few last items.  Hope every one stays safe.   I'll try to check back later.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> It's cloudy here in NY.  The wind is picking up a bit, but the storm gusts will kick in later on tonight.  I'm told to expect the actual storm to hit Monday night into Tuesday.  Getting more concerned about the coastal flooding.   They say hurricanes ususally pass quickly, but because there's a cold front heading East, it's draging the the storm toward us rather allowing it to be on it's way.  So we could have sustained winds 75-80 mph longer than we would normally have.  On top of this is the high tides on Mon.  We could have 7-10 days without electricy.  I know I don't have nearly enough food.  Well, ready to go out again for a few last items.  Hope every one stays safe.   I'll try to check back later.


This storm is going to sit on us for a while.  It's going to be ugly!  The weather channel is describing it as the "storm of a lifetime".  This one is going to be BAD!

Get food, get candles - lots of both!  Wash warm clothing and blankets/quilts.  Dress in layers and hopefully have a warm body to share heat with - including pets.

This is not going to be pretty and it's going to stay around a while.

-t

----------


## specialkornflake

The minimum central pressure has dropped to 951 mb according to the 11am advisory. I think it would be interesting to list the reasons this storm could be bad:

1. The moon is full on Monday meaning higher regular tides.

2. Many trees are still in leaf so they are easier to blow over or weigh down with snow/ice.

3. The storm can feed off of unusually warm ocean waters and wind shear has decreased.

4. Yet, the storm doesn't need to because it is pulling energy from the nearby cold-front.

5. The storm is the largest hurricane/tropical storm since records began in 1988. (one sub-tropical storm was larger)

6. Storm surge, rain, flooding, heavy wet snow, and high winds will affect a huge area of high population, causing widespread power outages and transportation problems.

7. After the storm it will turn cold.

8. The way this storm is approaching land has a high likelihood of significantly impacting New York City. (over-topping flood walls and flooding subway)

9. The storm is slower than many hurricanes and has a greater chance of hitting during high tide.

----------


## robert9712000



----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> The weather channel just said:
> 
> "Never hesitate to be a "prepper".  That is someone that makes preparations.  Don't wait to go down to the store at the last minute, because all the supplies will have been swept up by "preppers".



Real preppers don't need to go to the store at all.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Not looking good for the east coast of NJ by the NY area, or the NYC area.  We're in a 10-12ft surge area.  Metro is closing (NYC MTA closing at 7PM tonight, NJ Transit to follow), except for a few buses that they're hoping people will utilize to get out of their area.

----------


## jonhowe

I live in NYC, walking distance to work. I may be the only one showing up tomorrow...

----------


## presence

dp

----------


## presence

> Sandy's tropical storm-force winds extended northeastwards 520 miles from the center, 
> and twelve-foot high seas covered a diameter of ocean 1,030 miles across.
> Since records of storm size began in 1988,* no tropical storm or hurricane has been larger*


http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/


Also, I want to point you to a thread I've started on *"haarpstatus.com"*, please stop in and let me know your thoughts.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...atus.com-Sandy

----------


## brandon

It's starting to look really ominous in southeast PA. It's heavily overcast like I haven't seen in a long time.  We're all hoping this thing is bad enough that it gets us out of work at least one day.

----------


## MelissaCato

Nice breezes started about a hour ago here in Lebanon Pa. YeeeHawww

----------


## MozoVote

Someone pointed out on the Wunderground blog that there are tropical storm force winds in both the North Carolina coast and Bermuda *at the same time, from the same system.*

Storms like this are what the word "unprecedented" really applies to.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Pictures coming out from the Outer Banks of NC (and Hatteras Island):

Jeanette's Pier in Nags Head, NC:



Outer Banks Motel (Buxton, NC):



We have around 6ft of water under our house in Avon, NC but we're holding up so far.  Now to see how our permanent house in NJ fares...

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Pictures coming out from the Outer Banks of NC (and Hatteras Island):
> 
> Jeanette's Pier in Nags Head, NC:



Ummm.  I'd be finding someplace else to stand.  

For those of you starting to feel the wind from this, I hear ya.  There's something spooky about watching a hurricane coming toward you.  I'd imagine basements would be quite useful.  In FL, you will almost never see basements because the water table is too high.  So, it's either, stay or leave.  I would happily hang out in a basement while a hurricane goes through if you have that option.  

And if you have an opportunity to go outside while the eye goes over you, I would do it.  It's quiet, peaceful, and interesting until the wind starts flowing in the opposite direction.

----------


## Todd

http://www.visitob.com/webcams/sea-r...l-devil-hills/

----------


## libertygrl

> http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/
> 
> 
> Also, I want to point you to a thread I've started on *"haarpstatus.com"*, please stop in and let me know your thoughts.
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...atus.com-Sandy


Wow, that haarpstatus was pretty wild. Scary but wild.  But who placed all those sensors around to detect HAARP??

 I just turned to the Discovery channel & they had a show on called America's Most Secret Structures. They were discussing Military Weather Modification, hurricanes and HAARP.  Just a coincidence, right???

----------


## mad cow

The National Data Buoy Center has nice informative sites for individual weather buoys.Click on the triangles in the columns to get a time chart of that data point.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=44009
Mouth of Delaware Bay.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=44025

Southeast of New York Harbor.

There are many others.All wind speeds are in knots.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/conve...s_per_hour.asp
Knots/MPH calculator

----------


## Nirvikalpa

http://obxcams.com/

----------


## libertygrl

Just an update of my area in S. Eastern NY.  Compared  to yesterday, many more people were out on the road today. I think many were last minute preppers. I started getting supplies and organizing things on Friday.

There were long car lines at several gas stations.  Some stores had their windows boarded up.  I've never seen that here before.  The bread aisle at Stop & Shop was completely wiped out. Same thing for canned soups. The egg shelves were almost empty as well.  It's beginning to get scary.  Outside, the tide levels already look high.   It's 3:00 est.  Winds picking up even stronger now and the temperature feels like it's dropping.  I'm starting to feel cold.  The weird thing is my neighborhood is so quite.  Too quite.  People are home, but I've made several trips to stores prepping since Friday, and I haven't seen anyone bringing home bags of goods.... unless they're all preppers already?? 

I agree with the other posters.   This doesn't look good.  I'm really worried now.   It'll be difficult without electricity, but I'll take that over my house being flooded or windows being shattered by the wind.   Does anyone know how many mph would it take to crash in a window?    Sigh.... still lots to do.  My head is spinning in all directions.   Looks like we now have a mandatory evacuation for tomorrow.    Ugh.... this sucks.    Good luck guys.  I'll be checking in from time to time as along as I still have power.

----------


## tod evans

> Does anyone know how many mph would it take to crash in a window?


Even late 18th century single pane sashes easily withstand 40+mph winds but very few residential sashes can withstand airborne projectiles moving as slowly as 5-10 mph.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Just an update of my area in S. Eastern NY.  Compared  to yesterday, many more people were out on the road today. I think many were last minute preppers. I started getting supplies and organizing things on Friday.
> 
> There were long car lines at several gas stations.  Some stores had their windows boarded up.  I've never seen that here before.  The bread aisle at Stop & Shop was completely wiped out. Same thing for canned soups. The egg shelves were almost empty as well.  It's beginning to get scary.



That is why I said preppers don't need to go to the store.  In any disaster, those stores will empty fast.  It will happen from buying or stealing, but they will become empty one way or another.

----------


## CrissyNY

> Just an update of my area in S. Eastern NY.  Compared  to yesterday, many more people were out on the road today. I think many were last minute preppers. I started getting supplies and organizing things on Friday.
> 
> There were long car lines at several gas stations.  Some stores had their windows boarded up.  I've never seen that here before.  The bread aisle at Stop & Shop was completely wiped out. Same thing for canned soups. The egg shelves were almost empty as well.  It's beginning to get scary.  Outside, the tide levels already look high.   It's 3:00 est.  Winds picking up even stronger now and the temperature feels like it's dropping.  I'm starting to feel cold.  The weird thing is my neighborhood is so quite.  Too quite.  People are home, but I've made several trips to stores prepping since Friday, and I haven't seen anyone bringing home bags of goods.... unless they're all preppers already?? 
> 
> I agree with the other posters.   This doesn't look good.  I'm really worried now.   It'll be difficult without electricity, but I'll take that over my house being flooded or windows being shattered by the wind.   Does anyone know how many mph would it take to crash in a window?    Sigh.... still lots to do.  My head is spinning in all directions.   Looks like we now have a mandatory evacuation for tomorrow.    Ugh.... this sucks.    Good luck guys.  I'll be checking in from time to time as along as I still have power.


Sounds very eerie; glad you are prepared though.

I am worried too, my dad is in south Nassau and he is getting everything off the ground in his warehouse.  Last year during Irene there was 3 feet of water in there, and this is supposed to be worse.

I will be praying for him and for everyone out there!

----------


## MozoVote

http://www.pictureshack.us/images/34...dy20121030.gif

Nice image series of Sandy's forecast track. What a huge storm... even Michigan and Wisconsin could see rain from this.

----------


## libertygrl

> That is why I said preppers don't need to go to the store.  In any disaster, those stores will empty fast.  It will happen from buying or stealing, but they will become empty one way or another.


Yeah, I think we heard you the first time.  Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky, but that's not really helpful right now for those of us struggling at the moment. Not everyone can afford to be prepping.  I did start it at one time, but I just couldn't continue.

----------


## brandon

Anyone have any good ideas for some good hurricane comfort food that I can make tonight?

----------


## libertygrl

> Sounds very eerie; glad you are prepared though.
> 
> I am worried too, my dad is in south Nassau and he is getting everything off the ground in his warehouse.  Last year during Irene there was 3 feet of water in there, and this is supposed to be worse.
> 
> I will be praying for him and for everyone out there!


Thanks Chrissy NY.  Same to you & your dad as well. Sounds like he's doing everything he can.

----------


## MozoVote

Getting closer. Wow, that storm is huge.

----------


## kathy88

> Getting closer. Wow, that storm is huge.


DAMN

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Wal-Mart and other big box retailers in my area are packed. Yesterday, the Wal-Mart nearest me in DE was so packed that people were parking out on the side of the highway and walking into their lot.

----------


## MozoVote

The recurvature towards the north is beginning.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Wal-Mart and other big box retailers in my area are packed. Yesterday, the Wal-Mart nearest me in DE was so packed that people were parking out on the side of the highway and walking into their lot.


You need to shop at different times.  Midnight, 6am... DEAD!  Except we got stuck behind some guy that looked like he was buying for 2 months at one place.  Main problem was places being sold out of stuff.  Varied.

-t

----------


## malkusm

I'm in Brooklyn about half a block from "Zone A" which the mayor ordered an evacuation of. I'm in a first-floor apt, so kind of nervous about the potential storm surge....but riding it out here nonetheless. I estimate something like 6.5-8 feet of vertical water rise would need to happen to get to floor level of my apt.

Here are some "before" pics from my neighborhood, I plan on taking some "after" pics in the same locations if I am able to get out and do so.

----------


## AuH20

Nassau County already started their mandatory evacs on the South Shore. It's going to be a lootfest. Idiots.

----------


## libertygrl

I was just helping my dad clean out the gutters and a fire truck is going around saying mandatory evacuations at 6am tomorrow!  Geez... I thought we had more time than that.  I heard the storm gets worse Mon. night.  I was going to leave in the afternoon but now I'm scrambling to get things all done tonight!

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Just want to also kindly remind everyone/make everyone aware of the fact many EMS agencies are receiving word to NOT go out on emergency calls if the wind speeds are over 40mph, unless it is a critical medical emergency (heart attack, stroke, etc).

----------


## Tinnuhana

This is sub category 1, right? So the damage will be fro the surge and snow. Sand bag over the little windows to the basement, make sure the runoo drains are free of debris. 
Watch where the storm is and if you get horizontal rain, open the windows on the side away from the rain to eequalize air pressure. Check the tide charts to see when the high tides are.

----------


## sailingaway

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...09960642356147

----------


## MelissaWV

> This is sub category 1, right? So the damage will be fro the surge and snow. Sand bag over the little windows to the basement, make sure the runoo drains are free of debris. 
> Watch where the storm is and if you get horizontal rain, open the windows on the side away from the rain to eequalize air pressure. Check the tide charts to see when the high tides are.


There will still be wind damage due to the squeeze between the storm and the front coming, but yes, the big problem is the flooding.

----------


## Dick Chaney

HAARP.

- Dick Chaney

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Yeah, I think we heard you the first time.  Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky, but that's not really helpful right now for those of us struggling at the moment. Not everyone can afford to be prepping.  I did start it at one time, but I just couldn't continue.



It's helpful if you want it to be.  I'm not flogging anyone.  50 pounds of beans and 50 pounds of rice will go a long way.  If it bothers you that I repeat such things, I hope it helps 2 other people plan ahead.  You can be snarky...  I can hack it...  If I get some other people thinking ahead of time, your dislike of that will roll off my back.  We aren't the only people here. (and I've walked outside in the eye of several hurricanes, so I'm not just making $#@! up.)

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> You need to shop at different times.  Midnight, 6am... DEAD!  Except we got stuck behind some guy that looked like he was buying for 2 months at one place.  Main problem was places being sold out of stuff.  Varied.
> 
> -t


I rarely ever shop at a big box store and yesterday was no exception. I was just passing by on the highway and saw it. When I shop for anything from a big box retailer I generally like to shop in the middle of the night or near closing time for non 24 hour stores.

 I have virtually everything I need and had it ahead of time. Flashlights, easily prepared foods, batteries, radio, candles, generator, gas in a 4 wheel drive truck in case flood waters start rising and we need to get out, first aid supplies, jugs of water ready and even loaded weapons ready for any looting (extreme worst case scenario).

----------


## robert9712000

> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...09960642356147


i bet when that happened ,the cop started shooting at the rain to try and bring it into submission.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...09960642356147


Some of Delaware's finest right there. You would think police in the MD/DE area would be better prepared for hurricanes and the like but they are not and tend to panic more than the average citizen and resort to totally idiotic behavior.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...09960642356147


ticket that sunuvabitch.  

he has a headlight out.

----------


## AGRP

Someone needs to be ticked for damaging public property and fined accordingly.

----------


## brandon

Several of the bigger gas stations in my area of SE PA have been sold out of gas since yesterday. I've never seen anything like this before.  We jsut went grocery shopping an hour ago and that wasn't too bad. There was still plenty of bottled water and batteries left, but the gallon water jugs were all gone.  Still pretty calm here overall...no signs of the storm yet other than some drizzling rain.

----------


## MozoVote



----------


## opal

that eye sure looks like it is taking a hard right atm

----------


## MelissaWV

> that eye sure looks like it is taking a hard right atm


Part of that is viewing a curved image that is flattened.  Part of it is expected.  The storm was always expected to start to go out, then swing back sharply due to the coming cold front.

----------


## kathy88

> I was just helping my dad clean out the gutters and a fire truck is going around saying mandatory evacuations at 6am tomorrow!  Geez... I thought we had more time than that.  I heard the storm gets worse Mon. night.  I was going to leave in the afternoon but now I'm scrambling to get things all done tonight!


I'm all for people being safe but people should not be forced to evacuate their homes ever.

----------


## specialkornflake

> I'm all for people being safe but people should not be forced to evacuate their homes ever.


I think in most cases mandatory evacuations simply mean if you get into trouble 911 will not assist.

----------


## MelissaWV

> I'm all for people being safe but people should not be forced to evacuate their homes ever.


Most of the "mandatory evacuation" orders have more to do with what people will do to help you than actually forcing you to leave your house.

It's one of those terms like "state of emergency" (declared sometimes a day or two ahead of actual damage) that has other meanings.

If they are doing it how a lot of places around me do, then people are not forcibly removed from their homes.  If, however, something happens to that person and they dial 9-1-1 they are $#@! out of luck for most things.  Tree fell on your leg?  Caught in a flash flood?  Please tell me why the EMS workers who warned you it might happen must now literally risk their lives to go help you out.  It happens quite a bit, and then the rescuer gets injured or killed.

----------


## awake

Come on people, this storm is economic stimulus!

----------


## libertygrl

Winds gusting even more now.  No rain yet. Will be getting up very early tomorrow morning.  6AM mandatory evacuation in coastal areas of S. Eastern NY.  I finally got everything packed in the car except the cooler which I'll take care of tomorrw.  This is really starting to get to me.   It's one thing if it's a natural disaster but if there's a hidden agenda to take advantage of the situation - THAT's what's beginning to freak me out.  Check out the video.  I'm having visions of Katrina.   Don't want to think so negatively but after months of reading about an "October Surprise,"  I'm getting very nervous.  VERY NERVOUS.  I don't recall this EVER happening in my area before.   Signing out for the night.  My thoughts and prayers to you all. STAY SAFE!

*206th Military Police Company Deployed in Response to Hurricane Sandy*

h ttp://www.dvidshub.net/video/159517/206th-military-police-company-deploys-reponse-hurricane-sandy#.UI3drRw0i4A

(I also heard that areas where people had to evacuate from their communities, will be heavily patrolled by the police who will also use surveilence to protect property).

----------


## Anti Federalist

I know your neighborhood well, I've pushed oil barges into Newton Creek many times.




> I'm in Brooklyn about half a block from "Zone A" which the mayor ordered an evacuation of. I'm in a first-floor apt, so kind of nervous about the potential storm surge....but riding it out here nonetheless. I estimate something like 6.5-8 feet of vertical water rise would need to happen to get to floor level of my apt.
> 
> Here are some "before" pics from my neighborhood, I plan on taking some "after" pics in the same locations if I am able to get out and do so.

----------


## mad cow

> I think in most cases mandatory evacuations simply mean if you get into trouble 911 will not assist.


That is the way it is in Virginia,at least.I was under a mandatory evacuation for Isabel and I didn't leave.2 firemen did come by my house and said I was on my own,emergency wise.
I did not enjoy Isabel.If anything bigger is ever forecasted for here,I'm driving 100 miles inland,finding me a nice hotel and riding it out on a barstool.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Most of the "mandatory evacuation" orders have more to do with what people will do to help you than actually forcing you to leave your house.
> 
> It's one of those terms like "state of emergency" (declared sometimes a day or two ahead of actual damage) that has other meanings.
> 
> If they are doing it how a lot of places around me do, then people are not forcibly removed from their homes.  If, however, something happens to that person and they dial 9-1-1 they are $#@! out of luck for most things.  Tree fell on your leg?  Caught in a flash flood?  Please tell me why the EMS workers who warned you it might happen must now literally risk their lives to go help you out.  It happens quite a bit, and then the rescuer gets injured or killed.


Please...cry me a river.

That's what they, and I used to, get paid for. 

That's what they are they for.

If you freeze up and shut down right when you're needed most, then what's the point?

If that's the case, why are we spending billions of dollars on emergency response systems?

Might as well just shut it all down, and let private companies just come in and clean up the mess afterwards.

God, when did this nation turn into such a bunch of slack jawed fagg ots, scared and whimpering every time the wind blows?

----------


## MelissaWV

> Please...cry me a river.
> 
> That's what they, and I used to, get paid for. 
> 
> That's what they are they for.
> 
> If you freeze up and shut down right when you're needed most, then what's the point?
> 
> If that's the case, why are we spending billions of dollars on emergency response systems?
> ...


This isn't "every time the wind blows."  They will also still respond to certain life-or-death situations, sadly enough, where some moron manages to have a heart attack because waves really are as high and destructive as predicted.  

When did this nation turn into such a bunch of macho-man ignorant pricks that want to "ride it out" but then call 9-1-1 when they get showered with glass or the flood waters they were warned about actually materalize, and expect people to risk their lives to apply a bandage?

Save me Government!

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice



----------


## Nirvikalpa

> Please...cry me a river.
> 
> That's what they, and I used to, get paid for. 
> 
> That's what they are they for.
> 
> If you freeze up and shut down right when you're needed most, then what's the point?
> 
> If that's the case, why are we spending billions of dollars on emergency response systems?
> ...


I work for a private EMS company.  We're not going to save you if you are too foolish to get out.  Not scared and whimpering, just smart.  So things like this don't happen.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> This isn't "every time the wind blows."  They will also still respond to certain life-or-death situations, sadly enough, where some moron manages to have a heart attack because waves really are as high and destructive as predicted.  
> 
> When did this nation turn into such a bunch of macho-man ignorant pricks that want to "ride it out" but then call 9-1-1 when they get showered with glass or the flood waters they were warned about actually materalize, and expect people to risk their lives to apply a bandage?
> 
> Save me Government!


"Morons" have heart attacks all the time and an EMT could just as easily get wrecked driving the ambulance to a heart attack victim on a bright sunny day.

That's what "emergency responders" are supposed to do, respond in emergencies, not run away when an emergency or bad conditions strike.

And I wasn't government funded, doing the emergency response I was doing.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I work for a private EMS company.  We're not going to save you if you are too foolish to get out.  Not scared and whimpering, just smart.


And I ran private rescue and salvage vessels.

It was my job to extricate people *from* dangerous jams that they gotten themselves into.

I dunno, maybe I'm being overly harsh, as a response to the spun up and out of control media on this issue.

----------


## MelissaWV

> "Morons" have heart attacks all the time and an EMT could just as easily get wrecked driving the ambulance to a heart attack victim on a bright sunny day.
> 
> That's what "emergency responders" are supposed to do, respond in emergencies, not run away when an emergency or bad conditions strike.
> 
> And I wasn't government funded, doing the emergency response I was doing.


Just like if there's a powerline across a car... they are expected to lift it up and electrocute themselves, right?  Or are there mitigating circumstances, the difference between the chance of a wreck and having to tie yourself off and wade through a flash flood in 50 mph winds to get to a pseudo-emergency?

----------


## angelatc

> i bet when that happened ,the cop started shooting at the rain to try and bring it into submission.


Promptly issued a warrant for Poseidon.

----------


## malkusm

> And I ran private rescue and salvage vessels.
> 
> It was my job to extricate people *from* dangerous jams that they gotten themselves into.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I'm being overly harsh, as a response to the spun up and out of control media on this issue.


It's one thing to get stuck in a jam....quite another to have literally days of advance notice to prepare or evacuate, and then to not do so, and ask someone else to bear the responsibility of your (in)actions.

I wasn't told to evacuate, although I feel there is a reasonable flood risk at my residence; but I will deal with the consequences of that decision if and when they present themselves.

----------


## angelatc

> Please...cry me a river.
> 
> That's what they, and I used to, get paid for. 
> 
> That's what they are they for.
> 
> If you freeze up and shut down right when you're needed most, then what's the point?
> 
> If that's the case, why are we spending billions of dollars on emergency response systems?


I tend to agree.  If the First Responders don't want to respond because they might get hurt, that's ok.  I get that.  But that means they don't get to call themselves heroes just by nature of their paycheck.  They get seriously put out when people, being people, don't always follow the state's directions.  

I can only assume that when Obamacare kicks in full force, the doctors and nurses will adopt the same attitude.  Don't follow my instructions? Fine - die. Serves you right.

And it's even worse, IMHO.  Not only will they refuse to go in and rescue the mundane "idiots" they so disdain, they physically restrain any common folk who genuinely wants to help.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It's one thing to get stuck in a jam....quite another to have literally days of advance notice to prepare or evacuate, and then to not do so, and ask someone else to bear the responsibility of your (in)actions.
> 
> I wasn't told to evacuate, although I feel there is a reasonable flood risk at my residence; but I will deal with the consequences of that decision if and when they present themselves.


Which is all well and good, and I commend you for that.

Doesn't it irritate you just a little bit to know that the multi billion emergency response system that NYC has in place, will leave you twisting in the wind, literally, if you needed them in this emergency?

Especially after paying, jeez, I can only imagine how much in taxes you pay, every year?

It's like buying insurance and then being told that the company is not going to pay out on a valid claim.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I tend to agree.  If the First Responders don't want to respond because they might get hurt, that's ok.  I get that.  But that means they don't get to call themselves heroes just by nature of their paycheck.
> 
> And it's even worse, IMHO.  Not only will they refuse to go in and rescue the mundane "idiots" they so disdain, they physically restrain any common folk who genuinely wants to help.


Ex-actly!

----------


## Nirvikalpa

> And I ran private rescue and salvage vessels.
> 
> It was my job to extricate people *from* dangerous jams that they gotten themselves into.
> 
> I dunno, maybe I'm being overly harsh, as a response to the spun up and out of control media on this issue.


And you went through training for it, I assume?  Usually EMS/first responders who respond to "dangerous jams" are trained for it, like water rescues.  They are not the average fireman or EMT.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Which is all well and good, and I commend you for that.
> 
> Doesn't it irritate you just a little bit to know that the multi billion emergency response system that NYC has in place, will leave you twisting in the wind, literally, if you needed them in this emergency?
> 
> Especially after paying, jeez, I can only imagine how much in taxes you pay, every year?
> 
> It's like buying insurance and then being told that the company is not going to pay out on a valid claim.


No, it is like buying insurance and them coming out, repeatedly, and telling you that your roof is not up to par and will not stand up to high winds, so it is excluded.  And when you put in a claim for wind damage to your roof, they don't cover it.

That multi-billion dollar system WILL be responding to people who are NOT in the totally-underwater mess of the evacuation zones.

----------


## AuH20

> Winds gusting even more now.  No rain yet. Will be getting up very early tomorrow morning.  6AM mandatory evacuation in coastal areas of S. Eastern NY.  I finally got everything packed in the car except the cooler which I'll take care of tomorrw.  This is really starting to get to me.   It's one thing if it's a natural disaster but if there's a hidden agenda to take advantage of the situation - THAT's what's beginning to freak me out.  Check out the video.  I'm having visions of Katrina.   Don't want to think so negatively but after months of reading about an "October Surprise,"  I'm getting very nervous.  VERY NERVOUS.  I don't recall this EVER happening in my area before.   Signing out for the night.  My thoughts and prayers to you all. STAY SAFE!
> 
> *206th Military Police Company Deployed in Response to Hurricane Sandy*
> 
> h ttp://www.dvidshub.net/video/159517/206th-military-police-company-deploys-reponse-hurricane-sandy#.UI3drRw0i4A
> 
> (I also heard that areas where people had to evacuate from their communities, will be heavily patrolled by the police who will also use surveilence to protect property).


This ain't nothing. Wait until Dec. 21st. If there is some type of pole shift, god help all of us.

----------


## malkusm

> Which is all well and good, and I commend you for that.
> 
> Doesn't it irritate you just a little bit to know that the multi billion emergency response system that NYC has in place, will leave you twisting in the wind, literally, if you needed them in this emergency?
> 
> Especially after paying, jeez, I can only imagine how much in taxes you pay, every year?
> 
> It's like buying insurance and then being told that the company is not going to pay out on a valid claim.


No more than it would for me to pay car insurance year after year, then to not get paid on a claim where I do something stupid such as causing a fire because I clearly violated posted warnings:

----------


## MozoVote

From the Wunderground blog, worth sharing this sight of the season:

----------


## MelissaWV

Okay that is awesome.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> No more than it would for me to pay car insurance year after year, then to not get paid on a claim where I do something stupid such as causing a fire because I clearly violated posted warnings:


So, if you, after years and years and years of faithfully paying insurance premiums, have a wreck and the cloud of surveillance that surrounds us indicates that you were going 1 MPH over the posted speed limit at the time of said wreck, they should be able to deny your claim?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And you went through training for it, I assume?  Usually EMS/first responders who respond to "dangerous jams" are trained for it, like water rescues.  They are not the average fireman or EMT.


Yeah, close to 35 years worth of it, now.

----------


## specialkornflake

If people fail to heed evacuation warnings it only makes sense to not be obligated to rescue them. Although, it might be extra brave to try!

----------


## MozoVote



----------


## Anti Federalist

> Just like if there's a powerline across a car... they are expected to lift it up and electrocute themselves, right?  Or are there mitigating circumstances, the difference between the chance of a wreck and having to tie yourself off and wade through a flash flood in 50 mph winds to get to a pseudo-emergency?


It's an *emergency*.

They are *emergency* responders.

*I* know enough about power lines and grounding to come up with a JSA and action plan to cover that situation.

I would *expect* a fully trained and highly paid professional, who is very quick to remind me that I'm just a common Mundane and need to back off let the "professionals" work, I would *expect* they would be able to do the same.

Hut hutting about and bossing people around and looking at them with disdain when they disregard the "professional" orders, is *not* what I expect.

----------


## phill4paul

> Please...cry me a river.
> 
> That's what they, and I used to, get paid for. 
> 
> That's what they are they for.
> 
> If you freeze up and shut down right when you're needed most, then what's the point?
> 
> If that's the case, why are we spending billions of dollars on emergency response systems?
> ...


  Amen. Heroes? A hero doesn't hide inside till things are safe outside. Christ. I get tired of hearing of all the 'heroes' in government.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Amen. Heroes? A hero doesn't hide inside till things are safe outside. Christ. I get tired of hearing of all the 'heroes' in government.


I guess "hero" means strutting around, bossing people about in their own homes and property and then laughing at them and calling them morons if they need help that might cause a threat to "officer safety".

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't call one of these "heroes" if I was on $#@!ing fire, but still, what the hell are we all paying for if they all go running for the tall grass the second a real emergency looks like it might pop up?

----------


## angelatc

> Amen. Heroes? A hero doesn't hide inside till things are safe outside. Christ. I get tired of hearing of all the 'heroes' in government.


I'm amazed that we're having this conversation.  I dare say that we're the demographic least likely to evacuate.  We have money, guns and food stock, it's only a little hurricane, and we tend to distrust everything the government tells us to do.  Add to that we tend to be loners, with dogs and cats...it's not hard for me to imagine deciding to stay put.  Doesn't make it a good idea, but it doesn't make me a bad person for making it.

----------


## brandon

> 


What does this map even mean? It looks like the colors are indicating "Deg C"  What is Deg C?  It's definitely not degrees celsius because it would be totally wrong.

----------


## MozoVote

Temperature of the cloud tops. The colder they are, the taller the clouds. When you see -70C or less, those are supercells.

Convection in this storm is not especially strong, but it is HUGE and is carrying an immense mass of water that will be dumped on New England and the Applachian mountains tomorrow.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> What does this map even mean? It looks like the colors are indicating "Deg C"  What is Deg C?  It's definitely not degrees celsius because it would be totally wrong.


Negative degrees Celsius.

They assign color coding to the cloud tops.

Red/pink/white hues are the highest/coldest cloud tops.

The higher the cloud top means the lower the atmospheric pressure through all levels thus, the more powerful the storm system.

ETA-Whoops, Mozo beat me to it.

----------


## brandon

Ahh gotcha, thanks guys. I know very little about meteorology but I find it fascinating and I think I need to start doing some more studying. 

We're still dry and calm in SE PA, I can't wait for this thing to get here and see what it's got.  Everything is closed here. All schools and almost all businesses have already announced closures for tomorrow. I've never in my 28 years seen anything like this. We work through 3 feet blizzards here.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Ahh gotcha, thanks guys. I know very little about meteorology but I find it fascinating and I think I need to start doing some more studying. 
> 
> We're still dry and calm in SE PA, I can't wait for this thing to get here and see what it's got.  Everything is closed here. All schools and almost all businesses have already announced closures for tomorrow. I've never in my 28 years seen anything like this. We work through 3 feet blizzards here.


Yah, I have even seen some media reports about how this will be "worse than Katrina".

Umm, no.

----------


## AuH20

> Yah, I have even seen some media reports about how this will be "worse than Katrina".
> 
> Umm, no.


But it's the pampered east coast.

----------


## PreDeadMan

I dunno what the hell to expect my band's show was cancelled lol we were supposed to play today at 7:15 pm got an email around noon or so saying we are cancelled EH... i'm in suffolk county lindenhurst..... i hope it's interesting... i'm looking for some crazy weather =p

----------


## Ignostic?

The hurricane on the pumpkin is spinning the wrong direction.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I'm amazed that we're having this conversation.  I dare say that we're the demographic least likely to evacuate.  We have money, guns and food stock, it's only a little hurricane, and we tend to distrust everything the government tells us to do.  Add to that we tend to be loners, with dogs and cats...it's not hard for me to imagine deciding to stay put.  Doesn't make it a good idea, but it doesn't make me a bad person for making it.


Pretty sure he was only talking about government employees.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> The hurricane on the pumpkin is spinning the wrong direction.


Must be a shellback hurricane.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Must be a shellback hurricane.


ROFL

"The water, it's turning clockwise sir."

"D'Oh! Stupid Lisa Science Queen."

----------


## Sentinelrv

Alright, I am in Pennsville New Jersey, about 300 feet from the Delaware River and about a mile from the Delaware Memorial Bridge. I went out and measured the water at high tide and it was about three feet from spilling over into the street. This is before the storm really hits and tomorrow night is supposed to be a full moon, which will only make it worse. I'm not sure how this is going to play out, so I think I'm going to pack up and head inland away from the water just in case something bad happens.

----------


## kathy88

It's eerily calm outside. The sun is just coming up. I'm a good 4 hours west and north of Philly and everything is closed. Stores are out of water, bread, etc... not sure about gas I filled up yesterday morning. No generators or water filters left. People are taking this one seriously. As I was drifting off to sleep last night I heard a weather dude say they are expecting millions to be without power for up to two weeks. This blows. Pun intended a little.

----------


## malkusm

> Alright, I am in Pennsville New Jersey, about 300 feet from the Delaware River and about a mile from the Delaware Memorial Bridge. I went out and measured the water at high tide and it was about three feet from spilling over into the street. This is before the storm really hits and tomorrow night is supposed to be a full moon, which will only make it worse. I'm not sure how this is going to play out, so I think I'm going to pack up and head inland away from the water just in case something bad happens.


Probably a good call. It looks like the path is taking it near the Delaware Bay at this point.

----------


## angelatc

> It's eerily calm outside. The sun is just coming up. I'm a good 4 hours west and north of Philly and everything is closed. Stores are out of water, bread, etc... not sure about gas I filled up yesterday morning. No generators or water filters left. People are taking this one seriously. As I was drifting off to sleep last night I heard a weather dude say they are expecting millions to be without power for up to two weeks. This blows. Pun intended a little.


If you want to get in the car and come to Michigan, I'll be home to let you in.

----------


## malkusm

The rain lightened up just now so I got out to assess the water. There was no flooding as of yet here in north Brooklyn, however, the East River looked to be 2-3 feet above normal levels and was rushing south at about 20 MPH:



Winds are mostly blowing out of the east (I'd say only 15-20 MPH sustained, but one gust while I was out there was likely in the 40-50 MPH range). The winds should be pushing water up against east-facing shores such as the Manhattan side of the East River, and that's mitigating the water threat on my side...for now.

Good webcam which, coincidentally, faces east from Staten Island into the New York harbor: http://nyharborwebcam.com/

----------


## MozoVote

Forecast is for rain to be heavy in Maryland and Delaware. The National Weather Service is forecasting blizzard conditions in West Virginia ... 2 to 3 FEET of snow with high winds.

----------


## MozoVote

Say good morning to Sandy:

----------


## CrissyNY

Wow, my dad is in Freeport, and the streets are flooding already.  And the storm hasn't even started yet.

He's under mandatory evacuation, he won't leave because he wants to protect the family business from looting.

But I am seriously worried about him.

Hold tight everyone.

----------


## kathy88



----------


## kathy88

You know where this is, huh AF?

----------


## brandon

lol I can't believe I got off work for this, it's not even raining.  I'm going to go out for a drive to see if I can find anything interesting. I'll report back.

----------


## jclay2

I work in the cbot in chicago and we are getting off early due to the guys in nyc leaving work early. Pretty Sweet!

----------


## jonhowe

> I work in the cbot in chicago and we are getting off early due to the guys in nyc leaving work early. Pretty Sweet!


I work on Wall Street and it was assumed I wasn't coming in.

----------


## AuH20

> Wow, my dad is in Freeport, and the streets are flooding already.  And the storm hasn't even started yet.
> 
> He's under mandatory evacuation, he won't leave because he wants to protect the family business from looting.
> 
> But I am seriously worried about him.
> 
> Hold tight everyone.


The National Guard has been deployed into the evac areas to protect looting.

http://online.wsj.com/article/APded8...ecb073d8d.html

----------


## asurfaholic

Looks like a big one. Yall be safe....

Btw, i have never in my life known a tropical storm to hit one side of my state, while a blizzard hits the other. It is really sticking in my head as a weird thing..

----------


## amonasro

We need to send George Clooney, a big Hollywood director and a bunch of clueless actors out to sea on a big fishing rig.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> We need to send George Clooney, a big Hollywood director and a bunch of clueless actors out to sea on a big fishing rig.


LOL.

There are a couple of us here.

mad cow is one.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Not off the top of my head I don't recognize it.

Those boats aren't gonna make it though, I cam tell you that.

This is big money coming for the business I used to be in.




> You know where this is, huh AF?

----------


## kathy88

> I work on Wall Street and it was assumed I wasn't coming in.


Battery Park.

----------


## mac_hine

I live on the New Hampshire seacoast. The wind has really started to pick up in the last hour. The rain is coming down sideways. 

All the gas stations around me still have plenty of fuel. The grocery stores are still pretty stocked up as well. 

It's my gut feeling that a lot of people around here have underestimated this storm's potential.

----------


## malkusm

Pictures from friends of mine....

Ocean City, MD - Famed fishing pier badly damaged



Chincoteague, VA completely underwater

----------


## Nirvikalpa

> Attachment 1628


Atlantic Highlands?

----------


## kathy88

> Atlantic Highlands?


Yes. The Garden State Parkway is flooded and closed from Exit 63 to it's termination in Cape May.

----------


## jonhowe

Just saw people trying to swim in FDR Drive in the 70's.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Yes. The Garden State Parkway is flooded and closed from Exit 63 to it's termination in Cape May.


Ah, got it.

I never got up that way much, I stayed down in Ocean Co. for the most part.

Let's see, exit 63, that's down around AC, IIRC.

The only time I got flooded on the bay was under similar circumstances, the "Perfect Storm" pushed all the water south, and then when the wind shifted it all came back north again and put about 6 inches of water in the house.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Barnegat, Waretown, and Forked River will be next.  I know last night Waretown was already beginning to flood.  Seaside Heights is already flooded, badly...

----------


## kathy88

I think 63 is Long Beach Island. This is getting insane.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Barnegat, Waretown, and Forked River will be next.  I know last night Waretown was already beginning to flood.  Seaside Heights is already flooded, badly...


Lavalette, Ormand Beach, Bay Head, Brick Beach, Normandy...they'll all sink too.

I'm watching a traffic cam at Seaside, where the Rt. 37 bridge dumps off at Rt. 35.

Traffic still moving there.

http://www.511nj.org/cameras.aspx

----------


## jonhowe

Can't figure out how to share this picture, I didn't take it: http://instagram.com/p/RX8Ot-LWmE/

But that's FDR Drive and 79th st, I was just there and it's much more flooded now.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

LOL ==>  *Delaware's* *Governor* Jack Markell  in declaring his level 2 emergency areas, rules: You cannot drive on the roads, if you do, it's $115 fine. of course Television news crews/.gov vehicles are exempt. 

So, .gov can take the time out to write you a fine of $115.

----------


## chudrockz

> LOL ==>  *Delaware's* *Governor* Jack Markell  in declaring his level 2 emergency areas, rules: You cannot drive on the roads, if you do, it's $115 fine. of course Television news crews/.gov vehicles are exempt. 
> 
> So, .gov can take the time out to write you a fine of $115.


Of course! Writing tickets is much easier than doing something useful, like stopping crime or helping people.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Reports of power outages already in NJ: some parts of Bayonne, area of toms river (beachwood), neptune city, belmar...

----------


## CaptUSA

> Reports of power outages already in NJ: some parts of Bayonne, area of toms river (beachwood), neptune city, belmar...


JCP&L has about 35,000 out.  The number is growing.

----------


## jonhowe

There it is.

----------


## malkusm

> Can't figure out how to share this picture, I didn't take it: http://instagram.com/p/RX8Ot-LWmE/
> 
> But that's FDR Drive and 79th st, I was just there and it's much more flooded now.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Some neat webcams.

http://www.wunderground.com/webcams/

----------


## Anti Federalist

> LOL ==>  *Delaware's* *Governor* Jack Markell  in declaring his level 2 emergency areas, rules: You cannot drive on the roads, if you do, it's $115 fine. of course Television news crews/.gov vehicles are exempt. 
> 
> So, .gov can take the time out to write you a fine of $115.


Ah, here we go.

The meat and potatoes of it.

What happens at Level 3?

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Irony @ Ocean City, NJ: 



"Praise God from whom all blessings flow."  Probably not a good idea to have that as a caption as a hurricane flows in...

----------


## kathy88

> Ah, here we go.
> 
> The meat and potatoes of it.
> 
> What happens at Level 3?


Fines are tripled, of course.

----------


## Acala

> What happens at Level 3?


Gold and silver are confiscated.

----------


## Acala

> Irony @ Ocean City, NJ: 
> 
> 
> 
> "Praise God from whom all blessings flow."  Probably not a good idea to have that as a caption as a hurricane flows in...


Hahaha!  Should have changed it to "God Works in Mysterious Ways!"

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Hackensack, NJ:



*facepalm*

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Fines are tripled, of course.





> Gold and silver are confiscated.


I was figuring you just got dragged out of your hovel and shot, but those are both good too.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*D'Oh!*

If that's the RR overpass I'm thinking it is, (Rt 22), that ALWAYS floods there.




> Hackensack, NJ:
> 
> 
> 
> *facepalm*

----------


## CaptUSA

> JCP&L has about 35,000 out.  The number is growing.


Went from 35K to 45K in the last 10 minutes.  I expect it to keep going...

----------


## Anti Federalist

* Goodbye, Cruel World*

Posted by Becky Akers on October 28, 2012 08:04 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/124546.html

We’re all gonna die in the “Frankenstorm.” Or so New York City’s rulers want us to fear. Nanny-sorry, Mayor Mike Bloomberg has warned us of the dire weather over and over: maybe he not only deems us stupid but hard of hearing, too. He’s also dispensed such insultingly obvious advice as “remain calm” —  even as he tries his hardest to scare the pants off us.

Meanwhile, without so much as a single drop of rain yet fallen, Nanny has commanded serfs unlucky enough to live in what bureaucrats designate as “low areas” to evacuate. And he closed the subways at 7 PM tonight. Consider our wimpy, cowardly age: The subways in their century-plus of existence have remained open through blizzards, floods, hurricanes, thunderstorms, torrential rains. New York’s previous führers, however pusillanimous, never shut them down — until a year ago last August, when Nanny did, for the Hurricane That Wasn’t (at least in most of New York City). Now, for the second time in 14 months, Nanny has proclaimed subterranean track and trains vulnerable to a storm above-ground. Halting the subways immobilizes the city, whose rulers have warred so tirelessly against drivers that millions long ago surrendered to unreliable and crowded public transit.

Providing I survive this newest threat to western civilization, I’ll be most interested to learn how much overtime Nanny’s hysteria wrangled for the city’s employees. And, of course, how much more power for himself.

----------


## Acala

> Hackensack, NJ:
> 
> 
> 
> *facepalm*


Must be visiting from Arizona.  We are experts in car surfing.

----------


## Acala

> * Goodbye, Cruel World*
> 
> Posted by Becky Akers on October 28, 2012 08:04 PM
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/124546.html
> 
> We’re all gonna die in the “Frankenstorm.” Or so New York City’s rulers want us to fear. Nanny-sorry, Mayor Mike Bloomberg has warned us of the dire weather over and over: maybe he not only deems us stupid but hard of hearing, too. He’s also dispensed such insultingly obvious advice as “remain calm” —  even as he tries his hardest to scare the pants off us.
> 
> Meanwhile, without so much as a single drop of rain yet fallen, Nanny has commanded serfs unlucky enough to live in what bureaucrats designate as “low areas” to evacuate. And he closed the subways at 7 PM tonight. Consider our wimpy, cowardly age: The subways in their century-plus of existence have remained open through blizzards, floods, hurricanes, thunderstorms, torrential rains. New York’s previous führers, however pusillanimous, never shut them down — until a year ago last August, when Nanny did, for the Hurricane That Wasn’t (at least in most of New York City). Now, for the second time in 14 months, Nanny has proclaimed subterranean track and trains vulnerable to a storm above-ground. Halting the subways immobilizes the city, whose rulers have warred so tirelessly against drivers that millions long ago surrendered to unreliable and crowded public transit.
> ...


The nature of top-down emergency management.  Endlessly stupid, inefficient, expensive, and destructive of individual responsibility and liberty.

----------


## VoluntaryAmerican

> Irony @ Ocean City, NJ: 
> 
> 
> 
> "Praise God from whom all blessings flow."  Probably not a good idea to have that as a caption as a hurricane flows in...


Went to Highschool in OC. Some streets flood there every time there is a decent rain, it ought to be interesting to see how this affects them.

----------


## kathy88



----------


## Bruno

> 


HOLD!!!

----------


## Carlybee

Thoughts and prayers to all affected.  Having been through Ike, I can safely say..you ain't seen nothing yet.  Stay safe!

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Yah, I have even seen some media reports about how this will be "worse than Katrina".
> 
> Umm, no.



I don't see how.  I will say if a lot of people are evacuating, it could turn into quite the giant lootfest.  







> Just saw people trying to swim in FDR Drive in the 70's.



None of you want to swim in that water unless you have a real serious reason.  That will be some of the nastiest liquid on earth by the time people start cleaning up.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

The Garden State Parkway will close in both directions south of Woodbridge (Interchange 129) @ 4PM today.

----------


## KCIndy

_LOL!!_  Okay, I call shenanigans!!! 






>

----------


## CaptUSA

> Went from 35K to 45K in the last 10 minutes.  I expect it to keep going...


Up to 70K now without power in JCP&L.  biggest impacts are still not being felt yet...

----------


## brandon

The wind is just starting to pick up here.  Maybe this thing will actually live up to the hype after all.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

I can't believe the local NYC CBS2, banner feed... *"NY Fed is open today all other financial markets closed"* even though Maiden Lane is right there in lower tip near Battery Park area.

I presume since the FIAT confetti money counterfeiting never rests... it must be 1) very profitable and 2) maintains power to the inner elites.

----------


## Acala

> I can't believe the local NYC CBS2, banner feed... *"NY Fed is open today all other financial markets closed"* even though Maiden Lane is right there in lower tip near Battery Park area.
> 
> I presume since the FIAT confetti money counterfeiting never rests... it must be 1) very profitable and 2) maintains power to the inner elites.


"Hey Germany, all your gold washed away.  Sorry."

----------


## brandon

where the hell is weather bill at?

----------


## CaptUSA

> Up to 70K now without power in JCP&L.  biggest impacts are still not being felt yet...


115K out of power and still counting.  5:00 + estimate for landfall.

----------


## S.Shorland

Crane hanging broken on 57th street manhattan

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Seems most of my town is out of power but we still have it here. Reports of some flooding in some parts but only some mild pooling here at the Liberty Castle. I went out at the crack of dawn and lectured nature about private property rights and strict adherence to the NAP.. I am guessing it paid off thus far.

----------


## CaptUSA

> Seems most of my town is out of power but we still have it here. Reports of some flooding in some parts but only some mild pooling here at the Liberty Castle. I went out at the crack of dawn and lectured nature about private property rights and strict adherence to the NAP.. I am guessing it paid off thus far.


LOL... that's great!

----------


## PursuePeace

> Seems most of my town is out of power but we still have it here. Reports of some flooding in some parts but only some mild pooling here at the Liberty Castle. I went out at the crack of dawn and lectured nature about private property rights and strict adherence to the NAP.. I am guessing it paid off thus far.


LOL..

----------


## kathy88

Give em' hell Joe.

----------


## CaptUSA

> 115K out of power and still counting.  5:00 + estimate for landfall.


160,000 out of power just in JCP&L and still going.

----------


## jbauer

> 


Isn't that a shot from the movie 2012?  Or maybe the movie Obama 2016?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Isn't that a shot from the movie 2012?  Or maybe the movie Obama 2016?


I thought it was from _The Day After Tomorrow_ (2004)

ETA - Confirmed!

https://www.google.com/search?q=The+...w=1020&bih=523

22-23 images in there is a still of that scene

----------


## Danke

> 


*It has gotten worse!!*

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Oh great, now you guys have scared the poor girl...

----------


## CaptUSA

> 160,000 out of power just in JCP&L and still going.


Just went over 200,00 customers without power.  The hype is appearing to be accurate.

----------


## Nirvikalpa



----------


## Danke

http://news.yahoo.com/video/raw-amat...195210659.html

----------


## presence

well, they build 'em on stilts for a reason.

----------


## Keith and stuff

> Just went over 200,00 customers without power.  The hype is appearing to be accurate.


91,000 PSNH customers lost power in NH. I don't know how many people that equals to be it 100,000 or even 200,000. My guess is power loses are worse in RI/CT/MA/NY/NJ. I wonder how many million people will lose power. 3 million? 13 million?

http://outage.psnh.com/outage/outagemap.aspx

----------


## S.Shorland

It just got exceedingly blowy on the new york harbour webcam so hopefully the last few sight seers will head home soon

----------


## malkusm

Just went out for another tour of the neighborhood about an hour ago (just after low tide). Here was the river at high tide this morning (8 AM):




> 


Here is the river an hour ago at low tide:



You can see there's not much difference in water level between the two. A normal tide cycle is about 4.6 feet here, so if you can imagine adding that much to the water in this picture, that's where we should be at high tide around 10-10:30 PM tonight... assuming there is not additional surge, which there likely will be. I'd estimate that to be anywhere from 50-65% the way up that pole in the foreground, which would be plenty to clear the banks and flood some streets here in north Brooklyn.

----------


## KCIndy

> I thought it was from _The Day After Tomorrow_ (2004)
> 
> ETA - Confirmed!
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=The+...w=1020&bih=523
> 
> 22-23 images in there is a still of that scene



Well, I told you I called Shenanigans!!!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Well, I told you I called Shenanigans!!!


I only knew it because, former girlfriends favorite movie.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Apparently there are people on jet skis in the Hudson River.

----------


## KCIndy

> Apparently there are people on jet skis in the Hudson River.


Yeah, they were just showing that on the Weather Channel.  Crazy!

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

I went out for a quick drive around my town before the bulk of the storm moves in. No heavy wind damage visible and no heavy flooding spots yet but the river is pushed to max and is ready to spill over in some spots.

----------


## CaptUSA

> 160,000 out of power just in JCP&L and still going.


Just topped 300,000 just in JCP&L.  We may be on our way to a record with the number of people without power from a storm.

----------


## jonhowe

OUt for a beer here in NYC. Very, very windy.

----------


## phill4paul

> *It has gotten worse!!*


  You betcha!

----------


## kathy88

Winds are starting to really pick up by me. Should not have power much longer.

----------


## KramerDSP

My Aunt decided not to evacuate and is already regretting it. She is situated on Mill Creek Road in Manahawkin, NJ by the bay area. She sent me pictures of water near her front door and the bay water in the back patio. She anticipates having to stay up in the second floor of the house if the waters rise. My dad and brother warned her, but she is too stubborn. I am keeping a close eye on this area by Long Island Beach, NJ. Any info would be greatly apprecisted.

----------


## Anti Federalist

* Surviving the Apocalypse So Far*

Posted by Becky Akers on October 29, 2012 03:00 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ml#more-124497

The NPR radio station here announced that the serfs on New Jersey’s coast who have ignored Their Rulers’ orders to evacuate and are instead riding out the storm have passed the point of no return. They’re stuck in their comfortable, beloved homes instead of Leviathan’s dangerous shelters until Sandy passes, poor things. Between the lines is the implication that these rebels deserve what they get. Oh, they certainly do.

Meanwhile, with Our Rulers commanding us to stay inside, I felt duty-bound to head out into the wild and woolly streets for a stroll. Nor was I the only disobedient slave: The streets aren’t bustling as they usually do, but a surprising number of businesses are open, and people are shopping, dining, living their lives despite Our Rulers. From snatches of conversation I’ve overheard, it seems that many folks have tired of government’s histrionics. They turn almost as jaundiced an eye as we do on the prognostications of impending doom from politicians who can’t figure out how to spend less money than they steal, let alone predict hurricanes.

I wandered over to the East River and its promenade, where a goodly number of New Yorkers had gathered to enjoy this robust weather. Some rain is falling, yes, but so far in this area, the day has been pretty much like any other stormy one. The promenade features a stairway leading to a bridge over the FDR highway, a major artery running down Manhattan’s East Side. Though heavy traffic on this route normally clogs it, the FDR was eerily empty — perhaps because everyone was on the promenade, enjoying Mother Nature’s exhilarating show! And what a show it is: the river racing, the whitecaps, the wind gusting so that a gal knows she’s alive, whipping splatters of rain!

As we were leaving the bridge, my husband speculated that perhaps the cops had shut the FDR: How else to account for the long patches of glistening, empty asphalt? And I wondered whether one day soon, enjoying storms will be yet another innocent pleasure the State steals from us when its “advice” to stay indoors hardens into a regulation — all on the pretext that such wimpiness keeps us safe.

Fortunately, we drowned such gloomy thoughts with a delicious dish of shrimp lo mein at our favorite Chinese restaurant. I asked the waiter, whom we know and who lives in Queens, how he arrived at work with the subways closed. He said simply, “Car service” — an exorbitant expense for such an employee. And he’s ready to spend the night there at the restaurant if the government closes the roads, too, in addition to the subways. I marveled at the dedication and loyalty of these hard workers. While Our deluded, deceitful Rulers praise themselves and “first responders,” it is the taxpayers they persecute and pester who are the heroes.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> My Aunt decided not to evacuate and is already regretting it. She is situated on Mill Creek Road in Manahawkin, NJ by the bay area. She sent me pictures of water near her front door and the bay water in the back patio. She anticipates having to stay up in the second floor of the house if the waters rise. My dad and brother warned her, but she is too stubborn. I am keeping a close eye on this area by Long Island Beach, NJ. Any info would be greatly apprecisted.


Once the storm center passes by, the flooding should ease quickly.

The would reverse the winds, and stop pushing all the water up into Beach Haven and where she is.

----------


## Roxi

Local news here just reported a total of a million without power from NC to NH. Am I to understand the "storm" hasn't actually hit yet?

----------


## angelatc

> Not off the top of my head I don't recognize it.
> 
> Those boats aren't gonna make it though, I cam tell you that.
> 
> This is big money coming for the business I used to be in.


I wondered about that! Shouldn't those boats be out, or in?

----------


## CaptUSA

> Local news here just reported a total of a million without power from NC to NH. Am I to understand the "storm" hasn't actually hit yet?


It's more than that.  My company already has 1/2 million.  And the footprint on the coast is small.

----------


## KCIndy

> You betcha!


"You MANIACS!  *You blew it up!!!*...."

Nahhhh... it was just Hurricane Sandy!

----------


## KramerDSP

> Once the storm center passes by, the flooding should ease quickly.
> 
> The would reverse the winds, and stop pushing all the water up into Beach Haven and where she is.


Thanks, AF. Passed the info along. I spent my summers in Ocean City, NJ. Love that place! It's very unsettling to see Ocean City under water.

----------


## brandon

> My Aunt decided not to evacuate and is already regretting it. She is situated on Mill Creek Road in Manahawkin, NJ by the bay area. She sent me pictures of water near her front door and the bay water in the back patio. She anticipates having to stay up in the second floor of the house if the waters rise. My dad and brother warned her, but she is too stubborn. I am keeping a close eye on this area by Long Island Beach, NJ. Any info would be greatly apprecisted.


I'm not sure about her specific location, but Chris Christie just held a press conference and said that they are stopping all emergency services to the barrier islands until tomorrow morning. No more rescue efforts will be made until then. He advised to just go to the highest level you can and wait till morning, and then call to be rescued if you need to.

It looks like the eye just landed, and while there definitely is massive flooding in some areas, it looks like the storm wasn't as bad as they said. No reported fatalities yet.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Yeah, they were just showing that on the Weather Channel.  Crazy!


less crazy than swimming in sewage foam.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

I was just called and may be working overnight... I took a walk outside and the sky is literally lighting up bright aqua every few minutes. Police/Fire/EMS scanner is going crazy. Winds picked up here, prob gusting to 70+mph.

----------


## Danke

> OUt for a beer here in NYC. Very, very windy.


You're in our prayers.

----------


## One Last Battle!

Building in Manhattan collapsed, apparently

----------


## MelissaWV

> I'm not sure about her specific location, but Chris Christie just held a press conference and said that they are stopping all emergency services to the barrier islands until tomorrow morning. No more rescue efforts will be made until then. He advised to just go to the highest level you can and wait till morning, and then call to be rescued if you need to.
> 
> It looks like the eye just landed, and while there definitely is massive flooding in some areas, it looks like the storm wasn't as bad as they said. No reported fatalities yet.


Well, except that guy on the boat.

----------


## Danke

> Building in Manhattan collapsed, apparently

----------


## jonhowe

> Building in Manhattan collapsed, apparently


Just a super tall crane.

----------


## ghengis86

> Just a super tall crane.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-29/hurricane-1-construction-crane-0

----------


## angelatc

> Just a super tall crane.


Construction crane.  That happened once when we were in Manhattan, and there wasn't even a hurricane.  

And now for something completely different: http://google.org/crisismap/sandy-2012

And I wonder where Cowlesy is?

----------


## brandon

Well this storm is pretty much a flop where I live. Irene was way worse. Thinking about hitting up the bar soon.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Well this storm is pretty much a flop where I live. Irene was way worse. Thinking about hitting up the bar soon.


lol It's not actually done as far as a weather system, but be glad you're not knee-deep in water like a lot of areas, and having to clean up the muck (which might even freeze over) for the next few weeks/months.

----------


## jay_dub



----------


## S.Shorland

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydro...okx&gage=batn6

----------


## Bruno

> Well this storm is pretty much a flop where I live. Irene was way worse. Thinking about hitting up the bar soon.


High tide and winds shifting from the south should bring more storm surge, reportedly.

----------


## Keith and stuff

New Hampshire State Senate still did his planned sign wave today. Please thank him by liking his page. He already has 48 likes on the photo. https://www.facebook.com/andy4senate

----------


## angelatc

> High tide should being more storm surge, reportedly.


Yes, saying that the storm is coming in simultaneously with high tide and a full moon - worst possible scenario for flooding.

----------


## brandon

I'm definitely glad it wasn't too bad.  I think a lot of people around here are going to stop trusting the weather people after this. So much hype over Irene last year, which turned out to be pretty much nothing. Then exponentially more hype this year for Sandy. All the weather people were coming down hard on the skeptics, calling us fools and what not, but it's even less than Irene.  

I do really feel bad for the people in Jersey or wherever that are flooded. I'm not trying to minimize their problems. I'm just pointing out that in my specific area they were way way off, two years in a row now.  They predicted 10 inches of rain here and we probably only got like 1.5 so far and it's not even raining anymore.

----------


## Danke

> C
> 
> And I wonder where Cowlesy is?

----------


## kathy88

Lower Manhattan.

----------


## angelatc

They cut it off because they were afraid that the salt water would muck up the machines if the power was on.  Imagine how quiet it must be.

New record high water in lower Manhattan already, and they expect it to rise quite a bit more.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

My favorite seafood place just went floating down the Choptank River into the Chesapeake Bay. Lots of landmarks in Ocean City,MD are also gone.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

The center of the storm will be making landfall about an hours drive north of me soon. The winds here have really picked up and the rains just keep falling. How I still have power and am not flooded out are beyond me.

----------


## angelatc

> The center of the storm will be making landfall about an hours drive north of me soon. The winds here have really picked up and the rains just keep falling. How I still have power and am not flooded out are beyond me.


The south side of the storm usually doesn't get hit nearly as hard as the north side does.

----------


## angelatc

Heh - it's technically illegal to keep the market closed for 4 days in a row.  They should have opened this morning.

----------


## Warmon

> The south side of the storm usually doesn't get hit nearly as hard as the north side does.


This storm has the highest concentrations of wind in the south west quadrant. As of 5pm, they were recorded at 90mph sustained with gust to 115mph.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Just came back from a driving inspection and flooding in my area is imminent. Thinking of sending my Wife and kids to her Mom's.

----------


## Bruno

> Just came back from a driving inspection and flooding in my area is imminent. Thinking of sending my Wife and kids to her Mom's.


Good plan, be on the safe side!

----------


## ghengis86

Pics of NY underwater here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...water-new-york

----------


## devil21

Be safe out there everyone.  Its windy and cold even down here in western NC.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> I'm definitely glad it wasn't too bad.  I think a lot of people around here are going to stop trusting the weather people after this. So much hype over Irene last year, which turned out to be pretty much nothing. Then exponentially more hype this year for Sandy. All the weather people were coming down hard on the skeptics, calling us fools and what not, but it's even less than Irene.  
> 
> I do really feel bad for the people in Jersey or wherever that are flooded. I'm not trying to minimize their problems. I'm just pointing out that in my specific area they were way way off, two years in a row now.  They predicted 10 inches of rain here and we probably only got like 1.5 so far and it's not even raining anymore.


Its almost impossible to forecast storm impacts for specific locations. We had a storm this year, where my county saw worse conditions than places closer to the storm. 

The only fool is the person who is complacent and ignores people who have years of schooling and experience. Better to be safe than sorry.

Also, this is Manhattan:



Yeah, I'm sure those people are real pissed off about the hype.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999



----------


## brandon

wow that's insane.

----------


## awake

Hate say it this early but this is an environmental Pearl Harbor.

Here is the early propaganda...

----------


## presence

www.wunderground.com/wundermap/

has evacuation zones and *live storm surge levels* across the coast, the storm surge numbers seem to be a new feature.

Those pics from NY included a pic from avenue c and 13, with the person hip deep at the yield sign; that was *in the evacuation zone*.

----------


## kathy88

NYC is an absolute nightmare from the look of those pics. North Central PA about 40 MPH winds and driving rain. I still have lights though. Kids are disappointed so far. Lol.

----------


## ghengis86

Lonely?



Hoboken


Lights out for downtown Mahattan



Lower Mahattan

----------


## Bruno

Flooding lower Manhatten tunnels amd subway stations.  Imagine that will take awhile to pump out and clean up.

----------


## ghengis86

Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel



Battery park is now flooded

----------


## angelatc

> NYC is an absolute nightmare from the look of those pics. North Central PA about 40 MPH winds and driving rain. I still have lights though. Kids are disappointed so far. Lol.


Yeah, it's the kids that are disappointed.  I hear you.

----------


## torchbearer

now i know how people from Cali feel when they see people from Maine freaking out over a Mag 3 earthquake.

----------


## Bruno

Mega pics

----------


## ronpaulfollower999



----------


## ghengis86

Hoboken subway station about to flooded!

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Cat 1 cane isn't much for us in the south, but this is probably the equivalent of a blizzard hitting Central Florida.

----------


## kathy88

A house in jersey just took out a bridge and there are reports of numerous huge fires.

----------


## presence

> Hate say it this early but this is an environmental Pearl Harbor.



What I find interesting is that while we are about to funnel billions into continually rebuilding doomed coastal cities (I believe in global warming and eminent sea rise, don't mind me), China in funneling billions into building self sustaining inland eco cities from scratch.  Its all state money; we put things back the way they were with harm reduction Keyensian "activist stabilization policy" state money, while the "command economy" at least makes progress towards a better path.      http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ies/56219286/1  One would almost say that keyensian principles in this case are actually worse than command principles.

have you guys seen the disabled swinging crane that's on cbs new's webcam?http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-201_162-...dy/?tag=custom

also I'm a map freak, don't mind me, but there are power outage maps up for NY, NJ, and CT at their perspective power company sites:

This is some holy $#@!, actually journalism from CBS News that has those links many many more, I'm proud of them today:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...ux;mostPopular

----------


## Anti Federalist

Meanhwile, in NH.

(What? Too soon?)

----------


## MozoVote

I think it's fair to say this was a national event. The weather forecast for Madison WI mentions cooler temperatures due to the cirrus deck from Sandy. St. Louis MO mentions increased fire danger from the dry winds circling south. This is a thousand miles from landfall!

We've had big hurricanes before, but they usually only affect "a few" states.

----------


## MelissaWV

> now i know how people from Cali feel when they see people from Maine freaking out over a Mag 3 earthquake.


You understand, I hope, that "Category" does not mean anywhere near as much as people love to think?  A TS or even a TD can displace people easily, and your house being entirely underwater or a restaurant floating down the river past you is not going to go away just for saying "well but it wasn't a Cat 5!".  No one is really talking about extensive wind damage.  This is a huge flooding event.  Boohoo it wasn't Katrina.  Well Katrina wasn't that friggin' "powerful" when it made landfall, either, if you're going to stick to categories.  But does that matter? Hmm.

Out of the top 30 costliest storms, 4 were Cat1... and 1 was even a TS.  Only 3 were Category 5 when they struck.  Katrina was a Category 3.  

So when you have a good belly laugh at people waist deep in water before the storm surge even peaks, maybe you should consider how silly you sound?

----------


## brandon

Melissa, I mostly agree with you but a lot of people are talking about very extensive wind damage. There's already been two homes destroyed in my town from falling trees in the last couple hours.  It won't be pretty by the morning in some areas.

----------


## ghengis86

Ground Zero

----------


## MelissaWV

> Melissa, I mostly agree with you but a lot of people are talking about very extensive wind damage. There's already been two homes destroyed in my town from falling trees in the last couple hours.  It won't be pretty by the morning in some areas.


There is always some.  My point was that "category" leads people to think "oh it's a TS now; that won't do much... people are so overreacting."  These are not 150 mph sustained winds, no, but it is a major weather event.  I am the first to laugh at people in the NE when they freak out over a summer thunderstorm, but mocking this just seems dumb to me.  There are several people on the boards literally trying to figure out if their homes are going to flood, fall apart, or what, and we STILL have to have a King Troll who has to say "pshhh drama queens."

----------


## presence

> Flooding lower Manhatten tunnels amd subway stations.  Imagine that will take awhile to pump out and clean up.


In terms of sanitation its probably the best thing that could have ever happened.  A good saltwater wash.

"winds will continue to wind down *gradually* throught the rest of the week" 

http://www.weather.com/news/weather-...-five-20121028

their emphasis.

Also, they're reporting *appalachian blizzard* conditions WV V NC.  10 inches down.

and darkness creeps in NYC:

----------


## Keith and stuff

> 


I was just in Manhattan. Here is how it looked on Sunday, before the storm - there were even beautiful leaves on the trees.

----------


## cindy25

stock exchange and subway both gone

----------


## V3n

CNN just reported 3 feet of water on the Stock Exchange floor.

----------


## Bruno

This is mostly a flooding event, the constant sustained winds will be an issue but flooding by far will cause billions more in damage.  And Melissa says it well as always, who gives a damn what category it is when tunnels amd neighborhoods are flooded. 

Flooding causes more property damage and deaths than other natural disasters.

----------


## Dr.3D

> stock exchange and subway both gone


That's salt water too.  It will cause a lot of damage to the electrical systems.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Well...I can't say I'm too overly depressed over the news about the NYSE.

----------


## opal

where's FEMA?  no really.. are they parked in Rochester or what?

----------


## ghengis86

> That's salt water too.  It will cause a lot of damage to the electrical systems.


Hopefully the colo'd algo's servers are trashed

----------


## torchbearer

> You understand, I hope, that "Category" does not mean anywhere near as much as people love to think?  A TS or even a TD can displace people easily, and your house being entirely underwater or a restaurant floating down the river past you is not going to go away just for saying "well but it wasn't a Cat 5!".  No one is really talking about extensive wind damage.  This is a huge flooding event.  Boohoo it wasn't Katrina.  Well Katrina wasn't that friggin' "powerful" when it made landfall, either, if you're going to stick to categories.  But does that matter? Hmm.
> 
> Out of the top 30 costliest storms, 4 were Cat1... and 1 was even a TS.  Only 3 were Category 5 when they struck.  Katrina was a Category 3.  
> 
> So when you have a good belly laugh at people waist deep in water before the storm surge even peaks, maybe you should consider how silly you sound?


media driven freak out is media driven freak out.
you should see from my perspective how silly all of this sounds.

now for your education:



> The storm rapidly intensified after entering the Gulf, growing from a Category 3 hurricane to a Category 5 hurricane in just nine hours. This rapid growth was due to the storm's movement over the "unusually warm" waters of the Loop Current, which increased wind speeds.[10] On Saturday, August 27, the storm reached Category 3 intensity on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale, becoming the third major hurricane of the season. An eyewall replacement cycle disrupted the intensification, but caused the storm to nearly double in size. Katrina again rapidly intensified, attaining Category 5 status on the morning of August 28 and reached its peak strength at 1800 UTC that day, with maximum sustained winds of 175 mph (280 km/h) and a minimum central pressure of 902 mbar (26.6 inHg). The pressure measurement made Katrina the fourth most intense Atlantic hurricane on record at the time, only to be surpassed by Hurricanes Rita and Wilma later in the season; it was also the strongest hurricane ever recorded in the Gulf of Mexico at the time. However, this record was later broken by Hurricane Rita.[3]



what happened to sandy when she made landfall? she is now just a low pressure system. its something hurricane's do when they leave their water bed. they reduce in intensity. Sandy was a Cat 1, now she is just low pressure.
Katrina was Cat 5, but when hit land reduced to a 3. the surge winds were generated by a Cat 5.

----------


## kathy88

I'm watching the weather channel. They say no flooding at exchange. Bloom bergs gonna give a press conf now

----------


## MelissaWV

> where's FEMA?  no really.. are they parked in Rochester or what?


FEMA cannot swoop in until the storm has more or less passed and they can set up shop somewhere.  While FEMA botches things up, this would be true of any other relief effort.  There's no point in bringing in water and food if people can't really leave to get them yet.

----------


## torchbearer

Katrina: *with maximum sustained winds of 175 mph*

----------


## MelissaWV

I don't need education on hurricanes, thanks.  You're an expert in Louisiana?  Pffbt.  Whatever.

Oh no it was a Cat 5 BEFORE IT HIT and then weakened to a Cat 3, which several of the other storms on the "costliest" list didn't do.  They were STRONGER STORMS that caused LESS DAMAGE, blowing your little "category" theory out of the water.  Katrina's damage total was caused almost entirely by stupidity.

Even if you want to laugh to yourself about this, don't you think it's just in a little bit of bad taste as fellow forum members are trying to salvage their homes?  Or do you want so badly to feel superior that you don't care?

----------


## MelissaWV

> Katrina: *with maximum sustained winds of 175 mph*


You really are obsessed purely with wind, which is kind of silly given the bulk of the damage with most tropical systems isn't even wind-related.  That's reserved for actual Cat5 monsters, of which there have been very few.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Postcards from a hyped up storm

Such a yawner.

I've seen worse in a thunderstorm.

----------


## ghengis86

> You really are obsessed purely with wind, which is kind of silly given the bulk of the damage with most tropical systems isn't even wind-related.  That's reserved for actual Cat5 monsters, of which there have been very few.


Just curious, what cause the storm surge then if not wind?

----------


## torchbearer

> I don't need education on hurricanes, thanks.  You're an expert in Louisiana?  Pffbt.  Whatever.
> 
> Oh no it was a Cat 5 BEFORE IT HIT and then weakened to a Cat 3, which several of the other storms on the "costliest" list didn't do.  They were STRONGER STORMS that caused LESS DAMAGE, blowing your little "category" theory out of the water.  Katrina's damage total was caused almost entirely by stupidity.
> 
> Even if you want to laugh to yourself about this, don't you think it's just in a little bit of bad taste as fellow forum members are trying to salvage their homes?  Or do you want so badly to feel superior that you don't care?


My category theory? I didn't make up hurricane categories.
I'm address the freaking out that both the media and some people on here are doing.
Sorry if you lose a home. That $#@! happen all the time here. People survive. They always do.

----------


## torchbearer

> Just curious, what cause the storm surge then if not wind?


I'm going to let Melissa educate you on this one.

----------


## angelatc

> Well...I can't say I'm too overly depressed over the news about the NYSE.


Like I said earlier, it's technically illegal to keep the markets closed for more than 3 days in a row. Tomorrow will be day 4.  I assume (maybe I shouldn't!) they have an emergency backup center somewhere that they can opn - if not, I wonder what the effect of the inability to trade will be?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> My category theory? I didn't make up hurricane categories.
> I'm address the freaking out that both the media and some people on here are doing.
> Sorry if you lose a home. That $#@! happen all the time here. People survive. They always do.


Andrew...there.

Katrina...there.

Rita...there.

This breeze of wind ain't none of the above.

----------


## ghengis86

> Like I said earlier, it's technically illegal to keep the markets closed for more than 3 days in a row. Tomorrow will be day 4.  I assume (maybe I shouldn't!) they have an emergency backup center somewhere that they can opn - if not, I wonder what the effect of the inability to trade will be?


Really?  I didn't know that.

----------


## Roxi

> Building in Manhattan collapsed, apparently



NYT just tweeted this video of that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiyh...ature=youtu.be

----------


## MelissaWV

> Just curious, what cause the storm surge then if not wind?


Are you asking what causes the surge itself, or what causes the damage related to a storm surge (which is a component of what we're discussing)?

The storm surge itself is not just caused by wind, or else we'd see the highest storm surges with the highest winds.  There are other factors, like where it's happening, how low the central pressure is, when the storm hits, etc..  Of course there's also the matter of how prepared the area is for flooding.  An awful lot of NYC is underground or leads to it, and the water's not particularly low on a good day.

Torch is right, though; this is kid stuff.  What's a city or two underwater?

----------


## torchbearer

> Andrew...there.
> 
> Katrina...there.
> 
> Rita...there.
> 
> This breeze of wind ain't none of the above.


What were you doing in the gulf? do you ever make landfall? we can meet up if i know in advanced you are making port near new orleans. (pm me)

----------


## Anti Federalist

Can't say I felt too bad about this.

----------


## robert9712000

Brave thrill seeker or suicidal?




added another

----------


## presence

> Can't say I felt too bad about this.


Salvage rights?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> What were you doing in the gulf? do you ever make landfall? we can meet up if i know in advanced you are making port near new orleans. (pm me)


Will do.

----------


## angelatc

> Really?  I didn't know that.


Yes, banks too.  That's why banks and exchanges are always open the day after Thanksgiving - they never get a four day weekend.

----------


## MelissaWV

AF - Maybe someone called 9-1-1 and the EMS/Police read your post, deciding to respond anyhow

----------


## Dr.3D

> Can't say I felt too bad about this.
> 
> snip


Just means they will get new vehicles at the taxpayers expense.

----------


## torchbearer

> Salvage rights?


lol.

----------


## presence

> Brave thrill seeker or suicidal?


nanny government bait

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Brave thrill seeker or suicidal?


Hey hey, Shark River inlet!

$#@!, that wasn't but 8-10 foot, well within the capability of that boat, assuming nothing breaks and your engines keep running.

I'm guessing they are trying to save their boat, about $250,000 - $500,000 worth, by getting it away from other boats breaking loose and seeking shelter elsewhere, I'm guessing maybe Manasquan or, if it was me, run up the beach and duck up behind Sandy Hook.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> AF - Maybe someone called 9-1-1 and the EMS/Police read your post, deciding to respond anyhow


LOL - Yeah maybe.

Whoop whoop...bwoooooooo (make dying cop car siren sound in your head).

----------


## MelissaWV

> Hey hey, Shark River inlet!
> 
> $#@!, that wasn't but 8-10 foot, well within the capability of that boat, assuming nothing breaks and your engines keep running.


Yeah if they think that's a problem... well... tomorrow will bring more photos, but there's always the inevitable pictures of the boat in a tree... boat in a house... boat in a street... boat on top of a building...

----------


## Dr.3D

> Yeah if they think that's a problem... well... tomorrow will bring more photos, but there's always the inevitable pictures of the boat in a tree... boat in a house... boat in a street... boat on top of a building...


Yeah, those kids will do the darnedest things.

They used to just put the buggy on the roof of the barn around Halloween.

----------


## angelatc

> Hey hey, Shark River inlet!
> 
> $#@!, that wasn't but 8-10 foot, well within the capability of that boat, assuming nothing breaks and your engines keep running.


Don't people with boats take them out in storms to keep them from getting washed up on shore, or beat up in the docks?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Yeah if they think that's a problem... well... tomorrow will bring more photos, but there's always the inevitable pictures of the boat in a tree... boat in a house... boat in a street... boat on top of a building...


That's what they are trying to avoid.

Ain't no trees at sea.

Nor houses.

Nor streets.

Nor buildings.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Don't people with boats take them out in storms to keep them from getting washed up on shore, or beat up in the docks?


When I was on a ship in the navy, we had to get out to sea before a typhoon would hit so we would be safer than if we were in port.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Coming soon to a Manhattan street....

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Don't people with boats take them out in storms to keep them from getting washed up on shore, or beat up in the docks?


Well, you try to.

There may not have been time for these folks.

They may not have been able to get a truck, trailer and ramp suitable for that boat.

The "hard" may be underwater and everybody's boats that had been pulled out of the water may be floating away and wrecking into the trees, buildings and streets Melissa mentioned.

The only marinas I know of in Belmar are all pretty low lying.

----------


## robert9712000

I,d say Lower Manhattan is going to be completely under water by tomorrow morning.Plus ive seen videos of fires starting that i dont think the fire department can get too.might end up being alot more damage than people think.

----------


## angelatc

> Coming soon to a Manhattan street....


We want Cowlesy!

----------


## Indy Vidual

> ......
> I'm guessing they are trying to save their boat, about $250,000 - $500,000 worth, by getting it away from other boats breaking loose and seeking shelter elsewhere...


...and doing this 2 days ago would have been less exciting.

----------


## Indy Vidual

*Over 2,200,000 people are without power*, if you care about others this might be a good time to show it.




> Postcards from a hyped up storm
> 
> Such a yawner.
> 
> I've seen worse in a thunderstorm.

----------


## ghengis86

Storm surge is receding. 2-3 more feet and flooding will subside

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> *Over 2,200,000 people are without power*, if you care about others this might be a good time to show it.


That post was sarcasm btw (if you couldn't tell).

----------


## Indy Vidual

Looting?
FEMA buses to Citi field?
Has the Red Cross been denied access, yet?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Storm surge is receding. 2-3 more feet and flooding will subside


High tide has passed as well.

Was roughly 2100 local for NYC area.

----------


## brandon

I just attempted to take my dog out back, and in the 30 seconds I was out there I saw a huge transformer explode down the street and the roof of our patio ripped off and went flying. Scared the $#@! out of me. Can't believe we still have power.

----------


## torchbearer

> High tide has passed as well.
> 
> Was roughly 2100 local for NYC area.


think about how septic that water is going to be flowing out of new york.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I just attempted to take my dog out back, and in the 30 seconds I was out there I saw a huge transformer explode down the street and the roof of our patio ripped off and went flying. Scared the $#@! out of me. Can't believe we still have power.


Did that make your dog take care of his business any faster?

----------


## amonasro

I think part of the hype is because Manhattan is flooding. If you've never been there, you can't believe how small and dense it is. Nearly 70,000 people per square mile, with money, business and entertainment literally oozing from every crevasse.

----------


## ghengis86

> Did that make your dog take care of his business any faster?


No, but his owner probably did!

----------


## angelatc

OK, just in case I'm not the only one wondering where Cowlesy was hiding, he messaged me on Facebook, and he is indeed safely high and dry.

----------


## Dr.3D

> No, but his owner probably did!


Yeah, hope he still has running water so he can take a shower and launder his shorts.

----------


## V3n

> NYT just tweeted this video of that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiyh...ature=youtu.be


Piers Morgan said this was an 'illegal tourist hotel' - said there were 15 unidentified Austrians inside.  I'm not making this up!

----------


## donnay

http://12160.info/page/photos-major-...ource=activity

----------


## Nirvikalpa

We lost power around 3 hours ago. Our river behind my house rose ~6ft in 2 hours and reached my house. We're dry so far. Grandparents house has a couple inches. Down the street my neighbors have ~8ft sitting in their garage. Reports of multiple water rescues here as the roads are all flooded from anywhere bt 6 inches to 4 ft. Rooftop rescues being performed in sayreville nj.

----------


## Anti Federalist

LOLOLOLOL

"We now go live to Ollie Williams and the BlackuWeather forecast!"

----------


## ghengis86

> LOLOLOLOL
> 
> "We now go live to Ollie Williams and the BlackuWeather forecast!"


AF is #Winning!

----------


## Nirvikalpa

Seriously what the $#@! is wrong with you people.

----------


## jonhowe

The video of 78th and FDR flooding is two aves from me. I pass that building several times a week. Two aves higher up, though, no flooding.

----------


## sparebulb

> http://12160.info/page/photos-major-...ource=activity


I hate flooded elevators.  I still remember the last one I saw....

----------


## Anti Federalist

NYPD readies SWAT for Sandy's failure to follow an officer's commands.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Seriously what the $#@! is wrong with you people.


What do you mean?

----------


## sparebulb

damned double post

damned double post

----------


## Dr.3D

> NYPD readies SWAT for Sandy's failure to follow an officer's commands.


"Stop I say, stop or I will holler stop again!"

----------


## thequietkid10

Generally when it comes to this much fear mongroling and hype, (especially when it comes to weather)  I roll my eyes, because it never lives up to the hype.  This time, it looks like I was wrong.

----------


## brandon

> Did that make your dog take care of his business any faster?


lol I wish. He's scared out of his mind and hasn't been able to take a dump since this morning. I hope he can hold it to tomorrow!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

They sure come crawling out of the woodwork when ever an "emergency" strikes...




> Along with the outages came calls from politicians for Maryland's electric utilities to improve their infrastructure.
> 
> State senators Jim Rosapepe and Brian Frosh released a statement Monday evening saying that Hurricane Sandy exemplifies why the utilities need to "*acknowledge climate change* and modernize the electric infrastructure."
> 
> "It's past time for BGE and PEPCO to move into the 21st Century -- by making scientifically-based business decisions and investing in burying power lines and other modernizations of our electric power infrastructure to withstand *extreme weather caused by climate change*," Rosapepe said in the statement.


btw: 300,000 (1 in 10) w/ out power in MD, but does not include 41,200 who power has been restored to.

-t

----------


## ghengis86

PA | HYNDMAN |**EVACUATION**| - | VOLUNTARY EVAC DUE TO NUCLEAR WARNING IN BEDFORD COUNTY. UEA325 | UEA451 |




Keep an eye on Bedford county PA:

Babcock & Wilcox Co. says a test facility for its new class of mini nuclear reactors is fully operational.

The Integrated System Test facility in Bedford County will test the mPower modular reactor's design and performance. Energy generated by a nuclear core will be simulated by heating the reactor electrically.

The mPower reactors will generate 125 megawatts.

Construction of the test facility began in March 2010. It was commissioned in February and underwent a startup test and power ascension program.

The facility also will test the thermal hydraulic performance of the company's once through steam generator.

http://www.roanoke.com/business/wb/311744

----------


## Petar

> What do you mean?


She's saying that you should practice meditation so that you can become at peace with yourself and others.

----------


## ghengis86

Fukushima part two: New Jersey Style?

The nation's oldest nuclear power plant is on alert after waters from a colossal storm reached high levels.
*
Oyster Creek in Lacey Township, N.J., was already offline for regular maintenance before Sandy, a superstorm downgraded Monday night from a hurricane, slammed the East Coast.
*
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission says an "unusual event" was declared around 7 p.m. when water reached a high level. The situation was upgraded less than two hours later to an "alert," the second-lowest in a four-tiered warning system.
*
*
Federal officials say all nuclear plants are still in safe condition. They say water levels near Oyster Creek, which is along the Atlantic Ocean, will likely recede within a few hours.

----------


## Dianne

Flood waters coming into New York?   Possibly Mayor Doochberg can focus on something other than the size of cokes someone is digesting.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Flood waters coming into New York?   Possibly Mayor Doochberg can focus on something other than the size of cokes someone is digesting.


Na... now he can join Mayor Giuliani and say he survived Hurricane Sandy.

----------


## KramerDSP

My Aunt in Manahawkin, NJ reported five feet of water in the living room, no power, and the car floating in the garage. But it seems the worst has passed.

----------


## brandon

Wow I'm glad she's okay. Good thing she had the car in the garage.

----------


## donnay

> Fukushima part two: New Jersey Style?
> 
> The nation's oldest nuclear power plant is on alert after waters from a colossal storm reached high levels.
> *
> Oyster Creek in Lacey Township, N.J., was already offline for regular maintenance before Sandy, a superstorm downgraded Monday night from a hurricane, slammed the East Coast.
> *
> The Nuclear Regulatory Commission says an "unusual event" was declared around 7 p.m. when water reached a high level. The situation was upgraded less than two hours later to an "alert," the second-lowest in a four-tiered warning system.
> *
> *
> Federal officials say all nuclear plants are still in safe condition. They say water levels near Oyster Creek, which is along the Atlantic Ocean, will likely recede within a few hours.






> The biggest problem, as I see it right now, is the Oyster Creek plant, which is on Barnegat Bay in New Jersey. That appears to be right about the center of the storm. Oyster Creek is the same design, but even older than Fukushima Daiichi unit 1.* It’s in a refueling outage. That means that all the nuclear fuel is not in the nuclear reactor, but it’s over in the spent fuel pool. And in that condition, there’s no backup power for the spent fuel pools. So, if Oyster Creek were to lose its offsite power—and, frankly, that’s really likely—there would be no way cool that nuclear fuel that’s in the fuel pool until they get the power reestablished.* Nuclear fuel pools don’t have to be cooled by diesels per the old Nuclear Regulatory Commission regulations. I hope the Nuclear Regulatory Commission changes that and forces the industry to cool its nuclear fuel pools, as well.
> 
> *This time of year, there’s a lot of power plants in refueling outages. And all of those plants will be in a situation where there’s no fuel in the nuclear reactor; it’s all in the fuel pool. Systems have been shut down to be maintained, including diesels, perhaps even completely dismantled. And in the event that there’s a loss of offsite power from the high winds from this hurricane, we will see the water in the fuel pools begin to heat up.*


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...ear-plant.html

----------


## Don Lapre

Lovely night for a little swim, Mr. East Coast Liberal.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> OK, just in case I'm not the only one wondering where Cowlesy was hiding, he messaged me on Facebook, and he is indeed safely high and dry.


Good to hear.

----------


## RickPerryLost

> Lovely night for a little swim, Mr. East Coast Liberal.


Do we know how many of these photos are REAL compared to those REALLY Photoshopped?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> My Aunt in Manahawkin, NJ reported five feet of water in the living room, no power, and the car floating in the garage. But it seems the worst has passed.


What a mess.

From this sat photo and the tide tables, she is right.



Ocean County NJ was pretty much "ground zero".

Atmospheric pressure should start rising and the wind should veer SW to W, blowing that water out of Beach Haven, like I was saying before.

Glad she is OK.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

NYU-Langone Hospital is mass-evacuating patients (some on critical life support) due to both a power outage, and a backup generator failure.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

blah


> 2h   *NYC Mayor's Office*             ‏@*NYCMayorsOffice*  
> Mayor: Right now, 911 is receiving 10,000 calls per  half hour. Please, please, please only call 911 for life-threatening  emergencies. #*Sandy*





> 2h   *Mike Bloomberg*             ‏@*MikeBloomberg*  
>                                                         I know things have gotten tough for NYC tonight. We  are going to get through this together, as New Yorkers always do. #*Sandy*

----------


## Anti Federalist

The media feedback loop.


* CNN, Weather Channel Falsely Report NYSE Flooding During Hurricane Sandy*

The Huffington Post  |  By Jack Mirkinson 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2042415.html

CNN and The Weather Channel ran into trouble on Monday night when they falsely reported that the New York Stock Exchange was flooding with water.

At around the same time, CNN meteorologist Chad Myers and The Weather Channel's Bryan Norcross reported that there was up to three feet of water flooding the building, which has been closed due to Hurricane Sandy. Myers cited "the National Weather Service, through broadcast media," presumably referring to The Weather Channel.

CNN then brought in Ali Velshi to weigh in. He was already in the center of danger, knee-deep in water on a flooded Atlantic City block. But, as one of CNN's top financial journalists, he commented on Meyers' report.

"This will have an influence worldwide on people's wealth," he said ominously.

Erin Burnett also reacted, saying that it was an "incredible thing" and a "record-making moment" and adding, "It's a wooden floor, and it's a historic building, the damage it could do would be amazing."

Unfortunately, the report started to unravel almost immediately. Politico's Ben White tweeted that a Stock Exchange official had categorically denied the story to him. NY1's Pat Kiernan then tweeted what he said was a photo of what the Stock Exchange actually looked like (very dry). A spokesperson for the NYSE then told ABC that the Weather Channel had issued an "egregiously false" report.

CNN started walking the news back. Myers ultimately said that the story had come from a message board (transcript via Poynter):

    Myers: Oh is that right? You know, I got that from the National Weather Service Chat bulletin board. It was right on there, it said three feet of water on the floor. I don't know if there's conflicting reports or not.

    Piers Morgan: It's a lot of chaos out there, a lot of reports flying around --

    Myers: Of course, power's out, lights are out; phones are probably not working. I don't know. I will clear it up though, I will figure it out whether that happened or not.

In the end, both networks were forced to declare the story false:

The Weather Channel @weatherchannel
The Weather Channel
New reports from The Weather Channel News Desk show that the NY Stock Exchange does not have 3 ft. of water on trading floor. #Sandy
October 30, 2012 2:00 am via HootSuite Reply Retweet Favorite

chad myers @chadmyerscnn
chad myers
Earlier reports from the National Weather Service of 3 feet of water on the floor of the NYSE were false.
October 30, 2012 2:25 am via web Reply Retweet Favorite

----------


## Dr.3D

I can just see it now.....
*Mike Bloomberg:* 'I survived hurricane Sandy.  Can I be president?'

----------


## amonasro

Plenty of fearmongering on CNN tonight. They keep replaying the clip of a woman saying "I'm scared. So many people are gonna die tonight!"

----------


## acptulsa

> Earlier reports from the National Weather Service of 3 feet of water on the floor of the NYSE were false.


lol

Didn't any of these idiot yellow journalists think to check if the railroad tunnels and the subways were full to the ceiling?  And if they knew that this was not the case, how could they possibly report that lower Manhattan was flooded three feet deep?  Are they unaware that water runs downhill?

Is it a requirement that you be an idiot to work for CNN, or does it just work out that way?  How have we (so far) failed to completely discredit these jackasses?  Can we use this to discredit them completely tomorrow?

----------


## devil21

I won't draw a conclusion on the NYSE story until I see it dry and functional in the next day or two.

----------


## Danke

we are all doomed.

----------


## S.Shorland

According to the measuring device at the new york battery the max surge height was 13.88 feet.the image won't embed so go to http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydro...okx&gage=batn6

----------


## opal

well it's the crack of way too early.. and it's warmer in most of NJ than it is here on the panhandle of Fl this morning - light snow falling in WV (where they said there was to be a 2-3 foot snow fall over night.
I do seem to have two sites that I go to every morning where their forums are down.  (whole site for one of them.. game engine and website)  I know the second one's servers are in New Jersey somewhere and the site owners are in Mass.
The e-cig forums are down too..hmmm

----------


## CaptUSA

This storm is no joke.  Hopefully people don't get too crazy as we work to restore power.  If you see a utility worker, thank him and then stay out of his way.  Don't waste his time complaining.

----------


## tod evans

> This storm is no joke.  Hopefully people don't get too crazy as we work to restore power.  If you see a utility worker, thank him and then stay out of his way.  Don't waste his time complaining.


What?

You mean the guys who've been up sloshing around in knee-deep water working on live wires don't have answers for suburbanites?

Take 'em coffee and sandwiches if you've gotta mess with 'em...

----------


## kathy88

> What?
> 
> You mean the guys who've been up sloshing around in knee-deep water working on live wires don't have answers for suburbanites?
> 
> Take 'em coffee and sandwiches if you've gotta mess with 'em...


That's a great idea. And a good lesson for the kids. I think I'll make the 24 cupper and go for a ride later this morning.

----------


## ghengis86

> That's a great idea. And a good lesson for the kids. I think I'll make the 24 cupper and go for a ride later this morning.


My neighbor was a lineman from the Midwest that got called to hurricane damaged areas to restore power. The last thing you do is complain, since that guarantees your house will get hooked up last. Water, coffee and food and your block/house gets lit up before everyone else. 

These guys will work 16 hour days for a couple weeks straight, living out of trucks, schools, churches, etc. they don't care to hear how poor a job you think they're doing.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> well it's the crack of way too early.. and it's warmer in most of NJ than it is here on the panhandle of Fl this morning - light snow falling in WV (where they said there was to be a 2-3 foot snow fall over night.
> I do seem to have two sites that I go to every morning where their forums are down.  (whole site for one of them.. game engine and website)  I know the second one's servers are in New Jersey somewhere and the site owners are in Mass.
> The e-cig forums are down too..hmmm


We actually got quite a bit of snow here in WV.

----------


## presence

CBS is saying 50 buildings burned in queens

20 neonates in ICU at NYU Langone Medical Center had to be moveded while on battery power when generators failed.  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...DArea;fdmodule

----------


## ShaneEnochs

I don't know about anyone else on the east coast, but my Internet is insanely slow this morning.  I wonder if the storm has anything to do with it.

----------


## kathy88

> My neighbor was a lineman from the Midwest that got called to hurricane damaged areas to restore power. The last thing you do is complain, since that guarantees your house will get hooked up last. Water, coffee and food and your block/house gets lit up before everyone else. 
> 
> These guys will work 16 hour days for a couple weeks straight, living out of trucks, schools, churches, etc. they don't care to hear how poor a job you think they're doing.


I have a few friends who work for power companies. They are on call all the time. I've been playing softball when they've had to leave the game because of an outage or tree down or something. Their lives are not theirs.

----------


## brandon

> These guys will work 16 hour days for a couple weeks straight, living out of trucks, schools, churches, etc. they don't care to hear how poor a job you think they're doing.


Its true they work this much but theyre also getting paid like $100/hr and will take several weeks of vacation when the storm cleanup is done.  They have it pretty damn good thanks to their unions

----------


## CaptUSA

> Its true they work this much but theyre also getting paid like $100/hr and will take several weeks of vacation when the storm cleanup is done.  They have it pretty damn good thanks to their unions


with all due respect, brandon, you have no idea what you're talking about.

----------


## libertygrl

Just checking in...  been hunkering down in a church basement here in South Eastern NY, since I was evacuated early yesterday morning.  Haven't been able to get much sleep.  We lost electricity for a while but thankfully it came back on early this morning. A large oak tree was uprooted in the backyard and destroyed a fence.

 Not able to get to my house yet due to the present conditions.  EXTREMELY WORRIED.  Major flooding and fires being reported within our area.   NEVER experienced this kind of devestation in my hometown before.  We are under a new coastal flood warning due to high tides, up until 3pm est.  Winds are quiet now, but are expected to gust up to 50mph.  Still....a lot lower than where we were last night.  

The sun came out briefly earlier this morning and I took a walk.  Not too many trees down here at all.  I'm north of the shore where the flooding took place. Now it's getting very dark again.  We are expecting more heavy rains.  

Don't now what else to add... but this was certainly the worst ever to hit our region.

----------


## CaptUSA

Glad you are safe, libertygrl.  Thanks for your report.  Damage can be repaired, but your well-being is paramount.

----------


## Demigod

...

----------


## brandon

> with all due respect, brandon, you have no idea what you're talking about.


Okay please tell me why.  My closest friend is a lineworker and he tells me all about it.

----------


## CaptUSA

> Okay please tell me why.  My closest friend is a lineworker and he tells me all about it.


Either your friend is bragging or you are misunderstanding what he is saying.  In most cases, the linemen get paid regular time up to 40 hours.  They get time and a half on OT.  Regular hourly wages for a top scale lineman are around $35-$40 depending on company.  They may get double time if they assist with other utilities.  Even that doesn't come to $100/hr and it would only be for anything over 40 hours.  Secondly, they do not get any more vacation than normal due to a storm.  They get their normal allotment.  Many linemen elect to use that vacation after a storm because the work is extremely taxing.  But don't fool yourself into thinking they're on "vacation", they are recuperating.  And burning their vacation time to do so.  They do get their meals provided when they go out of town, but most of the time it's a boxed lunch at a service center cafeteria or in a parking lot staging site somewhere.

They do get paid well, but they should.  This is hard work and extremely dangerous.  They are dealing with an invisible, odorless monster that moves at the speed of light and kills in an instant.  And they do it in terrible conditions.  All the while getting yelled at by customers that think they're power should come back on with the flip of a switch.

----------


## Todd

> Its true they work this much but theyre also getting paid like $100/hr and will take several weeks of vacation when the storm cleanup is done.  They have it pretty damn good thanks to their unions


In contrast to this^

I sometimes wonder why we don't elevate guys who get our power back up to hero status like we do our military.   I mean, don't they do some pretty important things?  We have a whole slew of workers coming in from Texas, away from there families who will be helping us in Virginia, and working some pretty cruddy long hours.  I think they should get the discounts, and the free coffee and goodies just like the emergency service workers and military do.   

And I'm in the miltary and think this.

----------


## brandon

My understanding is his base pay is $42/hour, and everytime he is activated for emegercy storm clean up and has to travel, he is paid double time. And then he gets some absurdly big pension on top of that.  Typically after he is done storm cleanup he gets laid off, which means he then collects unemployment for as long as he wants to before starting a new job.  Maybe he exaggerated his pay, but I know every time a storm is coming he gets very excited about the opportunity to go make big money.  And he lives very very well...guy buys a new truck every year.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Either your friend is bragging or you are misunderstanding what he is saying.  In most cases, the linemen get paid regular time up to 40 hours.  They get time and a half on OT.  Regular hourly wages for a top scale lineman are around $35-$40 depending on company.  They may get double time if they assist with other utilities.  Even that doesn't come to $100/hr and it would only be for anything over 40 hours.  Secondly, they do not get any more vacation than normal due to a storm.  They get their normal allotment.  Many linemen elect to use that vacation after a storm because the work is extremely taxing.  But don't fool yourself into thinking they're on "vacation", they are recuperating.  And burning their vacation time to do so.  They do get their meals provided when they go out of town, but most of the time it's a boxed lunch at a service center cafeteria or in a parking lot staging site somewhere.
> 
> They do get paid well, but they should.  This is hard work and extremely dangerous.  They are dealing with an invisible, odorless monster that moves at the speed of light and kills in an instant.  And they do it in terrible conditions.  All the while getting yelled at by customers that think they're power should come back on with the flip of a switch.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again.

----------


## opal

Anyone heard anything about conditions in North Jersey?  Bergen county?  1 aunt and 2 cousins live there - non of which use computers

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

OK! - current rundown...

Superstorm Sandy: State-by-state snapshot
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...tate-snapshot/

Last Updated at 9:07 a.m. ET

The massive storm that started out as Hurricane Sandy slammed into the East Coast and morphed into a huge and problematic system, putting more than 7.2 million homes and businesses in the dark and causing at least 16 deaths. Here's a snapshot of what is happening, state by state.

*Carolinas*

North Carolina Gov. Beverly Perdue expanded a state of emergency to western North Carolina, which could see a foot of snow.

A woman who was pulled from the Atlantic after abandoning a tall ship died. Power outages: 6,600.

*Connecticut
*
The Long Island Sound flooded roads as the storm toppled trees and power lines Two people died, including an Easton firefighter who was killed when a tree fell on his truck. Power outages: More than 475,000.

*Delaware*

Nearly all residents of flood-prone coastal communities in Kent County heeded calls to evacuate. The Rehoboth Beach and Dewey Beach resort communities were flooded. Power outages: More than 45,000.

*Illinois*

High wind warnings and a lakeshore flood warning are in effect Tuesday and Wednesday in Chicago. City officials said Lake Shore Drive is expected to remain open.

*Kentucky*

A winter storm warning is in effect for three southeastern counties until Wednesday. In some areas, winds could gust up to 50 mph through Tuesday.

*Maine*

Wind gusts topped 60 mph, shutting down the port of Portland and knocking out power to more than 87,000 homes and businesses.

The National Weather Service says rain and gusting winds will continue across Maine toady into tomorrow as the remnants of the storm make their way across the state.

A flood warning has been issued for the Swift River in the western Maine town of Roxbury.

*Maryland*

Floodwaters swamped touristy Ocean City. In western Maryland, snow tied up traffic. Maryland officials are predicting that Sandy would cause damage equal to or greater than two of the worst tropical storms in the region's history: Gloria in 1985 and Agnes in 1972.

A falling tree killed a man in Pasadena.

Power outages: 290,000.

*Massachusetts*

Strong winds and heavy surf led to mandatory evacuations in sections of coastal Dartmouth and Fall River and voluntary evacuations in other coastal communities. Power outages: Nearly 300,000.

*Michigan*

High winds knocked out power to at least 60,000 homes and businesses.

*New Hampshire*

Politicians canceled visits to the presidential swing state on Monday. Power outages: 149,000.

*New Jersey*

The center of the storm came ashore Monday evening near Atlantic City, which was cut off from the mainland by the storm surge along with other barrier islands, stranding residents who ignored warnings to evacuate. At least three deaths were reported. *Power outages: 2.3 million.*

*New York*

A record storm surge that was higher than predicted along with high winds damaged the electrical system and plunged millions of people into darkness. Utilities say it could be up to a week before power is fully restored.

The governor's office said there were five storm-related deaths. A fire was burning 15 houses in one flooded section of Queens.

*Power outages: 1.7 million.*

*Ohio*

Wind gusts of up to 60 mph could hit some counties on Tuesday and rain could change over to a snowy mix. Utilities expect the wind to continue blowing down trees and poles. Power outages: More than 215,000.

*Pennsylvania*

Wind and flooding closing more than 200 bridges and roads. Three people died, including an 8-year-old boy who was killed when a tree limb fell on him. *Power outages: 1.2 million.
*

*Rhode Island*

Howling winds and storm surges forced mandatory and voluntary evacuations in low-lying and coastal communities. Officials say Providence's hurricane barrier performed well as high tides added to problems created by the pounding by Superstorm Sandy.

"The barrier worked superbly," Prov. Public Safety Commissioner Steven Pare told CBS Affiliate WPRI. "We were prepared for up to 12 feet of water . . . Luckily we didn't get that high."

Power outages: 116,000.

*Tennessee*

Snow expected in higher elevations, where a freeze warning has been issued. High winds expected in many areas.

*Vermont*

Winds knocked down trees and power lines, and localized flooding is possible Tuesday. Power outages: More than 8,500.

*Virginia*

Utilities brought in crews to help restore power after high winds and snow. A curfew was ordered Monday on Chincoteague Island. Power outages: More than 131,000.

*Washington, D.C.*

*Federal and local governments will remain closed Tuesday along with the courts, public schools and the Metro system* that serves 1.2 million weekday customers.

Widespread cancellations are expected at the region's three major airports. Power outages: 25,000.

*West Virginia*

Some areas are buried under more than a foot of snow. A woman was killed in a traffic crash. Power outages: More than 200,000.

*Wisconsin*

A village along Lake Michigan suggested residents evacuate Tuesday morning because of the possibility of dangerously high waves and flooding.

-t

----------


## CaptUSA

> My understanding is his base pay is $42/hour, and everytime he is activated for emegercy storm clean up and has to travel, he is paid double time. And then he gets some absurdly big pension on top of that.  Typically after he is done storm cleanup he gets laid off, which means he then collects unemployment for as long as he wants to before starting a new job.  Maybe he exaggerated his pay, but I know every time a storm is coming he gets very excited about the opportunity to go make big money.  And he lives very very well...guy buys a new truck every year.


I see.  It sounds like your friend is a contract lineman.  They only work when there is a storm or a big job somewhere.  The structure of that job is far different from utility linemen.  I understand those guys do get paid well while on assignment, but they are away from home and there are no guarantees of work.  Often, they are not union workers.  Still, the work they are doing is tough and they should get paid well to do it.  And understand that a lay-off is not a vacation.  (Of course, with unemployment compensation the way it is, I can see why it may appear that way. )

----------


## phill4paul

> My understanding is his base pay is $42/hour, and everytime he is activated for emegercy storm clean up and has to travel, he is paid double time. And then he gets some absurdly big pension on top of that.  Typically after he is done storm cleanup he gets laid off, which means he then collects unemployment for as long as he wants to before starting a new job.  Maybe he exaggerated his pay, but I know every time a storm is coming he gets very excited about the opportunity to go make big money.  And he lives very very well...guy buys a new truck every year.


  This. 
  Also figure in per-diem and housing for travelling workers.

http://wpp.labor.state.ny.us/wpp/vie...id=1&county=27

----------


## donnay

> New Hampshire
> 
> Politicians canceled visits to the presidential swing state on Monday. Power outages: 149,000.


Honestly we have had Nor'easters that packed more of a wallop than this storm.  Our electric flicked off for a while, nothing major here.

I hope and pray those in New Jersey/New York are okay today.

----------


## JK/SEA

just getting up here on the west coast. Watching the news on the storm...geezus.....prayers going out.....stay safe.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Gov Christie of NJ just on saying the state is basically screwed.  They can't get to the islands, many ppl needing rescuing, power is out just about everywhere, natural gas supply is disrupted, and water feeds are contaminated.

Not mentioned, but worth thinking about...  Guess what state is known as the toxic waste dump capitol of the country?  You got it! New Joisey!!!  FTW!!!

Reminds me of all the refinery chem contamination during Katrina.  

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Stock markets closed Monday and Tuesday due to storm [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel]

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...0to%20storm%20[Milwaukee%20Journal%20Sentinel]||docSource||Knight%20Ridder/Tribune||provider||ACQUIREMEDIA||bridgesymbol||US;  MHP&ticker=MHP

Oct. 29--U.S. financial markets are closed Monday and will remain closed Tuesday because of Hurricane Sandy, NYSE Euronext, the parent company of the New York Stock Exchange, said.

It is the first unplanned closing of financial markets since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"In consultation with other exchanges and market participants, NYSE Euronext will close its markets in coordination with all U.S. equities, bonds, options and derivatives markets on Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2012," according to the statement from NYSE Euronext.

The statement said that markets would reopen on Wednesday, weather permitting.

A two-day, weather-related closure of the exchange hasn't happened since 1888 when a blizzard hit New York City. The last time the exchange closed because of the weather was in 1985, when Hurricane Gloria hit the East Coast.

Much of the East Coast was at a standstill Monday as the storm approached. New York City's mass transit system was closed down and areas around the Financial District in lower Manhattan were part of a mandatory evacuation zone.

"It was a judgment decision based on the safety of a lot of market participants, especially as the storm seems to be getting more severe," said Larry Leibowitz, chief operating officer of NYSE Euronext. "Given all the emphasis on stability and investor confidence, operating the market that way didn't seem to serve the public interest. Why do this? To prove we can? That didn't seem to make a lot of sense."

There had been plans to allow electronic trading to go forward Monday on the New York Stock Exchange, but with all mass transit shut down in and out of Manhattan, the risks of having people travel in to work were determined to be too great.

The Nasdaq and the CME Group in Chicago are also closed. CME Group's Nymex headquarters and New York trading floor are located in the mandatory evacuation zone in Manhattan. Its New York trading floor will be closed, but some electronic markets were functioning.

"CME Group will close its interest rate complex, including Treasury, Eurodollar and Fed Funds futures and options on futures markets on the trading floor and on CME Globex at 11 a.m. Central time," CME said in a statement.

Equity index futures and options on futures markets on the trading floor and CME Globex closed at 8:15 a.m. Central time on Monday, the company said.

"We will continue to monitor the situation as well as continue our coordination with other exchanges and will keep you updated as information becomes available," according to the statement.

Meanwhile, a number of major U.S. companies postponed quarterly earnings reports scheduled for Monday, as the hurricane barreled into the East Coast.

Pfizer Inc., Thomson Reuters Corp. and NRG Energy Inc. are among those holding financial reports until later this week. Pfizer, Avon Products Inc. and Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia Inc., which were due to report Tuesday, will announce results Thursday. Thomson Reuters, also originally scheduled for Tuesday, will report Friday. NRG and McGraw-Hill Cos. will also report on Friday instead of Wednesday.

Some companies, including Burger King Worldwide Inc., Valero Energy Corp. and MasterCard Inc., are reporting as planned.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

> Anyone heard anything about conditions in North Jersey?  Bergen county?  1 aunt and 2 cousins live there - non of which use computers


I can give you specifics but need to know a more concise area.  Some areas are good and some are bad. Reports of flooding in some areas of bergen.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

From my area:

----------


## malkusm

^ WOW that is a lot of snow.

----------


## Jeremy

Here in CT over 600,000 are without power.  That's utility customers, so I don't know how that converts to people.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Here in CT over 600,000 are without power.  That's utility customers, so I don't know how that converts to people.


Multiply by 2 - 2.5 is a pretty good guess...

-t

----------


## Jeremy

By the way I'm one of those people, but there is power here at work.  Lots of roads were closed this morning, but it wasn't too bad because I'm inland.  I think the snow storm we had exactly a year ago could have been worse than this, but I haven't seen what the shore looks like.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

The storm has affected the Internet, by the way.  My current download speed is 0.31 Mbps.  Usually it's around 26+ Mbps.  I'm having a hard time just getting this forum to load up.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> The storm has affected the Internet, by the way.  My current download speed is 0.31 Mbps.  Usually it's around 26+ Mbps.  I'm having a hard time just getting this forum to load up.


Do a traceroute.  I bet it's one node down that is forcing re-routing on a secondary path and overloading it.

-t

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Do a traceroute.  I bet it's one node down that is forcing re-routing on a secondary path and overloading it.
> 
> -t


How is that done?

----------


## opal

OK.. I take it back about WV - that is NOT a light snow fall.  

as for specifics on Bergen county - Dumont, Harrington Park - Westwood - Bergenfield?

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> My neighbor was a lineman from the Midwest that got called to hurricane damaged areas to restore power. The last thing you do is complain, since that guarantees your house will get hooked up last.



Unfortunately, you just lowered my respect for those guys a great deal. (Your neighbor at the least) The last thing I would do is complain, but that's a $#@!ty way to handle your business.  Sounds like cops.  If I were working there, I'd be busy restoring power instead of engaging in dick measuring contests with people who have no electricity.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> How is that done?


on a windows box, I believe you just open a command prompt window and type in tracert <site you want to contact>

All programs / accessories / command prompt

-t

----------


## CaptUSA

> Unfortunately, you just lowered my respect for those guys a great deal. (Your neighbor at the least) The last thing I would do is complain, but that's a $#@!ty way to handle your business.  Sounds like cops.  If I were working there, I'd be busy restoring power instead of engaging in dick measuring contests with people who have no electricity.


Yeah, I don't believe this.  Power is restored by priority.  You start with emergencies.  Then you try to pick up the most people as possible.  Finally, you go back and try to pick up single services.  Linemen are trained to deal with $#@!s.  However, if you're nice enough, you may get one to jump you ahead in line a bit.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89N16J20121030

NEW JERSEY TOWNS FLOODED

Three towns in New Jersey, just west of New York City, were inundated with up to 5 feet of water after a levee on the nearby Hackensack River was overtopped or breached, officials said. Rescuers were using boats to aid the marooned residents of Moonachie, Little Ferry and Carlstadt.



A security guard at *7 World Trade Center*, Gregory Baldwin, was catching some rest in his car after laboring overnight against floodwaters that engulfed a nearby office building.

"*The water went inside up to here*," he said, *pointing to his chest. "The water came shooting down from Battery Park with the gusting wind.*"

OMG! - the WTC got hit again!!!!   Must be AQ....  Must throw money and freedoms at problem....  

-t

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Linemen are trained to deal with $#@!s.



It's a shame they need to be, too.  I'm sure they run across more than their share, but you'd think the guys on the ground would just tell people to move along and that they are working as fast as they can.  People in trades like that are not slackers in my experience.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> on a windows box, I believe you just open a command prompt window and type in tracert <site you want to contact>
> 
> All programs / accessories / command prompt
> 
> -t


It says it took 12 hops.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

We just got communications back a bit ago here. Everything is ok. A lot of water but thankfully only mild wind damage. Considering some folks literally a couple of miles away lost everything, I feel very blessed.

----------


## phill4paul

> We just got communications back a bit ago here. Everything is ok. A lot of water but thankfully only mild wind damage. Considering some folks literally a couple of miles away lost everything, I feel very blessed.


  Good to hear. Glad you came through alright.

----------


## libertygrl

> Glad you are safe, libertygrl.  Thanks for your report.  Damage can be repaired, but your well-being is paramount.


Thanks Capt.USA.   I guess it's still the uncertainty of not knowing what to expect. I keep envisioning these worst case scenarios. Home IS where the heart is, afterall.  I can't afford any major repair expense.

----------


## libertygrl

> We just got communications back a bit ago here. Everything is ok. A lot of water but thankfully only mild wind damage. Considering some folks literally a couple of miles away lost everything, I feel very blessed.


That's great news.  Hope I find out the same for myself.  The waiting is the hardest part.  The main highway to my house is still closed.

----------


## jonhowe

I thought I'd fared ok, but now not ONE chinese takeout place is open!

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> That's great news.  Hope I find out the same for myself.  The waiting is the hardest part.  The main highway to my house is still closed.


We will all be keeping our fingers crossed for you.

----------


## asurfaholic

> I thought I'd fared ok, but now not ONE chinese takeout place is open!


Im praying for you buddy. Hang in there

----------


## VoluntaryAmerican

House floats off Cedar Bonnet Island onto Route 72

STAFFORD TOWNSHIP Local officials said Monday that the ocean met the bay in numerous areas of Long Beach Island and they expect extensive damage before the storm is over.
Late Monday evening Stafford Township Police Chief Joseph Giberson said he was informed that a home from the Cedar Bonnet Island section, which was evacuated due to flooding, was floating across Route 72.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/a...9bb2963f4.html

----------


## Danke

> Unfortunately, you just lowered my respect for those guys a great deal. (Your neighbor at the least) The last thing I would do is complain, but that's a $#@!ty way to handle your business.  Sounds like cops.  If I were working there, I'd be busy restoring power instead of engaging in dick measuring contests with people who have no electricity.

----------


## phill4paul

> I thought I'd fared ok, but now not ONE chinese takeout place is open!



  Pizza? Surely there is one wood fired oven operating.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> New Hampshire
> 
> Politicians canceled visits to the presidential swing state on Monday. Power outages: 149,000


God, I love this state.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> 



Obviously NSA propaganda.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Heard from a lot of friends and family on the Jersey shore this morning.

Flooding was bad in typical low lying areas. Cousin in Point Beach got the car flooded and about a foot of water in the house. Half mile down the road, nothing.

Two folks off Hooper Ave in Brick were OK, power out no flooding no serious wind damage.

Belmar seemed OK, away from the beach, probably tore up the boardwalk some.

Got one person in Brielle that was near the water and hasn't been heard from yet.

Shore Acres in Brick was under varying amounts of water. Which means pretty much everything else on the lagoons in Brick, Silverton, Toms River, Waretown, Forked River and Beach Haven was as well.

Still waiting to hear from a buddy of mine that has a house right on the beach in Lavalette.

----------


## Anti Federalist

* Hurricanes, Eighteenth-Century Style*

Posted by Becky Akers on October 30, 2012 02:41 AM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/124653.html

Yes, I’m up in the wee hours — because I’m an insomniac, not because a howling Frankenstorm woke me. Indeed, it’s so quiet now, with neither rain nor wind, that I suspect David and CNN are correct: Sandy has moved on.

What gutless, silly rulers, corporate and political, curse us! While these Nervous Nellies tried their hardest to scare-monger, I thought of the astoundingly brave Major General Benedict Arnold. Not his treason, but another, little-known yet incredibly heroic incident: In the autumn of 1775, Arnold led a march on Quebec from Massachusetts. His was one of a two-pronged attack that aimed to expel the British Army from Canada and convince the residents there to join the lower 13 colonies in their fight for freedom. But because Quebec was impregnable, with its escarpment on the St. Lawrence River and stout stone walls protecting it, Arnold and his 1000 troops would endeavor to surprise the city. That required an arrival in the brutal northern winter, when no one would expect an assault (18th century armaments wouldn’t fire in weather rainy or snowy enough to wet their gunpowder), after marching through Maine’s wilderness — then so dire that even the most intrepid soul, let alone an army, hardly dared attempt it.

Arnold’s march quickly degenerated from one hoping to liberate Canada to one for survival as the wilderness punished his column. The route was far longer and more arduous than the maps of the day had shown, with swamps and bogs to trap them. They lost their rations to spoilage and the white water over which they tried to ship them; eventually, the starving men ate the few pet dogs accompanying the march and candle-soup (they boiled candles, then dipped from animal tallow, in water). Just when things couldn’t get any worse, a hurricane hit. For several days, these courageous lovers of liberty sought shelter under downed trees while their pinched stomachs growled for food that had long ago disappeared. No one died, though their misery in the cold, trackless, eerie woods is beyond my power to describe.

I wonder how hard they would laugh — or cry — could they see the craven buffoons tyrannizing their descendants — demagogic curs who exploit rain and high winds to terrify us into yielding more of our liberty. How furiously would Arnold and his champions urge us to throw off their absurd yoke and live free? Would they even begin to understand our apathy towards the freedom that kept them marching through a hurricane? (I’m working on a novel about Benedict Arnold and his march that I hope to release next year. Meanwhile, read more about the American Revolution in my first novel, Halestorm, available in paperback or for Kindle.)

----------


## Anti Federalist

Silver lining: I'll bet it fried a large portion of the surveillance grid.

----------


## Pericles

> Silver lining: I'll bet it fried a large portion of the surveillance grid.


There aren't enough batteries to keep that going.

----------


## Danke

Laguardia:

----------


## angelatc

> Thanks Capt.USA.   I guess it's still the uncertainty of not knowing what to expect. I keep envisioning these worst case scenarios. Home IS where the heart is, afterall.  I can't afford any major repair expense.


If you're in a disaster area, which you are, you can get government free stuff to help.

----------


## Danke



----------


## Aratus

back online... trees down here, in the greater boston area
and there are quite a few people without power. NJ +NYC
were hit hard and it will take them a while to fully recover

----------


## presence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkJOo...layer_embedded

*Hurricane Sandy 3 Trees Fall [smash cars] And Fire*

----------


## Nirvikalpa

> OK.. I take it back about WV - that is NOT a light snow fall.  
> 
> as for specifics on Bergen county - Dumont, Harrington Park - Westwood - Bergenfield?


I can do Bergenfield. B'field is a lot better than many NJ towns and most places have power. Many restaurants/fast food (including the dunkin donuts) are open, and a few gas stations are open. Food places and gas stations are absolutely packed, with some stations reporting a 30-45min wait. Many people in the surrounding areas are heading to b'field for internet/phone access.

----------


## Aratus

i was offline. the photos in this thread are intense. thanks tangent4ronpaul!




> OK! - current rundown...
> 
> Superstorm Sandy: State-by-state snapshot
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...tate-snapshot/
> 
> Last Updated at 9:07 a.m. ET
> 
> The massive storm that started out as Hurricane Sandy slammed into the East Coast and morphed into a huge and problematic system, putting more than 7.2 million homes and businesses in the dark and causing at least 16 deaths. Here's a snapshot of what is happening, state by state.
> 
> ...

----------


## presence

Ok... mapping freak posting again:

www.hint.fm/wind/

----------


## opal

wind map.. awesome!

+1

----------


## JK/SEA

> Silver lining: I'll bet it fried a large portion of the surveillance grid.


nice thought...more than likely the grid has its own direct trunk line with protections.

----------


## MelissaWV

> That's what they are trying to avoid.
> 
> Ain't no trees at sea.
> 
> Nor houses.
> 
> Nor streets.
> 
> Nor buildings.


Not what I said.

The people saying "OMG why is that guy out there instead of safe in a harbor somewhere nearby?" are thinking that if he anchored along the shore and rode out the storm at home, his boat would be safe.  No.  It would be likely to end up somewhere he really would have difficulty retrieving it from.

----------


## pochy1776

> I'm all for people being safe but people should not be forced to evacuate their homes ever.


Sadly i can understand it, but other people can't. If i want to die in my home, let me $#@!ing be. Don't use social coercion.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Not what I said.
> 
> The people saying "OMG why is that guy out there instead of safe in a harbor somewhere nearby?" are thinking that if he anchored along the shore and rode out the storm at home, his boat would be safe.  No.  It would be likely to end up somewhere he really would have difficulty retrieving it from.


Got it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

The Jeppeson page on La Guardia shows a lowest runway elevation of 7 feet at the end of runway 31.

The highest is 21 feet at the end of runway 4.

So roughly 12 feet of average elevation maybe and what looks like a foot of water.

13 ft. storm surge above MHW is just about right then.







> Laguardia:

----------


## kathy88

Spent some time here as a kid. Sea Bright Beach Club, Monmouth County NJ.

----------


## kathy88

Donovan's. Sea bright.

----------


## kathy88

Keansburg.

----------


## kathy88

OMG. This is the public parking lot at Sea Bright Beach. I was at this beach all the time as a teenager.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Keansburg.


So you're saying I can get really cheap video game machines...

----------


## Anti Federalist

Pt. Pleasant Beach

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## Anti Federalist

> we are all doomed.

----------


## CrissyNY

my dad's warehouse is 5 ft underwater

he lost 3 forklifts

2 vans

innumerable batteries

and a worker nearly drowned

he estimates nearly a quarter of a million dollars in damages,  i don't know if any is covered by insurance

i am so so thankful he is even alive

but i don't know how our family is supposed to sustain these losses?

My Pop employs so many men, with so many families....

----------


## CrissyNY

liberygirl, glad youre ok... hoping your home is dry and safe

please update us!

----------


## Don Lapre

Are flights cancelled today?

----------


## bunklocoempire

Radio Reference is a radio frequency scanning site.  Sounds a mess over there on the East Coast frequencies. 

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=top

Hang tough folks.  Stay safe!

----------


## kathy88

This is like watching my entire childhood disappear. I really need to do something to help.

----------


## Nirvikalpa

I can not believe the devastation in Ocean City and Seaside Heights NJ.

I don't even want to post pictures.

----------


## CrissyNY

> I can not believe the devastation in Ocean City and Seaside Heights NJ.
> 
> I don't even want to post pictures.


  glad you are safe and i don't want to see any more pics of anymore flooding, ever....

hold tight////

----------


## MozoVote

Footage from the air
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/o...andy/176469571

----------


## Anti Federalist

Sleazeside pier got beat up pretty bad, but it looks like most of the structures are still there.

----------


## MelissaWV

I am actually more amazed at all the displaced sand.  That will bite the area in the butt down the line.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Belmar boardwalk torn up pretty good.

But, honestly, it looked a lot like this after the blizzard of 1978 too.

----------


## MelissaWV

Also, if you have wind damage, please check your policy for the phrase "wind deductible" or "hurricane deductible."  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I am actually more amazed at all the displaced sand.  That will bite the area in the butt down the line.


After the "Perfect Storm" in 1991, I was helping out a buddy of mine, driving a bucket loader, that he had contracted out, along with the rest of his heavy equipment, scooping up bucketful after bucketful of sand along Ocean Ave. in Pt. Pleasant.

----------


## Anti Federalist

More of Belmar.

----------


## MelissaWV

> After the "Perfect Storm" in 1991, I was helping out a buddy of mine, driving a bucket loader, that he had contracted out, along with the rest of his heavy equipment, scooping up bucketful after bucketful of sand along Ocean Ave. in Pt. Pleasant.


I was thinking about the loss of dunes and the interaction of the "modified" beach and future storms, including the average winter ones.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I was thinking about the loss of dunes and the interaction of the "modified" beach and future storms, including the average winter ones.


I was watching news before the storm hit and it appeared they had taken a bulldozer and piled up sand on the beaches.  I suspect if that is the case, then of course there would be a lot more sand displacement that there would have been had they not done that.

----------


## Anti Federalist

The Casino and Convention Hall in Asbury Park made it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Sea Girt.

----------


## Indy Vidual

Estimates as high as 6.5 to over 7 million people without power.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> my dad's warehouse is 5 ft underwater
> 
> he lost 3 forklifts
> 
> 2 vans
> 
> innumerable batteries
> 
> and a worker nearly drowned
> ...


Yes, lucky to be alive; Hope the rest goes well.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Beach Haven West, not too far from where KramerDSPs' aunt lives.

----------


## MelissaWV

Not to repeat myself (might put it in my sig) but if you have wind damage and are thinking about making an insurance claim, please look through your policy for the phrase "wind deductible" or "hurricane deductible."

----------


## idiom

> Just curious, what cause the storm surge then if not wind?


The low pressure causes the wind and the surge.

----------


## Bruno

> The low pressure causes the wind and the surge.


As well as the high tide under a full moon at impact and the rocky sloped  ocean bottom which is different than the sandy ocean down south which absorbs more of the force.

I done learned that on the Weather Channel.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Fireman saves dog.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Oopaa Sandy Style!

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Fireman saves dog.



No surprise there.  Nice work.

----------


## Matt Collins

> 


Someone needs to put chemtrails in there, HAARP, flouride, and vaccines in there too.

----------


## Indy Vidual

Don't forget to check the Carfax:




Movie set or reality?

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## Indy Vidual



----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Beach Haven West, not too far from where KramerDSPs' aunt lives.


Maybe we should start building decks with pontoons attached...

-t

----------


## idiom

That dog was very lucky it was a fireman that showed up and not a police officer...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> It says it took 12 hops.


You aren't looking for the number of hops.  You are looking for a hop that takes a looooong time.  That's your trouble hop.  Alternately, look for a pattern where it tried to take a normal route and detoured/re-routed.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Refinery Impacts from Hurricane Sandy
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/...rricane-sandy/
(18 hours ago)

There are six large oil refineries in the path of Hurricane Sandy, and as of last night two were closed. The Phillips 66 (NYSE: PSX) refinery and the Hess Corp. (NYSE: HES) refinery in New Jersey were shut down, taking 285,000 and 70,000 barrels a day, respectively, out of production.

Of the remaining four, the largest, belonging to Philadelphia Energy Services, was running at a minimum level, not its 330,000 barrel a day maximum. Two refineries owned by PBF Energy Co. also were running at reduced levels. The status of the sixth, now owned by Delta Air Lines Co. (NYSE: DAL), is unknown, as Delta has declined to indicate whether it is operating or at what level.

The largest portion of the gasoline supply to the U.S. Northeast comes from the Gulf Coast by way of the Colonial Pipeline, which has a capacity of 2.3 million barrels a day. So far as we know, the pipeline is undamaged.

Crude oil prices are only a little higher this morning, while reformulated gasoline prices have dropped a little. Unless there is some major problem with restarting the shut down or slowed down refineries, production should return to normal relatively quickly. Pump prices may spike temporarily, but the spikes are very likely to be short-lived. Unlike Hurricane Katrina in 2005, crude production is not affected and damage to the refineries at this point is not believed to be extensive.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Nuclear-Power Industry Survives Sandys Readiness Test
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...readiness-test
(2 hours ago)

Hurricane Sandy this week pummeled the northeast U.S., forcing three reactors to shut down, and a fourth, Exelon Corp. (EXC)s Oyster Creek facility in New Jersey, to declare an alert.

The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which had dispatched inspectors armed with satellite phones to plants in the storms path, will roll back the inspections to the pre- storm level today, while maintaining heightened coverage at Oyster Creek, according to a statement e-mailed yesterday. The agency said that all safety systems in the three idled reactors responded as designed during the hurricane. 
...
Of the 104 operating U.S. reactors, 34 were in the hurricanes path and 24 survived the storm without any incident, according to NEI. Seven units werent operating because they were being refueled and inspected, which typically happens during months when electricity demand is relatively low. 
...
Producing Electricity

Our plants responded very well, Steve Kerekes, a spokesman for the Nuclear Energy Institute, said yesterday in an interview. The majority of them are still producing electricity, which is obviously needed.

PSEG manually closed its 1,174-megawatt Salem Unit 1, about 18 miles (29 kilometers) south of Wilmington, Delaware, when four of six circulating pumps were no longer available because of weather, Delmar said.

Nine Mile Points unit 1 in Scriba, New York, run by a joint venture of Exelon Corp. of Chicago and Electricite de France SA in Paris, automatically shut down after a power disruption to a switch yard, the NRC said. Entergy Corp. (ETR)s Indian Point 3 plant in New York also automatically closed because of power-grid issues, Neil Sheehan, an NRC spokesman said in an e-mail. 
...
While three reactors experienced shutdowns, all are in a safe condition.
Oyster Creek

The nations oldest nuclear plant, Exelons Oyster Creek, declared an alert Oct. 29 after a water-intake structure flooded, according to an NRC statement. The plant, about 33 miles north of Atlantic City, was idle for refueling.

Exelon said the alert was declared when water rose above 6 feet (1.8 meters) above sea level. A disruption was also reported at the plants switch yard, which delivers power to the plant. Diesel generators kicked in automatically.

The plant remains in alert status due to high water levels recorded at the plants intake structure, said Exelons Tillman in an e-mail yesterday. Those levels are falling rapidly today as Hurricane Sandy moves out of the area. When water levels fall sufficiently the station will terminate the alert.

There was no challenge to plant safety equipment and no threat to the public health or safety, according to a statement from the company.

Gundersen said that if Oyster Creek was generating power, and the flood waters been just 6 inches deeper, it could have knocked out the pumps and triggered a disaster.
Unequivocally False

That is unequivocally false, Oyster Creek has numerous, redundant sources of reactor and spent-fuel pool cooling that would be fully operational regardless of the water levels mentioned, Tillman said. Oyster Creeks two locomotive- sized, flood-protected diesel generators would provide ample power to run the stations emergency cooling systems in the event of a flood or loss of off-site power. 

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Hurricane Sandy: Problems at Five Nuke Plants
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/hurric...ry?id=17598503

ConEd Explosion During Hurricane Sandy Rocks Manhattan's Lower East Side (VIDEO) 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2044097.html

An explosion at a substation belonging to New York utility company Consolidated Edison (ConEd) rocked Manhattan's East Village at approximately 9 p.m. on Monday night.

The blast occurred on 14th Street near the bank of the East River and plunged much of lower Manhattan into darkness as Superstorm Sandy battered the city with winds and tidal surges.

ConEd also took parts of its grid offline during the storm. In addition, flooding and downed power lines knocked out power for many in the city. The company said in a press release that 670,000 customers are without power in New York City and Westchester County. During a press conference Tuesday morning, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said that as many as 750,000 residents were without power.

According to the Associated Press, ConEd Senior Vice President John Miksad said Tuesday that "the planned outage should take three to four days to restore, while the explosion and the downed lines could take up to a week."

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Assessing the Damage From Hurricane Sandy
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ermath.html?hp

This is an AWESOME article, full of maps, detail and photo's.  Click though for more!


Wastewater
Five of New Yorks 14 wastewater treatment plants are in the lowest-lying areas of the city, within the mandatory evacuation zone. When the plants get filled to capacity or flooded, sewage and stormwater mix and bypass the plant, flowing directly into New Yorks waterways  and now, into flooded streets and buildings.




Subways and Railroads
By Tuesday evening, subway and commuter rail service remained suspended, and limited bus service was set to resume at 5 p.m. Joseph J. Lhota, chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said that damage to the subway system was being assessed, and that service would be restored in pieces. Tunnels under the East River were all flooded and pumping had begun at some of them. Mr. Lhota said that flooding was literally up to the ceiling at the South Street subway station in Lower Manhattan. Long Island Railroad remained closed due to flooding on the tracks. Two Metro-North lines north of 59th Street continued to be without power, and Mr. Lhota estimated that there were at least 100 trees downed on the tracks. Staten Island ferry and railway service were also still suspended. In New Jersey, Gov. Chris Christie said there was major damage on each and every one of New Jerseys rail lines. New Jersey Transit and PATH service remained suspended.

Work Begins on Flooded Subways
Seven subway tunnels under the East River were still flooded on Tuesday, most of them in Lower Manhattan, where a 14-foot storm surge topped subway entrances and grates.



Where Manhattan is at Risk for Flooding




Power Failures
More than six million customers lost power Monday as Hurricane Sandy felled trees, downed power lines and flooded substations. The storm led to power failures in at least 17 states, including more than a million customers in Pennsylvania and New Jersey and about 660,000 in New York City. Roughly a quarter million customers lost power in Manhattan after water surging up from the East River submerged some electrical equipment in metal sheds, darkening most of the island south of 34th Street. Con Edison officials called the power failures the largest storm related outage in our history. In an update Tuesday morning, New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said that about 2 million families in the region were still without power, nearly half of them on Long Island.



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...utages_sd2.png


Wind
Hurricane Sandy made landfall near Atlantic City with maximum sustained winds of about 80 miles per hour according to the National Hurricane Center. Forecasters said tropical-storm-force winds could stretch all the way north to Canada and all the way west to the Great Lakes, strong enough to continue to knock out power as the storm moves across the country. View time-lapse maps of Hurricane Sandy's winds. »



Much, much more at link! - click though!

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ermath.html?hp

Unfortunately, it's almost all only about NYC...

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Hurricane Sandy: CBP Operating Status

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/tra...ndy_status.xml

(10/30/2012)930 hours  (Expect a new update in a few hours)

Due to Hurricane Sandy, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is providing a status on affected ports.

Airport Status:

JFK  Airport is closed. Operations are suspended.

Newark  Airport is closed. Operations are suspended.

La Guardia - All International flights have been cancelled. Operations are suspended.

BWI - All International flights have been cancelled. The airport remains open.

Philadelphia - All International flights have been cancelled. The airport remains open.

Dulles - All International flights have been cancelled. The airport remains open.

LeHigh - Closed due to power outage.

The next update will occur on Wednesday, October 31, 2012.

Seaport Status:

Southern New England (Coast Guard Sector)
Waterway Closed.

Boston, MA
Port has been reopened for business

Portland, ME
Waterway Closed.

Newark, Elizabeth Marine Terminal, Jersey Marine Terminal, Howland Hook Marine Terminal & Brooklyn Port Authority Marine Terminals
Waterways Closed.

Norfolk
Virginia Port Authority plans to resume operations at 0800 hours. Ports of Richmond, Dublin, and Charleston, WV are all operational. Norfolk reports no damage to CBP facilities.

Baltimore
The Baltimore Seaport remains closed. All trade operations, including CES and Customs House are anticipated to remain closed until Wednesday, October 31st.

Philadelphia
The Philadelphia and Wilmington Seaports remain closed. All trade operations, including CESs and Customs House, are anticipated to remain closed until Wednesday, October 31st.

NY/Newark
There will be no cargo delivery from marine terminals on Tuesday, October 30, 2012.

Conley Terminal
Will resume operations at 0800 hours Tuesday 10/30/2012.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Tons and Tons of updates and a bunch of videos on this page:

Sandy Batters the Northeast: Live Updates on the Superstorm
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/28/...ors_picks=true

-t

----------


## V3n

Any updates from our local RPF members?  Libertygrl?  JDV?  Malkusm?  You all doing alright?

----------


## malkusm

Doing fine, thankfully as it turned out, I was on the "good" side of the East River

----------


## specsaregood

> Any updates from our local RPF members?  Libertygrl?  JDV?  Malkusm?  You all doing alright?


No damage around my area; but nobody has power either...  they changed halloween, didn't know they could do that, it is now officially this friday.

----------


## V3n

> Doing fine, thankfully as it turned out, I was on the "good" side of the East River


Glad to hear it!  I never saw the "after" pics and I was starting to get worried!

----------


## V3n

> No damage around my area; but nobody has power either...  they changed halloween, didn't know they could do that, it is now officially this friday.


I went without power for a week a year or two ago - food was no problem and it was in the summer so it was warm - for me entertainment became the killer!  I got so bored!!

My wife and I would just huddle on the couch and all we had was a small AM radio with ear-buds, so we each had one.

Now it was an adventure and a fond memory!  I'm glad you're ok!

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## Anti Federalist

* Anarchy and the Aftermath*

Posted by Becky Akers on October 30, 2012 08:45 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ml#more-124719

Now that Hurricane Sandy has passed on to Midwestern climes, the rats are crawling out of the woodwork — and writing me. Incredibly, they believe the mainstream media needs their help defending Leviathan, and they excoriate those of us questioning Our Rulers’ reaction to the storm. Several demanded that I apologize for denouncing New York City’s decision to close the subways, given that some of the track and stations flooded, while others gloated that the storm proves me — and by extension, anarchy, or at least hatred of the State — definitively wrong. Again, they cited the subways’ flooding as my Waterloo, so to speak.

I’m kinda baffled that the failure of a State-built, State-controlled monopoly testifies to the idiocy of anarchism and the wisdom of Our Rulers, but rats seldom reason well (especially when they’re swimming through flood-waters. Yes, Leviathan’s subway is overrun with rats, as all New Yorkers know. I have amused myself many a time, in many stations, watching these vermin scavenge for garbage on the tracks. Meanwhile, imagine an anarchic world, with private companies transporting us and competing for our business: how many rats would entertain customers then?). And I remind those who applaud the closing of the subways that none of New York’s previous potentates ever so responded over the 108 years of the system's existence, despite a century’s worth of hurricanes, blizzards, torrential rains, and floods. Yet Nanny Bloomberg et al. have shut them down twice in 14 months.

I suspect most of my critics have little experience with hurricanes. Two readers who live in Florida independently wrote me to cheer my skepticism; one of them, DJ, said, “I'm a lifelong resident of the Miami area so I've been through a few hurricanes before. We always go outside and go to local businesses during the storm. We never stay in or think of evacuation for anything less than a category 4 [Sandy was a Cat 1]. I always get some good laughs when weak hurricanes make their way up the coast and the northeastern government goons get their panties in a bunch.” Bingo.

But this debate about Our Rulers’ judgment begs larger questions than the subways. For starters, there’s something of a “broken-window” fallacy here: the two-legged rodents assume Our Rulers mitigated the storm’s danger, damage, and inconvenience. And that is demonstrably false. Rather, they exponentially increased all of them.

First, some of the areas that suffered the worst flooding here are built on landfill, out into the ocean, courtesy of our taxes and the State. Battery Park City is a good example. The State conceived this boondoggle and executed it; to this day, it still controls this “reclaimed” acreage. Would a private company, on the hook for the billions this project cost, have gambled its own money that the water wouldn’t re-reclaim it? Nope: only politicians risking our resources are that reckless.

Second, the State’s stranglehold on the city’s infrastructure and its fascist running of various industries such as transportation horrifically worsens a bad situation — especially for the poorest and most vulnerable among us. My husband is a partner in his firm: He can work at home if he has to, and he earns enough for us to live in Manhattan. But the porters and other staff in his office building can do neither. We walked to his office today to find that these folks had been there, in the building, since Saturday. With the subways and buses idled, they cannot travel between their homes in Brooklyn and Queens and work in Manhattan — and with licensing and the State’s other restrictions on hiring, jobs are scarce. These guys know that hundreds of unemployed workers covet their jobs, so they’re living in the building until Our Rulers resume service on the subways and buses.

Our walk showed us other examples of the State’s exacerbating troubles. We were still some blocks from the 59th Street Bridge when we saw traffic at a standstill. In fact, the cars had been stalled in the jam for so long that one man had turned off his ignition; he turned it on again as we crossed the street in front of him. Nor was the storm causing this: there were still some clouds this morning, but the weather was fine. Rather, Our Rulers had closed the bridge despite the hundreds of vehicles needing to cross this link between Manhattan and Long Islands.

The bridge has no trees on it that could have toppled and blocked it, so why was it closed? Actually, I misuse "closed": when we reached 59th Street and the bridge’s entrance, I watched thugs — sorry, cops — standing there allowing their buddies and “officials” access while waving everyone else on — regardless of how long those drivers had waited.

Millions of New Yorkers tonight are agonizing. One of my husband’s colleagues fled her home near Coney Island when ocean water burst through her door. She had time to grab her cell phone but nothing else: no wallet or ID (a necessity as essential as money in the police-state). She’s staying with her daughter but fears for neighbors she cannot find or contact. The last thing this poor woman needs is more grief from exploitative tyrants constricting her options and choices, ordering her to obey, forcing her to consider their dictates ahead of her own emergencies.

Far from feeling chagrined at castigating Our Rulers, I am completely vindicated. The State has once again exceeded any anarchist’s lowest expectations.

----------


## Anti Federalist

More silver lining.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/p...sandy/1671295/

----------


## malkusm

> 


Found a pic from this location at the height of the flooding. It's at a different angle, but if you look at the building in the right of the photo below, it is the building in the foreground of the photo above (I was standing right next to that "Do Not Enter" sign to take the above photo). This is approx. 3 blocks from my apartment.



The stairs in the background of my picture about a block away:

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## cajuncocoa

> 


LOL!!

----------


## kahless

My power went out while reading this thread late afternoon Monday and luckily finally came back a few hours ago.

I am in northern Rockland County about an hour north of NYC.  I am happy have it back since the power company had been generally reporting to expect to wait 7-10 days and for some a few weeks before restoration. There is still 41,000 without power in the county which is more than half of what I remember seeing it that last time I checked the utility site.

We did not get much rain here, the wind was the problem.  The sky was lit up Monday night by all the transformers blowing up and down lines.  Lots of down trees on lines, road closures, etc but they are making progress.

In no particular order, just some findings.

 Ice to keep Perishables:  I luckily was able to get some when my local Stop and Shop first opened before it sold out.  However thousands showed up at the local baseball stadium for dry ice yesterday between 1-5 but it sold out in 15 minutes.  People waited in long lines to get there only to get turned away.  

Today they gave out a 2 bag limit per car of regular ice. I am guessing from the endless long lines of cars when I was there I would say thousands showed up again.  About a 45 minute wait in traffic.
 Food: The grocery stores have no backup power so the fairly large Shop Rite has no non-perishable food since it was all thrown out.  Very odd seeing  the deli, fish, meat and frozen food section coolers empty (half the store).   The other Stop and Shop had power but the deli was completely sold out. Never saw that before.  I asked about the next shipment of ice and was told their distribution center lost power so they do not know when they are getting new deliveries.
 Gas: Seeing unusual lines at all the gas stations in North Rockland with the two gas stations near me that do not normally closed have now closed.
 Telecom: With my UPS I typically always have cable and internet during power failures.  Not this one.  Guessing too large of an outrage for Cablevision to power generators as it seems they have done in the past.  Verizon Wireless internet was useless and had little to no bandwidth Monday night but got better on Tuesday.  Probably over capacity.  I have seen this happen before going to events in the area.  Cell service gets completely overloaded and useless.
 Information:  Despite the close proximity to NYC for which the AM/FM band is dominated by NYC stations they provided no coverage of Rockland County other than obvious generalized comments about the storm and power being out.  It is like we do not exist. Many of them anyway just kept their music formats or simulcast their AM sister stations.

The closest FM station is Westchester's WHUD, a 50kw flame thrower. They continued their lite music format instead of going with live coverage but provided a few news updates and school closings.  Early on I found them to be useless and the updates childish.  They should be embarrassed by their on air product.

WRCR 1300AM, a low powered daytime AM station which is not easy to receive in the northern part of the county actually provided local coverage. They did not seek out out information at first but took information from callers which included local officials.  It was surprisingly my only source of finding out what is going on even though at first the various hosts seemed to make no attempt to gather information.  I was able to find out about obtaining ice and information from public officials from them.

Cablevision's local News12.com site was too bandwidth intensive to bring up the page on a limited over capacity cell network.  Completely useless.  
The internet and cable is obviously useless when lines are down, no power and problematic wireless etc.  A generator or UPS is no help there. I am going to kick and punch my TV if I hear the major media proclaiming how great Twitter and Facebook is which for some reason they promote at risk of losing revenue to their own site. (another conversation)
 Flooding: For those living along the Hudson river, devastating for boaters and home owners.  I am near the river but up high enough not to be effected.  My pics did not turn out that well and could not get close enough for better ones since police have it blocked off.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Jenkinson's in Point made it.

----------


## kahless

> Jenkinson's in Point made it.


I like Jenks and looks like Martells made it to.  In the summer I like the bar all the way at the end with the purple roof.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Mantoloking bridge on the east side is wiped out though, with a new inlet.

Or, actually, an old one.

Cranberry Inlet used to be right around here, back in the 18th century.



Early in the century small settlements were established in Little Egg Harbor (Tuckerton) and Goose Creek (Toms River).

The barrier island that Island Beach State Park is a part of was once separated from the Barnegat peninsula by a natural inlet. Cranberry Inlet originally opened, by natural forces, in 1750. It is believed to have been located where modern day Ortley Beach is now found. The Inlet was eventually closed, again by nature, in 1812. The cranberry bogs in the area gave rise to the ephemeral inlet's name. At that time the fruits of the cranberry plant were an important resource for sailing ships. Sailors would collect the preservable cranberries to help prevent scurvy during long ocean voyages.

Cranberry inlet also became part of the history of New Jersey's Revolutionary War efforts. Local pirates were commissioned by the Continental Congress and the colony of New Jersey to prey on British shipping. Ships seized by the so called privateer boats were taken up Cranberry Inlet to Toms River or up Barnegat Inlet to Tuckerton. As a part of these hostilities a British expedition once attacked the Toms River Blockhouse. A compliment of twenty-five local militiamen were stationed there, under the command of Captain Joshua Huddy. The British forces razed Toms River and hung Huddy. A notoriously vicous local outlaw, John Bacon, and his men also carried out the Barnegat Light Massacre during this same period. This heinous crime occured when Bacon and his men slaughtered twenty crewmen from a salvaged British sloop.

By the late 1700s, Toms River and Tuckerton were busy seaports supporting a number of small businesses and homes. Colonists there would willingly purchase contraband goods from England and the West Indies. Tavern owners were especially eager to buy West Indies' molasses so they could make rum. Salt was also an important commodity at that time. It was the center of a small bay industry. Salt was in high demand, in part, because it was needed to make saltpeter, an ingredient of gunpowder

http://www.islandbeachnj.org/History/History.html

----------


## BamaAla

From my Twitter feed:

@brettadair:

"@JimCantore @4cast4you Huntsville Utilities crews turned away from NJ because they weren't union. They are now heading to Long Island, NY."

----------


## BamaAla

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/s...sandy-recovery




> SEASIDE HEIGHTS, NEW JERSEY (WAFF) -
> 
> The hurricane-ravaged east coast has been receiving north Alabama help, but crews from Huntsville Utilities learned they'll be doing work in Long Island, New York instead of in New Jersey. 
> 
> Crews from Huntsville, as well as Decatur Utilities and Joe Wheeler out of Trinity headed up there this week, but Derrick Moore, one of the Decatur workers, said they were told by crews in New Jersey that they can't do any work there since they're not union employees.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/s...sandy-recovery


Just goes to show, government is nothing but Tony Soprano with a badge.

----------


## angelatc

My brother in law is in Wantagh, Long Island.  We haven't heard from him yet. 

If anybody knows anything about that area, my husband would appreciate the information.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## mad cow

> From my Twitter feed:
> 
> @brettadair:
> 
> "@JimCantore @4cast4you Huntsville Utilities crews turned away from NJ because they weren't union. They are now heading to Long Island, NY."


Unbelievable.
I hope the candle makers are union.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> My brother in law is in Wantagh, Long Island.  We haven't heard from him yet. 
> 
> If anybody knows anything about that area, my husband would appreciate the information.


I would doubt anything was flooded too badly, north of Sunrise Highway.

There's some elevation there.

----------


## angelatc

> I would doubt anything was flooded too badly, north of Sunrise Highway.
> 
> There's some elevation there.


Thanks.  The logical part of me says they're fine, even if they don't have a cell phone or power.  But on day 3, the little nagging voice 
starts....

The local Patch has some pictures, and it certainly doesn't look like total devastation.  The comments had another person who is also looking for MIA family, and a commenter said it's probably ok - they hadn't heard of any injuries.

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## Indy Vidual

> My brother in law is in Wantagh, Long Island.  We haven't heard from him yet. 
> 
> If anybody knows anything about that area, my husband would appreciate the information.


Are you prepared for (somewhat) bad news?
WANTAGH, N.Y .-- "Everybody is in panic mode," said Venus Bennett, 37, standing on her front lawn in Wantagh and waiting for her husband to come back with a full gas tank....
...
"It is unbelievable what the storm did," he said.  ~Source

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## V3n

> That's great news.  Hope I find out the same for myself.  The waiting is the hardest part.  The main highway to my house is still closed.


We haven't heard from libertygrl in over a week.. I'm sure there's a lot more important things going on than this forum - but I'm starting to get a bit worried.. 

Hope to hear from you soon liberty!  If there's anything we can do to help - let us know!

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