# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Thomas Massie Forum >  Thomas Massie Voting NO!

## CaseyJones

First he stood with Walter Jones on Ukraine 

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...e-to-heel.aspx




> By an overwhelming vote of 381-2 the House went on record demanding that the democratically-elected government of Ukraine bow to the demands of protestors in the streets and accede to "the...European aspirations of the people of Ukraine, and their right to choose their own future free of intimidation and fear."
> 
> In other words, sign the association agreement with the EU or else.
> 
> The only two Members who held up the principle of non-interventionism by voting "no" were Thomas Massie (R-KY) and Walter Jones, Jr. (R-NC). Mr. Jones is an advisor to the Ron Paul Institute.


Now standing alone in voting No 

http://english.eluniversal.com/nacio...n-in-venezuela




> House passes resolution condemning repression in Venezuela
> 
> The chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee of the House, Ed Royce, praised the representatives for endorsing a motion that "supports Venezuelans who long for a return to the rule of law." The House voted 393-1 in favor of the legislation, with Republican Thomas Massie casting the only dissenting vote


http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...es-with-israel




> House easily approves closer strategic ties with Israel
> 
> The House voted Wednesday to boost the United States's strategic and military ties with Israel, putting pressure on the Obama administration even as it tries to broker a Middle East peace framework between Israel and Palestinian authorities.
> 
> Members passed the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act, H.R. 938, in an overwhelming 410-1 vote. The only "no" vote came from a Republican, Rep. Tom Massie (R-Ky.).
> 
> The legislation would require the Obama administration to help Israel address security threats, support a missile defense system in Israel and provide other military steps. Prior law only suggests that the administration take these steps, but the bill passed today requires them, and requires a progress report after 180 days.

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## MelissaWV

Good to see a lone voice on these issues again.

Now to make it less lonely.

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## Anti-Neocon

Walter Jones didn't vote on the latter two.  Not sure the reason why, but he has a primary and isn't afraid to vote his conscience.  I threw him a few $$.

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## Brett85

I think Massie has taken over Ron's role as the pure non interventionist in the house.

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## kcchiefs6465

H.R. 938 -- 354 cosponsors (207R, 147D)

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## kcchiefs6465

What was Amash's reasoning behind voting for this?

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## Mini-Me

Thomas Massie has now earned my trust.  Amash hasn't lost it, but it's a shame he didn't stand with Massie here.

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## sl7yz0r

> What was Amash's reasoning behind voting for this?


this

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## mosquitobite

> Thomas Massie has now earned my trust.  Amash hasn't lost it, but it's a shame he didn't stand with Massie here.


This is how I feel.

Proud that Massie moved from being a Ron Paul supporter, to being a Congressman with the same ethics and principles.  Good job Thomas!  I hope to meet you someday since I'm just north of our river.   Remember this username and I'll introduce myself as such.  ha!

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## Krzysztof Lesiak

Good job Massie. Not surprising that a lot of libertarians have interned for him.

Amash's votes are very disappointing.

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## kcchiefs6465

A summary of HR 938:




> Amends the Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012 to extend authority to: (1) make additions to foreign-based defense stockpiles, and (2) transfer certain obsolete or surplus Department of Defense (DOD) items to Israel.
> 
> Authorizes the President to carry out U.S.-Israel cooperative activities and to provide assistance for cooperation in the fields of energy, water, homeland security, agriculture, and alternative fuel technologies.
> 
> Amends the the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 to extend the grant program for U.S.-Israeli cooperation on research, development, and commercialization of renewable energy or energy efficiency.
> 
> Expresses the sense of Congress that the United States and Israel should increase cyber-security cooperation.
> 
> Urges the President to provide assistance for enhancement of the David's Sling Weapon System, the joint United States-Israel Arrow Weapon System, and the Iron Dome short-range rocket defense system.
> ...


81% of the House cosponsored it, 99.77% voted Aye.

Kerry Bentivolio was a cosponsor. Justin Amash was not.

It there any explanation to this bull$#@!?

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## Feeding the Abscess

> A summary of HR 938:
> 
> 
> 81% of the House cosponsored it, 99.77% voted Aye.
> 
> Kerry Bentivolio was a cosponsor. Justin Amash was not.
> 
> It there any explanation to this bull$#@!?


No justified explanation.

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## Occam's Banana

> Thomas Massie has now earned my trust.  Amash hasn't lost it, but it's a shame he didn't stand with Massie here.


Ditto. Massie is doing one helluva good job at replacing Amash as my favorite Congressman.

C'mon, Justin! It's not enough to earn it - you gotta keep earning it.

(I suppose I should be happy that the honor of being "my favorite Congressman" is even contestable ... it used to be just a one-man race ...)

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## luctor-et-emergo

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Thomas Massie, he does a real good job at keeping his promises and sticking to his guns. He clearly seems to understand one of Ron's most important points about being in politics while not being in the majority, having a bit of fun. But it has to be hard being the only one out of 435... So I think it's important we keep supporting him as best as we can.

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## kcchiefs6465

Perhaps I was not as clear as I should have been.

Thank you Thomas Massie for being the sole person in Congress I can count on. How this abhorrent legislation garnered so many cosponsors I'll never understand. You are the best Congressman in Washington. Keep up the great work and God bless.

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## asurfaholic

Thomas Massie,, much support and prayers from josh in nc

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## purplechoe

Thank you Thomas for replacing Ron Paul in being the lone vote...

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## KCIndy

> What was Amash's reasoning behind voting for this?


https://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash
According to Amash's Facebook page (scroll down to Feb. 10) his reasoning was:




> _I voted yes on the motion to suspend the rules and pass #HRes447, which expresses the support of the House for the democratic aspirations of the people of Ukraine and encourages involved parties to seek a peaceful resolution to the crisis there. The United States should not insert itself into the conflict in Ukraine, but I'm comfortable with this nonbinding resolution expressing disapproval of the use of violence. The resolution passed 381-2._


Hmph.

I'm not really sure what was accomplished by voting FOR a completely useless, nonbinding resolution that 99% of the people in Ukraine will likely never even know about....   very disappointing.

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## Sola_Fide

Impressive.

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## kcchiefs6465

> https://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash
> According to Amash's Facebook page (scroll down to Feb. 10) his reasoning was:
> 
> Hmph.
> 
> I'm not really sure what was accomplished by voting FOR a completely useless, nonbinding resolution that 99% of the people in Ukraine will likely never even know about....   very disappointing.


As marginally upsetting as a few of his other votes have been, I am very disappointed with his vote on HR 938.

What a travesty of legislation.

I think I find myself even more annoyed with the outright "obligation" many feel to vote 'Aye' on anything "pro"-Israel. How does this happen?... that a Congress allegedly representing the sovereignty of the United States, though more importantly, and most oft forgot, the sovereignty of the individual, has garnered 355 cosponsors and all but one to come to agreement for this horse$#@! (excluding those who did not vote, and I do hope Walter Jones would have also voted correctly)? The absurdity of "representation" has hardly been more evidently flagrant.

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## compromise

> What was Amash's reasoning behind voting for this?


Here's an explanation for an earlier vote that might help answer your question:




> I voted "yes" on the motion to suspend the rules and pass H R 4133, United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012. The bill reaffirms the U.S.-Israel security relationship, supports the continued development of a joint missile defense system and the production of the Iron Dome defense system, pledges to assist Israel to "forge a peaceful, negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that results in two states living side by side in peace and security," and temporarily extends an existing line of credit to Israel's government, which may not be used for activities outside of the 1967 borders. (This is constitutional in connection with Congress's power to raise and support Armies.)
> 
> My father is Palestinian and my mother is Syrian. Israel is far from perfect. Some of its policies and actions violate deeply held American principles of liberty and justice. But Israel is our closest friend in a very troubled region. Our national defense benefits from Israel's ability to defend itself and to serve as a check against neighboring authoritarian regimes and extremists. Assisting with training and the development of Israel's military capacity allows the U.S. to take a less interventionist role in the region. I am hopeful that American troops soon can leave the region and Israel and its neighbors can live in peace without U.S. aid or involvement. It passed 411-2-9.


Jones voted present on this one, Ron voted nay.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Here's an explanation for an earlier vote that might help answer your question:
> 
> Jones voted present on this one, Ron voted nay.


Thanks. Needless to say, I would wholeheartedly disagree with this: "Assisting with training and the development of Israel's military capacity allows the U.S. to take a less interventionist role in the region."

Assisting with training and the development of Israel's military capacity, i.e. supplying them with some of the means to oppress Palestinians, was listed by Osama Bin Laden as one of the reasons he was declaring war (along with our bases in Saudi Arabia and the death in Iraq caused by years of sanctions). It puts American citizens needlessly in harms way. Then 9/11 happened. And the most costly and evil intervention (if I had to choose, anyways) in American history was able to be justified to the American people. This is all connected. Justin Amash is wrong.

They call it, "jobs creation," to build death and destruction (after they give away what they've already built, or demill it, or push it into the ocean). It is not, "jobs creation," it is squandering people's stolen wealth. To top it all off, after they wantonly give away weapons of war leading to the oppression of many millions of people, or they overtly fund dictators, we are attacked for it at home or at our embassies abroad. At the least, and on an individual level, it would be foolish for an American to travel to certain areas abroad. Much because of our foreign policy. The resulting wars strip us of our freedom. It weakens the dollar, leading to more intervention abroad to make sure no one gets any ideas of not accepting them, and it will all fail. The chickens surely are coming home to roost. 

This vote summarizes everything wrong with this country. And the spineless bunch o' ticks in Washington (excluding a few, of course) rush to see who can be first, or loudest, in proclaiming they stand with Israel. It's so absurd.

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## devil21

> https://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash
> According to Amash's Facebook page (scroll down to Feb. 10) his reasoning was:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmph.
> 
> I'm not really sure what was accomplished by voting FOR a completely useless, nonbinding resolution that 99% of the people in Ukraine will likely never even know about....   very disappointing.


Non-binding resolutions are mostly political targeting tools imho.  Something, with no force of law, that opponents can point to during campaigns for attack material.  I don't like voting for them but sometimes it's necessary to avoid giving ammo that will be used against you later.

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## twomp

Bravo Mr. Massie!

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## Occam's Banana

> Here's an explanation for an earlier vote that might help answer your question:


He changed his mind on that one - and on all later bills of the same nature: https://www.facebook.com/repjustinam..._fb_noscript=1




> I have reconsidered my support for any bill like H.R. 4133, as it pertains to ANY country, in the future.
> 
>  I recognize that there is a lot of misinformation about this bill. It  does only one genuinely substantive thing: It extends an existing line  of credit for about three more years. This is not additional funding and  certainly not "unlimited aid."
> 
>  I also disagree with commenters  who believe that foreign MILITARY aid and alliances are  unconstitutional. If the U.S. government concludes that they are  beneficial to OUR defense, then they certainly are constitutional as a  Necessary and Proper correlate of Congress's power to raise and support  Armies. This has been the view in our country from the Founders on.
> 
>  However, as a policy matter, I believe that the U.S. should not extend  credit (or aid) to another country on an ongoing basis through  legislation. It's time for the U.S. to stop acting as a bank to the rest  of the world. After all, with Congress and the President refusing to  make any substantial changes to our spending policies, our government  simply doesn't have any money to lend.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> He changed his mind on that one - and on all later bills of the same nature: https://www.facebook.com/repjustinam..._fb_noscript=1


Until these bills, at least.

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## Occam's Banana

> Until these bills, at least.


Actually, if these bills do not involve extending any credit to other countries (or otherwise loaning or spending any money), then at least he isn't contradicting the terms or conditions of his "reconsideration" by supporting these bills.

Which is NOT to say that his support for them is not disappointing for other reasons ...

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## LibertyEagle

> I have a tremendous amount of respect for Thomas Massie, he does a real good job at keeping his promises and sticking to his guns. He clearly seems to understand one of Ron's most important points about being in politics while not being in the majority, having a bit of fun. But it has to be hard being the only one out of 435... So I think it's important we keep supporting him as best as we can.


Didn't he vote for some of the more recent non-free trade agreements though?  That concerns me.

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## compromise

> Didn't he vote for some of the more recent non-free trade agreements though?  That concerns me.


I don't know about that, but the 2011 votes by Amash and Rand in favor of free trade were definitely right. Amash gave good explanations:




> Here's the roll call for H R 3080, United States-Korea Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act. On average, Korea imposes tariffs twice as large on American goods and services as the United States imposes on Korean imports. This bill reduces that imbalance. Korea is a large and growing market, particularly for Michigan manufacturing. I voted yes. It passed 278-151."
> 
> Here's the roll call for H R 3079, United States-Panama Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act. Industrial goods from the United States face an average 7% tariff when sold in Panama, while almost all similar goods from Panama are sold in the United States duty-free. *Opening up foreign markets to U.S. goods and services can help our businesses expand and create jobs*. I voted yes. It passed 300-129.
> 
> Here's the roll call for H R 3078, United States-Colombia Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act. The bill approves the text of the trade agreement and makes corresponding changes to U.S. customs law. Like the other trade agreements in this vote series, the Colombia agreement *reduces government interference in trade*. The agreement does not move as quickly as I'd prefer, but it's a good first step. It will ensure that our producers have a level playing field when selling in Colombia while also giving Americans access to a greater variety of products and services. I voted yes. It passed 262-167.

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## singe22

Good Job Massie.  Lets get you ready for 2020 run and free the constitution.

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## compromise

> Good Job Massie.  Lets get you ready for 2020 run and free the constitution.


Senate run?

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## singe22

President.  2016 winner is going to be a 1 term.

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## compromise

Amash's good explanation:



> I voted yes on the motion to suspend the rules and pass #HR938, United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act of 2014. This bill has significant flaws, but it cuts foreign aid to Pakistan by $13 million. Pakistan's government has been hostile to the United States and appears likely to have helped conceal the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden. I support phasing out foreign aid, starting with countries like Pakistan. The bill extends for one year a program that allows the Department of Defense to sell surplus equipment to Israel, and it authorizes $3 million for mutually beneficial joint research projects with Israel on border security and explosive detection; but it also sets aside $2 million per year from existing energy grant funds for energy-related joint ventures between American and Israeli companies. I oppose all corporate welfare, including these grants. It passed 410-1.

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## Sola_Fide

> Senate run?


Hope so.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Amash's good explanation:


Actually, it was not.

He supported it because it cut aid to Pakistan by 13 million?

Hmmm.




> *Section 102(a) of the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009 (Public Law 11173) is amended by striking $1,500,000,000 and inserting $1,487,000,000.*


So you mean to tell me, that aside from the horrendous aspects of aligning with Israel, aligning with corporate welfare receiving military hardware producers, that this bull$#@! also lends credibility to giving Pakistan money in the first place?

But then to attempt to justify this godawful vote by saying "cutting Pakistani aid $13,000,000." Out of 1.5 billion!? That's less than a percent! $13,000,000 in the grand scheme of things is a drop. Not even a drop, evidently, as it's only .8 percent of the aid we give _Pakistan._

And then to top it off there's this:



> (1)In general
> *The Secretary of Homeland Security, acting through the Director of the Homeland Security Advanced Research Projects Agency and with the concurrence of the Secretary of State, is authorized to enter into cooperative research pilot programs with Israel to enhance Israels capabilities in the following areas:*
> 
> (A)Border, maritime, and aviation security.
> (B)Explosives detection.
> (C)Emergency services.
> (2)Authorization of appropriations
> 
> *For fiscal year 2014, there are authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary of Homeland Security
> ...





> 105.Report on other matters
> (a)Sense of Congress
> *It is the sense of Congress that*
> 
> *(1)the United States and Israel should continue collaborative efforts to enhance Israels military capabilities, including through the transfer of advanced combat aircraft, active phased array radar, military tanker-transports, other multi-mission military aircraft, advanced or specialized munitions, and through joint training and exercise opportunities in the United States;*
> 
> (2)the United States and Israel should expeditiously conclude an updated Memorandum of Understanding regarding United States security assistance in order to help Israel meet its unique security requirements and uphold its qualitative military edge;
> 
> *(3)the United States should ensure that Israel has timely access to important military equipment, including by augmenting the forward deployed United States War Reserve Stockpile in Israel and by continuing to provide Israel with critical military equipment and spare parts through the Department of Defenses Excess Defense Articles program; and*


Ridiculous.

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## Hyperion

Massie is separating himself from the pack. Of course Amash is amazing but Massie is a cut above.

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## cindy25

shows more and more that Massie needs to win Rand's seat.

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## TaftFan

> Massie is separating himself from the pack. Of course Amash is amazing but Massie is a cut above.


I love Massie, but he did vote for the farm bill. I understand his reasoning (logrolling), just as I understand Justin's.

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## Brian4Liberty

Great votes Thomas!




> Walter Jones didn't vote on the latter two.  Not sure the reason why, but he has a primary and isn't afraid to vote his conscience.  I threw him a few $$.


Well, voting present or not voting would be alternatives to voting no. Explanation: "It's the business of another country, I am not a Representative in that country, so I refuse to vote on it."




> Amash's good explanation:


Logrolling. Why does a bill about Israel include Pakistan issues, unless it was a bill that applied to all foreign nations equally? 

It's pretty much a given that bundling everything up into mega-bills is a key problem in our government today. It allows things to get passed that might have as a little as 1/435 support in the House or 1/100 support in the Senate. I would be tempted to vote "no" on every Bill that included more than a single subject, or at least very closely related items. One of the biggest mistakes our Founders made was not requiring a 75% majority for Congress to pass anything. Hell, make that 80%.

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## Occam's Banana

> One of the biggest mistakes our Founders made was not requiring a 75% majority for Congress to pass anything. Hell, make that 80%.


For that matter, why not require unanimity?

_Quod omnes tangit, ab omnibus approbetur_.

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## Todd

> Thomas Massie has now earned my trust.  Amash hasn't lost it, but it's a shame he didn't stand with Massie here.


+1

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## politics

JUST GREAT!
SINCERELY CONGRATULATIONS!

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## MichaelDavis

> Ditto. Massie is doing one helluva good job at replacing Amash as my favorite Congressman.
> 
> C'mon, Justin! It's not enough to earn it - you gotta keep earning it.
> 
> (I suppose I should be happy that the honor of being "my favorite Congressman" is even contestable ... it used to be just a one-man race ...)


Justin is better on economic issues. Thomas has voted for the pork-filled Farm Bill twice. There is no such thing as a perfect Congressman (not even Ron Paul). I'm glad Justin voted for this bill because it passed overwhelmingly regardless. A nay vote would have only hurt him in his primary campaign.

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