# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Profitable Urban Farming. A realistic view with farmer Curtis Stone.

## FunkBuddha

This blew my mind. 

http://www.permaculturevoices.com/po...r-acre-pvp083/

Working your ass off and making $50,000 on a quarter acre. 

Key Takeaways:

    Even if the worst happened and the business failed.  How bad would it actually be?

    Learn stuff as you need to.  You dont have to learn everything up front.  Doing is more important that constantly trying to learn more and know it all.

    Often times a hard commitment or commitment to deliver is what can really make you go out and take something on and work it out and make it happen.

    If it has been done before, then it can be done. 

    Realize the power of saying no.  You cant do it all.

    Dont over complicate the model.  Get it up and working and stable, then innovate, tweak and push the limits.

    Consider the value of your time.  Are you spending your time doing high dollar activities?

    80% of your profits come from 20% of your crops.  What crops are you focusing on?

    80% of land is dedicated to high and medium value crops.

    You dont have to quit your job to do this.  Start on the side.


Quotables:

    If you believe that you can do it, then you can do it.

    Youve gotta hustle to do this.

    You have to accomplish something before you move onto the next thing.  The failure of multi-tasking.

    Go with what you know.

    An urban farmer is far more than just a food producing farmer.  Youre an educator, youre a connector, youre doing a social service to the community, by showing people, hands on, this is how you grow 10,000lbs of food in 2000sq.ft.

    This is the beauty of urban farming, you are in the market.  The market is right there.

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## FunkBuddha

The Urban Farmer series with Curtis Stone. I'm listening to this now.

http://www.permaculturevoices.com/ca...-urban-farmer/

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## FunkBuddha

Curtis Stone on The Survival Podcast

Episode-1567- Curtis Stone on Making a Living of the Land, New Anarchism and Local Trade

Get ready and strap in today.  We are going to really blow things up with our guest Curtis Stone.  Curtis Stone is the owner/operator of Green City Acres (est. 2010), a commercial urban farm based out of Kelowna, BC. Farming under a half acre of land spread over multiple plots in the downtown core, they sell vegetables to some of the cities best restaurants, wineries, and a weekly farmers market.

Curtis also works as an educator, consultant, and writer on the subject urban farming throughout North America.  He joins us today to discuss three explosive topics…

    1. Implementation of quick cash flow based annuals into pasture and perennial based farms.

    2. The New Anarchist Front; escaping tyranny by using urban ag as a vehicle to build social equity in cities through production, education, outreach, and getting rich at the same time. Urban farmers as a decentralized unified front for State dissent from within the belly of the beast.

    3. Local trade economics; food production is like printing money. Leveraging what everyone needs to get what you need. Farmers sit at the center of a multi ring circle. Food production is central, value add food is next, then food services, and from there we have skilled labor and trades, and outside of that is specialized services and expertise. Farming is the backbone of the local economy. In this new decentralized local economy, farmers are the lynchpin to the whole system, not the indentured laborers.

When I met Curtis I was excited to talk to him knowing about his successful 6 figure business, that began on land he didn’t own, in the suburbs, in the back yards of others.   Basically he had set a high bar for himself, one he easily cleared.  There are few times that I meet a person and immediately feel I am talking to a true brother in spirit, Curtis is one such person.  Today’s show will absolutely rock!

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## FunkBuddha

Book: The Urban Farmer

Farm Website: Green City Acres

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## Suzanimal

Thanks. I've been thinking about selling/bartering some of my extra at the popular produce stand in town. One of my friends trades peaches for other produce he doesn't grow. Instead of buying the peaches from him, they give him a store credit for more than the cash amount and he can purchase anything he wants. I love that stand. They not only sell produce, they also sell raw grass fed milk, butter and cheese. 

I might not be able to make my garden as lucrative as this guy but every little bit helps.

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## FunkBuddha

> I might not be able to make my garden as lucrative as this guy but every little bit helps.



I'm considering trying out some of this guy's techniques on a separate plot from my family garden to raise some produce to sell to the folks in the cube farm with me.

Post back when you finish listening. I'd like to hear your (or anybody elses) thoughts.

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## donnay

I am growing a lot of stuff this year to do just that, barter.  Of course around the country they are cracking down on this freedom.  They cannot have people growing their own food, barter and not be taxed.

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## Terry1

This is great!  Yeah, a lot of work too.  Wish I had more time to do something like this.  I have a small raised bed garden that supplies me with veggies and herbs through the winter, that's about all I've got time for now.  I don't use any pesticides on anything either and I always have a good crop.  Me and my next door neighbor exchange veggies every year too.  I also give a lot of them to my friends and neighbors.

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## Barrex

This year I took 2 kilos of every possible seed that can grow in our climate(watedmelons, onions, carrots, garlick etc) . I mixed it up and just spread it over land. I will not irrigate, water it or use fertilizer. Just throw seeds into an area 20x30 meters and let it grow or die naturally.

I am interested to see what will happen.

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## Suzanimal

From Lew Rockwell




> The Cash Value of Home Gardens
> By Charles Hugh Smith
> OfTwoMinds.com
> May 6, 2015
> 
> The ROI (return on investment) of a home garden can be $1,000 a year and $30/hour.
> 
> The benefits of a vegetable garden extend beyond the food being grown and the superiority of that food in nutritional value and quality over agribusiness-grown vegetables. I listed some of these intangible benefits in The Hidden Value of Gardens (September 13, 2014).
> 
> ...


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/05/...etable-garden/

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## FunkBuddha

I've made it through episode 3 of The Urban Farmer series... I thought I was a fairly optimized human as far as time management, but I've got nothing on this guy. I'd give at least $300-$400 from the information I've gleaned.

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## jbauer

> This year I took 2 kilos of every possible seed that can grow in our climate(watedmelons, onions, carrots, garlick etc) . I mixed it up and just spread it over land. I will not irrigate, water it or use fertilizer. Just throw seeds into an area 20x30 meters and let it grow or die naturally.
> 
> I am interested to see what will happen.


Thats cool.  What climate?  You'll have to send us the results.

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## jbauer

I haven't watched the videos.  I've got a 1/2 acre garden.  With 90% in sweetcorn.  You could make quite a bit of money if worked it hard.  I have friends from college that grow alternative crops like asparagus and pumpkins and I've seen their cash flows on it, so it can be done.  

The problem I see in calling something an urban garden is the ability to make quality soil.  If you're in a place where you have good soil to begin with maybe this isn't an issue.  I've got red clay and what they call topsoil here is slightly less red clay.  It requires fertilizer to get much of anything to grow.  If you're not going to use fertilizer then you need access to natural fertilizers such as animal waste or the use of nitrogen fixing plants.

Back to the point, can you really call it urban gardening if you're using resources taken from other places?  Or would a better label be urban micro gardening.

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## FunkBuddha

> This year I took 2 kilos of every possible seed that can grow in our climate(watedmelons, onions, carrots, garlick etc) . I mixed it up and just spread it over land. I will not irrigate, water it or use fertilizer. Just throw seeds into an area 20x30 meters and let it grow or die naturally.
> 
> I am interested to see what will happen.


i'm going to lightly till an area 16ft x 20ft in one of my chicken paddocks and toss all of my old seed along with a pasture mix in there this weekend. I've also got a few squash plants to put in there to lure in the squash bugs. After 1-2 months, I'll let the chickens loose. Once they pick through it for a few days, I'll transplant my squash, cucumbers etc... sometime after July 4th. 

We'll see how it goes. The squash bugs were rampant last year.

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## Barrex

> Thats cool.  What climate?  You'll have to send us the results.


Continental. Very fertile land everywhere. no barren fields. Either it is Forrest or grass.




> i'm going to lightly till an area 16ft x 20ft in one of my chicken paddocks and toss all of my old seed along with a pasture mix in there this weekend. I've also got a few squash plants to put in there to lure in the squash bugs. After 1-2 months, I'll let the chickens loose. Once they pick through it for a few days, I'll transplant my squash, cucumbers etc... sometime after July 4th. 
> 
> We'll see how it goes. The squash bugs were rampant last year.


Yea. I forgot to tell that entire field was plowed/tilled (not sure which is which...English). Most of it is planted using traditional methods. 20x30 is just throwing seeds around. no seeds, grass, weed etc. have all same start. I didnt throw seeds on a lawn. That would be stupid (hm...I might do it next year). No transplanting for me. All natural. I want to see how it goes if I dont do anything.

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## osan

I've got about 3000# of goat poo mixed with urine and hay on a compost heap outside the barn.  By the end of June it will be ready.  Up to about 50 trees in the orchard - small, but enough for us.  About 100 berry bushes including blueberry, raspberry (at least 5 varieties) blackberry, yostaberry, wineberry, and soon to add white-, black-, and red currants.  Cherries, apples, peaches, apricots, nectarines, pears, plums, figs, walnuts, soon to add hazelnuts and who knows what else.

I hope to one day dam the hollow to 30 feet x about 75 x 300 for approximately 2.5 million gallons of fresh water, to be stocked with catfish and bluegill.  That may or may not happen... lot of work and I need to find a dozer.

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## jbauer

Ponds are work!!!  I've got 2, ones an acre.  Planted 150+ bushes this year of all kinds.  I don't see Elderberries in your list?  I've also never heard of a wineberry.  Gonna have to check that out!! 




> I've got about 3000# of goat poo mixed with urine and hay on a compost heap outside the barn.  By the end of June it will be ready.  Up to about 50 trees in the orchard - small, but enough for us.  About 100 berry bushes including blueberry, raspberry (at least 5 varieties) blackberry, yostaberry, wineberry, and soon to add white-, black-, and red currants.  Cherries, apples, peaches, apricots, nectarines, pears, plums, figs, walnuts, soon to add hazelnuts and who knows what else.
> 
> I hope to one day dam the hollow to 30 feet x about 75 x 300 for approximately 2.5 million gallons of fresh water, to be stocked with catfish and bluegill.  That may or may not happen... lot of work and I need to find a dozer.

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## osan

> Ponds are work!!!  I've got 2, ones an acre.  Planted 150+ bushes this year of all kinds.  I don't see Elderberries in your list?  I've also never heard of a wineberry.  Gonna have to check that out!!


Wineberries are red like raspberries and shiny like blackberries.  I have them growing wild in the hollow, too.

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## P3ter_Griffin

> I haven't watched the videos.  I've got a 1/2 acre garden.  With 90% in sweetcorn.  You could make quite a bit of money if worked it hard.  I have friends from college that grow alternative crops like asparagus and pumpkins and I've seen their cash flows on it, so it can be done.  
> 
> The problem I see in calling something an urban garden is the ability to make quality soil.  If you're in a place where you have good soil to begin with maybe this isn't an issue.  I've got red clay and what they call topsoil here is slightly less red clay.  It requires fertilizer to get much of anything to grow.  If you're not going to use fertilizer then you need access to natural fertilizers such as animal waste or the use of nitrogen fixing plants.
> 
> Back to the point, can you really call it urban gardening if you're using resources taken from other places?  Or would a better label be urban micro gardening.


I know in Milwaukee WI, and I'm sure many other places, human waste is composted for Agriculture use.  And of course leaf compost, grass clippings, wood chips/saw dust, expired produce (both from individuals and grocery stores) is available too.  I think if someone makes it of high enough importance they could get all their inputs from local urban sources.
__

http://www.growingpower.org I think this company 'Growing Power' has a good urban farming model.  They build their own soil, they build use and sell their own worm castings, they do aquaponics.  So they sell worm casting, produce, fish, and they sell their service helping other individuals open urban farms.

Another good resource I've found on the matter is Eliot Coleman.  He and his wife own a rural farm so the information he presents in his books aren't focused on urban farming, but many of his practices though I think could benefit an urban farmer.  But more specifically, in his book The Winter Harvest Handbook he has a chapter on Paris market gardening in the 19th century.  They used very intensive techniques and with 6% of the land Paris became a net exporter of produce.  Unfortunately cars don't poop out black gold like the horses they used for transportation at the time did, and my understanding is that horse manure is the best manure to use for vegetable production, so maybe such intensive techniques aren't possible in an urban setting today (without shipping the poop in I guess).  Irregardless, I haven't been able to find any extensive resources on the practice that is written in english, so I've been meaning for a few years now to get a french grammar and a french to english dictionary and pick up a french book hopefully written by one of the market gardeners themselves about the practice and the life of a market gardener to translate to english.

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## donnay

> Another good resource I've found on the matter is Eliot Coleman.  He and his wife own a rural farm so the information he presents in his books aren't focused on urban farming, but many of his practices though I think could benefit an urban farmer.  But more specifically, in his book The Winter Harvest Handbook he has a chapter on Paris market gardening in the 19th century.  They used very intensive techniques and with 6% of the land Paris became a net exporter of produce.  Unfortunately cars don't poop out black gold like the horses they used for transportation at the time did, and my understanding is that horse manure is the best manure to use for vegetable production, so maybe such intensive techniques aren't possible in an urban setting today (without shipping the poop in I guess).  Irregardless, I haven't been able to find any extensive resources on the practice that is written in english, so I've been meaning for a few years now to get a french grammar and a french to english dictionary and pick up a french book hopefully written by one of the market gardeners themselves about the practice and the life of a market gardener to translate to english.


I love Eliot Coleman.  He has some very insightful and easy ways to eat year round.  I am going to try his techniques this year.  He is in Maine, and most people think growing seasons in the Northeast are short, but Eliot proves them wrong.

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## jbauer

Horse manure is terrible from a nutrient standpoint.  A horse doesn't have much digestion take place in their stomach.  Most of it is done in the "hind-gut" or colon.  This means that things are digested terribly well including a lot of weed seeds.  Rabbit and chicken are great.  Cow and hog is good.  




> I know in Milwaukee WI, and I'm sure many other places, human waste is composted for Agriculture use.  And of course leaf compost, grass clippings, wood chips/saw dust, expired produce (both from individuals and grocery stores) is available too.  I think if someone makes it of high enough importance they could get all their inputs from local urban sources.
> __
> 
> http://www.growingpower.org I think this company 'Growing Power' has a good urban farming model.  They build their own soil, they build use and sell their own worm castings, they do aquaponics.  So they sell worm casting, produce, fish, and they sell their service helping other individuals open urban farms.
> 
> Another good resource I've found on the matter is Eliot Coleman.  He and his wife own a rural farm so the information he presents in his books aren't focused on urban farming, but many of his practices though I think could benefit an urban farmer.  But more specifically, in his book The Winter Harvest Handbook he has a chapter on Paris market gardening in the 19th century.  They used very intensive techniques and with 6% of the land Paris became a net exporter of produce.  Unfortunately cars don't poop out black gold like the horses they used for transportation at the time did, and my understanding is that horse manure is the best manure to use for vegetable production, so maybe such intensive techniques aren't possible in an urban setting today (without shipping the poop in I guess).  Irregardless, I haven't been able to find any extensive resources on the practice that is written in english, so I've been meaning for a few years now to get a french grammar and a french to english dictionary and pick up a french book hopefully written by one of the market gardeners themselves about the practice and the life of a market gardener to translate to english.

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## P3ter_Griffin

I found a free google ebook on the practices of the Paris market gardener, the same book I had in my amazon wish list for a few years and I believe one of the ones mentioned by Eliot Coleman in his book.  Manuel pratique de la culture maraichère de Paris .  Google can translate the text to which is cool, you can understand what they are saying, but I'll still need a grammar book to transcribe it.  Does anyone know how the IP works on this kind of thing, the book its dated 1845, am I free to translate it to english and put it in a distributable form and either sell or give it away?

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