# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Justin Amash Forum >  Amash Hints at 2020 Presidential Run

## jct74

> *Amash Hints at 2020 Presidential Run*
> 
> Elias J. Atienza
> July 30, 2016
> 
> Representative Justin Amash (R-MI) hinted at a 2020 run during his speech at the Young Americans for Liberty National Convention. As one of the few libertarian Republicans in elected office, Amash is looking to continue the movement Ron Paul inspired.
> 
> 
> 
> ...

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## angelatc

And for the record, let me be clear - that if you're supporting Trump, but not Amash, you are not doing the Liberty thing right.

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## Smitty

> Sure, which is the same thing Ron Paul did. So did Sarah Palin.  But Ron Paul made it clear that he was running to spread a message.  Trump isn't.  He says a lot of things people want to hear, but if he doesn't win the presidency, hearing him say those things won't create any cohesion behind a new candidate.


You're probably right. And as I've stated previously,..Trump's people were there when Trump showed up and they'll still be there even if he doesn't win.

The "movement" occurred spontaneously. Or,...to be more accurate, it was created by the corruption and actions of the left.

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## Smitty

> And for the record, let me be clear - that if you're supporting Trump, but not Amash, you are not doing the Liberty thing right.


I don't support TPP.

I don't support illegal immigration.

Anyone who does isn't supporting my definition of personal liberty.

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## angelatc

> You're probably right. And as I've stated previously,..Trump's people were there when Trump showed up and they'll still be there even if he doesn't win.
> 
> The "movement" occurred spontaneously. Or,...to be more accurate, it was created by the corruption and actions of the left.


At this point, we have a one party system.  The corruption and actions on both sides is what drove Ron Paul, the TEA Party, and the Trump movements.   

But unless we can get a leader who can successfully play "We are all in this together!"  to contrast the divisive politics of the left (where women hate men, rich hate poor, straights hate gays, and blacks hate whites, etc) it's all for naught.

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## Smitty

> At this point, we have a one party system.


Not this time.

This time we have a Democratic candidate who was running her own little private feifdon out of the State Dept and is owes half the world favors vs. a successful businessman who took time off from his extreme life of leisure to risk his life running against the powers that be. Not in the same way Ron Paul did,...but against the same enemy that Ron Paul had.

I wish Amash had made the right wager,...but he didn't.

He cast his lot with Ted. Ted wasn't worth it in the first place and he's even lower now.

Amash has some very serious damage control to attend to. He needs to get with it if he wants a career in politics.

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## angelatc

> N
> Amash has some very serious damage control to attend to. He needs to get with it if he wants a career in politics.


It won't be the Trump faction who takes him out, it will be the establishment moderates though.    So far, the Trump movement has not accomplished anything.

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## Smitty

> It won't be the Trump faction who takes him out, it will be the establishment moderates though.    So far, the Trump movement has not accomplished anything.


The Trump faction won't "take him out". They just won't show up to vote for him.

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## angelatc

> The Trump faction won't "take him out". They just won't show up to vote for him.


That's ok, because they won't be voting for anybody else, either.  Amash has managed to hold a red seat in a blue state.  Moving to the far right isn't going to help him in Michigan.  

Which is why I'd like to see him run for, and win, the governorship before trying for the White House.  He's the right mix of left and right: civil liberties from the left, and economic liberty from the right.

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## Smitty

> That's ok, because they won't be voting for anybody else, either.


Maybe. It'll be interesting to watch.

Trump has shown what it takes to get the support of the very large "rained on " faction.

If Trump doesn't win, it'll be interesting to see what kind of candidate comes in to appeal to that faction.

My guess is, Trump is the nicest one you'll see.

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## angelatc

> Maybe. It'll be interesting to watch.
> 
> Trump has shown what it takes to get the support of the very large "rained on " faction.
> 
> If Trump doesn't win, it'll be interesting to see what kind of candidate comes in to appeal to that faction.
> 
> My guess is, Trump is the nicest one you'll see.


That could be a great thing.  If Trump's legacy takes the party fajthful the hard right, and the left turns full blown prog, the middle ground will be very fertile.

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## specsaregood

Just reading the term _"Trump movement"_ leaves me feeling like I need to take dump, urgently.

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## Smitty

> That could be a great thing.  If Trump's legacy takes the party fajthful the hard right, and the left turns full blown prog, the middle ground will be very fertile.


Except Trump's supporters are already to the right of Trump.

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## PursuePeace

I would love to see Paul, Amash, and Massie all on the debate stage together.
A truly united force for truth. 
Incredibly effective.


Stark contrast:

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## angelatc

> Except Trump's supporters are already to the right of Trump.


So is Ron Paul.

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## CPUd

> The Trump faction won't "take him out". They just won't show up to vote for him.


Why didn't the "Trump Movement" show up to vote for Tim Huelskamp?

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## Smitty

> Why didn't the "Trump Movement" show up to vote for Tim Huelskamp?


Because Huelskamp was extremely anti Trump.

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## r3volution 3.0

> They're all on the wrong side of the illegal immigration issue. None of them will get out of the starting blocks.
> 
> Trump beat out every other GOP contender by taking a hard stance on the illegal immigration issue. That's why he's the GOP candidate.


That's also why he's going to suffer an exceptional whooping in November.

The hardcore anti-immigrant movement has no political future.

It'll piss about for a while and then go out with an inglorious whimper like the Southern segregationists of past decades.

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## angelatc

> Why didn't the "Trump Movement" show up to vote for Tim Huelskamp?


They voted for the other guy, who will give them subsidies.  




Total outsider position.....

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## Smitty

> .
> The hardcore anti-immigrant movement has no political future.


You very well may be right. But if that happens it will also mean that there's no peaceful resolution to the eventual outcome of the U.S.A.

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## Brian4Liberty

> _Amash is one of the few remaining left in the Never Trump movement_


You quoted an article, but is there any truth to that opinion? Is Amash really running around with Bill Kristol looking for a new candidate to support at this point? 

Amash switched to Cruz after Rand dropped out. That is the history. What makes Amash "one of the few left in the never Trump movement" today?

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## r3volution 3.0

> You very well may be right. But if that happens it will also mean that there's no peaceful resolution to the eventual outcome of the U.S.A.


Somehow I don't see federal police trying to hunt down and forcibly deport 10 million people as conducive to peace...

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## Smitty

> You quoted an article, but is there any truth to that opinion?


I took it from the link in the OP.

Ask the guy who posted it.

People link a lot of crap on here. One has to be discering about it.

But Regardless,..Amash is a Cruz guy and he's soft on illegal immigration. That's easy enough to verify without the OP's link.

Those young fellows in Congress feel like they have to hold that position on immigration because that's what the establishment wants.

But the people don't want it,...not the Republicans, anyway.

It took Trump to show the people that they were part of a big group if they were against illegal immigration.

If another member of the right ever gets elected, a hard stance against illegal immigration will play a big part in it.

That's been demonstrated.

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## afwjam

I wish the Trump supporters would stay in their authoritarians for president forum.

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## Smitty

> Somehow I don't see federal police trying to hunt down and forcibly deport 10 million people as conducive to peace...


Probably not. But the Mexican illegals will be forgotten soon enough if the immigration situation isn't accounted for.

Hillary's handlers are planning to do to America what Merkel's handlers had her do to Germany.

Western Europe has gotten *all* out of shape.

It's going to take a war to settle what's happened over there,..and there's definitely no good prediction on what the outcome will be,....but there's a nasty war somewhere between now and when it's resolved.

That will happen in America if nothing gets in its way.

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## phill4paul

> I took it from the link in the OP.
> 
> Ask the guy who posted it.
> 
> People link a lot of crap on here. One has to be discering about it.
> 
> But Regardless,..Amash is a Cruz guy and he's soft on illegal immigration. That's easy enough to verify without the OP's link.
> 
> Those young fellows in Congress feel like they have to hold that position on immigration because that's what the establishment wants.
> ...


  By 2020, if teh Donald is elected and it turns out he is not a plant to get Hillary elected, the blow back against his admin. and positions is going to be yuuuge. The time would be right for Amash.

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## Smitty

Only if Amash sees the light and embraces the Alt-Right.

That's where the GOP is headed. It's about a half generation away,....probably not that much.

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## phill4paul

> Only if Amash sees the light and embraces the Alt-Right.
> 
> That's where the GOP is headed. It's about a half generation away,....probably not that much.


  The alt-right is a phase that is going to experience blow-back. Like a dog rolling in anothers' $#@!, revel in it while you may. In the end it is not sustainable.

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## Smitty

The Alt-Right is inevitable. 

The left has force fed too many people the red pill.

Us red pill people ain't got nowhere else to go.

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## William Tell

> The Alt-Right is inevitable. 
> 
> The left has force fed too many people the red pill.
> 
> Us red pill people ain't got nowhere else to go.


Yay for the orange pill. you go running to the first Clinton donor who you see. "Help us mister trump we are the alt right".

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## phill4paul

> The Alt-Right is inevitable. 
> 
> The left has force fed too many people the red pill.
> 
> Us red pill people ain't got nowhere else to go.


  Inevitably unsustainable. Like a hot-head blowing off it will eventually burn out. Probably after about 4 yrs. of teh Donald.

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## r3volution 3.0

> Probably not. But the Mexican illegals will be forgotten soon enough if the immigration situation isn't accounted for.
> 
> Hillary's handlers are planning to do to America what Merkel's handlers had her do to Germany.


The great, civilization-ending crime wave facing Germany is fictional: propaganda created by your camp to justify nationalist feelz. 

The real and only meaningful threat to Europe is, as its been for a century, socialism. 

...which Trumpllary will indeed keep advancing here in the US. 




> It's going to take a war to settle what's happened over there,..and there's definitely no good prediction on what the outcome will be,....but there's a nasty war somewhere between now and when it's resolved.
> 
> That will happen in America if nothing gets in its way.


I know you fellas dream of fighting it out Mad Max style with the snakbars, but there'll be nothing of the sort.

...just a continuation of the post-9/11 trend, with sporadic attacks motivating the fearful to give up ever more of their rights.

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## Smitty

The red pill people were responsible for the Ron Paul movement.

It didn't make it.

The red pill people have moved on to something that offers a more substantial, more combative foundation.

Maybe us freedom minded people can experience true, unencumbered liberty someday. I'd like to think so.

But there's some serious obstacles between here and there right now.

Before we can experience the type of liberty that libertarians espouse, this country, indeed, this *world* is going to need a good enema.

From what I see, it's going to take some hardcore,  malevolent nationalism before we can work to achieve that.

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## phill4paul

> The red pill people were responsible for the Ron Paul movement.
> 
> It didn't make it.
> 
> The red pill people have moved on to something that offers a more substantial, more combative foundation.
> 
> Maybe us freedom minded people can experience true, unencumbered liberty someday. I'd like to think so.
> 
> But there's some serious obstacles between here and there right now.
> ...


  I'm a "red pill," "Ron Paul movement" person. I don't for an instant buy into the alt-right Trump-gasm. Nor do I think any sizable portion of those that were "cured of their apathy" do. The malevolent nationalists are a different breed entirely.

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## CPUd

Ron Paul's message unites, Trump's message divides.

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## angelatc

> By 2020, if teh Donald is elected and it turns out he is not a plant to get Hillary elected, the blow back against his admin. and positions is going to be yuuuge. The time would be right for Amash.


 Not if he is on the GOP ticket.  That's how Carter got elected.

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## Smitty

> I'm a "red pill," "Ron Paul movement" person. I don't for an instant buy into the alt-right Trump-gasm. Nor do I think any sizable portion of those that were "cured of their apathy" do. The malevolent nationalists are a different breed entirely.



Yeah, yeah,...I know.

You haven't got there yet. Maybe you never will. Some won't.

I like this statement from Patrick Buchanan about people like you.

http://buchanan.org/blog/is-a-new-gop-being-born-124893

_As in 1964 and 1980, a new Republican Party is taking shape.

Defections are to be expected, and not altogether unwelcome._

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## phill4paul

> Not if he is on the GOP ticket.  That's how Carter got elected.


  True enough. The pendulum would swing wildly. Good point.

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## angelatc

> Yeah, yeah,...I know.
> 
> You haven't got there yet. Maybe you never will. Some won't.
> 
> I like this statement from Patrick Buchanan about people like you.
> 
> http://buchanan.org/blog/is-a-new-gop-being-born-124893
> 
> _As in 1964 and 1980, a new Republican Party is taking shape.
> ...


From the very article you posted:




> *If Trump won and turned left*, it would inspire an insurgency like Ronald Reagan’s in 1976, when the Ford-Rockefeller-Kissinger administration moved too far toward detente.

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## phill4paul

> Yeah, yeah,...I know.
> 
> You haven't got there yet. Maybe you never will. Some won't.
> 
> I like this statement from Patrick Buchanan about people like you.
> 
> http://buchanan.org/blog/is-a-new-gop-being-born-124893
> 
> _As in 1964 and 1980, a new Republican Party is taking shape.
> ...


  No, I never will "get there." Because "there" is where I don't care to be. It's hard to "defect" when one is not a part. There will be no "changing of the guard" in the GOP as Pat predicts. Particularly if one such as yourself would criticize Amash for his Cruz support over _every other stance_ he has taken. If there is to be a "changing of the guard" then it has to be individuals like Amash and Massie. Not Trump. Not even.

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## Smitty

Give me a rest, guy.

Amash lined up with Cruz.

If Cruz wants a friend he has to buy a dog.

His own wife went for a walk on the railroad tracks because of his weirdness.

,...and Amash has done took up with him.

Like I said before. I once liked Amash very much. I thought he was the best of the liberty movement in Congress. But he's done flown the coup.

If you're still enthralled with the liberty movement, it's time to look for somebody else.

I really don't care if you do or not.

I'm on a nationalist kick these days. The liberty movement has to take a back seat until that nationalist situation is taken care of.

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## Brian4Liberty

> It took Trump to show the people that they were part of a big group if they were against illegal immigration.
> 
> If another member of the right ever gets elected, a hard stance against illegal immigration will play a big part in it.
> 
> That's been demonstrated.


Actually, it was Dave Brat who proved that by taking out Cantor. He ran as a Ron Paul style liberty-oriented candidate, with a relatively young Ron Paul supporter as his campaign manager. They first rode the waiting wave, joining with the Ingraham/Sessions wing with regard to immigration. It was a winning strategy, but apparently the only presidential candidate to learn that lesson was Trump, who immediately aligned with Sessions. Instead of another Ron Paul style candidate using a more Liberty oriented combination, we got Trump. Tragic.

We will have another victory if another Ron Paul supporter takes down a certain despicable Senator. Time will tell.

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## Smitty

> Actually, it was Dave Brat who proved that by taking out Cantor. He ran as a Ron Paul style liberty-oriented candidate, with a relatively young Ron Paul supporter as his campaign manager. They first rode the waiting wave, joining with the Ingraham/Sessions wing with regard to immigration. It was a winning strategy, but apparently the only presidential candidate to learn that lesson was Trump, who immediately aligned with Sessions. Instead of another Ron Paul style candidate using a more Liberty oriented combination, we got Trump. Tragic.
> 
> We will have another victory if another Ron Paul supporter takes down a certain despicable Senator. Time will tell.


Okay.

I just read what you write.

Sometimes it's difficult to see where you are. You don't seem to be totally adverse to the idea of Trump,..but you seem hesitant to just come out with it.

Say what you want to say. I'll read it.

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## phill4paul

> Give me a rest, guy.
> 
> Amash lined up with Cruz.
> 
> If Cruz wants a friend he has to buy a dog.
> 
> His own wife went for a walk on the railroad tracks because of his weirdness.
> 
> ,...and Amash has done took up with him.
> ...


  Amash aligned with Cruz because he felt he could "work with him", and had on some issues, after Rand dropped out. Not one of his better days but he was working with what he had. That hardly equates to "flown the coup (sic)." 
  If "Nationalism" equated with limited Federal government and individual liberty then I would be all for it. As it stands it is equated with fascism. And I'll have no part in Trumps move to cement that fact.

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## Smitty

okay.

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## angelatc

> Amash aligned with Cruz because he felt he could "work with him", and had on some issues, after Rand dropped out. Not one of his better days but he was working with what he had. That hardly equates to "flown the coup (sic)." 
>   If "Nationalism" equated with limited Federal government and individual liberty then I would be all for it. As it stands it is equated with fascism. And I'll have no part in Trumps move to cement that fact.


Not to mention that fact that if Trump manages to win, he will also be working with Cruz.  Trump is a master at putting together deals, and I'm pretty sure he deals with people he doesn't agree with.  His supporters would do well to learn such a skill.

IN any event, if you're looking for a good dose of full frontal nationalism. then Ron Paul Forums probably shouldn't be your go-to political home these days.

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## Smitty

> IN any event, if you're looking for a good dose of full frontal nationalism. then Ron Paul Forums probably shouldn't be your go-to political home these days.


Liberty through nationalism is about as good as it gets when globalism is running wild over the planet.

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## anaconda

> I didn't cause Amash to choose the wrong side of the Trump movement and align himself with Cruz.


Is Ron Paul, therefore, also on the wrong side of the Trump movement? 

Here is the text of Amash's endorsement of Cruz:

http://opinion.ijr.com/2016/02/253437-trust-ted-cruz/

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## phill4paul

> Liberty through nationalism is about as good as it gets when globalism is running wild over the planet.


  Syphilis is about as good as it gets when AIDS is running wild.

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## Smitty

> Is Ron Paul, therefore, also on the wrong side of the Trump movement?


From what I've seen, Ron Paul isn't a fan of either Trump nor Hillary.

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## anaconda

> From what I've seen, Ron Paul isn't a fan of either Trump nor Hillary.


Is he therefore on "the wrong side" of the Trump movement?"

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## anaconda

Looks like Amash is now behind Trump:

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presid...6/exclusive-4/

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## jkr



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## phill4paul

> Looks like Amash is now behind Trump:
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presid...6/exclusive-4/


  Amish Pac. Not Amash. SMDH.

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## LibertyEagle

> Looks like Amash is now behind Trump:
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presid...6/exclusive-4/


That says AMISH; not Amash.  lol

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## anaconda

What a difference one letter makes. My google search apparently tossed in results for "Amish" along with the search for "Amash" and support for Trump! I apologize for my lack of attention to detail. I even overlooked the fact that the billboards are in PA rather than MI.

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## anaconda

Do Amish even vote?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-voters-223669

Apparently the Amish don't get social security or disability:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36799768

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## anaconda

> Amish Pac. Not Amash. SMDH.


Totally sorry about that. Pretty funny actually.

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## anaconda

> That says AMISH; not Amash.  lol


Ha! Oops. My apologies.

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## MattRay

I started looking to 2020 for a possible Amash run as soon as Rand exited the race and my pipe dream of Ron Paul entering was officially ruled out so this is great news, imo. I was a bit surprised when Amash endorsed Cruz, but I'm not too bothered by it because I read his reasons and I don't think it changes Amash's positions. He's our best hope for a strong liberty campaign short of Ron Paul returning to politics, which at 80 years old, is highly unlikely.

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## cindy25

Brat or Amash would have to win statewide (Gov or Sen) to be taken seriously.  easier for Brat because VA has off year Governor, and its open.

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## angelatc

> Brat or Amash would have to win statewide (Gov or Sen) to be taken seriously.  easier for Brat because VA has off year Governor, and its open.


Agree 100%.  MI has an off year governor race too. .Snyder is term limited, but the establishment is strong here.  Bentivolio and McMillan are two national scalps, on a local level they got Courser and Gamrat out.  

Rumors say that Amash is good friends with the Lt Gov, but also that the Lt Gov will run for the seat.  So .....

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## Krugminator2

> Agree 100%.  MI has an off year governor race too. .Snyder is term limited, but the establishment is strong here.  Bentivolio and McMillan are two national scalps, on a local level they got Courser and Gamrat out.  
> 
> Rumors say that Amash is good friends with the Lt Gov, but also that the Lt Gov will run for the seat.  So .....


Amash could never win a state race. If he wants to float his name to raise his profile. He will not run and knows he could not win.

I would be very verrrrrrrrrry surprised if Calley ran against Amash for his House seat. Obviously anything can happen politics. That does not seem like a very credible rumor.

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## angelatc

> Amash could never win a state race. If he wants to float his name to raise his profile. He will not run and knows he could not win.
> 
> I would be very verrrrrrrrrry surprised if Calley ran against Amash for his House seat. Obviously anything can happen politics. That does not seem like a very credible rumor.



No no no - I meant Amash would likely have to face Calley in a GOP primary in a gubernatorial race.

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