# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Charlottesville Antifa Steamrolled By Car

## dannno

*Cernovich: 

Civil War is here
*
https://www.pscp.tv/Cernovich/1vAGRNpAXDrGl?

*
Trumps Comments on Charlotesville*

https://www.pscp.tv/Cernovich/1eaJbmegBRdGX?
















!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT:




> In this video, http://www.departmentofmemes.com/art...-baseball-bat/, it seems someone hits the driverside/rear with a flag pole before he takes of into the crowd.

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## liveandletlive

Carefully worded statement by our Dear Leader to not offend his shrinking base of losers.

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## Matt Collins

Historically the socialists and nationalists have worked together

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## RonPaulMall

Second angle definitely makes it look like an accident. Antifa probably throwing bricks. Car accelerated to get the hell out, but people ahead obscured the view of the cars down the road and he ran right in to them.

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## Raginfridus

Who's funding Antifa, anybody good looking hard into that?

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## phill4paul

All planned and coordinated. Christ, it seems everyone is feeble minded. I think it was after the Charlotte, NC riots and subsequent protests on highways that legislation was passed to allow for drivers that feared for their lives to drive over protesters. THIS was as deliberately contrived as the fact that the alt-right and anti-Fa coalitions were routed into each others paths on the formers' route to Lee/Emancipation park by law enforcement. and then when the confrontation took place it was allowed to foment to the point they cancelled the whole gig and declared the equivalent of martial law.

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## tod evans

So is that it or are they recharging for tonight?

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## navy-vet

I just heard that a Va Police chopper was shot down?

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## tod evans

> I just heard that a Va Police chopper was shot down?


I posted a link in the other thread...

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## navy-vet

> I posted a link in the other thread...


thanks Tod

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## phill4paul

> So is that it or are they recharging for tonight?


  No idea. I'd wager a "that is it" for now. Both sides will declare victory and victim status. Government will declare they acted "restrained, yet firm."

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## Anti Federalist

> All planned and coordinated. Christ, it seems everyone is feeble minded. I think it was after the Charlotte, NC riots and subsequent protests on highways that legislation was passed to allow for drivers that feared for their lives to drive over protesters. *THIS was as deliberately contrived as the fact that the alt-right and anti-Fa coalitions were routed into each others paths on the formers' route to Lee/Emancipation park by law enforcement.* and then when the confrontation took place it was allowed to foment to the point they cancelled the whole gig and declared the equivalent of martial law.





> “This has been going on for a long, long time,” he said, referring to the violent protests. “It has no place in America.” *Trump thanked law enforcement for trying to restore peace to the city*.

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## Anti Federalist

> “Above all, we must remember this truth, no matter our color, creed, religion or political party, we are all Americans first,” he said.


What's that even supposed to mean?

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## RonPaulMall

> 


In fairness, Trump was golfing all day and has no idea what happened. And _still_ he had enough sense to resist denouncing us and made a point of calling out any violence on either side.

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## specsaregood

> In fairness, Trump was golfing all day and has no idea what happened. And _still_ he had enough sense to resist denouncing us and made a point of calling out any violence on either side.


You keep saying "us" or "our side".  Who is this "us"?   Were you there or just a couch potato watching via youtube all the people on your side get attacked and run off?

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## angelatc

> In fairness, Trump was golfing all day and has no idea what happened. And _still_ he had enough sense to resist denouncing us and made a point of calling out any violence on either side.


Us?

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## phill4paul

> 


  No $#@!. 1k State troopers on overtime with body armor, National Guard on stand by, and the Charlotteville police department AND, because multi agencies are a big thing on a bust but rare in a skirmish, the Albemarle county sheriffs office. 

  They couldn't keep them separated?

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## phill4paul

> Us?


  He's got a sock puppet in his pocket.

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## oyarde

> Historically the socialists and nationalists have worked together


Those days have come and gone , our socialists and communists are not nationalists but globalists .

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## phill4paul

> Those days have come and gone , our socialists and communists are not nationalists but globalists .


  There's no denying that.

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## oyarde

> What's that even supposed to mean?


I hope it is code for CalExit , but probably not . If he really thinks all those people are really americans that is fairly naive . In fact if he pays attention he will find that half the country at least has no real interest in rustic american independence and individualism .

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## angelatc

> What's that even supposed to mean?


Settle down, ya'll.

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## bunklocoempire

> What's that even supposed to mean?


_Out of the many individuals, a herd to be driven._

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## Pauls' Revere

Anyone notice that the car used in The Dukes of Hazard was the General Lee a Dodge Charger and that this took place at a park that was named after General Lee and the car used was a Dodge Charger.

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## oyarde

> Anyone notice that the car used in The Dukes of Hazard was the General Lee a Dodge Charger and that this took place at a park that was named after General Lee and the car used was a Dodge Charger.


And he is charged with murder and from Maumee , Ohio . James Alex Fields JR according to the yahoo front page news.

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## enhanced_deficit

Instead of uniting for common goal of nationalist security, there are too many episodes of internal divisions in recent years. Just few years ago US was spreading democratic freedom, racial equality values to other countries and now these are the scenes inside America.. what gives?







If this car attack is confirmed, are ISIS terrorists tactics coming home now?


If this is not handeled well, things could get spiral out of control worse than race violence during last DGP's regime.







Un-related

*ISIS Inspired By Times Square Crash, Warns of Vehicle Attacks on NYC Tourist Hub*ISIS has claimed responsibility for a series of vehicle attacks in  Europe in recent months, including in Nice, Berlin, London and  Stockholm. A student who rammed his car into a group of people before  charging at passerby with a knife at Ohio State University last November  was also inspired by ISIS, authorities believe.

http://www.newsweek.com/isis-times-s...-attack-612484

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## phill4paul

> Instead of uniting for common goal of nationalist security, there are too many episodes of internal divisions in recent years. Just few years ago US was spreading democratic freedom, racial equality values to other country and now these are the scenes inside America.. what gives?


  WTF are you on about?

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## RJB

> Anyone notice that the car used in The Dukes of Hazard was the General Lee a Dodge Charger and that this took place at a park that was named after General Lee and the car used was a Dodge Charger.


They use the Charger as police cars in my state.

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## oyarde

> They use the Charger as police cars in my state.


They use them here too , State and county .

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## goldenequity

*Driver Who Plowed Into People In Charlottesville Identified As James Fields, Reports Say
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/12/dr...s-reports-say/*



CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA — At least three people are dead and 19 are injured in the wake of violent protests that rocked Charlottesville, Va. Saturday.

A car plowed into a crowd in the early afternoon during clashes between white supremacists, Black Lives Matter, Antifa and other groups. Shortly before 5 p.m., a police helicopter went down in nearby Ivy, Va., killing two.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/12/at...ests-continue/

About an hour after the gathering at the park dispersed, reports came in that a vehicle had plowed through a group of people in a busy section of downtown Charlottesville.

*Later in the evening, police said that the driver was in custody, where he is likely to face vehicular homicide charges.*

Police remained in a high state of alert into the evening.

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## ThePaleoLibertarian

The alt-right continues to be the most idiotic, poorly run, self-sabotaging bunch of morons I've ever seen. Words cannot express how much my opinion of this "movement" has soured since the beginning of the year. My opinions on race and immigration are unchanged and I continue to move rightward, but the alt-right is a $#@!ing dumpster fire that no thinking person should take seriously.

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## timosman

> The alt-right continues to be the most idiotic, poorly run, self-sabotaging bunch of morons I've ever seen. Words cannot express how much my opinion of this "movement" has soured since the beginning of the year. My opinions on race and immigration are unchanged and I continue to move rightward, but the alt-right is a $#@!ing dumpster fire that no thinking person should take seriously.


Nobody should be taking them seriously. They are the fifth column. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

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## angelatc

> And he is charged with murder and from Maumee , Ohio . James Alex Fields JR according to the yahoo front page news.


Earlier a Hill report said the driver was being threatened and was attempting to flee but that story has vanished in a sea of "OmG they're nazis!"

A guy on Facebook went to great lengths to explain how the Alt Right was only marching to trigger AntiFa so it was the Alt Right's fault that AntiFa was freaking loony.  And he believes that .

Here's a picture:

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## angelatc



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## timosman

> That's why its in quotes right after the word unruly, because its become a label for immediately shutting down anybody with marginal opinions. Is there an old boys club I need to pay my dues, before I'm given the chance to explain myself?


A victim card? Well played sir, well played.

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## juleswin

> Now you know how we felt when you bastards invaded us on their impetus and tried to take over the term 'libertarian'.
> 
> Cry us a river.  'Waaah!  They did to us what they talked us into doing to you!  Waaaah!'  Formerly useful $#@!ing idiots.


Please don't indulge him in his fantasies of once well behaving alt right, the Fed didn't take over anything, they have been acting this way since the movement went from thinktank to the streets. The same Richard Spencer who most people consider the intellectual founder is still leading the movement. He would have said something the way Ron Paul spoke out after the teocons took over the tea party if the feds really took over the alt right.

They did not say anything, if anything, Richard Spencer himself has been the top of the list of bad behaving alt right leaders. It is one thing to argue that the feds started the alt right but please don't tell me they took over anything cos I am not buying it.

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## Raginfridus

> Hell, son, you could have made your point clear before you ever clicked '*Post Quick Reply*'!  Nobody was stopping you.


Bull$#@!, you don't need to force me from posting, you only need to heckle from your glorified perch, when my posts don't pass under the bar of certitude, for whatever reason you choose. Instead of knee-jerk accusations, you're free to ask me what I mean if you think I'm deliberately being obtuse, but sense you need to appear all-knowing and dominant, you'd rather choose to believe I'm stupid or showing off. Son.

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## timosman

> Bull$#@!, you don't need to force me from posting, you only need to heckle from your glorified perch, when my posts don't pass under the bar of certitude, for whatever reason you choose. Instead of knee-jerk accusations, you're free to ask me what I mean if you think I'm deliberately being obtuse, but sense you need to appear all-knowing and dominant, you'd rather choose to believe I'm stupid or showing off. Son.


Can someone check why this bot is spewing nonsense? The new algo was supposed to make things better but somehow we ended up with crap like that.

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## acptulsa

This is the second thread on this topic he has tried to make all about him.  I haven't decided yet if he's trying to derail discussions on this particular event, or just attention whoring.

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## Raginfridus

> A victim card? Well played sir, well played.


Jesus, never mind the three good ol boys making up the bulk of active users' posts, who can't stoop to ask the new kid what he meant, by only a handful of sentences out of the mere 70 posts he's made, another thinks he smells blood and takes a passing swipe. Well played big man.

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## timosman

> Jesus, never mind the three good ol boys making up the bulk of active users' posts, who can't stoop to ask the new kid what he meant, by only a handful of sentences out of the mere 70 posts he's made, another thinks he smells blood and takes a passing swipe. Well played big man.

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## Schifference

> Jesus, never mind the three good ol boys making up the bulk of active users' posts, who can't stoop to ask the new kid what he meant, by only a handful of sentences out of the mere 70 posts he's made, another thinks he smells blood and takes a passing swipe. Well played big man.


If you wrote so people understood, there would be no need for you to explain.

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## acptulsa

> Yeah, not the route I would have suggested.   But the lesson still stands.  If you are going to go out there, the law and media is against you despite any "permits" or being peaceful.  You will get beaten and run off unless you fight fire with fire.    It is up to them to decide if it is worth it.


Yeah, but with the nature of the Propaganda Machine, it seldom helps the cause.  If the Ohioan had left his Dodge in the garage and hopped a Greyhound, the media would have had a much harder time making the people who started all the violence yesterday look like the victims.

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## Schifference

> Yeah, but with the nature of the Propaganda Machine, it seldom helps the cause.  If the Ohioan had left his Dodge in the garage and hopped a Greyhound, the media would have had a much harder time making the people who started all the violence yesterday look like the victims.


Driving that car didn't look like a coordinated group effort.

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## acptulsa

> Driving that car didn't look like a coordinated group effort.


It certainly was not.  But I didn't see any hesitation on the part if any if the networks this morning--_least_ of all 'fair and balanced' Fox--to lump the guy in with the rest of the alt righties.

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## H. E. Panqui

> Now you know how we felt when you bastards invaded us on their impetus and tried to take over the term 'libertarian'.
> 
> Cry us a river.  'Waaah!  They did to us what they talked us into doing to you!  Waaaah!'  Formerly useful $#@!ing idiots.


...love it...a line-drive home run!

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## specsaregood

> Yeah, but with the nature of the Propaganda Machine, it seldom helps the cause.  If the Ohioan had left his Dodge in the garage and hopped a Greyhound, the media would have had a much harder time making the people who started all the violence yesterday look like the victims.


I don't think it would have made a bit of difference.

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## nikcers

> It certainly was not.  But I didn't see any hesitation on the part if any if the networks this morning--_least_ of all 'fair and balanced' Fox--to lump the guy in with the rest of the alt righties.


That's because they want to inspire more political activism of this nature. This is what I call activism theater, so they can crack down on their targets.

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## Schifference

Soon the people will be begging the Federal Government to limit speech so these types of things don't happen.

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## angelatc

> Good.
> 
> There is a fight coming.
> 
> There is dissolution coming.
> 
> Both have been sorely needed for decades now.


Yeah.  And while I don't consider myself a part of either of these movements I have already chosen a side.

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## acptulsa

> Yeah.  And while I don't consider myself a part of either of these movements I have already chosen a side.


Well, I generally err on the side of fighting for someone's right to say something.  But if war really is coming between Stormfront and Antifa, I'm less likely to pick a side and more likely to pick a sideline.

Educating people on how a libertarian society could have (and used to) allow these freaks peaceful coexistence would be a useful thing to sell in the grandstands.

'Peaceful coexistence!  Get your peace and prosperity heah!  Got Cracker Jacks too!'

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## tod evans

> Well, I generally err on the side of fighting for someone's right to say something.  But if war really is coming between Storm front and Antifa, I'm less likely to pick a side and more likely to pick a sideline.
> 
> Educating people on how a libertarian society could have (and used to) allow these freaks peaceful coexistence would be a useful thing to sell in the grandstands.
> 
> 'Peaceful coexistence!  Get your peace and prosperity heah!  Got Cracker Jacks too!'


If you're not in a city there's nothing to concern yourself over except the legislative/legal outcome...

Socially and physically the country people will notice no difference in their day to day lives except for what the plastic box spews...

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## acptulsa

> That's because they want to inspire more political activism of this nature. This is what I call activism theater, so they can crack down on their targets.


Well, I think specs has a good point when he says come prepared to fight and don't let the law get in your way.  But MLK also had a point--winning the physical fight often loses you the hearts and minds you're after.

Just a little civil disobedience might have been just the ticket.  Like deviating from the route the cops tell you to take through the gauntlet and entering the park through an Antifa-free gate--or several of them.  You lose the parade, but get to your destination in one piece.

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## nikcers

> Well, I think specs has a good point when he says come prepared to fight and don't let the law get in your way..


By all means arm yourselves, not just physically but mentally. Mob mentality brings out the worst in everybody though, especially when people are all hot and hungry and bothered.

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## Madison320

> 'going to'?
> 
> You aren't watching the Sunday morning blather shows.  They're running with this like they've been planning this for days.
> 
> Fox couldn't even be bothered to point out that no reasonable person can say Antifa's $#@! doesn't stink, either.  _Bleats the Press_ allowed a guy to say that, but as soon as he did they cut to commercial and dropped the subject


They've been waiting for a guy like this for years. I remember they thought George Zimmerman was the guy, then he turned out to be part latino.

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## tod evans

*Heather Heyer, Charlottesville victim, 32, was Virginia paralegal*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/13...al-report.html

The woman who died during weekend protests in Charlottesville, Va., has been identified as Heather Heyer, a paralegal. 

A Dodge Challenger rammed into a group of protesters as tension boiled over at a white supremacist rally on Saturday. Heyer, 32, was killed as she crossed the street.

Heyer was taken to UVA Hospital, where she was declared dead, according to a press release from the city of Charlottesville. 

She was struck down by a vehicle while exercising her peaceful First Amendment right to speech, a statement said. This senseless act of violence rips a hole in our collective hearts.

White nationalists descended on the city to take America back by rallying against plans to remove a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee.

Hundreds came to protest against the racism. The New York Daily News reported that it was not clear whether Heyer was with the demonstrators counter-protesting. 

Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe tweeted that Heyer died standing up against hate & bigotry.

Heyers cover photo on Facebook from Nov. 19, 2016, says, If youre not outraged, youre not paying attention.

Heyer was a paralegal with the Miller Law Group, according to the newspaper. 

For over four years Heather has played an essential role in our bankruptcy department and office as a whole, the law group says online. It says that Heyer was from Ruckersville, Va., but living in Charlottesville. 


She died doing what was right. My heart is broken, but I am forever proud of her, Felicia Correa, Heyers childhood pal who spoke on behalf of the victims mother, told the Daily News.

Heyer graduated from William Monroe High School in Stanardsville, Va., in 2003, USA Today reported. 


She always stands up for what she believes in and we had spoken about mixed race couples and families, her friend Lauren Moon told the news outlet. 

The driver, James Alex Fields Jr., a 20-year-old who recently moved to Ohio from where he grew up in Kentucky, was charged with second-degree murder and other counts.

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## Dr.3D

Is Antifa just another name for the Black Lives Matter group?

The reason I ask is because I saw mostly, shop printed, "Black Lives Matter" signs in that group.

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## acptulsa

Not officially related, but I'm sure, shall we say, the membership overlaps.  The power and money behind them undoubtedly does, too.

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## enhanced_deficit

> The *alt-right* continues to be the  most idiotic, poorly run, self-sabotaging bunch of morons I've ever  seen. Words cannot express how much my opinion of this "movement" has  soured since the beginning of the year.






> The media is going to have fun with this:
> 
> *Washington Post*
> 
> "Trump lit the torches of white supremacy in Charlottesville. We must extinguish them."


EM.

Not sure what exactly constitutes "alt right" as referred to in  MSM headlines but would agree with above criticism if applied to the  subset of "Right" (or "Left" or "Middle" for that matter)  that  champions  collectivist,racist instigation of violence.

That  said,  recet history shows that violent, racist alt-Neocons supported by  likesof WaPo have caused much more damage to humanity than current isolationst  nationalist groups being labelled by them as "alt-Right" ever could.   Racially motivated horrible revenge attack on people of Iraq, bloody  spreading of freedom/racial equality values in Syria were  just couple of the many recent examples of how deeply racist,  collectivist WaPo supported political slave masters of likes of DGP have been in  practice. They got no moral authority to be judge of racially motivated violence.

2003: Washington Post ran 27 editorials in favor of Iraq invasion

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## acptulsa

> They got no moral authority to be judge of racially motivated violence.


They've got no right to identify libertarians, either.  And they certainly have no right to rank us, especially since we're loathe to rank ourselves.  But seems like I heard all about that GOP clown Augustus Invictus being the 'highest-ranking libertarian' in some damned place yesterday.

Clearly they ask not what their rights are.  They only ask what their job is.

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## enhanced_deficit

> They've got no right to identify libertarians, either.


Lately they have been too disgraced, exposed as fakenews but it was only few years ago in 2007-08  when  WaPo/NYT neocons were trying to defame libertarian anti-war groups as supporters of Nazis.




Un-related

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## tod evans

Here's some folks who were there, they sound quite sane....





[edit]

 12 min in, copsuckin' going on...

[edit again]

In spite of the Hoo-Rah bull$#@! these guys seem to have their hearts in the right place...

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## angelatc

> “She always stands up for what she believes in and we had spoken about mixed race couples and families,” her friend Lauren Moon told the news outlet.


IS this circa 1972?

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## Anti Federalist

> The only thing that can be learned by the "right" in this is if you planning on going somewhere that the "left" might protest and attack you, come prepared to fight back and don't let the law get in your way.  Next time bring gas masks, knives, guns, swords whatever.  Because clearly the police have no interest in keeping the peace or protecting the people being attacked.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to specsaregood again.

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## phill4paul

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to specsaregood again.


  I noticed no one attacked the militia groups that went armed.

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## specsaregood

> I noticed no one attacked the militia groups that went armed.


yup and the brief bit I saw had them protecting people that were getting medical treatment after being attacked.

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## euphemia

The alt-right are definitely not libertarians.  Libertarians believe that all people are equal under the law, as the Constitution says.  Individuals may certainly discriminate, but they do so to their own seclusion, not the seclusion of others.  

Given the circumstance, they may hold whatever demonstrations they choose, but in the current climate should consider renting space and limiting admittance.  That's the only way to limit the audience.

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## phill4paul

> yup and the brief bit I saw had them protecting people that were getting medical treatment after being attacked.


   I think he is exaggerating here, but isn't it simply amazing that there were so many weapons there yet NO shots were fired....




> Governor McAuliffe, in an impromptu interview before addressing two church congregations on Sunday morning, said the police estimated that 80 percent of those at the white nationalists’ rally and counterprotests — including members of self-styled militias in camouflage gear — were armed, “yet not a shot was fired.”


 


> Governor McAuliffe also defended the police response, saying, “It’s easy to criticize, but I can tell you this, 80 percent of the people here had semiautomatic weapons.
> 
> “You saw the militia walking down the street, you would have thought they were an army,” he added. “I was just talking to the State Police upstairs; they had better equipment than our State Police had,” he said, referring to the militia members. “And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”


 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/u...ionalists.html

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## acptulsa

> I think he is exaggerating here, but isn't it simply amazing that there were so many weapons there yet NO shots were fired....
> 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/u...ionalists.html


Even more amazing that this part of his public announcement landed on the cutting room floor of every broadcast news network.

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## phill4paul

> Even more amazing that this part of his public announcement landed on the cutting room floor of every broadcast news network.


  Ain't it the truth. News like this would definitely spoil gun grabbers narrative.

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## TheCount

> IS this circa 1972?


Look around alt-right blogs and you'll find that that some of them have strong feelings about mixed race relationships.  "White genocide" and all that.

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## specsaregood

> Look around alt-right blogs and you'll find that that some of them have strong feelings about mixed race relationships.  "White genocide" and all that.


look around the left blogs and twitter and you'll find some of them have strong feelings about breeding away the white race.  there are $#@!s everywhere.

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## enhanced_deficit

Height of hypocrisy and  political opportunism... SWC Hillary and disgraced dronegangsta are calling for "introspection":


Obama, Clinton call for introspection in wake of Charlottesville clashes
Politico 8h ago

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## Swordsmyth

> Height of hypocrisy and  political opportunism... SWC Hillary and disgraced dronegangsta are calling for "introspection":
> 
> 
> Obama, Clinton call for introspection in wake of Charlottesville clashes
> Politico 8h ago


The left could do with some introspection.

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## acptulsa

> "introspection":


Of course they're going to engage in introspection.  How can they figure out how best to capitalize on the martyrdom of that poor, unfortunate victim of police incompetence and deliberate malfeasance if they don't introspect upon it?

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## Original_Intent

> What's that even supposed to mean?


Hmm I think he is saying the fake lines you are living within is the most important thing. Much more important than your beliefs about God, or your family ties, etc.

Maybe he was demagogue-ing?

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## Danke

> A victim card? Well played sir, well played.





> look around the left blogs and twitter and you'll find some of them have strong feelings about breeding away the white race.  there are $#@!s everywhere.



Here's a flyer that was being handed out and thrown around at the ANTIFA riot in Charlottesville.

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## TheCount

> Here's a flyer that was being handed out and thrown around at the ANTIFA riot in Charlottesville.



Seems legit.

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## Matt Collins

The Mayor of the town was trying to provoke the protesters in his effort to undermine Trump.

He blocked off their access to the protesting site and had the LEOs push them into the anti-protester crowd almost certainly ensuring violence. 

Both groups are idiots, but again, this even was a political setup.

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## merkelstan

"ACLU  confirms that police were given stand-down order. This invited the  violence the city used to shut down a court-permitted protest." https://t.co/FQUhcYaIIm
— Robert Barnes (@Barnes_Law) August 12, 2017
Don  Gathers, deacon at First Baptist Church in Charlottesville, says the   police response was "reprehensible" and an "embarrassment."


Driver appears to have been attacked by mob with baseball bats before hitting the gas.


http://www.departmentofmeme...


2nd Video: https://www.youtube.com/wat...



NO police anywhere...

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## Swordsmyth

> Seems legit.


Actually it does.

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## TheCount

> Actually it does.


To you?  I have no doubt.

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## angelatc

> Well, I generally err on the side of fighting for someone's right to say something.  But if war really is coming between Stormfront and Antifa, I'm less likely to pick a side and more likely to pick a sideline.


That's exactly what they've done here.

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## phill4paul

> "ACLU  confirms that police were given stand-down order. This invited the  violence the city used to shut down a court-permitted protest." https://t.co/FQUhcYaIIm
> — Robert Barnes (@Barnes_Law) August 12, 2017
> Don  Gathers, deacon at First Baptist Church in Charlottesville, says the   police response was "reprehensible" and an "embarrassment."
> 
> 
> Driver appears to have been attacked by mob with baseball bats before hitting the gas.
> 
> 
> http://www.departmentofmeme...
> ...


  Sure looks like he only takes off after his car is hit with a bat to me.

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## tod evans

> Sure looks like he only takes off after his car is hit with a bat to me.


They've already laid the groundwork for a hate-crime conviction..

I'll bet a cyber nickle that they don't back down.

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## John F Kennedy III



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## mrsat_98

http://https://charlotte.craigslist....253305119.html

----------


## acptulsa

> http://https://charlotte.craigslist....253305119.html


Link could do with a bit of cleaning up...

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/tfr...253305119.html

If that really was for yesterday's intramurals, you'd think it'd be down by now.

You'd also think it would be on the Charlotteville, VA Craigslist, not the Charlotte, NC site.

----------


## angelatc

> Look around alt-right blogs and you'll find that that some of them have strong feelings about mixed race relationships.  "White genocide" and all that.


Not buying it.  Not that the white supremacists don't hate mixed marriages, but that her friend and she discussed them in the context that was implied.

"We talked about mixed marriages, and Ah am sure she approved of them!"

----------


## acptulsa

> Not buying it.  Not that the white supremacists don't hate mixed marriages, but that her friend and she discussed them in the context that was implied.
> 
> "We talked about mixed marriages, and Ah am sure she approved of them!"


Yeah, that's--different.  And that was literally the only indication I saw that she was on one side or the other.  But you're right--who but a stormfronter even talks specifically about mixed marriages?

They sure made it _smell_ like she was one of the stormfronters, but they'd rather have a liberal martyr.

They're headlining more violence today, but only talking about yesterday.  Does anyone know what happened today?  Spitballs at twenty paces?

----------


## TheCount

> Not buying it.  Not that the white supremacists don't hate mixed marriages, but that her friend and she discussed them in the context that was implied.
> 
> "We talked about mixed marriages, and Ah am sure she approved of them!"


Oh, I misunderstood.  I thought that you were all "is this 1972" that people would be against it.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> The left could do with some introspection.


Who's saying this didn't happen to draw attention away from Awan-Wassrman-Rich fiascos ?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Who's saying this didn't happen to draw attention away from Awan-Wassrman-Rich fiascos ?


Not me, I only said that since they are insane the left should do some long and hard introspection, unfortunately I doubt they will or that they would come to the right conclusions if they did.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

my apology. . . misread your post

----------


## angelatc

> Sure looks like he only takes off after his car is hit with a bat to me.


But isn't that after he plowed into them?  

I'll tell you who's lucky - that's the guy who didn't get crushed between the two cars.

----------


## phill4paul

> But isn't that after he plowed into them?  
> 
> I'll tell you who's lucky - that's the guy who didn't get crushed between the two cars.


  In this video, http://www.departmentofmemes.com/art...-baseball-bat/, it seems someone hits the driverside/rear with a flag pole before he takes of into the crowd.

----------


## angelatc

> In this video, http://www.departmentofmemes.com/art...-baseball-bat/, it seems someone hits the driverside/rear with a flag pole before he takes of into the crowd.


OK - early reports mentioned that but those vanished into the outragededness-osphere.   All we can do is let the courts hash it out.  

Can you imagine the riots if he walks?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> OK - early reports mentioned that but those vanished into the outragededness-osphere.   All we can do is let the courts hash it out.  
> 
> Can you imagine the riots if he walks?


If he walks he will have to go into hiding.

----------


## angelatc

> If he walks he will have to go into hiding.


They'll burn the city down.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> OK - early reports mentioned that but those vanished into the *outragededness-osphere*.   All we can do is let the courts hash it out.  
> 
> Can you imagine the riots if he walks?


That made me chuckle.

Yah, well, let 'em.

----------


## Schifference

The media sure is crucifying him. Went to sleep last night to some new Fox News program at midnight. They were calling him a terrorist and upset that Trump did not call him what he is a racial terrorist.

Wouldn't it be something if Trump calls out the news for finding the guy guilty, complaining that he hasn't called him a terrorist, and explaining that he has seen the video of the car taking off only after being hit with a bat. Then making a statement that he will reserve judgement until all the facts come out.

----------


## merkelstan



----------


## jmdrake

> 


Nice backpack!  Seriously anyone who has a negative gut reaction to the black panthers probably doesn't understand the history of the black panthers.  Of course that looks more like the cartoon character to me.  



Then again, a vice mayor walking around in a t-shirt and an "Iron Man" backpack might raise eyebrows too as that seems more collegiate than professional.  But I don't know the context of the photo.

----------


## jmdrake

> In this video, http://www.departmentofmemes.com/art...-baseball-bat/, it seems someone hits the driverside/rear with a flag pole before he takes of into the crowd.


Thanks for the video.  I  got the opposite impression from it.  The crowd is ahead of him.  Behind him the sidewalk is sparsely populated.  It's not until he is *right on the freaking crowd* until someone attacks him.  Well duh!  Why are you driving your car directly into a crowd of people in the first place?  That said, anything is possible.

Edit: Okay.  I see the argument being made.  I guess this guy thought the crowd was going to part and let him go through and when it didn't he decided he didn't want to be Reginald Denny?  Oh, and he's active duty military.  This probably explains why he was charged with 2nd degree murder and not first degree.  I heard on Fox News last night that they were claiming there were "white supremacists" along the road telling him which way to turn and urging him on.  That seems to be bullsh*t.

----------


## phill4paul

> Thanks for the video.  I  got the opposite impression from it.  The crowd is ahead of him.  Behind him the sidewalk is sparsely populated.  It's not until he is *right on the freaking crowd* until someone attacks him.  Well duh!  Why are you driving your car directly into a crowd of people in the first place?  That said, anything is possible.
> 
> Edit: Okay.  I see the argument being made.  I guess this guy thought the crowd was going to part and let him go through and when it didn't he decided he didn't want to be Reginald Denny?  Oh, and he's active duty military.  This probably explains why he was charged with 2nd degree murder and not first degree.  I heard on Fox News last night that they were claiming there were "white supremacists" along the road telling him which way to turn and urging him on.  That seems to be bullsh*t.


  He's not active duty from what I understand he only served two months. I think he was medically discharged because of some meds he had to take. Again this is just something I read in passing.

----------


## jmdrake

> He's not active duty from what I understand he only served two months. I think he was medically discharged because of some meds he had to take. Again this is just something I read in passing.


Pysch meds?  If so he's walking.

----------


## phill4paul

> Pysch meds?  If so he's walking.


  Yeah, psych meds. Again this was just something I read in passing. Can't remember where.

----------


## merkelstan

> Nice backpack!  Seriously anyone who has a negative gut reaction to the black panthers probably doesn't understand the history of the black panthers.


Let's see, the FBI page on them got SCRUBBED....

But from the bit i can see cached, they are a racist group that organized violence.  Hmm maybe like the Charlottesville "anti-racists"...

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

Strangeness in Va

Why Brennan Gilmore ( official "spokesman" ) State Dept info scrubbed yesterday ?

Also he was Va governor right hand man ?

Chopper crash seems too convenient, no ?

----------


## jmdrake

> Let's see, the FBI page on them got SCRUBBED....
> 
> But from the bit i can see cached, they are a racist group that organized violence.  Hmm maybe like the Charlottesville "anti-racists"...


Are you talking about the New Black Panthers?  They are racists.  The original Black Panthers are not.  In fact you need to watch the recent PBS documentary about them.  One of the leaders, Fred Hampton, met with the 1960s equivalent of the Tea Party, which was a mostly southern white group known as "The Young Patriots."  In the video clip a young white gentleman with a southern twang introduces Fred.  Then Fred goes on to say "We've got a lot in common.  The police beat up on you just like they beat up on us.  You're poor and exploited just like we are.  We should come together."  It's not too long after that until the FBI politically assassinated Fred Hampton.  So I don't give a f*ck about what the FBI page and I'm not sure why you seem to.

----------


## angelatc

> Nice backpack!  Seriously anyone who has a negative gut reaction to the black panthers probably doesn't understand the history of the black panthers.





> The Black Panther Party or the BPP (originally the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense) was a revolutionary black nationalist and socialist organization founded by Bobby Seale and Huey Newton in October 1966




They're racist socialists.

And if I were on a jury the backpack would give credibility to the theory that the mayor intentionally orchestrated this event to some extent.

----------


## jmdrake

> They're racist socialists.
> 
> And if I were on a jury the backpack would give credibility to the theory that the mayor intentionally orchestrated this event to some extent.


If all you know about the Black Panthers is what you read on Wikipedia then you are woefully misinformed.  Again, a racist black group would not meet with a group of whites known as "the young patriots" to talk about how they had common ground from police brutality and oppression.  And as for the backpack, you understand that's the comic book character right?  Well..maybe you don't.  But it's the comic book character.  I hope that people who mistake comic book characters for reality are struck from the jury pool.

----------


## dannno

> Thanks for the video.  I  got the opposite impression from it.  The crowd is ahead of him.  Behind him the sidewalk is sparsely populated.  It's not until he is *right on the freaking crowd* until someone attacks him.  Well duh!  Why are you driving your car directly into a crowd of people in the first place?  That said, anything is possible.
> 
> Edit: Okay.  I see the argument being made.  I guess this guy thought the crowd was going to part and let him go through and when it didn't he decided he didn't want to be Reginald Denny?  Oh, and he's active duty military.  This probably explains why he was charged with 2nd degree murder and not first degree.  I heard on Fox News last night that they were claiming there were "white supremacists" along the road telling him which way to turn and urging him on.  That seems to be bullsh*t.


Haven't you been paying attention to Phil's posts??

The alt-right protest was broken up by police and they were pushed into the area where Antifa was protesting in the streets - this guy had to drive his car through the crowded streets, just like the people ahead of him.. I'm guessing he DID NOT want to be there in the crowd. I'm guessing they were all yelling "white supremist" at him and threatening him, then suddenly he hears a loud "BANG!!" on his car and he thought he was going to be attacked by the entire crowd. I'm sure tensions were extremely high. 

Again, I am not saying what happened for certain, but I had a feeling that is what happened from the beginning. This guy was scared $#@!less.

----------


## jmdrake

> Haven't you been paying attention to Phil's posts??


Did you not read my entire post that you quoted? 

_Edit: Okay. I see the argument being made. I guess this guy thought the crowd was going to part and let him go through and when it didn't he decided he didn't want to be Reginald Denny? Oh, and he's active duty military. This probably explains why he was charged with 2nd degree murder and not first degree. I heard on Fox News last night that they were claiming there were "white supremacists" along the road telling him which way to turn and urging him on. That seems to be bullsh*t._




> The alt-right protest was broken up by police and they were pushed into the area where Antifa was protesting in the streets - this guy had to drive his car through the crowded streets, just like the people ahead of him.. I'm guessing he DID NOT want to be there in the crowd. I'm guessing they were all yelling "white supremist" at him and threatening him, then suddenly he hears a loud "BANG!!" on his car and he thought he was going to be attacked by the entire crowd. I'm sure tensions were extremely high.


Just judging by the video the street that he was on was not crowded until the end of it where things got out of hand.  Rather than trying to press through, the smart thing to do would have been to stop further back and wait for the crowd to disperse or back up and try to go another way.  Of course not being smart does not equal first degree murder.  And again, we're just going from a very short clip that doesn't show much.  Also there are reports that he was on psych meds which totally changes everything.

----------


## donnay



----------


## donnay



----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

Same as it ever was. . . who controls the narrative ?

who benefits from this ?

This seems another coordinated /manufactured event to keep Americans from seeing clearly to unite against the tyranny perpetrated against them.

----------


## tod evans

> Same as it ever was. . . who controls the narrative ?
> 
> who benefits from this ?
> 
> This seems another coordinated /manufactured event to keep Americans from seeing clearly to unite against the tyranny perpetrated against them.


But, but........Raysis.

----------


## donnay



----------


## angelatc

> But, but........Raysis.


Make no mistake - the rally organizer is a White Supremacist.   This exemplifies the reason that openly affiliating with offensive groups even when there's common ground makes for disastrous PR.  Logic loses to emotion at every turn.

----------


## specsaregood

> Make no mistake - the rally organizer is a White Supremacist.   This exemplifies the reason that openly affiliating with offensive groups even when there's common ground makes for disastrous PR.  Logic loses to emotion at every turn.


He thinks that white people should have dominion over other races or special privileges?  Have a citation of that?

----------


## donnay

> Make no mistake - the rally organizer is a White Supremacist.   This exemplifies the reason that openly affiliating with offensive groups even when there's common ground makes for disastrous PR.  Logic loses to emotion at every turn.


Because the Southern Poverty Law Center told you so.

----------


## angelatc

I know a lot of you will find this is interesting:  up until 2015 or so, Jason Kessler was involved in Occupy and supported President Obama.  

Somebody who archives better than I do should screen cap that before it disappears.

----------


## donnay



----------


## donnay

> I know a lot of you will find this is interesting:  up until 2015 or so, Jason Kessler was involved in Occupy and supported President Obama.  
> 
> Somebody who archives better than I do should screen cap that before it disappears.


Just as I thought the SPLC talking points.

ETA:

This is the kind of crap SPLC spews, but I am sure most people know this.




> Paul, the former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate, is the keynote speaker of the weeklong conference slated for Sept. 8-13 in Niagara Falls, Ontario. A physician before entering politics, Paul got into considerable hot water in 2008 when The New Republic published “Angry White Man,” an article about the contents of newsletters he published. What the newsletters revealed, the magazine reported, “are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews and gays.” Paul denied writing the newsletters that bore his name.


https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...tic-conference

----------


## RJB

I would bet that if the driver kept his mouth shut to the police and only says, "I feared for my life," he stands a good chance of getting acquitted.

----------


## Madison320

> "ACLU  confirms that police were given stand-down order. This invited the  violence the city used to shut down a court-permitted protest." https://t.co/FQUhcYaIIm
>  Robert Barnes (@Barnes_Law) August 12, 2017
> Don  Gathers, deacon at First Baptist Church in Charlottesville, says the   police response was "reprehensible" and an "embarrassment."
> 
> 
> Driver appears to have been attacked by mob with baseball bats before hitting the gas.
> 
> 
> http://www.departmentofmeme...
> ...


Wow, the news has really suppressed that "minor" little detail. I hadn't heard about it until I read your post. No mention of the bats in Wikipedia either.

----------


## Madison320

> I would bet that if the driver kept his mouth shut to the police and only says, "I feared for my life," he stands a good chance of getting acquitted.


It occurred to me that the guys with bats were on the car really FAST. It makes more sense that they had already started beating the car before the car hit the protestors. If the protestors were just standing around and all of a sudden, out of nowhere a car rammed them, wouldn't it take a few seconds to process what happened before you decided to beat the car with bats?

----------


## specsaregood

> It occurred to me that the guys with bats were on the car really FAST. It makes more sense that they had already started beating the car before the car hit the protestors. If the protestors were just standing around and all of a sudden, out of nowhere a car rammed them, wouldn't it take a few seconds to process what happened before you decided to beat the car with bats?


there is one video from the rear that makes it definitive that the car was hit by a bat before the acceleration.

----------


## Madison320

> there is one video from the rear that makes it definitive that the car was hit by a bat before the acceleration.


Yeah, I think I saw that one, although I couldn't tell exactly what the guy was swinging or if it connected. But it fits with the other video that show the guys running after the car and smashing the back windshield.

----------


## RonPaulMall

He's actually just driving down the street at a pretty reasonable rate of speed surrounded by a violent and dangerous crowd and it isn't until the car is attacked with a bat that he starts accelerating. Crowd in front of him is completely obscuring the cars he is about to crash in to. This is complete and utter vindication for the driver and MSM has been caught red handed trying to invent an "act of terrorism". This is what total narrative collapse looks like:

----------


## Danke

> Voluntary association for everyone? Or just certain groups? What about Black Lives Matter? Hmmmm. I call BS.
> 
> Not that I should have to state this on a Ron Paul website but obviously all discrimination laws are wrong.


I'm not sure why they think he is a "white nationalist" could just be one of the majority participants that were neither a nationalist nor supremacist.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> Lots of interesting stuff being dug up by the tinfoil crews on other sites that indicate he is a patsy.


Some interesting bits about Brennan Gilmore also. . . guy that has seemingly been interviewed by every who's who of the MSM

----------


## angelatc

> I would bet that if the driver kept his mouth shut to the police and only says, "I feared for my life," he stands a good chance of getting acquitted.


Watching the video ... he never hit his brakes.  He slammed into the car without even trying to stop.

----------


## Danke

> Watching the video ... he never hit his brakes.  He slammed into the car without even trying to stop.


Probably didn't see the car with all the people in front of him.

----------


## dannno

> Watching the video ... he never hit his brakes.  He slammed into the car without even trying to stop.


That was after they started attacking his car.

----------


## donnay



----------


## Madison320

> Watching the video ... he never hit his brakes.  He slammed into the car without even trying to stop.


Maybe he was panicking because he thought he was about to die? Look how many guys with bats came running up after his car crashed. I think it's highly probable that all of them were beating on his car *before* he accelerated. It makes no sense that they just leapt into action in response to the car hitting pedestrians. Nobody can react that fast. Do you see what I mean?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> That was after they started attacking his car.


Someone hitting your car with a bat does not justify you running over other people.

----------


## RonPaulMall

> Watching the video ... he never hit his brakes.  He slammed into the car without even trying to stop.


From the other view you can clearly see the cars were completely obscured by the mob. He sped up to get away from the attackers and never saw the cars until it was too late.

----------


## phill4paul

> Someone hitting your car with a bat does not justify you running over other people.


   We've all seen what happened to Reginald Denny. I would think a case could and will be made if one "fears for their life."

----------


## dannno

> Someone hitting your car with a bat does not justify you running over other people.


In a vacuum? Sure. But he wasn't in a vacuum. There were all sorts of things going on around him that would make him fear for his life.

Let's be real here. We saw the videos, we saw the livestream of Antifa that morning. 

This is what my friend on the left just said when we were arguing about what happened, "The alt right needs to be and will be smashed. We've beaten those nazis in WW2 we will do it again." 

It didn't matter what facts I told him, he thinks the alt-right are nazi terrorists and it is ok to be violent with them. This is what CNN does to your brain. 

Then you saw the guy in the article Tod Evans posted in Seattle of the guy saying that the cops shouldn't be protecting the nazis and they should be allowed to go beat them up. This is how a lot of people feel, but it's not just the Richard Spencer nazi saluters, they are tying it to anybody who supports Trump. 

These are deranged people. Based on everything else I saw, they were no doubt yelling at him and threatening him for being alt-right and that probably wasn't the first blow his car received.. but that guy was swinging for the fences when he hit his car, his pulse was already up high from being screamed at, he was surrounded by Antifa, he probably already was in fear for his life before that final blow from the baseball bat. 

I'm not claiming to know what happened for certain, but we do know that there was at minimum a violent blow to his car that happened before he accelerated into the crowd, we also know he was dealing with a violent group of people who were looking to fight "nazis" and they were probably yelling at him, threatening him and hitting his car before that as well. 

I think that MOST people in his situation would have reacted similarly. Whether that is what someone SHOULD do, I can't say, I don't know what would have happened if he just put his car into park and let them do what they were going to do, they could have potentially killed him. 

So I don't have a hard time believing at all that he was in fear for his life, it seems that is what triggered the events. 

By law, I think he may actually be innocent due to the incident in Alexandria, VA a few months ago.

----------


## phill4paul

> We've all seen what happened to Reginald Denny. I would think a case could and will be made if one "fears for their life."


http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/09...-your-vehicle/

----------


## Schifference

When I drive, my right foot is either on the gas pedal or the brake. If I was accelerating to get away, I would not have my foot on the brake. A good question would be why was he at that place at that time with his car. I would have avoided that cluster fuch. Why keep advancing into the crowd. After he was hit with the bat, he could have decided to put it in reverse and get out of there. Hard to say what someone would do when in a panic fight or flight situation.

----------


## dannno

> When I drive, my right foot is either on the gas pedal or the brake. If I was accelerating to get away, I would not have my foot on the brake. *A good question would be why was he at that place at that time with his car. I would have avoided that cluster fuch. Why keep advancing into the crowd.* After he was hit with the bat, he could have decided to put it in reverse and get out of there. Hard to say what someone would do when in a panic fight or flight situation.


The police had directed the alt-right protesters to go toward the streets where Antifa was protesting.

----------


## Madison320

> Someone hitting your car with a bat does not justify you running over other people.






> My guess is the media is first going to ratchet this down to "a little damage to your car doesn't justify murder."


I was right! I just didn't think it'd be the moderator at Ron Paul Forums!

Anyway it wasn't "someone with a bat", it was an angry mob with lots of bats. What was he supposed to do, just let himself be beat to death? I don't get this at all.

----------


## dannno

> I was right! I just didn't think it'd be the moderator at Ron Paul Forums!
> 
> Anyway it wasn't "someone with a bat", it was an angry mob with lots of bats. What was he supposed to do, just let himself be beat to death? I don't get this at all.


I'll admit that it is POSSIBLE Jason Kessler knew about the law in Virginia, purposely drove into a crowd of Antifa, waited for them to hit his car with something so he could floor it and run a bunch of them over.. BUT... that would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and I haven't seen any evidence. There was motive, and it is worth investigating, but as of now the most likely scenario seems to be that he was just trying to get out of there and feared for his life, got scared and (possibly) over-reacted a bit.

----------


## donnay

Here's a news article two days before:

From many reports I have seen and read it was said the police had "stand-down" orders and practically did nothing.




> *Road closures, heavy police presence planned for Saturday rally*
> Police estimate between 2,000 and 6,000 protesters, counter-protesters
> by Alexis Gravely | Aug 11 2017 
> 
> 
> 
> Saturdays Unite the Right rally is expected to disrupt both vehicular and pedestrian traffic starting Friday evening. In a press briefing Thursday afternoon, Charlottesville Police Department Capt. Victor Mitchell detailed the areas in downtown Charlottesville that will be affected.
> 
> Mitchell said the CPD anticipates a crowd of anywhere from 2,000 to 6,000 people, including both protesters and counter-protesters.
> ...


http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article...saturday-rally

----------


## Madison320

> When I drive, my right foot is either on the gas pedal or the brake. If I was accelerating to get away, I would not have my foot on the brake. A good question would be why was he at that place at that time with his car. I would have avoided that cluster fuch. Why keep advancing into the crowd. After he was hit with the bat, he could have decided to put it in reverse and get out of there. Hard to say what someone would do when in a panic fight or flight situation.


I agree. I would have avoided something like that by miles not blocks! 

Maybe when they starting beating his car his instinct was to move forward, away from the attack.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> When I drive, my right foot is either on the gas pedal or the brake. If I was accelerating to get away, I would not have my foot on the brake. A good question would be why was he at that place at that time with his car. I would have avoided that cluster fuch. Why keep advancing into the crowd. After he was hit with the bat, he could have decided to put it in reverse and get out of there. Hard to say what someone would do when in a panic fight or flight situation.





> I was right! I just didn't think it'd be the moderator at Ron Paul Forums!
> 
> Anyway it wasn't "someone with a bat", it was an angry mob with lots of bats. What was he supposed to do, just let himself be beat to death? I don't get this at all.


Reverse is an option. And it seemed to work just fine for him _after_ he drove into a crowd.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> We've all seen what happened to Reginald Denny. I would think a case could and will be made if one "fears for their life."


Every case is different.

The good old "fears for their life" defense cuts many ways. Tread carefully on that slippery slope.

----------


## dannno

> Reverse is an option. And it seemed to work just fine for him _after_ he drove into a crowd.


They hit the BACK of his car, the crowd was everywhere.

But you also don't get a lot of time to THINK during those kind of situations.

So the question is, what's your point? Do you think he was waiting for them to hit him so he could drive into the crowd? I think it is more likely he was just reacting out of self preservation. Certainly both are plausible, but I think most people react without thinking too much during these kind of situations.

----------


## donnay

> I'll admit that it is POSSIBLE Jason Kessler knew about the law in Virginia, purposely drove into a crowd of Antifa, waited for them to hit his car with something so he could floor it and run a bunch of them over.. BUT... that would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and I haven't seen any evidence. There was motive, and it is worth investigating, but as of now the most likely scenario seems to be that he was just trying to get out of there and feared for his life, got scared and (possibly) over-reacted a bit.


Jason Kessler was not the driver, it was James Alex Fields, Jr..

----------


## Schifference

> They hit the BACK of his car, the crowd was everywhere.
> 
> But you also don't get a lot of time to THINK during those kind of situations.


From my viewing of video there was very little crowd behind the vehicle compared to in front of it. Reverse would have been the best option.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> They hit the BACK of his car, the crowd was everywhere.
> 
> But you also don't get a lot of time to THINK during those kind of situations.


IIRC, the street behind him was relatively clear. He did eventually escape that way. Granted, you might not have a lot of time to think, but my vehicles drive much faster on empty streets rather than plowing through a mass of people.

----------


## dannno

> From my viewing of video there was very little crowd behind the vehicle compared to in front of it. Reverse would have been the best option.


When somebody is attacking the back of your car, and you don't have time to think, you would probably drive forward. There were people all around him, more in front of him, but you don't get a very good view from a seat in your car, you just have mirrors.

----------


## Schifference



----------


## dannno

> IIRC, the street behind him was relatively clear. He did eventually escape that way. Granted, you might not have a lot of time to think, but my vehicles drive much faster on empty streets rather than plowing through a mass of people.


That's all well and good, but when a group of people attacks a car, and the driver fears for their life, and the driver out of haste and fear makes a bad decision about what action to take, the blame still generally falls on the people attacking the car. 

If you worked at a convenience store, and somebody came in to rob the store with a knife, and you got out a gun and they lunge at you and then you shoot at them and the bullet ricochets and hits a customer, the robber is the one who gets blamed for that because they set the events in motion.

----------


## Schifference

> When somebody is attacking the back of your car, and you don't have time to think, you would probably drive forward. There were people all around him, more in front of him, but you don't get a very good view from a seat in your car, you just have mirrors.


I agree it is not a one size fits all. Every person would not react the same way under pressure. I like reverse and can drive very well in reverse. I think I would have looked to the front then the back and gotten out of there in reverse. But who knows that was a bad place to be! Poor judgement to even be there.

----------


## Madison320

> Reverse is an option. And it seemed to work just fine for him _after_ he drove into a crowd.


What are you, a Green Beret or something? 

Normal people don't always think logically when they're about to get killed.

----------


## Southron

A friend of mine was hit in the back of the head pretty badly while we were trying to evacuate.  It was very reasonable to fear for your life Saturday if you were alone or in small groups.

----------


## AngryCanadian

CNN is Jewish owned so i wasn't surprised by their hatred towards the white people. Remember its "The White's people fault for everything" Its the white people fault for what happened to the Jews.

----------


## phill4paul

> Every case is different.
> 
> The good old "fears for their life" defense cuts many ways. Tread carefully on that slippery slope.


   What slippery slope? Cops use it with impunity. Shouldn't others be allowed to?

----------


## phill4paul

> That's all well and good, but when a group of people attacks a car, and the driver fears for their life, and the driver out of haste and fear makes a bad decision about what action to take, the blame still generally falls on the people attacking the car. 
> 
> If you worked at a convenience store, and somebody came in to rob the store with a knife, and you got out a gun and they lunge at you and then you shoot at them and the bullet ricochets and hits a customer, the robber is the one who gets blamed for that because they set the events in motion.


  If you're a cop and you shoot at somebody and hit somebody else it is the person that was shot at that is charged.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> A Soros/neoconservative false flag operation similar to the Ukraine revolution that was started by "neo-Nazis"? McMullin, McCain and Graham have connections?

----------


## specsaregood

> Yeah, that'd be good.  The MSM makes things up all the time,  most of what they're saying is BS.  I have no idea if the Soros thing is true.
> 
> Easy rule of thumb,  major terrorism = Israel,  political skits = Soros.   You can feel free to conclude that instantly.  
> 
> Israel invented false flag.  Don't forget USS Liberty - 1967.


Uhm, the gulf of Tonkin was 13 years before that.   Hell the USS Maine incident was 70 years before the USS liberty and well before the current state of Israel existed.

----------


## Madison320

> I definitely don't have all the facts nor am I making my own judgement.  I am just saying a decent lawyer should be able to sway the jury pretty easily that a he (a WN) feared for his safety in a crowd of bat wielding antifa demonstrators.
> 
> In my own opinion, anyone who went to Charlottesville that weekend was an idiot.


I'm slightly less sure that he's innocent after watching more video. I saw the video from behind the car, looking down the street and the object he gets hit with is a flag pole. It looks pretty light to me. After that there's a gap between the "behind the car" angle and the more common "looking at the right side of the car" angle. I don't see any major damage to the car after it hits the car in front of it. But there's a lot of guys with bats and they must've been right on top of him at the point where he accelerated.

The trial should be interesting. I'll bet they get the flag guy who made first contact and question him hard.

----------


## nikcers

> Uhm, the gulf of Tonkin was 13 years before that.   Hell the USS Maine incident was 70 years before the USS liberty and well before the current state of Israel existed.


Are you saying that Jews aren't responsible for all the wars in the world? I don't know if that's the argument that he was trying to make.

----------


## RJB

> I'm slightly less sure that he's innocent after watching more video. I saw the video from behind the car, looking down the street and the object he gets hit with is a flag pole. It looks pretty light to me. After that there's a gap between the "behind the car" angle and the more common "looking at the right side of the car" angle. I don't see any major damage to the car after it hits the car in front of it. But there's a lot of guys with bats and they must've been right on top of him at the point where he accelerated.
> 
> The trial should be interesting. I'll bet they get the flag guy who made first contact and question him hard.


This guy had verbal threats, sent a woman to the hospital and months of rehab and got a misdemeanor.

----------


## phill4paul

> I'll bet they get the flag guy who made first contact and question him hard.


   Bet they don't.

----------


## brandon

It seems like this guy was probably mentally ill, and slightly provoked. Not making excuses. He'll do his time in jail or an asylum or whatever. 

It seems like a distraction from the bigger issue. We have 1000s of violent anti-white, anti-male SJWs routinely clashing with 1000s of actual nazis and fascists who claim to represent the right.  How has our society become so toxic that it has spawned all of these extremists?  The media? The identity politics of the democrats? What went wrong?

----------


## KEEF

> It seems like this guy was probably mentally ill, and slightly provoked. Not making excuses. He'll do his time in jail or an asylum or whatever. 
> 
> *It seems like a distraction from the bigger issue. We have 1000s of violent anti-white, anti-male SJWs routinely clashing with 1000s of actual nazis and fascists who claim to represent the right.  How has our society become so toxic that it has spawned all of these extremists?  The media? The identity politics of the democrats? What went wrong?*



+1

----------


## acptulsa

> . We have 1000s of violent anti-white, anti-male SJWs routinely clashing with 1000s of actual nazis and fascists who claim to represent the right.


Extremists of that sort have always existed.  Always.  I don't recall them ever having the time, money and organization to get around the thousands of miles of the U.S. before.

I certainly heard about their ilk being shipped hither and thither by the likes of Stalin and Hitler during their eras and in their territories.  But Bolshevik mercenaries traveling the width of this country?  Never before.

----------


## nikcers

> Extremists of that sort have always existed.  Always.  I don't recall them ever having the time, money and organization to get around the thousands of miles of the U.S. before.
> 
> I certainly heard about their ilk being shipped hither and thither by the likes of Stalin and Hitler during their eras and in their territories.  But Bolshevik mercenaries traveling the width of this country?  Never before.


This is obviously a cooked narrative but I am afraid the lesson of the narrative is less exciting then the Jews. The establishment cooked a narrative during the election that Trump was OK with hate, and some of his supporters were like wow, if Trump is OK with hate then he is OK with me openly hating. I am afraid the morality the media is trying to teach is- is that hate isn't great.

----------


## acptulsa

You act like Trump himself didn't deliberately send mixed messages toward that end throughout his campaign.

But I was actually talking somewhat more specifically about Antifa.

----------


## dannno



----------


## specsaregood

> This is obviously a cooked narrative but I am afraid the lesson of the narrative is less exciting then the Jews. The establishment cooked a narrative during the election that Trump was OK with hate, and some of his supporters were like wow, if Trump is OK with hate then he is OK with me openly hating. I am afraid the morality the media is trying to teach is- is that hate isn't great.


The problem is everyday these white kids see that its ok for EVERYBODY else to hate them and think, _"well if they are gonna hate me, then its ok for me to feel the same way and express it."_

----------


## nikcers

> You act like Trump himself didn't deliberately send mixed messages toward that end throughout his campaign.
> 
> But I was actually talking somewhat more specifically about Antifa.

----------


## angelatc

> I used to think this, but it's not true. The people showing up are not loving grandpas with fond affinity for their historic flag.  The people showing up are young males (18-40) who have no connections to the confederate flag, and have been radicalized into racism and hatred. 
> 
> It's hard to admit. I hate antifa and the SJWs as much as anyone and I wish there was a noble group of upstanding individuals opposing them. But there isn't. The people showing up are literally nazis and fascists.


Agreed but they're showing up to fight each other.  Either government has to prevent the violence, or there will be more blood in the street.

----------


## acptulsa

> Agreed but they're showing up to fight each other.  Either government has to prevent the violence, or there will be more blood in the street.


I smell a false either/or choice.  And I've voted in enough U.S. elections to know.

There is a third party.  But, once again, the media has so stacked the deck against it as to make the odds that you're right so astronomically good they're downright depressing.

In fact, there's only one option.  The media and government conspired to create the outcome of blood in the street.  I don't see them changing course now.  You might as well just say, there will be more blood in the street.

----------


## angelatc

> I smell a false either/or choice.  And I've voted in enough U.S. elections to know.
> 
> There is a third party.  But, once again, the media has so stacked the deck against it as to make the odds that you're right so astronomically good they're downright depressing.


You may recall that I am not a big fan of conspiracies.  However, the guy who filmed the accident is literally ex-CIA. http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ginning-215487

----------


## RonPaulMall

> It seems like this guy was probably mentally ill, and slightly provoked. Not making excuses. He'll do his time in jail or an asylum or whatever. 
> 
> It seems like a distraction from the bigger issue. We have 1000s of violent anti-white, anti-male SJWs routinely clashing with 1000s of actual nazis and fascists who claim to represent the right.  How has our society become so toxic that it has spawned all of these extremists?  The media? The identity politics of the democrats? What went wrong?


It is the logical conclusion of the media and elite's anti-white agenda. Generation Z really has no other option but to embrace White Nationalism. If they don't, they are dead. The time when pure libertarianism was an option has passed. When we failed to elect Ron Paul in 2008 we knew there would be consequences. These are those consequences. The entire right must now put their differences aside to fight and defeat the Far Left. Only then can we get back to arguing about Libertarian Ideals.

----------


## acptulsa

I'm certainly not a _fan_ of conspiracies.  But I know one when I smell one.

And I smell one.




> It is the logical conclusion of the media and elite's anti-white agenda. Generation Z really has no other option but to embrace White Nationalism. If they don't, they are dead. The time when pure libertarianism was an option has passed. When we failed to elect Ron Paul in 2008 we knew there would be consequences. These are those consequences. The entire right must now put their differences aside to fight and defeat the Far Left. Only then can we get back to arguing about Libertarian Ideals.


Not only is White Nationalism (TM) not the only way to defeat the Far Left (TM), but I'm pretty sure it _won't_ defeat _anyone_.  Except, perhaps, the fools who mistake it for an effective weapon and wield it.

----------


## brandon

> It is the logical conclusion of the media and elite's anti-white agenda. Generation Z really has no other option but to embrace White Nationalism. If they don't, they are dead. The time when pure libertarianism was an option has passed. When we failed to elect Ron Paul in 2008 we knew there would be consequences. These are those consequences. The entire right must now put their differences aside to fight and defeat the Far Left. Only then can we get back to arguing about Libertarian Ideals.


Sorry, I'm not seeing that at all. My wife and I are both gainfully employed and reproducing. Why would we be dead? 

The frustrations of failing to succeed in society lead people to blaming their failings on others.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And some good people gullible enough to join them in the fight against the leftist lunatics.


Bound to happen if you poke hard enough.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Bound to happen if you poke hard enough.
> 
> The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Sometimes, but a rabid dog is nobody's friend

----------


## nikcers

> The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?

----------


## Schifference

I have followed and read this thread and others from the beginning. Maybe I missed something. I seem to have come to the conclusion that the pro statue protestors for lack of a better name, obtained a permit to gather in the park after the cities objection to grant the permit was overruled. Two other groups that did not obtain a permit came to protest the group that did obtain the permit. The two opposing groups claim the first group is racist and hate driven. Police stood down and diverted the groups into each other and violence ensued. Then at some point a person got into a car and drove it into a crowd of people and killed a woman and injured 19 others. In another incident a helicopter crashed a couple of miles away. 

I have seen looped video's of brawls and saw people with bats hitting the car after he struck the crowd. Yes I saw one person in a slow motion video that appeared to strike the vehicle with something. 

Is there any video of the beginning of the the protest? Did the first group ever get together and peaceably speak or spew their hatred? Is there any video of the first act of violence? 

The left wants Trump to call people out by name. I noticed he did not call out BLM or Antifa. I guess they were "other hateful groups" whose names would not be politically correct to name. 

Anyway if anyone could post a video of the first punch or the beginning of the violence, I would like to watch it. I am not being lazy. I have followed countless threads and viewed many sources. I would like to see where it all started. 

Thanks.

----------


## donnay



----------


## dannno

> I have followed and read this thread and others from the beginning. Maybe I missed something. I seem to have come to the conclusion that the pro statue protestors for lack of a better name, obtained a permit to gather in the park after the cities objection to grant the permit was overruled. Two other groups that did not obtain a permit came to protest the group that did obtain the permit. The two opposing groups claim the first group is racist and hate driven. Police stood down and diverted the groups into each other and violence ensued. Then at some point a person got into a car and drove it into a crowd of people and killed a woman and injured 19 others. In another incident a helicopter crashed a couple of miles away. 
> 
> I have seen looped video's of brawls and saw people with bats hitting the car after he struck the crowd. Yes I saw one person in a slow motion video that appeared to strike the vehicle with something. 
> 
> Is there any video of the beginning of the the protest? Did the first group ever get together and peaceably speak or spew their hatred? Is there any video of the first act of violence? 
> 
> The left wants Trump to call people out by name. I noticed he did not call out BLM or Antifa. I guess they were "other hateful groups" whose names would not be politically correct to name. 
> 
> Anyway if anyone could post a video of the first punch or the beginning of the violence, I would like to watch it. I am not being lazy. I have followed countless threads and viewed many sources. I would like to see where it all started. 
> ...


Antifa came with water balloons filled with feces and urine, they threw those, and rocks, and they were macing 'nazis'. 

They think it is ok to be violent against nazis, and the police will stand down.

The problem is that the definition of nazi, to them, is anybody who has a maga hat (or a "Make Bitcoin Great Again" hat), or anybody who attends a rally supportive of the right. In this case a few nazis did attend, but everybody gets caught up.

----------


## Schifference

> 


This is all hearsay. With everyone having phones and taking video, you would think there would be video showing a peaceful demonstration being disrupted by violence.

----------


## FunkBuddha

> I have followed and read this thread and others from the beginning. Maybe I missed something. I seem to have come to the conclusion that the pro statue protestors for lack of a better name, obtained a permit to gather in the park after the cities objection to grant the permit was overruled. Two other groups that did not obtain a permit came to protest the group that did obtain the permit. The two opposing groups claim the first group is racist and hate driven. Police stood down and diverted the groups into each other and violence ensued. Then at some point a person got into a car and drove it into a crowd of people and killed a woman and injured 19 others. In another incident a helicopter crashed a couple of miles away. 
> 
> I have seen looped video's of brawls and saw people with bats hitting the car after he struck the crowd. Yes I saw one person in a slow motion video that appeared to strike the vehicle with something. 
> 
> Is there any video of the beginning of the the protest? Did the first group ever get together and peaceably speak or spew their hatred? Is there any video of the first act of violence? 
> 
> The left wants Trump to call people out by name. I noticed he did not call out BLM or Antifa. I guess they were "other hateful groups" whose names would not be politically correct to name. 
> 
> Anyway if anyone could post a video of the first punch or the beginning of the violence, I would like to watch it. I am not being lazy. I have followed countless threads and viewed many sources. I would like to see where it all started. 
> ...


 Thanks for laying out the facts. 

I would also like to request a link to the unedited footage of the person striking the car prior to it striking the crowd. It's difficult for me to tell whether or not the car was already accelerating or if the car accelerated after being struck.

----------


## Southron

> This is all hearsay. With everyone having phones and taking video, you would think there would be video showing a peaceful demonstration being disrupted by violence.


Did you read my post about what happened? There was no chance to have a peaceful demonstration.  There was no way to get to Lee Park except through Antifa and BLM.

----------


## Madison320

> Did you read my post about what happened? There was no chance to have a peaceful demonstration.  There was no way to get to Lee Park except through Antifa and BLM.


I'm probably in a minority of one but I don't think it was a conspiracy. I think the govt and police are just stupid. I think it's more likely that they had no idea what they were doing.

What's more interesting to me is the video evidence that clearly shows the driver getting hit before he accelerates and why the media still hasn't mentioned it!

This is all the media cares about**:


"Trump has attacked just about everyone on Twitter. But not white supremacists"

"Do Trump's Tweets Speak Louder Than His Teleprompter Words?"

"The Note: Trump's delayed Charlottesville condemnation may be a Band-Aid on a shotgun wound"

"Trump faces business backlash over handling of Charlottesville upheaval"

"Today: Trump Finally Said It: Racist Violence Is Repugnant"

"The Daily 202: Trump acts like the president of the Red States of America"

"Trump's tepid Charlottesville response: Darcy cartoon"

"Analysis: Trump's slow walk to condemning white supremacists"

"Trump Must Confront Hate Groups His Political Rise Energized, Experts Say"

----------


## donnay

> This is all hearsay. With everyone having phones and taking video, you would think there would be video showing a peaceful demonstration being disrupted by violence.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I'm probably in a minority of one but I don't think it was a conspiracy. I think the govt and police are just stupid. I think it's more likely that they had no idea what they were doing.


They forced them into AntiFa and then left when the violence began, they knew exactly what they were doing.

----------


## dannno

> Thanks for laying out the facts. 
> 
> I would also like to request a link to the unedited footage of the person striking the car prior to it striking the crowd. It's difficult for me to tell whether or not the car was already accelerating or if the car accelerated after being struck.


The slow-mo video in the tweet it was hard to tell, but you could more clearly see the guy hitting the car.

In the link posted previous to that, you could see the car speeding off after the strike.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> They forced them into AntiFa and then left when the violence began, they knew exactly what they were doing.


yep, manufactured event.

brought to you, by. . . take a guess

----------


## dannno

> I'm probably in a minority of one but I don't think it was a conspiracy. I think the govt and police are just stupid. I think it's more likely that they had no idea what they were doing.


First of all, the Mayor said that after Trump was elected they wanted Charlottesville to be the center of the resistance against Trump's Presidency.

What happened was they got a permit some how, then they were found out and it got cancelled, then the ACLU came in and told the city that had to respect the permit. 

They got upset and set them up to meet heavy resistance, there was months of planning. The second Molyneux video I posted on the last page I think goes through this.

----------


## phill4paul

> They forced them into AntiFa and then left when the violence began, they knew exactly what they were doing.


  Yes, they did. The C-Ville city council wanted to move the rally to McIntyre park for "safety reasons." They said it was a larger space and would be easier to control the crowds. A Fed Court shot that down and said the event had to proceed as planned. From that moment on I believe the thought was "$#@! it, let them brawl and then we can have a big 'we told you so' moment." The cops literally did NOTHING other than declare the rally unlawfully right as it was about to start and then drive the participants into the streets and into the anti-Fa.

----------


## dannno

> This is all hearsay. With everyone having phones and taking video, you would think there would be video showing a peaceful demonstration being disrupted by violence.


lol.. There is video of this happening to her.. are you joking?

Why all the denial? It's like you haven't seen all of the videos of antifa talking about how they want to go smash fascists.. It's like you didn't see them beat up a girl with a red "Make Bitcoin Great Again" hat, the u-lock video and all of the other videos of antifa attacking largely groups of people who are standing up for free speech. 

You can't go down the street in most cities with a red MAGA hat without being harassed and potentially beaten up, and Antifa is the most extreme, feral element. Not sure why this is so hard to believe.

----------


## FunkBuddha

> The slow-mo video in the tweet it was hard to tell, but you could more clearly see the guy hitting the car.
> 
> In the link posted previous to that, you could see the car speeding off after the strike.



I can see the person hitting the car. At the same time though, it looks like people are running to get out of the way of the car. The car appears to be moving along pretty quickly when it's hit but there does seem to be an acceleration afterwards. The folks with the bats that attacked the car after the plowing through would've been clearly visible to the driver. It also seems as though they were on him pretty quick after he stopped which leads me to believe they might've already been chasing him although I can't see that in the video.

----------


## Madison320

> It also seems as though they were on him pretty quick after he stopped which leads me to believe they might've already been chasing him although I can't see that in the video.



That was what I noticed also. If you were just standing around, were surprised by the crash, then decided to retaliate, I don't see how you'd get there so fast. It would be logical to assume they were already in the process of chasing/attacking the car.

----------


## Schifference

> 


Thanks!

----------


## donnay

> Thanks!


You're welcome.  Hope that helped you out.

----------


## Madison320

Damn, Now I'm changing my mind a little. I saw the rear view video at normal speed and he was going too fast considering it was a street full of people. He wasn't at ramming speed but it was too fast. I think he deserves some type of manslaughter charge, for approaching a crowd that fast. I think his speed angered the protestors and they attacked, then he either retaliated or got scared. So it was the initial speed that started the chain of events. At least that's my latest theory.

----------


## thetruthhurtsthefed

Search Youtube for:  Charlottesville False Flag Theory- Something Strange is going on. [Graphic Content].  great vid on the inconsistencies, potential actors, dry runs etc....eye opening

----------


## donnay

> Damn, Now I'm changing my mind a little. I saw the rear view video at normal speed and he was going too fast considering it was a street full of people. He wasn't at ramming speed but it was too fast. I think he deserves some type of manslaughter charge, for approaching a crowd that fast. I think his speed angered the protestors and they attacked, then he either retaliated or got scared. So it was the initial speed that started the chain of events. At least that's my latest theory.


Here are some anomalies:

The thing is did anyone give a positive ID of the driver?  The person driving certainly had some good driving skills to back up straight and fast and bug out the way he did.  

The police helicopter probably had a birds-eye view of said vehicle and yet somehow it crashed.

How come there were no detours for vehicles during the protests?  And where was the cops, why did it take so long to respond to this incident?

----------


## lilymc

> A Soros/neoconservative false flag operation similar to the Ukraine revolution that was started by "neo-Nazis"? McMullin, McCain and Graham have connections?


And it just so happened to be on Soros' birthday.

----------


## dannno

> Search Youtube for:  Charlottesville False Flag Theory- Something Strange is going on. [Graphic Content].  great vid on the inconsistencies, potential actors, dry runs etc....eye opening

----------


## FunkBuddha

> Damn, Now I'm changing my mind a little. I saw the rear view video at normal speed and he was going too fast considering it was a street full of people. He wasn't at ramming speed but it was too fast. I think he deserves some type of manslaughter charge, for approaching a crowd that fast. I think his speed angered the protestors and they attacked, then he either retaliated or got scared. So it was the initial speed that started the chain of events. At least that's my latest theory.


Mind linking that video?

----------


## devil21

I'm rather impressed by Trump's press conference going on right now.  He's sounding like a voice of reason.  Weird.

----------


## dannno

> Damn, Now I'm changing my mind a little. I saw the rear view video at normal speed and he was going too fast considering it was a street full of people. He wasn't at ramming speed but it was too fast. I think he deserves some type of manslaughter charge, for approaching a crowd that fast. I think his speed angered the protestors and they attacked, then he either retaliated or got scared. So it was the initial speed that started the chain of events. At least that's my latest theory.


I think what happened was he was following the other cars down the street, you could see in the original video the media put out that they were ahead of him and moving.. and he started to see the crowd flow into the street and block it and so he was trying to go fast enough to catch up so they wouldn't block off the roadway completely before he got there, but it wasn't ramming speed, and there was a clear heavy acceleration after they hit his car.

----------


## dannno

> Mind linking that video?


http://www.departmentofmemes.com/art...-baseball-bat/

----------


## FunkBuddha

> http://www.departmentofmemes.com/art...-baseball-bat/


I'm looking for the unedited version of that video, without the zoom effect, and preferably with the preceding and trailing few seconds.

----------


## FunkBuddha

> I'm looking for the unedited version of that video, without the zoom effect, and preferably with the preceding and trailing few seconds.



Found it.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Found it.


It looks to me like he was attempting to intimidate them into moving out of the way and panicked when they attacked instead.

----------


## Madison320

> It looks to me like he was attempting to intimidate them into moving out of the way and panicked when they attacked instead.


Yup. Either panicked or got pissed off. But not even close to a premeditated terrorist attack.

----------


## Madison320

> Found it.


That's the one I saw also.

I think the fact that he was going too fast explains why there were so many "bat ready" guys that attacked when he crashed. A lot of people were looking up like WTF? I think that's what prompted the initial flag attack also.

----------


## phill4paul

> I'm rather impressed by Trump's press conference going on right now.  He's sounding like a voice of reason.  Weird.


  He gave 'em hell. I was lmao.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

Stumbled on this news,  reporting and dates are not clear.  All sides should step back to contain situation.  

*Social media connects Ohio to Charlottesville attack*

 Posted by FOX19 Digital Media Staff

    FOX19 -             People who attended the protests in Charlottesville over the weekend are being called out on social media. 
Commenters  are attempting to identify the participants and, in one case,  apparently recognized a former Mason High School student among the  violence. 
http://www.wtol.com/story/36132730/s...esville-attack



*Statue of Martin Luther King on MLK Bridge vandalized*

    TOLEDO, OH (WTOL) - Just one day after  the holiday to celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.,  the statue of  the late civil rights leader that sits on the bridge that bears his name  over the Maumee River was vandalized.
http://www.wtol.com/story/11846562/s...dge-vandalized

----------


## FunkBuddha

> That's the one I saw also.
> 
> I think the fact that he was going too fast explains why there were so many "bat ready" guys that attacked when he crashed. A lot of people were looking up like WTF? I think that's what prompted the initial flag attack also.


So I guess the question is, can he claim that he was traveling at a high rate of speed because because there were people glaring at him menacingly and carrying bats? I think he can. He had just left a rally where people were being assaulted. 

Another question might be, why was he going the way he was going? Does that even matter? It's a public street. He could've been going to get a taco.

It's a shame that all of this could have been avoided if the police had policed. They hut-hut around in body armor all day but when it comes time to put on the riot gear and actually do the enforcing they stand down. The white nationalists had a valid permit, antifa and the other commies did not. Like it or not, that should've been reason for the police to disperse or at least contain the leftists.

----------


## RJB

Of course he was scared.  What do you think a Vanguard America $#@! is going to feel when he suddenly finds himself surrounded by armed Antifa and BLM?  The question the court has, was his presence there due to stupidity or was he looking for trouble?

----------


## Natural Citizen

This is a prime example of why we need private roads.

----------


## dannno

> Of course he was scared.  What do you think a Vanguard America $#@! is going to feel when he suddenly finds himself surrounded by armed Antifa and BLM?  The question the court has, was his presence there due to stupidity or was he looking for trouble?


Neither. His presence there was due to purposeful police negligence in pushing the permitted protesters into the non-permitted counter protesting crowd.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> 


anyone else think that the guy driving into the crowd looks way older than the accused ?

----------


## RJB

> Neither. His presence there was due to purposeful police negligence in pushing the permitted protesters into the non-permitted counter protesting crowd.


I am not talking about the protest.  I am guessing the prosecution will try to determine when he was leaving, was he just trying to get out of town or was he looking to drive through a crowd of counter protesters.  (I am not a lawyer, but I am guessing establishing the driver's intent will be key.)

----------


## Antischism

> so you haven't seen the video of bat wielding anarchists surrounding the vehicle and attacking before the vehicle accelerates forward? Go get all the facts before you speak.


Where is this video of the driver being attacked by "bat-wielding" anarchists that forces him to hit the gas into a group of protesters?

----------


## RJB

> anyone else think that the guy driving into the crowd looks way older than the accused ?


I thought the driver's face looked a little pudgier.  He might have been mildly roughed up when taken into custody

----------


## RJB

I can't post the article.  I am on my phone, but I am reading an article that says the driver was a Hillary supporter.  I don't know if it's true, but I am going to hold my opinions until more comes out.  This may be a never ending series of rabbit holes.

----------


## Schifference

Was there something going on last week about the DNC and DWS?

----------


## dannno

> Where is this video of the driver being attacked by "bat-wielding" anarchists that forces him to hit the gas into a group of protesters?


A better question is what is the media's motivation for keeping the video (actually two) away from your eyes?

----------


## Antischism

> A better question is what is the media's motivation for keeping the video (actually two) away from your eyes?


I would attack the car/driver if I just witnessed attempted murder, too.

----------


## devil21

> anyone else think that the guy driving into the crowd looks way older than the accused ?


Yeah, whole thing looks like another orchestrated event designed to elicit an emotional response from low info types.  The guys in the still frame look more like military/police than what I would expect, too.  That is a good video.




> Was there something going on last week about the DNC and DWS?


Nope, not a thing.  Why do you ask?

----------


## Dr.3D

> I would attack the car/driver if I just witnessed attempted murder, too.


But that last video shows the car/driver was just trying to avoid a violent outcome.

Would you not fear for your life if people were hitting your car with bats?

----------


## devil21

"Excuse me, Mr. Antifa, I don't mean to interrupt your "Down with Nazis!  We want socialism!" chant but can you tell me the official name of the Nazi party?"

"Sure, scro, it's the Hitler Party.  Professor at the community college told me."

"Riiiiiight.  Carry on with your righteous protest."

----------


## Antischism

> But that last video shows the car/driver was just trying to avoid a violent outcome.
> 
> Would you not fear for your life if people were hitting your car with bats?


I'm not seeing where the vehicle was initially being attacked with blunt objects which would theoretically have caused him to "panic." Further, he could have put it in reverse if his intention was getting away rather than ramming into a crowd of people beforehand.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> 


....

----------


## Madison320

> So I guess the question is, can he claim that he was traveling at a high rate of speed because because there were people glaring at him menacingly and carrying bats? I think he can. He had just left a rally where people were being assaulted.


He might claim it but from that video it didn't seem the likely reason. At that point where he was still about 100 feet away from the flag guy if he was scared it wouldn't make sense to speed up to a spot where there's way more menacing people. At that point he could've backed up if he was worried. I've done that before. I've taken a wrong turn and wound up on a street that had a crowd up ahead with not so nice people and quickly backed out of there. The last thing you'd do is speed up to the edge of the crowd.

----------


## Dr.3D

*Neo-Nazi Vanguard America group denies link to Charlottesville attacker*



> On Sunday Vanguard America denied any link to Fields, claiming in a statement posted on Twitter that the shields were given out "freely" to anyone in attendance at the far-right rally.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

the plot thickens !

or should I say thins out !

----------


## TheCount

> It is the logical conclusion of the media and elite's anti-white agenda. Generation Z really has no other option but to embrace White Nationalism. If they don't, they are dead. The time when pure libertarianism was an option has passed. When we failed to elect Ron Paul in 2008 we knew there would be consequences. These are those consequences. The entire right must now put their differences aside to fight and defeat the Far Left. Only then can we get back to arguing about Libertarian Ideals.


If nothing else good comes out of this mess, at least it's drawn out into the open a whole bunch of people who had previously just been dog-whistling into being far more blatant as to their true political beliefs.

----------


## RJB

I can't find that article about him supporting Clinton.  I was reading, posting and doing things around the house.  I haven't been able to refind it with an internet search.  Sorry if I misled anyone.

On another note, the news reports call him by his first, middle and last name, like Lee Harvey Oswald.  It seems a lot of controversial people are known by three names.  Is that because of the way law enforcement releases the name or is it something else?

----------


## acptulsa

> "Excuse me, Mr. Antifa, I don't mean to interrupt your "Down with Nazis!  We want socialism!" chant but can you tell me the official name of the Nazi party?"
> 
> "Sure, scro, it's the Hitler Party.  Professor at the community college told me."
> 
> "Riiiiiight.  Carry on with your righteous protest."


I don't suppose the phrase National Socialism means anything to you...

Nah, thought not.

----------


## timosman

> I don't suppose the phrase National Socialism means anything to you...


Nah, we don't care about these peculiarities. We simply want to stick a label on everybody who might disagree with us.

----------


## acptulsa

> If nothing else good comes out of this mess, at least it's drawn out into the open a whole bunch of people who had previously just been dog-whistling into being far more blatant as to their true political beliefs.


Are you seriously, particularly accusing _RonPaulMall_ of subtlety?

I'd say he has every reason to resent that baseless accusation!

----------


## donnay

> I can't find that article about him supporting Clinton.  I was reading, posting and doing things around the house.  I haven't been able to refind it with an internet search.  Sorry if I misled anyone.
> 
> *On another note, the news reports call him by his first, middle and last name, like Lee Harvey Oswald.*  It seems a lot of controversial people are known by three names.  Is that because of the way law enforcement releases the name or is it something else?


Bingo!  That was my first thought.  James Alex Fields Jr.

_You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RJB again._

----------


## TheCount

> Are you seriously, particularly accusing _RonPaulMall_ of subtlety?
> 
> I'd say he has every reason to resent that baseless accusation!


Some posters seem to have been surprised by the blatant expression of racial identity politics in the last couple of days.  Obviously, the dog whistles and pandering in that direction were less obvious to them than it may have been to others.

----------


## devil21

> I can't find that article about him supporting Clinton.  I was reading, posting and doing things around the house.  I haven't been able to refind it with an internet search.  Sorry if I misled anyone.


You may be confusing it with the "white supremacist leader" Kessler that was recently an Obama supporter, Occupy Wall St member and even shared a name with a CNN writer.

----------


## acptulsa

> Some posters seem to have been surprised by the blatant expression of racial identity politics in the last couple of days.


And I'm one of them.  But I knew RonPaulMall was about as libertarian as von Bismarck the moment I saw that his screen name punned the good doctor into a pack of cigarettes.

And that's about how subtle he has been ever since.  Gotta give him points for honesty.  And shamelessness.

----------


## Schifference

> He might claim it but from that video it didn't seem the likely reason. At that point where he was still about 100 feet away from the flag guy if he was scared it wouldn't make sense to speed up to a spot where there's way more menacing people. At that point he could've backed up if he was worried. I've done that before. I've taken a wrong turn and wound up on a street that had a crowd up ahead with not so nice people and quickly backed out of there. The last thing you'd do is speed up to the edge of the crowd.


^^**This**^^

----------


## timosman

> He might claim it but from that video it didn't seem the likely reason. At that point where he was still about 100 feet away from the flag guy if he was scared it wouldn't make sense to speed up to a spot where there's way more menacing people. At that point he could've backed up if he was worried. I've done that before. I've taken a wrong turn and wound up on a street that had a crowd up ahead with not so nice people and quickly backed out of there. The last thing you'd do is speed up to the edge of the crowd.


Maybe his car accelerated on its own?

----------


## dannno

> He might claim it but from that video it didn't seem the likely reason. At that point where he was still about 100 feet away from the flag guy if he was scared it wouldn't make sense to speed up to a spot where there's way more menacing people. At that point he could've backed up if he was worried. I've done that before. I've taken a wrong turn and wound up on a street that had a crowd up ahead with not so nice people and quickly backed out of there. The last thing you'd do is speed up to the edge of the crowd.


I don't think he wanted to stop his car at all, anywhere near any of those people. He was in a bit of a clearing, but there is no video of what was behind him or down the other streets and that was the direction police told him to go.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

It's up to the Justice system now. Wait for the "protests" by the peaceful left if the verdict is anything but premeditated murder on this guy.

----------


## angelatc

> It's up to the Justice system now. Wait for the "protests" by the peaceful left if the verdict is anything but premeditated murder on this guy.


THe peaceful left will certainly respect the jury's verdict.  I mean, after all, she's white.

----------


## angelatc



----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I'm waiting for the first whiff of coverage in the media that he might actually be innocent. It's amazing how they're not even touching it. He's already been convicted. Even Trump convicted him which I'm not sure if that's kosher to have the president declare someone's guilt before the trial.


They have certainly prejudiced the jury pool. Innocent until proven guilty was a quaint concept, but it was created by slave masters, so it's invalid.

"Guilty until proven innocent" is the new mantra from the neo-Stalinists (Antifa, BLM, anarcho-communists, CNN, etc.). They believe that phrase will be the rule during their Great Purge.

----------


## jllundqu

And there is a purge coming

----------


## Madison320

> They have certainly prejudiced the jury pool. Innocent until proven guilty was a quaint concept, but it was created by slave masters, so it's invalid.
> 
> "Guilty until proven innocent" is the new mantra from the neo-Stalinists (Antifa, BLM, anarcho-communists, CNN, etc.). They believe that phrase will be the rule during their Great Purge.


I wonder what the media's reaction would've been if it was a black guy driving the car and if the mob was the KKK.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I wonder what the media's reaction would've been if it was a black guy driving the car and if the mob was the KKK.


They would give him the Nobel Peace Prize.

----------


## tod evans

> I wonder what the media's reaction would've been if it was a black guy driving the car and if the mob was the KKK.


^^^^^^ This is the only sane way to evaluate the situation. ^^^^^^^^

Put the shoe on the other foot...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I wonder what the media's reaction would've been if it was a black guy driving the car and if the mob was the KKK.





> ^^^^^^ This is the only sane way to evaluate the situation. ^^^^^^^^
> 
> Put the shoe on the other foot...


Don Lemon:  "He was in terrible fear for his life from the violent and murderous mob."
Rachel Maddow: "Studies find that in instances like this it is usually a stuck accelerator."
Wolf Blitzer: "Let's not rush to judgement, we need to wait for all of the facts to come in."

----------


## tod evans

> Don Lemon:  "He was in terrible fear for his life from the violent and murderous mob."
> Rachel Maddow: "Studies find that in instances like this it is usually a stuck accelerator."
> Wolf Blitzer: "Let's not rush to judgement, we need to wait for all of the facts to come in."


Ya' know, I've seen more of these idiots in the last 4 days than I have in the last 8 years...

It's my own fault for watching YouTube but I can tell I've lost precious IQ points in the short amount of time I listened. 

$#@! these social engineers and their agenda.

----------


## Madison320

> Don Lemon:  "He was in terrible fear for his life from the violent and murderous mob."
> Rachel Maddow: "Studies find that in instances like this it is usually a stuck accelerator."
> Wolf Blitzer: "Let's not rush to judgement, we need to wait for all of the facts to come in."


LOL!

But seriously, that's EXACTLY what they'd be saying. There's not even a chance they'd be saying anything else.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

any satellite images here yet ?

----------


## dannno

> any satellite images here yet ?


I found some drone footage a while back, but a building pretty much blocked everything.

----------


## AuH20

Political appointees with snazzy uniforms. Nuff said.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

^ they were banking on gunfire, no ?

they didn't get it, so the Charger plan ?

----------


## acptulsa

> they didn't get it, so the Charger plan ?


Challenger.

Can we just say 'Dodge'?

----------


## Madison320

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the police station where they're holding the driver. I can imagine one cop whispering to another cop, "he might be innocent, what are we going to do? Can I get a transfer?"

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

bump

----------


## angelatc

> Challenger.
> 
> Can we just say 'Dodge'?


Government subsidized car.

----------


## acptulsa

> Government subsidized car.


Is there any other kind?

You have to be more specific than that.  _Italian_ government car.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Been out of the loop. What's the latest? Did they find out the dude was on prescription SSRIs? Schizophrenic?

----------


## CaptainAmerica

BLM is astroturf orchestrated marxism

----------


## Madison320

> Been out of the loop. What's the latest? Did they find out the dude was on prescription SSRIs? Schizophrenic?


I haven't seen anything new on the actual case other than the initial reports. The next court date is supposed to be Aug 25.

----------


## Ender

> Been out of the loop. What's the latest? Did they find out the dude was on prescription SSRIs? Schizophrenic?


Probably an alphabet.

----------


## UWDude

> Political appointees with snazzy uniforms. Nuff said.


Also, that helicopter footage... gone in the crash that killed the 2 VA state troopers.

----------


## UWDude

> Been out of the loop. What's the latest? Did they find out the dude was on prescription SSRIs? Schizophrenic?


On medications for schizophrenia, adored Adolf Hitler.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> On medications for schizophrenia, adored Adolf Hitler.


damn. . . whoever was driving that car sure could maneuver a car like they head wasn't all jello

( referring to the back-out down the street at high speed scene )

----------


## UWDude

certainly a prime candidate for a patsy

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

If this kid is truly a bubba racist I really can't see him using his Dodge Challenger for the deed.  If he had planned this out he would have found an old pickup truck.  I live in the South and if someone has a muscle car, they sure aren't going to do anything intentional to damage it...

I'm going to believe that someone attacked his car and he tried to get out of there by hitting the gas...

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> If this kid is truly a bubba racist I really can't see him using his Dodge Challenger for the deed.  If he had planned this out he would have found an old pickup truck.  I live in the South and if someone has a muscle car, they sure aren't going to do anything intentional to damage it...
> 
> I'm going to believe that someone attacked his car and he tried to get out of there by hitting the gas...


have you seen videos with the close-up photo of the driver ? 

is the shirt different ?  he definitely not wearing glasses

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> have you seen videos with the close-up photo of the driver ? 
> 
> is the shirt different ?  he definitely not wearing glasses


No I have not.  What point are you trying to make?  Does it look like someone else?

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

doesn't look like the same guy

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

Lots of truth hidden in this thread. . . also lots of very crucial ( hopefully not forgotten ) questions raised.

----------


## Jamesiv1

> If this kid is truly a bubba racist I really can't see him using his Dodge Challenger for the deed. If he had planned this out he would have found an old pickup truck. I live in the South and if someone has a muscle car, they sure aren't going to do anything intentional to damage it...
> 
> I'm going to believe that someone attacked his car and he tried to get out of there by hitting the gas...


totally this^^

If he had been on a suicide mission (or a don't care if I'm caught mission) then sure, who cares about the car.

But that guy (whoever it was) backed out of there with intent and forethought. So why would he trash his chick-mobile?  He wouldn't, that's why.

----------


## dannno

> If this kid is truly a bubba racist I really can't see him using his Dodge Challenger for the deed.  If he had planned this out he would have found an old pickup truck.  I live in the South and if someone has a muscle car, they sure aren't going to do anything intentional to damage it...
> 
> I'm going to believe that someone attacked his car and he tried to get out of there by hitting the gas...


Evidence in this thread seems to indicate less possibility of it being self-defense, but I am not taking it off the table because I don't know why he circled around, or allegedly arrived at the scene over a minute early, or what happened in between all that. Maybe there were road blocks, protesters, police lines or checkpoints that made him circle around who knows.. but it sure does add some twists to the whole thing.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ged-Livestream

----------


## FunkBuddha

> Lots of truth hidden in this thread. . . also lots of very crucial ( hopefully not forgotten ) questions raised.


Unfortunately for the man driving the car, I don't think the truth matters at this point.

----------


## Madison320

> Unfortunately for the man driving the car, I don't think the truth matters at this point.


Yup. He's stuck in jail with no bail and they delayed his hearing for 3 months! So much for the right to a speedy trial. The politics of this case are more important.

"Prosecutors and the attorney for James Alex Fields Jr. filed a motion asking a judge to set Dec. 14 as the date for a preliminary hearing."

http://wtop.com/virginia/2017/08/fie...ing-postponed/

----------


## Madison320

> Evidence in this thread seems to indicate less possibility of it being self-defense, but I am not taking it off the table because I don't know why he circled around, or allegedly arrived at the scene over a minute early, or what happened in between all that. Maybe there were road blocks, protesters, police lines or checkpoints that made him circle around who knows.. but it sure does add some twists to the whole thing.
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ged-Livestream


One of the many problems with that "theory" is that the driver would've had to basically commit suicide since he knew he'd be going to jail for life or maybe even getting the death penalty.

----------


## mrsat_98

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2017...blance-of.html

SAndy Hook moms vs Charlottesville moms

----------


## Swordsmyth

> One of the many problems with that "theory" is that the driver would've had to basically commit suicide since he knew he'd be going to jail for life or maybe even getting the death penalty.


Unless he had deep state sponsors who promised to fake his death or incarceration and give him a new identity.

Note: I don't know if this is true, we may never know.

----------


## Jamesiv1

Will be interesting to see how he unpacks this one.

The film starts at 8:42 if you want to skip the intro.




The duct-tape medics are a nice touch lol

----------


## devil21

> http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2017...blance-of.html
> 
> SAndy Hook moms vs Charlottesville moms


All the world is a stage...

----------


## charrob

//

----------


## Swordsmyth

From ZeroHedge:





MarsInScorpio                       MisterMousePotato         Aug 30, 2017 12:24 AM 
            RESEARCH MEMO SENT TO NY DAILY NEWS

 Virginia and New York, as do many other states and localities, have a   statute against wearing a mask in public except under certain precise   circumstances.  Breaking the Virginia statute is a Class 6 Felony. These   laws were passed to end the practice of the KKK wearing its hoods.
 The Antifa Black Shirts committed a Class 6 Felony by wearing masks  in  Charlottesville. Because this is a felony violation, police are   obligated to order them to remove the masks, or begin making arrests   immediately. 
 Law enforcement officers do not have the choice to stand down in the   witness of a felony. Except for special circumstances that do not apply   in the Charlottesville incident (drug stings, infiltrating criminal   organizations, and so on), it is illegal for LEOs to witness a felony   and do nothing to stop the felony and arrest the perpetrator of the   felony.
 Had the Virginia statute been vigorously enforced, it's reasonable to   believe there would've been no violence in Charlottesville because so   many Antifa would have either disbursed, or been arrested - unable to   commit their violence.
 Just as with the Klan, the mask empowers the Antifas to commit  violent  crimes without concern about being identified and prosecuted.
 In addition , it's likely the mayor committed two felonies in  ordering  the police to stand down: 1) He facilitated the commission of a  felony  by allowing the Antifas to wear their masks in violation of the   statute, and 2) he obstructed justice by interfering in the execution of   the statute. His order was never an option; he made himself criminally   liable by issuing his illegal order - which, because it is an illegal   order, the police are legally obligated to ignore. 
 It's time for a national law modeled on the Virginia and New York   statutes. Take away the masks, and you'll see a tremendous reduction in   violence, just as it did to the Klan-violence when the laws were   enacted.
 BTW, these laws have been tested and were found constitutional  because  they address ending violence, terror, fear, and anarchy in  society.

----------


## devil21

^^^^^^^^^^



> It's time for a national law modeled on the Virginia and New York statutes. Take away the masks, and you'll see a tremendous reduction in violence, just as it did to the Klan-violence when the laws were enacted.
> BTW, these laws have been tested and were found constitutional because they address ending violence, terror, fear, and anarchy in society.


Err, what?  No thanks.  Big Brother reverse psychology tactic.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> Err, what?  No thanks.  Big Brother reverse psychology tactic.


To clarify I am not in favor of a new federal law, I posted this because it shows leftist privilege in the enforcement of the laws.

----------


## Madison320

> Unless he had deep state sponsors who promised to fake his death or incarceration and give him a new identity.
> 
> Note: I don't know if this is true, we may never know.


If it was a setup, it sure as hell was complicated. First they had to get Jason Kessler to work undercover to form a bogus Unite the Right movement. Then they had to put out ads in Charlotte (not Charlottesville) to hire actors? Then the mayor of Charlottesville denied the request to have the protest which makes no sense since he was supposed to be in on the conspiracy. So then they would've had to pay off the judge to overrule the mayor. Then they got the mayor to instruct the police to have the two sides merge together which is risky because it could've easily been an Antifa attacking an Alt Right guy and backfiring. That means the police chief was probably in on it also. Then they had to get a driver which means they had to find someone who was willing to get the death penalty or get life in prison. Not sure why they would've had the flagpole guy hit the car in advance, seems like taking a big chance on self defense. Why didn't the driver just zoom down the street and kill a bunch of people?

Why stage an incredibly complicated setup, exposing yourself to all kinds of leaks, since lots of people would have to be in on it, for such a risky minimal payoff? 

If they could get one guy for a suicide mission all they need to do was have him march with the Alt Right, take out a gun and shoot a bunch of counter protesters. That would be orders of magnitude more efficient than that cockamamie conspiracy theory.

----------


## Jamesiv1

> If it was a setup, it sure as hell was complicated. First they had to get Jason Kessler to work undercover to form a bogus Unite the Right movement. Then they had to put out ads in Charlotte (not Charlottesville) to hire actors? Then the mayor of Charlottesville denied the request to have the protest which makes no sense since he was supposed to be in on the conspiracy. So then they would've had to pay off the judge to overrule the mayor. Then they got the mayor to instruct the police to have the two sides merge together which is risky because it could've easily been an Antifa attacking an Alt Right guy and backfiring. That means the police chief was probably in on it also. Then they had to get a driver which means they had to find someone who was willing to get the death penalty or get life in prison. Not sure why they would've had the flagpole guy hit the car in advance, seems like taking a big chance on self defense. Why didn't the driver just zoom down the street and kill a bunch of people?
> 
> Why stage an incredibly complicated setup, exposing yourself to all kinds of leaks, since lots of people would have to be in on it, for such a risky minimal payoff? 
> 
> If they could get one guy for a suicide mission all they need to do was have him march with the Alt Right, take out a gun and shoot a bunch of counter protesters. That would be orders of magnitude more efficient than that cockamamie conspiracy theory.


When it comes to sabotaging the Trump administration, the alt-left Nazi Fascists know no bounds.

----------


## Southron

Heather Heyer died of a heart attack.  I can't believe I haven't seen this anywhere.  Here is her mother admitting just this.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/heathe...-1028340803735

----------


## dannno

> Heather Heyer died of a heart attack.  I can't believe I haven't seen this anywhere.  Here is her mother admitting just this.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/video/heathe...-1028340803735


Wow, so she could have died the next day after seeing a spider on the wall in her bathroom?

Did the car strike her? Were there any other injuries?

----------


## Southron

> Wow, so she could have died the next day after seeing a spider on the wall in her bathroom?
> 
> Did the car strike her? Were there any other injuries?


She was very obese.  She is wearing black and I haven't seen any footage of her actually getting struck by the car, though I think someone says she has a leg injury in one video.

----------


## Southron

How the hell are they gonna prove 2nd degree murder if she died of a heart attack?  Or even manslaughter?

I've seen a video of someone performing chest compressions on her.  It's entirely possible that if she was unconscious and not already in cardiac arrest,  that the chest compressions could have triggered the heart attack.

----------


## Valli6

> Heather Heyer died of a heart attack.  I can't believe I haven't seen this anywhere.  Here is her mother admitting just this.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/video/heathe...-1028340803735


Maybe she meant "cardiac arrest"? Theyre often confused. While cardiac arrest can be caused by a heart attack, it can also be triggered by some trauma - like no oxygen to the brain, or too much blood loss.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Heather Heyer died of a heart attack.  I can't believe I haven't seen this anywhere.  Here is her mother admitting just this.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/video/heathe...-1028340803735


They are sweeping that under the rug.




> Maybe she meant "cardiac arrest"? Theyre often confused. While cardiac arrest can be caused by a heart attack, it can also be triggered by some trauma - like no oxygen to the brain, or too much blood loss.


She said her daughter died instantly from the heart attack. That would indicate not enough time for blood loss.

Perhaps this is the reason they have delayed the hearing and trial for the driver.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=19a_1504662759

----------


## dannno

> She said her daughter died instantly from the heart attack. That would indicate not enough time for blood loss.
> 
> Perhaps this is the reason they have delayed the hearing and trial for the driver.


I thought she said that she had a heart attack at the scene of the accident, they revived her and took her to the hospital, then she died?

Not sure what that means, I suppose it is possible she had cardiac arrest at the scene, they revived her and took her to the hospital and she died, but would be nice to get some clarification.. although they may be able to fabricate the clarification.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Wow, so she could have died the next day after seeing a spider on the wall in her bathroom?
> 
> Did the car strike her? Were there any other injuries?





> She was very obese.  She is wearing black and I haven't seen any footage of her actually getting struck by the car, though I think someone says she has a leg injury in one video.


Pretty sure she was hit by the car. She was thrown over the top of the second car and on to the hood. The impact probably caused the heart attack, but who knows how that will effect the charges?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Black pants, green shirt...

----------


## RJB

There is a bit of dark irony that they were chanting, "whose streets, our streets!" At the moment of impact.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=19a_1504662759


The mother said "instantly", but that is not reflected by video after the accident. She was sitting up after being pulled off the car. I'd chalk the "instantly" claim by the mother up to a something probably told to her to make her feel better, and she wants to believe it.

It will come out eventually at trial. Video of her sitting up after the accident will make prosecution even more difficult. Absent any other major injuries, the defense could claim that she died of a heart attack after the crash. Obviously she wouldn't be dead without the crash occurring, but this could effect prosecution.

----------


## dannno

> Pretty sure she was hit by the car. She was thrown over the top of the second car and on to the hood. The impact probably caused the heart attack, but who knows how that will effect the charges?


Can't tell cause that red flag is in the way, but it looks more like she may have been in front of the silver car and got thrown onto it when the Challenger hit the rear of the silver car and propelled it forward.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Can't tell cause that red flag is in the way, but it looks more like she may have been in front of the silver car and got thrown onto it when the Challenger hit the rear of the silver car and propelled it forward.


There are other angles that show it more clearly.

----------


## Southron

Is the woman hit in the video the same as this woman? Just trying to figure out if the woman who went flying is in fact Heather Heyer or another woman.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4a0_...541&comments=1

----------


## dannno

> Black pants, green shirt...


Gotta love the fed in the periscope comments..

"Are you proud?" "Is this what you wanted?"

......RIGHT after the crash

----------


## Southron

Is this Heather Heyer?

----------


## PursuePeace

> The mother said "instantly", but that is not reflected by video after the accident. She was sitting up after being pulled off the car. I'd chalk the "instantly" claim by the mother up to a something probably told to her to make her feel better, and she wants to believe it.
> 
> It will come out eventually at trial. Video of her sitting up after the accident will make prosecution even more difficult. Absent any other major injuries, the defense could claim that she died of a heart attack after the crash. Obviously she wouldn't be dead without the crash occurring, but this could effect prosecution.


I don't think that's Heather Heyer (the one in the green shirt who went over the hood of the car.)
I _think_ Heather was the one who was having CPR performed on her. She was in all black and had a braid in her hair?
Not positive.

----------


## devil21

The minivan was staged at the intersection location for 5 minutes.  Footage was captured of a fat woman (possibly Heyer herself, dunno) sitting in the minivan driver's seat doing nothing then exiting the van a minute before the impact.  Collision was 100% planned.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> The minivan was staged at the intersection location for 5 minutes.  Footage was captured of a fat woman (possibly Heyer herself, dunno) sitting in the minivan driver's seat doing nothing then exiting the van a minute before the impact.  Collision was 100% planned.


Yeah, I've seen those videos. IMHO, the people in the van were there to gawk at the protest.

The van being there for a while is not proof of anything in particular.

----------


## dannno

> Yeah, I've seen those videos. IMHO, the people in the van were there to gawk at the protest.
> 
> The van being there for a while is not proof of anything in particular.


Why didn't they park on the curb?

----------


## Southron

Has anyone seen any videos or pictures showing Heyer in the green top that day prior to the crash? Everything I have seen is like the picture I posted above.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Why didn't they park on the curb?


You'd have to ask the driver. Maybe there was no parking at the curb at the end of the street. People double park or stop in the road all the time, for their personal convenience. Maybe she wanted to stop traffic on that street for the benefit of the protesters.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Is this Heather Heyer?


She looks older and heavier, but you never know. The media and officials haven't made it very clear. 

Should come out at trial time.

----------


## dannno

> You'd have to ask the driver. Maybe there was no parking at the curb at the end of the street. People double park or stop in the road all the time, for their personal convenience. Maybe she wanted to stop traffic on that street for the benefit of the protesters.


No, there was room to park. There were cars going around them to their right, where they should have been parked, not many, but at least one or two and the black truck was trying to go around them when the crowd got too thick and they got stuck. But it was completely clear to go, they were in the middle of the cross walk, 5 minutes earlier.. It made no sense. The only thing I could figure is their car broke down.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

You know what I find curious ?

Brennan Gilmore . . . the guy whos video was posted up all across MSM and who seemingly was the poster boy for Charlottesville.

What he worked for, the State Department ? 

And also Governors right hand man leading up to his election ?

And according to the reports that were not scrubbed the day of the "event" show his role in Africa was instigating strife between Muslim and Christians .

----------


## Raginfridus

> I don't think that's Heather Heyer (the one in the green shirt who went over the hood of the car.)
> I _think_ Heather was the one who was having CPR performed on her. She was in all black and had a braid in her hair?
> Not positive.


Usually when there's a manslaughter or homicide - death of any kind, really - the media gobble up any pictures they can, as a way of pleading for our attention. I don't ever watch the news, but I haven't read a single article describing her, nor seen any photos of Heather Heyer, and if there's simple disagreement over her appearance a month later, then this $#@!-story's likely phony. Phony like all the outrage, phony like all the groups involved, phony as American media itself. I can understand why cable news won't broadcast Heather - she looks like a beached whale, and the media want beautiful martyrs - but that's no issue for print and online articles.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> If it was a setup, it sure as hell was complicated. First they had to get Jason Kessler to work undercover to form a bogus Unite the Right movement. Then they had to put out ads in Charlotte (not Charlottesville) to hire actors? Then the mayor of Charlottesville denied the request to have the protest which makes no sense since he was supposed to be in on the conspiracy. So then they would've had to pay off the judge to overrule the mayor. Then they got the mayor to instruct the police to have the two sides merge together which is risky because it could've easily been an Antifa attacking an Alt Right guy and backfiring. That means the police chief was probably in on it also. Then they had to get a driver which means they had to find someone who was willing to get the death penalty or get life in prison. Not sure why they would've had the flagpole guy hit the car in advance, seems like taking a big chance on self defense. Why didn't the driver just zoom down the street and kill a bunch of people?
> 
> Why stage an incredibly complicated setup, exposing yourself to all kinds of leaks, since lots of people would have to be in on it, for such a risky minimal payoff? 
> 
> If they could get one guy for a suicide mission all they need to do was have him march with the Alt Right, take out a gun and shoot a bunch of counter protesters. That would be orders of magnitude more efficient than that cockamamie conspiracy theory.


Indeed

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> Usually when there's a manslaughter or homicide - death of any kind, really - the media gobble up any pictures they can, as a way of pleading for our attention. I don't ever watch the news, but I haven't read a single article describing her, nor seen any photos of Heather Heyer, and if there's simple disagreement over her appearance a month later, then this $#@!-story's likely phony. Phony like all the outrage, phony like all the groups involved, phony as American media itself. I can understand why cable news won't broadcast Heather - she looks like a beached whale, and the media want beautiful martyrs - but that's no issue for print and online articles.


And what about the officers that supposedly died in chopper crash, no follow up story ?

Seriously something is $#@!ed with this whole thing. . .

----------


## PursuePeace

What about the people who hit the car with bats/whatever?
When he put the car in reverse... it was right after someone came up to the passenger side and started beating the window with a bat.
Then right after putting it in reverse, someone busted his rear window. That thing went right through the window, seems like it may have been a metal pipe, maybe?

Where are those people? 
Have they been investigated, I wonder.

----------


## Raginfridus

> Where are those people? 
> Have they been investigated, I wonder.






*just say'n...*

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

" more to the picture, than meets the eye. "

thanks to Neil Young for the on-topic bump

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

so, could this completely shoddy storyline and lack of comprehensive coverage be due to their unpreparedness ?

what if they were expecting a much bigger story, namely a group of open-carry folks firing on people that were attacking them ?

could tptb have been banking on gun confiscation to prevent a race war that they tried to instigate ?

----------


## Madison320

> What about the people who hit the car with bats/whatever?
> When he put the car in reverse... it was right after someone came up to the passenger side and started beating the window with a bat.
> Then right after putting it in reverse, someone busted his rear window. That thing went right through the window, seems like it may have been a metal pipe, maybe?
> 
> Where are those people? 
> Have they been investigated, I wonder.


Just to set the record straight I think the idea that this was a big setup conspiracy is a bunch of silly crap. However, the actual murder case is very interesting to me. The amazing thing to me is that the initial hearing for the trial got delayed until Dec. 15 and even that information was almost impossible for me to find. I had to search the local Charlottesville news to find it. So the driver is stuck in jail, basically a political prisoner, until the trial, which appears to be at least 5 or 6 months away.

----------


## PursuePeace

> Just to set the record straight I think the idea that this was a big setup conspiracy is a bunch of silly crap. However, the actual murder case is very interesting to me. The amazing thing to me is that the initial hearing for the trial got delayed until Dec. 15 and even that information was almost impossible for me to find. I had to search the local Charlottesville news to find it. So the driver is stuck in jail, basically a political prisoner, until the trial, which appears to be at least 5 or 6 months away.


 I'd just like to know more details. What happened after he reversed and got out of there? Did he keep going? Did the police chase him down? Did he stop or did he run? Because I'm not seeing how he can be charged with hit-and-run if he were fleeing an angry mob bent on harming him. This whole thing is just a huge mess.  So many questions.

----------


## PursuePeace

> She looks older and heavier, but you never know. The media and officials haven't made it very clear. 
> 
> Should come out at trial time.


Pretty sure that's her.

Fast Forward to about 5:25.
You see her friends, as well. (The guy and his fiancee that have been interviewed several times.)

----------


## Madison320

> I'd just like to know more details. What happened after he reversed and got out of there? Did he keep going? Did the police chase him down? Did he stop or did he run? Because I'm not seeing how he can be charged with hit-and-run if he were fleeing an angry mob bent on harming him. This whole thing is just a huge mess.  So many questions.


I agree. The media spent about .00001% of it's time on the details of the case and 99.99999% of it's time on the Trump Angle.

----------


## PursuePeace

> I agree. The media spent about .00001% of it's time on the details of the case and 99.99999% of it's time on the Trump Angle.


Exactly. 

What are the facts? Instead we get emotion, propaganda and division. (as always.)

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Pretty sure that's her.
> 
> Fast Forward to about 5:25.
> You see her friends, as well. (The guy and his fiancee that have been interviewed several times.)


If that is her, and she was not touched by the cars at all but just died of a heart attack, they won't be able to make any form of murder charge stick.

----------


## Jamesiv1

> Just to set the record straight I think the idea that this was a big setup conspiracy is a bunch of silly crap. However, the actual murder case is very interesting to me. The amazing thing to me is that the initial hearing for the trial got delayed until Dec. 15 and even that information was almost impossible for me to find. I had to search the local Charlottesville news to find it. So the driver is stuck in jail, basically a political prisoner, until the trial, which appears to be at least 5 or 6 months away.


Too many shenanigans to deny.

Even if you discount it 50% that is still a lot of shenanigans.

----------


## Southron

Why has the trial been pushed back so far? So they can create evidence?

----------


## Madison320

> Why has the trial been pushed back so far? So they can create evidence?


My guess is they know he may be acquitted and they want to wait until people forget about it.

----------


## Madison320

> Too many shenanigans to deny.
> 
> Even if you discount it 50% that is still a lot of shenanigans.


How do you know it wasn't the alt right setting it up to make it look like an alt left setup.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> How do you know it wasn't the alt right setting it up to make it look like an alt left setup.

----------


## Madison320

> 


Perfect!

----------


## dannno

*Heather Heyer Died of a Heart Attack*

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/09/05/heather-heyer-died-of-a-heart-attack/

----------


## dannno

> If that is her, and she was not touched by the cars at all but just died of a heart attack, they won't be able to make any form of murder charge stick.


According to witnesses she had a leg injury.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> According to witnesses she had a leg injury.


That still won't float a murder charge unless they can establish intent for an attempted murder charge.

----------


## Danke

Surprised we haven't heard from AF yet.

----------


## Krugminator2

I never thought I would enjoy something more than watching the hippies get water cannoned protesting that Dakota Pipeline. Watching people drive through protesters tops it though. These are great. All completely legal. You have the right to defend yourself against a mob.

----------


## Ender

This link has the latest picture I could find of her:

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/08/woman...s-a-paralegal/

Doesn't look much like the pictures above.

----------


## dannno

> This link has the latest picture I could find of her:
> 
> http://abovethelaw.com/2017/08/woman...s-a-paralegal/
> 
> Doesn't look much like the pictures above.


Ya, her hair is red.

----------


## devil21

The 'signs' are there that it was a staged event, if you know what to look for.  This widely msm circulated image is heavily photoshopped.

----------


## Weston White

> Who's funding Antifa, anybody good looking hard into that?


I have been investigating this since the beginning and have concluded the culprit to be none other than the notorious and irredeemable Prison Mike:

----------


## PursuePeace

I'm more interested in the legal aspects of this case, mainly with what this guy is going to be charged with and what the evidence will be etc, but I found this bit of info a little surprising (eerie/odd). Coincidental, but just wow.... also I did find it a tiny bit weird that she didn't know the year her mom was born? But maybe that is more normal than I think.


*4 minutes, 26 seconds...*
sorry couldn't get it to embed at that spot:

----------


## dannno

> I'm more interested in the legal aspects of this case, mainly with what this guy is going to be charged with and what the evidence will be etc, but I found this bit of info a little surprising (eerie/odd). Coincidental, but just wow.... also I did find it a tiny bit weird that she didn't know the year her mom was born? But maybe that is more normal than I think.
> 
> 
> *4 minutes, 26 seconds...*
> sorry couldn't get it to embed at that spot:


She signed up for life insurance policy right before the attack?

----------


## Southron

> This link has the latest picture I could find of her:
> 
> http://abovethelaw.com/2017/08/woman...s-a-paralegal/
> 
> Doesn't look much like the pictures above.


https://www.thecut.com/2017/08/what-...eyer-knew.html

This article claims she was wearing a black shirt and pants and had braided hair.

 just the lack of photos of her makes me think that most of them are not flattering. I can't imagine the media not posting her pictures everywhere if it would have fit their agenda.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> *Heather Heyer Died of a Heart Attack*
> 
> http://www.occidentaldissent.com/201...-heart-attack/


Occidental Dissent huh?

...from its founder and owner, Bradley Griffin:




> After 9/11, I found Pat Buchanan and shortly thereafter I found Stormfront, which was still then in its infancy. If memory serves, I found it either through word of mouth on a gaming message board or through searching online for Pat Buchanan. I became an active poster on Stormfront for a few years. What I took away from Stormfront was an interest in White Nationalism and the idea of setting up a vBulletin forum.  
> 
>  ...
> 
>  How should I describe this world to an outsider? I suppose you could say that it was the fringe of White Nationalism. It was an archipelago of vBulletin messageboards that radiated out from Stormfront. The Phora, for example, begat Aryan Dawn which developed into Pantheon Europa which evolved into Skadi Forum which split into Ave-Melita, The Nordish Portal, Blut und Boden, Stirpes, Großdeutsches Vaterland, etc., etc. That was just one offshoot of The Phora which wasn’t a “hate group” so much as it was a debating society. There were many others like the Speakeasy, Stumble Inn, The Beer Barrel, Salo Forum. There were all kinds of small, niche forums that catered to an ever widening audience for White and European identity politics  
> 
>  ...
> 
>  As for politics, I loved reading Pat Buchanan, Peter Brimelow, Jared Taylor and Sam Francis. I discovered American Renaissance and VDARE shortly after finding Stormfront. I found William Pierce and the National Alliance. I never joined the group, but I enjoyed listening to the old man’s radio shows.


 occidentaldissentDOTcom/2016/12/15/my-alt-right-biography/

 A little background on William Piece and the National Alliance:




> His tenure as assistant professor at Oregon State University (1962–1965) coincided with the rise of two social movements, the Civil Rights Movement and the Anti-Vietnam War movement, which he regarded as Jewish-led, communist-inspired, and a threat to European Americans. He was briefly a member of the anti-communist John Birch Society in 1962,[20] but eventually resigned. In 1965, in order to finance his political ambitions, Pierce left his tenure at Oregon State University and relocated to North Haven, Connecticut, to work as a senior researcher at the Advanced Materials Research and Development Laboratory of aerospace manufacturer Pratt & Whitney.[13] In 1966, moved to the Washington, D.C. and became an associate of George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party. During this time he was the editor of the party's ideological journal, _National Socialist World_. When Rockwell was assassinated in 1967, Pierce became one of the leading members of the National Socialist White People's Party, the successor to the ANP. In 1968, Pierce left the NSWPP and joined Youth for Wallace, an organization supporting former Governor of Alabama George Wallace's bid for the presidency.[18] In 1970, along with Willis Carto, he reconfigured Youth for Wallace into the National Youth Alliance.


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Luther_Pierce

----------


## Swordsmyth

This is the only appropriate commentary on this subject: Both cups are poisoned, don't choose either one, walk away and stop wasting your time on this subject.




>

----------


## dannno

> This link has the latest picture I could find of her:
> 
> http://abovethelaw.com/2017/08/woman...s-a-paralegal/
> 
> Doesn't look much like the pictures above.





> Occidental Dissent huh?
> 
> ...from its founder and owner, Bradley Griffin:
> 
> 
> 
>  occidentaldissentDOTcom/2016/12/15/my-alt-right-biography/
> 
>  A little background on William Piece and the National Alliance:
> ...


What the $#@! does that have to do with ANYTHING? 

The article has a bunch of videos and evidence and a description of what is in it, he just compiled it, why can't people look at the evidence for themselves? 

Why do you try to disprove actual real evidence by discussing the views of the person who compiled it? That doesn't make any logical sense.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> What the $#@! does that have to do with ANYTHING?


It's prophylaxis, to ensure that - when someone links Occidental Dissent - people know what they're reading. 

As for this little NAZI murder event, it's been settled.

----------


## Madison320

> As for this little NAZI murder event, it's been settled.


You mean the driver ramming case?

----------


## Madison320

> This is the only appropriate commentary on this subject: Both cups are poisoned, don't choose either one, walk away and stop wasting your time on this subject.


 
I agree at least for the complicated conspiracy angle. But what about the actual case on a very basic level? The video, even shown on CNN, show the driver's car being struck and it appears to almost certainly be before he hit the gas. I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty but to any unbiased observer it sure looks like there're questions about his guilt.

----------


## Raginfridus

> I have been investigating this since the beginning and have concluded the culprit to be none other than the notorious and irredeemable Prison Mike:


Old News. We've since learned Dat Boi



financed Prison Mike.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I agree at least for the complicated conspiracy angle. But what about the actual case on a very basic level? The video, even shown on CNN, show the driver's car being struck and it appears to almost certainly be before he hit the gas. I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty but to any unbiased observer it sure looks like there're questions about his guilt.


If this is all a setup it doesn't matter, nobody will really be punished.
If this was real then the defendant, his friends, family and lawyers can handle his defense, if there is an unjust outcome then if you want you can get involved with petitions and protests, until then you are letting THEM waste your time.

----------


## Madison320

> If this is all a setup it doesn't matter, nobody will really be punished.
> If this was real then the defendant, his friends, family and lawyers can handle his defense, if there is an unjust outcome then if you want you can get involved with petitions and protests, until then you are letting THEM waste your time.


There's the entertainment value!

----------


## Swordsmyth

> There's the entertainment value!


To each his own.

----------


## PursuePeace

> If this is all a setup it doesn't matter, nobody will really be punished.
> If this was real then the defendant, his friends, family and lawyers can handle his defense, if there is an unjust outcome then if you want you can get involved with petitions and protests, until then you are letting THEM waste your time.


Why are you wasting your time arguing over whether other people are wasting their time.. lol.

Personally, I'm interested in legal cases. (not conspiracies). Especially legal cases where the charges are questionable based on circumstances and sensationalism, which is what is happening with this case. Seems to me, a lot of people have already judged him and are ready to send him to the executioners. When I see that kind of thing happen, I get interested and seek to find the truth. 

I never think it is a waste of time to seek truth in a topic that interests you for whatever reason.
Seeking truth, no matter the subject, sharpens your truthseeking skills.

peace to ya...

----------


## dannno

> Why are you wasting your time arguing over whether other people are wasting their time.. lol.
> 
> Personally, I'm interested in legal cases. (not conspiracies). Especially legal cases where the charges are questionable based on circumstances and sensationalism, which is what is happening with this case. Seems to me, a lot of people have already judged him and are ready to send him to the executioners. When I see that kind of thing happen, I get interested and seek to find the truth. 
> 
> I never think it is a waste of time to seek truth in a topic that interests you for whatever reason.
> Seeking truth, no matter the subject, sharpens your truthseeking skills.
> 
> peace to ya...


That's the truth.

----------


## dannno

Interestingly, the following story doesn't even mention that Heather Heyer's mom is the one who made the claim she died of a heart attack. It does not seek to disprove that Heather Heyer died of a heart attack. All it does is talk about what horrible people white supremacists are for making the suggestion..*

*

*Alt-righters pushing horrid theory Heather Heyer died of weight-related heart attack*


http://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/alt-...-heart-attack/

----------


## Southron

It just shows the state of the media in this country that you have to turn to Alt-right blogs to find *any* information on what happened to Heather Heyer or even who she is. 

By the way Brad Griffin was actually at Charlottesville with his wife.  I was right there with them when we got forced out of the park by the state police.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

Wasn't one of the cars in that parked line registered to a Johnny Chandler of C'ville ?

If true, can anyone confirm he visited Obombers White House several times ?

----------


## TheCount

> What the $#@! does that have to do with ANYTHING? 
> 
> The article has a bunch of videos and evidence and a description of what is in it, he just compiled it, why can't people look at the evidence for themselves?


Now the source of the news doesn't matter?  When did that change for you? 




> *Why do you try to disprove actual real evidence by discussing the views of the person who compiled it? That doesn't make any logical sense.*


Can't tell if unintentionally or intentionally hilarious.  Either way, hilarious.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

^^
^^
bump

----------


## RonPaulMall

Amazingly detailed reconstruction of Heather Heyer's final moments using video feeds from various media sources reveals why there has been complete radio silence from the MSM about this case. Not even sure this case is going to go to trial at this point:

You need the Tor browser to view this link because the Globalists have censored this website from the normie web:

http://dstormer6em3i4km.onion/charlo...ers-movements/

----------


## dannno

> Now the source of the news doesn't matter?  When did that change for you?


Because the NYT and CNN usually just says a bunch of horse$#@! made up by deep state tools sorta like what you do, whereas the site I linked to had a compilation of actual original documentation of the incident. 





> Can't tell if unintentionally or intentionally hilarious.  Either way, hilarious.


Can you explain why it is funny?

----------


## Ender

> Because the NYT and CNN usually just says a bunch of horse$#@! made up by deep state tools sorta like what you do, whereas the site I linked to had a compilation of actual original documentation of the incident. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain why it is funny?


Come on dannno- people who question the favored narrative here are ALWAYS called out for the news source, no matter what the evidence shows in an article. 

I have been several times, even when it was an "accepted" source, if it didn't fit some forum member's narrative. 

If a Trump-lover posts, it doesn't matter what the source; if a Trump-questioner posts, they are always called out for the source, no matter who/what it is- even if it's Ron Paul.

----------


## dannno

> Come on dannno- people who question the favored narrative here are ALWAYS called out for the news source, no matter what the evidence shows in an article.


Even if the evidence is paid for by George Soros

----------


## dannno

So in discussing this topic on a different site, apparently the reason this guy isn't getting a speedy trial is because....... wait for it......... capitalism  Speedy trials aren't as profitable...

----------


## Valli6

James Alex Fields - I'd totally forgotten the name. 

When does this guy's trial happen? Must be soon, but I can't find ANY info on it. 
Google apparently censoring info because an advanced search of his name only links to old stories from last summer even though I specify I want links within the last month or week.

Even _StartPage_ advanced search offers few recent links about Charlottesville. Did find the following:

_Oct 16, 2017_



> The Central District Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Richmond has released the cause of death for the woman killed in the August 12 car attack following the Unite the Right Rally in downtown Charlottesville.
> 
> According to our partners at the _Daily Progress_, the *medical examiner ruled her death to be due to blunt force injury*.
> 
> Heather Heyer was one of dozens who was injured after police say James Alex Fields Jr. of Ohio rammed a car into a crowd of pedestrians gathered at the intersection of 4th and Water streets.
> 
> Fields is facing charges of second-degree murder as well as multiple counts of malicious wounding.
> He is being held at the Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail.
> http://www.nbc29.com/story/36610772/...t-force-injury


_Oct. 23, 2017_



> *10 suspects wanted in assault day of Charlottesville rally*
> 
> CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) — Charlottesville police are searching for 10 suspects wanted in connection with an assault in downtown on the day a white nationalist rally erupted in violence.
> 
> Police issued a news release Monday asking for the public’s assistance identifying two female and eight male suspects.
> 
> Det. Brady Kirby says *an adult* reported being assaulted Aug. 12, the day the “Unite the Right” rally erupted into chaos and violent confrontations between attendees and counter-protesters.
> 
> Kirby says *police have video* of the incident. He says it shows the *victim being assaulted “in one way or another” over several minutes*. Police released photos of the suspects taken from video.
> ...



_Thu 12:04 PM, Nov 09, 2017_ *Cantwell - two of three charges dropped*



> ALBEMARLE COUNTY, Va. (CBS19 NEWS) -- The white nationalist who was facing three felony charges stemming from the August 11 torch rally on the University of Virginia Grounds is now facing only one charge.
> 
> *Christopher Cantwell* was i*nitially charged with illegal use of a gas, illegal use of a gas with malice, and unlawful injury by means of a toxic substance.*
> 
> After a six-hour preliminary hearing that included testimony from Cantwell's two accusers and Cantwell himself, *Judge William Barkley dismissed the bodily injury and malicious use of gas charges. He cited a change in witness testimony and a lack of evidence showing that Cantwell acted with malice…
> *
> …The *single charge will now be sent to a grand jury*. Cantwell remains at the Albemarle Charlottesville Regional Jail.
> 
> http://www.newsplex.com/content/news...456403683.html

----------


## Madison320

> James Alex Fields - I'd totally forgotten the name. 
> 
> When does this guy's trial happen? Must be soon, but I can't find ANY info on it. 
> Google apparently censoring info because an advanced search of his name only links to old stories from last summer even though I specify I want links within the last month or week.
> 
> Even _StartPage_ advanced search offers few recent links about Charlottesville. Did find the following:
> 
> _Oct 16, 2017_
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've been following this story also and it's really weird. The last article I found was on the local news site a couple weeks after the incident. The article said his next court date was rescheduled to Dec 15. And that's been it. Not a peep anywhere after that.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> Yeah, I've been following this story also and it's really weird. The last article I found was on the local news site a couple weeks after the incident. The article said his next court date was rescheduled to Dec 15. And that's been it. Not a peep anywhere after that.


and down the memory hole it goes.  Make you wonder about the brain cells in humans these days.  We don't have any memory to speak of.  Our "logic" centers seem to be completely haywire.  Maybe it's been the flouride all along...

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> Historically the socialists and nationalists have worked together


If this is factual, history is just full of mind boggling things.

Had read somewhere during Iraqi freedom   that historically US gov and extremist violent Jihadis had worked together.

----------


## devil21

> Yeah, I've been following this story also and it's really weird. The last article I found was on the local news site a couple weeks after the incident. The article said his next court date was rescheduled to Dec 15. And that's been it. Not a peep anywhere after that.





> and down the memory hole it goes.  Make you wonder about the brain cells in humans these days.  We don't have any memory to speak of.  Our "logic" centers seem to be completely haywire.  Maybe it's been the flouride all along...


According to VA courts online website, Fields case is currently in Charlottesville District Court, next court date is *Dec 14 1pm*, presumably for a preliminary/evidentiary hearing.  It's been continued a few times, hence why no news.  His court appointed attorney, Denise Lunsford has an interesting and rather sordid history.  The 14th is also the day before fed.gov runs up against the debt ceiling again (15th)...

(eta:  for some reason the debt ceiling date is being reported as Dec 8th.  It definitely was the 15th before.  Not sure why the change.)

----------


## Valli6

INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF THE 2017 PROTEST EVENTS IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA
Download Report: http://www.charlottesville.org/home/...ument?id=59615




> On December 1, 2017, former US Attorney *Timothy Heaphy* and his team released the final report of the _Independent Review of the 2017 Protest Events in Charlottesville, Virginia._ It is available by clicking here, on the website of Mr. Heaphy's law firm, Hunton & Williams and at the independent review website established by the review team.
> http://www.charlottesville.org/home





> Timothy J. Heaphy (born 1964) is a white-collar criminal defense attorney, law professor and a former United States Attorney for the _Western District of Virginia_... Appointed by Barack Obama...  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...othy_J._Heaphy


James Alex Fields' trial coming up soon.

_update:_ Apparently there was a press conference about this yesterday, Friday Dec 1 - but I haven't found the video.

Video snippet of press conference:



> *Investigator: Some officials resisted Charlottesville review*
> CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) — An independent report that found serious police and government failures in responding to violence at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville this... 
> 
> ...Heaphy's report was sharply critical of Thomas' response as the violence began to escalate that day.
> 
> According to the report, as brawling first broke out, Thomas said, *"Let them fight, it will make it easier to declare an unlawful assembly.*"
> 
> *Thomas did not recall making that statement, which was cited in accounts by two other police employees*, though he confirmed he waited to "see how things played out" before declaring an unlawful assembly, the report said.
> 
> ...


Some reports:











deleted some incorrect info

----------


## Valli6

A little clarification on some issues.




> *Charlottesville Cops Pulled Squad Car From Intersection Used By James Fields After Officer Said She Felt ‘Unsafe’*
> PETER HASSON - Associate Editor -12/01/2017
> 
> ...“In the face of the Market Street skirmishes that broke out after the unlawful-assembly declaration, Officer Shiflett felt unsafe and radioed for assistance. She was soon reassigned, and she moved her vehicle away from that intersection,” the report states.
> 
> *“After Officer Shiflett departed, all that remained at that crucial intersection was a wooden sawhorse barricade. Lieutenant Steve Knick, the traffic supervisor, was not aware that Officer Shiflett had been reassigned. No one in the Command Center thought to replace Officer Shiflett with other officers, or install any additional barricades.* The lack of protection of that intersection left it vulnerable to vehicle traffic southbound on 4th Street, across the Downtown Mall,” it continues.
> 
> “The *sawhorse barricade blocking 4th Street was moved by unknown persons*, and several vehicles were able to travel southbound across the Downtown Mall. James Fields exploited this vulnerability when he drove his Dodge Challenger southbound along 4th Street into a crowd of counter-protesters, causing the death of Heather Heyer.”...
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/01/ch...e-felt-unsafe/





> *Report: ‘Counter-Protester’ Started Infamous Charlottesville Parking Garage Fight*
> LIAM CLANCY - Media Reporter - 12/01/2017
> 
> A new independent report released Friday claims that it was a counter-protester, not white nationalists, who started the parking garage fight at the Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville, Va., in which a black man, Deandre Harris, was severely beaten.
> 
> According to the report, review of the “open source video footage” of the parking garage confrontation shows that *“a counter-protester attempted to yank a flag away from a Unite The Right demonstrator who resisted and fought back*… During that struggle, a second counter-protester named *Deandre Harris rushed in and used a club—possibly a Maglite flashlight—to strike the Alt-Right demonstrator’s head or shoulder.*”
> 
> The report notes that *Harris was then pushed to the ground when the group of white nationalists began to fight back*, “which left him defenseless against a mob of angry Alt-Right demonstrators that descended upon him with flagsticks, shields, and pieces of wood.” ...
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/01/re...g-garage-fight


Officer Tammy $#@!lett:
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/lo...63f800133.html

----------


## sparebulb

I thought Officer Shiflett was the d1ckhead cop from Newhart.

I didn't like his character because he acted like a real cop.

----------


## Valli6

_for the sake of accuracy:_

James Alex Fields' preliminary hearing is *December 14th* at *1:00 PM*, next Thursday at Charlottesville Circuit Court.
http://www.newsleader.com/story/news...ect/598190001/
http://www.newsplex.com/content/news...461526453.html

The charges include:

- second-degree murder
- two counts of malicious wounding
- three counts of aggravated malicious wounding
- three counts malicious wounding & failure to stop for an accident causing death



> ..."Attached is the motion to continue in the matter of Commonwealth of Virginia v. James Fields, Jr.  Per this motion, there will be no hearing tomorrow, the hearing has been set for December 14, 2017," read a release from Miriam Dickler...
> 
> http://www.newsleader.com/story/news...pect/598190001

----------


## Madison320

> Charlottesville Cops Pulled Squad Car From Intersection Used By James Fields After Officer Said She Felt Unsafe


If she felt unsafe maybe James Fields felt unsafe after his car was struck?

----------


## RonPaulMall

> If she felt unsafe maybe James Fields felt unsafe after his car was struck?


 Yeah, and how insane is the "failure to stop" charge? Was he expected to stop in the middle of the mob after the accident and get torn to shreds? He drove of to a save distance and then pulled over and waited for authorities. To hit him with an additional charge for that demonstrates the bad faith of the Prosecution.

----------


## Valli6

> If she felt unsafe maybe James Fields felt unsafe after his car was struck?





> Yeah, and how insane is the "failure to stop" charge? Was he expected to stop in the middle of the mob after the accident and get torn to shreds? He drove of to a save distance and then pulled over and waited for authorities. To hit him with an additional charge for that demonstrates the bad faith of the Prosecution.


Exactly. I'm no lawyer, but it's hard to believe they can do anything other than drop all these charges. Then they'll have another riot on their hands.

- second-degree murder
- two counts of malicious wounding
- three counts of aggravated malicious wounding
- three counts malicious wounding & failure to stop for an accident causing death

----------


## Madison320

> Exactly. I'm no lawyer, but it's hard to believe they can do anything other than drop all these charges. Then they'll have another riot on their hands.
> 
> - second-degree murder
> - two counts of malicious wounding
> - three counts of aggravated malicious wounding
> - three counts malicious wounding & failure to stop for an accident causing death


Yeah, I think that's why they delayed the trial for so long. So people would forget about it. I'm guessing the prosecutors are desperately hoping Fields will quietly plead guilty to a lesser offense and maybe do 6 months in jail or something. I have a feeling the last thing they want is for this to go to trial.

----------


## RJB

If his lawyer has a half a brain, Fields will walk.  It will just cost a few tens of thousands of dollars in lawyers fees to be granted justice.

----------


## Madison320

> _for the sake of accuracy:_
> 
> James Alex Fields' preliminary hearing is *December 14th* at *1:00 PM*, next Thursday at Charlottesville Circuit Court.
> http://www.newsleader.com/story/news...ect/598190001/
> http://www.newsplex.com/content/news...461526453.html
> 
> The charges include:
> 
> - second-degree murder
> ...


The hearing is tomorrow. Some news came out finally:

http://www.nbc12.com/story/37059592/...urt-appearance

This was interesting. Apparently the antifa don't want to appear in court as witnesses. I would think if you're going to refuse to testify you can't blame the state for not convicting the driver.


http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/lo...3961fa529.html

----------


## dannno

> The hearing is tomorrow. Some news came out finally:
> 
> http://www.nbc12.com/story/37059592/...urt-appearance
> 
> This was interesting. Apparently the antifa don't want to appear in court as witnesses. I would think if you're going to refuse to testify you can't blame the state for not convicting the driver.
> 
> 
> http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/lo...3961fa529.html






> A blogpost from the anti-fascism website It's Going Down referenced in flyers promoting Wednesday’s protest, says people should be wary of trusting federal prosecutors.“The same law enforcement who rely on the violence and white supremacy of the state can never be relied upon to serve justice against white supremacists. It is vital to look at this situation from this perspective,” the blog post says.
> 
> It goes on to say that non-cooperation is the “strongest and safest option” for activists. “We want to acknowledge that all of us deeply wish to see justice for Heather Heyer. We want to see justice for those injured by James Fields and other white supremacists on Aug. 11 and 12. But, how can we ever trust the state to deliver that to us?”




O.....k......





> We've been burned by torches, pepper-sprayed and run over.”


They burned them with the torches??

----------


## Madison320

> O.....k......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They burned them with the torches??[/COLOR]
> [/FONT][/COLOR]


I'm guessing they don't want to explain whacking the car with pipes and bats.

----------


## Raginfridus

> They burned them with the torches??


Yeah, all 6 million died.

----------


## Madison320

They changed it from 2nd degree to 1st degree murder. I hope this goes to trial. I'd like to hear the evidence, especially Field's testimony.

http://wtvr.com/2017/12/14/james-fie...-car-attack-1/

This is such a bizarre case. Video evidence looks like his car was struck before he accelerated into the crowd. The US President declares him guilty on national TV. His case gets delayed for 4 months and he's denied bail. The judge reassigns him a new public defender, one with a shady past. There's absolutely zero information that came out during those 4 months, which is really weird for such a high profile case. All the other cases like this had huge stories every day on the national news.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> They changed it from 2nd degree to 1st degree murder. I hope this goes to trial. I'd like to hear the evidence, especially Field's testimony.
> 
> http://wtvr.com/2017/12/14/james-fie...-car-attack-1/


I think they are inflating the charges so he can't possibly be found guilty, then they will whip up riots when he goes free.

----------


## dannno

> They changed it from 2nd degree to 1st degree murder. I hope this goes to trial. I'd like to hear the evidence, especially Field's testimony.
> 
> http://wtvr.com/2017/12/14/james-fie...-car-attack-1/



Sounds like we were right from the beginning, he was literally scared $#@!less that Antifa was going to attack and kill him with bats before he ever drove down the street. 




> Details released in court were that Fields soiled himself at some point during the attack. During cross examination, it was revealed that Fields asked how the people were that he hit and cried when he heard Heyer died.

----------


## RJB

> They changed it from 2nd degree to 1st degree murder. I hope this goes to trial. I'd like to hear the evidence, especially Field's testimony.
> 
> http://wtvr.com/2017/12/14/james-fie...-car-attack-1/


. Wow.  Unless he told the cops that was his plan when they first arrested him, that's gonna be hard to prove.  It will be interesting how this unfolds.  

A higher murder charge also means more money for the defense attorney.  They could just be milking it for all it is worth.

I knew someone charged with 2nd degree murder for shooting a home invader.  The attorney charged him $12,000 if it was dismissed and $24,000 if it went to a jury trial.  A cynical old man said pay him 24 regardless and that way it will get dismissed.  Everyone laughed at the old man because it was so obvious that it should have been dismissed.

The cynical old man turned out to be correct.  Now I am in my 40s but my thoughts are already those of a cynical old fart.

----------


## Madison320

> I think they are inflating the charges so he can't possibly be found guilty, then they will whip up riots when he goes free.


My guess is that they're trying to scare him into a plea bargain. I seriously doubt the prosecution wants this going to trial.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> My guess is that they're trying to scare him into a plea bargain. I seriously doubt the prosecution wants this going to trial.


Either theory is possible but I think they want the national outrage trip for the SJWs.

----------


## Madison320

> Either theory is possible but I think they want the national outrage trip for the SJWs.


Getting more interesting:

"Fields maintained he feared for his life at the Downtown Mall crossing, and hit the accelerator in panic."


http://www.nbc29.com/story/37067522/...urt-12-14-2017

I'm confused about something. Shouldn't the news reports tell the evidence the state has to charge him with 1st degree murder or is it a secret?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Getting more interesting:
> 
> "Fields maintained he feared for his life at the Downtown Mall crossing, and hit the accelerator in panic."
> 
> 
> http://www.nbc29.com/story/37067522/...urt-12-14-2017
> 
> I'm confused about something. Shouldn't the news reports tell the evidence the state has to charge him with 1st degree murder or is it a secret?


I think they usually keep it secret so they can't be accused of tainting the jury pool.

----------


## Madison320

> I think they usually keep it secret so they can't be accused of tainting the jury pool.


I wonder when the next court date will be, next summer maybe?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I wonder when the next court date will be, next summer maybe?


I would guess they want to arrange it so they get peak outrage just in time for the mid-terms.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

99.9999999999% of prosecutors care about nothing but their conviction rate. 

It's _highly_ unlikely that the prosecutor is trying to do anything other than convict (or get a plea).

----------


## dannno

> 99.9999999999% of prosecutors care about nothing but their conviction rate. 
> 
> It's _highly_ unlikely that the prosecutor is trying to do anything other than convict (or get a plea).


That's kinda what I figured, until you said it, now I'm not so sure.

----------


## Madison320

> That's kinda what I figured, until you said it, now I'm not so sure.


One article said the only thing the defense attorney did was cross examine one witness. She asked the officer who arrested Fields what Field's reaction was when he was told he killed someone. That's it. No mention of the car being struck. That seems weird to me.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

Has the defendant testified (or is there word that he's planning to testify)?

----------


## Madison320

> Has the defendant testified (or is there word that he's planning to testify)?


"Fields maintained he feared for his life at the Downtown Mall crossing, and hit the accelerator in panic"


The judge certified the charge of hit and run? I'm not sure what the point was of the hearing today. That's obviously a bogus charge.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> "Fields maintained he feared for his life at the Downtown Mall crossing, and hit the accelerator in panic"
> 
> The judge certified the charge of hit and run? I'm not sure what the point was of the hearing today. That's obviously a bogus charge.


I haven't been following this at all...

So, the trial hasn't actually started, they're still in pre-trial hearings?

----------


## dannno

> I haven't been following this at all...
> 
> So, the trial hasn't actually started, they're still in pre-trial hearings?


Today was the first.. not very speedy, Gonzales.

----------


## specsaregood

> One article said the only thing the defense attorney did was cross examine one witness. She asked the officer who arrested Fields what Field's reaction was when he was told he killed someone. That's it. No mention of the car being struck. That seems weird to me.


One of the articles mentioned that his public defender attorney is related to one of the people he hit.  that seems weird to me.

----------


## Madison320

> I haven't been following this at all...
> 
> So, the trial hasn't actually started, they're still in pre-trial hearings?


The hearing previous to today's was in August.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

Okay, so Google tells me the trial hasn't started, hasn't even been an indictment yet.

I'll check back in when the Nazi *** is closer to his comeuppance.

----------


## angelatc

> I'm confused about something. Shouldn't the news reports tell the evidence the state has to charge him with 1st degree murder or is it a secret?


The defense has the right to see the evidence, but the public doesn't.

----------


## Madison320

> Okay, so Google tells me the trial hasn't started, hasn't even been an indictment yet.
> 
> I'll check back in when the Nazi *** is closer to his comeuppance.


We should just skip the trial and hang him for being a Nazi. /s

Ironically the Nazis and the BLMs should get along great, they have a lot in common. They're both socialists.

----------


## Valli6

Yesterday was a "preliminary hearing" and according to the memorandum:



> cases will be presented to a *regular grand jury* of the Charlottesville Circuit Court on *Monday, December 18, 2017* at *9:30 am*. Further proceedings will be scheduled at that time...


The charges are now:

1 felony count of hit and run
5 felony counts of malicious wounding
3 felony counts of aggravated malicious wounding and
1 felony count of first degree murder

----------


## Madison320

> The defense has the right to see the evidence, but the public doesn't.


That's sounds accurate, it's just that in other recent, highly controversial racial cases (Jena 6, Duke Lacrosse, Zimmerman, Michael Brown) it seemed like we were getting hourly updates on new evidence. This one is incredibly secretive.

----------


## CaptUSA

> 99.9999999999% of prosecutors care about nothing but their conviction rate. 
> 
> It's _highly_ unlikely that the prosecutor is trying to do anything other than convict (or get a plea).


Ummm...  Unless said prosecutor knows there's no way he's getting a conviction for murder in this case.

In that case, he has an incentive to raise the charges to 1st degree to make it seem as though he was trying to throw the book at the guy.  Then, he can blame the jury or his own over-zeal for the loss instead of the evidence.

----------


## Madison320

> Ummm...  Unless said prosecutor knows there's no way he's getting a conviction for murder in this case.
> 
> In that case, he has an incentive to raise the charges to 1st degree to make it seem as though he was trying to throw the book at the guy.  Then, he can blame the jury or his own over-zeal for the loss instead of the evidence.


I'm not sure the reason, but the media and prosecution have a really bad record in these cases. If you look at the evidence we've seen in this case objectively, you'd have to conclude there's a decent possibility he's innocent. I think anybody who is 100% positive he's innocent or guilty has some major bias either way.

----------


## Valli6

Police Chief Alfred Thomas resigned today.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.4e69b623f942




> *Charlottesville police chief resigns in wake of report on white supremacist rally*
> By Joe Heim December 18
> 
> Charlottesville Police Chief Alfred Thomas resigned abruptly Monday, just 17 days after the release of a report that was highly critical of the Police Departments handling of an August white supremacist rally that turned deadly in the Virginia city.
> 
> The 207-page report prepared by Timothy Heaphy, a former U.S. attorney for the Western District of Virginia, concluded that the Police Department was ill-prepared, lacked proper training and had a flawed plan for managing the Unite the Right rally that drew hundreds of neo-Nazis and white nationalists to Charlottesville on Aug. 12 and resulted in violent clashes with counterprotesters. The lack of adequate preparation led to disastrous results, Heaphy wrote.
> 
> *Thomas, an Air Force veteran who previously was chief of the Lexington, Va., Police Department, had led the Charlottesville agency only since May 2016. He was the citys first black police chief.*... _(more)_
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.4e69b623f942

----------


## phill4paul

> Police Chief Alfred Thomas resigned today.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.4e69b623f942


  Let's wait and see who is next employer is. Follow the money.

----------


## phill4paul

> Okay, so Google tells me the trial hasn't started, hasn't even been an indictment yet.
> 
> I'll check back in when the Nazi *** is closer to his comeuppance.


  Is he closer now? Has your programmed outrage been assuaged? No need for a trial. It's heads on pikes without trial!!!!

  You're about as close to a progressive as it comes.

----------


## Madison320

> Police Chief Alfred Thomas resigned today.


This can't be right. According to this the trial date is set for Nov 26! So he's already going to have sat in jail for a year and a half before the trial even starts????


http://www.newsplex.com/content/news...467899263.html

----------


## devil21

> 99.9999999999% of prosecutors care about nothing but their conviction rate. 
> 
> It's _highly_ unlikely that the prosecutor is trying to do anything other than convict (or get a plea).


Fun fact: Every case where a prosecutor does not secure any conviction, the costs of the case are paid by the prosecutor out of a trust fund they must maintain.  IOW, the prosecutor holds all of the financial liability of the case unless and until it can be transferred to you via a conviction.  This is why conviction rates, regardless of the level of charge (charge is a financial term!), is a prosecutor's priority.  They don't want to foot the bill for the case if they can't get you to pay the costs.

----------


## Madison320

According to this article he waived his right to a speedy trial. That makes more sense but it still seems weird that he would agree to stay in jail for a year and a half. Unless they let him out on bail, but I thought bail was denied.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/lo...ff49a1576.html

----------


## Madison320

> Fun fact: Every case where a prosecutor does not secure any conviction, the costs of the case are paid by the prosecutor out of a trust fund they must maintain.  IOW, the prosecutor holds all of the financial liability of the case unless and until it can be transferred to you via a conviction.  This is why conviction rates, regardless of the level of charge (charge is a financial term!), is a prosecutor's priority.  They don't want to foot the bill for the case if they can't get you to pay the costs.


I'm assuming that's only for criminal cases?

----------


## Valli6

> According to this article he waived his right to a speedy trial. That makes more sense but it still seems weird that he would agree to stay in jail for a year and a half. Unless they let him out on bail, but I thought bail was denied.
> 
> http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/lo...ff49a1576.html


Almost an entire year before the trial starts? Yeah, seems way too long. 
And why would he "waive his right to a speedy trial"? Are there any circumstances where that might make sense? 
Odd.

----------


## dannno

> Almost an entire year before the trial starts? Yeah, seems way too long. 
> And why would he "waive his right to a speedy trial"? Are there any circumstances where that might make sense? 
> Odd.


The article claims both sides need that much time to prepare.. $#@! man, we already had the case cracked and all the evidence in the first few days..

----------


## devil21

> I'm assuming that's only for criminal cases?


Good question.  The vast majority of civil suits don't involve a government (corporation) prosecutor so the costs are generally the responsibility of the parties (exceptions being frivolous cases or agreement by settlement/judgment).  It is worth noting that cases like traffic violations are actually civil contract cases.  Most cases alleging "victimless crimes" are also civil contract cases though they are presented as being "criminal".

----------


## Madison320

> Almost an entire year before the trial starts? Yeah, seems way too long. 
> And why would he "waive his right to a speedy trial"? Are there any circumstances where that might make sense? 
> Odd.


Not to mention it's already been 5 months since the incident occurred. It doesn't say whether he's out on bail, that's the only thing that would make sense. He was denied bail in the beginning, but I don't know if that can change. The whole thing is fishy and I'm about the most non-conspiracy person here.

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

> The article claims both sides need that much time to prepare.. $#@! man, we already had the case cracked and all the evidence in the first few days..


Kinda sounds like Las Vegas case time schedules. . .

----------


## Madison320

One interesting thing I read earlier was that during the Dec hearing they said the video from a police helicopter showed his car driving slowly down that street, then backing up, then speeding forward and hitting the protestors. I think they said that was why they changed it to 1st degree murder. But if that's the case, that confirms that the flagpole guy did in fact hit the car BEFORE he accelerated into the crowd (using the youtube video from the rear). Using the "rear view" video you can see the car getting struck by a guy with a flagpole. Some people have claimed that this occurred AFTER he started to accelerate, although that seemed unlikely that the flagpole guy would be that brave and fast to decide to hit a car as it was accelerating. But if he backed up then he was definitely hit before he accelerated because the backing up obviously occurred after that video. The question is was the hit to the car enough to justify the ramming?

----------


## dannno

> One interesting thing I read earlier was that during the Dec hearing they said the video from a police helicopter showed his car driving slowly down that street, then backing up, then speeding forward and hitting the protestors. I think they said that was why they changed it to 1st degree murder. But if that's the case, that confirms that the flagpole guy did in fact hit the car BEFORE he accelerated into the crowd (using the youtube video from the rear). Using the "rear view" video you can see the car getting struck by a guy with a flagpole. Some people have claimed that this occurred AFTER he started to accelerate, although that seemed unlikely that the flagpole guy would be that brave and fast to decide to hit a car as it was accelerating. But if he backed up then he was definitely hit before he accelerated because the backing up obviously occurred after that video. The question is was the hit to the car enough to justify the ramming?


We saw video of him driving by the same intersection heading east (as opposed to south) several minutes before. There were crowds and blockades everywhere, I kinda think he might have been lost (he was from another state). 

There was a car that went down the street in front of him, he may have been lost and just following that car to try and get out.. When he saw the crowd the car was headed toward, he may have hesitated and backed up, but I don't think this action was recorded on any other videos. But then he saw that the car was able to get through the crowd somewhat (although it ended up being blocked by the car in front of it) and when he rammed the crowd he pinched the other car in front of him, which was NOT visible before he drove through the crowd.

But ya, I distinctly remember seeing video and photographic evidence that DEFINITELY showed his brake lights were on when the flag pole guy hit his car, and right after the brake lights turned off and he accelerated into the crowd. Pretty sure the initial reverse before hitting the crowd happened a bit before the video we saw, not sure, you seemed to be indicating you thought it was in the rear view video maybe but I didn't quite understand.

----------


## Swordsmyth

*Armed Antifa Prof Admits Chasing Charlottesville Driver — Before Deadly Crash!*https://www.infowars.com/armed-antifa-prof-admits-chasing-charlottesville-driver-before-deadly-crash/

----------


## angelatc

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...627-story.html

Driver faces federal hate crime charges in addition to various state charges, including first degree murder.

----------


## Schifference

> http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...627-story.html
> 
> Driver faces federal hate crime charges in addition to various state charges, including first degree murder.


I wonder if those charges would have been the same had Rand Paul been the victim.

----------


## Swordsmyth

The  21-year-old driver of a vehicle that ripped through crowds who were  protesting a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., last  summer pleaded not guilty to 30 hate crimes in Federal Court on  Thursday.


   James  Fields was indicted last month on the federal charges, including a hate  crime resulting in the death of Heather Heyer. The 32-year-old  paralegal died when a Dodge Challenger drove through a group of people  calling for peace and equality as they held a counterprotest amid the  August “Unite the Right” rally.


     Fields told  the judge Thursday that he’s receiving treatment for bipolar disorder,  anxiety, depression and ADHD. He said he’s taking “several medications,”  including anti-psychotics and antidepressants.


    In  a new filing this week, prosecutors said the FBI gathered more evidence  in this case than they did in the Boston Marathon bombing in April  2013.


A  grand jury in Charlottesville late last year separately indicted Fields  on 10 state charges stemming from the violence at the August rally,  including first-degree murder — that case is slated for trial in the  fall.
      It’s not clear whether the prosecution will seek the death penalty in his case.


   The  maximum punishment under the federal Hate Crime Act Resulting in Death  is life in prison, but prosecutors also charged Fields with  “bias-motivated interference with federally protected activity resulting  in death,” which can be punishable by death.


   Officials said the outcome of his case in the state trial will affect the attorney general’s “death penalty determination.”

More at: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...05-story.html#

----------


## Danke

Trump should pardon him.

----------


## devil21

What exactly is the allegation that made this case a hate crime?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249

"because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person"...

Alleged victim Heyer is white, American, unknown religion, unknown sexual or gender identity and no apparent disability.  The crowd was various races, religions, genders, sexual and gender identities and disabilities.  How is this a hate crime?  Political affiliation or social causes are not hate crime criteria.

----------


## Valli6

_“bias-motivated interference with federally protected activity resulting in death,”_ 

Isn't that what the counter-protestors did? with assistance from the chief of police and the city council?

----------


## phill4paul

> _“bias-motivated interference with federally protected activity resulting in death,”_ 
> 
> Isn't that what the counter-protestors did? with assistance from the chief of police and the city council?


  Yup. One group had a permit. The other did not.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> _“bias-motivated interference with federally protected activity resulting in death,”_ 
> 
> Isn't that what the counter-protestors did? with assistance from the chief of police and the city council?


Pipe down with that nonsense.

----------


## dannno

> a group of people*  calling for peace and equality* as they held a counterprotest amid the  August “Unite the Right” rally.


By throwing bags of feces, bags of urine, bricks, cans of cement, beating people with batons and trying to torch people?? What a $#@!ing joke.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Trump should pardon him.


I'd be in favor of that, just to see the reaction.

----------


## phill4paul

> I'd be in favor of that, just to see the reaction.


  So would I. I don't believe for a second there was any premeditation in this. I believe he was in fear of his life and property. I do not believe in this political climate he will get a non-biased jury of "peers."

----------


## juleswin

> Trump should pardon him.


Did he actually kill anyone?or is this part of the frame up?

----------


## AngryCanadian

> The  21-year-old driver of a vehicle that ripped through crowds who were  protesting a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., last  summer pleaded not guilty to 30 hate crimes in Federal Court on  Thursday.
> 
> 
>    James  Fields was indicted last month on the federal charges, including a hate  crime resulting in the death of Heather Heyer. The 32-year-old  paralegal died when a Dodge Challenger drove through a group of people  calling for peace and equality as they held a counterprotest amid the  August “Unite the Right” rally.
> 
> 
>      Fields told  the judge Thursday that he’s receiving treatment for bipolar disorder,  anxiety, depression and ADHD. He said he’s taking “several medications,”  including anti-psychotics and antidepressants.
> 
> 
> ...


But when black people protested the last few years back under Obama shooting death to the cops that was ok?

----------


## dannno

> Did he actually kill anyone?or is this part of the frame up?


That is still in question. The mom said she died of a heart attack, which means the stress from the incident may have triggered a pre-existing condition that she could have died from at any moment.

----------


## juleswin

> That is still in question. The mom said she died of a heart attack, which means the stress from the incident may have triggered a pre-existing condition that she could have died from at any moment.


With my experience working on a cardiac floor, i know that is very rare for a seemingly healthy 32 yr old just dying from a heart attack is almost unheard of especially when they are quickly transported to the hospital. Maybe the car attacked complicated her problems. 

Regardless, if they can prove that the car accident played no part in her death, then I think Trump should pardon him

----------


## dannno

> With my experience working on a cardiac floor, i know that is very rare for *a seemingly healthy 32 yr old* just dying from a heart attack is almost unheard of


A what now??

----------


## juleswin

> A what now??


She is chubby and young, doesn't mean she has a cardiac problem. She was out and about protesting and plus, she was rushed to the hospital a short time after the accident. I think she should have made it had it been just the heart attack she was dealing with.

----------


## dannno

> She is chubby and young, doesn't mean she has a cardiac problem. She was out and about protesting and plus, she was rushed to the hospital a short time after the accident. I think she should have made it had it been just the heart attack she was dealing with.


She was not "chubby" she was morbidly obese...

----------


## juleswin

> She was not "chubby" she was morbidly obese...


Still, it takes years of abuse to build plaque and damage the heart to end up with a heart attack. I believe if she did have a heart attack it must have been brought about by the accident. Blood loss, arrhythmia, hemorrhage etc.

----------


## dannno

> Still, it takes years of abuse to build plaque and damage the heart to end up with a heart attack. I believe if she did have a heart attack it must have been brought about by the accident. Blood loss, arrhythmia, hemorrhage etc.


As someone who worked in the medical industry, I will assume you must just need a reminder that those things don't cause a heart attack, they can however cause cardiac arrest. 

Had Heather's mom said she died of cardiac arrest, and if that is the case, then it is possible the accident caused the cardiac arrest as opposed to lifestyle. 

However if she had a heard attack, that is specifically attributed primarily to genes, lifestyle and diet. The accident would have merely triggered it. 

Since many people don't know the difference, it is possible that Heather's mom erroneously said "heart attack" when in fact she died of cardiac arrest. 

However if Heather's mom was correct and she did die of a heart attack, then it is extremely likely that the accident was a trigger for her death as opposed to the primary cause.

----------


## Influenza

He intentionally rammed the car into the crowd/other cars, that's not an "accident."

----------


## dannno

> He intentionally rammed the car into the crowd/other cars, that's not an "accident."


That's highly debatable.

There were road blocks all over and he tried to exit out of the area to the east and had to loop back around to the north, then west, then tried to exit south. I presume he didn't want to go west.. but the point is he was kinda lost and trying to get out of there, Antifa was everywhere and they had weapons and were throwing bricks and beating people. 

He followed a car in front of him, the one he hit, went through the crowd. When he went through the crowd, they became angry and hit his car with a weapon. He was in fear for his life, his car had been damaged and he didn't know the car in front of him that was blocked by people was stopped there and he crashed into it.

----------


## juleswin

> As someone who worked in the medical industry, I will assume you must just need a reminder that those things don't cause a heart attack, they can however cause cardiac arrest.


Plaque build up, blood clot, vessel rupture, choking etc can all lead to a heart attack. Anything that would lead to poor blood circulation to the heart can give u a heart attack. Also a cardiac arrest can come as a result of a heart attack so I am not really sure what you are trying to say here




> Had Heather's mom said she died of cardiac arrest, and if that is the case, then it is possible the accident caused the cardiac arrest as opposed to lifestyle. 
> 
> However if she had a heard attack, that is specifically attributed primarily to genes, lifestyle and diet. The accident would have merely triggered it. 
> 
> Since many people don't know the difference, it is possible that Heather's mom erroneously said "heart attack" when in fact she died of cardiac arrest. 
> 
> However if Heather's mom was correct and she did die of a heart attack, then it is extremely likely that the accident was a trigger for her death as opposed to the primary cause.


Cardiac arrest can be triggered by trauma, in this case, motor vehicular accident trauma leading to a cardiac arrest. My guess is she went into cardiac arrest after that the car hit her in the chest cause her electrical signals to go haywire, she then went into V tach and her heart stopped after a few mins in that rhythm. What I am trying to say is that heart attack or cardiac arrest, the driver is most likely the cause of her death. Now if the argument is that he did not even hit her or he wasn't the driver, then I will support a pardon from Trump.

----------


## phill4paul

> He intentionally rammed the car into the crowd/other cars, that's not an "accident."


  That is the prosecutions case. And they will have to prove it. I don't see how they will be able to prove malice aforethought. Which is needed in a first degree murder case. They have thrown the whole book at him in the hopes that he will cop a plea, so they can call it a win. I'm glad he plead "not-guilty." I don't think they stand a hope in hell of proving it. I imagine by the time it goes to court they will be seeking a manslaughter charge instead.

----------


## Influenza

> That's highly debatable.
> 
> There were road blocks all over and he tried to exit out of the area to the east and had to loop back around to the north, then west, then tried to exit south. I presume he didn't want to go west.. but the point is he was kinda lost and trying to get out of there, Antifa was everywhere and they had weapons and were throwing bricks and beating people. 
> 
> He followed a car in front of him, the one he hit, went through the crowd. When he went through the crowd, they became angry and hit his car with a weapon. He was in fear for his life, his car had been damaged and he didn't know the car in front of him that was blocked by people was stopped there and he crashed into it.


Ahh I see, it was ok that he rammed his car into the crowd because he didn't realize there was a car (that you claim he JUST followed) there also. He was so lost that after ramming his car into the crowd, he immediately reversed, and got the $#@! out of there, suddenly not lost at all and capable to easily escape. Your analysis doesn't even stand up against the most basic scrutiny.

----------


## dannno

> Plaque build up, blood clot, vessel rupture, choking etc can all lead to a heart attack. Anything that would lead to poor blood circulation to the heart can give u a heart attack. Also a cardiac arrest can come as a result of a heart attack so I am not really sure what you are trying to say here
> 
> 
> 
> Cardiac arrest can be triggered by trauma, in this case, motor vehicular accident trauma leading to a cardiac arrest. My guess is she went into cardiac arrest after that the car hit her in the chest cause her electrical signals to go haywire, she then went into V tach and her heart stopped after a few mins in that rhythm. What I am trying to say is that heart attack or cardiac arrest, the driver is most likely the cause of her death. Now if the argument is that he did not even hit her or he wasn't the driver, then I will support a pardon from Trump.


So I don't think you realize it but you kinda arrived at my point on your own. 

If it was cardiac arrest that killed her, and NOT a heart attack (like her mother said), then it likely emanated from the accident.. whereas if a heart attack caused the cardiac arrest, then it was likely triggered by the accident as opposed to the primary cause.

----------


## dannno

> Ahh I see, it was ok that he rammed his car into the crowd because he didn't realize there was a car (that you claim he JUST followed) there also. He was so lost that after ramming his car into the crowd, he immediately reversed, and got the $#@! out of there, suddenly not lost at all and capable to easily escape. Your analysis doesn't even stand up against the most basic scrutiny.


Here is some basic scrutiny for you:

If he felt his life was in danger from the crowd (it was a violent mob attacking his car, before he hit anybody), then he had a right to try and get out of there and preserve his life. He is not in fact obligated to stay there and die from being attacked by a violent mob as you seem to believe. At first, after his car was attacked with a weapon before he hit anybody by following the car in front of him, and then when his car crashed, by reversing and trying to get out of there alive.

----------


## Influenza

> Here is some basic scrutiny for you:
> 
> If he felt his life was in danger from the crowd (it was a violent mob attacking his car, before he hit anybody), then he had a right to try and get out of there and preserve his life. He is not in fact obligated to stay there and die from being attacked by a violent mob as you seem to believe. At first, after his car was attacked with a weapon before he hit anybody by following the car in front of him, and then when his car crashed, by reversing and trying to get out of there alive.


There was no violent mob attacking his car. One of the videos it looked like 1 person swung something at the back of his car, occurring about 2 seconds before he shouted, according to you, "MUH LYFE!!" and decided to charge into a group of people and vehicles, that clearly extended well beyond the point of the initial collision, endangering his life far more than simply reversing and taking another route.

----------


## dannno

> *There was no violent mob attacking his car*. One of the videos it looked like 1 person swung something at the back of his car, occurring about 2 seconds before he shouted, according to you, "MUH LYFE!!" and decided to charge into a group of people and vehicles, that clearly extended well beyond the point of the initial collision, endangering his life far more than simply reversing and taking another route.


See, now you are just playing the leftist dumb$#@! role. That isn't going to convince anybody. 

We all saw the videos of violent antifa mobs going out to "Bash the Fash", they were throwing bags of feces, bags of urine, rocks, bricks, cement filled soda cans and they had all sorts of violent weapons and had several violent clashes already that day.. 

So for you to say there was no violent mob just sounds retarded.. 

He knew he might be driving into a violent mob, but he was trapped downtown and lost and didn't know how to get out. 

So, like I said, HE FOLLOWED ANOTHER $#@!ING CAR. That is not an unreasonable approach to take. 

He saw a big group of people, probably wasn't sure what side they were on until he got closer. But he kept following the car in front of him, figuring they would create room enough for him to follow them out. The other car got absorbed into the mob Homer style, and so when they started attacking his car (which, put a huge dent in his fender and if you have ever been in an accident of any type in a car you would know how loud and scary something like that would actually sound from inside the car), he got scared. 

In fact, he was so scared he $#@! his pants. That is how the police found him. If he was doing it on purpose, he probably wouldn't have $#@! his pants because he would have expected the outcome that occurred. Instead he likely did not expect that outcome, thus $#@!ting his pants.

----------


## navy-vet

> See, now you are just playing the leftist dumb$#@! role. That isn't going to convince anybody. 
> 
> We all saw the videos of violent antifa mobs going out to "Bash the Fash", they were throwing bags of feces, bags of urine, rocks, bricks, cement filled soda cans and they had all sorts of violent weapons and had several violent clashes already that day.. 
> 
> So for you to say there was no violent mob just sounds retarded.. 
> 
> He knew he might be driving into a violent mob, but he was trapped downtown and lost and didn't know how to get out. 
> 
> So, like I said, HE FOLLOWED ANOTHER $#@!ING CAR. That is not an unreasonable approach to take. 
> ...


out of rep

----------


## navy-vet

> There was no violent mob attacking his car. One of the videos it looked like 1 person swung something at the back of his car, occurring about 2 seconds before he shouted, according to you, "MUH LYFE!!" and decided to charge into a group of people and vehicles, that clearly extended well beyond the point of the initial collision, endangering his life far more than simply reversing and taking another route.


ahhhh Bull Crap!

----------


## Madison320

> That is the prosecutions case. And they will have to prove it. I don't see how they will be able to prove malice aforethought. Which is needed in a first degree murder case. They have thrown the whole book at him in the hopes that he will cop a plea, so they can call it a win. I'm glad he plead "not-guilty." I don't think they stand a hope in hell of proving it. I imagine by the time it goes to court they will be seeking a manslaughter charge instead.


Can they change the charges now that he has pleaded not guilty? That doesn't seem right somehow. Then again nothing in this case seems right. He's been in jail for almost a year now. It'll probably be a year and a half by the time this thing goes to trial. Doesn't that violate the right to a speedy trial?

Here's another thing that doesn't seem right. It appears that people that got injured in the violence from the protests are suing the people that *organized the protest!* Don't you need to sue the people *that actually caused the injuries* not the *organizers*? How can organizers of a protest be responsible for the actions of everyone that attend their protest? Can't this be used to squelch any controversial protest?

*Court rules Charlottesville victims can advance suit against white nationalists*


https://wtkr.com/2018/07/10/court-ru...-nationalists/

----------


## dannno

> Can they change the charges now that he has pleaded not guilty? That doesn't seem right somehow. Then again nothing in this case seems right. He's been in jail for almost a year now. It'll probably be a year and a half by the time this thing goes to trial. Doesn't that violate the right to a speedy trial?
> 
> Here's another thing that doesn't seem right. It appears that people that got injured in the violence from the protests are suing the people that *organized the protest!* Don't you need to sue the people *that actually caused the injuries* not the *organizers*? How can organizers of a protest be responsible for the actions of everyone that attend their protest? Can't this be used to squelch any controversial protest?
> 
> *Court rules Charlottesville victims can advance suit against white nationalists*
> 
> 
> https://wtkr.com/2018/07/10/court-ru...-nationalists/


Hah, so you can go to somebody else's protest who has a permit, cause violence and mayhem, then sue them when you get hurt?? Amazing..

----------


## Madison320

> Hah, so you can go to somebody else's protest who has a permit, cause violence and mayhem, then sue them when you get hurt?? Amazing..


Only if you are in a protected group.

There's something I've been meaning to add to this topic. A lot of people here say things like "who cares, the guy is a Nazi". Remember that to many people on the left libertarians are closely related to Nazis and other "right wing" extremist groups.

----------


## Valli6

This is all nuts though, since the report Charlottesville paid for, already said it was due to the incompetence of the cops and city government.

I see no way any of these law suits can possibly be successful. It's like they're intentionally setting people up for disappointment and there will probably be rioting  after each loss. (Anyone else taken a look at Charlottesville's replacement for the police chief? EGAD! Bigger moron than the last one!)

----------


## Swordsmyth



----------


## Valli6

Listen to Dwayne Dixon direct counter protestors to stop traffic with their bodies! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LX59Ral_7Q

*EDIT - IMPORTANT CORRECTION!*
Although this video clearly demonstrates (between 1:35 to 2:16) that antifa leaders instruct naive protestors to walk out in front of cars - WHILE NEVER TAKING ON SUCH DANGEROUS ROLES THEMSELVES! -  closer inspection reveals that this footage  was likely recorded at a previous protest, NOT THE MORNING OF THE CHARLOTTESVILLE RIOT! A sign with the words _Rocks Bar and Hair Shop_  appears on the left side of the screen. Googling _Rocks Bar and Hair Shop_ shows us that this business is located in *Durham, NC,* not Charlottesville.  There was a protest in Durham NC on May first and that is likely where this particular set of instructions was recorded. If you share this still-important video, DO NOT spread more misinformation by claiming that its from Charlottesville, just prior to Heather Heyer being injured - as is claimed in the video.
------------------
@ 1: 35 of video:



> Slow down traffic. Be willing to put your bodies on the line. But if the cops arent gonna stop them, they all know youre here, right? Theyre gonna drive on your ass... or someones gonna get hopped up, and [garble] gonna run your ass over, right? RIGHT? [Yeah]
> 
> Alright. So we know traffics coming this way, right? [motions] Get in that intersection and start turning traffic that way [motions] Get someone down the NEXT block, to start screaming if $#@! comes towards us, right? Right!. MOVE! [motions] MOVE! Some of you stay here. Some of you who are willing to put your $#@! down, go over there! Get ready to get hit! (2:16)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LX59Ral_7Q

----------


## r3volution 3.0

The unwholesome anniversary is upcoming. 

Can I assume that the red- and black-shirts will be assembling again to beat one another senseless?

----------


## RJB

We can only hope.  It beats watching football.




> The unwholesome anniversary is upcoming. 
> 
> Can I assume that the red- and black-shirts will be assembling again to beat one another senseless?

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> We can only hope.  It beats watching football.


Maybe we should do a pool on which side suffers more broken heads (winner gets to flee the country with his winnings).

----------


## tod evans

> 


I could not be in a room with this $#@!, just a 50sec video grates on my nerves.

----------


## Valli6

*IMPORTANT CORRECTION regarding the video in my earlier post.*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LX59Ral_7Q
_Please note:_ 
Although this video clearly demonstrates (between 1:35 to 2:16) that antifa leaders instruct naive protestors to walk out in front of cars - WHILE APPARENTLY NEVER TAKING ON SUCH DANGEROUS ROLES THEMSELVES! -  closer inspection reveals that this footage  was likely recorded at a previous protest, NOT THE MORNING OF THE CHARLOTTESVILLE RIOT! A sign with the words _“Rocks Bar and Hair Shop”_ appears on the left side of the screen. Googling _“Rocks Bar and Hair Shop”_ shows us that this business is located in *Durham, NC*, not Charlottesville.  There was a protest in Durham NC on May first and that is likely where this particular set of instructions was recorded. If you share this still-important video, DO NOT spread more misinformation by claiming that it’s from Charlottesville and recorded just prior to Heather Heyer being injured (which seems to be the claim made by the person who made the video.)
(See 1:35 to 2:16)

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Maybe we should do a pool on which side suffers more broken heads (winner gets to flee the country with his winnings).


And go where?

----------


## Valli6

> Maybe we should do a pool on which side suffers more broken heads (winner gets to flee the country with his winnings).


Are you making a joke, or do you actually believe there are two different sides participating in this media extravaganza?

----------


## AuH20

Complete and utter retards. Whites are killed at a greater rate by the police in terms of avg. encounters. Police are beasts who don't care who you are.

----------


## TheCount

> The basement stairs are a substantial obstacle.
> 
> They were there in spirit.


They claimed to have brought their citronella-scented tiki torches to the last one.  But, of course, post rates have fallen rather dramatically since mid-2017... we'll just have to find out when they come back prior to the 2020 election.

----------


## Madison320

> Wow its been a year since this incident happened.


And still no trial. I wonder if this counts towards his sentence?

----------


## devil21

> And still no trial. I wonder if this counts towards his sentence?


Yes, it does.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> And still no trial. I wonder if this counts towards his sentence?





> Yes, it does.


What if he is found Not Guilty?

----------


## Madison320

> What if he is found Not Guilty?


Exactly. And that seems likely given the existing data.

----------


## devil21

> What if he is found Not Guilty?


What do you mean?  

Lots of profit was made already.  Attorneys got paid, judges got paid, court staff got paid.  The BAR is happy.

He agreed to be warehouse property and the custodians of the property have enjoyed the fruits of his decision.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> What do you mean?  
> 
> Lots of profit was made already.  Attorneys got paid, judges got paid, court staff got paid.  The BAR is happy.
> 
> He agreed to be warehouse property and the custodians of the property have enjoyed the fruits of his decision.


My point is that there is a reason for this:

*Amendment 6* <<Back | Table of Contents | Next>>In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial...

----------


## devil21

> My point is that there is a reason for this:
> 
> *Amendment 6* <<Back | Table of Contents | Next>>In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial...


Unless it is waived.  It's almost always waived in major cases.  Attorneys are not your friends.  The longer a case drags on the more money the BAR makes.

----------


## Valli6

Ironically, the guy who hit him was convicted of felony hit-and-run involving a death.

https://apnews.com/fffc409c77a0461c8f056b70c05b83bb




> *Officials say Charlottesville suspect assaulted in jail*
> October 26, 2018
> 
> CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) — A man in custody at a Virginia jail assaulted fellow inmate *James Alex Fields Jr.*, the man accused of driving a car into counterprotesters at a white nationalist rally, the facility’s superintendent said Friday.
> 
> Fields was being seen by jail staff in an office Monday morning when *Timothy Ray Brown Jr.* made his way past a correctional officer and hit Fields “twice on the left side of his body above his shoulders,”* Col. Martin Kumer*, superintendent of the *Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail*, said in a news release.
> 
> “At no time did Inmate Fields have an opportunity to defend himself or respond in any manner,” the news release said.
> 
> ...





> ...In an interview with The Associated Press, area resident *Lucinda Carter* said Brown is her son and that he called her from jail saying that he had gotten into a fight with Fields.
> 
> Carter said Brown told her he hit Fields twice in the face. When asked what she thinks led to the altercation, Carter said: “I think Timothy was affected by [Heyer’s death].”...
> 
> ...Court records show *Brown was found guilty in September of destruction of property and misdemeanor assault.* He has appealed the conviction and is scheduled for a December hearing in Albemarle County Circuit Court.
> 
> Records also show Brown was *convicted in April in Albemarle Circuit Court of felony hit-and-run involving a death and making a false statement on his criminal history.*  He is scheduled for a presentencing report hearing on Monday.
> 
> https://www.richmond.com/news/virgin...70589ce4a.html


https://www.dailyprogress.com/news/i...d3386f737.html

----------


## devil21

Field's trial quietly started today.  Not even a mention on drudge.

----------


## Madison320

> Field's trial quietly started today.  Not even a mention on drudge.


I just happened to check today and noticed that the trial just started. He's been in the slammer for a year and a half.

The challenge will be finding an unbiased description of the events of the trial.

So far I've not heard one mention of the fact that his car was hit before he accelerated into the crowd. I think this is the most biased news coverage I've ever seen. Even worse than the Zimmerman trial.

----------


## Swordsmyth

A  self-proclaimed neo-Nazi was found guilty of first-degree murder for  killing a woman at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.,  last year. 
            A jury rejected James Alex Fields Jr.'s argument that he  acted in self-defense when he drove his car into a crowd of  counterprotesters during a “Unite the Right” rally on Aug. 12, 2017. 
            Fields, 21, killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer and injured  dozens of counterprotesters when he sped his car into a crowd marching  through Charlottesville in response to a far-right rally that had been  organized to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate leader  Robert E. Lee. 

            Fields was also convicted on nine other charges, including aggravated malicious wounding and hit and run, according to the Associated Press. 
            During his trial, prosecutors showed jurors a meme Fields  had shared on Instagram months before the rally that showed bodies being  thrown in the air after a car rammed into a crowd of protesters. 
            Fields lawyer argued that he drove into the crowd because  he feared for his life and was “scared to death” by the violent clashes  between the white nationalists and counterprotesters. 
           The jury will decide his prison sentence Monday. The law stipulates that they can recommend up to life in prison.






https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-degree-murder

----------


## dannno

> A  self-proclaimed neo-Nazi was found guilty of first-degree murder for  killing a woman at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va.,  last year. 
>             A jury rejected James Alex Fields Jr.'s argument that he  acted in self-defense when he drove his car into a crowd of  counterprotesters during a “Unite the Right” rally on Aug. 12, 2017. 
>             Fields, 21, killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer and injured  dozens of counterprotesters when he sped his car into a crowd marching  through Charlottesville in response to a far-right rally that had been  organized to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate leader  Robert E. Lee. 
> 
>             Fields was also convicted on nine other charges, including aggravated malicious wounding and hit and run, according to the Associated Press. 
>             During his trial, prosecutors showed jurors a meme Fields  had shared on Instagram months before the rally that showed bodies being  thrown in the air after a car rammed into a crowd of protesters. 
>             Fields lawyer argued that he drove into the crowd because  he feared for his life and was “scared to death” by the violent clashes  between the white nationalists and counterprotesters. 
>            The jury will decide his prison sentence Monday. The law stipulates that they can recommend up to life in prison.
> 
> ...



As much as I'm opposed to his views, hopefully he can appeal or something, that is ridiculous.. I doubt Trump would pardon him, but he deserves one.

----------


## dannno

> So far I've not heard one mention of the fact that his car was hit before he accelerated into the crowd.


Ya, it's really incredible how nobody gets exposed to the basic facts of a case unless you are in some alternative internet subculture.

----------


## devil21

> As much as I'm opposed to his views, hopefully he can appeal or something, that is ridiculous.. I doubt Trump would pardon him, but he deserves one.


Trump can't pardon state charges.

----------


## PursuePeace

> As much as I'm opposed to his views, hopefully he can appeal or something, that is ridiculous.. I doubt Trump would pardon him, but he deserves one.


I agree.

Not sure who this guy is but he brings up some valid points:

https://twitter.com/AltRightTruth/st...90454953889792

Especially #8. Why wasn't that brought up? 
Also how could he be charged with hit and run (leaving the scene) when people were attacking his car immediately after? They busted out his side window and rear window. What was he supposed to do? Sit there and wait to be dragged out of the car and beaten to death?? Of course he was scared. He saw the violent mobs of antifa earlier, he had urine thrown on him. He decided to get out of there and go home (according to the people that he met there who were also trying to get out of the city and go back home.)

I may not agree with his beliefs, but I do not think this man received a fair trial.

----------


## devil21

> I may not agree with his beliefs, but I do not think this man received a fair trial.


Read up on Field's attorney.^^^^^^

I'm certain there was a lot of screwery with the entire event, however he was never meant to receive a fair trial in the first place.  His court appointed attorney has a long history worth looking into.

----------


## dannno

> When Fields is told several people are severely hurt and one has died,  Fields begins crying and hyperventilating for several minutes.
> 
> In that same recording, Fields says “I didn’t want to hurt people, but I  thought they were attacking me. Even if they were attacking, they’re  still people. I feel bad for them”





> A woman who met James Fields at the rally and also got a ride from him  to her car said she initially didn’t think it could be Fields who drive  through the crowd. “He didn’t seem like the kind of person who would do  that,” she testified.





> Bolstad said nobody in their group had any weapons, helmets or flags.  She said she did not feel uneased around Fields. They were invited to go  to lunch with Matthews and Fields, but declined because they wanted to  go home


//

----------


## dannno

> Read up on Field's attorney.^^^^^^
> 
> I'm certain there was a lot of screwery with the entire event, however he was never meant to receive a fair trial in the first place.  His court appointed attorney has a long history worth looking into.


Fields' attorney is friends with Antifa leaders on facebook.

----------


## PursuePeace

> Read up on Field's attorney.^^^^^^
> 
> I'm certain there was a lot of screwery with the entire event, however he was never meant to receive a fair trial in the first place.  His court appointed attorney has a long history worth looking into.


Wow. This is a long article, but it's a very good read. I wanted to quote the entire thing. So this poor guy spent over 2 years in jail, lost his job, lost his home and all of his savings over this. 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...verturned.html




> *Three years ago, one of the strangest criminal cases in recent memory began in Charlottesville, Virginia, where I live, when a young woman sent a series of text messages telling her boyfriend that a man had abducted her, followed by a series of texts, allegedly from her captor, taunting her boyfriend with threats of sexual violence. Her story was strange, and the case was fraught with complications from the get-go, but the accused ended up in prison long after the doubts outweighed the evidence.*
> 
> This story is bizarre, but it’s not all that unusual: Prosecutors can prosecute even the weakest, most clearly flawed cases relentlessly, and innocent people can end up in jail. 
> 
> *This week, after two and a half years in prison, Mark Weiner saw his conviction vacated. I*t finally ended a saga in which Weiner was arrested, convicted, and sentenced to eight years in jail on charges of abducting a woman with the intent to sexually harm her.






> *The Albemarle County prosecutor, who is elected to the post, is currently Commonwealth’s Attorney Denise Lunsford (Note: She lost her bid for reelection and is now a public defender.) .* As part of her prosecution strategy, Weiner’s trial lawyer later said, Lunsford “sought the advice of two respected detectives in the city and the county” to pinpoint where the alleged victim’s text messages had originated. Each cop concluded independently that the texts had been sent from near where Steiniger’s mother lived. *Lunsford interviewed the first officer for the first time at the courthouse, just before he was scheduled to testify. He told the prosecutor he’d guess the calls came from Steiniger’s mother’s house, not the abandoned propert
> 
> 
> Some prosecutors would call that sort of thing exculpatory information that must legally be turned over to the defense. Lunsford thanked the officer for stopping by and said she would no longer be needing his testimony after all*. (This officer would later call the defense attorney and tell him what had transpired.) *The second law enforcement officer offered up the same conclusion. He didn’t get to testify, either.*
> 
> When defense counsel learned of the cellphone evidence and attempted to use one of the detectives as a defense witness, *Lunsford had him disqualified as an expert,* objecting to the fact that the defense attorney hadn’t subpoenaed the right witnesses to get the phone record evidence in. *When the defense lawyer asked in chambers for a continuance so that he could call the correct witnesses, the motion was denied by trial court Judge Cheryl Higgins. Jurors would never hear what the phone tower records showed. Local lawyers and trial observers were shocked.*
> 
> 
> Deirdre Enright, director of investigation for the University of Virginia School of Law’s Innocence Project Clinic (disclosure: and a friend of mine), notes that this is where the idea of justice got confused with the promise of winning. As she says, *“Lunsford appears to have learned in the middle of her case against Mark that the ‘victim’s’ cell phone tower records contradicted the victim’s version of events, and corroborated the defendant’s. Leaving aside the fact that a competent prosecutor is not learning the underlying facts of her case mid-trial, this was the kind of exculpatory evidence that would cause a fair prosecutor, honoring her obligation to seek and serve justice, to dismiss the charge. Instead, she successfully argued against their admissibility in court. In the wrongful conviction world, the nicest description we have for this phenomenon is ‘tunnel vision.’ ”*
> ...

----------


## phill4paul

Convicted in the same town that the mayor ordered police to "stand down" once rioting started? Sounds legit.

----------


## Madison320

> Fields' attorney is friends with Antifa leaders on facebook.


Fields was found guilty.

The whole case was bizarre. The judge ordered the first attorney for Fields to recuse himself because that attorney was protesting the removal of the statues in Charlottesville. I don't get that. Wouldn't you want an attorney that wanted to find you innocent? So if what you said is true about Field's attorney the judge basically removed an attorney that had incentive to find him innocent and replaced him with a flakey attorney that has incentive to find him guilty. My sister's son just recently got charged with a felony for making pot brownies in his dorm kitchen. The attorney they hired was a member of NORML (legalize pot group) and my sister considered that to be a good thing to have an attorney that was sympathetic to her son's plight. The judge in the Field's case would've made my sister find an attorney that was against the legalization of pot. That doesn't make sense to me.


The weird thing to me was that nothing new came out in the trial as far as I could tell from the reporting. I thought there'd be some evidence presented on what actually happened during those crucial 15-20 seconds. Was the car struck before Fields accelerated, as the video evidence suggests? Were all those guys with bats and pipes already attacking the car beforehand or only afterwards? Were they surrounding the car but not striking it? 


What's really odd is that as far as I can tell Fields did not testify. That's really what I was waiting for. I would've like to have heard in his own words what happened. Did he hear his car being hit by the crowd? Did he see guys with bats coming after him?

I think it was probably a case of manslaughter but I don't see how it could possibly be first degree murder.

----------


## phill4paul

> Fields was found guilty.
> 
> The whole case was bizarre. The judge ordered the first attorney for Fields to recuse himself because that attorney was protesting the removal of the statues in Charlottesville. I don't get that. Wouldn't you want an attorney that wanted to find you innocent? So if what you said is true about Field's attorney the judge basically removed an attorney that had incentive to find him innocent and replaced him with a flakey attorney that has incentive to find him guilty. My sister's son just recently got charged with a felony for making pot brownies in his dorm kitchen. The attorney they hired was a member of NORML (legalize pot group) and my sister considered that to be a good thing to have an attorney that was sympathetic to her son's plight. The judge in the Field's case would've made my sister find an attorney that was against the legalization of pot. That doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> 
> The weird thing to me was that nothing new came out in the trial as far as I could tell from the reporting. I thought there'd be some evidence presented on what actually happened during those crucial 15-20 seconds. Was the car struck before Fields accelerated, as the video evidence suggests? Were all those guys with bats and pipes already attacking the car beforehand or only afterwards? Were they surrounding the car but not striking it? 
> 
> 
> What's really odd is that as far as I can tell Fields did not testify. That's really what I was waiting for. I would've like to have heard in his own words what happened. Did he hear his car being hit by the crowd? Did he see guys with bats coming after him?
> ...


  This ^^^. Unfortunately, us peons do not get a "get out of jail free" card when we "fear for our lives."

----------


## Madison320

> This ^^^. Unfortunately, us peons do not get a "get out of jail free" card when we "fear for our lives."


I just read a very brief summary of the case, the prosecution lasted for 3 1/2 days the defense was 1 day.

No mention of the fact that the Antifa was armed with pipes and bats and was attacking the car. To me that's by far the most critical piece of evidence.


https://www.whsv.com/content/news/502204161.html

----------


## PursuePeace

> I just read a very brief summary of the case, the prosecution lasted for 3 1/2 days the defense was 1 day.
> 
> No mention of the fact that the Antifa was armed with pipes and bats and was attacking the car. To me that's by far the most critical piece of evidence.
> 
> 
> https://www.whsv.com/content/news/502204161.html



Yeah, here's a twitter feed of the entire trial:
https://twitter.com/NBC29Trials

I want to see a transcript of the trial to see the details. A video would be much better. I've not yet read anything so far to give me the impression that the defense was actually trying to win this case for their client. A transcript would give a better picture. 

I wonder if his mother is even aware of all of the videos and evidence in her son's favor. Weird that between Dec 2017 and March 2018, Fields only made one call from jail. 

This part I don't have verifiable sources so this is just hearsay, but I read where some people wanted to get together and fund a new attorney for Fields but Lunsford would not allow anyone to talk to her client.

----------


## Grandmastersexsay

Was there no GoFundMe for this guy? Is he that toxic? I imagine there would be people who would donate, just out of hatred for antifa. With a decent lawyer, he'd be able to appeal and get out of that court.

----------


## Madison320

> Yeah, here's a twitter feed of the entire trial:
> https://twitter.com/NBC29Trials
> 
> I want to see a transcript of the trial to see the details. A video would be much better. I've not yet read anything so far to give me the impression that the defense was actually trying to win this case for their client. A transcript would give a better picture. 
> 
> I wonder if his mother is even aware of all of the videos and evidence in her son's favor. Weird that between Aug 2017 and March 2018, Fields only made one call from jail. 
> 
> This part I don't have verifiable sources so this is just hearsay, but I read where some people wanted to get together and fund a new attorney for Fields but Lunsford would not allow anyone to talk to her client.


I was reading thru the twitter feed and came across this:

"The commonwealth rebutted the defense's argument that Fields could not intend to kill Heyer by saying he intended to kill anyone, not specifically Heyer."

WTF? Who needs a prosecuting attorney when the defense attorney is basically claiming the defendant is guilty? What a joke!

Edit: OK, I finished reading thru the twitter feed. What a joke. Basically the prosecution tried to show that Fields was a bad guy and the defense tried to show he was not that bad. I can't believe I waited a year and a half for this. I really thought it would be an actual trial and they'd have witnesses and videos of the actual events that took place. I was especially curious to hear how Fields described the event.

----------


## PursuePeace

> I was reading thru the twitter feed and came across this:
> 
> "The commonwealth rebutted the defense's argument that Fields could not intend to kill Heyer by saying he intended to kill anyone, not specifically Heyer."
> 
> WTF? Who needs a prosecuting attorney when the defense attorney is basically claiming the defendant is guilty? What a joke!
> 
> Edit: OK, I finished reading thru the twitter feed. What a joke. *Basically the prosecution tried to show that Fields was a bad guy and the defense tried to show he was not that bad.* I can't believe I waited a year and a half for this. I really thought it would be an actual trial and they'd have witnesses and videos of the actual events that took place. I was especially curious to hear how Fields described the event.


Exactly my thoughts.

----------


## PursuePeace

Just some more info:

https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/D...501902241.html




> Young then played body worn camera footage of his first encounter with Fields. The footage was taken after Fields drove his car into the crowd of counter protesters. Young and Fields were on Monticello Ave. where Fields stopped his car after driving away from the scene on 4th and Water St.
> 
> *In the video, Fields apologizes more than six times.
> 
> When asked why he is sorry he said, “I’m sorry that…that I…I don’t know.”
> *
> Fields continued talking to the officer voluntarily.
> 
> *“I didn’t want to hurt anyone, but they were attacking me. Even if they were attacking…they’re still people,” said Fields. “I feel bad for them.”*
> ...


Notice this: "Fields told officers that members of *“antifa”, short for "anti-fascist" a left-leaning, anti-racist group*, were throwing stuff at him."

So they're a "left _leaning_ anti-racist group". No. They're a radical domestic terrorist group who throw urine and feces on people, intimidate and incite violence, cover their faces, block sidewalks and streets, throw bottles, swing bats and batons, smash cars, etc. etc.

The media convicted him less than one minute after the event occurred. 
The media controls EVERYTHING.

Disclaimer: This is just an opinion of what MAY have happened - 
What if they had given an alternate view, such as this one, which very well could be closer to the truth than what the media pushed:

----------


## Champ

> Just some more info:
> 
> https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/D...501902241.html
> 
> 
> 
> Notice this: "Fields told officers that members of *“antifa”, short for "anti-fascist" a left-leaning, anti-racist group*, were throwing stuff at him."
> 
> So they're a "left _leaning_ anti-racist group". No. They're a radical domestic terrorist group who throw urine and feces on people, intimidate and incite violence, cover their faces, block sidewalks and streets, throw bottles, swing bats and batons, smash cars, etc. etc.
> ...



This.  We all knew the second the media was covering this with the veracity that they did, that it was over for this man.  Since the initial coverage, all kinds of evidence can be shown detailing the fact that things did not go down the way the media presented them.  Having an unpopular or racist opinion is not a substitute for irrevocable guilt.  Yet, the court treated this case as if the media was the key eyewitness and convicted based on their take, not evidence, not law.  Also, what happened to a "speedy trial, lasting no longer than 30 days"?  Did it really take them the year and a half to get all of their ducks in a row to ensure a quick 3-4 day conviction?  Lawyers, judges, justice.. what a joke.  "Justice" has been dead in this country for longer than we would care to imagine.

----------


## Anti Globalist

Sucks that this guy didn't get a fair trial.  Certainly didn't help that the guy was a neo-nazi.  Had he not been one, his chances of being found not guilty would have been better.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sucks that this guy didn't get a fair trial.  Certainly didn't help that the guy was a neo-nazi.  Had he not been one, his chances of being found not guilty would have been better.


Soon all legal cases will be decided by your politics in any liberal jurisdiction.

That WILL lead to civil war.

----------


## Madison320

> This.  We all knew the second the media was covering this with the veracity that they did, that it was over for this man.  Since the initial coverage, all kinds of evidence can be shown detailing the fact that things did not go down the way the media presented them.  Having an unpopular or racist opinion is not a substitute for irrevocable guilt.  Yet, the court treated this case as if the media was the key eyewitness and convicted based on their take, not evidence, not law.  Also, what happened to a "speedy trial, lasting no longer than 30 days"?  Did it really take them the year and a half to get all of their ducks in a row to ensure a quick 3-4 day conviction?  Lawyers, judges, justice.. what a joke.  "Justice" has been dead in this country for longer than we would care to imagine.


This case seems different from the other high profile "right vs left" type cases. For example Jena6, Duke Lacrosse, Michael Brown, Zimmerman, etc. In those cases the verdict in the trial was the opposite of the verdict that the MSM had decided upon. Those trials didn't seem to be rigged like this one was.

----------


## TheCount

Has Individual-1 said anything about this?

----------


## phill4paul

> Has Individual-1 said anything about this?


   Ooooo, edgy. Using the term "Individual-1" instead of President Trump. I bet your wit just makes you the belle of the ball.

----------


## devil21

> Wow. This is a long article, but it's a very good read. I wanted to quote the entire thing. So this poor guy spent over 2 years in jail, lost his job, lost his home and all of his savings over this. 
> 
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...verturned.html


That shows how she is as an attorney.  There's other stuff out there about her mess of a personal life and, iirc, a major scandal that was the main reason she lost re-election.  I don't recall a lot of specifics but I do remember digging into her background when she was appointed and found all sorts of $#@! about her.  It all fit with the serious possibility that Fields may have been a patsy for a psyop.  It is a recurring theme with these high profile _questionable_ events/court cases that the court appointed attorney clearly plays for Team State.

(eta: and keep buying those fancy new cars that are capable of being remotely controlled!  that'll always end well.)

----------


## RonPaulMall

> This case seems different from the other high profile "right vs left" type cases. For example Jena6, Duke Lacrosse, Michael Brown, Zimmerman, etc. In those cases the verdict in the trial was the opposite of the verdict that the MSM had decided upon. Those trials didn't seem to be rigged like this one was.


The media got high on their own supply in those cases and kept reporting on them. With this case, they had about a one week orgy of hate in which they declared him a "terrorist" and maintained a strict boycott. So unlike those other cases, public never had the opportunity to find out the true details of the case.

----------


## Swordsmyth

The agent provocateur speaks out on the verdict:


Chris Cantwell,  a.k.a. the “Crying Nazi,” responded to the conviction of James Fields,  who was found guilty of first-degree murder for plowing a car into  protesters in Charlottesville, by threatening “complete and total destruction” of “Charlottesville and the broad left” in a post on social network Gab.

In his post, Cantwell claimed the conviction would create “an army of  fanatics who are ready to die” and “drive us toward [Charlottesville and  the left’s] complete and total destruction, as a matter of necessity  for our very survival.” But, contrarily, Cantwell also distanced himself  and his followers from Fields, describing him as as “best as I can  tell… a good, if troubled man” but claimed he was “not a soldier” in  their movement.

In May, he claimed to be an FBI informant

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...192327632.html

----------


## Swordsmyth

A  jury recommends that the man who rammed his car into a crowd of people  during the 'Unite the Right' rally in Charlottesville in 2017 should  spend life in prison plus 419 years behind bars.
James Alex Fields, 21, was found guilty of first-degree murder, five counts of aggravated malicious wounding and three counts of malicious wounding in the incident.
The  jury reached the decision after about four hours of deliberations,  according to The Associated Press. The judge in the case will ultimately  hand down the sentence.

The 10 charges Fields faced in this trial in the Charlottesville City  Circuit Court are separate from the 30 federal charges he faces that  relate to hate crimes. One of those federal charges is eligible for the  death penalty. He entered a not guilty plea in both the Circuit Court  case and to the federal charges.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/jury-recom...opstories.html

----------


## Madison320

> The media got high on their own supply in those cases and kept reporting on them. With this case, they had about a one week orgy of hate in which they declared him a "terrorist" and maintained a strict boycott. So unlike those other cases, public never had the opportunity to find out the true details of the case.


 I think one reason this case was different is that the right wing media never picked up on it. Maybe it was too toxic. In those other cases the MSM would make misleading claims then it would get ridiculed by guys like Limbaugh. For example in the Zimmerman case the MSM started off by showing photos of a mean looking overweight version of Zimmerman and a photo of Martin when he was 12 years old. The right wing media pointed out that Martin was actually bigger than Zimmerman at the time of the incident. It was so silly that they had to stop doing it and move on to a different misleading claim, like the photos that supposedly showed Zimmerman with no injuries to his head. In this case there was absolutely no one to rebut the MSM claims so they got to show whatever they wanted. For example have you noticed how they only show the videos where Fields is hitting the pedestrians and they never show the videos where guys are attacking his car with bats and pipes?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I think one reason this case was different is that the right wing media never picked up on it. Maybe it was too toxic. In those other cases the MSM would make misleading claims then it would get ridiculed by guys like Limbaugh. For example in the Zimmerman case the MSM started off by showing photos of a mean looking overweight version of Zimmerman and a photo of Martin when he was 12 years old. The right wing media pointed out that Martin was actually bigger than Zimmerman at the time of the incident. It was so silly that they had to stop doing it and move on to a different misleading claim, like the photos that supposedly showed Zimmerman with no injuries to his head. In this case there was absolutely no one to rebut the MSM claims so they got to show whatever they wanted. For example have you noticed how they only show the videos where Fields is hitting the pedestrians and they never show the videos where guys are attacking his car with bats and pipes?


Isn't the Jury System great?
Trial by MSM.

*Jury system = bad judgements and citizen slavery*

----------


## Swordsmyth

James  Alex Fields Jr. of Maumee, Ohio, pleaded guilty to 29 of 30 federal  charges stemming from the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville on  Aug. 12, 2017.
Under  a plea agreement, federal prosecutors will not seek the death penalty  against Fields and will dismiss the one count that carried death as a  possible punishment. The charges he pleaded guilty to call for life in  prison under federal sentencing guidelines.
Fields  appeared stoic, with his hands folded in front of him for much of the  hearing. He repeatedly responded "yes, sir," when U.S. District Judge  Michael Urbanski asked him if he was pleading guilty knowingly and  voluntarily.
Under  a "statement of facts," Fields admitted that he "expressed and  promoted" white supremacist ideology through his social media accounts  and engaged in white supremacist chants during the rally in  Charlottesville. He also admitted driving his car into the ethnically  diverse crowd of anti-racism protesters because of their race, color,  religion or national origin.
Urbanski scheduled sentencing for July 3.


After  Tuesday's hearing, U.S. Attorney Thomas Cullen said he hoped the plea  agreement would help the victims move on with their lives.
"The  defendant's hate-inspired act of domestic terrorism not only devastated  Heather Heyer's wonderful family and the 28 peaceful protesters ... but  it also left an indelible mark on the city of Charlottesville, our  state and our country," Cullen said.
Heyer's mother, Susan Bro, said she and Heyer's father agreed they did not want prosecutors to seek the death penalty.
"There's no point in killing him," she said. "It would not bring back Heather."
Cullen  said prosecutors had been in talks with Fields' lawyers for months  about a potential plea agreement, but did not seek to finalize a deal  until U.S. Attorney General William Barr last week authorized him not to  seek the death penalty if Fields agreed to plead to 29 counts.


During  his state trial, prosecutors said Fields — who described himself on  social media as an admirer of Adolf Hitler — drove his car into the  crowd because he was angry after witnessing earlier clashes between the  white nationalists and the counterprotesters.
The  jury rejected a claim by Fields' lawyers that he acted in self-defense  because he feared for his life after witnessing the earlier violence.
During  the plea hearing Wednesday, Fields — responding to questions from the  judge — said he has been treated for mental health issues since he was  6. He said he is currently on medication for bipolar disorder,  depression, anxiety, schizoid disorder, explosive onset disorder and  ADHD.

Jurors in Fields' state trial recommended a life sentence plus 419  years, although a judge still has to decide on the punishment.  Sentencing is scheduled for July 15.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/man-convicted...050344889.html

----------


## dannno

> The  jury rejected a claim by Fields' lawyers that he acted in self-defense  because he feared for his life after witnessing the earlier violence.


The defense attorneys didn't do a very good job.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> The defense attorneys didn't do a very good job.


They weren't trying to.

----------


## Swordsmyth

James Fields Jr., the white supremacist who murdered a woman two  summers ago when he steered a Dodge Challenger into a crowd of peaceful  demonstrators in Charlottesville, Va., was sentenced Friday to life in  federal prison. 
Lawyers for Mr. Fields, 22, had pleaded for  mercy, citing his difficult childhood and mental health problems.  Prosecutors had sought the life sentence, arguing that Mr. Fields’s  racist, anti-Semitic beliefs motivated the decision to attend the white  supremacist rally in Charlottesville and to attack counterprotesters,  killing Heather Heyer and injuring dozens of others. 
“The  defendant’s crimes were so horrendous — and the maiming of innocents so  severe — that they outweigh any factors the defendant may argue form a  basis for leniency,” federal prosecutors told the judge in a sentencing  memo. “This is particularly true in light of the fact that he has  demonstrated that he feels no remorse for his actions and continues to  espouse his hateful ideology.” 
... 
Mr. Fields was  convicted separately in state court of first-degree murder in December,  and jurors recommended a life sentence. A judge will decide in the  coming weeks whether to accept that recommendation.

_(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
_

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## Swordsmyth

Interestingly, someone on /pol wanted to send money to James Fields,  who is in jail for maybe, possibly, but probably not running down a  leftist land whale at the Unite the Right rally, and they found he  wasn’t listed in the BOP website, his lawyers wouldn’t return phone  calls so money could be sent to him, and nobody can find him.

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## dannno

> In a series of tweets posted last week, journalist Mary Emily O'Hara said* medics were "forced" by state police to stop working on Charlottesville counter-protester Heather Heyer.* *32-year-old Heyer died from blunt force injury to her chest after a neo-Nazi hit her with his car at the infamous Charlottesville, Virginia, "Unite the Right" rally.*
> 
> 
> *According to O'Hara, the medics believe Heyer could have been saved if they were allowed to proceed with medical attention. The bombshell story, however, was barred from being published by her "former employer," O'Hara said, and she was not allowed to publish it elsewhere. It's unclear whom O'Hara was referring to as her former employer; her work has been featured in outlets including MSNBC, The Daily Dot, NBC News, The Daily Beast, Vice, Rolling Stone, and others.*
> 
> 
> "The week Heather Heyer died, I had exclusive interviews with medics who said state police forced them to stop working on her after the crash — which they believed led to her death," the journalist posted to Twitter on Monday. "The piece was canceled by my employer at the time, but I'll never forget what those medics told me."



https://www.dailywire.com/news/50768...ign=modelnames

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## Occam's Banana

https://twitter.com/chris_notcapn/st...36948642996234



https://twitter.com/business/status/1463243288207626252






*Jury Awards Millions in Damages for Unite the Right Violence in Charlottesville*
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-deliberations
_AP / Denise Lavoie (23 November 2021)_

Charlottesville, Va. (AP) -- A jury ordered 17 white nationalist leaders and organizations to pay more than $26 million in damages Tuesday over the violence that erupted during the deadly 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017.

After a nearly monthlong civil trial, the jury in U.S. District Court deadlocked on two key claims but found the white nationalists liable on four other claims in the lawsuit filed by nine people who suffered physical or emotional injuries during the two days of demonstrations.

Attorney Roberta Kaplan said the plaintiffs' lawyers plan to refile the suit so a new jury can decide the two deadlocked claims. She called the amount of damages awarded from the others counts “eye opening”

“That sends a loud message,” Kaplan said.

The verdict, though mixed, is a rebuke to the white nationalist movement, particularly for the two dozen individuals and organizations accused in a federal lawsuit of orchestrating violence against African Americans, Jews and others in a meticulously planned conspiracy.

White nationalist leader Richard Spencer vowed to appeal, saying the “entire theory of that verdict is fundamentally flawed.”

He said plaintiffs’ attorneys made it clear before the trial that they wanted to use the case to bankrupt him and other defendants.

“It was activism by means of lawsuits, and that is absolutely outrageous,” he said. “I’m doing fine right now because I had kind of accepted in my heart the worst that could happen. I had hope, of course, but I’m not terribly surprised or crestfallen.”

Jurors were unable to reach unanimous verdicts on two pivotal claims based on a 150-year-old federal law passed after the Civil War to shield freed slaves from violence and protect their civil rights. The Ku Klux Klan Act contains a rarely used provision that allows private citizens to sue other citizens for civil rights violations.

Under those claims, the plaintiffs asked the jury to find that the defendants engaged in a conspiracy to commit racially motivated violence and that they knew about the conspiracy but failed to stop it from being carried out. Jurors could not agree on those claims.

The jury did find the defendants liable under a Virginia state law conspiracy claim and awarded $11 million in damages to the plaintiffs under that claim. Jurors also found five of the main organizers of the rally liable under a claim that alleged they subjected two of the plaintiffs to intimidation, harassment or violence that was motivated by racial, religious or ethnic animosity. The jury awarded the plaintiffs $1.5 million in damages on that claim.

The final two claims were made against James Alex Fields Jr., an avowed Hitler admirer who intentionally drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters, killing one woman and injuring 19. The jury found Fields, who is serving life in prison for murder and hate crimes, liable on an assault or battery claim and awarded six plaintiffs just under $6.8 million in damages. The jury awarded the same plaintiffs nearly $6.7 million on a claim that Fields intentionally inflicted emotional distress on them.

Hundreds of white nationalists descended on Charlottesville for the Unite the Right rally on Aug. 11 and 12, 2017, ostensibly to protest city plans to remove a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee. During a march on the University of Virginia campus, white nationalists chanted “Jews will not replace us,” surrounded counterprotesters and threw tiki torches at them.

Then-President Donald Trump touched off a political firestorm when he failed to immediately denounce the white nationalists, saying there were “ very fine people on both sides. ”

The lawsuit funded by Integrity First for America, a nonprofit civil rights organization formed in response to the violence in Charlottesville, accused some of the country’s most well-known white nationalists of plotting the violence, including Jason Kessler, the rally’s main organizer; Spencer, who coined the term “alt-right” to describe a loosely connected band of white nationalists, neo-Nazis and others; and Christopher Cantwell, a white supremacist who became known as the “crying Nazi” for posting a tearful video when a warrant was issued for his arrest on assault charges for using pepper spray against counterdemonstrators.

The trial featured emotional testimony from people who were struck by Fields’ car or witnessed the attacks as well as plaintiffs who were beaten or subjected to racist taunts.

Melissa Blair, who was pushed out of the way as Fields’ car slammed into the crowd, described the horror of seeing her fiancé bleeding on the sidewalk and later learning that her friend, 32-year-old Heather Heyer, had been killed.

“I was confused. I was scared. I was worried about all the people that were there. It was a complete terror scene. It was blood everywhere. I was terrified,” said Blair, who became tearful several times during her testimony.

During their testimony, some of the defendants used racial epithets and defiantly expressed their support for white supremacy. They also blamed one another and the anti-fascist political movement known as antifa for the violence that erupted that weekend.

In closing arguments to the jury, the defendants and their lawyers tried to distance themselves from Fields and said the plaintiffs had not proved that they conspired to commit violence at the rally.

Before the trial, Judge Norman Moon issued default judgments against another seven defendants who refused to respond to the lawsuit. The court will decide damages against those defendants.

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## dannno

> The Charlottesville car driver was in the wrong. He went towards the crowd and a blocked street, not away from it.


He was following another car trying to get through the intersection, it wasn't a blocked street, he was lost driving in circles because so many streets were blocked. It was a crowd in the process of gathering. You can also see his brake lights going up to the crowd, then some guy hit his car with a stick and they were yelling at him so he thought they were going to attack him and couldn't go back.. but when he hit the crowd and pinned people between him and the car in front that had gone through a portion of the crowd, he realized reverse was the only option.

I still contend if he was doing this on purpose, he would have been going faster, and not using his brakes. I would also contend he wouldn't have $#@! his pants in fear.

Nobody can know for sure, it just doesn't make sense to me the way the media presented it.

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## Brian4Liberty

> ...
> 
> I still contend if he was doing this on purpose, he would have been going faster, and not using his brakes. I would also contend he wouldn't have $#@! his pants in fear.
> 
> Nobody can know for sure, it just doesn't make sense to me the way the media presented it.


The media never gives a full and accurate story. Never.

That being said, I don't remember the details on his accident, but did he lock up his brakes before hitting people? Was it beyond the capability of his vehicle to stop in time?

When he saw his way was blocked ahead, he should have gone into reverse right then.

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## Brian4Liberty

> 


Looks to me like he drove right into a crowd intentionally.

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## dannno

> The media never gives a full and accurate story. Never.
> 
> That being said, I don't remember the details on his accident, but did he lock up his brakes before hitting people? Was it beyond the capability of his vehicle to stop in time?
> 
> When he saw his way was blocked ahead, he should have gone into reverse right then.


His brake lights were on and he was slowing down, until somebody hit his car with some kind of baton or stick and people were yelling at him. Then he took his foot off the brakes, I do not believe he accelerated. 

Like I said, the crowd was building, so it probably looked like he could get through, he saw the car in front of him get through and thought he could too, but the car in front ended up getting stuck in the crowd, and he couldn't see the car there when he went through the crowd. 

I'm not sure he should be found totally innocent, but I do have a strong feeling that he was lost, was trying to get out of there and ended up going down that street, saw some cars that were seemingly able to get through the intersection, attempted himself, then when his car was attacked he probably did legitimately fear for his life.

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## dannno

> Looks to me like he drove right into a crowd intentionally.


He looked like he was going about 10 mph or so.. see when the camera pans up. Pretty sure if it was intentional he would have been going faster.

I also don't see brake lights on that video. I know I've seen a video of the incident with brake lights..

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## GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged

Is it safe to be in a car surrounded by rioters with no way to move?

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## devil21

> He looked like he was going about 10 mph or so.. see when the camera pans up. Pretty sure if it was intentional he would have been going faster.
> 
> I also don't see brake lights on that video. I know I've seen a video of the incident with brake lights..


There's always been a bunch of inconsistencies that don't add up regarding the Charlottesville incident.  Of course all the videos pointing them out have long since gone down memory hole.  Videos were posted even showing conclusively that the driver wasn't even Fields.  You'll not find them now, I'm sure.

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## dannno

> There's always been a bunch of inconsistencies that don't add up regarding the Charlottesville incident.  Of course all the videos pointing them out have long since gone down memory hole.  Videos were posted even showing conclusively that the driver wasn't even Fields.  You'll not find them now, I'm sure.


You will probably be interested in this thread... updated earlier today. The last post is a doozy.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Santa-Barbara

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## devil21

> You will probably be interested in this thread... updated earlier today. The last post is a doozy.
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Santa-Barbara


Skimmed it but don't see how it's relevant specifically to Fields/Cville.

I posted previously in Cville threads how media pics were photoshopped and filled with symbolism alluding to a psyop.  Probably this one also.  

Almost anything can be faked these days.  Did you see the disappearing foot during the Rittenhouse trial?  "Compression error" my ass...

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## dannno

> Skimmed it but don't see how it's relevant specifically to Fields/Cville.
> 
> I posted previously in Cville threads how media pics were photoshopped and filled with symbolism alluding to a psyop.  Probably this one also.  
> 
> Almost anything can be faked these days.  Did you see the disappearing foot during the Rittenhouse trial?  "Compression error" my ass...


It's relevant because the guy who they are claiming murdered the doctor and his family, they have text messages, GPS locations, materials used to kill them with his fingerprints, it's actually quite amazing how much evidence they have if it weren't so suspicious at the same time, but from the outside it looks like an open and shut case. One thing that threw me off was apparently he paid for an internet psychic and told the internet psychic he did something very bad and asked if he would get away with it. That sounds fake to me, that sounds like they were trying to slip in some solid evidence that was an admission of guilt. 

Defendant claims that they hacked all his $#@!, explained what the materials he bought were actually for, and the reason he did it is because he had invented a perpetual energy creating device and cured cancer and the feds wanted both him and this other natural doctor out of the picture. It would be hard to believe if you haven't seen all of the other stuff that was previously posted in the thread that seems to show this guy was in fact connected and an enemy of the federal government.

I don't know if I believe his story, but if I were an honest Prosecutor I would have asked him if he could bring his machine in to demonstrate, and if I were the Judge I would have allowed it. They went so far as to try and debunk his energy machine by saying during a previous demonstration it was hooked up to a car battery - he said the battery was used to get the machine going. They also said there was a wire that went outside of the room, he said that wire went to lights outside to power. Ok, so let's bring it in and figure it out once and for all?

It seems they could have cleared it all up in court, but they did not. 

They ended up finding him guilty, it was a bench trial.

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## dannno

*Leaked docs show FBI funded Ukrainian neo-Nazi “Azov Battalion” that orchestrated Charlottesville chaos to stoke racial division, destabilize West*

https://www.newstarget.com/2022-03-1...lle-chaos.html

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## mtr1979

> *Leaked docs show FBI funded Ukrainian neo-Nazi Azov Battalion that orchestrated Charlottesville chaos to stoke racial division, destabilize West*
> 
> https://www.newstarget.com/2022-03-1...lle-chaos.html


Read the linked article so this is what passes for journalism in 2022?  Phrases like "appear to indicate" and "believe to have participated" are in this article.  And the pdf file of the FBI agent's report is no better.  A few members of the rise above movement traveled to Germany, Italy, and the Ukraine to "celebrate Hitler's birthday."  Wow I'm terrified! This reminds me of how it was back in the 80's when there was a hysteria about heavy metal music, devil worshipping, and Dungeons and Dragons.  I guess neo-nazis are the new boogie man.

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## pcosmar

> Read the linked article so this is what passes for journalism in 2022?  Phrases like "appear to indicate" and "believe to have participated" are in this article.  And the pdf file of the FBI agent's report is no better.  A few members of the rise above movement traveled to Germany, Italy, and the Ukraine to "celebrate Hitler's birthday."  Wow I'm terrified! This reminds me of how it was back in the 80's when there was a hysteria about heavy metal music, devil worshipping, and Dungeons and Dragons.  I guess neo-nazis are the new boogie man.


The Azov Battalion is well Documented.
and there are several other  sects that want to be Azov.

and these are not "Neo-Nazi"  these are Real Nazi.

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## dannno

> Read the linked article so this is what passes for journalism in 2022?  Phrases like "appear to indicate" and "believe to have participated" are in this article.  And the pdf file of the FBI agent's report is no better.  A few members of the rise above movement traveled to Germany, Italy, and the Ukraine to "celebrate Hitler's birthday."  Wow I'm terrified! This reminds me of how it was back in the 80's when there was a hysteria about heavy metal music, devil worshipping, and Dungeons and Dragons.  I guess neo-nazis are the new boogie man.


People on the right have been questioning where some of the tiki torch march group came from, whether some came from foreign countries, where their funding came from, etc. There seemed to be a lack of interest in the individuals after the event took place, besides the targeting of leaders who were obvious federal agents like Richard Spencer. 

The group was clearly funded and used to smear the right who supported Trump. Even though Trump himself disavowed them completely, they lied and said that Trump said there were "good people on both sides" referring to the neo-nazis, even though he was referring to a separate group of protesters who wanted to keep the statues. Biden used this as the premise for his campaign and accused Trump of supporting the neo-nazis at the rally. He claimed THAT was the reason he had to run for President, because we can't have a President who supports neo-nazis..

The left used it as evidence that Trump supporters were largely white supremacist neo nazis who they could punch. It whipped up neo-nazi hysteria here in the US, where, neo-nazis are few and far between, groups are typically run by federal agents and have no power.

On the other hand, in Ukraine, neo-nazis have enjoyed the funding and support of the Ukrainian government with funding from the US and are even part of the national guard. They are able to gain military training and experience fighting and killing ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, muslims and are able to attack LGBT groups and individuals with impunity. 

It would not surprise me if many of the individuals in that tiki torch march came here from Ukraine.

----------


## mtr1979

> The Azov Battalion is well Documented.
> and there are several other  sects that want to be Azov.
> 
> and these are not "Neo-Nazi"  these are Real Nazi.


I've heard about the Azov Battalion, but how are they connected to Charlottesville?

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## pcosmar

> I've heard about the Azov Battalion, but how are they connected to Charlottesville?


Imported Instigators..

I believe there were some in Portland and Seattle as well.

----------


## mtr1979

> People on the right have been questioning where some of the tiki torch march group came from, whether some came from foreign countries, where their funding came from, etc. There seemed to be a lack of interest in the individuals after the event took place, besides the targeting of leaders who were obvious federal agents like Richard Spencer. 
> 
> The group was clearly funded and used to smear the right who supported Trump. Even though Trump himself disavowed them completely, they lied and said that Trump said there were "good people on both sides" referring to the neo-nazis, even though he was referring to a separate group of protesters who wanted to keep the statues. Biden used this as the premise for his campaign and accused Trump of supporting the neo-nazis at the rally. He claimed THAT was the reason he had to run for President, because we can't have a President who supports neo-nazis..
> 
> The left used it as evidence that Trump supporters were largely white supremacist neo nazis who they could punch. It whipped up neo-nazi hysteria here in the US, where, neo-nazis are few and far between, groups are typically run by federal agents and have no power.
> 
> On the other hand, in Ukraine, neo-nazis have enjoyed the funding and support of the Ukrainian government with funding from the US and are even part of the national guard. They are able to gain military training and experience fighting and killing ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine, muslims and are able to attack LGBT groups and individuals with impunity. 
> 
> It would not surprise me if many of the individuals in that tiki torch march came here from Ukraine.


If you look at the tiki torch protestors most of them look like total b!tches.  A lot of them look autistic.  Just a bunch of basement dwellers going to a protest larping.  The real white nationlist are in the AB serving life sentences.

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## dannno

> If you look at the tiki torch protestors most of them look like total b!tches.  A lot of them look autistic.  Just a bunch of basement dwellers going to a protest larping.  The real white nationlist are in the AB serving life sentences.


No, most of those are guys playing a role in prison so they don't get raped.

The real ones are committing genocide in Ukraine. They go to white supremecist marches by choice, take up weapons and kill Russians and Muslims.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...y-are-Ukranian

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## mtr1979

> No, most of those are guys playing a role in prison so they don't get raped.
> 
> The real ones are committing genocide in Ukraine. They go to white supremecist marches by choice, take up weapons and kill Russians and Muslims.
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...y-are-Ukranian


I threw you a softball and you went with it.  I was watching a tv show about prison gangs years ago and some guy who was a real 1488er before prison said the same thing.  That all the Nazis in prison weren't "real nazis."

----------

