# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Marijuana

## Scofield

I think I am finally going to do it.

Tomorrow I am going to smoke a blunt at the bench right outside my dorm room.  I am sick and $#@!ing tired of secretly walking to the woods to smoke a substance that only effects _myself._  I am a sovereign individual, and it is my right to do whatever the hell I want to do with my body, as long as I don't infringe on the rights of others.  When I smoke, no one else is involved.

It's time I stand up, and do what I think is right.   I plan to fight any punishment I receive, even if it takes weeks or even months to settle.  Well worth it in the path to freedom and liberty.

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## Bruno

Hope you either reconsider or don't get arrested.

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## JeNNiF00F00

I feel ya man.

Just be careful.  Peeps are ignorant about Cannabis and get quite nasty when they find out you smoke.  I have even run into a few on these boards from time to time.

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## Kludge

Instead of being arrested or expelled, you could just quit....


There are far more entertaining activities to do, IMO.


Unless, of course, you're addicted...

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## yongrel

Don't be stupid. Getting arrested for pot possession is a really good way to $#@! up your career prospects, especially if you want to work on anything government-related.

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## Conza88

> Don't be stupid. Getting arrested for pot possession is a really good way to $#@! up your career prospects,* especially if you want to work on anything government-related.*


Lol, for some reason I don't think he plans to...

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## Kludge

> Lol, for some reason I don't think he plans to...


He'll have difficulty... The public sector is growing while the private sector shrinks, and the trend is increasing in intensity.

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## nodope0695

> Don't be stupid. Getting arrested for pot possession is a really good way to $#@! up your career prospects, especially if you want to work on anything government-related.


Agreed.  

Besides, if you gonna do it, isn't it more fun to head into the woods anyway?

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## JeNNiF00F00

Dood if you want to smoke out in the open just go to Europe.  They have more personal freedoms than we do when it comes to weed.  They smoke it on the streets, in pubs everywhere.  No one has a problem with it and its not a big deal unless you cause problems and pull attention to yourself by acting an ass.  The cops there are not proactive like they are here, and are more reactive if anything.  That is the one thing I did like about Europe when I went this summer.

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## newyearsrevolution08

What a way to stand up for your rights.....

well to each his own I suppose.

If you are to do this at least get the news, MORE PEOPLE onboard with you and make a spectacle of it. Hell you will just get slapped on the wrist and fined for smoking it anyways....

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## Uriel999

> Instead of being arrested or expelled, you could just quit....
> 
> 
> There are far more entertaining activities to do, IMO.
> 
> 
> Unless, of course, you're addicted...


ganja is not addicting. Also, it makes all activities more entertaining. It has also been proven that it doesn't cause cancer in may actually be the cure for cancer...Instead of quitting, perhaps the OP should smoke more.

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## Working Poor

Personally I hope you won't do it. I know you are tired of hiding it but still why throw yourself to the wolves?

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## Cinderella

> It has also been proven that it doesn't cause cancer in may actually be the cure for cancer.


i think i smoke enough weed to be cancer free for the rest of my life 


to relpy to the poster...i think u should rethink this...u really dont want a silly weed charge to affect any financial aide u may be receiving

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## Scofield

I didn't go through with it, but I wish I had.

I believe in sovereignty and Liberty, and I feel I have the God given right to do whatever I want to my own body, as long as I am not infringing upon the rights of anyone else.  Smoking marijuana doesn't harm myself, nor anyone else, therefore I have the right to smoke whenever I want.

The more we sit back and let our liberties be tramped on, the more the government will do so.  I will gladly go battle this in court if I am ever caught smoking weed, in fact I'd relish such an opportunity.  Nothing would make me happier than to be caught smoking, and go to trial and have the judge find me innocent.

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## brandon

> I think I am finally going to do it.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to smoke a blunt at the bench right outside my dorm room.  I am sick and $#@!ing tired of secretly walking to the woods to smoke a substance that only effects _myself._  I am a sovereign individual, and it is my right to do whatever the hell I want to do with my body, as long as I don't infringe on the rights of others.  When I smoke, no one else is involved.
> 
> It's time I stand up, and do what I think is right.   I plan to fight any punishment I receive, even if it takes weeks or even months to settle.  Well worth it in the path to freedom and liberty.



Dont listen to the other posters. 

I think this is a fine idea, and you are a brave patriot if you will put your personal welfare on the line to stand up for your liberty.

Non-compliance is the best way to deal with an intrusive state.

I no longer smoke weed, but when I used to smoke I smoked in public often.

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## dannno

I used to smoke in front of my dorms... but not a blunt, usually a pinner or a cigarette filled with some herb. 

Ya.. we had to go off to the woods or seal in one of the dorm rooms to smoke a grip. It sucks sometimes, but it's also cool to go out in the woods sometimes too. Those can be the most fun seshes.

Be careful. You should consider getting a doctor's recommendation depending on the laws in your state. No sense in getting the police involved with your sovereignty.

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## SeanEdwards

You won't feel so good when the drug gestapo decide to make an example of you.

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## ladyjade3

It's a peaceful protest.  Do what you can to get yourself to a jury trial and see if anyone has the guts to hang it.

That's part of how the North got rid of slavery - jury nullification.  DA's will stop wasting their time arresting and trying people if they can't get convictions from juries.

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## BeFranklin

> I think I am finally going to do it.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to smoke a blunt at the bench right outside my dorm room.  I am sick and $#@!ing tired of secretly walking to the woods to smoke a substance that only effects _myself._  I am a sovereign individual, and it is my right to do whatever the hell I want to do with my body, as long as I don't infringe on the rights of others.  When I smoke, no one else is involved.
> 
> It's time I stand up, and do what I think is right.   I plan to fight any punishment I receive, even if it takes weeks or even months to settle.  Well worth it in the path to freedom and liberty.


If you are on any financial aid, grants, or scholorships, they are tied into no drug arrests, and you'll lose them.

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## Mach

> If you are on any financial aid, grants, or scholorships, they are tied into no drug arrests, and you'll lose them.


Good point. 

Also, what are the schools rules? They themselves will definitely want to use you as an example to teach everyone else what "not" to do.

If anything just fire up a roach cupped up in your hand as you walk around, you know, experimentation first. 

Also, get some tobacco and roll it up like a joint, then fire it up out in the crowd and see what kind of stares you get..... make sure you YouTube all of this too.

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## sratiug

> Instead of being arrested or expelled, you could just quit....
> 
> 
> There are far more entertaining activities to do, IMO.
> 
> 
> Unless, of course, you're addicted...


Do you ever eat anything with sugar or high fructose corn syrup or deadly artificial sweeteners?  Instead of killing yourself you could just quit, that is if you are not addicted.

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## torchbearer

> Do you ever eat anything with sugar or high fructose corn syrup or deadly artificial sweeteners?  Instead of killing yourself you could just quit, that is if you are not addicted.


+1.
Anyone who uses marijuana and addiction in the same sentence has been watching too much government propaganda.

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## Kludge

All habits are addicting. Marijuana is not in 90%+ of sold prepared food, I don't believe.

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## Scofield

> All habits are addicting. Marijuana is not in 90%+ of sold prepared food, I don't believe.


Marijuana is not physically addicting, neither is eating chocolate ice cream.

Yet, there are days where I am like "damn, I could really go for a blunt/ice cream right now."  So, should we ban ice cream for it's "addictability?"

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## Cleaner44

> Instead of being arrested or expelled, you could just quit....
> 
> 
> There are far more entertaining activities to do, IMO.
> 
> 
> Unless, of course, you're addicted...


Uh... marijuana is non addictive. I will guess here that you have no experience and are ignorant? A person can become psychologically dependent with pot but there is no addiction and no withdrawl symptoms when quitting.

F-in Neocon

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## JoshLowry

Addiction is different for every person.

I think for the majority smoking marijuana is about as addicting as drinking water instead of soda.

Hopefully you don't get expelled from school.

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## UnReconstructed

> I think I am finally going to do it.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to smoke a blunt at the bench right outside my dorm room.  I am sick and $#@!ing tired of secretly walking to the woods to smoke a substance that only effects _myself._  I am a sovereign individual, and it is my right to do whatever the hell I want to do with my body, as long as I don't infringe on the rights of others.  When I smoke, no one else is involved.
> 
> It's time I stand up, and do what I think is right.   I plan to fight any punishment I receive, even if it takes weeks or even months to settle.  Well worth it in the path to freedom and liberty.


i support you.

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## constituent

we pretty much always smoked in public when i was younger, walking up the road and whatnot.

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## ARealConservative

Have you considered using a vaporizer instead of smoking it?

The smell is gone, you gain health benefits, and you can take bigger hits - creating a stronger intoxication.

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## Kludge

> So, should we ban ice cream for it's "addictability?"


I don't recall ever saying anything even suggesting I thought marijuana should be banned...

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## torchbearer

Yeah, you should see how many pot smokers are at the methadone clinic, that $#@! is wicked. 

Cigerettes are addictive.
Alcohol is addictive.
Marijuana is not addictive.
Yeah, I know... government says its the devils weed.

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## torchbearer

> Have you considered using a vaporizer instead of smoking it?
> 
> The smell is gone, you gain health benefits, and you can take bigger hits - creating a stronger intoxication.


Vaporizers are good, but require moist material.
Black markets often provide sub-par medicines.

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## Roxi

my thoughts:

yes you should be able to smoke if you want, however on campus you are not on your own private property, other people around you may not like the smell or whatever of it so its within their right to complain if your doing it around them.

so unless you are on your own property you have no right to complain about not being able to smoke

not only that but if you want to help pursue the fight for liberty, i suggest you keep your nose clean and fight the battle a different way

ill continue smoking in private, not bothering anyone else

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## Roxi

and to quote someone elses thoughts on drugs: 

"
DARE said drugs would make think bugs were on my skin and make me want to steal stereos.  When I found out pot ain't like that, I began to wonder whether they were lying about the other drugs too.  They were right about some of the other ones, but it was a painful lesson in dishonesty and scare tactics."

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## Scofield

> my thoughts:
> 
> yes you should be able to smoke if you want, however on campus you are not on your own private property, other people around you may not like the smell or whatever of it so its within their right to complain if your doing it around them.
> 
> so unless you are on your own property you have no right to complain about not being able to smoke
> 
> not only that but if you want to help pursue the fight for liberty, i suggest you keep your nose clean and fight the battle a different way
> 
> ill continue smoking in private, not bothering anyone else


I am at a Public University (Suny Binghamton), not Private.  My tax dollars are going to the school, thus, I should have the same rights I do on public property.  

It is my body, I HAVE the power to do whatever I want to do with it, regardless of what anyone else thinks. 

I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke, yet it's a-okay for smokers to smoke their cigs right outside my dorm.  Yet, I am unable to smoke a blunt.  What gives?  Your "people can complain" argument is moot.

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## torchbearer

> I am at a Public University (Suny Binghamton), not Private.  My tax dollars are going to the school, thus, I should have the same rights I do on public property.  
> 
> It is my body, I HAVE the power to do whatever I want to do with it, regardless of what anyone else thinks. 
> 
> I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke, yet it's a-okay for smokers to smoke their cigs right outside my dorm.  Yet, I am unable to smoke a blunt.  What gives?  Your "people can complain" argument is moot.


property rights apply only to private property, once something becomes public, that just means government property. you have no rights on public property.

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## constituent

> property rights apply only to private property, once something becomes public, that just means government property. you have no rights on public property.


that's exactly right.

lol @ people who believe in "their" government.

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## JoshLowry

> you have no rights on public property.

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## torchbearer

> 


public property is government owned. government decides what privileges you have on their property.

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## BeFranklin

Marijuana is addictive.

Also, its an excellent excuse to infillitrate political organizations and not call it infillitrating political organizations since that is illegal in America.  Case in point, I remember when being with the LP in Washington, that one of the key members was selling grow lamps - encouraging everyone to come to his store - and turning over lists of customers to the government.

On hindsight, some of the disruptive and organization growth damaging things he was advocating made a lot of sense.

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## torchbearer

> Marijuana is addictive.
> 
> Also, its an excellent excuse to infillitrate political organizations and not call it infillitrating political organizations since that is illegal in America.  Case in point, I remember when being with the LP in Washington, that one of the key members was selling grow lamps - encouraging everyone to come to his store - and turning over lists of customers to the government.
> 
> On hindsight, some of the disruptive and organization growth damaging things he was advocating made a lot of sense.


What chemical in marijuana is addictive? And how does it cause the brain to become dependant on it?

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## Kludge

> public property is government owned. government decides what privileges you have on their property.


People own gov't, thus people decide what rights are allowed on public property...?

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## Scofield

> public property is government owned. government decides what privileges you have on their property.


We own the government, thus it is OUR property.

Do you see what I did there?

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## torchbearer

> We own the government, thus it is OUR property.
> 
> Do you see what I did there?


Then go smoke a joint on "public property". Its "yours".

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## torchbearer

> People own gov't, thus people decide what rights are allowed on public property...?


People are suppose to own the government. If you haven't noticed, we don't, nor do our representatives listen to us (bail-out?).
We don't own the government nor do we have rights on the ruling elites property.

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## Scofield

> Then go smoke a joint on "public property". Its "yours".


It is mine.  It's the fact that the government doesn't recongize this which endangers my Liberty.

In order for them to recognize it, someone must stand up and do something.  We won't accomplish anything if we are too timid to actually stand up and rebel.

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## torchbearer

And since you "think" we the people own public property, go tell your local "public school" teachers what to teach your kid.
Wait- only the government can do that.... tell your government what to teach your kids... wait, they don't care what you think.
hmmm.....

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## torchbearer

> It is mine.  It's the fact that the government doesn't recongize this which endangers my Liberty.
> 
> In order for them to recognize it, someone must stand up and do something.  We won't accomplish anything if we are too timid to actually stand up and rebel.


Public property means, no one owns it but the government who dictates the rules, and the government isn't listening to you.
Its an abomination to property rights.

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## torchbearer

By definition, a right means you need no permission from any higher authority.
On public property, you need permission. thus, you have privileges on public property.

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## Kludge

> go tell your local "public school" teachers what to teach you kid.


PTAs serve as a very effective communication tool for parents and teachers alike. Obviously, the gov't tries to do a one-size-fits-all federal education system that doesn't work and teachers are bound by the guidelines set directly and indirectly. Thus, they cannot not teach specifically as you wish as there are other parents to keep in mind, but many (unfortunately, not even close to all) I know try their best to individualize education to the best of their ability.

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## torchbearer

> PTAs serve as a very effective communication tool for parents and teachers alike. Obviously, the gov't tries to do a one-size-fits-all federal education system that doesn't work and teachers are bound by the guidelines set directly and indirectly. Thus, they cannot not teach specifically as you wish as there are other parents to keep in mind, but many (unfortunately, not even close to all) I know try their best to individualize education to the best of their ability.


You need government approval to change anything in the public school. You need a higher authority. You have no right over the public school, only privleges granted by the collective (in theory), but by the ruling elite (in practice)

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## torchbearer

For a detailed education on this topic: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=128145

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## Scofield

> By definition, a right means you need no permission from any higher authority.
> On public property, you need permission. thus, you have privileges on public property.


Yes, and you need permission (via a "Free Speech Zone") to us your freedom of speeh.  

It's a $#@!ed up world we live in.

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## torchbearer

> Yes, and you need permission (via a "Free Speech Zone") to us your freedom of speeh.  
> 
> It's a $#@!ed up world we live in.


And thus, you have no "rights" on public property... and in reality, you have fewer rights on your own property because we are serfs to the government.
How does the government have the "right" to tax your property if it doesn't own it?
Well, it does own it, it has ultimate right over it, and it's letting you use it as long as you keep paying the king's taxes.
If you stop paying the king's taxes, they send in the shire reeve (sheriff) and remove you from their property and auction it off to another serf.

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## Scofield

> And thus, you have no "rights" on public property... and in reality, you have fewer rights on your own property because we are serfs to the government.
> How does the government have the "right" to tax your property if it doesn't own it?
> Well, it does own it, it has ultimate right over it, and it's letting you use it as long as you keep paying the king's taxes.
> If you stop paying the king's taxes, they send in the shire reeve (sheriff) and remove you from their property and auction it off to another serf.


Not if you get Allodial title.

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## torchbearer

> Not if you get Allodial title.


How many states allow Allodial title?

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## Kludge

> How many states allow Allodial title?


I hear Texas still does, though I may be wrong.

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## torchbearer

> I hear Texas still does, though I may be wrong.


Only if the governor grants it. 
Kinda makes him king, doesn't it?

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## Kludge

> Only if the governor grants it. 
> Kinda makes him king, doesn't it?


Benevolent, at least... Or corrupt.

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## torchbearer

> Benevolent, at least... Or corrupt.


A king by birth has a greater chance of being benevolent.
One that is elected owes certain special interest and ignores others.
We basically have elected monarchy and nobility here. And the rich seem to be the only ones in that caste.
Out of the entire congress, we have one benevolent noble.

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## torchbearer

So- for on topic discussion.
Don't smoke the joint on campus. It may be your god given right to smoke, but not on the king's property.
Hell, not even on your own property does the king allow you to smoke a joint, because ultimately, it is the kings. ie, government ruling class.

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## Scofield

Except, with my God given right of Tial by Jury, I can try to get Jury Nullification.

That is the only thing I can hope for.  And personally, I am willing to risk it.

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## Signzit

> A king by birth has a greater chance of being benevolent.
> One that is elected owes certain special interest and ignores others.
> We basically have elected monarchy and nobility here. And the rich seem to be the only ones in that caste.
> Out of the entire congress, we have one benevolent noble.



We are Slaves via Contracts, Visible and Invisible. If we could remove these contracts, We can again claim a Sovereign Status. 

Many of these contracts are "Adhesion Contracts". An Adhesion Contract is like a Tar Baby, if you touch it, and Accept an Offer, it becomes a new contract! (check it: "like a Stimulus check from the Gobment"?)

With this new contract comes new rules. They twist, & wrap the, "Free You", in one set of contract rules, after another set of contract rules, until you are owned by over-lapping agreements; whether they are visible contracts created with an "Offer & your Acceptance", or created behind your back- your silence is also Acquiescence by default. (it's ridged)

I found this stuff a while back!! Ever try to "unlearn", (Like a bad golf swing or funky grip.) I post it, just to post it somewhere, in hopes it might find fertile minds and sprout into our new Liberty Tree. 

Only with ALL of the truth, will Liberty Reign. "It's a setting Sun, Franklin"

Invisible Contracts Adhesion Contracts

a rough break down laid out quite well IMO. This guy is Amish so his lingo is... you know. His mind however is very UNCLOUDED and very unlike our minds, as Citizens of the UNTIED STATES.
http://yhvh.name/index.php?w=842

A zip file loaded: by, George Mercier - Invisible Contracts
http://www.statusisfreedom.com/docum...0Contracts.zip

As far as Pot goes... If it's a "Gateway Drug" I know some folks that have been stuck in the gate for 40 years or more. Maybe this is addiction but they not moved on to "Other Harder..." and seem to be quite successful people with thriving families & SELF-made careers, because they are counterculture types who refuse to compromise their principles to the Man.
The gig is up on that game too and who will be ahead of the curve on that..? Counterculture people.

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## mannycp

I really enjoyed reading this thread

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## Wendi

> public property is government owned. government decides what privileges you have on their property.


 The government is [supposed to be] the people.  Thus, we should decide what rights we have on our property

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## brandon

> Except, with my God given right of Tial by Jury, I can try to get Jury Nullification.
> 
> That is the only thing I can hope for.  And personally, I am willing to risk it.


You're not going to get a trial by jury for possesion of marijuana. Sorry...it's just not going to happen.

You only have a constitutional right to trial by jury when you are being charged with a felony.

You're going to get a trial by a judge. If you plead not guilty, the Prosecuter will offer you a plea bargain such as lowering the offense to disorderly conduct. If you don't take the plea bargain, then the judge will most likely sentence you to like 6 months of prohbation or something. Depends where u live.

You still will get a chance to say your piece about liberty in the courtroom and have it on the record though.

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## torchbearer

> The government is [supposed to be] the people.  Thus, we should decide what rights we have on our property


its not the people's government. that is why we must alter or abolish it.

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## constituent

> its not the people's government. That is why we must alter or abolish it.


\/     \/     \/





> so hard to do and so easy to say, but sometimes--sometimes--you just have to walk away.

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## torchbearer

> \/     \/     \/


cliche and proverbial doesn't equal truth.



> an apple a day keeps the doctor away.


Try that prescription and let me know how much truth is in it.

I'm taking the steps necesary to do what i say. If the million people who voted for ron paul did the same, we'd have our government back.
Or we could just exchange "chaotic" snide remarks on the internet. That has always changed the world.

Maybe I could put up some quotes and links to wiki like TW.

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## sratiug

> You're not going to get a trial by jury for possesion of marijuana. Sorry...it's just not going to happen.
> 
> You only have a constitutional right to trial by jury when you are being charged with a felony.
> 
> You're going to get a trial by a judge. If you plead not guilty, the Prosecuter will offer you a plea bargain such as lowering the offense to disorderly conduct. If you don't take the plea bargain, then the judge will most likely sentence you to like 6 months of prohbation or something. Depends where u live.
> 
> You still will get a chance to say your piece about liberty in the courtroom and have it on the record though.


What about this?




> The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

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## brandon

> What about this?


Good question.  I tried to buy a gun the other day and got denied. What about this?




> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


The point is, you're right in your interpretation of the constitution, but our country no longer follows the constitution.

In fact, the 6th amendment expands on the clause you quoted... 


> In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed.


However, the supreme court has ruled that if the minimum sentence for the crime you are being charged with is less then 6th months in jail, neither of these two clauses apply. In such cases, the states may set their own rule regarding if they allow trial by jury.

I'm not sure how the supreme court interpreted the words "all criminal prosecutions" in the 6th amendment to mean "only some criminal prosecutions." I would love to know.

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## mrsat_98

> Good question.  I tried to buy a gun the other day and got denied. What about this?
> 
> 
> 
> The point is, you're right in your interpretation of the constitution, but our country no longer follows the constitution.
> 
> In fact, the 6th amendment expands on the clause you quoted... 
> 
> However, the supreme court has ruled that if the minimum sentence for the crime you are being charged with is less then 6th months in jail, neither of these two clauses apply. In such cases, the states may set their own rule regarding if they allow trial by jury.
> ...


I dont think a MJ smoker will be charged with a "crime" but with an offense. This is detailed in War and Emergency Powers by Eugene Schroder. If you recall there is a war on drugs. I would not  try to get a MJ conviction for the various reasons cited in this thread but even worse in  Most States there is a felony charge for count number 2. If you want to smoke in Public get a Mediacial MJ license and live in a state thats claims its KEWL.

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## JeNNiF00F00

What it all comes down to is that the issue shouldn't even be an issue.  There should be no charges, offenses, or penalties for smoking cannabis.  One should also not have to have a license to smoke it.  Medical problems or not it just should not be an issue.

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## brandon

> I dont think a MJ smoker will be charged with a "crime" but with an offense.



In most places possession of a small amount of marijuana is a misdemeanor. Some areas have "decriminalized" it, meaning that you will get a summary offense instead of a misdemeanor.

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## tron paul

Your drug is lower in the Moral Hierarchy than Anglo adulterants like noble, profitable tobacco and blessed, Christian alcohol.  And sweet sweet coffee, ambrosia of the WASPS.

Tell the judge you consider yourself a political prisoner, and only a coward would waste taxpayer money during a fiscal crises by sending a citizen to jail for malus prohibita.

Then read your jury Clarence Thomas' dissent from the Raich v Ashcroft to make it clear that adhering to federal prohibition is betraying the Constitution, and opens up many cans of "turnaround is fair play" worms.

Don't forget to cite the Heller decision and argue that the 9th and 10th Amendments are not dead letters.  Then go after the DA's bar membership for infidelity to his Oath.

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## Scofield

Bump.   Here is my plan:

I will purposefully get caught smoking marijuana.  When arrested, I will ask [demand if necessary] a trial by jury, as Article III section II states that "The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury."  I will then persuade the jury to find me "not guilty" via jury nullification.

Reasons for finding me not guilty,

1. Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
- God gave me the right of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.  Because of this, it is my right to live my Life in the way I want.  My choice to smoke marijuana doesn't harm anyone else's rights of Life, Liberty, or pursuit of Happiness.  

2. 9th Amendment:  "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." 
- Just because the United States Constitution doesn't state "Marijuana is legal" doesn't make it illegal.  The whole idea of Liberty is that I am free from control, and that I am my own sovereign being with the choice to do with my life as I please (again, as long as I don't violate your rights).   According to the Founding Father's (you know, the guys who fought and died for our freedoms), drug use is absolutely Constitutional; however, it's when you abuse drugs and violate someone else's rights where the punishment should start.

3. 10th Amendment:  "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."  
- No where in the United States Constitution does it state "Marijuana is illegal" or "Marijuana is legal."  Thus, according to the 10th Amendment, the Federal Government has *NO* jurisdiction over the matter.  And since I am talking about my own Liberty, the issue of marijuana use is now delegated to Me [the people].

I would also mention: Victimless crime, cruel and unusal punishment for a victimless crime, medical benefits, alcohol/tobacco/nicotine legality vs. marijuana illegality, jury nullification, liberty, sovereignty, etc..
----

Now, does anyone have any suggestions.  In my heart I know I would be just in doing this; however, I am unsure whether or not I still should go through with it.  Then again, if I won't do it, who will?

_



			
				All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.
			
		

_- Edmund Burke.

_



			
				It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.
			
		

_
- Samuel Adams

_



			
				To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men.
			
		

_- Abraham Lincoln

(I realize I sound foolish for using these quotes when talking about marijuana, but the road to freedom must start somewhere.)

----------


## Bruno

Didn't we already go through this once?  No, don't do it.  

If you want to help the cause, join Norml or other groups and become active in your community.  Or use the money to hire an attorney for someone who already got caught and test your jury nullification plan with someone who already is in need of help.  And you stay out of jail.  

The head of Iowa Normal, Carl Olson, quit smoking so he would not be fearful of being arrested.  he was then able to be much more active for his cause. You could use your voice and your mind to do much more than get yourself arrested and lose in court.

----------


## Scofield

> Didn't we already go through this once?  No, don't do it.  
> 
> If you want to help the cause, join Norml or other groups and become active in your community.  Or use the money to hire an attorney for someone who already got caught and test your jury nullification plan with someone who already is in need of help.  And you stay out of jail.  
> 
> The head of Iowa Normal, Carl Olson, quit smoking so he would not be fearful of being arrested.  he was then able to be much more active for his cause. You could use your voice and your mind to do much more than get yourself arrested and lose in court.





> Give me Liberty, or give me Death!"


- Patrick Henry.

I refuse to stand in the background and find a "pawn" to do the dirty work for me.   If I want my freedoms, it is my duty to fight for them.  Sure, it'd be a lot "safer" for me to use someone else as a guinnea pig, but it's not the _right_ thing to do. 

There is also the fact that I don't know anyone who has been caught.

----------


## Bruno

> - Patrick Henry.
> 
> I refuse to stand in the background and find a "pawn" to do the dirty work for me.   If I want my freedoms, it is my duty to fight for them.  Sure, it'd be a lot "safer" for me to use someone else as a guinnea pig, but it's not the _right_ thing to do. 
> 
> There is also the fact that I don't know anyone who has been caught.



uh, i wasn't suggesting you use a "pawn", but rather offer to pay for a better attorney than a public defender to represent someone who is already in trouble and in need of representation.  

I'm sure there are local pro-marijuana groups that could you point you in the right direction.  I won my case, technically it didn't go to a trial,  on a motion to supress the evidence, and paid for a good attorney.  If I wouldn't have been able to afford one, I'm sure I would have been found guilty.  

what about the rest of my post?  wouldn't that be better than risking jail?  

You might want to check up on your local jury nullification laws, too.  It doesn't always work out.  It didn't for Ed Rosenthal 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163877,00.html

----------


## brandon

If you want to do it, do it. Make sure you weigh the consequences though. If you are convicted of possesion of marijuana, you may face a couple months of probation. You also will have a drug related offense on your record for a the rest of your life which may

1. Bar you from employment with certain companies
2. Prohibit you from owning a weapon or weapons permit in many states
3. prohibit you from getting some student loans and scholarships
4. Possibly prohibit you from getting government security clearance

If you are willing to risk all of that, then go for it.

----------


## MRoCkEd

Imagine if thousands of people gathered in a public park and smoked weed together

----------


## dannno

> Imagine if thousands of people gathered in a public park and smoked weed together





Santa Cruz, CA
4/20/2007

----------


## SnappleLlama

> Imagine if thousands of people gathered in a public park and smoked weed together


No, imagine if thousands of people gathered together to smoke a joint the size of a telephone pole!

----------


## brandon



----------


## torchbearer

> 


His pet elephant ate his stash.

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

Shoulda hot boxed it.

----------


## tsopranos

> Imagine if thousands of people gathered in a public park and smoked weed together


http://www.globalmarijuanamarch.org/

I went to one of these marches back when I was in college in NJ.  I requested a bunch of promotional material (leaflets which they sent for free), and put them on practically every car @ my college campus parking lot.

I can't recall the exact turnout, but it was huge...several thousand people, blocks & blocks of streets closed down, people walking to Central Park holding signs and chanting on a gorgeous sunny day.  I don't think I've ever seen an event that could bring together the diversity of people I saw that day.

My brother and I sparked up as we settled into the park with thousands of others.  Jamaican music playing in the background, it was a site to be seen.

----------


## tsopranos

Check out around 4:43 in this clip...haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2c1OoIW-w

----------


## Wendi

> No, imagine if thousands of people gathered together to smoke a joint the size of a telephone pole!


 That would be seriously funny

----------


## MRoCkEd

I think I'll write my next paper on legalizing weed - or should I do legalizing all drugs?

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> I think I'll write my next paper on legalizing weed - or should I do legalizing all drugs?


I think it would be best to do a paper on WHAT DRUGS are actually killing people versus the "fear tactics" they place on naturally growing herbs which do not cause deaths at all.

I would talk about tobacco and alcohol VERSUS hard drugs and soft drugs for that matter.

My thinking is this, most heroin addicts don't last long, either they grow out of it or they die. Same thing goes with acid, meth and the actual KILLERS out there that parents of course should be aware of and keep their KIDS from. Those who do these MAN MADE drugs like crack, meth and heroin are not FULL SCALE like the legal drugs that are currently allowed and that kill kids, teens and adults DAILY like cigarettes and tobacco.

I would love to see a comparison paper on MARIJUANA dangers versus alcohol and tobacco dangers. Show PARENTS which ones they SHOULD actually worry about their kids doing and potentially dieing from.

I would show the medical side of marijuana and then show the cancer side of tobacco and liver disease from alcohol. Show the medical benefits of the ILLEGAL marijuana and then show the downsides to the 100% legal alcohol and tobacco.

I think a comparison paper would really sink in to some. I wonder if they have average life span comparisons from someone who smokes weed versus someone who smokes cigs or drinks alcohol.

Point out that cancer has NEVER been caused my marijuana or any deaths related to it then show the DAILY death toll from the so called "legal drugs".

To put the icing on the cake, you can talk about WHY they wanted it banned, talk about refer madness and the b.s. they spewed in that film as well as the many doctors they had LIE back then and agree with that stupid scare tactic.

Make their whole entire case AGAINST herb to look like a joke and make ZERO sense to those in the class and maybe even those who are AGAINST terrible drugs like marijuana might think twice as they pop their prescription drugs, tobacco and alcohol.

Bring a political side into it as well with stats, states voting records as far as how many polls and votes have gone on with a usual 50%+ voting FOR the legalization of marijuana and STILL the fed says NO. 

---

One thing I got alot was "well it should be illegal anyways!"... I responded with something along the lines of. If there was something you were doing like eating unhealthy for instance. Should it be up to the government to MAKE YOU eat healthy or potentially go to jail or fined?

the usual response is,"well that would be stupid".

Always a nice response and makes me smile most times.

The come back with a simple - So if you are able to put things in your body that can harm or potential hurt you then why can't other people make that same decision as to what they put in their bodies?

Those who want to do crank will do it, those who want to drink will do that, those who eat until they are obese will do that as well. Free will does not mean doing what is right ALL THE TIME but making your own decisions no matter the consequences whether wrong or right in the eyes of others and especially our government.

--

 Talk about the benefits of legalizing hemp, talk about the CLEAN AND GREEN possibilities that could come from it as well. People are on a green tech trip right now so might as well jump on that as well.

---

Bring up medical savings - co-ops that GIVE medicine to patients versus having them have to deal with thousand dollar a month PILL BILLS which usually have more side effects then it does a cure or "fix". 

there are really so many ways you can go with a paper like that, once you write it please toss it up here so we can read it. If you want that is....

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Santa Cruz, CA
> 4/20/2007


We did something like that at the college campus here in Fresno when I was around 19 or so. We sat in a big ol circle and people just sparked up and we just kept passing around whatever was handed to us. A great day, no cops and everything was peaceful which was expected of course.

------------------------

----------


## MRoCkEd

My professor hasn't given out the assignment yet, but he said it will be a persuasive essay in which we choose a social issue and defend our side while "attacking" the other side. So I'm not sure a drug comparison essay would make sense in this case, though that is a great idea. However, maybe I can argue for the legalization of marijuana based on some points such as: personal freedom, not as bad as other legal drugs, medical benefits, criminal records/prison sentences unnecessary for nonviolent drug offenders. If I choose to argue legalizing ALL drugs, I could talk about how drug prohibition actually leads to more crime. Thanks for the ideas. If I do get to write an essay on this topic I will definitely post it here.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I think I'll write my next paper on legalizing weed - or should I do legalizing all drugs?


Watch out!  

I did a paper for a class in college on the subject of the pros and cons of marijuana.

I did a huge amount of research in the college library on the subject and used a lot of government statistics.  It was a very well written paper but the professor was not impressed and gave me a lousy grade.  I don't believe it was so much the way the paper was written or the research that went into it, but rather the subject that he objected to.

----------


## satchelmcqueen

> I think I am finally going to do it.
> 
> Tomorrow I am going to smoke a blunt at the bench right outside my dorm room.  I am sick and $#@!ing tired of secretly walking to the woods to smoke a substance that only effects _myself._  I am a sovereign individual, and it is my right to do whatever the hell I want to do with my body, as long as I don't infringe on the rights of others.  When I smoke, no one else is involved.
> 
> It's time I stand up, and do what I think is right.   I plan to fight any punishment I receive, even if it takes weeks or even months to settle.  Well worth it in the path to freedom and liberty.


i agree with you, but please consider what you are doing. if anyone who is against using this sees you, than they will automatically feel you are effecting them and call the cops. you will be arrested and thrown out of school. pick your battles. this isnt one to pickimo. 

good luck and let us know what happens if you do this.

----------


## DamianTV

No offense but its also not a good idea to put info up like this on the web for EVERYONE to read.  Especially if you provide some sort of personally identifiable information, such as some retards on MySpace do constantly.  Hi my name is Joe Bob Billy Bob and my Social Security Number is 123-45-6789 and Im gonna smoke a blut at such and such an address at this time exactly.  I wonder how I got caught!

----------


## The_Orlonater

Drink some tea.

----------


## Scofield

I'm still thinking about doing it.

In the grand scheme of things, I could save tens of thousands of lives by getting caught.  If I can set a precedent, and convince our Legislature to remove the ban on marijuana, all those in prison for marijuana possession/use/selling/growing would be released from prison.  

How many people can say they affected that many people?

----------


## silverlinkx2

I think pot personally is disgusting and 99% of the pot smokers I meet I absolutely despise. Never done it myself and only very rarely will I meet a true chill dude or true hippie guy, most pot smokers I meet are obnoxious over-opiniated self-entitled $#@!s. 

That being said however, it bothers me when the police place more of a priority over targeting drugs users than violent/property crimes. It should be decriminalized in my opinion. It's a f-ing plant that grows in the ground, how do you criminalize something in nature? But then again, the same thing could be said about uranium and plutonium, it's not the substance but what ppl do with the substance that warrants its legality. All hard drugs (meth, crack etc) should probably stay banned.

I'd also probably support the death penalty for most dealers/distributors. They do this in the Phillipines and in Thailand afaik.

----------


## Dieseler

> We sat in a big ol circle and people just sparked up and we just kept passing around whatever was handed to us.


Yeah, I did that one time to.
Next thing I know I'm hearing a train approaching and think wow, the Outlaws are gonna play Train, Train by Blackfoot.
I kinda figured out that wasn't the case when I blacked out while still standing and had to be lead out of the crowd.
Not very smart on my part. 
I was only 13 at the time though.
I guess hard lessons do come hard.
I'm fortunate to have a had a date who was smarter than me.
Oh, one more thing.
You, who purchase this crap are the ones who perpetuate this bull$#@! War on Drugs.
This is a war on you, and YOU are the ones who are funding it.
Blood on your hands. 
Stop.
You can't argue with this.
Stop buying it and stop selling it and your problems will disappear.
If you think its just a weed, let it be so.
Don't feed the machine.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Yeah, I did that one time to.
> Next thing I know I'm hearing a train approaching and think wow, the Outlaws are gonna play Train, Train by Blackfoot.
> I kinda figured out that wasn't the case when I blacked out while still standing and had to be lead out of the crowd.
> Not very smart on my part. 
> I was only 13 at the time though.
> I guess hard lessons do come hard.
> I'm fortunate to have a had a date who was smarter than me.
> Oh, one more thing.
> You, who purchase this crap are the ones who perpetuate this bull$#@! War on Drugs.
> ...


As you try and preach to a medical marijuana card holder about "what I am funding" lol.... ok bud.

If you are trying to tell people to stop buying bud from dealers then where do you expect them to get their medication IF they cannot get a card?

Also you have your anger directed at the wrong people. A plant should NOT be illegal in the first damn place so to tell people to STOP just because of some b.s. laws that should not be there.... I don't see that going too far is all.

----------


## Dieseler

> As you try and preach to a medical marijuana card holder about "what I am funding" lol.... ok bud.


I personally have never met a user who did it for medical reasons.
You are a rare bird. You live in California?




> If you are trying to tell people to stop buying bud from dealers then where do you expect them to get their medication IF they cannot get a card?


If you are going to make a victim of yourself why don't you just grow it yourself. At least you can get the blood off your hands and keep the responsibility in your own hands. It is just a weed, right?
Don't feed the machine. If your buying it from a dealer these days, someone is dieing in actual wars in other places outside your little world.




> Also you have your anger directed at the wrong people. A plant should NOT be illegal in the first damn place so to tell people to STOP just because of some b.s. laws that should not be there.... I don't see that going too far is all.


I am absolutely not angry with you.
I'm just telling you like it is. The laws are there because there is big money involved.
Don't be the reason the law is there.

----------


## Dieseler

Man up.
If you want the crap grow it yourself.
Quit paying some other unscrupulous bastards to do your dirty work for you.
People are dieing by the hundreds on a daily basis
and you make this retarded argument.
Man up. Its just a $#@!ing weed.
If you don't, well heres your FRN contributions at work.

http://www.google.com/search?q=behea...ient=firefox-a

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> I personally have never met a user who did it for medical reasons.
> You are a rare bird. You live in California?
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to make a victim of yourself why don't you just grow it yourself. At least you can get the blood off your hands and keep the responsibility in your own hands. It is just a weed, right?
> Don't feed the machine. If your buying it from a dealer these days, someone is dieing in actual wars in other places outside your little world.
> 
> 
> ...


You really have no clue at all BUT hey you seem to think you do.... whatever works for you.

I will stop feeding the machine by not buying drugs from $#@!ty drug dealers, wow what an amazing revelation...

Yes california , we have shops all over the place. You walk in and buy it, so if I am feeding anything it is the dispensaries, tax revenue odds are but not dope dealers.

As far as people dying over MARIJUANA lol yes that is what people shoot each other over daily... yes herb....

thank you... you have opened my eyes very wide.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Man up.
> If you want the crap grow it yourself.
> Quit paying some other unscrupulous bastards to do your dirty work for you.
> People are dieing by the hundreds on a daily basis
> and you make this retarded argument.
> Man up. Its just a $#@!ing weed.
> If you don't, well heres your FRN contributions at work.
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=behea...ient=firefox-a


Man up, how is growing a plant being a man. Do you even know what you are even talking about.

Let me guess , under 25?

----------


## Dieseler

No, I'm 40.
Been there done that.
I'm definitely not holier than thou.
My point in the matter has already been stated.
If you grow your own $#@! and keep it to yourself at least your not responsible for someone else's head getting stuck on a platter.
Once you become responsible for your own actions then you can rightly afford to piss and moan about being persecuted.
If you buy the $#@! and or sell the $#@! in the state that the situation is now, in my opinion your part of the problem and complicit to murder.
Its your conscience otherwise.
If this doesn't apply to you, feel free to disregard.
I assume your problem, as a medical marijuana user, is that you get a prescription, buy from the state and then the state wants to kick your door in.
Is that correct?
Like I said, you are a rare bird.

----------


## dannno

> I personally have never met a user who did it for medical reasons.
> You are a rare bird. You live in California?


Wow.. nearly EVERYBODY I have EVER smoked with did it for medical reasons whether they knew it or not. 

Most diseases are caused by stress. If you find a way to relieve stress, then you can cut out a lot of serious conditions before they affect you. 

I have a doctor's recommendation now, and my two best friends in college who I smoked with had stomach conditions and it helped them to eat. They were smoking for fun, and to relieve stress, but that doesn't mean they weren't treating a medical condition at the same time.

My current roommate has a doctor's recommendation. 

Every girl who I know who smokes likes to smoke more when they are having their menstrual cycle, which also makes it for medical reasons. 

There was once a Canadian website that had a document which listed hundreds of ailments that cannabis helps alleviate. 

To say that someone using cannabis for medical conditions is a "rare bird" is completely ludicrous. It's like saying people don't eat food for nutrition, they eat because they are hungry. Sometimes you just have to ask yourself, why do people get hungry?

----------


## Dieseler

Look Newyear, 
I'm not itching for a fight man and the advice I offered in my words about growing the crap is hardly good at all. 
My words are just my own opinion on recreational pot use. 
I feel like people are selfishly continuing a bad trend without any regard for what happens behind the scenes to create the trend.
I've been guilty of this myself.
I give up my age. 
I'm 40 years old and a Father of two.
I do care. 
During my life I have seen a lot of people used and abused by the system. Most of them over frivolous crap. 
The bad thing is that most of that use and abuse is brought about by making poor decisions in their early life. 
Its a phase that everyone goes through. Some are lucky and make it through unscathed while others pay the price through incarceration and even worse many die often times violently. 
Those prices are paid by the end users who should know but often times do not understand the full ramifications of the outcomes tied to the decisions they make. The most despicable part of the whole thing aside from that is most never even think about the people who get stepped on and destroyed before they can get to be the end user.
Thats where the true crime lies. 
Its never been a guiltless crime without a victim and its worse now than ever.
My only intention in posting in this thread is to shed a light on the ugly side of this debate and ugly is putting it mildly. 
Recreational users should never forget the people that die for their weed.
As long as people continue to make marijuana a lucrative black market business the law will not change. I wish people could see that. You have got to attack the problem from a different direction to get the results you desire. Unfortunately that will mean reducing the demand for it.
Medical marijuana users are in a different situation than recreational users.
I must admit that.
Peace and sorry I rained on the parade here.

----------


## amonasro

> Yeah, I did that one time to.
> Next thing I know I'm hearing a train approaching and think wow, the Outlaws are gonna play Train, Train by Blackfoot.
> I kinda figured out that wasn't the case when I blacked out while still standing and had to be lead out of the crowd.
> Not very smart on my part. 
> I was only 13 at the time though.
> I guess hard lessons do come hard.
> I'm fortunate to have a had a date who was smarter than me.
> Oh, one more thing.
> You, who purchase this crap are the ones who perpetuate this bull$#@! War on Drugs.
> ...


You fail to take into account the medical community (which you obviously know little about) and the large amount of users who are "underground" and grow it for various _nonviolent_ reasons.

What about the guy who grows it and sells to a small group of people at a fair price?  What about people who grow it as caretakers for medical patients?  What about nonviolent dealers who get marijuana directly from growers and sell to a small customer base?  What about the states where it's legal to grow for medicinal purposes?

The only way you're supporting crime and the war on drugs is if you buy from large-scale growers/importers who are affiliated with gangs.   

Buy from someone where you know the source.

Your argument fails to take into account many things and seems very emotionally driven.  There is much new information about cannabis that has come out in the last few years.  I suggest hopping on a search engine and reading some of it.

----------


## Dieseler

> Wow.. nearly EVERYBODY I have EVER smoked with did it for medical reasons whether they knew it or not.
> 
> Most diseases are caused by stress. If you find a way to relieve stress, then you can cut out a lot of serious conditions before they affect you.
> 
> I have a doctor's recommendation now, and my two best friends in college who I smoked with had stomach conditions and it helped them to eat. They were smoking for fun, and to relieve stress, but that doesn't mean they weren't treating a medical condition at the same time.
> 
> My current roommate has a doctor's recommendation.
> 
> Every girl who I know who smokes likes to smoke more when they are having their menstrual cycle, which also makes it for medical reasons.
> ...


Thats quite a bandwagon Danno. If I stub my toe during the game this weekend, may I join? No, but really, it looks like your trying to push the cart with the horse to me.




> You fail to take into account the medical community (which you obviously know little about) and the large amount of users who are "underground" and grow it for various _nonviolent_ reasons.


There is no medical community where I live. Theres only Dope dealers, users, cops and judges that love to give mandatory minimum sentences. I have never seen or heard of anyone growing or using  pot to achieve a violent end result.
Thats a great point. To bad all the violence associated with it usually happens before it hits the pipe huh?





> What about the guy who grows it and sells to a small group of people at a fair price?


I'm sure hes a great guy but The State won't much care when they give him the mandatory minimum sentence. Do you not feel responsible somehow when this great guy gets $#@!ing shot or receives a ten year sentence?
My suggestion was better. Grow it for your self if you have to have it. Take the responsibility on yourself for your actions. Thats all I'm saying. That great guys not growing that $#@! for free, he is making a profit. That contributes to the problem and no, he's not really a great guy. He's a scumbag to. If he is getting away with this he's paying somebody off. Break the chain. This isn't right.




> What about people who grow it as caretakers for medical patients?  What about nonviolent dealers who get marijuana directly from growers and sell to a small customer base?


Same as above I guess as far as the State and mandatory minimum sentences go. I still haven't run across a drug dealer in my nick of the woods that didn't realize violence may be his only recourse when his freedom is at stake. Keep that in mind if he gets busted making a delivery to your house or vice a versa. I always wanted to visit California as a youngin. I guess I missed a lot by not doing so. My Uncle told me Reagan $#@!ed it all up. Is that true?




> What about the states where it's legal to grow for medicinal purposes?


You can't push a cart with a horse. You're gonna have to make the use of marijuana legal before you can safely do anything else with it.




> The only way you're supporting crime and the war on drugs is if you buy from large-scale growers/importers who are affiliated with gangs.


I would have to believe that 99% of it is obtained just the way you suggest it not be.
What about all the users out there who can't get a prescription or who do not live in California? I hear Ahhnold screaming for a bailout now. Maybe he will be the man that legalizes pot and puts Cali back on the road to recovery. Who knows.



> Buy from someone where you know the source.


To hear you say that you would think most people across the nation fall into the category of having that option. Trust me, that is not the norm.




> Your argument fails to take into account many things and seems very emotionally driven.


You're right. Seeing people beheaded over bricks of dope really gets my goat.




> There is much new information about cannabis that has come out in the last few years.  I suggest hopping on a search engine and reading some of it.


Thats Great! Lets find a way to legalize it!

----------


## Dieseler

Look guys, I know I'm being an $#@! about this but I don't think were really that far apart from each other as far as what we want.
Hell, we're right there together.
I want it legal so people stop $#@!ing each other up and killing kids, You want it legal so you can smoke the $#@!. 
How can we achieve this?
I can only think of one way and it probably won't suit you. 
Dry up the demand.
This will cause the pukes to quit making money off of you. 
When the profit in it disappears they will be more apt to hear the plight of the medical marijuana users as well. Once it gets legal for use for them, its all down hill from there. Next thing you know, TPTB will see they're losing their cash cow and they will tax it like they do Cigarettes and booze, then you can buy it anywhere you like.
Most likely you will be able to grow a good deal of your own at that point as well.
What ya say?

----------


## acptulsa

You can certainly expect a lot of drug testing in the workplace, I expect.  Many business managers will consider that a relatively painless way to decide who to lay off.  If you think that's just class warfare (the manager can afford to bribe a doctor to write him a scrip, after all) then that's just your bad attitude.

And you must admit, Dieseler, that the mere fact that hard liquor is (in most states) available only through special shops that do not admit minors has made it harder for kids to get than any illegal substance.  So much for prohibition being effective.

----------


## Dieseler

> You can certainly expect a lot of drug testing in the workplace, I expect.  Many business managers will consider that a relatively painless way to decide who to lay off.  If you think that's just class warfare (the manager can afford to bribe a doctor to write him a scrip, after all) then that's just your bad attitude.
> 
> And you must admit, Dieseler, that the mere fact that hard liquor is (in most states) available only through special shops that do not admit minors has made it harder for kids to get than any illegal substance.  So much for prohibition being effective.


Yup.

----------


## dannno

> Look guys...I can only think of one way and it probably won't suit you...Dry up the demand...
> 
> 
> What ya say?


A lot of 'mainstream' users unfortunately don't understand the meaning of liberty. It's popular and it's the cool thing to do in many circles. Though I will go out on a limb and say that through it's use, many have discovered said meaning of liberty. My point is this campaign is not going to be very effective. 

Also, as somebody else has said, it depends on the source. If you are getting herb from mexico, then you may be indirectly supporting violence (though the true blame is on those who made it illegal and continue to make it illegal). The majority of herb, however, is grown in much smaller scale operations indoors or outdoors. I would venture to guess there is very little violence caused by the underground cannabis market as compared to other drugs.

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

Most people don't want to go through shady dealers as most cannabis users are not shady people.  The dealers are the ones that are sometimes involved in harder drugs because that's how they make their money.  Weed doesnt cost anything compared to coke and $#@! like that.  The problem with growing however has stiffer penalties than even dealing.  This is why people do not grow their own. By getting caught, you risk losing your home, property and everything else.  Its just easier and almost safer in most peoples eyes to buy.  By putting these dealers out of business you would be putting the government out of business as well, and the government doesn't want that. The laws will never change in that respect.  The only way they will change is if the government makes more money than what they are doing now.

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> If you are getting herb from mexico, then you may be indirectly supporting violence (though the true blame is on those who made it illegal and continue to make it illegal). The majority of herb, however, is grown in much smaller scale operations indoors or outdoors. I would venture to guess there is very little violence caused by the underground cannabis market as compared to other drugs.


If you are getting herb from mexico you are getting cheap $#@! dirt weed.  Everyone who smokes knows what it looks like. And anyone who enjoys herb for taste and certain type highs knows that dirt weed will do nothing but give you a headache and paranoia. 

This is why you find a friend of a friend of a friend who is a grower to make things happen.  This way there is no violence only an exchange of money to help them with their expenses quality of product and risk involved.

----------


## silverlinkx2

Are you people 14? Seriously? My god listen to yourselves talk. You'd think you were reading consumer reports to buy a $#@!ing used car. "Oh mexico hash sucks buy purple haze"

SERIOUSLY?

I'm 100% convinced that pot would be nowhere near as popular as it is if it were legal. A bunch of idealistic morons want something they can't have (just like 98% of America) and so they flock to pot to stick it to "the man" when 9 times out of 10 they're really just putting money in the pockets of some mexican cartel who will use that money to buy arms to go abduct some policeman and put a hole in his head.

Like I used to date a girl who boycotted wal-mart, called them evil, said giving them money was destroying the economy, but had no problem going out and dropping 20 bucks on a bag from some shady mother $#@!er with no idea of who or what she was funding or from where "OH BUT ITS ONLY 20 DOLLARS". 20 bucks is a case of shotgun shells you dumb bitch. Nothing makes me want to abandon the movement quicker than when I think about that.

I'm so glad I'm part of such a open-minded, freedom loving/oriented group

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> Are you people 14? Seriously? My god listen to yourselves talk. You'd think you were reading consumer reports to buy a $#@!ing used car. "Oh mexico hash sucks buy purple haze"
> 
> SERIOUSLY?
> 
> I'm 100% convinced that pot would be nowhere near as popular as it is if it were legal. A bunch of idealistic morons want something they can't have (just like 98% of America) and so they flock to pot to stick it to "the man" when 9 times out of 10 they're really just putting money in the pockets of some mexican cartel who will use that money to buy arms to go abduct some policeman and put a hole in his head.
> 
> Like I used to date a girl who boycotted wal-mart, called them evil, said giving them money was destroying the economy, but had no problem going out and dropping 20 bucks on a bag from some shady mother $#@!er with no idea of who or what she was funding or from where "OH BUT ITS ONLY 20 DOLLARS". 20 bucks is a case of shotgun shells you dumb bitch. Nothing makes me want to abandon the movement quicker than when I think about that.
> 
> I'm so glad I'm part of such a open-minded, freedom loving/oriented group


You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> Are you people 14? Seriously? My god listen to yourselves talk. You'd think you were reading consumer reports to buy a $#@!ing used car. "Oh mexico hash sucks buy purple haze"
> 
> SERIOUSLY?
> 
> I'm 100% convinced that pot would be nowhere near as popular as it is if it were legal. A bunch of idealistic morons want something they can't have (just like 98% of America) and so they flock to pot to stick it to "the man" when 9 times out of 10 they're really just putting money in the pockets of some mexican cartel who will use that money to buy arms to go abduct some policeman and put a hole in his head.
> 
> Like I used to date a girl who boycotted wal-mart, called them evil, said giving them money was destroying the economy, but had no problem going out and dropping 20 bucks on a bag from some shady mother $#@!er with no idea of who or what she was funding or from where "OH BUT ITS ONLY 20 DOLLARS". 20 bucks is a case of shotgun shells you dumb bitch. Nothing makes me want to abandon the movement quicker than when I think about that.
> 
> I'm so glad I'm part of such a open-minded, freedom loving/oriented group


What are you talking about?




> when 9 times out of 10 they're really just putting money in the pockets of some mexican cartel who will use that money to buy arms to go abduct some policeman and put a hole in his head.





> Most people don't want to go through shady dealers as most cannabis users are not shady people.


She was saying people WOULD NOT buy pot that supports Mexican cartels IF THEY HAD A BETTER OPTION.

Free Market 101: Competition produces a better, safer product

----------


## silverlinkx2

> You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about.


oh i'm sorry i didn't smoke pot and learn all about drugs and being a criminal and subsidized organized crime while i was in college, i actually tried to learn a trade.

how silly of me.




> She was saying people WOULD NOT buy pot that supports Mexican cartels IF THEY HAD A BETTER OPTION.
> 
> Free Market 101: Competition produces a better, safer product


Here's an idea. Don't buy it. And if people are that hopelessly chained to smoking the $#@! that they'd have no problems giving their money away to murderers and dealers just to enjoy a high, then i'm convinced it should stay illegal and anyone doing the $#@! should rot in jail.

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> oh i'm sorry i didn't smoke pot and learn all about drugs and being a criminal and subsidized organized crime while i was in college, i actually tried to learn a trade.
> 
> how silly of me.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an idea. Don't buy it. And if people are that hopelessly chained to smoking the $#@! that they'd have no problems giving their money away to murderers and dealers just to enjoy a high, then i'm convinced it should stay illegal and anyone doing the $#@! should rot in jail.


Wow how fascist of you!  The more you talk, the more I think you obviously have a seriously huge bug up your butt.  I didn't learn about pot and subsidized organized crime while I was in college either.  You know what I think?  That old girlfriend of yours dumped your straight laced boring ass for the shady dealer and you are bitter as hell.  

I have an idea for you.  Why don't you just stay out of the convo if you can't help add something positive to it.  You obviously have a very big misconception about what you are talking about.  Bye bye now little sheep.

----------


## silverlinkx2

Another typical trashy American woman 

Besides your obvious inferiority due to your gender and country of origin, you are completely wrong about my personal life. And secondly, the only ones who are fascist are people like YOU who don't give a $#@! about the suffering you cause when you go out and buy your drugs.

You're a whore, and you don't realize it. You can't respect freedom and home when you don't respect freedom abroad. I would say the exact same thing to somebody buying shoes from nike or oil from Saudi Arabia. You are putting money directly into the hands of murderous dictators, cartels, gangsters, mobsters and you have blood on your hands and you think it's a big $#@!ing jokes.

Don't bitch to me about freedom when you clearly don;t respect it, sheep. You disgust me, and when you open your mouth you remind me ever so clearly that this country is getting exactly what it is coming to it.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Look guys, I know I'm being an $#@! about this but I don't think were really that far apart from each other as far as what we want.
> Hell, we're right there together.
> I want it legal so people stop $#@!ing each other up and killing kids, You want it legal so you can smoke the $#@!. 
> How can we achieve this?
> I can only think of one way and it probably won't suit you. 
> Dry up the demand.
> This will cause the pukes to quit making money off of you. 
> When the profit in it disappears they will be more apt to hear the plight of the medical marijuana users as well. Once it gets legal for use for them, its all down hill from there. Next thing you know, TPTB will see they're losing their cash cow and they will tax it like they do Cigarettes and booze, then you can buy it anywhere you like.
> Most likely you will be able to grow a good deal of your own at that point as well.
> What ya say?


This is the same mentality of banning guns my friend. We are NOT ANYWHERE NEAR EACH OTHER AT ALL on any stance as far as I can tell.

Lets see

We can ban ANYTHING that could POSSIBLY kill people JUST INCASE it MIGHT happen. Ban cars, tobacco, alcohol what else should we ban? They kill more people than weed does. Actually ANY ONE of those kill more people than weed and the only reason I am even putting "death + weed" is the fact that SURE drug dealers kill people over drugs and the pricks who deal dirty $#@! as well. That has zero to do with law abiding citizens who want to DECIDE what THEY put in their bodies.

You can hate on weed all you want BUT what if they tried to ban fatty foods or cigarettes? Those both kill kids as well.

I think you need to open up your close minded self and realize what you are actually mad at and where that blame needs to be placed.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> Another typical trashy American woman 
> 
> Besides your obvious inferiority due to your gender and country of origin, you are completely wrong about my personal life. And secondly, the only ones who are fascist are people like YOU who don't give a $#@! about the suffering you cause when you go out and buy your drugs.
> 
> You're a whore, and you don't realize it. You can't respect freedom and home when you don't respect freedom abroad. I would say the exact same thing to somebody buying shoes from nike or oil from Saudi Arabia. You are putting money directly into the hands of murderous dictators, cartels, gangsters, mobsters and you have blood on your hands and you think it's a big $#@!ing jokes.
> 
> Don't bitch to me about freedom when you clearly don;t respect it, sheep. You disgust me, and when you open your mouth you remind me ever so clearly that this country is getting exactly what it is coming to it.


Translation:

You stinky Americans and your freedom that is still greater than ours... I spit on your country you yankee cowboy scum. JIHAD JIHAD

This guy is an obvious troll.

He claims women are inferior, and that POT SMOKERS cause more violence than people with his mindset.

Seriously, I'd say ignore him, but there is some really funny stuff coming out of his mouth.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Another typical trashy American woman 
> 
> Besides your obvious inferiority due to your gender and country of origin, you are completely wrong about my personal life. And secondly, the only ones who are fascist are people like YOU who don't give a $#@! about the suffering you cause when you go out and buy your drugs.
> 
> You're a whore, and you don't realize it. You can't respect freedom and home when you don't respect freedom abroad. I would say the exact same thing to somebody buying shoes from nike or oil from Saudi Arabia. You are putting money directly into the hands of murderous dictators, cartels, gangsters, mobsters and you have blood on your hands and you think it's a big $#@!ing jokes.
> 
> Don't bitch to me about freedom when you clearly don;t respect it, sheep. You disgust me, and when you open your mouth you remind me ever so clearly that this country is getting exactly what it is coming to it.


I love it when people have nothing intelligent to say they resort to simply trying to trash other people. She is whore because of what again?

People are whores for buying nike shoes and oil from saudi arabia? LOL you are a joke and nothing more and odds are you and your lil buddy in this thread need to start a "wake the $#@! up" thread and maybe you two can enjoy telling each other what else needs to be banned JUST IN CASE someone gets hurt.

You guys couldn't be closer to each other if you were sitting on his lap, you odds are, are using the same damn comp for all I know and more power to you.

There is no law against being misinformed and ignorant so I won't hold it against you or your gal pal.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Translation:
> 
> You stinky Americans and your freedom that is still greater than ours... I spit on your country you yankee cowboy scum. JIHAD JIHAD
> 
> This guy is an obvious troll.
> 
> He claims women are inferior, and that POT SMOKERS cause more violence than people with his mindset.
> 
> Seriously, I'd say ignore him, but there is some really funny stuff coming out of his mouth.


Why ignore these two anyways, they MIGHT wake up realizing how $#@!ing stupid their entire arguments have been so far.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> I'm so glad I'm part of such a open-minded, freedom loving/oriented group


the sad thing is you mock it as though it is a bad thing.

go close your mind up my friend, it apparently works for you. When you are ready for a big boy conversation let me know

----------


## silverlinkx2

The more I try to reason with stoners the more I find that I can't reason with stoners. Maybe it's because they're stoned.

But really, if you want the reason why pot's not legalized all you need to do is look in the mirror. If I was a congressman and I got to vote on decriminalization and they sent you clowns to try and come and convince me, I'd laugh in your face while I was voting no.

Yeah pot should probably be legalized, but it never will, thanks to yourselves, who have made it abundantly clear that it is the most important thing in your lives and is more important than the safety and the lives of people suffering from its criminalization.

I'm going back to the economics board. You people don't make me nauseous there.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

So let me guess

ip addresses pretty much the same on these two?

Dieseler
silverlinkx2

or they go to the same high school together who knows if it is even two people, they both have the same dumb ass responses that pretty much state the same close minded views.

maybe they have a new club opening up? they might do better in the obama corner he would more than happy ban ANYTHING especially if there MIGHT be a chance of someone getting hurt by SOMETHING.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> The more I try to reason with stoners the more I find that I can't reason with stoners. Maybe it's because they're stoned.
> 
> But really, if you want the reason why pot's not legalized all you need to do is look in the mirror. If I was a congressman and I got to vote on decriminalization and they sent you clowns to try and come and convince me, I'd laugh in your face while I was voting no.
> 
> Yeah pot should probably be legalized, but it never will, thanks to yourselves, who have made it abundantly clear that it is the most important thing in your lives and is more important than the safety and the lives of people suffering from its criminalization.
> 
> I'm going back to the economics board. You people don't make me nauseous there.


please, go. I can't wait to see what type of "economic" brilliance comes out of you there LOL

----------


## silverlinkx2

> So let me guess
> 
> ip addresses pretty much the same on these two?
> 
> Dieseler
> silverlinkx2
> 
> or they go to the same high school together who knows if it is even two people, they both have the same dumb ass responses that pretty much state the same close minded views.
> 
> maybe they have a new club opening up? they might do better in the obama corner he would more than happy ban ANYTHING especially if there MIGHT be a chance of someone getting hurt by SOMETHING.


Are you that much of an idiot to think that if more than one person disagrees with on something then it's automatically one person working multiple accounts? Seriously?

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Are you that much of an idiot to think that if more than one person disagrees with on something then it's automatically one person working multiple accounts? Seriously?


No I am just shocked that two people can be that close minded and give the same "people get killed over pot because of people like YOU" responses.

----------


## silverlinkx2

> No I am just shocked that two people can be that close minded and give the same "people get killed over pot because of people like YOU" responses.


Oh, two people aren't high and are able to think logically. That is a shocker.

Unless you grow your own bud, then in which case whatever. Otherwise, are you 100% absolutely sure you know where your $#@! is coming from?

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> If I was a congressman and I got to vote on decriminalization and they sent you clowns to try and come and convince me, I'd laugh in your face while I was voting no.


ROFL, Your right, and I bet they would listen to somebody with your Master-Debating skills!

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Oh, two people aren't high and are able to think logically. That is a shocker.
> 
> Unless you grow your own bud, then in which case whatever. Otherwise, are you 100% absolutely sure you know where your $#@! is coming from?


Yes I am amazingly stoned right now. I actually am so addicted I can't sleep any more. I just sit and smoke pot saying "dude lol" all day long.

So let me guess, your day job is......

stereotyping people?

am I close

I thought you had to go and pretend you knew something about politics, maybe tell people that gays kill people so we should ban them as well?

you really need to get a grasp on reality there bud, nothing wrong with being naive though you still have plenty of growing to do i'm sure and good luck with that.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08



----------


## silverlinkx2

> Yes I am amazingly stoned right now. I actually am so addicted I can't sleep any more. I just sit and smoke pot saying "dude lol" all day long.
> 
> So let me guess, your day job is......
> 
> stereotyping people?
> 
> am I close
> 
> I thought you had to go and pretend you knew something about politics, maybe tell people that gays kill people so we should ban them as well?
> ...


Comparing being gay to doing drugs, yeah that's appropriate.

I have a perfect grasp of reality. As a matter of fact, your little trifecta of bud buddies here has demonstrated my point perfectly. It's that drugs are indeed completely altering the chemical balance in your brain to the point where you think they are so important that you feel no remorse were your habit to be directly responsible for the death of someone.

It's quite common in drug users.

However, I don't think this issue is important enough to let it be a dividing factor in our stance against the common enemy, which is the Federal Reserve, central banking, bankers, multinational conglomerates with their hands in our politicians pockets, and things of that nature.

I will say this though, you guys are turning off a lot of moderates/Independents with this stuff. I try not to equate you to the loonies, the truthers, the white supremacists and the completely insane who thought they had a Representative in RP and decided to hitch themselves onto him thus destroying a lot of his chances at a shot at the Presidency, but I'd like to think that if you really cared about your candidate and the movement in general, you'd reconsider your stances a bit.

----------


## Dieseler

Best I can tell I haven't personally insulted anyone in this thread beyond myself. 
I admitted I am an $#@!.
Don't add me in to the he said, she said personal insult bull$#@!.
I just stated my opinion on my own, like I always do.
After I did that, I offered the (pun intended) _Peace pipe_. I had already stated I am not Holier than Thou.
Its not my intent to appear so.
I would like to continue an insult free discussion, if possible, on ways in which users and non users could find common ground to work together in finding a way to legalize marijuana.
Its the only way to stop the killing.

As far as Silver and myself possibly being the same person, that is impossible. 
I am me.
I can't speak for him but he appears to be himself or herself alone as well. I dunno.
We may have gone to school together at the same time, maybe even the same place, but I highly doubt it. 
Sounds to me like he has an interest in economics and that to me makes me think he at least finished high School and has a little College education behind him.
I was to busy getting stoned and $#@!ing up during the 9th grade to finish high school.
If we went to high school at the same time, I _highly_ (pun intended) doubt that we hung around together.
I would think you know how to check an ip address on your own. Its pretty common knowledge how to do so.
If you don't know how, heres a good place to start.
http://whatismyip.com/
I don't use a proxy when I post. 
Feel free to find out whatever you can, I could absolutely not care less.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> It's that drugs are indeed completely altering the chemical balance in your brain to the point where you think they are so important that you feel no remorse were your habit to be directly responsible for the death of someone.


Don't have pot.... Must kill.... Must... get..... pot................


Damn this guy's got me all figured out.

----------


## acptulsa

> I have a perfect grasp of reality. As a matter of fact, your little trifecta of bud buddies here has demonstrated my point perfectly. It's that drugs are indeed completely altering the chemical balance in your brain to the point where you think they are so important that you feel no remorse were your habit to be directly responsible for the death of someone.
> 
> It's quite common in drug users.


Wait a minute, I thought this thread was about marijuana.  Are you trying to argue the case made in _Reefer Madness_?  Seriously?

LOL!

----------


## silverlinkx2

> Wait a minute, I thought this thread was about marijuana.  Are you trying to argue the case made in _Reefer Madness_?  Seriously?
> 
> LOL!


I've never seen or read that movie/publication. I don't know what it is.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> I've never seen or read that movie/publication. I don't know what it is.


LOL, please educate us some more on your vast marijuana regulation/ deregulation lore then.....

GO OUTSIDE MUCH?

----------


## silverlinkx2

> LOL, please educate us some more on your vast marijuana regulation/ deregulation lore then.....
> 
> GO OUTSIDE MUCH?


Scientific studies? Social commentary? Personal observation?

Ok I am officially tired of talking about this now. Thread over, you win.

----------


## acptulsa

> I've never seen or read that movie/publication. I don't know what it is.


Its pure propaganda.  It has no basis in fact.  It also drove U.S. opinion about the stuff for years.

I thought we had grown too smart than to buy that brand of b.s.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Scientific studies? Social commentary? Personal observation?
> 
> Ok I am officially tired of talking about this now. Thread over, you win.


I won, were you trying to debate something in here?.... I didn't even notice but that was mainly due to zero rational thought coming from your end. I thought I was simply educating you this entire time.

When you are ready for a real debate though I would be glad to take you and your buddy on anytime. I don't even have to be "totally super stoned" to do it....

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

You know what would make listening to this guy even funnier?....


















Listening to this guy..... On weed!

----------


## Dieseler

This getting really chaotic and very unproductive.
Can we just recap from where we were before the flame war started?

It seems like most of our opinions are formed by experiences based on our Geographic locations. That explains a lot as far as our experiences go involving differing State laws and how the Feds recognize those laws.
Geographic location will also effect how we view the work involved in legalizing marijuana.

I would like to return this thread to civility and I promise from here on out if we can do that, I will hold my sarcasm.
I will disregard any flame against myself preceding this post.
Cease fire.
**************************************************  ***********
I will start by stating my general geographic location and a little bit of what being a user, dealer, grower and even a cop might be like in my opinion.

I live in Alabama.
We have the most Draconian drug laws in the Union. I have never lived outside of Alabama for more than a brief period of six months in Texas.
There is no prescription for marijuana here.
One seed is a misdemeanor today.
The next day a seed becomes a felony.
This causes users and dealers to fear for their freedom and rightly so. It also makes for some very dangerous situations.
I can't speak for every county in Alabama, but the one I live in flies choppers exclusively to search for marijuana. They are very good at it.
I must assume that any pot grown successfully in Alabama is grown inside. 
That in itself means that most of the pot in Alabama is imported.
The cops in Alabama must be assumed to regard every traffic stop as potentially dangerous because of what the users, dealers, growers and importers face if they were to face incarceration. This also creates a very likely scenario that anyone who faces such incarceration will sing like a canary.

Editing to add more thoughts.

This creates some interesting scenarios. Dealers who become successful around here take their business very seriously obviously. They have a lot at stake and they aren't opposed to using violence or threats to protect their business. Cops are serious as well.
This creates a very unhealthy atmosphere for grade school kids on up. If they decide to experiment in the illegal drug world they must associate themselves sooner or later with some very unsavory characters and I don't just mean the police. The very same guys selling the pot often times are selling the Meth as well. Thats a whole different discussion of course but it does pertain to my experience and why I view most dealers as scum.
All of this is excluding the bloodshed that is maintained on a daily basis by the importers in their home countries and all along the way.
Please if you will now tell us how things work in your area.

Editing again to add more...

I definitely have a stake in wishing marijuana to be legalized I'm sure you can see that.
Theres is nothing I would wish for more this Christmas.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> This getting really chaotic and very unproductive.
> Can we just recap from where we were before the flame war started?
> 
> It seems like most of our opinions are formed by experiences based on our Geographic locations. That explains a lot as far as our experiences go involving differing State laws and how the Feds recognize those laws.
> Geographic location will also effect how we view the work involved in legalizing marijuana.
> 
> I would like to return this thread to civility and I promise from here on out if we can do that, I will hold my sarcasm.
> I will disregard any flame against myself preceding this post.
> Cease fire.
> ...


I live in the wealthiest Parish in LA, and marijuana use is high here. (lol no pun intended)

Unless a person gets busted with a rediculous amount, 10 or more pounds, the cops are likely to try the person for a misdemeanor of 1oz.

Here, drug busts, with the exception of the obvious Meth/Crack busts, are simply about making money for the Courthouse.

Once your busted with pot, you are required to take mandatory drug screening for a pre-determined amount of time.

If you test positive, your simply charged with another fine, no legal charges, and you start the screening process over.

This makes drug laws VERY profitable for the govt.

The way I see it, it is a tax on the people that is more readily accepted by the masses than something like the IRS.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> This getting really chaotic and very unproductive.
> Can we just recap from where we were before the flame war started?
> 
> It seems like most of our opinions are formed by experiences based on our Geographic locations. That explains a lot as far as our experiences go involving differing State laws and how the Feds recognize those laws.
> Geographic location will also effect how we view the work involved in legalizing marijuana.
> 
> I would like to return this thread to civility and I promise from here on out if we can do that, I will hold my sarcasm.
> I will disregard any flame against myself preceding this post.
> Cease fire.
> ...


wow what a surprise, as one goes away the other comes back.....

"users".... 

You can't even classify a pothead to a crackhead or other "lab created" user as you put it. That is apples to oranges. Herb doesn't have the addictive qualities in the least and here is another one.
Alabama has terrible marijuana laws and your brief living outside and right into another terrible and over regulated state of texas.

Have you noticed that Texas has a HUGE marijuana market and even cheaper prices than over here in California (mainly due to mexican cartels im sure but I saw pricing over there and it makes me think they have a TON there even with the terrible and strict laws.) where we have pot shop all over the damn state. Why do you think there is MORE of a market in a place that highly regulates it? any thoughts.....

Another thing. Here is a simple way to rationalize what I am trying to tell you.

Think of gun regulations which are as well state based for the majority. Do you ban guns to stop the killing? Well no because guess what, the only people that ban would hurt are the LAW ABIDING citizens who own guns. The criminals do not follow laws and is why REGULATION will not reduce a damn thing.

What WILL reduce it is to 100% legalize it, you want to know why?

Well here it is plain as it can be.

When there was a ban on alcohol what happened? there was a HUGE black market and a ton of money to be made. Once that ban was removed what happened? prices went down, crime went down and so on. It removed the illegal operations by letting free enterprise take control and let the market decide pricing and so on AND put an age restriction on it. Great things BUT alcohol still kills more people then the "killings over weed".....

You are looking at this entire issue backwards my friend.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> I live in the wealthiest Parish in LA, and marijuana use is high here. (lol no pun intended)
> 
> Unless a person gets busted with a rediculous amount, 10 or more pounds, the cops are likely to try the person for a misdemeanor of 1oz.
> 
> Here, drug busts, with the exception of the obvious Meth/Crack busts, are simply about making money for the Courthouse.
> 
> Once your busted with pot, you are required to take mandatory drug screening for a pre-determined amount of time.
> 
> If you test positive, your simply charged with another fine, no legal charges, and you start the screening process over.
> ...


Yup, victimless crimes generate a ton of tax revenue.

----------


## Dieseler

I added quite a lot to my post Newyear.
Please reread it if you have the time.
What is the politically correct term for a marijuana user?
I am trying to be civil.
I will edit again if need be and call you whatever you like.
I absolutely agree the state and the laws are creating the problem.
How do we fix this?

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> How do we fix this?


Electing Liberty-minded representatives.....

Educating others, and trying to understand the entirety of the problem ourselves.

Our fight for constitutionally limited federal govt. goes hand in hand with the fight to end the federal war on drugs.

----------


## Dieseler

> Electing Liberty-minded representatives.....
> 
> Educating others, and trying to understand the entirety of the problem ourselves.
> 
> Our fight for constitutionally limited federal govt. goes hand in hand with the fight to end the federal war on drugs.


Agreed.
Hand in hand no doubt.

Anyone else care to share their experiences from a geographical maybe even cultural experience? I'm not asking for physical addresses, Ips or anything like that lol. State and info on the law and how it has effected you personally is more than enough.
I'm happy to answer any question I can. Just ask, I will try.
I think it would help us to understand where we are all coming from in our opinions and why we feel the way we do.

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> Another typical trashy American woman 
> 
> Besides your obvious inferiority due to your gender and country of origin, you are completely wrong about my personal life. And secondly, the only ones who are fascist are people like YOU who don't give a $#@! about the suffering you cause when you go out and buy your drugs.
> 
> You're a whore, and you don't realize it. You can't respect freedom and home when you don't respect freedom abroad. I would say the exact same thing to somebody buying shoes from nike or oil from Saudi Arabia. You are putting money directly into the hands of murderous dictators, cartels, gangsters, mobsters and you have blood on your hands and you think it's a big $#@!ing jokes.
> 
> Don't bitch to me about freedom when you clearly don;t respect it, sheep. You disgust me, and when you open your mouth you remind me ever so clearly that this country is getting exactly what it is coming to it.


LOL. You are a hilarious little fascist Skinhead/KKK Sheep arent you. Your argument is about the same as buying tomatoes.  Do you know where your tomatoes come from??  Do you buy from the grocery store or do you buy local?  If you buy from the grocery store then they must be from illegals picking your fruit! If you buy local you may be buying from illegals too! You are supporting illegals if you buy tomatoes!  

BTW, if you spent cash today, guess what you are putting money into the hands of the federal reserve which is also a cartel so whats your point? 

I havent bitched at you about freedom at all. $#@!ing retarded sheep.

----------


## silverlinkx2

I'm trying to think of more ways that you could make your argumen tusing more logical fallacies, but I'm coming up short.

Yeah, buying tomatoes is the same thing as buying pot.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/

and you have the nerve to call me a sheep. LOL. trying laying off the pipe before you call someone else brainwashed, since you're actually physically brainwashing yourself

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> I'm trying to think of more ways that you could make your argumen tusing more logical fallacies, but I'm coming up short.
> 
> Yeah, buying tomatoes is the same thing as buying pot.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/
> 
> and you have the nerve to call me a sheep. LOL. trying laying off the pipe before you call someone else brainwashed, since you're actually physically brainwashing yourself


Who said I was smoking weed, and did I ever call you brainwashed?  I called you a sheep which is more like calling you retarded or ignorant.  You ASSume way too much and have no grasp on the subject at hand.  I have toked in the past, and I know exactly what the deal is.  

Let me ask you a question: 

What would our government do without the Cannabis lovers out there?  They would go BROKE!  So don't start with your bull$#@! sob story of how we are supporting terrorism in Mexico.  When the government starts stepping in on keeping the illegals out of the country instead of letting them in to bring the dirt weed in when there is prohibition then maybe you will have a leg to stand on.  

With all of that being said, I'm gonna have to say "so what" about the "Mexican" weed in the national forrests! Many Americans have done this as well its not anything NEW!  While there may be people doing this, there are MANY Americans out there that are growing in their house for themselves.  Good Cannabis is like a Fine Wine or a Fine Cigar....a lot of us don't just buy $#@! off the street in the Latin ghetto like you seem to think.  Its actually pretty racist of you to think such things.   

Most of us are highly intelligent people as well with college educations, and professional jobs.  How hard is that for you to understand?? You act like you are threatened by the entire notion that someone can actually be a "pot head" and actually be smarter and more successful than you or anyone else out there.  They may even be your attorney, or doctor.  The propaganda you read is false.  You choose what you want to believe however.  Its actually pretty funny knowing that it bothers you so much!  To each his own!

----------


## silverlinkx2

> Who said I was smoking weed, and did I ever call you brainwashed?  I called you a sheep which is more like calling you retarded or ignorant.  You ASSume way too much and have no grasp on the subject at hand.  I have toked in the past, and I know exactly what the deal is.  
> 
> Let me ask you a question: 
> 
> What would our government do without the Cannabis lovers out there?  They would go BROKE!  So don't start with your bull$#@! sob story of how we are supporting terrorism in Mexico.  When the government starts stepping in on keeping the illegals out of the country instead of letting them in to bring the dirt weed in when there is prohibition then maybe you will have a leg to stand on.  
> 
> With all of that being said, I'm gonna have to say "so what" about the "Mexican" weed in the national forrests! Many Americans have done this as well its not anything NEW!  While there may be people doing this, there are MANY Americans out there that are growing in their house for themselves.  Good Cannabis is like a Fine Wine or a Fine Cigar....a lot of us don't just buy $#@! off the street in the Latin ghetto like you seem to think.  Its actually pretty racist of you to think such things.   
> 
> Most of us are highly intelligent people as well with college educations, and professional jobs.  How hard is that for you to understand?? You act like you are threatened by the entire notion that someone can actually be a "pot head" and actually be smarter and more successful than you or anyone else out there.  They may even be your attorney, or doctor.  The propaganda you read is false.  You choose what you want to believe however.  Its actually pretty funny knowing that it bothers you so much!  To each his own!


Lol me replying to this post actually gives it legitimacy which is dumb. You didn't write a single sentence that made any sense.

The war on drugs actually COSTS money. Pot isn't taxable, so how are they earning money off of it? 

If you are buying pot that you aren't growing yourself or is being grown locally by someone you know, you are subsidizing organized crime and Mexican cartels. FACT.

How am I a racist? 

I didn't say there weren't intelligent people who smoked pot. I am aware of many. However, you are not one of them.

----------


## dannno

> The war on drugs actually COSTS money. Pot isn't taxable, so how are they earning money off of it?


*bong hit*


http://www.prisonindustrialcomplex.org/

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=852

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90726863

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> Lol me replying to this post actually gives it legitimacy which is dumb. You didn't write a single sentence that made any sense.
> 
> The war on drugs actually COSTS money. Pot isn't taxable, so how are they earning money off of it? 
> 
> If you are buying pot that you aren't growing yourself or is being grown locally by someone you know, you are subsidizing organized crime and Mexican cartels. FACT.
> 
> How am I a racist? 
> 
> I didn't say there weren't intelligent people who smoked pot. I am aware of many. However, you are not one of them.


Your dribble is beginning to bore me.  I just want to know where you get your information from other than CNN. You still have not proved that weed comes from Mexican Cartels.  By assuming this, yeah you could be considered as a racist, and you actually sound like some of these skin head fascists preaching the SAME argument on youtube!  Racism is what made it illegal in the first place!  

If one has to explain how the Drug War is making tons of money, then you really are retarded!!  The government doesn't do anything unless it can make money out of it.  And yes, I could see how you feel pretty insignificant seeing that your exgf dumped you over some shady mexican drug dealer in the past.  hahahahaha

----------


## dannno

silverlinkx2, I would say that the people who created the black market and who support the continuation of the black market are morally responsible for it's ills, not the people who support it. I don't support the black market, I support the legal medicinal cannabis market only because that option is there for me. I know any reasonable and able person would also make that decision, it's just unfortunate that the prohibitionists cannot make it. 

Liberty minded individuals have been arguing against the black market, explaining to those who support it that it is the legality of the substances that cause all of these problems and is the primary reason it needs to end. 

Cannabis is the #1 cash crop in California and Canada. I'd imagine in many other places as well. Cannabis is chump change for the Mexican cartels. They're in the business of smuggling higher margin product, people and weapons. Haven't you seen that HBO show Weeds

----------


## silverlinkx2

> silverlinkx2, I would say that the people who created the black market and who support the continuation of the black market are morally responsible for it's ills, not the people who support it. I don't support the black market, I support the legal medicinal cannabis market only because that option is there for me. I know any reasonable and able person would also make that decision, it's just unfortunate that the prohibitionists cannot make it. 
> 
> Liberty minded individuals have been arguing against the black market, explaining to those who support it that it is the legality of the substances that cause all of these problems and is the primary reason it needs to end. 
> 
> Cannabis is the #1 cash crop in California and Canada. I'd imagine in many other places as well. Cannabis is chump change for the Mexican cartels. They're in the business of smuggling higher margin product, people and weapons. Haven't you seen that HBO show Weeds


I agree, and I've seen one too many cases where someone got violent with someone over drugs and the cops decided to chase the drugs instead of the actual violent person. Disgusting.

But anyway its unfortunate you have people like jennif00f00 who ruin your otherwise good argument by trying to hop on the legalization train with their ridiculous non-arguments. I mean if you want to impress politicians and get your platform across, my guess is don't take people like her along with you, it makes intelligent well-meaning people like yourself look bad. 

But anyway, you'd have my vote

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> I agree, and I've seen one too many cases where someone got violent with someone over drugs and the cops decided to chase the drugs instead of the actual violent person. Disgusting.
> 
> But anyway its unfortunate you have people like jennif00f00 who ruin your otherwise good argument by trying to hop on the legalization train with their ridiculous non-arguments. I mean if you want to impress politicians and get your platform across, my guess is don't take people like her along with you, it makes intelligent well-meaning people like yourself look bad. 
> 
> But anyway, you'd have my vote


LOL youre not only a racist but you're pretty good at passive aggressive antics as well.  Congratulations for being the douche of the day on the RPFs!!!

----------


## Mini-Me

Being a college graduate, I have reason to believe that a lot of marijuana actually comes from the closets of World of Warcraft players.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> LOL youre not only a racist but you're pretty good at passive aggressive antics as well.  Congratulations for being the douche of the day on the RPFs!!!


+1776

and that can go for his homie as well on here...

maybe its a "double douche" day for rpf's?????

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> Being a college graduate, I have reason to believe that a lot of marijuana actually comes from the closets of World of Warcraft players.


LOL, I think people would end up letting their plants die due to being too addicted to WOW actually....

WOW has been proven to be more addictive than heroin itself in some circles..

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> silverlinkx2, I would say that the people who created the black market and who support the continuation of the black market are morally responsible for it's ills, not the people who support it. I don't support the black market, I support the legal medicinal cannabis market only because that option is there for me. I know any reasonable and able person would also make that decision, it's just unfortunate that the prohibitionists cannot make it.


GREAT POST and very true. I know plenty who had to "find" medicine that worked for them. My uncle who died of colon cancer when he was in his 40's had medical marijuana to help with his stomach and keeping food down. If he was not in california what would his "medical" option have been when that was the ONE AND ONLY thing that actually worked for him?

He went to the best doctors in san francisco and various other specialists in the bay area and from all of that, medical marijuana was what worked.

Now imagine if he was in alabama or texas or another state that did not view marijuana as a medical alternative? Imagine if he had to go and locate medicine in an illegal fashion and got busted for it.

Who's fault is it that HE would have odds are ended up in jail trying to locate THE ONE THING that worked for him and kept him "happier" than he ever has been while dealing with colon cancer?

Imagine if it was legal, or at least medically legal for OTHER patients and people who KNOW marijuana can help them. 

People need to take their narrow minded views of A PLANT out of their asses and actually do some real research as to WHY it was banned in the first place.

Why not look into why hemp was banned as well, something that you could not get high off unless you smoked a boat load of the $#@!. Do you really think that is our government trying to keep kids off drugs? Or maybe just maybe it would be a free alternative to MANY various products that would not only compete but DESTROY other crops like ethanol, paper products and so forth.

Wake up sheeple, its a plant and the government has you believing our kids are dying from it. Why not actually LOOK and see how many people have od'd on marijuana or died from it... ZERO ZERO ZERO... What an epidemic.

Another thing, why is it that the TWO who came in here bitching and moaning have now BOTH turned a new leaf? I still think they are either the same person or buddies with the same thought process. Just my theory though but happy the rants of the mad and misinformed are over.

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> I agree, and I've seen one too many cases where someone got violent with someone over drugs and the cops decided to chase the drugs instead of the actual violent person. Disgusting.
> 
> But anyway its unfortunate you have people like jennif00f00 who ruin your otherwise good argument by trying to hop on the legalization train with their ridiculous non-arguments. I mean if you want to impress politicians and get your platform across, my guess is don't take people like her along with you, it makes intelligent well-meaning people like yourself look bad. 
> 
> But anyway, you'd have my vote


What cases have you seen, post them up. Please show marijuana related VIOLENT people as well. I would love to see marijuana insight a fight ANYWHERE. You odds are have never smoked the stuff BUT trust me, fighting is the last thing you really want to do. More often than not it is munchies, thinking, drawing, sleeping and so forth.

The CRIME that you are talking about is from CRIMINALS who IF they don't get their way they kill others. They are not doing it over marijuana but are doing it because of the ILLEGAL business they run.

99.9999999999% of those who carry marijuana do NOT carry guns, resell it or try and kill others for marijuana. 

You want real information here is some to look over.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418

that is a great page to start at.

Also 

Here are NATIONAL polls of regular americans voting FOR the legalization. Why if the majority of people who vote are FOR it does it still remain illegal?

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3392

---

Do you not see that victimless crimes like POSSESSION is why so many people are in prison, wasting tax payer dollars, never actually committed a crime and simply had PLANT MATERIAL on their person. Not committing a crime, not walking around with a gun and weed, not trying to sell it in a dark alley.

----------


## silverlinkx2

> GREAT POST and very true. I know plenty who had to "find" medicine that worked for them. My uncle who died of colon cancer when he was in his 40's had medical marijuana to help with his stomach and keeping food down. If he was not in california what would his "medical" option have been when that was the ONE AND ONLY thing that actually worked for him?
> 
> He went to the best doctors in san francisco and various other specialists in the bay area and from all of that, medical marijuana was what worked.
> 
> Now imagine if he was in alabama or texas or another state that did not view marijuana as a medical alternative? Imagine if he had to go and locate medicine in an illegal fashion and got busted for it.
> 
> Who's fault is it that HE would have odds are ended up in jail trying to locate THE ONE THING that worked for him and kept him "happier" than he ever has been while dealing with colon cancer?
> 
> Imagine if it was legal, or at least medically legal for OTHER patients and people who KNOW marijuana can help them. 
> ...


shut the hell up. you're a broken record. i'm not a keyboard jockey running two accounts. that's stupid. you're being paranoid. GEE I WONDER WHAT DRUG HAS SEVERE PARANOIA AS A SIDE EFFECT.

and i haven't turned a new leaf, a decent sensible person came in here and argued with reason, logic, and not stupidity, so i treated him with respect. since you are incapable of doing that, i'm not handling you with the same gloves.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> and i haven't turned a new leaf, a decent sensible person came in here and argued with reason, logic, and not stupidity, so i treated him with respect. since you are incapable of doing that, i'm not handling you with the same gloves.


To be treated with respect, one must show respect to others.

Since you seem to think all marijuana users either support terrorism or are secret fascists, it seems your the only one with a paranoia problem.

Try researching the Nicaraguan Contras, the CIA in the past has supported terrorism AND drug smuggling.



Besides, in a free society, shouldn't people be allowed to ingest any substance they wish, as long as it doesn't harm others?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

----------


## newyearsrevolution08

> shut the hell up. you're a broken record. i'm not a keyboard jockey running two accounts. that's stupid. you're being paranoid. GEE I WONDER WHAT DRUG HAS SEVERE PARANOIA AS A SIDE EFFECT.
> 
> and i haven't turned a new leaf, a decent sensible person came in here and argued with reason, logic, and not stupidity, so i treated him with respect. since you are incapable of doing that, i'm not handling you with the same gloves.


Who has been sounding like a broken record this whole time. All you have been able to spew out is bull$#@! or misinformation. I at least came with facts and all you came with was your head up your ass.

Either way I will be happy to school you on this subject again anytime

----------


## silverlinkx2

> Who has been sounding like a broken record this whole time. All you have been able to spew out is bull$#@! or misinformation. I at least came with facts and all you came with was your head up your ass.
> 
> Either way I will be happy to school you on this subject again anytime


lol how are you schooling me? So far the three of you combined have managed to come up with my ex-gf dumped me for a mexican drug dealer (false), me and Dieseler are the same person (false), the US government makes money off the drug war (false, they lose way more), I think all drug users are terrorists or fascists (false), and I'm a racist (false).

Man, so much schooling, please don't school me anymore 

And if you're looking to use an unbiased source to prove your point, maybe you shouldn't use norml. If I had linked to something that had a ".gov" suffix you would have gone crazy.

----------


## Bruno

> lol how are you schooling me? So far the three of you combined have managed to come up with my ex-gf dumped me for a mexican drug dealer (false), me and Dieseler are the same person (false), *the US government makes money off the drug war (false, they lose way more),* I think all drug users are terrorists or fascists (false), and I'm a racist (false).
> 
> Man, so much schooling, please don't school me anymore 
> 
> And if you're looking to use an unbiased source to prove your point, maybe you shouldn't use norml. If I had linked to something that had a ".gov" suffix you would have gone crazy.


The U.S. government does make money off the Drug War.  It takes about $50 Billion from taxpayers to run it, and is handed out to fight its war.  So, yes, it does make money of the Drug War, and gains police state power in the process.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/fa...t_economic.cfm

You never saw doors being kicked down with battering rams and loaded AK-47's to bust pacifistic marijuana users before there was a Drug War.  

How do you mean that the U.S. loses money off the Drug War?  The only money I could see them losing is the amount that is lost through potential tax revenue from decriminalization.  If you mean through loss of productivity, far more is lost through legal hangovers from boozing it up than from illegal drug users missing work.  

A Drug War is a war on people who are guilty of a vicitimless crime unto themselves.  Criminalizing drugs creates the problem, not the solution. To arrest someone for doing "harm" to themselves and imprison them for choosing what to eat, drink, or smoke, it not only illogical but immoral.  

In Amsterdam, the Prime Minster has said, "We have succeeded in making smoking of cannibus boring".  The decriminalized it, and it has become a casual pastime that a smaller percentage enjoy than here in the United States, where it is illegal.   Their rate of smokers actually dropped, so did the amount of hard drug users, who often experimented with hard drugs for the first time because they had to find it on the Black Market - where harder drugs are also sold.

----------


## pc_oldskool

Ignoring the power in place will not change a thing. You must come into power in order to make a change.

----------


## M House

I kinda agree that it might be time for some to reconsider pot as it feeds the machine. It's just hemp that's been artificially bred up and grown for more THC. THC is mildly toxic and a hallucinogen, whoop de fricken do. Most of the beneficial chemical compounds that are touted so highly by some is simply cannabinol which is naturally high in all members of the family. It's been availible in pill form in Canada for years too. Been around plenty of stoners in college in and out, there was a nice guy dealer seemed benign, but I also knew highschoolers who would go downtown to shady $#@!s with police issues. One ended up paralyzed from something stupid he did either with the police, himself, or something else. Paranoia and drugs doesn't lead well to deciphering. Whatever, he ended up back with his mom only to be kicked out later for continuing his drug use.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> lol how are you schooling me? So far the three of you combined have managed to come up with my ex-gf dumped me for a mexican drug dealer (false), me and Dieseler are the same person (false), the US government makes money off the drug war (false, they lose way more), I think all drug users are terrorists or fascists (false), *and I'm a racist (false).*
> 
> Man, so much schooling, please don't school me anymore 
> 
> And if you're looking to use an unbiased source to prove your point, maybe you shouldn't use norml. If I had linked to something that had a ".gov" suffix you would have gone crazy.


You may not be a racist, but this little gem at least points to strong feelings of bigotry.




> Another typical trashy American woman 
> 
> Besides your obvious inferiority due to your gender and country of origin....

----------


## silverlinkx2

> You may not be a racist, but this little gem at least points to strong feelings of bigotry.


::Shrug:: I'm not a racist. I'm not a sexist either. I just happen to find most American women to be sociopathic.

----------


## dannno

> the US government makes money off the drug war (false, they lose way more).


No, TAX PAYERS lose money in the drug war. "THEY" make money.

----------


## silverlinkx2

> No, TAX PAYERS lose money in the drug war. "THEY" make money.


Governments don't "make" money. They tax people of their earned money and then spend it. And since they are doing nothing with that money but spending it, they are simply redistributing it. There are no profits earned off the drug war. Nobody's paying us to wage it.

----------


## MRoCkEd

> I think I'll write my next paper on legalizing weed - or should I do legalizing all drugs?


I asked my professor if I can write it on drug legalization/decriminalization and he said sure - but I need to make sure I consider both sides and try to convince the reader that my position is correct.

So - should I do weed or all drugs?
Any ideas would be great also.

----------


## CountryboyRonPaul

> ::Shrug:: I'm not a racist. I'm not a sexist either. I just happen to find most American women to be sociopathic.


Which makes them obviously inferior to you? Nullifying any arguement on their part and making you automatically right (in your own mind).

That's the impression your post gave.

Face it, you came in with a closed mind, insulting people left and right, and then expect an argument to be laid out for you?

Fine,

People are born with rights, prove to me we should take away a person's right to smoke pot?

Surely it's not because of the psycho-active chemicals in the drug, it's easily proveable that alcohol is a much more mentally, and physically damaging drug than THC.

Well then it must be that it infringes on the rights of others? Well, no not anymore than growing/smoking tobacco would. The only reason *any* black market criminal types grow/sell/smuggle pot is because it is illegal and therefore untaxable, unregulated, and a market most people will not go into aka. more profitable. Take the criminality out of the situation, and criminals would have to find some other illegal item to trade. 

All you need to do is look at the effects the 18th amendment.

So why then should pot be illegal? I know why the timber, and pharmaceutical industries lobby for criminalization. But what makes you hate pot so much?

Is it because a few people on Ron Paul forums made fun of you instead of indulging in your game of "give me attention plz, cuz i'm insulting you"?

Several good points have been made in this thread, but I haven't seen any compelling thoughts in support of why people don't have the right to do as they please with their own bodies.

----------


## silverlinkx2

> Which makes them obviously inferior to you? Nullifying any arguement on their part and making you automatically right (in your own mind).
> 
> That's the impression your post gave.
> 
> Face it, you came in with a closed mind, insulting people left and right, and then expect an argument to be laid out for you?
> 
> Fine,
> 
> People are born with rights, prove to me we should take away a person's right to smoke pot?
> ...


I never wanted any "argument" laid out before me. I've said it several times that I support decriminalization. Search my post history if you don't believe me. It's a waste of money prosecuting drug users. People are going to do what they want to do regardless of legality. History is a good indicator of this.

The only point that I was trying to make is that miserable people who think that it's their "right" to do something no matter who it hurts are criminals and should be locked up. That's irrelevant to whether something is illegal or not. This argument extends beyond pot. It also applies to sweatshops. Corporations go over seas and exploit 3rd world countries resources all the time because of the corrupt, ineffective governments here and abroad that allow it. It's still wrong, but legal, so all of a sudden it's ok to do it.

----------


## JeNNiF00F00

> ::Shrug:: I'm not a racist. I'm not a sexist either. I just happen to find most American women to be sociopathic.


LOL the plot thickens!  You not only think American women are whores, but now sociopaths.  I could understand why you have issues with women, but the ex cheating on you for the mexican drug dealer is just one fail at life.  Im sure you will have like 100 more fails before you die so its really more of a waste of energy to keep harping on your ex gf that never really loved you because she loved her mexican drug dealer more.  Damn...why don't you just put us out of our misery and kill yourself already.

----------


## auctionguy10

> I
> 
> . It also applies to sweatshops. Corporations go over seas and exploit 3rd world countries resources all the time because of the corrupt, ineffective governments here and abroad that allow it. It's still wrong, but legal, so all of a sudden it's ok to do it.


No- people who work in sweatshops do so out of their own accord. Many chinese moved from poor rural areas to areas where factories were to work. Why would they do that if they were being exploited? 

 People are not forced to work in those factories- they do so voluntarily. Why? Because those sweatshops pay much more and give them a much higher standard of living than other work opportunities available in those countries. When $12/day can buy you 2 weeks of groceries- that's fantastic. 

What happens if you take away those sweatshops? Those people are forced to move back into rural areas and face starvation. Nothing is wrong with working hard- these people aren't being "exploited" when they voluntarily accept to work for a factory.

----------


## silverlinkx2

> LOL the plot thickens!  You not only think American women are whores, but now sociopaths.  I could understand why you have issues with women, but the ex cheating on you for the mexican drug dealer is just one fail at life.  Im sure you will have like 100 more fails before you die so its really more of a waste of energy to keep harping on your ex gf that never really loved you because she loved her mexican drug dealer more.  Damn...why don't you just put us out of our misery and kill yourself already.


Everytime you open your mouth you prove my point. You'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now. You're a compulsive liar (by repeating the Mexican thing, which is false) and have also now proved yourself to be a sociopath by not only suggesting but also encouraging me to commit suicide. 

Whoever has you is such a lucky fellow.




> No- people who work in sweatshops do so out of their own accord. Many chinese moved from poor rural areas to areas where factories were to work. Why would they do that if they were being exploited? 
> 
>  People are not forced to work in those factories- they do so voluntarily. Why? Because those sweatshops pay much more and give them a much higher standard of living than other work opportunities available in those countries. When $12/day can buy you 2 weeks of groceries- that's fantastic. 
> 
> What happens if you take away those sweatshops? Those people are forced to move back into rural areas and face starvation. Nothing is wrong with working hard- these people aren't being "exploited" when they voluntarily accept to work for a factory.


Are you Chinese? Are you from China? Have you ever worked in China? Then why would you think you understand the life of a Chinese person? They have in fact an oppressive government that takes most of their productivity and either keeps it for the upper party classes or sells it off to other countries. Imagine how powerful China would be if they were allowed access to most of their own production and they weren't slaves to a socialist government that had terrible trade agreements with increasingly less attractive countries (like the US).

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## dannno

> Many chinese moved from poor rural areas to areas where factories were to work. Why would they do that if they were being exploited?


Probably because their land was taken by their government for some other industry and they were forced to move. That's usually how the whole sweatshop thing works. 

Checkout http://www.storyofstuff.com/

It's kinda got a "liberal" slant according to some, but I honestly can't really find any inaccuracies. It explains quite well the cycle of how the indigenous are exploited through the process of making American consumer goods and it explains precisely why you are unaware of it.

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## JeNNiF00F00

> Everytime you open your mouth you prove my point. You'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now. You're a compulsive liar (by repeating the Mexican thing, which is false) and have also now proved yourself to be a sociopath by not only suggesting but also encouraging me to commit suicide. 
> 
> Whoever has you is such a lucky fellow.


LOL Its very obviously why you have issues with women.  You're clueless.

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## auctionguy10

> Probably because their land was taken by their government for some other industry and they were forced to move. That's usually how the whole sweatshop thing works. 
> 
> Checkout http://www.storyofstuff.com/
> 
> It's kinda got a "liberal" slant according to some, but I honestly can't really find any inaccuracies. It explains quite well the cycle of how the indigenous are exploited through the process of making American consumer goods and it explains precisely why you are unaware of it.


If the government takes their land away for some other industry- then those people were going into complete poverty anyway. At least the factories that are open provide them with a way to live. But check out the average wages in honduras- and compare them to the sweatshop wages in honduras. The sweatshop workers earn  $13/day if I remember correctly compared to the average $2/day wage. Its not always some type of exploitation because you work hard to make clothes- I think thats pretty insulting to their intelligence.

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## silverlinkx2

> LOL Its very obviously why you have issues with women.  You're clueless.


Another outright lie. I don't have problems with women. Again I've said this. Only American/western sociopathic and compulsive liar women (like yourself).

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## JeNNiF00F00

> Another outright lie. I don't have problems with women. Again I've said this. Only American/western sociopathic and compulsive liar women (like yourself).


Are you still posting here?

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## CountryboyRonPaul

> I never wanted any "argument" laid out before me. I've said it several times that I support decriminalization. Search my post history if you don't believe me. It's a waste of money prosecuting drug users. People are going to do what they want to do regardless of legality. History is a good indicator of this.
> 
> The only point that I was trying to make is that miserable people who think that it's their "right" to do something no matter who it hurts are criminals and should be locked up. That's irrelevant to whether something is illegal or not. This argument extends beyond pot. It also applies to sweatshops. Corporations go over seas and exploit 3rd world countries resources all the time because of the corrupt, ineffective governments here and abroad that allow it. It's still wrong, but legal, so all of a sudden it's ok to do it.


If there is a demand for something, it will be bought no matter how much blood may be on the hands of those selling it.

History has proven that, whether it be diamonds, ivory, salt, opium, or bananas, unethical people will spill blood to get an edge in the market.

The best we can do is take away the incentive to conduct business in a way which infringes upon the rights of others, and punish those that DO directly infringe upon those rights..

Saying people should be locked up because what they're buying COULD have been smuggled by unethical people is preposterous...

I mean, do you use gasoline? Do you think Oil companies are 100% ethical and deserving of your money?

Do you pay your taxes? Do you support the War in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, etc. etc.?

I remember when France's PM criticized the US and idiots here stopped eating "French" Fries because they didn't want to support France. 

Your logic could be used to make virtually anything sound bad.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot you weren't American. Well, I'm sure your country has it's policies that you don't support.

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## silverlinkx2

> If there is a demand for something, it will be bought no matter how much blood may be on the hands of those selling it.
> 
> History has proven that, whether it be diamonds, ivory, salt, opium, or bananas, unethical people will spill blood to get an edge in the market.
> 
> The best we can do is take away the incentive to conduct business in a way which infringes upon the rights of others, and punish those that DO directly infringe upon those rights..
> 
> Saying people should be locked up because what they're buying COULD have been smuggled by unethical people is preposterous...
> 
> I mean, do you use gasoline? Do you think Oil companies are 100% ethical and deserving of your money?
> ...


Um I was born in Kansas and go to school in Florida. I've been following RP since the primaries but I didn't support him until recently. If I didn't have to pay my taxes I wouldn't. I don't support the War in Iraq. I don't support the war on terror or war on drugs in general. It's imperialistic in general and earns us a lot of resentment around the world. I have to buy gas to drive my car I have to have to work to pay my bills and my taxes and my student loans. I don't have a choice in that. If I had I choice I'd never buy another gallon of gas. But I made stupid choices growing up. I went into debt for a college I didn't need to go to for a degree I could have gotten elsewhere. I DON'T have a choice. Comparing oil and pot isn't a fair comparison because you don't have to have pot. The US is dependent on oil. 

But it doesn't matter. Like I've said SEVERAL TIMES I support decriminalization. The war on drugs is a waste. drug use hasn't gone down and all we're doing is putting people in jail and wasting tax payer money. But until the day it is legalized, all you're doing is making it worse by continuing to purchase it.

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## newyearsrevolution08

Here is refer madness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdhcNegZgU

There is also a refer madness 2, once I find that I will post it as well.

I love this part

54:00 on,

watch til atleast 60.00 it is great

look at the guy who is "looking crazy and needs REEFER" lol


looking for better video quality

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## newyearsrevolution08

> LOL the plot thickens!  You not only think American women are whores, but now sociopaths.  I could understand why you have issues with women, but the ex cheating on you for the mexican drug dealer is just one fail at life.  Im sure you will have like 100 more fails before you die so its really more of a waste of energy to keep harping on your ex gf that never really loved you because she loved her mexican drug dealer more.  Damn...why don't you just put us out of our misery and kill yourself already.


 I still can't get passed that whore comment. After that I can't really look at this guy with much of any respect at all really. There have been two occasions where a guy has called my wife a bitch and both ended up with them laid out on the floor.

 He got cheated on with a mexican drug dealer LOL, now that is funny.

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## silverlinkx2

> I still can't get passed that whore comment. After that I can't really look at this guy with much of any respect at all really. There have been two occasions where a guy has called my wife a bitch and both ended up with them laid out on the floor.
> 
>  He got cheated on with a mexican drug dealer LOL, now that is funny.


Look out posters, we got an Internet Tough Guy® here

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## MRoCkEd

I get the point that saying pot should be legal because you like using it is an ineffective argument. I think Ron Paul approaches the decriminalization argument the best - "I detest drugs. I have not used them and I teach my kids not to use them. However..." and then he goes on to talk about personal liberty and how the drug war does more harm than good

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## LibertyEagle

> So let me guess
> 
> ip addresses pretty much the same on these two?
> 
> Dieseler
> silverlinkx2
> 
> or they go to the same high school together who knows if it is even two people, they both have the same dumb ass responses that pretty much state the same close minded views.
> 
> maybe they have a new club opening up? they might do better in the obama corner he would more than happy ban ANYTHING especially if there MIGHT be a chance of someone getting hurt by SOMETHING.


They do not have the same IPs.  You are barking up the wrong tree.

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## LibertyEagle

Ok guys, please be civil to each other.

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## JeNNiF00F00

> But it doesn't matter. Like I've said SEVERAL TIMES I support decriminalization. The war on drugs is a waste. drug use hasn't gone down and all we're doing is putting people in jail and wasting tax payer money. But until the day it is legalized, all you're doing is making it worse by continuing to purchase it.


For some of us, "not buying" is not an option, and honestly after painstakingly  dealing with doctors and pharmaceutical companies and giving them tons of my money I don't think that giving them money is any better than giving money to some of these mexican cartels you are speaking of.

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## newyearsrevolution08

> For some of us, "not buying" is not an option, and honestly after painstakingly  dealing with doctors and pharmaceutical companies and giving them tons of my money I don't think that giving them money is any better than giving money to some of these mexican cartels you are speaking of.


I for sure don't buy mexican bammer. Last time mexican cartel "quality" was around here was when I was in highschool lol..

Docs are b.s. as well though, both take our money and kill people

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## newyearsrevolution08

> Look out posters, we got an Internet Tough Guy® here


I couldn't find a "flexing muscles" emoticon so I will just "look cool"

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## Bruno

Ban Hammer

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## JeNNiF00F00

> I for sure don't buy mexican bammer. Last time mexican cartel "quality" was around here was when I was in highschool lol..
> 
> Docs are b.s. as well though, both take our money and kill people


Exactly!  Where im at I think most peeps get their stuff from the hillbilly up the mountain that also brings down his moonshine for the dry counties.

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## Arklatex

Ah college and pot.  I remember my room gang being summoned by the campus to meet about a very peculiar oder by a maintenance man.  They had no proof.  Don't get caught with anything on you and your fine.  Smoke or eat all the evidence.   Then commit a violent crime.

lol

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## HOLLYWOOD

Curious to see this Special...

*http://www.cnbc.com/id/28284116*

CNBC'S "MARIJUANA INC: INSIDE AMERICA'S POT INDUSTRY" WILL PREMIERE JANUARY 22ND
Posted By: Steffanie Marchese

*CNBC'S "MARIJUANA INC: INSIDE AMERICA'S POT INDUSTRY"* WILL PREMIERE JANUARY 22, 2009

"MARIJUANA INC: INSIDE AMERICA'S POT INDUSTRY" will premiere on Thursday, January 22nd at 9PM/1AM ET. The show will repeat on Sunday, January 25th at 10PM ET.

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## dannno

> Don't get caught with anything on you and your fine.  Smoke or eat all the evidence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_VixlWsASI



(If the above link doesn't work:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwD_NVZqk_8 )

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