# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  Cain wins Florida Straw Poll

## Article V

Herman Cain 37.1% (986 votes)
Rick Perry 15.4% (410 votes)
Mitt Romney 14% (372 votes)
Rick Santorum 10.9% (289 votes) 
*Ron Paul 10.4% (276 votes)*
Newt Gingrich 8.4% (224 votes)
Jon Huntsman 2.3% (60 votes)
Michelle Bachmann 1.5% (40 votes)

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## smartguy911

hmm i guess that video he played before his speech made a difference.  I am happy with 10%.

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## ronpaulfollower999

Better than the polls. I'll take it.

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## freejack

lol wth?!?!

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## D.A.S.

Wow.  We expected Cain -- I did not expect the rest of the line-up at all!  One positive thing is that we came in double digits...

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## libertybrewcity

a win for 999

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## ronpaulfollower999

Jon Huntsman did better than Bachmann. Thats pretty funny.

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## Deinonychus

How the $#@! did Rick Santorum get more votes than Ron Paul?

Also, nein nein nein.

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## rp08orbust

If Ron had showed up for his speech, he probably would have beat Santorum.

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## eleganz

I was expecting 3rd or 4th but not 5th, disappointing but...

Let's just get to work people, let's just get to work.

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## bluesc

This Straw poll will be discredited hard. Good.

Ron did pretty well considering. I'm pleased.

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## libertybrewcity

middle finger to that lady's face when Ron Paul's name was announced.

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## TexMac

This is an excellent result.  Florida predicts the winner?  Bwahahaha!!

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## GopBlackList

So... should we put faith in this straw poll as the predictor of the future nominee?

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## libertybrewcity

HAHAHA, people yelling "999"!!

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

These results are completely screwy. I don't usually dismiss things like this, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

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## Kodaddy

Santorum???

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## eleganz

whoever is spamming in the livestream chatroom, I hope you don't act like that when campaigning for Paul.  The behavior in the chatroom is disgusting.

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## rp08orbust

Best possible outcome for 1st.

Not so happy about Ron skipping his speech and losing to Frothy.

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## freejack

> I was expecting 3rd or 4th but not 5th, disappointing but...
> 
> Let's just get to work people, let's just get to work.


what are you talking about?  He was only 5% from second!

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## Jwatt84

rp did good, not great tho. kinda expected herman cain would win cuz did good in georgia. how the hell did rick santorum do well? and wtf happened to michelle bachman. wow! guess her campaign is dead.

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## D.A.S.

I'm happy to see Cain win this, actually.  It's excellent that it was neither Perry or Romney.

I expect Bachmann to drop out in the near future...

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## Dr.RonPaulFan

How did Dr. Paul rank lower than that complete idiot Santorum? That makes no sense to me at all. I really wish Dr. Paul was there to give a speech though.

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## rp713

bachmann wont drop out till after the first primary.

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## eleganz

> I'm happy to see Cain win this, actually.  It's excellent that it was neither Perry or Romney.
> 
> I expect Bachmann to drop out in the near future...


That is one way to look at the bright side!

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## rp08orbust

Ron Paul has dodged a bullet.  P5 has been discredited.

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## 69360

So much for this poll always predicting the nominee. 

Results won't matter and will be barely reported since Cain won.

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## KramerDSP

What this poll probably did:

* Destroyed Perry and Bachmann once and for all
* Elevated Cain to a degree
* Dismissed the validity of the P5 straw poll
* Ron still had a 10% core despite a stacked deck against him. The GOP cannot win a general election without the backing of Ron Paul supporters, and this poll proved it.

I call this a win, with the exception of Santorum finishing in 4th.

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## Kodaddy

A lot of people interviewed said that a candidate who actually spoke there would get preference over one who didn't.

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## libertybrewcity

> These results are completely screwy. I don't usually dismiss things like this, but it just doesn't make sense to me.


I think it makes sense. I mean the Ron Paul campaign probably didn't promote this that much, and didn't feel it was necessary to spend the resources on winning this. Santorum and Cain probably spent a good chunk of money for their showing while Ron Paul can use that money to reach a gazillion more people with nationwide ad buys.

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## helmuth_hubener

I thought Huntman put a lot of resources into this and everyone was thinking he might win.

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## rp08orbust

Damnit.  Ron Paul could easily have come in 3rd if he hadn't bailed on his speech.

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## specsaregood

> bachmann wont drop out till after the first primary.


I think that partly depends on financing.  i wouldn't be surprised if her campaign is completely broke.  Continuing on might even hurt her future congressional race.

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## libertybrewcity

This also shows you that people are clueless on Federal Reserve Policy..oh wait, I'm so surprised..

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## Sunstruck-Eden

> Best possible outcome for 1st.
> 
> Not so happy about Ron skipping his speech and losing to Frothy.


I honestly don't know how Santorum got 11%.

But then again, Florida's older generation is generally pretty homophobic and warmongering, so he fits there nicely.

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## hellsingfan

So you see this poll was mostly establishment based. Since these delegates are mostly all establishment so for us to get 10% in that is actually significant and VERY good in my eyes. Anyone hoping for top 3 were clearly missing the point of who this poll represents: the establishment.

And the fact Ron didn't spend any money in organizing for this- probably because he knew its a waste of money trying to win this establishment poll- and still pulling off 10% is quite encouraging.

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## GopBlackList

> How did Dr. Paul rank lower than that complete idiot Santorum? That makes no sense to me at all. I really wish Dr. Paul was there to give a speech though.


I believe Romney and Perry ("the frontrunners") didn't do a speech either, so why should the other candidates that take themselves seriously do the same.

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## Aratus

I PUBLICALLY APOLOGISE TO ONE AND ALL WHEN I OPINION'D 2nd OR 3rd!  WHO KNEW WE'D BE  IN A  QUITE CLOSE TIE 
WITH MITT + 2 RICKS, SEPERATED FROM SECOND BY 3% OF THE VOTE! WITH Ms. MICHELE + GARY J. + JON H. TRAILING!

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## John F Kennedy III

5th isnt good. But Cain winning Presidency 5? This will be the first time the winner of this doesnt get the nomination.

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## GopBlackList

i think politicos are going to starting to write off the relevance of these straw polls.

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

They're really pumping it up on Fox. This is the 3rd time they've announced it so far.

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## John F Kennedy III

Theyre talking about it on fox news right now.

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## jason43

> how the hell did rick santorum do well? and wtf happened to michelle bachman.


Apparently the Neo-con homophobic war-monger pro-rapist breeding vote comes to about 11% of the Florida GOP. That is the 11% that is a complete lost cause and cant be helped with any level of logic, reason, etc...

Bachmann kept talking using statements aside from "one term president". 

The best part is how much money and time Perry devoted to this and that he failed...

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## Sunstruck-Eden

> So much for this poll always predicting the nominee. 
> 
> Results won't matter and will be barely reported since Cain won.


Which is sad, if you think about it. Just because we don't support him, he's not a complete douche like Perry and Romney and has some nice ideas, like completely reconstructing the EPA (999...not so much). He should get credit where credit is due.

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## Guitarzan

> They're really pumping it up on Fox. This is the 3rd time they've announced it so far.



This will be a great case study to show how Fox reacts to this straw poll against how they act to all the others that RP has dominated.

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## wgadget

> How did Dr. Paul rank lower than that complete idiot Santorum? That makes no sense to me at all. I really wish Dr. Paul was there to give a speech though.


The military is a big deal in FL, I'm guessing. And Santorum is the war candidate.

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## BSU kid

This imo is a very good thing! It opens the field up more, and might take the race out of the Romney vs. Perry mindset it is currently in. Ron Paul should be able to capitalize on the fall of Rick Perry.

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## eleganz

Haha...there was barely any news when RP won CA GOP straw poll but aside from that, I'm just glad Cain more than doubled Perry/Romney.  I rather Cain gain some temporary momentum from Perry and we can work on our campaign without distraction.

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## SlowSki

Cain is so happy all the time, I almost forget all that crazy stuff he said about Muslims a few months ago. I guess all the people who voted for him did too.

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## bluesc

Wow Fox are pushing this. Hopefully Cain takes some support from Perry to push Ron closer to 2nd.

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## Article V

What's clear in every straw poll is that voters are looking for candidates other than Romney.  They thought Bachmann might be the anti-Romney, till they realized she's potentially crazy and gaffe-prone.  They thought Perry might be the anti-Romney, because the media told them he was; but after the last debate, they've rejected Perry and are now searching for the new anti-Romney.

Cain is Tea Party charisma and simplicity.
Santorum is traditional GOP values.

Ultimately, I think Santorum will be rejected because his morality is too rigidly condemning of others.  And Cain will likely have trouble translating his support into actual votes in the primaries.

Huntsman is seen as Romney-lite, so he won't be the anti-Romney choice.
And Gingrich...well, Gingrich has baggage but is making slow in-roads with stellar & memorable debate performances.  He may have too much past baggage & too few funds to capitalize on his small successes...  but only time will officially tell.  Right now, I'm fairly confident he's not a threat.

We need to keep educating and keep pushing to be the anti-Romney candidate, so that we're the last anti-Romney candidate standing once the GOP has rejected all others.  But we also need to be aware that Cain and Santorum will likely endorse Romney at some point, considering Santorum hates Paul and Cain all but picked Romney as his VP at the Google debate.

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## KramerDSP

Carl Cameron: "Herman Cain will be the talk of conservatives around the country with this win"

Yet when RP won California 7 days ago, the media said "we are not sure how much effort the other candidates put into this race".

And if he wins Michigan tomorrow, how can they say the Florida straw poll will be more relevant than the Michigan one? I think they're going to tie themselves into knots by Monday, further exposing the hypocrisy.

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## wgadget

God knows RON has money...and a source of money.  Not so sure about Cain.

Gingrich and Hunstman not the threat we thought they'd be. Bachmann mostly dead.

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## LibertyEagle

> bachmann wont drop out till after the first primary.


I am not anxious for her to drop out.  She is attacking Perry.

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## jason43

> The military is a big deal in FL, I'm guessing. And Santorum is the war candidate.


I'm a vet, and I wouldnt vote for that Frothy chickenhawk to be my local dogcatcher.

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## D.A.S.

This sets up something interesting -- how will Cain advance in the poll after this boost and how will Romney and Perry be affected?  I like this.  If Cain can dislodge them for a while, this could really work to our advantage.  We're going at it under the radar, and I'm just fine with that.

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## pauliticalfan

This is bad for Perry, therefore good for us.

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## dolphin

> Herman Cain 37.1% (986 votes)
> Rick Perry 15%
> Mitt Romney 14%
> Rick Santorum 11%
> *Ron Paul 10%*
> Newt Gingrich 8%
> Jon Huntsman 2%
> Michelle Bachmann 1%


*I am near certain Ron Paul could have come in second had he actually targeted this poll.*

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## dolphin

> This is bad for Perry, therefore good for us.


Romney I think is far more dangerous than Perry.

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## RileyE104

This is actually very hilarious to me! 

If Cain were to win Florida, would that help us? Seeing as how it actually is a long-shot for Paul to win that state.

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## BSU kid

Herman Cain will steal from Perry...which is good.

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## sailingaway

Isn't Scott pretty much bound to endorse Cain now?  I mean, by Scott's own reasoning, Cain will be the nominee....

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## dolphin

> This is actually very hilarious to me! 
> 
> If Cain were to win Florida, would that help us? Seeing as how it actually is a long-shot for Paul to win that state.


'

*Cain did not really win. Romney had his people vote for him.*

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## jason43

> Santorum will likely endorse Romney at some point, considering Santorum hates Paul and Cain all but picked Romney as his VP at the Google debate.


Frothy cant endorce (formerly) pro-civil union, pro-choice, and mandated healthcare Mittens and have any credibility as a 'staunch conservative'. But he probably will endorce whoever he thinks will win as a calculated decision about who will give him a job. He is after all one of the nations 'millions of unemployed'

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## sailingaway

> This is actually very hilarious to me! 
> 
> If Cain were to win Florida, would that help us? Seeing as how it actually is a long-shot for Paul to win that state.


Do you think Cain would endorse Ron and give him delegates in the end?  Therein lies your answer....

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## kahless

> Which is sad, if you think about it. Just because we don't support him, he's not a complete douche like Perry and Romney and has some nice ideas, like completely reconstructing the EPA (999...not so much). He should get credit where credit is due.


I will never forget how Cain used to answer questions.  Something like "I cannot tell you what my policy will be until I am President.  I will then form a committee whom will give me all the facts and then I will tell you what my policy is."

Anyone else who answered questions in that manner would have been laughed out of the race already.  He seems like a helluva nice guy and like him as person however believe he gets a free pass because he is the only black Republican in the race and the the media is too afraid to criticize him.  If Cain was white he would not be receiving favorable media coverage and would not be polling enough to make the debates.  

He is there as the VP selection for whomever makes the primary since it is believed a multi-racial ticket is the only way to beat Obama and squelch the race card being played against Republicans.  If Paul or Perry does not make the nomination it is highly likely Cain will be on someones VP ticket.  (Perry's VP slot is reserved for Guiliani.)

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## Elfshadow

> *I am near certain Ron Paul could have come in second had he actually targeted this poll.*


You had to target it in JUNE.  All voters where selected months ago.  And 25% of it is GOP insiders.

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## LisaNY

I can't stop laughing!!  I can just see it now, "President Cain".  9 pizzas, 9 toppings, delivered in 9 minutes or you get the "right of return".

But seriously, Cain killed it and we should give him and his supporters credit for their efforts.

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## LawnWake

I'm happy with the results. They're completely inaccurate and really random so whatever, really.

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## anaconda

> a win for 999


Cain is surging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cain/Geithner 2012!

999 toppings available!

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## rp08orbust

> You had to target it in JUNE.  All voters where selected months ago.  And 25% of it is GOP insiders.


All of which was doable.  $500k would have bought registration, busing to Orlando and hotel rooms for 1,000 Ron Paul supporters.

Why the campaign did not so much as send out an email to all Ron Paul donors in Florida asking them to register for Presidency 5 in May, I will never know.

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## RileyE104

> Do you think Cain would endorse Ron and give him delegates in the end?  Therein lies your answer....


Nice reply, I was mainly just talking about Cain possibly diluting the votes and allowing Paul to slip ahead of Perry/Romney but what you said makes sense as well.

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## Maximus

But... but... Bachmann is top tier!

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## KramerDSP

> All of which was doable.  $500k would have bought registration, busing to Orlando and hotel rooms for 1,000 Ron Paul supporters.
> 
> Why the campaign did not so much as send out an email to all Ron Paul donors in Florida asking them to register for Presidency 5 in May, I will never know.


Best not to dwell on this. I know you really tried to get the campaign's attention on this, and we all appreciate what you've done thus far. Keep doing what you do and maybe the campaign will listen next time. Meanwhile, let's focus onward. What's the next big thing happening after this weekend?

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## muzzled dogg

Let it not be said that we didn't have the time to prepare for this

A few people here have been screaming about it for 6 months

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## Cabal

Incoming media spin: "We have a new Top Tier... Romney, Perry, and Cain."

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## sailingaway

> Best not to dwell on this. I know you really tried to get the campaign's attention on this, and we all appreciate what you've done thus far. Keep doing what you do and maybe the campaign will listen next time. Meanwhile, let's focus onward. What's the next big thing happening after this weekend?


I think the campaign may literally have thought it was not worth $500K, since Florida is probably not part of their main strategy.  If he raises $5 million this quarter, is that really where he should spead 1/10th of that?  Maybe not.  Iowa is one of the linchpins of Ron's strategy, that was different.  And since Iowa was open for all voters, preparing for the straw poll in itself helped build the organization needed for the campaign.

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## Article V

Herman Cain: My presidency won't cost America much, only $9.99.

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## Article V

Honestly, folks, giving new steam to Cain and Santorum to pull down Romney and Perry may be just the scatter-shot we need for Ron Paul to sneak into a competitive top 2!

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## Aratus

^please... no more pizza jokes until needful! its a subtle  subliminal boost for the intrepid ceo!^

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## 69360

I don't think it really matters much. Cain winning will have the MSM discrediting P5 just as much as if RP had won. 

Same results just cost half a million less. 

Unless... 

Cain did attend Bilderberg 2009. Is he going to replace Perry? You conspiracy guys can take over that one.

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## rp08orbust

> I think the campaign may literally have thought it was not worth $500K, since Florida is probably not part of their main strategy.  If he raises $5 million this quarter, is that really where he should spead 1/10th of that?  Maybe not.  Iowa is one of the linchpins of Ron's strategy, that was different.  And since Iowa was open for all voters, preparing for the straw poll in itself helped build the organization needed for the campaign.


What's mystifying is that it would have cost virtually nothing for the campaign to have laid the groundwork for a win before the June 10 deadline by urging supporters to apply.  The $175 registration fees were not due unless people were actually selected as delegates over the course of the summer.  So if the moneybombs turned out not to raise enough money for both Ames and P5, then they could have simply stopped registering P5 delegates.

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## KramerDSP

> I think the campaign may literally have thought it was not worth $500K, since Florida is probably not part of their main strategy.  If he raises $5 million this quarter, is that really where he should spead 1/10th of that?  Maybe not.  Iowa is one of the linchpins of Ron's strategy, that was different.  And since Iowa was open for all voters, preparing for the straw poll in itself helped build the organization needed for the campaign.


Good analysis. I think I agree. Florida is a tough cookie to crack.

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## kahless

> I don't think it really matters much. Cain winning will have the MSM discrediting P5 just as much as if RP had won. 
> 
> Same results just cost half a million less. 
> 
> Unless... 
> 
> Cain did attend Bilderberg 2009. Is he going to replace Perry? You conspiracy guys can take over that one.


Cain is establishments choice for VP.  I suspect they believe a multi-racial ticket is the only way to beat Obama and squelch the race card being played against Republicans. If Paul or Perry does not make the nomination it is highly likely Cain will be on someones VP ticket. Perry's VP slot is reserved for Guiliani but he would likely find a cabinet position for Cain.

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## afwjam

I think the campaign not focusing on straw polls from now on is a good thing. They know and we know we could win if we tried, we proved that at Ames. The campaigns time is better spent on other things, like getting Paul out to meet the masses.

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## rp08orbust

> Good analysis. I think I agree. Florida is a tough cookie to crack.


And yet Rick Scott is right about one thing: It just about has to be cracked in order to win the Republican nomination.

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## HeyArchie

Santorum loves war and so does the GOP.

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## Crickett

> God knows RON has money...and a source of money.  Not so sure about Cain.
> 
> Gingrich and Hunstman not the threat we thought they'd be. Bachmann mostly dead.


Not so sure about that. I got a recorded call from him yesterday and he said the campaign had big plans and were seriously short of money. They asked me for $1,000 which..no way!   They have and end of quarter ticker up on http://www.ronpaul2012.com and Ron said they needed 1.5 million by 9/30.

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## sailingaway

From the Washington Times:




> The result will win Mr. Cain some headlines, but the long-term impact of the poll on the nomination battle is difficult to read, as Mr. Romney and Mrs. Bachmann opted against aggressively competing in the poll.
> 
> (Mrs. Bachmann won the last high-profile straw poll in Iowa last month, but failed to get a bounce out of it.)
> 
> Mr. Perry, however, invested time and money into the contest. Heading into the event, he unveiled a leadership team for Presidency 5 led by Dean Cannon, speaker of the Florida House.
> 
> On Saturday, Mr. Perry hosted a breakfast for more than a thousand delegates and delivered his last pre-poll sales pitch, telling the crowd that Florida was a state that “picks presidents” and that it was a mistake for candidates to skip the “very important” straw poll.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...da-straw-poll/

You know, it is much more relaxing reading them trash someone else's win, other than Ron's....

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## Eleutheros

> I think the campaign may literally have thought it was not worth $500K, since Florida is probably not part of their main strategy.  If he raises $5 million this quarter, is that really where he should spead 1/10th of that?  Maybe not.  Iowa is one of the linchpins of Ron's strategy, that was different.  And since Iowa was open for all voters, preparing for the straw poll in itself helped build the organization needed for the campaign.


Edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sailingaway again.

To begin with, Florida is a diehard neocon establishment state.  To drop a ton of cash and spend considerable time and effort on a state whose political mindset really isn't conducive to the outcome RP's campaign is seeking isn't prudent.  Too much time, money, and effort for too little payoff.  Not a good strategy, and with the already high likelihood that we would not win, would not be a good look for us.  Sticking to the key primary states (Iowa, NH) is critical and the campaign is already diligently working on this as it is.

Strange as it may sound, we did good in this straw poll, and the outcome is actually more conducive to us improving in the polls.  With Cain winning and Perry and Romney losing to Cain by over half the votes puts us in a favorable spot, especially since if I'm not mistaken, neither one of them has won a straw poll yet.  The only downside to this is that we lost to Santorum.  Frankly that kinda hurts.

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## InTradePro

> What this poll probably did:
> 
> * Destroyed Perry


I predicted before the last debate that if Perry didn't win the Florida straw poll he would be gone. It might be hours, days or weeks for him to technically drop out but as of now he is effectively gone.

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## Crickett

If so,then they are Cain supporters and we might be in trouble..cause Cain gives great speech.

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## speciallyblend

this is awesome considering this poll was fixed by the gop establishment!!!

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## IterTemporis

Cain 986 37.1%
Perry 410 15.4%
Romney 372 14%
Santorum 289 10.9%
Paul 276 10.4%
Gingrich 224 8.4%
Huntsman 60 2.3%
Bachmann 40 1.5%

Here are more specific numbers.. Paul only lost by .5% to Santorum/13 votes.

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## sailingaway

> this is awesome considering this poll was fixed by the gop establishment!!!


I think they decided against Perry after the last debate and had no back up plan.  Well, congrats to Cain, for what it is worth.  I hope this doesn't hurt in Iowa, where they are looking for the new conservative guy.  Cain isn't going to be it, but Ron needs to catch a break somewhere.

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## libertybrewcity

moar confuzon?

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## Voluntary Man

yes. actually, that's something to keep in mind. many people are attracted to Cain because of his tax reform plan. once he's out, he'll either endorse Romney or Gingrich (if he's still in the race, and is polling strong enough) -- if anyone -- but many of his tax supporters will gravitate toward the candidate they see as most favorable on their issue. Paul won't get all of Cain's supporters, but he will get some.





> a win for 999

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## ericams2786

You know what I seriously love though about all this: Ron Paul wins the CA straw poll and it is a buried story, if even a story at all on Foxnews and other outlets. Cain wins this straw poll and he is front page news on Foxnews.com! I love it...

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## ZanZibar

> What this poll probably did:
> 
> * Destroyed Perry and Bachmann once and for all
> * Elevated Cain to a degree
> * Dismissed the validity of the P5 straw poll
> * Ron still had a 10% core despite a stacked deck against him. The GOP cannot win a general election without the backing of Ron Paul supporters, and this poll proved it.
> 
> I call this a win, with the exception of Santorum finishing in 4th.


Right on. Gov Rick Scott was correct that the road to the White House leads through Florida. 

In the general election Florida is a swing state. Polls have shown that _HALF_ of Ron Paul supporters will not support the nominee if the nominee isn't Ron Paul. In Florida that could mean anywhere from 4-6% of the Republican voting electorate. _Ron Paul supporters in Florida could decide the next President if Ron isn't the nominee!


_And considering how poorly the RPOF has treated Ron Paul supporters in the past, well let's just say that the consequence could be quite painful. If the Party doesn't understand this and start trying to correct the situation, then Obama very well may serve a second term.

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## sailingaway

> You know what I seriously love though about all this: Ron Paul wins the CA straw poll and it is a buried story, if even a story at all on Foxnews and other outlets. Cain wins this straw poll and he is front page news on Foxnews.com! I love it...


yeah, CBS is even running a headline that Cain got more votes than Romney and Perry combined.... EXACTLY what Ron did in California last weekend, without benefit of headline.

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## bluesc

> Right on. Gov Rick Scott was correct that the road to the White House leads through Florida. 
> 
> In the general election Florida is a swing state. Polls have shown that _HALF_ of Ron Paul supporters will not support the nominee if the nominee isn't Ron Paul. In Florida that could mean anywhere from 4-6% of the Republican voting electorate. _Ron Paul supporters in Florida could decide the next President if Ron isn't the nominee!
> 
> 
> _And considering how poorly the RPOF has treated Ron Paul supporters in the past, well let's just say that the consequence could be quite painful. If the Party doesn't understand this and start trying to correct the situation, then Obama very well may serve a second term.


Feels good, doesn't it ?

With all the power the establishment has, they will have to realize that the election will be decided by Ron Paul supporters. That goes for many other candidates across the country too. The liberty movement is a powerful one.

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## jkob

Coming in behind Santorum is disappointing but I'm not going to fret over it since Rick Perry self destructing is way more important. Herman Cain isn't a serious candidate.

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## sailingaway

Ron didn't speak.  Santorum did.  And they were both 10 point something percent, but Santorum was 10.88 or something, and rounded up, whereas Ron rounded down.

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## rp08orbust

I wonder if Perry's loss (which accelerates his demise) increases the chances that Chris Christie enters the race.

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

> Polls have shown that _HALF_ of Ron Paul supporters will not support the nominee if the nominee isn't Ron Paul.


Only half? I wouldn't support any of the other candidates under any circumstance. I'd rather have Obama again and set Rand up for 2016. If the GOP nominates one of these other guys, they deserve to get slapped down again.

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## georgiaboy

I agree with the general sentiment here that this is a great result considering the establishment bent of this event/straw poll.

I think Cain voters are generally not looking for a politician, they're looking for a straight shooting conservative.  Most if not all would skip from Cain to Paul overlooking Perry, Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Bachmann, Huntsman.

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## jason43

> Only half? I wouldn't support any of the other candidates under any circumstance. I'd rather have Obama again and set Rand up for 2016. If the GOP nominates one of these other guys, they deserve to get slapped down again.


I'd go so far to say that we may have cost McCain the election last time around. I didnt vote for him, and I've always voted GOP. Aside from him being clueless on the economy and being all about bombing everyone I hated his snarky condescending tone with Ron at the debates. "That kind of isolationism caused WWII." Right John, youre done for me.

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## Lovecraftian4Paul

*deep dish!!!*

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## ZanZibar

> All of which was doable.  $500k would have  bought registration, busing to Orlando and hotel rooms for 1,000 Ron  Paul supporters.





> *I am near certain Ron Paul could have come in second had he actually targeted this poll.*


Why waste the money and resources? Florida is unwinnable for us and is nothing but a money hole. It's winner-take-all, it's a primary, and a closed one at that. The campaign has nothing to gain by spending its resources there.

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## ZanZibar

> What's mystifying is that it would have cost  virtually nothing for the campaign to have laid the groundwork for a win  before the June 10 deadline by urging supporters to apply.  The $175  registration fees were not due unless people were actually selected as  delegates over the course of the summer.  So if the moneybombs turned  out not to raise enough money for both Ames and P5, then they could have  simply stopped registering P5 delegates.





> Why the campaign did not so much as send out an email to all Ron Paul donors in Florida asking them to register for Presidency 5 in May, I will never know.


I don't think the campaign even got started until Jun 1.

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## RDM

> Edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sailingaway again.
> 
> To begin with, Florida is a diehard neocon establishment state.  To drop a ton of cash and spend considerable time and effort on a state whose political mindset really isn't conducive to the outcome RP's campaign is seeking isn't prudent.  Too much time, money, and effort for too little payoff.  Not a good strategy, and with the already high likelihood that we would not win, would not be a good look for us.  Sticking to the key primary states (Iowa, NH) is critical and the campaign is already diligently working on this as it is.
> 
> Strange as it may sound, we did good in this straw poll, and the outcome is actually more conducive to us improving in the polls.  With Cain winning and Perry and Romney losing to Cain by over half the votes puts us in a favorable spot, especially since if I'm not mistaken, neither one of them has won a straw poll yet.  The only downside to this is that we lost to Santorum.  Frankly that kinda hurts.


I agree with a lot of your assessment. Let me add, that I believe the strategy to work heavy on the initial key states is probably the right strategy. Let me explain. A vast amount of voters are literally dumb when it comes to politics. They're fascination with a candidate is created by the media and their perception of who is popular. With that said, the strategy should be built on creating a "wave" of enthusiasm. By creating this sense of Ron Paul actually gaining momentum and winning the inititial key states creates a "buzz" around RP that begins to cause the "bandwagon" voters to jump on board because they start to hear their neighbor talking about RP, people in church talking about RP, people at work talking about RP, everywhere they go, they hear RP. People do act like sheep in general and will flock to the herd. It's a shame that the majority of Americans act that way when it comes to political candidates, but don't blame the game, just play it for what it is.
  That's why I don't think this Florida Straw Poll is a panic situation. I agree with the majority here, the 10% is a positive. It gives us a good indicator of where we stand and what we need to do. You build off that 10%. Now getting back to creating that "buzz" from one state to the next. If we win these first couple of primaries, that buzz gets started. The sheep in other states begin to follow the herd and the snowball effect kicks in eventually working its way into Florida and other states we may have weak support. That's how this election is going to be won. I do believe the campaign understands this, and I'm beginning to have confidence they strategically have a game plan to create this buzz along with the help of the supporters in the field doing their part.

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## RDM

> I wonder if Perry's loss (which accelerates his demise) increases the chances that Chris Christie enters the race.


I am 99.9% confident Christie will enter the race. That's how "psychopolitics" work. Oh, one more thing. Within a couple of weeks the Dems will begin to have their own "brand new" challenger to Obama. Cough..cough....Bernie....cough...cough.

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## specsaregood

Dr. Paul going to speak at LSU instead of hanging around FL was a sound choice.  We can take LA.  And last I checked, the LA caucus was earlier than FL.

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## Anti Federalist

> I think the campaign may literally have thought it was not worth $500K, since Florida is probably not part of their main strategy.  If he raises $5 million this quarter, is that really where he should spead 1/10th of that?  Maybe not.  Iowa is one of the linchpins of Ron's strategy, that was different.  And since Iowa was open for all voters, preparing for the straw poll in itself helped build the organization needed for the campaign.


This.

Iowa is critical.

NH is, as things stand right now, a lost cause, at least for a win. Romney is leading by double digits across the board.

An Iowa win will be the only way to shake that up.

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## sailingaway

> This.
> 
> Iowa is critical.
> 
> NH is, as things stand right now, a lost cause, at least for a win. Romney is leading by double digits across the board.
> 
> An Iowa win will be the only way to shake that up.


But don't the top 3 get delegates in NH as well?

I mean, I absolutely want the win in Iowa, but my fall back was substantial delegates from both places....

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## Aratus

if chris christie was going to go into the Democratic primaries, he'd have my respect.

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## Bruno

Win Iowa, take a solid 2nd in NH behind Mitt, the rest falls into place as the momentum builds and the electability issue is muted.

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## qh4dotcom

> rp did good, not great tho. kinda expected herman cain would win cuz did good in georgia. how the hell did rick santorum do well? and wtf happened to michelle bachman. wow! guess her campaign is dead.


I was there...Santorum had hot chicks waving banners and handing out stickers, he came to the bar party, was talking to the crowd in the hallways and gave a good speech at the end...If RP had given a speech at the end Santorum would not have finished ahead of him.

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## Anti Federalist

> In the general election Florida is a swing state. Polls have shown that _HALF_ of Ron Paul supporters will not support the nominee if the nominee isn't Ron Paul. In Florida that could mean anywhere from 4-6% of the Republican voting electorate. [I][B]Ron Paul supporters in Florida could decide the next President if Ron isn't the nominee!


Yes.

Let me go on record one more time:

*I Will Not Vote For Any Other GOP Candidate Other Than Ron Paul In 2012. Period.*

I will write in his name, vote third party or stay home, and will do everything in my power to convince others to do the same.

You are on notice, rank and file GOP'ers:

Unite behind us, or lose, like you did in 2008.

Your choice.

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## IterTemporis

> Yes.
> 
> Let me go on record one more time:
> 
> *I Will Not Vote For Any Other GOP Candidate Other Than Ron Paul In 2012. Period.*
> 
> I will write in his name, vote third party or stay home, and will do everything in my power to convince others to do the same.
> 
> You are on notice, rank and file GOP'ers:
> ...


My sentiments exactly.

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## ZanZibar

> Win Iowa, take a solid 2nd in NH behind Mitt, the rest falls into place as the momentum builds and the electability issue is muted.




But we must solidify our 2nd place position within the next 5 weeks. Otherwise the messaging channels will be too chocked full and we won't be able to compete. _That's why maxing out before the end of the quarter (Oct 1) is CRITICAL_!!!!!!

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## SlideShowGraphix.com

Check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDjPY_ngxNU

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

> My sentiments exactly.


+1

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## RonPaulRules

Cain has a huge radio show in Georgia and that area. Means nothing.

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## Article V

> Check this out!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDjPY_ngxNU


Why are we looking at a video form '07.

Romney didn't compete this time. Perry tanked. Santorum and Cain have no money to purchase a win in the straw poll.  

It's this kind of past-looking conspiracy-dwelling that makes us look crazy to other voters, no matter how credible our claims are.  Let it go!

Stay focused on the here and now, and let's concentrate on converting new supporters!

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## The Free Hornet

> Check this out!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDjPY_ngxNU


This great video shows the 2007 Florida Staw Poll literally being purchased by Romney supporters who were turning in 10, 20, 30 tickets PER PERSON.  The campaign may have figured it was not worth trying to buy the poll but not worth disregarding it altogether.  I take it from the inside nature of the poll, that Cain would have been 1st, 2nd, or 3rd regardless, but the top 5 candidates would be from 10-15% of the vote each (if you take 25% from Cain, which may be unfair).

Kudos & Rep to SlideShow for sharing.

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## D.A.S.

Rick Santorum finished only 13 votes ahead of Ron Paul because he was there to give a speech and work the crowds and pounced on Perry in the debate.  Ron Paul was less than 100 votes away from Romney, out of 2,667 votes total.  I think we're doing juuuust fiiiiiiiine, actually, if you consider sheer numbers.

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## Badger Paul

You know what, Cain winning this is actually a pretty good result for largely the same reasons the media dismiss our straw poll results.

Yes, I note the irony.

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## D.A.S.

> You know what, Cain winning this is actually a pretty good result for largely the same reasons the media dismiss our straw poll results.
> 
> Yes, I note the irony.


You're so right.  Cain did some heavy-lifting for us and dislodged the establishment a bit at P5.  The fact that the winner wasn't Romney or Perry is great news.

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## cero

> Why are we looking at a video form '07.
> 
> Romney didn't compete this time. Perry tanked. Santorum and Cain have no money to purchase a win in the straw poll.  
> 
> It's this kind of past-looking conspiracy-dwelling that makes us look crazy to other voters, no matter how credible our claims are.  Let it go!
> 
> Stay focused on the here and now, and let's concentrate on converting new supporters!



did you watch the video? there is no conspiracy here, maybe you out to follow your own rule and stop bring up "conspiracies"

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## Badger Paul

The Democrats do not allow their state parties to have straw polls, and considering whose won the supposed "big" polls in Iowa and Florida this year, I wonder if the Republicans won't do the same in the future. Has this campaign benefited from straw polls? Yes but only to a point. Sure they can provide a burst of news (and certainly it will be true for Cain) but I doubt a lot voters are swayed one way other nowadays.

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## Badger Paul

_"To begin with, Florida is a diehard neocon establishment state. To drop a ton of cash and spend considerable time and effort on a state whose political mindset really isn't conducive to the outcome RP's campaign is seeking isn't prudent. Too much time, money, and effort for too little payoff. Not a good strategy, and with the already high likelihood that we would not win, would not be a good look for us. Sticking to the key primary states (Iowa, NH) is critical and the campaign is already diligently working on this as it is."_

If we do well in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, we'll be okay in Florida even if don't dump a ton of cash on Florida. And we would be stupid to do so.

One thing to note, RP polls better in the North and West than he does in South while vise-versa for Cain or Gingrich. It may well be, for RP to win the nomination, he'll have to be the "non-Southern candidate" (remember he is originally from Pennsylvania) and take that away from Romney. And he can only do that in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada and Maine and Minnesota. Those are the key states we need to do well in.

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## Aratus

he picks jack hunter as his veep? ticket balancing?

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## Article V

> The Democrats do not allow their state parties to have straw polls, and considering whose won the supposed "big" polls in Iowa and Florida this year, I wonder if the Republicans won't do the same in the future. Has this campaign benefited from straw polls? Yes but only to a point. Sure they can provide a burst of news (and certainly it will be true for Cain) but I doubt a lot voters are swayed one way other nowadays.


The straw polls are meant to fill the coffers of the state GOP offices.  There's no chance the state offices would ever surrender such huge money-making schemes unless they are forced to do so by law.

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## kojirodensetsu

Rick Santorum is the biggest tool I've ever seen in my entire life.

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## Karsten

Cain won fair and square. However, isn't it amazing how much more coverage he is getting on his win, whereas Ron Paul's win in the California straw poll was barely a footnote in the press???

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## D.A.S.

> Cain won fair and square. However, isn't it amazing how much more coverage he is getting on his win, whereas Ron Paul's win in the California straw poll was barely a footnote in the press???


Well, Herman Cain did prominently highlight his recent visit to Israel in the recent debate and said that whoever attacks Israel basically attacks the USA.  This in itself, plus his connections to the Kansas City Fed, earns him a resounding OK to be covered richly by the media.

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## Anti Federalist

> My sentiments exactly.





> +1


*No One But Paul.*

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## mnewcomb

3,500 delegates but only 2,700 ballots? I was there. There were more than 270 Ron Paul supporters in the crowd...

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## Voluntary Man

The Democratic congressmen from N.Fla have historically been more conservative than the Republican congressmen from S.Fla.

The Republican party in Florida, from Gainesvilles down, is indistinguishable from the Republican party in MA.

Their only issues are lower taxes, law-n-order, and eternal fraternity with the U.N.-created, modern state of Israel, right or wrong. 

Cain knew what he was doing at the debate. His suicide pact with Israel line won him the loudest cheers of the night.

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## BlackTerrel

> Cain won fair and square. However, isn't it amazing how much more coverage he is getting on his win, whereas Ron Paul's win in the California straw poll was barely a footnote in the press???


I don't know about that.  Most of the coverage is still about Perry in these articles.  And the comments from Cain supporters are all about how Cain isn't getting the coverage he deserves.

http://news.yahoo.com/herman-cain-wi...215349575.html

It's a matter of perspective but being objective the media is not treating Cain like a legitimate candidate.

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## rp08orbust

> This great video shows the 2007 Florida Staw Poll literally being purchased by Romney supporters who were turning in 10, 20, 30 tickets PER PERSON.  The campaign may have figured it was not worth trying to buy the poll but not worth disregarding it altogether.  I take it from the inside nature of the poll, that Cain would have been 1st, 2nd, or 3rd regardless, but the top 5 candidates would be from 10-15% of the vote each (if you take 25% from Cain, which may be unfair).


The Florida straw poll in 2007 was completely unrelated to Presidency 5 this year.

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## angelatc

> It's a matter of perspective but being objective the media is not treating Cain like a legitimate candidate.


I was watching Fox when the results were announced, and I had to laugh.  Carl Cameron said this win was huge for Cain - it proved he had lots of support and would result in the campaign's ability to get media coverage and attract big money donors.    Whereas, of course, when Paul wins any poll, it doesn't mean anything.

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## Article V

Also, there's nothing surprising about the media coverage of the Florida straw poll over the California straw poll.  California is not a strong Republican state, it's straw poll largely only matters for the nomination but not so much in the general.  Florida, on the other hand, is a swing state that usually goes red; therefore, whoever Florida picks for the GOP nomination matters more to the media.

I didn't see all you conspiracy theorists complaining when the media ignored Santorum's straw poll win in Pennsylvania.  Clearly Pennsylvania is a more important state than California as far as the GOP and media are concerned.

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## rp08orbust

> I don't think the campaign even got started until Jun 1.


I was talking to some campaign staff about P5 before that.

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## rp08orbust

> Dr. Paul going to speak at LSU instead of hanging around FL was a sound choice.  We can take LA.  And last I checked, the LA caucus was earlier than FL.


I believe it was quite possible for him to do both.

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## rp08orbust

> But don't the top 3 get delegates in NH as well?
> 
> I mean, I absolutely want the win in Iowa, but my fall back was substantial delegates from both places....


I believe delegates in NH are apportioned based on vote percentages in excess of 10%.  So if Romney gets 40% and Ron Paul gets 15%, Romney would get (40 - 10)/(15 - 10) = 6 times as many delegates as Ron Paul.

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## Article V

> I believe delegates in NH are apportioned based on vote percentages in excess of 10%.  So if Romney gets 40% and Ron Paul gets 15%, Romney would get (40 - 10)/(15 - 10) = 6 times as many delegates as Ron Paul.


What a kooky method of determining delegates.  Give the guy 6 times as many delegates when he only had less than 3 times as many votes.  Someone needs to rethink that method.

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## rp08orbust

> What a kooky method of determining delegates.  Give the guy 6 times as many delegates when he only had less than 3 times as many votes.  Someone needs to rethink that method.


It's just a compromise between winner takes all, which many states have, and proportional allocation of delegates, which many states have.  Many other states have a mixture, and NH's way of doing it makes as much sense as any other's.

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## wgadget

So the straw poll was supposed to be from 4:30-6:00pm, and the results were announced at 5:50pm...Makes sense to me.

http://www.presidency5.com/about/


*SATURDAY 9/24
Presidency 5 Registration – OCCC South Hall Room S210
7:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m.

Presidency 5 Program – OCCC South Hall – SA1
Doors open 8:00 a.m. – 9:00 a.m.

Morning Program featuring Andrew Breitbart, Attorney General Pam Bondi, Chief Financial Officer Jeff Atwater, Commissioner of Agriculture Adam Putnam, President of the Senate Mike Haridopolos and Speaker of the House Dean Cannon
9:00 a.m. – 11:45 a.m.

Lunch
11:45 a.m. – 1:15 p.m.

Keynote Address by Governor Rick Scott
1:15 p.m. – 1:35 p.m.

Presidential Candidate Remarks
1:35 p.m. – 4:30 p.m.

Presidential Straw Poll
4:30 p.m. – 6:00 p.m.*

Check ArticleV's time/date stamp:

*Yesterday 03:46 PM #1
Article V
Article V is online now
Member Article V is on a distinguished road

Join Date
    Jun 2011
Location
    New Orleans, LA
Posts
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Default Cain wins Florida Straw Poll

    Herman Cain 37.1% (986 votes)
    Rick Perry 15.4% (410 votes)
    Mitt Romney 14% (372 votes)
    Rick Santorum 10.9% (289 votes)
    Ron Paul 10.4% (276 votes)
    Newt Gingrich 8.4% (224 votes)
    Jon Huntsman 2.3% (60 votes)
    Michelle Bachmann 1.5% (40 votes) 

*

Apparently, 24% of the delegate total did not vote at all...They shelled out $175 a person for the weekend, and didn't vote..uh-huh.  The word, too, is that each official delegate had an alternate, just in case.  

Smell the Florida fraud...Such a sweet aroma.  More at http://www.dailypaul.com/180186/flor...pdated-results

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## Aldanga

Time zone difference. The time stamp is 4:46 for me, which would make it 5:46 in Florida.

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## wgadget

> Time zone difference. The time stamp is 4:46 for me, which would make it 5:46 in Florida.



Yes, but according to the schedule, the voting was to be from 4:30pm-6:00pm.  5:46pm is before it was supposed to close. 

On further investigation, it seems that the voting ENDED BEFORE 4:00pm!!  This from KurtA of the DailyPaul:

*I was a Delegate at P5, and was appalled at the...
Submitted by KurtA on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 19:06.

...way the "straw poll" was conducted.

First of all, voting was publicized as taking place between 4:30 and 6:00 pm.

But the voting started CLOSING before 4pm!! That's right, some people were told before 4pm that it was too late for them to vote in a poll that wasn't supposed to open until 4:30pm.

I had to chase down the county chairman and plead my case (Hey! I'm here a half hour before the poll is supposed to open and I'm too late to vote!!!???)

So they gave me a ballot. Picture guys walking around with envelopes full of ballots, handing them out, having people mark them, and then just hand them back to be stuffed back into the envelope. Picture dozens of guys doing this all over the auditorium full of people. Picture them not asking what country they're from, asking for delegate credentials, just handing out ballots to anyone who asks.

It raised a few questions:

1) Was there ANY control over the ballots at all? Did anyone count the number of ballots issued per county and match it to the number of delegates? I recognized that I could have voted a dozen times or more just by going to different envelope holders.

2) If there was no ballot control, isn't it a little like the Fed printing money?

3) If there WAS some sort of control, (like only one ballot issued per delegate) what happened to all the unmarked ballots (from the people who expected to vote after 4:30)? Did someone just mark them with their choice of candidate (stuffing the ballot box)? Throw them out? What?

4) After marking the ballot, you placed the ballot back into the envelope. and the same guy who handed you the ballot, walked off with it. To do what? To throw away the ballots he didn't want counted?? To stuff more ballots in? to mark up the excess ballots?

5) Who counted the ballots? As Stalin said (paraphrased), "Who cares how people vote - if you control who counts the votes!!?

The entire process was slap-dash, slip-shod, sloppy - a joke!

Of course, there's no point in identifying failure if there's not a better way to do things.

So how about this?

ISSUE BALLOTS WITH THE DELEGATE CREDENTIALS. That way, the ballot is in the hands of the delegate from the start and ballots are issued 1 per delegate. No opportunity to vote multiple times. No extra ballots issued. Just one ballot per voter.

Have the delegates mark the ballot and put them into the voting machines just as they do when voting in an election. No middle man. No extraneous handling. No B.S.

Now you could still have electronic fraud in the voting machine - but these recommendations certainly tighten up the process and eliminate a dozen ways to affect the outcome.

Frankly, I was embarrassed and angered. Embarrassed, because if this is the best the Florida Republican Party can come up with, we're better off without it. Angered because I felt the entire straw vote process was undermined and diminished by one of the sloppiest voting processes I've ever seen.

$170 for this BS? I want my money back!*

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## american.swan

The American pronunciation of 9 is the same as the German pronunciation of "no".  So if a German watched some 9 9 9  chant, it would be "no no no".  Maybe there's a reason for this.

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## Aratus

he would  have been safer with 7 7 7 or 5 5 5 insted of 9 9 9

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## muzzled dogg

how about 0 0 0?

----------

