# Lifestyles & Discussion > Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies >  Mike Adams: Bitcoin has failed

## itshappening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIEZE6gIWWw

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## RickyJ

I don't think it has failed, it is the incompetence of the exchange providers to protect and keep their servers up.

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## Carehn

Bitcoin is the end all save all.
Bitcoin has failed.
Bitcoin up a kadrillion %.
Bitcoin has crashed.
Bitcoin Is to unstable to be a currency. Why? Because I'm not about to be holding that hot potato. And I'm the average guy.

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## Natural Citizen

> I don't think it has failed, it is the incompetence of the exchange providers to protect and keep their servers up.


Or maybe the 1% maneuvering into the .01 percentile?

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## Petar

Give it time....

Bitcoin will go up even higher, and then it will crash again... up even higher, and then crash again... that is what I see as the overall pattern regarding bitcoins.

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## Carehn

> Give it time....
> 
> Bitcoin will go up even higher, and then it will crash again... up even higher, and then crash again... that is what I see as the overall pattern regarding bitcoins.


Does that sound like a money you want to be paid in?

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## RickyJ

> Does that sound like a money you want to be paid in?


I don't want it myself, but it does beat the US dollar which only goes down with time.

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## Petar

> Does that sound like a money you want to be paid in?


To some extent, yes, very much so. 

Also, I think that as bitcoin finds its place in the market more and more, it will become less and less susceptible to crashes.

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## Carehn

> I don't want it myself, but it does beat the US dollar which only goes down with time.


I dont think it does and here is why
1. You will never be able to pay your taxes with it.
2. If it ever does start to compete the state will crush it. Smash shops who take it. Make it illegal even. 
3. It has no other use outside of trade. This is the killer.
4. I'm willing to bet it can be hacked (counterfeited).
5. It is unstable as $#@!! 
6. You are about to see a thousand knockoffs identical to bitcoin but by a different name. (MARK MY WORDS)

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## RickyJ

> I dont think it does and here is why
> 1. You will never be able to pay your taxes with it.
> 2. If it ever does start to compete the state will crush it. Smash shops who take it. Make it illegal even. 
> 3. It has no other use outside of trade. This is the killer.
> *4. I'm willing to bet it can be hacked (counterfeited).*
> 5. It is unstable as $#@!! 
> 6. You are about to see a thousand knockoffs identical to bitcoin but by a different name. (MARK MY WORDS)


This also applies to other currencies as well, your bank account can be hacked, digital dollars can be hacked. I don't even see bitcoin as a currency right now, it is more like a stock, so I wouldn't want to be paid in it. I don't want to be paid in dollars either, I want gold, silver, ammo and guns as payment.

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## Tod

This kind of highlights how the internet allows for extremely rapid fluctuations in value, which will no doubt bother a lot of ordinary people.  This is something I had not considered before tonight.  It would seem that one of the important features of a good currency is stability.

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## Carehn

> This also applies to other currencies as well, your bank account can be hacked, digital dollars can be hacked. I don't even see bitcoin as a currency right now, it is more like a stock, so I wouldn't want to be paid in it. I don't want to be paid in dollars either, I want gold, silver, ammo and guns as payment.


Like you said. It doesn't apply to my silver or lead. It doesn't apply to my land or food stock or gas. It doesn't even apply to my good name (credit). Sadly, like it does paper money, all these things do apply to bitcoin.

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## devil21

> Give it time....
> 
> Bitcoin will go up even higher, and then it will crash again... up even higher, and then crash again... that is what I see as the overall pattern regarding bitcoins.


Sounds like most every market I guess.  Is inflation a natural law?  Probably for another thread.

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## itshappening

He's right though.  Bitcoin is fundamentally flawed.  

Do you really want to put over $10k in bitcoin because you can't take that much over the border or travel with it or whatever? I mean let's get real here.  And merchants are not going to put up with something that is going to fluctuate so wildly.

All of this is BEFORE the Feds and Chuck Schumer starts targeting it with sanctions.

Bitcoin is dead. Long live gold and silver.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Bitcoin is dead. Long live gold and silver.

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## LibertyRevolution



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## muh_roads

> He's right though.  Bitcoin is fundamentally flawed.


Gox is the flaw.  They will adapt or someone else will do their job better.




> Do you really want to put over $10k in bitcoin because you can't take that much over the border or travel with it or whatever?


It is still the best option to secretly move money, yes.




> And merchants are not going to put up with something that is going to fluctuate so wildly.


I think the opposite will happen as the economy keeps getting $#@!tier.  Merchant fees will keep rising.  Never thought I'd see a board hate BTC so much that they would rather embrace digital FRN's...lol




> All of this is BEFORE the Feds and Chuck Schumer starts targeting it with sanctions.


Yes sanctions sure prevented Iranians from using it didn't they?  
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...rtual-currency




> Bitcoin is dead.


$70 is not dead...lol  After all of the $#@! that has been going on it is more than double the 2011 high.  We are still in the beginning stages.




> Long live gold and silver.


You sound threatened for some reason?  Why do you act as if a decentralized payment processor is competing with metals?  It is for ATTAINING metals when you relocate.  Or attaining whatever you want.  Expatriating is going to keep rising.

Amazing to see so many people fight against their own interests.  Lots of non-technical people around here.  The problem with the FUD movement is that they think there won't be a tomorrow and therefore can only see what is in the moment.

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## PaulConventionWV

Gold and silver are crashing.  SELL SELL SELL!

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## TheTexan

it may take a decade or more to stabilize and be widely used, but no it aint dead

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## talkingpointes

> Does that sound like a money you want to be paid in?


Well if it means losing value, yet if I was paid from the beginning it still has me up 100000% then yes.

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## itshappening

*"It is still the best option to secretly move money, yes."*

Yeah, maybe if you want to lose it all. Who the hell is going to do that? You would need your head examined.

Face it bitcoin is dead.  it was fun while it lasted.

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## dannno

> *"It is still the best option to secretly move money, yes."*
> 
> Yeah, maybe if you want to lose it all. Who the hell is going to do that? You would need your head examined.
> 
> Face it bitcoin is dead.  it was fun while it lasted.


Are you people _purposely_ trying to discredit yourself?

Bitcoin is holding solid at around $80/coin which is still 4 times the value of a few weeks ago. Bitcoin is "dead"?? You're the one who needs your head examined.

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## talkingpointes

> it may take a decade or more to stabilize and be widely used, but no it aint dead


No kidding right, it might be "dying", but it's not dead. For something to be dead it can't be showing signs of life. Too say bitcoin is in it's throes is just laughable.

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## itshappening

As for Iran, the sanctions have forced them to sell their oil in GOLD. Not Bitcoins. The Iranian state is not going to use bitcoin. Stop dreaming. They want the gold.

No significant transaction will ever be done in bitcoin.  You cannot tolerate such fluctuations.  It's a novelty for small transactions and nothing more.

Bitcoin is dead, dead, dead! 

And thank God I dont have to hear Max Keiser hyping the crap out of it any more.

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## dannno

> As for Iran, the sanctions have forced them to sell their oil in GOLD. Not Bitcoins. The Iranian state is not going to use bitcoin. Stop dreaming. They want the gold.
> 
> No significant transaction will ever be done in bitcoin.  You cannot tolerate such fluctuations.  It's a novelty for small transactions and nothing more.
> 
> Bitcoin is dead, dead, dead! 
> 
> And thank God I dont have to hear Max Keiser hyping the crap out of it any more.


Ya I hate being paid in currency that is going to constantly increase in value

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## itshappening

> Ya I hate being paid in currency that is going to constantly increase in value


Or crash to $0? Yeah that's smart.

Good luck dude.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Precious metals:


Bitcoin:


Back to the drawing board folks...

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## talkingpointes

> Or crash to $0? Yeah that's smart.
> 
> Good luck dude.


Crash to zero... Has that happened yet, or is that a postulation?

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## itshappening

> Crash to zero... Has that happened yet, or is that a postulation?



Doesn't mean it can't happen... Simple question is would you - or anyone - put significant $ into bitcoin ? I wouldn't and no one else would after a crash from $260 to $80 ??? Are you for real? This thing is dead. Get over it.  Move on.

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## FSP-Rebel

> Doesn't mean it can't happen... Simple question is would you - or anyone - put significant $ into bitcoin ? I wouldn't and no one else would after a crash from $260 to $80 ??? Are you for real? This thing is dead. Get over it.  Move on.

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## kcchiefs6465

> 


Lmao. Someone must have some big money in BTC.

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## muh_roads

> Lmao. Someone must have some big money in BTC.


We just care very little about the ramblings from the peanut gallery.

Buywhatchulike.

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## dannno

> Doesn't mean it can't happen... Simple question is would you - or anyone - put significant $ into bitcoin ? I wouldn't and no one else would after a crash from $260 to $80 ??? Are you for real? This thing is dead. Get over it.  Move on.


We want bitcoin to succeed because we see it as one of the only viable solutions to taking out the entire financial oligarchy. Then we see people on here whining about how it went from $20-$255 and back down to $80 or $90 like that is some horrible thing that happened.

It isn't going to be easy. The currency will have some volatility. This is all expected. If you want to give up, fine, but this is our fight for liberty so stop $#@!ting on it.

A *responsible* bitcoin detractor would tell people not to put their life savings into bitcoin, if they are going to put any money in put money in that they expect they might lose. 

You are not a responsible bitcoin detractor, you're telling us that our revolution is over and to completely ignore one of the most innovative things to happen to money since the Chinese, or possibly all time. That's just ridiculous.

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## kcchiefs6465

> We just care very little about the ramblings from the peanut gallery.
> 
> Buywhatchulike.


Thank you. And are you willing to tell people that it may not be wise to invest their life savings into this virtual pyramid? Of course not. Buy, buy, buy. You'll continue to make threads about how super-awesome and fail proof this is, and about how low the risks are, and about how much money there is to be made in this ripe market. You'll continue to 1 star rate threads that disagree with your narrative and continue to promote something you are very obviously personally vested in. Your 'buywhatchulike' quips and usual responses only attempt to reaffirm your constant barragement of bull$#@! and that my position is illogical and BTC will make everyone rich. (to the moon, I think you put it) It would be comical if so many good people weren't getting caught up in this bull$#@!. Greed will hardly win. Those 'HOLDing' or claiming it to be 'unstoppable' will very much lose the majority of their investment and be stuck with nothing but a $#@!coin virtual wallet. You are a snake. Nothing more. I won't invest in your virtual BTCs. Thanks for the permission. I'd much appreciate if you would come back towards reality when attempting your pitch to get others involved. That is all.

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## dannno

> Thank you. And are you willing to tell people that it may not be wise to invest their life savings into this virtual pyramid? Of course not. Buy, buy, buy.


This is such bull$#@!, how can you even type it?? Nobody has said anything about investing their life savings into bitcoin, most of us have been saying to buy 1 or 2 bitcoins.. or a few if you have a lot of extra money and you do your due diligence and decide that is what you want to do.

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## kcchiefs6465

> This is such bull$#@!, how can you even type it?? Nobody has said anything about investing their life savings into bitcoin, most of us have been saying to buy 1 or 2 bitcoins.. or a few if you have a lot of extra money and you do your due diligence and decide that is what you want to do.


You have been the only one I've seen to even remotely admit the risks. Albeit I haven't been following every single thread on it. (there are like five new ones daily) I believe you mentioned that you will not be staying with BTC forever? I vaguely recall your postings as the only ones of BTC promoters who are grounded in reality.

All I see is buy, buy, buy. The market is ripe, BTC is going to the moon. I've seen numbers as high as $10,000 per BTC. It's bull$#@!. Many people probably lost their asses listening to your advice. (whether you told them to invest their life savings or not, the tempation and hype was there- to the moon, I think was a common consensus) My point in posting here is not to discourage those who wish to look into and invest BTC. It is to add a shred of sanity. BTC isn't replacing everything, it's not anonymous, even ZeroBIT isn't going to be anonymous, (back doors will surely be in place) and it will come to an end. Newbitech had some very good advice on how you should be playing this. Your (and many others) advice of "HOLD" (as if it is sure fire to go back to the levels it was at) is not good advice in and of itself. (*Some*) People will get rich from BTC, sure as hell they will switch to another means of wealth storage. (probably dollars or euros) You may make some money.. even a good return on your investment, but to continually pump this up is uncalled for. In 'Sound Money' of all places. SMDH.

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## AGRP

> Lmao. Someone must have some big money in BTC.

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## jmdrake

> 





> 


Bitcoin hasn't been around 10 years.  If alternatives to USDs like gold and silver are dropping at the moment, you'd expect BTC do so the same.

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## muh_roads

> Thank you. And are you willing to tell people that it may not be wise to invest their life savings into this virtual pyramid? Of course not. Buy, buy, buy. You'll continue to make threads about how super-awesome and fail proof this is, and about how low the risks are, and about how much money there is to be made in this ripe market. You'll continue to 1 star rate threads that disagree with your narrative and continue to promote something you are very obviously personally vested in. Your 'buywhatchulike' quips and usual responses only attempt to reaffirm your constant barragement of bull$#@! and that my position is illogical and BTC will make everyone rich. (to the moon, I think you put it) It would be comical if so many good people weren't getting caught up in this bull$#@!. Greed will hardly win. Those 'HOLDing' or claiming it to be 'unstoppable' will very much lose the majority of their investment and be stuck with nothing but a $#@!coin virtual wallet. You are a snake. Nothing more. I won't invest in your virtual BTCs. Thanks for the permission. I'd much appreciate if you would come back towards reality when attempting your pitch to get others involved. That is all.


Yes.  When my co-worker friend got $1000 in @ $10 I kept telling him to  take his profits and enjoy it.  I knew he  lived paycheck to paycheck.  I think he finally got out around $40-$60.  He got pissed @ me when it kept going past $200.  How was I to know?

Yes I was telling people about it on this board @ $30 with news articles about why it is interesting from a utility and technology standpoint.  And I will continue to do so because I like that BTC can be transmitted without government approval.  I think that is awesome.

I don't 1-star & I don't give negative rep unless someone does it to me.  I wasn't telling people to put life-savings into it.  Unfounded.

I personally believe in the long-term potential.  I keep collecting just like I collect silver and gold.  Of course buying at all time highs has risk with it...nobody would admit otherwise.  If you need your money right away, why are you putting it into something else to begin with?

When people post funny images, they are just screwing around.  Chill out.

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## FSP-Rebel

> All I see is buy, buy, buy. The market is ripe, BTC is going to the moon. I've seen numbers as high as $10,000 per BTC. It's bull$#@!. Many people probably lost their asses listening to your advice. (whether you told them to invest their life savings or not, the tempation and hype was there- to the moon, I think was a common consensus) My point in posting here is not to discourage those who wish to look into and invest BTC. It is to add a shred of sanity. BTC isn't replacing everything, it's not anonymous, even ZeroBIT isn't going to be anonymous, (back doors will surely be in place) and it will come to an end. Newbitech had some very good advice on how you should be playing this. Your (and many others) advice of "HOLD" (as if it is sure fire to go back to the levels it was at) is not good advice in and of itself. (*Some*) People will get rich from BTC, sure as hell they will switch to another means of wealth storage. (probably dollars or euros) You may make some money.. even a good return on your investment, but to continually pump this up is uncalled for. In 'Sound Money' of all places. SMDH.



Since this is a so-called den of Ron Paul supporters and liberty lovers I would expect the level of caveat emptor to be far higher than the general public and, as such, the expectation of people doing their own homework on whatever issue would be the rule of thumb. People here are making claims on all sides of this issue and viewers can do their own due diligence before attempting to embrace the BTC. None of the bulls here, to my knowledge, have tried to hide or dismiss the volatility especially in this infancy stage. Quite frankly, I'd say that many of said personalities have been quite transparent in regards to this it's just that certain sentiments see the light of day when detractors are so militant. It's kinda like the divisiveness that starts when the Ron faithful attack Rand and thus the defenders want to have their day in court so to speak.

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## itshappening

So tell me what is the point of bitcoin? No one is going to work with it for anything but SMALL transactions. 

Mike Adams is right when he says no big retailers will use it to accept orders etc. so yeah, it's great if you want to order drugs through the mail from drug dealers off the Silk Road but I kind of don't. 

So what's the point of it ??? 

There is none! 

Bitcoin is dead. It's limited to small drug transactions and other novelty stuff.  Maybe offshore casino's might work with it if there's no other way of bleeding their customers dry. 

No one is going to use it for anything substantial and be subject to the market madness and the ups and downs. No one is going to hold significant amounts of $ in bitcoin and hop over the border or travel around because they could be worth HALF or LESS by the time you convert them in back into cash.  And this is all before the Feds and Chucky Schumer starts targeting it.  

Bitcoin is dead, dead, dead.  There is no point to it.  It's all hype and nothing more.

What is your case for Bitcoin? Please state it because honestly it's not going to change the world or anything. It's finished. You're just in denial.

No more having to listen to Max Kasier or others round here hype it to $#@! because it's over thank God!

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## tttppp

> You have been the only one I've seen to even remotely admit the risks. Albeit I haven't been following every single thread on it. (there are like five new ones daily) I believe you mentioned that you will not be staying with BTC forever? I vaguely recall your postings as the only ones of BTC promoters who are grounded in reality.
> 
> All I see is buy, buy, buy. The market is ripe, BTC is going to the moon. I've seen numbers as high as $10,000 per BTC. It's bull$#@!. Many people probably lost their asses listening to your advice. (whether you told them to invest their life savings or not, the tempation and hype was there- to the moon, I think was a common consensus) My point in posting here is not to discourage those who wish to look into and invest BTC. It is to add a shred of sanity. BTC isn't replacing everything, it's not anonymous, even ZeroBIT isn't going to be anonymous, (back doors will surely be in place) and it will come to an end. Newbitech had some very good advice on how you should be playing this. Your (and many others) advice of "HOLD" (as if it is sure fire to go back to the levels it was at) is not good advice in and of itself. (*Some*) People will get rich from BTC, sure as hell they will switch to another means of wealth storage. (probably dollars or euros) You may make some money.. even a good return on your investment, but to continually pump this up is uncalled for. In 'Sound Money' of all places. SMDH.


That going to the moon stuff is something people say everytimee there is a bubble. But that doesn't mean electronic currency is worthless and going to zero. It can still correct itself and become a sound long term investment. We have seen this time and time with bubbles.

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## itshappening

Time to pop the champagne corks and celebrate the end of Bitcoin. 

I might order a bitcoin later to purchase a gram of coke from the Silk road to go with the champagne. 

Because that's all it's good for .

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## muh_roads

> So tell me what is the point of bitcoin? No one is going to work with it for anything but SMALL transactions. 
> 
> Mike Adams is right when he says no big retailers will use it to accept money etc etc. so yeah, it's great if you want to order drugs through the mail from drug dealers off the Silk Road but I kind of don't. 
> 
> So what's the point of it ??? 
> 
> There is none! 
> 
> Bitcoin is dead. It's limited to small drug transactions and other novelty stuff.  Maybe offshore casino's might work with it if there's no other way of bleeding their customers dry. No one is going to use it for anything substantial and be subject to the market madness and the ups and downs. No one is going to hold significant amounts of $ in bitcoin and hop over the border or travel around because they could be worth HALF or LESS by the time you cash them in back into cash.  And this is all before the Feds and Chuck Schumer starts targetting it.  
> ...


Well of course large retailers will be the last to embrace it because they are part of the system that is against you for their own personal free money grants and other special privileged tax write-off goodies that they lobby for.  The revolution will continue to expand within small business like it already has.  BitPay had a record month in March helping out small business.

You speak with such a lack of knowledge.  Like the typical 'Foam Finger USA #1' spoiled westerner who doesn't understand how tough it is to wire transfer money out of an oppressive country.  Protectionist countries like China only want your company working with other Chinese vendors.  BTC makes it possible for them to work with anyone they want.

If you truly care to inquire about the benefits instead of immaturely spouting "dead, dead, dead" like a little 12-year old with his fingers in his ears, join a group like the New Hampshire Free Staters BTC group on facebook.

Dead you keep spouting.  Just 2 weeks ago the current value was at an all-time high...lol  "ZOMG DEAD!"  Did you forget what you ate for lunch?

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## itshappening

What is the point of bitcoin? Convince me to use it to purchase anything more than the gram of coke from the Silk Road to go with my champagne.

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## FSP-Rebel

> What is the point of bitcoin? Convince me to use it to purchase anything more than the gram of coke from the Silk Road to go with my champagne.


New to Bitcoin? Start here

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## itshappening

I'm not new to it.  I was using it 2 years ago. 

I still dont know the point of it.

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## muh_roads

> I'm not new to it.  I was using it 2 years ago. 
> 
> I still dont know the point of it.


I know...reading is tough.  e-commerce.  Who needs it?  lol

I used to think you were a really good poster.

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## itshappening

When I used it 2 years ago I was in and out as fast I could be. 

And good job as well because a week later it went from $35 to like $4 and then the wallet service I was using to store my bitcoins (mybitcoin) was hacked and emptied out. Lots of users had their bitcoins stolen.  I was out just in time.

That's my experience with bitcoin: a lucky escape!

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## muh_roads

> When I used it 2 years ago I was in and out as fast I could be. 
> 
> And good job as well because a week later it went from $35 to like $4 and then the wallet service I was using to store my bitcoins (mybitcoin) was hacked and emptied out. Lots of users had their bitcoins stolen.  I was out just in time.
> 
> That's my experience with bitcoin: a lucky escape!


Now it all makes sense...lol.  You bought near the previous peak and now you are bitter.  Welcome to trading.  derp.

Whenever I get robbed like I was 3 years ago, I always place blame on the manufacturers of the products I own instead of blaming myself for not having better security.  

$#@! you Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Panasonic, Onkyo and Toshiba.  Such $#@!s you all are.

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## itshappening

I didnt buy near the peak.  I paid 8 bucks. Held for about 3-4 weeks I think and sold at 30 bucks in July 2011. 

Then it crashed like a stone.  Shortly after Mybitcoin was hacked and the hacker was trying to cash out I guess.

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## itshappening

GOX was hacked as well around the same time as mybitcoin. I remember them having a webpage and asking users to contact them and open new accounts so they could re-sign as many bitcoins as they could to their rightful owners. 

Their encryption was cracked or something and passwords leaked.

They were swamped with requests and there were lots of complaints but I think they did a good job at fixing the mess.

Do some research and you'll see my recollection is correct and my story will hold up.  

This was all in the summer of 2011. I remember it like it was yesterday.

It's totally unstable and ultimately pointless.

GOX was making a lot of money.  Tens of thousands a day.  They're probably making hundreds of thousands a day now.

They're the only people who make money out of it apart from the drug dealers, big miners, some dealers who charge up to 10% for various services (cash in the mail used to be a popular one) and early adopters sitting on paper fortunes.  

The rest are just feeding the beast and should be careful.

There was also a huge open outcry IRC channel with people taking orders and offering their paypal accounts to buy or sell BTC.  They charged a fee. It was a huge cottage industry even back then in 2011. I imagine it's bigger now. Paypal were shutting down any accounts associated with BTC.

So as you can see I'm not a novice and know enough about bitcoin and I think it's just pointless for anything other than small transactions.

It's not going to change the world like the hypers would have you think.

It's too unstable and vulnerable.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Are you people _purposely_ trying to discredit yourself?
> 
> Bitcoin is holding solid at around $80/coin which is still 4 times the value of a few weeks ago. Bitcoin is "dead"?? You're the one who needs your head examined.


Sounds like the usual naysayers talking trash about a new technology.  I think it will rise again.  There certainly are limits to its abilities once the feds get involved, but it's still alive.

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## PaulConventionWV

> As for Iran, the sanctions have forced them to sell their oil in GOLD. Not Bitcoins. The Iranian state is not going to use bitcoin. Stop dreaming. They want the gold.
> 
> No significant transaction will ever be done in bitcoin.  You cannot tolerate such fluctuations.  It's a novelty for small transactions and nothing more.
> 
> Bitcoin is dead, dead, dead! 
> 
> And thank God I dont have to hear Max Keiser hyping the crap out of it any more.


You never had to hear Max Keiser in the first place.  I respect Max Keiser and I don't think I ever hear him.  You must really be going out of your way to get annoyed.  

Also, "such fluctuations" can smoothe out over time.  It doesn't always have to fluctuate wildly.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Doesn't mean it can't happen... Simple question is would you - or anyone - put significant $ into bitcoin ? I wouldn't and no one else would after a crash from $260 to $80 ??? Are you for real? This thing is dead. Get over it.  Move on.


It can stabilize in the future.  I'm not saying it will, but it certainly can.  It could crash, but until it does, saying it could go to zero is mindless speculation.  Let's be cool about this.  I don't understand why people feel the need to get everyone to stop talking about bitcoin.  It's a very interesting subject.  If you don't want to talk about it, don't come on these threads.

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## itshappening

I'm not a naysayer i've used, studied, researched and participated in bitcoin for 2 years. 

So i know a thing or 2 and let me tell you it's too unstable and vulnerable.  

I've now witnessed 2 massive crashes in 2 years and numerous hacks of wallet services and exchanges and I would never use it again. 

So there.



This is me walking away from the wreckage that is Bitcoin.

Dont say I didn't warn you. 

I'm now officially skeptical and will be counter-balancing any hypers.

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## jj-

> No significant transaction will ever be done in bitcoin.  You cannot tolerate such fluctuations.  It's a novelty for small transactions and nothing more.


Who defines what is a significant transaction? Why isn't transaction of drugs significant? At least until the war on drugs is repealed, bitcoin will keep thriving. Taking a one day or a one week look at the currency doesn't tell the whole story.

Geez, I'm shocked you can be so wrong on this.

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## itshappening

> Who defines what is a significant transaction? Why isn't transaction of drugs significant? At least until the war on drugs is repealed, bitcoin will keep thriving. Taking a one day or a one week look at the currency doesn't tell the whole story.
> 
> Geez, I'm shocked you can be so wrong on this.


Buying a gram of coke for 80 bucks is fine.  Using it for transactions in the thousands is never going to happen. No one can trust it and keep their money locked up for days on end considering the wild swings.  It wouldnt make any sense unless it was for drugs or maybe an offshore casino if they couldn't find another way to fleece customers due to financial restrictions.

The risk:reward ratio for keeping SIGNIFICANT money locked up for days (I mean thousands) is not worth it unless you're selling an illegal product or running a banned service and even then there are challenges in getting in/out with such large amounts of money.  

I'm sure it's being done some how by the crew on Silk Road because they have no other option but no other business will use it for large >$1000 transactions

I am absolutely right about this. I'm pretty adamant now after the recent crash that it's too vulnerable and too unstable to be of any significant use.

The folks on Silk Road are already making use of its *best* use and have been doing so for 3 years and that's as far as it goes. It won't go any further than being used for those sorts of transactions.  This is 100% guaranteed!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Geez, I'm shocked you can be so wrong on this.


He's just going full hysterics and is trying to get extra mileage out of that gif that's already been posted at least 3 times today. It was kinda funny the first time back in Rand's subforum but gifs, pics and memes are only cool if they're posted once in a 6 month time frame.

----------


## jj-

> buying a gram of coke for 80 bucks is fine.


Right. And while that continues to be true, i.e., for the foreseeable future, its value isn't going to zero.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I'm absolutely rabid and hysterical now after the recent correction that I've gone into full bore witch hunt inquisition mode and will actively work to sabotage viewers understanding of BTC by trolling ad infinitum.


fify

----------


## DGambler

> When I used it 2 years ago I was in and out as fast I could be. 
> 
> And good job as well because a week later it went from $35 to like $4 and then the wallet service I was using to store my bitcoins (mybitcoin) was hacked and emptied out. Lots of users had their bitcoins stolen.  I was out just in time.
> 
> That's my experience with bitcoin: a lucky escape!


Why were you using an online wallet to store all your BTC?  I wouldn't leave my physical wallet with my life savings laying on a park bench.

----------


## itshappening

> Right. And while that continues to be true, i.e., for the foreseeable future, its value isn't going to zero.


It might not go to zero but it could go to $2, $5 or whatever.  That's probably more its actual fair value of a BTC and what I paid when I used it in 2011. Everything else is hype built into the price. The explosion in 2011 was down to the Silk road being featured in Gawker. I happened to have BTC at the time and rode it up to 30$ and got out as quick as could then GOX and Mybitcoin were HACKED and it crashed to 2 bucks. This is my experience and i'm just relaying it to you.  Hype from the likes of Max Kaiser and more mainstream press like the Gawker article did for it 2 years ago is behind the recent massive moves too and it will correct.

 I think it's more likely to crash back down to 5$ than skyrocket.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> GOX was hacked as well around the same time as mybitcoin. I remember them having a webpage and asking users to contact them and open new accounts so they could re-sign as many bitcoins as they could to their rightful owners. 
> 
> Their encryption was cracked or something and passwords leaked.
> 
> They were swamped with requests and there were lots of complaints but I think they did a good job at fixing the mess.
> 
> Do some research and you'll see my recollection is correct and my story will hold up.  
> 
> This was all in the summer of 2011. I remember it like it was yesterday.
> ...


Great post itshappening. +rep.

I hope the best for anyone here dealing with them. My earlier posts seems kind of harsh upon rereading. I want whoever is thinking about going in to know there are many risks and nothing is ever a sure thing. Amy got out near the top and I am happy for her. People may think you are 'hating' or I am 'hating' but honestly I'm trying to counter out that feeling that these are going to $10,000 or however high. Newbitech has some very good posts on how to trade BTC and make a few bucks. Nothing to retire on, but a good return, simply.

At the end of the day, after reading some of your posts, paladin, I apologize for calling you a snake. That was little over the top. Best of luck with your investment. Even the wording of 'ZeroCoin' seemed troublesome to me though. I truly think there will be back doors. Hollywood had a good post in that thread as well. Take heed is all I ask. I like a lot about BTC, but ultimately I do not know who is manipulating it and I cannot trust it. There are going to be people who get rich off of it. (the early investors) Those who come in late will be holding the bag. That is jmho.

----------


## jj-

> It might not go to zero but it could go to $2, $5 or whatever.


That's enough to keep it alive.

----------


## Petar

> It might not go to zero but it could go to $2, $5 or whatever.  That's probably more its actual fair value of a BTC and what I paid when I used it in 2011. Everything else is hype built into the price. The explosion in 2011 was down to the Silk road being featured in Gawker. I happened to have BTC at the time and rode it up to 30$ and got out as quick as could then GOX and Mybitcoin were HACKED and it crashed to 2 bucks. This is my experience and i'm just relaying it to you.  Hype is behind the recent massive moves too and it will correct.
> 
>  I think it's more likely to crash back down to 5$ than skyrocket.


"Fair" is what it trades for on the open market (around $97 as of now).

If many more people start holding and using bitcoins, then what makes you think that it is unlikely that its open market price could go a lot higher?

----------


## itshappening

> Why were you using an online wallet to store all your BTC?  I wouldn't leave my physical wallet with my life savings laying on a park bench.


Because I was worried my computer would crash and i'd lose the BTC.  I didn't bother with a USB stick as it wasn't that significant (only 20BTC) and only planned on using it for a few weeks! 

I figured after extensive research using a wallet was the best idea and the easiest way to move them around. You just copied and pasted the address to send and receive too in the web browser rather than fiddling around with an application  I also had an account on GOX and that's how I sent/received to my wallet.  The Mybitcoin wallet was hacked and lots of people lost their bitcoins. GOX also got hacked and the thing crashed to 2$. There was lots of complaints but GOX fixed it.  They're located in Japan I think and have a good team. they were making tens of thousands a day back then so could afford a lot of programmers!

----------


## itshappening

People who actually use BTC for a transaction are not putting their life savings in it.  for me the transaction was a few hundred bucks. Big deal.

Wallet was more useful and quicker than fiddling around with an application.  That's why wallets are popular (or were back then), you could pretty much send/receive instantly and you dont have to worry about losing them if your computer crashes, you can go to an internet cafe or any other computer and log in and use them!

Bank-> MT GOX -> Mybitcoin -> MT Gox -> Bank account or -> to service like 'cash in the mail' and receive cash or whatever you want to do.  Do it all from a browser on any computer rather than mess with an application on just one computer. 

The best way and most secure way though would be a USB stick  but it's not worth going to the hassle for a few hundred bucks. if i was a merchant handling thousands or wanted to store thousands i'd do it on a USB stick,.  Guess what though? I don't.

----------


## itshappening

> "Fair" is what it trades for on the open market (around $97 as of now).
> 
> If many more people start holding and using bitcoins, then what makes you think that it is unlikely that its open market price could go a lot higher?


I agree with you but a lot of it is hype. SOONER OR LATER early adopters or big boys from Silk Road will convert their BTC to actual $ and start dumping them on the market and it will collapse again. This happens all the time. That's what the recent crash was likely about.  These guys probably couldn't believe it hit $250 and started to unload as fast as they could.  Good times.

Then you have the hackers who are breaking the wallet services and stealing BTC.  They also dump huge amounts on the market and collapse it as they try and make off with the loot. That's what happened in 2011.  

It will happen again and again and again.  Don't use it! Or if you do keep it small like I did.  

That's my honest, thoughtful advice.

----------


## dusman

> Why were you using an online wallet to store all your BTC?  I wouldn't leave my physical wallet with my life savings laying on a park bench.


No kidding I was actually thinking the same thing. 

Sorry itshappening, but you are being quite dramatic. Bitcoin is in its infancy and by all technicality it's already "gone to the moon" for some. Your problem really boils down to your own personal perception.. trying to pass your subjective experience as something establishing objectivity.. which it is not.  

I have no reason to quibble with you because I've yet to see you act obnoxious until now. It sounds like you set yourself up for failure with bad expectations and got burned by that. Happens all the time. 

Nonetheless, I myself still think right now Gold and Silver is the smart buy, but I am setting aside a small fraction of my investment capital to put into Bitcoin... not because I think its stable or some miracle technology. It is a flawed concept (just as all forms of currency are), that has a ton of upside once it, and if, it gets past its infancy. Not much different than investing venture capital in a start up, honestly. 

At this point, investing in Bitcoin might be wiser than holding ANY FRNs. At least Bitcoin has the potential of some upside, whereas FRNs IS dead and dying. 

Step out of your little "poor me" bubble for a second and recognize Bitcoin for what it is - a revolutionary concept of money that could very well lead to the dismantling of our world's economic oligarchy. It might not be in 10 years or 50 years... nor might it be Bitcoin in this regard, but something inspired by it. So, please keep an open mind and realize we are dealing with a disruptive technology above all and with that comes many other innovations that will be far superior to Bitcoin in its present form.

----------


## dusman

> People who actually use BTC for a transaction are not putting their life savings in it.  for me the transaction was a few hundred bucks. Big deal.
> 
> Wallet was more useful and quicker than fiddling around with an application.  That's why wallets are popular (or were back then), you could pretty much send/receive instantly and you dont have to worry about losing them if your computer crashes, you can go to an internet cafe or any other computer and log in and use them!
> 
> Bank-> MT GOX -> Mybitcoin -> MT Gox -> Bank account or -> to service like 'cash in the mail' and receive cash or whatever you want to do.  Do it all from a browser on any computer rather than mess with an application on just one computer. 
> 
> The best way and most secure way though would be a USB stick  but it's not worth going to the hassle for a few hundred bucks. if i was a merchant handling thousands or wanted to store thousands i'd do it on a USB stick,.  Guess what though? I don't.


What hassle? It's trivial to establish Bitcoin on USB stick.

----------


## itshappening

To understand bitcoin you have to understand it's primary use and its primary use is *SILK ROAD*.  And has been for 3 years. They're using it for its most perfect use. It's of no use to a real, actual business or legal merchant because of the wild swings and unpredictability. Only a drug dealer would put up with it and tolerate the instability because they have no other options available to them and its convenient even with it swinging all over the place.  This won't change any time soon.

If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC.  There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it.  In the real world they just operate in cash.

----------


## Petar

> I agree with you but a lot of it is hype. SOONER OR LATER early adopters or big boys from Silk Road will convert their BTC to actual $ and it will collapse again. This happens all the time.


Ok, so when early adopters cash out and cause the market to crash, then what makes you think that an eventual rebound is impossible? 

And as the early adopters get cycled out of the market, along with wider adoption, doesn't that also suggest eventual price stability?

----------


## jj-

> To understand bitcoin you have to understand it's primary use and its primary use is *SILK ROAD*.  And has been for 3 years. They're using it for its most perfect use. It's of no use to a real, actual business or legal merchant because of the wild swings and unpredictability. Only a drug dealer would put up with it and tolerate the instability because they have no other options available to them and its convenient even with it swinging all over the place.  This won't change any time soon.


Read some Mises, train your econ-thinking neurons, and then come back to talk about it. You're clueless when it comes to economics, absolutely clueless, especially on money.

----------


## itshappening

Clueless How ?

If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.

Bitcoins primary use is silk road and that's it.  Has been for 3 years. 

This is fact. Don't like it? Oh well.

----------


## jj-

> Clueless How ?
> 
> If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.
> 
> Bitcoins primary use is silk road and that's it.  Has been for 3 years. 
> 
> This is fact. Don't like it? Oh well.


Because the facts you already recognized in this post imply that it will be used to more things than buying from Silk Road, but you can't make the connections.

----------


## itshappening

> Because the facts you already recognized in this post imply that it will be used to more things than buying from Silk Road, but you can't make the connections.


it CAN be but whats the point? if your a legit business you have a bank account, you have a merchant account and you already happily take custom. 

Why on earth would you need BTC? why would you put up with the swinging and crazy market? why would you risk thousands tied up for days and weeks at a time after 2 massive crashes in 2 years which on both occasions reduced them to a third of their value? want two thirds of your stash to vanish? Use BTC!

And what has this got to do with Mises? It is just logic. Think about it.

----------


## itshappening

> Ok, so when early adopters cash out and cause the market to crash, then what makes you think that an eventual rebound is impossible? 
> 
> And as the early adopters get cycled out of the market, along with wider adoption, doesn't that also suggest eventual price stability?


There's about 20 people who have thousands and thousands of bitcoins from 2009 when they were 2 cents.  When it goes up they dump.  Silk road merchants also dump. Hackers and thieves dump.  Miners dump. This is why it's unstable. There's also the possibility of central banks involved to manipulate it. I dont doubt that but I think it's more likely these 20 people dumping and the silk road merchants as they're the only people who have a lot of money tied up all the time and they look for opportunites to exit the market.  All the hype from Max Kaiser and co is most welcome to them. and that's why they saw it hit 250 and unloaded like crazy.  In 2011 it was the hackers trying to make off with the loot from mybitcoin and MT Gox accounts.  

I don't see how you can suggest its a good investment when its subject to all this instability. Who knows how it will go over time when the insiderrs have dumped all their bitcoins but it's going to keep crashing , going up, crash, go up , etc etc. what's the point? I dont want any part of it.  Only maybe if i wanted a gram of coke, then i'd buy one bitcoin, risk 80 bucks and head on over to the SILK ROAD but i dont want any coke.

----------


## dusman

> Clueless How ?
> 
> If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.
> 
> Bitcoins primary use is silk road and that's it.  Has been for 3 years. 
> 
> This is fact. Don't like it? Oh well.


Well in ways you answered your own question. From the outside, I would call it clueless too. Mainly because you refuse to associate any other value to Bitcoin, other than drug trafficking. Common man, that is either entirely naive or pure bitterness. So the question is.. did you just reach the conclusion recently that Bitcoin's only value is for buying drugs or was that your commonly held belief from the start? If the former... I believe you are intelligent enough (after all you are here, so I assume you are of more intellect than most by default) to know better and are letting your bitterness get the best of you. If the latter, then you could be... well a drug dealer, lol. 

My point is you initially got into Bitcoin for reasons you haven't revealed yet. Since I highly doubt it was for buying drugs, I have to ask what did you see then in Bitcoin that you refuse to see now? Are your new conclusions valid and based on some objective analysis of the technology or are you simply letting your experience cloud your judgment? Are those reasons you bought Bitcoin in the first place somehow invalid now?

I just don't understand, I suppose. To me the only conclusion is you might have simply gotten into Bitcoin for naive reasons and are opposing it for similar naive reasons. Not to talk $#@! to you or anything of the sort, but I'd shut up right now if you directed your passion against the Dollar instead.. because after all you would be correct to say that it is DEAD and no one here would be calling you clueless. 

Cheers.

----------


## fj45lvr

I can't figure out for the life of me why people would ever trust a computer based "currency"...LOL    some people are gluttons for punishment, DARWIN factor at work I guess

----------


## jj-

> And what has this got to do with Mises? It is just logic. Think about it.


Already done it. That's why I'm not as clueless as you.

----------


## itshappening

> Well in ways you answered your own question. From the outside, I would call it clueless too. Mainly because you refuse to associate any other value to Bitcoin, other than drug trafficking. Common man, that is either entirely naive or pure bitterness. So the question is.. did you just reach the conclusion recently that Bitcoin's only value is for buying drugs or was that your commonly held belief from the start? If the former... I believe you are intelligent enough (after all you are here, so I assume you are of more intellect than most by default) to know better and are letting your bitterness get the best of you. If the latter, then you could be... well a drug dealer, lol. 
> 
> My point is you initially got into Bitcoin for reasons you haven't revealed yet. Since I highly doubt it was for buying drugs, I have to ask what did you see then in Bitcoin that you refuse to see now? Are your new conclusions valid and based on some objective analysis of the technology or are you simply letting your experience cloud your judgment? Are those reasons you bought Bitcoin in the first place somehow invalid now?
> 
> I just don't understand, I suppose. To me the only conclusion is you might have simply gotten into Bitcoin for naive reasons and are opposing it for similar naive reasons. Not to talk $#@! to you or anything of the sort, but I'd shut up right now if you directed your passion against the Dollar instead.. because after all you would be correct to say that it is DEAD and no one here would be calling you clueless. 
> 
> Cheers.


Am I wrong in saying its primary use is SILK ROAD and has been for 3 years? 

What else is it used for ??? 

You typed a lot of words but didn't say much.  

Yeah I'm clueless.  I've only used it for 2 years and know more about it than most on here.

As for my entry into bitcoin at 6-8$ I was just intrigued by it and wanted to check it out in 2011.  It just so happened Gawker published the silk road article and it went up to 30 bucks. I learned about Silk road then and that told me the story of who uses bitcoin and how they use it.  The forum there is (was) fascinating and full of interesting information.  Things haven't changed since 2011 and i dont think it will ever change.  Silk roaders are using it for its best purpose and Mr. Silk Road is one of the guys making a lot of money in the BTC world (along with MT Gox) he's taking a cut of every transaction.

----------


## jj-

> Yeah I'm clueless.  I've only used it for 2 years and know more about it than most on here.


Your knowledge about facts is good. The problem is your low skill in economic reasoning.

----------


## muh_roads

> Am I wrong in saying its primary use is SILK ROAD and has been for 3 years? 
> 
> What else is it used for ??? 
> 
> You typed a lot of words but didn't say much.  
> 
> Yeah I'm clueless.  I've only used it for 2 years and know more about it than most on here.


If you knew more than most you wouldn't have left your private keys online and got hacked...lol

And I told you about its big use...businesses working with others outside of their oppressive borders.

If you want a personal story out of me besides SR...I have paid for wordpress & MEGA online encrypted cloud storage with BTC.

----------


## itshappening

> If you knew more than most you wouldn't have left your private keys online and got hacked...lol
> 
> And I told you about its big use...businesses working with others outside of their oppressive borders.
> 
> If you want a personal story out of me besides SR...I have paid for wordpress & MEGA online encrypted cloud storage with BTC.


And that;s fine. Keep it small if you're using bitcoin in transactions. This is the best use of it: in/out small and quick transaction.

Wordpress and MEGA are not taking as much as silk road does and never have. Yes it has other uses but no real legit business needs to do a lot of business in bitcoin and WONT do a lot of business in bitcoin!  Not with these wild swings.If MEGA is doing a lot in bitcoin that's just a further problem for the bitcoin market because Kim is going to be dumping regularly to cash them in.

Also you fail to understand the next biggest problem apart from the instability and that's the crackdown from the Feds.  

This is why i said its 'unstable and vulnerable'.  vulnerable to hackers and to the Feds cracking down on it. Ergo don't keep money tied up in bitcoins. 

For what its worth I was long out of mybitcoin when they got hacked so didn't lose anything.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thank you. And are you willing to tell people that it may not be wise to invest their life savings into this virtual pyramid? Of course not. Buy, buy, buy. You'll continue to make threads about how super-awesome and fail proof this is, and about how low the risks are, and about how much money there is to be made in this ripe market. You'll continue to 1 star rate threads that disagree with your narrative and continue to promote something you are very obviously personally vested in. Your 'buywhatchulike' quips and usual responses only attempt to reaffirm your constant barragement of bull$#@! and that my position is illogical and BTC will make everyone rich. (to the moon, I think you put it) It would be comical if so many good people weren't getting caught up in this bull$#@!. Greed will hardly win. Those 'HOLDing' or claiming it to be 'unstoppable' will very much lose the majority of their investment and be stuck with nothing but a $#@!coin virtual wallet. You are a snake. Nothing more. I won't invest in your virtual BTCs. Thanks for the permission. I'd much appreciate if you would come back towards reality when attempting your pitch to get others involved. That is all.


Why do you call it a pyramind?  Do you need lessons on the definition of a pyramid scheme, or are you deliberately being obtuse?

----------


## itshappening

> Already done it. That's why I'm not as clueless as you.


I've never denied it has a use but it's not going to take over the world or change it.  Buying drugs online is hardly revolutionary is it? or paying fat boy for MEGA and it's also subject to the whims of the US government.  The advice is don't have money tied up in it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So tell me what is the point of bitcoin? No one is going to work with it for anything but SMALL transactions. 
> 
> Mike Adams is right when he says no big retailers will use it to accept orders etc. so yeah, it's great if you want to order drugs through the mail from drug dealers off the Silk Road but I kind of don't. 
> 
> So what's the point of it ??? 
> 
> There is none! 
> 
> Bitcoin is dead. It's limited to small drug transactions and other novelty stuff.  Maybe offshore casino's might work with it if there's no other way of bleeding their customers dry. 
> ...


Why the hate?  If you don't want to talk about it, don't talk about it!  Why do you have to be all in our faces about it?  Mind your own $#@!ing business and stop being a jerk.

----------


## Petar

> There's about 20 people who have thousands and thousands of bitcoins from 2009 when they were 2 cents.  When it goes up they dump.  Silk road merchants also dump. Hackers and thieves dump.  Miners dump. This is why it's unstable. There's also the possibility of central banks involved to manipulate it. I dont doubt that but I think it's more likely these 20 people dumping and the silk road merchants as they're the only people who have a lot of money tied up all the time and they look for opportunites to exit the market.  All the hype from Max Kaiser and co is most welcome to them. and that's why they saw it hit 250 and unloaded like crazy.  In 2011 it was the hackers trying to make off with the loot from mybitcoin and MT Gox accounts.  
> 
> I don't see how you can suggest its a good investment when its subject to all this instability. Who knows how it will go over time when the insiderrs have dumped all their bitcoins but it's going to keep crashing , going up, crash, go up , etc etc. what's the point? I dont want any part of it.  Only maybe if i wanted a gram of coke, then i'd buy one bitcoin, risk 80 bucks and head on over to the SILK ROAD but i dont want any coke.


Yet you have already made up your mind and decided that it is impossible that stability can be achieved in the future. 

Premature to say the least.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Time to pop the champagne corks and celebrate the end of Bitcoin. 
> 
> I might order a bitcoin later to purchase a gram of coke from the Silk road to go with the champagne. 
> 
> Because that's all it's good for .


Seriously, dude.  I just don't get it.  You must have a disease or something to be this happy over the demise of something that affects you in absolutely no way.  You are $#@!ing sick and it needs to stop because you are being a total jackass.  I hope you realize that.

----------


## jj-

> I've never denied it has a use but it's not going to take over the world or change it.  Buying drugs online is hardly revolutionary is it? or paying fat boy for MEGA and it's also subject to the whims of the US government.  The advice is don't have money tied up in it.


So you're no longer saying "bitcoin is dead". Or are you simply going to keep saying that, but now with a bunch of qualifications you didn't mention before?

----------


## itshappening

I don't believe it can achieve stability and the further ups and downs are just going to make people more cautious about tying money up in it. I bet the SILK ROAD merchants are wondering what the hell is going on... their BTC stacks were worth thousands more just a few days ago now they're not.  This will make them want to be in/out the market quicker with their stacks and convert them to usable currency.  This will breed further instability.  It will never be stable in my view.

----------


## itshappening

> So you're no longer saying "bitcoin is dead". Or are you simply going to keep saying that, but now with a bunch of qualifications you didn't mention before?


Unless you want to buy drugs or feed fat boy it's pretty much dead

----------


## itshappening

> Seriously, dude.  I just don't get it.  You must have a disease or something to be this happy over the demise of something that affects you in absolutely no way.  You are $#@!ing sick and it needs to stop because you are being a total jackass.  I hope you realize that.


I'm sick of the hype and 'its going to take over the world'.  No, it's not.  Silk Road is still its primary use and yeah mega take it too.. big deal.  Things haven't changed since I last used it in 2011 but just a lot of hype driving the price higher and higher.  It'll crash again soon.  Don't keep money tied up in it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not a naysayer i've used, studied, researched and participated in bitcoin for 2 years. 
> 
> So i know a thing or 2 and let me tell you it's too unstable and vulnerable.  
> 
> I've now witnessed 2 massive crashes in 2 years and numerous hacks of wallet services and exchanges and I would never use it again. 
> 
> So there.
> 
> 
> ...


You're the hater here.  The fact that you can't see that just confirms it.  We're just minding our own business and you're trashing it for no reason.

----------


## jj-

> Unless you want to buy drugs or feed fat boy it's pretty much dead


If it's valuable to buy drugs, that means that it will keep rising in value and become more stable. Because by design, there is a point at which no new bitcoins will be created. But the trade of drugs will keep increasing, as the population grows, that bitcoins will keep increasing its value. This expectation will encourage people to save in it, and as more people use it, it will become more and more stable over time, which will encourage even more people to use it.

And I didn't even mention that it practically doesn't have transaction costs, one of its distinctive advantages.

----------


## green73

Mike Adams, the world class thinker who tells you the world is extremely overpopulated by humans.

----------


## itshappening

> If it's valuable to buy drugs, that means that it will keep rising in value and become more stable. Because by design, there is a point at which no new bitcoins will be created. But the trade of drugs will keep increasing, as the population grows, that bitcoins will keep increasing its value. This expectation will encourage people to save in it, and as more people use it, it will become more and more stable over time, which will encourage even more people to use it.
> 
> And I didn't even mention that it practically doesn't have transaction costs, one of its distinctive advantages.


FLAW: After 2 major crashes in 2 years no one is going to 'save' in it. get real. If people use BTC and use it for a significant (read DRUG) transaction then they're going to want to be in and out as quickly as possible. No big Silk Road merchant wants to sit around with tens of thousands of dollars tied up after sending out all his drugs only to watch the BTC collapse two thirds in value. It's happened twice in 2 years now and it's going to happen again. Now he doesn't want to hang around with his stack. He wants to convert it to usable currency as soon as possible as he's nervous about these crazy swings. This will make the crashes even more frequent as the merchants dump more often.

Another flaw: By the time all the BTC is mined and the early adopters have cashed out then yes, it should become more stable I think (I dont know for sure) but then you've got the Feds who are on to it and they will be cracking down on it and making it harder to cash out or use. Exchanges will be targeted and that will drive the price down.  If MT Gox got taken out and a few other exchanges where would BTC be then? probably in the toilet.

----------


## muh_roads

> And that;s fine. Keep it small if you're using bitcoin in transactions.


People will do whatever they want if their country is about ready to go "Cyprus" on them.  Nobody is saying to not be careful of the risks.




> Wordpress and MEGA are not taking as much as silk road does and never have. Yes it has other uses but no real legit business needs to do a lot of business in bitcoin and WONT do a lot of business in bitcoin!  Not with these wild swings.


BitPay has about 5,000 small businesses on board.

Venture Capitalists don't care about the Wild Swings.  A big push to start piggybacking on the Visa/MC infrastructure is about to begin...
http://techcrunch.com/2013/04/11/bitcoin/




> If MEGA is doing a lot in bitcoin that's just a further problem for the bitcoin market because Kim is going to be dumping regularly to cash them in.


It's a free market.  He can do what he wants.




> Also you fail to understand the next biggest problem apart from the instability and that's the crackdown from the Feds.  
> 
> This is why i said its 'unstable and vulnerable'.  vulnerable to hackers and to the Feds cracking down on it.


What the Feds try to do and what the power of a pen on paper can do remains to be seen.  With nearly 200 countries in the world, the US can't say much to other areas that don't want to ban.  The Feds could also bring back 1933 confiscation again and people can get their metals stolen from their house.  That doesn't mean one should not use metals.

At some point people need to stop being a pussy and just push forward.  Keep your eyes and ears on the trends.  That is the best an individual can do.

People losing their funds to hackers will eventually be solved by more and more consulting.  BTC isn't getting hacked, the front-end services are.  Only do business with trustworthy people.

FinCEN declared BTC as money.  If the Feds do start beating their chest...the competing currency argument will begin.  I welcome that challenge.  It is what "End the Fed" is all about.  Even if you don't like BTC you should be on our side with this.

Sometimes things like the gun fight currently is a good thing IMO.  It exposes the bullies and angers the people.  At the current spot price, BTC owns 0.001% of the total Forex market.  There isn't anything to be concerned about any time soon.  The Feds, honestly, have bigger fish to fry anyway.

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## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not a naysayer i've used, studied, researched and participated in bitcoin for 2 years. 
> 
> So i know a thing or 2 and let me tell you it's too unstable and vulnerable.  
> 
> I've now witnessed 2 massive crashes in 2 years and numerous hacks of wallet services and exchanges and I would never use it again. 
> 
> So there.
> 
> 
> ...


You're the hater here.  The fact that you can't see that just confirms it.  We're just minding our own business and you're trashing it for no reason.

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## jj-

> FLAW: *After 2 major crashes in 2 years no one is going to 'save' in it. get real*. If people use BTC and use it for a significant (read DRUG) transaction then they're going to want to be in and out as quickly as possible. No Silk Road merchant wants to sit around with thousands of dollars tied up after sending out all his drugs only to watch the BTC collapse two thirds in value. It's happened twice in 2 years now and it's going to happen again. 
> 
> Another flaw*: By the time all the BTC is mined and the early adopters have cashed out then yes, it should become more stable* I think (I dont know for sure) but then you've got the Feds who are on to it and they will be cracking down on it and making it harder to cash out or use. Exchanges will be targeted and that will drive the price down.  If MT Gox got taken out and a few other exchanges where would BTC be then? probably in the toilet.


So you just contradicted yourself, *the time all the BTC is mined and the early adopters have cashed out* is  actually *After 2 major crashes in 2 years 
*.

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## jj-

> Another flaw: By the time all the BTC is mined and the early adopters have cashed out then yes, it should become more stable I think (I dont know for sure) but* then you've got the Feds who are on to it and they will be cracking down on it* and making it harder to cash out or use. Exchanges will be targeted and that will drive the price down.  If MT Gox got taken out and a few other exchanges where would BTC be then? probably in the toilet.


What if Rand Paul is President at that moment? What if that moment occurs after the United States ceased to exist as is due to hyperinflation?

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## itshappening

> So you just contradicted yourself, *the time all the BTC is mined and the early adopters have cashed out* is  actually *After 2 major crashes in 2 years 
> *.


OK so lets imagine it in 5 years then when its all been mined and the early adopters have cashed out. Over those 5 years there's probably been another 6 major crashes. Do you really think people are going to have FAITH in it when it reaches that point? Then yes, i imagine its all distributed a lot more evenly and thus becomes more stable. Effectively it 'resets' but at what price? will it be $5 or $500? who knows. I'm not going to keep money in bitcoin for 5 years to find out.

----------


## jj-

> OK so lets imagine it in 5 years then when its all been mined and the early adopters have cashed out. Over those 5 years there's probably been another 6 major crashes. Do you really think people are going to have FAITH in it when it reaches that point? Then yes, i imagine its all distributed a lot more evenly and thus becomes more stable. Effectively it 'resets' but at what price? will it be $5 or $500? who knows. *I'm not going to keep money in bitcoin for 5 years to find out.*


OK, so bitcoin is dead now but might be alive and in better shape five years from now? Then it's more accurate to call bitcoin something like "hibernating", instead of "dead".

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## itshappening

> OK, so bitcoin is dead now but might be alive and in better shape five years from now? Then it's more accurate to call bitcoin something like "hibernating", instead of "dead".


Bitcoin will do its thing with or without my pronouncements. I don't believe after this week it can ever become significant in the global economy.  My advice has been just dont keep money tied up in it and if you happen to be a large silk road merchant then my advice is dont keep a big stack because 2/3rds of it could vanish over night which has happened twice over the last 2 years.  I'm sure they're already nervous enough and don't hang around in BTC for long.  I suspect the recent crash was down to a lot of insiders and silk road merchants who couldn't believe the price and had been waiting to exit for a while.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Why do you call it a pyramind?  Do you need lessons on the definition of a pyramid scheme, or are you deliberately being obtuse?


Lessons.

From what I can tell, early adopters have accumulated thousands of them. They tell everyone they know to get in on the action, it's going to the moon. Everywhere they go they are encouraging people to pick these up. (it's going to the moon, after all) People with the thousands of BTC cash them out at the height, (as they apparently did) while the average person who got caught up in the hype is stuck holding the bag. Things too good to be true, ARE.

That is besides all of the other problems. (DDOS attacks, the government going to proverbial war with BTC, (money laundering and terrorist financing allegations) etc.) It aint going to last. Those who claim otherwise are foolish, or are deliberately misleading people.

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## jj-

> Bitcoin will do its thing with or without my pronouncements. I don't believe after this week it can ever become significant in the global economy.  My advice has been just dont keep money tied up in it and if you happen to be a large silk road merchant then my advice is dont keep a big stack because 2/3rds of it could vanish over night which has happened twice over the last 2 years.  I'm sure they're already nervous enough and don't hang around in BTC for long.  I suspect the recent crash was down to a lot of insiders and silk road merchants who couldn't believe the price and had been waiting to exit for a while.


Probably your advice is what they have already been doing for a long time. It was clear after the first crash that a good strategy would be to change it back to dollars or whatever as soon as one sold something. So the people who have been doing this, which is the smart people anyway, lost very little money, only part of the value that they sold in the last 3 or so days.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Who knows how it will go over time when the insiderrs have dumped all their bitcoins but it's going to keep crashing , going up, crash, go up , etc etc. what's the point? I dont want any part of it.  Only maybe if i wanted a gram of coke, then i'd buy one bitcoin, risk 80 bucks and head on over to the SILK ROAD but i dont want any coke.


You realize it can stabilize right?  It doesn't always have to be this crazy.  That means your argument about it being volatile may not always apply.  There are also several circumstances which could cause it to be used for larger transactions, so it doesn't make sense to rule these things out already.  It's not impossible like you are implying.

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## muh_roads

> Lessons.
> 
> From what I can tell, early adopters have accumulated thousands of them. They tell everyone they know to get in on the action, it's going to the moon. Everywhere they go they are encouraging people to pick these up. (it's going to the moon, after all) People with the thousands of BTC cash them out at the height, (as they apparently did) while the average person who got caught up in the hype is stuck holding the bag. Things too good to be true, ARE.
> 
> That is besides all of the other problems. (DDOS attacks, the government going to proverbial war with BTC, (money laundering and terrorist financing allegations) etc.) It aint going to last. Those who claim otherwise are foolish, or are deliberately misleading people.


Nobody said a deregulated, decentralized currency would be easy.  People on this board have been clamoring for those terms since I first started posting here.  That time has arrived.

If you want to play, you need to learn how to protect yourself and put on your big boy pants.

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## PaulConventionWV

> I don't believe it can achieve stability and the further ups and downs are just going to make people more cautious about tying money up in it. I bet the SILK ROAD merchants are wondering what the hell is going on... their BTC stacks were worth thousands more just a few days ago now they're not.  This will make them want to be in/out the market quicker with their stacks and convert them to usable currency.  This will breed further instability.  It will never be stable in my view.


But you can't accurately predict that it won't achieve stability, so stop acting like it's a sure thing.  It's not.  I've never said bitcoin is definitely going to the moon.  I know the risks, but I don't need you acting like a jackass to convince me that there are risks.  But saying it's dead is just speculation, and talking about the instability is not something that can't be fixed.

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## PaulConventionWV

> I'm sick of the hype and 'its going to take over the world'.  No, it's not.  Silk Road is still its primary use and yeah mega take it too.. big deal.  Things haven't changed since I last used it in 2011 but just a lot of hype driving the price higher and higher.  It'll crash again soon.  Don't keep money tied up in it.


Nobody said you had to read these threads.  So just stop... now.  We don't need you here.

Kthxbye.

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## jj-

> But you can't accurately predict that it won't achieve stability, so stop acting like it's a sure thing.  It's not.  I've never said bitcoin is definitely going to the moon.  I know the risks, but I don't need you acting like a jackass to convince me that there are risks.  But saying it's dead is just speculation, and talking about the instability is not something that can't be fixed.


He is acting as if the bitcoin community, environment, and infrastructure will stay exactly as is, which of course is false as exchanges are dying and being born as we speak.

He is so absorbed in the present that he can't look at things across time.

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## itshappening

JJ, I believe a lot of the SIlk Roaders are hoarding bitcoin, sending out their wares and playing the market. This helps drive up the price along with the hype. 

When the Silk Road merchants decide to sell then they move the market and that explains the wild swings.  Kim is probably a significant participant as well and then you have the hackers and the 20 early adopters with tens of thousands of them dumping every now and then.  This all means a recipe for instability. This is why it's stupid to view it as an investment and why no actual legit business can use it and risk being blindsided when these participants decide to exit the market and crash it. 

Will it be more stable when its all mined and after another 10 crashes and when all the insiders have unloaded everything and are on their carribbean islands? who knows? and at what price? I dont really care. I just know it's not wise to have money tied up in it!

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## PaulConventionWV

> Lessons.
> 
> From what I can tell, early adopters have accumulated thousands of them. They tell everyone they know to get in on the action, it's going to the moon. Everywhere they go they are encouraging people to pick these up. (it's going to the moon, after all) People with the thousands of BTC cash them out at the height, (as they apparently did) while the average person who got caught up in the hype is stuck holding the bag. Things too good to be true, ARE.
> 
> That is besides all of the other problems. (DDOS attacks, the government going to proverbial war with BTC, (money laundering and terrorist financing allegations) etc.) It aint going to last. Those who claim otherwise are foolish, or are deliberately misleading people.


That's called the free market. 

A pyramid scheme is run by one person or group of people who know the thing is actually designed to lose money in the long term.

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## jj-

> This is why it's stupid to view it as an investment and why no actual legit business can use it and risk being blindsided when these participants decide to exit the market and crash it.


It's not stupid if they buy dollars or some currency as soon as the trade of the day is over. If they do that, all they lose is the value they exchanged for one or two days. They  don't lose the value they exchanged the remaining 363 days of the year.

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## PreDeadMan

lol i know this is random but how can i create a silk road account i have tor... i dunno registration is down or something? :\ I'm also waiting for my bank to show 2 deposits of a certain amount so i can type that amount to link my bank account and purchase some bitcoins to.. hopefully use on the silk road lol

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## itshappening

> It's not stupid if they buy dollars or some currency as soon as the trade of the day is over. If they do that, all they lose is the value they exchanged for one or two days. They  don't lose the value they exchanged the remaining 363 days of the year.


But how quickly can you move thousands in and out of bitcoin?  it's not an easy task and there's no way businesses are going to risk being blindsided by the silk road merchants when they decide to sell their hoards, or the hackers, or Kim, or the miners, or the insiders....  

Why would they ? It's only going to keep happening as they accumulate and then periodically unload. Maybe after 10 crashes and when there's a more even distribution it will settle down but it's never going to be significant in the global economy. It'll be significant maybe in the drug economy or in Kim's world but that's tiny in the grand scheme of things.

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## jj-

> Maybe after 10 crashes and when there's a more even distribution it will settle down but it's never going to be significant in the global economy. It'll be significant maybe in the drug economy or in Kim's world *but that's tiny in the grand scheme of things.*


Whatever. Depends on what's the definition of tiny. If it's one of the main currencies used for the huge business of drugs, I think it's a huge thing. And as other people mentioned, there are 100s of non drug related businesses that use it, and the number will keep growing.




> But how quickly can you move thousands in and out of bitcoin?


If things are that way, why the hell do you assume it's going to be that way forever?

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## itshappening

> lol i know this is random but how can i create a silk road account i have tor... i dunno registration is down or something? :\ I'm also waiting for my bank to show 2 deposits of a certain amount so i can type that amount to link my bank account and purchase some bitcoins to.. hopefully use on the silk road lol


I haven't looked at it in years and this probably isnt the best place to talk about it .

----------


## itshappening

> Whatever. Depends on what's the definition of tiny. If it's one of the main currencies used for the huge business of drugs, I think it's a huge thing. And as other people mentioned, there are 100s of non drug related businesses that use it, and the number will keep growing.
> 
> 
> 
> If things are that way, why the hell do you assume it's going to be that way forever?


So what happens if MT GOX is brought down by Chuck Schumer and his gang? What happens if all the other exchanges get taken out to and have their bank accounts that they use frozen through the international system at the behest of the loving US government? What happens to the price of BTC then?

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## kcchiefs6465

> Nobody said a deregulated, decentralized currency would be easy.  People on this board have been clamoring for those terms since I first started posting here.  That time has arrived.
> 
> If you want to play, you need to learn how to protect yourself and put on your big boy pants.


It's amazing, with regards to 'big boy pants,' that BTC is about the only thing you seem to acknowledge them needed for. It's a big boy world. Perhaps you should continue trading virtual fiats, not drive in the big boy lanes, and not take your health into your own hands? I question your motives, sometimes. You don't seem particularly liberty minded. (with regards to every other thread I've seen you post, aside from BTC related ones) Though admittedly, that's a total of two threads.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> That's called the free market. 
> 
> A pyramid scheme is run by one person or group of people who know the thing is actually designed to lose money in the long term.


For your first point, that sounds like a scheme. Sounds like a bit of slick talking sean connery going on. (BTC) 

As to your second point, it's not?

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## PaulConventionWV

> For your first point, that sounds like a scheme. Sounds like a bit of slick talking sean connery going on. (BTC) 
> 
> As to your second point, it's not?


Umm... what?

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## kcchiefs6465

> Lessons.
> 
> From what I can tell, early adopters have accumulated thousands of them. They tell everyone they know to get in on the action, it's going to the moon. Everywhere they go they are encouraging people to pick these up. (it's going to the moon, after all) People with the thousands of BTC cash them out at the height, (as they apparently did) while the average person who got caught up in the hype is stuck holding the bag. Things too good to be true, ARE.
> 
> That is besides all of the other problems. (DDOS attacks, the government going to proverbial war with BTC, (money laundering and terrorist financing allegations) etc.) It aint going to last. Those who claim otherwise are foolish, or are deliberately misleading people.





> That's called the free market. 
> 
> A pyramid scheme is run by one person or group of people who know the thing is actually designed to lose money in the long term.





> For your first point, that sounds like a scheme. Sounds like a bit of slick talking sean connery going on. (BTC) 
> 
> As to your second point, it's not?





> Umm... what?


What is not to understand, now that it's in context? The creators and people they knew accumulated them when they weren't worth $#@!. They 'pumped them up' (put them on a pedestal) to everyone they know as being an easy medium for online transactions. (I'd imagine that was their pitch) More people invested. The early investors had thousands of them. They needed more people to invest to turn a buck. They talked to everyone they know. Told them it's basically a sure thing. More people bought in. Rinse and repeat to a 'few' more layers of people. The price bubbled to where it was. The people who originally came up with the idea, got out. They put their money in $#@! that actually had value. The price crashed. Sure it's stablized. A few probably aren't done milking this cow.

'Slick talking Sean Connery' - I assume that's why you are confused as to what I was saying - Sean Connery is slick talking, James Bond and all. 'Connery;' trickery, thievery, a downright scheme. A play on words if you will. I thought it was creative. I should probably create graphics and 'insultingly' double speak to those who oppose. I'm sure I could bring in a few investors to get this bubble inflating once again. (if it weren't for I don't trust the $#@! to hold value in any sense of the word 'run'- long, short, etc.)

----------


## tttppp

> So what happens if MT GOX is brought down by Chuck Schumer and his gang? What happens if all the other exchanges get taken out to and have their bank accounts that they use frozen through the international system at the behest of the loving US government? What happens to the price of BTC then?


I am not a fan of Bitcoin, but you seem to be making up any excuse to trash Bitcoin. Unlike popular belief, just because someones market value goes down, does not mean it has crashed and is dead. There has definetly been profit taking by rational people who knew it wasn't going to the moon. But Bitcoin would be more than happy with their increeases. If it goes back to where it was before, then you can call it a fad. If it goes way below where it originally was, then its a crash. If it goes close to zero, then its dead. Your definitions of crash and dead are completely misguided.

----------


## muh_roads

> It's amazing, with regards to 'big boy pants,' that BTC is about the only thing you seem to acknowledge them needed for. It's a big boy world. Perhaps you should continue trading virtual fiats, not drive in the big boy lanes, and not take your health into your own hands? I question your motives, sometimes. You don't seem particularly liberty minded. (with regards to every other thread I've seen you post, aside from BTC related ones) Though admittedly, that's a total of two threads.


What is devious about that?  Decentralization is scary to some and people should acknowledge the risks.  I have posted about how to keep your private keys from ever touching the internet.  I have talked about Two-Factor authentication for blockchain wallets.

Yes such evil motives.

The foundations & mission of Bitcoin are 100% liberty focused.  It rose out of the ashes after the banks were bailed out in 2009.  The original creator stated this as to why he created the open-source system.

You, sir, don't seem very liberty focused by throwing around terms like "ponzi" before researching it yourself.  What are your motives?

If you think gox is a ponzi...well, I may agree with you on that...but I can't prove their motives so I don't bother...

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## kcchiefs6465

> The foundations & mission of Bitcoin are 100% liberty focused.  It rose out of the ashes after the banks were bailed out in 2009.  *The original creator stated this as to why he* created the open-source system.


Who? You mentioned 'he.' I was under the impression no one knew who started BTC. Am I wrong to assume that?

----------


## muh_roads

> Who? You mentioned 'he.' I was under the impression no one knew who started BTC. Am I wrong to assume that?


Considering only 4% of Bitcoin ppl are chicks I assume it was a "he"  

Yeah nobody knows who the Satoshi Cyber Jesus was.

----------


## Original_Intent

Bitcoin hasn't failed until Kramer has said to buy it.

If that post doesn't help my pathetic rep status, nothing I can say will.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Who? You mentioned 'he.' I was under the impression no one knew who started BTC. Am I wrong to assume that?


The Phantom

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What is not to understand, now that it's in context? The creators and people they knew accumulated them when they weren't worth $#@!. They 'pumped them up' (put them on a pedestal) to everyone they know as being an easy medium for online transactions. (I'd imagine that was their pitch) More people invested. The early investors had thousands of them. They needed more people to invest to turn a buck. They talked to everyone they know. Told them it's basically a sure thing. More people bought in. Rinse and repeat to a 'few' more layers of people. The price bubbled to where it was. The people who originally came up with the idea, got out. They put their money in $#@! that actually had value. The price crashed. Sure it's stablized. A few probably aren't done milking this cow.
> 
> 'Slick talking Sean Connery' - I assume that's why you are confused as to what I was saying - Sean Connery is slick talking, James Bond and all. 'Connery;' trickery, thievery, a downright scheme. A play on words if you will. I thought it was creative. I should probably create graphics and 'insultingly' double speak to those who oppose. I'm sure I could bring in a few investors to get this bubble inflating once again. (if it weren't for I don't trust the $#@! to hold value in any sense of the word 'run'- long, short, etc.)


The difference is that a pyramid scheme is not sustainable.  A small group of people asks people for money and promises interest payments.  It uses the payments from the new inductees into the scheme to pay off the early adopters, if they pay anyone at all, and run off with the rest.  

Bitcoin is not a scheme.  It can actually generate returns for everyone if it becomes widely used and the resources will not run out.  It is just as sustainable as any currency if people use it.

If you want to call it a ponzi scheme just because there were early adapters who pumped it, then you could call Ford a ponzi scheme.  You could call Google a ponzi scheme.  Pump from early adapters doesn't always mean it's illegitimate.  You see, a ponzi or pyramid scheme loses money by definition, by necessity.  You can't take $10 from someone and use the $10 from a second person to pay the first person $11 and expect to make money.  Bitcoin is nothing like a pyramid scheme once you put into the correct context.

----------


## MRK

Mike Adams, YOU have failed. Stick to making up stories about 'natural' industries instead of currency commentary.

----------


## amonasro

> So what happens if MT GOX is brought down by Chuck Schumer and his gang? What happens if all the other exchanges get taken out to and have their bank accounts that they use frozen through the international system at the behest of the loving US government? What happens to the price of BTC then?


Mt.Gox is in Japan. Other international exchanges would pop up. Black market bitcoins would be all the rage if every country in the world outlawed them. What if? What if the world ends tomorrow? What if Ron Paul was unelectable? What if Rand Paul is? It doesn't stop us from trying. With over 11,000 posts I expected a little more faith from you. 

Im really sick of the unfounded criticisms. It's a Ponzi! It's unstable! It'll drop to zero! <insert conspiracy> Makes me question some of the motives around here when an actual free currency comes along with potential.  Does Ron Paul not talk about competing currencies? 

Grow a pair, go read and research for a few days. Open your mind to the possibilities. It's natural that something like this is going to have a rough start. If the boat is too shaky I encourage you to jump off into the freezing fiat waters.

----------

