# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Stop Smart Meter Letter (Presence)

## CaptUSA

This thread is in response to a letter posted by presence in another thread.  As an expert, I'd like to separate fact from fiction.



> TO: Agent for Service @ (utility)
>  President .....
>  Vice-President .....
>  ADDRESS
> 
> DATE
>  RE: your address
> 
> NOTICE OF NO CONSENT TO TRESPASS AND SURVEILLANCE, NOTICE OF LIABILITY
> ...


1.  *False.* They do not.  If your smart meter is connected to PCT's (Programmable Controllable Thermostats) in your home, you can get this feature, but you would have to have these hooked up yourself.  A smart meter is not capable of this feature without PCT's or IHD's (In-Home devices)
2.  This is worded poorly, but it's* kind of true.*  Smart meters are capable of understanding your specific normal usage down the the 5 minute interval.  They can tell you how much power presence would normally use at 4:00pm on a Sunday in July when the temperature is 90 degrees outside.  And your usage would be flagged if it was much different than expected.
3.  *Absolutely true*.  While we have sophisticated security measures, they are constantly being hacked and patched just like anything else.  As soon as we discover a breach of security, we will fix it, but how many people's info would be compromised in the meantime?
4.  *False.*  At least for now.  The information is collected and stored, but it is not turned over to 3rd parties unless you request it.  Some people actually do this so they can shop for lower generation rates.  It will not be turned over without your permission, though.  However, this is now.  Who's to say the government won't subpeona this info?  What happens 10 years from now when they want to cut more power?  Do they ask for all info to be turned over to the government so their analysts can punish the high users?
5.  *True.*  But the archived information is regularly pruged since the files become too large.
6.  *True.*  But same as number 3.
7.  *False.*  Personally, I believe this is true, but so far, they haven't legally met that definition.
8.  *Some true, some false.*  This one is pretty vague.  A hacker would be able to see patterns, but I question the type of patterns they are talking about here.
9.  Probably a case by case basis depending on the company, but most companies understand the sensitive nature of these programs and try to inform their customers to the best of their ability.  There are no secrets, but some of the technology is a little hard to understand so people naturally, misunderstand it.
10.  *False.*  The health concerns from smart meters is completely overblown.  While there is concern, there is absolutely no proof that the signals cause medical issues.  The smart meters do NOT exceed allowable limits.  In fact, depending on the type of meter, most of them are about 1/10th of the power of the cell phone you are putting up to your head.
11.  *True.*  See number 3.  However, the firmware can be updated remotely.  Once a problem is discovered, you can easily update each meter with a fix.  Still...  that AFTER the problem is found.
12.  *True.*  But your old meter can suffer the same fate.
13.  *Unsure.*  Sorry, I'm not sure what they're talking about here.  I guess they saw a demo some place, but it must have been with an older meter.
14.  *True.*  But there are plenty of way to shut off your power even without a smart meter.  In fact, at least with a smart meter, any tempering will be known by the company immediately.
15.  *True.*  See number 3.  
16.  *False.*  Any interference sends alarms back to the Meter Data Management System.  (I suppose it's possible to hide the interference by making it look like it's being sent but not received.  It would trigger an alarm, but it might take some time before anyone would respond to that type of alarm.)
17.  *True and False. * Hacking can occur, but the information is restricted to authorized people and cannot be given to 3rd parties unless you request it.
18.  This would be kind of self-defeating.  Let me see, you want them to keep the info secure, but you want them to make public the information about how they're keeping it secure?  I'm sure the hackers would love that info.
19.  *False.*  This is a complete misunderstanding of how metering works and how utilities operate.
20.  *True, but misleading.*  I can't speak for every state, but in most locations, smart meters are something that are being forced upon utilities and not something for which we are asking.  When the government tells us to research this, we give them all the info we can give.  And most of this info is made public through PUC documentation.  (Again, I can't speak for every state or every company, but I'm sure it's usually the same.)  The utility companies are not trying to pull a trick on their customers.  In fact, we stand to lose a lot of money if people start to adjust their usage habits based upon their new detailed information.
21.  *FALSE!*  Again, this is state by state, but in PA, it was absolutely mandated.  Look up PA Act 129.  They are right that it is not federally mandated yet, but they're still trying.
22.  *False.*  But again, it depends on the state.
23.  *False.*  Again, they misunderstand how smart meters work.  Most of the new meters are actually bi-directional.  Which means they don't run "backwards" but they do capture delivered and received.  Billing of these will vary by company.
24.  *False.*  This can happen with any type of meter.  It usually makes them run slower, not faster.  However, when this happens to a smart meter, the company will receive a flag almost immediately.  So you won't be getting that discount for very long if your meter breaks.
25.  *Unsure.*  But neither are they.  This is specualtion and pretty doubtful.  Especially, if all the other homes in the area have the same metering.

Opt-in/opt-out provisions vary by state.  In PA, the government does not allow you to opt-out.  I believe CA is starting to allow opt-out if you pay an extra fee.  I highly doubt this document would hold up in court - especially in those states that are mandating the installs.  It may slow down the installer, though.  They may take the order back to the company a couple of times before it gets resolved.  This will not negate the easement.  You can negate the easement by cancelling your service, but as long as you are getting power and have their property on your home, they have a right to change it to any equipment they want.

To sum up:
Not a health risk.
Serious concerns about privacy.
Serious concerns about how government will direct the utilities to use this information in the future.
Serious hacking concerns.  Same as with any wireless computer.
If you don't want one, call your PUC, Call your representatives, Call your power company, and make a stink.  BUT DON'T ASSAULT THE WORKERS!!!

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## TheTexan

> BUT DON'T ASSAULT THE WORKERS!!!


It's called a warrant, CaptUSA.  Either get one, or GTFO.

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## CaptUSA

> It's called a warrant, CaptUSA.  Either get one, or GTFO.


You have another thread for your misunderstandings of property rights.  This thread is about giving people an accurate description of the issues with smart meters.

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## donnay



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## TheTexan

> You have another thread for your misunderstandings of property rights.  This thread is about giving people an accurate description of the issues with smart meters.


If you don't want to get into that discussion here, then keep your pussy-promoting editorializing to yourself, and let people make their own decisions on whether or not to stand up for their rights

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## presence

I just want to subscribe to the thread because I seem to have spawned it.  I do want to note that I was re-posting the above mentioned "form letter" from an "advocacy site" I quickly googled up.  I did add emphasis through bold/color alteration.  I have no legal background on this subject beyond cursory internet research of the laws in various US states.  

My bottom line on the subject is if you want to track how much power I use each month... I don't have a problem with it.  But if you want to track how much power I use every 5 minutes?  

That's *PEEPING TOM*; its none of your damn business when my wife is washing her underwear.





> To sum up:
> Not a health risk.
> *Serious concerns about privacy.*
> Serious concerns about how government will direct the utilities to use this information in the future.
> Serious hacking concerns.  Same as with any wireless computer.
> If you don't want one, call your PUC, Call your representatives, Call  your power company, and make a stink.  
> 
> *BUT DON'T ASSAULT THE WORKERS!!!                        *



Generally I agree.  But I'm still gonna post a copy of that form letter on my rusty old meter can.  If nothing else, to foul the gears.  Hopefully doing so gives me notice and options before I am fitted with one of these voyeur devices.

That said, If you don't want a new digital meter, and you find yourself in a forced situation:  

*I do suggest you resort to discontinuing service* and asking for their new meter/monitor combo to be promptly removed from YOUR meter can, in protest, prior to pointing a firearm at an electrician doing his job. I'm an electrician.  




> 1. They individually identify electrical devices inside the home and record when they are operated causing invasion of privacy.





> 1.  *False.* They do not.  If your smart meter is connected to  PCT's (Programmable Controllable Thermostats) in your home, you can get  this feature, but you would have to have these hooked up yourself.  A  smart meter is not capable of this feature without PCT's or IHD's  (In-Home devices)


I thoroughly disagree with your assessment of #1.   When a 4500 watt water heater kicks on, it's a 4500 watt water heater there is no getting around it.  When a 60w 120w or 240w spike shows up... you just turned on a light switch with 1, 2 or 4 60w bulbs.  1500w: a heating element.  450w  Your PC just booted.   1235w your new plasma screen just turned on.  It doesn't say "water heater" on the report: It shows a 4500w *tell-tale* spike.  These minute by minute reports most definitely define *

what you use* and *when you use it.* 

They may not give brand name, they may not distinguish toasters from hair dryers.  But a good investigator with good intution will quickly uncover personal habits by reading a minute by minute electrical usage report.  

Why is anyone even interested?  Aside from sickos wanting to know when my wife washes her undies?  

The drug war:  1000w HPS and MH lights kicking on and off on 12 hour cycles in warehouses to grow MJ.

So the rest of America is cajoled into giving up more of their privacy so that they may be more "secure" from the evil "illicit drug manufacturers".

Now again... I don't recommend you point a gun at your lineman, but...

post#49 from bxm042:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4546011




> Contracts are of a civil nature, not criminal.  They're enforced in civil courts.
> 
> The difference between civil & criminal is generally that civil  suits are intended to be restorative (ie, to recover damages from a  broken contract), whereas criminal offenses land you in jail.
> 
> Breaking the contract (just assuming for now that it was broken... power  company lawyers are well paid) is not a crime.  But staying on a  woman's property after she tells you to leave... that absolutely is a  crime.



If you are an electrician, just doing your job, and someone does pull a gun on you and tells you to get off their land.  Don't expect some dusty contract stored in some sleazy corporate office to save your life.  Pack up your $#@! and get on.

presence

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