# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  The Dangerous Chemicals Lurking in Your Laundry Soap

## donnay

*The Dangerous Chemicals Lurking in Your Laundry Soap*

Dr. David Juan

You wear your clothes every day and probably take great pains to keep a number of different outfits ready for any occasion.

Youve likely invested time and effort into making sure your clothes fit properly and look good when you put them on.

Its kind of odd then, that most of us pay little attention to what we clean our clothes with.

There are commercial laundry soaps galore on store shelves and each assures that it does the best job when it comes to getting clothes clean. But what these soaps are also full of chemicals. The average laundry soap has a number of harmful substances in it that could potentially enter into your skin when you wear clothes that retain some of these chemicals. As for the air you breathe, some estimates peg the number of VOCs that can be released into the air when using commercial laundry soaps or dryer sheets in excess of 25.

There is a way you can reduce your exposure to the chemicals in laundry soap and that is to try to buy products made without these harmful chemicals. Alternately, you can use some all-natural, time-honored soap recipes that you can make yourself right in the comfort of your own home.

When buying laundry soap from the grocery store, you can be sure that a product labeled with a dozen warnings is probably not going to be good for your skin or the environment. Instead, look for products with the fewest toxicity warnings. Buy products scented with natural essential oils instead of artificial fragrance.

Avoid using chlorine bleach to whiten clothes. Instead, try borax. Borax is made from sodium borate, a mineral that occurs naturally in the environment. Sodium borate contains sodium, boron, oxygen and water. You can add a 1/2 cup of borax to regular detergent to help remove stains and brighten whites and colors. Use borax in small amounts as it too can be harmful in large amounts.

Try adding white vinegar to your rinse cycle. White vinegar is great for fighting odors and preventing mold and mildew. White vinegar also brightens clothes and can be used as a fabric softener. NOTE: Dont combine vinegar with bleach as it creates a toxic chlorine vapor.

Heres a homemade recipe you can create from scratch. Add 11 cups of washing soda to 15 cups of baking soda. Mix in seven cups of castile soap and three tablespoons of essential oil (such as lavender or lemon). This recipe should get you through months of doing laundry.

Heres one more laundry trick. Avoid taking your clothes to the dry cleaners after a single use. Fill a spray bottle with inexpensive vodka and spot spray clothing (check for color fastness first). Alcohol kills the bacteria that can lead to odors.

There you have it: all the information you need to create a healthier and more-environmentally friendly laundry soap. Your clothes will appreciate it and your body will too. As for the environment, you may not be able to see the impact first hand, but you will be contributing to less pollution in the air and water.

Sources:

Hollender, J., et al., Natural, Homemade Laundry Soaps, Mother Earth News web site, July 14, 2011; http://www.motherearthnews.com/natur...e0z11zhir.aspx, last accessed Dec. 10, 2013. 
Lozanova, S., Toxic Laundry Ingredients to Avoid, Mother Earth News, April, 2012; http://www.motherearthliving.com/hea...z12mazmel.aspx, last accessed Dec. 12, 2013.  
This article The Dangerous Chemicals Lurking in Your Laundry Soap was originally published on DoctorsHealthPress, visit their site to access their vast database of articles and the latest information in natural health.

David Juan, MD has a distinguished reputation as an authority on nutrition, vitamin D and calcium metabolism, hormones, and medical research. His 30 years of clinical experience, 12 years of medical school teaching experience, and medical degree from the University of Pennsylvania give Dr. Juan a leading edge in his expertise. He is well versed in both traditional and alternative medicine and has written and researched breakthrough papers on a variety of medical subjects. Dr. Juan is currently on the staff of a holistic pain relief center in San Francisco and he lends his experience to The Vitamin Doctor.

http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2013...p-2516782.html

----------


## Zippyjuan

You aren't supposed to eat laundry soap.




> But what these soaps are also full of chemicals.





> Avoid using chlorine bleach to whiten clothes. Instead, try borax.


Borax is also a chemical.




> Use borax in small amounts as it too can be harmful in large amounts.


Just like everything else.

----------


## youngbuck

At the very least I buy the 'Free & Clear' versions of laundry detergents, but usually make the effort to get a natural brand like Seventh Generation, etc.  I'll definitely pass on all those toxic dyes, scents, and God-knows-what-else found in most detergents.

----------


## dannno

I've been having great success with a very simple recipe:

1/2 cup of borax
1/2 cup of super washing soda (arm & hammer)
1/2 bar of soap grated on the small size grate of a cheese grater

Mix together well, store in an air tight container. 1-2 tbs per load.

In the fabric softener area, I put about 1/4 cup of white vinegar and 3-5 drops of lavender essential oil.

I cut up some 5"x5" squares of white cotton from an old undershirt and add 3-5 drops of lavender essential oil to a square of the cotton and add to my dryer load instead of a dryer sheet. You can reuse them. If you want you can wash them after every few loads. You shouldn't have too much issues with static cling, but if you do you can stick a ball of aluminium foil in the dryer and reuse it.

----------


## oyarde

I hate any of it just about that is scented . If there is anything dangerous in there I should have been dead long ago , The Mrs throws things in the washer as soon as I take them off. If it were just me , I would just hang up my jackets and quilted flannels somewhere , maybe wash it once a week , LOL

----------


## donnay

> You aren't supposed to eat laundry soap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Borax is also a chemical.
> 
> 
> ...


You're right, borax isn't really the safest alternative as once thought.  I tried this alternative, and it seems to work well.  I added an essential oil for a faint smelling fragrance.

*Recipe for Borax-Free Laundry Detergent:*

Ingredients:

1 bar glycerin soap, grated finely
 1 c. washing soda
 1/2 c. baking soda
1/2 c. citric acid
 1/4 c. coarse salt

Directions:
1.  Finely grate 1 bar of pure, unscented glycerine soap

2.  Add last 4 ingredients

3.  Mix thoroughly

4.  Place a desiccant in jar to prevent clumping.

5.  Store in airtight container

6.  Add 1-2 tbsp. detergent to machine for clean, safe, fresh laundry!

http://myhealthygreenfamily.com/blog...dry-detergent/

----------


## amy31416

> 1 bar glycerin soap, grated finely
> 1 c. washing soda
> 1/2 c. baking soda
> 1/2 c. citric acid
> 1/4 c. coarse salt


All five of those ingredients are also chemicals or contain chemicals, so that can't be safe either.

Are there any chemical-free laundry soaps you can point us to?

----------


## Dr.3D

> All five of those ingredients are also chemicals or contain chemicals, so that can't be safe either.
> 
> Are there any chemical-free laundry soaps you can point us to?


The last I knew, everything on the Periodic chart of the elements is considered a chemical.   Of course if that's true, that means we are made of chemicals.

----------


## amy31416

> The last I knew, everything on the Periodic chart of the elements is considered a chemical.   Of course if that's true, that means we are made of chemicals.


If you want to be specific, everything on the periodic chart are chemical elements, and the nasty stuff in that laundry soap is called chemical compounds. But yeah, we're made of chemicals....nasty, icky unsafe chemicals.

----------


## donnay

> The last I knew, everything on the Periodic chart of the elements is considered a chemical.   Of course if that's true, that means we are made of chemicals.


Yep kind of like dopamine is a chemical our bodies produces.  The dopamine that you get in drugs is of the man-made kind.

----------


## familydog

> All five of those ingredients are also chemicals or contain chemicals, so that can't be safe either.
> 
> Are there any chemical-free laundry soaps you can point us to?


A few soap nuts will do the trick.

----------


## Suzanimal

I make my own soap because the homemade version works pretty good, is ok to use in an HE washer, is cheap and doesn't bother my son's skin. I use Danno's recipe but I add baking soda(we have hard water) and I put my soap in the Ninja instead of grating it - it comes out finer and grating's a pain in the butt. 

I enjoyed the article but I did have to laugh at this suggestion, yeah let me spray my clothes with cheap Vodka before I go to work




> Here’s one more laundry trick. Avoid taking your clothes to the dry cleaners after a single use. Fill a spray bottle with inexpensive vodka and spot spray clothing (check for color fastness first). Alcohol kills the bacteria that can lead to odors.

----------


## amy31416

> A few soap nuts will do the trick.


Soap nuts contain chemicals.

----------


## familydog

> Soap nuts contain chemicals.


Oh, I didn't catch the unnecessarily facetious nature of your post. My mistake for trying to have a real conversation.

----------


## FSU63

Really? Out of all of the things to be concerned about, you're attacking laundry detergent?

If people really care about their health, instead of worrying about fluoridated water and chemicals in laundry detergent, they should be worrying about going to the gym and eating a clean diet.

----------


## amy31416

> Oh, I didn't catch the unnecessarily facetious nature of your post. My mistake for trying to have a real conversation.


Well come on here...a real conversation involves words that are used correctly. If there is an issue with certain chemicals, and there's plenty of them to have issues with, then say why and which ones. Just saying "like ewwww man, this has chemicals in it, it's bad!" is meaningless when pretty much everything in this world is made of chemicals.

----------


## angelatc

I used to add Trisodium phosphate, then I read somewhere that was the wrong phosphate to use. 




> TriSodium Phosphate Synonyms: Sodium phosphate, tribasic; Sodium orthophosphate; Sodium phosphate; Trisodium orthophosphate; Phosphoric acid, trisodium salt; Sodium phosphate 
> Na3O4P
> 
> Sodium TriPolyPhosphate Synonyms: Sodium triphosphate; Triphosphoric acid, pentasodium salt; Sodium Phosphate Tripoly; STPP; pentasodium triphosphate; Pentasodium Tripolyphosphate 
> 
> [Na5O10P3]n





> TSP is a simple or "mono" phosphate and generates a precipitate, which is not a good thing for laundry use but not so much a problem washing a driveway. Avoiding precipitates is the reason for using STPP instead of other types of water softeners/boosters.
> 
> *STPP is a "complex" phosphate compound and does not form a precipitate in the wash water.* STPP decomposes into TSP over time with exposure to moisture (detergent packages instruct "store in a cool, dry place" which is to protect the product quality, whether or not phosphates are in it), and thus should be kept in an air-tight container for long-term storage.


No idea what the bolded part means, but there it is.

----------


## silverhandorder

Wait I add TSP to laundry and dishes. I thought it was a rinsing agent. Plus I thought TSP was in all cleaning products until it was banned recently over pollution.

----------


## ghengis86

What a bunch of $#@!. Which chemicals, specifically?  How Are they substantive to the textile and not soluble in the water rinsing?  Where's the study confirming the mode of action/mechanism where any chemical residue on properly laundered textiles is adsorbed through the skin?  Give me some units with that VOC claim; and how about the method of collecting that data?  Right over the drain? 

Junk science article is junk. 

But if you want the 'safest' - but quite possibly most ineffective product - use sodium bicarbonate, sodium carbonate, sodium citrate, sodium chloride and a natural, tallow based surfactant/soap (but be careful if you have hard water).  

Typical home laundry has very little soil, so throwing some table salt and baking soda into the washer might seem like the best kept secret since the invention of the washing machine. But there's really nothing there. Tide (P&G) employs an army of R&D scientists and patent attorneys to make actual, science based claims, backed up with studies, methodology and data. They even post their product ingredients online and their MSD sheets.  So, unless someone can show me how a palm based, readily biodegradable linear alcohol ethoxylate surfactant used at the PPM (talking milligrams per liter) concentration during the wash process is somehow remaining on the textile after laundering and drying, which is also adsorbed onto the wearers skin, I'm not losing any sleep. 

But kudos if you make your own, save some cash, get good results, keep money from the big corps, and enjoy it. If you want any tips to enhance your detergent, hit me up; I know this stuff pretty well!

----------


## ghengis86

> I used to add Trisodium phosphate, then I read somewhere that was the wrong phosphate to use. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No idea what the bolded part means, but there it is.


Sodium tri-polyphosphate (STPP) is what you want to add to any detergent or cleaning solution. Hardware stores have it.

----------


## ghengis86

> Wait I add TSP to laundry and dishes. I thought it was a rinsing agent. Plus I thought TSP was in all cleaning products until it was banned recently over pollution.


Tri-sodium phosphate can act as a rinsing agent, but not the best. 

There's a ban/restriction on the percent elemental phosphorous as "p" or phosphate P2O5 in certain areas in the country and by product category. Some phosphonates are exempted, even though they contain elemental P.

ETA: and the pollution aspect is not that phosphates are toxic. They are actually fertilizers that encourage plant growth. The environmental concern is the eutrophication of water ways caused by the excessive plant growth due to phosphates in surface waters. Have you ever seen a lake with tons of algae, Lillie's, cat tails and other aquatic plants?  They can 'kill' a lake pretty quick by making it inhospitable to fish and other aquatic animals necessary for a healthy ecosystem. 

And 90% of the phosphates found in surface waters were from agricultural use, not household or institutional use in cleaning products. Big Ag gets off pretty easy, while the consumer gets stuck with more expensive, less effective products. Thanks EPA!

----------


## ghengis86

> I used to add Trisodium phosphate, then I read somewhere that was the wrong phosphate to use. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No idea what the bolded part means, but there it is.


You can make a really difficult to remove soap-scum/white buildup with TSP if you have hard water called calcium phosphate. This can clog water passages in washers and dishwashers and make cleaning the shower a bitch. You need a strong acid to remove calcium phosphate (such as dilute sulfuric or nitric). CLR is actually a good product for this since its an acid based cleaner.

----------


## ghengis86

From one the the OP links, which linked to here: http://www.motherearthliving.com/lau...#axzz2oqGaz4Hs

EDTA?!?  That's used in food products more than detergents!

Judas...where to begin.

----------


## Suzanimal

> You aren't supposed to eat laundry soap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Borax is also a chemical.
> 
> 
> ...


I've used Borax with a drop of dawn in my dishwasher when I've run out dishwasher detergent. Works pretty good.

----------


## donnay

*Toxic Chemicals Found in Laundry Soaps and Air Fresheners*

A study of top-selling laundry products and air fresheners found the products emitted dozens of different chemicals. All six products tested gave off at least one chemical regulated as toxic or hazardous under federal laws, but none of those chemicals was listed on the product labels. 

"I first got interested in this topic because people were telling me that the air fresheners in public restrooms and the scent from laundry products vented outdoors were making them sick," said Anne Steinemann, a University of Washington professor of civil and environmental engineering and of public affairs. "And I wanted to know, 'What's in these products that is causing these effects?'" 

Manufacturers of consumer products are not required to disclose the ingredients, so Steinemann analyzed the products to discover their contents. 

*"I was surprised by both the number and the potential toxicity of the chemicals that were found," Steinemann said. Chemicals included acetone, the active ingredient in paint thinner and nail-polish remover; limonene, a molecule with a citrus scent; and acetaldehyde, chloromethane and 1,4-dioxane.* 

Nearly 100 volatile organic compounds were emitted from the six products, and none were listed on any product label, she said. Plus, five of the six products emitted one or more carcinogenic "hazardous air pollutants," which are considered by the Environmental Protection Agency to have no safe exposure level, Steinemann said. 

The study is detailed online in today's issue of the journal Environmental Impact Assessment Review.  

Steinemann chose not to disclose the brand names of the six products she tested. But in a larger study of 25 cleaners, personal care products, air fresheners and laundry products, now submitted for publication, Steinemann found that many other brands contained similar chemicals. 

http://www.livescience.com/5034-toxi...resheners.html


ETA:  http://www.organicconsumers.org/body...acts080314.pdf

----------


## FSU63

Any chemical can be toxic in excess amounts.

And, as I said above, stop worrying about the big bad laundry detergent companies wanting to poison you 

Just eat clean and lift heavy $#@!.

----------


## donnay

> Any chemical can be toxic in excess amounts.
> 
> And, as I said above, stop worrying about the big bad laundry detergent companies wanting to poison you 
> 
> Just eat clean and lift heavy $#@!.


Well considering people wash their clothes pretty regularly, sleep on sheets, wear pajama and under garments I would say that those type of chemicals would not be used in moderation, eh?  Washing their dishes in a chemical sludge... how much residue is on their dishes too?  Would that be eating clean?  When you factor all those things in, on a daily basis, it becomes excess.

VOC's are everywhere...one must be aware of a good portion of them and try to eliminate them as best they can.  This thread was started to bring some awareness of these issues to possibly help those who would like to eliminate them by the alternatives discussed.

----------


## FSU63

No, those minute amounts really don't add up as much as you're implying. Not enough to make any real difference at all. 

And, yes, consuming a healthy diet does wonders. My health is nearly immaculate. And I still consume GMOs, fluoridated water, and these "dangerous" laundry chemicals.

----------


## osan

> Soap nuts contain chemicals.


So do my nuts.  What's your point?

----------


## donnay

> No, those minute amounts really don't add up as much as you're implying. Not enough to make any real difference at all. 
> 
> And, yes, consuming a healthy diet does wonders. My health is nearly immaculate. And I still consume GMOs, fluoridated water, and these "dangerous" laundry chemicals.


God bless you, I wish you well.

----------


## ghengis86

Watch out; one of those terrible chemicals is found in citrus fruits!!  

And another one is found in many other fruits, nuts and foods!!!  

And yet another one is a common metabolic product in your own body!!!

The horrors, the horrors...


Seriously, I'd like to see some units of measure, time weighted average exposure limits, adsorption rates from textiles to skin and other, non-hyperbolic, scientific based data. That way, we could cut through the BS and decide for ourselves how 'toxic' or dangerous is our exposure.

----------


## donnay

> Watch out; one of those terrible chemicals is found in citrus fruits!!


I use cold pressed orange oil (d-limonene) for a lot of things around my house--  I use a capful in my laundry and my dishwashing.  I use orange oil and vinegar for cleaning as well.  The stuff is great!

Here is a whole list of things cold pressed orange oil is good for:
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/cgi-bin2/htsearch

----------


## silverhandorder

I looked for STPP but could not find anything in small amounts on sites I trust.

----------


## ghengis86

> I use cold pressed orange oil (d-limonene) for a lot of things around my house--  I use a capful in my laundry and my dishwashing.  I use orange oil and vinegar for cleaning as well.  The stuff is great!
> 
> Here is a whole list of things cold pressed orange oil is good for:
> http://www.dirtdoctor.com/cgi-bin2/htsearch


D-limonene (and all citrus terpenes for that matter) is a great solvent/degreaser. Spot stains with it, clean up gum- and synthetic-based adehesives, clean auto parts, etc. wonderful stuff. 

It is a skin sensitizer and will dry out your skin pretty quickly, so wear gloves and wash up afterwards. It's also flammable, so don't use next to an open flame (cool trick; take a section of orange peel 1x2 inches, fold the ends together with the rind facing out towards a candle flame, and watch the fireworks!  Ok, not firework worthy, but the terpenes in the rind create a fine mist when squeezed out and will burn, pop and crackle when it hits the flame.)

----------


## ghengis86

> I looked for STPP but could not find anything in small amounts on sites I trust.


How much are you looking for? Do you have an ACE/True Value/Home Depot nearby?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/261017036403?lpid=82

This is a ridiculous price for a pound. If you buy 40,000 lbs at a crack, it's only $0.60-0.70/lb, depending on grade (food grade, lite, medium, heavy density, kosher, etc.)

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> I use cold pressed orange oil (d-limonene) for a lot of things around my house--  I use a capful in my laundry and my dishwashing.  I use orange oil and vinegar for cleaning as well.  The stuff is great!
> 
> Here is a whole list of things cold pressed orange oil is good for:
> http://www.dirtdoctor.com/cgi-bin2/htsearch


I use vinegar for everything but had not thought to use orange oil.  Thanks, donnay.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> Watch out; one of those terrible chemicals is found in citrus fruits!!  
> 
> And another one is found in many other fruits, nuts and foods!!!  
> 
> And yet another one is a common metabolic product in your own body!!!
> 
> The horrors, the horrors...
> 
> 
> Seriously, I'd like to see some units of measure, time weighted average exposure limits, adsorption rates from textiles to skin and other, non-hyperbolic, scientific based data. That way, we could cut through the BS and decide for ourselves how 'toxic' or dangerous is our exposure.


I've heard for years that people with skin conditions must be very careful about laundry products.  Has this been your experience as well?

----------


## donnay

> D-limonene (and all citrus terpenes for that matter) is a great solvent/degreaser. Spot stains with it, clean up gum- and synthetic-based adehesives, clean auto parts, etc. wonderful stuff. 
> 
> It is a skin sensitizer and will dry out your skin pretty quickly, so wear gloves and wash up afterwards. It's also flammable, so don't use next to an open flame (cool trick; take a section of orange peel 1x2 inches, fold the ends together with the rind facing out towards a candle flame, and watch the fireworks!  Ok, not firework worthy, but the terpenes in the rind create a fine mist when squeezed out and will burn, pop and crackle when it hits the flame.)


In my 4th grade science fair that was my experiment--with a lemon and candle.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> I hate any of it just about that is scented . If there is anything dangerous in there I should have been dead long ago , The Mrs throws things in the washer as soon as I take them off. If it were just me , I would just hang up my jackets and quilted flannels somewhere , maybe wash it once a week , LOL


Same with my hubbie and I don't mind at all.  Just gotta love the earthy smell of clothes after a couple of weeks.  Saves money, too.

----------


## ghengis86

> I've heard for years that people with skin conditions must be very careful about laundry products.  Has this been your experience as well?


Not really. The detergents are usually fine, some sensitivity issues can be due to fabric softeners (and the associated frangrances) but its mostly irritation due to pH differences between the textile and users skin. Detergents are designed to rinse away cleanly, while softeners are designed to be substantive to the textile to provide performance attributes i.e. softness, wrinkle prevention, absorption, scent, body, etc. softeners are typically quaternary ammonium compounds. They could cause sensitivity issues in people with extremely sensitive skin. Same with the fragrance oils. 

Mostly though, it's a pH problem. Your skin is anywhere from pH 4.5-6.5. Your sweat, sebum and other secretions form the 'acid mantle' which is part of your skins natural defenses. When you wear clothes with a highly acid or neutral to alkaline pH, the pH balance if your skin is disrupted and irritation develops. Your skin secretes more or less of some compounds to compensate, which can lead to redness, swelling, itching, etc. typically this happens where the textile contacts the skin, such as the neck, shoulders, upper back, waist, wrists. 

If you have an MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) disorder, use fragrance free, gentle detergent and add an extra rinse at the end of the cycle; no softener. Use oxygen based bleaches. Check your water's pH as it can vary widely depending on area of the country. Softened water is best, if available.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> Not really. The detergents are usually fine, some sensitivity issues can be due to fabric softeners (and the associated frangrances) but its mostly irritation due to pH differences between the textile and users skin. Detergents are designed to rinse away cleanly, while softeners are designed to be substantive to the textile to provide performance attributes i.e. softness, wrinkle prevention, absorption, scent, body, etc. softeners are typically quaternary ammonium compounds. They could cause sensitivity issues in people with extremely sensitive skin. Same with the fragrance oils. 
> 
> Mostly though, it's a pH problem. Your skin is anywhere from pH 4.5-6.5. Your sweat, sebum and other secretions form the 'acid mantle' which is part of your skins natural defenses. When you wear clothes with a highly acid or neutral to alkaline pH, the pH balance if your skin is disrupted and irritation develops. Your skin secretes more or less of some compounds to compensate, which can lead to redness, swelling, itching, etc. typically this happens where the textile contacts the skin, such as the neck, shoulders, upper back, waist, wrists. 
> 
> If you have an MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity) disorder, use fragrance free, gentle detergent and add an extra rinse at the end of the cycle; no softener. Use oxygen based bleaches. Check your water's pH as it can vary widely depending on area of the country. Softened water is best, if available.


Thanks, this is very helpful.  Why do you think there is so much more MCS?  It seems laundry mfgs. are addressing this by making a "cleaner" product.  We rarely hear about the effects of the fabric softeners.

----------


## ghengis86

> Same with my hubbie and I don't mind at all.  Just gotta love the earthy smell of clothes after a couple of weeks.  Saves money, too.


Household clothes are laundered way too often typically. There's hardly any soil present. Usually people just want a clean looking shirt or pants, no wrinkles. My yard work jeans get washed maybe once a week; my 'nice' jeans once or twice a month. Just hang them up after a night out. 

If you want to save some money, but still get a good looking shirt/pants, just dampen with water and throw in the dryer or line dry. I'm a fan of a warm water rinse and spin plus drying.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> Household clothes are laundered way too often typically. There's hardly any soil present. Usually people just want a clean looking shirt or pants, no wrinkles. My yard work jeans get washed maybe once a week; my 'nice' jeans once or twice a month. Just hang them up after a night out. 
> 
> If you want to save some money, but still get a good looking shirt/pants, just dampen with water and throw in the dryer or line dry. I'm a fan of a warm water rinse and spin plus drying.


Agree!   Lol  - it's great to see that others do this, too.  We have rope strung around our basement and laundry area for drying in the winter.   Helps with dry air and obviously is easier on clothes and budget.

----------


## ghengis86

> Thanks, this is very helpful.  Why do you think there is so much more MCS?  It seems laundry mfgs. are addressing this by making a "cleaner" product.  We rarely hear about the effects of the fabric softeners.


I don't know. I think we just hear about MCS issues more often due to distributed media like the Internet and the increase in the actual number of individuals with MCS; not necessarily the proportion or occurrence relative to the population which I would guess to be somewhat constant (though I'd need to research).  We are exposed to a plethora of synthetic chemicals that weren't around 100 years ago. Then again, life expectancy was lower too. Like all things, I think there are multiple variables involved and trying to focus or control one aspect without understanding the big picture is foolish. That's why I am attracted to holistic approaches that consider all environmental influences. 

I think manufacturers are primarily capitalizing on consumers desire/demand for 'greener' products. They're in business to sell product, so if they can capture more market share by making more 'green' products available, they will. Or at least some will market to that segment more creatively.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> I don't know. I think we just hear about MCS issues more often due to distributed media like the Internet and the increase in the actual number of individuals with MCS; not necessarily the proportion or occurrence relative to the population which I would guess to be somewhat constant (though I'd need to research).  We are exposed to a plethora of synthetic chemicals that weren't around 100 years ago. Then again, life expectancy was lower too. Like all things, I think there are multiple variables involved and trying to focus or control one aspect without understanding the big picture is foolish. That's why I am attracted to holistic approaches that consider all environmental influences. 
> 
> I think manufacturers are primarily capitalizing on consumers desire/demand for 'greener' products. They're in business to sell product, so if they can capture more market share by making more 'green' products available, they will. Or at least some will market to that segment more creatively.


Thank you for the response.  This is very interesting.  I agree that green marketing is very clever as I have been taken in by some of it myself.

----------


## ghengis86

> Thank you for the response.  This is very interesting.  I agree that green marketing is very clever as I have been taken in by some of it myself.


It all depends on the definition of 'green', which is very nebulous and open to interpretation. 

What's green?  Biodegradable? Readily biodegradable?  Biodegradable by one of the OECD 301 series of tests?  Bio-renewable?  Non-toxic?  Low temp/energy conservation?  Naturally derived?  Fragrance/dye free?  Low aquatic toxicity?  More concentrated?  

Traditional Surfactants are typically derived from some sort of petroleum derivative that comes out of the earth. Now, the "green" surfactants are mostly derived from palm kernel oil, which comes from massive plantations in Indoenesia/Malaysia/southeast Asian countries where massive acreage of indigenous forest and rain forest has been destroyed to grow these trees. So, which is the 'greener' product?  I'm not saying either is preferable and that there aren't any other options, but right now, that's basically the situation. Use 'bad' petroleum that comes naturally from the ground, or use 'good' palm based oils that require the decimation of nature. Sort of like voting D or R!

----------


## amy31416

> So do my nuts.  What's your point?


Your nuts are bad and you should wear protective gear around them so they cause no further harm.

It's for the children.

----------


## FSU63

Oh, I just realized who the OP was. Nevermind, disregard all of his crazy conspiracy threads.

inb4 medical mafia cartel

----------


## Suzanimal

> I've heard for years that people with skin conditions must be very careful about laundry products.  Has this been your experience as well?


My son breaks out in "contact dermatitis" when his clothes are laundered in scented detergents (the perfumes seem to be the irritants). He does fine with the free & clear detergents but they didn't seem to be getting out the grease stains in my husbands clothes so I started making it. It's a win for us but I do love the smell of Gain.

----------


## amy31416

I'm cheap, all I use is half a scoop of Purex classic dry for a large load of laundry in cold water (unless there's some serious reason to use hot.) It's less than $3/large box--about 60 loads from each box. I use an empty box for the lint from the dryer, then burn it in the trash pit. No giant useless plastic jug. No skin reactions, no issues at all.

It works perfectly well, no overwhelming smell aside from "clean," it's light and makes shopping easier.

One useful bit of info: the manufacturers of detergents recommend approximately 2x the detergent needed whether dry or liquid. This will leave residue in your machine and is a waste of money.

I've used vinegar and other stuff, but nothing really makes enough of a difference to justify the cost and effort. But I guess some people are strangely obsessed with laundry.

----------


## ghengis86

> I'm cheap, all I use is half a scoop of Purex classic dry for a large load of laundry in cold water (unless there's some serious reason to use hot.) It's less than $3/large box--about 60 loads from each box. I use an empty box for the lint from the dryer, then burn it in the trash pit. No giant useless plastic jug. No skin reactions, no issues at all.
> 
> It works perfectly well, no overwhelming smell aside from "clean," it's light and makes shopping easier.
> 
> One useful bit of info: the manufacturers of detergents recommend approximately 2x the detergent needed whether dry or liquid. This will leave residue in your machine and is a waste of money.
> 
> I've used vinegar and other stuff, but nothing really makes enough of a difference to justify the cost and effort. But I guess some people are strangely obsessed with laundry.


Re: the 2X recommendation

The standard soil load against which the detergent's performance is measured is much higher than what a typical load of household laundry contains.  Thus, their recommendations are correct for what they test. But like I said before, most household laundry has very little soil, thus one can use less than recommended and still get good results. 

Regarding the build up:

The residue is insoluble compounds usually created by a combination of hard water or other water impuritues and the material in the detergent. With phosphates, you used to not get as much build up since they're such excellent sequesterants/chelants. But now detergents rely on phosphonates and polyacrylates, which are decent crystalline growth inhibitors, but not the best.  Lots of soda ash (sodium carbonate) in those cheap detergents.

----------


## amy31416

> Re: the 2X recommendation
> 
> The standard soil load against which the detergent's performance is measured is much higher than what a typical load of household laundry contains.  Thus, their recommendations are correct for what they test. But like I said before, most household laundry has very little soil, thus one can use less than recommended and still get good results. 
> 
> Regarding the build up:
> 
> The residue is insoluble compounds usually created by a combination of hard water or other water impuritues and the material in the detergent. With phosphates, you used to not get as much build up since they're such excellent sequesterants/chelants. But now detergents rely on phosphonates and polyacrylates, which are decent crystalline growth inhibitors, but not the best.  Lots of soda ash (sodium carbonate) in those cheap detergents.


Right, so using the recommended amount is almost always a waste--and that isn't mentioned on the box/bottle, which is why I thought it'd be useful to people.

I have no problem with cheap detergents using washing soda, it does the job. In using my washing machine (with hard water) here for over a year, not enough build-up to be concerned about.

----------


## ghengis86

> Right, so using the recommended amount is almost always a waste--and that isn't mentioned on the box/bottle, which is why I thought it'd be useful to people.
> 
> I have no problem with cheap detergents using washing soda, it does the job. In using my washing machine (with hard water) here for over a year, not enough build-up to be concerned about.


Yep. Sort of like shampoo bottles recommending to wash, rinse and repeat!  Use the product twice as fast for double the sales!  Lol.

----------


## FSU63

If we're ingesting all these things through our clothes, I should probably soak my clothes in protein powder. All KINDDDZZZ of gains!

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Some people think that anything grown with chemicals is "bad."  And anything grown naturally is  "good."  Yet nature itself is a chemical process.  Interestingly, your body can't tell whether a chemical was made in the lab or by mother nature.
Without chemicals, life itself would be impossible.

Some will look at the above paragraph and nod their heads in textbook agreement.  Others will recognize the above as a famous ad from a company.

----------


## angelatc

> Wait I add TSP to laundry and dishes. I thought it was a rinsing agent. Plus I thought TSP was in all cleaning products until it was banned recently over pollution.


That's what I originally thought, but then I read otherwise.  I don't know that you can get STPP at the hardware store.  You can get TSP there though.

There's a place on the internet called the chemical store that seems to be the go to place.  I would not trust the eBay sellers though.

----------


## amy31416

> That's what I originally thought, but then I read otherwise.  I don't know that you can get STPP at the hardware store.  You can get TSP there though.
> 
> There's a place on the internet called the chemical store that seems to be the go to place.  I would not trust the eBay sellers though.


The only things I've ever used TSP for are cleaning concrete and autoclaves, it's a pretty hardcore cleaning agent.

----------


## angelatc

> The only things I've ever used TSP for are cleaning concrete and autoclaves, it's a pretty hardcore cleaning agent.


Yeah.  I use it to clean walls before I paint.  Back when they took phosphates out of laundry detergent, which was way before the internet, I was told that adding TSP to the laundry soap would make it clean better again.  Living alone I didn't really have many laundry problems, but when baby boys entered my life that changed - they're filthy little creatures.

After an especially frustrating laundry day, I started reading on the internet to see if there was any truth to the "adding TSP" rumor I had heard, and found this:  http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/l...601018823.html - which I don't freaking understand, except for the part that means I should be adding STPP and not TSP.

When they took phosphates out of dishwasher detergent, the topic came up again.

----------


## tod evans

> That's what I originally thought, but then I read otherwise.  I don't know that you can get STPP at the hardware store.  You can get TSP there though.
> 
> There's a place on the internet called the chemical store that seems to be the go to place.  I would not trust the eBay sellers though.


Just go to Sherwin Williams....

----------


## Suzanimal

I've never heard of the asprin trick before. I thought this was a handy dandy info graphic.

----------


## CaptUSA

I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned...  When I bought my house a little more than a year ago, I got a EcoWasher system.



http://www.amazon.com/O3-Pure-Profes.../dp/B00AUWTYN2

It's not perfect, but I have only bought laundry detergent like twice since then.  Generally, the towels need a little detergent just for the smell.

But this system cleans clothes about as good as any detergent I've used and now I save the money.  It uses cold water and ozone.  That's it.  The electric draw is low, so it's cost-effective.  Something to think about if this topic hits home with you.

----------

