# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Eyewitness to Michael Brown Shooting Recounts His Friends Death in Ferguson, MO

## SeanTX

Here is an account of what happened to Mike Brown, from the man he was walking with. The whole thing was also supposedly seen by two people in a car, so it should be interesting if the stories all match up. Of course, those two may be "hood rats" too -- if so,  they won't be believed either.

 If true, it sounds like an execution for contempt of cop, and that the cop attacked first. Though I  guess of course most would say that when a cop attacks you should just immediately go limp and let him have his way -- comply or die. 

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitnes...oting-missouri




> snip
> 
> About 20 minutes before the shooting, Johnson said he saw Brown walking down the street and decided to catch up with him. The two walked and talked. That’s when Johnson says they saw the police car rolling up to them.
> 
> *The officer demanded that the two “get the f—k on the sidewalk*,” Johnson says. “His exact words were get the f—k on the sidewalk.”
> 
> After telling the officer that they were almost at their destination, Johnson’s house, the two continued walking. *But as they did, Johnson says the officer slammed his brakes and threw his truck in reverse, nearly hitting them.*
> 
> Now, in line with the officer’s driver’s side door, they could see the officer’s face. They heard him say something to the effect of, “what’d you say?” At the same time, *Johnson says the officer attempted to thrust his door open but the door slammed into Brown and bounced closed. Johnson says the officer, with his left hand, grabbed Brown by the neck.*
> ...

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## RonPaulIsGreat

These are things you have to deal with to get roads built, it sucks but there is no other way. Without police we would wander aimlessly about bumping into trees and eat bugs and grass. It's the roads, we need the roads. Government=rooooads.

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## AuH20

I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.

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## AuH20

http://abc7chicago.com/news/what-we-...-brown/252713/

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## Cleaner44

> I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.


What is not logical?  The cop has nothing to fear except a paid vacation while the department clears him of any wrongdoing.  He knows this is the result, we all do.  Even if the incident we filmed, he would still get the benefit of the doubt that he was in fear for his safety or some other bull$#@!.  The logic is that the cop has a 1 in 1000 chance of getting fired so the risk is almost non-existent.  

The only provocation a cop needs is a look of contempt from the citizen.  

Provocation is not a risk to the cops life.

The potential fallout has now resulted in looting and destruction, but has any of it come to the cops home?

Logic need not apply with cops and their guns.

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## AuH20

> What is not logical?  The cop has nothing to fear except a paid vacation while the department clears him of any wrongdoing.  He knows this is the result, we all do.  Even if the incident we filmed, he would still get the benefit of the doubt that he was in fear for his safety or some other bull$#@!.  The logic is that the cop has a 1 in 1000 chance of getting fired so the risk is almost non-existent.  
> 
> The only provocation a cop needs is a look of contempt from the citizen.  
> 
> Provocation is not a risk to the cops life.
> 
> The potential fallout has now resulted in looting and destruction, but has any of it come to the cops home?
> 
> Logic need not apply with cops and their guns.


I think that is a ridiculous insinuation. Cops generally don't unload their weapon without a reason, despite being sanctimonious $#@!s. I have a hard time believing that this police officer shot Brown for the selective reasons outlined by this "witness." It does not make any sense. You don't risk your job to play out homicidal fantasies in such a racially charged environment. Management will throw this guy to the wolves if he indeed is at fault, since they would want to absolve themselves of all blame. Now there is a slight chance that this cop could be a sociopath or a drug user, which could explain more but I'll be waiting for the investigation. One does not simply shoot a unarmed black teen with no provocation in broad daylight. Something occurred (which is believed to be an altercation escalated either by Brown or someone else) before the fatal moment.

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## pcosmar

> Cops generally don't unload their weapon without a reason, .


*BULL$#@!*







Just a few examples.. There are tons more.

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## AuH20

> *BULL$#@!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a few examples.. There are tons more.


The first photo, that truck was shot due to mistaken identity (not justifying it). The second was a result of the camper going for a knife (not justifying their use of lethal force). The third was an assassination in a war setting (completely overboard) . Do you really think that cops just shoot without a reason? Because it feels good? LOL Sure, they are making very poor judgements in those two instances, but they generally do not engage unless there is a reason. The lesson? Don't provoke unless you are willing to counter them.

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## brushfire

Another opportunity to post Ian MacKaye.




What a waste.  Let me guess what happens to the badge wearer...

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## thoughtomator

If this story is to believed, this is a first-degree murder, death-penalty level.

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## AuH20

> If this story is to believed, this is a first-degree murder, death-penalty level.


True. But that's exactly why I am skeptical. If you're going to do this premeditated, you drag this kid into an alleyway with no witnesses. In this day and age with mobile phones, it simply defies reason.

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## CaptUSA

> The first photo, that truck was shot due to mistaken identity (not justifying it). The second was a result of the camper going for a knife (not justifying their use of lethal force). The third was an assassination in a war setting (completely overboard) . Do you really think that cops just shoot without a reason? Because it feels good? LOL Sure, they are making very poor judgements in those two instances, but they generally do not engage unless there is a reason. The lesson? Don't provoke unless you are willing to counter them.


There may be "reasons", but let's not confuse that with justifications.



Officers can get pretty reckless in tense situations.  Even moreso, when they create the tense situation to begin with.

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## thoughtomator

> True. But that's exactly why I am skeptical. If you're going to do this premeditated, you drag this kid into an alleyway with no witnesses. In this day and age with mobile phones, it simply defies reason.


But the alleged murderer here is a cop in uniform, and the precedent has long been set that they are essentially immune from the law. If this cop also believed he was immune from the law, there would be no need to hide anything because he could be certain nothing would be done.

Who is a jury going to believe, a uniformed cop, or some street punk?

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## Anti Federalist

> *I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation*. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.


Really?

C'mon...you know better than that.

The provocation was "contempt of cop".

The perp was deemed guilty on scene.

The sentence of death was meted out for this most extreme of felonies.

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## AuH20

> But the alleged murderer here is a cop in uniform, and *the precedent has long been set that they are essentially immune from the law.* If this cop also believed he was immune from the law, there would be no need to hide anything because he could be certain nothing would be done.
> 
> Who is a jury going to believe, a uniformed cop, or some street punk?


I wouldn't go that far. Internal Affairs is usually very sensitive to incidents of this nature. Disciplining and outing a 'rogue cop' is often the best public relations move in which they can save face as a department.

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## AuH20

> Really?
> 
> C'mon...you know better than that.
> 
> The provocation was "contempt of cop".
> 
> The perp was deemed guilty on scene.
> 
> The sentence of death was meted out for this most extreme of felonies.


If they were dumb enough to grab his holster, you simply chalk this one up to Darwin. It's the same reason you don't stick your hands through the bars of the tiger enclosure at the local zoo. Then again we don't have all the details. At first glance, this story does logically fit unless the cop is mentally unstable.

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## Anti Federalist

You forgot just a few...

This took 30 seconds of "googling".

There are thousands more just like it, most have been posted here by me and others.

Anybody who suggests this is not a fairly common occurrence here in Soyuz AmeriKa, has not been paying close enough attention.


*Cop Shoots Unarmed Man 11 Times RIP Ernesto Duenez Jr* 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

*Arizona Cops Shoot in the back and Kill Unarmed Man whose hands were in the air* 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5Z_OFn5hs

*23 Cops Shoot Unarmed Car Occupants, And Each Other, 377 Times* 

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/23...#ixzz3AC75qUOa

*Shooting at unarmed man, cops instead hit 9 innocent bystanders*

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25...olice-gunfire/

*Woman killed during D.C. chase was shot five times from behind, autopsy shows*

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/us/miriam-carey-autopsy/




> *BULL$#@!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a few examples.. There are tons more.

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## kcchiefs6465

> If they were dumb enough to grab his holster, you simply chalk this one up to Darwin. It's the same reason you don't stick your hands through the bars of the tiger enclosure at the local zoo. Then again we don't have all the details. At first glance, this story does logically fit unless the cop is mentally unstable.

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## AuH20

> There may be "reasons", but let's not confuse that with justifications.
> 
> 
> 
> *Officers can get pretty reckless in tense situations.  Even moreso, when they create the tense situation to begin with.*


Society is becoming more and more increasingly violent & dysfunctional on plantation USA. In turn, the police have turned it up a notch, with nuance not being their strong point. We are witnessing a perfect storm of social degradation.

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## Anti Federalist

> If they were dumb enough to grab his holster, you simply chalk this one up to Darwin. It's the same reason you don't stick your hands through the bars of the tiger enclosure at the local zoo. Then again we don't have all the details. At first glance, *this story does logically fit unless the cop is mentally unstable*.


I'm assuming you missed a "not" in there.

Mentally unstable?

Possibly...I contend you cannot be a cop and live with yourself without being a little nuts.

But were all those other cops unstable as well?

The ones who freaked out and shot at people during the Dorner fiasco?

The ones who kill people's dogs for barking at them?

The ones who lit up Times Square and started indiscriminately blasting away at crowded city streets?

The ones who executed Miriam Carey in a hail of gunfire?

The ones who choked Eric Garner to death?

Or the ones who beat Kelly Thomas to death?

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## TheTexan

> I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.


Well said.  Cops don't just shoot people for no reason.




> “They didn’t even want to talk to him,”


I wouldn't either.  He's clearly a liar who simply wants to damage the good reputation of police.

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## AuH20

> I'm assuming you missed a "not" in there.
> 
> Mentally unstable?
> 
> Possibly...I contend you cannot be a cop and live with yourself without being a little nuts.
> 
> But were all those other cops unstable as well?
> 
> The ones who freaked out and shot at people during the Dorner fiasco?
> ...


We have close to a million law enforcement officers in this country. Yes, there are a sizable fraction of bad apples and corruption at the top, but to surmise that your average police officers can execute without provocation is a flimsy assumption at best. Such strategies are simply not conducive to a working relationship with the local communities or municipal governments. A department wants the revenue to flow. They don't want trouble or controversy.

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## aGameOfThrones

> I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.


they got you too...





btw, a cop shot 10 times at a kid who was on the ground(their orders) with hands behind his head killing him with 2 bullets with one passing through his hand into his head.

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## Anti Federalist

From the OP:

Johnson says he understands why the tension has boiled over into violence. As the protests seeking justice in Brown’s death have grown larger and more volatile, Johnson says he has joined them.

“There are two crowds. An older crowd that wants justice but there’s anger. Then it’s the younger crowd that wants revenge but there’s anger there, too,” Johnson said.  *“What do you expect when something is steadily occurring and its hurting the community and nobody is speaking out or doing anything about it. I feel their anger, I feel their disgust.”*

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## phill4paul

> We have close to a million law enforcement officers in this country. Yes, there are a sizable fraction of bad apples and corruption at the top, but to surmise that your average police officers can execute without provocation is a flimsy assumption at best. Such strategies are simply not conducive to a working relationship with the local communities or municipal governments. A department wants the revenue to flow. They don't want trouble or controversy.


  Sizable _fraction_? You haven't been paying attention.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...e-to-say-Graph

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## TheTexan

Even if that hood rat's story is true, I just see failure to comply, resisting arrest, assault on an officer, attempted escape... 8 shots may be a bit much but don't forget this was a very dangerous neighborhood he was in, and he was facing multiple possibly armed attackers, not to mention the two possibly armed people in the car.  This could have turned out a lot worse.

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## Anti Federalist

> We have close to a million law enforcement officers in this country. Yes, there are a sizable fraction of bad apples and corruption at the top, but to surmise that your average police officers can execute without provocation is a flimsy assumption at best. *Such strategies are simply not conducive to a working relationship with the local communities or municipal governments.* A department wants the revenue to flow. They don't want trouble or controversy.


You trollin' me bro?

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## AuH20

> they got you too...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw, a cop shot 10 times at a kid who was on the ground(their orders) with hands behind his head killing him with 2 bullets with one passing through his hand into his head.


I've received a nightstick into the back by a group of cops. I've gotten guns drawn on me by police. Police are largely arrogant pricks but I've encountered the inner city criminal element as well. There really isn't an innocent party in all this. They truly deserve each other.

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## AuH20

> You trollin' me bro?


Law enforcement is a racket. Revenue, pensions, overtime, salary. The path of least resistance is preferred. Sugar goes a lot farther than vinegar. There is no need to create controversies which will threaten the gravy train.

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## pcosmar

> Internal Affairs is usually very sensitive to incidents of this nature.


*
BULL$#@!* again.

Internal Affairs deals with covering political ass. Only rarely do they find any fault and rarer still is there ever prosecution for crimes.

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## Anti Federalist

> I've received a nightstick into the back by a group of cops. I've gotten guns drawn on me by police. Police are largely arrogant pricks but I've encountered the inner city criminal element as well. There really isn't an innocent party in all this. They truly deserve each other.


Nobody deserves to be shot eight times by a government enforcer for the "crime" of walking in the street.

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## Anti Federalist

> Law enforcement is a racket. Revenue, pensions, overtime, salary. The path of least resistance is preferred. Sugar goes a lot farther than vinegar. There is no need to create controversies which will threaten the gravy train.


They are cops...there *is* no controversy.

What they say is law.

What gives you reason to think that they give a flying $#@! about what you or I or anybody else thinks about them?

"$#@! off and move along".

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## TheTexan

> We have close to a million law enforcement officers in this country. Yes, there are a sizable fraction of bad apples and corruption at the top, but to surmise that your average police officers can execute without provocation is a flimsy assumption at best.


Ya, from an outside perspective one can get the impression that these sorts of incidents happen a lot, but actually in the vast vast majority of cases, policy was followed.  Its extraordinarily rare in instances like this that policy wasn't followed, in which case the officer is promptly and correctly disciplined (with punishments usually keeping in mind the officers' many years of honorable service)

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## Philhelm

> Nobody deserves to be shot eight times by a government enforcer for the "crime" of walking in the street.


Yeah, it's not like the kid was committing a real crime, like backing out of his driveway, angrily carving a watermelon, or being a hostage to armed robbers.

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## AuH20

> They are cops...there *is* no controversy.
> 
> What they say is law.
> *
> What gives you reason to think that they give a flying $#@! about what you or I or anybody else thinks about them?*
> 
> "$#@! off and move along".


Politically, the police union cares. Do you think they wield more leverage in CBA negotiations if they create an unsavory image? Who would that help? Police departments are motivated by one object, money. Everything else is just noise.

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## Anti Federalist

> Politically, the police union cares. Do you think they wield more leverage in CBA negotiations if they create an unsavory image? Who would that help? Police departments are motivated by one object, money. Everything else is just noise.


I disagree.

I contend that many, *many* individual cops are motivated by the desire to boss people around and bark orders that require immediate and unquestioning compliance with, failure to do so resulting in dis-proportionate application of extreme violence.

This attitude is magnified and multiplied by the "War on Us" military footing, training and self-reassuring rhetoric that all cops, from local to federal, are adopting.

They really do see themselves as being stuck behind enemy lines, and that each and every one of us is a "hostile" to be lit up at the very first sign of any trouble or back talk.

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## AuH20

> I disagree.
> 
> I contend that many, *many* individual cops are motivated by the desire to boss people around and bark orders that require immediate and unquestioning compliance with, failure to do so resulting in dis-proportionate application of extreme violence.


Yes, that's true in some instances, but don't discount the material compensation. The entire system is predicated on the ample legacy perks. Cops can retire like kings in many locales around the country. One may not be the brightest bulb in the bunch but can carve out a lucrative criminal justice career if they play their cards right.

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## Cleaner44

> We have close to a million law enforcement officers in this country. Yes, there are a sizable fraction of bad apples and corruption at the top, but to surmise that your average police officers can execute without provocation is a flimsy assumption at best. Such strategies are simply not conducive to a working relationship with the local communities or municipal governments. A department wants the revenue to flow. They don't want trouble or controversy.


You clearly aren't paying attention.  

LAPD Officers Violated Policy in Shooting on Delivery Women During Dorner Manhunt


*Police Officers Who Shot at Two Innocent Women 103 Times Won't Be Fired
*

Police Officers Who Shot at Two Innocent Women 103 Times Won't Be Fired

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## aGameOfThrones

I'm sure Patricia cook's killer had his reasons, because it makes no logical sense to shot at someone who is running away from you and not causing you any harm.

I'm sure James T. Williams'(deaf woodcaver) killer had his reasons, because it makes no logical sense to shot at someone who is walking and not doing anything wrong.

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## Warlord

FERGUSON, Mo. (KMOV.com) -- A pregnant protester claimed she was maced, thrown to the ground, and held at gunpoint by police during protests and riots in Ferguson.

http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage...270840911.html

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## kcchiefs6465

> I'm sure Patricia cook's killer had his reasons, because it makes no logical sense to shot at someone who is running away from you and not causing you any harm.
> 
> I'm sure James T. Williams'(deaf woodcaver) killer had his reasons, because it makes no logical sense to shot at someone who is walking and not doing anything wrong.


Were those two black men in urban environments?

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## aGameOfThrones

> Were those two black men in urban environments?


does Native American count?

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## kcchiefs6465

> does Native American count?


Well I don't know. Might knock a few points off of Au's give-a-$#@!-o-meter, though.

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## AuH20

> Well I don't know. Might knock a few points off of Au's give-a-$#@!-o-meter, though.


Humanity is $#@!ed up across the board. Some ethnicities have suffered worse cultural breakdowns across the board than others, but it seems that all are currently spiraling towards the same LCD. You could magically wish the police away tomorrow and humanity would still be terrorizing each other. Then we would need to conjure and sensationalize other excuses for the behavior instead of acknowledging the dysfunction of the species. Externalize the core problems. That seems to be a cottage industry for centuries.

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## bolil

> Humanity is $#@!ed up across the board. Some ethnicities have suffered worse cultural breakdowns across the board than others, but it seems that all are spiraling towards the same LCD. You could magically wish the police away tomorrow and humanity would still be terrorizing each other. Then we would need to conjure and sensationalize other excuses for the behavior instead of acknowledging the dysfunction of the species.


Except people have recourse when they are "terrorized" by other citizens.  When "terrorized" by a cop, there is no recourse.  There is only compliance or death.  You're "Humanity is $#@!ed up," is such a bull$#@! justification.  Humanity is $#@!ed up therefore cops shoot unarmed people.  Humanity is $#@!ed up therefore people molest children.  Did someone steal your car?  Well, humanities $#@!ed up therefore it's your fault.  I guess there is nothing to be done about any instance, you know, because "humanity is $#@!ed up."  We take issue with criminals, police is a secondary adjective.

Yeah, I get it, you're hard.  You look at the reality of the situation.  Cops can kill you, if you do anything to make them kill you it's your own damn fault.  Smart people, hard people understand this and adapt to the reality by giving cops immediate and unquestioning obedience, and anyone not as smart or hard as they might not deserve a few hot ones to the chest, but smart hard people like you understand why they got em.

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## AuH20

> Except people have recourse when they are "terrorized" by other citizens.  When "terrorized" by a cop, there is no recourse.  There is only compliance or death.  You're "Humanity is $#@!ed up," is such a bull$#@! justification.  Humanity is $#@!ed up therefore cops shoot unarmed people.  Humanity is $#@!ed up therefore people molest children.  Did someone steal your car?  Well, humanities $#@!ed up therefore it's your fault.  I guess there is nothing to be done about any instance, you know, because "humanity is $#@!ed up."  We take issue with criminals, police is a secondary adjective.
> 
> Yeah, I get it, you're hard.  You look at the reality of the situation.  Cops can kill you, if you do anything to make them kill you it's your own damn fault.  Smart people, hard people understand this and adapt to the reality by giving cops immediate and unquestioning obedience, and anyone not as smart or hard as they might not deserve a few hot ones to the chest, but smart hard people like you understand why they got em.


I have an honest question. Do you think our society would magically cure itself if there was no criminal justice system? Rape, murder and other assorted crimes would simply dwindle to nothing? This irrational, all-consuming hatred of the police belies a greater problem in that people don't want to see the forest for the trees. I largely hold incredible disdain for the police and consider them shysters of the highest order, but I am not oblivious to the prime reason why they have grown in stature. The promise of order is an enticing lure for many people, when the fabric of society is literally unraveling.

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## Cleaner44

> If they were dumb enough to grab his holster, you simply chalk this one up to Darwin. It's the same reason you don't stick your hands through the bars of the tiger enclosure at the local zoo. Then again we don't have all the details. At first glance, this story does logically fit unless the cop is mentally unstable.





> I have an honest question. Do you think our society would magically cure itself if there was no criminal justice system? Rape, murder and other assorted crimes would simply dwindle to nothing? This irrational, all-consuming hatred of the police belies a greater problem in that people don't want to see the forest for the trees. I largely hold incredible disdain for the police and consider them shysters of the highest order, but I am not oblivious to the prime reason why they have grown in stature. The promise of order is an enticing lure for many people, when the fabric of society is literally unraveling.


You aren't going to tell us that Michael Brown did this to himself are you?

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## AuH20

> You aren't going to tell us that Michael Brown did this to himself are you?


I don't know. If he grabbed the holster, he's not too bright. He could have been a victim of happenstance and a panicked officer.

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## pcosmar

> I have an honest question. Do you think our society would magically cure itself if there was no criminal justice system? .


What do you mean?

We have a criminal justice system.
I can think of little that is more criminal than our "Justice System".

What we need is something closer to an honest system of Justice.
Don't hold your breath.

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## AuH20

> What do you mean?
> 
> We have a criminal justice system.
> I can think of little that is more criminal than our "Justice System".
> 
> What we need is something closer to an honest system of Justice.
> Don't hold your breath.


My point being that the police/courts/prison system are symptoms of our general malaise as opposed to the prime protagonists that led to this precarious footing. Nature abhors a vacuum and something did indeed fill that vacuum. And specialization is part of it. Wanton, almost aimless pleasure seeking is another reason for the situation as well. People collectively dropped the ball and the professionals rushed in to fill the void. Now we can't get rid of these entrenched professionals who are hellbent at expanding their nests and protecting the authority that was granted to them.

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## Cleaner44

> I don't know. If he grabbed the holster, he's not too bright. He could have been a victim of happenstance and a panicked officer.


Let us presume that Michael Brown did grab the holster.  Would this justify shooting the unarmed and fleeing Michael Brown in the back?

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## AuH20

> Let us presume that Michael Brown did grab the holster.  Would this justify shooting the unarmed and fleeing Michael Brown in the back?


Certainly not. But situational awareness increases your survival odds.

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## Origanalist

> Really?
> 
> C'mon...you know better than that.
> 
> The provocation was "contempt of cop".
> 
> The perp was deemed guilty on scene.
> 
> The sentence of death was meted out for this most extreme of felonies.

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## Cleaner44

> Certainly not. But situational awareness increases your survival odds.


Very true.

Do you think that an 18 year old attacking a cop sitting in his car and attempting to take his gun from his holster, on what is most likely his far side hip, is a logical explanation for what started this?

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## AuH20

> Very true.
> 
> Do you think that an 18 year old attacking a cop sitting in his car and attempting to take his gun from his holster, on what is most likely his far side hip, is a logical explanation for what started this?


No. The cop was probably accosting them for a reason and chaos ensued. Someone (don't know who it was) probably did something dumb from that point and the officer probably felt his life was in danger. He responded with lethal force, which was excessive to say the least. What I do have a hard time believing is that officer shot Brown out of spite.

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## alucard13mm

The only thing I dont like is that it is racially charged again.

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## Philhelm

> The cop was probably accosting them for a reason and chaos ensued.


Teenager walking on road.




> Someone (don't know who it was) probably did something dumb...


Contempt of cop.




> from that point and the officer probably felt his life was in danger.


Always.




> He responded with lethal force, which was excessive to say the least.


Teenager walking on road.

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## ronpaulhawaii

Different guy




http://youtu.be/tfy5FiqzWHI

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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## CPUd

> 


Damn, those comments.

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## orenbus

> Damn, those comments.


My computer I'm on won't let me see the comments, what do they say?

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## phill4paul

> My computer I'm on won't let me see the comments, what do they say?


  Here's the first few. Not worth wasting my time to read anymore.




> LelouchOfBritannia1 day ago
> 
> and nothing of importance was lost﻿
> Reply  ·  
> 
> TheGreatMightyPoo11 day ago
> 
> looting small stores that will probably result in them shutting down is not the answer to a gunshot death
> $#@!ing monkeys﻿
> ...

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## AuH20

> Damn, those comments.


The real irony is this. In Chicago and other other urban locales, blacks are killing each other en masse. Why are they stereotyped? ROFL Meanwhile, a cop is involved in an incident and it's suddenly the act of Nazis that trumps the hundreds of thousands cases of black on black barbarism. Displacement much? There is no fixing this.


'They' are killing us everyday? No. The federal crime stats show otherwise.

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## trey4sports

> I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.


I agree. This doesn't sound right.

----------


## bolil

> I have an honest question. Do you think our society would magically cure itself if there was no criminal justice system? Rape, murder and other assorted crimes would simply dwindle to nothing? This irrational, all-consuming hatred of the police belies a greater problem in that people don't want to see the forest for the trees. I largely hold incredible disdain for the police and consider them shysters of the highest order, but I am not oblivious to the prime reason why they have grown in stature. The promise of order is an enticing lure for many people, when the fabric of society is literally unraveling.


It's not an honest question, it is a stupid one.  You really see it that way?  Either the police act with impunity or there is no criminal justice system?  They have grown in stature?  You mean they have grown in armament.  The only reason they have grown in armament and power is because they have grown in armament and power.  The forest is made up of trees.  Irrational hatred of police?  Do you ever read AF's threads?  Irrational it is not.  It is a very rational fear, which festers into hatred.  Why is it rational?  Well, ask Mike Brown, Kelly Thomas, Oscar Grant... or countless others.  You might need to go through Mrs. Cleo though cause all those people were murdered by police.  If Mike Brown was shot once I might consider something else like self defense on the part of the officer, but he was shot eight times.  Now these people are pissed off an looting, where else is their anger supposed to go?  Towards the well armed police that would simply gun them down?

----------


## AuH20

Morgue statistics are racist.

----------


## bolil

> Morgue statistics are racist.


So what?  That has nothing to do with a cop straight up killing a human being.  Where is the Dashcam footage?  WOuldn't that be released if it vindicated this jerk?  Yeah, and many black people live in areas where they are denied police protection and access to the courts by virtue of trade or geography.

I don't want eye witnesses, I want dashcam footage.  Then I want every second a civilian spends in their special costumes to be audio/video recorded.

----------


## AuH20

> So what?  That has nothing to do with a cop straight up killing a human being.  Where is the Dashcam footage?  WOuldn't that be released if it vindicated this jerk?  Yeah, and many black people live in areas where they are denied police protection and access to the courts by virtue of trade or geography.


That's still up for the debate. Secondly, the victimization angle grows old when it's conveniently a cop, who happens to be white. When was the last time that you saw a riot for the killing of a young man by a fellow member of the community? Where's the outrage on these frequent occasions?

I'm not absolving the police officer in question for being a horrible human being but you really wonder why there is selective rage reserved for certain acts of violence depending on the the skin & occupation of the perpetrator. Based on the extreme reaction, a casual observer would have thought that the police enter these areas like they are partaking in a big game hunt. But the crime stats prove otherwise. The man in blue, despite his power trip, is far from being the most dangerous predator in these particular neighborhoods.

----------


## ZENemy

How many people rioted when Kelly Thomas was killed?

----------


## AuH20

> How many people rioted when Kelly Thomas was killed?


None. Because they knew that all the crappy goods from China weren't going to bring him back.

----------


## bolil

> That's still up for the debate. Secondly, the victimization angle grows old when it's conveniently a cop, who happens to be white. When was the last time that you saw a riot for the killing of a young man by a fellow member of the community? Where's the outrage on these frequent occasions?
> 
> I'm not absolving the police officer in question for being a horrible human being but you really wonder why there is selective rage for certain acts of violence depending on the the skin & occupation of the perpetrator. Based on the extreme reaction, a casual observer would have thought that the police enter these areas like they are partaking in a big game hunt. But the crime stats prove otherwise. The man in blue, despite his power trip, is far from being the most dangerous predator in these particular neighborhoods.


No, the cop didn't kill Mike Brown?  I see, a semantic argument the bullets killed him, well not even the bullets, bleeding killed Mike Brown.  He died of natural causes.  Fellow members of the community are not paid to serve and protect.  Fellow members of the community don't have the backing of overwhelming military force.  Fellow members of the community are generally not beyond justice.

Again, humans are endowed with an innate sense of justice.  When someone whose very occupation is supposed to serve and protect guns someone down if offends that innate sense to a greater degree than when someone else, not given incredible power ostensibly to serve and protect, commits a similar act.  Let's say I am paid to protect you, and instead victimize you.  Wouldn't that sting worse than someone else not paid and sworn to protect you victimizing you? 

Furthermore, there is nothing the people can do when the police decide its killing time in the hood because the police have a far greater degree of violence at their command.  Also, fellow members of the community might commit acts of violence against each other, but they do not kidnap eachother and put eachother in cages nearly as much as the blue light gang.  Then, what happens in the jails and prisons that many are sent to for nonviolent crimes?  Rape, brutalisation, that kind of thing.

Selective rage?  No, they should just be filled with rage all the time.

----------


## AuH20

> No, the cop didn't kill Mike Brown?  I see, a semantic argument the bullets killed him, well not even the bullets, bleeding killed Mike Brown.  He died of natural causes.  Fellow members of the community are not paid to serve and protect.  Fellow members of the community don't have the backing of overwhelming military force.  Fellow members of the community are generally not beyond justice.


He did kill the man but we still don't know what specifically precipitated the shooting. 




> Again, humans are endowed with an innate sense of justice.  When someone whose very occupation is supposed to serve and protect guns someone down if offends that innate sense to a greater degree than when someone else, not given incredible power ostensibly to serve and protect, commits a similar act.  Let's say I am paid to protect you, and instead victimize you.  Wouldn't that sting worse than someone else not paid and sworn to protect you victimizing you? 
> 
> Furthermore, there is nothing the people can do when the police decide its killing time in the hood because the police have a far greater degree of violence at their command.  Also, fellow members of the community might commit acts of violence against each other, but they do not kidnap eachother and put eachother in cages nearly as much as the blue light gang.  Then, what happens in the jails and prisons that many are sent to for nonviolent crimes?  Rape, brutalisation, that kind of thing.
> 
> Selective rage?  No, they should just be filled with rage all the time.


They aren't there to serve or protect. See _Castle Rock v. Gonzales._ They are there to babysit (the unfortunate product when a community surrenders all responsibility & autonomy) and generate revenue in a target rich environment (do you see regular police patrols in Indian neighborhoods?).

----------


## bolil

> He did kill the man but we still don't know what specifically precipitated the shooting. 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't there to serve or protect. See _Castle Rock v. Gonzales._ They are there to babysit (the unfortunate product when one surrenders all responsibility) and generate revenue in a target rich environment.


Ostensibly they are.  That is what is bandied about by police depts, politishits, and the media.  Don't you think the people in hoods know what the cops are really about?  And you wonder at their "selective rage."  A member of an organization that violently targets us for money now has killed one of us.

We don't know because no dashcam footage is being released, which would be released if it vindicated the cop... actually, this police department doesn't even use them, why is that?

"The Ferguson Police Department reportedly has body cameras for its cops, so it shouldn't be difficult to get to the truth. Except, according to police, they haven't started using the body cameras they purchased yet,"

hxxp://reason.com/blog/2014/08/12/ferguson-police-chief-says-no-dashcams-i

Why?  Not enough time to train the animals how to clip a camera on a lapel?  All evidence points to a murder- 8 shots being the most convincing.

Indian neighborhoods?  Where I live they tend to be farther from expressways thus less valuable regarding the lucrative drug trade.

----------


## twomp

> I don't know. If he grabbed the holster, he's not too bright. He could have been a victim of happenstance and a panicked officer.


So it is more plausible to you for a black kid walking along the street to get confronted by a cop and for no reason, grabs at his holster than a cop killing someone for no reason when SEVERAL people here have posted incidents where the cops have done exactly that. Please show us some more instances of black kids foolishly grabbing at cops holster and ending up dead for it? I'd like to see how often that occurs for you to be so convinced of it.

----------


## LibForestPaul

> I have a hard time believing a police officer shot someone 8 times with no provocation. Especially these days in a racially charged neighborhood. This simply does not pass the logic test, when you consider the potential fallout. I think we need more eyewitness testimony or further corroboration.


He cussed, went nuts, but did not say niggah. He'll be ok. Officer Safety $1

----------


## Anti Federalist

> 


Be *all* of us some day...

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Be *all* of us some day...



it's not like he was a 13yr old kid walking with a toy gun, or even a guy sleeping in his car with a disassembled airsoft gun. he was running away.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Well said.  Cops don't just shoot people for no reason.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't either.  He's clearly a liar who simply wants to damage the good reputation of police.


damn...you're good...i bow to thee sir...bravo bravo...

sarcasm elite of the first order..

----------


## Anti Federalist

> How many people rioted when Kelly Thomas was killed?


None.

And the cops that did it, skated, and are back at work.

Say what you want, I'll wager, if enough hell is raised, that somebody will at least lose their job over this.

----------


## limequat

> None.
> 
> And the cops that did it, skated, and are back at work.
> 
> Say what you want, I'll wager, if enough hell is raised, that somebody will at least lose their job over this.


I think so.  They brought in the reverend to pin this issue on racism.  Nevermind we don't the name let alone the _race_ of the murderer.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I think so.  They brought in the reverend to pin this issue on racism.  Nevermind we don't the name let alone the _race_ of the murderer.


Yeah, I know...

Strange how this one devolved so *quickly* into:

"Racist white devil police killing us!" vs. "Rioting ****** savages!"

*sigh*

----------


## Austrian Econ Disciple

> Society is becoming more and more increasingly violent & dysfunctional on plantation USA. In turn, the police have turned it up a notch, with nuance not being their strong point. We are witnessing a perfect storm of social degradation.


BS. Crime statistics have been falling for the last 20 years. This fairy tale of 'increasingly violent and dysfunctional society' needs to be killed. What we are witnessing is the consequences of 1) hiring veterans 2) foreign wars coming home to roost 3) Increasingly paranoid centralized Government militarizing local police forces with weaponry and ideology (MIAC for instance). It seems you've overloaded on your fairy tales for the day (Law & Order, violent society, etc.).

----------


## AuH20

> BS. Crime statistics have been falling for the last 20 years. This fairy tale of 'increasingly violent and dysfunctional society' needs to be killed. What we are witnessing is the consequences of 1) hiring veterans 2) foreign wars coming home to roost 3) Increasingly paranoid centralized Government militarizing local police forces with weaponry and ideology (MIAC for instance). It seems you've overloaded on your fairy tales for the day (Law & Order, violent society, etc.).


We currently have more inmates than total teachers in this country. And this startling slide is largely a family & community issue that is further amplified by our barren consumer culture. The wedlock rates are soaring through the roof, even among whites. People forget that a child's personality completely forms by the very early age of 7. We're talking about a very tiny window in which to nurture and guide the future citizens. That's where we are losing the battle, especially with the government running interference. In the homes. Like the old saying goes. Garbage in, garbage out.

----------


## Antischism

This is what happens when you systematically oppress poor people and minorities, and lord over them with a state-sanctioned domestic army of thugs. When the "justice system" is rigged against you, the only option left for people is to fight back in any way they can.

----------


## hardrightedge

This guy has been all over the news...
The first one to take their story to the media is usually full of $#@!...

Not buying it....

We will know a lot more once the medical examiners report is released...

----------


## Henry Rogue

> http://abc7chicago.com/news/what-we-...-brown/252713/


I found this through your link


> A woman who says she witnessed the shooting of Michael Brown by a Ferguson, Mo., police officer said the 18-year-old had his hands up when he was killed.
> 
> The witness said Brown, 18, had turned around and was facing police with his hands in the air when the officer fired. She said a stray bullet from the police officer's gun hit a neighbor's home, and she was surprised no one else was injured.
> 
> "I saw him turn around with his arms up in the air and they shot him in his face and chest and he went down unarmed," Piaget Crenshaw said.
> 
> Brown's mother, Lesley McSpadden, called the shooting of her son murder, and said she hopes to see the police officer who shot him fired and that he should be put in jail.
> 
> The two spoke to ABC News after police said at a news conference that they "cannot say" how many times the teen was struck when an officer shot him after an altercation, but the young man was unarmed.
> ...


http://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-mis...ry?id=24920358

----------


## AuH20

> I found this through your linkhttp://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-mis...ry?id=24920358


If true, then I speculate  this isn't the first time he did this. Then again, we should reserve judgment until we get all facts. Both sides have an agenda to protect. That's why I'm holding off on lynching this guy.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

I find it implausible that Brown reached for the anonymous officer's holster/gun in an offensive manner.  So Brown's next move is to grab the anonymous officer's gun and--and do what?  Shoot the anonymous officer?  Run with the gun?  Empty the gun?  

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the anonymous officer started reaching for his gun, and Brown instinctively reacted.  Brown possibly reached for the anonymous officer's arm in the holster area.  Maybe Brown tried to keep the anonymous officer from pulling the gun.

The idea that Brown tried to grab the officer's gun is possible, but it's really more implausible.  Probably more like a defensive move to keep the gun from being pulled or to keep the anonymous officer from using it.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

Contempt Of Cop. Resist and Die. Run and Die. Talk and Die. Sleep and Die. Walk and Die.

----------


## AuH20

> I find it implausible that Brown reached for the anonymous officer's holster/gun in an offensive manner.  So Brown's next move is to grab the anonymous officer's gun and--and do what?  Shoot the anonymous officer?  Run with the gun?  Empty the gun?  
> 
> I'd bet dollars to donuts that the anonymous officer started reaching for his gun, and Brown instinctively reacted.  Brown possibly reached for the anonymous officer's arm in the holster area.  Maybe Brown tried to keep the anonymous officer from pulling the gun.
> 
> The idea that Brown tried to grab the officer's gun is possible, but it's really more implausible.  Probably more like a defensive move to keep the gun from being pulled.


Or perhaps he grabbed his holster or waist area inadvertently in order to create separation. The witness alluded to the fact that Brown was in close contact with the officer and attempting to pry him off.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> I find it implausible that Brown reached for the anonymous officer's holster/gun in an offensive manner.  So Brown's next move is to grab the anonymous officer's gun and--and do what?  Shoot the anonymous officer?  Run with the gun?  Empty the gun?  
> 
> I'd bet dollars to donuts that the anonymous officer started reaching for his gun, and Brown instinctively reacted.  Brown possibly reached for the anonymous officer's arm in the holster area.  Maybe Brown tried to keep the anonymous officer from pulling the gun.
> 
> The idea that Brown tried to grab the officer's gun is possible, but it's really more implausible.  Probably more like a defensive move to keep the gun from being pulled or to keep the anonymous officer from using it.


Like this fella?

----------


## SeanTX

"Stop reaching for my sidearm!" is something cops are taught to say, along with "stop resisting!" as they beat or struggle with somebody.

There was a vid posted here a while back of a guy who was totally passive while being beaten, and the whole time the cop was yelling for him to stop reaching for his pistol, when on video it was shown that he wasn't reaching for anything at all . And in this case there is no video or audio, perfect -- all we have to go on is the officer's version of what happened. 

Of course, a cop would never lie and say that someone was reaching for his sidearm when that person wasn't  ...

----------


## Henry Rogue

I remember reading a post once, where an off duty cop playing darts or pool told a guy that was laughing at him, that he was a cop and could shoot the guy and get away with it, then shot the guy. Anyone remember that story?

----------


## bolil

> The real irony is this. In Chicago and other other urban locales, blacks are killing each other en masse. Why are they stereotyped? ROFL Meanwhile, a cop is involved in an incident and it's suddenly the act of Nazis that trumps the hundreds of thousands cases of black on black barbarism. Displacement much? There is no fixing this.
> 
> 
> 'They' are killing us everyday? No. The federal crime stats show otherwise.


Now this might be hard for a collectivist such as yourself to understand but those people killing each other in Chicago, they are actually just people.  Now why would people kill each other?  There is no fixing you.  You would justify injustice with injustice, with a broad brush, over swathes of the population.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Now this might be hard for a collectivist such as yourself to understand but those people killing each other in Chicago, they are actually just people.  Now why would people kill each other?  There is no fixing you.  You would justify injustice with injustice, with a broad brush, over swathes of the population.


You think AuH2O is a collectivist?  lololol

Seriously?

----------


## bolil

> Now this might be hard for a collectivist such as yourself to understand but those people killing each other in Chicago, they are actually just people.  Now why would people kill each other?  There is no fixing you.  You would justify injustice with injustice, with a broad brush, over swathes of the population.


If you cannot see the difference between a civilian killing a civilian (where justice can atleast be sought) and a cop killing a civilian (where everyones knows it wont be) then you are broken.

----------


## bolil

> You think AuH2O is a collectivist?  lololol
> 
> Seriously?


I think you are too.  In your judgements of other people, taking some and judging all based upon a shared adjective... absolutely.  Shallow, too.  Black this and that.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I think you are too.  In your judgements of other people, taking some and judging all based upon a shared adjective... absolutely.  Shallow, too.  Black this and that.


Not to mention she finds it kosher to rob all to finance certain things she wants simply because a majority has said this or that.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I think you are too.  In your judgements of other people, taking some and judging all based upon a shared adjective... absolutely.  Shallow, too.  Black this and that.


Like how you just judged me?  lolol

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Not to mention she finds it kosher to rob all to finance certain things she wants simply because a majority has said this or that.


Not so much.  But, is this your way of saying that if one isn't an anarchist, they are a collectivist?  Be sure and tell Ron Paul that, because he's not an anarchist either.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Not so much.  But, is this your way of saying that if one isn't an anarchist, they are a collectivist?  Be sure and tell Ron Paul that, because he's not an anarchist either.


That hurts.

Here I am making simple observations and then you go and take it to the next level.

----------


## CCTelander

> Contempt Of Cop. Resist and Die. Run and Die. Talk and Die. Sleep and Die. Walk and Die.



Basically, if you're a mundane, just $#@!ing die already.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> That hurts.
> 
> Here I am making simple observations and then you go and take it to the next level.


So sorry.  I can't help it if your idea of simple is on a lower level than my idea of simple.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> So sorry.  I can't help it if your idea of simple is on a lower level than my idea of simple.


 Come on now. You don't mean that. 

You're so hateful, lately. You'd think somebody's children didn't fund your Social Security the way you talk. You don't have to worry about that, I promise. A large majority is on your side!

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I remember reading a post once, where an off duty cop playing darts or pool told a guy that was laughing at him, that he was a cop and could shoot the guy and get away with it, then shot the guy. Anyone remember that story?


*“I’m a cop, I can do whatever I want to”*

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011...arts-comments/

An off-duty cop in California has been charged with murder after he reportedly shot a fellow bar patron during a game of darts.

Reports indicate that Dayle William Long, a 10-year department veteran of the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department, yelled “I’m a cop, I can do whatever I want to” before pulling the trigger.

The Daily Mail has more:

    An altercation allegedly broke out after the police officer told one of the friends ‘I’m better at darts than you are’, Chris Hull, 39, told Patch.com.

    ‘My buddy says, “Aw, you suck at darts”. (The man) says, “That’s why I’m a cop, I can do whatever I want to do”.’

    Hull said his friend asked; ‘Really, you can do anything?’

    The police officer then pulled out his gun, Hull claimed and after the group repeatedly asked him to put it away he ‘pops three rounds into my friend Sam’.

----------


## Austrian Econ Disciple

> Basically, if you're a mundane, just $#@!ing die already.


It's more primitive than that - if you're not of the ruling class, your life is merely at the mercy of their Knights. No different $#@! than the 'olden' days. If you look real close you won't be able to notice any distinction (even the familial lineage $#@! is being perpetuated...I can't stand the Clinton's and Bush's!).

----------


## Henry Rogue

> *“I’m a cop, I can do whatever I want to”*
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011...arts-comments/
> 
> An off-duty cop in California has been charged with murder after he reportedly shot a fellow bar patron during a game of darts.
> 
> Reports indicate that Dayle William Long, a 10-year department veteran of the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department, yelled “I’m a cop, I can do whatever I want to” before pulling the trigger.
> 
> The Daily Mail has more:
> ...


That's it, thanks. It puts into question the notion that cops won't execute a person without physical provocation.  If one applies the logic that a cop will act with reason for fear that his funding maybe cut. One must also apply reason to the victim's actions. Why would an unarmed man push a cop back into his vehicle obviously knowing that the cop was armed and probably knowing that the cop wouldn't hesitate to blow him away.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> That's it, thanks. It puts into question the notion that cops won't execute a person without physical provocation.  If one applies the logic that a cop will act with reason for fear that his funding maybe cut. *One must also apply reason to the victim's actions.* Why would an unarmed man push a cop back into his vehicle obviously knowing that the cop was armed and probably knowing that the cop wouldn't hesitate to blow him away.


I have, and leaving my "anti-cop bias" at the door, any reasonable person would tend to believe Dorian Johnson's account of the events.

There was no "struggle", no fight, no "reaching for weapons".

An unarmed, fleeing, innocent, Mike Brown was blown away for jay-walking and contempt of cop, period.

----------


## AuH20

> I have, and leaving my "anti-cop bias" at the door, any reasonable person would tend to believe Dorian Johnson's account of the events.
> 
> *There was no "struggle", no fight, no "reaching for weapons".
> 
> An unarmed, fleeing, innocent, Mike Brown was blown away for jay-walking and contempt of cop, period.*


But would a cop be that dumb in the era of the smartphone? Even Grandma Moses has a smartphone with a megapixel camera these days. White cop in broad daylight in a black neighborhood on a summer day making a huge scene and then proceeding to gun down a black teen for sheer amusement? If true, this may be the most mentally defective police officer in the mainland United States.

----------


## phill4paul

> But would a cop be that dumb in the era of the smartphone? Even Grandma Moses has a smartphone with a megapixel camera these days.


  They do it every day. And they get away with it despite video evidence. 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...torney-says-no

  You really need to start reading these forums.

----------


## AuH20

> They do it every day. And they get away with it despite video evidence. 
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...torney-says-no
> 
>   You really need to start reading these forums.


True, but usually in controlled conditions. Did you see how many people were on that residential street during the shooting? Dozens in broad daylight. He may as well have announced it beforehand on the squad car's PA system if that was his motive. That's why I'm skeptical. I'm thinking something out of the ordinary happened and the cop lost it since they are generally skittish.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> But would a cop be that dumb in the era of the smartphone? Even Grandma Moses has a smartphone with a megapixel camera these days. White cop in broad daylight in a black neighborhood on a summer day making a huge scene and then proceeding to gun down a black teen for sheer amusement? If true, this may be the most mentally defective police officer in the mainland United States.


They do it all the time.

They killed Eric Garner in broad daylight on a crowded NYC street with an illegal chokehold.

It was not "amusement".

It was *punishment* meted out for the most grievous felony you can commit while in the presence of state enforcers:

*Contempt of Cop.*

That is the end result of the militarization and Circular Force Continuum training.

To put it bluntly, you use whatever force is needed to make sure that any Mundane you run across knows who the boss is at all times.

That includes killing them, if needed.

----------


## SeanTX

> I have, and leaving my "anti-cop bias" at the door, any reasonable person would tend to believe Dorian Johnson's account of the events.
> 
> There was no "struggle", no fight, no "reaching for weapons".
> 
> An unarmed, fleeing, innocent, Mike Brown was blown away for jay-walking and contempt of cop, period.


Now they are saying the cop has facial injuries from the encounter. If it's true that the cop backed up to them and then flung the door open hitting Mr. Brown, it's entirely possible and understandable that Brown might have instinctively reacted by pushing back against the door (and that could be the source of the officer's facial injuries). Brown pushing back against the door that he was assaulted with may be what they were referring to when they claimed  "Brown pushed the officer back into his car." 

And that could have sent the officer into a rage that ended with a mag dump into Mr. Brown. It's pretty telling that they won't release the preliminary autopsy results -- obviously he was ventilated many times and they don't want an angry public to know the extent of that. They damn well know how many shell casings were found, but haven't released that either (a reporter on KMOX said a dozen casings were recovered).

----------


## acptulsa

> That's it, thanks. It puts into question the notion that cops won't execute a person without physical provocation.  If one applies the logic that a cop will act with reason for fear that his funding maybe cut. One must also apply reason to the victim's actions. Why would an unarmed man push a cop back into his vehicle obviously knowing that the cop was armed and probably knowing that the cop wouldn't hesitate to blow him away.


..



> Thank God we have such fine officers out there keeping us safe from murders and stuff ... another source says the woman who was shot at was the cop's daughter. Both are now on paid leave, of course ...
> 
> http://www.news9.com/story/26209441/...ed-to-homicide





> NEWS
> 
> Two Tulsa Police Officers Facing Charges Related To Homicide
> Posted: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 6:34 AM EDT Updated: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:08 AM EDT
> 
> Two Tulsa police officers have been arrested following the shooting death of a 19-year old Tuesday night.
> 
> Tulsa police say the victim, Jeremy Lake, was gunned down in a neighborhood near downtown Tulsa by Officer Shannon Kepler. It's not clear if Kepler was on or off-duty at the time.
> 
> ...


Lake's funeral was today.  No riots.  Of course, _this_ psychotic murderer is in jail...

----------


## AuH20

> They do it all the time.
> *
> They killed Eric Garner in broad daylight on a crowded NYC street with an illegal chokehold.
> *
> It was not "amusement".
> 
> It was *punishment* meted out for the most grievous felony you can commit while in the presence of state enforcers:
> 
> *Contempt of Cop.*
> ...


Garner was a walking heart attack per the autopsy. They jumped on him due to his sheer size. With that said, they should have never touched him since he was only selling cigs. He wasn't exactly committing grand larceny. The Garner incident and this case which led to a mag dump are two completely different issues.

----------


## phill4paul

> True, but in controlled conditions. Did you see how many people were on that residential street during the shooting? Dozens in broad daylight. He may as well have announced it beforehand on the squad car's PA system if that was his motive. That's why I'm skeptical. I'm thinking something out of the ordinary happened and the cop lost it since they are generally skittish.


  Additional reading:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search....rchid=12695775

Here's another good read....

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...3-Police-Abuse

  Happens everyday, anytime, anywhere. Nothing "out of the ordinary" happened. It may have been nothing more than him having a bad day. The wifey didn't give him a blow job. They were foreclosing on his house. And then someone "lipped off" to his sense of ego breaking the final straw. He killed a man because he was able to and in most cases individuals in his caste get away with  it.

----------


## AuH20

> Now they are saying the cop has facial injuries from the encounter. If it's true that the cop backed up to them and then flung the door open hitting Mr. Brown, it's entirely possible and understandable that Brown might have instinctively reacted by pushing back against the door (and that could be the source of the officer's facial injuries). Brown pushing back against the door that he was assaulted with may be what they were referring to when they claimed  "Brown pushed the officer back into his car." 
> 
> And that could have sent the officer into a rage that ended with a mag dump into Mr. Brown. It's pretty telling that they won't release the preliminary autopsy results -- obviously he was ventilated many times and they don't want an angry public to know the extent of that. They damn well know how many shell casings were found, but haven't released that either (a reporter on KMOX said a dozen casings were recovered).


Exactly. Something went down and this crazy cop lost it. You just don't hate kill someone with 8 bullets without some provocation or prior miscommunication.

----------


## pcosmar

> If true, this may be the most mentally defective police officer in the mainland United States.


Naw,, 
Just one of the many.

The story related of Dayle William Long,,who was eventually convicted.. happened because he actually thought he could get away with it.
They often do..

Several cases have been recorded on phones of video,, and the guilty cop still walks.
Why do you think there are so many cases of cops taking phones?

----------


## surf

> Exactly. Something went down and this crazy cop lost it. You just don't hate kill someone with 8 bullets without some provocation or prior miscommunication.


most of us don't just hate-kill someone as a general rule. it's not in my makeup.

i can't see how this can be defended, reasoned, etc. that said, i'll wait for some more information before calling for the cop to be placed with the general population in prison, but he should be in jail now.

someone here wrote a few weeks back about how people vs the gov't was going to be the civil rights focus soon, and kudos to Rand for taking a stand for us w/his work with Sen Boooker.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Garner was a walking heart attack per the autopsy. They jumped on him due to his sheer size. With that said, they should have never touched him since he was only selling cigs. He wasn't exactly committing grand larceny. The Garner incident and this case which led to a mag dump are two completely different issues.


At the time of the incident, he wasn't doing anything wrong.

They choked him with an illegal chokehold, that killed him.

They are the same in respect to the point you are arguing, that police are unlikely to murder a mundane in broad daylight.

I contend that you are wrong in that assessment, and multiple incidents similar to this back me up.

A cop will kill you, me or anybody else, in broad daylight, in front of a million witnesses and cameras, and not give a $#@! about it.

----------


## AuH20

> At the time of the incident, he wasn't doing anything wrong.
> 
> They choked him with an illegal chokehold, that killed him.
> 
> They are the same in respect to the point you are arguing, that police are unlikely to murder a mundane in broad daylight.
> 
> I contend that you are wrong in that assessment, and multiple incidents similar to this back me up.
> 
> *A cop will kill you, me or anybody else, in broad daylight, in front of a million witnesses and cameras, and not give a $#@! about it.*


And cost his municipality or city millions in the process? Look, we both agree on cops being an exclusive gang that takes liberties but they aren't all mindless automatons with no leash. Perception is very important, especially if they saddle a struggling municipality with a hefty settlement. This type of stuff isn't good for revenue seekers, which are what the police generally are.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Exactly. Something went down and this crazy cop lost it. You just don't hate kill someone with 8 bullets without some provocation or prior miscommunication.


For the record, I never said that there was no communication or contact between Brown and this still unnamed cop.

There was, obviously, some sort of contact, where Brown showed "contempt of cop".

And it got him dead.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> *And cost his municipality millions in the process?* Look, we both agree on cops being a gang that takes liberties but they aren't exactly mindless automatons with no leash. Perception is very important, especially if they saddle a struggling municipality with a hefty settlement.


Happens every single day across the _Soyuz_.

Happens so often people here start griping about all the "bad cop" and "Dead Dog Daily" stories I, and others, post.

What does the cop care?

He won't get sued personally, once a "Cop-Land" gets a toe hold in a community, it's as hard as pancreatic cancer to get rid of, so his job is safe, the insurance will pay the settlement, and if they need more money, well $#@!, time to run a few drug raids and fill the asset forfeiture coffers.

----------


## AuH20

This is so true. Ask and ye shall receive. By the time they're done, the government is going to be bleeding from your ears!

----------


## Anti Federalist

I'm sure this has been posted already, but deserves a re-post.

*To Provoke and Suppress: The Military Occupation of Ferguson, Missouri*

William Norman Grigg	

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...uson-missouri/



“Bring it, you f*****g animals! Bring it!” taunted a tonsured thug in the employ of the Ferguson, Missouri Police Department during protests over the police killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown. According to Dorian Johnson, who witnessed the killing from just a few feet away, the incident began when a still-unidentified officer hurled a similar taunt at the two of them from a patrol car.

“Get the f**k on the sidewalk!” the officer reportedly snarled at the young men from his patrol vehicle. Johnson told the officer that they had nearly arrived at his home, which was their destination. The officer then slammed on his brakes, threw his vehicle into reverse — nearly hitting the pedestrians, and growled, “What’d you say?”

According to Johnson’s account, the cop began to exit his vehicle, but his door slammed into Brown. At roughly the same time, the uniformed assailant grabbed the terrified 18-year-old by his neck. As Brown tried to escape, Johnson testifies, the officer repeatedly sneered, “I’m gonna shoot you.”

The first of several gunshots rang out a few seconds later. Brown and Johnson turned and fled. The officer fired a second shot at the fleeing victims, hitting Brown, who fell to the ground with his hands in the air, pleading: “I don’t have a gun — stop shooting!” The assailant fired several more shots, killing the unarmed teenager outside an apartment complex. His body was left about 35 feet from the vehicle, surrounded by empty casings from the officer’s gun. Brown was unarmed.

*Police officials are peddling the claim that Brown supposedly “assaulted” his killer and attempted to grab the officer’s gun. Eyewitnesses, particularly Johnson, dispute that claim. Even if this were true, however, Johnson’s account would indicate that Brown acted in self-defense, seeking to disarm someone who had threatened to shoot him without cause. There is no dispute that Brown was unarmed and attempting to surrender when he was fatally shot.*

A crowd that gathered at the scene of the killing grew into a protest that extended through Saturday evening, and a protest march the following day. More than 100 officers from 15 police agencies converged on the neighborhood to confront the protesters. One officer described the scene as a “war zone.” A group of violent people group hived off from the protests and attacked local businesses, including a QuickTrip convenience store. Predictably, the riot police who had assembled to “restore order” by suppressing the protests did nothing to protect private property. That role was carried out by local businessmen bearing arms in their own defense.

Many black residents of Ferguson regard themselves as living under a military occupation, subject to the whims of violent, uniformed strangers who can detain, abduct, or kill them on a whim. The reported behavior of the officer who killed Michael Brown — and the documented behavior of the officer who was caught on film taunting the protesters — would tend to validate that perception.

----------


## AuH20

Courtesy of Communist Bob Avakian. They are distributing these in Ferguson.

----------


## trey4sports

> Courtesy of Communist Bob Avakian. They are distributing these in Ferguson.



The state is trampling your rights huh? Well it only makes sense to then make the state all-powerful...

----------


## phill4paul

> *And cost his municipality or city millions in the process?* Look, we both agree on cops being an exclusive gang that takes liberties but they aren't all mindless automatons with no leash. Perception is very important, especially if they saddle a struggling municipality with a hefty settlement. *This type of stuff isn't good for revenue seekers, which are what the police generally are.*


  The cops don't care. They are protected from legal consequences by qualified immunity. If more tax dollars are needed for "pay out" then taxes will simply be raised.  The institution will still get its revenue. By hook and crook.

----------


## AuH20

> The state is trampling your rights huh? Well it only makes sense to then make the state all-powerful...


Haven't you heard? It's the capitalist system that makes men bad. Funny, that I haven't seen capitalism in this country for my entire adult life.

----------


## Anti Federalist

So, I'm supposed to stop agitating against police abuse and the prison state because an aging communist from the 1960's says the same thing?





> Courtesy of Communist Bob Avakian. They are distributing these in Ferguson.

----------


## AuH20

> So, I'm supposed to stop agitating against police abuse and the prison state because an aging communist from the 1960's says the same thing?


Nope, but be careful what you wish for. One day it's the police and tomorrow it's those with incomes over 75k. This is asymmetrical warfare that we're dealing with. There are many fronts and various different threats that can develop as this crumbling plays out.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Nope, but be careful what you wish for. One day it's the police and tomorrow it's those with incomes over 75k. This is asymmetrical warfare that we're dealing with. There are many fronts and various different threats that can develop as this crumbling plays out.


With that, you'll get no argument from me...I have no doubt that any "popular revolution" in the _Soyuz_ today, would rapidly devolve into a Jacobin style bloodbath.

That's why I wish for peaceful secession before anything else.

Or perhaps a Soviet style collapse.

----------


## JK/SEA

How come the Oathkeepers don't make a statement...or show up in Ferguson?...

seems these 'cops' don't give a $#@! about the Oath they took...so, where is Oathkeepers in this?

----------


## AuH20

> How come the Oathkeepers don't make a statement...or show up in Ferguson?...
> 
> seems these 'cops' don't give a $#@! about the Oath they took...so, where is Oathkeepers in this?


Oathkeepers are probably waiting to see this come full circle in terms of actual details and perhaps some video as opposed to the 'he said, she said' circus we've been privy too.

----------


## NIU Students for Liberty

> And cost his municipality or city millions in the process? Look, we both agree on cops being an exclusive gang that takes liberties but they aren't all mindless automatons with no leash. Perception is very important, especially if they saddle a struggling municipality with a hefty settlement. This type of stuff isn't good for revenue seekers, which are what the police generally are.


Why would an individual cop care about the tax payers?  Is it the cop's money that's at stake?  They know that if an incident like this were to occur, at worst they'll get a paid vacation provided by the city/state and of course the police union.

----------


## libertyjam

I can see from all the comments on the little skirmish in Ferguson a little history lesson is in order.   In no particular order: 

1967
Beginning in April and continuing through the rest of the year, 159 race riots erupted across the United States. The first occurred in Cleveland, but by far the most devastating were those that took place in Newark, New Jersey, and Detroit, Michigan. The former took twenty-six lives and injured fifteen hundred; the latter resulted in forty deaths and two thousand injuries. Large swaths of ghetto in both places went up in flames. Television showed burning buildings and looted stores, with both National Guardsmen and paratroopers on the scenes.
http://www.answers.com/topic/riots-urban-of-1967

1964-68
Major race riots have occurred in the United States at least since the Harlem Riots of 1948, but the 60's surpassed anything previously experienced. The five day Watts riot in August, 1965 saw 34 people die and a thousand injured; and the 1966 Detroit riot, 43 deaths. Following Martin Luther King's assassination in 1968, rioting broke out in over 120 cities including Chicago and Washington. We still had miles to go before we could sleep.
http://scholar.library.miami.edu/sixties/urbanRiots.php




> The urban ghetto riots that swept across the country during the 1960s were all blamed on society. This view was formalized in a much-hailed report on urban violence by a national "blue ribbon" commission headed by Governor Otto Kerner of Illinois.
> 
> President Lyndon Johnson likewise blamed urban violence on social conditions, saying: "All of us know what those conditions are: ignorance, discrimination, slums, poverty, disease, not enough jobs."
> 
> This sweeping and heady vision made it unnecessary to stoop to anything so mundane as hard facts  which would have included the fact that urban riots struck most often and most violently when and where this collective guilt vision prevailed.
> 
> Southern cities, where at that time discrimination and poverty were more pronounced than in the rest of the country, were not nearly as often or as hard-hit as cities outside the South.
> 
> Detroit, which suffered the most deadly of all the ghetto riots of the 1960s, with 43 deaths, had an unemployment rate among blacks of 3.4 percent  which was lower than the national unemployment rate among whites.
> ...


http://www.creators.com/conservative...the-1960s.html

In Newark in 1967, the riot of several days  there was touched off when an African-American cab driver named John  Smith was arrested for allegedly tailgating and driving the wrong way on  a one-way street. Here was how Smith described it in court at his bail  hearing:There was no resistance on my part. That was  a cover story by the police. They caved in my ribs, busted a hernia,  and put a hole in my head. ... After I got into the precinct six or  seven other officers along with the two who arrested me kicked and  stomped me in the ribs and back. They then took me to a cell and put my  head over the toilet bowl. While my head was over the toilet bowl, I was  struck on the back of the head with a revolver. I was also being cursed  while they were beating me. An arresting officer in the cell block  said, "This baby is mine."Unlike many other cases of this  kind, local civil rights leaders saw him very soon after he was arrested  and could confirm that he had been seriously beaten.
http://thebluevoice.blogspot.com/200...s-1964-68.html

In '68 or '67, in Wellston, a township a just a little south of Ferguson, Mo., during the summer a lot of the local residents recall the police took to mounting a tripod mounted M-60 on the roof of the police station during the threat of rioting and when martial law was being declared in several other northeaster Us cities.  No citation, just personal recollection. 

The scope of urban violence in the United States in the form of riots during the 1960s is pretty amazing. Here's a partial chronology (sources at the end of this post):

    1964: July, Harlem riot; followed by similar disorderly protests that same summer in Brooklyn, Rochester NY, Paterson NJ, Jersey City, Elizabeth, Philadelphia and San Francisco.

    1965: Watts riot, Los Angeles; Chicago riot

    1966: Rioting in 20 cities, including San Francisco, Oakland, Cleveland, Chicago, Omaha

    1967: Newark and Detroit riots; riots of less intensity in over 20 cities including Toledo OH, Grand Rapids MI, Plainfield NJ, Milwaukee WI; riots spread to Southern cities of Jackson, Nashville and Houston

    Feb, 1968: Orangeburg Massacre in South Carolina, in which police and National Guard open fire on black students, killing three and wounding 27.

    April, 1968: James Earl Ray assassinates Martin Luther King, Jr.; hell breaks loose, with riots in over 100 cities constituting the largest urban uprising in American history

Part of what gets lost in a superficial look at these events is that they are many-dimensional.
http://thebluevoice.blogspot.com/200...s-1964-68.html

On Sunday evening, July 22, the Detroit Police Vice Squad officers raided an after hours blind pig, an unlicensed bar on the corner of 12th Street and Clairmount Avenue in the center of the citys oldest and poorest black neighborhood.  A party at the bar was in progress to celebrate the return of two black servicemen from Vietnam.  Although officers had expected a few patrons would be inside they found and arrested all 82 people attending the party.  As they were being transported from the scene by police, a crowd of about 200 people gathered outside agitated by rumors that police used excessive force during the 12th Street bar raid.

At 5:30 p.m., twelve hours into the riot, Mayor Cavanaugh requested that the National Guard be brought into Detroit to stop the violence.  Meanwhile firefighters abandoned an area roughly 100 square blocks in size around 12th Street as the fires raged out of control.  The first troops arrived in the city at 7:00 p.m. and 45 minutes later the Mayor instituted a curfew between 9:00 p.m and 5:00 a.m.  Seven minutes into the curfew a 16-year-old African American boy was the first gunshot victim.

At 11:00 p.m. a 45-year-old white man was seen looting a store and was shot by the store owner.  Before dawn, four other store looters were shot, one while struggling with the police.  As the night wore on, there were reports of deaths by snipers and complaints of sniper fire.  Many of these reports were from policemen who were unable to determine the origins of the gunfire.

At 2:00 a.m. Monday morning, 800 State Police Officers and 8,000 National Guardsmen were ordered to the city by Michigan Governor George Romney.  They were later augmented by 4,700 paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne Division ordered in by President Lyndon Johnson.  With their arrival the looting and arson began to end but there were continuous reports of sniper fire.  The sniper attacks stopped only with the end of the violence on Thursday, July 27th.  The Mayor lifted the curfew on Tuesday, August 1 and the National Guardsmen left the city.  

In the five days and nights of violence 33 blacks and 10 whites were killed, 1,189 were injured and over 7,200 people were arrested.  Approximately 2,500 stores were looted and the total property damage was estimated at about $32 million.  Until the riots following the death of Dr. Martin Luther King in April 1968, the Detroit Race Riot stood as the largest urban uprising of the 1960s.
http://www.blackpast.org/aah/detroit-race-riot-1967



http://detroitnews.mycapture.com/myc...tegoryID=71178



http://www.detroits-great-rebellion....rlem-riot.html


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ghts/flash.htm

----------


## AuH20

> Why would an individual cop care about the tax payers?  Is it the cop's money that's at stake?  They know that if an incident like this were to occur, at worst they'll get a paid vacation provided by the city/state and of course the police union.


Very simple. Demotion. Shut off from OT. It's similar to what happens to criminal teachers who are rendered to isolation. You can easily get buried within the PD for being an expensive $#@!up. Secondly, police officials don't like media exposure for obvious reasons.

----------


## phill4paul

> Very simple. Demotion. Shut off from OT. You can easily get buried within the PD for being an expensive $#@!up.


  Except $#@! ups aren't buried. They are reinstated with back pay and eventually get an promotion. 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news...-is-reinstated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_C...l_K-9_incident

  Damn the "will of the people."

----------


## JK/SEA

> Very simple. Demotion. Shut off from OT. It's similar to what happens to teachers who commit crimes. You can easily get buried within the PD for being an expensive $#@!up. Secondly, police officials don't like media exposure for obvious reasons.


ya know something AuH20?...i respect your opinions, and i think you're a smart guy...but this post of yours is pure bull$#@!.

----------


## phill4paul

> ya know something AuH20?...i respect your opinions, and i think you're a smart guy...but this post of yours is pure bull$#@!.


  Yeah, pretty much.

----------


## AuH20

> ya know something AuH20?...i respect your opinions, and i think you're a smart guy...but this post is pure bull$#@!.


I'm just relaying what I have heard. If you become a liability in the department, you will be punished. Keeping the department running is the primary objective. Now the department could be crooked as hell but they will sacrifice so-called 'rogue cops' from time to time, to preserve the status quo.

----------


## phill4paul

> I'm just relaying what I have heard. If you become a liability in the department, you will be punished. Keeping the department running is the primary objective. Now the department could be crooked as hell but they will sacrifice so-called 'rogue cops' from time to time, to preserve the status quo.


  Were have you "heard" this? Because there are numerous accounts of cops that have a history of abuse that continue on without repercussions.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I'm just relaying what I have heard. If you become a liability in the department, you will be punished. Keeping the department running is the primary objective. Now the department could be crooked as hell but they will sacrifice so-called 'rogue cops' from time to time, to preserve the status quo.


lets keep this in perspective. I think we can agree that we're not talking about a bunch of bakers screwing up a loaf of bread...

----------


## acptulsa

> This is so true. Ask and ye shall receive. By the time they're done, the government is going to be bleeding from your ears!





> 


*WANTS LESS GOVERNMENT*





> 


*BEGS FOR MORE GOVERMENT*

----------


## Lucille

Anonymous Releases Police Audio From Day Of Mike Brown Murder
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...e-brown-murder




> ...These files compiled in this video contains audio of St. Louis police dispatch from the date of August 9th 2014, the day Mike Brown was murdered by a Ferguson PD officer.
> 
> We have released these tapes to the public so as they are able to get a sense of the atmosphere the moments before and the hours after Mike Brown was shot.
> 
> These raw audio files have been compiled and long quiet moments have been cut down. Time stamps are available within the video.
> 
> ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DISPATCH AUDIO TAPES, AUGUST 9TH 2014 11:05 AM - 6:05 PM, INCIDENT IS REPORTED AS "CROWD CONTROL PROBLEM"
> 
> *AT 12:05PM, NO SHOOTING MENTIONED UNTIL IT IS CALLED IN TO DISPATCH BY WITNESS. FERGUSON PD DENIES IT KNEW ANYTHING AT THAT TIME. NO EMS WAS CALLED.*
> ...

----------


## tod evans

> Were have you "heard" this? Because there are numerous accounts of cops that have a history of abuse that continue on without repercussions.


A "rogue" kop isn't one with a history of abuse...

A "rogue" bucks the status-quo.....

----------


## AuH20

> Were have you "heard" this? Because there are numerous accounts of cops that have a history of abuse that continue on without repercussions.


Nassau County PD. There are many infractions racked up but the identities are never released publicly. Nevertheless, the most egregious offenders get the shaft in terms of diminished OT opps, assignments and potential rank upgrades. I don't know where this meme is being created but revenue generation is the number one priority of the police department as opposed to gunning down mundanes. Dollars and cents. Secondly, the police department is very much like the mafia in that it thrives off fear. You don't see the mob leaving bodies in it's wake because such tactics draw too much attention to oneself. It's easier to simply scare others into compliance.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Nassau County PD. There are many infractions racked up but the identities are never released publicly. Nevertheless, the most egregious offenders get the shaft in terms of diminished OT opps, assignments and potential rank upgrades. I don't know where this meme is being created but revenue generation is the number one priority of the police department as opposed to gunning down mundanes. Dollars and cents. Secondly, the police department is very much like the mafia in that it thrives off fear. You don't see the mob leaving bodies in it's wake because such tactics draw too much attention to oneself. It's easier to simply scare others into compliance.



many expect the mafia to be lawless, many expect the police to be lawful.

----------


## phill4paul

> Nassau County PD. There are many infractions racked up but the identities are never released publicly. Nevertheless, the most egregious offenders get the shaft in terms of diminished OT opps, assignments and potential rank upgrades. I don't know where this meme is being created but revenue generation is the number one priority of the police department as opposed to gunning down mundanes. Dollars and cents. Secondly, the police department is very much like the mafia in that it thrives off fear. You don't see the mob leaving bodies in it's wake because such tactics draw too much attention to oneself. It's easier to simply scare others into compliance.


  So one example of a culling of the enemy is your example? After people had had too much to bear? I can cite dozens of examples wherein police abuse came to a head like a pustulant boil only after a series of reported and condoned abuse. More so than you can come up with a few corrective actions. Care to take the challenge?

----------


## tod evans

> many expect the mafia to be lawless, many expect the police to be lawful.


The mafia in Capones day had more ethics than today's kops...

----------


## AuH20

> So one example of a culling of the enemy is your example. After people had had too much to bear? I can cite dozens of examples wherein police abuse came to a head like a pustulant boil only after a series of reported and condoned abuse. More so than you can come up with a few corrective actions. Care to take the challenge?


I'm relaying what I have directly learned about my department. And I surmise this philosophy is commonplace across the U.S. Obviously, there are outliers which you have chronicled. Simply put. There is no money in gunning down mundanes. It's bad PR. It's expensive. It can bring advocacy groups and federal watch orgs down your throat. With that said, police officers do operate with a mentality that they will use excessive force in order to ensure that they will arrive home.

----------


## Henry Rogue

And probably bruises around his neck from being choked as witnessed. 


> Now they are saying the cop has facial injuries from the encounter. If it's true that the cop backed up to them and then flung the door open hitting Mr. Brown, it's entirely possible and understandable that Brown might have instinctively reacted by pushing back against the door (and that could be the source of the officer's facial injuries). Brown pushing back against the door that he was assaulted with may be what they were referring to when they claimed  "Brown pushed the officer back into his car." 
> 
> And that could have sent the officer into a rage that ended with a mag dump into Mr. Brown. It's pretty telling that they won't release the preliminary autopsy results -- obviously he was ventilated many times and they don't want an angry public to know the extent of that. They damn well know how many shell casings were found, but haven't released that either (a reporter on KMOX said a dozen casings were recovered).

----------


## AuH20

Just came down on reddit. Note. Completely uncorroborated at the moment. 




> Source is a dispatcher...said that the cop who shot Mike Brown Jr was admitted to the ER and supposedly broke his jaw. One of his eyes also is supposedly nearly swollen shut. She also said that there were casings from a second gun found on the scene, which is why you are hearing ranges of how many shot the cop fired.
> Again, uncorroborated, so could only be rumor! /u/jandrewweb

----------


## AuH20

NAACP has just contacted the UN about the Michael Brown Shooting. Useful idiots.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...United-Nations

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Another witness. This one supports my suspiciion that the second shot hit him in the back as he ran for his life

----------


## phill4paul

> Just came down on reddit. Note. Completely uncorroborated at the moment.


  My goodness. And the police would not have immediately put out this information?  Lol. Some might call it uncorroborated. I call it F.U.D.

----------


## phill4paul

> I'm relaying what I have directly learned about my department. And I surmise this philosophy is commonplace across the U.S. Obviously, there are outliers which you have chronicled. Simply put. There is no money in gunning down mundanes. It's bad PR. It's expensive. It can bring advocacy groups and federal watch orgs down your throat. With that said, police officers do operate with a mentality that they will use excessive force in order to ensure that they will arrive home.


 _Your_ department? Ahh. They aren't _your_ department. They are _their_ department. Take that as fact. And regardless of any individual incident the funds will keep flowing. Simply put.

----------


## Origanalist

> Another witness. This one supports my suspiciion that the second shot hit him in the back as he ran for his life


That girl better go into a black community witness protection program.

----------


## invisible

There's something I'm failing to understand about this whole situation: *Where are our political representatives?*  So far, we only seem to have heard from a mayor in MO (can't remember offhand which city), al sharpton, and the ACLU.  Where's jesse jackson?  obomba?  splc?  Rand?  Ron?  Amash?  Massie?  Chuck Baldwin?  Nader?  Kucinich?  
What happened to Rand's minority outreach effort?  He could be scoring bigtime points by speaking out on what's going on here and underscoring the 2nd Amendment.  Why are all of our political leaders (across the political spectrum) so silent on this thing?  WTF!  This whole situation is such a huge fail on so many levels.

----------


## AuH20

> There's something I'm failing to understand about this whole situation: *Where are our political representatives?*  So far, we only seem to have heard from a mayor in MO (can't remember offhand which city), al sharpton, and the ACLU.  Where's jesse jackson?  obomba?  splc?  Rand?  Ron?  Amash?  Massie?  Chuck Baldwin?  Nader?  Kucinich?  
> What happened to Rand's minority outreach effort?  He could be scoring bigtime points by speaking out on what's going on here and underscoring the 2nd Amendment.  Why are all of our political leaders (across the political spectrum) so silent on this thing?  WTF!  This whole situation is such a huge fail on so many levels.


No one knows what the hell happened. I think that's the issue. No one wants to step into a political bear trap. The kid is a dead but it's not exactly clear what happened.

----------


## limequat

So where is this new video?

----------


## phill4paul

> There's something I'm failing to understand about this whole situation: *Where are our political representatives?*  So far, we only seem to have heard from a mayor in MO (can't remember offhand which city), al sharpton, and the ACLU.  Where's jesse jackson?  obomba?  splc?  Rand?  Ron?  Amash?  Massie?  Chuck Baldwin?  Nader?  Kucinich?  
> What happened to Rand's minority outreach effort?  He could be scoring bigtime points by speaking out on what's going on here and underscoring the 2nd Amendment.  Why are all of our political leaders (across the political spectrum) so silent on this thing?  WTF!  This whole situation is such a huge fail on so many levels.


  Ummm...Sharptons there. He smells blood. And money.

----------


## phill4paul

Final warning to clear the street....

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...ideos/59166942

  "Won't be no police brutality when the revolution come."

  Using LRAD.

----------


## phill4paul

Firing rubber bullets and gas into peaceful, hands raised, crowd.....

----------


## AuH20

Loose clothing and Molotov cocktails. What could go wrong?

----------


## aGameOfThrones

but did they get a permit before they went protesting?

----------


## invisible

I haven't seen anything about this posted yet, reporters from both Washington Post and Huffington Post arrested:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...on-193914.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5676829.html

No article from Washington Post yet, apparently.  I'm not even going to quote from the two above links, doing so would destroy context, the entire articles have to be read.  Worth the clicks.

----------


## Michael Landon

Where is the Bundy Militia in this attempt to fight back against the rising Police State?

- ML

----------


## invisible

Ok, apparently I wasn't the only one wondering why politicians have been so silent.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/13/ju...-from-ferguson

According to the above link, someone from the Washington Post had asked that very same question.  It must have gotten Amash's attention, because he did make a statement (on twitter), which was quoted.  The link also contains the video from the reporters who got arrested.

Couldn't copy and paste from the graphic containing Amash's statement, so I'll have to type it here manually:



> Images and reports out of Ferguson are frightening.  Is this a war zone or a US city?  Gov't escalates tensions with military equipment and tactics.

----------


## AuH20

https://twitter.com/RayDowns/status/499770540362448898

----------


## aGameOfThrones

Cop: MOVE OR YOU'RE NEXT------> https://vine.co/v/MYwwrHDw5pX/embed/simple?audio=1

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I haven't seen anything about this posted yet, reporters from both Washington Post and Huffington Post arrested:
> http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...on-193914.html
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5676829.html
> 
> No article from Washington Post yet, apparently.  I'm not even going to quote from the two above links, doing so would destroy context, the entire articles have to be read.  Worth the clicks.


I will.

From the first:




> "He was illegally instructed to stop taking video of officers. Then he followed officers' instructions to leave a McDonald's — and after contradictory instructions on how to exit, he was slammed against a soda machine and then handcuffed," Baron said in a statement. "That behavior was wholly unwarranted and an assault on the freedom of the press to cover the news. The physical risk to Wesley himself is obvious and outrageous."
> 
> "After being placed in a holding cell, he was released with no charges and no explanation," Baron continued. "He was denied information about the names and badge numbers of those who arrested him. We are relieved that Wesley is going to be OK. We are appalled by the conduct of police officers involved."


<snip>




> In an interview with MSNBC following his release, Reilly called the police officers' mentality "extremely disturbing."
> 
> "It was madness," Reilly said. "[The officers] asked us to begin packing up our stuff. Evidently I was not moving quickly enough for their liking, at which point I was given a countdown, I was told I had 45 seconds, 30 seconds, pack up all my stuff and leave, at which point the officer in question… held me back, grabbed my things and shoved them into my bag, and basically he then arrested me. He hancuffed me... he used his finger to put a pressure point on my neck."
> 
> "He would not tell me what I was under arrest for…he was in complete SWAT gear," Reilly continued. "The most frustrating thing…I repeatedly asked over a dozen times for his name or ID number was never given it... The worst part was he slammed my head against the glass purposely on the way out of the McDonalds then sarcastically apologized for it."
> 
> "It was just a terrible experience," he continued. "I recognize I’m in sort of a place of privilege here both as a journalist and as a white person frankly, in that evidently the police chief made the decision to not hold us. ... *The mentality of the officers was extremely disturbing. They essentially acted as a military force.*"


Well, ain't that an astute observation there, Gomer.

Jesus Christ, where are these people from?

Comments on that Politico piece are a perfect example of why we can't have nice things.

Moving on...




> Witness To Michael Brown Shooting: Police 'Showed No Kind Of Remorse'
> 
> Tiffany Mitchell, a woman who says she witnessed a police officer shoot and kill Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, shared her story with CNN on Wednesday evening. She claimed to have seen an officer wrestling with Brown, and as Brown tried to run away, "the police get out of his vehicle and he follows behind him, shooting," she said.


One of these $#@! cops is gonna twitch at the trigger of his MP5 or M4 and light a bunch of folks up.

And *then* the $#@! will hit the fan.

----------


## aGameOfThrones



----------


## Mani

> I will.
> 
> From the first:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> ...


At least he realizes he's in a privileged position.  

I would hope people start to care at least once a white journalist gets his face planted into a window.  But apparently it wasn't hard enough to make him bleed, just enough to sting and make the cop giggle.  Will Boobus realize the police are out of control when their white clean cut suit and tie journalists are being knocked around?

----------


## Anti Federalist

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...hing-fck-yall/

----------


## Anti Federalist

> At least he realizes he's in a privileged position.  
> 
> I would hope people start to care at least once a white journalist gets his face planted into a window.  But apparently it wasn't hard enough to make him bleed, just enough to sting and make the cop giggle.  Will Boobus realize the police are out of control when their white clean cut suit and tie journalists are being knocked around?


No, they don't care.

We've documented, over the years, the thousands of cases of white folks being shot, beat and raided by cops.

It's like that scene in _Idiocracy_, where they all stand around cheering and hooting as the cops blow up the lawyer's car.

----------


## TheTexan

http://www.businessinsider.com/polic...#ixzz3ALSM5OMf




> They have short-barreled 5.56-mm rifles based on the military M4 carbine, with scopes that can accurately hit a target out to 500 meters. On their side they carry pistols. On their front, over their body armor, they carry at least four to six extra magazines, loaded with 30 rounds each.


Six extra magazines seems a bit much to me, but my mother did always tell me, if you're going to do a job, at least _do it well_.  Good for them, taking their jobs so seriously like that.

----------


## Mani

> No, they don't care.
> 
> We've documented, over the years, the thousands of cases of white folks being shot, beat and raided by cops.
> 
> It's like that scene in _Idiocracy_, where they all stand around cheering and hooting as the cops blow up the lawyer's car.


Yes the beat white people, but they were homeless or cray cray or egotistical and had it coming!  Not suit and tie truth seeking journalists!!!  


ya...you're probably right.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> The mafia in Capones day had more ethics than today's kops...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6XBZMuQ2wE

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Where is the Bundy Militia in this attempt to fight back against the rising Police State?
> 
> - ML


But the clowns looted, burned, and destroy their very own community, businesses, and shops, instead of addressing those that violated their Constitutional rights... you know, the government and their militarized mafioso hitmen aka law enforcement.

----------


## LibForestPaul

> "It was just a terrible experience," he continued. "I recognize Im in sort of a place of privilege here both as a *journalist* and as a _white_ person frankly, in that evidently the police chief made the decision to not hold us. ... The mentality of the officers was extremely disturbing. They essentially acted as a military force."


Deserves whats coming.

----------


## green73

*PHOTOS RELEASED of Suspect Michael Brown ROBBING STORE Before Shooting*

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...fore-shooting/

----------


## AuH20

> *PHOTOS RELEASED of Suspect Michael Brown ROBBING STORE Before Shooting*
> 
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...fore-shooting/


Dorian Johnson implicated as secondary suspect. You couldn't make this stuff up. Kid deserves an academy award.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Dorian Johnson implicated as secondary suspect. You couldn't make this stuff up. Kid deserves an academy award.


here's more good news for you.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ed-in-Ferguson

----------


## AuH20

You know you could have told us this earlier..... 




> *Dorian Johnson’s lawyer confirms that his client told FBI cigars were taken from store before Michael Brown shooting*

----------


## jllundqu

Well there goes this kid's bull$#@! 'eyewitness account' of what happened.

----------


## AuH20

> Well there goes this kid's bull$#@! 'eyewitness account' of what happened.


_The cop just came up on us man. We wuz doing nuttin......_

And I really thought the kid was convincing to. He has a future in theater.

----------


## moostraks

> You know you could have told us this earlier.....


So, finally read through this thread this morning. You seem quite gleeful over this. Is it your opinion that police should execute shoplifters now rather than having this go to court? 

BTW outstanding job of p.r. for the police you are accomplishing with this thread. I am fully convinced after what I have experienced and the evidence you have put forth that I should bend over and lick their boots when they command. It is my fault they have a god complex and demand to be worshipped.

----------


## SeanTX

The QT shoplifting/robbery is OLD news -- I remember when I first read about this on late Saturday afternoon it was mentioned that Brown *may* have been involved in something like that. That's why that QT was burned to the ground so quickly, people (wrongly) focused their anger on it because it may have all started there. 

The police should have released more info about that sooner, it might have put some things in perspective and kept things from blowing up. It looks like their habit of dragging their feet on releasing info may have bit them in the ass this time  --although usually they are very quick to release info that will put them in a more favorable light. 

So, it probably didn't start over jaywalking and resulting contempt of cop. Although, we've seen plenty of times where police have escalated a simple thing like that to the point of killing someone, so you can't blame people for being suspicious of a cop's version of the story when these things happen. Especially when they want to act like secret police and refuse to release even the most basic information. 

 If the officer was specifically stopping him because he was a robbery suspect, they should have come out and said that right away, and made public the QT surveillance pics, etc. They didn't do that, they dragged their feet and refused to release info, and that left lots of room for speculation. In any event, even if he did commit a robbery, some things about the actual shooting may still be questionable.

Anyway, absolutely no excuse for the police not being able to come out right away and say what the reason for the initial stop was.

----------


## thoughtomator

> So, it probably didn't start over jaywalking and resulting contempt of cop. Although, we've seen plenty of times where police have escalated a simple thing like that to the point of killing someone, so you can't blame people for being suspicious of a cop's version of the story when these things happen.


The problem is worse than that. The failure to come forward with evidence promptly combined with the longstanding, commonplace practice of police perjury AND falsification of official records, means that nothing the cops say at this point can be trusted.

Hell, I'm not sure any "Darren Wilson" even exists, at this point. They almost certainly scrubbed the Internet of any info about him before releasing the name.

----------


## SeanTX

> The problem is worse than that. The failure to come forward with evidence promptly combined with the longstanding, commonplace practice of police perjury AND falsification of official records, means that nothing the cops say at this point can be trusted.


Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, though I may not have done it very well. They've been caught so many times in the past outright lying and telling half-truths that I think it's normal and healthy not to take them at their word. That and just outright withholding information, as if they are secret police. That does nothing but create mistrust and skepticism. 

Here a couple of days ago a police SUV was involved in a traffic "accident", and a young woman was killed. The police said that somebody ran a red light, but that they couldn't say who until an investigation was complete. Bull$#@!, they know who ran the red light -- a vehicle going in one direction has a green light, the other a red light. Not that hard to figure out. They just don't want to come right out and admit that a recklessly driving cop killed a young woman. Better to drag it all out until it's old news.

----------


## SeanTX

just saw this on another forum :  " @AdamSerwer: Ferguson police chief Jackson just said '*the initial contact with Brown was not related to the robbery'*."

"@AndrewKirell
“*They were walking down the street, blocking traffic*,” chief’s explanation for why Wilson engaged Michael Brown."

"Retweeted by Operation Ferguson
grasswire @grasswire  ·  6m

Jackson: *Officer who shot Brown did not know about reported robbery; his stop of Brown, shooting were not connected to it*"

----------


## phill4paul

> just saw this on another forum :  " @AdamSerwer: Ferguson police chief Jackson just said '*the initial contact with Brown was not related to the robbery'*."
> 
> "@AndrewKirell
> *They were walking down the street, blocking traffic*, chiefs explanation for why Wilson engaged Michael Brown."


  +rep....




> Ferguson cop who shot Michael Brown *didn't know* he was a suspect
> 
>   he police chief in the St. Louis suburb where an unarmed black teenager was fatally shot by police says the officer didn't know the teen was a robbery suspect at the time of the shooting.
> 
> Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson earlier Friday released documents alleging 18-year-old Michael Brown had been suspected of stealing a $48.99 box of cigars from a convenience store in a "strong-arm" robbery shortly before he was killed.
> 
> During an afternoon news conference Jackson said the robbery "was not related to the initial contact" between the officer and Brown on Saturday.
> 
> He declined to elaborate as to why the officer stopped Brown and his friend, citing the ongoing investigation into the shooting.


http://politics.suntimes.com/article...08152014-225pm

  So, as AF has pointed out, may have been nothing more than "contempt of cop." Events just keep turning.

----------


## AuH20

Jesus Christ.....Read the tag he's got on.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Jesus Christ.....Read the tag he's got on.


Shameful.

----------


## SeanTX

> Shameful.


Yes, it is . When you trash the victim, you can justify anything that is done to him or her. Same thing happened with the woman the cops in DC killed (Mariam Carey I think her name was) . I don't want to start up that Trayvon nonsense again, but a lot of stuff was brought out about him that had nothing at all to do with the shooting. 

The same strategy will be used against Mike Brown, and people will lose track of what the big picture in all of this is.

----------


## tommyrp12

Police identify officer, allege teen robbed store




> Police Chief Thomas Jackson said the officer did not know the teen was a robbery suspect at the time of the shooting and stopped Michael Brown and a companion "because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic."

----------


## Warlord

> Police identify officer, allege teen robbed store


Kelly Thomas did it to himself.

----------


## Danke

Listen to Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, not what is being reported about what he said.  You can see from the Q&A with reporters it is not clear that Wilson did not know they were suspects.  Just that he didn't know that *initially. *

----------


## phill4paul

> Listen to Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, not what is being reported about what he said.  You can see from the Q&A with reporters it is not clear that Wilson did not know they were suspects.  Just that he didn't know that *initially. *


  It's been what? Five days now. Shouldn't the cops have released a concise timeline of events by now?  Either they are incompetent or criminal and damned if I can tell which one in this case. Perhaps, both. SMDH.

----------


## phill4paul

> Jesus Christ.....Read the tag he's got on.


  What the hell am I looking at here? A web page with photos over layed? What site?

----------


## enhanced_deficit

On a side note, has House of Reps released any videos or response after this police shooting?


*Entire House Of Reps Gives Standing Ovation To Cops After Killing Unarmed Mother*

----------


## orenbus



----------


## enhanced_deficit

> On a side note, has House of Reps released any videos or response after this police shooting?
> 
> 
> *Entire House Of Reps Gives Standing Ovation To Cops After Killing Unarmed Mother*



Libertty Eagle, you seem fluent in communicating through -ve reps.  Can you also articulate your opinion here  why this post showing double standard is unrelated to OP news and worthy of  disapproval ?


#doublestandard, #policestate,  #iraqifreedom

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Libertty Eagle, you seem fluent in communicating through -ve reps.  Can you also articulate your opinion here  why this post showing double standard is unrelated to OP news and worthy of  disapproval ?


I recommend Reading 101.  Look at the thread title to get a clear idea of what this thread is about.  Your off topic post was an attempt to derail.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> I recommend Reading 101.  Look at the thread title to get a clear idea of what this thread is about.  Your off topic post was an attempt to derail.


In a discussion about an unarmed black teen shot by police a mention of House Reps' standing ovation for police after it shot an unarmed black mother near their offices would derail exactly what  (other than bringing up a not-so-subtle point that US politicians have celeberated police shootings of unarmed "suspected" Americans in the not so distant past and maybe that sent the wrong message)?

PS: If after reading this exaplanation you regret giving a -rep, you should give a +rep. Otherwise,  no further action requested.

----------


## Ender

> Yes, it is . When you trash the victim, you can justify anything that is done to him or her. Same thing happened with the woman the cops in DC killed (Mariam Carey I think her name was) . I don't want to start up that Trayvon nonsense again, but a lot of stuff was brought out about him that had nothing at all to do with the shooting. 
> 
> The same strategy will be used against Mike Brown, and people will lose track of what the big picture in all of this is.


Yep.

----------


## AuH20

Baby Huey was a child.....walks into a store....takes whatever he wants......manager/owners tells him he cant walk out without
paying....Baby Huey squashes owner....walks out with whatever it is he wanted.....in his limited child like mind thats all there
is to life.....want something...take something.....any impediment to the process you simply squash....doesn't matter who
or what the impediment is...has a badge or a gun....just squash him take his gun and shoot him then move on and enjoy the spoils
you are Baby Huey the dinosaur of the hood....obtuse...oblivious...not a clue....used to having his way....

First lesson Last lesson

----------


## orenbus



----------


## phill4paul

> Baby Huey was a child.....blah blah blah


  Lol. An utterly detracting piece of bull$#@!. For one that has called for waiting until all the facts come out this post is just ridiculous. You keep stirring the pot with this tripe. I do admit you are very good at it.

----------


## AuH20

> Lol. An utterly detracting piece of bull$#@!. For one that has called for waiting until all the facts come out this post is just ridiculous. You keep stirring the pot with this tripe. I do admit you are very good at it.


Some people go through life thinking they can bulldoze through every scenario. 300 lbs of ignorance. It is a shame that the police may have lost a promising recruit with the unfortunate demise of such a gentle soul.

----------


## SeanTX

> Baby Huey was a child.....walks into a store....takes whatever he wants......manager/owners tells him he cant walk out without
> paying....Baby Huey squashes owner....walks out with whatever it is he wanted.....in his limited child like mind thats all there
> is to life.....want something...take something.....any impediment to the process you simply squash....doesn't matter who
> or what the impediment is...has a badge or a gun....just squash him take his gun and shoot him then move on and enjoy the spoils
> you are Baby Huey the dinosaur of the hood....obtuse...oblivious...not a clue....used to having his way....
> 
> First lesson Last lesson


Cops are well known in some areas for just walking into stores and grabbing whatever they want and then walking out without paying . This is in addition to the coffee and doughnuts they are offered for free. It's STEALING. Just one of the "perks" of being a Hero. They also steal from store customers : 

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/...tore-customer/



> Detective Charged With Stealing Money From Convenience Store Customer
> July 17, 2014 8:21 PM
> 
> PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — *Police were summoned to the 7-Eleven convenience store on Pittsburgh’s North Side Wednesday to investigate a theft.
> 
> They ended up charging one of their own, Pittsburgh Police Homicide Detective Michael Reddy*, who is an 11-year veteran of the force.
> 
> snip
> 
> ...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> What the hell am I looking at here? A web page with photos over layed? What site?


It's a website that is explaining what the box of Swishers was for. That is, to smoke weed (blunts). The images are all shopped in showing a cut open Swisher Sweet cigar with marijuana in it. Then the image of Michael Brown is shopped in.

So not only did he rob a store owner (a crime) but he smoked marijuana  (not a crime but used nonetheless to assassinate the character of a dead man).

----------


## AuH20

> Cops are well known in some areas for just walking into store and grabbing whatever they want and walking out without paying . Just one of the "perks" of being a Hero. They also steal from store customers : 
> 
> http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/...tore-customer/


Sounds like power hungry $#@!s like Michael Brown. Nothing new on this planet. Might makes right. Whether you're stealing with a badge or 300 pounds of bulk the mentality is the same.

----------


## AuH20

I was thinking. You know who's going to suffer for this beyond the prime actors? The pakistani owner of the convenience store. His attorney was just on MSNBC I believe. He was basically pleading for Ferguson to not burn their store down. If there is a rule in the hood, it's that "snitches get stitches" so this guy better go on a cruise or something.

----------


## phill4paul

> I was thinking. You know who's going to suffer for this beyond the prime actors? The pakistani owner of the convenience store. His attorney was just on MSNBC I believe. He was basically pleading for Ferguson to not burn their store down. If there is a rule in the hood, it's that "snitches get stitches" so this guy better go on a cruise or something.


  The entire scenario should have ended right then and right there in the store. If the owner wasn't sold on police protection. Or dependent on gun laws in MO.

----------


## AuH20

> The entire scenario should have ended right then and right there in the store. If the owner wasn't sold on police protection. Or dependent on gun laws in MO.


Well said. With that said, I would have had more respect for Brown if he simply ducked out of there without pushing the store owner and threatening him with his massive size. That was the body language of a bully. It probably wasn't the first time he pulled a stunt like this.

----------


## invisible

> It's a website that is explaining what the box of Swishers was for. That is, to smoke weed (blunts). The images are all shopped in showing a cut open Swisher Sweet cigar with marijuana in it. Then the image of Michael Brown is shopped in.
> 
> So not only did he rob a store owner (a crime) but he smoked marijuana  (not a crime but used nonetheless to assassinate the character of a dead man).


But where is the proof that that's what he was going to do with the Swishers?  Maybe he just liked cigars.  Not everyone who buys (or steals) cigars uses them to roll blunts.

----------


## SeanTX

> Sounds like power hungry $#@!s like Michael Brown. Nothing new on this planet. Might makes right. Whether you're stealing with a badge or 300 pounds of bulk the mentality is the same.


Except the one with the badge knows that it is unlikely the store owner would confront him, at least if he knew what was good for him (might get some lumps on him, or worse). Or in a bad neighborhood the store owner would get very poor "service" from the police as a result. A thieving cop has a magic costume and the full backing of the state. 

In the other case I'm thinking of (can't find the link) when the owner finally tried to do something, nothing happened to the thieving cop.

Even worse are the highway bandits out "seizing" cash on roadways, under color of law, with the threat of a kidnapping or a roadside execution if you don't properly "comply. "  With all the stealing police are doing under color of law, I find it hard to get outraged over Mike Brown stealing some cigs. 

Though of course, he shouldn't have done it, and he damn sure shouldn't have laid hands on anyone though. Just like the police shouldn't be out "putting lumps" on people either -- just think of all the vids we've seen of cops beating the snot out of women and elderly people -- it makes what Mike Brown did to that store owner look very tame.

----------


## AuH20

> Except the one with the badge knows that it is unlikely the store owner would confront him, at least if he knew what was good for him (might get some lumps on him, or worse). Or in a bad neighborhood the store owner would get very poor "service" from the police as a result. A thieving cop has a magic costume and the full backing of the state. 
> 
> In the other case I'm thinking of (can't find the link) when the owner finally tried to do something, nothing happened to the thieving cop.
> 
> Even worse are the highway bandits out "seizing" cash on roadways, under color of law, with the threat of a death sentence if you don't properly "comply. "  With all the stealing police are doing under color of law,* I find it hard to get outraged over Mike Brown stealing some cigs.* Though of course, he shouldn't have done it, and he damn sure shouldn't have laid hands on anyone though (just like the police shouldn't be "putting lumps" on people either).


Unless of course you own the store. One day it's a few boxes of cigars and then the next it's a case of wine. Relativism is very dangerous. Just because a cop abuses his position doesn't grant someone else the right to infringe on other's property. Respect of each other's property is a key precept of modern civilization. Once that goes, you may as well go back to the stone age. That's why I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy for Brown. Sooner or later his wings would have been clipped, whether that would have been the cops or another stubborn homey.

----------


## phill4paul

> That's why I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy for Brown. Sooner or later his wings would have been clipped, whether that would have been the cops or another stubborn homey.


  ...aaand then again he might have found a "Come to God" moment and changed his entire life around breathing new life and morals into his community. If he wouldn't have been killed.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> But where is the proof that that's what he was going to do with the Swishers?  Maybe he just liked cigars.  Not everyone who buys (or steals) cigars uses them to roll blunts.


That's what he was going to do with them.

Regardless, smoking marijuana is not a crime. Robbery is.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

7:17 Mark. *"dude started running, coming towards the police."* Witness corroborates what the woman said. Brown doubled back to the police officer.

----------


## thoughtomator

> 7:17 Mark. *"dude started running towards the police."* Witness corroborates what the woman said. Brown doubled back to the police officer.


"Doubled back" doesn't mean anything more than turning around, which is consistent with what the woman eyewitness who went on MSNBC said. She also reported that he had his hands up and had surrendered when the officer put several more rounds into him.

----------


## mosquitobite

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...y.html?hpid=z1




> A partially redacted witness report in the packet  which did not state who provided the information  said that a woman inside the store came out of the bathroom during the altercation.
> 
> She told police she saw Brown tell the store employee that he and his companion wanted several boxes of cigars from behind the counter.
> 
> As [redacted employee name] was placing the boxes on the counter, Brown grabbed a box of Swisher Sweet cigars and handed them to [Dorian] Johnson who was standing behind Brown, the report states. Johnson has said in interviews that he was with Brown when he was killed.
> 
> The witness said that *the store employee then told Brown he had to pay first*, but Brown reached over the counter and grabbed more packs of cigars, then turned to leave the store.
> 
> According to the witness account, the employee called 911 and tried to prevent Brown from leaving the store by standing in front of the door.
> ...


Clerk racially profiled, Brown got mad.

Still doesn't justify the death penalty.


The article (and the video) show his friend putting a package back on the counter.  So if they went there with the INTENT to steal, why would he put them back?

----------


## mosquitobite

> 7:17 Mark. *"dude started running towards the police."* Witness corroborates what the woman said. Brown doubled back to the police officer.


So damned if you do; damned if you don't?

He's being shot as he runs away, and then when he turns around he gets shot as well?

----------


## thoughtomator

> So damned if you do; damned if you don't?
> 
> He's being shot as he runs away, and then when he turns around he gets shot as well?


That ugly fact doesn't fit the cop-apologists' theories, but it IS totally consistent with my impression that the cop showed up on the scene with the intent to kill someone.

----------


## orenbus

> 7:17 Mark. *"dude started running, coming towards the police."* Witness corroborates what the woman said. Brown doubled back to the police officer.


You might want to listen to the audio again. At *6:54* he said "next thing I know he came back toward the police", that doesn't mean he was running towards the police as an aggressive move, he may have turned around from running away from the officer and started to walk towards him with his hands up as other witnesses have stated which is what was being explained to the other person in the audio asking why his body was turned towards the vehicle if he was running away. Also at *6:48* he talks about how the officer shot at least five shots and the witness thinks he is missing him, this is prior to him turning around to face the officer, but instead he's just *"dumping"* shots into him, at least five.

----------


## AuH20

the term 'Double back' is defined as the following: 
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/u...an/double-back
_to turn and go back in the direction that you have come from
_

And did you hear what the guy said, "Dude starting running, coming towards the police." I believe at the 7:17 mark to 7:22. You may have to turn up volume. This would lend credibility with what the woman has said. She had stated that after Brown was stopped by the officer in his sights at a distance, Brown came back and charged the officer.

----------


## AuH20

> So damned if you do; damned if you don't?
> 
> He's being shot as he runs away, and then when he turns around he gets shot as well?


I speculate that Brown was convinced that the officer didn't have the stones to kill him and tried to close the distance on him, with intent to pummel the much smaller officer. Which is why the officer concluded that Brown may have been under the influence of some narcotic since sane people don't usually tempt fate like that.

----------


## mosquitobite

> I speculate that Brown was convinced that the officer didn't have the stones to kill him and tried to close the distance on him, with intent to pummel the much smaller officer. Which is why the officer concluded that Brown may have been under the influence of some narcotic since sane people don't usually tempt fate like that.


Um, from the same comments from the video - he had already been shot more than once at that point.

And again, could the officer not have gotten in his vehicle and locked the door?

Why are we so quick to justify a death for someone WITHOUT DUE PROCESS?

I'm not calling for the cops head - let him have his day in court.  But Michael Brown did not get his and it's a sad day when liberty people support that.

----------


## AuH20

> You might want to listen to the audio again. At *6:54* he said "next thing I know he came back toward the police", that doesn't mean he was running towards the police as an aggressive move, he may have turned around from running away from the officer and started to walk towards him with his hands up as other witnesses have stated. Also at *6:48* he talks about how the officer shot at least five shots and the witness thinks he is missing him, this is prior to him turning around to face the officer, but instead he's just *"dumping"* shots into him.


7:17 - 7:20. ""Dude starting running, coming towards the police." Turn up volume. You can hear. Running, coming towards the police.

----------


## AuH20

> Um, from the same comments from the video - he had already been shot more than once at that point.
> 
> And again, could the officer not have gotten in his vehicle and locked the door?
> 
> *Why are we so quick to justify a death for someone WITHOUT DUE PROCESS?*
> 
> I'm not calling for the cops head - let him have his day in court.  But Michael Brown did not get his and it's a sad day when liberty people support that.


I'm not justifying any death, but when someone pushes the envelope like Brown apparently did, it's not really a surprise. Allegedly slamming the car door back into the officer. Grappling with the police officer in and around the cab of the vehicle. Allegedly charging the police. Is anyone surprised how this ended?

----------


## thoughtomator

> the term 'Double back' is defined as the following: 
> http://www.macmillandictionary.com/u...an/double-back
> _to turn and go back in the direction that you have come from
> _


Yes, exactly as I said. It means nothing more than he turned around.




> And did you hear what the guy said, "Dude starting running, coming towards the police." I believe at the 7:17 mark to 7:22. You may have to turn up volume. This would lend credibility with what the woman has said. She had stated that after Brown was stopped by the officer in his sights at a distance, Brown came back and charged the officer.


Yeah, I hear it. "Coming" was correcting, not elaborating on "running", as prior to that the speaker recounts at least five shots fired at Brown.

Got that? *Brown was shot at FIVE TIMES before the justification you are attempting to craft for his murder could possibly have happened.*

----------


## mosquitobite

> I'm not justifying any death, but when someone pushes the envelope like Brown apparently did, it's not really a surprise. Allegedly slamming the car door back into the officer. Grappling with the police officer in and around the cab of the vehicle. Allegedly charging the police. Is anyone surprised how this ended?


Now you're changing the tone and you ARE justifying it, even if subtly.  

What you're indirectly saying is "does anyone expect the state to use restraint in their enforcement of the law?"

Why yes.  Yes I do.  There were multiple other ways this could have gone down & we wouldn't even be discussing this issue if they had.

He could have shot legs, arms, tazered, got in his car rolled up windows & radioed for help... all of which would mean Brown was behind bars instead of in the morgue.  He would have had his GOD GIVEN RIGHT to due process.

----------


## AuH20

> Yes, exactly as I said. It means nothing more than he turned around.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I hear it. "Coming" was correcting, not elaborating on "running", as prior to that the speaker recounts at least five shots fired at Brown.
> 
> Got that? *Brown was shot at FIVE TIMES before the justification you are attempting to craft for his murder could possibly have happened.*


You really believe he was shot 5 times at relatively close range and functioning like so? With perhaps a 9mm or .45 ACP. No way. He'd be a heap in the street if shot 5 times with those calibers. Yes, if the officer had a .22 but no officer utilizes .22s on-duty.

----------


## AuH20

> Now you're changing the tone and you ARE justifying it, even if subtly.  
> 
> What you're indirectly saying is "does anyone expect the state to use restraint in their enforcement of the law?"
> 
> Why yes.  Yes I do.  There were multiple other ways this could have gone down & we wouldn't even be discussing this issue if they had.
> 
> *He could have shot legs, arms,* tazered, got in his car rolled up windows & radioed for help... all of which would mean Brown was behind bars instead of in the morgue.


Such tactics can get you killed since it's not a normal shooting solution. You aim centermass or head. Ask any firearms professionals.

----------


## thoughtomator

> You really believe he was shot 5 times at relatively close range and functioning like so? With perhaps a 9mm or .45 ACP. No way. Yes, if the officer had a .22 but no officer utilizes .22s on-duty.


No, I believe the officer missed all of his shots except one, which caused the victim to turn around and surrender. 

*At which point the cop emptied several more rounds into the surrendered victim.*  <----- that should be a serious problem for you and it's what everybody is trying to tell you all this time FYI

----------


## mosquitobite

> Such tactics can get you killed since it's not a normal shooting solution. You aim centermass or head. Ask any firearms professionals.


So we might as well just settle into our slavery and realize if you disobey a cop, you are risking your life, and other slaves will cheer for the master.

SMH

----------


## AuH20

> So we might as well just settle into our slavery and realize if you disobey a cop, you are risking your life, and other slaves will cheer for the master.
> 
> SMH


I think the lesson is to not threaten the life of a cop unless you want back it up.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Such tactics can get you killed since it's not a normal shooting solution. You aim centermass or head. Ask any firearms professionals.


It wasn't a shooting situation at all, until the affirmative decision by the cop - which I suspect happened before he even stopped his vehicle - to make it one.

How long have you been this comfortable with comply-or-die policing protocol?

----------


## AuH20

> No, I believe the officer missed all of his shots except one, which caused the victim to turn around and surrender. 
> 
> *At which point the cop emptied several more rounds into the surrendered victim.*  <----- that should be a serious problem for you and it's what everybody is trying to tell you all this time FYI


So you're saying he shot a surrendered victim like a scene from _Saving Private Ryan_. Really? Do you really believe that would go over well? The neighbors would have proceeded to rip his head off. They would have found tattered blue rags covered with human tissue on the street.

----------


## thoughtomator

> I think the lesson is to not threaten the life of a cop unless you want back it up.


You have evidence that he threatened the life of a cop now?

You should call the newspapers, because nobody else has it.

Earlier today I thought you had a fair point of view, but your elaborations since have made me realize that you are completely clueless on the basics of inalienable rights, possibly because you don't care for them at all.

Now you're literally manufacturing new "facts" right in front of my eyes.

What the hell is wrong with you?

----------


## thoughtomator

> So you're saying he shot a surrendered victim like a scene from _Saving Private Ryan_. Really? Do you really believe that would go over well? The neighbors would have proceeded to rip his head off. They would have found tattered blue rags covered with human tissue on the street.


Or they would have gotten together in a massive protest for days on end... which is what they did. Perhaps they are not as savage and feral as your conception would have them.

----------


## AuH20

> You have evidence that he threatened the life of a cop now?
> 
> You should call the newspapers, because nobody else has it.
> 
> Earlier today I thought you had a fair point of view, but your elaborations since have made me realize that you are completely clueless on the basics of inalienable rights, possibly because you don't care for them at all.
> 
> Now you're literally manufacturing new "facts" right in front of my eyes.
> 
> What the hell is wrong with you?


Manufacturing? We have multiple witnesses detailing a struggle. A round goes off during the struggle striking the vehicle. Under what circumstances did this round go off? Is this cop the worst marksman in North America or was he slow dancing with the Gentle Giant within/near the vehicle?  The cop is later treated for a damaged jaw and swollen eye socket. How did he get it? Did he slip on a slushee on the way back to his car? We have further corroboration from 2 sources that the victim ran back to the officer after originally fleeing the initial encounter.

----------


## AuH20

> Or they would have gotten together in a massive protest for days on end... which is what they did. Perhaps they are not as savage and feral as your conception would have them.


Then they are a bunch of enablers to let a child of their neighborhood get gunned down as brazenly as you described. There would be nothing feral about their reaction if the police officer did indeed unload his clip at a close range on a surrendered target.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Then they are a bunch of enablers to let a child of their neighborhood get gunned down as brazenly as you described. There would be nothing feral about their reaction if the police officer did indeed unload his clip at a close range on a surrendered target.


Ah, so they deserve to be treated like animals because they are violent and savage - as per your prior posts - yet when they refuse to actually be violent and savage and adopt civil methods of expressing their grievances, they now deserve it because they weren't violent and savage.

Virulent racist much? I seriously hate to even refer to that motive, but when you repeatedly slap everyone in the face with it so explicitly, it's hard to ignore. It is unmistakable that you do not believe that inner-city blacks deserve rights - not even the right to life - and that nothing they can do will ever change your mind.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Manufacturing?





> I think the lesson is to not *threaten the life of a cop* unless you want back it up.





> We have multiple witnesses detailing a struggle. A round goes off during the struggle striking the vehicle. Under what circumstances did this round go off? Is this cop the worst marksman in North America or was he slow dancing with the Gentle Giant within/near the vehicle?  The cop is later treated for a damaged jaw and swollen eye socket. How did he get it? Did he slip on a slushee on the way back to his car? We have further corroboration from 2 sources that the victim ran back to the officer after originally fleeing the initial encounter.


Your entire apologia here has _nothing at all in it_ to substantiate your manufactured "fact" of a threat made to the life of the cop by the victim.

All witnesses who detail the struggle detail it in the same way - cop was the aggressor, cop executed a surrendered man. I guess witness testimony is only meaningful when it backs up your prejudice?

Let's be perfectly clear: *You just - right here and now, right in front of everyone following this thread - made up an allegation that the victim threatened the cop's life out of thin air, with absolutely zero evidence to back it up.*

Not only are you treading into "victim's lawyer now has actionable cause to sue you for libel" territory, but you are gravely insulting everyone here at RPF who is looking for the truth, not the fevered figments of cop-fellating imagination.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

> Ah, so they deserve to be treated like animals because they are violent and savage - as per your prior posts - yet when they refuse to actually be violent and savage and adopt civil methods of expressing their grievances, they now deserve it because they weren't violent and savage.
> 
> Virulent racist much? I seriously hate to even refer to that motive, but when you repeatedly slap everyone in the face with it so explicitly, it's hard to ignore. It is unmistakable that you do not believe that inner-city blacks deserve rights - not even the right to life - and that nothing they can do will ever change your mind.


Ah. The last refuge of scoundrels backpedaling for the exit. Racism. You do understand what the word means? Racism implies that one believes a group to be genetically superior to another. I never advocated such theories or argument. I prefer to describe myself as an insensitive realist.

Now to correct on your point. You have heard the term "violence begets violence?" Who is largely committing the violence in these particular neighborhoods? Is it the virulent 'racists' like I?  Who strong armed the store owner & set forth this entire sequence of events in motion? Was it the racists who don't even reside in the zip code? I'm interested in your response. 




> It is unmistakable that you do not believe that inner-city blacks deserve rights - not even the right to life - and that nothing they can do will ever change your mind.


Wow. You truly have a tone for the melodramatic. Where did I say that blacks don't deserve rights? Where is my treatise on denying Blacks their share of the Bill of Rights?

----------


## thoughtomator

> Where did I say that blacks don't deserve rights?


You certainly imply it with comments like "then they are a bunch of enablers" in response to learning that they actually took to peaceful protest.

You definitely aren't providing us with any _better_ explanation of why you are manufacturing false information. Mind you, this "threat" you made up isn't the first one - earlier on this thread you claimed a report on the robbery was called in to the cop - a claim directly contradicted by the Ferguson PD itself.

So, if not racism, what _is_ motivating you to create lies to propagate what you surely know by now - in your heart, if not in your brain - is a false narrative?

----------


## AuH20

> You certainly imply it with comments like "then they are a bunch of enablers" in response to learning that they actually took to peaceful protest.
> 
> You definitely aren't providing us with any _better_ explanation of why you are manufacturing false information. Mind you, this "threat" you made up isn't the first one - earlier on this thread you claimed a report on the robbery was called in to the cop - a claim directly contradicted by the Ferguson PD itself.
> 
> So, if not racism, what _is_ motivating you to create lies to propagate what you surely know by now - in your heart, if not in your brain - is a false narrative?


I think you misconstrued my earlier statement. If they did indeed witness a boy get gun downed in cold blood at close range while surrendering, they would be completely in their right to kill the said cop. It was not intended as any subtle jab at blacks as inferior or savage. I would want a white neighborhood to act in the same manner. Cold vengeance would be appropriate in such a outrageous scenario. Behavior as you described should not be tolerated.

----------


## thoughtomator

A small collection of AuH20 statements with clear racial implications:




> When I go to the ATM tonight, I'm not looking around for the TPTB. Your fellow citizens will just as easily gut you if the price is right. Sure, the TPTB will go through elaborate schemes of control, but don't discount the envy element that they have cultivated to such an alarming potency.





> You're lucky. I'm on the outskirts of NYC off a main road. Bad news if this experiment falls. Most likely marauding gangs are in my future.





> Actually, Michael Brown and his ilk are my problem because they give TPTB the perfect excuse to enact martial law. What do you think would happen if the EBT card system goes offline? Remember that trial episode a year or two ago? It was complete pandemonium.





> Did you hear about the white guy with the dog who wanted to lend support to the protesters last night? They nearly attacked him and chased him off. They erroneously thought he was a cop. That tells you how far gone some of these people are.


I'm sure there's more but I'm not pecking through your drivel all night.

You didn't think I came up with your racist motives out of thin air like you've been manufacturing libel, did you? Nay, *I've actually been reading your posts and the subtext is unmistakable.*

----------


## SeanTX

Listening to the police scanner now, things are heating up a bit again at the protests, not calm like last night -- they've had to break the tear gas back out.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-lou...police-scanner

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/45219/events/3295551

----------


## AuH20

> A small collection of AuH20 statements with clear racial implications:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where is the racism? Inquiring minds want to know. Where did I denigrate blacks as being genetically inferior to whites? Secondly, what did I say that is not factually true? I may be an insensitive bastard but I decry racism. Do you really want to run through this gauntlet? 




> When I go to the ATM tonight, I'm not looking around for the TPTB. Your fellow citizens will just as easily gut you if the price is right. Sure, the TPTB will go through elaborate schemes of control, but don't discount the envy element that they have cultivated to such an alarming potency.


*Per the New Century Foundation, Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery.

Forty-five percent of black crime is against whites, 43 against other blacks, and 10 percent against Hispanic.* 
_
So somehow my statement is factually accurate. You are statistically more likely to run into a black criminal as opposed to a white criminal if you are in the process of utilizing an ATM. Incredibly  lucky for a raving racist._




> You're lucky. I'm on the outskirts of NYC off a main road. Bad news if this experiment falls. Most likely marauding gangs are in my future.


_Marauding gangs with no color or race specified. Oops._



> Actually, Michael Brown and his ilk are my problem because they give TPTB the perfect excuse to enact martial law. What do you think would happen if the EBT card system goes offline? Remember that trial episode a year or two ago? It was complete pandemonium.


Case in point:
http://www.naturalnews.com/042462_eb...overnment.html




> Did you hear about the white guy with the dog who wanted to lend support to the protesters last night? They nearly attacked him and chased him off. They erroneously thought he was a cop. That tells you how far gone some of these people are.


Here is the original tweet documenting the incident:
https://twitter.com/RayDowns/status/499770540362448898
And I proudly stand by those comments. Some of THESE PEOPLE are so far gone to act in a fashion. Let the record be known.

BTW do you have my comments defending blacks, citing that their crime numbers were far below the general pop in the 1930s?

----------


## orenbus

Livestream here:

http://new.livestream.com/timcast/events/3295551

----------


## orenbus

Sounds like Aljazeera got charged again by police, police in gas masks, looting of multiple shops going on right now...

----------


## AuH20

> Sounds like Aljazeera got charged again by police, police in gas masks, looting of multiple shops going on right now...


Are you serious? I though it was all defused.

----------


## orenbus

Vice News stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WggJUN039k

----------


## orenbus

> Are you serious? I though it was all defused.


Sparking up again tonight, police coming in from different departments in the area. Media getting caught up in the escalation. About an hour ago tear gas let off, police moved in people reacted negatively, stores getting hit, aljazeera was filming when police came in and rushed them, right now police holding line, haven't made a major push yet, watching live stream...

----------


## thoughtomator

> Where is the racism? Inquiring minds want to know. Where did I denigrate blacks as being genetically inferior to whites? Secondly, what did I say that is not factually true? I'm an insensitive bastard but I decry racism. Do you really want to run through this gauntlet?


No, I actually don't care to at all, it's an exceedingly boring topic and isn't really all that relevant to the key issue at hand.

I want you to give me the reason that YOU have to be so intent on pursuing this cop's innocence. The facts don't fit the narrative you want, but you want the narrative badly enough to be making $#@! up in order to make it work, as evidence comes out contradicting the serial rumor-trial balloon explanations that have circulated. So I want to know what is motivating you so much to want the outcome of innocent cop that bad.

I want to know why you think a police department that comes out against its own community in war-fighting gear night after night, points weapons at peaceful protestors, and directly attacks members of the press, might be on the side of good and right and correct behavior in the initiating incident, or how you might imagine such a PD to be filled with the mythical "good cops" who are holding the line against savagery rather than acting as the leading wave thereof.

I want to know why it means that much to you to refuse to acknowledge the depth of all-out evil and actual waging of war by governments against people when it happens here, even though you see it happen all over the globe and are not surprised then.

If there's a better explanation than you simply not liking inner city blacks - and mind you, I don't particularly care for them either - then say so.

----------


## AuH20

> Sparking up again tonight, police coming in from different departments in the area. Media getting caught up in the escalation. About an hour ago tear gas let off, police moved in people reacted negatively, stores getting hit, aljazeera was filming when police came in and rushed them, right now police holding line, haven't made a major push yet, watching live stream...


I just read that the Pakistani store just got hit. Need to corroborate.

----------


## orenbus

Ferguson Market Liquor the store that Mike Brown got the cigarillos has just been broken into among at least a few other stores. CNN crew got attacked when they went up to film the looting, Police chopper is making its moving started shining light down on people in the street. 1:31am local (2:31am EST)

Police will most likely be making their move in on the crowd soon, action will be indiscriminate according to vice news...

----------


## AuH20

CNN Crew got attacked when tried to film looted liquor store.

----------


## orenbus

Police have started moving forward, protesters are moving back, bus-stop glass broken. Vice News saying just after midnight is when things started to get tense, vice news reported been threatened by some on the street to stop filming while looting was going on.

Vice News saying earlier it was like a block party, music, breakdancing, congressman was there number of other officials was there, it was like a party, soon as police started to move in, in force the crowd reacted negatively. All the positive energy from yesterday seems to have disappeared tonight Vice News sees to attribute some of what is happening to the Police coming in to break up the crowd.

Some on the street tried to stop the looters but there were dozens of looters so it "didn't cut through", those trying to stop it was outnumbered.

Police on loud speaker saying "Please disperse, we don't want anyone to get hurt" 1:42am local time (2:42am EST)

----------


## AuH20

> No, I actually don't care to at all, it's an exceedingly boring topic and isn't really all that relevant to the key issue at hand.
> 
> I want you to give me the reason that YOU have to be so intent on pursuing this cop's innocence. The facts don't fit the narrative you want, but you want the narrative badly enough to be making $#@! up in order to make it work, as evidence comes out contradicting the serial rumor-trial balloon explanations that have circulated. So I want to know what is motivating you so much to want the outcome of innocent cop that bad.


The facts actually point to Brown being more in the wrong and initiating the encounter but I digress. With that said, the police officer could be in the wrong for excessive force but that remains to be seen. But with prime witness Darius Johnson already implicated as an accomplice all trends point to the original account being unraveled and incomplete.




> I want to know why you think a police department that comes out against its own community in war-fighting gear night after night, points weapons at peaceful protestors, and directly attacks members of the press, might be on the side of good and right and correct behavior in the initiating incident, or how you might imagine such a PD to be filled with the mythical "good cops" who are holding the line against savagery rather than acting as the leading wave thereof.
> 
> I want to know why it means that much to you to refuse to acknowledge the depth of all-out evil and actual waging of war by governments against people when it happens here, even though you see it happen all over the globe and are not surprised then.
> 
> If there's a better explanation than you simply not liking inner city blacks - and mind you, I don't particularly care for them either - then say so.


Cops are individuals at the end of the day. Individuals are entitled to defend themselves, even those with the occupation of a police officer.

----------


## AuH20

Black folks defending the liquor store. Man says "Not all black people are n%&gas." Other man says "Ni$%^s are opportunists who want to take another man's work." Good for them.

----------


## orenbus

New group of black men have moved in front of the store to protect it now, they are saying "why do we have to come and protect this store when the police is right there."

"We're not opportunists."

"Why do we have loot the store that we have to shop in?"

"They (police) want us to $#@! up our own community, why give into them?"

When asked by Aljazeera "what is your message to the media when the show the looting tonight", they respond "We all ain't Niggas".

Peaceful protestors now protecting both sides of the street, stores.

Vice News is concerned once police moves in they probably won't be able to discern these individuals protecting the stores are not looters but there to protect the stores. 1:54am (2:54EST)

----------


## thoughtomator

This is Dorian Johnson:
http://www.onenewspage.com/video/201...ess-Speaks.htm

He has clear negatives to his credibility by being with his friend during the robbery, however his story matches up up flawlessly to both the video you produced and a highly credible witness who went on MSNBC:


Meet Tiffany Mitchell:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...ng_speaks.html

A lot more credible than Rachel Jentel, I would imagine you find her.

She doesn't know anyone involved and she tells _the exact same story_ as Dorian Johnson and the commenter on the last video you produced.

This story doesn't point to Brown having initiated anything. This story is uniform: the cop was the aggressor, and Brown had surrendered with his hands up when he was executed with several additional shots.

Note the Ferguson PD is not coming out disputing any of this - they have elected to go silent/vague on the subject, hide evidence, and distract with the red herring of the robbery beforehand, which was not known to the officer at the time of the incident. Yes it may serve to inform of the mental state of the deceased, however that is only one possibility. Another possibility is the story that three separate sources, one of which appears to be highly credible, agree on.

The physical evidence that would confirm the story that comes from these sources is being withheld by the Ferguson PD without reasonable cause, pending a toxicology report that is at best marginal to the case. (Did they do one on the killer?)

Also missing are evidence of the wounds alleged to have been received by the cop. Perhaps the makeup artist's schedule is a bit busy, or they are reluctant to manufacture that evidence if they can avoid it. Or perhaps "Darren Wilson" doesn't actually exist at all.

Not missing: evidence of felonious armed assault on the press, multiple incidents of false arrest/imprisonment of the press and others, arrests and charges for which will not even be discussed, never mind forthcoming.

There's no room in the picture, incomplete as it is, for an innocent cop. This scenario doesn't fit that one.

----------


## AuH20

East St. Louis flooding into Ferguson. Stealing and looting per a woman.

----------


## JK/SEA

yawn...so?..

has the autopsy report been released yet..?

----------


## orenbus

A woman witness explains to Vice News that the looters are actual separate people from East St. Louis that are coming in and are opportunists, they come late and wait until they hear that the police is going to move in to disperse the protesters or for something to happen so they can pounce in and take advantage of the chaos to break into businesses and loot so that neither the police or the residents of the community can stop them fast enough before things are stolen. 2:09am Local (3:10am EST)

----------


## JK/SEA

anyone know what the autopsy report says yet?...

everyone needs to focus on that, and ignore all this fluff agitation...priorities people, priorities...

----------


## AuH20

There is a black guy stating that you need to scrap the Constitution since it's structurally constructed to promote racism. He's going off on a tangent. Not a bad guy but a little preoccupied with white privilege.

----------


## JK/SEA

> There is a black guy stating that you need to scrap the Constitution since it's structurally constructed to promote racism. He's going off on a tangent. Not a bad guy but a little preoccupied with white privilege.


you're being seduced by shiny objects...stay focused.

----------


## AuH20

> you're being seduced by shiny objects...stay focused.


I'm just documenting the Vice feed. None of this banter is essential info.

----------


## thoughtomator

> anyone know what the autopsy report says yet?...
> 
> everyone needs to focus on that, and ignore all this fluff agitation...priorities people, priorities...


I can only imagine the political pressure being applied right now to influence the contents of that report. That report should have been released the moment it was finished.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I'm just documenting the Vice feed. None of this banter is essential info.


understood...

however, all this 'stuff' happening now is a direct result of Officer Wilson...don't forget that.

----------


## AuH20

> understood...
> 
> however, all this 'stuff' happening now is a direct result of Officer Wilson...don't forget that.


Actually, Brown is the one that set forth the entire sequence of events into motion. He did it twice in fact. Once, when he strong armed the clerk and then later when he resisted questioning by Wilson.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Actually, Brown is the one that set forth the entire sequence of events into motion. He did it twice in fact. Once, when he strong armed the clerk and then later when he resisted questioning by Wilson.


haha...sarcasm is good for the soul...

btw...are you getting paid overtime?

----------


## thoughtomator

> Actually, Brown is the one that set forth the entire sequence of events into motion. He did it twice in fact. Once, when he strong armed the clerk and then later when he resisted questioning by Wilson.


That is false, and you've been told enough times by now. The sequence of events that caused a fatality started with the cop approaching the two boys on the street.

----------


## JK/SEA

>crickets<

----------


## thoughtomator

> >crickets<


Autopsy report will be released when they have the toxicology report, in four or more weeks.

That's right, they intend to withhold this key evidence from the public for a month, minimum.

----------


## CPUd

If they are looking to get more witness statements, expect certain specifics to be withheld until then.  Especially if they don't know whether or not the cop is going to be charged with a crime.

----------


## orenbus

Vice News Stream Down for now unless something else starts to spark up.

Channel 4 St. Louis KMOV is streaming live here:
http://www.kmov.com/home/KMOV-Live-S...129813793.html

Edit: 

Tim Pool from Vice News: "Looting at the liquor store again." - 3:16am Local (4:16 EST)

KMOV reports a code 2000 was put out earlier in the night calling for local police departments to assist officers in Ferguson.

KMOV Also reports:
- Capt. Johnson feared that the report and video of Michael Brown in the strong-arm robbery would incite anger earlier in the day.
- Report of someone shot earlier, brought to local hospital.
- Looting began down the street causing the protestors to stop protecting the Ferguson Market and Liquor to protect the other stores which allowed for random others to start looting at the Liquor store. Now Looting seems to be spreading to other stores in the area.
- Protestors at store yelling at the looters saying "You are making all of us look bad!" "Police over there are ready to shoot at us because of you", etc.


Edit:

----------


## acptulsa

> You're skipping over the part where the 18 year old punk *allegedly* assaulted him because he asked him not to walk in the street.


Fixed that for you.




> I wasn't too sure about what actually happened to begin with, I thought maybe the kid back-talked and the police shot him out of rage, but the surveillance cam footage from the store tells me all I need to know about this turd.


You saw something in there that convinced you he was due a summary execution in front of a one-man firing squad...?

----------


## JustinTime

> Sounds like a personal  problem.


If a mob comes for your business is it still a personal problem? Its easy to say that when its the other guy getting everything he has worked for looted and burned.

----------


## phill4paul

> "Every eyewitness", as in the same nitwits who are out rioting, or the guy who helped Brown in his strong arm robbery?


  As opposed to cops who have no skin in the game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_perjury

----------


## JustinTime

> Fixed that for you.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw something in there that convinced you he was due a summary execution in front of a one-man firing squad...?


I saw that the "alleged" is probably true.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Unlike the woman in Arizona a couple of months ago, this didn't happen because Brown merely jaywalked. He could have just gotten out of the street and none of this would have happened, but *he chose to assault the cop*.


On what evidence are you making this libelous claim?

----------


## phill4paul

> If a mob comes for your business is it still a personal problem? Its easy to say that when its the other guy getting everything he has worked for looted and burned.


  I was talking about your lack of ability to protect yourself. I have no such problems. Some prepare. Some don't. I've found that those that prepare usually fare better.

----------


## JustinTime

> As opposed to cops who have no skin in the game?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_perjury


Yeah yeah, the "blue wall", sure cops will lie to protect other cops. Is that whats happening here? I told you I started out thinking the police were in the wrong, but after getting a glimpse of what Mike Brown was like when he was shoving that store owner and stealing his property, I know better.

----------


## acptulsa

> I saw that the "alleged" is probably true.


Because someone who would walk out of a store even after being seen shoplifting, shoving the clerk aside in the process, will obviously jump in a police vehicle with the cop and try to take his gun out of his holster?

Got any stats to back that up?




> Yeah yeah, the "blue wall", sure cops will lie to protect other cops. Is that whats happening here? I told you I started out thinking the police were in the wrong, but after getting a glimpse of what Mike Brown was like when he was shoving that store owner and stealing his property, I know better.


And were the cops also right when they decided they needed to protect themselves and their station and let the community they're sworn to protect go up in flames?

Or, to put it another way, there's no way on Earth both Brown and Wilson could be wrong?  Could it be that not only do two wrongs not make a right, in this case two wrongs made one hell of a mess?

----------


## orenbus

Protesters Protect Ferguson Businesses From Looters

----------


## orenbus

Morning After:

----------


## JustinTime

> I was talking about your lack of ability to protect yourself. I have no such problems. Some prepare. Some don't. I've found that those that prepare usually fare better.


Yep, that's all fine and good, but Id like a little extra protection too. 

So what happens when your friends decides they need to protect their property too, and leave you hanging? 

Or what happens when time for posing for pics ends and SHTF, and your pals decides your store isn't worth their lives? 

Or what if they start thinking that if they have to kill someone the media makes them into the next George Zimmerman?

Like I said, until things change big time in our culture Ill take some locally funded and controlled cops along with my rights to self defense.

----------


## JustinTime

> Because someone who would walk out of a store even after being seen shoplifting, shoving the clerk aside in the process, will obviously jump in a police vehicle with the cop and try to take his gun out of his holster?
> 
> Got any stats to back that up?


Is it some huge leap from one to the other?

----------


## acptulsa

> Like I said, until things change big time in our culture Ill take some locally funded and controlled cops along with my rights to self defense.


Me, too.  And I'm pissed the fedgov doesn't want me to have either one.

----------


## phill4paul

> Yep, that's all fine and good, but Id like a little extra protection too. 
> 
> So what happens when your friends decides they need to protect their property too, and leave you hanging? 
> 
> Or what happens when time for posing for pics ends and SHTF, and your pals decides your store isn't worth their lives? 
> 
> Or what if they start thinking that if they have to kill someone the media makes them into the next George Zimmerman?
> 
> Like I said, until things change big time in our culture Ill take some locally funded and controlled cops along with my rights to self defense.


  All the above worries come down to not being prepared. I'd rather not fund anyone locally or federally for your lack of preparation. If you are really that worried about it perhaps you should contract a private company?

----------


## juleswin

I found the eyewitness description of what happened a bit damaging to the whole Micheal Brown case. If true, this may have been a very big con job by the store robbers.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I found the eyewitness description of what happened a bit damaging to the whole Micheal Brown case. If true, this may have been a very big con job by the store robbers.


eyewitness to what?...the blood spraying off Browns back?

----------


## thoughtomator

> I found the eyewitness description of what happened a bit damaging to the whole Micheal Brown case. If true, this may have been a very big con job by the store robbers.


Same video AuH20 and I discussed last night. If you listen to the audio, you can hear for yourself that it doesn't support the allegation (that Brown charged/attacked) that is being based on it, but rather supports the other witnesses' claims (that the cop gunned down a person who first tried to run away, then surrendered with hands up).

If anyone is going to base their argument on an odd interpretation of this audio clip, they must be desperate indeed to prove something specific.

----------


## juleswin

> eyewitness to what?...the blood spraying off Browns back?


You got to listen to it first. Eye witness who saw everything that happened before and after the shooting, that is if you believe him.

----------


## orenbus

> I found the eyewitness description of what happened a bit damaging to the whole Micheal Brown case. If true, this may have been a very big con job by the store robbers.


The problem with making the connection between the two accounts of what happen is that you have to listen to the entire audio of "Josie" at *1:42* here you can hear her say that the officer got the "call in" of the strong-arm robbery but that conflicts with what Chief of Police has told us that the officer did not know the suspects at the time were in involved in a robbery. If her second hand information is to be believed, we have to look at the entire statement as an accurate report and not sure we can do that right now.

----------


## juleswin

> The problem with making the connection between the two accounts of what happen is that you have to listen to the entire audio of "Josie" at *1:42* here you can hear her say that the officer got the "call in" of the strong-arm robbery but that conflicts with what Chief of Police has told us that the officer did not know the suspects at the time were in involved in a robbery.


But how about the guy on the street talking? How do you discredit his account? I mean you can hear him say something about Brown rushing the police officer before he he killed him.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The problem with making the connection between the two accounts of what happen is that you have to listen to the entire audio of "Josie" at *1:42* here you can hear her say that the officer got the "call in" of the strong-arm robbery but that conflicts with what Chief of Police has told us that the officer did not know the suspects at the time were in involved in a robbery.


The implications of us getting the police department's trial balloon explanations through an anonymous source are both significant and damning.

----------


## thoughtomator

> But how about the guy on the street talking? How do you discredit his account? I mean you can hear him say something about Brown rushing the police officer before he he killed him.


Actually, no you can't. Why don't you try listening to the audio?

----------


## orenbus

Gov. Nixon and Highway Patrol to have press conference at 3:00pm EST.

----------


## mosquitobite

> "Every eyewitness", as in the same nitwits who are out rioting, or the guy who helped Brown in his strong arm robbery?


Have you SEEN the video surveillance?  Read the eye witness (the mother who was in the convenience store at that time)?

I am guessing NOT.

----------


## phill4paul

> Gov. Nixon and Highway Patrol to have press conference at 3:00pm EST.


  Johnson didn't do so well that first go around..IMHO. He made sure he was all about "Being for the people." When the people at the back said they couldn't hear he walked away from the microphones to be "With the people." But when hard questions were asked he hmmmed and hawwwwed. Said that _he_ didn't have the answers. As if he wasn't totally apprised of the situation. I think the worm turned on him at that point.

----------


## AuH20

> But how about the guy on the street talking? How do you discredit his account? I mean you can hear him say something about Brown rushing the police officer before he he killed him.


It's pretty damning and corroborates the woman's story. The Gentle Giant came back and ran at the policeman after the initial struggle. It's funny that Dorian Johnson left it out, but now we have individuals relaying the same details. The officer is dead man walking. The people want their blood tribute no matter the facts because if you're an individual who happens to be a cop you don't have a right to liberty or self-defense. That's the lesson here. Darren Wilson will pay for the vast sins of the police department.

----------


## phill4paul

> It's pretty damning and corroborates the woman's story. The Gentle Giant came back and ran at the policeman after the initial struggle. It's funny that Dorian Johnson left it out, but now we have individuals relaying the same details.


  The Gentle Giant and the "Quite, Gentle man" Officer. For so much gentleness to be going on I'm surprised there wasn't a bro hug between the two. Still, for all the "eyewitness" reports there are the only one that is going to matter is the one crafted for Wilson. Because, even, you can admit it will be crafted. At this point, even if he just decided to be an $#@! cop and turned a situation the wrong way, his testimony will be the one taken as gospel. As it always has been in these situations. It's not as if Wilson or the P.D. don't have skin in this game regarding their reputation. So, perhaps, everyone is lying. Or perhaps everyone is simply seeing it through their eyes with personal motives interfering. It is just as likely that the cop was an $#@! and decided to press it against someone. Ignorant of what had just transpired at the store. And decided he just wasn't gonna put up with someone "lipping off" to his authority. As AF has stated. It doesn't matter. 
  The only person that could speak to his defense is dead. As is most always the case when things go too far.

----------


## AuH20

> The Gentle Giant and the "Quite, Gentle man" Officer. For so much gentleness to be going on I'm surprised there wasn't a bro hug between the two. Still, for all the "eyewitness" reports there are the only one that is going to matter is the one crafted for Wilson. Because, even, you can admit it will be crafted. At this point, even if he just decided to be an $#@! cop and turned a situation the wrong way, his testimony will be the one taken as gospel. As it always has been in these situations. It's not as if Wilson or the P.D. don't have skin in this game regarding their reputation. So, perhaps, everyone is lying. Or perhaps everyone is simply seeing it through their eyes with personal motives interfering. It is just as likely that the cop was an $#@! and decided to press it against someone. Ignorant of what had just transpired at the store. And decided he just wasn't gonna put up with someone "lipping off" to his authority. As AF has stated. It doesn't matter. 
>   The only person that could speak to his defense is dead. As is most always the case when things go too far.


The PD's reputation is already damaged for good measure by their own collective actions after the incident. I personally think they are going to sacrifice Wilson in the name of political correctness and call it a day. The community gets their villain, while tranquility and brotherhood to all men returns to Ferguson.

----------


## orenbus

> The PD's reputation is already damaged for good measure by their own collective actions after the incident. I personally think they are going to sacrifice Wilson in the name of political correctness and call it a day.


Not sure if it will be in the name of "political correctness" or they (the county police investigators and prosecutor) will just realize that with so many eyes on this case including the Feds (FBI and Dept of Justice) involved, it will be impossible this time to protect one of their own using standard misdirection tactics that protect many others behind the "blue line" this time. Whatever the case I'm starting to agree of what may be a likely conclusion, the language being used by the Chief of Police and others lead me to think that in the end the officer will be found guilty and be sent to federal prison.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The PD's reputation is already damaged for good measure by their own collective actions after the incident.


The PD's rep is not damaged, it is completely shot. They were caught red-handed lying about their assault on the Al-Jazeera America news crew, not knowing it was filmed by a third party.

At this point, taking the PD's word for ANYTHING is as foolish as taking Obama at his word. Proven beyond reasonable doubt baldface liars, both.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It's pretty damning and corroborates the woman's story. The Gentle Giant came back and ran at the policeman after the initial struggle. It's funny that Dorian Johnson left it out, but now we have individuals relaying the same details. The officer is dead man walking. The people want their blood tribute no matter the facts because if you're an individual who happens to be a cop you don't have a right to liberty or self-defense. That's the lesson here. Darren Wilson will pay for the vast sins of the police department.


I went through all this over twenty years ago.

First I caught $#@! because I raised hell about beating Rodney King, regardless of what he was accused of.

Then had to switch sides and defend the cops as they got dragged through enough trials and courts until someone found them guilty.

$#@! me, there is no justice in any of this, but at the end of the day, this is what it boils down to:




> Darren Wilson will pay for the vast sins of the police department


Abolish them. Send 'em home, shut the doors, auction off all the military equipment, turn the cop cars into taxis and the cop fortresses into bingo halls.

For any "good" that might come out of having cops around, the bad is far worse.

We'll figure *something* out as a suitable replacement if needed or wanted.

----------


## orenbus

Update: Ferguson Press Conference (re?)scheduled for 4:00pm EST (Gov. Nixon, Capt. Johnson)

----------


## phill4paul

> I personally think they are going to sacrifice Wilson in the name of political correctness and call it a day.





> Whatever the case I'm starting to agree of what may be a likely conclusion, the language being used by the Chief of Police and others lead me to think that in the end the officer will be found guilty and be sent to federal prison.


  We shall see. I do not think so. This trial, if it comes to that, will be years in the making. Long after the citizens, police and news crews call it a day. This is the AmeriKa of the 15 minute time span after all.

----------


## orenbus

New Details: DOJ objected to release of Store video, advised Ferguson police not to release video, but Ferguson went ahead and did it anyway.

----------


## AuH20

> New Details: DOJ objected to release of Store video, advised Ferguson police not to release video, but Ferguson went ahead and did it anyway.


Good for them. The DOJ led by Holder are a gang of racist pricks. Holder has said as much. And the video was critical in outlining the motive of Brown when he tangled with Wilson. A person with nothing to hide doesn't engage with an officer like it's a life or death struggle. It simply doesn't work that way.

----------


## phill4paul

> Good for them. The DOJ led by Holder are a gang of racist pricks. Holder has said as much. And the video was critical in outlining the motive of Brown when he tangled with Wilson. A person with nothing to hide doesn't engage with an officer like it's a life or death struggle. It simply doesn't work that way.


  I have nothing to hide. I will engage in a life or death struggle with an officer if he escalates beyond a certain limit. I have stated so many times. I have documented many times how they operate and I will not subject myself to their will. So where does that leave your B.S. assertion?

----------


## AuH20

> I have nothing to hide. I will engage in a life or death struggle with an officer if he escalates beyond a certain limit. I have stated so many times. I have documented many times how they operate and I will not subject myself to their will. So where does that leave your B.S. assertion?


So after you just robbed a convenience store, you're going to just roll over and let an officer of law rub your stomach? That seems unlikely. The victim is already documented using force to get what he wanted minutes earlier. Unless officer friendly just brutally mugged someone earlier, the reputations aren't equal based on the empirical evidence that has been compiled. Brown has two strikes against his reputation before he even runs into Wilson.

----------


## phill4paul

> So after you just robbed a convenience store, you're going to just roll over and let an officer of law rub your stomach? That seems unlikely. The victim is already documented using force to get what he wanted minutes earlier. Unless officer friendly just brutally mugged someone earlier, the reputations aren't equal.


  You said...




> A person with nothing to hide doesn't engage with an officer like it's a life or death struggle.


  I countered. 

  Will you now retract your statement....




> A person with nothing to hide doesn't engage with an officer like it's a life or death struggle.


  Or will you keep spinning it?

----------


## acptulsa

> So after you just robbed a convenience store, you're going to just roll over and let an officer of law rub your stomach? That seems unlikely. The victim is already documented using force to get what he wanted minutes earlier. Unless officer friendly just brutally mugged someone earlier, the reputations aren't equal based on the empirical evidence that has been compiled. Brown has two strikes against him before he even runs into Wilson.


Wilson didn't know the kid had just wandered off without paying for his blunt makings and the Ferguson PD appears to have had one hell of a reputation for some years now.

So how is this two strikes to zero again?  I lost count in there somewhere.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I have nothing to hide. I will engage in a life or death struggle with an officer if he escalates beyond a certain limit. I have stated so many times. I have documented many times how they operate and I will not subject myself to their will. So where does that leave your B.S. assertion?


qft.

----------


## AuH20

> You said...
> 
> 
> 
>   I countered. 
> 
>   Will you now retract your statement....
> 
> 
> ...


I won't retract anything. A person with nothing to hide doesn't engage with an officer like it's a life or death struggle. Who the hell throws a door back at a police officer and then engages an officer if you have no reason to do? Cop asks you to move to side of the road because you're blocking traffic and that gives the right to attack him? In what bizarro world is that permissible? Wait. Brown being such an erudite fellow was probably a sovereign citizen and fighting on principle. ROFL Let's rephrase it. Let's say a civilian asks you. Do you attack him?

----------


## AuH20

> Wilson didn't know the kid had just wandered off without paying for his blunt makings and the Ferguson PD appears to have had one hell of a reputation for some years now.
> 
> So how is this two strikes to zero again?  I lost count in there somewhere.


Brown is on video committing a strong arm robbery. It doesn't get much clearer than that. He runs into the cop, panics in a fight or flight response that he may be pinched and does what he only knows. Use his size like he did earlier. In this case, Wilson's head.

----------


## phill4paul

> I won't retract anything. A person with nothing to hide doesn't engage with an officer like it's a life or death struggle. Who the hell throws a door back at a police officer and then engages an officer if you have no reason to do? Cop asks you to move to side of the road because you're blocking traffic and that gives the right to attack him? In what bizarro world is that permissible? Let's rephrase it. Let's say a civilian asks you. Do you attack him?


  Of course you won't. You're incapable of that. My position was clear. Continue spinning.

----------


## AuH20

> Of course you won't. You're incapable of that. My position was clear. Continue spinning.


So the next time you are pulled over for speeding, document your life and death struggle with the officer for us. I'm sure that would be a logical hill to die on.

----------


## orenbus

Gov. Nixon announces Ferguson now under curfew.

----------


## JustinTime

> The PD's reputation is already damaged for good measure by their own collective actions after the incident. I personally think they are going to sacrifice Wilson in the name of political correctness and call it a day.


Which is sad because I think he might just be the only person with clean hands, with all the other dirt that has come to light over what Ferguson PD has done.

----------


## phill4paul

> So the next time you are pulled over for speeding, document your life and death struggle with the officer for us. I'm sure that would be a logical hill to die on.


  I don't speed. Therefore, if he pulled me for speeding then he would be nothing more than a highway man in my eyes. He could write me a ticket if he chose to. I'd simply tear it up. If he chose at that point to escalate the situation then it may very well be a hill to live or die on.
So, care to try and keep spinning it?

----------


## JustinTime

> Wilson didn't know the kid had just wandered off without paying for his blunt


No, but the kid knew, and he thought the cop knew, and he acted like someone thinking he was about to get pinched for a robbery and not a kid who was told to get on the sidewalk. This is why I said earlier, the store surveillance cam explains it all to me.

----------


## JustinTime

> New Details: DOJ objected to release of Store video, advised Ferguson police not to release video, but Ferguson went ahead and did it anyway.


So Holder and his crew held the release up. All this could have been stopped before it started, but powerful men in DC were trying to create a false image of a poor black kid ruthlessly gunned down by white cops for no reason. Typical.

----------


## AuH20

> No, but the kid knew, and he thought the cop knew, and he acted like someone thinking he was about to get pinched for a robbery and not a kid who was told to get on the sidewalk. *This is why I said earlier, the store surveillance cam explains it all to me.*


Yup. Without the store surveillance, this likely tilts in Brown's direction. Wilson appeared to be the trigger happy maniac in all this before the surveillance video was released. The surveillance video establishes the precedent that Brown will use his size and corresponding force to get what he wants.

----------


## AuH20

> So Holder and his crew held the release up. All this could have been stopped before it started, but powerful men in DC were trying to create a false image of a poor black kid ruthlessly gunned down by white cops for no reason. Typical.


They don't care. They need victims so they can justify their social justice campaign. If the victims dry up, they are out of a job.

----------


## Warlord

So Brown did this to himself just like Kelly Thomas who was beaten to a pulp for no good reason. I am sick of this $#@!. Robbery does not mean a street execution. It was contempt of cop and the punishment was an execution. FU Auh20 you should be ashamed of yourself.

----------


## AuH20

> So Brown did this to himself just like Kelly Thomas who was beaten to a pulp for no good reason. I am sick of this $#@!. *Robbery does not mean a street execution. It was contempt of cop and the punishment was an execution. FU Auh20 you should be ashamed of yourself.*


Robbery does not necessitate a street execution, but it does establish a motive to attack the police officer preemptively and prevent an arrest. I'm ashamed of myself for logically deciphering the trail of the evidence and siding with the police officer. I should have know better. We should have hung Wilson already for good measure due to the fact that he's a cop. I'm sorry. Won't let it happen again.

----------


## JustinTime

> So Brown did this to himself just like Kelly Thomas who was beaten to a pulp for no good reason. I am sick of this $#@!. Robbery does not mean a street execution. It was contempt of cop and the punishment was an execution. FU Auh20 you should be ashamed of yourself.


Youre skipping over the part where the 6'5" violent "kid" attacked the cop over nothing more than being asked to get out of the street. 

At first that didn't make sense to me, but the surveillance footage of the robbery makes it all crystal clear, he knew what he had done and thought he was about to get arrested.

----------


## moostraks

> Robbery does not necessitate a street execution, but it does establish a motive to attack the police officer preemptively and prevent an arrest. I'm ashamed of myself for logically deciphering the trail of the evidence and siding with the police officer. I should have know better. We should have hung Wilson already for good measure due to the fact that he's a cop. I'm sorry. Won't let it happen again.


You have deciphered anything but propaganda that feeds your own hatred. You are biased and arrogant. You spun the likely tale the officers came up with looking at a route of escape and half the stuff you are crowing about is even larger claims than has come from msm to protect your heroes, the police...

----------


## AuH20

> You have deciphered anything but* propaganda that feeds your own hatred. You are biased and arrogant.* You spun the likely tale the officers came up with looking at a route of escape and half the stuff you are crowing about is even larger claims than has come from msm to protect your heroes, the police...


Are you talking about yourself?

Now I'm a police lover? Really? I wonder if the Pakistani store owner was a damned police lover as well. It would explain why he called 911. Bastard!  I don't know where to start......I feel like I stumbled into a time portal that took me back to the Spanish Inquisition.

----------


## phill4paul

> Youre skipping over the part where the 6'5" violent "kid" attacked the cop over nothing more than being asked to get out of the street.


  Video of the assault on cop or gtfo. What is known .. an unarmed man was shot multiple times by a cop and died in the middle of the street because of these gun shot wounds.

  That's about it. 

  Care to interject any solid _facts_ regarding what happened in the street at the time of the altercation?  Not before or after. At the time.

----------


## AuH20

> Video of the assault on cop or gtfo. What is known .. *an unarmed man was shot multiple times by a cop and died in the middle of the street because of these gun shot wounds.*
> 
>   That's about it. 
> 
>   Care to interject any solid _facts_ regarding what happened in the street at the time of the altercation?  Not before or after. At the time.


Just minding his own business with no known motives.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Why is it that the clear-cut cases of Police killing people for absolutely no reason are always met with a yawn, but the cases that are far more murky are blown out into national rage, riots and weeks (if not months) of heavy media coverage?

Ho-hum:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ning-to-Patrol

----------


## phill4paul

> Are you talking about yourself?
> 
> Now I'm a police lover? Really? I wonder if the Pakistani store owner was a damned police lover as well. It would explain why he called 911. Bastard!  I don't know where to start......I feel like I stumbled into a time portal that took me back to the Spanish Inquisition.


  Don't know about a police _lover_. But, perhaps, a police _believer_. And even that is up in the air as his liaryer reported that it was a customer that phoned the report in not the store owner.

----------


## phill4paul

> Just minding his own business with no known motives.


  Do you have first hand knowledge? Do you have video? Now would _really_ be the time to come forth with evidence. Do you dispute that the man shot dead in the street was unarmed?

----------


## AuH20

> Why is it that the clear-cut cases of Police killing people for absolutely no reason are always met with a yawn, but the cases that are far more murky are blown out into national rage, riots and weeks (if not months) of heavy media coverage?
> 
> Ho-hum:
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ning-to-Patrol


Young black kid killed in polarized town by white cop. It's a made for TV movie. The other, more outrageous cases of police abuse aren't as alluring to Boobus. It really taps into your sense of white guilt and you can get awfully indignant.

----------


## Warlord

> Youre skipping over the part where the 6'5" violent "kid" attacked the cop over nothing more than being asked to get out of the street. 
> 
> At first that didn't make sense to me, but the surveillance footage of the robbery makes it all crystal clear, he knew what he had done and thought he was about to get arrested.


He was 35 feet away when he was shot 8 times and killed, unarmed, executed.  Stop trying to say he did this to himself because he did not deserve a street execution for $#@!s sake.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> He was 35 feet away when he was shot 8 times and killed, unarmed, executed.


Absent video, we will never know the truth on that.

----------


## AuH20

> Absent video, we will never know the truth on that.


And the other smartphone video contradicts this account.

----------


## Warlord

> Absent video, we will never know the truth on that.


He was found 35 feet away lying in a pool of blood. He was shot at and executed from a distance. This is not disputed. He was running away and was shot and executed.  Even if he was a robber he did not deserve that punishment. Auh20 and now JustinTime are saying he did this to himself in effect they;re arguing because he was a robbery suspect he deserved to be executed. Well no, he didn't/

----------


## FindLiberty

Sadly the investigation results are still not ready yet...
Will the riot-looter types even believe those results?

This "need to change" YouTube rant seems reasonable to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U#t=365

----------


## Warlord

> Sadly the investigation results are still not ready yet...
> Will the riot-looter types even believe those results?
> 
> This "need to change" YouTube rant seems reasonable to me.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U#t=365


Even if he was wanted for robbery he did not deserve a street execution. No one does. AuH20 is a disgrace for saying he did this to himself

----------


## AuH20

> Even if he was wanted for robbery he did not deserve a street execution. No one does. *AuH20 is a disgrace for saying he did this to himself*


He did. If he pays for the cigars, this never happens. If he's walking on the sidewalk instead brazenly in the middle of the road, this probably never happens. If he doesn't retaliate with the cop, it never happens. He had 3 chances to mitigate the damage but didn't. Hard to feel sorry for him. Smart people don't put themselves in such situations.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## Warlord

> He did. If he pays for the cigars, this never happens. If he's walking on the sidewalk instead brazenly in the middle of the road, this probably never happens. If he doesn't retaliate with the cop, it never happens. He had 3 chances to mitigate the damage but didn't. Hard to feel sorry for him. Smart people don't put themselves in such situations.


You have a very warped sense of the world. He did not deserve street execution by a trigger happy cop. Even as a robbery suspect. When will you get this through your thick skull? He did not deserve to die neither did Kelly Thomas or the countless other victims of police brutality.

----------


## thoughtomator

> He did. If he pays for the cigars, this never happens.


Please do tell us how exactly that would have changed the situation, given that the cop didn't know about it.

----------


## AuH20

> You have a very warped sense of the world. He did not deserve street execution by a trigger happy cop. Even as a robbery suspect. When will you get this through your thick skull? He did not deserve to die neither did Kelly Thomas or the countless other victims of police brutality.

----------


## acptulsa

> He did. If he pays for the cigars, this never happens.


Excuse me?

How many people need to tell you that the cop who executed him with a barrage of bullets worthy of a firing squad never knew the kid has stolen a box of Swisher Sweets before you stop saying this?  How many people?

Shall we get the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to sing it for you?  Will it get through then?

How does something the cop never knew about change the cop's mind?  How?

----------


## JK/SEA

> 


this needs to be posted on the front lawn of Officer Wilson..

good catch.

----------


## Warlord

> Excuse me?
> 
> How many people need to tell you that the cop who executed him with a barrage of bullets worthy of a firing squad never knew the kid has stolen a box of Swisher Sweets before you stop saying this?  How many people?
> 
> Shall we get the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to sing it for you?  Will it get through then?


He's never going to listen because he worships law enforcement.   He can't grasp that they could execute someone for contempt.  Just like Kelly Thomas was beaten to death AUH20 will never acknowledge police brutality.

----------


## JK/SEA

> He's never going to listen because he worships law enforcement.   He can't grasp that they could execute someone for contempt.  Just like Kelly Thomas was beaten to death AUH20 will never acknowledge police brutality.


thats because he is one. He can deny it, but i'll just call him a liar...so...we travel on this dusty dirty road until someone gives up..or in..

----------


## AuH20

> Excuse me?
> 
> *How many people need to tell you that the cop who executed him with a barrage of bullets worthy of a firing squad never knew the kid has stolen a box of Swisher Sweets before you stop saying this?  How many people?*
> 
> Shall we get the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to sing it for you?  Will it get through then?
> 
> How does something the cop never knew about change the cop's mind?  How?


But Brown did, unless he's suffering from short-term memory loss from the cop angrily gazing at him. Brown was fully aware of what he just done. It's like a bank robber that gets pulled over for speeding. He's not going willingly surrender, which ties into the testimony that there was a struggle.

----------


## Warlord

> thats because he is one. He can deny it, but i'll just call him a liar...so...we travel on this dusty dirty road until someone gives up..or in..


or has family in law enforcement. His argument is basically the perp deserved to be executed.

----------


## Warlord

> But Brown did, unless he suffering from short-term memory loss from the cop angrily gazing at him. Brown was fully aware of what he just done. It's like a bank robber that gets pulled over for speeding. He's not going willingly surrender, which ties into the testimony that there was a struggle.


So you think he deserved to be executed, right? Man, you're SICK AND TWISTED.

----------


## AuH20

> So you think he deserved to be executed, right? Man, you're SICK AND TWISTED.


He chose his own path. No one forced him to rob a store. Strong arm owner. Engage with officer when he could have peacefully gone with him. You're making excuses for acts of free will. People do dumb $#@! everyday and suffer the consequences. Leave the stove on and light a cigarette. Jump out planes without packing their parachute. This isn't any different, but people want to feign outrage because it's the police.

----------


## Warlord

> He chose his own path. No one forced him to rob store. Strong arm owner. Engage with officer when he could have peacefully gone with him. You're making excuses for acts of free will.


No im not excusing free will.  no one, even a peadophile deserves to be executed on the street. You're sick and twisted

----------


## AuH20

> No im not excusing free will.  no one, even a peadophile deserves to be executed on the street. You're sick and twisted


I'm sick and twisted for holding people accountable for their actions? The main protagonist in this entire saga is Michael Brown but in 'Murica it's always someone else.  And if the investigation reveals that Wilson did indeed use excessive lethal force to defend himself then he indeed needs to suffer for his actions as well.

----------


## Smitty

The liberty movement needs a much better cause than a strong arm robber and a mob of looters.

Rand stepped in it when he chose to use the situation to call attention to the militarization of the police,...and the reason it's all over the forum at present is because Rand did so.

Bad timing,...bad judgement,..bad publicity.

----------


## tod evans

> No im not excusing free will.  no one, even a peadophile deserves to be executed on the street. You're sick and twisted


This is what the government we have sitting does...

Trials are a mockery of justice.

They go so far as to murder civilians in other countries with impunity, hell they brag about it...

----------


## thoughtomator

> But Brown did, unless he's suffering from short-term memory loss from the cop angrily gazing at him. Brown was fully aware of what he just done. It's like a bank robber that gets pulled over for speeding. He's not going willingly surrender, which ties into the testimony that there was a struggle.


Of course, the story you would like to be true depends on Brown charging from a distance on an open street a police officer that had already shot at him at least five times and hit him at least once with a high-caliber pistol. It's a concoction that depends not only on a _mens rea_ but also a completely suicidal victim.

If I were the victim's lawyer I'd have you on my list of people to sue for defamation and libel. He would have a slam-dunk case against you.

----------


## AuH20

> The liberty movement needs a much better cause than a strong arm robber and a mob of looters.
> 
> Rand stepped in it when he chose to use the situation to call attention to the militarization of the police,...and the reason it's all over the forum at present is because Rand did so.
> 
> Bad timing,...bad judgement,..bad publicity.


Rand was right about the militarization though but his timing was suspect. At least Oath Keepers didn't take the bait.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The liberty movement needs a much better cause than a strong arm robber and a mob of looters.


No we don't. That these are flawed victims enhances our arguments. ALL people deserve to have their rights respected, regardless of whether they are angelically innocent in all things or not.

I absolutely refuse in any way to assent to a standard that says if your character can be assassinated then any government employee can murder you without consequence.

A little rendezvous with history shows that this situation is not at all unprecedented:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Seider

The parallels of Ferguson to the events leading up to the Boston Massacre are quite startling. The protest that the British put down in Boston that resulted in the Massacre was a protest of the killing of Seider - who, when killed, was actually participating in a rock-throwing mob.

The Founding Fathers didn't require a pre-establishment of innocence in order to recognize a man's inalienable rights, and neither should anyone else.

----------


## AuH20

> *No we don't. That these are flawed victims enhances our arguments. ALL people deserve to have their rights respected, regardless of whether they are angelically innocent in all things or not.
> *


Including Darren Wilson.

----------


## acptulsa

> But Brown did, unless he's suffering from short-term memory loss from the cop angrily gazing at him. Brown was fully aware of what he just done. It's like a bank robber that gets pulled over for speeding. He's not going willingly surrender, which ties into the testimony that there was a struggle.


So, we're back to the handgun that propels a 296 pound body backwards a distance of thirty-five feet, but doesn't break the wrist of the cop who fires it.

Gentlemen, I'll be jumping off this merry-go-round now.  Let me know if intelligent life is ever spotted in this thread.

----------


## Smitty

> No we don't. That these are flawed victims enhances our arguments. ALL people deserve to have their rights respected, regardless of whether they are angelically innocent in all things or not.
> 
> I absolutely refuse in any way to assent to a standard that says if your character can be assassinated then any government employee can murder you without consequence.
> 
> A little rendezvous with history shows that this situation is not at all unprecedented:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Seider
> 
> The parallels of Ferguson to the events leading up to the Boston Massacre are quite startling. The protest that the British put down in Boston that resulted in the Massacre was a protest of the killing of Seider - who, when killed, was actually participating in a rock-throwing mob.
> ...


Maybe Rand should compare the looters of Ferguson to the Patriots of 1776 Boston when he runs for President.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Including Darren Wilson.


That's right, including Darren Wilson.

Too bad you see ONLY rights for Darren Wilson, government employee, and no one else. Your irrational partiality in this case and deliberate obtuseness to actual evidence makes me wonder why exactly you have such overweening sympathy for the murder suspect _to the exclusion of all others_.

----------


## FrancisMarion

Interestingly "apprehended" has not been used in this thread.  That's what Wilson was supposed to do. Nothing more. 

And since this thread is wild with speculation, I'll say this. Something is rotten, otherwise the truth would be disclosed and consequently it would quell the state of emergency.

----------


## Ender

> *I'm sick and twisted for holding people accountable for their actions?* The main protagonist in this entire saga is Michael Brown but in 'Murica it's always someone else.  And if the investigation reveals that Wilson did indeed use excessive lethal force to defend himself then he indeed needs to suffer for his actions as well.


Everybody but the cop, right?

----------


## JK/SEA

> The liberty movement needs a much better cause than a strong arm robber and a mob of looters.
> 
> Rand stepped in it when he chose to use the situation to call attention to the militarization of the police,...and the reason it's all over the forum at present is because Rand did so.
> 
> Bad timing,...bad judgement,..bad publicity.


bad post. Full of biased racial overtones...

----------


## orenbus



----------


## Smitty

> bad post. Full of biased racial overtones...


yeah,..that must be it.

----------


## JK/SEA

AuH20,.. Smitty.....you guys getting time and a half today?...weekends normally pay more if you work weekends...

----------


## AuH20

> Everybody but the cop, right?


The cop will be dispensed justice if he was wrong. Brown is the main catalyst for the entire affair. He wasted his life over goddamn cigars. He thought he could just push his way through life. But there is always a bigger fish somewhere. Cops, gang members.....Someone else would have smoked this joker.

----------


## thoughtomator

> AuH20,.. Smitty..,Orenbus...you guys getting time and a half today?...weekends normally pay more if you work weekends...


Orenbus shouldn't be thrown in with the others. He/she is a good source of information and isn't twisting the situation to exonerate the government.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The cop will be dispensed justice if he was wrong.


What's the weather like on your planet?

How can you possibly type that with a straight face?

You're just engaged in a massive trolling on this issue for $#@!s and giggles, aren't you?

----------


## Smitty

The rationalizations that some people on this site come up with these days are downright cockeyed.

2007 is starting to seem like a long, long time ago.

----------


## JK/SEA

> yeah,..that must be it.


the issue is a kid getting killed for basically nothing is the ISSUE., and the EXCESSIVE force that came later. Thats the issue. Stay focused. Shiny objects always distracts the mentally challenged.

The aftermath is blowback...

----------


## Smitty

> the issue is a kid getting killed for basically nothing is the ISSUE., and the EXCESSIVE force that came later. Thats the issue. Stay focused. Shiny objects always distracts the mentally challenged.
> 
> The aftermath is blowback...


kid=strong arm robber

Keepin' it real,.....keepin' it real,...

----------


## JK/SEA

> Orenbus shouldn't be thrown in with the others. He/she is a good source of information and isn't twisting the situation to exonerate the government.


fixed.

----------


## JK/SEA

> kid=strong arm robber
> 
> Keepin' it real,.....keepin' it real,...


keepin' it real..what a bunch of $#@!in bull$#@!.....you can't be that stupid...really?

----------


## AuH20

> kid=strong arm robber
> 
> Keepin' it real,.....keepin' it real,...


Kid was just minding his own business until the busy body cop shot him in the back numerous times for walking in the street. It's an outrage I tell you.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The rationalizations that some people on this site come up with these days are downright cockeyed.
> 
> 2007 is starting to seem like a long, long time ago.


Excuse me if I begin to wonder if you're the same person who signed up that account in 2007. Because I find someone whose older posts are all about freedom, liberty, Ron Paul, etc. didn't post in a year and comes back for this story exclusively, to serve the state's interest... this is MOST curious.

What occasioned your year-long hiatus from RPF, and what brings you back now?

----------


## JK/SEA

> Excuse me if I begin to wonder if you're the same person who signed up that account in 2007. Because I find someone whose older posts are all about freedom, liberty, Ron Paul, etc. didn't post in a year and comes back for this story exclusively, to serve the state's interest... this is MOST curious.
> 
> What occasioned your year-long hiatus from RPF, and what brings you back now?



hah..i was doing the same thing. Going back over his posts......got a few cop trolls in this thread.

----------


## Smitty

> Excuse me if I begin to wonder if you're the same person who signed up that account in 2007. Because I find someone whose older posts are all about freedom, liberty, Ron Paul, etc. didn't post in a year and comes back for this story exclusively, to serve the state's interest... this is MOST curious.


Lots of curious stuff is going on around here.

----------


## Smitty

It's almost as curious as Democratic Underground these days.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Lots of curious stuff is going on around here.


Yes. Here's a curious item: 




> Yes,..the people pay for the propaganda which misleads them,...which is one of the more ironic things to emerge in a capitalistic society which has started leaning towards totalitarianism.


It is extremely curious that someone who posted that statement quite some time ago is now on the side of the propagandists and totalitarians.

----------


## JK/SEA

> It's almost as curious as Democratic Underground these days.


project much?

----------


## Smitty

I just don't like strong arm robbers and looters.

*shrugg*

Tell me how that's anti liberty.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I just don't like strong arm robbers and looters.
> 
> *shrugg*
> 
> Tell me how that's anti liberty.


but you love the authortarian police state....yeah...tear gas smells like LIBERTY.

shrugg...and...burp...

----------


## Smitty

And by the way,..I'm definitely *me*.

I just see no good reason to be particularly eloquent about the topic.

A strong arm robber pushed his luck and lost.

People rioted because of it.

I don't feel compelled to take the side of either a strong arm robber or a mob of looters to establish my libertarian bona-fides.

----------


## JK/SEA

> And by the way,..I'm definitely *me*.
> 
> I just see no good reason to be particularly eloquent about the topic.
> 
> A strong arm robber pushed his luck and lost.
> 
> People rioted because of it.
> 
> I don't feel compelled to take the side of either a strong arm robber or a mob of looters to establish my libertarian bona-fides.


hold on a second while i put my hip boots on...

----------


## orenbus

Vice News Raw coverage from last night

----------


## Occam's Banana

> The cop will be dispensed justice if he was wrong.


I can't decide if this deserves a facepalm ...



... or a "Laughing Jack" ...



... so I guess I'll just have to settle for both ...

----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

Just posted on reddit.




> My family is from ferguson mo, grandmas house was on Harvey st.
> St. Louis cops have always been oppressive but all things considered I can understand.
> That being said, from the pictures I've seen there are no obvious wounds on the back of mike browns body, I tend to believe the officers side, or at least the third hand version of it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Why is it that the clear-cut cases of Police killing people for absolutely no reason are always met with a yawn, but the cases that are far more murky are blown out into national rage, riots and weeks (if not months) of heavy media coverage?
> 
> Ho-hum:
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ning-to-Patrol


Holy $#@! me, running in reverse, through a cornfield *THIS!!!!*

Cop barges onto private property, owners of which have done nothing wrong, and kills the dog.

Cop blows face off toddler, raiding home for person that didn't live there.

Cop blows away elderly woman for protecting her home against robbers.

Big $#@!ing yawn...

----------


## invisible

> Including Darren Wilson.


I support his rights, too!
He has the right to remain silent.
He has the right to an attorney.
He has the right to a jury trial.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Young black kid killed in polarized town by white cop. It's a made for TV movie. The other, more outrageous cases of police abuse aren't as alluring to Boobus. *It really taps into your sense of white guilt and you can get awfully indignant*.


I take issue with this.

My outrage at militarized cops killing us and our pets on a regular basis knows no racial, class or geographic bounds as far as I'm concerned.

*Anybody*, at *any* meeting with the state's enforcers, could be Mike Browned or Kelly Thomased.

I was just as angry at this as I was over the killing of Erik Scott, which could be justified by the law and order crowd even more handily, due to the fact he *was* armed.

----------


## AuH20

So much for the theories about impropriety....An independent autopsy.

http://time.com/3126608/michael-brow...souri-autopsy/

----------


## AuH20

> I take issue with this.
> 
> My outrage at militarized cops killing us and our pets on a regular basis knows no racial, class or geographic bounds as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> *Anybody*, at *any* meeting with the state's enforcers, could be Mike Browned or Kelly Thomased.
> 
> I was just as angry at this as I was over the killing of Erik Scott, which could be justified by the law and order crowd even more handily, due to the fact he *was* armed.


I don't think you understand. This incident is being explicitly being used to manipulate emotions on a racial level. As you well know, there are 100s upon 100s incidents far worse and more insidious than this very clouded incident, but those don't fit the agenda.

----------


## thoughtomator

> I just don't like strong arm robbers and looters.
> 
> *shrugg*
> 
> Tell me how that's anti liberty.


When you believe criminals don't deserve due process of law and that summary execution at the hands of police is acceptable to you, it is diametrically opposed to liberty.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Maybe Rand should compare the looters of Ferguson to the Patriots of 1776 Boston when he runs for President.


To the "police" and the established order at the time, that is *EXACTLY* what the mobs in Boston were regarded as.

Unruly Mobs.

Looters.

If the word had been coined, they would have been called Terrorists.

----------


## Anti Federalist

I hope they do.




>

----------


## AuH20

> Because they had manipulative race hustlers, waving offers that could not be refused, under their noses.
> 
> *“I'll have those ******s voting Democratic for the next 200 years." - LBJ*


Short term thinking kills. And we see whites falling into this trap as well.

----------


## Smitty

> They did more than that.



So,...you're "good" if the looters in Ferguson start tarring and feathering the shop owners of the area?

As I said earlier,...the rationalizations that are popping up on here are downright cockeyed.

"Patriots tarred and feathered the loyalists,..so anything that happens to the merchants in Ferguson is comparable to the American Revolution!"

You folks need to get a giant economy sized grip.

You're sounding like fools.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> So,...the looters in Ferguson are only looting the "loyalists"?


I have no idea who they are looting, exactly.

Maybe these stores are known as being "cop friendly", passing out free food and coffee and what not.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> LOL, I typed in "raising hell" before I refreshed and saw your post. I would use the "great minds" analogy, but an "old minds" would probably be more appropriate. How old do you have to be to use that term?


Hahahah...middle aged at least.

----------


## Smitty

> I have no idea who they are looting, exactly.
> 
> Maybe these stores are known as being "cop friendly", passing out free food and coffee and what not.


Don't sacrifice your credibility for those looting idiots.

You're getting very close to it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> So,...you're "good" if the looters in Ferguson start tarring and feathering the shop owners of the area?
> 
> As I said earlier,...the rationalizations that are popping up on here are downright cockeyed.
> 
> "Patriots tarred and feathered the loyalists,..so anything that happens to the merchants in Ferguson is comparable to the American Revolution!"
> 
> You folks need to get a giant economy sized grip.
> 
> You're sounding like fools.


*You* asked what similarities there was.

I posted them.

Look, you can dismiss this as "hoodlums in the hood" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that there are more people in prison in the US than any other place on earth, about 30 percent of those are innocent, the police have "militarized" to a level never seen before, police abuse is not limited to just "whomping on the darkies" anymore, people who have to live under these condition are pissed, and this whole system is coming to your front yard, soon.

----------


## orenbus

> So,...you're "good" if the looters in Ferguson start tarring and feathering the shop owners of the area?
> 
> As I said earlier,...the rationalizations that are popping up on here are downright cockeyed.
> 
> "Patriots tarred and feathered the loyalists,..so anything that happens to the merchants in Ferguson is comparable to the American Revolution!"
> 
> You folks need to get a giant economy sized grip.
> 
> You're sounding like fools.


I'm not justifying looting or any other action right now, I was just answering your question regarding the understood and accepted behavior by some of the citizens of Boston during that point in history as you had asked.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Short term thinking kills. And we see whites falling into this trap as well.


Yep, I am completely opposed to short term thinking. The biggest problem with it is that, sometimes, when there is, for example, err, what were we talking about again?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Don't sacrifice your credibility for those looting idiots.
> 
> You're getting very close to it.


That is almost word for word what posters told me over twenty years ago, when I said the same thing about Rodney King.

My credibility will be what it is going to be.

----------


## AuH20

> *You* asked what similarities there was.
> 
> I posted them.
> 
> Look, you can dismiss this as "hoodlums in the hood" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that there are more people in prison in the US than any other place on earth, about 30 percent of those are innocent, the police have "militarized" to a level never seen before, police abuse is not limited to just "whomping on the darkies" anymore, *people who have to live under these condition are pissed,* and this whole system is coming to your front yard, soon.


I think they are largely pissed because they are irrevocably damaged. Not necessarily because of the system. The system was erected to insulate itself from the negative repercussions of it's wayward policies. When the system finally fails, peace and harmony isn't suddenly going to grip the land. There will probably be a great culling and pockets of civilization strewn here & there.

----------


## Smitty

> I'm not justifying looting or any other action right now, .


You're comparing garden variety shop owners in Ferguson to loyalists during the American Revolution.

You know that's not an honest approach to the situation.

Let's all be genuine, here.

Someday, you're going to want to be taken seriously.

This isn't the way to do it.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Hahahah...middle aged at least.


Old enough to coincidentally have this playing on DVD in the background:




> I didn't notice but it had got very dark and I was really,
> Really out of my mind.
> Just then a policeman stepped up to me and asked us said,
> "Please, hey, would we care to all get in line,
> Get in line."
> Well you know, They asked us to stay for tea and have some fun,
> Oh, oh, he said that his friends would all drop by, ooh.
> 
> Why don't you take a good look at yourself and describe what you see,
> ...

----------


## pcosmar

> Don't sacrifice your credibility for those looting idiots.
> 
> You're getting very close to it.


I have never said it was anything but stupid.
Have other observations,, I see a bunch of disarmed people stuck between two armed gangs.

The only question is,, Are the two gangs in competition? or are they working together?

----------


## AuH20

> I have never said it was anything but stupid.
> *Have other observations,, I see a bunch of disarmed people stuck between two armed gangs.*
> 
> The only question is,, Are the two gangs in competition? or are they working together?


Bingo. Inmates and guards (have you noticed that the longer the guards monitor the inmates the more they become like them over time?). And we're stuck waiting for the dam to burst.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I don't think you understand. This incident is being explicitly being used to manipulate emotions on a racial level. As you well know, there are 100s upon 100s incidents far worse and more insidious than this very clouded incident, but those don't fit the agenda.


I'm well aware of that.

I don't control what incident, out of thousands every year, will be the one to push people over the edge. But *when* it happens, I think it behooves all of us to use to the best possible advantage, not "Eh, just those damn knee-grows raising hell again, move along".

You said before, "this isn't the hill to die on".

We don't *get* that choice, if the stars align to have us charge Mount Suribachi, well, get marching soldier.

This is just one skirmish in a massive war on us.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Old enough to coincidentally having this playing on DVD in the background:


Best Album Ever

----------


## thoughtomator

> You do know that the colonists' response was largely to oppressive taxation?


False again. You're pitching a perfect game.

Try reading the Declaration of Independence and you might find that there was a little more to it than taxes.

----------


## orenbus

> You're comparing garden variety shop owners in Ferguson to loyalists during the American Revolution.
> 
> You know that's not an honest approach to the situation.
> 
> Let's all be genuine, here.
> 
> Someday, you're going to want to be taken seriously.
> 
> This isn't the way to do it.


LOL. Show me any post where I compared "garden variety shop owners in Ferguson to loyalists."

You specifically asked if people in Boston looted fellow citizens on a public message board. I assumed because you asked the question you didn't know or didn't remember that they did much worse in your lessons of American history, so I answered your question. How is it this hard for you to understand that you asked a question and I was answering it?

----------


## AuH20

> False again. You're pitching a perfect game.
> 
> Try reading the Declaration of Independence and you might find that there was a little more to it than taxes.


The increased military presence in Boston was directly related to the unpopular response to the Townshend Acts of 1767. The Boston Massacre was a direct outgrowth of such displeasure.

----------


## Smitty

> That is almost word for word what posters told me over twenty years ago, when I said the same thing about Rodney King.
> 
> My credibility will be what it is going to be.


Well,...if Rodney King had engaged in looting the businesses of good Americans, I would have been totally in favor of him getting an ass kicking for it.

Looting the businesses of good American citizens is the issue here,....not Rodney King.

Every looter who gets his ass kicked has it coming.

If a citizen does it,..that's great,..if a cop does it,...good enough.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Well,...if Rodney King had engaged in looting the businesses of good Americans, I would have been totally in favor of him getting an ass kicking for it.


Noted, that you oppose due process of law.

Why are you on Ron Paul forums? Ron Paul believes in inalienable rights and the Rule of Law and you clearly abhor both.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Looting the businesses of good American citizens is the issue here


No it's not.

But I realize to some people it is.

It is not, to me, "the issue".

----------


## Smitty

> LOL. Show me any post where I compared "garden variety shop owners in Ferguson to loyalists."


You posted this video to demonstrate a comparison between the looters in Ferguson to the Patriots of Revolutionary Boston.

So find me a video of the riots in Ferguson,..and point out who you consider to be the "John Hancock" of the bunch.

I'll be right here waiting.

----------


## AuH20

Showtime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3IvCejX9Q8

----------


## AuH20

> You posted this video to demonstrate a comparison between the looters in Ferguson to the Patriots of Revolutionary Boston.
> 
> So find me a video of the riots in Ferguson,..and point out who you consider to be the "John Hancock" of the bunch.
> 
> I'll be right here waiting.


the gentleman who composed this message was a modern day John Hancock.

----------


## Smitty

> Yep, and worse. Which places you *firmly* on the side of the King in the American Revolution.
> 
> Ron Paul supporter, my ass. Who are you really and how did you get access to that account?


Yeah, Buddy!,...me and old George III was just like *this*. (holds up middle and index finger pressed tightly together)

Be serious. It'll only hurt for a little while.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> The increased military presence in Boston was directly related to ...


I read that far and thought you were talking about last year...

----------


## AuH20

And that's a wrap!

----------


## orenbus

> You posted this video to demonstrate a comparison between the looters in Ferguson to the Patriots of Revolutionary Boston.


False. I responded with a video and text saying that the Boston citizens of the time did much worse, to this question that you posted:




> Did they loot their fellow citizens?


"They" meaning Boston citizens prior to the American Revolution.

So at this point I have to unfortunately conclude that one or all of these things are true;

1. You have some serious reading compression skills and are mistaking me with someone else.
2. You like to put words in other peoples mouths and troll for fun.
3. You are embarrassed because your knowledge of American History during this time period is lacking and instead of admitting to it and moving on you feel its better assign points of view that a person doesn't necessarily have just so you can misdirect argument through obfuscation.

In any case I have no interest in continuing this dialogue with you as any reasonable person can read the previous posts and see what occurred.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Well, can't argue with that...

Let us be better than "left" or "right", militarized police are wrong, no matter what.




> And that's a wrap!

----------


## Smitty

> False. I responded with a video and text saying that the Boston citizens of the time did much worse,.


The relevant point you so conveniently omitted was,...the Patriots of Boston did what they did to loyalists in order to gain their independence from the King.

The citizens of Ferguson are doing it to get free $#@!.

There's no comparison to be drawn between "freedom" and a free pair of Air Jordans.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## JK/SEA

> *looks around*
> 
> Seems like you're the last person to continue being an idiot.
> 
> If you get lonely, you can find some kindred spirits at Democratic Underground.
> 
> It's loaded with liberal idiots.


takes one to know one..

neener neener...geez...really?

----------


## Smitty

> I played a vital role in throwing out the tyrant and uber-corporatist Eric Cantor.


Better be careful bragging about that on here.

Somebody will start hollering "anti semite" at you,...start asking about grand dragons and stuff.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Actually on the Credo Live Feed. 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3IvCejX9Q8

----------


## Brian4Liberty

We don't need to resort to Maddow tactics with each other in our debates here. If someone has posted blatantly racist things, then flag the post.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Better be careful bragging about that on here.
> 
> Somebody will start hollering "anti semite" at you,...start asking about grand dragons and stuff.


Good thing we have a militarized police state handy to prevent anybody from hearing offensive words - _thanks to you_, buddy!

----------


## JK/SEA

> We don't need to resort to Maddow tactics with each other in our debates here. If someone is posted blatantly racist things, then flag the post.


if it walks like a duck...and so on...

i know racists when i see them.

----------


## Smitty

Yap,..that's me,...the fuggin' offensive word patrol.

----------


## thoughtomator

> We don't need to resort to Maddow tactics in our debates here. If someone is posted blatantly racist things, then flag the post.


We're like 12 pages in of "Smitty" and "AuH20" creating libelous allegations out of thin air and asserting them to be facts, which is far more offensive than racist statements could ever be.

----------


## Smitty

> We're like 12 pages in of "Smitty" and "AuH20" creating libelous allegations out of thin air and asserting them to be facts, which is far more offensive than racist statements could ever be.


Translation:

Smitty doesn't agree with the majority.

----------


## phill4paul

> Rand endorsed Romney.
> 
> He didn't have to endorse anybody,...but he endorsed Romney.
> 
> Pat yourself on the back.


  Omegerd! Omegerd! *libertarian* cred right there. 



  Bwahahaha!

----------


## JK/SEA

uh-oh...pity party starts over here..>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>0<

----------


## invisible

It's sad to see some of our best remaining original 2007-8 members attacked like this, when they have proven themselves with years' worth of _many_ quality posts.

----------


## AuH20

> Translation:
> 
> Smitty doesn't agree with the majority.


It's not only that. You must be a government paid operative, stormfront member or police union member to even arrive at such a contrary position. It's not even cast as simply arriving at different conclusions. Dangerous aspersions must be associated with your viewpoint.

----------


## JK/SEA

> It's sad to see some of our best remaining original 2007-8 members attacked like this, when they have proven themselves with years' worth of _many_ quality posts.


When you're right you're right, and when you're wrong....and so forth...

call this a learning experience....for them.

----------


## JK/SEA

> It's not only that. You must be a government paid operative, stormfront member or police union member to even arrive at such a contrary position. It's not even cast as simply arriving at different conclusions. Dangerous aspersions must be associated with your viewpoint.


you don't have a view point.

now what?..

----------


## AuH20

> you don't have a view point.


Thank you for the contribution, Benito.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Thank you for the contribution, Benito.


you're welcome Stalin..

----------


## thoughtomator

> Translation:
> 
> Smitty doesn't agree with the majority.


Actually, no, you two have exposed yourselves to real liability to the estate of the deceased and I have been trying to protect the both of you from being so foolish as to extend that liability, as well as attempting to spare the site owners from getting served with a request for your ID.

It is one thing to disagree. It is quite another to libelously defame, and the both of you have done that. It's a real tort which could have serious financial consequences to each of you. Not wanting to see that happen, I strongly recommend you both stick to verifiable facts.

----------


## invisible

I think the goal of some people here is to get this thread moved to HT, and thus out of sight.  Hopefully the mods will simply delete offending posts instead of burying the entire thread in the basement.

----------


## AuH20

> Actually, no, you two have exposed yourselves to real liability to the estate of the deceased and I have been trying to protect the both of you from being so foolish as to extend that liability, as well as attempting to spare the site owners from getting served with a request for your ID.
> 
> It is one thing to disagree. It is quite another to libelously defame, and the both of you have done that. It's a real tort which could have serious financial consequences to each of you. Not wanting to see that happen, I strongly recommend you both stick to verifiable facts.


Bravo, bravo my good man. I sleep easier knowing that you are out there to police the interwebs. More importantly your assertions that certain individuals are libelously defaming others is laughable at best. I already bent you over my knee earlier when you attempted to cast my statements as factually inaccurate but like a rubber ball you keep coming back for more.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*‘Police-Initiated Violence Should Surprise No One’*

http://www.voicesofliberty.com/audio...rprise-no-one/

Updated: August 14, 2014 by Ron Paul

August 14, 2014 – Violence in Ferguson, Mo. is getting a lot of deserved media attention. The militarization of the police has been a topic frequently addressed on this channel. It’s been pointed out that it seems that a culture of violence has invaded all policing activities in the United States. The federal government now has over 100,000 bureaucrats who carry guns.
*
Last year, I made comments on how federal law enforcement personnel closed down Boston by essentially invoking martial law following the bombing at the marathon. My opinion was that it represented a gross overreaction by the police and something that would have never happened just several decades ago.*

Protesters to the police killing an unarmed teenager have been met with tear gas, a substance banned in warfare. Police-initiated violence should surprise no one. NSA spies on everyone without warrants. Drug busts with SWAT teams making mistakes are common. 

*The excessive use of police power should be an expected consequence of big government, which is authoritarian by nature.*

Too many bureaucrats with guns, too many laws, too many regulations, too many prisons—all designed to protect the state. The people’s liberties are forgotten.

As the economy continues to deteriorate, expect the violence to accelerate. The unfairness of the distribution of wealth that is caused by economic intervention is the constant, smoldering issue that can turn a skirmish with the law into something much bigger. When root causes are not understood, emotions can easily take over. A simple, short version of what would help us is:

1. Understand the true nature of civil liberties and the right to own property.

2. Keep government small and the police local.

*3. When a nation is prosperous and the middle class is large, envy and hate are minimized.*

4. Prosperity for the maximum number of people can only be achieved through a free market economy and not by excessive policing of an authoritarian government involved in the redistribution of wealth.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I think the goal of some people here is to get this thread moved to HT, and thus out of sight.  Hopefully the mods will simply delete offending posts instead of burying the entire thread in the basement.



maybe its time for a curfew eh?

----------


## invisible

> maybe its time for a curfew eh?


Well, we've seen exactly this happen many times before, haven't we?

----------


## phill4paul

Love me some Ron Paul...let me read that again.




> *‘Police-Initiated Violence Should Surprise No One’
> 
> http://www.voicesofliberty.com/audio...rprise-no-one/
> 
> Updated: August 14, 2014 by Ron Paul
> 
> August 14, 2014 – Violence in Ferguson, Mo. is getting a lot of deserved media attention. The militarization of the police has been a topic frequently addressed on this channel. It’s been pointed out that it seems that a culture of violence has invaded all policing activities in the United States. The federal government now has over 100,000 bureaucrats who carry guns.
> 
> Last year, I made comments on how federal law enforcement personnel closed down Boston by essentially invoking martial law following the bombing at the marathon. My opinion was that it represented a gross overreaction by the police and something that would have never happened just several decades ago.
> ...

----------


## mad cow

AF,with regard to your post #531,I agree with every word of it.

Now,in all of Ron Paul's copious writings,speeches and youTubes,can you point me to just a single solitary one where he defends looting?

----------


## AuH20

> *3. When a nation is prosperous and the middle class is large, envy and hate are minimized.*
> 
> *4. Prosperity for the maximum number of people can only be achieved through a free market economy and not by excessive policing of an authoritarian government involved in the redistribution of wealth.*


These two should be airdropped en masse on Ferguson.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> AF,with regard to your post #531,I agree with every word of it.
> 
> Now,in all of Ron Paul's copious writings,speeches and youTubes,can you point me to just a single solitary one where he defends looting?


I don't recall that he has ever defended looting.

He *UNDERSTANDS* why, though.




> The unfairness of the distribution of wealth that is caused by economic intervention is the constant, smoldering issue that can turn a skirmish with the law into something much bigger.


And:




> Too many bureaucrats with guns, too many laws, too many regulations, too many prisons—all designed to protect the state. The people’s liberties are forgotten.


And:




> Police-initiated violence should surprise no one.

----------


## AuH20

> AF,with regard to your post #531,I agree with every word of it.
> 
> Now,in all of Ron Paul's copious writings,speeches and youTubes,can you point me to just a single solitary one where he defends looting?


He's never defended looting. It's antithetical to private property rights.

----------


## phill4paul

> I don't recall that he has ever defended looting.
> 
> He *UNDERSTANDS* why, though.


  It's just bat$#@! insane to try and understand the root causes of a disease and through that understanding set a course of corrective action. Bat$#@! insane, I tell ya.

----------


## JK/SEA

> He's never defended looting. It's antithetical to private property rights.



any news on the autopsy?

you keep going back to the blowback....its not the main issue....yet...

----------


## AuH20

> It's just bat$#@! insane to try and understand the root causes of a disease and through that understanding set a course of corrective action. Bat$#@! insane, I tell ya.


And if this disease comes to your storefront, you don't reason with it. That could be a life altering decision.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It's just bat$#@! insane to try and understand the root causes of a disease and through that understanding set a course of corrective action. Bat$#@! insane, I tell ya.


I remember when they called him a terrorist sympathizer for understanding the causes of terrorism and speaking about blowback.

That's what Ferguson is, it is *blowback*, caused by a multitude of actions, mostly government tomfuckery, with a whole group of people for decades now.

To try and dismiss it as "normal or usual upheavals caused by urban savages" is as foolish and short sighted as saying "the Muslims attacked us because of our freedoms".

But yeah, it is insane, much easier to blow them all the $#@! away, amirite?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And if this disease comes to your storefront, you don't reason with it. That could be a life altering decision.


So, you're OK with the GWOT?

Because that is *precisely* the same justification used for the 100 year War on Terror, and DHS and TSA and all the rest of it.

----------


## JK/SEA

> And if this disease comes to your storefront, you don't reason with it. That could be a life altering decision.


shouldn't be a problem as long as cops keep their dicks zipped up, and their guns holstered so some poor kid doesn't get blown away for basically being black..

----------


## AuH20

> I remember when they called him a terrorist sympathizer for understanding the causes of terrorism and speaking about blowback.
> 
> That's what Ferguson is, it is *blowback*, caused by a multitude of actions, mostly government tomfuckery, with a whole group of people for decades now.
> 
> To try and dismiss it as the normal upheavals caused by "urban savages" is as foolish and short sighted as saying "the Muslims attacked us because of our freedoms".


But here's the real downer. The only group who can ultimately change the current social trajectory is the people there themselves. Shocking admission. I know.

----------


## thoughtomator

> But here's the real downer. The only group who can ultimately change the current social trajectory is the people there themselves. Shocking admission. I know.


you got a real bad platitude there buddy

----------


## phill4paul

> And if this disease comes to your storefront, you don't reason with it. That could be a life altering decision.


  I am quite capable of handling my own storefront. I'm confident in my preparedness. Please go on more about how it is YOU need the government to protect you form others.

----------


## AuH20

> So, you're OK with the GWOT?
> 
> Because that is *precisely* the same justification used for the 100 year War on Terror, and DHS and TSA and all the rest of it.


What does this have to do with the GWOT? We're specifically discussing what happens when this disease engulfs innocent individuals in it's wake. It's all fine and dandy identifying the origin of the strain but completely another when it personally arrives at your doorstep in full fury.

----------


## AuH20

> I am quite capable of handling my own storefront. I'm confident in my preparedness. Please go on more about how it is YOU need the government to protect you form others.


That's encouraging to hear. You should not be restricted in defense in your property since the police largely exist to defend commercial operations and large banks.

----------


## orenbus

List of streams, will edit this post as new ones added.

Vice News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgSuZQyaTE

Credo Action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Iv...ature=youtu.be

KARG
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...events/3271930

KMOV local channel 4 (was streaming last night not sure if they will again tonight.
http://www.kmov.com/

Here is a KMOV stream with scanner in the background

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

Local Fox 2 stream

http://fox2now.com/on-air/live-streaming/

Timp Pool reporting for Vice News
http://new.livestream.com/timcast/events/3295551

Curfew begins in an hour and a half.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> What does this have to do with the GWOT? We're specifically discussing what happens when this disease engulfs innocent individuals in it's wake. *It's all fine and dandy identifying the origin of the strain* but completely another when it personally arrives at your doorstep in full fury.


Because it's the same argument, the same justification.

If it is invalid as applied to "terrorism" then it is just as invalid applied to "domestic terrorists" or "urban savages".

As I stated pages ago, I have no fear of moiling mobs *or* Jihadists blowing up my house, killing me or shooting my dog.

I have a *very* real concern that agents of the state may do that.

I contend that this is not a valid choice set: you must have heavy handed militarized police *OR* violent mobs running amok.

I am saying that, just like terrorism, the violent mobs are created *BY* the heavy handed militarized police.

So, you are concerned by the violent mobs, I am concerned about the heavy handed police, obviously the choice is clear, *remove the root cause, the heavy handed police.*

----------


## mad cow

The cure for looting has been known for thousands of years,the Korean shop owners employed it quite successfully during the Rodney King riots in L.A.

Now some of y'all might be worried about root causes and diseases the looters might be suffering from if they kick in your doors but I plan on curing them with an  application of double ought buck.

----------


## thoughtomator

How did "looters" end up replacing the peacefully protesting civilian population in this conversation, again?

----------


## AuH20

> The cure for looting has been known for thousands of years,the Korean shop owners employed it quite successfully during the Rodney King riots in L.A.
> 
> Now some of y'all might be worried about root causes and diseases the looters might be suffering from if they kick in your doors but I plan on curing them with an  application of double ought buck.


It's far too late to play therapist. You are right.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> The cure for looting has been known for thousands of years,the Korean shop owners employed it quite successfully during the Rodney King riots in L.A.
> 
> Now some of y'all might be worried about root causes and diseases the looters might be suffering from if they kick in your doors but I plan on curing them with an  application of double ought buck.


That's assuming you can stay up all night, night after night, week after week.

Of *course*, in the face of an imminent attack, you defend yourself, vigorously.

But at some time, your attackers will get the better of you.

So there is logical reason and need to cause the attacks to cease.

Stomping a police boot on everybody's neck is not the solution either.

----------


## phill4paul

> That's encouraging to hear. You should not be restricted in defense in your property since the police largely exist to defend commercial operations and large banks.


  Thank you. Are you restricted?

----------


## AuH20

> Because it's the same argument, the same justification.
> 
> If it is invalid as applied to "terrorism" then it is just as invalid applied to "domestic terrorists" or "urban savages".
> 
> As I stated pages ago, I have no fear of moiling mobs *or* Jihadists blowing up my house, killing me or shooting my dog.
> 
> I have a *very* real concern that agents of the state may do that.
> 
> I contend that this is not a valid choice set: you must have heavy handed militarized police *OR* violent mobs running amok.
> ...


The violent mobs were created by our decadent  political culture. The police are simply acting as security functionaries that have monetarily benefited from this perverse relationship. They are a symptom of the disease as opposed to the root cause. Hence, the reason why life in this country will become especially interesting when they dissipate into the ether. I foresee a similar situation after which Saddam was dispatched but not quite as savage initially.

----------


## AuH20

> Thank you. Are you restricted?


Sadly yes.

----------


## Occam's Banana

> I don't recall that [Ron Paul] has ever defended looting.
> 
> He *UNDERSTANDS* why, though.





> It's just bat$#@! insane to try and understand the root causes of a disease and through that understanding set a course of corrective action. Bat$#@! insane, I tell ya.





> I remember when they called him a terrorist sympathizer for understanding the causes of terrorism and speaking about blowback.
> 
> That's what Ferguson is, it is *blowback*, caused by a multitude of actions, mostly government tomfuckery, with a whole group of people for decades now.
> 
> To try and dismiss it as "normal or usual upheavals caused by urban savages" is as foolish and short sighted as saying "the Muslims attacked us because of our freedoms".
> 
> But yeah, it is insane, much easier to blow them all the $#@! away, amirite?


Ron Paul and y'all are obviously a bunch of "Blame America Whitey First"ers ...

----------


## phill4paul

> Sadly yes.


 That is sad indeed. Who restricts you and why do you feel the need to follow their directives?

----------


## mad cow

> Stomping a police boot on everybody's neck is not the solution either.


Have I ever favored such a solution?
Has anybody on this website ever favored such a solution?

It does trouble me to think that anybody on this website might favor looting.

----------


## AuH20

> That is sad indeed. Who restricts you and why do you feel the need to follow their directives?


In all likelihood, if I discharge my weapon in a certain self-defense scenario, I can be held liable for a class D felony. So it's a cost benefit analysis depending on the threat.

----------


## phill4paul

> Ron Paul and y'all are obviously a bunch of "Blame America Whitey First"ers ...


  I, for one, hate the $#@! out of Whitey. He was an $#@! in high school that I ended up having to beat ass over not laying off of me and friends. Tried to suck up twenty years later. Told him to f' off. So no I don't care for Whitey.

----------


## phill4paul

> In all likelihood, if I discharge my weapon in a certain self-defense scenario, I can be held liable for a class D felony. So it's a cost benefit analysis depending on the threat.


 I'm sorry you live under that stricture. I do not. I'm extremely happy in my freedom. No cost benefit analysis for me.

----------


## orenbus

Vice News stream is up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgSuZQyaTE

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Have I ever favored such a solution?
> Has anybody on this website ever favored such a solution?


It's difficult to pin anybody down, but there are some, who at the very least, are not in favor of lifting the boot up, lest the Hottentots get the upper hand.




> It does trouble me to think that anybody on this website might favor looting.


I don't "favor" it, I don't want people to engage in it, but I *understand* it and I also see how it has caused everybody to sit up and at least take notice of police abuse, where SWLODs do nothing.

So, I'm not going to rend my garments and kvetch about how awful it all is.

----------


## thoughtomator

The real looters run the government and the individuals who doth protest too much at the "looters" they are monomaniacally focused on are the ones going balls-to-the-wall to defend them.

#StuffIThoughtIdNeverSeeOnRPF

----------


## orenbus

From Vice News

- Amnesty International Rep. on the Vice News stream just asked Captain Johnson about getting permission to observe arrests after midnight curfew comes into effect for human rights violations, he didn't want to answer.
- Surrounding towns has enforced a 10:00pm curfew
- Several Legal observers from the Lawyers Guild on the scene.

Curfew in effect in 45 minutes, still a lot of people on the streets.

----------


## phill4paul

> I don't "favor" it, I don't want people to engage in it, but I *understand* it and I also see how it has caused everybody to sit up and at least take notice of police abuse, where SWLODs do nothing.
> 
> So, I'm not going to rend my garments and kvetch about how awful it all is.


  And let's not forget the fact that there were those in that community that stood up to the random thug violence and at the same time they stood up to the militarized  violence. There were individuals that stood up to violence of government construct on both ends of the scale. That's $#@!ing winning in my book. And with those people I would stand side by side any day.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Vice News stream is up
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgSuZQyaTE



Captain Johnson, Missouri State Police just said (paraphrase) to the man in the bandana: There were forty FBI men in ties walking the streets of Ferguson today looking for answers.   

LOL.  Yeah, they're looking for _something_ alright.

And Johnson and a lot of others are now looking to be on the right side of history. .

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> From Vice News
> 
> - Amnesty International Rep. on the Vice News stream just asked Captain Johnson about getting permission to observe arrests after midnight curfew comes into effect for human rights violations, *he didn't want to answer*.
> - Surrounding towns has enforced a 10:00pm curfew
> - Several Legal observers from the Lawyers Guild on the scene.
> 
> Curfew in effect in 45 minutes, still a lot of people on the streets.


He's playing good cop/bad cop.  $#@! him.

----------


## phill4paul

> Captain Johnson, Missouri State Police just said (paraphrase) to the man in the bandana: There were forty FBI men in ties walking the streets of Ferguson today looking for answers.   
> 
> LOL.  Yeah, they're looking for _something_ alright.
> 
> And Johnson and a lot of others are now looking to be on the right side of history. .


  Johnson did a good job initially. He lost it in the press conference when he wanted to be out with the people yet gave deflected answers to direct questions. IMHO. I could tell he had lost it and knew there would be riots last night.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Johnson did a good job initially. He lost it in the press conference when he wanted to be out with the people yet gave deflected answers to direct questions. IMHO. I could tell he had lost it and knew there would be riots last night.


He's not one of the people.  He's the enemy.

----------


## CPUd

LOL that VICE stream is this thread IRL

----------


## AuH20

The vice feed with their guide is hilarious. Clueless white journo has never been in the hood.

----------


## orenbus

> LOL that VICE stream is this thread IRL


LOL!

26 more min...

----------


## mad cow

> It's difficult to pin anybody down, but there are some, who at the very least, are not in favor of lifting the boot up, lest the Hottentots get the upper hand.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't "favor" it, I don't want people to engage in it, but I *understand* it and I also see how it has caused everybody to sit up and at least take notice of police abuse, where SWLODs do nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm not going to rend my garments and kvetch about how awful it all is.


You are assuming that people will look at riots and looting and come to the same conclusion that you do as to a cure.

The riots and looting and death and destruction they caused from 1964-1968 dwarf what's happening in Ferguson,dwarf doesn't really cover it,in fact.

One of the outcomes of this was the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Be careful what you wish for.

----------


## AuH20

The National Lawyers Guild. LAWLS

----------


## phill4paul

> He's not one of the people.  He's the enemy.


  Certainly. He portrayed himself that way. When he dodged questions the people saw him for what he was. IMHO.

----------


## CPUd

He said there are different factions involved, they all have different plans for what to do when the curfew begins.

----------


## orenbus

Wow journalist just called the Liquor store parking lot the green zone, it's already starting to sound like military action is in the air.

Everyone moving to final positions before midnight, including the journalists...

- Rain is picking back up, pretty hard.
- Good group of protestors look like they are about to stand their ground.
- Journalists getting ready.
- Local news trucks are gone.

----------


## CPUd

The guy with his face covered said those cars pulling in were agitators.

Some of them are going to get arrested on purpose so they can fight the curfew in court.

VICE crew is looking for a better place to set up.

----------


## AuH20

A blazing star cut down in his prime. Big Mike...the lost tracks.

https://soundcloud.com/bigmike-jr-brown

He's got a song entitled "Body Bag." Eerie stuff.

----------


## JustinTime

> I'm sorry you live under that stricture. I do not.


Oh yes you do. Its not the way I want it, but the truth is if you defend yourself and the media decides to latch ahold of the incident, you might as well change your name to "Zimmerman".

----------


## thoughtomator

multiple feeds I've been monitoring just cut out... and rumors of gunshots are spreading

----------


## JK/SEA

Matt sent me this link..

http://www.infowars.com/update-fergu...g-riot-police/

----------


## orenbus

Vice News stream seems down at the moment here is another in the mean time;

http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow

----------


## CPUd

VICE guy said they were taking the stream down and moving to a place where the cops are less likely to see the cameras.


Anyone know where is that site that streams police radio channels?

----------


## AuH20

RT has a drone in the air.

----------


## orenbus

Vice News stream back up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgSuZQyaTE

- Stream was down due to rain effecting the equipment.
- RT and Al-Jazerra both have crews still on the streets.

----------


## AuH20

This VICE Crew looks unarmed. Damn fools.

----------


## AuH20

the Big Mike Memorial.

----------


## CPUd

HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT

----------


## AuH20

This is so anti-climactic. Bundy Ranch was so suspenseful.

----------


## thoughtomator

I think tonight's main event is being rained out...

----------


## CPUd

> This is so anti-climactic. Bundy Ranch was so suspenseful.


I'd rather not see something happen at this point.

----------


## AuH20

There may be action after all...History beckons.

https://twitter.com/AmyKNelson/statu...70429951938561

----------


## CPUd

St. Louis County Pct. 1:

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/17807

----------


## mad cow

The torrential rains are probably a bigger factor in mellowing this situation out than anything else at the moment.

----------


## AuH20

Here we go. This could really happen. Cars are being positioned to block road.

----------


## orenbus

- Crowd starting to advance on the cops
- Community leader with Peacekeeper vest begging crowd to stop advancing...
- Few Police starting to moving, maybe moving into a Flank position on the crowd.

----------


## AuH20

Cops looking to outflank.

----------


## CPUd

Police are surrounding the protestors

----------


## thoughtomator

Whatever is going to happen is probably going to happen pretty soon.

----------


## AuH20

https://twitter.com/AmyKNelson/statu...75643647950848

----------


## JustinTime

> Good video, and good to see them defending their business. Unfortunately, they still seem to be a bit confused, as they still expect the Police to defend their business. And it took two nights in a row of their business being looted to finally catch on? Slow learners there. At least they are finally getting it right.


They support the protestors but want the cops to defend their business... talk about stupid fuqqing hypocrites.

----------


## AuH20

This lady is so annoying.

----------


## thoughtomator

Woman tried to calm and disperse the crowd. Don't think she got through to many. Powder keg right now if the cops move in.

----------


## orenbus

- Police falling back from the stores they were protecting.

----------


## AuH20

This may be worse than when they opened Al Capone's safe.

----------


## CPUd

> - Police falling back from the stores they were protecting.


This is an interesting tactic to diffuse confrontation.  Protesters are confused about what to do.

----------


## thoughtomator

Cops massing...

----------


## 2young2vote

So the protest has, what, 40 people?

----------


## thoughtomator

Protestors made a serious tactical error in establishing a fixed position.

----------


## CPUd

> So the protest has, what, 40 people?


It's not a lot.  Some people left about 10 minutes ago.

----------


## AuH20

This peacekeeper needs to jump in a dumpster.

----------


## orenbus

Protestors in two groups, 200 or so protestors,
cops are moving in with trucks

----------


## thoughtomator

Here it comes... cops moving in

----------


## AuH20



----------


## jclay2

Police stating their threats about "Failing to Comply".

----------


## thoughtomator

Police issuing curfew arrest threats... protestors thinning out but a few look like they're spoiling for a fight.

----------


## 2young2vote

Haha, sounds like half the crowd is journalists.  Vice just said 5 activists kneeling, and 15 journalists taking pictures of them.  haha.  60% press.  Media bias at work.  Making mountains out of mole hills.

----------


## thoughtomator

if the cops really want to disperse this crowd, there's a proven method - classical music

----------


## AuH20

The press sucks. The police should kick their ass. LOL

----------


## AuH20

I'd rather the press get beaten than protesters.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The press sucks. The police should kick their ass. LOL


that's looking like more and more of a possible outcome by the moment

----------


## orenbus

-Tear Gas, 5 volleys....
-Molotov Coctail just got thrown at chop sueys resturant that caught on fire, some of the other protestors put it out
-people speeding off in their cars...
- multiple shots, possible rubber bullets.

----------


## jclay2

Tear Gas

----------


## thoughtomator

there they go... gassing the press and protest crowd together

----------


## thoughtomator

getting surreal... green hats are "legal observers"... protestors put out a fire from someone's Molotov cocktail as cops keep firing gas

----------


## orenbus

Possible live fire - bullets being fired near journalists

----------


## jclay2

Vice crew just hit the deck.

----------


## thoughtomator

Looks like there's about to be a gunfight between the ghetto trash and the cops

they'll probably fire 10,000 rounds and hit a total of four dogs and three toddlers

----------


## thoughtomator

Now that I consider it, Al Capone's vault wouldn't have been so bad if Geraldo got tear gassed.

----------


## AuH20

This Red's Barbecue is getting incredible pub.

----------


## JK/SEA

1st Amendment trumps curfews.

Anyone arrested can sue.

----------


## CPUd

> 1st Amendment trumps curfews.
> 
> Anyone arrested can sue.


That's why some of them were coming out tonight to get arrested.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> -Tear Gas, 5 volleys....
> -Molotov Coctail just got thrown at chop sueys resturant that caught on fire, some of the other protestors put it out
> -people speeding off in their cars...
> - multiple shots, possible rubber bullets.


Where's the live stream?

----------


## JK/SEA

> That's why some of them were coming out tonight to get arrested.


you got it...

----------


## orenbus

> Where's the live stream?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgSuZQyaTE

http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow

Although I think the peak is over at this point, unless they decide to relocate back into the neighborhoods and the protesters decide to regroup.

----------


## orenbus

So I as many as you have serious issues with MSM and a lot of people in Journalism, but there is definitely something to be said about the type of journalist that are constantly looking to make sure the public is informed of what is going on, on the ground even if it means putting themselves in dangerous conditions to make sure the actions taken by the government become known to us in the public.

----------


## CPUd

Reports of someone getting shot but no way right now to confirm.  The VICE crew is going to meet up with their local guide and taking the feed down unless something happens.

----------


## JK/SEA

i thought it was chicken$#@! of the journalists to get BEHIND the police line....

Maybe somebody with balls got up to the front action. God knows what those $#@! cops are doing...or did...

----------


## Natural Citizen

Militarized US police face-off with Ferguson protesters LIVE UPDATES*

TIMELINE:* Militarized US police face-off with Ferguson  protesters

----------


## orenbus

Yea I agree most of the Journalists were hiding behind the police lines like pussies, Vice News was in the mix though during most of it, but that isn't surprising if you look at their youtube channel they put out news stories from places that most MSM are too scared to even think about trying to cover. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/vicenews/videos

Vice got gassed a few times in the process tonight and potentially almost got shot by what some were saying was live fire from allegedly rioters shooting back at the cops, and it sounds like their night isn't over they are going to try and hook back up with their guide to get down street to cover what is going on, you'll never see Gary Franchi at Next News, CNN, FOX or MSNBC do any of that.

All the streams seem off now just KMOV now

http://www.kmov.com/home/KMOV-Live-S...129813793.html

Here is a KMOV stream with scanner in the background

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

Local Fox 2 stream

http://fox2now.com/on-air/live-streaming/

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And let's not forget the fact that there were those in that community that stood up to the random thug violence and at the same time they stood up to the militarized  violence. There were individuals that stood up to violence of government construct on both ends of the scale. That's $#@!ing winning in my book. And with those people I would stand side by side any day.


Yes, this, exactly.

----------


## CPUd

> i thought it was chicken$#@! of the journalists to get BEHIND the police line....
> 
> Maybe somebody with balls got up to the front action. God knows what those $#@! cops are doing...or did...


The VICE guy was talking about staying with the protesters, but that changed once he heard a bullet whiz by.  They hit the ground and after getting back up they stayed put until the police moved in and told them to go back to the green zone.  


One local woman was talking about the agitators tonight being a revolutionary group from Chicago.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Reality TV.

----------


## orenbus

Edit: Not promoting infowars, just trying to find the more interesting videos out there and had to post the black superman doll the guy had.

----------


## orenbus

Shots fired

----------


## orenbus

Story from Thursday, hadn't seen it posted anywhere earlier.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Keep them coming.

I haven't been able to follow this one too closely.

----------


## orenbus

Vice News raw coverage of events in Ferguson tonight

----------


## invisible

Many thanks to those who have been providing updates, photos, videos, and descriptions of what's going on with the live streams!

----------


## orenbus

Man shot during curfew

----------


## FindLiberty

A forced curfew? 

WTF, that one will fail faster than the authoritarian brain fart called segregation.
(When your only tool is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail).

Maybe Ferguson should try applying more Liberty instead of more and more tyrannical force and manipulation.
Let those citizens take back their lives, homes, businesses, streets and town. 

The underling tensions and unrest problems in Ferguson probably go back several decades or longer, but these recent violent looters and shooters are the bad apples that need to be immediately identified and arrested. (this might ultimately include a few "authorities" too).

Please adjust that bass-ackwards appearing racial ratio of that entire Ferguson police force (and any future jury) to match that of the community _because it just looks all wrong now._ Those recent on-the-street interviews are dominated by good responsible people that seem genuinely interested in keeping the peace in their community. They would make ideal candidates for the job(s).

But that's all just way too hard for any "authorities" to ever comprehend.

+++

And the autopsy shows..... what?  Let's get to the truth, and hurry please.

----------


## JK/SEA

anyone up for going to Ferguson?.....seems like there are  legit reasons for doing so.

----------


## JustinTime

> A forced curfew? 
> 
> WTF, that one will fail faster than the authoritarian brain fart called segregation.


So the forced curfew could last nearly a century? 




> Please adjust that bass-ackwards appearing racial ratio of that entire Ferguson police force (and any future jury) to match that of the community [I]because it just looks all wrong now.


And here we go, all the platitudes about how we're all just people and race doesn't matter goes out the window. 

"This is our tribe's territory, no whiteys allowed." Maybe they should run out all the stupid white protestors too.

----------


## AuH20

> So the forced curfew could last nearly a century? 
> 
> 
> 
> And here we go, all the platitudes about how we're all just people and race doesn't matter goes out the window. 
> 
> "This is our tribe's territory, no whiteys allowed." Maybe they should run out all the stupid white protestors too.


Changing the racial composition of the guards isn't going to alter the core problem. Crime won't magically go down. Where is Malcolm X when you need him?

----------


## moostraks

> Are you talking about yourself?
> 
> Now I'm a police lover? Really? I wonder if the Pakistani store owner was a damned police lover as well. It would explain why he called 911. Bastard!  I don't know where to start......I feel like I stumbled into a time portal that took me back to the Spanish Inquisition.


I did not say you were a police lover, I said the police were heroes in this situation according to your incessant need to excuse their responsibility whilst latching on anything to demonize the unarmed dead man.




> The violent mobs were created by our decadent  political culture. The police are simply acting as security functionaries that have monetarily benefited from this perverse relationship. They are a symptom of the disease as opposed to the root cause. Hence, the reason why life in this country will become especially interesting when they dissipate into the ether. I foresee a similar situation after which Saddam was dispatched but not quite as savage initially.





> In all likelihood, if I discharge my weapon in a certain self-defense scenario, I can be held liable for a class D felony. So it's a cost benefit analysis depending on the threat.


Looking at your viewpoint,s it seems to illuminate your fear based support for the police which you view as materialistic security guards. The police are a legalized gang who operate with impunity. They are thugs by and large, many times hired for their low IQ, and their determination to be the alpha dog. The threat they currently pose to the citizenry with their military toys is greater imo than the hood thugs. It seems as though you see them as a last means of defense but it was the action of the uniformed gang that began this situation because one idiot flexed his muscles. Ego tripping bullies don't stop and there is evidence this area has a police force which is over top abusive.

So while you are busy defending the police for your self perceived fears of your situation, take a moment to realize the people reacting in Ferguson are dealing with their own very real life problems according to their own set of perceptions and reality and it is likely they do not see these officers as materialistic security guards but violent thugs that operate with impunity. 

I live in the hood, and I hate the police and fear them more than I fear your average criminal. I know what both sides are capable of as we had a rash of violence break out here due to an officer shooting one of the locals. Neither side got my support but I understood why things went down the way they did and I sure didn't pick the lesser of two evils by supporting increased police pressure. Wrong is wrong and it shouldn't be justified because the police don't give a crap about the citizens but are like pit bulls that serve a specific interest so unless you are a part of that select privileged class you are likely to be chopping your nose off to save your face through your willingness to chose sides in these gang wars.




> And let's not forget the fact that there were those in that community that stood up to the random thug violence and at the same time they stood up to the militarized  violence. There were individuals that stood up to violence of government construct on both ends of the scale. That's $#@!ing winning in my book. And with those people I would stand side by side any day.


well said again!!!

----------


## moostraks

> Changing the racial composition of the guards isn't going to alter the core problem. Crime won't magically go down. Where is Malcolm X when you need him?


They need people who live and are part of the neighborhood and any police force should be the same way. Many city positions where I live are operated in that manner to command a sympathy when decision making. From what I have read/heard through the media from the locals the hostility comes from the disconnect to city services.

----------


## acptulsa

> They need people who live and are part of the neighborhood and any police force should be the same way. Many city positions where I live are operated in that manner to command a sympathy when decision making. From what I have read/heard through the media from the locals the hostility comes from the disconnect to city services.


Which is why the growth of the federal government's power is so disturbing, and is coinciding with unrest even where people don't even notice that's what's going on.  Because there's no bigger disconnect than the one between Washington, D.C. and any living civilized human being.

----------


## JustinTime

> They need people who live and are part of the neighborhood and any police force should be the same way.


As long as we aren't talking about whites, God forbid some racist white guy saying a white neighborhood needs a mostly white police force. 

And wait a second, I thought we needed to get rid of all police? I thought that was the problem here?




> From what I have read/heard through the media from the locals the hostility comes from the disconnect to city services.


So youre saying its like Detroit recently, a bunch of moochers don't pay their water bill, get threatened with it being cut off, and now they are angry?

Good God, they want the small business owners and workers in town to cough up the money to cover the shortfall too I guess? 

I 100% oppose militarization of police, hate police brutality, Ive defended Marlene Pinnock, Ersula Ore and Kelly Thomas, but Michael Brown was just a thug scumbag. Most of the a-holes out in the streets crying over him are similar, and taking advantage of the chaos to continue their scumbag ways, or just stupid dupes who have a Pavlov's dog reaction to anything police do.

----------


## AuH20

> So youre saying it like Detroit recently, a bunch of moochers don't pay their water bill, get threatened with it being cut off, and now they are angry?
> 
> Good God, they want the small business owners and workers in town to cough up the money to cover the shortfall too I guess? 
> 
> I 100% oppose militarization of police, hate police brutality, Ive defended Marlene Pinnock, Ersula Ore and Kelly Thomas, but Michael Brown was just a thug scumbag. Most of the a-holes out in the streets crying over him are similar, and taking advantage of the chaos to continue their scumbag ways, or just stupid dupes who have a Pavlov's dog reaction to anything police do.


There is a reason why they are operating in their neighborhoods. For one, they are typically crime ridden which the crime statistics illustrate. Secondly, it's a profitable enterprise for whatever enforcement unit is assigned to. The remedy is to take away the excuse for the police presence. The police are the symptom of the problem as opposed to the primary reason for their plight. Take care of your own communities with preemptive action and the police will leave for somewhere else.

----------


## acptulsa

> Take care of your own communities with preemptive action and the police will leave for somewhere else.


They did anyway.  They left the business owners to fend for themselves and retired to protect their stations and their own asses.  After igniting this brush fire, they built their little firebreak around their own place only and let the lawlessness that wouldn't have happened without their input take over the city.  They did not serve, they did not protect, they did not take responsibility, they tried in vain to cover their asses and they let their jurisdiction turn into Beirut, America.

They didn't even try to apologize, whether this thing was their fault or not, as a tactic to preserve the rule of law in their jurisdiction.  As simple as that would have been.  Apparently they were more concerned with either their liability or their pride to take this simple and likely effective step.  And whether you agree or not, the majority of their constituents, like the majority of the people here and probably across the nation, do not think they've made any effort to be transparent and forthcoming, either.

If they refuse to pull these tools out of the box, simple and inexpensive as a little information and an apology are, to protect their community from devolving into a flaming, smoke-choked mockery of civilization, then how can anyone say they're committed to law and order with a straight face?  How can anyone say with a straight face that the taxpayers of Ferguson are getting anything like their money's worth?

Yes, the people of Ferguson, Missouri are completely to blame for this mess.  But not because they raised a Michael Brown, nor because they rioted in preference to just tamely saying that a Michael Brown's very life is unworthy of their concern.  They are responsible because they handed out authority to incompetents, psychotics and/or fools and then refused to take it away from them.

They got the republic they deserved.  And if we were to listen to you, we'd get the republic we would deserve, too.

----------


## moostraks

> As long as we aren't talking about whites, God forbid some racist white guy saying a white neighborhood needs a mostly white police force. 
> 
> And wait a second, I thought we needed to get rid of all police? I thought that was the problem here?
> 
> 
> 
> So youre saying it like Detroit recently, a bunch of moochers don't pay their water bill, get threatened with it being cut off, and now they are angry?
> 
> Good God, they want the small business owners and workers in town to cough up the money to cover the shortfall too I guess? 
> ...


This sounds like a FOX news rant^^^ Nice moves there justifying police brutality and dismissing any protests because you _know_ why. Pavlov's dog reaction to anything the police do? Why because the officer was right to kill him in the manner in which he did? 

From the community would mean reflective of the community whatever the community may be, you seem to have some issues. I say this since your rebuttal to city services not being reflective of the community is to bring in an unrelated discussion of Detroit to try and deflect from an reasonable discussion being put forth by those protesting who have legitimate gripes.

----------


## thoughtomator

> This sounds like a FOX news rant^^^


One can easily tell who here is drinking the neo-con Kool-aid from FOX, because _nobody_ else, left right or middle, is defending the police.

----------


## moostraks

> There is a reason why they are operating in their neighborhoods. For one, they are typically crime ridden which the crime statistics illustrate. Secondly, it's a profitable enterprise for whatever enforcement unit is assigned to. The remedy is to take away the excuse for the police presence. The police are the symptom of the problem as opposed to the primary reason for their plight. Take care of your own communities with preemptive action and the police will leave for somewhere else.


Just  how effective have you been at enabling your own rights for self protection? The police state is growing due to an agenda of power grabbing and not so simply reversed as you seem to postulate. No, they won't just leave. They must be run out by people who realize the group is a legalized gang that operates against the community's best interest.

----------


## Valli6

> Please adjust that bass-ackwards appearing racial ratio of that entire Ferguson police force (and any future jury) to match that of the community [I]because it just looks all wrong now.


The reality is most blacks have no desire to work in law enforcement. This won't happen any time soon and it can't be forced.

Eric Holder's DOJ thinks the solution is to sue police departments (NJ, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and others), forcing them to reject those who score highest on entry exams (because they tend to be white) and lower the physical standards (because they disqualify women). This just means that they are hiring stupider people who often aren't physically capable of performing their jobs. Have you seen the video of 2 NYC female cops trying to arrest a young guy? But google the words _"police"_ and _"diversity"_ and you will see that every police department in the country is clamoring to establish themselves as "the most diverse" - NYC included!




By nature of the work (having "power" and authority), law enforcement has ALWAYS attracted a huge number of mentally unstable applicants to begin with. Adding low intelligence to the mix, while simultaneously militarizing them is a disaster!

----------


## AuH20

> One can easily tell who here is drinking the neo-con Kool-aid from FOX, because _nobody_ else, left right or middle, is defending the police.


Neoconservative Kool Aid? What does that mean? Hypothetically, if modern police are indeed dissolved, what will you call citizens who group together to protect their collective interest? It will still be a variation of the police. Michael Brown steals from store owner and the village unit responds to the call. I guess in due time, those independent villagers will be derisively referred to as pigs and righteous indignation shall reign.

----------


## AuH20

> Just  how effective have you been at enabling your own rights for self protection? The police state is growing due to an agenda of power grabbing and not so simply reversed as you seem to postulate. No, they won't just leave. They must be run out by people who realize the group is a legalized gang that operates against the community's best interest.


Do you see whole precincts located in Amish communities? It makes you think? Right? Take away the incentive. Stand proudly on your own two feet. Control your own destiny.

----------


## acptulsa

You've responded to two posts newer than mine now, AuH2O.

Not chicken, are you...?

----------


## AuH20

> They did anyway.  They left the business owners to fend for themselves and retired to protect their stations and their own asses.  After igniting this brush fire, they built their little firebreak around their own place only and let the lawlessness that wouldn't have happened without their input take over the city.  They did not serve, they did not protect, they did not take responsibility, they tried in vain to cover their asses and they let their jurisdiction turn into Beirut, America.
> 
> They didn't even try to apologize, whether this thing was their fault or not, as a tactic to preserve the rule of law in their jurisdiction.  As simple as that would have been.  Apparently they were more concerned with either their liability or their pride to take this simple and likely effective step.  And whether you agree or not, the majority of their constituents, like the majority of the people here and probably across the nation, do not think they've made any effort to be transparent and forthcoming, either.
> 
> If they refuse to pull these tools out of the box, simple and inexpensive as a little information and an apology are, to protect their community from devolving into a flaming, smoke-choked mockery of civilization, then how can anyone say they're committed to law and order with a straight face?  How can anyone say with a straight face that the taxpayers of Ferguson are getting anything like their money's worth?
> 
> Yes, the people of Ferguson, Missouri are completely to blame for this mess.  But not because they raised a Michael Brown, nor because they rioted in preference to just tamely saying that a Michael Brown's very life is unworthy of their concern*.  They are responsible because they handed out authority to incompetents, psychotics and/or fools and then refused to take it away from them.*
> 
> They got the republic they deserved.  And if we were to listen to you, we'd get the republic we would deserve, too.


They don't want to take it away from them. It's too taxing. People want someone else to do their work for them. It's the American way. Everyone is outraged and no one wants to do a damn proactive thing about it. It's always some external cause.

----------


## acptulsa

> They don't want to take it away from. It's too taxing. People want someone else to do their work for them. It's the American way. Everyone is outraged and no one wants to do a damn proactive thing about it. It's always some external cause.


So, you admit that their little republic city government isn't representing them?  And aren't denying that it's full of incompetents, psychotics and/or fools?

Well.  Progress.

----------


## AuH20

> So, you admit that their little republic city government isn't representing them?  And aren't denying that it's full of incompetents, psychotics and/or fools?
> 
> Well.  Progress.


They are trapped within a maze of blame and displacement which these city governments exploit. I think when we look back maybe the worst thing for black folks was when they came up North after Reconstruction & the CRA and loaded up into these crowded cities as opposed to their former proud agricultural existence. Cities tend to corrupt the soul as Jefferson warned. Many of these cities are essentially authoritarian roach motels that very few can escape from.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Attention Black People of Ferguson, Missouri!*

Thomas DiLorenzo	

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...uson-missouri/

Trust in your local, state, and federal governments!  More importantly, keep voting in every election to legitimize and validate all that they do.  And just forget about the fact that it was that very government that shot and killed a young black man in cold blood just last week.  Forget about the fact that it is the federal government that has militarized your local black-teenager-murdering police with machine guns, tanks, sniper rifles, night-vision goggles, scopes, mine-resistant armored trucks, and other weaponry of a modern invading army.   The government will take care of everything.  And dont forget to vote.

That is the moronic message delivered to the people of Ferguson by the idiotic congresscritter Lacy Clay and his trusty sidekick the Reverennnnnnnnnnnnd Jesse Jackson.  (Thanks to Roland W. for the link).

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> If they were dumb enough to grab his holster, you simply chalk this one up to Darwin. It's the same reason you don't stick your hands through the bars of the tiger enclosure at the local zoo. Then again we don't have all the details. At first glance, this story does logically fit unless the cop is mentally unstable.





> 


Where does Occam's Razor fall here?

----------


## JustinTime

> This sounds like a FOX news rant^^^


Oh yeah? Well your posts sound like an MSNBC rant, so nyah nyah.  Now lets have a grown up discussion. 




> Nice moves there justifying police brutality and dismissing any protests because you _know_ why.


Im not justifying police brutality, I withheld my judgment until I saw saw more evidence, and I may yet change my mind, just as I did with the Trayvon Martin case.  




> Pavlov's dog reaction to anything the police do? Why because the officer was right to kill him in the manner in which he did?


Based on what Ive seen so far I can easily believe that Brown attacked the cop.    




> From the community would mean reflective of the community whatever the community may be, you seem to have some issues. I say this since your rebuttal to city services not being reflective of the community is to bring in an unrelated discussion of Detroit


Detroit is related, a pack of deadbeats there have refused to pay their water bills, now are being threatened with being cut off, and then they gripe about city services.




> let  to try and deflect from an reasonable discussion being put forth by those protesting who have legitimate gripes.


There are legit gripes, but Mike Brown's fate doesn't seem like one.

----------


## orenbus

What weapons are police using in Ferguson?  by: Washington Post

----------


## orenbus

Ferguson Police: "Bring it ,You $#@!ing Animals!" To Protesters

----------


## orenbus

Justice Department to Perform Autopsy on Michael Brown
http://abcnews.go.com/US/justice-dep...ry?id=25013338




> The Justice Department will perform its own autopsy on the body of Michael Brown as part of its independent investigation into the Missouri teenager's shooting death, officials announced today.
> 
> "Due to the extraordinary circumstances involved in this case and at the request of the Brown family, Attorney General Holder has instructed Justice Department officials to arrange for an additional autopsy to be performed by a federal medical examiner," the Justice Department said in a statement today.
> 
> The autopsy will take place "as soon as possible." 
> 
> In addition to the Justice Department's autopsy, the St. Louis County Medical Examiner and forensic pathologist Michael Baden, who was hired by the Brown family, are conducting their own autopsies.
> 
> According to preliminary results from the county's autopsy, Brown died from gunshot wounds. Justice Department officials will also consider that autopsy in their investigation.
> ...

----------


## JK/SEA

you mean the body hasn't been cremated yet?....

wonders never cease.

----------


## orenbus

From Wednesday (again not promoting Infowars or Silver solution thing they are advertising, only version of this angle on YT)

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> From Wednesday (again not promoting Infowars or Silver solution thing they are advertising, only version of this angle on YT)


lol! ...Police firing rubber bullets and tear gas grenades on Al-Jazeera America and INFOWARS reporters... Here's the official posted rebuttal by St. Charles Police Department

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Orwell would be so proud.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> you mean the body hasn't been cremated yet?....
> 
> wonders never cease.



or buried at sea

----------


## orenbus

From Last Night

----------


## JustinTime

> From Last Night


0:23 "black power". 

Later on he points and says "Why are you speaking for him, why are you speaking for him? You should be speaking for "us"? What do you want to bet he is pointing at some white guy and when he says "us" he means black people. Not the law, not all the people, just blacks.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## aGameOfThrones

> 


throwing some sort of projectile while wearing the American flag is the American way.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> throwing some sort of projectile while wearing the American flag is the American way.


don't forget the bag-o-chips in his left hand.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> throwing some sort of projectile while wearing the American flag is the American way.


Especially in this case, where he is throwing a tear gas grenade back at the cops.

----------


## orenbus

In Powerful Speech, Cpt. Johnson Apologizes to Brown Family, Promises to Stand by Ferguson
(video at link)
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/in-powerf...d-by-ferguson/




> In a confident and impassioned speech, Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson spoke of the need for communication, understanding, and faith at Sunday’s Rally for Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO.
> 
> Johnson began by apologizing to Brown’s family. “I wear this uniform, and I should stand up here and say that I’m sorry,” Johnson said to a long round of applause. “I’ll tell you right now, I came in today and saw people cheering and people clapping; this is what the media needs to put on TV.”
> 
> Johnson replaced Ferguson Police Chief Jon Belmar after several days of over-militarized police presence led to a crisis in the St. Louis suburb. Johnson cited his link to the community, pledged to protect its right to protest, and brought it back to the personal bond he feels with his own family, and how he sees the experience shaping the bond for the families of the Ferguson community.
> 
> “When this is over, I’m gonna go in my son’s room,” Johnson said. “My black son, who wears his pants saggy, wears his hat cocked to the side, got tattoos on his arms. But that’s my baby, and we all oughta be thanking the Browns for Michael. Because Michael’s gonna make it better for our sons, so they can be better black men.”

----------


## thoughtomator

> don't forget the bag-o-chips in his left hand.


If only he did it while sitting on a couch, he would be the Greatest American Ever!

----------


## JK/SEA

> 


DON'T TREAD ON ME

----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

> 


This song was made for that image. RIP King.

----------


## Lucille

> This song was made for that image. RIP King.


Ferguson is not a ghetto.

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2014/0...copypaste.html




> ...If you've never been to Ferguson, don't take the media portrayals of it as "ghetto town" seriously. It's a nice, normally peaceful, lower-middle-class suburb (apropos of the race-baiting, it's not "as black" as the town I lived in for 12 years, 4 or 5 miles to the south). I've driven every last one of Ferguson's streets and probably sold ice cream to the victim when he was a young kid.
> 
> Ferguson is the kind of town where it takes a lot to get a crowd out on the street facing down armed thugs with badges.


Knapp also has a few questions and a good suggestion:

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2014/0...ECyKyAqm2eZ.99




> The St. Louis County Police Department should be suppressed and disbanded as a Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organization. Its only substantive activities are the operation of large-scale protection rackets and theft schemes across St. Louis County, Missouri.
> 
> In the spirit of mercy, lengthy prison sentences for organized criminal activity and violations of US Code, Title 18, Sections 241 and 242, should probably only be imposed on the top police leadership and on St. Louis County prosecutor Robert P. McCulloch and a few of his mob lieutenants. Other SLCPD employees could be left unmolested, perhaps excepting lifetime bans on working in law enforcement or government in Missouri.
> 
> Ditching the completely unaccountable county police department and returning to an elected sheriff/deputy system certainly wouldn't fix all the problems in St. Louis County but that, along with institution of a civilian police review board with the power to investigate, issue subpoenas pursuant to investigations, and refer cases of alleged police abuse to grand juries, would be a start.

----------


## AuH20

> Ferguson is not a ghetto.
> 
> http://knappster.blogspot.com/2014/0...copypaste.html


Section 8 housing usually denotes the ghetto. Ferguson fits the bill in that respect. Poor blacks are being offloaded into declining suburbs like Ferguson so commercial real estate outfits can move them off valuable inner city plots. 

http://www.unz.com/isteve/ferguson-i...section-8-era/




> These days, big cities don’t want to accommodate the black poor anymore; they want them to leave. *The powers that be prefer for poor blacks to leave town with Section 8 rent subsidy vouchers that go further in declining suburbs like Ferguson. For example, Hanna Rosin’s 2008 Atlantic cover story American Murder Mystery documented how homicide rates were declining in central Memphis and rising in inner suburbs due to demolition of old housing projects and subsidized relocation of their tenants out of the city.
> *
> Poor blacks are the biggest Hot Potato in modern America. Liberal white urbanites realize today that their ancestors made a terrible mistake in the Postwar era by ceding much of the most valuable urban land in America to poor blacks. So they are offloading poor blacks on the less powerful, such as residents of second rate suburbs and of undistinguished small towns. But for this process, in which trillions of dollars of real estate values are at stake, to proceed smoothly without complaints from the less well connected about what is coming their way, it’s important to Control Discourse, to periodically demonize various minor league white people for engaging in pattern recognition.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

The idea that you get drugs anytime, anywhere is another fairy tale that gets repeated over and over again.

Buying and selling "illegal" drugs has a lot in common with any other business transaction.  The buyer wants to know the seller on some level, whether personally or through a common friend.  The buyer wants to have confidence in what he is buying, just like when you buy something at the store.  Your product could range from the highest quality to the lowest crap.  It could even be fake, just like buying from a store.

The seller also wants to know the buyer on some level.  He wants to know that you're not lice, a punk that will burglarize him later, somebody who runs his mouth, a tattler, a nut who is going to beat him, etc.  Buyers also have to be aware of the same things.

So yes, I suppose you could buy something from some street imbecile who is practically advertising on the corner, but I guess I can shop at the dollar store too.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## thoughtomator

something is going down tonight already

----------


## Antischism



----------


## orenbus

Yep, protesters and police clashing already cnn live stream for anyone that needs it.

http://www.livenewschat.eu/breaking/

- police moving in on protesters, telling them to disperse or face arrest, this is happening well before the curfew.
- tear gas and smoke being used.

----------


## Antischism

Livestream: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...events/3271930

----------


## orenbus

Vice News cut off from flash point, trying to find other stream to give us more details on what's going on.

----------


## orenbus

- People in a car just drove up in front of police and they all gave them the finger and drove away.

----------


## mosquitobite

> And if they can't get home before curfew, those will be the first ones arrested, while the looters are allowed to do their thing.


If we have any liberty folk stuck - I'm about 5 hours away and have an extra bedroom with a futon bed you can crash on til this craziness subsides!

----------


## AuH20

Black male shooting into the crowd. Another Darwin Award winner in their midst? Government op?

----------


## CPUd

>

----------


## James Madison

> You're delusional or willfully ignorant if you don't think the narrative of the "angry black man"/stop and frisks don't play a role in how cops handle minorities. Shoot first, ask questions later. You don't want those "black savages" killing you first. It absolutely is a race issue.


Is it not the case that blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes, particularly poor blacks? You would act the same around a white meth addict, right? Like it or not, stereotypes do exist for a reason and certain demographics (black or white) are more likely to injure your person than others. It's a play on the fight-or-flight instinct where being able to assess the threat level of a stranger is life or death.

And black savages? $#@!in' really, bro? No, really. Is that a joke?

----------


## JK/SEA

> I wasn't aware I'd stumbled onto HuffPo. Why bring race into this? Oh, that's right...pushing the government-sanctioned narrative.


i know you aren't that stupid.

IF you had been keeping up, there are posters in here who use veiled comments with the racist point of view that blacks=ghettoes=drugs=lootings=culture. Does this equal all black people?...does it include white people? 67% are Blacks in Ferguson...VEILED racism is still racism...why are posters in here FIXATED at the side issue of the MINOR crime of SHOP LIFTING, as if this was enough justification to blow this kid away...(the strong arm label was concocted by racist cops and prosecutors) and apparently supported RPF members.

----------


## hardrightedge

Dorian Johnson admitted they were in the store and cigars were stolen...

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> There were reports that Brown may have given them to Dorian Johnson. There was a blurb about it. Need to verify.


Please do.  Please verify that somebody documented Brown handing off a box to Johnson at any point during their walk or encounter.

----------


## AuH20

> Is it not the case that blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes, particularly poor blacks? You would act the same around a white meth addict, right? Like it or not, stereotypes do exist for a reason and certain demographics (black or white) are more likely to injure your person than others. It's a play on the fight-or-flight instinct where being able to assess the threat level of a stranger is life or death.
> 
> And black savages? $#@!in' really, bro? No, really. Is that a joke?


Unfortunately, there are different threat assessment levels and they have more to do with class as opposed to solely race.

----------


## presence

> *Destaynee*      ‏@*NaturallyDes*  1m                                  police officers not wearing their badges in #*Ferguson*  or anywhere else is the modern day white sheet over the face


..

----------


## JK/SEA

> So where are these cigars?  What happened to them?


why?..need some smokes?

i don't have em..

AF, you got em?

anyone?

----------


## James Madison

> i know you aren't that stupid.
> 
> IF you had been keeping up, there are posters in here who use *veiled comments* with the racist point of view that blacks=ghettoes=drugs=lootings=culture. Does this equal all black people?...does it include white people? 67% are Blacks in Ferguson...VEILED racism is still racism...why are posters in here FIXATED at the side issue of the MINOR crime of SHOP LIFTING...(the strong arm label was concocted by racist cops and prosecutors) and apparently supported RPF members.


All this screams is "confirmation bias" and circular reasoning.

You first accept the premise that this is a racial-charged shooting by alleging the cops are 'racists'. Thus, it follows that anyone defending the cops is also a racist, despite no evidence to support this. Since you have already accepted that such posters must be racists, ambiguous (or 'veiled' as you call them) comments are automatically screened and misconstrued to support your original claim: that this shooting is racial-charged.

It's like magic, except with more $#@!.

----------


## AuH20

> i know you aren't that stupid.
> 
> IF you had been keeping up, there are posters in here who use veiled comments with the racist point of view that blacks=ghettoes=drugs=lootings=culture. Does this equal all black people?...does it include white people? 67% are Blacks in Ferguson...VEILED racism is still racism...why are posters in here FIXATED at the side issue of the MINOR crime of SHOP LIFTING, as if this was enough justification to blow this kid away...(the strong arm label was concocted by racist cops and prosecutors) and apparently supported RPF members.


Surely you can't be that obtuse? Black crime is largely a socioeconomic issue prevalent in these inner city neighborhoods. Hence the reason why all blacks can't all be criminals. Certain criteria must be present for someone to embark upon a life of crime, with of course a few outliers bucking the trend. 

Secondly, strong armed robbery is not shoplifting. Strong armed robbery is contingent on using enough force to make your escape possible with the stolen goods, which the late Mister Brown did indeed do. In fact, he threatened the shopkeeper in a menacing fashion seconds later. That can be in no way interpreted as 'shoplifting.'

----------


## JK/SEA

> All this screams is "confirmation bias" and circular reasoning.
> 
> You first accept the premise that this is a racial-charged shooting by alleging the cops are 'racists'. Thus, it follows that anyone defending the cops is also a racist, despite no evidence to support this. Since you have already accepted that such posters must be racists, ambiguous (or 'veiled' as you call them) comments are automatically screened and misconstrued to support your original claim: that this shooting is racial-charged.
> 
> It's like magic, except with more $#@!.


ahh..i see..so you're telling me race had zero input into any of this...mmmkay...

here that sound?...its a 'whooosh' going over your head.

----------


## James Madison

> ahh..i see..so you're telling me race had zero input into any of this...mmmkay...


Yes.




> here that sound?...its a 'whooosh' going over your head.


No, that 'whooosh' is the sound of you waving a white flag.

----------


## JK/SEA

[QUOTE=AuH20;5620425]You can't be that obtuse? Black crime is largely a socioeconomic issue prevalent in these inner city neighborhoods. Hence the reason why all blacks can't all be criminals. Certain criteria must be present for someone to embark down on a life of crime, with of course a few outliers bucking the trend. 

Secondly, strong armed robbery is not shoplifting. Strong armed robbery is contingent on using enough force to make your escape possible, which the late Mister Brown did indeed do. In fact, he threatened the shopkeeper in a menacing fashion seconds later. That can be in no way interpreted as 'shoplifting.'     
/QUOTE]



if you stretch something far enough, you can make it fit sometimes...

----------


## thoughtomator

> Surely you can't be that obtuse? Black crime is largely a socioeconomic issue prevalent in these inner city neighborhoods. Hence the reason why all blacks can't all be criminals. Certain criteria must be present for someone to embark upon a life of crime, with of course a few outliers bucking the trend. 
> 
> Secondly, strong armed robbery is not shoplifting. Strong armed robbery is contingent on using enough force to make your escape possible with the stolen goods, which the late Mister Brown did indeed do. In fact, he threatened the shopkeeper in a menacing fashion seconds later. That can be in no way interpreted as 'shoplifting.'


True, yet that has nothing to do with the main issue at hand, which is that *people are sick and tired of having crime "solved" by gunning people down in the street judge jury and executioner style*.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> No, that 'whooosh' is the sound of you waving a white flag.


thats all ya got?...

lol

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> You're willfully ignorant if you don't think the narrative of the "angry black man"/stop and frisks don't play a role in how cops handle minorities. Shoot first, ask questions later. You don't want those "black savages" killing you first. It absolutely is a race issue.


So a better example of police abuse would be where the police kill a white person for no reason?

----------


## AuH20

> True, yet that has nothing to do with the main issue at hand, which is that *people are sick and tired of having crime "solved" by gunning people down in the street judge jury and executioner style*.


Well, hopefully we will find out if Wilson did indeed do what you described. If he did, he deserves to rot in a jail. If it is proven that Brown tried to run him through the pavement after prior warnings, the perspective changes.

----------


## JK/SEA

> True, yet that has nothing to do with the main issue at hand, which is that *people are sick and tired of having crime "solved" by gunning people down in the street judge jury and executioner style*.


yeah but.....strong arm stuff, and walking in the street stuff, you know....what else could the cop do?...

----------


## Antischism

> Is it not the case that blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes, particularly poor blacks? You would act the same around a white meth addict, right? Like it or not, stereotypes do exist for a reason and certain demographics (black or white) are more likely to injure your person than others. It's a play on the fight-or-flight instinct where being able to assess the threat level of a stranger is life or death.
> 
> And black savages? $#@!in' really, bro? No, really. Is that a joke?


Are you really comparing a meth addict with a black person? I didn't realize being born black predisposed you to certain behaviors. The police have no business making snap judgments based on the color of a person's skin. You can't even look at a chat or YouTube comments without people dehumanizing blacks or being blatant racists. Whether you want to admit it or not, there are many people who assign a low value on the life of black men and women who wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if they were murdered by cops or jailed for petty offenses (or murdered for petty offenses). You better believe the police certainly place lower value on blacks, especially if they're poor.

What the $#@! are statistics going to do for the unarmed victims of police brutality? "Well, black people appear to be more violent due to this graph I'm holding, so I feared for my life!" What next, are cops going to cite self-defense because they saw some graphs that said they were more likely to die on the line when confronting black people? They're going to shoot at people with darker skin because they've been pounded over the head for years by the media conditioning them to fear the black man? Thug this, thug that, savages, hoodies, hood rats, etc. all the dog-whistle politics. Can't say n!gger, let's use these blanket terms to dehumanize black people.

There absolutely is institutional racism and it's the social attitude that's pervasive which continues to give it a platform. Black people serve longer terms for committing the same crimes and have had their communities destroyed by the War on Drugs. This incident in Ferguson has made it very clear to me that certain people are all about holding government accountable and being against police until black people start fighting back at the system that has discriminated against and mistreated them for decades. They wanted to take away gun rights when they protested once before, now they want to character assassinate and exonerate the police because they don't want to take the side of a black person. Because apparently, black people are so savage that they're always guilty or deserving of the bullets lodged in their brains by the piggly wigglies. "Nuke them all," they say... just as they chant when America goes to $#@! over another country full of brown people.

----------


## AuH20

> Are you really comparing a meth addict with a black person? I didn't realize being born black predisposed you to certain behaviors. The police have no business making snap judgments based on the color of a person's skin. You can't even look at a chat or YouTube comments without people dehumanizing blacks or being blatant racists. Whether you want to admit it or not, there are many people who assign a low value on the life of black men and women who wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if they were murdered by cops or jailed for petty offenses (or murdered for petty offenses). You better believe the police certainly place lower value on blacks, especially if they're poor.
> 
> What the $#@! are statistics going to do for the unarmed victims of police brutality? "Well, black people appear to be more violent due to this graph I'm holding, so I feared for my life!" What next, are cops going to cite self-defense because they saw some graphs that said they were more likely to die on the line when confronting black people? They're going to shoot at people with darker skin because they've been pounded over the head for years by the media conditioning them to fear the black man? Thug this, thug that, savages, hoodies, hood rats, etc. all the dog-whistle politics. Can't say n!gger, let's use these blanket terms to dehumanize black people.
> 
> There absolutely is institutional racism and it's the social attitude that's pervasive which continues to give it a platform. Black people serve longer terms for committing the same crimes and have had their communities destroyed by the War on Drugs. *This incident in Ferguson has made it very clear to me that certain people are all about holding government accountable and being against police until black people start fighting back at the system that has discriminated against and mistreated them for decades. They wanted to take away gun rights when they protested once before, now they want to character assassinate and exonerate the police because they don't want to take the side of a black person.* Because apparently, black people are so savage that they're always guilty or deserving of the bullets lodged in their brains by the piggly wigglies. "Nuke them all," they say... just as they chant when America goes to $#@! over another country full of brown people.


Black people should claim independence and take their own territories independent of the white majority. Your screed shows that there are people on both sides than cannot coexist due to extreme racist feelings. Too much distrust that has been sown and amplified by government. I have no problem with a mutual divorce. It's probably better than the torturous merry-go-round that we have been subjected to.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> why?..need some smokes?
> 
> i don't have em..
> 
> AF, you got em?
> 
> anyone?


No, I'm just looking for more internet "reports" when these questions are asked.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Black people should claim independence and take their own territories independent of the white majority. Your screed shows that there are people on both sides than cannot coexist due extreme racist feelings. Too much distrust. I have no problem with a divorce.


wow...so now you're dispensing advice to a race of people as though you were some deity....

----------


## JK/SEA

> No, I'm just looking for more internet "reports" when these questions are asked.


gotcha...

i think the cop took em, and handed them out to his buddies in the locker room...

----------


## AuH20

> wow...so now you're dispensing advice to a race of people as though you were some deity....


Yes. Forcing people to live together that apparently don't like each other is neither logical nor healthy. And Antischism makes some valid points, though he is discounting the racist feelings on the other side. It's just as illogical and narrowminded there as well.

----------


## Antischism

> So a better example of police abuse would be where the police kill a white person for no reason?


Are white people targeted by stop and frisks? Are white people dehumanized and called 'thugs', 'savages', etc. almost everywhere you look on social media? Were white people enslaved in this country and considered only part human? Are white people a disenfranchised minority? Is there a history of the media painting white people as angry, murderous thugs? Do white people have to deal with people crossing to the other side of the street or clutching their purses simply for being white? Do white people often get told they're "one of the good ones" as if to claim whites are generally inferior? Are white people subject to longer prison terms for committing the same crimes?

Come on, you're smarter than this. In the collective conscious of many, black people are of lesser value and should be feared—not unlike a couple of decades ago, just less blatant. Obviously white people can be victims of police brutality, no one is saying they can't be. It's a problem that knows no boundaries, but it hits a lot harder to those of color. You must realize the things black people have to put up with or read, right? Or how they're targeted by cops for "looking suspicious," right? You do realize racism is still a huge problem, correct?

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> gotcha...
> 
> i think the cop took em, and handed them out to his buddies in the locker room...



I could ask a lot of questions like this and some people would be all too willing to fill in all the blanks.

----------


## CPUd

VICE crew going to try and "wander off" from the media area.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I could ask a lot of questions like this and some people would be all too willing to fill in all the blanks.


i saved them the trouble...

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> i saved them the trouble...


??

----------


## CPUd

LOL they found the paddywagon.  Cops don't like them filming people getting arrested.

----------


## TheTexan

Hey so, the black kid who got shot, did he, like, rob a gas station or something or was that all BS? 

I took @mikebrown off my twitter feed a few days ago so I don't really know what's going on anymore...

----------


## CPUd

Asking one of the cops:
"Are they police or military?", "You guys wear camo?"



Official line is that someone was throwing Molotov cocktails, people on the ground saying that is BS.

----------


## thoughtomator

> yeah but.....strong arm stuff, and walking in the street stuff, you know....what else could the cop do?...


At the very least we are owed a prompt and truthful explanation of why a citizen encounter resulted in a dead citizen in 180 seconds or less.

----------


## TheTexan

> Asking one of the cops:
> "Are they police or military?", "*You guys wear camo*?"


The camo probably isn't helpful 98% of the time, but in the 2% of cases where the camo helps, it makes 100% of the difference.  The camo has probably saved a cops' life more than once, just sayin!

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> autopsy results seem to confirm this woman's story...imo
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzBdY6WXeRE



So this is an interview from a woman who identifies herself as Wilson's friend.  This is a woman who is relating a story from Wilson's girlfriend.

Or, the police could just release the police report of events documented by Wilson himself.

----------


## thoughtomator

> VICE crew going to try and "wander off" from the media area.


The images of the chained and confined men protesting that they had been arrested for nothing were creepy.

----------


## thoughtomator

> The camo probably isn't helpful 98% of the time, but in the 2% of cases where the camo helps, it makes 100% of the difference.  The camo has probably saved a cops' life more than once, just sayin!


I'm sure it blends in perfectly over by the Chop Suey House.

----------


## JK/SEA

as to the 'strong arm' allegation...did not the clerk rush towards Brown AFTER just getting a small grab?...seems the clerk wasn;t THAT fearful.....why would anyone in their right mind rush towards a guy 2 times your size....

shoplifting it is.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> as to the 'strong arm' allegation...did not the clerk rush towards Brown AFTER just getting a small grab?...seems the clerk wasn;t THAT fearful.....why would anyone in their right mind rush towards a guy 2 times your size....
> 
> shoplifting it is.


Using the threat of violence to take something is a robbery.

If you wish to go the shoplifting route, he ought to have been charged with assault and menacing as well.

----------


## orenbus

Tonight:

----------


## CPUd

I am betting after that cop takes them to their car, he will follow them out of town.

She was acting like she was not real sure where the car is, to get the cop to drive her around town more.

----------


## thoughtomator

They are literally going to be sending the National Guard now.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

> They are literally going to be sending the National Guard now.


Yep, it's official.

Some people reportedly got shot in the last hour.

A lot of the main roads are blocked off.

----------


## orenbus

Photographer says Ferguson police "need to shoot some people"

----------


## mad cow

> Yep, it's official.
> 
> Some people reportedly got shot in the last hour.
> 
> A lot of the main roads are blocked off.


You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

----------


## orenbus

Missouri governor orders National Guard to Ferguson after latest night of clashes


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/18...s-report-says/



> Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon ordered National Guard troops to the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson early Monday after authorities used tear gas to clear the streets of protesters hours before a midnight curfew took effect for a second consecutive day, while a private autopsy on the unarmed black teen who was fatally shot by a white police officer reportedly showed six gunshot wounds, including two in the head. 
> 
> "Tonight, a day of hope, prayers, and peaceful protests was marred by the violent criminal acts of an organized and growing number of individuals, many from outside the community and state, whose actions are putting the residents and businesses of Ferguson at risk," Nixon said in a statement released by his office. "I am directing the highly capable men and women of the Missouri National Guard to assist ... in restoring peace and order to this community."
> 
> As night fell, another peaceful protest quickly deteriorated after marchers pushed toward one end of a street. Police pushed them back by repeatedly firing tear gas, and the streets were empty well before the curfew took effect at midnight.
> 
> Authorities said they were responding to reports of gunfire, looting, vandalism and protesters who hurled Molotov cocktails.
> 
> "Based on the conditions, I had no alternative but to elevate the level of response," said Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol, who is command in Ferguson.
> ...

----------


## FindLiberty

Stefan Molyneux presents a collection of details the MSM should be reporting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pr1...EGUiBC252GHy3w   ~40 minutes

----------


## orenbus

Vice News raw coverage of tonight

----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd



----------


## mosquitobite

> There were reports that Brown may have given them to Dorian Johnson. There was a blurb about it. Need to verify.


That was in the original report about the robbery and matches the surveillance video - but it also shows Dorian putting them back on the counter.  Same eye witness told police the store owner told Brown he had to pay before he could pass the cigars back to his friend.  Apparently that set off this scenario and matches the video as well.

When you're in a convenient store if the clerk scans your item and hands it to you - if you hand it to a friend or to your kid do they tell you "you have to pay for that first"?  Because I've not once been told that.

----------


## green73

*AUTOPSY: Ferguson teen shot six times; Twice in head*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us...t-6-times.html

----------


## Constitutional Paulicy

> 


Cool. I rarely miss an episode of this show.

----------


## moostraks

> Then how come most of what I believe never jives with Fox news? I have no idea what Fox is even saying on these events, but if its something similar to what I think, so what? Lets deal with what I actually believe and why its right or wrong, and leave the childish "You sound like a..." out of it, okay? 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it doesn't apply to whites, you may not believe that, but it doesn't. If anyone publicly said "Majority white towns ought to have majority a white police force." They'd be rode out of town on a rail.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone said people were upset with city services, I think it was actually you. Whoever said it, that's exactly what's happening in Detroit. Whats different about it? The name? 
> ...


I elaborated why I made the comment re:FOX news so you understood what I took offense with, from your retort sounds like you still listen to their drivel as you would need to in order to know you disagree. I have no idea what they are pimping on this specific issue but I know the method and it is a largely older predominately white base that can be motivated by fear based fascism for inner city disputes pretty much the way you are summarily dismissing any who contradict the official narrative. 

So you still want to hold to the legitimacy of an argument of demanding free water (in a different state) equals bias shown in the "justice" system being disputed here? Priceless...police, das, judges, guess I should have typed it out for you as they are all city services but I didn't think someone in a liberty forum would be this disingenuous in order to pimp the official narrative. People complain about my being so verbose in explanations but it is largely due to run ins with manipulative people that I try to avoid any misunderstanding. Yet you want to make it my fault you misinterpreted city services in this instance regarding this issue to mean the folks in Ferguson's protests are equivalent to demanding free water. It ain't like any of these folks have a right to gripe about higher taxes and an abusive police force cause everyone knows city folks are all on welfare and don't pay any taxes. Smh...

And even more interesting is that you are still complaining about the hire from locals position because white folks need white officers. Ya see if you hire from locals you ain't looking at their color, they have to live in the district and that's that. There isn't anything to really argue or make a production out of about it unless the policy is completely blatant it is being manipulated to pull in a specific type and race should not be on the forms. Have a time frame of how long a person must have been a resident and you will eliminate almost all discussion. 

The fact that you can't see police brutality is possibly because you don't live there but the residents are sure making hay about it if you took the time to listen to some of the protesters. The fact they have another not so distant case of police brutality that was publicized sure make one pause to think especially when they went after the guy for bleeding on their uniforms, wth? It shows a mindset of what type of an agency you are dealing with that would do such a thing.

----------


## moostraks

> Black people should claim independence and take their own territories independent of the white majority. Your screed shows that there are people on both sides than cannot coexist due to extreme racist feelings. Too much distrust that has been sown and amplified by government. I have no problem with a mutual divorce. It's probably better than the torturous merry-go-round that we have been subjected to.


Classy...how very Abraham Lincoln of you!

----------


## familydog

> Stefan Molyneux presents a collection of details the MSM should be reporting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pr1...EGUiBC252GHy3w   ~40 minutes


Let's not bring rationality into this tragedy. I mean, we are talking about police here. It's not like the officer could be innocent or something. Or, rather it's not like we should wait until more facts come in before we lynch someone.

Please don't post things that jive with my biases against police.

----------


## AuH20

> Classy...how very Abraham Lincoln of you!


Actually, I was thinking along the lines of Malcolm X who wrote extensively about the benefits of black separatism. I don't think you need a PhD to see where this is headed. This has all the makings of Yugoslavia redux. Dwindling resources, decades of resentment on both sides, an authoritarian government crumbling apart...

----------


## thoughtomator

> Let's not bring rationality into this tragedy. I mean, we are talking about police here. It's not like the officer could be innocent or something. Or, rather it's not like we should wait until more facts come in before we lynch someone.
> 
> Please don't post things that jive with my biases against police.


The guilt or innocence of the officer is not actually the main issue here. The main issue is the government's posture and actions - suppression of evidence, suppression of media, paramilitary gear acquisition and deployment, reckless and wanton use of force, false arrests, double standard in treatment of a suspect and victim.

Even if the police officer is innocent, so many of his peers aren't and have gotten away with it - with no justice or hope thereof forthcoming - that when the PD reacts in this way it sets the expectation that another coverup of government malfeasance is under way. The bias is there because of the endless train of abuses, not as a matter of arbitrary and unreasoning prejudice.

The real revelation here is just how widespread is public awareness that the Rule of Law in this country is gone.


WRT Molyneux he doesn't seem to be aware of a third witness and many of the priors on the PD side of things. When the whole Martin/Zimmerman thing went down I concluded that it was two jerks who ran into each other and one ended up dead - where nobody's in the right, there's simply a winner and a loser of the confrontation - and it's looking like the same type of scenario here.

----------


## RonPaulMall

> That was in the original report about the robbery and matches the surveillance video - but it also shows Dorian putting them back on the counter.  Same eye witness told police the store owner told Brown he had to pay before he could pass the cigars back to his friend.  Apparently that set off this scenario and matches the video as well.
> 
> *When you're in a convenient store if the clerk scans your item and hands it to you - if you hand it to a friend or to your kid do they tell you "you have to pay for that first"?  Because I've not once been told that*.


No, but I don't live in a dangerous, high crime area, nor do I ever venture in to such areas so my experiences, and the experiences of anybody that isn't that particular store clerk in that particular store are irrelevant. And you are latching on to the least important aspect of the recording.  The witness in the background says they were both in the truck, that Brown ran away, and then that Brown ran back. This is inconsistent with the alleged accomplice to robbery's assertion that Brown was shot in the back while trying to surrender and consistent with the officer's account of being bum rushed.

And now we have the autopsy report that the family, not the sate, commissioned and it is saying all shots came from the front.

----------


## JustinTime

> I elaborated why I made the comment re:FOX news so you understood what I took offense with, from your retort sounds like you still listen to their drivel as you would need to in order to know you disagree. I have no idea what they are pimping on this specific issue but I know the method and it is a largely older predominately white base that can be motivated by fear based fascism


Older white people's concerns are always "fear based fascism" aren't they? Black peoples concerns are legit. 

Does it occur to you that perhaps you've been brainwashed by whatever type of media you're into? 

Like Ive said before, lets drop all the "You sound like one of those..." and discuss what we actually believe. 




> for inner city disputes pretty much the way you are summarily dismissing any who contradict the official narrative.


If you mean the Ferguson PD's story, I lean that way because of the evidence Ive seen. Now the official media story about the gentle giant gunned down as he walked to gramma's , I doubt that for the same reason.   




> So you still want to hold to the legitimacy of an argument of demanding free water (in a different state) equals bias shown in the "justice" system being disputed here? Priceless...police, das, judges, guess I should have typed it out for you as they are all city services


I think you were purposely trying to confuse the issue, usually when people say "city services" they mean water, garbage pickup, etc. If the problem is specifically the police, just say police. 




> but I didn't think someone in a liberty forum would be this disingenuous in order to pimp the official narrative.


Not everyone here thinks every cop is automatically guilty. I treat them the same way I treat citizens, sometimes they can defend themselves if the situation warrants. The badge makes no difference to me. 




> People complain about my being so verbose in explanations but it is largely due to run ins with manipulative people that I try to avoid any misunderstanding. Yet you want to make it my fault you misinterpreted city services in this instance regarding this issue to mean the folks in Ferguson's protests are equivalent to demanding free water. It ain't like any of these folks have a right to gripe about higher taxes and an abusive police force cause everyone knows city folks are all on welfare and don't pay any taxes. Smh...
> 
> And even more interesting is that you are still complaining about the hire from locals position because white folks need white officers. Ya see if you hire from locals you ain't looking at their color, they have to live in the district and that's that.


Some poster actually said "race"! If you want Ill go back over the thread and link to the specific post. 




> The fact that you can't see police brutality is possibly because you don't live there but the residents are sure making hay about it if you took the time to listen to some of the protesters. The fact they have another not so distant case of police brutality that was publicized sure make one pause to think especially when they went after the guy for bleeding on their uniforms, wth? It shows a mindset of what type of an agency you are dealing with that would do such a thing.


I don't know how many times I have to say this, but one more time:
There might well be past incidents where Ferguson PD have abused the people there, Im merely saying the Michael Brown incident isn't looking like one of them.

----------


## James Madison

> Are you really comparing a meth addict with a black person? I didn't realize being born black predisposed you to certain behaviors. The police have no business making snap judgments based on the color of a person's skin. You can't even look at a chat or YouTube comments without people dehumanizing blacks or being blatant racists. Whether you want to admit it or not, there are many people who assign a low value on the life of black men and women who wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if they were murdered by cops or jailed for petty offenses (or murdered for petty offenses). You better believe the police certainly place lower value on blacks, especially if they're poor.
> 
> What the $#@! are statistics going to do for the unarmed victims of police brutality? "Well, black people appear to be more violent due to this graph I'm holding, so I feared for my life!" What next, are cops going to cite self-defense because they saw some graphs that said they were more likely to die on the line when confronting black people? They're going to shoot at people with darker skin because they've been pounded over the head for years by the media conditioning them to fear the black man? Thug this, thug that, savages, hoodies, hood rats, etc. all the dog-whistle politics. Can't say n!gger, let's use these blanket terms to dehumanize black people.
> 
> There absolutely is institutional racism and it's the social attitude that's pervasive which continues to give it a platform. Black people serve longer terms for committing the same crimes and have had their communities destroyed by the War on Drugs. This incident in Ferguson has made it very clear to me that certain people are all about holding government accountable and being against police until black people start fighting back at the system that has discriminated against and mistreated them for decades. They wanted to take away gun rights when they protested once before, now they want to character assassinate and exonerate the police because they don't want to take the side of a black person. Because apparently, black people are so savage that they're always guilty or deserving of the bullets lodged in their brains by the piggly wigglies. "Nuke them all," they say... just as they chant when America goes to $#@! over another country full of brown people.





> Are white people targeted by stop and frisks? Are white people dehumanized and called 'thugs', 'savages', etc. almost everywhere you look on social media? Were white people enslaved in this country and considered only part human? Are white people a disenfranchised minority? Is there a history of the media painting white people as angry, murderous thugs? Do white people have to deal with people crossing to the other side of the street or clutching their purses simply for being white? Do white people often get told they're "one of the good ones" as if to claim whites are generally inferior? Are white people subject to longer prison terms for committing the same crimes?
> 
> Come on, you're smarter than this. In the collective conscious of many, black people are of lesser value and should be fearednot unlike a couple of decades ago, just less blatant. Obviously white people can be victims of police brutality, no one is saying they can't be. It's a problem that knows no boundaries, but it hits a lot harder to those of color. You must realize the things black people have to put up with or read, right? Or how they're targeted by cops for "looking suspicious," right? You do realize racism is still a huge problem, correct?


Oh, boo-$#@!in-hoo.

My ancestors had their land stolen.
My ancestors were told they need not apply.
My ancestors were persecuted by the Catholic Church for a thousand years.

You really think I give a $#@! about a bunch of dead people? They're gone. The only person responsible for my well-being is me, and you'll be damn sure that I'll get mine.

Quit blaming other people for your problems. Put your big-boy pants on and grow the $#@! up.

----------


## AuH20

Given that the general population is basically firearms illiterate and all the ignoramuses are oohing and aahing about 6 shots, I think Mr. Wilson going forward should personally invest in a trustworthy .45 ACP for his security needs.  9 mm is not going to cut it against blubber, bone, sinew and tissue if you're not intending on delivering death shots. You can riddle a body with a 9mm , especially with individuals of Brown's girth and size.

----------


## JustinTime

> Autopsy report revealed. No shots fired at Brown while he was fleeing. So much for some of the BS stories that were recanted. All frontal entry points. 2 in head. It also may prove that he didn't have his hands up unless Wilson is a very bad shot (reference 3 shots in right arm). 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us...l?src=twr&_r=0
> 
> [IMG]http://static01.********/images/2014/08/18/us/18BROWN-hp-v2/18BROWN-hp-v2-master675.jpg[/IMG]


MSN news on my homepage has a nice article totally failing to mention the frontal entry wounds, they talked about the one on the inside of the arm and top of the head and left it at that. 

The frontal wounds, the top of the head and the one on the inside of the arm all point to one thing, he was charging the cop, head down and arms held chest high.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> There might well be past incidents where Ferguson PD have abused the people there, Im merely saying the Michael Brown incident isn't looking like one of them.


Now, with more of the story coming up, you may very well be right.

It doesn't change the fact that the people reacted to what was initially told to them, which would indicate to me that there was long standing abuse at the hands of the cops.

But now it's such a muddled mess of race, and Sharpton-esque bull$#@!, that the larger issue of heavily militarized police will get lost in the shouting.

And life in the _Soyuz_ goes on.

----------


## AuH20

> MSN news on my homepage has a nice article totally failing to mention the frontal entry wounds, they talked about the one on the inside of the arm and top of the head and left it at that. 
> 
> The frontal wounds, the top of the head and the one on the inside of the arm all point to one thing, he was charging the cop, head down and arms held chest high.


The MSM is a rotten husk of propaganda. And remember that Baden concluded that the last two shots were most likely the head shots.

----------


## JustinTime

> Are white people targeted by stop and frisks? Are white people dehumanized and called 'thugs', 'savages', etc. almost everywhere you look on social media?


Ive heard plenty of whites and black and others called "thug" when demonstrating thuglike behavior.  

Take the infamous Richard Sherman, after several years of picking fights with fellow football players, screaming at TV cameras, he has no right to blame anyone but Richard Sherman, but he can get away with blaming whites. 

The funniest thing Ive seen in message board debates in a long time was the claim that hockey players (read: white) don't get called "thug" and someone posted a link to a bleacher report article about the 50 biggest thugs in hockey. 

As usual, the problem is in your mind. When someone calls a black individual a thug, even if its justified, you see it as an attack on an entire race. When whites are called thug, you don't see it at all.

----------


## AuH20

So now I hear about a 3rd autopsy being planned by the Feds? Is this some kind of circus? It's funny that when I heard about the initial details of the shooting, I thought the cop was hopelessly guilty of being a cop but the more layers you peel, it's starting to turn in the other direction.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

A little historical documentation on why stopping power is preferred in certain situations. The story of the Moro warriors and the Colt .45.

http://deadliestblogpage.wordpress.c...e-philippines/




> “It is thought that the .45 caliber revolver (Constabulary Model 1902) is the one which should be issued to troops throughout the Army…. *Instances have repeatedly been reported during the past year where native have been shot through and through several time with a .38 caliber revolver, and have come on, cutting up the unfortunate individual armed with it… The .45 caliber revolver stops a man in his tracks, usually knocking him down…* It is also recommended that each company …. be furnished with … 12-guage Winchester repeating shotguns.. There is no weapon in our possession equal to the shotgun loaded with buckshot.”

----------


## enhanced_deficit

> SMH
> 
> http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/16/vi...act-to-michael


The woman speaking at 0:40 mark about a public servant being  judge/jury/executioner comes across as informed, can such protestors be  cultivated by asking them if they are aware that SWC droneking has also  acted in similar fashion to channel their rage for broader change of  mentality from the top?
If all black supporters of SWC Obama who still support him were informed  that he has also acted as judge/jury/executioner and his policies have  killed thousands of innocen children/women, will his support among  American black community drop from 90% to 20-30%?


*

Related*

*Hypothetical: Does thugish behavior trickle down to policing institutions from the top*


*Is the ongoing Surge of Police State in America a Surge of Karma?*

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## Ender

> Oh, boo-$#@!in-hoo.
> 
> My ancestors had their land stolen.
> My ancestors were told they need not apply.
> My ancestors were persecuted by the Catholic Church for a thousand years.
> 
> You really think I give a $#@! about a bunch of dead people? They're gone. The only person responsible for my well-being is me, and you'll be damn sure that I'll get mine.
> 
> Quit blaming other people for your problems. Put your big-boy pants on and grow the $#@! up.


So did my ancestors- and I agree with Antischism.

Time for YOU to grow a pair and realize we all need each other. I want the black ganstas on my side when TSFTF.

----------


## Ender

> *The cop will be dispensed justice if he was wrong*. Brown is the main catalyst for the entire affair. He wasted his life over goddamn cigars. He thought he could just push his way through life. But there is always a bigger fish somewhere. Cops, gang members.....Someone else would have smoked this joker.


And what world do you live in?

----------


## AuH20

> And what world do you live in?


A world where in high profile cases like this, the cop is going to be sacrificed as a means to quell domestic upheaval. The sensational racial dynamic that this has devolved into, leads me to believe that he may as well get his orange suit fitted. They don't have enough firemen in the county if he doesn't receive a harsh sentence, regardless of the evidence presented.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Using the threat of violence to take something is a robbery.
> 
> If you wish to go the shoplifting route, he ought to have been charged with assault and menacing as well.


as i have said, earlier..if you stretch something far enough, you can make it fit. Looks like shoplifting to me, and if i were on a jury, thats what i would find. And thats the bottomline.

----------


## JK/SEA

on that 'drawing' of the bullet entries...where are the exit wounds?.....did all the bullets stay in his body?...

----------


## AuH20

> on that 'drawing' of the bullet entries...where are the exit wounds?.....*did all the bullets stay in his body?*...


believed to be 3 only.

----------


## invisible

> A world where in high profile cases like this, the cop is going to be sacrificed as a means to quell domestic upheaval. The sensational racial dynamic that this has devolved into, leads me to believe that he may as well get his orange suit fitted. They don't have enough firemen in the county if he doesn't receive a harsh sentence, regardless of the evidence presented.


It's very important that this brave officer not be sacrificed.  It needs to be assured that this hero is given the opportunity to exercise his Constitutional rights, like the right to remain silent, the right to an attorney, the right to a jury trial, etc.

----------


## AuH20

I'm reading that the weapon caliber issued to Wilson's PD is 7mm? Are you freaking serious? No dash cams? 7 mm weapons? No wonder he couldn't stop Tubby's rhino charge.

----------


## orenbus

Developing: No Curfew Tonight

----------


## hardrightedge

schism...

http://www.redstate.com/diary/quill6...paign=rsupdate

----------


## JK/SEA

> believed to be 3 only.


where did the others go?....shouldn't those be reflected as exits on the drawing?...

----------


## invisible

> I'm reading that the weapon caliber issued to Wilson's PD is 7mm? Are you freaking serious? No dash cams? 7 mm weapons? No wonder he couldn't stop Tubby's rhino charge.


They instead spent all their money on things like bearcats, tear gas, and automatic rifles.  Priorities, you know.  After all, how often do they need to just shoot some guy for shoplifting, jaywalking, and possible assault?  There are much more important things to worry about that seem to happen more often, like serving drug warrants, flash-banging babies, tear-gassing reporters, anti-terrorism stuff like that.

----------


## JK/SEA

we should be getting the test results of any drugs in Wilson.....

wait...nevermind...we can't get that info because.....(you insert reason here)

----------


## phill4paul

Now the squabbling over the autopsy begin.




> Autopsy results enough to charge officer, Brown family attorney says





> Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) -- *An autopsy conducted for the family of Michael Brown found no evidence that he struggled with a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer before his death*, the pathologist in charge of the examination said Monday.





> Dr. Michael Baden said no signs of a struggle were revealed in his autopsy of Brown's body, conducted after an official examination by the St. Louis County Medical Examiner's Office.
> *And forensics consultant Shawn Parcells, who assisted Baden, said the findings are consistent with witness reports that Brown may have been shot as he walked away and that he was shot again with his hands up.
> *





> The family autopsy found that Brown was shot at least six times, including two shots to his head. Three of the bullets may have re-entered his body, causing additional damage, Baden said.
> *One wound to his arm was consistent with a witness statement that Brown was walking away and appeared to jerk, as if shot, Parcells said.* *The wounds to his arm could have also have occurred while he had his hands up, possibly in a defensive posture, Parcells said.*
> *One of the bullets entered the back of his head and came out through his eye*, another -- likely the fatal wound, Baden said -- struck Brown on the top of his head and caused irreparable damage to his brain.
> Family attorney Benjamin Crump said Brown probably would have been either kneeling or bending forward when he was struck with those bullets.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/mis...ing/index.html

  BAH: Notice: This link does not go to the original that I had copied paste from. Don't know what happened there.

  Here is one that seems to be that I got these quotes from.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/mis...ing/index.html

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> as i have said, earlier..if you stretch something far enough, you can make it fit. Looks like shoplifting to me, and if i were on a jury, thats what i would find. And thats the bottomline.


Indeed. Like if you stretch the fact that Michael Brown grabbed some Swishers, shoved the store worker, and then comes back to intimidate him into a case of shoplifting.

Words have meanings.

You can call the robbery tiddlywinks for all I care. It doesn't change the fact of what it was.

To not support the actions of the police department here does not mean that you must ignore the actions of the victim.

----------


## AuH20

The Browns have a real winner for an attorney. Crump stated the head shots were in the back of the head, entering at the front. Are we really in Mike Judge's dystopian nightmare or is Crump playing games with a dumb crowd?

----------


## JK/SEA

> Indeed. Like if you stretch the fact that Michael Brown grabbed some Swishers, shoved the store worker, and then comes back to intimidate him into a case of shoplifting.
> 
> Words have meanings.
> 
> You can call the robbery tiddlywinks for all I care. It doesn't change the fact of what it was.
> 
> To not support the actions of the police department here does not mean that you must ignore the actions of the victim.


i agree.

But we have members justifying the killing over a petty crime by constantly pushing this ahead of the shooting, making the appearence that this was enough of a justification. The petty crime committed is irrelevant in this context. The killing is what the focus should be...but apparently some of you think i'm wrong...

strong arm?...geez... what a crock.

----------


## phill4paul

> The Browns have a real winner for an attorney. Crump stated the head shots were in the back of the head, entering at the front. Are we really in Mike Judge's dystopian nightmare or is Crump playing games with a dumb crowd?


  I think that was backed up by Parcell the examining assistant. Or possibly Baden. The CNN article where this info comes from sucks. Someone needs to teach them how to use quotes and who to attribute them to.

----------


## James Madison

> So did my ancestors- and I agree with Antischism.
> 
> Time for YOU to grow a pair and realize we all need each other. I want the black ganstas on my side when TSFTF.


What makes you think I need anyone but myself?

----------


## AuH20

Just hit twitter.

----------


## phill4paul

> Just hit twitter.


  If he has the investigative skillz of Anonymous or Spike Lee it is probably his grand mothers house.

----------


## tod evans

> So did my ancestors- and I agree with Antischism.
> 
> Time for YOU to grow a pair and realize we all need each other. I want the black ganstas on my side when TSFTF.


*If* the $#@! ever does hit the fan it's pretty unlikely any "black ganstas" are going to make it to the Ozarks...

And.........If they do it's even more unlikely they'll ever get in as deep as I am, so for me to even entertain the idea is a waste of time...

----------


## AuH20

> *If* the $#@! ever does hit the fan *It's pretty unlikely any "black ganstas" are going to make it to the Ozarks...*
> 
> And.........If they do it's even more unlikely they'll ever get in as deep as I am, so for me to even entertain the idea is a waste of time...


Yup. No supply lines or fast food establishments along the way. You're safe.

----------


## tod evans

> Yup. No supply lines or fast food establishments along the way. You're safe.


On the other hand though..

An enemy of my enemy is a potential ally....

----------


## James Madison

> If he has the investigative skillz of Anonymous or Spike Lee it is probably his grand mothers house.


And the community of Ferguson will lose even more public support.

----------


## jkob

> we should be getting the test results of any drugs in Wilson.....
> 
> wait...nevermind...we can't get that info because.....(you insert reason here)


+1000000000

Test this dude for steroids, something like 50% of cops take them.

----------


## specsaregood

> i agree.
> 
> But we have members justifying the killing over a petty crime by constantly pushing this ahead of the shooting, making the appearence that this was enough of a justification. The petty crime committed is irrelevant in this context. The killing is what the focus should be...but apparently some of you think i'm wrong...
> 
> strong arm?...geez... what a crock.


I don't think the petty crime justified being killed but it lends support in my mind that the guy might have fought/attacked the officer.  especially if what I recall reading that officer didn't even know about the robbery tiddlywinks.    Right or Wrong I ceased caring about the dead guy once I found out about that.   If he would assault and steal from one storeworker; then chances are he's done it before or would do it again.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Yup. No supply lines or fast food establishments along the way. You're safe.


i assume you're just referring to just white people right?..or does it matter?...

----------


## JK/SEA

> I don't think the petty crime justified being killed but it lends support in my mind that the guy might have fought/attacked the officer.  especially if what I recall reading that officer didn't even know about the robbery tiddlywinks.    Right or Wrong I ceased caring about the dead guy once I found out about that.   If he would assault and steal from one storeworker; then chances are he's done it before or would do it again.


you should care, but if pissin in the wind is fun for you, flame on.

----------


## AuH20

> i assume you're just referring to just white people right?..or does it matter?...


I was specifically referring to 'black gangstas' not being able to reach the humble abode of one Tod Evans in the lovely Ozarks, due to lack of dining options. It's not an easy trip I hear.

----------


## phill4paul

> On the other hand though..
> 
> An enemy of my enemy is a potential ally....


  Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all people-entangling alliances with none.

----------


## AuH20

Fast forward 30 years......

----------


## CPUd

> 


This is the same M.O. the cops had last night.  They were escorting press people back to the media zone and telling them it's not safe to be out in the streets.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I was specifically referring to 'black gangstas' not being able to reach the humble abode of one Tod Evans in the lovely Ozarks, due to lack of dining options. It's not an easy trip I hear.



how do you know who a 'black gangsta' is?...do they all wear afro's?

----------


## JK/SEA

> 


what all began at McDonalds?...

----------


## AuH20

> how do you know who a 'black gangsta' is?...do they all wear afro's?


Owning large amounts of cough syrup in arid climates. Dead ringer.  Either that or a name label that says 'Black Gangsta.'

----------


## AuH20

> what all began at McDonalds?...


Hamburglar's sinister plot to corrupt the children of the country.

----------


## acptulsa

> I was specifically referring to 'black gangstas' not being able to reach the humble abode of one Tod Evans in the lovely Ozarks, due to lack of dining options. It's not an easy trip I hear.


Ye gods, man.  You've been here attempting to defend the municipality of Ferguson (in its attempts to restore its republican legitimacy by beating the consent for it's just power out of the governed) by posting borderline racist crap for, what, seventy-two hours straight now?

Are you the Iron Man, or are you relaying the night shift off to the Grand Dragon and the Imperial Wizard?

----------


## familydog

> The guilt or innocence of the officer is not actually the main issue here. The main issue is the government's posture and actions - suppression of evidence, suppression of media, paramilitary gear acquisition and deployment, reckless and wanton use of force, false arrests, double standard in treatment of a suspect and victim.
> 
> Even if the police officer is innocent, so many of his peers aren't and have gotten away with it - with no justice or hope thereof forthcoming - that when the PD reacts in this way it sets the expectation that another coverup of government malfeasance is under way. The bias is there because of the endless train of abuses, not as a matter of arbitrary and unreasoning prejudice.
> 
> The real revelation here is just how widespread is public awareness that the Rule of Law in this country is gone.
> 
> 
> WRT Molyneux he doesn't seem to be aware of a third witness and many of the priors on the PD side of things. When the whole Martin/Zimmerman thing went down I concluded that it was two jerks who ran into each other and one ended up dead - where nobody's in the right, there's simply a winner and a loser of the confrontation - and it's looking like the same type of scenario here.


Meh. The knee-jerk reaction on both sides is detrimental to anything that could be remotely considered justice.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> A world where in high profile cases like this, the cop is going to be sacrificed as a means to quell domestic upheaval. The sensational racial dynamic that this has devolved into, leads me to believe that he may as well get his orange suit fitted. They don't have enough firemen in the county if he doesn't receive a harsh sentence, regardless of the evidence presented.


Hello traveller, welcome to Earth.  You must be new here.

----------


## moostraks

> Older white people's concerns are always "fear based fascism" aren't they? Black peoples concerns are legit. 
> 
> Does it occur to you that perhaps you've been brainwashed by whatever type of media you're into? 
> 
> Like Ive said before, lets drop all the "You sound like one of those..." and discuss what we actually believe. 
> 
> 
> 
> If you mean the Ferguson PD's story, I lean that way because of the evidence Ive seen. Now the official media story about the gentle giant gunned down as he walked to gramma's , I doubt that for the same reason.   
> ...


Well funny the media I have listened to has been the you tubes posted by people from the hood. One woman who was particularly well spoken on the frustration for city officials who want money and votes but sure aren't available when tshtf. It was only last night I heard one of the late night radio shows spouting a completely racist angle of what type of folks live in the inner city. It was completely fear based propaganda because they are stoking the older white crowd to demand more government might to protect people from the city savages. It was over the top.

This particular police department has a history of aggression. They killed an unarmed 18 year old when there were other choices that should have been made. It was a penis test imo. Seems the officers in this area have developed a bit of a reputation for this behavior and this is likely a last straw for residents (not the opportunists or govt provocateurs). The behavior of the department towards residents has been more thoughtless aggression rather than listening to the very people that pay their salaries. It seems to be one stupid move after another there. 

Keep digging with city services, it was a stupid association for the purpose of maligning a separate situation in another state to belittle the complaints of the people who are protesting. I told you already I was referring to the totality of police, das, judges et al (go ahead and toss in city officials too because they should also be held culpable for the environment that exists) who have created this type of environment that is a fire keg. It is deceptive to continue to complain that city services are limited to water when it is well known the city services are more than that.

----------


## invisible

> Ye gods, man.  You've been here attempting to defend the municipality of Ferguson (in its attempts to restore its republican legitimacy by beating the consent for it's just power out of the governed) by posting borderline racist crap for, what, seventy-two hours straight now?
> 
> Are you the Iron Man, or are you relaying the night shift off to the Grand Dragon and the Imperial Wizard?


And yet despite this incredibly persistant effort, this thread has managed to remain visible and not get buried in HT.

----------


## orenbus

Not promoting Fox News or necessarily some of the other comments they make here, however some interesting discussion about the Governor's remarks and actions at *3:30* time stamp.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## moostraks

> Actually, I was thinking along the lines of Malcolm X who wrote extensively about the benefits of black separatism. I don't think you need a PhD to see where this is headed. This has all the makings of Yugoslavia redux. Dwindling resources, decades of resentment on both sides, an authoritarian government crumbling apart...


I would suggest the parties involved consider how that panned out for Native Americans before embarking on any treaties with the "white" government. I certainly hope between the two racist choices there will be a third alternative in your utopia so that those of us who aren't paranoid and do not neatly fall into your black and white world may live in peace. Will we get to witness the government steam roll over protesters who lose their homes due to not being the correct race for the space? Wonder what type of deal the government will offer for property under eminent domain in this case? What about biracial couples? Must they divorce and give their children to the state to be raised according to the shade of their skin or can they stay with their parents of similar dominate coloring?

Some of us don't live in paranoid world looking to cut off resources from those of a different race. Seems more beneficial to not promote heavy handed government tactics and push for peace and solidarity of individual rights in the pursuit of liberty than divisiveness and us against them solutions. But what do I know...

----------


## orenbus

‘Somebody Else Needs to See This’: New Video Emerges of Brown Shooting Aftermath
(Video at Link)
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/somebody-...ing-aftermath/




> Cell phone video taken by Ferguson resident Piaget Crenshaw and shown by CNN on Monday provides more footage of the aftermath of the Michael Brown shooting. Crenshaw described the scene to CNN, in which she said that police officer Darren Wilson shot Brown multiple times after Brown had ceased running and turned around.
> 
> “I knew this was not right, I knew police should not even have been chasing this young boy and firing at the same time,” Crenshaw told CNN. “That fact that he got shot in the face, it was something that clicked in me, I thought, somebody else needs to see this. This isn’t right.”
> 
> Crenshaw said there was a struggle at the police car in which it seemed Wilson was trying to draw Brown in. Brown took off running, and Crenshaw said Wilson began firing; when Brown turned around, he was shot multiple times. Crenshaw said that her accounting of the incident concurred with what she knew of the autopsy report, which found that Brown had been shot from the front. “When [Brown] turned toward the cop was when he let off the most shots,” Crenshaw said.
> 
> After the shooting, Crenshaw ran for her phone and filmed the aftermath, in which Wilson paces around and talks to another officer. “He looks baffled and bewildered, trying to explain to the other officer ‘What I had just done,’” Crenshaw said.

----------


## acptulsa

> Some of us don't live in paranoid world looking to cut off resources from those of a different race. Seems more beneficial to not promote heavy handed government tactics and push for peace and solidarity of individual rights in the pursuit of liberty than divisiveness and us against them solutions. But what do I know...


You know better than him.  For example, you know better than him what it takes to match the ideology of Barry Goldwater.  Just for starters...

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

Live fire, real bullets...

run like hell

----------


## orenbus

-live fire, possible rifle fire

----------


## CPUd

He believes it came from the protesters


that VICE feed just doubled to 28K watching.


Another crowd forming on Canfield

A building is being lit on fire.

----------


## orenbus

- local woman being interviewed say "these kids (rioters) think they are at war" with the police.
- local woman offers journalist freeze pops after being gased and avoiding fire
- building being lit on fire
- tim (from vice) saying it seems like every day there is more and more gun fire
-

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> -live fire, possible rifle fire





> He believes it came from the protesters


Excellent.






> A building is being lit on fire.


If it's the house of lice, then that is excellent and hilarious.




> - local woman being interviewed say "these kids (rioters) think they are at war" with the police.
> - building being lit on fire


Lice declared it a "war zone" practically from the outset.  Reap what you sow, scum.

----------


## CPUd

That woman thinks the press are crazy for wanting to go out there.  She was talking about the 2 girls last night (who were running the other VICE stream) pop up out of the bushes and she made them come inside her house.




There is now a tactical sweep - going from house to house.  Presumably looking for people shooting at the police.

----------


## Antischism

Returning the tear gas on the police.

----------


## orenbus

- Cops moving into neighborhoods from the main strip
- Police doing house to house tactical sweeps clearing yards
- Moving people back further in the the Neighborhoods

----------


## Schifference

Must walk to protest.
Media limited to designated area. 
Too many rules.
Walk that way.
Go the other way. 
Disperse.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> Returning the tear gas on the police.


Damn. That guy outta be a quarterback.

----------


## CPUd

Press getting moved back to the command center.

----------


## TheTexan

> There is now a tactical sweep - going from house to house.  Presumably looking for *people shooting at the police*.


You see, this is why we can't have nice things.  We have a 2nd amendment so that we can shoot tin cans in our back yards, and then people just go around abusing their 2nd amendment rights like this.

No wonder gun control advocates keep getting new laws passed.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> That woman thinks the press are crazy for wanting to go out there.  She was talking about the 2 girls last night (who were running the other VICE stream) pop up out of the bushes and she made them come inside her house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is now a tactical sweep - going from house to house.  Presumably looking for people shooting at the police.

----------


## CPUd

I don't think this town is so happy about the police being there.

----------


## Antischism

Another great picture.

----------


## CPUd

The "hands up" thing was a good idea.

----------


## Antischism

They just tear gassed an entire neighborhood. Reports of rubber bullets being fired at people as they're told to go home. This person from the area seems to be providing updates: https://twitter.com/Nettaaaaaaaa

More here: https://twitter.com/BNDJLee

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Does the Ferguson activity answer the RPF perennial question _Is it time yet?_

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Tonight:

----------


## orenbus

Tonight:

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Ok Not promoting TYT or HP, but it's a unique story that hadn't heard yet.

----------


## orenbus

CNN overnight anchor suggest police should be using water cannons on crowds.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## moostraks

> I never suggested making a deal with the government. That would be incredibly counterproductive. You don't go back to the serial abuser and enter into a new contract with that party. I'm suggesting that African Americans take relatively unoccupied tracts of land by force like whites previously did. Set your flag up and start anew. In essence, the yoke of past exploitation would be lifted from the collective psyche forever. 
> 
> The problem that I see is that most black folks don't want to move forward largely because of the toxic political environment that has really poisoned any chance of renewal at the community level. Division is ruthlessly utilized by certain parties in this country to the point that it's nearly impossible to adhere to the U.S. Constitution. What's the recent meme made by the establishment? Oh yea. Small government is racist. Reducing the national debt is racist. Sound money backed by something tangible is racist. And get this. There are countless millions of people that have been hoodwinked into believing this fiction.


Why should they move? Why should they be forced to leave and start over again rather than holding the government accountable for failure to serve equally? Most black folks don't want to move forward? How gracious of you...where is this largely unoccupied land located at that they should take and why aren't you moving to seize it through force and procure your own right to self government so you do not need to fear repercussions for protecting yourself?

----------


## AuH20

Hayes pelted with rocks.

----------


## AuH20

> Why should they move? Why should they be forced to leave and start over again rather than holding the government accountable for failure to serve equally? Most black folks don't want to move forward? How gracious of you...*where is this largely unoccupied land located at that they should take and why aren't you moving to seize it through force and procure your own right to self government so you do not need to fear repercussions for protecting yourself?*


You are reading my mind.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Hayes pelted with rocks.
> ]



any word  on our hero's drug test?...

do you have it yet?

----------


## AuH20

> any word  on our hero's drug test?...
> 
> do you have it yet?


Nope. Why would I? Toxicology report on Brown has not been officially released either. Don't expect anything tangible, especially if it goes to trial. They don't want to taint the jury selection process.

----------


## AuH20

Police have at least 12 eyewitnesses that corroborate cop's report. Traitors to the black race ROFL:

https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/...56693382094848

----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

Credo reporter gets robbed. Scroll to end. So funny.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## JK/SEA

any guesses on when the Guard starts  hut hutin' around town?

----------


## orenbus

> any guesses on when the Guard starts  hut hutin' around town?


Sounds like they are focusing on security around the Target shopping mall (Police Command Center) for now.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

> Right wing/police state cheerleaders going nuts over this tweet: https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/...56693382094848
> 
> If you were looking for the actual evidence it implies exists, or for the cop's story to which it refers, you will be left empty-handed... circulates back to the "Josie" third-hand story.
> 
> It's been over a week and we still haven't an on-the-record explanation by the PD of the actions of its officer which left a person dead in the street of multiple gunshot wounds.


And after they give their sworn testimony, you will likely say that they were lying or being threatened. <yawn> It appears that you're holding onto a rapidly vanishing sweater that's slowly being pulled apart thread by thread. You started from the foundation that the police shot Brown without any provocation, as did I. Now as the facts are being assembled, it doesn't look that way.

----------


## JK/SEA

> And after they give their sworn testimony, you will likely say that they were lying or threatened. <yawn> It appears that you're holding onto a rapidly vanishing sweater that's being pulled apart thread by thread. You started from the foundation that the police shot Brown without any provocation, as did I. Now as the facts are being assembled, it doesn't look that way.


where's that $#@!ing drug test on the cop?

where is it?

----------


## AuH20

> where's that $#@!ing drug test on the cop?
> 
> where is it?


All in due time sir. I already answered this.

----------


## thoughtomator

> It's likely being saved for a trial. If everything is released it cuts down on the potential jury pool... We may see nothing in the interim if this goes to trial. The bare minimum. The defense would save the crucial evidence for his trial. Remember that we didn't get photos of Zimmerman's injuries until the trial.


A police officer is not a private citizen, and what the PD knows is not the equivalent to what a defense officer knows. The PD owes an explanation of how the situation went down, as best they understand it right now.

If they know their officer committed a murder, they had the obligation to arrest him.

If there was no murder, then there needs to be another explanation - an OFFICIAL one.

This is not like the Zimmerman case - Zimmerman was a private party on private property. In Ferguson, the PD itself is a party to the case.

The PD's obligation is to act as a neutral party, and it clearly has no intention of being so.

----------


## thoughtomator

> And after they give their sworn testimony, you will likely say that they were lying or being threatened. <yawn> It appears that you're holding onto a rapidly vanishing sweater that's slowly being pulled apart thread by thread. You started from the foundation that the police shot Brown without any provocation, as did I. Now as the facts are being assembled, it doesn't look that way.


You're delusional. Every single piece of evidence you rely on for your case is hearsay.

----------


## AuH20

Remember that story a few weeks back about people calling the police when Facebook went down? This is relevant to Ferguson and other areas like it. A St. Louis cop weighs in on the hoopla:




> *People need to understand North St. Louis County.* *Those people complain about the Man being in their lives but they call the Man into their lives for every insignificant little thing. Trust me, I know this up close and personal.*


Like I said before, they are babysitters in some areas of the country. If the police are so bloodthirsty, you would think they wouldn't be calling them so much?

----------


## JK/SEA

copsuckers in here should be happy the KKK is fundraising for their hero.

----------


## JK/SEA

> All in due time sir. I already answered this.



$#@!in bull$#@!.

No problem releasing drug tests for the kid right?.....

----------


## AuH20

> $#@!in bull$#@!.
> 
> No problem releasing drug tests for the kid right?.....


Tests weren't officially released for either.

----------


## AuH20

I've never called the police in my life and I aim to keep it that way. Don't need drama or reports. I'll get my own cat out of the tree, thank you. I'll deal with my own neighbors in a civil manner. People are 911 happy since they don't have conflict resolution skills or are hopped up on prescription meds. LOL

----------


## JK/SEA

that last line sounds like you're describing cops.

----------


## AuH20

edit

----------


## AuH20

Good interview regardless of what you think about this incident:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ts-friend.html




> *Shepard told MailOnline he thinks Wilson did the right thing according to his training. But he believes that the police in general should have better training to use non-lethal force before opening fire.*
> 
> *He said: 'It's sad for Mike Brown and his family. Darren could have just Tasered him and Mike would have spent six months in jail or something and maybe got his act together after that.
> 
> 'Darren could have gone on with his life too but now both of their lives are over. It sucks. 
> *
> 'I'm sure Mike's family is having a hard time but at least they have the support of the whole nation behind them, openly. Darren doesn't get that'.





> Shepard told MailOnline: 'People are very suspicious of law enforcement as it is and something like this happens you will always be remembered as the cop who murdered Mike Brown, regardless of what happens at trial or if he's ever charged or fired.
> 
> 'Obviously he's not going to be able to be a cop over there (in Ferguson) any more.
> 
> 'He’s going to have to resign but there's always going to be a negative connotation to his name, and it sucks. He doesn't deserve that.
> 
> *'He's had pure intentions with everything I've ever seen him try and do. When we played hockey he wasn't the guy out there trying to fight people, he didn't care about stuff like that.*
> 
> 'He just wanted to play and have fun with his friends'.

----------


## SeanTX

Metro police just shot and killed a man who refused to drop a knife  in North St. Louis, a few miles from Ferguson -- could stir up more trouble. 




> http://fox2now.com/2014/08/19/office...th-st-louis-2/
> 
> ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI) – Authorities are responding to a report of an officer involved shooting in north St. Louis. 
> snip
> Authorities say a man tried to rob the 5-Star Market  convenience store with a knife.
> snip 
> Police were called but the suspect refused to put down the weapon.   He tried to attack police and was shot and killed.

----------


## TheTexan

Front page of CNN has big image "We love and support you Darren!"

This is why CNN is my primary news source.  Cuts straight through the bull$#@! and directly to the facts, without all the cop-hating propaganda BS

----------


## TheTexan

> 


Good to see.  People finally realizing how much of a hero this guy is

----------


## TheTexan

> I've never called the police in my life and I aim to keep it that way. Don't need drama or reports. I'll get my own cat out of the tree, thank you. I'll deal with my own neighbors in a civil manner. People are 911 happy since they don't have conflict resolution skills or are hopped up on prescription meds. LOL


Shrug.  It's a free service why not use it.  The cops come in very handy sometimes, like when your neighbors are being too loud and there is underage drinking.  A couple of them even got arrested for it, it was hilarious and awesome

----------


## invisible

> Front page of CNN has big image "We love and support you Darren!"


eric holder must be on the job already.

----------


## orenbus

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11...ssouri-protest




> LANDOVER, Md. -- The "Hands up, don't shoot" protest has made its way to the NFL.
> 
> The Washington Redskins secondary emerged from the stadium tunnel during pregame introductions Monday night with hands raised and palms forward.
> 
> It was a show of solidarity with the people in Ferguson, Missouri, who are protesting the shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Eleven players took part as the team was preparing to face the Cleveland Browns.
> 
> Safety Ryan Clark said Brown "could have been any one of us. That could have been any one of our brothers, our cousins. ... When you get an opportunity to make a statement and be more than a football player, it's good."
> 
> Protesters have gathered daily in Ferguson since Brown was fatally was shot by a police officer Aug. 9.

----------


## orenbus

Vice News highlights from over the weekend.

----------


## AuH20

It goes far beyond the cops, though cops don't help the situation.

----------


## Smitty

At this point, it's safe to assume that the public's concern about the militarization of the police has been largely erased,...and that's a shame.

Rand Paul needs some new advisors.

Those he has now suck,...maybe intentionally,...maybe not.

----------


## squarepusher

I feel very bad for Officer Darren than he had to kill someone.  His life will surely be changed after this, very unfortunate for him.

----------


## Ender

> A world where in high profile cases like this, the cop is going to be sacrificed as a means to quell domestic upheaval. The sensational racial dynamic that this has devolved into, leads me to believe that he may as well get his orange suit fitted. They don't have enough firemen in the county if he doesn't receive a harsh sentence, regardless of the evidence presented.


Riiiight- and the last time a cop was 'sacrificed' was when?

----------


## orenbus

I don't know if anyone is interested, but there is a 20+ page thread on a police officers forum here with them arguing with each other over the Ferguson situation and if officer's should be viewed critically or have public oversight placed on them in situations like these. I'm just skimming through it right now to see if there is any other unique points of view from LE across the country on what's been happening.

http://forums.officer.com/t195139/

Here is one post:




> I have a pretty serious problem with your post. In fact, the rant you just went on is why I left Milwaukee and went back to my wife's hometown to be a small town cop instead, like my dad and my uncle and my grandpa. Your viewpoint is so skewed that it's impossible for you to be not only impartial, but to be honest at all about the situation.
> 
> I tire of this concept that a lot of us have that no one can judge us but ourselves. That's simply not true, and it's also not a healthy system. We're the authority on who gets arrested, who gets taken down, who gets shot and who doesn't. In the entire history of the world, has it ever been healthy for the ones with the authority to be the ones that also judge themselves? Let's not even discuss the fact that the people you're talking about are citizens, people who have the constitutional right for us to be judged effectively and honestly for our actions for them or against them. Chicago, for example, before they had a civilian accountability board, had a ludicrously low amount of complaints even investigated, much less confirmed.
> 
> As for your claims, they're all hyperbolic to a fault.
> 
> "Why is the black male never wrong?" Are you serious? Looked at the jail population lately? This concept of yours that they're a protected class is ridiculous. The time I spent in Milwaukee was an eye opener for me. No one on this board is talking about it but we all know people we've worked with who don't think there's any redeeming quality to an inner city kid. Absolutely the riot was unacceptable, but people are frustrated. Your rant and apparent inability to acknowledge that we're the ones with authority and that there is at least a perception of partiality is ridiculous. You refuse to accept any culpability in police interactions with minorities, as if there's never been a crime perpetrated by the police against a minority, ever. That's disingenuous to say the least.
> 
> And I'm so tired of the "we get shot at every day so that justifies a lot of things" argument. Yes, it's a job that can be difficult and dangerous at times, but let's be realistic. There are about 700,000 police officers in the US these days, of which hundreds of thousands are on the street. Last year, 173 died, and of that about 75 died from shootings, stabbings, or other violent interactions with criminals. That's a percentage so low my little desk calculator can't even factor it. It's not a high enough number to justify a rant like this. On the other side, the civilian side? We don't even track those numbers, even though we are supposed to. The low estimate is about 1500 people shot by the police last year, with about 800 dead.
> ...

----------


## Ender

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...r-on-ferguson/




> *Further on Ferguson*
> Becky Akers
> Email  Print
> FacebookTwitterShare
> One test I apply to determine someones status as a hero of liberty is whether he could shake a Founding Fathers hand should one of them miraculously appear among us. Could my nominee walk up to George Washington or Thomas Jefferson or Nathan Hale or Benedict Arnold, look him in the eye, and say, I tried my hardest to protect the freedom you won for us?
> 
> Dan Johnson passes that test. As a student at Bowling Green State University in 2012, he founded PANDA, or People Against the NDAA. This organization  works against the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012. And not only works against it but has scored major victories: PANDAs volunteers have pushed Anti-NDAA legislation in over 20 states and countless local jursdictions,  and have helped pass several pieces of legislation across the country.
> 
> Mr. Johnson is now in Ferguson [not] on behalf of his activist group, but on his own time to lend his expertise in organizing a coordinated political effort to push back against such police action. From there hes written and broadcast accounts of what hes seeing:
> ...

----------


## invisible

Here's where the narrative suddenly changes, so watch closely at this point.  The problem (from the gov't POV) is that the country was waking up to the consequences of police militarization.  For a week or more, we've had real reporting on the situation from the MSM - huge problem.  The original strategy was to allow the looting, in hopes that it would become a red herring from the real issue, and get people to clamor for more "law and order".  That didn't work, and the MSM continued to report.  Next, they tried to intimidate the reporters with tear gas and arrests, and that hasn't worked either.  Now, the strategy is to kick the propaganda machine into overdrive, and try to convince people that this is all about race.  This serves the dual purpose of distracting from the real issue, and getting people fighting amongst themselves.  You will suddenly now see less real reporting on actual events, the discussion of the real issue will suddenly vanish, and those things will be replaced by racial type discussion propaganda.

----------


## CPUd

> Here's where the narrative suddenly changes, so watch closely at this point.  The problem (from the gov't POV) is that the country was waking up to the consequences of police militarization.  For a week or more, we've had real reporting on the situation from the MSM - huge problem.  The original strategy was to allow the looting, in hopes that it would become a red herring from the real issue, and get people to clamor for more "law and order".  That didn't work, and the MSM continued to report.  Next, they tried to intimidate the reporters with tear gas and arrests, and that hasn't worked either.  Now, the strategy is to kick the propaganda machine into overdrive, and try to convince people that this is all about race.  This serves the dual purpose of distracting from the real issue, and getting people fighting amongst themselves.  You will suddenly now see less real reporting on actual events, the discussion of the real issue will suddenly vanish, and those things will be replaced by racial type discussion propaganda.


It is still a big win that it got out there.  The "militarization of police" message has been in development for a while, and this event helped to put it in a nice package that just about everyone picked up.  They tried it after the Boston bombing, but people weren't ready for it back then, and IMO it wasn't the best event to try to put it out.

It may not be front and center anymore, but it will change the way the feds do business with the police.  It's not enough to stop it yet, but it will slow down what the PDs are getting, and make a shorter list of situations where they use the stuff.

----------


## navy-vet

> Yup. No supply lines or fast food establishments along the way. You're safe.


They also have zero marksmanship skills due to their gangsta sideways shooting style and lack of discipline. Also, they aren't able to move quickly without tripping over their pants.

----------


## SeanTX

If this is true it seems WAY to soon to take this to the grand jury -- since a "no bill" might just add to the tension. Though I'm sure it would be a while before a decision was reached. 




> *Michael Brown shooting case to go before grand jury Wednesday* #Ferguson http://postdispat.ch/1pbyn4X 
> 4:30 PM - 19 Aug 2014

----------


## tod evans

*At least 57 arrested overnight in Ferguson*

http://www.bnd.com/2014/08/19/335740...overnight.html

FERGUSON, MO. — The number of people arrested Monday night and Tuesday morning in Ferguson, Missouri, far exceeds what police originally said.

A St. Louis County spokeswoman says 57 people were booked at the county jail. Spokeswoman Candace Jarrett says that does not include people taken to municipal jails elsewhere in the region. She did not have information on how many additional arrests were made.

Police originally said 31 arrests were made after another night of violence that followed the Aug. 9 shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a police officer.

Just four of the 57 arrested had Ferguson addresses. Fifty-four were cited for failure to disperse, two for unlawful use of a weapon, and one for interfering with an officer.

Sixteen of those arrested are from out of state.

----------


## invisible

> *At least 57 arrested overnight in Ferguson*
> 
> http://www.bnd.com/2014/08/19/335740...overnight.html
> 
> FERGUSON, MO.  *The number of people arrested Monday night and Tuesday morning in Ferguson, Missouri, far exceeds what police originally said*.
> 
> A St. Louis County spokeswoman says 57 people were booked at the county jail. Spokeswoman Candace Jarrett says that does not include people taken to municipal jails elsewhere in the region. She did not have information on how many additional arrests were made.
> 
> Police originally said 31 arrests were made after another night of violence that followed the Aug. 9 shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a police officer.
> ...


Nah, these cops are honest, they'd never lie about anything.

----------


## CPUd

They were still arresting people after 2:30 when he made the statement.

----------


## orenbus

The number of arrests from last night is up to 78 now.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/...-ferguson.html




> Missouri police reported arresting half as many people as they actually did in Ferguson on Monday night. NBC News obtained a list showing 78 people were arrested overnight, which is more than double the 31 authorities had reported. All but three of the people arreested were collared for refusing to disperse. Two were arrested for unlawful use of a weapon, and another for interfering with an officer. Eighteen people from outside Missouri were arrested, some from as far away as Brooklyn and San Diego. “I am not going to let the criminals that have come here from across this country, or live in this neighborhood, define this community,” Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ronald Johnson said. “Our officers came under heavy fire,” he said, but “not a single bullet was fired by officers.” There are several reports that police used tear gas to get crowds to disperse, and accounts of civilian gunfire and a man being pulled from his car at gunpoint. The night was generally peaceful until around 10 p.m., when some protesters threw bottles at police, and officers responded with high-pitched sound cannons.

----------


## orenbus

40 minutes till sunset

Here are some streams (will be updating this list as they come online)


Mix of Streams (with Scanner in background)
http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution


KARG Argus Radio
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483

Civilian Media
http://www.livestream.com/civilianmediatv

CNN
http://www.livenewschat.eu/breaking/

MSNBC
http://www.livenewschat.eu/politics/


### Some streams that should be streaming soon ###


Credo Action
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8U...6PuJr3kfHMMn7A

Alex Jones
http://www.ustream.tv/realalexjones

KMOV local channel 4 (late night stream)
http://www.kmov.com/

Local Fox 2 stream
http://fox2now.com/on-air/live-streaming/

Timp Pool reporting for Vice News
http://new.livestream.com/timcast

----------


## SeanTX

I can see that the St. Louis County PD is still out creating goodwill between them and the "animals"  : 

https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/

Retweeted by Antonio French
 Jack @jack  ·  46m

Heartbreaking: witnessed the St. Louis County police run up to a woman, throw her to the ground, & arrest her. For standing still. #Ferguson

----------


## CPUd

scanner: Someone pointing laser pointers at an aircraft

----------


## SeanTX

I don't know about the veracity of this, claiming that Mike Brown's partner in crime has recanted what he said happened : 

https://www.facebook.com/1007TheViper




> ***BREAKING NEWS***
> Remember, you saw it and heard it here first. We have heard (from a VERY connected national media source) that Ferguson officer Darren Wilson will be cleared in the shooting of Michael Brown.
> 
> * The key: Dorian Johnson has now admitted that Michael Brown attacked Officer Wilson and attempted to take his gun.* OFFICER WILSON WILL NOT BE CHARGED! This is scary. When this news is made official, we all have reason to be concerned about the reaction.

----------


## CPUd

> I don't know about the veracity of this, claiming that Mike Brown's partner in crime has recanted what he said happened : 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/1007TheViper


the feds got up his ass.

----------


## mad cow

> the feds got up his ass.


Or someone told him the definition and possible punishment for perjury.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

Shawn Parcells Mistated His Credentials

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/shawn-p...ed-by-doctors/




> Parcells owns National Forensic Autopsy and Recovery Services. He says lawyers for the family of Michael Brown contacted him because of his expertise in gunshot wounds.
> 
> “I am a forensic pathologist assistant and medical investigator,” Parcells told FOX 4’s Shannon O’Brien.
> 
> However, that’s something of a dubious title according to forensic pathologist Dr. Erik Mitchell.
> 
> “That is a degree that does not exist in my knowledge, except in the mind of Shawn Parcells,” Dr. Mitchell said.
> 
> *Dr. Mitchell takes issue with Parcells’ title.
> ...

----------


## AuH20

Dorian Johnson wanted for another crime in Jefferson City.

http://www.abc17news.com/news/key-wi...-city/27624066




> *The warrant is for stealing and dates back to June 2011.
> 
> ABC 17 News looked into Johnson's past and found out he has also been charged with filing a false police report in the same year.
> 
> After cross referencing several records, ABC 17 News found the warrant, which is for Dorian Jordan Johnson, is actually the same person as Dorian Jarvis Johnson.*

----------


## phill4paul

> Ferguson Store Owner Says He Doesn’t Believe That’s Mike Brown On Surveillance Video
> 
> The surveillance tapes supposedly shows Michael Brown “robbing” a Ferguson convenience store market. But in spite of the fact that the “robbery” was carried out without the brandishing of a weapon, and in spite of the fact that this was really more a case of petty theft shoplifting, this Friday, for the first time, the owners of the store have said that they never said they believed Michael Brown was the individual who stole the item from their store.
> 
> In fact, while the owners are speaking out through an attorney about the surveillance video, the mainstream, corporate media are largely ignoring everything they said, pretending that this video definitively identifies Michael Brown as the strong arm shoplifter.





> As well, in addition to clarifying that they never said they believed, nor identified the suspect with Michael Brown, they claimed that the St. Louis County issued the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday, based on the police claiming that Brown fit the description of the person in the video… the person who the owners and employees of the store were not even going to call the police on. Again, the owner clarifies that neither the management, nor any employee ever identified Brown as the suspect in that video.
> 
> They simply never said they believed that, this was a claim made by the police alone. So the real question is why the media has been taking the word of the police on this matter, even over the word of the eye witnesses and the store owner?


http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/0...illance-video/

----------


## JK/SEA

> Dorian Johnson wanted for another crime in Jefferson City.
> 
> http://www.abc17news.com/news/key-wi...-city/27624066


are we getting back ground checks on everyone and anyone remotely or directly involved in this?...all cops, all Prosecutors, politicians and their connections...you know...transparency...its all good right?...

next.

----------


## AuH20

Like I said in previous posts............................But this will probably bankrupt the county. ROFL

----------


## AuH20

Sounds like Ferguson will be a ghost town at this point. Who would keep a business open under these conditions?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ms-In-Ferguson




> “Our patients are canceling left and right because they don’t want to come on our street,” the owner of a medical facility told Breitbart News. “It’s affecting our bottom line for the past week. We’re going on the 8th day now.”
> 
> The same business owner was concerned about releasing her businesses name for fear of retribution by protesters who may burn down the facility like she says they had already done to a friend’s place of business. Additionally, the shop owners are concerned the damages done may not be covered by their insurance.





> *“I have the best insurance but I heard rumors they may try to play the social unrest card and say that I’m not covered and say that this is a civil unrest and therefore I’m not covered,” Dyan said.
> 
> The medical facility owner agreed saying, “Several of these businesses and we checked ours –there’s a cause in it that says there’s no coverage for anything pertaining to a riot act. So any of the damage is coming out of the [business owner].”
> 
> She added, “So It’s not enough that we’ve suffered for nine days and lost about 70 percent of the business and can’t pay our rent and can’t get anybody here to help us. So what else can we observe here as small business owners?”*

----------


## JK/SEA

> Sounds like Ferguson will be a ghost town at this point. Who would keep a business open under these conditions?
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ms-In-Ferguson


all this because of one roided up cop.

----------


## AuH20

Another eyewitness confirms a struggle:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us...isit.html?_r=0




> However, law enforcement officials say witnesses and forensic analysis have shown that Officer Wilson did sustain an injury during the struggle in the car…
> 
> * “It was something strange,” said [eyewitness Michael] Brady, 32, a janitor. “Something was not right. It was some kind of altercation. I can’t say whether he was punching the officer or whatever. But something was going on in that window, and it didn’t look right.”…*
> 
>     According to his account to the Ferguson police, Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said. Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force. Some witnesses have backed up that account. Others, however — including [Brown's friend Dorian] Johnson — have said that Mr. Brown did not move toward the officer before the final shots were fired…
> 
> *The F.B.I., Mr. Bosley said, pressed Mr. Johnson to say how high Mr. Brown’s hands were. Mr. Johnson said that his hands were not that high, and that one was lower than the other, because he appeared to be “favoring it,” the lawyer said.*

----------


## moostraks

> A world where in high profile cases like this, the cop is going to be sacrificed as a means to quell domestic upheaval. The sensational racial dynamic that this has devolved into, leads me to believe that he may as well get his orange suit fitted. They don't have enough firemen in the county if he doesn't receive a harsh sentence, regardless of the evidence presented.





> Some have expressed concern that Bob McCulloch, a 23-year veteran of the position of St. Louis County prosecutor, may be too biased to fairly present the evidence of Michael Browns killing to a grand jury. As noted by the New Republic, police officers are always part of the prosecution team by virtue of their duty to gather the evidence and testify as witnesses for the state...
> 
> In addition, Bob McCullochs father was killed while in the line of duty as a police officer,  and McCulloch opposed Nixons decision to replace the St. Louis police department patrolling Ferguson with the Missouri Highway Patrol.
> 
> Its shameful what he did today, he had no legal authority to do that, McCulloch told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch following Nixons decision. To denigrate the men and women of the county police department is shameful.


http://www.newsweek.com/gov-jay-nixo...wn-case-265756

Separate case same area:



> Police in Ferguson, Missouri, once charged a man with destruction of property for bleeding on their uniforms while four of them allegedly beat him...
> 
> The contradictions between the complaint and the depositions apparently are what prompted the prosecutor to drop the property damage allegation. The prosecutor also dropped a felony charge of assault on an officer that had been lodged more than a year after the incident and shortly after Davis filed his civil suit.
> 
> Davis suggested in his testimony that if the police really thought he had assaulted an officer he would have been charged back when he was jailed.
> 
> They would have filed those charges right then and there, because thats a major felony, he noted.
> 
> Indisputable evidence of what transpired in the cell might have been provided by a surveillance camera, but it turned out that the VHS video was recorded at 32 times normal speed...
> ...


http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...loody-lie.html

What's the saying again AF? Not intentionally malevolent is it???

----------


## familydog

> all this because of one roided up cop.


Yes, and the bad judgement a 6'4 near 300 lb. legal adult who had a history (at least recent) of violations of property rights and submerged himself into violent culture. 

It really is a tragedy. The "protestors" who are trashing private businesses are harming their own community. Heh, at least supporters of the cops aren't going around doing the same.

----------


## Ender

> Yes, and the bad judgement a 6'4 near 300 lb. legal adult who had a history (at least recent) of violations of property rights and submerged himself into violent culture. 
> 
> It really is a tragedy. The "protestors" who are trashing private businesses are harming their own community. Heh, at least supporters of the cops aren't going around doing the same.


Becky Ackers quotes Dan Johnson who is on the ground at Ferguson:

Mr. Johnson is now in Ferguson [not] on behalf of his activist group, but on his own time to lend his expertise in organizing a coordinated political effort to push back against such police action. From there hes written and broadcast accounts of what hes seeing:




> *I have been here since Saturday morning. I have seen everything from prayer circles and press conferences with the protesters, to National Guardsmen positioned as snipers on store rooftops. I have been directed out of parking lots by military police, and ordered to keep moving by highway patrolmen.  I have had my eyes completely opened while down here.   This is what the NDAA looks like. When the only difference between the police and military is one is under the DoD (Department of Defense), and one is not, there is no practical difference. The Ferguson police coalition treated peaceful protesters like criminals, instead of dealing separately with a small criminal element.  They acted like, and continue to act like, an occupying force in the community. Of course, now even the National Guard is here.   I challenge any organization that considers liberty important to send people down here and truly stand up against the military state.
> *


She also says:




> Not to create work for Mr. Johnson, but perhaps in his travels around Ferguson, he can substantiate the following information from Freedom Outpost:
> 
> *one of my most trusted sources, a member of DHS,  stated that DHS is running the Ferguson Police Department and that their actions are designed to antagonize and to provoke the locals to violence. He further stated that he believed that the ultimate goal is to inflame the local citizens to such a point martial law will be declared.*


Also- as mentioned on the forum, the owners of the store where Brown is accused of robbery have stated that they never called the police and that they do not believe the guy in the video is Brown.

----------


## familydog

> Also- as mentioned on the forum, the owners of the store where Brown is accused of robbery have stated that they never called the police and that they do not believe the guy in the video is Brown.


I have no doubt the police are antagonizing the situation. My comment was directly related to the actions against private business. The police are not smashing and looting businesses.

The problem we have here is that this story is no longer focused on this specific incident. So many people on both sides are bringing in their emotional baggage that I believe it's now impossible to ever learn the truth and the cop will never have a fair trial. Or, I suppose because he is a cop he inherently deserves guilty until proven innocent.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> ...the cop will never have a fair trial. Or, I suppose because he is a cop he inherently deserves guilty until proven innocent.


There's pretty much no way 12 people will convict.  This case is already over.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Who benefits from this media circus?




> The New York Times has big news on the biggest story in the country today, but as Noah Rothman at Hot Air discovered, the Times buried that news 26 paragraphs deep.
> ...
> ...the news that Wilson was injured during his struggle with 18-year-old Michael Brown is highly relevant to the ongoing investigation, not to mention the racial furor being whipped up by those uninterested in facts -- chief among them *the media and racial grifters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson*.
> 
> If Wilson was indeed injured, it doesn't automatically make the fatal shooting of Brown appropriate, but it does help to fill a yawning fact-vacuum with a piece of relevant information.
> 
> The fact that the Times hid its own scoop, and no other mainstream media outlets are reporting on it, is also informative. The news of the officer being injured would further upset and muddy the *hysterical black vs. white narrative the media so desperately desires, along with the obvious political upside for the left that comes with it*.
> 
> While we don't know how this story will ultimately play out, the media's behavior in Ferguson is looking an awful lot like the reprehensible and corrupt behavior we saw during the Trayvon Martin affair. 
> ...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> There's pretty much no way 12 people will convict.  This case is already over.


It all depends upon jury selection and intimidation.

----------


## orenbus

> The "protestors" who are trashing private businesses are harming their own community. Heh, at least supporters of the cops aren't going around doing the same.


This is assuming the "protesters" that are looting are from the same community. Many of the members of the Ferguson community that have witnessed the actions of a few, and community members that are protecting those same businesses by putting themselves in front of the looters to stop them (while the police were doing nothing), are saying the looters are not from the community. Of course there is no way to prove that every looter is from outside the community, however it would make sense to not paint a broad brush and say that the looters are "trashing their own community."

----------


## AuH20

> Who benefits from this media circus?


Only the government can soothe racial tensions with their PAAL-LISEES.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> The New York Times has big news on the biggest story in the country today, but as Noah Rothman at Hot Air discovered, the Times buried that news 26 paragraphs deep.


"26 paragraphs deep."  What a great "discovery."  LOL.  It used to be that you said something was buried 26 pages deep in a newspaper.  

And I just counted the sentences.  The 26 paragraphs are an average of 1.5 sentences each.  Guess that's a little too much for today's ADD reader.

Oh yeah, Mr. "Hot Air" reporter--today is August 20, but that news about Wilson's injury came out a long time ago.  Looks like "Hot Air" and "Breitbart" are benefitting fine from their own circus articles they wrote.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> It all depends upon jury selection and intimidation.


Maybe like some possible intimidation of Johnson when the FBI immediately interviewed him after the incident.

----------


## familydog

> This is assuming the "protesters" that are looting are from the same community. Many of the members of the Ferguson community that have witnessed the actions of a few, and community members that are protecting those same businesses by putting themselves in front of the looters to stop them (while the police were doing nothing), are saying the looters are not from the community. Of course there is no way to prove that every looter is from outside the community, however it would make sense to not paint a broad brush and say that the looters are "trashing their own community."


I'm not going to argue with the idea that the looters could be from out of town. It may or may not be true. That's besides the point. While we did see some peaceful protestors trying to protect businesses, but by in large the local black community, like the cops, sat idly by while watching people's livelihoods being destroyed.

----------


## AuH20

> I'm not going to argue with the idea that the looters could be from out of town. It may or may not be true. That's besides the point. While we did see some peaceful protestors trying to protect businesses, but by in large the local black community, like the cops, sat idly by while watching people's livelihoods being destroyed.


There were a good share from East St. Louis.

----------


## familydog

> There's pretty much no way 12 people will convict.  This case is already over.


Again, that could be the result of something other than just the facts of the case. Whether the cop gets convicted or not, it really can't be said he will get a fair trial.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> ...not to mention the racial furor being whipped up by those uninterested in facts -- chief among them the media and racial grifters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.


Wonder why these fine publications don't talk about other grifters.  Like a national radio talk show host who aired an anonymous woman giving a descriptive third hand hearsay account of what happened between Brown and Wilson.

I guess popular radio talk show personalities must be so interested in all the facts.

----------


## orenbus

//

----------


## orenbus

> I'm not going to argue with the idea that the looters could be from out of town. It may or may not be true. That's besides the point. While we did see some peaceful protestors trying to protect businesses, but by in large the local black community, like the cops, sat idly by while watching people's livelihoods being destroyed.

----------


## familydog

> 


I get it. I'm not suggesting every single individual was looting and burning private property. I suggested that the black community needs to hold itself to the same standard it holds other communities by going all out to stop the destruction of their economy. 

Let it be said this. As much as the police are criticized on this forum for being militarized and crazed, they did little to actually stop the destruction of private property.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> As much as the police are criticized on this forum for being militarized and crazed, they did little to actually stop the destruction of private property.


That's typical police in America.  They deal with law-abiding citizens, harmless dogs, and grandma, instead of going after criminals.  

Playing cowboys and Indians is not law enforcement.

----------


## moostraks

> I get it. I'm not suggesting every single individual was looting and burning private property. I suggested that the black community needs to hold itself to the same standard it holds other communities by going all out to stop the destruction of their economy. 
> 
> Let it be said this. As much as the police are criticized on this forum for being militarized and crazed, they did little to actually stop the destruction of private property.


They put themselves out there in a community known to be biased in its prosecution and not many people put themselves on the line like that for others when the stakes are what they are...The police did little to stop the destruction because they were too busy with journalists and 90 year old old ladies and they don't care about the tax payers/average citizen. Something is clearly at play here with the series of choices in government action, or these are the most convenient set of coincidentally poor choices and an enormous amount of fake videos circulating...

----------


## familydog

> That's typical police in America.  They deal with law-abiding citizens, harmless dogs, and grandma, instead of going after criminals.  
> 
> Playing cowboys and Indians is not law enforcement.


I'm not going to dispute this claim. By in large, I tend to agree. However, as stated, the facts of this specific incident no longer matter as much as pent up hostility for a class of citizens who have a history of abuse.

----------


## familydog

> They put themselves out there in a community known to be biased in its prosecution and not many people put themselves on the line like that for others when the stakes are what they are...The police did little to stop the destruction because they were too busy with journalists and 90 year old old ladies and they don't care about the tax payers/average citizen. Something is clearly at play here with the series of choices in government action, or these are the most convenient set of coincidentally poor choices and an enormous amount of fake videos circulating...


Well, bringing it back to the actual case at hand, did the officer in question ever have a complaint filed against him? He worked primarily in a black community for years as I understand it. So, the overall "justice" system may in fact be biased against the black community, but that is irrelevant to whether this cop had legitimate cause for self defense. His bias is a valid question.

----------


## orenbus

> I get it. I'm not suggesting every single individual was looting and burning private property. I suggested that the black community needs to hold itself to the same standard it holds other communities by going all out to stop the destruction of their economy. 
> 
> Let it be said this. As much as the police are criticized on this forum for being militarized and crazed, they did little to actually stop the destruction of private property.


Ok. I'm not making excuses for anyone, mainly I just want to make sure that when we discuss these things we try to approach it from a perspective of the search for truth, and not just easily jump to conclusions and early judgment that is so easy for us to fall into, as we struggle with the human condition. One more thing I want to point out, here is a recording of a live stream from Friday night when the major looting happened, it begins at time stamp *6:00* into the video.





I think one thing we need to understand is that a lot of what happens isn't so clear cut, when chaos (and the definition of chaos is aptly described in this situation) ensues its really hard even for those that are there to determine what is happening, and even harder for us that are disconnected (from the events as they happen) and can only see what has happened through a small lens from a camera as too all the actions of every single person on the ground during a chaotic event such as what happened Friday. It's very easy for us to say sitting comfortably behind our computers that I would have done this or that, or this person in the community should have put themselves in harms way for another persons property, regardless of whether they were armed or not, even if they don't know if the looters are armed or not (which we now know that some of the looters were armed).

One thing I will say that seems to be a common theme every day this past week is that the peaceful protesters are in front, doing their thing while it appears to me that those in the back of the crowds (or mixed in) are doing things that both the police and the community do not necessarily see (or would want to have happen) until it's already underway and then they have to react. That doesn't absolve the police though because I have seen signs of violence from them that have been unwarranted over the past week as well. In any case some of the things I have seen and heard are gunshots being let off through crowds that are meant to hit officers are most likely hitting the protesters instead that aren't wearing protection, vice versa I've seen peaceful protesters and media being shot with rubber bullets meant for someone else. Destruction and looting, theft and other violence are happening in other areas behind the crowds essentially those peaceful protesters and media (as we saw last night) are being used as smoke screens or cover by a number of people and this happens vice versa. Also once the police let off the tear gas, smoke and rubber bullets that gives those that are looking to destroy and loot a layer of disguise in the night to do what they want to do as visibility goes down to nothing and can be triggered by a simple plastic bottle thrown in the vicinity of the police.

Anyway I should probably stop typing right here or I'll just keep going and going, a person could probably write a few books on the stories behind the people and the events of the past week in Ferguson. Essentially I just want to point out that when it comes to chaotic scenes things are usually never as clear cut as we want them to be.

----------


## familydog

> Ok. I'm not making excuses for anyone, mainly I just want to make sure that when we discuss these things we try to approach it from a perspective of the search for truth, and not just easily jump to conclusions and early judgement that is so easy for us to fall into, as we struggle with the human condition. One more thing I want to point out here is a recording of a live stream from Friday night when the major looting happened, it begins at timestamp *6:00* into the video. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think one thing we need to understand is that a lot of what happens isn't so clear cut, when chaos (and the definition of chaos is aptly named in this situation) ensues its really hard even for those that are there to determine what is happening, and even harder for us that are disconnected (from the events as they happen) and can only see what has happened through a small lens from a camera as too all the actions of every single person on the ground during a chaotic event such as what happened Friday. It's very easy for us to say sitting comfortably behind our computers that I would have done this or that, or this person in the community should have put themselves in harms way for another persons property regardless of whether they were armed or not even if they don't know if the looters are armed or not (which we now know that some of the looters where armed). 
> 
> One thing I will say that seems to be a common theme every day this past week is that the peaceful protesters are in front, doing their thing while it appears to me that those in the back of the crowds are doing things that both the police and the community do not necessarily see (or would want to have happen) until it's already underway and then they have to react. That doesn't absolve the police though because I have seen signs of violence from them that have been unwarranted over the past week as well. In any case some of the things I have seen and heard are gunshots being let off through crowds that are meant to hit officers are most likely hitting the protesters instead that aren't wearing protection, vice versa I've seen peaceful protesters and media being shot with rubber bullets meant for someone else. Destruction and looting, theft and other violence are happening in other areas behind the crowds essential those peaceful protesters and media (as we saw last night) are being used as smoke screens or cover by a number of people and this happens vice versa. Also once the police let off the tear gas, smoke and rubber bullets that gives those that are looking to destroy and loot a layer of disguise in the night to do what they want to do as visibility goes down to nothing and can be triggered by a simple plastic bottle thrown in the vicinity of the police. 
> ...


Thank you. I was vaguely aware of these types of scenarios, but it's great to have actual video. I watched a couple and I will watch the rest when I have the opportunity. I appreciate your point of view and I can't find much to disagree with. It's important to point this out.

----------


## moostraks

> Well, bringing it back to the actual case at hand, did the officer in question ever have a complaint filed against him? He worked primarily in a black community for years as I understand it. So, the overall "justice" system may in fact be biased against the black community, but that is irrelevant to whether this cop had legitimate cause for self defense. His bias is a valid question.


The initial they was referring to the protesters who did stand up against the looters per your statement that there should have been more done by the protesters. The department has a reputation of racial bias. It appears they changed policy in 2010 regarding documentation of police abuse but how trustworthy they are in a system that is biased and corrupt *\shrugs/* I wouldn't trust them with their track record but that's me as I have seen plenty enough corruption by those with even the least bit of power.

----------


## familydog

> The initial they was referring to the protesters who did stand up against the looters per your statement that there should have been more done by the protesters. The department has a reputation of racial bias. It appears they changed policy in 2010 regarding documentation of police abuse but how trustworthy they are in a system that is biased and corrupt *\shrugs/* I wouldn't trust them with their track record but that's me as I have seen plenty enough corruption by those with even the least bit of power.


I really can't agree or disagree with this statement as I am unfamiliar with the history of the Ferguson Police Department. I will trust that you have researched this and I will verify it later. With that said, I do believe that the department's poor history of racial relations has doomed this particular officer who has no complaints from him by blacks (that I am aware of). I just don't agree that with the invalid logic of: The Ferguson Police Department has a racist history. Therefore this particular officer is racist and shot an "unarmed teen" in cold blood.

----------


## orenbus

> Well, bringing it back to the actual case at hand, did the officer in question ever have a complaint filed against him? He worked primarily in a black community for years as I understand it. So, the overall "justice" system may in fact be biased against the black community, but that is irrelevant to whether this cop had legitimate cause for self defense. His bias is a valid question.


Not sure if there was an actual official complaint filed against the officer in this instance, or if there were any complaints ever filed against him, probably something that someone should do a freedom of information request on (if possible) and either clear or confirm but this interview did happen a few days ago. The allegations haven't been confirmed or denied that I know of by anyone so not sure how credible this is as the interview happened post events leading up to this past week.




The chief of police did say he has had no disciplinary action ever taken against him, since this would be departmental action it probably doesn't include complaints filed against the officer from citizens, so as far as I know your question would still be an open discussion.

----------


## familydog

> Not sure if there was an actual official complaint filed against the officer in this instance, or if there were any complaints ever filed against him, probably something that someone should do a freedom of information request on (if possible) and either clear or confirm but this interview did happen a few days ago. The allegations haven't been confirmed or denied that I know of by anyone so not sure how credible this is as the interview happened post events leading up to this past week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chief of police did say he has had no disciplinary action ever taken against him, since this would be departmental action it probably doesn't include complaints filed against the officer from citizens, so as far as I know your question would still be an open discussion.


Fair enough. We know who the officer is in question. It strikes me odd no one has come forth and provided any claims of prior abuse.

----------


## Antischism

Shooting victim during the protests recovering well, says the '4-5 black men' cops were 'looking for' were the individuals who helped her out. Furthermore:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...viewed_her.php




> The bullet lodged against her skull, near the middle of her forehead. Aaten-White says it took doctors about a day to decide that it was safe to remove it. She says when she woke up from the surgery on Wednesday evening, August 13, the doctors and nurses told her police officers came and confiscated the bullet as evidence. As she recovered, she says, she waited for those officers to return and do a full interview about the incident.
> 
> "I would ask every day while I was there," she says, "'Did anyone from the police department come? Have they called for me? Are they going to be here today?' And nobody could give me an answer."





> Aaten-White is home now, recuperating, though she did appear at a church rally with Michael Brown's family. She also retained Marwan Porter, a Florida-based attorney who specializes in cases involving police misconduct and personal injury. He's in town now, and Daily RFT spoke with him yesterday as he drove to the Ferguson Police Department to try to obtain Aaten-White's case files.
> 
> "We want to find out who and what agency took possession of the bullet," he said. "We want to identify who was responsible for firing the weapon that ended up with a bullet being lodged in the front of Mya's head."
> 
> When we spoke with him several hours later, the story just got weirder.
> 
> "I've talked to both the St. Louis County Police Department and Ferguson...they have no record...no file number, no report," he said. "They don't have anything."

----------


## AuH20

> I really can't agree or disagree with this statement as I am unfamiliar with the history of the Ferguson Police Department. I will trust that you have researched this and I will verify it later. With that said, I do believe that the department's poor history of racial relations has doomed this particular officer who has no complaints from him by blacks (that I am aware of). I just don't agree that with the invalid logic of: The Ferguson Police Department has a racist history. Therefore this particular officer is racist and shot an "unarmed teen" in cold blood.


And there are persistent rumors bubbling that this isn't the first time the Gentle Giant has attacked someone. It is believed that he was involved in an altercation with one of his teachers. So if this goes to trial, it's likely going to get worse for the Brown family. Brown sounds like a bully.

----------


## invisible

> "I've talked to both the St. Louis County Police Department and Ferguson...they have no record...no file number, no report," he said. "They don't have anything."


Of course not!  Why do you think they quickly confiscated the evidence?

----------


## moostraks

> I really can't agree or disagree with this statement as I am unfamiliar with the history of the Ferguson Police Department. I will trust that you have researched this and I will verify it later. With that said, I do believe that the department's poor history of racial relations has doomed this particular officer who has no complaints from him by blacks (that I am aware of). I just don't agree that with the invalid logic of: The Ferguson Police Department has a racist history. Therefore this particular officer is racist and shot an "unarmed teen" in cold blood.


He is hardly doomed if the prosecutor ends up being a twenty something veteran of this judicial system that lost a father to being killed while in the line of duty as a police officer and is condemning the governor for denigrating the local police for by replacing them with Highway Patrol. Just a wee bit of bias there...

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> And there *persistent rumors* bubbling that this isn't the first time the Gentle Giant has attacked someone. *It is believed* that he was involved in an altercation with one of his teachers. So if this goes to trial, it's likely going to get worse for the Brown family. *Brown sounds like a bully*.



You mean like the anonymous woman calling the radio show saying Brown bum rushed Wilson, but her story turns out to be third hand hearsay?  Or, would it be where people said Brown charged Wilson because they said it was on the aftermath video, but there is actually nothing like that on the video?  Or, would that be in the same report you cited where it said that Brown handed off the cigars to Johnson, but then you could not produce the report?

----------


## AuH20

> You mean like the anonymous woman calling the radio show saying Brown bum rushed Wilson, but her story turns out to be third hand hearsay?  Or, would it be where people said Brown charged Wilson because they said it was on the aftermath video, but there is actually nothing like that on the video?  Or, would that be in the same report you cited where it said that Brown handed off the cigars to Johnson, but then you could not produce the report?


Hearsay? We already have a witness (a 32 year old janitor) corroborating the woman's tale that there was an altercation in the vicinity of the police car interior.  Secondly, the aftermath video has two individuals stating that Brown ran back at the officer. As far as the cigars being handed off that was in the woman's briefing.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Hearsay? We already have a witness (a 32 year old janitor) corroborating the woman's tale that there was an altercation in the vicinity of the police car interior.


NOBODY is disputing the altercation at the car.  The anonymous woman with third hand hearsay information who called the radio show said Brown "bum-rushes" Wilson.  You used the term "bull rush."  There is absolutely no presented evidence of that at this point.




> Secondly, the aftermath video has two individuals stating that Brown ran back at the officer.


No, that is NOT in the video at all.  You keep saying this, but it's not there.  




> As far as the cigars being handed off that was in the woman's briefing


What woman?  What briefing?

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> We already have a witness (a 32 year old janitor)...


There is a report that the janitor said that Brown had his hands up.  I am going to suspend judgment on that at this point because it was only reported in a newspaper.  I don't have his verbatim account.

IF the janitor's account reads like the newspaper recorded, then he will be at least the third person who said Brown had his hands up.  This is a far cry from you saying that Brown "bull rushed" Wilson.  It's a far cry from the account of the anonymous woman on the radio call in show who's story is third hand hearsay.

----------


## twomp

> Hearsay? We already have a witness (a 32 year old janitor) corroborating the woman's tale that there was an altercation in the vicinity of the police car interior.  Secondly, the aftermath video has two individuals stating that Brown ran back at the officer. As far as the cigars being handed off that was in the woman's briefing.


Are the witnesses you are talking about more credible than the ones that say they saw Brown get executed by that cop with his hands up? Why do you act as if your witnesses are more credible than the other witnesses? You say Brown and this community has a history violence so they deserve this yet you totally neglect the history of this police department and the multiple times they have gotten away with police abuse.

Why is Brown's history and this community's history more relevant to you than the Police departments history? Brown's history matters but this departments history of police abuse doesn't matter?

----------


## familydog

> And there are persistent rumors bubbling that this isn't the first time the Gentle Giant has attacked someone. It is believed that he was involved in an altercation with one of his teachers. So if this goes to trial, it's likely going to get worse for the Brown family. Brown sounds like a bully.


Who really knows for sure, but Brown definitely is not the innocent and peaceful teen the media is making him out to be. That's not to say he was asking to be killed. However, he is not exempt from personal responsibility. People are throwing the term racist around and I hate to do it here, but I do believe that those who want to exempt a black adult with complete mental faculty from personal responsibility are skirting that racist line. If you leave your wallet in a public space and later come back to find it stolen, you do share in some responsibility for the aggression against you.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Are the witnesses you are talking about more credible than the ones that say they saw Brown get executed by that cop with his hands up?


AuH20's witness is an anonymous woman on a call in radio show who said she got the story from Wilson's significant other.  She said that Brown "bum rushes" and "taunts" Wilson, but at least two eyewitnesses contradict this and have publicly stated that Brown had his hands up. 

His other witness is a person on the aftermath video who does not even say what AuH20 claims the witness said.

----------


## familydog

> He is hardly doomed if the prosecutor ends up being a twenty something veteran of this judicial system that lost a father to being killed while in the line of duty as a police officer and is condemning the governor for denigrating the local police for by replacing them with Highway Patrol. Just a wee bit of bias there...


Ok, let's talk conspiracy. Stefan Molyneux proposes that the Democrat party is driven by unions. The police have one of the largest and most powerful unions in the country. Why would a Democrat party ally alienate a substantial voting base in an election year? Especially in an election year where Republicans are poised to take back the Senate and strengthen their numbers in the House.

That hypothesis is no less credible than the idea that there is a vast conspiracy to cover up for this cop.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Ok, let's talk conspiracy. Stefan Molyneux proposes that the Democrat party is driven by unions. The police have one of the largest and most powerful unions in the country. Why would a Democrat party ally alienate a substantial voting base in an election year? Especially in an election year where Republicans are poised to take back the Senate and strengthen their numbers in the House.
> 
> That hypothesis is no less credible than the idea that there is a vast conspiracy to cover up for this cop.


cover-up?

meh..

you would have to side with Law Enforcement  determing that the killing was justified. 

well...was it?

----------


## AuH20

> Are the witnesses you are talking about more credible than the ones that say they saw Brown get executed by that cop with his hands up? Why do you act as if your witnesses are more credible than the other witnesses? You say Brown and this community has a history violence so they deserve this yet you totally neglect the history of this police department and the multiple times they have gotten away with police abuse.
> 
> Why is Brown's history and this community's history more relevant to you than the Police departments history? Brown's history matters but this departments history of police abuse doesn't matter?


St. Louis and the surrounding suburbs are one of the most crime ridden areas in the country. So we have two elements at work. A dysfunctional, criminal populace and an out of control police department. This isn't a one sided portrait as you outlined.

----------


## familydog

> well...was it?


Chances are we will never know.

----------


## twomp

> St. Louis and the surrounding suburbs are one of the most crime ridden areas in the country. So we have two elements at work. A dysfunctional, criminal populace and an out of control police department. This isn't a one sided portrait as you outlined.


How one sided did I portray this? I asked you why you act as if one set of witnesses are more credible than the other set. I was asking for your logic behind that. If both witnesses were credible and both the history of the community and the history of the police department are sketchy, one would think that you would be neutral on this. Yet, it is very clear. You believe one side over the other and I would like to know why.

----------


## AuH20

> AuH20's witness is an anonymous woman on a call in radio show who said she got the story from Wilson's significant other.  She said that Brown "bum rushes" and "taunts" Wilson, but at least two eyewitnesses contradict this and have publicly stated that Brown had his hands up. 
> 
> *His other witness is a person on the aftermath video who does not even say what AuH20 claims the witness said.*


You are mistaken. See bolded transcript from video.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...s-the-Incident




> #1 How’d he get from there to there?
> 
> #2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
> 
> {crosstalk}
> 
> #2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
> 
> {crosstalk}
> ...

----------


## thoughtomator

Unfortunately it's hard to believe anything at this point, everyone's got a motive to make stuff up to push the story in the direction they favor.

----------


## AuH20

> How one sided did I portray this? I asked you why you act as if one set of witnesses are more credible than the other set. I was asking for your logic behind that. If both witnesses were credible and both the history of the community and the history of the police department are sketchy, one would think that you would be neutral on this. Yet, it is very clear. You believe one side over the other and I would like to know why.


We already had the prime witness shown to be omitting certain facts, like the prior cigar incident. We have substantiated reports that the police officer got walloped with an orbital bone fracture. Logically speaking, 99.9% of white officers in this country are not going to execute a black teen in broad daylight in a section 8 housing neighborhood with tens of neighbors out. Not happening in this day and age where the racial environment is so polarized. And if they are ruthless enough to do something so abhorrent, they would likely do it in a dark alleyway or a secluded area. I'd say that the chances of that happening to a white teen would be much higher. There had to be a catalyst in which the officer felt his life was in danger.

----------


## thoughtomator

Meet Officer Gofuckyourself:

----------


## twomp

> We already had the prime witness shown to be omitting certain facts, like the prior cigar incident. We have substantiated reports that the police officer got walloped with an orbital bone fracture. Logically speaking, 99.9% of white officers in this country are not going to execute a black teen in broad daylight in a section 8 housing neighborhood with tens of neighbors out. Not happening in this day and age where the racial environment is so polarized. And if they are going to do it they would likely do it in a dark alleyway or secluded area. I'd say that the chances of that happening to a white teen would be much higher. There had to be a catalyst in which the officer felt his life was in danger.


OMITTING facts? Are you seriously going to say that? Who has omitted more facts? The "prime witness" or the Ferguson police department? Why don't you care that the police department is omitting facts? Why is this person who omitted ONE fact much more relevant than the police department who has so far OMITTED almost everything? 99.9% leaves room for 0.01%. 

Your only argument so far that this teen deserved to be executed is that a "white officer wouldn't do that" and a couple witnesses have said this and that. Yet, at the time, you totally neglect all the evidence on the other side like witnesses saying that he had his hands up. You have already made the judgement that this guy deserved to be executed because he stole cigars and grabbed the clerks t-shirt. 

That is your right but you have come to this decision while listening to one side and completely dismissing the other side. Do you work for the U.S. government media by any chance? Because I swear, Obama is doing the exact same thing in Ukraine. He tells one side then completely ignores the evidence on the other side.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> You are mistaken. See bolded transcript from video.



There's is nothing in the video about Brown "running," "charging," "bull rushing," or "bum rushing" Wilson.  You are also using a transcription done by someone who acknowledges he has no skill at transcribing.

The Conservative Treehouse article acknowledges that technical equipment would be beneficial for transcribing the audio. The transcriber even says, "...my seriously rough attempt at transcription..." In other words, he has no training in audio, transcription, or anything related. In other words, he listened to the video like everyone else and typed what he thought he heard.

The transcription is technically done incorrectly. It does not even follow basic rules of transcription. It is, for example, riddled with punctuation errors, potentially changing the meanings and context.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> There had to be a catalyst in which the officer felt his life was in danger.


Maybe there was a barking Labrador pup in the yard.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> As far as the cigars being handed off that was in the woman's briefing.





> What woman?  What briefing?



Do you have an answer to my question?  Are you talking about the anonymous woman who gives her third hand hearsay account on the radio call in show?  If so, then she did not saying anything about cigars being handed off.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Unfortunately it's hard to believe anything at this point, everyone's got a motive to make stuff up to push the story in the direction they favor.


I agree with this.  It's hard to know what to believe, but it's a little easier to know what not to believe.  What we should not believe is some of the nonsense stated on this forum that has no supporting evidence.

----------


## moostraks

> You are mistaken. See bolded transcript from video.
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...s-the-Incident


And using your bolded portion it could also be translated as the police shooting at him, and against conventional thought that one would stop and wait or run faster away, he sees someone who turns around and is coming back towards the police. The bum rushing is speculation and not evidenced from this particular exchange unless one wants to see it eluded to here. So how have the police been treating the citizens here since this incident occurred?

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> ... he sees someone who turns around and is coming back towards the police.


Two witnesses have publicly stated that they did not hear anything verbal from either Brown or Wilson.  Did Brown just walk back toward Wilson in what he thought was a surrender move?  Did Wilson yell for him to stop and it was not heard/recollected by the witnesses?  Did Wilson or Brown saying something, but what they said was drowned out by the noise of gunfire?  Did Wilson try to yell something, but lost his voice in the very heightened tension?

----------


## orenbus

Most likely nothing will happen tonight but posting this just in case.

15 minutes to sunset

#####

Here are some streams (will be updating this list as they come online)


Mix of Streams (with Scanner in background)
http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution


KARG Argus Radio
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483

Civilian Media
http://www.livestream.com/civilianmediatv

CNN
http://www.livenewschat.eu/breaking/

MSNBC
http://www.livenewschat.eu/politics/


### Some streams that should be streaming soon ###


Credo Action
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8U...6PuJr3kfHMMn7A

Alex Jones
http://www.ustream.tv/realalexjones

KMOV local channel 4 (late night stream)
http://www.kmov.com/

Local Fox 2 stream
http://fox2now.com/on-air/live-streaming/

Timp Pool reporting for Vice News
http://new.livestream.com/timcast

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Darren Wilson Supporter at Mike Brown Protest

----------


## AuH20

This is hilarious.

----------


## AuH20

Someone give this man a medal for writing this.. He rips into all parties.

http://www.ivymikecafe.com/2014/08/2...les-collide-2/

----------


## orenbus

This making its way around the net:

"Police officer did not have a broken eye socket."

Just saw a CNN report that sources close to the investigation confirm, no broken or fractured eye socket or orbital blowout occurred.

This would conflict earlier reports such as this one that talked about the specific injury.




The clarification that no serious injury to his eye comes on the heels of another video coming out showing Darren Wilson after the event talking with another officer, while not appearing to be in great pain, of course this is all speculation. What is worth noting is that the media's "sources close to the investigation" are beginning to conflict with each other in terms of the actual report given by the officer the day or days after the event occurred and specific facts of what happened to the officer himself. It also seems now that earlier reports from the St. Louis Dispatch about a dozen or so witnesses corroborating the officer's story is false and those statements have been walked back as mentioned in the above video.

----------


## phill4paul

> On August 12, Mya Aaten-White was walking back to her car after leaving a protest near the now infamous Quik Trip in Ferguson, Missouri. Shots rang out. She remembers a young man telling her she’d been shot in the head. She remembers police on the scene questioning her. She took a photo of herself in the ambulance and posted it to Instagram.
> 
> The media immediately reported that it was a drive by shooting. But Aaten-White doesn’t understand why the press is saying that; she doesn’t remember any cars, just the young black men who helped her to safety, and the cops on the scene who questioned her while she lay prone with a bullet in her skull.
> 
> *Doctors didn’t remove the bullet for a few days, worried that they’d injure her worse. After they operated and dislodged the bullet, police officers showed up at the hospital and took the evidence. Her lawyer has since tried to find out where the bullet went. Neither county nor Ferguson police officers have any idea what bullet they’re talking about.*
> 
> In other words, the one piece of physical evidence that might tell Aaten-White who shot her seems to have disappeared into thin air. Worse still, she says she’s been waiting for officers to interview her about the shooting, but so far none have materialized.
> 
> *A young woman was shot in the head leaving a protest. Police took the bullet from the hospital, and have since claimed they don’t have it. Officials don’t seem interested in finding out what happened.*


http://privacysos.org/node/1504

----------


## SeanTX

> This making its way around the net:
> 
> "Police officer did not have a broken eye socket."
> 
> Just saw a CNN report that sources close to the investigation confirm, no broken or fractured eye socket or orbital blowout occurred.
> 
> This would conflict earlier reports such as this one that talked about the specific injury.


When the Fullerton police beat Kelly Thomas to death, there were early reports that one or more of the officers sustained "broken bones" from the ferocity of his resisting arrest. And it was claimed that one or more of them had to go to the hospital with these injuries. It later turned out that all they got were boos boos, from things like having their fists assaulted by his face as they beat him.

Cops always love to play the victim whenever any criticism comes their way, like when they claim they are receiving "death threats." These so-called threats usually aren't even credible, just angry comments made on Facebook , and they know they aren't credible, but realize complaining about it will win them some sympathy and help distract from whatever people were mad about in the first place.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

What is controversial Holder's game?

*Holder AWOL for Miriam Carey last year*

----------


## orenbus

Don Lemon and Nancy Grace discuss how the Broken Eye Socket Claim is false.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...o%2FOZzcLS4S9A

----------


## Schifference

> He literally asked for it.
> 
> Truth be told, if someone was coming at me with a deadly weapon I'd roll his rear end backwards about three times too.


I totally Disagree. What is the problem with our society. The people on the street obviously did not feel threatened. Excessive force was definitely used. The cops did not have to exit there vehicle and put themselves in danger. They could have utilized an arbitrator that could have deescalated the situation rather than gun him down. The only reason this guy approached the cops was because they approached him. They could have kept a safe distance. Could have even pulled up with the window down and talked to him. If the guy advanced on them they could have backed up.. No need to shoot in this instance.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

> I totally Disagree. What is the problem with our society. The people on the street obviously did not feel threatened. Excessive force was definitely used. The cops did not have to exit there vehicle and put themselves in danger. They could have utilized an arbitrator that could have deescalated the situation rather than gun him down. The only reason this guy approached the cops was because they approached him. They could have kept a safe distance. Could have even pulled up with the window down and talked to him. If the guy advanced on them they could have backed up.. No need to shoot in this instance.


It was suicide-by-cop.  He knew exactly what he needed to do to get them to shoot him.  They weren't rolling up there to talk to him, they came there to take him into custody at gunpoint (AKA "felony stop").  The guy even moved out of the way first so the bystanders wouldn't be in the line of fire.

People on the street know police procedure, and they know how to exploit it.  A long time ago they may have had a policy of stepping back or talking first, but if the streets know that is the policy, someone will eventually use it to ambush the cops.  That's why they don't $#@! around today.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

For those saying the locals do this (looting/riots) to their own community, it seems only 7 of the more than 160 arrested (with the majority of those arrests being failure to disperse  ) were actually from Ferguson, then consider the thousands that were actually protesting in the past close to two weeks now.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## thoughtomator

> It was suicide-by-cop.  He knew exactly what he needed to do to get them to shoot him.  They weren't rolling up there to talk to him, they came there to take him into custody at gunpoint (AKA "felony stop").  The guy even moved out of the way first so the bystanders wouldn't be in the line of fire.
> 
> People on the street know police procedure, and they know how to exploit it.  A long time ago they may have had a policy of stepping back or talking first, but if the streets know that is the policy, someone will eventually use it to ambush the cops.  That's why they don't $#@! around today.


Treating every encounter with another person as a potential ambush scenario is something I would expect from a war vet with severe PTSD, not from a local police officer. That is real, clinical-diagnosis paranoia.

----------


## Schifference

With all the fancy smancy gadgets available and the awarness we have gained from many years of experience, I would think it not to difficult to take that guy down without killing or using lethal force. Throw a f*cking net over him and put him in a van and drop him off for a pshcy eval. If the guy wants to commit suicide then that is what he should do all by himself after he gets back out. Police should stay clear of that type of sh*t. Their reputation is tarnished enough. Why shoot when that is not necessary. There is no doubt in my mind that guy could have been detained/arrested/brought to a lock down psych unit alive.

----------


## fr33

> With all the fancy smancy gadgets available and the awarness we have gained from many years of experience, I would think it not to difficult to take that guy down without killing or using lethal force. Throw a f*cking net over him and put him in a van and drop him off for a pshcy eval. If the guy wants to commit suicide then that is what he should do all by himself after he gets back out. Police should stay clear of that type of sh*t. Their reputation is tarnished enough. Why shoot when that is not necessary. There is no doubt in my mind that guy could have been detained/arrested/brought to a lock down psych unit alive.


I just don't agree. When I consider something like this, I make it personal. Nobody should have to risk dying or injury detaining an aggressor with a blade if they can help it. He made that decision and the logical consequences followed. Pull a knife on me, and prepare to die.

----------


## AuH20

I was talking to a NYPD cop tonight and he told me only Sgts are given tasers. Seemed kinda odd but apparently they must be worried about potential lawsuits.

----------


## CPUd

> Treating every encounter with another person as a potential ambush scenario is something I would expect from a war vet with severe PTSD, not from a local police officer. That is real, clinical-diagnosis paranoia.


The PD is a bureaucracy, same as any government service.  For a long time, I've always thought that when interacting with the public, the bureaucracy acts irrationally, and does very few things that make sense.  But if you look at it from the point of view of the bureaucracy, it makes perfect sense because it evolves its policy in the interest of self-preservation.  It's probably true that particular incident could have been handled differently without someone getting killed, and the PD could even change its policy to reflect that, but given enough time, it will revert back to the way it is now, and probably get worse (from a human's perspective).  Because people have figured out they can exploit a bureaucracy, if only they interact with it with their own interests in mind.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

A conversation about how to have a conversation

----------


## Schifference

> sorry if repost:


Schiff should have stayed out of this. Why would he want to go on a rant without knowing the facts? What makes him any better of an expert than anyone else? I think he loses credibility by giving his opinion on this topic.

----------


## AuH20



----------


## rockandrollsouls

So, did Brown have a knife or no? I'm hearing some people say he was armed, others say unarmed

----------


## orenbus



----------


## AuH20

The other shoe is going to drop when Brown's juvenile record is revealed. A court already sealed it for now.

----------


## CPUd

> So, did Brown have a knife or no? I'm hearing some people say he was armed, others say unarmed


There are 2 separate shooting incidents being discussed in this thread.  The one where the dude had a knife is this one:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...illing-GRAPHIC

----------


## orenbus

Interesting exchange, at time stamp *14:20* in this video, this woman expresses disgust that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson came to Ferguson. Talks about how Celebrities and Politicians introducing themselves muddies up the issue with unneeded politics.

----------


## moostraks

> The other shoe is going to drop when Brown's juvenile record is revealed. A court already sealed it for now.


Why certainly because his juvie record should be all that is needed to exonerate all of the police behavior since this incident occurred. Were it not for what Brown did as a child they would never have arrested journalists after walking them into things or fired on protesters with their hands in the air...

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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## orenbus

Reporter here covers one event as the looting occurred, had not seen this before.

----------


## orenbus

//

----------


## orenbus

Inside The World Of White Ferguson On Facebook
The exchanges of predominately white commenters reveal frustration, and a deep cultural divide.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/i...on-on-facebook




> The public Facebook group “Ferguson, Missouri Friends & Neighbors,” is an interesting window into the conversation some residents are having about the unrest in their town.
> 
> After the shooting death of Michael Brown, the usual community announcements gave way to an active forum for discussing — and criticizing — the attention Ferguson is receiving.
> 
> The members of the group are not exclusively white, but white Ferguson residents appear to make up the bulk of the comments on the page.
> 
> more at link:
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/i...on-on-facebook

----------


## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## orenbus

A number of interesting points in this Ben Swann interview including militarization, how Al Sharpton is a charlatan, and reports now that the military has halted giving MRAP to police because of the strong possibility of the United States going back into Iraq to deal with ISIS.

----------


## orenbus

SO MY QUESTION IS WHERE DID FERGUSON AND ALL THE TOWNS ACROSS THE COUNTRY GET THIER MRAPs FROM IF NOT THE MILITARY?!?!?!111 

And if they are not getting it highly discounted from the military then how much are they spending on the MRAPs vs. lets say getting dash cams in the cruisers, police body cams, training, retention, and other approaches that go about preventing long drawn out controversy such as what is going on today. I'm wondering now if this military spokesperson is carefully choosing his words as he speaks about Ferguson and perhaps not St. Louis County?

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> A number of interesting points in this Ben Swann interview including militarization, how Al Sharpton is a charlatan,


I don't know if the clown in the video (the black guy, not Swann) has an actual job other than flapping his gums, but he did not give equal time to Dana Loesch with his Al Sharpton comment.  Loesch, the national talk radio host, could also be called a charlatan by giving air time to an anonymous caller who gave a third hand account of the Brown-Wilson incident. 

This Armstrong fellow (black guy being interviewed by Swann) talks about Sharpton fanning the flames, but he did not talk about the flames fanned by the anonymous caller on the Loesch show.  The anonymous caller's account is looking more and more unraveled, as eyewitnesses publicly state versions that are not matching up with her account.

----------


## phill4paul

> St. Louis Area Cop Thinks Protesters Should Be ‘Put Down Like Rabid Dogs’
> 
> A police officer just 15 miles away from the ongoing protests in Ferguson, Mo. allegedly said he thinks the protesters should have been “put down like rabid dogs.”
> 
> Officer Matthew Pappert is a police officer with the Glendale Police Department. He has been an officer since 2008. Pappert received the 2009 City of Glendale Community Service Award and the 2013 Kirkwood American Legion Post and Kirkwood Optimist Club Public Safety Award.
> 
> He also apparently holds contempt against the protesters in Ferguson, according to screenshots obtained by The Daily Caller.
> 
> In a series of Facebook posts beginning Aug. 17, Pappert allegedly wrote, “I’m sick of these protesters. You are a burden on society and a blight on the community.”
> ...



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/22/st...ke-rabid-dogs/

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## orenbus

/sigh

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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## dude58677

Let's also not forget that cops plant evidence.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> 







Information is missing because it has been redacted.

----------


## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## MRK

> SO MY QUESTION IS WHERE DID FERGUSON AND ALL THE TOWNS ACROSS THE COUNTRY GET THIER MRAPs FROM IF NOT THE MILITARY?!?!?!111 
> 
> And if they are not getting it highly discounted from the military then how much are they spending on the MRAPs vs. lets say getting dash cams in the cruisers, police body cams, training, retention, and other approaches that go about preventing long drawn out controversy such as what is going on today. I'm wondering now if this military spokesperson is carefully choosing his words as he speaks about Ferguson and perhaps not St. Louis County?


They got all the APCs and assault rifles from the past 20 years from the looting of the terrorists at Waco, of course. What a haul that was!

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> 





The end of that video is very funny.  There is some dunce on Fox News who says, ..."eyewitnesses say that Michael Brown charged at him [Wilson]."  I have to wonder if the eyewitnesses to which Fox refers is the anonymous woman who got air time on the Dana Loesch radio show. I wonder if Fox News knows the difference between an eyewitness and a third hand hearsay account from Wilson's significant other.  

Or, maybe Fox News got their story from that amateur transcription of the aftermath video-audio.  That's the video-audio where people misread the transcription.  Seems they read the word "running" and took that to mean that Brown must have be running toward Wilson rather than running away.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

According to eyewitness Michael Brady, Brown is 20-25 feet away from Wilson when Brown falls dead to the pavement.  Brady states that he misses about 5 seconds of the interaction between the time he is at his window and the time he runs outside.  Could that be the 5 seconds that Brown had his hands in the air, as publicly stated by at least two eyewitnesses?

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

I'm guessing that three points of contention in any possible trial would be the position of Brown's arms (hands up), Brown's movement, and whether Wilson shot at a fleeing Brown.  

The first issue of hands up can be muddled by discussing how high hands were raised and for how long.  If Brown lowers an arm at any point because he was convulsing from wounds, then Wilson can claim he thought Brown was reaching for a weapon.

The second point will be whether Brown froze or whether he moved toward Wilson.  If he moves toward Wilson, then how fast does he move?  How many steps does he take?  How far away is he from Wilson?

The third point might be the most difficult for the defense.  Do they just deny that Wilson took any shots at a fleeing Brown?  Will they contend that Wilson fired upon Brown because Brown instantly turned around and there was a moment between the turning and the hands being raised?

Another issue would be redactions in Wilson's account, but this will be sidestepped.

I could see the preponderance of evidence resulting in a trial; however, the issues above can be easily addressed by an attorney.  There is also the consideration that any prosecution will not be terribly vigorous.  The prosecutor will simply ask each witness his account of the events.  If you're sitting in the courtroom, then it might be difficult, at times, to distinguish between the "state's" case and the defense case.

This case could probably be handled by a halfway competent defense attorney.  Wilson is likely acquitted.

I'm totally guessing, but I could see this above being the result.

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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## CPUd

He seems to be assuming certain things happened.

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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## hardrightedge

Compare this...

http://youtu.be/4-wlDI6hg18?t=7m57s


to this...

http://youtu.be/AlMjhoYPmZ8?t=1m43s

----------


## orenbus

> I'm guessing that three points of contention in any possible trial would be the position of Brown's arms (hands up), Brown's movement, and whether Wilson shot at a fleeing Brown.  
> 
> ...
> 
> Wilson is likely acquitted.


I'm starting to change my view on this and agree with you that the justice system will find no fault in Wilson's actions, unless more information that we don't know about comes out during the grand jury such as video of the incident that corroborates the eye witnesses testimony. But I think a acquittal will be unnecessary as charges will not be formally made due to different reasons that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the facts, or with race, or anything else, but instead the blind trust majority of people have in authority figures in this country. Between public opinion of police always being the "good guys" and the fact that the prosecutor will not have the ability to strike jurors like in a regular trial that would come from a jury selection process that allows for voir dire, a grand jury of tainted members will ultimately end in no charges being pressed regardless of whether he is criminally responsible for the death or is found to truly have no fault.

Here is a minute and a half of what I think is something that is a perfect example of how our society believes, without question, in authority figures when it comes to trials and our justice system. I think it stems from our nature as human beings in how we go about learning, but also is supported by our societal norms of acceptable behavior.

Fast forward this video to *30:05*, here a defense attorney is asking a potential juror if they would have any issue looking at the merit of witnesses testimony and giving it the same weight as a law enforcement agent that was also giving testimony, based on the judge's instruction of the law as it is understood.




The potential juror who's brother served as a Chief of Police in a nearby town, says "hopefully", upon further questioning she says well *I would probably take a police officer's word over a witness or something like that and two other potential jurors pipe up and say "so would I". She further follows up and says because that's how we were raised.* At 38:55 the Judge identifies that those three Jurors will most likely be excused (and they were) for cause, because it was going to become clear to everyone that because of their inability to give a citizen and a LEO equal weight in their testimony they would not be able to view the case objectively and be impartial.

The inability to stay objective at a time when you are asked to be the most objective, is really a flaw in humanity and in our society. Anyway if you are curious Pastor Steven Anderson (which you have probably seen his youtube videos such as this one or this one) was found innocent of all charges, this case relates to a border patrol interaction where the police showed up and decided to bust out his window, taze him, cut his head against the glass, made fun of him while he was cuffed, and charged him with not following a lawful command and disrupting traffic, because he didn't want to go to secondary stop area and just wanted to go about his business. He was found innocent, in no small part, because of the ability to question jurors by the defense attorney and have the judge strike them through a process of challenging for cause, without this they would have had at least three if not more jurors that were tainted by the inability to be objective when it came to testimony of law enforcement vs. regular citizens. As a side note in this particular case, at the end of the hearing one of the jurors went to the guy and thanked him for defending our rights as United States citizens. 

So getting back to the case of the State vs. Wilson, lets say some of the members of the grand jury are able to fight through the nature of always believing the police's side of the story above others, there is still the consideration that some there will make, that the police have a hard job to do so more lenience on issues like these should be given if say it is seen as the death of Michael Brown happened due to carelessness (or not following proper procedure) vs. malicious motive, i.e., manslaughter. Anyway the point is that without jury selection and because of the predisposition especially in a case like this many grand jury members may believe the officer is innocent without question and this opinion will not change, regardless of the evidence or testimony, because why wouldn't he be?

----------


## Antischism

Livestreams:

http://www.ustream.tv/z
http://www.ustream.tv/occupy-it1
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/filmthepoliceportland

----------


## CPUd

For contrast:
*Elmendorf police chief killed in confrontation with suspect*




> SAN ANTONIO - The chief of police in Elmendorf is dead and a suspect behind bars after a violent confrontation.
> 
> Michael Pimentel died Saturday after being shot at least twice by a man he had stopped while on duty on South First Avenue and East Ninth Street.
> 
> According to the Bexar County Sheriff's Office, Pimentel and the suspect, identified as 24-year-old Joshua Manuel Lopez, got into a confrontation after the traffic stop around 11:30 a.m.
> 
> "You know, on even a quiet, peaceful day in South Texas in a small town, it can turn deadly in an instance and it re-enforces the dangers our law enforcement officers face every single day," said Bexar County Sheriff Susan Pamerleau.
> 
> Pimentel suffered gunshot wounds to his stomach and shoulder during the confrontation.
> ...


http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat...3/copshot.html

----------


## orenbus

Tom Woods interviews Will Grigg
Good account of events so far in Ferguson and legal aspects of law enforcement defense approaches in situations like this.

----------


## orenbus

> He seems to be assuming certain things happened.


Yea I've less respect for him over the years almost every time I watch one of his videos on different topics, he sounds more and more like a Fox News demagogue, and certainly seems to be taking his talking points right out of Sean Hannity's play book on this one.

----------


## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## orenbus

From this video it sounds like Piaget Crenshaw's boss may be a witness as well, this interview seems as though it happened before she got her phone back from the police.

----------


## orenbus

Darren Wilson supporters Aug 24

----------


## thoughtomator

> Darren Wilson supporters Aug 24


save this for if you run across anyone still confused as to Germans were thinking in the 1930s

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> From this video it sounds like Piaget Crenshaw's boss may be a witness as well, this interview seems as though it happened before she got her phone back from the police.






Crenshaw's boss (or co-worker) is Tiffany Mitchell, another eyewitness who I've seen interviewed on at least two TV programs.  Mitchell appears with Crenshaw in one of the interviews I watched.

Crenshaw's motions while giving her verbal account in this interview seem to indicate that Brown actually had his hands up before he turned around to face Wilson.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Darren Wilson supporters Aug 24





People criticize Al Sharpton for the very same thing done by the woman in the video.

----------


## orenbus

> Crenshaw's boss (or co-worker) is Tiffany Mitchell, another eyewitness who I've seen interviewed on at least two TV programs.  Mitchell appears with Crenshaw in one of the interviews I watched.


Your right. I didn't make that connection at the time, thanks. Here is one of the joint interviews.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

> 


That was like 3 minutes of him saying the autopsy doesn't reveal anything about what happened that wouldn't also be revealed with the existing evidence.

----------


## orenbus

> Tim Lynch, Director, Project on Criminal Justice, *Cato Institute*.
> Recent events in Ferguson, Missouri raise many issues concerning American policing and the criminal justice system generally. Join Tim Lynch for a live, online Q&A as he discusses the ongoing situation in Ferguson, including the shooting of Michael Brown; police misconduct and officer-involved shootings; the right to protest; the militarization of policing; public safety; and the role of the federal government.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



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## orenbus



----------


## sparebulb

> 


What a perfect psy-op.  The PTBs insist that the rabble "obey" the regulators.  But, they also don't care if the rabble don't obey, for it offers the delicious option of forcing obeyance.

A beautiful win-win scenario for them.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



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## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Breaking News: New Alleged audio of Mike brown shooting with attorney interviewed Aug 25 2014

----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

U R SO PRETTY
U R SO FINE

----------


## orenbus

> U R SO PRETTY
> U R SO FINE


Yea kind of weird, my first thought was is this guy trolling? If it wasn't for his lawyer doing interviews I'd probably still think that. The whole thing reminds me of that movie magnolia for some reason.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Breaking News: New Alleged audio of Mike brown shooting with attorney interviewed Aug 25 2014



If that audio is real, then it's really hard to figure out what's going on.








> 


So her answer to why she supports Wilson is that she worked for the police and has police in her family.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Breaking News: New Alleged audio of Mike brown shooting with attorney interviewed Aug 25 2014


I count ten gunshots in nine seconds of audio, first six, then a second or two pause, then the other four.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



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## orenbus



----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> 




Funny stuff.  That imbecile tells the foreign guy to speak English, but the foreign guy actually speaks good English.

It really just goes to the prejudice of the Wilson supporters.  They don't see the evidence of good English the way they are not paying attention to evidence in the Brown-Wilson case.  They dislike Brown the same way they dislike accents. 

Funny how some Americans think they're smarter or better educated than the foreigner, but they're actually dumber.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> I count ten gunshots in nine seconds of audio, first six, then a second or two pause, then the other four.


I also heard ten.  These people are saying 11, but maybe it's not that significant since it's six versus seven shots in that first burst.

----------


## SeanTX

> *I also heard ten*.  These people are saying 11, but maybe it's not that significant since it's six versus seven shots in that first burst.


A reporter on KMOX (STL news radio station) said that they were told that 12 spent casings were picked up at the scene. I heard this just a couple of days after it happened. So it's somewhere between 10 and 12.  There's no excuse why they haven't come out and officially given an exact number -- keep dragging those feet.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> A reporter on KMOX (STL news radio station) said that they were told that 12 spent casings were picked up at the scene. I heard this just a couple of days after it happened. So it's somewhere between 10 and 12.  There's no excuse why they haven't come out and officially given an exact number -- keep dragging those feet.


I was wondering about this too.  There's no good reason to not reveal the number of casings.  Sounds like 12 casings would mean two extra shots, but I'd like to know the person who gave the 12 casing figure to KMOX.

If that audio is real AND there were 12 shots, then why are the other two shots not heard?  Did the guy with the audio turn on his recorder after any shots were fired?

This is really getting to be too much speculation for me.

----------


## thoughtomator

Ultimately, rather than the specific count, the significant fact here is that there was a cluster of shots fired, *a pause*, and then another cluster of shots.

----------


## orenbus

One thing that is missing from the recording is the alleged first shot in the car that some sources reported happened such as Dorian Johnson and "Josie" at *2:15* in this video.

----------


## orenbus

LOL @ dramatic zoom.

Obviously he's not talking to most of us since Libertarians and Ron Paul Republicans from what I can tell are all completely disgusted by the militarization and police reaction the days after the shooting. I wonder though what the typical NeoCon type Republican view would be on police performance when it comes to "use of force" and specifically on the Ferguson response, what would they say?

----------


## orenbus

LOL last video I posted asks where are the Conservative Republicans? This video asks where are the Dems?







> Few Democratic leaders have been talking about the events in Ferguson, Mississippi. Andrew Whitman and the RFL staff discuss why no national Democratic politician has spoken out on the issue.

----------


## orenbus

//

----------


## orenbus

So let me know if I am understanding this right. It sounds like from this report, Missouri law allows for a LEO to use deadly force to execute a arrest on someone suspected of a felony regardless of if the officer fears for their life or fears that anyone else's life is in imminent danger at the time, which would basically make Darren Wilson immune to prosecution in this case if it can be shown that Mike Brown committed a felony.

----------


## CPUd

> So let me know if I am understanding this right. It sounds like from this report, Missouri law allows for a LEO to use deadly force to execute a arrest on someone suspected of a felony regardless of if the officer fears for their life or fears that anyone else's life is in imminent danger at the time, which would basically make Darren Wilson immune to prosecution in this case if it can be shown that Mike Brown committed a felony.


They would just have to show he was a suspect, though at the same time they released the surveillance video, the police chief came out and said he wasn't.

----------


## thoughtomator

It would appear to make any cop immune from prosecution no matter how egregious the circumstances, since it relies entirely on what the officer believes.

If the law is coming down definitively on the side of letting cops get away with murder, the riots of previous weeks will look like a children's slumber party compared to what is to come.

I'll go on record and predict that if Wilson is declared immune, we're going to see a wave of vigilante action directed at anyone wearing a badge.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Wilson could have shot Brown's right arm more than once as Brown is fleeing.  The arm is a mobile part of the body, so Brown's arm could have been turned when Wilson is shooting from behind.  If Brown is hit in the arm by the first shot in the first burst, then it could have easily been turned in an awkward position (even while running).  Brown then turns around after the first burst of six shots.  He puts his hands up as described by eyewitnesses Mitchell and Crenshaw. 

There is a very slight pause between the first shot in the second burst, and the final three shots in the second burst.  After the first shot in the second burst, Brown could have convulsed in the position that eyewitness Michael Brady describes (arms curling and body falling/leaning forward).  This is when Wilson fires the final three shots.

----------


## orenbus

Here is a visualization of the audio and slow down playback.

----------


## orenbus

Videos at link:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-g...son-monologue/





> Jon Stewart returned from a long summer break to tackle the unrest in Ferguson over the past few weeks. In fact, he started out by taking the Ferguson Challenge. It’s like the Ice Bucket Challenge, only with mace and tear gas.
> 
> But in the main segment, Stewart set his sights mostly on Fox News, which he believed to be outraged about all the wrong things out of Ferguson. He played audio of Sean Hannity defending the cops and said, “You really have no $#@!ing idea, do you?”
> 
> Stewart said black people go through all sorts of things that white people don’t. He even revealed that when a black Daily Show correspondent in a suit was walking in New York city with a white Daily Show producer wearing “homeless elf attire,” it was the black correspondent who was stopped.
> 
> Stewart said, “You’re tired of hearing about it? Imagine how $#@!ing exhausting it is living it.”
> 
> In the second segment, correspondent Michael Che desperately raced to find a place where black people aren’t stopped and/or shot by the police. Long story short, he ended up in outer space.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Here is a visualization of the audio and slow down playback.





This could appear to match eyewitness Michael Brady's account and timetable.  Brady states that he runs from the window to the door after the first one or two shots in the first burst.  The gap between shots one and two in the first burst is slightly longer than any of the gaps in shots two through six.  

Brady states that it takes him less than five seconds to reach the door and resume viewing the encounter.  That is just about the amount of time between the first-second shot and the eighth shot.  Brady could have actually just resumed his viewing as Brown is hit by shot number seven.  Brown convulses after shot seven, in what Brady describes as curling his arms and leaning/falling toward Wilson.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

The more I see evidence and new evidence, the more I see this coming together.  It really does appear that Brown is shot at while fleeing,  turning and having his hands up, and then shot while surrendering.

We'll see.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> 







What is with the bimbo in this video?  She is talking about how we should not rush law enforcement?!!  They have not even revealed the number of shots or practically anything about this event. 

Her tone raises several levels and she gets emotionally involved with the Brown's attorney.  She acts likes she arguing with him instead of interviewing him.

What a dope and what an imbecilic interview.

----------


## orenbus

debtors prison?

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Reporter from St. Louis Dispatch interviewed, about what actually happened during looting/rioting and history of Ferguson.

----------


## Schifference

++ Rep to you Orenbus for your diligence to this issue!

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

> I was wondering about this too.  There's no good reason to not reveal the number of casings.  Sounds like 12 casings would mean two extra shots, but I'd like to know the person who gave the 12 casing figure to KMOX.
> 
> If that audio is real AND there were 12 shots, then why are the other two shots not heard?  Did the guy with the audio turn on his recorder after any shots were fired?
> 
> This is really getting to be too much speculation for me.


The true # of casings found is actually a good thing to keep from the public.  It is something they can verify against how many rounds are left in the officer's weapon.  If someone comes forward and says they were there and heard 4 or 5 shots, the witness is either unreliable or lying.

----------


## orenbus

Some in China criticize human rights issues in the United States as it relates to the events surrounding Ferguson, others in China look at their own country in retrospect of the media coverage human rights issues in Ferguson vs. their own country's (China) human right issues.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> The true # of casings found is actually a good thing to keep from the public.  It is something they can verify against how many rounds are left in the officer's weapon.  If someone comes forward and says they were there and heard 4 or 5 shots, the witness is either unreliable or lying.



That might make sense if the police were actually demonstrating any commitment to reliability and honesty.

I'll take a wild guess and say that one of the first things done by Wilson was contacting his union.  A shrewd union rep would have told him to include as little as possible on the initial police report.  The report narrative is fairly free form, so Wilson need only provide a framework with little to no detail.

Hard to tell the details of the anonymous woman giving her bogus account on the radio call in show, but you can bet it probably wasn't just some random call by somebody who got a detailed account from Wilson's girlfriend.

I'm guessing somebody looking out for Wilson made sure that the anonymous woman had/heard some type of conversation with Wilson's girlfriend.  Maybe they did not even have to go that far.  The details of how the radio call was done really would not matter because the woman was anonymous, and hence, will likely never be confronted.  Perhaps the anonymous woman collects a few emotional scraps from Wilson and the girlfriend.  Maybe she gets some other information.  Perhaps she is connected to the police department and collects the information that way, unbeknownst to the girlfriend.  Either way, the information is magically transformed into the polished and detailed narrative the anonymous woman laid out on Dana Loesch's radio show.  

The radio show narrative starts to unravel as more evidence is revealed, but it's already too late.  The narrative has already become cemented in the minds of Wilson supporters.

----------


## CPUd

The recording was made with the Glide app.  Glide says the recording was made 12:02:14 p.m on the day of the shooting.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Hillary Clinton Breaks Silence on Ferguson - " Our Streets Shouldn’t Look Like a War Zone " 



No specific solution proposals and speaking in platitudes.

----------


## orenbus

Side note: Utah unarmed man shot and killed by police.

----------


## orenbus

Houston local news discussion on Missouri Grand Jury

----------


## orenbus

Lawsuit against Police and Audio time stamp confirmed by Video Messaging Company.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## GunnyFreedom

> 


This bears repeating.  The most cogent analysis I have seen yet.  More perfectly articulates arguments I've been trying to make.  

I would also say that many of the actual events, such as the Brown shooting itself, are distractions.  They make people argue the specifics of one event, which may or may not be ambiguous at best (and more of the ambiguous ones are promoted in the media while the clearer and obvious ones are barely reported at all).  That means that everyone gets bogged down in the weeds arguing about round trajectories and forensic evidence, while the bigger issues of police militarization continue getting overlooked in favor of the individual sensationalized cases.  People can not see the authoritarian tyrannical forest, for the media sensationalized trees.

----------


## CPUd

> This bears repeating.  The most cogent analysis I have seen yet.  More perfectly articulates arguments I've been trying to make.  
> 
> I would also say that many of the actual events, such as the Brown shooting itself, are distractions.  They make people argue the specifics of one event, which may or may not be ambiguous at best (and more of the ambiguous ones are promoted in the media while the clearer and obvious ones are barely reported at all).  That means that everyone gets bogged down in the weeds arguing about round trajectories and forensic evidence, while the bigger issues of police militarization continue getting overlooked in favor of the individual sensationalized cases.  People can not see the authoritarian tyrannical forest, for the media sensationalized trees.


It's not getting overlooked this time.  The commentators will still spend a lot of time talking about the specifics of the shooting that they don't really know a lot about.  But I've watched a lot of the press conferences they are giving- both Ferguson and STL County, and when the embedded reporters try to ask questions to police; they are being asked about it every time.  The PDs are just now getting that poeple are taking issue and there might be something wrong with it.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> It's not getting overlooked this time.  The commentators will still spend a lot of time talking about the specifics of the shooting that they don't really know a lot about.  But I've watched a lot of the press conferences they are giving- both Ferguson and STL County, and when the embedded reporters try to ask questions to police; they are being asked about it every time.  The PDs are just now getting that poeple are taking issue and there might be something wrong with it.


It is an exception which is why it has struck conversation.  "The exception that proves the rule" as it were.  The buzz all over it reminds people that some topics are usually avoided.

----------


## CPUd

> It is an exception which is why it has struck conversation.  "The exception that proves the rule" as it were.  The buzz all over it reminds people that some topics are usually avoided.


It was also good timing, and an appropriate situation to roll out the message.

----------


## enhanced_deficit

What is shocking is that despite all the recent news, supporters of Darren Wilson fund raising had topped $400,000 and seemed on way to raise $ half million for him. Incredible.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> What is shocking is that despite all the recent news, supporters of Darren Wilson fund raising had topped $400,000 and seemed on way to raise $ half million for him. Incredible.


Those are mostly the folks who still can't see the forest for the trees.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> They make people argue the specifics of one event, which may or may not be ambiguous at best (and more of the ambiguous ones are promoted in the media while the clearer and obvious ones are barely reported at all)...


I see what you're saying, but at some point you need specifics to back up the larger claims.  I am coming to the conclusion that Wilson unambiguously shot at a fleeing Brown, shot Brown while Brown's hands were raised, and then executed him.  The reasons as to why this happened become more involved when sorting them out, but I suggest an itchy trigger finger resulting from programs like no hesitation targets.  Militarization also changes the degree and timetable for action in an encounter.  Making those types of connections can be much more difficult, but people are not listening anyway.  The story promoted by Wilson supporters keeps unraveling, but the money keeps rolling in.  It really goes to show how emotion often eclipses logic.

----------


## AuH20

Brown's juvenile record may lead to association with the Crips. 

http://youngcons.com/explosive-new-l...second-degree/



http://www.aol.com/article/2014/08/2...cord/20953546/

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> So let me know if I am understanding this right. It sounds like from this report, Missouri law allows for a LEO to use deadly force to execute a arrest on someone suspected of a felony regardless of if the officer fears for their life or fears that anyone else's life is in imminent danger at the time, which would basically make Darren Wilson immune to prosecution in this case if it can be shown that Mike Brown committed a felony.


The relevant section is 563.046. However, the online version does note contain a note I see here in my GF's "Handbook for Law Enforcement Officers" that specifically mentions Tennessee vs Garner. 

Here is a scan of the relevant page, including the note
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8...it?usp=sharing





> ++ Rep to you Orenbus for your diligence to this issue!


Yup

----------


## TheTexan

> 


No video?  I only listened to the first few seconds, but this would definitely be better if it had video.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Brown's juvenile record may lead to association with the Crips.


Or, it might only lead to a few more people reading this dime-a-dozen "journalist's" website.






> The citizen journo wrote in a Wednesday afternoon post to his site and on Twitter that he was told by law enforcement sources the black teen has a juvenile arrest record that is being kept private.


"Law enforcement sources."  Maybe that anonymous radio account woman who talked with Wilson's girlfriend had a conversation with the girlfriend's dog. 




> Confirmed earlier report that #MichaelBrown had juvenile arrest record involving second degree murder... Working on getting report #Ferguson.


  Nice work.  Keep working on getting the report you've already confirmed. 






> ...there are rumors he is a member of the notorious Crips street gang.


If you play Fleetwood Mac's Rumors album backwards, the lyrics say that Lindsey Buckingham is the devil.






> An explosive new lawsuit filed in St. Louis seeking the release of Michael Brown's juvenile criminal record.


You and Johnson keep working on your "confirmations" and "breaking" news stories.  I'm sure you'll come up with something "explosive" yet.

----------


## AuH20

> Or, it might only lead to a few more people reading this dime-a-dozen "journalist's" website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Law enforcement sources."  Maybe that anonymous radio account woman who talked with Wilson's girlfriend had a conversation with the girlfriend's dog. 
> 
>   Nice work.  Keep working on getting the report you've already confirmed. 
> ...


You have become so emotionally attached to Brown. Are you related to him? If it comes out that he's a bad guy, then so be it. If Wilson executed him, then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I have no dog in this hunt personally, but usually when the portrayed narrative is extreme in that the cop is the devil and Brown was the second coming of Gandhi, you can smell clever propaganda. If we were talking about an black honor student with no criminal record or recorded hostile tendencies, then this would appear to be likely gross negligence on part of the officer. But like they say, it takes two to tango. Normal, well adjusted people do not typically initiate life and death struggles with police officers. This entire case smells entirely rotten and I suspect misconduct on both Wilson and Brown's part.

----------


## invisible

> You have become so emotionally attached to Brown. Are you related to him? If it comes out that he's a bad guy, then so be it. If Wilson executed him, then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I have no dog in this hunt personally, but usually when the narrative is extreme in that the cop is the devil and Brown was the second coming of Gandhi, you can smell clever propaganda. If we were talking about an black honor student with no criminal record or recorded hostile tendencies, then this would appear to be likely gross negligence on part of the officer. But like they say, it takes two to tango. Normal, well adjusted people do not typically initiate life and death struggles with police officers.


The stench of propaganda has been coming from your direction for some time.  Are YOU related to the (or any) cop?  If not, and you have no dog in this hunt, then why have you repeatedly attempted to assassinate the character of the victim from every conceivable angle?  A character assassination IS propaganda.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> You have become so emotionally attached to Brown..


*I'm* emotionally attached?!  I was the one who laid back for awhile as the facts came in.  You were the one immediately running with stories from anonymous sources and stories that have now been debunked.  You even acknowledge that these stories are--in your words--"rumors"--but you still run with them.  These "rumors" keep turning out to be false, but that does not deter you.  You just keep posting anything, from anywhere.





> I have no dog in this hunt personally,


You are trying to vindicate yourself.  All of the nonsense you originally posted is now turning out to be false or is unraveling.  You have to hope that Brown is connected with some big time gang or murder, or you're afraid you'll be run out off this forum.  LOL.

----------


## AuH20

> The stench of propaganda has been coming from your direction for some time.  Are YOU related to the (or any) cop?  If not, and you have no dog in this hunt, then why have you repeatedly attempted to assassinate the character of the victim from every conceivable angle?  A character assassination IS propaganda.


I have no law enforcement relatives. In fact, I have been a victim of police abuse in the past. What I despise is race based reporting. That's what has been largely presented through the corrupt media organs. White cop kills unarmed black teen with all the usual social implications. 

Here are the facts so far. We have Brown roughing up a store clerk minutes earlier. Then we have eyewitness reports about a physical struggle ensuing between cop and Brown. Now we have unsubstantiated rumors of a juvenile criminal record which may lead to gang associations. The gentle giant persona originally presented by the media is nearly dead. The unraveling of this clever narrative is exactly why I don't trust the MSM. With that said, Wilson could have still acted irresponsibly when all is said and done.  But you had to be completely blind to be the gentle giant nonsense. Complete and utter garbage.

----------


## phill4paul

> I have no law enforcement relatives. In fact, I have been a victim of police abuse in the past. What I despise is race based reporting. That's what has been largely presented through the corrupt media organs. White cop kills unarmed black teen with all the usual social implications. 
> 
> Here are the facts so far. We have Brown roughing up a store clerk minutes earlier. Then we have eyewitness reports about a physical struggle ensuing between cop and Brown. Now we have unsubstantiated rumors of a juvenile criminal record which may lead to gang associations. The gentle giant persona originally presented by the media is nearly dead. The unraveling of this story is exactly why I don't trust the MSM.


  Here are the facts so far: An law enforcement officer killed an unarmed 18 year old.

----------


## orenbus

Officer resigns over threats at Ferguson protest
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ters/14816001/




> A veteran Missouri officer deployed to Ferguson after the police slaying of Michael Brown has resigned for pointing an assault rifle at protesters and threatening to kill them.
> 
> Lt. Ray Albers, who worked for the St. Ann Police Department for 20 years, tendered his resignation Thursday after the city's Police Board of Commissioners recommended he resign or be fired, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported.
> 
> His actions, which included swearing at bystanders who asked for his name, were captured on video late on Aug. 19, and he was later suspended.
> 
> While saying he was not condoning Albers' behavior, Chief Aaron Jiminez told the paper that Albers' raising his semiautomatic weapon was "totally justifiable." He said that protesters had thrown urine and water at Albers and that he had seen someone with a gun and heard gunfire.
> 
> Albers reacted the way he did because he got scared as the crowd appeared to close in on him, the chief explained.
> ...

----------


## orenbus

Officer fired after Facebook comment saying Ferguson protesters ‘should be put down like a rabid dog’
http://fox13now.com/2014/08/29/offic...e-a-rabid-dog/




> (CNN) — A St. Louis-area police officer has been fired after making what his chief called “very concerning and inappropriate” Facebook comments on the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, according to a city official.
> 
> “These protesters should be put down like a rabid dog the first night,” Matthew Pappert, a police officer in the city of Glendale, wrote in one post, according to CNN affiliate KMOV. There were reportedly five inappropriate posts, KMOV said.
> 
> Pappert was originally suspended on August 22 after the comments came to light. An inquiry was initiated that day.
> 
> “Officer Pappert was dismissed following the conclusion of the investigation,” Glendale City Administrator Jaysen Christensen said. “Our focus at this point is to move past this, and turn the focus back to healing in the City (sic) of Ferguson.”
> 
> Glendale, like Ferguson, is a municipality in St. Louis County. The two suburbs are about 15 miles apart.
> ...

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> The unraveling of this story is exactly why I don't trust the MSM.


You were the one actually supporting the mainstream media narrative.  They were the ones giving national air time to the anonymous woman relating her hearsay account, an account that is looking more implausible as the facts come in.  You were the one who claimed that the aftermath audio-video showed Brown--in your words--"bullrushing" Wilson.  The claims regarding that audio-video have now been shown to not exist.  You were the one talking about Wilson's injuries.  The broken face is now looking more and more implausible.  The broken eye socket story is looking more like one of the pitiful rumors that you keep posting.

Looks to me like your beliefs based on rumors is starting to unravel.

----------


## AuH20

It is very likely that Wilson could be sentenced for manslaughter AND Brown could be proved to be  violence prone gang member. Like I said, not all things are black and white in this world. Most are gray quite honestly.

----------


## invisible

> I have no law enforcement relatives. In fact, I have been a victim of police abuse in the past. What I despise is race based reporting. That's what has been largely presented through the corrupt media organs. White cop kills unarmed black teen with all the usual social implications. 
> 
> Here are the facts so far. We have Brown roughing up a store clerk minutes earlier. Then we have eyewitness reports about a physical struggle ensuing between cop and Brown. Now we have unsubstantiated rumors of a juvenile criminal record which may lead to gang associations. The gentle giant persona originally presented by the media is nearly dead. The unraveling of this clever narrative is exactly why I don't trust the MSM. With that said, Wilson could have still acted irresponsibly when all is said and done.  But you had to be completely blind to be the gentle giant nonsense. Complete and utter garbage.


None of that explains why you have worked so hard on a character assassination.  For someone who despises race based reporting, your euphemisms and innuendo are so transparent, that they are quite readily seen through.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

http://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforc...continuum.aspx




> *The Use-of-Force Continuum*
> 
>                       Most law enforcement agencies have policies that  guide their use of force. These policies describe a escalating series  of                         actions an officer may take to resolve a  situation. This continuum generally has many levels, and officers are  instructed                         to respond with a level of force appropriate to  the situation at hand, acknowledging that the officer may move from one  part                         of the continuum to another in a matter of  seconds.                      
>                       An example of a use-of-force continuum follows:
> 
> *Officer Presence  No force is used. Considered the best way to resolve a situation.*
> The mere presence of a law enforcement officer works to deter crime or diffuse a situation.Officers' attitudes are professional and nonthreatening. *Verbalization  Force is not-physical.*
> Officers issue calm, nonthreatening commands, such as "Let me see your identification and registration."Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop,"                                  or "Don't move." *Empty-Hand Control  Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation.*
> _Soft technique._ Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual._Hard technique._ Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual. *Less-Lethal Methods  Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation.
> ...

----------


## AuH20

> You were the one actually supporting the mainstream media narrative.  They were the ones giving national air time to the anonymous woman relating her hearsay account, an account that is looking more implausible as the facts come in.*  You were the one who claimed that the aftermath audio-video showed Brown--in your words--"bullrushing" Wilson.  The claims regarding that audio-video have now been shown to not exist.*  You were the one talking about Wilson's injuries.  The broken face is now looking more and more implausible.  The broken eye socket story is looking more like one of the pitiful rumors that you keep posting.
> 
> Looks to me like your beliefs based on rumors is starting to unravel.


The video has testimony that stated that Brown ran back at Wilson. It's clear as day. 




> 1 How’d he get from there to there?
> 
> #2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
> 
> {crosstalk}
> 
> #2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
> 
> {crosstalk}
> ...






Are you that obtuse? Why does Brown have to be a boyscout to you?

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> ...Brown could be proved to be  violence prone gang member.


LOL.  You hope.

If it weren't for the statutes that say dead people are not prosecuted, then I suspect people like you would argue for the next best thing.

----------


## AuH20

> None of that explains why you have worked so hard on a character assassination.  For someone who despises race based reporting, your euphemisms and innuendo are so transparent, that they are quite readily seen through.


Yes, all the DOJ's decades of crime statistics are somehow fabricated. You can't hide from the numbers. Statistics aren't racist.

----------


## invisible

> Yes, all the DOJ's decades of crime statistics are somehow fabricated. You can't hide from the numbers. Statistics aren't racist.


That doesn't answer the question either.  Care to try again?
Why have you worked so hard on a character assassination?

----------


## AuH20

> That doesn't answer the question either.  Care to try again?
> Why have you worked so hard on a character assassination?


I didn't assassinate anyone's character. I didn't rob the liquor store. It was captured on tape for the whole world to see. I am just assembling the pieces based on that particular event. Usually, pillars of society don't commit strong arm robbery. That's a logical assumption on my part.

----------


## invisible

> I didn't assassinate anyone's character. I didn't rob the liquor store. It was captured on tape for the whole world to see.


Denial is certainly one way to avoid answering an uncomfortable question.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> The video has testimony...


First of all, that is not testimony.  It's an amateur transcription done by someone who practically admitted that he has no knowledge or training in transcription.  I went over in detail the issues with this, including his transcription errors that change the meaning of what is said.





> that stated that Brown ran back at Wilson. It's clear as day.


No, it does not state that Brown "ran" back at Wilson.





> Are you that obtuse?


See my point directly above.  It's at least the third time I have pointed this out to you.

----------


## orenbus

Oh in case anyone missed the story copy/pasting it here, they are planning on going to Ferguson tomorrow as well for anyone in the area that may be interested in going. There is also supposed to be some major events happening as well this weekend in Ferguson.
#####


*After Hearing What a Tea Party Group Recently Did in Ferguson, You Likely Won’t Be Surprised That You Haven’t Heard About It*
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...n=ShareButtons



Members of St. Louis Tea Party with Dellena, owner of 911 Beauty Salon in Ferguson (Credit: Bill Hennessy/Facebook)





> The story won’t spark controversy or make many front pages, but there is some good happening in Ferguson, Missouri, in the aftermath of the unrest following the police-involved shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown.
> 
> Many local businesses in Ferguson were vandalized, looted, and even set on fire as demonstrators took to the streets to protest the shooting. Sadly, innocent business owners have been left to foot the bills. This is where the St. Louis Tea Party realized they could help.
> 
> The group spread the word of the “BUYcott” event on Facebook, hoping to get at least 20 people to show up and spend their hard-earned money at local Ferguson businesses on August 21. They apparently ended up with a group of about 40 “(mostly) white people” — and something amazing happened.
> 
> They reportedly targeted small businesses who “were hit hard by violence–violence committed (mostly) by out of town agitators, criminals, vandals, and hooligans.”
> 
> Bill Hennessy, one of the tea party members who attended the event, later wrote about his experience in Ferguson and how their presence made residents rethink their preconceived notions of the tea party:
> ...





Also KMOV has a story with video here:
http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage...272222381.html

----------


## orenbus

Looks like they are going back with a scheduled event this Saturday Aug 30 for anyone in the area that is interested.
Saturday, August 30 at 9:00am in CDT
W. Florrisant and I-270

Here is their facebook page;
https://www.facebook.com/stlouisteaparty

One of the members websites;
http://hennessysview.com/
http://hennessysview.com/2014/08/27/...lwood-weekend/






> St. Louis Tea Party Part of my haul. Some shops lost almost all their inventory, but insisted we not leave empty handed. And we had to force them to take money. God bless Dellena

----------


## orenbus

Honestly this is exactly the types of activities that Ferguson needs right now, and as an additional benefit, talk about an excellent opportunity to discuss causes where many there will agree on such as the militarization of police which not many political leaders have talked about. And also a chance to talk about some of the things Rand Paul has recently proposed in terms of making changes to the justice system that would have direct impact on the lives of some in these communities vs. just talking in platitudes. Topics that no one, except for Rand Paul and a few others are pushing legislation on, it's win-win.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> I am just assembling the pieces based on that particular event.


You are assembling pieces from rumor mongers and amateurs.  

And I'm crossing out your transcription that has made the rounds everywhere.  I've actually done transcription, which I'll bet is more than what this clown has done.  I'm hearing something totally different, but I wouldn't have the gall to post something like this without supplemental equipment.  

Like I say--it doesn't take much for people on the internet to believe just about anything.





> #2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – *but he kept coming toward him
> *

----------


## AuH20

> You are assembling pieces from rumor mongers and amateurs.  
> 
> *And I'm crossing out your transcription that has made the rounds everywhere.  I've actually done transcription, which I'll bet is more than what this clown has done.  I'm hearing something totally different, but I wouldn't have the gall to post something like this without supplemental equipment.* 
> 
> Like I say--it doesn't take much for people on the internet to believe just about anything.


35 second mark. Clear as day. Listen to it. _"The next thing I know... he's (Brown) coming back towards him."_

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> 35 second mark. Clear as day. Listen to it.



Number 1.  Your Youtube video does not match your transcription.  Which leads to...

Number 2. Your audio at 35 seconds is not what I crossed out.

Number 3 (and most important).  You keep saying in this thread that Brown "ran" at Wilson, "bullrushed" Wilson, or some variation of charging.  *This is nowhere apparent in the audio.*  The only thing that is apparent from all the eyewitness statements is that Brown reversed course at some point.  Coming back toward Wilson hardly means "bum rushing," "bullrushing," "charging," "running," or any of the other nonsense verbs thrown around all over the internet.

If you want to talk about clear as day, then note that this is the third time I have explained this to you.

----------


## orenbus

Cop dog pissed on MB memorial? Ohio Walmart shooting and NJ "Get off my gun!" side note:

----------


## orenbus

LOL thanks LibForrestPaul for the link, adding here for the record.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

So, it actually looks like the amateur transcriptionist at the website Conservative Treehouse transposed part of a phrase, which is actually part of a phrase that appears later. 

He transcribes:

"#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him."


The second guy who transcribed seems to be more accurate when he transcribes this:

"#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – (inaudible)."

The second transcriber appears to correctly place the phrase when he transcribes:

"#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus – the police had his gun drawn already on him –"


It appears to me that the Conservative Treehouse transcriber is merely filling in the gaps for words that are inaudible, or (to me) words that are altogether different.



*In other words, the Conservative Treehouse transcriber's words suggest that Brown is advancing on Wilson as Wilson is firing; however, the second transcriber's words suggest that Brown is coming back toward Wilson BECAUSE Wilson already had his gun drawn.

*
*The first transcription might appear that Brown is undeterred by gunfire, while the second transcription might appear that Brown is surrendering because Wilson had his gun on him*.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Michael Brown Memorial Fund Raises over 300k so far:


http://www.gofundme.com/justiceformikebrown

----------


## orenbus

> The relevant section is 563.046. However, the online version does note contain a note I see here in my GF's "Handbook for Law Enforcement Officers" that specifically mentions Tennessee vs Garner. 
> 
> Here is a scan of the relevant page, including the note
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_8...it?usp=sharing


So since the Missouri statue says;




> (2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested
> 
> (a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; 
> 
> ...


Without the note of Tennessee vs Garner then it basically lets the cop off the hook, as long as he can argue that Brown was suspected of committing a felony or was about to commit one.

Essentially they would make the "Point Break" argument true, that a LEO can use deadly force to effect the arrest (at least in Missouri) regardless as long as someone is suspected of having committed or about to commit a felony, which is why Keanue Reeves (Utah) character's partner was so adamant that he should have not missed, even though Patrick Swayze's (Bhodi) character didn't immediately pose a threat to endangering life or inflict serious physical injury to others or the officer. 

Edit: Then again that's probably not a good example since the Bhodi character had just posed a threat to inflicting serious physical injury by throwing a pit bull at the agent Utah, oh well here is the clip cause it popped into my head.
Edit 2: Actually on second thought the pit bull example could be considered as well since that was serious injury that was passed the point of being a current threat when Utah had to decide to fire on Bhodi, much like if the the Wilson/Brown killing happened in another state just the fact that Brown allegedly punched the officer (if it's true) wouldn't be enough. The only argument that would be valid is if he was an immediate threat therefore annonymous "Josie's" bumrush to the officer narrative would be the only valid reason to fire (if this wasn't Missouri) but because it was again it gets back to the statue that is on the books if I'm understanding this.
Edit 3: BTW before anyone starts to think I'm trying to make a connection between Ferguson and Point Break or making Brown out to be Swayze's character I'm not lol, have to put in this disclaimer just in case. The only consideration for bringing it up was honestly because it just popped in my head, but also because of the specific part in the movie when Reeves' character decides on the specific action to fire (or not in this case) on the fleeing Swayze's character, how lethal action is portrayed to be legal in this particular movie (Gary Busey's character reaction) and how it relates to the escalation of force in reality (based on unfolding events) and finally how it possibly may differ between states in the real world. All these things although right now are all speculative in the Brown/Wilson case, it is something worthwhile discussing at the very least so that if you or I or anyone we know are thrown into similar situations in the future we know where the lines are drawn.

----------


## orenbus

St. Louis County Police Officer Dan Page Retires Following Inflammatory Video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5740312.html

----------


## thoughtomator

> The video has testimony that stated that Brown ran back at Wilson. It's clear as day.


Are you still pimping that false narrative? That's not what the guy said in the recording.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> The video has testimony that stated that Brown ran back at Wilson. It's clear as day. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you that obtuse? Why does Brown have to be a boyscout to you?


I don't understand.  I have reviewed the transcript and the video several times, and I don't see how you got 'running' out of it past his initial fleeing.  "Coming back towards" does not automatically imply 'running,' particularly if he turned around to walk back into drawn pistols.  Maybe he was running maybe he wasn't, but you really can't imply either way from this video, so far as I can see.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> So, it actually looks like the amateur transcriptionist at the website Conservative Treehouse transposed part of a phrase, which is actually part of a phrase that appears later. 
> 
> He transcribes:
> 
> "#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him."
> 
> 
> The second guy who transcribed seems to be more accurate when he transcribes this:
> 
> ...


This was my impression of the transcript, yes.  That he was surrendering _because_ the police had already drawn their weapons. Au says the transcript makes it clear that he was charging the police, but I review it over and over and I just don't see it.

----------


## orenbus

At Ferguson March, Call for Labor Day Highway Protest 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/us...y-protest.html




> FERGUSON, Mo.  Activists on Saturday *called for mass civil disobedience on the highways in and around this St. Louis suburb* to protest the killing of an unarmed black teenager by a white police officer, with the leaders of one coalition encouraging supporters to stop their cars to tie up traffic on Labor Day.
> 
> The announcement came at a peaceful if at times tense march and rally on Saturday that drew more than 1,000 demonstrators to some of the same Ferguson streets where the police clashed with protesters in the days after the killing of Michael Brown. Mr. Brown, 18, was shot Aug. 9 by Officer Darren Wilson of the Ferguson Police Department, and his bloody body lay on Canfield Drive for about four and a half hours before it was removed.
> 
> Organizers at the rally on Saturday *called on demonstrators to drive on Interstate 70 and other area highways at 4:30 p.m. Monday, turn their hazard lights on and stop their vehicles for four and a half minutes to symbolize those four and a half hours that Mr. Browns body lay in the middle of the street.*
> 
> Were going to tie it down, going to lock it down, Anthony Shahid, one of the lead organizers of the rally, told supporters from the stage at a Ferguson park. I want the highways shut down. I know its a holiday, but it wont be no good holiday.
> 
> Mr. Shahids announcement was met with applause by many of the marchers, but it was unclear how many people would take part. Only a few hundred demonstrators were in the park when Mr. Shahid made the announcement. It was also unclear what the authorities planned to do in response to the civil disobedience plan.
> ...

----------


## CPUd

I think it was the same group who did it in Houston last summer:

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Officer resigns over threats at Ferguson protest
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ters/14816001/


a gypsy, you'll see.





> *While saying he was not condoning Albers' behavior, Chief Aaron Jiminez told the paper that Albers' raising his semiautomatic weapon was "totally justifiable."* He said that protesters had thrown urine and water at Albers and that he had seen someone with a gun and heard gunfire.
> 
> Albers reacted the way he did because he got scared as the crowd appeared to close in on him, the chief explained.
> 
> Nonetheless, Jiminez said, "*I'm not condoning his behavior whatsoever. It's very hard because he is a good friend, he was a good boss.* Altogether it's going to be a black eye on the city of St. Ann because he represented our department."




^^^^^^

----------


## sparebulb

> 







Cyrus?

----------


## orenbus

> 


He wasn't a traffic cop, he had lieutenant grade rank and pay, the captain and chief are probably thinking how is this going to reflect on our decision to promote him or in general just keep him around? They had to make some sort of defense argument in case it comes back to bite them later, after all you would think a lieutenant would be able to deal with the situation better than the sergeant who came up next to him and suggested he lower his weapon.

----------


## orenbus

Still going through this story while making dinner so haven't gotten all the details or watched entire video yet, but in case anyone is curious.

EXCLUSIVE: St. Louis Police Officer Blows the Whistle on Rampant Corruption Within the Department
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/sus...on-department/

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## ronpaulhawaii

New witnesses being reported on which seem to give a clearer picture. Construction workers from another county.




> ...
> Almost all of the witnesses who shared these accounts with media  either knew Brown; lived at or near the Canfield Green apartments, where  the shooting occurred; or were visiting friends or relatives there.
> 
> But  there were two outsiders who happened to be working outside at the  apartment complex on Aug. 9 — two men from a company in Jefferson County  — who heard a single gunshot, looked up from their work and witnessed  the shooting.
> 
> Both have given their statements to the St. Louis  County police and the FBI. One of the men agreed to share his account  with a Post-Dispatch reporter on the condition that his name and  employer not be used.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...cee622c29.html

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## ronpaulhawaii

Also in Ferguson tonight...

The Blood of Children Spilled On Our Streets Challenge

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwd7...lUTEFadE0/edit

----------


## COpatriot

> I think it was the same group who did it in Houston last summer:


Morons.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> New witnesses being reported on which seem to give a clearer picture. Construction workers from another county.
> 
> 
> http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...cee622c29.html




Someone on this thread is not going to like that.....

----------


## SeanTX

> Morons.


Yes -- better to write strongly worded letters of discontent. And vote. That will change things ...

----------


## Cap

> Almost all of the witnesses who shared these accounts with media  either knew Brown; lived at or near the Canfield Green apartments, where  the shooting occurred; or were visiting friends or relatives there.
> 
> But  there were two outsiders who happened to be working outside at the  apartment complex on Aug. 9  two men from a company in Jefferson County   who heard a single gunshot, looked up from their work and witnessed  the shooting.
> 
> Both have given their statements to the St. Louis  County police and the FBI. One of the men agreed to share his account  with a Post-Dispatch reporter on the condition that his name and  employer not be used.
> 
> ...
> 
> His account largely matches those who reported that Wilson chased Brown  on foot away from the car after the initial gunshot and fired at least  one more shot in the direction of Brown as he was fleeing; that Brown  stopped, turned around and put his hands up; and that the officer killed  Brown in a barrage of gunfire.
> ...


The following link is a video showing what are believed to be the 2 workers mentioned from the Post Dispatch article. Both are white with one expressing apparent frustration over how Michael was shot with his hands up. HT Leon Beard.


http://instagram.com/p/riPFZ8oeQy/

If anyone knows how to embed this I would appreciate it.

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## orenbus



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## orenbus



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## jmdrake

> New witnesses being reported on which seem to give a clearer picture. Construction workers from another county.
> 
> 
> http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...cee622c29.html


That link didn't work for me.  This one did.

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/08/two-je...rown-shooting/

There's video as well.  You can't see the face of the construction worker, but he sounds white.  I know, I know, I should be "color blind" and all that crap, but race and class all over this story.  The fact that someone who's not a black welfare recipient is backing up the narrative that Brown had his hands up when he was shot is very significant.

----------


## moostraks

> That link didn't work for me.  This one did.
> 
> http://fox2now.com/2014/09/08/two-je...rown-shooting/
> 
> There's video as well.  You can't see the face of the construction worker, but he sounds white.  I know, I know, I should be "color blind" and all that crap, but race and class all over this story.  The fact that someone who's not a black welfare recipient is backing up the narrative that Brown had his hands up when he was shot is very significant.


Separate thread here but:



> Also as a side note although it really shouldn't matter, I know to some out there it does, the contract worker witnesses just interviewed are White and don't live in Ferguson.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ene-(Ferguson)

HTH...

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## orenbus



----------


## Cap

Thanks for posting the video orenbus. This should lay to rest the agenda of the scum that are trying to muddy the waters with false claims and 1/2 truths that Brown was bull rushing the Gestapo agent. To top it off, in the video, one of the witnesses even went on to describe a come to Jesus moment with one of the men and Brown digging trenches prior to Brown being killed. The shooting of Mike Brown was no more than a execution of a man trying to give himself up, by an agent of the corrupt state. Those that were spreading lies on this thread...shame the $#@! out of you.

----------


## donnay

????

Hmm...

----------


## FindLiberty

As more and more details come to light, IMO it becomes clearer
that post-store-theft adrenaline probably fueled/triggered the
 initial verbal then physical altercation between the two men.
A huge mistake in professional judgment was made within that
 two second pause before the final series of gunshots resulting
in Brown's death (murdered for earlier physical contact with cop).

+++

Facing police while looking up with sad puppy dog eyes has
been known to cause the officer's gun to suddenly discharge,
_execution style_.

Instead of raising up his hands and turning around to surrender
 while saying, "_OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK_", maybe it would
 have been more effective to have faced away, kneeling with
raised hands while saying, _"Please don't shoot me. OK, OK
 I give up. Please don't execute me! I surrender..."_

or, just try to keep running, faster than those speeding bullets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2hJezvd2I

----------


## FindLiberty

> ... Hmm...


THANKS Donnay [Regarding that PROOF VIDEO You tube]

Wow, I do agree that it seems MOST of the post-shooting events
are planned/staged/orchestrated and are not "natural" reactions.

Smells like a SLOW overcooked, pre-planned agenda that's been
brewing for decades.  It stinks.

----------


## CPUd

> ????
> 
> Hmm...


This video should be in its own thread.

In Hot Topics.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> As more and more details come to light, IMO it becomes clearer
> that post-store-theft adrenaline probably fueled/triggered the
>  initial verbal then physical altercation between the two men.
> A huge mistake in professional judgment was made within that
>  two second pause before the final series of gunshots resulting
> in Brown's death (murdered for earlier physical contact with cop).
> 
> +++
> 
> ...



nope. contempt of cop was the catalyst for the execution.

----------


## SeanTX

They're still getting uppity ...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3DZt83R87




> Ferguson government meeting marked by angry protests — again
> Ferguson protesters chant "Arrest Darren Wilson!" during at a meeting of the St. Louis County Council on Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2014 in Clayton.
> By Cheryl K. Chumley - The Washington Times - Wednesday, September 17, 2014
> 
> *Angry protesters disrupted a local government gathering of Ferguson authorities*, shouting for justice for fatally shot 18-year-old Michael Brown — the second time St. Louis residents have staged such an outburst at an official meeting in a week’s time.
> 
> Protesters erupted at Ferguson City Council’s first meeting since Brown’s death just a week ago, But the same tone took over Tuesday’s meeting of St. Louis County Council members, with crowd members banding together and shouting, “For all — justice for all,” and emphasizing the “for all,” CBS News reported.
> 
> “It’s no more business as usual,” said one activist
> ...

----------


## orenbus

St. Louis County chief defends militarization of police
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...tion/15736907/




> CHICAGO - St. Louis County's top police officer said on Tuesday that the heavy-armored trucks and some of the military-style equipment used by police in last month's unrest in Ferguson helped keep civilians and law enforcement officers safe.
> 
> ....

----------


## orenbus

Grand jury considering Ferguson shooting *gets more time*, could consider case until *January*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...until-january/

----------


## orenbus

> They're still getting uppity ...
> 
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz3DZt83R87

----------


## CPUd

> *Ferguson officer appears before grand jury on shooting of Michael Brown*
> 
> CLAYTON • Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson testified here for almost four hours Tuesday in front of the St. Louis County grand jury investigating his shooting Aug. 9 of Michael Brown, a source with knowledge of the investigation said Wednesday.
> 
> Wilson was not obligated to appear, and also has spoken with St. Louis County investigators twice and federal investigators once, the source said. The source said Wilson was “cooperative.”
> 
> A spokesman for Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch’s office, Ed Magee, refused to comment Wednesday on who had testified.
> 
> The shooting of Brown, 18, who was black and unarmed, by Wilson, who is white, gave rise to racially charged protests and looting. Some activists have threatened more of the same if the grand jury does not indict Wilson.
> ...


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...77f1e9208.html

----------


## squarepusher

> Grand jury considering Ferguson shooting *gets more time*, could consider case until *January*
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...until-january/


strategy: let emotions die down, then do whatever miscarriage of justice you wish as hopefully people will have forgotten

----------


## Anti Federalist

> CHICAGO - St. Louis County's top police officer said on Tuesday that the heavy-armored trucks and some of the military-style equipment used by police in last month's unrest in Ferguson helped keep civilians and law enforcement officers safe.


Cops *are* civilians.

----------


## sparebulb

Looks like they are going to run the clock out.  I've never seen a riot in the middle of winter.  The predicted colder than average winter will eliminate the possibility of rioting until spring.  By then, March Madness might prove to be more riot-worthy.

----------


## orenbus

Tensions mount in Ferguson again after Michael Brown memorial burned
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tensions...morial-burned/

----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus



----------


## orenbus

Random Gun Shots.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> 


I've been away from the story for awhile.  That's a nice update.

The lice were wearing bracelets reading, "I am Darren Wilson" while covering up their own names.  Sickos.



Next weekend's protests:  A weekend of resistance: October 10-13

http://fergusonoctober.com/

----------


## TheTexan

Way to stand by your brother in arms, soldier!  I, also, am Darren Wilson!

----------


## orenbus

> Just after intermission, about 50 people disrupted the St. Louis Symphony’s performance of Brahms Requiem on Saturday night, singing “Justice for Mike Brown.”
> As symphony conductor Markus Stenz stepped to the podium to begin the second act of German Requiem, one middle-aged African-American man stood up in the middle of the theater and sang, “Which side are you on friend, which side are you on?”
> The song "Which Side Are You On", was written by Florence Reece during the bitter labor struggles of Harlan County, Kentucky, and taken up by the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s.
> In an operatic voice, another woman located a few rows away stood up and joined him singing, “Justice for Mike Brown is justice for us all.” Several more audience members sprinkled throughout the theater and in the balcony rose up and joined in the singing.
> Those in the balcony lowered white banners about 15 feet long with black spray-painted letters that said, “ Requiem for Mike Brown 1996-2014” and “Racism lives here,” with an arrow pointed to a picture of the St. Louis Arch. Another banner said, “Rise up and join the movement.”
> Stenz stood stoically and listened to the demonstrators’ performance. Some onlookers were outraged and start spewing expletives. Others stood up and started clapping. Most seemed stunned and simply watched.
> The singing only went on for about two minutes before the demonstrators started chanting, “Black lives matter.” They pulled up their banners and dropped red paper hearts over the edge of the balcony onto the main floor orchestra seats, which stated “Requiem for Mike Brown.” Then they all voluntarily marched out together and left the theater. While they marched out, they received a round of applause from many of the audience members – as well as the musicians on stage.
> Outside, symphony administrators huddled together discussing the demonstration, expressing dismay. When asked if they wanted to comment, they said no. The demonstrators had purchased tickets to the concert.
> The St. Louis American tracked down and interviewed the organizer of the event – Sarah Griesbach, 42, a white woman who lives in the Central West End. She said that the death of Michael Brown, an unarmed teen who was shot and killed by a police officer in Ferguson, has opened her eyes to the inequalities that exist in St. Louis. She has been protesting since Brown was shot on Aug. 9.
> ...

----------


## phill4paul

> 


  Absolutely love it! They would get a standing applause from me.

----------


## orenbus



----------


## ronpaulhawaii

An interview with the organizers of the Symphony Disruption.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1...ge-and-support




> Adam McCrane, vice president of the St. Louis Symphony said:
> 
> "That was some real music we heard from passionate people in the audience." - @adamcrane of @slso on #Ferguson -> http://t.co/...
> _ @chriskingstl_ 
>  Melissa Brooks, one of the musicians in the symphony, tweeted her support as well:
> I was playing & this was amazing. Totally inspiring! http://t.co/... #ferguson
> _ @1740testore_

----------


## JK/SEA

We need some Don't Tread On Me Flags in Ferguson.

----------


## navy-vet

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...s-teen-n221811
Sandwiches can be deadly.

----------


## orenbus

Just in case things spark up again.

http://smokeegyrl.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/streamers/

----------


## AuH20

Into the white neighborhoods they go, being the good useful idiots that they aspire to be...

http://www.infowars.com/angry-protes...fficers-death/

----------


## CPUd



----------


## AuH20

> Perhaps many of these bully and killer cops are damaged goods that have returned from fighting the Oil Wars.


American society is incredibly damaged as well. It's a toxic combination. Criminals and cops. I don't think anyone wins with this.

----------


## navy-vet

> Perhaps many of these bully and killer cops are damaged goods that have returned from fighting the Oil Wars.


Oil and opium wars....

----------


## orenbus



----------


## phill4paul

Did the police shoot another in Ferguson?




> A Florissant, Missouri woman was shot in the head while she was leaving a rally in Ferguson supporting the family of slain teen Michael Brown.
> 
> According to the Riverfront Times, *the bullet that doctors removed from Mya Aaten-White’s head in August has vanished* and police claim she was gunned down by unknown assailants in a drive-by shooting.
> 
> On the night of August 12, Aaten-White says she was leaving an event in Ferguson in support of Michael Brown and remembers a group of people walking in front of her, then everyone diving for the ground as shots rang out.
> 
> 
> When she sat up, she knew something was wrong.
> 
> ...


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/f...-into-my-head/

----------


## navy-vet

> Did the police shoot another in Ferguson?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/f...-into-my-head/

----------


## orenbus

Bump for those that haven't had a chance to review the Ferguson witness testimony and other related information collected in this thread in regards to the case and events that followed. Grand Jury announcement as to whether Darren Wilson will be indicted will most likely come out today or sometime this week.

Following are some of the eye witness accounts of the event and other relevant linked in this thread in case anyone is looking for them;

Mike Brown shooting witness Michael Brady interviewed by Anderson Cooper Aug 20 2014 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYqrAhpo_w4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d0UC2aefRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2nWxMUX05k

Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell eye witness accounts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es9hz1vlF6E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=advkpZIuq2U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbyNLVgvh9o

Two workers that were laying down pipe at the time. (for what it's worth both were white and not from the neighborhood)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sblJdLcgXfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P68nUi6eTMI

Audio recording of the shots fired in the background (was taken during a video conversation between a man and a woman)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA8mRPxtQHA

Ron Paul on Ferguson 8/25/2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkX-I482B_A

----------


## orenbus



----------


## CPUd

from the other thread:



> *FULL GRAND JURY REPORT
> 
> TRANSCRIPT
> *
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/n...P=share_btn_tw

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> from the other thread:





> As he has throughout, Obama refused to comment on the specifics of the case, saying all Americans should recognise the decision not to indict Darren Wilson.
> 
> “We are a nation based on the rule of law so we need to accept that this was the special jury’s decision to make,” he said.



...

----------


## enhanced_deficit

*Justice Dept. Will Reportedly Clear Ferguson Police Officer In Brown Case*


                       January 21, 2015 5:17 PM ET    

                            Demonstrators remember Michael Brown on Martin Luther King  Jr. Day, marching from the apartment complex where Brown was killed to  the Ferguson police station. A federal inquiry has found no evidence  that officer Darren Wilson violated Brown's civil rights, sources tell  NPR.                                                

                            Scott Olson/Getty Images               

    The Justice Department is poised to declare that former police  officer Darren Wilson should not face civil rights charges over the  death of Michael Brown, law enforcement sources tell NPR. Wilson, who is  white, shot and killed Brown, who was black, in August. Brown was not  armed.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-in-brown-case

----------

