# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  RLC straw poll results?

## RileyE104

Does anyone know when the results will be read on CSPAN?

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## trey4sports

I thought i heard 1:30 but i dont know if thats right.

EDIT: "The Republican Leadership Conference 2011 straw poll ballot has been released. The voting takes place Friday from 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and also Saturday from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. There are over 2000 delegates from 38 states who will be participating in the straw poll. *The results will be posted to www.RLC2011.com Saturday afternoon at 2:30 p.m.*"

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## sailingaway

That would be central time, I presume....

I'm a bit nervous.  In a way there is only downside here, we didn't even know there would be a straw poll until recently and had a lot of other stuff going on.  Yet if Ron doesn't win now that he has a reputation for straw polls they will try to spin it, and if he does win they will say it doesn't count.

All the same, we could use the media for a win.

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## Paul Or Nothing II

> That would be central time, I presume....
> 
> I'm a bit nervous.  In a way there is only downside here, we didn't even know there would be a straw poll until recently and had a lot of other stuff going on.  Yet if Ron doesn't win now that he has a reputation for straw polls they will try to spin it, and if he does win they will say it doesn't count.
> 
> All the same, we could use the media for a win.


Yup, I fear that too. If Ron doesn't win then I bet they won't waste the opportunity to discredit his candidacy.

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## Paulatized

I was there yesterday for the speech and to vote.  I was really surprised at the number of RP supporters in attendance.  Especially after there was not a big, early push for attendance on the forum.  It seemed like it was a spontaneous appearing of  RP's supporters.  Many more at the meet and greet afterward than last year.  It seemed like more families too.  Good many people pushing baby strollers. They had to bring in more chairs before RP spoke.  The room was packed out, hardly standing room. I don't know if he will come out on the top but at the very least he will have a very good showing. (As a side note, as soon as you registered, you were escorted to the room to vote in the strawpoll.)

His supporters may have just been more visible though because of the free RP 2012 signs that were being given away at his 2012 booth.  They were EVERYWHERE you looked.

The only other presidential candidate I saw speak was Cain, and he seemed to have a good number of supporters attending too.

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## No Free Beer

i heard its at 3pm et

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## mit26chell

I read that they had to bring in many more rows of chairs before Paul spoke, and still, Paul supporters filled the room to standing room only. This year will probably be Paul vs Cain for 1st place.

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## nc4rp

there is a live feed 

http://cspan.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/

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## RileyE104

> I read that they had to bring in many more rows of chairs before Paul spoke, and still, Paul supporters filled the room to standing room only. This year will probably be Paul vs Cain for 1st place.


IDK, I think voting will get split between Cain and Bachmann.

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## QueenB4Liberty

I'm nervous too!

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## sailingaway

> IDK, I think voting will get split between Cain and Bachmann.


I do think it is possible she knew about the straw poll before the rest, she was featured as headliner with her picture on top, long before she announced she was running (although that has kinda been apparent for a while.)  And Cain has a history of organizing for straw polls, although for whatever reason no one calls him out for it.

Well, at this point is is what it is.  I'm glad it seems like there was a lot of support, though!

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## Bryan

I just saw them box up the ballots about 10 minutes ago. Should be 2 or 2:30 central

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## stefank

Coming Up: Straw Poll Results

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## Thomas

anxiously waiting

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## Sweman

Come on...

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## RecoveringNeoCon

Go West! Go Rubio! Wooooooooo!! lol

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## afwjam

predictions? 

I think its gonna be 
Paul
bachmann
cain

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## RecoveringNeoCon

Hopefully Paul gets 1st or 2nd. Come on......

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## go_carolina_528

Paul wins, Huntsman 2nd, Bachmann 3rd, Cain 4th and Romney in 5th!

https://twitter.com/#!/foxdavebriggs...63527460204544
"Rep. Ron #Paul wins SRLC Straw Poll (612), surprise 2nd #Huntsman (382), followed by #Bachman 3rd, #Cain 4th & real shocker #Romney 5th!"

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## RecoveringNeoCon

Yes!! ^^

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## go_carolina_528

Here's another link: http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/i...n-instructive/

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## Agorism

Romney in second would be best outcome as that would be Paul beating the establishment candidate rather than another outsider.

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## Agorism

drudge bomb?

Why did Huntsman do so well?

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## rp08orbust

Huge improvement in vote total over last year!!!

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## hazek

God I shudder when I listen to this neocon nationalist speaking on CSPAN right now..

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## RecoveringNeoCon

> God I shudder when I listen to this neocon nationalist speaking on CSPAN right now..


Yea, I know.

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## afwjam

He is horrible.

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## Agorism

We got about the same as last year no?

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## king_nothing_

> God I shudder when I listen to this neocon nationalist speaking on CSPAN right now..


Same.  This guy is awful.  I keep flipping the channel back and forth because I can't stand listening to or looking at him, but I also don't want to miss when they announce the results.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> Here's another link: http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/i...n-instructive/



Paul 612
Huntsman 382
Bachmann 191
Cain 104
Romney 74
Gingrich 69
Palin 41
Santorum 30
Pawlenty 18
Johnson 10
Roemer 9
McCotter 2

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## rp08orbust

> We got about the same as last year no?


Ron Paul only got 438 votes last year at a better attended conference.

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## RecoveringNeoCon

He is for auditing the federal reserve lol

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## hazek

I get even more horrified of how many people cheer him on

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## rockandrollsouls

Why are you guys so excited about winning the straw poll? We won it in a room full of, mostly, our own supporters. It didn't win us any new voters or support....

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## Ranger29860

Who is this guy?

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## Paul Or Nothing II

Well well another straw poll bites the dust against the rampaging river of liberty 




> Romney in second would be best outcome as that would be Paul beating the establishment candidate rather than another outsider.


Yup, true but they'll probably discredit this one too since Romney who's leading everywhere has only 74 votes while Huntsman has 382 but I guess we've gotten used to that kind of treatment by now.

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## RecoveringNeoCon

> Who is this guy?


He is running for Senate in Florida

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## rp08orbust

> Why are you guys so excited about winning the straw poll? We won it in a room full of, mostly, our own supporters. It didn't win us any new voters or support....


Republican Leadership Conference = Room full of Ron Paul supporters = Win

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## rockandrollsouls

Not really. It doesn't change the fact we're polling around 7% in early primary states.




> Republican Leadership Conference = Room full of Ron Paul supporters = Win

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## Paulatized

Hope there is a lot of RP supporters left in the room when they announce it.

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## Revolution_Ready

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!

RON WINS!!!!!

Whats up with all the boos?

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## hazek

I hear almost only booing yet again. So sad.

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## Bryan

Ron wins.

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## R3volutionJedi

I hated how they zoomed in on the crazy lady rp supporter. lol. and his face.

rp 2012

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## afwjam

haha they are so pissed.

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## rp08orbust

> Not really. It doesn't change the fact we're polling around 7% in early primary states.


But if John Huntsman had won, it might have changed that fact that he is polling at or below 3% in early primary states.  We deprived other candidates the chance of getting a boost from this straw poll.

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## Brandon Todd Carr

> Why are you guys so excited about winning the straw poll? We won it in a room full of, mostly, our own supporters. It didn't win us any new voters or support....


Because imagine if we lost, lol.

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## king_nothing_

"Note to self, never follow a straw poll."

What a $#@!ing douchebag.  The RP supporters should have erupted with boos right there.

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## sailingaway

> Republican Leadership Conference = Room full of Ron Paul supporters = Win


I think Ron won support, looking at the changing expressions of the audience at the end of the speech.  I think we would have won more if no one had bood another speaker.  People resented that.

But the reason I am happy about this is we had so little time to prepare, and didn't really do it nationally at all, it was local, and means Ron's support is in place.  At this point there isn't much upside to winning because they spin that Ron just 'organizes' around these ignoring that everyone who does well organizes.  On the other hand if he had lost, with this and MB getting aclaim for apparently a good speech at another forum today where Ron isn't at, all the headlines and momentum would be seeming to the uninitiated to be going her way.  We need Ron in the headline cycle too.  Bachmann picked her timing very well.  She got a surge from the debate which she earned, but she also had all these high profile appearances in a row during her honeymoon period they each had gotten when they first announced.  (Ron didn't get it really, because people THINK they know him.  Personally I think we need a youtube campaign along the lines of 'take a second look'.) 

Anyhow, if he hadn't won it would have looked bad, and since he did win it keeps his momentum forward although MB is soaring through her peaks right now.

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## Agorism

670 votes or whatever is almost as many as all the other combined.

IDK how they can make more noise than the Paul people with those numbers.

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## sailingaway

> I hear almost only booing yet again. So sad.


Unfortunately, our own guys' behavior 'united' many against Ron.  We really have to get the word to our people about that, but I don't know how.

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## TruePatriotFreedomLover

Drudge bomb!!! httx://drudgereport.com/ Scroll to bottom right- NEWS tips:

Ron Paul wins Republican Leadership Conference 
http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/i...n-instructive/

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## Agorism

Everyone needs to drudge bomb.

If we do we'll get the main headline. he's nice to us.

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## sailingaway

> 670 votes or whatever is almost as many as all the other combined.
> 
> IDK how they can make more noise than the Paul people with those numbers.


I'm pretty sure our guys left mostly after Ron's speech.

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## parocks

Right.  Deprived.  It's a bonus if the media wants to point out that we crushed it.




> But if John Huntsman had won, it might have changed that fact that he is polling at or below 3% in early primary states.  We deprived other candidates the chance of getting a boost from this straw poll.

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## sailingaway

> Drudge bomb!!! httx://drudgereport.com/ Scroll to bottom right- NEWS tips:
> 
> Ron Paul wins Republican Leadership Conference 
> http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/i...n-instructive/


*DON'T use that one, look at the language at the top* "interesting not binding or even instructive', talk about dismissing it!

Just drudge bomb that Ron won and look for a better headline.

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## rockandrollsouls

We didn't win. We walked away having made more enemies.

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## rp08orbust

Paul	39.69%
Huntsman	24.77%
Bachmann	12.39%
Cain	6.74%
Romney	4.80%
Gingrich	4.47%
Palin	2.66%
Santorum	1.95%
Pawlenty	1.17%
Johnson	0.65%
Roemer	0.58%
McCotter	0.13%

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## BUSHLIED

Ron Paul wins with 612 votes, Huntsman 382, Bachman 191.

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## king_nothing_

Has FOX, CNN, etc. covered this yet?

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## PaulConventionWV

> Why are you guys so excited about winning the straw poll? We won it in a room full of, mostly, our own supporters. It didn't win us any new voters or support....


Why are you such a negative nancy?

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## rp08orbust

> *DON'T use that one, look at the language at the top* "interesting not binding or even instructive', talk about dismissing it!
> 
> Just drudge bomb that Ron won and look for a better headline.


With 40%.

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## BUSHLIED

> We didn't win. We walked away having made more enemies.


How's that?

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## TruePatriotFreedomLover

rockandrollsoulds way to be a buzzkill.  It's not just RP supporters who were booing, I watched many others who were booing and whatnot.. 
RP won and by a landslide, this is positive news please don't be a downer

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## mpdsapuser

Anyone who dislikes Ron Paul now because of winning the Straw Poll already disliked him and preferred their failure candidates. Not a big deal. Just because some uptight old folks are mad doesn't matter. 

What is telling is that the person who runs this conference said the winner of this event would be an indication of who the GOP and the donors would be supporting. Then he says "this is why you dont follow straw poll" results... These people are hypocrites.

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## parocks

> drudge bomb?
> 
> Why did Huntsman do so well?


Huntsman, like Romney, is a Liberal Mormon.  Romney did not participate in this one.  His people had already gotten their tickets, or the Romney people had purchased the tickets.  So, the Huntsman people are Romney people.

Romney plus Huntsman is still less than Paul.

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## Paulatized

If you want to be a downer, please come back a little later while we enjoy this win.  This was pretty much a spontaneous win.  Very little promotion from the official campaign or the forums.  It shows RP has a following that is not dependent on the forums, it real and its out there and it's growing!

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## BUSHLIED

Romney is trying to avoid any bad press...he wants to skate right to the NH primary without dealing with anything...Paul must come out and criticize Romney's healthcare credentials etc...we have him on the ropes.

This is a positive development for Paul BUT I hope it doesn't give the campaign false confidence. Paul has got to work on his speeches!

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## emr1028

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...fades-to-fifth

msnbc coverage

Remember what Ron said yesterday people-- no long faces. Even articles dismissing our wins will still force people to acknowledge that we're making them. Cherish our progress.

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## reduen

> We didn't win. We walked away having made more enemies.


Originally Posted by rockandrollsouls

"Why are you guys so excited about winning the straw poll? We won it in a room full of, mostly, our own supporters. It didn't win us any new voters or support...."

I am confused.... Which one is it...?

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## Paulatized

> What is telling is that the person who runs this conference said the winner of this event would be an indication of who the GOP and the donors would be supporting. Then he says "this is why you dont follow straw poll" results... These people are hypocrites


I think he meant that it was a hard act to follow on stage not that he didnt follow straw polls.  I ran it back and listened again to be sure.

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## king_nothing_

> What is telling is that the person who runs this conference said the winner of this event would be an indication of who the GOP and the donors would be supporting. Then he says "this is why you dont follow straw poll" results... These people are hypocrites.


Was that the guy who runs it?

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## parocks

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...66-503544.html
Ron Paul wins Republican Leadership Conf. straw poll; Jon Huntsman second

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## Maximus

I see Thadeus McCotter and his mom attended the straw poll.

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## king_nothing_

> I think he meant that it was a hard act to follow on stage not that he didnt follow straw polls.


Hmm.  I took it as a shot at RP.  You may be right, though.  I'm not sure.

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## Freedomluvinmamma30

I swear the best enemies RP has is his own supporters. Being Positive is the key. Any victory is fine with me. Hell, it is a victory that the own establishment is discounting its own polls and calling its voters quacks. I know from my experience there is a lot more supporters out of the mainstream coming RP way. I am in this to win it with RP and that is the attitude all supporters should have. Having worked on other campaigns (Ugh Bush I would like forgiveness for that one) it was an up beat go hard or go home campaign and any negative was spun into a positive. SO cheer up no one said this was going to be easy.

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## emr1028

Here's some inspiration for those of you with long faces. The press that this poll gets us is far more important than the reactions of some old ladies in the room. YES WE CAN.

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## mpdsapuser

I have no doubt the usual suspects will marginalize this victory as non-important and will continue beating the drums for Romney or Bachmann. Even though had Romney won this, the Bill O'Reillys of the world would've gloated.

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## Patrick Henry

> It shows RP has a following that is not dependent on the forums, it real and its out there and it's growing!


"He's catching on, I'm tellin' ya"

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## Paulatized

> Hmm.  I took it as a shot at RP.  You may be right, though.  I'm not sure.


I ran it back because at first I thought the same thing.  But he just meant that coming out after the strawpoll announcement was a hard act to follow.

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## parocks

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...fades-to-fifth
Paul wins RLC straw poll; Romney fades to fifth

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## king_nothing_

CNN just covered it, here's what the guy said they interviewed at the conference (paraphrased):

"_Ron Paul won...he always does well at these straw polls.  But the big news is Jon Huntsman, who came in second...blah blah Jon Huntsman, Michelle Bachmann..._"

Not surprising.

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## garyallen59

> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...66-503544.html
> Ron Paul wins Republican Leadership Conf. straw poll; Jon Huntsman second


that article is ridiculous but typical from msm. dismisses paul win and says victory for huntsman.

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## parocks

RPSAA

"Ron Paul Supporters Are Annoying"

We should try to minimize the RPSAA factor, which we've known about for close to 4 years now.





> I swear the best enemies RP has is his own supporters. Being Positive is the key. Any victory is fine with me. Hell, it is a victory that the own establishment is discounting its own polls and calling its voters quacks. I know from my experience there is a lot more supporters out of the mainstream coming RP way. I am in this to win it with RP and that is the attitude all supporters should have. Having worked on other campaigns (Ugh Bush I would like forgiveness for that one) it was an up beat go hard or go home campaign and any negative was spun into a positive. SO cheer up no one said this was going to be easy.

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## parocks

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75H1YX20110618

Ron Paul wins 2012 Republican straw poll in New Orleans

I think I like this one the best of the articles I've seen.

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## tpreitzel

rockandrollsouls is correct in one aspect. These straw polls, etc. which  can be readily manipulated by supporters need to translate into  equivalent percentages of professionally conducted polls. Poll numbers are higher than 2008 and hopefully Ron will improve his performances in debates, etc.

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## Agorism

If we lost, they would say he's a fringe candidate with no support and build up Bachmann or whoever as grassroots monster candidate.

If we win, they complain that it annoys them or that his supporters bother them or whatever.

But we still won. Winning is winning.

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## JWZguy

> RPSAA
> 
> "Ron Paul Supporters Are Annoying"
> 
> We should try to minimize the RPSAA factor, which we've known about for close to 4 years now.


I was at the straw poll. I heard a lot of rude comments from non-RP supporters. Not one rude comment from RP people. People who hate freedom are annoyed, oh well, you can't please everyone.

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## Bruno

Awesome work! Drudgebomb this!

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## parocks

If someone other than Ron Paul had won, It'd be a big story.  Since it's Ron Paul, it's not.  But no big story for anyone else.  Victory.






> If we lost, they would say he's a fringe candidate with no support and build up Bachmann or whoever as grassroots monster candidate.
> 
> If we win, they complain that it annoys them or that his supporters bother them or whatever.
> 
> But we still won. Winning is winning.

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## FSP-Rebel

> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75H1YX20110618
> 
> Ron Paul wins 2012 Republican straw poll in New Orleans
> 
> I think I like this one the best of the articles I've seen.


Yeah, this one should be Drudged.

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## flightlesskiwi

> If we lost, they would say he's a fringe candidate with no support and build up Bachmann or whoever as grassroots monster candidate.
> 
> If we win, they complain that it annoys them or that his supporters bother them or whatever.
> 
> But we still won. Winning is winning.


i'm out of rep, but well said!!!

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## Patrick Henry

> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75H1YX20110618
> 
> Ron Paul wins 2012 Republican straw poll in New Orleans
> 
> I think I like this one the best of the articles I've seen.


Of course they have to start it off like this:

"Paul, who brought busloads of supporters"

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## king_nothing_

> If someone other than Ron Paul had won, It'd be a big story.  Since it's Ron Paul, it's not.  But no big story for anyone else.  Victory.


They don't even need someone else to win to claim it's a big deal for another candidate.  Read my last post.

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## rockandrollsouls

You guys celebrate every straw poll we spam as a win. It hasn't done anything for us nationally since 2008 and we always piss off the core of the party in the process. Like them or not, we need to be on good terms with those that hijacked the GOP.

_So let's see....we'll still be polling in single digits....the rude supporters that did attend turned off a huge potential base....Ron's speech itself was polarizing....and we managed to piss of the party again by sending a boat-load of our own guys to crash the scene.
_

A buzzkill? I'm calling it how I see it. And you all wonder why we're so disliked. We basically use mob-tactics at any event we attend and make a poor name for this campaign. I'm willing to bet we'd gain more support if things were handled differently.




> Originally Posted by rockandrollsouls
> 
> "Why are you guys so excited about winning the straw poll? We won it in a room full of, mostly, our own supporters. It didn't win us any new voters or support...."
> 
> I am confused.... Which one is it...?

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## rockandrollsouls

Well it's true. We always smash the straw polls with no measurable affect in any relevant poll numbers, and Jon Huntsman coming in second is huge news as well. How is that spun?




> CNN just covered it, here's what the guy said they interviewed at the conference (paraphrased):
> 
> "_Ron Paul won...he always does well at these straw polls.  But the big news is Jon Huntsman, who came in second...blah blah Jon Huntsman, Michelle Bachmann..._"
> 
> Not surprising.

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## Agorism

Who cares what the trolls think. 



By winning all grass roots events we close the door on the fake grass roots candidates like bachmann, and we get a good win in for ourselves.

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## parocks

It's not huge news that Romney bought tickets before he said that he wasn't participating in any straw polls anymore.

Mormons stick together.

It's a bit of a surprise, but Huntsmans good showing plus Romneys poor showing clearly equals the Mormons who were already planning on going
switching to Huntsman, with the approval of the Romney campaign. 

If you're informed, at all, you see those numbers, and you know exactly what happened, the second you see it.

Last year - Romney won this.

This year - Romney plus Huntsman lost to Ron Paul.

We beat the Liberal Mormons this year.




> Well it's true. We always smash the straw polls with no measurable affect in any relevant poll numbers, and Jon Huntsman coming in second is huge news as well. How is that spun?

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## FSP-Rebel

> You guys celebrate every straw poll we spam as a win. It hasn't done anything for us nationally since 2008 and we always piss off the core of the party in the process. Like them or not, we need to be on good terms with those that hijacked the GOP.
> 
> _So let's see....we'll still be polling in single digits....the rude supporters that did attend turned off a huge potential base....Ron's speech itself was polarizing....and we managed to piss of the party again by sending a boat-load of our own guys to crash the scene.
> _
> 
> A buzzkill? I'm calling it how I see it. And you all wonder why we're so disliked. We basically use mob-tactics at any event we attend and make a poor name for this campaign. I'm willing to bet we'd gain more support if things were handled differently.


What Paul supporter wouldn't celebrate a win at a straw poll that garners news coverage for us? Btw, here's the definition of spam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam. I can't disagree that supporters need to behave better and not rave around like nutballs though I know it can be tough when the others engage in similar tactics. That said, it's not the only reason we're so disliked. The media and the pundits demonization of Ron and his chances are partly to blame.

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## parocks

But it's not a big story for Huntsman.  They have to twist the facts pretty hard to make it not Ron Paul.  We get the headline, because they can't do anything about the facts.  

If Huntsman won, it would've been a big story for Huntsman.  But he didn't win, and it's not a big story for him.

Last year, the Mormons won, this year, we won.




> They don't even need someone else to win to claim it's a big deal for another candidate.  Read my last post.

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## falconplayer11

http://tinyurl.com/6gh2vd9

Everyone facebook like/retweet this article...this is being played down by the media!!! Romney got HUGE props when he won last time.

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## rockandrollsouls

Well I'm not. It's the norm at this point. Like it or not, the media is fairly accurate about what happens.

Paul supporters find out about some poll, they inform their energized supporter base, they send those supporters to the events or polls to win them. It's 100% true....but that's not what bugs me most. The way we handle it and actively isolate the rest of the party is what irks me. We're certainly not winning friends where we need to be. And, again, I feel Ron's speech could have been infinitely better. Would have been nice if he plugged his Reagan endorsement and the fact he has been working in and for the GOP for years. He needed to show the party what he's done for them and how he's been right. 

That would have been a true win. These straw poll numbers haven't meant anything since the last campaign.

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## provita

I was there all three days. I didn't see many rude Ron Paul supporters. Hell, I saw quite a lot of supporters being polite, clapping to other speakers when they disagreed and being silent when they disagreed. Whenever our members booed, we told them to shut up and be respectful. However, when Paul spoke of legalizing hemp, we received a lot of boos, and quite a few non-Paul supporters looked at me as if I was a traitor or something.

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## parocks

The headline is the most important part.  That's what people are going to be taking away.

But, yes, if they liked us, they'd say something nice.  We know they don't like us.  We know that a straw poll win is not as important for us as it would be for another candidate.  It's still valuable for us to get the win.

If we could've gotten all the Ron Paul supporters to vote for, I dunno, Buddy Roemer, that would've been even more fun.




> Of course they have to start it off like this:
> 
> "Paul, who brought busloads of supporters"

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## sailingaway

> You guys celebrate every straw poll we spam as a win. It hasn't done anything for us nationally since 2008 and we always piss off the core of the party in the process. Like them or not, we need to be on good terms with those that hijacked the GOP.
> 
> _So let's see....we'll still be polling in single digits....the rude supporters that did attend turned off a huge potential base....Ron's speech itself was polarizing....and we managed to piss of the party again by sending a boat-load of our own guys to crash the scene.
> _
> 
> A buzzkill? I'm calling it how I see it. And you all wonder why we're so disliked. We basically use mob-tactics at any event we attend and make a poor name for this campaign. I'm willing to bet we'd gain more support if things were handled differently.


Oh, come on, they ALL used mob tactics in terms of trying to get their supporters to attend.. I COMPLETELY agree that booing is the worst possible thing to do, though because it makes it 'ok' when others boo our guy who probably never booed anyone in his life.  It turns people against us. Without that, we wouldn't be seen as 'insurgents' but 'participants' and it is all the difference to winning new friends.  

But there is no possible reason HUNTSMAN with his polling and lack of connection to New Orleans would have come in second if he hadn't organized.  I KNOW Cain organizes, and Huntsman beat him.  I think he planned this as a pre-launch buzz factor before announcing next week, and honestly believe his last minute cancelation due to being 'sick' was because he found out how many Ron Paul supporters were there so wanted to spin it as 'he wasn't there, so of course he didn't win', although obviously his supporters would have already come and registered before he canceled.

Practicality is one thing, but trying to only find the bad in a big achievement when a lot of people obviously went out of their way to make it happen isn't very nice, imho.

----------


## Badger Paul

""Paul, who brought busloads of supporters" 

No, our supporters came of their own volition. It was Huntsman who bused in a bunch of CR flunkies.

Should we apologize because we have passionate and organized supporters? Hell no! Would you rather be Rick Santorum or Tim Pawlenty with no passionate support? 

I didn't think so. Who would pay any attention to us if we were meek and mild?

Make no mistake as to what we are trying to do. We are an inter-party group trying to take over a major political party, which is our right to do. We are no different than the Goldwater movement, the Reagan movement, the Christian Coalition and others which have done the same within the history of Republican Party. Why can they do so and not us?  We are encompassing a diverse coalition of persons and and persuasions united by RP's message. If we succeed, we will cause a fundamental realignment of U.S. politics, which frankly in my opinion desperately needs it. There will be a lot of people opposed to us because we threaten their interests within the party and in the nation as a whole. We have to be ready to take them on, beat them and present them fait accompli: You can back us or go kiss Obama's ass. 

The purpose is not to destroy the GOP but to use it as vehicle for a larger cause which has it roots historically within the party as a whole. The bottom line is we're shaping a Republican Party for the 21st Century and for the nation and world as it exists, not as how others wish it to be either through nostalgia or ideology. This must be done or the party will turn into a bitter, cramped minority of old white people living in dying towns and suburbs even more dependent on government than they already are. That might be good enough to win mid-term election but not a general and it will only be a matter of time before it can't even win a special election.

The message we take to average GOP voter is quite simple. We can grow this party, we can renew it, and we can make it endure.  We can win and beat back the socialists. We can save the country. It's that simple.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

I'd really like to know how I'm "finding the bad." Can you show me one straw poll we've won that has translated into a significant gain of forward momentum?

From what I remember, there are threads 20 pages long about every poll we win and how awesome it will be for us, yet we always poll with the same percentage of support.

----------


## sailingaway

The story here is that our guy had over 600 votes and the next closest was only 300 and change. They'll have to do a lot better than that to win Ames.

----------


## sailingaway

> I'd really like to know how I'm "finding the bad." Can you show me one straw poll we've won that has translated into a significant gain of forward momentum?
> 
> From what I remember, there are threads 20 pages long about every poll we win and how awesome it will be for us, yet we always poll with the same percentage of support.


Momentum media gives the possiblity of more support. WITHOUT it, Michele Bachmann would  have the entire and building spot light right now. That would hurt us.  It was a big win because it helped keep Ron in positive headlines during her peak 'announcement' period.  All go up at the beginning, we have to stay relatively up, and stay up still when they start to fall down again, after vetting.  She timed her announcement perfectly amid all these high profile events - she is at another today, and did well, apparently.  With Ron out of the headlines, it would look like she took his place.  As it is, she's the new star, but there are others, particularly Ron, there before her.

----------


## RonPaulVolunteer

God I wish there was a function on RPF where if X-number of people clicked a link it would ban a user for 2 hours. It's really _really_ needed.

----------


## swissaustrian

> ""Paul, who brought busloads of supporters" 
> 
> No, our supporters came of their own volition. It was Huntsman who bused in a bunch of CR flunkies.
> 
> Should we apologize because we have passionate and organized supporters? Hell no! Would you rather be Rick Santorum or Tim Pawlenty with no passionate support? 
> 
> I didn't think so. Who would pay any attention to us if we were meek and mild?
> 
> Make no mistake as to what we are trying to do. We are an inter-party group trying to take over a major political party, which is our right to do. We are no different than the Goldwater movement, the Reagan movement, the Christian Coalition and others which have done the same within the history of Republican Party. Why can they do so and not us?  We are encompassing a diverse coalition of persons and and persuasions united by RP's message. If we succeed, we will cause a fundamental realignment of U.S. politics, which frankly in my opinion desperately needs it. There will be a lot of people opposed to us because we threaten their interests within the party and in the nation as a whole. We have to be ready to take them on, beat them and present them fait accompli: You can back us or go kiss Obama's ass. 
> ...


The media which brought *busloads of prestitutes*... still can´t handle the truth.
Expect the same thing in iowa...

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## sailingaway

> God I wish there was a function on RPF where if X-number of people clicked a link it would ban a user for 2 hours. It's really _really_ needed.


I'm kinda agreeing with you.

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## S.Shorland

You can add people to your ignore list

----------


## low preference guy

> God I wish there was a function on RPF where if X-number of people clicked a link it would ban a user for 2 hours. It's really _really_ needed.





> I'm kinda agreeing with you.


I don't get what you two are talking about.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

> You can add people to your ignore list


Too extreme.

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## parocks

Huntsman's supporters are Romney supporters.  Romney likely bought a bunch of tickets long before he decided "no more straw polls for me" and told his supporters to vote for the other Mormon.




> Oh, come on, they ALL used mob tactics in terms of trying to get their supporters to attend.. I COMPLETELY agree that booing is the worst possible thing to do, though because it makes it 'ok' when others boo our guy who probably never booed anyone in his life.  It turns people against us. Without that, we wouldn't be seen as 'insurgents' but 'participants' and it is all the difference to winning new friends.  
> 
> But there is no possible reason HUNTSMAN with his polling and lack of connection to New Orleans would have come in second if he hadn't organized.  I KNOW Cain organizes, and Huntsman beat him.  I think he planned this as a pre-launch buzz factor before announcing next week, and honestly believe his last minute cancelation due to being 'sick' was because he found out how many Ron Paul supporters were there so wanted to spin it as 'he wasn't there, so of course he didn't win', although obviously his supporters would have already come and registered before he canceled.
> 
> Practicality is one thing, but trying to only find the bad in a big achievement when a lot of people obviously went out of their way to make it happen isn't very nice, imho.

----------


## reduen

> You guys celebrate every straw poll we spam as a win. It hasn't done anything for us nationally since 2008 and we always piss off the core of the party in the process. Like them or not, we need to be on good terms with those that hijacked the GOP.
> 
> _So let's see....we'll still be polling in single digits....the rude supporters that did attend turned off a huge potential base....Ron's speech itself was polarizing....and we managed to piss of the party again by sending a boat-load of our own guys to crash the scene.
> _
> 
> A buzzkill? I'm calling it how I see it. And you all wonder why we're so disliked. We basically use mob-tactics at any event we attend and make a poor name for this campaign. I'm willing to bet we'd gain more support if things were handled differently.


You use the word *we* an awful lot, you got a mouse in your pocket? *I* personally have never behaved in such a manner and *I* am yet to see these terrible *we* people that you are talking about

Guess you think it would have been better for Ron Paul if he had nobody show up and he had lost the last two polls huh? 

What is this we and them language anyway? In my county the Ron Paul supporters are the insiders!!! We are the Republican Party.. What have you done for Ron Paul in your county???

Get over yourself and do something for the cause. Have you been to any of these events? Have you presented Ron Paul to your local GOP?

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## Badger Paul

"Expect the same thing in iowa..."

But the Iowa Straw Open is open only to Iowans. It's not something you can just flock to from all over the country and vote. It is a test of strength of one's Iowa organization. And if we do well, then they just can't write-us off. 

Winning it would bring a lot people to the campaign, the one's who don't think we can win.

----------


## Anti Federalist

I don't know why you're arguing. it's pretty much the same point.

Sit down, shut up, go away, play nice, and all the world will love Ron Paul.

What nonsense.

We are engaged in a campaign that will, if successful, will demolish the status quo and in the process, hang a lot people that are dependent on that status quo out to dry.

That includes a whole mess of short thinking " limited government conservatives" that have some vested interest in that status quo.

Of *course* they hate us, they* always* will hate us and no amount of ass kissing is going to change that. 

A win will come about only one way, bringing a whole slew of new voters on board who are just as sick of the status quo as we are.

If we're going to rely on the "old guard" GOP to win this, we're sunk before we even start.





> Oh, come on, they ALL used mob tactics in terms of trying to get their supporters to attend.. I COMPLETELY agree that booing is the worst possible thing to do, though because it makes it 'ok' when others boo our guy who probably never booed anyone in his life.  It turns people against us. Without that, we wouldn't be seen as 'insurgents' but 'participants' and it is all the difference to winning new friends.  
> 
> But there is no possible reason HUNTSMAN with his polling and lack of connection to New Orleans would have come in second if he hadn't organized.  I KNOW Cain organizes, and Huntsman beat him.  I think he planned this as a pre-launch buzz factor before announcing next week, and honestly believe his last minute cancelation due to being 'sick' was because he found out how many Ron Paul supporters were there so wanted to spin it as 'he wasn't there, so of course he didn't win', although obviously his supporters would have already come and registered before he canceled.
> 
> Practicality is one thing, but trying to only find the bad in a big achievement when a lot of people obviously went out of their way to make it happen isn't very nice, imho.

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## RonPaulVolunteer

^^ come on!!

----------


## swissaustrian

> "Expect the same thing in iowa..."
> 
> But the Iowa Straw Open is open only to Iowans. It's not something you can just flock to from all over the country and vote. It is a test of strength of one's Iowa organization. And if we do well, then they just can't write-us off. 
> 
> Winning it would bring a lot people to the campaign, the one's who don't think we can win.


The story will probably be:
Ron Paul organized xx buses.
All the other candidates did nothing. - Of course, the opposite will be true
Conclusion: Don´t pay attention to the results, we - the media - know what´s good for you.

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## Badger Paul

"If we're going to rely on the "old guard" GOP to win this, we're sunk before we even start."

Agreed. The best we can hope for is aquiesence, be everyone's second or third choice. I don't want undying opposition but we shouldn't back down either if we believe we are right.

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## speciallyblend

i need a napkin? napkin please http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMC3ffwoMVE

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## Anti Federalist

> ^^ come on!!


Come on what?

You really think you're going to get die hard neocons, war hawks or Israel Firsters to vote for Ron just because we're pleasant?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> "If we're going to rely on the "old guard" GOP to win this, we're sunk before we even start."
> 
> Agreed. The best we can hope for is aquiesence, be everyone's second or third choice. I don't undying opposition but we shouldn't back down either if we believe we are right.


Exactly, listen, the "old guard" will get on board just like they did with Rand, because to them, it's nothing but ball game, "my side's gotta win!"

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## Debbie Hopper

We did not bus anyone in.  No one.

The GOP of Jackson County MS brought a busload.  Some were RP supporters, some were not.

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## sailingaway

> We did not bus anyone in.  No one.
> 
> The GOP of Jackson County MS brought a busload.  Some were RP supporters, some were not.


We didn't think you did. And said so higher up in the comment sections than this would have allowed us to respond.   

Did you see CNN on Huntsman?  He apparently thought winning would be a nice buzz for his announcement next week, if you read between the lines. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...op-straw-poll/

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## sailingaway

> "If we're going to rely on the "old guard" GOP to win this, we're sunk before we even start."
> 
> Agreed. The best we can hope for is aquiesence, be everyone's second or third choice. I don't want undying opposition but we shouldn't back down either if we believe we are right.


We are talking about not booing people.  That is basic politeness, not political principle.

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## sailingaway

Look at CBS's addition!  I had commented that I was certain Huntsman must have organized too, given he had no ties to New Orleans and was polling in the basement, and maybe a bunch of others commented the same.  Look at this:




> It has been rumored here that Huntsman's campaign bought tickets for and bussed in a number of college Republicans to up his vote. In response to an inquiry from CBS News, Huntsman's camp did not deny spending money to increase Huntsman's vote total. 
> 
> Huntsman's cancellation was seen as a missed opportunity to make his case to conservative activists, who were thought to view him warily because of his centrist positions on immigration, cap-and-trade legislation and gay rights - as well as his willingness to serve in the Obama administration. But his strong finish in the straw poll will serve as a signal -- legitimate or not -- that conservative activists may be more open to Huntsman than some expected.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...#ixzz1PfSeMUDE

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## Badger Paul

"We are talking about not booing people. That is basic politeness, not political principle. "

Oh, but we can be booed if we win a straw poll, is that it?

This isn't bean bag and it is not courtesy class. This is freaking politics! People get booed. It happens. And guess what? It's also a contact sport too, or so I've been told. So long as we weren't disruptive of the speakers or violent, it's not a freakin' crime. 

You don't see me complaining if our opponents boo us? I frankly don't care. It's a free country and they can do what they want. So why are we under some sort of double standard of politeness? If some candidate spoke in favor of abortion right you don't think he would be booed? Of course.

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## sailingaway

> "We are talking about not booing people. That is basic politeness, not political principle. "
> 
> Oh, but we can be booed if we win a straw poll, is that it?
> 
> This isn't bean bag and it is not courtesy class. This is freaking politics! People get booed. It happens. And guess what? It's also a contact sport too, or so I've been told. So long as we weren't disruptive of the speakers or violent, it's not a freakin' crime. 
> 
> You don't see me complaining if our opponents boo us? I frankly don't care. It's a free country and they can do what they want. So why are we under some sort of double standard of politeness? If some candidate spoke in favor of abortion right you don't think he would be booed? Of course.


AFTER we booed them.  Has anyone booed us, ever, when we've been polite to all speakers?  Name once.

Ron is trying to reach NEW voters who might be open to him, but people don't want to be associated with supporters who boo other speakers.

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## specsaregood

> AFTER we booed them.  Has anyone booed us, ever, when we've been polite to all speakers?  Name once.
> Ron is trying to reach NEW voters who might be open to him, but people don't want to be associated with supporters who boo other speakers.


Dr. Paul and his supporters have been belittled, booed and insulted for years.  There is nothing you can do to stop the retaliation at this point, so you might as well stop trying and embrace it.   Hell, make it more fun, encourage the roudiness and perhaps we'll bring in more supporters.

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## KramerDSP

I was born and raised in Philly, where the third word every kid learns after "mom" and "dad" is "boo!". With that said, I think when we booed Herman Cain's israel comments, that's when the "crowd" turned on us and decided to boo Ron when he won the straw poll. We're probably better off just not applauding when the rest of the room cheers thunderously at similar comments we don't entirely agree with as opposed to vocally booing. But then again, if one RP supporter booed, the entire faction is considered rude and hostile, so we can't really win at those things.

I agree that had Ron lost, the media story would have been "See! Ron Paul can't even win these straw polls!". But they act like we've been winning for years and years. when it's only been two consecutive years. It must feel like dog years to them, I guess, with the Ron Paul Revolution gaining traction day by day.

Ron Paul wins Iowa Straw Poll  - MSM: "Oh my god, Herman Cain finished second!!! This is the real story!"
Ron Paul wins the Iowa Caucuses - MSM: "Oh my god! Michelle Bachman finished 5% short of second place! She has momentum!"
Ron Paul wins New Hampshire- MSM: "Mitt Romney's campaign is over. This is the perfect time for Rick Perry to sweep in!"
Ron Paul finishes 2nd in SC - MSM: "Ron Paul is TOAST! No one has not won SC and went on to win the nomination!"

It's infuriating, but we need to be prepared for this. Is there any way we could do an ad campaign with an empahsis placed on "Look for this story to happen from the MSM if this happens". Then when it does happen, people go "wait a minute... maybe those Ron Paul folks are onto something....".

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## Badger Paul

"That is basic politeness, not political principle. "

Tell me, were those Tea Party activists at all those town hall meetings back in 2009 and 10 worried about politeness?

What about Congressman Joe Wilson? I didn't seem to me too polite to say "You Lie!" during a presidential speech? Yet he got re-elected anyway.

Why then do Ron Paul supporters have to be held to a different standard about politeness?

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## Pheonix

> "That is basic politeness, not political principle. "
> 
> Tell me, were those Tea Party activists at all those town hall meetings back in 2009 and 10 worried about politeness?
> 
> What about Congressman Joe Wilson? I didn't seem to me too polite to say "You Lie!" during a presidential speech? Yet he got re-elected anyway.
> 
> Why then do Ron Paul supporters have to be held to a different standard about politeness?


Because we're trying to win an election. It's important we force ourselves to be polite for another year so people look at us in better light. Also, with the only attention we tend to be getting being negative, it'd be nice if people associated us with something more positive. After the elections we can boo and yell all we want, but not now; killing Dr. Paul's chances because we can't control our emotions is selfish.

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## BUSHLIED

At least CSPAN gives us front page on the SRLC win! http://www.cspan.org/

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## rockandrollsouls

According to poll numbers, that's about 93% of the party. You might not want to admit it, but you're going to have to win over a large portion of them to take the primary.




> Come on what?
> 
> You really think you're going to get die hard neocons, war hawks or Israel Firsters to vote for Ron just because we're pleasant?

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> God I wish there was a function on RPF where if X-number of people clicked a link it would ban a user for 2 hours. It's really _really_ needed.


 I'd like to see a SlashDot.org karma system myself.

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## Exponent

> We did not bus anyone in.  No one.
> 
> The GOP of Jackson County MS brought a busload.  Some were RP supporters, some were not.


It might be useful to let RealClearPolitics know that.  They have an article that rather blatantly claims otherwise:



> But bragging rights on this day also belonged to Paul, a result foreshadowed Friday while Cain was speaking. Cain vowed that if he were president, anyone who "messed with Israel" would also be screwing with the United States. Many of the crowd roared, and rose to their feet. From the wings of the hall, however, the reaction of Ron Paul's non-interventionist crowd *-- they had been bused in for the event --* was telling: They either remained silent or openly booed.


I'd tell them myself, but I have no authority, given I know only what I've read here.

Edit/Disclaimer:  Please don't read any of r&rsouls' attitude below into my post as well; I'm only trying to be helpful.

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## rockandrollsouls

Yes. It seems the campaign should be setting that straight with news sources printing an incorrect story....telling us all on the board you didn't bus anyone in doesn't do much to fix anything. We know that already.

Another rookie mistake, apparently. Sigh.





> It might be useful to let RealClearPolitics know that.  They have an article that rather blatantly claims otherwise:
> 
> I'd tell them myself, but I have no authority, given I know only what I've read here.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

In related news, Fox radio is mentioning that Ron won the SRLC straw poll in their news reel but also note that we bussed in supporters to do so.

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## wgadget

> Unfortunately, our own guys' behavior 'united' many against Ron.  We really have to get the word to our people about that, but I don't know how.


You mean their BOOING what they disapproved of?  You mean like the "regular Republicans" did when they found out Ron Paul won the straw poll?  Is that what you mean?

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## Restore-America-NOW

Ames is ours. They can discredit us all they want, but once we win the straw poll that has historically been the most prominent and telling as to how the GOP primary may shape up, it'll be all downhill.

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## sailingaway

Washington Times literally says the campaign PAID people to go and boo at other candidates and vote in the straw poll.  I was seething.  And I called another blogger a liar.  I'm not googling for a while

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## wgadget

> The story will probably be:
> Ron Paul organized xx buses.
> All the other candidates did nothing. - Of course, the opposite will be true
> Conclusion: Don´t pay attention to the results, we - the media - know what´s good for you.


You're exactly right, and the point that rockandroll is missing is that the MSM (mainstream media) IS against us.  Period.  

And the occasion of Ron Paul winning this straw poll is an excellent example of it.  Read the stories they're putting out.  It's sickening.

----------


## sailingaway

> Ames is ours. They can discredit us all they want, but once we win the straw poll that has historically been the most prominent and telling as to how the GOP primary may shape up, it'll be all downhill.


It will be hard to say that means nothing IF we win.  People have had that be the big reported deal for so long, and itis even advertised as an expensive effort requiring lots of organization by campaigns.

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## wgadget

> In related news, Fox radio is mentioning that Ron won the SRLC straw poll in their news reel but also note that we bussed in supporters to do so.


You're kidding, right?  

I heard/read that it was Huntsman who was busing in supporters, not Ron.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

1. You're just plain wrong. You expect the media to give us anymore credence when Ron's polling at 7%? Hell, let's be honest, he's treated just like any other candidate. Romney is polling in the upper 30% range, Bachmann around 20%, and other candidates ahead of Ron. 

If anything, the media gives Romney more crap than they do Paul. He's always being talked about for flip flopping or his health plan ordeal. Yea, they talk about him as the front-runner but he is the front runner. 

There's really not some conspiracy. Yea, it might not be fair or perfect all of the time but Ron get's a lot of coverage and press for where he's polling, in my opinion. 

Like it or not, the MSM is a business and they are trying to get ratings. Simply because Ron is polling poorly doesn't mean it's due to the media outlet. In fact, I will sooner blame the campaign and the unwillingness to address his glaring issues as the primary factor in the poor polling. If you're so willing to ignore that and skip right to blaming everyone else, I honestly think you're crazy.

2. This is an opportunity when the campaign needs to fire back at the misreporting of Ron's straw poll victory. Again, I don't think this victory holds water in the grand scheme of things but this is an opportunity for the campaign to set the record straight and hold strong. I will be surprised and disheartened if they let another slanderous debacle go untouched.

3. This victory is nothing in relation to winning Ames. How do you see any connection? I suppose the 5 reputable polls that came out putting us in the single digit range in relation to Romney's 30% and Bachmann's near 20% are all a conspiracy, inaccurate, and entirely wrong?

You're going to be sorely disappointed when you see the actual numbers. In fact, I expect to see us do worse than we're hoping just like last year. It hurts me to say that as I wish it weren't true, but I don't see a different approach being utilized by Ron or the campaign. Why should I expect different results?




> You're exactly right, and the point that rockandroll is missing is that the MSM (mainstream media) IS against us.  Period.  
> 
> And the occasion of Ron Paul winning this straw poll is an excellent example of it.  Read the stories they're putting out.  It's sickening.

----------


## Legend1104

For all the people saying that the booing is good/ok, let me tell you what my experience has been. I used to be for it, but I was at the SRLC Friday during the Cain and Paul speech. I have been trying to woo my wife and mother-in-law towards Ron Paul for a while now. I have gotten them pretty close but when the supporters started booing, it was really embarrassing and a big turn off to my family. My mother-in-law actually, "Said I don't like Ron Paul now." All booing does is make people feel better and lose more support. 

It is like what my father told me once. Never make one of your friend's parent made at you. If their child does something bad, it is ok because they will always love their child, but if you do something bad, they will remember it and like you less because of it. Even if they boo us it does not give us the right to boo them. They will forget that their people booed us but will always remember that we booed them. It is always bad.

----------


## hard@work

> Even if they boo us it does not give us the right to boo them. They will forget that their people booed us but will always remember that we booed them. It is always bad.



Bingo.

----------


## jake

what would Ron do? not boo.

Suck it up!!

----------


## Paul4Prez

Booing won't win any new supporters, so don't do it.

When stories mistakenly say we bussed in supporters, just politely correct them in the comments, and ask why the other candidates couldn't find busloads of supporters to bring in, but Ron Paul's supporters came in on their own.

----------


## Paul4Prez

> Why did Huntsman do so well?


Because he's declaring his candidacy next week and he wanted to win this straw poll to launch it with some good news, to change the narrative about his 2 percent poll standings.  We "nipped it in the bud", so to speak.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

It's the official campaign's job to address this. And they best do it.




> Booing won't win any new supporters, so don't do it.
> 
> When stories mistakenly say we bussed in supporters, just politely correct them in the comments, and ask why the other candidates couldn't find busloads of supporters to bring in, but Ron Paul's supporters came in on their own.

----------


## king_nothing_

> 1. You're just plain wrong. You expect the media to give us anymore credence when Ron's polling at 7%? Hell, let's be honest, he's treated just like any other candidate. Romney is polling in the upper 30% range, Bachmann around 20%, and other candidates ahead of Ron. 
> 
> If anything, the media gives Romney more crap than they do Paul. He's always being talked about for flip flopping or his health plan ordeal. Yea, they talk about him as the front-runner but he is the front runner. 
> 
> There's really not some conspiracy. Yea, it might not be fair or perfect all of the time but Ron get's a lot of coverage and press for where he's polling, in my opinion. 
> 
> Like it or not, the MSM is a business and they are trying to get ratings. Simply because Ron is polling poorly doesn't mean it's due to the media outlet. In fact, I will sooner blame the campaign and the unwillingness to address his glaring issues as the primary factor in the poor polling. If you're so willing to ignore that and skip right to blaming everyone else, I honestly think you're crazy.
> 
> 2. This is an opportunity when the campaign needs to fire back at the misreporting of Ron's straw poll victory. Again, I don't think this victory holds water in the grand scheme of things but this is an opportunity for the campaign to set the record straight and hold strong. I will be surprised and disheartened if they let another slanderous debacle go untouched.
> ...


It doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy for it to be true that they don't treat him fairly.  They personally believe he doesn't have a chance in hell, and they inject their subjectivity into how they cover him.  If they were principled, professional journalists, that wouldn't happen. Objectivity is, for the most part, dead in the mainstream media.

Shouldn't the fact he's polling at 7% make this win an even bigger deal?  If anyone else who was polling that low would have won it, wouldn't that be the top story?  Yes.  When Ron does it, though, it garners one sentence in an entire article from CNN (and not the headline), and plays a distant second fiddle to the guy who placed second by 15 percentage points.  How do you explain this other than $#@!ty, subjective journalism?

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## mpdsapuser

The real question is whether those polls placing Ron Paul at 7% are legitimate. I tend to think they are as credible as a Frank Luntz focus group. The establishment obviously does not want a Ron Paul presidency so they are going to do whatever it takes to influence the sheep, I mean the American public's opinions.

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## rockandrollsouls

Judging by your join date you weren't around last election cycle. Heard the same exact excuse then up until the end. Turns out they were dead on every single time.

Would be nice if this was recognized and addressed rather than operating in blissful ignorance.




> The real question is whether those polls placing Ron Paul at 7% are legitimate. I tend to think they are as credible as a Frank Luntz focus group. The establishment obviously does not want a Ron Paul presidency so they are going to do whatever it takes to influence the sheep, I mean the American public's opinions.

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## Paul Or Nothing II

> We are engaged in a campaign that will, if successful, will demolish the status quo and in the process, hang a lot people that are dependent on that status quo out to dry.
> 
> That includes a whole mess of short thinking " limited government conservatives" that have some vested interest in that status quo.
> 
> Of *course* they hate us, they* always* will hate us and no amount of ass kissing is going to change that. 
> 
> A win will come about only one way, bringing a whole slew of new voters on board who are just as sick of the status quo as we are.
> 
> If we're going to rely on the "old guard" GOP to win this, we're sunk before we even start.


While I agree that booing at other candidates is definitely not the way to go but I also agree that GOP status quo & the media have strong reasons to NOT like us & it's not going to change; our only chance is to get to the average GOP voters & try to wake'em up either thru grassroots or by Ron actually wording himself in a way to get the message across to the masses.




> I agree that had Ron lost, the media story would have been "See! Ron Paul can't even win these straw polls!". But they act like we've been winning for years and years. when it's only been two consecutive years. It must feel like dog years to them, I guess, with the Ron Paul Revolution gaining traction day by day.
> 
> Ron Paul wins Iowa Straw Poll  - MSM: "Oh my god, Herman Cain finished second!!! This is the real story!"
> Ron Paul wins the Iowa Caucuses - MSM: "Oh my god! Michelle Bachman finished 5% short of second place! She has momentum!"
> Ron Paul wins New Hampshire- MSM: "Mitt Romney's campaign is over. This is the perfect time for Rick Perry to sweep in!"
> Ron Paul finishes 2nd in SC - MSM: "Ron Paul is TOAST! No one has not won SC and went on to win the nomination!"
> 
> It's infuriating, but we need to be prepared for this. Is there any way we could do an ad campaign with an empahsis placed on "Look for this story to happen from the MSM if this happens". Then when it does happen, people go "wait a minute... maybe those Ron Paul folks are onto something....".


While this example is a little hyperbolic, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happened because again, the elite of the status quo have too much to lose if Ron wins so ought to get used to the negative media & stop worrying about it & focus on WHAT WE CAN DO to make things better for us.




> It doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy for it to be true that they don't treat him fairly.  They personally believe he doesn't have a chance in hell, and they inject their subjectivity into how they cover him.  If they were principled, professional journalists, that wouldn't happen. Objectivity is, for the most part, dead in the mainstream media.
> 
> Shouldn't the fact he's polling at 7% make this win an even bigger deal?  If anyone else who was polling that low would have won it, wouldn't that be the top story?  Yes.  When Ron does it, though, it garners one sentence in an entire article from CNN (and not the headline), and plays a distant second fiddle to the guy who placed second by 15 percentage points.  How do you explain this other than $#@!ty, subjective journalism?


Agreed, it doesn't've be a grand conspiracy, manifold social factors working together can produce complex behavioral social patterns that may resemble a design but it's not that everyone is "in" on it & yet because of such social patterns a lot of people can naturally be anti-RonPaul but of course, these patterns can be broken & it's visible in the way some of the reporters treat Ron NOW as opposed to 4 years ago but the fact is that these patterns mostly do exist & that's what hurts Ron a lot with the kind of negative response he generates from the media & that response IS real & not just a "coincidence".




> The real question is whether those polls placing Ron Paul at 7% are legitimate. I tend to think they are as credible as a Frank Luntz focus group. The establishment obviously does not want a Ron Paul presidency so they are going to do whatever it takes to influence the sheep, I mean the American public's opinions.


As has been said before, this is what a lot of us believed last election but as it turned out, the polls were pretty accurate, we were about a couple of % in the polls & that's what we got in the actual elections. So we shouldn't underestimate the accuracy of the polls, they may be a point here or there at best but that's that. So we do have a lot of work to do still & so does Ron.

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## speciallyblend

the gop will elect obama!

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## Anti Federalist

> the gop will elect obama!


Pretty much.

On the "big" issues: wars, Israel first, out of control spending, crony corporatist bailouts, increasing the police state, is there any appreciable difference between Bush and Obama?

There has to be a focus on getting new people into the "system", or bringing back people who left long ago in disgust, like myself.

People as disaffected and pissed off as most of us are, is what's going to turn this around.

That is where the some of focus of the campaign should be.

We'll all be in our graves waiting around for some of these party hacks to see the light.

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