# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Who's Packin' What?

## john_anderson_ii

We've gained quite a few new members since the last time we broached this topic, so I'd like to start the gun owner's conversation up again.  

I'm a "gun enthusiast" and we make marksmanship a family event around here.  I live in Arizona, so as long as one is willing to accept the responsibilities, owning a firearm and a CCW is pretty easy to come by.  I'm also a former Marine, and as such I value marksmanship.  I really, really enjoy the sense of pride a well placed shot gives me.

On a daily basis, I carry a Glock 23 (.40 cal compact) or an HK P2000 (.40 cal subcompact).  My wife and I trade out these two pistols, depending on who has more room and who wants to carry the heavier pistol.  I'm a big fan of Glock, they are pretty much unbreakable and will fire every time you ask them to do so.  However, I've got to say, the HK with the LEM trigger is by far my favorite handgun, even if I put looser groups on paper due to it's smaller frame.  I can only hold the HK with three fingers.

As far as long arms go, my main long range choice is my Lithgow SMLE MKIII rifle.  I recently obtained a boatload of reloading equipment and am beginning to learn to the ammunition manufacture trade, a.k.a reloading.  That seems to be the only way I'll be able to afford British .303 rounds in the future because it seems no one is making this round anymore.   With Federal ammunition I can put saucer sized groups at 500yds from prone with iron sights.  I don't care much for optics.

I'm also really getting into shotguns.  The only shotgun I have is a Mossberg 590A 12ga, which I picked up for practically a song and a dance.  I'm currently looking for a kit that offers a folding stock, pistol grip and rubberized slide for it.  I'm also looking for a 20ga of some sort for the kids.

The most accurate pistol I have is surprisingly a Glock 22C (.40 caliber, full sized, compensated).  Too bad it's not practical to carry.  It's too big, and the muzzle flash from the recoil compensator will blind you at night.

For family shooting I keep a Walther P22 .22lr semi-automatic pistol, and a Mossberg 46B .22lr bolt-action rifle.  My eldest, at 9 years old, can go to the ranges with me, but even my 7 year old can handle these weapons well in the informal environment of open desert shooting.  My 9 year old is about to grow out of the .22lr rifle, so I'm looking for something bigger than .22lr but smaller than .223 or .270 and semi-automatic.  I still haven't figured out what I want next for her.

So, if there are any new gun enthusiasts on this board, what do you own and how and when do you use it?

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## Ozwest

A 12 guage loaded with slugs is a lethal weapon for in-house and immediate vicinity home protection (since you said you were warming to shotties).

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## john_anderson_ii

The Highway Patrolman that taught my CCW class showed me the value of a 12ga shotgun in the home.  He, however, stressed 00 Buck as the round of choice.  The impact of 00 buck on a target is devastating,  much more than you can expect from several well placed .45 pistol shots, and they all take place simultaneously.  

The average class size at the facility I took my CCW course is about 80 per week.  Awesome!!  In this particular class, we were also fortunate enough to have both a lawyer and a doctor in attendance.  The doctor was able to describe primary and secondary wound channels, and their biological effects on "combat effectiveness".  The drop in blood pressure, the shock, the outright trauma of a single 00 shot to the main body cavity is more effective than an entire pistol mag.  The shotty is also safer for your family and you liability.  As the lawyer explained, the 00 buck round does not overpenetrate. It's extremely unlikely to break through brick, stucco, or wood paneling exterior walls with enough velocity to cause serious bodily harm.  Even sheet rock over wood stud construction destabilizes and slows the shot.

So yes, the best personal home defense weapon available is a shotgun, you just can't carry it around with you.  (Well, in Arizona you could, but you'd get awfully hot in a trench coat.)

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## BuddyRey

I've got only one firearm; an ancient .22 revolver with two vintage buffalo nickels adorning the stock.  I have no idea of the weapon's manufacturer, model, or vintage; only that it belonged to my late uncle who possessed a veritable arsenal of guns for sport and self-defense.

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## noxagol

I've got a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 which fires the massive 7.62x54R, right now I have some 150gr soft point bullets. I also have a Remmingtion Nylon 66 which is a semi-auto .22lr with a tube magazine in the stock. I fired 1000 rounds out of it one day and it never jammed once. It is a very reliable gun. 

My next gun I am looking to buy is a semi-auto 7.62 NATO rifle, or maybe a 6.8SPC M16. Or a pistol like the Springfield XD-45. A .45 that can hold 13+1 rounds, can't beat it.

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## Man from La Mancha

It this the most stupid thing to ask in this day of everything being virtually recorded for all posterity. i even thought of putting up an anonymous poll but still to the forum owners and who else that can tap that would know what one has or is bragging about and would consider it real. DUH.

.

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## pcosmar

I have a pitch fork and an axe.
My rights are INFRINGED.

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## ConstitutionGal

I carry a Taurua .357 magnum concealed (with a TN permit, of course) and my husband totes a 9mm Ruger.  Of course, we have a nice 16 gauge shotgun at home along with a nice littel WWII vintage .32 Berretta.    

.357 - don't leave home without it ;0

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## Cap

Deleted

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## CopperheadNC

Mine:
Ruger Vaquero, which I open carry on a daily basis.
M1A (national match)
Remington 870

My wife's:
Taurus CIA .357
Ruger 10/22

I need to get a more practical handgun for everyday carry purposes, I guess, but goddamn I love my single action cowboy gun

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## pcosmar

> I need to get a more practical handgun for everyday carry purposes, I guess, but goddamn I love my single action cowboy gun


Effective and dependable.
Stick with what you are comfortable with.

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## Tsoman

an 8mm Mauser

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## john_anderson_ii

> an 8mm Mauser


An excellent weapon.  Two of my friends have those, they are very accurate and pack quite a punch.




> M1A (national match)


I'm jealous.  I really want one of these, or a modernized M14.

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## RedLightning

All Ive got is a marlin 60 .22 and a Yugo SKS in 7.62x39.  Looking to get a mid priced AK though.

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## noxagol

AK-47's are good and reliable, but lack badly in accuracy.

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## Wendi

> It this the most stupid thing to ask in this day of everything being virtually recorded for all posterity. i even thought of putting up an anonymous poll but still to the forum owners and who else that can tap that would know what one has or is bragging about and would consider it real. DUH.
> 
> .


 I would venture to guess that all of the firearms listed in this thread are registered, anyway

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## LukeNM

You guys/gals need to get over to the firing line, ar15.com and Glock Talk to help out... There are some very strong opinions there we are trying to sway. A few very devoted Ron Paul supporters are making some headway, but you have to be non-confrontational with this group or they will turn on us in mass.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=137
http://glocktalk.com/forums/

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## noxagol

I just bought a French bolt action rifle today for 175 and it is actually worth closer to 500. Yays for me and my ww2 collection!

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## Cap

> You guys/gals need to get over to the firing line, ar15.com and Glock Talk to help out... There are some very strong opinions there we are trying to sway. A few very devoted Ron Paul supporters are making some headway, but you have to be non-confrontational with this group or they will turn on us in mass.
> 
> http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/
> http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=137
> http://glocktalk.com/forums/


I've got my hands full over at the Ruger Forum.

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## 1000-points-of-fright

I roll old school.  Walther PPK/S .380 for CCW.  I want to get some kind of SBR HK clone with a suppressor for home defense/fun.  Also maybe a Mossberg 500 cruiser, but my hearing is damaged from years of high stage volume rockin'.  So maybe I'll just stick with the suppressed SBR.

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## jarmoore

I carry a Glock 30 (.45ACP) daily. Loaded with Federal Hydrashok 230gr's.

Home defense ... old school 12ga side by side w/ 00 buck on bandolier.

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## fredlp

Marlin 45-70 lever
Marlin 45LC lever
Marlin 30-30 lever
AK-47
SKS

XD-40 (daily carry)
Springfield .45 1911 subcompact
Kimber .45 1911 full-size
CZ-52
Bersa .380 (bug)
S&W .357 mag revolver w/scope
BFR 45-70 revolver w/10" barrel (bear/moose carry gun for walks in my woods)

12 gauge pump

Yours in Liberty,

Dave

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## mordechai

KelTec 9 daily. Have a Mossberg shottie for the house. Other goodies for other situations.

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## Cowlesy

Cut a hole in the roof of your Chevy Tahoe and mount an M-134 mini-gun.

Welcome to the big leagues.

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## huchahucha

AH!  My type of people.  I have numerous guns.  Most of them are handguns but I am starting to get into rifles.  I just got my CCW permit in August, and was convinced the ultimate carry piece was a (don't laugh now) S&W 3913 LadySmith  9mm.  It is a truly awesome single stack 9mm.  It is nice and compact and hides real well.  However, my true love is magnum revolvers and I started to grow weary of the little pistol.  I wasn't bothered that it is a pistol marketed for women.  I was bothered that it is a pistol.  I remedied the situation today when I picked up my brand new Lew Horton special edition S&W model 686+, L-"Flame" .357 Magnum with 2 1/2 barrel.  (No, I did not type that wrong.  It is called an L-Flame because it has flames laser etched into the cylinder).

As for general shooting,  I make it a point to go to the range at least twice a week and shoot up at least 500 rds between visits, ranging in calibers from .22lr to .44 Magnum.

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## GoSlash27

Beretta 96 (.40S&W) 
 Beretta CX4 (.40S&W)
 Mossberg 590 (12g )
 All for competition (IPSC, IDPA, 3 gun) and home defense.

 Also a Savage MkII .17 HM2 for plinking.

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## crashm1

I have a couple 1911s one is a Kimber Compact (officer sized) one is a Colt commander and am looking for a .22lr conversion for it. There are a couple .357 revolvers lying around one S&W model 19 and a Rossi in stainless. I have a old S&W 12 ga pumpp that at some point in it's life was cut down to 18.5 inches and a Mossberg 500 also in 12ga. There are 2 Ruger10/22s in the closet a Remington 742 in .308 and a Savage 110L in .30-06, I am debating which AR clone I want and trying to decide on a caliber for it. I am leaning heavily towards a DPMS in 6.8 or 7.62x51 although 5.56 is still in the running and would be the cheapest option.

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## GoSlash27

crashm1,
 Cheap is good 
 Carbines that run ammo you can't afford to shoot in bulk are no fun. I load my own plinking ammo in .40 so cost isn't really a concern for me, but even so I don't practice with my CX4 very often.

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## Nicketas

> Marlin 45-70 lever
> Marlin 45LC lever
> Marlin 30-30 lever
> AK-47
> SKS
> 
> XD-40 (daily carry)
> Springfield .45 1911 subcompact
> Kimber .45 1911 full-size
> ...

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## fredlp

> 


Nicketas?  Please forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand your eek...

Care to elaborate?

Yours in Liberty,

Dave

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## sidcrowe

I'm Canadian. I can't carry $#@!    

I don't own anything, either, as you have to go through a mountain of red tape, first, the prices are inflated, and once you own in Kanada, it gives the police the right to visit whenever they want to check up on you    

Lucky Americans    :/

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## ksu_s13

> I'm Canadian. I can't carry $#@!    
> 
> I don't own anything, either, as you have to go through a mountain of red tape, first, the prices are inflated, and once you own in Kanada, it gives the police the right to visit whenever they want to check up on you    
> 
> Lucky Americans    :/


Does that apply to small hunting rifles as well?

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## sidcrowe

whoops

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## sidcrowe

What the.....?

I think I just screwed up my post. Sorry    :/

Anyway, again...I don't know for sure about the small hunting rifles. The Liberal government brought in the gun registry program...was supposed to cost a few million, but ended up costing billions.

This is the gun I want for home protection:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/prod...ducts_id=82875

It's like around $800 here   

We suck    

Protect your right, Americansdon't go Canadian     :P

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## asgardshill

Magnum Research Desert Eagle .50.  The weapon I choose to call "Painless", ironically because I've suffered two stress fractures in my left wrist after firing it on the range with too hot a load.

Mossberg 12 gauge pump.  Nothing special, just a good basic scattergun (heavily modified of course).

Weatherby .458.  Inherited from my grandfather - if I ever need to knock down a charging rhino, I'm set.

.22 derringer with pimp mods (pearl handles).

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## Lexx78

I live in Holland and only criminals are packing, and police in low caliber 

I only have a Katana

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## muabhcirk

A couple AR-15s (my favorite overall in my collection)
AK's in 7.62x39, 5.56x45, and 5.45x39
PTR-91
Mossberg 500 12ga
Ruger PC9
Ruger 10/22
Some Ruger P-series handguns
Ruger MKII handgun
Keltec P11 for easy CCW
Taurus PT1911

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## muabhcirk

> You guys/gals need to get over to the firing line, ar15.com and Glock Talk to help out... There are some very strong opinions there we are trying to sway. A few very devoted Ron Paul supporters are making some headway, but you have to be non-confrontational with this group or they will turn on us in mass.
> 
> http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/
> http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=137
> http://glocktalk.com/forums/



Honestly, I think your energy is better spent in the real world.  I read arfcom a bit, and I don't think you'll do anything but waste time there.  Let them spout off their nonsense on the forums all they want, while you actually do some good and get Ron's name out to people that haven't already made up their (biased) minds.  Maybe the other two forums are different, but my feeling is that its mostly a lost cause.

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## 1000-points-of-fright

> A couple AR-15s (my favorite overall in my collection)
> AK's in 7.62x39, 5.56x45, and 5.45x39
> PTR-91
> Mossberg 500 12ga
> Ruger PC9
> Ruger 10/22
> Some Ruger P-series handguns
> Ruger MKII handgun
> Keltec P11 for easy CCW
> Taurus PT1911


How's that PTR-91?  I've been thinking of getting an HK clone.  I can't decide between the PTR and the Vector.  Vector comes in SBR size, so they are ahead so far.

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## qednick

My carry weapon is a Walther PPK/S in .380 - I like it's small frame and slim time-tested design.

My wife has a Beretta 84 in .380 but doesn't carry (no CCW)

I also have a Beretta 92FS, a Beretta .32 Bobcat, two rifles (a little .22LR and a 30-06) plus a nice 12ga Shotgun

I bought our 14 year old daughter a 9 shot Taurus .22 revolver to use at the range. She loves to shoot.

BTW, I'm a Brit and moved here in 2000. I particularly value having the right to bear arms more so than many Americans because we Brits have already been disarmed once and I've lived through the consequences which my countrymen are still suffering.
It makes my heart sad when I come across Americans who don't like/value the right to bear arms.

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## muabhcirk

> How's that PTR-91?  I've been thinking of getting an HK clone.  I can't decide between the PTR and the Vector.  Vector comes in SBR size, so they are ahead so far.


I like the PTR, but I'll give you a quick summary of my experience with it.  I bought it this year, new, through a local dealer.  Took it to the range to zero it in, and ran out of windage adjustment with it 3 inches left at 50 yards.  I had to send it back to the mfg and they said it required a new barrel to fix.  Got it back and it seems to be good now.  They were a little slow to fix it, and I feel that it never should have had that issue to begin with.   It has functioned fine so far other than the initial problem so I'm now happy with it.  I believe the Vector you're referring to is an HK51 clone right?  I prefer the look of the 91 with the longer handguard, but if you want to actually get an SBR you'll have less choice in which way you go.

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## 1000-points-of-fright

Thanks.  I got another question for you.  Having never fired or seen an HK up close, what's up with that charging handle?  Does it cycle with every shot and if so doesn't that make your thumb placement very important?  Also, does it lock back on an empty mag?

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## steph3n

I don't have any handguns....yet.

I have an SKS, numerous .22 and 22mags, a japanese 7.7 LONG rifle, numerous shotguns with accompanying barrel for different chokes then I bows, and novelty weapons like blowguns and other such nonsense

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## muabhcirk

> Thanks.  I got another question for you.  Having never fired or seen an HK up close, what's up with that charging handle?  Does it cycle with every shot and if so doesn't that make your thumb placement very important?  Also, does it lock back on an empty mag?


The charging handle does not cycle with the action.  It pushes back on the bolt carrier if you manually cycle it, but the two are not mechanically linked.  If they were, that gun would be a thumb breaker for sure (probably more like thumb ripper-offer). They don't hold open on an empty mag unfortunately.  I saw somewhere that somebody had modified one to have bolt hold open, but I don't think its an easy modification.

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## xd9fan

guess

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## zcopley

Is this just a thread to make Ron Paul supporters look like gun nuts?

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## muabhcirk

> Is this just a thread to make Ron Paul supporters look like gun nuts?


Probably not, but gun nuts should support Ron Paul

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## Ozwest

People who are involved in Gun clubs and hunt for sport are the most responsible people you will ever meet.

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## Ozwest

And hunters are the most respectful and knowledgeable people concerning environmental issues you would ever want to meet.

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## Ozwest

Sustainable Ecology.

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## 1000-points-of-fright

> Is this just a thread to make Ron Paul supporters look like gun nuts?


I hope to be surrounded by gun nuts if I'm ever confronted by one nut with a gun.

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## krott5333

i carry a bulgy mak

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## john_anderson_ii

> Is this just a thread to make Ron Paul supporters look like gun nuts?


I suppose this is a fair enough question if it's asked by someone who was raised in an environment or area where firearms are outlandish, exotic, and only carried by figures of authority.  There are a *lot* of people who were raised differently.  Firearms have been in my house and used for hunting, defense and recreation every since I was born.  To at least 80 million registered gun owners in this country, guns and talking about them are not exotic or taboo.  

Once one realizes that there a lot of 'gun nuts' in this country, and that quite a few of them like Ron Paul, the 'gun nut' label isn't very derogatory.  It's just like a gear head or an RC plane hobbyist.  I like marksmanship and I'm of the opinion that's its a perfectly justifiable hobby.   

We like firearms, we like shooting them, talking about them, buying new ones, modifying old ones, etc.  I don't see any reason to be ashamed of that or to keep it quiet.  The more we 'gun nuts' who cluster around Ron Paul, the more 'gun nuts' we attract.  Pretty soon we might possibly have every NRA member, hunter, sportsman & cowboy shooter lined up to vote in the primaries.  How are the 'gun nuts' who don't know about RP yet going to find out about him if not from another 'gun nut'?

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## ChickenHawk

> To at least 80 million registered gun owners in this country, guns and talking about them are not exotic or taboo.


I don't think that is accurate. As far as I know Hawaii is the only state that requires all guns be registered and there is only a 2 or 3 other states that require hand gun registration. The federal government requires registration of Machine guns, short rifles and shotguns. I don't think that adds up to 80 millon registered owners. There is probably 80 millon gun owners though.

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## integrity

Guns??? What guns? oh those guns. they fell in a lake when my boat overturned.

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## john_anderson_ii

> I don't think that is accurate. As far as I know Hawaii is the only state that requires all guns be registered and there is only a 2 or 3 other states that require hand gun registration. The federal government requires registration of Machine guns, short rifles and shotguns. I don't think that adds up to 80 millon registered owners. There is probably 80 millon gun owners though.


I never verified this number, but it is generally accepted as the number of gun owners in the U.S.  Google "80 million gun owners" and there are all sorts of hits on documentation to back this up.   I really don't think it's "registered" as in licensed.  It might be 80 million people have had a gun purchase related instant background check run though.  Like I said, I'm not really sure where this number came from, but it's the number that the NRA and GOA generally accepts.   

The real number of gun owners might be considerably higher given that some people may have guns that have been gifted or handed down to them or were otherwise obtained before agencies started tracking these figures.

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## maeqFREEDOMfree

I just bought my dad a Mossberg 590 for his christmas present this year :-) nice gun!

I currently have a springfield XD 40 (.40 cal with a 4") I love this gun. My dad bought a Glock 23 when i got mine and even he admits he can shoot straighter with the XD.

my long gun is a CETME.... not too excited about it and recently learned that some gunsmiths wont even work on these guns because of problems they have with them. I had some issues with it and want someone to look at it who knows more than i do before i shoot it again...

so i'm looking for another rifle... I'm leaning towards an AK but would love another 308 rifle... any suggestions?

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## Madcat455

> I'm leaning towards an AK but would love another 308 rifle... any suggestions?


Yeah....

Get an AK in .308 caliber...LOL.

Saiga makes a AK in .308, I just got a .410 shotgun version... Badass is an understatment

http://www.topglock.com/item/56175_S...__308_218.aspx

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## muabhcirk

Folks, when you look at gun owners and gun control, don't forget that the right to keep and bear arms is about more than hunting, collecting, personal defense, or having a fun hobby.  Its also about keeping one last check on a tyrannical government.  The second amendment is what helps to guarantee the freedoms acknowledged in the other amendments.

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## nunaem

I just have a Ruger 10/22.. But I'd like to get a HK USP once I save up and get a CCW permit

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## qednick

Just added to my collection: bought a Bersa Thunder .380 Concealed Carry today. It's the same as the regular Bersa Thunder but has rounded off sights, etc. so they don't snag on your clothing when drawing.

If anyone is considering a good little CCW weapon I highly recommend the Bersa. They're excellent value for money at around $270 brand new and they shoot well. The only disappointment for me is that it only comes with one mag so I've had to order a spare 8 round mag.

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## jumpyg1258

Im packin a semi-automatic rubber band shooter everyday, oh wait thats my hand.

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## qednick

> I hope to be surrounded by gun nuts if I'm ever confronted by one nut with a gun.


Once went to a gun show with a friend but the parking lot was so packed I had to park about 2 blocks away in a nasty looking run-down street. When we got out the car I said "do you think my car's gonna be OK here?" and my friend said "do you think anyone would be stupid enough to break into a car near a gun show?". We just laughed and walked on inside.

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## Madcat455

> Just added to my collection: bought a Bersa Thunder .380 Concealed Carry today. It's the same as the regular Bersa Thunder but has rounded off sights, etc. so they don't snag on your clothing when drawing.
> 
> If anyone is considering a good little CCW weapon I highly recommend the Bersa. They're excellent value for money at around $270 brand new and they shoot well. The only disappointment for me is that it only comes with one mag so I've had to order a spare 8 round mag.


Hey.. I have one of those for the Wife.  Bersa 380dlx. 

It's a nice gun, shoots good.  I've only put about 50rds through the wifes, but it seems to like to jam as the clip hits the last 2 or 3 rounds.  

Not sure if it was the ammo, or not.  I have different ammo I'm trying... just haven't made it to the range yet could just need to be "broken in"

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## ChickenHawk

I don't think it is a good idea to trust a gun to save your life unless you have put 500-1000 rounds through it and it has proven reliable. This is especially true with cheaper guns because they tend to be less reliable and pickier about the types of ammo used. Personally I wouldn't carry a gun for self defense unless it was a brand that had proven itself in military/LE. Brands like Glock, S&W, H&K, Sig, etc. I'm not saying cheaper guns can't be good but I wouldn't trust them with my life.

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## qednick

> Hey.. I have one of those for the Wife.  Bersa 380dlx. 
> 
> It's a nice gun, shoots good.  I've only put about 50rds through the wifes, but it seems to like to jam as the clip hits the last 2 or 3 rounds.  
> 
> Not sure if it was the ammo, or not.  I have different ammo I'm trying... just haven't made it to the range yet could just need to be "broken in"


First, you need to change your ammo to the good stuff. Make sure you never put lead through it. Always buy the good jacketed rounds such as Winchester or Remmington - not the cheap Russian lead crap that'll leave lead shavings in the rifling, breach and clip and make it much harder to clean.

Second, put a lot more than 50 rounds through it on the range!! Make sure you're comfortable shooting and handling the weapon and that the weapon is reliable.

Finally, make sure you keep the weapon clean and well oiled.

I haven't met any Bersa Thunder owner yet that isn't happy with their purchase!   Which is why I bought mine.

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## qednick

> I don't think it is a good idea to trust a gun to save your life unless you have put 500-1000 rounds through it and it has proven reliable. This is especially true with cheaper guns because they tend to be less reliable and pickier about the types of ammo used. Personally I wouldn't carry a gun for self defense unless it was a brand that had proven itself in military/LE. Brands like Glock, S&W, H&K, Sig, etc. I'm not saying cheaper guns can't be good but I wouldn't trust them with my life.


I totally agree!

Another option is to carry a revolver instead of a semi-automatic. There are pros and cons to each.

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## Madcat455

> First, you need to change your ammo to the good stuff. Make sure you never put lead through it. Always buy the good jacketed rounds such as Winchester or Remmington - not the cheap Russian lead crap that'll leave lead shavings in the rifling, breach and clip and make it much harder to clean.
> 
> Second, put a lot more than 50 rounds through it on the range!! Make sure you're comfortable shooting and handling the weapon and that the weapon is reliable.
> 
> Finally, make sure you keep the weapon clean and well oiled.
> 
> I haven't met any Bersa Thunder owner yet that isn't happy with their purchase!   Which is why I bought mine.


That's what I figured... but it was jacketed ammo.  The only time I've gotten lead was for my AK, and that was by mistake(bought a case, and it didn't specify).

The next round of ammo for the bersa isn't "rounded" like what jammed.  It's more pointed, hopfully it'll chamber better. The rounded bullets allways caught about ¼ in behind the tip.   

The bersa isn't mine... it's the wifes so I have to get her to the range with me.  I have 500 rds to help her get aquainted with it

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## qednick

> That's what I figured... but it was jacketed ammo.  The only time I've gotten lead was for my AK, and that was by mistake(bought a case, and it didn't specify).
> 
> The next round of ammo for the bersa isn't "rounded" like what jammed.  It's more pointed, hopfully it'll chamber better. The rounded bullets allways caught about ¼ in behind the tip.   
> 
> The bersa isn't mine... it's the wifes so I have to get her to the range with me.  I have 500 rds to help her get aquainted with it


Round tip jackets do occasionally jam but when it's the last one or two in the clip it's usually either a seating issue or it could be the clip itself. Have you tried a different clip? Good luck!!

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## Madcat455

> Round tip jackets do occasionally jam but when it's the last one or two in the clip it's usually either a seating issue or it could be the clip itself. Have you tried a different clip? Good luck!!



Not yet... have only shot it the once, haven't had time to get to the range since.  All my babies are feeling neglected.

Can't find spare clips for it either, they all take the newer style with that "tear drop" finger extention.

The clip on this one looks completley different, I'm not finding any like it  But only passivley looking though.

----------


## xd9fan

> Is this just a thread to make Ron Paul supporters look like gun nuts?


Guns equel liberty.....Cant have one without the other.

You will never hear me complain about too much 1st Amendment expression going on or that 4th Amendment(that was a good one)...Its all or nothing

----------


## Firehouse26

I possess the following.....Glock .40 cal with 15 round clip.  Most beloved firearm:  Winchester Model 21!!!! In addition, assorted double barrels from Ruger 4/10, .20, .12, and good old Ruger carbine .22 with Tasco scope.  And an Ithaca .12 gauge and the Remington 870.

----------


## plp

My daily carry is a Colt Govt. Model 70 .380 ACP, the wife's is a Charter Arms .38 Special Off Duty (knew it was love at first sight when she wanted to go to the dirt pit and shoot for a first date. Her dad came along and apparently I passed the test) 

Home protection are a Remington 870 12 ga. and a Saiga .410, both with laser sights. The Remmie has been in the same place in the house, fully loaded, since my kids were in diapers. 

We have a bevy of Rugar 1022's, not really sure how many as one of my sons is constantly swapping, selling, and modding these. Mine is stock, old school, no mods, and I can still do a respectable grouping at 200 yards with iron sights. 

Long guns are limited to a Ruger Mark II .3006, a GREAT Argentinean Mauser 7mm carbine with the original Leica scope from 1939, and a Remington 700 .223 that was acquired as trade goods from one of my son's swap meets.

----------


## amy31416

I'm pretty new to guns, but we have a Mossberg Persuader that's modified to look real freakin' scary.

Since I was held up at gunpoint, I've been weighing the pros and cons of getting a permit to carry a gun, but I still hesitate because a) being female, it might be too easy to take the gun from me and use it on me, b) if I had a gun when I was held up and tried to use it, it could have gone much worse and c) I really don't want my name on some government list.

That being said, I have done some research and would go with a revolver. We went to a shooting range and I shot a S&W .38 caliber and an HK 9mm. I liked the revolver better and was far more accurate with it, but it actually bruised my hand from the recoil. So I think I'd go with a larger gun if I choose to purchase a handgun.

What are your thoughts?

----------


## qednick

> I'm pretty new to guns, but we have a Mossberg Persuader that's modified to look real freakin' scary.
> 
> Since I was held up at gunpoint, I've been weighing the pros and cons of getting a permit to carry a gun, but I still hesitate because a) being female, it might be too easy to take the gun from me and use it on me, b) if I had a gun when I was held up and tried to use it, it could have gone much worse and c) I really don't want my name on some government list.
> 
> That being said, I have done some research and would go with a revolver. We went to a shooting range and I shot a S&W .38 caliber and an HK 9mm. I liked the revolver better and was far more accurate with it, but it actually bruised my hand from the recoil. So I think I'd go with a larger gun if I choose to purchase a handgun.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Believe me... you're better off carrying than not!!

Revolvers tend to be more reliable. They won't jam up on you as easily as a semi-auto. But they are harder to reload and you tend to get less shots in one go.

A bigger/heavier weapon of the same caliber will reduce recoil but recoil will be the last thing going through your mind if you're attacked.

A bigger/heavier weapon is less practical for concealed carry.

----------


## amy31416

> Believe me... you're better off carrying than not!!
> 
> Revolvers tend to be more reliable. They won't jam up on you as easily as a semi-auto. But they are harder to reload and you tend to get less shots in one go.
> 
> A bigger/heavier weapon of the same caliber will reduce recoil but recoil will be the last thing going through your mind if you're attacked.
> 
> A bigger/heavier weapon is less practical for concealed carry.


The reliability factor is what's steered me more towards the revolver, but you're right-the semi-automatic will get more shots. Though I found the S&W .38 easier to reload than the HK, unless you just have clips loaded and on your person.

I'd also agree that I'd probably stick with a smaller gun, despite the recoil. As you probably know, they make "bullets" filled with shot, like a shotguns bullets so accuracy isn't as much of an issue. My thought was, if I get a revolver, the first shot that's loaded is one of those, then the rest of the bullets are hollow-point. Just thinking that might be good to dissuade, not kill if I should need it. Then the second shot, obviously, would be for serious stopping power.

What's your thoughts on single vs. double action? Hammer vs. hammerless? If you had to arm an inexperienced person like me, what would you recommend?

----------


## john_anderson_ii

Modern semi-autos, like a Glock or HK are extremely reliable.  (Forgive me if I left out your favorite brand )

The general rule of thumb in regards to recoil/caliber is this:  Carry the biggest caliber that you can safely and comfortable handle.  If you can put a good group up with a 9mm, but not .40 caliber, carry the 9mm.  If the .38 is uncomfortable go with a .32.  

Well placed shots are more important than big holes.....but big holes certainly don't hurt your cause unless they don't strike the target.




> a) being female, it might be too easy to take the gun from me and use it on me


That's why a CCW permit to carry concealed is a must.  By very nature, no one will know you are carrying.  How would someone know they can take the gun and use it against you if they don't know you are carrying it?   That's why open carrying is pretty much a bad idea unless you are big scary looking guy.  Someone might see your gun and figure they want it more than you do.

So if it's concealed, and you are attacked.  You now have the choice of what to do.  You can hand over your wallet and purse, and never reach for your concealed gun and the attacker will be none the wiser.  Or you can choose to stand your ground and pull the gun.  Once you make the decision to use force you have to go all in.   I teach it like when you are approaching a stop light that may soon turn yellow.  You draw a mental line in your mind and if it turns yellow before that line you stop, if after you go through.  Carrying concealed offers you the chance to decide where that line is.




> I'd also agree that I'd probably stick with a smaller gun, despite the recoil. As you probably know, they make "bullets" filled with shot, like a shotguns bullets so accuracy isn't as much of an issue.


Accuracy is a big issue if your shots hit bystanders.  You may be forced to defend yourself in a mall parking lot or somewhere in a crowd.  Even though you are perfectly justifiable in defending yourself you will still be held accountable for stray shots.  Another case for practice, practice, practice.  Use hollow point, deforming & expanding ammunition.  These types of rounds carry a smaller chance of over penetration.  They are safer for bystanders, and that means safer for you.

----------


## AFM

Sicilian crossbow for long range

----------


## amy31416

> Modern semi-autos, like a Glock or HK are extremely reliable.  (Forgive me if I left out your favorite brand )
> 
> The general rule of thumb in regards to recoil/caliber is this:  Carry the biggest caliber that you can safely and comfortable handle.  If you can put a good group up with a 9mm, but not .40 caliber, carry the 9mm.  If the .38 is uncomfortable go with a .32.  
> 
> Well placed shots are more important than big holes.....but big holes certainly don't hurt your cause unless they don't strike the target.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why a CCW permit to carry concealed is a must.  By very nature, no one will know you are carrying.  How would someone know they can take the gun and use it against you if they don't know you are carrying it?   That's why open carrying is pretty much a bad idea unless you are big scary looking guy.  Someone might see your gun and figure they want it more than you do.
> ...


Thanks for the information and things to think about. Choosing to carry a concealed weapon is a rather big decision for me-I don't want to sound like an idiot, but I wasn't raised around guns.

----------


## qednick

> Thanks for the information and things to think about. Choosing to carry a concealed weapon is a rather big decision for me-I don't want to sound like an idiot, but I wasn't raised around guns.


Well you're getting some good advice here and everyone has to start somewhere. You'll find that most people will have personal preferences re. revolver vs. semi-auto, make, model, caliber and choice of ammo. 

What I would suggest is that you go to your local range and give them a rough idea of what you want. If they're a good range, they'll have a selection of firearms that you can rent and try out before making your mind up. Try as many as you can. You'll get to feel the size, weight and recoil and that may help you make your mind up before choosing.

John is absolutely correct on the caliber issue.

----------


## Christian for Israel

with all due respect to everyone here, i feel compelled to expose a bit of folklore to the light of truth...shotguns are NOT the best home defense weapon out there. in fact, they are far inferior to a good pistol in an acceptable caliber. now, before all the shotgun lovers start flaming me, please hear me out. 

if the home defense scenario you envision is one where you get into a closet or safe room, waiting for the bad guy to come to you, the shotgun loaded and pointing at the door ready to fire, the weapon is adequate for defense. however, if you're the type (like i am) to go forth and ensure your home and children are safe and that any potential problem is dealt with as soon as possible, the shotgun and in fact ANY long gun is going to be less than effective. 

before i get into why this is so, let my first address some of the reasons people give for liking the shotgun. first off, they usually point out that, if the first load is light birdshot, a miss isn't likely to penetrate a wall and kill someone in the next room. this is true, but that is also the problem. most interior walls in a modern home are comprised of 2 sheets of soft sheetrock with dead air between them. any round fired that will not penetrate the wall also won't penetrate the perp that has forced his way into your home. now, in a best case scenario that's not a problem as the perp will fall down in pain and cry for the ambulance. but planning for the best case scenario is a deadly mistake. in all things, pray for the best and plan for the worst...that's the only way to prevent rude surprises.

the worst case in this scenario is a perp who's pumped up on a drug. several drugs, like PCP, prevent the user from feeling pain. they also act as a disconnect in the brain, blocking the ability to reason and reducing the individual to instinctive 'fight or flight' mode. in such a case the perp will irrationally attack and keep attacking, regardless of the amount of damage he receives, until he is dead. even if he kills you he will continue to dessecrate your body until distracted by another perceived threat, which he will then attack as well. 

in this worst case scenario, shooting someone like this with birdshot won't stop him, it'll just make him all the more enraged and determined to kill you. 

the next myth is that simply the sound of the shotgun being chambered will mysteriously fill the perp with fear, causing him to flee into the night. this might be so of law abiding folks not bent on destruction, but for the hopped up perp in your living room, it simply gives away your position. a determined man, intent on attack, can cross most rooms in less than a second. if you spend that second chambering a round in your shotgun the perp will be on you before you can even get the FIRST shot off. he will take your ghotgun away from you and beat you to death with it, before continuing on to rape and kill the rest of your family. please folks, leave theatrics to hollywood. 

another myth about shotguns is that, because the shot spreads, you don't have to actually aim but instead can simply point it in the general direction of the trouble and pull the trigger. the truth is, while shot does spread, it has to travel a little ways before it'll do so...20-25 yards at least. over the 15-20 foot width of rooms in most modern homes, that shot won't spread more than an inch or so. given that consideration, a shot not aimed is a shot missed, plain and simple. 

next is the 00 buck myth. i've heard folks claim that 00 buck is like being hit with 9 .30 caliber carbine bullets. the reality is quite different. buckshot consists of round pellets of soft lead. they are far inferior to carbine and even pistol bullets in performance. a 00 buck pellet weighs around half of what a .30 carbine bullet weighs. it is only moving, at most, 1200 feet per second at the muzzle as compared to 2000 fps for the carbine bullet. its round shape is not aerodynamic, meaning it slows quickly when flying through the air and much more quickly when it hits a body. certainly a person hit in the chest with a load of buckshot LOOKS bad, but in reality the pellets rarely penetrate enough to physically stop a hopped up attacker. the most a good hit with buckshot penetrates is 6 inches...half the distance of suitable pistol bullets. again, if the person hit is an honest citizen he's likely to fall to the ground screaming in pain, but the home intruder is as likely as not to be able to keep going after taking such a hit. and that's even if he takes a full chest shot...when confronting an intruder in your home, in the middle of the night in a dark house, with both of you moving around trying to kill the other, with you hopped up on adrenaline and him on who knows what, the chances of getting a full frontal shot like you would shooting paper at the range is a fantasy at best. taking all this into consideration, the ONLY load you want in a shotgun is a big fat slug (of course, then you really would have to aim ).

now for some facts on using a shotgun or ANY long gun to clear your home. first, as i said, if you intend to hide in the closet and wait for trouble to come to you, the shotgun is still an acceptable weapon, better than nothing certainly, and better than many other firearms such as .22 rifles and small caliber pistols. but if you intend to clear your home yourself, the long gun is more of a hinderance than a help. homes aren't designed to allow you to walk through hallways and doorways with 2+ feet of steel in your hands. consider the possibility that there is more than one invader. consider that they may be well aware that you're home and even that you're armed, and are laying in wait for you. remember, if you plan for the worst you won't be taken by surprise. now consider that you are awakened by a noise in the night. you were sleeping soundly and, when you awaken you aren't sure what caused it. you lie there for a second listening when you hear a noise from the living room. you quickly get up, struggle into your pants and grab your shotgun to go investigate. 

the noise that woke you was a group of three intruders breaking the window in your back door and letting themselves in. the second sound you heard was one of the perps bumping into an end table and muttering a curse, as the other two spread out through the house. by the time you struggle into your pants and go to investigate they're in position. you leave your bedroom and enter the hallway, your shotgun leveled and ready to mete justice to the invaders. as you move slowly down the hall you hear a door that you just passed open. you whirl around to confront the threat and the muzzle of the shotgun slams into the wall, digging a hole in it. as you struggle to free your weapon the invader slips a knife between your ribs and you fall to the floor, dead. 

alternately, aware of the size of the weapon you proceed down the hall with the muzzle raised vertically. as you enter the living room the perp there has heard your approach and is ready just inside the doorway. as you attempt to bring the gun down and into action he grabs the barrel with one hand, rendering it useless, and shoves a foot of steel into your chest with the other. again you die. 

now, if instead you had a handgun for home defense, maneuvering around your home with it leveled and ready for action isn't a problem. if you do manage to hit a wall as you turn you can still recover almost immediately and much more likely to get a shot or three off. even if the perp grabs hold of it the first round will still go off, digging a hole deep inside the perp's body. of course, a pistol round will penetrate walls, but isn't that what you want in the first place...a round that will penetrate? the answer to missing the perp and hitting someone in another room is to practice, practice, practice. nothing else will make you more likely to hit an intruder and less likely to injure a family member.

----------


## Christian for Israel

oh yes...my collection. 

my carry pistol is a rock island armory 1911 in .45acp. this i carry everywhere, even at home. along with it are two spare mags. there is never a time...ever...when these are more than 10 feet from me. 

my wife carries a taurus model 65 .357 magnum. it, along with two speed loaders is with her at all times. 

for long guns we have a .30 carbine with 3-30 and 8-15 rd mags, loaded. it's her SHTF rifle.

i have several choices for long arm, including an 8mm mauser, a K31 swiss rifle in 7.5x55, a Yugo SKS, a .50 cal muzzle loader and a glenfield .22LR. i also have a mountain eagle .22LR pistol in my bug out bag for emergency hunting.

 i'm hoping to add to this collection in the near future. among those additions are an M1A and 20-20rd mags, a couple of kel-tec sub2000's in .40 for our bug out bags, a couple more SKS's for caching, along with a couple more RIA 1911's, and then i can start on my passion...WWII and earlier military arms. in particular i have my eye on a martini-henry in .577/.450 that saw service in the boer war.

----------


## Dequeant

> with all due respect to everyone here, i feel compelled to expose a bit of folklore to the light of truth...shotguns are NOT the best home defense weapon out there. in fact, they are far inferior to a good pistol in an acceptable caliber. now, before all the shotgun lovers start flaming me, please hear me out.


A shotgun's "bark" is far worse than its bite.  According to a poll on CNN a while back (we all know how reliable those are  ) a pump shotgun being pumped is the most widely recognized sound.  It's  by far one of the most intimidating.

Since 80% of crimes stopped by people with guns do not include shots being fired.....that makes the shotgun a very powerful weapon.  Not to mention, try to sell your argument to Joe Horn.

----------


## Christian for Israel

as i said, that's best case. 80% chance means there's still a 20% chance that shots will have to be fired. always pray that the time you actually have to actively defend your home will be a best case scenario, but if you're not prepared for it to be worst case you may indeed be in for a rude awakening.

----------


## xd9fan

12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice.  We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.

Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.

If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.

Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.


Number 1 buckshot has the potential to produce more effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck, without the accompanying risk of over-penetration. The IWBA believes, with very good reason, that number 1 buckshot is the shotshell load of choice for quickly stopping deadly criminal violence.

End Notes
The term "Magnum" when applied to shotshells means "more shot."   Magnum shotshells usually propel their pellets at a lower velocity than a standard shotshell.

Shotgun barrel length does not affect our shotshell recommendions.

References
Cotey, Gus J.: "Number 1 Buckshot, the Number 1 Choice." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 10-18, 1996.

MacPherson, Duncan: "Technical Comment on Buckshot Loads." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 19-21, 1996.

MacPherson, Duncan: Bullet Penetration, Ballistic Publications, El Segundo, California, 1994.

DiMaio, Vincent J.M.: Gunshot Wounds, Elsevier Science Publishing Co., Inc., New York, New York, 1985, pp. 163-208.

----------


## JGalt

United States Rifle, Cal .30 M1 (Garand)
United States Model of 1917 (US Enfield)
SMLE No. 1 Mk III* (Lithgow)
Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk I (Maltby)
Kar98k (Mauser Werke)
Mosin-Nagant M44 (Izhevsk)

I'm a fan of rifles, but I'm looking into an M1897 trench shotgun.

----------


## DerekinBama

Standard daily carry for this Bama boy:

Customized Browning Hi Power (Cylinder & Slide ambi extended safety, hammer & sear with trigger job, no magazine disconnect, etc)

2 extra 13 round magazines

Sure fire 6P flashlight with 120 lumen bulb and horizontal holster (though I want one of the new Fenix lights at 200 lumines)

Desperina Model 10 kambit knife

Walther PPK or TT-33 as backup gun, situation depending....

If the above does not solve the problem then it's on to the rifle in the vehicle, which will be either an AR-15, AKM, AK74M, or transferable AC556 depending on what mood I'm in.

----------


## DerekinBama

> I don't think it is a good idea to trust a gun to save your life unless you have put 500-1000 rounds through it and it has proven reliable. This is especially true with cheaper guns because they tend to be less reliable and pickier about the types of ammo used. Personally I wouldn't carry a gun for self defense unless it was a brand that had proven itself in military/LE. Brands like Glock, S&W, H&K, Sig, etc. I'm not saying cheaper guns can't be good but I wouldn't trust them with my life.


Now, we are getting into skills as well as gear....so let me make a few comments, FWIW...

I would say 90% + of all gun owners do not know how to "run" their weapons. By that I mean how to clear malfunctions & do reloads immediately when necessary without thinking about it or having to look at the weapon. This only comes from practicing malfunction and reload drills, and does not come from recreational range shooting. The ability to keep your weapons running and ready for action, even in total darkness, should be paramount.

Someone who studies statistics related to shootouts and gunfighting will find out they should also practice one-handed manipulations and reloads, as there is a very high percentage of wounds to arms and hands in a gunfight. To prove this out, have your buddy pickup the TV remote and point it at you like he was shooting at you. Now, if you were shooting at him, what is in the way of his torso and head?

There have been many documented cases of agents losing their life due to "giving up" once wounded in the primary shooting hand or arm, as they had never practiced support hand shooting or manipulations and did not know what to do.

May sound like "high-speed" stuff to your average gun owner, but I consider it part of basic or medium-at-best level skills.

Trigger reset is another skill that most do not get, but need to.

Whether a hunter or a CCW gunfighting practitioner, confidence in abilty and gear means EVERYTHING! If you do not have total confidence in your ability to place the shot where you need it (with the gear on you) then you have no business in the woods, or carrying in public. 

Price does not equal reliability. Expensive guns jam like any others. Knowing your weapon is reliable comes from practice, and so does the necessary confidence. I have tried and trained with many different types of weapons and for a CCW piece I keep coming back to a BHP, which I would say is in the medium price range.

I know of more than one person who has bought an expensive "combat pistol" and never carries it because it is not practical enough to carry. I say a Walther PPK in 32acp on your side is better than a Kimber 45acp in your car, when you need it. If it's too big for you to always have it on you, then that's not the best CCW for you.

You must practice some with your street carry loads to make sure they feed reliably. If you practice with cheap ball and then carry with "flying ashtrays" (HPs) you may find that your pistol doesn't like the HPs. You don't want to find this out when you need the weapon to save your life.

Change out your mags every few months. Rotate them so you don't have the same mags loaded all the time. I have extra mag springs for all my regularly used/carried pieces.

Gear is important, but there is no replacement for skill. You can tell the hard-core from wanna-bes in the training community by what they talk. The hard-core talk skillsets and tactics, while the wanna-bes talk gear.

I share this not to demean anyone, but to be "well-regulated" as meant by the Founding Fathers, we need to be equipped and trained for a worst-case scenario. That means gunfighting or combat, and not recreational target shooting.

----------


## Kenn L

My daily CCW piece is a Kel-Tec .380ACP.

It's light, small, and always in a handy location.

----------


## Gunpartsguy

To reply to the posts about shotguns. When I talk to novices...I recommend a 12 gauge pump shotgun consistently. Why? Because it's better than nothing. More effective than a pistol with little/no training. And with 00 buck and a modified choke will cut a man in half at 10-15 feet. 

Unless you have a HUGE house. This is very effective. Most firefights for civilians happen at less than 21 feet and in low light. In a dark house. Your scared (Who wouldn't be?) lot's of pucker factor going on...The shotgun is consistent and effective. If somebody is in my home and hears a shotgun being racked. It's the last thing they will ever hear. 

If you have training/experience with a handgun. And are truly confident with it...then by all means. Use one.  If your a novice and have to have a handgun. A revolver is best. You can be effective with less training. An auto pistol is a different beast and requires much practice to clear jams/malfunctions quickly and effectively.

As a very experienced handgunner......My first go to is a double barrel 18" dual trigger shotgun.  00 buck 2.5" magnums. It's silent and fast to load. And is extremely reliable. And is also devastating at the ranges in my home. An intruder will not survive for long. 

At close ranges, a shotgun will always be my first choice if available. 

As far as CCW......45 ACP auto. I have many of them. 1911's mostly. I prefer my Ruger 97 for carry. Easy to carry SOB. (Small of back) light enough to keep my pants from falling when I have to pee. Very reliable and accurate enough. Rounded edges and low profile rounded edges on the sights to prevent hanging up. The wife uses a revolver. She's very good with it too! 

Otherwise. If in danger, and I get to my rifles...somebody will be in some serious doo doo. But I won't get into details about those. Let's just say that they'll punch level 3 body armor up to 100 yds and are extremely effective, reliable, fast loading and fast firing. (Semi auto) 

Say goodbye to the bad guys!

----------


## skeet

It is good to see so many gun owners here. I won't list my arsenal, but my favorite home defence weapons are: 12 gague mossberg (500) with folding stock for tight areas and turtling, and a Rossi 38 for room to room. I choose a double action revolver to avoid jamming or other malfunctions that could happen.

----------


## AFM

Tactical nuclear strike
RPG
UH-60 mounted 3 barrel minigun

----------


## SPmachina033

Laser Rifle

----------


## TruckinMike

I use a turret mounted XM-196 in 7.62x51. ( mounted on top of my sleeper)
 I use a tire thumper to make my way back to the truck.

Truckinmike

----------


## thuja

> I have a pitch fork and an axe.
> My rights are INFRINGED.


i have an All Clad 3qt saucepan. it's a lifestyle.

----------


## Charles Wilson

Just a word of caution.

Folks do you remember Waco and Ruby Ridge? I would be very careful about listing my fire power. Talking guns and other weapons is one thing but listing those that you own is something else. I have no doubt that the Feds mine data from all web sites. If push comes to shove in this country you will be the first on their list as far as rounding up weapons is concerned. I hope it never comes to that but you never know.

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## TruckinMike

Whats funny is in Texas is that its legal for me to carry a pistol in my glove box -- without a license. But if i'm caught with a billy club, sword, etc, I can be charged with a felony. The second amendment didn't say anything about non-firearm weapons. Bummer ---  They underestimated the potential tyranny of government.

TM

----------


## RPFP

3 - 12 gauge shotguns, 7mm, 30-6, .  I like HnK pistols.  I had a .40 HnK.

----------


## 762x54r

> I've got a Mosin-Nagant 91/30 which fires the massive 7.62x54R....



Good rifle.  Get a M44 and get a  long eye relief scope on it.  
-----------------------------------
CCW daily carry kahr pm9 and occasionally in the summer I carry a keltec p32

We have lots of shotguns, rifles, and handguns.  Everyone in my family shoots regularly...even the seven yr. old

----------


## Andrew-Austin

Well I recently got a pistol.... Its nothing fancy but its the best I can do right now.

----------


## Nicketas

I like cookies.

----------


## tommyzDad

> Stop Listing What You Own On The Internet You Big Dummies.
> 
> Close This Thread.


How about I just show that I'm ready. For all comers.

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## john_anderson_ii

> Stop Listing What You Own On The Internet You Big Dummies.
> 
> Close This Thread.


Take off your tin foil hat for a second.   Some of us live in areas and states where a man walking into Circle K with a sidearm is as common as bicycles on the street.  Where I live, we talk about guns and trade shooting tips at work....with our bosses.  Owning, shooting, talking, and being enthusiastic about guns is not anything to be secretive or ashamed of.  The ATF isn't going to come kicking down our door and demanding them because they _are legal_.

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## Kingfisher

When the Huckster became Gov. of Arkansas, some of us folks thought we oughta get ready...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRco6hY7rFE

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## pcosmar

> When the Huckster became Gov. of Arkansas, some of us folks thought we oughta get ready...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRco6hY7rFE


Thank you.
Seeing those kids having fun cheered my heart.
Looks like everyone had a good time.

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## tcindie

> When the Huckster became Gov. of Arkansas, some of us folks thought we oughta get ready...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRco6hY7rFE


I need to find a range like that somewhere around me.. I only know of a couple indoor ranges -- 25yard and such.. boo!

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## deanne

tommyzdad - that's a sweet graphic.

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## deanne

my weekend activities (Ruger vaqueros). 

if putting your single action revolvers to work and playing cowboy interests you, check out Cowboy Mounted Shooting!

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## deanne

(maybe this link will work?) apologies...

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## markj

I am an American citizen and I can't carry!

I am being denied my constitutional rights here!!!

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## tcindie

> I am an American citizen and I can't carry!
> 
> I am being denied my constitutional rights here!!!


What's the reasoning as to why you're not allowed to carry?

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## markj

Um, I live in Wisconsin. It's "illegal" to carry a firearm.

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## Allen72289

My grandmother's mossberg.

1949 walnut stock 20 gauge bolt action and polychoke.

I'll pro'lly get an ar soon and 7mm mag.

I'm looking into making my own crossbows..

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## mtuckner

I have a Remington 870 Express, an R700P w/IOR 6-24x50 scope, AR-15 carbine w/ACOG battlesight, Sprinfield XD40, and HK USP .45. 

If Ron doesn't make it in the White House, I will buy another AR-15 and fit it with an EOTECH. Plenty of ammo for all of em and then some more ammo. Me and my wife served in the USMC where I was an 0311 and she was an intel gal. We both know how to shoot. Taught my family to shoot.

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## steve254

I live in NYC.

I am disarmed.

Can't even get a permit.

Sigh

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## Ben Woods

M1Garand and an SKS

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## Fields

I got nothing.

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## Ibtz

Remington 870 Express LH. I'm hoping to get a Springfield XD45 here soon.

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## attackkatt

Colt AR15 A2
SW40 Sigma
.22 Berretta Bobcat
1939 Lugar 9mm
P38 WW2 Walther
1950 Russian SKS  never once  fired in 57 years



Buy Ammo Now!!!!!

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## attackkatt

Ttt

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## xj0hnx

For daily, Glock G26. Around the house Arsenal SLR-106U SBR, Yugoslavian M70AB2, and my .308 Savage Model 10 LE for reaching out and touching.

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## damoncrowe

Glock 19 or P-32 (Kel-Tec 32 Auto) >>>tiny<<<
DPMS Panther Arms AR 15 carbine, then assortment of rifles, shotguns, handguns.

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## madengr

Kimber Tactical Ultra II IWB with in a Brigade Gun Leather M11.

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## xj0hnx

> Kimber Tactical Ultra II IWB with in a Brigade Gun Leather M11.


Man I love Kimbers, such a quality piece of work. I couldn't believe it when my brother sold his

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## Vancouverite90210

A kids with guns primer   

*A kids with guns primer*

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## RedLightning

> A kids with guns primer   
> 
> *A kids with guns primer*


WTF does this have to do with the topic of the thread.

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## Matt

> A kids with guns primer   
> 
> *A kids with guns primer*


GTFO!  You're not going to convince anybody here with your feeble minded liberal claptrap.

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## Gil

Almost 30 years ago I sold all my guns in order to raise money for tuition.  My resolution for 2008 was 1) buy some gold to hold for the impending collapse of our currency and 2) buy some guns while it is still legal in order to fulfill my constitutional responsibility (standing militia).  I still kick myself for selling that Colt AR-15 way back when, but it went to a good home (a rancher in eastern CO) and I've heard that 223 ammo is not easy to come by these days.  I also had a shotgun, a 22 and a 54 cal muzzle loader (no handguns).  After some consideration and visiting with gun enthusiasts that I know and trust, I decided on a shotgun for personal protection at home and a handgun and rifle in 22 magnum (WMR).  The shotgun I chose is a Remington 870 (12 ga) w/ 18" barrel, pump action, 6-shot mag plus one in the chamber (00 buckshot).  You can buy kits for pistol grip, etc., but I think the 18" barrel really makes it useable even in a hallway.  I went with the 22 WMR because it is a great survival caliber (deadly and accurate) and it is relatively inexpensive to shoot (I like to practice and plink).  If you are looking for a new caliber for your daughter, you should consider the 22 WMR or possibly the 17 HMR.  You would appreciate the range and accuracy of the 17 HMR, but it's not as cost effective (rifle or ammo).  I went with the Remington 590 rifle because I wanted a semi-auto, and it is less $$ and a better shooter than the Ruger 10/22.  Like you, I prefer iron sights and this little rifle will deliver consistent 6" spreads at 100 yards (40 grain bullet, I find the lighter ones go too fast and tend to stray).  The handgun is an AMT AutoMag II because it is the only semi-auto in 22 WMR and it is fun to shoot.  I don't carry anything concealed or open except when in the field.  I don't intend to get a permit.  I think the day will come soon enough that it won't matter.  Now that I have prepared myself, I hope that I won't have to use the gold or the guns for other than my own personal enjoyment.  I know that the odds are against that happening, especially so if we don't get Ron Paul into the white house.

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## Gil

I purchase all my guns in the last 3 months.  Big Brother already knows what I have.

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