# Liberty Movement > Rand Paul Forum >  *LIVE STREAM* Rand Paul to end Patriot Act - Sunday 4pm EST

## eleganz

Get your popcorn ready, one of the key tenets of the Liberty movement may actually see a through and through success.  In all of our years, none of us could ever imagine that the Patriot Act could cease to exist.  This is what we've all been waiting for, this would be a tangible result of those that fight for liberty and sacrifice so much physically, financially, and digitally, to elect liberty candidates. 

Sunday 5/31
4pm EST - Senate session begins
12am - Patriot Act Expires

LIVE STREAM
1. http://www.c-span.org/video/?326227-...veillance&live
2. http://www.senate.gov/floor/


*A full play by play breakdown of all the scenarios that could go down:*
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/rand-...to-expire/?dcz



> Paul said his objections Sunday would serve as a precursor to a broad debate he would like to see about surveillance powers.
> But, to put it bluntly, if Senate leaders and the White House want to get the USA Freedom Act to the presidents desk before the Patriot Act authorities expire at midnight Sunday, theres only one route under the rules: cut a deal with Paul. And given his statement issued Saturday, it would seem Paul isnt budging.

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## asurfaholic

Dan coats is gonna stand up all night and make sure big government is not listening to your calls.

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## misconstrued

Coats and McCain are "filibustering" Rand.

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## MelissaCato

WOOT

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## eleganz

> Then why did Rand announce yesterday that he "will" force the expiration of the Patriot Act today?


I think Rand can get his debate and votes on his amendments without NOT letting the Patriot Act provisions expire. 

Read this : 



> Mitch McConnell expected to swallow USA Freedom Act
> The clock ticks to midnight on expiring PATRIOT Act surveillance authority.
> By MANU RAJU and SEUNG MIN KIM 5/31/15 8:17 AM EDT Updated 5/31/15 3:42 PM EDT
> The Senate is expected to advance the USA Freedom Act as soon as Sunday, despite the opposition from GOP leaders to the House-passed surveillance plan, according to several Republicans.
> 
> The ultimate question will be whether detractors like Rand Paul delay final passage of the bipartisan measure past midnight, when three key surveillance authorities expire. Few expect the presidential hopeful, who has called for a repeal of the PATRIOT Act, to relent.
> 
> In a rare Sunday session, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is expected to bring the House’s USA Freedom Act back up for another vote, despite his own opposition to the plan. The measure fell three votes short of breaking a filibuster recently, but Senate Republicans are expected this time to let the bill come to the floor for debate. Republicans hope they will be able to amend the plan and send it back to the House, but support for major changes at this late juncture would be an uphill climb.
> 
> ...


h  ttp://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/mitch-mcconnell-nsa-patriot-act-surveillance-118453.html?hp=t3_r

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## presence

pretty hectic here.  rand showing his skills w/ roberts rules

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## jct74

damn, WTF is going on???

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## eleganz

McCain seemed so obviously petty.

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## JJ2

All of his "friends" in the Senate and he can't even get it seconded?

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## Crashland

John McCain and Dan Coats are making my blood boil

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## Legend1104

I suggest McCain learn basic math and how to count time.

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## economics102

> Then why did Rand announce yesterday that he "will" force the expiration of the Patriot Act today?


It's hard for me to imagine Mitch wasn't in on any of this, because if that's the case it would give Mitch an easy excuse to not back Rand's campaign.

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## presence

quorum call  A procedure used in both houses of Congress to bring to the floor the number of Members of the House or Senate who must be present for it to conduct its business.  In the Senate, a Senator who has the floor can force a quorum call at almost any time by suggesting the absence of quorum. The presiding officer usually cannot count to determine whether or not a quorum is present. So when a Senator “suggests the absence of a quorum,” the presiding officer directs the Clerk to call the roll of Senators aloud by name. If a majority of Senators respond, a quorum is present and the Senate can return to its business.  However, a quorum call in the Senate usually has a different purpose: most often it is a strategic move that is used to delay proceedings for a variety of reasons — for example, to conduct informal negotiations on or off the Senate floor, or to await a Senator who is expected to make a speech or propose an amendment. If the purpose of a quorum call actually is to bring a majority of Senators to the floor, it is known as a “live” quorum call.  A quorum call in the House seeks to bring a majority of Members to the floor to record their presence after the absence of a quorum has been established. In the House, a Member makes a point of order that a quorum is not present, usually only when a vote is taking place. The Speaker (or the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole) then counts to determine if a quorum is present. If a majority of Members fail to respond to a quorum call, the House must adjourn or take steps to secure the attendance of enough Members to constitute a quorum.

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## economics102

> Then why did Rand announce yesterday that he "will" force the expiration of the Patriot Act today?


It's hard for me to imagine Mitch wasn't in on any of this, because if that's the case it would give Mitch an easy excuse to not back Rand's campaign.

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## 01000110

Coats and McCain making my blood boil.

Get 'em Rand!

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## radiofriendly

Will you kindly add my Live Blog to the links? http://iroots.org/2015/05/31/live-bl...d-patriot-act/

My blood is boiling with what they are just now trying to pull on us and Rand!

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## francisco

*Rand making me proud right now--speaking in ringing tones*

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## Crashland

Ohhh Rand sounds super pissed

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## enhanced_deficit

McCain is a fool.

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## radiofriendly

Will someone kindly add my Live Blog link? Here: http://iroots.org/2015/05/31/live-bl...d-patriot-act/

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## francisco

'I'm not going to take it any more!"

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## tommyrp12

GO RAND! I hope he actually has more than five minutes to speak.

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## staerker

Get it Rand.

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## eleganz

> Ohhh Rand sounds super pissed


Yup, the media is going to eat this all up.  Rand's team played this all very well.  There will be donations coming in once the media starts playing his epic speech over and over.

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## eleganz

> Ohhh Rand sounds super pissed


Yup, the media is going to eat this all up.  Rand's team played this all very well.  There will be donations coming in once the media starts playing his epic speech over and over.

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## afwjam

Alright Rand, love the passion, its real.

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## Legend1104

Why would cspan cut him off?

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## radiofriendly

Sorry about duplicate...using cell

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## Crashland

Ironic that Rand's speech to a completely EMPTY Senate chamber will be the most heard speech by the American people.

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## libertyplz

That was great, Rand was genuinely pissed off

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## Jan2017

That will be a good five-minute youtube of Rand that Rand got in before they recess.

McCain is gonna be fodder for jokes . . . Rand was a little too fast and quick-witted fer' ya' McCain ?

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## Jan2017

That will be a good five-minute youtube of Rand that Rand got in before they recess.

McCain is gonna be fodder for jokes . . . Rand was a little too fast and quick-witted fer' ya' McCain ?

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## dude58677

This is what we are going to see at the debates

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## afwjam

upvote the livestream thread on reddit:

http:/ /www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/37ztw7/us_senate_debate_on_nsa_surveillance_live_now_the/

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## afwjam

sorry

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## dude58677

This is what we will see at the debates!

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## chronicaust

When will they be back in Session?

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## chronicaust

When will they be back in session?

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## afwjam

sorry

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## afwjam

sorry

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## Crashland

> When will they be back in session?


It says they will be back approximately 6pm EST

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## Massachusetts

Here's Rand's five minute speech in all its glory. This is one of his best speeches ever.

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## francisco

This is Rand's _Mr. Smith Goes to Washington_ moment

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## Crashland

I think Rand earned an extra something for this.

*Thank you for your donation*  Thank you for your $25.00 contribution to my campaign. Your transaction ID is 2209275.

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## afwjam

Awesome!

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## Rudeman

I liked the little battle he had with McCain just to get those 5 minutes as well as the speech.

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## DP714

Absolutely Love it. This is a clip I will be circulating far and wide. The only thing better, in my opinion, is his senate floor speech/rant against Harry Reid's "nuclear option" in December 2013. This one here is easy to understand and should resonate with most people who breath oxygen.

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## eleganz

These Senators are retarded, they want to yap yap yap about doing the right thing and getting the proper legislation passed at the right time and they use this time to bull$#@! about how sorry they are for Joe Biden.  There is a time for legislation and there is a time for mourning outside of the session.

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## dude58677

> I liked the little battle he had with McCain just to get those 5 minutes as well as the speech.


That is why he'll get the nomination. He is one aggressive debator. It isn't just his platform his debating and speaking is what makes him special.

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## dude58677

> I liked the little battle he had with McCain just to get those 5 minutes as well as the speech.


That is why he'll get the nomination. He is one aggressive debator. It isn't just his platform his debating and speaking is what makes him special.

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## eleganz

> Here's Rand's five minute speech in all its glory. This is one of his best speeches ever.


If anybody has a Rand channel, can you please re-upload the video with some epic headline?  Something like "Rand Paul unleashes epic lecture on the Washington Machine" or whatever.

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## timosman

The tip of the iceberg revelation - NSA has records on all of them. Imagine all the skeletons in their closets. If they really want to continue they should let us issue FOIA requests for all their data to verify if they can be trusted. 

Btw, I find it funny when Rand complains about "the head of the intelligence agency" who lied and "still works here. Can't they assign him to some SuperPAC ?

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## timosman

The tip of the iceberg revelation - NSA has records on all of them. Imagine all the skeletons in their closets. If they really want to continue they should let us issue FOIA requests for all their data to verify if they can be trusted. 

Btw, I find it funny when Rand complains about "the head of the intelligence agency" who lied and "still works here. Can't they assign him to some SuperPAC ?

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## eleganz

> Here's Rand's five minute speech in all its glory. This is one of his best speeches ever.


If anybody has a Rand channel, can you please re-upload the video with some epic headline?  Something like "Rand Paul unleashes epic lecture on the Washington Machine" or whatever.

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## Crashland

FYI -- the video in the first CSPAN link has ended.
Part 2 will be starting momentarily here: http://www.c-span.org/video/?326227-...a-surveillance

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## twomp

rEVOLution is happening right before our eyes.... #standwithrand

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## Carlybee

Is there a tube of the exchange with McCain?

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## timosman

> rEVOLution is happening right before our eyes.... #standwithrand


Do not get too confident, they are playing us for fools. This is too easy.

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## timosman

> rEVOLution is happening right before our eyes.... #standwithrand


Do not get too confident, they are playing us for fools. This is too easy.

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## Massachusetts

https://youtu.be/2LGVflk4Pww

Rand vs. McCain

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## GunnyFreedom

I blew up fedbook and twitter on this; missed the RPFs discussion this time, have to go back and read the thread

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## jct74

back live on senate floor, McConnell speaking

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## libertyplz



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## afwjam

> What are they voting on right now?


To limit debate on the patriot act.

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## afwjam

> What are they voting on right now?


To limit debate on the patriot act.

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## Bastiat's The Law

Rubio voted no.

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## specsaregood

Is this what happened?   The chair incorrectly ruled that time had expired and that Randal couldn't speak because McCain objected.  So Randal called for a Quorum call; then after the objectors (McCain) left the chamber; Randal had the quorum call cancelled, then resubmitted his request to speak and there was nobody there to object so he was allowed to speak for the remaining 5 minutes?

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## specsaregood

//DUPE

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## Brett85

> FOX News is hitting Rand really hard right now over NSA and foreign policy


In other news, the sky is blue.

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## Crashland

> So is what happened is:   The chair incorrectly ruled that time had expired and that Randal couldn't speak because McCain objected.  So Randal called for a Quorum call; then after the objectors (McCain) left the chamber; Randal had the quorum call cancelled, then resubmitted his request to speak and there was nobody there to object?
> 
> Is that what happened?


Yes

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## Dianne

I have the Senate "Live" feed going, but there's no sound.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Is this what happened?   The chair incorrectly ruled that time had expired and that Randal couldn't speak because McCain objected.  So Randal called for a Quorum call; then after the objectors (McCain) left the chamber; Randal had the quorum call cancelled, then resubmitted his request to speak and there was nobody there to object so he was allowed to speak for the remaining 5 minutes?





> Yes


I assume someone shuffled McCain out of the chamber before he embarrassed himself by not knowing the Rules which he was previously (incorrectly) chastising Rand over.

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## specsaregood

> Yes


Nice, I guess we saw who knew how to play the rules best after all.

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## dude58677

So the Patriot Act isn't dead because they voted to limit debate? Or is this a vote on the Freedom Act?

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## TheCaliforniaLife

Geez... how much longer are they going to wait.

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## GunnyFreedom

Also, CSPAN titling is wrong, this is cloture for HR2048 USA Freedom Act, NOT USA PATRIOT Act

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## Bastiat's The Law

So this current vote essentially means the Patriot Act as we know it is dead and the Senate will move on to debating The USA Freedom Act, correct?

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## politics

Rand speaking now

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## twomp

Sounds to me like Rand Paul will allow the vote and the USA Freedom Act will pass. The Patriot Act will live on but will be more "regulated" now? IS this correct?

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## eleganz

Why does Rand get to speak first?  Rand has to be working with Mitch behind the scenes on this one.

Guardian live blog is claiming this last vote means the USA freedom act was passed, wtf??




> USA Freedom Act advances 77-17
> 
> In a stunning reversal from last week’s drama, the USA Freedom Act was passed by a vote of 77-17. The bill, which passed the House overwhelmingly several weeks ago will now move forward and is likely to receive a final vote on Tuesday.
> 
> The bill fell three votes short of the needed supermajority to advance last week but with the clock ticking on controversial provisions of the Patriot Act, supporters of NSA surveillance thought that the proposed reforms were better than letting the program expire entirely.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/l...a-freedom-live

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## eleganz

Why does Rand get to speak first?  Rand has to be working with Mitch behind the scenes on this one.

Guardian live blog is claiming this last vote means the USA freedom act was passed, wtf??




> USA Freedom Act advances 77-17
> 
> In a stunning reversal from last weeks drama, the USA Freedom Act was passed by a vote of 77-17. The bill, which passed the House overwhelmingly several weeks ago will now move forward and is likely to receive a final vote on Tuesday.
> 
> The bill fell three votes short of the needed supermajority to advance last week but with the clock ticking on controversial provisions of the Patriot Act, supporters of NSA surveillance thought that the proposed reforms were better than letting the program expire entirely.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/l...a-freedom-live

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## GunnyFreedom

> Sounds to me like Rand Paul will allow the vote and the USA Freedom Act will pass. The Patriot Act will live on but will be more "regulated" now? IS this correct?


PATRIOT Act is dead; USA Freedom Act is less bad, still bad, but a totally different act.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Why does Rand get to speak first?  Rand has to be working with Mitch behind the scenes on this one.
> 
> Guardian live blog is claiming this last vote means the USA freedom act was passed, wtf??


Cloture passing means 99.5% the bill will pass.  They are a little ahead of the gun, but not really entirely wrong.

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## specsaregood

> PATRIOT Act is dead; USA Freedom Act is less bad, still bad, but a totally different act.


Do you know if they are going to allow his amendments to be voted on?

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## GunnyFreedom

> Do you know if they are going to allow his amendments to be voted on?


No idea.  We will find out in the next 40 minutes.  I imagine "no" or Rand would have voted yes on Cloture?

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## twomp

> PATRIOT Act is dead; USA Freedom Act is less bad, still bad, but a totally different act.


A clean reauthorization of the Patriot Act was NEVER going to pass. USA Freedom Act allows for the same thing to happen except instead of the records being kept at the NSA, it's kept at the phone companies. The Patriot Act isn't dead. It was just renamed. EVERYONE cheers. What a waste of time. THEY WILL STILL LISTEN TO EVERYTHING YOU SAY. They just will store it in a different spot. So not really less bad. Just as bad but sprinkled with perfumed.

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## nannette

smart beyond smart. So proud to support Stand with Rand. The question is why did Wyden fold?

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## nannette

They still will keep our financial records too.

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## P3ter_Griffin

Any twitter hashtags being used to support this to get it trending?  Preferably something a-politcal party.

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## nannette

to discuss

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## GunnyFreedom

> A clean reauthorization of the Patriot Act was NEVER going to pass. USA Freedom Act allows for the same thing to happen except instead of the records being kept at the NSA, it's kept at the phone companies. The Patriot Act isn't dead. It was just renamed. EVERYONE cheers. What a waste of time. THEY WILL STILL LISTEN TO EVERYTHING YOU SAY. They just will store it in a different spot. So not really less bad. Just as bad but sprinkled with perfumed.


SOME of the same things.  A lot of it is different.  The entire structure of the act is different.  It's an entirely different act.

They would still be listening to everything you say even if the PATRIOT Act died with NO replacement.

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## GunnyFreedom

Rand just indicated he will try to proceed with his amendments anyway.

ETA - looks like RPF's was fixed.

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## twomp

> SOME of the same things.  A lot of it is different.  The entire structure of the act is different.  It's an entirely different act.
> 
> They would still be listening to everything you say even if the PATRIOT Act died with NO replacement.


Yeah nice try to deflect. YES they will still be listening but it WOULD BE ILLEGAL. As it stands, it is LEGAL. Can't Stand with Rand on this. He could have just voted for the FREEDOM ACT and still claim to have let the Patriot Act Expire. HELL now John McCain and Mitch McConnell can make the same claim as well. Since they all LET the Patriot Act expire. Rand Paul didn't really achieve anything now did he?

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## Rudeman

> Sounds to me like Rand Paul will allow the vote and the USA Freedom Act will pass. The Patriot Act will live on but will be more "regulated" now? IS this correct?


All Rand can do is delay the vote until Tuesday, which I think he will. Nothing he can do to prevent the Freedom Act from passing since it looks like they have the votes.

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## supermario21

Why the hell is Julian Sanchez from the CATO Institute talking about how great USA Freedom is? Everyone else I've read from there and most other diehard libertarians are against it.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Yeah nice try to deflect. YES they will still be listening but it WOULD BE ILLEGAL. As it stands, it is LEGAL. Can't Stand with Rand on this. He could have just voted for the FREEDOM ACT and still claim to have let the Patriot Act Expire. HELL now John McCain and Mitch McConnell can make the same claim as well. Since they all LET the Patriot Act expire. Rand Paul didn't really achieve anything now did he?


I'm not deflecting, I'm stating facts.  Sorry you don't like it.  Rand is fighting the Freedom Act too, because it's a bad act.  But it is a different act.  You can try to paint Rand with a stink-brush all you want but it's not gonna stick.

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## twomp

> All Rand can do is delay the vote until Tuesday, which I think he will. Nothing he can do to prevent the Freedom Act from passing since it looks like they have the votes.


Yea but he won't delay it till Tuesday. Sounds like he is going to let it pass before midnight. I hope I'm wrong but sounds like he buckled under pressure.

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## RonPaulRules

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/com...e_patriot_act/  Vote it up.

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## GunnyFreedom

It's been longer than 5 minutes.  Is this filibuster 3?

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## Bastiat's The Law

> Why the hell is Julian Sanchez from the CATO Institute talking about how great USA Freedom is? Everyone else I've read from there and most other diehard libertarians are against it.


CATO are beltway libertarians.  Tom Woods absolutely eviscerates them in his new book. Good stuff.

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## hells_unicorn

I was hoping that they'd let The Patriot Act die prior to voting on the Freedom Act, but this isn't bad, at least from an optics standpoint. Seeing McCain get embarrassed on the CSPAN was a nice consolation prize.

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## jaymur

Rand Paul asked to be notified when he has 5 minutes left




> It's been longer than 5 minutes.  Is this filibuster 3?

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## twomp

> I'm not deflecting, I'm stating facts.  Sorry you don't like it.  Rand is fighting the Freedom Act too, because it's a bad act.  But it is a different act.  You can try to paint Rand with a stink-brush all you want but it's not gonna stick.


Sorry there is NOTHING Rand Paul can do to make you not support him but I don't worship the guy. He had a chance here to stop it till Tuesday at the very least. But it sounds like (and I may be wrong) he buckled under the pressure and allow it to be reauthorized before midnight and our country is now safe again.

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## Beorn

> It's been longer than 5 minutes.  Is this filibuster 3?


No. At the beginning he asked to be informed when he had 5 minutes left. Presumably he was allowed a longer speech.

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## Rudeman

> Yea but he won't delay it till Tuesday. Sounds like he is going to let it pass before midnight. I hope I'm wrong but sounds like he buckled under pressure.


Based on what? He just saw that the cloture vote passed overwhelmingly, so he knows the Freedom Act will pass. Did you expect him to be thrilled by that?

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## dannno

Hayek ref woot!

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## GunnyFreedom

> Sorry there is NOTHING Rand Paul can do to make you not support him but I don't worship the guy. He had a chance here to stop it till Tuesday at the very least. But it sounds like (and I may be wrong) he buckled under the pressure and allow it to be reauthorized before midnight and our country is now safe again.


It is clear that you actually believe that.

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## twomp

> Based on what? He just saw that the cloture vote passed overwhelmingly, so he knows the Freedom Act will pass. Did you expect him to be thrilled by that?


According to Senate procedure, the Senate needs unanimous vote to pass a bill. That means EVERYONE if you are confused. All Rand Paul has to do is object to the vote and it can be delayed till Tuesday. Causing the Patriot Act to expire and making it illegal to listen to our phone calls for ONE DAY. Although some of his apostles on here will argue, well... "It's just ONE day" or " They will still listen" so just let them do it... One day is better than ZERO days.

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## James Otis, Jr.

> Yeah nice try to deflect. YES they will still be listening but it WOULD BE ILLEGAL. As it stands, it is LEGAL. Can't Stand with Rand on this. He could have just voted for the FREEDOM ACT and still claim to have let the Patriot Act Expire. HELL now John McCain and Mitch McConnell can make the same claim as well. Since they all LET the Patriot Act expire. Rand Paul didn't really achieve anything now did he?


What would you have done that Rand didn't?  I'm scratching my head here.  If you are against these provisions of the Patriot Act and Freedom Act, then you should be pleased with Rand's efforts.  Frankly, if you "Can't Stand with Rand on this" and can't site a better path for him to have taken, I think you're closer to the McCain/Obama path than you are to the 4th Amendment Path.

Idealogically, Paul has done considerable harm to the wanton disregard of our 4th Amendment rights under the so-called Patriot Act.  Why would you wish to belittle, demean, and undercut that effort?

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## paulbot24

Updates? Stinking tablet wont stream the video...

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## Crashland

Drudge put up a direct link to the Youtube video of the 5-minute speech on Rand's channel

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## twomp

> It is clear that you actually believe that.


Some of us like it when people are principled.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Some of us like it when people are principled.


Some us like to be honest _and_ principled.

You clearly think Rand just intentionally reauthorized the USA PATRIOT Act.  I find that position absurd, and obviously wrong.

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## GunnyFreedom

> What would you have done that Rand didn't?  I'm scratching my head here.  If you are against these provisions of the Patriot Act and Freedom Act, then you should be pleased with Rand's efforts.  Frankly, if you "Can't Stand with Rand on this" and can't site a better path for him to have taken, I think you're closer to the McCain/Obama path than you are to the 4th Amendment Path.
> 
> Idealogically, Paul has done considerable harm to the wanton disregard of our 4th Amendment rights under the so-called Patriot Act.  Why would you wish to undercut that effort?


This should be obvious, yes, thank you.

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## Theocrat

"1,000-page bills with two hours to go." Amen, Rand.

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## twomp

> What would you have done that Rand didn't?  I'm scratching my head here.  If you are against these provisions of the Patriot Act and Freedom Act, then you should be pleased with Rand's efforts.  Frankly, if you "Can't Stand with Rand on this" and can't site a better path for him to have taken, I think you're closer to the McCain/Obama path than you are to the 4th Amendment Path.
> 
> Idealogically, Paul has done considerable harm to the wanton disregard of our 4th Amendment rights under the so-called Patriot Act.  Why would you wish to undercut that effort?


I know comprehension is hard for you so I will type this slowly so you can understand. ALL I wanted him to do is not ALLOW the vote until the Patriot Act expires. He seems to have allowed the vote to happen now. THAT IS WHAT I WANT. He can't stop the Freedom Act but he could have at least allowed the Patriot Act to expire. Like he SAID he would.

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## Brett85

I wish people would quit quoting "Twomp."  I had to put him on my ignore list a long time ago because of his idiotic ramblings.

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## GunnyFreedom

> According to Senate procedure, the Senate needs unanimous vote to pass a bill. That means EVERYONE if you are confused. All Rand Paul has to do is object to the vote and it can be delayed till Tuesday. Causing the Patriot Act to expire and making it illegal to listen to our phone calls for ONE DAY. Although some of his apostles on here will argue, well... "It's just ONE day" or " They will still listen" so just let them do it... One day is better than ZERO days.


Cloture is 60 votes, not 100.  Cloture passed 77 to 17.  You clearly do not understand how this works.

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## eleganz

Tromp, Rand accomplished what he wanted to today, they are moving past the patriot act letting it expire (which Rand said he was going to cause to happen, and he did)

He can't control whether or not the USA freedom act passes but he can TRY to get a debate and amendments added to it, that is what he wants but it doesn't mean that is what he will get.

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## ross11988

I believe Rand has an hour to speak.

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## paulbot24

Well stated eleganz.

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## twomp

> Some us like to be honest _and_ principled.
> 
> You clearly think Rand just intentionally reauthorized the USA PATRIOT Act.  I find that position absurd, and obviously wrong.


You like to spin things just because it hurts you to hear bad things about Rand. He said he intends to let the Patriot Act expires. Not allowing the FREEDOM ACT to be passed before midnight is something that he has said he would do. He has now backed down from that. I am holding him accountable for that. Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I speak the truth. Continue spinning my words though.

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## Schifference

Rand is Awesome and Tearing it UP!!

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## James Otis, Jr.

> I wish people would quit quoting "Twomp."  I had to put him on my ignore list a long time ago because of his idiotic ramblings.


I wasn't aware he routinely posted in this manner.  Thanks for the heads-up.

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## paulbot24

Meanwhile in the nobody is perfect and all-powerful world, Rand is kicking ass.

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## Brett85

What Rand said is that he would force the Patriot Act to expire unless he could get a majority vote on his amendments.  It seems as though he's getting a majority vote on his amendments and is thus allowing the vote to happen tonight.

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## spudea

> THAT IS WHAT I WANT. He can't stop the Freedom Act but he could have at least allowed the Patriot Act to expire. Like he SAID he would.


Sir you are confused.  The debated sections of the patriot act do expire tonight.  Rand Paul was successful.

The vote for the USA Freedom Act is proceeding due to a 77-17 vote that Rand Paul had no hand to play in order to stop.  At this point, McConnell will attempt to pass the USA Freedom Act without allowing amendments.  If Rand Paul objects, this delays the vote until Tuesday.

----------


## Theocrat

> Meanwhile in the nobody is perfect and all-powerful world, Rand is kicking ass.


Yes, this is history-in-the-making.

----------


## Barrex

> You like to spin things just because it hurts you to hear bad things about Rand. He said he intends to let the Patriot Act expires. Not allowing the FREEDOM ACT to be passed before midnight is something that he has said he would do. He has now backed down from that. I am holding him accountable for that. Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I speak the truth. Continue spinning my words though.


Calm down. You are wrong. You obviously misunderstand what he did and situation. He didnt backed and he didnt stopped fighting. 

P.s.
Dont take this as an insult.

----------


## eleganz

> You like to spin things just because it hurts you to hear bad things about Rand. He said he intends to let the Patriot Act expires. Not allowing the FREEDOM ACT to be passed before midnight is something that he has said he would do. He has now backed down from that. I am holding him accountable for that. Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I speak the truth. Continue spinning my words though.


I think you are either trolling or genuinely insane.

Rand has always mainted the position to be allowed an opportunity to debate and add his amendments to the USA Freedom Act.  The U.F.A. almost passed last week but failed by 3 votes or did you forget?

----------


## Brett85

Well, maybe not.  It just said across the bottom of the screen that "no further votes are scheduled for tonight."  So the Patriot Act will expire for a couple of days.

----------


## Rudeman

> According to Senate procedure, the Senate needs unanimous vote to pass a bill. That means EVERYONE if you are confused. All Rand Paul has to do is object to the vote and it can be delayed till Tuesday. Causing the Patriot Act to expire and making it illegal to listen to our phone calls for ONE DAY. Although some of his apostles on here will argue, well... "It's just ONE day" or " They will still listen" so just let them do it... One day is better than ZERO days.


What are you even talking about? Are you completely confused on what is happening? That vote hasn't happened yet, Rand hasn't had a chance to object yet, so yea what are you complaining about?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> You like to spin things just because it hurts you to hear bad things about Rand. He said he intends to let the Patriot Act expires. Not allowing the FREEDOM ACT to be passed before midnight is something that he has said he would do. He has now backed down from that. I am holding him accountable for that. Sorry if it hurts your feelings that I speak the truth. Continue spinning my words though.


You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and you clearly do not understand how the US Senate works.  You are talking like you know what is going on, but everyone in this thread can see that you do not.  I have no problems criticizing anybody who does wrong, including *Ron* Paul.  rand did great today.  He did everything he could possibly do under Senate rules and procedures to end all mass collection.  He did end the PATRIOT Act.  

You are not speaking the truth, you are speaking figments of your imagination.  The rest of s in this thread are speaking the truth, and you can't handle it, because it does not fit with your predetermined antipathy against Rand Paul.

We get it.  You hate Rand.  You will just make stuff up to hate on him, and you will accuse everyone of lying or whatever because it does not fit into your meticulously constructed fantasy world.

You are wrong, and you are just going to have to deal with it.

----------


## twomp

Schiff said it was easier to get lawmakers to support the Freedom Act with its changes to existing law than it would be to vote to re-enact law that had gone away.




> Barring any last-minute compromises, powerful government surveillance authorities under the Patriot Act will expire at the stroke of midnight Monday. And they may never return.
> 
> This week, senators have been negotiating over whether to pass a House bill that would renew and tweak existing provisions in the long-controversial law, rather than let them “sunset” on June 1. But if the sunset comes and the provisions are off the books, lawmakers in both chambers would be facing a vote to reinstate controversial surveillance authorities, which is an entirely different political calculation.
> 
> Lawmakers may be unwilling to vote affirmatively for surveillance powers that many of them already dislike and have tried to rein in. “*I think it is a real risk that if the provisions do expire, they would be more difficult to reinstate than to reform,*” Representative Adam Schiff, the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told The Daily Beast.
> 
> Schiff supports the USA Freedom Act, which overwhelmingly passed the House but failed to muster enough votes in a midnight Senate session last Saturday. The bill would end the NSA’s collection of phone records in bulk, but leave intact other surveillance tools that, while not broadly popular, are less controversial.
> 
> *Schiff said it was easier to get lawmakers to support the Freedom Act with its changes to existing law than it would be to vote to re-enact law that had gone away.
> ...


There were members who voted for the USA Freedom Act who would feel differently about reinstating those provisions” once they’ve lapsed

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-for-good.html

----------


## Theocrat

Alright, Rand!

----------


## JJ2

> Well, maybe not.  It just said across the bottom of the screen that "no further votes are scheduled for tonight."  So the Patriot Act will expire for a couple of days.


Why is there no definitive word on this though??

----------


## James Otis, Jr.

> I know comprehension is hard for you so I will type this slowly so you can understand. ALL I wanted him to do is not ALLOW the vote until the Patriot Act expires. He seems to have allowed the vote to happen now. THAT IS WHAT I WANT. He can't stop the Freedom Act but he could have at least allowed the Patriot Act to expire. Like he SAID he would.


The comprehension problem is yours, sir.  The Patriot Act will expire tonight, thanks mainly to Rand Paul.  The Feedom Act passed the House and will pass the Senate.  Rand will vote against it.  He did everything he could and more than most have done in the last century to protect 4th Amendment rights, and still you position yourself as a bombastic critic of his efforts.  Even if you sincerely believe in liberty and the 4th Amendment, I'm glad you are not representing it in the Senate!

----------


## eleganz

What I don't understand is :

Does Wyden support a clean U.F.A. or does he support U.F.A. *only* with Rand's amendments added in???

----------


## twomp

> The comprehension problem is yours, sir.  The Patriot Act will expire tonight, thanks mainly to Rand Paul.  The Feedom Act passed the House and will pass the Senate.  Rand will vote against it.  He did everything he could and more than most have done in the last century to protect 4th Amendment rights, and still you position yourself as a bombastic critic of his efforts.  Even if you sincerely believe in liberty and the 4th Amendment, I'm glad you are not representing it in the Senate!


See my above post:

I think it is a real risk that if the provisions do expire, they would be more difficult to reinstate than to reform

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> See my above post:
> 
> I think it is a real risk that if the provisions do expire, they would be more difficult to reinstate than to reform


The provisions are expiring at midnight tonight.

----------


## JJ2

The provisions WILL expire: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...mate/28260905/

----------


## Barrex

WHAT ? Type louder!!!

----------


## twomp

They will have expired anyways. They will have expired if he voted for it last week.

----------


## Rudeman

> The provisions WILL expire: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...mate/28260905/


Yup pretty sure Rand objected when McConnell tried to extend them temporarily.

----------


## Brett85

The associated press is reporting that the Patriot Act is going to expire tonight as no deal was reached.  The person who was going crazy in this thread is just wrong about what's happening.

----------


## Rudeman

> They will have expired anyways.


McConnell tried to extend them temporarily but Rand objected.

----------


## Schifference

Patriot Act Bla Bla Bla doesn't matter. Because that will be replaced with this. Point is Rand is making younger Americans aware of the fact that they are truly $#@!ed!

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

http://www.c-span.org/video/?326227-...veillance&live




> MR. McCONNELL: LAST WEEK I PROPOSED GIVING THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE THE TIME IT WOULD NEED TO WORK TOWARD THE BIPARTISAN LEGISLATIVE COMPROMISE AMERICANS DESERVE. A COMPROMISE THAT WOULD PRESERVE IMPORTANT COUNTERTERRORISM TOOLS THAT ARE NECESSARY TO PROTECT AMERICAN LIVES. THAT EFFORT WAS BLOCKED. JUST NOW, I PROPOSED AN EVEN NARROWER EXTENSION THAT WOULD HAVE ONLY EXTENDED SOME OF THE LEAST CONTROVERSIAL, LEAST CONTROVERSIAL, BUT STILL CRITICAL TOOLS TO ENSURE THEY DO NOT LAPSE AS SENATORS WORK TOWARDS A MORE COMPREHENSIVE LEGISLATIVE OUTCOME. BUT EVEN THAT VERY NARROW OFFER WAS BLOCKED. I THINK IT SHOULD BE WORRYING FOR OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE THE NATURE OF THE THREAT WE FACE IS VERY SERIOUS. IT'S A AGGRESSIVE, IT'S SOPHISTICATED, IT'S GEOGRAPHICALLY DISPERSE, AND IT'S NOT -- NOT -- GOING AWAY. AS THE "L.A. TIMES" REPORTED -- QUOTE -- "THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS DRAMATICALLY STEPPED UP WARNINGS OF POTENTIAL TERRORIST ATTACKS ON AMERICAN SOIL AFTER SEVERAL YEARS OF RELATIVE CALM." AND THE PAPER REPORTED THAT THIS IS OCCURRING IN THE WAKE OF F.B.I. ARRESTS OF AT LEAST 30 AMERICANS ON TERRORISM-RELATED CHARGES THIS YEAR IN AN ARRAY, AN ARRAY, OF LONE WOLF PLOTS. SO THESE AREN'T THEORETICAL THREATS, MR. PRESIDENT. IT'S NOT A THREAT THREAT. THEY'RE WITH US EVERY DAY. WE HAVE TO FACE UP TO THEM. WE SHOULDN'T BE DISARMING UNILATERALLY AS OUR ENEMIES GROW MORE SOPHISTICATED AND AGGRESSIVE. AND WE CERTAINLY SHOULD NOT BE DOING SO BASED ON A CAMPAIGN OF DEMAGOGUERY AND DISINFORMATION LAUNCHED IN THE WAKE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIONS OF EDWARD SNOWDEN. WHO WAS LAST SEEN IN RUSSIA. THE OPPONENTS OF THIS PROGRAM NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY, ANY EXAMPLES OF THE N.S.A. ABUSING THE AUTHORITIES PROVIDED UNDER SECTION 215. AND THE RECORD WILL SHOW THERE HAS, IN FACT, NOT BEEN ONE DOCUMENTED INSTANCE OF ABUSE OF IT. I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THE CONTENT OF CALLS ARE NOT CAPTURES -- CAPTURED. THAT'S THE GENERAL VIEW, BUT IT'S AN INCORRECT ONE. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. THE CONTENT OF CALLS ARE NOT CAPTURED. I SAY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IF YOU'VE BEEN TOLD THAT, THAT IS NOT CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT I AM ABOUT -- I MEAN ABOUT A CAMPAIGN OF DISINFORMATION. THE ONLY THINGS IN QUESTION ARE THE NUMBER DIALED, THE NUMBER FROM WHICH THE CALL WAS MADE, THE LENGTH OF THE CALL, AND THE DATE. THAT'S IT. THAT'S IT. DETAILED OVERSIGHT PROCEDURES HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE, TOO, IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE PRIVACY OF AMERICANS. NOW, I BELIEVE THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT STRIKES A CRITICAL BALANCE BETWEEN PRIVACY ON THE ONE HAND AND NATIONAL SECURITY ON THE OTHER. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE SENATE STILL SHOULDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOME CHANGES TO IT. THAT'S PRECISELY THE OUTCOME I'D BEEN HOPING TO FACILITATE BY SEEKING SEVERAL SHORT-TERM EXTENSIONS. AND CONSIDERING ALL THAT'S COME TO LIGHT ABOUT THE HOUSE-PASSED BILL IN RECENT WEEKS, I BELIEVE THIS WAS MORE THAN REASONABLE. *THE ADMINISTRATION'S INABILITY TO ANSWER EVEN THE MOST BASIC QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVE BULK DATA SYSTEM IT WOULD HAVE TO BUILD UNDER THAT LEGISLATION IS TO SAY AT THE VERY LEAST, PRETTY TROUBLING. PRETTY TROUBLING. THAT'S NOT JUST MY VIEW. THAT'S THE VIEW OF MANY IN THIS BODY INCLUDING COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE BEEN FAVORABLY PREDISPOSED TO THE HOUSE BILL. IN PARTICULAR, I KNOW SENATORS FROM BOTH PARTIES HAVE BEEN DISTURBED BY THE ADMINISTRATION'S CONTINUING INABILITY TO GUARANTEE WHETHER THE NEW SYSTEM WOULD WORK AS WELL AS THE CURRENT ONE OR WHETHER THERE WOULD EVEN BE ANY DATA AVAILABLE TO ANALYZE. BECAUSE WHILE THE ADMINISTRATION HAS LET IT BE KNOWN THIS NONEXISTENT SYSTEM COULD ONLY BE BUILT IN TIME, IF TELEPHONE PROVIDERS COOPERATE IN BUILDING IT, PROVIDERS HAVE MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO COMMIT TO RETAINING THE DATA. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO COMMIT TO RETAINING THE DATA FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME UNLESS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO DO SO. AND THERE'S NO SUCH REQUIREMENT IN THE HOUSE-PASSED BILL.* NONE AT ALL. HERE'S HOW ONE PROVIDER PUT IT. WE'RE NOT PREPARED TO COMMIT TO VOLUNTARILY RETAIN DOCUMENTS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME PURSUANT TO THE PROPOSED U.S.A. FREEDOM ACT IF NOT REQUIRED BY LAW. IF NOT REQUIRED BY LAW. QUOTE-UNQUOTE. THESE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE REASONS I THOUGHT IT WAS PRUDENT TO TRY AND GIVE THE SENATE MORE SPACE TO ADVANCE BETTER LEGISLATION THROUGH COMMITTEE CONSIDERATION AND REGULAR ORDER WITH INPUT FROM BOTH SIDES. BUT MY COLLEAGUES, IT IS NOW CLEAR THAT THAT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE IN THE FACE OF DETERMINED OPPOSITION FROM THOSE WHO SIMPLY WISH TO END THE COUNTERTERRORISM PROGRAM ALTOGETHER. NO TIME TO TRY TO IMPROVE THE HOUSE-PASSED BILL WILL BE ALLOWED BECAUSE SOME WOULD LIKE TO END THE PROGRAM ALTOGETHER. SO THIS IS WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES. THIS IS THE REALITY. AND SO IT ESSENTIALLY LEAVES US WITH TWO OPTIONS. OPTION ONE -- ALLOW THE PROGRAM TO EXPIRE ALTOGETHER WITHOUT ATTEMPTING TO REPLACE IT. THAT WOULD MEAN DISARMING COMPLETELY AND ASH TARELL BASED ON A CAMPAIGN OF DISINFORMATION IN THE FACE OF GROWING, AGGRESSIVE, AND SOPHISTICATED THREATS. GROWING, AGGRESSIVE, AND SOPHISTICATED THREATS. THAT'S A TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE OUTCOME. COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE OUTCOME. SO WE WON'T BE DOING THAT. AND SO WE'RE LEFT WITH OPTION TWO. THE HOUSE-PASSED BILL. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT IDEAL. BUT ALONG WITH VOTES ON SOME MODEST AMENDMENTS THAT ATTEMPT TO ENSURE THE PROGRAM CAN ACTUALLY WORK AS PROMISED, IT'S NOW THE ONLY REALISTIC WAY FORWARD. SO I REMAIN DETERMINED TO CONTINUE WORKING TOWARD THE BEST OUTCOME FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE POSSIBLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. THIS IS WHERE WE ARE, COLLEAGUES. A HOUSE-PASSED BILL WITH SOME SERIOUS FLAWS, AN INABILITY TO GET A SHORT-TERM EXTENSION TO TRY TO IMPROVE THE HOUSE-PASSED BILL AND THE WAY WOULD WOULD NORMALLY DO THIS THROUGH SOME KIND OF CONSULTATIVE PROCESS. SO BEARING THAT IN MIND, I MOVE TO PROCEED TO THE MOTION TO RECONSIDER VOTE NUMBER 194, THE VOTE BY WHICH CLOTURE WAS NOT INVOKED ON THE MOTION TO PROCEED TO H.R. 2048.

----------


## twomp

Okay, I will admit when I am wrong. So I am wrong about the provisions. Done! My apologies.

----------


## afwjam

wtf...

----------


## EBounding

Did Rand yield his time to Wyden?

----------


## Theocrat

> Okay, I will admit when I am wrong. So I am wrong about the provisions. Done! My apologies.

----------


## cajuncocoa

I think everyone here knows I don't worship Rand....I take things one thing at a time, one day at a time. And on this issue, Rand has been pretty damned awesome today and for the past several days.  I don't expect the snakes in the Senate to hold this off forever, but I give Rand credit for holding it off for as long as he can.  I hope he's at least opened the eyes of some sleeping Boobuses out there...they need to be made aware of where the fight for our freedoms really needs to take place. Hint: it's not overseas.

----------


## Theocrat

> I think everyone here knows I don't worship Rand....I take things one thing at a time, one day at a time. And on this issue, Rand has been pretty damned awesome today and for the past several days.  I don't expect the snakes in the Senate to hold this off forever, but I give Rand credit for holding it off for as long as he can.  I hope he's at least opened the eyes of some sleeping Boobuses out there...they need to be made aware of where the fight for our freedoms really needs to take place. Hint: it's not overseas.


Rand is fighting against terrorism tonight in the Senate chambers.

----------


## libertyplz



----------


## francisco

> Wyden for VP?


Don't get carried away. He's very "progressive" left on economic issues.

----------


## twomp

> USA Freedom Act advances 77-17
> 
> *In a stunning reversal from last week’s drama, the USA Freedom Act was passed by a vote of 77-17. The bill, which passed the House overwhelmingly several weeks ago will now move forward and is likely to receive a final vote on Tuesday*.
> 
> The bill fell three votes short of the needed supermajority to advance last week but with the clock ticking on controversial provisions of the Patriot Act, supporters of NSA surveillance thought that the proposed reforms were better than letting the program expire entirely


So Rand Paul probably did get his amendments in. Good for him! My apologies for my flare up earlier.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/l...a-freedom-live

----------


## jbauer

> Did anyone see this commercial?


That was pretty darn cool.

----------


## phill4paul

Lol.




> John McCain may be 78-years-old but he is active on social media.
> 
> While criticizing Rand Paul tonight, the Arizona Republican noted “I just saw a tweet from Senator Paul saying take a selfie of yourself while watching Senator Paul on the floor tonight” which McCain saw as another example of what he calls Paul’s self promotion.
> 
> When The Guardian followed up to ask if McCain himself would take a selfie, the Arizona Republican responded “I’m not good looking enough to enjoy that.”


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/l...a-freedom-live

----------


## tommyrp12

They are taking calls on c-span now. It will be interesting to hear the reactions.

----------


## carlton

> Now I'm confused. Didn't they pass cloture earlier?


Twomp, does this mean you rescind all the crap you talked today, since the patriot act will be dead and no freedom act voting until Tuesday (like you wanted)? I know crow is a tough meat but sometimes you gotta dig in, dinners served

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> ETA - looks like RPF's was fixed.


Maybe someone was trying to prevent this?

[Now!] Unofficial #StandWithRand for the #4A mini-money bomb!

----------


## r3volution 3.0

Here's what happened...

As of midnight tonight, the PATRIOT ACT is worm food. Done deal. 

The Senate won't pass the re-authorization tonight, and it wouldn't matter anyway, since the House hasn't passed it yet and isn't  even in Washington.

The issue today was about the (equally Orwellianly named) Freedom Act (aka PATRIOT Act in drag), and whether it could be passed by midnight tonight (to ensure continuity of tyranny). 

The vote that just happened 77-13, which caused so many heart attacks, was merely cloture on the Freedom Act; and it's no surprise that it passed over Rand's objections. The only reason cloture failed before was that McConnel opposed it (because he wanted a clean reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act), but now he's cutting his losses and trying to push through the Freedom Act. 

 But cloture is only the first step in moving toward an actual vote on the bill; that vote cannot possibly happen tonight. 

So, the PATRIOT Act will expire and be _replaced with nothing_ - at least for a little while. 

They have the vote to ultimately produce a replacement, but it is unlikely to be the Freedom Act unmodified. A lot of Congressmen supported the Freedom Act only because they thought it was marginally better than a straight PATRIOT Act re-authorization, which at the time was the only alternative. With the PATRIOT Act dead and off the table, some of them will jump ship for a more serious reform (enter Rand's amendments to the Freedom Act). 

In other words...

----------


## francisco

> They are taking calls on c-span now. It will be interesting to hear the reactions.


So far (about 5 calls in), all are supporting Rand's position

----------


## 01000110

Obama voters calling in and voicing support for Rand.  

Great job Rand!

----------


## JJ2

What I want to know is: what exactly did Rand *do* today to force no more votes until Tuesday? I'm confused on that. Was there a voice objection that I missed? Or what exactly did he have to do?

----------


## phill4paul

> So far (about 5 calls in), all are supporting Rand's position


  Including two Dems. Both regretted voting for Obama and gave Rand props.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> What I want to know is: what exactly did Rand *do* today to force no more votes until Tuesday? I'm confused on that. Was there a voice objection that I missed? Or what exactly did he have to do?


Cloture passed, final vote can occur after 30 hours.




> After cloture has been invoked, the following restrictions apply:
> 
>     No more than 30 hours of debate may occur.[15]
>     No Senator may speak for more than one hour.
>     No amendments may be moved unless they were filed on the day in between the presentation of the petition and the actual cloture vote.
>     All amendments must be relevant to the debate.
>     Certain procedural motions are not permissible.[which?]
>     The presiding officer gains additional powers in controlling debate[which?].
>     No other matters may be considered until the question upon which cloture was invoked is disposed of.

----------


## devil21

> Don't get carried away. He's very "progressive" left on economic issues.


Yeah, he has been good on this issue.  Shame he's so hard core for TPP.

----------


## afwjam

Good callers on cspan, we are not alone.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Cloture passed, final vote can occur after 30 hours.


Yes, my understanding of the rules is that that requirement can only be waived by unanimous consent.

Rand didn't consent.

----------


## spudea

> What I want to know is: what exactly did Rand *do* today to force no more votes until Tuesday? I'm confused on that. Was there a voice objection that I missed? Or what exactly did he have to do?


Today McConnell tried to extend 2 other provisions of the Patriot Act in a separate vote.  Paul objected.  His filibuster last week and objection last week forced McConnell to delay action on the house bill until today, because he did not have 60 votes for cloture last week. Today, McConnell brought a cloture vote that passed which limits debate on the house bill to 30hrs, thus pushing the final passage vote on the house bill to Tuesday.  It is up to McConnell if he will allow amendments to be debated for the house bill, but this will further delay the final passage.  We expect he will not allow amendments, and without increased pressure on our senators, the house bill will likely pass on Tuesday, then be signed by Obama.

----------


## Jan2017

> Including two Dems. Both regretted voting for Obama and gave Rand props.


Rand is gonna win over those Dems that are lukewarm to the Clinton's return to 1600 Pennsylvania, 
and many Independents - much more of those than the GOP nominee predecessors 
(including Mitt wanting to only be satisfactory to that "51%" of the people, a comment he could never retract) 
. . . and especially when McCain is looking like such an arse - still.

----------


## specsaregood

> It is up to McConnell if he will allow amendments to be debated for the house bill, but this will further delay the final passage.  We expect he will not allow amendments, and without increased pressure on our senators, the house bill will likely pass on Tuesday, then be signed by Obama.


I seem to recall reading that McConnell wants amendments to it.   So we might get those.

----------


## specsaregood

so much for the haters saying that Randal's filibuster wasn't a filibuster.

----------


## devil21

So which one of you just called C-SPAN?

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

> Here's what happened...
> 
> As of midnight tonight, the PATRIOT ACT is worm food. Done deal. 
> 
> The Senate won't pass the re-authorization tonight, and it wouldn't matter anyway, since the House hasn't passed it yet and isn't  even in Washington.
> 
> The issue today was about the (equally Orwellianly named) Freedom Act (aka PATRIOT Act in drag), and whether it could be passed by midnight tonight (to ensure continuity of tyranny). 
> 
> The vote that just happened 77-13, which caused so many heart attacks, was merely cloture on the Freedom Act; and it's no surprise that it passed over Rand's objections. The only reason cloture failed before was that McConnel opposed it (because he wanted a clean reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act), but now he's cutting his losses and trying to push through the Freedom Act. 
> ...


Will it still be a net win if they manage to amend the Freedom Act so as to _require_ the communication companies to store the data?  They only legitimate way they could've gotten any data is if individuals chose providers which stored the data.

----------


## freejack

OMG, cspan callers are totally pro-paul, anti surveillance.  This is amazing!

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Will it still be a net win if they manage to amend the Freedom Act so as to _require_ the communication companies to store the data?  They only legitimate way they could've gotten any data is if individuals chose providers which stored the data.


First, I think the press alone makes it a net win, regardless. 

But I think the Freedom Act - if amended - is more likely to be strengthened than weakened.

----------


## jbauer

> The provisions WILL expire: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...mate/28260905/


So you're saying if a hypothetical terrorist needed to make a hypothetical phone call tonight is the night.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

The terrorists must be quite sad this evening.

Since their stated goal is to make us destroy ourselves by causing us to overreact to them.

They'll be absolutely _devastated_ if Rand gets elected.

----------


## Legend1104

I'm confused. I thought only part of the patriot act was expiring. People here are saying the patriot act without the modifier. So is it the whole thing or just part?

----------


## devil21

> So you're saying if a hypothetical terrorist needed to make a hypothetical phone call tonight is the night.


I wasn't going to be the first to say it.  

As thrilled as I am about the death of the Patriot Act and Rand's great work, I also think it almost guarantees a "terrorist attack" in the near future.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> I'm confused. I thought only part of the patriot act was expiring. People here are saying the patriot act with the modifier. So is it the whole thing or just part?


Just a part. 

But the most important part.

The PATRIOT Act itself is huge, and most of it is fairly objectionable, uninteresting stuff. 

The key parts are what's in play.

----------


## afwjam

Ryan Paul is just like Obama.

----------


## MrGoose

So does the freedom act only need 50 votes? Is that likely to pass? What's so different about the freedom act?

----------


## jbauer

> OMG, cspan callers are totally pro-paul, anti surveillance.  This is amazing!


It is a Sunday night. Have to take it with a grain of salt. but it's a darn good start.

----------


## jbauer

> So does the freedom act only need 50 votes? Is that likely to pass? What's so different about the freedom act?


It'll pass it's just a question about amendments.

----------


## devil21

> Ryan Paul is just like Obama.


I watch some news!

----------


## specsaregood

> I wasn't going to be the first to say it.  
> As thrilled as I am about the death of the Patriot Act and Rand's great work, I also think it almost guarantees a "terrorist attack" in the near future.


Oh OOOGA BOOGA.  On one hand we have people always saying we should be afraid and something bad will happen if we don't give up our freedoms.   Then we get people on the otherhand saying we should aways be afraid to have our freedoms because people will do bad things in order to get us to give up our freedoms.

Screw that, I refuse to be afraid from both of your types.

----------


## jj-

> so much for the haters saying that Randal's filibuster wasn't a filibuster.


I recall the functionally illiterate progressive idiots (reporters) saying that a lot.

Their argument was that Rand's filibuster occurred during the trade debate. So what? It still postpones the debate of the bill that comes after that. These idiots who somehow get to write and have a big platform can't get this simple point:

If you delay the passage of a bill, you effectively delay passage of the bill that comes after it.

----------


## spudea

> So you're saying if a hypothetical terrorist needed to make a hypothetical phone call tonight is the night.


Except these provisions have done nothing to enhance our security.  It has been proven that they have been completely irrelevant in pursuing terrorists or preventing attacks.  There is no reason to entertain any hypothetical on this. Real terrorists don't give a damn either way.

----------


## devil21

> Oh OOOGA BOOGA.  On one hand we have people always saying we should be afraid and something bad will happen if we don't give up our freedoms.   Then we get people on the otherhand saying we should aways be afraid to have our freedoms because people will do bad things in order to get us to give up our freedoms.
> 
> Screw that, I refuse to be afraid from both of your types.


No fear, just realistic.

----------


## Created4

> I seem to recall reading that McConnell wants amendments to it.   So we might get those.


Yes, this will be the next battle. McConnell's amendments (to make it more like the original Patriot Act), and Paul's Amendments (further restrictions on collection data.)

This isn't over yet, but maybe public opinion is now swaying to Paul. McCain made a complete fool of himself, IMHO.

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## Jan2017

> Here's what happened...
> 
> As of midnight tonight, the PATRIOT ACT is worm food. Done deal. 
> 
> The Senate won't pass the re-authorization tonight, and it wouldn't matter anyway, since the House hasn't passed it yet and isn't  even in Washington.
> 
> The issue today was about the (equally Orwellianly named) Freedom Act (aka PATRIOT Act in drag), and whether it could be passed by midnight tonight (to ensure continuity of tyranny). 
> 
> The vote that just happened 77-13, which caused so many heart attacks, was merely cloture on the Freedom Act; and it's no surprise that it passed over Rand's objections. The only reason cloture failed before was that McConnel opposed it (because he wanted a clean reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act), but now he's cutting his losses and trying to push through the Freedom Act. 
> ...





> Rand did a bang up job today. And props to Massie and Amash on this issue also.



A night for a cigar and a Belgian Ale . . .for my taste -
why I think it is success is that if this bad reauthorization was to go through for even a day, it would have justed showed that nothing has changed.

Game On Rand !



.

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## anaconda

> Ironic that Rand's speech to a completely EMPTY Senate chamber will be the most heard speech by the American people.


Empty? Was it before 4 PM EST?

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## Created4

> Yes, this will be the next battle. McConnell's amendments (to make it more like the original Patriot Act), and Paul's Amendments (further restrictions on collection data.)
> 
> This isn't over yet, but maybe public opinion is now swaying to Paul. McCain made a complete fool of himself, IMHO.


Also, I assume with amendments added, it needs to go back to the House? Might the House be emboldened to make it even stricter now that the Patriot Act is dead?

The fact that Paul left with Amash and Massie is a good sign....

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## spudea

Is that you John McCain?

Its not realistic.  Our security forces have all the tools they need to pursue suspected terrorists.  Rand Paul addressed this disingenuous argument in his speech today.

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## staerker



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## georgiaboy

YESSSS!!!!!  outta rep.  The R3VOLUTION continues!




> Here's what happened...
> 
> As of midnight tonight, the PATRIOT ACT is worm food. Done deal. 
> 
> The Senate won't pass the re-authorization tonight, and it wouldn't matter anyway, since the House hasn't passed it yet and isn't  even in Washington.
> 
> The issue today was about the (equally Orwellianly named) Freedom Act (aka PATRIOT Act in drag), and whether it could be passed by midnight tonight (to ensure continuity of tyranny). 
> 
> The vote that just happened 77-13, which caused so many heart attacks, was merely cloture on the Freedom Act; and it's no surprise that it passed over Rand's objections. The only reason cloture failed before was that McConnel opposed it (because he wanted a clean reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act), but now he's cutting his losses and trying to push through the Freedom Act. 
> ...

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## francisco

> Ryan Paul is just like Obama.






> I watch some news!



*smh* She "may watch the news" but I sure hope that particular caller doesn't vote

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## GunnyFreedom

> *smh* She "may watch the news" but I sure hope that particular caller doesn't vote


Well, she won't vote for Ryan Paul.

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## francisco

> Well, she won't vote for Ryan Paul.


Well, there's always the write-in option...if she can write, that is.

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## Crashland

> Empty? Was it before 4 PM EST?


The one when Rand requested a quorum call, everyone left and then he proceeded by unanimous consent to give his epic speech :-P

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## Crashland

twomp, the Freedom Act was not passed yet. Even though they voted for cloture, they aren't allowed to pass the bill until at least Tuesday. You were getting confused because of the way some places were reporting it as "passed" but that is not the case.

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## devil21

> Is that you John McCain?
> 
> Its not realistic.  Our security forces have all the tools they need to pursue suspected terrorists.  Rand Paul addressed this disingenuous argument in his speech today.


After all this time you still don't understand how the evil people operate?  Ok then.

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## garyallen59

This is awesome!

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## afwjam



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## afwjam

> 


Dude we had the same idea! lol

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## staerker

"The wanna ban us on Capitol Hill."




>

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## specsaregood

Interesting:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/l...a-freedom-live
Mitch amended the Freedom Act with only 1 other senator on the floor.




> 28m ago
> 21:38
> Mitch McConnell just came back on the floor. Things could be getting lively.
> 
> 26m ago
> 21:40
> USA Freedom Act advances procedurally on voice vote
> Mitch McConnell showed up on the floor all by himself and advances USA Freedom Act to achieve cloture. He then amends it with only one other senator there.
> 
> ...

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## Galileo Galilei

> OMG, cspan callers are totally pro-paul, anti surveillance.  This is amazing!


I heard it too.  Every single call in favor of Rand and opposed to spying.  Just think what it would have been like if Dick Cheney were doing the spying instead of Obama?

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## anaconda

> They would still be listening to everything you say even if the PATRIOT Act died with NO replacement.


I'm not quite clear on this. Do you mean that they would proceed illegally?

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## anaconda

> Yeah nice try to deflect. YES they will still be listening but it WOULD BE ILLEGAL. As it stands, it is LEGAL. Can't Stand with Rand on this. He could have just voted for the FREEDOM ACT and still claim to have let the Patriot Act Expire. HELL now John McCain and Mitch McConnell can make the same claim as well. Since they all LET the Patriot Act expire. Rand Paul didn't really achieve anything now did he?


But how could McSame & Mitch make this claim since they are on the record as being staunch advocates for extending the Patriot Act?

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## anaconda

> Yea but he won't delay it till Tuesday. Sounds like he is going to let it pass before midnight. I hope I'm wrong but sounds like he buckled under pressure.


If it's gonna pass on Tuesday regardless, how is this "buckling?" He obviously won't vote _for_ it and there's apparently nothing more he can do. He already killed the Patriot Act. Pretty good work for one week..

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## anaconda

> it sounds like (and I may be wrong) he buckled under the pressure and allow it to be reauthorized before midnight and our country is now safe again.


What was reauthorized? It's 12:29 AM in DC.

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## JJ2

> Interesting:
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/l...a-freedom-live
> Mitch amended the Freedom Act with only 1 other senator on the floor.


So if Rand had stayed, he could have delayed it further?

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## anaconda

> According to Senate procedure, the Senate needs unanimous vote to pass a bill.


I thought it was 60 votes for cloture and 51 votes to pass a bill. Where did you see that a bill can only pass with "unanimous" votes?

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## staerker

> What was reauthorized? It's 12:29 AM in DC.


? You're two hours off. It's 10:xx.

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## Brian4Liberty



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## Created4

> http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...ce-118453.html





> If the Senate passes anything other than the USA Freedom Act, the House will have to greenlight it as well. House lawmakers return to Washington on Monday evening and will have to decide if any changes made by McConnell are acceptable.


This is good. The fight is just beginning. The House will basically start over now, since the Patriot Act is now out of the way. Many of the concessions made in the House on the Freedom Act were because it was "better than" the Patriot Act.

So begins round 2, the fight over the Amendments....

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## francisco

> This is good. The fight is just beginning. *The House will basically start over now*, since the Patriot Act is now out of the way. Many of the concessions made in the House on the Freedom Act were because it was "better than" the Patriot Act.
> 
> So begins round 2, the fight over the Amendments....


I don't think that the House is going to just roll over and play dead with whatever amended version the Senate sends back to them. This could be the beginning of a protracted back-and-forth. And, the longer we go without a replacement for the expired provisions of the so-called Patriot Act, without the world coming to an end, the more likely it becomes that those provisions are replaced by...nothing.

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## anaconda

> I don't think that the House is going to just roll over and play dead with whatever amended version the Senate sends back to them. This could be the beginning of a protracted back-and-forth. And, the longer we go without a replacement for the expired provisions of the so-called Patriot Act, without the world coming to an end, the more likely it becomes that those provisions are replaced by...nothing.


I'm definitely missing something here...didn't Mitch just totally screw himself by amending the bill instead of passing it? Now he may get nothing. No? Why does he think that the House will rubber stamp his amendment?

Also: Can we have a news interview with Mitch and ask him which lobbyists wrote his amendment?

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## r3volution 3.0

> I don't think that the House is going to just roll over and play dead with whatever amended version the Senate sends back to them. This could be the beginning of a protracted back-and-forth. And, the longer we go without a replacement for the expired provisions of the so-called Patriot Act, without the world coming to an end, the more likely it becomes that those provisions are replaced by...nothing.


Bingo

Right about now, McCain and Graham in the their underwater volcano lair must be all...

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## Crashland

> I'm definitely missing something here...didn't Mitch just totally screw himself by amending the bill instead of passing it? Now he may get nothing. No? Why does he think that the House will rubber stamp his amendment?
> 
> Also: Can we have a news interview with Mitch and ask him which lobbyists wrote his amendment?


Yeah, amending it does come with some risk of further delay, but maybe since it's already delayed past the deadline he sees an opportunity. It did overwhelmingly pass the House so it has a good chance of passing again with some tweaks. Although, if it is McConnell's amendments and not Rand's amendments, I think they may be taking the bill in the wrong direction.

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## anaconda

> Bingo
> 
> Right about now, McCain and Graham in the their underwater volcano lair must be all...


At first I read this as "McCain and Graham in their underwear.." Not sure how my mind went there..

----------


## francisco

> At first I read this as "McCain and Graham in their underwear.." Not sure how my mind went there..


Mindbleach needed now

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## tsai3904

> I'm definitely missing something here...didn't Mitch just totally screw himself by amending the bill instead of passing it? Now he may get nothing. No? Why does he think that the House will rubber stamp his amendment?


McConnell didn't amend the bill.  He filled the amendment tree.  It's a procedural tactic to block other Senators from offering amendments and only his amendments can be voted on.  His amendments probably won't pass and the Senate will likely pass the bill unamended.

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## anaconda

> McConnell didn't amend the bill.  He filled the amendment tree.  It's a procedural tactic to block other Senators from offering amendments and only his amendments can be voted on.  His amendments probably won't pass and the Senate will likely pass the bill unamended.


Ah! Interesting. Thanks!

----------


## Occam's Banana

> At first I read this as "McCain and Graham in their underwear.." Not sure how my mind went there..







> Mindbleach needed now


And now you're gonna need some eyebleach, too ...

----------


## devil21

> And now you're gonna need some eyebleach, too ...


I looked for that lemon party gif but came up empty.

----------


## radiofriendly

This has been an emotional day for us supporters of Paul and the rule of law! Just want to raise a glass to my brothers (includes sisters) in arms for the cause of Freedom! 

I've learned over the years here to not be so invested in politics (following Jesus is way more scary/interesting), but tonight isn't for big debates--it's a tiny victory for justice against the oppressors of the oppressed. Hazzah!!

----------


## devil21

> McConnell didn't amend the bill.  He filled the amendment tree.  It's a procedural tactic to block other Senators from offering amendments and only his amendments can be voted on.  His amendments probably won't pass and the Senate will likely pass the bill unamended.


He brought up stuff about the military budget, a beer week observance and an appointments bill.  It wasn't all about NSA.

It looked shady but maybe it's standard procedure.  Dunno.  Though the President acknowledged "seconds" that didn't exist and counted McConnell's silent and sole "aye" votes as passing whatever he was offering up.

----------


## timosman

> These Senators are retarded, they want to yap yap yap about doing the right thing and getting the proper legislation passed at the right time and they use this time to bull$#@! about how sorry they are for Joe Biden.  There is a time for legislation and there is a time for mourning outside of the session.


C'mon, Joe is important.

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## Suzanimal

> And now you're gonna need some eyebleach, too ...

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## GunnyFreedom

> Since the vote next week will essentially be to reinstate the Patriot Act, does that mean that the house will have to vote on the USA Freedom Act again as well?


If the Senate Amends it, the House will have to vote on concurrence.

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## acptulsa

And Rand Paul did it.

So what's about to expire now?  The "FREEDOM" Act?

----------

