# Think Tank > Political Philosophy & Government Policy >  I Stopped Wasting My Time on Politics -- (You should, too)

## Ronin Truth

> *Why I Stopped Spending My Time on Politics And Why I Think You Should Too* 
> 
> By Paul Rosenberg
> 
> Casey Research 
> 
> A FREE-MANs TAKE 
> 
> November 25, 2014 
> ...


http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/11/p...e-on-politics/


*6,000 years on the road to no where.*

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## Natural Citizen

I'm rather close to concluding that I'm going to stop wasting so much time on internet forums and information sharing in that form and maybe hit the bricks again. Who gets elected, really, isn't what is important to me as actually getting out there and doing something more direct with regard to the issues themselves. I have more time to travel now so is probably the path I'm going to take. A couple of years ago, it was something that I thought to be practical to try to better understand people in the liberty movement but, unfortunately, I do now understand that it's more like herding cats and there exists too many conflicts of interest.  And I have no loyalty to the Republican or Democratic parties.  Elections, to me, aren't near as critical as grassroots efforts that actually get things done. That is to say that counting seats isn't nearly as practical as counting issues.

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## Danke

"So, in real life, a repressive regime isnt restrained by politics; its restrained by disobedience."


"So, in real life, a repressive regime isnt restrained by politics; its restrained by disobedience."


"So, in real life, a repressive regime isnt restrained by politics; its restrained by disobedience."


Did I get that right AF?

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## Acala

Liberty will not come from the top down.  Liberty will arise from the people when the culture changes.  Change your own life and you will send ripples through the culture.  Just little ones.  But when enough people propagate enough ripples and they reach critical mass, the culture will change and THEN government will change spontaneously.  But not before.  

When the American people stop loving dictators and hating their neighbors, the dictators will flee and freedom will reign among us.

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## erowe1

There's something to be said for the OP.

But I bet Paul Rosenberg still wastes some of his time on other things that are just as pointless as politics.

As for me, I haven't completely given up yet. Even if it's no more than throwing a hail Mary pass to see what happenes, I plan to do what I can to help Rand get elected president.

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## Suzanimal

> Liberty will not come from the top down.  Liberty will arise from the people when the culture changes.  Change your own life and you will send ripples through the culture.  Just little ones.  But when enough people propagate enough ripples and they reach critical mass, the culture will change and THEN government will change spontaneously.  But not before.  
> 
> When the American people stop loving dictators and hating their neighbors, the dictators will flee and freedom will reign among us.


Nice +rep

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## acptulsa

> There's something to be said for the OP.


There's damned precious little to be said for the OP.

In fact, the author should have said, 'Stop voting for the lesser of two evils,' and been done with it.

That's a useful message.  Everything beyond that is a plea for us to maintain the system of competing evils that we're stuck with and desperately need to eliminate.

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## Ronin Truth

> There's something to be said for the OP.
> 
> But I bet Paul Rosenberg still wastes some of his time on other things that are just as pointless as politics.
> 
> As for me, I haven't completely given up yet. Even if it's no more than throwing a hail Mary pass to see what happenes, I plan to do what I can to help Rand get elected president.


Paul does his things, you do yours.  It's good to have a hobby.

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## KCIndy

> So, if you like your politics, you can keep your politics. Im not trying to take it away from you. Im just saying that I wish good people wouldnt pour their time and energy down that particular drainI dont think it benefits them.
> 
> Now, since so many people will object, Ill explain why I think this is so.
> 
> *Then Bad People Will Win! Things Will Get Worse!*
> 
> This is the first argument I usually hear, to which I usually respond: Its already bad, its getting worse, and none of the past ten elections have changed it.
> 
> To that I get a lot of Yeah, but responses.



I won't say "Yeah, but," I'm going to state flat-out that I believe that premise to be wrong.  In some ways, things HAVE gotten better.  

Ten years ago Ron Paul was the lone voice of reason in the House, and he was commonly dismissed as a loon.  Now we have guys like Amash and Massey, and/or other politicians like Walter Jones who have largely turned around their thinking due to the influence of liberty activists.  We have scores of liberty candidates winning races at the local and state level, including many folks right here on RPF.  The ideas of liberty which would have garnered hoots of derision ten years ago (such as marijuana legalization) are now coming to pass.  The basic idea of government being more "hands off" is gaining much wider acceptance.  

So yeah, don't vote.  Don't waste time and energy on things like liberty.  Let's all refuse to vote.  Then the next time some jackbooted government goon is threatening to bash in my skull, I'm safe.  All I have to do is shout, *"Wait!  I'm not part of the system!  I didn't vote!  I refuse to participate! You can't DO this to me!"*

'cause we all know how well that works.

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## Deborah K

> The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.


^^This.

I.R.S. comes to mind.  That is the real beast.  And, as long as we continue to endure it, there is no hope of changing anything else.

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## Ronin Truth

> I won't say "Yeah, but," I'm going to state flat-out that I believe that premise to be wrong.  In some ways, things HAVE gotten better.  
> 
> Ten years ago Ron Paul was the lone voice of reason in the House, and he was commonly dismissed as a loon.  Now we have guys like Amash and Massey, and/or other politicians like Walter Jones who have largely turned around their thinking due to the influence of liberty activists.  We have scores of liberty candidates winning races at the local and state level, including many folks right here on RPF.  The ideas of liberty which would have garnered hoots of derision ten years ago (such as marijuana legalization) are now coming to pass.  The basic idea of government being more "hands off" is gaining much wider acceptance.  
> 
> So yeah, don't vote.  Don't waste time and energy on things like liberty.  Let's all refuse to vote.  Then the next time some jackbooted government goon is threatening to bash in my skull, I'm safe.  All I have to do is shout, *"Wait!  I'm not part of the system!  I didn't vote!  I refuse to participate! You can't DO this to me!"*
> 
> 'cause we all know how well that works.


Have you really had all that much trouble in your life with numerous encounters of repeated episodes of "some jackbooted government goons threatening to bash in your skull"?  If so, then you'd better just keep on voting because that will surely protect and save you.

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## Tod

The realizations of this law firm are probably relevant to this discussion too:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...nto-their-work

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## Ronin Truth

> There's damned precious little to be said for the OP.
> 
> In fact, the author should have said, 'Stop voting for the lesser of two evils,' and been done with it.
> 
> That's a useful message.  Everything beyond that is a plea for us to maintain the system of competing evils that we're stuck with and desperately need to eliminate.


That probably wouldn't have really made much of an article for Lew to want to feature.

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## pessimist

Great article.

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## presence



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## presence



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## osan

> "So, in real life, a repressive regime isn’t restrained by politics; it’s restrained by disobedience."
> 
> 
> "So, in real life, a repressive regime isn’t restrained by politics; it’s restrained by disobedience."
> 
> 
> "So, in real life, a repressive regime isn’t restrained by politics; it’s restrained by disobedience."
> 
> 
> Did I get that right AF?

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## heavenlyboy34

Nice OP.  The good thing about elections though, is that they keep _Boobus_ too busy with their mass mental masturbation to bug me too much for a brief while every few years.

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## osan

> There's something to be said for the OP.


Agreed.  It's whiny, defeatist drivel fraught with all manner of error.

That's actually quite a bit to say about it.

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## Deborah K

> 


Yuri Bezmenov called them 'useful idiots'.  I'm pretty sure he coined the phrase.  Here he is being interviewed years ago by the great G. Edward Griffin:

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## Ronin Truth

> Agreed.  It's whiny, defeatist drivel fraught with all manner of error.
> 
> That's actually quite a bit to say about it.


*
"We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell*

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## acptulsa

> *
> "We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell*


You posted this in defense of a call to stop wasting time on politics?

That's like telling a mechanic with a car that won't shift to stop wasting time diagnosing the transmission, or a doctor facing an appendicitis case to stop wasting his time on the patient's abdomen.

You and hb34 want us to get nowhere.  Noted.  I think we all already figured that out.

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## Ronin Truth

> You posted this in defense of a call to stop wasting time on politics?
> 
> That's like telling a mechanic with a car that won't shift to stop wasting time diagnosing the transmission, or a doctor facing an appendicitis case to stop wasting his time on the patient's abdomen.
> 
> You and hb34 want us to get nowhere.  Noted.  I think we all already figured that out.


Seems like you've explained pretty well the politicians understandable self serving interest and involvement in politics.  That doesn't quite explain the behavior of the herd mentality and group think of the rest of the flock.

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## acptulsa

> Seems like you've explained pretty well the politicians understandable self serving interest and involvement in politics.


I did?  How, exactly?  Do tell, because I don't see it, myself.




> That doesn't quite explain the behavior of the herd mentality and group think of the rest of the flock.


You want me to explain _that_?  Can I part the Red Sea for you while I'm at it?

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## Ronin Truth

> I did?  How, exactly?  Do tell, because I don't see it, myself.
> 
> *Mechanics mechanic, doctors doctor, politicians politic, sheeple follow.* 
> 
> You want me to explain _that_?  Can I part the Red Sea for you while I'm at it?


Sure, go for it, Moses.

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## presence

Enlightened leadership or an enlightened people?

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## presence



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## presence

> *And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, 
> stood  puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so?
> 
>   It came without ribbons. 
>   It came without tags. 
> 
>  It came without packages, 
> boxes or bags.
> 
> ...

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## presence

If we desire liberty we simply need to celebrate it.

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## Ronin Truth

> If we desire liberty we simply need to celebrate it.


FWIW, for me, "liberty" has always implied getting permission from some authority (so called).  That's why I much prefer "freedom", a state of nature.

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## heavenlyboy34

> You posted this in defense of a call to stop wasting time on politics?
> 
> That's like telling a mechanic with a car that won't shift to stop wasting time diagnosing the transmission, or a doctor facing an appendicitis case to stop wasting his time on the patient's abdomen.
> 
> You and *hb34 want us to get nowhere.*  Noted.  I think we all already figured that out.


Can't speak for Ronin, but my goal is to get people more interested in real *freedom* than in violence and politics (which go hand in hand most of the time).  To me, that is somewhere-the ideal somewhere.  You are free to disagree.

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## CCTelander

Electoral politics has, over more than 2 centuries, proven to be a total failure as a means to even _maintain_ a level of liberty already achieved, let alone to expand liberty even farther.

But hey, THIS election cycle will be different, I'm sure. Right?

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## Ronin Truth

> Electoral politics has, over more than 2 centuries, proven to be a total failure as a means to even _maintain_ a level of liberty already achieved, let alone to expand liberty even farther.
> 
> But hey, THIS election cycle will be different, I'm sure. Right?


  That's the mantra.

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## KCIndy

> Have you really had all that much trouble in your life with numerous encounters of repeated episodes of "some jackbooted government goons threatening to bash in your skull"?  If so, then you'd better just keep on voting because that will surely protect and save you.


Yeah, yeah... you don't like voting.  I get it.

But so far, I haven't seen anyone who holds your position offer a genuine, working alternative.  Saying, "I want to wake people up!" isn't going to cut it.  It's like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight.  Sitting around a circle beating drums - or just beating off - ain't gonna cut it either.  

Wishes, in other words, are worth their weight in gold - and I mean *exactly* their weight.  

Moonbeams and fairy dust and unicorn tails are all well and good.  But when it comes to pushing forward an agenda of freedom, they're worse than useless.

So what's the solution?  What's your idea?  Because outside of turning things around through the use of ballots, I can think of only one other means of achieving freedom which has been historically proven beyond any doubt to be effective.  

And I'm not quite ready to recommend that route yet.  Not quite.  Are you?  And if not, what is your idea of a real and workable solution?

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## Ronin Truth

> Yeah, yeah... you don't like voting.  I get it.
> 
> But so far, I haven't seen anyone who holds your position offer a genuine, working alternative.  Saying, "I want to wake people up!" isn't going to cut it.  It's like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight.  Sitting around a circle beating drums - or just beating off - ain't gonna cut it either.  
> 
> Wishes, in other words, are worth their weight in gold - and I mean *exactly* their weight.  
> 
> Moonbeams and fairy dust and unicorn tails are all well and good.  But when it comes to pushing forward an agenda of freedom, they're worse than useless.
> 
> So what's the solution?  What's your idea?  Because outside of turning things around through the use of ballots, I can think of only one other means of achieving freedom which has been historically proven beyond any doubt to be effective.  
> ...


So, I guess it's safe to assume the answer to that threatened skull crushing question is really, "NO NEVER".

How has that voting "genuine working alternative" been working out for you?  Do you have much (enough) to show for it?  

What election has been decided by your actions?  (Unless you're one of the official vote counters.) 





> *Statement of Purpose:* Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve                     a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible                     with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura                     of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably                     strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State                     through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent                     on which State power ultimately depends.


 http://voluntaryist.com/

*"It's really tough to fight an enemy that has outposts in your head."*
*
http://www.google.com/custom?cof=L%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2F  wp-content%2Fthemes%2Flrc%2Fimages%2Fgoogle-search-header.png%3BLH%3A50%3B&domains=www.lewrockwell.co  m&q=non+voting&btnG=Search*

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## helmuth_hubener

> FWIW, for me, "liberty" has always implied getting permission from some authority (so called).  That's why I much prefer "freedom", a state of nature.


They're the same word -- just two different etymologies.  Like manual and handbook.

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## acptulsa

> How has that voting "genuine working alternative" been working out for you?  Do you have much (enough) to show for it?


One could ask you the same.  At least decent representation is something people think they want, whether they actually want decent representation or merely charismatic and entertaining.  A power vacuum, however, is a sleeping dog I've never seen any group of humans let lie.

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## Ronin Truth

> They're the same word -- just two different etymologies.  Like manual and handbook.





> *liberty* (n.) late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French libert "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; *permission*," from liber "free" (see liberal)
> The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure it is right. [Learned Hand, 1944]
> *
> freedom* (n.) Look up freedom at Dictionary.com Old English freodom "freedom, state of free will; charter, emancipation, deliverance;" see free (adj.) + -dom. Freedom-rider recorded 1961, in reference to civil rights activists in U.S. trying to integrate bus lines.
> 
> It has been said by some physicians, that life is a forced state. The same may be said of freedom. It requires efforts, it presupposes mental and moral qualities of a high order to be generally diffused in the society where it exists. [John C. Calhoun, speech, U.S. House of Representatives, Jan. 31, 1816]


//
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php

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## Ronin Truth

> One could ask you the same.  At least decent representation is something people think they want, whether they actually want decent representation or merely charismatic and entertaining.  A power vacuum, however, is a sleeping dog I've never seen any group of humans let lie.


I SWAG the worse it gets, the sooner it ends.

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## Czolgosz

> Electoral politics has, over more than 2 centuries, proven to be a total failure as a means to even _maintain_ a level of liberty already achieved, let alone to expand liberty even farther.
> 
> But hey, THIS election cycle will be different, I'm sure. Right?


Qft

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## helmuth_hubener

> //
> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php


Thank you for doing the research to confirm my correctitude.  Though, you could have just oh-so-helpfully and cleverly linked us all to https://www.google.com/webhp?&ion=1&...edom%20liberty , as is your wont.  I'm surprised you didn't.  Copy and pasting dictionary definitions is much more labor.  I thought you hated typing?

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## KCIndy

> I won't say "Yeah, but," I'm going to state flat-out that I believe that premise to be wrong.  In some ways, things HAVE gotten better.  
> 
> Ten years ago Ron Paul was the lone voice of reason in the House, and he was commonly dismissed as a loon.  Now we have guys like Amash and Massey, and/or other politicians like Walter Jones who have largely turned around their thinking due to the influence of liberty activists.  We have scores of liberty candidates winning races at the local and state level, including many folks right here on RPF.  The ideas of liberty which would have garnered hoots of derision ten years ago (such as marijuana legalization) are now coming to pass.  The basic idea of government being more "hands off" is gaining much wider acceptance.  
> 
> So yeah, don't vote.  Don't waste time and energy on things like liberty.  Let's all refuse to vote.  Then the next time some jackbooted government goon is threatening to bash in my skull, I'm safe.  All I have to do is shout, *"Wait!  I'm not part of the system!  I didn't vote!  I refuse to participate! You can't DO this to me!"*
> 
> 'cause we all know how well that works.





> Have you really had all that much trouble in your life with numerous encounters of repeated episodes of "some jackbooted government goons threatening to bash in your skull"?  If so, then you'd better just keep on voting because that will surely protect and save you.





> Yeah, yeah... you don't like voting.  I get it.
> 
> But so far, I haven't seen anyone who holds your position offer a genuine, working alternative.  Saying, "I want to wake people up!" isn't going to cut it.  It's like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight.  Sitting around a circle beating drums - or just beating off - ain't gonna cut it either.  
> 
> Wishes, in other words, are worth their weight in gold - and I mean *exactly* their weight.  
> 
> Moonbeams and fairy dust and unicorn tails are all well and good.  But when it comes to pushing forward an agenda of freedom, they're worse than useless.
> 
> So what's the solution?  What's your idea?  Because outside of turning things around through the use of ballots, I can think of only one other means of achieving freedom which has been historically proven beyond any doubt to be effective.  
> ...





> So, I guess it's safe to assume the answer to that threatened skull crushing question is really, "NO NEVER".
> 
> How has that voting "genuine working alternative" been working out for you?  Do you have much (enough) to show for it?  
> 
> What election has been decided by your actions?  (Unless you're one of the official vote counters.) 
> 
> 
> http://voluntaryist.com/
> 
> ...



Above is our exchange to date.  

You asked me what has been gained through voting.  I already answered that.  We have more liberty oriented (or "freedom oriented" if you prefer) candidates now than before, on the national level and especially on the local level.  Ideas that were considered laughable just ten years ago, like marijuana legalization, are coming to pass.  Recently New Hampshire became the only state - let me repeat that - THE ONLY STATE in the nation to prevent police from using cameras which would scan everyone's license plate just because the driver happened to be on the road.  *THIS HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE THE POPULATION VOTED FOR REPRESENTATIVES WHO CARED ABOUT FREEDOM.*

I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Now, can you answer my question?  What is your proposal for a working alternative, and can you give a real life example?

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## Ronin Truth

> Above is our exchange to date.  
> 
> You asked me what has been gained through voting.  I already answered that.  We have more liberty oriented (or "freedom oriented" if you prefer) candidates now than before, on the national level and especially on the local level.  Ideas that were considered laughable just ten years ago, like marijuana legalization, are coming to pass.  Recently New Hampshire became the only state - let me repeat that - THE ONLY STATE in the nation to prevent police from using cameras which would scan everyone's license plate just because the driver happened to be on the road.  *THIS HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE THE POPULATION VOTED FOR REPRESENTATIVES WHO CARED ABOUT FREEDOM.*
> 
> I could go on, but I think I've made my point.
> 
> Now, can you answer my question?  What is your proposal for a working alternative, and can you give a real life example?


Oh boy, let that government roll back to 1950 begin.

Not my government nor problem to solve or fix.  The voters created all of this mess, let them clean up their own crap.

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## BV2

> Liberty will not come from the top down.  Liberty will arise from the people when the culture changes.  Change your own life and you will send ripples through the culture.  Just little ones.  But when enough people propagate enough ripples and they reach critical mass, the culture will change and THEN government will change spontaneously.  But not before.  
> 
> When the American people stop loving dictators and hating their neighbors, the dictators will flee and freedom will reign among us.


Ripples can only result from a disturbance.  The greater the disturbance, the farther they will travel.  I have no idea what this means, I'm just running with your metaphor because I like it.

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## Ronin Truth

*In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.*
 Thomas Jefferson

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