# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  Tom Woods Goes Primal!

## Freebie

It's funny, 2 of my biggest interests lately have been RP/Liberty and Primal eating/lifestyle. Looks like Tom Woods is bringing the 2 together as well!

http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/going-primal/

The diet is basically Paleo style, eliminating grains and processed carbs, and embracing vegetables and high fat/protein animal foods. I just finished reading the book, and the science is very solid. It is based in evolutionary biology and working with your hormones, not against them. Also, the takes on exercise and lifestyle are great and scientifically sound. 

Any other Primal folks here on RPF?

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## BuddyRey

I believe in primal as scientifically valid and the healthiest way to live.  Unfortunately, I just wasn't raised to appreciate vegetables at all, and pastas & grains are among my very favorite things to eat.  There's just no way I'd be able to stick to it religiously.

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## Freebie

It's definitely a tough switch to make, I kind of switched into it slowly over time. I gotta say, a nice dallop of grass-fed butter on vegetables goes a long way to making me appreciate them

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## ShaneEnochs

Sounds like a variation of the Atkins diet.

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## Freebie

> Sounds like a variation of the Atkins diet.


Basically, but with more vegetables and some fruit. Atkins was definitely right about carbs though - carbs kill.

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## kylejack

Too bad I like beer.

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## slamhead

I wonder if your appendix will start to do something on that diet.

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## kill the banks

I can gain weigh drinking a black coffee sometimes ... I do best when i eat regularly and then get my body use of it , then workout hard for a while and the pounds drop off  ... good luck on this one

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## Acala

I'm primal.  It's awesome.

There are some significant differences from Atkins.

Atkins is really only concerned with carbs.

Primal is concerned with micronutriets as well.  For example, Primal is concerned with proper essential fatty acid balance.  


Atkins doesn't really care about the source of food.

Primal looks to minimize toxins by using natural, organic food.

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## Acala

> I believe in primal as scientifically valid and the healthiest way to live.  Unfortunately, I just wasn't raised to appreciate vegetables at all, and pastas & grains are among my very favorite things to eat.  There's just no way I'd be able to stick to it religiously.


Try eating pasta plain for a while and then tell me you really like it.  Pasta without sauce is about as delicious as mud.  So it is really the sauce you like and, assuming you avoid bad oils and use grass fed meat, most pasta sauce is perfectly fine on a primal diet.  You just need to put it on something other than pasta.  Like spaghetti squash or cauliflower-rice.

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## Blankstare

> Basically, but with more vegetables and some fruit. Atkins was definitely right about carbs though - carbs kill.


Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.

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## Wesker1982

I might try it someday. My wife is pregnant, so now is a bad time. Currently on the IIFYM diet, which is fine for body composition and weight, but primal sounds interesting for overall health.

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## Bruehound

I'm 8 days in and feeling great. i can tell already the hardest part is finding sources of natural/organic foods so that I am never tempted to eat a barcode again!

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## trey4sports

I tend to err on the side of a more raw foods lifestyle as opposed to primal.

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## Tina

Paleo here.  I find my grass fed meats at the local food coop.    All the bad press about saturated fats is a lie. Your brain needs sat. fats to function properly.

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## crhoades

> Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.


http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp

Cholesterol will actually go down.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/chole...#axzz1jjWuZKBT

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## Acala

> Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.


Fail.

Atkins died when he fell on the ice and whacked his head on the sidewalk.  Besides, Primal is not Atkins.

Carbohydrates are not required in the human diet AT ALL.  The Inuit traditionally had a virtually carb-free diet and did fine, thank you.

You are basing your position on bad data and government propaganda.  The relationship between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol levels is insignificant.  Your body MAKES cholesterol if the blood level falls too low because cholesterol is an essential substance for many bodily needs.  If you have too much cholesterol it is an indicator of inflammation.  But lipitor is the largest selling drug in Big Pharma's catalog, so the big money is on "treating" cholesterol levels.    

Cardiovascular disease is an INFLAMMATORY illness.  If you have arterial plaques it is because the walls of your blood vessels are being damaged by chronic inflammation.  It does relate to diet, but not because of cholesterol or fat levels in food.  Rather, it is the inflammatory effects of bad diet that cause cardiovascular disease.

If you want to talk about what causes chronic, systemic inflammation, we can do that.  Here's a hint: it ISN'T dietary saturated fat.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.


It's not about eliminating all carbs.  It's about getting carbs from the proper sources-vegetables, fruit, etc.-not grains. Your body is not designed for a high grain diet.  I've never read Atkins' work, but I changed my diet to a "primal" one a few months ago, and I've been very fit.  Gained muscle and lost fat in conjunction with exercise.  A better book than Atkins' is "The Paleo Diet For Athletes". http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Diet-Athletes-Nutritional-Performance/dp/1594860890

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## phesoge

I currently eat primal about 70 percent of the time, but I do cheat quite often because of my love of alchohol. However; about a year ago I went full on primal for about 3.5 months. Shed a ridiculous amount of weight. I just eat primal enough now to ensure I do not gain the weaight back. All in all a great life style, but I unfortunately am just a weak willed human.

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## trey4sports

> Basically, but with more vegetables and some fruit. Atkins was definitely right about carbs though - carbs kill.





> Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.


well....kinda sorta.

Eating refined carbs like sugar and white flour are not good for you, not in any way. 

vegetables, whole grains and other carbs that don't spike your insulin levels are great for your body. Particularly vegetables which are antioxidant rich. 

as far as primal goes, my biggest concern is that very high protein diets have been connected to high rates of cancer and disease whereas you see the exact opposite in raw food diets.

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## KingNothing

I read about this diet about five years ago and have been doing a variant of it ever since.  I just call it "common sense."  Vegetables good.  Processed food and sugars are bad.

Count your calories, and pack a lot of nutrients into your meals and you'll be fine.

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## heavenlyboy34

> well....kinda sorta.
> 
> Eating refined carbs like sugar and white flour are not good for you, not in any way. 
> 
> vegetables, whole grains and other carbs that don't spike your insulin levels are great for your body. Particularly vegetables which are antioxidant rich. 
> *
> as far as primal goes, my biggest concern is that very high protein diets have been connected to high rates of cancer and disease whereas you see the exact opposite in raw food diets*.


  Correlation is not causation.  Many other cultures still live a "primal" type lifestyle and are healthier than typical western high-carb diets.  I believe this was mentioned earlier in the thread.

btw-grains do spike insulin levels.  That's why high-carb diets often lead to insulin resistence and type II diabetes.

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## KingNothing

> Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.


And the carbs in fruits and vegetables give you energy.

The key is to eat the right types of carbs!

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## trey4sports

> Correlation is not causation.  *Many other cultures still live a "primal" type lifestyle and are healthier than typical western high-carb diets.*  I believe this was mentioned earlier in the thread.
> 
> btw-grains do spike insulin levels.  That's why high-carb diets often lead to insulin resistence and type II diabetes.



yeah, and i would make a similar argument to the one you made..... correlation is not necessarily causation. There are a lot more variables at play.

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## KingNothing

> well....kinda sorta.
> 
> Eating refined carbs like sugar and white flour are not good for you, not in any way. 
> 
> vegetables, whole grains and other carbs that don't spike your insulin levels are great for your body. Particularly vegetables which are antioxidant rich. 
> 
> as far as primal goes, my biggest concern is that very high protein diets have been connected to high rates of cancer and disease whereas you see the exact opposite in raw food diets.


Ever see Fork Over Knife?  It's an interesting documentary that agrees with your premise, though I'm not entirely sold on it.

I would suggest that it's best to just keep it simple - eat as many vegetables as you can.  Eat some fruit and nuts.  Eat less chicken and eggs.  Eat even less red meat.  Avoid refined sugars, fried foods, white bread, etc

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## trey4sports

> I believe in primal as scientifically valid and the healthiest way to live.  Unfortunately, I just wasn't raised to appreciate vegetables at all, and *pastas & grains are among my very favorite things to eat.*  There's just no way I'd be able to stick to it religiously.



try some spaghetti squash in place of noodles. Delicious.

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## KingNothing

The hardest thing about getting over simple carbs is that they're actually addicting.  Your body craves that garbage for some reason, and it takes a week or two to get it completely over the junk.  Once you get through that phase, it becomes much easier.

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## trey4sports

> Ever see Fork Over Knife?  It's an interesting documentary that agrees with your premise, though I'm not entirely sold on it.
> 
> I would suggest that it's best to just keep it simple - eat as many vegetables as you can.  Eat some fruit and nuts.  Eat less chicken and eggs.  Eat even less red meat.  Avoid refined sugars, fried foods, white bread, etc



yup. Part of how i got interested in a raw diet. Granted, my diet is probably 70% raw at this time. I eat meat, but as a general rule the guidelines above are pretty much how I eat.

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## heavenlyboy34

> yeah, and i would make a similar argument to the one you made..... correlation is not necessarily causation. There are a lot more variables at play.


Yep.  Without exercise, you'll get fat on any kind of diet.  Other cultures that have long been on a paleo lifestyle aren't sedentary like Americans usually are.  I didn't mean to say that diet is the only factor.  It is critical, though.  High carb diets also make your body's ph acidic, making it difficult to absorb nutrients, btw.   The person on a high-carb diet and alkaline ph is so rare that it's statistically insignificant.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Ever see Fork Over Knife?  It's an interesting documentary that agrees with your premise, though I'm not entirely sold on it.
> 
> I would suggest that it's best to just keep it simple - eat as many vegetables as you can.  Eat some fruit and nuts.  Eat less chicken and eggs.  Eat even less red meat.  Avoid refined sugars, fried foods, white bread, etc


What's wrong with chicken, eggs, and red meat?  These are all great protein sources.  All the weight lifters I know eat them.  They also eat lots of vegetables.

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## Acala

> And the carbs in fruits and vegetables give you energy.
> 
> The key is to eat the right types of carbs!


Burn fat for energy.  It is healthier.

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## evadmurd

Yep.  It's not a diet, though.  It's a healthy way of eating.  Diets don't work.

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## ShaneEnochs

I know we've established this diet is different from Atkins, but I do tell you guys my experience with the Atkins diet.

I've gone on it twice.  The first time I weighed about 230 lbs.  In the first two weeks I got down to about 215 lbs.  Pretty awesome.  But I do have an eating problem, and I began binging.  I gained all that weight back.

The second time I tried it I was at 260 lbs.  This time something went terribly wrong.  My heart started palpitating every 40 seconds or so.  It got to where my chest felt like I had been coughing for ten hours straight.  I could feel my heart stop beating for a good second and a half, and then come back with one thunderous beat.  I'm pretty sure THAT was a bad sign.  So I went to the hospital, pretty convinced that I was about to have a heart attack.  They gave me an IV, and all of a sudden the palpitations came about once an hour instead once or twice a minute.  I figure whatever was in that IV gave me whatever my body needed to get back on track.

I figure it had to do with the low carbs.  My body was NOT digging it at all.  However, maybe since you eat more fruit on the primal diet, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me.

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## ShaneEnochs

> I know we've established this diet is different from Atkins, but I do tell you guys my experience with the Atkins diet.
> 
> I've gone on it twice.  The first time I weighed about 230 lbs.  In the first two weeks I got down to about 215 lbs.  Pretty awesome.  But I do have an eating problem, and I began binging.  I gained all that weight back.
> 
> The second time I tried it I was at 260 lbs.  This time something went terribly wrong.  My heart started palpitating every 40 seconds or so.  It got to where my chest felt like I had been coughing for ten hours straight.  I could feel my heart stop beating for a good second and a half, and then come back with one thunderous beat.  I'm pretty sure THAT was a bad sign.  So I went to the hospital, pretty convinced that I was about to have a heart attack.  They gave me an IV, and all of a sudden the palpitations came about once an hour instead once or twice a minute.  I figure whatever was in that IV gave me whatever my body needed to get back on track.
> 
> I figure it had to do with the low carbs.  My body was NOT digging it at all.  However, maybe since you eat more fruit on the primal diet, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me.


One thing I want to add is when I was in the hospital I was watching the little echo-cardiogram thing and when my heart fired back up, the little line went WAY down.  I don't really know what that means, but I'm sure someone on here has some kind of medical training.

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## KingNothing

> Burn fat for energy.  It is healthier.


You've got to eat vegetables, and your body needs some fruit too.  Really, one of the best ways to keep your metabolism up and weight down is to eat fruits like apples that have a low glycemic index and lots of vegetables.  Burning fat is great, but you need to give your body the right food to make energy for it to work.

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## KingNothing

> What's wrong with chicken, eggs, and red meat?  These are all great protein sources.  All the weight lifters I know eat them.  They also eat lots of vegetables.




Are you a body builder?  If not, you don't need nearly as much protein as they're getting.

I recommend that you look into paleo, raw, and mediterranean diets.  All suggest that we're eating more meats, among other things, than we actually need.  From personal experience, I can say the strategy those diets suggest works great for me.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Yep.  It's not a diet, though.  It's a healthy way of eating.  Diets don't work.


qft.  I don't count calories or anything.  I just make ~half of my plate protein and ~half vegetables at meals, and have things like fruits, vegetables, and nuts as snacks between meals.  I usually have salad on the side, too.

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## KingNothing

> I know we've established this diet is different from Atkins, but I do tell you guys my experience with the Atkins diet.
> 
> I've gone on it twice.  The first time I weighed about 230 lbs.  In the first two weeks I got down to about 215 lbs.  Pretty awesome.  But I do have an eating problem, and I began binging.  I gained all that weight back.
> 
> The second time I tried it I was at 260 lbs.  This time something went terribly wrong.  My heart started palpitating every 40 seconds or so.  It got to where my chest felt like I had been coughing for ten hours straight.  I could feel my heart stop beating for a good second and a half, and then come back with one thunderous beat.  I'm pretty sure THAT was a bad sign.  So I went to the hospital, pretty convinced that I was about to have a heart attack.  They gave me an IV, and all of a sudden the palpitations came about once an hour instead once or twice a minute.  I figure whatever was in that IV gave me whatever my body needed to get back on track.
> 
> I figure it had to do with the low carbs.  My body was NOT digging it at all.  However, maybe since you eat more fruit on the primal diet, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me.


Interesting, and scary, story.  You should run this all by your doctor before you try anything that we're suggesting.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Are you a body builder?  If not, you don't need nearly as much protein as they're getting.
> 
> I recommend that you look into paleo, raw, and mediterranean diets.  All suggest that we're eating more meats, among other things, than we actually need.  From personal experience, I can say the strategy those diets suggest works great for me.


Amateur body-builder, but yes.  I am suggesting the paleo diet.  (See my reccomendation of "Paleo Diet for Athletes" earlier in this thread).  I agree that most eat more meat than necessary.  I didn't mean to give the impression otherwise.  Fruits and vegetables are the very alkalizing foods, and are critical.  Meat protein is somewhat acidic but also very important for me (and any athlete).

ETA: My trainer suggested the diet I'm on, which is why I eat it.  I have gained lean mass significantly on this diet.  I've made major progress and can lift more and for longer periods before muscle exhaustion.

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## heavenlyboy34

btw-if you want a starchy food that is actually good for you, I suggest yams (unsweetened).

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## Acala

> I know we've established this diet is different from Atkins, but I do tell you guys my experience with the Atkins diet.
> 
> I've gone on it twice.  The first time I weighed about 230 lbs.  In the first two weeks I got down to about 215 lbs.  Pretty awesome.  But I do have an eating problem, and I began binging.  I gained all that weight back.
> 
> The second time I tried it I was at 260 lbs.  This time something went terribly wrong.  My heart started palpitating every 40 seconds or so.  It got to where my chest felt like I had been coughing for ten hours straight.  I could feel my heart stop beating for a good second and a half, and then come back with one thunderous beat.  I'm pretty sure THAT was a bad sign.  So I went to the hospital, pretty convinced that I was about to have a heart attack.  They gave me an IV, and all of a sudden the palpitations came about once an hour instead once or twice a minute.  I figure whatever was in that IV gave me whatever my body needed to get back on track.
> 
> I figure it had to do with the low carbs.  My body was NOT digging it at all.  However, maybe since you eat more fruit on the primal diet, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me.


Sounds like you were dehydrated.

You can live very well on NO CARBS AT ALL.  Dietary carbs are unnecessary because your body can make carbs.  I'm not advocating that, just saying that if you are getting everything else you need, you will be fine with even an extremely low carb intake.

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## Acala

> You've got to eat vegetables, and your body needs some fruit too.  Really, one of the best ways to keep your metabolism up and weight down is to eat fruits like apples that have a low glycemic index and lots of vegetables.  Burning fat is great, but you need to give your body the right food to make energy for it to work.


I advocate eating LOTS of vegetables.  Fruit in moderation.  But trying to burn carbs for energy all the time is not good for your health.  It results in chronic insulin spikes, energy fluctuations, and systemic inflammation.  Your body runs better by burning fat for energy.

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## heavenlyboy34

> *Sounds like you were dehydrated.*
> 
> You can live very well on NO CARBS AT ALL.  Dietary carbs are unnecessary because your body can make carbs.  I'm not advocating that, just saying that if you are getting everything else you need, you will be fine with even an extremely low carb intake.


Excellent point.  I myself drink a LOT of water because I exert a lot of energy.  But most people would also benefit from drinking more water as well.  It's necessary to be hydrated properly for the muscles to be maintained and the body functioning well in general.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I advocate eating LOTS of vegetables.  Fruit in moderation.  But trying to burn carbs for energy all the time is not good for your health.  It results in chronic insulin spikes, energy fluctuations, and systemic inflammation.  Your body runs better by burning fat for energy.


 +1

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## ShaneEnochs

> Sounds like you were dehydrated.
> 
> You can live very well on NO CARBS AT ALL.  Dietary carbs are unnecessary because your body can make carbs.  I'm not advocating that, just saying that if you are getting everything else you need, you will be fine with even an extremely low carb intake.


I drink roughly one to two gallons of water a day.  I'm always thirsty.

And because I know someone will suggest this, I've been tested numerous times.  I'm not diabetic.

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## Luciconsort

> Too bad I like beer.


cool thing is you can have a few carbs provided they are balanced out with the fats and greens. We've been drinking beer for thousands of years.... no need to quit now

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## Acala

> I drink roughly one to two gallons of water a day.  I'm always thirsty.
> 
> And because I know someone will suggest this, I've been tested numerous times.  I'm not diabetic.


Okay.  I shouldn't be trying to diagnose you via email.  But all other things being as they should be, even extremely restrictive carb diets will not cause what you described.  

However, I do not suggest trying to "diet" to lose weight.  I suggest changing your lifestyle forever.  Eat healthy. Exercise healthy.  Live healthy.  Trying to drop weight by temporarily changing your diet rarely works.  Change the way you eat in a way that you can sustain permanently.

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## pcgame

> I know we've established this diet is different from Atkins, but I do tell you guys my experience with the Atkins diet.
> 
> I've gone on it twice.  The first time I weighed about 230 lbs.  In the first two weeks I got down to about 215 lbs.  Pretty awesome.  But I do have an eating problem, and I began binging.  I gained all that weight back.
> 
> The second time I tried it I was at 260 lbs.  This time something went terribly wrong.  My heart started palpitating every 40 seconds or so.  It got to where my chest felt like I had been coughing for ten hours straight.  I could feel my heart stop beating for a good second and a half, and then come back with one thunderous beat.  I'm pretty sure THAT was a bad sign.  So I went to the hospital, pretty convinced that I was about to have a heart attack.  They gave me an IV, and all of a sudden the palpitations came about once an hour instead once or twice a minute.  I figure whatever was in that IV gave me whatever my body needed to get back on track.
> 
> I figure it had to do with the low carbs.  My body was NOT digging it at all.  However, maybe since you eat more fruit on the primal diet, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me.


Its actually best to slowly phase yourself into low carb diets.  Don't just jump into it.  For instance each week incrementally decrease the amount of carbs you take in.  

This Paleo diet is very similar to a Ketogenic diet btw

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## trey4sports

Paleo and Raw have a lot in common. 

Both are essentially predicated on veggies and avoiding refined carbs. The biggest difference is on meat, and then of course raw foodies don't cook food above a certain temp. because it kills enzymes.

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## ShaneEnochs

> Paleo and Raw have a lot in common. 
> 
> Both are essentially predicated on veggies and avoiding refined carbs. The biggest difference is on meat, and then of course raw foodies don't cook food above a certain temp. because it kills enzymes.


Don't you have to cook meat at a certain temp to kill the stuff that will kill you?

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## trey4sports

> Don't you have to cook meat at a certain temp to kill the stuff that will kill you?


Raw foodies don't eat meat.

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## Snowball

> The diet is basically Paleo style, eliminating grains


there is no evidence of "pre-bread" human society.




> It is based in evolutionary biology


which quite possibly never happened.

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## ShaneEnochs

> Raw foodies don't eat meat.


Ahh

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## Acala

> Don't you have to cook meat at a certain temp to kill the stuff that will kill you?


Nope.  

For almost the entire history of humans, red meat was either eaten raw from the kill or after being dried in the sun.  I eat beef dried at room temperature all the time.  Tastes great!  

Raw fish = sushi.  Enough said.  

Raw pork has the potential to transmit a parasite, but even that risk has been over-stated.  Still, I don't eat raw pork.  

Not sure about raw poultry.  It is probably okay if not from a CAFO, but it is unappealing to me.

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## Freebie

It all comes back to *insulin*. 

Hormones control EVERYTHING about what the body does, how it stores energy (as fat), how it uses energy sources, what shape the body takes how it changes. All the hormones you need to be on the healthy side of that equation (HGH, leptin, testosterone/estrogen, etc.) are prevented from working right when you have excess insulin. 

*Excess Insulin comes from carbs and ONLY carbs* (with the 1 exception being dairy protein)

That excess insulin starts the process of countless diseases - obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, diabetes, etc.

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## Freebie

> well....kinda sorta.
> 
> Eating refined carbs like sugar and white flour are not good for you, not in any way. 
> 
> vegetables, whole grains and other carbs that don't spike your insulin levels are great for your body. Particularly vegetables which are antioxidant rich. 
> 
> as far as primal goes, my biggest concern is that very high protein diets have been connected to high rates of cancer and disease whereas you see the exact opposite in raw food diets.


If you have a few minutes, read this piece about the China Study that is the main backing used to make the argument that high protein diets and animal products cause cancer. It's pretty eye opening.

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## BuddyRey

What do you guys think of the Blood Type hypothesis as an indicator of what an individual's diet should be?  I've actually read that some people have evolved the gene for maintaining their health with an agrarian diet, but that this is only among a small segment of people.

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## heavenlyboy34

> It all comes back to *insulin*. 
> 
> Hormones control EVERYTHING about what the body does, how it stores energy (as fat), how it uses energy sources, what shape the body takes how it changes. All the hormones you need to be on the healthy side of that equation (HGH, leptin, testosterone/estrogen, etc.) are prevented from working right when you have excess insulin. 
> 
> *Excess Insulin comes from carbs and ONLY carbs* (with the 1 exception being dairy protein)
> 
> That excess insulin starts the process of countless diseases - obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, diabetes, etc.


qft!

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## heavenlyboy34

> What do you guys think of the Blood Type hypothesis as an indicator of what an individual's diet should be?  I've actually read that some people have evolved the gene for maintaining their health with an agrarian diet, but that this is only among a small segment of people.


I've got a copy of "The Blood Type Diet".  It's interesting.  However, if you read that book, you don't come away with a very good understanding of how various foods really affect the body.  According to that diet, folks with my blood type shouldn't eat beef.  However, I do fine with it.  It doesn't really affect me any more than other meats do.  It's more practical than diets that require calorie counting and all that.  It's still a bit too simple, though.  The author doesn't offer gender-specific advice, so men of certain blood types will end up eating quite a bit of soy (IIRC), which, in its commoner forms in the West, is deleterious to men's health.

The Paleo Diet and Paleo Diet For Athletes are better, IMO.

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## Acala

> It all comes back to *insulin*. 
> 
> Hormones control EVERYTHING about what the body does, how it stores energy (as fat), how it uses energy sources, what shape the body takes how it changes. All the hormones you need to be on the healthy side of that equation (HGH, leptin, testosterone/estrogen, etc.) are prevented from working right when you have excess insulin. 
> 
> *Excess Insulin comes from carbs and ONLY carbs* (with the 1 exception being dairy protein)
> 
> That excess insulin starts the process of countless diseases - obesity, heart disease, high cholesterol, diabetes, etc.


This ^ is pretty much it when it comes to weight loss.  Leptin, another hormone, is also an issue of concern but the remedy for leptin insensitivity is the same as for avoiding insulin spikes - control your carb intake (particularly fructose).

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## Acala

> What do you guys think of the Blood Type hypothesis as an indicator of what an individual's diet should be?  I've actually read that some people have evolved the gene for maintaining their health with an agrarian diet, but that this is only among a small segment of people.


My understanding is that it has been pretty well debunked as being devoid of any scientific basis.  I have not looked into it myself because primal/paleo seems to me to have the strongest scientific basis AND it has made a new man out of me.

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## Birdlady

> I drink roughly one to two gallons of water a day.  I'm always thirsty.
> 
> And because I know someone will suggest this, I've been tested numerous times.  I'm not diabetic.


Have you been tested for Diabetes insipidus? It's not the same as regular diabetes.

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## pcgame

I also drink at least 1.5 gallons a day.  Probably 2.5 gallons a day.

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## Acala

> I also drink at least 1.5 gallons a day.  Probably 2.5 gallons a day.


There IS such a thing as drinking too much water.

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## pcgame

I always thought about 1 gallon of h20 a day is normal and since I am big guy I can drink 1.5+.

----------


## vechorik

> There IS such a thing as drinking too much water.


Oh yes there is. I drank too much water one day and felt dizzy/sick.
Researched it and found that sure enough, even too much water can kill you!
Did you hear about the woman that DIED in a radio station's "drink the most water contest?"

----------


## Birdlady

> Oh yes there is. I drank too much water one day and felt dizzy/sick.
> Researched it and found that sure enough, even too much water can kill you!
> Did you hear about the woman that DIED in a radio station's "drink the most water contest?"


This was a little different. She was purposely holding her bladder, so her blood sodium levels dropped and brain swelled. 

But it is true. The most common way to get water intoxication is drinking tons of water after sweating a lot. You have to replace electrolytes along with the water. It's the imbalance of electrolytes that makes water "toxic" in large quantities.

----------


## JudgeNapFan

How do you replenish electrolytes without drinking sweet drinks like Gatorade?  Don't want to add the calories I just burned off.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> How do you replenish electrolytes without drinking sweet drinks like Gatorade?  Don't want to add the calories I just burned off.


Fruit juice is good for fuel when burning a lot of energy (like on hot days or intense work).  I personally prefer water, though.  I know other weight lifters who drink "recovery drinks" after a workout...but too pricey for my blood.

----------


## vechorik

Hubby and I went primal about a month ago. Tossed our statin drugs!
Time will tell.

I need to lose weight, but hubby is skinny. I must say, I'm NEVER hungry eating primal.
Fat and meat go a very long way in keeping hunger at bay.
I'm logging my food to see exactly what nutrients, fat, protein I'm eating, etc.
It's amazing that my calories are so low, yet I feel so satisfied.
Some days, I have to MAKE myself eat something to up my calorie level.

You liberty people already know how the government lies. You wouldn't be surprised, would you, to learn that they lied to America about their diet?
Great movie reveals all -- "Fat Head" --- shows all the government lies when it comes to eating/health/food pyramid/cholesterol..... on and on.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Hubby and I went primal about a month ago. Tossed our statin drugs!
> Time will tell.
> 
> I need to lose weight, but hubby is skinny. I must say, I'm NEVER hungry eating primal.
> Fat and meat go a very long way in keeping hunger at bay.
> I'm logging my food to see exactly what nutrients, fat, protein I'm eating, etc.
> It's amazing that my calories are so low, yet I feel so satisfied.
> Some days, I have to MAKE myself eat something to up my calorie level.
> 
> ...


+rep  Fat Head is awesome too.

----------


## Birdlady

> How do you replenish electrolytes without drinking sweet drinks like Gatorade?  Don't want to add the calories I just burned off.


Well you could just put some sea salt in water. When I say some, I mean like 1/4 teaspoon. You don't want to be drinking salt water....lol  They also make electrolyte powders which are meant to be added into water too. Like this one http://www.amazon.com/Hammer-Endurol.../dp/B001AX8JF4

----------


## anaconda

> Sounds like a variation of the Atkins diet.


Paleo is not trying to eliminate carbs. Fruits are fine. But they are trying to eliminate legumes, grains, and correct the hugely out-of-whack ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 fatty acids that modern western diets have developed. But the latter requires eating almost no processed oils or factory farmed meats fed on grain and corn. But, rather, eating grass fed meats or wild fish, and cooking in coconut oil or lard or tallow from grass fed animals.

----------


## anaconda

> I'm 8 days in and feeling great. i can tell already the hardest part is finding sources of natural/organic foods so that I am never tempted to eat a barcode again!


It's not only about "organic." There are tons of "organic" meats out there that are raised on grain, and therefore have a terrible Omega-6:3 ratio. You can correct for this by buying 100% grass fed beef, pork, lamb, chicken, goat, etc. It's more expensive in terms of $$$. Wild salmon is good. Look into fish oil supplements. I started paleo about 10 days ago and I am intrigued with this product since it undergoes no heating process or chemical refinement:

http://www.vitalchoice.com/shop/pc/v...idcategory=239

----------


## anaconda

> I read about this diet about five years ago and have been doing a variant of it ever since.  I just call it "common sense."  Vegetables good.  Processed food and sugars are bad.
> 
> Count your calories, and pack a lot of nutrients into your meals and you'll be fine.


Are you concerned about your Omega-3 to Omega-6 fatty acid ratio?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's funny, 2 of my biggest interests lately have been RP/Liberty and Primal eating/lifestyle. Looks like Tom Woods is bringing the 2 together as well!
> 
> http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/going-primal/
> 
> The diet is basically Paleo style, eliminating grains and processed carbs, and embracing vegetables and high fat/protein animal foods. I just finished reading the book, and the science is very solid. It is based in evolutionary biology and working with your hormones, not against them. Also, the takes on exercise and lifestyle are great and scientifically sound. 
> 
> Any other Primal folks here on RPF?


If it is based on evolution, then it is a biased view of health.  I think the evolutionary view of the world is deeply flawed and not backed by science, so I would question the validity of any health program based on evolution.  What's more, it commits the is-aught fallacy.  Just because our "ancestors" ate certain things, that doesn't mean it's what we should eat.  Also, our ancestors may not be what evolutionists think they were, so trying to make your diet simple in that context means absolutely nothing.  

Real health advice is based on what the body has demonstrated it needs, not what our history is.  It really shouldn't matter.  You don't see a "creation diet" fad.  That's because we don't have to study our origins to know what is good for us.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I tend to err on the side of a more raw foods lifestyle as opposed to primal.


Eating raw is ALWAYS better than following any of these diets that base the whole thing on elimination of a certain kind of food.  Carbs have their place.  If you look in natural, non-meat sources for your food, you will be better off.  Diet perfection, of course, requires much more knowledge than just what you find in nature, and breaks down certain food groups, but trying to restrict yourself on one certain thing that you find in food is a very narrow view.  People don't understand as much as they think they do about what happens to food in the body.  It can appear harmful at first and then turn out to be a benefit.

----------


## vechorik

> Are you concerned about your Omega-3 to Omega-6 fatty acid ratio?


Study up on it and you'll discover the "magic cholesterol" number is more complicated than you think.
The movie "Fat Head" not only exposes the lies, the guy did a 30-day demonstration by eating at McDonald's everyday (the entire point is to expose the "McDonald's makes you fat movie") and the organization behind the low-fat craze.

----------


## vechorik

Speaking of liberty and diet:

NC State Threatens to Shut Down Nutrition Blogger (Paleo)
Nutrition board says he needs a license to advocate dietary approaches


http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclu...e.html?id=8992

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I read about this diet about five years ago and have been doing a variant of it ever since.  I just call it "common sense."  Vegetables good.  Processed food and sugars are bad.
> 
> Count your calories, and pack a lot of nutrients into your meals and you'll be fine.


Don't get me wrong, this is a great strategy, but I just don't rely on the world "Paleo" as if it meant something.  I agree with much of what the diet is about, but I am inherently distrustful of these systems "this good-that bad" diets.  Eat raw vegan, and everything else takes care of itself.  You just have to make sure you are balancing your vitamins and minerals right by choosing the right sources, and you should be good.  Don't worry about consuming or not consuming cholesterol, carbs, or fats. Just get the right balance from raw, natural sources, and you don't have to worry about how it breaks down in your body.  

Also, this goes a bit deeper, but mixing the right foods is important.  If you are having fruits (no need to concern yourself with how much sugar it contains as long as you are getting enough in nominal units but not too much), it is important to wait an hour before eating other types of foods (there are a few classifications, such as grains, veggies, proteins, and, believe it or not, melons).  Melons are different from fruits and include honeydew, cantelope, and watermelon.  Vegetables and proteins can be mixed, but grains and proteins (bread and meat or nuts) should not be mixed.  

Also, a very good bit of advice is not to have liquids when you are eating meat.  They dilute the proteins in the stomach that digest the meat and can really hold up your system.  It is best to wait 1 hour between having meat and drinking.  If not an hour, the more time the better.  I have always noticed that, if I eat meat and drink too close together, some of it starts to come up and I feel queasy.  It is not a good idea to drink a lot of anything while you are eating, but especially while you are eating meat.  Of course, this assumes you are going to eat meat.  If you feel you can keep up with the demands of a limited raw vegan diet, then you will definitely feel better as a result, but it is very hard to expect people to limit themselves that much.  Most importantly, though, it is important to avoid dairy products.  That is the one thing that I have usually tried to stick with because I can deal with that, and avoiding them can be very beneficial.  My sinuses have never been clearer as when I avoided dairy products, and that was for about 3 years straight.  It got way too hard in college, but at home it wasn't that hard at all.  

Also, if you want to hear why I believe in raw vegan, I will tell you.  In 2006, I went straight up vegan and mostly raw for about 4-5months.  Although it was sometimes very hard to find enough calories without being overly redundant and sacrificing diversity, when I did find enough, I had never felt better in my life.  One instance is when I had been following the diet for about 3 months.  I was a runner back then, and during a high school cross country race, I literally had boundless energy.  It was like nothing I'd ever experienced in my life.  I ran to the point where my muscles simply couldn't stretch any farther, but I still was not tired.  I ran as hard as I could and my body simply refused to feel any sense of fatigue.  No burning muscles, no labored breathing, just fluid movement.  The only thing that was limiting me was my range of motion in my muscles.  I went up hills as fast as I could and barely felt any difference to when I was on flat ground, and I sprinted without being able to feel any sense of fatigue.  I stopped running at the end of the race and felt like I had went for a light walk.  There were at least a few races that I felt especially good in, but that one was unlike anything I had ever experienced.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I drink roughly one to two gallons of water a day.  I'm always thirsty.
> 
> And because I know someone will suggest this, I've been tested numerous times.  I'm not diabetic.


One to two GALLONS?  I would get that checked out, because something has to be wrong for you to be THAT thirsty.  I drank about a gallon per day when I was following a strenuous exercise plan.  And by strenuous, I don't mean average Joe's idea of strenuous.  I mean pro-athlete type strenuous work during hot weather.  If you weren't doing something similar, then your body is not very efficient at hydrating itself.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> If it is based on evolution, then it is a biased view of health.


 You might enjoy Gary North's take on it, then:

http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1126.html

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Oh yes there is. I drank too much water one day and felt dizzy/sick.
> Researched it and found that sure enough, even too much water can kill you!
> Did you hear about the woman that DIED in a radio station's "drink the most water contest?"


I've heard about that.  Have you heard about the frat boy who got initiated by standing on a bench and chugging water continuously?  He ended up having about 60 gallons and died tragically and terribly in the basement of a frat house.

He pissed on the floor, so he wasn't holding his bladder, so you can still die from too much water even without holding your bladder, as I saw mentioned above.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Study up on it and you'll discover the "magic cholesterol" number is more complicated than you think.
> The movie "Fat Head" not only exposes the lies, the guy did a 30-day demonstration by eating at McDonald's everyday (the entire point is to expose the "McDonald's makes you fat movie") and the organization behind the low-fat craze.


What was the point of eating at McDonald's every day?  Wasn't there a movie on that exact same thing called "Supersize Me"?

----------


## vechorik

> What was the point of eating at McDonald's every day?  Wasn't there a movie on that exact same thing called "Supersize Me"?


Yep -- and it's all a lie. That's why "Fat Head" was made. To expose "Supersize Me" -- agenda and to prove it (with tests, history (of corruption) and science)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You might enjoy Gary North's take on it, then:
> 
> http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1126.html


I thoroughly enjoyed that article, and I agree.  Thanks for sharing.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yep -- and it's all a lie. That's why "Fat Head" was made. To expose "Supersize Me" -- agenda and to prove it (with tests, history (of corruption) and science)


You can't possibly be claiming that McDonald's is healthy.

----------


## specsaregood

> You can't possibly be claiming that McDonald's is healthy.


Mcdonald's doesn't have to be healthy in order to show that "supersize me" was a load of exaggerated crap.

----------


## Hitman83

> You can't possibly be claiming that McDonald's is healthy.


No way.  McDonald's does serve unhealthy stuff, but part of the point of the movie was to show the severe bias done in Supersize Me.  He shows that you can lose weight eating at McDonald's and actually be healthy, but it comes down to choices and exercise.  His other major point in the movie was to show the history of propaganda and mis-information used to push low-fat diets.  It centers around the bad conclusions taken out of the Lipid Hypothesis.

----------


## Dsylexic

i am indian (dot not red).my ancestors have been yogurt+rice eating high iq,low disease,80+ living people for so many generations now.maybe primal is good for inuits(who die at 40 btw).different diets for different people. there is nothing primal about eating meat.
i'd say,eat food that is relevant to your culture,climate and lifestyle.

----------


## Hitman83

> i am indian (dot not red).my ancestors have been yogurt+rice eating high iq,low disease,80+ living people for so many generations now.maybe primal is good for inuits(who die at 40 btw).different diets for different people. there is nothing primal about eating meat.
> i'd say,eat food that is relevant to your culture,climate and lifestyle.


Yogurt and raw dairy are still primal.

"Raw, fermented, full-fat dairy is probably best.

Tons of traditional, fairly disease-free groups lived with dairy (just as tons of traditional, fairly disease-free groups lived without it), and they all included some form of fermented or cultured product. Cultured butter, yogurt, kefir, clotted milk, cheese – these are traditional ways of increasing shelf life, improving digestibility, and incorporating beneficial probiotics into the gut. Fermentation takes care of most of the lactose, and some posit that it may even positively alter the structure, function, and safety of casein."

hxxp://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#ixzz1tX9P04w8

Rice is a lot more grey area.  It depends on if the hull is removed or not, the quantity eaten, the frequency, the rest of your diet, exercise and activity levels, and how it is prepared (with natural oils and animal fats or with vegetable seed oils high in omega-6).  I'm not sure where you fall in all that, though.  White rice in asian cultures is typically in low serving size accompanied by lots of vegetables, fish, and more offal meats than Western diets (I'm guessing way more veggies than meats in your case).

hxxp://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-unhealthy/#axzz1tX9rgXQG
hxxp://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-asian-paradox-how-can-asians-eat-so-much-rice-and-not-gain-weight/

I guess you can see that I like Mark Sisson. Lol.

----------


## Hitman83

I couldn't find a solid life expectancy measure for Inuit.  The best I could find saying it was in the 40s was a study showing that they had avg lifespan of 43.5, but WAAAAY back in the 1820s (hxxp://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-lifespan-of-inuit.html).  The most recent I could find was from 1991 showing a life expectancy in Inuit inhabited areas to be 68 years (hxxp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18457208).  Main contributors to death for Inuit in their history were disease brought on by Russian settlers, stupidity from things like hanging from ropes over high cliffs to get bird eggs, and suicide.  Not sure if all those are still current contributors though.

I found the life expectancy of India to be 64.8, though. 
hxxp://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idi  m=country:IND&dl=en&hl=en&q=life+expectancy+in+ind  ia

----------


## vechorik

Interesting read: Heart surgeon admits the American diet is ALL WRONG!

http://coconutoil.com/heart-surgeon-...heart-disease/

----------


## AcousticFoodie

@vechorik:

It's actually nothing new, we ate much less grains before government involvement by the McGovern commission recommending that American eat low saturated fat and cholesterol in the _Dietary guidelines for America_ which would eventually lead to the food pyramid. Even when studies would show that saturated fat really wasn't that big of a deal the government tried to prevent this knowledge from getting out. Here is a good example:

http://thefatnurse.wordpress.com/201...saturated-fat/

----------


## anaconda

> Study up on it and you'll discover the "magic cholesterol" number is more complicated than you think.
> The movie "Fat Head" not only exposes the lies, the guy did a 30-day demonstration by eating at McDonald's everyday (the entire point is to expose the "McDonald's makes you fat movie") and the organization behind the low-fat craze.


I was talking about this issue, which I've recently discovered and am intrigued and concerned with:

http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/0...-get-it-right/

http://theconsciouslife.com/anti-inf...ega-6-fats.htm

Also I noticed that the link you posted above (coconut oil heart surgeon) mentions Omega 6 numerous times.

----------


## anaconda

> Rice is a lot more grey area.  It depends on if the hull is removed or not, the quantity eaten, the frequency, the rest of your diet, exercise and activity levels, and how it is prepared (with natural oils and animal fats or with vegetable seed oils high in omega-6).


Here's a fascinating take on white rice vs. brown rice (that white rice is way better):

http://paleodietnews.com/2534/paleo-...rice-question/

----------


## Karsten

Why are libertarians of all people so evangelical about telling me how I ought to eat????  I'll eat what I want to eat, thank you very much!  Pasta?  You bet!  Fast food? I call it capitalism!

Organic food? I call it bull$#@!.
How about I have my liberty loving friends Penn and Teller spell it out for you.

----------


## kuckfeynes

> Why are libertarians of all people so evangelical about telling me how I ought to eat????  I'll eat what I want to eat, thank you very much!  Pasta?  You bet!  Fast food? I call it capitalism!
> 
> Organic food? I call it bull$#@!.
> How about I have my liberty loving friends Penn and Teller spell it out for you.


Why would I not tell you what you ought to eat if I think it will improve your quality of life?
Now, if I tried to force you to eat a certain way through laws, that would be pretty anti-liberty of me.
And I don't think anyone here will argue with you that "organic" and other industry buzzwords are often a big marketing scam.
But that doesn't disqualify the concept of eating organically.

----------


## PatriotOne

I just started the Atkins again 15 days ago.  I had done it before with fantastic results.  Never been in better health that when I stopped eating carbs for over 2 yrs.  And I mean stopped altogether.  If I had 5 carbs a day, that was splurging.  I was a lean, mean, energetic machine with blood pressure of ~86/64 and my cholesteral levels, and I quote my doctor, "that of a 5 yr old".

After going off Atkins, and about 40 lbs for my mistake now, I just went back on it.  My carb cravings had become ridiculous again and a never ending roller coaster,  Eat carbs, crave carbs an hour later.  Eat carbs again, crave them again an hour later. And on and on and on.  Desperately needing a nap in the afternoon.  Short bursts of energy only to feel fatigued after 30 minutes of whatever.

So I'm going to report how my 15 days have gone so far.  The first week was a bit tough.  Not because I was hungry after eating meat, vegetables, eggs, cheese, etc.  Quite the opposite.  I was quite full but I still had cravings for carbs.  I had to eat alot of the right foods just to counteract the cravings of the carbs.  Be so stuffed the thought of any more food, even carbs was unpleasant.  The second week, the carb cravings started subsiding so not much of a problem but I was still eating quite a bit of good food the first few days of the week.  Well hallejuah!  The last 3 days I get a bit hungry around 9 or 10 a.m. and eat some eggs or meat and a veg and don't even think about food until around 6 or 7 at night.  Tonight I had to force myself to eat some roast and cauliflower.  I'm fully satisfied and could have probably done without the califlower.  My energy levels are way up.  That afternoon nap isn't on my wish list anymore.  I don't feel bloated.  All kinds of good things are happening again and I like it!  I already feel like a different person.  Carbs make me feel like crap.  Love the taste of them but they seriously make me feel like crap.  The withdrawals were rough but one week is worth every freakin second to get them out of my system!

----------


## PatriotOne

> Why are libertarians of all people so evangelical about telling me how I ought to eat????  I'll eat what I want to eat, thank you very much!  Pasta?  You bet!  Fast food? I call it capitalism!


Sharing information to help the public educate themselves is quite Libertarian.  We won't force you to eat healthy.  Feel free to kill yourself or make yourself sick with all the carbs/junk food you want.  That will show us who is boss eh!  Just don't ask us to foot your hospital bill dumbass and we won't complain.

----------


## Henry Rogue

Originally posted by slamhead 


> I wonder if your appendix will start to do something on that diet.


Thats funny.

----------


## Acala

> Why are libertarians of all people so evangelical about telling me how I ought to eat????  I'll eat what I want to eat, thank you very much!  Pasta?  You bet!  Fast food? I call it capitalism!
> 
> Organic food? I call it bull$#@!.
> How about I have my liberty loving friends Penn and Teller spell it out for you.


You SHOULD eat what you want.  The less wholesome, organic food YOU eat, the cheaper it is for me.  But I suggest you might not want to take advice on eating from Penn.  Dude is a good 75 pounds overweight, last time I saw him.

----------


## ZenBowman

> You might enjoy Gary North's take on it, then:
> 
> http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1126.html


Perhaps the stupidest thing I've read in years.

I'd suggest he read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price, but based on what I read, its pretty obvious that he sticks to the fantasy genre (religious texts).

----------


## TCE

> I just started the Atkins again 15 days ago.  I had done it before with fantastic results.  Never been in better health that when I stopped eating carbs for over 2 yrs.  And I mean stopped altogether.  If I had 5 carbs a day, that was splurging.  I was a lean, mean, energetic machine with blood pressure of ~86/64 and my cholesteral levels, and I quote my doctor, "that of a 5 yr old".
> 
> After going off Atkins, and about 40 lbs for my mistake now, I just went back on it.  My carb cravings had become ridiculous again and a never ending roller coaster,  Eat carbs, crave carbs an hour later.  Eat carbs again, crave them again an hour later. And on and on and on.  Desperately needing a nap in the afternoon.  Short bursts of energy only to feel fatigued after 30 minutes of whatever.
> 
> So I'm going to report how my 15 days have gone so far.  The first week was a bit tough.  Not because I was hungry after eating meat, vegetables, eggs, cheese, etc.  Quite the opposite.  I was quite full but I still had cravings for carbs.  I had to eat alot of the right foods just to counteract the cravings of the carbs.  Be so stuffed the thought of any more food, even carbs was unpleasant.  The second week, the carb cravings started subsiding so not much of a problem but I was still eating quite a bit of good food the first few days of the week.  Well hallejuah!  The last 3 days I get a bit hungry around 9 or 10 a.m. and eat some eggs or meat and a veg and don't even think about food until around 6 or 7 at night.  Tonight I had to force myself to eat some roast and cauliflower.  I'm fully satisfied and could have probably done without the califlower.  My energy levels are way up.  That afternoon nap isn't on my wish list anymore.  I don't feel bloated.  All kinds of good things are happening again and I like it!  I already feel like a different person.  Carbs make me feel like crap.  Love the taste of them but they seriously make me feel like crap.  The withdrawals were rough but one week is worth every freakin second to get them out of my system!


+Rep. 

Please keep us updated. I am considering doing the low-carb thing myself and your post nudged me a bit further in that direction. I don't have much weight to lose, perhaps 10 lbs, but from research I've been doing, it seems it is far healthier than the high-carb, low fat diet the USDA and American Dietetic Association parrot.

What got me interested first was that someone said, "Look, Josh, you're a libertarian, right? You believe virtually everything the government tells you is a lie, correct? Well, the government says you should eat a high-carb, low fat diet to stay healthy. You think they're telling you the truth this one time?"

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Perhaps the stupidest thing I've read in years.
> 
> I'd suggest he read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price, but based on what I read, its pretty obvious that he sticks to the fantasy genre (religious texts).


Another problem with North's argument is that the "Darwinist" part of it is just a red herring.  I suspect he hasn't read The "Paleo Diet" book.  It is based on a lot of anthropological studies, but not Darwinist theory.  Nothing in the book contradicts the bible-which is why Lance Dreher (long time pro weight lifter, devout Christian, and now a trainer-who I've met in person  ) uses it.

----------


## PatriotOne

> +Rep. 
> 
> Please keep us updated. I am considering doing the low-carb thing myself and your post nudged me a bit further in that direction. I don't have much weight to lose, perhaps 10 lbs, but from research I've been doing, it seems it is far healthier than the high-carb, low fat diet the USDA and American Dietetic Association parrot.
> 
> What got me interested first was that someone said, "Look, Josh, you're a libertarian, right? You believe virtually everything the government tells you is a lie, correct? Well, the government says you should eat a high-carb, low fat diet to stay healthy. You think they're telling you the truth this one time?"


It is going GREAT!  I can't tell you how much of a difference it's made already.  I can hardly believe how much my appetite has gone down.  No more eating for the sake of stuffing a carb in my mouth because of the cravings.  Carbs trigger hunger pangs whether you are hungry or not.  I don't even think about it.  I eat around 9 or 10 and again around 7ish.  Not because I am forcing myself to starve but because I am just not hungry or even thinking about food.  Had some chicken and brocoli around10ish today and it's 5:20 now.  Dreading having to eat dinner because I'm just not hungry.  Maybe I'll just have a tablespoon of peanut butter later....lol.

With only 10 lbs to lose, maybe you should look at Primal instead of Atkins.  Atkins induction is hardcore weight loss.  I'll go Primal when I get down to my goal.  Both are low carb but Atkins Induction strictness isn't necessary for your goal.  I'd love to hear how it goes for you if you go for it.  Energy wise there is nooooooooo comparison to eating carbs and not eating carbs.  It's night and day.  Though you will go through about a week or two of low energy while getting them out of your system.  You should pick up an Atkins book and read it for the science.  It's an interesting read.

----------


## TCE

> It is going GREAT!  I can't tell you how much of a difference it's made already.  I can hardly believe how much my appetite has gone down.  No more eating for the sake of stuffing a carb in my mouth because of the cravings.  Carbs trigger hunger pangs whether you are hungry or not.  I don't even think about it.  I eat around 9 or 10 and again around 7ish.  Not because I am forcing myself to starve but because I am just not hungry or even thinking about food.  Had some chicken and brocoli around10ish today and it's 5:20 now.  Dreading having to eat dinner because I'm just not hungry.  Maybe I'll just have a tablespoon of peanut butter later....lol.
> 
> With only 10 lbs to lose, maybe you should look at Primal instead of Atkins.  Atkins induction is hardcore weight loss.  I'll go Primal when I get down to my goal.  Both are low carb but Atkins Induction strictness isn't necessary for your goal.  I'd love to hear how it goes for you if you go for it.  Energy wise there is nooooooooo comparison to eating carbs and not eating carbs.  It's night and day.  Though you will go through about a week or two of low energy while getting them out of your system.  You should pick up an Atkins book and read it for the science.  It's an interesting read.


I'm glad to hear it! I am almost finished with _Living Low Carb_ (Living Low Carb by Jonny Bowden), and he is a huge Atkins proponent. I was looking to get Atkins's 2002 updated version, Protein Power by Mike and Mary Dan Eades (Protein Power), and The Rosedale Diet (The Rosedale Diet). 

I look forward to a ton of good low-carb information. Your results after just 20 days are amazing.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I'm glad to hear it! I am almost finished with _Living Low Carb_ (Living Low Carb by Jonny Bowden), and he is a huge Atkins proponent. I was looking to get Atkins's 2002 updated version, Protein Power by Mike and Mary Dan Eades (Protein Power), and The Rosedale Diet (The Rosedale Diet). 
> 
> I look forward to a ton of good low-carb information. Your results after just 20 days are amazing.


I'm always thrilled when someone is looking into low carb.  I know what amazing results and how healthy I was when I did it before (prob close to 10 yrs total before I fell off the wagon).  You might find this recent interview interesting.  You have to be a member for the 2nd hr but the first hr was really good too:

*William Davis - The Dangers of Wheat*

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...RIR-120429.php

+ rep to you for your distrust of "conventional science" and being open minded enough to look into it.

----------


## TCE

> I'm always thrilled when someone is looking into low carb.  I know what amazing results and how healthy I was when I did it before (prob close to 10 yrs total before I fell off the wagon).  You might find this recent interview interesting.  You have to be a member for the 2nd hr but the first hr was really good too:
> 
> *William Davis - The Dangers of Wheat*
> 
> http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...RIR-120429.php
> 
> + rep to you for your distrust of "conventional science" and being open minded enough to look into it.


I have downloaded it and put it on my iPod*. Will listen to it within the next couple days. 

* Yes, I still have an iPod. I happen to still believe it is 2007, and in my 2007 reality, iPods are still cool.

EDIT: I Googled Dr. Davis. His blog seems interesting so far: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/

EDIT #2: Am I right in thinking avocados are a "good fat" and acceptable to eat?

----------


## PatriotOne

> I have downloaded it and put it on my iPod*. Will listen to it within the next couple days. 
> 
> * Yes, I still have an iPod. I happen to still believe it is 2007, and in my 2007 reality, iPods are still cool.


hahahaha....don't feel bad.  I've never owned an iPod.  The most recent innovation I bought to listen to music was one of those round cd players with earphones .




> EDIT #2: Am I right in thinking avocados are a "good fat" and acceptable to eat?


yes.  along with real butter, mayo, many oils, nuts, etc.

----------


## PatriotOne

TCE.....

Here is the list of foods you can eat in Phase 1 (Induction) of Atkins:

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase-...his-Phase.aspx

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> I have downloaded it and put it on my iPod*. Will listen to it within the next couple days. 
> 
> * Yes, I still have an iPod. I happen to still believe it is 2007, and in my 2007 reality, iPods are still cool.
> 
> EDIT: I Googled Dr. Davis. His blog seems interesting so far: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/
> 
> EDIT #2: Am I right in thinking avocados are a "good fat" and acceptable to eat?


Yes, avacados are a great source of healthy fats.

Earlier in this thread someone suggested eating fewer eggs. But eggs - yolks and all - are one of the most nutritious things you can eat. Especially free-range eggs, which taste far better than industrial eggs, btw.

I am following Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint. Been on it for a couple of weeks now and I really do feel much better in many ways. I have none of the digestive issues I had when eating grains. My energy levels are steady and even throughout the day. I do not feel hungry or deprived in any way.

 I highly recommend the Primal Blueprint and suggest that anyone who doubts it should read the book or at least do some reading at marksdailyapple.com. Arguments against it based on Conventional Wisdom just aren't going to fly.

Speaking of Conventional Wisdom, how much comes from the American Dietetic Association (ADA)? A lot, I'm sure. But do you know that the ADA has corporate sponsors and these sponsors include Pepsi and Kellogs? It's true. They are listed on the ADA's web site.

----------


## Acala

As has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum, the problem with Atkins is that it is focused on the single category of macronutrient - carbs.  And it is certainly a good thing to step smartly away from the hyper-carb Standard American Diet (SAD).  But there is more to healthy eating:

1. managing your essential fatty acid balance
2. avoiding rancid oils
3. avoiding questionable synthetic compounds (like splenda and BPA)
4. getting lots of micronutrients through dietary diversity
5. paying attention to the manner in which your food was raised - it matters.

I am a Primal/Mark Sisson advocate.

----------


## TCE

PatriotOne: Much appreciated. I will +Rep you again as soon as I "spread some around." 

ShowMeLiberty: Agreed. The more research is done, the more it seems as if eggs are actually a health food. The yolk itself contains a lot of great things. However, the more conventional doctors, such as the Mayo Clinic, decry the egg as a food that can raise cholesterol to dangerous levels. The controversy continues! If it wasn't obvious, I am much more of a believer in the first camp.

As far as my low-carb update goes: I have completely dumped bread, tortillas, pitas, cereal, pizzas, pastas, cranberry sauce, and all other processed sugar as of yesterday, so today marks my second full day. For breakfast I have been making shakes based largely on coconut milk with a ton of ground flax seed thrown in. They are flavored by a few strawberries and a small piece of banana, because those are the major carb portions. Also threw in a couple of eggs for good measure. Not nearly as hungry as I was same time last week eating four pieces of toast with jelly.

----------


## PatriotOne

> ShowMeLiberty: Agreed. The more research is done, the more it seems as if eggs are actually a health food. The yolk itself contains a lot of great things. However, the more conventional doctors, such as the Mayo Clinic, decry the egg as a food that can raise cholesterol to dangerous levels. The controversy continues! If it wasn't obvious, I am much more of a believer in the first camp.


When I did Atkins before, eggs were a *huge* part of my daily diet.  I ate omelets, deviled eggs, soft boiled eggs, or scrambled eggs, etc. on a daily basis.  3 eggs per day was the norm.  I figure I ate well over 2000 eggs in 2 yrs.  Like I mentioned above, when I had my physical after 2 yrs of Atkins, I had, and I quote the doctor, _"the cholesteral level of a 5 yr old_".  Maybe if you eat that many eggs on top of a high carb diet it interacts differently, but doing Atkins again, I have no fear of the egg yolk .

----------


## PatriotOne

> As far as my low-carb update goes: I have completely dumped bread, tortillas, pitas, cereal, pizzas, pastas, cranberry sauce, and all other processed sugar as of yesterday, so today marks my second full day. For breakfast I have been making shakes based largely on coconut milk with a ton of ground flax seed thrown in. They are flavored by a few strawberries and a small piece of banana, because those are the major carb portions. Also threw in a couple of eggs for good measure. Not nearly as hungry as I was same time last week eating four pieces of toast with jelly.


Awesome!  With the added fruit, etc., you have gone low carb light but since you only had 10 lbs to lose that's awesome.  Have you tried Almond milk yet?  I love it!  The *unsweetened* Almond milk is REALLY low carb and delicious!  *1 carb per cup of milk*.


Silk Pure Almond® Unsweetened Almondmilk

http://www.silkpurealmond.com/products/#

p.s. - you may start going thorugh carb withdrawals soon.  Eating a piece of bread, etc., may occupy your thoughts for the most part of the day.  Don't go hungry.  If you get hungry (as opposed to just cravings)  eat a big ole juicy steak or what ever piece of meat your heart desires.  You can eat all the unprocessed meat you want.  Hang in there.  I promise it will pass in a week or two and they will not be an issue.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Awesome!  With the added fruit, etc., you have gone low carb light but since you only had 10 lbs to lose that's awesome.  Have you tried Almond milk yet?  I love it!  The *unsweetened* Almond milk is REALLY low carb and delicious!  *1 carb per cup of milk*.
> 
> 
> Silk Pure Almond® Unsweetened Almondmilk
> 
> http://www.silkpurealmond.com/products/#
> 
> p.s. - you may start going thorugh carb withdrawals soon.  Eating a piece of bread, etc., may occupy your thoughts for the most part of the day.  Don't go hungry.  If you get hungry (as opposed to just cravings)  eat a big ole juicy steak or what ever piece of meat your heart desires.  You can eat all the unprocessed meat you want.  Hang in there.  I promise it will pass in a week or two and they will not be an issue.


Do you use almond milk in coffee? How is it compared to say, half & half as far as thickness and taste? I haven't bought any almond milk yet, though they have it in one of my local grocery stores. I haven't used regular milk for anything other than cooking and the rare bowl of cereal in years. And now that I'm not eating cereal, I've been hesitant to buy almond milk thinking it would mostly go to waste.

I didn't have a problem with carb withdrawal, really. A small handful of macadamia nuts or a little serving of trail mix knocked it right out. And I'm not missing grains at all since a couple of experiments have convinced me that I'm sensitive to gluten and even to corn. If I pass on those things I feel a whole lot better.

Also wanted to mention, for any who aren't aware of it, a great web site: www.paleotrack.com. You sign up and get to create your own personal daily food journal (even add your own custom recipes or foods that aren't already in the database) and the site helps you track your percentages and amounts of carbs, proteins, fats, calories, and omega-6 to omega-3 balance, among other things. It has been a tremendous help to me (since I'm trying to lose some weight) in keeping my carbs at or below 100 grams per day. I've been on track with very low carb counts for at least five straight days now. Highly recommend the site to paleo/primal newbs like me.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Do you use almond milk in coffee? How is it compared to say, half & half as far as thickness and taste? I haven't bought any almond milk yet, though they have it in one of my local grocery stores. I haven't used regular milk for anything other than cooking and the rare bowl of cereal in years. And now that I'm not eating cereal, I've been hesitant to buy almond milk thinking it would mostly go to waste.
> 
> I didn't have a problem with carb withdrawal, really. A small handful of macadamia nuts or a little serving of trail mix knocked it right out. And I'm not missing grains at all since a couple of experiments have convinced me that I'm sensitive to gluten and even to corn. If I pass on those things I feel a whole lot better.
> 
> Also wanted to mention, for any who aren't aware of it, a great web site: www.paleotrack.com. You sign up and get to create your own personal daily food journal (even add your own custom recipes or foods that aren't already in the database) and the site helps you track your percentages and amounts of carbs, proteins, fats, calories, and omega-6 to omega-3 balance, among other things. It has been a tremendous help to me (since I'm trying to lose some weight) in keeping my carbs at or below 100 grams per day. I've been on track with very low carb counts for at least five straight days now. Highly recommend the site to paleo/primal newbs like me.


I tried almond milk in my coffee and the combo was awful.  Almond milk is creamier than milk so I thought it would be really good but I was wrong.  I use unwhipped heavy whipping cream - 1 carb per tablespoon (that's what Atkins suggests) and stevia in my coffee.  Now that is yummy!

Paleotrack sounds interesting.  I'm going to take a look.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> I tried almond milk in my coffee and the combo was awful.  Almond milk is creamier than milk so I thought it would be really good but I was wrong.  I use unwhipped heavy whipping cream - 1 carb per tablespoon (that's what Atkins suggests) and stevia in my coffee.  Now that is yummy!
> 
> Paleotrack sounds interesting.  I'm going to take a look.


Glad I asked - yikes!

I've been using an organic half & half rather than heavy whipping cream, mainly because of the price difference. I guess I'll just stick with that.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Glad I asked - yikes!
> 
> I've been using an organic half & half rather than heavy whipping cream, mainly because of the price difference. I guess I'll just stick with that.


I use to use half and half also because of the price until I bought some heavy whipping cream one day just to try it.  I found out that I only had to use about 1 tbls of heavy whipping cream in a cup of coffee to get basically the same effect as using 2 tbls of half and half.  I save a bit in carbs and basically end up paying the same price since I only use 1/2 as much.  Plus the heavy whipping cream did taste better.  It doesn't water the coffee down as much and I like a strong cup of coffee.  Not knocking half and half...it's great also.

----------


## PatriotOne

Loving the paleotrack site!  Awesome that it keeps track of your nutrients/carbs etc.!  I'm going to try using it.

+rep!

----------


## PatriotOne

SML

There is a blog tab on the paleotrack site.  I keep getting an error when I try to go into it.  2 questions....

1.  Does that blog tab normally work?

2.  Is that a place where I can blog or does it go to Mark's blog?

I'd love to be able to blog my low carb adventure there if that's an option.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> SML
> 
> There is a blog tab on the paleotrack site.  I keep getting an error when I try to go into it.  2 questions....
> 
> 1.  Does that blog tab normally work?
> 
> 2.  Is that a place where I can blog or does it go to Mark's blog?
> 
> I'd love to be able to blog my low carb adventure there if that's an option.


Huh. The tab works for me. But it is the blog of the guy who crated & runs the paleotrack site. Only one entry that I can see so you aren't missing anything, really.

If you want to do a blog of your own, WordPress has a great blogging system that is absolutely free. I use it myself, though I rarely have time to blog anymore.

----------


## Acala

> When I did Atkins before, eggs were a *huge* part of my daily diet.  I ate omelets, deviled eggs, soft boiled eggs, or scrambled eggs, etc. on a daily basis.  3 eggs per day was the norm.  I figure I ate well over 2000 eggs in 2 yrs.  Like I mentioned above, when I had my physical after 2 yrs of Atkins, I had, and I quote the doctor, _"the cholesteral level of a 5 yr old_".  Maybe if you eat that many eggs on top of a high carb diet it interacts differently, but doing Atkins again, I have no fear of the egg yolk .


Dietary cholesterol intake is virtually irrelevant to blood lipo-protein levels.  Forget it about it.  Cardiovascular disease is mostly the result of chronic inflammation, which IS influenced by diet, but not dietary cholesterol.

----------


## Acala

> I tried almond milk in my coffee and the combo was awful.  Almond milk is creamier than milk so I thought it would be really good but I was wrong.  I use unwhipped heavy whipping cream - 1 carb per tablespoon (that's what Atkins suggests) and stevia in my coffee.  Now that is yummy!
> 
> Paleotrack sounds interesting.  I'm going to take a look.


I used to use cream in my coffee.  Then I switched to butter.  Yup.  About a tablespoon of unsalted, grass-fed butter.  I use a little electric stirring device to whip it up.  It is awesome!  

And coconut oil is just as good.  The problem with coconut oil is that it separates too quickly into a floating oil layer.  The solution I found is to add a couple drops of soy lecithin as an emulsifier.  Then it whips up just like butter.

I also stopped using any sweetener and I like my coffee better than ever.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Dietary cholesterol intake is virtually irrelevant to blood lipo-protein levels.  Forget it about it.  Cardiovascular disease is mostly the result of chronic inflammation, which IS influenced by diet, but not dietary cholesterol.


I have heard that myself.  I just don't need any science to back it up for me...I was my own case study .

----------


## PatriotOne

> I used to use cream in my coffee.  Then I switched to butter.  Yup.  About a tablespoon of unsalted, grass-fed butter.  I use a little electric stirring device to whip it up.  It is awesome!  
> 
> And coconut oil is just as good.  The problem with coconut oil is that it separates too quickly into a floating oil layer.  The solution I found is to add a couple drops of soy lecithin as an emulsifier.  Then it whips up just like butter.
> 
> I also stopped using any sweetener and I like my coffee better than ever.


Butter in coffee is a thing?  I had never heard of that before.  I googled it and sure enough.  Hard to wrap my head around coffee and butter but gotta admit I am intrigued now .

This guy uses a little battery powered whip for butter coffee also.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fVbDrRGS0U

----------


## Acala

> Butter in coffee is a thing?  I had never heard of that before.  I googled it and sure enough.  Hard to wrap my head around coffee and butter but gotta admit I am intrigued now .
> 
> This guy uses a little battery powered whip for butter coffee also.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fVbDrRGS0U


I got my whip for literally less than $2.  I bought two - one for work and one for home.

Make sure you use grass fed butter so you get the beneficial omega-3 content.  I use kerrygold.

----------


## AcousticFoodie

Anyone here have friends that react with hostility when they find out you are paleo/atkins/LCHF?



From: http://thefatnurse.wordpress.com/

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I wonder if your appendix will start to do something on that diet.


It's got to have some sort of function. I don't accept that it's just a spare part.

----------


## TCE

> When I did Atkins before, eggs were a *huge* part of my daily diet.  I ate omelets, deviled eggs, soft boiled eggs, or scrambled eggs, etc. on a daily basis.  3 eggs per day was the norm.  I figure I ate well over 2000 eggs in 2 yrs.  Like I mentioned above, when I had my physical after 2 yrs of Atkins, I had, and I quote the doctor, _"the cholesteral level of a 5 yr old_".  Maybe if you eat that many eggs on top of a high carb diet it interacts differently, but doing Atkins again, I have no fear of the egg yolk .


Ironically, I have just confirmed that I have a serious sensitivity to eggs, so those are not going to be an option for me unfortunately. Anyone have good ideas for breakfast? I have mostly been going with the smoothie, besides other variations, such as basing it on protein powder and fiber, what else can I eat?






> Awesome!  With the added fruit, etc., you have gone low carb light but since you only had 10 lbs to lose that's awesome.  Have you tried Almond milk yet?  I love it!  The *unsweetened* Almond milk is REALLY low carb and delicious!  *1 carb per cup of milk*.
> 
> 
> Silk Pure Almond® Unsweetened Almondmilk
> 
> http://www.silkpurealmond.com/products/#
> 
> p.s. - you may start going thorugh carb withdrawals soon.  Eating a piece of bread, etc., may occupy your thoughts for the most part of the day.  Don't go hungry.  If you get hungry (as opposed to just cravings)  eat a big ole juicy steak or what ever piece of meat your heart desires.  You can eat all the unprocessed meat you want.  Hang in there.  I promise it will pass in a week or two and they will not be an issue.


Essentially, yes. In counting my carbs, I am consistently under 40g with the fruit being the major carb number and I have already lost some weight. As a bonus, all of the food I've been eating is organic. For whatever reason, coconut milk is the only milk I can consume in any great quantity. Almond, Soy, Rice, Hemp, I've had problems with. My coconut milk is 1 carb gram per serving as well: http://www.vitacost.com/thai-kitchen...productReviews

P.S. Already experiencing some of that with a bit of lightheaded-ness and some weakness, but still not eating any of the bad stuff.

----------


## TCE

> It's got to have some sort of function. I don't accept that it's just a spare part.


This is what I found on uses of the appendix. It is used for promoting good gut flora bacteria: http://www.naturalnews.com/027500_ap...ealth_NIH.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/022914.html

----------


## PatriotOne

[QUOTE=TCE;4411024]


> Ironically, I have just confirmed that I have a serious sensitivity to eggs, so those are not going to be an option for me unfortunately. Anyone have good ideas for breakfast? I have mostly been going with the smoothie, besides other variations, such as basing it on protein powder and fiber, what else can I eat?


Have you checked out Mark's Daily Apple for suggestions yet?  They have ton's of low carb recipes and suggestions for wheat based replacement foods.  

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/prima...#axzz1uLI6KXO3

I have yet to get creative on the low carb and just eat meat and vegs and am perfectly fine with that for now.  My appetite is so low that I just don't care enough to get creative at this time.  I just had a steak for breakfast this morn and a piece of salmon for lunch....lol.  Tonight I will have vegs or a big salad.




> P.S. Already experiencing some of that with a bit of lightheaded-ness and some weakness, but still not eating any of the bad stuff.


Your chemistry is adjusting in a good way.  Think of it similar to nicotine withrawals except you are getting rid of a different poison. Just make sure you are eating enough.  Do not deprive yourself of the good stuff and eat till full!  Hang in there....I'm rooting for ya   Congrats on your weight loss!  I'm looking forward to hearing how you feel after a couple weeks.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I got my whip for literally less than $2.  I bought two - one for work and one for home.
> 
> Make sure you use grass fed butter so you get the beneficial omega-3 content.  I use kerrygold.


Coffee and butter are tops on my list of things I love to ingest.  I'll need a whip and find a place that sells grass fed butter.  I'll report back when I get a chance to try it.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Ironically, I have just confirmed that I have a serious sensitivity to eggs, so those are not going to be an option for me unfortunately. Anyone have good ideas for breakfast? I have mostly been going with the smoothie, besides other variations, such as basing it on protein powder and fiber, what else can I eat?


Is it the whites or albumen you have problems with (or both)?  It's possible to cook just the whites and mix in a protein (like grilled chicken) and other goodies for flavor. (I've never had this problem, so I hope this is of some use to you...just coming up with stuff off the top of my head  )

----------


## PatriotOne

> Anyone here have friends that react with hostility when they find out you are paleo/atkins/LCHF?


  Most people I have talked to about it are more interested in the details of the program.  I've never had anyone get mad before.  Though some look at me skeptically.  Hard to break the low fat programming...nevermind that obesity has skyrocketed and diabetes is practically epidemic and now effecting our children since "low-fat" has become the standard american diet recommendations.

----------


## Kluge

I'm posting this link again: http://paleotrack.com/journal for sheer awesomeness.

I used it today and it will definitely help with knowing where I need to supplement, where I don't. I can add any food I want that isn't in there--just brilliant. I filled in all my day's info, and was low on protein, so had tuna instead of hot & sour soup. Neat!

(And Danke, if you're reading this--shut yer yap!)

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Ironically, I have just confirmed that I have a serious sensitivity to eggs, so those are not going to be an option for me unfortunately. Anyone have good ideas for breakfast? I have mostly been going with the smoothie, besides other variations, such as basing it on protein powder and fiber, what else can I eat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, yes. In counting my carbs, I am consistently under 40g with the fruit being the major carb number and I have already lost some weight. As a bonus, all of the food I've been eating is organic. For whatever reason, coconut milk is the only milk I can consume in any great quantity. Almond, Soy, Rice, Hemp, I've had problems with. My coconut milk is 1 carb gram per serving as well: http://www.vitacost.com/thai-kitchen...productReviews
> 
> P.S. Already experiencing some of that with a bit of lightheaded-ness and some weakness, but still not eating any of the bad stuff.


Can you eat yogurt? I usually have greek yogurt with a little fruit for breakfast. It will increase your carbs some, but it's a good protein source. Or how about cottage cheese? That's also high protein but with low carbs. 

I'm wondering if maybe you're keeping your carbs too low. Especially since you're feeling light-headed. You need to be careful of ketosis if you're going so low for a good length of time, there is some controversy about how much ketosis is good and how much is dangerous. As long as you stay under 100 grams of carbs per day you will be in the "sweet spot" for weight loss. My average is about 85 grams per day. And I only intend to do that for a few months before bringing it up into the maintenance zone.

----------


## Kluge

I've been under 15 carbs/day for over a week, and I thought I was going to die yesterday. I gorged on a $#@!ing grapefruit...my system is so screwed up right now.

----------


## Acala

> Coffee and butter are tops on my list of things I love to ingest.  I'll need a whip and find a place that sells grass fed butter.  I'll report back when I get a chance to try it.


Trader Joes and Sunflower market both have Kerrygold.  Don't know what is around you.

----------


## Acala

> I've been under 15 carbs/day for over a week, and I thought I was going to die yesterday. I gorged on a $#@!ing grapefruit...my system is so screwed up right now.


Make sure you are eating plenty of healthy fat.  People sometimes have a habit of avoiding fat and then when they cut down the carbs they suddenly run out of fuel.  If you are hungry, EAT FAT!  Go get yourself a big spoonful of coconut oil, dip it in shredded coconut and have at it.  Cook yourself a 1/2 pound patty of grass-fed ground beef in a pan of butter and chopped veggies and stuff yourself.  Have a big omlette cooked in butter.  Have a big salad with lots of different veggies and meat in it, and SMOTHER it with olive oil.

There is no reason for you to be hungry.  EAT HEALTHY FAT!!!!!!

----------


## Kluge

> Make sure you are eating plenty of healthy fat.  People sometimes have a habit of avoiding fat and then when they cut down the carbs they suddenly run out of fuel.  If you are hungry, EAT FAT!  Go get yourself a big spoonful of coconut oil, dip it in shredded coconut and have at it.  Cook yourself a 1/2 pound patty of grass-fed ground beef in a pan of butter and chopped veggies and stuff yourself.  Have a big omlette cooked in butter.  Have a big salad with lots of different veggies and meat in it, and SMOTHER it with olive oil.
> 
> There is no reason for you to be hungry.  EAT HEALTHY FAT!!!!!!


No worries, but thank you. Just the carbohydrate withdrawal, felt lightheaded, woozy. Just rather sickly in general. I had to do something to snap out of it because we had 3 kids coming over (in addition to our one) that we're watching while their dad is in surgery. I ended up "cheating" that day, because I was really hungry and couldn't leave the kids unattended to go eat properly--just ended up eating too much fruit, which isn't too terrible. Spent yesterday feeling the after-effects of the carb load, but kept really strict (only 12g carbs) and feel really good today. I am working on getting more fat into the diet, and got some coconut oil yesterday--just haven't figured out how I'll use it yet.

Oh--just had a deviled egg that seemed to be the best thing I've ever eaten. Simple recipe:

1 hardboiled egg
capers
mayo
1 slice dill pickle
salt/pepper

paprika

Just smash up the yolk with all the ingredients, sprinkle w/paprika.

Another thing I have to do when we move is start making my own mayo again, those turds add sugar to commercial mayo. I'm going to try to see if I can do it here, but it'll be weird.

----------


## Acala

> No worries, but thank you. Just the carbohydrate withdrawal, felt lightheaded, woozy. Just rather sickly in general. I had to do something to snap out of it because we had 3 kids coming over (in addition to our one) that we're watching while their dad is in surgery. I ended up "cheating" that day, because I was really hungry and couldn't leave the kids unattended to go eat properly--just ended up eating too much fruit, which isn't too terrible. Spent yesterday feeling the after-effects of the carb load, but kept really strict (only 12g carbs) and feel really good today. I am working on getting more fat into the diet, and got some coconut oil yesterday--just haven't figured out how I'll use it yet.
> 
> Oh--just had a deviled egg that seemed to be the best thing I've ever eaten. Simple recipe:
> 
> 1 hardboiled egg
> capers
> mayo
> 1 slice dill pickle
> salt/pepper
> ...


Yum!  I'm a big fan of deviled eggs.  And, yes, commercial mayo is no good.  Not only added sugar, but nearly always made with oils you want to avoid.  I would be interested in how you make your own.

----------


## Kluge

> Yum!  I'm a big fan of deviled eggs.  And, yes, commercial mayo is no good.  Not only added sugar, but nearly always made with oils you want to avoid.  I would be interested in how you make your own.


Separate an egg yolk from the white (save white for an omelet or whatever), if you have a stick blender, blend on low setting (or whisk briskly), now start to add oil 1 drop at a time. Adding it faster may cause the emulsion to break. (It's easier if you use several egg yolks at first.) I've always used extra virgin olive oil, but you can experiment with whatever liquid oil you want. (Approximately 1 cup of oil to each yolk--so it takes patience, you can add a little faster after you've added about a third of the oil.) I use a squeeze bottle. Near the middle-end of the whisking, you'll want to add a couple of drops of lemon juice or vinegar of your choice.

I only do one egg yolk at a time because it doesn't last nearly as long as commercial mayo. Probably about a week in the refrigerator. You can have fun with it and add all kinds of stuff--herbs, spices, garlic, etc. to it. It is so amazingly better than commercial.

If you use a whisk, your arm should be hurtin' by the end--if not, you aren't whisking hard enough.

----------


## Acala

> Separate an egg yolk from the white (save white for an omelet or whatever), if you have a stick blender, blend on low setting (or whisk briskly), now start to add oil 1 drop at a time. Adding it faster may cause the emulsion to break. (It's easier if you use several egg yolks at first.) I've always used extra virgin olive oil, but you can experiment with whatever liquid oil you want. (Approximately 1 cup of oil to each yolk--so it takes patience, you can add a little faster after you've added about a third of the oil.) I use a squeeze bottle. Near the middle-end of the whisking, you'll want to add a couple of drops of lemon juice or vinegar of your choice.
> 
> I only do one egg yolk at a time because it doesn't last nearly as long as commercial mayo. Probably about a week in the refrigerator. You can have fun with it and add all kinds of stuff--herbs, spices, garlic, etc. to it. It is so amazingly better than commercial.
> 
> If you use a whisk, your arm should be hurtin' by the end--if not, you aren't whisking hard enough.


Thanks!  I will try it.  I have always liked my tuna with mayo and now that commercial mayo is off the plan I have been deprived.

----------


## Kluge

> Thanks!  I will try it.  I have always liked my tuna with mayo and now that commercial mayo is off the plan I have been deprived.


Glad I could help you out for a change!

I like it with spices like cayenne or paprika usually, but for Asian dishes, very finely chopped, dried ginger or wasabi is amazing. With Italian stuff, garlic and fresh basil are really tasty. Once I even cooked bacon extra-crispy, then ground it up with a mortar/pestle and added bacon powder/bits. Now that was tasty. White pepper is good in it too.

----------


## Todd

> I believe in primal as scientifically valid and the healthiest way to live.  Unfortunately, I just wasn't raised to appreciate vegetables at all, and pastas & grains are among my very favorite things to eat.  There's just no way I'd be able to stick to it religiously.


Same here....I had a hard time liking veggies.  Then I married a very health conscious woman.  

If you hate Veggies, now try juicing bunches of them together in very interesting tasting coctails.  Very healthy, but an aquired taste.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Oh--just had a deviled egg that seemed to be the best thing I've ever eaten. Simple recipe:
> 
> 1 hardboiled egg
> capers
> mayo
> 1 slice dill pickle
> salt/pepper
> 
> paprika
> ...


Hmmmmm....capers?  Sounds delicous!

My recipe

Mash yolks with:

Mayo, dried mustard, apple cider vinegar, salt, pepper, garlic powder, and the kicker is smoked salmon (when I can find smoked salmon w/o added sugar to the process).  When I want them to be pretty for parties, I put a piece of smoked salmon on the top of the egg as opposed to mashed in.

Now I want some deviled eggs.  Off to the kitchen!

----------


## Acala

> Same here....I had a hard time liking veggies.  Then I married a very health conscious woman.  
> 
> If you hate Veggies, now try juicing bunches of them together in very interesting tasting coctails.  Very healthy, but an aquired taste.


I was never much interested in vegetables or salad.  But after a few months of going primal and eating really diverse salads on a daily basis, now I LOVE my salads!  I delight in the juicy, crunchy, colorful mess.  It's like my body made the connection between the nutrition and the taste.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Same here....I had a hard time liking veggies.  Then I married a very health conscious woman.  
> 
> If you hate Veggies, now try juicing bunches of them together in very interesting tasting coctails.  Very healthy, but an aquired taste.


It's my understanding that juicing them removes most of the fiber content.  Is that right?

----------


## TCE

> It's my understanding that juicing them removes most of the fiber content.  Is that right?


Virtually all of the fiber content is removed when you juice, yes.

----------


## PatriotOne

So how's all our low carb dieters doing this week?  Thought I would post Friday's success story from Mark's Daily Apple.  It was a good one.  See link for pictures.


*Rebel Musician Goes Primal After Years of Hard Living* 

Dear Mark,

Here follows a detailed timeline of how I came across MDA and your book The Primal Blueprint along with more details about my health history:

I was born in Houston, Texas and adopted by a family of Czech origin. I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia as a kid. I dont so much buy into that diagnosis. I think I was just bored and constrained within the typical public school system. However, unbeknownst to me at the time, the breads, kolaches, pastries and potatoes that were so prevalent in my mothers native food were spiking my blood pressure to the moon.

I was always involved in gymnastics, competitive swimming, baseball and basketball as a child, so I was never really overweight. Since I was adopted, my mother, who is very wise, took the time to cook differently for me and I ate a lot of seafood and vegetables growing up.

When I got to college I started eating out a lot and since I was physically active and involved in Jeet Kun Do and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu I was always in relatively good shape. However, a few pounds a year adds up after twenty years, and at the age of forty I found myself creeping up on the scale to 240 pounds. I am 62 so I was able to hide it fairly well with a big frame, but I felt sluggish. I was living a musician lifestyle and waking up every day at 11 AM.

I have a good friend who is authentic and real. I went to see him in Vegas, and the minute I walked in his door he told me I didnt look good with three chins and I would never attract a decent woman fat. He has a way with words and I decided to take control of my life and my fitness. My friend and his wife had lost forty pounds a piece utilizing the Atkins diet. I understand enough about psychology to realize that I could simply model their behavior and achieve similar results.

I did and I lost a lot of weight and I felt a lot better. However, I found the shakes and the bars that had the fake sugar in them to taste very repulsive. I believe how you do anything is how you do everything. I have dedicated my life to music and consider it a fine art. I try to make all my relationships a masterpiece and consider friendship a fine art. I was happy with the results of the Atkins approach, but found many of the meals and supplementation boring, and far from fine art when it comes to cuisine.

I have a lot of friends who are foodies and gourmet chefs and I knew there had to be a better way. One night I Googled no carb recipes and MDA popped up in my search. I was hooked from the front page and once I started taking a look at the recipes my mouth began to water. Real food in its natural state, no strange ingredients, nothing in a box or can  I was hooked.

I was using Evernote at the time and I copied recipe after recipe from your site. I fell in love with eggs all over again. I had such misinformation about eggs. You mentioned on your site how every grandmother who lived to a ripe old age had that can of bacon fat on top of her stove that she cooked everything in. Mark, that was my grandmother Sophie Slansky. I loved all her food as a kid and she grew up on farm.

Your site elegantly and with fortitude debunked every foolish myth there was about food. Fat, including animal fat, is essential to our well-being, and you have the moxie and the courage to step out on the edge and challenge all of these myths.

The number one thing I learned from MDA and that I encourage everyone who wants to get lean and mean with a great low body-fat percentage is to understand this: 90% of all body composition begins with what you put in your mouth. You could join all the gyms in the world, buy every ab machine, personal trainer and run thirty miles a day and never have the body composition of someone who adheres to the aforementioned principle.

Since I started the Primal approach I have woken up every day for the last two years at 5:30 in the morning. I crave my fennel and dill omelet I learned from you. I crave poached eggs, I look forward to breakfast. I honestly in the deepest depths of my soul can not imagine how anyone could convince me that they honestly crave a bowl of oatmeal or Captain Crunch.

The differences I have seen are incredible. All my friends tell me I look fifteen years younger. Its completely revived my music career as a performer. There arent that many fat rock stars. I can see my abs for the first time since I was fourteen years young. I cant believe how much I enjoy what I eat. A typical day for me might be a vegetable omelet for breakfast, grilled chicken wings with scrumptious crispy skin for lunch along with a side of celery and real blue cheese, then at dinner a prime dry aged rib-eye with cauliflower mashed potatoes and grilled asparagus, a glass or three of Cabernet, and a piece of 85% cocoa chocolate.

I feel completely satiated and content after every meal.

Here is a video I made featuring me preparing my Primal Sushi Rolls, which are really not sushi at all. They are made with beef and asparagus. They are always a huge hit at parties!

Your post about drinking ten to twelve big glasses of water a day being ridiculous was spot on as well. I was drinking way too much water before I found your site.

This is the greatest thing that drew a rebel musician like myself to your site. Just about everything on MDA is counterintuitive. I found that to be where the truth lies these days you have to seek it out. That food pyramid they stuffed down our throats all those years is a complete joke.

I also want to note that Adelulf  my beloved, non neutered, all black male German Shepherd  eats Primal as well. Every morning I walk out into the yard and give him two fresh eggs in the shell. I set them down in the yard and its like Easter. Even as a puppy he knew what to do. He carefully picks up the egg, puts it in his mouth, takes it where he wants, pokes a hole in the shell with his canines and slurps up every last drop of both eggs. He eats raw chicken with the bones, turkey necks, liver, kidneys, and raw beef. His teeth are completely white, and his coat incredibly shiny. If I had a dollar for every so called animal lover, dog expert and veterinarian who told me my dog is going to die from salmonella poisoning from the raw eggs and choke on the raw bones I would be retired on a beach in Hawaii right now drinking margaritas. Heres a picture of me and my dog where I landed at about twelve to thirteen percent body fat.

Thanks Mark. Pardon the long email, but I have a lot of deep appreciation for what you are doing.

All the best and Grok on, Mark.

Eric


Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/rebel...#ixzz1vTcmw0dk

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> So how's all our low carb dieters doing this week?  Thought I would post Friday's success story from Mark's Daily Apple.  It was a good one.  See link for pictures.
> 
> Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/rebel...#ixzz1vTcmw0dk


Well here's my success story...

After four weeks of Primal living I have lost 10 pounds! Almost an inch off my waist, two inches off my hips and two inches off my lower abdomen (or kangaroo pouch as I usually refer to that area).

I feel a lot more energized when I wake up in the morning and have been getting to work 30 minutes earlier than usual most days. My energy level stays amazingly steady throughout the day. And I find it much easier to get to sleep before midnight. I also no longer wake up with a headache almost every single morning. 

My digestion issues (IBS) are gone. GONE! You just can't appreciate a properly functioning digestive system until you've lived without one for a decade or more.

I'm feeling happier and more positive even when things get stressful at work. It just seems easier to take things in stride.

My skin is now clearer than it's been in years and my hair feels thicker and stronger.

Going primal has been like a miracle. I can't recommend it highly enough. It is without question the best thing I've ever done for myself. Ever. And I will never go back to eating the SAD.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> No worries, but thank you. Just the carbohydrate withdrawal, felt lightheaded, woozy. Just rather sickly in general. I had to do something to snap out of it because we had 3 kids coming over (in addition to our one) that we're watching while their dad is in surgery. I ended up "cheating" that day, because I was really hungry and couldn't leave the kids unattended to go eat properly--just ended up eating too much fruit, which isn't too terrible. Spent yesterday feeling the after-effects of the carb load, but kept really strict (only 12g carbs) and feel really good today. I am working on getting more fat into the diet, and got some coconut oil yesterday--just haven't figured out how I'll use it yet.
> 
> Oh--just had a deviled egg that seemed to be the best thing I've ever eaten. Simple recipe:
> 
> 1 hardboiled egg
> capers
> mayo
> 1 slice dill pickle
> salt/pepper
> ...


1 cheat day/week is perfectly fine.  Ideally keep it to 1 cheat meal, though.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Well here's my success story...
> 
> After four weeks of Primal living I have lost 10 pounds! Almost an inch off my waist, two inches off my hips and two inches off my lower abdomen (or kangaroo pouch as I usually refer to that area).
> 
> I feel a lot more energized when I wake up in the morning and have been getting to work 30 minutes earlier than usual most days. My energy level stays amazingly steady throughout the day. And I find it much easier to get to sleep before midnight. I also no longer wake up with a headache almost every single morning. 
> 
> My digestion issues (IBS) are gone. GONE! You just can't appreciate a properly functioning digestive system until you've lived without one for a decade or more.
> 
> I'm feeling happier and more positive even when things get stressful at work. It just seems easier to take things in stride.
> ...


Congrats!

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Congrats!


Thanks! 

It was a whole lot easier than I thought it might be. And after a few weeks, the Intermittent Fasting was easy too. 

I still put some sugar in my morning coffee but I'm using less and less because it starts tasting too sweet every few days. It's amazing - the less sugar you take in, the less you want. At this point my veggies and fruits are about all the sweet I need.

----------


## specsaregood

> Well here's my success story...


So I'm not going paleo; but i did cut out ALL grains from my diet --excluding beer -- about 2.5 weeks ago.  (kinda a big deal when you have to share all your meals with an italian woman).

I've lost 11 pounds so far with absolutely no other changes in behavior/diet and I feel just fine.

----------


## osan

> Thanks! 
> 
> It was a whole lot easier than I thought it might be. And after a few weeks, the Intermittent Fasting was easy too. 
> 
> I still put some sugar in my morning coffee but I'm using less and less because it starts tasting too sweet every few days. It's amazing - the less sugar you take in, the less you want. At this point my veggies and fruits are about all the sweet I need.


Good for you.

Proper diet is very important.  In the past few months since the weather improved, I have been up and down the mountain several times a day, putting up fencing, digging, what have you.  I eat ONE meal a day - sometimes less.  The less I eat, the less I feel like eating and the better I feel for it.

I was 145 pounds my entire adult life until I hit 50 and stopped working because nobody wants a 50+ engineer anymore.  I went to 180#.  My mom said I finally looked like a human being instead of a scare crow, but to me I looked like a hog and felt like $#@!.  But when the good weather is out and I'm working the body, despite the aches and pains, I feel 100% better than when I go sedentary.

I have found that the less you work, the more you eat.  The more you eat the more you WANT to eat.  The more you eat, the fatter you get and the lousier you feel.  I'm in pretty good shape at 54 and intend on staying that way.  I let it slip once and will not let it happen again.  I was surprised by the gain - I had a terrible time keeping weight ON - I'd eat 5 to 7 LARGE meals/day and could barely keep it at 145.  I guess it happens to the best of us if we last long enough.

----------


## Acala

> Well here's my success story...
> 
> After four weeks of Primal living I have lost 10 pounds! Almost an inch off my waist, two inches off my hips and two inches off my lower abdomen (or kangaroo pouch as I usually refer to that area).
> 
> I feel a lot more energized when I wake up in the morning and have been getting to work 30 minutes earlier than usual most days. My energy level stays amazingly steady throughout the day. And I find it much easier to get to sleep before midnight. I also no longer wake up with a headache almost every single morning. 
> 
> My digestion issues (IBS) are gone. GONE! You just can't appreciate a properly functioning digestive system until you've lived without one for a decade or more.
> 
> I'm feeling happier and more positive even when things get stressful at work. It just seems easier to take things in stride.
> ...


Congratulations!

----------


## Romulus

I want to get started on this... its so hard to cut out grains and bread though.

----------


## Acala

> I want to get started on this... its so hard to cut out grains and bread though.


It is easier if you just go cold turkey and break the cycle of carbohydrate consumption>insulin spike>low blood sugar>appetite spike>carbohydrate consumption.  

But you DO have to condition yourself psychologically that you are finished with grain for good.  Otherwise you will nibble and then backslide.  Done that.

----------


## Kluge

> I want to get started on this... its so hard to cut out grains and bread though.


All I had to do was imaging that I'd have to get my feet lopped off someday because my reaction to carbs was so effed. Piece of bread in exchange for feet? No thanks--esp. when we're planning on moving to 30 wooded acres. Hard to hike on a coupla peg legs.

My MIL noticed the weight loss the other day, and she said she's bulking up because it's part of her "SHTF" storage. Laughs were had, and I said nothing, but the reality is that the better shape you're in, the better off you'll be should the SHTF. You'll know your body, what it needs, and have the strength to get it.

----------


## Son of Detroit

You can take my pasta from my cold, dead hands.



Hnnnnnggggggg.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> It is easier if you just go cold turkey and break the cycle of carbohydrate consumption>insulin spike>low blood sugar>appetite spike>carbohydrate consumption.  
> 
> But you DO have to condition yourself psychologically that you are finished with grain for good.  Otherwise you will nibble and then backslide.  Done that.


^This. You have to break the cycle to get the benefits. You just do.

After I'd been grain-free for about a week I made the mistake of eating corn-on-the-cob. I was regretting it within a few hours, not because of "backsliding" but because it made me feel absolutely terrible. It took about a day and a half to feel right again. I haven't touched grain, including corn, since.

Romulus - you might consider doing a one-week challenge. Do a solid week of primal eating - no cheating - then eat some bread or cereal when the week is over. If you're anything like at least 1/3 of the population, you'll soon regret that grain. And if that is the case, it will be easy to leave it behind and never feel tempted by it again.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> You can take my pasta from my cold, dead hands.
> 
> 
> 
> Hnnnnnggggggg.


You can have your pasta. Gross.

I might fight you for the meatballs though, if they're all meat and no filler.

----------


## Kluge

> You can take my pasta from my cold, dead hands.
> 
> 
> 
> Hnnnnnggggggg.


If you're going to try to tempt with pasta, at least go for the really good stuff.



Even that isn't worth it.

----------


## Acala

> You can take my pasta from my cold, dead hands.
> 
> 
> 
> Hnnnnnggggggg.


What you are really savoring in that picture is the sauce and the meat, not the pasta itself.  Try some plain pasta.  No sauce, no butter, nothing.  And then tell my how yummy it is.  Pasta is just a delivery vehicle for the tasty stuff, and a really unhealthy one.  So keep the good stuff and deliver it on something not so unhealthy.  Or eat the meat and sauce by itself.  That way you can eat MORE of it!

----------


## Acala

> but the reality is that the better shape you're in, the better off you'll be should the SHTF. You'll know your body, what it needs, and have the strength to get it.


Yes.  But when I went primal I suddenly realized that most of my storage AND my plan for extracting food from the local environment was based on carbs.  Big buckets of wheat, beans, and rice.  So I had to get busy making pemmican, buying canned salmon and sardines, and dehydrating vegetables.

----------


## Son of Detroit

> You can have your pasta. Gross.
> 
> I might fight you for the meatballs though, if they're all meat and no filler.





> If you're going to try to tempt with pasta, at least go for the really good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Even that isn't worth it.





> What you are really savoring in that picture is the sauce and the meat, not the pasta itself.  Try some plain pasta.  No sauce, no butter, nothing.  And then tell my how yummy it is.  Pasta is just a delivery vehicle for the tasty stuff, and a really unhealthy one.  So keep the good stuff and deliver it on something not so unhealthy.  Or eat the meat and sauce by itself.  That way you can eat MORE of it!


You guys must not be Italians!  

My Grandmother would slap me if I insinuated something as sacrilegious as not eating pasta.  There's nothing more comforting than a big plate of spaghetti and meatballs with a homemade marinara sauce.

----------


## Kluge

> Yes.  But when I went primal I suddenly realized that most of my storage AND my plan for extracting food from the local environment was based on carbs.  Big buckets of wheat, beans, and rice.  So I had to get busy making pemmican, buying canned salmon and sardines, and dehydrating vegetables.


I've been thinking about that. Canned fish, lots of dehydrated vegetables, a couple of good rifles, traps, chickens and a large greenhouse.




> You guys must not be Italians!  
> 
> My Grandmother would slap me if I insinuated something as sacrilegious as not eating pasta.  There's nothing more comforting than a big plate of spaghetti and meatballs with a homemade marinara sauce.


My ex was Sicilian, I learned everything I know about Italian food from his mom. Risotto, homemade ravioli, those fancy fig cookies, almond cookies, the best sauce you could possibly imagine, etc. etc. It's not worth it to me if it makes me unhealthy.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## Kluge

> did they practice the feast of 7 fishes?


They did have lots of seafood, but did not actually do the feast of 7 fishes. The big thing was homemade ravioli and sauce made with squid, lobster risotto, etc.. They talked about it because she had relatives who did that, and she did too when she was a kid. But she was a very practical person when it came to those things. She liked to try new fancy dishes, because we were near the coast. She mixed traditional with nouveau. I always had to kill the live seafood....

----------


## BamaAla

Got another DEXA scan yesterday and the results are still coming in! 

Went Primal at the end of September 2011 weighing 230 and coming in at 40% body fat. Yesterday I weighed 173 pounds and measured in 24% body fat! I can't recommend Primal enough!

----------


## Kluge

> Got another DEXA scan yesterday and the results are still coming in! 
> 
> Went Primal at the end of September 2011 weighing 230 and coming in at 40% body fat. Yesterday I weighed 173 pounds and measured in 24% body fat! I can't recommend Primal enough!


That's one hell of a transformation! Did you make any other changes than diet?

----------


## BamaAla

> That's one hell of a transformation! Did you make any other changes than diet?


Primal eating and Primal Blueprint Fitness. It simply works!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> All I had to do was imaging that I'd have to get my feet lopped off someday because my reaction to carbs was so effed. Piece of bread in exchange for feet? No thanks--esp. when we're planning on moving to 30 wooded acres. Hard to hike on a coupla peg legs.
> 
> My MIL noticed the weight loss the other day, and she said she's bulking up because it's part of her "SHTF" storage. Laughs were had, and I said nothing, but the reality is that the better shape you're in, the better off you'll be should the SHTF. You'll know your body, what it needs, and have the strength to get it.


Hey, is your MIL also a MILF?  If so, I'd like to meet her sometime.

----------


## BuddyRey

I still believe in eating healthfully, but I'm learning now that it isn't for everybody.  The quack at the Minute Clinic told me my blood pressure is low, so I'm having my Arby's roast beef sammidges with extra salt from now on.

----------


## Acala

> Got another DEXA scan yesterday and the results are still coming in! 
> 
> Went Primal at the end of September 2011 weighing 230 and coming in at 40% body fat. Yesterday I weighed 173 pounds and measured in 24% body fat! I can't recommend Primal enough!


Excellent!

----------


## Elwar

I hunt and gather everything I eat.

Pisses people off at McDonalds but it is a battle of the fittest!

----------


## mczerone

> You guys must not be Italians!  
> 
> My Grandmother would slap me if I insinuated something as sacrilegious as not eating pasta.  There's nothing more comforting than a big plate of spaghetti and meatballs with a homemade marinara sauce.


At least substitute spaghetti squash. It's sweet and nutritious, and you only need a little to go with your meat sauce to make it "feel" like spaghetti.

----------


## Romulus

aren't some grains good though?? maybe like 1/4 of your diet at least?

I grew up on cereal and milk.... what the hell am I supposed to eat for breakfast?!! *panics*

----------


## Acala

> aren't some grains good though?? maybe like 1/4 of your diet at least?
> 
> I grew up on cereal and milk.... what the hell am I supposed to eat for breakfast?!! *panics*


Not really.  The only grain I eat, and then only very rarely when I go out for sushi, is white rice.

For breakfast, how about a couple free-range eggs scrambled in butter (or coconut oil if you prefer) with onions, garlic, peppers, spinach, and what other veggies are around, accompanied by a piece of wild smoked salmon or a couple slices of crisp bacon, and half a grapefruit?  That's what I usually have.  I know it is horrible, but I try to put up with it without whimpering and complaining.

----------


## specsaregood

> Not really.  The only grain I eat, and then only very rarely when I go out for sushi, is white rice.
> 
> For breakfast, how about a couple free-range eggs scrambled in butter (or coconut oil if you prefer) with onions, garlic, peppers, spinach, and what other veggies are around, accompanied by a piece of wild smoked salmon or a couple slices of crisp bacon, and half a grapefruit?  That's what I usually have.  I know it is horrible, but I try to put up with it without whimpering and complaining.


So not even a little breading on chicken, porkchops etc?

also, paleo man was farming fowl for eggs for breakfast?  --not busting balls, just trying to understand.

----------


## Kluge

> So not even a little breading on chicken, porkchops etc?
> 
> also, paleo man was farming fowl for eggs for breakfast?  --not busting balls, just trying to understand.


I think most paleos who have a taste for fried chicken, porkchops, etc. use almond flour.

Can't imagine that paleo man would farm chickens, but they'd probably steal the eggs out of a nest.

I'm sure Acala is far more well-read on it than I am at this point though.

----------


## specsaregood

> Can't imagine that paleo man would farm chickens, but they'd probably steal the eggs out of a nest.


Which would probably be more of an occasional treat rather than a breakfast staple, yes?

gotcha on the almond flour, I'm gonna have to try that.

----------


## Romulus

I don't have time to scramble eggs every morning... I'm going to cut out a lot of grain and become more vegetarian I think.

plus, porkchops, meat, chicken, all that factory farm food is loaded with toxins and crap...

Its tough to eat clean.

I watched a movie on Vegans and this girl is showing off her margarine in her fridge.... as if that's any good! People can be smart and stupid at the same time...

----------


## Kluge

> Which would probably be more of an occasional treat rather than a breakfast staple, yes?
> 
> gotcha on the almond flour, I'm gonna have to try that.


For sure it'd be a rare treat--and the eggs would probably have been a lot smaller, unless they're in Africa/Australia. Personally, I eat them regularly, because I'm not actually a paleolithic human being, and they fit in my little refrigerator.

----------


## Acala

> So not even a little breading on chicken, porkchops etc?
> 
> also, paleo man was farming fowl for eggs for breakfast?  --not busting balls, just trying to understand.


I avoid breading of any kind unless I am really hard pressed.  And it isn't just the grain.  Most things that are breaded are going to also be fried in oils that you don't want to be eating.    

Yes, paleo man probably didn't have access to enough eggs to have them for breakfast every morning.  But they probably were available in substantial quantity in certain seasons.  Lots of wild birds lay good-sized clutches of eggs.  I know where a dozen quail eggs are at this very moment and I could find more if I went looking.  But that would be strictly seasonal here.  In more tropical climates eggs might be more available year round.  I don't know.  

Paleo man probably ate lots of meat from big game, small game, fish, insects, eggs, lots of vegetables, mushrooms, and a little bit of seeds, nuts, and fruit.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Got another DEXA scan yesterday and the results are still coming in! 
> 
> Went Primal at the end of September 2011 weighing 230 and coming in at 40% body fat. Yesterday I weighed 173 pounds and measured in 24% body fat! I can't recommend Primal enough!



Outstanding! Good for you!

----------


## Seraphim

This..sounds...delicious!!!

lol .

To Romulus: EGGS.

Acala is right...honestly...learn to eat steak and eggs for breakfast lol. You'll feel great and your body fat % will drop and you'll pack on muscle everytime you look at anything heavy.




> Not really.  The only grain I eat, and then only very rarely when I go out for sushi, is white rice.
> 
> For breakfast, how about a couple free-range eggs scrambled in butter (or coconut oil if you prefer) with onions, garlic, peppers, spinach, and what other veggies are around, accompanied by a piece of wild smoked salmon or a couple slices of crisp bacon, and half a grapefruit?  That's what I usually have.  I know it is horrible, but I try to put up with it without whimpering and complaining.

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> I don't have time to scramble eggs every morning... I'm going to cut out a lot of grain and become more vegetarian I think.
> 
> plus, porkchops, meat, chicken, all that factory farm food is loaded with toxins and crap...
> 
> Its tough to eat clean.
> 
> I watched a movie on Vegans and this girl is showing off her margarine in her fridge.... as if that's any good! People can be smart and stupid at the same time...


You can make a bunch of hard boiled eggs on the weekend, or whenever you have time. Then you'll have them handy throughout the week for breakfasts, snacks, to crumble on a salad, or to use in recipes. 

And yes, it does take a little effort to eat good stuff, but it's not as hard as you might think. Especially not in the summer and fall. Check out www.localharvest.org to find farmer's markets, co-ops, and other sources of quality meat, dairy and produce near you.

----------


## Seraphim

Primal all the way.

For about 2 months, all I've been eating (other than the odd splurge)...is meat, eggs, veggies, fruits, nuts, cheese....

I'm down in body fat, up in muscle, up in total body weight (I used to be a huge lifter, and Ive recently started lifting again so my body is exploding rather rapidly from the muscle memory...)...and most importantly...

I FEEL MUCH BETTER.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Primal all the way.
> 
> For about 2 months, all I've been eating (other than the odd splurge)...is meat, eggs, veggies, fruits, nuts, cheese....
> 
> I'm down in body fat, up in muscle, up in total body weight (I used to be a huge lifter, and Ive recently started lifting again so my body is exploding rather rapidly from the muscle memory...)...and most importantly...
> 
> I FEEL MUCH BETTER.


If you're getting back into serious weight lifting, up your protein to two protein shakes/day, 1 between each meal.  (I'm a serious weightlifter too)

----------


## Seraphim

I used to do that...now if I'm hungry between meals I'll eat cashews or some other protein like that.

I have not had a protein shake/drink in 4-5 years.




> If you're getting back into serious weight lifting, up your protein to two protein shakes/day, 1 between each meal.  (I'm a serious weightlifter too)

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> I used to do that...now if I'm hungry between meals I'll eat cashews or some other protein like that.
> 
> I have not had a protein shake/drink in 4-5 years.


Hmmm... I don't think you'll get enough protein from some cashews to build bulk and/or help muscle recovery.  My shake has 25 g of protein per serving (one of those little scoops mixed into a glass of water).  Cashews have ~5 g protein per oz.

----------


## QuickZ06

Lift harder, run faster, eat MORE!!!!!!!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Lift harder, run faster, eat MORE!!!!!!!


 Yeah, pretty much.   It's also important to have a plan.  Targeting muscle groups is important, as is keeping the routine varied (muscle confusion).  I typically do any given exercise till muscle exhaustion then move on and do it again later in the routine.

----------


## QuickZ06

> Yeah, pretty much.   It's also important to have a plan.  Targeting muscle groups is important, as is keeping the routine varied (muscle confusion).  I typically do any given exercise till muscle exhaustion then move on and do it again later in the routine.


Thats why I work out at 25 hour fitness, its that extra hour that really makes a difference........

----------


## Acala

I eat dried beef or beef jerky (homemade grass fed of course) immediately after my workouts.  I keep some in my gym bag.

----------


## Acala

> Thats why I work out at 25 hour fitness, its that extra hour that really makes a difference........


Giving 110%

----------


## Acala

> You can make a bunch of hard boiled eggs on the weekend, or whenever you have time. Then you'll have them handy throughout the week for breakfasts, snacks, to crumble on a salad, or to use in recipes. 
> 
> And yes, it does take a little effort to eat good stuff, but it's not as hard as you might think. Especially not in the summer and fall. Check out www.localharvest.org to find farmer's markets, co-ops, and other sources of quality meat, dairy and produce near you.


Yup.  I spend a lot more time in the kitchen now that I eat primal.  But I enjoy it.  One of the reasons Americans got into the miserable shape we are in is that we traded nutrition and flavor for convenience.  You are going to have to unwind that trade somewhat if you want to eat healthy.

You might want to look into Community Supported Agriculture in your area.  It will keep you supplied with healthy, fresh, organic produce.  In fact, you will probably find that it forces you to incorporate more vegetables into your diet or else it goes to waste.  I did.

----------


## TCE

I'm still on primal, none of the bad wheat stuff for me. Weight has stayed off even though I didn't have to lose that much. Breakfast could be more exciting since I can't eat eggs, but other than that, I can't complain. Tried cauliflower and I am not a fan, but hey, I'm glad I went out on a limb and tried it.

----------


## Seraphim

It was just an example. 

I eat a lot of protein.

I was eating about 6500 cals, 500g of protein per day when I was at my peak. Roughly 8% BF at 200 pounds (5'9.5 or 5'10).

Now, it's nothing like that.

Although I'm drinking a protein drink made by Bolthouse Farms, right now. I love their fruit smoothies and saw this protein drink. It's tasty. 29g of protein in it.

I want chicken right now...mmmm....chicken....




> Hmmm... I don't think you'll get enough protein from some cashews to build bulk and/or help muscle recovery.  My shake has 25 g of protein per serving (one of those little scoops mixed into a glass of water).  Cashews have ~5 g protein per oz.

----------


## Seraphim

Muscle confusion does not exist. 

What you are describing is boredom in your own mind. If you need to vary to keep yourself engaged...by all means. Your muscles, however, do not and cannot get bored/confused.

_The formula is simple. You either work your muscles less, the same or more than you did the day before._ 

So long as you eat and rest adequately (to recover from a work out) - there is little reason to change from one exercise to another. In doing so you virtually garuntee using inferior lifts.

I rarely change my basic lift routines. Heavy metal slags, compound movements. 

If you focus on squats, deadlifts and benchpress (and variations of these compound lifts), there is not one scientific reason to vary from these essentially full body movements.

If you are finding that you plateau with a certain exercise/lift/routine..it is not that your muscles are bored...it's that your muscles are TIRED. In fact, if you go 4, 5, 6, 7 + weeks without adequately eating/resting based on the level of taxation you exert on your body...you will exaust your CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM and THAT will be what truly plateaus you.

The only cure to this, is not a variatious in workout...but to NOT workout for 1-2 weeks.

If you bust your ass 3-4 months and don't sleep enough (or eat enough)...you will plateau...and until you take 2 weeks off and do NOTHING...you will NOT bust through the plateau...

If you go for 2 months like a champ and need rest...take a week off. A year? Don't touch a weight for a month.

You'll come back and within 2 real work out sessions you will be BLASTING through the plateaus.







> Yeah, pretty much.   It's also important to have a plan.  Targeting muscle groups is important, as is keeping the routine varied (muscle confusion).  I typically do any given exercise till muscle exhaustion then move on and do it again later in the routine.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Muscle confusion does not exist. 
> 
> What you are describing is boredom in your own mind. If you need to vary to keep yourself engaged...by all means. Your muscles, however, do not and cannot get bored/confused.
> 
> _The formula is simple. You either work your muscles less, the same or more than you did the day before._ 
> 
> So long as you eat and rest adequately (to recover from a work out) - there is little reason to change from one exercise to another. In doing so you virtually garuntee using inferior lifts.
> 
> I rarely change my basic lift routines. Heavy metal slags, compound movements. 
> ...


Yeah, "muscle confusion" is something of a misnomer.  However, doing the exact same routine every session does lead to plateaus.  This is why pro trainers vary each session's routine.  I found this out from experience.  There is a certain psychology involved. (this is the more scientific part.  Sport psychology is pretty interesting stuff.  It's possible to trick your brain into lifting much more than you think you can.)  

As far as the rest part of the equation-I find that working out MWF is sufficient.  1 full body day, and the other days should focus primarily on one muscle group. (arms, legs and back, etc) Each workout day should be separated by at least one rest day to allow the muscles to recover.

----------


## specsaregood

> I eat dried beef or beef jerky (homemade grass fed of course) immediately after my workouts.  I keep some in my gym bag.


Wanna share your favorite recipes?  Do you do anything to it?

----------


## recess

> Wanna share your favorite recipes?  Do you do anything to it?


Here is a great recipe for Jerky,
You can use any kind of meat you like, I do a lot of hunting so I use Elk or Deer Flank but beef is great too

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-t...#axzz1w6uICRud

----------


## Kluge

I have yet to find jerky that doesn't have sugar in it. Guess I'll have to wait to make it myself.

ETA: in stores

----------


## PatriotOne

Fridays Success Story....check out where Victor heard about the Primal Diet .

Dear Mark,

Until November of 2008 I had always been very fit and in shape. At the time I was 43 and kept my 5′ 8″ body at 160 lbs give or take a few pounds. I played competitive (amateur) tennis so I played 4 times a week (3 hours each day) plus some weekdays physical training early in the morning.

I never really dieted. My wife is Italian born and naturally very thin also. Weve always had a very Mediterranean diet. Wed eat pasta the way Italians do. That is, using it as a small warm appetizer and not a bathtub size dish so typical in the US way of eating, followed by plenty of fish, meats and lots a vegetables and fruit. Our 3 children have always been the school weirdos that would pull broccoli or spinach out of their lunch boxes instead of Twinkies or other similar crap. Weve been blessed that none of us have ever had real cravings for sweets.

On November 29th 2008 (Thanksgiving Friday) my beloved wife Ana woke up feeling horrible. Vomiting, headaches, etc She went through 3 pregnancies like clockwork, not even morning sickness.

Completely out of the blue we discovered that Ana had cancer all over her body. She had a primary tumor in her right breast, 2 ping-pong ball sized brain tumors, cancerous meningitis, cancer in her left lung, left kidney, her liver and the base of her spine. This was without ANY warning. Two days before she was playing tennis with her friends.

We were told she had 40 days to live and no hope. More than 40 months have passed and she is alive and well.

We went through hell and high-water, our children were 3, 7 and 9 when she got sick. She was totally bedridden for 8 months; her bodyweight was down to 75 lbs (shes 5′ 7″). I didnt work until August of 2011 (almost 3 years) nursing her back to health.

She has certain problems; shes blind in her left eye and has difficulties with her fine motor skills. Shes 100% ok mentally. The most important things are that our 3 kids can say good morning, mommy and I can say goodnight, my love every single day. To be able to hear and pronounce those words is like a daily Christmas gift.

Shes in COMPLETE remission. At Baptist Hospital in Miami they call Ana Miracle Girl.

What does all of this have to do with Primal? A lot.

To take care of Ana, I completely gave up sports and since I had to manage everything, I just couldnt handle the stress and all the healthy eating went down the drain. I ballooned at 206 lbs and my waist measured 47 inches.

I struggled for more than a year finding ways to get back in shape and nothing seemed to work.

Way before ever hearing anything related to Primal or paleo I always would argue with vegetarians telling them to knock off the BS because our teeth were set up as omnivores, thus we were designed to eat more than vegetables. However after feeling bad for so long I was about to try the vegetarian route.

*In December I discovered The Primal Blueprint, I heard Mark speak on an FM talk show (Peter Schiff show to be exact).* What he said made sense to me, so I bought the audiobook. I started researching more and by February I decided to follow the Primal/paleo guidelines. In that research I found other magnificent resources with tons of information and suggestions. Mr. Sisson and a few others have CHANGED my life. You have opened the path for me to get back to me. However I will never forget that Mark was the one who initially opened the door.

Im writing today because this morning I weighed in at 180 lbs, and my waist is down to 39.5. Since mid February Ive lost 26 lbs, reduced my waist by 7.5 inches and Im feeling better and better with each day.

I want to be at 170 before I start playing tennis again, since I dont want to hurt my knees due to excess weight  I should be there by June. Im thrilled to the verge of tears that Im so close to getting out on the courts again!!!!!

Primal/paleo has been a true wake up call. Simply by eliminating the grains, legumes, sugars and processed foods the weight has melted away. And my real persona has flourished again!!!!!

I have even recovered my sense of smell. Thats another story, but basically to have that sense I was told I needed mass amounts of steroids. I refused. I said Id rather be odor blind than take all the side effects of steroids. About 10 days after dropping grains, etc my sense of smell started to comeback. Today I feel like a bloodhound!!!!!

To wrap it up. Ana and the children are thrilled to see me getting healthy again. We all feel better and have discovered a lifestyle, which is not that different from what we used to do, but at the same time its made a huge difference. Before changing to Primal I just didnt feel good and couldnt muster the energy to start training again.

Now I feel healthy, vital and energetic once again. When I get to 170 I will also start SCUBA diving again (my other passion) and have promised that I will take our two oldest children to learn as soon as school is out (the youngest is only 6 and the minimum age is 10).

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Victor Gospodinoff

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/i-fee...#ixzz1w77hwTjW

----------


## Acala

> Wanna share your favorite recipes?  Do you do anything to it?


Actually I usually just eat plain beef dried in the dehydrator.  If I make jerky, it usually is just thrown together with vinegar, salt, garlic, pepper, and maybe some soy sauce.  So I guess the answer is "no, I don't have any recipe".  Hehehehe.  The taste of plain dried GF beef will grow on you.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Well here's my success story...
> 
> After four weeks of Primal living I have lost 10 pounds! Almost an inch off my waist, two inches off my hips and two inches off my lower abdomen (or kangaroo pouch as I usually refer to that area).
> 
> I feel a lot more energized when I wake up in the morning and have been getting to work 30 minutes earlier than usual most days. My energy level stays amazingly steady throughout the day. And I find it much easier to get to sleep before midnight. I also no longer wake up with a headache almost every single morning. 
> 
> My digestion issues (IBS) are gone. GONE! You just can't appreciate a properly functioning digestive system until you've lived without one for a decade or more.
> 
> I'm feeling happier and more positive even when things get stressful at work. It just seems easier to take things in stride.
> ...


Fan-freaking-tastic!  I can imagine it's hard for some people to believe these kind of results in 4 short weeks just by changing your diet to low carb but amazing things do happen really quick when you cut the carbs and chemicals and poisons!  Your story has made my day .

I've been outta town or really busy at home since the 21st so didn't have time to comment till now.  I've got way too much energy right now to sit in front of the computor.  Got back a few days ago from my sisters.  Went over to help her clean out/up her house.  Single with 2 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats, and going to graduate school for the past 6 yrs.....everything was outta control and disorganized.  Looked like hoarders-lite around there and she was about to have a mental breakdown over it.  I tell ya this because I worked like a freaking dog for 5 days over there.  I could have NEVER done what I did had I still been eating carbs.  Worked at least 12 hrs a day for 4 days and my energy levels stayed pretty high even having to go up and downs long stairs to the basement and long stairs to the upper level of the house hauling heavy boxes and furniture to boot.  I must of put 5 miles alone on those stairs.  The bonus was (pardon the TMI) my urine was a very dark yellow, which meant I was burning fat galore and in major ketosis.

After I got home it took me a 2 days for my muscles to recover from all the stairs and heavy lifting but I noticed my energy level was still awesome.  I kept looking for projects around my house but just did them slower because my muscles were sore.  After 2 days my muscles were fine and I ended up cleaning out my big shed (no small task) and then buying 7 gallons of paint and supplies in anticipation of me painting the exterior of my house.  I'm like a lioness constantly stalking around my house just looking for something to do to exhaust my energy.  If ya all don't hear much from me this summer it may be because I am up on the roof reshingling my neighbors house or something  .

If you want to do something extra for your hair, skin, nails try Andrew Lessman's Healthy Hair, Skin and Nails supplement.  That stuff is seriously awesome!

Thanks for your report SML.  I loved it!

----------


## Bruehound

Went Paleo January 10 and have lost 48 lbs and 4 inches. It is amazing and liberating. 

Be prepared to spend a lot more time cooking and preparing food. At first glance that doesnt seem like a big deal but before you can make the BBQ sauce from scratch you first have to make the homemade ketchup from scratch or before you can make the ranch dressing from scratch you first have to make the homemade mayo. *It is absolutely worth the extra time*. Yes, fresh and organic local food costs more but you will soon find the portions necessary to satisfy your appetite will be smaller.

----------


## Kluge

20 lbs gone, started doing yoga yesterday. Hard to do it effectively with a 1-year-old crawling all over me, but she thinks it's funny and I try to modify it to include her. The "rolling baby" pose may or may not have any health benefits.

----------


## PatriotOne

> 1 cheat day/week is perfectly fine.  Ideally keep it to 1 cheat meal, though.


Been there, done that.  I wouldn't suggest a cheat meal/day for most people starting out low carb.  In my experience, it's like quitting smoking for a few weeks and then thinking "just one cigarette" won't hurt.  Ya end up starting the physical carb cravings cycles all over again every week and have to do battle with the cravings.  If I don't cheat, I could care less about carbs.  If I had, say a pasta meal, I have to battle the cravings for several days again and usually lose the battle.

----------


## PatriotOne

> So I'm not going paleo; but i did cut out ALL grains from my diet --excluding beer -- about 2.5 weeks ago.  (kinda a big deal when you have to share all your meals with an italian woman).
> 
> I've lost 11 pounds so far with absolutely no other changes in behavior/diet and I feel just fine.


Awesomely awesome .  Last time I did Atkins, and when I got down to my target, I was able to add wine back on my regular consumption menu.  I was pleasantly surprised to discover it's very low in carbs (as is hard liquor).

----------


## Kluge

You guys have probably seen this, but if not, it's a fun read:

http://lewrockwell.com/stevo/stevo17.1.html




> The Disappearance of the Fat Libertarian
> 
> by Allan Stevo
> 
> Recently by Allan Stevo: Why We Shouldn’t Want the Media’s Help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Continues at link above.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I want to get started on this... its so hard to cut out grains and bread though.


For me, it was only hard for about a week and a half.  Slices of bread seductively danced in my head all day...hehe.  Cut the carbs totally for a week or 2 and your cravings should totally disappear unless you think "just this one helping of pasta/bread/cookie/etc, won't hurt.  Then you will crave them all over again for several days.

----------


## PatriotOne

> It is easier if you just go cold turkey and break the cycle of carbohydrate consumption>insulin spike>low blood sugar>appetite spike>carbohydrate consumption.  
> 
> But you DO have to condition yourself psychologically that you are finished with grain for good.  Otherwise you will nibble and then backslide.  Done that.


+rep for solid advice.

----------


## Acala

> Went Paleo January 10 and have lost 48 lbs and 4 inches. It is amazing and liberating. 
> 
> Be prepared to spend a lot more time cooking and preparing food. At first glance that doesnt seem like a big deal but before you can make the BBQ sauce from scratch you first have to make the homemade ketchup from scratch or before you can make the ranch dressing from scratch you first have to make the homemade mayo. *It is absolutely worth the extra time*. Yes, fresh and organic local food costs more but you will soon find the portions necessary to satisfy your appetite will be smaller.


Congratulations!

----------


## Acala

> 20 lbs gone, started doing yoga yesterday. Hard to do it effectively with a 1-year-old crawling all over me, but she thinks it's funny and I try to modify it to include her. The "rolling baby" pose may or may not have any health benefits.


Excellent!

----------


## PatriotOne

> Got another DEXA scan yesterday and the results are still coming in! 
> 
> Went Primal at the end of September 2011 weighing 230 and coming in at 40% body fat. Yesterday I weighed 173 pounds and measured in 24% body fat! I can't recommend Primal enough!


Dayum!  Poof......16% body fat gone.  And I bet you didn't have to go hungry and suffer while doing it right?

----------


## PatriotOne

> Primal all the way.
> 
> For about 2 months, all I've been eating (other than the odd splurge)...is meat, eggs, veggies, fruits, nuts, cheese....
> 
> I'm down in body fat, up in muscle, up in total body weight (I used to be a huge lifter, and Ive recently started lifting again so my body is exploding rather rapidly from the muscle memory...)...and most importantly...
> 
> *I FEEL MUCH BETTER*.


Yes!  Most people start low carb to lose weight but are pleasantly surprised to find out how much better they feel almost immediately....even before they lose the excess baggage.

----------


## Crickett

> Atkins died of a heart attack. And it's a horrible diet, because when the eliminate all carbs and whatnot, your cholesterol skyrockets and you're susceptible to stroke or heart attack. All things in moderation.


He most certainly did NOT die of a heart attack. He slipped on the ice on his way into work and hit his head. I remember the day he died.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I'm still on primal, none of the bad wheat stuff for me. Weight has stayed off even though I didn't have to lose that much. Breakfast could be more exciting since I can't eat eggs, but other than that, I can't complain. Tried cauliflower and I am not a fan, but hey, I'm glad I went out on a limb and tried it.


Have you tried brussel sprouts yet?  My favorite!  Trimmed, cut in half and steamed.  Butter and salt and pepper.  Yum.  Or trimed, halved and sauted in butter, red pepper flakes, fresh garlic...even yummier .

----------


## Acala

I started primal just because it seemd like a healthier diet.  I wasn't trying to lose weight.  I thought I was more or less okay weight wise.  Now I know I was carrying almost 40 pounds of excess fat around.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Went Paleo January 10 and have lost 48 lbs and 4 inches. It is amazing and liberating. 
> 
> Be prepared to spend a lot more time cooking and preparing food. At first glance that doesnt seem like a big deal but before you can make the BBQ sauce from scratch you first have to make the homemade ketchup from scratch or before you can make the ranch dressing from scratch you first have to make the homemade mayo. *It is absolutely worth the extra time*. Yes, fresh and organic local food costs more but you will soon find the portions necessary to satisfy your appetite will be smaller.


Your an animal Bruehound!  48 lbs .  + rep.

I find myself in the kitchen alot less but that is because I spend one day a week doing my shopping and prepping.  I buy the food and then clean the produce and trim and cut it and then store it all in gallon baggies so I just have to grab it and steam it or saute or whatever.  I make a huge salad twice a week and put it in a big baggie so I just grab it and toss with dressing.  I portion the meat out and season or marinate and put it in the freezer so I just take out whatever I want in the morn to thaw.  Etc., etc., etc.  I've got it down to a science practically so I don't have to spend much time making a mess except for 1 day .

----------


## PatriotOne

> 20 lbs gone, started doing yoga yesterday. Hard to do it effectively with a 1-year-old crawling all over me, but she thinks it's funny and I try to modify it to include her. The "rolling baby" pose may or may not have any health benefits.


20lbs?  + rep!  Remind me how long it took so I don't have to go searching your posts .  How's your cravings?  A daily battle or not even an afterthought?

----------


## PatriotOne

> You guys have probably seen this, but if not, it's a fun read:
> 
> http://lewrockwell.com/stevo/stevo17.1.html
> 
> 
> 
> Continues at link above.


I've noticed independently the Paleo/Libertarian connection.  Not uncommon to find Peter Schiff/Paleo or Lew Rockwell/Paleo, or Ron Paul/Paleo, etc., in the same sentence when reading Marks Daily Apple comments .

Last Friday's success story on Mark's Daily Apple featured Victor and included this in his write up:

_In December I discovered The Primal Blueprint, I heard Mark speak on an FM talk show (Peter Schiff show to be exact)._ 

And then I read some of the comments to his success story:

_Touching story.  I’m a s Schiff Head too!_

_me too. SO weird..I just listened to Mark’s interview on the Schiff show that was guest hosted by Tom Woods_

_Me too …and I’m a big Mises fan !!! hearing about Sisson on Schiff’s show (with Tom Woods guest-hosting) is about all the nerd-excitement I can take…_

_Wow I too first heard Mark on the Peter Schiff show and have been a Primal/Paleo freak since then! Inspiring!_

I thought that remarkable that so many commenters heard it on Schiff's show.

----------


## Kluge

> 20lbs?  + rep!  Remind me how long it took so I don't have to go searching your posts .  How's your cravings?  A daily battle or not even an afterthought?


Approximately 3-4 weeks. I have to approximate because I had a rough start while I was still figuring things out. Started doing it right 3 weeks ago.--but I am doing a hybrid with Atkins induction phase...which explains the faster than normal weight loss (for women at least.)

I've only had one dream where I was eating a giant sub.  Other than that, no problem with cravings aside from little twinges here and there--and that's only because I can't cook properly in this kitchenette.

10 lbs until I hit my first goal, and slowly go off induction.

----------


## PatriotOne

Jun 1st - Friday's success story at Mark's Daily Apple.  Not the usual weight loss story but a success story from an anorexic woman.  Shocking pictures posted at link below.

*I Cannot Imagine Living Any Other Way* 

Jun 1, 2012

Dear Mark,

I just wanted to thank you for your hard work and dedication to your blog.

I discovered Primal living during my recovery from anorexia. I didn’t give it a real shot until 5 months into recovery. I was just too afraid of all of that fat was going to make me fat!

During those 5 months, I gained up to an ideal weight for myself eating 3000-3500 calories a day. Oh, and lots and lots of carbs and lean protein – you know, that bodybuilding stuff. I still had no menstrual cycle and had a night eating problem. I was still depressed, anxious, and was still drooling over food I saw on the Food Network. I was getting really scared because I literally could not stop eating. I didn’t want to gain any more weight. I had decided I nothing to lose, so took a plunge into Primal living.

I obviously didn’t go cold turkey with the carbs. It took about a week to cut my carbs in half and eliminate most grains. (I swear carbs are like crack). I started eating lots of egg and cheese omelets, BEEF, whole avocados, some bacon. I was so excited eating cheeseburgers at my favorite burger place where they have grass-fed beef burgers…YUM. I knew if I didn’t eat enough fat and too much carbs at a meal, my cravings returned. I quickly learned this and became very consistent with my Primal choices.

About a month into the diet change, I noticed some changes. My anxiety after a meal decreased, and I was able to concentrate on school and my son more.  I started to feel my sex drive returning, was less hungry, was able to go longer periods without eating.

Then about a week ago, BAM, my period finally returned! I was so, so relieved and felt like I was back to my old self, but a more improved version.

I know this is not a typical success story, but I feel that my mental success is equally as important as my physical success. I am finally looking forward to movies, meeting new people, completing my school work, and playing with my 17 month old. I now eat to live instead of living to eat/binge by myself.

Don’t get me wrong, I am very pleased with my appearance. And I am glad that I don’t have to spend mindless hours running on the treadmill – how depressing! I have fallen in love with resistance training and have gained lots of strength.

Although I am sure there is no proof, I believe that the lack of saturated fats and too many carbs completely messed up my mental health. (It wasn’t until I turned vegan that my anorexia really peaked). I see so many people devote years to their eating disorder and sometimes even never recover. I feel very fortunate that I got out of that hell in a relatively short amount of time and am healthy again.

I found what lifestyle works for me and simply cannot imagine living any other way. I am so grateful that I discovered Primal living and happy that I am living life again!

Thanks, Mark!


Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/i-can...#ixzz1wZDVOwV5

----------


## PatriotOne

> Approximately 3-4 weeks. I have to approximate because I had a rough start while I was still figuring things out. Started doing it right 3 weeks ago.--but I am doing a hybrid with Atkins induction phase...which explains the faster than normal weight loss (for women at least.)
> 
> I've only had one dream where I was eating a giant sub.  Other than that, no problem with cravings aside from little twinges here and there--and that's only because I can't cook properly in this kitchenette.
> 
> 10 lbs until I hit my first goal, and slowly go off induction.


20 lbs in 3 weeks...**respect Kluge...respect**

There is a bit of a learning curve isn't there?  I remember my false starts also the first time I did it.  It's just so diametrically opposed to what we have been brainwashed with!  Hahahaha....giant subs.  Wierd because a footlong sub was my only "near miss" for the 6 weeks or so of my diet.  The damn "Subway" shop in a local grocery store was baking it's bread as I walked by it.  The smell was quite tempting  but I just kept walking to the meat section.  "Winning"!

----------


## Kluge

> 20 lbs in 3 weeks...**respect Kluge...respect**
> 
> There is a bit of a learning curve isn't there?  I remember my false starts also the first time I did it.  It's just so diametrically opposed to what we have been brainwashed with!  Hahahaha....giant subs.  Wierd because a footlong sub was my only "near miss" for the 6 weeks or so of my diet.  The damn "Subway" shop in a local grocery store was baking it's bread as I walked by it.  The smell was quite tempting  but I just kept walking to the meat section.  "Winning"!


Yeah. The learning curve for me was the omega-6: omega-3 ratio. I had walnuts, thinking they were among the healthiest foods out there, screwed up the whole ratio. Then I had a few slips where I gorged on some fruit during the carb withdrawal phase. Only grapefruit and raspberries, so not terrible, but I needed to keep things very strict up front...just had some major "wooziness." Since then not much of a problem...but then again, I haven't walked by a place serving world-class Margherita pizza either.

----------


## jj-

> Burn fat for energy.  It is healthier.


Controversial, some believe burning sugar is less stressful and better to the body. But don't have the links now. I'm in the camp that says eliminating grains is what is important, not carbs.

----------


## ZenBowman

> You guys have probably seen this, but if not, it's a fun read:
> 
> http://lewrockwell.com/stevo/stevo17.1.html
> 
> Continues at link above.


Nice.

Agree with everyone on here, once you go Paleo, life gets better, not just physically.

I used it in lieu of surgery for my sinusitis. So far, so good.

I think there's definitely a paleo-libertarian connection, especially amongst the younger libertarians who tend to favor the theory of evolution.

Maybe this is next:

----------


## jj-

> So I'm not going paleo; but i did cut out ALL grains from my diet --excluding beer -- about 2.5 weeks ago.  (kinda a big deal when you have to share all your meals with an italian woman).
> 
> I've lost 11 pounds so far with absolutely no other changes in behavior/diet and I feel just fine.


Sounds good. What's your main source of carbs? Fruit and potatoes?

----------


## Acala

> Controversial, some believe burning sugar is less stressful an better to the body. But don't have the links now. I'm in the camp that says eliminating grains is what is important, not carbs.


Eliminating grain will eliminate the bulk of carbs from most American's diet.  The majority of what is left would be added sugar, which almost everyone agrees is not healthy.  Remove that and you are pretty close to primal if you partake in moderation of the remaining carb sources: some starchy vegetables and some fruit.   

On the issue of carbs versus fat as fuel, read for yourself:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-met...#axzz1wZbxyhic

And if you want to see the hard science relating carb consumption to mental illness, check this out (I really like this woman because she tries to maintain a scientist's objectivity):

http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogsp...e-disease.html

My own experience is that using fat as fuel provides even energy levels and no hunger, even when I fast.

edit: by the way, I don't consider my diet to be "low carb".  I consider it to be normal carb but low inflammation.  I don't even think about counting carbs.  I eat lots of carrots and onions, occasionally some tubers, some fruit at every meal, even some white rice now and then when I go out for sushi.  It is probably a good and natural thing to OCCASIONALLY eat enough carbs at one sitting to cause an insulin spike just to keep your insulin mechanisms working optimally.  Paleo man almost certainly found a patch of tubers, a bush covered with ripe berries, or a bee hive now and again and probably gorged on it when he could.  But his daily fuel was fat, as is mine.

----------


## jj-

> I'm still on primal, none of the bad wheat stuff for me. Weight has stayed off even though I didn't have to lose that much. Breakfast could be more exciting since I can't eat eggs, but other than that, I can't complain. Tried cauliflower and I am not a fan, but hey, I'm glad I went out on a limb and tried it.


Are you sensitive to both the white and the yolk?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Controversial, some believe burning sugar is less stressful and better to the body.* But don't have the links now. I'm in the camp that says eliminating grains is what is important, not carbs.*


Eliminating grains is incredibly important, but carbs in general can be useful.  Fruits and veggies have carbs in them-just not the simple variety.  The previous poster is right that fat is a more efficient fuel than carbs.  That's one reason why whale oil used to be used for lamps.

----------


## jj-

> Eliminating grain will eliminate the bulk of carbs from most American's diet.  The majority of what is left would be added sugar, which almost everyone agrees is not healthy.  Remove that and you are pretty close to primal if you partake in moderation of the remaining carb sources: some starchy vegetables and some fruit.


If you don't want to go primal, you can still have huge amounts of carbs through fruits and potatoes.




> My own experience is that using fat as fuel provides even energy levels and no hunger, even when I fast.


Does your personal experience include a period where you ate 50%+ carbs but only from fruits and maybe potatoes?

---

I don't comment on the links because I read them all and there are also links that argue that burning carbs/sugar is better. I don't worry too much about the links because in the end it's about seeing what works for one's body, and maybe not everyone's ideal diet is the same.

----------


## specsaregood

> Sounds good. What's your main source of carbs? Fruit and potatoes?


some beans, some potatoes, $#@!load of veggies, milk and sugar in my coffee.   i don't like fruit.

----------


## Acala

> If you don't want to go primal, you can still have huge amounts of carbs through fruits and potatoes.
> 
> 
> 
> Does your personal experience include a period where you ate 50%+ carbs but only from fruits and maybe potatoes?
> 
> ---
> 
> .


Nope.  I don't like the feeling I get from massive doses of carbs, especially fructose.  It interrupts my satiation circuits and I get ravenous and end up gorging and then feeling inflamed.  Fructose has been shown to disrupt leptin receptors and insulin spikes are inflammatory.

----------


## Acala

> I don't comment on the links because I read them all and there are also links that argue that burning carbs/sugar is better. I don't worry too much about the links because in the end it's about seeing what works for one's body, and maybe not everyone's ideal diet is the same.


I would be interested in the links explaining why burning carbs is better.

----------


## jj-

> Nope.  I don't like the feeling I get from massive doses of carbs, especially fructose.  It interrupts my satiation circuits and I get ravenous and end up gorging and then feeling inflamed.  Fructose has been shown to disrupt leptin receptors and insulin spikes are inflammatory.


But that has been disputed. Some say fructose is only bad in the presence of lots of polyunsaturated fats and if you cut all vegetable oils and mayo and nuts high in polyunsaturated fats you can eat tons of fructose and it's beneficial. Again, a study is not going to tell you what's good for everyone, at least in the current state of the science, only trying these things out can determine what's best for one.

----------


## jj-

> I would be interested in the links explaining why burning carbs is better.


K. Gonna look for the link now.

----------


## Fredom101

> It's funny, 2 of my biggest interests lately have been RP/Liberty and Primal eating/lifestyle. Looks like Tom Woods is bringing the 2 together as well!
> 
> http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/going-primal/
> 
> The diet is basically Paleo style, eliminating grains and processed carbs, and embracing vegetables and high fat/protein animal foods. I just finished reading the book, and the science is very solid. It is based in evolutionary biology and working with your hormones, not against them. Also, the takes on exercise and lifestyle are great and scientifically sound. 
> 
> Any other Primal folks here on RPF?


That's awesome! I'm a big fan of paleo/primal, and my friend and I (both liberty nuts) do a podcast on this stuff combined with psychology at http://healthymindfitbody.com Lots of liberty-minded folks in the paleo movement....makes sense, you reject one set of propaganda about nutrition and you're likely to have rejected another set of propaganda about government.

----------


## Acala

> some beans, some potatoes, $#@!load of veggies, milk and sugar in my coffee.   i don't like fruit.


I used to put sugar in my coffee.  It was the only added sugar in my diet.  I struggled.  I tried stevia (yuck).  I tried erythritol (good, but hard to find and not cheap, and not really something paleo man was seeing much of, now is it?). I rationalized that it was only a little bit and I used brown sugar.  But I was not satisfied with the situation.  

And then, at my GF's suggestion, I tried it her way with cream and no sweetener.  After a week I liked it better than coffee with sugar.  Now, for me, sugar just masks the flavor of the coffee.  Oh, and I switched from cream to butter.  Yum.

----------


## Acala

> But that has been disputed. Some say fructose is only bad in the presence of lots of polyunsaturated fats and if you cut all vegetable oils and mayo and nuts high in polyunsaturated fats you can eat tons of fructose and it's beneficial. Again, a study is not going to tell you what's good for everyone, at least in the current state of the science, only trying these things out can determine what's best for one.


I agree that you should limit the PUFAs.  But tons of fructose is still going to give you an insulin spike.  There is no way around it.  Your body just can't handle blood glucose levels outside a narrow range.  Now if you could just nibble on fruit all day to regulate your blood glucose by regulating your intake, you could avoid an insulin spike.  But not really practical, is it?

----------


## specsaregood

> I used to put sugar in my coffee.  It was the only added sugar in my diet.  I struggled.  I tried stevia (yuck).  I tried erythritol (good, but hard to find and not cheap, and not really something paleo man was seeing much of, now is it?). I rationalized that it was only a little bit and I used brown sugar.  But I was not satisfied with the situation.  
> 
> And then, at my GF's suggestion, I tried it her way with cream and no sweetener.  After a week I liked it better than coffee with sugar.  Now, for me, sugar just masks the flavor of the coffee.  Oh, and I switched from cream to butter.  Yum.


Yeah, its pretty much the only sugar I intake -- never had a sweet tooth.  And yeah, I've got 2 year old container of stevia that will still be there after I pass -- yuck is right.     I think the sugar in my coffee is more habit at this point.   Salted or Unsalted butter?

----------


## jj-

> I would be interested in the links explaining why burning carbs is better.


Here:




> sugar (sucrose, fructose) is not an issue when polyunsaturated fats are not in the diet


Read the rest.

----------


## jj-

> Your body just can't handle blood glucose levels outside a narrow range.  Now if you could just nibble on fruit all day to regulate your blood glucose by regulating your intake, you could avoid an insulin spike.  But not really practical, is it?


Not practical, and unnecessary, because from my perspective there is no evidence that regulating your fruit intake is necessary.

----------


## Seraphim

Other than fiber in fruits, the carbs in fruits are simple sugars. That's not a bad thing though. They are very, very healthy sugars because they are very easy to digest and are excellent energy.

There's a huge difference between naturally occuring simple sugars (fruits, honey) and simple sugars that are refined/processed/HFCS. The former are AMAZING for you, the latter are early death sentences.




> Eliminating grains is incredibly important, but carbs in general can be useful.  Fruits and veggies have carbs in them-just not the simple variety.  The previous poster is right that fat is a more efficient fuel than carbs.  That's one reason why whale oil used to be used for lamps.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Other than fiber in fruits, the carbs in fruits are simple sugars. That's not a bad thing though. They are very, very healthy sugars because they are very easy to digest and are excellent energy.
> 
> There's a huge difference between naturally occuring simple sugars (fruits, honey) and simple sugars that are refined/processed/HFCS. The former are AMAZING for you, the latter are early death sentences.


Exactly!  Plus, when you subtract the fiber from the total carbs in fruit (net carbs), you'll find that the sugar/carb content in fruit is so small as to be irrelevant.

----------


## jj-

> I would be interested in the links explaining why burning carbs is better.


Link

----------


## PatriotOne

> Since then not much of a problem...but then again, I haven't walked by a place serving world-class Margherita pizza either.


Had to google Margherita pizza but it looks like just about everything on it is primal with the exception of the crust.  When your ready, slap those ingrediants on one of those primal almond flour pizza crust recipes and let me know how it turns out, k?  .


extra virgin olive oil 
garlic cloves
basil 
tomatoes
mozzarella cheese
parmesan cheese 
salt and pepper
Optional - crushed red pepper flakes, to taste
12 inches thin pizza crust (I use Boboli 12-inch thin crust)

----------


## Acala

> Here:
> 
> 
> 
> Read the rest.


Pretty thin on actual research.

----------


## Acala

> Link


He seems to be focused on the evils of PUFAs, with which I agree.  But I don't see where he says, or has any studies to show, that burning glucose is better than burning healthy fats for energy.

----------


## jj-

> He seems to be focused on the evils of PUFAs, with which I agree.  But I don't see where he says, or has any studies to show, that burning glucose is better than burning healthy fats for energy.


You might have missed it since it's a long article. Some quotes:

From the scientist:




> “*The protective effects of sugar, and the harmful effects of excessive fat metabolism, are now being widely recognized, in every field of physiology.* The unsaturated vegetable fats, linoleic and linolenic acid and their derivatives, such as arachidonic acid and the long chain fish oils, have excitatory, stress promoting effects, that shift metabolism away from the oxidation of glucose, and finally destroy the respiratory metabolism altogether. Since cell injury and death generally involve an imbalance between excitation and the ability to produce energy, it is significant that the oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids seems to consume energy, lowering cellular ATP (Clejan, et al, 1986).”


Part of the reason why avoiding PUFAs allows you to eat fructose:




> Brief exposures to polyunsaturated fatty acids can damage the insulin-secreting cells of the pancreas, and the mitochondria in which oxidative energy production takes place.


From the blogger:




> While Mark Sisson is calling excessive “fat metabolism” a paradigm shift – claiming it is superior, I don’t know if anything could convince me of this after my experience with a slow and steady degradation of health on a high-fat, near-zero sugar diet.


From another post:




> I do believe, especially considering my own experience with both a very high carbohydrate and a very high fat diet, that for things like vasodilation and athletic performance and recovery – a carbohydrate-based diet is vastly superior. Even something as simple as breathing through my nostrils is easier on a carbohydrate-based diet. While it is possible that there is no “best” form of fuel for the human body, nearly all top athletes in the world eat predominantly carbohydrates to increase speed, performance, recovery, and so on. It’s very possible there is a “best” form of fuel for the human body, and that glucose is it.

----------


## BamaAla

> Dayum!  Poof......16% body fat gone.  And I bet you didn't have to go hungry and suffer while doing it right?


Didn't suffer one minute. Well, that's not technically true; I did get a little carb flu about 5 days in, but it passed quickly. I eat when I'm hungry and don't when I'm not; the only "problem" with that is I find myself not hungry a lot more than I find myself hungry! 

Mark made this blog post the other day. I've already found it useful; some of y'all might as well. 
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/top-8...#axzz1wVNy7eJT

----------


## Kluge

> Had to google Margherita pizza but it looks like just about everything on it is primal with the exception of the crust.  When your ready, slap those ingrediants on one of those primal almond flour pizza crust recipes and let me know how it turns out, k?  .
> 
> 
> extra virgin olive oil 
> garlic cloves
> basil 
> tomatoes
> mozzarella cheese
> parmesan cheese 
> ...


I'll try it, but a Margherita is 25% fresh buffalo mozz, 25% fresh tomatoes, 25% fresh basil and 25% crust. Dunno if I'd be better off trying the toppings in a portobello mushroom. Either way, I'll let you know.

----------


## specsaregood

> I used to put sugar in my coffee.  It was the only added sugar in my diet.  I struggled.  I tried stevia (yuck).  I tried erythritol (good, but hard to find and not cheap, and not really something paleo man was seeing much of, now is it?). I rationalized that it was only a little bit and I used brown sugar.  But I was not satisfied with the situation.  
> 
> And then, at my GF's suggestion, I tried it her way with cream and no sweetener.  After a week I liked it better than coffee with sugar.  Now, for me, sugar just masks the flavor of the coffee.  Oh, and I switched from cream to butter.  Yum.


I've been having my coffee without sugar and just half/half the past few days and haven't missed it one bit.  It was like I thought, just a habit.  Thanks for the recommendation I try it again.

----------


## PatriotOne

*Interview with Nora Gedgaudas - Hour 1 - The Paleo Diet, Primal Body & Primal Mind*

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio...RIR-120610.php

June 10, 2012

Nora Gedgaudas is one of the world's leading experts on Paleolithic (Paleo) nutrition and author of the international bestselling book "Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond The Paleo Diet For Total Health and a Longer Life." She is Board-certified in Holistic Nutrition through the National Association of Nutritional Professionals and is a Certified Nutritional Therapist. Nora served as a trainer for the State of Washington Institute of Mental Health, illuminating nutrition's impact on mental health for State health care workers at all levels. She maintains a private practice in Portland, Oregon as both a Certified Nutritional Therapist and a Board-certified Clinical Neurofeedback Specialist. In August 2011, Nora was a featured presenter at the Ancestral Health Symposium at UCLA-billed as "the Woodstock of evolutionary medicine." We'll discuss the pre-agriculture diet and lifestyle. Also, we cover the negative impacts of agriculture upon our environment and the ill effects of grain in our bodies. Nora provides specific information on why the paleo diet is the best for the human body.

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## PatriotOne

It’s Friday, everyone! And that means another Primal Blueprint Real Life Story from a Mark’s Daily Apple reader.

My wife Cynthia and I embarked on a six month journey and discovered what it means to be Fat-Burning Beasts. We have been intrigued with discovering answers to questions like “what is the protocol, how would we know if we have achieved Fat-Burning Beast status, what is the body’s response, and ultimately, how far can one push the limits of a Fat-Burning Beast? On our journey in answering these questions, we lost weight…our percent body fat dipping by 7 points, we improved sleep, seasonal allergies all but disappeared and we improved our mental acuity. But the greatest gift of all has been passing on the keys to better health and ultimately happiness to family, friends, and co-workers who we have inspired enough to explore for themselves the Primal Blueprint.



Before we begin, a short introduction of our Primal journey to date is in order. Cynthia and I consider ourselves triathletes. Mind you not to the stature of Mark Sisson’s trophy room, but accomplished in our own right with a combined 35 years experience culminating in 25 Ironmans combined with the last two of these scheduled for later this summer. Over the years, we have come to center our lifestyle to compete at multiple distances with a typical gearing up in early spring, racing through October and taking off two months to enjoy the holidays (or season of gluttony). Interestingly enough, every year it has been the two short months of November and December which have caused us greatest concern in reflection. Pre-Primal we would indulge ourselves with all of the grain-laden, sugary-coated treats packing on 15 to 25 pounds each only to find ourselves feeling miserable by January and looking for ways to drop the weight. It was this past January where we once again found ourselves struggling in miserable physical condition and embarking on a new year of training. We were again researching for ways to best lose the effortlessly gained weight. Yes, effortlessly gained.

After hours of internet searching through all of the so called diets, we ultimately landed on Mark’s Daily Apple. Cynthia and I are trained scientists who were completely amazed by the information we were reading about The Primal Blueprint. It all seemed to make sense biologically, and besides, who doesn’t like bacon? We were hooked from the beginning. We even traveled to PrimalCon 2012 traveling across the country where we could meet the Guru Mark himself along with so many other amazing individuals seeking (and finding) good health with an ancestral approach to eating and playing. As it turns out, this conference changed our beliefs for living and has further solidified this new (old) lifestyle we were adopting.

Skipping ahead in our story, we have been Primal for 6 strong months and have found our race focus changing for this year. We no longer focus on a PR, but more so on how to do a race Primally, with clean energy, and to get in touch with our inner spiritual selves, ultimately accomplishing the same distances with less training and more fun time. Who wouldn’t like that? Our bodies, as many of you have discovered for yourselves, have changed in so many ways. Of course we lost our effortlessly gained holiday weight, but we also realized more advantages. As I said, our percent body fat dipping by 7 points, improved sleep, seasonal allergies all but eradicated, more motivated, and improved mental acuity (we think…).

So let’s talk about being keto-adapted. Our first opportunity to test and see if we achieved Fat-Burning Beast status arrived late April in the form of a marathon. Up to this point, many of our longer training runs consisted of fueling with a typical low-carb (50 g or under) Primal meal the evening prior and training the following morning in a fasted state (no breakfast and no gels/bars to fuel during). We learned very early on in our Ironman training the importance of maintaining electrolyte balance to avoid cramping or even worse, hyponatremia). We found running on coconut water (VitaCoco) contained the perfect balance of hydration and electrolytes…yes we know it is low in sodium so we carried salt/electrolyte tabs just in case. But how would we fuel on race day? Our next struggle was to answer this question as our marathon quickly approached. From our readings and discussions with others online, we decided to add additional carbs the few nights leading into the event with acceptable starchy tubers such as sweet potatoes to fill our muscle glycogen stores. We also decided we would use gels and drink the offered course “sports” beverage (Gator…you-know-what) to fuel during the event. We struggled with accepting our decided meal plan and fueling because ultimately we did not feel we were remaining Primal. As it turns out, our plan was a big mistake! We both found ourselves “bloated” at the start line by having rapidly increased our daily carb count with sweet potatoes. Our bodies simply were not adapted to the unexpected surge. The gels and on-course sports beverages were equally a poor choice. Coincidentally, we both were bonking by mile 15. This was unexpected and not experienced in our low-carb training for the race. Even worse, for days following we both felt horrible with a distended bloating feeling in our guts. We simply had shifted our metabolisms to a keto-adapted low-carb state and confused our bodies by asking them to process the added sugars/starches.

From what we had read, we were supposed to digest the carbs and gels with no issue since we would be pushing ourselves to our aerobic limits as we attempted to PR. Not wanting to feel this way again, we decided to test the other side of this equation. Again, from our readings we learned individuals with a body fat of 10% has access to over 40,000 kcal from body fat alone as compared to the average sugar-burner with access to 2,000 kcal in the form of stored glycogen (J.Volek, S. Phinney; The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance). The “trick” to utilizing this plethora of energy would be to remain in a controlled aerobic keto-adapted state, which we would gauge by being able to comfortably carry on a conversation during the event. Coincidentally, many of our training runs were accomplished in this manner (who knew?). Adding to the challenge of being a Fat-Burning Beast, we decided to compete in a fasted state during the event after eating a standard Primal dinner of good fats, proteins and vegetables the evening prior. By doing so, we would be assuring our energy supplies were in fact due to our keto-adapted abilities. We would later call this Primal endurance. Unlike our ability to open the refrigerator to a smorgasbord of meats and vegetables, I’m sure Grok had to deal without fueling from time to time.

Our first Primal endurance test was a half Ironman just a few weeks ago. Incredibly, we competed in this fasted state only taking on water and electrolyte tabs for the entire event. By gauging where our aerobic threshold was and keeping our effort slightly below, we were able to comfortably finish without putting in any of the sugary gels, liquids and without the typical carbo-loading pasta party the night prior. Naturally, we would not experience a PR but hopefully something much more (in our opinion) magical…the ability to be master of our metabolisms. Not only did we finish in a strong state, this particular event offered roasted chicken, salad greens and fruits, at the finish line…simply heaven for Primal Fat-Burning Beasts like us. Whoo hoo! We even ate hunks of butter meant to accompany the bread basket (without the bread of course!). After finishing our Primal fare, we loaded our bikes up, drove 7 hours home arriving after midnight, and arrived on time at work the following day. We asked ourselves, could a sugar-burner have “burned the candle” on both ends as we have? We obviously felt incredibly better as compared to our sugar-carb laden race experience earlier in the year.

So what about recovery you ask? Well, I had an annual bike ride I’ve participated in for a few years now planned for the following Saturday (only six day later). Oh yeah, the ride was from High Point, NJ to Cape May, NJ in a day (207 miles). Unfortunately, Cynthia could not join in the fun since she had to stay home and take care of our four Show Boxers and old lab mix (but that’s another story). Wondering if I could expand my personal Primal endurance time, I repeated the experiment. This time, however, I doubled the exercise while fasting time and covered 12 hours worth of cycling on mostly water, coconut water, and electrolyte tabs. I had pedaled 170 miles before partaking in what was the most delicious tasting avocado, bacon, grass-fed burger ever (without the bun of course). It is amazing how the taste buds come to life after a long fasting. I am perfectly content accepting a slightly slower pace while staying in the aerobic zone so long as I can remain Primal. Furthermore, our future goals include increasing our aerobic threshold in order to compete at even higher intensities while remaining keto-adapted. In the beginning, we were of course skeptical as we felt drained and tired as our bodies were morphing from our sugar-burning days into capable Fat-Burning Beasts. It’s a process where small modifications over time can help achieve success. We do not use the 80/20 rule as we have found we feel better and don’t feel the need for the “20” simply because we feel so good. Cynthia and I are not sure where this journey will take us other than knowing we have experienced feeling super fit and healthy all while training less and being true to our Primal selves.

In the short six months we have been Primal, we have been most humbled by the number of family, friends, and co-workers we have inspired to explore the Primal Blueprint for themselves. Perhaps this is the greatest gift of all – passing on the keys to better health, and ultimately happiness. We have personally witnessed others reclaim their health, drop medications, and in general, just feel better about themselves. Life is good.

Wishing you all many success stories of your own and to those you may “pay it forward” to.


Pics here:

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-...#ixzz1ypx9uW5q

----------


## Luciconsort

> It's definitely a tough switch to make, I kind of switched into it slowly over time. I gotta say, a nice dallop of grass-fed butter on vegetables goes a long way to making me appreciate them


cheese is ok? you could put cheese on anything and make it edible  if so i'm sold.

----------


## trey4sports

> cheese is ok? you could put cheese on anything and make it edible  if so i'm sold.


nope, dairy is a no-no on the primal diet. Although, some folks tend to really stretch that.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> cheese is ok? you could put cheese on anything and make it edible  if so i'm sold.


 Yes, cheese is OK.  The more "natural," the better, of course -- grass-fed cattle, non homogenized, non pasteurized, etc.

----------


## Kluge

> nope, dairy is a no-no on the primal diet. Although, some folks tend to really stretch that.


Don't turn someone off to the diet just because of cheese.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/chees...#axzz1yqFq217N

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## jj-

> nope, dairy is a no-no on the primal diet. Although, some folks tend to really stretch that.


The way I understand it, dairy is not allowed on paleo, but primal is paleo + dairy, so cheese is allowed on a primal diet.

----------


## Luciconsort

> The way I understand it, dairy is not allowed on paleo, but primal is paleo + dairy, so cheese is allowed on a primal diet.


that's good enough for me lol

----------


## BamaAla

> cheese is ok? you could put cheese on anything and make it edible  if so i'm sold.


The short answer for Primal: if you tolerate dairy, go for it.

Short answer for Paleo purist: No; dairy is just as bad as legumes and grains.

----------


## trey4sports

> The way I understand it, dairy is not allowed on paleo, but primal is paleo + dairy, so cheese is allowed on a primal diet.



that's not really right. Dairy is not allowed on the primal diet. The caveat is that Mark has kind of indicated that if you use it a sensible indulgence then you'll be ok. However, going back to what i said though, Primal is not paleo + dairy. Primal would be better described as paleo + increased saturated fat intake.

----------


## specsaregood

> I've lost 11 pounds so far with absolutely no other changes in behavior/diet and I feel just fine.


Down a solid 17lbs now.   Cut out the sugar from my coffee, no wheat, only grains is some grilled corn on the cob which I aint eliminating from the diet during the summer and some corn chips.   

Making a bunch of jerky today.

----------


## PatriotOne

Friday's success story.  Click on the link if you are a data nerd.  He has some nice graphs he plotted while, ummmmm, being primal.

Hi Mark,

I’ve been Primal now for over a year. I came upon The Primal Blueprint when searching for resources on paleo dieting. Little did I know that I would find a whole lifestyle that would gel so well with my understanding of the human body.

My initial reasons for going Primal were that I was starting a family. I was studying Medical Nanotechnology at University and was working as an orderly at the same hospital my wife had been working at for 15 years. We were recently married and expecting our first child. Of course, my first child arriving during my mid 30′s made me sit up and think about my health. My initial thoughts had been, “I’ve never smoked, drank or done drugs, so I’m very healthy. I’ll last past 100 easy”. However, what I was seeing every day disturbed me.



As an orderly, the only thing you can offer patients is some comfort through a basic chat. What had disturbed me was the fact that I was talking to a great many people who had renal problems, cancer, etc., and swore blind they’d been following health guidelines as given to them by our government (Australian) and their doctors. At first I thought that they were obviously lying or delusional. However, when it occurred time after time I began questioning. I also began listening to my body and understanding that even though I had a job where I was walking 20,000 steps a day pushing beds and wheelchairs, I didn’t feel fit. My body ached, I injured easily and got easily out of breath. This was strange to me considering that I was following what would be considered a very healthy lifestyle.

So my search began in February 2011. By March 2011 I had read your book, joined your website and was living Primal. The transition for me was no issue. I had been trying to NOT live this way my whole life, so letting go of the reigns was incredibly easy for me. I had no low carb flu even though I was a carb machine prior to PB. I’ve transitioned back into IT (my previous career) as I needed a better income for when bubs came along. So every lunch I walk 4 km to get in my slow movement. I’m known in the office as the guy with the funny looking shoes (VFF’s) who’ll walk in any weather.

I brought a home gym. A Force USA Power Rack that I’m absolutely, insanely happy with. I stick to 3 workouts a week. It’s hard. I want to lift every day, but I force myself to do just the 3 sessions. Sprinting is proving difficult to fit in with bubs here now and another on the way. But I’ll slowly introduce it in.



I feel insanely fantastic. It’s sickening to others! I eat my fat-heavy Primal lunches at work and everyone shakes their head at how I got so lean eating that type of food. People always ask me how I did it, then their eye’s glaze over when I tell them. I don’t mind. More meat for me!

Previously I had been told that I could never jog again due to shin splints. Well, I went for a jog a few weeks ago. 2.7 km in my KSO’s. It was the first time I had jogged for any length of time in over a decade. I couldn’t believe the result. The whole jog felt super easy, my breathing was the easiest it has ever been and that’s including when I used to play rugby. The results were amazing and my shins didn’t even get a twinge. I’m not interested in making jogging a part of my normal routine, but it’s nice to know the capability is there when I need it.

Probably the biggest benefit though is that I always have energy for my family. I get up early, get bubs breakfast ready, do a full day of work with my walk in the middle. Come home, clean and sometimes cook. Feed bubs, play with her and bath her, then put her to bed. Then Mon-Wed-Fri I’m out in the shed lifting heavy weights. The amount of work I get through now makes me feel so bad for all the lost years when I had low energy and motivation. Our second pregnancy is taking it out of my wife, the exhaustion has really knocked her about. She’s been on bed rest in hospital for 6 weeks and it looks like she’ll be in there for 6 weeks more at least. Having enough energy to step up and take care of my family the way I have wouldn’t have been possible before Primal.

Although my goal was health, I was keen in watching my weight and waist size. I got so skinny at one point that my wife’s family held a mini-intervention for me during my father-in-law’s birthday party. I proceeded to tell them that I was eating plenty of food. Then I grabbed a little bit of fruit salad, and a massive stack of freshly whipped cream and said, “Try and keep up now!”

My biggest piece of advice to others would be to work the process exactly as PB sets it out. Forget the results for a year. I’ve charted my entire year on PB in an Excel spreadsheet and have some charts to share. I thought these would help people more than a photo of me. You can see from the charts that weight loss was anything but linear and consistent. Remember, this whole time I just worked the process. No real tweaking. I see a lot of forum posts that are along the lines of “It’s been 2 weeks and I’ve hit a plateau”. No, you haven’t. See my charts.

Pure Weight Loss

You can see from this chart that the weight loss was anything but linear and consistent. I tried to measure my weight as often as I could under the exact same conditions everyday. In total I lost about 30 lbs, but then you’ll notice the number go back up around the 273rd day. This was just after I got my Force USA Power Rack.



Body Fat %

I measured my BF with Tanita Body Fat Scales (impedance). I measured as often as possible under the same conditions (when I arrived home from work). You can see my body fat drop quite dramatically. It currently sits around 18%. However, I use the standard setting. If I use the Athlete setting, which I probably should now, it says my BF is 10%. But either way, you can see the reduction is quite dramatic.



Lean Body Mass

Probably the most telling chart of all. It didn’t change too much at all during the whole process. People kept telling me that eating this way would reduce my muscle mass and I’d rebound later with more fat. I would like to know how long I keep having to prove them wrong before they finally get it.



Waist

This is probably the most amazing chart to me. I haven’t had a 34 inch waist since high school!



To finish up I’d just like to thank you for putting all of the information together into an easy to follow lifestyle. That’s no easy feat and you and your team have nailed it. It’s made a massive difference in my life and I thank you for it.

Regards,

Shane Roelofs


Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/384-d...#ixzz1zVXbsUBg

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## PatriotOne

> Down a solid 17lbs now.   Cut out the sugar from my coffee, no wheat, only grains is some grilled corn on the cob which I aint eliminating from the diet during the summer and some corn chips.   
> 
> Making a bunch of jerky today.


Nice!  As far as the rest of the post....lalalalalalala....I can't hear you......grilled corn....lalalalalala.....can't hear you.....corn chips......lalalalala...covers ears.

How did your jerky turn out?  Got a good primal recipe to share?  I'm mulling over whether I want to buy a dehydrator and make some myself.

----------


## trey4sports

my uncle just hooked me up with a 5lb roll of his homeade venison summer sausage. This is from wild deer he killed himself. SCORE!

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## crhoades

> I dunno about primal, definitely simple.  I just made 3 different types out of some london broil.
> 1. I marinated in a container full of the klaussen pickel "juice".
> 2. I marinated in soy sauce
> 3. I left plain.
> 
> then when it is all done, i throw them in a brown bag with a bunch of big sea salt and shake it all around.  
> 
> They turn out decent.  My teething toddler loves all of them.  I like the pickle one but i grew up eating brisket marinated in the same stuff.  My wife likes the soy sauce one.  the plain one is decent too.


Not to kill your buzz but check out the ingredients of your soy sauce.  Usually contains wheat gluten in the common varieties.  I've found gluten free soy sauce at Whole Foods.  Depends on how much of a Paleo/Primal purist you're shooting for or how well you handle gluten.

----------


## PatriotOne

> I dunno about primal, definitely simple.  I just made 3 different types out of some london broil.
> 1. I marinated in a container full of the klaussen pickel "juice".
> 2. I marinated in soy sauce
> 3. I left plain.
> 
> then when it is all done, i throw them in a brown bag with a bunch of big sea salt and shake it all around.  
> 
> They turn out decent.  My teething toddler loves all of them.  I like the pickle one but i grew up eating brisket marinated in the same stuff.  My wife likes the soy sauce one.  the plain one is decent too.


Pickle juice?  Now there's something I would have never thought to do in a million years.

Jerky for a teething toddler?  Wowzer.  That's brilliant!

----------


## Acala

Hey, for you primal/paleo folks longing for something crunchy to dip in your salsa or guacamole, I can now give my full endorsement to: fried pork rinds.  These will absolutely fill in for corn chips.  You wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis as pork has too much omega 6 in it.  But now and again it should be fine.

----------


## specsaregood

> Hey, for you primal/paleo folks longing for something crunchy to dip in your salsa or guacamole, I can now give my full endorsement to: fried pork rinds.  These will absolutely fill in for corn chips.  You wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis as pork has too much omega 6 in it.  But now and again it should be fine.


Thanks,  we have 20 tomato plants and generally devour gallons of homemade pico de gallo during the summer.  I'll give pork rinds a chance.  On a sidenote: I tried some "lentil chips" a couple months back and they tasted familiar for some reason...it took until about the end of the bag that I realized they had a distinct taste like pork rinds...  that might be another option for those not too strict about the paleo/primal thing.

----------


## Romulus

How does dairy fit into the primal deal?

Yogurt is great for you...

----------


## Kluge

> Hey, for you primal/paleo folks longing for something crunchy to dip in your salsa or guacamole, I can now give my full endorsement to: fried pork rinds.  These will absolutely fill in for corn chips.  You wouldn't want to eat them on a regular basis as pork has too much omega 6 in it.  But now and again it should be fine.


I've tried pork rinds--bleh. They make the back of my throat feel strangely furry. Maybe with salsa it won't be so bad?

----------


## Acala

> How does dairy fit into the primal deal?
> 
> Yogurt is great for you...


It's on the fringe.  I eat a lot of butter but not much else dairy.  Not many primal people get their undies in a bunch over fermented dairy like yogurt.  So as long as it doesn't have added sugar or other unwholesome stuff, I think you are fine with it.

----------


## Acala

> I've tried pork rinds--bleh. They make the back of my throat feel strangely furry. Maybe with salsa it won't be so bad?


I never liked them plain.  Still don't.  I didn't like them at all until I tried dipping them.  Now they are my little crispy friends.

----------


## Kluge

> I never liked them plain.  Still don't.  I didn't like them at all until I tried dipping them.  Now they are my little crispy friends.


I'll have to get or make a fresh salsa and try them again. If it doesn't work out with the rinds, at least the salsa is good on fish or chicken.

----------


## specsaregood

Lost a few more pounds, moved a delivered ton of rocks around in 100heat without feeling the least bit old or tired, was surrounded by chips and breads and all kinds of crap over the holiday week and didn't have an urge to eat any of it -- not one little bit -- feeling lighter and stronger  than i have in years with no changes other than cutting out all those carbs -- which were always my greatest love.    good $#@! this is.   And i still haven't even given up the beer.

----------


## BamaAla

> Lost a few more pounds, moved a delivered ton of rocks around in 100heat without feeling the least bit old or tired, was surrounded by chips and breads and all kinds of crap over the holiday week and didn't have an urge to eat any of it -- not one little bit -- feeling lighter and stronger  than i have in years with no changes other than cutting out all those carbs -- which were always my greatest love.    good $#@! this is.   And i still haven't even given up the beer.


Awesome news! Keep up the good work.

I'm 12 days (probably) from my next DEXA scan, so I'll let y'all know how it goes. I'm hopeful that I am at 20% body fat or maybe a touch below, but I won't be too upset if I'm a little above...I was at 40% this time last year! I know that, if I stay the course, I will be down near the 10-12 marks in no time flat!

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## trey4sports

> that is great.   my wife was deadset against this change in lifestyle and I had to propose it a good 4 times before finally I put my foot down and said, "listen, I don't care if you make pasta for dinner, I'm not eating it.  I'll pick out the vegetables and not complain; but don't expect me to eat the wheat."   so she finally relented and was making herself a little carb side dish for meals.   Well she isn't doing that anymore, she is losing weight too and i don't get any complaints about dinner planning any longer.



sounds like a sustainable life change. 

P.S. Spaghetti squash is a great alternative to pasta. I'll saute some olive oil, butter, and garlic with a bit of shrimp and put it all on a bed of spaghetti squash for a primal alternative to Scampi alla Griglia.

----------


## dannno

> sounds like a sustainable life change. 
> 
> P.S. Spaghetti squash is a great alternative to pasta. I'll saute some olive oil, butter, and garlic with a bit of shrimp and put it all on a bed of spaghetti squash for a primal alternative to Scampi alla Griglia.


I got some NoOodles, zero calorie, zero carb noodles made of yam flour and lime. 

They come mostly cooked in a container of liquid. Smells kinda fishy when you open it for some reason. You gotta drain, then rinse for at least a minute, then fry them to dry em out a little bit. Then you gotta cook them with the sauce they are going in for a at least 5 or 6 minutes so they can soak it up a little. Apparently, then, they are pretty good. I had them one time and I didn't know cause the full prep instructions are not found on the package I don't think... only rinsed them for 30 seconds and only cooked them for about a minute and they didn't come out very good.. but the ones at the bottom of the dish in the hot liquid, by the end, weren't too bad.. but I'm going to try again soon and see how it goes.

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-182540...FSQbQgodgl6ZeA

----------


## trey4sports

> I got some NoOodles, zero calorie, zero carb noodles made of yam flour and lime. 
> 
> They come mostly cooked in a container of liquid. Smells kinda fishy when you open it for some reason. You gotta drain, then rinse for at least a minute, then fry them to dry em out a little bit. Then you gotta cook them with the sauce they are going in for a at least 5 or 6 minutes so they can soak it up a little. Apparently, then, they are pretty good. I had them one time and I didn't know cause the full prep instructions are not found on the package I don't think... only rinsed them for 30 seconds and only cooked them for about a minute and they didn't come out very good.. but the ones at the bottom of the dish in the hot liquid, by the end, weren't too bad.. but I'm going to try again soon and see how it goes.
> 
> http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-182540...FSQbQgodgl6ZeA



i'lll be damned! I'll have to pick some of those up.

----------


## Chester Copperpot

> The hardest thing about getting over simple carbs is that they're actually addicting.  Your body craves that garbage for some reason, and it takes a week or two to get it completely over the junk.  Once you get through that phase, it becomes much easier.


This is absolutely true.... For anybody out there who ever gets those sugar cravings  at night time... Just be strong for about 2 weeks and then the addiction goes away.. no more cravings.

----------


## Chester Copperpot

> I know we've established this diet is different from Atkins, but I do tell you guys my experience with the Atkins diet.
> 
> I've gone on it twice.  The first time I weighed about 230 lbs.  In the first two weeks I got down to about 215 lbs.  Pretty awesome.  But I do have an eating problem, and I began binging.  I gained all that weight back.
> 
> The second time I tried it I was at 260 lbs.  This time something went terribly wrong.  My heart started palpitating every 40 seconds or so.  It got to where my chest felt like I had been coughing for ten hours straight.  I could feel my heart stop beating for a good second and a half, and then come back with one thunderous beat.  I'm pretty sure THAT was a bad sign.  So I went to the hospital, pretty convinced that I was about to have a heart attack.  They gave me an IV, and all of a sudden the palpitations came about once an hour instead once or twice a minute.  I figure whatever was in that IV gave me whatever my body needed to get back on track.
> 
> I figure it had to do with the low carbs.  My body was NOT digging it at all.  However, maybe since you eat more fruit on the primal diet, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me.


More likely than not you had low potasium.. Potasium regulates your heart rate well... Im sure its the reason people get panic attacks

----------


## Chester Copperpot

> Muscle confusion does not exist. 
> 
> What you are describing is boredom in your own mind. If you need to vary to keep yourself engaged...by all means. Your muscles, however, do not and cannot get bored/confused.
> 
> _The formula is simple. You either work your muscles less, the same or more than you did the day before._ 
> 
> So long as you eat and rest adequately (to recover from a work out) - there is little reason to change from one exercise to another. In doing so you virtually garuntee using inferior lifts.
> 
> I rarely change my basic lift routines. Heavy metal slags, compound movements. 
> ...


Thank you.. That was a very informative post..

----------


## dannno

> i'lll be damned! I'll have to pick some of those up.


Ya, I picked up too many without trying them first.. I should have waited to report back but I thought I'd throw it out there, I have read positive reviews from people who have followed these directions.

----------


## dannno

> More likely than not you had low potasium.. Potasium regulates your heart rate well... Im sure its the reason people get panic attacks


Avocados and seafood are good sources of potassium, but apparently so are almonds and pork, and beef has a descent amount. I'm not sure if that would be a common deficiency for someone on atkins.

Manganese deficiency can cause a drop in HDL, that is a pretty common deficiency

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/2-mor...#axzz20MK5u9DI


Not sure if it could have been choline, but that is another common deficiency for some people on paleo/primal.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> I'll have to get or make a fresh salsa and try them again. If it doesn't work out with the rinds, *at least the salsa is good on fish or chicken*.


Also excellent on eggs/omlettes.

----------


## trey4sports

> Also excellent on eggs/omlettes.


i swear, just about anything is good with eggs. I've been throwing some tomato-basil bruschetta on 'em and they are delicious.

----------


## dannno

> i swear, just about anything is good with eggs. I've been throwing some tomato-basil bruschetta on 'em and they are delicious.


So I was bad and got some beef chorizo, just because I've never had real chorizo before, it smells so good and the tofu kind is so god damn delicious.

There were two brands, one had worse $#@! in it than the other and the brand that was slightly better was out of pork.. hence the beef.. No carbs but it does have nitrates, which I know are pretty bad. It's the only meet I've bought so far with nitrates, and I probably won't do it again for a while.

It would be so awesome to find a pasture fed primal source for beef chorizo..

----------


## jj-

> finally I put my foot down and said, "listen, I don't care if you make pasta for dinner, I'm not eating it.  I'll pick out the vegetables and not complain; but don't expect me to eat the wheat."


lol. i bet that's exactly how it went.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> Avocados and seafood are good sources of potassium, but apparently so are almonds and pork, and beef has a descent amount. I'm not sure if that would be a common deficiency for someone on atkins.
> 
> Manganese deficiency can cause a drop in HDL, that is a pretty common deficiency
> 
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/2-mor...#axzz20MK5u9DI
> 
> 
> Not sure if it could have been choline, but that is another common deficiency for some people on paleo/primal.


I'd be pretty surprised if someone eating eggs regularly got a choline deficiency.

----------


## Acala

> Not sure if it could have been choline, but that is another common deficiency for some people on paleo/primal.


I can't imagine how any paleo/primal person could have a choline deficiency.  It is abundant in eggs, beef, chicken, and fish.  Sounds more like a problem for vegetarians.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## amy31416

> It is.  
> 
> I tried out some "chickpea flour" yesterday on an eggplant dish I was made.   The picky eater in the family didn't complain and neither did the picky traditionalist.  Turned out pretty good.  Maybe not strict primal but grainfree:   eggplant with chickpea flour simmered in butter, tomato sauce from the garden, peppers from the garden, and a hefty amount provolone and mozzarella.   Still woke up another pound lighter.   Wheat and corn are clearly two poisons that have been keeping me down for decades.


Nice!

Kludge isn't actually doing this "diet" with me, but since I started, he's been losing weight as well--probably because of the changes in the way I shop.

----------


## low preference guy

> Maybe not strict primal but grainfree


for some that's enough to improve the quality and quantity of toilet visits.

----------


## specsaregood

> for some that's enough to improve the quality and quantity of toilet visits.


well I've lost enough weight where I figure I can get back into running again (I was quite athletic before wedded bliss turned me into a fatass).
And I needed some new sandals my 5+ year old birkenstocks are a bit worn.  So I figured I might try some huaraches out.  I got them today and been wearing them at my standing desk and I must say, my feet feel, "free".  There isn't another way to put it, kinda weird and I'm used to working in flipflops or sandals all day.  
We'll see how they do when I go for a stroll tonight.

----------


## steve005

this diet is the dumbest out there, lol!  what primal people ate like that???

try the starch solution if you want to eat what the past warriors of the world ate. and all healthy nations have diets based on starch, wake up idiots!

----------


## Revolution9

> Lost a few more pounds, moved a delivered ton of rocks around in 100heat without feeling the least bit old or tired, was surrounded by chips and breads and all kinds of crap over the holiday week and didn't have an urge to eat any of it -- not one little bit -- feeling lighter and stronger  than i have in years with no changes other than cutting out all those carbs -- which were always my greatest love.    good $#@! this is.   And i still haven't even given up the beer.


Wind sprints will be easy soon. You will be surprised you are not out of breath sooner.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> this diet is the dumbest out there, lol!  what primal people ate like that???
> 
> try the starch solution if you want to eat what the past warriors of the world ate. and all healthy nations have diets based on starch, wake up idiots!


This is BS. Man cannot digest starches. They have to be cooked and converted to sugars and complex carbohydrates. The brain is mostly saturated fats. Starches will not replenish the structure properly. As well prior to the iron age there are very few boiling pots and very little evidence of their continuous consumption till the advent of agriculture. Watch who you call idiots as you dogma is a malformed pile of crap and suggests that you are the one without proper thinking capacities. You are suggesting we spent hours each day winnowing tiny little grass seeds to extract the miniscule amounts of starches in them and spent hours each day boiling and roasting these. Then you go on to act like eating berries, killing an animal and consuming it's flesh and gathering nuts is somehow impossible next to the mutlihour tasking of gathering starches from sources that extraction was limited and complex procedure and cooking them. If we could eat starches we would not have to cook them and have an enzyme or multiple stomachs to assist in their breaking down into substances that would be enough to sustain life. Try going without protein and saturated fats for a month and when you crawl to the keyboard to try to type your experience in remember your glorious words and the nasty comments you had for those who have listened to their bodies.

rev9

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## Chester Copperpot

> this diet is the dumbest out there, lol!  what primal people ate like that???
> 
> try the starch solution if you want to eat what the past warriors of the world ate. and all healthy nations have diets based on starch, wake up idiots!


It seems that alot of warriors ate starches.. be it Roman legionaires, General Washington's troops eating Valley Forge fire cake, or civil war soldiers eating hardtack... Its cheap and easy

But I dont think it was the preferred food vehicle.

Im sure there is no problem eating natural starches but personally I have found that If I do without starches that the fat pounds come off of me effortlessly.. Anybody else who has had stubborn fat areas that theyve never been able to get rid of, i would venture to say the problem lies with insulin and their ingestion of sugars and starches.

Most of our starches today seem to be of little nutritional value like white bread, white rice, white pasta, etc.

----------


## PatriotOne

> this diet is the dumbest out there, lol!  what primal people ate like that???
> 
> try the starch solution if you want to eat what the past warriors of the world ate. and all healthy nations have diets based on starch, wake up idiots!


FYI....we aren't warriors.  

We are a nation of people who sit at desks, behind computors, ride in cars, planes, trains, buses, up and down elevators, use tractors and other heavy equipment to farm our fields, etc., etc., etc.  Most people do not get enough activity in their daily routines to burn off all the carbohydrates that we consume in the standard American diet.  The excess carbohydrates are then stored as fat.  And unless you are an athelete who trains hours and hours a day or a person who has the time to go excercise daily to burn off all the excess carbs....you are going to get fat.  Personally, I would rather eat less carbs than spend my precious few daily hours and weekends with family and friends, than walking on a treadmill to nowhere.

----------


## specsaregood

> try the starch solution if you want to eat what the past warriors of the world ate.


perhaps they wouldn't be so aggressive and angry if they ate more meat.

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## Acala

> It seems that alot of warriors ate starches.. be it Roman legionaires, General Washington's troops eating Valley Forge fire cake, or civil war soldiers eating hardtack... Its cheap and easy
> .


Exactly.  Cheap, easy, and unhealthy.  The perfect food for slaves and feedlot cattle.

----------


## specsaregood

> So I figured I might try some huaraches out.  I got them today and been wearing them at my standing desk and I must say, my feet feel, "free".  There isn't another way to put it, kinda weird and I'm used to working in flipflops or sandals all day.  
> We'll see how they do when I go for a stroll tonight.


So i've gone for 2long walks with these and they really do change your gait.  unexpected parts of my legs are sore and the usual sore spots are fine and dandy.

----------


## Kluge

> So i've gone for 2long walks with these and they really do change your gait.  unexpected parts of my legs are sore and the usual sore spots are fine and dandy.


Really? Aren't they just flat sandals with lots of leather straps?

----------


## specsaregood

> Really? Aren't they just flat sandals with lots of leather straps?


Yes to "flat" sandals.  I didn't get leather, i got some fancier straps, but not a "lot" of them.  pic below:
I usually wear my birkenstocks or flipflops.  I went back and wore them and paid attention to the difference.
1. With the birks, I notice that I naturally lift my toes UP as I step, in order to lift the front off the ground.
2. With the flipflops (crocs).  I end up gripping when I step with my toes around the thong.

With these new huaraches, the sandal is just "there", it stays with my foot without any gripping or toe lifting.  It's kinda tough to explain, but they definitely feel different than the others and the muscles in my legs are a bit sore in different places which indicates that they are doing something different without trying to do so on purpose.

----------


## Kluge

Interesting. It's too rocky for me to wear thin-soled shoes where I normally walk, otherwise I might give them a try. I get blisters pretty easily and those don't look like they'd cause them.

----------


## dannno

This is my sandal of choice, the huaraches look cool but I can't stand having that thing between my toes.



I would wear these sandals everywhere, but I can't wear them to work.

----------


## Acala

Make your own huaraches:

http://www.invisibleshoe.com/how-to-make-huaraches/

I've made several pairs out of leather and one waterproof pair out of vibram "cherry" material and paracord.

Prepare your feet now for the postapocalypse!

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## specsaregood

> Interesting. It's too rocky for me to wear thin-soled shoes where I normally walk, otherwise I might give them a try. I get blisters pretty easily and those don't look like they'd cause them.


yeah, my suburb is paved pretty well.  no blisters so far.  course i spend my of my time wearing them while standing at my desk.

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## BamaAla

Early on in my Primal journey, I tried the minimalist shoes, but I didn't care for them. I have webbed toes, so I had to modify some 5 fingers and they sucked for me. I may try the New Balance options in the future, but for now, I stick with regular ole tennis shoes.

----------


## trey4sports

> Early on in my Primal journey, I tried the minimalist shoes, but I didn't care for them. I have webbed toes, so I had to modify some 5 fingers and they sucked for me. I may try the New Balance options in the future, but for now, I stick with regular ole tennis shoes.



i have a pair of the NB minimus life. They are great. Slightly thicker sole than the VFF but still close enough to the ground to be considered minimal, and they also don't separate each toe so that should help you.

----------


## BamaAla

> i have a pair of the NB minimus life. They are great. Slightly thicker sole than the VFF but still close enough to the ground to be considered minimal, and they also don't separate each toe so that should help you.


You like them? I've been thinking about giving them a try; they look so much better than VFF!

----------


## trey4sports

> You like them? I've been thinking about giving them a try; they look so much better than VFF!



yeah, they are much more stylish. I have these




and be sure to read the review from birthday shoes. It is really in-depth. http://birthdayshoes.com/review-new-...b-minimus-life


also, NB released a new model this year with the 0 drop sole which is slightly closer to the ground. You can get the older model for around $50 or so and the new model for around $80

----------


## specsaregood

> How did your jerky turn out?  Got a good primal recipe to share?  I'm mulling over whether I want to buy a dehydrator and make some myself.


So, since we're swimming in tomatoes this time of year.   I blended up a few of big ones that were on the verge of going bad, added some salt and pepper then threw in a pound of sliced up london broil and let it marinate over night.  Pulled em out and dried them today with.  Turned out real nice with a sweet tomato flavor with the beef and the kid likes it.  I'd say that counts as "primal".    Then I took the tomato marinade and made a kick ass tomato sauce to have over some potato and string beans for dinner, it definitely had the beef flavor with it.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> So, since we're swimming in tomatoes this time of year.   I blended up a few of big ones that were on the verge of going bad, added some salt and pepper then threw in a pound of sliced up london broil and let it marinate over night.  Pulled em out and dried them today with.  Turned out real nice with a sweet tomato flavor with the beef and the kid likes it.  I'd say that counts as "primal".    Then I took the tomato marinade and made a kick ass tomato sauce to have over some potato and string beans for dinner, it definitely had the beef flavor with it.


Potatoes ain't primal.

----------


## specsaregood

> Potatoes ain't primal.


Well I was referring to the jerky anyways.  And some would disagree with your claim. If monkees dig up and eat tubers, no doubt primal man did.

----------


## jj-

> Potatoes ain't primal.


If potatoes aren't primal, coffee definitely isn't. Dogmatism isn't good. The point of wondering about what people in caves ate is just to have a starting point. Science or personal experiments can overrule that.

----------


## specsaregood

> If potatoes aren't primal, coffee definitely isn't. Dogmatism isn't good. The point of wondering about what people in caves ate is just to have a starting point. Science or personal experiments can overrule that.


yeah, I would have thought he would have hit on the string beans since they are legumes.  but since both potatoes and string beans can be eaten raw, I see no reason to think they aren't something that people in caves might have eaten.  Maybe not string beans since you possibly spend more energy eating and digesting them than you get from them.

----------


## trey4sports

> yeah, I would have thought he would have hit on the string beans since they are legumes.  but since both *potatoes* and string beans can be *eaten raw*, I see no reason to think they aren't something that people in caves might have eaten.  Maybe not string beans since you possibly spend more energy eating and digesting them than you get from them.


i thought tubers were slightly toxic raw? 

BTW Mark Sisson has talked about green beans being fairly healthy for a while now. Yes they are legumes but they have no lectin (anti-nutrient) and also DO have some nutrients. So, they aren't exactly primal but i think they're a pretty solid food.

As for potatoes.... i wouldn't touch em. But hey, if you're feelin' good and the majority of what you eat is nutritious and at least semi-primal who gives a flying $#@! if you eat a tater every once in a while? As long as you have a solid primal baseline and you can see how your body responds to the carbs you can increase/decrease based on how it makes you feel versus how good it tastes.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## specsaregood

//

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## dannno

I've been trying to get some pastured pork shipped, I haven't found any locally yet and have had some luck finding some pastured wild boar, but shipping usually ends up being a deal killer.

I made some really bomb primal pulled pork a while back, but it was grain-fed.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## PatriotOne

> So, since we're swimming in tomatoes this time of year.   I blended up a few of big ones that were on the verge of going bad, added some salt and pepper then threw in a pound of sliced up london broil and let it marinate over night.  Pulled em out and dried them today with.  Turned out real nice with a sweet tomato flavor with the beef and the kid likes it.  I'd say that counts as "primal".    Then I took the tomato marinade and made a kick ass tomato sauce to have over some potato and string beans for dinner, it definitely had the beef flavor with it.


Speaking of tomatoes....I had the biggest freakin tomato plant I have ever seen in my life.  It looked like 6 or 8 tomato plants planted together.  I could have fed a third world country with it.  Couple hundred tomato's harvested at least.  I finally dug it up a couple days ago.  It had a hundred or so unripend tomatoes left still on it.

I went off primal 3 weeks ago.  I got crazy busy and just didn't have enough time to stock up on the good foods.  Been eating carbs and have felt like crap and gained 5 or so lbs.  I just stocked up on primal yesterday so back on it starting today.  It was a good reminder though why I need to stay primal.  The way I feel is night and day!

----------


## PatriotOne

> I've been trying to get some pastured pork shipped, I haven't found any locally yet and have had some luck finding some pastured wild boar, but shipping usually ends up being a deal killer.
> 
> I made some really bomb primal pulled pork a while back, but it was grain-fed.


How's the primal eating working out for you?  Notice any good/bad effects vs. your veg diet?

----------


## dannno

> How's the primal eating working out for you?  Notice any good/bad effects vs. your veg diet?


Ya it's about the same, maybe a tick more energy at times and I can control my weight more easily. I could go back to being veg, though.

----------


## opal

question on the Raw diet.. does sashimi qualify or is it 100% plant?

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## mac_hine

My wife and I finally made the decision to go primal. We started last Saturday. I've lost 13lbs and she's lost 10lbs. I feel *amazing!* My energy levels are through the roof. I'm also doing the P90x workout routine. I can't believe how much more fit I feel/look. It's only been one week!

Here's what I made for dinner last night:


Pasture raised pork chop, fried with bacon fat. I made a delicious mushroom sauce using beef stock, garlic, thyme and almond meal.
I cooked the vegies in the oven with a little coconut oil and crushed garlic.
Delicious!

----------


## specsaregood

//

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## LBennett76

> Try eating pasta plain for a while and then tell me you really like it.  Pasta without sauce is about as delicious as mud.  So it is really the sauce you like and, assuming you avoid bad oils and use grass fed meat, most pasta sauce is perfectly fine on a primal diet.  You just need to put it on something other than pasta.  Like spaghetti squash or cauliflower-rice.


Not entirely true. I'm not the biggest fan of spaghettit sauce. I prefer noodles with just a smidgen of butter or a little bit of broth. I've eaten some plain or with just a little salt as well. I LOVE pasta. I'm a super picky eater. Give me noodles, bread, potatoes, cheese, and butter and I'm set for a lifetime.

----------


## BamaAla

> Not entirely true. I'm not the biggest fan of spaghettit sauce. I prefer noodles with just a smidgen of butter or a little bit of broth. I've eaten some plain or with just a little salt as well. I LOVE pasta. I'm a super picky eater. Give me noodles, bread, potatoes, cheese, and butter and I'm set for a lifetime.


Then eat those things. If you are healthy and have a great bod, there is no need for you to change the way you eat.

----------


## WilliamShrugged

I have been on the PD for more than 2 months and love it. I just can't wait to join a gym (other goals more important) then i'll see how the results really work.

----------


## mac_hine

> I know that feeling.   I suggest keeping a weekly log to record your weight loss.  I didn't start until a couple months in and the geek in me wishes i had started earlier.


I weigh myself every morning. Lost another pound over night. That's 14lbs in 9 days.

----------


## PatriotOne

> and I can control my weight more easily.


That's a pretty good reason to stay primal right there.  I like easy!

----------


## PatriotOne

> 


Sure wish I had thawed out a steak for dinner.  Day 8 for getting back on primal.  Thought I had managed to avoid carb withdrawals since they usually start around day 5 or 6 with me when I go off of them but they are here today on day 8!  ME WANT PASTA NOW!  Hopefully the cravings will be short lived since I was only off of it for 3 weeks.

----------


## PatriotOne

> Not entirely true. I'm not the biggest fan of spaghettit sauce. I prefer noodles with just a smidgen of butter or a little bit of broth. I've eaten some plain or with just a little salt as well. I LOVE pasta. I'm a super picky eater. Give me noodles, bread, potatoes, cheese, and butter and I'm set for a lifetime.


Really?  Ya just had to post the words noodles, bread, potatoes in a primal thread when I'm trying to withdraw from them right now ?  That's just cruel .

----------


## TCE

> Really?  Ya just had to post the words noodles, bread, potatoes in a primal thread when I'm trying to withdraw from them right now ?  That's just cruel .


In truth, I have been without for a few months now, and I have found that dumping that stuff for more nutritionally-laden foods isn't bad at all. I had headaches and muscle weakness for a few days, but after that, everything's been good. Spaghetti squash is now one of my favorite vegetables. One can make carbonara, spaghetti, spaghetti bolognese, and other dishes with it. Bread isn't needed and I have used Romaine lettuce leaves instead. Admittedly baby lettuce, spinach, kale, etc. but hey, better than bread. Bread is essentially a vehicle. Eating bread by itself isn't that great. Same deal with pasta. Potatoes can be swapped out for sweet potato fries pretty easily. It's all about what you season them with, anyway. Plain potatoes aren't that great. 

Having bacon in the morning or eggs with some sliced avocado tossed in is great and I feel full for a lot longer than I ever did with toast or waffles.

----------


## PatriotOne

> In truth, I have been without for a few months now, and I have found that dumping that stuff for more nutritionally-laden foods isn't bad at all. I had headaches and muscle weakness for a few days, but after that, everything's been good. Spaghetti squash is now one of my favorite vegetables. One can make carbonara, spaghetti, spaghetti bolognese, and other dishes with it. Bread isn't needed and I have used Romaine lettuce leaves instead. Admittedly baby lettuce, spinach, kale, etc. but hey, better than bread. Bread is essentially a vehicle. Eating bread by itself isn't that great. Same deal with pasta. Potatoes can be swapped out for sweet potato fries pretty easily. It's all about what you season them with, anyway. Plain potatoes aren't that great. 
> 
> Having bacon in the morning or eggs with some sliced avocado tossed in is great and I feel full for a lot longer than I ever did with toast or waffles.


Preaching to the choir .  I've been primal for about 6 months now.  Just got crazy busy and went off of it for about 3 weeks so having to go through some withdrawals.  Shouldn't be a problem because I know I will feel so much better in a few days.  I've felt really crappy eating carbs those 3 weeks.

----------


## TCE

> Preaching to the choir .  I've been primal for about 6 months now.  Just got crazy busy and went off of it for about 3 weeks so having to go through some withdrawals.  Shouldn't be a problem because I know I will feel so much better in a few days.  I've felt really crappy eating carbs those 3 weeks.


Went back through the thread and saw that. Good luck getting back on the wagon.

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## specsaregood

//

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## TCE

Very nice.

----------


## Acala

> Then eat those things. If you are healthy and have a great bod, there is no need for you to change the way you eat.


Here's the risk: the average young person can eat just about anything and seem to be fine.  But over the years the chronic inflammation and insulin roller coaster take their toll.  The youth of 25 that can eat pasta, bread, and sugar with no noticeable problem becomes the middle aged person carrying an extra 50 pounds, showing signs of insulin resistance, arthritis, high blood pressure, arterial plaques, and other effects of chronic inflammation and glucose overload.  And then the decline accelerates into full-blown diabetes, cardio-vascular disease, cancer, and dementia.  The unhealthy eating habits learned as a youth when they don't seem to matter become firmly seated habits such that they are hard to change when the ill effects become apparent.

I wish I had known about primal living when I was 12.  My quality of life would have been significantly improved.  But I am mostly just grateful to have discovered it now.

----------


## Dick Chaney

Grew on fast food until age 18 -- proudly paleo for 2 years, it's a difficult transition but worth it physically and mentally long term.

----------


## pochy1776

So? Mainstream science is all wrong despite several healthy people eating grains and rice. Maybe a vegetarian/vegan diet can be good for SOME people. I am tired of all the paleo people saying EVERYONE is genetically paleo.

----------


## PatriotOne

> So? Mainstream science is all wrong despite several healthy people eating grains and rice. Maybe a vegetarian/vegan diet can be good for SOME people. I am tired of all the paleo people saying EVERYONE is genetically paleo.


FYI....this is the internet.  You didn't even have to click on this thread if your tired of hearing about paleo.  Go eat a bushel of wheat for dinner for all I care.

----------


## american.swan

> It's funny, 2 of my biggest interests lately have been RP/Liberty and Primal eating/lifestyle. Looks like Tom Woods is bringing the 2 together as well!http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/going-primal/The diet is basically Paleo style, eliminating grains and processed carbs, and embracing vegetables and high fat/protein animal foods. I just finished reading the book, and the science is very solid. It is based in evolutionary biology and working with your hormones, not against them. Also, the takes on exercise and lifestyle are great and scientifically sound. Any other Primal folks here on RPF?


 Bunch of junk if you ask me. Meat is full of artery blocking fats. The fda recommend vegetarian diet is spot on if you ask me but you won't ask so I'll stop here.

----------


## specsaregood

> Bunch of junk if you ask me. Meat is full of artery blocking fats. The fda recommend vegetarian diet is spot on if you ask me but you won't ask so I'll stop here.


The same fda that won't let a walnut distributer mention the numerous studies backing their health benefits; but lets frito-lay advertise doritos as "heart healthy", yeah there is a source I want to trust, lol.

----------


## amy31416

> The same fda that won't let a walnut distributer mention the numerous studies backing their health benefits; but lets frito-lay advertise doritos as "heart healthy", yeah there is a source I want to trust, lol.


Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Doritos are "heart healthy" now?

Didn't the "Cheerios" people get $#@! for claiming to be "heart healthy?"

----------


## Danke

> Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Doritos are "heart healthy" now?


If consumed with beer, yes.

----------


## Acala

> So? Mainstream science is all wrong despite several healthy people eating grains and rice. Maybe a vegetarian/vegan diet can be good for SOME people. I am tired of all the paleo people saying EVERYONE is genetically paleo.


The problem I have with the idea that different diets are good for different people is that we are all the same species and virtually identical in every important way.  How silly would it be to say "a vegan diet is good for some lions and a meat-based diet is good for some cows".  It doesn't work that way.  All humans have essentially the same physiological system.  Different people might have developed different preferences, but that doesn't change their physiology.  Bears will eat any garbage they can find in your trash can, but that doesn't mean it is healthy for them.         

And unless you can explain how humans evolved to eat foods that essentially didn't exist when they were evolving, I have to conclude that humans evolved to eat a pre-agricultural diet.  Now it is possible that humans experienced some genetic changes, and more likley some epigenetic changes, to help them adapt to the post-ag diet.  But that is, at best, a recent (10,000 years is recent in the scale of evolution) attempt to adjust to non-optimal changes in diet.  Why stress your body in that way?

----------


## low preference guy

> And unless you can explain how humans evolved to eat foods that essentially didn't exist when they were evolvin...


i think this is foolish reasoning. humans can only develop based on what their potential allows. the environment is one factor, but the other factor is the potential of matter and minerals humans are made of. it's conceivable that humans do best on a diet that they did not have during most of their existence, due to the factor of potential of elements rather than environment. of course, the way to test what is best is to do actual experiments with humans living today, based on proven principles, or highly likely ones, about how the body works. speculating about what humans ate during most of their history is just good to generate ideas to test, but no more than that.

----------


## Acala

> i think this is foolish reasoning. humans can only develop based on what their potential allows. the environment is one factor, but the other factor is the potential of matter and minerals humans are made of. it's conceivable that humans do best on a diet that they did not have during most of their existence, due to the factor of potential of elements rather than environment. of course, the way to test what is best is to do actual experiments with humans living today, based on proven principles, or highly likely ones, about how the body works. speculating about what humans ate during most of their history is just good to generate ideas to test, but no more than that.


Unlikely that humans would develop the special enzymes and such needed to make use of foods they were not exposed to.  For example, grains typically contain phytates.  Phytates interfere with the absorption of nutrients from grain.  Rodents have an enzyme called phytase that breaks down phytates so that rodents can derive more nutrients from eating grain.  Humans don't have the ability to make phytase.  Can you think of any reason why humans would evolve the ability to produce phytase in an environment where they don't eat anything with phytates in it?  Me either.

But I don't disagree with your last point.  If you are trying to figure out what a human should eat, you should start with the natural diet, which would be the pre-ag diet.  Then maybe you can improve it by experimentation.  So far, the evidence is pretty clear that we have not improved it.

----------


## specsaregood

//

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## helmuth_hubener

Where are you getting all the fat from, specs?

----------


## specsaregood

> Where are you getting all the fat from, specs?


Fruits: avocado, olives, and olive oil.
Nuts: raw macadamias, english walnuts and almond.
edit: oh yeah, just a little coconut oil as well -- thanks dannno.

We're having lean chicken for dinner, so I filled up on fats early in the day.

----------


## dannno

> Where are you getting all the fat from, specs?


I think it was some sort of walnut and coconut oil biscuit or something.

----------


## steph3n

> try some spaghetti squash in place of noodles. Delicious.


Or the yam noodles Shirataki, very high in fiber.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> Or the yam noodles Shirataki, very high in fiber.


I'll have to give those a look.




> try some spaghetti squash in place of noodles. Delicious.


First time I had spaghetti squash, the gf put too much stevia in the sauce, and it threw off the taste. I initially thought it was the squash, but found out when we made it a second time that she had put like a teaspoon of stevia in the recipe.

Needless to say, the second time around was much, much better.

----------


## opal

my mom started trying to get us to eat spaghetti squash when we were teenagers .. I'm in my 5th decade now and ya know... I've tried it with tomato sauce.. garlic butter.. brown gravy, lemon ginger sauces.. and by itself.  Nothing makes it taste good enough to me to want to eat it again.

----------


## amy31416

> Or the yam noodles Shirataki, very high in fiber.


I've really wanted to try these, but haven't found them in a store yet--I hear they smell "fishy." What's your experience?

----------


## dannno

> she had put like a teaspoon of stevia in the recipe.


Hahahahha, wow...

----------


## dannno

> I've really wanted to try these, but haven't found them in a store yet--I hear they smell "fishy." What's your experience?


Was that from my post or somewhere else?

I got the NoOodles that are yam based.

Taking away the fishy smell is pretty easy, you just have to rinse them thoroughly for a couple minutes. But then they don't taste very good unless you fry them up a little to dry them out, then cook them for at least a few minutes in the sauce that they are going to be served with. They don't soak up flavor as easily as regular noodles and don't taste as good as regular noodles by themselves.

----------


## trey4sports

so many facepalms in the last couple pages....

----------


## amy31416

> Was that from my post or somewhere else?
> 
> I got the NoOodles that are yam based.
> 
> Taking away the fishy smell is pretty easy, you just have to rinse them thoroughly for a couple minutes. But then they don't taste very good unless you fry them up a little to dry them out, then cook them for at least a few minutes in the sauce that they are going to be served with. They don't soak up flavor as easily as regular noodles and don't taste as good as regular noodles by themselves.


It's from Amazon, which is the only place I've found them out here. Many reviews are not too complimentary, so I hesitate to order a whole case of them. I'm too cheap to order something I don't know if I'll like. Plus, I make a low/no-carb "noodle" using pulverized shrimp for Chinese food--obviously that's crappy with certain types of food.

----------


## steph3n

> Was that from my post or somewhere else?
> 
> I got the NoOodles that are yam based.
> 
> Taking away the fishy smell is pretty easy, you just have to rinse them thoroughly for a couple minutes. But then they don't taste very good unless you fry them up a little to dry them out, then cook them for at least a few minutes in the sauce that they are going to be served with. They don't soak up flavor as easily as regular noodles and don't taste as good as regular noodles by themselves.


Your findings are about the same as mine, I I put fish sauce on them the first time I had then, making them a bit in a vietnamese style, so I guess I didn't realize the flavor may have been partially the noodles. I haven't used them extensively but by the cold storage kind at the local market. they have a 'tofu' variant as well but they look liked total MUSH!

----------


## steph3n

> It's from Amazon, which is the only place I've found them out here. Many reviews are not too complimentary, so I hesitate to order a whole case of them. I'm too cheap to order something I don't know if I'll like. Plus, I make a low/no-carb "noodle" using pulverized shrimp for Chinese food--obviously that's crappy with certain types of food.


Do any of your local places have a tofu section in produce? This is where I find it...they have tofu, and yam types, I go for the yam, the tofu looks like macaroni that has been cooked for 10 years.

----------


## amy31416

> Do any of your local places have a tofu section in produce? This is where I find it...they have tofu, and yam types, I go for the yam, the tofu looks like macaroni that has been cooked for 10 years.


No. The supermarkets here are total crap. The most "exotic" thing I've found here is egg roll wrappers--and I can make that myself.

----------


## steph3n

It is getting cool enough now, I could probably send you a pack along with a couple other treats in a USPS flat rate box priority mail, if that would interest you 

no cost, just to try it and see if you like, and nothing expected, I don't sell it or anything, want nothing in return.
I enjoy people trying new things and new experiences.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> Hahahahha, wow...


Haha, yeah, she's an amazing cook, but before going primal, we'd use a teaspoon of raw sugar in tomato sauces to balance the acidity, so she just substituted the stevia for it. She never measures the amount of ingredients she uses, but I deduced that she used about a teaspoon of stevia.

Lesson learned, and I ate the original meal, anyway - it was edible without the squash, it just tasted like sweet sauce and meatballs.

----------


## steph3n

> Haha, yeah, she's an amazing cook, but before going primal, we'd use a teaspoon of raw sugar in tomato sauces to balance the acidity, so she just substituted the stevia for it. She never measures the amount of ingredients she uses, but I deduced that she used about a teaspoon of stevia.
> 
> Lesson learned, and I ate the original meal, anyway - it was edible without the squash, it just tasted like sweet sauce and meatballs.


You can also use a couple kernels of fresh sweet corn to balance out the sauce, works really well!

----------


## BamaAla

Just stick with putting the sugar in there; that isn't a lot of sugar and it is spread out over the whole sauce.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> Just stick with putting the sugar in there; that isn't a lot of sugar and it is spread out over the whole sauce.


Doing it more as a matter of principle, since the gf is proportionately more overweight than I am, and she has a craving for carbs.

On a side note, my energy levels have dropped, and my gym performance has declined. Started adding salt to my vegetables, since I realized I was getting an insignificant amount of sodium in my diet. Makes the vegetables much easier to eat lol.

----------


## BamaAla

> Doing it more as a matter of principle, since the gf is proportionately more overweight than I am, and she has a craving for carbs.
> 
> On a side note, my energy levels have dropped, and my gym performance has declined. Started adding salt to my vegetables, since I realized I was getting an insignificant amount of sodium in my diet. Makes the vegetables much easier to eat lol.


I see. I'm sorry if I missed it, but how long have you been Primal?

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> I see. I'm sorry if I missed it, but how long have you been Primal?


I've been mostly primal for three months, and more or less completely for two. Still have the occasional half cup of oatmeal with butter/protein/cinnamon, but my daily carb intake very rarely exceeds 50g a day. I've lost a little over 40 pounds in these 3 months, but the strength loss is recent - I had actually gained strength in the first couple months. The strength gain was surprising, since I was consistently lifting heavily before switching the diet.

----------


## BamaAla

> I've been mostly primal for three months, and more or less completely for two. Still have the occasional half cup of oatmeal with butter/protein/cinnamon, but my daily carb intake very rarely exceeds 50g a day. I've lost a little over 40 pounds in these 3 months, but the strength loss is recent - I had actually gained strength in the first couple months. The strength gain was surprising, since I was consistently lifting heavily before switching the diet.


I hate to hear that. I didn't really feel any stronger or weaker in the beginning, but I did lose about a pound of lean mass from when I began until I started taking my resistance training more seriously. Bear in mind though, I had lost about 10% of my body fat and about 30 pounds in that time. Since then, I've lost another 10% body fat and gained a little over 2.5 kilograms of lean mass and I'm due for another dexa scan soon.

I would have said that you were well past the stage of lethargy and seat of the pants strength loss. Have you checked out MDAs Primal Blue Print for athletes subforum? They have some good stuff over there for folks who are into powerlifting or bodybuilding; that might be able to steer you if you haven't checked it out yet.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> I hate to hear that. I didn't really feel any stronger or weaker in the beginning, but I did lose about a pound of lean mass from when I began until I started taking my resistance training more seriously. Bear in mind though, I had lost about 10% of my body fat and about 30 pounds in that time. Since then, I've lost another 10% body fat and gained a little over 2.5 kilograms of lean mass and I'm due for another dexa scan soon.
> 
> I would have said that you were well past the stage of lethargy and seat of the pants strength loss. Have you checked out MDAs Primal Blue Print for athletes subforum? They have some good stuff over there for folks who are into powerlifting or bodybuilding; that might be able to steer you if you haven't checked it out yet.


That's some pretty sweet progress!

I haven't checked that forum. Appreciate the heads up, I'll give it a look-see and try to find an answer. I suspect it'll consist of eating more starchy vegetables and grabbing ZMA.

----------


## specsaregood

> You can also use a couple kernels of fresh sweet corn to balance out the sauce, works really well!


Or just throw a couple baby carrots or 1 chopped carrot in there.  Then fish them out when you are all done.  Works as well and is primal .

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## TCE

> my mom started trying to get us to eat spaghetti squash when we were teenagers .. I'm in my 5th decade now and ya know... I've tried it with tomato sauce.. garlic butter.. brown gravy, lemon ginger sauces.. and by itself.  Nothing makes it taste good enough to me to want to eat it again.


That's unfortunate. I used to eat pasta all the time and spaghetti squash does it for me. Have you tried making it into a bolognese with a bit of coconut milk and a pound of meat along with some veggies?

----------


## opal

nope.. vegetarian since '94

----------


## TCE

> nope.. vegetarian since '94


Gotcha. In that case, I've got nothing. I guess it's a love or hate food. If you like pasta, there's no point in purposely dumping it for something you don't like, primal/carb issues aside.

To everyone: What is a good way to add more vegetables in? I don't actually like vegetables, and I've been forcing myself to eat them because I know I'd be missing out on an untold number of benefits otherwise. I have tried adding Romaine lettuce to a variety of things to make many dishes a "salad." Such as Taco Salad. I toss in vegetables whenever I can when cooking as well, but perhaps you guys have some tricks to sneak them in? Maybe ways to make them taste better? Sweet Potato fries are awesome, by the way, but I know that is a pretty heavy starch food.

----------


## BamaAla

> Gotcha. In that case, I've got nothing. I guess it's a love or hate food. If you like pasta, there's no point in purposely dumping it for something you don't like, primal/carb issues aside.
> 
> To everyone: What is a good way to add more vegetables in? I don't actually like vegetables, and I've been forcing myself to eat them because I know I'd be missing out on an untold number of benefits otherwise. I have tried adding Romaine lettuce to a variety of things to make many dishes a "salad." Such as Taco Salad. I toss in vegetables whenever I can when cooking as well, but perhaps you guys have some tricks to sneak them in? Maybe ways to make them taste better? Sweet Potato fries are awesome, by the way, but I know that is a pretty heavy starch food.


I never really hated veggies like many do, but I was never a fan. I just forced myself to eat them and tried just about every recipe on Marks Daily Apple. After a few months, I found that I enjoyed most of them; over a year after starting, I really look forward to most veggies. It was a little bit of an acquired thing for me. By the same token, my girlfriend brought in some cherries a few weeks ago and I could barely eat more than 2 because they are so sweet and 85% chocolate has started to become too sweet to me as well. I hate to say it, but it may just come with time. 

With that said, early on, I found that greens like kale or collard greens were (surprisingly) more palatable than other vegetables; maybe try to work some of them into your meals. Also, try dipping your veggies in a homemade ranch or blue cheese dressing.

----------


## opal

and for hot veggies.. BUTTER
butter makes everything better

hubby prefers bacon grease and garlic on some veggies - you might try steaming then tossing in that

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## Acala

> I never really hated veggies like many do, but I was never a fan. I just forced myself to eat them and tried just about every recipe on Marks Daily Apple. After a few months, I found that I enjoyed most of them; over a year after starting, I really look forward to most veggies. It was a little bit of an acquired thing for me. By the same token, my girlfriend brought in some cherries a few weeks ago and I could barely eat more than 2 because they are so sweet and 85% chocolate has started to become too sweet to me as well. I hate to say it, but it may just come with time. 
> 
> With that said, early on, I found that greens like kale or collard greens were (surprisingly) more palatable than other vegetables; maybe try to work some of them into your meals. Also, try dipping your veggies in a homemade ranch or blue cheese dressing.


I concur.  I think the primal diet changes your palate.  I never liked salad much, but when I went primal I forced myself.  I tried to make them as diverse as possible, challenging myself to see how many different kinds of vegetables I could  incorporate.  I added things I never ate before like seaweed, fennel, and broccoli sprouts.  Now, I LOVE my salad.  I gobble it down.  I think your body learns where the nutrients are and trains your palate to like the nutritious food.

I also scramble a bunch of vegetables into my eggs each morning - onions, peppers, garlic, chard, kale, whatever I have on hand.  The leafy vegetables lose most of their bulk in the cooking so you can add more than you think without turning your eggs into a salad with an egg coating.  

And I cook a big pot of beef stew every week to which I add a variety of vegetables.

Consider joining a CSA group.  It forces you to find ways to incorporate the flow of vegetables into your diet.  And after awhile it will be easy.

----------


## jj-

> *I've been forcing myself to eat them because I know I'd be missing out on an untold number of benefits* otherwise. I have tried adding Romaine lettuce to a variety of things to make many dishes a "salad." Such as Taco Salad. I toss in vegetables whenever I can when cooking as well, but perhaps you guys have some tricks to sneak them in? Maybe ways to make them taste better? Sweet Potato fries are awesome, by the way, but I know that is a pretty heavy starch food.


What benefits? What vitamin or mineral do you get from vegetables that you can't get from fruits, meats, or eggs? I like the taste of fruit better and tend to drink one quart of OJ per day, and some fruits. I don't think you'll miss out anything. I should mention though that it doesn't seem a good idea to mix PUFAs and fructose. I can only consume practically unlimited amounts of fruit or fruit juice when I don't consume any significant source of polyunsaturated fats.

----------


## TCE

> I never really hated veggies like many do, but I was never a fan. I just forced myself to eat them and tried just about every recipe on Marks Daily Apple. After a few months, I found that I enjoyed most of them; over a year after starting, I really look forward to most veggies. It was a little bit of an acquired thing for me. By the same token, my girlfriend brought in some cherries a few weeks ago and I could barely eat more than 2 because they are so sweet and 85% chocolate has started to become too sweet to me as well. I hate to say it, but it may just come with time. 
> 
> With that said, early on, I found that greens like kale or collard greens were (surprisingly) more palatable than other vegetables; maybe try to work some of them into your meals. Also, try dipping your veggies in a homemade ranch or blue cheese dressing.


I will be going back over the MDA recipe list. I can concur with some of your theory, because back when I started primal, I didn't even like romaine lettuce, but since then, it has really grown on me. I did try kale and that one might take some time to get used to. Collard greens I will definitely try this coming week.




> Start with some good greens, romaine? you can do better than that. go get some arugula or fresh spinach and try that for making things into a "salad" for a while. both are going to be more exciting and healthier than romaine. of course making a soup or stew is always the easiest way to sneak in more veggies, you can throw carrots or celery into most of those pretty darn easy.
> 
> Last week I made some meatballs that were stupendous. I mixed up a 1lb of grassfed beef along with 1 egg, 2 cups of chopped fresh spinach, a chopped handful of dried tomatos and a fair amount of parsley. btw: parsley is not just a plate decoration, it goes well chopped up and added on top of lots of stuff, especially anything with tomato. And its super-duper healthy: http://health.learninginfo.org/parsley.htm I like the curly stuff, the wife likes the flat version but both are good addons to many meals.
> 
> Yeah as opal said, butter and bacon grease certainly doesn't hurt vegetables -- I'd add that olive oil doesnt' hurt them either.


For me, romaine lettuce was a big step, but I am ready to upgrade. That is pretty much what I've been doing and I continue to up the veggie content that I "sneak" in week after week. It really bulks up dishes. On the bacon fat front, how does one accumulate and store it? Is it simply a matter of cooking bacon in an oven and taking all of the remaining grease on the cooking sheet and transferring it to a cup in the refrigerator? 




> I concur. I think the primal diet changes your palate. I never liked salad much, but when I went primal I forced myself. I tried to make them as diverse as possible, challenging myself to see how many different kinds of vegetables I could incorporate. I added things I never ate before like seaweed, fennel, and broccoli sprouts. Now, I LOVE my salad. I gobble it down. I think your body learns where the nutrients are and trains your palate to like the nutritious food.
> 
> I also scramble a bunch of vegetables into my eggs each morning - onions, peppers, garlic, chard, kale, whatever I have on hand. The leafy vegetables lose most of their bulk in the cooking so you can add more than you think without turning your eggs into a salad with an egg coating.
> 
> And I cook a big pot of beef stew every week to which I add a variety of vegetables.
> 
> Consider joining a CSA group. It forces you to find ways to incorporate the flow of vegetables into your diet. And after awhile it will be easy.


This is definitely something I am going to start doing more. Eggs seem ripe for becoming a vehicle for vegetables. Thank you for the tip. Would you mind sharing what ingredients you use in a beef stew and how to prepare it? IE: Do you use ground meat, beef chuck, etc? And in what order is everything added to the pot? 




> What benefits? What vitamin or mineral do you get from vegetables that you can't get from fruits, meats, or eggs? I like the taste of fruit better and tend to drink one quart of OJ per day, and some fruits. I don't think you'll miss out anything. I should mention though that it doesn't seem a good idea to mix PUFAs and fructose. I can only consume practically unlimited amounts of fruit or fruit juice when I don't consume any significant source of polyunsaturated fats.


My reasoning comes from this. Nutritionists all across the landscape disagree on pretty much everything. If there is a diet out there, one can easily find a group of nutritionists who believe that diet is the best in the world. However, I would argue that one aspect that brings them all together is their insistence that vegetables are a must. The more the merrier. Is it possible vegetables aren't as important as they are made out to be? Sure.

----------


## pochy1776

Carbs dont make you fat

eating too much fat makes you fat

Carbs make you REALLY ghungry, therefore you eat fat. Fat makes you full.

For some, eating a moderate amount of Fat is good. For others, not so damn much. The paleo Diet thinks ALL humans are eligible and genetically capable of this diet. This is simply not true. Everybody's body is different. Asians tend to have a larger carb tolerance while whites have less. 
So, figure out what your diet is. Talk to a Nutritionist or your friendly neighborhood Family Doctor.

----------


## BamaAla

> I will be going back over the MDA recipe list. I can concur with some of your theory, because back when I started primal, I didn't even like romaine lettuce, but since then, it has really grown on me. I did try kale and that one might take some time to get used to. Collard greens I will definitely try this coming week.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> On the bacon fat front, how does one accumulate and store it? Is it simply a matter of cooking bacon in an oven and taking all of the remaining grease on the cooking sheet and transferring it to a cup in the refrigerator? 
> 
> This is definitely something I am going to start doing more. Eggs seem ripe for becoming a vehicle for vegetables. Thank you for the tip. Would you mind sharing what ingredients you use in a beef stew and how to prepare it? IE: Do you use ground meat, beef chuck, etc? And in what order is everything added to the pot?
> 
> *Snip*


I hope you find a way!

For the bacon grease: let it cool for a little bit and strain it into a mason jar or whatever else you might want to put it in. Some folks claim you have to put it in the fridge, but I never have and I'm still here. Best of luck!

----------


## specsaregood

> For me, romaine lettuce was a big step, but I am ready to upgrade. That is pretty much what I've been doing and I continue to up the veggie content that I "sneak" in week after week. It really bulks up dishes. On the bacon fat front, how does one accumulate and store it? Is it simply a matter of cooking bacon in an oven and taking all of the remaining grease on the cooking sheet and transferring it to a cup in the refrigerator?


Well I stand by my recommendations:  I'd start with some baby spinach salads with what ever else you want to add to it,  then arugula (has a nice nutty flavor), and start adding in some parsley randomly with food right before serving.     When you get ready to start trying to cook some greens, they go well with pork.  eg: tonight I had mustard greens with pork sausage.   i like canadian bacon and will often eat it with kale.   rapini is a real easy one to cook and goes well with sausage.

I'll just pour the grease out of the pan I cook the bacon in on the stove, never baked it.   Or I'll just cook the greens in the same pan immediately after.

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## Acala

> Would you mind sharing what ingredients you use in a beef stew and how to prepare it? IE: Do you use ground meat, beef chuck, etc? And in what order is everything added to the pot?


I typically use ground beef in my stew.  Grass fed/finished, of course.  I use a deep skillet, put in a generous amount of coconut oil, chop up onions and garlic and get them cooking.  Once the onions have softened, I throw in the beef and keep turning it until it is browned.  I put in some oregano and salt.  Maybe some turmeric.  Maybe some masala mix.  The list of vegetables that go in depends on what I got from the CSA and what I have on hand.  Usually I throw in some dried seaweed (wakame).  Almost always a few chopped tomatoes.  Usually some kind of squash.  Usually some chard.  Usually some kale.  Usually some kind of mushroom ($#@!ake being my favorite).  Usually some carrots.  Usually some celery.  Maybe some beets.  Some water.  Maybe some chiles.  Cover it and let it simmer for several hours, overnight if possible.  It is a pretty loose process.  I tend to put in tougher vegetables (like $#@!akes and squash) before softer things (like tomatoes).  Other than that, not many rules.  Sometimes it is better than other times, but it is almost always really good.  And healthy!

----------


## Acala

> Carbs dont make you fat.  Eeating too much fat makes you fat


Carbs are converted to glucose, which floods your bloodstream.  Your body has a very narrow range of blood glucose level it can tolerate so when glucose spikes in the blood (as with the consumption of any significant amount of carbohydrates) your body responds with an emergency dump of insulin.  Insulin triggers insulin-sensitive tissues throughout the body to pull glucose out of the blood stream and store it as fat.  Unless you have previously depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles and liver through vigorous exercise, that excess glucose WILL be stored as fat.  There is nothing else your body can do with it.  It MUST get it out of the blood stream NOW.  

This cycle of glucose spike > insulin spike > fat storage > glucose depletion > cortisol spike is perhaps the single most important mechanism for the development of chronic disease in the western world.  Chronic inflammation, insulin insensitivity and diabetes, obesity, etc.  The list is really endless.

Now, did you have a particular mechanism in mind for how eating fat makes you fat?      





> Carbs make you REALLY ghungry,


You are right about that.  In fact at least some carbs turn off cellular receptors for one of the hormones that tells your body you don't need to eat anymore.    





> For some, eating a moderate amount of Fat is good. For others, not so damn much. The paleo Diet thinks ALL humans are eligible and genetically capable of this diet. This is simply not true. Everybody's body is different. So, figure out what your diet is.


Actually, everybody isn't different.  At least not very much.  We are the same species.  Our biochemistry and the structure of our digestive systems are virtually identical.  We evolved eating much of the same food.  And NONE of us evolved eating any significant amount of grain or legumes.  So where exactly would the ability to thrive on those foods have come from? 




> Talk to a Nutritionist or your friendly neighborhood Family Doctor.


Hahahahaha!  This is some of the worst advice I can think of.

----------


## low preference guy

> Unless you have previously depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles and liver through vigorous exercise, *that excess glucose WILL be stored as fat*.  There is nothing else your body can do with it.  It MUST get it out of the blood stream NOW.


pure $#@!ing idiocy. i have been losing weight and fat eating more than 400 grams of sugar per day, without exercise, as long as i avoid the foods that slow metabolism (vegetable oils, grains, too much liver) and consume those that accelerate it (coffee, chocolate, coconut oil, etc.).

----------


## Acala

> pure $#@!ing idiocy. i have been losing weight and fat eating more than 400 grams of sugar per day, without exercise, as long as i avoid the foods that slow metabolism (vegetable oils, grains, too much liver) and consume those that accelerate it (coffee, chocolate, coconut oil, etc.).


So you are saying that your blood glucose levels can spike and no insulin spike results?  If so, you have type I diabetes.  

Or are you saying insulin does not cause excess glucose to be removed from your bloodstream and stored as fat?  If so, you have type II diabetes.

Or are you saying that your diet does not cause your blood glucose levels to exceed healthy limits?  If so, then your response shows that you did not carefully read what I wrote. 

The fact that you are losing weight does not mean much.  There are many ways to lose weight.  Not all are healthy.

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## low preference guy

can't you read?




> Unless you have previously depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles and liver through vigorous exercise, that excess glucose WILL be stored as fat.


I don't exercise at the moment, so this part isn't satisfied:




> Unless you have previously depleted the glycogen stores in your muscles and liver through vigorous exercise


so according to you, my "excess" glucose should be stored as fat




> that excess glucose WILL be stored as fat


the opposite has been happening, as in fat has been diminishing. as long as your thyroid is working well and you don't eat crap like vegetable oils and grains, consumption of sugar will likely be beneficial and not fattening.

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## Acala

> can't you read?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't exercise at the moment, so this part isn't satisfied:
> 
> 
> 
> so according to you, my "excess" glucose should be stored as fat
> ...


I said "excess" glucose.  Did you miss that?  Or did you not understand the meaning?  Let me try again.

The human body needs to keep its blood glucose levels in a narrow range.  If your blood glucose level exceeds that range (EXCESS glucose, see?) your body will act to reduce that glucose by releasing insulin, which causes the glucose to be sequestered in tissue.  If that process does not happen, you have diabetes and the excess blood glucose will kill you.  

Note carefully what I did NOT say.  I did not say that YOU have excess glucose in your bloodstream.  I did not say that any amount of any kind of carbohydrate will cause excess glucose or an insulin spike.  I simply explained the well-document fact that IF a person has excess glucose in their bloodstream, their body WILL secrete insulin to remove it and it will be stored - unless they have a very serious disease.  

The relationship between diet and blood glucose levels is complex, depending on the kind of carbs eaten, how much, what with, the state of muscle glycogen, etc.  Therefore, I would not make any general statements about the relationship between what someone is eating and their insulin levels.  But when I say that in a person who does not have diabetes that EXCESS glucose will trigger an insuling response and the excess glucose will be stored as fat, I don't believe that is even controversial.  If you have some authority for the position that this process does NOT happen in non-diabetics, please enlighten me.

----------


## Acala

> pure $#@!ing idiocy. i have been losing weight and fat eating more than 400 grams of sugar per day, without exercise, as long as i avoid the foods that slow metabolism (vegetable oils, grains, too much liver) and consume those that accelerate it (coffee, chocolate, coconut oil, etc.).


There is much more to health than body weight.  When I started eating primal I was not at all interested in my weight.  I thought I was fine.  I just wanted to eat a healthy diet.  As it turned out, I was carrying thirty pounds of fat I didn't need, and was glad to be rid of it, but that was never my goal.  

I am much more concerned about chronic inflammation than body fat levels.  I know some very lean people with serious chronic inflammation problems.  Obesity tends to make it worse, but is certainly not a requirement.

When people call Primal a low-carb diet I tend to say "no, it's a normal carb/ low inflammation diet."  In contrast to the SAD, which is ultra-high carb and very inflammatory.

----------


## low preference guy

> II simply explained the well-document fact that IF a person has excess glucose *in their bloodstream*


i didn't see the "in the bloodstream" part. i got the impression that you have some sort of number that one can't go beyond. your statement is true but useless, as it doesn't say whether 10, 100, or 200 grams of glucose per day is excess. so it's not a basis for a good recommendation for glucose intake.

----------


## low preference guy

> When people call Primal a low-carb diet I tend to say "no, it's a normal carb/ low inflammation diet."  In contrast to the SAD, which is ultra-high carb and very inflammatory.


yeah, but the reason the standard diet is bad is because the PUFAs and the grains, not the fact it's high-carb.

----------


## trey4sports

oh dear lord....

----------


## Acala

> i didn't see the "in the bloodstream" part. i got the impression that you have some sort of number that one can't go beyond. your statement is true but useless, as it doesn't say whether 10, 100, or 200 grams of glucose per day is excess. so it's not a basis for a good recommendation for glucose intake.


Advice based on blood glucose levels would be useless anyway, unless you are going to have multiple blood draws a day and constant blood work.  Clearly, if a person is showing signs of insulin insensitivity they need to stomp down hard on carbohydrate intake.  Other warning signs would include:

1. chronic systemic inflammation (but eliminating wheat alone might solve it)
2. Obesity (the close correlation between obesity and type II diabetes, which is indisputably caused by chronic excess carb intake, suggests that most, but not all, obesity is caused by excess carb intake.)  
3. Mental or physical agitation
4. Uneven energy levels

These all might have other causes, but excess carb consumption is likley.   

The BEST means would be through heightened body awareness.  If you FEEL a significant change in your energy level or physical state after a meal you might want to control carb intake.   

If you start by cutting out the things that are pretty clearly bad for you - like grain, HFCS, products fried in PUFAs, soft drinks etc. - you will find that you have substantially reduced your carb intake without even getting to questions about how much fruit, tubers, honey, etc you can eat.  It won't matter.

----------


## specsaregood

//

----------


## opal

I was on one of the primal sites.. long time reading yesterday and just now a question came to my mind - what about soup?  I saw 300 pictures of primal meals.. not one bowl of soup

----------


## trey4sports

> I was on one of the primal sites.. long time reading yesterday and just now a question came to my mind - what about soup?  I saw 300 pictures of primal meals.. not one bowl of soup


bean-less chili is primal.

----------


## opal

but no chicken veg .. or beef veg.. or just veg?

----------


## trey4sports

> but no chicken veg .. or beef veg.. or just veg?


meat and veg. would be primal. Of course there are going to be shades of primal but generally speaking youll be fine if you stick with avoiding refined carbs.

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## specsaregood

> i have a pair of the NB minimus life. They are great. Slightly thicker sole than the VFF but still close enough to the ground to be considered minimal, and they also don't separate each toe so that should help you.


I've really enjoyed putting wear on my lunasandals over the summer and even sprinting a bit in them.  But its starting to get a bit too cold for my late night walks; so I just ordered up a pair of the NB Minimus MO10BK.    Seemed like a decent enough tradeoff, I tried going back and wearing my traditional NB shoes a couple of nights and kept having problems with my ankles wanting to twist, so hopefully this will be closer to what I am now used to.

----------


## Acala

> I was on one of the primal sites.. long time reading yesterday and just now a question came to my mind - what about soup?  I saw 300 pictures of primal meals.. not one bowl of soup


I make a big pot of soup (stew?  What's the diff?) every week.  I brown some GF beef with onions and garlic, and then just throw in a bunch of whatever vegetables the CSA gave me that week.  So, yes, ABSOLUTELY soup!

----------


## PatriotOne

> but no chicken veg .. or beef veg.. or just veg?


http://www.paleofood.com/soups.htm

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## amy31416

Hot and sour soup, without the tofu, is definitely primal--and really freaking delicious. The egg strands are a good substitute for noodles.

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## trey4sports

> I've really enjoyed putting wear on my lunasandals over the summer and even sprinting a bit in them.  But its starting to get a bit too cold for my late night walks; so I just ordered up a pair of the NB Minimus MO10BK.    Seemed like a decent enough tradeoff, I tried going back and wearing my traditional NB shoes a couple of nights and kept having problems with my ankles wanting to twist, so hopefully this will be closer to what I am now used to.


yeah i really like the trail version of the Minimus line. I haven't worn them personally but they seem the most versatile.

----------


## Acala

So, just dropped by the employee health fair and took the opportunity to try out the body composition anayzer.  After about two years of living primal, I now weigh 180 pounds with 8% body fat.  I am 6 feet tall.  Blood pressure 111/65.  Resting pulse 57.  I am 55 years old.  That's the tale of the tape.

----------


## farreri

When I was eating Paleo, my bad cholesterol and triglycerides were high.  Have you had yours tested lately?

----------


## CaptUSA

> When I was eating Paleo, my bad cholesterol and triglycerides were high.  Have you had yours tested lately?


Yes.  Just had them tested last week!  

Total was 124 mg/dL
HDL was 74 mg/dL
Triglycerides were <45mg/dL
LDL was so low it didn't register.

I'm not sure what you were doing wrong.  I do take some fish oil a couple times a week so that helps, but most of it comes from just eating primally.

----------


## dannno

Why Did My Cholesterol Go Up After Going Primal? 
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-d...-going-primal/

The Cholesterol Myth
http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/?p=12

----------


## specsaregood

> When I was eating Paleo, my bad cholesterol and triglycerides were high.  Have you had yours tested lately?


I would find triglycerides increasing under a carb-restricted diet to be a bit surprising.

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## Acala

> I would find triglycerides increasing under a carb-restricted diet to be a bit surprising.


Exactly.  Not sure how you get elevated triglycerides without high carb intake. 

As for cholesterol, it worries me not at all.  Your body MAKES cholesterol in large quantitites.  And cardiovascular disease is largely inflammatory.  I live about the most anti-inflammatory lifestyle imaginable.

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## jj-

> So, just dropped by the employee health fair and took the opportunity to try out the body composition anayzer.  After about two years of living primal, I now weigh 180 pounds with 8% body fat.  I am 6 feet tall.  Blood pressure 111/65.  Resting pulse 57.  I am 55 years old.  That's the tale of the tape.


Are you sleeping well? Do you feel cold at times?




> Resting pulse 57


It's not clear cut whether having a fast or slow heart rate is beneficial.

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## Acala

> Are you sleeping well? Do you not feel cold at times?


I sleep beautifully, thank you.  I have a broad range of comfort when it comes to temperature.  But I feel cold when the weather is cold if I am not properly equipped.

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## Acala

> Are you sleeping well? Do you feel cold at times?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not clear cut whether having a fast or slow heart rate is beneficial.


I don't have any data.  Athletes in cardio-intense sports tend to have low heart rates because their hearts are efficient.  But dead people also have low heart rates.

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## jj-

> I sleep beautifully, thank you.  I have a broad range of comfort when it comes to temperature.  But I feel cold when the weather is cold if I am not properly equipped.


Good. Sounds like that diet is working for you. I didn't mean feeling cold when the weather is cold, I was referring more to feeling cold in the extremities when one wakes up, which is a common complaint of paleo people.

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## Acala

> Good. Sounds like that diet is working for you. I didn't mean feeling cold when the weather is cold, I was referring more to feeling cold in the extremities when one wakes up, which is a common complaint of paleo people.


I have always had good sleep.  But now, after ten years of serious meditation practice, my sleep is blissful.  And at the moment I am working with lucid dreaming, so that is amazing.  Yes, good times in bed!

I don't have any problem with my extremities being cold.

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## specsaregood

//

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## specsaregood

//

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## Acala

> Another month of primal living and another near 10lbs.  I might even hit my shortterm goal of 65lbs by new years if I actually try working out instead of just eating like a king.
> 
> 
> I hope any of my fellow rpfers that have struggled with weight give this a try; I'm glad i finally did.  The lure of "effortless" weightloss is indeed true.


Excellent!

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## specsaregood

//

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## Tod

> Athletes in cardio-intense sports tend to have low heart rates because their hearts are efficient.  But dead people also have low heart rates.


lol  I must spread some rep around before giving it to you again.

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## specsaregood

> Like I mentioned, meatballs are a great way to sneak some in.


It's that time of week again, meatball night.  In my ongoing quest to make as many meatball combinations as possible, on the menu for this evening is:  butternut squash and celery meatballs, made with some 80% grassfed beef of course.

should be interesting

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## opal

Have you tried buttercup squash?  I like it better than butternut

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## specsaregood

> Have you tried buttercup squash?  I like it better than butternut


I have not ever seen one; but should I come across one I'll give it a try now.

I do have a Kabocha squash on my countertop, haven't decided what to do with it yet.   i was considering trying to make some fries out of it.

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## opal

I had not seen that name for a squash before but low and behold.. same critter
buttercup = kabocha

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## specsaregood

> I had not seen that name for a squash before but low and behold.. same critter
> buttercup = kabocha


well then what do you suggest I do with it.

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## opal

um.. what I do with them is poke a couple holes through the skin - knife..long handled fork.. metal skewer.. something to let some steam out.. then I *gasp* zap it for a few minutes (5 or 6 depending on size) just to soften it up enough to slice in half easily.   Scoop out the seeds... put them cut side down in a baking pan with some water in it and just bake until soft - 40 minutes ish.. again.. depending on size.   Fill the scooped out hole with melted butter.. season.. chow down.

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## specsaregood

> um.. what I do with them is poke a couple holes through the skin - knife..long handled fork.. metal skewer.. something to let some steam out.. then I *gasp* zap it for a few minutes (5 or 6 depending on size) just to soften it up enough to slice in half easily.   Scoop out the seeds... put them cut side down in a baking pan with some water in it and just bake until soft - 40 minutes ish.. again.. depending on size.   Fill the scooped out hole with melted butter.. season.. chow down.


I roasted it, mashed it with butter, beat in a handful of eggs and fried up some pancakes.  They all got eaten and nary a word or expression of disgust was to be found at the breakfast table.   Darn good squash if you ask me.

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## opal

hmmmm.. for pancakes I'd have wanted to throw in some almond flour.  were they sticky enough to not fall apart in the pan without some nut *glue*?

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## specsaregood

> hmmmm.. for pancakes I'd have wanted to throw in some almond flour.  were they sticky enough to not fall apart in the pan without some nut *glue*?


oh yeah, I threw in some salt and pepper, baking powder and some coconut flour to thicken it (not really much at all, that stuff is super absorbant).

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## opal

cocount flour? wow.. I have a hard enough time finding unsweetened coconut .. can't even imagine who around here (50 mile radius) would have that.

wait.. pepper in pancakes?  I'm guessing there was no maple syrup involved

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## specsaregood

> cocount flour? wow.. I have a hard enough time finding unsweetened coconut .. can't even imagine who around here (50 mile radius) would have that.
> wait.. pepper in pancakes?  I'm guessing there was no maple syrup involved


hell, i put salt and pepper in just about anything, figured it went with the eggs.    yeah no syrup, just some butter on it.  the squash was sweet enough.

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## specsaregood

Ya know you are onto something when you show up at a family gathering and you are able to get people considering going primal just based on positive changes in your own appearance.

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## specsaregood

> So I've put a few miles on these now, at first I didn't like them and thought that I had gotten too small of a size even though I got the wide version.  But the rubber frame or whatever around on the ball of the foot stretched and now they just fit real snug and stick to my feet well.  Now I've grown to really like them, got into a groove running last night where I hit that point where I felt like I could go forever...been a long time since got that.   I'd recommend NB minimus line even though I don't have much to compare them too.


So after that, I decided to really start running, doing a 3 mile jog with the dogs every night.  And suddenly my weightloss stopped, --after consistent losses since may--all month it just stayed exactly the same.  But I stuck to it all and am really enjoying the "running".  Then events this week prevented me from doing much running and suddenly the weight disappeared (8lbs) and back to the normal rate of loss.  So it must have been something about the increased excercise that halted the loss...

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## jj-

^^ or coincidence. too bad you didn't not exercise until the diet stopped causing weight loss.

EDIT: What I said is wrong. I read your post again. Weight loss resumed when you went back to not exercising.

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## specsaregood

> ^^ or coincidence. too bad you didn't not exercise until the diet stopping causes weight loss.


Well it could also have to do with the same month including hurricane, funeral, birthday party cake and thanksgiving meals.   Yeah, I really just HAD to start running from feeling too energized and light on my feet.  I'd go for a walk with the mutts, and just want to run instead so that what they get now.

The other night, me and the mutt that is a predator came across a particularly ballsy herd of suburban deer.  They tried to stand their ground until me and the devil hound turned on the sprint full throttal.    They thought we were bluffing at first....lol   The mutt thought it was the best "walk" ever.

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## Acala

> So after that, I decided to really start running, doing a 3 mile jog with the dogs every night.  And suddenly my weightloss stopped, --after consistent losses since may--all month it just stayed exactly the same.  But I stuck to it all and am really enjoying the "running".  Then events this week prevented me from doing much running and suddenly the weight disappeared (8lbs) and back to the normal rate of loss.  So it must have been something about the increased excercise that halted the loss...


Running might be causing a cortisol release.  Cortisol can cause weight gain.  Another, happier, possibility is that you started putting on muscle.  Running works some big muscles and it doesn't take much to put on a couple pounds of muscle if you suddenly start working them hard.  

To avoid cortisol, aerobic exercise should generally not last longer than 20 minutes OR be really low level.

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## BamaAla

> Running might be causing a cortisol release.  Cortisol can cause weight gain.  Another, happier, possibility is that you started putting on muscle.  Running works some big muscles and it doesn't take much to put on a couple pounds of muscle if you suddenly start working them hard.  
> 
> To avoid cortisol, aerobic exercise should generally not last longer than 20 minutes OR be really low level.


Cosign. Watch that cortisol if you can. Did your sleep patterns change any?

Careful with the "chronic cardio." 3 miles might be a fart in the wind to some folks and it might be pushing your hr too high for too long for others. I believe the rule of thumb is to stay below 75% max for your cardio performances and keep them briefer. 

You could be hitting a plateau as well. Did you change your average macro nutrient intake in that same time period? I plateaued at around the 10 month mark and stayed static for about 2 or 3 months. Just keep your head down and power through. And as always, trust the tape or bf% measurements more than the scales.

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## specsaregood

> To avoid cortisol, aerobic exercise should generally not last longer than 20 minutes OR be really low level.


yeah, 3 miles takes me about 45min.   I'm not fast, but its a pace I can bear and my legs get well tired before I get winded.   The key for me is that I'm enjoying it.  Running has never been my strength; I've taken part in a fair number of aerobic sports but running has always killed me before now.




> You could be hitting a plateau as well. Did you change your average macro nutrient intake in that same time period? I plateaued at around the 10 month mark and stayed static for about 2 or 3 months. Just keep your head down and power through. And as always, trust the tape or bf% measurements more than the scales.


No other changes other than excercise and a few more days where I ate some non primal foods.   Yeah, If I plateaud now I wouldn't really have room to complain and would still live this way as its better than I was before.

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## mac_hine

Here's a great testimonial from MDA:

* I Have Never Felt Better in My Life*
The beginning of my success story starts out as most might, with very unhealthy eating habits. I can remember as a kid in 4th or 5th grade making my own version of a milkshake which consisted of a whole row of Oreos that was mixed up with milk until it was a consistency that was near impossible to drink. Around that same time I also became addicted to Pepsi cola. It seemed like I had 2-3 cans a day and this continued throughout high school. I was a somewhat active kid and I did not seem to ever put on weight.

After high school I attended an art college where food took a back seat to my artwork. When I would eat, it was the typical college food, e.g. cafeteria pizza, breakfast bars, steak-ums and a lot of frozen microwavable meals (especially taquitos), while changing my consumption of cola to 4-6 Dr. Peppers a day. On the outside I seemed to be very healthy, but inside I was doing great harm to my body daily. I weighed about 130 pounds at 57 with barely any muscle at all.

Shortly before I graduated college I was physically assaulted. I had one side of my face crushed so badly that the bone fragments became so small I ended up having to have two six and a half hour surgeries where titanium plates were implanted and a bone grafting had to be done. To say that I was depressed is a gross understatement. My time after that was invested in personal creative projects. I shut myself off from the outside world and with the exception of the artist in me I really didnt care about myself. I could feel myself declining into a sad state mentally, physically, and emotionally. Around this time I also noticed a gut forming.

About a year and a half after I graduated college, I landed a salary job which included a yearly travel season. Between my newfound income and not having a kitchen on the road, I was eating at restaurants and fast food joints daily. My favorite go-to food at bars were deep-fried breaded appetizers. I kind of knew these were not the healthiest decisions, so when I would buy groceries I tried to counterbalance it by buying anything that said reduced fat or fat free. Little did I know back then that saturated fat should have been my friend and that sugar and carbs should have been avoided. I assumed that fat made you fat and sugar and carbs just gave you energy. So I kept eating tons of snack food while at home and continued drinking 2-3 cans of Dr. Pepper daily. Over a five year period my weight shot up from around 135 to over 180 pounds.

Now, at a weight of over 180 pounds I put a lot of effort into pretending that I was happy. I have always been a comedian, if you will, always joking around, but I wasnt kidding myself, I was miserable inside. I would wake up in the morning having to pop my back into place because, while sleeping on my side, my gut would twist my back out of whack. Almost daily I would throw up stomach acid, which, let me tell you, was not a great way to start the day. Headaches were a daily occurrence and I was always tired after lunch. As an artist, I did not just work from 9 to 5. I continued working on art and other projects well into the night wearing myself thin and getting stressed out way too easily.

In 2010, I can remember having a typical busy day and stopping by the grocery store after work. I decided to take my blood pressure in one of those machines by the pharmacy. I ended up doing it three different times because after I saw the first result I knew it had to have been wrong. It wasnt. I was borderline stage three hypertension. During my next doctor appointment I was told that I had to take blood pressure medication and that for my height I was technically obese. I remember thinking to myself that the guidelines were a joke. What if it was all muscle? Would I still be obese? I was in denial.

When I turned 30 in March of 2011, I started to question my health and purchased my first scale. I had taught myself how to make sushi rolls at that time and thought it would be a great way to lose weight and get healthy. I actually made a sushi rolling station in my living room and ate tons of the stuff. This approach definitely did not work. My next approach was to purchase a little blender and make fruit smoothies. I was successful with making something that tasted extremely good but there was so much sugar in the drinks that my weight did not budge; it may have even gone up. Was I doomed? Was I always going to be unhealthy?

My next doctor appointment was in May of 2011. My blood pressure with medication was still in stage 2 hypertension and I was still right at the obese mark. I remember thinking that I really needed to change my life around and not knowing how to do it. I couldnt settle with failure.

I had been reading a blog almost daily that posted an array of different authors from different websites with the common theme of personal liberty, economics, health and wellness, among other subjects. When I read the articles from what I now know was a godsend of a website MarksDailyApple.com showing success stories of how people were able to lose weight and become healthier by eating bacon, I knew it was too good to be true (just like all of the gold that was waiting for me to pick up in a Nigerian bank account). Around August of that year I noticed a friend of mine losing weight who told me it was easy. He was following what Marks Daily Apple talked about daily. I said I would give it a try. I knew it was going to be a challenge since I was going into my travel season and so much of the food I ate was on the list of what not to eat.

Wow, what a leap of faith. Eating more of the foods that I was taught were bad for me (bacon, eggs, butter, and other saturated fat filled foods), however, eating no sugar or grains (wait no pasta, Im Italian, thats not possible!). The first ten days of not eating grain or sugar was pretty difficult, but noticing the 10 pounds that shed off effortlessly without exercise was a great motivational factor. I was very strict with sticking to this but maybe once every 2 months I would cheat by having a piece of cake or pizza to avoid being that person at a social gathering. I did not cheat weekly like I hear some people do because honestly I did and still do digest grains, they are just in a liquid and fermented form. I really enjoy craft beer and did not want to give it up, and the fact that a bar opened up right by me with almost 600 different beers makes it pretty difficult to stop drinking them.

At the beginning of my travel season I started going on all my business trips with a bag of organic apples and almonds as my snacking foods, and avoided all of the foods that I had learned were bad for me. I noticed that the weight kept coming off without exercise. And when I would occasionally look at the FDAs recommendation for a daily intake of saturated fat I was usually double or triple what they called for so I stopped reading that daily percentage and just focused on the ingredients. I used to get a kick out of it when I told people, who said they were nutritionists, that I would randomly eat spoonfuls of coconut oil out of the jar.

On a mission, I wanted to see how much weight I was able to lose without any exercise other than daily walking. In about 5 months I ended up losing 47 pounds and took myself off of anti-depressants and my blood pressure medication. For the first time since I can remember I was looking forward to my next doctor appointment.

As I started to think even more health consciously, I became a huge fan of kale and spinach and would blend them (with my Vitamix blender) with other vegetables like carrots and beets to add some natural sugar. An all-vegetable smoothie actually did not taste bad, it just looked god-awful to the layperson. So when I went confidently to my next doctor appointment with my smoothie in hand I was hoping for a rewarding experience. I was a little nervous because I had heard stories that doctors go crazy when you take yourself of medication. I honestly had not taken my blood pressure for quite some time because I knew I felt healthy. I did the typical weigh-in and then sat in one of the rooms. The doctor that came in looked at my chart and immediately asked what the heck I did. I was ready to have my blood pressure taken, which I used to be very nervous about, but this time I wasnt. When he got the results he shook his head from side to side in amazement. My blood pressure was 108 over 66 with no exercise, just diet! From that point forward my doctor appointments have gone in reverse. Now they are asking me questions and apologizing for having so many to ask. They actually agreed that the FDA works hand-in-hand with big pharma and that the food pyramid was definitely way off course.

In the past two months I actually started to exercise. At this point, my main workout is doing pull ups with my door-frame bars. On my lunch breaks from work I try to do as many of them as possible as quickly as I can which adds cardio along with strength training. I never thought in a million years I would be at this point. My weight actually dropped all the way down to 127 pounds even with all of the additional muscle. During my physical 3 weeks ago, I had my cholesterol check and the results are: Total:180, HDL (good):74, LDL (bad):84, Triglycerides:109. Before I left the doctor he told me that I was a great role model. I dont think I have ever heard someone tell me that before. I have never felt better in my life. Every day I am getting stronger mentally, physically, and emotionally, and Mark Sisson I have you and all the other paleo health advocates to thank along with my doctors who were so supportive. I hope my story inspires and helps others the same way that other Marks Daily Apple success stories have helped me.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/i-hav...comment-884340

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## specsaregood

//

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## opal

Thanks for that link and info.. hubby has it in his head that grass fed is going to be lean .. tough and dry. *goes to check the site out now*

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## trey4sports

I'm going to post my pics some time. I've dropped 40 lbs since June 190 down to 148 today. Most came off in about 3 or 4 months

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## Feeding the Abscess

> Thanks for that link and info.. hubby has it in his head that grass fed is going to be lean .. tough and dry. *goes to check the site out now*


The grassfed beef I eat is so tender that I cook it on the stove - I do this so I can use the melted fat (and whatever garlic and pepper comes off the steak) in place of butter or olive oil for my eggs. I'd say the steak fat is even tastier for eggs than bacon fat.

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## opal

not that it's relevant for primal.. but the best fries ever are the ones deep fried twice in beef fat

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## specsaregood

> not that it's relevant for primal.. but the best fries ever are the ones deep fried twice in beef fat


potatoes are acceptable on the primal blueprint -- just restricted if you are trying to lose weight.  And fried in beef fat is as well.    I generally make homefries out of sweet potatoes and bacon grease. 

As to the grassfed beef, if your husband is not familiar with it; I'd try a limited amount first.  The taste IS different.  Not bad, just different.

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## opal

it would be awesome of the commissary would carry it..  their beef has been pissing him off for a year or so now.. all the fat trimming regs - can't even get an unpeeled knuckle anymore.  He doesn't like angus at all.. calls it propaganda shoe leather.

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## specsaregood

..

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## BamaAla

> "breaded" some chicken breasts with pork rinds tonight. the picky eater at the table said it was "ok" and didn't make any faces of disgust (win!), the toddler devoured it.
> 
> put pork rinds in a ziplock, crushed them finely with a rolling pin, rinsed the breasts, sliced into strips, patted real dry, shook them in the bag of rinds, then baked in the oven for 20 min.


Thanks. Doing this within the next week! What did you have with them?

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## specsaregood

..

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## specsaregood

..

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## muzzled dogg

Tom Woods AND paleo blogger Steve Cooksey (http://diabetes-warrior.net/) is speaking at the Free State Project's Liberty Forum next month.

Cooksey made national news a while back when he was threatened with arrest for blogging on diet and nutrition without a license http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/29/is...et-against-the

Anyways, use discount code: "2013NHLF". It's good for 10% off Full and 3 day speeches pass. Purchase your tickets here: http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum

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## KrokHead

> Tom Woods Goes Primal!


About time!

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## wetroof

I've eaten Paleo for a year. Now I mostly stick to an Ethiopian dish which tastes great. I never get tired of it. Basically you mix raw ground beef with butter that you render with spices. you also add in other spices. Had to order spices online - my Mom has an ethiopian friend who taught me. In a week I would consume about 5 lb grass fed beef 80/20 and 2 lb butter. Also I have oysters and beef liver every now and then.

An Awesome blog is : jackkruse.com. His writing is very entertaining. this is a good series he did: _jackkruse.com/brain-gut-1-who-are-we-really/

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## specsaregood

...

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## opal

Awesome news!  the 8% body fat scares me a little though.

I wonder what happens to thyroid levels if one already has a hyperactive thyroid

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## dannno

> I've eaten Paleo for a year. Now I mostly stick to an Ethiopian dish which tastes great. I never get tired of it. Basically you mix raw ground beef with butter that you render with spices. you also add in other spices. Had to order spices online - my Mom has an ethiopian friend who taught me. In a week I would consume about 5 lb grass fed beef 80/20 and 2 lb butter. Also I have oysters and beef liver every now and then.
> 
> An Awesome blog is : jackkruse.com. His writing is very entertaining. this is a good series he did: _jackkruse.com/brain-gut-1-who-are-we-really/


Can you go more in depth on these spices?

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## dannno

> Awesome news!  the 8% body fat scares me a little though.


7-10% is pretty good.





> I wonder what happens to thyroid levels if one already has a hyperactive thyroid


I'm guessing, if anything, it would help balance it back out.

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## trey4sports

> So I took some blood tests about 6 months ago after about 3 months of gradually going primal.   I took them again recently to compare and see how this fat-based diet was effecting me -- besides the about 65lbs lost.
> 
> The numbers are VERY positive.  I only came to post this as to further encourage any of my fellow paul supporters who have considered trying the primal blueprint out but might be afraid of the dreaded cholesterol, oogabooga.
> 
> THYROID
> 8/12: TSH SCREEN	6.00 H	uIU/mL	0.35-5.50
> 3/13: TSH SCREEN 3.20 uIU/mL 0.35-5.50 
> *-2.8!*  This might be the BEST result of all.  From a very underactive thyroid to a near ideal thyroid range.
> 
> ...




way to go specs! You have made some huge strides my friend! My only caution would be to tell you that you're trig's are super high. LabCorp reference is 0 -114 as normal and most paleo foodies are around 30 - 70 mg/dl. From what I understand trigs are a pretty good indicated of oxidized cholesterol so i'd definitely keep monitoring that.

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## jj-

> THYROID
> 8/12: TSH SCREEN	6.00 H	uIU/mL	0.35-5.50
> 3/13: TSH SCREEN 3.20 uIU/mL 0.35-5.50 
> *-2.8!*  This might be the BEST result of all.  From a very underactive thyroid to a near ideal thyroid range.


Congrats, everything looks like an improvement. Some natural practitioners though say that they rarely see a comfortably healthy person with TSH above 2, but you seem to be heading in that direction. Also, 9 months doesn't seem like a long time, so maybe you'll see further improvements just by giving your body more time to improve further.

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