# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Health & Well-Being >  I'm Going Raw Vegan

## TheAmazingJimmy

So today has been my first day trying to go raw vegan again. I finally found out the best kind of raw vegan. It's Low Fat High Carb raw vegan. 30bananasaday.com has a ton of info, the website is run by athletes who compete in foot races, cycling, ect., Harley has been doing this for over a decade, so it's not something detrimental to your health, that's for sure. The science behind it all makes sense and they don't try to sell you any magic powders, supplements, or high dollar garbage, the only thing they sell are books, all under $20 and personal training.

I've tried Raw Vegan before, didn't like it, all the food was too "heavy", so I quit and my health plunged dramatically. After a year, I finally figured out why, I was eating tons of nuts and olive oil and grains. With the LFHC style, I don't feel weighed down at all by this fat and garbage, plus I give my body the good calories it needs.

I currently weigh 265, I hope to lose about 100 or more pounds.

If you want to know more about this diet and the scientific FACTS (not just mumbo jumbo made up by people trying to sell you chems) please visit:

www.30bananasaday.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/durianriders
http://www.youtube.com/user/Freelea
http://www.youtube.com/user/EasyToBeRaw
http://www.youtube.com/user/liferegenerator

I could care less about the animal rights stuff associated with all this, I raise grass fed beef and chicken.

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## TheAmazingJimmy

Anyone care to comment?

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## Dsylexic

well,i think you might be making a mistake going for a hi carb diet when  you want lose weight. why dont you try going primal instead? check out how tom woods is doing with his primal  diet .
fat is not bad,too much carbs are the problem in modern american diets.
primal seems to be the in thing for libertarians(who anyway like to stand out from the crowd!)

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## sevin

It's not going to work. Unless you're one of those athletes trains for hours a day, those carbs are only going to make you fatter. To many carbs cause a spike in insulin which causes you to store more fat. 

I think what we were taught growing up is true: A well-balanced diet combined with exercise is best.

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## Tina

> well,i think you might be making a mistake going for a hi carb diet when  you want lose weight. why dont you try going primal instead? check out how tom woods is doing with his primal  diet .
> fat is not bad,too much carbs are the problem in modern american diets.
> primal seems to be the in thing for libertarians(who anyway like to stand out from the crowd!)


This is correct. Carbs/grains are not good for the body.  Do more research before going low fat.  Your brain needs fats to function properly.  Also, if you want to lose weight, the Paleo diet is the fastest and safest way to do it.

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## Bern



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## Yieu

Well, as a vegetarian I do recommend all manner of milk products as healthy.  I do think low fat high carb is a great diet.

The sad thing is, this thread is very likely to be overrun by people arguing against you, even though this thread is not a debate... it is about something you decided to do, so it would be rude to try to convince you otherwise.  I do hope that does not happen in this thread, but it has happened to the threads on similar topics.  Now, to drop that in hopes that it is not mentioned again in this thread. (Doh!  I spoke too late...)

Anyway... back on the topic that this thread is about (of your current diet), I never looked much into raw foods, but it looks interesting.  Cooking things makes them taste quite good, though.  Now lets hope this thread stays on topic.  

Edit: Whoa!  Okay, so I see that a few seem to think the topic is about criticizing his diet.  If this turns into another of the many "lets bash vegetarians" threads, I want no part of it.

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## brandon

Well I've done some research online about diets and I wouldn't recommend going vegan, but you already made up your mind so I wish you well. I'm sure you can drop a lot of weight doing it but you may end up losing a lot of muscle along with it. Many vegans end up skinny-fat with very little muscle tone and bad pimply skin. 

My recommendation would just be to start lifting heavy weights and counting calories. Try to eat high in protein, low in carbs and saturated fats, and stay under about 2000 calories a day (assuming youre a guy).

Forget about all the gimicky fad diets . THe only the that matters for weight loss is you burn more energy than you consume. In other words, calories in < calories out.

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## Yieu

OP, in an effort to stay on topic, I am glad you decided to make a personal choice that you value in your life, that you have demonstrated has helped your health.

Low fat, high carb is a great diet.  If you find yourself having any problems, you might want to add whole milk, but otherwise you should be okay.

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## Dsylexic

i am a vegetarian too. i lost weight and got fit by simply reducing the portions of my intake and exercising more. primal dieters dont think aerobic exercises like marathoning is good. i say bollocks. scott jurek the greatest ultramarathoner of today is a vegan.
so,personally,the primal story doesnt seem definitive to me.there are many ways to achieve fitness

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## tfurrh

51% of my diet is raw vegan.

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## specsaregood

> I never looked much into raw foods, but it looks interesting.  Cooking things makes them taste quite good, though.  Now lets hope this thread stays on topic.


Yeah, my first thought was "ugh, that sounds bland and boring"; but if weightloss is the goal, then turning eating into a chore rather than a rewarding experience is probably a good decision.

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## Yieu

> Yeah, my first thought was "ugh, that sounds bland and boring"; but if weightloss is the goal, then turning eating into a chore rather than a rewarding experience is probably a good decision.


Yeah... cooking foods and adding spices really makes the whole experience more enjoyable, no matter what you eat.

I've been thinking of trying what Dyslexic mentioned and do smaller portions.  When I lost the most weight, it was at a time when I had small portions of oatmeal, pb&j, apple/banana, burritos, and milk.  The milk helped keep me satiated while eating less, but as for the OP, the neat thing about vegetables is you can eat a lot without having too many calories.

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## Acala

The vegan diet presents a grave risk of developing a fatty acid imbalance and a b-12 deficiency.  If you insist on being truly vegan, you are going to need to slurp down some serious quantitites of algae to get your omega-3 needs met.  I don't even know how you will get your b-12.

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## KCIndy

Once, I ate a carrot stick.  Does that count?

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## Yieu

> The vegan diet presents a grave risk of developing a fatty acid imbalance and a b-12 deficiency.  If you insist on being truly vegan, you are going to need to slurp down some serious quantitites of algae to get your omega-3 needs met.  I don't even know how you will get your b-12.


Yes, that can be a problem for some vegans, though that can be solved with milk/yogurt or supplements, and it is being added to more products.  If they went with milk/yogurt they'd be vegetarian and not vegan though, which I only mention because the difference is not well known.

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## specsaregood

> The vegan diet presents a grave risk of developing a fatty acid imbalance and a b-12 deficiency.  If you insist on being truly vegan, you are going to need to slurp down some serious quantitites of algae to get your omega-3 needs met.  I don't even know how you will get your b-12.


Here ya go:

Vitamin B-12 USP (as cyanocobalamin)
125 mcg
2,083% daily value

problem solved.

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## JuicyG

> Many vegans end up skinny-fat with very little muscle tone and bad pimply skin.


Those are idiots because they eat lots of sugary BS, chocolate, soda, lots of foods with sugar in them. A healthy vegan diet should contain ZERO added sugar. The fruits and vegetables contain already plenty of salts and sugars, more than enough of what body needs. Added sugar is just comfort food. 

A good vegan diet is very low on carbs.  I`d advise on limiting consumption of grains. I`d also advice against processed flour, processed oils and such.

Fats are important, nuts, seeds, vegetable or fish oils. Of course you can get fat if you you eat too many nuts and seeds same as you can get fat by eating too much cheese and bacon. 

What some people here are misguided about is the animal based diet. They think eating meat is good because ancestors used to eat meat. This is false. 
Ancestors used to eat meat because was easily and readily available. Just because they used to eat it doesn`t mean it`s good for a long healthy life. Saturated fats are bad and don`t let people tell you otherwise because they`re charlatans who just want to sustain an unhealthy but pleasant lifestyle of meat consumption. 
Meat and all meat associated products such as diaries and eggs are full of opioid substances that cause addiction. An addicted person will say and do anything to maintain his addiction. 

That being said, a paleo-diet is healthier than the normal crap people usually eat because it`s mostly organic, without additives, herbicides and stuff like that. However, it`s a diet that would eventually cut some years of your life due to saturated fat content and the acidic nature of meat based products. Animal protein is also something that does more harm than good. 

p.s: I`m not an animal lover also but I think animals should be treated with respect, not abused.

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## donnay

> The vegan diet presents a grave risk of developing a fatty acid imbalance and a b-12 deficiency.  If you insist on being truly vegan, you are going to need to slurp down some serious quantitites of algae to get your omega-3 needs met.  I don't even know how you will get your b-12.


Sublingual Vitamin B-12

http://products.mercola.com/vitamin-b12-spray/

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## DonovanJames

Vegan plant based whole foods diet. Check out the documentary "Forks Over Knives" on netflix if you have it. Its pretty insightful.

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## Acala

> Here ya go:
> 
> Vitamin B-12 USP (as cyanocobalamin)
> 125 mcg
> 2,083% daily value
> 
> problem solved.


What's the source?  Animal or laboratory?  Either way it ain't vegan.

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## JuicyG

> The vegan diet presents a grave risk of developing a fatty acid imbalance and a b-12 deficiency.  If you insist on being truly vegan, you are going to need to slurp down some serious quantitites of algae to get your omega-3 needs met.  I don't even know how you will get your b-12.


It`s funny you say that because most tests show it`s exactly the meat eaters who suffer most from B12 deficiency. Lots of people eat meat from animals fed only crap that has zero B12 content. 

B12 is result of a bacteria, it`s something found on vegetables animals eat. Animals get it from plants. 

If you eat unwashed vegetables you should get enough B12. 

There`s quite some controversy about B12. Some studies show liver can hold enough B12 for years as body needs only miniscule quantity. Spirulina should be good source of B12 although there is some controversy about that.

Anyways, just to make sure you can eat B12 enriched food or take it as multivitamin supplement that also contains B12 if you want to be on the safe side.

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## Jingles

I've always been more of a carnivore than a vegan...

I've generally been doing the primal diet before I even knew what the primal diet was. A long time ago (when I was like 15). I cut out like all bread/grains/carbs and anything that I drank that contained calories. I never really ate much diary other than cheese. It was just a lot of nuts, meat, fruit, and vegetables. I went from 185lbs to 120lbs in the course of like 4 months. I'm now about 135/140lbs now (I'm 21 so this is probably a more healthy weight than when I was like 120lbs at 15).

I've kind of have been breaking that diet out of laziness/not having much money, but when I found out about the primal diet I definitely want to go back to it.

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## specsaregood

> What's the source?  Animal or laboratory?  Either way it ain't vegan.


There are plenty of vegan b-12 vitamins on the market.  I just picked one b-12 supplement at random but if you want vegan it isn't hard to find.

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## fatjohn



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## trey4sports

Go for it.

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## green73

Paleo is where it's at. It's what we're designed for. Our brains need meat.

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## Nathan Hale

Dr Andrew Weil is a great resource for healthy eating.  He advocates a Mediterranean diet, which combines "caveman diet" aspects with whole grains and healthy oils and fish.

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## Acala

> A good vegan diet is very low on carbs.  I`d advise on limiting consumption of grains. I`d also advice against processed flour, processed oils and such..


Good advice




> Fats are important, nuts, seeds, vegetable or fish oils. Of course you can get fat if you you eat too many nuts and seeds same as you can get fat by eating too much cheese and bacon..


Cheese and bacon won't make you fat.  The idea that eating fat makes you fat is a myth.  Fat storage is controlled by insulin.  Insulin is stimulated by carbs, not fat.  I eat tons of fat, including a daily ration of bacon, and I am lean as a bushman.   




> Saturated fats are bad and don`t let people tell you otherwise because they`re charlatans who just want to sustain an unhealthy but pleasant lifestyle of meat consumption.


Got ANY scientific basis for this?  The war against saturated fat was started based on one flawed study. (see: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/satur...#axzz1l3DKhTJd)  And what has been the result of eliminating saturated fat from the American diet over the last fifty years?  An epidemic of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and a wide variety of inflammatory disease.

Saturated fat was a large part of the human diet for all of human history.  Is it possible that we can improve on our natural diet?  Sure.  But I want evidence, not mythology.  And in the absence of evidence, I will choose the natural diet. 




> Meat and all meat associated products such as diaries and eggs are full of opioid substances that cause addiction. An addicted person will say and do anything to maintain his addiction.


Oh man.  This is hilarious.  I didn't eat red meat for thirty years.  I started up recently based on my research into diet and health.  So you see, I was not a meat addict trying to justify my addiction.  Rather I was, by your view, a non-addict who changed his diet based on science.  

And the results have been fantastic.

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## donnay

> It`s funny you say that because most tests show it`s exactly the meat eaters who suffer most from B12 deficiency. Lots of people eat meat from animals fed only crap that has zero B12 content. 
> 
> B12 is result of a bacteria, it`s something found on vegetables animals eat. Animals get it from plants. 
> 
> If you eat unwashed vegetables you should get enough B12. 
> 
> There`s quite some controversy about B12. Some studies show liver can hold enough B12 for years as body needs only miniscule quantity. Spirulina should be good source of B12 although there is some controversy about that.
> 
> Anyways, just to make sure you can eat B12 enriched food or take it as multivitamin supplement that also contains B12 if you want to be on the safe side.



I cannot vouch for everyone else who eats meat and are wide awake, but I only eat beef that is grass-fed and aged with no hormones, antibiotics or steroids.  The Poultry I eat is free range, and fish that I eat is wild caught.

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## Yieu

> Paleo is where it's at. It's what we're designed for. Our brains need meat.


There is nothing in meat that the human body needs which is not readily and easily available through plant sources or milk.

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## Yieu

> Go for it.


Respect.  +rep for respecting someone's personal choices.

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## Acala

> There are plenty of vegan b-12 vitamins on the market.  I just picked one b-12 supplement at random but if you want vegan it isn't hard to find.


where do they get the b-12 from vegan sources?

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## jmdrake

I LOL at all of the dietary "experts" at RPF.

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## Acala

> Dr Andrew Weil is a great resource for healthy eating.  He advocates a Mediterranean diet, which combines "caveman diet" aspects with whole grains and healthy oils and fish.


Take a good look at a picture of andrew weil.  That's what we call a wheat belly.  Now google an image of mark sission.  That's paleo.

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## Yieu

> where do they get the b-12 from vegan sources?


Bacteria and cyanocobalamin are found in Vcaps (plant-based capsules) as well as in some pro-biotic drinks, and can be found on unsterilized vegetables in bacteria form.

B12 is also produced by bacteria within the human mouth, so you can drink a glass of water after sleeping for a dose of B12.

Of course if you go vegetarian instead of vegan, you can have all sorts of yogurts and pro-biotic milk-based drinks that have B12.

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## donnay

*Strict Vegan Diets May Be Dangerous, Especially For Expectant Mothers and Children*
*
Avoiding the Dangers of a Vegan Diet*

*Blood Type Diet*

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## specsaregood

> where do they get the b-12 from vegan sources?


Dunno.  I'm sure the information is out there though.

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## Acala

> There is nothing in meat that the human body needs which is not readily and easily available through plant sources or milk.


False.  Omega 3 fatty acids are not easily available through plants unless you consider algae to be easily available.

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## Yieu

> Bacteria and cyanocobalamin are found in Vcaps (plant-based capsules) as well as in some pro-biotic drinks, and can be found on unsterilized vegetables in bacteria form.
> 
> B12 is also produced by bacteria within the human mouth, so you can drink a glass of water after sleeping for a dose of B12.
> 
> Of course if you go vegetarian instead of vegan, you can have all sorts of yogurts and pro-biotic milk-based drinks that have B12.


Oh, looks like you can get B12 from vital wheat gluten too, and wheat gluten is very delicious, though I know you are against wheat gluten so you don't need to explain how much you are against it.

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## Acala

> Dunno.  I'm sure the information is out there though.


It appears to be extracted from bacterial fermentation.  Bacteria probably qualifies as vegan.

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## jmdrake

> False.  Omega 3 fatty acids are not easily available through plants unless you consider algae to be easily available.


Oh really?  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=flaxseed+oil+omega+3

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## Yieu

> False.  Omega 3 fatty acids are not easily available through plants unless you consider algae to be easily available.


So milk doesn't have omega 3's, is what you are saying?  Because I said "plant sources or milk".  I was not speaking of vegans in that comment, and it was not in reply to a comment specifically about vegans.  But there are great plant sources of omega 3, such as flax.

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## Acala

> Oh, looks like you can get B12 from vital wheat gluten too, and wheat gluten is very delicious, though I know you are against wheat gluten so you don't need to explain how much you are against it.


Wheat gluten causes problems for MANY people.  Not my opinion, scientific fact.

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## Acala

> So milk doesn't have omega 3's, is what you are saying?  Because I said "plant sources or milk".  I was not speaking of vegans in that comment, and it was not in reply to a comment specifically about vegans.  But there are great plant sources of omega 3, such as flax.


Your statement was that you can get omega 3 from plants OR milk.  That is not a true statement.  You can get omega 3 easily from milk, yes, but not plants.

Flax is not a great source of omega 3 because it lacks the form that humans need most.  The ONLY good plant source of the forms of omega 3 humans need in their diet is algae.

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## Yieu

> *Strict Vegan Diets May Be Dangerous, Especially For Expectant Mothers and Children*
> *
> Avoiding the Dangers of a Vegan Diet*
> 
> *Blood Type Diet*


Donnay, I think that it would be very helpful if these articles had some context.  The context they lack is that simply adding milk to the vegan diet to make it vegetarian solves all of the problems of the vegan diet.  Humans were meant to consume milk -- raw milk especially, and I believe that God designed us to consume milk and created cows to produce milk for us.

And when arguments are made against vegans, often times people do not differentiate between vegans and vegetarians so people read such articles and think that being vegetarian is just as bad, but that is not so because milk is in the diet, making it vastly different.  So it is important to make the distinction between vegan and vegetarian, or it might sound to some people like both are being criticized, when it would be inaccurate to make the same criticisms to both as the diets are different.

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## Acala

> Oh really?  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=flaxseed+oil+omega+3


Dig a little deeper my friend.  Flax lacks the forms of Omega 3 people need most.

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## Yieu

> Wheat gluten causes problems for MANY people.  Not my opinion, scientific fact.


I do not deny that, and I understand it is fact.  My only difference in opinion on gluten is that it is not universally bad for all humans at any quantity.

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## Acala

> Donnay, I think that it would be very helpful if these articles had some context.  The context they lack is that simply adding milk to the vegan diet to make it vegetarian solves all of the problems of the vegan diet.  Humans were meant to consume milk -- raw milk especially, and I believe that God designed us to consume milk and created cows to produce milk for us.
> 
> And when arguments are made against vegans, often times people do not differentiate between vegans and vegetarians so people read such articles and think that being vegetarian is just as bad, but that is not so because milk is in the diet, making it vastly different.  So it is important to make the distinction between vegan and vegetarian, or it might sound to some people like both are being criticized, when it would be inaccurate to make the same criticisms to both as the diets are different.


This thread was about a vegan diet, not vegetarian.  You are the only one confusing them here.

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## Acala

> I do not deny that, and I understand it is fact.  My only difference in opinion on gluten is that it is not universally bad for all humans at any quantity.


True.  A small percentage of people can tolerate it.  Most are better off without it.  And NOBODY needs it.

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## jmdrake

> Flax is not a great source of omega 3 because it lacks the form that humans need most.


Says you.

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fam...s-and-flax-oil
_I seldom leave home in the morning without having my daily tablespoon of flax oil or 2 tablespoons of flaxseed meal. Besides being the best source of omega 3's, flax oil is a good source of omega 6, or linoleic acid (LA). Sunflower, safflower, and sesame oil are greater sources of omega 6 fatty acids but they don't contain any omega-3 fatty acids. Flax oil is 45 to 60 percent the omega-3 fatty acid alphalinolenic acid (ALA)._ 




> The ONLY good plant source of the forms of omega 3 humans need in their diet is algae.


In today's global marketplace for food getting algae in your diet really isn't that difficult.  Plus algae is very easy to grow.

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## Yieu

> Your statement was that you can get omega 3 from plants OR milk.  That is not a true statement.  You can get omega 3 easily from milk, yes, but not plants.
> 
> Flax is not a great source of omega 3 because it lacks the form that humans need most.  The ONLY good plant source of the forms of omega 3 humans need in their diet is algae.


Algae is a good source for sure, but I'm not so sure about the claim about flax.

But if you have milk in your diet, you have nothing to worry about.  Once you realize that adding milk makes it all good, it sounds much less alarming.

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## Yieu

> This thread was about a vegan diet, not vegetarian.  You are the only one confusing them here.


Look back at the quote I was replying to.  It was a quote about "needing meat".  I made a vegetarian argument against that, because it is applicable and I feel it is a stronger argument than the vegan argument, and I have no reason to make a point with a penalty that I don't need to put upon myself.

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## jmdrake

> Dig a little deeper my friend.  Flax lacks the forms of Omega 3 people need most.


Right.  Because I don't agree with your unsourced opinion I haven't "dug deep".    

Like I said.  I LOL at the dietary "experts" at RPF.

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## Yieu

> Right.  Because I don't agree with your unsourced opinion I haven't "dug deep".

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## donnay

> Donnay, I think that it would be very helpful if these articles had some context.  The context they lack is that simply adding milk to the vegan diet to make it vegetarian solves all of the problems of the vegan diet.  Humans were meant to consume milk -- raw milk especially, and I believe that God designed us to consume milk and created cows to produce milk for us.
> 
> And when arguments are made against vegans, often times people do not differentiate between vegans and vegetarians so people read such articles and think that being vegetarian is just as bad, but that is not so because milk is in the diet, making it vastly different.  So it is important to make the distinction between vegan and vegetarian, or it might sound to some people like both are being criticized, when it would be inaccurate to make the same criticisms to both as the diets are different.


Couldn't agree more with regards to consuming raw milk.  I been doing it for years.  Raw cheese too!  The only reason I posted those articles is for people to read and form their own opinion on it.  I have been, however, paying close attention to Dr. D'Adamo's blood type diet.  I am A- and it says I should be more of a vegetarian.  Although I love veggies, and raw is much better to eat in many instances, I do have to have my Filet Mignon (smothered in caramelized onions and mushrooms), and pouched salmon and broiled chicken at least once or twice a month.  I just feel better.  Again, making the point that those meats I consume are not laden with antibiotics, steroids or hormones, and the beef is always grass-fed.

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## Wesker1982

> Cheese and bacon won't make you fat.  The idea that eating fat makes you fat is a myth.


Huge myth. I thought people stopped buying into it in the 80's. 

OP, eat fat.

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## Acala

> Says you.
> 
> http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fam...s-and-flax-oil
> _I seldom leave home in the morning without having my daily tablespoon of flax oil or 2 tablespoons of flaxseed meal. Besides being the best source of omega 3's, flax oil is a good source of omega 6, or linoleic acid (LA). Sunflower, safflower, and sesame oil are greater sources of omega 6 fatty acids but they don't contain any omega-3 fatty acids. Flax oil is 45 to 60 percent the omega-3 fatty acid alphalinolenic acid (ALA)._ 
> 
> 
> .


You still are not getting the important details.

There are THREE kinds of omega-3 fatty acids that are essential in the human diet: ALA (found abundantly in plants including flax)EPA (NOT found in flax or any other plant other than algae) and DHA (also not found in plants other than algae).  EPA and DHA are critical.  Human beings CAN theoretically convert ALA into DHA and EPA, but at such low levels of efficiency (especially in men) it is doubtful that they can get sufficient amounts from a plant sources.

That's the science.  Ignore it at your peril.  Machs nicht to me.

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## jmdrake

> You still are not getting the important details.
> 
> There are THREE kinds of omega-3 fatty acids that are essential in the human diet: ALA (found abundantly in plants including flax)EPA (NOT found in flax or any other plant other than algae) and DHA (also not found in plants other than algae).  EPA and DHA are critical.  Human beings CAN theoretically convert ALA into DHA and EPA, but at such low levels of efficiency (especially in men) it is doubtful that they can get sufficient amounts from a plant sources.
> 
> That's the science.  Ignore it at your peril.  Machs nicht to me.


Blah...blah...blah.  Contrary to what you've been led to believe, your unsourced opinion is not science and cannot be published anywhere.  Post a reference if you wish to be taken seriously.  Keep replying with your own opinion if you want to be a joke.

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## Yieu

> Couldn't agree more with regards to consuming raw milk.  I been doing it for years.  Raw cheese too!  The only reason I posted those articles is for people to read and form their own opinion on it.  I have been, however, paying close attention to Dr. D'Adamo's blood type diet.  I am A- and it says I should be more of a vegetarian.  Although I love veggies, and raw is much better to eat in many instances, I do have to have my Filet Mignon (smothered in caramelized onions and mushrooms), and pouched salmon and broiled chicken at least once or twice a month.  I just feel better.  Again, making the point that those meats I consume are not laden with antibiotics, steroids or hormones, and the beef is always grass-fed.


Cool.  I don't have a source of raw milk at the moment, but the temple I used to go to in another state had it, and boy was it delicious.  Served hot with spices like cinnamon/cardamom/honey, with bits of cream in it.  As for the last point you made, yes that is better than the commercial stuff.  I just recalled something a swami once said... that a cow's blood is very nutritious, but we get those nutrients from milk instead.

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## donnay

My husband cannot handle fish oil of any kind since the fish used is Mackerel, Sardines and Anchovies, even the Cod Liver Oil wrecks havoc on him.  If he takes these for one day he gets a severe case of gout!  So he started using Udo's Oil.  It seems to be helping and no sign of the gouty arthritis.

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## undergroundrr

Haven't read the whole thread, but in case nobody else has pointed out - High carb low fat is the fast track to muscle loss, crumbling bones, brain deterioration and suicidal depression.  There are a few human bodies in the world that can survive it for an extended period of time.  Hope you're one of those rare ones.

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## Yieu

> You still are not getting the important details.
> 
> There are THREE kinds of omega-3 fatty acids that are essential in the human diet: ALA (found abundantly in plants including flax)EPA (NOT found in flax or any other plant other than algae) and DHA (also not found in plants other than algae).  EPA and DHA are critical.  Human beings CAN theoretically convert ALA into DHA and EPA, but at such low levels of efficiency (especially in men) it is doubtful that they can get sufficient amounts from a plant sources.
> 
> That's the science.  Ignore it at your peril.  Machs nicht to me.


It is true that flax does not have those and algae does, so I like when pro-biotic drinks and yogurts add algae.  But I don't have a frame of reference as to the level of importance of algae over flax.  But even if it is a significant difference, which I doubt, the solution would be to have algae... not to compromise your own beliefs.

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## pcgame

> After a year, I finally figured out why, I was eating tons of nuts and olive oil and grains. With the LFHC style, I don't feel weighed down at all by this fat and garbage, plus I give my body the good calories it needs.
> 
> I currently weigh 265, I hope to lose about 100 or more pounds.
> 
> If you want to know more about this diet and the scientific FACTS (not just mumbo jumbo made up by people trying to sell you chems) please visit:
> 
> I could care less about the animal rights stuff associated with all this, I raise grass fed beef and chicken.


Vegan diet is dumb.

Here is what you need to do:  Do not eat olive oil.  Many people react badly to olive oil.  Some of my family members do.  Olive oil is good for other people.  Also I heard that a lot of olive oil isn't real olive oil.  Infact, a large percentage is a couple different oils then sold as "Olive" oil.   Eat good coconut oil instead.  Coconut oil is a saturated fat and it is good for you.  Eat lots of eggs.  Nuts and beans are great to eat too.  Eat lots of meat and veggies.  Do not eat too much fruit.  Limit your fruit intake.  Highly limit your intake of wheat, eat oatmeal instead.  Also do not go to the store and buy sandwich meat.  You realize they spray stuff on it to kill bacteria?  It ruins the health of your gut, which can hurt your entire body, including the brain.  (Brain and gut are made of the same tissues).  

Now if there are any foods mentioned above that you react badly to (olive oil, wheat and beans?), avoid them, otherwise eat them.  

The aforementioned diet resembles a paleo diet to some extent.  There are so many different versions of paleo, but assuming you don't react badly to any foods, my advice is great.

----------


## Gary4Liberty

> The ONLY good plant source of the forms of omega 3 humans need in their diet is algae.


mmmm I love algae yum

----------


## Yieu

> My husband cannot handle fish oil of any kind since the fish used is Mackerel, Sardines and Anchovies, even the Cod Liver Oil wrecks havoc on him.  If he takes these for one day he gets a severe case of gout!  So he started using Udo's Oil.  It seems to be helping and no sign of the gouty arthritis.


Just looked it up... that looks like a nice oil.  It even has medium chain triglycerides.

http://udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend_en.htm




> Ingredients: Flax oil*, sunflower oil*, sesame oil*, medium chain triglycerides (MCT), evening primrose oil*, soy lecithin**, rice bran and germ oils, oat bran and germ oils*, tocotrienols.


Those were the regular version... looks like there is also a DHA omega oil too.

http://udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend_DHA_en.htm




> An excellent vegetarian source of DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) (algae-derived).
> 
>     • Rich in Omega 3, 6, and 9 Fatty Acids
>     • Vegetarian source DHA / No Fish

----------


## xFiFtyOnE

Bleh. Bleh. Bleh.  Vegan, bleh.  I wish I could be a meatatarian.

----------


## raystone

> Paleo is where it's at. It's what we're designed for. Our brains need meat.


This

----------


## Yieu

Rabbits?

----------


## donnay

> Just looked it up... that looks like a nice oil.  It even has medium chain triglycerides.
> 
> http://udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend_en.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Those were the regular version... looks like there is also a DHA omega oil too.
> 
> http://udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend_DHA_en.htm



Here a good place to buy it cheaper too:  http://www.vitacost.com/productResul...=udo%27s%20oil


I also wanted to add: I make my own Kefir (pronounced - Key Fear) out of raw milk.  Kefir is excellent for your gut, it has the good bacteria one needs.  I also make yogurt, and cheese with the raw milk.

That is all--carry on!

----------


## xFiFtyOnE

> Rabbits?


It's the first photo I found that had meatatarian in it.

----------


## Yieu

> Here a good place to buy it cheaper too:  http://www.vitacost.com/productResul...=udo%27s%20oil
> 
> I also wanted to add: I make my own Kefir (pronounced - Key Fear) out of raw milk.  Kefir is excellent for your gut, it has the good bacteria one needs.  I also make yogurt, and cheese with the raw milk.
> 
> That is all--carry on!


Thanks for the link.  I'll see if I can find it locally first, then check back there.

Kefir is awesome!  I like the lifeway kefir.  Thanks for the pronunciation guide... I always wondered.  I was calling it "keh fur" and I've heard someone call it "kee fer".  I don't make yogurt homemade yet, but the best yogurt I've had was homemade by a friend.

I've been drinking this pro-biotic called Yakult, which has 8 billion bacteria per bottle.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakult

----------


## echebota

> well,i think you might be making a mistake going for a hi carb diet when  you want lose weight. why dont you try going primal instead? check out how tom woods is doing with his primal  diet .
> fat is not bad,too much carbs are the problem in modern american diets.
> primal seems to be the in thing for libertarians(who anyway like to stand out from the crowd!)


+1

----------


## Acala

> Blah...blah...blah.  Contrary to what you've been led to believe, your unsourced opinion is not science and cannot be published anywhere.  Post a reference if you wish to be taken seriously.  Keep replying with your own opinion if you want to be a joke.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

That was hard.

----------


## donnay

> Thanks for the link.  I'll see if I can find it locally first, then check back there.
> 
> Kefir is awesome!  I like the lifeway kefir.  Thanks for the pronunciation guide... I always wondered.  I was calling it "keh fur" and I've heard someone call it "kee fer".  I don't make yogurt homemade yet, but the best yogurt I've had was homemade by a friend.
> 
> I've been drinking this pro-biotic called Yakult, which has 8 billion bacteria per bottle.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakult


The only two things that make me pause is *sucrose* and *dextrose*.  I would like to see *honey* in it's place.  Just food for thought!

----------


## trey4sports

I think the best diet is somewhere between a vegan and paleo diet.

heavy on the raw vegetables and fruits, but still allows for some meat intake.

----------


## Acala

Oh, I forgot, purslane is actually one of the best plant sources of non-ala omega-3.  Still probably insufficient, especially if you have too much omega 6, which competes for the same metabolic pathway.  But if I were going to be vegan I would make purslane a big part of my salad everyday.

----------


## Diurdi

Good Luck.

----------


## JasonC

I only read the first page of this thread, but @ Yieu and the OP....

Personally, I haven't read anyone bashing his diet decision; I have seen people offering him opposing opinions and some resources to help him research the different opinions. There is nothing wrong with the OP getting ideas, opinions, and perspectives from people with all viewpoints so that he can then make the decision he believes is best for himself. From the little bit of research I have done, I too have read about how there are some fats that are actually good for your health and will not hurt any weight loss attempt as long as grains (carbs) and sugars are highly reduced. Moreover, a small amount of exercise would greatly speed up the weight loss process in conjunction with a good diet.

My own opinion is that the best diet for the average person's health is a mix of the vegan and paleo diets.

----------


## jmdrake

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid
> 
> That was hard.


From your own link purslane is a good source of EPA Omega 3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca_oleracea

Also from your own link corn fed beef, what most people actually eat, is not a good source of omega 3.  Owned by your own source.  But thanks anyway.

----------


## jmdrake

> Oh, I forgot, purslane is actually one of the best plant sources of non-ala omega-3.  Still probably insufficient, especially if you have too much omega 6, which competes for the same metabolic pathway.  But if I were going to be vegan I would make purslane a big part of my salad everyday.


You also forgot seaweed.  And you forgot that Omega 3 in chicken, beef or eggs is limited by the type of diet they get.  Free range eggs are great.  "Factory" farm eggs, not so much.

----------


## Acala

> From your own link purslane is a good source of EPA Omega 3.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca_oleracea
> 
> Also from your own link corn fed beef, what most people actually eat, is not a good source of omega 3.  Owned by your own source.  But thanks anyway.


Purslane contains a lot of EPA RELATIVE to other plants which generally contain none.  It is still inadequate.  

Not sure why you mention corn fed beef?  The paleo and primal diets, which I advocate, are strongly against grain fed beef.  I eat only grass fed and finished beef, free range eggs, and wild caught fish.  Straw man failure.


But enough of this silliness.

----------


## Acala

> You also forgot seaweed.  And you forgot that Omega 3 in chicken, beef or eggs is limited by the type of diet they get.  Free range eggs are great.  "Factory" farm eggs, not so much.


You should make at least a little effort to understand what you are attacking.  The paleo and primal diets are VERY conscious of the source of their food.

----------


## enjerth

> So today has been my first day trying to go raw vegan again. I finally found out the best kind of raw vegan. It's Low Fat High Carb raw vegan. 30bananasaday.com has a ton of info, the website is run by athletes who compete in foot races, cycling, ect., Harley has been doing this for over a decade, so it's not something detrimental to your health, that's for sure. The science behind it all makes sense and they don't try to sell you any magic powders, supplements, or high dollar garbage, the only thing they sell are books, all under $20 and personal training.
> 
> I've tried Raw Vegan before, didn't like it, all the food was too "heavy", so I quit and my health plunged dramatically. After a year, I finally figured out why, I was eating tons of nuts and olive oil and grains. With the LFHC style, I don't feel weighed down at all by this fat and garbage, plus I give my body the good calories it needs.
> 
> I currently weigh 265, I hope to lose about 100 or more pounds.
> 
> If you want to know more about this diet and the scientific FACTS (not just mumbo jumbo made up by people trying to sell you chems) please visit:
> 
> www.30bananasaday.com
> ...


My current daily diet:
4-5 stalks of Celery,
1-2 pieces of fruit,
literally, just a couple handful of other vegetables,
half an avocado
+ supper, whatever I want (which is getting less and less).

I feel better than I ever have in my life. And content.

I was 360lbs 3 months ago, down to 320 now and my body is coming to life again.

----------


## JasonC

> My current daily diet:
> 4-5 stalks of Celery,
> 1-2 pieces of fruit,
> literally, just a couple handful of other vegetables,
> half an avocado
> + supper, whatever I want (which is getting less and less).
> 
> I feel better than I ever have in my life. And content.
> 
> I was 360lbs 3 months ago, down to 320 now and my body is coming to life again.


Congrats, my friend. That's great.

----------


## jmdrake

> Purslane contains a lot of EPA RELATIVE to other plants which generally contain none.  It is still inadequate.  
> 
> Not sure why you mention corn fed beef?  The paleo and primal diets, which I advocate, are strongly against grain fed beef.  I eat only grass fed and finished beef, free range eggs, and wild caught fish.  Straw man failure.
> 
> 
> But enough of this silliness.





> You should make at least a little effort to understand what you are attacking.  The paleo and primal diets are VERY conscious of the source of their food.


It's about as easy to get algae (or grow it yourself) as it is to follow a strict organic "primal" diet.  So you should at least make a little effort to craft a decent argument.

----------


## Son of Detroit

I've been eating mostly chicken, fish, rice, eggs, and nuts.  Inspired by Lazar Angelov, who in my opinion, has as close to a perfect physique as you can get.

----------


## donnay

> From your own link purslane is a good source of EPA Omega 3.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca_oleracea
> 
> Also from your own link corn fed beef, what most people actually eat, is not a good source of omega 3.  Owned by your own source.  But thanks anyway.


Being we are getting close to St. Patty's Day *home-cured Corned Beef* has Omega 3 in it and much better for you.  Once you eat cured beef you have cured, you'll never like meat any place else!




> Grassfed Beef is higher in Omega 3 than fish
> 
> Normally a good ratio for omega 6:3 in fish is 2 or 3 to 1. The lower the better. Grassfed beef from Grassfed Organics is much higher in Omega 3 than fish, with a 6:3 ratio of 0.16 to 1. This information is from a study done at Iowa State University in August 2001.


http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm

----------


## Czolgosz

Not sure if it's been mentioned but it comes down to input, output and time.

Figure out the amount of calories per day that you need.  There's your input.  In the beginning don't worry about the types of calories.  Just start working toward the amount.  Keep getting your Big Mac meal, but consider ordering the small size.  Or consider not eating the fries.  If you need to, pick a booger and put it in the fries.  Like soda, try a diet.  Throw in some extra water.

Output, go on a walk.  Maybe get a bicycle.  You need something everyday, especially if you work a desk job.

Allow yourself time, it won't happen overnight.  Making gradual adjustments will be easier than jumping on a crazy diet and/or exercise program and you're likely to stick w/ something that you actually like over the long term.

----------


## Yieu

> I only read the first page of this thread, but @ Yieu and the OP....
> 
> Personally, I haven't read anyone bashing his diet decision; I have seen people offering him opposing opinions and some resources to help him research the different opinions. There is nothing wrong with the OP getting ideas, opinions, and perspectives from people with all viewpoints so that he can then make the decision he believes is best for himself. From the little bit of research I have done, I too have read about how there are some fats that are actually good for your health and will not hurt any weight loss attempt as long as grains (carbs) and sugars are highly reduced. Moreover, a small amount of exercise would greatly speed up the weight loss process in conjunction with a good diet.
> 
> My own opinion is that the best diet for the average person's health is a mix of the vegan and paleo diets.


There is a reason I posted those initial posts.  It was to preemptively guide the thread away from becoming a thread to bash on people who eat differently than most people (vegetarians) like previous threads on the topic had become.  It was my attempt to make the thread more civil than previous threads.  It worked, to a degree, and I am glad that it worked.

----------


## JasonC

> There is a reason I posted those initial posts.  It was to preemptively guide the thread away from becoming a thread to bash on people who eat differently than most people (vegetarians) like previous threads on the topic had become.  It was my attempt to make the thread more civil than previous threads.  It worked, to a degree, and I am glad that it worked.


Ah ok.. No problem at all, my friend, and I completely understand. The reason why I made my reply to you was to keep a healthy, respectful discussion going where no viewpoint is bashed and people can learn as much as possible. We both had the same goal

----------


## donnay

> Not sure if it's been mentioned but it comes down to input, output and time.
> 
> Figure out the amount of calories per day that you need.  There's your input.  In the beginning don't worry about the types of calories.  Just start working toward the amount.  Keep getting your Big Mac meal, but consider ordering the small size.  Or consider not eating the fries.  If you need to, pick a booger and put it in the fries.  *Like soda, try a diet.*  Throw in some extra water.
> 
> Output, go on a walk.  Maybe get a bicycle.  You need something everyday, especially if you work a desk job.
> 
> Allow yourself time, it won't happen overnight.  Making gradual adjustments will be easier than jumping on a crazy diet and/or exercise program and you're likely to stick w/ something that you actually like over the long term.


While I would agree to take things slow an easy, I would seriously caution anyone who drinks _diet_ soda.  Aspartame is some bad news.  It's an excitotoxin just like MSG.  Aspartame is the fecal matter of genetically engineered Ecoli bacteria.

http://www.bodycurednaturally.com/

----------


## TheAmazingJimmy

Did anyone check out my links? I've done tons of research on this subject, my diet is more of a fruititarian diet, the athletes that run the 30bananasaday website exercise only a few hours a week and sleep about 10-12 hours. They have plenty of scientific facts to back up what they say, plus, they don't try to sell any special powders or supplements. There are people who have been on this diet for decades, one raw vegan is over 108 years old, only eats meat once a year on passover. Mark Sisson takes supplements, testosterone and may even take HGH. I have nothing against people wanting to do the primal diet, if it works for you, good, but I'm pretty sure you're going to have a high acidic pH level, which cancer, viruses and diseases thrive on, vegan turns you alkaline. carnivores have low b12 too, there are three ways to get a good enough amount of b12 in your system, injections, eating dirt or supplements, probiotic. I'm choosing the probiotic route via Kombucha, that way I can create my own b12 in my body. I know people who had horrible diseases such as cancer and cystic fibrosis become raw vegans and it cured them and continue to live disease free. It also helps you maintain a healthy weight, I've seen when many people turn raw vegan there hair turns from orange to a darker color, they look young, they have more energy and they feel a lot better. 
Of all the diets I've looked into, this is the only one that hasn't tried to sell me junk like the powders and supplements and hormones, that tells me something, it's a diet that isn't lacking anything.

----------


## TheAmazingJimmy

Also, I'm going to post some before pics here pretty soon, I'm my second day into this, at the end of February I'll post more pics and my weight, I know I'll see a lot of progress, I used to be a cooked foods vegan when I used to do body building.

Btw, there are vegan body builders "http://veganbodybuilding.com/":

This guy needs a little money so he can afford some new jeans:


Vegans are fat and have no muscle:


And ya can't mention a fruititarian diet without a pic of Freelee:

----------


## Czolgosz

> While I would agree to take things slow an easy, I would seriously caution anyone who drinks _diet_ soda.  Aspartame is some bad news.  It's an excitotoxin just like MSG.  Aspartame is the fecal matter of genetically engineered Ecoli bacteria.
> 
> http://www.bodycurednaturally.com/



Agreed.  I should have mentioned that diet soda is a gateway drug to water, tea, coffee...better alternatives.

----------


## Magicman

If your looking for higher sources of protein check out Chili and Blue Green Algae

----------


## dannno

> It's not going to work. Unless you're one of those athletes trains for hours a day, those carbs are only going to make you fatter. To many carbs cause a spike in insulin which causes you to store more fat. 
> 
> I think what we were taught growing up is true: A well-balanced diet combined with exercise is best.


The insulin spikes only occur with highly processed foods and grains, not whole grains, legumes and tubers.

That is where the primal people have it wrong.

I watched an amazing video this morning debunking all that primal garbage, I'm going to post it later with it's own thread.

Eating meat causes me to gain massive amounts of weight, my body can't handle digesting meat.. It can handle digesting dairy and carbs, though. My metabolism goes way up when I don't eat meat.

----------


## amonasro

My parents went vegan with no added fats or oils for health reasons.

My dad's cholesterol dropped like 80 points in a month and they've both lost a bunch of weight.

Whoever is saying eating all those carbs will make you fat... eh... eating calories will make you fat. Not healthy carbs.

----------


## Restore America Now

I've been a vegetarian since 2008 and it was one of the best decisions of my life. Ignore the naysayers; you obviously know what you are doing. Good luck my friend.

----------


## dannno

OP, I'm coming back to the conclusion that having some starches is a good idea, and nuts/seeds are good as well, although I like to have a lot of low-carb veggies and fruits with them.

I would think the harder you workout, the more carbs you can have.

There is a study about some people and athletes going on a diet based primarily on potatoes, one guy who only ate potatoes for an extended period of time, and they do quite well.

I think you'll be interested in the video I post later.

----------


## dannno

Here is the video "The Starch Solution":





Here is the thread I created for discussion:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tarch-Solution

----------


## jmdrake

> Did anyone check out my links?


Probably not.  The "diet wars" have started to take on an almost religious fervor.  No need to click the links when people think they know it all.




> I've done tons of research on this subject, my diet is more of a fruititarian diet, the athletes that run the 30bananasaday website exercise only a few hours a week and sleep about 10-12 hours. They have plenty of scientific facts to back up what they say, plus, they don't try to sell any special powders or supplements. There are people who have been on this diet for decades, one raw vegan is over 108 years old, only eats meat once a year on passover. Mark Sisson takes supplements, testosterone and may even take HGH. I have nothing against people wanting to do the primal diet, if it works for you, good, but I'm pretty sure you're going to have a high acidic pH level, which cancer, viruses and diseases thrive on, vegan turns you alkaline. carnivores have low b12 too, there are three ways to get a good enough amount of b12 in your system, injections, eating dirt or supplements, probiotic. I'm choosing the probiotic route via Kombucha, that way I can create my own b12 in my body. I know people who had horrible diseases such as cancer and cystic fibrosis become raw vegans and it cured them and continue to live disease free. It also helps you maintain a healthy weight, I've seen when many people turn raw vegan there hair turns from orange to a darker color, they look young, they have more energy and they feel a lot better. 
> Of all the diets I've looked into, this is the only one that hasn't tried to sell me junk like the powders and supplements and hormones, that tells me something, it's a diet that isn't lacking anything.


Cool stuff.  Especially the whipped banana video.

----------


## trey4sports

> While I would agree to take things slow an easy, I would seriously caution anyone who drinks _diet_ soda.  Aspartame is some bad news.  It's an excitotoxin just like MSG.  Aspartame is the fecal matter of genetically engineered Ecoli bacteria.
> 
> http://www.bodycurednaturally.com/


but it tastes so good!

I eat pretty healthy but I drink 20-40 oz of Coke Zero per day.

----------


## RickyJ

Eat eggs and bacon with plenty of cheese and butter. You want to lose weight, this will do it.

----------


## RickyJ

> It's not going to work. Unless you're one of those athletes trains for hours a day, those carbs are only going to make you fatter. To many carbs cause a spike in insulin which causes you to store more fat. 
> 
> I think what we were taught growing up is true: A well-balanced diet combined with exercise is best.


True! Without lots of exercise carbs will turn to fat. Now if you are one of the few who do exercise a lot then you need carbs.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> The insulin spikes only occur with highly processed foods and grains, not whole grains, legumes and tubers.
> 
> That is where the primal people have it wrong.
> 
> I watched an amazing video this morning debunking all that primal garbage, I'm going to post it later with it's own thread.
> 
> Eating meat causes me to gain massive amounts of weight, my body can't handle digesting meat.. It can handle digesting dairy and carbs, though. My metabolism goes way up when I don't eat meat.


No, it works with whole grains too.  That's why grains are used to fatten animals for slaughter-and grain fed animals generally have poorer nutritional content compare to grass-fed.  (there are probably exceptions, like every rule)

----------


## jmdrake

> but it tastes so good!
> 
> I eat pretty healthy but I drink 20-40 oz of Coke Zero per day.


There are other sugar free/calorie free sweeteners that are natural and healthy.  I'm surprised nobody has come out with a commercially sugar free/aspartame free soda yet.  Maybe that's a business idea.  Liberty Soda?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Eat eggs and bacon with plenty of cheese and butter. You want to lose weight, this will do it.


This is true, believe it or not.   I like salsa on my eggs, though.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> There are other sugar free/calorie free sweeteners that are natural and healthy.  I'm surprised nobody has come out with a commercially sugar free/aspartame free soda yet.  Maybe that's a business idea.  Liberty Soda?


I think I've seen those at whole foods and trader joe's.  I'm not a soda person, so I could be wrong.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> True! Without lots of exercise carbs will turn to fat. Now if you are one of the few who do exercise a lot then you need carbs.


Yep.  The original Gatorade had almost no carbs.  The only reason athletes can get away with drinking the modern, hyper-sweet kind is because they are extremely active.

----------


## donnay

> but it tastes so good!
> 
> I eat pretty healthy but I drink 20-40 oz of Coke Zero per day.


Wow...that is alarming to me.  Coke Zero has aspartame.

My husband good friend's son had to have a brain tumor removed a few years back.  The kid was in his teens and the prognosis was not encouraging, to say the least. But thankfully, after the surgery, the therapy and healing process, it looked as if they got it all and all was well.  I asked his mother if Joey drank diet cokes, her response was; "Oh yes, he drinks about a twelve or more a day. He can't be without his diet cokes, that's for sure."  I made sure to send her as much literature about aspartame as I could, hoping that they would read it and stop using the stuff.  Hopefully you and others will take heed too.

http://www.naturalnews.com/011804.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8939194
http://www.rense.com/general2/braint.htm
http://www.organicconsumers.org/toxic/aspartame.cfm
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...d-the-fda.aspx
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/149206
http://www.aspartame.com/
http://www.wnho.net/blaylock_blasts_aspartame.htm

----------


## donnay

> Yep.  The original Gatorade had almost no carbs.  The only reason athletes can get away with drinking the modern, hyper-sweet kind is because they are extremely active.


Coconut water is much better and has electrolytes--much better than that nasty Gatorade!

----------


## trey4sports

> Coconut water is much better and has electrolytes--much better than that nasty Gatorade!


i just got some coconut water to try, and yuck! It was gross. Not for me, but i guess some folks really like it.

----------


## phill4paul

> i just got some coconut water to try, and yuck! It was gross. Not for me, but i guess some folks really like it.


  I use to climb trees as a youth, pull 'em down, open 'em up and drink it. Loved it. I'm not a fan of the meat though. Don't know why. I hate it.

----------


## PierzStyx

Well good luck to you man/dudette. *eats a hunk of steak*

----------


## trey4sports

If you don't like veggies but you want the benefits of eating veggies i recommend you get one of these 



and juicer your veggies along with a fruit like oranges and the fruit's sweetness almost completely masks the bitterness of veggie juice.



My usual concoction is something like

1. half a pound of green, super veggie (Kale, green leaf lettuce, spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens, many more if you look)

2. 2 oranges (or apples (too saucy IMO)) 

3. couple asparagus spears

4. handful of chopped carrots

5. celery stalk



you can make this daily drink at about a buck a serving and its delicious AND super healthy.

----------


## trey4sports

> I use to climb trees as a youth, pull 'em down, open 'em up and drink it. Loved it. I'm not a fan of the meat though. Don't know why. I hate it.


i bet some of it is the fact that I had a storebought version. I'd guess the pure version might be better.

----------


## donnay

> i just got some coconut water to try, and yuck! It was gross. Not for me, but i guess some folks really like it.


I love it! Drinking some right now. *Gulp, gulp, gulp*

----------


## SpicyTurkey

I'm going on a work-out diet. It works wonders.

----------


## affa

i've been vegan for over 10 years.  totally healthy, never been sick in that time.  i've dabbled in raw, but have never made the full crossover for various reasons.   my wife and i get a lot of our b12 from nutritional yeast, among other sources (and yes, there is a mini-debate over whether yeast is vegan, but usually originating from non-vegans trying to start something and I don't know any actual vegans who think nutritional yeast is off limits, unlike, say, honey, where there is a legitimate debate).

----------


## Acala

> i've been vegan for over 10 years.  totally healthy, never been sick in that time.  i've dabbled in raw, but have never made the full crossover for various reasons.   my wife and i get a lot of our b12 from nutritional yeast, among other sources (and yes, there is a mini-debate over whether yeast is vegan, but usually originating from non-vegans trying to start something and I don't know any actual vegans who think nutritional yeast is off limits, unlike, say, honey, where there is a legitimate debate).


Where do you get your EPA and DHA fatty acids?

----------


## bolil

Have fun being hungry all the time.  Save a plant... eat a cow.

----------


## tttppp

> So today has been my first day trying to go raw vegan again. I finally found out the best kind of raw vegan. It's Low Fat High Carb raw vegan. 30bananasaday.com has a ton of info, the website is run by athletes who compete in foot races, cycling, ect., Harley has been doing this for over a decade, so it's not something detrimental to your health, that's for sure. The science behind it all makes sense and they don't try to sell you any magic powders, supplements, or high dollar garbage, the only thing they sell are books, all under $20 and personal training.
> 
> I've tried Raw Vegan before, didn't like it, all the food was too "heavy", so I quit and my health plunged dramatically. After a year, I finally figured out why, I was eating tons of nuts and olive oil and grains. With the LFHC style, I don't feel weighed down at all by this fat and garbage, plus I give my body the good calories it needs.
> 
> I currently weigh 265, I hope to lose about 100 or more pounds.
> 
> If you want to know more about this diet and the scientific FACTS (not just mumbo jumbo made up by people trying to sell you chems) please visit:
> 
> www.30bananasaday.com
> ...


Going vegan is a pretty decent diet. You don't have to go completely vegan if you don't want to. Chicken, fish, and turkey are ok as long as you don't eat the fat. Just stay away from beef and pork and any meat fat.

You may want to consider chinese traditional medicine (acupuncture and herbs) to help lose the weight. If there is weight you can't burn off, chinese traditional medicine is your best option.

----------


## tttppp

> My parents went vegan with no added fats or oils for health reasons.
> 
> My dad's cholesterol dropped like 80 points in a month and they've both lost a bunch of weight.
> 
> Whoever is saying eating all those carbs will make you fat... eh... eating calories will make you fat. Not healthy carbs.


I agree completely.

----------


## anaconda

> Carbs/grains are not good for the body.


But if TheAmazingJimmy is going raw, I'm assuming he won't be eating any grains, since they need to be cooked to consume.

----------


## anaconda

> I think the best diet is somewhere between a vegan and paleo diet.
> 
> heavy on the raw vegetables and fruits, but still allows for some meat intake.


This is my intuition as well. And I would emphasize the fact that you used the word "raw" in your second sentence. So somewhere between VERY raw vegan with small amounts of meat. Having said this, could one substitute eggs & dairy for the "meat" in your opinion? If they wanted the vegetarian option?

----------


## anaconda

> but it tastes so good!
> 
> I eat pretty healthy but I drink 20-40 oz of Coke Zero per day.


I worry about you with this. there is a _reason_ it tastes so good. It's an "excitotoxin." I drank tons of diet pepsi about ten years ago but quit.

http://www.rense.com/general67/msg.htm

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWVexcl...xclusive15.htm

----------


## tttppp

> This is my intuition as well. And I would emphasize the fact that you used the word "raw" in your second sentence. So somewhere between VERY raw vegan with small amounts of meat. Having said this, could one substitute eggs & dairy for the "meat" in your opinion? If they wanted the vegetarian option?


With the exception of egg whites, dairy is bad for you.

----------


## anaconda

> With the exception of egg whites, dairy is bad for you.


Why? You're not going to use the cholesterol argument with egg yolks, are you? Chimps eat eggs when they get the chance.

----------


## Twilliams

My family and I have been mostly vegan with moments of vegetarian for the past 3-4 months. We all feel so healthy and vibrant and will never go back to eating the way we used to.  Best wishes to you!

----------


## tttppp

> Why? You're not going to use the cholesterol argument with egg yolks, are you? Chimps eat eggs when they get the chance.


The egg yokes are 100% fat. Fat is bad for you, especially animal fat. Also, if you want to lose fat, it makes sense to not eat fat.

----------


## anaconda

> So today has been my first day trying to go raw vegan again. I finally found out the best kind of raw vegan. It's Low Fat High Carb raw vegan. 
> 
> I currently weigh 265, I hope to lose about 100 or more pounds.


For weight loss, this might be an alternative strategy:

----------


## 3kgt

vegans lol

----------


## trey4sports

> This is my intuition as well. And I would emphasize the fact that you used the word "raw" in your second sentence. So somewhere between VERY raw vegan with small amounts of meat. Having said this, could one substitute eggs & dairy for the "meat" in your opinion? If they wanted the vegetarian option?


yeah, i would think so. As long as you're getting very high amounts of raw vegetables and fruits then i'd say moderate amounts of dairy wouldn't be bad. I have heard that in general dairy is not good for you, but i don't really know enough about it to say why.

----------


## Yieu

> With the exception of egg whites, dairy is bad for you.


Dairy means milk.  I have dairy, but not eggs.

----------


## Yieu

> This is my intuition as well. And I would emphasize the fact that you used the word "raw" in your second sentence. So somewhere between VERY raw vegan with small amounts of meat. Having said this, could one substitute eggs & dairy for the "meat" in your opinion? If they wanted the vegetarian option?


Well, I do not consider eggs to be vegetarian, but you can use dairy, beans, nuts, and vegetables instead if you don't want meat and you would not miss out on anything nutritionally.

----------


## dannno

> The egg yokes are 100% fat. Fat is bad for you, especially animal fat. Also, if you want to lose fat, it makes sense to not eat fat.


Fat doesn't make you fat, carbs make you fat. 

Meat, on the other hand, makes me fat because my body doesn't digest it very well and my entire metabolism gets shot to hell.. but a high fat and relatively low carb vegetarian diet with lots of cheese, yogurt and some raw milk and eggs on occasion is what causes me to trim down the most.

----------


## dannno

> yeah, i would think so. As long as you're getting very high amounts of raw vegetables and fruits then i'd say moderate amounts of dairy wouldn't be bad. I have heard that in general dairy is not good for you, but i don't really know enough about it to say why.


In my experience, pasteurized dairy, with the exception of yogurt and cheese are not good.. so stay away from pasteurized milk and cream, go with raw milk or almond milk. Pasteurized yogurt and cheese I think are ok as long as they don't use hormones and anti-biotics.

----------


## Yieu

> Fat doesn't make you fat, carbs make you fat. 
> 
> Meat, on the other hand, makes me fat...


Well, I think it is more likely the fat content than the muscle tissue which would cause that.

----------


## anaconda

> Well, I do not consider eggs to be vegetarian


Even if the egg is unfertilized? Why not?

----------


## anaconda

> The egg yokes are 100% fat. Fat is bad for you, especially animal fat. Also, if you want to lose fat, it makes sense to not eat fat.


If you ate 100% fat you would lose weight hand over fist. See Atkins.

----------


## tttppp

> If you ate 100% fat you would lose weight hand over fist. See Atkins.


No offense, but that is an incredibly idiotic comment. Thats got to be the dumbest way to lose fat, "eat more fat."

----------


## tttppp

> Fat doesn't make you fat, carbs make you fat. 
> 
> Meat, on the other hand, makes me fat because my body doesn't digest it very well and my entire metabolism gets shot to hell.. but a high fat and relatively low carb vegetarian diet with lots of cheese, yogurt and some raw milk and eggs on occasion is what causes me to trim down the most.


You're diet is completely wrong. You should stop what you are doing before you get serious health problems.

----------


## enoch150

> The egg yokes are 100% fat. Fat is bad for you, especially animal fat. Also, if you want to lose fat, it makes sense to not eat fat.


Egg yolks:

3.6% Carbs
15.9% Protein
26.5% Fat
52.3% Water

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...products/113/2

I did primal for a while. 50% - 70% of my calories were coming from fat. I had 5-6% body fat.

----------


## pcgame

if you are going to go on a high fat diet you must have high/moderate protein. Otherwise, you'll lose weight, but it will be muscle+fat.   Protein will help preserve muscle and you wont lose as much muscle on the diet.

----------


## enoch150

> I think the best diet is somewhere between a vegan and paleo diet.
> 
> heavy on the raw vegetables and fruits, but still allows for some meat intake.


Paleo and primal diets both emphasize a lot of veggies.

----------


## dannno

> You're diet is completely wrong. You should stop what you are doing before you get serious health problems.


lol.. I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables, I'm just telling you that when I eat more fat (certain types of dairy, eggs) and less carbs (sugars, grains, starches), I lose weight. I've been doing this for a long time.

----------


## Yieu

> Even if the egg is unfertilized? Why not?


Milk is a byproduct of a living animal, an egg is potential life, that is the difference.  And primarily, it is for religious purposes.

----------


## dannno

> No offense, but that is an incredibly idiotic comment. Thats got to be the dumbest way to lose fat, "eat more fat."


The body doesn't turn fat into human fat. It turns carbs into human fat. That's how our bodies work. 

My body handles fat just fine, it is muscle meat that screws with my metabolism and causes me to gain weight.

----------


## anaconda

> No offense, but that is an incredibly idiotic comment. Thats got to be the dumbest way to lose fat, "eat more fat."


Not idiotic at all from a scientific point of view. In the absence of glycogen in the cells (which happens pretty rapidly if you eat little or no carbs - this is the Atkins approach) the body will burn fat in a state of ketosis. I don't think the Atkins diet is healthy, but people who stick with it apparently can lose lots of weight. Just try eating 20 grams or less of carbs per day, and as much fat as you like (butter, olive oil, bacon, eggs, meat, etc.) and see what happens...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9235415AA0vRwt

----------


## anaconda

> The body doesn't turn fat into human fat. It turns carbs into human fat. That's how our bodies work.


^This.

----------


## tttppp

> Not idiotic at all from a scientific point of view. In the absence of glycogen in the cells (which happens pretty rapidly if you eat little or no carbs - this is the Atkins approach) the body will burn fat in a state of ketosis. I don't think the Atkins diet is healthy, but people who stick with it apparently can lose lots of weight. Just try eating 20 grams or less of carbs per day, and as much fat as you like (butter, olive oil, bacon, eggs, meat, etc.) and see what happens...
> 
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9235415AA0vRwt


I believe your wrong on that, but lets say your right. I'm still 100% positive that eating meat fat is bad for you. Eating lots of carbs is far more healthy than bacon or a stick of butter.

----------


## anaconda

> No offense, but that is an incredibly idiotic comment.


???

----------


## Acala

> No offense, but that is an incredibly idiotic comment. Thats got to be the dumbest way to lose fat, "eat more fat."


You need to look deeper.  While it may seem like common sense that eating fat makes you fat, it isn't true.  It is also not true that all calories are the same.  Your body responds in a dramatically different way to carb calories than fat calories.  You need to understand the role of insulin and leptin in the process.  Carbs stimulate insulin release which (among other things) causes fat storage.  Some carbs also seem to inhibit leptin sensitivity which prevents the natural supression of appetite so carbs tend to stimulate binge eating.

----------


## Acala

> I believe your wrong on that, but lets say your right. I'm still 100% positive that eating meat fat is bad for you. Eating lots of carbs is far more healthy than bacon or a stick of butter.


And you are basing this on what exactly?

----------


## tttppp

> And you are basing this on what exactly?


Chinese traditional medicine, and common sense. If you could only eat whole grains or a stick of butter for the rest of your life, I think most people would be smart enough to figure out that whole grains would be better for you.

----------


## tttppp

> You need to look deeper.  While it may seem like common sense that eating fat makes you fat, it isn't true.  It is also not true that all calories are the same.  Your body responds in a dramatically different way to carb calories than fat calories.  You need to understand the role of insulin and leptin in the process.  Carbs stimulate insulin release which (among other things) causes fat storage.  Some carbs also seem to inhibit leptin sensitivity which prevents the natural supression of appetite so carbs tend to stimulate binge eating.


Fat from carbs can be burned off very easily. Storage of fat from carbs is natural. Storage of fat from animal fat is not natural, and does not go away from exercise.

Also, I never said all calories are the same.

----------


## Acala

> Chinese traditional medicine, and common sense. If you could only eat whole grains or a stick of butter for the rest of your life, I think most people would be smart enough to figure out that whole grains would be better for you.


In other words, you have no authority for your position.

You are simply making a claim without foundation and stating it is right because smart preople know it is right.

The scientific fact is that there is no dietary need for carbohydrates but you die without dietary fat.

----------


## Acala

> Fat from carbs can be burned off very easily. Storage of fat from carbs is natural. Storage of fat from animal fat is not natural, and does not go away from exercise.
> 
> Also, I never said all calories are the same.


No offense, but you don't know what you are talking about.

----------


## Yieu

> I believe your wrong on that, but lets say your right. I'm still 100% positive that eating meat fat is bad for you. Eating lots of carbs is far more healthy than bacon or a stick of butter.


The problem here is you are telling people something is bad for them when they have no desire to give it up, and doing so without providing data to support it.  People will not like that, and will naturally fight back.  Personally, I am not interested in that argument.  But if you want to refer to health studies that help your argument, "The China Study" is a book with some, to give a hint.  But as for me, I would really, really prefer if threads did not go that route, because it usually ends in arguments.

In the end, it comes down to taste preference and/or religion.  People will eat what they prefer to.  We may prefer to not eat meat, and others may prefer to eat meat... I say, leave it up to the individual, you only really have control over what you do.

----------


## tttppp

> In other words, you have no authority for your position.
> 
> You are simply making a claim without foundation and stating it is right because smart preople know it is right.
> 
> The scientific fact is that there is no dietary need for carbohydrates but you die without dietary fat.


I've had next to zero fat for the last five years and I'm still alive. If I could eliminate 100% of fat intake I would.

Chinese traditional medicine is a perfectly legitimate reason not to eat animal fat. Its been around for roughly 5,000 years and they have mastered their craft. I would say thats a pretty good foundation.

----------


## tttppp

> No offense, but you don't know what you are talking about.


No offense but you are an idiot. Anyone who thinks a stick of butter is healthier than whole grains is a retard. Well I shouldn't say that. Most retards have enough common sense not to eat a stick of butter.

----------


## Son of Detroit

Everything doesn't have to be so complicated.  Things are fine in moderation.  I just make sure I get enough calories if I'm bulking, and make sure I'm not consuming too much when I'm cutting.  Important to get protons for dem dere muscle fibraz as well.  And cell-tech, lots of cell-tech.

----------


## Acala

> I've had next to zero fat for the last five years and I'm still alive. If I could eliminate 100% of fat intake I would.


Based on the style of your rhetoric, I am going to venture a guess that you are a young man.  Most young men can eat almost anything for a long time before they have ill effects.  It comes with the strong life force.  But if you DID eliminate 100% of fat, you WOULD die.  Please not the meaning of the term ESSENTIAL fatty acid.




> Chinese traditional medicine is a perfectly legitimate reason not to eat animal fat. Its been around for roughly 5,000 years and they have mastered their craft. I would say thats a pretty good foundation.


I have great respect for traditional Chinese medicine.  There is much wisdom in it.  There is plenty of bull$#@! in it as well.  But, as to your point, I was not aware that Chinese medicine counseled against the intake of animal fat.  Certainly the vast majority of Chinese people totally disregard that advice as vegans in China are extremely rare and the vast majority eat plenty of pork, beef, and chicken.

----------


## Acala

> No offense but you are an idiot. Anyone who thinks a stick of butter is healthier than whole grains is a retard. Well I shouldn't say that. Most retards have enough common sense not to eat a stick of butter.


Lol.  Let me help you with a little lesson in rational thinking and argument: 

1. Saying it doesn't make it so.  

2. Saying it with an insult as if that adds weight to your argument not only doesn't make it more persuasive, it makes you look weak.

And with that I will leave the field so you can have the last word.

----------


## tttppp

> Based on the style of your rhetoric, I am going to venture a guess that you are a young man.  Most young men can eat almost anything for a long time before they have ill effects.  It comes with the strong life force.  But if you DID eliminate 100% of fat, you WOULD die.  Please not the meaning of the term ESSENTIAL fatty acid.
> 
> 
> 
> I have great respect for traditional Chinese medicine.  There is much wisdom in it.  There is plenty of bull$#@! in it as well.  But, as to your point, I was not aware that Chinese medicine counseled against the intake of animal fat.  Certainly the vast majority of Chinese people totally disregard that advice as vegans in China are extremely rare and the vast majority eat plenty of pork, beef, and chicken.


Even the majority of chinese traditional medicine practitioners don't understand animal fat is bad for you. It makes sense that many normal people wouldn't know it as well. Chinese people can get away with eating some pork or beef because overall their diet is much better than ours. But they too will get health problems if  they eat animal fat.

----------


## tttppp

> Lol.  Let me help you with a little lesson in rational thinking and argument: 
> 
> 1. Saying it doesn't make it so.  
> 
> 2. Saying it with an insult as if that adds weight to your argument not only doesn't make it more persuasive, it makes you look weak.
> 
> And with that I will leave the field so you can have the last word.


But its ok for you to insult me.

----------


## DanConway

> I've had next to zero fat for the last five years and I'm still alive. If I could eliminate 100% of fat intake I would.
> 
> Chinese traditional medicine is a perfectly legitimate reason not to eat animal fat. Its been around for roughly 5,000 years and they have mastered their craft. I would say thats a pretty good foundation.


"Still alive" is a very low standard to meet.  Billions of people have lived on less than a dollar a day for the last five years (and longer), but I'm not going to do that just because they're still alive.

If Chinese traditional medicine condemns animal fat so strongly, why does Chinese traditional cuisine contain countless recipes for meat and organs?  Why do so many people go to Asian food stores when they're looking to get "weird" animal parts like chicken feet?  Why, when I ate dinner with my Chinese best friend in high school, did his mother never skim the fat from the soup, as Americans typically do?  Hell, why did they have chicken soup?

And no one is saying "eat nothing but butter for the rest of your life" (though I sometimes do eat butter straight-up, have done it more over the last couple years, and I'm much healthier than I was this time two years ago -- this isn't anywhere near the main factor, though, so don't act like I claimed it is).

By the way, if the majority of Chinese traditional medicine practitioners don't consider animal fat bad for you, as you yourself say, and you think so highly of Chinese traditional medicine, maybe it's not so bad for you.  (I await the imminent No True Scotsman fallacy.)

----------


## tttppp

> And no one is saying "eat nothing but butter for the rest of your life" (though I sometimes do eat butter straight-up, have done it more over the last couple years, and I'm much healthier than I was this time two years ago -- this isn't anywhere near the main factor, though, so don't act like I claimed it is).
> 
> By the way, if the majority of Chinese traditional medicine practitioners don't consider animal fat bad for you, as you yourself say, and you think so highly of Chinese traditional medicine, maybe it's not so bad for you.  (I await the imminent No True Scotsman fallacy.)


If you read one of my prior posts, the majority of chinese traditional medicine practitioners are not competent. Those are the ones who would be ok with eating animal fats. I wouldn't take advice from them. They have never cured anyone before. I would listen to the roughly 30% of them in China who know what they are talking about or the roughly 5% in the U.S. who know what they are talking about.

If you read this entire thread, there are people who have been suggesting that grains are bad for you while butter is good for you. Well put it in perspective. If you could only eat one the rest of your life, would you choose a stick of butter or grains? Even before I became conscious about my diet, I always knew grains were healthier than butter.

Also, if you had read this thread, you would have realized that it was another poster who suggested I would not live if I didn't eat fat.

By the way, in another thread, I've given you the information for you to follow up on this topic. I have yet to hear a response from you.

----------


## DanConway

> If you read one of my prior posts, the majority of chinese traditional medicine practitioners are not competent. Those are the ones who would be ok with eating animal fats. I wouldn't take advice from them. They have never cured anyone before. I would listen to the roughly 30% of them in China who know what they are talking about or the roughly 5% in the U.S. who know what they are talking about.
> 
> If you read this entire thread, there are people who have been suggesting that grains are bad for you while butter is good for you. Well put it in perspective. If you could only eat one the rest of your life, would you choose a stick of butter or grains? Even before I became conscious about my diet, I always knew grains were healthier than butter.


Come on, that's an argument unworthy of this forum.  If you could only purchase one in the rest of your life, would it be water or diamonds?  There is such a thing as marginal value.  For the record, I don't think grains are necessarily bad for you, so I disagree with those people.  But they're not necessary to a healthy human diet, on which humans can reproduce indefinitely without their descendants degenerating in health (many Pacific Island cultures never developed grain crops, instead relying on starchy root crops like cassava, for instance.).  I'm not so sure about animal fat (from either dairy products or animals, including fish).  Every long-term healthy culture I'm aware of has used some form of it.





> Also, if you had read this thread, you would have realized that it was another poster who suggested I would not live if I didn't eat fat.


Why would you not eat fat?  Similarly, I don't get the whole thread: why would someone "go raw vegan" as in committing not to eat anything but the relatively limited amount of foods that fit into that category indefinitely?  It may have some value as a short-term cleanse, but why would anyone want to cripple their diet that way?  There's not the least bit of evidence that it's necessary, or beneficial, for a long and healthy life.




> By the way, in another thread, I've given you the information for you to follow up on this topic. I have yet to hear a response from you.


Looking at one example now: dietary suggestions for gout at http://acupuncturetsoi.com/AT/Gout.html .  The main part is to avoid high-purine foods, which include both red meat and whole grains, but do not include poultry, and only include some fish.

Here's another.  What to do for depression? http://acupuncturetsoi.com/AT/Depression.html "Balanced diet, avoid excessive meats and carbohydrates food"  Excessive meats, not all meats.  And avoid excessive carbohydrates as well, which you'll likely be taking in if you try to avoid all fat.  I don't know what he means when he says "excessive", but if he meant "avoid all meat" as you seem to think, he would have said it.

I'm not seeing "all meat is bad for everyone all the time."

So.  Did you read the two chapters (or any) of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration that I recommended?  It's not like we had an agreement, but I was kind of hoping you would.  Besides, here's a thought.  Ayurveda is a similarly ancient medical tradition that considers ghee (clarified butter) the most perfect single food (and no, it's not saying that's all you need -- in fact, it emphasizes diversity of diet.)

I'm not seeing the anti-meat dogmatism you claimed, even on a site you yourself recommended.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So today has been my first day trying to go raw vegan again. I finally found out the best kind of raw vegan. It's Low Fat High Carb raw vegan. 30bananasaday.com has a ton of info, the website is run by athletes who compete in foot races, cycling, ect., Harley has been doing this for over a decade, so it's not something detrimental to your health, that's for sure. The science behind it all makes sense and they don't try to sell you any magic powders, supplements, or high dollar garbage, the only thing they sell are books, all under $20 and personal training.
> 
> I've tried Raw Vegan before, didn't like it, all the food was too "heavy", so I quit and my health plunged dramatically. After a year, I finally figured out why, I was eating tons of nuts and olive oil and grains. With the LFHC style, I don't feel weighed down at all by this fat and garbage, plus I give my body the good calories it needs.
> 
> I currently weigh 265, I hope to lose about 100 or more pounds.
> 
> If you want to know more about this diet and the scientific FACTS (not just mumbo jumbo made up by people trying to sell you chems) please visit:
> 
> www.30bananasaday.com
> ...


Unless you plan on being a pro runner, I wouldn't plan on losing too far over 100 pounds.  If you weigh less than 165, that's usually pretty skinny for a normal guy.  If you want to be a runner, though, those athletes can sometimes be 120 pounds and in excellent physical shape, depending on height and build, of course, but if you want to replace that fat with muscle, you're going to have a hard time staying under 160.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The vegan diet presents a grave risk of developing a fatty acid imbalance and a b-12 deficiency.  If you insist on being truly vegan, you are going to need to slurp down some serious quantitites of algae to get your omega-3 needs met.  I don't even know how you will get your b-12.


There are all kinds of oils, such as flaxseed, that can meet good fat needs, but B12 really shouldn't be that hard to keep up.  All plants should get it from the soil, but unfortunately, modern farming methods have depleted the soil to where B12 in plants is quite rare.  You can still get it in organics and in yeast, but if you are really concerned about your B12 intake, just supplement it with enriched rice milk or some whole food supplements.  However, Acala is right that being vegan is not easy at all.  Beside the normal urges to eat things that are unhealthy, you really have to know what you're doing to eat raw vegan.  It can definitely work and will vastly improve your health if done right, but in the modern world of packaged foods, good food is hard to come by so it can be costly.  Bollocks on the fatty acid "imbalance" though.  There are lots of nut, seed, and plant sources for the right fatty acids.  

I have personally had great experiences as a vegan athlete.  It was hard, at first, to get everything I needed, but you start to learn your own ways and there are lots of places that you can find recipes.  Ezekiel bread can also serve as a nutritious way to diversify your diet and make things like hummus sandwiches.  As I was saying, however, I was an athlete when I first tried it and I remember one race where I literally could not get tired from running.  I ran a personal fastest time that day and was very surprised that I was literally incapable of tiring myself out.  I had boundless energy.  

Anyway, I wish you luck on the diet.  I don't know if the carbs are so important as is the acidity vs. alkalinity of the foods you eat.  You want to have a slightly alkaline pH and eat foods that maintain that balance, which basically eliminates milk, gluten, and meat products.  I used to follow a book called the Health Foods Sourcebook which was written by a doctor who has many patients who have been cured of cancer.  I would highly recommend it.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> There are all kinds of oils, such as flaxseed, that can meet good fat needs, but B12 really shouldn't be that hard to keep up.  All plants should get it from the soil, but unfortunately, modern farming methods have depleted the soil to where B12 in plants is quite rare.  You can still get it in organics and in yeast, but if you are really concerned about your B12 intake, just supplement it with enriched rice milk or some whole food supplements.  However, Acala is right that being vegan is not easy at all.  Beside the normal urges to eat things that are unhealthy, you really have to know what you're doing to eat raw vegan.  It can definitely work and will vastly improve your health if done right, but in the modern world of packaged foods, good food is hard to come by so it can be costly.  Bollocks on the fatty acid "imbalance" though.  There are lots of nut, seed, and plant sources for the right fatty acids.  
> 
> I have personally had great experiences as a vegan athlete.  It was hard, at first, to get everything I needed, but you start to learn your own ways and there are lots of places that you can find recipes.  Ezekiel bread can also serve as a nutritious way to diversify your diet and make things like hummus sandwiches.  As I was saying, however, I was an athlete when I first tried it and I remember one race where I literally could not get tired from running.  I ran a personal fastest time that day and was very surprised that I was literally incapable of tiring myself out.  I had boundless energy.  
> 
> Anyway, I wish you luck on the diet.  I don't know if the carbs are so important as is the acidity vs. alkalinity of the foods you eat.  You want to have a slightly alkaline pH and eat foods that maintain that balance, which basically eliminates milk, gluten, and *meat products.*  I used to follow a book called the Health Foods Sourcebook which was written by a doctor who has many patients who have been cured of cancer.  I would highly recommend it.


Meats generally don't negatively effect ph.  There are a lot of factors that can affect this (like lifestyle), so you should do your homework first.  Interesting thread.  I need more energy than a vegan diet provides, but more power to y'all who are interested in it.  (Veggies are good for everyone and most people need to eat more)

HB.

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## tttppp

> Come on, that's an argument unworthy of this forum.  If you could only purchase one in the rest of your life, would it be water or diamonds?  There is such a thing as marginal value.  For the record, I don't think grains are necessarily bad for you, so I disagree with those people.  But they're not necessary to a healthy human diet, on which humans can reproduce indefinitely without their descendants degenerating in health (many Pacific Island cultures never developed grain crops, instead relying on starchy root crops like cassava, for instance.).  I'm not so sure about animal fat (from either dairy products or animals, including fish).  Every long-term healthy culture I'm aware of has used some form of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you not eat fat?  Similarly, I don't get the whole thread: why would someone "go raw vegan" as in committing not to eat anything but the relatively limited amount of foods that fit into that category indefinitely?  It may have some value as a short-term cleanse, but why would anyone want to cripple their diet that way?  There's not the least bit of evidence that it's necessary, or beneficial, for a long and healthy life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you call him up and ask him, he'll say all animal fats are bad for you, a little bit of plant fats are ok for you, red meat is bad for you, chicken fish and turkey are ok for you, and carbohydrates are ok for you (you can either exercise to burn off the fat or just limit your intake of carbs).

I never argued for no meat, I said no meat fat. For example, he'd tell you chicken, fish, or turkey are ok for you without the skin.

Business wise, he's very unorganized. If you go to him, he doesn't give you a handout explaining the diet to you, and he doesn't give everyone a big speech on all the details of the diet when you first get there. You basically learn it piece by piece over a course of time. I had to ask a few questions before I figured out exactly what he wanted me to eat and what I couldn't eat. If you asked him a few questions on diet, you would know exactly what you can and cannot eat. One thing that he is very clear on is that butter is bad for you. Like I said before, he butchered his website. If you ask him questions yourself, you'll get a much clearer answer.

If this guy you mentioned is claiming to have cured people, then I'd read up on him. 

I'm glad you admitted grains are ok for you. I really don't know where people are getting that grains are bad for you.

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## DanConway

> If you call him up and ask him, he'll say all animal fats are bad for you, a little bit of plant fats are ok for you, red meat is bad for you, chicken fish and turkey are ok for you, and carbohydrates are ok for you (you can either exercise to burn off the fat or just limit your intake of carbs).


Well, now you're saying limit your fat, and limit your carbs.  Is there anything I don't have to limit?  Humans need one or the other (in my experience, I need substantial amounts of both); rabbit starvation is bad news.




> I never argued for no meat, I said no meat fat. For example, he'd tell you chicken, fish, or turkey are ok for you without the skin.


Fish fat isn't concentrated in the skin.  Besides, people all over the world have traditionally eaten all parts of the animal -- skin, meat, organs, then boil the bones for stock (if anything got neglected, it would be the lean meat).  Throwing away the skin is a modern practice (one I sure enjoyed my parents practicing when I was younger, as they'd pass it along to me instead).




> Business wise, he's very unorganized. If you go to him, he doesn't give you a handout explaining the diet to you, and he doesn't give everyone a big speech on all the details of the diet when you first get there. You basically learn it piece by piece over a course of time. I had to ask a few questions before I figured out exactly what he wanted me to eat and what I couldn't eat. If you asked him a few questions on diet, you would know exactly what you can and cannot eat. One thing that he is very clear on is that butter is bad for you. Like I said before, he butchered his website. If you ask him questions yourself, you'll get a much clearer answer.


If his website is so terrible and misleading as to what he actually believes, why did you even bother directing me to it?




> If this guy you mentioned is claiming to have cured people, then I'd read up on him.


Price was able to cure cavities in children and often knocked off other conditions as well in the process.  He describes his protocol later in NaPD, after many chapters detailing various isolated groups living on traditional diets who exhibited negligible prevalence of cavities and other diseases of civilization.




> I'm glad you admitted grains are ok for you. I really don't know where people are getting that grains are bad for you.


Well, they certainly wouldn't work in a raw vegan diet.  Grains need to go through a good deal of preparation to be edible by humans.

As it happens, I'm not currently eating grains, but that's for my own reasons -- I have reason to believe that grains are bad for me at the current time, but not that they're bad for all people at all times.  The latter is just empirically false.

P.S. I noticed you had nothing to say about the nature of Chinese traditional cuisine and how it conflicts with your claims about Chinese traditional medicine.

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## tttppp

> Well, now you're saying limit your fat, and limit your carbs.  Is there anything I don't have to limit?  Humans need one or the other (in my experience, I need substantial amounts of both); rabbit starvation is bad news.
> 
> 
> 
> Fish fat isn't concentrated in the skin.  Besides, people all over the world have traditionally eaten all parts of the animal -- skin, meat, organs, then boil the bones for stock (if anything got neglected, it would be the lean meat).  Throwing away the skin is a modern practice (one I sure enjoyed my parents practicing when I was younger, as they'd pass it along to me instead).
> 
> 
> 
> If his website is so terrible and misleading as to what he actually believes, why did you even bother directing me to it?
> ...


Chinese people tend to base a higher percentage of their diet on vegetables and rice, as opposed to the U.S. where meals center around a slab of meat which is usually pretty fatty and dairy products which are horrible for you. So the Chinese do have a better diet than us, and are much healthier than us. Many Chinese don't eat as healthy as they should, but their diet still is vastly superior to ours. That said, lets not follow the people who are not experts in diet. Focus on the people who heal people for a living and do know exactly what we can eat.

I only directed you to his website to show you how they are able to accurately diagnose people by looking at your tongue, which therefore gives him the ability to determine what you can and cannot eat through experience alone. Also, you have the option to follow up with him and get more information from him regarding your diet. There are some great things on his website, he explains how he can cure all these diseases, which demonstrates his brilliance, but he is not very organized business wise which you can see on his website. He can explain things more clearly than he does. 

Carbs are ok as long as you are not gaining weight. If you don gain weight, you can either eat less carbs or exercise more. The choice is up to you.

Also, does your guy cure cancer or very severe diseases?

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## pcgame

Vegan diets are silly.  They reduce testosterone.  You need foods that have cholesterol.

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