# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  I am building a wood fired (pizza) oven.

## luctor-et-emergo

I have been making pizza's weekly for over a decade. It all started when I was in Southern France and had the best pizza ever. We returned there a few years in a row so I have had a good sample of them... They were really good. I've been trying to make the same pizza's but I always lacked one thing, a wood fired oven. I can make pretty nice pizza's using a pizza stone in an electric oven but it simply takes too long to make a bunch for a party.

So I decided to build one for myself. I've been reading into construction details for over a year (some nighttime hours here and there). I'm not the kind of person that buys a kit. So I'm taking the hard route of designing and building everything myself. Since this oven is big and I like my precious space I figured it would be most economic if I were to make it an octagon. The actual oven inside is round off course but the base is an octagon. Makes things more interesting though.

I started work about 2 weeks ago and I poured the foundations and slab yesterday. Turned out really nice. Now I have to wait a few days before I can get the form off the concrete. 

I have made some pictures during the building process so far. Is anyone interested to see the building process ?

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## amy31416

> I have made some pictures during the building process so far. Is anyone interested to see the building process ?



ME!!!

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## tod evans

Of course!

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## Suzanimal

> I have been making pizza's weekly for over a decade. It all started when I was in Southern France and had the best pizza ever. We returned there a few years in a row so I have had a good sample of them... They were really good. I've been trying to make the same pizza's but I always lacked one thing, a wood fired oven. I can make pretty nice pizza's using a pizza stone in an electric oven but it simply takes too long to make a bunch for a party.
> 
> So I decided to build one for myself. I've been reading into construction details for over a year (some nighttime hours here and there). I'm not the kind of person that buys a kit. So I'm taking the hard route of designing and building everything myself. Since this oven is big and I like my precious space I figured it would be most economic if I were to make it an octagon. The actual oven inside is round off course but the base is an octagon. Makes things more interesting though.
> 
> I started work about 2 weeks ago and I poured the foundations and slab yesterday. Turned out really nice. Now I have to wait a few days before I can get the form off the concrete. 
> 
> I have made some pictures during the building process so far. Is anyone interested to see the building process ?


Awesome, I would love to see your work.

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## Root

Oh yeah!

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## Bryan

Yes, please share. Are you building a Pompeii spec-ed oven?

Long story short, research was done in Pompeii on all the ovens that were unearthed and it was claimed that they were basically all designed the same with "perfect" cooking characteristics. The construction was analyzed and reverse engineered which resulted in a "Pompeii oven" plan being published. You can download the plans for free (but need to provide an e-mail address) here: http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_ov...peii_oven.html

The Pompeii oven is round inside so you may being doing this.. ?

Some of what they write:



> Wood-fired brick ovens and pizza have been with us since the dawn of civilization. Both have been discovered in the excavations of virtually every ancient civilization, with the brick oven reaching its modern form in ancient Rome. The brick ovens uncovered in ancient Pompeii and Naples are in wonderful shape, and could start baking today with only minor renovations -- the Pompeii Oven is named in their honor. When you have a minute, take a look at our ancient Pompeii Oven Photographs.
> 
> In modern Italy, the basic Pompeii Oven design is used to build the brick ovens you see in pizzerias and private homes and gardens. The oven is great for cooking pizza, roasts, focaccia and bread. It heats up quickly and is efficient at holding the high heats required for cooking the perfect three-minute pizza. The Pompeii Oven is also very efficient with wood fuel and at holding heat. If you are interesting in reading more about the theory behind the Pompeii Oven design, read our Why Round page.
> 
> There are literally millions of round wood-fired ovens in Italy, putting you in very good company should you decide to build a Pompeii Oven at your home. The brick oven is as common in Italy as the BBQ, and our goal is to bring these great ovens into the American and British mainstream. Today, thousands of Pompeii Ovens have been built in America, Britain, Mexico, Belgium, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Brazil, the Philippines, France, Sweden, the Virgin Islands, and Thailand -- and more Pompeii Ovens are being built every day.

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## ClydeCoulter

Yes, here also!  I would love to see it in progress.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> ME!!!





> Of course!





> Awesome, I would love to see your work.





> Oh yeah!


I think that answers my question ! Thanks.. I'm pretty sore from making concrete all day yesterday so I'll have a bit of a slow start with posting.





> Yes, please share. Are you building a Pompeii spec-ed oven?
> 
> Long story short, research was done in Pompeii on all the ovens that were unearthed and it was claimed that they were basically all designed the same with "perfect" cooking characteristics. The construction was analyzed and reverse engineered which resulted in a "Pompeii oven" plan being published. You can download the plans for free (but need to provide an e-mail address) here: http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_ov...peii_oven.html
> 
> The Pompeii oven is round inside so you may being doing this.. ?
> 
> Some of what they write:


Yes I am building a traditional oven, one where the dome supports itself. This is not a semi-circle but rather a parabolic shape. The actual shape is up to preference. Higher arches are supposedly better for all-round cooking while lower domes are better for (Neapolitan) pizza. I haven't yet figured out the formula for the parabolic shape I'm going to use but with these basic guidelines in mind I think I'm going to aim for something in the middle. Mostly because with a lower dome comes a lower oven entrance which limits the size of things I can put in there.. A true Neapolitan oven has a 10" or lower oven entrance which makes it difficult to do roasts. A lot of consideration has gone into the design, in the end I have to make a couple of choices. I'm not going the route of perfection everywhere simply because it's too time consuming or costly. What I am trying to get is durability, something that cooks well and looks good next to the house.

Thanks for the quick replies ! In the meantime I'll try to get some pics uploaded.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Yes, here also!  I would love to see it in progress.


Thanks! You're all invited for pizza when it's finished. Hell of a trip though.  

Btw, Bryan, FornoBravo is a great resource. I'm not a member there but a lot of my reading has been on those forums. Especially regarding the high temp mortar. Although, I'm not going to do what most are doing there.

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## KCIndy

Pics!!    

And don't forget to document the first pizza as it gets made.

Now I'm hungry.

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## klamath

I am in the planning stages of doing this myself. I am somewhat torn on whether I want to build one with the fire in the oven itself or one with the firebox below and around the oven. It seems that the fire in the oven itself would be somewhat inefficient in the amount of wood it takes but I could be wrong. If you get yours done before I start mine let me know about the wood consumption.
I want to build mine out of local rocks, mortar and clay with a wood fired grill along side it built in the same way. It will be next to my root cellar, kitchen and walk in freezer. Pictures of the construction here.http://s783.photobucket.com/user/kla...?sort=6&page=1

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## klamath

> Yes, please share. Are you building a Pompeii spec-ed oven?
> 
> Long story short, research was done in Pompeii on all the ovens that were unearthed and it was claimed that they were basically all designed the same with "perfect" cooking characteristics. The construction was analyzed and reverse engineered which resulted in a "Pompeii oven" plan being published. You can download the plans for free (but need to provide an e-mail address) here: http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_ov...peii_oven.html
> 
> The Pompeii oven is round inside so you may being doing this.. ?
> 
> Some of what they write:


Thanks to Luctor for starting this thread and thanks for this link Bryan, as it kind of answers my question on efficiency.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Pics!!    
> 
> And don't forget to document the first pizza as it gets made.
> 
> Now I'm hungry.


I'm hungry as well, no pizza's today. I'm making spring rolls and spicy tomato soup. 




> I am in the planning stages of doing this myself. I am somewhat torn on whether I want to build one with the fire in the oven itself or one with the firebox below and around the oven. It seems that the fire in the oven itself would be somewhat inefficient in the amount of wood it takes but I could be wrong. If you get yours done before I start mine let me know about the wood consumption.
> I want to build mine out of local rocks, mortar and clay with a wood fired grill along side it built in the same way. It will be next to my root cellar, kitchen and walk in freezer. Pictures of the construction here.http://s783.photobucket.com/user/kla...?sort=6&page=1


Nice work on your homestead ! I wish I had space for a walk in freezer. 

I would go with a 'normal' oven where you light the fire on your floor. Things get rather complicated when you want to duct 1000 degree air. You'll get more cracks from expanding/shrinking masonry. 

About fuel consumption, I obviously haven't tested this but I am told that more insulation is better. Sounds good to me. I'll be adding plenty. 

What I do know about fuel consumption is that you can make two types of ovens. One that you fire each time you use it, and one that's continuously hot. Both may use the same amount of wood on a day to day basis but the one that stays hot all the time has a lot more stone in it (which stores heat). Therefore it takes longer to heat it up. Any brick oven is better to use a few days in a row as it stores most of the energy overnight in a well insulated oven.

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## klamath

> I'm hungry as well, no pizza's today. I'm making spring rolls and spicy tomato soup. 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice work on your homestead ! I wish I had space for a walk in freezer. 
> 
> I would go with a 'normal' oven where you light the fire on your floor. Things get rather complicated when you want to duct 1000 degree air. You'll get more cracks from expanding/shrinking masonry. 
> 
> About fuel consumption, I obviously haven't tested this but I am told that more insulation is better. Sounds good to me. I'll be adding plenty. 
> ...


I love tough sourdough French bread but it requires  the heavy kneading. I am watching out for a heavy Hobart dough mixer that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Beings that I plan to bake a large batch and then freeze it, the heat holding design seems to make sense.
I know what you mean about the Refractory material. A few years back I built a high temp foundry for melting bronze and iron and it can be unforgiving.

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## Schifference

What do you expect this oven to cost you in materials?

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## luctor-et-emergo

> I love tough sourdough French bread but it requires  the heavy kneading. I am watching out for a heavy Hobart dough mixer that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Beings that I plan to bake a large batch and then freeze it, the heat holding design seems to make sense.
> I know what you mean about the Refractory material. A few years back I built a high temp foundry for melting bronze and iron and it can be unforgiving.


You sound just like me... I had a fellow forum member mail me a HAGO siphon nozzle so I can melt metal. Nice thing but I found out afterwards that European plumbing parts don't fit american ones, still looking for a way to fix it, not a priority at the moment. I am saving up spent cooking oil though.

I always make dough by hand. The biggest batch I have made was 25lbs, I found that this was not too much more work than making 5lbs. Sure it's more mass but I wasn't 5 times as tired when finished. I hate cleaning and I like a clean workspace so a tabletop is more practical for me. 




> What do you expect this oven to cost you in materials?


I have budgeted 2k EUR, but as most things, it will probably go over budget. I'm happy if it's under 2.5k EUR. So far, I'm "out of the ground", I'm on track... Spent about 500 to get the foundation in the ground, that's including phenol coated boards, screws etc. I'm keeping track of what I'm spending on it so at the end I should know.

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## luctor-et-emergo

I managed to upload some pics !

Sawing phenol coated boards, very cheap at 30 EUR a sheet but fine for single use. 


Stack of boards. This was the first project with this new saw.


Almost finished the concrete form here. At the moment it's in it's final place, filled with concrete. 


I'll have to download some more pics from my camera. These were made with my phone.

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## klamath

> I managed to upload some pics !
> 
> Sawing phenol coated boards, very cheap at 30 EUR a sheet but fine for single use. 
> 
> 
> Stack of boards. This was the first project with this new saw.
> 
> 
> Almost finished the concrete form here. At the moment it's in it's final place, filled with concrete. 
> ...


Nice.  I don't know if you are going to use forms to build the parabola but I used a rather simple method to mark the forms for the catenary curve I used on my root cellar roof. 
On a piece of plywood I marked out the base width of the arch and how high I wanted it then I stood the plywood on edge with the base side up. Then from two nails driven into the base width marks I hung a strand of small bead chain so that the bottom of the loop just hung to the mark I made for height of the arch.  A chain hangs in a near perfect catenary curve so I carefully took a pencil and marked a dashed line along the bottom of the chain. Afterwards I marked it in a solid line and cut along the line with a saber saw.

 Don't feel bad about the US/EU standards difference. The difference caused a billion dollar mars lander to decelerate to late  My first foundry burner I built myself and it was designed to burn waste oil. It started on propane and then went to a forced air/waste oil combustion after the foundry was heated up however what I didn't realize when people were talking about waste oil they were talking about waste cooking oil.... not used crankcase oil... That thing could belch clouds of *BLACK* smoke until I got the air oil mixture right.  It would melt 18 pounds of bronze though. I have since just gone with making self aspirated propane burners as I don't have a ready source of cheap waste COOKING oil. It is a lot cleaner and convenient to use.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Nice.  I don't know if you are going to use forms to build the parabola but I used a rather simple method to mark the forms for the catenary curve I used on my root cellar roof. 
> On a piece of plywood I marked out the base width of the arch and how high I wanted it then I stood the plywood on edge with the base side up. Then from two nails driven into the base width marks I hung a strand of small bead chain so that the bottom of the loop just hung to the mark I made for height of the arch.  A chain hangs in a near perfect catenary curve so I carefully took a pencil and marked a dashed line along the bottom of the chain. Afterwards I marked it in a solid line and cut along the line with a saber saw.


I haven't quite thought of how I'm going to draw the parabola, it's easy using CAD. I just plug in the numbers and the line appears. Your method is probably the easiest. I'll see how I'm going to solve that when time comes. First I have to do some regular masonry work. 

This is the initial design, which I made for the foundation, what's on top isn't yet fully designed, I only made the drawing to know the relative size of things so I could plan the foundation/slab. The roof is just a line... 





> Don't feel bad about the US/EU standards difference. The difference caused a billion dollar mars lander to decelerate to late  My first foundry burner I built myself and it was designed to burn waste oil. It started on propane and then went to a forced air/waste oil combustion after the foundry was heated up however what I didn't realize when people were talking about waste oil they were talking about waste cooking oil.... not used crankcase oil... That thing could belch clouds of *BLACK* smoke until I got the air oil mixture right.  It would melt 18 pounds of bronze though. I have since just gone with making self aspirated propane burners as I don't have a ready source of cheap waste COOKING oil. It is a lot cleaner and convenient to use.


In winter I burn petroleum for heat, which I get in 20L/5gal containers. They are trash so I fill them with cooking oil. Several people save up their fryer oil for me. Overall I get a couple gallons a month, as I'm not burning it it's starting to take space. I have filtered it and it looks pretty clear, smells very spicy though. All I need to be in business really is 2 couplers from thread to pipe... But as you might imagine, I have other things going on. 
I have burned some of the fryer oil, I wouldn't say it burns without smell, the smell isn't nice either. Not much smoke but I think it's best to get the flame as hot as possible, the smell does not come across as very healthy to me.

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## VIDEODROME

Cool.  

So what is the result supposed to be like?  I used to do commercial driving and when I was around New Jersey or New York and had some pizzas cooked with ovens like what your describing. It was a really good basic Thin Crust.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Cool.  
> 
> So what is the result supposed to be like?  I used to do commercial driving and when I was around New Jersey or New York and had some pizzas cooked with ovens like what your describing. It was a really good basic Thin Crust.


I don't like deep dish pizza's unless you call them meat pies, then I'm fine with them. I don't always make the thinnest crust pizza, don't get me wrong, it's never more than 1/4 inch thick. It's preference based, I have made large (20inch) pizzas for years that had very thin crusts and very few toppings but a lot of herbs. Lately I've cut down on the herbs and number of ingredients, I made my pizzas smaller and a slightly thicker crust. Like I said, it's all preference. I'm not afraid to try new things but nothing outrageous. 

Visually, this is about what I like to see (not my pic):

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## donnay

That is so cool!

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## Carson

I'm hearing drawing a parabola and I'm thinking two nails and a string like half way down this page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse

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## luctor-et-emergo

> That is so cool!


Thanks !




> I'm hearing drawing a parabola and I'm thinking two nails and a string like half way down this page.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse


Yeah that's another way. I am designing on the computer so I either have to make a full size print or I have to recreate what I drew on the computer by using either method. Usually I think about how I'm going to do something and I find out half way in that it's not practical so I'm not going to speculate too much here. 

I have never built an oven before, so it's learn-as-I-go for me. I have done masonry, carpentry and CAD design. I know a bit about structural analysis and I have an affinity for making things but by all means, I'm not not a trained professional. 

If anyone would like the drawings with measurements, I'll be happy to pm those. They're metric though.

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## tod evans

Drawing a full scale segment of an ellipse is quite simple with three nails and a piece of string....

I'm cheating with a link but the cut-n-paste is less effort...

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/alg...-of-an-ellipse

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## Carson

> Thanks !
> 
> 
> Yeah that's another way. I am designing on the computer so I either have to make a full size print or I have to recreate what I drew on the computer by using either method. Usually I think about how I'm going to do something and I find out half way in that it's not practical so I'm not going to speculate too much here. 
> 
> I have never built an oven before, so it's learn-as-I-go for me. I have done masonry, carpentry and CAD design. I know a bit about structural analysis and I have an affinity for making things but by all means, I'm not not a trained professional. 
> 
> If anyone would like the drawings with measurements, I'll be happy to pm those. They're metric though.



I also just flashed on a documentary of the building of a large doomed structure. Someone was doing something like rebuilding it or something. He found to old original builders guide markers. They had some anchor points like the two nails and as the built and elliptical dome(?) they could stretch a line up and know exactly were to set their bricks.

It wasn't that long ago that it aired. I can't remember if it was more complex or something just that simple but they were able to work right up the dome as it closed in.

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## VIDEODROME

> I don't like deep dish pizza's unless you call them meat pies, then I'm fine with them. I don't always make the thinnest crust pizza, don't get me wrong, it's never more than 1/4 inch thick. It's preference based, I have made large (20inch) pizzas for years that had very thin crusts and very few toppings but a lot of herbs. Lately I've cut down on the herbs and number of ingredients, I made my pizzas smaller and a slightly thicker crust. Like I said, it's all preference. I'm not afraid to try new things but nothing outrageous. 
> 
> Visually, this is about what I like to see (not my pic):


Yup that looks like thinner crust pizza I've had in New Jersey.  I'm not sure if it was Wood Fired, but it was a very large stone oven.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Drawing a full scale segment of an ellipse is quite simple with three nails and a piece of string....
> 
> I'm cheating with a link but the cut-n-paste is less effort...
> 
> https://www.khanacademy.org/math/alg...-of-an-ellipse


Posting here is already paying back big time ! I am amongst great people. Thanks.




> I also just flashed on a documentary of the building of a large doomed structure. Someone was doing something like rebuilding it or something. He found to old original builders guide markers. They had some anchor points like the two nails and as the built and elliptical dome(?) they could stretch a line up and know exactly were to set their bricks.
> 
> It wasn't that long ago that it aired. I can't remember if it was more complex or something just that simple but they were able to work right up the doom as it closed in.


Complex things aren't as difficult as they seem sometimes. I had trouble with algebra because they used to have such weird ways of teaching that letters can be numbers. Everything fell in it's place when I was like "well that seems logical". 

Domes are usually not hemispherical because that's not self supporting, the trick with parabolic/elliptical domes is that they are self supporting. The load from the top section is carried down all the way through the dome into the base below. This means that the structure is very strong, the best example of this is the *Pantheon* in Rome. It's the oldest and still the largest unreinforced concrete dome ever built. I've been there, it's big.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Yup that looks like thinner crust pizza I've had in New Jersey.  I'm not sure if it was Wood Fired, but it was a very large stone oven.


You don't taste a real smokiness in the pizza when it's wood fired, the difference is mostly temperature and authenticity. There are electric ovens that get up to the same temperature although I think they're still rare. 

The biggest difference is that in an electric oven at 480-500F it takes 8 minutes to bake a pizza and in a wood fired oven at 700-750F it takes only a minute, at most a minute and a half. My oven is going to be about 40inches diameter which means 2 nicely sized pizzas could fit in at the same time. I'm not able to make 2 every other minute, so it's large enough. When you're thinking about a business there's a commercial advantage in being able to serve within 2 minutes of ordering. I'd think.

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## mad cow

> Parthenon in *Rome*


???

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## luctor-et-emergo

> ???


 You got me there. 
I have got a good excuse though, I'm still dead from mixing concrete yesterday. Will you forgive my mistake... Of course the Parthenon is in Greece. Pantheon... These things get confusing when you're tired. I should be ashamed of myself though, I had both latin and greek in high school.

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## Carson

> Posting here is already paying back big time ! I am amongst great people. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Complex things aren't as difficult as they seem sometimes. I had trouble with algebra because they used to have such weird ways of teaching that letters can be numbers. Everything fell in it's place when I was like "well that seems logical". 
> 
> Domes are usually not hemispherical because that's not self supporting, the trick with parabolic/elliptical domes is that they are self supporting. The load from the top section is carried down all the way through the dome into the base below. This means that the structure is very strong, the best example of this is the *Pantheon* in Rome. It's the oldest and still the largest unreinforced concrete dome ever built. I've been there, it's big.



Yes a true dome is your strongest.

It concerned me a little at first you talking about a parabola shape in your pizza oven.

Maybe the documentary I'm thinking of was a dome. Then all you would need was a fixed eye loop at your starting level to stretch a line from to know just where to mortar your brick. 

I'm pretty sure it was one anchor point more complex though.

If the walls of the oven are elliptic you could use two screws and a sting to know where to set your bricks. As the wall arose you would have to raise the level of your guide screws with the level of the walls. Once you reached where you wanted to start your dome you would need to set two eye bolts at the level the dome started and use them with a line to set bricks.

The documentary was a huge dome. I think maybe the grout could have been what made the angle changes you needed in the ellipse. Your going to have very large bricks scale wise and the angles may be a problem.

Another thought came to mind. Maybe calculate out our parabola oven to a size and shape that excepted two spherical domes.That might look kind of sexy on a pizza oven but I'm not sure how it would draw.

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## amy31416

> Thanks! You're all invited for pizza when it's finished. Hell of a trip though.  
> 
> Btw, Bryan, FornoBravo is a great resource. I'm not a member there but a lot of my reading has been on those forums. Especially regarding the high temp mortar. Although, I'm not going to do what most are doing there.


Stick to it! I'm planning on taking the kid to Europe in the next 7-10 years. I've only been to Austria, Spain and England, but there's many more places I want to go and take her with me. I could even try to bring you some NYC pizzeria yeast--it's allegedly some of the best in the world.

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## Suzanimal

> I love tough sourdough French bread but it requires  the heavy kneading. I am watching out for a *heavy Hobart dough mixer* that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Beings that I plan to bake a large batch and then freeze it, the heat holding design seems to make sense.
> I know what you mean about the Refractory material. A few years back I built a high temp foundry for melting bronze and iron and it can be unforgiving.


Keep your eye out for restaurants and bakeries going out of business, you can buy used equipment pretty reasonably at those sales. You may also want to visit a few used restaurant supply stores and you may be able to negotiate with them. If they have a lot of them make them an offer and carry cash (don't feel weird about asking for a cash price). Good luck finding a Hobart, they're the bomb!

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Yes a true dome is your strongest.
> 
> It concerned me a little at first you talking about a parabola shape in your pizza oven.
> 
> Maybe the documentary I'm thinking of was a dome. Then all you would need was a fixed eye loop at your starting level to stretch a line from to know just where to mortar your brick. 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was one anchor point more complex though.
> 
> If the walls of the oven are elliptic you could use two screws and a sting to know where to set your bricks. As the wall arose you would have to raise the level of your guide screws with the level of the walls. Once you reached where you wanted to start your dome you would need to set two eye bolts at the level the dome started and use them with a line to set bricks.
> ...


For actually constructing the dome people either use forms to use as guides when applying the next course of bricks, or they make a supporting structure that they mortar onto. To get the neatest dome I think the best way is to make a piece of wood that lays on the oven floor, in the center you have a pivoting arm that rotates and can go up and down. It also needs to be extendable, for instance with a bolt. That way you can set it for each course and just lay the bricks up to it. (not my idea.)

I'm not sure where you're going with that last part. Do you mean a dome stretched like a soccer stadium ? Those exist.





> Stick to it! I'm planning on taking the kid to Europe in the next 7-10 years. I've only been to Austria, Spain and England, but there's many more places I want to go and take her with me. I could even try to bring you some NYC pizzeria yeast--it's allegedly some of the best in the world.


There are still a couple places in Europe that I want to visit. At some point in time I'd like to go to the arctic circle to do a winter survival course. I'm not the type that goes sightseeing . Austria has been one of my favorite countries, good food, nice people and lots of fun in summer and winter.

I don't know too much about yeast except there are a lot of different species. So far I've been using mostly bread yeast that's sold at a bakers supply store, I buy it by the pound, it works well and tastes good. But trying yeast that has been used in pizza's for generations would be totally awesome. I don't think we really have any pizza places like that here.

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## Suzanimal

Would you mind posting your pizza dough recipe? Mine ends up tasting like bread, yuk.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Would you mind posting your pizza dough recipe? Mine ends up tasting like bread, yuk.


I have simplified my dough although it takes time to develop. 

The flour I use is classified as 'pastry flour' in the US. 
I use, 2% salt 2% yeast and 65% water. 

I use cool water, I first let the yeast develop a bit in the water for half an hour. No sugar.
Then I add that to the flour and knead it until it looks like a pretty good dough, then add the salt and knead more until it's mixed in well with the dough. 

Then I rest my dough for 15-30 minutes with a damp cloth over it. Then I weigh each piece of dough and roll them into a ball. Then they go into the fridge for 24 hours to develop. It's important that the dough does not get warm during kneading, so don't knead too heavily. This is a cold rise, it's different. 

When you're using the dough let it sit outside the fridge for half an hour to an hour so it gets to the right elasticity. I use semolina to keep my dough from sticking, it adds a bit of texture to the crust without changing the flavor.

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## phill4paul

Subscribed to this thread!

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## Bastiat's The Law

Thread is making me hungry

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## klamath

> Keep your eye out for restaurants and bakeries going out of business, you can buy used equipment pretty reasonably at those sales. You may also want to visit a few used restaurant supply stores and you may be able to negotiate with them. If they have a lot of them make them an offer and carry cash (don't feel weird about asking for a cash price). Good luck finding a Hobart, they're the bomb!


There is kitchenAid and then you have a real machine. Hobart. Thanks for the tips.  Do you have a business or do you just have a Hobart mixer for home use?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Subscribed to this thread!


Cool!




> Thread is making me hungry


Me too. I should make more pizza.


Here are a few more pics from building. 

An outline of what it's going to be. 


Then I dug a trench for the foundation.


Some of the rubble I found while digging, it's absolutely horrible. People have lived here for a couple hundred years and left a mess! A lot of foundation stones from a possible previous house. Didn't take me as long as I feared it would, I was lucky. There was no concrete anywhere.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

When I made the concrete form for my workshop I made it in it's final place. This one being significantly smaller I figured I could make it in one piece and then lower it into my trench. This worked fine and it took a bit of standing on, bashing and pushing to get it straight and level. Luckily there was just enough play on the whole thing to allow for easy adjustment.


Then extra supports were placed to make sure the concrete isn't going to break the mold. Concrete is pretty dense and it can easily break unsupported wooden molds. Since these are all short spans it shouldn't be a big risk. 


Then the rebar is added, because this is an octagon it's pretty difficult to make a very nice rebar cage since I don't have welding equipment. I only had bending irons. I opted to make a U shaped (sort of) piece going all around. Supported by concrete stones below and spacer rings to keep the rebar from touching the mold itself. (there's more rebar coming.)


Bottom section nearly done. The sand at the bottom of the mold was compacted by ramming, the interior mold is held 8 apart inches from the top and bottom of the exterior mold, since the exterior mold comes inward 6 inches at the top the interior mold is at around 105 degrees. These pieces are not even attached to each other, the wooden spacers and concrete stones at the bottom keep them in place. Once the concrete is in, the wooden spacers are removed and they aren't going anywhere. I used as much of the debris I found to backfill the middle part, afterwards I put some rammed sand over it and then a layer of concrete stones, to fill it up some more. The slab itself is 5 inches thick.


Exciting !

----------


## Czolgosz

Great, 3:45am and I'm salivating over pizza pics.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I didn't really make pictures during mixing and casting, it took me a little over 6 hours in total to complete the job. Alone, it would have been much more comfortable doing this job together with someone. But I started so I had to finish.

Here's a giant vibrator to get the air out of the concrete, making it more dense.  


There's the finished slab. It got a little dark by then. Overall it was a long day. A couple hours preparation, 6 hours of hard work and then 2 more hours of cleaning and smoothening out the slab. 


I sure hope hard work pays off. I could use some tasty pizza's when this is done.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I sure hope hard work pays off. I could use some tasty pizza's when this is done.


Nice, pretty soon you'll be enjoying those yummy pizzas and the rest of us will be sitting here all sad and jealous with our broke ass Dominos.

----------


## TonySutton

I had pizza cooked in a cob oven, it was delicious.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Great, 3:45am and I'm salivating over pizza pics.


Whats stopping you ?




> Nice, pretty soon you'll be enjoying those yummy pizzas and the rest of us will be sitting here all sad and jealous with our broke ass Dominos.


Already happening.. ^^




> I had pizza cooked in a cob oven, it was delicious.


Nice, I don't know if there's a big difference between a brick or cob oven, I suspect it's a minor difference.

----------


## Barrex

Love reading these kind of threads.

Are you going to make fire on normal concrete? Material that you are using has to have specific properties regarding heating and expansion.

One night we were around fire that we made on concrete. We drank beer, eat BBQ-ed meat... Then: BOOOM... Sparks went 5 meters high, ember falling all over the place and on us. Everyone got hit. Everyone started running away into dark. Funny as hell.

When we were making fireplace we invited friend of ours that is old (really old) stonemason and he explained why you need special kind of mortar/plaster, bricks and other materials that are suited for high heat and temperature oscillations. Otherwise you will have cracks, bricks coming off or small explosions when concrete has nowhere to expand.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Love reading these kind of threads.
> 
> Are you going to make fire on normal concrete? Material that you are using has to have specific properties regarding heating and expansion.
> 
> One night we were around fire that we made on concrete. We drank beer, eat BBQ-ed meat... Then: BOOOM... Sparks went 5 meters high, ember falling all over the place and on us. Everyone got hit. Everyone started running away into dark. Funny as hell.
> 
> When we were making fireplace we invited friend of ours that is old (really old) stonemason and he explained why you need special kind of mortar/plaster, bricks and other materials that are suited for high heat and temperature oscillations. Otherwise you will have cracks, bricks coming off or small explosions when concrete has nowhere to expand.


Sounds like you did have a lot of fun ! I tried to contain fires with whatever I had as a kid, including concrete. I know what you're talking about with exploding bricks. 

I'll be using firebricks for the actual dome, these can go up to much higher temperatures than the oven will ever attain. At least are supposed to. And the mortar itself, most people mix regular portland cement, sand, lime and fireclay. Fireclay is something you can buy at every hardware store in the US it seems but at none here in Europe. It took me a long time to find what it's called here, finally I found that clay from Limoges (France) is used to bake fireclay sinks, so I guess that's fireclay. I can buy it in 50lb bags (dry powder), a bit more expensive than fireclay in the US but I don't need that much.

 I want to use aluminum cement instead of portland cement because this is better at higher temperatures, it makes a true refractory mortar. It's harder to work with than portland cement and supposedly lime 'sets it off' right away so probably no lime. I'll test out a couple of mixes before I'm committing.

----------


## dannno

That is some dedication, can you make anything else cool in there?

I think I'd rather build a meat smoker, but pizza is pretty tasty..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> That is some dedication, can you make anything else cool in there?
> 
> I think I'd rather build a meat smoker, but pizza is pretty tasty..


I already have a smoker. Fish fits in there too, not just meat...

You can make pretty much anything in a wood fired oven that you can make in a regular oven. But it's specifically good for things that either have to go very long or very hot. Once you fired it and you place the door in there you can keep something hot for maybe even a few days if you wanted.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I broke apart the form yesterday. A very smooth and rock-hard slab of concrete was greeting me. I'm really satisfied with this, it's not the first concrete I've ever mixed but it was A LOT more than I've mixed before. 

It's currently raining a bit, when it has stopped I'll go out to make some pics.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

A pic of the finished concrete foundation, sorry for the image quality, it was made with my phone. 
I'm quite pleased with the result. Overall there's only a little under 1/16th of an inch of an inch of difference from my plans, completely negligible.

----------


## Root

That is gonna be so cool!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> That is some dedication, can you make anything else *cool* in there?
> 
> I think I'd rather build a meat smoker, but pizza is pretty tasty..





> That is gonna be so *cool*!


Hot is the right word !

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I'm ordering the bricks for the exterior masonry work today. As I haven't decided on the final shape of the chimney and front entrance. I'm having a little hard time calculating the amount of bricks I need. 

These bricks, although I'm not 100% sure they're exactly the same but very close.


I have to cut bricks at all the 45 degree angled corners, there are a couple different ways I could do this and I haven't figured out which way I'm going to use. 

1. Overlap bricks as normal and cut off the excess when finished. _I have already decided I'm not going to use this method as I find it a very ugly solution. The face of a brick (especially these) looks totally different. (in this case too perfect)_

2. Cutting all bricks at 22,5 degrees and using one long standing mortar joint, as this is non structural it wouldn't matter and each of the 8 sections of wall would be anchored to the main structure. _This is probably my most likely option although the standing mortar joint is something I don't like, even if it isn't structural. It's not supposed to be there._

3. Cutting bricks at the same 22,5 degree angle as above but epoxying them together to make a sort of squint brick. These could be longer/shorter on each end in order to complete the normal masonry work without long standing joints. _I'll probably end up using this method as I like to make things complicated for myself._ 

That's my small update for today.

I'm just an amateur, so any tips or suggestions are welcome.

----------


## presence

Pidgeon Hole:



Squint:



Many brickyards will sell you stock squints for 45 corners that match your brick if you choose a common brick style.


another option is to overlap:





you can also round your squints with a grinder... couldn't find a quick 45 pic but here's 90:







If you're new to bricklaying... one quick tip that will help quite a bit... before you turn your trowel sideways while holding mortar, give it a quick "shake" this will suction the mortar to the trowel, keeping it from sliding off.



Also... learn to talk to your brick 




It will increase creativity!




For your "one time use purposes" check out a:



You can get one of these and a "throw away" skill circular saw for under $100.  Rig up a thin dishwasher supply line to wet the blade; spray your tool down w/ compressed air and then some PB Blaster or WD-40 between uses; cut slowly as to not burn up your saw.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Pidgeon Hole:
> 
> 
> 
> Squint:
> 
> 
> 
> Many brickyards will sell you stock squints for 45 corners that match your brick if you choose a common brick style.
> ...


There are no squints available for the bricks I picked. It's not a common style but it's the same I used on my workshop. Which is right next to the oven. 

If you look at the bricks I posted, I hope you agree that grinding them down is not going to look really nice. As a personal taste, I don't like either the pigeon holes or the overlap joints. They would look good on a large building but there's only about 30 inches between each corner so it would look pretty busy either way. I'm making it difficult, I know.

----------


## presence

> I'm making it difficult, I know.


Don't get too lost in the details, even the hamton court brick chimneys are stacked on simple squinted corner bases. 



After you cut your squints you can ease the edges to make them look factory with a 4 1/2 grinder and a:




I'd mass produce before I got started laying.  

Another helpful hint is to use some burlap or small piece of plush carpet to brush your bricks clean before the mortar cures.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'd mass produce before I got started laying.


That's a good idea yeah. Cutting every time I meet a corner isn't going to make work progress any faster. It would also help with quality I think. 




> Another helpful hint is to use some burlap or small piece of plush carpet to brush your bricks clean before the mortar cures.


Before or after I scrape out the excess mortar for pointing ?

btw, awesome brickwork in that pic.. I can't imagine making that, not enough function for me to put that much effort into it but I love seeing other people doing that.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Bricks are coming on Wednesday. I'll try to get everything set up tomorrow so I can hopefully cut some bricks wednesday afternoon and have most of the work finished by the end of the week. The actual fun work starts now !

----------


## presence

> Before or after I scrape out the excess mortar for pointing ?


After the mortar has dried but before it has cured.  Use it to brush your bricks clean.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> After the mortar has dried but before it has cured.  Use it to brush your bricks clean.


So like 12 hours after applying ? The first time I made a brick wall I didn't scrape out the mortar, I squeezed it in with a pointing knife right away. Afterwards I used a brush, like you use to clean the floor with. And I tried to scrape off the excess bits, it left nasty white stains. This is when I learned that pointing is done with mortar with no extra lime. 

I guess I did the brushing a bit too early too. Dry for mortar is a bit relative as I have learned to keep it moist until it has hardened. I guess it should be hard enough to tap it so it doesn't move but brittle enough so all the bits and pieces fall off ?

----------


## Suzanimal

I had pizza for dinner. I've been craving it since you started this thread.

----------


## tod evans

> I had pizza for dinner. I've been craving it since you started this thread.


Doesn't count unless you made it from scratch!

----------


## Barrex

> A pic of the finished concrete foundation, sorry for the image quality, it was made with my phone. 
> I'm quite pleased with the result. Overall there's only a little under 1/16th of an inch of an inch of difference from my plans, completely negligible.


Oh... you are making it completely on the ground? Pizza ovens are usually elevated.

----------


## amy31416

> Doesn't count unless you made it from scratch!


What does that even mean anymore--do I have to grind my own wheat? Make the oven? Grow the tomatoes and milk a buffalo to make the cheese?

----------


## Suzanimal

> Doesn't count unless you made it from scratch!


I really wanted to, I was looking forward to trying luctor's crust recipe but I just couldn't. I felt like crap yesterday (I had a medical procedure done yesterday am) called the Pizza Hut and paid for delivery.




> What does that even mean anymore--do I have to grind my own wheat? Make the oven? Grow the tomatoes and milk a buffalo to make the cheese?


LOL

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I had pizza for dinner. I've been craving it since you started this thread.


Hah, I also had pizza for dinner yesterday. It was a leftover pizza from the day before.. I even forget when I made pizza. Not a big event here, sorry. 




> Doesn't count unless you made it from scratch!


Agreed. But that goes for all food. 




> Oh... you are making it completely on the ground? Pizza ovens are usually elevated.


No, no, no, this is just the foundation.  You'll be amazed by the amount of stuff that will still get piled on this slab of concrete. Overall a few tons of stone is going on top. The floor that you're looking at won't be for making a fire but for wood storage. 





> What does that even mean anymore--do I have to grind my own wheat? Make the oven? Grow the tomatoes and milk a buffalo to make the cheese?


I think making the dough, sauce and chopping everything up would qualify as homemade ? I don't think you have to grind your own wheat lol. I'm not doing that. I do grow some tomatoes though.




> I really wanted to, I was looking forward to trying luctor's crust recipe but I just couldn't. I felt like crap yesterday (I had a medical procedure done yesterday am) called the Pizza Hut and paid for delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL


lol ! I never had pizza hut  . Although I think theres a few over here.

----------


## presence

> What does that even mean anymore--do I have to grind my own wheat? Make the oven? Grow the tomatoes and milk a buffalo to make the cheese?


YES! Now get in the kitchen and make me a pie!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> If you're new to bricklaying... one quick tip that will help quite a bit... before you turn your trowel sideways while holding mortar, give it a quick "shake" this will suction the mortar to the trowel, keeping it from sliding off.
> 
> 
> 
> Also... learn to talk to your brick


I'm not completely new to bricklaying but I'm in no way an expert. I've done a couple dozen projects including a few serious ones. Overall a few thousand bricks or so. I'll try my best. Thanks !




> It will increase creativity!


I was planning on doing some different brick positions in order to make the work look a bit less dull. I still have to learn the English terms for these positions. 




> For your "one time use purposes" check out a:
> 
> 
> 
> You can get one of these and a "throw away" skill circular saw for under $100.  Rig up a thin dishwasher supply line to wet the blade; spray your tool down w/ compressed air and then some PB Blaster or WD-40 between uses; cut slowly as to not burn up your saw.


I can borrow a water cooled stone-saw for the firebricks. I'll see what I will use for the regular masonry. I've always got my angle grinder nearby if I need it. (I have one of those blades on my angle grinder)

----------


## presence

> I'm not completely new to bricklaying but I'm in no way an expert. I've done a couple dozen projects including a few serious ones. Overall a few thousand bricks or so. I'll try my best. Thanks !


I'm about as far in myself... I've been on jobsites with pro bricklayers and have several friends in the trade, so I've picked up the lingo

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'm about as far in myself... I've been on jobsites with pro bricklayers and have several friends in the trade, so I've picked up the lingo


I built my workshop together with an expert builder. Both to reduce labour costs and so I could learn more skills. I really like working with him as he has attention for detail and has patience to do things correctly. I have learned a lot while building my workshop and I'm trying to continue that here. He probably liked it too as I got to borrow some equipment. I will pay him back with pizza though!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Just picked up five-hundred-something bricks. 
I need about 300 to make the base, and I calculated approximately 150 stones for the exterior of the chimney and oven opening. Then added a bit extra as I have to cut a lot of stones. If I have many bricks left... I get a higher chimney . I'll make a pic when I finished stacking them. Of course I do not have the right wheel barrel for transporting bricks so it will take a few minutes longer.

----------


## Barrex

Most normal-lazy people would make square foundation and not hexagonal one.



Just saying

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Most normal-lazy people would make square foundation and not hexagonal one.
> 
> 
> 
> Just saying


It's an octagon lol. I can be lazy from time to time but I'm definitely not normal. 
There's a reason for it though. Rather than having to watch a real bulky structure later I'm spending a little more time to cut some corners. lol . It will save space, make it look less bulky and overall I think it will look great. At least I hope so. Thanks!

----------


## Barrex

> It's an octagon lol. I can be lazy from time to time but I'm definitely not normal. 
> There's a reason for it though. Rather than having to watch a real bulky structure later I'm spending a little more time to cut some corners. lol . It will save space, make it look less bulky and overall I think it will look great. At least I hope so. Thanks!


Yea... didnt count...Squares are best for storing stuff like wood in it (less corners). Neighbor had triangle base (one side open). He thought it would look good. Couldnt store almost any wood in it. Luckily there was a war (that boosted economy!!!) and he had to rebuild it with square foundation.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yea... didnt count...Squares are best for storing stuff like wood in it (less corners). Neighbor had triangle base (one side open). He thought it would look good. Couldnt store almost any wood in it. Luckily there was a war (that boosted economy!!!) and he had to rebuild it with square foundation.


I will have 2 vaults for storing wood that are about 2x2x2ft, and another two that will have an angled side to them. Overall I'll have 4 spaces with about the same volume. I'll probably use one space for oak, another for apple/pear and the third for regular firewood that we use in winter. 

It's plenty big since we have a larger wood storage by the side of the house, so it's only to have some firewood nearby. 

If I had to rebuild it I would probably do something completely different. Not because I don't like this, so far I really do.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

These are the bricks. I tried to find some of the extremes in regard to color. There's some orange in them and some darker tones. I like how these bricks look like they have been used before. Taste varies but I really like them and I think they suit the application. The house I live in is 200 years old or older, we don't know. This oven should be timeless, as is the house.


PS: these images are thumbnails.. click on them.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

The weather is too poor at the moment to do any work. I'm considering getting a tarp or some kind of rain protection. 
I don't mind when there's an occasional shower but it has been raining for while now, continuously. Not really nice weather to work with power tools. 

I also ordered a bigger angle grinder, 230mm, which hasn't shown up yet. I ordered some extra things and didn't notice one of those wasn't in stock. No worries, the weather is bad so I couldn't work anyways. I guess I'm kind of lucky after all. 

I haven't yet figured out what joint I'm going to make the 45 degree corners with, I'm first going to do a test with 22,5degree cuts and epoxy. It's probably the neatest way to solve the problem and I've got a bunch of epoxy laying around. Last time I used it it was still fine but it's getting nearer to the end of the predicted shelf life.

----------


## Barrex

> The weather is too poor at the moment to do any work. I'm considering getting a tarp or some kind of rain protection. 
> I don't mind when there's an occasional shower but it has been raining for while now, continuously. Not really nice weather to work with power tools. 
> 
> I also ordered a bigger angle grinder, 230mm, which hasn't shown up yet. I ordered some extra things and didn't notice one of those wasn't in stock. No worries, the weather is bad so I couldn't work anyways. I guess I'm kind of lucky after all. 
> 
> I haven't yet figured out what joint I'm going to make the 45 degree corners with, I'm first going to do a test with 22,5degree cuts and *epoxy*. It's probably the neatest way to solve the problem and I've got a bunch of epoxy laying around. Last time I used it it was still fine but it's getting nearer to the end of the predicted shelf life.


Epoxy resins? I wouldnt build anything food related with epoxy resins. Toxic.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Epoxy resins? I wouldnt build anything food related with epoxy resins. Toxic.




PS: As long as you don't heat it, epoxy is pretty much inert. Fish are pretty sensitive to toxins and epoxy is one of the things you can safely use in an aquarium or pond. There are kitchen countertops made out of epoxy, did you know that ? Uncured resins are a different story, as is sanding epoxy..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So I tried a couple things. Cutting bricks to glue them together works fine however it takes more time than I want to invest. 

Cut bricks look too different for me to expose the cut face. 

So I end up with this method basically (not my pic):



Some SS rods are added for reinforcement although it may not be necessary. I'll take the safe side on that. 

Too many things have kept me from work. The weather is clearing up again so I should start making some progress.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I had initially planned to be further along the building process by now. Sadly my grandfather passed away a week ago, we could see that coming for a while though. But due to this I have had other things on my mind. When I finally wanted to resume work, the weather changed a bit, today was a 100F day, this only happens once or twice a year. The whole week has been 90's. It's not something I'm used to, I can't work while it's that hot. The coming week the weather should cool down a little bit, hopefully enough so I can finally mix up some mortar without it drying before it's set.

I did manage to cut a few 'porotherm' (google it) building blocks, these are ceramic blocks that are more resistant to earthquakes than normal building blocks, I'm using them for the structural part. If the weather allows me to I'll make some pics tomorrow. (now I'm just complaining)

Just trying to keep this topic going !

----------


## amy31416

> I had initially planned to be further along the building process by now. Sadly my grandfather passed away a week ago, we could see that coming for a while though. But due to this I have had other things on my mind. When I finally wanted to resume work, the weather changed a bit, today was a 100F day, this only happens once or twice a year. The whole week has been 90's. It's not something I'm used to, I can't work while it's that hot. The coming week the weather should cool down a little bit, hopefully enough so I can finally mix up some mortar without it drying before it's set.
> 
> I did manage to cut a few 'porotherm' (google it) building blocks, these are ceramic blocks that are more resistant to earthquakes than normal building blocks, I'm using them for the structural part. If the weather allows me to I'll make some pics tomorrow. (now I'm just complaining)
> 
> Just trying to keep this topic going !


Very sorry for your loss.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Very sorry for your loss.


Thanks. Fun story though, my grandfather was a contractor/carpenter. He never intended to be one but he had to take over the family business (from around 1790 to late 1980's). That business was sold when he got two daughters, one of them got a son that never intended to do any carpentry or contracting. Me.

----------


## Meatwasp

Luctor
The oven is beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

----------


## Meatwasp

I just read that on your grandfather passing away. So sorry

----------


## LogCabinGOProud

Sorry for your losss.Your oven idea looks amazing, though.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Thanks for the nice replies! 

I had trouble working on this project since it's in my spare time and I pretty much lost all of my creativity. I started working again and I have half of the supporting structure done. Pics later today.

----------


## Suzanimal

Yay! I can't wait to see wait you've been up to. I was trying to figure out what to have for dinner tonight...pizza kinda sounds good. This thread's gonna make me fat.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I just made a big batch of lasagna yesterday. About 10 pounds of it. All organic ingredients and fresh homemade pasta. Most of it is frozen now (for days I don't want to cook) but I made sure I tasted enough of it yesterday. It's always fun to make a little more. I should try canning some lasagna some time. 

This is a dish that I'm surely going to make in this oven as well. Perfect for it.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yay! I can't wait to see wait you've been up to. I was trying to figure out what to have for dinner tonight...pizza kinda sounds good. This thread's gonna make me fat.


Make your dough early so it can rest in the fridge for a while... There's no reason you can't make a lean pizza, add more herbs for taste ! So don't worry about getting fat.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Make your dough early so it can rest in the fridge for a while... There's no reason you can't make a lean pizza, add more herbs for taste ! So don't worry about getting fat.


Good idea.
I'm thinking spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes, some good mozzarella and white sauce. Maybe I'll add some fresh basil too.

----------


## tod evans

> Good idea.
> I'm thinking spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes, some good mozzarella and white sauce. Maybe I'll add some fresh basil too.


Is your ol' man going to put up with this or is this-n just for you?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Good idea.
> I'm thinking spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes, some good mozzarella and white sauce. Maybe I'll add some fresh basil too.


Try oregano and thyme, it's really good. Chillies are optional. Is white sauce béchamel sauce ?

----------


## Suzanimal

> Is your ol' man going to put up with this or is this-n just for you?


Me and #2 son, my ol' man is rarely home. He left at 6:30am to play golf and told me not to expect him home until tomorrow. My younger son doesn't care for meat and he likes to help me cook so we'll have fun. 

My husband wouldn't like it, he's a pizza purist - pepperoni only.




> Try oregano and thyme, it's really good. Chillies are optional. Is white sauce béchamel sauce ?


I'm not sure I've ever used thyme. Yes, the white sauce is bechamel sauce but I add a little garlic to it for flavor. I love white sauce on pizza.

----------


## tod evans

> Me and #2 son, my ol' man is rarely home. He left at 6:30am to play golf and told me not to expect him home until tomorrow. My younger son doesn't care for meat and he likes to help me cook so we'll have fun. 
> 
> My husband wouldn't like it, he's a pizza purist - pepperoni only.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I've ever used thyme. Yes, the white sauce is bechamel sauce but I add a little garlic to it for flavor. I love white sauce on pizza.


Son and I both do Italian sausage and pepperoni....

[edit]
If you're feeling brave try some of the "hot" or even "extra-hot" (It really is!) from Minelli Bros....

http://minellimeatanddeli.com/menu.php

----------


## Suzanimal

> Son and I both do Italian sausage and pepperoni....


I like Italian sausage but I'm not big on pepperoni. My husband he loves the stuff. He likes Margherita pepperoni in a natural casing, you can't buy it here so he orders it online and flips out if anyone touches it.

If you see some, buy it - I'm not a big fan of pepperoni but I like Margherita better than anything else I've tried.
http://www.amazon.com/Margherita-VER...6F33P35VK20VPK

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'm not sure I've ever used thyme. Yes, the white sauce is bechamel sauce but I add a little garlic to it for flavor. I love white sauce on pizza.


I have tried bolognese sauce on my pizza before, that's totally awesome, haven't tried to make it into a lasagna pizza by also adding béchamel. In any case, I should try that some time, I don't see how it wouldn't be tasty. 




> Son and I both do Italian sausage and pepperoni....
> 
> [edit]
> If you're feeling brave try some of the "hot" or even "extra-hot" (It really is!) from Minelli Bros....
> 
> http://minellimeatanddeli.com/menu.php


Extra hot please. I make a pizza with spicy ground lamb, onions, mushrooms and 3 types of chillies. Too hot for most but there are a few friends of mine that want nothing else. 




> I like Italian sausage but I'm not big on pepperoni. My husband he loves the stuff. He likes Margherita pepperoni in a natural casing, you can't buy it here so he orders it online and flips out if anyone touches it.
> 
> If you see some, buy it - I'm not a big fan of pepperoni but I like Margherita better than anything else I've tried.
> http://www.amazon.com/Margherita-VER...6F33P35VK20VPK


I think I'm very lucky. I've got about a dozen stores around where I can get pretty much any kind of cheese or cured meat. Oils, herbs and spices. I love all kinds of sausage on my pizza, salt and fatty, great. 

I always finish my pizza's by brushing the edges and drizzling some homemade garlic/herb oil over it. An empty wine bottle with a liquor pooring-thingy filled with olive oil, chilies, rosemary, thyme, oregano, basil, sage, peppercorns and 2 dozen cloves of garlic. Yum.

----------


## tod evans

> Extra hot please. I make a pizza with spicy ground lamb, onions, mushrooms and 3 types of chillies. Too hot for most but there are a few friends of mine that want nothing else.


I would love your pizza!

Extra hot for me too!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I would love your pizza!
> 
> Extra hot for me too!


This is what I use to spice up the beef, along with some cumin, paprika powder, fresh ginger, cardamon, coriander and cinnamon.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I have tried bolognese sauce on my pizza before, that's totally awesome, haven't tried to make it into a lasagna pizza by also adding béchamel. In any case, I should try that some time, I don't see how it wouldn't be tasty. 
> 
> 
> Extra hot please. I make a pizza with spicy ground lamb, onions, mushrooms and 3 types of chillies. Too hot for most but there are a few friends of mine that want nothing else. 
> 
> 
> I think I'm very lucky. I've got about a dozen stores around where I can get pretty much any kind of cheese or cured meat. Oils, herbs and spices. I love all kinds of sausage on my pizza, salt and fatty, great. 
> 
> I always finish my pizza's by brushing the edges and drizzling some homemade garlic/herb oil over it. An *empty wine bottle* with a liquor pooring-thingy filled with olive oil, chilies, rosemary, thyme, oregano, basil, sage, peppercorns and 2 dozen cloves of garlic. Yum.


My wine comes in a box. 

I love spicy food but my son doesn't so I add dried chilies to mine after it's cooked. I like to make this (below) when I make homemade bread, that would probably be pretty good brushed on the crust. Do you put cornmeal or whatever that gritty stuff is under your crust? I don't, I think it makes the crust taste like sandpaper. Why do places do that?

1/8 teaspoon oregano
1/8 teaspoon basil
1/8 teaspoon rosemary
1/8 teaspoon or a little less kosher salt (use according to your taste)
fresh ground pepper
dash of red pepper flakes
1 large clove of garlic (crushed)
2 to 3 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil

Read more at http://www.copykat.com/2009/02/13/ca...s0uiUBBDmU5.99

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> My wine comes in a box. 
> 
> I love spicy food but my son doesn't so I add dried chilies to mine after it's cooked. I like to make this (below) when I make homemade bread, that would probably be pretty good brushed on the crust. Do you put cornmeal or whatever that gritty stuff is under your crust? I don't, I think it makes the crust taste like sandpaper. Why do places do that?


They do that because it makes it way less likely that the dough will stick to the countertop. You can use flour too but that's harder to distribute and when you use a high hydration dough like is used in wood fired ovens it will stick after a minute or so because the moisture makes the flour sticky. Lots of places use cornmeal, I don't, it sucks. I use semolina, it's nearly tasteless and you use a very small amount of it. I don't mind the texture, to me it doesn't feel like sandpaper. I don't like some of the commercial pizza places that use cornmeal, I have not tried cornmeal myself though, just semolina. 

Semolina acts like ball bearings, making it nearly impossible for your dough to stick even if it's thin and loaded with toppings.




> 1/8 teaspoon oregano
> 1/8 teaspoon basil
> 1/8 teaspoon rosemary
> 1/8 teaspoon or a little less kosher salt (use according to your taste)
> fresh ground pepper
> dash of red pepper flakes
> 1 large clove of garlic (crushed)
> 2 to 3 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil
> 
> Read more at http://www.copykat.com/2009/02/13/ca...s0uiUBBDmU5.99


That's pretty similar to what I use minus the chili's. I make big batches though, whenever I have friends over my bottle goes missing for some reason. It's delicious with a lot of things, like soups or sauteing steak.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Son and I both do Italian sausage and pepperoni....
> 
> [edit]
> If you're feeling brave try some of the "hot" or even "extra-hot" (It really is!) from Minelli Bros....
> 
> http://minellimeatanddeli.com/menu.php


Do the Minelli's deliver? Cuz I could go for a chocolate eclair too. We just got a new farmers market I'm dying to go to, they have homemade sausage and their prices look very good. Their homemade sausage is 3.50lb and watermelons are only 1.88. This pizza may turn into a field trip.

http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-b...ppes-webb-gin/

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## tod evans

> Do the Minelli's deliver?


I have family bring it down to me...

The sausage recipe is from "The Olde Country" and more closely guarded than the cash register.....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I have family bring it down to me...
> 
> The sausage recipe is from "The Olde Country" and more closely guarded than the cash register.....


I like those recipes. Although I must say I gladly share most of my recipes, just as long as you don't spoil my business. I have learned everything I know about cooking from others so I'm glad if I can teach someone else and pass the favor on. But guarded recipes usually means there's something really tasty to get... If you come to the Netherlands at some point have some of those sausages vacuum sealed and bring them to me . I'd love to taste !

A friend of mine that's a chef at a modern/fusion restaurant has started a hobby of sausage making, I should call him and ask if he can make some spicy italian sausage for my pizza's.

----------


## tod evans

> I like those recipes. Although I must say I gladly share most of my recipes, just as long as you don't spoil my business. I have learned everything I know about cooking from others so I'm glad if I can teach someone else and pass the favor on. But guarded recipes usually means there's something really tasty to get... If you come to the Netherlands at some point have some of those sausages vacuum sealed and bring them to me . I'd love to taste !
> 
> A friend of mine that's a chef at a modern/fusion restaurant has started a hobby of sausage making, I should call him and ask if he can make some spicy italian sausage for my pizza's.


Have him design a signature sausage for you and your new oven...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Have him design a signature sausage for you and your new oven...


Awesome idea! Thanks.
Suggestions ? I really like the saltiness of salami, garlicky-flavors.. Not too chewy. What about something sweet/sour and spicy?

----------


## tod evans

> Awesome idea! Thanks.
> Suggestions ? I really like the saltiness of salami, garlicky-flavors.. Not too chewy. What about something sweet/sour and spicy?


Locally grown garlic, fennel seed (whole!)  mediterranean oregano, Italian crushed red pepper, a hint of basil in a lamb/pork/goat mixture.....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Locally grown garlic, fennel seed (whole!)  mediterranean oregano, Italian crushed red pepper, a hint of basil in a lamb/pork/goat mixture.....


We do have a few garlic farms around here, I know two that sell to the public within 20 miles, both fresh and dried. I'm not really a fan of fennel although I guess the seeds inside a sausage is a whole other thing. I grow my own oregano, basil. I think the hardest thing to come by is goat meat, although I think some of the halal/islamic butchers may stock goat. Something I'd have to find out. Certainly an interesting mix. 

A lot of the minced meat that is sold here is made up of lean beef and pork fat, because we have a national pork fat excess situation. So if you get mixed ground beef the actual beef is made up from lean meat from African cows (virtually free of fat) and pork fat from our slaughterhouses.  Since the pork fat is probably the tastiest, the lamb fat being a bit musky in taste, I suspect you'd add quite fatty pork and lean parts of lamb/goat to the mix ?

----------


## tod evans

> We do have a few garlic farms around here, I know two that sell to the public within 20 miles, both fresh and dried. I'm not really a fan of fennel although I guess the seeds inside a sausage is a whole other thing. I grow my own oregano, basil. I think the hardest thing to come by is goat meat, although I think some of the halal/islamic butchers may stock goat. Something I'd have to find out. Certainly an interesting mix. 
> 
> A lot of the minced meat that is sold here is made up of lean beef and pork fat, because we have a national pork fat excess situation. So if you get mixed ground beef the actual beef is made up from lean meat from African cows (virtually free of fat) and pork fat from our slaughterhouses.  Since the pork fat is probably the tastiest, the lamb fat being a bit musky in taste, I suspect you'd add quite fatty pork and lean parts of lamb/goat to the mix ?


Yup, use lean lamb, goat's lean as it is, but you asked for "not too chewy"....

What strain of oregano did you start with? Some is better than others when dried and I've only ever seen sausage made with dry ingredients...

Leave out the Mexican and Thai chilis, if you want hotter just increase the crushed red pepper....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yup, use lean lamb, goat's lean as it is, but you asked for "not too chewy"....
> 
> What strain of oregano did you start with? Some is better than others when dried and I've only ever seen sausage made with dry ingredients...
> 
> Leave out the Mexican and Thai chilis, if you want hotter just increase the crushed red pepper....


I'm not sure what strain of oregano it is, it's organically certified seeds. I grow it and then I dry it bound together in a bunch. Then I crumble/cut it as I need it.  It's a pretty fragrant type, I have had several other packets of seeds before these that were all inferior. This is one tastes better than the best shop bought oregano. I don't really use fresh oregano for anything, it's something that has to be dried although I suspect the one I grow now is perfect to use in salads. 

Do you mean red peppercorns or red chili's ?

----------


## tod evans

> I'm not sure what strain of oregano it is, it's organically certified seeds. I grow it and then I dry it bound together in a bunch. Then I crumble/cut it as I need it.  It's a pretty fragrant type, I have had several other packets of seeds before these that were all inferior. This is one tastes better than the best shop bought oregano. I don't really use fresh oregano for anything, it's something that has to be dried although I suspect the one I grow now is perfect to use in salads. 
> 
> Do you mean red peppercorns or red chili's ?


Not peppercorns....

Over here in the states "crushed red pepper" is quite common...

Here's a how to tube...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Not peppercorns....
> 
> Over here in the states "crushed red pepper" is quite common...
> 
> Here's a how to tube...


Ok thanks, that's what we call red chili's or cajun peppers here. I have plenty of those out of my own garden.

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## tod evans

> Ok thanks, that's what we call red chili's or cajun peppers here. I have plenty of those out of my own garden.


I've been reading............And stand corrected.

Crushed red pepper as I know it is a mixture of dried chilis that does include both Mexican and Thai chilis...

The trick apparently is to dry them and blend to taste, be sure to not pulverize them or overcook....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yay! I can't wait to see wait you've been up to. I was trying to figure out what to have for dinner tonight...pizza kinda sounds good. This thread's gonna make me fat.


So did you make pizza last night ?!

----------


## Suzanimal

> So did you make pizza last night ?!


Yes, it was yummy! My son saved a piece for breakfast and all I'm sayin' is he better get up soon. We used white sauce, spinach, mushrooms, fresh basil, mozzarella cheese and we brushed our bread dip recipe on the crust, it was really good. I liked the herb/oil mix on the crust, that was a nice touch. I told my son about your pizza oven and he looked up something on the web about how to turn your grill into a pizza oven. I told him not to get his hopes up on that.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Sounds good! Breakfast pizza specifically.. Best thing ever.

Ok, so I made a horrible pic with my phone that is zoomed in and everything so it's bit pixelated. 


This is the interior supporting structure, what sucks about it is that my angle grinder can't get through these blocks in one go with 45 degree cuts so it's a bit unpleasant. Apart from that it's stacking up nicely. I put about 1-2 hrs of spare time into the project each day, if the weather allows for it. Today it's going to be rainy  .

----------


## Suzanimal

> Sounds good! Breakfast pizza specifically.. Best thing ever.
> 
> Ok, so I made a horrible pic with my phone that is zoomed in and everything so it's bit pixelated. 
> 
> 
> This is the interior supporting structure, what sucks about it is that my angle grinder can't get through these blocks in one go with 45 degree cuts so it's a bit unpleasant. Apart from that it's stacking up nicely. I put about 1-2 hrs of spare time into the project each day, if the weather allows for it. Today it's going to be rainy  .


Wow, I'm impressed, that is going to be so cool when you're finished. What are you going to cook your pizzas on?

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Wow, I'm impressed, that is going to be so cool when you're finished. What are you going to cook your pizzas on?


WHEN I'm finished it's going to look cool. And this is just the supporting structure and area for wood storage. It will still take a while before it's finished, at the pace it's going right now maybe at christmas. 

The pizza's will be cooked on stone off course. The same stones the fire burns on.

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## Suzanimal

> WHEN I'm finished it's going to look cool. And this is just the supporting structure and area for wood storage. It will still take a while before it's finished, at the pace it's going right now maybe at christmas.


Pizza for Christmas dinner!!! I know my kids would love that idea. One year I made tamales for Christmas, it didn't go over too well with my brothers. They've come to expect standing rib roast, shrimp, scallops and twice baked potatoes - they bring the beer. It costs me about $800.00 to have the honor of cooking all day Christmas for those fools. I told them that's their Christmas gift and they'd either better chip in or get me something good. They opted to give me crappy gifts but they're so funny I can't even complain. I've gotten a tiara from the $1 store, a poster sized print of a photo of them(group gift), an ugly ass coat fur coat they found at the thrift store (I think it was mangy) and lots of random crap I've seen in their house that they just wrapped up. Boys...

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Pizza for Christmas dinner!!! I know my kids would love that idea. One year I made tamales for Christmas, it didn't go over too well with my brothers. They've come to expect standing rib roast, shrimp, scallops and twice baked potatoes - they bring the beer. It costs me about $800.00 to have the honor of cooking all day Christmas for those fools. I told them that's their Christmas gift and they'd either better chip in or get me something good. They opted to give me crappy gifts but they're so funny I can't even complain. I've gotten a tiara from the $1 store, a poster sized print of a photo of them(group gift), an ugly ass coat fur coat they found at the thrift store (I think it was mangy) and lots of random crap I've seen in their house that they just wrapped up. Boys...


I didn't mean I would make pizza at christmas lol. Like mentioned before, you can make pretty much anything in there. I'm not really into all the classic christmas foods, I just make a load of dishes that fit together each year. My family is welcome to come and eat, if they don't like it they can cook for themselves. So far they seem to come back each year so I must be doing something right. 

I do hate the holidays though, all the organization and then people have other ideas and you have to change everything again. Found a nice recipe but the ingredients you're looking for are sold out, stuff like that. I'd rather just cook dinner for myself and whomever is around at that time instead of the pressure of something semi-formal.

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## luctor-et-emergo

More rain today... But it's pizza day. The supporting structure is coming together piece by piece, some more dusty cutting work tomorrow. I kind of wish I had picked smaller blocks or even regular bricks, these blocks probably are more suited to large straight walls, having to cut more than half of them to size is a real PITA.

Anyways, pizza today ! I'll try to make some pics, if I remember.

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## tod evans

Do you have access to a tile saw?

If so most will swing a 10" blade and segmented blades are fairly inexpensive and will last forever in water....

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Do you have access to a tile saw?
> 
> If so most will swing a 10" blade and segmented blades are fairly inexpensive and will last forever in water....


Yes but that won't cut through them either, they're 4inch thick blocks and I have to cut some at a 45 degree angle. I have got a gas powered stone saw now, that's pretty heavy so it should go through there, still doesn't make it all the way through though but at least it's safer to work with than the big electric angle grinder.

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## tod evans

Well $#@!!

If you were closer I have a friend with a 24" block saw.....

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## luctor-et-emergo

Thanks, I looked into renting a chainsaw for masonry work, but those don't seem to exist here. I'll have to and will manage with the angle grinder and stone saw. I'm not under any real time pressure which isn't necessarily a good thing. I hope there's less rain tomorrow, then I'll make some dust. 

First I'm making pizza.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Ok well, I made pizza, even made pics.. Just have to upload them. Maybe tonight, 5 minute job but I really hate it. .

Enough complaining, I worked with the gas powered stone cutter and that's a pretty neat tool, it's 50lbs or so but when it's fully running it's so heavy that kickback is impossible. The torque on that thing is amazing, once it's at full speed it doesn't wobble at all, where my 2000W Bosch blue does allow you to wobble and get kickback. It's the confidence I need to do the 45 degree cuts, I just need to make a little jig tomorrow so I can clamp these blocks at 45 degrees so I don't have to keep the sawblade at an angle(which was my safety concern with the electric angle grinder to begin with...).  I hope to get all the sawing done tomorrow as well as mortaring these blocks in place. This job has taken too long so far, even though I had no planning, I just have to find some confidence in myself and get on with it. This whole project is one big fight against my perfectionism, I will win though.

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## presence

> Thanks, I looked into renting a chainsaw for masonry work, but those don't seem to exist here.



You can rent these at home depot:





DO NOT SET SAW DOWN UNTIL BLADE COMES TO A FULL STOP 

$#@!ING NEVER EVER EVER; TWO HANDS ALL THE TIME

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## luctor-et-emergo

> You can rent these at home depot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DO NOT SET SAW DOWN UNTIL BLADE COMES TO A FULL STOP 
> 
> $#@!ING NEVER EVER EVER; TWO HANDS ALL THE TIME


If it comforts you, safety is my biggest concern, especially when I work with tools that are more powerful than me.

I have one of those, my neighbor lent me one. It still does not cut through the blocks in a single pass. One of the bolts holding the handle has mysteriously disappeared so I can't use it at the moment. 

I'm back at using my 230mm angle grinder. I made a small jig that I use to keep the blocks at 45 degrees so I can keep the blade of my angle grinder perpendicular to the ground. I use a few other blocks (which are 10lbs each) to secure it in place. After cutting through from one side I turn it over and do the other side. I can just about cut through them that way and a small tap breaks them exactly where I want them to. 

For various reasons I have not worked on the project for a while but I hope to get the supporting structure done tomorrow. Right now theres a giant thunderstorm over it so I hope the leaky tarp I used will be enough to protect what I did today.

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## luctor-et-emergo

(sheltering some sand from water that leaks through my leaky tarp.)

It may not appear as a lot of progress, but everything is mortared into place and the last layer is cut, these are not in the frame. This part will be done tomorrow. After which I can start on the fancy parts. I hope I can put a few more hours into this the coming weeks. I'll see what's possible.

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## luctor-et-emergo

This is one of the pizza's I made last week, I forgot to download the pics from my camera but here it is. Made in a more conventional electric oven.

----------


## presence

> If it comforts you, safety is my biggest concern, especially when I work with tools that are more powerful than me.


Good to hear.

I live in stone cutter country.  Its big business out here.  Those are called "smoker" saws around here because of the dust they throw when cutting rock.  A buddy of mine set a smoker saw down one handed; he swung it behind and to his left.  He was wearing ear protection and oblivious to it still spinning.  The blade bit rock and climbed up his left calf vertically to the bone.  50 stitches on the outside.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Good to hear.
> 
> I live in stone cutter country.  Its big business out here.  Those are called "smoker" saws around here because of the dust they throw when cutting rock.  A buddy of mine set a smoker saw down one handed; he swung it behind and to his left.  He was wearing ear protection and oblivious to it still spinning.  The blade bit rock and climbed up his left calf vertically to the bone.  50 stitches on the outside.


Sorry to hear about your buddy, that does not sound like an accident that is fun to have. I have never had an accident with power tools but I'd say that's mostly due to me not rushing things. My kind of accident is bumping into things, like my knee into a wall. I can see how it becomes increasingly difficult to not have a serious accident when you work with these tools day in day out, at some point you are likely to make a mistake or get careless. 

The electric angle grinder does produce a similar amount of dust. I was first wearing a paint-mask with dust filter but I changed that for a simple dust mask. Seems to stop of the dust. The ground around where I'm cutting is completely covered in Mars colored dust. I think this dust would also be perfect for testing Mars rovers since it's very powdery and the smallest amount of water turns it into a horrible ball bearing wrecking clay. 

I live at the end of Europe's river system basically. We don't have any real rocks that we can mine so almost all of our building is done with clay based brick products. We have plenty of rivers so clay bricks are abundant and cheap. The building blocks I'm using here are pretty rare here though, these are more commonly used in Eastern-Europe.

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## luctor-et-emergo

It looks like it's rain season here. I think we have not had a day without rain in the last two weeks.


I'm almost finished with the interior part but as you can see I could use a bit less rain.


Some leftover slices. These were left over after I cut these blocks into 4" high blocks for the top course. After that just a course of normal bricks to get the to right height. 


The weather forecast says more rain until Wednesday...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Not the best weather still, but in between the red dots there's sunshine. Good enough to do some work.

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## luctor-et-emergo

In between rainstorms today I finished cutting the blocks. Lots of fun with high humidity and safety glasses.  
It's starting to take shape and it's looking like my octagon design is going to pay off and look really nice. A little bit more work and I can poor the oven floor, can't wait.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Finished... Will make pics later because this topic starts to look like a monologue! Glad I got the worst part out of the way, from now on it's just fun. At least I hope so.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Ok pics. It doesn't look like an oven yet but there's something taking shape. 







Got visitors... have to leave it here.

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## luctor-et-emergo

My dough, I made some pizza's tonight. The tiny one is for the dog, she's 14 years old and she really likes stuff she shouldn't eat so who am I to stop her. 

<click to enlarge>

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## luctor-et-emergo

Pizza Margarita as it goes into the oven.


As it comes out, sadly I cannot get the same kind of coloring on the crust that a WFO (wood fired oven) would do, but soon I will be able to. (I had to economize on the basil or my patch of green deliciousness would have been completely destroyed)


Chorizo sausage pizza.


<click to enlarge>

----------


## phill4paul

> My dough, I made some pizza's tonight. The tiny one is for the dog, she's 14 years old and she really likes stuff she shouldn't eat so who am I to stop her. 
> 
> <click to enlarge>


  Please share with us your dough recipe. This is the recipe I've been using along with the "hot skillet" method of cooking in an oven. Works pretty good but just cannot simulate WFO. http://www.lamag.com/lafood/recipes/...tanstyle-pizza

I have been planning for over a year now to make a "FrankenWeber" pizza oven: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archive...za-hacker.html. So busy it looks like this fall before I can start.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Pizza Margarita as it goes into the oven.
> 
> 
> As it comes out, sadly I cannot get the same kind of coloring on the crust that a WFO (wood fired oven) would do, but soon I will be able to. (I had to economize on the basil or my patch of green deliciousness would have been completely destroyed)
> 
> 
> Chorizo sausage pizza.
> 
> 
> <click to enlarge>


I love chorizo, those look so good.

----------


## Suzanimal

Here's his dough recipe.




> I have simplified my dough although it takes time to develop. 
> 
> The flour I use is classified as 'pastry flour' in the US. 
> I use, 2% salt 2% yeast and 65% water. 
> 
> I use cool water, I first let the yeast develop a bit in the water for half an hour. No sugar.
> Then I add that to the flour and knead it until it looks like a pretty good dough, then add the salt and knead more until it's mixed in well with the dough. 
> 
> Then I rest my dough for 15-30 minutes with a damp cloth over it. Then I weigh each piece of dough and roll them into a ball. Then they go into the fridge for 24 hours to develop. It's important that the dough does not get warm during kneading, so don't knead too heavily. This is a cold rise, it's different. 
> ...





> Please share with us your dough recipe. This is the recipe I've been using along with the "hot skillet" method of cooking in an oven.http://www.lamag.com/lafood/recipes/...tanstyle-pizza
> 
> I have been planning for over a year now to make a "FrankenWeber" pizza oven: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archive...za-hacker.html. So busy it looks like this fall before I can start.

----------


## phill4paul

> Here's his dough recipe.


  Bah, I must have missed it. I've missed quite a bit on this thread and am going to have to re read some of it. +rep

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Please share with us your dough recipe. This is the recipe I've been using along with the "hot skillet" method of cooking in an oven.http://www.lamag.com/lafood/recipes/...tanstyle-pizza
> 
> I have been planning for over a year now to make a "FrankenWeber" pizza oven: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archive...za-hacker.html. So busy it looks like this fall before I can start.


I posted my dough recipe here somewhere before but I'll do it again.. I like to share what I know.

My recipe is based on percentages, like a bakery uses. Everything is a ratio in regard to the flour. 

Flour '100%' (pastry flour, Caputo 00 is te best off course)
Water 65% (cold or warmish depending on the time)
Salt 2%
Yeast 2%

With a short time span use 1% sugar (which is what I did in these pics but I normally don't), first mix yeast water and sugar, use warmish water. Then mix with flour until doughy. Add salt and knead until everything is neatly incorporated. Portion and put in the fridge for 2hrs. Rest outside the fridge with a moist cloth for 30-60mins and it's ready.

When you have more time, don't add sugar and make sure your dough never warms up, put the portioned dough in the fridge, the easiest way is to use individual plastic tubs with lids, they tend to get a bit sticky. Unless you have a professional fridge that you can fit trays in this is the way to go. Leave them for 24hrs, then 30mins outside the fridge with the moist cloth.

that oven looks like a very compact thing. The only problem I can see with that is that the fire gets too close to the pizza causing excess blackening. But it's much more portable then my giant structure. Go for it, I'll await your topic .

Hot skillet method isn't too bad, a friend of mine tried to make pizza in a big green egg bbq, with a pizza stone, at the temps you normally use in a WFO. Pizza looked fine until we took it out, black underneath.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I love chorizo, those look so good.


I actually wanted to buy salami but when I was at the butcher/delicacy store I accidentally asked for chorizo. But it's tasty as well.




> Bah, I must have missed it. I've missed quite a bit on this thread and am going to have to re read some of it. +rep


Thanks. There's more to come, I'm glad I have the first bit settled now, but I don't think I have done half of the work yet.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

The insides of these compartments are going to be rendered, I think I may also add some wooden framing in order to protect the rendering from heavy abuse by split logs. I'm quite pleased by the way it turned out. These blocks weren't easy to cut. Very hard and brittle, they are designed for specific purposes. Normally you only use mortar underneath and on top, where I didn't have a knife/fork situation I filled the joint with mortar as usual with brickwork. These blocks are the most stable thing ever as long as they're loaded. When theres no load on them you can 'easily' tap them over. Once they're loaded with weight they're quite insensitive to earthquakes. I really like these blocks and if I were building something bigger like a house I would definitely use them for interior walls, although I'd use ones twice as wide.


Scraps... I have a few more but not too much, so far this I have been salvaging scraps more than making them, great.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Does anyone know if a Bosch jig saw (with a new blade to be sure) that seems to have a bent trajectory while sawing is possible to repair ? The stupid thing looks fine until you start sawing into something, the blade bends over to to left a bit and I can't get an accurate cut. I don't really want to buy a new one. I can borrow one from a neighbor but I'd rather fix my own if possible. 

I'm working on a few moulds for the arcs that will be in front of the four compartments for wood, basically it's going to be 2 sort of half circle (not sure yet but probably a parabola) 8 inches apart, and held up at the right height so I can rest the arc stones on there until it's loaded and the mortar has set. So I really need a jigsaw or bandsaw to cut the arc.. I hate sanding and filing so I don't want to correct the error of my machine with hard work.

----------


## tod evans

> Does anyone know if a Bosch jig saw (with a new blade to be sure) that seems to have a bent trajectory while sawing is possible to repair ? The stupid thing looks fine until you start sawing into something, the blade bends over to to left a bit and I can't get an accurate cut. I don't really want to buy a new one. I can borrow one from a neighbor but I'd rather fix my own if possible. 
> 
> I'm working on a few moulds for the arcs that will be in front of the four compartments for wood, basically it's going to be 2 sort of half circle (not sure yet but probably a parabola) 8 inches apart, and held up at the right height so I can rest the arc stones on there until it's loaded and the mortar has set. So I really need a jigsaw or bandsaw to cut the arc.. I hate sanding and filing so I don't want to correct the error of my machine with hard work.


All jig saws will have blade drift to some extent..

A new blade can be dull in as little as 3 feet (1 meter) depending on what you're cutting...

Curves require different blades than straight...

All Bosch saws made this decade have blade oscillation, if you have it turned off try turning it on....

All that said.........Using a router and trammel arm is the most accurate way to cut circles....

----------


## presence

If you're using a push blade switch to a pulling blade.   Take your time through the cut.


Tod if you're reading...  Check out metabo's barrel grip jigsaw.  Its boss.   My portercable collects dust now.
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...S_010=67313981

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> All jig saws will have blade drift to some extent..
> 
> A new blade can be dull in as little as 3 feet (1 meter) depending on what you're cutting...
> 
> Curves require different blades than straight...
> 
> All Bosch saws made this decade have blade oscillation, if you have it turned off try turning it on....
> 
> All that said.........Using a router and trammel arm is the most accurate way to cut circles....


I have a router and an arm but I'm not sure if I want an exact circle, maybe more of a parabola. Thats easier to draw and cut freehand. I see where you are coming from though, it does drift a bit on the straight lines too. I have plenty of new saws and I have tried switching to a new one a few times before so I'm pretty sure theres something wrong with the machine itself.





> If you're using a push blade switch to a pulling blade.   Take your time through the cut.
> 
> 
> Tod if you're reading...  Check out metabo's barrel grip jigsaw.  Its boss.   My portercable collects dust now.
> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...S_010=67313981


You know, I'm actually not sure, but I guess it's a push blade since I have to hold it down instead of the machine keeping itself down. I'll have a look at that. I've talked to my neighbor and I can borrow his machine tonight. Fixing mine or figuring out what I'm doing wrong is something for a later date. I'm not sure though if there even are pull saw blades here, I like looking at assortments of tools and it's not something I have noticed before. Thanks for the tip.

----------


## presence

Through something like rough cuts on 3/4 (20mm) plywood a "standard pulling blade" is best.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 


I'm pretty sure mine has the standard blade, I'll walk over to my workshop to check for sure. I'd imagine that's the one I need or do I need the one on the right ? Seems like the left one would work like a japanese pull saw. More or less.

----------


## presence

> I'm pretty sure mine has the standard blade, I'll walk over to my workshop to check for sure. I'd imagine that's the one I need or do I need the one on the right ? Seems like the left one would work like a japanese pull saw. More or less.


yep you want the one on the left; pulling cut.


You might need to replace your roller assembly:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-26013219.../dp/B00BCNFPW2


Also, while cutting, resist the urge to pull the saw sideways toward the way your curve is turning.  You want to rotate your jigsaw on a verticle axis centered on the blade... then let the blade do the actual turning.  Jigsaw is a marathon not a sprint.

----------


## tod evans

> Tod if you're reading...  Check out metabo's barrel grip jigsaw.  Its boss.   My portercable collects dust now.
> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...S_010=67313981


Metabo is good stuff. I prefer the handled jigsaws but it's personal preference..

If you've not tried the Bosch T-234X blades do yourself a favor and try them, they're like a Japanese pull saw for the jigsaw...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> yep you want the one on the left; pulling cut.
> 
> 
> You might need to replace your roller assembly:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-26013219.../dp/B00BCNFPW2
> 
> 
> Also, while cutting, resist the urge to pull the saw sideways toward the way your curve is turning.  You want to rotate your jigsaw on a verticle axis centered on the blade... then let the blade do the actual turning.  Jigsaw is a marathon not a sprint.


I could use a better blade but theres definitely something wrong with the machine, I'll open it up and see if I can find anything. In the meantime I'll borrow one. 




> Metabo is good stuff. I prefer the handled jigsaws but it's personal preference..
> 
> If you've not tried the Bosch T-234X blades do yourself a favor and try them, they're like a Japanese pull saw for the jigsaw...


That looks like a nice saw blade. I'll see if hey stock those here. I'll probably have to order that online, most diy stores are exactly the same and only stock low quality chinese crap. I have ordered all my power tools online and most of my drill bits etc. The store I order from has nearly everything and they have next day delivery (for free if I order over 50euro) if I order before 9pm. But I'd hate to order 'just' saw blades.

----------


## tod evans

If you can't think of $50.00 worth of tools to buy then speak up....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> If you can't think of $50.00 worth of tools to buy then speak up....


I know... Last time I wanted a chalk line thingy, so I ordered an angle grinder and a few disks with it.
Good economics ! Frees shipping but spend 200$ more. 

At least tools are useful, and they last a long time. Unless it's a Bosch jigsaw, damn thing was made in Switzerland, my Bosch router was made in China, cost only twice as much 80/160EUR and is a much more decent machine with very low tolerances... I stopped buying the green Bosch anyways.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Drew up this as a template for the short face. Since theres very little space it was hard to get up with something satisfactory but I think this will do. I'm still contemplating on which and if any bricks I want to have stick out half an inch or so. I think it would be a nice detail. (I did not take the time to 'cut' my arch stones in the drawing..)



Let me know if it looks good. The only thing I have reservations about at this point is the top course, which is a full header (if I have my terminology right) that spans the inner and outer wall. The only way to make this look any nicer, if I want to is to lower the whole arch one course, making it pretty low. I guess it will have to do. Another thing, which I'm less bothered about is the lower part, where concrete meets brick/surrounding pavement. I think it looks nicer to have a brick sill/doorway.

----------


## tod evans

> Drew up this as a template for the short face. Since theres very little space it was hard to get up with something satisfactory but I think this will do. I'm still contemplating on which and if any bricks I want to have stick out half an inch or so. I think it would be a nice detail. (I did not take the time to 'cut' my arch stones in the drawing..)
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if it looks good. The only thing I have reservations about at this point is the top course, which is a full header (if I have my terminology right) that spans the inner and outer wall. The only way to make this look any nicer, if I want to is to lower the whole arch one course, making it pretty low. I guess it will have to do. Another thing, which I'm less bothered about is the lower part, where concrete meets brick/surrounding pavement. I think it looks nicer to have a brick sill/doorway.


You could try a course of butt ended bricks to denote the floor of the oven instead of a standard course....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You could try a course of butt ended bricks to denote the floor of the oven instead of a standard course....


I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean, would it be a lot of work for you to mark which stones you mean and re-upload the pic ? I'm not sure if you mean the 'oven floor' or the floor inside the wood compartment, the floor which I have poured already.

//Please let me say how much I appreciate having an echo chamber.. I like doing things the way I like but I know I'll regret not listening to good advice later. So I'm paying close attention to what you and others have to say, thanks for the input, it's great. (can't rep you  )

----------


## tod evans

> I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean, would it be a lot of work for you to mark which stones you mean and re-upload the pic ? I'm not sure if you mean the 'oven floor' or the floor inside the wood compartment, the floor which I have poured already.
> 
> //Please let me say how much I appreciate having an echo chamber.. I like doing things the way I like but I know I'll regret not listening to good advice later. So I'm paying close attention to what you and others have to say, thanks for the input, it's great. (can't rep you  )


I have no idea how to edit anything on a 'puter so I'll try to describe it better with words...

At the base of your doorway, the standard course, #2 up, turn the bricks to where you view the ends.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I have no idea how to edit anything on a 'puter so I'll try to describe it better with words...
> 
> At the base of your doorway, the standard course, #2 up, turn the bricks to where you view the ends.


Well no need for that. That's perfectly clear. 

So you mean something like this ?


(the horizontal line you see right above that course is where the actual concrete floor is at, there's still a gap of about an inch between the wall and the masonry, I think I'd fill the gap with a bit of concrete and bevel it up to the floor. Not sure about that yet. I started counting courses from the top, where it has to meet my interior structural wall. I want to use 8mm joints, which are slightly thinner than the more conventional 10 or 12mm joints. I really hate how modern buildings look because of them, old houses here have thin joints, they look a lot nicer imo.)

One other thing, because of the slight slope in the pavement the bottom course won't be seen except on the back side.

ps/ I could get some stone sills to fit on top of that #2 course to meet up with the existing concrete, I'll have to look into that.

----------


## tod evans

To me that looks better...

If you're going for the olde look a Flemish bond would achieve that and it's not difficult to lay..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> To me that looks better...
> 
> If you're going for the olde look a Flemish bond would achieve that and it's not difficult to lay..


I'd argue it is difficult, simply because 6 of the sides of my octagon are only 745mm wide, of which two have an archway. The other two sides are 200mm wider but it still isn't really large enough to make any fancy patterns since they also have arches. I'm not sure, it may be possible on the sides that do not have an arch but it does have to look like at least a bit like it's one structure. lol. I like the pattern but with all the 45 degree corners I fear it may look a bit overdone.

----------


## tod evans

It's common practice to do a Flemish bond veneer just for looks.

Originally it was used structurally. 

Oh....Give thought to the rock sill due to the heat...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's common practice to do a Flemish bond veneer just for looks.
> 
> Originally it was used structurally. 
> 
> Oh....Give thought to the rock sill due to the heat...


There will be no heat at this level, it's where I store my wood. I first have to get this masonry work done, then I pour the base of the oven on top of that. Then the real work starts where I have to use high temp mortar, insulation and heat resistant stones. 

I'll think about it, on the short ends it may be possible, I'll have to produce a few more drawings.. It does look really nice and much nicer certainly than just overlapping. 

lol, I'm building a pizza oven and I'm arguing about the masonry work that supports it. Just my kind of thing, I love this discussion.

----------


## tod evans

Well $#@!!

Here I thought we were discussing the firebox....

The pattern needs to follow through the entire structure whatever you do though..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Well $#@!!
> 
> Here I thought we were discussing the firebox....
> 
> The pattern needs to follow through the entire structure whatever you do though..


Can't do that. I'l have long standing mortar joints at all the 45 degree corners, but I'll reinforce them with stainless steel rods in the mortar. Since there's no real load on this - the interior structure should carry that - that should be fine.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Drawing with the arch stones cut.

----------


## tod evans

Arches get keyed......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Arches get keyed......


I know, what's wrong with my arch ?

----------


## tod evans

Nothing, it's perfectly symmetrical...

I just like a more pronounced key, either thicker brick, different color or texture, something to draw your eye up..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Something like this then. With these stones offset 15mm or about 3/4 inch. Where the bottom 3 courses go round the entire structure and join up the other arches. Just noticed I forgot to do the same with the top course. It does look rather busy on this end, but the four faces that do not have an arch compensate for that.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Nothing, it's perfectly symmetrical...
> 
> I just like a more pronounced key, either thicker brick, different color or texture, something to draw your eye up..





> Something like this then. With these stones offset 15mm or about 3/4 inch.


Oh I see what tod evans is saying, that looks very nice.

----------


## tod evans

Try offsetting just the keystone...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Nothing, it's perfectly symmetrical...
> 
> I just like a more pronounced key, either thicker brick, different color or texture, something to draw your eye up..


I have been looking into that. But I'd have to do four. Which makes it four times more work, I mean fun.. I could make something pretty easily out of some aluminum cement, I'd go wider on the keystone but I wouldn't want it going into the next course, it would look too big compared to the rest. Lets see how inspired I am. I can get some nice raw soapstones as well at a local art supply store. I could venture into carving some keystones. Do I want that though ?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well regardless of any offsetting, I guess a keystone like this looks more attractive.. I'll go along with that.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

What about this ? I do like the offset stones, they make a sort of band around the whole structure and look as if they hold them together. Maybe the bottom 2 courses should be normal... Something to play with but I do like the pattern. It's not exactly that Flemish bond but it's similar, looks decent if you ask me. 

<click to enlarge>

----------


## tod evans

I like it.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Thanks a lot, I'm building it for myself off course but it's a great compliment if other people like it. Especially people that know a lot about building things... Thanks !

----------


## tod evans

You're welcome!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Cool project!

Sportsmans Guide is selling some.  Might give you some ideas...

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...oker?a=1157556
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...oven?a=1714462
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...-oven?a=790502
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...inea?a=1143760
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...oven?a=1559230

Understand you like thin crust, but going the other way for the rest of us... There is a legendary pizza place at the bottom of "The Hill" in Boulder Colorado.  They make pizzas that are kind of a cross between a pizza, and a taco salad and a meatloaf.  Inches of toppings!  I'm sure cooking is a bit different.  I remember it taking a really long time 30+ min.  Something you want to bring friends to help you eat or have food for the week+...

-t

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Cool project!
> 
> Sportsmans Guide is selling some.  Might give you some ideas...
> 
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...oker?a=1157556
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...oven?a=1714462
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...-oven?a=790502
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...inea?a=1143760
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...oven?a=1559230
> ...


I think I have seen the first oven in real life at some sailing event. That's a pretty nice thing and I'd totally get it if I weren't building a stone oven. It's a bit cheaper and more portable. I guess the quality of pizza that coms out is more or less the same. Still it's not the same for me. The second one is nice since it's cheap, I'd get that one just for fun, can't be too bad. 

Yeah I do like thin crust, otherwise it's more of a pie to me. I'm open to other things tough. Sounds like good food. Nothing wrong with that but I'm not sure if I would call it pizza !

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I cut the bricks for the bottom course. I also made templates for the arches out of some leftover bookshelves. The jigsaw I borrowed definitely works better than mine. I have been thinking of ways to get my cord in the right place to mortar everything in place. Since the top of the interior blockwork is level (about 1-2mm difference maximum) I'm thinking of making a framework that sits on top and drops down, I can then turn it 45 degrees and do the next side. Otherwise I'd have to plant a load of sticks and it would make it impossible to walk around the project. I want to start with something that's accurate enough and then use my eye, level and straightedge to determine wether I'm satisfied. The bricks aren't perfect so there's some room to play but things look nicer when they're actually straight.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Had coffee today with my contractor friend that borrowed me the cement mixer, he thought instead of stone sills(not drawn) I could also use masonry sills, which rise a little above the concrete level, I could then level it all with some tiles inside the wood compartment. I have drawn it but I'm not yet sure what I prefer. I'd love some opinions. 

<click to enlarge>

or


Any input is appreciated.

----------


## tod evans

My vote goes to the bottom picture...

----------


## Suzanimal

It took me a few minutes to see the difference but I agree with tod evans, I vote bottom.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I sort of agree, if only because it means I can put more detailing in, such as a tile floor in the wood compartment, totally overdone but not that much more work. It does save me a number of half bricks that I have to cut so +1 for that. I do lose the kind of line that goes from the arch into the standing half bricks but the arches become more 'arch-like'. That probably doesn't mean anything. I guess once it's finished you don't see the things that were once considered, except if you built it. I think it will be option 2..

----------


## tod evans

Now it's time to think about an onion shaped dome.......




(Kidding!)

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Now it's time to think about an onion shaped dome.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Kidding!)


I have considered making the actual dome of the oven an octagon as well since it would require a whole lot less cutting to get very accurate thin joints (1-2mm). The heat distribution and strength of a more round shape are superior though. I still haven't decided anything towards this yet so I'm still open for suggestions, the only thing limiting me is the interior diameter of 40" or 100cm.

----------


## Barrex

To tell you the truth I expected to receive few pizza slices by mail by now.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> To tell you the truth I expected to receive few pizza slices by mail by now.


I'd send you one when it's done but I cannot guarantee that it arrives hot.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So I made a tool to help me with the brickwork, since it's an octagon it was going to be a lot of sticks all around with a lot of work getting everything level. This way I may have to make a minute adjustment but it's easy to confirm if everything is level. I put it in place and then load some weight on top so it doesn't move. And I just turn the whole thing 45 degrees to work on the other sides.

<click to enlarge>






Best of all, I didn't have to go out and buy anything, it was all leftover material or scraps. It should be fine like this, maybe when I get a bit higher I have to change the position of the front brace since that may get into the way a bit. I'm quite satisfied with it and pretty sure this will work.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

We are currently experiencing two weeks of moderately good weather, no rain predicted and temperatures are around 20-24C / 68-75F. So I decided to paint my workshop which had only had a coat of primer and one coat of colored paint. Two sides and the window/door frames to go (different color). Maybe I'll make some mortar after dinner and test if my tool-thingy works. This paint really needs to go on before the winter (at least imo) and these two weeks may be the last chance at several days of good dry weather.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

After painting my workshop the last few days back to the pizza oven, during the first bit of work I snapped this pic:

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Here are some more pics I took where you can sort of see what it's going to look like. I have cut every brick so far to size. Some in half, the bottom course is completely split since I measure the courses from the top I had to do this or there would have been no room for mortar, now it's quite a thick joint. 

<click to enlarge>

As you can see it's quite horrible to reach in and place stones, however I am dealing with it, my back is not liking me. 


Just a reminder that this is not my job, so I can't do this too fast without making mistakes. In the background is some of the paintwork I did earlier this week. 


They must really like pizza a lot on Mars... My pavement looks exactly like Mars' surface. 

My friend, took some time to before we trusted each other but our relationship is very strong. I do use a dust filter in my breathing mask, I have cut a couple stones without it but I end up looking like an idiot with 2 red bars under his nose. It's clay powder, not sure if it's unhealthy but I'm not going to find out.


And I bought 6 pieces of 100cm stainless threaded rod (M6 / approx 1/4 inch) that I will cut up and bend so they can go in to reinforce the corners.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Quick pic... With the brick pattern... Looking quite nice I think.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I have been fighting a bit with the mould for the keystone. Turns out I didn't notice that while drawing it the top and bottom in the drawing weren't exactly parallel but the top line is slightly V-shaped because I had drawn it directly over the bricks I had in the initial drawing. This made the angles different so when I finished sawing once piece I was stunned to find out that the angles were exactly right but for some reason the bottom line was 16mm short. I should have drawn it on the wood from the length of these lines without using the angles... Anyways, it was frustrating since I took the measurements from my 3d drawing and transferred them to a piece of scrap paper.. At first I thought my angle device was wrong, but I had used it a lot before and a 5degree error seemed too much. 

When I drew the keystone again, out of nothing, with the original top/bottom measurements I was amazed to find out that the angles were different, I still didn't know why. So I copied the faulty keystone and placed them on top of each other. It then became apparent that the top line was V-shaped instead of straight.. Luckily I still have some more phenol coated board but it's amazing how much time such a stupid mistake swallows up. 

Also I'm going to use a stone table saw for the rest, the angle grinder works fine but for the really accurate stuff where I don't have the comfort of losing inaccuracy in the joints it's going to be a lot easier. Also it will save me my back. (5/6 stones so far have been cut one or more times..)

At this point I hate myself for the octagon, everything that is giving me a hard time is related to it. But then.. When I stand in front and stare at it, I'm in love with it and it's worth the frustration.

----------


## tod evans

Most anything built looks better with increased difficulty...

Keep on keepin' on...

----------


## presence

You're balls deep now homie, time to cross the river.


2 years ago I changed out my roof.   This past month I decided the moldy kitchen cabinets had to finally go.  That project spiralled out of control into new sheetrock and insulation on 35 feet of exterior wall and foundation.  Which spiralled into new plumbing on the wall... Which spiralled into new electrical in the wall... which spiraled into new electrical in 1/2 of my home when I realized that a good part of my household wall outlets were wired on LAN internet cables with 20 amp breakers.  Yikes!

A few days ago I finally got all the electrical plumbing and insulating done.   Putting up the 10 sheets of sheetrock was a huge turning point.   I have my home back!  New cabinets is going to be next year.  

I suspect once you get your second slab poured you're going to have that same sense of turning point as you transition from foundation work to oven work.

----------


## Barrex

Yesterday i wanted a boiled egg.I put it in small kettle pot added water and on put it on fire. I forgot about it until I heard BOOOM from my kitchen. Freaking egg EXPLODED!!! I dont mean popped I mean exploded. Most of it got glued on ceiling.

I cant believe that egg can explode. How? 

Now I have to repaint my kitchen. Stains cant be removed.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Most anything built looks better with increased difficulty...
> 
> Keep on keepin' on...


I have wanted a pizza oven for about 10 years, so a couple weeks/months isn't the problem.. I totally agree that you need a bit of complexity for beauty although it's a fine line. I must say I appreciate the encouragement a lot, can't say that much about my friends here at home. They mostly think I am taking too long. I agree that it's taking a long time but I'd rather spread it out than compromise on detail. 





> You're balls deep now homie, time to cross the river.
> 
> 
> 2 years ago I changed out my roof.   This past month I decided the moldy kitchen cabinets had to finally go.  That project spiralled out of control into new sheetrock and insulation on 35 feet of exterior wall and foundation.  Which spiralled into new plumbing on the wall... Which spiralled into new electrical in the wall... which spiraled into new electrical in 1/2 of my home when I realized that a good part of my household wall outlets were wired on LAN internet cables with 20 amp breakers.  Yikes!
> 
> A few days ago I finally got all the electrical plumbing and insulating done.   Putting up the 10 sheets of sheetrock was a huge turning point.   I have my home back!  New cabinets is going to be next year.


Oh my. That wiring stuff is really worrying. Good thing you got that done. Stuff like that is a very good at burning your house down. I really like old houses, but if I ever move to another old house it's going to stripped down and all the electricity/plumbing would be replaced. 

Ripping half your house apart is a lot of fun (no it's not), especially if you find more horror behind what you stripped out. Then again, the reward for getting it done is that much greater. 

Are you going to make your cabinets from sheets or full hardwood ?




> I suspect once you get your second slab poured you're going to have that same sense of turning point as you transition from foundation work to oven work.


Yeah that is the milestone I am looking forward at. I really hope I can get that done in a reasonable amount of time. The table saw should make it a lot easier. 

The funniest thing is, initially I thought the dome was going to be the biggest job in this project, I WAS WRONG.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yesterday i wanted a boiled egg.I put it in small kettle pot added water and on put it on fire. I forgot about it until I heard BOOOM from my kitchen. Freaking egg EXPLODED!!! I dont mean popped I mean exploded. Most of it got glued on ceiling.
> 
> I cant believe that egg can explode. How? 
> 
> Now I have to repaint my kitchen. Stains cant be removed.


Could be air trapped inside the egg that expanded, increasing the pressure. Egg shells are pretty tough even though they break easily, the membrane that surrounds the egg helps with that.. There are poky-things that you can use to relieve your egg from such pressure. I must say I never use my poky-thing and eggs have not exploded here before. I do have a cracked egg from time to time. 

<HACCP nazi>Repaint your kitchen ? Kitchens should have tiles for hygiene. </HACCP nazi>

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

While replying to your posts, thanks for those by the way, I forgot I was going to post that I just filled the keystone mould with some concrete. I tapped on it for a couple minutes, lots of air-bubles came out. I did not tap until all the bubbles were gone but I hope it's enough to get the faces of the concrete nice and smooth. This is a test with regular concrete, for the actual keystones I am going to use some ferrite in the mix (black iron oxide). This will darken the concrete a bit. I will also use some of this in my pointing mortar.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Yesterday i wanted a boiled egg.I put it in small kettle pot added water and on put it on fire. I forgot about it until I heard BOOOM from my kitchen. Freaking egg EXPLODED!!! I dont mean popped I mean exploded. Most of it got glued on ceiling.
> 
> I cant believe that egg can explode. How? 
> 
> Now I have to repaint my kitchen. Stains cant be removed.


I've done that too.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Mould filled... Also gives an impression of what the corners are going to look like.

----------


## Barrex

> Could be air trapped inside the egg that expanded, increasing the pressure. Egg shells are pretty tough even though they break easily, the membrane that surrounds the egg helps with that.. There are poky-things that you can use to relieve your egg from such pressure. I must say I never use my poky-thing and eggs have not exploded here before. I do have a cracked egg from time to time. 
> 
> <HACCP nazi>Repaint your kitchen ? Kitchens should have tiles for hygiene. </HACCP nazi>


It got ceramic tiles on the walls but not on the ceiling. Hazard Analysis & Critical Control Points (HACCP)? Strange to have "poky-thing" and HACCP in same post.

I figured out that it was air expansion that caused it to explode but it surpried me how much force it had in it.



P.s.

I will probably try to recreate explosion one more time before I start with repainting.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It got ceramic tiles on the walls but not on the ceiling. Hazard Analysis & Critical Control Points (HACCP)? Strange to have "poky-thing" and HACCP in same post.
> 
> I figured out that it was air expansion that caused it to explode but it surpried me how much force it had in it.
> 
> 
> P.s.
> 
> I will probably try to recreate explosion one more time before I start with repainting.


You can always recreate the explosion on a hotplate outdoors, then you don't have to scrape the egg of your walls and ceiling. Yeah well.. Poky-thing may not be the best word for it. But it's a needle in a plastic thing that you poke a tiny hole with in the egg.


I took the mould off and I am pretty satisfied with the end product. I think with these temperatures 55-65F 12 hours is a good time to de-mould.


Sharp ends filed down a bit to reduce the chance of breaking edges.


The mould worked fine, came off easily. Little cleaning and it can be reused.

----------


## tod evans

Furniture paste wax makes a decent form release agent...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Furniture paste wax makes a decent form release agent...


I'm going to order the pigments today or tomorrow, good idea to add some wax. It did come off really easily though. 
I'm pleased with the amount of air bubbles near the surface, I could have tapped it for a few more minutes but I think it's ok as it is. I think it will look really nice with a bit darker color.

----------


## tod evans

> I'm going to order the pigments today or tomorrow, good idea to add some wax. It did come off really easily though. 
> I'm pleased with the amount of air bubbles near the surface, I could have tapped it for a few more minutes but I think it's ok as it is. I think it will look really nice with a bit darker color.


A vibrating sander with extra coarse paper makes an improvised concrete vibrator...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> A vibrating sander with extra coarse paper makes an improvised concrete vibrator...


I don't have one. I could probably borrow a vibrator from my neighbors.  /jk although I probably could. 
I might try the big concrete vibrator, although it's twice as big as the block I'm making. I was considering using a hammer-drill with some homemade tool but tapping seems more reasonable since I only have to make 4 of these. (apart from the concrete foundation I have mixed all the mortar by hand, doesn't take too much effort to make a bucket at a time, and since I have to do a lot of adjusting of my guide in between courses/sides it makes no sense to make a batch with the concrete mixer.)

----------


## presence

> A vibrating sander with extra coarse paper makes an improvised concrete vibrator...





> I might try the big concrete vibrator,  although it's twice as big as the block I'm making.




Friend-of-a-friend's girlfriend tried using a concrete vibe.  Broke her hip.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Friend-of-a-friend's girlfriend tried using a concrete vibe.  Broke her hip.


Yeah the other way around is probably a bad idea...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Didn't have a lot of time to work on it during the week, weekend now so I'm putting in some work. Here are some pics of how it's progressing. 


Now I don't have to work that low to the ground anymore it really saves my back.


Pattern looks really satisfying.


The bottom of the arch opening, also shows the stainless rod I put in to reinforce the corners.


Leftovers that are still useful. I won't post the scraps pile.. I didn't break any bricks but the scraps keep piling up!

Christmas should still be a viable goal although at only three months away, that is only 12 weekends.. No hurry though. I talked to my contractor friend about what to do on top, and he persuaded to make the top structure (the exterior) out of stone as well. My initial idea was to use wood on the top that compliments my workshop. His idea however was to go from an octagon into a circle/ellipse. Instead of having straight sides it would look more like some of those old kilns, I could then also have a more natural transition into the chimney. And best of all, if the elongated-octagon goes into an circle-ish shape I'd have spots to put my beer on all the corners.. I'm working on a drawing for this, I can imagine my description is not that enlightening..

Also got some firewood today, not too much (half a cord or so). Glad it's not more because it's birch and oak but feels way too light. It's very dry wood but it's too light so I bet we burn through this in a few weeks. Evenings and nights are getting colder so the stove is back in business.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I haven't posted much here recently. I cut all the bricks up until the oven foundation can be poured, about 200 bricks. I have one arch set up with wedges to see what it's going to look like, each stone has to have 12,5 degrees difference with the next one so it should be easy to get them in really straight and even. 

Today I ripped out the old bathroom, it had been there for 27 years, we're replacing everything this week. Apart from that I have been repairing some windows that have some rot in the frames... Boring stuff that has to be done before winter. 

Also, I have a lot of respect for people that still use hand tools for their woodworking. I can't afford proper hand tools at this moment, I mean, a good saw costs about as much as the electrical equivalent... So I'm going to buy a new chop saw because I frequently get my blood boiling when my old handsaws combined with a lack of patience makes something less than perfectly straight. Looked through some reviews and figured that the cheapest ones suck, so I'm going for this one, I have used it's bigger brother and that is a real nice machine (twice as expensive and I don't need to cut through 6 inches).



It should help me make these frames/jigs much quicker and better... I'm really starting to make a transition from 'diy' to more professional work and I like it.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Got black dye and furniture wax (bee wax although it smells very much like turpentine). I made a new mould because when I sawed the arch bricks I accidentally undercut the wedges a little bit which makes the keystone a bit less wide. The shape of the arch also looks better this way. I poured the first keystone with black dye this afternoon and I'm taking it out of the mould tomorrow morning. I'll make some pics tomorrow.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I am very busy with remodeling the bathroom, currently I can still shower but I need a torch for light... I'm not able to work on the oven this week.


The three keystone tests, the first one regular cement. The second one is the actual size it's going to be with 5% coloring and the right one is with 3% coloring. I took the middle one out of the mould a bit early and I tried to tap it out without taking any pieces off the mould, that didn't work. 


The arch set up with wedges.


All other bricks have been cut, sorted and stacked.


New saw.

----------


## Suzanimal

Wow, I am so impressed. Great job!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well I've mostly been working on the new bathroom.. But I did manage to get a load of test-keystones cast. I have a new version, slightly slimmer. And I'm casting them half as long. I made a mould that casts 4 at a time so I make one batch and don't have a difference in color. At first I was mixing in the color at 5% volume, since that is how you measure cement/concrete. Turns out this stuff has to be added by wt% of the cement... So I can add about 1/3 more than I did before which gives a much darker, closer to black color. 

The tests I made still have a few air bubbles, I tried the big concrete vibrator but probably was a bit too conservative since I didn't want to ruin the homogeneity. I'm also going to add a drop of surfactant, regular dish soap, to help with taking out the air bubbles. If this doesn't work, well then... I'll do with a few air bubbles, it doesn't look totally horrible either.

So I mortared an arch into place, but didn't put the keystone in at the front. Since they're shorter now I did put one of the test keystones in the back and a piece of wood cut to the right angle in front(yay @ the new saw). I have a brick weighing down on the piece of wood but I took that off for the photo. 


Also I finally got this old desk (about 1890) that I bought two years ago but was still stored at the seller, it's in pretty decent shape overall. Nothing really broken off. Dovetails still pretty good although some idiot tried to glue things together with expanding glue that looks really ugly. Luckily this stuff is coming loose easily and after removing it the dovetails fit better than they did with that glue.. Great, still quite a lot of work in this thing to get it to where I want. I sanded part of the work surface and there's only one nasty stain that requires some bleaching..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Wow, I am so impressed. Great job!


I'm too busy with getting my bathroom and more importantly shower back up that I forget to thank you ! Thanks.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I'm too busy with getting my bathroom and more importantly shower back up that I forget to thank you ! Thanks.


No problem, the pizza ovens's looking good and that desk is going to be beautiful when it gets refinished. I love roll top desks.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> No problem, the pizza ovens's looking good and that desk is going to be beautiful when it gets refinished. I love roll top desks.


I love antiques that are still a bit modest. Too much decoration is something I don't like. I had been looking for this style desk for a long time but I think I'm going to try to sell it when I'm done with it, when I don't get the price I want for it I'll keep it, bummer .

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

The bathroom is almost finished now, currently I can't take any showers . On monday, maybe tuesday we can't use the toilet so we'll have to use the upstairs one, fun! 

Even though the arches are relatively simple to do, I did manage to mess it up and I had to take them all apart at least one time before they had the right shape. The front looked good however the joint thickness towards the back varies very easily and since there's no way for me to check inside the mould I only found out later. But I have started this, so I'll have to finish it.

I'm quite proud of what it's starting to look like.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Earlier in this topic I said I wasn't doing this professionally. I am not, however I have found that this type of work makes me far happier than what I have been doing for the last couple of years; writing insignificant magazine articles. I am therefore thinking of somewhat of a career-change. Apart from the supply of writing work drying up a bit I never got mental energy from writing, instead it drained my reserves. I have found that even though making (not average stuff, not my thing) things is more physical, it does reward me with a lot of mental energy. I'm not the kind of person that does very well working for the average boss so I'll have to figure out a few things as I'm not ready to work for myself (lack of capital and experience as well to be honest). I do have some options that will hopefully get me started. 

This oven is not the first thing I've built, it is however the first significant thing I have designed and (so far) built entirely by myself. It has given me a lot of insight in what I actually like to do. Everyone reading this topic and replying to this so far has been a great motivating factor in this, thanks for that ! You have helped me realize what my calling in life is. Making stuff.. Great and thanks a lot !

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I just did the pointing on the lowest courses so the paving around it can be restored. 
I used pretty dark mortar, with plenty of coloring. 

It's dark outside already but I'll try to make a pic after dinner.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

This is what it looks like now. The rest of the pointing work will probably be done with a lighter mortar. Dark stuff near the ground looks good though. It's recessed a little bit for good looks. I personally like this better since theres a bit more depth than when everything is flat. 

What do you guys think, does it look good ?

----------


## Suzanimal

> This is what it looks like now. The rest of the pointing work will probably be done with a lighter mortar. Dark stuff near the ground looks good though. It's recessed a little bit for good looks. I personally like this better since theres a bit more depth than when everything is flat. 
> 
> What do you guys think, does it look good ?


It looks fabulous!!! Great job!

----------


## tod evans

> This is what it looks like now. *The rest of the pointing work will probably be done with a lighter mortar.* Dark stuff near the ground looks good though. It's recessed a little bit for good looks. I personally like this better since theres a bit more depth than when everything is flat. 
> 
> What do you guys think, does it look good ?


I don't care for two-tone mortar jobs...

What you've done looks fantastic, why change?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It looks fabulous!!! Great job!


Thanks !! When the paving is back in it will look a bit more normal again. Less dirt and stuff as well, makes work easier. 




> I don't care for two-tone mortar jobs...
> 
> What you've done looks fantastic, why change?


Well You are actually the first to say this. Pretty much everyone I've talked to about this has said not to use the dark mortar on top. I don't know why, initially I was planning on doing it all this way. 

I still have time to think about it though. I had leftover mortar from the guy who put in the new bathroom floor and the consistency was perfect for pointing so I threw in some coloring and went to work. This stuff has had an inhibitor of some kind mixed into it so the mortar sets really slow. I was able to work with it up to 8 hours after it was mixed, really cool stuff.

Well.. Convince me, on the coloring.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I have been drawing a bit. This is one of the sections I drew.


These will be the final dimensions of the oven. I realize I did not put any horizontal dimensions in there; the oven floor is 1000mm (so half of it 500mm). The rest should be easy to deduce from the vertical measurements since these should be identical.

The chimney is going to be pretty big. Big chimneys are always cool though so no problem there. The reason is that I want a 200mm / 8" channel. I will use (probably) double walled flexible liner which has an actual diameter of something like 220mm and you need a bit of space to pack it with vermiculate or other heat resistant insulation. Then there's the face brick.. So the chimney will be a little under 2ft diameter and as of this moment not yet round!

(right part of the drawing is something I'm still considering, a full stone thickness floor. More fuel to start but more heat retention.)

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I have gotten some nice wood to make a countertop out of. Any guesses to what type of wood this is ? It's pretty dense wood though it's not hard as rock. No prize for getting it right beyond +rep and a lot of respect. (they are approx 6" wide by 1 3/4" thick (or so, we do decimals here, 150x40 or so, still rough.))

----------


## amy31416

> The bathroom is almost finished now, currently I can't take any showers . On monday, maybe tuesday we can't use the toilet so we'll have to use the upstairs one, fun! 
> 
> Even though the arches are relatively simple to do, I did manage to mess it up and I had to take them all apart at least one time before they had the right shape. The front looked good however the joint thickness towards the back varies very easily and since there's no way for me to check inside the mould I only found out later. But I have started this, so I'll have to finish it.
> 
> I'm quite proud of what it's starting to look like.


My god, that's looking good.

----------


## tod evans

> I have gotten some nice wood to make a countertop out of. Any guesses to what type of wood this is ? It's pretty dense wood though it's not hard as rock. No prize for getting it right beyond +rep and a lot of respect. (they are approx 6" wide by 1 3/4" thick (or so, we do decimals here, 150x40 or so, still rough.))


Wenge.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> My god, that's looking good.


Thanks !! I'm starting to be slightly emotional over all the cool responses I am getting. 

I also got myself a little gift, an assortment of different hardwoods. Anyone that likes wood must like this !

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Wenge.


Well that's a downer. That is correct...

----------


## presence

nice tod, I was leaning black walnut but I knew that wasn't right

I'll give a go at this pic, though its never easy from afar.  




*tall stack on left from top down*

wenge
fir
zebrawood
chestnut
mahogany
curly maple
cherry
white oak
ash

*small board by itself on left*

red alder

*middle stack top down
*
cumaru
elm
purple heart
Brazilian koa
poplar plywood


*right stack top down
*
cedarbirch
white pine
Brazilian cherry
red oak




lol I probably failed.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> nice tod, I was leaning black walnut but I knew that wasn't right
> 
> I'll give a go at this pic, though its never easy from afar.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *tall stack on left from top down*
> 
> ...


I'd say about half are correct. I don't know all of them either, they aren't all marked!! Should be easy to figure out though, this hardwood supplier only has 100+ different types of wood, lol. 

I'll see if I can compare your list tomorrow! I'd say you did pretty well from this single pic.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

This is what I know for certain (or pretty sure). Maybe I'll post pics of the individual ones I don't know, there seems to be a lot of wood knowledge around here and I like learning.




> *tall stack on left from top down*
> 
> wenge - American walnut
> fir - Linden (apparently also known as basswood)
> *zebrawood - correct!*
> chestnut - Elm
> *mahogany - correct!*
> *curly maple - correct!*
> cherry - Spanish cedar (stuff they use in humidors)
> ...

----------


## Suzanimal

This is cool. It looks inexpensive, within my skill set, and I like playing in mud. A win, win, win, for me. I'm a little confused about where the food goes, it looks like there's only one opening.



http://www.theyearofmud.com/2009/09/...ob-pizza-oven/




Also, I saw this pic and imagine this is how luctor sleeps.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> This is cool. It looks inexpensive, within my skill set, and I like playing in mud. A win, win, win, for me. I'm a little confused about where the food goes, it looks like there's only one opening.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theyearofmud.com/2009/09/...ob-pizza-oven/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I saw this pic and imagine this is how luctor sleeps.


Yeah there is only one opening. When you bake bread you take out the fire as soon as it reached a high enough temperature. Put an insulating door in and wait. When you make pizza you push the fire to one side so it keeps heating the oven while the entrance is open. This is is why good insulation is vital, it saves you a lot of fuel!



I'm sorry to inform you that that is not how I sleep, although, it would be appropriate.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Yeah there is only one opening. When you bake bread you take out the fire as soon as it reached a high enough temperature. Put an insulating door in and wait. When you make pizza you push the fire to one side so it keeps heating the oven while the entrance is open. This is is why good insulation is vital, it saves you a lot of fuel!


I wonder if I could just build a fire pit in the bottom. It seems like moving the fire would be a pain in the butt and I'd probably end up burning myself. It also seems like you would get ash in your food. Eww...





> I'm sorry to inform you that that is not how I sleep, although, it would be appropriate.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I wonder if I could just build a fire pit in the bottom. It seems like moving the fire would be a pain in the butt and I'd probably end up burning myself. It also seems like you would get ash in your food. Eww...


Actually I don't know if wood ash is that bad for you, provided it's from clean wood. It's mostly potassium minerals and some of the other minerals that you can't burn off such as carbon and nitrogen in the wood. I wouldn't say eat it but I wouldn't worry about it either. 

It's definitely easier to make an oven where you make you fire on the oven floor, a separate firebox is possible but it's going to require a lot more planning.

----------


## amy31416

> I wonder if I could just build a fire pit in the bottom. It seems like moving the fire would be a pain in the butt and I'd probably end up burning myself. It also seems like you would get ash in your food. Eww...


You use a shovel-type pizza-scoopy thing, it has a long handle...you just shove the wood or coals to the sides with it after it's properly heated (about 800F), then use the same utensil to shovel your pizza in the center. If it's thin enough (and it should be pretty thin--take it easy on toppings too), it only takes about 2-3 minutes to cook.

----------


## Suzanimal

I like 'em all.

Maybe I'm..
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/d...ality-disorder




> Discover your inner pizza-nality
> 
> our inner psyche can be summed up according to your favourite pizza topping, according to world-renowned Smell and Taste expert Dr Alan Hirsch, who teamed up with PizzaExpress to identify what the most popular pizza toppings suggest about someone’s personality. Dr Hirsch’s study also reveals which are the most romantically compatible.
> 
> ...
> 
> The report looked at eight pizzas, which included five top sellers and three new additions to PizzaExpress’ menu. The Pizza Personalities were then generated using a pool of 500 British adults who took part in a comprehensive range of psychiatric and personality tests. Dr Hirsch used a bespoke form of ‘Pizza Rorschach’ testing – similar to the inkblot tests used to decipher underlying character traits – to analyse what favourite toppings say about a person.
> Among the other discoveries were that people who love a debate or might be described as cautious or good with money would usually opt for a creamy béchamel-based pizza, while having goat’s cheese on your doughy dish means you are most likely to be sensitive and easy-going.
> Personality dictates choice of food
> ...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Yeah, well, not much progress here... Working on other peoples' beautiful stuff right now. I guess I am no longer an amateur builder. I am now working for the contractor and expert carpenter/builder that I made my workshop with and that helped me brainstorm this oven.. Not a lot of time to work on other projects as I still have another part time job to do.

I'll try to get the foundation stuff all done so I can start on the oven in spring. With the amount of experience I am gaining right now this should go a bit faster. As soon as I have some time. My time is getting scarce, luckily I know a bit about economics and scarce goods... Well you know the drill.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I have gotten some nice wood to make a countertop out of. Any guesses to what type of wood this is ? It's pretty dense wood though it's not hard as rock. No prize for getting it right beyond +rep and a lot of respect. (they are approx 6" wide by 1 3/4" thick (or so, we do decimals here, 150x40 or so, still rough.))


These boards have now been glued up. We routed a slot in the sides, about 5/8" deep and 1/2" high. We used strips cut from the excess to fill these slots. Like with a biscuit joiner but then full length. Because we don't have a biscuit joiner and using the same wood makes it easier to route the openings for the ceramic bowls without having biscuits visible. We made another board to use as a table top for the sink in the toilet.. Same wood, same style, that should be nice. Apart from some sawdust I have a nice reference piece of Wenge left. Overall it's really nice wood but I think it's definitely better to work with power tools than hand-tools, it really likes to tear out. 

Still a couple more days of vacation. I hope the weather is mild so I can cut the last number of stones I need for the pizza oven base. This project has been sitting idle for nearly two months now and I'm getting a bit restless but freezing weather doesn't make it easier. I don't want to put the tile-saw outside either when it rains (it's electric). And using it inside is not an option since it sprays a mixture of water and brick dust out of the end...

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> This is what I know for certain (or pretty sure). Maybe I'll post pics of the individual ones I don't know, there seems to be a lot of wood knowledge around here and I like learning.


Was the first picture with the single stack of wood Bocote?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Was the first picture with the single stack of wood Bocote?


No, it's actually Wenge (which was mentioned but I don't blame you for missing that in this giant topic).

I looked it up since this woods look very similar but they are not very close family. It certainly seems to be similar in appearance to Wenge. It seems to be similar in other major characteristics as well. 
I must say I had not heard of this species of wood before.. So I learned something new today, cool!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I like winter but I wish it were a bit warmer so I could work on the oven again. I haven't even finished my own and I have got someone who wants me to build one for them. A year ago I was slightly underemployed, right now I've got more work than I can handle... Not sure if I'll even have time left to make pizza's when my oven is done... 

I thought I might give this topic a little nudge... Spring is about 2 months away. I've got the bricks cut to finish the base. All I need is suitable weather to work with masonry cement.

----------


## tod evans

> Not sure if I'll even have time left to make pizza's when my oven is done... 
> .


 *NO!* Whatever is going on, other than a severely sick child, can wait on pizza!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> *NO!* Whatever is going on, other than a severely sick child, can wait on pizza!


Well I don't have kids. Although I take care of my pets as if they are... 

I'm ashamed to admit that in the last couple of months I haven't made that many pizzas.. Less then once a week and usually no more than 3 or 4. On the upside, I've been able to spend a lot more money on tools I want, which is just about as good as pizza.. I know it's not a pizza substitute but I'll live with it !

----------


## tod evans

Once you're done acquiring all the tailed tools you need you're in the right geographical location to search out the nice original cordless ones;

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

One can only dream about a toolbox that nice...

I really like high end hand tools though, as accurate as the user, unlike some (most) power tools.

----------


## tod evans

> One can only dream about a toolbox that nice...
> 
> I really like high end hand tools though, as accurate as the user, unlike some (most) power tools.


Kind of out of place in a thread about masonry and pizza...........Sorry..

----------


## presence

Make sure you keep your work covered.  Ice can ruin something like that fast without weather shed.

----------


## TomKat

I follow a family on youtube that moved to the Ozarks to go off the grid and become self sustaining. In this episode the built a brick pizza oven. Figured I would share it. I like all of their videos, very interesting. The old guy with the gun on his side, yeah, that's me in 25 years. Lol!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Make sure you keep your work covered.  Ice can ruin something like that fast without weather shed.


I've had it covered for a couple of weeks already, ever since it appeared winter was coming. I did find that some of my unused bricks were frozen together, no apparent damage so I covered those as well, the freezing weather is going away next week, we'll probably get another round later so lets hope I don't have to get new ones. Although, I have to get new bricks anyways, I only had about 80 left and I still need a few hundred I think. 




> Kind of out of place in a thread about masonry and pizza...........Sorry..


Well there's no pizza here now so nice tools is a good substitute.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I follow a family on youtube that moved to the Ozarks to go off the grid and become self sustaining. In this episode the built a brick pizza oven. Figured I would share it. I like all of their videos, very interesting. The old guy with the gun on his side, yeah, that's me in 25 years. Lol!


Thats a pretty simple but decent oven but perfect to cook in just as any other, might not be so practical for pizza's though. Without the door it loses too much heat and with the door it's kinda hard to make a pizza a minute... Good for pretty much anything else though. Thanks for sharing.

----------


## tod evans

> I follow a family on youtube that moved to the Ozarks to go off the grid and become self sustaining. In this episode the built a brick pizza oven. Figured I would share it. I like all of their videos, very interesting. *The old guy with the gun on his side*, yeah, that's me in 25 years. Lol!


The _young father_ who is shown carrying a plastic gun looks to be in his early 30's........

Took me a bit since they don't tell ya' up front but it looks like their lil' farm is in Madison County Ar.

----------


## TomKat

> The _young father_ who is shown carrying a plastic gun looks to be in his early 30's........
> 
> Took me a bit since they don't tell ya' up front but it looks like their lil' farm is in Madison County Ar.


Lol, Zac is younger than me. I was talking about his father-in-law, Tim, with the white beard. He has a revolver.

----------


## tod evans

> Lol, Zac is younger than me. I was talking about his father-in-law, Tim, with the white beard. He has a revolver.


It's bad when iron in leather is so common I don't even notice it........Well actually it's good...

I do, for some reason, notice plastic guns?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's bad when iron in leather is so common I don't even notice it........Well actually it's good...
> 
> I do, for some reason, notice plastic guns?


They melt when they get too close to the pizza oven...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I have decided that spring has arrived! We actually got some nice sunny weather yesterday. Not too much wind and several degrees above freezing. We may still get some very light freezing by night but I'll ignore that. 

I've put the tile-saw outside, ready to make any of the strange cut bricks that I couldn't saw in advance. I hope to get the exterior brick wall up to the same level as the supporting blocks in the middle. Today that is.

I have quit using the frame with the piece of string as a guide, it took too much time to set up. Instead I now have a small X-Y bubble-level screwed onto a piece of hardwood plywood that I use while cementing bricks in place. I also made a jig that clamps on the interior walls and has a nail in the exact center. I attached an arm to this jig that I made sure was level. Then I measured up from the brick wall and scribed horizontal lines on the block wall, 58mm apart. 50 for the stone, 8 for the joint. 

These lines are my guide for the height of the bricks, then I use a level both as a straightedge to make sure the wall is flat as well as vertical. Then I just put the small level on top of the bricks and see if they need some tappin'. 

So yeah, winter is over, this project has been revived.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I have decided that spring has arrived! We actually got some nice sunny weather yesterday. Not too much wind and several degrees above freezing. We may still get some very light freezing by night but I'll ignore that. 
> 
> I've put the tile-saw outside, ready to make any of the strange cut bricks that I couldn't saw in advance. I hope to get the exterior brick wall up to the same level as the supporting blocks in the middle. Today that is.
> 
> I have quit using the frame with the piece of string as a guide, it took too much time to set up. Instead I now have a small X-Y bubble-level screwed onto a piece of hardwood plywood that I use while cementing bricks in place. I also made a jig that clamps on the interior walls and has a nail in the exact center. I attached an arm to this jig that I made sure was level. Then I measured up from the brick wall and scribed horizontal lines on the block wall, 58mm apart. 50 for the stone, 8 for the joint. 
> 
> These lines are my guide for the height of the bricks, then I use a level both as a straightedge to make sure the wall is flat as well as vertical. Then I just put the small level on top of the bricks and see if they need some tappin'. 
> 
> *So yeah, winter is over, this project has been revived.*


Yay!!!!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I got a bit further today, then had to run some errands and now I have to cook... Nonetheless it should be at the top of the keystones by the end of the week. Sadly I'll only have an hour a day to work on it, and it shouldn't rain. Maybe I'll cut some more bricks after dinner, we'll see. 

I'll try to snap a few pics and upload them tonight but my neighbors asked me to have a drink later.. I'm too busy lately.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

No damage from freezing but I did notice that some lime-ish material must have been on the brush I used to clean the bricks before winter. Sucks but I can probably get that cleaned off later when I'm doing all the joints. 

Almost ready to pour the oven slab. Apart from the staining I'm quite pleased with how it's turning out.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Covered up again... I guess we're getting a period of continuous rain now the winter is over. If the weather doesn't mess with my schedule I'll be pouring the oven base on Wednesday. At least this phase of the project is almost done... Can't wait until I can stack some wood in here.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Of course the weather is not helping me out, but why am I complaining, usually it would be freezing right now. Thank you global warming... I was thinking about this; someone I know - wouldn't call him a friend - complained that my pizza oven would be bad for the environment and global warming. I told him he was full of crap and it's actually his electric oven that's worse.. A wood fired oven essentially runs on solar power, but it's a much more direct cycle than coal which is something we dig up the entire earth for. I have nothing against coal either but I wouldn't want to run my oven on it. 

So I'm busy (well waiting mostly) pouring some cornerstones with the same dark concrete mix that I've used before. I get pretty similar colors from different batches so that's under control. Also I figured out a way to vibe the concrete. I had one of those broken paint mixers, which is essentially a hexagonal rod after the mixer head snapped off. Bent it a little bit and inserted it into a 'bankstick' something we use with fishing, essentially a metal tube with a pointy thing on the other end. I hold the bankstick and insert the slightly bent rod. Drill set to high speed and it vibrates pretty much like the large concrete vibe that's too big for my moulds. 

I thought I could remove the cast concrete after 24 hours but it's slightly too risky, lots of edges break off. After 48hrs this risk is much lower. 

I've also figured out that there are downsides to an octagon, 1) 4 more corners than a rectangle or square 2) 4 more corners... So my nice idea of having corner stones means I'm having to make 8. I'd much rather have bought these things since it's a PITA to make every detail I want but there really aren't many specialty brick/stone places around here. It's really sad actually, a lot of old buildings here have a huge amount of detail-work but these days everything is simple and straight. While I was figuring out how to make the roof/rest of the enclosure I wanted to find small roofing tiles. I'll probably have to drive to Belgium in order to get them.. They only use a few types around here. 

It's raining like crazy right now, when it has cleared I'll snap a pic.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

4 cornerstones setting. Two pieces of rebar have been added so they can be tied in with the oven slab. This is to further strengthen the 45 degree corners where the bricks don't overlap. These cornerstones will be the first actual overlap. Apart from that there's just the SS rods that reinforce these joints. 


One of the test cornerstones where it would be placed. Also visible are the ugly white spots  . It will look much better once they have been removed.

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## luctor-et-emergo

So I found some time to work on the oven again.. A little bit of progress. I could have made this a lot easier for myself but I had to make it look nice.. Well I'm quite satisfied with what it's starting to look like. 



The anchors that are in the cornerstones will be cast into the concrete slab. This should keep everything together nicely over the years. There are still a couple of bricks to cement into place and I want to render the inside before I'm going to pour the slab, apart from that everything is done.

I'm not yet entirely certain how these white spots work. I'm fairly certain they are from lime. It either comes from water that's drawn up or from rainwater that can still work it's way down since there's no roof or anything like it. I'll probably give the whole thing a little acid wash when it's done.

----------


## osan

> So I found some time to work on the oven again.. A little bit of progress. I could have made this a lot easier for myself but I had to make it look nice.. Well I'm quite satisfied with what it's starting to look like. 
> 
> 
> 
> The anchors that are in the cornerstones will be cast into the concrete slab. This should keep everything together nicely over the years. There are still a couple of bricks to cement into place and I want to render the inside before I'm going to pour the slab, apart from that everything is done.
> 
> I'm not yet entirely certain how these white spots work. I'm fairly certain they are from lime. It either comes from water that's drawn up or from rainwater that can still work it's way down since there's no roof or anything like it. I'll probably give the whole thing a little acid wash when it's done.



Your photos are no-shows.  If you are pouring a slab that you fell may be under any stress and wear, put in rebar.  Rebar completely alters the nature of the concrete, as a whole.  I am dead-serious about this.  If this is a no-big-deal-if-it-cracks thing, then forget it.  But if you do not want it to break, rebar it.  Don't need a $#@!-ton of it, but perhaps every 8-12 inches. 

I recently poured a 100-ton floor under my house.  It is 12" thick and is laced with mesh in the middle - 2 layers @ about 4" and 8", and 3 full runs of #5 rebar (5/8") along the footings.  Nothing short of a direct hit by a strategic nuke is going to budge this thing.

Once again, do this only if the long-term integrity is important to you.  If it is and you want to verify what I write here, you can do a fast and easy experiment.  Pour a 6" thick slab, 12"wide by 24" long.  Rebar one end, leave the other end alone.  Let it set for a few days, then get out your demolition tools and start breaking it up.  The unreinforced section will break apart readily.  You will have a complete and utter $#@! trying to break up the reinforced bit, even with crappy sak-rete, which is only about 1500-2000 psi mix.  I would also be certain to use nothing less than a 4Kpsi mix, preferably 6K.  That way, you will never in your great great great grandchildren's great great great great grandchildren's lives have to worry about it doing things you do not want it to do... except to be impossible to remove without leaving your nuts on the ground. 


ETA: Just saw post above the one with no photos.  I see you already have that bull by the balls.  

Carry on sir.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Your photos are no-shows.  If you are pouring a slab that you fell may be under any stress and wear, put in rebar.  Rebar completely alters the nature of the concrete, as a whole.  I am dead-serious about this.  If this is a no-big-deal-if-it-cracks thing, then forget it.  But if you do not want it to break, rebar it.  Don't need a $#@!-ton of it, but perhaps every 8-12 inches. 
> 
> I recently poured a 100-ton floor under my house.  It is 12" thick and is laced with mesh in the middle - 2 layers @ about 4" and 8", and 3 full runs of #5 rebar (5/8") along the footings.  Nothing short of a direct hit by a strategic nuke is going to budge this thing.
> 
> Once again, do this only if the long-term integrity is important to you.  If it is and you want to verify what I write here, you can do a fast and easy experiment.  Pour a 6" thick slab, 12"wide by 24" long.  Rebar one end, leave the other end alone.  Let it set for a few days, then get out your demolition tools and start breaking it up.  The unreinforced section will break apart readily.  You will have a complete and utter $#@! trying to break up the reinforced bit, even with crappy sak-rete, which is only about 1500-2000 psi mix.  I would also be certain to use nothing less than a 4Kpsi mix, preferably 6K.  That way, you will never in your great great great grandchildren's great great great great grandchildren's lives have to worry about it doing things you do not want it to do... except to be impossible to remove without leaving your nuts on the ground. 
> 
> 
> ETA: Just saw post above the one with no photos.  I see you already have that bull by the balls.  
> 
> Carry on sir.


Lol thanks ! I'll +rep you for the effort of writing that advice. Even though the issue has already been taken care of, I can only appreciate that you are thinking about it!

P.S. The mix I'm using for the concrete is called '42.5N' here (which is 42.5N/mm^2), according to google that has a 28 day pressure rating of 5-6Kpsi. It's slightly blue-ish grey when fully hardened and it's rock hard. It should be plenty strong enough to carry the weight of the ±metric ton chimney I plan on putting on top.

----------


## erowe1

> Lol thanks ! I'll +rep you for the effort of writing that advice. Even though the issue has already been taken care of, I can only appreciate that you are thinking about it!
> 
> P.S. The mix I'm using for the concrete is called '42.5N' here (which is 42.5N/mm^2), according to google that has a 28 day pressure rating of 5-6Kpsi. It's slightly blue-ish grey when fully hardened and it's rock hard. It should be plenty strong enough to carry the weight of the ±metric ton chimney I plan on putting on top.


The thing about that strength rating is that it's strictly the compressive strength, not the tensile strength. The reason rebar is important is because steel has a very high tensile strength, and concrete of all kinds has a low tensile strength. Where the tensile strength matters is any time the concrete might bend in any way at all. The concrete that carries the load of that chimney, even if it's designed as a nice arch to distribute the weight in compression downwards, will still undergo some deformation of its shape, and where that happens, there will be tensile forces applied to one side of it.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> The thing about that strength rating is that it's strictly the compressive strength, not the tensile strength. The reason rebar is important is because steel has a very high tensile strength, and concrete of all kinds has a low tensile strength. Where the tensile strength matters is any time the concrete might bend in any way at all. The concrete that carries the load of that chimney, even if it's designed as a nice arch to distribute the weight in compression downwards, will still undergo some deformation of its shape, and where that happens, there will be tensile forces applied to one side of it.


Yeah exactly. I've got two layers of rebar, hence the double rebar in the cornerstones. I'm still working on the inside so it's not practical to put it in there yet. I still have to get some rebar spacers though. 

I always like over-engineering things a bit. The ring foundation which supports most of the bricks is a ft thick and reinforced. It sits on a layer of densely packed clay. 

The chimney won't put a lot of pressure on the middle of the slab so most of the weight actually gets carried right down. I would hate myself if I had to break down a part to reinforce it so I try to do everything as best as I can the first time. Thats also a reason why I opted for the interior block walls instead of just a floating slab. It makes the whole thing that much stronger.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I've put cement stucco on the interior compartments. Looks a lot nicer than those building blocks. 


The efflorescence seems to be getting worse from time to time. I think it's mostly caused by water (from rain) that is trapped inside the cavities in those building blocks. I did notice that there were some puddles of water sitting in there. The water evaporating from the bricks, leaving the white marks. Anyways, I hope this is the case. It should stop when there's concrete on top. Otherwise I'll have to figure out some other solution. I'm not really worried about it though. 

I finally figured out I'll use EPS to pour the concrete on. I'll support it with the gazillion pavement stones I have sitting around. This is easy to remove after the concrete has set and it allows me to put a little chamfer (that I'll fill right before pouring with a bit of normal cement mix) in there that connects to the stucco. Probably useless but I like the idea. 


It's funny that when I look back at my initial plans, a lot of things have changed. I'm ok with that. A lot of things have kept me from working on this project but I think it's going to look pretty stunning when it's done.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Ready for pouring now... I'll make some pics later.

----------


## puppetmaster

My Romanian friend has one he built in his backyard here in Reno.....We all him Doc Brown from Back to the future.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> My Romanian friend has one he built in his backyard here in Reno.....We all him Doc Brown from Back to the future.


I still have to go a bit further into the future before it's finished I think... Spring rains aren't helping me out. I just inquired at a local brick supplier about the price of radial bricks, to make a round chimney. Round chimneys are the local architectural standard for nice buildings. 

250y old


New


Things like that, also gives me the opportunity to cast a few more things out of dark concrete. These things look pretty stunning in my opinion, luckily mine doesn't have to be that high.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> That way, you will never in your great great great grandchildren's great great great great grandchildren's lives have to worry about it doing things you do not want it to do... except to be impossible to remove without leaving your nuts on the ground.


Amen.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Picked up the concrete mixer this afternoon.* I plan on* pouring the slab tomorrow. I'm getting slightly irritated because everything takes too long. I don't like rushing things but when things seem to last forever it starts working on my nerves. I made sure I have some extra free time in the spring though, got to get this oven done before summer!

Weather forecast: 




> Morgen vallen er verspreid over het land maartse buien met hagel, natte sneeuw, onweer en windstoten tot 75 km/uur. Tussen de buien door schijnt de zon af en toe. Het wordt ongeveer 7 graden in het noorden tot 9 graden in het zuiden.  De west- tot noordwestenwind is vrij krachtig tot krachtig boven land en langs de kust en op het IJsselmeer krachtig tot hard.


(buienradar.nl)

Good thing it's in Dutch because it's not a nice forecast. Talk about hailstones, snow, lightning-storms and powerful wind-shear. It's going to be fun ! Wish me luck.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

This is starting to look like a monologue! Well anyways, I can see that it's not too exciting at the moment.

Put two layers of rebar down with a couple spacers in between. I could walk on it so I didn't feel the need to support it from below.

The concrete is poured though. The moulds did not collapse. Nothing bad happened. A little more concrete than I thought I would need went in but I guess that went into the pores of the interior blocks. Vibrated it.

Took us 3 1/2 hours to make the concrete. A friend of mine helped me lift tubs of onto the oven. It would have seriously sucked if I had to have done that alone. Anyways, it's pretty flat, level and smooth. The whole thing is starting to look like an oven now. 

Pics tomorrow, it's pitch black now, 1am. We finished pouring at 10pm. Luckily I have nice neighbors that do not complain about the noise.

PS: The weather was nice, I must have pleased the weather gods. Windy but no snow, rain or thunderstorms.

----------


## tod evans

> This is starting to look like a monologue!


Well I'll chime in just to break up the posts even though I have nothing intelligent to contribute........

----------


## Barrex

> This is starting to look like a monologue!


Well I'll chime in just to break up the posts even though I have nothing intelligent to contribute........

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Thanks guys! 

Got back an email from the brick producer, they only sell through 'reputable suppliers'. I thought businesses liked to make money but no.. We don't want to sell you $#@!. Then why have a form on your website that allows individuals (specifically not businesses) to tick a box that says "price inquiry". All they sent me was their catalog, which I had already downloaded from their website. Anyways.. I hope this doesn't turn into me having to ask my contractor friend to ask his supplier to order some of those bricks. I'm quite sure that would take exactly, 7 years or so. Anyways, then these suppliers have the audacity to say the building sector isn't making money/growing.. Well if you don't want to sell people stuff and stick to stupid rigid 'rules' which you imply on yourself then don't be amazed if you go bankrupt. So yeah, here I thought I could just buy some curved bricks -- I was wrong. $%&^%^$^#%@$#

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> Thanks guys! 
> 
> Got back an email from the brick producer, they only sell through 'reputable suppliers'. I thought businesses liked to make money but no.. We don't want to sell you $#@!. Then why have a form on your website that allows individuals (specifically not businesses) to tick a box that says "price inquiry". All they sent me was their catalog, which I had already downloaded from their website. Anyways.. I hope this doesn't turn into me having to ask my contractor friend to ask his supplier to order some of those bricks. I'm quite sure that would take exactly, 7 years or so. Anyways, then these suppliers have the audacity to say the building sector isn't making money/growing.. Well if you don't want to sell people stuff and stick to stupid rigid 'rules' which you imply on yourself then don't be amazed if you go bankrupt. So yeah, here I thought I could just buy some curved bricks -- I was wrong. $%&^%^$^#%@$#


Regulations, perhaps?

----------


## Barrex

> Thanks guys! 
> 
> Got back an email from the brick producer, they only sell through 'reputable suppliers'. I thought businesses liked to make money but no.. We don't want to sell you $#@!. Then why have a form on your website that allows individuals (specifically not businesses) to tick a box that says "price inquiry". All they sent me was their catalog, which I had already downloaded from their website. Anyways.. I hope this doesn't turn into me having to ask my contractor friend to ask his supplier to order some of those bricks. I'm quite sure that would take exactly, 7 years or so. Anyways, then these suppliers have the audacity to say the building sector isn't making money/growing.. Well if you don't want to sell people stuff and stick to stupid rigid 'rules' which you imply on yourself then don't be amazed if you go bankrupt. So yeah, here I thought I could just buy some curved bricks -- I was wrong. $%&^%^$^#%@$#





> Regulations, perhaps?


Yea probably. Business need different permits/licenses to produce, sell to resellers and to sell directly to customers. Each of these adds another layer of paperwork, taxes and regulations. In some cases you need to establish completely new legal person to be able to sell your product directly to your customer and sometimes it is nearly impossible to make profit if you sell your product directly.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Thanks guys! 
> 
> Got back an email from the brick producer, they only sell through 'reputable suppliers'. I thought businesses liked to make money but no.. We don't want to sell you $#@!. Then why have a form on your website that allows individuals (specifically not businesses) to tick a box that says "price inquiry". All they sent me was their catalog, which I had already downloaded from their website. Anyways.. I hope this doesn't turn into me having to ask my contractor friend to ask his supplier to order some of those bricks. I'm quite sure that would take exactly, 7 years or so. Anyways, then these suppliers have the audacity to say the building sector isn't making money/growing.. Well if you don't want to sell people stuff and stick to stupid rigid 'rules' which you imply on yourself then don't be amazed if you go bankrupt. So yeah, here I thought I could just buy some curved bricks -- I was wrong. $%&^%^$^#%@$#


Awww man, that sucks, Luc.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yea probably. Business need different permits/licenses to produce, sell to resellers and to sell directly to customers. Each of these adds another layer of paperwork, taxes and regulations. In some cases you need to establish completely new legal person to be able to sell your product directly to your customer and sometimes it is nearly impossible to make profit if you sell your product directly.


I don't think they need any licensing but it probably has something to do with administration. Different tax rules etc. do apply. I'll still get them though, I want them.

----------


## tod evans

> I don't think they need any licensing but it probably has something to do with administration. Different tax rules etc. do apply. I'll still get them though, I want them.


I don't sell radius millwork to the general public.

All curved work I do is strictly wholesale, it's slightly less profit up front but it saves me dealing with contractors and trim carpenters.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I don't sell radius millwork to the general public.
> 
> All curved work I do is strictly wholesale, it's slightly less profit up front but it saves me dealing with contractors and trim carpenters.


I can understand that dealing with individuals sucks compared to wholesale and I probably wouldn't do sales to individuals myself if I were running such a business. However, I do find it odd that when I clicked contact details, it made me choose if I was an individual, contractor, architect or planner. I picked individual and it gave me a form where I could select the products I was interested in as well as the option to tick a box that said "price inquiry". So I was under the assumption that they DO sell to individuals. Anyways, I'll figure out who they do sell to and order some there. 


The concrete is starting to sound harder when I tap on it, I'll wait a few days before I remove the supports. In total about 550L of concrete went in, 145gal/19.5cft or about 1.6 tonnes. There's now about 8 tons of concrete in this project.. Sitting on very dense sea-clay, a layer formed 10k years ago. Starting to actually look like something now!



Comments are welcome. 

PS. my buddy made some pics from the pouring itself but I don't have those yet.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I can understand that dealing with individuals sucks compared to wholesale and I probably wouldn't do sales to individuals myself if I were running such a business. However, I do find it odd that when I clicked contact details, it made me choose if I was an individual, contractor, architect or planner. I picked individual and it gave me a form where I could select the products I was interested in as well as the option to tick a box that said "price inquiry". So I was under the assumption that they DO sell to individuals. Anyways, I'll figure out who they do sell to and order some there. 
> 
> 
> The concrete is starting to sound harder when I tap on it, I'll wait a few days before I remove the supports. In total about 550L of concrete went in, 145gal/19.5cft or about 1.6 tonnes. There's now about 8 tons of concrete in this project.. Sitting on very dense sea-clay, a layer formed 10k years ago. Starting to actually look like something now!
> 
> 
> 
> Comments are welcome. 
> 
> PS. my buddy made some pics from the pouring itself but I don't have those yet.


The photo is broken (can't see it) - is this the same one you showed in chat?

----------


## HVACTech

> Well I'll chime in just to break up the posts even though I have nothing intelligent to contribute........


ditto, while I do and have repaired Pizza ovens... I don't think this one will ever need service...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> The photo is broken (can't see it) - is this the same one you showed in chat?


Weird, it works for me, anyone else having this problem ? And yes it's the same pic.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> ditto, while I do and have repaired Pizza ovens... I don't think this one will ever need service...


I hope so because crawling inside certainly takes a special person!

----------


## tod evans

> Weird, it works for me, anyone else having this problem ? And yes it's the same pic.


I can't see it?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

That better?

----------


## Suzanimal

> That better?


yep. I can see it now.

----------


## tod evans

> That better?


 Yup, thanks!


Ya' might need hurricane straps to hold it down...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yup, thanks!
> 
> 
> Ya' might need hurricane straps to hold it down...


I guess I'm going to thank you for at least the next decade for pointing out to me that arches get keyed. These details really make the oven. I'd have pm'ed you this but your inbox is full so I'll thank you publicly for it.. Many thanks. Out of rep again.........

----------


## HVACTech

> I guess I'm going to thank you for at least the next decade for pointing out to me that arches get keyed. These details really make the oven. I'd have pm'ed you this but your inbox is full so I'll thank you publicly for it.. Many thanks. Out of rep again.........


covered.

----------


## tod evans

> I guess I'm going to thank you for at least the next decade for pointing out to me that arches get keyed. These details really make the oven. I'd have pm'ed you this but your inbox is full so I'll thank you publicly for it.. Many thanks. Out of rep again.........


You're very welcome!

It looks fantastic..

Off to clean out my inbox..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Today the pavement around the oven is being redone. I'm not doing this myself, I've tried doing pavement a couple times but it's not my thing. Not a real precise science and it has to slope a bit towards the water at the lower part of the yard. Ah well, we've got a guy who's been doing this all his life and he loves to do it... It's going to look nice, pics later!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Ok well... Pavement done. Firebricks and insulation materials have arrived. I really wanted to have the rest of my plans finalized before I start working so I won't get any nasty surprises along the way. Hence I made a few drawings, which are to size but some details are lacking still. The hot face of the chimney is lines, so is the roof. But it's good to have these things figured out. 

So I started the drawing at the floor level, I still have to draw the floor and underfloor insulation but that's details I don't really care about at this point. I mostly wanted to know the height of the dome and how high my chimney support would be if it were to go over that. 

The blueish grey is reinforced concrete. Also notice the two small columns next to the oven entrance, these are to buttress the chimney arch, which is a much flatter arch. The light blue is cal-sil insulation board. 


I want to support the chimney by casting a concrete arch into place. With plenty reinforcement. Most people building these ovens simply support their chimney on the dome, usually on top of some vermicrete insulation. I don't want to put the force of my chimney onto the dome though. I'm making a bigger chimney than most and want better insulation values. As it stands here there's 4inches of clearence between the dome and the supporting arch. 


Thought I might share this. Replies are welcome!

----------


## phill4paul

> That better?


  Looks outstanding! Once you get it finished pizza is gonna just taste better regardless of how it is made.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Time flies when you are busy. Luckily I have found some time to work on the oven. I have made two moulds for the chimney buttress and the more important parts of the chimney support are laying behind that. Took some copy routing to get that done but it worked out fine. I still have to decide on the width of the arc. It shouldn't be much wider than a brick but I think I'll just make it a little wider in case it starts chipping on the edges.

----------


## tod evans

Picture no workie?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Picture no workie?




Weird, it works for me. Does it work like this ? Thumbnail instead of direct image link (click it).

(maybe these two didn't work either ? from post 307)

----------


## William Tell

testing for luctor.

----------


## tod evans

> Weird, it works for me. Does it work like this ? Thumbnail instead of direct image link (click it).
> 
> (maybe these two didn't work either ? from post 307)


I can now see 3 pics!

----------


## tod evans

Friggin' double posts......

----------


## William Tell

> I can now see 3 pics!





> I can now see 3 pics!


Does seeing them twice make 6?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Does seeing them twice make 6?


Well he has two eyes... So I guess yeah, he saw them 6 times. In fact, it changes your question entirely. It's 6 or 12 times. And just imagine if you are drunk, then it's 12 or 24 times. Makes me dizzy already.

----------


## William Tell

> Well he has two eyes... So I guess yeah, he saw them 6 times. In fact, it changes your question entirely. It's 6 or 12 times. And just imagine if you are drunk, then it's 12 or 24 times. Makes me dizzy already.


How do you know how many eyes tod has?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> How do you know how many eyes tod has?


That's an assumption..

----------


## Suzanimal

> How do you know how many eyes tod has?


He's got at least four.

----------


## Suzanimal

> How do you know how many eyes tod has?


He's got at least four, six if he wears glasses.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> He's got at least four, six if he wears glasses.


Did you know I'm actually worried that by the time the oven is finished I don't like pizza anymore because I've eaten so many ?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> He's got at least four, six if he wears glasses.


Did you know I'm actually worried that by the time the oven is finished I don't like pizza anymore because I've eaten so many ?

----------


## tod evans

> Did you know I'm actually worried that by the time the oven is finished I don't like pizza anymore because I've eaten so many ?





> Did you know I'm actually worried that by the time the oven is finished I don't like pizza anymore because I've eaten so many ?


Ha!

Now you're double posting too.....

NSA must have a glitch........

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Ha!
> 
> Now you're double posting too.....
> 
> NSA must have a glitch........


The forum tubes seem to be clogged up a bit. You know... TUBES.

Lol btw got any comments on my drawings ?

----------


## tod evans

Oh good grief.......

Nuthin' I have to say is worth posting twice...

----------


## tod evans

> The forum tubes seem to be clogged up a bit. You know... TUBES.
> 
> Lol btw *got any comments on my drawings* ?


Corbels must support something so consider some type of cornice or frieze and cornice... 

I'd also like to see your chimney design included in the drawings, please.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Corbels must support something so consider some type of cornice or frieze and cornice... 
> 
> I'd also like to see your chimney design included in the drawings, please.


Yeah they will support a flat piece of colored concrete or stone. I don't want to make it too detailed but a couple nice details with small reveals and nice edges makes it a lot nicer to look at. I'm very happy with the masonry on the underside, it creates some depth. 

The chimney is going to be interesting, since it's going to pass through a roof, so when you stand next to the oven you can't really see it. You can see it from the sitting area though.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Here are the moulds. Now I need to bend some rebar and attach that to the slab with chemical anchors. Close the arch mould up and strengthen it a bit. Good to have this out of the way because I think it's hard to cast these things after I build the oven, at least without possibly damaging it and making it much more difficult. Overall there should be more than 4" clearance between the oven and the concrete arch. Filled up with insulation.

----------


## tod evans

> Here are the moulds. Now I need to bend some rebar and attach that to the slab with chemical anchors. Close the arch mould up and strengthen it a bit. Good to have this out of the way because I think it's hard to cast these things after I build the oven, at least without possibly damaging it and making it much more difficult. Overall there should be more than 4" clearance between the oven and the concrete arch. Filled up with insulation.


Should you run another buttress leg to the rear? 

It'd make sense to me.....And it would be stronger than hell if you poured it monolithic....

[edit]

Using your arch form add 1/2 an arch tied into the full one in the picture, effectively making it a three legged structure..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Should you run another buttress leg to the rear? 
> 
> It'd make sense to me.....And it would be stronger than hell if you poured it monolithic....


You mean from the middle/top of the arch to the rear of the oven ?

Basically the oven has 3 layers of heat and all are separated from each other by about 1/2" which I fill with ceramic rope and heat resistant caulking. The oven itself which is about half a ball (not entirely) is the hottest part. Then there's the chimney section which is about 1ft deep, this is between the two buttresses. Then in front of that (layer 3) there's the regular masonry that I've been working with so far. 

The two small buttresses in front are because the oven entrance/chimney section is a flatter arch. Unlike the opening in the oven itself which is an arch like the arches on the lower part of the oven. I'll put calsil pressure resistant insulation between the concrete and the chimney bricks. 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The big arch doesn't touch anything on the oven, it's specifically so that I do not have to put the weight of the chimney (asymmetrically) onto the oven/oven opening and so I can keep my expansion gap between the different temperature zones.

----------


## tod evans

> You mean from the middle/top of the arch to the rear of the oven ?
> 
> Basically the oven has 3 layers of heat and all are separated from each other by about 1/2" which I fill with ceramic rope and heat resistant caulking. The oven itself which is about half a ball (not entirely) is the hottest part. Then there's the chimney section which is about 1ft deep, this is between the two buttresses. Then in front of that (layer 3) there's the regular masonry that I've been working with so far. 
> 
> The two small buttresses in front are because the oven entrance/chimney section is a flatter arch. Unlike the opening in the oven itself which is an arch like the arches on the lower part of the oven. I'll put calsil pressure resistant insulation between the concrete and the chimney bricks. 
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean. The big arch doesn't touch anything on the oven, it's specifically so that I do not have to put the weight of the chimney (asymmetrically) onto the oven/oven opening and so I can keep my expansion gap between the different temperature zones.


Yes, I'd form 1/2 an arch to the rear, if your existing form is running from 6 to 3 and the chimney is at 6 the foot of the 1/2 form would fall at 12,the top right at the apex of the dome, where the most heat and roof load should fall...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Like this ?



(notice how there is less space at the rear of the oven for the arch to support. I copied the same arch profile and extended the horizontal section. Of course this footing is maybe a little oversized but that's how I like things. Also notice how it passes close over the oven.)

----------


## tod evans

> Like this ?
> 
> 
> 
> (notice how there is less space at the rear of the oven for the arch to support. I copied the same arch profile and extended the horizontal section. Of course this footing is maybe a little oversized but that's how I like things. Also notice how it passes close over the oven.)


Yes just like that...

If your oven is lined with standard firebrick and refractory mortar just 1" (25.4mm) is sufficient clearance....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Yes just like that...
> 
> If your oven is lined with standard firebrick and refractory mortar just 1" (25.4mm) is sufficient clearance....


Well yeah I get that but I still want more insulation.. I want to avoid anything that could act like a heat sink. Even though wood isn't too expensive I still want to make it as economical as I can and I plan on using it a lot, maybe not daily but at least a few days a week. So I was advised by an engineer who has built multiple ovens before to 1.insulate 2. insulate 3. insulate. So that's what I'm going to do. I still want to keep 4" clearance at a minimum... Looking at the drawing though, it could be possible to make that arch a bit higher and dip down on the other side of the oven to meet with the 9-3 arch. I was planning on doing the roof with trusses but I can see how a concrete arch could carry that load nicely as well.

----------


## tod evans

> Well yeah I get that but I still want more insulation.. I want to avoid anything that could act like a heat sink. Even though wood isn't too expensive I still want to make it as economical as I can and I plan on using it a lot, maybe not daily but at least a few days a week. So I was advised by an engineer who has built multiple ovens before to 1.insulate 2. insulate 3. insulate. So that's what I'm going to do. I still want to keep 4" clearance at a minimum... Looking at the drawing though, it could be possible to make that arch a bit higher and dip down on the other side of the oven to meet with the 9-3 arch. I was planning on doing the roof with trusses but I can see how a concrete arch could carry that load nicely as well.


Forming that pour to permit 4" of clearance shouldn't be an issue? And with a monolithic concrete support you can put anything you like on top including a Volkswagen..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Forming that pour to permit 4" of clearance shouldn't be an issue? And with a monolithic concrete support you can put anything you like on top including a Volkswagen..


I got this far with making those moulds, so I guess not no.. Not even that difficult to create these moulds. Bit of measuring and drawing, used the old bust up skill saw to rough cut, then took the router past it with guides screwed onto the wood 2" from the intended pass of the bit. Used that as a template to do the others with a bit that has a bearing. Then cut some strips on the miter saw, to fit in between.

I don't see why I couldn't make it more complicated. 

The 9-3 arch has a footing of 190x140mm, I'll have to think about it but I think the rear arch would have to get a bit smaller footing, maybe 140x140. I don't think that has to be an issue though. There's 12" of space from the exterior of the oven dome to the edge of the oven as it is right now.

----------


## tod evans

> I got this far with making those moulds, so I guess not no.. Not even that difficult to create these moulds. Bit of measuring and drawing, used the old bust up skill saw to rough cut, then took the router past it with guides screwed onto the wood 2" from the intended pass of the bit. Used that as a template to do the others with a bit that has a bearing. Then cut some strips on the miter saw, to fit in between.
> 
> I don't see why I couldn't make it more complicated. 
> 
> The 9-3 arch has a footing of 190x140mm, I'll have to think about it but I think the rear arch would have to get a bit smaller footing, maybe 140x140. I don't think that has to be an issue though. There's 12" of space from the exterior of the oven dome to the edge of the oven as it is right now.


Just drill and peg it to the slab with a couple pieces of rebar and it'll stay put......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I've been playing around with the drawing a bit and it's just about impossible to make an arch go to the back without either having to raise the roof or the arch getting too close to the oven. So I think I'll stick with the arch as it is right now. Should be plenty strong anyways. The roof isn't going to weigh tons  .

----------


## tod evans

> Like this ?


Using the roofline depicted in this picture it seems as if simply stepping up the horizontal section of the beam would afford 4" of clearance and remain below the roof framing?

But...........I'm kinda in the dark about the finished product........Are we looking at masonry walls with a stick framed roof and some type of flame resistant roofing?

Or are we looking at a complete masonry structure?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Using the roofline depicted in this picture it seems as if simply stepping up the horizontal section of the beam would afford 4" of clearance and remain below the roof framing?
> 
> But...........I'm kinda in the dark about the finished product........Are we looking at masonry walls with a stick framed roof and some type of flame resistant roofing?
> 
> Or are we looking at a complete masonry structure?


The rest of the structure on the rear is going to be made out of wood with fire resistant board covering the inside. Some more insulation goes into the wood structure. Moisture membrane stuff. Then ceramic tiles on the roof and painted planks on the outside.

----------


## tod evans

> The rest of the structure on the rear is going to be made out of wood with fire resistant board covering the inside. Some more insulation goes into the wood structure. Moisture membrane stuff. Then ceramic tiles on the roof and painted planks on the outside.


I understand now...

In my mind I'd envisioned a complete masonry structure with either slate or clay tiles on the deck...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Maybe this clears things up a bit. The small red section at the lower perimeter is bricks cut in half anchored to the wood frame. The wood frame will sit slightly above (the existing concrete slab) so condensation can get out of the brickwork and not start rotting my wood frame. I want to make these frames pre-fab and then fill the corners in with some wedges to make it really strong.

----------


## tod evans

This is more along the lines of what I'd envisioned;



Are you incorporating wood to match existing architecture?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> This is more along the lines of what I'd envisioned;
> 
> 
> 
> Are you incorporating wood to match existing architecture?


Yeah, my workshop has green planks as siding. We call that type 'swedish rabat' I'm not sure if thats the correct term in english but it's this profile and the color is pretty similar to what I used. 



The bricks are also the same bricks used on my workshop. Since this oven is quite a large structure I think it's nice if it fits into the area.

----------


## tod evans

You're really going to have to think about moisture, more from condensation than anything else....

Is there a way to achieve the look you're going for without using wood?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You're really going to have to think about moisture, more from condensation than anything else....
> 
> Is there a way to achieve the look you're going for without using wood?


Well with the pavement back in place the ground below will return to it's natural very dry state. So I'm not too worried about moisture being wicked up by the masonry. The two sources of moisture I will have to deal with are either from inside the oven or from condensation from day/night. Theres an air gap between the siding and the frame though. On the outside of the frame there will be a membrane that lets excess moisture exit from the frame that; blue stuff made by dupont. The siding is essentially floating in front of that. Double primed and 3 layers of paint on top of that. (I do the priming/painting)

----------


## tod evans

> Well with the pavement back in place the ground below will return to it's natural very dry state. So I'm not too worried about moisture being wicked up by the masonry. The two sources of moisture I will have to deal with are either from inside the oven or from condensation from day/night. Theres an air gap between the siding and the frame though. On the outside of the frame there will be a membrane that lets excess moisture exit from the frame that; blue stuff made by dupont. The siding is essentially floating in front of that. Double primed and 3 layers of paint on top of that. (I do the priming/painting)


I was thinking more about hot/cold condensation building up in the insulation....

Best practices for residential construction might not apply to outdoor ovens?

I don't know but it's something you'd be smart to think about...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I was thinking more about hot/cold condensation building up in the insulation....
> 
> Best practices for residential construction might not apply to outdoor ovens?
> 
> I don't know but it's something you'd be smart to think about...


I am not sure but I would say that as long as the interior is equal or higher in temperature as the exterior I should be fine.

----------


## tod evans

> I am not sure but I would say that as long as the interior is equal or higher in temperature as the exterior I should be fine.


Well one good thing about wood is that when (not if) it fails it's the easiest material to replace...

A rot resistant wood for framing and galvanized or stainless fasteners would be advisable..

What material do you plan to use for insulating the oven chamber? If it's hygroscopic you'll need to make provisions.....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Well one good thing about wood is that when (not if) it fails it's the easiest material to replace...
> 
> A rot resistant wood for framing and galvanized or stainless fasteners would be advisable..
> 
> What material do you plan to use for insulating the oven chamber? If it's hygroscopic you'll need to make provisions.....


First a layer of insulation blanket, with bio dissolvable fibers-> the safe stuff. 
Then some 1:6 cement/vermiculite directly around that (about 2" layer) then the rest of the space filled with 1:10 or 1:12 cement/vermiculite (or loose fill, not sure yet). 

Now I read (after I googled) that vermiculite may be slightly hygroscopic. People frequently use it to build ovens but I have never heard people that people had moisture issues with it.


Found this




> Low Hygroscopicity
> 
> Vermiculite has a low hygroscopicity (3%), i.e. at 100% relative air humidity, vermiculite humidity is 3%.


http://www.vermiculite.uz/index.php?...va_vermikulita

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Got some rebar, 10mm and 6mm. Going to put 4 10mm bars in the big arch. Bent to the exterior shape 35mm (1 1/2") in from the exterior of the column. Then I'm going to tie these together with rectangles from the 6mm rebar. Should be plenty to carry the load I want to carry. 

I got a tube of Sika Anchorfix to anchor it to the slab. I made a drilling plan, time to test out my new SDS-plus hammerdrill, the replacement of my 40 year old bosch drill that died on me mixing too much mortar .

(the dotted lines are the chalk lines from cornerstone to cornerstone. Luckily I was able to get these placed with virtual perfection. There's about 1/16th of an inch of disagreement with my original drawing. The chalk lines from all the blocks join exactly in the same spot though...)

----------


## Suzanimal

> Got some rebar, 10mm and 6mm. Going to put 4 10mm bars in the big arch. Bent to the exterior shape 35mm (1 1/2") in from the exterior of the column. Then I'm going to tie these together with rectangles from the 6mm rebar. Should be plenty to carry the load I want to carry. 
> 
> I got a tube of Sika Anchorfix to anchor it to the slab. I made a drilling plan, time to test out my new SDS-plus hammerdrill, the replacement of my 40 year old bosch drill that died on me mixing too much mortar .


Drill, baby, drill. Have fun playing with your new tool, Luc.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Drill, baby, drill. Have fun playing with your new tool, Luc.


It's awesome... It's one of these: 



It's awesome. Apart from regular drill bits it also takes sds+ bits. And the awesome part about that, I just found  bunch of those for cheap. Where I thought a half inch drillbit cost 10-15$ I just paid $4,50 for one. Great!

I thought rebar would cost 40$, chemical anchor 35$ and the drillbits 25$.. So I took 200$ ($=euro sign lol ). In the end I spent less than $50. It rarely happens that things turn out seriously cheaper than I expected.

BTW, open question, Anybody here have experience with soldering zinc gutters?

----------


## tod evans

> BTW, open question, Anybody here have experience with soldering zinc gutters?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 


Hmm. I have no experience with that. The problem I have is that there are no pre-formed 45 degree (135degree) gutter corners.. So I'll have to grind them off at an angle and butt-weld them. Or soldering... IDK. I'll probably end up contracting someone for that job. 

That J-B weld stuff needs overlap I guess?

Essentially I want this:


But then with 135/45 degree corners. And a 25degree roof pitch (iirc)

----------


## tod evans

> Hmm. I have no experience with that. The problem I have is that there are no pre-formed 45 degree (135degree) gutter corners.. So I'll have to grind them off at an angle and butt-weld them. Or soldering... IDK. I'll probably end up contracting someone for that job. 
> 
> That J-B weld stuff needs overlap I guess?
> 
> Essentially I want this:
> 
> 
> But then with 135/45 degree corners. And a 25degree roof pitch (iirc)


Use copper and never do it again......

----------


## presence

> The problem I have is that there are no pre-formed 45 degree (135degree) gutter corners


cut to angle you want; then cut back 20mm on each fold/crease with tin snips of both pieces; fold your tabs to meet one another creating 40mm of overlap;  join with silicone and aluminium rivets.

----------


## presence

> Use copper and never do it again......


just don't go on vacation and keep a hedge between you and the street

lol

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> just don't go on vacation and keep a hedge between you and the street
> 
> lol


It's in the back yard. 

Copper gutters could also work. I hardly need any length... Just 5 pieces of 3ft. Two end pieces, a connection for a vertical pipe and 4 corners.

I thought they just butt welded these things ?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's in the back yard. 
> 
> Copper gutters could also work. I hardly need any length... Just 5 pieces of 3ft. Two end pieces, a connection for a vertical pipe and 4 corners.
> 
> I thought they just butt welded these things ?


One thing sucks about Europe though.. Anything not standard, hard to find. Then again when you find some nice authentic stuff here it's paradise.


/woops double post

----------


## tod evans

> just don't go on vacation and keep a hedge between you and the street
> 
> lol


There were lots of lead gutters installed in these parts, all of them behind facia though...

Working lead is an art unto itself though.....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> There were lots of lead gutters installed in these parts, all of them behind facia though...
> 
> Working lead is an art unto itself though.....


That's an alternative. I'm pretty sure I have retained enough soldering skills from my childhood to stick some pieces together. I'll look to see if I can get a plumber in town to make me the 45/135 degree corners (from zinc or copper), if not, I'll probably end up soldering some lead together. I'm familiar with making lead sheets over window/door frames etc. So I bet I can make a gutter too. I guess the amount lead that goes into the runoff water is absolutely minimal ?

----------


## tod evans

> I guess the amount lead that goes into the runoff water is absolutely minimal ?


There's more lead released from tire weights and fishing sinkers......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> There's more lead released from tire weights and fishing sinkers......


The Romans didn't get lead poisoning from their water pipes either... They got it from making some drinks/food in lead lined cooking pots. And IIRC the acid from grapes would release a lot more lead into their drink. 

Anyways, I like to plan things a bit ahead, still a long time before there's a need for any gutters.. For the rest of the design it's nice to know what's possible though. Possible = more like available, anything is possible. I just don't want to use PVC.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So I bent my thick pieces of rebar into shape. Surprisingly strong stuff. Half inch seems to be the maximum I can bend with manual force and a little over a ft of lever on my bending irons. I now have a bunch of pre-bent rebar and I'm waiting for a bit better weather to assemble the mould. Some small pieces of plywood I was using simply flew away with the wind-shear. Luckily rebar is heavy and won't do that. 

I also found that I ran out of metal cutting disks for my angle grinder so I'll have to get a few of those before I can cut them to size as I don't own those rebar cutters. They are not cheap and every time I need one I'm like, nah I'll manage with the angle grinder. Except afterwards I hate myself...

----------


## tod evans

> So I bent my thick pieces of rebar into shape. Surprisingly strong stuff. Half inch seems to be the maximum I can bend with manual force and a little over a ft of lever on my bending irons. I now have a bunch of pre-bent rebar and I'm waiting for a bit better weather to assemble the mould. Some small pieces of plywood I was using simply flew away with the wind-shear. Luckily rebar is heavy and won't do that. 
> 
> I also found that I ran out of metal cutting disks for my angle grinder so I'll have to get a few of those before I can cut them to size as I don't own those rebar cutters. They are not cheap and every time I need one I'm like, nah I'll manage with the angle grinder. Except afterwards I hate myself...


Metal cutting sawzall blades or jigsaw blades work better for me, less noise and sparks.......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Metal cutting sawzall blades or jigsaw blades work better for me, less noise and sparks.......


Damn!!! Going to try that. I just bought a pack of those the other day to saw into the lewis- self supporting floor panel things that I decided NOT to use. 

Thanks for the tip, hope it works.. Although, cutting them with the big rebar cutters works brilliantly too but I'd have to walk a couple houses over to see if my neighbor is home, then ask him to borrow his again... I hate borrowing stuff, not the principle of it but the fact that everything takes 10 times longer to finish. 

I'll report  back later to say if it works or not. Jigsaw set to low speed and the lowest setting for forward travel? (dunno what that's called)

----------


## tod evans

> Damn!!! Going to try that. I just bought a pack of those the other day to saw into the lewis- self supporting floor panel things that I decided NOT to use. 
> 
> Thanks for the tip, hope it works.. Although, cutting them with the big rebar cutters works brilliantly too but I'd have to walk a couple houses over to see if my neighbor is home, then ask him to borrow his again... I hate borrowing stuff, not the principle of it but the fact that everything takes 10 times longer to finish. 
> 
> I'll report  back later to say if it works or not.* Jigsaw set to low speed and the lowest setting for forward travel?* (dunno what that's called)


_Oscillation_, turn it off if you can...

----------


## Suzanimal

> Metal cutting sawzall blades or jigsaw blades work better for me, less noise and *sparks*.......


Good to know! I tried trimming a metal threshold with my angle grinder and I burned my arm.

Been trying to rep tod evans all morning.

I'll just stick my usual rep comment here.
Good morning, tod evans 




> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

----------


## tod evans

> Good to know! I tried* trimming a metal threshold* with my angle grinder and I burned my arm.
> 
> Been trying to rep tod evans all morning.
> 
> I'll just stick my usual rep comment here.
> Good morning, tod evans


Carbide blade on a mitersaw, cut slowly and bring the blade up to speed before entering the work...


Mornin' Suz...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Carbide blade on a mitersaw, cut slowly and bring the blade up to speed before entering the work...
> 
> 
> Mornin' Suz...


Yeah I've seen people put custom rings on their miter saw so it can take angle grinder blades to cut metal. I just need to cut a few pieces though. First I have to go to the supermarket and buy some beer and dinner.

----------


## tod evans

> Yeah I've seen people put custom rings on their miter saw so it can take angle grinder blades to cut metal. I just need to cut a few pieces though. First I have to go to the supermarket and buy some beer and dinner.


Please *DO NOT* use a mitersaw to cut ferrous metal under any circumstances!

Aluminum is one thing, rebar another......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Please *DO NOT* use a mitersaw to cut ferrous metal under any circumstances!
> 
> Aluminum is one thing, rebar another......


Wasn't planning on it. I've seen people do some dangerous stuff over the years though. I know a guy who routinely puts a 6" disc on a 5" grinder and never uses a guard. Stuff like that, apparently normal in his field of work, boatbuilding. I don't even like to cut anything with angle grinders, the thought of kickback gives me chills already. I've had a few over the years, I make sure I don't get hurt though. Still stuff gives me the tingles, I can't avoid but I really don't like tools that are more powerful than me.

Btw, the most important reason why I won't use my miter saw to cut rebar.. Why would I mess up my nice miter saw. It's not going to be any newer if I start using it for thing it wasn't made for. Especially when I have angle grinders. I hate to cut rebar mesh with a grinder though, there always seems to be some tension on it and you get some jerking on the blade as soon as it's 'through'. Loose pieces of rebar just fall off, much better.

----------


## tod evans

> Wasn't planning on it. I've seen people do some dangerous stuff over the years though. I know a guy who routinely puts a 6" disc on a 5" grinder and never uses a guard. Stuff like that, apparently normal in his field of work, boatbuilding. I don't even like to cut anything with angle grinders, the thought of kickback gives me chills already. I've had a few over the years, I make sure I don't get hurt though. Still stuff gives me the tingles, I can't avoid but I really don't like tools that are more powerful than me.


I've got a 10" pneumatic handheld grinder that I keep the guard on....

Want to see scary grinder fare? 



10,000 rpm  I won't run 'em....

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## luctor-et-emergo

> I've got a 10" pneumatic handheld grinder that I keep the guard on....
> 
> Want to see scary grinder fare? 
> 
> 
> 
> 10,000 rpm  I won't run 'em....


Yeah I've seen them for sale before. Aren't they used for power carving ? 
To me it doesn't really matter what I'm doing but I try to use the most effective and safe way. 
Doesn't help nobody if I get hurt.

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## tod evans

> Yeah I've seen them for sale before. Aren't they used for power carving ? 
> To me it doesn't really matter what I'm doing but I try to use the most effective and safe way. 
> Doesn't help nobody if I get hurt.


Yes they're used in power carving, but in my opinion a flap wheel works better and won't grab like a chain.

I've run both...

Most of my tools are guardless in order to permit me to see the cutter but some things like the 10" grinder are powerful enough that I keep the guards in place...

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Yes they're used in power carving, but in my opinion a flap wheel works better and won't grab like a chain.
> 
> I've run both...
> 
> Most of my tools are guardless in order to permit me to see the cutter but some things like the 10" grinder are powerful enough that I keep the guards in place...


The automatic guard on my miter saw... I've thought of removing it. Most of the time it adds a lot of safety because I can safely get my piece out before the blade has stopped moving. But it moves with a wheel running over the piece I cut, I've had cuts under an angle where that wheel tried to push my piece into the blade sideways.. In that case the guard actually makes work A LOT more dangerous. I fixed that by clamping my piece down to the table. 

Safety... Not a black and white issue.

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## tod evans

> The automatic guard on my miter saw... I've thought of removing it. Most of the time it adds a lot of safety because I can safely get my piece out before the blade has stopped moving. But it moves with a wheel running over the piece I cut, I've had cuts under an angle where that wheel tried to push my piece into the blade sideways.. In that case the guard actually makes work A LOT more dangerous. I fixed that by clamping my piece down to the table. 
> 
> Safety... Not a black and white issue.


In over 40 years of cutting wood, 30+ professionally, I've never kept a guard over a circle saw blade.

I know the circumference of the blade and any linear path it may travel, there's no piece of plastic (or metal for that matter) that's an even trade for speed and accuracy in my opinion...

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## luctor-et-emergo

Just tried using the jig saw to cut through the rebar... 

Like butter. 

Low speed and it ate through at a fast pace. 10 seconds on a 1/2 inch piece or so. Blade doesn't seem impacted by a dozen or so cuts.

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## tod evans

> Just tried using the jig saw to cut through the rebar... 
> 
> Like butter. 
> 
> Low speed and it ate through at a fast pace. 10 seconds on a 1/2 inch piece or so. Blade doesn't seem impacted by a dozen or so cuts.


Much more enjoyable than a screaming, sparking grinder eh?

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Much more enjoyable than a screaming, sparking grinder eh?


Yeah and less sharp edges afterwards.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Pic I found from pouring the oven slab. Not a real good pic.


The rebar I bent to make the arc lintel. The top piece is split in the middle, sadly they didn't have long enough pieces of rebar to do it in once piece but I'll tie it in with plenty overlap.

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## luctor-et-emergo

On top are the calsil insulation sheets. Apparently these have about the same insulation value as rockwool but at high temperature and they can also carry a load, not mega loads (about 1/4th of masonry cement). They are pricy but they are better building material than vermicrete in oven floors. 

Below that are my firebricks. I like the color. There are some chipped edges but I can find enough faces that are near perfect.. I'll try to keep them as neat as possible, it will only make for a nicer dome. Which you will only ever see with a flashlight.. But I believe that when you do something, you should put some effort into it. 

On the ground one of my bags of vermiculite. Not sure yet if I will do a loose fill around the ceramic part of the oven or if I will mix in some cement.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> There were lots of lead gutters installed in these parts, all of them behind facia though...
> 
> Working lead is an art unto itself though.....


Old enough to remember when auto body work was done with lead sheet.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Old enough to remember when auto body work was done with lead sheet.


Well, I know there are a few places where there are still skilled people. 


It was f*cking hot here today. I'm sweating like a pig. 

Yesterday was 65F, today was 95F. Big major F-ing difference. 

I did do some work outside but I lost a gallon of fluids at least.

We don't have AC, imagine what it's like inside, pretty nice actually since these farm houses are giant heat sinks. Just upstairs it gets warmer but it's about time to open the windows and let some cooler air get in. Hope theres no bugs yet. 

I'll try to make some pics later when my lazy streak is over.. Right now I'm waiting for my chef buddy to get here, we're gonna grill some meat, I made guacamole some stuffed mushrooms, garlic butter, couple salads, got some good organic local cheeses and bbq potatoes.. Probably forgot a few things. Oh right, I got some fruit for dessert. Oh and a fridge full of summer-style craft beers.

Sweating like a pig so what am I going to do, right, spend time in a hot kitchen.



Oh right... All this hot weather made me think of buying a new hat and a pair of boots (I don't own any  )





Like I said, never owned a pair of boots, but I like the look. Goes well with jeans. I've been a hat wearer or a decade or longer though. I really like hats.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Well I managed to tie it together. It's not exactly symmetrical but good enough for me. Plenty of iron to reinforce it I think. Took a while but finally I decided to take supporters that are used in between rebar to connect the different bars. Works fine.

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## tod evans

That ain't gonna blow away!

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## luctor-et-emergo

> That ain't gonna blow away!


Don't think so either. For the big arch I drilled 8 holes 3 1/2" deep, one hole is half depth because I hit rebar. It isn't going to move anyways. But I rather like things stronger than they have to be instead of having to go back in later. Hopefully I can get the concrete in somewhere next week. Do some other jobs while that is curing and then I can start putting down the actual oven floor!

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## luctor-et-emergo

AAAAARGH. Just my kind of luck. Half way in glueing the rebar into the concrete and the nozzle on the chemical anchor cartridge just breaks off... Sucks. Tried to get all the stuff that was already in the holes out of it again. It's good that I have a sense of humor because the better I plan things the more seems to go wrong lol.

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## tod evans

> AAAAARGH. Just my kind of luck. Half way in glueing the rebar into the concrete and the nozzle on the chemical anchor cartridge just breaks off... Sucks. Tried to get all the stuff that was already in the holes out of it again. It's good that I have a sense of humor because the better I plan things the more seems to go wrong lol.


Drop in anchors and allthread will get you back on track, no chemicals required...

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Drop in anchors and allthread will get you back on track, no chemicals required...


Lol, no thanks! But thanks for the idea.

Just got another cartridge and squirted some in the holes, pressed the rebar in... 5 minutes later everything had hardened. Stuff works well. Took about 5 minutes total.

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## tod evans

> Lol, no thanks! But thanks for the idea.
> 
> Just got another cartridge and squirted some in the holes, pressed the rebar in... 5 minutes later everything had hardened. Stuff works well. Took about 5 minutes total.


I only thought of 'em 'cause I keep anchors on hand but not epoxy.....

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## luctor-et-emergo

> I only thought of 'em 'cause I keep anchors on hand but not epoxy.....


I have couple different epoxy items. Laminating resin, clear runny stuff, UV-curing resin. Some things to mix into it. I've used it to repair bad window frames. Took all the soft dry rot out, soaked some runny stuff into the good wood with a paint stripper gun to make it even less viscous. Then filled up the empty spot with a good piece of hardwood, glued into place with the laminating resin and some microballoons, tiny glass spheres. Sands well and after it's painted it's pretty damn weatherproof. Much more durable than any (polyester) fillers on the market. Still I must say, I rather do maintenance than repair damaged stuff. But if I have to.. The UV-cure stuff is for flyfishing-tying.. It's apparently similar stuff to what the dentist uses these days.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Going to pour the arch and some other stuff on Saturday. Next week I hope to get some more insulation to put under the oven floor (long drive). Then I really want to speed this up a bit. As soon as the moulds can be removed I want to get going with the actual oven. Apart from the insulation I still have to get the ingredients for my high temp homebrew mortar. Haven't even tried if it works yet, lol, other people have used it with success though.

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## tod evans

> Going to pour the arch and some other stuff on Saturday. Next week I hope to get some more insulation to put under the oven floor (long drive). Then I really want to speed this up a bit. As soon as the moulds can be removed I want to get going with the actual oven. Apart from the insulation I still have to get the ingredients for my high temp homebrew mortar. Haven't even tried if it works yet, lol, other people have used it with success though.


Old guys have told me to buy refractory cement, it only takes one accident and cost savings aren't worth it.

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## phill4paul

> Old guys have told me to buy *refractory cement*, it only takes one accident and cost savings aren't worth it.


  This. IMHO.

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## phill4paul

> Like I said, never owned a pair of boots, but I like the look. Goes well with jeans. I've been a hat wearer or a decade or longer though. I really like hats.


  Can't recommend Frye boots enough. 

http://www.thefryecompany.com/?gclid...RzZRoCIZLw_wcB

This is the pair I own. Have tried all the others. _Well_ worth the money.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Old guys have told me to buy refractory cement, it only takes one accident and cost savings aren't worth it.





> This. IMHO.


I'd love to just buy a few bags. The problem I have is that there's not a lot available. The stuff most people use is essentially a chimney cement, rated to 1800F. It's intended for large joints, more than 1/4". Then there's stuff that's more like caulking but this works like a glue and doesn't tolerate anything but the tightest joints. 

I haven't been able to find any refractory cement that would be applicable. I don't have a big problem with mixing my mortar. I'm used to hand mixing all mortar I use and I've developed a bit of a feeling for what different parts do for a mix. 

Cost saving.. Well from what I calculated it saves about 50%. The bags of pre-mix cost 40 euro. A bag of silica sand costs 1,50 and a bag of aluminum cement is 35. I've found fireclay.. Finally, quite expensive here though 30 euro for a bag but I'd only need one bag.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Can't recommend Frye boots enough. 
> 
> http://www.thefryecompany.com/?gclid...RzZRoCIZLw_wcB
> 
> This is the pair I own. Have tried all the others. _Well_ worth the money.


There's some nice stuff there. The modern luxury problem. Too many choices! 

These I find pretty nice.
http://www.thefryecompany.com/billy-.../d/87689C21235

I wear these a lot now.. But I need something more casual.

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## phill4paul

> I'd love to just buy a few bags. The problem I have is that there's not a lot available. The stuff most people use is essentially a chimney cement, rated to 1800F. It's intended for large joints, more than 1/4". Then there's stuff that's more like caulking but this works like a glue and doesn't tolerate anything but the tightest joints. 
> 
> I haven't been able to find any refractory cement that would be applicable. I don't have a big problem with mixing my mortar. I'm used to hand mixing all mortar I use and I've developed a bit of a feeling for what different parts do for a mix. 
> 
> Cost saving.. Well from what I calculated it saves about 50%. The bags of pre-mix cost 40 euro. A bag of silica sand costs 1,50 and a bag of aluminum cement is 35. I've found fireclay.. Finally, quite expensive here though 30 euro for a bag but I'd only need one bag.


  The beauty of this project is that it is yours from start to finish. If something doesn't work over the years then you know how to take it apart and re-do it.

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## tod evans

Can you get sodium silicate on your side of the pond?

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## luctor-et-emergo

> The beauty of this project is that it is yours from start to finish. If something doesn't work over the years then you know how to take it apart and re-do it.


Good grief, lets hope I don't have to !

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Can you get sodium silicate on your side of the pond?


Sure. Not that expensive either. (liquid/dissolved, pretty sure I could get anhydrous somewhere but liquid is what is sold everywhere) Continue ?

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## phill4paul

> There's some nice stuff there. The modern luxury problem. Too many choices!


  Honestly, of all I have tried these boots had a road worn feeling straight from the box and have only gotten more comfortable with time. There is something about a hand made, bench crafted, boot that just doesn't compare. $320? Not an arm and a leg. Dad's always said spend good money on shoes and a comfortable bed. If ya ain't in one your in the other.

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## tod evans

I'll put in a plug for Redwing 1155's since we're doing boots too.....

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## phill4paul

> Good grief, lets hope I don't have to !


  Absolutely not! Just sayin'.

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## tod evans

> Sure. Not that expensive either. (liquid/dissolved, pretty sure I could get anhydrous somewhere but liquid is what is sold everywhere) Continue ?


Just pay attention to your proportions and you'll be fine then.....

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Honestly, of all I have tried these boots had a road worn feeling straight from the box and have only gotten more comfortable with time. There is something about a hand made, bench crafted, boot that just doesn't compare. $320? Not an arm and a leg. Dad's always said spend good money on shoes and a comfortable bed. If ya ain't in one your in the other.


The black leather boots/shoes I posted above sadly were more than 300 as well I'm sorry to say. I just wanted to have them, they are still hand crafted in the Netherlands. The brand has a royal seal, not that I care for that but they've been making shoes for 8 or 9 generations. Good shoes. 

I like shoes that feel good right from the box, I must say, my black boots/shoes were a bit tight but wearing them for a while has softened them up and they are very comfortable now. 

I don't really care about spending 300$ on shoes, they last for years and I don't need 20 pairs of them. I just need to get what I like so I don't have to buy more. In the past I bought cheap shoes and worn them out in no time, quality shoes also last longer. It's my life philosophy to buy quality stuff so eventually I spend less. I must say, I'm not that old yet but I'm already reaping the benefits of that.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Just pay attention to your proportions and you'll be fine then.....


Well I know sodium silicate helps to waterproof mortars by filling capillaries. I also know it's used in high temp concrete to make it pourable...

What do I have to add it for to my regular high temp mortar, I haven't seen people do that, so please explain further.

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## tod evans

> Well I know sodium silicate helps to waterproof mortars by filling capillaries. I also know it's used in high temp concrete to make it pourable...
> 
> What do I have to add it for to my regular high temp mortar, I haven't seen people do that, so please explain further.


Please research this from a chemist!

I ain't one.........

If you can't find good data I'll tell ya' what little I know but mud-n-heat are an explosion waiting to happen......

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Please research this from a chemist!
> 
> I ain't one.........
> 
> If you can't find good data I'll tell ya' what little I know but mud-n-heat are an explosion waiting to happen......


Well I get that but why did you mention sodium silicate ?

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## tod evans

> Well I get that but why did you mention sodium silicate ?


It's generally used in refractory mud........

http://www.pqcorp.com/Portals/1/lit/Bulletin_24-1.pdf

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## tod evans

> Well I get that but why did you mention sodium silicate ?


It's generally used in refractory mud........

http://www.pqcorp.com/Portals/1/lit/Bulletin_24-1.pdf

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## phill4paul

> There's some nice stuff there. The modern luxury problem. Too many choices! 
> 
> These I find pretty nice.
> http://www.thefryecompany.com/billy-.../d/87689C21235


  Those a pretty nice dancin' boots.  J/K. The ole lady has four pairs from Frye's.  Frye has been around since 1863. Interesting company, I just love artisans.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> It's generally used in refractory mud........
> 
> http://www.pqcorp.com/Portals/1/lit/Bulletin_24-1.pdf


Right, well I haven't really seen people use it on oven building forums but I can have a look at it. I want to try a couple of mixes anyways. Dry them out and put them in a great big fire to see what works best.

The mix I thought of using;

1 part aluminum cement (contains 40% alumina, they also sell one with 50%)
1 part fireclay
3/4 parts silica sand
(1/2) part lime (lime is apparently good for self-healing cracks that form after heating mortar (too far) but apparently it 'sets off' aluminum cement so you only have a couple minutes open time.)

I want to try a couple different mixes and see what works. The best and most professional example I've seen of an oven was built with this recipe minus the lime, as this builder found that it set his mortar too quickly. This guy made a commercial size oven that is still being used daily for as far as I know.

Lots of people build their domes with portland cement instead of aluminum cement but I haven't considered that, I want something that definitely can take the heat, not mortar that will turn to powder when stuff gets nice and hot.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Those a pretty nice dancin' boots.  J/K. The ole lady has four pairs from Frye's.  Frye has been around since 1863. Interesting company, I just love artisans.


Well I wear Italian made suits from time to time if that gives any explanation to my preference. My other boots/shoes probably give some guidance in that regard as well.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Btw, I've worked with aluminum cement before. Cast some stuff with it and I've used it mixed 1:3 with sand to stick some bricks together to make a little shelter for my rabbits. Didn't have regular cement but I had a bag of this stuff laying around. Quite ok stuff to work with for masonry applications, important to keep it moist though. The clay in it should make it more workable. Sodium silicate is interesting but I haven't found any references for using it in pizza ovens so I'd have to do a test with that first. I bet it would make the mortar more plastic, which is a good thing... I guess it's food safe after it has bonded ?

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## luctor-et-emergo

woooooops

I made an error somewhere. Can't figure out when and how I did it though. (it's not the drawings! Must have done some magic with numbers in my head while measuring this out)



The holes that are marked by the arrows.. They are half an inch or so too far to the exterior of the mould. Instead of 30mm cover this would give me less than 20. Might not be a big deal since this part shouldn't endure a lot of pressure and the wrong rebar is on the side that in case of pressure would be compressed. Doesn't seem like a giant big deal, however, this will get warmer when the oven is fired so that could increase issues with cracks from expansion of rebar.

Anyways, I'm going to sleep on it and figure out what to do about it. One solution, since these things are glued into place is to grind them off and bend the whole thing in a bit. They'd float - connected to the other two rebars that are solidly placed. Or I could remove them all-together.

----------


## tod evans

Thicken the columns by 1/2 an inch, it won't hurt anything...

Or bend a dog-leg in the bars to move the upper (hottest) part deeper into the column..

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Thicken the columns by 1/2 an inch, it won't hurt anything...


Can't, 1) I'd have to make new moulds 2) It's 110mm from the edge of the exterior bricks so there's about 10mm gap between the concrete and face bricks. Half an inch more and I'd have to cut my bricks..

The rebar has to move..

----------


## tod evans

> The rebar has to move..


http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/20...ws/reviews.htm

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## luctor-et-emergo

> http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/20...ws/reviews.htm


Well bending won't help, it's the hole in the concrete that's in the wrong spot.  Luckily I can laugh about it. The thing probably does fine with 2 pieces of rebar. 

Just had another look at it. I'll probably just grind them off flat with the surface. It really sucks because everything else worked out so well... I'd have expected more problems with the arch but that all went pretty damn perfect.

The weird thing is, I made the same mistake on both sides. Even though my drawing was good. The only thing I can think of is that I copied the same 6cm center-center while these bars should have had a distance of 5cm.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Got a couple bags of 8-16mm gravel, arranged the vibrator. Filled the gaps with polyurethane foam. 

The worst part was getting everything level.. I used wedges to get everything level, then fixed the 3 moulds to each other. Afterwards I filled the gap with foam. I was initially thinking about locking it in place with some clamps but it's solid as a house already. 

I finally opted to just cut off the rebar that was in the wrong place. I bent them inward (they are still connected on top) as well as the stumps that remained. It's floating rebar now but the other 2 pieces still connect to the slab. It will be fine. 

Just when I had everything set up it started to rain... That's why I ran inside to write this.

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## tod evans

> Just when I had everything set up it started to rain... That's why I ran inside to write this.


Just prewetting your forms to help the mud stick to 'em....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Just prewetting your forms to help the mud stick to 'em....


Yeah.. I'm thinking of adding a slight amount more cement than normal. Normal is about 300kg/m3, but 350kg/m3 should give a bit denser mix.. I'm probably going to take the middle road on that.

----------


## tod evans

> Yeah.. I'm thinking of adding a slight amount more cement than normal. Normal is about 300kg/m3, but 350kg/m3 should give a bit denser mix.. I'm probably going to take the middle road on that.


I was being a smart alec.........

Concrete will adhere tenaciously to damp forms when cured, some type of form release is advised.....

Out here concrete is ordered by the bag-mix, 4 bags per yard, etc.... If memory serves Quikcrete is a 6 bag mix which is pretty stiff....(The metric equivalent is difficult for me)

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I was being a smart alec.........
> 
> Concrete will adhere tenaciously to damp forms when cured, some type of form release is advised.....
> 
> Out here concrete is ordered by the bag-mix, 4 bags per yard, etc.... If memory serves Quikcrete is a 6 bag mix which is pretty stiff....(The metric equivalent is difficult for me)


Metric is how I ride...

----------


## tod evans

> Metric is how I ride...


I understand.....

I can do mm to fractional inches in my head (My big equipment is SCMI and is graduated in mm)

I just don't do anything with cubic volume in metric so it's hard for me, but I do have Google...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I understand.....
> 
> I can do mm to fractional inches in my head (My big equipment is SCMI and is graduated in mm)
> 
> I just don't do anything with cubic volume in metric so it's hard for me, but I do have Google...


I have general conversions for that... Otherwise if it has to be accurate I use the computer. 

1m is about 3ft, therefore 1m3 is about 9/10cft.
1 gallon is approximately 4L so 1m3 (1000L) is about 250gal. 
1kg is about 2lbs so 300kg is about 600lbs. 

That's what I use, but I hardly ever use imperial apart from explaining thing to Americans lol . Or trying to figure out wtf they are talking about.


There's nothing wrong with imperial per se. Everything eventually is culturally and made up. The one thing that bugs me the most about imperial isn't even the fact that's not decimal (I mean there's no 10inch in a foot, probably wrong terminology here), that sucks but I can deal with it. The thing that bothers me most is the widespread use of fractions.

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## tod evans

> That's what I use, but I hardly ever use imperial apart from explaining thing to Americans lol . Or trying to figure out wtf they are talking about.


Still chuckling...

We're in the same boat but somehow we manage to get points across.....

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Still chuckling...
> 
> We're in the same boat but somehow we manage to get points across.....


I don't like being snobbish about metric or whatever. I really don't care. I just use what works best for me and I like to talk to people and share ideas... If I have to translate them for people to make the conversation easier, I'll happily do that. Exercising my brain is one of the few sports I really like. So I don't mind looking at things from different angles and perspectives.

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## tod evans

> I don't like being snobbish about metric or whatever. I really don't care. I just use what works best for me and I like to talk to people and share ideas... If I have to translate them for people to make the conversation easier, I'll happily do that. Exercising my brain is one of the few sports I really like. So I don't mind looking at things from different angles and perspectives.


I don't see either of us as being snobbish, just two blokes talking about building stuff.......

Measurements be damned if the end product looks and functions better than planned....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I don't see either of us as being snobbish, just two blokes talking about building stuff.......
> 
> Measurements be damned if the end product looks and functions better than planned....


+rep for you, if only I were able to.  I need to start repping some people. 

I like to see a world where people do things to the best of their ability, I like economic growth and I like commerce. However, when it comes to society currently, I hate how there is a throw-away mentality. Most people I know go to Ikea or similar stores for furniture. They buy something, wreck it, and buy something new. No more demand for furniture makers and everybody has the same stuff. Worst of all, after a lifetime, they have spent much more of their income on furniture but have nothing to show for it. 

The best example that I have right now is my skillets, they're simply steel skillets, I only ever wash them with hot water and I wipe them with some oil to keep them from rusting. These things last a lifetime, they are professional quality with big REAL hammered rivets, I get a lifetime warranty and they only cost 20-30 euro a piece. They are virtually non stick, there's no problem with metal cooking instruments, they are perfect if you want to deglaze.. They are easy to control in temperature. 

Really, the only disadvantage to these pans over teflon pans is that you can't put them in the dishwasher and they are heavy... 

What I want to say is, I like real things and I really like paying a lot more for handmade stuff, locally made preferably, like my shoes.

----------


## Barrex

15 pages. I thought it will be one page thread and finished within a week or two. You should produce Mexican soap operas.

He was amateur wood fired pizza ovens builder.

Then it was raining and he had to delay his adventure...


Also starring Tod Evans, the man who made our hero drill holes in wrong places:


What will happen next? Who started rumors that neighbors cat ended cemented in that oven?


Will unsafe working conditions finally lead to disaster?



Does he even like pizza? When will people get to taste it?

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## luctor-et-emergo

Well it's not exactly that I don't have other things to do. This is more of a spare time project.

I laughed my ass off though! And it nearly crashed safari.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Despite efforts of the worsening rain I managed to get it done. Sorry Barrex but I'll have to wait for a week or so before I take the mould off... Covered it. Now lets hope there's no giant air pockets or other funny stuff. Vibrated a couple times while filling, pretty short, a few seconds. Seemed to be enough although visibility in the vertical part was kind of non-existant.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I'm having a real good day. Decided my neighbors won't get any pizza. They whined over the fence about my radio, gtfo just because they're old doesn't mean they are entitled to complete silence all day-every day. It was at a normal volume, around lunchtime, pretty windy day. Whiny old folks. Never complained about a single thing they do even though plenty of things irritate me. This is what you get back for it. Tolerance  . 

Well anyways, my camera broke down so I had some issues with that. Opened the body up and cleaned it all out with alcohol and after some cursing and cleaning it out some more everything seems to work fine again.. Real nice stuff those DSLR's but if you just want to snap pics, they suck. 

Found some pics on my memcard though;

Rebar in the mould.


Right after pouring the chimney buttress. 


Day later. Looks good to me. Absolutely no need to make it smooth... 


The whole thing. I drilled 2.5" access holes in the top so I could put the vibrator down in the vertical part of the arch, when the arch was fully filled up to that point I screwed the circle I cut out back in. Then filled up the rest.


Going to wait about a week before I'm going to tear the moulds off. It seems they will come of easy, probably shouldn't say that. So this weekend they can come off. I've been keeping it wet for the first few days, as well as having covered it from the sun. When I knock on the moulds it sounds pretty dense.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well, I've been crunching some numbers and thinking a bit. Actually I'm close to a headache. I've dusted off my math and figured out how to calculate the different bevel angles in the dome..

I've also decided to use 2 layers of 2" calsil board. I'll use a little less than 2" vermicrete underneath that to create a flatter surface than my concrete (dips a little more than 1/8th in the middle but the calsil boards have to be on a flat surface or they will break). Then on top of that I'm going to start the oven dome. Under the floor I'm going to put an extra 20mm of refractory concrete to increase the thermal mass. The total thermal mass of the oven is 3" thick. The dome is 4". 

I made a mockup on some sheets of hardboard. Drew the oven floor and dome onto it. Since I don't have my floor ready to put any bricks down I'm going to cut some and put them on the template. I should be able to do a few courses like this before I have to use mortar to stick them into place to keep them from falling. 

Anyways, I should speed up the build a bit. 

Sunday, I'm going to remove the forms from the concrete...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well I sure hope this pic satisfies Barrex... 


First course made to size, all bricks are tapered on two sides. The space for the joints is between 1/16th and 1/8th or so, they become slightly wider towards the outside of the dome. Sadly the first course is the easiest.. The first few should be ok, then there will be a need for a lot more weird cuts to fill in the spaces. I still have to get the stuff for the mortar but I'm going to have to return the water-cooled saw pretty soon.. After which I might have to rent one, so I figured I might as well start building the dome indoors without mortar, for as far as is possible.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Post some big, beautiful pictures of the finished product!

And thanks for posting all this, Luctor.  Very good project, and interesting.  You're a true craftsman.

----------


## Ronin Truth

*Still?*

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Post some big, beautiful pictures of the finished product!
> 
> And thanks for posting all this, Luctor.  Very good project, and interesting.  You're a true craftsman.





> *Still?*

----------


## tod evans



----------


## Suzanimal

> 



Yeah!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Rome wasn't built in a day either........................

Sadly doing things for other people has a higher priority than doing things for myself. Life.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Rome wasn't built in a day either........................
> 
> Sadly doing things for other people has a higher priority than doing things for myself. Life.


I hope you're out there helping the ladies with their depression in your free time.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I hope you're out there helping the ladies with their depression in your free time.


I'm on 24/7 duty... Apart from that I went through a couple gallons of green paint. It's a popular color around here for houses. Fixed a leaky chimney, some reparations to old masonry. Made some furniture for a bathroom.. A bunch of things have kept me busy. Sucks for you guys but good for me. 

And there's more demand so it's really that I want to get some work done on the oven that has convinced me to put those other things aside.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I cut the cal-sil boards to size, the ones I have. I still have to get a couple more this week to get to the thickness of insulation I want. 

The stuff cuts like a dream, circular saw at the lowest speed, on the track and it goes through like butter. Hardly any dust with the vacuum hooked up. Didn't even feel the need to wear a mask. 

The stuff is pretty strong, when you lift it up it and tap it it sounds like ceramics. At first I was afraid the stuff would easily break or chip but after I had a few small scraps I took a hammer to them and it's surprisingly strong. At first it dents but to make it break you have to hit it pretty hard, I don't think that really happens on accident. Although I've heard theres several different brands of the stuff and there have been people who had totally different experiences. 

I'll snap a pic later but right now there's some cement/silica sand putty hardening that I used to level the slab just enough so I won't need more adhesive for the cal-sil boards. That stuff is pretty expensive. I tried gluing a small piece to a piece of concrete and it stuck immediately, dried out and it was as hard as rock. Good glue but I've found out that all the 'really good' materials you can use to build an oven are also, really expensive! So when the cement is hard I'll put those boards on and snap a pic.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Pretty nice stuff to work with although I must say it's hard to get the right info on these materials, on how to work with them. I like to know what I'm am doing.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Some more materials were delivered. The rest of the CalSil insulation. Two boxes of thermal blankets, called 'superwool', it's supposed to not have any asbestos fibers in it. 

I also got half a gallon of sodium silicate solution to hopefully create a moisture barrier in the slab so water can't be drawn up into the insulation. Which shouldn't really happen anyways but I want to see how this product works. 

I also listened to Tod Evans and got some high temp paste glue. Which is a mixture of Bauxite, Kaolin clay and sodium silicate (with a ceramic binding also if heated high enough). It's an airdrying refractory glue. It's only rated for sub 1/8th joints. So even with the tight joints I'm making I'd go slightly over this limit here and there. It requires a little testing but I hope I'll be ok. I've seen pics of people using the same product with 1/2 inch joints, wedge shaped joints, since they didn't taper their bricks. 

So at the moment, I'm tending towards bought mortar since the cost would be about equal and at least this stuff is mixed properly... But it has to be suitable.

----------


## Voluntarist

xxxxx

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Time and materials ... what has this thing cost so far?


Cost;

Foundation ±400$
Brickwork ±250$
Some mortar cement 30$
Slab ±100$
Arch etc. ±50$

Firebricks ±700$ (I bought 350, probably only need 250-300 of them)
Calsil insulation ±280$
Ceramic blanket ±180$
Glue for insulation ±40$
Sodium silicate ±20$

That's what I've spent so far... So that's roughly 2k. There's probably another 250$ in small odd bits I bought here and there. I bought some plywood and phenol coated board.. So I spent somewhere between 2 and 2.5k. To finish it's probably going to need another k. So 3-3.5k in materials. (I still have most of the receipts so I could calculate at the end. Just a couple 10$ receipts that I probably lost somewhere.) It's for myself so I don't have to know exactly what I spent. I do like to have a general view of it. IIRC I thought I could build it for about 2.5k on my first quick 5min calculation. I assumed it would go massively over budget so I don't think I'm doing too bad.


Then in hours. Well, I probably spent some 100 hours just designing the thing and figuring stuff out -10pm-2am usually!. Reading about materials and techniques. I don't have a clue how many hours have gone into it. Since I do this in my spare time it's often not a long period of time so I lose a lot in just getting started and cleaning up. Realistically speaking, if I were to build it for someone who paid me an hourly wage. I'd probably need about 6-8 weeks. Some of those days would be spent waiting on concrete to cure so in actual work hours, probably 6x40=240 hours or so ? I'm probably going to spend double that or maybe even more on this oven. It's the first one I've built and I didn't yet learn the lessons from this one. Not that there is a lot wrong with the design, there's nothing about it that's impossible. However, I've learned a couple things that would save a lot of time if I ever would build a duplicate. Although, if I were ever to build another one for someone, they probably get one without tapered bricks since that shaves off a massive amount of hours. With a typical wage for this kind of work the total cost would be around 10-12k or so. It could possibly be done in less time with better tools, still it will never be cheap to taper 250 bricks on 2-5 sides. I could also be off with my 240 hours. It's really hard to compare the odd moments I have to a full days work. In any case, it's not cheap. 

It's certainly possible to build a much simpler version within a 2k budget, easily.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I applied a coat of sodium silicate/water-glass. Pretty interesting stuff, about half of the mixture or so is water yet it's about as viscous as olive oil. Used a paint roller to coat the concrete surface. I thought it would suck it in massively but it actually doesn't take a lot to coat a large area. I used less then a quart to coat the oven slab and arches. Even though this would normally suck up a gallon of water easily. Well, now lets hope it actually does what it's supposed to do.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Thought I'd share a pic. Got some time to work on the oven now, unfortunately it's a bit rainy (understatement).

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Done.



Once in a while I can make some progress quickly.

----------


## tod evans

You made good progress!

Even fairly soft firebrick is a bitch to cut with diamonds on a curve.

Looks good!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You made good progress!
> 
> Even fairly soft firebrick is a bitch to cut with diamonds on a curve.
> 
> Looks good!


The saw goes through the bricks pretty easily. They are really hard and dense bricks but a little brittle. If I go slow with the saw there's usually a really neat edge. If I go too fast it wants to pull the table backwards/into the saw and break it. So I go slow. 

They don't break easily but some of the edges are prone to chipping, I guess this has something to do with the baking process. Not an issue though when it's all finished. 

I cut them through at the top of the curve and then used a number of extra cuts to get a radius (more or less shaving some off). It wasn't that hard to do really.

----------


## William Tell

> Done.
> 
> 
> 
> Once in a while I can make some progress quickly.


Cool! so how close to done the project are you percentage wise if you had a guess?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Cool! so how close to done the project are you percentage wise if you had a guess?


Little over 50% ? Although the oven itself is usable as soon as it's finished which is probably another 15-20% of the work. The rest of the enclosure is just to keep it insulated and for the looks.

----------


## Ronin Truth

Stack two stainless steel boxes.

Bottom one for wood fire.

Top one for pizza to cook.

When done, remove pizza.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Stack two stainless steel boxes.
> 
> Bottom one for wood fire.
> 
> Top one for pizza to cook.
> 
> When done, remove pizza.


And your point is ? I'm sorry, I didn't get it. 

Besides, you'd totally burn your pizza that way.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> And your point is ? I'm sorry, I didn't get it. 
> 
> Besides, you'd totally burn your pizza that way.


*"The best design is the simplest one that works." -- Albert Einstein*

----------


## Nirvikalpa

It's coming along!  Mmm, pizza.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> *"The best design is the simplest one that works." -- Albert Einstein*


From a purely mechanical standpoint I agree. From a standpoint of something that works and is also ecstatically pleasing, no.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> From a purely mechanical standpoint I agree. From a standpoint of something that works and is also ecstatically pleasing, no.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_follows_function

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_follows_function


I'm not into modernist architecture.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> I'm not into modernist architecture.


Perhaps that helps a lot to explain the oven construction timespan.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Perhaps that helps a lot to explain the oven construction timespan.


That has nothing to do with that. That's quite easy. 

I'm not getting paid to build this oven, I am getting paid to do other stuff. Building ovens isn't my only interest either. But I'm building it for myself so the only one with a right to complain about it not being finished is me.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> That has nothing to do with that. That's quite easy. 
> 
> I'm not getting paid to build this oven, I am getting paid to do other stuff. Building ovens isn't my only interest either. But I'm building it for myself so the only one with a right to complain about it not being finished is me.


Not arguing for the "right to complain". Just complaining.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Not arguing for the "right to complain". Just complaining.


You're welcome.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So I stuck some of them (most) to the insulation. Turned out to be the most difficult job yet. Clay isn't exactly tile glue and I wanted this to be perfectly smooth. Even though I had made a mockup that was exactly the right size, for some reason it's a little off around the edges, not more than 1/4th. So I'm going to make a couple new bricks for those spots and grind some off a couple others. Apart from that it's pretty much level and smooth, if I run my nail over the bricks it hardly catches. Ultimate smoothness will come with time and lots of use. 

I bought some clay (8$), regular potters clay with small grog. Put it in a bucket, added some water and I put in the mixer-drill. Turned it into a nice paste about the consistency of peanut butter. Since theres a slight difference in the thickness of bricks and the insulation isn't 100% level it took quite some time to figure out how to get the right amount of clay-paste on there. Then using one of those tile-glue spreader things to get ridges. The layer of clay is about 1/16"-1/8". After putting the bricks in place I used a rubber hammer to get them level. 

I only had to start over a couple times before I had figured out how to get it perfect. Reused the clay though.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Had some other jobs to attend. I do want to get some speed behind building the dome though. 

The entire floor is now stuck to the insulation. It's smooth and level. I tried to use bricks with very little chipped edges for the floor but it was impossible to get perfect. First course of the dome is waiting for refractory cementpaste/glue to be delivered.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So, I now have a roof over the oven so I can work on it while it rains (permanent veranda kinda thing). Great. I've started on the first course of the dome. If the glue sets properly it's great stuff. It's super sticky, you could probably stick a brick to the roof without having to support it until the glue has set. It's possible to wiggle around a brick for a minute or so. 

I have done a couple glue tests. The extremely thin 1/32th joint broke apart on itself after a week or so. The 1/8th I had to use a hammer to break apart. I think somewhere around 1/8th or slightly less is the best thickness. I'd guess the break in the really thin joint has to do with shrinkage as it dries. Although initially I couldn't pull it apart (after 24hrs). Anyways, it was a bucket of glue-paste that was past the use-before date. Luckily the 3 big buckets I have now were produced 2 weeks ago. It works really nice, easier to work with than mortars. Consistency like peanut butter. Sticks to EVERYTHING.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

(click to enlarge)

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So maybe it's starting to look a tiny bit like an oven...


First course is in place. I just have to fix the keystone. I've figured out the easiest way to do this is to build up a circle from both sides of the entrance and then making the keystone when everything else is in place. Making every piece fit, then sticking them together has too much possibility of error, as I experienced with the floor. 

Second course is sawed to size/tapers. Same thing here, first I'm going to stick them down and then make the keystone. There's a slight variation in the thickness of these bricks so I think I'll go over it with a grinder to smoothen some of the edges. Next course is going to be fun...


So here's the oven entrance, that black stuff is ceramic tape which goes all around the floor. I have got a 2inch wide piece of stainless U profile which is going in between the oven floor and chimney floor. Filled with insulation, as extra thermal break.

----------


## tod evans

Now it'll get interesting.....Off set each course and keep the bond lines staggered.....

Lookin' good!

I'm outta rep, sorry....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Now it'll get interesting.....Off set each course and keep the bond lines staggered.....
> 
> Lookin' good!
> 
> I'm outta rep, sorry....


Yeah exactly, if I don't give the next course of bricks some slight angles on the bottom/sides there will be some V shaped joints, which I obviously want to minimize. 

Off course I'm going to stagger the bricks, I'm going to alternate the side the keystone is on as well (as can be seen in the top pic). I've seen people put the keystones all above each other which in many cases gives a near vertical joint. 

As this thing goes up, the courses will get smaller, so I'll have to reduce the number of bricks. I'm thinking of either continuing until the bricks are small enough so a bigger brick spans over a entire brick, taking out about 1/3rd of the number of bricks. Either that or I'll put some small pieces in between to reduce the number without getting staggering joints. I'll have to see how it goes, things I thought would be extremely difficult turn out to be easy and vice versa.

----------


## tod evans

While your brick is still square cut the miter on the inside then cut it to length and finally taper the sides using a square cut to register on the saw...

If I knew how to draw on the 'puter it'd be easy to sketch....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> While your brick is still square cut the miter on the inside then cut it to length and finally taper the sides using a square cut to register on the saw...
> 
> If I knew how to draw on the 'puter it'd be easy to sketch....


I first cut the brick lengthwise with the sawblade tilted a couple degrees. Then I have a 'blank' to cut two bricks out of, that have the right angle so the dome goes inwards. Then I simply put a piece of wood at the right angle on the saw table, put the brick in place and roll the table forwards. A piece of plywood clamped down works fine. Since the blade can tilt I can do some compound cuts, risky but I think I can manage.

----------


## tod evans

Have you seen this?

http://lynchcreek.com/page-title/201...atus-for-2011/

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Have you seen this?
> 
> http://lynchcreek.com/page-title/201...atus-for-2011/


Now I have, that's a pretty nice example. I think it's slightly bigger than mine though. In regard to cutting bricks, it's arguably easier to make a bigger oven as you'll have to cut less.

----------


## William Tell

> I first cut the brick lengthwise with the sawblade tilted a couple degrees. Then I have a 'blank' to cut two bricks out of, that have the right angle so the dome goes inwards. Then I simply put a piece of wood at the right angle on the saw table, put the brick in place and roll the table forwards. A piece of plywood clamped down works fine. Since the blade can tilt I can do some compound cuts, risky but I think I can manage.


What kind of saw and blade did you use to cut the bricks?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> What kind of saw and blade did you use to cut the bricks?


I'll make a pic tomorrow. It's the cheapest wetsaw I could find . 350mm/14" blade, 3.5HP.

----------


## tod evans

This is a dry cut blade that'll last a long time in water.....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> This is a dry cut blade that'll last a long time in water.....


I have one of those on my large angle grinder. The wetsaw has a different blade though, no expansion gaps. It's the blade that came with the machine. It works well, as you can see. The only downside to the one you pictured above is a very loud high pitch whistling sound that comes from it. I sometimes saw through something small without ear protection but not with this machine..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

The wetsaw, I must say this blade gives less chipped edges than the other blade. The whistling noise it produces is absolutely abhorrent though. But it's LOADED with diamonds and a new one is 100$+ so I'm still stuck with this one for a while.


I dry stacked a couple layers. It pretty much fits the profile exactly. So I tapered them at the correct angles. Also the amount of weird gaps in between/underneath stones appears to be minimal up to at least the 6th course. Out of 15 or so. Looks better than I had expected. I'm impressed with myself, having never done this before.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

2 Courses done.. 14 to go ? 


I'm quite satisfied with the tight joints, however it does take a lot of time to get it neat.. Cutting the bricks to size actually takes much less time than sticking them into place. I'd have thought it would be the other way around.

Oh and that white thing there is a heating cable. Used in terrariums etc. I'm using it overnight to slightly heat the floor. Covered with wool blankets.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well, it's not easy. I can say that much. It takes time. I do like the result. 

Just sticking them on there is not a problem.. Getting them at exactly the right angle while also completely filling the joint is.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Not too much time to work on the oven at the moment. I did cut some bricks and stuck a couple on the dome. The worst part is having to wait for the bricks to dry after cutting them. 

Slowly but surely though it's starting to look like something. (the stains are water soluable)

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

It's spring! 

I took the cover off, put the saw back together and cut some bricks for the oven opening.

----------


## tod evans

> It's spring! 
> 
> I took the cover off, put the saw back together and cut some bricks for the oven opening.


It's about $#@!ing time!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's about $#@!ing time!


Yeah well, this job pays nothing and the boss is an $#@!.

----------


## tod evans

> Yeah well, this job pays nothing and the boss is an $#@!.


Believe me I understand......

Just wait until you've got a split-tail driving you.......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

^^visible ?

Right, so this is the situation. I cut all the beveled blanks for the opening arch. Tying that into the dome is a bitch however. So far my method of complete form-free, guide-free sticking of bricks is working just fine. I only have a straightedge to check for the right elevation angle and a level to check if the bricks are level... Then just to double-check I use a tape measure every now and then to check if brick-centerpoint is still 50cm. (it's at 25degrees right now so a total of 18 courses will be needed to make 90)

The white stuff, dunno, doesn't seem to interfere with anything. Falls off cleanly when brushed. Not sure what it is. Might be from sawing all those bricks (we have pretty hard water here) in combination with the pH of the refractory glue (which is high). 

I'm pretty satisfied with it so far.. I must say, making a dome isn't that complicated, even if you want to cut bricks to size. I've found that the best way to do it (with this kind of thin joints) is to saw all the bricks for a single course in 4 groups. Vary the width of the bricks slightly. This way it's pretty easy to manage any creeping up on the joint of the brick below or to stop tapered joints from occurring, especially the ones tapered the wrong way. 

Working on it is pretty cool though. Especially those arch bricks are awesome. Takes a load of concentration though. It's really easy to forget which side you have to cut from when bricks are tapered and cut in several different ways.. I started using paper to transfer the shapes I need, that works pretty well. 

And yeah, it's true, there's absolutely no reason to build an oven like this. I've only seen one other example of an oven built this way, it's posted somewhere earlier in this topic.. But I like a little challenge.

----------


## tod evans

Do you own a bevel gauge?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Do you own a bevel gauge?


Multiple. However, they are not easy to use on this project as a lot of stuff gets in the way one way or another because of the curvature. So I'd need a tiny one, which I don't have lol. 

I mark where I want my brick to end with a pencil. Then I put a piece of paper over the spot I want to cut the brick for, moving it next to the adjoining brick with enough space for the joint. Then I mark the pencil line on the paper and press the shape of the front into the paper. I cut out the template and trace it on my brick. Then I check, recheck and triplecheck to make sure my angles are correct. This because my saw only bevels one way, so I have to saw some angles backwards, if that makes sense. The saw isn't 100% straight so I have to take that into account as well (it was a cheap saw lol but it works fine).

Sounds complicated but it works.

Oh and I'd never use nice tools like the ones in your pic on a project like this, they're gonna get messed up.  I happen to know what those things cost.

----------


## tod evans

> Multiple. However, they are not easy to use on this project as a lot of stuff gets in the way one way or another because of the curvature. So I'd need a tiny one, which I don't have lol.


By using parallel blocks or even a trained eye angles can be transferred using one (or several), I find them indispensable when doing double curvature work...

I've known nuts over the years who will plot compound angles mathematically for curved railing...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> By using parallel blocks or even a trained eye angles can be transferred using one (or several), I find them indispensable when doing double curvature work...
> 
> I've known nuts over the years who will plot compound angles mathematically for curved railing...


I must say, I prefer the majority of bricks for which I simply calculate the angles and cut a whole bunch . Math can't go wrong if you're doing it right. I only have to make templates for the arch and some odd pieces to make the arch fit.

----------


## tod evans

> I must say, I prefer the majority of bricks for which I simply calculate the angles and cut a whole bunch . Math can't go wrong if you're doing it right. I only have to make templates for the arch and some odd pieces to make the arch fit.


That works painlessly plotting angles on a spherical dome but try plotting angles on differing points of an ellipse.....

----------


## Suzanimal

Are ya getting close?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> That works painlessly plotting angles on a spherical dome but try plotting angles on differing points of an ellipse.....


Well sure, that's a bit more complicated but it can be done with piece of paper and some math. However, these days, I prefer using a CAD program that I will feed the ellipse information and it will draw it for me. If I then want to subdivide it with angles or whatever, it's a piece of cake. I wouldn't say it's massively more difficult to do on a piece of paper than it is with a circle. The math is pretty much the same, the formula for an ellipse is a bit more complicated but that's all.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Are ya getting close?


Well I've got 6 courses down.. 12 more to go. 

Luckily they are getting smaller and they will have fewer bricks in them at some point. The difficult part is the opening arch. Once that's out of the way, the rest is a piece of cake. I've become pretty good at cutting bricks, in my humble opinion.

----------


## tod evans

> Well sure, that's a bit more complicated but it can be done with piece of paper and some math. However, these days,* I prefer using a CAD program that I will feed the ellipse information and it will draw it for me*. If I then want to subdivide it with angles or whatever, it's a piece of cake. I wouldn't say it's massively more difficult to do on a piece of paper than it is with a circle. The math is pretty much the same, the formula for an ellipse is a bit more complicated but that's all.


I'm glad to be able to access the interwebs with a 'puter.........

Drawings are still done by hand in my shop....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'm glad to be able to access the interwebs with a 'puter.........
> 
> Drawings are still done by hand in my shop....


A time will come when people can no longer draw by hand. I'm glad I still can .

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Kind of funny how there are 17 pages to this topic but only the last two are on the building of the actual oven part.. I'll stop talking about that before someone points out that's because of me.  I haven't even made any pizza's in the last couple of months... Maybe I should make some next week. I'm making a lot of burgers though.. 

Anyways, found this pic as well.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Now I know this is taking a long time but I've got a life as well. I'd have loved it if this thing was done already but I'm not someone who cuts corners. At least not easily. But yeah, the actual oven isn't going to take too much longer. The weather is clearing up a bit, temps are up, which means my bricks dry faster and that in turn means I can stick them onto the oven faster. As opposed to regular cement where a little bit of moisture is necessary to get a proper bond, the stuff I'm working with works best when the bricks are bone dry. 

Anyways, I'm working on the arch you can see in the post above. This is the most complicated part of the entire oven. I made a new mould for the arch, re-tapered the bricks I already cut because they were cut too steep. Things really get complicated when you work within such a small tolerance. It's quite a challenge. Once the arch is in, the rest of the dome is a piece of cake. About 55% of it is done now. The chimney section should be a walk in the park on a sunny day compared to that as everything is straight.. Conclusion; the oven will be finished before the summer.

Pics will follow later.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

pics.


http://s32.postimg.org/s4u9p4hcl/IMG_3422.jpg


http://s32.postimg.org/ybjlvbs2d/IMG_3425.jpg

----------


## tod evans



----------


## Suzanimal



----------


## tod evans

> 


Quitcherbellyachin!

You'd only eat one piece and fill up on wine anyway........

----------


## Suzanimal

> Quitcherbellyachin!
> 
> You'd only eat one piece and fill up on wine anyway........


 That's true, I would but I'm ready for a pizza party, damnit!

----------


## tod evans

> That's true, I would but I'm ready for a pizza party, damnit!


I'll bring some of the last batch of sausage I made, it kicks ass!

----------


## Suzanimal

> I'll bring some of the last batch of sausage I made, it kicks ass!

----------


## tod evans

Donnay will have to chaperone AF or there's no tellin' what he'll show up with.......

----------


## Suzanimal

> Donnay will have to chaperone AF or there's no tellin' what he'll show up with.......


I would be so disappointed if he didn't come like this...

----------


## tod evans

I'm far more worried about some of his friends from Wal-Mart.........

----------


## Danke

> 


 The Empire State building was built in just a little over one year. I guess the Dutch are slow.

----------


## Ronin Truth

Another one?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> That's true, I would but I'm ready for a pizza party, damnit!


Coming up. 




> I'll bring some of the last batch of sausage I made, it kicks ass!


Tell us your secrets. 




> I'm far more worried about some of his friends from Wal-Mart.........


They won't get past security. 




> The Empire State building was built in just a little over one year.


You didn't build that. 




> I guess the Dutch are slow.


Nope, just tall and handsome. 




> Another one?


Obviously.

----------


## tod evans

> Tell us your secrets.


Deer, pork, fennel seed fresh garlic and stuff..




> They won't get past security.


Better to just build a narrow gate......

I'd probably be refused entry by "security"....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Deer, pork, fennel seed fresh garlic and stuff..


So a bit like a bolognese sauce ?




> Better to just build a narrow gate......
> 
> I'd probably be refused entry by "security"....


Anybody wider than 3ft isn't coming in. 

But you surely would get in, I've got good security.

----------


## tod evans

> So a bit like a bolognese sauce ?


No I season and grind raw meat.......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> No I season and grind raw meat.......


I think I'm getting blind, I swear I read sauce.... 

But lol sausage makes a whole lot more sense as you were talking about that earlier this week.

----------


## tod evans

> I think I'm getting blind, I swear I read sauce.... 
> 
> But lol sausage makes a whole lot more sense as you were talking about that earlier this week.


Just took 3# out of the freezer, son's got a friend over and we're having extra sausage pizza in a conventional oven tonight...

----------


## phill4paul

> Just took 3# out of the freezer, son's got a friend over and we're having extra sausage pizza in a conventional oven tonight...


 3# of sausage on a pizza?  Take muh money!

----------


## tod evans

> 3# of sausage on a pizza?  Take muh money!


2 pizzas.............

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Summer kicked in today... We're having a long holiday weekend here. First we had the war memorial day on may 4th to remember those who have fallen four our freedoms here. Which includes you, your fathers and grandfathers who kicked Nazi ass. Then the day after is sort of our 4th of July, most people just like to party. I helped out a friend building something. Then today I cut a bunch of bricks, they are drying now.. Thanks nice weather. I don't know how much time I have over the weekend since It's likely I'll be imitating birds.

----------


## tod evans

*Italian chefs planning to break world record for longest margherita pizza*

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...a/?intcmp=hpff

They’re gonna need a bigger stove.

In fact, chefs in Naples will use five wood-burning stoves- on-wheels to bake a 1.2-mile pizza this month – the world’s longest margherita pie.

The current record-holder was a mile-long version of the Neapolitan classic, which was baked last year during Milan’s food-themed Expo, The Local reported.

“It’s absolutely a point of pride for our city, which is the home of pizza,” Alessandro Marinacci from Naples’ Pizza Village, which is organizing the attempt along with flour producer Caputo, told the site.

On May 15, hundreds of pizza makers from around the world will be rolling in dough for 11 hours to bake a 16-inch wide, 1.2-mile long pie along the city’s waterfront.

The ingredients will include 2 tons of flour, 2 tons of mozzarella, 3,300 pounds of tomato sauce, 6,800 ounces of oil and 66 pounds of fresh basil.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> *Italian chefs planning to break world record for longest margherita pizza*
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...a/?intcmp=hpff
> 
> They’re gonna need a bigger stove.
> 
> In fact, chefs in Naples will use five wood-burning stoves- on-wheels to bake a 1.2-mile pizza this month – the world’s longest margherita pie.
> 
> The current record-holder was a mile-long version of the Neapolitan classic, which was baked last year during Milan’s food-themed Expo, The Local reported.
> ...


Italians are awesome. They know how to have a dinner party...

----------


## tod evans

> Italians are awesome. They know how to have a dinner party...


Gotta wonder how many barrels of wine-n-beer it'll take to wash down 1.2 miles of pizza..........

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Gotta wonder how many barrels of wine-n-beer it'll take to wash down 1.2 miles of pizza..........


I don't think they worry about that as long as they have enough .

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So, the most difficult part is done. 







Looks neat enough imo. Sounds like solid ceramic when I tap it.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Thought I might start working on the chimney/oven entrance area. This is a pretty damn easy part, as everything is straight for a change. Yay. 

The chimney consists of two arches from left to right, 8cm wide, 16cm of empty space in between for the smoke to rise upwards. These are going to be shallower arches. Approximately the sketched line on the oven entrance. 

Some of that glass/fiber tape stuff in between the chimney and dome. I tapped the bricks solidly against the tape so it's tight but there's room for a bit of movement without cracks forming. I hope. 

On top of this will be some fancy cuts. It will be great. So much winning. I mean, so much pizza. 


http://s32.postimg.org/ezp8qlypg/IMG_3460.jpg

----------


## Danke

I wonder which will be finished first. Your pizza oven project, or the European Union.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I wonder which will be finished first. Your pizza oven project, or the European Union.


I sure hope it's the EU but I'm very much afraid that it will be my oven that's finished first.

----------


## Suzanimal

> So, the most difficult part is done. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks neat enough imo. Sounds like solid ceramic when I tap it.


Looks like an igloo. Just kidding, it looks awesome. Great job, luc!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Apparently there's some kind of holiday going on today because the stores normally opened on Sundays are closed. Therefore I was unfortunately not able to get a piece of plywood to make the mould from for these arches. (w=490mm h=100mm r=350mm)

Anyways, it's probably more clear now what the chimney is going to look like, if not, wait some more.

----------


## Danke

I once gave a gal a Dutch oven, she wasn't very appreciative.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I once gave a gal a Dutch oven, she wasn't very appreciative.


She called the EPA on your ass?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I was given a scrap piece of stainless steel, cut some notches in it. In theory it should help keep some more heat in the oven floor, who knows if it works. Maybe it's like that cloud-elevator thing or maybe not. We'll see, I think it looks cool anyways.

----------


## tod evans

Don't mud it in.

Metal expands.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Don't mud it in.
> 
> Metal expands.


Yeah I know. That black ropy stuff is in between to cope with expansion. As far as from side to side, not going to fix it, it can move a bit, I don't particularly care about that. Going to fill it with some insulation material. (It's a U shape, open bottom). I'll have to cut a bit of solid insulation to get it to the right height but I've got plenty of scraps of that.

----------


## dannno

There is this place called Blaze Pizza I just tried recently and it's amazing.. 

Just over $6 for an 11" personal pan woodfired pizza - all you can top for $8.25 - pretty hard to beat that price. High quality flour, various cheeses and lots of good ingredients including whole roasted garlic, smoked ham, applewood bacon, meatball crumbles, feta, black and kalamata olives, etc.. Can be post-topped with arugula, olive oil and a few other options as well. Classic red sauce, spicy red sauce, creamy garlic sauce..

Yum.

It's made to order, so you choose your dough (regular, high rise, gluten free), then press it out using a machine, then there is a topping bar and they will top it with whatever you want - then they slide it into the oven and it's ready in minutes. 

I thought it was a local spot, maybe a couple franchizes, but looks like they are in the hundreds.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> There is this place called Blaze Pizza I just tried recently and it's amazing.. 
> 
> Just over $6 for an 11" personal pan woodfired pizza - all you can top for $8.25 - pretty hard to beat that price. High quality flour, various cheeses and lots of good ingredients including whole roasted garlic, smoked ham, applewood bacon, meatball crumbles, feta, black and kalamata olives, etc.. Can be post-topped with arugula, olive oil and a few other options as well. Classic red sauce, spicy red sauce, creamy garlic sauce..
> 
> Yum.
> 
> It's made to order, so you choose your dough (regular, high rise, gluten free), then press it out using a machine, then there is a topping bar and they will top it with whatever you want - then they slide it into the oven and it's ready in minutes. 
> 
> I thought it was a local spot, maybe a couple franchizes, but looks like they are in the hundreds.


Sounds awful cheap but if you're saying it's good then who am I to doubt your opinion.

----------


## dannno

> Sounds awful cheap but if you're saying it's good then who am I to doubt your opinion.


Ya they figured out how to mass-produce it pretty well.. 

The one I happened to stop into was in a college town - there were 21 hotties standing in line for pizza, plus me and 3 other dudes (the ratio was so ridiculous, I had to actually count...)..so about 16 standing in line to order and 8 waiting on their pizza to cook. They were calling a person to pickup their pizza every 45-75 seconds or so. 

One guy's job was to take the dough, put it into a machine press and press it out into a circle with ridged edge, then flour a wooden cutting board and put the dough on that. Then someone takes your order, and your numbered order slip stays with the pizza to be topped.. There were 2 or 3 toppers, one on meats, one on veggies. Then they take the order slip off and put a metal number bracket thing on the pizza to tie to the slip when it comes out of the oven. One guy mans the oven and slides the pizzas around and takes them out when they are done. There were about 8-10 pies in the oven at all times.

The pizza comes out, then the manager finishes up, calls your name, slices it, tops it with the finals and boxes it if you get it to go. I was in and out in probably 12 minutes or so, after standing in line for at least 5 or 7 minutes. I figure they are doing about 50-70 pies/hour...maybe more..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Ya they figured out how to mass-produce it pretty well.. 
> 
> The one I happened to stop into was in a college town - there were 21 hotties standing in line for pizza, plus me and 3 other dudes (the ratio was so ridiculous, I had to actually count...)..so about 16 standing in line to order and 8 waiting on their pizza to cook. They were calling a person to pickup their pizza every 45-75 seconds or so. 
> 
> One guy's job was to take the dough, put it into a machine press and press it out into a circle with ridged edge, then flour a wooden cutting board and put the dough on that. Then someone takes your order, and your numbered order slip stays with the pizza to be topped.. There were 2 or 3 toppers, one on meats, one on veggies. Then they take the order slip off and put a metal number bracket thing on the pizza to tie to the slip when it comes out of the oven. One guy mans the oven and slides the pizzas around and takes them out when they are done. There were about 8-10 pies in the oven at all times.
> 
> The pizza comes out, then the manager finishes up, calls your name, slices it, tops it with the finals and boxes it if you get it to go. I was in and out in probably 12 minutes or so, after standing in line for at least 5 or 7 minutes. I figure they are doing about 50-70 pies/hour...maybe more..


On the other hand, that sounds pretty decent for a chain/franchise...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

First chimney arch.... This is pretty easy compared to the other arch. A couple pieces of the black glass/ceramic tape to separate the arches.. Waiting for stuff to dry. Before I can stick some more on.

----------


## Danke



----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 


Anticipate no longer because said arch is finished..

----------


## tod evans

You're just getting started, tying two dissimilar arches together is, er........................Interesting...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You're just getting started, tying two dissimilar arches together is, er........................Interesting...


They are not tied together... They are next to each other..

The 'dome' and 'chimney' are entirely separate structures. There's about 4mm space and some rope stuff is in between.

----------


## tod evans

> They are not tied together... They are next to each other..


I used poor verbiage...

Cutting the angles to bring dissimilar arches in close enough proximity to one another that a flame retardant membrane may be used to seal them will be interesting..

Better?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I used poor verbiage...
> 
> Cutting the angles to bring dissimilar arches in close enough proximity to one another that a flame retardant membrane may be used to seal them will be interesting..
> 
> Better?


That's what the rope stuff is for. Eventually no gasses can escape. I am still considering whether or not to caulk the inside of the joint. I can do that at a later date if I wish. I kept 1/2 inch space between the inside of the chimney area and the ceramic/glass rope/tape stuff. 

If you get what I am trying to say. I think I understand what you are trying to say.  

And yes, it's my design  So we will see if it works.

----------


## tod evans

> That's what the rope stuff is for. Eventually no gasses can escape. I am still considering whether or not to caulk the inside of the joint. I can do that at a later date if I wish. I kept 1/2 inch space between the inside of the chimney area and the ceramic/glass rope/tape stuff. 
> 
> If you get what I am trying to say. I think I understand what you are trying to say.


I understand.......

Take a side shot, or 17, so others who may find this thread and get inspired will understand....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I understand.......
> 
> Take a side shot, or 17, so others who may find this thread and get inspired will understand....


There you go . If only people would become interested in liberty because they were searching google for pizza ovens...  That would be nice.

----------


## tod evans

It's been my experience that people who do for themselves appreciate liberty, so could be that building a pizza oven will draw in a few..........

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's been my experience that people who do for themselves appreciate liberty, so could be that building a pizza oven will draw in a few..........


It would be truly awesome if my small expedition into creativity and craftsmanship propels other people to show an interest in their personal liberty. This, in a nutshell, is why I posted this in 'freedom living'. It seemed to be entirely the appropriate forum... I appreciate how this has become a fun topic without too much focus on the matter at hand.

----------


## tod evans

But, but.........

Whaddabout getting government to build community pizza ovens? 

Free pizza for everybody!

Just think of the jobs, concrete, mason, chef, firewood, farmer, rancher the list goes on.........

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> But, but.........
> 
> Whaddabout getting government to build community pizza ovens? 
> 
> Free pizza for everybody!
> 
> Just think of the jobs, concrete, mason, chef, firewood, farmer, rancher the list goes on.........


I didn't even ask for permission from the government to build this thing (didn't even bother to look if I should).  My neighbors probably won't mind some nice pizza's from time to time so that's all the permission I need. (And yes they have been suffering from hours and hours of water cooled masonry saw noise, which is horrible, yet they aren't bothered by that as much as when I have my radio turned on a bit too loud.) When it's finished I'll give em all pizza and everyone is happy. 


#completely random: have fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=TwdFUon-Y9g
who knows if this has anything to do with my neighbors not liking my radio.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I understand.......
> 
> Take a side shot, or 17, so others who may find this thread and get inspired will understand....


Also in this shot you can see the tape/rope stuff. One continuous layer on the top/bottom and some stuff in between to fill it up, just because I have more of the stuff. It's self-adhesive tape, about 5mm thick, but it can be compressed a little. I try not to force it down completely but I do push a little so it's tight in between.

----------


## Danke

I'm having pizza in my conventional oven tonight.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'm having pizza in my conventional oven tonight.


Did you defrost it yourself ?

----------


## Danke

> Did you defrost it yourself ?


It's not frozen.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's not frozen.


Well what is it then ?

----------


## Danke

> Well what is it then ?


Unfrozen pizza.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Unfrozen pizza.


What's on it, who made it, you know the drill.

Now that I'm thinking about it we are missing @heavenlyboy34 in here...

----------


## Danke

> What's on it, who made it, you know the drill.


Lots of meat on one, the other one is Hawaiian.  And I add to them.

http://www.papamurphys.com

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Lots of meat on one, the other one is Hawaiian.  And I add to them.
> 
> https://www.papamurphys.com


I don't understand pizza hawaii. It doesn't appeal to me. Lots of meat sounds good though. As long as it's still a pizza and not a meat pie or else you'd be in the wrong topic buddy.

----------


## Danke

> What's on it, who made it, you know the drill.
> 
> Now that I'm thinking about it we are missing @heavenlyboy34 in here...


"We?"  Speak for yourself.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> "We?"  Speak for yourself.


I am not allowed to have multiple personalities/identities ? What kind of a libertarian are you ?! If Bruce whatever can be a woman I can be multiple people if I want to, right ?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> What's on it, who made it, you know the drill.
> 
> Now that I'm thinking about it we are missing @heavenlyboy34 in here...


I got your signal. What do you ask of me, comrade?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> "We?"  Speak for yourself.


You always miss me. I know it.  ~hugs~

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I got your signal. What do you ask of me, comrade?


You always seem to have a positive influence on Danke... So I ask of you nothing...
I was hoping the natural way the universe works would be good enough. No major central planning went into that previous post. 

Just know that if I'm president I'll nominate you to be minister of hugs.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Took the form out, didn't collapse, yay. The refractory mortar isn't dry yet. I filled in some of the empty parts from the bottom and cleaned up a bit.

That's what it looks like from the inside. Don't think I'm going to make it to 17 pics though.

----------


## Wooden Indian

Hot damn that looks sharp!

----------


## Suzanimal

Italian chefs set new Guinness World Record with pizza over a mile long




> Italy may not have the world’s best pizza but it can now officially say it has the longest.
> 
> On Wednesday, 100 chefs gathered in Naples, Italy to create a pizza stretching over 6,082 feet—that’s 1.15 miles long. Guinness World Records has officially proclaimed it as the longest pizza ever made.
> 
> Related Image
> 
> werwer3455dsf353543.jpgExpand / Contract
> The pizza, which stretches over a mile long, can't even be viewed in its entirety. (Guinness World Records)
> It took the pizza masters 11 hours to create the pie from over 4,400 pounds of flour, 3,300 pounds of tomato sauce, 200 liters of olive oil and 4,400 pounds of cheese.
> ...

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> You always seem to have a positive influence on Danke... So I ask of you nothing...
> I was hoping the natural way the universe works would be good enough. No major central planning went into that previous post. 
> *
> Just know that if I'm president I'll nominate you to be minister of hugs*.


Cool gig!  What's the pay?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Cool gig!  What's the pay?


Unlimited pizza I think.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So I made the second arch today. For some reason the mortar stuff works ok with wet/moist stones when it's warmer. I don't know how that works but I'm not complaining. (I'd have figured that it would dry more slowly since there has been a lot of rain and were about to get some thunderstorms so the air is very moist and this is air-drying stuff. Water soluble until you fire it. Which is why I don't want ANY water to get on it, the stuff simply becomes as soft as it was before. Which is why I don't worry about getting anything on my tools, it simply washes off.)




This is the start of the smoke channel, the distance between the arches will remain the same all the way up, the width will slowly decrease, in a nice arc so the smoke will hopefully flow smoothly upwards. 



And yes, I have figured out that I'm going to have to lay inside of it completely to do the last bit on the inside of the dome... So  be it, I've measured my shoulder width and I should barely fit through if I squeeze myself a little. Once inside I've got room to work. 

If I don't fit for some reason, I'm going to have to find someone that does fit and is willing to crawl into the oven for me, it will probably be some kind of nephew or something... I hope I fit myself though.

----------


## Suzanimal

I want pizza. I may have to drive in town and pick up some Nancy's - best pizza in Atlanta. I don't get the Chicago style, I like the rustic crust.

http://www.nancyspizza.com/menu.html

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Somehow I'm going to get to 17 pics.... Almost looks like a pizza oven.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Unlimited pizza I think.


Make it unlimited meals from Carlos O'Brien's or Black Angus Steakhouse and it's a deal.  ~hugs~

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Make it unlimited meals from Carlos O'Brien's or Black Angus Steakhouse and it's a deal.  ~hugs~


Ok, well, you get me elected president, then I'll get you unlimited food from there. Deal.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

This is the part where a bunch of weird cuts go in to make the chimney and preferably make it nice and strong. 



It's much harder to make odd cuts like this since saws generally aren't made to do this kind of thing. So I tilted my brick, cut into it as far as I could and cleaned it up with a handheld grinder.



BTW, I have a little under 100 bricks left, I hope it's enough!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I'll keep spamming those pics.. 





At this height in the chimney some kind of stainless steel rod will be placed from which stuff can be suspended to be smoked or whatever. It will be a removable thing, how, not yet entirely sure. I was thinking of using Pythagoras to rotate it into place with a little notch or something it can fall into.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Ok well, that's done. Enough pics for now.

----------


## Danke

Time to wrap this up.  Or I'm gonna have to close this thread soon.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Time to wrap this up.  Or I'm gonna have to close this thread soon.


Please leave it open until we see a pizza.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Time to wrap this up.  Or I'm gonna have to close this thread soon.


This is MY safe-space. Take your complaints to yours.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Please leave it open until we see a pizza.


Just one !? What if it's not perfect ?! Then it will seem like all the effort was for nothing !?

----------


## Suzanimal

> Just one !? What if it's not perfect ?! Then it will seem like all the effort was for nothing !?


You have a good point. Let's leave it open until luc bakes the perfect pie.

----------


## Danke

> Let's leave it open until luc bakes the perfect pie.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...03#post6206903

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Hah, I my shaping disc ran out of diamonds.. I was wondering when that would happen. The only thing it does now is give lots of sparks, which is fun too but not very useful. 

Delays, delays... But you guys aren't paying me enough to do this fast.

----------


## Danke

> Hah, I my shaping disc ran out of diamonds.. I was wondering when that would happen. The only thing it does now is give lots of sparks, which is fun too but not very useful. 
> 
> Delays, delays... But you guys aren't paying me enough to do this fast.


I'll pay you to stop posting about your pizza oven project.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'll pay you to stop posting about your pizza oven project.


I am a pragmatic individual, how much is your starting bid ? I'd say, start bidding at around 100k, then I could buy a toy that would assure you I would never post here again.

----------


## Danke

> I am a pragmatic individual, how much is your starting bid ? I'd say, start bidding at around 100k, then I could buy a toy that would assure you I would never post here again.


Done, where do you want your 100k of Zimbabwe banknotes sent?

How about some Stroopwafels?  I got a s**t load of those I like to unload,  along with some tulips.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Done, where do you want your 100k of Zimbabwe banknotes sent?


Wrong currency. I can only spend Euro's here so it would obviously be 100k Euro. Doh.

----------


## Danke

> Wrong currency. I can only spend Euro's here so it would obviously be 100k Euro. Doh.


That's not even Real money, that's funny money.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> That's not even Real money, that's funny money.


Well, bad luck for you... Got a new disk. It was only 10$. Which worries me a bit when were talking quality... It seems however that there are plenty of diamonds in it so we will see.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Well, bad luck for you... Got a new disk. It was only 10$. Which worries me a bit when were talking quality... It seems however that there are plenty of diamonds in it so we will see.


It seems my worries where wholly misplaced. It is a great disc.

----------


## tod evans

> It seems my worries where wholly misplaced. It is a great disc.


Can't tell, you've failed to post pictures again....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Can't tell, you've failed to post pictures again....


Yeah I know. My camera is acting up.  The one in my phone broke. I don't feel like taking a laptop and trying to make pics with that.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Can't tell, you've failed to post pictures again....


Here you have some pics. 

50 degrees incline now.. 


The arch is now covered. Some slight funny business going on to the left but I hope to correct that dip this course. 


Some funny business around the arch as well which I corrected 'neatly' since I didn't want to take anything apart to do it again. It's enough work already.

----------


## Suzanimal

Your pics worked and your oven is beautiful. Nice job!!!




> Here you have some pics. 
> 
> 50 degrees incline now.. 
> 
> 
> The arch is now covered. Some slight funny business going on to the left but I hope to correct that dip this course. 
> 
> 
> Some funny business around the arch as well which I corrected 'neatly' since I didn't want to take anything apart to do it again. It's enough work already.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Your pics worked and your oven is beautiful. Nice job!!!


Thanks, now the 11th course is going to be interesting. Right now I have 36 bricks in a diameter but I really don't want to cut that many small ones. So I'm going to reduce the number to 24 (or so) by using wider bricks again that overlap an entire brick below. Taking out 1/3 of the number of bricks. I suspect they will get smaller again pretty quickly so I can reduce the number again.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I took out the floor, oh noez . 

I didn't like how these bricks, even though they are made for this, are slightly coarse. So I've ordered chamotte tiles which are for industrial baking ovens so much more durable. I already have one in my regular oven and that won't wear out in years/decades. I was afraid little bits and pieces would slowly come off the regular bricks and not that it matters for the oven floor but my teeth don't like that. 

But damn!. Took 10 minutes to take everything out... Right now I'm raising the floor by 3/4" because those tiles are less than 2"... And I want to have a little over 2" floor thickness. It takes longer to put back in. 

I'm getting hungry for pizza again so I might as well finish the thing now.

----------


## tod evans

Pictures?

----------


## Suzanimal

> Pictures?


Pizza?

----------


## Danke

April 7, 2014, soon after the demolition of the Metrodome, pit dig, and start of construction

----------


## Danke

The stadium was substantially completed six weeks before the ribbon-cutting ceremony, which was held on July 22, 2016.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> The stadium was substantially completed six weeks before the ribbon-cutting ceremony, which was held on July 22, 2016.


Ugly as hell. 

Wheres muh money Danke ?

----------


## Danke

> Ugly as hell. 
> 
> Wheres muh money Danke ?


That was only if you stopped posting in this thread.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Ugly as hell. 
> 
> Wheres muh money Danke ?


No kidding...looks like:

----------


## Danke

> No kidding...looks like:


it is supposed to be modeled after a Viking ship.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> it is supposed to be modeled after a Viking ship.


Jawas were Vikings?

----------


## Suzanimal

We were talking about pizza tonight. The boys want me to take them to Nancy's before the UFC fight Saturday night. We got tickets - Yay, I guess. I don't care about it but I don't want them driving downtown that late at night.

----------


## Danke

> We were talking about pizza tonight. The boys want me to take them to Nancy's before the UFC fight Saturday night. We got tickets - Yay, I guess. I don't care about it but I don't want them driving downtown that late at night.


 Just think, in a few more years you might just be able to travel to Holland, and eat fresh pizza from a homemade oven.

----------


## oyarde

Danke needs a wood fired oven attached to the kitchen , extra heat in winter.

----------


## Danke

> Danke needs a wood fired oven attached to the kitchen , extra heat in winter.


And a squaw to fetch the wood.   Or should I say, "pick some up."

----------


## oyarde

> And a squaw to fetch the wood.   Or "pick some up."


Good idea .

----------


## Danke

> Good idea .

----------


## Suzanimal

> Just think, in a few more years you might just be able to travel to Holland, and eat fresh pizza from a homemade oven.


I've already planed to get shipwrecked there once the oven's finished. Luc said I could crash at his place.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo



----------


## Suzanimal

^^^^Beautiful work!!!

----------


## tod evans

> ^^^^Beautiful work!!!


4 bricks since the last photo........

----------


## Suzanimal

> 4 bricks since the last photo........


It's been raining.

----------


## tod evans

> It's been raining.


It'll be snowing soon.......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo



----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It'll be snowing soon.......


Nah, global warming.

----------


## tod evans

> Nah, global warming.


At this rate you'll be under water.....  

Actually it's lookin' good.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> At this rate you'll be under water.....  
> 
> Actually it's lookin' good.


We are the Dutch, we build dykes if we have to. And no it's not going to take that long.. The end is in sight. More or less.

----------


## tod evans

> We are the Dutch, we build dykes if we have to. And no it's not going to take that long.. The end is in sight. More or less.


I'm just giving you $#@!....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I'm just giving you $#@!....


I'm not into global warming either.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 


The 11th course. Reducing from 36 to 18 bricks in a course. Thought it would be a major headache but they fit nicely. 




> 


The chimney, tested it out with some hay and it draws nicely. Left a space on both sides so I can fit a bar in there to suspend stuff that has to be smoked. I can probably sell my smoker when this is done.

----------


## Danke

> At this rate you'll be under water.....  
> 
> Actually it's lookin' good.


It must be costing a small fortune to keep renewing the permits to build that thing.

----------


## oyarde

> It must be costing a small fortune to keep renewing the permits to build that thing.


I gave them to him.No charge.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It must be costing a small fortune to keep renewing the permits to build that thing.


Permits ?





So since I took out the floor, I just stuck some pieces of brick on the center-point so I can continue building this thing form-free. Essentially all the bricks are cut so that when I put a straightedge on the side or top of the brick it hits the center-point.

----------


## Suzanimal

^^^Finally! A pizza!!!!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> ^^^Finally! A pizza!!!!


Not the best either. Not too bad but definitely not exiting. It used to be that going out for dinner would mean better tasting food but the last couple of years I rather eat at home . But takeaway pizza is convenient sometimes.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Not the best either. Not too bad but definitely not exiting. It used to be that going out for dinner would mean better tasting food but the last couple of years I rather eat at home . But takeaway pizza is convenient sometimes.


I don't care, I'm just glad to see a pizza in the damn oven.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I don't care, I'm just glad to see a pizza in the damn oven.


It's just the box... The pizza is long gone. I needed something that's a bit softer (than the brick underfloor) in case I drop a brick while sticking it on there. Amazingly though, this mortar-glue stuff is pretty damn strong. After 10 seconds or so it's hard to move these large bricks. I think even at 90 degrees they will stick although I'm quite sure they will fall off once it's been dried out since there's hardly any tensile strength.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Ordered the last materials I need to finish the oven/floor and insulation... When it comes in I should be able to finish the dome within a reasonable amount of time. 7 courses to go I think. I suspect it will be 18-18-18-18-18-9-1 bricks or something pretty similar. Got the first 18 of those ready to be stuck on. Although about half the time I have to grind a bit away to make a nice fit.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I really like how this looks.. Quite proud of it. I'm not complaining about it taking too long, no regrets. 






One layer up since the last pics. Starting to look like a dome isn't it ?

----------


## tod evans

I want to know the trick to cutting firebrick with red-handled scissors?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I want to know the trick to cutting firebrick with red-handled scissors?


Paper templates !

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well, one more then. Snapped this pic so might as well upload it... Here you can see the center-point I'm using as a guide. Oh, and I'm now using a mirror so I can look at the inside in a more comfortable way.

----------


## dannno

> Oh, and I'm now using a mirror so I can look at the inside in a more comfortable way.

----------


## Danke



----------


## luctor-et-emergo

>

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 


Burger looks dry.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Well, looks like I have to wait to the end of next week or the beginning of the week after that for my materials. 

In the meantime I'll be spending some of my spare time into the surrounding structure. I've ordered some lumber to make the wood frames for the rear and I've made a plan for the masonry in front. Since I put a couple hours of thinking into my early drawings everything seems to fit nicely and I won't have to do crazy stuff to make it work, especially the brick pattern, for some reason the dimensions of my oven are perfect for it. The roof is going to be significantly more complicated because it's an octagon and I have no real ability to brace the thing halfway or at the bottom. Luckily there will not be too much weight on top. I think I figured it out. It would have been a lot easier but I have a height constraint since there are beams above the oven for the veranda roof. The way I've got it drawn up right now with plenty space for insulation around the oven, the top of the roof will be about 3" from one of the beams.. 

The roof is mostly for decoration but it will have to handle all the water that comes from the veranda roof at the chimney since the veranda roof has gutter style lexan on top, in hindsight it would have been a lot nicer to just use wood and ceramic tiles for the veranda with two large windows in there for some light, a bit more expensive but it would have been a gazillion times more convenient to fit a chimney through there without leakage. I'm going to have to get a plumber over to bend/solder some custom zinc gutters around the chimney hole. There's like 30"  between the beams, they are at a 7degree, and the chimney is supposed to be 24", so there's not a lot of space to fit some zinc gutters. The space in between the beams I'm going to fill with some wood so you don't see the gutters and it's a bit neater... 

Long story, which I'm sure nobody will read, but sometimes writing something down helps making things clear. This topic is a bit like a notepad for me, I use it to generate ideas. Who knows, maybe someone can learn from the mistakes I'm making.

----------


## tod evans

Pop for copper flashing!

You've put all this time and money into it don't cut corners now.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Pop for copper flashing!
> 
> You've put all this time and money into it don't cut corners now.


I really like the look of copper flashing.. It doesn't fit the look of the house though. 
Since it's a small roof, I was thinking about small roofing tiles, the flat ones, used a lot in France. Dark grey with a lot of contrast. 

I'm not going to put something ugly on the roof. 

Instead of copper, zinc could be an option. As far as cost goes. I think everything together, including some of the tools I bought (watercooled 14" stone saw) it's around 5k (copper roof could change that, not common around here so it's expensive). The firebricks being the single most expensive part.

----------


## tod evans

> I really like the look of copper flashing.. It doesn't fit the look of the house though. 
> Since it's a small roof, I was thinking about small roofing tiles, the flat ones, used a lot in France. Dark grey with a lot of contrast. 
> 
> I'm not going to put something ugly on the roof. 
> 
> Instead of copper, zinc could be an option. As far as cost goes. I think everything together, including some of the tools I bought (watercooled 14" stone saw) it's around 5k (copper roof could change that, not common around here so it's expensive). The firebricks being the single most expensive part.


Zinc is what threw the flags for me...stainless or even lead will out live zinc, copper turns a cool shade of green, quickly if you acid wash it, brown if you heat and oil it..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Zinc is what threw the flags for me...stainless or even lead will out live zinc, copper turns a cool shade of green, quickly if you acid wash it, brown if you heat and oil it..


Which is why I prefer using ceramic tiles. They will outlast me.

Like these;


Available used/weathered and new in many different colors/sizes, small enough so it doesn't look ridiculous on such a small roof.

----------


## tod evans

> Which is why I prefer using ceramic tiles. They will outlast me.


Flashing with tile isn't something I've ever heard of though....

The zinc flashing used here isn't like what was available 50+ years ago, it rots in 10-15 years now..Whereas copper, lead and stainless all last unless they're perforated...

----------


## tod evans

> Flashing with tile isn't something I've ever heard of though....
> 
> The zinc flashing used here isn't like what was available 50+ years ago, it rots in 10-15 years now..Whereas copper, lead and stainless all last unless they're perforated...


Burnt copper for any ridges-n-valleys, even rafter ends if you don't close in the soffit and fascia....

I like those tiles!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Flashing with tile isn't something I've ever heard of though....
> 
> The zinc flashing used here isn't like what was available 50+ years ago, it rots in 10-15 years now..Whereas copper, lead and stainless all last unless they're perforated...


The Zinc here is good I guess, I don't know. The stuff we already have here in zinc is at least 20 years old and it looks like it's new. Haven't had a problem with it. Like I said, copper is not a usual material around here, not many people working with it, making it even more expensive.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Good news, the remaining materials for the dome will be delivered this week or Monday next week.  Lets get this thing done and make some pizza's.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

free photo upload

----------


## Okie RP fan

> Well, looks like I have to wait to the end of next week or the beginning of the week after that for my materials. 
> 
> In the meantime I'll be spending some of my spare time into the surrounding structure. I've ordered some lumber to make the wood frames for the rear and I've made a plan for the masonry in front. Since I put a couple hours of thinking into my early drawings everything seems to fit nicely and I won't have to do crazy stuff to make it work, especially the brick pattern, for some reason the dimensions of my oven are perfect for it. The roof is going to be significantly more complicated because it's an octagon and I have no real ability to brace the thing halfway or at the bottom. Luckily there will not be too much weight on top. I think I figured it out. It would have been a lot easier but I have a height constraint since there are beams above the oven for the veranda roof. The way I've got it drawn up right now with plenty space for insulation around the oven, the top of the roof will be about 3" from one of the beams.. 
> 
> The roof is mostly for decoration but it will have to handle all the water that comes from the veranda roof at the chimney since the veranda roof has gutter style lexan on top, in hindsight it would have been a lot nicer to just use wood and ceramic tiles for the veranda with two large windows in there for some light, a bit more expensive but it would have been a gazillion times more convenient to fit a chimney through there without leakage. I'm going to have to get a plumber over to bend/solder some custom zinc gutters around the chimney hole. There's like 30"  between the beams, they are at a 7degree, and the chimney is supposed to be 24", so there's not a lot of space to fit some zinc gutters. The space in between the beams I'm going to fill with some wood so you don't see the gutters and it's a bit neater... 
> 
> Long story, which I'm sure nobody will read, but sometimes writing something down helps making things clear. This topic is a bit like a notepad for me, I use it to generate ideas. Who knows, maybe someone can learn from the mistakes I'm making.


I read this. I've been watching this thread for years now. This is truly inspiring.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I read this. I've been watching this thread for years now. This is truly inspiring.


Thanks 


I just got the chimney damper that a buddy welded for me from stainless steel. Simple construction, nice fit but enough play on it so it won't lock up. Not an airtight seal but good enough to starve any fire or keep a lot of extra heat in when the fire is out. Will provide pics later.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So some more pics..

This is the damper valve, I might cut off some parts of the flanges and it will be a loose fit in the chimney with some glassfiber tape for expansion. 




Opens and closes nicely. Going to put the whole thing in the electric oven at max temperature and see how much it expands and if it's still operational before I put it in between the bricks.




I also finally got my floor tiles... So now I'm breaking my back to cut these back into the original shape. Trust me, this is truly backbreaking work. The hole in the top of the dome is 20", I'm not a real big guy but when I sit inside I can't tuck my head in to see something, too small, which is really frustrating.... But I'll get there. 

The surface of these tiles is amazing. Around the edges it may be slightly imperfect but the middle part is really smooth. 

(Color change due to moisture)

----------


## tod evans

You want imperfect around the edges, when, not if, you break one you can change it...

The small cracks will fill with hot crud pretty quickly...

Are there any stiffeners welded to the other side of your damper?

It looks to be less than 1/4"? 

You might want to think about it warping from heat.......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You want imperfect around the edges, when, not if, you break one you can change it...
> 
> The small cracks will fill with hot crud pretty quickly...
> 
> Are there any stiffeners welded to the other side of your damper?
> 
> It looks to be less than 1/4"? 
> 
> You might want to think about it warping from heat.......


We'll see but I don't think it will warp significantly..

----------


## Natural Citizen

Do you ever have guests over just for pizza, luctor? You know. Like hey, you should come on over and we can have pizza out of my wood fired pizza oven. And then y'all just sit around it having pizza. And then yer like yep...that's muh wood fired pizza oven. Ain't she a beaut. Num num num nyum....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Do you ever have guests over just for pizza, luctor? You know. Like hey, you should come on over and we can have pizza out of my wood fired pizza oven. And then y'all just sit around it having pizza. And then yer like yep...that's muh wood fired pizza oven. Ain't she a beaut. Num num num nyum....


Well, not yet. But I have friends over for bbq or other food all year long.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So... Almost literally backbreaking work. The hole on top is less than half the diameter. Working inside it was horrible but I couldn't be more happy with the result. Still a bit of a different color in there because of residual moisture but that will be gone in a day or so. Now there's just the last few courses of the dome left to do and we can technically make pizza.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Luctor, did I already ask you, ever been to Napoli?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Luctor, did I already ask you, ever been to Napoli?


Naples ? Yeah, been there twice.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Go to Sorbillo's?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Go to Sorbillo's?


No.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> No.


I recommend it!  Amazing, tremendous, wonderful.  _That_ is the pizza to obsess over copying.  It just seems a shame someone so close to Italy would have had their best pizza in.... _France!_  The scandal!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I recommend it!  Amazing, tremendous, wonderful.  _That_ is the pizza to obsess over copying.  It just seems a shame someone so close to Italy would have had their best pizza in.... _France!_  The scandal!


Yeah, well, what can I say. It was very close to Italy though... And the restaurant was tiny. Lots of return costumers though. Simple food, prepared with love. 

If I ever find myself in Naples again I'll try a pizza there.

----------


## Danke

This time the song.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> This time the song.


Merica!

----------


## Danke

> Merica!


"It is located on Fifth Avenue between 33rd and 34th Streets in Manhattan. The Empire State Building took only one year and 45 days to build"

And that was in the 1930's.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> "It is located on Fifth Avenue between 33rd and 34th Streets in Manhattan. The Empire State Building took only one year and 45 days to build"
> 
> And that was in the 1930's.


Don't tell the turrerists.

----------


## Danke

http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...-for-slow.html

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...-for-slow.html


You hungry ?

----------


## Danke

> You hungry ?


Do you have some Dutch woman for sale?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Do you have some Dutch woman for sale?


No but I can sell you an old bicycle.

----------


## Danke

> No but I can sell you an old bicycle.


Where do I park it?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Where do I park it?


Well, not in the street with all the trannies, unless of course, you are into that sort of thing.

----------


## Suzanimal

> So... Almost literally backbreaking work. The hole on top is less than half the diameter. Working inside it was horrible but I couldn't be more happy with the result. Still a bit of a different color in there because of residual moisture but that will be gone in a day or so. Now there's just the last few courses of the dome left to do and we can technically make pizza.


Beautiful, Luc!!!

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...-for-slow.html


LOL

_"langzamer laten lopen"_

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

The finished floor, polished the stainless. Still have to pacify it but it's removable. It's sitting on two pieces of brick and some insulation. The entrance floor is a bit higher so stuff can easily slide over the SS and the floor inside is a bit lower so the edge of the bricks won't get damaged. In this way the piece of stainless can do what it's designed for, minimize the transfer of thermal energy between the two floors.

----------


## Danke

Mods, due to inaction, close this thread.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Mods, due to inaction, close this thread.


Where's muh money Danke ?

----------


## Danke

> Where's muh money Danke ?


You didn't stop. No money Ducthboy.  If you want to raise money to finish your project which is taking over two years now, try selling some tulips. Or carve some nice  wooden shoes for Suzanamal.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6230589

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6269181

----------


## oyarde

I have tulips for sale .

----------


## Danke

> I have tulips for sale .


 $#@!, just what this thread needs, another native freeloader looking for a handout.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You didn't stop. No money Ducthboy.  If you want to raise money to finish your project which is taking over two years now, try selling some tulips. Or carve some nice  wooden shoes for Suzanamal.
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6230589
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6269181


I don't need to raise money. However, if you have a time machine that I could borrow. It would be much appreciated.

----------


## oyarde

> $#@!, just what this thread needs, another native freeloader looking for a handout.


So , how many tulip bulbs would you like ?

----------


## Danke

Which took longer to build?

1.  The Taj Mahal. 

2.  The great wall of China. 

3. luctor-et-emerge's pizza oven.


Trick question, oven has not been built yet.

----------


## Danke

> So , how many tulip bulbs would you like ?


I'd prefer beads so I can trade with your young squaws.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Which took longer to build?
> 
> 1.  The Taj Mahal. 
> 
> 2.  The great wall of China. 
> 
> 3. luctor-et-emerge's pizza oven.
> 
> 
> Trick question, oven has not been built yet.


Almost done though...

----------


## Danke

> Almost done though...


How many refugees died building this pizza oven?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> How many refugees died building this pizza oven?


Not a single one. I did however massacre some spiders.

----------


## Danke

> Not a single one. I did however massacre some spiders.


How many Dutch pizza delivery persons Will be put out of a job because of your endeavor.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> How many Dutch pizza delivery persons Will be put out of a job because of your endeavor.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Almost done though...


Repost to clear the noise .

----------


## Danke

> 


Dutch boy $#@!ting on his rivalry to the south. No surprises here.  They probably make superior pizza ovens. We all know they have better beer.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Dutch boy $#@!ting on his rivalry to the south. No surprises here.  They probably make superior pizza ovens. We all know they have better beer.

----------


## Danke



----------


## Danke



----------


## Danke



----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Reported.

----------


## Danke

> Reported.


To the Dutch police.  Lol, are they even issued real guns?  Let alone know how to use them.

----------


## tod evans

> Repost to clear the noise .


Maybe pizza by Christmas?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Maybe pizza by Christmas?


Sure but I don't care. Still not getting paid for it.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

I'll just repost this again for the people who like to see the pics instead of trolling.

----------


## tod evans

Here's another project for you;











Better pics at link......

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Here's another project for you;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty damn cool.. But...

I've can smoke stuff in the pizza oven chimney, or my Oklahoma type smoker..
I don't really have the space for it. 
I've already got my next hobby project lined up. It will be a cat or trimeran that I can take out on weekends to take advantage of the wind and water we've got around here. I love sailing but I don't have a boat. And I've got some nice ideas that I'd like to try. 

So yeah.. 

In the meantime though. I was looking for roof tiles. Couldn't find what I wanted. 
So I bought a shedload of clay (not really but a couple hundred lbs.) to make my own after seeing this video;




More on that later. The clay has to dry 2-3 weeks or so before I fire it, according to the guy at the shop. I've made a *mould*/form (damn you Americans and your funny English) and a drying rack. Now all I need is time to form several hundred small tiles with two holes in them to nail them down. Flat rectangular tiles by the way. 3" wide by 5" tall or so. The clay should turn black/dark gray after firing. With a lot of variation since I'll be using wood and no thermometer or cones to determine temperature.

----------


## oyarde

When I was young I would use Tulip Poplar bark for shed roofs. I always thought it would last 4 - 6 yrs but it did not matter as I would need to move it before that to keep hidden from the Revenuers .

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> When I was young I would use Tulip Poplar bark for shed roofs. I always thought it would last 4 - 6 yrs but it did not matter as I would need to move it before that to keep hidden from the Revenuers .


Wooden shingles are nice as a roofing material. It doesn't really fit the region though. Roofs are done with ceramic tiles around here, red or black ones, glazed or non-glazed. I don't like the modern ceramic tiles that are used though, they're way too technical and are generally screwed down onto the roof, which makes climbing the roof impossible without a long ladder. With the old tiles we're used to push a tile up under the tile above and you've created a step.. 

So yeah, I found some time to work on the oven, finally.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Oculus.

----------


## Suzanimal

> Oculus.


Niculus.

+rep

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Can't fit my damn head through the hole anymore.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

This hole is definitely getting smaller.

----------


## tod evans



----------


## Suzanimal

> This hole is definitely getting smaller.


That's what he said...

----------


## Anti Federalist

I think you're doing just fine luctor.

Do not let the hecklers get to you.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> I think you're doing just fine luctor.
> 
> Do not let the hecklers get to you.


$#@! the haters, obviously. 

ONE BRICK LEFT!!!  A pentagon keystone. (not exactly equal sides)

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## tod evans

> $#@! the haters, obviously. 
> 
> ONE BRICK LEFT!!!  A pentagon keystone. (not exactly equal sides)

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## Suzanimal

> $#@! the haters, obviously. 
> 
> ONE BRICK LEFT!!!  A pentagon keystone. (not exactly equal sides)


Danke had better get busy ordering his pizza oven or you just might beat him.

----------


## oyarde

I have notified the Gov. of Minnesota that Danke has been banned from pizza in accordance with USDA 9 CFR  319.600 , 9 CFR 317.8 (b) (40) and 318.125 (f) and others. This may not be contested in accordance with USDO .

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 


Done. Going to enjoy one of these right now;
 

(2016 version though)

----------


## oyarde

NO PiZZA FOR DANKE

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## oyarde

> Done. Going to enjoy one of these right now;
>  
> 
> (2016 version though)


That looks tasty.

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## tod evans

> Done. Going to enjoy one of these right now;
>  
> 
> (2016 version though)


One?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> One?


For now, yes. It's 10% alc. though. So two normal beers.

----------


## tod evans

> For now, yes. It's 10% alc. though. So two normal beers.


Good grief man!

They sell beer in single dose packaging, 6 per serving...


[edit]

Salted dark beer in a frosted mug is my cool weather weakness......

Bastard!

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## Suzanimal

Is this thing finished?

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## oyarde

> Is this thing finished?


Last night I had pork chop sandwiches . Tonight , grilled Brats , sliced , on pizza . I have the grandaughters saying " No Pizza For Danke " whenever they get a slice .

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## luctor-et-emergo

Forgot to post this one... But here it is.

----------


## tod evans

> Forgot to post this one... But here it is.


Here ya' go again;




>

----------


## Danke

After learning the subculture of Pizza, Dutch boy make sense now, Europeans are a strange lot.

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## oyarde

> Forgot to post this one... But here it is.


Great job!!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Great job!!


Thanks!

Looks better from the inside though... The white stuff has to be brushed off, not sure what it is but it has continuously appeared during drying and after brushing it off it doesn't come back.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Finally!!

So, I just post my shipping address here to receive pizza, right?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Finally!!
> 
> So, I just post my shipping address here to receive pizza, right?


You could try that but I don't think it would arrive warm.

----------


## tod evans

How about a picture of the whole thing? 

Several from different sides would help get a feel for where you are with it now..

----------


## dannno

> After learning the subculture of Pizza, Dutch boy make sense now, Europeans are a strange lot.





> The white stuff has to be brushed off, not sure what it is but it has continuously appeared during drying


Sounds like someone is breaking in your "pizza oven" for you.

----------


## Suzanimal

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this thing being done.

----------


## Suzanimal

I found some zebra? fuzz wooden shoes at the thrift store. I've never seen a light tan/brown zebra before but since they're wooden I figured it may be from a Dutch zebra.

----------


## tod evans

> I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this thing being done.


It's far from "done" but it could be used for cooking..

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## Suzanimal

> It's far from "done" but it could be *used for cooking*..


If it's a pizza oven, then I'd call that done. If it's going to be used for more kinky Dutch things, as Danke suggested,  then he might have a few more bits, bobs, handcuffs to add.

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## tod evans

> If it's a pizza oven, then I'd call that done. If it's going to be used for more kinky Dutch things, as Danke suggested,  then he might have a few more bits, bobs, handcuffs to add.


It really needs to be covered before it freezes there, water and firebrick don't mix well, especially in freezing weather..

Then I figure it'll need some make-pretty work to match the base...Remember the cast concrete pieces he made several years ago?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It really needs to be covered before it freezes there, water and firebrick don't mix well, especially in freezing weather..
> 
> Then I figure it'll need some make-pretty work to match the base...Remember the cast concrete pieces he made several years ago?


Correct. It is already giving me a headache.

And the thing is covered with a heating cable inside. One of those things used in terrariums.

----------


## tod evans

> Correct. It is already giving me a headache.
> 
> And the thing is covered with a heating cable inside. One of those things used in terrariums.


You could make Danke happy and cover it with Dutch bimbos...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> You could make Danke happy and cover it with Dutch bimbos...


It would make me happier as well. But I'm afraid Danke has to get his happy ending somewhere else.

----------


## tod evans

> It would make me happier as well. But I'm afraid Danke has to get his happy ending somewhere else.


Most bimbos aren't watertight....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Most bimbos aren't watertight....


No but they are replaceable.

----------


## tod evans

> No but they are replaceable.


Your brickwork isn't though, better to follow Bill Clinton's lead and keep your bimbos under the desk instead of over the pizza oven..

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Your brickwork isn't though, better to follow Bill Clinton's lead and keep your bimbos under the desk instead of over the pizza oven..


Yup, but that's taken care of.

----------


## tod evans

> Yup, but that's taken care of.


Bricks are in the dry for winter?

You know you could use bimbo cheeks for your tile pattern.....Living/organic mould(s)...

You'd have a one of a kind pizza oven cover.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Bricks are in the dry for winter?
> 
> You know you could use bimbo cheeks for your tile pattern.....Living/organic mould(s)...
> 
> You'd have a one of a kind pizza oven cover.


lol

----------


## tod evans



----------


## tod evans



----------


## Okie RP fan

> Forgot to post this one... But here it is.


Well, I can't give you any more rep for now. 
But, congrats. This looks great and I hope it serves many, many pizzas and other foods and things. 

Now, we can all do a super secret illuminati dance around the pentagon shape and christen it with a sacrifice. 

A sacrifice of pizza.

----------


## tod evans

First fire pics?

----------


## presence

> 




aummmmmmmm

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Thanks everyone 




> First fire pics?


I need a chimney first.

----------


## tod evans

> Thanks everyone 
> 
> 
> I need a chimney first.


Excuses!

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Excuses!


Yeah, I know... The polycarbonate sheets on top of the roof were not my choice however.... If it were anything else, it would be easy to waterproof. This stuff sucks however. I am kind of done with this stuff. Everything I made works. Everything I still have to make is kind of $#@!ed up because of a lack of space because of a contractor who said he'd take that into account but apparently didn't. Turns out that if you want stuff done well, you have to do it yourself. (and this is the first $#@!ing oven I built lol)

----------


## alivecream

It has been my dream to have a wood fired oven at home, pizza taste way better when cooked in a wood fired oven

----------


## Danke

My electric pizza oven still going strong.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ighlight=Pizza

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## luctor-et-emergo

Ah, there u are.. 

Yes my oven still is not finished.......... It is very close however. 
I hardly have time to work on it, I could pay someone to finish it but nah. I want to do it myself. 


I did get all the remaining bricks I need (last week)... So from now on I can spend some hours on it in the weekends. It's just normal brickwork left, no more firebrick domes :P.

----------


## Suzanimal



----------


## oyarde

I had pizza last night . I think it came from the electric oven in the kitchen , Mrs O brought it to my leather chair like she is supposed to . She must want something .

----------


## dannno

06-22-2014, 07:16 AM

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> 06-22-2014, 07:16 AM


Yes, yes, it has taken long to get this far and it's not done yet. 
I'm satisfied, that's all I care about really.  Nobody is paying me to do this, unfortunately.

----------


## Danke

*Mohammed Is Most Popular Name For Newborn Boys In Holland For 2nd Year Straight*too many projects for natives to make babies

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-year-straight

----------


## oyarde

> *Mohammed Is Most Popular Name For Newborn Boys In Holland For 2nd Year Straight*too many projects for natives to make babies
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-year-straight


Do Buddhist's all name the kids Buddha ?

----------


## loveshiscountry

By working on this project his countrys GDP has gone up. Granted nothing has been produced. Well, except for GDP.....

----------


## Suzanimal

It's almost been 4 years, I was just wondering how the pizza oven is coming along.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> It's almost been 4 years, I was just wondering how the pizza oven is coming along.


I made a fire in it quite recently. Works great.

----------


## Suzanimal

> I made a fire in it quite recently. Works great.


Did you stick a pizza in there?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Did you stick a pizza in there?


No. Unfortunately I still need a solution for the chimney. I could pay someone to do it for me (as I have no time), but since I haven't found a good solution yet, I doubt I'll be happy with whatever that person would come up with nor the bill. The problem is these stupid polycarbonate sheets on the roof above. If they were flat I could use clamping force and lots of caulking stuff to make it waterproof, however, this stuff has ribs in it. The only way it can work decently is with a lot of custom made lead and stainless gutter that's made around the chimney(too small for any kind of normal stuff, has to be custom welded stainless). Bear in mind, I originally specified to the contractor who built this exactly what kind of chimney would go there, and where, but he put a beam in the way of my gutter.

----------


## Danke

> It's almost been 4 years, I was just wondering how the pizza oven is coming along.



Give him time.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Give him time.


At least you understand.

----------


## phill4paul

> It's almost been 4 years, I was just wondering how the pizza oven is coming along.


  If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months.

----------


## Danke

> If a man says he'll get something done, then he'll get it done. You don't need to keep reminding him every 6 months.


"man?"

He's Dutch.  Don't make Germans laugh.

----------


## tod evans



----------


## Suzanimal



----------


## luctor-et-emergo

Yeah I know, unfortunately my time has become too valuable.

----------


## tod evans

> Yeah I know, unfortunately *my time has become too valuable*.


Au contraire!

All the time all these people put into egging you on is at least equally valuable and we want some $#@!ing results....

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> Au contraire!
> 
> All the time all these people put into egging you on is at least equally valuable and we want some $#@!ing results....


Well, if any of you are coming over, just to eat pizza... Then I'll probably feel obligated to finish it.

----------


## dannno

It's still not done?!?!

----------


## Swordsmyth

> "man?"
> 
> He's Dutch.  Don't make Germans laugh.


Why do Germans refer to themselves as Dutch?

----------


## dannno

> Why do Germans refer to themselves as Dutch?


Germans refer to themselves as Deutshes. (pronounced "douches")

















jk

----------


## oyarde

I had pizza last night . It was a thick crust though and the crust sucked . I ate two pc.'s anyway .

----------


## Suzanimal

> Not all scientific research takes place in labs. Just ask food anthropologist Sergio Grasso and physicists Andrey Varlamov and Andreas Glatz, who had the tough job of sampling Margherita pizzas across Rome in the lead up to their paper, "The Physics of Baking Good Pizza." The pizzaiolos of Italy have the process down pat, relying on curved brick ovens heated to 625 degrees Fahrenheit to perfectly bake the pie of tomato, mozzarella, and basil on all sides in two minutes, the authors found. They also learned duplicating this process in your standard electric oven would turn a pizza to "coal" since metal conducts heat much better than brick, reports Live Science. There is a solution, however.
> 
> Per Particle, the authors developed a mathematical formula to show how a pizza could be baked to near-perfection in an electric oven. They recommend baking a pie at 450 degrees Fahrenheit for 170 seconds, or slightly longer if the chosen toppings have a high water content "as the pizza will return more heat to the oven via evaporation," per Live Science. Broiling the top at this point would work, too, per Reader's Digest. While you may not get the even cook of a brick oven—if necessary, pizzaiolos lift the pizza base from the oven while allowing the toppings to continue cooking with radiant heat for about 30 seconds—the pie should be similar to Rome's pizza, the authors say


http://www.newser.com/story/266898/s...a-at-home.html

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## Suzanimal



----------


## oyarde

I was thinking about pizza tonight , but , Nah going to go with fried shrimp and onion rings .

----------


## tod evans



----------


## oyarde

I had leftover pizza for lunch from my pizza warmer .

----------


## Swordsmyth

I think @Danke should do something about this, if he managed to build a pizza oven first it might shame the OP into finishing the project.

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## Danke

> I think @Danke should do something about this, if he managed to build a pizza oven first it might shame the OP into finishing the project.





> My electric pizza oven still going strong.
> 
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?500605-I-m-ordering-a-pizza-oven&highlight=


Did.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Did.


A wood fired one not an electric one.

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## oyarde

I would eat a pc of pizza but I have no frozen pizza . Maybe Danke will loan me one . All I have are twenties and I cannot make change .

----------


## oyarde

I skipped breakfast today to go to the white kings wicked moneychanger to pay property tax , I could go for some pizza .

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I skipped breakfast today to go to the white kings wicked moneychanger to pay property tax , I could go for some pizza .


 @Danke has a pizza oven and he can fly, I think he should bring you a pizza by airmail.

----------


## Cloutio

Sounds great

----------


## Suzanimal

People eating grasshoppers are worried about where they're sourced?  




> Grasshoppers on pizza? New menu item at Las Vegas pizzeria is taking the world by swarm
> 
> LAS VEGAS – In the kitchen of a Las Vegas pizzeria, there’s a new ingredient landing atop New York-style slices.
> 
> And you might call it chicken of the desert: grasshoppers.
> 
> “The Canyon Hopper” pizza at Evel Pie hit the menu this week after a biblical-level migration of pallid-winged grasshoppers swarmed Sin City’s neon lights and sidewalks – an invasion so thick it looked like a storm on weather radar.
> 
> "It's hit the world by swarm," Branden Powers, Evel Pie's managing partner and creator, told the USA TODAY Network.
> ...

----------


## Superfluous Man

> He actually ordered them on Amazon Prime. They arrived in bags from Oaxaca, a Mexican city known for grasshoppers – or “chapulines.”


Hey, I think that's where Bob Higgs lives now.

----------


## Schifference

In June 2016, I requested a recipe for an easy thin crust dough recipe. OP was gracious enough to share with me. We made it the other day. It is truly best after a few days of resting. It was absolutely fantastic! Here it is:

1000grams flour ('pastry flour', in the US. Not all purpose flour)
650grams/ml water, cool/not cold but certainly not warm!
20grams salt
A little bit of yeast, you don't need much. Couple grams. As little as 5g/kg of flour is fine.

First mix all of the water with about 1/3 of the flour and the yeast. Mix it a bit, let it stand for 15-20mins. Nice bubbles should form. Add the rest of the flour and use a spoon or something to mix it until it's less sticky. Then you knead it by hand until it's a ball. Add the salt to your workspace and further knead the dough while incorporating the salt. It should 'sweat' a bit or feel as if it's becoming more moist after you add the salt, then it should turn into an elastic dough. Once it's elastic and smooth enough. You let it rest. I've got a granite counter-top so I simply leave it on there with a damp towel on top.

Then after about an hour, you divide the dough into individual dough balls. I generally make 6 small pizzas out of this recipe or 4 larger ones. Now you could use the dough after resting it for about another hour. I prefer to make the dough in advance and then put my dough-balls on a plastic cutting-board with a moist towel/cloth on top of it in the fridge for 24hrs. This really develops the taste in the dough.

Never add oil, never add sugar. There's no need for it. Oil will make it more biscuit like.

Keep it simple and let it rest. It tastes best on day 3. It starts to become something like a sourdough.

----------


## Dundelionn

> I was thinking about pizza tonight , but , Nah going to go with fried shrimp and onion rings .


How about pizza with shrimps and onion rings? 




> I had pizza last night . It was a thick crust though and the crust sucked . I ate two pc.'s anyway .


Nice. I guess I can eat two pizzas at time too. By the way, what pizza did you have? I think the crust could be a bit raw and the issue could be with oven. Check this article, some ovens can heat up just for 3750 F max which may be not enough for some recipes.

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## Okie RP fan

What in sam hill is going on here luctor? You still haven't finished this!? 

I think we're all owed two pizzas each at this point for having to wait this long after all of the moral and keyboard support we've given you.

----------


## tod evans

> 





> 


2018...........

----------


## Danke



----------


## oyarde

Going with burgers tonight .

----------


## Okie RP fan

> Going with burgers tonight .


Well, it's not like you have much of a choice since it certainly won't be one of luctor's pizzas.

----------


## Suzanimal

Damn, now I'm craving a pizza. 

Mr A says my pizzas aren't really pizza because I take a spinach tortilla and top it with red pesto, spinach, onions, red peppers, artichoke hearts, spicy pickled brussel sprouts (my latest obsession), red pepper flakes, garlic, basil, and oregano. Delish. Mr A says he's being generous when he calls it a flatbread but it's not pizza. I call it pizza just to annoy him.  I cook it in the Nuwave for 8 minutes - that's how long it takes me to pee, wash my face, give Brian Setzer lovins,  and change into my jammies after I get home from work. No pizza oven required.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

So, you guys probably won't believe me, but I spent some time working on the oven last weekend. Actually made quite good progress (finishing some open ends/headaches that needed resolving) after not touching anything for a long time. Determined to get it completed this spring. More to come, stay tuned.

Also, I've noticed the pictures are offline. I don't think I'll put them back in the posts but I think I will re-upload them at some point in some form for those that are interested.

----------


## oyarde

we are interested  , pics please. At least your living in luxury Luctor  tebowlives has just a hot dog on a stick at the hobo camp .

----------


## tebowlives

This entire thread is indicative of the Trump presidency. A lot of promises, but nothing was produced.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> This entire thread is indicative of the Trump presidency. A lot of promises, but nothing was produced.




Fire

----------


## tod evans

"Bout time!

What's lacking? I've forgot...

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> "Bout time!
> 
> What's lacking? I've forgot...


Next will be the vermicrete concrete layer, there's a layer of ceramic insulation blankets over the dome now after which I fired it up a number of times. After that the front piece and chimney part are last to be finished. In the end I am going to make it like a dome/iglu from the back (so no building/wooden contraption to make it less bulky) with a brick front piece and chimney. So that's going to be cement stucco over the insulation layer, probably painted dark green to fit in with the rest of the house. That's all really. There have been good reasons for not working on this project for a while but I am happy to be in progress again.

----------


## Invisible Man

luctor-et-emergo's wife: So, Luctor, have you finished that pizza oven yet?

luctor-et-emergo: I said I would finish it, and that means I'll finish it. You don't have to keep asking me about it every year.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> luctor-et-emergo's wife: So, Luctor, have you finished that pizza oven yet?
> 
> luctor-et-emergo: I said I would finish it, and that means I'll finish it. You don't have to keep asking me about it every year.


Does that make you guys my wife ?

----------


## tebowlives

> Does that make you guys my wife ?


How many decades did it take for you to propose?

"As soon as I finish my pizza oven we can get married."


This is fun. The only thing that isn't getting torched in this thread is pizza.

----------


## dannno

Pizza vending machine in Japan

----------


## alivecream

Japan is a strangely awesome country! Everything is different. I mean, pizza vending machine.. that's genius. But I still want my pizza made in an oven.

----------


## Suzanimal

> So, *you guys probably won't believe me*, but I spent some time working on the oven last weekend. Actually made quite good progress (finishing some open ends/headaches that needed resolving) after not touching anything for a long time. Determined to get it completed this spring. More to come, stay tuned.
> 
> Also, I've noticed the pictures are offline. I don't think I'll put them back in the posts but I think I will re-upload them at some point in some form for those that are interested.

----------


## tebowlives

> Japan is a strangely awesome country! Everything is different. I mean, pizza vending machine.. that's genius. *But I still want my pizza made in an oven.*


*You're in the wrong thread then*

----------


## oyarde

Looking forward to pizza with Luctor .

----------


## phill4paul

> 


  This.

----------

