# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  I've been off grid for around 2.5 months so far...

## Wooden Indian

and here are some of my initial observations based off of my experience:

1. I made it a bigger deal than it is.
I don't feel much different out here than I did back in the city and that's both good and bad. The good is that things like lights, heat, food, and even entertainment are close enough to "modern" conveniences to be nearly seamless for me. The bad is that I still feel the anxiety I had back with a mortgage, light bills, etc. That sense of peace simply did not come as I had hoped and imagined.

2. It's more expensive than I had calculated.
Even though I don't have the same bills, I find I have FAR less in my wallet. Before we moved out here, I bought nearly everything I needed to get started and carried it with me... yet, I find myself making so many purchases that within 2-3 days after payday... I'm broke again and nearly counting quarters to get by for another 2 weeks. New pumps, filters, dirt, gravel, batteries, tires, repairs, fuel, it just never ends.

3. The weather is my enemy.
Sure, we stay warm enough using the kerosene heater and the propane and sure even with the limited sun (it goes 3 days at a time without even seeing it), I am able to stretch the battery bank out if I am diligent, I am constantly very aware of the weather and the forecast. I worry about how much more rain I'll have, if I'll get enough sun and how soon, is it going to freeze, and on and on. Put blankets and insulation over the windows, take em down. Cover the door with a drape, take it down. Small things, but don't think the small things don't wear on you, because they do.

In the end, I'm glad I did it. I found flaws with the land itself after I spent time here, but it is what it is and even with the issues above and the many others I didn't go into, it's nice to not worry about a mortgage payment every month... but if you are considering doing this, realize that those worries are simply replaced with new ones, and unless you are perhaps fairly wealthy or single, this may not be the lifestyle for you.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Cool, got more information about the building you are inhabiting ?

But yeah, it sounds logical that you have high bills starting off. Should taper down at some point though. 

Also, it depends on the comfort level you want.. I once lived for 10 days in the forest in a survival shelter we made in a couple hours.. Wintertime, pyramid shape, hole in the top, fire in the middle. It was great. Now I can see how you can't live like that but in between this and complete luxury there's a very big range of expenses that you could or must make.

Anyways, have fun and enjoy life, that's what it's all about I think. Having to repair something, isn't always a horrible experience, it can be satisfying.

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## brandon

Sounds like it's going to be a great life experience, even if it isn't something you want to continue doing in the long term. Takes balls to try something new like that.... good job.

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## Feelgood

Good for you and breaking the tether!

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## Working Poor

I am working to get off grid. I am about half off now. It did cost going in. Some things I have gotten much better at like for instance scrounging. The only time I am bothered is when I have to go into town for business. I love the quite and being in a community of folks that are somewhat like me who just want to be left alone. 

I have much work to do but I am really enjoying it. I hope you will be enjoying it soon too. I think it is more difficult with winter coming on. I think spring and summer will yield some good things for you though hang in there cause I know it will get better. One day I know you will be glad you did it.

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## phill4paul

2.5 months is really not enough time to make a clear evaluation as to whether you are suited to living off grid. Give it some time. Much of the work that goes into it we rural folk call "chores." Once you get them down they become second nature and won't seem quite the hassle.
  Noticed that your heating is done with propane and kerosene. Do you live in a wooded area? Is supplemental wood heat a viable option?

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## GomerPile

Off grid for 3 years.  Stressing about the power, heat, water takes a bit longer to get over.  Took me about a year, now I only notice when my battery alarm goes off   Adding insulation to your house, a good quality 2KW generator (Honda EU2000), and wood stove are all excellent investments BTW.

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## Steve-in-NY

I'd love to hear more in-depth on those of you that are off grid. Setup, lessons learned, tips/tricks, etc. I find it to be very interesting.

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## CaptUSA

> I'd love to hear more in-depth on those of you that are off grid. Setup, lessons learned, tips/tricks, etc. I find it to be very interesting.


My guess is that if they can post in an internet forum, they're not really "off the grid".

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## pcosmar

> My guess is that if they can post in an internet forum, they're not really "off the grid".


Does homeless count.? untethered and untracked (mostly)

btw,, I am still looking for housing..

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## Wooden Indian

I love the chores end of it. Look forward to every one of them really... maybe not the composting lol. But I do still work my day job around 10 hours a day. 

We had planned to drive up here in the RV we bought on Craigslist and stay in it for a mere month or two then have an old mobile home hauled back here. But the rain flooded the roads pretty good and even my 4X4 gets stuck every once in awhile just getting off the property. So we'll be in the RV through the winter. This spring I'll clear some more land on the north end and start leveling and bringing in more soil and rock. 

Plan is that by next winter the tiny house will be up insulated. So we may just skip the mobile home stage and stay in the RV for the year. Only time will tell.

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## GomerPile

Off grid is a very broad term. How you define off grid is very problematic.  If you use propane are you off the grid? The propane tank is sitting there in your yard (off the grid) but there is a pretty serious "grid" involved in getting that propane to you.

I have designed my living situation around what will happen if the the grid went down, what systems would be impacted? When I run out of propane, I will have no hot water...which is not the end of the world. When I run out of gasoline my microwave and toaster ovens won't work. I also lose the ability to charge my battery bank in the winter...again not a huge issue. You will notice that I did not mention the loss of water. Thats because I use a super low power pump that can run from PV panels directly if needed. It only pumps 1/2 GPM but it pumps!  Had I picked a "normal" well pump it would be a hell of a lot harder to run it if the grid went down. You will also notice that I can run it directly from PV panels when/if my batteries wear out....more fault tolerance.

For cooking I use a denatured alcohol stove which is far more convenient than wood. If the grid goes down, I can distill it from things I grow. I could have used propane but decided that this was better...I'm also not a gourmet chef 

I guess what I'm saying not to worry so much about being disconnected from the grid, worry about what happens when the grid disconnects from you and everything will be fine.




> My guess is that if they can post in an internet forum, they're not really "off the grid".

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## klamath

> My guess is that if they can post in an internet forum, they're not really "off the grid".


Off the grid refers to the Power grid.

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## klamath

> Off grid is a very broad term. How you define off grid is very problematic.  If you use propane are you off the grid? The propane tank is sitting there in your yard (off the grid) but there is a pretty serious "grid" involved in getting that propane to you.
> 
> I have designed my living situation around what will happen if the the grid went down, what systems would be impacted? When I run out of propane, I will have no hot water...which is not the end of the world. When I run out of gasoline my microwave and toaster ovens won't work. I also lose the ability to charge my battery bank in the winter...again not a huge issue. You will notice that I did not mention the loss of water. Thats because I use a super low power pump that can run from PV panels directly if needed. It only pumps 1/2 GPM but it pumps!  Had I picked a "normal" well pump it would be a hell of a lot harder to run it if the grid went down. You will also notice that I can run it directly from PV panels when/if my batteries wear out....more fault tolerance.
> 
> For cooking I use a denatured alcohol stove which is far more convenient than wood. If the grid goes down, I can distill it from things I grow. I could have used propane but decided that this was better...I'm also not a gourmet chef 
> 
> I guess what I'm saying not to worry so much about being disconnected from the grid, worry about what happens when the grid disconnects from you and everything will be fine.


 This is the original and true meaning of "Grid" in "off the grid". 


> An electrical grid is an interconnected network for delivering electricity from suppliers to consumers. It consists of generating stations that produce electrical power, high-voltage transmission lines that carry power from distant sources to demand centers, and distribution lines that connect individual customers


I have been off the grid for 48 years.

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## NapoleonIII

I grew up on a farm with no electricity.

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## Wooden Indian

Off Grid- I use solar to power my home, propane tanks I exchange and rotate out to primarily  heat it, my water is pumped from my stream to my tank to my home, my waste is composted, and I use cellular phones for data. Now, I do want to heat and cook on wood but it's not time for that just yet. 

Not a wire nor a pipe extend to my property from any outside service. 

And God willing things will stay that way.

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## goRPaul

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience!  I've considered off grid living for some time now, not sure whether or not I'll commit.

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## Wooden Indian

Thought I'd update a little-

Though I lived in the city, and some major ones, for most of my life, I've only received one ticket... and here I am already heading to the courthouse in "Po-dunk", NC.
I Pulled out of the hardware store onto the 25 MPH little road, decided on which route I would take into town, when the blue lights fired through my rear window.

"Noticed you didn't have your seat belt on, sir- Here's you're ticket- Have a nice day." 

$179.00

Can't escape the man. May have been better hiding in plain sight. Maybe not. Interesting just the same.

Oh, and this happened the other day; I was picking up a well point at the Tractor Supply (which is more like a GAP or American Eagle store these days) when the guy looks at me and goes, "Now, you know you're not allowed to use this if they can get city water to you, right? You can get in trouble for that. You'll want to call and make sure you're allowed to drive it." I searched his eyes for any sign of sarcasm, even a "wink-wink nudge-nudge" curl of his lips.... there was none. He was serious and undoubtedly would turn me in if it were convenient and or he was asked. So, I agreed, made my purchase with cash, and made my way home.

Well trained. Obedient. Good dogs. Even out here in the sticks.

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## tod evans

> Well trained. Obedient. Good dogs. Even out here in the sticks.


Big government do-gooders abound in rural areas, how many there are and who they focus on depends on the area.

Here in the Ozarks your family are foreigners until you've been here for 3 generations, longer if you're from Yankee stock......

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Thought I'd update a little-
> 
> Though I lived in the city, and some major ones, for most of my life, I've only received one ticket... and here I am already heading to the courthouse in "Po-dunk", NC.
> I Pulled out of the hardware store onto the 25 MPH little road, decided on which route I would take into town, when the blue lights fired through my rear window.
> 
> "Noticed you didn't have your seat belt on, sir- Here's you're ticket- Have a nice day." 
> 
> $179.00
> 
> ...


Well, there's libertarian arguments for why you shouldn't be able to pump up all the water you want since you'll also lower the water table for properties which you do not own. Apart from that, it's ridiculous you can't use one if you can be hooked up to city water. At least around here in many cases city water also comes from ground water... Much deeper than you'll need for your own well so I don't understand why you'd need to use city water in that case except for control. I know you need a permit here if you want to drill beyond a certain depth or pump up more than a certain amount of water.


Don't eat yourself up over that ticket. The world isn't fair and it will never be. You've got your spot with your off-the grid home. Enjoy it. 

Hope you'll have a nice Christmas there ! Nice and warm hopefully.

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## Wooden Indian

Got down to 23 (Fahrenheit) last night according to my indoor/outdoor weather monitor dealio. I haven't been too impressed with its "Weather Forecast" mode, but the ice on the ground seems to agree with its temperature reading.

23 out and 60 in; not too shabby. Cranked up the big kerosene heater for an hour or so before bed, let it get up to 74, shut it off, and let the little propane heater run on low overnight. While 60 degrees in the house is a little chilly for this Florida boy, under the blanket and a sweatshirt make it quite comfortable. 

The biggest challenge this week has been chasing power. Rainy and overcast nearly everyday so power has been rationed like water in the Sahara. Being my wife and I both work from home offices, that's kind of rough. Looks like sun today, thank God, had to run the genny twice last week to make up the difference and charge laptops and all. Topped off the truck and 21 gallons of gas in containers, so I'm set on good old Arabian Petro. 

Observation: Stock piling fuel while it's affordable is a good idea... but gas containers are really pricey. How much am I really saving? Guess I'll need to do the math on that.

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## RonPaulIsGreat

> Got down to 23 (Fahrenheit) last night according to my indoor/outdoor weather monitor dealio. I haven't been too impressed with its "Weather Forecast" mode, but the ice on the ground seems to agree with its temperature reading.
> 
> 23 out and 60 in; not too shabby. Cranked up the big kerosene heater for an hour or so before bed, let it get up to 74, shut it off, and let the little propane heater run on low overnight. While 60 degrees in the house is a little chilly for this Florida boy, under the blanket and a sweatshirt make it quite comfortable. 
> 
> The biggest challenge this week has been chasing power. Rainy and overcast nearly everyday so power has been rationed like water in the Sahara. Being my wife and I both work from home offices, that's kind of rough. Looks like sun today, thank God, had to run the genny twice last week to make up the difference and charge laptops and all. Topped off the truck and 21 gallons of gas in containers, so I'm set on good old Arabian Petro. 
> 
> Observation: Stock piling fuel while it's affordable is a good idea... but gas containers are really pricey. How much am I really saving? Guess I'll need to do the math on that.


Where are you at, I'm tired of living in town, and can bring some more solar panels. Thanks!

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## Wooden Indian

So, I keep up like a weekly update on my experience here (I'm behind but closer to getting more up to date) on another forum and will start copying those posts over here as well, if y'all want to read em.

I'll copy the last 3 here together and post the more recent ones as I write them up. I try to keep them up brief so there's not a ton of detail yet. Just getting everyone up to speed on how I got here and what I was challenged with when getting here.

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## Wooden Indian

So, as a few on here know, I went Off Grid about 3 months ago. Thought I would share my experiences here in case anyone has been curious about trying it themselves.

Disclaimer: I am not a self-declared extreme woodsman swinging an ax in one hand and my engorged member in the other while flying through the air on some jungle vine.
I'm just a dude. I have a little knowledge here and there about a thing or two. In fact, about the only thing I have less of than "super-woodsman extraordinaire" knowledge is money. So much of this is and was done on a budget.

For several years now I have dreamed about finding a little slice of heaven, pay cash for it, move out in a little quaint cabin, sip morning coffee in a warm bath of sunlight and cool beers in the evenings. What I got was something quite different.

We purchased all I could afford with cash which was 1.5 acres in a small town around southern VA. It was advertised as having a well and septic on site and the photos showed about .25AC cleared with the rest heavily treed. We spoke to the mortgage company that owned it, thought it over, and made the deal- sigh unseen and balls to the wall.

Bought an RV thinking it would allow for us to drive up with the belongings we wanted, have a place to stay, and give us enough cash left over to buy a used mobile home to be delivered once I got the utilities in place. I already had my solar array, bank, controllers, and inverters (and 3 generators of varying size to match the job they may do).

Well, we broke down. Both the 4X4 truck I bought and the RV... not once not twice... 3 times. $3000 in repairs later we arrived to see in person what we bought and if y'all are interested, I'll take it from there next post. This is already getting long and I have work to do.

Let me know if this tickles your fancy and I'll pick it up every time I have a chance, if not... **** you and your fancy modern plumbing.

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## Wooden Indian

Now this trek up here took place on the week of that hurricane that came up the Carolina coast. Remember? It rained, it rained, and it ****ing rained some more. As you probably heard on the news, they were calling it a 500 year storm because of the way it collided with some other system, mixed with a cold front or a warm front, some such nonsense, that ultimately caused historic flooding all long our route.

The farther north I go, the clearer the skies grew, and eventually, on that final day's drive, the clouds rained all their rain, then dissolved away completely. Now, we're talking! Things were rough, but you know what, nothing worth having comes easy. I fought the truck and I won. I fought the RV and I won. I fought the wettest storm to hit that area in 500 years, and I drove the hell through it. Nothing can bring me down. 

My GPS announces it's time to turn off the highway and I marvel at the beautiful landscape. Vast fields and rolling hills, Colonial houses perched proud on their tops.
The fields gave way to some forests and the homes grew farther and fewer between. Then they gave way to what can only be described as shanties nestled in wooded lots, which gave way to a rundown trailer park (which was really nothing more than a handful of rundown trailers sharing a quarter acre lot cleared along the highway), where I was instructed by my GPS to turn left, turn left again, then the destination would be on my right in a thousand feet. I'm $#@!ting my pants. 

I'm pulling through this private street in this trailer park when I come to a fenced off property and I'm forced to just stop. In a 33' Motor Home, U-turns on back streets are pretty much out of the question. So, my wife pulls up next to me in the Suburban and we're looking at the GPS Map, trying to figure out what to do when this lady walks out of a nearby trailer, approaches us and we start talking. I find out that the road that is suppose to lead back to my property has been blocked by someone's trailer home and I would have to take another side road, back through some woods, and quote "Aint no way that RV gettin through there. That where my sista used to stay. I been on dat road". We parked the RV, lock it, and take the 4X4 from there.

5 short minutes later, after a few bends, bumps, and a couple of mammoth pot holes in what once had been a gravel road, I see a familiar sight. The shed- my shed. The pictures online showed this structure, the sole structure left on this property, and it finally at long last it lay right before me. But... something's different.

We park at the dead-end and find Atlantis, the land underwater. 
It was little more than a lake with weeds 5 and 6 feet tall where the field once lay. The shed was partially collapsed and covered in graffiti, and just to add insult to injury- it stank. My God, it stank. Remember that septic that was on the property? It's contents floated in some part back behind the briers and thick jumbles of nondescript weeds. 

Home at last.

Much has changed since then. Half of the waters have receded and and the hole in the septic main has been filled, the septic capped. The shed doors that dangled nearly off their hinges have been replaced and about half of the field has been cleared. We never found the well that was advertised, so I decided to drive one myself, everyone needs running water and "off grid" does not mean savages. 

I bought a well-point, 30' of 2" steel pipe, drive couplings, a deep/shallow well pump, and a sledge hammer. With my sleeves rolled and a fire in my belly, I went to work, but what happened is a different story altogether.

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## Wooden Indian

Hope all had a great Christmas and are looking forward to an even better New Year.
I believe we left off with my search for water... well, my search for well water, a blind paraplegic would have no issue finding plenty of standing water on my off-grid property.

After searching my land high and low, wielding a machete and a Troy Built weed whacker with a brush cutting attachment (review on that bad boy later), and sustaining enough skin lacerations from the briers to slowly bleed out an elephant, I ran down to the County and requested records on where my well should be (they had to pull a permit, right), but I came up empty handed again. 

This was going to be it. My defining moment. I could hardly believe it would come so soon.
I would be required by my family to get them good running water in our new home and I would have to do it without the help of the County or even be able to rely on the previous landowner. I couldn't just call a well digging company, either. Don't forget, I spent nearly every nickle just getting up here and I won't go into debt to stay. This is a cash operation. The Injun vs the World. **** yeah.

I did my research on driving a well and located the best location to begin my quest. A naturally low area on the west side of my field, just outside of the tree line and perhaps 200' or so from our stream. 

Things you need to drive a shallow well:
A well point
Drive Couplings
1 1/4 - 2" steel pipe
Drive Cap
Pump
Tank
Sledgehammer
A giant set of meaty clackers

Alright, so I have two of those things already covered but needed to make a run down to Tractor Supply for the rest. Surely the World Renown Tractor Supply store would be able to provide me with everything besides those aforementioned testes. Well, wrong. Much to my disappointment, the place is a glorified GAP for wanna be woodsman.
They do sell some hardware and a little of this and that, but 2/3 of the store is dedicated to outfitting your sexually confused lumberjack or farmer with the latest set of 200.00 jeans or overalls. Pretty damned heart-breaking with how excited I was to get inside my first TS store when leaving Tampa.

Anyhow, after a few days of driving around and collecting what I needed to do the job, I was ready. I began by digging a 2X2 hole with a shovel perhaps 3 feet deep, then a post hole digger another 3 feet or so, lay in my drive point and proceed to tap it in. Remember to NOT lay all you have into each mighty blow. You don't want to be frickin' Thor out there. Hit it too hard and risk knocking your threads out in a coupling. Do that and you'll suck air into the line and decrease water pressure. No Buenos. 

So, I whacked away at the pipe, 5' at a time, until I reached 25 feet. It was 2 days and a hundred blisters that finally joined together and became a super-blister that covered each palm. This was through my work gloves mind you. My hands hadn't seen that much action since Pete's birthday party back in '08.... BUT it was worth it. Christ on a crutch is worth it. My family needed water and much like our pioneering forefathers, I would bring it to them. Not with a credit line and not with some fancy drilling machine. No call to the County here. No, sir. Just some hard damned work. I attached the pump and cloudy water sprung forth, I pumped and pumped, and more milky water made it's way out in abundance. Once it was fairly cleared, I removed the hand-pump and attached the electrical well pump, and let her rip... and that's when the grinding started. The pump began making a hell of a racket then locked up. A little probing and I discovered that it was getting clogged with sand and small rocks... but how? The well point's screen mesh prevents those things from ever entering the system. I carefully tugged up on the top of my well pipe, not expecting it to move considering it weigh hundreds of pounds and was driven through 25 feet of clay, when it came up. A full 5 foot section of pipe pulled right out of the ground.

The steel pipe had snapped. Not at a coupling, there wasn't a busted thread. The pipe itself was broken clean just below the last joint. Manufactures defect or just the Universe continuing to rain **** on me, I don't know. But I lost hundreds in pipe and parts, 2 days of work, and was still no closer to providing my family with the high quality H2O they so deserved. It was time to get creative and think outside of my Pandora's box. .....Did I mention my stream?

Have to get back to work here but if you're curious as to how I finally got a working water solution here at the homestead hell, let me know.

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## phill4paul

Keep the story coming! It's giving me flashbacks to the "good old days" (which are good mainly because they are behind you).

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## Panasonic KX-T7705

Very cool thread, keep us updated on your progress. Post pictures as well if you're able to!

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## Sandemanian

How are you heating your water?

Have you thought about solar water heating? It's a great option that we've implemented on our homestead. Even on cloudy days and during the winter we're able to at least pre-heat our water to around 90-95 degrees. We have a propane water heater as a backup on those days, but with the water already warm it barely uses any fuel.

You can build your own solar water heaters really cheap, but I suggest going with evacuated solar tubes. You can get some cheap on Amazon, Aliexpress or Ebay and build the rest of the heater yourself. Shouldn't set you back more than $350 in total if you're handy.

This is a cool project that might give you some ideas:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects.../solarshed.htm

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## luctor-et-emergo

> How are you heating your water?
> 
> Have you thought about solar water heating? It's a great option that we've implemented on our homestead. Even on cloudy days and during the winter we're able to at least pre-heat our water to around 90-95 degrees. We have a propane water heater as a backup on those days, but with the water already warm it barely uses any fuel.
> 
> You can build your own solar water heaters really cheap, but I suggest going with evacuated solar tubes. You can get some cheap on Amazon, Aliexpress or Ebay and build the rest of the heater yourself. Shouldn't set you back more than $350 in total if you're handy.
> 
> This is a cool project that might give you some ideas:
> http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects.../solarshed.htm


Yeah that's definitely a good idea. That will also save you a LOT of $$ over time. It will also make you less dependent on the outside world as you need to buy less gas/oil.

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## Wooden Indian

> How are you heating your water?
> 
> Have you thought about solar water heating? It's a great option that we've implemented on our homestead. Even on cloudy days and during the winter we're able to at least pre-heat our water to around 90-95 degrees. We have a propane water heater as a backup on those days, but with the water already warm it barely uses any fuel.
> 
> You can build your own solar water heaters really cheap, but I suggest going with evacuated solar tubes. You can get some cheap on Amazon, Aliexpress or Ebay and build the rest of the heater yourself. Shouldn't set you back more than $350 in total if you're handy.
> 
> This is a cool project that might give you some ideas:
> http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects.../solarshed.htm



I've done some research into solar water heating and it's in the plans. Right now I'm using a propane on demand water heater but it's only for showers.
When the tiny house construction begins this Spring (knock on wood), that will be a feature I want to include.

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## Wooden Indian

Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy week at the Of Grid Homestead and Ill be typing this in a rush- I'm at my day job.

"Water water everywhere but not a drop to drink" those words echoed through my head as I stare down at my busted steel pipe beaten squarely into 25' of clay and rock.

I stood there quietly, so quiet that my wife surely thought I had either broken my mind with the pipe or a torrent of obscenities was about to be unleashed upon the virgin landscape, when I decided that I could not allow "it" to best me and my mission to find an immediate source of water did not end simply because of my latest misfortune. It wasn't a defeat but a change of direction.

Within minutes I put together a plan of action, kissed my wife goodbye, and made my way into town for supplies.

1 hi pressure sump pump
1 12 volt transfer pump
1 plastic tote
1 35 gallon water container
100' of garden hose
2 faucet bibs
1 10" whole house water filter
1 pack of 3 charcoal fish tank filter
A variety of adapters and a roll of Teflon tape
Supply of Jacuzzi chlorine


Those were the things needed to get water into the RV quickly according to my admittedly hurried and reactionary plans.

I started by drilling out 6 1" holes into the plastic tote and then attached the fish tank filters via self-tapping stainless steel screws. 
Next, I drilled out 2 holes in the water tank and attached to water bibs, 1 out and 1 in.

Lay out an extension cord and my 100' of hose and made my way down to the stream, placed them and retrieved my tote, pump,
and razor knife. Once I lay the tote and pump into the river, it began to fill with water at a quick enough rate, even through the filters, to do the job.
So far- so good. This is progress and things going according to my plan thus far honestly had me a little scared. I mean, nothing had blow up in my face yet
and I'm hours in. Attached the power and hose to the pump, cut out a notch for them in the lid, and closed it up... it began to float away due to the current.
Spotted a few large stones nearby and added them to the tote. That did the trick but now the water was dirty. Removed the stones, washed them, and replaced them
into their new Tupperware housing, then made my way back towards the house (RV), hooked up the hoses to the tank, the tank to the other pump, the pump to the house filter, the filter to a on off control valve, and it to the RV.

A flip of the switch and I have water... all over my floor. I knew something was going to be $#@!ed, did it have to be my new hardwood floors? Found 2 places where the pressure had blown apart old fittings and fixed them, tested each faucet and confirmed my band-aid was a success. Obviously, pumping water from a stream isn't long-term nor ideal in any way, but it'll do and it has done for the last couple of months. The water comes in clear but we chlorinate it regardless, then use the house filter to remove any additional "baddies" as well as the chlorine smell. We don't use it as drinking water but it's fine for dishes and showers and whatever.

Embrace the grid, you say? The grid can kiss my Irish white ass.

One of the places the water poured through a fitting was behind my composting toilet, but I got it dried up fairly quickly once I found the problem. Composting your waste, now that's an adventure! If you'd like to hear about "Poo Mountain" let me know. I'll keep it clean and it's really not as bad as it sounds. I'll never forget when I first pitched the idea to my wife...

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## Sandemanian

Got any pictures?

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## luctor-et-emergo

> One of the places the water poured through a fitting was behind my composting toilet, but I got it dried up fairly quickly once I found the problem. Composting your waste, now that's an adventure! If you'd like to hear about "Poo Mountain" let me know. I'll keep it clean and it's really not as bad as it sounds. I'll never forget when I first pitched the idea to my wife...


Sure, composting is a good way to get rid of organic stuff. Rather no pics on that though.

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## Kade

You're not in Oregon are you... around Burns?

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## Sandemanian

> You're not in Oregon are you... around Burns?


He's not.

From the OP:



> We purchased all I could afford with cash which was 1.5 acres in a small town around southern VA.

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## Wooden Indian

> Got any pictures?


Some and video. Posting from mobile data is rough though. I was thinking about using the free wifi down at a restaurant for that.

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## Sandemanian

> Some and video. Posting from mobile data is rough though. I was thinking about using the free wifi down at a restaurant for that.


Please do! This thread is very interesting.

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## DavesNotHere

Thanks for talking story about your experiences "out" there. I have enjoyed it thoroughly and it reminds me of my times off grid. Keep up the positive attitude and good luck to you and yours!

Is your composting toilet home-made or ?

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## Indy Vidual

"Off the grid" includes no internet, are you using TOR?

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## klamath

> "Off the grid" includes no internet, are you using TOR?


Once again Off the grid means off the power grid. Whatever people have tried to change it to after that is completely subjective. It can mean living naked in the woods with no tools to some and to anyone not doing that to survive to them is NOT living off grid.
The only solid definition is the POWER GRID.

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## presence

> Have to get back to work here but if you're curious as to how I finally  got a working water solution here at the homestead hell, let me know.


I am curious.   I recently developed a spring for an off grid client.

I dug a hole at the spring site by backhoe about 10 feet deep, lined the bottom with landscape fabric and 2" gravel, then dropped 5 concrete rings in it 4" wall 2' inside diameter 2' tall each.  I installed a stainless pitless through the concrete below grade and hung a submersible stainless 110v pump in it, then ran 1" hdpe 100' back to a bladder tank and well switch in the house.  The concrete well has a lid and a 3" pvc overflow.   The pump runs off the site propane generator.

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## presence

> I've done some research into solar water heating and it's in the plans.


look into thermosiphon; you just have to position your tank higher than your panel; that can mean tank in attic near the ridge and panel on the south roof near the gutters.

You can rig up a panel really easily with a grid of half inch copper, a 2x4 frame, some black or dark colored tile, and a sheet of glass.   Just lay the tile on the roof in the 2x4's, copper on top and seal.    As long as its below the tank it will cycle on its own.

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## P3ter_Griffin

Thanks for sharing Wooden.  Sounds like its been a wild ride from the start.  With your humor and determination no doubt you'll tame that bitch in no time.

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## Wooden Indian

Sorry for the lengthy delay between updates but we've been seeing a lot of cold wet weather and staying dry and warm was a priority.
I believe I was going to review our experience with composting and composting toilets, otherwise known as "Humanure"! Catchy, no?

It's not as exciting as it may sound and I could dress it up but I want this to be as real as possible. It's really just disposing of waste. End of story. 

One issue with being off-grid is what to do with your waste. We have a septic on premises but that requires a $#@!-ton of water with each flush and does not equal a minimalist lifestyle. Selling this to my wife and daughter wasn't the easiest thing, but after showing them several videos on it and building one myself for their review, it was agreed upon that we would **** in a bucket.

Things you need:
3-4 Lowes or Home Depot buckets
30' or so of pine 2X4s
1 sheet of 1/2" plywood
2 hinges
1 toilet seat (designer of course)
Basic hand tools

After framing out the box, I covered it in plywood, hinged the top, and cut an oblong hole just larger than the toilet seat itself, installed the seat, sat the bucket in place, and it was complete. Easy breezy like a Sunday afternoon.

There is no smell outside of the initial odor that everyone experiences when dropping deuces and once you cover your deposit with a layer of wood chips or saw dust (your flush), it actually smells like pine. No biggie, right? The bitch is in composting it.

An eagle sours high above the snow capped majestic Poo Mountain as I work my way near the back. A bucket in my hand and determination in my heart, I take a deep breath and ascend... but there's no stink. Why? Because after depositing the bucket into the compost heap (the bucket does smell when dumped), I cover the contents in a thick layer of natural debris like hay and mulch, which keeps the middle warm and the microbes happy. They work their magic over a period of several months (you can see the pile shrink between deposits) and after a couple of years you have safe rich composting soil.

Turding in a bucket isn't going to be for everyone and composting that waste isn't going to be either, but it's doable and after a couple of months, it begins to feel the norm. I located some designs on a better approach to the composting and will probably being construction on it after this Spring rolls around, but Poo Mountain is working just fine for the time and while an incinerating toilet is desirable, the $2000 price tag has that on a back burner.

Filling sewers and septics with waste water just isn't us and this is a cheap and safe environmentally friendly alternative. Since we are not running enough water to flush a traditional toilet, how do we shower? I mean, do we walk outside through snow and ice, a couple of hundred feet to the shed that was converted into a giant bathhouse of sorts? Yes. Yes we do. And it's a nice hot shower utilizing rain, snow, and river water, whatever is handy. 

Things you need:
1 Tarp
2 ....

Well, this is getting long. I can always tell you how we bathe after a nice hot poo some other time if you want. I really need to get back to work, y'all.
Thanks or reading and I promise some pics (not of Mt Poo) soon.

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## Suzanimal

> Sorry for the lengthy delay between updates but we've been seeing a lot of cold wet weather and staying dry and warm was a priority.
> I believe I was going to review our experience with composting and composting toilets, otherwise known as "Humanure"! Catchy, no?
> 
> It's not as exciting as it may sound and I could dress it up but I want this to be as real as possible. It's really just disposing of waste. End of story. 
> 
> One issue with being off-grid is what to do with your waste. We have a septic on premises but that requires a $#@!-ton of water with each flush and does not equal a minimalist lifestyle. Selling this to my wife and daughter wasn't the easiest thing, but after showing them several videos on it and building one myself for their review, it was agreed upon that we would **** in a bucket.
> 
> Things you need:
> 3-4 Lowes or Home Depot buckets
> ...


 
This post is the $#@!!

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Sorry for the lengthy delay between updates but we've been seeing a lot of cold wet weather and staying dry and warm was a priority.
> I believe I was going to review our experience with composting and composting toilets, otherwise known as "Humanure"! Catchy, no?
> 
> It's not as exciting as it may sound and I could dress it up but I want this to be as real as possible. It's really just disposing of waste. End of story. 
> 
> One issue with being off-grid is what to do with your waste. We have a septic on premises but that requires a $#@!-ton of water with each flush and does not equal a minimalist lifestyle. Selling this to my wife and daughter wasn't the easiest thing, but after showing them several videos on it and building one myself for their review, it was agreed upon that we would **** in a bucket.
> 
> Things you need:
> 3-4 Lowes or Home Depot buckets
> ...


Awesome, thanks for the review. I could live with something like this if I'd live off the grid. I'd try to make use of some other materials that would probably make it a bit less '$#@!house' and a bit more 'toilet' like. Also making it that much more expensive. 

Also, if I had some kind of way to capture rain water, I'd dig in a couple 250gal caged tanks and fill those with rainwater that you can use for flushing toilets.

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## youngbuck

> You're not in Oregon are you... around Burns?


 Just how retarded are you?  GTFO

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## RJ Liberty

I have enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for sharing your story here, Wooden Indian.

I have spent the past four years slowly working to get as off the grid as possible. I'm on propane and am working on solar panels (but they are pretty expensive). My water comes from a well across the road. And I have been growing an orchard at the back of my property to be more self-sustaining. Little by little, I am making progress. But it is sllllloowww progress...

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## LittleLightShining

I had horrible experience with what was supposed to be a composting toilet. Much better off to build a solid outhouse with a back door. Composting humanure isn't that hard-- or gross-- if you do it right. I actually do have pics  

I spent a lot of time in an off the grid, then on the grid, tiny cabin with my family of 5. I really enjoyed reading your posts, OP, makes me miss the good old days. There are lots of tradeoffs to the lifestyle. I would do it again in a heartbeat if I could find the right place.

Did I miss the part where you say why you burn kerosene instead of wood?

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## LittleLightShining

> Awesome, thanks for the review. I could live with something like this if I'd live off the grid. I'd try to make use of some other materials that would probably make it a bit less '$#@!house' and a bit more 'toilet' like. Also making it that much more expensive. 
> 
> Also, if I had some kind of way to capture rain water, I'd dig in a couple 250gal caged tanks and fill those with rainwater that you can use for flushing toilets.


My outhouse was pretty sweet, a two seater with a window-- and a blueboard insulation seat in winter  Maintenance (beyond covering daily deposits) was a few hours a couplefew times of year (depending on how many people were using it).

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## Deborah K

My hat's off to ya, Wooden Indian.  Not sure if you're a Adam Kokesh hater, or not, but he's homesteading in AZ. right now and doing a video log of it:










there's more..

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## Wooden Indian

It's been a while but I promised I would tell a little about our shower set up here at the off-grid home site.

If you are one of the many Americans that have taken a weekend trip in an RV, you are all too well aware that the shower facility often leaves much to be desired. The average man’s shoulders are as wide as the shower itself and it would be fair to say that my shoulders and back are a little more full than most. But even my wife and daughter would be unable to do more than sit facing the water, daring to not move their arms more than inches from their sides.

Luckily, that shed on the property, while dirty and experiencing rot near the front facing floor, was in otherwise fine shape after replacing the doors. So, after cleaning and some repair, what I saw was a 10X15 shower room, and driven by my need of clean balls, I sprang into action.

Things you need:
1 large heavy tarp
2 rolls of plastic
1 DC pump
1 staple gun
Drill
50 gallon tank
Hose
Stinky balls
1 Propane tank
And a propane heated Camp Shower.

First I poured a bottle of water on the floor and watched the direction it naturally ran towards and drilled a 3” hole in the floor at that corner to act as a drain, then laid down the large tarp, stapled around the edges, put up the plastic sheathing, stapled as well, hung the camp shower, drilled out a hole in the wall for the propane line, made a shelf on the back side of the shed for the tank to rest on, installed the shower unit on the other side, dragged in the 50 gal tank and placed the DC pump to its side. Then a quick connection of 2 hoses and I was ready to place the 12 volt battery.

The water is pumped from the stream to the main house tank where it is chlorinated and then run through a Whirlpool whole house filter then pumped up to the shower 50 gal tank where it will service approximately 5 showers with the small DC pump powering the Camp Shower installed on the inner wall. The water is hot and the flow adjustable. Perhaps the biggest issue is moving the battery to and from the shed as I take it out to a charger after each use.

It may not be a spa at Trump Tower, but for $300, it sure does beat the hell out of that cramped, low water pressure, closet in the RV. Coming across the yard wet and cold sucks. But that’s only for a few moments and fair trade in my caveman opinion.


House construction begins in 2 weeks and the shower room will be converted into a power room for my batteries, generators, inverters, and all that good stuff.

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## Wooden Indian

Also, here are a few pictures I shot during the last snow.

The first is me walking up from as far as I can drive my truck, 2nd the path leading back to the stream where I gather my water, and the last the stream itself.

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## P3ter_Griffin

Do you even generate, bro? 

This video seems wildly appropriate.





Thanks for the update/motivation!!

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## RJ Liberty

Wooden Indian, every one of your off-grid posts inspires me to get my own family as off the grid and as self-reliant as possible. 

This week, I planted two new fruit tree saplings in my orchard, which I started last year and which has already produced some fruit. By this summer, I will have 20 fruit trees.

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## jbauer

> Wooden Indian, every one of your off-grid posts inspires me to get my own family as off the grid and as self-reliant as possible. 
> 
> This week, I planted two new fruit tree saplings in my orchard, which I started last year and which has already produced some fruit. By this summer, I will have 20 fruit trees.


Get the berries going if you haven't already.  I've got Apples, pears, peaches, nectarines and plumbs growing.  Along with just about every type of berry that grows here.  They seem to give better bang for the buck early on where as the trees will be in the years to come.

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## jbauer

> Do you even generate, bro? 
> 
> This video seems widely appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update/motivation!!


Thats a fantastic idea.  The only thing I'd be worried about would be what happens during flash flooding.  My creek can come up 10' if it rains very hard and fast.  I could transfer the power through a gears or belt system but at some point the cost to build some thing like that out weights the power it would produce.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> *
> It may not be a spa at Trump Tower, but for $300, it sure does beat the hell out of that cramped, low water pressure, closet in the RV. Coming across the yard wet and cold sucks. But that’s only for a few moments and fair trade in my caveman opinion.*


Who gives a $#@!, you made it and it works. It's cold out there so I bet a hot shower really makes you happy. 

Do you have plans drawn up for your home?

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## RJ Liberty

> Get the berries going if you haven't already.  I've got Apples, pears, peaches, nectarines and plumbs growing.  Along with just about every type of berry that grows here.  They seem to give better bang for the buck early on where as the trees will be in the years to come.


Totally. I currently have three berry bushes and a grape vine. More will come in a few weeks. I was surprised to get a small harvest last year, since you're not supposed to get any fruit the first year, but I did. I have one acre, so there's plenty of room for more in the future.

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## Wooden Indian

> Who gives a $#@!, you made it and it works. It's cold out there so I bet a hot shower really makes you happy. 
> 
> Do you have plans drawn up for your home?


Does a sketch on the back of a paper plate count? LOL

Looking at 15×15 with an 8x8 coming off off it. 15' tall and a barn roof. Loft area will be two bedrooms. 

I really really wanted to have some stuff planted now and my chickens and milk goat but I'm worried about juggling too much at once. Might be next season before I get the fruit planted and my goat. Still wanting the chicks sometime soon. God I sure would love a peach tree though.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Does a sketch on the back of a paper plate count? LOL
> 
> Looking at 15×15 with an 8x8 coming off off it. 15' tall and a barn roof. Loft area will be two bedrooms.


Any sort of foundation ? How much insulation ? Windows ? I don't know how much experience you have building stuff but if you want a comfortable house I'd say you'd do better with a plan.

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## Wooden Indian

> Any sort of foundation ? How much insulation ? Windows ? I don't know how much experience you have building stuff but if you want a comfortable house I'd say you'd do better with a plan.


I will try to use Sketchup before I buy the bulk of the materials but while I do have some CAD experience, Sketchup is pretty foreign to me. If all else fails, I'll draft it by hand. Going with a block foundation and getting the structure up off the ground. Leaning towards Rockwool insulation but I admit that I haven't made my mind up quite yet there. Hoping to have the windows come from salvage but that limits options of course. We have a Habitat for Humanity in the next town over and I've been told I may find plenty there.

Getting excited!

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## jbauer

> I will try to use Sketchup before I buy the bulk of the materials but while I do have some CAD experience, Sketchup is pretty foreign to me. If all else fails, I'll draft it by hand. Going with a block foundation and getting the structure up off the ground. Leaning towards Rockwool insulation but I admit that I haven't made my mind up quite yet there. Hoping to have the windows come from salvage but that limits options of course. We have a Habitat for Humanity in the next town over and I've been told I may find plenty there.
> 
> Getting excited!


h4h has lots of stuff.  You wont find anything uniform but I doubt that matters a whole lot.  Doors, windows, sinks.  Everything.  Just figure out which checkout person will negotiate that'll save you some.

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## Freshly Squeezed

This site might be of help to you for your self-build: 

It has tons of resources and a thread with other people's building projects which can give you a lot of ideas and tips. I think they also have free plans for the type of cabin you're looking for and tools to help you design.

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## Freshly Squeezed

Edit: have to make a second post before I can add a link.

Here it is: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.ph...4&action=forum

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## Wooden Indian

Hi, all. Sorry it's been so long since an update, life, work, and my day job keep me hopping, and time to write a decent recap of my shenanigans is pretty hard to find. So, in an attempt to still communicate some of this stuff, I began uploading videos to youtube and let them upload while I work. 

I feel weird posting this here though because it feels "spammy" ...but I hope all can see I'm trying to contribute and not spam. If it's not okay that I post these, I completely understand. 

Beware: I have no camera skills, no editing skills, and no... well... nothing, and the videos are crap.  Have I sold ya yet? LOL

Check me out. "WTF OFF GRID"

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## Wooden Indian

Put a couple of new ones up. Check out our progress as we march towards some personal freedoms. 

Tiny house floor is nearly done. Should have it finished after next weekend if the weather plays half nice. 

Then it's time for zee walls, comrades!

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## Natural Citizen

You should have nailed yer joist hangers.

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## Wooden Indian

> You should have nailed yer joist hangers.


Ya, know, I was back and forth on it a bit and even cut a part of the video where I discussed it some cause the rambling got god awful LOL. 

Here was my thinking, and I pray that I wasn't wrong, according to the plans, the joist hangers were optional and toenailing the joists into place was permitted. 
I went with the hangers as it made the job of dropping the joists into place a much easier operation for a one man wrecking crew lol. So, they're still going to be nailed into place

... Do you think this is something I am going to regret at some point?

Thanks for the help!

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## John F Kennedy III

Thanks for the posts, great read!

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## Carlybee

You could invite some RPF peeps up for an "off grid vacation" in exchange for help with some of that stuff you're trying to get done. Just a thought.

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## John F Kennedy III

I hope to have enough money saved to homestead in a few years. Maybe even go full blown rewilder, which is much cheaper, but far more extreme.

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## John F Kennedy III

Bump

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## AZJoe



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## shakey1

or this...

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## Wooden Indian

Hi. It's been awhile. Quit posting here due to the... not so liberty feel on the main forums and personal insults, but I'm over it now... mostly. Trolls gonna troll, I guess.

Things on the homestead have been both slow going and fast and furious, just depends on perspective, I suppose.

Tiny house frame was bought and the subfloor and all that I built was turned into a large deck. 

Drywall and mud mostly done, bathroom built, plumbing in. 

Had a few gennys crap out on me over the last few months, I take care of em but Harbor Freight is always a real gamble. 

Had a lot of snow and ice, but spring is
in the air so raised beds are on the agenda soon.

Hope everyone reading this is well and all the best from me and the family. 

WI

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## klamath

> Hi. It's been awhile. Quit posting here due to the... not so liberty feel on the main forums and personal insults, but I'm over it now... mostly. Trolls gonna troll, I guess.
> 
> Things on the homestead have been both slow going and fast and furious, just depends on perspective, I suppose.
> 
> Tiny house frame was bought and the subfloor and all that I built was turned into a large deck. 
> 
> Drywall and mud mostly done, bathroom built, plumbing in. 
> 
> Had a few gennys crap out on me over the last few months, I take care of em but Harbor Freight is always a real gamble. 
> ...


Good luck with all your endeavors. I am coming up on my 50 year off grid anniversary in June.

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## oyarde

> Hi. It's been awhile. Quit posting here due to the... not so liberty feel on the main forums and personal insults, but I'm over it now... mostly. Trolls gonna troll, I guess.
> 
> Things on the homestead have been both slow going and fast and furious, just depends on perspective, I suppose.
> 
> Tiny house frame was bought and the subfloor and all that I built was turned into a large deck. 
> 
> Drywall and mud mostly done, bathroom built, plumbing in. 
> 
> Had a few gennys crap out on me over the last few months, I take care of em but Harbor Freight is always a real gamble. 
> ...


Hope you are right where you want to be with your projects come spring . Good luck .

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