# Start Here > Guest Forum >  We have to support Israel.

## Trumps supporter

Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  

What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?

Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.

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## pcosmar

> I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


has never been my experience. But then the only thing I know about the Soviet Union is the lies I have been told..

Most Russian folks I have met have been cool.

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## erowe1

> Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
> 
> What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?
> 
> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


I appreciate your sentiment. But why involve the federal government at all? If you feel that you need to fund the defense of Israel, then why not just directly donate your own money to Israel's government so that they can spend it on their defense? Why do you need it to go through Washington first?

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## erowe1

> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


Can you give an example?

It looks like the exact opposite to me. There are a lot of avowed white nationalists who post here and aren't at all shy about their racist views.

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## tod evans

> I appreciate your sentiment. But why involve the federal government at all? If you feel that you need to fund the defense of Israel, then why not just directly donate your own money to Israel's government so that they can spend it on their defense? Why do you need it to go through Washington first?


Because you must be forced to support Israel too!

Where do you think his "we" comes in?

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## erowe1

> Because you must be forced to support Israel too!
> 
> Where do you think his "we" comes in?


I assume you're right. But I still want the OP to come right out and say it.

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## oyarde

[QUOTE=Trumps supporter;6274898]Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
 I think Israel can defend itself . I also do not think Dr Paul did not win because of foreign nations and that the non interventionist foreign policy will be the only successful one . I have never lived in the soviet union but I did apply for a job @ the Moscow embassy once. I have no inter action with the mods here, not even sure who they all are .

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## LibertyEagle

There are all kinds of posters here.  Including some Communists posing as libertarians.

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## juleswin

Could this be a false flag? Just wondering aloud.

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## Kotin

Lol wut

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## JK/SEA

no, WE don't have to support Israel...

where does this notion come from?...

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## dean.engelhardt

> Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
> 
> What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?
> 
> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


There are many small countries in Africa in the same situation that we do not support.  Why does Israel deserve or support?  They do some pretty nasty thing to the Palestinians.

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## dannno

> Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. *Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do* and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
> 
> What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?


Ok, look, I think Europe may end up going to war with radical Islam soon, Muslim immigration is totally destroying Europe and I think we can agree on that. The problem I have with your statement is mostly the part in bold. 

Now, I've been told that the Koran has two books - the first book is more peaceful like the New Testament of the Bible and the second book is more like the Old Testament of the Bible. In the case of Christianity, the more peaceful New Testament actually takes precedent over the Old Testament, and in Islam the more violent second part of the Koran takes precedent over the first part. Of course, I've heard from some Muslims that is not really true, but it does seem to be a valid interpretation based on the beliefs of many Muslims. 

So I am very weary of Islam and I think you could be right that no matter what, *some* Muslims will hate us. However, where I disagree with you is your premise that what we do does not affect individual Muslims and cause them to be even more extreme in their beliefs.

In fact, we literally brainwashed millions of Afghan children starting in the late 70s, please do yourself a favor and read this article:
*
From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-0d48f6355e54/

When you read the above article, consider that is just one egregious thing that we learned, but that type of activity is standard for our foreign policy and just know that we have done a lot more over the decades to purposely radicalize Muslims that isn't reported there. 

Then consider the fact that we have killed millions of Middle Easterners over the last few decades through bombing campaigns and such. They all have family, losing family or having a foreign empire come attack your land is going to cause more radicalization. 

So I agree that there would likely be some Muslims who will always hate us, but I don't agree that the magnitude would be anywhere near the same if we weren't over there messing with them. 





> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


I think you will find that you can discuss race here in an open and honest way if you can defend your positions, but you can't take a position like, "let's move all black people back to Africa" or something like that because that would be anti-liberty. You can't say stuff like, "we should do _____ to all Jewish people" if it violates their individual liberty.  

However, we do discuss IQ disparities among the races and how that relates to income disparity. That doesn't violate anybody's rights, and I would add, facts can't be racist. I would avoid saying that one race is "better" than another on the whole, but you could say that European values that came from Greek/Roman philosophy and the Judeo/Christian work ethic have helped promote free markets and liberty and have helped achieve the greatest increases in standard of living compared to other cultures and civilizations. 

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Mods are politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues.

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## dannno

As far as Israel, I think the entire concept and implementation of Israel was a huge conspiracy. So huge, in fact, that the people who set it up likely helped promote and fund Hitler and the Holocaust. The Holocaust was an excellent excuse to get the US and other countries to come in and protect the new Jewish settlers in Israel. Apparently a lot of the evidence for the Holocaust comes from Russian documents after they came in and defeated Germany, they were the first ones to get to the camps. Perhaps there was some exaggerations to make their enemy look bad which is very common - and I'm not saying Hitler was a good guy they made out to look bad, more like a really bad guy who they made out to look like evil incarnate (and, well, maybe he was that too). 

But the point is, why did the US turn away Jews during WWII? I would have allowed them to immigrate here to the US. The population of Israel today is 8 million people. Why not let them immigrate here if they want? I think that would be better than causing all these messes in the Middle East, then taking in millions of Muslim refugees into the US and Europe just to protect Israel.

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## Trumps supporter

> has never been my experience. But then the only thing I know about the Soviet Union is the lies I have been told..
> 
> Most Russian folks I have met have been cool.


Of course. But its my belief that the Soviet government never represented the people. That is why it fell apart. Soviet communism was a revolution of a minority. 




> I appreciate your sentiment. But why involve the federal government at all? If you feel that you need to fund the defense of Israel, then why not just directly donate your own money to Israel's government so that they can spend it on their defense? Why do you need it to go through Washington first?


I think that is ideal. It would be nice if people donated individually to Israel and didn't involve the government and we could stick to an isolationist foreign policy. In fact I used to have this very viewpoint. But two things. I talked to a high ranking neoconservative who lives in Washington D.C. who shaped government policy and he explained me the geopolitics of the situation that if we don't have Israels back and threaten anyone who wants to attack Israel and stopped having our government support them  militarily and left Israel alone that Israel will immediately be invaded by other countries in the region. It sounded really smart and made a lot of sense because it was so well thought out. 

The second thing is that Islamic jihadists are basically at war with everyone and even isolationist countries that don't really support Israel such as Japan. The idea that Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't bomb them is a farce IMO. 




> Can you give an example?
> 
> It looks like the exact opposite to me. There are a lot of avowed white nationalists who post here and aren't at all shy about their racist views.


Yes, me. I used to have an account here and was banned for six months because I said some politically incorrect by criticizing immigration. Everyone called me a racist and banned me. I do notice that you are now letting white nationalists post which must have been a change of policy on your end. 




> Because you must be forced to support Israel too!
> 
> Where do you think his "we" comes in?


What do you think will happen if America doesn't support Israel? America doesn't agree with you. 




> I think Israel can defend itself.


Its a risk. The foreign policy we have now is working as our support has deterred a major attack or invasion of Israel. 




> I also do not think Dr Paul did not win because of foreign nations and that the non interventionist foreign policy will be the only successful one.


I am still a non-interventionist with the exception of Israel. I went door to door for Ron Paul in 2008 and the biggest obstacle to getting people to support him was the Israel issue. Its also why he was relentlessly attacked by Sean Hannity, the media and the other neocons and portrayed as a loon. He did fairly well with having a very unpopular opinion on such a critical issue. 




> There are all kinds of posters here.  Including some Communists posing as libertarians.


That's good to have everyone post. You must have changed your policy since the last time I was here.




> no, WE don't have to support Israel...
> 
> where does this notion come from?...


Two reasons. 

What I am about to say might not be popular, but part of the reason I changed my opinion on the Israel issue is because I want to win elections. I realized that conservatives will NEVER win high offices and be a popular party not supporting Israel. Donald Trump is evidence of this. A lot of his positions are similar to Ron Pauls except Trump supports Israel and Ron Paul didn't. This is the reason Trump won the primary. I do believe if Dr. Paul changed his position on Israel he would be POTUS. He is a man of the people and most people agree with his conservative positions but didn't support Dr. Paul because of the Israel position. 

Do you believe Israel can defend itself? 

Btw you are free to do whatever you want, but I just don't think its right. The majority disagree with you. 




> Ok, look, I think Europe may end up going to war with radical Islam soon, Muslim immigration is totally destroying Europe and I think we can agree on that.


Yes, definitely. 




> The problem I have with your statement is mostly the part in bold. 
> 
> Now, I've been told that the Koran has two books - the first book is more peaceful like the New Testament of the Bible and the second book is more like the Old Testament of the Bible. In the case of Christianity, the more peaceful New Testament actually takes precedent over the Old Testament, and in Islam the more violent second part of the Koran takes precedent over the first part. Of course, I've heard from some Muslims that is not really true, but it does seem to be a valid interpretation based on the beliefs of many Muslims. 
> 
> So I am very weary of Islam and I think you could be right that no matter what, *some* Muslims will hate us. However, where I disagree with you is your premise that what we do does not affect individual Muslims and cause them to be even more extreme in their beliefs.


I don't disagree with you that we should stay out of the middle east with the exception of protecting Israel. Iraq was a mistake. 

I will do some research. Are there any countries where we didn't supply textbooks and still hate the U.S.?




> In fact, we literally brainwashed millions of Afghan children starting in the late 70s, please do yourself a favor and read this article:
> *
> From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad*
> [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/03/23/from-us-the-abcs-of-jihad/d079075a-3ed3-4030-9a96-0d48f6355e54/[/url


Good article. I didnt know about this. It changed my view a little bit. I guess time will tell what will happen. 




> When you read the above article, consider that is just one egregious thing that we learned, but that type of activity is standard for our foreign policy and just know that we have done a lot more over the decades to purposely radicalize Muslims that isn't reported there. 
> 
> Then consider the fact that we have killed millions of Middle Easterners over the last few decades through bombing campaigns and such. They all have family, losing family or having a foreign empire come attack your land is going to cause more radicalization. 
> 
> So I agree that there would likely be some Muslims who will always hate us, but I don't agree that the magnitude would be anywhere near the same if we weren't over there messing with them.


I guess I can agree with that. But two things. Muslims have between fighting among themselves and doing violent acts to each other since the beginning (shia vs sunni). I mean they behead and kill other muslims which I doubt was taught to them in the textbooks. Also, Japan has a largely isolationist foreign policy and Muslims still have beheaded Japanese and declared war on Japan and countries that have done nothing to them. Consider Islam was spread by conquering people who did not offend Muslims. What did the Muslims have to do in Spain or Northern Africa? 




> I think you will find that you can discuss race here in an open and honest way if you can defend your positions, but you can't take a position like, "let's move all black people back to Africa" or something like that because that would be anti-liberty. You can't say stuff like, "we should do _____ to all Jewish people" if it violates their individual liberty.


I see a lot of lies about white nationalism on pretty much every place I go. Nobody wants to forcefully send blacks back to Africa or other races to their homelands. I agree that is anti-liberty and unfair. Any movement should be voluntary. IN fact the British Nationalist Party was a white nationalist party and they wanted voluntary repriatration of people to their homelands by paying them. Its just fearmongering by WN enemies to say they are like Hitler and want to kill everybody who isn't white. 

I don't agree with multiculturalism though. It shouldn't be a government policy IMO. 




> However, we do discuss IQ disparities among the races and how that relates to income disparity. That doesn't violate anybody's rights, and I would add, facts can't be racist. I would avoid saying that one race is "better" than another on the whole,


While some white nationalists believe in racial superiority a lot don't or are unsure. In fact do you know that Adolf Hitler never said his race was superior to another race? That is a leftist mega lie. 




> but you could say that European values that came from Greek/Roman philosophy and the Judeo/Christian work ethic have helped promote free markets and liberty and have helped achieve the greatest increases in standard of living compared to other cultures and civilizations.


Yes.




> I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Mods are politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues.


From personal experience.




> 1.	As far as Israel, I think the entire concept and implementation of Israel was a huge conspiracy.


Another thing we can agree with is that establishing Israel in the Middle East was likely a huge mistake. They should have been settled elsewhere in Africa or something. 




> So huge, in fact, that the people who set it up likely helped promote and fund Hitler and the Holocaust. The Holocaust was an excellent excuse to get the US and other countries to come in and protect the new Jewish settlers in Israel. Apparently a lot of the evidence for the Holocaust comes from Russian documents after they came in and defeated Germany, they were the first ones to get to the camps. Perhaps there was some exaggerations to make their enemy look bad which is very common - and I'm not saying Hitler was a good guy they made out to look bad, more like a really bad guy who they made out to look like evil incarnate (and, well, maybe he was that too).


Yeah. 




> But the point is, why did the US turn away Jews during WWII? I would have allowed them to immigrate here to the US. The population of Israel today is 8 million people. Why not let them immigrate here if they want? I think that would be better than causing all these messes in the Middle East, then taking in millions of Muslim refugees into the US and Europe just to protect Israel.


It probably has to do with religion. The Zionists have always wanted the Holy land. IMO its too late now. The time for that discussion was at the creation of Israel. I do agree with you that putting the Jews in the middle east was a disaster and a mistake but there is nothing we can do about it now. Past is past.  




> There are many small countries in Africa in the same situation that we do not support.


But they are not in the middle east and are mostly insignificant. 




> Why does Israel deserve or support?  They do some pretty nasty thing to the Palestinians.


That is true but Jews as a whole are reasonable people and they are not bad. It just comes down to reality. If America does not support them militarily they will likely be finished. I don't think the Jews deserve to be left alone to fend for themselves. I mean Israel is like a country of 8 million and Muslims are like 1 billion.

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## JK/SEA

meh...as i recall, the majority of the people supported the Vietnam War. How did that work out for you?...

To say Ron Paul doesn't support Israel is a half truth. Ron doesn't support sending billions and billions of American tax dollars to a country that is and has always been a big liability on our foreign policy. Ron believes that Israel can take care of itself from the boogeymen of the world, which also applies to every other country. Ron is consistant on this, and because you say the 'majority' don't agree with Ron on this issue is not Ron's fault, it's the extremly ignorant American voter that is. 

The truth will set you free....eventually.

Never forget Vietnam, and the reasons the war ended.

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## Working Poor

> A lot of his positions are similar to Ron Pauls except Trump supports Israel and Ron Paul didn't.


I don't think so. Ron was not for building a wall on our border, he is against the war on drugs, I don't think he wanted to deport a bunch of illegal immigrants, and he was against wars of aggression. There are many differences between Ron Paul and Trump but the main difference I see is that Ron is not an authoritarian

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## Seraphim

> Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. *Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help.* Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
> 
> What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?
> 
> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


I bolded something very untrue of your post.

Have you ever heard of the Sampson Option?

Israel has a nuclear arsenal that is only bettered by the USA. The Israelis have a defensive mechanism that could keep the entire world at bay if every nation on Earth turned against it. It would just blow the whole damn world up while yelling STALE MATE BITCHES.

Israel doesn't need a damn thing from the USA. But it will gladly continue using the US military as it's favorite working donkey so long as people like you spout that nonsense and elect officials who act on such nonsense.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
> 
> What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?
> 
> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


"Israel" isn't even a real country. It's Palestine renamed under Zionist occupation.

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## JK/SEA

where did the Ron Paul supporter for Trump go?....

meh...another Wonkette bites the dust.

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## Trumps supporter

> meh...as i recall, the majority of the people supported the Vietnam War. How did that work out for you?...


I don't think that is a good example because the Vietnam war was lost mostly do to really bad leadership (generals and politicians). If we had dedicated politicians and smarter generals we would have undoubtedly won that war. 





> To say Ron Paul doesn't support Israel is a half truth. Ron doesn't support sending billions and billions of American tax dollars to a country that is and has always been a big liability on our foreign policy.


Supporting Israel = money. 




> Ron believes that Israel can take care of itself from the boogeymen of the world, which also applies to every other country.


Where is his evidence for this?

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## trumps supporter

> I bolded something very untrue of your post.
> 
> Have you ever heard of the Sampson Option?


No. I just googled it and it seems interesting, but I have largely heard the argument that Israel has nukes. 




> Israel has a nuclear arsenal that is only bettered by the USA. The Israelis have a defensive mechanism that could keep the entire world at bay if every nation on Earth turned against it. It would just blow the whole damn world up while yelling STALE MATE BITCHES.


Do you think our support of Israel helps them though? 




> Israel doesn't need a damn thing from the USA. But it will gladly continue using the US military as it's favorite working donkey so long as people like you spout that nonsense and elect officials who act on such nonsense.


What is nonsense? The majority of people agree with me. 

Secondly, one reason I came to believe that I was wrong about Israel is because of Thomas Jefferson. I cant find the exact quote but he basically said that you have to respect public opinion because its usually right or in the very least valid and that if you have the minority opinion you should think long and hard about it.

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## JK/SEA

lol

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## tod evans

> No. I just googled it and it seems interesting, but I have largely heard the argument that Israel has nukes. 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think our support of Israel helps them though? 
> 
> 
> 
> What is nonsense? The majority of people agree with me. 
> ...


Ummmmm........

*NO!*

If you find yourself following the majority simply because they're the majority that makes you a sheep or a yes-man...

I've found that looking at how the masses behave is a good way to see how people are manipulated..

If a person swears off the Tee-Vee for just 6 months they'll have a new outlook on life, politics and other people..

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## Intoxiklown

> No. I just googled it and it seems interesting, but I have largely heard the argument that Israel has nukes. 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think our support of Israel helps them though? 
> 
> 
> 
> What is nonsense? The majority of people agree with me. 
> ...


You're arguing public opinion, but not understanding the fact that said public is so INCREDIBLY misinformed of factual events it is beyond comprehension. Israel has done things that if any other nation in the world did, you're talking full scale military action. You know...war. Israel is a voting "hot topic" for politics, because it secures a large voter demographic based on their religious beliefs. And if you don't think that is dangerous, then you're right......someone needs to think long and hard.

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## trumps supporter

> You're arguing public opinion,


Yes. 

[qute]
 but not understanding the fact that said public is so INCREDIBLY misinformed of factual events it is beyond comprehension.[/quote]

Like on what?

Actually, Ive come to the conclusion that people would still support Israel even if facts came out about them being an "evil Zionist state" that oppresses and segregates the palestineans. I do believe that even if the Christians turned atheist they'd still support Israel out of reason. For people who argue that we shouldn't support Israel because the Israeli government mistreats the palisteaneans I think that is wrong because you cant say ALL jewish people are evil and support that. 




> Israel has done things that if any other nation in the world did, you're talking full scale military action. You know...war. Israel is a voting "hot topic" for politics, because it secures a large voter demographic based on their religious beliefs. And if you don't think that is dangerous,


What makes you think i'd disagree with you? 




> Ummmmm........
> 
> *NO!*
> 
> If you find yourself following the majority simply because they're the majority that makes you a sheep or a yes-man...


No. I thought about it and I agree through reason, not because its public opinion. 




> I've found that looking at how the masses behave is a good way to see how people are manipulated..


If that is true why are you even involved in politics? That would mean you wouldn't be able to accomplish any of your goals.

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## cindy25

> "Israel" isn't even a real country. It's Palestine renamed under Zionist occupation.


not fair. i am not pro-Israel by any stretch, but they are a country.  they won their independence on their own. something the USA did not even do. but enough is enough with the aid. let them have their country, as they see fit; just stop propping them up.

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## pcosmar

> not fair. i am not pro-Israel by any stretch, but they are a country.  they won their independence on their own. something the USA did not even do. but enough is enough with the aid. let them have their country, as they see fit; just stop propping them up.


"won their independence"
 Are you serious?

The state of Israel was created by the stroke of a pen.

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## Occam's Banana

> We have to support Israel


Mouse, meet pocket. Pocket, mouse ...

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## heavenlyboy34

> not fair. i am not pro-Israel by any stretch, but they are a country.  they won their independence on their own. something the USA did not even do. but enough is enough with the aid. let them have their country, as they see fit; just stop propping them up.


Ridiculous lie. The "Israelis" (properly called "European Jews" or "Ashkenazim") Used a series of UN resolutions (most famously 242) and their policy of expanding settlements and apartheid to steal Palestine. 
tl;dr version:

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## pcosmar

> "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."
> 
> "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."


I don't really worry about it.

Christ will clean that house,, in due time.

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## fr33

I support Israel as much as I support the KKK being in charge of a nation. By that I mean I support neither. I just wish Israel supporters would be consistent with their support of ethno nationalism.

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## unknown

> Ok. I voted for Ron Paul for president in the past and at the time I sincerely believed in the idea of a non-interventionist foreign policy that the founding fathers would approve of and that included not supporting Israel. I really hated "neoconservatism" and their foreign policy. But I realized not supporting Israel is just unrealistic. Israel is a small country and cant defend itself without our help. Muslims mostly hate everyone regardless of what we do and I disagree with Dr. Paul that the Muslims will leave us alone if we didn't have blowback. Ron Paul failed to achieve the presidency because of this wrong idea of his.  
> 
> What are your thoughts? Can someone convince me of a different belief?
> 
> Also why are the people here (moderators) so politically correct when it comes to racism and racial issues? I feel like I am in the Soviet Union or something when I post here.


Whatever you "think" is going on, the only people who have been systematically exterminated and displaced are the Palestinians.

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## EBounding

If Israel is really struggling to fund it's defense, why does it have socialized healthcare and taxpayer funded abortions?

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