# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  Well, they just handed us one hell of a message ...

## HarryBrowneLives

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_907887.html

WASHINGTON - Debt ceiling negotiators think they've hit on a solution to address the debt ceiling impasse and the public's unwillingness to let go of benefits such as Medicare and Social Security that have been earned over a lifetime of work: Create a new Congress.

This "Super Congress," composed of members of both chambers and both parties, *isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, but would be granted extraordinary new* *powers*. Under a plan put forth by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his counterpart Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), legislation to lift the debt ceiling would be accompanied by the creation of a 12-member panel made up of 12 lawmakers -- six from each chamber and six from each party. 

Legislation approved by the Super Congress -- which some on Capitol Hill are calling the "super committee" -- would then be *fast-tracked* through both chambers, where it *couldn't be amended by simple, regular lawmakers,* who'd have the ability only to cast an up or down vote. With the weight of both leaderships behind it, a product originated by the Super Congress would have a strong chance of moving through the little Congress and quickly becoming law. *A Super Congress would be less* *accountable than the system that exists today,* and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits. *Negotiators are currently considering cutting the mortgage deduction and tax credits for retirement savings, for instance, extremely popular policies that would be difficult to slice up using the traditional legislative process.*

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## Maximus

Good Lord.  I thought unilaterally raising the debt through the 14th Amendment was bad news.  This is terrifying.

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## TheViper

I was seriously hoping the headline was a joke.  Sadly, the joke is just our government.


And congress wonders why it has some of the lowest approvals ratings of all time.

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## sailingaway

This is outrageous.  We need to contact our reps and Senators and say under no circumstances should they consider such a thing.  I'm stunned by this.

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## mport1

> This is outrageous.  We need to contact our reps and Senators and say under no circumstances should they consider such a thing.  I'm stunned by this.


Reps don't care what we think.  That is a waste of your time.

This is great.  Hopefully the more absurd stuff they do like this the more people realize how ridiculous the federal government is.  Hopefully secession or abolition of the federal government is in the near future.

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## FriedChicken

I'd like to see this from a source other than huffington before I'd start talking about it

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## Fermli

this is the sort of stuff that could happen when the sh** really hits the fan in this country.

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## TheViper

You know, I was just reading some of the works by John Locke when I decided I'd come see what's going on at the Ron Paul Forums only to see this thread, read about a Super Congress and do all I can not to mentally puke.  *sigh*  I'm going back to my book.

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## speciallyblend

if this is true and passes etc etc, then  The Unites States of America is officially DEAD. The domestic terrorists  are Democrats and Republicans!  This has to be a joke right???? please tell me this is a joke!!!

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

You know sometimes I find that I actually weep for what has happened to my country.... I read this and find I don't have any tears left.

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> if this is true and passes etc etc, then  The Unites States of America is officially DEAD. The domestic terrorists  are Democrats and Republicans!  This has to be a joke right???? please tell me this is a joke!!!


Sadly, I don't think this is a joke at all.

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## CoreyBowen999

wow..

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## Esoteric

This has got to be an "onion" article

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## sailingaway

> Reps don't care what we think.  That is a waste of your time.
> 
> This is great.  Hopefully the more absurd stuff they do like this the more people realize how ridiculous the federal government is.  Hopefully secession or abolition of the federal government is in the near future.


We have shut them down in the past, we can do it again.  And if we can't, we can try that first while we think of something else.

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## speciallyblend

comment i left, see if they post it  

This comment is pending approval and won't be displayed until it is approved.

 if this is true and passes etc etc, then The Unites States of America is officially DEAD killed by democrat and republican leaders. The domestic terrorists are Democrats and Republicans! This has to be a joke right???? please tell me this is a joke!!! 
obama/bush 2012 bendover , I will be supporting Ron Paul 2012 Save America 
every obama supporter should read this below. My wife voted for obama she is now supporting Ron Paul , we must not allow a obama/bush 16 yr dynasty!! Period 
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem. a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” - Senator Barack Obama 2006 Ron Paul 2012

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## mport1

> We have shut them down in the past, we can do it again.  And if we can't, we can try that first while we think of something else.


I hope for the day of a real government shutdown.  The feds do absolutely nothing of value.  They need to just go away.

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## speciallyblend

> You know sometimes I find that I actually weep for what has happened to my country.... I read this and find I don't have any tears left.


solution? get the us military to seize washington dc? and arrest 90% plus of congress and the president and hold free fair elections??!!!  I am in dis-belief.

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## Anti Federalist

Not even suprised, not even enough to mount a forum rant.

My supply of WTF has run smooth the $#@! *out*.

They aren't even trying anymore...

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## Danke

Air Conditioning caused the downfall.   In the old days, congress members went home away from the heat in DC for the summer.

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## Nate-ForLiberty

I'm so angry I want to rip my skin off. I'm nearing the end of my patience.

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## Rothbardian Girl

I'm not even angry... I just feel empty.

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

I think this may turn into the dividing line for the American people. This will decide if we are truly lost as a nation or if the people are willing to actually do something.

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## sailingaway

I feel furious. Empty too, but apathy won't stop this and I'm very much in a 'let it not be said we did nothing' mode, here.

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## TheViper

2011: the sequel to 1984.

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## Bman

Does this idea have any steam?  There are a lot of bad ideas that come up in congress.  Fortunately not all of them see the light of day.  I'm hoping that is the case with this.  If not this is something we need to pay great attention to, to educate masses on making sure anyone who votes for it goes home next election.

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## KingRobbStark

$#@! $#@! $#@! $#@! $#@! $#@!!! $#@! you!!! Ffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccc  ccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk  kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. $#@!! $#@!!

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## civusamericanus

Is this real... I can't find anything to back up this article. This better not be real.

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## sailingaway

> Does this idea have any steam?  There are a lot of bad ideas that come up in congress.  Fortunately not all of them see the light of day.  I'm hoping that is the case with this.  If not this is something we need to pay great attention to, to educate masses on making sure anyone who votes for it goes home next election.


They are on their pseudo 'emergency mode' the same kind they churned up when they went into Iraq.  The same kind they pretended when they shoved TARP down our throats.  If we don't push back HARD they may well do it first then say 'gee we didn't know'... after all, we let them get away with it with treaties....

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## KingRobbStark

If this ridiculousness is pushed, then we in turn need to push back and hard. If this doesn't get the people angry, I don't know what will.

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## hotbrownsauce

If a super committee makes a bill and fast tracks it through congress without allowing amendments *I don't like it but* I don't think I personally will cry foul play. For the reasons I'm listing below.

Bills are made by one congressman, or several congressmen. So just because this time a select few decide to make a bill and these people are called a "super committee" I don't think it is any different than the normal bill making process other than some nuances.
Now normally if the Senate passes one bill similar to but not the same as another bill from Congress the two sides will get together in a pow-wow called a Conference Committee and make a new and final bill based on the two similar bills passed in their respective chambers. This new bill is the same on both sides and they DO NOT allow amendments so if it passes on both sides the President can choose to sign it into law or not.

So my take, so far, is that yes this scenario is different but not illegal. But I do not make a claim to know everything. So please disagree or supplement my comments with more information.

Respectfully,
HBS

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## squarepusher

Don't we want to cut medicare/social security spending?

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## sailingaway

> If a super committee makes a bill and fast tracks it through congress without allowing amendments *I don't like it but* I don't think I personally will cry foul play. For the reasons I'm listing below.
> 
> Bills are made by one congressman, or several congressmen. So just because this time a select few decide to make a bill and these people are called a "super committee" I don't think it is any different than the normal bill making process other than some nuances.
> Now normally if the Senate passes one bill similar to but not the same as another bill from Congress the two sides will get together in a pow-wow called a Conference Committee and make a new and final bill based on the two similar bills passed in their respective chambers. This new bill is the same on both sides and they DO NOT allow amendments so if it passes on both sides the President can choose to sign it into law or not.
> 
> So my take, so far, is that yes this scenario is different but not illegal. But I do not make a claim to know everything. So please disagree or supplement my comments with more information.
> 
> Respectfully,
> HBS


It is intended to stop push back from the public.  In other words, it is war on us, to make sure they can pass stuff against the wishes of the people of the country.  I absolutely intend to push back.  I've already tweeted it out, and will continuously, all weekend.

And my representatives will hear from me, and I will keep my eye on Ron to see if he suggests something on this topic.

And I may think of more I can do, tomorrow.

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## TheViper

> If a super committee makes a bill and fast tracks it through congress without allowing amendments *I don't like it but* I don't think I personally will cry foul play. For the reasons I'm listing below.
> 
> Bills are made by one congressman, or several congressmen. So just because this time a select few decide to make a bill and these people are called a "super committee" I don't think it is any different than the normal bill making process other than some nuances.
> Now normally if the Senate passes one bill similar to but not the same as another bill from Congress the two sides will get together in a pow-wow called a Conference Committee and make a new and final bill based on the two similar bills passed in their respective chambers. This new bill is the same on both sides and they DO NOT allow amendments so if it passes on both sides the President can choose to sign it into law or not.
> 
> So my take, so far, is that yes this scenario is different but not illegal. But I do not make a claim to know everything. So please disagree or supplement my comments with more information.
> 
> Respectfully,
> HBS


Less accountability and greater powers should never be granted a free pass.

And what's to stop this group from remaining after the debt ceiling issue is done?

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## sailingaway

> Don't we want to cut medicare/social security spending?


We don't want to create ways to shut out representing the American people, and we sure don't want to cut stuff people paid in for while still keeping the warfare state and corporate subsidies and paying interest to the federal reserve. It is one thing to say something is unsustainable, it is another to name as priority one for cutting the what people paid in for under force.  

And Ron's priorities are here:  

http://ronpaulrally.org/2011/07/ron-...ouse-in-order/

however, the point isnt at this moment whether we want to cut something it is that they are destroying representativeness of the people through EQUALLY empowered representatives and we can't allow that.  Whether you like what they want to ram through this time or not, next time you won't like it.  

 "A Constitution that can say anything you want might as well be blank." -- Ron Paul

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## KingRobbStark

> Less accountability and greater powers should never be granted a free pass.
> 
> And what's to stop this group from remaining after the debt ceiling issue is done?


This situation is very similar to the creation of the Federal Reserve. The next thing we know, we might have another monster on our hands.

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## CableNewsJunkie

So basically...

There's going to be...

an Outer Party (Loser Congress)

an Inner Party  (Super Congress)

and Big Brother at the top???

Intellectual and financial capital gets ready to flee the country in 3, 2...

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## hotbrownsauce

> It is intended to stop push back from the public.  In other words, it is war on us, to make sure they can pass stuff against the wishes of the people of the country.  I absolutely intend to push back.  I've already tweeted it out, and will continuously, all weekend.
> 
> And my representatives will hear from me, and I will keep my eye on Ron to see if he suggests something on this topic.


I agree that this could be an attempt to get one over on us. But if our elected officials do what I feel best for the country they will push for the budget issues Ron talks about and NOT vote for bad legislation.
Not to deter from the present issue I'd like to make a quick comment. I read that some officials want to raise the debt ceiling long enough for the elections to take place! HAH. My first thoughts were, they want to get reelected and not have heat or pressure put on them about this. Despicable!

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## RonPaulVolunteer

I saw this earlier via email and thought it was just a joke. Is this for real? Do most of you realize that though more are wake, most are fast asleep, and until their cable is disconnected, they'll remain that way? The Feds can right now - do anything they want. NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION. But us!

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## hotbrownsauce

> And what's to stop this group from remaining after the debt ceiling issue is done?





> This situation is very similar to the creation of the Federal Reserve. The next thing we know, we might have another monster on our hands.



We'll have to wait for the details on the "power" of the group.(maybe i missed them?) If they are granted some kind of special power I want to know the details cause then we'd potentially have ourselves a situation.

Only reason I'm posting is to add some level headedness. I all too often see people heading toward the deep end before something happens. This isn't to imply situations don't warrant attention, dissection, or dissent. Perhaps the emphasis on "if"/"what if" in those kinds of situations would be a little more appreciable. I dunno... just my two cents. Carry on.

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## sailingaway

I'm going to send it to drudge.

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## civusamericanus

> We don't want to create ways to shut out representing the American people, and we sure don't want to cut stuff people paid in for while still keeping the warfare state and corporate subsidies and paying interest to the federal reserve. It is one thing to say something is unsustainable, it is another to name as priority one for cutting the what people paid in for under force.  
> 
> And Ron's priorities are here:  
> 
> http://ronpaulrally.org/2011/07/ron-...ouse-in-order/
> 
> however, the point isnt at this moment whether we want to cut something it is that they are destroying representativeness of the people through EQUALLY empowered representatives and we can't allow that.  *Whether you like what they want to ram through this time or not, next time you won't like it.* 
> 
>  "A Constitution that can say anything you want might as well be blank." -- Ron Paul


Your last sentence says it all. 

The article states this is part of Boehner's plan and 


> "Obama has shown himself to be a fan of the commission approach to cutting social programs and entitlements."

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## KingRobbStark

> I saw this earlier via email and thought it was just a joke. Is this for real? Do most of you realize that though more are wake, most are fast asleep, and until their cable is disconnected, they'll remain that way? The Feds can right now - do anything they want. NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION. But us!


And unfortunately the sleep-walkers are the majority of voters.

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice



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## civusamericanus



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## KingRobbStark

> 


I thought my mood wouldn't get any damper, I was wrong.

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## Jace

..

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## Reason

balls

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## aravoth

$#@!ing lunatics

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## Carson

I'm pretty sure they are going to continue doing what ever the new world order tells them to do. They haven't governed under the rules set forth by The United States Constitution in decades. We've lost control of our borders, war department, and congress. 

I suspect the money behind this sort of thing can only come from the global system of central banks.

We are going to have to regain control of our government before we can regain control of our currency. We are going to have to regain control of our currency before we can regain control of our country.

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## redbluepill

> This has got to be an "onion" article


Lol I was thinking exactly the same thing

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## fatjohn

Ladies and gentlemen, presented to you: The glorious rise of fascism!



I guess once this goes through there are only two things that can help the US.

A military coup from those who understand their oath to defend the constitution.

And perhaps a Ron Paul Presidency.

$#@! just got real.

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## Carson

> Ladies and gentlemen, presented to you: The glorious rise of fascism!
> 
> 
> 
> I guess once this goes through there are only two things that can help the US.
> 
> A military coup from those who understand their oath to defend the constitution.
> 
> And perhaps a Ron Paul Presidency.
> ...


Those smart bombs sure aren't what they were cracked up to be.

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## Cowlesy

I want to see some more proof this is on the table before I start sending this around.

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## hazek

> If this ridiculousness is pushed, then we in turn need to push back and hard. If this doesn't get the people angry, I don't know what will.


I'm fairly certain the media propaganda will find a way to spin this to the people so that not only they wont be angry but they'll be happy and welcoming. It's history of 1920-1930 Germany repeating all over again..

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## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

So far the news about this is only on HuffPo and other forums. I am really hoping that there is nothing to this but experience tells me where there is smoke you will eventually find fire.

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## sorianofan

Sounds like hype.  Constitutionally congress is allowed to make their own procedural rules.  Both houses still have to pass any law.

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## Immortal Technique

war growl "grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr  rahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
impeach the whole damn congress, senate and president, hows that for a solution?
A super congress? are you freaking kidding me?

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## sorianofan

> Don't we want to cut medicare/social security spending?


The selfishness of the elderly is amazing.  Many have been collecting SS for 25 years.  And forget all those crying baby boomers nearing retirement.  They have been warned about this for over years There literally isn't any money left.  I say screw them.

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## pacu44

> Sounds like hype.  Constitutionally congress is allowed to make their own procedural rules.  Both houses still have to pass any law.


Well, dont forget, Lord Obama can write an Executive Order to make this so... With an Auto Pen of course

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## Carehn

> Reps don't care what we think.  That is a waste of your time.
> 
> This is great.  Hopefully the more absurd stuff they do like this the more people realize how ridiculous the federal government is.  Hopefully secession or abolition of the federal government is in the near future.


 This is true. I have called and done all kinds of things. the most i could ever get them to do was co sponsor a bill they would later vote no on. The best use of my time has been converting the sheeple to Liberty. Our numbers are growing and one day we will put them all in jail for good.

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## pacu44

> The selfishness of the elderly is amazing.  Many have been collecting SS for 25 years.  And forget all those crying baby boomers nearing retirement.  They have been warned about this for over years There literally isn't any money left.  I say screw them.


They are the greatest generation, thats what they have been told for 60+years.... They are also the ones who didnt correct the mistakes they and their parents allowed... what do you expect?

Edit; Lets fix it so the generations coming wont have to pay for it...

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## sailingaway

> They are the greatest generation, thats what they have been told for 60+years.... They are also the ones who didnt correct the mistakes they and their parents allowed... what do you expect?
> 
> Edit; Lets fix it so the generations coming wont have to pay for it...


They paid in all their lives and paid for the education funding and health care and food stamps etc of much of the younger generations.  Much of those programs should not have been there, but in an age before the internet when people only had mainstream media, and not even Fox until recently, they were the ones most taken.  They didn't plan this.  The question is what do we do now, and Ron's plan of cutting corporatism and milatarism overseas to patch over the entitlements for those who paid in too much to shift gears while letting the young opt out is the only one that works.  We are GOING to be paying other debts, we should pay those who actually were prevented from saving the money in a better fashion.  

How much have you corrected mistakes?  The institutions are designed to prevent being 'corrected', and without the internet, information was scarce.  Intergenerational warfare is not the way to go.

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## sailingaway

> I want to see some more proof this is on the table before I start sending this around.


All I've seen is something by Boehner saying he would come up with his own plan to put forward 'within the framework of cut cap and balance' but he won't say more.  I'm afraid the plan will go through before it can be read much less attacked.  I'm going to start first thing Monday trying to contact my reps and at least say I'm against the plan reported in Huff Po.

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## sailingaway

> The selfishness of the elderly is amazing.  Many have been collecting SS for 25 years.  And forget all those crying baby boomers nearing retirement.  They have been warned about this for over years There literally isn't any money left.  I say screw them.


charming.

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## Nirvikalpa

*isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, but would be granted extraordinary new powers.*

*isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution*

*isn't mentioned anywhere*

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## Jackie Treehorn

This is, in complete honesty, extremely scary.

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## pacu44

> They paid in all their lives and paid for the education funding and health care and food stamps etc of much of the younger generations.  Much of those programs should not have been there, but in an age before the internet when people only had mainstream media, and not even Fox until recently, they were the ones most taken.  They didn't plan this.  The question is what do we do now, and Ron's plan of cutting corporatism and milatarism overseas to patch over the entitlements for those who paid in too much to shift gears while letting the young opt out is the only one that works.  We are GOING to be paying other debts, we should pay those who actually were prevented from saving the money in a better fashion.  
> 
> How much have you corrected mistakes?  The institutions are designed to prevent being 'corrected', and without the internet, information was scarce.  Intergenerational warfare is not the way to go.


Not doing anything but observing that "the greatest generation" were led like sheep, enslaved my generation and generations after us with bills from the Korean war, Vietnam (guns & butter) and elected folks who grew the nanny state to where it is today....

Do not tell me to eat their bills and not point it out... Wont happen... 

Now, I will say, Lets fix it so the next several generations are not tied to IMF or whatever 'bank' they create to save us with debt laden currency used as money so they steal from us...

This ties directly to a future soveriegnty issue looming due to 70 years of spend spend spend...

In short, the greatest generation, has passed on the greatest debt ever known to man...

AND I want MY GENERATION to fix it... So future generations can live as our founding fathers intended...

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## pacu44

> This is, in complete honesty, extremely scary.


This is tyranny.

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## sailingaway

> Not doing anything but observing that "the greatest generation" were led like sheep enslaved, my generation and generations after us with bills from the Korean war, Vietnam (guns & butter) and elected folks who grew the nanny state to where it is today....
> 
> Do not tell me to eat their bills and not point it out... Wont happen... 
> 
> Now, I will say, Lets fix it so the next several generations are not tied to IMF or whatever 'bank' they create to save us with debt laden currency used as money so they steal from us...
> 
> This ties directly to a future soveriegnty issue looming due to 70 years of spend spend spend...
> 
> In short, the greatest generation, has passed on the greatest debt ever known to man...
> ...


'your generation' is incapable without engaging older generations because they are most of the people.  If you wait until they die off, it will be way too late. Plus, then YOU would have been forced to pay in all your life money you could otherwise have saved for your retirement, and will likely feel differently.  But as a practical point, you won't win converts with your attitude.

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## pacelli

If this is true, which I wouldn't be surprised if it is true, it is nothing less than a coup d'etat.

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## asurfaholic

An outrage. Will be contacting my reps...

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## Carson

> The selfishness of the elderly is amazing.  Many have been collecting SS for 25 years.  And forget all those crying baby boomers nearing retirement.  They have been warned about this for over years There literally isn't any money left.  I say screw them.



People didn't have choice with the plan. They were muscled into it. They have been already been screwed a lifetime paying into it. 

Sheeple do have limits!


Have you considered reeling in the war department or any of the governments front organizations?

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## HarryBrowneLives

> If a super committee makes a bill and fast tracks it through congress without allowing amendments *I don't like it but* I don't think I personally will cry foul play. For the reasons I'm listing below.
> 
> Bills are made by one congressman, or several congressmen. So just because this time a select few decide to make a bill and these people are called a "super committee" I don't think it is any different than the normal bill making process other than some nuances.
> Now normally if the Senate passes one bill similar to but not the same as another bill from Congress the two sides will get together in a pow-wow called a Conference Committee and make a new and final bill based on the two similar bills passed in their respective chambers. This new bill is the same on both sides and they DO NOT allow amendments so if it passes on both sides the President can choose to sign it into law or not.
> 
> So my take, so far, is that yes this scenario is different but not illegal. But I do not make a claim to know everything. So please disagree or supplement my comments with more information.
> 
> Respectfully,
> HBS



I have to respectfully disagree HotBrown, via The Constitution, we elect representatives to represent US not the views of some Super Committee. The idea here is that budget ideas will be passed from the committee back to the Congress for an up or down vote ONLY. No amendments. So this limits debate, limits ideas, limits input ... exactly the opposite idea of The Founders. On a related note, if this idea has any traction or reality to it at all and we can't run a campaign with Paul or Liberty candidates against this we might as well stay home.

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## Joseph

They are trying to destroy america! I say Reid, McConnell and Boehner need to be convicted of treason! If this thing does pass then for our 6 Republicans lets put Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Jim Demint, Ron Paul, Justin Amash and Roscoe Bartlett on for the Republican side. In all seriousness though this really is disastrous!!

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## jmdrake

> I want to see some more proof this is on the table before I start sending this around.


Here's the closest I can find to confirmation.  Not exactly what Huffpo says, but not that far off either.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...hMI_story.html
_One twist to the McConnell plan involves creating a new congressional super-committee — yes, another commission — tasked with producing additional debt reduction measures by the end of the year. Unlike, say, the Simpson-Bowles commission, the committee would not have to achieve a supermajority vote, and its proposals would be subject to an up-or-down majority vote in both houses of Congress.

It is essential that this committee have jurisdiction to consider all elements of the budget: discretionary spending, entitlements and tax revenue must all be on the table, as they were for Simpson-Bowles. If so, then, yes, one more commission with the ability to force Congress to confront reality would be better than none. But we see little reason for optimism that this commission would succeed where others have failed. If lawmakers cannot now agree on the kind of balanced debt-reduction package that every previous commission has recognized is necessary, why would such agreement be within reach several months from now? If there is no prospect of the Republican allergy to new taxes easing, or of many Democrats becoming more open to the kind of entitlement reform President Obama has called necessary, it’s not clear how any balanced proposal is going to make it through Congress._ 

When is Mitch McConnel up for re-election?  We need a two word slogan.  *DITCH MITCH!*

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## Joseph

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Sup...7/24/id/404631

It seems it's a legit proposal but I don't think it has any chance of becoming reality.

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## Travlyr

*Common Law Grand Jury*

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## mit26chell

In my opinion, this will be the last straw should anything like this occur.

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## sailingaway

Firedoglake doesn't like it either, here is one of their threads on it: http://my.firedoglake.com/teddysanfr...uper-congress/

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## 1836

Seems like it actually is a proposal but I would imagine that it's nowhere as bad as we think and wouldn't pass anyway.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Is this real... I can't find anything to back up this article. This better not be real.


It sounds like a real proposal from McConnell.




> Sounds like hype.  Constitutionally congress is allowed to make their own procedural rules.  Both houses still have to pass any law.


There are two separate bodies in Congress. Official mergers of the two may not be Constitutional. Isn't the House of Representatives supposed to create the Bills, and then the Senate is the smaller, elite Body that also deliberates and votes on them?

Other issues with this:

- It is an attack on junior members of Congress like Rand Paul and Mike Lee, and the Tea Party in general. They want to take away their input and ability to do anything.

- If a smaller group coming up with a plan is such a good idea, then why was the bipartisan "National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform" (Debt Commission) ignored by everyone, especially by Obama who initiated it in the first place?

- Is it Constitutional (or correct) to write the Democrat/Republican duopoly into law? Are the Democrats and Republicans established somewhere in the Constitution as the official Parties? 

- States Rights: Which States will lose representation by not having any members on this Super-Congress?

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## truthspeaker

Instead of even suggesting a "Super Committee", if Congress wants a faster way to pass bills they should do what we do here in Texas. In Texas state bills must be read *three* times before become law. It is part of our state constitution. Because of that we never see a bill more than 40 pages. Usually bills are about a paragraph long.

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## inibo

> I'd like to see this from a source other than huffington before I'd start talking about it


This one attributes the idea to Mitch McConnell: http://www.examiner.com/finance-exam...h-debt-ceiling

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## civusamericanus

> Originally Posted by hotbrownsauce  
> If a super committee makes a bill and fast tracks it through congress without allowing amendments I don't like it but I don't think I personally will cry foul play. For the reasons I'm listing below.
> 
> Bills are made by one congressman, or several congressmen. So just because this time a select few decide to make a bill and these people are called a "super committee" I don't think it is any different than the normal bill making process other than some nuances.
> Now normally if the Senate passes one bill similar to but not the same as another bill from Congress the two sides will get together in a pow-wow called a Conference Committee and make a new and final bill based on the two similar bills passed in their respective chambers. This new bill is the same on both sides and they DO NOT allow amendments so if it passes on both sides the President can choose to sign it into law or not.
> 
> So my take, so far, is that yes this scenario is different but not illegal. But I do not make a claim to know everything. So please disagree or supplement my comments with more information.
> 
> Respectfully,
> HBS





> I have to respectfully disagree HotBrown, via The Constitution, we elect representatives to represent US not the views of some Super Committee. The idea here is that budget ideas will be passed from the committee back to the Congress for an up or down vote ONLY. No amendments. So this limits debate, limits ideas, limits input ... exactly the opposite idea of The Founders. On a related note, if this idea has any traction or reality to it at all and we can't run a campaign with Paul or Liberty candidates against this we might as well stay home.


 I have to concur with "hotbrownsauce', they are simply creating a larger consensus on a single bill, heck if all your friends were wearing brown shirts, aren't you going to wear one too? The 12 will have more influence to push bills through congress, and independent bills will rarely see the light of day. But from what I've read it doesn't appear to be illegal, just seems sorta of like a fascist mob mentality.

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## sailingaway

> I have to concur with "hotbrownsauce', it simply is creating a larger consensus on a single bill, heck if all your friends were wearing brown shirts, aren't you going to wear one too? The 12 will have more influence to push bills through congress, and independent bills will rarely see the light of day. But from what I've read it doesn't appear to be illegal, just seems sorta of like a fascist mob mentality.


No, it prevents amendments and excludes other representatives.  The 'gang of six' type crap was bad enough because it substantially excluded others, but at least they COULD propose amendments, particularly senators, such as Rand.

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## civusamericanus

> No, it prevents amendments and excludes other representatives.  The 'gang of six' type crap was bad enough because it substantially excluded others, but at least they COULD propose amendments, particularly senators, such as Rand.


I think you may be right, albeit I thought they have other bills that already have these same clauses.

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## PeacePlan

They are just doing what they always have done. Ron Paul is right they should just vote no to raising the debt limit and take away their credit card. Its the only way - stop spending!

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## Anti Federalist

> They are on their pseudo 'emergency mode' the same kind they churned up when they went into Iraq.  The same kind they pretended when they shoved TARP down our throats.  If we don't push back HARD they may well do it first then say 'gee we didn't know'... after all, we let them get away with it with treaties....

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## sailingaway

> I think you may be right, albeit I thought they have other bills that already have these same clauses.


Yeah, the fast track provisions for the trade agreements. How well has that worked?

They've done a lot of awful things, we can't let them justify new bad things based on old bad things they got away with.

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## pacu44

> 'your generation' is incapable without engaging older generations because they are most of the people.  If you wait until they die off, it will be way too late. Plus, then YOU would have been forced to pay in all your life money you could otherwise have saved for your retirement, and will likely feel differently.  But as a practical point, you won't win converts with your attitude.


This debt can easily be wiped out without "help" from the generation that left it... But we have to do it... My

My attitude... well, with respect, my attitude is being mistaken for observation. 

I have a great attitude... as a 40 something, with no children, I could have the attitude of "screw it" and live large... But my heart says this must corrected or the country I read about, and supposed to live in, is just a dream...

I am tired of reading how people did what honorable people should do... But instead of setting the country up for future success, they voted in, thus promoting, a spend spend spend on me attitude... My grandparents generation get more money in SS, many times over, than they ever put in... Throw in Medicare and all the other goodies... I see it first hand... Sorry, I say they may have won a war on a battlefield but they lost the economic war vs the Federal Reserve and themselves for wanting to squeeze every dollar out of the younger generations...

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## sailingaway

> This debt can easily be wiped out without "help" from the generation that left it... But we have to do it... My
> 
> My attitude... well, with respect, my attitude is being mistaken for observation. 
> 
> I have a great attitude... as a 40 something, with no children, I could have the attitude of "screw it" and live large... But my heart says this must corrected or the country I read about, and supposed to live in, is just a dream...
> 
> I am tired of reading how people did what honorable people should do... But instead of setting the country up for future success, they voted in, thus promoting, a spend spend spend on me attitude... My grandparents generation get more money in SS, many times over, than they ever put in... Throw in Medicare and all the other goodies... I see it first hand... Sorry, I say they may have won a war on a battlefield but they lost the economic war vs the Federal Reserve and themselves for wanting to squeeze every dollar out of the younger generations...


Remember that at no time was it sold to them under those colors.  It was billed very differently, and without the internet people pretty much had the information the major newspapers doled out.

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## Deborah K

> I saw this earlier via email and thought it was just a joke. Is this for real? Do most of you realize that though more are wake, most are fast asleep, and until their cable is disconnected, they'll remain that way? The Feds can right now - do anything they want. NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION. But us!


You just made me realize something, with your "until their cable is disconnected" comment......on friday, the cable and internet went out for an entire day and night in our town of 35 thousand due to a road construction crew who severed the underground cable.  A lot people "bundle" their landlines, internet, and cable.  What an easy way to cut people off from knowing about an invasion, catastrophe, etc.  I know that sounds conspiratorial, but I suggest alternate forms of communication.  HAM radio anyone?  We've got one.  Better to be safe than sorry.

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## Joseph

How will they decide who will be chosen to serve on this "super congress"? This sounds like an easy way to make sure people like Ron and Rand Paul are kept completely out of the process.

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## acptulsa

> How will they decide who will be chosen to serve on this "super congress"? This sounds like an easy way to make sure people like Ron and Rand Paul are kept completely out of the process.


This is a way to disenfranchise entire states.  Entire states.  Never mind that the founding fathers designed the House and Senate to balance the populous states against the sparsely populated states.  Now we have found a way to elevate the desires of the corporatist-dominated states over any state that pays attention to who represents it.  Such a deal.

I don't know whether we should lampoon this totalitarian travesty now and avoid the Christmas rush or let them do it and use it to stir the populace into a shooting war.  Oh, on more rational thought, that's an easy one.  We need to blow this notion out of the water immediately or sooner.  And expose the shills for what they are in the process.

P.S.  If they pick House members from the same states as the Senators, this nastiness has the potential to disenfranchise eighty-eight percent of the Several States, and eighty-nine and one half percent of the combined States and Territories.

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## sailingaway

> This is a way to disenfranchise entire states.  Entire states.  Never mind that the founding fathers designed the House and Senate to balance the populous states against the sparsely populated states.  Now we have found a way to elevate the desires of the corporatist-dominated states over any state that pays attention to who represents it.  Such a deal.
> 
> I don't know whether we should lampoon this totalitarian travesty now and avoid the Christmas rush or let them do it and use it to stir the populace into a shooting war.  Oh, on more rational thought, that's an easy one.  We need to blow this notion out of the water immediately or sooner.  And expose the shills for what they are in the process.


Exactly.  And now it is Monday we can reach legislators.  They will try to ram Boehner's plan through when it is worked out by the star chamber.

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## libertygrl

> The selfishness of the elderly is amazing.  Many have been collecting SS for 25 years.  And forget all those crying baby boomers nearing retirement.  They have been warned about this for over years There literally isn't any money left.  I say screw them.


While I am not near retirement age, I do resent your remarks.  If you're doing pretty well for yourself in life, count your blessings. But not all seniors or Baby Boomers are living the high life.

 I have elderly relatives who have worked hard all their lives and paid into the system out of their hard earned money.  Selfishness???  They took care of their children, served their country, some of them had to work two jobs to help their kids through college. My relatives aren't rich by any means and are on fixed incomes. Some have to rely on their SS checks just to get by.   Remember, this is a different time where we have the internet and other sources of information that help us to become more educated on issues.  They didn't know any of the stuff that we know now.  So because they are part of this system,  you just want to throw them into the streets?   Your ignorance and self righteousness is embarrassing.

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## Deborah K

> Exactly.  And now it is Monday we can reach legislators.  They will try to ram Boehner's plan through when it is worked out by the star chamber.


I'll call my critter when his office opens.

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## TruckinMike

> The Politburo (USSR) had both full and candidate (non-voting) members. The actual size of the Politburo varied, but it usually consisted of fourteen full and eight candidate members. Although it had no formal head,


Hhhmmm....

TMike

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## virginian8v

There's a petition to quash the "Super Congress" plan. If you oppose this plan, please sign and share: http://www.change.org/petitions/tell...r-congress-now

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## sorianofan

> Well, dont forget, Lord Obama can write an Executive Order to make this so... With an Auto Pen of course


Obviously fascism has already come with undeclared warfare in Libya and with the Fed bailing out foreign banks and private companies with no congressional authority.  That is fascism.  But, the super congress is just a committee.

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## sorianofan

> charming.


I'm not running to win an election, but that's a fact.  I hear old people have conversations about politics in the front office of my shop and all I ever hear is "gimme gimme gimme, screw everyone else."  At least all of them are against the war.

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## Dark_Horse_Rider

> You just made me realize something, with your "until their cable is disconnected" comment......on friday, the cable and internet went out for an entire day and night in our town of 35 thousand due to a road construction crew who severed the underground cable.  A lot people "bundle" their landlines, internet, and cable.  What an easy way to cut people off from knowing about an invasion, catastrophe, etc.  I know that sounds conspiratorial, but I suggest alternate forms of communication.  HAM radio anyone?  We've got one.  Better to be safe than sorry.


Exactly.

Community is essential.

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## anaconda

There must be many ways to shoot this scam down with laws and parliamentary procedure....I mean...don't they have to _vote_ on something like this?...

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## Brian4Liberty

Bump for Super Congress.

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## Carson

> Bump for Super Congress.



Yes and bump for getting them capes and eye wear.

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