# Liberty Movement > Rand Paul Forum >  Watch KET/CSPAN Debate

## Ethek

http://www.ket.org/live/

http://wwww.cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx

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## Kotin

When does it start?

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## JohnG

I want to know that too. My understanding is that it should be 1 AM British time, I really hope I'm not mistaken  I didn't miss it, did I?

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## TruthisTreason

Starts in 39 minutes.

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## 0zzy

only 15minutes now!

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## muzzled dogg

is it on national cspan?

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## MRoCkEd

> is it on national cspan?


Yes C-SPAN1

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## muzzled dogg

ty

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## JohnG

I don't know what to look forward to most...

Gurley L Martin and his... gurleyisms?
Stephenson preaching?
Rand Paul bashing Grayson over 10-year budgets?
Grayson begging CSPAN for an endorsement?

What do you think? 
/John

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## Matt Collins

I think this will be the most entertaining couple of hours on C-SPAN *EVER!* 

I also think that this will be the most watched couple of hours on C-SPAN too!

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## MRoCkEd

The debate is 2 hours?

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## TruthisTreason

> The debate is 2 hours?


One hour!

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## MRoCkEd

Starting now!

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## 0zzy

and it begins! CSPAN, not KET link isnt working.

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## Matt Collins

Gurley is inbetween Trey and Rand again.

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## GoatsGoneWild

It kind of sucks that Martin and Stephenson have to be there.  This is going to be a more substantive debate than what we've seen so far.

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## Matt Collins

Looks like the mod is giving Rand all of the attention and ignoring Gurley and the other guy.

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## Matt Collins

Wow Trey is a jackass

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## GoatsGoneWild

Wow, Trey is such a slimeball.

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## jabf2006

Trey made Paul look bad there...

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## muzzled dogg

this fat dude is on to something

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## BamaFanNKy

Trey got the first round. He came to fight.

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## StateofTrance

Trey is a god damn terrorist. Deport that $#@!er.

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## Matt Collins

I think Trey is trying to bait Rand and will continue to do so.

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## JohnG

Trey is better tonight. Slimy, and he appears slimy, which is good (people see through him). But better.

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## Matt Collins

> Trey is a god damn terrorist. Deport that $#@!er.


Now now.... lets be a bit less caustic. Lots of people are reading this forum, including KY media and voters.

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## torchbearer

is that Theo?

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## TheConstitutionLives

From an unbiased perspective Trey is looking/acting desperate.

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## Matt Collins

Gurley worked for Goldwater 6 weeks!

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## muzzled dogg

grandpa has his $#@! together

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## Fozz

Gurley Martin mentions Robert Taft!!

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## Matt Collins

kytonight@ket.org

Send an e-mail

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## GoatsGoneWild

Trey is hoping that Paul blows up in a rant against these attacks.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

Well hell, Trey won that first round.  He cherry-picked some obscure local program that probably nine out of ten Kentucky residents never even heard of and got on Rand Paul for not knowing everything about it.

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## radiofriendly

We are blessed that Trey is so smarmy....
Hold on...Gurley is speaking.


I hope we can get Gurley at the victory party!

Anyway, Trey would do well to stick to the 'stool' thing - but
I don't think he is very clever.

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## torchbearer

> Well hell, Trey won that first round.  He cherry-picked some obscure local program that probably nine out of ten Kentucky residents never even heard of and got on Rand Paul for not knowing everything about it.


an organization that recieves federal money is not local. it is bound by the whims of DC.

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## Matt Collins

800-494-7605 is the number!

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## GoatsGoneWild

Call in and ask Trey about Van Jones!

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## Matt Collins

> an organization that recieves federal money is not local. it is bound by the whims of DC.


That is what I was thinking but Rand didn't get a followup.

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## BamaFanNKy

Gurley for the birther points!

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## Fozz

lol Gurley is a birther.

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## Kotin

I love gurley martin.. He's badass.

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## yatez112

My opinion, but only Kentuckians should send emails and call...if Bill Goodman mentions anything about it, Grayson might use it against him...plus, all the episodes i've seen before are only for kentuckian residents...i'm in class right now, but just thought I'd put that out there...

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## torchbearer

> I love gurley martin.. He's badass.


he doesn't think Rand is like a Robert Taft, i think he is bit off on that .

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## GoatsGoneWild

I agree with above.  I would only call/e-mail if you are from Kentucky.

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## muzzled dogg

trey is owning him

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## jabf2006

this is not going well...

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## BamaFanNKy

Round 2: Rand wins with James Dobson come back.

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## cmasslibertarian

Hahaha I love Gurley

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## Fozz

Grayson is doing well here...

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## muzzled dogg

Gurley is the man

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## JohnG

NOOOO  Not complicated, NO RAND. It may be, but don't talk like that. Somebody stop him!

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## Mr. Smith

I love these old guys. Trey has no idea how to respond to 'em.

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## cmasslibertarian

Stephenson is a theocrat of the worst kind

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## torchbearer

wtf?

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## GoatsGoneWild

This whole thing is a trainwreck.

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## Matt Collins

Gurley and the other guy are giving a bit of a temperament / comic relief between Rand and Trey which is good.

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## JohnG

I think Rand opened strong actually, but now Grayson took him down on Iran.

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## JCF

Gurely...

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## lukeman

Trey is such a panderer. This is sickening.

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## hellsingfan

Rand is actually not answering some of the questions... The caller question was actually not answered by Rand... he's talking general abstractions rather than specific issues... Seriously Trey is much better in the debate.... I hope no one watches this debate because it would hurt Rand if this continues.

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## Fozz

Ouch Trey is really slamming Rand.

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## Kotin

I can hear gurley mumbling...

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## BamaFanNKy

Good news. No one who actually would switch their vote or independent is watching this after Stephenson's speeches.

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## Matt Collins

I think Rand is playing rope-a-dope with Trey

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## Tinnuhana

How's it going? I can only get in to the office from my class to listen to sporadically.
Play by play?

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## KramerDSP

It's Trey Greyson, Birther Ron Paul, The son of Ron Paul, and Theocrat Ron Paul. This is bizarre.

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## GoatsGoneWild

Hopefully some of our Kentucky users are planning on calling in...

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## JohnG

Rand needs to turn this around now. Call and ask about Grayson's environmentalism. Or why is he taking money from AIG lobbyists. Someone stop this

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## Matt Collins

*Someone from KY please call in and ask Trey what he thinks of global warming!

* kytonight@ket.org
800-494-7605

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## Fozz

Stephenson gave the best answer for the death penalty.

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## GoatsGoneWild

> *Someone from KY please call in and ask Trey what he thinks of global warming!
> 
> * kytonight@ket.org
> 800-494-7605


Tie Van Jones into this!

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## torchbearer

Trey bombing the china question. talking about something he hasn't thought about.
you can tell.

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## hellsingfan

Someone call.

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## muzzled dogg

chinese wiggers?

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## yatez112

sent in about global warming...in class....hope it gets read...

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## BamaFanNKy

Actually Grayson is now coming off as a total $#@!. He's sinking his career right before our eyes.

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## torchbearer

obsfucate. love it.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

Who are these Chinese wiggers?

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## RonPaulFanInGA

Gurley Martin just got owned.

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## torchbearer

> chinese wiggers?


i have no idea.

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## Fozz

lmao gurley

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## Fozz

> Who are these Chinese wiggers?


Uighurs

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## Matt Collins

Rand just kicked his ass!

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## Fozz

Wow, Rand has slammed him on abortion.

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## JohnG

Sarah palin! Bring up sarah palin!

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## torchbearer

> Uighurs


similar to mongols?

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## radiofriendly

It's not worth getting upset.

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## Fozz

Rand has cornered Trey on Social Security.

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## muzzled dogg

lol babdists

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## JohnG

Postponed? Postponed? WHY? He is talking about postponing the day of reckoning! Grayson just got owned

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## Fozz

> similar to mongols?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people

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## yatez112

sent in another about balanced budgets...i cant listen to it right now, so cant know of what they are talking about...

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## Son of Detroit

Let Gurley speak!

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## jabf2006

Rand is nailing this senate leader questions

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## torchbearer

rand is finishing strong.

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## Fozz

lol Stephenson is spouting Democrat talking points.

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## torchbearer

> lol Stephenson is spouting Democrat talking points.


that isn't the first time. he wants to increase federal spending on education.
now he is talking about the feds controlling ag.

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## winston_blade

That was an awkward moment with Stephenson.

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## Fozz

Ouch that was a nasty attack by Gurley.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

John Stephenson wants Olympia Snowe as majority leader.  Finally, a Republican I'd rather have _less_ as the Senate's GOP leader than McConnell.

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## economics102

> That was an awkward moment *for* Stephenson.


Fixed that for you.

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## winston_blade

> Fixed that for you.


true

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## Mike120170

Trey's answer to almost every other question began with "I think the federal gov't does have a role........"

I hope those watching who want smaller gov't pick up on that.

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## muzzled dogg

rand did better than the baptist

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## torchbearer

if rand wasn't in this race i'd vote for gurley.

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## hellsingfan

I'm not impressed with the debate. I hope no one sees it

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## Fozz

Treyson won that debate, IMO.

If Rand was up by +8 before this debate, it is probably +3-4 now, if that. Dangerously close.

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## JohnG

Rand's closing statement sucked. He shouldn't have picked up on Grayson there. And not a word about Palin.

C+ to Paul.

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## sailingaway

> if rand wasn't in this race i'd vote for gurley.


Me too.

I also agree it was not Rand's best debate.

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## trey4sports

decent, I like Gurley!

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## Fozz

> Rand's closing statement sucked. He shouldn't have picked up on Grayson there. And not a word about Palin.
> 
> C+ to Paul.


There was hardly any time for the closing statement, so maybe it shouldn't get too much weight.

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## hellsingfan

> Treyson won that debate, IMO.
> 
> If Rand was up by +8 before this debate, it is probably +3-4 now, if that. Dangerously close.


No I believe the affect will be minimal. Trey is going to lose

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## RonPaulFanInGA

> if rand wasn't in this race i'd vote for gurley.


Really?  An 86 year old birther who'd probably keel over a month into office and allow the democratic Governor to replace him in the Senate?




> If Rand was up by +8 before this debate, it is probably +3-4 now, if that. Dangerously close.


You drastically overestimate how many voters pay attention.

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## Mr. Smith

The host was quite rude to the older candidates.  Shame.

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## sailingaway

> Really?  An 86 year old birther who'll probably keel over a month into office and allow the democratic Governor to replace him in the Senate?


Oh, well, the birther part is an issue, but the age, no, not really.

You'd rather have Trey than a Democrat?

What's the difference?

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## low preference guy

there was too much negativity to be an enjoyable debate. not a game changer. Rand needs to ensure all his supporters vote and he'll win.

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## Fozz

> No I believe the affect will be minimal. Trey is going to lose


There are a lot of undecided voters, and it is clear that Treyson came out stronger, especially on the Iran and Gitmo questions.

We all want Trey to lose, but when 15% of voters are undecided, and then most of them go to Trey, then this will be VERY close.

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## torchbearer

> Really?  An 86 year old birther who'd probably keel over a month into office and allow the democratic Governor to replace him in the Senate?


yup, because out of the remaining candidates we have an establishment dick sucker and a theocrat.

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## trey4sports

Gurley had the closest talking points to Ron Paul

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## JohnG

No, but he should have quoted Reagan or Jefferson you can do that in 30 minutes  

Not mess with Grayson over who is more kentuckian

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## sailingaway

> Gurley had the closest talking points to Ron Paul


I know.  I wouldn't mind him in the Senate if Rand weren't going.

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## low preference guy

I think Gurley's positions are better than Ron Paul's. But Gurley is unelectable of course.

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## GoatsGoneWild

I think in the end, Rand lost this.

Even if not many people watched this live, I hope the local media doesn't spin this too much in Trey's favor.

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## sailingaway

> I think Gurley's positions are better than Ron Paul's. But Gurley is unelectable of course.


Which position is better than Ron Paul's?  CSPAN stopped and started on me -- I may have missed it.

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## Chieftain1776

> Rand's closing statement sucked. He shouldn't have picked up on Grayson there. And not a word about Palin.
> 
> C+ to Paul.


Yeah I agree. I mean he just responded to Treyson's attack. He should have pointed to one of the themes of his campaign: "Unlike others in this campaign I have worked in the private sector as a doctor my whole life. I know what it's like to make payroll, pay taxes, and otherwise deal with the burden government places on other Kentuckians." 

On other things he could have pointed out his positions on a moratorium on travel visas, supporting vouchers in DC, tighter border security etc.. 

Rand was much sharper earlier in the campaign.

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## Fozz

> You drastically overestimate how many voters pay attention.


Unfortunately, this is the time when they pay attention.

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## sailingaway

> I think in the end, Rand lost this.
> 
> Even if not many people watched this live, I hope the local media doesn't spin this too much in Trey's favor.


The whole country watched it.

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## BamaFanNKy

> There are a lot of undecided voters, and it is clear that Treyson came out stronger, especially on the Iran and Gitmo questions.
> 
> We all want Trey to lose, but when 15% of voters are undecided, and then most of them go to Trey, then this will be VERY close.


Clear? Actually Trey came off as an ass at a H.S. debate toward the middle and end.

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## sailingaway

> Unfortunately, this is the time when they pay attention.


I know.  The one in NKY is being replayed over and over as well, maybe we'll luck out and people will mostly watch that....

Although Rand was pretty good in the middle and end.  Rocky start, and he did throw away an opportunity for a strong close, although I don't think he actually created a negative out of it.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> if rand wasn't in this race i'd vote for gurley.


ditto!

-t

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## BamaFanNKy

You guys are thinking most the electorate is watching this. The "Undecided vote" will most likely not show up to vote. If you are still undecided right now you kinda don't care.

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## Fozz

> I think Gurley's positions are better than Ron Paul's. But Gurley is unelectable of course.


Gurley called Obama a Mullah in another debate. That is very hurtful to Muslims.

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## cmasslibertarian

> The whole country watched it.


You're perceptions are skewed by being on rpf my friend. Most people don't give a $#@! who wins, never mind watching the debates.

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## itshappening

> There are a lot of undecided voters, and it is clear that Treyson came out stronger, especially on the Iran and Gitmo questions.
> 
> We all want Trey to lose, but when 15% of voters are undecided, and then most of them go to Trey, then this will be VERY close.


they wont all go to Trey though, they will split probably more in favor of Rand too

Also, Iran and Gitmo are not big issues in Kentucky or in the country (much as Grayson would like them to be, they are way down the list of polled issues) so it wont hurt him, he got through those questions fine

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## low preference guy

It's not "clear" at all to me that Trey came stronger. He came as an ass who doesn't have any positions and all he can do is criticize his opponent.

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## Fozz

> Clear? Actually Trey came off as an ass at a H.S. debate toward the middle and end.


But he gave a stronger message on security (not that I agree with it) and he sounded more accommodating to Kentuckians. Sure, Rand had his moments, but overall this was a disaster for him.

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## BamaFanNKy

> It's not "clear" at all to me that Trey came stronger. He came as an ass who doesn't have any positions and all he can do is criticize his opponent.


Exactly. Rand settled in after 10 minutes and absorb the blow. 

Trey was pointing and yelling like Gore ala 2000 and Rand put him in place ala Bush. 

YouTube - Al Gore tries to Intimidate Fight George Bush at Debates Nod

I just watched the clip again. Man, did Gore really remind me of Trey.

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## Fozz

> they wont all go to Trey though, they will split probably more in favor of Rand too
> 
> Also, Iran and Gitmo are not big issues in Kentucky or in the country (much as Grayson would like them to be, they are way down the list of polled issues) so it wont hurt him, he got through those questions fine


Many undecided voters who were wondering what Rand's stance is on Iran have probably seen it in the debate, and he was not specific at ALL. Most Kentuckians who put fiscal issues first probably already support Rand, but maybe the undecided ones were uncertain about foreign policy and national security.

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## itshappening

> But he gave a stronger message on security (not that I agree with it) and he sounded more accommodating to Kentuckians. Sure, Rand had his moments, but overall this was a disaster for him.


No it wasn't, Trey seemed very amateurish and always sniping Rand gave good answers to the questions.

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## low preference guy

> Gurley called Obama a Mullah in another debate. That is very hurtful to Muslims.


Gurley referred to the negative connotation of a Mullah. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to bend over backwards to avoid offending hypersensitive religious Muslims.

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## RonPaulFanInGA

> But he gave a stronger message on security (not that I agree with it) and he sounded more accommodating to Kentuckians. Sure, Rand had his moments, but overall this was a disaster for him.


I disagree big time.  My take is it started off badly and then finished up well.  That debate won't swing the vote one way or another.




> hXXp://barefootandprogressive.blogspot.com/2010/05/ky-gop-senate-debate-liveblog.html
> 
> *Well that was fun. Rand Paul absolutely hates Trey Grayson. Trey got him flustered, but there didn't seem to be anything game-changing tonight. Virtual draw.*

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## BamaFanNKy

> But he gave a stronger message on security (not that I agree with it) and he sounded more accommodating to Kentuckians. Sure, Rand had his moments, but overall this was a disaster for him.


As someone in between Ft. Campbell and Ft. Knox.... no he didn't. Most of the military guys I know and the folks who support them do not agree with Cheney or Trey.

Maybe your part of Kentucky is different.

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## itshappening

exactly, the debates are a waste of time really as are those who actually believe all undecideds will vote for Trey

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## BamaFanNKy

> Many undecided voters who were wondering what Rand's stance is on Iran have probably seen it in the debate, and he was not specific at ALL. Most Kentuckians who put fiscal issues first probably already support Rand, but maybe the undecided ones were uncertain about foreign policy and national security.


Seriously, where in Kentucky are you. Even hardcore Republicans want out. Only a few die hard neocons still talking those lines.

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## Fozz

> Exactly. Rand settled in after 10 minutes and absorb the blow. 
> 
> Trey was pointing and yelling like Gore ala 2000 and Rand put him in place ala Bush. 
> 
> I just watched the clip again. Man, did Gore really remind me of Trey.


Speaking of getting things done, Trey seemed pretty persuasive in this debate, especially on negotiating the deficit, while painting Rand as an ideologue.

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## tuco.sargent

Wow. I get done with almost 2 hours worth of phone banking to hear that Rand blew it in the debate. I'm not sure if I want to even watch it now.

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## Chieftain1776

Also the questions were pretty biased against Rand. "You've called your opponent kooky with strange ideas. Have at it!" Rand got a similar chance but it'd be nice if the moderater said "You've pointed out that your opponent is a career politician that's raised money from AIG lobbyist fundraisers. Have at it!"

Also on the campaign donations Rand Paul was basically praised by Opensecrets and USA Today for the small donations he's received 52% of his funds are small donations compared to something like only 7% of Treyson's.

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## Inkblots

I agree that you can definitely tell that Rand is tired; he really didn't bring his 'A game' today.  However, I also wouldn't overestimate the effect of this debate.  More people may be tuning into the election as we go into the final week, but the proportion of undecided primary voters who will bother to tune into C-SPAN for a primetime Senate debate is quite small.  Most viewers will be political junkies like us, who already decided who they were backing 3 months ago.

The most significant thing that can happen at this point is a candidate blowing up at someone or melting down under a question.  Trey was trying hard to make Rand do that, and he thankfully failed.  Rand did look a bit awkward at points, but really, Trey getting in snide remarks about knowing what 'Unite' is isn't going to be the game-changer he needs.

So, on balance, Rand may not have looked so hot, but Trey's the one who lost.

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## low preference guy

> Exactly. Rand settled in after 10 minutes and absorb the blow. 
> 
> Trey was pointing and yelling like Gore ala 2000 and Rand put him in place ala Bush. 
> 
> YouTube - Al Gore tries to Intimidate Fight George Bush at Debates Nod
> 
> I just watched the clip again. Man, did Gore really remind me of Trey.


Wow. Haven't seen this before. No wonder Gore lost. He comes off as even more of an ass than Trey. Gore's look at the end is disgusting.

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## Inkblots

> Well that was fun. Rand Paul absolutely hates Trey Grayson. Trey got him flustered, but there didn't seem to be anything game-changing tonight. Virtual draw.


This is pretty well spot-on, IMO.

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## Fozz

> As someone in between Ft. Campbell and Ft. Knox.... no he didn't. Most of the military guys I know and the folks who support them do not agree with Cheney or Trey.
> 
> Maybe your part of Kentucky is different.


When Rand was asked about Iran, he gave off his platitudes about debating and declaring war, without being specific about Iran itself. And I think Trey was successful in pointing out Rand's position that Iran isn't a threat if they have nukes.

Rand tried to portray it as out of context, but I don't think he won that argument.

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## low preference guy

> Speaking of getting things done, Trey seemed pretty persuasive in this debate, especially on negotiating the deficit, while painting Rand as an ideologue.


No, in this year most people will get scared of Trey after hearing about his 10 years plan to balance the budget. People want "an ideologue" much more than a compromiser this year.

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## Fozz

> No, in this year most people will get scared of Trey after hearing about his 10 years plan to balance the budget. People want "an ideologue" much more than a compromiser this year.


Maybe the Tea party types do, but probably not others.

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## itshappening

> Wow. I get done with almost 2 hours worth of phone banking to hear that Rand blew it in the debate. I'm not sure if I want to even watch it now.


he didnt blow anything, that's just crap from Fozz who knows nothing and could be an infiltrator

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## low preference guy

> Maybe the Tea party types do, but probably not others.


News flash: It's a Republican primary. "others" are a minority.

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## tuco.sargent

> he didnt blow anything, that's just crap from Fozz who knows nothing and could be an infiltrator


You know I think you're right. There's somethin' funny about that guy's public profile pic.......

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## MRoCkEd

It wasn't that bad... Relax

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## Inkblots

> he didnt blow anything, that's just crap from Fozz who knows nothing and could be an infiltrator


Calm down there fella.  I agree Rand did as well as he needed to, but there's no need to get out the tin foil.

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## Fozz

> he didnt blow anything, that's just crap from Fozz who knows nothing and could be an infiltrator


I am not an infiltrator, and I am offended that you accuse me of that.

I just want to judge this debate without the pro-Rand bias that we all have, and it is clear to me that Rand did terribly in the beginning and okay later.

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## Matt Collins

> I agree that you can definitely tell that Rand is tired; he really didn't bring his 'A game' today.


But did Trey bring his "sexy voice"

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## KanTuck22

Some of you are overreacting. Granted, Rand's performance may have been less than what we have seen earlier this year, Grayson acted like a total ass and he loses the most in this debate. Grayson cannot answer a question in his best form. Rand is really lucky that he has to face off against such an amateurish Republican candidate. Fortunately for us, Grayson acts like he is running for student council. He struggles to answer the questions and he acts as if he does not even know what he is talking about half the time. If Rand would have been running against a true slickster tonight (e.g. Mike Huckabee) he may have been in trouble. Rand Paul is an excellent candidate but he is a long way from being the debater that Ron is. That being said, Rand is very good on the issues and he will develop the debating skills of his dad's as he gets more experience in politics.

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## Inkblots

> But did Trey bring his "sexy voice"


Matt Collins, this is why you are America's Greatest Political Pundit.

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## Nathan Hale

Tubes????

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## Fozz

> Tubes????


I hope not.

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## Nathan Hale

> I hope not.


That bad, huh.

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## low preference guy

> I hope not.


There's not a chance of them not surfacing. It's a pretty naive thing to "hope" they won't appear.

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## samforpaul

> he didnt blow anything, that's just crap from Fozz who knows nothing and could be an infiltrator


I was thinking earlier of expressing my opinion that Fozz doesn't seem to be on our team.

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## libertybrewcity

http://www.youtube.com/user/MoxNewsD.../8/stNCeW606Ww

http://www.youtube.com/user/MoxNewsD.../7/h2TBWj3cqsw

http://www.youtube.com/user/MoxNewsD.../6/UqnQG3K2srA

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## ctiger2

I thought Rand did just fine. This debate won't change the 10+ point lead Rand has at all.

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## BamaFanNKy

> I am not an infiltrator, and I am offended that you accuse me of that.
> 
> I just want to judge this debate without the pro-Rand bias that we all have, and it is clear to me that Rand did terribly in the beginning and okay later.


Yeah, but you're not coming from a knowledge point. I've worked in campaigns for national office in Kentucky and your summation is off the mark.

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## Fozz

> Yeah, but you're not coming from a knowledge point. I've worked in campaigns for national office in Kentucky and your summation is off the mark.


I hope so.

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## BamaFanNKy

> I hope so.


Where do you live to know so much what the ground talk is like?

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## low preference guy

Trey needed to win the debate, not only by criticizing Rand, but also by having his own innovative and smart proposals. He should've won so big as to make people think why even Rand is running. That's the only way he could've won the support necessary to start closing the gap.

It didn't happen, and it wasn't even close to that. It was at best a tie for Trey.

Again, if Rand makes sure all his supporters show up and vote, he'll win.

----------


## Nathan Hale

Let us not forget that criticism of our candidates on these boards is a GOOD THING.  It's healthy for us to acknowledge when they're not playing up to their potential.  Better we see the flaws in our guy than blind ourselves to the fact that our people aren't perfect.

I remember during 2007 I was very critical of some of Ron Paul's debate performances, and I caught endless flak from people who wanted to hear nothing but sunshine and rainbows.  These are the strategy forums - it's our job to be a supporter sounding board so that the campaigns can get a quick snapshot of our reaction and see where improvement is needed.  The campaigns do actually follow these boards, and occasionally react to our advice.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

10 words that doomed Trey tonight, "I do think the Federal Government has a role in....."

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Let us not forget that criticism of our candidates on these boards is a GOOD THING.  It's healthy for us to acknowledge when they're not playing up to their potential.  Better we see the flaws in our guy than blind ourselves to the fact that our people aren't perfect.
> 
> I remember during 2007 I was very critical of some of Ron Paul's debate performances, and I caught endless flak from people who wanted to hear nothing but sunshine and rainbows.  These are the strategy forums - it's our job to be a supporter sounding board so that the campaigns can get a quick snapshot of our reaction and see where improvement is needed.  The campaigns do actually follow these boards, and occasionally react to our advice.


Let's also not inflate Trey's Jr./Sr. High debate tactics as "winning." Truth is the crazy old boss hog on the end articulated his message better than Trey. They were trying to out democrat each other.

----------


## low preference guy

> Let us not forget that criticism of our candidates on these boards is a GOOD THING.  It's healthy for us to acknowledge when they're not playing up to their potential.  Better we see the flaws in our guy than blind ourselves to the fact that our people aren't perfect.
> 
> I remember during 2007 I was very critical of some of Ron Paul's debate performances, and I caught endless flak from people who wanted to hear nothing but sunshine and rainbows.  These are the strategy forums - it's our job to be a supporter sounding board so that the campaigns can get a quick snapshot of our reaction and see where improvement is needed.  The campaigns do actually follow these boards, and occasionally react to our advice.


I agree with all that, and still, I think Trey was nowhere close to winning the debate. He might've made Rand look bad on one issue, but Rand made him look bad on balanced budgets, which voters care more about.

----------


## Brett85

> Some of you are overreacting. Granted, Rand's performance may have been less than what we have seen earlier this year, Grayson acted like a total ass and he loses the most in this debate. Grayson cannot answer a question in his best form. Rand is really lucky that he has to face off against such an amateurish Republican candidate. Fortunately for us, Grayson acts like he is running for student council. He struggles to answer the questions and he acts as if he does not even know what he is talking about half the time. If Rand would have been running against a true slickster tonight (e.g. Mike Huckabee) he may have been in trouble. Rand Paul is an excellent candidate but he is a long way from being the debater that Ron is. That being said, Rand is very good on the issues and he will develop the debating skills of his dad's as he gets more experience in politics.



Rand is a much better debater than Ron is.  In the debates, the moderater would ask Ron a question about taxes or health care, and he would start talking about how we need to get out of Iraq.  Not very smart in a Republican primary.

----------


## rich34

> I agree with all that, and still, I think Trey was nowhere close to winning the debate. He might've made Rand look bad on one issue, but Rand made him look bad on balanced budgets, which voters care more about.


Lets hope so.  Didn't get to see the debate, but can it change 10 percent of the vote in less than a week?  They'll probably say that the undecideds "broke" for Trey Grayson.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Wow. Haven't seen this before. No wonder Gore lost. He comes off as even more of an ass than Trey. Gore's look at the end is disgusting.


The media covered it up. It was like it never happened. The only people who saw it were the people who actually watched the whole debate.

----------


## Fozz

> Lets hope so.  Didn't get to see the debate, but can it change 10 percent of the vote in less than a week?  They'll probably say that the undecideds "broke" for Trey Grayson.


About 17% of likely voters are undecided according to the latest poll.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> About 17% of likely voters are undecided according to the latest poll.


Again, Fozz.... where do you live. Most Undecideds in Kentucky with a week left in a primary do not vote.

----------


## MRoCkEd

YouTube - 05/10/2010 Kentucky GOP Senate Debate Rand Paul vs. Trey Grayson from KET

----------


## rich34

> Again, Fozz.... where do you live. Most Undecideds in Kentucky with a week left in a primary do not vote.


Lets hope your right!

----------


## KanTuck22

> Rand is a much better debater than Ron is.  In the debates, the moderater would ask Ron a question about taxes or health care, and he would start talking about how we need to get out of Iraq.  Not very smart in a Republican primary.


Strategy is not necessarily Ron's strong point, although he does tell the truth amazingly well. I acknowledge that Ron's performance in debates is, well, debatable. It has been a while since I have seen Ron debate so I may have an over estimation of his debating skills but this is what I remember from the one of the Republican debates that Ron took part in.... 


YouTube - Ron Paul at the South Carolina Debate 1-10-08

----------


## tuco.sargent

I met a lot of people in Lexington that were mostly either for Paul or undecided. When the undecided's had questions about the differences between the candidates a lot of them were perceptive when we told them about how Frank Dobson was _lied_ to by lead members of the GOP. Most of them didn't know who DeMint was (which is no surprise to me) but they knew who Dobson was and had a lot of respect for him. Being a resident of KY myself I think that that was the biggest fumble of the Gheyson campaign.

----------


## MRoCkEd

> I met a lot of people in Lexington that were mostly either for Paul or undecided. When the undecided's had questions about the differences between the candidates a lot of them were perceptive when we told them about how Frank Dobson was _lied_ to by lead members of the GOP. Most of them didn't know who DeMint was (which is no surprise to me) but they knew who Dobson was and had a lot of respect for him. Being a resident of KY myself I think that that was the biggest fumble of the Gheyson campaign.


Nice, but remember his name is James Dobson, not Frank.

----------


## Brett85

> Strategy is not necessarily Ron's strong point, although he does tell the truth amazingly well. I acknowledge that Ron's performance in debates is, well, debatable. It has been a while since I have seen Ron debate so I may have an over estimation of his debating skills but this is what I remember from the one of the Republican debates that Ron took part in.... 
> 
> 
> YouTube - Ron Paul at the South Carolina Debate 1-10-08


Ron is certainly more direct than Rand is, but I think it's pretty clear that Rand is a much better politician.

----------


## tuco.sargent

> Nice, but remember his name is James Dobson, not Frank.


lol Thanks. You could tell that I'm not a fan of him or anything. I just let the other guy I was going door-to-door with bring it up. For some reason I can never remember his first name.

----------


## freshjiva

Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.

Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


You sir are a moron.

----------


## specsaregood

> Truth is the crazy old boss hog on the end articulated his message better than Trey.


I just needed to quote that so I could read it and LOL again.

----------


## Epic

Go Gurley!

Ahh, Rand too!

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> lol Thanks. You could tell that I'm not a fan of him or anything. I just let the other guy I was going door-to-door with bring it up. For some reason I can never remember his first name.


Just remember he puts the "JD" in WWJD. Obviously What Would Jesus Do is endorse Rand Paul.

----------


## muzzled dogg

> Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


truth

----------


## obijuan

> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


I don't support Rand because he's Ron's son.  I also don't (necessarily) support him because of any similarities or differences he has with Ron (what I mean is the Constitution is the standard, not Ron).  I support him because he's a strict constitutionalist who will work to reduce the size and scope of the federal government.  I support him because he will be the strongest voice for liberty in the United States Senate.  I support him for many, not all, of his positions.  And I support him because I am tired of the false "choices" I'm so often given between the big government Republican and the big government Democrat.

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> truth


Shemdogg is Dorfman:
YouTube - Classic Movie Line #4

----------


## BamaFanNKy

> I don't support Rand because he's Ron's son.  I also don't (necessarily) support him because of any similarities or differences he has with Ron (what I mean is the Constitution is the standard, not Ron).  I support him because he's a strict constitutionalist who will work to reduce the size and scope of the federal government.  I support him because he will be the strongest voice for liberty in the United States Senate.  I support him for many, not all, of his positions.  And I support him because I am tired of the false "choices" I'm so often given between the big government Republican and the big government Democrat.


We have a winner!
YouTube - Price Is Right Theme Song - Game Show Theme Songs

----------


## BamaFanNKy

Yes, I started drinking after I saw my Lakers were about to start. I hope it burns off by the time I wake up at 4:30am.

----------


## GoatsGoneWild

If it wasn't clear already, this debate solidifies the notion that Rand seems to dislike Grayson as a human being.

I can't say I blame him.  I would love nothing more than to see Grayson's political career be over after this.  He represents everything that is broken with government.

----------


## Flash

> Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


Have you ever thought the people of KY like Rand Paul because the way he markets his libertarian views rather than his actual libertarian principles? He could go up there yelling about the income tax, drug war, Israeli-American relations but that would keep him out of the Senate and make the whole race pointless. Whats at stake? Millions of dollars that donors gave to the campaign for Rand to be victorious.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


Cause it's clear he is somebody that knows how to win.  Winning is attractive.

And Gurley Martin is a crazy old birther.

----------


## Derek Johnson

Rand spoke of the twisting of and big government basing expansive powers via the Commerce clause staring in the 1930s....not a bad point, and true, but waaaay back before the 1930s Hamilton argued that the Clause was really a license for the government to regulate all commerce, intrastate as well as interstate. For "What regulation of [interstate] commerce does not extend to the internal commerce of every State?" he asked. His political compatriots were all too happy to carry this argument forward in order to give themselves the ability to regulate all commerce in America. 

I wish Rand had the historical depth and Mises economic bredth of his dad, and his dad's ability to articulate libertarianism in lieu of slinging sandbox turds.  Rand is sharp, but gets caught up easily talking about who said what when.

----------


## freshjiva

> Have you ever thought the people of KY like Rand Paul because the way he markets his libertarian views rather than his actual libertarian principles? He could go up there yelling about the income tax, drug war, Israeli-American relations but that would keep him out of the Senate and make the whole race pointless. Whats at stake? Millions of dollars that donors gave to the campaign for Rand to be victorious.


Perhaps, but a certain other Congressman from Texas has been elected 11 times and received over a million votes in the 2008 Presidential election on exactly that strategy of pure straight-talk... 

One thing is for sure, though: Rand is a much more skilled politician than Ron.

----------


## Derek Johnson

> Cause it's clear he is somebody that knows how to win.  Winning is attractive.
> 
> And Gurley Martin is a crazy old birther.


That's what happens when you call it like it is.

The internet forums label you with names such as "crazy old ______"

Too bad the others do not have his guts.  Politics.

----------


## StateofTrance

Gurley: "War is a means of increasing government. If we go to war, we win 'em."

I love this man.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

> Perhaps, but a certain other Congressman from Texas has been elected 11 times and received over a million votes in the 2008 Presidential election on exactly that strategy of pure straight-talk...


Let's stop this.  Ron Paul got just over 5% of the popular vote nationally in the GOP primary.  His vote total was less than frickin' Kucinich in 2004 and barely better than Alan Keyes in 2000.  He finished 1st in zero states and won something like 12 delegates.  I like Ron Paul, I voted for him and will again in 2012 if he runs, but lets get real please: it wasn't a good showing by any stretch of the imagination.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

> That's what happens when you call it like it is.
> 
> The internet forums label you with names such as "crazy old ______"
> 
> Too bad the others do not have his guts.  Politics.


Sorry Derek, but you can't hide it:

http://www.gurleylmartin.com/

----------


## specsaregood

> I can't say I blame him.  I would love nothing more than to see Grayson's political career be over after this.  He represents everything that is broken with government.


I hope from here on out, we always have a small government republican candidate ready to run against him, for whatever office he runs for, for eternity. 

And I know it isn't a good idea to say this in Republican circles, but  I hope Rand hand picks somebody to primary McConnell on his next go around.

----------


## JohnG

Marcus Carey for Senate!  I hope he runs in 2014. Supposing The Collins isn't interested 

/JohnG

----------


## klamath

> Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


Maybe since you don't like Rand you haven't been following the race but if you had you wouldn't have missed the constant snarling statements from the RP haters and the Grayson campaign  that "RAND  IS JUST LIKE HIS FATHER AND IS JUST HIDING IT!"
In case you haven't figured it out a defeat for Rand *IS* a defeat for RP. The republican establishment and particularly the Neocons (Goul, Chaney and mcConnell) have framed this election as being about defeating RP libertarian Republicans. A defeat for Rand will be a flat out statement that RP is rejected as a leader in the republican party and the Chaney's, Bush's and goul's will retain control of the republican party.

RP will not have a chance in hell of winning anything if Rand loses to the neocon tidal wave of attacks this election.

----------


## TheConstitutionLives

> Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


You're obviously not too sharp if you haven't already by now realized that this is a CAMPAIGN.

----------


## Derek Johnson

> Sorry Derek, but you can't hide it:
> 
> http://www.gurleylmartin.com/


You've taken the bait.  

Others haven't.

Now open wide....and swallow.  

That's a good boy!

----------


## muzzled dogg

lol gurly posted his birth cert

----------


## StateofTrance

Rand to Trey: "You know it's a lie because you desperately need this job so badly that you lie to try to get it.." LOL

----------


## Matt Collins

> Yes, I started drinking after I saw my Lakers were about to start. I hope it burns off by the time I wake up at 4:30am.


There seems to be a recurring theme in your posts here...

----------


## Matt Collins

> I wish Rand had the historical depth and Mises economic bredth


He does

----------


## Nathan Hale

> I agree with all that, and still, I think Trey was nowhere close to winning the debate. He might've made Rand look bad on one issue, but Rand made him look bad on balanced budgets, which voters care more about.


I think Trey countered the balanaced budget criticism well.  While Rand was stuck on the ropes on Iran and Gitmo.

----------


## Matt Collins

> but lets get real please: it wasn't a good showing by any stretch of the imagination.


Actually it was great for people of his (our) ideaology. Typically liberty candidates would only receive 1 or 2% of the vote.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Marcus Carey for Senate!  I hope he runs in 2014. Supposing The Collins isn't interested


Well remember there is an age requirement that exists

----------


## JohnG

Age requirement? But Carey is above 35 (or whatever age limit there is)? I don't know how old you are, I just didn't think you were a youngster

----------


## Derek Johnson

> He does


Come on Matt, 1930s?

"Not a single federal law was ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court (under ICC auspices) since the 1930s, per the Hamilton-Adams John Marshall legacy" is the complete answer...

and Ron would have delivered some such backup, as he's a historical adept, as we know.

Maybe Rand is deeper than that and is keeping it simple and brief, I hope that he is.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

> Age requirement? But Carey is above 35 (or whatever age limit there is)? I don't know how old you are, I just didn't think you were a youngster


The Collins said a couple of months ago that his age is 27 or 28 (I forgot which).  So he wouldn't be 35 by 2014.

*EDIT*: You only have to be 30 to run for Senate, Matt.  It's 35 for President.

----------


## low preference guy

> The Collins said a couple of months ago that his age is 27 or 28 (I forgot which).  So he wouldn't be 35 by 2014.


Plus, his people skills won't ever allow him to be elected.

----------


## economics102

Rand always looks tired. But you know what? At least it's a genuine look. He's tired 'cause he works his ass off, and he's combating Grayson's $3 million smear campaign by getting out in person to as many voters as possible.

Rand is gonna be pretty tired when he's a senator too. He's gonna be pulling late nights in the senate filibustering the crap out of bills and using his platform as Senator to spread his message as tirelessly as his father spreads his.

Rand is genuine, and you can see it unmistakably right on his face. That's what matters, and people can see that. I met Rand the night he formally announced his Senate run. He looked tired then too. I think that's just who he is, he's the dogged warrior who's always tired-looking because he's always fighting.

On an unrelated note, I think I actually hate Stephenson more than Grayson after tonight's debate. What an arrogant, holier-than-thou, long-winded, pompous excuse for a conservative candidate. And he basically admitted as much, saying he was a Democrat but switched because of the abortion issue and seemingly holds mostly liberal values on every other issue.

----------


## JohnG

Oh, that's too bad... anyway we could ask Gurley?  Just kidding. I'd support Johnson over McConnell though.

----------


## specsaregood

> Rand always looks tired. But you know what? At least it's a genuine look. He's tired 'cause he works his ass off, and he's combating Grayson's $3 million smear campaign by getting out in person to as many voters as possible.


This can't be said enough.
FROM TODAY



> Rand on radioTime: 11:00 AM
> Rand will be a guest on Sue Wylie's talk radio show on WVLK AM 590 in Lexington starting at 11am ET. at 11:00 AM
> 
> Rand in LexingtonTime: 2:00 PM
> Rand will join supporters at The Racquet Club clubhouse, 3900 Crosby Drive, Lexington at 2pm ET. at 2:00 PM
> 
> Rand On Fox News Neil CavutoTime: 4:40 PM
> Rand Paul will appear on Fox News Channel's "Your World With Neil Cavuto" program today around 4:42 pm ET. at 4:40 PM
> 
> ...

----------


## lx43

You know Stephenson may take a few votes away from Grayson.    He appeals to the social conservatives.

----------


## sailingaway

> You're perceptions are skewed by being on rpf my friend. Most people don't give a $#@! who wins, never mind watching the debates.


No, this race is getting national coverage, that is why CSPAN was covering this debate. I wish they'd covered an earlier one, instead, is all.

----------


## sailingaway

> Rand is a much better debater than Ron is.  In the debates, the moderater would ask Ron a question about taxes or health care, and he would start talking about how we need to get out of Iraq.  Not very smart in a Republican primary.


If he had been trying to win, but he was running IN ORDER to talk about Iraq and the dollar crises.  He worked it towards the topic he wanted to address.

----------


## low preference guy

Both Ron and Rand are good. Ron inspired the entire movement, Rand is trying to win an important senate seat. Please stop trying to find something in which one is better than the other and realize that both are contributing to the liberty movement in their own way.

----------


## Michigan11

Rand, like Ron, is always about 10 steps ahead, and you don't see it until looking back.

----------


## Linus

Rand did good, I felt much re-assured in my support after watching him.  I had never actually seen him speak before.  

But I gotta say, I was pretty impressed by John Stephenson as well.

----------


## TheConstitutionLives

> Rand did good, I felt much re-assured in my support after watching him.  I had never actually seen him speak before.  
> 
> But I gotta say, I was pretty impressed by John Stephenson as well.


Stephenson is a pro-life democrat.  If u like him at all you should hate Rand.  Liking he and Rand at the same time makes absolutely zero sense.

----------


## Matt Collins

I just realized what it was.... there was no audience there! That is why things seemed a bit odd and Treyson was a bit edgier than normal!

----------


## brandon

Rand did terrible in this debate. He is a liar, and a bad one at that. Listening to him tying to make his "iran threat" flip flop not a flip flop made me cringe.  Typical politician BS that makes me not even really care if he loses.

On the other hand Trey comes across as very likable and reasonable.


(serious)

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Is it bad that I would strongly consider voting for Gurley Martin over Rand if I were a Kentuckian? *He's more of a Ron Paul Republican than Rand is.*
> 
> Seriously, I don't understand why so many people support Rand here. Just because he's the son of the Godfather doesn't make him anything like his father.


Hate to say it but - TRUTH!

I wouldn't consider voting for Gurley - he's polling at 2% vs Rand's 48% but his message does resonate.  He also is running an educational / vanity campaign.  He has no intent to win.  I was briefly considering donating to him, as anyone that likes him is going to find Rand a more practical / realistic second choice over the other 2, but he doesn't seem to be doing anything to promote his ideas.

I really like that he won't accept donations over $50 and that he's calling for a constitutional amendment to make any bill over 47 pages unconstitutional and unworthy of consideration.  I'd pay a few bucks to spread ideas like that!

btw: I do generally like Rand's platform and have donated to him multiple times.

-t

----------


## SilentBull

> Rand did terrible in this debate. He is a liar, and a bad one at that. Listening to him tying to make his "iran threat" flip flop not a flip flop made me cringe.  Typical politician BS that makes me not even really care if he loses.
> 
> On the other hand Trey comes across as very likable and reasonable.
> 
> 
> (serious)



Wow. You guys need to understand Rand is in this to win. He is doing what it takes to win. If flip-flopping is what it takes, I don't care if he does it. Some of the supporters appear to be happier losing, than have a liberty candidate actually play the politics game. I don't care what it takes. If he needs to lie, so be it. The other side does it all the time, and that's why they win.

----------


## TheConstitutionLives

> Wow. You guys need to understand Rand is in this to win. He is doing what it takes to win. If flip-flopping is what it takes, I don't care if he does it. Some of the supporters appear to be happier losing, than have a liberty candidate actually play the politics game. I don't care what it takes. If he needs to lie, so be it. The other side does it all the time, and that's why they win.


They dont undestand that. It doesn matter how many times theyre reminded of the political REALITY, they want a pure campaign and no chance of winning instead of a compromised campaign and a chance of winning.  Pretty f'ing dumb on their part really.  They'll shoot off their own nose to spite their face.  F'em.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Rand did terrible in this debate. He is a liar, and a bad one at that. Listening to him tying to make his "iran threat" flip flop not a flip flop made me cringe.  Typical politician BS that makes me not even really care if he loses.
> 
> On the other hand Trey comes across as very likable and reasonable.
> 
> 
> (serious)


You should look at the platform that Ron ran on when he first ran for Congress. I suspect you probably would'nt have voted for him either at the time. Just sayin'

----------


## specsaregood

> I don't care what it takes. If he needs to lie, so be it. The other side does it all the time, and that's why they win.


Example A:
YouTube - McCain TV Ad: "Complete The Danged Fence"

----------


## Brett85

> Rand did terrible in this debate. He is a liar, and a bad one at that. Listening to him tying to make his "iran threat" flip flop not a flip flop made me cringe.  Typical politician BS that makes me not even really care if he loses.
> 
> On the other hand Trey comes across as very likable and reasonable.
> 
> 
> (serious)


Right.  He could just come out and say that Iran isn't a threat and get 10% of the vote in the primary.  That's a good strategy.

----------


## obijuan

> Rand did terrible in this debate.


It was his worst performance in the debates so far to be sure, but it was far from terrible.




> He is a liar, and a bad one at that. Listening to him tying to make his "iran threat" flip flop not a flip flop made me cringe.


His point about intellectual dishonesty is that when you take a quote out of context and draw your own conclusions, you paint him as a flip-flopper.  The quote "Our national security is not threatened by Iran having one nuclear weapon" has been used to imply that Rand isn't *concerned* about a nuclear Iran, which is false.  I think his point was rather that we shouldn't *invade* over Iran having a nuclear weapon -- that the threat of a nuclear Iran does not justify a preemptive war.

It's really hard to communicate that in fifteen seconds.  I do wish he'd be clearer on it, and I'm sure he wishes the soundbite wasn't out there, because there's a huge difference between his point and the soundbite.

I dunno, really...the problem is that any well-reasoned and nuanced position will get you killed in politics.

Reporter:  "If Iran has a single nuclear weapon, is our national security threatened?"

Candidate:  "No, not in that very specific case."

Reporter:  "Wow, you support a nuclear Iran!"

Candidate:   "No, that's neither what I said nor what I mean.  My point is..."

Reporter:  "And that's all the time we have!"

Drives me crazy.




> On the other hand Trey comes across as very likable and reasonable.


Trey comes across as a smarmy douchenozzle who's more concerned about "scoring points" than fixing the very real problems our nation faces.

----------


## DeadheadForPaul

> Rand did terrible in this debate. He is a liar, and a bad one at that. Listening to him tying to make his "iran threat" flip flop not a flip flop made me cringe.  Typical politician BS that makes me not even really care if he loses.
> 
> On the other hand Trey comes across as very likable and reasonable.
> 
> 
> (serious)


YouTube - billy madison - insanely idiotic

----------


## DeadheadForPaul

Some of you do not understand how elections work

If Rand stood up and listed off all the libertarian talking points, he would get about 5% of the vote.  That's why I left the LP - because they simply do not understand how to appeal to mainstream voters

There's a smart way to approach politics without abandoning your principles...and there is a wrong way which involves loudly proclaiming that you want to legalize drugs, dismantle 95% of the federal government, etc.

I trust Rand/David Adams more than I trust delusional keyboard warriors on RPF who clearly have not followed the race until right now

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I just realized what it was.... there was no audience there!


I thought they were holding it at a nursery, due to the toddlers making noise in the background.

----------

