# Start Here > Guest Forum >  Kansas Gov cuts taxes, disaster strikes

## 56ktarget

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/op...-tax-cuts.html




> There was a windstorm of hasty excuses in recent weeks after Kansas reported that it took in $338 million less than expected in the 2014 fiscal year and would have to dip heavily into a reserve fund. Spending wasnt cut enough, said conservatives. Too many rich people sold off stock in the previous year, state officials said. Its the price of creating jobs, said Gov. Sam Brownback.
> 
> 
> None of those reasons were correct. There was only one reason for the states plummeting revenues, and that was the spectacularly ill-advised income tax cuts that Mr. Brownback and his fellow Republicans engineered in 2012 and 2013. The cuts, which largely benefited the wealthy, cost the state 8 percent of the revenue it needs for schools and other government services. As the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities noted, thats about the same as the effect of a midsize recession. Moodys cut the states debt rating in April for the first time in at least 13 years, citing the cuts and a lack of confidence in the states fiscal management.
> 
> 
> The 2012 cuts were among the largest ever enacted by a state, reducing the top tax bracket by 25 percent and eliminating all taxes on business profits that are reported on individual income returns. (No other state has ever eliminated all taxes on these pass-through businesses.) The cuts were arrogantly promoted by Mr. Brownback with the same disproven theory that Republicans have employed for decades: There will be no loss of revenue because of all the economic growth!
> 
> 
> ...

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

So it's an article from a consumer publication with no sourced facts or documented numbers to back what it says about a declining economy.  It is however, heavy on the figures for the people who get handout money.

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## 56ktarget

? All the facts are clearly sourced... You might want to click the article before saying something like that...

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

I did click the article.  There is no access unless you have a paid subscription.

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## 56ktarget

Try typing the title of the article (Kansas's ruinous tax cuts) on google and click the link. Those count as freebies, not requiring a sub.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Try typing the article?!!  It's your thread.  I read the article.  That's all I see.  

You got anything else?

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## 56ktarget

Lmao, if you cant bother reading the article to get the citations, dont bother responding with your trollery.

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## angelatc

They had reserves?


$#@! that.

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## angelatc

Without the tax cuts, the Kansas economy would have been in far worse shape:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/econom...tate-s-economy




> Such reinvestment is beginning to show up in the statistics. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, in May *Kansas touted an unemployment rate of just 4.8 percent, compared to 5.1 percent in Texas, 5.8 percent in Colorado, and 6.8 percent in Arizona. Its also way below the national unemployment rate of 6.1 percent.*Of special interest, however, is the* unemployment rate of next-door-neighbor Missouri which shares not only a border with Kansas but also more than half of Kansas City. Missouri, which didnt cut income taxes (they remain at six percent on taxable incomes above $9,000) suffers from an unemployment rate of 6.6 percent, and climbing.
> *
> A close look at what is happening in the Kansas City metro area is revealing: From May 2011 through May 2012 (June numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics wont be published until July 18), *almost three-fourths of job growth took place in Kansas City,**Kansas. Whats even more impressive, however, is that Kansas City, Kansas has one-fourth the population of Kansas City, Missouri: 145,000 compared to 476,000. 
> 
> As Will Upton modestly concluded in his blog at Americans for Tax Reform, It is arguable that the 2012 spike [in employment on the Kansas side of town] was caused by businesses anticipating a better tax climate in Kansas after the 2012 tax cuts.*


Liberals should be deported.  Enough of their bull$#@!.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Lmao, if you cant bother reading the article to get the citations, dont bother responding with your trollery.



I did read the article.  There are no citations.  It's an editorial.

Maybe if you weren't so busy amusing yourself, then you would have bothered to see that in your own thread.

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## angelatc

> I did read the article.  There are no citations.  It's an editorial.
> 
> Maybe if you weren't so busy amusing yourself, then you would have seen that in your own thread.


From the article linked above:

 


> *The cast of fools promoting this nonsense in the national media seized upon a single piece of data — that Kansas state government revenues for the current fiscal year have dropped slightly* — to make the case that Kansas was soon going to disappear into a morass of unemployment resulting in massive cutbacks in state services for roads, education, and such. Leading the parade of such Keynesian dreamers was Michael Hiltzik, author of





> _The Economy Hub_ for the _Los Angeles Times_. He called Kansas a graveyard, thanks to Brownback, Laffer, and those knuckle-dragging tea partiers:


Liberals are the stupidest people on the planet.

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## 56ktarget

You know you can click on the numbers right? And then it directs you to the citation (source)? Have u never read an article on the NYT?

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> You know you can click on the numbers right? And then it directs you to the citation (source)? Have u never read an article on the NYT?


No, I don't get economic information from consumer publications.  It's because (among other things) they simply quote one another, just like they did here.  Their source is another editorial--this time, the Kansas City Star. 

Anyway, the KC Star provided a whole lot more context.  They said:

_"Last November, U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics showed Kansas had reached a post-recession high in total nonfarm employment with 1,384,900 jobs.

But in the latest report ending in May, the number had fallen to 1,383,300, or a loss of 1,600 jobs.

_While that’s a small sum, Kansas was one of only five states in the nation to shed employment over that time."



Guess the NY Times forgot to mention the "small sum" of jobs that was lost.  I ain't got a calculator handy, but I think the percentage of 1600 into 1.3 million must be in the thousands of a percent.  So the budget was cut by 8%, but the loss of jobs was .001% or something.  

Maybe all the government money they cut was for the 1600 government jobs they cut.

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## 56ktarget

But the nyt editorial isn't arguing that point. They're arguing that the tax cuts decreased revenue, which in turn forces spending cuts.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> But the nyt editorial isn't arguing that point. They're arguing that the tax cuts decreased revenue, which in turn forces spending cuts.


They said spending was down and jobs were lost.  They said the neighboring states had increased employment.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> Kansas Gov cuts taxes, disaster strikes


By the way--where's the _disaster?_

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## pcosmar

> They're arguing that the tax cuts decreased revenue, which in turn forces spending cuts.


you say that like it's a bad thing.

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## Origanalist

Bring back Fire11.

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## Weston White

1.  Aren’t school funds paid through property taxes, or at least primarily so?
2.  This reduction seems to be directed at businesses and retailers, but not so much at consumers.  Therefore, while the base for business has been increased, the base for its consumption has been left behind to bottleneck the growth process.
3.  Business still have overly high federal taxes to deal with, a reduction in state taxes is always nice, but pales in comparison.  Is that really enough to drive in newly interested business, which should be the real test?

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## Acala

Falling government revenue is a good thing.  Every dollar in government hands fuels cronycapitalist corruption, violence, and a more ignorant population.

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## oyarde

No disaster . More cuts needed, spending and taxes.

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## NorthCarolinaLiberty

Funny how the liberal will admit he has co-dependency with government.  He loves his government and tells you he wants more of it.  There are others who love the government, but pretend otherwise.

Guess the problem is that these co-dependents think that this type of relationship is a healthy one.  The idea that the OP sees somebody cutting him off as a "disaster" really highlights the dysfunctional nature of the relationship.

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## Cleaner44

Oh noes... the people of Kansas were allowed to keep their money instead of handing over to the politicians!  Oh the humanity!  When will people learn that the only way to avoid financial disaster is to hand over all of their money to their kind overlords in the ivory tower of the capitol to spend for them.  Only politicians can spend money in Kansas in a way that benefits the people of Kansas.  When will these fools ever learn?

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## Acala

What the OP fails to realize is that most people on this site think Art Laffer is an idiot.  The purpose of cutting taxes is not to increase government revenue.  The purpose of cutting taxes is to stop stealing money from the people who earn it.

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## oyarde

> Bring back Fire11.


I would prefer that to this .

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## Boshembechle

Not sure why this is a bad thing.

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## Boshembechle

That's in no way proof that the conservative tax cut policy doesn't work. Louisiana and Florida are examples of it's success.  

There are a few reasons it didn't work here:  

1. They cut too much without cutting some spending.  

2.  Economic growth doesn't happen quickly..takes a few years to really  take effect, especially in a piss poor national economy and federal  regulations being too stiff.  

3. Kansas has very little to  attract new businesses, even with a favorable tax policy to business.  Kansas fricking sucks....and people aren't gonna grow more corn there  because taxes are lower

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