# Liberty Movement > Rand Paul Forum >  2016 Iowa Caucus Thread

## Joeinmo

The Iowa Caucus starts Feb. 1 @ 7pm

In order to caucus, you must be 18 years old by Election Day 2016, November 8. This means you must have been born on or before November 8, 1998

Stand With Rand


http://www.decisiondeskhq.com

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## TER



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## TER



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## rp08orbust

Traditionally these threads always begin with homage to Toady, the amphibious god of primaries and caucuses.  I guess we will find out how forgiving he is by how well Rand does...

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## Jeremy

> Traditionally these threads always begin with homage to Toady, the amphibious god of primaries and caucuses.  I guess we will find out how forgiving he is by how well Rand does...


Toady always has our back, you can count on that.

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## speciallyblend

top 3 or just WIN IOWA, #STANDWITHRAND, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avAvkdYa3qM

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## TheNewYorker

> Traditionally these threads always begin with homage to Toady, the amphibious god of primaries and caucuses.  I guess we will find out how forgiving he is by how well Rand does...


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-is-the-Caucus

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## TER

> Traditionally these threads always begin with homage to Toady, the amphibious god of primaries and caucuses.  I guess we will find out how forgiving he is by how well Rand does...


This is the Sioux snow dance.

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## speciallyblend

toady, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn_yRlYVnUw

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## rprprs

> The Iowa Caucus starts Feb. 1 @ 7pm
> 
> In order to caucus, you must be 18 years old by Election Day 2016, November 8. This means you must have been born on or before November 8, 1998
> 
> Stand With Rand


I'm feeling very stupid right now, and I guess you might ask where I've been these last few months, but I had no idea the caucus began so late in the day.

So, when might we expect to hear results?

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## Brett85

What's the best website to look at for the election results?

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## LatinsforPaul



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## Jan2017

> ^^ this is probably going to be the best link,as long as the server can handle the load.  It should update instantly from the app they are using in the precincts to send the vote tallies.


The precincts report to the Republican Party, whether some use an app now or those that still will use a phone call.

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## ds21089

> ^^ this is probably going to be the best link,as long as the server can handle the load.  It should update instantly from the app they are using in the precincts to send the vote tallies.


They are using an app?!?.. Lovely.. Results will be tampered so easily...

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## CPUd

Yes, they are all using an app this time.

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## Jan2017

> The precincts report to the Republican Party, whether some use an app now or those that still will use a phone call.


https://www.iowagop.org/
https://www.iagopcaucuses.com/#/state




> They are using an app?!?.. Lovely.. Results will be tampered so easily...


I agree.

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## CPUd

Rand's events for toady:




> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 8:30 a.m.
> Hy-Vee Waukee, 1005 Hickman Rd, Waukee, IA
> Rand Paul will hold an agriculture roundtable coffee meeting with Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Ia.) and Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.).
> 
> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 12 p.m.
> Rand Paul Campaign Office, 1901 Bell Ave, Des Moines, IA
> Rand Paul will hold a rally with Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) and Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.).
> 
> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 2 p.m.
> ...

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## CPUd

> They are using an app?!?.. Lovely.. Results will be tampered so easily...


There's going to be some screwups for sure, which is why it is important to have precinct captains involved in that process.

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## 65fastback2+2

I love the media and people's willingness to believe it.

Brother just messaged me "Early reports are rand isnt in the top 3"

Id def say thats early as 1 vote hasnt been cast lol.

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## luctor-et-emergo

Just a random question, but, does anybody know which media will provide livestreams/coverage of the caucuses ?

4 years ago I watched C-span but they hate foreigners now..

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## ds21089

> ALL HAIL TOADY!!! 4 DA WINNNN!


Ahaha. Look at that toad with his little crow- ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD

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## Jan2017

> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 5 p.m.
> Iowa State University, 2229 Lincoln Way, Ames, IA
> Rand Paul will hold a 10,000 Rally with Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky) and Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-SC)at 1027 Curtiss Hall.
> 
> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 7 p.m.
> DoubleTree by Hilton Hotel Cedar Rapids, 350 1st Ave NE, Cedar Rapids, IA
> Rand Paul will attend the Linn County Republican Caucus.
> 
> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 9 p.m.
> Scottish Rite Consistory, 519 Park St, Des Moines, IA


Ames at 5pm, then over to one of the precincts in Linn County/Cedar Rapids by 7pm start time, then back to Des Moines at night - seems like a tight schedule.

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## Dianne

> They are using an app?!?.. Lovely.. Results will be tampered so easily...


Yeah, I just picked this up on drudge report:

Microsoft’s Bing technology has called Iowa for Hillary Clinton, a result that has not gone unnoticed amongst Bernie Sanders supporters given that an app created by Microsoft will help tally the vote during tonight’s caucus.

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## ds21089

> There's going to be some screwups for sure, which is why it is important to have precinct captains involved in that process.


No. I mean whatever the source of the app is can contain an algorithm to take a vote from candidate x and give to candidate y,  can it not? I really don't trust software in doing such an important process... Especially one from Microsoft.

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## chronicaust

> No. I mean whatever the source of the app is can contain an algorithm to take a vote from candidate x and give to candidate y,  can it not? I really don't trust software in doing such an important process... Especially one from Microsoft.


What's the app? Source code can be decompiled and audited for consistency. Surely they must know this. The easier method of tampering would be at the server level, where source code isn't made publicly available.

You just use apktool and you can get close to the original Java files by using smali. Reading them takes time and experience but it's not impossible.

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## TheNewYorker

> No. I mean whatever the source of the app is can contain an algorithm to take a vote from candidate x and give to candidate y,  can it not? I really don't trust software in doing such an important process... Especially one from Microsoft.


Absolutely. I develop apps, and if  I was the Designer of this app id program it so for every vote cast for trump, it gave rand an additional 2 votes

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## CPUd

> No. I mean whatever the source of the app is can contain an algorithm to take a vote from candidate x and give to candidate y,  can it not? I really don't trust software in doing such an important process... Especially one from Microsoft.


Pretty sure they are still using paper for the balloting, the app comes in when they tally the votes and send them in.  Candidate reps (precinct captains) can be in the room where this happens.  The one in the count location can look online and verify the totals they came up with match what is posted.

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## Uriah

> Pretty sure they are still using paper for the balloting, the app comes in when they tally the votes and send them in.  Candidate reps (precinct captains) can be in the room where this happens.  The one in the count location can look online and verify the totals they came up with match what is posted.


100% correct. Every time I have caucused several people were monitoring the vote count in my precinct. I verified the results I -saw with my own eyes-to the results reported in the media.

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## CPUd

Rand and his family members will also be precinct captains.  Rand said the location he will be at in Cedar Rapids could have 4,000 people.

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## ds21089

> 100% correct. Every time I have caucused several people were monitoring the vote count in my precinct. I verified the results I -saw with my own eyes-to the results reported in the media.


Ok that is good to know. Thank you.

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## jbauer

> Absolutely. I develop apps, and if  I was the Designer of this app id program it so for every vote cast for trump, it gave rand an additional 2 votes


So if 100k people vote and Trump gets 50K votes then Rand would have a 50% vote total in IA....seems possible.

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## fatjohn

> Rand and his family members will also be precinct captains.  Rand said the location he will be at in Cedar Rapids could have 4,000 people.


And ron will be where? Des moines?

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## Makes Interesting Points

I'm so hyped up that I can't even focus on my college homework. We may need a "miracle" for the USA's only hope to rise up as a hero. Please God, tonight may be the last chance for Paul to gain the momentum he needs. Rand Paul is only person on Earth who can save us from both permanent freedom loss and loss of values. American citizens are becoming desensitized to police state esque law more and more by the day. This may be our last chance to stop this unholy submission, and the slippery slope into oblivion. God, I know I don't go to church as much as most of the people supporting Cruz or Rubio, but we need some help here. Can't you see the resemblance between your Divine Guarentee to keep Christianity alive and the necessary struggle to keep our freedoms alive? We also need to ensure that the American dollar doesn't collapse, by having someone focused on less spending, such as Paul. Let's keep freedom of thought alive by NOT letting the USA (and therefore almost the whole world) fall to socialism! Rand Paul is the one who can best win the general election. He can make capitalism, morals, and freedom of thought cool to the young generation like nobody else could, and like nobody else may ever have the chance to do. Paul is all in. I'm all in with Paul. No regrets. Let's dive right in to the results with no fear. Let's go. Everything we have worked for has led to this moment! YEAH!

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## rp08orbust

> Toady always has our back, you can count on that.


He does look very vigilant:

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## invisible

> Rand's events for toady:


Will any of these events be streamed?  I would be especially interested in seeing the Linn County caucus event!

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## seapilot



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## fatjohn

> Rand now outperforming Cruz in Google search in Iowa:


I like how for rand google refers to the country "The United States" while for Rafael 'Ted' Cruz it refers to the continent.

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## Sentinelrv

Possibly some good news! Lots of empty seats at a Trump rally today...

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/empty...-sh&soc_trk=tw

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## libertyplz



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## liberty_nc

> Rand PaulFeb 1, 2016, 9 p.m.Scottish Rite Consistory, 519 Park St, Des Moines, IA
> Rand Paul _will_ hold a victory party with Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky) and Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-SC).


 Interesting

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## bronc_fan23

What times (central time) are we looking at for results to start flowing in?

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## Uriah

> What times (central time) are we looking at for results to start flowing in?


They will begin to trickle in around 8pm CST.

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## Jackie Moon

> 


I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

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## spikel

> They will begin to trickle in around 8pm CST.


So we'll know the results around 8-9PM est?

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## CPUd

> So we'll know the results around 8-9PM est?


For some of the precincts.  It might take 3-5 hours for the larger ones.

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## Original_Intent

> So we'll know the results around 8-9PM est?


Give or take 3 hours.

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## spikel

> For some of the precincts.  It might take 3-5 hours for the larger ones.


Cool thank you I'm getting pretty excited!

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## speciallyblend

hoping to get updates right here, watching espn Louisville vs NC, avoiding tv media,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcQexz1iU5M

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## WTLaw

CNN just observed a reportedly large turnout in the GOP caucuses, fwiw.

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## speciallyblend

> CNN just observed a reportedly large turnout in the GOP caucuses, fwiw.


 hopefully that is a good sign ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEmg5GaAHbk

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## Patrick Henry

Hopefully the majority were wearing Rand gear.



> CNN just observed a reportedly large turnout in the GOP caucuses, fwiw.

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## TheNewYorker

> hopefully that is a good sign ,
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEmg5GaAHbk


Bad thing.

That means Rand's pledged votes from the students and such will net him a smaller % of the overall vote

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## HarryBrowneLives

Also talking about a lot of new people and young people in gop caucus sites

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## Brett85

> Bad thing.
> 
> That means Rand's pledged votes from the students and such will net him a smaller % of the overall vote


But most of the new people could be Rand Paul supporters.

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## kbs021

CNN is stating many young voters registering. Love it.

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## TheNewYorker

> But most of the new people could be Rand Paul supporters.


Hopefully.

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## WTLaw

> Also talking about a lot of new people and young people in gop caucus sites


Thats good.  


Lets also note that we are expecting some precints will be jam packed.  And we are talking about just a glance from CNN, with no ready means for comparison since the last one was 4 years ago.  Perception would be, after this long run up "man, theres a lot of really politically charged people here"...Maybe

Lol, CNN talking head just said be leary of the reports.  Thanks CNN, more gold commentary that we have come to expect.

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## TheNewYorker

> CNN is stating many young voters registering. Love it.


As long as the young people aren't there for Bernie.

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## HarryBrowneLives

what will matter is the anti-trump vote for us. Who galvanizes the fence sitters who are not pro anyone but anti-Trump.

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## speciallyblend

> Bad thing.
> 
> That means Rand's pledged votes from the students and such will net him a smaller % of the overall vote


not if rand paul supporters brought friends

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## HarryBrowneLives

They were talking about the GOP caucus. If Uncle Bernies bunch wants to vote for us all the better lol.

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## liberty_nc

> As long as the young people aren't there for Bernie.


 It was at a GOP caucus site, I'd say we are good

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## mit26chell

I am so anxious. Just popped a klonopin. Please Jesus be with Rand tonight!

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## HarryBrowneLives

We know that the Donald's negatives are sky high, so quite a few people are going merely to vote against Trump. At the same time, we know we are first with the under thirty crowd. Question is how many can we galvanize at these cuacus sites?

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## CPUd

> *Rick Santorum says goodbye to Iowa*
> 
> Story by Chris Moody and video by Jeremy Moorhead and Alex Lee, CNN
> 
> Updated 3:38 PM ET, Mon February 1, 2016
> 
> 
> Urbandale, Iowa (CNN)Barring a miracle, the Iowa caucuses will likely mark the end of Rick Santorum's long quest for the presidency.
> 
> ...


http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/01/politi...016/index.html

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## kbs021

Seeing a lot of younger people in that line... GOP site.

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## CPUd

The Rubio campaign just predicted a "strong 3rd" for their guy.

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## kbs021

Heard the same thing about the "anti-trump" voters. This could prove to be a good thing that we have so many precint captains.

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## Makes Interesting Points

Some sites seem to be mostly old people. Some with mostly under-40s. Not super telling at the moment.

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## HarryBrowneLives

hard to tell at this point

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## Harry96

CNN: Carson going home to Florida tonight, not to New Hampshire at all (nor any other early state), regardless of result; also planning to make a speech around 9:00 pm Central, before results will all be in. Sounds like he's done.

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## CPUd



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## Liberty74

> Yeah, thats what it sounds like to me too.  He ran an odd campaign.  Heard lots of reports of people crossing to register as republicans, both pro trump and anti trump.  Wonder if the sober candidate gathers a significant number of anti-trumps.  I dont see them going to cruz.


Fox News reported a few hours ago only 4K new Republican voters out of like 575K total Republicans in Iowa.

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## WTLaw

CNN projecting TrumpCruzRubio from exit polls

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## mit26chell

$#@!

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## 01000110

Entrance polls show slight lead for trump over Rube and Cruz ... according to fox

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## mit26chell

could cry

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## Harry96

CNN first entrance polls:

1. Trump
2. Cruz 
3. Rubio

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## HarryBrowneLives

here's where they tell us how to vote

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## Harry96

Alex Jones covering live for anyone who's interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaOWKpTNNWw

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## Cabal

> CNN first entrance polls:
> 
> 1. Trump
> 2. Cruz 
> 3. Rubio


Shocking  /s

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## bronc_fan23

They are entrance polls. Not exit polls.

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## HarryBrowneLives

last few days could help

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## AngryCanadian

What the heck.

Donald Trump leading the first votes.

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## Harry96

> here's where they tell us how to vote


Yep.

PS:

Your user name is better than mine.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Alex Jones covering live for anyone who's interested:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaOWKpTNNWw


Got this stream set up on a laptop [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mq5hrUDoYo]. Watching AJ on my desktop now. Hope it's worth it.

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## CPUd



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## Harry96

I've been cautiously optimistic at best. Un-polled young people were exactly what we hoped for with Ron's previous two campaigns, but as I recall the polls wound up being pretty accurate.

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## squirl22

> Entrance polls are pretty accurate.


Maybe for a primary, not for a caucus

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## Liberty74

> Anyone know how accurate they were in 2012? Entrance polls look kinda weird.


It nailed the top 3 in a three way tie basically with Ron at 24%. Ron ended up at 21%.

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## Harry96

> Guys, there were a lot of people being called today who were still undecided and wanted to hear the speeches before voting.


Yeah, the good news is the entrance polls probably mean less with a caucus than with a primary.

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## mit26chell

Everyone please say a prayer for Paul and his camp. This is a pivotal moment.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> Yeah, the good news is the entrance polls probably mean less with a caucus than with a primary.


Entrance polls with primaries are usually pretty damn accurate. Caucuses, not so much.

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## liveandletlive

rands a young guy, there'll be other chances.

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## HarryBrowneLives

in God's Hands now

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## HarryBrowneLives

yep

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## r3volution 3.0

CNN entrance polls, full data

http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/IA/Rep

Results among 17-44 year olds are NA for _every_ candidate - i.e. virtually none have been polled.

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## Brett85

I'm ready for the results to just start coming in.  Exit polls and entrance polls have been known to be inaccurate in the past.

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## eleganz

> I've been cautiously optimistic at best. Un-polled young people were exactly what we hoped for with Ron's previous two campaigns, but as I recall the polls wound up being pretty accurate.


Ok quit spreading misinformation, this is the first time the Iowa caucus is taking place with school in session.  The previous cycles were on winter break when the Iowa Caucus took place.

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## luctor-et-emergo

> CNN entrance polls, full data
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/IA/Rep


That's the most blatant bull$#@! ever. 2% ? NO $#@!ING WAY.

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## Chieppa1

> CNN entrance polls, full data
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/IA/Rep


No data for the young age groups.

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## JJ2

Rand only at 3% according to entrance polls. This campaign is over folks.

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## 01000110

> CNN entrance polls, full data
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/IA/Rep


ah $#@!

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## Millennial Conservatarian

Nobody under 40 are showing up on here yet

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## LatinsforPaul



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## CPUd



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## parocks

> What it say? Its not loading for me.


It said, basically, high turnout with GOP in Des Moines.

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## 01000110

> Some locations running out of ballots.


Sanders mob?

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## simon1911

> What it say? Its not loading for me.


From Jennifer Jacobs:
I'm getting reports from all over Des Moines from GOP precincts that have run out if ballots. More being printed. #iacaucus

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## HarryBrowneLives

If Carson beats us I will just DIE

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## Tywysog Cymru

I hope that the young people turned out.

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## 01000110

> From Jennifer Jacobs:
> I'm getting reports from all over Des Moines from GOP precincts that have run out if ballots. More being printed. #iacaucus


Hmm.

They've been saying a high turnout favors Trump.

Hopefully its youth vote for Rand.

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## parocks

> Sanders mob?


No, this was on the GOP side, in Des Moines.  Something like usually 300, this time 500.

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## nasaal

> Saw this on Twitter https://twitter.com/KimNorvellDMR/st...26531489796097
> 
> This is good right?


Depends.  Depends who they're there for

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## Chieppa1

Part of me hopes that CNN has no data on the young crowd because each one they ask tells them to go $#@! themselves.

But I'm sure fraud is a better answer.

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## 65fastback2+2

Polk county on c-span just had a "feel the bern" chant session smh

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## Harry96

CNN entrance poll: 21% decided whom to support within last week.

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## HarryBrowneLives

Well at least we ain't Martin Omalley

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## garyallen59



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## supermario21

Looks like Carson is primed for 4th. Rand isn't even among the top 4 of first time caucus goers.

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## 01000110

*Vincent Harris* ‏@VincentHarris  2m2 minutes agoIowa, USA
I've never heard more racial based rhetoric at a political event than what just happened at my location. We can't have a nominee like this.

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## luctor-et-emergo

>

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## 01000110

> Just shows a grey screen on my computer.


Cause Microsoft can't do a damn thing right.  Big fat bloated company.  Big fat and bloated like our government.

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## Origanalist

> Just shows a grey screen on my computer.


Cruz was on top, couldn't get it in the copy and paste

TRUMP
1,407 Votes
29.7%

RUBIO
753 Votes
15.9%

CARSON
449 Votes
9.5%

PAUL
197 Votes
4.2%

BUSH
112 Votes
2.4%

FIORINA
82 Votes
1.7%

HUCKABEE
72 Votes
1.5%

KASICH
70 Votes
1.5%

CHRISTIE
61 Votes
1.3%

SANTORUM
35 Votes
0.7%

OTHER
3 Votes
0.1%

GILMORE
0 Vot

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## abruzz0

What's even funnier, though, is seeing Bush barely getting 1%.  lmfao.

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## AngryCanadian

10 Ben Carson?
There must really stupid people.

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## bronc_fan23

> The salt here is real.
> 
> Were none of you around in '08 or remember what happened to Ron?
> 
> All the hooplah about "young voters" and "the polls are wrong" coming to bite people in the rear time after time.
> 
> Reality check, folks.  It's Trump or Cruz.


It was always going to be Trump or Cruz with Rubio third. My best hopes were Rand could get 4th, I think it's still possible tonight.

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## parocks

> Are there any counties that are expected to be Rand strongholds? So far his best is 5th, he is 5th overall, but its a distant 5th, well under half of Carson in 4th.


Colleges.

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## Dianne

> What's even funnier, though, is seeing Bush barely getting 1%.  lmfao.


I have to love that.    But you better believe he is staying in.   Rand beating all the Governors though.

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## RabbitMan

All these people here denigrating Ron's youth vote--Rand has been organizing this since his Filibuster in '13.

Nothing organized as what Rand has organized for the youth vote has been done.

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## DJH73

Trumps starting in with the wall bull$#@! again. Man these republicans have to be the stupidest people on the planet.

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## Nick From Iowa

> Colleges.


Watch Jefferson County Iowa. If Rand does poorly there, you may as well shut your computer off and step away from the Internet for a few days.

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## Natural Citizen

> The salt here is real.
> 
> Were none of you around in '08 or remember what happened to Ron?
> 
> All the hooplah about "young voters" and "the polls are wrong" coming to bite people in the rear time after time.
> 
> Reality check, folks.  It's Trump or Cruz.


If he wins here it's all downhill from there. Trump win deems the Republican Party no longer viable in my view.

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## CPUd



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## Jeffster

Huckabee is currently ahead of Bush.  We got a long way to go, folks.

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## adam220891

> If I didn't have to work tomorrow I'd be getting lit up.


I have work tomorrow. And I have a glass of rum in front of me.

I'm gonna cry.

I cannot understand it. Why isn't liberty popular?

----------


## 01000110

> I can't listen to this Trump speech on Fox any longer someone kill me


*bang*

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## 65fastback2+2

the rand speaker in boone county was mumbling and reading notes and stuttering...grrr

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## rich34

> 10 Ben Carson?
> There must really stupid people.


I second this!  Wth is wrong with people??  I wouldn't let him operate on me the man couldn't stay awake long enough...

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## RabbitMan

I'm hoping for 10%, respectable 4th place.

----------


## brandon

Looking forward to the "polls are wrong" people becoming the "vote was manipulated" people

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## 01000110

> I have work tomorrow. And I have a glass of rum in front of me.
> 
> I'm gonna cry.
> 
> I cannot understand it. Why isn't liberty popular?


Because of Liberty ISIS is going to cut off your head and steal your SS benefits... that's why.

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## otherone

> I'm sorry, but people in this country are $#@!ing brain dead


Poor old Winston was wrong then, and is wrong now:

_If there is hope  it lies with the proles"_

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## CPUd



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## CPUd



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## DJH73

Not much standing in the way of world government. Might as well just take the implant now and be done with it.

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## rg17

> Carson is the one who amazes me.   Didn't he literally fall asleep at the last debate?


Carson sleeps 24 hours a day.

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## LifeLibertyPursuit

> I tried to warn people on RPF and educate them in regards to "how to win Iowa" but all I got was hate...


Yup another divider on the RPF. I am tired of hearing people like you who only want to cause division.  So $#@!ing neg rep me but yeah $#@! off.

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## dillo

> Neither of those things is why we love Ron so much. Truth bombs.


Yea I made a thread a couple Years ago about Cruz being the controlled opposition, time for a bump

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## Origanalist

> And ISIS
> And fear mongering media.
> And Mexicans!
> 
> And the allure of a big bootiful wall, with a lavish door.
> 
> How can one compete?


I feel like puking.

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## rg17

> Hillary will be be our next president.


$#@! Hillary the war criminal!

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## MarcusI

> That's what I say.    I would really be down in the dumps if he were lower, but he's taking out Jeb, Christie and Kasich, establishment favorites.   A respectful showing.


I hope he ends up with 7% at least

----------


## WTLaw

I actually think this is good news for Rubio.

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## timosman

WTF?

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## Origanalist

> Not much standing in the way of world government. Might as well just take the implant now and be done with it.


I have my spot reserved under the bridge.

----------


## Foreigner

> Im not giving up its early, I just dont know how it can be so low.  That means less than 1/4 of rons supporters are supporting rand, I always thought rand was more punctual and a better speaker than Ron.


Dunno, but it's perhaps hard to turn people out en mass when the polls look weak.

Disappointed so far, gonna watch a bit more if he can tick up to 4th place, but ending in 5th in my mind is neither a 'respectful showing' nor does it leave any way forward for the campaign.

----------


## speciallyblend

> Hillary will be be our next president.


 yep no way i can support a gop establishment candidate and that was everyone but rand, time to start looking outside of the gop if it doesn't change drastically,

----------


## AngryCanadian

Page county is the most stupidest.
For voting Ben Carson.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

Ok, that's it. I'm buying a condo in Brazil to retire to. In a country that can vote for morons like Trump and people that don't have an opinion or personality like Carse Benson. I'm outta here in time before the SHTF.  Dead serious

----------


## tonyaustin

> Looking forward to the "polls are wrong" people becoming the "vote was manipulated" people


I think it will be something like someone formerly working for the Rubio is tasked with data reporting for the new Microsoft app that they are using to collect all the data.  Microsoft is for  open borders therefore they  are rigging the vote.




> I tried to warn people on RPF and educate them in regards to "how to win Iowa" but all I got was hate...


"They did this to themselves."  Nah, the person to blame is the leader. The supporters just followed their commanders lead of insulting tactics.  Insulting those you need to caucus is not a winning strategy.  However more likely this was due to Rand derailing his campaign around June of last year with his tax plan that included the hidden VAT in the business flat tax.

----------


## dillo

> Dunno, but it's perhaps hard to turn people out en mass when the polls look weak.
> 
> Disappointed so far, gonna watch a bit more if he can tick up to 4th place, but ending in 5th in my mind is neither a 'respectful showing' nor does it leave any way forward for the campaign.


I think we really need to break 10% to have a realistic chance going forward.

----------


## RabbitMan

Gotta. Beat. Carson.

----------


## liveandletlive

i wonder what will happen to the GOP? it seems they will never win another general election again.

----------


## speciallyblend

> $#@! Hillary the war criminal!


 seems the gop wants it, the rest of the gop field is just hillary on steroids.

----------


## Joeinmo

Well 10,000 votes counted 140,000 plus to go

----------


## 01000110

> I feel like puking.


Lay off the rum.

----------


## CPUd

> I think it will be something like someone formerly working for the Rubio is tasked with data reporting for the new Microsoft app that they are using to collect all the data.  Microsoft is for  open borders therefore they  are rigging the vote.
> 
> 
> 
> "They did this to themselves."  Nah, the person to blame is the leader. The supporters just followed their commanders lead of insulting tactics.  Insulting those you need to caucus is not a winning strategy.  However more likely this was due to Rand derailing his campaign around June of last year with his tax plan that included the hidden VAT in the business flat tax.


LOL kahless is that you?

----------


## LatinsforPaul



----------


## CPUd

> A fair question would be what counties have been counted.  How many votes are left in the big student areas?


Most or all of the big ones are still out.

----------


## 01000110

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...o-oppose-trump




> *Koch brothers network ready to oppose Trump*

----------


## Millennial Conservatarian

seig heil to your next president gasman (or woman), bombs away will be your punishment

----------


## AngryCanadian

I cant believe idiots are voting for idiot Ben Carson.
Still lost for words how anyone could vote for a Canadian lol

----------


## supermario21

The truth is our issues aren't appealing to the base. They want action, whether it be tough talk and action against ISIS, a border wall, etc. There's a reason why the top 4 candidates arguably offer nothing but personal qualities. Trump is the bomb-thrower populist, Cruz the self-proclaimed conservative fighter doling out read meat, Rubio the robotic neocon with his programmed statements, Carson the soft-spoken evangelical.

Rand and Jeb! arguably offer the most in terms of substance (different blends, yes, but arguably the wonkiest) and they have just been steamrolled by bluster. It's unfortunate, but there is nothing that can be done about it.

----------


## euphemia

> People here are over reacting; only 19% precincts reporting...long way to go


And did anyone notice that the very high turnout has found some sites wholly unprepared.  Not enough registration forms, and not enough ballots.  How can they let this happen?

----------


## CPUd

> People here are over reacting; only 19% precincts reporting...long way to go


Most of them are concern trolling like they have been since 2012.

----------


## The Gold Standard

> I'm with Rand to the bitter end.  Then I'll support Cruz. Then I'll support any Republican over Dem.
> 
> I'll support anyone over Bernie.  My worst case scenario is Trump v Bernie and trump does something stupid to let Bernie win.  He's the anti Liberty.


Cruz is the scum of the Earth and doesn't have a hope in hell of winning a general election. You'll be feeling the Bern. I'll be looking into agorism.

----------


## groverblue

what counties should we pay attention to?

----------


## ProBlue33

The only thing I am happy about is that Paul will beat Bush

----------


## moraha

Cruz completely $#@!ed Paul over...extremely pissed right now. I know it's still early, but I didn't expect the polls to be as accurate as the current numbers are showing.

----------


## LatinsforPaul



----------


## rich34

> I hate Cruz.


Yeah narcissist A$$..   Stealing Rand's voters with Goldman Sachs money!  That's why Rand needs to question his own approach and look more towards Ron's.  I agree the ideas are the same, but obviously Ron does or says something that gets more people fired up!!    This isn't Rand's fault it's the ideas stupid ignorant people that attend this $#@!..

----------


## Dianne

> I think 4th place isnt possible anymore, sry :/. At least its 5th place and Bush is behind. Thats all.


FOX is saying Bush still has 59 million in his war chest.    It's probably the advantage of robbing the taxpayers blind, giving taxpayer money to banksters and other criminals; them those criminals return the money to your campaign.    Much like the Planned Parenthood deal...   We give them millions, they endorse Obama and now Clinton, and donate the millions we gave them to the Obama or Clinton campaign.   One big Pyramid scheme.

----------


## Nye

> I see the dark horse candidate Jim Gilmore has 2 votes.  Keep an eye on that one!


Who is Jim Gilmore?!  Kidding

----------


## EBounding

> Ron Paul got 20% here 4 years ago so it's more than just the issues.


So did Santorum

----------


## newbitech

Trump a proud nationalist, Sanders a proud socialist.  Country is making a strong lurch towards Nazism.  I'm sure we'll get some new name for it, Ron called it crony capitalism.  It's fascism on freaking steroids.

Unsustainable debt, war machine stretched too thin, unorganized populace with no direction.  Country is primed for invasion and it has the moral mud pit to climb out of.  

Scary times.  2007-2008 looked like a picnic compared to whats coming I'm afraid.  

Only positive in the last 10 years, looks like the drug war is winding down.  Not fast enough obviously.  

Hitting the snooze button again this election cycle.  Way to go United States of America!

----------


## rg17

> Trump and Sanders pulling down massive support.  Any which way you slice it, it seems like the more cold hard truths brought into the light, the darker this country gets.  
> 
> Sick!


They stole Rands voters!

----------


## 01000110

> You've got to be freakin' kidding me. In a "very fiscally conservative" area's caucus site, RUBIO wins and Paul gets like 4%. Rubio is one of the least fiscally conservative candidates. Paul, the only true fiscal conservative running does poorly??? What is the IQ of Iowa voters??? Do they even care??? Sorry I don't usually go after things like people's IQ, but what I mean is...it's like nobody is even trying to save the country.


Rubio will make the country safe and undo everything that Obama did.  And he'll make the military bigger strong faster with bigger bombs.  Unfortunately people want blood more than liberty.

----------


## Dianne

> Will 5th kill any chance of momentum in New Hampshire?


I don't think so.    I want Rand to continue.   He has a nice notch on his belt, having slain a Bush.

----------


## CPUd

> Will 5th kill any chance of momentum in New Hampshire?


He needs to at least beat Carson to get any decent press.  But coming in ahead of Bush will get some mentions.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Hillary has won Iowa.



Her and Bern both end up with 15 delegates so far, it's also only at 53% still too soon to call this one.

----------


## mczerone

For comparison to Ron's 2012 results by county:

http://americamagazine.org/sites/def...owaslide07.jpg

----------


## Joeinmo

I'm not seeing evidence that caucus numbers will be too much bigger than in 2012, I'm comparing right now

----------


## parocks

> I have put my blood sweat and tears into this as some on this board could give a $#@!. I am going to get neg rep, that's fine because I know where my heart is. Talking to GOP voters there is no hope. I fell like it is all for not. I have put all my savings into the campaign, I am battling medical bills from a car crash that someone hit me. Yes I am mad and it's my right to vent. I feel like fool's gold. It's like no one cares.


I'm probably older than you.  Many here have done something similar to what you're doing in 08 or 12.  I kicked in $ today, first of the cycle and the biggest single contribution I ever gave.  But, my level of caring just isn't where it was in 08 and 12.  

Things in this country are $#@!tier than ever before, and each day is the worst day yet.  So, within this context, do we see wins?  No, we really don't.  We didn't in 08 or in 12 and it's not looking so good right now for 16.  My ability to tolerate politicians isn't going up, it's going down.  
is
I'm watching Fox News and Karl Rove is there on TV.  The world would be a better place if Rove was dead.  But he isn't.  Many people are moving toward "fk it" not away from that position.  And some of us aren't moving toward the "more freedom" position, and are moving toward, "dig a hole and wait for the end, it's just going to be awful."  So, I kicked in good money today by my standards.  But most of these people (Rove) make me sick.  And if politics is like a horse race or something, people wouldn't be watching horse races if every single horse but one made you sick, and everyone talking about the horses make you sick.  The people in charge are awful.  Ideally, they're getting their heads chopped off, but that's not happening, not on the horizon.

Given all this, you might be seeing some gallows humor if things don't go right.  On the bright side, there are more candidates below Rand than above him, and NH seems to be a good place for Rand, I suppose.  It's not like we live in the world that these wretched TV creatures pretend we live in.  It's rigged.  The human trash that control things don't want Rand.  Within that context, Rand is doing a fine job.

----------


## 01000110

> They eat GMO corn and hump pigs, what do you expect?


You mean the sheeple don't hump sheep?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> They stole Rands voters!


The media did that.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Trump a proud nationalist, Sanders a proud socialist.  Country is making a strong lurch towards Nazism.  I'm sure we'll get some new name for it, Ron called it crony capitalism.  It's fascism on freaking steroids.
> 
> Unsustainable debt, war machine stretched too thin, unorganized populace with no direction.  Country is primed for invasion and it has the moral mud pit to climb out of.  
> 
> Scary times.  2007-2008 looked like a picnic compared to whats coming I'm afraid.  
> 
> Only positive in the last 10 years, looks like the drug war is winding down.  Not fast enough obviously.  
> 
> Hitting the snooze button again this election cycle.  Way to go United States of America!


this *should* be obvious. It won't be.

----------


## 69360

> Count Chocula Cruz will NEVER. I repeat NEVER win the general.


Actually he is beating Clinton in general election matchup polling. But Sanders is beating him.

----------


## otherone

> Because sheep are stupid.


BECAUSE TEEVEE TELLS THEM RAND DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE

----------


## supermario21

The caucuses are basically an interest group for the Renewable Fuel Standard and evangelicals, whom I have nothing against. I'm just baffled at how Carson has supporters at all. His debate performances are sad, and I like the man and think he's brilliant and intellectually so gifted as a surgeon.

----------


## TER

The white, Evangelical, Israel firsters in Iowa have spoken.  There is a reason why this tradition of Iowa going first has been maintained.

----------


## speciallyblend

not looking good

----------


## Dianne

> Rubio will make the country safe and undo everything that Obama did.  And he'll make the military bigger strong faster with bigger bombs.  Unfortunately people want blood more than liberty.


Rubio won't do $#@!.   He'll play golf everyday, like Obama, and whore around.   He has the worst voting record of any other Senator in history.    He is on Government welfare; i.e., you and I.    He collects a salary and doesn't go to work because he says he does not like his job in the Senate, so wants to be President instead.

I would have to say Carson is more dependable than Rubio.

----------


## Joeinmo

> For comparison to Ron's 2012 results by county:
> 
> http://americamagazine.org/sites/def...owaslide07.jpg



interesting looks like Cruz picking up Santorum counties and Trump - Romney counties from 2012

----------


## timosman

> Honestly I'm beginning to think those corn-suckers have IQ's in the single digits.


Do not blame corn. Other states are even worse.

----------


## phill4paul

> 'Murikans hate the Constitution. 'Specially 'Publican 'Murikans.


  Yeah. I'm about done with it. Give them the president they deserve and let it go to rock bottom so that it can be rebuilt again. Cruz, Trump, Bernie or Hillary should do it within 4 years.

----------


## misterx

> Will 5th kill any chance of momentum in New Hampshire?


I'm surprised anyone actually still thought Rand had a shot going into tonight. The only three who have any shot at all are Trump, Cruz, and Rubio.

----------


## Todd

> Good synopsis. Add in that there is roughly 1/3rd of the old, crusty, white rural people who want nothing more than a big government that will do nothing more than provide their SS and Medicare, bomb all Moooslim countries and get rid of those damn Mexicans. If Rand would have said Moooslim and Mexican every other sentence really pissed off every other sentence we would have won in a Randslide ...without my vote of course.


Unfortunately that seems to be the name of the game. Lie lie lie until you get there.....and then do what the hell you want to do.

----------


## DJH73

Its gonna be a fun future.

----------


## euphemia

> I'm surprised anyone actually still thought Rand had a shot going into tonight. The only three who have any shot at all are Trump, Cruz, and Rubio.


None of them have a majority of anything.

----------


## Dianne

What I'm most concerned about right now, is Jeb Bush creeping up on Rand.   Rand 4%, Jeb 3%.    Do you think microsoft is tampering with the results?    After all, that's who Hillary wants to run against, Jeb.   Jeb has already said all of Bill's rapes are off the table.

----------


## Koobs

It turns out Rands only voters are students.

----------


## maxoutco

So, from what I understood is that Paul had the following:
1,000 Precinct Chairs (Will try to bring people)
10,000 Devoted

I would assume we have more than that, but how much more?  Why did Rand do so poorly in the smaller districts?

----------


## FrancisMarion

Is it looking that bad?

----------


## newbitech

> They stole Rands voters!


The reality is, Rand's voters are outnumbered.

----------


## supermario21

Guys, Microsoft is not tampering with anything. We don't need to sound as kooky as the Sanders people FFS.

----------


## RabbitMan

> What I'm most concerned about right now, is Jeb Bush creeping up on Rand.   Rand 4%, Jeb 3%.    Do you think microsoft is tampering with the results?    After all, that's who Hillary wants to run against, Jeb.   Jeb has already said all of Bill's rapes are off the table.


No.  Just no.

----------


## Influenza

> Will 5th kill any chance of momentum in New Hampshire?


Even 4th would have probably killed momentum. What's the expectations for NH now? Kasich, Bush, and Christie should be doing a bit better there. Rand should probably drop out if he doesn't get top 3 in any of the first 5 states.

----------


## Mr.NoSmile

> I would assume we have more than that, but how much more?  Why did Rand do so poorly in the smaller districts?


You can't hit everywhere at every time.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

Unfortunately, If we can't even top Carson with these dumb ass people we're done folks. I'll be PAUL OR NOTHING to the end as I was in 08 and 12 with $$$ and activism. That said, Viva Brazil! ...and will watch the SHTF from the beach (Lord Willing) in the years to come.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> So, from what I understood is that Paul had the following:
> 1,000 Precinct Chairs (Will try to bring people)
> 10,000 Devoted
> 
> I would assume we have more than that, but how much more?  Why did Rand do so poorly in the smaller districts?



Because people didn't want to put up with what their neighbors thought about them for picking Rand. I swear Iowa needs to be done away with, that place is $#@!ing worthless.

----------


## SilentBull

I should have known this would be the result. The campaign didn't have the money to run a good campaign because of the morons that were fooled by Trump and Cruz. And the fact that apparently a bunch of the Ron Paul voters never really understood what liberty was about. Just a bunch of rebel idiots.

Since the beginning I was saying that one of the Super PACs needed to focus on the older voters. I never felt comfortable with this strategy of getting only the young people.

----------


## Brett85

> I bet you feel better gloating, shut your dirty whore mouth you cock sucking supporter of either Trump or Cruz. So yeah $#@! off


Wow.  No way should you be allowed to post here.

----------


## adam220891

> Is it looking that bad?


We will be lucky to place 4th.

----------


## CPUd

> What I'm most concerned about right now, is Jeb Bush creeping up on Rand.   Rand 4%, Jeb 3%.    Do you think microsoft is tampering with the results?    After all, that's who Hillary wants to run against, Jeb.   Jeb has already said all of Bill's rapes are off the table.


I doubt it.  Ballots are paper, hand counted and verified by observers when they get entered in the system.

----------


## liveandletlive

i think we need a hardcore evangelical liberty candidate to put us over the top.

----------


## Paulfan05

Where are these 10k college pledges?

----------


## parocks

> Trump a proud nationalist, Sanders a proud socialist.  Country is making a strong lurch towards Nazism.  I'm sure we'll get some new name for it, Ron called it crony capitalism.  It's fascism on freaking steroids.
> 
> Unsustainable debt, war machine stretched too thin, unorganized populace with no direction.  Country is primed for invasion and it has the moral mud pit to climb out of.  
> 
> Scary times.  2007-2008 looked like a picnic compared to whats coming I'm afraid.  
> 
> Only positive in the last 10 years, looks like the drug war is winding down.  Not fast enough obviously.  
> 
> Hitting the snooze button again this election cycle.  Way to go United States of America!


I've been hitting the snooze a lot.  Did put some $ in.

----------


## clint4liberty

4% or 2,986

----------


## Constitutionally Inclined

its hard to watch tv..

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> I'm probably older than you.  Many here have done something similar to what you're doing in 08 or 12.  I kicked in $ today, first of the cycle and the biggest single contribution I ever gave.  But, my level of caring just isn't where it was in 08 and 12.  
> 
> Things in this country are $#@!tier than ever before, and each day is the worst day yet.  So, within this context, do we see wins?  No, we really don't.  We didn't in 08 or in 12 and it's not looking so good right now for 16.  My ability to tolerate politicians isn't going up, it's going down.  
> is
> I'm watching Fox News and Karl Rove is there on TV.  The world would be a better place if Rove was dead.  But he isn't.  Many people are moving toward "fk it" not away from that position.  And some of us aren't moving toward the "more freedom" position, and are moving toward, "dig a hole and wait for the end, it's just going to be awful."  So, I kicked in good money today by my standards.  But most of these people (Rove) make me sick.  And if politics is like a horse race or something, people wouldn't be watching horse races if every single horse but one made you sick, and everyone talking about the horses make you sick.  The people in charge are awful.  Ideally, they're getting their heads chopped off, but that's not happening, not on the horizon.
> 
> Given all this, you might be seeing some gallows humor if things don't go right.  On the bright side, there are more candidates below Rand than above him, and NH seems to be a good place for Rand, I suppose.  It's not like we live in the world that these wretched TV creatures pretend we live in.  It's rigged.  The human trash that control things don't want Rand.  Within that context, Rand is doing a fine job.



Yep - same thoughts here.  I am basically in the mode of building up my ranch to move to within the next 5 years.  The USA is going to $#@!. I give it another 8 years before extreme riots and poverty.  We are on a fiscal policy collapse.  China and Russia will end our petro dollar.

----------


## Joeinmo

Don't forget to stay after the caucus is over and pick up delegates

----------


## SilentBull

> Even 4th would have probably killed momentum. What's the expectations for NH now? Kasich, Bush, and Christie should be doing a bit better there. Rand should probably drop out if he doesn't get top 3 in any of the first 5 states.


Forget New Hampshire. If Rand can't get top 4 in Iowa, he'll be last in NH out of the candidates that are left. This country is $#@!ing done son!

----------


## EBounding

4th could keep Rand in the conversation/debates especially if Trump loses Iowa.  But I suspect Carson will drop out and endorse Rubio, and Rubio will go on to win the next primary.

----------


## clint4liberty

3,394 votes- so what happened to the students?

----------


## tonyaustin

> I think I'll go watch the latest X files $#@!ing episode. $#@! this $#@!! $#@! the people! I hope they get $#@!ed in their ass hole when the economy collapses.


From what I saw of tonights episode it was stupid.

----------


## Thor

> Where are these 10k college pledges?


Getting drunk...  Trump threw them a kegger.

----------


## timosman

> I think I'll go watch the latest X files $#@!ing episode. $#@! this $#@!! $#@! the people! I hope they get $#@!ed in their ass hole when the economy collapses.


Lucifer is good too. Right after X-Files.

----------


## iNoob

Sad day

----------


## LifeLibertyPursuit

I just turned 28, well tomorrow, and this is the first election cycle that I am highly involved.  I have grown attached and I blew up on the board, I apologize. I just can't stand people who do not try and point their finger and say ah ha I told you that your efforts are futile. I apologize to all on this forum.

----------


## supermario21

> I should have known this would be the result. The campaign didn't have the money to run a good campaign because of the morons that were fooled by Trump and Cruz. And the fact that apparently a bunch of the Ron Paul voters never really understood what liberty was about. Just a bunch of rebel idiots.
> 
> Since the beginning I was saying that one of the Super PACs needed to focus on the older voters. I never felt comfortable with this strategy of getting only the young people.


Great points. We probably lost  lot of soft support to Trump (the conspiracy theorists/NWO types), Carson (evangelicals/home schoolers), and Cruz (those claiming to be very conservative but likely more hawkish).

Rand was smart to figure out that the message needed to be changed up, it's just that he either misfired or more likely didn't fire enough. There was no room for nuance or substance in this primary.

----------


## 01000110

Rubio is inching upwards

----------


## CPUd



----------


## 01000110

> What about those 10 k students and the polls were wrong lol.


Come on man, rubbing salt in the wound...

----------


## 69360

> Rand won't drop out after tonight though right?


I would guess he drops out after NH.

----------


## SilentBull

Thinking about creating my own $#@!ing Super PAC. Its whole $#@!ing purpose is gonna be to bring all the $#@!ing networks down.

----------


## Valli6

> I'm surprised anyone actually still thought Rand had a shot going into tonight. The only three who have any shot at all are Trump, Cruz, and Rubio.


Oh, shut-up.

----------


## liberty_nc

We better hit 10k

----------


## Dianne

> Rand Paul endorsing McConnell and others was his death knell.  The Paul campaign should have flat out said McConnell controls the state gop in KY.  He is being punished because less than 200 people decide the rules of over 1.2 million registered gop voters.


Frankly, I have never forgiven Rand for doing that.   His father never would have compromised his principles in that way.   However, he is still the best candidate on the market, so I stand with Rand.

----------


## Constitutionally Inclined

i can't believe cruz has tricked this many people

----------


## 65fastback2+2

I guess I thought we'd do better because I figured people were actually tired of $19 trillion in debt.

Appears they just dont frickin care, actually.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> i can't believe cruz has tricked this many people


Why not he tricked a bunch of Americans into thinking he wasn't Canadian. We all know the truth there.

----------


## SilentBull

> Lucifer is good too. Right after X-Files.


Is it?? $#@! it I'll check that $#@! out too.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

Just saw the "I'm an Energy Voter" ad on CNN. I think "I'm a Beer Voter" LOL beer break

----------


## phill4paul

> We better hit 10k


  Doubt it. 4k w/ 50% reporting.

----------


## CPUd



----------


## rich34

> I have work tomorrow. And I have a glass of rum in front of me.
> 
> I'm gonna cry.
> 
> I cannot understand it. Why isn't liberty popular?



You and me both!  I've done drank what I've had and am wondering the same thing...

----------


## Dr.3D

> Your always welcomed in Canada and we have  a better health care 
> Yes and its free.


Somebody's gotta pay for it.

----------


## SilentBull

The source of the problem is that with Ron we thought we actually found a subset of the population that understood liberty. The truth is that those who understand liberty are the minority of the minority. There is no "Ron Paul" base. A bunch of those people were just rebel morons who wanted to go against the grain.

I feel bad for Rand. He's worked so freaking hard

----------


## MarcusI

There is never a reason to give up liberty, remember that.

----------


## Krugminator2

> It is effective as long as it appears as a small percentage of your  strategy rather than your entire campaign sounding like you are the  candidate appealing solely to "college kids" and minorities.  Meanwhile  the average pissed off white male is thinking this guy represents me about  as much as Hillary Clinton.



That is probably closer to reality than anything. His supporting a VAT was zero percent of the problem. For instance, Cruz has a VAT in his plan as well and he is doing fine. Rubio has a tax plan loaded with tax credits and he is doing okay. The VAT was the least of the problem.

----------


## Joeinmo

They just called it for Cruz

----------


## 69360

I wonder if Rubio will catch up to Trump?

----------


## Peace&Freedom

Still premature to call it taps for Rand yet (I remember Paul looking very strong and in first place in the early IA results in 2012, then his numbers dropped to 21%), but it doesn't look so good so far. Perhaps in future cycles, we should consider fielding a liberty candidate who can win nationally, but who hails from Iowa or NH, so we can count on a favorite son victory in at least one early state. 

Right now NH is the better bet for that strategy, meaning, we should just skip Iowa like many of the candidates have, and concentrate on the Free State Project State going forward. Otherwise, it may be too much wasted effort trying to win Iowa, a state apparently too predictably resistant to a liberty understanding.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> There is never a reason to give up liberty, remember that.


QFT

+rep

----------


## Tywysog Cymru

Trump's supporters online are blaming "Evangicucks."

----------


## adam220891

> You and me both!  I've done drank what I've had and am wondering the same thing...


Moved on to whiskey.

FML

----------


## liveandletlive

> Trump's supporters online are blaming "Evangicucks."


LOL.......

----------


## timosman

> I guess I thought we'd do better because I figured people were actually tired of $19 trillion in debt.
> 
> Appears they just dont frickin care, actually.


Stop acting surprised. Did you just arrive on this planet?

----------


## CPUd

> blarg blarg


This is an election forum for supporters of Rand's campaign.  Your post would be better served in the political philosophy forum.

----------


## adam220891

Bull$#@! Microsoft thing stopped working for me. wtf

$#@! this

----------


## timosman

Eminent domain!

----------


## CaptUSA

> The source of the problem is that with Ron we thought we actually found a subset of the population that understood liberty. The truth is that those who understand liberty are the minority of the minority. There is no "Ron Paul" base. A bunch of those people were just rebel morons who wanted to go against the grain.
> 
> I feel bad for Rand. He's worked so freaking hard


Yep.  See my sig line.  Voltaire was no dummy.

----------


## Dianne

> The source of the problem is that with Ron we thought we actually found a subset of the population that understood liberty. The truth is that those who understand liberty are the minority of the minority. There is no "Ron Paul" base. A bunch of those people were just rebel morons who wanted to go against the grain.
> 
> I feel bad for Rand. He's worked so freaking hard


I agree with you about that.   He has worked hard, and he deserves to win this and future primaries.  The crummy thing is he has not been able to put together a following as Ron did.

----------


## PursuePeace

Ugh. 
Just... ugh.
Brain can't even come up with the words.

----------


## misterx

> The reality is, Rand's voters are outnumbered.


And delusional, to be honest. Tonight should not have been a surprise to anyone. Yet people will still be surprised when Rand loses NH too.

----------


## Thor

> They eat GMO corn and hump pigs, what do you expect?


Iowans:

----------


## euphemia

Again, nobody has a majority of the vote, and there are some people who have supporters who would not vote for Trump, Cruz, or Rubio.

----------


## mit26chell

Disappointed in all of the people who pledged to go and didn't, if there were any.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

> I don't think it's that cold. I think they named it Iceland so people wouldn't consider moving to it. Srs.
> 
> I've been drinking though.
> 
> I hate politics.


I wouldn't mind Iceland, but my wife is from Brazil. = Divorce court lol.

----------


## Fivezeroes

This $#@! is insane, Rand hasn't moved since it was at 40% of the precincts reporting. Yet Marco Polo Rubio is steadly climbing, has climbed 7%, give me a freaking break. Iowa going first needs to stop.

----------


## misterx

> Bull$#@! Microsoft thing stopped working for me. wtf
> 
> $#@! this


http://www.nytimes.com/?WT.z_jog=1&hF=t&vS=undefined

----------


## ALibertarianInNewYork

> Moved on to whiskey.
> 
> FML


Same here. I'm very sad. Flashbacks to 2008 and 2012.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

> Iowans:


That was kansas actually but same thing

----------


## tonyaustin

> That is probably closer to reality than anything. His supporting a VAT was zero percent of the problem. For instance, Cruz has a VAT in his plan as well and he is doing fine. Rubio has a tax plan loaded with tax credits and he is doing okay. The VAT was the least of the problem.


The difference is Rand had a base of support that is quite different from the Cruz - Foxnews viewer type of support that are more ignorant and less likely to pay attention to such things.

Rand had a pretty hard core base that came over from Ron.  It was fractured a bit due to some issues like foreign policy which I think people were being unfair to Rand. But people were still hanging in there up until around the time he released his tax plan.  It is not the sole factor, just saying one of many.

----------


## mello

I don't get it. Rand has over 1,000 precinct captains & 10,000 students pledged to caucus for him. How can he only have 4,663 votes so far?

PS: Who the $#@! is voting for Carson? That dude literally acted like he was shot with a tranquilizer dart at each debate.

----------


## Foreigner

Rubio just won the establishment primary. Cruz and Trump are going to battle it out for a while... The party is gonna find a way to nominate Rubio.

----------


## euphemia

> Your always welcomed in Canada and we have  a better health care 
> Yes and its free.


How long do you have to wait for a mammogram?  I have a close friend in Alberta who had to wait 6 months for a simple blood test for thyroid levels.  I have one every three months.  Go figure.

----------


## 65fastback2+2

> Stop acting surprised. Did you just arrive on this planet?


in a general, no, i wouldnt be surprised.

in a primary, ya, im a little surprised.

every GOP voter rambles on about how obama has doubled the debt...and then goes and votes for someone still adding to the debt. ya, thats surprising.

----------


## parocks

> Yep - same thoughts here.  I am basically in the mode of building up my ranch to move to within the next 5 years.  The USA is going to $#@!. I give it another 8 years before extreme riots and poverty.  We are on a fiscal policy collapse.  China and Russia will end our petro dollar.


Extreme riots and poverty are the best case scenario.  Keeping going in the same direction we're going is the worst case scenario.  Whatever it is, it's bad.  And the thing is, liberty is the best way to run the country, but liberty really isn't the solution to our particular problems right now. he bad

The bad guys are in charge.  So, we get a ideal President, a Paul, and we get the least amount of government we'd possibly get.  Government is still there.  And the bad guys are still in charge.  Finding the bad guys and chopping their heads off.  And I know that's not Libertarian, and I'm not here all the time talking this.  We're just screwed.  Every days things are getting worse, and the likelihood of me voting the in the future, keeps going down.  There's no optimism or hope, just a dwindling vestigal sense of duty or something, I don't know exactly what it might be.  But it's not vote for someone who will make this country better.  The people in charge, who really are just awful, evil people, very much like how things are going, and are not interested in anything different, and it hasn't been set up at all to allow that to happen. 

Now, maybe Rand really crushed it at the colleges and the universities.  In which case, hooray, something something happy.  It would be nice to be able to point to some crushing it, somewhere in Iowa at some caucuses.  At least they can go and learn what it took to crush it there.  Maybe they're on it and they're crushing it.

----------


## Millennial Conservatarian

> PS: Who the $#@! is voting for Carson? That dude literally acted like he was shot with a tranquilizer dart at each debate.


Same question I've been asking myself all night

Again, I want to push many grannys off a cliff

----------


## Mr.NoSmile

> Disappointed in all of the people who pledged to go and didn't, if there were any.


You're disappointed in something or someone when you don't even know their decision?

----------


## WTLaw

> There is never a reason to give up liberty, remember that.





> I don't get it. Rand has over 1,000 precinct captains & 10,000 students pledged to caucus for him. How can he only have 4,663 votes so far?
> 
> PS: Who the $#@! is voting for Carson? That dude literally acted like he was shot with a tranquilizer dart at each debate.


People who share his values.  Identity politics is big on the right too.

----------


## tonyaustin

> Trump's supporters online are blaming "Evangicucks."


LMAO.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> I cannot understand it. Why isn't liberty popular?


The people are _very_ stupid.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> I don't think it's that cold. I think they named it Iceland so people wouldn't consider moving to it. Srs.
> 
> I've been drinking though.
> 
> I hate politics.


It doesn't get majorly cold there. It's just below freezing more than half of the year. 

Still, it's pretty nice country there, lots of space. Lots of opportunities for hiking, fishing, off-roading. There's hot-springs that you can bathe in.. These people are rugged individuals.

----------


## Joeinmo

I Dubuque County Ron received 600 plus votes, Rand is at 32 votes.  Doesn't make sense

----------


## CPUd



----------


## The Gold Standard

> It doesn't get majorly cold there. It's just below freezing more than half of the year. 
> 
> Still, it's pretty nice country there, lots of space. Lots of opportunities for hiking, fishing, off-roading. There's hot-springs that you can bathe in.. These people are rugged individuals.


Let's round up a few thousand anarchists and set sail. We would have to figure out how to get our guns in, assuming they don't allow that sort of thing there.

----------


## misterx

> Yeah, I don't blame Rand at all.  I am glad to support him as I best align with his views.


I do. He wimped out and paid for it. His father isn't afraid to tell it like it is, and doesn't care how much he gets attacked for it. Rand often tries to walk the establishment line. His consultants should never work in politics again.

----------


## Mike4Freedom

> We may not be popular, but I take solace in the fact that we're right.


The silver lining to this is they can take our money, they can take our lives. They will never have our loyalty. They will never have our respect. They will never have our minds. 

My mind is free. Everyday I thank God for that. 

I could not imagine the pitiful existence that being a brainwashed fool would be like. Someone that goes out and votes for someone that is opposite of their own personal interest. 

So, I say again! Our minds our free. That is where our freedom lies. Rejoice in that,

----------


## CPUd



----------


## adam220891

> Let's round up a few thousand anarchists and set sail. We would have to figure out how to get our guns in, assuming they don't allow that sort of thing there.


All aboard, captain.

----------


## ssunlimited

> If he dropped out, who the hell is he going to endorse?  lol...


Maybe endorse third party Gary Johnson candidate?

----------


## SilentBull

> People of this country also being many members of this forum, Lew Rockwell, Thomas Woods, etc. who believed Rand didn't pass their purity test.


Absolutely agree! Alex Jones, Lew Rockwell, Tom Woods, Michael Scheuer...A big $#@! YOU from me you get.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> When will the rand sycophants in this forum stop placing blame where it doesn't belong, i.e., the dumb voters of Iowa and the media? The sad truth is that Rand has run a weak and uninspired campaign. He had the legacy of his father to build upon and shunned it from day one. This forum is a shell of what it once was. If that's not a microcosm of Rand's failure, I don't know what is. He only has himself to blame.


Are you kidding?  The RPF mafia would have driven them out in 2 days flat.  Haven't you been watching?  Not to mention a number of members of this forum who didn't like Rand because he didn't pass their purity test.  So, if you're looking for people who behave like dumbasses, go look in the mirror.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Absolutely agree! Alex Jones, Lew Rockwell, Tom Woods, Michael Scheuer...A big $#@! YOU from me you get. They're a big part of why this failed.


Nah, most of America hasn't even heard of them.  They are only big deals in the tiny libertarian/libertine world.

----------


## 69360

At least that $#@! Trump lost. I'm happy about that.

----------


## freedom-maniac

How is Rand doing WORSE than the pre-caucus polls?

----------


## Foreigner

> If he dropped out, who the hell is he going to endorse?  lol...


I don't know any that would be good...

Cruz would be the best on policy - but that slimebag will lose for sure in the general. Which means there will be another 20 years + before the republicans dare to nominate a 'conservative candidate' again.

----------


## Mad Raven

Well, Rand did better than any other libertarian leaning person in the whole country did this cycle. He got himself out there with enough support to be in the race, which is more than can be said for anyone else. I would support him again, but I told myself if he didn't get 15% in IA then I was going to give up, so that's it for me for now. Anyone else who is still going to work or donate anyway, I admire your perseverance.

----------


## CPUd

> When will the rand sycophants in this forum stop placing blame where it doesn't belong, i.e., the dumb voters of Iowa and the media? The sad truth is that Rand has run a weak and uninspired campaign. He had the legacy of his father to build upon and shunned it from day one. This forum is a shell of what it once was. If that's not a microcosm of Rand's failure, I don't know what is. He only has himself to blame.


I've got no problem with how Rand is running his campaign, especially the last few days.  This is the support forum for Rand's campaign, you should be ashamed of yourself for coming in here and $#@!ting on it when the campaign has a bad day.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Which means no one ever had any say so to begin with as the people behind the curtains are the ones pulling the strings.


Of course.  It's been like that for a very long time.  The only way to beat them is to overwhelm them with numbers.  It's been that way since before Goldwater won the Republican nomination in the 60s.

----------


## craezie

> So... who's moving to NH with me then?


New Hampshire, Iceland. . .can someone please pick somewhere that ISN'T F'ING COLD?!?

----------


## jth_ttu

This won't sit well with many people but I feel like he should endorse Cruz if he can get a VP Slot. It could set him up for Pres in the future. The only way I would vote for Cruz is if Rand was VP

----------


## bronc_fan23

The two biggest variables were Cruz and Trump, a race without those two would look entirely different for Rand. I think Trump was the biggest variable, while Cruz blurred the lines between establishment and the liberty movement. 

If any of you thought all of the Ron Paul voters were purists like yourselves in 2012, you're kidding yourself. To say it would have been as simple as Rand being a carbon copy of Ron and then he would have gotten 21% in Iowa, you're also kidding yourselves.

----------


## Paulfan05

Im hoping those college kid areas didnt report yet! 10k students come on already!

----------


## parocks

>

----------


## JenH88

> The source of the problem is that with Ron we thought we actually found a subset of the population that understood liberty. The truth is that those who understand liberty are the minority of the minority. There is no "Ron Paul" base. A bunch of those people were just rebel morons who wanted to go against the grain.
> 
> I feel bad for Rand. He's worked so freaking hard


THIS. have been realizing this over the past year or so... 

its shocking how many friends from RP 08 & 12 who flipped on Rand and now are anarchists or pro Trump, Cruz, or SANDERS. 

most got pessimistic and started cheering for the world to burn. SMH. im heavily doubting the rationality/sustainability of the "RPbase" as well. my heart aches for the old days of refreshing RPgraphs. <sigh>

----------


## tamtamforfreedom

Right on!! Ode to Iowa non-liberty voters....
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
― Samuel Adams

----------


## Cleaner44

The only smart thing the voters of Iowa did was soundly reject Bush.

----------


## mac_hine

> I've got no problem with how Rand is running his campaign, especially the last few days.  This is the support forum for Rand's campaign, you should be ashamed of yourself for coming in here and $#@!ting on it when the campaign has a bad day.


The campaign has sucked from day one. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone.

----------


## Dianne

There are 12 in the race, and Rand finishes at 5.   He is in the top 50%, so let's stop being "debbie downers".

----------


## fatjohn

> At least that $#@! Trump lost. I'm happy about that.


Lol against a shill for goldman sachs. I think ted is by far the worst candidate.

----------


## SilentBull

> When will the rand sycophants in this forum stop placing blame where it doesn't belong, i.e., the dumb voters of Iowa and the media? The sad truth is that Rand has run a weak and uninspired campaign. He had the legacy of his father to build upon and shunned it from day one. This forum is a shell of what it once was. If that's not a microcosm of Rand's failure, I don't know what is. He only has himself to blame.


This isn't Rand's fault at all. Many of the Ron Paul voters never understood the Fed. They're probably too $#@!ing dumb to understand it. They just wanted to be part of something; to be against the establishment. Well now they had plenty of places to go.  Don't blame Rand. He did the best he could.

I started realizing this a while ago, when some people I met when I was a delegate in 2008, started supporting single player health care.

----------


## MarcusI

> I wouldn't go that far.  I still plan to vote for Rand for 1 reason.  I promised I would.  I know he won't win, but I also know I voted for the best candidate.


I would do the same if I would be US citizen, no matter what.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> There are 12 in the race, and Rand finishes at 5.   He is in the top 50%, so let's stop being "debbie downers".


This. Think of Mccain in 07'.

----------


## The Gold Standard

> Would never happen. If Cruz got the nomination he would have to consolidate with the establishment, the VP pick would surely be an establishment type.


Like who? His wife? No one is more "establishment" than Ted Cruz.

----------


## limequat

Chin up guys.  

We may have gotten roughed up again tonight, tomorrow we are wiser and stronger.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

97% in ...Still love u Rand, butttt

----------


## Tywysog Cymru

I'm sad that Rand Paul only got fifth place, but at least I get to watch the alt-right on twitter despair over Trump's loss.

----------


## fatjohn

> There are 12 in the race, and Rand finishes at 5.   He is in the top 50%, so let's stop being "debbie downers".


He has half of whar we got in 08. It is so over.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> Lol against a shill for goldman sachs. I think ted is by far the worst candidate.



And as stated, it wont translate into anything for Ted in NH, or any of the other states. Ted is the new Frothy.

----------


## TomtheTinker

> Yup and that means Hillary will be our next President.


Bloomberg will run if it Clinton v trump. 

Trump may be the next president.

----------


## groverblue

I'm sick.

----------


## limequat

Oh, and everybody that has an "I told you so" or "Lol, at the kids"  

Kindly $#@! off.  Now is not the time.

----------


## 65fastback2+2

> This isn't Rand's fault at all. Many of the Ron Paul voters never understood the Fed. They're probably too $#@!ing dumb to understand it. They just wanted to be part of something; to be against the establishment. Well now they had plenty of places to go.  Don't blame Rand. He did the best he could.
> 
> I started realizing this a while ago, when some people I met when I was a delegate in 2008, started supporting single player health care.


more spot on.

----------


## Dianne

> The only smart thing the voters of Iowa did was soundly reject Bush.


Yes !!   Although I do believe it is the plan for Bush to come from behind.   This election will probably turn out to be the "countdown to armageddon", Bush versus Clinton.

----------


## bronc_fan23

> There are 12 in the race, and Rand finishes at 5.   He is in the top 50%, so let's stop being "debbie downers".


But it's not about that. He will be ignored now through NH, SC, and Super Tuesday, since he isn't polling well in any of those states. It was about gaining momentum and forcing the media to acknowledge the campaign. With this performance all the campaign can say is we beat Bush, Kasich, and Christie, which won't matter because all three of those guys will finish higher than Rand in NH.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Absolutely agree! Alex Jones, Lew Rockwell, Tom Woods, Michael Scheuer...A big $#@! YOU from me you get.


It almost makes me want Trump to win, just so a couple of those $#@!s jump off a bridge in shame.

----------


## ds21089

To those claiming to move to another country.. Are you so delusional to think the US wont find a reason to destroy whatever countries with freedom remain? "This just in ISIS has gone to Iceland. We must eradicate them." etc.  honestly its going to come down to a violent revolution, but t wont happen until after the economy collapses and people are near death.

----------


## Fivezeroes

Holy $#@! the establishment is REALLY propping up Rubio. He was expected to get 15% he's at 23% and rising. I'm calling shenanigans on Microshits part. This is Diebold all over again.

----------


## CPUd

> The campaign has sucked from day one. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone.


If you don't like the way the campaign is being run, take it to them.  Posting that $#@! here doesn't help anything.

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

Focus on your local areas and get your house in order.  Times are going to get rougher and rougher.  Let the country burn in debt.  I am done with this.  Apathy has returned.

----------


## CPUd

> Holy $#@! the establishment is REALLY propping up Rubio. He was expected to get 15% he's at 23% and rising. I'm calling shenanigans on Microshits part. This is Diebold all over again.


I think you're overplaying your hand a bit...

----------


## 69360

> How is Rand doing WORSE than the pre-caucus polls?


It's within the margin of error.




> Sad thing is that Cruz winning Iowa means nothing. Trump is up on both Rubio and Cruz by over 20%


The winner of the IA caucus always gets momentum into NH. This is the first time in months that Trump has been shown to be fallible.

----------


## parocks

> The two biggest variables were Cruz and Trump, a race without those two would look entirely different for Rand. I think Trump was the biggest variable, while Cruz blurred the lines between establishment and the liberty movement. 
> 
> If any of you thought all of the Ron Paul voters were purists like yourselves in 2012, you're kidding yourself. To say it would have been as simple as Rand being a carbon copy of Ron and then he would have gotten 21% in Iowa, you're also kidding yourselves.


"the liberty movement"?  "the liberty movement" could be seen as a subset of "tea party", perhaps.  Or, just "anti-establishment".  

People who generally like the way things are going vs people who generally don't like the way things are going.

And the people who generally don't like the way things are going isn't the same thing as "the liberty movement".

----------


## Dianne

Rand up to 5%, Carson down to 9%.   The bigger areas coming in.

----------


## MarcusI

> where can I find results that include rand?


http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/ia/Rep

----------


## Swift456

> I've got no problem with how Rand is running his campaign, especially the last few days.  This is the support forum for Rand's campaign, you should be ashamed of yourself for coming in here and $#@!ting on it when the campaign has a bad day.


Agreed.

Everybody needs to stop whining and giving up.

Keep fighting, keep believing no matter what.

The reason Cruz is leading is because Glenn Beck and Levin are throwing their support behind them. They won't side with Rand because of Foriegn Policy. But we know who is right. We know who's foriegn policy is the most sound.

Truth is Rand is the best candidate and it's not even close. The rest are a bunch of hacks who won't do anything. We need to keep up the energy despite what happens tonight. A 5th place finish with all these candidates and finishing ahead of Bush, Christie, Fiorina, Kasich isn't  great but it's not terrible.

So let's accept it and move on. We still have a lot of time left for Rand to get his message out. We still can do what we can. We know the rest of these candidates are not good. I know it's frustrating as hell, especially when you watch Fox, CNN and they are praising these guys. 

But we need to stay focused and keep fighting.

----------


## clint4liberty

7,015 votes, so almost 3,000 pledging to vote did not show up and adding up 1,025 pc captains is over 11k.  We underperformed by 4,000.

----------


## SilentBull

I was a delegate for Ron in 2008. I met some people in the movement who shortly after started arguing with me because they supported single payer health insurance. I started realizing a lot of the people in the movement who I thought were like me were not like me at all.

That's when I stopped going to events. I realized many of those people were nothing like me. $#@!ing losers with nothing to do, who just wanted to make a hobby out of politics. They didn't care to read about Austrian Economics. They just wanted to get together and hold up signs. 

This is what's wrong with the movement. It wasn't a movement at all.

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> To those claiming to move to another country.. Are you so delusional to think the US wont find a reason to destroy whatever countries with freedom remain? "This just in ISIS has gone to Iceland. We must eradicate them." etc.  honestly its going to come down to a violent revolution, but t wont happen until after the economy collapses and people are near death.


There's no resources to steal apart from thermal heat and fish stocks.

----------


## 69360

> Yes !!   Although I do believe it is the plan for Bush to come from behind.   This election will probably turn out to be the "countdown to armageddon", Bush versus Clinton.


I though that was the script too. But now Bush is too far behind for that.

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I think you're overplaying your hand a bit...


Anything that is software and connected to the internet can be hacked. Micro$#@! has the worst products of all when it comes to this type of thing. Rand still sitting at 4.5% hasn't moved in over an hour. I think it's a fair assessment to say that there are some shenanigans taking place.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

> To those claiming to move to another country.. Are you so delusional to think the US wont find a reason to destroy whatever countries with freedom remain? "This just in ISIS has gone to Iceland. We must eradicate them." etc.  honestly its going to come down to a violent revolution, but t wont happen until after the economy collapses and people are near death.


In Brazil we will just fight them with our soccer team, hot girls in thongs to melt their hearts, and BBQ.

----------


## fcreature

> Oh, and everybody that has an "I told you so" or "Lol, at the kids"  
> 
> Kindly $#@! off.  Now is not the time.


Sums it up. These people have been the problem from the get-go. They are not doers. They're complainers. The sad part is our "movement" is largely comprised of that subset so I'll kindly reiterate limequat. $#@! off.

Regardless, I'll be voting for Rand. At this point Cruz is probably the best bet at this country not being completely $#@!ed, however still a great chance of that being so with him in office. I will never support him in any race again.

When it comes down to it, only one candidate wins.

----------


## Thor

> "the liberty movement"?  "the liberty movement" could be seen as a subset of "tea party", perhaps.  Or, just "anti-establishment".  
> 
> People who generally like the way things are going vs people who generally don't like the way things are going.
> 
> And the people who generally don't like the way things are going isn't the same thing as "the liberty movement".


unfortunately, the liberty movement is like a bowel movement...  slips out and is flushed away...  amerikans like sucking the tit of government...  human nature..  easy street..  just like a mouse trap...  

"hey, it is a trap, don't take the cheese."  too late...

----------


## TER

> The campaign lied


Get lost, troll

----------


## Theocrat

> Holy $#@! the establishment is REALLY propping up Rubio. He was expected to get 15% he's at 23% and rising. I'm calling shenanigans on Microshits part. This is Diebold all over again.


I was thinking that same thing.

----------


## newbitech

> And the people who generally don't like the way things are going isn't the same thing as "the liberty movement".


wake up every morning and repeat this until 2024 and *we* might have a shot at doubling *our* numbers.

----------


## MarcusI

> How is Rand doing WORSE than the pre-caucus polls?


He isnt. 4% was his average.

----------


## Joeinmo

So at the present level of votes counted Rand will be just above 10,000 votes

----------


## rich34

> in a general, no, i wouldnt be surprised.
> 
> in a primary, ya, im a little surprised.
> "
> 
>  Every GOP voter rambles on about how obama has doubled the debt...and then goes and votes for someone still adding to the debt. ya, thats surprising.


must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 65fastback2+2 again.
 * 

This^^^

This is the kind of shirt that just makes you scratch your head.  Ted Cruz are you serious??  The guy being funded by Goldman Sachs?  These people deserve what they get!!

----------


## Mr Stealth

I have serious objections to Microsoft playing any part in the American elections, but that is a separate issue at this moment. Thank you to everybody who donated and spread the word. The fight for liberty continues.

----------


## jbauer

Dang gum. Rand isn't even top 3 in age demographic 17-29 according to cnn entrance polls. 

Go secure your senate seat Rand it's time to be realistic. 

Bad bad bad day. 

On the d side sanders is 84% in the 18-29 which means Liberty is in trouble.

----------


## bronc_fan23

> Like who? His wife? No one is more "establishment" than Ted Cruz.


I understand that! So does everyone in this forum. However, the media has given him this anti-establishment cred, and being hated by all the establishment Republicans.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

Ding Ding Ding Count Chocula Wins Iowa #shocker

----------


## groverblue

I feel like the campaign has been lying to me. They said they identified nearly 40k votes who were voting/leaning Rand.  $#@!, if only 20% of those turned out he still would have 10k. We didn't even hit that. What happened?

----------


## Krugminator2

> most got pessimistic and started cheering for the world to burn. SMH. im heavily doubting the rationality/sustainability of the "RPbase" as well. my heart aches for the old days of refreshing RPgraphs. <sigh>



There never was  a sustainable Ron Paul base. It was always based on one person. Rand tried to take an existing infrastructure and create a libertarian coalition. The demographics aren't there. He definitely made some mistakes  and miscalculations. He also isn't an ideal candidate to win a Presidential race. But he put himself in the arena and he should be proud of the effort he made. Hopefully either he or Amash or someone else learns from the campaign and plugs ahead.

----------


## iNoob

There is a good chance for Sanders to win the Democratic IA caucus.

50.1% Clinton 49.3% Sanders, 84% precincts reported

----------


## supermario21

Huckabee just announced on twitter he's suspending his campaign, tomorrow comes the likely Trump endorsement.

----------


## Joeinmo

Trump definately took lots of votes from Rand.

the counties were Trump did best Rand did Worst.

----------


## moraha

> I feel like the campaign has been lying to me. They said they identified nearly 40k votes who were voting/leaning Rand.  $#@!, if only 25% of those turned out he still would have 10k. We didn't even hit that. What happened?


This is exactly what I've been wondering.

On top of that, he only got about 7,000 votes? This is so frustrating.

----------


## supermario21

THE RON PAUL BASE WAS FUNDAMENTALLY NOT LIBERTARIAN.. the end. We need to stop lying to ourselves. Ron got lucky that there were huge spaces of the Republican coalition left unoccupied and that there was no one else in those lanes in 2012.

----------


## Swift456

Really sad to see all the doubters, complainers and blaming.

Keep your head on straight. Keep going. Don't be so weak.

----------


## Dianne

> I though that was the script too. But now Bush is too far behind for that.


He still has 59 million in his war chest.    Granted, his position in Iowa is embarrassing as hell.    Take that the BU$#@! family !!!!    I love to see them go down in a blaze of failure.

----------


## Dianne

Huckabee dropped out, finally.

----------


## francisco

> So... who's moving to NH with me then?


Despite the FreeState movement, NH has changed and has less and less of the "Live Free or Die" sentiment. Massholes moving in. 

No income or sales taxes, but to make up the shortfall, property taxes are sky-high

Winters are brutal

Just 'sayin, cuz I've thought of it myself

At any rate, some kind of refuge is called for

----------


## Chieppa1

I will never understand the Cruz love here. Even as the 2nd choice. What is the appeal? He's going to dive into war the first opportunity he gets. No one in more in love with Israel and it's plans than Ted Cruz.

Ron Paul had the antiwar vote. And now is forum is filled with ppl ignoring the major part of his platform.

----------


## Dianne

> Huckabee just announced on twitter he's suspending his campaign, tomorrow comes the likely Trump endorsement.


About damn time.   Santorum should do the same.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

#WINNING

----------


## parocks

> The campaign has sucked from day one. This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone.


It's a tough spot that Rand is in.  He's competing with Trump, Cruz and Carson.  Who did Ron have to contend with?  Socons and establishment.  Here we have populists and semi conservatives and Rand.   And the media has talked about Trump non stop.

----------


## moraha

> I will never understand the Cruz love here. Even as the 2nd choice. What is the appeal? He's going to dive into war the first opportunity he gets. No one in more in love with Israel and it's plans then Ted Cruz.


One thing I can tell you is that his positions are very similar to Paul's...whether he actually would DO them is a different story. On top of that, many people have told me that they like a flat tax which I believe only Paul and Cruz had.

----------


## Krugminator2

> THE RON PAUL BASE WAS FUNDAMENTALLY NOT LIBERTARIAN.. the end. We need to stop lying to ourselves. Ron got lucky that there were huge spaces of the Republican coalition left unoccupied and that there was no one else in those lanes in 2012.


That was always the biggest lie. There never was  libertarian moment.  There was a Ron Paul moment that attracted libertarians because Ron is a libertarian. But most of the coalition was something other than libertarian.

----------


## mac_hine

> This isn't Rand's fault at all. Many of the Ron Paul voters never understood the Fed. They're probably too $#@!ing dumb to understand it. They just wanted to be part of something; to be against the establishment. Well now they had plenty of places to go.  Don't blame Rand. He did the best he could.
> 
> I started realizing this a while ago, when some people I met when I was a delegate in 2008, started supporting single player health care.


Ron Paul during the debates in 2008/2012: END THE FED. Here's why....

Rand Paul 2016: mostly crickets on the fed... In favor of an audit. 

Ron Paul challenged the establishment and inspired millions. 

Rand Paul walked a tight rope trying play both sides and failed miserably. 

The writing is on the wall.

Put a fork in it. It's over. 




http://youtu.be/jsaTElBljOE

----------


## Cleaner44

According to CNN, Cruz gets 6 delegates while Trump and Rubio win 5 delegates.
http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/ia

----------


## Dianne

> I will never understand the Cruz love here. Even as the 2nd choice. What is the appeal? He's going to dive into war the first opportunity he gets. No one in more in love with Israel and it's plans then Ted Cruz.


I think his appeal is that the establishment hates him.   Even the Governor of Iowa said vote for anyone other than Cruz.   Bob Dole said vote for Trump before you vote for Cruz.

----------


## groverblue

> I will never understand the Cruz love here. Even as the 2nd choice. What is the appeal? He's going to dive into war the first opportunity he gets. No one in more in love with Israel and it's plans than Ted Cruz.
> 
> Ron Paul had the antiwar vote. And now is forum is filled with ppl ignoring the major part of his platform.


Cruz is a fraud. He's Goldman Sachs.

----------


## MarcusI

> There are 12 in the race, and Rand finishes at 5.   He is in the top 50%, so let's stop being "debbie downers".


Some did worse than their polling numbers and Rand was, tbh, not one of them. He was at 3.9 at Huffington polls of polls and 4.1 at RCP

----------


## Alldayallie

21% for Ron in 2012. 4.5% Rand now. Liberty movement is over

----------


## Chieppa1

Are these people here? I mean this forum.

----------


## serenityrick

> I will never understand the Cruz love here. Even as the 2nd choice. What is the appeal? He's going to dive into war the first opportunity he gets. No one in more in love with Israel and it's plans than Ted Cruz.
> 
> Ron Paul had the antiwar vote. And now is forum is filled with ppl ignoring the major part of his platform.


there's cruz love here?

This place is more or less obsessed with hating the guy.

personally i'm in favor of his domestic and economic policies. If it came down to it, I have no issue with voting for him. With that said, I'll be voting for Paul in the NH primary.

----------


## Swift456

Don't stop based on tonight. 

Just take the positives of beating Christie, Bush, Kasich and Fiorina. 

Then hope he can take out Carson and one of the big guns down the line here. Rand can do it, but he can't let Marco Rubio speak over him next time and be way more aggressive in attacking these guys. Time to go after Trump again and Rubio.

----------


## CPUd



----------


## Paulfan05

College kids went for Rubio? wtf

----------


## MarcusI

> Yes !!   Although I do believe it is the plan for Bush to come from behind.   This election will probably turn out to be the "countdown to armageddon", Bush versus Clinton.


I think it will be Clinton vs. Rubio.


No idea how that will turn out, but I guess it doesnt matter at all.

----------


## Chester Copperpot

> This will be a three way race now. This isn't even as good for liberty as in 08.
> I feel bad for Ron Paul, he has to be sad to see his son fail like this.


never give up mother $#@!er

----------


## craezie

> At any rate, some kind of refuge is called for


I don't think most people even here would do it.  Even as they pronounce judgment and collapse on our country, most are too attached to their comforts to give them up.  People are operating with the delusional thinking that some canned food and ammo is going to save them.

I've been spending a lot of time in Africa the past few years.  Even an African country with 40% official posted taxes, $350 per capita GDP and a despotic dictator is more free in many ways than the US.  It is very eye opening.  I'm not quite ready to go that far, but I think there are many places you could tuck away in Latin America and do very well, with little government interference.

----------


## moraha

The problem is the media controlled everything. Every...single...thing.

One of my aunts come over my house today and she told me she wanted to vote for Rubio. I asked her why? She said he seemed very confident and presidential. She asked who I'm supporting and I said Rand Paul. She said "I've heard of him but they never talk about him on TV so I don't know much"..."HEARD" of him??? 

But it's not her fault. Most people only hear what is being said on the news. As long as the media has control over things, they decide who wins.

----------


## Miguel

> Ron Paul during the debates in 2008/2012: END THE FED. Here's why....
> 
> Rand Paul 2016: mostly crickets on the fed... In favor of an audit. 
> 
> Ron Paul challenged the establishment and inspired millions. 
> 
> Rand Paul walked a tight rope trying play both sides and failed miserably. 
> 
> The writing is on the wall.
> ...


You are so wrong you don't even know it

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> There never was  a sustainable Ron Paul base. It was always based on one person. Rand tried to take an existing infrastructure and create a libertarian coalition. The demographics aren't there. He definitely made some mistakes  and miscalculations. He also isn't an ideal candidate to win a Presidential race. But he put himself in the arena and he should be proud of the effort he made. Hopefully either he or Amash or someone else learns from the campaign and plugs ahead.


Yes, anyone blaming the campaign needs to $#@! right off. 

...might as well blame King Canute for failing to stop the tide.

Fighting the massive vested interests who profit from the growth of government is never going to be easy, and this year was especially unfortunate.

The GOP is hell-bent on nominating a national socialist retard (to fight the A-rabs and Messicuns). 

It is what it is.

----------


## CPUd

> This will be a three way race now. This isn't even as good for liberty as in 08.
> I feel bad for Ron Paul, he has to be sad to see his son fail like this.


Yes, a 3-way race between Rand Cruz and Rubio.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I think it will be Clinton vs. Rubio.
> 
> No idea how that will turn out, but I guess it doesnt matter at all.


I'm afraid you're right.

----------


## Valli6

> And as stated, it wont translate into anything for Ted in NH, or any of the other states. Ted is the new Frothy.


I agree. and I would _never_ vote for this guy in the general!

----------


## Swift456

> Still going to vote for Rand.  Don't let tonights results get to you.


Yes




> I think that is taking it over board.    Look, Rand came in 5th.   He beat out all the establishment Governors !!!!    I think he had an impressive showing.   Trump, Cruz and Rubio all have skeletons in their closets.    Rand needs to come in playing hard ball !!!    We got a shot, we're still in this !!


Yes!!




> The problem is the media controlled everything. Every...single...thing.
> 
> One of my aunts come over my house today and she told me she wanted to vote for Rubio. I asked her why? She said he seemed very confident and presidential. She asked who I'm supporting and I said Rand Paul. She said "I've heard but they never talk about him on TV"...HEARD" of him??? 
> 
> But it's not her fault. Most people only hear what is being said on the news. As long as the media has control over things, they decide who wins.


Agreed, Lady in my office said the same thing. Who is Rand Paul? I dont even know what he stands for. This is the issue. The media does control everything.

----------


## timosman

> New Hampshire, Iceland. . .can someone please pick somewhere that ISN'T F'ING COLD?!?


Monaco.

----------


## Krugminator2

> Ron Paul during the debates in 2008/2012: END THE FED. Here's why....


The majority of people who voted for Ron Paul do not care about the Federal Reserve. Some care. Very few do. And I would bet the majority who do care about monetary policy use the phrase "Zionist bankster," which would lead me to believe that the boom-bust cycle is not what they are worried about.

----------


## Dianne

> never give up mother $#@!er


Agreed !!!   Look, Rand just took out a Bush.   Would you have ever dreamed that one year ago?   This board is too negative.   Rand had a good night.   He's still in the fight.

----------


## Peace&Freedom

> I feel like the campaign has been lying to me. They said they identified nearly 40k votes who were voting/leaning Rand.  $#@!, if only 20% of those turned out he still would have 10k. We didn't even hit that. What happened?


WE WERE LIED TO, you said it yourself. I posted predictions based on the widely promoted talking points made by Rand and the campaign, which sounded realistic and sincere. It now appears the campaign was just saving face for as long as it could, or else certain consultants lied to them.

----------


## Foreigner

Just 570 votes so far in Story county where we had 2000+ student pledges... (4 precincts to go) WTF happened? Did they stay home? Did they decide to vote for Rubio instead, who is dominating there with 32%+?

Jefferson county which went 50% for Ron Paul is at 8% for Rand. (1 precinct missing)

----------


## bierdegarde

Feels like I just took a kick to my junk.

----------


## devil21

I'll take 5th, considering the media's continued efforts to marginalize Rand.  Several will drop out (Huck and Santorum already have) and Rand will still be on the debate stage if he stays in.  Lots can happen in the coming months.  Wanted a better result but he is outperforming the polls as expected.

But one thing is clear, the sheep are still very sheepy and voluntarily taking us all to slaughter if they get their way.




> The majority of people who voted for Ron Paul do not care about the Federal Reserve. Some care. Very few do. And I would bet the majority who do care about monetary policy use the phrase "Zionist bankster," which would lead me to believe that the boom-bust cycle is not what they are worried about.


Some of us know what the Fed was _really_ created to do.  Sadly, most still don't and never will, even as everything they thought they owned is stolen out from under them.

----------


## ProBlue33

Wow, Rubio is drawing blood on Clinton in his speech, I like it.

----------


## Swift456

Let's give Rand Paul some props here. The guy worked his balls off. And he's not going to stop either. He will stop if we stop, so we can't stop.

It's true we underperformed tonight, we should have beat Carson and at least finished in 4th. But we did beat a Bush and did beat the Bloward Christie, so I will take it and move on.

----------


## lakerssuck92

A lot of liberal leaning anti-war and civil libertarian voters in 2012 crossed over to vote for Paul cause there was no competing democratic race. A lot of those people voted for Bernie this time.

----------


## Theocrat

> The problem is the media controlled everything. Every...single...thing.
> 
> One of my aunts come over my house today and she told me she wanted to vote for Rubio. I asked her why? She said he seemed very confident and presidential. She asked who I'm supporting and I said Rand Paul. She said "I've heard but they never talk about him on TV"...HEARD" of him??? 
> 
> But it's not her fault. Most people only hear what is being said on the news. As long as the media has control over things, they decide who wins.


Yes, I agree with that. The media used the polls (and continue to use the polls) to manipulate public opinion on the candidates. They don't use polls to measure public opinion. The sad fact from that is the average voter just feeds off of whatever the mainstream networks report to them, and that voter acts accordingly, without any critical analysis of the report or any independent research of the candidates for himself.

----------


## Miguel

> The problem is the media controlled everything. Every...single...thing.


So very True, American's get conned by the mainstream media most of the time that has to change

----------


## phill4paul

It's been called for Cruz. Whoopie. Go 'murika.

----------


## groverblue

We only got 15% of the campaigns theoretical limit. Horrible job identifying voters.

----------


## Miguel

> Wow, Rubio is drawing blood on Clinton in his speech, I like it.



Rubio is a wanna be Hillary Clinton

----------


## Dianne

> A lot of liberal leaning anti-war and civil libertarian voters in 2012 crossed over to vote for Paul cause there was no competing democratic race. A lot of those people voted for Bernie this time.


I absolutely believe Sanders took a lot of the Paul "youth" vote.  Sanders is anti war, as Rand; but Sanders is also promising no more college debt which Rand could not promise.

----------


## Swift456

How many times is Rubio going to take about his Parents. 

Guy is the most generic politician out of all these guys. Cruz is next. Generic BS.

----------


## ProBlue33

> never give up mother $#@!er


After being through this in 08 and 12 I have become much more pragmatic and realistic on these matters.
If you want to continue on Fantasy Island carry on, I wish I could join you there.

----------


## lakerssuck92

CNN playing Rubio's speech in full we get to hear his story for the 135324723057159th time.

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

If we just could have beat Carson

----------


## Millennial Conservatarian

Trump and Cruz will kill each other and the neo-con Rubio will probably be the next president.... he sucks but at least he isn't a complete fascist

----------


## Thor

The problem is, amerikuns want free $#@!...  they want to suck off the tit of government, even if they take it out in their hide.  they want protection,  security...  they are weak, spineless, brain dead windbags...

The liberty message will NEVER ring true for such mind warped fat ass $#@!s...

It will take more than "voting" to wake people up...  unfortunately...

well, Rome 2.0 ...  it was fun.

----------


## speciallyblend

i think we will have a new 3rd party very soon, called the gop. I'm disgusted. will not vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

----------


## Foreigner

I was never sure that the official campaign was that good in Iowa since it was underfunded. But Concerned American Voters and Students for Rand looked formidable... 

If people had actually turned out we would have had a good showing. Sadly I think the negative polls put people into the "why bother"-mode.

----------


## Nye

I know very few people who support Trump here in Maryland.  When I bring up Rand, they all say "I like him, but I heard he has no chance of winning".  The media controls too much.  

I can also say here I've only seen Bernie signs/bumper stickers, but Maryland is too democratic.

P.S.   Extremely happy to see Trump go down in flames tonight.

----------


## CPUd



----------


## Dianne

Everyone go post on Rand's facebook page...   Tell him job well done !!!!

----------


## Fivezeroes

> The choice is a criminal versus a socialist.   How can anyone take sides on that match up?   Geeeeeeeeeesh.



I'm just annoyed with them, they vote for a Canadian that is owned by the banks, a bigot, Marco Polo and now Bernie Sanders. But completely ignore the one man that truly wants to help this nation.

----------


## Foreigner

> ^^ time to go hard for NH!


If everyone in the Liberty movement had your enthusiasm, then we would have won Iowa tonight!

----------


## Fivezeroes

> I think we are headed to a brokered convention and it will be a bloodbath on the way to it and it will be Rubio at the end of the day. I actually thought it would be Rubio from the start ...sadly. The establishment in DC will pour money into Rubio now.



Yea and then dumbass Trump will run Independent because the GoP was unfair to him and the criminal or the socialist gets elected.

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

> I think you are totally wrong, especially since the youth of today are being trained to rely on welfare, free this and free that, financial support from birth until grave.   By the time the older people pass on, this will be a communist nation, a place you won't wish to live in.


Agreed. Not to offend anyone of the yutes here, but I have little to non faith in the millennial generation to further the liberty movement.

----------


## Miguel

> I absolutely believe Sanders took a lot of the Paul "youth" vote.  Sanders is anti war, as Rand; but Sanders is also promising no more college debt which Rand could not promise.


Agree

----------


## Tywysog Cymru

When I see people like this unhappy, it just makes me happy!

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

> Rand needs to stay in just to get on that debate stage and sound completely different from the other candidates. He just needs to go full Ron at this point. $#@!ing scare this country into voting for peace. Explain to them that these others on stage are completely nuts and want to get their kids killed.


He needs to stay in and go full on Ron Paul to the wall for my money. Screw it

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> Rand needs to stay in just to get on that debate stage and sound completely different from the other candidates. He just needs to go full Ron at this point. $#@!ing scare this country into voting for peace. Explain to them that these others on stage are completely nuts and want to get their kids killed.


Can't go wrong I suppose.  Drop truth bombs.  Talk about the petro-dollar.  Talk about why we are in the middle east.  Talk about the Fed. Talk about false flags. Talk about it all.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Yep yep yep.  At what point should I as a pie giver, say $#@! it, and become a pie taker?  Retiring at 35 sounds pretty fun.


The top few percent of the population will always do fine: they'll always find gainful employment in the MIC, or Wall Street, or the Politburo. 

...depending on the historical situation. 

Libertarianism is an humanitarian ideology.

...it's about helping the great masses of $#@!ing morons who just killed us in Iowa. 

If you weren't a humanitarian, you would be here. 

So, when do you give it up and become a pie-taker?

Never, would be my guess.

----------


## Dianne

> Yep yep yep.  At what point should I as a pie giver, say $#@! it, and become a pie taker?  Retiring at 35 sounds pretty fun.


Works for Rubio.   He's a 40 something year old "retiree", collecting his Senate salary and benefits, while not showing up to work.    He is a typical welfare recipient.   I could understand someone taking a leave of absence and not accepting pay, in order to take months off to look for another job.   But Rubio continues to collect every dime he can from the taxpayer while not doing a lick of work, or showing up for work.

----------


## parocks

> The people don't want logic ...They want a government with a $19T dollar debt to give them freebies and the blood of Mexicans and Muslims. That is the message of this election thusfar.


The message is set by, things are controlled by, oligopoly media.  You really can't say what "the people" want these days.  

The message thusfar?  If you talk about Trump all the time, he'll get some votes.  The guy who you don't let in the debates will not be seen as a front runner.  Rand Paul did better than Jeb Bush in Iowa.  The media is not pushing Rand Paul. That doesn't help, and it didn't help Ron either.

But you can't figure out what people want from the outcomes of elections.

----------


## Millennial Conservatarian

Time to go full Ron

----------


## adam220891

> CSPAN just said Rand is staying in.  Good!  Lots can happen in the coming months.


*Thank you for your donation*  Thank you for your $20.16 contribution to my campaign. Your transaction ID is 25430XX.

----------


## parocks

> Can't go wrong I suppose.  Drop truth bombs.  Talk about the petro-dollar.  Talk about why we are in the middle east.  Talk about the Fed. Talk about false flags. Talk about it all.


The problem with that is that Rand has a future that he likely wants to preserve.  He's got to keep winning in Kentucky.

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> The problem with that is that Rand has a future that he likely wants to preserve.  He's got to keep winning in Kentucky.


I guess he also values his life and doesn't want to be shot.

----------


## Swift456

> Rand needs to stay in just to get on that debate stage and sound completely different from the other candidates. He just needs to go full Ron at this point. $#@!ing scare this country into voting for peace. Explain to them that these others on stage are completely nuts and want to get their kids killed.


Agreed logically he makes the most sense, but emotionally he doesn't hit home all the way. He need to start go after peoples emotions like the rest of the candidates do. 

Still wonder why what happened to the 10,000 kids. Probably more than half of them just stay home and were half-ass. And then you got a lot of comp with Rubio, Trump, Carson and Cruz.

But Rand still beat Bush and Christie and another governor in Kasich. It's a decent performance.

And he already has a ground game set up in New Hampshire and has campaigned there a lot. So let's see how he does. Let's keep fighting and believing and hopefully Rand turns it up a notch here.

----------


## CPUd

Rand gets 1 bound delegate from Iowa, which is 1 more than Bush, Kasich, Fiorina, Christie, Huck Santorum and Gilmore have combined!

----------


## HarryBrowneLives

Just thinking out loud. I don't think Hillary Clinton could win a one person race. She couldn't find her ass with both hands. Had Obama smoked in the race 8 years ago and lost Iowa and had an old, never was (not a has been) crusty, socialist tie her in Iowa. She is just a crappy campaigner with no social skills. A house plant from the GOP might beat her in the general. She will create a way.

----------


## Dianne

> Agreed logically he makes the most sense, but emotionally he doesn't hit home all the way. He need to start go after peoples emotions like the rest of the candidates do. 
> 
> Still wonder why what happened to the 10,000 kids. Probably more than half of them just stay home and were half-ass. And then you got a lot of comp with Rubio, Trump, Carson and Cruz.
> 
> But Rand still beat Bush and Christie and another governor in Kasich. It's a decent performance.
> 
> And he already has a ground game set up in New Hampshire and has campaigned there a lot. So let's see how he does. Let's keep fighting and believing and hopefully Rand turns it up a notch here.


The New Hampshire Free State Project needs to jump in and work their asses off for Rand !

----------


## CPUd



----------


## Theocrat

> The New Hampshire Free State Project needs to jump in and work their asses off for Rand !


What has the "Free State Project" been doing for the last few years? New Hampshire keeps voting for nanny state candidates in their primaries...

----------


## CPUd



----------


## HarryBrowneLives

> They did, a whole $#@!load of them did, but they switched to Rubio.


So we had really weak ass kids?

----------


## JenH88

> What has the "Free State Project" been doing for the last few years? New Hampshire keeps voting for nanny state candidates in their primaries...


a bulk of them have been busy arguing with each other over who is more statist. because voting means endorsing the state.   i doubt they will be much aid to Rand unfortunately.

----------


## moraha

> Huckabee has dropped out, not Santorum, he's going to SC.


My mistake...I have no clue where I read he dropped out.

----------


## misterx

I have to admit, that USA USA chant at the Bernie speech made me smile a little. That's something you won't hear at a Clinton rally.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Rand never really stood out during the cycle. Jones was correct in stating that Rand should have been more forceful and created his own buzz like one wise billionaire.


The double digit IQ trust fund baby to which you refer received 25 TIMES as much media coverage as ALL of the other candidates COMBINED.

My $#@!ing dog could've won Iowa with that kind of coverage.

----------


## groverblue

> As a said on another thread, Cruz reminds me so much of the old snake oil salesmen portrayed in the Andy Griffith Show and Gunsmoke, lol.     He is such a phony.


me too.

----------


## Foreigner

> Frothy is a professional candidate for POTUS. That's his day job now ...raising money continually for a million to none chance. I expect him to run every 4 years for the next 7 cycles at least.


He's not doing a good job then... Reports are that his campaign is heavy in debt. Covering it with personal loans.. And he's not a rich person.

So he may be running until one of the other candidates promise to pay for his debts in return for an endorsement.

Granted, I have been wrong about most things this cycle...

----------


## WQuantrill

> The double digit IQ trust fund baby to which you refer received 25 TIMES as much media coverage as ALL of the other candidates COMBINED.
> 
> My $#@!ing dog could've won Iowa with that kind of coverage.


I think two years ago, Trump told a confidant that he would play the media to subsidize his campaign. Trump knows what the MSM is drawn to, that being controversy and impure political thoughts. Rand should have punted the safe strategy and threw in some curveballs to garner attention.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> I think two years ago, Trump told a confidant that he would play the media to subsidize his campaign. Trump knows what the MSM is drawn to, that being controversy and impure political thoughts. Rand should have punted the safe strategy and threw in some curveballs to garner attention.


No, what the media is drawn to is a progressive democrat who can win the GOP nomination.



...you've been snookered.

----------


## devil21

CSPAN just changed their numbers back to 98.5%, Rand at 4.5% and Cruz lead over Trump went from 32%/23% to 27%/24%.  Some vote massaging going on...

----------


## Peace&Freedom

> Nope, they weren't.  And they didn't need to be, either.  What we needed was their votes.  But, here, on RPFs the purity squad is so busy running people out of here who don't walk lockstep with them, that they overlooked this crucial point.  WE NEED VOTES and not only from the self-ordained purity squad.


The kingmaker elite and media got a partial victory by successfully muting Rand's candidacy, while firmly positioning Rubio as their best insider bet for winning the nomination. All of which shows how hard it is to defeat them. But they lost the #1 and #2 spots in IA to outsiders they absolutely did not choose. And all of their other establishment drones finished below Rand, meaning they should be finished, period. This is overall progress, as the elite hold over the primary racket has been loosened. As I quoted Chuck Baldwin today: "As far as politics are concerned, more than anything else in this world, it is imperative that the establishment elite in Washington, D.C., are dethroned." 

Rand failed tonight because the tricks of that elite still work when used to marginalize liberty candidates, and because of the mistakes of the campaign previously discussed---alienating part of the original RP base due to compromises, not growing the base by truly courting religious conservatives, pro-outsider and Tea Party populists, or talking bluntly about the role of covert ops manipulating us into a constant pro-war mode, etc. That, combined with his decision to not create leverage for himself by running third party, did not give the rank and file a compelling reason to consider him, thus no pathway to placing high in IA.  

I expect Rand to stay in through mid-March (past the KY caucus, and super-duper Tuesday), after which he should either suspend if he has not yet won any primary, or consider the third party option in time for the LP and CP conventions. Going to 2020, perhaps we need to find a well funded anti-establishment, super-conservative-libertarian who's not afraid to confront the kingmakers, bluntly talk against false flags and the war party, and is willing to run on a multi-party basis. 

Say a Napolitano-Thiel or Alex Jones-Thiel candidacy, which would combine boldness with big money. This will be easier to do if Rubio or Jeb wins the election (and thus Rand sits out 2020), as it would force the movement to run against the incumbent Republican statist---or else shut up about being a movement that is mainly about liberty, instead of just GOP loyalty, with a liberty flavoring.

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## ThePaleoLibertarian

In the end, democracy will always let you down. Not that this wasn't predictable, though. Trump made a mistake ditching the last debate, and Rand's campaign hasn't resonated with its target audience. You can blame the plebe voters (and they deserve it), but Rand must also shoulder his share of the responsibility.

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## invisible

If Rand had 10,000 students and 35,000+ votes identified, then where the heck did all those votes go?  WTF!

If Rand can also finish ahead of kasich, shrub, carson, and christy in NH, he's still very much so in the game (and it will probably knock those 3 out of the race very quickly).  Especially if he can pull out a top 3 finish in NV and possibly even NH, or finish in NH ahead of anyone in the IA top 3.

Did anyone else see bill during clinton's little speech?  He was blatantly leering over hillary's shoulder, checking out someone in the audience, mouthing words and kisses, and maintaining eye contact the entire time.  chelsea noticed exactly what he was doing about halfway through, and kept giving him dirty looks and muttering under her breath.

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## AngryCanadian

> In the end, democracy will always let you down. Not that this wasn't predictable, though. Trump made a mistake ditching the last debate, and Rand's campaign hasn't resonated with its target audience. You can blame the plebe voters (and they deserve it), but Rand must also shoulder his share of the responsibility.


The next debate Rand should be more like Trump.

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## Thor

> I think two years ago, Trump told a confidant that he would play the media to subsidize his campaign. Trump knows what the MSM is drawn to, that being controversy and impure political thoughts. Rand should have punted the safe strategy and threw in some curveballs to garner attention.


I read the book "Trump" in the 80's...  one of his thoughts...  "Bad press is better than no press"  He does not care, as long as his name is out there...  "I could shoot people and still win."  Trump gets his name out there, no matter what $#@! spews from his mouth hole.

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## bronc_fan23

> The next debate Rand should be more like Trump.


If he makes it...

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## Libertas Aut Mortis

Hello all,

As you can easily tell, this is my first Post ever on Ron Paul Forums. I joined for two reasons. 1st - I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now, reading this forum; and it was time to get involved. 2nd - I feel as though my involvement could be beneficial to the community...or at least I hope it can be.

I've noticed that many of you have taken a very jaded and callous reaction to this 5th place. Are we in ideal positioning? No. Did we do as well as we anticipated? No. But is it over? Not by a long shot.

Trump has been proven vulnerable. Cruz fumbles under pressure. Carson is asleep. Our voice can still be heard!

Is it a tough road? Yes. Is there a good possibility of it ending just like in 08 and 12. Yeah. But dammit I would rather Die on my Feet than Live on my Knees!

I know you guys have this fire in your belly somewhere. It is time to find it. Time to dig deep. The Republic is in jeopardy, and it is the duty of True-Born Sons everywhere to preserve her. Now is the time to fight with the Constitution in one hand and the Bill of Rights in the other.


I hope to be speaking with you all in the coming days...and please, if I screw up or am doing anything wrong; point it out. The faster I can assimilate the better.

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## thatpeculiarcat

> Iowa City 31st of January 2016: 1500 people show up for the Rand Paul rally.
> Iowa City   1st of February 2016:  620 people show up to caucus for Rand Paul. (still a few precincts to go, but..)
> 
> It's the same at the other college towns as well. (although all the votes are not counted yet)
> 
> Why are not people showing up?


I hate the youth. $#@! the youth. They let us down every single time. Bernie, Carson, Rubio, Rand--hmmm, which do I pick?!

NEVER again should we base our ENTIRE STRATEGY on garnering youth support. It's a waste of time, and not that I agree with him on everything, but Liberty74 has been right about this for a long time.

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## CPUd

With updated results, delegate allocation:

Cruz 8
Trump 7
Rubio 7
Carson 3
Paul 1
Bush 1

This is 27/30, which is all they are allocating tonight because the other 3 are super delegates.

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## fcreature

> Hello all,
> 
> As you can easily tell, this is my first Post ever on Ron Paul Forums. I joined for two reasons. 1st - I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now, reading this forum; and it was time to get involved. 2nd - I feel as though my involvement could be beneficial to the community...or at least I hope it can be.
> 
> I've noticed that many of you have taken a very jaded and callous reaction to this 5th place. Are we in ideal positioning? No. Did we do as well as we anticipated? No. But is it over? Not by a long shot.
> 
> Trump has been proven vulnerable. Cruz fumbles under pressure. Carson is asleep. Our voice can still be heard!
> 
> Is it a tough road? Yes. Is there a good possibility of it ending just like in 08 and 12. Yeah. But dammit I would rather Die on my Feet than Live on my Knees!
> ...


+rep for great first post.

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## Jonderdonk

> If Rand had 10,000 students and 35,000+ votes identified, then where the heck did all those votes go?  WTF!
> 
> If Rand can also finish ahead of kasich, shrub, carson, and christy in NH, he's still very much so in the game (and it will probably knock those 3 out of the race very quickly).  Especially if he can pull out a top 3 finish in NV and possibly even NH, or finish in NH ahead of anyone in the IA top 3.
> *
> Did anyone else see bill during clinton's little speech?  He was blatantly leering over hillary's shoulder, checking out someone in the audience, mouthing words and kisses, and maintaining eye contact the entire time.  chelsea noticed exactly what he was doing about halfway through, and kept giving him dirty looks and muttering under her breath.*


*


*Yes, I noticed

----------


## groverblue

> Hello all,
> 
> As you can easily tell, this is my first Post ever on Ron Paul Forums. I joined for two reasons. 1st - I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now, reading this forum; and it was time to get involved. 2nd - I feel as though my involvement could be beneficial to the community...or at least I hope it can be.
> 
> I've noticed that many of you have taken a very jaded and callous reaction to this 5th place. Are we in ideal positioning? No. Did we do as well as we anticipated? No. But is it over? Not by a long shot.
> 
> Trump has been proven vulnerable. Cruz fumbles under pressure. Carson is asleep. Our voice can still be heard!
> 
> Is it a tough road? Yes. Is there a good possibility of it ending just like in 08 and 12. Yeah. But dammit I would rather Die on my Feet than Live on my Knees!
> ...


The kid stays in the picture.

----------


## groverblue

> Did anyone else see bill during clinton's little speech?  He was blatantly leering over hillary's shoulder, checking out someone in the audience, mouthing words and kisses, and maintaining eye contact the entire time.  chelsea noticed exactly what he was doing about halfway through, and kept giving him dirty looks and muttering under her breath.


tube?

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## Peace&Freedom

> If Rand had 10,000 students and 35,000+ votes identified, then where the heck did all those votes go?  WTF!
> 
> If Rand can also finish ahead of kasich, shrub, carson, and christy in NH, he's still very much so in the game (and it will probably knock those 3 out of the race very quickly).  Especially if he can pull out a top 3 finish in NV and possibly even NH, or finish in NH ahead of anyone in the IA top 3.


I'll say it again, WE WERE LIED TO about the youth turn out, plain and simple. I posted predictions based on the widely promoted talking points made by Rand and the campaign, which sounded realistic and sincere. It now appears the campaign was just saving face for as long as it could, or else certain consultants lied to them. Sadly, the ONLY plausible plan Rand had to do well in NV or other early states all hinged on him finishing high in Iowa. That didn't happen, so the plans going forward are now all IMplausible.

I specifically recall asking if the campaign had an _aggressive_ plan to car pool youth to the caucuses (not just 'pledges' to recruit them), or a similar plan to get their votes through absentee/early voting where possible. The feedback was that the campaign had these bases covered, don't worry. Just like when Lew Moore told me in mid-2007 the campaign had a plan to combat the poll blackout of Ron Paul, in order to persuade me to drop an independent Zogby poll (that included Paul) I was raising money for. The campaign's plan never materialized.

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## bunklocoempire

> The kid stays in the picture.


A lot of moxie that one.

----------


## fcreature

I'm reading that Cruz's campaign was telling everyone today that Carson dropped out. They used the story of him going back to Florida tonight to convince people that he had already gotten out of the race. Carson made some complaints about this in a speech.

Cruz is a $#@!ing slime ball. Behind that and the rumors he spread about Carson's faith behind closed doors in the Evangelical communities, the guy basically took out Carson's entire campaign. Looks like he's willing to use any dirty tactic to get elected.

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Hello all,
> 
> As you can easily tell, this is my first Post ever on Ron Paul Forums. I joined for two reasons. 1st - I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now, reading this forum; and it was time to get involved. 2nd - I feel as though my involvement could be beneficial to the community...or at least I hope it can be.
> 
> I've noticed that many of you have taken a very jaded and callous reaction to this 5th place. Are we in ideal positioning? No. Did we do as well as we anticipated? No. But is it over? Not by a long shot.
> 
> Trump has been proven vulnerable. Cruz fumbles under pressure. Carson is asleep. Our voice can still be heard!
> 
> Is it a tough road? Yes. Is there a good possibility of it ending just like in 08 and 12. Yeah. But dammit I would rather Die on my Feet than Live on my Knees!
> ...


+rep

I appreciate your enthusiasm, don't mind us, we're just a _tad_ pissed at the moment.

----------


## puppetmaster

> Just posted this on Rand's FB page:
> 
> Good job tonight Rand !! Taking 5th place, and beating all the Governors, including a Bush, is highly respectable. Let's take it to New Hampshire. There is so much dirt on Cruz, Rubio, and Trump, the door is still wide open for you during the primaries. Let them self destruct, and let's win this, President Rand Paul .


Yes

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## CPUd



----------


## parocks

> So is https://www.iagopcaucuses.com/ working for anybody? It's been down for almost an hour now.
> 
> Which means new updates to the results aren't updated anywhere else either.
> 
> Precincts remaining sould be some of the largest. While were not gonna jump to 4th, I'd at least like to see the total vote counts for the College town counties...


It's been updated, we didn't crush it in college towns.  Rubio crushed it in college towns.  I just looked at Story and Johnson counties and I don't think we won a precinct, and it looks like Rubio won almost every precinct there.

----------


## invisible

> Something fell apart and they're not really saying too much about what it is, but they definitely knew by 5PM something wasn't right.


What indicates to you that they knew something wasn't right by 5pm?

----------


## groverblue

> ...they definitely knew by 5PM something wasn't right.


what evidence do you have they knew something by 5pm?

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## parocks

> Iowa City 31st of January 2016: 1500 people show up for the Rand Paul rally.
> Iowa City   1st of February 2016:  620 people show up to caucus for Rand Paul. (still a few precincts to go, but..)
> 
> It's the same at the other college towns as well. (although all the votes are not counted yet)
> 
> Why are not people showing up?


Here are some possible answers.

1) They went to the rally to go to the rally.  Maybe they went to get information to make a decision.  Maybe they did caucus, but not for Rand.

2) Caucusing is a pain.

----------


## invisible

> tube?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0O6iR_d4TY



I saw it on fox, and they had the better camera angle than this (cnn) version (no breakaway shots, and bill not obscured behind hillary's head at all when he moves around a bit).  However, you can still very obviously see what's going on here.  bill is even licking his lips, lol.

----------


## parocks

> I think two years ago, Trump told a confidant that he would play the media to subsidize his campaign. Trump knows what the MSM is drawn to, that being controversy and impure political thoughts. Rand should have punted the safe strategy and threw in some curveballs to garner attention.


The media wanted to talk about Trump.  Trump doesn't have to worry about pissing off voters - he's not a politician. Rand could throw bombs all day, right now, if he wants.  But that might hurt him with voters in Kentucky.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> The problem is the media controlled everything. Every...single...thing.
> 
> One of my aunts come over my house today and she told me she wanted to vote for Rubio. I asked her why? She said he seemed very confident and presidential. She asked who I'm supporting and I said Rand Paul. She said "I've heard of him but they never talk about him on TV so I don't know much"..."HEARD" of him??? 
> 
> But it's not her fault. Most people only hear what is being said on the news. As long as the media has control over things, they decide who wins.


Well, Paul Ryan shouldn't feel bad about a 5th place finish. He's doing a great job as Secretary of State.




> It's been updated, we didn't crush it in college towns.  Rubio crushed it in college towns.  I just looked at Story and Johnson counties and I don't think we won a precinct, and it looks like Rubio won almost every precinct there.


Maybe President Rubio will start some wars and implement a draft to thank them?

----------


## puppetmaster

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0O6iR_d4TY
> 
> 
> 
> I saw it on fox, and they had the better camera angle than this (cnn) version (no breakaway shots, and bill not obscured behind hillary's head at all when he moves around a bit).  However, you can still very obviously see what's going on here.  bill is even licking his lips, lol.


  this dude is wasted......I say meth

Edit.  Maybe weed.....and when he looks out over the crowd they all look like fried chicken

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## afwjam

Well I can't help but be disappointed in the American people. We might disagree on certain issues, but Rand is a clear contrast to every other candidate.

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## AngryCanadian

I am sick of seeing Ben Carson.
Cant believe idiots still voted for a Nutcase!

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## francisco

> this dude is wasted......I say meth
> 
> Edit.  Maybe weed.....and when he looks out over the crowd they all look like fried chicken


Actually I wonder if there's a serious medical problem there. The uncontrolled action of Bill's tongue makes me wonder if he has incipient Parkinson's...or if he's on an antipsychotic drug that mimics Parkisonian symptoms.

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## CPUd

> What indicates to you that they knew something wasn't right by 5pm?


I'll have do dig deeper later this week to see if I can figure out exactly what, but around that time, Rubio's campaign started getting bolder in their statements about taking 3rd place, all the way up to going into the caucuses when they were all but guaranteeing it.  There are a whole slew of twitter accounts I watch from campaign volunteers who all went silent around that same time frame.

----------


## CPUd



----------


## limequat

> Yes. This is pretty much what the other side does.. Promise $#@!. Dont do it or do the opposite after elected. Say $#@! people want to hear. I'd do the same thing if winning was the goal and then do what you want after winning.
> 
> I want to ban all mexicans and arabs. I want to give everyone *100 dollar an hour wages. I want to give everyone free christian friendly porn. I like kittens.*


Money, Jesus, porn, and cats?  Hell, I'd vote for that.

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## jkob

well at least we beat jeb

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## Dianne

> Actually I wonder if there's a serious medical problem there. The uncontrolled action of Bill's tongue makes me wonder if he has incipient Parkinson's...or if he's on an antipsychotic drug that mimics Parkisonian symptoms.


I think it's Parkinson's.   Six years ago Larry King came straight out and asked him if he had it.  And last week, his hand started shaking uncontrollably while delivering a speech.  Or maybe he caught some super std from all those little 9 year old girls he and his best friend Jeffrey Epstein have orgies with.

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## Dianne

> The next debate Rand should be more like Trump.


I agree.

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## PaulConventionWV

If anyone wants to move to China, hit me up.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> At this point the only way for a liberty candidate to win the primary nomination for President is to just lie. Be the most Neo-Con/Evangelical Teo-Con hardline anti-immigrant as you can be in your talk, and when the other candidate question you on your "vote" flip flops (e.g. you vote straight liberty in Governor/Senate/etc.), just lie again. The American people are no different now than the retards in Idiocracy. It's plainly evident. The rub is though, that's a fleeting meaningless endeavor even if you win. Sure, you'll repeal EO's and preach from the pulpit the opposite that you did as a candidate and pardon non-violent folk, bring the troops home, etc. but, at the end of the day, Boobus will vote in the next authoritarian asshat and nothing will really have changed. This is why I laugh whenever someone suggests the lie or pander strategy instead of being a hardline libertarian, educate the public and try to win as what you are, etc. If we can win doing that, then we know we have something at least moderately sustainable. Ultimately though, screw national electoral politics. You want to know where the real power lay? Start getting elected to local boards/county commissions/state office and raising the big FU to the feds. Kick them out, enforce natural rights, nullify $#@!, raise Committees of Safety, etc.
> 
> It's easier for the feds to kill non-elected mundane folk. Much harder to do what they did to Finicum to elected Mayors, Governors, House Reps, County Commissioners, etc. Ultimately if there is going to be libertarian success it has to come from local power, not trying to get into the WH. The last decade of evidence is pretty concrete.


While the liberty movement stabs you in the back the entire time, eh?   Oh, nevermind.  They did that anyway to Rand.

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## Jan2017

> To be fair, just because you go to the rally in that county doesn't mean that you are actually a voter in that county.
> 
> I would be more concerned that the campaign didn't even have the 10K identified supporters show up let alone the extra change of people that aren't college students.  Seems to me that if you secured at least 10K students you would have a few extra votes from the general electorate to put your totals over 10K.  This is frustrating for sure.
> 
> Need to go back to the drawing board quick.


College campus precincts were overflowing with Ron supporters in '08, so surprising to see Rand with less than 700 votes in all of Johnson County (UIowa)
with such a large total GOP caucus turnout statewide.

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## Austrian Econ Disciple

> While the liberty movement stabs you in the back the entire time, eh?   Oh, nevermind.  They did that anyway to Rand.


You do realize how small a national electoral minority we are right? You don't need our votes to win. If winning was your entire goal (the Manchurians Manchurian), you'd lie your ass off and pander. Get in bed with Weekly Standard and Rupert Murdoch and eat up that yummy establishment media hype. I figure they're just as dumb and will eat your $#@! up no matter if you vote 100% pacifist. You can frame the issue however you want on whatever issue, you just have to make sure that you plumb the majority blocs. I mean for gods sake look at Donald freaking Trump. The guy is super progressive, but is doing extremely well in a national GOP election process lmao. You have Rand one of the most conservative people in the GOP, and he does crap in comparison. If winning was the only goal then damn well lie - who cares about our 5% of the GOP? But, like I said, that's a myopic vision, and will do nothing to advance liberty sustainability. You can accomplish much more with local power than trying to convince the rest of the nation to jump on board with you. At least locally you only need to convince a few thousand at most, and if you can get a strong group together you can do some impressive stuff (just look at FSP, local counties/cities in NH (Grafton, etc.), etc.).

----------

