# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  PBS Newshour story on living off the grid

## emazur

- building homes out of garbage
- powering said homes completely w/ solar power (except for $100/yr propane for stove)
- currently these homes, labor included, cost $300k, but DIY possible.  working on ways to cut the costs

This is the kind of thing that can unite leftists and libertarians.  Dude even had to fight government regulations to realize his creations
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/video/mo...30092009&seg=5

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## 0zzy

I'm too much of a powerhog to do this. but I like the idea!

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## tmosley

You can still live in an earthship while connected to the grid.  It will probably cut your bills in half or better, as you have almost no heating or cooling costs.

I use a lot of power myself, but I figured I would have solar for lighting and small gadgets, and use grid power for large appliances/computers/TVs.  I'm a media junkie, so I use a lot of power for that kind of stuff.

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## Uriel999

I want to build an earthship.

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## moostraks

Earthships are neat but I love cob houses. I want to get a piece of property and experiment with one, beginning with a yurt for temporary shelter. We own our home outright here so this would be for fun and experience...

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## 0zzy

> Earthships are neat but I love cob houses. I want to get a piece of property and experiment with one, beginning with a yurt for temporary shelter. We own our home outright here so this would be for fun and experience...


you own your home outright? no taxes? no limitations on what you can do on your property?

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## Dionysus

> you own your home outright? no taxes? no limitations on what you can do on your property?


Indeed. Land is rented from the government on a long term lease. That's what property taxes are. No one owns land. Period. You're also forced to come up with Bernanke Reserve Notes to occupy that slice of land. Cough them up every year, forever. Still think you own your land?

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## BenIsForRon

Thanks for posting the video.  We've been building houses for the past 60 years paying no attention to how much energy they use or what kind of environment they're in.  I'm looking forward to the future when every person is more mindful of nature and the local environment they're living in.

I mean, simply paying attention to your house's orientation to the sun can save you hundreds of dollars a year.  You could consider that a "conservative" way to build a home.

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## Firegirl

> you own your home outright? no taxes? no limitations on what you can do on your property?





> Indeed. Land is rented from the government on a long term lease. That's what property taxes are. No one owns land. Period. You're also forced to come up with Bernanke Reserve Notes to occupy that slice of land. Cough them up every year, forever. Still think you own your land?


Anyone heard of the word allodial?  Look it up.  It basically means owning something completely free and clear.  

Can anyone think of anything that is allodial property?  That you own without owing taxes, a mortgage, rent, etc. on that the government won't sieze if you owe them money?

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## Icymudpuppy

> Anyone heard of the word allodial?  Look it up.  It basically means owning something completely free and clear.  
> 
> Can anyone think of anything that is allodial property?  That you own without owing taxes, a mortgage, rent, etc. on that the government won't sieze if you owe them money?


The tools of my trade, my firearms, my bicycle, my tractor, my livestock, and many more, but those items I consider necessary for self sufficiency.  I don't really have to register my cars and trucks unless I want to drive it on public roads, so I guess they are allodial too.

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## fisharmor

> Thanks for posting the video.  We've been building houses for the past 60 years paying no attention to how much energy they use or what kind of environment they're in.  I'm looking forward to the future when every person is more mindful of nature and the local environment they're living in.


This is an oversimplification.  Sure, we haven't been making energy efficient homes.  But consider that there was not really a reason to be energy efficient before now.

It's all about economics.  The economics of the situation for the last 60 years have consistently called for cheap housing.  That means bargain-basement quality, and bargain-basement materials.

I live in a CMU house.  Until last fall, it had no central air and was on oil heat.  We got tired of pouring $2k a year into that oil tank, so we spent $14k on new windows (the 1950 originals were still in there last year!) and putting in central air.

Considering that our electric bill is now 25-300% higher than before, depending on the weather, just those improvements are going to take about 15 years to pay for themselves.  I'm looking at pressurized block-fill insulation companies now to see if I can get the electric bill lower, but with the added cost of that we're still looking at at least the same payoff time.

If the price of gas hadn't skyrocketed, we wouldn't have done ANY of this.  Reason being, we're polishing a turd.  Nobody is going to want to buy our house, except for developers, who will knock it down and put up a cheap, inefficient house which will sell overnight, considering our location.

If you really want to reverse this situation, then we really need to start pushing for zoning law change.  There's a reason Manhattan looks the way it does... and there's a concurrent reason why the Adirondacks look the way they do.  You could take 80% of America at this point and condense it into about 5% of the space it currently uses, just by revisiting zoning law.

Shopping centers are terrible.  Shopping centers with 1,000 apartments on top of them are better.  Shopping centers with 5,000 apartments on top and a subway station underneath are best.  And when we get back to doing that, when the real estate is highly valued, then efficiency is going to be a concern.

Not before.

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