# Think Tank > Austrian Economics / Economic Theory >  A side-by-side comparison of the Keynsian, Austrian, and Islamic economic paradigms

## ibaghdadi

This is a budding area of research for me, so I need your feedback dudes...



Click to view full image.

Thanks in advance

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## legion

I understand your basic argument, and agree it is true in secular Islamic nations; however, how do you rectify Islams beliefs on usury and speculation, which are a large part of modern economic systems?

I don't think you can compare Islam to Austrian/Keynesian Economics because Islam doesn't believe in the instruments being discussed by either -- namely the issuance of debt and securities.

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## Icymudpuppy

You leave out personal liberty.

Keynesian: The government owns you and can restrict how you care for your own body, thus drug laws, seatbelt laws, etc, and incarceration and restriction of your freedom.

Austrian: It's your body, do what you will with it, so long as you don't harm anyone else's life, liberty or property.

Islamic: Allah owns your body, and it is against Sharia to pollute your spirit's temple or use it in any way not in compliance with Allah's bidding.  You will be permanently restricted from ever using that body part in defiance of Allah's law again by Allah's government agents on earth.  Such defiance typically being punished by amputation or stoning.

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## ibaghdadi

> I understand your basic argument, and agree it is true in secular Islamic nations; however, how do you rectify Islams beliefs on usury and speculation, which are a large part of modern economic systems?


I wrote an article about this a couple months ago. It's a bit long and it's unedited and perhaps crudely written, but I hope you'll find it informative. (You'd be doing me a favor, in fact, by helping me edit/debug it).

You can find it here.

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## ibaghdadi

> You leave out personal liberty.


You're right, I should add a section on that. Thanks for pointing it out.

However, I think your general perceptions regarding this are kinda polluted by popular stereotypes.

Lemme see if I can do a good job explaining/summarizing this point.

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## hugolp

Very nice. When you read keynesian economics you realize its just neo-mercantilism.

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## rockandrollsouls

I don't understand why you are comparing economics to political/social beliefs. To be frank, I think it's stupid to generalize. Not all followers of Austrian economics are libertarian, nor Keynesians liberal. That's not to say there are aspects of these theories we associate with different parts of the political spectrum, but that's entirely different than what you're doing.

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## FreeTraveler

Just great!  I can see the headlines now.

Breaking news: Austrian Economics is the invention of Radical Muslim Terrorists!

You're trying to get us all sent to the FEMA labor camps, admit it.

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## LibertyIn08

*I think this is an outreach to show compatibility between Islam and libertarian economics, rather than any sort of attempt to cause imprisonment.*

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## legion

> I wrote an article about this a couple months ago. It's a bit long and it's unedited and perhaps crudely written, but I hope you'll find it informative. (You'd be doing me a favor, in fact, by helping me edit/debug it).
> 
> You can find it here.


I don't think the "Islamic Banks" described in the article are very Islamic. If banks gave loans to businesses for equity share at 0% interest, acting as "Venture Capitalists," this would seem to me to be gambling, or speculation.

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## ibaghdadi

> I don't think the "Islamic Banks" described in the article are very Islamic. If banks gave loans to businesses for equity share at 0% interest, acting as "Venture Capitalists," this would seem to me to be gambling, or speculation.


I guess terminology can hide a lot of fine details.

Speculation ("mudaraba") isn't illegal in Islam. What's illegal is gambling ("maysir") defined as a "chance play" where several parties pool in money, and depending upon a random event, one among them wins the pool. Basically what goes by the name "gambling", as in casinos, lotteries, bookies, etc.

"Mudaraba" is defined as a contract whereby a first party puts in capital, and a second party puts in their expertise and industry, with an understanding that profits are divided according to whatever percentages they agree to. This can happen with or without buying equity (it could be a one-time deal).

High risk doesn't make it illegal (it could make the investor an idiot, or the entrepreneur a genius, but doesn't make the transaction itself illegal).

You may be referring to speculating in currency or futures, which is sometimes seen to be illegal, not because of the "speculation" part, but the "futures" part (i.e. speculating in an illegal financial instrument).

Anyway, thanks for the read and the comments.

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## Icymudpuppy

> I guess terminology can hide a lot of fine details.
> 
> Speculation ("mudaraba") isn't illegal in Islam. What's illegal is gambling ("maysir") defined as a "chance play" .


Illegal gambling

Illegal alcohol

Illegal mind altering drugs of any kind

Illegal Porn

Illegal for women to associate with men other than family members

Illegal for women to go out in public without covering all but their face and in some cases their eyes...

Illegal other personal freedoms...

Have you put together an analysis about "Personal Liberty" yet in Islam?

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## tmosley

> Illegal gambling
> 
> Illegal alcohol
> 
> Illegal mind altering drugs of any kind
> 
> Illegal Porn
> 
> Illegal for women to associate with men other than family members
> ...


Wrong on unrelated issues means they are ALWAYS wrong?  

Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore vegetarianism is evil!  ONLY MEAT MAY BE EATEN!

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## Icymudpuppy

> Wrong on unrelated issues means they are ALWAYS wrong?  
> 
> Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore vegetarianism is evil!  ONLY MEAT MAY BE EATEN!


Personal liberty is just as important as economic liberty.

The OP is painting Islam as a perfect matchup with classical liberalism.  I am pointing out the area where they do not match up, and that is Personal liberty.

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## ibaghdadi

> Have you put together an analysis about "Personal Liberty" yet in Islam?


Working on it 

Challenge is to be brief but accurate.

Anyway just to clarify, my purpose isn't to show Islam to be "a perfect matchup with classical liberalism", but to explore how Islamic _economics_ is pretty close to Austrian economics.

But as you said personal liberty is important, so I'm working on that.

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