# News & Current Events > World News & Affairs >  Islamic group is CIA front, ex-Turkish intel chief says

## doodle

Romance with Islamists still continues?




> 01/ 5/2011 
> *Islamic group is CIA front, ex-Turkish intel chief says*
> 
> By Jeff Stein 
> A memoir by a top former Turkish intelligence official claims that a worldwide moderate Islamic movement based in Pennsylvania has been providing cover for the CIA since the mid-1990s.
> 
> The memoir, roughly rendered in English as Witness to Revolution and Near Anarchy, by retired Turkish intelligence official Osman Nuri Gundes, says the religious-tolerance movement, led by an influential former Turkish imam by the name of Fethullah Gulen, has 600 schools and 4 million followers around the world. 
> 
> In the 1990s, Gundes alleges, the movement "sheltered 130 CIA agents" at its schools in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan alone, according to a report on his memoir Wednesday by the Paris-based Intelligence Online newsletter.
> ...


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/spy...front_ex-.html

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## oyarde

> Romance with Islamists still continues?
> 
> 
> 
> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/spy...front_ex-.html


Anybody know anything about this Turkish ex intel  guy ?

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## pcosmar

> Anybody know anything about this Turkish ex intel  guy ?


Ask Sibel Edmonds

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## doodle

Don't know what to make of this.




> *Untangling the Bizarre CIA Links to the Ground Zero Mosque*
> 
> By Mark Ames
> September 10, 2010 | 2:36 p.m
> 
> +Enlarge Getty Images So far, the debate over the proposed Islamic center near Ground Zero has unfolded along predictable lines, with the man at the center of the project, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, drawing attacks from the right painting him as a terrorist sympathizer with ties to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. 
> 
> *But meanwhile,** links between the group behind the controversial mosque, the CIA and U.S. military establishment have gone unacknowledged.*
> 
> For instance, one of the earliest backers of the nonprofit group, the Cordoba Initiative, that is spearheading the Ground Zero mosque, is a 52-year-old Scarsdale, New York, native named R. Leslie Deak. In addition to serving on the group's board of advisors since its founding in 2004 by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Deak was its principal funder, donating $98,000 to the nonprofit between 2006 and 2008. This figure appears to represent organization's total operating budget—though, oddly, the group reported receipts of just a third of that total during the same time period.


http://www.observer.com/2010/politic...nd-zero-mosque

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## torchbearer

I thought you were talking about Al Qeada when i say the title.
Add this one to this list.

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## oyarde

Looks like this Gundes was Istanbul station Chief in the 90's when Gulen was wanted in Turkey and Turkey was attempting to get him back . So , there is at least a fifty percent chance this info is not good .

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## oyarde

Could be a quick way for him to sell some books in Turkey though , since he has one out and this claim is in it .

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## BlackTerrel

> Imam Gulen, “whose views are usually close to U.S. policy,” according to Intelligence Online, favors toleration of all religions, putting his movement in direct competition with al-Qaeda and other radical groups for the affection of Muslims across Central Asia, the Middle East and even Europe and Africa, where it has also expanded its reach.


Just to be clear this guy is claiming this CIA front is pro peace, pro tolerance, anti- Al Qaeda.

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## doodle

> Just to be clear this guy is claiming this CIA front is pro peace, pro tolerance, anti- Al Qaeda.


Kind of like that Imam guy behind ( or in front of) GZ mosque?

Or like the Afghan Islamic Mujahideens who were pro peace, pro tolerence while we were funding them few years ago...until they turned after we cut off their money and they became "anti peace" ?

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## vita3

Gulen is currently living in a compound in the woods in the Poconos. I bet 1% of Pensylvanians know this.

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## oyarde

> Gulen is currently living in a compound in the woods in the Poconos. I bet 1% of Pensylvanians know this.


Been there quite some time , If I recall.

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## oyarde

This guy is claiming 130 CIA early 90's in Kyrgystan & Uzbekistan . That does not sound like an authentic number at all .

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## oyarde

Figure CIA has maybe 20,000 people most of whom are geeks working in Virginia and other places . Not really many field agents , does not seem factual that there would have been that many in those two places . I suspect it is a lie .

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## doodle

> Ask Sibel Edmonds


Interesting character she is looking at her wiki page.

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## ExPatPaki

> Just to be clear this guy is claiming this CIA front is pro peace, pro tolerance, anti- Al Qaeda.


Sufi groups may be pro peace, pro tolerance and anti al Qaeda, because al Qaeda views Sufis as heretics, but they also have a very long history of fighting against Russians in the Caucasus.

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## OrganDonor

Everything is valid

Gulen is basically our weapon against Turkey. He is the unofficial leader of the Islamists in Turkey, his puppet being the prime minister. This man is in USA because we keep him safe and because he cannot step back into his own country. Turkey is a country that can be a world power again and our only way to fight countries such as these is causing chaos and seperatism within. That is where the CIA kicks in.

Sounds brutal but this is politics guys.

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## doodle

> Sufi groups may be pro peace, pro tolerance and anti al Qaeda, because al Qaeda views Sufis as heretics, but they also have a very long history of fighting against Russians in the Caucasus.


Do these Sufis fight Russians using hunger strikes like Ghandi or using violent weapons?

If Im not mistaken, muslims like jews follow Old Testament type doctrines which seem pretty violent compared to NT.

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## vita3

Organ Donor,

What about the Heroin w/ Gulen?

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## jmdrake

> Just to be clear this guy is claiming this CIA front is pro peace, pro tolerance, anti- Al Qaeda.


I remember during the Soviet / Afghan war a journalist who was pimping the mujahadeen was asked "But what if these people turn on us"?  His reply "These muslims are different".  The term "pro peace CIA front" is an oxymoron.

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## jmdrake

> Sufi groups may be pro peace, pro tolerance and anti al Qaeda, because al Qaeda views Sufis as heretics, but they also have a very long history of fighting against Russians in the Caucasus.


That's all correct.  Which is why it's said if they've let themselves be tarnished by association with the CIA.

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## jmdrake

A better methodology is friendship and trade with all and entangling alliances with none.  You know, the whole Ron Paul foreign policy?  It's the doctor's recommendation for avoiding geopolitical diarrhea also known as "blowback". 




> Everything is valid
> 
> Gulen is basically our weapon against Turkey. He is the unofficial leader of the Islamists in Turkey, his puppet being the prime minister. This man is in USA because we keep him safe and because he cannot step back into his own country. Turkey is a country that can be a world power again and our only way to fight countries such as these is causing chaos and seperatism within. That is where the CIA kicks in.
> 
> Sounds brutal but this is politics guys.

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## OrganDonor

> A better methodology is friendship and trade with all and entangling alliances with none.  You know, the whole Ron Paul foreign policy?  It's the doctor's recommendation for avoiding geopolitical diarrhea also known as "blowback".


A+

And friend above; I have no knowledge about Gulen concerning drugs. Whatever you heard is definitely wrong. The guy is a man of religion and whats to bring it back to his country which is currently causing massive chaos in Turkey - Exactly what the CIA wants.

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## ExPatPaki

> Do these Sufis fight Russians using hunger strikes like Ghandi or using violent weapons?


Here's a good article detailing the history about this which goes back to the late 18th century:

http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/Articles/chechnya.htm



> The history of Russian expansion into Caucasia - the remote, rugged, mountainous territory between the Black and Caspian Seas that is home to over 30 different ethnic groups--began in the late eighteenth century with Catherine the Greats attempts to forcibly annex the region. But the Russian invaders inspired fierce, unexpected resistance from a broad ethnic coalition of Caucasian Muslims who had united in loyalty to one spiritual leader - a Chechen Muslim mystic warrior named Shaykh Mansur Ushurma. Declaring the struggle a jihad, Shaykh Mansur and his Muslim mountaineers inflicted a crushing defeat on Czarist forces at the Sunzha River in 1785 and were briefly able to unite much of what is modern Daghestan and Chechnya under their rule.
> 
> Shaykh Mansur headed a branch of the Naqshbandi Sufi order, an Islamic mystical brotherhood that originated in fourteenth century Central Asia. Islamic mysticism - known as Sufism - spread quickly among both Muslims and non-Muslims in the Caucasus and Central Asia, largely through the missionary activities of itinerant Sufi scholars and mystics. These popular shaykhs (saints, literally "friends of God") often acquired reputations as miracle workers, and their tombs frequently became shrines (mazars) and pilgrimage sites. As recently as the late 1970s, Soviet authorities testified to the abiding attraction of these shrines, listing more than 70 active mazars in Daghestan and over 30 more in Chechnya. More traditional Muslim religious leaders often attacked the Sufi "cult of saints" for un-Islamic practices, but from early on in the Caucasus, Sufism helped attract converts to Islam at a popular level and offered a powerful source of spiritual guidance and social identity.

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## ExPatPaki

> A+
> The guy is a man of religion and whats to bring it back to his country which is currently causing massive chaos in Turkey - Exactly what the CIA wants.


True, but Turkey is already moving towards a more Islamic identity, especially with the removal of restrictions against the hijab and towards a less secular ideology. The current govt in Turkey is also called Islamist these days. Wouldn't the CIA/American government want a less religion-based government in Turkey that's more geared toward the West and less towards countries like Iran? Or maybe the CIA is promoting an our Islamist vs. their Islamist fight?

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## jmdrake

> True, but Turkey is already moving towards a more Islamic identity, especially with the removal of restrictions against the hijab and towards a less secular ideology. The current govt in Turkey is also called Islamist these days. Wouldn't the CIA/American government want a less religion-based government in Turkey that's more geared toward the West and less towards countries like Iran? Or maybe the CIA is promoting an our Islamist vs. their Islamist fight?


In Iraq we overthrew a secularist dictatorship and paved the way for Islamists to take over.  Our foreign policy doesn't always make sense to the naked eye.

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## vita3

I wouldn't mind hearing Michael Scheuer's take on Gulen.

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## OrganDonor

> True, but Turkey is already moving towards a more Islamic identity, especially with the removal of restrictions against the hijab and towards a less secular ideology. The current govt in Turkey is also called Islamist these days. Wouldn't the CIA/American government want a less religion-based government in Turkey that's more geared toward the West and less towards countries like Iran? Or maybe the CIA is promoting an our Islamist vs. their Islamist fight?


That is all incorrect. There is currently nothing Islamist about Turkey's govt at the moment except the people in charge trying to make the change happen. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Turkey is the leading country when it comes to overthrowing parties, military jumping in power.. etc.. Its nothing they havent experienced before.

The CIA.... lol.... What can I say about the CIA... haha... You guys keep missing the point. As always, they dont have a goal they are trying to reach, the point is to keep things going. Their plan is not promote islam in the country. It is to keep the chaos intact as long as possible so the country gets nowhere. If and when Islamists control a little more of the country then we support another party. Capisci?

They should put CIA's definition in the dictionary as "to promote chaos around the world" Havent you ever heard of the saying "Most if not all terrorist operations happening around the world is either done or supported by the CIA"

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## jmdrake

Ok.  I finally get what you're saying.  Order out of chaos.  Keep stirring crap up.  Yeah, that's our foreign policy.  




> That is all incorrect. There is currently nothing Islamist about Turkey's govt at the moment except the people in charge trying to make the change happen. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Turkey is the leading country when it comes to overthrowing parties, military jumping in power.. etc.. Its nothing they havent experienced before.
> 
> The CIA.... lol.... What can I say about the CIA... haha... You guys keep missing the point. As always, they dont have a goal they are trying to reach, the point is to keep things going. Their plan is not promote islam in the country. It is to keep the chaos intact as long as possible so the country gets nowhere. If and when Islamists control a little more of the country then we support another party. Capisci?
> 
> They should put CIA's definition in the dictionary as "to promote chaos around the world" Havent you ever heard of the saying "Most if not all terrorist operations happening around the world is either done or supported by the CIA"

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## ExPatPaki

> There is currently nothing Islamist about Turkey's govt at the moment except the people in charge trying to make the change happen.


I agree that they are not "Islamist" currently, but the media pundits do call them "Islamist" due to their pro-Iran, anti-Israel stance. Interestingly, this Gullen fellow has a little pro-Israel streak to him.




> Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Turkey is the leading country when it comes to overthrowing parties, military jumping in power..


I would say Pakistan is the leading country with military coups.

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## doodle

Is there a complete list somewhere of all the Islamist groups we fund currently  or have funded in recent decades?

Besides the openly known facts of us funding Islamists in Iraq currently and Islamists in Afghanistan, Russia, Israel in recent past directly or via proxies.

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## vita3

didn't we back the muslims in Bosnia?

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## oyarde

> didn't we back the muslims in Bosnia?


What a mess that was . Bosnian Muslims were probably about 40 % , Serbs & Croatians about 50 % . The Serbs looked to Milosevic , the Croats to the facsist Tudman . Cluster .

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## doodle

> didn't we back the muslims in Bosnia?


and in Iraq and Afghanistan among other places.

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