# Liberty Movement > Defenders of Liberty > Justin Amash Forum >  Justin Amash for U.S. Senate (R-MI) 2012

## aspiringconstitutionalist

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...75367525843432

Join, and invite your friends!

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## Brett85

Who would he be running against?

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## eduardo89

I'd love to have Senators Paul, Lee and Amash!

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## Son of Detroit

> Who would he be running against?


Debbie Stabenow.  Basically your standard pro-government Democrat.

22% economic liberty rating in the Liberty Index
50% personal liberty rating in the Liberty Index

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## eduardo89

The good thing is Michigan has gone very red in the last 2 years, it'd winnable!

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## Bergie Bergeron

We need good people in the House..

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## eduardo89

> We need good people in the House..


We need more good people in the Senate. Senators have much more power and longer terms.

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## aspiringconstitutionalist

> We need good people in the House..


As an incumbent, Amash could use his clout to get a libertarian into his House seat as he was moving into his Senate seat.

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## eduardo89

> As an incumbent, Amash could use his clout to get a libertarian into his House seat as he was moving into his Senate seat.


Exactly, an incumbent's endorsement can win you the primary pretty easily. and that district is GOP-leaning and obviously willing to elect a liberty candidate.

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## low preference guy

> As an incumbent, Amash could use his clout to get a libertarian into his House seat as he was moving into his Senate seat.


Before that, a libertarian willing to run should exist in his district.

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## Flash

So if he runs for the Senate, he'll have to automatically surrender his seat in the House, right?

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## eduardo89

> So if he runs for the Senate, he'll have to automatically surrender his seat in the House, right?


He can run in the primary without having to give up his seat I believe.

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## Brent Pierce

If my home state has an ounce of sense it will reject the liberal statist trajectory it has been on for years and embrace Amash. They are the only state in the union whose population is shrinking.

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## enrique

He could run for both but it would look bad. There are a lot of people who were not excited about a 30 year old upstart 'taking' a congressional seat. I think his election should be viewed as a testament to his politically saavy skills. MI-3 (which will change next year) is not especially prone to elect 'liberty candidates'. 

The election in 2012 will be very much about Obama than Stabenow no matter how terrible she is (and she's awful). Levin's seat is up in 2016 but he's an incumbent. He might not run again either. I sort of hope he sticks it out in the House for a while longer and try and quietly gain some street cred before jumping to another office.

It also might look bad running for a higher office after only 2 years in state house, 2 years in US House and then senate. There would be a lot of tough competition in a primary, not to mention a general.

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## angelatc

> He could run for both but it would look bad. There are a lot of people who were not excited about a 30 year old upstart 'taking' a congressional seat. I think his election should be viewed as a testament to his politically saavy skills. MI-3 (which will change next year) is not especially prone to elect 'liberty candidates'. 
> 
> The election in 2012 will be very much about Obama than Stabenow no matter how terrible she is (and she's awful). Levin's seat is up in 2016 but he's an incumbent. He might not run again either. I sort of hope he sticks it out in the House for a while longer and try and quietly gain some street cred before jumping to another office.
> 
> It also might look bad running for a higher office after only 2 years in state house, 2 years in US House and then senate. There would be a lot of tough competition in a primary, not to mention a general.


Yeah, I think Mike Rogers might give it a go.  I really, really don't like him.  He's ex-CIA, so he's a big law & order type. Chills.

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## brenden.b

Yeah...I'm not so sure if I'm ready for Amash to be running for U.S. Senate. While it is a great opportunity against Stabenow, I'm not sure if now is the time for him to move up. While he would have much great influence in the U.S. Senate, I'm not sure about the road getting there. 2016 may be a better opportunity, in the case that Levin does retire.

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## angelatc

> Yeah...I'm not so sure if I'm ready for Amash to be running for U.S. Senate. While it is a great opportunity against Stabenow, I'm not sure if now is the time for him to move up. While he would have much great influence in the U.S. Senate, I'm not sure about the road getting there. 2016 may be a better opportunity, in the case that Levin does retire.


But there's Sander Levin in the House ready to move up.  That's a powerful machine to topple.

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## aspiringconstitutionalist

Plenty of people move from the state house or state senate to the US Senate.  Some people even get into the US Senate with no prior elected office at all, and we never say it's too early for them.  Amash is already a federal congressman.  He's more than qualified to move up to US Senate at any time he wants.  

Besides, if not Amash for Senate in 2012, then who??

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## brenden.b

> But there's Sander Levin in the House ready to move up.  That's a powerful machine to topple.


So, are you in favor of Amash running for Senate in 2012? I'm not entirely against it, I'm just curious about his chances, and who else is going to jump in the race. I would support him 100% if he decided to run.

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## Agorism

I hate this guy's foreign policy views. I think it's best to ignore him.

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## angelatc

> So, are you in favor of Amash running for Senate in 2012? I'm not entirely against it, I'm just curious about his chances, and who else is going to jump in the race. I would support him 100% if he decided to run.


I'll support any choice that he makes, that's for sure.  And this might be his best chance.  Neocons are forever....if one grabbed that seat, there'd be no getting 'em  out of it.  

In my heart, I'm not sure he can win.  But I have a lousy prediction rate, so that means very little.

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## brenden.b

> I hate this guy's foreign policy views. I think it's best to ignore him.


What the hell are you talking about?

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## brenden.b

> I'll support any choice that he makes, that's for sure.  And this might be his best chance.  Neocons are forever....if one grabbed that seat, there'd be no getting 'em  out of it.  
> 
> In my heart, I'm not sure he can win.  But I have a lousy prediction rate, so that means very little.


I would assume Mike Rogers is going to try and run, and he will pretty well control the Detroit area. I mean, really, what it will come down to is an Detroit vs. West Michigan battle if it were between Amash and Rogers. Unfortunately, that is a battle that West Michigan cannot win. The Detroit area vote would definitely have to be split...

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## Agorism

Amash voted for Iraq war funding recently. He also keeps quiet on foreign policy views to not offend Paul supporters.

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## brenden.b

> Amash voted for Iraq war funding recently. He also keeps quiet on foreign policy views to not offend Paul supporters.


Show me the vote. I can show you more examples of where he has voted against war funding and where on his Facebook page he has stated that it is time to end the wars and bring the troops home. Do your research on this board, research his full voting record, research his Facebook page and look at his explanation for his votes before you make idiotic statements.

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## angelatc

> What the hell are you talking about?


He's just one small step up from a troll.  Don't let him hijack the conversation, please.

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## brenden.b

> He's just one small step up from a troll.  Don't let him hijack the conversation, please.


Point taken. Ignore on.

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## Agorism

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/19/s...ar-falls-short

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll091.xml


Amash did not vote with Paul and Duncan



> Surprise House Effort to Defund Afghan War Falls Short
> Rep. Nadler Led Push That Split Dem Reps Down the Middle
> by Jason Ditz, February 19, 2011
> 
> A surprising (and little discussed) effort by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D – NY) to defund the Afghan War was brought before the House of Representatives yesterday, and unfortunately fell well short of its goal, with a 98-331 failure. The vote is still interesting on a number of fronts, however.
> 
> The vote would have attached an amendment to the budget which would reduce the Afghan War spending from the $100+ billion it currently costs annually to a level of $10 billion, which is the amount the Pentagon insists it would cost to withdraw the troops from the nation.
> 
> Notably, however, the vote was surprisingly close amongst Democratic Congressmen, with 91 voting in favor of ending the occupation to 99 voting against. It was the Republican side which saw overwhelming rejection, *with only 7 GOP Congressmen voting to end the war (Reps. Campbell, Coble, Duncan, Johnson, Jones, Paul and Rohrabacher).*
> ...



http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/79045.html





> On war, the most important issue. In the tenth year of a ridiculous, illegal, and completely counterproductive war of aggression, Justin Amash, a Michigan freshman Congressman with some libertarian leanings whom I was told to keep an eye on, joined the 97% of his party in the House voting against a completely reasonable and moderate plan to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
> 
> As an aside, this alone would have saved $100 billion a year. Another epic fail from the Tea Party.
> 
> Update: I probably could have written this more charitably. The post is about how bad the Republicans are, which I stand by, and conveys my disappointment that Amash voted the way he did, and I am still disappointed. But it was pointed out to me that the post appears to single him out for being particularly bad or warmongering, which I don’t think he is. I still don’t think he’s antiwar enough—or in the way I’d prefer him to be—because I think voting yes was just the right course of action, even knowing the amendment would fail. Other statements of his about foreign policy have made me think that he is not as urgent on these issues as I’d like to see. I think a Congressman should, at a minimum, vote for all peaceful withdrawal options pretty much without exception, with the goal of bringing home all U.S. troops from all over the world. Maybe three or four per embassy is OK, but that’s it—from a constitutionalist perspective, to say nothing of radical libertarianism.
> 
> Amash almost surely does oppose the war more than almost any other Republican, which I believe just shows how hopeless that party is as an engine of peace, and therefore as an engine of liberty or anything useful at all. Nevertheless, I was too quick to publish this as is. I was sad that even Amash voted for this, and much disappointed in the vote, but I shouldn’t single him out in a post about how Republicans are as bad as ever when he is one of the very least bad. Not without clarification.

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## angelatc

> I would assume Mike Rogers is going to try and run, and he will pretty well control the Detroit area. I mean, really, what it will come down to is an Detroit vs. West Michigan battle if it were between Amash and Rogers. Unfortunately, that is a battle that West Michigan cannot win. The Detroit area vote would definitely have to be split...


It will indeed be a fight, Brendan.  I'm involved with the GOP and the local TEA Party.  There are a lot of Ron Paul supporters in the TEA Party here, even though we're right here in the middle of Rogers country.  (The GOP loves Rogers though. Don't get me wrong.  )  

I'd rather see Rogers lose his seat than Amash....especially if the GOP goes on to lose the general.

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## Agorism

This guy is a professional pol rank riser.. He voted against the Patriot Act, but if the leaders needed votes, I bet his arm could have been pulled pretty easily.

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## brenden.b

> It will indeed be a fight, Brendan.  I'm involved with the GOP and the local TEA Party.  There are a lot of Ron Paul supporters in the TEA Party here, even though we're right here in the middle of Rogers country.  (The GOP loves Rogers though. Don't get me wrong.  )  
> 
> I'd rather see Rogers lose his seat than Amash....especially if the GOP goes on to lose the general.


I guess that's the thing. Wouldn't Amash have to drop out of the race for the 3rd District to run for Senate. I have this feeling that the GOP establishment in Grand Rapids will try to Primary Amash with some establishment trash, which would seriously complicate matters. If it a large field for the GOP for Senate in 2012, I think Amash would have a chance, but if it is one on one, I'm not so sure...

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## aspiringconstitutionalist

Leave a message in Amash's Facebook page, asking him to run for Senate in 2012!  http://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash

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## enrique

He's probably best avoiding a senate battle. He doesn't have enough GOP creds to run a statewide campaign. Of course, he has knocked off the establishment candidates twice in a row. I guess I worry more about him trying to move up. It would be a shame to have him back in the private sector so soon after starting to change the culture of legislators. 

I'm sure he's considered it but Levin's seat is up in 2016 and I think I saw somewhere that he'd be 80. Sander Levin is his younger brother so doubtful he'd compete for the seat. I feel these races are so dependent on the type of party year in Michigan recently. Even Levin would have been vulnerable in 2010.  We've really become a bluish purple hue state.

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## aspiringconstitutionalist

Regardless, if we make enough of a fuss about Amash potentially running for Senate, an organization will be bound to do some polling with his name in it.  Then we'll be able to see just how electable he is.  If it turns out he can't get elected this go-around, he can just stick with his House seat.  It can't hurt to just get the ball rolling and get the lay of the land.  Besides, if not Amash in 2012, then who?

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## enrique

Well, it certainly wouldn't hurt to get his name mentioned more often. I think he's on something of a meteoric rise politically simply by being totally transparent and doing what he says. There is definitely a constituency that loves his libertarianism that is more low key than Paul's.

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## Brett85

> http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/19/s...ar-falls-short
> 
> http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll091.xml
> 
> 
> Amash did not vote with Paul and Duncan
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/79045.html


Justin explained this on his facebook page.  He voted against the amendment because he didn't have time to even read it, and he didn't know whether this amendment was the best way to bring our troops home or not.  I'm opposed to the war in Afghanistan, and even I wouldn't have voted for this amendment when it contained 10 billion worth of war funding.  I wouldn't spend another dime on these wars.  Apparently you would.

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## Agorism

> Justin explained this on his facebook page. He voted against the amendment because he didn't have time to even read it, and he didn't know whether this amendment was the best way to bring our troops home or not. I'm opposed to the war in Afghanistan, and even I wouldn't have voted for this amendment when it contained 10 billion worth of war funding. I wouldn't spend another dime on these wars. Apparently you would.


Link?

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## angelatc

> I guess that's the thing. Wouldn't Amash have to drop out of the race for the 3rd District to run for Senate. I have this feeling that the GOP establishment in Grand Rapids will try to Primary Amash with some establishment trash, which would seriously complicate matters. If it a large field for the GOP for Senate in 2012, I think Amash would have a chance, but if it is one on one, I'm not so sure...


I'm hardly an expert in Michigan election procedures, but IIRC only Texas allows candidates to run for one office while still holding another.  And seriously, you'd have to be a super candidate to campaign for both seats simultaneously through the primaries and again through the general.

Obviously sliding Amash into that seat would be amazing.  But if Rogers steps up (and I expect him to) I don't know if Amash could beat him. Mike is a strong candidate, as unfortunate as that is.

If MIke does step up, I'd like to see Joe Hune step into the US House.  He's not entirely one of us, but he's close enough to satiate everybody but the purists.   The only thing I"ve seen him do so far that I disagree was the vote for the Hollywood Tax Credit (and he said he regrets it) plus he's currently supporting a taxpayer handout to the Michigan tourism board.   I'm gonna call him about that.

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## angelatc

> Link?


www.facebook.com

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## angelatc

> . Sander Levin is his younger brother so doubtful he'd compete for the seat. I feel these races are so dependent on the type of party year in Michigan recently. Even Levin would have been vulnerable in 2010.  We've really become a bluish purple hue state.


Holy smokes - you're right. And according to Wiki, Sander is the older brother!  I had it in my mind that Sander was Carl's nephew.  I was totally off base on that.

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## Brett85

> Link?


http://www.facebook.com/repjustinama...95152627175603

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## aspiringconstitutionalist

Like I said, there's no harm in making a ruckus about Amash for Senate, which will get his name included in a couple statewide polls, and then we can see for sure if Amash could pull it off.  If he can't, then he doesn't have to run.  He can stick with his House seat.  But if the polls show he could pull it off, then we've got ourselves a viable Senate candidate.  No harm, no foul.  So join the Facebook group, invite your friends, and let's see what happens.

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## AJ Antimony

This is a tough one.

On one hand, this could be the best opportunity he will ever have to win a US Senate seat.

On the other hand, he's already won 2 elections he wasn't supposed to win... Does he really want to keep pushing his luck?

Ultimately, I think he should slow it down and pass on this Senate race. Maybe some polls would change my mind, but as of right now, I think the smart thing to do is pass on the Senate run in 2012.

One poster keeps using ridiculous logic by continually asking "if not Justin, who else?" If there are no candidates in Michigan, then there are no candidates in Michigan. We're not obligated to run a candidate in Michigan. If we can't run a liberty candidate in Michigan in 2012, then oh well, pick one of the other Senate races to focus on.

This wouldn't be the first time the liberty movement missed an opportunity.

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