# Lifestyles & Discussion > Science & Technology >  GTA 5 Torture - Unskippable?  Return?

## The Free Hornet

Tuesday I purchased this PS3 GTA5 bundle and today I encountered an unskippable torture mission that has my console frozen.

Although not much of a gamer, I'll play the same game intensely for hundreds of hours.  GTA 4 (Vice City) was a hoot and I enjoyed every aspect although I never tried the "Hot Coffee" thing.

Random violence and controversy is OK.  What *I* object to in this mission is that game advancement requires the player to perform the (virtual) torture.  "Hold R2 to grip a tooth".  Beyond teeth, there is a pipe wrench, electrocution, and waterboarding with gasoline (or pouring a flammable liquid over the victim - based on reviews as I'm not started the 'tooth thing').

The game is also falsely promoted as allowing you to play one of three thugs to complete the missions and to freely switch among them.  What I've seen thusly is that there is no "freedom" about it.  You play whatever thug they make you play or the mission is failed and game advancement stops.

So this isn't a freedom issue per se, but more of crappy product I'd rather not support with my wallet.

Anyway, just venting 'cause I feel like a major wuss as I really really like the game but can't bring myself to accept this particular aspect of the game.  Early in the game, one of thugs you play curb stomps to death a rival, but that is a 'cut scene'.  You don't have to watch it or "Press R2 to curb stomp the skull" and I think many/most cut scenes are skippable.  There is usually a degree of freedom.  However violent, the game also has its own artifical boundaries.  In a city where you can attack or hit-n-run millions of pedestrians, there are no children.  What are the odds?  No children at all in a city the size of LA.  Rockstar has its limits too.  Maybe GTA6 will cross that barrier.

Of course, the usual parties are aligned against the game:

http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...-torture-scene

Gamers are rightly defensive in their forums.  However, I fear they are defending poor gameplay masked as artistic freedom.  Also, it is my understanding that Rockstar is trying to make an anti-torture point.  Presumably, the torturer has a confessional of sorts upon realizing that the only information they got was bad.

Somehow, I'm not sure if that is how it plays out with the real people who torture.

I notified Best Buy of an intent to return and will see how they respond to my email.  Maybe they can send someone from Geek Squad to get past this point in the mission.  There is no software patch AFAIK but I did make that request too.  I really like the game and wanted to get other games for it.  Given the choice of returning it or engaging in virtual torture, I'm siding with returning it.

They won't cry about the return as this game will cross a billion in sales no problem.  Maybe Best Buy or Sony won't like it.

As a general comment on the PS3 GTA5 bundle itself.  The Blu-ray player does A LOT of constant and noisy access for a game that installs 8GB of data.  Why it can't install all the damn data and just use the disk to authenticate on startup or install, I don't know.  It is 500 GB of nearly empty space and a disk drive that sounds like it is gasping to grab that data.  If anything, that ought to be the complaint.  It comes with a 500 GB hard drive, but playing an installed game requires the disk to be constantly thrashed.  Lame.  It is offensive enough that the disk has to be in the console to play the game (I remember when you installed and could put the disk back in the box forever).  Another reason to be a pirate...

As for returning for full credit with not stocking fee, this was a game system purchase with a game and not a game with a system.  More so, I paid with a credit card so there is that.

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## Feeding the Abscess

PS3 isn't capable of completely installing games. Would have been nice had it been set up that way, though. GTA IV, Vice City, and the game with the San Andreas mods were all separate games, but that's minor. Have you put your system online? There may be a patch available for GTA V.

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## Nastynate

This is the video of the entire mission you speak of. I'm surprised to say the least that torturing someone is what sets GTA over the edge of unacceptable in your book. Its not like it was some propaganda thing either, go to 20:32 on that video and you'll see the torturee and Trevor having a conversation about how there was no need for the torture but because Trevor is a psyopath he enjoyed it.

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## The Free Hornet

> PS3 isn't capable of completely installing games. Would have been nice had it been set up that way, though. GTA IV, Vice City, and the game with the San Andreas mods were all separate games, but that's minor. Have you put your system online? There may be a patch available for GTA V.


I haven't gone online yet and wasn't planning to unless they patched that torture issue up (or to unlock a goodie like the blimp).  I played the game on mute for several minutes and the disc access never lets up.  The technical capability to play just from hard drive has to be there else the download purchase wouldn't exist.  I blame DRM for ruining another product.  The download for people who buy through the online store is over 30 GB but ironically that too is suffering performance issues as people show side-by-sides of the play stuttering.  I guess they optimized the read from disc better than from hard drive.  That seems baffling unless the HD is busy pulling one set of info why the disc another so that the comparison is HD+disc versus HD alone.

I sent an email to the Best Buy contact that had confirmed pickup of the console.  The address I used was previously signed by a real person ("Sincerely, Lisa *****, Vice President, Best Buy Customer Care).  However, it resulted in an auto reply that suggested a web page which suggests I contact them via a different email address.

Torture to me is a company that sends emails - and insisted on mine at purchase - but doesn't respond to emails.  F' em.  The PS3 is packed up, in the blue bag, and going back to the store tomorrow.  Maybe I'll buy one again but at least I'll know what I'm getting.  I'd like for Rockstar to think more clearly about what lines it crosses and how it does so.  There are allegations they stuff like this specifically for the negative publicity.  It shouldn't be without consumer blowback.

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## The Free Hornet

> This is the video of the entire mission you speak of. I'm surprised to say the least that torturing someone is what sets GTA over the edge of unacceptable in your book.


Yes it is surprising.  The game is about running around killing people and then evading the cops, guards.  At least your victims fight back and weren't duct-taped to a chair.  But that is how the game used to work.  You also generally select your weapon and control your character's action in several dimensions.  This includes aiming.  Bonus points for headshots!

However the torture mission/action is not "playing" it is more like a Milgram Experiment where you press a button to torture.

It also differs from normal gameplay in that there is no option for "failure".  Most missions you can die or time out of and then at least get an option to cancel, skip, replay.  You CANNOT control your character's motion at this point, leave the area, or elect not to torture.  It presents one option:






> Its not like it was some propaganda thing either, go to 20:32 on that video and you'll see the torturee and Trevor having a conversation about how there was no need for the torture but because Trevor is a psyopath he enjoyed it.


Yes, I've read about the anti-torture message that comes ... 20 minutes later (seriously? I won't watch the video as I avoid watching torture real or fake).

R* is sending one message, I'm sending my PS3 back.

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## V3n

It's all pretend anyway.. just imagine you're doing him a favor.  Say he's got a rotten tooth like Tom Hanks in Castaway, and he really wants it out but can't afford to go to the Dentist because of the Affordable Care Act.

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## kcchiefs6465

Call of Duty has had torture scenes and virtual murders for years. In fact playing the campaign the other day on BO2 you were given the option of executing the person your team was torturing. You had to tap "x" rapidly to "fight the urge." I think the story changes whether or not you kill the person. I didn't feel like destroying my "x" button so what the hell?.. execution it was. On a side note I believe you are fighting with the Contras. If some of their atrocities are shown as negatively as I've so far seen, that's good with me.

GTAV isn't really crossing some bar that other games haven't already crossed. I would also imagine much worse if you continued playing. There were some crazy missions in their last few games but they are slipping my mind. It's kind of lame you can't choose who you play as though.

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## fr33

LOL I just saw this on twitter. Apparently they have a Luke Rudkowski type of radio host on the new GTA.

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## fisharmor

> However, I fear they are defending poor gameplay masked as artistic freedom.





> You had to tap "x" rapidly to "fight the urge."


...Yeah, I am not a huge gamer, and this is why.
Cut scenes are crap.
Quick time events are crap.
The industry figured out in the late 90's with Tribes that FPS in three dimensions kicks the crap out of COD style games.
Or,  you could go MMO... yeah, the first time I saw EverQuest I thought "all  he's doing is clicking a mouse repeatedly" and never bit on that.

I'm really intrigued by War Thunder, but I don't have hardware that can run it... and that's PC anyway.
The last game that inspired me to go out and buy a console was Pikmin.  Literally nothing else has captured my attention.

Pulling out people's teeth isn't going to do it for me.  I need... you know... a game.

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## kcchiefs6465

I leave for the cut scenes. No way in hell I'm watching multiple 5-10 multiple clips you can't skip. I go do something else and come back later.

Mostly I play online though. I've had the game [BO2] for months and haven't beaten but about 30% of the campaign. It's too boring.

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## fr33

I don't get why torture would be your line in the sand if you're a fan of GTA.

Anyways, I've got to get this game. There's Aliens, chimps, and bigfoot.

I'm not a big time gamer so since this game has been released I'm finally getting around to finishing the last one "Episodes from Liberty City", after years of not playing it, so I can justify going out an buying the new one.

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## James Madison

Anyone played Spec Ops: The Line?

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## ClydeCoulter

Hey, this is Josh, Clyde's son:

[SPOILER ALERT] 
In relation to the torture scene in GTA V, I'm not sure if the creators intended it to be enjoyable, but I, personally did not find it to be. The FIB (FBI) forces the three main characters to do several unpleasant tasks throughout the course of the game, this being one of them. I can see where you're coming from but I must say, It's horrible, but not all in all evil or corrupting to the player. Immediately following the torture Trevor has to take the tortured person to the airport to be deported, on the ride to the airport Trevor talks to the man about how he can now be an anti-torture advocate as they got no information out of him that he would not have just given them, the man agrees, then Trevor proceeds to talk about the downsides to torture and it's lack of usefulness. 

I found it extremely disturbing, but that may have been the feeling that R* was going for, putting you in the place of someone forced to be a torturer.

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## The Free Hornet

> I don't get why torture would be your line in the sand if you're a fan of GTA.


It's a dotted line as I just returned and rebought the game.

I returned the PS3 GTA 5 w/ 500 GB HD bundle ($260, but $290 in Crook County w/ tax).

Instead I opted for the lame-o PS3 12 GB Flash version ($200).  I added a $80 128GB SSD and downloaded the PSN version of GTA 5 ($60).  All free shipping, all free of sales tax.  So I'm in for $340 instead of $290 but this setup is twice as fast loading up (approx.) and *SILENT!*  No more constant whirly whine of the disc.  The 12GB of flash is disabled upon recognition of the SSD in the empty 2.5" slot (once you accept the prompt, it copies over the necessary files plus 4 GB that was some swap space or something).  There is a $15 bracket you can buy to ease installation but I used a wadded up piece of dirty paper towel instead.  Yeah, I'm all about value.

My natual inclination is to prefer a disc, but if you can't install it to a drive and put the disc on the shelf, then it really starts to lose appeal.  GTA5 didn't just use the disc for authentication but to augment the crappy performance of the original PS3 hard drives (5400 RPM).

There was a link showing a good comparison of PS3 disc vs hd vs ssd vs 12gb for GTA5 and maybe some other games but I can't find it at the moment.  Here is a similar link:

http://community.us.playstation.com/...d/td-p/5734185
(HHD vs SSD but it is a fews years old and SSDs have gotten better faster cheaper).


Here are the links if you are considering a PS3 system purchase and the benefits of SSD:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df...er-slim-review

These two videos are good too (SSD vs HD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrfNLbMFghY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAhiN1NGrKI

I'd be playing right now but I'm at work and stuck posting on RPF for "fun".

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