# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  Ex LAPD cop murders Ex LAPD captain's daughter & fiance as revenge for Thin Blue Line

## noneedtoaggress

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/brea...d-officer-bent

It looks like the FBI is getting involved now. He's also Ex Navy and seems to be on some sort of mission to disrupt the LAPD.

This article gives insight into the backstory of his motive. It appears he felt the Thin Blue Line was effectively employed against him:




> A man identified Wednesday as the suspect in the slayings of a college basketball coach and her fiance is a former LAPD Harbor Division police officer fired for falsely accusing his sergeant for kicking a man at a San Pedro hotel.
> 
> According to an online manifesto, Christopher Jordan Dorner of La Palma might have committed the double-homicide out of revenge for his dismissal from the force.
> 
> "Suppressing the truth will lead to deadly consequences for you and your family," according to an excerpt of the manifesto posted on the KTLA news website. "There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat, and sleep."
> 
> Dorner was charged by his own department in 2007 with making false statements to detectives investigating
> 
> 
> ...


More stories:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6277685.story

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...spect/1897813/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/07...-coach-fiance/

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Haven't read this yet but it's supposed to be his manifesto:




> From: Christopher Jordan Dorner /7648
> 
> To: America
> 
> Subj: Last resort
> 
> Regarding CF# 07-004281
> 
> I know most of you who personally know me are in disbelief to hear from media reports that I am suspected of committing such horrendous murders and have taken drastic and shocking actions in the last couple of days. You are saying to yourself that this is completely out of character of the man you knew who always wore a smile wherever he was seen. I know I will be vilified by the LAPD and the media. Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name. The department has not changed since the Rampart and Rodney King days. It has gotten worse. The consent decree should never have been lifted. The only thing that has evolved from the consent decree is those officers involved in the Rampart scandal and Rodney King incidents have since promoted to supervisor, commanders, and command staff, and executive positions.
> ...

----------


## Expatriate

> http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/brea...d-officer-bent
> 
> It looks like the FBI is getting involved now. He's also Ex Navy and seems to be on some sort of mission to disrupt the LAPD.
> 
> This article gives insight into the backstory of his motive. It appears he felt the Thin Blue Line was effectively employed against him:


SO... a cop can lose his job for saying his partner kicked someone, but if he kills/abuses an innocent person for no good reason he gets a paid vacation?

Not backing up this guy's actions, just pointing out the hypocrisy.

----------


## RickyJ

He is a sicko. Attacking innocent people instead of the person he has the problem with. Sounds just like our crazy nation to be honest.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Okay I just read his "manifesto".

*HOLY. $#@!.*

Clearly he's going about this the wrong way by killing innocent people, but I still feel bad for the guy on some level. He's got some legitimate grievances. It would appear the LAPD just snapped him in half. He's essentially declaring war on them for their corruption, which unfortunately appears to includes some of their innocent family members.

It's really sad.

I just hope this actually ends up shedding some light on the corrupt LAPD, instead of becoming a circus about an "psycho ex cop" who just went nuts in revenge with nothing resolved concerning what lead to it happening. This is his blowback.

----------


## squarepusher

How does this support his claim that another officer did use excessive force, if he is now a double murderer of 2 innocent people?  Makes him look like a wacko, although I do not know why he would lie about an excessive force claim.

However, killing 2 innocent people does not give you credibility which is his flaw as he wont do anything to correct the problem.  If anything it makes LAPD look like they made the right decision by terminating him.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Yeah, his course of actions are truly an unfortunate outcome of the situation.

----------


## squarepusher

> Yeah, his course of actions are truly an unfortunate outcome of the situation.


No, he is an insane man, completely separate from whatever may have happened in 2006 and his termination.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

WTF? How does that even negate what I said. Even if he is "insane" his course of actions is an unfortunate result of his life experiences. Are you saying this was completely unprovoked and he's simply killing people to satisfy some mental urge? If that were the case and it were not the result of his experiences wouldn't he picked someone at random?

"Mental Illness" is a fiction in the first place (check out some of what Dr. Thomas Szasz wrote), as far as I'm concerned. This guy was trained to kill and felt he was personally wronged in a deep way and is clearly disturbed by a culture of corruption, and decided to go on a personal war over it because, in his subjective mind, it was his last and only resort to bring attention to and stop corrupt practices. That much is obvious by what he wrote. Clearly his resulting actions are also immoral, corrupt in themselves by a desire for vengeance, and it's utterly unfortunate as it works against him and results in loss of life of innocent people who are extremely loosely connected to the situation at all. He was trained to go to war, and that's exactly what he thinks he's doing after reaching the end of his rope.

Saying his actions are not the result of his experiences with what happened at the LAPD, no matter how wrong they are, is pretty ridiculous.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

And in case I have to make it this clear. I'm not defending his immoral actions. Any of them, including when he was exercising force as a law enforcement officer. At the end of the day the guy was a thug and his entire life has been built around initiating force as an agent of authority, in a way he perceived to be legitimately using force for good. It should be obvious enough that two wrongs don't make a right.

And at the end of the day I realize that everyone is human too. The corrupt cops with selfish ambitions, and the cops that defy corruption and are destroyed by it, and especially the innocent people at the periphery. This guy was destroyed by it profoundly and lashed out in a violent way. I know, in a third hand sort of way, what the LAPD does to officers who attempt to speak out against it's corrupt practices. They will try to destroy you. It appears they succeeded here.

All I'm saying is there is more to this story than "psycho ex cop murders people", and hopefully that comes up to the surface.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

A tragic story that could have been avoided.

----------


## tasteless

Saw this article on CBS sports: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...sketball-coach

This is what I don't get:




> According to documents from a court of appeals hearing in October 2011, Dorner was fired from the LAPD after he made a complaint against his field training officer, Sgt. Teresa Evans, saying in the course of arrest she kicked suspect Christopher Gettler, a schizophrenic with severe dementia.
> 
> Following an investigation, Dorner was fired for making false statements.
> 
> Richard Gettler, the schizophrenic man's father, gave testimony that supported Dorner's claim. After his son was returned on July 28, 2007, Richard Gettler asked "if he had been in a fight because his face was puffy" and his son responded that he was kicked twice in the chest by a police officer, he testified.


The victim testifies against the other cop, this guy testifies against the other cop, but he gets fired for making false claims? I read the article in the OP, and it says the evidence against this was "The suspect had marks on his face, but no boot marks, the document said." Is that really bulletproof evidence?

Not defending what this guy did, but I wonder if he really had a legitimate gripe against the LAPD...

----------


## erowe1

> He is a sicko. Attacking innocent people instead of the person he has the problem with. Sounds just like our crazy nation to be honest.


Well he had to do it to clear his good name.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> This is what I don't get:
> 
> The victim testifies against the other cop, this guy testifies against the other cop, but he gets fired for making false claims? I read the article in the OP, and it says the evidence against this was "The suspect had marks on his face, but no boot marks, the document said." Is that really bulletproof evidence?
> 
> Not defending what this guy did, but I wonder if he really had a legitimate gripe against the LAPD...


Read the manifesto. He brings up a few good points. (why he wasn't charged with filing false reports etc.) My opinion is that his grievances were true. (That is not to say you attack the innocent family of those who wronged you) The man obviously lost a lot that he had worked for. Goes to show that you should never underestimate the response you might get should you start $#@!ing with someone's reputation/livelihood. This all very easily could have been avoided and I do hope the officers take a lesson from this tragedy.

----------


## pacodever

Well,  they pissed off the wrong dude. How can his statements about the kicking be false if there is corrobating testimony from the victims and his father?

Can't say I've ever seen a "boot mark" distinguishable from other types of injury on someone's face.    What do they need,  a tread pattern?

----------


## erowe1

> Well,  they pissed off the wrong dude. How can his statements about the kicking be false if there is corrobating testimony from the victims and his father?
> 
> Can't say I've ever seen a "boot mark" distinguishable from other types of injury on someone's face.    What do they need,  a tread pattern?


Plus, if the cop kicked his chest, like he told his dad, and his head hit the pavement or a wall, a lack of boot marks on his face is exactly what you would expect.

----------


## Philhelm

It looks like he has killed one cop and wounded two others . . . and he's still on the loose.

http://gma.yahoo.com/ex-la-cop-sough...opstories.html




> Police in Southern California say they suspect that a fired cop is connected to the shootings -- one fatal -- of three police officers this morning, as well as the weekend slayings of an assistant women's college basketball coach and her fiancé in what cops believe are acts of revenge against the LAPD, as suggested in the suspect's online manifesto.
> 
> Former police officer Christopher Jordan Dorner, 33, who's a U.S. Navy reservist, has been publically named as a suspect in the killings of Monica Quan, 28, and her 27-year-old fiancé, Keith Lawrence, Irvine police Chief David L. Maggard said at a news conference Wednesday night.
> 
> "We are considering him armed and dangerous," Lt. Julia Engen of the Irvine Police Department said.
> 
> Police say Dorner shot at four officers in two incidents overnight, hitting three of them: one in Corona, Calif., and two in Riverside, Calif.
> 
> Sgt. Rudy Lopez of the LAPD said two LAPD officers were in Corona and headed out on special detail to check on one of the individuals named in Dorner's manifesto. Dorner allegedly grazed one of them but missed the other.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> It looks like he has killed one cop and wounded two others . . . and he's still on the loose.
> 
> http://gma.yahoo.com/ex-la-cop-sough...opstories.html


Looks like they _really_ $#@!ed with the wrong guy.

----------


## Lucille

Blue on blue
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/02/blue-on-blue.html



> It is educational to see that when a former policeman strikes out violently at the police, he does what the police all too often do, which is target their families.  This is a dangerous development I have been expecting ever since the militarization of the USA has increasingly led to family members and dogs being killed by police as a result of their dynamic entry tactics:
> [...]
> Based on what we know about the police departments, the way they treat whistleblowers, and the way they resolutely cover up the violent and criminal acts of the "one or two bad apples" that somehow never seem to be weeded out from any department, it would not surprise me to learn that many, if not most, of the allegations of LAPD misbehavior contained in Dorner's manifesto are true.
> 
> *I'm sure it will shock everyone to learn that the brave police who put their lives at risk every day are now inexplicably on edge and shooting at anything that moves.  One local resident emails to tell how the media is not reporting the entire story*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Philhelm

Please note that this rogue cop is not barricaded somewhere, waiting for the police to arrive with overwhelming force.  Rather, he is on the offensive, striking when they are vulnerable.  Now, let us imagine that the rogue cop is a gun owner refusing to disarm.

----------


## Henry Rogue

Ban police before it happens again.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Please note that this rogue cop is not barricaded somewhere, waiting for the police to arrive with overwhelming force.  Rather, he is on the offensive, striking when they are vulnerable.  Now, let us imagine that the rogue cop is a gun owner refusing to disarm.


LAPD is giving an update in around 30 minutes. Should be on most major news networks. I will paraphrase the best I can. In the meantime, does anyone know where he originally posted his manifesto? It is said that he posted it to an online website. I would not be surprised if it was a cop forum or something along those lines. Maybe we can find an unedited version? (The edited version was somewhat confusing as I think multiple officers had XXXX amount of letters in their last name. Hard to get the whole story when XXXX and XXXXX were seemingly interchanged for different officers.) I'm going to do a little looking and see if I can't find it.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Unredacted version here.

ETA: I can't find where it was originally posted.

----------


## Pericles

> Looks like they _really_ $#@!ed with the wrong guy.


When this happens on a larger scale, this forum refers to it as blowback.

----------


## juleswin

> When this happens on a larger scale, this forum refers to it as blowback.



+rep

Good observation, if you ask me, I think the LAPD is responsible for the death of those 2 innocent people. Take away a man's dream and goal the way these people did and pin him to the wall and he just might punch you in the balls. Not condoning what he did but I understand why he did it. I hope it ends well with no more deaths of the innocent and the wronged.

----------


## Pericles

> Please note that this rogue cop is not barricaded somewhere, waiting for the police to arrive with overwhelming force.  Rather, he is on the offensive, striking when they are vulnerable.  Now, let us imagine that the rogue cop is a gun owner refusing to disarm.


Or a "gun club" consisting of a number of veterans.

----------


## tasteless

Kinda reminds me of this movie

----------


## kcchiefs6465

This is just developing. My unredacted version of his manifesto is what the OP has posted. There is another longer version where he is calling for an AWB saying that if assault weapons were banned this would not have been able to happen, stating that Diane Feinstein needs to seize the opportunity to further the AWB. It seems someone may have added it. I'm not sure, trying to read through it.

It is here.

----------


## AuH20

This reads like a modern-day Punisher. I guess there is hope for humanity after all.

----------


## AuH20

> This is just developing. My unredacted version of his manifesto is what the OP has posted. There is another longer version where he is calling for an AWB saying that if assault weapons were banned this would not have been able to happen, stating that Diane Feinstein needs to seize the opportunity to further the AWB. It seems someone may have added it. I'm not sure, trying to read through it.
> 
> It is here.


Politically speaking, he sounds like a progressive who hasn't completely connected the dots.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Cops stationed outside of home of one the people named in the manifesto seen a blue pickup truck resembling his pulling up to the home. The cops opened fire on the truck striking one man in the hand, another was unwounded. The pickup truck was delivering newspapers. Another car was open fired on as well.

----------


## pacodever

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...nt-for-ex-cop/




> L.A. Police Shoot Two Innocent People During Manhunt for Ex-Cop
> Feb. 7, 2013 12:42pm Madeleine Morgenstern 16
> 11
> 0
> 0
> 12
> 
> Los Angeles-area police shot and wounded two innocent people early Thursday during a manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer suspected of shooting three cops and killing a couple.
> 
> ...


Cops feel targeted,  shoot at anything that moves.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Politically speaking, he sounds like a progressive who hasn't completely connected the dots.


I believe the same. He apparently stated that Colin Powell is the reason he joined the military as well as personally addresses Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer and a few others.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

.50's are going to be subject to a lot of talk.

ETA: Press conference just started.

----------


## coastie

> L.A. Police Shoot Two Innocent People During Manhunt for Ex-Cop
> Feb. 7, 2013 12:42pm Madeleine Morgenstern 16
> 11
> 0
> 0
> 12
> 
> Los Angeles-area police shot and wounded two innocent people early Thursday during a manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer suspected of shooting three cops and killing a couple.
> 
> ...


Guess the orders are shoot to kill, huh? I feel for anyone living there that happens to be driving a vehicle fitting his description....

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Guess the orders are shoot to kill, huh? I feel for anyone living there that happens to be driving a vehicle fitting his description....


I wouldn't drive any type of grey truck around that area.

----------


## Pericles

> .50's are going to be subject to a lot of talk.
> 
> ETA: Press conference just started.


Barrett refuses to sell .50s to CA police. If a citizen can't have one, they won't sell to the state that prohibits its citizens from owning their products. Now for some 4GW in practice for the benefit of the candid observer.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Here's his facebook. https://www.facebook.com/#!/chris.dorner.7

----------


## AuH20

So they have him cornered in a San Diego hotel room?????

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Barrett refuses to sell .50s to CA police. If a citizen can't have one, they won't sell to the state that prohibits its citizens from owning their products. Now for some 4GW in practice for the benefit of the candid observer.


While that may be true, and I'll take your word on it, he supposedly has one and has threatened to down helicopters and make APC's ineffective with it. He very well could have got one through a private sale as he stated he did. (Which will be attacked as well)

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> So they have him cornered in a San Diego hotel room?????


Not from what the press conference just said. They also said they are not going to clear his name.

----------


## oyarde

He could have use a little help with the manifesto . I wonder why he killed the kids ?Must be a whack job. Lost a crappy job in 08 and not over it yet? Probably take me a day & a twelve pack to get over losing that job , move onto something better.....

----------


## Pericles

> While that may be true, and I'll take your word on it, he supposedly has one and has threatened to down helicopters and make APC's ineffective with it. He very well could have got one through a private sale as he stated he did. (Which will be attacked as well)


The letter from Ronnie Barrett:

http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/view/news...390&zoneid=100

"Many of you have inquired as to the outcome of the letter I wrote to  Police Chief Bratten of the LAPD. Unfortunately, the chief's position  did not change. He continued to use his officers in the same deceptive  practices formerly utilized with the city council. These few officers  testifying in Sacramento ultimately contributed to the unconstitutional  AB50 law being passed. It saddened me to have to tell members of the  LAPD SWAT team that they would have to send someone for their rifle,  because I refused to assist anyone or any organization that is in  violation of the United States Constitution. In turn, the department  arranged to pick up their un-serviced rifle. 

Barrett cannot  legally sell any of its products to lawbreakers. Therefore, since  California's passing of AB50, the state is not in compliance with the US  Constitution's 2nd and 14th Amendments, and we will not sell nor  service any of our products to any government agency of the State of  California."

----------


## oyarde

A man that may fit his description @ the Hotel.

----------


## AuH20

This guy is an Obama cultist. What a bizarre story!

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> The letter from Ronnie Barrett:
> 
> http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/view/news...390&zoneid=100
> 
> "Many of you have inquired as to the outcome of the letter I wrote to  Police Chief Bratten of the LAPD. Unfortunately, the chief's position  did not change. He continued to use his officers in the same deceptive  practices formerly utilized with the city council. These few officers  testifying in Sacramento ultimately contributed to the unconstitutional  AB50 law being passed. It saddened me to have to tell members of the  LAPD SWAT team that they would have to send someone for their rifle,  because I refused to assist anyone or any organization that is in  violation of the United States Constitution. In turn, the department  arranged to pick up their un-serviced rifle. 
> 
> Barrett cannot  legally sell any of its products to lawbreakers. Therefore, since  California's passing of AB50, the state is not in compliance with the US  Constitution's 2nd and 14th Amendments, and we will not sell nor  service any of our products to any government agency of the State of  California."


Epic. I never heard of this but have always liked Barrett. They just seemed to be the epitome of a family runned business. Must spread some rep around.

----------


## TheTexan

I'm just now looking into this... Are we sure that he did in fact write that manifesto, and it was unedited?  

Should probably make sure of that before we start condemning him for the killing of innocents.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> Kinda reminds me of this movie


 Yes I remember that movie.
Regarding this thread I don't condone the actions of the former LEO. It makes for an interesting comparison to the man held up in his bunker with the child (hostage). Now I see from the news he is in the same predicament. He never should have sought refuge.

----------


## AuH20

Not at the hotel!! I'm sorry but I'm rooting for the psycho against a hopelessly corrupt PD. Sue me.

----------


## erowe1

> I'm just now looking into this... Are we sure that he did in fact write that manifesto, and it was unedited?  
> 
> Should probably make sure of that before we start condemning him for the killing of innocents.


It is strange how explicitly it fits itself into the gun control argument.

----------


## TheTexan

> Not at the hotel!! I'm sorry but I'm rooting for the psyhco against corrupt PD. Sue me.


Reported.

I just hope that he directs his anger towards those responsible, and not family members.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> This guy is an Obama cultist. What a bizarre story!


You gotta check this out if you didn't read it already... 


> It's kind of sad that I won't be around to view and enjoy The Hangover III. What an awesome trilogy. Todd Phillips, don't make anymore Hangovers after the third, takes away the originality of it's foundation. World War Z looks good and The Walking Dead season 3 (second half) looked intriguing. Damn I'm gonna miss shark week.


Bizarre indeed. Looks like a man who was pushed to the edge. Gotta check out the entire manifesto if you haven't. While I don't agree with his sentiments on the AWB etc, it is a very good read.

----------


## TheTexan

The cops in this video look really, really nervous.. 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/07/us/lap...html?hpt=hp_t1

----------


## erowe1

> Not at the hotel!! I'm sorry but I'm rooting for the psycho against a hopelessly corrupt PD. Sue me.


I'm really trying to discipline myself not to. But I admit it's tempting.

----------


## AuH20

> Reported.
> 
> I just hope that he directs his anger towards those responsible, and not family members.


Agreed. The family member approach is extreme, but I understand what he was trying to communicate to the everyday police officer who revels in the deaths of the nameless others they encounter.

----------


## AuH20

> The cops in this video look really, really nervous.. 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/07/us/lap...html?hpt=hp_t1


Because they aren't accustomed to being the prey. I think this whole incident can be viewed as a valuable lesson in personal humility and integrity.

----------


## Henry Rogue

They are like a swarm of angry bees. When their safety is in jeopardy or one of their's is attacked, they attack anything including innocent bystanders.

----------


## Pericles

> Because they aren't accustomed to being the prey. I think this whole incident can be viewed as a valuable lesson in personal humility and integrity.


4GW FTW - image a gun law that 100 or 1000 or 10,000, or X gun owners find to have crossed the line in the sand, and decide to fix the situation.

----------


## QuickZ06

This guy is not playing games it seems. Guess this rules out the whole military and cops should only have the guns argument, NAH!

----------


## AuH20

> They are like a swarm of angry bees. When their safety is in jeopardy or one of their's is attacked, they attack anything including innocent bystanders.


Dorner just needs to lay low for 3 weeks and let the police tear themselves apart.

----------


## thoughtomator

> How do you know when a police officer is lying??? When he begins his sentence with, “based on my experience and training”.


Wow.

----------


## QuickZ06

> Dorner just needs to lay low for 3 weeks and let the police tear themselves apart.


Well then they will just shoot everybody else, as they already took out the newspaper guys. The first cop that tires to pull this guy over, well you now the rest as we can see.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Dorner just needs to lay low for 3 weeks and let the police tear themselves apart.


I'd wager he knows plenty of people who would never in a million years turn him in to the cops. He's probably got a Rolodex of people who were unjustly abused.

----------


## Anti Federalist

So now if you're opposed to police brutality and cop "puppycide", you're a homicidal maniac.

Got it.

Jeez, guys, can't you update the script a little, I mean, c'mon, give the audience a _little_ credit...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> So now if you're opposed to police brutality and cop "puppycide", you're a homicidal maniac.
> 
> Got it.
> 
> Jeez, guys, can't you update the script a little, I mean, c'mon, give the audience a _little_ credit...


What are you referring to? The MSM?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> What are you referring to? The MSM?


The whole stinking operation...the generators, the producers and the mouthpieces.

----------


## sailingaway

There is no possible way I am going to root for someone killing someone's innocent children and their fiance.

This is disgusting all around.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

LAPD Hot Shots: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/a...wp&feedId=3711

They are scared crapless!!

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> The whole stinking operation...the generators, the producers and the mouthpieces.


Ahh. Obvious post was obvious. I swear sometimes I read right _through_ the words. The manifesto does lead credence to your belief. Especially when he outlines the need for an AWB and questions private sales. Bizarre as hell. If you haven't read the entire manifesto.. I'll find my post number and edit in a minute I'd recommend you do. He states Clinton was his favorite president and George H.W. Bush was his second favorite. He addresses all sorts of random $#@!. I am under the impression that he is just the typical misguided DoD supporting officer that was pushed too far. The manifesto is peculiar in some parts. (Words misspelled that were not previously misspelled, grammar gets shotty etc.) I would not be surprised one bit if certain parts were added. Specifically the part addressing Diane Feinstein.

Here's the full manifesto.... it is a lot longer than the second post is.

----------


## Danke

> Dorner just needs to lay low for 3 weeks and let the police tear themselves apart.


Any black guy driving a grey Nissan Titan in California needs to lay low.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Any black guy driving a grey Nissan Titan in California needs to lay low.


I believe two asian women driving a grey pickup were open fired on as well. I would not take any chances whatsoever. They are shooting first and asking questions later.

ETA: I had edited out blue and added grey but it appears they were driving a blue pickup truck. Hell, wasn't even the same color as the suspect's.

----------


## coastie

> There is no possible way I am going to root for someone killing someone's innocent children and their fiance.
> 
> This is disgusting all around.



Agreed...

I was one of them at one point(Law Enforcement, not LAPD), and I believe everything happened EXACTLY as he described it, I've seen it with my own eyes many times.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Chase said that in both instances police came across vehicles they thought were similar to the one Dorner is believed to be driving. Neither vehicle was Dorner's.
> 
> "Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time."
> 
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...omen-shot.html


LAPD: Shoot First, Ask Questions Later. New Policy in wake of Officer shootings. These Officers BETTER be charged. If (or when) a Black male gets killed from this LA will explode into massive riots

----------


## AuH20

The LAPD is under significant budgetary duress. If this carries on for 4 to 5 weeks, they won't be able to operate at such level.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Any black guy driving a grey Nissan Titan in California needs to lay low.


Or any four wheel vehicle in a low-light environment.

----------


## coastie

> The LAPD is under significant budgetary duress. If this carries on for 4 to 5 weeks, they won't be able to operate at such level.



I'm sure the .gov won't mind printing them off some money for it...

----------


## Danke

> I believe two asian women driving a grey pickup were open fired on as well. I would not take any chances whatsoever. They are shooting first and asking questions later.


They really opened up on them.

----------


## sailingaway

> They really opened up on them.


Wow.

----------


## phill4paul

> They really opened up on them.


  Is this the Asian women's pick-up? Wow I count a least 22 bullet holes. A lot of brass by the cops doors as well as a few shot-shells.

----------


## Danke

> Is this the Asian women's pick-up? Wow I count a least 22 bullet holes. A lot of brass by the cops doors as well as a few shot-shells.


Yes, they were delivering newspapers.

----------


## pacodever

Just a note that earning a marksman,  sharp shooter,  or expert pistol or rifle qualification in the Navy does NOT make you a marksman, sharp shooter,  or expert,  let alone tactically proficient. The qualification level is ridiculously low.  I have expert medals in rifle and pistol and would regard my marksmanship  as mediocre.  The MSM loves to jump on and  exaggerate military decorations. 

Dorner was only "expert"  in pistol and marksman,  the lowest qualification,  in rifle.  And once you earn the medal,  you get to keep it regardless of re-qualifications,   so not a good mmeasure of his training or proficiency. 

I am also wary of his own accounts of his knowledge of tactics and asymmetric warfare as well as his Intel experience.

----------


## QuickZ06

Well hope those ladies are ok, good thing they are usually horrible shots, probably shot that house behind there two.

----------


## Anti Federalist

You bet your ass I'm taking notes.

The circular firing squad circle jerk.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Yes, they were delivering newspapers.


Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?

That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?

They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???

----------


## Anti Federalist

Jesus $#@!ing christ...war on *us*.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Ahh. Obvious post was obvious. I swear sometimes I read right _through_ the words. The manifesto does lead credence to your belief. Especially when he outlines the need for an AWB and questions private sales. Bizarre as hell. If you haven't read the entire manifesto.. I'll find my post number and edit in a minute I'd recommend you do. He states Clinton was his favorite president and George H.W. Bush was his second favorite. He addresses all sorts of random $#@!. I am under the impression that he is just the typical misguided DoD supporting officer that was pushed too far. The manifesto is peculiar in some parts. (Words misspelled that were not previously misspelled, grammar gets shotty etc.) I would not be surprised one bit if certain parts were added. Specifically the part addressing Diane Feinstein.
> 
> Here's the full manifesto.... it is a lot longer than the second post is.


No worries, I'm reviewing that manifesto now...Holy Wall O' Text Batman.

----------


## phill4paul

> Yes, they were delivering newspapers.


   Christ! Bad day to be in a pick-up. WTF? No attempt to identify the inhabitants just opened fire. I wonder how they will spin this one.

----------


## Danke

> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???


Have you ever been hit by a newspaper!?!

Apparently they were carrying a lot of them.

----------


## AuH20

> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???


Most police in the metro PDs are horrible shots and rely on quantity.

----------


## sailingaway

> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???


It doesn't even seem to be the right color of a truck.

edit, well, I guess it is potentially the right color truck, but not right color or gender of person inside....




> Police said they are searching for Dorner, whose last known address is in La Palma, and said he drives a blue 2005 Nissan Titan pickup truck with California license plate number 7X03191. He is described as a 6-foot-tall African American who weighs about 270 pounds, and has black hair and brown eyes.


from one of the links in the OP

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Have you ever been hit by a newspaper!?!
> 
> Apparently they were carrying a lot of them.



They had more then 15 in the clip

----------


## dannno

> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???


Ya the perp has a gray truck... Dunno what they were thinking.

----------


## phill4paul

> No worries, I'm reviewing that manifesto now...Holy Wall O' Text Batman.


  No doubt. Wow. Interesting that friends and associates of cops get there own special license plate frames.





> KMA-367 was the official Federal Communications Commission (FCC) call sign for Los Angeles
> Police Department radio transmitters from 1948 through the 1980s. Those driving around
> with these license plate holders are associated with the LAPD. Seen less frequently are license holders
> displaying KMA-628, associated with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???


Angry bees attack anything and everything.

----------


## Danke

LAPD probably would love to use drones.

----------


## moostraks

Hmmm...


> "They embrace death as it is a way of life. I simply don't fear it. I am the walking exigent circumstance you created"


 Interesting similarity of unrelated situations.

----------


## sailingaway

Off twitter:




> Former LAPD officer on rampage, still at large; media deletes half of his manifesto, which reveals him to be a racist, gun control fanatic, and Obama fanboy.
> 
> http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/02/for...28Bob+Owens%29

----------


## QuickZ06

> Ya the perp has a gray truck... Dunno what they were thinking.






> Police said they are searching for Dorner, whose last known address is in La Palma, and said he drives a *blue* 2005 Nissan Titan pickup truck with California license plate number 7X03191. He is described as a 6-foot-tall African American who weighs about 270 pounds, and has black hair and brown eyes.


Maybe he is changing it colors like that movie The Jackal because now this says it is blue from what sailingaway posted.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Christ! Bad day to be in a pick-up. WTF? No attempt to identify the inhabitants just opened fire. I wonder how they will spin this one.


You mean how they _spun_ that one? It was unfortunate. A neighbor called and reported seeing his pickup truck in the area.  Not a $#@! is given elsewise. You remember the Empire State fiasco?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???


They opened fire on another truck that was not his as well. There should seriously be a news alert to people owning similar trucks to not drive 'em. I wouldn't drive _any_ pickup in California today.

----------


## moostraks

> Off twitter:


Yeppers... coming to the part about the gun ban need in the "manifesto"



> If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen.Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting?Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need an AR15 rifle?This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam War."

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> It doesn't even seem to be the right color of a truck.
> 
> edit, well, I guess it is potentially the right color truck, but not right color or gender of person inside....
> 
> from one of the links in the OP


They've been saying grey on all of the press conferences they've been holding. Either way, when you have that many shots ripping through your car you are lucky to be alive. A simple, 'It was unfortunate,' doesn't really cut it.

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

Doesn't sound like they want to capture him alive.

----------


## Pericles

Some money quotes from this article: http://news.yahoo.com/massive-manhun...175229179.html

"More than 40 protection details were assigned to possible targets of Dorner."

If you were at risk, maybe a cop car would drive by every few hours.

"Beck detailed Dorner's alleged crimes in an unusual press conference in  an underground room at police headquarters, where extra security was  deployed."

When the Mandarins get scared, a lot of resources get put into force protection, to the exclusion of chasing the target.

"As police searched for him, the packed Los Angeles area was on edge. The  nearly 10,000-member LAPD dispatched many of its officers to protect  potential targets. The department also pulled officers from motorcycle  duty, fearing they would make for easy targets."

More defensive effort that limits pro-active action.

----------


## Danke

> Doesn't sound like they want to capture him alive.


"Its just a matter of time until they have him cornered and he shoots himself in the head...5 or ten times...with multiple calibers...from behind....."

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Off twitter:


I don't believe him to be racist. His manifesto pointed out skin color to show there was a prejudice towards him. (Saying a white man sang Nazi songs, used the word '******' etc.)

He seemingly is very pro gun-control, as many LEO are. And I was pretty surprised that he said he would have voted for Huntsman and that George H.W. Bush was his second favorite president. (Next to Clinton) He had a DoD sticker on his car and was very much a statist in that regard. Seemed to idolize Colin Powell. There's a very bizarre picture of the man.

----------


## TheTexan

When AF is surprised by cops you know it must be bad




> Wait wait wait...Am I $#@!ing reading this right?
> 
> That blue pickup was NOT this guy's truck?
> 
> They just lit it up because they *thought* it was???

----------


## moostraks

And it goes on to say,


> These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to "add to cart".All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchases at gun stores and private party purchases...Whether by executive order or bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!


There is something really bizarre about the way the thing started to the weapons ban rant. And yes I agree, wall o text....

----------


## thoughtomator

You want to know what would turn this into a nightmare scenario for the police? If additional people started taking the opportunity to exact revenge, so that there were multiple attacks at multiple locations at the same time. They'd never know which, if any, was the guy they are looking for. And Lord knows there are no lack of people with very particular axes to grind against the LAPD.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> And it goes on to say, 
> 
> There is something really bizarre about the way the thing started to the weapons ban rant. And yes I agree, wall o text....


What are your thoughts on the grammar/misspellings? The gun control parts somewhat struck me as odd/peculiar. (Though to be honest, half the damn thing struck me as odd)

----------


## moostraks

> I don't believe him to be racist. His manifesto pointed out skin color to show there was a prejudice towards him. (Saying a white man sang Nazi songs, used the word '******' etc.)
> 
> He seemingly is very pro gun-control, as many LEO are. And I was pretty surprised that he said he would have voted for Huntsman and that George H.W. Bush was his second favorite president. (Next to Clinton) He had a DoD sticker on his car and was very much a statist in that regard. Seemed to idolize Colin Powell. There's a very bizarre picture of the man.


I would say he is racist in that there doesn't seem to be any interaction he has been offended by that is motivated by some reason other than a stereotype most of which involve race. He catalogues each group and excepting the lesbians each group is oppressing someone on the basis of race. He is obsessed with race. The writing is definately narcissistic.

----------


## moostraks

> What are your thoughts on the grammar/misspellings? The gun control parts somewhat struck me as odd/peculiar. (Though to be honest, half the damn thing struck me as odd)


The writing has a high level of vocabulary imo, but looks like spelling wasn't his deal. My father was the same way. The spelling seems to be worse in the sections that come across with more of a stream of thought. I have seen so much bad spelling with my young homeschoolers that they have made my writing poor.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You want to know what would turn this into a nightmare scenario for the police? If additional people started taking the opportunity to exact revenge, so that there were multiple attacks at multiple locations at the same time. They'd never know which, if any, was the guy they are looking for. And Lord knows there are no lack of people with very particular axes to grind against the LAPD.


Lines are forming...

There will be plenty more axes out there if these out of control bug$#@! crazy cops keep going around and lighting up anybody who even comes close to looking like this guy or his truck.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> When AF is surprised by cops you know it must be bad


\o-O/

----------


## Anti Federalist

Silence, Mundane!

Or do you want some of this too?




> Some money quotes from this article: http://news.yahoo.com/massive-manhun...175229179.html
> 
> "More than 40 protection details were assigned to possible targets of Dorner."
> 
> If you were at risk, maybe a cop car would drive by every few hours.
> 
> "Beck detailed Dorner's alleged crimes in an unusual press conference in  an underground room at police headquarters, where extra security was  deployed."
> 
> When the Mandarins get scared, a lot of resources get put into force protection, to the exclusion of chasing the target.
> ...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> The writing has a high level of vocabulary imo, but looks like spelling wasn't his deal. My father was the same way. *The spelling seems to be worse in the sections that come across with more of a stream of thought.* I have seen so much bad spelling with my young homeschoolers that they have made my writing poor.


Maybe so. I don't know, just strikes me as odd that a person who obviously shoots/has been in the military would be in favor of a AWB and even why he would question why someone would need a suppressor. I wouldn't be surprised if they took it upon themselves to add in a few gun control sections. Though I suppose it wouldn't make sense for them to do that while he was alive and could conceivably respond to it.

----------


## moostraks

He is still holding a grudge over a watch from 1996? This fellow has either the mind of an elephant or a very dull life.

----------


## coastie

I beginning to think this guy may have been just rattling off random qualifications as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, else I'd figure the body count would be a lot higher by now...My marksmanship ribbons(same as Navy's) say that I'm a sniper and combat pistol expert, too.

Well, I am actually pretty good at pistol, but you're more than likely safe If I'm looking at you through a scope from over 300 yds away,lol.

I wonder how many more innocents will be hurt or killed by the LAPD before this is over?

----------


## Danke

UPDATE: Authorities have confirmed a truck found burning in the San Bernardino Mountains belongs to Christopher Dorner. 

A local law enforcement source said the truck, found near Big Bear Lake, is the one police across California have been searching for. 

Authorities believe Dorner is somewhere in the mountains nearby. 

A local website in Big Bear reported a strike team was in place and a command post was being set up.

----------


## coastie

> UPDATE: Authorities have confirmed a truck found burning in the San Bernardino Mountains belongs to Christopher Dorner. 
> 
> A local law enforcement source said the truck, found near Big Bear Lake, is the one police across California have been searching for. 
> 
> Authorities believe Dorner is somewhere in the mountains nearby. 
> 
> A local website in Big Bear reported a strike team was in place and a command post was being set up.


Now, if that wasn't a stupid move... "Hey everyone, I'm right around here next to this randomly burning truck on the side of the mountain, that also happens to be my randomly burning truck"

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> The principal swatted Jim for using a derogatory word toward me. He then for some unknown reason swatted me for striking Jim in response to him calling me a ******.


Seems that he never quite appreciated the non-aggression principal (or whatever variation of "sticks n' stones" is commonly taught to children). He used violence against words fairly regularly, words that progressives and others have programmed all Americans to react to. He is political correctness embodied in rage.

----------


## libertyjam

> UPDATE: Authorities have confirmed a truck found burning in the San Bernardino Mountains belongs to Christopher Dorner. 
> 
> A local law enforcement source said the truck, found near Big Bear Lake, is the one police across California have been searching for. 
> 
> Authorities believe Dorner is somewhere in the mountains nearby. 
> 
> A local website in Big Bear reported a strike team was in place and a command post was being set up.


SCENARIO straight out of the end of "The Monkey Wrench Gang", for any old Edward Abbey fans out there.  Unreal.

----------


## belian78

> UPDATE: Authorities have confirmed a truck found burning in the San Bernardino Mountains belongs to Christopher Dorner. 
> 
> A local law enforcement source said the truck, found near Big Bear Lake, is the one police across California have been searching for. 
> 
> Authorities believe Dorner is somewhere in the mountains nearby. 
> 
> A local website in Big Bear reported a strike team was in place and a command post was being set up.


Damn, Tito Ortiz and his camp better keep their heads down!!!  I can see it now, 6 or so fighters out on a run get gunned down by twitchy cops.

----------


## erowe1

Why isn't Drudge covering this?

----------


## moostraks

> Seems that he never quite appreciated the non-aggression principal (or whatever variation of "sticks n' stones" is commonly taught to children). He used violence against words fairly regularly, words that progressives and others have programmed all Americans to react to. *He is political correctness embodied in rage*.


Ain't that the truth. The whole rambling, egocentric "manifesto" is like a gov't propaganda piece. He even gets in a global warming reference. Ack!!!

----------


## TonySutton

> Now, if that wasn't a stupid move... "Hey everyone, I'm right around here next to this randomly burning truck on the side of the mountain, that also happens to be my randomly burning truck"


he might be smart as a fox if he had a second vehicle staged in the mountains or a friend to drive him out.  They would be up there searching for days while he goes underground.

----------


## thoughtomator

He probably isn't within a hundred miles of the truck. I bet he rigged some timed or triggered incendiary device on it as a distraction. If he is what he says he is, he's taking this opportunity to set up another attack far far away from that location.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> UPDATE: Authorities have confirmed a truck found burning in the San Bernardino Mountains belongs to Christopher Dorner. 
> 
> A local law enforcement source said the truck, found near Big Bear Lake, is the one police across California have been searching for. 
> 
> Authorities believe Dorner is somewhere in the mountains nearby. 
> 
> A local website in Big Bear reported a strike team was in place and a command post was being set up.


"Command post, this is Drone Strike Alpha. We are inbound 500 AGL - 300 kts. Time on target is 60 seconds. Get your people down, this one's gonna be big".

----------


## Anti Federalist

You have this gun control promoting, Obama fanboi, ex cop, running around sparking war with the fascists of the LAPD.

The fellow that was prompted by SPLC to shoot somebody the other day.

The long standing rage simmering on "our" side.

The pot is boiling over.

If we do not separate, we will be at each other's throats within a year and *nobody* will live through this.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

> SO... a cop can lose his job for saying his partner kicked someone, but if he kills/abuses an innocent person for no good reason he gets a paid vacation?
> 
> Not backing up this guy's actions, just pointing out the hypocrisy.


thats what i was thinking too.

----------


## phill4paul

> SCENARIO straight out of the end of "The Monkey Wrench Gang", for any old Edward Abbey fans out there.  Unreal.


  Been years since I read that book! +rep

----------


## thoughtomator

I should be getting work done today but this whole thing is fascinating. Citizens in LA now have to huddle down and take cover in fear - not in fear of the suspect, but in fear of the cops who have gone on a shooting rampage (up to at least 5 innocents shot now). People on Twitter starting to change their profile images to Donner's picture in solidarity... #LAPD hashtag is a litany of complaints against the police, almost nobody on their side.

I have a feeling if people in LA saw Dorner they would not turn him in or report him.

----------


## Spikender

Wow, all this is news to me, although I guess I haven't been keeping with recent events... recently.

Regardless, I don't know what to think at this point. Dorner is a pro-Obama, pro-gun control man who's got the LAPD running scared, and now they're hunting him in the mountains. At this point, all I can say is that I am honestly surprised that one man can scare an entire department this badly.

As other posters have pointed out, if this one man can do all this to a ten thousand officer strong police force, what could more people do?

I'll be watching this as it develops.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I should be getting work done today but this whole thing is fascinating. Citizens in LA now have to huddle down and take cover in fear - not in fear of the suspect, but in fear of the cops who have gone on a shooting rampage (up to at least 5 innocents shot now). People on Twitter starting to change their profile images to Donner's picture in solidarity... #LAPD hashtag is a litany of complaints against the police, almost nobody on their side.
> 
> I have a feeling if people in LA saw Dorner they would not turn him in or report him.



Definite turning point.  i expect calls for criminal charges against the cops responsible, and resignations. This is by far a more important part of this story then him shooting anyone.

----------


## moostraks

> I should be getting work done today but this whole thing is fascinating. Citizens in LA now have to huddle down and take cover in fear - not in fear of the suspect, but in fear of the cops who have gone on a shooting rampage (up to at least 5 innocents shot now). People on Twitter starting to change their profile images to Donner's picture in solidarity... #LAPD hashtag is a litany of complaints against the police, almost nobody on their side.
> 
> I have a feeling if people in LA saw Dorner they would not turn him in or report him.


Well that is more than a bit disturbing. The guy seems to be a walking contradiction. It isn't heroic to target people's families to punish those he believes to be corrupt. The guy is poison.

----------


## phill4paul

What's the best breaking news site on this? LAPD are up to 5 innocents shot now?

----------


## dannno

> Now, if that wasn't a stupid move... "Hey everyone, I'm right around here next to this randomly burning truck on the side of the mountain, that also happens to be my randomly burning truck"


Could be, or somebody picked him up and he left the truck burning in hopes that it would be destroyed by the time they found it.

Big Bear is up in the mountains above LA, they actually have a few ski resorts up there.

----------


## coastie

> Definite turning point.  i expect calls for criminal charges against the cops responsible, and resignations. This is by far a more important part of this story then him shooting anyone.


...and yet...silence in the media. They could kill 20 people today and tomorrow, the media will dutifully spin it for the police, and everyone in the country will forget about it by next week, and when they do recall the incident, it will be "Well, the cops were just doing their job...".

----------


## kcchiefs6465

BREAKING NEWS
He sent Anderson Cooper a video with a note saying 'I never lied' along with a LAPD coin with bullet holes shot through it.

Told Anderson Cooper to be nicer to guests LMAO. You really could not make this $#@! up.

----------


## phill4paul

Ex-LAPD officer who's wanted for murder, Christopher Dorner, sent a package to Anderson Cooper days ago - @AC360

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/ahZ...ered-extremely

----------


## thoughtomator

> Well that is more than a bit disturbing. The guy seems to be a walking contradiction. It isn't heroic to target people's families to punish those he believes to be corrupt. The guy is poison.


On the other hand, he's doing something about longstanding, epic, epidemic corruption in the LAPD where all legitimate avenues to redress grievances have failed. That's why he's getting popular support. There is an overwhelming rage in LA, especially among its minority populations, at the LAPD.

The fact that the LAPD responded to this incident by victimizing totally unrelated, innocent people who could not in a million years have been mistaken for the huge bald black man they are looking for seems to confirm that the LAPD is indeed way, way out of control. This situation has a "resistance to an occupying army" type of feel developing about it.

----------


## pacodever

So ex-cop/Navy reservist advocates for stricter gun control to prevent another mass shooting in a manifesto posted just before going on shooting spree of his own ambushing unarmed civilians and armed police officers alike with legally obtained and registered weapons that in his opinion should be tougher to obtain?    This guy's brain has been scrambled by the MSM.




> If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don't give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That's bull$#@! because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn't even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to "add to cart". All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL's. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR's, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I'm not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. *In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a $#@!ing silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
> *
> Mia Farrow said it best. "Gun control is no longer debatable, it's not a conversation, its a moral mandate."
> 
> Sen. Feinstein, you are doing the right thing in leading the re-institution of a national AWB. Never again should any public official state that their prayers and thoughts are with the family. That has become cliche' and meaningless. Its time for action. Let this be your legacy that you bestow to America. Do not be swayed by obstacles, antagaonist, and naysayers. Remember the innocent children at Austin, *Kent*, Stockton, Fullerton, San Diego, Iowa City, Jonesboro, Columbine, Nickel Mines, Blacksburg, Springfield, Red Lake, Chardon, Aurora, and Newtown. Make sure this never happens again!!!
> 
> In my cache you will find several small arms. In the cache, Bushmaster firearms, Remington precision rifles, and AAC Suppressors (silencers). *All of these small arms are manufactured by Cerberus/Freedom Group. The same company responsible for the Portland mall shooting, Webster , NY, and Sandy Hook massacre.*


Kent???

----------


## dannno

You can drive from a sunny warm 72 degree day at the beach in Santa Monica (L.A.), 1 hour east to the foothills, then 1 more hour up into the mountains and go skiing up at Big Bear (where he left his truck):

----------


## UWDude

> Maybe so. I don't know, just strikes me as odd that a person who obviously shoots/has been in the military would be in favor of a AWB and even why he would question why someone would need a suppressor. I wouldn't be surprised if they took it upon themselves to add in a few gun control sections. Though I suppose it wouldn't make sense for them to do that while he was alive and could conceivably respond to it.


I don't believe the media censored his manifesto, I think someone is adding to his manifesto to smear him.  He has a .50 cal.  I don't think he is in favor of gun control.

----------


## Spikender

> BREAKING NEWS
> He sent Anderson Cooper a video with a note saying 'I never lied' along with a LAPD coin with bullet holes shot through it.
> 
> Told Anderson Cooper to be nicer to guests LMAO. You really could not make this $#@! up.


Wow, that's just crazy.

----------


## Expatriate

> Kent???


Kent State? That was the National Guard. A gun ban would not disarm them so I don't know what point he's trying to make.

----------


## moostraks

> On the other hand, he's doing something about longstanding, epic, epidemic corruption in the LAPD where all legitimate avenues to redress grievances have failed. That's why he's getting popular support. There is an overwhelming rage in LA, especially among its minority populations, at the LAPD.
> 
> The fact that the LAPD responded to this incident by victimizing totally unrelated, innocent people who could not in a million years have been mistaken for the huge bald black man they are looking for seems to confirm that the LAPD is indeed way, way out of control. This situation has a "resistance to an occupying army" type of feel developing about it.


Yeah. Quite the hero. His plan is to shoot their children so the corrupt can continue to victimize people but this time they will have an ax to grind against someone who is a minority because of who took their children. This is not some heroic stand against the system. This is a coward with a bizarre sense of what is right and wrong and believes highly in more government control which he is going to usher in through his use of the "system" and legally purchased guns. This is a twisted individual and needs to be shown for the coward he is. Sad sack of crap who has apparently been using violence for some time and thought he was going have a proud career doing it. Instead, he found out life ain't always fair and the gov't is corrupt and yet it is apparently only the portion that screwed his life up that is corrupt.The rest of it is just jolly fine, and needs to squeeze us underlings all the more because of his valiant anti-gun campaign he is waging.

----------


## Spikender

> Yeah. Quite the hero. His plan is to shoot their children so the corrupt can continue to victimize people but this time they will have an ax to grind against someone who is a minority because of who took their children. This is not some heroic stand against the system. This is a coward with a bizarre sense of what is right and wrong and believes highly in more government control which he is going to usher in through his use of the "system" and legally purchased guns. This is a twisted individual and needs to be shown for the coward he is. Sad sack of crap who has apparently been using violence for some time and thought he was going have a proud career doing it. Instead, he found out life ain't always fair and the gov't is corrupt and yet it is apparently only the portion that screwed his life up that is corrupt.The rest of it is just jolly fine, and needs to squeeze us underlings all the more because of his valiant anti-gun campaign he is waging.


True, it seems to me that part of his end game is to smear gun owners since he's doing it with legally purchased firearms even though he wants more gun control. I also find it odd that the first thing he did was attack family members when the cops themselves should, at least in my mind, be his real targets. Something doesn't add up about all this. It might be that he's crazy, but at the same time I think it's because he just didn't plan this through and has a sick mind and a lot of anger to boot.

Then again, a sick mind and a lot of anger seem to be qualities that a lot of law enforcement agents share, former or not, so perhaps I'm just stating the obvious.

----------


## thoughtomator

Didn't say I agree with what he chose to do - I don't - I'm just pointing out why he is getting sympathy and support, that his grievances are widely shared. 

The fact is that at this moment, civilians in LA are in danger of being shot by LAPD, while they are in no danger of being shot by Dorner (unless they are connected to his personal grievance). Dorner is a private enemy of the LAPD, but the LAPD has made itself into a public enemy by shooting up innocents with reckless abandon.

----------


## moostraks

> I don't believe the media censored his manifesto, I think someone is adding to his manifesto to smear him.  He has a .50 cal.  I don't think he is in favor of gun control.


If so, they did a fine job with it and doubt we'll ever know. The rambling rant has it sprinkled throughout the last 2/3 of his manifesto including spewing about the nra guy while praising Piers Morgan whom he is 100% in agreement with on gun control and wants him to have an "indefinate resident alien and visa card".

----------


## dannno

What if they don't find him? How far will the police state go to track this guy down? I'm only 2 hours from LA but I'm considering gtfo.. unfortunately I have plans to be in LA in two days, which sucks, I only go to LA maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

----------


## shane77m

> What if they don't find him? How far will the police state go to track this guy down? I'm only 2 hours from LA but I'm considering gtfo.. unfortunately I have plans to be in LA in two days, which sucks, I only go to LA maybe 2 or 3 times a year.


Be careful about what type of car you drive.

----------


## Spikender

> Didn't say I agree with what he chose to do - I don't - I'm just pointing out why he is getting sympathy and support, that his grievances are widely shared. 
> 
> The fact is that at this moment, civilians in LA are in danger of being shot by LAPD, while they are in no danger of being shot by Dorner (unless they are connected to his personal grievance). Dorner is a private enemy of the LAPD, but the LAPD has made itself into a public enemy by shooting up innocents with reckless abandon.


True, but I find it easy to not have sympathy for both sides of this conflict, save for the civilians that will be caught in the middle; my heart definitely goes out to them, especially since the LAPD seems to think that spraying in the general direction of anything that even reminds them of Dorner is a good idea and should be supported. Like I said, though, Dorner I can't sympathize with because of his motives and the fact that he killed two innocents, and the LAPD... well, my lack of sympathy for them would require a lot more words than I feel like typing right now.

----------


## AuH20

The commemorative coin he sent to Anderson Cooper.

----------


## moostraks

> Didn't say I agree with what he chose to do - I don't - I'm just pointing out why he is getting sympathy and support, that his grievances are widely shared. 
> 
> The fact is that at this moment, civilians in LA are in danger of being shot by LAPD, while they are in no danger of being shot by Dorner (unless they are connected to his personal grievance). Dorner is a private enemy of the LAPD, but the LAPD has made itself into a public enemy by shooting up innocents with reckless abandon.


And the dept. will have theirs because of it. However, the people are being played here. This is the type of situation that the gov't loves to use to flex their muscles. He knows this as well and has layed the framework so it will be used to further his pet projects. The supporters are fools. There are ways to attack the system but this will just grow it.

----------


## dannno

> Be careful about what type of car you drive.


Well he already burned his truck, so I guess he could be driving anything.. But my guess is that he's gone north towards Bakersfield or something, he may be near the Oregon border by nightfall. Unless his goal is to wreak more havoc in LA.

----------


## TheTexan

> and the fact that he *allegedly* killed two innocents


FTFY.  Innocent until proven guilty and all that.  I just got back from work... can anyone tell me where this manifesto came from?  Where was it first published and by whom?

----------


## Spikender

> And the dept. will have theirs because of it. However, the people are being played here. This is the type of situation that the gov't loves to use to flex their muscles. He knows this as well and has layed the framework so it will be used to further his pet projects. The supporters are fools. There are ways to attack the system but this will just grow it.


Exactly. This whole ordeal will be used to call for additional police protection a la gun control and additional periphery laws. And I'm betting Dorner knows this, which is why he's doing what he's doing. He knows now that he's pretty much screwed, especially since the LAPD is shooting on sight as far as anyone can tell, and he's going to do all he can to keep this going and help push his own dreams for gun ownership down everyone's throats. I don't doubt that he hates the corruption at the LAPD, but I'm sure he's just as eager to get his gun dreams pushed as he is for the LAPD to feel the sting.

----------


## Spikender

> FTFY.  Innocent until proven guilty and all that.  I just got back from work... can anyone tell me where this manifesto came from?  Where was it first published and by whom?


True. On that note, there is a lot about all this that we still don't know about. I don't even know what to make of that manifesto of his, especially with all the reports of the media getting rid of parts and redacting names and all that jazz.

----------


## UWDude

> Well he already burned his truck, so I guess he could be driving anything.. But my guess is that he's gone north towards Bakersfield or something, he may be near the Oregon border by nightfall. Unless his goal is to wreak more havoc in LA.


If he is who he says he is, he is still in LA.   I mean I would dump my truck off at the mountains with a timer and firebomb, so they would think I went into hiding into the mountains.  But I don't think the mountains are his specialty.  LAPD means he is an urban survivor.

----------


## AGRP

Well, this sucks.  Didnt a similar thing happen to a certain someone at a firing range a few days ago? You live by the sword, you die by the sword?

----------


## TheTexan

He was fired in 2008.  Why now?

edit: Looks like the appeal process ended (unfavorably obviously) in October 2011.  Makes more sense

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Man this story is nuts all around. I just finished his "full manifesto". He seems to be a real product of pop culture, which glorifies revenge movies where the "good guy" takes on corruption in a violent way. Also some seriously racially charged cultures, and heavily statist mainstream political cultures. He seems to see violence as a force for good against "bad" people, who oppress others through their words and actions. He's a vigilante for justice in his own mind.

A point that was brought up to me was that he may have known the family members he killed and may have justified it with more reasons than simply trying to inflicting emotional pain on the father and a brutal way of showing hypocritical attitudes. It does seem a bit odd that he would target people that he may have even considered innocent or periphery to the situation, considering how he at least *attempts* to attribute some moral code to his violent actions. While I could see him targeting police officers families as a way to "show them" how they treat innocent people, and the families of those who have been on the receiving end of the LAPD's corrupt exertions of power... it does seem a bit odd considering the way he sees himself. It could be some cognitive dissonance, or he may chalk it up to "collateral damage" in his mind, or it could simply be the result of collectivist grouping. But I also wonder if there was something else behind it, if so he clearly hasn't explained it. 

At the same time he seems pretty confused with his position on gun control compared to his actions. What an utterly bizarre story. This guy is a real mess of confusion. He's the product of a culture of violence. Pop culture, state regulations, the military, glorification of political "leaders"... though he seems desperate to use his aggression to "help" change things in a positive way. It's terribly sad. He should have been taught that violence isn't the solution, but growing up in the world we do it's not hard to see how he learned the opposite.


The really bizzare part is how he's compartmentalized it to the LAPD. He still supports the USG, and it's heavy handedness. He's just seen, and been a direct victim of the corruption in the LAPD. He even singles them out as substantially different from other police organizations.

The LAPD's reaction is pretty crazy too. What a crazy thing to watch. Though a lot of people who are amazed at how they are tripping over one man on a death mission, you also have to realize that he has inside knowledge about the organization. This is far more than some guy who the LAPD $#@!ed over and is on a personal vendetta. There's a very unique backstory to this, which has different dynamics than if it were some random pissed off "cop hater" or "domestic terrorist".

What a wild story. I hope the complex nature of it keeps bubbling up to the surface despite the spinned narrative the LAPD and news organizations who come to their defense would like to portray.

----------


## phill4paul

> Authorities in Big Bear have spotted fresh tracks believed to be those of a fugitive ex-Los Angeles police officer wanted in connection with a series of shootings and are combing the area for him, a Fire Department official told The Times.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-big-bear.html




> Federal aviation authorities on Thursday ordered media helicopters to stay away from an area around Big Bear where authorities were intensifying their search for a former LAPD officer wanted in connection with a deadly shooting spree.
> 
> Earlier Thursday, law enforcement authorities had expressed concern that *helicopter TV cameras were compromising officer safety by showing police as they combed the snow-covered mountains* where Christopher Dorner, 33, is believed to have fled.


 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...to-leave-.html

----------


## pacodever

> Federal aviation authorities on Thursday ordered media helicopters to stay away from an area around Big Bear where authorities were intensifying their search for a former LAPD officer wanted in connection with a deadly shooting spree.
> 
> Earlier Thursday, law enforcement authorities had expressed concern that helicopter TV cameras were compromising officer safety by showing police as they combed the snow-covered mountains where Christopher Dorner, 33, is believed to have fled.


Sounds like they have no intent on taking him alive, especially considering the truck shootings earlier today.

----------


## Spikender

> Earlier Thursday, law enforcement authorities had expressed concern that helicopter TV cameras were compromising officer safety by showing police as they combed the snow-covered mountains where Christopher Dorner, 33, is believed to have fled.


Damn mundanes, always compromising officer safety! Just like those freaks who whip out their cell phones whenever the police are taking care of business. Bunch of scumbags, the lot of them!

----------


## libertyjam

> Sounds like they have no intent on taking him alive, especially considering the truck shootings earlier today.

----------


## AGRP

> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-big-bear.html
> 
> 
> 
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...to-leave-.html


By "compromising officer safety" they mean they dont want to be filmed murdering someone?

----------


## phill4paul

> Sounds like they have no intent on taking him alive, especially considering the truck shootings earlier today.


  This is my thought. I'm sure a trial might get a bit messy for the LAPD's "professional image."

----------


## erowe1

> This is my thought. I'm sure a trial might get a bit messy for the LAPD's "professional image."


True. But do you really think there's any chance of him letting them take him alive anyway?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle?


To try and save our lives when as you and your buddies in the LAPD run amock and start shooting us Mundanes like dogs.

----------


## pacodever

Thankfully it is a weeknight so there shouldn't be too many people camping out there.  Looks like 11 different campgrounds.  I could just see police emerging from the woods and shooting down a family toasting smores considering their shoot-first-ask-questions-later tactics this morning.

----------


## phill4paul

> True. But do you really think there's any chance of him letting them take him alive anyway?


  No. He doesn't sound like an individual that would care to be taken alive.

----------


## TheTexan

Origin of the manifesto...

This is oldest reference to the manifesto I could find: http://venice311.org/2013/02/06/paci...icide-suspect/

It says:




> Pacific Division is on alert as multiple agencies look for Christopher Dorner – former LAPD officer, wanted for a double homicide in Irvine of the daughter of a former LAPD Captain who represented him in a board of rights hearing. *Mr. Dorner left a lengthy manifesto* – and some of his targets are individuals in the Pacific Division.


On Venice311's twitter, 19 hours ago, it says "Am reading Christopher Dorner's manifesto right now *that was released to news agencies*."

The bottom line is, this manifesto looks to have been found by cops, and given to the news agencies, by cops.  Take that for what its worth.

----------


## AFPVet

> Be careful about what type of car you drive.


... especially if you drive an assault car

----------


## LibForestPaul

> He could have use a little help with the manifesto . I wonder why he killed the kids ?Must be a whack job. Lost a crappy job in 08 and not over it yet? Probably take me a day & a twelve pack to get over losing that job , move onto something better.....


How many innocents dead in Iraq? Get off your high horse.

----------


## Philhelm

> To try and save our lives *when* you and your buddies in the LAPD run amock and start shooting us Mundanes like dogs.


When?

----------


## AGRP

> True. But do you really think there's any chance of him letting them take him alive anyway?


Are you really that dense to not read between the lines when they requested that news camera copters not be present?

----------


## TheTexan

Look at this... this is a very, very big image... but this image is posted yesterday by Venice311, which was one of the first groups reporting on this manifesto.

I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but if you scroll down to the bottom it does NOT talk about gun control

----------


## hardrightedge

This guy sounds like he was obsessed with the huffingtonpost and tmz...zombie

----------


## LibForestPaul

Given that police have covered up and have lied in the past for their own benefit. Why should I read this manifesto?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> When?


Fixed

----------


## TheTexan

The way I see it, is if the LAPD is so corrupt that it sends one of its own into a murderous rampage, there is no way that the LAPD _did not_ edit his manifesto before sending it out.

Nothing in that manifesto can be trusted.

----------


## TheTexan

> Given that police have covered up and have lied in the past for their own benefit. Why should I read this manifesto?


Exactly +rep

----------


## phill4paul

Timeline: http://timelines.latimes.com/statewi...-lapd-officer/

----------


## vita3

So Cal has quite the history of the live Hollywood chase.  

Shooting 2 girls in truck? 

Let the mass panic begin

----------


## noneedtoaggress

This HuffPo article states he posted the "manifesto" to his facebook:




> LOS ANGELES -- Former LAPD police officer and Navy reservist Christopher Jordan Dorner is currently on the run from police. In an online manifesto posted on his Facebook profile, he implicated himself in the shooting deaths of Cal State Fullerton basketball coach Monica Quan and her fiance, Keith Lawrence. They were discovered in their car Sunday evening.


Which links to this article, that published the redacted short version, hosted on Scribd. It also states that he posted the manifesto on facebook, and it also also describes the short version as "the entire manifesto".

----------


## Anti Federalist

Only police and military should have guns.

----------


## Expatriate

> This HuffPo article states he posted the "manifesto" to his facebook:
> 
> 
> 
> Which links to this article, that published the redacted short version, hosted on Scribd. Which it also also describes as "the entire manifesto".



Where did the "new extended version" originate? I wonder if some troll somewhere just added the gun control bit for the lulz.

----------


## erowe1

> Which links to this article, that published the redacted short version, hosted on Scribd. It also states that he posted the manifesto on facebook, and it also also describes the short version as "the entire manifesto".


Interesting.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Man this story is nuts all around. I just finished his "full manifesto". He seems to be a real product of pop culture, which glorifies revenge movies where the "good guy" takes on corruption in a violent way. Also some seriously racially charged cultures, and heavily statist mainstream political cultures. He seems to see violence as a force for good against "bad" people, who oppress others through their words and actions. He's a vigilante for justice in his own mind.
> 
> A point that was brought up to me was that he may have known the family members he killed and may have justified it with more reasons than simply trying to inflicting emotional pain on the father and a brutal way of showing hypocritical attitudes. It does seem a bit odd that he would target people that he may have even considered innocent or periphery to the situation, considering how he at least *attempts* to attribute some moral code to his violent actions. While I could see him targeting police officers families as a way to "show them" how they treat innocent people, and the families of those who have been on the receiving end of the LAPD's corrupt exertions of power... it does seem a bit odd considering the way he sees himself. It could be some cognitive dissonance, or he may chalk it up to "collateral damage" in his mind, or it could simply be the result of collectivist grouping. But I also wonder if there was something else behind it, if so he clearly hasn't explained it. 
> 
> At the same time he seems pretty confused with his position on gun control compared to his actions. What an utterly bizarre story. This guy is a real mess of confusion. He's the product of a culture of violence. Pop culture, state regulations, the military, glorification of political "leaders"... though he seems desperate to use his aggression to "help" change things in a positive way. It's terribly sad. He should have been taught that violence isn't the solution, but growing up in the world we do it's not hard to see how he learned the opposite.
> 
> 
> The really bizzare part is how he's compartmentalized it to the LAPD. He still supports the USG, and it's heavy handedness. He's just seen, and been a direct victim of the corruption in the LAPD. He even singles them out as substantially different from other police organizations.
> 
> ...


I don't see many contradictions at all. The manifesto as presented to us is typical of a progressive totalitarian. They will eagerly usher in the next Stalin, there's no doubt about that.

The road to hell, paved with good intentions. The ends justify the means.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I don't see many contradictions at all. The manifesto as presented to us is typical of a progressive totalitarian. They will eagerly usher in the next Stalin, there's no doubt about that.
> 
> The road to hell, paved with good intentions. The ends justify the means.


Making that omlette, Boss.

----------


## TheTexan

We live in interesting times...

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> The manifesto as presented to us is typical of a progressive totalitarian.
> 
> ...
> 
> The road to hell, paved with good intentions. The ends justify the means.


Right, and it leads to a contradictory mindset. Perhaps he doesn't see it as contradictory, which is something I took into consideration as you can see in my post. I do see it for it's contradictions which makes me wonder. I don't have access to his subjective mind so all I can do is speculate, which is what I was doing.

----------


## Original_Intent

> This reads like a modern-day Punisher. I guess there is hope for humanity after all.


I was thinking "Law Abiding Citizen".

Tinder box, meet match.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Right, and it leads to a contradictory mindset. Perhaps he doesn't see it as contradictory, which is something I took into consideration as you can see in my post. I do see it for it's contradictions which makes me wonder. I don't have access to his subjective mind so all I can do is speculate, which is what I was doing.


My guess is that he's taking his certainty about certain wrongs he can prove regarding the LAPD and generalizing them to all his beliefs.

Either that, or that part of the "manifesto" is fake.

----------


## AGRP

> Look at this... this is a very, very big image... but this image is posted yesterday by Venice311, which was one of the first groups reporting on this manifesto.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but if you scroll down to the bottom it does NOT talk about gun control


Before reading manifesto:



After reading manifesto:

----------


## thoughtomator

this is typical of the kind of thing I am seeing on Twitter:




> #LAPD i wonder what they'd do to piss him off. Did you also hear they shot people who were just delivering newspapers? hmm maybe he's right

----------


## dannno

> this is typical of the kind of thing I am seeing on Twitter:


Ya a guy in my office brought it up and we talked about it. I said it's hard to support a guy who MAY HAVE murdered a child, but when you compare him to the LAPD it's tough to know who to root for. He said he's rooting for the guy.

----------


## torchbearer

> Looks like they _really_ $#@!ed with the wrong guy.


I like angry birds too.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I like angry birds too.


And the relevance of your post is? Or do you simply follow me around making halfway sensical (as in I know what you're 'saying' though I doubt anyone else does) bull$#@! posts? Speaking of which, I can't figure out how to upgrade my internet explorer. Any suggestions?

----------


## thoughtomator

> Speaking of which, I can't figure out how to upgrade my internet explorer. Any suggestions?


Easiest way to upgrade Internet Explorer: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/fx/

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Where did the "new extended version" originate? I wonder if some troll somewhere just added the gun control bit for the lulz.


They said it was 11 pages single spaced. The original is not. Also reports are saying the media edited the original. Another thing is that "Jason Demura" (I believe that's what his name is) was interviewed on CNN far after I read the entirety. (or at least what I believe to be) He has a passage in the longer version.

----------


## dannno

This sounds like a better premise than most Hollywood movies.

----------


## torchbearer

> And the relevance of your post is? Or do you simply follow me around making halfway sensical (as in I know what you're 'saying' though I doubt anyone else does) bull$#@! posts? Speaking of which, I can't figure out how to upgrade my internet explorer. Any suggestions?


what is the objective of angry birds?
updating internet explorer: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/i...er/download-ie

----------


## BlackTerrel

There is a lot more to this story than is being told.  I believe maybe half of it.  

The truth will come out of this and corruption will be exposed... or at least I hope.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> what is the objective of angry birds?
> updating internet explorer: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/i...er/download-ie


Damn I completely missed the point.  I thought you were trying to be a dick so I responded in kind. Sorry for that. Good one though. (If only I'd gotten it the first time lol)

----------


## AGRP

> This sounds like a better premise than most Hollywood movies.


Better read than most hollywood movies.  Cant help but wonder if it was actually written by a script writer.

----------


## AuH20

the San Bernandino police scanner:

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/3771/web

----------


## AuH20

DHS is offering air reconnaissance with down-link Infrared Imaging. They want this guy bad. Every hour it's costing these departments tens of thousands of dollars.

----------


## torchbearer

> DHS is offering air reconnaissance with down-link Infrared Imaging. They want this guy bad. Every hour it's costing these departments tens of thousands of dollars.



All the LAPD has to do is admit that they lied about the man and it stops.
I guess they'd rather lose their family members than to say it.

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

> LAPD Hot Shots: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/a...wp&feedId=3711
> 
> They are scared crapless!!


bump.  just about to tune in for a bit

eta:

he has night vision goggles and suppressors.

----------


## vita3

> Better read than most hollywood movies.  Cant help but wonder if it was actually written by a script writer.


I'm also wondering who is writing this. What a distraction from the most important  topic in America today,

Killing US citizens without judge or jury or report.

----------


## Original_Intent

> DHS is offering air reconnaissance with down-link Infrared Imaging. They want this guy bad. Every hour it's costing these departments tens of thousands of dollars.


Isn't that the point of assymetric warfare (or at least one point)? I mean he commits an act and releases this manifesto, huge costly response - he's probably in a hole somewhere, letting them bleed $10k an hour and shooting up civilian vehicles because they are "jittery". Bet he lays low for a good long while before he strikes again.

----------


## AuH20

> Isn't that the point of assymetric warfare (or at least one point)? I mean he commits an act and releases this manifesto, huge costly response - he's probably in a hole somewhere, letting them bleed $10k an hour and shooting up civilian vehicles because they are "jittery". Bet he lays low for a good long while before he strikes again.


He will do more damage eluding them for 2 to 3 weeks than launching a futile attack in which he is likely eliminated. Just the mere fact that he's out there is enough to unnerve the LAPD.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Isn't that the point of assymetric warfare (or at least one point)? I mean he commits an act and releases this manifesto, huge costly response - he's probably in a hole somewhere, letting them bleed $10k an hour and shooting up civilian vehicles because they are "jittery". Bet he lays low for a good long while before he strikes again.


That's the oldest trick in the asymmetric warfare book - bleed your opponent to death by getting him to commit vast resources where you commit little. That's also why we are guaranteed to lose the "War on Terror".

----------


## awake

Both sides of this story are criminal. Forget justice.

----------


## torchbearer

> Both sides of this story are criminal. Forget justice.


it is the corruption that led to the blowback.
we won't hear that part.

----------


## AuH20

They couldn't even afford the overtime before this incident!

http://www.scpr.org/blogs/politics/2...ithout-tax-in/




> Other issues that could upend the city’s budget include ongoing litigation and police overtime. LAPD’s accrued overtime for police officers is now at 2.3 million hours, with a value of $85 million.

----------


## RickyJ

> That's the oldest trick in the asymmetric warfare book - bleed your opponent to death by getting him to commit vast resources where you commit little. That's also why we are guaranteed to lose the "War on Terror".


We lost the "war on terror" on September 11, 2001, when almost everyone so quickly believed the lie that the Muslims did it. Many have woken up since then, but not near enough.

----------


## sailingaway

Off twitter:

----------


## Philhelm

Nissan Titan:

----------


## shane77m

Deadly weapon

----------


## AGRP

> LAPD Hot Shots: http://www.radioreference.com/apps/a...wp&feedId=3711
> 
> They are scared crapless!!


Not working. Got another source?

----------


## Nirvikalpa

> Not working. Got another source?


Should be working, it works for me...

----------


## MelissaCato

Works for me too.

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

Looks like this might be the better feed for the "manhunt".

----------


## FindLiberty

Only the police should have guns... They're trained and sworn in too!

***

This is a very sad, crazy story.  I hope it gets resolved quickly.

----------


## coastie

> Should be working, it works for me...


  HOLY $#@!,  girl you are HOT, noticed the new profile pic.



And, yeah this whole situation sucks...(as coastie wipes drool from lips in a pathetic attempt to pretend he even remembers why he opened this thread). Sorry, its been a while.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> This is a very sad, crazy story.  I hope it gets resolved quickly.


Call me awful, but, I don't.

Maybe the cops will now have that apprehension that us Mundanes have when one of them pulls up right on our bumper.

If only for a few days.

And maybe it will snap a few more people out of their slumber, especially if the cops light up a bunch of Mundanes because they were driving, as the poster above noted, a Nissan Titan.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> HOLY $#@!,  girl you are HOT, noticed the new profile pic.
> 
> 
> 
> And, yeah this whole situation sucks...(as coastie wipes drool from lips in a pathetic attempt to pretend he even remembers why he opened this thread). Sorry, its been a while.


LOL

----------


## Anti Federalist

The Law Enforcement guide to Pit Bull Identification



The Law Enforcement Guide to Threatening Dog Behavior.







> Off twitter:

----------


## Henry Rogue

> DHS is offering air reconnaissance with down-link Infrared Imaging. They want this guy bad. Every hour it's costing these departments tens of thousands of dollars.


 So this is how they convince Americans they need drones over us.

----------


## coastie

> So this is how they convince Americans they need drones over us.



I think you're onto something there...something is off about this whole situation.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> So this is how they convince Americans they need drones over us.


"We need drones because our own trained agents may snap and go rogue after dealing with our blatant corruption."

Pretty $#@!ty marketing if you ask me.

Pretty bad gun control argument too. This seems like a cluster$#@! for them all around.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

If one guy can cause so much fear within the LAPD.. just think of how much trouble a few million patriots can cause O_O.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> You can drive from a sunny warm 72 degree day at the beach in Santa Monica (L.A.), 1 hour east to the foothills, then 1 more hour up into the mountains and go skiing up at Big Bear (where he left his truck):


Nice

----------


## dannno

> Call me awful, but, I don't.
> 
> Maybe the cops will now have that apprehension that us Mundanes have when one of them pulls up right on our bumper.
> 
> If only for a few days.
> 
> And maybe it will snap a few more people out of their slumber, especially if the cops light up a bunch of Mundanes because they were driving, as the poster above noted, a Nissan Titan.


Ya normally I might agree but come hell or high water I am going to be in downtown LA tomorrow night..so...I don't know what to think. Maybe this will make it more interesting

----------


## tod evans

Finding a fellow in the woods is not effectively accomplished by swarms of inter-city militarized "police", in fact it's probably the least effective way to find somebody who has actually lived in the woods.

If finding this guy was really a priority, instead of putting on a show for the media, one or maybe two local hunters would be hired..

Obviously this episode of "Crazy in America" needs to end with at least one dead body.........Better ratings if he manages to pop a couple of cops in the process though..

Bread-n-circuses...

----------


## tasteless

> Finding a fellow in the woods is not effectively accomplished by swarms of inter-city militarized "police", in fact it's probably the least effective way to find somebody who has actually lived in the woods.
> 
> If finding this guy was really a priority, instead of putting on a show for the media, one or maybe two local hunters would be hired..
> 
> Obviously this episode of "Crazy in America" needs to end with at least one dead body.........Better ratings if he manages to pop a couple of cops in the process though..
> 
> Bread-n-circuses...


Yeah, isn't he a trained sniper? If I was a cop, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be hunting this guy up in the mountains where he very well could be waiting to pick people off...

----------


## torchbearer

> If one guy can cause so much fear within the LAPD.. just think of how much trouble a few million patriots can cause O_O.


yes, indeed.

----------


## JK/SEA

A for real Rambo on the loose....makes me wonder how many more like him are on the edge....

i'm not surprised...no sirree..not surprised one bit.

----------


## Uncle Emanuel Watkins

> He is a sicko. Attacking innocent people instead of the person he has the problem with. Sounds just like our crazy nation to be honest.


All of the social communist state of California has given up having decided to return to the ocean as sea mammals.  This man should have waited for them to do so.  Intolerance will never win.

----------


## Uncle Emanuel Watkins

> A for real Rambo on the loose....makes me wonder how many more like him are on the edge....
> 
> i'm not surprised...no sirree..not surprised one bit.


The Federal government is stirring up a lot of violence.  Aren't they aware that Infringing on the second amendment is an attack on the American people and the U.S. Constitution?  For an American, the most evil tyrants in the world, worse than a thousand Adolph Hitlers, should be those who threaten the sanctity of the U.S. Constitution.

----------


## Uncle Emanuel Watkins

> If one guy can cause so much fear within the LAPD.. just think of how much trouble a few million patriots can cause O_O.


Patriots?  Where?  I'm sure there is a lot of potential, but most haven't given it a lot of thought.

----------


## fisharmor

> I'm also wondering who is writing this. What a distraction from the most important  topic in America today,
> 
> Killing US citizens without judge or jury or report.


Thread winner.
You ruined this for me.
But I think it needed to be ruined.

----------


## fisharmor

Though I gotta say the entire episode here is intriguing.
The system only works because everyone agrees to it.
We're seeing what can happen if only one man decides he's not playing by the system's rules anymore.

I think I think more highly of Anonymous' strategy now.
Total withdrawal of consent.
To simply refuse to recognize the game's basic rules.

Also, on killing children... well, there were rules to the basic game, and this guy wasn't the first one to completely ignore them.
I'm not condoning killing children.  But I understand.
It's as if he's saying "Hey, you guys don't want rules?  Ok, let's play without rules for a while and see how you really like it."

Moral?  Not so much.  Logical?  Absolutely.

----------


## phill4paul

> Though I gotta say the entire episode here is intriguing.
> The system only works because everyone agrees to it.
> We're seeing what can happen if only one man decides he's not playing by the system's rules anymore.
> 
> I think I think more highly of Anonymous' strategy now.
> Total withdrawal of consent.
> To simply refuse to recognize the game's basic rules.
> 
> Also, on killing children... well, there were rules to the basic game, and this guy wasn't the first one to completely ignore them.
> ...


  I think phrasing matters. When one thinks of children one thinks of juveniles. The two people he murdered were adults. One of these was the daughter of the ex-LAPD officer that represented him.

----------


## fisharmor

> I think phrasing matters. When one thinks of children one thinks of juveniles. The two people he murdered were adults. One of these was the daughter of the ex-LAPD officer that represented him.


I agree: I think "children" connotes innocence.  It's probably why it continues to be used.  That the "children" were adults is immaterial if you're looking to be philosophically consistent.  I'll leave the innocence argument alone, but I'll definitely not refer to them as children going forward.

----------


## pcosmar

I don't condone his initial actions,, and don't defend him. (before I get accused of just that)
But I hope he remains free for a while,, and terrorizes the terrorists in uniform for some time.

Cops have shot up 2 women delivering papers. And have shot up another truck  simply because it might be him (it wasn't)

I hope he is mistakenly reported to be in a Mall,, near a school,, on the I-5 during rush hour,, everywhere.
Just to magnify the stupidity of police,, 

If cops shoot up enough innocents,, brazenly and openly,, perhaps some folks will wake the $#@! up.

----------


## phill4paul

I am wondering if he is even in the mountains. First, he left A bag with identification ( his police badge) at an airport, next he unsuccessfully (?) attempts to take a boat from a marina letting someone know that he is going to Mexico, then he ditches and burns his truck up at Big Bear. He seems to be making them cast their nets in many directions on purpose.





> Law enforcement officials have lost the trail of Christopher Jordan Dorner, the fugitive ex-cop accused of killing three people in a revenge-fueled spree.
> 
> Authorities spotted fresh tracks in Big Bear Valley much earlier Thursday, leading away from a burned vehicle they believe was the fugitive's, and began combing the area looking for him.
> 
> But by late Thursday, the search had proved fruitless.



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...rch-throu.html

----------


## pacodever

I wonder how many innocent lives are worth concealing  the LAPDs corruption.

----------


## TheTexan

> I am wondering if he is even in the mountains. First, he left A bag with identification ( his police badge) at an airport, next he unsuccessfully (?) attempts to take a boat from a marina letting someone know that he is going to Mexico, then he ditches and burns his truck up at Big Bear. He seems to be making them cast their nets in many directions on purpose.


Heh latest news it seems they were looking for him in San Diego... based on what they now believe is a hoax call.

/popcorn

----------


## tod evans

> I wonder how many innocent lives are worth concealing  the LAPDs corruption.



All of them!

Reported.

----------


## Uncle Emanuel Watkins

> Though I gotta say the entire episode here is intriguing.
> The system only works because everyone agrees to it.
> We're seeing what can happen if only one man decides he's not playing by the system's rules anymore.
> 
> I think I think more highly of Anonymous' strategy now.
> Total withdrawal of consent.
> To simply refuse to recognize the game's basic rules.
> 
> Also, on killing children... well, there were rules to the basic game, and this guy wasn't the first one to completely ignore them.
> ...


This is a perfect example of how Charles Manson worked.  Look crazy while leaving it empty for them between the lines of the manifesto.  Eventually people will read between the lines filling in the blanks, start following you around, drop acid, etch swastikas into their foreheads, and worship you as a god.

----------


## phill4paul

> Heh latest news it seems they were looking for him in San Diego... based on what they now believe is a hoax call.
> 
> /popcorn


  This guy has more sightings then Elvis!

----------


## phill4paul

You're sitting in your mountain home having a cup of hot cocoa when........




  Christ! I'm surprised this situation hasn't gotten a lot worse than it has already.

----------


## tod evans

> Christ! I'm surprised this situation hasn't gotten a lot worse than it has already.


Aw come on man.........They already said it's for the kids...

----------


## Expatriate

> I agree: I think "children" connotes innocence.  It's probably why it continues to be used.  That the "children" were adults is immaterial if you're looking to be philosophically consistent.  I'll leave the innocence argument alone, but I'll definitely not refer to them as children going forward.




Everyone's someone's child. If you look at it that way, a lot of US soldiers and cops are child killers...

----------


## coastie

I read earlier they were going door to door in LA. Dont have link, im on my pos phone and it probably just took me 10 minutes to type out these two sentences, Ill be logged off, then have to go to email to get the new password, then it will post., so therefore im not even attempting to find a link right now, else my phone start taking flying lessons.... Sorry, no sleep in going on three days.:/

----------


## moostraks

> I think phrasing matters. When one thinks of children one thinks of juveniles. The two people he murdered were adults. One of these was the daughter of the ex-LAPD officer that represented him.





> I agree: I think "children" connotes innocence.  It's probably why it continues to be used.  That the "children" were adults is immaterial if you're looking to be philosophically consistent.  I'll leave the innocence argument alone, but I'll definitely not refer to them as children going forward.


What he is doing is just what is most despicable about most any war. He truly is a product of his careeer choices. His tactics are reminiscent of the raping and pillaging of that occurs in war. He is seeking to demoralize through an easy path because he is an immoral human being with a particular goal to accomplish and his rant about ethics and his compass pointed north is very evidently b.s. He seems to have overloaded as a previous poster pointed out on pop culture and being narcissistic with no true framework of what real heroic action is thinks he can resolve his pain by using easy targets to inflict pain on those he is angry with and then fancies he is going to be the agent for real moral change. While wise to point out the utter pathetic response by the LAPD it is also horrifying to think that some in our society find his actions justifiable. IF tshtf we truly are going to be screwed.

----------


## phill4paul

> I read earlier they were going door to door in LA. Dont have link, im on my pos phone and it probably just took me 10 minutes to type out these two sentences, Ill be logged off, then have to go to email to get the new password, then it will post., so therefore im not even attempting to find a link right now, else my phone start taking flying lessons.... Sorry, no sleep in going on three days.:/


  Hey, coastie, given your situation in might not be a bad idea to disconnect for a coupla days and get some rest. Not trying to run your life. Just worried about you.

----------


## fisharmor

> What he is doing is just what is most despicable about most any war. He truly is a product of his careeer choices. His tactics are reminiscent of the raping and pillaging of that occurs in war. He is seeking to demoralize through an easy path because he is an immoral human being with a particular goal to accomplish and his rant about ethics and his compass pointed north is very evidently b.s. He seems to have overloaded as a previous poster pointed out on pop culture and being narcissistic with no true framework of what real heroic action is thinks he can resolve his pain by using easy targets to inflict pain on those he is angry with and then fancies he is going to be the agent for real moral change. While wise to point out the utter pathetic response by the LAPD it is also horrifying to think that some in our society find his actions justifiable. IF tshtf we truly are going to be screwed.


Oh I'm with you.  And I do consider myself a worse person for it, but the irony of his doing this to the people who actively preach that particular gospel to all of society doesn't taste that bad to me.

----------


## whippoorwill

cray

----------


## brandon

Just read this guys manifesto, and I agree with him on just about nothing other than his taste in comedians.  Was a fascinating read though. I can't believe he is of sound mind enough to write that well.  He knows exactly what he's doing.  Hopefully they get him before any more civilians die.

----------


## moostraks

> Oh I'm with you.  And I do consider myself a worse person for it, but the irony of his doing this to the people who actively preach that particular gospel to all of society doesn't taste that bad to me.


I guess I should have been clear it was just that what you 2 posted struck me as I was thinking about the issue. Not sayin' either of you are championing his cause.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

LA is going to see a HUGE lawsuit




> “The vehicle is a different color. The license plate doesn’t match. There’s nothing there for you to start shooting people. And even if they had the person in question… Mr. Dorner…you still have to give them an opportunity to get out. You can’t just start administering street justice,” said Jonas.
> 
> http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...ad-no-warning/


I don't see how they will avoid firing the officers involved, and charging them with attempted homicide

----------


## thoughtomator

> I don't see how they will avoid firing the officers involved, and charging them with attempted homicide


If you're betting I'll take the other side of that bet.

----------


## tod evans

> I don't see how they will avoid firing the officers involved, and charging them with attempted homicide


What?

What part of "officer safety" don't you understand?...

There will be no charges, in fact I'd be surprised if there's even an investigation..

Hut-hut.......Ra-rah, go team....

----------


## AFPVet

> If one guy can cause so much fear within the LAPD.. just think of how much trouble a few million patriots can cause O_O.


Exactly. This guy was a former military officer and cop... I don't know what he did in the military, but there are a lot of other people out there with a vast amount of specialized training and experience.

----------


## tasteless

> This guy has more sightings then Elvis!


It's a pretty bad time to be a big bald black guy in California right now

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> If you're betting I'll take the other side of that bet.





> What?
> 
> What part of "officer safety" don't you understand?...
> 
> There will be no charges, in fact I'd be surprised if there's even an investigation..
> 
> Hut-hut.......Ra-rah, go team....






> “There was no warning. There were no orders. No commands. Just gunshots.”


Seriously? I am sure the police and DA won't want to do it but the citizens are already demanding it. Its not even 24hrs and the asian news girls already have lawyers putting out press releases. 

Officer Safety does not apply here as they were not ANY threat. They pulled over, and were shot. As stated NO orders or commands just bullets. Even in a actual felony stop of an actual suspect loaded with guns they cant just get out and open fire.

----------


## Philhelm

> It's a pretty bad time to be a big bald black guy in California right now


Or to be a couple of Asian women delivering newspapers.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Officer Safety does not apply here as they were not ANY threat. They pulled over, and were shot. As stated NO orders or commands just bullets. Even in a actual felony stop of an actual suspect loaded with guns they cant just get out and open fire.


I know that, and you know that, but just try getting a prosecutor to act on it. I'll be shocked if they're not given a free pass on this. Only if there's a relentless media firestorm over an extended period of time will anything at all happen to them. They probably won't even be named.

----------


## JK/SEA

> What?
> 
> What part of "officer safety" don't you understand?...
> 
> There will be no charges, in fact I'd be surprised if there's even an investigation..
> 
> Hut-hut.......Ra-rah, go team....


as it should be in a police state...

----------


## Athan

We need popcorn! LOTS AND LOTS OF POPCORN!

----------


## fisharmor

> I know that, and you know that, but just try getting a prosecutor to act on it. I'll be shocked if they're not given a free pass on this. Only if there's a relentless media firestorm over an extended period of time will anything at all happen to them. They probably won't even be named.


If they gloss over some Asians getting murdered and claim officer safety, I can't really see LA exploding into a days-long race riot that trashes the city.

----------


## MelissaCato

What's the latest ? What scanner are ya'll listening too today ? I'm transplanting my flowers and baking pies for the rest of my day  . I need something to listen too.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> I have a feeling if people in LA saw Dorner they would not turn him in or report him.



He needs to go hide in the neighborhood where Denzel Washington told the residents that "King Kong ain't got sh*t on me!" 

That seems to be a good place to lay low for awhile without getting turned in......

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> This HuffPo article states he posted the "manifesto" to his facebook:
> 
> 
> 
> Which links to this article, that published the redacted short version, hosted on Scribd. It also states that he posted the manifesto on facebook, and it also also describes the short version as "the entire manifesto".



And it appears his Facebook page has been deactivated or deleted.....

----------


## thoughtomator

> What's the latest ? What scanner are ya'll listening too today ? I'm transplanting my flowers and baking pies for the rest of my day  . I need something to listen too.


I think they're still terrorizing people at Big Bear mountain looking for someone who isn't there.

----------


## SeanTX

> It's a pretty bad time to be a big bald black guy in California right now


I just remembered, kind of off-topic, but it was a year ago yesterday that Orange County deputy Darren Sandberg executed Marine Sgt. Manny Loggins in front of his daughters because the deputy thought he was "acting irrationally." 

He was a big black guy too, which is probably what caused the murdering deputy to open up on him. It seems kind of like poetic justice that one year later cowardly Southern Cal LEOs are having to live in fear of one of their "brothers" ...

----------


## tod evans

> And it appears his Facebook page has been deactivated or deleted.....


The American public is not capable of determining fact from bull$#@!, so in the interest of all concerned, only federally approved media releases will be available for scrutiny....

----------


## AGRP

Someone mentioned this before: How is this any different than Obama's kill list?

----------


## SeanTX

> I think they're still terrorizing people at Big Bear mountain looking for someone who isn't there.


I wonder what happens if someone refuses to comply with their door-to-door "knock and talk" ? Do they kick in the door ?

----------


## Philhelm

> Someone mentioned this before: How is this any different than Obama's kill list?


Chris Dorner isn't out to get _me_.

----------


## Philhelm

> I wonder what happens if someone refuses to comply with their door-to-door "knock and talk" ? Do they kick in the door ?


I'd imagine it would escalate straight to shooting.  As Anti Federalist always bemoans:  Circular Force Continuum.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> Off twitter:


Suspect description:

----------


## coastie

> Hey, coastie, given your situation in might not be a bad idea to disconnect for a coupla days and get some rest. Not trying to run your life. Just worried about you.


I'm good, I vented to AF on the phone for 2 hours last night, I'm more worried he got enough sleep to work today, lol.





Yes, I have the King's phone number...u mad bro? lol

----------


## ronpaulhawaii



----------


## SeanTX

> I'd imagine it would escalate straight to shooting.  As Anti Federalist always bemoans:  Circular Force Continuum.


  And I suppose also charges of "interfering with police business " or some other contempt of cop sort of charge (if you survive). Just shows that the people have more reason to fear the police than they do some random killer.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> You're sitting in your mountain home having a cup of hot cocoa when........
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Christ! I'm surprised this situation hasn't gotten a lot worse than it has already.




Wow!! Look at all the DHS money they're wearing and carrying! Go 'Merica!

----------


## shane77m

> 


I think he looks more like LL Cool J.

----------


## coastie

> LA is going to see a HUGE lawsuit
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how they will avoid firing the officers involved, and charging them with attempted homicide


If you watch the whole video in the link, there was a second civilian shooting just a couple of blocks away. Guy was driving a Honda Ridgeline, which looks nothing like a Nissan. Said he saw one police car on the side of the road sitting there, thought nothing of it and kept driving then BAM-another police car rams his truck, and they get out and just start firing on the guy. Like the two women, no warning, just started shooting. He is talking to an attorney, as well.

----------


## Original_Intent

> I wonder what happens if someone refuses to comply with their door-to-door "knock and talk" ? Do they kick in the door ?


On the scanner last night I heard one cop say "Notify 911 that they will have a call coming in because the person inside wants to verify that we are police officers." and then gave the address they were at. I was surprised that they were that rational - maybe the top brass realized how quickly this could escalate into major blowback and they are making an attempt to be reasonable.

----------


## Philhelm

Chris Dorner looks a lot like Forest Whitaker:

----------


## tod evans

> Just shows that the people have more reason to fear the police than they do some random killer.


I'm fairly certain it's hundreds of times more likely to have your life ruined by a cop than some random psycho....

If not thousands...

----------


## Tyler_Durden

I kinda dig the intimidation portions of the manifesto. The use of military acronyms and jargon. He was def trying to intimidate the LAPD and it's obvious that it's working......I just wonder how much of the jargon about his skill and proficiency was him blowing smoke. Popcorn ready.

----------


## coastie

> On the scanner last night I heard one cop say "Notify 911 that they will have a call coming in because the person inside wants to verify that we are police officers." and then gave the address they were at. I was surprised that they were that rational - *maybe the top brass realized how quickly this could escalate into major blowback and they are making an attempt to be reasonable*.


I doubt it. Some officers just have better heads on their shoulders than others. And if the right clique isn't together at the same time, they aren't going to do anything stupid when they have someone around like Dorner was when he was active. This goes both ways. ALL of the potential future Dorners are being identified as we speak, I can almost guarantee it. Personnel files are being scrutinized, people are getting transfered or fired. 

That 71 yr old woman is in ICU right now with bullets in her back. The chief didn't even attempt an apology. Dorner is looking more and more vindicated by the minute(his charges in his manifesto, not the actions he's taking).

I wonder, what will the innocent body count be in the end, not including homicide only? So far, the score is 3-3. The cops keep acting like this, and its only a matter of time before they break the tie.

----------


## SeanTX

> On the scanner last night I heard one cop say "Notify 911 that they will have a call coming in because the person inside wants to verify that we are police officers." and then gave the address they were at. I was surprised that they were that rational - maybe the top brass realized how quickly this could escalate into major blowback and they are making an attempt to be reasonable.


Well, that's good to hear at least. I'm sure the officers wanted to kick in doors and hand out some beatdowns , but the higher-ups decided that they had had enough bad publicity for one day.

----------


## coastie

> Chris Dorner looks a lot like Forest Whitaker:


Meh, maybe in 15 years...I'm telling you, LL Cool J gained some weight, its really him.

----------


## tod evans

> Popcorn ready.


You're to eat bread with the circus!

Reported!

----------


## AGRP

Be on the lookout for george foreman

----------


## coastie

> Be on the lookout for george foreman


Damn, how many faces does this guy have!?!?! LOL

----------


## AGRP

> I kinda dig the intimidation portions of the manifesto. The use of military acronyms and jargon. He was def trying to intimidate the LAPD and it's obvious that it's working......I just wonder how much of the jargon about his skill and proficiency was him blowing smoke. Popcorn ready.



I got the popcorn i was half way through the manifesto. This is much better than the hunt for the one armed man.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

http://news.yahoo.com/career-woes-pe...000024963.html

Outdoor skills maybe?
"A friend from those days, Jamie Usera, told the Los Angeles Times (http://lat.ms/Xpjawr ) that he saw no red flags. The two would have friendly debates about the extent of racism in the U.S. and *take trips into the Utah desert to hunt rabbits*, Usera told the newspaper."

Some history of integrity:

"In 2002, as a Navy ensign in Enid, Okla., Dorner and another man found a bank bag in the street holding nearly $8,000 and turned it over to authorities, who returned it to a church, the Eagle News and Eagle reported (http://bit.ly/XsVfdG ).
"I didn't work for it, so it's not mine," he said at the time. "And, it was for the church. It's not so much the integrity, but it was someone else's money. I would hope someone would do that for me."

----------


## dannno

Wow, so they are still focusing on the Big Bear mountain areas. Looks like a snowstorm is moving through.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-big-bear.html

He does have hunting experience, anybody think he is still up there though?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Unredacted version here.
> 
> ETA: I can't find where it was originally posted.





> This is just developing. My unredacted version of his manifesto is what the OP has posted. There is another longer version where he is calling for an AWB saying that if assault weapons were banned this would not have been able to happen, stating that Diane Feinstein needs to seize the opportunity to further the AWB. It seems someone may have added it. I'm not sure, trying to read through it.
> 
> It is here.


Has there been any confirmation on the edits to his "manifesto". Is the long one the real one?

If the long one is real, it's no wonder the media and the left would want that buried. He was media (and left wing propaganda) obsessed. Maybe he saw the "Lincoln" movie and it helped him decide to do this. Can't imagine that he would miss that movie based on his obsessions. The ends justify the means.

This really blows the usual leftist propaganda out of the water. We now have a murderer/terrorist, who is black, and was brainwashed by CNN/MSNBC. Doesn't fit the agenda at all.

From the manifesto:




> Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Pat Harvey, Brian Williams, Soledad Obrien, Wolf Blitzer, Meredith Viera, Tavis Smiley, and Anderson Cooper, keep up the great work...

----------


## Philhelm

I wonder if he would make good of his statement, "When the truth comes out, the killing stops."

----------


## phill4paul

> He does have hunting experience, anybody think he is still up there though?


  I don't think so. He has tried to throw them off by attempting to take a boat to Mexico and leaving a bag with his badge at an airport. Time will tell.

----------


## coastie

> I wonder if he would make good of his statement, "When the truth comes out, the killing stops."


I think he would. But they aren't going to let the truth come out. So either he'll keep killing, or be killed. Need to restock my popcorn supply I suppose.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Hey, coastie, given your situation in might not be a bad idea to disconnect for a coupla days and get some rest. Not trying to run your life. Just worried about you.


I concur...take a break.

The continuing crisis will not have gone away, trust me.

----------


## AuH20

Sacramento SWAT Commander Concerned:

http://www.kcra.com/news/Sacramento-...b/-/index.html





> Somebody who is willing to die for their cause, or worse yet, has no expectation to survive, has a huge advantage over those of us who do, the SWAT commander said.
> 
> Members of Sacramentos SWAT team assisted in the manhunt for accused killer Aaron Bassler in Mendocino County in October 2012.
> 
> 
> Winn said that situation is similar to the Dorner case.
> 
> Officials said Bassler, a 35-year-old survivalist, was roaming 120 square miles of rugged forestland.
> 
> ...

----------


## fisharmor

n/m

----------


## coastie

> I concur...take a break.
> 
> The continuing crisis will not have gone away, trust me.



I would, if I could find something to get into for more than 30 seconds. I'm fine, got nowhere to go today, kids at school, not soon enough to be ex wife is at work, and everything's gravy...Just kinda piddling around with a video atm, think I'm gonna enter Alex Jone's second Paul Revere video contest... . Thanks for the concern guys. 

Back O/T:


If he is there in that area, I would surmise its only a matter of time before he's caught...isn't it easier to find someone making tracks through the snow? Especially from the air? I honestly don't know, I don't have any combat training in the mountains....where are our former grunts and Marines at?

----------


## fisharmor

Darnit, beaten to the LL joke

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I'm good, I vented to AF on the phone for 2 hours last night, I'm more worried he got enough sleep to work today, lol.
> 
> Yes, I have the King's phone number...u mad bro? lol


LOL - I'm good.

I hope that having a chance to vent did some good.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> If you're betting I'll take the other side of that bet.


Me too.

Hell, I'll give odds.

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

> If he is there in that area, I would surmise its only a matter of time before he's caught...isn't it easier to find someone making tracks through the snow? Especially from the air? I honestly don't know, I don't have any combat training in the mountains....where are our former grunts and Marines at?


Supposedly he has a barret 50 cal (from his manifesto) and night vision goggles and silencers (from police reports).  If anything I'd think the chopper needs to be more worried about him than he needs to be worried about the chopper.

----------


## pacodever

Anyone working on the movie trailer yet?  Might give it a shot after work. 

Deep movie trailer voice:

"What would YOU do if they took everything from you? "

"in a corrupt world,  betrayed by his brothers, one man decides to fight back" 

Starring Xzibit

----------


## JK/SEA

Hope he surrenders to a Jerkwater U.S.A small town cop. Goes to trial sucking more money from the State, gets off easy by reason of PTSD, spends a few years getting mental help, and gets a LEO job in Admin. somewhere when he gets cleared....

sound familiar?

Calling Col. Troutman.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> I think he would. But they aren't going to let the truth come out. So either he'll keep killing, or be killed. Need to restock my popcorn supply I suppose.


I think he would too, he seems to have made it pretty damn clear that this is a personal vendetta to bring attention to corruption which soiled his name for whistleblowing. He says he doesn't believe he'll live to see his story vindicated, but that seems to be what he is after.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> I think he would too, he seems to have made it pretty damn clear that this is a personal vendetta to bring attention to corruption which soiled his name for whistleblowing. He says he doesn't believe he'll live to see his story vindicated, but that seems to be what he is after.


Which I should add is a bit ironic considering he pretty much $#@!ed it up over this course of actions.

----------


## torchbearer

> I kinda dig the intimidation portions of the manifesto. The use of military acronyms and jargon. He was def trying to intimidate the LAPD and it's obvious that it's working......I just wonder how much of the jargon about his skill and proficiency was him blowing smoke. Popcorn ready.


If he has SA-7 stinger missiles, he's been planning this since 2008.
those aren't easy to aquire.

----------


## torchbearer

> Wow, so they are still focusing on the Big Bear mountain areas. Looks like a snowstorm is moving through.
> 
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-big-bear.html
> 
> He does have hunting experience, anybody think he is still up there though?



the burning truck was to lead cops away from where he is-
he is seeking a boat to navigate the coast. he is a navy man.

----------


## Original_Intent

> If he has SA-7 stinger missiles, he's been planning this since 2008.
> those aren't easy to aquire.


Yeah, like I said before, so much of this reminds me of "Law-Abiding Citizen".

----------


## jmdrake

> This is just developing. My unredacted version of his manifesto is what the OP has posted. There is another longer version where he is calling for an AWB saying that if assault weapons were banned this would not have been able to happen, stating that Diane Feinstein needs to seize the opportunity to further the AWB. It seems someone may have added it. I'm not sure, trying to read through it.
> 
> It is here.


Let's see.  So this guy claims on the one hand to have anti-aircraft missiles, and then on the other hand that an assault weapons ban would have "prevented this"?  Oh yeah.  Something doesn't smell right about this manifesto.

----------


## coastie

> the burning truck was to lead cops away from where he is-
> he is seeking a boat to navigate the coast. he is a navy man.


It doesn't appear he was any type of boat driver from what I remember off-hand on his Navy background. In the CG, for example(Navy, Jr.), there is only one rating(MOS) that normally drive small boats...and I don't recall ever meeting an officer(as he was) that did while I was in. It may be different in the Navy, I don't know.

 It looks to be only a 30km run to Mexico from SD via water, so I guess it is plausible. I would've thought he'd kill the old man he(allegedly) stole a boat from, why would you leave a witness with that type of info?

----------


## torchbearer

> It doesn't appear he was any type of boat driver from what I remember off-hand on his Navy background. In the CG, for example(Navy, Jr.), there is only one rating(MOS) that normally drive small boats...and I don't recall ever meeting an officer(as he was) that did while I was in. It may be different in the Navy, I don't know.
> 
> It looks to be only a 30km run to Mexico from SD via water, so I guess it is plausible. I would've thought he'd kill the old man he(allegedly) stole a boat from, why would you leave a witness with that type of info?



I don't think he is killing aimlessly like the cops are.
he is saving his bullets for the 'bad guys'.
rope stuck in prop seems like a novice mistake.

----------


## coastie

> Let's see.  So this guy claims on the one hand to have anti-aircraft missiles, and then on the other hand that an assault weapons ban would have "prevented this"?  Oh yeah.  Something doesn't smell right about this manifesto.


Wow, I haven't read the longer one, gonna check it out(and download it, I suggest all do the same). Damn, ate the last bag of popcorn, too. I agree, something weird is going on here.

----------


## Pericles

> Let's see.  So this guy claims on the one hand to have anti-aircraft missiles, and then on the other hand that an assault weapons ban would have "prevented this"?  Oh yeah.  Something doesn't smell right about this manifesto.


I'm tending to discount part of that as a disinformation tactic to get alternative media coverage for his firing from LAPD and the associated incident that led to it. From an operations perspective, I'd guess he has spent about $10,000 on this, and the .gov could easily be going over $1 mil per hour.

----------


## TonySutton

> <snip>
> Back O/T:
> 
> 
> If he is there in that area, I would surmise its only a matter of time before he's caught...isn't it easier to find someone making tracks through the snow? Especially from the air? I honestly don't know, I don't have any combat training in the mountains....where are our former grunts and Marines at?


I doubt he is in the mountains but snow or not you just stick to the game trails and it will take pro's to track you or dogs.  He seems pretty smart so I would suspect anyplace he left a trail should be the last place you should look.  I would go to Oakland and hole up for a few weeks and then reach out again.

----------


## coastie

> I don't think he is killing aimlessly like the cops are.
> he is saving his bullets for the 'bad guys'.
> rope stuck in prop seems like a novice mistake.



Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. But if he made it to Mexico, that's it, its over. He'd stick out like a sore thumb there, and none of his named targets are going to chase him there. Plus all of the guns he (supposedly) has with him?

I've seen a "professional" or two get line stuck in a prop a couple of times. Hell, I did it three months ago for the first time ever before my dad sold his boat, in front of no less than 100 people at the Navy marina here.

----------


## Danke

> If he has SA-7 *stinger* missiles, he's been planning this since 2008.
> those aren't easy to acquire.


I think they are impossible to acquire.

----------


## Pericles

> I think they are impossible to acquire.


Maybe he bought them at a gun show

----------


## pacodever

losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/08/attorney-talk-of-lawsuit-premature-in-torrance-shooting/




> This is such a blatant violation of protocol and a textbook case of excessive force we would expect the city would want to talk to us and see what we can work out,” Jonas said. He declined to provide any additional details.





> The vehicle is a different color. The license plate doesn’t match. There’s nothing there for you to start shooting people,” said Jonas. “And even if they had the person in question… Mr. Dorner…you still have to give them an opportunity to get out. You can’t just start administering street justice.


Nice. Toyota,  Nissan.  Blue,  Grey. 40 and 70 year old Asian/Hispanic women, 270 pound black man. Innocent,  guilty. Harmless, threat. Guess it's all the same to these cowards.

----------


## pacodever

> I think they are impossible to acquire.


Al Qaida connections.  That's why DHS is involved already...

----------


## tod evans

LAPD and the feds aren't doing very well when it comes to picking on an average man...

Could be their facade is crumbling.....

Should have stuck to picking on stoners and immigrants.....Maybe the occasional starlette....Or even psychos who like to hole-up..

Darn it! This guy isn't following the script....

Where's the ring-leader?...Bring on the wonderbread...

----------


## phill4paul

Hey, Bob, what the hell is this?



  Dunno, Jim, never seen it before....wonder if it a reference to something....

----------


## AGRP



----------


## coastie

Wait a minute...I'm reading this again, and he says his candidate he voted for in 2012 was Jon Huntsman....yeah, this Jon Huntsman :



> "I would absolutely veto the (assault weapons)ban. I have always stood firmly for 2nd Amendment rights, and my record in Utah reflects it. With a name like 'Huntsman' it really goes without saying."


And then he praises politicians and media figures that are the polar opposite on that issue, and blames a lack of an assault weapons ban for some of his actions. 


Que?

----------


## KCIndy

> Has there been any confirmation on the edits to his "manifesto". Is the long one the real one?
> 
> If the long one is real, it's no wonder the media and the left would want that buried. He was media (and left wing propaganda) obsessed. Maybe he saw the "Lincoln" movie and it helped him decide to do this. Can't imagine that he would miss that movie based on his obsessions. The ends justify the means.
> 
> This really blows the usual leftist propaganda out of the water. We now have a murderer/terrorist, who is black, and was brainwashed by CNN/MSNBC. Doesn't fit the agenda at all.



Interesting.

I KTLA's web site posted what is alleged to be his manifesto, and it has NO mention of TV celebs or politicians:

http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-chri...#axzz2KKuDJ1Jo

After hearing the media constantly refer to the "manifesto" as "rambling" and "insane" I'm struck by how coherent and organized it is... assuming this is the real thing.  Lots of accusations of police corruption that appear to be pretty well documented.  

If this is real, I get the impression this is a "take no $#@!" kind of guy who was simply pushed too far.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...ler-continues/

Off and On Again Tactical Alert LAPD

----------


## Anti Federalist

*LAPD, Torrance Police Shot At Innocent People In Frenzied Hunt For Former Cop Christopher Dorner* 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=mostpopular

LOS ANGELES -- Police officers shot innocent people during the frenzied manhunt for Christopher Dorner, a former cop suspected of murdering 3 people and shooting several more. 

Officers from the Los Angeles and Torrance police departments engaged in two separate shootings Thursday morning in Torrance, Calif., reports KTLA. They had come across two different vehicles that were similar to the description of Dorner's getaway car, a gray 2005 Nissan Titan pickup.

The first shooting incident happened at 5:20 a.m. Officers from the Hollywood division of the LAPD shot two people who turned out to have no connection to Dorner's crimes. They were transported to the hospital with gunshot injuries.

The second incident occurred 25 minutes later and involved Torrance police. While shots were fired, there were no reported injuries.

In a press conference Thursday morning, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck confirmed that police shot innocent bystanders during the hunt for Dorner. He detailed the two victims' gunshot wounds: 

"One has a minor gunshot wound and is in the process of being released. The second person is in stable condition, with two gunshot wounds," said Chief Beck. "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers."

Sources tell the Los Angeles Times that the people shot by police were two women delivering newspapers. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back. 

Dorner, a former LAPD officer and Navy reservist, is suspected of fatally shooting Cal State Fullerton basketball coach Monica Quan and her fiance, USC security officer Keith Lawrence. When Quan and Lawrence were found in their car Sunday evening, authorities publicly stated they had no known motive or suspects. 

That changed Wednesday, when Dorner published a multi-page manifesto on Facebook implicating himself in the murders of Quan and Lawrence. 

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," wrote Dorner on his Facebook profile. The former cop blamed the LAPD for his termination, listing people he believed were responsible for his dismissal. 

One of the people on the list included Quan's father, retired LAPD captain Randal Quan. Cpt. Quan had represented Dorner during his dismissal hearing before the police Board of Rights, reports Associated Press.

During a press conference that night, Irvine police Chief David L. Maggard announced a manhunt for Dorner, warning the public that he was armed and dangerous.

----------


## phill4paul

> http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...ler-continues/
> 
> Off and On Again Tactical Alert LAPD


  At least dog owners can sleep easy for an evening or two....




> Routine calls, such as illegally parked cars *and barking dogs*, are not handled during the event.

----------


## coastie

> Interesting.
> 
> I KTLA's web site posted what is alleged to be his manifesto, and it has NO mention of TV celebs or politicians:
> 
> http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-chri...#axzz2KKuDJ1Jo
> 
> After hearing the media constantly refer to the "manifesto" as "rambling" and "insane" I'm struck by how coherent and organized it is... assuming this is the real thing.  Lots of accusations of police corruption that appear to be pretty well documented.  
> 
> If this is real, I get the impression this is a "take no $#@!" kind of guy who was simply pushed too far.


Which makes his claiming to have supported Jon Huntsman all the more strange. He stated he'd veto any assault weapons ban. See my post above the one I quoted.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*LAPD, Torrance Police Shot At Innocent People In Frenzied Hunt For Former Cop Christopher Dorner* 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=mostpopular

LOS ANGELES -- Police officers shot innocent people during the frenzied manhunt for Christopher Dorner, a former cop suspected of murdering 3 people and shooting several more. 

Officers from the Los Angeles and Torrance police departments engaged in two separate shootings Thursday morning in Torrance, Calif., reports KTLA. They had come across two different vehicles that were similar to the description of Dorner's getaway car, a gray 2005 Nissan Titan pickup.

The first shooting incident happened at 5:20 a.m. Officers from the Hollywood division of the LAPD shot two people who turned out to have no connection to Dorner's crimes. They were transported to the hospital with gunshot injuries.

The second incident occurred 25 minutes later and involved Torrance police. While shots were fired, there were no reported injuries.

In a press conference Thursday morning, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck confirmed that police shot innocent bystanders during the hunt for Dorner. He detailed the two victims' gunshot wounds: 

"One has a minor gunshot wound and is in the process of being released. The second person is in stable condition, with two gunshot wounds," said Chief Beck. "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers."

Sources tell the Los Angeles Times that the people shot by police were two women delivering newspapers. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back. 

Dorner, a former LAPD officer and Navy reservist, is suspected of fatally shooting Cal State Fullerton basketball coach Monica Quan and her fiance, USC security officer Keith Lawrence. When Quan and Lawrence were found in their car Sunday evening, authorities publicly stated they had no known motive or suspects. 

That changed Wednesday, when Dorner published a multi-page manifesto on Facebook implicating himself in the murders of Quan and Lawrence. 

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," wrote Dorner on his Facebook profile. The former cop blamed the LAPD for his termination, listing people he believed were responsible for his dismissal. 

One of the people on the list included Quan's father, retired LAPD captain Randal Quan. Cpt. Quan had represented Dorner during his dismissal hearing before the police Board of Rights, reports Associated Press.

During a press conference that night, Irvine police Chief David L. Maggard announced a manhunt for Dorner, warning the public that he was armed and dangerous.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Wow, the comments are...refreshing, to say the least:




> My cautionary comment on a related story earlier today suggesting that portly black men might consider staying home today resulted in moderator deletions of most of the replies. This situation is serious. Cops are looking for payback and blacks folks fitting the description of the suspect, most particularly those driving vehicles remotely similar to that of the suspect, are at risk. It was evident from early morning news coverage that law enforcement is in a panic and more trigger happy than usual.


And this is PuffHo, FFS.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Often the police seem like another gang. The scary thing is that their gang has the full force of our legal system behind it. Prosecute bad cops. Good cops should welcome this.


...

----------


## AGRP

> Wow, the comments are...refreshing, to say the least:
> 
> 
> 
> And this is PuffHo, FFS.


I would seriously call in sick if I was portly and brown.  George Foreman and Charles Barkley need to stay home today.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Norwalk Christian School Closed Because Christopher Dorner Mentioned Campus In Manifesto* 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=los-angeles

Administrators at Norwalk Christian School in Norwalk, Calif. decided to close its doors for the rest of the week after learning that Christopher Dorner, an ex-LAPD officer and suspected murderer, had referenced the school in an online manifesto.

Dorner is currently the subject of a statewide manhunt in California because of his suspected involvement in three murders. While authorities said Thursday there was no reason to believe Dorner would return to Norwalk Christian School to attack staff and children, they nevertheless advised the school to close down. 

"There's no reason to believe he's in the area," Norwalk Captain Pat Maxwell told the San Gabriel Valley Tribune. "But he's shooting at armed police so we're taking precautions for school children." 

Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca echoed his sentiment. "Rather than deal with this in a way that's going to cause us regret, we believe it's better to use preventative tools for the sake of the children," he said to the Tribune.

Dorner claims that he experienced racism while attending Norwalk Christian school as a child. In his online manifesto, Dorner said that a child called him a "nig ger" on the playground and that he fought back. Both he and the other child were punished for their actions, but Dorner was galled that he was encourage to turn the other cheek at the racist display.

----------


## coastie

> *Norwalk Christian School Closed Because Christopher Dorner Mentioned Campus In Manifesto* 
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ef=los-angeles
> 
> Administrators at Norwalk Christian School in Norwalk, Calif. decided to close its doors for the rest of the week after learning that Christopher Dorner, an ex-LAPD officer and suspected murderer, had referenced the school in an online manifesto.
> 
> Dorner is currently the subject of a statewide manhunt in California because of his suspected involvement in three murders. While authorities said Thursday there was no reason to believe Dorner would return to Norwalk Christian School to attack staff and children, they nevertheless advised the school to close down. 
> 
> "There's no reason to believe he's in the area," Norwalk Captain Pat Maxwell told the San Gabriel Valley Tribune. "But he's shooting at armed police so we're taking precautions for school children." 
> ...



Oh, I see. You can open fire on anyone or anything, in general, but you got enough decency in you to not do it at a school, lest you may regret hitting a child? How valiant of you.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Wow, I haven't read the longer one, gonna check it out(and download it, I suggest all do the same). Damn, ate the last bag of popcorn, too. I agree, something weird is going on here.


This one line from the Manifesto is a bit shocking. One might ask, what set him off?

From the manifesto:




> After viewing Django Unchained, I was sold.

----------


## coastie

> This one line from the Manifesto is a bit shocking. One might ask, what set him off?
> 
> From the manifesto:



I'm still stuck on his Jon Huntsman vote, and then appraisal of Feinstein and others are doing with an assault weapons ban. WTF? Makes no sense whatsoever. Huntsman was against any AWB, so why would he vote for him?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> And then he praises politicians and media figures that are the polar opposite on that issue, and blames a lack of an assault weapons ban for some of his actions. 
> 
> Que?


He was a CNN/MSNBC fanatic. One might wonder what effect Piers Morgan's recent shows had on him?

----------


## coastie

> He was a CNN/MSNBC fanatic. One might wonder what effect Piers Morgan's recent shows had on him?


One might...

From the manifesto:



> If possible, I want my brain preserved for science/research to study the effects of severe depression on an individual’s brain



Hmm. Kinda like we need to start testing mass shooters as well for genetic links like in Sandy Hook? This is more and more looking like he didn't write this, or it was heavily edited.

----------


## Danke

> I'm still stuck on his Jon Huntsman vote, and then appraisal of Feinstein and others are doing with an assault weapons ban. WTF? Makes no sense whatsoever. Huntsman was against any AWB, so why would he vote for him?


He is not a single issue voter?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Hey, Bob, what the hell is this?
> 
> 
> 
>   Dunno, Jim, never seen it before....wonder if it a reference to something....

----------


## kathy88

Shame I live in a society where I'm afeared to say what I'm thinking right now.

----------


## UWDude

I don't believe the longer version is his writing.  It's when the cussing begins.  Also, why would he censor some of his curse words, but not others?  (He says bull$#@!, but censors fu@$ and ni%$er).  The political statements at the end looks like an amateur add-on hoax to me from some Yahoo.com commentator.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Shame I live in a society where I'm afeared to say what I'm thinking right now.


Thought Crime.

Reported.

----------


## Danke

> Shame I live in a society where I'm afeared to say what I'm thinking right now.


And vice versa.

----------


## coastie

> He is not a single issue voter?


An entirely plausible scenario as well. Touche.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I don't believe the longer version is his writing.  It's when the cussing begins.  Also, why would he censor some of his curse words, but not others?  (He says bull$#@!, but censors fu@$ and ni%$er).  The political statements at the end looks like an amateur add-on hoax to me from some Yahoo.com commentator.


Yeah, I noticed the inconsistent censoring too. But then the longer version also included many references to personal friends. Does that mean it was really him, or is it just to make a hoax seem more real? The manifesto could have been written over a period of time, so inconsistencies might occur due to that. Who knows?

----------


## jmdrake

> Wait a minute...I'm reading this again, and he says his candidate he voted for in 2012 was Jon Huntsman....yeah, this Jon Huntsman :
> 
> 
> And then he praises politicians and media figures that are the polar opposite on that issue, and blames a lack of an assault weapons ban for some of his actions. 
> 
> 
> Que?


Yeah.  He also simultaneously praises George H.W. Bush and Barack Obama.  (Who are actually distant cousins like almost all U.S. presidents).  He gives much love to Hillary Clinton and General Petraus and General Colin Powell, then he hates on NRA president Wayne LaPierre for "not crying over the victims of Sandy Hook".  So wait a minute.  He's declared war on other innocent children, yet LaPierre's the bad guy because he (LaPierre) doesn't agree with the government exploiting the Sandy Hook tragedy for more gun control?  And what's the point of all of this "praise" for establishment hacks, especially since he's trying to be the ultimate anti-establishment type?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Hmmm. The Police have been requesting that longer versions be taken down, due to references to people...




> Police asked a Los Angeles Fox affiliate to remove the manifesto, originally reported to be that of alleged gunman Christopher Dorner, shortly after publishing. The request from police indicates media outlets have been distributing and reporting on a highly edited version of the manifesto. 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczyn...ort-for-gun-co

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

SWAT activated in Las Vegas, crash home.... KTLA video

BEST INTERVIEW: Middle-aged woman, "Thank god they didn't take our guns away, so we can defend ourselves."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/lapd/

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> ...  And what's the point of all of this "praise" for establishment hacks, especially since he's trying to be the ultimate anti-establishment type?


He seems to be a true believer in big government of the MSM variety, but he is just going after what he believes is an isolated pocket of corruption.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I don't believe the longer version is his writing.  It's when the cussing begins.  Also, why would he censor some of his curse words, but not others?  (He says bull$#@!, but censors fu@$ and ni%$er).  The political statements at the end looks like an amateur add-on hoax to me from some Yahoo.com commentator.





> Yeah, I noticed the inconsistent censoring too. But then the longer version also included many references to personal friends. Does that mean it was really him, or is it just to make a hoax seem more real? The manifesto could have been written over a period of time, so inconsistencies might occur due to that. Who knows?





> Hmmm. The Police have been requesting that longer versions be taken down, due to references to people...


Case solved. This link contains the full manifesto, including media and political references. Names of non-public individuals have been censored. This appears to be a version that has "passed the censors".

http://www.myfoxla.com/story/2101885...about-slayings

----------


## VoluntaryAmerican

Just read it... WOW.

This guy really loves journalists. He must be crazy.

----------


## brandon

I read the full version earlier with no names or anything redacted.  I should have saved it... forget where I saw it now

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Chris Dorner, the first American terrorist inspired (indoctrinated?) by CNN:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-CNN-terrorist

----------


## pcosmar

> Just read it... WOW.


Haven't read it,, no real interest..

but from the comments about it here, remember the guy was a cop. (not too bright)

----------


## Philhelm

> Anyone working on the movie trailer yet?  Might give it a shot after work. 
> 
> Deep movie trailer voice:
> 
> "What would YOU do if they took everything from you? "
> 
> "in a corrupt world,  betrayed by his brothers, one man decides to fight back" 
> 
> Starring Xzibit


One man.
One city.
One police force.
Betrayed for taking a stand against L.A. police corruption, one man decides to fight back.
This summer.
The heat is on.
THIN.  BLUE.  LINE.
"The shortest distance between two points is a bullet."

----------


## AGRP

Who needs a movie? We have one right here.  This one might take longer than 2 hours

----------


## John F Kennedy III

Christopher Dorner is an American HERO!

----------


## John F Kennedy III

A great comment a friend of mine made on Fedbook:

 I know that I will probably get put onto some kind of government watch list for this, but I think Christopher Jordan Dorner is a hero. The people who are so outraged by the things he is doing seem to me to be upset because he is doing what we all wish we could; standing up for himself, and making a stand against the corruption that surrounds us every day. While I do not condone killing people, this man has it right. He played the good guy for years and got nowhere, watching as his fellow officers, people who abused our rights, advanced in the ranks around him. Vigilantism is always one of the last routes you should go, but at least he is doing it right. If more people would stand up for what they believe, stand up against out oppressors, stand up against the corruption of our society, our wonderful country would not be in the situation it is today. I believe in your cause Mr. Dorner, just not the method.

----------


## coastie

> Christopher Dorner is an American HERO!



No. The first two people he murdered were innocent. Heroes don't do $#@! like that. I "get" what he's trying to do, but I will not call him a hero.

----------


## squarepusher

> Christopher Dorner is an American HERO!



are you insane?  He killed 2 random innocent people, and an innocent cop so far because he lost his job.

----------


## erowe1

> A great comment a friend of mine made on Fedbook:
> .... While I do not condone killing people, this man has it right....


Ummm.

----------


## dannno

> are you insane?  He killed 2 random innocent people, and an innocent cop so far *because he lost his job*.


lol...

----------


## sailingaway

> No. The first two people he murdered were innocent. Heroes don't do $#@! like that. I "get" what he's trying to do, but I will not call him a hero.


YOu can't kill someone's innocent children to get back at the parents and be considered anything remotely positive, imho.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> No. The first two people he murdered were innocent. Heroes don't do $#@! like that. I "get" what he's trying to do, but *I will not call him a hero*.


Nor will I.

But I understand as well.

And I would be lying if I said the "fallout" has not made me grin once or twice.

----------


## brandon

> Christopher Dorner is an American HERO!


Confirmed retard status.

----------


## brandon

> But I understand as well.



You understand murdering the families of people you worked with because you lost your job?   Can't say I really can relate to that one all too much.

----------


## squarepusher

> Nor will I.
> 
> But I understand as well.
> 
> And I would be lying if I said the "fallout" has not made me grin once or twice.


This is KIND of my viewpoint as well, but seeing the 2 women shot at an almost killed brings it to a more serious light, if him proving his point is LAPD murdering innocent people I would rather him not be proved right.

Also, he could have just gone to the media.  He doesn't need to kill innocent people to get attention, and its the wrong attention that he will be getting (making him the bad guy).  Doesn't help his story or cause.

----------


## coastie

> YOu can't kill someone's innocent children to get back at the parents and be considered anything remotely positive, imho.


Right. But.....


Since when are children still called children at 28 and 27 years old? I don't recall other people being called children when killed at that age, well....ever.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

This should piss many of you off.....

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/02/08/...ce-says-offic/

----------


## phill4paul

> This is KIND of my viewpoint as well, but seeing the 2 women shot at an almost killed brings it to a more serious light, if him proving his point is LAPD murdering innocent people I would rather him not be proved right.
> 
> Also, he could have just gone to the media.  He doesn't need to kill innocent people to get attention, and its the wrong attention that he will be getting (making him the bad guy).  Doesn't help his story or cause.


  How many have gone to the media over racial injustice and/or the treatment of prisoners in the LAPD? Did they change anything? That is not to say that this WILL. I rather doubt it.

----------


## coastie

> This is KIND of my viewpoint as well, but seeing the 2 women shot at an almost killed brings it to a more serious light, if him proving his point is LAPD murdering innocent people I would rather him not be proved right.
> 
> *Also, he could have just gone to the media.*  He doesn't need to kill innocent people to get attention, and its the wrong attention that he will be getting (making him the bad guy).  Doesn't help his story or cause.


Right. Because they totally would've put him all over the 6 pm news with his story....


That doesn't justify his actions, but I'm pretty sure he is well aware of how futile an exercise that would have been.

----------


## dannno

> You understand murdering the families of people you worked with *because you lost your job*?   Can't say I really can relate to that one all too much.


lol..

----------


## brandon

> lol..


Do you actually have anything to add to the conversation or are you just going to keep saying that?

----------


## phill4paul

> YOu can't kill someone's innocent children to get back at the parents and be considered anything remotely positive, imho.


  Innocent adult offspring of an ex-LAPD officer and her adult fiancee. Words and context have meaning.

----------


## dannno

> Do you actually have anything to add to the conversation or are you just going to keep saying that?


I'm laughing at the people who keep saying he is doing this 'because he lost his job'.

----------


## brandon

Well then why did he do it? I read his unedited manifesto in full and the most concrete reason he gave is that he became extremely depressed since being terminated from his job in 2009 and is now taking revenge on the people that he believes caused him to lose his job.

----------


## kathy88

Paid administrative leave for attempted murder. How's it feel to be the ones hunted?

----------


## pcosmar

> No.* The first two people he murdered were innocent.* Heroes don't do $#@! like that. I "get" what he's trying to do, but I will not call him a hero.


At this point I don't know that. They are presented as innocent. The media is pushing that, but the exact circumstances are,,,unknown.
Firing on the group of cops where one was killed,, was self defense.
Remember you are reading the accounts provided by a corrupt Police Dept to a corrupt and complicit media.

And for the record,, I do not call him a hero either.

----------


## coastie

> Innocent adult offspring of an ex-LAPD officer and her adult fiancee. Words and context have meaning.


Exactly. I've heard that, a LOT, actually in re: the first victims. I went to a store earlier, and even our local news had a quick blurb on it, the talking head(paraphrasing):

"After Dorner killed his former co-worker's children...."


WTF? 28 years old is not considered a child! 


Well, I guess I can concede many that age still act like a child....

----------


## TheGrinch

> This is KIND of my viewpoint as well, but seeing the 2 women shot at an almost killed brings it to a more serious light, if him proving his point is LAPD murdering innocent people I would rather him not be proved right.
> 
> Also, he could have just gone to the media.  He doesn't need to kill innocent people to get attention, and its the wrong attention that he will be getting (making him the bad guy).  *Doesn't help his story or cause.*


Sadly, that is actually not true.  For example, I took a course on social movements some time ago, and it was found that the protests that got the most unruly or even violent actually ended up having *far* more favorable stories about the underlying reasons for the protest.

I certainly won't call the guy a hero for for taking it out on innocent people, but there's no doubt that this only stands to bring the heat and exposure on the LAPD.

----------


## sailingaway

> Innocent adult offspring of an ex-LAPD officer and her adult fiancee. Words and context have meaning.


innocent children as in his children and not in any way connected to the shooter's gripe.

----------


## phill4paul

> innocent children as in his children and not in any way connected to the shooter's gripe.



  Yes, I understand. Everyone alive is somebodies "child." But, "children" denotes juveniles. And only one of the two shot was his "child." 
  As far as his manifesto he had a specific gripe that he was not allowed to have a family of his own because of his treatment and that he would take it out on those that were a part of his belief. She was the daughter of the ex-LAPD/turned lawyer that represented him at his disciplinary hearing.

----------


## dannno

> Well then why did he do it? I read his unedited manifesto in full and the most concrete reason he gave is that he became extremely depressed since being terminated from his job in 2009 and is now taking revenge on the people that he believes caused him to lose his job.


Do you think he would have done the same thing if he lost his job at Kroger?

----------


## TheGrinch

> Yes, I understand. But, "children" denotes juveniles. And only one of the two shot was his "child." As far as his manifesto he had a specific gripe that he was not allowed to have a family of his own because of his treatment and that he would take it out on those that were a part of his belief.





> children  plural of child (Noun)
> Noun
> 
>     A young human being below the age of full physical development or below the legal age of majority.
> *A son or daughter of any age*.


So how about let's not get bogged down in semantics... Yes, the use of the word children may be more emotionally laden than "adult offspring" (however it's not like it's uncommon, as it would be to call people's adult children "offspring"), but nonetheless, it was the guy's innocent daughter, who gives a crap how old she was? Does that make it any better?

----------


## coastie

> At this point I don't know that. They are presented as innocent. The media is pushing that, but the exact circumstances are,,,unknown.


*I see what you mean, but at the same time having a hard time believing a basketball coach was involved in something deeper here. The "children" were listed as specific targets.*




> Firing on the group of cops where one was killed,, was self defense.


*I'm not following here, how is that? The cops were not actively engaging him, he just pulled up next to their car and opened fire, as I understand it. I highly doubt I can run down the main road here, shoot a Sheriff's deputy as he drives by me, and claim self defense...and I've had far more terrifying experiences with those $#@!s, than this guy ever did with LAPD*




> Remember you are reading the accounts provided by a corrupt Police Dept to a corrupt and complicit media.


*Oh, believe me, I know. Interesting times, indeed.*

----------


## erowe1

> The cops were not actively engaging him, he just pulled up next to their car and opened fire, as I understand it.


What's the source for this?

----------


## mad cow

> Do you think he would have done the same thing if he lost his job at Kroger?


Google  "Workplace Shooting." Bing has over 7 million links.

----------


## phill4paul

> So how about let's not get bogged down in semantics... Yes, the use of the word children may be more emotionally laden than "adult offspring" (however it's not like it's uncommon, as it would be to call people's adult children "offspring"), but nonetheless, it was the guy's innocent daughter, who gives a crap how old she was? Does that make it any better?


 Words have power.

----------


## erowe1

> Google  "Workplace Shooting." Bing has over 7 million links.


That's kind of weird how language develops like that. Now the verb google can be used for searches at bing.

----------


## erowe1

> Words have power.


Yep.

All these people saying "children" are trying to make it sound like this guy did something wrong.

----------


## sailingaway

> Yes, I understand. Everyone alive is somebodies "child." But, "children" denotes juveniles. And only one of the two shot was his "child." 
>   As far as his manifesto he had a specific gripe that he was not allowed to have a family of his own because of his treatment and that he would take it out on those that were a part of his belief. She was the daughter of the ex-LAPD/turned lawyer that represented him at his disciplinary hearing.


That doesn't remotely change how I feel about it. She was his child and killed only for that reason. she did nothing.

----------


## pcosmar

> *I see what you mean, but at the same time having a hard time believing a basketball coach was involved in something deeper here. The "children" were listed as specific targets.*


Listed by who?
I am not even buying the "Manifesto" at this point. as that could have been floated to discredit anything he may say (should he live)








> *Oh, believe me, I know. Interesting times, indeed.*


Yup,, and that is why I question everything.

----------


## mad cow

> That's kind of weird how language develops like that. Now the verb google can be used for searches at bing.


Kinda like Q-Tip or Band-Aid.

----------


## phill4paul

> Yep.
> 
> All these people saying "children" are trying to make it sound like this guy did something wrong.


  Two headlines....

  "Two children were shot at Hooker Elementary school by unknown gunman."

  " A janitor and a teaching assistant were shot at Hooker Elementary school by unknown gunman."

  While both are technically correct which elicits a deeper emotional response?

----------


## sailingaway

> Two headlines....
> 
>   "Two children were shot at Hooker Elementary school by unknown gunman."
> 
>   " A janitor and a teaching assistant were shot at Hooker Elementary school by unknown gunman."
> 
>   While both are technically correct which elicits a deeper emotional response?


But my emotional response was not because of the age of the victims but that they were killed solely because they were the children of this guy he wanted to get back at.

----------


## rpfocus

> So how about let's not get bogged down in semantics... Yes, the use of the word children may be more emotionally laden than "adult offspring" (however it's not like it's uncommon, as it would be to call people's adult children "offspring"), but nonetheless, it was the guy's innocent daughter, who gives a crap how old she was? Does that make it any better?


Exactly. Any sympathy for this idiot's cause disappeared when he began his murder spree. May a bullet find his large head quickly.

----------


## TheGrinch

> Yep.
> 
> All these people saying "children" are trying to make it sound like this guy did something wrong.

----------


## thoughtomator

What Donner is doing is wrong, what the LAPD is doing is worse - far, far, far, far, far worse.

----------


## phill4paul

> But my emotional response was not because of the age of the victims but that they were killed solely because they were the children of this guy he wanted to get back at.


  Gotcha. I do understand. They were innocent and had nothing to do with how he was treated. But, again, only one was the child of the person he had a gripe with. I only say this because I have seen it on FB. That he shot the children of the ex-officer. The person that was going on about it was unaware that the were adults and that one wasn't even related to him. They thought that he had killed an officers juvenile children. More than one. Both juveniles. This was their belief and I have no idea where they got this from.

----------


## dannno

> Google  "Workplace Shooting." Bing has over 7 million links.


Does his manifesto support him engaging in a workplace shooting?

----------


## sailingaway

> What Donner is doing is wrong, what the LAPD is doing is worse - far, far, far, far, far worse.


I also in no way was suggesting that randomly spraying bullets at trucks was remotely justifiable.

----------


## sailingaway

> Gotcha. I do understand. They were innocent and had nothing to do with how he was treated. But, again, only one was the child of the person he had a gripe with. I only say this because I have seen it on FB. That he shot the children of the ex-officer. The person that was going on about it was unaware that the were adults and that one wasn't even related to him. They thought that he had killed an officers juvenile children. More than one. Both juveniles.


The other was her fiance.  Soon to be his son in law. Again only killed because of his relationship to the daughter of the man he was trying to get back at.

I don't see relevance in her father having been an officer.

----------


## coastie

> What's the source for this?



Hell, I don't remember where exactly I read it, that was so yesterday.

----------


## phill4paul

> The other was her fiance.  Soon to be his son in law. Again only killed because of his relationship to the daughter of the man he was trying to get back at.


  I understand this. I now understand that YOU understand this. If you read of my post above you will see where I have encountered a person that did not know this. I have no idea where they may have gotten this information other than someone told them he had murdered an officers children. 
  But, I get it. You understand. We are on the same page.

----------


## mad cow

> Does his manifesto support him engaging in a workplace shooting?


Yes it does,it makes it seem like that is the ONLY reason for his insane murder spree.In other words, if the LAPD hadn't fired him,nobody would have gotten hurt.Hence it's THEIR fault.

----------


## thoughtomator

> I also in no way was suggesting that randomly spraying bullets at trucks was remotely justifiable.


I understand. If you're wondering why some are rooting for Dorner, it's because the people he is mad at are a clear and present danger to the whole population of the city, whereas he himself is a danger to very few.

"Hero" isn't the right word to use for him, but "anti-hero" fits like a glove. People are rooting for him for the same reasons they root for Batman, Rambo, and Jason Bourne.

----------


## sailingaway

> I understand. If you're wondering why some are rooting for Dorner, it's because the people he is mad at are a clear and present danger to the whole population of the city, whereas he himself is a danger to very few.
> 
> "Hero" isn't the right word to use for him, but "anti-hero" fits like a glove. People are rooting for him for the same reasons they root for Batman, Rambo, and Jason Bourne.


none of those intentionally killed the family of someone to get back at the someone.

To me that takes it way beyond the pale.

I am also disgusted at LAPD but they are not mutually exclusive.

----------


## erowe1

> Hell, I don't remember where exactly I read it, that was so yesterday.


Yeah. I don't know either. I just assume the source is the police.

----------


## thoughtomator

> none of those intentionally killed the family of someone to get back at the someone.


The whole premise of the Bourne story is that he was a political assassin.

----------


## sailingaway

> The whole premise of the Bourne story is that he was a political assassin.


yeah, but you didn't see him shooting the family of people who weren't involved.

I'm remembering that in the Godfather even the mafia didn't do that.  (the book, and I have no clue about real life mafia.)

----------


## thoughtomator

Maybe he learned the "kill the children" trick when he was in the Navy.

----------


## ghengis86

Murder is evil and wrong.  Clearly the killing of the 'children' is evil and wrong.

----------


## dannno

> Yes it does,it makes it seem like that is the ONLY reason for his insane murder spree.In other words, if the LAPD hadn't fired him,nobody would have gotten hurt.Hence it's THEIR fault.


So you're saying you read the entire manifesto and you don't think this has ANYTHING to do with WHY he got fired rather than the simple fact that he was fired?

----------


## Demigod

> Murder is evil and wrong.  Clearly the killing of the 'children' is evil and wrong.


It all depends on the situation.In a normal situation and a normal state of mind YES it is wrong ,in a situation like his where he had his life taken away for doing the right thing NOT so much.From what I read the man has nothing more to live for except his revenge.The LAPD took his life and now he is coming for a pay back .He wants to make them hurt and nothing hurts more than having everything taken away.

----------


## pcosmar

> Murder is evil and wrong.  Clearly the killing of the 'children' is evil and wrong.


True enough.
Has he had a trial yet.? or is he guilty simply because he was accused?

I have no idea,,but reading the thread I am not finding much presumption of innocence.

I could come up with a couple alternate scenarios that would fit.. 
What if he was just the fall guy?

----------


## mad cow

> So you're saying you read the entire manifesto and you don't think this has ANYTHING to do with WHY he got fired rather than the simple fact that he was fired?


I'm in the "if you get fired,don't start murdering people" camp.I really don't care why he was fired.

----------


## sailingaway

> True enough.
> Has he had a trial yet.? or is he guilty simply because he was accused?
> 
> I have no idea,,but reading the thread I am not finding much presumption of innocence.
> 
> I could come up with a couple alternate scenarios that would fit.. 
> What if he was just the fall guy?


I do note that spraying two asian women in a truck with bullets in the belief it was him doesn't indicate much intention to bring him in for trial.  And I do think he should be brought in for trial if possible.

----------


## Demigod

> I'm in the "if you get fired,don't start murdering people" camp.I really don't care why he was fired.


Yes but from what I read it was not that simple as doing it because he was fired.He is doing it because he did everything that was right and all he got back was having his life taken away.

It would be like a veteran soldier witnessing torture of prisoners and then when he reports it he gets dishonorably discharged  and no one gives a **** about him.Every legal path he takes he finds corruption.And at the end of the day he has spent a lot of time doing the right thing and all he has gotten back is having everything taken away.

Some commit suicide,some start a new life,some go berserk.

----------


## pacodever

Apparently LAPD has a long history of mis-identification.  Here is a training video provided to the LAPD by the LASD after an incident in 1987.  Looks like they need to conduct color, gender, race, and vehicle identification training as well.







> We hope this tape has been helpful to you and we encourage you to copy and distribute it throughout your department.  It is our sincere hope that the embarrassing incident initiated by your well-meaning, but lets face it, inept, idiotic, and un-excusably incompetent officers and sergeant never reoccur.

----------


## sailingaway

> Yes but from what I read it was not that simple as doing it because he was fired.He is doing it because he did everything that was right and all he got back was having his life taken away.


It is still not ok to kill people, and PARTICULARLY not people who are merely family of those you hate.

----------


## sailingaway

> Apparently LAPD has a long history of mis-identification.  Here is a training video provided to the LAPD by the LASD after an incident in 1987.  Looks like they need to conduct color, gender, race, and vehicle identification training as well.



Yeah.  I live in LA.  Glad I don't drive a blue truck.

----------


## erowe1

> True enough.
> Has he had a trial yet.? or is he guilty simply because he was accused?
> 
> I have no idea,,but reading the thread I am not finding much presumption of innocence.
> 
> I could come up with a couple alternate scenarios that would fit.. 
> What if he was just the fall guy?


Presumption of innocence is important when the deliberations stand to result in someone getting punished. But not so much when you're shooting the bull.

O. J. is guilty too, btw.

----------


## Demigod

> It is still not ok to kill people, and PARTICULARLY not people who are merely family of those you hate.


It is not about hate it is about payback.Those corrupt left him with nothing now he is going to live them with nothing so they can see how it feels ( at least that is how I understand him ).As I said in a normal state of mind what he is doing is bad,but to be in his shoes and go trough what he has gone trough then you could really decide if he is right on not.

Also that "Family is off limit" is always an excuse for the corrupt and criminals because they would have no problem going after his family if it would have made a difference.

----------


## sailingaway

> It is not about hate it is about payback.Those corrupt left him with nothing now he is going to live them with nothing so they can see how it feels ( at least that is how I understand him ).
> 
> As I said in a normal state of mind what he is doing is bad,but to be in his shoes and go trough what he has gone trough then you could really decide if he is right on not.



No, I don't see any justification for paying BACK  by killing a third party.

----------


## pcosmar

> I do note that spraying two asian women in a truck with bullets in the belief it was him doesn't indicate much intention to bring him in for trial.  And I do think he should be brought in for trial if possible.


They were Asian? The names sounded Latino.

oh,, and there was a second incident too. (maybe more,,unreported)
I have no reason not to believe that the first cops (where one was killed) were a hit team that failed.

Perhaps the "children" were killed in some other way than reported.

----------


## sailingaway

> They were Asian? The names sounded Latino.
> 
> oh,, and there was a second incident too. (maybe more,,unreported)
> I have no reason not to believe that the first cops (where one was killed) were a hit team that failed.
> 
> Perhaps the "children" were killed in some other way than reported.


I was going from early reports which said they were Asian.  

I definitely think due process should be followed.

----------


## Demigod

> No, I don't see any justification for paying BACK  by killing a third party.


I hope you never get that justification but it exists and I think I understand his motives whether he is right is not for me to judge.And family is hardly third party,some random guy on the street that has no connection is third party.

----------


## coastie

> I was going from early reports which said they were Asian.  
> 
> I definitely think due process should be followed.


They were Latino....

----------


## sailingaway

> I hope you never get that justification but it exists and I think I understand his motives whether he is right is not for me to judge.And family is hardly third party,some random guy on the street that has no connection is third party.


daughter and her fiance are third party and I don't see any justification possible.

----------


## libertyjam

> Apparently LAPD has a long history of mis-identification.  Here is a training video provided to the LAPD by the LASD after an incident in 1987.  Looks like they need to conduct color, gender, race, and vehicle identification training as well.


wow, what an amazing smack/slap upside the head that video is to the PD, all in training format too!

----------


## thoughtomator

> No, I don't see any justification for paying BACK  by killing a third party.


What I'm seeing is that he considers the families to be part of the corruption - they certainly benefit from it. He mentioned the special license plate frames that go to families of cops. We all know that cops' families are treated as a higher class of citizens by cops than your average mundane, and I'm guessing that that is at least part of his rationale.

----------


## sailingaway

> They were Latino....


OK, early reports said Asian. In any event, they weren't a big black dude, and even if they were, they clearly didn't try to take him without shooting.

----------


## sailingaway

> What I'm seeing is that he considers the families to be part of the corruption - they certainly benefit from it. He mentioned the special license plate frames that go to families of cops. We all know that cops' families are treated as a higher class of citizens by cops than your average mundane, and I'm guessing that that is at least part of his rationale.


so what?  he feels bad.... he sees demons.... he thinks all the world is part of it.... so he shoots everyone.

I'm not talking about whether he should get a mitigated sentence for not being able to tell right from wrong, that is not my job to determine. But this is wrong.

----------


## pcosmar

> OK, early reports said Asian. In any event, they weren't a big black dude, and even if they were, they clearly didn't try to take him without shooting.


And the truck was not Dark Blue or a Nissan.

It was a light blue Toyota.

----------


## thoughtomator

not disputing that, just trying to find a rational explanation of events

----------


## Demigod

> What I'm seeing is that he considers the families to be part of the corruption - they certainly benefit from it. He mentioned the special license plate frames that go to families of cops. We all know that cops' families are treated as a higher class of citizens by cops than your average mundane, and I'm guessing that that is at least part of his rationale.


As I understand from what I read it has nothing to do with them benefiting from the corruption.In my opinion his thinking is the fallowing :

He had a life,he did his job,one day he saw something wrong ( kicking a mental patient ) he reported it and in return got fired,then he spent a lot of time fighting in every legal way  finding only closed doors and  corruption everywhere.At the end of the day he had no job and no life and all because he did everything right.They took his life now he is going to take theirs.

So he went after the family of the guy he saw most to blame so he can see how it is to loose everything and having nothing left to live for.

And families are not off limits.

----------


## pcosmar

> not disputing that, just trying to find a rational explanation of events


Not sure there is one.
And not sure that the information reported is anywhere near the truth.
These are police after all.

----------


## Expatriate

> What I'm seeing is that he considers the families to be part of the corruption - they certainly benefit from it. He mentioned the special license plate frames that go to families of cops. We all know that cops' families are treated as a higher class of citizens by cops than your average mundane, and I'm guessing that that is at least part of his rationale.


I didn't see the thing about the license plates, that's interesting.

I wonder if that police coin/token that he sent in riddled with holes was supposed to be used as one of these: 
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ail+free+cards

----------


## tod evans

> It is still not ok to kill people, and PARTICULARLY not people who are merely family of those you hate.


Have you seen this thread?

There are several prime examples of cops attacking family members and even strangers for alleged transgressions..

I am not making excuses for this guys behavior, but it's obvious to me that he's just following the protocols he was taught...

----------


## thoughtomator

> I didn't see the thing about the license plates, that's interesting.


In the "manifesto" Dorner wrote:



> KMA-367 license plate frames are great target indicators and make target selection even easier.


That's the "family of cops" license plate frame.

----------


## pcosmar

> In the "manifesto" Dorner wrote:


Has there been an independent handwriting analysis done?

I hadn't heard.

----------


## sailingaway

> Have you seen this thread?
> 
> There are several prime examples of cops attacking family members and even strangers for alleged transgressions..
> 
> I am not making excuses for this guys behavior, but it's obvious to me that he's just following the protocols he was taught...



I would say the same about those instances. It is a revolting behavior. The families have nothing to do with protocols he was taught, either.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

This reminds me of Rambo...

----------


## thoughtomator

> Has there been an independent handwriting analysis done?
> 
> I hadn't heard.


It was posted to Facebook, reportedly, not written by hand.

----------


## sailingaway

> This reminds me of Rambo...


because STallone, as well as this shooter are big pro-Obama pro-gun control types?

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

> because STallone, as well as this shooter are big pro-Obama pro-gun control types?


more like.. some guy eluding cops and probably going to kill some more cops in the forest or town or watever.

----------


## tod evans

> I would say the same about those instances. It is a revolting behavior. The families have nothing to do with protocols he was taught, either.


Revolting it may be but as society crumbles I expect to see more of it...

Look at what "government" is doing with their military style raids and new laws passed on a daily basis.....It's obvious to me they expect something more than status-quo.....

There's quite a difference between the civil unrest of the '60's and now.....At least there is from what I observe..

----------


## pcosmar

> It was posted to Facebook, reportedly, not written by hand.





 that is evidence?

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> This reminds me of Rambo...




Trautman: It's good to hear your voice Johnny, it's been a long time. Look John, you've done some damage here, they don't want anymore trouble. That's why I've come. I want to come in there and fly you the hell out. Just you and me. We'll work this thing out together. Is that fair enough? 

Rambo: Where did you come from Sir? 

Trautman: Bragg. 

Rambo: I tried to get in touch with you, but the guys in Bragg never knew where to find you. 

Trautman: You know I haven't been spending much time there lately, they've got me down in D.C. I'm shining a seat with my ass. 

Rambo: I wish I was back in Bragg now. 

Trautman: We'll talk about that when you come in. 

Rambo: I can't do that Sir. 

Trautman: Look John, we can't have you running around out there killing friendly civilians. 

Rambo: There are no friendly civilians! 

Trautman: But I'm your friend Johnny! I was there with you knee-deep in all that blood and guts. I covered your ass more than once. Seems like baling you out of trouble's got to be a life-time achievement for me. 

Rambo: There wouldn't be no trouble except for that king-$#@! cop! All I wanted was something to eat. But the man kept pushing Sir. 

Trautman: Well you did some pushing on your own John. 

Rambo: They drew first blood, not me. 

Trautman: Look Johnny, let me come in and get you the hell out of there! 

Rambo: They drew first blood... 

Trautman: Rambo, are you still reading me? Covey leader to Raven! Rambo! Acknowledge! 
Share this quote

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> that is evidence?


It's pretty much established that he wrote the manifesto. He describes his grievances, his military life, and has goodbye letters to all of his close friends. Most of which have been contacted and expressed that they want him to do the right thing and turn himself in. You aren't ever going to get a from his mouth 'admission' that he wrote the manifesto. (As they obviously aren't going to take him alive) If you want to dismiss it solely because of that then that is your prerogative. (Not everything is a conspiracy- I'm sure you know what I mean.)

----------


## phill4paul



----------


## aGameOfThrones

> 



To police every dog is a pit bull, now every pickup is a Nissan.

----------


## sailingaway

it's not even blue.

----------


## pcosmar

> It's pretty much established that he wrote the manifesto.


Established by who?
Cops?
Boot licking Media?

How do you know that wasn't just produced to discredit his claims of corruption.

For that matter how do you KNOW he killed the first victims. Because the cops said so?

They $#@!ing lie.. all day long and under oath. It's what they do.

----------


## sailingaway

Well, you do bring a point that facebook posts could be written by anyone who can get his password or hack it.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

> Established by who?
> Cops?
> Boot licking Media?
> 
> How do you know that wasn't just produced to discredit his claims of corruption.
> 
> For that matter how do you KNOW he killed the first victims. Because the cops said so?
> 
> They $#@!ing lie.. all day long and under oath. It's what they do.


Media + cops vs you = you lose.

----------


## thoughtomator

Up to the point of the political ranting it seems pretty genuine based on content and that supporting documentation can be found elsewhere. All the political/celebrity stuff may have been tacked on at the end.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Established by who?
> Cops?
> Boot licking Media?
> 
> *How do you know that wasn't just produced to discredit his claims of corruption.*
> 
> For that matter how do you KNOW he killed the first victims. Because the cops said so?
> 
> They $#@!ing lie.. all day long and under oath. It's what they do.


The manifesto supports his claims of corruption. It lists people to contact and records to request via the FOIA. I don't know he killed anyone. His manifesto which listed the ex-sergeant turned lawyer and stated family was fair game leads me to assume he did. Oh, and I know the cops lie. That is precisely why they have hellfire reaching up and touching their families and fellow pigs. Hopefully every cop in L.A. (or the country for that matter) realizes what could happen should they continually $#@! with someone. (Abuse their power) Not everyone lives by the code that family is off limits and not everyone will just take the shaft and lay down quietly. Can't say I wasn't happy to see a cop turn into Larry Davis. (The irony) I wouldn't go so far as to call him a hero, though. Just someone who had enough.

----------


## dannno

The notorious "x-girlfriend" shows up.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...disturbed.html




> Dorner manhunt: Ex-girlfriend called him "emotionally disturbed"
> 
>  Ariana Williams' claims are part of the documents in a *restraining order that Dorner was seeking.*
> 
> The former LAPD officer said in the restraining order request that Williams annoyed and harassed him by phone and in a letter. The restraining order was ultimately denied.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> it's not even blue.


I give them credit that it was even a truck. It's gotta be pretty hectic when someone is coming for your head.

----------


## sailingaway

> I give them credit that it was even a truck. It's gotta be pretty hectic when someone is coming for your head.


Kinda looks like they were the ones going after.

I'm starting to believe in gun control - of police guns.  It's like they have unlimited license to kill. What do you think those who killed the two women will get? Suspension with pay while there is an investigation?

----------


## phill4paul

> Kinda looks like they were the ones going after.
> 
> I'm starting to believe in gun control - of police guns.


  They've lost their $#@!. If they even had any to begin with. But, odds on, the cops will skate in the long run and the taxpayers will pay the price.

----------


## pcosmar

> The manifesto supports his claims of corruption. It lists people to contact and records to request via the FOIA..


All things that could be known to a Ghost writer.
If it was to discredit any other information or documentation he may has,,on the odd chance of him surviving and getting to an independent media.

----------


## phill4paul

Makes me wonder if any of the vehicle occupants that were rammed and fired on came out guns blazing for self protection would have made the news like it did or if it would have just been spun as a separate incident entirely. No. I KNOW how it would have been handled.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Rambo: There wouldn't be no trouble except for that king-$#@! cop! All I wanted was something to eat. But the man kept pushing Sir. 

Trautman: Well you did some pushing on your own John. 

*Rambo: They drew first blood, not me.*

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Yes it does,it makes it seem like that is the ONLY reason for his insane murder spree.In other words, if the LAPD hadn't fired him,nobody would have gotten hurt.Hence it's THEIR fault.


When the LAPD fires you for ratting they don't just fire you. They will actively work to destroy your life and your future. Like mobsters but with the pretense of legitimacy behind the Thin Blue Wall.

This is incomparable to a job at Kroger or the Postal Service.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Kinda looks like they were the ones going after.
> 
> I'm starting to believe in gun control - of police guns.  It's like they have unlimited license to kill. What do you think those who killed the two women will get? Suspension with pay while there is an investigation?


A transfer and a promotion.  It's traditional in gvmt.

-t

----------


## phill4paul

> Kinda looks like they were the ones going after.
> 
> I'm starting to believe in gun control - of police guns.  It's like they have unlimited license to kill. What do you think those who killed the two women will get? Suspension with pay while there is an investigation?


  They did not kill the two women. One was treated and the other is in I.C.U.

----------


## pcosmar

> Makes me wonder if any of the vehicle occupants that were rammed and fired on came out guns blazing for self protection would have made the news like it did or if it would have just been spun as a separate incident entirely. No. I KNOW how it would have been handled.


Accomplices,, they would manufacture some half assed connection.

----------


## phill4paul

This is gonna be an interesting study. This guy is running them all over the place. He had some plan. He is obviously not using any credit or debit cards or ez-pass or anything to give away his location. How interesting would it be for him to have gotten several credit cards/gift cards in his name and passed them out to some random bums in different localities to throw them off?

----------


## phill4paul

> Accomplices,, they would manufacture some half assed connection.


  Or just throw down some drugs and make it entirely unconnected.

----------


## sailingaway

> They did not kill the two women. One was treated and the other is in I.C.U.


LOL!  I couldn't help it, I burst out laughing...

I am relieved, of course. However, 38 bullets at fish in a barrel and they are both alive?

Great marksmanship.

----------


## phill4paul

> LOL!  I couldn't help it, I burst out laughing...
> 
> I am relieved, of course. However, 38 bullets at fish in a barrel and they are both alive?
> 
> Great marksmanship.


  Either that or I need to trade in my Chevy for a Toyota.

  And yes, the SIX officers involved are on administrative leave.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

> LOL!  I couldn't help it, I burst out laughing...
> 
> I am relieved, of course. However, 38 bullets at fish in a barrel and they are both alive?
> 
> Great marksmanship.


just think of all the stray  bullets flying everywhere and bullets going through windows and going off into oblivion.

----------


## sailingaway

> just think of all the stray  bullets flying everywhere and bullets going through windows and going off into oblivion.


There isn't too much oblivion in Los Angeles, most of it is covered with people.

----------


## Stallheim

Were two cars rammed and shot up following the murders? Has anyone died in these vehicle incidents?

----------


## phill4paul

> Were two cars rammed and shot up following the murders? Has anyone died in these vehicle incidents?


  Yes. Two trucks, neither of the same make or color of Dohner's, were. Shots were fired in both instances. One with no injuries. The other two were shot after at least two dozen rounds fired. One treated and released one in I.C.U.

----------


## TheTexan

> It was posted to Facebook, reportedly, not written by hand.



Every source of the manifesto ive found has passed through cops

----------


## AuH20

These "psychologists" on CNN are cracking me up. Yes, turn himself in, so the cops can put a bullet in his head...

----------


## sailingaway

> These "psychologists" on CNN are cracking me up. Yes, turn himself in, so the cops can put a bullet in his head...


how does he even turn himself in? He drives towards a station and.... well you saw what happened to those other trucks.

----------


## torchbearer

> how does he even turn himself in? He drives towards a station and.... well you saw what happened to those other trucks.



yup

----------


## TheTexan

> It's pretty much established that he wrote the manifesto. He describes his grievances, his military life, and has goodbye letters to all of his close friends. Most of which have been contacted and expressed that they want him to do the right thing and turn himself in. You aren't ever going to get a from his mouth 'admission' that he wrote the manifesto. (As they obviously aren't going to take him alive) If you want to dismiss it solely because of that then that is your prerogative. (Not everything is a conspiracy- I'm sure you know what I mean.)


Until I see a copy of the manifesto that the cops didn't have an opportunity to edit before sending out, I don't trust it in its entirety.  Most of it is probably true and accurate.  But it would be very easy for the cops to have added the few portions about targeting family members, for example.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on that point for now.  As for the daughter of the police chief that he allegedly killed, the police chief retired in 2002.  Dorner joined the police in 2002.  He didn't know the police chief very well, if at all, hardly long enough to develop a grudge?  There would be far more relevant people to target I think?  

But I do not know his motives.  It may all be true.  But, again, the only copies I've seen have been passed through the hands of the LAPD before being released, so it would be kind of silly to accept everything as fact at this point I think.

Unless you know of a 3rd party source that can verify the integrity of the document?

----------


## ~River~

> Either that or I need to trade in my Chevy for a Toyota.
> 
>   And yes, the SIX officers involved are on administrative leave.


If it was anyone but a couple of cops who riddled a truck full of bullets, without cause , they would be sitting in a cell...not on paid admin leave...

I am willing to bet, the investigation will either end with a slap on the wrist...or they will find a way to pin it to one officer who called the shots (pun intended) at the scene giving the rest a slap on the wrist.

----------


## Carson

A radio station played this song early this morning. 

Sly and the Family Stone - Stand! 



Followed by this one.


The Wallflowers - Love is a Country (Lyric Video) 




Somewhere in there brought a tear to my eye.

----------


## TheTexan

> Well, you do bring a point that facebook posts could be written by anyone who can get his password or hack it.


The article linked earlier that said it was posted to facebook could have been mistaken.  I haven't seen any other evidence that suggests it was a facebook post.  Even if it was a facebook post, it was long ago deleted...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Every source of the manifesto ive found has passed through cops


It would not surprise me one bit to find out the gun regulations parts have been added.

----------


## GuerrillaXXI

> I don't believe the media censored his manifesto, I think someone is adding to his manifesto to smear him.  He has a .50 cal.  I don't think he is in favor of gun control.


Bingo. His original manifesto said nothing about gun control, and there is no reason to think that someone like him -- who has a .50 cal and has used some kind of "assault weapon" against the cops -- would not want others to have the ability to wage asymmetrical warfare just as he is doing.

I think someone has modified his manifesto in order to prevent the pro-gun crowd from seeing him as a hero and role model.

----------


## Carson

> Well, you do bring a point that facebook posts could be written by anyone who can get his password or hack it.


Or someone just set one up an account in someone else's name. Or Facebook could do it like you might label a dossier to have a place to store and file information.

Once I saw a link to a Facebook page with my name. I've never knowingly set one up so I didn't have anyway to see what was there or if it was just some sort of come-on to get me to sign up.

Some pieces of the little bit I've read here that says it is from him ring true. Then again so much seems choreographed and set up now-a-days.


P.S. I don't mean any insult by adding the definitions of words from time to time. I do it because I've had to look the words up myself to see what I'm saying for sure. I'm not always sure where I'm pulling what I say from.

----------


## phill4paul

> As for the daughter of the police chief that he allegedly killed, the police chief retired in 2002.  Dorner joined the police in 2002.  He didn't know the police chief very well, if at all, hardly long enough to develop a grudge?  There would be far more relevant people to target I think?


  The police chief (Captain's rank) became a lawyer and represented Dohner at his disciplinary hearing in which he was fired. He blamed him for not suppressing and/or introducing evidence that would have proven Dohner correct.

----------


## phill4paul

> If it was anyone but a couple of cops who riddled a truck full of bullets, without cause , they would be sitting in a cell...not on paid admin leave...
> 
> I am willing to bet, the investigation will either end with a slap on the wrist...or they will find a way to pin it to one officer who called the shots (pun intended) at the scene giving the rest a slap on the wrist.


  The officers will skate, the one calling the shots will be given a promotion and the citizens will pay for a huge lawsuit. The sun will rise and set again in L.A.

----------


## TheTexan

I'm trying to corroborate the claim that it was posted on Facebook, and this article is the best I can find...

http://diamondbar-walnut.patch.com/a...-irvine-couple




> Dorner posted online what Maggard referred to as a manifesto on Monday lashing out at Quan’s father, Randy Quan, as well as other LAPD union representatives, *the chief said* during the press conference.  Randy Quan represented Dorner during a LAPD board of rights hearing after which Dorner was fired, Maggard said. The LAPD's elite Metropolitan squad was sent to protect others mentioned in Dorner's manifesto.
> 
> *Authorities declined to release the letter*, which has subsequently been removed from the site where the suspect posted it.


Basically, it was posted to Facebook because the police say it was posted to Facebook.

And the fact that they initially declined to release it, certainly implies noone saw it, even if it was posted to Facebook

----------


## GuerrillaXXI

Some additional thoughts on this Christopher Dorner guy and what he's doing:

1. The parts of his "manifesto" that support gun control, Dianne Feinstein, etc., are almost certainly forgeries/insertions.

2. If he killed that young woman and her fiance solely because she was the daughter of that LAPD cop, then I cannot support that. I can't support the killing or targeting of people just because they're related to scum. Other than that, I applaud Dorner. He is doing what countless other victims of police brutality and corruption had the right to do but were unable or too afraid.

3. For those who disapprove of ALL killing, be advised that you cannot have freedom unless you're willing to kill (and risk your own death) for it. Those who are willing and able to use force _always_ have absolute power over those who are unwilling and unable to do so. Always.

4. Look at how much trouble and expense this ONE man is causing the government. If gun confiscation or any other sort of tyranny pushes Americans to the point of revolution, we will see many thousands or even millions of people doing what Dorner is doing simultaneously. This possibility is why the Second Amendment remains relevant. Everyone should take note of Dorner's methods.

5. The fact that Dorner is willing to die in order to get revenge (as he has said himself) is his most dangerous weapon. However, he is not throwing his life away, but trying to take out as many of his enemies as possible before they get him (see my signature). My guess is he currently plans to lie low until the heat dies down, after which he can then start picking off LAPD pigs again. If he is cornered prior to that, he will probably go out in a blaze of glory.

----------


## Anti Federalist

+rep especially #4

----------


## pcosmar

> Some additional thoughts on this Christopher Dorner guy and what he's doing:
> .


Some good thoughts. but mine are in another direction. One I don't see enough of.
*
Presumption of Innocence.*

The individual is always presumed innocent. It is integral in our Constitution and law.
The State and it's enforcers is never to be presumed innocent.. and there is ample historical evidence for this.

somehow this has gotten backwards,, even here on this forum.

----------


## GuerrillaXXI

> Some good thoughts. but mine are in another direction. One I don't see enough of.
> *
> Presumption of Innocence.*
> 
> The individual is always presumed innocent. It is integral in our Constitution and law.
> The State and it's enforcers is never to be presumed innocent.. and there is ample historical evidence for this.
> 
> somehow this has gotten backwards,, even here on this forum.


I don't see a problem with presuming guilt solely for the sake of discussion. That's all that people are really doing on this board.

Of course, if I were on a jury and Dorner were the defendant, I would never convict him of anything without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. (Hell, if he were on trial only for killing LA pigs, I'd acquit him even WITH proof of his guilt.)

----------


## Philhelm

> 4. Look at how much trouble and expense this ONE man is causing the government. If gun confiscation or any other sort of tyranny pushes Americans to the point of revolution, we will see many thousands or even millions of people doing what Dorner is doing simultaneously. This possibility is why the Second Amendment remains relevant. Everyone should take note of Dorner's methods.


I agree that his cause was tarnished by allegedly murdering the daughter and her fiancé.  However, I do want to see how far _One Man_ (deep movie voice) can go as it may become extremely relevant one day.

----------


## pcosmar

> I don't see a problem with presuming guilt solely for the sake of discussion. That's all that people are really doing on this board.
> 
> Of course, if I were on a jury and Dorner were the defendant, I would never convict him of anything without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. (Hell, if he were on trial only for killing LA pigs, I'd acquit him even WITH proof of his guilt.)


I prefer it, even for discussion.
I am, for the sake of discussion, assuming that the State/Police are the guilty party. Perhaps the sole voice.
If he was set up for the murder,, or if they were killed during an attempt on *his* life. Then he would be completely justified in self defense.

And yet,, on an allegation (as yet unproven) the entire LAPD is in full warfare mode. Not interested in trial or the Rule of Law, They are shooting up innocents in an attempt to deny him a trial and execute him.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I agree that his cause was tarnished by allegedly murdering the daughter and her fiancé.  However, I do want to see how far _One Man_ (deep movie voice) can go as it may become *is* extremely relevant one day *today*.


FTFY

----------


## AGRP

> Some good thoughts. but mine are in another direction. One I don't see enough of.
> *
> Presumption of Innocence.*
> 
> The individual is always presumed innocent. It is integral in our Constitution and law.
> The State and it's enforcers is never to be presumed innocent.. and there is ample historical evidence for this.
> 
> somehow this has gotten backwards,, even here on this forum.


Who cares? Grab some popcorn. Any new developments?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I prefer it, even for discussion.
> I am, for the sake of discussion, assuming that the State/Police are the guilty party. Perhaps the sole voice.
> If he was set up for the murder,, or if they were killed during an attempt on *his* life. Then he would be completely justified in self defense.
> 
> And yet,, on an allegation (as yet unproven) the entire LAPD is in full warfare mode. Not interested in trial or the Rule of Law, They are shooting up innocents in an attempt to deny him a trial and execute him.


A valid point, but I honestly think the LAPD would be in full war mode, regardless of whether this man did what they are saying he did or not.

Most low level cops probably don't give a $#@! one way or the other.

They have gone to the mattresses, and their attitude is, "if a few, or a whole $#@!-ton, of Mundanes get shot to $#@! in the bargain, oh well, tough $#@!, Combat Quals, Circular Force Continuum and *$#@! YOU!*"

----------


## phill4paul

> Who cares? Grab some popcorn. Any new developments?


  No. I am sure he may be fine watching them hut-hut for a bit before he resurfaces. He has certainly exposed them a trigger happy thugs and the longer they are in a state of "Blue Alert" the more they expose themselves.

----------


## Philhelm

> FTFY


Touché!

I was hoping to get placed further down on The List by speaking in code.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Just to keep all this in perspective:



Line of Duty Deaths in 2012: 126
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 1
Automobile accident: 25
Duty related illness: 4
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 47
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 5
Stabbed: 5
Struck by vehicle: 6
Training accident: 2
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 11

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2012#ixzz2KMw4g5OL

This year compared to last?

9 total as of 8 Feb.

*Down 55% compared to this time last year.*

----------


## phill4paul

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2644294.html




> BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. — Property records show that the mother of a former Los Angeles police officer who's the target of a manhunt on a Southern California mountain owns a parcel of land there.
> 
> San Bernardino County records show the 2-acre undeveloped parcel, about 35 miles west of Big Bear Lake, is under the name of Christopher Dorner's mother, Nancy.
> 
> County sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Bachman says authorities are aware of the land and have visited it several times.
> 
> She says there's been no sign of Dorner in the area.


 


> As authorities weathered heavy snow and freezing temperatures in the mountains, *thousands of heavily armed police remained on the lookout throughout California, Nevada, Arizona and northern Mexico.*


 


> Some law enforcement officials said he appeared to be everywhere and nowhere, and speculated that he was trying to spread out their resources.

----------


## sailingaway

In other words they are clueless as to his location and will shoot every truck they see in the meantime.

----------


## TheTexan

Nothing new in this news post, just a data point WRT the origin of the manifesto.  This news post is pre-manifesto

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/0...gunshot-wounds

As of Wednesday 7:19pm PST the police apparently had not seen the manifesto, and did not know it was Dorner who (allegedly) killed the couple

----------


## devil21

Feinstein and Boxer ask Cali residents to be easier targets for this guy.  Give up your weapons please.

http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/

Anybody else think the shooter looks like LL Cool J if he stopped working out?

----------


## AuH20

Did you hear about the guy they dragged out of a gym on a tip????????? It was a wrong guy though.

----------


## shane77m

> Feinstein and Boxer ask Cali residents to be easier targets for this guy.  Give up your weapons please.
> 
> http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/
> 
> *Anybody else think the shooter looks like LL Cool J* if he stopped working out?



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4862841

----------


## AuH20

Do these cops have any brains?? I'm sure Dormer went to do the local gym to conduct some reps...LOL

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...190399431.html

----------


## AGRP

With the resources going toward this, california could be experiencing the greatest amount of freedom theyve had in decades.

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

so I was reading on the radioreference site that one of the channels they were broadcasting last night included tactical commentary such as longitude and latitude of search teams/dogs.  broadcasting your local to the enemy is always a good idea, right?

----------


## sailingaway

so long as you aren't in a truck..

----------


## P3ter_Griffin

> Do these cops have any brains?? I'm sure Dormer went to do the local gym to conduct some reps...LOL
> 
> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...190399431.html






> The man at the focus of the tip had been working out at the gym when an *off-duty officer* called in the lead according to one 24 Hour Fitness employee.
> 
> The misidentified man was in the locker room when he was approached by federal agents and police officers and was “not compliant” according to Lt. Joseph Ramos.
> 
> Officers eventually cuffed the unidentified man and drove him away in the back of a patrol car.
> 
> “It would have been a much easier situation if he had just identified himself,” Ramos said.
> 
> “Everyone is a bit on edge and we are going to be *asking anyone who may appear to be Mr. Dorner for their identification*. Obviously we’ll do it as politely as we can. We’re just asking for everyone’s patience on all sides,” he said.


LOL.  I doubt searching all large black males (and shooting everyone else) is going to go over well.

----------


## devil21

Does Cali have a stop and identify law?  If not, then they can't just go up to anyone that "fits the description" and demand ID.

----------


## sailingaway

> Does Cali have a stop and identify law?  If not, then they can't just go up to anyone that "fits the description" and demand ID.


Maybe that is why they are just shooting trucks instead?

But if they have a description and suspect they can use that.

----------


## TheTexan

I've spent quite a few hours searching, I can't find any evidence that there actually was a facebook post.  With something like this, someone, SOMEONE would have hit their little print screen button and shared it with their friends.

I've exhausted my search skills, and I can only conclude that either there was no facebook post, or the Farcebook Eye of Mordor instantly took down the post as soon as it went up.

----------


## AGRP

> Do these cops have any brains?? I'm sure Dormer went to do the local gym to conduct some reps...LOL
> 
> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...190399431.html
> 
> San Diego police said they have received dozens of calls Friday reporting Dorner sightings. They are urging their officers to use common sense.
> 
> SDPD also asks the public to be calm and use common sense before calling in a Dorner sighting.


Sounds like the worst thing you can do at this time if you live in cal is to call the police for anyone or thing that resembles Doner.  It wastes their valuable time and resources.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I've spent quite a few hours searching, I can't find any evidence that there actually was a facebook post.  With something like this, someone, SOMEONE would have hit their little print screen button and shared it with their friends.
> 
> I've exhausted my search skills, and I can only conclude that either there was no facebook post, or the Farcebook Eye of Mordor instantly took down the post as soon as it went up.


I trust *nothing* having to do with FedBook, so WTF knows at this point...

???

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Sounds like the worst thing you can do at this time if you live in cal is to call the police for anyone or thing that resembles Doner.  It wastes their valuable time and resources.


Yes, that is a horrible idea.

----------


## pcosmar

> Does Cali have a stop and identify law?  If not, *then they can't just go up to anyone that* "fits the description" and demand ID.


Can't?
They can shoot up unarmed women and the whole neighborhood..

what do you mean "Can't"?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Sounds like the worst thing you can do at this time if you live in cal is to call the police for anyone or thing that resembles Doner.  It wastes their valuable time and resources.


and risk getting your home, cars and dog shot up...

-t

----------


## AGRP

> Yes, that is a horrible idea.


Hopefully groups like anonymous or 4chan dont get word of it and start making calls.  Seems like they would do horrible things like that.

----------


## devil21

> Can't?
> They can shoot up unarmed women and the whole neighborhood..
> 
> what do you mean "Can't"?


And they will pay heavily for that.  They're still subject to the law until martial law is declared in that state.  Whether they ignore it and open themselves up to more hate and lawsuits is on them.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Hopefully groups like anonymous or 4chan dont get word of it and start making calls.  Seems like they would do horrible things like that.


That would be awful if the /b/tards started something like that.

Anybody who posts there ought to sternly warn them not to.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And they will pay heavily for that.  They're still subject to the law until martial law is declared in that state.  Whether they ignore it and open themselves up to more hate and lawsuits is on them.


No cop or supervising "officer" will pay a dime.

The people sure as hell will though.

The "hate" is mutual, and they could not care less about that.

----------


## devil21

> No cop or supervising "officer" will pay a dime.
> 
> The people sure as hell will though.
> 
> The "hate" is mutual, and they could not care less about that.


I may be dreaming here but forget the money, I want those trigger happy cops to pay with their freedom.

----------


## GuerrillaXXI

> Feinstein and Boxer ask Cali residents to be easier targets for this guy.  Give up your weapons please.
> 
> http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...ewide-manhunt/


Not that CA residents should give up their weapons for any reason, but Dorner isn't out to get ordinary people.




> I may be dreaming here but forget the money, I want those trigger happy cops to pay with their freedom.


In today's America police almost never pay with either money or freedom for abusing the rights of citizens. Generally speaking, they only pay when citizens take the law into their own hands and make them pay.

This why Dorner is doing what he's doing. Others have taken a similar course in the past. One example is Christopher Monfort, who killed at least one Seattle pig in retaliation for that department's brutality and corruption.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Not that CA residents should give up their weapons for any reason, but Dorner isn't out to get ordinary people.
> 
> In today's America police almost never pay with either money or freedom for abusing the rights of citizens. Generally speaking, they only pay when citizens take the law into their own hands and make them pay.
> 
> This why Dorner is doing what he's doing. Others have taken a similar course in the past. One example is Christopher Monfort, who killed at least one Seattle pig in retaliation for that department's brutality and corruption.


Don't forget Frank 'Two-gun' Crowley and Larry Davis. Good reads if you've never heard of them before. (I doubt anyone's ever heard of Frank Crowley but he was who the movie "White Heat" with James Cagney was based on)

----------


## Carson

> Does Cali have a stop and identify law?  If not, then they can't just go up to anyone that "fits the description" and demand ID.


I've lived with it when they could. 

I think if an officer felt the honest need, I wouldn't mind if they ask. Then again there's been times when it really upset me. I suppose that is a two way street. I think the police and I have both had times when being upset with each other is justified. It kind of goes with the territory.

I think it's a hard enough. Sometimes giving a little can go a long way to helping them do their jobs. The situation can be reversed. Sharing names is a common courtesy. Isn't' it?

Even though times are changing and I see people refusing it still seems counterproductive in the big scope of things.

----------


## bolil

> Not that CA residents should give up their weapons for any reason, but Dorner isn't out to get ordinary people.
> 
> In today's America police almost never pay with either money or freedom for abusing the rights of citizens. Generally speaking, they only pay when citizens take the law into their own hands and make them pay.
> 
> This why Dorner is doing what he's doing. Others have taken a similar course in the past. One example is Christopher Monfort, who killed at least one Seattle pig in retaliation for that department's brutality and corruption.


dude, man, don't talk like that,  Think like that, by all means, but don't type it.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Not that CA residents should give up their weapons for any reason, but Dorner isn't out to get ordinary people.
> 
> In today's America police almost never pay with either money or freedom for abusing the rights of citizens. Generally speaking, they only pay when citizens take the law into their own hands and make them pay.
> 
> This why Dorner is doing what he's doing. Others have taken a similar course in the past. One example is Christopher Monfort, who killed at least one Seattle pig in retaliation for that department's brutality and corruption.


I remember a while back here, when someone (coastie?) mentioned that NYC cops were being really abusive until someone started killing cops at random on the street.  The abuse stopped.

-t

----------


## Carson

I'm not sure if your example is what he had in mind but...


_"When people fear the government, you have tyranny.  When the government fears the people, you have liberty"_

                                                -Thomas Jefferson

----------


## aGameOfThrones

http://news.yahoo.com/hunt-ex-cop-go...174551301.html

Do you think he'll get dumped in the ocean?

----------


## mad cow

Josef Stalin is arguably responsibile for more death and misery than anyone in the last 500 years.
His only daughter,Svetlana died a couple of years ago at 85 from cancer.She was a US citizen and she had lived here for decades.

Do any of you think she deserved death for the very real sins of her father?Well,you're to late for that,but *her* daughter is still alive and living in Portland,OR.Thankfully,America doesn't believe in Bills of Attainder or Corruption of Blood so anyone targeting her for the sins of her grandfather would get tried for murder.

This crazy man murdered the daughter and the daughter's fiance of his perceived enemy,he is no hero.

----------


## Carson

Something that should be brought up with all of the new gun infringement talk is that the tougher they make it for people to exercise their rights the tougher it gets to come forward to help or* even speak up*. Can you take the risk if you can't defend yourself even in your own home?

I think many would have welcomed help in the past.

Now they seem to want us shuttered away and silent.

----------


## tod evans

I agree he's no hero.


But.........................He didn't lie down and take it either..

From what I can gather he was provoked and taunted until he was fed up then he set about planning for vengeance...The coach and her boyfriend were just triggers used to set things in motion..

I haven't heard mention of indiscriminate slaughter of non-combatants, if I had I'd believe he lost his resolve...As things sit now it appears as though he intends to move forward with his plans.

Off the top of my head; I wouldn't expect him to target civilians even if cornered...

----------


## TheTexan

It would be a hell of a lot better if he hadn't (allegedly) killed the husband and wife, but even with that said, I believe he's doing more good than harm

----------


## UpperDecker

I figured I would share this in here as well:

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> I figured I would share this in here as well:



Safer for them, not you.

----------


## thoughtomator

> It would be a hell of a lot better if he hadn't (allegedly) killed the husband and wife, but even with that said, I believe he's doing more good than harm


I'm wondering if he had some specific grievances against those two that went beyond them merely being family of his former lawyer. Could something about them have been edited out of the "manifesto"?

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Josef Stalin is arguably responsibile for more death and misery than anyone in the last 500 years.
> His only daughter,Svetlana died a couple of years ago at 85 from cancer.She was a US citizen and she had lived here for decades.
> 
> Do any of you think she deserved death for the very real sins of her father?Well,you're to late for that,but *her* daughter is still alive and living in Portland,OR.Thankfully,America doesn't believe in Bills of Attainder or Corruption of Blood so anyone targeting her for the sins of her grandfather would get tried for murder.
> 
> This crazy man murdered the daughter and the daughter's fiance of his perceived enemy,he is no hero.


Yes. We get it. Virtually everyone, if not everyone, here agrees with you that killing someone's innocent family member is not justified. 

There are other aspects to this story as well.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> FTFY


Keep in mind this is a pretty unique situation, too. The dynamics involved with him being exLAPD himself, and purporting to be a whistle-blower at the end of his rope are some pretty unique and significant aspects of this situation.

This would be perceived as a pretty different story if it was some random citizen playing vigilante.

----------


## devil21

> http://news.yahoo.com/hunt-ex-cop-go...174551301.html
> 
> Do you think he'll get dumped in the ocean?


Do you think any of those guys are wondering 'wtf am I doing right now?"

----------


## Demigod

> Josef Stalin is arguably responsibile for more death and misery than anyone in the last 500 years.
> His only daughter,Svetlana died a couple of years ago at 85 from cancer.She was a US citizen and she had lived here for decades.
> 
> Do any of you think she deserved death for the very real sins of her father?Well,you're to late for that,but *her* daughter is still alive and living in Portland,OR.Thankfully,America doesn't believe in Bills of Attainder or Corruption of Blood so anyone targeting her for the sins of her grandfather would get tried for murder.
> 
> This crazy man murdered the daughter and the daughter's fiance of his perceived enemy,he is no hero.



Stalin was dead and his daughter had nothing to do with his crimes,she was even a victim so there is no point in killing her because Stalin is dead.Even when he was alive there would be no point because he was mad,killing his family would mean nothing to him.

On the other hand that corrupt cop will now suffer all his life,because he is responsible for the death of his family.He being corrupt is what killed them.That is the point of  killing someones family to make them feel the pain.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

That is idiotic.  I'm not even sure how else to respond.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> The police chief (Captain's rank) became a lawyer and represented Dohner at his disciplinary hearing in which he was fired. He blamed him for not suppressing and/or introducing evidence that would have proven Dohner correct.



Is that the same "chief" I saw on Anderson Cooper saying he didn't remember Dorner?

Not even sure how I wound up on a POS news channel, but they were showing the badge type thing with the bullet holes in it supposedly mailed to Cooper.  Anyway, they had a picture of the "chief" shaking Dorner's hand.  Dorner looked HUGE and this guy saying he didn't remember him didn't pass a smell test at all.

----------


## phill4paul

> Is that the same "chief" I saw on Anderson Cooper saying he didn't remember Dorner?
> 
> Not even sure how I wound up on a POS news channel, but they were showing the badge type thing with the bullet holes in it supposedly mailed to Cooper.  Anyway, they had a picture of the "chief" shaking Dorner's hand.  Dorner looked HUGE and this guy saying he didn't remember him didn't pass a smell test at all.


  Yeah, I had debated whether to watch a tube of that and decided against it. I can't stand these shows.
  If the chief said he never remembered meeting him and they had a picture for proof that does sound pretty fishy.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

It was this guy...  William Bratton on Cooper, and I think this was the image.



Described as 6' and 270 pounds, I'd not forget him.

----------


## phill4paul

A more detailed account of the shooting incident involving the two Latina women........

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4414028.story




> Law enforcement sources told The Times that *at least seven officers opened fire.* On Friday, *the street was pockmarked with bullet holes in cars, trees, garage doors and roofs.* Residents said they wanted to know what happened.


 


> Though Beck said he does not doubt the women did not hear any verbal commands, he emphasized that it was still possible the officers did attempt to stop the vehicle before opening fire. And, while not commenting specifically on this shooting, Beck said it was not difficult to imagine how officers who were already on edge could make the mistake these officers did.
> 
> *"As an officer, you look for cues. You know how someone drives normally and then you see someone coming at you slowly, driving in the middle of the street, stopping and starting. That can be misinterpreted," he sai*d.
> 
> Beck said he had not yet received a detailed briefing, which typically occurs a few days after officer-involved shootings to give investigators time to collect evidence and put together the basic summary of what happened. But he did say that the gunfire occurred in two bursts: *The first came from an officer positioned down the block from the LAPD official's residence, and the second when Carranza accelerated away from the gunfire and toward other officers.*
> 
> After the investigation is completed, Beck and an oversight board will decide if officers were justified in the shooting or made mistakes that warrant either punishment or training.


  Silly mundane. If you run from a police officer shooting at you then you are obviously guilty of something.




> Kathy Merkosky, 53, was outside her stucco home pointing out the six bullet holes in the bumper and grill of her silver Acura MD-X. She knew her truck was damaged when she spotted it on television and "saw fluid flowing into the street."
> 
> Her Ford Focus was hit as well — a bullet shattered the windshield and another flattened a front tire.
> 
> *"I've never heard gunfire on my street," Merkosky said. "Or ever in my life.... I hope they catch the guy so all this craziness will end."*


  Which guy Kathy? The one that shot up your car?




> Goo also was startled by the early-morning blasts.
> 
> "When I heard all the pop-pop-popping, I dropped to the ground, crawled around and pulled my wife out of the bed and I got on top of her," he said.
> 
> Goo said he could hear the bullets hitting the front door and feared they were coming through the house. *He said he called 911 for the police, but was notified that they were already there.*


  Surprise, surprise.........

  ETA: OOps..already covered...http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...paper-carriers

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Attempted homicide

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> A more detailed account of the shooting incident involving the two Latina women........






I'd be getting together with neighbors and suggesting that guy and his gang move out of the neighborhood.

----------


## presence

Why is it we have 11,000 gun homocides a year in this country that largely go unaccounted for but a cop gets shot and there is DE FACTO martial law?

----------


## MelissaCato

What's the latest ? He still on the loose ?

----------


## pcosmar

> What's the latest ? He still on the loose ?


No headline that he is dead..as yet.

His chances of arrest and trial are damn slim.

----------


## phill4paul

> What's the latest ? He still on the loose ?


  Search was suspended last evening. They are picking it up again.

----------


## Pericles

Imagine the reaction of the guy calling 911 because he is getting lit up, and requesting help from the police, only to find out that it is the police lighting him up.

----------


## AGRP

Has there ever been this kind of response when a serial killer was on the lose?

----------


## dannno



----------


## Philhelm

> Has there ever been this kind of response when a serial killer was on the lose?


Of course not.  The cops and the state only care about themselves.

----------


## AGRP

> Of course not.  The cops and the state only care about themselves.


Theyre just prostitutes and its the nature of their business. Its the prostitutes fault for putting themselves in that situation.  You say to legalize prostitution so most of the murders and associated problems go away? No. I need the overtime from working prostitution stings to pay for my boat.

----------


## AFPVet

> Why is it we have 11,000 gun homicides a year in this country that largely go unaccounted for but a cop gets shot and there is DE FACTO martial law?


... King's soldiers....

----------


## gwax23

> Christopher Dorner is an American HERO!



Youve neg rep'ed me more than anyone else on this forum by far...and now I know why.

Because "you're" an idiot.

----------


## Philhelm

> Youve neg rep'ed me more than anyone else on this forum by far...and now I know why.
> 
> Because *you're* an idiot.


I couldn't resist.  Sorry.

----------


## cheapseats

> Please note that this rogue cop is not barricaded somewhere, waiting for the police to arrive with overwhelming force.  Rather, he is on the offensive, striking when they are vulnerable.  Now, let us imagine that the rogue cop is a gun owner refusing to disarm.



I would imagine that said Gun Owner(s) are NOT "taking the offensive" but, rather, scrambling into do-or-die DEFENSIVENESS.

But whether the "Moving Target" is aggressive or defensive, take a gander at the virtual disappearance of unmonitored Gary Johnson's Grassroots Forum...buried under spam crapola...to recalibrate notions about the inviolability of private property of them who hightail it.

http://garyjohnsongrassroots.com/

----------


## Anti Federalist

That is probably in the top five of funniest things I've seen on here.




>

----------


## sailingaway

> No headline that he is dead..as yet.
> 
> *His chances of arrest and trial are damn slim*.


given the shot up trucks so far, I have to agree with that.

If he did what they say though, I don't remotely consider him a hero.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

This truly needs to be communicated to Zombie America... has everyone distributed this on Social Media avenues?  


> I figured I would share this in here as well:

----------


## pcosmar

> given the shot up trucks so far, I have to agree with that.
> 
> If he did what they say though, I don't remotely consider him a hero.


If he *did not* do what they said,, I don't consider him a hero. I consider him a victim.

And going back over the logical inconsistencies of this story,,I am more convinced that he is exactly that.
More is going on here.

----------


## tod evans

> given the shot up trucks so far, I have to agree with that.
> 
> If he did what they say though, I don't remotely consider him a hero.



I don't think being a "hero" has anything to do with it.....

From here it looks like an extremely well armed large bunch of bad-guys chasing one fairly well armed lone bad-guy...

Some are cheering the group and others are cheering the underdog...

How many will acknowledge that they're *all* bad-guys?

----------


## pcosmar

> How many will acknowledge that they're *all* bad-guys?


I don't believe that police should exist at all,, however, some join with the intent to do good.
And in time past there was an acceptable code of conduct that most followed.

Now,,not so much.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I don't think being a "hero" has anything to do with it.....
> 
> From here it looks like an extremely well armed large bunch of bad-guys chasing one fairly well armed lone bad-guy...
> 
> Some are cheering the group and others are cheering the underdog...
> 
> How many will acknowledge that they're *all* bad-guys?


How many cheered this man on when he was stationed overseas doing essentially the same thing, killing or assigned to kill, the "bad guys" and their families?

----------


## AGRP

> How many cheered this man on when he was stationed overseas doing essentially the same thing, killing or assigned to kill, the "bad guys" and their families?



There seems to be an emerging pattern with guys who "serve" and become volatile civilians and police officers.

----------


## tod evans

> I don't believe that police should exist at all,, however, some join with the intent to do good.
> And in time past there was an acceptable code of conduct that most followed.
> 
> Now,,not so much.





> How many cheered this man on when he was stationed overseas doing essentially the same thing, killing or assigned to kill, the "bad guys" and their families?


I'm not cheering any of them but............I'm glad they're eating their own instead of non-combatants....

So far.....

----------


## cheapseats

DORMER + ROUTH >> Ex-Cops and Ex-Soldiers who leave service under any kind of cloud should be denied firearms...capisce?  

Oh, and the Usual Deciders define the cloud.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I'm not cheering any of them but............I'm glad they're eating their own instead of non-combatants....
> 
> So far.....


Not directed specifically at you brother.

Just musing and a rhetorical question.

----------


## tod evans

> Not directed specifically at you brother.
> 
> Just musing and a rhetorical question.


Understood, no offence taken...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> 


That has a "Surprise Muthafucker" meme written all over it.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

So 60+ pages so far. Any confirmed kills of innocents by Dorner yet? I know there wasn't yesterday.

----------


## pcosmar

> So 60+ pages so far. Any confirmed kills of innocents by Dorner yet? I know there wasn't yesterday.


Nope,, the first 2 alleged based on a very questionable "manifesto",, and one of a hit team that came after him.

----------


## Carson

> So 60+ pages so far. Any confirmed kills of innocents by Dorner yet? I know there wasn't yesterday.



I feel any news that is happening is being blocked.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

What drugs was he on? SSRIs again?

----------


## Carson

> Nope,, the first 2 alleged based on a very questionable "manifesto",, and one of a hit team that came after him.



Manifesto.

Such a negative, socialist sounding word. Note;	an *edict*  is a formal or authoritative proclamation.


While I'm on a beef there is the thing when people say politico. North of the border the word is politician. And if someone is calling you, "English learners" find yourself a teacher that teaches English to English students.

----------


## squarepusher

> Nope,, the first 2 alleged based on a very questionable "manifesto",, and one of a hit team that came after him.


so you think the police killed one of their own's daughter and fiance, to frame Dorner, for what reason exactly?  To pass gun control legislation maybe?  the man was already fired and had commit no crimes up until that point.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> *so you think the police killed one of their own's daughter and fiance, to frame Dorner*, for what reason exactly?  To pass gun control legislation maybe?  the man was already fired and had commit no crimes up until that point.



I doubt it, but there's so much fishy $#@! going on lately, it's really hard to tell who is doing what.  One thing you can count on is that cops and politicians will lie like wet sacks of $#@!.

----------


## pcosmar

> so you think the police killed one of their own's daughter and fiance, to frame Dorner, for what reason exactly?  To pass gun control legislation maybe?  the man was already fired and had commit no crimes up until that point.


Where did I say that?
*Seriously* Where? You just make $#@! up and put it on me like I said it?
I don't $#@!ing know how they were killed or by who.

I could speculate several possible ways it could have happened.

[speculation] Drug deal gone bad.. lovers quarrel.. suicide pact. any number of ways that might be an embarrassment to the COP Family.

Dorner, being a general PITA was just a convenient patsy. 
Write up a confession (manifesto) leave some of his old gear around (or just say you found it) and sic the dogs on him. [/speculation]

I don't know. But the story spun makes no logical sense and has gaping holes in it.

----------


## coastie

> so you think the police killed one of their own's daughter and fiance, to frame Dorner, for what reason exactly?  To pass gun control legislation maybe?  *the man was already fired and had commit no crimes up until that point*.


That's been kinda bugging me the last couple of days. Why now, 4 years after the proceedings were over and he was fired? That seems a little long to still be stewing over why he was fired.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Is that the same "chief" I saw on Anderson Cooper saying he didn't remember Dorner?
> 
> Not even sure how I wound up on a POS news channel, but they were showing the badge type thing with the bullet holes in it supposedly mailed to Cooper.  Anyway, they had a picture of the "chief" shaking Dorner's hand.  Dorner looked HUGE and this guy saying he didn't remember him didn't pass a smell test at all.



Not the same one, Bratton was the one who gave him the badge/medal. Quan was the one who was his defense lawyer.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> That's been kinda bugging me the last couple of days. Why now, 4 years after the proceedings were over and he was fired? That seems a little long to still be stewing over why he was fired.


He tried to go through the court system and failed. That part ended only very recently.

----------


## TheTexan

> I doubt it, but there's so much fishy $#@! going on lately, it's really hard to tell who is doing what.  One thing you can count on is that cops and politicians will lie like wet sacks of $#@!.


Indeed.  The only thing we know for sure at this point is that the cops want Chris Dorner dead.  They want him really dead.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> That's been kinda bugging me the last couple of days. Why now, 4 years after the proceedings were over and he was fired? That seems a little long to still be stewing over why he was fired.



The proceedings and appeals were not over 4 years ago, as I understand it, but I don't have dates to back it up.  I will rarely respond to a thread without reading all of it, and I read something like 57 pages of this one before responding.  I believe I read that the appeals process was exhausted much more recently.





> Not the same one, Bratton was the one who gave him the badge/medal. Quan was the one who was his defense lawyer.



Yeah...  I did figure that out even if I was unclear in saying so.  I still don't believe Bratton's assertion he didn't remember the guy.  For one, just the sheer size of that guy is a memory.  For another, I find it hard to believe Bratton cut off contact with the rest of the PD after he retired - and the surroundings of this case should have jogged his memory.  My best guess is that Bratton lied about that to keep himself out of court proceedings or anything else - whatever that might be.

----------


## pcosmar

> Indeed.  The only thing we know for sure at this point is that the cops want Chris Dorner dead.  They want him really dead.


That part is very clear,, as is the media's lack of any investigation beyond parroting the Police Public statements.

----------


## squarepusher

> That's been kinda bugging me the last couple of days. Why now, 4 years after the proceedings were over and he was fired? That seems a little long to still be stewing over why he was fired.


Also, apparently 8 days ago, Friday, 2 days before the Quan murders, was his last day with affiliation to the Navy.  So it looks like things were wrapping up with his life at this point.




> Where did I say that?
> *Seriously* Where? You just make $#@! up and put it on me like I said it?
> I don't $#@!ing know how they were killed or by who.
> 
> I could speculate several possible ways it could have happened.
> 
> [speculation] Drug deal gone bad.. lovers quarrel.. suicide pact. any number of ways that might be an embarrassment to the COP Family.
> 
> Dorner, being a general PITA was just a convenient patsy. 
> ...


I was just trying to find out what you meant.   So you mean that Dorner was framed for the Quan 2 murders, and the manifesto is a forgery quickly constructed to prevent embarrassment for death of the Quan's daughter/fiance.  Then who killed the Riverside police officer in the ambush this week?  Ok, Dorner did that murder, but just because he was framed for the first 2 murders?

The official story seems fine to me, no real holes, your suggested scenario is beyond beyond credibility in my view.  Of course the police want to cover their ass, but that is limited to the wrongful trial/proceeding that fired Dorner, which is limited to lying and they already accomplished their goal of getting him fired.  We do have things such as forensic evidence that can detect if someone commit suicide or was killed, its not simple to just blaming it on Dorner.  Also, the police aren't very smart to create these scenarios as distractions, they lie yes, but constructing an entire alternate fabrication doesn't seem MO for police.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Nope,, the first 2 alleged based on a very questionable "manifesto",, and one of a hit team that came after him.


Thanks bro. I know they are and will try to set him up for alot of bull$#@! charges. I don't think any of us should pin a crime on him until it is 100% confirmed he did it.

----------


## pcosmar

> Also, apparently 8 days ago, Friday, 2 days before the Quan murders, was his last day with affiliation to the Navy.  So it looks like things were wrapping up with his life at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> I was just trying to find out what you meant.   So you mean that Dorner was framed for the Quan 2 murders, and the manifesto is a forgery quickly constructed to prevent embarrassment for death of the Quan's daughter/fiance.  Then who killed the Riverside police officer in the ambush this week?  Ok, Dorner did that murder, but just because he was framed for the first 2 murders?
> 
> The official story seems fine to me, no real holes, .


I said speculation. and that is what I meant. as to the "ambush". Who ambushed who?

The story is that he just pulled up next to the cops and opened fire.. 
4 cops.  Cops ride One or Two to a car. Never 4. You can NOT open the door from the inside. You will never see a cop in the back seat unless he is under arrest(rare).
So Two cars?and pull up beside,,, The story stinks. those 4 were hunting him.

He allegedly left his badge and ID on a bus.. 4 years after he is fired he still has his badge?

I think the man is running,, he has to know he is a target.

The Manifesto was a convoluted and contradictory piece of crap, allegedly from a Facebook page that does not even exist.

Yes, there are holes in the story.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> The official story seems fine to me



That's so rare.  Since this person is accused of killing innocents, he deserves court proceedings.  The police response, OTOH, is despicable by their own admissions.  The police deserve trials too (as do all americans), but I expect they'll never be charged.

And pcosmar has correctly called bull$#@! on plenty of things over the years, so I'm personally not so quick to dismiss his thoughts.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-officers.html




> *Dorner had history of complaints against fellow LAPD officers*
>                         February  9, 2013 |     
> 
> 
> The  fugitive ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, suspected of killing three  people and injuring two, had a history of making complaints against  fellow officers within the Los Angeles Police Department, and one  officer said he had a reputation as a "hot head," according to internal  affairs records. 
> 
>  Dorner was accused of punching a recruit in the chest while he was in the Police Academy in 2006. That recruit, Abraham Schefres, was wearing a bulletproof vest and a trauma plate, when Dorner allegedly punched him. After being hit, he glared at Dorner, whom Schefres said responded as though he had made a mistake, records show. Schefres said he believed that Dorner had not been trying to hurt him but that the punch was "more of a 'hello'" and to appear tough.
>  Schefres told an investigator that he "believed this was part of Dorners persona," records show. Schefres described Dorner as "a hot head" who would walk up to fellow recruits and "get in their faces in an aggressive" but joking way. 
> 
> ...

----------


## tod evans

> Also, the police aren't very smart to create these scenarios as distractions, they lie yes, but constructing an entire alternate fabrication doesn't seem MO for police.


Cops and DA's conspire to create life altering scenarios every day, and the media backs their play...

----------


## MelissaCato

Why is it when I Google this guy to get an update  .. only about a 1/2 dozen results all old nothing new show up ?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Thanks bro. I know they are and will try to set him up for alot of bull$#@! charges. I don't think any of us should pin a crime on him until it is 100% confirmed he did it.


I hope he did do it. I want the blowback to come from one of their own. It would just be another 'drug dealer' or 'crook' elsewise. Him being a former officer etc. gives a sense of legitimacy to his claims/methods. Innocent until proven guilty sure, but I am not on the jury, and feel enough evidence has been compiled that he did do these crimes. He is not a hero, simply a man who was pushed too far. And FTP. I've watched a few men gunned down this last year, hundreds more beat down, evidence planted, and a general abuse of power, for me to even shed a crocodile tear. $#@! 'em. And quite honestly Dorner's about the only 'good' cop I've seen. Hell, at least he went to bat for the mentally ill man. (I believe I saw that incident he is referring to. I don't assume there to be too many other incidents of a Latina cop shooting a mentally ill man with a taser and then kicking him a few times in the chest/head on the West coast. I'm going to do a little digging and I'll find the video I'm thinking of.)


ETA: I can't find the incident I'm thinking of. I saw it about 6 months back and cannot remember what exactly it was named. Now that I think of it though, considering his incident happened four or five years ago I doubt it is it.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> so you think the police killed one of their own's daughter and fiance, to frame Dorner, for what reason exactly?  To pass gun control legislation maybe?  the man was already fired and had commit no crimes up until that point.


Why don't you prove Dorner did it instead of questioning people who don't believe the word of the LAPD.

If they said grass was green and the sky is blue I'd have to go see for myself.

----------


## tod evans

> Why is it when I Google this guy to get an update  .. only about a 1/2 dozen results all old nothing new show up ?


Could have something to do with the disappearing copies of his "manifesto" (edict) and the cohabitation of MSM and LEO...

----------


## pcosmar

> Why is it when I Google this guy to get an update  .. only about a 1/2 dozen results all old nothing new show up ?


Makes it hard to document changes in the story. as they often are changed.

----------


## pcosmar

> Why don't you prove Dorner did it instead of questioning people who don't believe the word of the LAPD.
> 
> *If they said grass was green and the sky is blue I'd have to go see for myself*.


Amen.

I believe that an individual deserves a *presumption of innocence*.. and that the state and it's enforcers are always suspect.

History has proven that the state and the media have no credibility.

----------


## Danke

> He allegedly left his badge and ID on a bus.. 4 years after he is fired he still has his badge?


They said his ID and an LAPD detective badge.  Not clear whose badge.

----------


## squarepusher

> Cops and DA's conspire to create life altering scenarios every day, and the media backs their play...



creating this entire frame job, manifesto included, in 24 hours time?  extremely not likely.  If you factor in the mail sent to news reporters, this also makes it pretty impossible

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I said speculation. and that is what I meant. as to the "ambush". Who ambushed who?
> 
> The story is that he just pulled up next to the cops and opened fire.. 
> 4 cops.  Cops ride One or Two to a car. Never 4. You can NOT open the door from the inside. You will never see a cop in the back seat unless he is under arrest(rare).
> So Two cars?and pull up beside,,, The story stinks. those 4 were hunting him.
> 
> He allegedly left his badge and ID on a bus.. 4 years after he is fired he still has his badge?
> 
> I think the man is running,, he has to know he is a target.
> ...




Yeah the official story doesn't make sense at all. It's comical that someone would actually believe it.

----------


## pcosmar

> creating this entire frame job, manifesto included, in 24 hours time?  extremely not likely.  If you factor in the mail sent to news reporters, this also makes it pretty impossible


Mail? hand out in the press room. They also said it came from Facebook. Yet no one can find it.

What part of THEY LIE don't you understand?
The man is accused and he deserves a trial. 
It is very clear that they have no intention whatsoever of ever allowing that to happen.

Why is that?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Makes it hard to document changes in the story. as they often are changed.


Well, for one thing, they originally stated the manifesto was 11 pages single spaced. Last AP article I read knocked that number down to nine.

----------


## thoughtomator

Twitter is definitely being censored - Dorner and LAPD are not trending even though the tweets are still flying fast and furious on both.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Mail? hand out in the press room. They also said it came from Facebook. Yet no one can find it.
> 
> What part of THEY LIE don't you understand?
> The man is accused and he deserves a trial. 
> It is very clear that they have no intention whatsoever of ever allowing that to happen.
> 
> Why is that?


Because he shot (they believe) two pigs. Why'd John Dillinger catch a bullet through his cheek? Why'd Bonnie and Clyde get left in pieces? He could go two states away and they'd probably light his ass up if they pulled him over.

----------


## Expatriate

What I'd like to know is where they came up with that "Imagine a More Open America" explanation for the IMOA/1MOA abbreviation that came with the bullet riddled police token. CNN said it was a "commonly used Internet abbreviation" and everyone else parroted them but if you google it there are no results except for media articles about Dorner. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-CA....1.GzTkbJk-vaM

It's so completely out of left field, why would they just make up something nonsensical like that? Can't they even check to see if it's a real abbreviation before yammering about it on national TV?

----------


## TheTexan

> What I'd like to know is where they came up with that "Imagine a More Open America" explanation for the IMOA/1MOA abbreviation that came with the bullet riddled police token. CNN said it was a "commonly used Internet abbreviation" and everyone else parroted them but if you google it there are no results except for media articles about Dorner. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-CA....1.GzTkbJk-vaM
> 
> It's so completely out of left field, why would they just make up something nonsensical like that? Can't they even check to see if it's a real abbreviation before yammering about it on national TV?



Yep.  Google this: "imagine a more open america" -manifesto -dorner

Only two pages of results come up and it all talks about dorner.  That phrase didn't even exist prior to this incident.

ETA:  There was ONE non-dorner-related result, from five years ago, that said "imagine a more open america"... one result lol

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> ETA:  There was ONE non-dorner-related result, from five years ago, that said "imagine a more open america"... one result lol


Yeah I went through pages and only found some random comment on a yahoo question a long time ago on one of the last pages:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...8153209AAK4kjE

weird.

----------


## TheTexan

> Yeah I went through pages and only found some random comment on a yahoo question a long time ago on one of the last pages:
> 
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...8153209AAK4kjE
> 
> weird.


Oh well.

ACIFOS.

----------


## TheTexan

For anyone wondering, ACIFOS is a commonly used internet acronym that stands for "Anderson Cooper is Full of $#@!"

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> For anyone wondering, ACIFOS is a commonly used internet acronym that stands for "Anderson Cooper is Full of $#@!"


That one's more common than 'imoa.'

----------


## squarepusher

> Mail? hand out in the press room. They also said it came from Facebook. Yet no one can find it.
> 
> What part of THEY LIE don't you understand?
> The man is accused and he deserves a trial. 
> It is very clear that they have no intention whatsoever of ever allowing that to happen.
> 
> Why is that?


He could have walked into a police station and surrendered and gotten a trial.  He could have arranged with a lawyer to surrender, etc... 
That wasn't his interntion though.  His intention is to wage war against anything related to the police department, including friends family relatives, etc...  To take out as many as possible before he goes down.


 I'm surprised you even believe he should have a trial since you seem to think anything related to government is fraudulent, and surely they could corrupt the trial just as they did on his excessive force complaint and how they framed him for Quan murders?

----------


## TheTexan

> I'm surprised you even believe he should have a trial since you seem to think anything related to government is fraudulent, and surely they could corrupt the trial just as they did on his excessive force complaint and how they framed him for Quan murders?


They would definitely railroad him in a sham trial, if he didn't "hang himself" while in jail/prison

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> He could have walked into a police station and surrendered and gotten a trial.  He could have arranged with a lawyer to surrender, etc... 
> That wasn't his interntion though.  His intention is to wage war against anything related to the police department, including friends family relatives, etc...  To take out as many as possible before he goes down.
> 
> 
>  I'm surprised you even believe he should have a trial since you seem to think anything related to government is fraudulent, and surely they could corrupt the trial just as they did on his excessive force complaint and how they framed him for Quan murders?




Now you pretend you know what his intentions were? 

LOL

----------


## seapilot

They found weapons and survival equipment in his burned out truck. He backtracked in the snow then went off in a different direction. Wonder why he would leave that stuff in his truck, this is getting really strange. Even more strange now Charlie Sheen is appealing for this guy to call him and "talk". This seems like a Hollywood script. 

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stori...er-resumes-big




> A fugitive ex-cop suspected of gunning down three people abandoned his pickup truck when its axle snapped on a rugged fire access road in the San Bernardino Mountains, where a search for fugitive entered its third day on Saturday, officials said.
> An arsenal of weapons and survival gear was found inside the burned-out pickup truck that Christopher Jordan Dorner set afire Thursday morning the Big Bear Ski Area official said.
> Authorities said it appeared that the axle of Dorner's truck broke when he briefly lost control of his Nissan pick-up on the access road, which is intended for use by heavy-duty fire equipment.
> He set off on foot, then backtracked using his same footprints, before setting off on a different course and disappearing into the wilderness, according to officials, who spoke on the condition on anonymity.

----------


## phill4paul

> They found weapons and survival equipment in his burned out truck. He backtracked in the snow then went off in a different direction. Wonder why he would leave that stuff in his truck, this is getting really strange. Even more strange now Charlie Sheen is appealing for this guy to call him and "talk". This seems like a Hollywood script. 
> 
> http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stori...er-resumes-big


  Why set he truck on fire? Why not push it down hill and off road and conceal it? Strange.

----------


## TheTexan

> Why set he truck on fire? Why not push it down hill and off road and conceal it? Strange.


I think he did it to get their attention.  Could have left weapons and survival gear to make it look like it was "unplanned", ie he wanted them to search for him in Big Bear

----------


## tod evans

> Why set he truck on fire? Why not push it down hill and off road and conceal it? Strange.



Were I to go angling for cops I'd bait the hook with something big and sparkly..........

----------


## phill4paul

> I think he did it to get their attention.  Could have left weapons and survival gear to make it look like it was "unplanned", ie he wanted them to search for him in Big Bear





> Were I to go angling for cops I'd bait the hook with something big and sparkly..........


  This is what I was thinking.

----------


## seapilot

> I think he did it to get their attention.  Could have left weapons and survival gear to make it look like it was "unplanned", ie he wanted them to search for him in Big Bear


That makes sense. If he really was hiding in the mountains he probably would have pushed it off the road so it would not be found for awhile. If he is not in the mountains he must have had another vehicle to get out of there or someone is helping him.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

I thought I saw something recently about the truck possibly having broken down. Something about busting up the axle.

EDIT: LOL whoops a link is at the top of the page. carry on.

----------


## phill4paul

> That makes sense. If he really was hiding in the mountains he probably would have pushed it off the road so it would not be found for awhile. If he is not in the mountains he must have had another vehicle to get out of there or someone is helping him.

----------


## Pericles

> That's been kinda bugging me the last couple of days. Why now, 4 years after the proceedings were over and he was fired? That seems a little long to still be stewing over why he was fired.


I believe he had appealed his firing, and that process ended in October, and his security clearance given by the Navy was subsequently pulled, and thus he was no longer elgible to be a Navy officer, and was discharged from the Navy Reserve on 1 February. It was not like he was fired 4 years ago and nothing happened in between.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> When this happens on a larger scale, this forum refers to it as blowback.


Some people will snap.  This guy snapped.  Snapping is not good, but it does happen.  Nothing justifies what's happening, but it's easy to see why he snapped.  It's best not to make people snap in the first place.  Be good to one another for Christ's sake.

----------


## pacodever

Reopening the disciplinary proceedings.  Think they will "find" anything new?  I can't imagine them pinning any wrongdoing on another officer.  More likely they will double-down on their denial of corruption, which could lead to more innocent deaths.




> Los Angeles police say they will reopen the disciplinary proceedings that led to the firing of a former officer who's wanted in three killings over the past several days.
> 
> Cmdr. Andrew Smith said Saturday that the department will reopen the investigation that apparently has led Christopher Dorner to seek revenge against former LAPD colleagues who he believed cost him his law enforcement career.
> 
> Dorner alleged in an online manifesto that he was wrongly fired for reporting that his training officer used excessive force.
> 
> Police Chief Charlie Beck tells KCBS-TV the department will thoroughly re-examine Dorner's allegation to ensure the public that the LAPD is fair and transparent. He says if Dorner wants to surrender, the LAPD will "be happy to hear what he has to say."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...ter-to-hunted/

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> They found weapons and survival equipment in his burned out truck. He backtracked in the snow then went off in a different direction. Wonder why he would leave that stuff in his truck, this is getting really strange. Even more strange now Charlie Sheen is appealing for this guy to call him and "talk". This seems like a Hollywood script. 
> 
> http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stori...er-resumes-big


"I got more $#@! than I can carry but I'm not leaving anything useful behind."

----------


## GunnyFreedom

I also agree if he didn't have a way out he wouldn't have left it for them to find.

----------


## Philhelm

> Reopening the disciplinary proceedings.  Think they will "find" anything new?  I can't imagine them pinning any wrongdoing on another officer.  More likely they will double-down on their denial of corruption, which could lead to more innocent deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...ter-to-hunted/


Ha ha ha ha!  Oh, they'll double-down for sure.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> I believe he had appealed his firing, and that process ended in October, and his security clearance given by the Navy was subsequently pulled, and thus he was no longer elgible to be a Navy officer, and was discharged from the Navy Reserve on 1 February. It was not like he was fired 4 years ago and nothing happened in between.


Sounds odd... what would the firing have to do with the NAVY reserves?

So now the LAPD is reopening the firing... you figure the FBI would of been in there on this by the end of day one.

----------


## coastie

> I believe he had appealed his firing, and that process ended in October, and his security clearance given by the Navy was subsequently pulled, and thus he was no longer elgible to be a Navy officer, and was discharged from the Navy Reserve on 1 February. It was not like he was fired 4 years ago and nothing happened in between.



He was Honorably Discharged. Regardless, his clearance would've been pulled the second he was no longer employed by them-mine was, so I don't believe that has anything to do with it whatsoever.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> *Sounds odd... what would the firing have to do with the NAVY reserves?*
> 
> So now the LAPD is reopening the firing... you figure the FBI would of been in there on this by the end of day one.


Him being accused of filing a false report presumably.

----------


## UWDude

Hmm...  ...the more I think about it, the more I believe Dorner put the last part in his manifesto because he knows how the media would treat him if he put down his true political thoughts.  There is a good possibility he is not a Democrat at all.  Two AR-15's?

As I haev said many times before, Occam's razor does not apply to people.

----------


## Henry Rogue

> They found weapons and survival equipment in his burned out truck. He backtracked in the snow then went off in a different direction. Wonder why he would leave that stuff in his truck, this is getting really strange. Even more strange now *Charlie Sheen is appealing for this guy to call him and "talk".* This seems like a Hollywood script. 
> 
> http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stori...er-resumes-big


Well, Charlie was in the movie "The Chase". I guess he thinks that makes him an expert. Henry Rollins did a great spoof of "Cops" in that movie.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Come on, he was depressed for years. SSRIs?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Come on, he was depressed for years. SSRIs?


Ask Anderson Cooper.

----------


## CPUd

> To police every dog is a pit bull, now every pickup is a Nissan.

----------


## cjm

> Ask Anderson Cooper.


ACIFOS

----------


## pacodever

> He was Honorably Discharged. Regardless, his clearance would've been pulled the second he was no longer employed by them-mine was, so I don't believe that has anything to do with it whatsoever.


Not true.  Secret security clearances are good for 10 years. Top Secret (SCI-DCID) clearances are good for 5 years from you last background check.  This would not be pulled just because he was honorably discharged.  Private companies actually seek out former military with clearances because it saves them money and time in the hiring, vetting process.  

Now, your "need-to-know" is gone because you are no longer employed by the DoD and your particular unit, so you can't just continue to help yourself to their classified information, areas, or spaces.  He could have lost it previously from the false statement accusations or the restraining order incident or another reason such as financial or maybe even CO recommendation or a psych eval.  In which case they could decide to discharge you, or move you to a different warfare area such as a non-operational, no-security-clearance-required billet if it suits the needs of your particular service.  

If they did pull his clearance, as an officer they might allow him to fulfill his service obligation and then choose not to promote him, effectively firing him once he reached a certain point in his warfare area pipeline.  For Surface Warfare Officers, you get 7 1/2 years and then you must $#@! or get off the pot, meaning you either sign up for a Department Head tour or process out of the Navy, but you must have a Department Head recommendation on your FITREP to sign up for the DH tour as well as a valid security clearance.  At least that was my understanding when I got out.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> ACIFOS


It needs to be 'trending.' #ACIFOS

----------


## cjm

> It needs to be 'trending.' #ACIFOS


Yup, and in two years, Rick Santelli can claim he started it!

----------


## pacodever

> Despite the manhunt's shift to the mountains, *Miller reports that authorities are making sure police will maintain a presence at Sunday night's Grammy Awards in Los Angeles by calling in officers initially scheduled to have the day off and having others work overtime.*


Poor cops losing their day off, but hey, those Grammy Awards need protection.




> The manhunt didn't appear to bother the majority of tourists intent on enjoying Saturday's perfect winter weather, which made for strikingly odd contrasts: the sound of barking bloodhounds mixed with rap music blaring off the ski slopes; *a family with kids strolling by a deputy, who was clad in full tactical gear and practicing his aim on a small snowdrift.*


What a bizarre police state we live in.  "Don't mind the deputy in full tactical gear pointing his gun around kids.  He is just doing his job.  Lets get back to the slopes!"




> The search once included 125 officers but that number was reduced to 50 on Saturday, according to the sheriff's office.


Sounds like they are either getting burnt out because they are spread so far and thin or they are shifting the location of the search. Or they have no idea where he actually is. Or the Grammys are more important to them and they will probably shoot less innocent civilians there.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...x-cops-firing/

----------


## Anti Federalist

> the sound of *barking bloodhounds* mixed with *rap music blaring* off the ski slopes; a family with kids strolling by a deputy, who was *clad in full tactical gear* and practicing his aim on a small snowdrift.


Ugh, what a way to perfectly $#@! up a pristine, snow clad mountain.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Apparently they've brought out the drones:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...lled-policeman




> POLICE plan to use spy drones in the hunt for a Rambo-style ex-soldier and policeman who has murdered three people and vowed to kill again.
> 
> They believe burly, heavily-armed Christopher Dorner is holed-up in the wilderness of California’s snow-capped San Bernardino mountains 80 miles east of Los Angeles.
> 
> The burnt-out shell of his pick-up truck was discovered in the nearby resort of Big Bear, where residents and tourists have been warned to stay indoors as the search continues.
> 
> *Yesterday, as a task force of 125 officers, some riding Snowcats in the rugged terrain, continued their search, it was revealed that Dorner has become the first human target for remotely-controlled airborne drones on US soil.*
> 
> A senior police source said: “The thermal imaging cameras the drones use may be our only hope of finding him. On the ground, it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack.”
> ...

----------


## sailingaway

> Apparently they've brought out the drones:
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...lled-policeman


So we're supposed to trust drones more than the people on the ground shooting pick ups?

or is this just how we are supposed to overlook their having drones here?  Because of the 'emergency'?

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Desperate times call for desperate measures!

----------


## noneedtoaggress

After they catch him they're desperately going to need to spy on everyone for National Security.

----------


## sailingaway

this guy says he's probably in Baja California, so get the drones out of here: http://t.co/THc8Be4I

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> this guy says he's probably in Baja California, so get the drones out of here: http://t.co/THc8Be4I


Hell, they think he could be _anywhere_! Better just cover as much of the globe as possible.

Just to be safe.

----------


## sailingaway

> Hell, they think he could be _anywhere_! Better just cover as much of the globe as possible.
> 
> Just to be safe.



no.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

But... what about safety?? Think of the children.

----------


## sailingaway

Radio control planes are FOR children, not spying on law abiding citizens.

----------


## noneedtoaggress



----------


## sailingaway



----------


## Anti Federalist

> Apparently they've brought out the drones:
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...lled-policeman


Well, that was only a matter of time.

And when the armed drones start smoking hikers and snowboarders it'll just be dimissed as collateral damage.

----------


## sailingaway



----------


## Carson

> 


From what I've heard they can't see that good. 

The best picture I've seen off of them is grainy as all get out. Not something you could identify a person with. I've heard the way they find a target is to have someone on the ground locate the person and then do something like toss a cell phone into a flower bed near their location. The drone can then track in on it.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> From what I've heard they can't see that good. 
> 
> The best picture I've seen off of them is grainy as all get out. Not something you could identify a person with. I've heard the way they find a target is to have someone on the ground locate the person and then do something like toss a cell phone into a flower bed near their location. The drone can then track in on it.


Oh, yeah I'm sure the standard ones don't carry a cam set up like the one in the video.

----------


## phill4paul

Damage control....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/us...case.html?_r=0




> Los Angeles to Reopen Its Inquiry of Officer
> 
>   LOS ANGELES — The Los Angeles Police Department will reopen its investigation into the 2007 episode that led to the firing of Christopher J. Dorner, the former police officer who is wanted in three killings, department officials said Saturday night.






> “I am aware of the ghosts of the L.A.P.D.’s past, and one of my biggest concerns is that they will be resurrected by Dorner’s allegations of racism within the department,” Chief Charlie Beck said in a written statement.
> 
> *“Therefore, I feel we need to also publicly address Dorner’s allegations regarding his termination,” he said. “I do this not to appease a murderer. I do it to reassure the public that their Police Department is transparent and fair in all the things we do.”*


 


> One of the women, Emma Hernandez, 71, who was struck by two bullets in her back, was released from the hospital on Friday night, according to her lawyer. Her daughter, Margie Carranza, 47, suffered an wound to her hand. Chief Beck met with the two women on Saturday and *told them that the department had arranged for the donation of a new truck for them, Cmdr. Andrew Smith said.*

----------


## seyferjm

I haven't been following this thread, but surely I'm not the only one who thinks he could have fled the country? I wouldn't be easy for him to do so, but I really wonder if he's even here anymore.

----------


## tod evans

> Chief Beck met with the two women on Saturday and told them that the department had arranged for the donation of a new truck for them, Cmdr. Andrew Smith said.


The reporter neglected to report on the release agreement the women where required to sign in order to receive the "donated" truck...

You know the one that absolves the cops from all responsibility......

----------


## phill4paul

> The reporter neglected to report on the release agreement the women where required to sign in order to receive the "donated" truck...
> 
> You know the one that absolves the cops from all responsibility......


  Hopefully, they have have legal council and are smarter than that.

----------


## ghengis86

> Hopefully, they have have legal council and are smarter than that.


they do, and i hope he was present.  I can't imaging a $30,000 truck would be enough to absolve attempted murder....

----------


## sailingaway

> I haven't been following this thread, but surely I'm not the only one who thinks he could have fled the country? I wouldn't be easy for him to do so, but I really wonder if he's even here anymore.


absolutely. As I posted earlier, a SEAL is pretty confident he would have gone to Baja California so get the drones out of California.

----------


## Expatriate

> they do, and i hope he was present.  I can't imaging a $30,000 truck would be enough to absolve attempted murder....


Probably a truck that they stole seized in a drug bust anyways.

----------


## phill4paul

> Probably a truck that they stole seized in a drug bust anyways.


 


> Chief Charlie Beck met with the women in their Torrance home Saturday to apologize and tell them *he had arranged for someone to donate a new pickup truck*, Smith said. The truck will be donated early this week.


 http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...190568921.html

----------


## sailingaway

> they do, and i hope he was present.  I can't imaging a $30,000 truck would be enough to absolve attempted murder....


They had an attorney, he was quoted.  I am pretty sure they are trying to not add insult to injury in negotiations, it is very clear the women are entitled to a truck and hospital bills, it is when you get beyond that that the negotiations start, I would suspect.

----------


## MelissaCato

> I haven't been following this thread, but surely I'm not the only one who thinks he could have fled the country? I wouldn't be easy for him to do so, but I really wonder if he's even here anymore.


I've been reading his manifesto over and over again. I think he's on the move because his manifesto gives a warning to other agencies and what will happen if he is pulled over. His manifesto clearly says death and destruction will be "HIGH" within the LAPD. The LAPD says they will not leave that Big Bear mountain till they find him. He is not on the mountain - I don't think he ever was because his mother owns land there - BUT if he wanted the entire LAPD to focus on one place - his plan is working.

I think he's waiting for the weather to suit the LAPD so they put as many LAPD police on that mountain as they can and then he's gonna blow it up. That's what I think. He said "*orphanages will be making a comeback in the 21st century.*" This guy, I think plans on killing alot of people and I honestly don't see how he could accomplish that other than a massive explosion killing as many  as he can that are in one place. He clearly hates the LAPD - sooo

His manifesto is almost cryptic I think.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> They had an attorney, he was quoted.  I am pretty sure they are trying to not add insult to injury in negotiations, it is very clear the women are entitled to a truck and hospital bills, it is when you get beyond that that the negotiations start, I would suspect.


I would like to see the officers involved in this shooting pay the settlement personally. That's really the only way this is going to change. They need to garnish those SOBs until they pay her medical bills, a new truck, and pain and suffering. Pretty damn ridiculous that the people of LA have to foot all these lawsuits.

----------


## tod evans

> I would like to see the officers involved in this shooting pay the settlement personally. That's really the only way this is going to change. They need to garnish those SOBs until they pay her medical bills, a new truck, and pain and suffering. Pretty damn ridiculous that the people of LA have to foot all these lawsuits.


^^^^^^^^^^^^This X-100 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

----------


## Danke

> I would like to see the officers involved in this shooting pay the settlement personally. That's really the only way this is going to change. They need to garnish those SOBs until they pay her medical bills, a new truck, and pain and suffering. Pretty damn ridiculous that the people of LA have to foot all these lawsuits.


They should be bonded and have to pay insurance premiums.  Their rates would reflect their behavior just like auto insurance.  Become too big of a risk to get insurance, no longer able to be a cop.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I've been reading his manifesto over and over again. I think he's on the move because his manifesto gives a warning to other agencies and what will happen if he is pulled over. His manifesto clearly says death and destruction will be "HIGH" within the LAPD. The LAPD says they will not leave that Big Bear mountain till they find him. He is not on the mountain - I don't think he ever was because his mother owns land there - BUT if he wanted the entire LAPD to focus on one place - his plan is working.
> 
> I think he's waiting for the weather to suit the LAPD so they put as many LAPD police on that mountain as they can and then he's gonna blow it up. That's what I think. He said "*orphanages will be making a comeback in the 21st century.*" This guy, I think plans on killing alot of people and I honestly don't see how he could accomplish that other than a massive explosion killing as many  as he can that are in one place. He clearly hates the LAPD - sooo
> 
> His manifesto is almost cryptic I think.


With all the time and money he has put into this I would be willing to bet he made himself a good little hiding spot. He probably has food and the essentials. If I had to guess I'd bet he's in the sewer system or near the culverts. There are rooms down there that are hardly, if ever, disturbed.

----------


## AFPVet

> They should be bonded and have to pay insurance premiums.  Their rates would reflect their behavior just like auto insurance.  Become too big of a risk to get insurance, no longer able to be a cop.


In the private security world, that's what security guard companies do... the company pays for the license/insurance and the officers work under that license per agreement with the security company. Law enforcement agencies do it similarly... only their insurance is through the state and it's free to the department obviously. If these departments had to pay for the insurance themselves, we might see a different story.

----------


## MelissaCato

> With all the time and money he has put into this I would be willing to bet he made himself a good little hiding spot. He probably has food and the essentials. If I had to guess I'd bet he's in the sewer system or near the culverts. There are rooms down there that are hardly, if ever, disturbed.


I think he's somewhere monitoring the internets and cable TV because he states in his manifesto *"The attacks will stop when the department states the truth about my innocence, PUBLICLY!!!*" Sewers I'm sure have no reception or cable hookup and I know when I'm at the cabin here in the northern mountains of PA my cell phone doesn't work and no cable TV - actually no electric either that far up.

----------


## sailingaway

> I would like to see the officers involved in this shooting pay the settlement personally. That's really the only way this is going to change. They need to garnish those SOBs until they pay her medical bills, a new truck, and pain and suffering. Pretty damn ridiculous that the people of LA have to foot all these lawsuits.


I think they should be in jail.

----------


## sailingaway

> They should be bonded and have to pay insurance premiums.  Their rates would reflect their behavior just like auto insurance.  Become too big of a risk to get insurance, no longer able to be a cop.


I still think jail is the way to go, but that is more likely doable.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> I think they should be in jail.


Well since that is obviously not going to happen... 


Lol I agree.

----------


## Danke

> I still think jail is the way to go, but that is more likely doable.


Jail can be appropriate.  Depends on the circumstances.

----------


## Carson

> The reporter neglected to report on the release agreement the women where required to sign in order to receive the "donated" truck...
> 
> You know the one that absolves the cops from all responsibility......


The truck story is running on fark under this headline;

*LAPD to give new truck to women shot by officers. So, we're good here, right?*


Article linked there;

http://ktla.com/2013/02/09/deliverin...-lapd-bullets/


Comments;

http://www.fark.com/comments/7584247...ood-here-right

----------


## VoluntaryAmerican

> The truck story is running on fark under this headline;
> 
> *LAPD to give new truck to women shot by officers. So, we're good here, right?*


*Justice? Hell no.
*

----------


## QuickZ06

> Beck has called the incident a tragic misinterpretation by officers working under *incredible tension* hours after Dorner allegedly shot three police officers, one fatally.


They really can just say about anything to get immediately off the hook, too bad if this was a CHL holder they would have already busted out the rope for whoever.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Poor cops losing their day off, but hey, those Grammy Awards need protection.


Yeah, double time or double time and a half.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Yesterday, as a task force of 125 officers, some riding Snowcats in the rugged terrain, continued their search, it was revealed that Dorner has become the first human target for remotely-controlled airborne drones on US soil.




Does that mean they already dropped the lie about not arming drones?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I haven't been following this thread, but surely I'm not the only one who thinks he could have fled the country? I wouldn't be easy for him to do so, but I really wonder if he's even here anymore.


That would be the logical thing to do, but _IF_ the shorter manifesto is legitimate, and legitimately his, then leaving Southern California for any length of time (other than to regroup maybe) does not appear to be in his plans.

----------


## shane77m

> The truck story is running on fark under this headline;
> 
> *LAPD to give new truck to women shot by officers. So, we're good here, right?*
> 
> 
> Article linked there;
> 
> http://ktla.com/2013/02/09/deliverin...-lapd-bullets/
> 
> ...


One of the comments from the Fark page:




> C'mon people, those biatches threw a farking newspaper at the house ....DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS?? We're just lucky they didn't kill every child, puppy and kitten on the block.


LOL

----------


## Demigod

> I've been reading his manifesto over and over again. I think he's on the move because his manifesto gives a warning to other agencies and what will happen if he is pulled over. His manifesto clearly says death and destruction will be "HIGH" within the LAPD. The LAPD says they will not leave that Big Bear mountain till they find him. He is not on the mountain - I don't think he ever was because his mother owns land there - BUT if he wanted the entire LAPD to focus on one place - his plan is working.
> 
> I think he's waiting for the weather to suit the LAPD so they put as many LAPD police on that mountain as they can and then he's gonna blow it up. That's what I think. He said "*orphanages will be making a comeback in the 21st century.*" This guy, I think plans on killing alot of people and I honestly don't see how he could accomplish that other than a massive explosion killing as many  as he can that are in one place. He clearly hates the LAPD - sooo
> 
> His manifesto is almost cryptic I think.


To blow up a mountain is not a real thing unless he has a tactical nuke warhead.Even blowing up a small hill would be feat in it self and almost impossible if he is working alone.First he needs to dig a tunnel under the hill,that is a lot of digging if done by hand ( but OK he had 5 years ) then there is a lot of dirt that he would need to move,then he would need trucks and trucks of explosives ,100-200 000 kg of explosives at least if he has military grade and god knows how much improvised one and how big the hill is ( if there is a army or demolition engineer on this forum maybe he could be more specific with the numbers ) .That is a feat that is very hard to pull unnoticed or pull altogether .

If he really has a Стрела shoulder fired missile launcher ,the smart thing would be to lay low for the next few months and let the heat go down a little.Things should go back to normal as soon as summer comes and vacations start.Then come out and shoot down a police helicopter ( Стрела performs very good against helicopters and he should have no problem taking one out ),or fill a house with explosives and give the cops a tip on it ( after a long period they would be a lot less careful and may rush everything ).After that go back into hiding again ( if he really planned it for years securing 2 places in which he could hide for a couple of months should be no problem),the police in time would bring on them self's the anger of the population by targeting the wrong people and in time it will escalate.

That in my opinion what I would do because you can not go head to head with an enemy who has virtually unlimited resources and win.

----------


## phill4paul

Moar chum in the waters........  I don't give it much credence.

http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...nt-its-not-me/




> (PP)- Christopher Dorner, the former LAPD officer who is accused of murdering three people and threatening to continue his vengeful killings, has issued a statement that claims he has no connection to the Southern California murders, and he is falsely accused.
> 
> The statement was received by a local news organization via fax from a Cabo San Lucas hotel early Saturday.
> 
> “It’s not me!,” Dorner says in the statement. “I have been out of town on vacation and just heard the news that I am blamed for killings I did not and never would commit. This “manifesto” the police are using against me is just a few ideas for a screenplay I am working on with my former colleague Mark Fuhrman. Tell my mom I’m OK. Once again… the cops have it all wrong…. I will soon be in touch.”
> 
> With that news the massive dragnet laid out for the fugitive ex-cop, more than 10,000 officers, abandoned their fruitless search in the snowy, densely forested mountains around Big Bear Lake and moved across the Mexican border, and are headed to Cabo San Lucas at the tip of Baja, California.
> 
> “This could be another one of the crazy gunman’s tricks,” said an off duty security guard. “More than likely he is holed up in a bunker and just sitting in front of a television watching the cops chase their tails. If he believes the cops embarrassed him…. I’l bet he wants to pay them back. He wants them to look like fools.”
> ...

----------


## Danke

> Moar chum in the waters........
> 
> http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013...nt-its-not-me/


lol

----------


## kathy88

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

----------


## TheGrinch

Granted I'm usually in the camp who would not immediately dismiss a conspiracy like that, but claiming that manifesto was for a screenplay? Seriously?

Sounds more like the guy is doing what any person might do in his situation, say whatever he can to maybe save his life (if it's even real, is there even a verifiable source?)

That said, I really wish the guy would get his day in court to air out all of this dirty laundry, but we all know they have no intentions of taking him alive, even if he surrendered.

----------


## phill4paul

> Granted I'm usually in the camp who would not immediately dismiss a conspiracy like that, but claiming that manifesto was for a screenplay? Seriously?
> 
> Sounds more like the guy is doing what any person might do in his situation, say whatever he can to maybe save his life (if it's even real, is there even a verifiable source?)
> 
> That said, I really wish the guy would get his day in court to air out all of this dirty laundry, but we all know they have no intentions of taking him alive, even if he surrendered.


 palooka 
_Slang_ A stupid or clumsy person.

  Ace Cub Reporter Jimmy *Olsentwins*

----------


## kathy88

> palooka 
> _Slang_ A stupid or clumsy person.
> 
>   Ace Cub Reporter Jimmy *Olsentwins*


You should have left it alone. I was really looking forward to further response.

----------


## TheGrinch

> palooka 
> _Slang_ A stupid or clumsy person.
> 
>   Ace Cub Reporter Jimmy *Olsentwins*


So it's supposed to be satire? Because it didn't seem very satirical, like say the Onion.

----------


## phill4paul

> So it's supposed to be satire? Because it didn't seem very satirical, like say the Onion.


  As I prefaced.....just.... Moar chum for the waters.

----------


## pcosmar

> Moar chum in the waters........  I don't give it much credence.


More like muddying  the waters,,
In case he ever does get a chance to tell his side.



.

----------


## phill4paul

> More like muddying  the waters,,
> In case he ever does get a chance to tell his side.
> 
> 
> 
> .


  I honestly do not think that will ever happen. Given the fusillades directed on anything that resembles his or his possessions countenance. This case, like many others, will not see a courtroom.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> So it's supposed to be satire? Because it didn't seem very satirical, like say the Onion.


I liked the description I saw, like the Onion but without the humor.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Looks like they set a bounty of $1Million, (both public and private funds):

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...inues/1906999/




> LOS ANGELES -- City officials offered a $1 million reward Sunday for information leading to the capture of fugitive ex-cop Christopher Dorner, accusing him of "domestic terrorism'' in targeting law enforcement officers and their families.
> 
> Police Chief Charlie Beck said the reward was the largest ever offered in Southern California and includes contributions from businesses and private individuals as well as public funds. Dorner has been accused by police of the shooting deaths of three people, one of them a police officer and another the daughter of a former officer.
> 
> ...

----------


## TheGrinch

> I liked the description I saw, like the Onion but without the humor.


Would you care to fill me in on the purpose of the satire, because it looked more to me like misinformation to fool the gullible and make them look like fools for believing it.

----------


## TheTexan

What's on the DVD that he sent to CNN?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Would you care to fill me in on the purpose of the satire, because it looked more to me like misinformation to fool the gullible and make them look like fools for believing it.


I see no purpose in it whatsoever, so I am unlikely to be of any help there.

ETA - I dunno, trying to prove Poe's Law maybe?

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

i hope the guy gets captured alive so we can hear his side of the story. but he will most likely get gunned down without question or he escapes and dissappears.

like cops say, you hear the plantiffs and the defendants story and piece together the story to get the whole picture.

----------


## cjm

> Would you care to fill me in on the purpose of the satire, because it looked more to me like misinformation to fool the gullible and make them look like fools for believing it.


If you re-read the last paragraph, it looks to me like he's mocking the MSM and their rush to put out any story that shocks and scares people, even if it's just rumor.

In addition to the last name Olsentwins, note that Jimmy Olsen works at the Daily Planet with Clark Kent (Superman), and a cub reporter is an apprentice whereas an ace reporter is a veteran reporter -- so you cannot have an "ace cub reporter."

"Ace Cub Reporter Jimmy Olsentwins" was not intending to fool anyone.  But I can see that if someone didn't know the pop-culture references, it might pass for a real story.  I have an email schtick that I use with friends from time to time called "Federal Government Out-Onions The Onion."  It can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between satire and real news these days.

----------


## phill4paul

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Terrorist-quot

"Why so large?'' Beck said. "*This is an act, and make no mistake about it, of domestic terrorism.*"

  The lines are drawn. To speak in his defense, or to question, is "aiding and abetting."

----------


## presence

On the subject of satire...



> The Los Angeles Police Department is one of the most famous and admired police forces in the world.
> []
> The LAPD has long set a standard of excellence for police training and performance.


http://www.joinlapd.com/about.html

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> On the subject of satire...
> 
> http://www.joinlapd.com/about.html


LOL. +Rep

----------


## sailingaway

this just came across twitter:  Chris Dorner v. LAPD: The court case file

Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.c...#ixzz2KYnlgCcp 
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter

----------


## noneedtoaggress

A sighting was called in to a Lowe's, they wouldn't allow people to leave with their cars:

http://lajolla.patch.com/articles/re...orthridge-mall

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...orthridge.html

Turns out:




> Andrew Blankstein, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times, tweeted at 7:09 p.m.: The Lowe's incident is a "Code 4" ie non event, #LAPD sources say. Was a husband [and] wife dispute. There's your "asymmetrical" warfare. #LAPD

----------


## DGambler

LAPD Chief to reopen case that got Donner fired: http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...s-termination/

----------


## sailingaway

> Christopher Dorner Manhunt: Possible Sighting of Fugitive Ex-Cop Leads to Store Evacuation
> 
> A Northridge, Calif., home improvement store was evacuated tonight because of a possible sighting of suspected cop-killer Christopher Dorner, just hours after police announced a $1 million reward for information leading to his arrest.
> 
> As helicopters hovered overhead and a command center was established, police searched the Lowe's store and eventually told shoppers they could leave, but could not take their cars out of the parking lot.
> 
> LAPD spokesman Gus Villanueva said the major response to the possible sighting was a precaution, but couldn't say whether Dorner was in the area.
> 
> The announcement of the $1 million reward today came as authorities in Big Bear, Calif., scaled back their search for Dorner, the disgruntled ex-cop who is suspected in three revenge killings.
> ...


more, and news video at link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/christopher...ry?id=18457978

----------


## sailingaway

New, off twitter:

*Kelsey Duckett ‏@KelseyDuckett
JUST IN: 'Don't Shoot! I'm NOT DORNER!!' Bumper Stickers Hit eBay. #Dorner*

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> New, off twitter:
> 
> *Kelsey Duckett ‏@KelseyDuckett
> JUST IN: 'Don't Shoot! I'm NOT DORNER!!' Bumper Stickers Hit eBay. #Dorner*

----------


## AGRP

> "This is the largest local reward ever offered, to our knowledge," Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck said at a news conference today. "This is an act of domestic terrorism. This is a man who has targeted those that we entrust to protect the public. His actions cannot go unanswered."


Is it because the lives of officers are more valuable than non-officers?

----------


## sailingaway

> Is it because the lives of officers are more valuable than non-officers?


can't you tell by the holes in all the civilian non-Dorner trucks?

----------


## AGRP

Why aren't serial killers identified as "domestic terrorists?"

----------


## pacodever

> this just came across twitter:  Chris Dorner v. LAPD: The court case file
> 
> Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.c...#ixzz2KYnlgCcp 
> Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter


Tedious read but great comments and analysis at the end.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Why don't serial killers have million dollar bounties?

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> Tedious read but great comments and analysis at the end.


There's an uncensored version of this floating around. I saw it several days ago...

Found it:

http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013...apd-case-file/

----------


## TheGrinch

> Why aren't serial killers identified as "domestic terrorists?"


Sadly, the only standard for terrorist anymore seems to be anyone who opposes the transgressions of the government. 

Seems like all the term is used for nowadays is an excuse for excessive force and a good pissing on the constitution.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

I wonder why it is that they've released pictures of the bullet-ridden coin all over the place, making sure to expound how frightening it was and bringing his old chief on to talk about it, but haven't shown what's on the disc.

Hmmmm...

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Looks like this probably the video on the DVD.

----------


## shane77m



----------


## HOLLYWOOD

The growing sentiment for Dorner... has been lashed out by corporate MSMedia, I think there's another reason WHY...

There is frustration because of LAPD cops terrorizing motorists/citizens... that's on top of the fraud/corruption, which goes all the way up to the mayor. So let's reflect an observation made by Adam Corrolla about the LAPD/Mayor.


VIDEO: http://vimeo.com/9056430

----------


## torchbearer

A lil info I found-



> The judge in the lower court case making the decision that was appealed, was one David P. Yaffe. And who is he? He's the same judge who put elderly attorney Richard Fine in solitary confinement for one and a half years for daring to protest the corruption of the entire Los Angeles judicial system. He was finally released last year.
> 
> Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.c...#ixzz2KcGsNBvC
> Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter

----------


## presence

Don't Shoot I'm NOT DORNER!!   Bumper sticker




> New, off twitter:
> 
> *Kelsey Duckett ‏@KelseyDuckett
> JUST IN: 'Don't Shoot! I'm NOT DORNER!!' Bumper Stickers Hit eBay. #Dorner*

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Don't Shoot I'm NOT DORNER!!   Bumper sticker


Real Time gallows humor.

----------


## phill4paul

> Real Time gallows humor.


  Along with Grateful Dead and "Legalize It" stickers this sounds like a good way to get $#@!ed with.

----------


## Gideon

> A lil info I found-The judge in the lower court case making the decision that was appealed, was one David P. Yaffe. And who is he? He's the same judge who put elderly attorney Richard Fine in solitary confinement for one and a half years for daring to protest the corruption of the entire Los Angeles judicial system. He was finally released last year.


The key players of the Beast system are a rather small, but elite group. Even if Judge Yaffe didn't make the "hit List," I would conjecture that he now has his own personal 24x7 security team.

Meanwhile, California's legislators, themselves protected by armed security, want to further encroach upon my individual right to protect myself from rogue, tyrannical legislators and their heavily armed enforcers.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Don't Shoot I'm NOT DORNER!!   Bumper sticker


Some things I really don't know how I didn't think of them first..

----------


## kathy88

> Along with Grateful Dead and "Legalize It" stickers this sounds like a good way to get $#@!ed with.


I used to sport a "bad cop no donut" sticker on my VW bus....

----------


## phill4paul

> I used to sport a "bad cop no donut" sticker on my VW bus....


  Lol. I've known many V.W. bus owners. If anything else I would rather get stuck behind one in traffic just for the reading material.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> I used to sport a "bad cop no donut" sticker on my VW bus....



Yeah, but you were probably parked inside the concert grounds most of the time.

----------


## TheGrinch

> I used to sport a "bad cop no donut" sticker on my VW bus....


You're braver than I, but I lived in an area where teenagers were treated the way cops treat minorities, because they had nothing better to do than milk our parents for money... That's why I always kept my Dead and other stickers on my roof-rack fairing, and not on the back of the car.

Though after getting picked up by the police for jay-walking when I was skate-baording (in a neighborhood, where his car was nowhere near when I crossed, I $#@! you not), I got a "I  Cops" shirt, and it actually got my mom out of a ticket because the cop didn't get the joke.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

i wonder what alex jones thinks of this...

----------


## fisharmor

> i wonder what alex jones thinks of this...


I wonder what Piers Morgan things of this.

----------


## kathy88

> Lol. I've known many V.W. bus owners. If anything else I would rather get stuck behind one in traffic just for the reading material.


I had a giant band aid bumpersticker over a rust spot. 
"Imagine whirled peas"
"who are the Grateful dead and why do they keep following me"
you get the idea....
Never got pulled over.

----------


## phill4paul

> I had a giant band aid bumpersticker over a rust spot. 
> "Imagine whirled peas"
> "who are the Grateful dead and why do they keep following me"
> you get the idea....
> Never got pulled over.


  The Dead Heads I knew never mentioned being hassled much either. I got pulled one time just for having waist length hair in a van without any stickers though. Lol. Guess we should stop derailing.............

----------


## Anti Federalist

Posted at zerohedge:


*Say What Again* 

I'm going to paint the following on the roof.

*He went----->

that way ----->*

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...le-los-angeles

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

http://www.amazon.com/L-A-Secret-Pol.../dp/0671796577







> *L.A. Secret Police. Inside the LAPD Elite Spy Division* is a New York  Times Bestseller.
> 
>  This incredible non-fiction book rips the lid off the  LAPD and exposes the reader to its dark underbelly of corruption during  the reign of Chief Daryl Gates.* LA cops ruined lives and reputations,  inflicted mindless brutality, committed murder and engaged in massive  cover-ups.* In Los Angeles, police corruption was much more than unmarked  envelopes stuffed with cash. *It was a total corruption of power.* LAPD  engaged in massive illegal spying. Its spying targets included  politicians, movie stars, professional athletes, news reporters and  anyone wielding power or those of interest to Daryl Gates. It all  happened in Los Angeles. See why this book changed the LAPD and is  required reading at many universities. As former Assistant United States  Attorney Marvin Rudnick said, “Rothmiller was in a position to know. He  did very sensitive work.”

----------


## Danke

I keep thinking about the film, "LA Story."

----------


## Bruno

> http://www.amazon.com/L-A-Secret-Pol.../dp/0671796577


"Casual drug (marijuana) users should be taken out and shot" 
- Darryl Gates Head of Los Angeles Police Department United States Senate Judiciary Committee (1990)

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> "Casual drug (marijuana) users should be taken out and shot" 
> - Darryl Gates Head of Los Angeles Police Department United States Senate Judiciary Committee (1990)


Operation Hammer

"This is war.."

[Hat tip to AF for the second link]

----------


## devil21

I keep thinking about this clip from the 80's.  Watch entire video for big picture.

----------


## noneedtoaggress

Some black exLAPD cop came out with another "manifesto" supporting Dorner's charges of corruption and spoke with FoxLA

VIDEO:
http://www.myfoxla.com/story/2113134...ites-manifesto

If you really want to see a rambling "manifesto" here's this guys:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/125027919/Joe-Jones-Manifesto

----------


## tod evans

This won't get any traction.....

The propaganda arm may not speak evil of the enforcement arm....





> Some black exLAPD cop came out with another "manifesto" supporting Dorner's charges of corruption and spoke with FoxLA
> 
> VIDEO:
> http://www.myfoxla.com/story/2113134...ites-manifesto
> 
> If you really want to see a rambling "manifesto" here's this guys:
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/125027919/Joe-Jones-Manifesto

----------


## bolil

Dorner, if racism was such a presence in society would you really be on the cusp of becoming a Dillinger esque hero?

----------


## noneedtoaggress

> This won't get any traction.....
> 
> The propaganda arm may not speak evil of the enforcement arm....


Considering his writing doesn't seem entirely cogent and he's clearly not comfortable going into depth or exposing himself too much I don't think he's going to help that anyway...

----------


## noneedtoaggress



----------


## GunnyFreedom

needs Smedley Butler

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> "Casual drug (marijuana) users should be taken out and shot" 
> - Darryl Gates Head of Los Angeles Police Department United States Senate Judiciary Committee (1990)


What's amazing is a simply video recording of LAPD beating a black man on the street, brought down a tyrant and his 15 years of rights violations, graft, racketeering, corruption, and even murder.

The reason 'THE STATE' doesn't want anyone videotaping LE or government in their actions.


PS: Talked to a friend that's in the LAPD... it's government bureaucracy at it's worse from the bottom to the top. The inner circle of THIN BLUE LINE laws.  He was driving a cruiser, and the brakes failed, smashed the front of the LAPD vehicle. Looking at the motorpool service reports, that department screwed-up and forgot to service the vehicle's brakes/etc which was years overdue. He was told not to bring up the failure of that department, if he was going to have a career in the LAPD.

----------


## SeanTX

Now it's being reported that Dorner was just involved in a shootout near Big Bear

http://www.bigbearscanner.com/

----------


## tasteless

Here's the local news station feed that says he was in a shootout

http://ktla.com/live/#axzz2Khge841v

----------


## devil21

link to text report of shootout claim

http://ktla.com/2013/02/12/breaking-...#axzz2Kirar8Qa

----------


## phill4paul

Shouldn't have flushed. If they are on to him I don't believe he will make it out alive.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

Two more cops confirmed shot. Possibly Fish and Game.

----------


## AFPVet

He probably set a trap for them... he has their tactics.

----------


## DrHendricks

It sounds like the local cops got the place surrounded and are containing. From what I heard over the stream, they are awaiting the big guns to arrive.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> It sounds like the local cops got the place surrounded and are containing. From what I heard over the stream, they are awaiting the big guns to arrive.

----------


## DrHendricks

20 LA swat just landed in the area.

----------


## DrHendricks

> 


Go big or go home I guess...

----------


## green73

> It sounds like the local cops got the place surrounded and are containing. From what I heard over the stream, they are awaiting the big guns to arrive.


Drone?

----------


## kcchiefs6465



----------


## coastie

Does he have hostages, or is he alone? 


HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAALMAO

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/live-video/ just got prank called live about this, lolololol.


caller: "You're a dumbass, you still don't realize this is a pra...." then cut him off, lmao.

----------


## green73

OMG, major prank caller on CBS

----------


## DrHendricks

They just told the media to cut their feed.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

And now:

----------


## noneedtoaggress

what was the prank?

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> OMG, major prank caller on CBS


LMAO. "Ronnie the limo driver"
He should have kept it going.

----------


## tasteless

Ronnie the Limo Driver for president 2016!

----------


## coastie

> LMAO. "Ronnie the limo driver"
> He should have kept it going.


">>>was on his way to a block party" then, "you're a dumbass, you still don't realize this is a prank?" then cut him off

----------


## kcchiefs6465

// See above post

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> ">>>was on his way to a block party" then, "you're a dumbass, you still don't realize this is a prank?" then cut him off


How she did not get it and asked him twice who Ronnie the limo driver was is beyond me. Some people are gullible af.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

"Hey you, come here."
"Me?"
"Yeah"
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM....

----------


## coastie

> How she did not get it and asked him twice who Ronnie the limo driver was is beyond me. Some people are gullible af.



Easy...he had me going, too, lol. Although, I was like "WTF, a limo driver?" ,lol.

----------


## coastie

Hmm, thought I hear automatic gunfire in there....

----------


## DrHendricks

The units on the ground can't figure out which house he's in. The guys in the air know exactly what house he's in but can't seem to get it across to the units on the ground.

----------


## coastie

> The units on the ground can't figure out which house he's in. The guys in the air know exactly what house he's in but can't seem to get it across the units on the ground.


Jackasses, no surprise they were shooting anything that had a pick-up bed on it earlier in the week.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Easy...he had me going, too, lol. Although, I was like "WTF, a limo driver?" ,lol.


Lol. As soon as he said block party I lost it. The reporter was too thirsty for that interview. A real troll would have kept it going a lot longer. It had potential.

----------


## dannno

> The units on the ground can't figure out which house he's in. The guys in the air know exactly what house he's in but can't seem to get it across to the units on the ground.


Anything to do with this?




> Status: 8-MTN-1, 8-MTN-2 have been taken off the scanner to ensure officer safety during the manhunt.

----------


## coastie

> Lol. As soon as he said block party I lost it. The reporter was too thirsty for that interview. A real troll would have kept it going a lot longer. It had potential.


Yeah it did, he gave in entirely too quick, should've thought it out a little longer before calling, lol.

----------


## DrHendricks

> Anything to do with this?


Idk. Every 2 minutes somebody jumps on the feed and asks which house it is. And the guy in the air will fumble around, "east, has a chimney" and then the guy on the ground still has no idea.

----------


## Carson

Live update.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...190902721.html

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/live-video/

----------


## DaninPA

> Live update.
> 
> http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...190902721.html



OMG...

"Dorner is believed to have an arsenal of weapons that includes a semi-automatic rifle."

Poor Swat cops!

----------


## seapilot

Does not look like his planning was too good unless this is some sort of trap.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Reports on his burned out vehicle said that the axle was broken (not sure if that was before or after it burned though)- probably didn't plan on that.  That might have forced him to stay in that area. Sounds like he was breaking into cabins to survive.

----------


## alucard13mmfmj

> Reports on his burned out vehicle said that the axle was broken (not sure if that was before or after it burned though)- probably didn't plan on that.  That might have forced him to stay in that area. Sounds like he was breaking into cabins to survive.


why did he burn it.. that'll get attention. i'd probably drive it off into a secluded ravine  or into a river.

 seems like a big mistake for him.

----------


## pcosmar

Prayers for Dorner,,or whoever is a victim of this response.

----------


## Zippyjuan

to possibly try to destroy/ cover up something?  Certainly drew attention to it.

----------


## torchbearer

> to possibly try to destroy/ cover up something? Certainly drew attention to it.


the evidence is his truck, a big foot print he let glow for all to see.
it only makes sense as a diversion.
no one goes out of their way to call about a broke down vehicle. but one on fire will get someone's attention.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Just heard on the live stream that the reason they found the burned out truck was that they were going to keep an eye on the house of a friend of Dorner who lived in the area and came across it.

Yeah- could have been a diversion.  Or made to look like a diversion.

----------


## DrHendricks

> Just heard on the live stream that the reason they found the burned out truck was that they were going to keep an eye on the house of a friend of Dorner who lived in the area and came across it.
> 
> Yeah- could have been a diversion.  Or made to look like a diversion.


What stream are you using? Mine's been really quiet all the sudden.

----------


## Zippyjuan

I have been listening here http://www.clarionledger.com/viewart...ties-Big-Bear- Sometimes I have to hit play again to re-start it.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

The reporters have no idea what they are talking about.

LAPD is trying and failing to set up a smoke screen to conceal their movements.  They weren't counting on the amount of wind.

----------


## Danke

Cabin on fire, another Waco.

----------


## torchbearer

> The reporters have no idea what they are talking about.
> 
> LAPD is trying and failing to set up a smoke screen to conceal their movements. They weren't counting on the amount of wind.


lulz. they could wait for night fall. unless they think he has night vision.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

the place they thought he was is now engulfed in flames

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> lulz. they could wait for night fall. unless they think he has night vision.


Of course he has NVG.  if he was a prepper and had more than one Barrett .50 you know he had NVG.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Cabin on fire, another Waco.


serious echoes of Waco here.  Tear gas tear gas place catches on fire, nobody runs out.

ETA: that pretty much nails the coffin on these rounds.  either the CS is incendiary enough, or they are also launching actual incendiaries.

----------


## Reason

So, the cabin is burning to the ground and some cops keep asking to send the fire dept in and the supervisors keep denying it...

One supervisor just claimed that "ammo is still popping off" so it's not safe to send the fire dept in...

THERE IS NO DANGER FROM AMMO IN A FIRE, THIS HAS BEEN DEBUNKED A MILLION TIMES.

THE BRASS JUST BLOWS AND THE BULLET ITSELF DOESN'T GO MORE THAN A FEW FEET IN THE AIR.

*THEY WANT THE FIRE TO BURN.*

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Public safety who cares?  Officer safety you betcha!

-> this is genuinely new from 2006-7-on.  see "Circular Force Continuum" and

MIAC Report (page 7, with the flags)
Contemporary Press

DHS Fusion Centers Wiki At a Location Near You
Scrubbed the names from MIAC and made it look more official.

NBC News October 2012




> Official DHS site:
> 
> What Fusion Centers Do
> 
> Fusion centers contribute to the Information Sharing Environment (ISE) through their role in receiving threat information from the federal government; analyzing that information in the context of their local environment; disseminating that information to local agencies; and gathering tips, leads, and suspicious activity reporting (SAR) from local agencies and the public. Fusion centers receive information from a variety of sources, including SAR from stakeholders within their jurisdictions, as well as federal information and intelligence. They analyze the information and develop relevant products to disseminate to their customers. These products assist homeland security partners at all levels of government to identify and address immediate and emerging threats.
> 
> Beyond serving as a focal point for information sharing, fusion centers add significant value to their customers by providing a state and local context to help enhance the national threat picture. Fusion centers provide the federal government with critical state and local information and subject matter expertise that it did not receive in the past  enabling the effective communication of locally generated threat‐related information to the federal government. Integrating and connecting these state and local resources creates a national capacity to gather, process, analyze, and share information in support of efforts to protect the country.
> 
> Our nation faces an evolving threat environment, in which threats not only emanate from outside our borders, but also from within our communities. This new environment demonstrates the increasingly critical role fusion centers play to support the sharing of threat-related information between the federal government and SLTT partners.


aaaand, it's just coming out now but look:




> "Our department went with a Circular force Continuum rather than the traditional Ladder version. Meaning, if the officer is in the middle, he/she can move to whatever force is needed at the time, within the Laws of the State mind you.
> 
> "I carry a Glock 22 .40 on me. I have a Rem 870 Shotgun and carry a full auto M-16 in my trunk. (Firearms instructing has its perks)
> Yes I have been tased several times. It sucks, it hurts, it does its job.
> 
> 
> "I think officers should be tased before carrying a taser, so that they will know what its like and not to abuse it.
> I have never been in a gunfight and I hope that I will never be in one. But I train and think about it everyday."
> 
> http://nl.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments...k_me_anything/


When you train police to treat homeland security like a war zone, why are you surprised when they start acting like occupying soldiers?  It's the natural outcome of the proscribed doctrine.  I can only imagine that this is as bad for our officers as it is for us.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Fusion Centers because that's where the CFC is coming from.  That's where the 'homeland as a warzone' doctrine is coming from.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

The Department of Homeland Security has turned the homeland into a warzone

that seems to be where they know how to operate best.

----------


## torchbearer

> Fusion Centers because that's where the CFC is coming from. That's where the 'homeland as a warzone' doctrine is coming from.



and I'm just a nutter for bringing out the fact that DHS has offices staffed at our 911/emergency centers as information gatherers for the white house.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Fusion Centers because that's where the CFC is coming from.  That's where the 'homeland as a warzone' doctrine is coming from.





> The Department of Homeland Security has turned the homeland into a warzone
> 
> that seems to be where they know how to operate best.


/thread

/comments

/debate

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> and I'm just a nutter for bringing out the fact that DHS has offices staffed at our 911/emergency centers as information gatherers for the white house.


entirely not surprised, except why staff it when you can just monitor it from 2000 miles away?  One well trained clerk could electronically monitor four to eight (setup depending) 911 centers for whatever each clerk at half the cost of a field agent.  And do it 24/7 instead of "whenever the guy happens to be awake."  I mean WTH really?  Not only are we going to piss on your constitution, we are going to be blatantly stupid about it too.  That's the bit I don't get.  Well, I get it, it just makes me SMH like it's the end of the world.

----------


## torchbearer

> entirely not surprised, except why staff it when you can just monitor it from 2000 miles away? One well trained clerk could electronically monitor four to eight (setup depending) 911 centers for whatever each clerk at half the cost of a field agent. And do it 24/7 instead of "whenever the guy happens to be awake." I mean WTH really? Not only are we going to piss on your constitution, we are going to be blatantly stupid about it too. That's the bit I don't get. Well, I get it, it just makes me SMH like it's the end of the world.



what is the purpose of having one field agent and sec. in each county to begin with?
They could have setup a call center, hire someone to teach the sheriff departments about the call center. If the sheriff thinks he needs help from beyond the state(for what reason, i can't think), he could contact the feds through the call center.
but no, they needed eyes on the ground.. 
a physical spy to see what is going on, because in places like Vernon Parish, paper filing cabinets are still the prefered data storage method.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> The Department of Homeland Security has turned the homeland into a warzone
> 
> that seems to be where they know how to operate best.


They're creating the partnership programs... If you look at the latest budget... $45+ Billion of Janet's budget is discretionary not mandatory. They buy off local agencies and create the terror centers. Without getting into the illegal nonsense put of the CONUS.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> They're creating the partnership programs... If you look at the latest budget... $45+ Billion of Janet's budget is discretionary not mandatory. They buy off local agencies and create the terror centers. Without getting into the illegal nonsense put of the CONUS.


yeah, it's done by money rather than statute or regulation.  That's still a blatant violation of Constitutional intent.  "we will buy your compliance with the money we took from you at gunpoint" is no different from "you will comply at gunpoint" when the person getting bought is someone other than us.  It's effectively the same.  Blatant unconstitutional tyranny it is.

ETA: 'other than us' meaning at least if you are the one getting bought you get to make a moral choice whether to sell out.  That's voluntary.  For the rest of us it's dictionary-definition tyranny.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Yeah, remember this guy?

Bump for current events...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...aw-Enforcement

----------


## Occam's Banana

https://twitter.com/seam_plz/status/1458924930259636227

----------

