# News & Current Events > World News & Affairs >  Was it necessary for US to get involved in WWII?

## nicholascoppola

I guess not since Russia started pushing them back by the time we got involved.  But lets say Russia surrendered and Germany was able to take over England.  I guess you could argue that the empire would eventually collapse but was it necessary to protect our ally England?  If an allied nation is under attack, do we have an obligation to protect them?

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## Truth Warrior

*Only if we really cared about which of the socialist brothers won their petty squabble over and for power and control.*

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## Conza88

No.

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## Truth Warrior

*War is a Racket*
*By General Smedley D. Butler*
*http://www.wanttoknow.info/warisaracket*

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## acptulsa

Well, it's an interesting question.  You seem overly focused on Europe.  Germany overran France, and France had been (and still is, imo--but then I would never denegrate a friend for trying to get ahold of the car keys of a drunken buddy) our greatest and most dependable ally since the nation was founded.  So, well, that didn't make it our problem but at the same time allies are nice to have when your own nation is threatened...

But, of course, once Pearl Harbor happened we were in the war.  Necessity had nothing to do with it at that point; we were in the war.  So, I guess what you're asking is, was it necessary for us and the Japanese to spend the entire twenty years between WWI and WWII locking horns over which nation was to operate an empire in the Pacific?  No, but I do like to flatter us by thinking that the Filipinos found us to be less oppressive overlords than the Japanese would have been...

For what that's worth.

Basically, I don't think the Axis would have stopped without _being_ stopped, and I think we were far better off not waiting until they felt strong enough to come looking for us.  But that is the conventional wisdom, and (obviously) I sure can't prove any of it.

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## Brown Sapper

We had an obligation to kick Japan's ass for bombing Pearl Harbor, even though our oil and steel sanctions pretty much forced them to attack us. As for Germany our secret supply to England is what drew us in the Western Front.  The MIC supplied so much goods to the Allies that it was in their best interest to make sure that we got in the war to protect our investments.  This is why I get so pissed when people say that our non-interventionism is what caused the rise of Hitler, but if we had genuinely practiced it, it would have not ended up on our shores.

Morally, we had to go in.  They we killing millions of innocent Jews.  That was the deal-breaker right there.  Crimes of humanity shouldn't be tolerated, but I don't understand how could Hitler become so powerful that he can sentence so many people to death without any of his followers questioning him.  He had no opposition or (thinking of a better word) devil's advocate.

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## Truth Warrior

*FDR was just really itching and scratching to find some way to enrage the American people and to save Uncle Joe.* 

*Pearl Harbor was an inside job!*

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## manny229

Should we have been involved in WWI?   Would there have been a WWII if we had stayed out of WWI?

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## acptulsa

> Morally, we had to go in.  They we killing millions of innocent Jews.


A reliable and convenient justification, yes--but we did not know the extent of what he was doing until about 1945.

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## heavenlyboy34

IMHO, no, it wasn't necessary.

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## Truth Warrior

> Should we have been involved in WWI? Would there have been a WWII if we had stayed out of WWI?


 *I think not, nor would there have been a Hitler and perhaps even not a USSR.<IMHO>*

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## Aratus

purple codes. code breaking. the poetry translated. pearl harbor.

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## acptulsa

> *I think not, nor would there have been a Hitler and perhaps even not a USSR.<IMHO>*


How the _hell_ did our involvement in WWI encourage the Russian Revolution?  Didn't it happen almost before we even declared war, and wasn't it pretty much over by the time our first troops landed 'over there'?

As for Hitler, _obviously_ there would have been a Hitler considering the paper hanger was a corporal in the Kaiser's army at the time.  As for his rise to power, well, it was our buddies the French who inserted all those oppressive clauses in the Treaty of Versailles.  Therefore, the only way I see our lack of involvement in WWI preventing Hitler's rise to power is if we really were decisive and our lack of involvement guaranteed the kaiser victory.




> purple codes. code breaking. the poetry translated. pearl harbor.


Yup.  Pearl was _not_ an inside job.  The suggestion is preposterous.  The only question is, were our ducks sitting when it happened because of incompetence or by design?  I don't think we'll ever get a definitive answer to that one.

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## Aratus

WWI  is the ceasing of the social compact by the victors over
Napoleon Buenoparte who truely are and were the long peace 
thereafter, this understanding breaks apart. Concert of Europe... 
diplomacy. end of an era. the Victorian era... WWII stems from WWI

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## Aratus

acptulsa, if it took until the 1990s for kimmel and short to be cleared,
and part of this was the breaking of the axis codes... yes, i agree!!!

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## Truth Warrior

> How the _hell_ did our involvement in WWI encourage the Russian Revolution? Didn't it happen almost before we even declared war, and wasn't it pretty much over by the time our first troops landed 'over there'?
> 
> As for Hitler, _obviously_ there would have been a Hitler considering the paper hanger was a corporal in the Kaiser's army at the time. As for his rise to power, well, it was our buddies the French who inserted all those oppressive clauses in the Treaty of Versailles. Therefore, the only way I see our lack of involvement in WWI preventing Hitler's rise to power is if we really were decisive and our lack of involvement guaranteed the kaiser victory.


*It's NOT MY job to educate you. That's YOUR job.<IMHO>*

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## Aratus

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p250_Merson.html the eternal "FROM HERE TO ETERNITY" debate...

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## acptulsa

> *It's NOT MY job to educate you. That's YOUR job.<IMHO>*


Obviously it's my job to educate you.  

Yes, I'm aware of Wall Street's involvement with Stalin.  That really isn't the same thing as our involvement in the war.  Related, but not the same thing.  One may have depended upon the other for success; the October Revolution may not have happened if the Czar wasn't forced to rape his own people in order to maintain the war and his own lifestyle simultaneously, but Wall Street's involvement in that is not the same as the Marines' involvement in Belleau Wood.

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## Aratus

Truth Warrior, the train that lets Lenin ride thru Kaiser Wilhelm's turf precedes the October Revolution... the events of the great war.... Lenin once rode on this here train! curiously, after the war, the war of the cousins, the Kaiser leaves his throne...

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## Truth Warrior

> Truth Warrior, the train that lets Lenin ride thru Kaiser Wilhelm's turf precedes the October Revolution... the events of the great war.... Lenin once rode on this here train! curiously, after the war, the war of the cousins, the Kaiser leaves his throne...


 *Who financed it?* 

*"If you want to understand, what's REALLY going on, just follow the money!"*

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## acptulsa

> Truth Warrior, the train that lets Lenin ride thru Kaiser Wilhelm's turf precedes the October Revolution... the events of the great war.... Lenin once rode on this here train! curiously, after the war, the war of the cousins, the Kaiser leaves his throne...


The other cousin--Nicholas, specifically--also left his throne, and just as permenantly.  But not by his own hand...

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## Aratus

folks also debate had the Kaiser NOT let Lenin have this free ride all the way 
to the border... would he have kept his throne longer, anyway...??? this also is up there with the marlowe and/or shakespeare and the francis bacon/will shakespeare debate...

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## Truth Warrior

> Obviously it's my job to educate you. 
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of Wall Street's involvement with Stalin. That really isn't the same thing as our involvement in the war. Related, but not the same thing. One may have depended upon the other for success; the October Revolution may not have happened if the Czar wasn't forced to rape his own people in order to maintain the war and his own lifestyle simultaneously, but Wall Street's involvement in that is not the same as the Marines' involvement in Belleau Wood.


 *Only in your dreams. *

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## Aratus

incidently, my reference to kimmel & short is not to jimmy kimmel and martin short...

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## acptulsa

> *Only in your dreams. *


Wall Street playing with Russia is not the same as the Marines pulling off impossible missions in France and Belgium only in my dreams?

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## Aratus

you do know that woodrow wilson was impelled into a war in a manner sorta like the way 
bill mckinley is nudged into that excursion he is remembered for? i remember the maine...

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## acptulsa

> you do know that woodrow wilson was impelled into a war in a manner sorta like the way 
> bill mckinley is nudged into that excursion he is remembered for? i remember the maine...


Damn, woman!  You're a hundred and _how many_ years old--_and_ willing to admit it?!



Probably the most overrated predreadnought armored cruiser ever...

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## Aratus

WWI is the "fail' of the CONGRESS of VIENNA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_of_Europe

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## Aratus

> Damn, woman!  You're a hundred and _how many_ years old--_and_ willing to admit it?!



not quite. my great uncle dies on the vessel BEFORE the ship goes into havana harbor...

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## Aratus

its his shipmates who die in the harbor... family story...

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## acptulsa

> WWI is the "fail' of the CONGRESS of VIENNA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_of_Europe


And WWII is the failure of the Treaty of Versailles.  Unless you're Nobel, Krupp, Curtis Aircraft or some other arms merchant of death, of course.  In that case, both were great successes.

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