# Lifestyles & Discussion > Peace Through Religion >  The Raising up to Life of Lazarus

## TER

Saturday of the Holy and Righteous Friend of Christ, Lazarus

_Introduction_

On the Saturday before Holy Week, the Orthodox Church commemorates a major feast of the year, the miracle of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ when he raised Lazarus from the dead after he had lain in the grave four days. Here, at the end of Great Lent and the forty days of fasting and penitence, the Church combines this celebration with that of Palm Sunday. In triumph and joy the Church bears witness to the power of Christ over death and exalts Him as King before entering the most solemn week of the year, one that leads the faithful in remembrance of His suffering and death and concludes with the great and glorious Feast of Pascha.



Icon of the Raising of Lazarus
_Biblical Story_

The story of the raising of Lazarus from the dead by Jesus Christ is found in the Gospel of John 11:1-45. Lazarus becomes ill, and his sisters, Mary and Martha send a message to Jesus stating, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.” In response to the message, Jesus says, “This illness does not lead to death; rather it is for God’s glory, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it” (vv. 1-4).

Jesus did not immediately go to Bethany, the town where Lazarus lived with his sisters. Instead He remained in the place where He was staying for two more days. After this time, He told his disciples that they were returning to Judea. The disciples immediately expressed their concern, stating that the Jews there had recently tried to stone Him (John 10:31). Jesus replied to His disciples, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Those who walk during the day do not stumble, because they see the light of this world. But those who walk at night stumble, because the light is not in them” (vv. 5-10).

After He said this, Jesus told his disciples that Lazarus had fallen asleep and that He was going there to wake him. The disciples wondered why He would go to wake Lazarus, since it was good for him to sleep if he was ill. Jesus, however, was referring to the death of Lazarus, and thus told the disciples directly that Lazarus was dead (vv. 11-14).

When Jesus arrived at Bethany, Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days. Since Bethany was near Jerusalem, many of the Jews had come to console Mary and Martha. When Martha heard that Jesus was approaching she went to meet Him and said to Him, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of Him.” Jesus told her that her brother will rise again. Martha said that she knew he would rise again in the resurrection on the last day. Jesus replied, “I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.” Jesus asked Martha if she believed this. She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world” (vv. 17-27).

Martha returned to tell Mary that Jesus had come and was asking for her. Mary went to meet Him, and she was followed by those who were consoling her. The mourners followed her thinking that she was going to the tomb to weep there. When she came to Jesus, she fell at His feet and said, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” Jesus saw her weeping and those who were with her, and He was deeply moved. He asked to be taken to the tomb of Lazarus. As Jesus wept for Lazarus the Jews said, “See how He loved him.” Others wondered that if Jesus could open the eyes of the blind, He certainly could have kept Lazarus from dying (vv. 28-37).

Jesus came to the tomb and asked that the stone that covered the door be taken away. Martha remarked that Lazarus had now been in the tomb for four days and that there would be a stench. Jesus replied, “Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?” The stone was taken away, and Jesus looked toward heaven and said, “Father, I thank you for having heard me, but I have said this for the sake of the crowd standing here, so that they may believe that you sent me.” When He had said this, He called out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” Lazarus walked out of the tomb, bound with the strips of burial cloth, and Jesus said, “Unbind him, and let him go” (vv. 38-44).

As a result of this miracle, many of the Jews that were present believed in Jesus. Others went and told the Pharisees what Jesus had done. In response the Pharisees and chief priests met and considered how they might arrest Him and put Him to death (v. 45ff).

This miracle is performed by Christ as a reassurance to His disciples before the coming Passion: they are to understand that, though He suffers and dies, yet He is Lord and Victor over death. The resurrection of Lazarus is a prophecy in the form of an action. It foreshadows Christ’s own Resurrection eight days later, and at the same time it anticipates the resurrection of all the righteous on the Last Day: Lazarus is “the saving first-fruits of the regeneration of the world.”

As the liturgical texts emphasize, the miracle at Bethany reveals the two natures of Christ the God-man. Christ asks where Lazarus is laid and weeps for him, and so He shows the fullness of His manhood, involving as it does human ignorance and genuine grief for a beloved friend. Then, disclosing the fullness of His divine power, Christ raises Lazarus from the dead, even though his corpse has already begun to decompose and stink. This double fullness of the Lord’s divinity and His humanity is to be kept in view throughout Holy Week, and above all on Good Friday. On the Cross we see a genuine human agony, both physical and mental, but we see more than this: we see not only suffering man but suffering God.

_Icon of the Feast_


The icon of the Saturday of Lazarus shows Christ calling His friend to come out of the tomb (1). Lazarus is coming forth from the tomb (2), still bound in the strips of burial cloth. His sisters, Mary and Martha are bowing before Christ, expressing both their sorrow in the death of their brother, but also their faith in Christ as the Messiah and Son of God. Next to them is someone who has followed the request of our Lord and removed the stone from the door of the tomb (3).

  
1. Christ calls his friend Lazarus to come out.........     2. Lazarus is seen answering the call of his friend
 from his tomb..................................................while still bound in his burial cloth.
Standing with Christ are his disciples who are witnesses of this miracle, a true manifestation of the power of God that would bring them assurance during the Passion of our Lord.

 

3. Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus, ....4. A man who is a part of the crowd that
 bow before Christ as they witness .............followed Christ, witnesses the miracle.
 this awesome miracle.  A young man  ..................................................  ....................
 pulls the stone away..................................................  .............
 from the front of the tomb..................................................  .........
In the center of the icon is a person (4) who represents the crowd who also witnessed the miracle. Some believed, but others went and told the Pharisees and chief priests who continued their machinations to bring about the arrest of Christ and His death. The walled city of Jerusalem, where Christ will arrive in triumph the following day, is depicted in the background.

_Orthodox Christian Celebration of the Saturday of Lazarus_

The Saturday of Lazarus is celebrated with the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, which is preceded by the Matins service. On Friday before the feast, the Vespers is done either in conjunction with the Presanctified Liturgy or if this is not held, according to the order of the Triodion. The day and commemoration receives its name from the miracle of Christ recorded in the Gospel. Both this feast and Palm Sunday are joyous festivals of the Church, and thus bright colors are used for vestments and the Holy Table.

Scripture readings for the Saturday of Lazarus are:* Hebrews 12:28-13:8*; *John 11:1-45.*

At the Divine Liturgy of Lazarus Saturday, the baptismal verse from Galatians ("As many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" Galatians 3:27) replaces the Thrice-Holy Hymn, thus indicating the resurrectional character of the celebration, and the fact that Lazarus Saturday was once among the few great baptismal days in the Orthodox Church Year.

_Hymns of the Feast_

*Apolytikion*: First Tone 

_By raising Lazarus from the dead before Your Passion, You confirmed the universal resurrection, O Christ God! Like the children with palms of victory, We cry out to You, O Vanquisher of Death; Hosanna in the highest! Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord!_

*Kontakion*: Second Tone

_Christ - the Joy, the Truth, and the Light of All, the Life of the World and the Resurrection - has appeared in his goodness to those on earth. He has become the Image of our resurrection, granting divine forgiveness to all._

*Troparion of Saturday of St. Lazarus*, Orthros. Tone 1

_O Christ God, when Thou didst raise Lazarus from the dead, before Thy Passion, thou didst confirm the universal resurrection. Wherefore, we, like babes, carry the insignia of triumph and victory, and cry to Thee, O vanquisher of death, Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he that cometh in the Name of the Lord. Listen »_

*Exaposteilaria, Saturday of St. Lazarus*. Tone 3

_By Your word, O Word of God, Lazarus now leaps out of death, having returned to this life. Therefore the peoples honor You with their branches, O Mighty One; for You shall destroy Hades utterly by Your own death.

By means of Lazarus has Christ already plundered you, O death. Where is your victory, O Hades? For the lament of Bethany is handed over now to you. Let us all wave against it our branches of victory._

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## Theocrat

Indeed, the story of Lazarus' resurrection is one of the most powerful stories in the Bible because it shows the divine nature of Jesus Christ (contrary to what some skeptics believe about His nature). However, I hate how the Eastern Orthodox Church has to add "icons" to illustrate the story. We have the inspired words of Scripture. We don't need pictures to study, meditate, and appreciate the account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. To me, it's borderline idolatry.

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## Maximus

> We don't need pictures to study, meditate, and appreciate the account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. To me, it's borderline idolatry.


The funny thing is that pictures help us to study, meditate on, and appreciate the stories of Scripture.

Until the invention of the printing press, and indeed through today, many in the world were illiterate.  Art allows those who cannot read to delve into the beauty of Sacred Scripture and learn the stories found within.

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## Petar



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## TER

> Indeed, the story of Lazarus' resurrection is one of the most powerful stories in the Bible because it shows the divine nature of Jesus Christ (contrary to what some skeptics believe about His nature). However, I hate how the Eastern Orthodox Church has to add "icons" to illustrate the story. We have the inspired words of Scripture. We don't need pictures to study, meditate, and appreciate the account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. To me, it's borderline idolatry.


Theo, the use of icons is an ancient Christian practice which serves a great purpose in expressing the gospel message of Christ to the masses and is an excellent instructional role in teaching the faithful about the Christian faith.  As Maximus noted, prior to the invention of the printing press, a person having a written bible was exceedingly rare (to say the least).  We take it for granted how easy it is for us to crack open the Holy Bible and read the Word of God.  In fact, even for the first few centuries, there was no bible *at all* like the one we are used to today until it was compiled by the Church in the 4th century in order to preserve and defend the truth against the mounting heresies sprouting out across the Christian world.  Thus, icons naturally became a way to educate the faithful about events in the life of Christ.  For the majority of Christians (who statistically speaking have been illiterate), there was little alternative.

We must remember that an icon is a drawing which serves primarily to demonstrate theological truths.  Aside from its use in educating the believers, it is a tool often used  by the faithful to assist in their worship of God by helping them focus and meditate during moments of prayer.  The icon itself, however, is not worshipped.  It is not at all made into an idol.  The wood and paint and such is not worshiped.  Rather, it is Christ Whose image is on it Who is worshiped.  

Similarly, the Holy Bible is venerated and treated with respect and God is worshiped _through_ the writings in the Bible, but the Bible _itself_ is not worshiped, though some modern Christians sometimes give the impressions like they might.  Christians do not worship the Bible like the Muslims worship the Koran.  Similarly, the Church does not worship icons

Below is short synopsis about the use of icons in the Church from a website which can be found here: Online Orthodox Catechsim



> THE HOLY ICONS
> 
> In the Orthodox tradition the icon is not merely an adornment in the church building or an object to be used in worship: people pray before it, they kiss it and treat it as a sacred object.
> 
> In spite of the existence of icons from distant antiquity there have at various times been tendencies opposed to the veneration of icons. In the seventh and eighth centuries these tendencies culminated in the iconoclast heresy that was condemned at the Seventh Ecumenical Council. The perennial accusation of the iconoclasts against the venerators of icons was that of idolatry. The basic argument was the Old Testament prohibition to depicting God: ‘You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God’ (Ex.20:4-5). It is obvious, however, that the words quoted are directed at the idols of pagan peoples who worshipped them.
> 
> The New Testament is the revelation of God Who became man and Who could be seen by people. That which is invisible cannot be depicted in images, while that which is visible can be depicted as it is no longer the product of fantasy, but a reality. St John of Damascus presents us with the notion that the Old Testament prohibition of depicting the invisible God points towards the possibility of depicting Him when He becomes visible: ‘It is obvious that when you contemplate God becoming man, then you may depict Him clothed in human form. When the invisible One becomes visible to flesh, you may then draw His likeness... Use every kind of drawing, word, or colour’.
> 
> The iconoclast heresy of the eighth century was a continuation of the Christological heresies discussed at earlier Ecumenical Councils. The defense of icons became a defense of the belief in the Incarnation of Christ, for iconoclasm was one of the ways of denying the reality of this Incarnation. For the Orthodox, the icon is not an idol substituting the invisible God, but a symbol and sign of His presence in the Church. The Fathers of the Seventh Ecumenical Council concurred with St Basil the Great in saying that ‘the honour rendered to the image goes over to the Prototype’. The Council insisted that, in bowing down to the icon, the Christian does not worship wood and colours, but the one depicted on wood — Christ. There is therefore nothing in common between idolatry and the veneration of icons. The icon is not something standing before the human person as a sole and self-sufficient object for worship. It is not even something placed between the person and God. To use the expression of Fr Paul Florensky, the icon is a window onto the other world: through the icon the human person comes into direct contact with the spiritual world and those who live there.


This thread also discusses the use of icons in the Church: ronpaulforums

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## TER

The Life of St. Lazarus according to Christian tradition


Lazarus was a Hebrew by birth and a Pharisee by profession, and, as has been ascertained, was a son of Simon the Pharisee, from the village of Bethany. When our Lord Jesus Christ was sojourning in the land for the salvation of our race, Simon was united to Him in friendship. Since Christ was constantly conversing with Simon, in view of the latters professed belief in the resurrection of the dead, and frequently visited his house, Lazarus became His close friend, and not only Lazarus himself, but also his two sisters, Martha and Mary. Now that the saving Passion was drawing near, it was necessary to provide a more precise assurance of the Mystery of the Resurrection. While Jesus was staying beyond Jordan, having previously raised the daughter of Jairus and the son of the widow from the dead, His friend Lazarus reposed, overcome by a serious illness. Jesus, therefore, though absent, said to His Disciples, Lazarus sleepeth, and again, after a short time, Lazarus is dead. Leaving the region around Jordan, He went to Bethany, having been summoned by the sisters of the deceased man (Bethany is about fifteen stadia from Jerusalem). He was met by the sisters of Lazarus, who said: Lord, if Thou hadst been here, our brother would not have died; but even now, if it be Thy will, Thou shalt raise him up; for Thou canst do so. Jesus asked the crowd: Where have ye laid him? At once, they all led Him to the tomb. When the stone had been removed, Martha said: Lord, by this time he stinketh; for he hath been dead four days. Then Jesus prayed, and, shedding tears for the one who lay there, cried with a loud voice: Lazarus, come forth. The dead man immediately came forth, and after being unbound, left for home. This wondrous miracle aroused the people of the Hebrews, who raged against Christ, to envy. Jesus departed once more. The High Priests plotted to kill Lazarus, because many who saw him joined with Christ. But Lazarus, on learning what they had in mind, fled to the island of Cyprus, and sojourning there, was later made Bishop of the city of Kition by the Apostles. Having lived a good and God-pleasing life for thirty years after he was revived, he reposed again. He is buried in that place, where he has wrought many miracles.


It is said that after he was brought back to life he ate nothing without first sweetening it, and that the All-Pure Mother of God made his Omophorion with her own hands and presented him with it. On the basis of a Divine vision, the most wise Emperor Leo transferred this precious and holy Relic from Cyprus and deposited it reverently and at great expense in the Church dedicated to St. Lazarus which he had built in Constantinople; it lies on the right as you enter the Church by the front walls of the holy Altar. This precious Relic of his remains there to this day, giving off an ineffable fragrance.


Our Holy and God-bearing Fathers, or rather, the Holy Apostles, decreed that the Raising of Lazarus be celebrated on this day, after the forty-day Fast, and they decreed that the Holy Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ be celebrated after this, because they ascertained that this miracle was the beginning and cause of the fury of the Jews against Christ, and this is why they assigned this place to such a preternatural wonder. Only St. John the Evangelist wrote about this event, since the other Evangelists passed over itperhaps because Lazarus was still alive and visible. It is said that this is the reason why St. John wrote the rest of his Gospel, and also because the other Evangelists said nothing about the unoriginate Nativity of Christ; for this is what men were being asked to believe, that Christ was the Son of God and God, that He arose, and that there would be a resurrection of the dead. The latter is more credible on account of the Raising of Lazarus. Lazarus said nothing about the realm of Hades, either because he was not permitted to see things there perfectly or because, having seen them, he was commanded to keep silent about them. It is on this basis that every recently deceased person is called Lazarus and his burial shroud is called a lazároma, the word perhaps hinting that we should bring to mind the first Lazarus; for if the latter was raised by the word of Christ and came to life again, so the former, although he has died, will rise again at the last trumpet and live eternally.


By the intercessions of Thy friend Lazarus, O Christ God, have mercy on us. Amen.

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## Sola_Fide

> Indeed, the story of Lazarus' resurrection is one of the most powerful stories in the Bible because it shows the divine nature of Jesus Christ (contrary to what some skeptics believe about His nature). However, I hate how the Eastern Orthodox Church has to add "icons" to illustrate the story. We have the inspired words of Scripture. We don't need pictures to study, meditate, and appreciate the account of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. To me, it's borderline idolatry.


Yes, these images are a violation of the commandment.  How else does one interpret it?

I've had only one conversation with an EO person in my life.  It was a great discussion, but he kept showing me these little amulets in his pocket with pictures of Jesus and "the saints" on them and how he prayed with them and got power from them.  I was amazed and I asked him where in the Bible it is shown for us to pray with amulets or use icons in worship.  The discussion didn't go much farther

The Reformation was as much about the true nature of worship as it was about theology.  In one sense, the *way* we worship is actually a reflection of our theology.  

If we believe that God's commandments are sufficient to guide us to worship Him correctly, we will worship Him a certain way.  If we believe that the traditions of men guide us into right worship, then we will worship a different way (an incorrect way).

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## TER

> Yes, these images are a violation of the commandment.  How else does one interpret it?


Actually, no, they are not.  Didn't God instruct Moses to add statues of cherubim to the Ark?  Did God violate His own commandment?  Didn't the Temple in Jerusalem have paintings of angels?  Was King Solomon unaware of the Ten Commandments?

Or perhaps it is some of _us_ rather who have misunderstood what the second commandment means?




> I've had only one conversation with an EO person in my life.  It was a great discussion, but he kept showing me these little amulets in his pocket with pictures of Jesus and "the saints" on them and how he prayed with them and got power from them.  I was amazed and I asked him where in the Bible it is shown for us to pray with amulets or use icons in worship.  The discussion didn't go much farther


I recall a scene in Exodus (I believe) where Moses placed a bronze serpent on a piece of wood, so that all who would look upon it might receive power and healing.  How do you explain this? 




> The Reformation was as much about the true nature of worship as it was about theology.  In one sense, the *way* we worship is actually a reflection of our theology.


You are absolutely correct.  True worship stems from true theology.  As it has been famously said, 'a theologian is one who prays'.  

The theology behind the use of icons comes directly from the belief in the Incarnation of God.  Trying to put in images that which is unseen (such as God the Father) is prohibited.  Replicating in images that which has been revealed is not.  I don't think you would have a problem with a person drawing a painting of Jesus Christ, do you?  If you do, I suggest you read On Divine Images by St. John of Damascus so that you can learn the theology regarding portraying that which God has already revealed to His creation.




> If we believe that God's commandments are sufficient to guide us to worship Him correctly, we will worship Him a certain way.  If we believe that the traditions of men guide us into right worship, then we will worship a different way (an incorrect way).


The funny thing is, Christ created His Church precisely in order that His faithful would know what kind of worship is pleasing to Him and what kind is not.  By the Holy Spirit guiding the Church, the faith and teachings have been maintained and defended and handed down throughout the ages, even before there was a bible.  As a result, the 2000 year old Church worships the same everywhere with the same theology.  This Church, of course, I mean to be the Orthodox Church.

Interestingly, if one studies the Old Testament worship of God and that found in the New Testament (including the Book of Revelation where glimpses of worship in the Kingdom of God is revealed),_ no where_ is this worship more closely matched than in the Divine Liturgy service of the Orthodox Church, including vestements, incense, and all.

 For those faithful who try to worship God outside of the Church and try to replace the traditions which have been handed down by the saints with their own ideas of  what is God pleasing worship or not, what you end up get is a great cacophony of differing types of worships, eventually including the complete bizarre (ex, Toronto blessing).

The Reformation you mentioned has led to thousand upon thousands of different denominations with widely varying theologies and extremely different forms of worship.  Are all these correct then and the 2000 year old faith of the Orthodox Church (which is one and the same everywhere) wrong?  Logic and common sense tell me otherwise.

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## PatriotOne

That didn't really happen either.  It's just a retelling of the story of Osiris and Horus.  This time starring Jesus and Lazarus.

*Is Lazarus a remake of Osiris?* 

http://freethoughtnation.com/contrib...of-osiris.html

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## TER

> That didn't really happen either.  It's just a retelling of the story of Osiris and Horus.


So you believe.

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## TER

St. Romanus the Melodist on the Raising of Lazarus




O Christ, Thou who knowest all things,
Thou hast asked to learn where the tomb of Lazarus is,
And arriving there, Thou hast raised him up on the fourth day,
O All-powerful One,
Taking pity, Merciful One,
On the tears of Mary and Martha.

The Master, checking the lamentations of Mary and Martha,
Immediately stilled them when He raised up their brother.
It was possible, then, to see marvel of marvels,
How the lifeless suddenly was seen to be alive.
For when His voice descended,
It caused the bolts of the gate of Hades
To shake; and it broke down the bars of the door of Death;
And on the fourth day, He raised up the dead; as the Merciful One,
He took pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Let us all, with love, hurry to Bethany to see Christ there,
Weeping for his friend.
For wishing all things to be ordained by law,
He controls all things in His dual nature.
He suffers as son of David; as Son of God,
He redeems the whole world from all the evil of the serpent,
And on the fourth day, He raised up Lazarus, taking pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Together sustained by faith,
The two announced to Christ and God the death
Of their brother, saying,
Hasten, come, Thou who art always present in all places,
For Lazarus whom Thou dost love is ill: if Thou come near,
Death will vanish, and Thy friend will be saved from corruption,
And the Jews will see that Thou, the Merciful One,
Hast taken pity on
The tears of May and Martha.

The Creator of all spoke on behalf of the disciples, saying:
Friends and companions, our friend has fallen asleep.
He was secretly teaching them in advance,
Because He knows and care for all things,
Let us go, then, let us advance and see the unusual tomb,
And let us cause the mourning of Mary and Martha to cease
As I raise up Lazarus from the tomb,
And as the Merciful One take pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

When the heard these words, the apostles
As with one voice cried out to the Lord,
Sleep exists for man for his safety
And not at all for his destruction.
And so He spoke to them openly: He is dead.
As mortal I am away from him; but as God, I know all things.
If we truly arrive at the opportune time,
I shall resurrect the dead, and cause to cease
The tears of Mary and Martha.

They all, then, arrived together,
When Mary and her sister came to meet them, crying bitterly,
Lord, where wert Thou? For he whom Thou lovest has departed,
And lo, he is not here.
As they cried out these words, He, himself, wept.
But he asked, Where is the tomb of my friend? Now
I am going to release him from the chains of Hades,
Since as the only lover of mankind, I take pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

When they arrived at the tomb,
He who is in the bosom of His Father, called out:
Thou hast sent me into the world
That I might bring life to the dead.
I have come, then, to raise up Lazarus
And to reveal to the Jews that I am going to arise from my tomb
On the third day, I who after the fourth day resurrect my friend And now
take pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

In order that He might bring an end to the mourning of Martha,
The Savior of all spoke to her and addressed
These divine words to her:
I exist as the Light of the world
And the resurrection of all from the dead;
It was for this end that I appeared in order to resurrect Adam
And the descendants of Adam
And on the fourth day to resurrect Lazarus
Taking pity, as a Merciful One, on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

When the command was given with a nod of His head,
Hades was made to totter,
And also the power of Death and the arrogance of the Devil.
With the sound of His voice,
He raised up from the depths of the earth
The one who was four days dead.
When they saw this, Abraham and all the righteous cried out:
Now, take courage, since the resurrection of all has come.
He has delivered from the bonds of death
The one whom He loves, as He, the Merciful One, takes pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Hades, now a prisoner, sees himself despoiled of this Lazarus,
Whom a short time ago he held enchained below;
For when the King of angels came against him,
The strength of demons was destroyed;
And the serpent who trails over the earth on his stomach,
Now, pierced in the mouth by the Wooden Spear, appears as dead.
But Adam rejoices when he sees Christ,
In His goodness, take pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Rising from the tomb, the friend reveals his eyes
And hands bound by a cloth;
They release him  those who have their hearts
Bound by the ill will of slander,
Those who, as they plug up their ears like the adder,
Prepare their hands for most wicked slaughter,
That they may pour out
The harmless and innocent blood of the One
Who raises up the dead, and checks
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Having heard the words of the children,
Which came from pure hearts and innocent lips,
They were all filled with fear
Saying to one another, Who is this man?
O madness and complete stupidity!
A short time ago they saw raised from the dead
A corpse who had become fetid,
And they do not know who resurrected him,
And who destroyed with His voice the power of Hades,
And in accord with His merciful nature checked
The tears of Mary and Martha!

O Thy unspeakable compassion, all merciful Jesus!
Who didst consent to come for me and to me,
How didst Thou calmly ride upon the ass
And advance into the city of God-slayers?
Foreseeing their terrible lack of faith, Thou didst command them
To release the bonds of Lazarus, that they might see
The One whom in a short time they wish to put to death
With no pity for
The tears of Mary and Martha.

O Savior, all came with palms on the occasion of Thy arrival,
Crying, Hosanna! to Thee,
Now all of us bring hymns to Thee out of piteous mouths,
As we wave the branches of our spirit and cry out:
O Thou, truly among those on high, save the world
Which Thou hast created, Lord,
And blot out our sins, just as formerly Thou hast dried
The tears of Mary and Martha.

O Lover of mankind, the Holy Church holds a high festival,
Faithfully calling together her children;
It meets Thee with palms and spreads out garments of joy
So that, with Thy disciples and with Thy friend,
Thou mayest advance and legislate a deep peace for Thy servants,
And release them from oppression, as formerly Thou hast checked
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Incline Thy ear, O God of the universe, and hear our prayers,
And snatch us from the bonds of death,
For our enemies who always surround us, visibly and invisibly,
Threaten to have us put to death, and besides,
To deprive us of our faith.
Arise, and quickly let all be destroyed and let them know
That Thou art our God and dost pity us as Thou didst have pity on
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Let us, who are dead because of our sins, and who dwell in the tomb
Because of our knowledge of evil,
Imitate the sisters of faithful Lazarus as we cry to Christ
With tears, in faith and in love:
Save us, Thou who didst will to become man.
And resurrect us from the tomb of our sins, Thou, alone immortal,
Through the prayers of Thy friend, Lazarus,
Whom Thou didst raise up, O Lord, in checking
The tears of Mary and Martha.

Let us depart the mere material world, which is always in a state of flux,
And hasten to meet Christ the Savior in Bethany.
Let us then dine with Him
And with his friend Lazarus and the apostles
So that we may, by their prayers, be delivered from our past sins.
If we cleanse every stain from our hearts, we shall see perfectly
His divine resurrection, which He offered to us when He took away
The tears of Mary and Martha.

----------


## YumYum

The resurrection of Lazarus is the climax of Jesus ministry in the gospel of John. It happened in front of an entire village, and Lazarus stunk, because he had been dead for days; his resurrection was an incredible phenomenon. The news of his resurrection spread throughout the Mediterranean, and the Pharisees exclaimed "Look how the whole world has gone after him (Jesus)!" The Pharisees not only wanted to kill Jesus, they wanted to kill Lazarus as well.

In fact, after this event, people that had traveled from Greece wanted to meet Jesus, but he declined.

What I don't understand, is why this incredible account of Lazarus' resurrection is not in the other three gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke)?

----------


## libertyjam

> What I don't understand, is why this incredible account of Lazarus' resurrection is not in the other three gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke)?


Because the authors of the other three did not know their Egyptology as well as the author(s) of John did?

----------


## YumYum

> Because the authors of the other three did not know their Egyptology as well as the author(s) of John did?


I just read the link that PatriotOne provided. The similarities are there, but why is the Egyptian text written in the "King's English"?

----------


## TER

> The resurrection of Lazarus is the climax of Jesus ministry in the gospel of John. It happened in front of an entire village, and Lazarus stunk, because he had been dead for days; his resurrection was an incredible phenomenon. The news of his resurrection spread throughout the Mediterranean, and the Pharisees exclaimed "Look how the whole world has gone after him (Jesus)!" The Pharisees not only wanted to kill Jesus, they wanted to kill Lazarus as well.
> 
> In fact, after this event, people that had traveled from Greece wanted to meet Jesus, but he declined.
> 
> What I don't understand, is why this incredible account of Lazarus' resurrection is not in the other three gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke)?


The others were written in a time when Lazarus and his sisters were still alive.  Out of respect to them and in accordance to their wishes, they were not mentioned.  This has been the tradition of the Church since the beginning.

And so, in time, it was St. John the Theologian and beloved of Christ who makes mention of them after they had fallen asleep in the Lord, in order to grant a fuller revelation to the faithful of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to His Good News.  For the world already knew about the miracle with Lazarus.  The whole of Jerusalem in just a few days knew, even before Christ returned there to fulfill His Passion and His work upon the Cross.

And he came riding on a donkey, as the Prince of Peace, fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah, and revealing to the world the nature of God and of His Kingdom.  They called to Him, 

_“ Hosanna to the Son of David!

   ‘ Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’
_

(This has been the call of the faithful every time this day has been commemorated.)

St. Lazarus and his siters St. Mary and St. Martha were considered saints even before they tasted death, far before St. John finished his gospel.

You must remember that because something is mentioned in one gospel and not in another, or even especially so if there appear slight discrepancies, know that this is only natural.  For while these men where saints, living temples of the Holy Spirit, they were still men.  And while each in their own right have a story which would bring astonishment and wonder, there's is to bring greater glory to God.  And so, in their righteous efforts in revealing what they thought should be revealed to the best of their recollections and abilities, they recorded their gospel, in fear and trembling, ready and eventually giving their lives to the truths they proclaimed, that above all, Christ is Risen from the dead and is now at the Right Hand of the Father.

For they had seen the angels descending down from the heavens and gave witness the glory of His Ascension.  They wrote what they saw, what they heard and what they believed to be beneficial and fruitful, in righteousness and according to the will of God.

----------


## TER

> Because the authors of the other three did not know their Egyptology as well as the author(s) of John did?


See that?  And yet they didn't need to know Egyptology to profess with their very lives that Christ is risen from the dead!

----------


## libertyjam

> I just read the link that PatriotOne provided. The similarities are there, but why is the Egyptian text written in the "King's English"?


Why would you think it was?

----------


## TER

> I just read the link that PatriotOne provided.


That Christ fulfilled the prophecies of many nations is not, of course, a charge against Him, but rather worthy of greater glorification and adoration to our Father in heaven.

----------


## TER

Tomorrow the Church commemorates the raising of the Lazarus from the dead.  A blessed day to everyone!





Church of St Lazarus in Larnaca Cyprus
This church in Larnaca (Kittim), Cyprus was built over the tomb of Lazarus,in the Ninth century by Emperor Leo VI of Byzantium. According to Tradition, Lazarus had to flee Bethany and went to Cyprus where he was consecrated Bishop of Kittim by St. Paul. He died there and was buried when he was around sixty years old. Some of his relics are still preserved in this church. The fragments of the relics that were taken to Constantinople, were later were taken to Marseilles, France after the sacking of Constantinople in 1204. Those relics were lost.

[CENTER]
Lazarus's sarcophagus in the crypt of the Church of St Lazarus. This sarcophagus bears the inscription in Greek, Lazarus four days dead and the friend of Christ.


The place of the tomb in Bethany, near Jerusalem is also preserved and it is a very popular and holy place of pilgrimage.


It was here where the Lord Jesus Christ, "cried out with a loud voice,Lazarus, come forth. The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with
wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, Unbind him, and let him go." John 11:43-44 NASB

*Troparion to the Raising of Lazarus - Tone 1 * 

By raising Lazarus from the dead before Your passion, 
You did confirm the universal Resurrection, O Christ God! 
Like the children with the palms of victory, 
We cry out to You, O Vanquisher of death; 
Hosanna in the Highest! 
Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord!

*Kontakion to the Raising of Lazarus - Tone 2*

Christ the Joy, the Truth and the Light of all, 
The Life of the World and the Resurrection 
Has appeared in His goodness, to those on earth. 
He has become the Image of our Resurrection, 
Granting divine forgiveness to all!

----------


## Ronin Truth

*Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.*

----------


## TER

> *Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.*


What extraordinary claim are you referring to?  There are many extraordinary claims involved with a Church built on faith.

----------


## erowe1

> *Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.*


There's nothing extraordinary about the claim that Jesus brought Lazarus back to life from the dead.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> What extraordinary claim are you referring to? There are many extraordinary claims involved with a Church built on faith.


In this instance the resurrection of 4 days dead Lazarus.  Indeed there are.

----------


## TER

> In this instance the resurrection of 4 days dead Lazarus.  Indeed there are.


Would a video of this event been sufficient proof for you?

----------


## Ronin Truth

> There's nothing extraordinary about the claim that Jesus brought Lazarus back to life from the dead.


We must live on different planets, with different laws of physics and biology.  I call mine Earth.

----------


## TER

> We must live on different planets, with different laws of physics and biology.  I call mine Earth.


  The resurrection of a man who had been four days dead does indeed sound like foolishness to those who consider themselves wise in the world.  Luckily, the faithful in Christ do not put the wisdom of the world above what God has revealed.  For such a thing as the raising of Lazarus is extraordinary for us, but such a thing as this is nothing extraordinary or difficult for God Who created the universe out of nothing.  

If we were to rely on human knowledge to define what God can and cannot do, then we have made our minds to be equal to God.  For this reason Christ established His Church on faith, and why we are to find the Kingdom of God within our hearts and not our minds.  Christ is not knocking at the door of our minds, but stands knocking at the door of our hearts.  Humility is required to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and we must start with such humility here in this world, and that begins by accepting that there are certain revelations and wonders of God that the science of this world will never explain.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> The resurrection of a man who had been four days dead does indeed sound like foolishness to those who consider themselves wise in the world. Luckily, the faithful in Christ do not put the wisdom of the world above what God has revealed. For such a thing as the raising of Lazarus is extraordinary for us, but such a thing as this is nothing extraordinary or difficult for God Who created the universe out of nothing. 
> 
> If we were to rely on human knowledge to define what God can and cannot do, then we have made our minds to be equal to God. For this reason Christ established His Church on faith, and why we are to find the Kingdom of God within our hearts and not our minds. Christ is not knocking at the door of our minds, but stands knocking at the door of our hearts. Humility is required to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and we must start with such humility here in this world, and that begins by accepting that there are certain revelations and wonders of God that the science of this world will never explain.


I don't believe that I am making any claims about what God can or may do or not do. I'm challenging the claims made in a book called the word of God containing many very strong indications of the hand of man.

I consider any claimed "miracle" or other claimed suspension of the standard laws of the universe to be extraordinary. I bet that in any other circumstances you probably would too. Correct? All I ask for is the extraordinary evidence to support the claims. That all just seems very reasonable to me.

----------


## TER

> I don't believe that I am making any claims about what God can or may do or not do.  I'm challenging the claims made in a book called the word of God containing many very strong indications of the hand of man.
> 
> I consider any claimed "miracle" or other claimed suspension of the standard laws of the universe to be extraordinary. I bet that in any other circumstances you probably would too. Correct? All I ask for is extraordinary evidence to support the claims. That all just seems very reasonable to me.


The martyrdom of the Apostles and early Christians are enough proof for me to believe they witnessed this miracle.  Are they not enough for you?

----------


## erowe1

> We must live on different planets, with different laws of physics and biology.  I call mine Earth.


This is the same earth where Jesus himself rose from the dead. Our judgment of whether or not it was extraordinary for this same Jesus to bring Lazarus back to life needs to take that fact into account.

And I can't help but wonder how you go about discovering what is or isn't extraordinary, and what behaviors of the physical world do or do not count as laws of physics and biology.

----------


## Christian Liberty

> I don't believe that I am making any claims about what God can or may do or not do. I'm challenging the claims made in a book called the word of God containing many very strong indications of the hand of man.
> 
> I consider any claimed "miracle" or other claimed suspension of the standard laws of the universe to be extraordinary. I bet that in any other circumstances you probably would too. Correct? All I ask for is the extraordinary evidence to support the claims. That all just seems very reasonable to me.


Why does it seem reasonable to you?  How do you know?

The Bible says you have more than enough evidence to believe.  Read Romans 1 and consider whether it applies to you.

----------


## erowe1

> I don't believe that I am making any claims about what God can or may do or not do. I'm challenging the claims made in a book called the word of God containing many very strong indications of the hand of man.
> 
> I consider any claimed "miracle" or other claimed suspension of the standard laws of the universe to be extraordinary. I bet that in any other circumstances you probably would too. Correct? All I ask for is the extraordinary evidence to support the claims. That all just seems very reasonable to me.


For the record, I don't believe that the raising of Lazarus involved any suspension of any standard laws of the universe.

One of the standard laws of the universe is that when Jesus tells someone to rise from the dead, they do it. That law has never been nor ever will be violated.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> The martyrdom of the Apostles and early Christians are enough proof for me to believe they witnessed this miracle. Are they not enough for you?


 To what degree is witnessing a miracle sufficient justification for martyrdom? I doubt that it would be for us. I'd have to call that circumstantial and corollary evidence at best. Sorry, that's not good enough for extraordinary claims. I tend to be a tough case. Thousands of dead GIs in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't make those wars good ideas.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> For the record, I don't believe that the raising of Lazarus involved any suspension of any standard laws of the universe.
> 
> One of the standard laws of the universe is that when Jesus tells someone to rise from the dead, they do it. That law has never been nor ever will be violated.


Well, there's a few more extraordinary claims.  Keep digging.

----------


## TER

> To what degree is witnessing a miracle sufficient justification for martyrdom? I doubt that it would be for us.


I don't think there is any greater proof available then for one to give their life for a belief to show that they really believed it.

Of course, that does not mean that the belief they have is true, for they may have believed a lie. 

Now, you can say that this was a big hoax and that Lazarus was not dead, and the Jews at the time said the same thing. 

I have faith that it was not a lie, that it did happen, and that the Apostles who died testifying this too believed it to be true.  

Of course, in the end this comes down to faith and who you put your trust in.  The Jews who crucified Christ, or the Apostles who suffered torture and martyrdom confessing this miracle.

My question for you then is, what would require you to believe?  Would it mean you would have been there, smelled and seen the rotting corpse of Lazarus, and then seeing him alive again?  Is this one way you will believe, or are there other ways?

----------


## erowe1

> To what degree is witnessing a miracle sufficient justification for martyrdom? I doubt that it would be for us. I'd have to call that circumstantial and corollary evidence at best. Sorry, that's not good enough for extraordinary claims. I tend to be a tough case. Thousands of dead GIs in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't make those wars good ideas.


Many people who claimed to be eye witnesses of the risen Jesus died for their making, and standing by, that claim.

This is not comparable to dead soldiers, or even later martyrs.

People don't die for a belief unless they really believe it. In the case of the eye witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, this was a belief about something they themselves personally experienced with their five senses. Since we know that they weren't lying about that belief, it follows that we know that they actually did witness the resurrected Jesus. If their claims were not true, as you suppose (I think), and if they themselves were not lying, then it would have to be that they were deceived. But all possible explanations for how they could have been deceived, such as a mass hallucination, or Jesus swooning, are impossible given the known facts.

Also, you try to just push aside all circumstantial evidence. But we're talking about historical events. That's a major kind of evidence we have for all history. And in the case of the resurrection of Jesus, it's not even true that it's the only kind of evidence, since we also have residual evidence of the changes that this particular event left on the world, namely the existence of Christianity, which owes itself to Jesus rising from the dead and being seen by witnesses.

----------


## erowe1

> Well, there's a few more extraordinary claims.  Keep digging.


What are they?

----------


## Ronin Truth

> I don't think there is any greater proof available then for one to give their life for a belief to show that they really believed it.
> 
> Of course, that does not mean that the belief they have is true, for they may have believed a lie. 
> 
> Now, you can say that this was a big hoax and that Lazarus was not dead, and the Jews at the time said the same thing. 
> 
> I have faith that it was not a lie, that it did happen, and that the Apostles who died testifying this too believed it to be true. 
> 
> Of course, in the end this comes down to faith and who you put your trust in. The Jews who crucified Christ, or the Apostles who suffered torture and martyrdom confessing this miracle.
> ...


I can follow your reasoning without sharing it. Being present would probably have helped, but that's a "no can do". Maybe a hoax, maybe a trick, maybe a complete fabrication, maybe it happened exactly as reported. Who knows? Is there any possible human motivation to "fudge" the facts of the events in the book? My fondness for Jesus is not dependent on Lazarus returning from the dead.

BTW, I don't recall hearing about any Jews pounding in the crucification nails. Did I just miss something?

----------


## Ronin Truth

> What are they?


1) For the record, I don't believe that the raising of Lazarus involved any suspension of any standard laws of the universe.

2) One of the standard laws of the universe is that when Jesus tells someone to rise from the dead, they do it.

3) That law has never been nor ever will be violated.

----------


## TER

> I can follow your reasoning without sharing it. Being present would probably have helped, but that's a "no can do". Maybe a hoax, maybe a trick, maybe a complete fabrication, maybe it happened exactly as reported. Who knows? Is there any possible human motivation to "fudge" the facts of the events in the book? My fondness for Jesus is not dependent on Lazarus returning from the dead.


The raising of Lazarus was the greatest miracle Christ performed before His own resurrection, and it was the reason why He was greated as the Messiah a few days later in His entrance into Jerusalem.  It is also the miracle that eventually prompted the Sanhedrin to act and kill Him, because His popularity grew by leaps and bounds after this miracle.  The point I am trying to make is that historically (and theologically) this is an extremely important event in the history of Christ's ministry, and to deny this miracle would ignore the significance of it, both historically and theologically.




> BTW, I don't recall hearing about any Jews pounding in the crucification nails. Did I just miss something?


I am not sure what you mean here.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Many people who claimed to be eye witnesses of the risen Jesus died for their making, and standing by, that claim.
> 
> This is not comparable to dead soldiers, or even later martyrs.
> 
> People don't die for a belief unless they really believe it. In the case of the eye witnesses of the resurrected Jesus, this was a belief about something they themselves personally experienced with their five senses. Since we know that they weren't lying about that belief, it follows that we know that they actually did witness the resurrected Jesus. If their claims were not true, as you suppose (I think), and if they themselves were not lying, then it would have to be that they were deceived. But all possible explanations for how they could have been deceived, such as a mass hallucination, or Jesus swooning, are impossible given the known facts.
> 
> Also, you try to just push aside all circumstantial evidence. But we're talking about historical events. That's a major kind of evidence we have for all history. And in the case of the resurrection of Jesus, it's not even true that it's the only kind of evidence, since we also have residual evidence of the changes that this particular event left on the world, namely the existence of Christianity, which owes itself to Jesus rising from the dead and being seen by witnesses.



Dying to make a point and to prove the degree of your belief has never struck me as a particularly smart or wise choice. Did Jesus require that of them? I don't think so. 

Were the Romans some bad-ass evil bastards? You betcha.  I give Paul and Constantine most of the credit/blame for Christianity as it has been known throughout history for good or ill.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> The raising of Lazarus was the greatest miracle Christ performed before His own resurrection, and it was the reason why He was greated as the Messiah a few days later in His entrance into Jerusalem. It is also the miracle that eventually prompted the Sanhedrin to act and kill Him, because His popularity grew by leaps and bounds after this miracle. The point I am trying to make is that historically (and theologically) this is an extremely important event in the history of Christ's ministry, and to deny this miracle would ignore the significance of it, both historically and theologically.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.


 So it seems there would have been very strong motivations for following generations to "massage" the facts of events. I'm not saying they did, but it's possible.


Jesus was executed by a conspiracy between church and state. The Romans did the crucifying according to my reading of the book. My apologies if I was being unclear.

----------


## TER

Dying in witness for Christ is the quickest way to sainthood, and this sentiment was especially strong in the early Church.  These early faithful willingly risked their lives to profess the truth that Christ is Lord and God, and many endured tortures and death eagerly in order to receive their heavenly crowns of martyrdom.  And it is the blood of the martyrs which spread the faith like a wildfire in those formative years.  May these martyrs forever pray for us before the Throne of God.

----------


## TER

> So it seems there would have been very strong motivations for following generations to "massage" the facts of events. I'm not saying they did, but it's possible.


Anything is possible.  Which is why faith is required.




> Jesus was executed by a conspiracy between church and state. The Romans did the crucifying according to my reading of the book. My apologies if I was being unclear.


I agree and thank you for the clarification.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Dying in witness for Christ is the quickest way to sainthood, and this sentiment was especially strong in the early Church. These early faithful willingly risked their lives to profess the truth that Christ is Lord and God, and many endured tortures and death eagerly in order to receive their heavenly crowns of martyrdom. And it is the blood of the martyrs which spread the faith like a wildfire in those formative years. May these martyrs forever pray for us before the Throne of God.


 So they threw away a lesser good for the promise of a greater good. Sounds kind of manipulative and selfish to me. Kinda like the Muslim suicide bombers (martyrs) and their promised heavenly virgins. P.T. Barnum was right, allegedly.  There's one born every minute. 

I hope that they all got what they deserve.

----------


## TER

> So they threw away a lesser good for the promise of a greater good. Sounds kind of manipulative and selfish to me. Kinda like the Muslim suicide bombers (martyrs) and their promised heavenly virgins. P.T. Barnum was right, allegedly.  There's one born every minute. 
> 
> I hope that they all got what they deserve.


Not selfish my friend to endure excruciating torture in order to spread the good news so that others might also be saved.  Not selfish at all.  In fact, the opposite of selfish.

And the Muslim suicide bombers do not compare in any way.  These early Christian martyrs did not kill others in their martyrdom.  This is a very big difference.

And to call these people suckers is quite insensitive of you.  It is unfortunate you feel that way.  

As for whether they got what they deserved, I guess we will find out in the end.

----------


## erowe1

> 1) For the record, I don't believe that the raising of Lazarus involved any suspension of any standard laws of the universe.


That's just a claim about what I believe. What more evidence could you need for the claim that I believe something than simply my saying so?




> 2) One of the standard laws of the universe is that when Jesus tells someone to rise from the dead, they do it.


There's nothing extraordinary about that claim. Do you have any reason to disagree?




> 3) That law has never been nor ever will be violated.


Has that law ever been violated? Will it ever be violated? Please support your answer with evidence.

----------


## Terry1

The part I love the most about this historical event, is seeing how much love and compassion Jesus had for those weeping for Lazarus--"Jesus wept" for them.  


John 11:  41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying.[d] And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.  42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.  43 Now when He had said these things, *He cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth!*  44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, Loose him, and let him go.

That is so powerful.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Not selfish my friend to endure excruciating torture in order to spread the good news so that others might also be saved. Not selfish at all. In fact, the opposite of selfish.
> 
> And the Muslim suicide bombers do not compare in any way. These early Christian martyrs did not kill others in their martyrdom. This is a very big difference.
> 
> And to call these people suckers is quite insensitive of you. It is unfortunate you feel that way. 
> 
> As for whether they got what they deserved, I guess we will find out in the end.


Doing what their religion tells them is necessary to get their eternal reward does not strike me as particularly selfless, in any way. Suicidal, yes. Some acts and ways are more painful than others. Would they have done it without the promised rewards? Questionable. 

I've never been called overly sensitive. Fortunate or not, I tend to call it like I see it. Perhaps we will find out and perhaps we won't. That would also tend to be an extraordinary claim. 

Would you care to get back to that extraordinary evidence?  Or is this enough for one day?

----------


## Ronin Truth

> That's just a claim about what I believe. What more evidence could you need for the claim that I believe something than simply my saying so?
> 
> *The claim is not extraordinary. What it's about is. Extraordinary evidence please. You may, of course, choose to believe whatever you want.
> *
> There's nothing extraordinary about that claim. Do you have any reason to disagree?
> 
> *Nope! But I also have no credible evidence of it's accuracy.
> 
> *Has that law ever been violated? Will it ever be violated? Please support your answer with evidence. 
> ...


*Onward and upward.*

----------


## Ronin Truth

> The part I love the most about this historical event, is seeing how much love and compassion Jesus had for those weeping for Lazarus--"Jesus wept" for them. 
> 
> 
> John 11: 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying.[d] And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me. 43 Now when He had said these things, *He cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth!* 44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, Loose him, and let him go.
> 
> That is so powerful.


 Bound hand and foot. I guess we then have to assume that he didn't just walk out. Maybe it was more of a kangaroo hop.

----------


## Ronin Truth

Oops, I apparently missed a few posts. I'll try to catch up here.




> This is the same earth where Jesus himself rose from the dead. Our judgment of whether or not it was extraordinary for this same Jesus to bring Lazarus back to life needs to take that fact into account.
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how you go about discovering what is or isn't extraordinary, and what behaviors of the physical world do or do not count as laws of physics and biology.


 Yeah you gotta admit that's pretty extraordinary too. Did he raise himself or did God do it? The extraordinary evidence requirements just keep on piling up. 

Well, you just go about your life day to day and after a few decades of observing how the universe works somethings are common place and everyday or so. Other things not so common. And a very small number of extraordinary occurrences over a lifetime. Hence extra ordinary. These things are usually pretty interesting and require special explanations.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Would a video of this event been sufficient proof for you?


  Highly doubtful.  The video itself would need some pretty extraordinary explaining.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Why does it seem reasonable to you? How do you know?
> 
> The Bible says you have more than enough evidence to believe. Read Romans 1 and consider whether it applies to you.


 I don't know. That's why I want the evidence.

If I had written the bible I would probably say that too. It really saves a whole lot of very tedious explaining.

I'm not a Roman nor a Christian and I usually don't like to read other folks' mail, therefore it probably doesn't apply to me. Plus it's kinda rude.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> So it seems there would have been very strong motivations for following generations to "massage" the facts of events. I'm not saying they did, but it's possible.
> 
> 
> Jesus was executed by a conspiracy between church and state. The Romans did the crucifying according to my reading of the book. My apologies if I was being unclear.


At the time of the Passion, the Roman occupiers forbade the Jews from committing an execution.  In Matthew 27, we find that the Jews demanded the execution (murder) of Yeshua-the Roman carrying out of the act was simply a legal technicality.

----------


## erowe1

> Dying to make a point and to prove the degree of your belief has never struck me as a particularly smart or wise choice.


Me neither. But did you mean this to be a reply to the quote you gave from me? Because I don't see any connection between what you say here and that.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> At the time of the Passion, the Roman occupiers forbade the Jews from committing an execution. In Matthew 27, we find that the Jews demanded the execution (murder) of Yeshua-the Roman carrying out of the act was simply a legal technicality.


 Thanks.  Which Jews? Temple clergy?  I kinda think the post Constantine Romans had huge incentives to white wash the whole story, by blaming the Jews.  Didn't that turn out well for the Jews over the following millenia?  Official history is written by the winners.

----------


## erowe1

> *Onward and upward.*


So then your three supposedly extraordinary claims are just one claim. And by your own admission, you don't have any reason for saying it's extraordinary.

----------


## erowe1

> I kinda think the post Constantine Romans had huge incentives to white wash the whole story


How? Our main sources come from long before that.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Me neither. But did you mean this to be a reply to the quote you gave from me? Because I don't see any connection between what you say here and that.


 Rereading post #40, it makes sense to me when complete and in context.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Lazarus, the song:

----------


## Ronin Truth

> How? Our main sources come from long before that.


 How long?  Do you have any sources before 200 AD?  Who wrote them? Are we having a deja vu experience here? LOL!

----------


## Ronin Truth

> So then your three supposedly extraordinary claims are just one claim. And by your own admission, you don't have any reason for saying it's extraordinary.


  Did I make a claim? You're right I have absolutely no reason, I'm just completely arbitrary and capricious.  

Does this tactic usually work out for you?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> How long?  Do you have any sources before 200 AD?  Who wrote them? Are we having a deja vu experience here? LOL!


Mark's gospel (attributed to John Mark)is dated to 70 AD by all scholars I know of.  Luke's last name is unknown, but he was a physician.  His gospel is dated to 70-80 AD.  Matthew was written between 50-70 AD during Matthew's residence in Antioch, where the Church was a mix of Jewish and gentile Christians.  It is attributed to Matthew.

Why 200 AD?  All the gospels and the various copies were written long before then.

----------


## fr33

How did Lazarus die the first time?

And did he die again?

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Mark's gospel (attributed to John Mark)is dated to 70 AD by all scholars I know of. Luke's last name is unknown, but he was a physician. His gospel is dated to 70-80 AD. Matthew was written between 50-70 AD during Matthew's residence in Antioch, where the Church was a mix of Jewish and gentile Christians. It is attributed to Matthew.
> 
> Why 200 AD? All the gospels and the various copies were written long before then.


It doesn't seem that long ago that I read somewhere that the oldest copies of the gospels found were from around 200 AD. I guess they must have found some older ones since then.

----------


## VIDEODROME

> How did Lazarus die the first time?
> 
> And did he die again?


It happened exactly like this....

----------


## robert68

> Doing what their religion tells them is necessary to get their eternal reward does not strike me as particularly selfless, in any way. Suicidal, yes. Some acts and ways are more painful than others. Would they have done it without the promised rewards? Questionable. 
> 
> I've never been called overly sensitive. Fortunate or not, I tend to call it like I see it. Perhaps we will find out and perhaps we won't. That would also tend to be an extraordinary claim. 
> 
> Would you care to get back to that extraordinary evidence?  Or is this enough for one day?


You sound like you’re looking for evidence or something.

----------


## erowe1

> Do you have any sources before 200 AD?


Of course. Every book of the New Testament is from not just before AD 200, but before AD 100.

Then there are quite a bit of additional writings from before AD 200.

And you said Constantine, so that would also include all the other writings that are from before AD 300.

And that doesn't just include Christian writings, but nonchristian ones as well, also including several from well before AD 200.

----------


## erowe1

> It doesn't seem that long ago that I read somewhere that the oldest copies of the gospels found were from around 200 AD. I guess they must have found some older ones since then.


If the oldest copies of the Gospels are from around AD 200, how do you explain your theory of them being the result of tampering done after AD 300?

----------


## erowe1

> Did I make a claim?


Yes. You claimed that I made extraordinary claims.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> It doesn't seem that long ago that I read somewhere that the oldest copies of the gospels found were from around 200 AD. I guess they must have found some older ones since then.


The history section of my bible is (c) 2008, and I've seen the same information in much older books from the 20th century, religious and secular.  There are dozens of copies of the originals, but that's a different story.  One of the arguments advanced by atheists and skeptical Christians in arguing that the various copies distributed throughout the world have slight differnces from the source texts.  However, these differences are insignificant-typically punctuation and spelling differences and don't change the meaning of the text.  Somewhat like different translators have translated Bulgakov slightly differently.

----------


## TER

*Lazarus Saturday*

_by Archbishop Andrei (Rymarenko)_


_In the same way we cry to Thee, O Conqueror of death: Hosanna in the highest, blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord_ 
Troparion (hymn) sung on Lazarus Saturday 

 Great is this Holy Day, brothers and sisters! Just think of it, Conqueror of death! There have been many conquerors in the history of humanity: many gifted doctors have conquered many sicknesses, many military leaders have conquered tremendous armies, even entire countries. There have been conquerors of space such as the inventors of automobiles, airplanes; conquerors of distance  the inventors of the telephone, telegraph, and so on. But Conqueror of death  the whole world does not know of anyone else but Jesus Christ. He alone. Even the so-called unbelieving world cannot mention another name. No one among the most prominent people would ever even attempt to make such a claim. But He is, was, and will be  our Savior and our Lord. 

During His historical evangelistic life He proved this in three instances: the resurrection of the daughter of Jairus, the resurrection of the son of the widow of Nain, and here in todays Gospel, the resurrection of Lazarus. 

The death of the daughter of Jairus was a recent one. She died while Christ and her father were going to her. Even Christ called it slumber; but the people laughed Him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. And He put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise! And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and He commanded to give her meat (Lk. 8:53-55). 

In the case of the son of the widow of Nain, death, seemingly stronger, came into its own: the dead man had already been laid on the funeral bier. They had carried him not only from the house, but already through the city gates. In order to touch the bier, the Lord had to stop the carriers. And only then did He say, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise! And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And He delivered him to his mother (Lk. 7:14-15). 

And now Lazarus. The victory of death here was final, one hundred percent. Lazarus had been in the tomb four days already. There was weeping, but no one had any hope of an instantaneous resurrection. Even one of the dead mans sisters said to the Lord: I know he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Even the Lord Himself, when He saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, and He wept. Finally He said, Take ye away the stone. Here, even the sister of the dead man could not contain herself and said to Him: Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. So the stone was removed from the tomb where the dead man was lying, and Christ cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth! And he that was dead came forth bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go (Jn. 11:17-44). 

Besides physical death, there is mental death. Physical death is visible to everyone, but mental death is usually not noticeable to people. It is felt only by the dead person himself. Bishop Theophan the Recluse said much about this. Sometimes it happens that a sinful thought darts into your mind and awakens a sinful feeling, but the soul catches itself and calls to the Lord in repentance. And the Lord, as with the daughter of Jairus, will as if stretch out His hand and say, Soul, arise! And life will return to its joyous flow. But sometimes it happens that we do not catch ourselves in time and sin enters more deeply into our soul (like going out from the house) and the result will be full acceptance of the sin, and turmoil. But also here, by the prayers of our Mother, the Church of Christ, who cries before the Lord for her children, we can be alerted; and the Lord will tell us as He did the son of the widow of Nain: Soul, I say unto thee, Arise! This is salvation. 

But what shall we do if sin completely enslaves our soul, as if covering it with a tombstone; and so day after day goes by and passions start to exude their sinful stench, just as with Lazarus? What should we do then? Well, then we need confession, the sacrament which Christ established after His Resurrection, when He said to His disciples, Receive ye the Holy Spirit: Whose so ever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven (Jn. 20:22-23). See how all this is reflected in the resurrection of Lazarus. Lazarus, on his own, could not go out from the tomb because it was blocked by a stone. He couldnt even walk, because he was bound hand and foot with funeral bandages. And here Christ said to His disciples, Loose him. In application to us, this means that the Lord orders our clergy, who have received in the Sacrament of the Priesthood the gift of the Holy Spirit, to loose our sins. What joy! 

And more: death is not the cause but only the result, the consequence of sin. And Christ is, first of all, the Conqueror of sin, and then along with it, the Conqueror of death. So let us triumph: Hosanna in the highest!

----------


## TER

*Lazarus Saturday*


by Archpriest Alexander Schmemann
From The Christian Way, 1961 

*The Beginning of the Cross: Saturday of Lazarus* 

"Having fulfilled Forty Days... we ask to see the Holy Week of Thy Passion." With these words sung at Vespers of Friday, Lent comes to its end and we enter into the annual commemoration of Christ's suffering, death and Resurrection. It begins on the Saturday of Lazarus. The double feast of Lazarus' resurrection and the Entrance of the Lord to Jerusalem (Palm Sunday) is described in liturgical texts as the "beginning of the Cross" and is to be understood therefore, within the context of the Holy Week. The common Troparion of these days explicitly affirms that by raising Lazarus from the dead, Christ confirmed the truth of general resurrection. It is highly significant that we are led into the darkness of the Cross by one of the twelve major feasts of the Church. Light and joy shine not only at the end of Holy Week but also at its beginning; they illumine darkness itself, reveal its ultimate meaning. 

All those familiar with Orthodox worship know the peculiar, almost paradoxical character of Lazarus Saturday services. It is a Sunday, i.e., a Resurrection, service on a Saturday, a day usually devoted to the liturgical commemoration of the dead. And the joy which permeates these services stresses one central theme: the forthcoming victory of Christ over Hades. Hades is the Biblical term for Death in its universal power, for that unescapable darkness and destruction that swallows all life and poisons with its shadow the whole world. But now—with Lazarus' resurrection—"death begins to tremble." For there the decisive duel between Life and Death begins, and it gives us the key to the entire liturgical mystery of Pascha. In the early church Lazarus Saturday was called "announcement of Pascha", it announces and anticipates, indeed, the wonderful light and peace of the next Saturday—the Great and Holy Saturday, the day of the Lifegiving Tomb. 

*Lazarus, the Friend of Jesus* 

Let us first of all understand that Lazarus, the friend of Jesus, personifies the whole mankind and also each man, and Bethany, the home of Lazarus the Man, is the symbol of the whole world as a home of man. For each man was created friend of God and called to this Divine friendship: the knowledge of God, the communion with Him, the sharing of life with Him. “In Him was life and the life was the light of men.” (John 1:4) And yet this Friend whom God loves, whom in love He has created, i.e. called to life, is destroyed and annihilated by a power which God has not created: death. God encounters in His own world a power which destroys His work and annihilates His design. The world is but lamentation and sorrow, tears and death. How is this possible? How did this happen? These are the questions implied in John’s slow and detailed narrative of Jesus’ coming to the grave of His friend. And once there, “Jesus wept.” (John 11:35) Why does He weep if He knows that in a moment He will call Lazarus back to life? Byzantine hymnographers fail to grasp the true meaning of these tears. They ascribe them to His human nature, whereas the power of resurrection belongs to God in Him. But the Orthodox Church teaches that all actions of Christ are “theandric,” i.e., both Divine and human, are actions of the one and same God-Man. But then His very tears are Divine. Jesus weeps because He contemplates the triumph of death and destruction in the world created by God. 

*Love, the Power of Life* 

“It stinketh.” say the Jews trying to prevent Jesus from approaching the corpse, and this awful warning applies to the whole world, to all life. God is Life and the Giver of Life. He called man into the Divine reality of Life and behold “it stinketh”…The world was created to reflect and proclaim the glory of God and “it stinketh.” At the grave of Lazarus God encounters Death, the reality of anti-life, of destruction and despair. He meets His Enemy, who has taken away from Him His World and become its prince. And we who follow Jesus as He approaches the grave, enter with Him into that hour of His, which He announced so often as the climax and the fulfillment of his whole work. The Cross, its necessity and universal meaning are announced in the shortest verse of the Gospel: “and Jesus wept”… We understand now that it is because He wept, i.e., loved His friend Lazarus, that Jesus had the power of calling him back to life. The power of Resurrection is not a divine “power in itself,” but power of love, or rather love as power. God is Love and Love is life, Love creates Life…It is Love that weeps at the grave and it is Love that restores life. This is the meaning of the Divine tears of Jesus. In them love is at work again—recreating, redeeming, restoring the darkened life of man: “Lazarus, come forth!...” And this is why Lazarus Saturday is the beginning of both: the Cross, as the Supreme sacrifice of love, the Resurrection, as the ultimate triumph of love.

----------


## TER

by James M. Kushiner

 Lazarus Saturday: the day before Palm Sunday each year, for the Eastern churches mark the transition from Lent, which formally ended last evening at vespers, to Holy Week proper, which begins tonight with the vespers of Palm Sunday. This morning the liturgy of Lazarus Saturday was celebrated, the only time in the year when the resurrection service of Sunday is celebrated on any other day. 

Jesus Wept: In the Gospel of St. John, that Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus indicates His full humanity. A verse from last evening's Canon of St. Lazarus says: "O Lord, Thou hast shed tears for Lazarus, showing that Thou art man; and Thou hast raised him from the dead, O Master, showing to the peoples that Thou art the Son of God." (Canticle Four) 

When those at the tomb saw Jesus weeping, they said, "See how he loved him." But there is perhaps more going on. For "when he saw [Mary] weeping and the Jews who came with her also weeping," Jesus was "deeply moved in spirit" and "troubled," and "deeply moved again." Dare we think that an element in the weeping of Jesus was a mixture of both sorrow and anger at death and the fate of man? Perhaps better than the word anger, which is a faculty of man to be used carefully, we might speak of the sort steely determination a soldier might have in going on the battlefield to rescue a fallen comrade. When the time comes, this certain something rises in the heart, and he becomes "bound and determined." 

Christ is seeing the enemy of man here face to face in the corrupting, buried corpse of Lazarus, and it is this very enemy that steals our loved ones from before our face, and brings tears and bitter grief to the world generation after generationthis enemy is what Jesus has come to "take down," if you will, in his dying on the Cross: he is to trample down death by death. 

In Gethsemane, the the full force of the passion of the Cup he is about to taste is the subject of the prayer of His Agony, and He, knowing the enemy, says to the Father, if this must be so in order to save men from death, so be it, "Thy will be done," that He might rescue those whom he lovesLazarus, Mary, Martha, his disciples whom he has called friends, and you and me and all the world from death. His tears at the tomb of Lazarus are the tears of a man, but not sentimental. They are the strong tears of the hero who sets his face to pay the hard price, come what may. Thus: 

_"O Lord, we sing the praises of Thy might; O Christ, we sing the praises of Thy Passion. For through the one in Thy tender mercy Thou hast worked a miracle; and the other Thou hast as man accepted willingly for our salvation." (_Canticle Four)

----------


## TER

By Priest Matthew Jackson 

In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen. Christ is in our midst! He is and shall be! 

Lazarus Saturday marks the beginning of Holy Week  the final week in our Lords earthly life and ministry before His crucifixion. In terms of our Lords ministry, this miracle  the raising of Lazarus from the dead  this miracle is the miracle of miracles. This is the moment when everyone knows who He is. Many people had gathered at the house of Mary and Martha to be with them during the period of mourning for their brother Lazarus. We hear at the end of the Gospel reading that many had come to be with Mary and Martha, the people saw what Jesus had done, and they believed on Him. 

If you continue reading the rest of the chapter, youll also hear this: 

_But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death._ (John 11:46-53) 

The leaders of the Temple had been unsure of what to do with Jesus until this point, but now that He has performed a public miracle with so many witnesses and such magnitude as raising one from the dead, they make their decision to put Him to death. They dont care if Hes the Messiah; they dont care that He might be the Messiah; in fact, they know that Hes doing all of the things that the Messiah was prophesied to do. Their concern is not for their God or for their faith, their concern is for their own self preservation. And so they make the decision, after our Lord has raised a man 4 days dead from the tomb, to find a time and a place to put Him to death. 

There are really two points Id like us to keep in mind and to think on coming from this mornings reading and events: 

*1*  prepare today to hear the cries of Hosannah tomorrow. When Jesus enters the Holy City of Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, the people greet Him as a king because theyve heard about the miracle of the raising of Lazarus. And dont only prepare yourselves to hear their worship, but prepare also to hear how the people will quickly turn and betray Him, which will lead to the other gruesome events of Holy Week. The peoples faith in Christ is a shallow one  a sort of hero worship based on a single powerful event  this type of shallow faith fails and collapses under even the least bit of external pressure. 

*2*  remember the plight and the actions of the priests and the Pharisees. They are educated and the leaders of the faith, but by their actions they show that in fact they dont care for God at all. This can also be a very real temptation for us  to get comfortable with life in this world and to live as though God is not there at all. In the services of this week, we step into the final week in the life of our Saviour. The services remind us constantly of His love for us, and of how we repaid that love with torture and death. The services make us uncomfortable, they remind us that God is there and that we live in a constant tension between the way of the Cross and the way of the world, and that discomfort is good  it helps us keep a clear focus on the things in this life that are truly important. 

I encourage us all to attend the services this week, to listen to the readings, and to walk with the Lord and God of all creation as He prepares to shed His blood and to die for us and for our salvation. Remembering at all times that just as Lazarus was raised from the dead, our Lords death ultimately leads to His Holy Resurrection, which is also the fruit that God wishes to bestow upon us all  a glorious resurrection to life in His kingdom. 

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory forever!

----------


## TER

*Lazarus Saturday*The resurrection of Lazarus, the four days dead, of Bethany


by Fr. Seraphim Holland

In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. 

Today we look toward the resurrection, and we look also set our eyes on the resurrection we will celebrate with great fervor and zeal and festivity in only another week. But today we look at our resurrection, very explicitly because Lazarus was a man like us and was dead and already decomposing, and our Lord raised him from the dead. 

Imagine what he felt. He was in Hades, and he heard the voice of God, all the way in Hades, and He brought him back in an instant, in a flash. He knew the power of God, and those around saw that power, as Jesus, with a loud voice said, "Lazarus, come forth." And the same voice calls us -- the same voice calls us to come forth. The same voice says, " I am the resurrection. If you believe in Me you will have eternal life." We must believe. We must understand. I tell you. We must also live according to the way Christ is, and then you will understand what it means to be a Christian. 

Did you see the two ways that the sisters dealt with the death of their brother? One stayed still in the house, and one ran out to Jesus. They both believed. But their faith was weak, and they'd never heard of a man who was four days dead being raised from the dead. They'd heard of a person who had died that day being raised from the dead. Christ had done it twice.[1]They knew of Saint Elias who had raised someone from the dead [2], and of the prophet Elisha [3], but in both of those cases the man was dead one day. Now a man had been dead four days, and it was beyond their understanding how he could be raised from the dead. They thought of a far-off time when there would be the resurrection of all things. They didn't think really of how it applied to then and now. 

 The resurrection applies to us now brothers and sisters. Not later -- now. It changes us now, makes us able to live now . It comforts us now . It burns away our passions and our sins now . "The kingdom of God is within you," [4] Christ said. The Resurrection and the Life lives within us now . We must understand this. We must live this. 

And we must approach Christ in these two ways that his beloved friends approached him. Mary sat still in the house: we must pray, we must develop within ourselves great love, great fervor, unshakable belief. We must also be active in our faith. We must go to Christ. We must beg Him for the things we need. And we must live according to the way He has told us to live. He has told us, live within the ark of the church, to fast, to pray, to partake of all the things that the church has given us. This is the activity that Martha points to. Both are necessary. Neither one is enough to save a soul. We must have fervent belief, and we must live within that belief. 

Slightly more than seven days from now -- no, actually it will be Friday evening -- I will read a sermon of Saint Epiphanius [5] in which he speaks of when Jesus Christ, the resurrection and the life, when down into Hades. We have a taste of that today. We should meditate very carefully, and think what it would be like to be in the depths of Hades, to be in the depths of hopelessness, to see our flesh and see how weak it is, and for God to say, "Come forth", and break everything that is holding us fast. A Christian must really understand this. This is what the resurrection means for us. It is how we reach our perfection. 

 It is very painful. It is painful for me, and I tell you, it might sound strange, but I hope and I pray that it is painful for you. I hope that you see the uselessness of so much in what we call this life, that you see the depravity, both in yourself and outside of yourself, and that you long to be made whole, to be made complete. A Christian must be like that. He must be like a stranger in a strange land, like Moses. He must consider himself to only be passing through on the way to the heavenly city, to Zion, to Jerusalem, to perfection. 

This is what we are going after, you know. And we see that God can perfect. He didn't just raise Himself from the dead; He raised us from the dead. This must be understood. And it's not just something you read in a book and understand. It's not just a point of doctrine or a question to be answered. It's in the heart. If you know that God raised you from the dead, you won't want to do anything but to become like Him, and you will know that you can become like Him. You have beenpromised that you can become like Him. This is the meaning of the resurrection. 

This is why God raised Lazarus from the dead. To show us the power of the resurrection in us, because we're weak. He knows. We might say, "He did it, but he is God. So how does that apply to me?" Just like Mary and Martha, I know that some day we'll be raised from the dead in the resurrection, but they didn't apply it to their life now. This is why Lazarus was raised from the dead. And it's also why Jesus waited. Not only so Lazarus would die. He certainly, as God, could have arranged that He was near the town, but He was far away from the town and after He was told about Lazarus, He went slowly to Bethany and took four days. He waited so that He could teach us something that is very important: that we must wait, that we must be patient, that we must have faith even when it appears that things are not as we would wish them to be, and that they won't change. Jesus Christ can take a man, stinking, from the grave, after four days, and raise him from the dead, He can raise us. 

But don't believe in the resurrection later; believe in the resurrection now . Live in that belief. Try to change because of that belief. Believe that you can be changed. I don't care what it is that assails you. God can heal you. Not later, but now . Don't believe in the resurrection -- later. Believe in the resurrection and the life, Who is with us, now. We're about to partake of His holy body and blood for our sustenance, that medicine of immortality. Our immortality, you know, begins with our baptism. And we are just increasingly fulfilling it every day that we live. Live in the light of the resurrection. Believe it. Believe that you will change. And when you hear God's voice saying, "Come forth" at the resurrection, you will be filled with joy. May God help you.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Of course. Every book of the New Testament is from not just before AD 200, but before AD 100.
> 
> Then there are quite a bit of additional writings from before AD 200.
> 
> And you said Constantine, so that would also include all the other writings that are from before AD 300.
> 
> And that doesn't just include Christian writings, but nonchristian ones as well, also including several from well before AD 200.


I'm rather fond of some of the books purged by Constantine and his gangs of bishops, because they didn't quite fit in with their preconceived agenda.

Just out of a sense of libertarian curiosity, "By whose authority?"

----------


## Ronin Truth

> You sound like youre looking for evidence or something.


That's my cover story and I'm sticking to it.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> Yes. You claimed that I made extraordinary claims.


Well that sure doesn't require much eveidence.

----------


## Ronin Truth

> If the oldest copies of the Gospels are from around AD 200, how do you explain your theory of them being the result of tampering done after AD 300?


Demonic gremlins, of course that's just an off the wall SWAG.

----------


## TER

Resurrection of Lazarus 

by St. John Chrysostom   

*HOMILY LXII.* 

*John xi. 1, 2.* 

*"Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, of the town of Mary and her sister Martha. It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment."* 

[1.] Many men, when they see any of those who are pleasing to God suffering anything terrible, as, for instance, having fallen into sickness, or poverty, and any other the like, are offended, not knowing that to those especially dear to God it belongeth to endure these things; since Lazarus also was one of the friends of Christ, and was sick. This at least they who sent said, "Behold, he whom Thou lovest is sick." But let us consider the passage from the beginning. "A certain man," It saith, "was sick, Lazarus of Bethany." Not without a cause nor by chance hath the writer mentioned whence Lazarus was, but for a reason which he will afterwards tell us. At present let us keep to the passage before us. He also for our advantage informeth us who were Lazarus' sisters; and, moreover, what Mary had more (than the other), going on to say, "It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment." Here some doubting say, "How did the Lord endure that a woman should do this?" In the first place then it is necessary to understand, that this is not the harlot mentioned in Matthew (Matt. xxvi. 7), or the one in Luke (Luke vii. 37), but a different person; they were harlots full of many vices, but she was both grave and earnest; for she showed her earnestness about the entertainment of Christ. The Evangelist also means to show, that the sisters too loved Him, yet He allowed Lazarus to die. But why did they not, like the centurion and the nobleman, leave their sick brother, and come to Christ, instead of sending? They were very confident in Christ, and had towards Him a strong familiar feeling. Besides, they were weak women, and oppressed with grief; for that they acted not in this way as thinking slightly of Him, they afterwards showed. It is then clear, that this Mary was not the harlot. "But wherefore," saith some one, "did Christ admit that harlot?" That He might put away her iniquity; that He might show His lovingkindness; that thou mightest learn that there is no malady which prevaileth over His goodness. Look not therefore at this only, that He received her, but consider the other point also, how He changed her. But, (to return,) why doth the Evangelist relate this history to us? Or rather, what doth he desire to show us by saying, 

*Ver. 5. "Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus."* 

That we should never be discontented or vexed if any sickness happen to good men, and such as are dear to God. 

*Ver. 3. "Behold, he whom thou lovest is sick."* 

They desired to draw on Christ to pity, for they still gave heed to Him as to a man. This is plain from what they say, "If thou hadst been here, he had not died," and from their saying, not, "Behold, Lazarus is sick," but "Behold, he whom thou lovest is sick." What then said Christ? 

*Ver. 4. "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby."* 

Observe how He again asserteth that His glory and the Father's is One; for after saying "of God," He hath added, "that the Son of God might be glorified." 

"This sickness is not unto death." Since He intended to tarry two days where He was, He for the present sendeth away the messengers with this answer. Wherefore we must admire Lazarus' sisters, that after hearing that the sickness was "not unto death," and yet seeing him dead, they were not offended, although the event had been directly contrary. But even so they came to Him, and did not think that He had spoken falsely. 

The expression "that" in this passage denotes not cause, but consequence; the sickness happened from other causes, but He used it for the glory of God. 

*Ver. 6. "And having said this, He tarried two days."* 

Wherefore tarried He? That Lazarus might breathe his last, and be buried; that none might be able to assert that He restored him when not yet dead, saying that it was a lethargy, a fainting, a fit, but not death. On this account He tarried so long, that corruption began, and they said, "He now stinketh." 

*Ver. 7. "Then saith He to his disciples, Let us go into Judea."* 

Why, when He never in other places told them beforehand where He was going, doth He tell them here? They had been greatly terrified, and since they were is this way disposed, He forewarneth them, that the suddenness might not trouble them. What then say the disciples? 

*Ver. 8. "The Jews of late sought to stone Thee, and goest Thou thither again?"* 

They therefore had feared for Him also, but for the more part rather for themselves; for they were not yet perfect. So Thomas, shaking with fear, said, "Let us go, that we also may die with Him" (ver. 16), because Thomas was weaker and more unbelieving than the rest. But see how Jesus encourageth them by what He saith. 

*Ver. 9. "Are there not twelve hours of the day?"* 

He either saith this, that "he who is conscious to himself of no evil, shall suffer nothing dreadful; only he that doeth evil shall suffer, so that we need not fear, because we have done nothing worthy of death"; or else that, "he who 'seeth the light of this world' is in safety; and if he that seeth the light of this world is in safety, much more he that is with Me, if he separate not himself from Me." Having encouraged them by these words, He addeth, that the cause of their going thither was pressing, and showeth them that they were about to go not unto Jerusalem, but unto Bethany. 

*Ver. 11, 12. "Our friend Lazarus," He saith, "sleepeth, but I go that I may awake him out of sleep."* 

That is, "I go not for the same purpose as before, again to reason and contend with the Jews, but to awaken our friend."       

*Ver. 12. "Then said His disciples, Lord, if he sleep he shall do well."* 

This they said not without a cause, but desiring to hinder the going thither. "Sayest Thou," asks one of them, "that he sleepeth? Then there is no urgent reason for going." Yet on this account He had said, "Our friend," to show that the going there was necessary. When therefore their disposition was somewhat reluctant, He said, 

* Ver. 14. "He is dead."* 

The former word He spake, desiring to prove that He loved not boasting; but since they understood not, He added, "He is dead." 

*Ver. 15. "And I am glad for your sakes."* 

Why "for your sakes"? "Because I have forewarned you of his death, not being there, and because when I shall raise him again, there will be no suspicion of deceit." Seest thou how the disciples were yet imperfect in their disposition, and knew not His power as they ought? and this was caused by interposing terrors, which troubled and disturbed their souls. When He said, "He sleepeth," He added, "I go to awake him"; but when He said, "He is dead," He added not, "I go to raise him"; for He would not foretell in words what He was about to establish certainly by works, everywhere teaching us not to be vainglorious, and that we must not make promises without a cause. And if He did thus in the case of the centurion when summoned, (for He said, "I will come and heal him--Matt. viii. 7) it was to show the faith of the centurion that He said this. If any one ask, "How did the disciples imagine sleep? How did they not understand that death was meant from His saying, 'I go to awake him?' for it was folly if they expected that He would go fifteen stadia to awake him"; we would reply, that they deemed this to be a dark saying, such as He often spake to them. 

Now they all feared the attacks of the Jews, but Thomas above the rest; wherefore also he said, 

*Ver. 16. "Let us go, that we also may die with Him."* 

Some say that he desired himself to die; but it is not so; the expression is rather one of cowardice. Yet he was not rebuked, for Christ as yet supported his weakness, but afterwards he became stronger than all, and invincible. For the wonderful thing is this; that we see one who was so weak before the Crucifixion, become after the Crucifixion, and after having believed in the Resurrection, more zealous than any. So great was the power of Christ. The very man who dared not go in company with Christ to Bethany, the same while not seeing Christ ran well nigh through the inhabited world, and dwelt in the midst of nations that were full of murder, and desirous to kill him. 

But if Bethany was "fifteen furlongs off," which is two miles, how was Lazarus "dead four days"? Jesus tarried two days, on the day before those two one had come with the message, (on which same day Lazarus died,) then in the course of the fourth day He arrived. He waited to be summoned, and came not uninvited on this account, that no one might suspect what took place; nor did those women who were beloved by Him come themselves, but others were sent. 

*Ver. 18. "Now Bethany was about fifteen furlongs off."* 

]Not without cause doth he mention this, but desires to inform us that it was near, and that it was probable on this account that many would be there. He therefore declaring this adds, 

*Ver. 19. "Many of the Jews came to comfort them."* 

But how should they comfort women beloved of Christ, when they had agreed, that if any should confess Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue? It was either because of the grievous nature of the calamity, or that they respected them as of superior birth, or else these who came were not the wicked sort, many at least even of them believed. The Evangelist mentions these circumstances, to prove that Lazarus was really dead. 

[3.] But why did not [Martha,] when she went to meet Christ, take her sister with her? She desired to meet with Him apart, and to tell Him what had taken place. But when He had brought her to good hopes, she went and called Mary, who met Him while her grief was yet at its height. Seest thou how fervent her love was? This is the Mary of whom He said, "Mary hath chosen that good part." (Luke x. 42.) "How then," saith one, "doth Martha appear more zealous?" She was not more zealous, but it was because the other had not yet been informed, since Martha was the weaker. For even when she had heard such things from Christ, she yet speaks in a groveling manner, "By this time he stinketh, for he hath been dead four days." (Ver. 39.) But Mary, though she had heard nothing, uttered nothing of the kind, but at once believing, saith, 

*Ver. 21. "Lord, if Thou hadst been here, my brother had not died."* 

See how great is the heavenly wisdom of the women, although their understanding be weak. For when they saw Christ, they did not break out into mourning and wailing and loud crying, as we do when we see any of those we know coming in upon our grief; but straightway they reverence their Teacher. So then both these sisters believed in Christ, but not in a right way; for they did not yet certainly know either that He was God, or that He did these things by His own power and authority; on both which points He taught them. For they showed their ignorance of the former, by saying, "If thou hadst been here, our brother had not died"; and of the latter, by saying,

*Ver. 22. "Whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, He will give it thee."* 

As though they spoke of some virtuous and approved mortal. But see what Christ saith;       

*Ver. 23. "Thy brother shall rise again."* 

He thus far refuteth the former saying, "Whatsoever thou wilt ask"; for He said not, "I ask," but what? "Thy brother shall rise again." To have said, "Woman, thou still lookest below, I need not the help of another, but do all of Myself," would have been grievous, and a stumblingblock in her way, but to say, "He shall rise again," was the act of one who chose a middle mode of speech. And by means of that which follows, He alluded to the points I have mentioned; for when Martha saith, 

*Ver. 24. "I know that he shall rise again in the last day," to prove more clearly His authority, He replieth, 

Ver. 25. "I am the Resurrection and the Life."* 

Showing that He needed no other to help Him, if so be that He Himself is the Life; since if He needed another, how could He be "the Resurrection and the Life"? Yet He did not plainly state this, but merely hinted it. But when she saith again, "Whatsoever thou wilt ask," He replieth, 

"He that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." 

Showing that He is the Giver of good things, and that we must ask of Him. 

*Ver. 26. "And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me, shall never die."* 

Observe how He leadeth her mind upward; for to raise Lazarus was not the only thing sought; it was necessary that both she and they who were with her should learn the Resurrection. Wherefore before the raising of the dead He teacheth heavenly wisdom by words. But if He is "the Resurrection," and "the Life," He is not confined by place, but, present everywhere, knoweth how to heal. If therefore they had said, as did the centurion, "Speak the word, and my servant shall be healed" (Matt. viii. 8), He would have done so; but since they summoned Him to them, and begged Him to come, He condescendeth in order to raise them from the humble opinion they had formed of Him, and cometh to the place. Still while condescending, He showed that even when absent He had power to heal. On this account also He delayed, for the mercy would not have been apparent as soon as it was given, had there not been first an ill savor (from the corpse). But how did the woman know that there was to be a Resurrection? They had heard Christ say many things about the Resurrection, yet still she now desired to see Him. And observe how she still lingers below; for after hearing, "I am the Resurrection and the Life," not even so did she say, "Raise him," but, 

*Ver. 27. "I believe that Thou art the Christ, the Son of God."* 

What is Christ's reply? "He that believeth on Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live," (here speaking of this death which is common to all.) "And whosoever liveth and believeth on Me, shall never die" (ver. 26), signifying that other death. "Since then I am the Resurrection and the Life, be not thou troubled, though thy brother be already dead, but believe, for this is not death." For a while He comforted her on what had happened; and gave her glimpses of hope, by saying, "He shall rise again," and, "I am the Resurrection"; and that having risen(4) again, though he should again die, he shall suffer no harm, so that it needs not to fear this death. What He saith is of this kind: "Neither is this man dead, nor shall ye die." "Believest thou this?" She saith, "I believe that Thou art the Christ, the Son of God." 

"Which should come into the world." 

The woman seems to me not to understand the saying; she was conscious that it was some great thing, but did not perceive the whole meaning, so that when asked one thing, she answered another. Yet for a while at least she had this gain, that she moderated her grief; such was the power of the words of Christ. On this account Martha went forth first, and Mary followed. For their affection to their Teacher did not allow them strongly to feel their present sorrow; so that the minds of these women were truly wise as well as loving. 

[4.] But in our days, among our other evils there is one malady very prevalent among our women; they make a great show in their dirges and wailings, baring their arms, tearing their hair, making furrows down their cheeks. And this they do, some from grief, others from ostentation and rivalry, others from wantonness; and they bare their arms, and this too in the sight of men. Why doest thou, woman? Dost thou strip thyself in unseemly sort, tell me, thou who art a member of Christ, in the midst of the market-place, when men are present there? Dost thou pluck thy hair, and rend thy garments, and wail loudly, and join the dance, and keep throughout a resemblance to Bacchanalian women, and dost thou not think that thou art offending God? What madness is this? Will not the heathen laugh? Will they not deem our doctrines fables? They will say, "There is no resurrection--the doctrines of the Christians are mockeries, trickery, and contrivance. For their women lament as though there were nothing after this world; they give no heed to the words engraven in their books; all those words are fictions, and these women show that they are so. Since had they believed that he who hath died is not dead, but hath removed to a better life, they would not have mourned him as no longer being, they would not have thus beaten themselves, they would not have uttered such words as these, full of unbelief, 'I shall never see thee more, I shall never more regain thee,' all their religion is a fable, and if the very chief of good things is thus wholly disbelieved by them, much more the other things which are reverenced among them." 

The heathen are not so womanish, among them many have practiced heavenly wisdom; and a woman hearing that her child had fallen in battle, straightway asked, "And in what state are the affairs of the city?" Another truly wise, when being garlanded he heard that his son had fallen for his country, took off the garland, and asked which of the two; then when he had learnt which it was, immediately put the garland on again. Many also gave their sons and their daughters for slaughter in honor of their evil deities; and Lacedaemonian women exhort their sons either to bring back their shield safe from war, or to be brought back dead upon it. Wherefore I am ashamed that the heathen show true wisdom in these matters, and we act unseemly. Those who know nothing about the Resurrection act the part of those who know; and those who know, the part of those who know not. And ofttimes many do through shame of men what they do not for the sake of God. For women of the higher class neither tear their hair nor bare their arms; which very thing is a most heavy charge against them, not because they do not strip themselves, but because they act as they do not through piety, but that they may not be thought to disgrace themselves. Is their shame stronger than grief, and the fear of God not stronger? And must not this deserve severest censure? What the rich women do because of their riches, the poor ought to do through fear of God; but at present it is quite the contrary; the rich act wisely through vainglory, the poor through littleness of soul act unseemly. What is worse than this anomaly? We do all for men, all for the things of earth. And these people utter words full of madness and much ridicule. 

The Lord saith indeed, "Blessed are they that mourn" (Matt. v. 4), speaking of those who mourn for their sins; and no one mourneth that kind of mourning, nor careth for a lost soul; but this other we were not bidden to practice, and we practice it. "What then?" saith some one, "Is it possible being man not to weep?" No, neither do I forbid weeping, but I forbid the beating yourselves, the weeping immoderately. I am neither brutal nor cruel. I know that our nature asks and seeks for its friends and daily companions; it cannot but be grieved. As also Christ showed, for He wept over Lazarus. So do thou; weep, but gently, but with decency, but with the fear of God. If so thou weepest, thou dost so not as disbelieving the Resurrection, but as not enduring the separation. Since even over those who are leaving us, and departing to foreign lands, we weep, yet we do this not as despairing. 

[5.] And so do thou weep, as if thou wert sending one on his way to another land. These things I say, not as giving a rule of action, but as condescending (to human infirmity). For if the dead man have been a sinner, and one who hath in many things offended God, it behooveth to weep (or rather not to weep only, since that is of no avail to him, but to do what one can to procure some comfort for him by almsgivings and offerings) but it behooveth also to rejoice at this, that his wickedness hath been cut short. If he have been righteous, it again behooveth to be glad, that what is his is now placed in security, free from the uncertainty of the future; if young, that he hath been quickly delivered from the common evils of life; if old, that he hath departed after taking to satiety that which is held desirable. But thou, neglecting to consider these things, incitest thy hand-maidens to act as mourners, as if forsooth thou wert honoring the dead, when it is an act of extreme dishonor. For honor to the dead is not wailings and lamentings, but hymns and psalmodies and an excellent life. The good man when he departeth, shall depart with angels, though no man be near his remains; but the corrupt, though he have a city to attend his funeral, shall be nothing profited. Wilt thou honor him who is gone? Honor him in another way, by alms-deeds, by acts of beneficence and public service. What avail the many lamentations? And I have heard also another grievous thing, that many women attract lovers by their sad cries, acquiring by the fervor of their wailings a reputation for affection to their husbands. O devilish purpose! O Satanic invention! How long are we but dust and ashes, how long but blood and flesh? Look we up to heaven, take we thought of spiritual things. How shall we be able to rebuke the heathen, how to exhort them, when we do such things? How shall we dispute with them concerning the Resurrection? How about the rest of heavenly wisdom? How shall we ourselves live without fear? Knowest not thou that of grief cometh death? for grief darkening the seeing part of the soul not only hindereth it from perceiving anything that it ought, but also worketh it great mischief. In one way then we offend God, and advantage neither ourselves nor him who is gone; in the other we please God, and gain honor among men. If we sink not down ourselves, He will soon remove the remains of our despondency; if we are discontented, He permitteth us to be given up to grief. If we are thankful, we shall not despond. "But how," saith some one, "is it possible not to be grieved, when one has lost a son or daughter or wife?" I say not, "not to grieve," but "not to do so immoderately." For if we consider that God hath taken away, and that the husband or son which we had was mortal, we shall soon receive comfort. To be discontented is the act of those who seek for something higher than their nature. Thou wast born man, and mortal; why then grievest thou that what is natural hath come to pass? Grievest thou that thou art nourished by eating? Seekest thou to live without this? Act thus also in the case of death, and being mortal seek not as vet for immortality. Once for all this thing hath been appointed. Grieve not therefore, nor play the mourner, but submit to laws laid on all alike. Grieve for thy sins; this is good mourning, this is highest wisdom. Let us then mourn for this cause continually, that we may obtain the joy which is there, through the grace and lovingkindness of our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 

*HOMILY LXIII*. 

*John xi. 30, 31.* 

*"Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met Him. The Jews then which were with her," and what follows.*

[1.] A great good is philosophy; the philosophy, I mean, which is with us. For what the heathen have is words and fables only; nor have these fables anything truly wise in them; since everything among those men is done for the sake of reputation. A great good then is true wisdom, and even here returns to us a recompense. For he that despises wealth, from this at once reaps advantage, being delivered from cares which are superfluous and unprofitable; and he that tramples upon glory from this at once receives his reward, being the slave of none, but free with the real freedom; and he that desires heavenly things hence receives his recompense, regarding present things as nothing, and being easily superior to every grief. Behold, for example, how this woman by practicing true wisdom even here received her reward. For when all were sitting by her as she mourned and lamented, she did not wait that the Master should come to her, nor did she maintain what might have seemed her due, nor was she restrained by her sorrow, (for, in addition to the other wretchedness, mourning women have this malady, that they wish to be made much of on account of their case,) but she was not at all so affected; as soon as she heard, she quickly came to Him. "Jesus was not yet come into the town." He proceeded somewhat slowly, that He might not seem to fling Himself upon the miracle, but rather to be entreated by them. At least, it is either with an intention of implying this that the Evangelist has said the, "riseth up quickly," or else he showeth that she ran so as to anticipate Christ's arrival. She came not alone, but drawing after her the Jews that were in the house. Very wisely did her sister call her secretly, so as not to disturb those who had come together, and not mention the cause either; for assuredly many would have gone back, but now as though she were going to weep, all followed her. By these means again it is proved that Lazarus was dead. 

*Ver. 32. "And she fell at His feet."* 

She is more ardent than her sister. She regarded not the multitude, nor the suspicion which they had concerning Him, for there were many of His enemies, who said, "Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?" (ver. 37); but cast out all mortal things in the presence of her Master, and was given up to one thing only, the honor of that Master. And what saith she? 

"Lord, if Thou hadst been here, my brother had not died." 

What doth Christ? He converseth not at all with her for the present, nor saith to her what He said to her sister, (for a great multitude was by, and this was no fit time for such words,) He only acteth measurably and condescendeth; and to prove His human nature, weepeth in silence, and deferreth the miracle for the present. For since that miracle was a great one, and such as He seldom wrought, and since many were to believe by means of it, lest to work it without their presence should prove a stumbling-block to the multitude, and so they should gain nothing by its greatness, in order that He might not lose the quarry, He draweth to Him many witnesses by His condescension, and showeth proof of His human nature. He weepeth, and is troubled; for grief is wont to stir up the feelings. Then rebuking those feelings, (for He "groaned in spirit" meaneth, "restrained His trouble,") He asked, 

*Ver. 34. "Where have ye laid him?"* 

So that the question might not be attended with lamentation. But why doth He ask? Because He desired not to cast Himself on (the miracle), but to learn all from them, to do all at their invitation, so as to free the miracle from any suspicion. 

"They say unto Him, Come and see." 

*Ver. 35. "Jesus wept."* 

Seest thou that He had not as yet shown any sign of the raising, and goeth not as if to raise Lazarus, but as if to weep? For the Jews show that He seemed to them to be going to bewail, not to raise him; at least they said, 

*Ver. 36, 37. "Behold how he loved him! And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?"* 

Not even amid calamities did they relax their wickedness. Yet what He was about to do was a thing far more wonderful; for to drive away death when it hath come and conquered, is far more than to stay it when coming on. They therefore slander Him by those very points through which they ought to have marveled at His power. They allow for the time that He opened the eyes of the blind, and when they ought to have admired Him on account of that miracle, they, by means of this latter case, cast a slur upon it, as though it had not even taken place. And not from this only are they shown to be all corrupt, but because when He had not yet come, nor exhibited any action, they prevent Him with their accusations without waiting the end of the matter. Seest thou how corrupt was their judgment? 

[2.] He cometh then to the tomb; and again rebuketh His feelings. Why doth the Evangelist carefully in several places mention that "He wept," and that, "He groaned"? That thou mayest learn that He had of a truth put on our nature. For when this Evangelist is remarkable for uttering great things concerning Christ more than the others, in matters relating to the body, here he also speaketh much more humbly than they. For instance, concerning His death he hath said nothing of the kind; the other Evangelists declare that He was exceedingly sorrowful, that He was in an agony; but John, on the contrary, saith, that He even cast the officers backwards. So that he hath made up here what is omitted there, by mentioning His grief. When speaking of His death, Christ saith "I have power to lay down My life"(c. x. 18), and then He uttereth no lowly word; therefore at the Passion they attribute to Him much that is human, to show the reality of the Dispensation. And Matthew proves this by the Agony, the trouble, the trembling, and the sweat; but John by His sorrow. For had He not been of our nature, He would not once and again have been mastered by grief. What did Jesus? He made no defense with regard to their charges; for why should He silence by words those who were soon to be silenced by deeds? a means less annoying, and more adapted to shame them.       

*Ver. 39. "He saith, Take ye away the stone."* 

Why did not He when at a distance summon Lazarus, and place him before their eyes? Or rather, why did He not cause him to arise while the stone yet lay on the grave? For He who was able by His voice to move a corpse, and to show it again endowed with life, would much more by that same voice have been able to move a stone; He who empowered by His voice one bound and entangled in the grave-clothes to walk, would much more have been able to move a stone; why then did He not so? In order to make them witnesses of the miracle; that they might not say as they did in the case of the blind man, "It is he," "It is not he." For their hands and their coming to the tomb testified that it was indeed he. If they had not come, they might have deemed that they saw a vision, or one man in place of another. But now the coming to the place, the raising the stone, the charge given them to loose the dead man bound in grave-clothes from his bands; the fact that the friends who bore him from the tomb, knew from the grave-clothes that it was he; that his sisters were not left behind; that one of them said, "He now stinketh, for he hath been dead four days"; all these things, I say, were sufficient to silence the ill-disposed, as they were made witnesses of the miracle. On this account He biddeth them take away the stone from the tomb, to show that He raiseth the man. On this account also He asketh, "Where have ye laid him?" that they who said, "Come and see," and who conducted Him, might not be able to say that He had raised another person; that their voice and their hands might bear witness, (their voice by saying, "Come and see," their hands by lifting the stone, and loosing the grave-clothes,) as well as their eyes and ears, (the one by hearing His voice, the other by seeing Lazarus come forth,) and their smell also by perceiving the ill-odor, for Martha said, "He now stinketh, for he hath been dead four days." 

Therefore I said with good reason, that the woman did not at all understand Christ's words, "Though he were dead, yet shall he live." At least observe, that she speaketh as though the thing were impossible on account of the time which had intervened. For indeed it was a strange thing to raise a corpse which had been dead four days, and was corrupt. To the disciples Jesus said, "That the Son of Man may be glorified," referring to Himself; but to the woman, "Thou shalt see the glory of God," speaking of the Father. Seest thou that the weakness of the hearers is the cause of the difference of the words? He therefore remindeth her of what He had spoken unto her, well nigh rebuking her, as being forgetful. Yet He did not wish at present to confound the spectators, wherefore He saith, 

*Ver. 40. "Said I not unto thee, that if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?"* 

[3.] A great blessing truly is faith, great, and one which makes great those who hold it rightly with (good) living. By this men (are enabled) to do the things of God in His name. And well did Christ say, "If ye have faith ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove, and it shall remove" (Matt. xvii. 20); anti again, "He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do." (c. xiv. 12. ) What meaneth He by "greater"? Those which the disciples are seen after this to work. For even the shadow of Peter raised a dead man; and so the power of Christ was the more proclaimed. Since it was not so wonderful that He while alive should work miracles, as that when He was dead others should be enabled to work in His name greater than He wrought. This was an indisputable proof of the Resurrection; nor if (that Resurrection) had been seen by all, would it have been equally believed. For men might have said that it was an appearance, but one who saw that by His name alone greater miracles were wrought than when He conversed with men, could not disbelieve unless he were very senseless. A great blessing then is faith when it arises from glowing feelings, great love, and a fervent soul; it makes us truly wise, it hides our human meanness, and leaving reasonings beneath, it philosophizes about things in heaven; or rather what the wisdom of men cannot discover, it abundantly comprehends and succeeds in. Let us then cling to this, and not commit to reasonings what concerns ourselves. For tell me, why have not the Greeks been able to find out anything? Did they not know all the wisdom of the heathen?, Why then could they not prevail against fishermen and tentmakers, and unlearned persons? Was it not because the one committed all to argument, the others to faith? and so these last were victorious over Plato and Pythagoras, in short, over all that had gone astray; and they surpass those whose lives had been worn out in astrology and geometry, mathematics and arithmetic, and who had been thoroughly instructed in every sort of learning, and were as much superior to them as true and real philosophers are superior to those who are by nature foolish and out of their senses. For observe, these men asserted that the soul was immortal, or rather, they did not merely assert this, but persuaded others of it. 

The Greeks, on the contrary, did not at first know what manner of thing the soul was, and when they had found out, and had distinguished it from the body, they were again in the same case, the one asserting that it was incorporeal, the other that it was corporeal and was dissolved with the body. Concerning heaven again, the one said that it had life and was a god, but the fishermen both taught and persuaded that it was the work and device of God. Now that the Greeks should use reasonings is nothing wonderful, but that those who seem to be believers, that "they" should be found carnal, this is what may justly be lamented. And on this account they have gone astray, some saying that they know God as He knoweth Himself, a thing which not even any of those Greeks have dared to assert · others that God cannot beget without passion, not even allowing Him any superiority over men; others again, that a righteous life and exact conversation avail nothing. But it is not the time to refute these things now. [4.] Yet that a right faith availeth nothing if the life be corrupt, both Christ and Paul declare, having taken the more care for this latter part; Christ when He teacheth, "Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. vii. 21); and again, "Many will say unto Me in that day, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? And I will profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt. xxii. 23); (for they who take not heed to themselves, easily slip away into wickedness, even though they have a right faith) and Paul, when in his letter to the Hebrews he thus speaks and exhorts them; "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." (Heb. xii. 14.) By "holiness," meaning chastity, so that it behooved each to be content with his own wife, and not have to do with any other woman; for it is impossible that one not so contented should be saved; he must assuredly perish though he have ten thousand right actions, since with fornication it is impossible to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Or rather, this is henceforth not fornication but adultery; for as a woman who is bound to a man, if she come together with another man, then hath committed adultery, so he that is bound to a woman, if he have another, hath committed adultery. Such an one shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but shall fall into the pit. Hear what Christ saith concerning these, "Their worm shall not die, and the fire shall not be quenched." (Mark ix. 44.)

 For he can have no pardon, who after (possessing) a wife, and the comfort of a wife, then acts shamelessly towards another woman; since this is henceforth wantonness. And if the many abstain even from their wives when it be a season of fast or prayer, how great a fire doth he heap up for himself who is not even content with his wife, but mingleth with another; and if it is not permitted one who has put away and cast out his own wife to mingle with another, (for this is adultery,) how great evil doth he commit who, while his wife is in his house, brings in another. Let no one then allow this malady to dwell in his soul; let him tear it up by the root. He doth not so much wrong his wife as himself. For so grievous and unpardonable is this offense, that if a woman separate herself from a husband which is an idolater without his consent, God punisheth her; but if she separate herself from a fornicator, not so. Seest thou how great an evil this is? "If," It saith, "any faithful woman have a husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him." (1 Cor. vii. 13.) Not so concerning a harlot; but what? "If any man put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, he causeth her to commit adultery." (Matt. v. 32.) For if the coming together maketh one body, he who cometh together with a harlot must needs become one body with her. How then shall the modest woman, being a member of Christ, receive such an one, or how shall she join to herself the member of an harlot. And observe the excess of the one (fornication) over the other (idolatry). The woman who dwelleth with an unbeliever is not impure; ("for," It saith, "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife"--1 Cor. vi. 15) not so with the harlot; but what? "Shall I then make the members of Christ the members of an harlot?" In the one case sanctification remains, and is not removed though the unbeliever dwelleth with his wife; but in the other case it departeth. A dreadful, a dreadful thing is fornication, and an agent for everlasting punishment; and even in this world it brings with it ten thousand woes. The man so guilty is forced to lead a life of anxiety and toil; he is nothing better off than those who are under punishment, creeping into another man's house with fear and much trembling, suspecting all alike both slave and free. Wherefore I exhort you to be freed from this malady, and if you obey not, step not on the sacred threshold. Sheep that are covered with the scab, and full of disease, may not herd with those that are in health; we must drive them from the fold until they get rid of the malady. 

We have been made members of Christ; let us not, I entreat, become members of an harlot. This place is not a brothel but a church; if then thou hast the members of an harlot, stand not in the church, lest thou insult the place. If there were no hell, if there were no punishment, yet, after those contracts, those marriage torches, the lawful bed, the procreation of children, the intercourse, how couldest thou bear to join thyself to another? How is it that thou art not ashamed nor blushest? Knowest thou not that they who after the death of their own wife, introduce another into their own house, are blamed by many? yet this action hath no penalty attached to it: but thou bringest in another while thy wife is yet alive. What lustfulness is this! Learn what hath been spoken concerning such men, "Their worm," It saith, "shall not die, and the fire shall not be quenched." (Mark ix. 44.) Shudder at the threat, dread the vengeance. The pleasure here is not so great as the punishment there, but may it not came to pass that any one (here) become liable to that punishment, but that exercising holiness they may see Christ, and obtain the promised good things, which may we all enjoy, through the grace and lovingkindness of our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom with the Father and the Holy Ghost be glory, for ever and ever. Amen.

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## TER

*HOMILY LXIV.* 

*John xi. 41, 42.* 

*"Jesus lifted up His eyes, and said, Father, I thank Thee that Thou hast heard Me; and I knew that Thou hearest Me always, but because of the people which stand by, I said it." And what follows.* 

[1.] WHAT I have often said, I will now say, that Christ looketh not so much to His own honor as to our salvation; not how He may utter some sublime saying, but how something able to draw us to Him. On which account His sublime and mighty sayings are few, and those also hidden, but the humble and lowly are many, and abound through His discourses. For since by these men were the rather brought over, in these He continueth; and He doth not on the one hand utter these universally, lest the men that should come after should receive damage, nor, on the other hand, doth He entirely withhold those, lest the men of that time should be offended. Since they who have passed from lowmindedness unto perfection, will be able from even a single sublime doctrine to discern the whole, but those who were ever lowminded, unless they had often heard these lowly sayings, would not have come to Him at all. In fact, even after so many such sayings they do not remain firm, but even stone and persecute Him, and try to kill Him, and call Him blasphemer. And when He maketh Himself equal with God, they say, "This man blasphemeth" (Matt. ix. 3); and when He saith, "Thy sins be forgiven thee" (c. x. 20), they moreover call Him a demoniac. So when He saith that the man who heareth His words is stronger than death, or, "I am in the Father and the Father in Me" (c. viii. 51), they leave Him; and again, they are offended when He saith that He came down from heaven. (c. vi. 33, 60.) If now they could not bear these sayings, though seldom uttered, scarcely, had His discourse been always sublime, had it been of this texture, would they have given heed to Him? When therefore He saith, "As the Father commanded Me, so I speak" (c. xiv. 31); and, "I am not come of Myself" (c. vii. 28), then they believe. That they did believe then is clear, from the Evangelist signifying this besides, and saying, "As He spake these words, many believed on Him." (c. v. 30.) If then lowly speaking drew men to faith, and high speaking scared them away, must it not be a mark of extreme folly not to see at a glance how to reckon the sole reason of those lowly sayings, namely, that they were uttered because of the hearers. Since in another place when He had desired to say some high thing, He withheld it, adding this reason, and saying, "Lest we should offend them, cast a hook into the sea." (Matt. xvii. 27.) Which also He doth here; for after saying, "I know that Thou hearest Me always," He addeth. "but because of the multitude which standeth around I said it, that they might believe." Are these words ours? Is this a human conjecture? When then a man will not endure to be persuaded by what is written, that they were offended at sublime things, how, when he heareth Christ saying that He spake in a lowly manner that they might not be offended, how, after that, shall he suspect that the mean sayings belonged to His nature, not to His condescension? So in another place, when a voice came down from heaven, He said, "This voice came not because of Me, but for your sakes." (c. xii. 30.) who is exalted may be allowed to speak lowly things of himself, but it is not lawful for the humble to utter concerning himself anything grand or sublime. For the former ariseth from condescension, and has for its cause the weakness of the hearers; or rather (it has for its cause) the leading them to humblemindedness, and His being clothed in flesh, and the teaching the hearers to say nothing great concerning themselves, and His being deemed an enemy of God, and not being believed to have come from God, His being suspected of breaking the Law, and the fact that the hearers looked on Him with an evil eye, and were ill disposed towards Him, because He said that He was equal to God. But that a lowly man should say any great thing of Himself, hath no cause either reasonable or unreasonable; it can only be folly, impudence, and unpardonable boldness. 

Wherefore then doth Christ speak humbly, being of that ineffable and great Substance? For the reasons mentioned, and that He might not be deemed unbegotten; for Paul seems to have feared some such thing as this; wherefore he saith, "Except Him who did put all things under Him." (1 Cor. xv. 27.) This it is impious even to think of. Since if being less than Him who begat Him, and of a different Substance, He had been deemed equal, would He not have used every means that this might not be thought? But now He doth the contrary, saying, "If I do not the works of Him that sent Me, believe Me not." (c. x. 37.) Indeed His saying, that "I am in the Father and the Father in Me" (c. xiv. 10), intimateth to us the equality. It would have behooved, if He had been inferior, to refute this opinion with much vehemence, and not at all to have said, "I am in the Father and the Father in me" (c. x. 30), or that, "We are One," or that, "He that hath seen Me, hath seen the Father." (c. xiv. 9.) Thus also, when His discourse was concerning power, He said, "I and the Father are One"; and when His discourse was concerning authority, He said again, "For as the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom He wilt" (c. v. 21); which it would be impossible that He should do were He of a different substance; or even allowing that it were possible, yet it would not have behooved to say this, lest they should suspect that the substance was one and the same. Since if in order that they may not suppose Him to be an enemy of God, He often even uttereth words unsuited to Him, much more should He then have done so; but now, His saying, "That they should honor the Son even as they honor the Father" (c. v. 23); His saying, "The works which He doeth, I do also" (c. v. 19); His saying that He is "the Resurrection, and the Life, and the Light of the world" (c. xi. 25; c. viii. 12), are the expressions of One making Himself equal to Him who begat Him, and confirming the suspicion which they entertained. Seest thou(2) how He maketh this speech and defense, to show that He broke not the Law, and that He not only doth not remove, but even confirmeth the opinion of His equality with the Father? So also when they said, "Thou blasphemest, because thou makest thyself God" (c. x. 33), from equality of works He established this thing. 

[2.] And why say I that the Son did this, when the Father also who took not the flesh doeth the same thing? For He also endured that many lowly things should be said concerning Him for the salvation of the hearers. For the, "Adam, where art thou?" (Gen. iii. 9), and, "That I may know whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it" (Gen. xviii. 21); and, "Now I know that thou fearest God" (Gen. xxii. 12); and, "If they will hear" (Ezek. iii. 11); and, "If they will understand" (Deut. v. 29); and, "Who shall give the heart of this people to be so?" and the expression, "There is none like unto Thee among the gods, O Lord" (Ps. lxxx. 29); these and many other like sentences in the Old Testament, if a man should pick them out, he will find to be unworthy of the dignity of God. In the case of Ahab it is said, "Who shall entice Ahab for Me?" (2 Chron. xviii. 19.) And the continually preferring Himself to the gods of the I heathen in the way of comparison, all these things are unworthy of God. Yet in another way they are made worthy of Him, for He is so kind, that for our salvation He careth not for expressions which become His dignity. Indeed, the becoming man is unworthy of Him, and the taking the form of a servant, and the speaking humble words, and the being clothed in humble (garments), unworthy if one looks to His dignity, but worthy if one consider the unspeakable riches of His lovingkindness. And there is another cause of the humility of His words. What is that? It is that they knew and confessed the Father, but Him they knew not. Wherefore He continually betaketh Himself to the Father as being confessed by them, because He Himself was not as yet deemed worthy of credit; not on account of any inferiority of His own, but because of the folly and infirmity of the hearers. On this account He prayeth, and saith, "Father, I thank Thee that Thou hast heard Me." For if He quickeneth whom He will, and quickeneth in like manner as doth the Father, wherefore doth He call upon Him? 

But it is time now to go through the passage from the beginning? "Then they took up the stone where the dead man lay. And Jesus lifted up His eyes, and said, Father, I thank Thee that Thou hast heard Me. And I knew that Thou hearest Me always, but because of the people that stand by I said it, that they might believe that Thou hast sent Me." Let us then ask the heretic, Did He receive an impulse from the prayer, and so raise the dead man? How then did He work other miracles without prayer? saying, "Thou evil spirit, I charge thee, come out of him" (Mark ix. 25); and, "I will, be thou clean" (Mark i. 41); and, "Arise, take up thy bed" (c. v. 8); and, "Thy sins be forgiven thee" (Matt. ix. 2); and to the sea, "Peace, be still." (Mark iv. 39.) In short, what hath He more than the Apostles, if so be that He also worketh by prayer? Or rather I should say, that neither did they work all with prayer, but often they wrought without prayer, calling upon the Name of Jesus. Now, if His Name had such great power, how could He have needed prayer? Had He needed prayer, His Name would not have availed. When He wholly made man, what manner of prayer did He need? was there not then great equality of honor? "Let Us make," It saith, "man." (Gen. i. 26.) What could be greater sign of weakness, if He needed prayer? But let us see what the prayer was; "I thank Thee that Thou hast heard Me." Who now ever prayed in this manner? Before uttering any prayer, He saith, "I thank Thee," showing that He needed not prayer. "And I knew that Thou hearest Me always." This He said not as though He Himself were powerless, but to show that His will and the Father's is one. But why did He assume the form of prayer? Hear, not me, but Himself, saying, "For the sake of the people which stand by, that they may believe that Thou hast sent Me." He said not, "That they may believe that I am inferior, that I have need of an impulse from above, that without prayer I cannot do anything; but, "That Thou hast sent Me." For all these things the prayer declareth, if we take it simply. He said not, "Thou hast sent me weak, acknowledging servitude, and doing nothing of Myself"; but dismissing all these things, that thou mayest have no such suspicions, He putteth the real cause of the prayer, "That they may not deem Me an enemy of God; that they may not say, He is not of God, that I may show them that the work hath been done according to Thy will." All but saying, "Had I been an enemy of God, what is done would not have succeeded," but the, "Thou heardest Me," is said in the case of friends and equals. "And I knew that Thou hearest Me always," that is, "in order that My will be done I need no prayer, except to persuade men that to Thee and Me belongeth one will." "Why then prayest Thou?" For the sake of the weak and grosser sort. 

*Ver. 43. "And when He had thus spoken, He cried with a loud voice."* 

Why said He not, "In the name of My Father come forth"? Or why said He not, "Father, raise him up"? Why did he omit all these expressions, and after assuming the attitude of one praying, show by His actions His independent authority? Because this also was a part of His wisdom, to show condescension by words, but by His deeds, power. For since they had nothing else to charge Him with except that He was not of God, and since in this way they deceived many, He on this account most abundantly proveth this very point by what He saith, and in the way that their infirmity required. For it was in His power by other means to show at once His agreement with the Father and His own dignity, but the multitude could not ascend so far. And He saith, "Lazarus, come forth." 

[3.] This is that of which He spake, "The hour is coming, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live." (c. v. 28.) For, that thou mightest not think that He received the power of working from another, He taught thee this before, and gave proof by deeds, and said not, Arise, but, "Come forth," conversing with the dead man as though living. What can be equal to this authority? And if He doth it not by His own strength, what shall He have more than the Apostles, who say, "Why look ye so earnestly on us as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?" (Acts iii. 12.) For if, not working by His own power, He did not add what the Apostles said concerning themselves, they will in a manner be more truly wise than He, because they refused the glory. And in another place, "Why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions as you." (Acts xiv. 15.) The Apostles since they did nothing of themselves, spoke in this way to persuade men of this; but He when the like opinion was formed concerning Him, would He not have removed the suspicion, if at least He did not act by His own authority? Who would assert this? But in truth Christ doeth the contrary, when He saith, "Because of the people which stand by I said it, that they might believe"; so that had they believed, there would have been no need of prayer. Now if prayer were not beneath His dignity, why should He account them the cause of His praying? Why said He not, "I do it in order that they may believe that I am not equal to Thee"; for He ought on account of the suspicion to have come to this point. When He was suspected of breaking the Law, He used the very expression, even when they had not said anything, "'Think not that I am come to destroy the Law" (Matt. v. 17); but in this place He establisheth their suspicion. In fact, what need was there at all of going such a round, and of using such dark sayings? It had been enough to say, "I am not equal," and to be rid of the matter. "But what," saith some one, "did He not say that, I do not My own will?" Even this He did in a covert way, and one suited to their infirmity, and from the same cause through which the prayer was made. But what meaneth "That Thou hast heard Me"? It meaneth, "That there is nothing on My part opposed to Thee." As then the, "That Thou hast heard Me," is not the saying of one declaring, that of Himself He had not the power, (for were this the case, it would be not only impotence but ignorance, if before praying He did not know that God would grant the prayer; and if He knew not, how was it that He said, "I go that I may awake him," instead of, "I go to pray My Father to awake him?") As then this expression is a sign, not · of weakness, but of identity of will, so also is the, "Thou hearest Me always." We must then either say this, or else that it was addressed to their suspicions. If now He was neither ignorant nor weak, it is clear that He uttereth these lowly words, that thou mayest be persuaded by their very excess, and mayest be compelled to confess, that they suit not His dignity, but are from condescension. What then say the enemies of truth? "He spake not those words, Thou hast heard me," saith some one, "to the infirmity of the hearers, but in order to show a superiority." Yet this was not to show a superiority, but to humble Himself greatly, and to show Himself as having nothing more than man. For to pray is not proper to God, nor to the sharer of the Throne. Seest thou then that He came to this from no other cause than their unbelief? Observe at least that the action beareth witness to His authority. 

"He called, and the dead man came forth wrapped." Then that the matter might not seem to be an appearance, (for his coming forth bound did not seem to be less marvelous than his resurrection,) Jesus commanded to loose him, in order that having touched and having been near him, they might see that it was really he. And He saith, 

"Let him go." 

Seest thou His freedom from boastfulness? He doth not lead him on, nor bid him go about(4) with Him, lest He should seem to any to be showing him; so well knew He how to observe moderation. 

When the sign had been wrought, some wondered, others went and told it to the Pharisees.(5) What then did they? When they ought to have been astonished and to have admired Him, they took counsel to kill Him who had raised the dead. What folly! They thought to give up to death Him who had overcome death in the bodies of others. 

*Ver. 47. "And they said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles."* 

They still call Him "man," these who had received such proof of His divinity. "What do we?" They ought to have believed, and served, and bowed down to Him, and no longer to have deemed Him a man. 

*Ver. 58. "If we let him thus alone, the Romans will come, and will take away both our nation and city."* 

What is it which they counsel to do?  They wish to stir up the people, as though they themselves would be in danger on suspicion of establishing a kingdom. "For if," saith one of them, "the Romans learn that this Man is leading the multitudes, they will suspect us, and will come and destroy our city." Wherefore, tell me? Did He teach revolt? Did He not permit you to give tribute to Cæsar? Did not ye wish to make Him a king, and He fly from you? Did He not follow n a mean and unpretending life, having neither house nor anything else of the kind? They therefore said this, not from any such expectation, but from malice. Yet it so fell out contrary to their expectation, and the Romans took their nation and city when they had slain Christ. For the things done by Him were beyond all suspicion. For He who healed the sick, and taught the most excellent way of life, and commanded men to obey their rulers, was not establishing but undoing a tyranny. "But," saith some one, "we conjecture from former (impostors)." But they taught revolt, He the contrary. Seest thou that the words were but a pretense? For what action of the kind did He exhibit? Did He lead about with Him pompous guards? had He a train of chariots? Did He not seek the deserts? But they, that they may not seem to be speaking from their own ill feeling, say that all the city is in danger, that the common weal is being plotted against, and that they have to fear the worst. These were not the causes of your captivity, but things contrary to them; both of this last, and of the Babylonish, and of that under Antiochus which followed: it was not that there were worshipers among you, but that there were among you those who did unjustly, and excited God to wrath, this caused you to be given up into bondage. But such a thing is envy, allowing men to see nothing which they ought to see, when it has once for all blinded the soul. Did He not teach men to be meek? Did He not bid them when smitten on the right cheek to turn the other also? Did He not bid them when injured to bear it? to show greater readiness to endure evil, than others have to inflict it? Are these, tell me, the signs of one establishing a tyranny, and not rather of one pulling a tyranny down? 

[4.] But, as I said, a dreadful thing is malice, and full of hypocrisy; this hath filled the world with ten thousand evils; through this malady the law courts are filled, from this comes the desire of fame and wealth, from this the love of rule, and insolence, through this the roads have wicked robbers and the sea pirates, from this proceed the murders through the world, through this our race is rent asunder, and whatever evil thou mayest see, thou wilt perceive to arise from this. This hath even burst into the churches, this hath caused ten thousand dreadful things from the beginning, this is the mother of avarice, this malady hath turned all things upside down, and corrupted justice. For "gifts," It saith, "blind the eyes of the wise, and as a muzzle on the mouth turn away reproofs." (Ecclus. xx. 29, LXX. and marg. of E.V.) This makes slaves of freemen, concerning this we talk every day, and no good comes of it, we become worse than wild beasts; we plunder orphans, strip widows, do wrong to the poor, join woe to woe. "Alas! that the righteous hath perished from the earth!" (Mic. vii. 1, 2.) It is our part too henceforth to mourn, or rather we have need to say this every day. We profit nothing by our prayers, nothing by our advice and exhortation, it remaineth therefore that we weep. Thus did Christ; after having many times exhorted those in Jerusalem, when they profiled nothing, He wept at their hardness. This also do the Prophets, and this let us do now. Henceforth is the season for mourning and tears and wailing; it is seasonable for us also to say now, "Call for the mourning women, and send for the cunning women, that they may cry aloud" (Jer. ix. 17); perhaps thus we shall be able to east out the malady of those who build splendid houses, of those who surround themselves with lands gotten by rapine. It is seasonable to mourn; but do ye take part with me in the mourning, ye who have been stripped and injured, by your mournings bring down my tears. But while mourning we will mourn, not for ourselves but for them; they have not injured you, but they have destroyed themselves; for you have the Kingdom of heaven in return for the injustice done you, they hell in return for their gain. On this account it is better to be injured than to injure. Let us bewail them with a lamentation not of man's making, but that from the Holy Scriptures with which the Prophets also wailed. With Isaiah let us wail bitterly, and say, "Woe, they that add house to house, that lay field to field, that they may take somewhat from their neighbor; will ye dwell alone upon the earth? Great houses and fair, and there shall be no inhabitants in them." (Isa. v. 8, 9.) 

Let us mourn with Nahum, and say with him, "Woe to him that buildeth his house on high." (Perhaps Jer. xxii. 13.) Or rather let us mourn for them as Christ mourned for those of old. "Woe to you that are rich, for ye have received your consolation." (Luke vi. 24.) Let us, I beseech you, not cease thus lamenting, and if it be not unseemly, let us even beat our breasts for the carelessness of our brethren. Let us not weep for him who is already dead, but let us weep for the rapacious man, the grasping, the covetous, the insatiable. Why should we mourn for the dead, in whose case it is impossible henceforth to effect anything? Let us mourn for these who are capable even of change. But while we are lamenting, perhaps they will laugh. Even this is a worthy cause for lamentation, that they laugh when they ought to mourn. For had they been at all affected by our sorrows, it would have behooved us to cease from sorrowing on account of their promise of amendment; but since they are of an insensible disposition, let us continue to weep, not merely for the rich, but for the lovers of money, the greedy, the rapacious. Wealth is not an evil thing, (for we may use it rightly when we spend it upon those who have need,) but greediness is an evil, and it prepares deathless punishments. Let us then bewail them; perhaps there will be some amendment; or even if they who have fallen in do not escape, others at least will not fall into the danger, but will guard against it. May it come to pass that both they may be freed from their malady, and that none of us may ever fall into it, that we all may in common obtain the promised goods, through the grace and lovingkindness of our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

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## Terry1

> *HOMILY LXIV.* 
> 
> *John xi. 41, 42.* 
> 
> *"Jesus lifted up His eyes, and said, Father, I thank Thee that Thou hast heard Me; and I knew that Thou hearest Me always, but because of the people which stand by, I said it." And what follows.* 
> 
> [1.] WHAT I have often said, I will now say, that Christ looketh not so much to His own honor as to our salvation; not how He may utter some sublime saying, but how something able to draw us to Him. On which account His sublime and mighty sayings are few, and those also hidden, but the humble and lowly are many, and abound through His discourses. For since by these men were the rather brought over, in these He continueth; and He doth not on the one hand utter these universally, lest the men that should come after should receive damage, nor, on the other hand, doth He entirely withhold those, lest the men of that time should be offended. Since they who have passed from lowmindedness unto perfection, will be able from even a single sublime doctrine to discern the whole, but those who were ever lowminded, unless they had often heard these lowly sayings, would not have come to Him at all. In fact, even after so many such sayings they do not remain firm, but even stone and persecute Him, and try to kill Him, and call Him blasphemer. And when He maketh Himself equal with God, they say, "This man blasphemeth" (Matt. ix. 3); and when He saith, "Thy sins be forgiven thee" (c. x. 20), they moreover call Him a demoniac. So when He saith that the man who heareth His words is stronger than death, or, "I am in the Father and the Father in Me" (c. viii. 51), they leave Him; and again, they are offended when He saith that He came down from heaven. (c. vi. 33, 60.) If now they could not bear these sayings, though seldom uttered, scarcely, had His discourse been always sublime, had it been of this texture, would they have given heed to Him? When therefore He saith, "As the Father commanded Me, so I speak" (c. xiv. 31); and, "I am not come of Myself" (c. vii. 28), then they believe. That they did believe then is clear, from the Evangelist signifying this besides, and saying, "As He spake these words, many believed on Him." (c. v. 30.) If then lowly speaking drew men to faith, and high speaking scared them away, must it not be a mark of extreme folly not to see at a glance how to reckon the sole reason of those lowly sayings, namely, that they were uttered because of the hearers. Since in another place when He had desired to say some high thing, He withheld it, adding this reason, and saying, "Lest we should offend them, cast a hook into the sea." (Matt. xvii. 27.) Which also He doth here; for after saying, "I know that Thou hearest Me always," He addeth. "but because of the multitude which standeth around I said it, that they might believe." Are these words ours? Is this a human conjecture? When then a man will not endure to be persuaded by what is written, that they were offended at sublime things, how, when he heareth Christ saying that He spake in a lowly manner that they might not be offended, how, after that, shall he suspect that the mean sayings belonged to His nature, not to His condescension? So in another place, when a voice came down from heaven, He said, "This voice came not because of Me, but for your sakes." (c. xii. 30.) who is exalted may be allowed to speak lowly things of himself, but it is not lawful for the humble to utter concerning himself anything grand or sublime. For the former ariseth from condescension, and has for its cause the weakness of the hearers; or rather (it has for its cause) the leading them to humblemindedness, and His being clothed in flesh, and the teaching the hearers to say nothing great concerning themselves, and His being deemed an enemy of God, and not being believed to have come from God, His being suspected of breaking the Law, and the fact that the hearers looked on Him with an evil eye, and were ill disposed towards Him, because He said that He was equal to God. But that a lowly man should say any great thing of Himself, hath no cause either reasonable or unreasonable; it can only be folly, impudence, and unpardonable boldness. 
> 
> Wherefore then doth Christ speak humbly, being of that ineffable and great Substance? For the reasons mentioned, and that He might not be deemed unbegotten; for Paul seems to have feared some such thing as this; wherefore he saith, "Except Him who did put all things under Him." (1 Cor. xv. 27.) This it is impious even to think of. Since if being less than Him who begat Him, and of a different Substance, He had been deemed equal, would He not have used every means that this might not be thought? But now He doth the contrary, saying, "If I do not the works of Him that sent Me, believe Me not." (c. x. 37.) Indeed His saying, that "I am in the Father and the Father in Me" (c. xiv. 10), intimateth to us the equality. It would have behooved, if He had been inferior, to refute this opinion with much vehemence, and not at all to have said, "I am in the Father and the Father in me" (c. x. 30), or that, "We are One," or that, "He that hath seen Me, hath seen the Father." (c. xiv. 9.) Thus also, when His discourse was concerning power, He said, "I and the Father are One"; and when His discourse was concerning authority, He said again, "For as the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom He wilt" (c. v. 21); which it would be impossible that He should do were He of a different substance; or even allowing that it were possible, yet it would not have behooved to say this, lest they should suspect that the substance was one and the same. Since if in order that they may not suppose Him to be an enemy of God, He often even uttereth words unsuited to Him, much more should He then have done so; but now, His saying, "That they should honor the Son even as they honor the Father" (c. v. 23); His saying, "The works which He doeth, I do also" (c. v. 19); His saying that He is "the Resurrection, and the Life, and the Light of the world" (c. xi. 25; c. viii. 12), are the expressions of One making Himself equal to Him who begat Him, and confirming the suspicion which they entertained. Seest thou(2) how He maketh this speech and defense, to show that He broke not the Law, and that He not only doth not remove, but even confirmeth the opinion of His equality with the Father? So also when they said, "Thou blasphemest, because thou makest thyself God" (c. x. 33), from equality of works He established this thing. 
> ...


Very powerful!  A wonderful read for this beautiful Saturday.  Thanks TER.

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## fr33

I just don't see why posting those homilies is so inspiring. He allegedly raised one person from the dead. We have no clue as to how Lazarus died. Maybe he was killed for child molestation (not likely considering where he came from).

But we're to think it's great that his father's will is that so many people should die from various causes. Many billions. Why is saving someone from death so praise-worthy when killing even more is equally praiseworthy? Christians seem to forget their goal when talking about Lazarus. Either we all wish to die, or live.

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## erowe1

> I'm rather fond of some of the books purged by Constantine and his gangs of bishops


That didn't happen.

Also, which books? And why are you fond of them?

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## erowe1

> Christians seem to forget their goal when talking about Lazarus. Either we all wish to die, or live.


It's the latter. And because of that, the Lazarus story actually helps us focus on that, rather than forget it.

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## erowe1

> Well that sure doesn't require much eveidence.


But, by your own admission, you don't have any.

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## Ronin Truth

> But, by your own admission, you don't have any.


Now there's another extraordinary claim.

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## Ronin Truth

> That didn't happen.
> 
> Also, which books? And why are you fond of them?


*"That didn't happen." ..... EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM AKA FALSE

*


> *Lost Books of the Bible, or Forbidden?
> *
> Taking out answers, raises more questions..
> 
> Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible.
> 
> What we now have in Bible-based religion, whether labeled as "Catholic", or Protesting Catholic, known as Protestant", is unrecognizable form either the Hebrew religion, now known as the Jewish religion, or the church established at Jerusalem by the Apostles and disciples of Jesus. The practices of this first church are not practiced by any major religion and they are almost unknown, despite being clearly outlined in the existing New Testament. In its place are doctrines and practices first established in the first "true" Reformation of Christianity begun by Constantine.
> 
> There is much controversy over how many books the Bible should actually contain but considering the depth and scope of those few works remaining in the "accepted" Bible, we see but a fragment of incredible wisdom and history. A study of the Lost Books of the Bible is incomplete without a clear understanding that this is not a matter of simple loss, but a campaign by the Roman Catholic Church to purge books variously classified as heretical, dangerous, and corruptive. To the public they are lost; to the Church they are forbidden. Although the exact number of books purged is known only to the Church, and not shared knowledge, some can be determined by the discovery of their presence in the church prior to the reformation resulting in what became known as the Roman "Universal" Church.
> ...


http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks.ht...

I like Enoch, Thomas, Mary Magdalene for starters, just because I do. And that's more than good enough reason for me.


Got any more extraordinary claims for the day?

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## erowe1

> *"That didn't happen." ..... EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM AKA FALSE
> 
> *
> 
> http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks.ht...
> 
> I like Enoch, Thomas, Mary Magdalene for starters, just because I do. And that's more than good enough reason for me.
> 
> 
> Got any more extraordinary claims for the day?


I don't follow any of this. Is something here supposed to be evidence that supports your claim that Constantine and his gang of bishops purged books from the Bible? That whole quote is just some yahoo on the internet. You might as well quote yourself and call that your evidence. Notice how the author provides absolutely no evidence to support his claims. Evidence does not just mean finding someone else who says the same thing you do.

Which books of Enoch, Thomas, and Mary Magdalene do you mean? And what is it that you like about them?

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## erowe1

> Now there's another extraordinary claim.


So you do have evidence to support your extraordinary claim that my claim was an extraordinary one? Well then what is it?

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## Ronin Truth

> I don't follow any of this. Is something here supposed to be evidence that supports your claim that Constantine and his gang of bishops purged books from the Bible? That whole quote is just some yahoo on the internet. You might as well quote yourself and call that your evidence. Notice how the author provides absolutely no evidence to support his claims. Evidence does not just mean finding someone else who says the same thing you do.
> 
> Which books of Enoch, Thomas, and Mary Magdalene do you mean? And what is it that you like about them?


Of course you don't follow any of that.  You haven't and apparently won't do any of your own research.  If you don't care enough then why the hell should I?

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## robert68

> I just don't see why posting those homilies is so inspiring. He allegedly raised one person from the dead. We have no clue as to how Lazarus died. Maybe he was killed for child molestation (not likely considering where he came from).
> 
> But we're to think it's great that his father's will is that so many people should die from various causes. Many billions. Why is saving someone from death so praise-worthy when killing even more is equally praiseworthy? Christians seem to forget their goal when talking about Lazarus. Either we all wish to die, or live.


But, they say, it wasnt the will of the creator of all things for death to exist. Those who accept that contradiction can believe all kinds of things.

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## moostraks

> But, they say, it wasn’t the “will” of the “creator of all things” for death to exist. Those who accept that contradiction can believe all kinds of things.


Well if you think of evil and death as a created thing then that might seem like a conundrum because a created thing then comes from a creator. If you think of evil as absence of good and death as the absence of life, then when you grasp the difference of the two belief structures, you can see why the story of Lazurus is so inspiring for believers. There are two paths, one filled with light and one absent of light. Light is greater than darkness and can overcome the effects of death.

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## Sola_Fide

> But, they say, it wasn’t the “will” of the “creator of all things” for death to exist. Those who accept that contradiction can believe all kinds of things.


Then your argument is against all these sub-biblical, free-will conceptions of Christianity (which I agree are contradictory and ridiculous).  You don't have any argument against true Biblical Christianity.

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## erowe1

> Of course you don't follow any of that.  You haven't and apparently won't do any of your own research.  If you don't care enough then why the hell should I?


The person who wrote the article you copied and pasted is the one who hasn't done any of his own research, as evidenced by the article itself.

This shouldn't be about who can claim to have done the most research. It should be about actually supporting your claims with evidence. But since you made your baseless accusation concerning my research, check your private messages.

That silly conspiracy theory from the Dan Brown books that Constantine purged books from the Bible, which you repeated as fact, after, as you admit, never having researched the topic, is something no scholar believes. And it is clearly and provably false.

By the way, in the quote you pretend to be replying to, I asked if there was anything in what you copied and pasted that was meant as support for the claim that Constantine and his gang of bushops purged books from the Bible. Conspicuously you did not answer that. Nor did you answer my question about which books of Enoch, Thomas, and Mary Magdalene you like and why.

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