# News & Current Events > Coronavirus SARS-CoV2 >  Where's the "Operation Warp Speed" for monoclonal antibodies?

## phill4paul

> "We want people out there, including physicians as well as potential patients, to realize the advantage of this very effective way of treating early infection," Dr. Fauci said. *"Clinical trials have demonstrated that early treatment with anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibodies can reduce the risk of COVID-19 hospitalization or death by 70 [percent] to 85 percent."*


https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...reatments.html

  If you reduce the Covid-19 hospitalizations and death by 70-85% it makes it LESS deadly and a strain on the healthcare system than the common flu!

  But, of course there is just not enough monoclonal antibodies in the chain and The Fed. Gov. Biden Admin. needs to RESTRICT it's use.

  The states that have been using the monoclonal and keeping their numbers down are red states. The ones with no mask mandates, no business shut downs.




> The US government is buying more doses of monoclonal antibody treatments for Covid-19, and the Biden administration is taking over distribution in order to avoid shortages of the key therapeutics.
> 
> The moves come as demand for monoclonal antibodies has increased as cases surged due to spread of the Delta variant and low vaccination rates in some areas of the country.
> 
> Monoclonal antibodies are lab-engineered immune system proteins that kickstart an immune response against an infection. The US Department of 
> 
> Health and Human Services says that as of September 10, 2.17 million doses of monoclonal antibodies have been shipped to all sites, and 938,000 doses have been used since December. About 43% of the distributed doses have been used as of September 3.
> 
> An HHS spokesperson said seven states have accounted for 70% of orders for the therapy. *Those seven states are Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia and Louisiana.
> ...


https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/healt...cts/index.html

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## PAF

*Government has NO business in healthcare.*


- Top Donor Of Gov. Ron DeSantis Is Regeneron Investor. Citadel CEO Ken Griffin has donated $10.75 million to a political committee that supports DeSantis. He also donated $5.75 million in 2018 and $5 million last April.

Citadels investment in Regeneron is a tiny fraction of its overall $39 billion in investments, but if the stock price were to go up, Citadel would benefit. DeSantis spokeswoman Christina Pushaw points out that Citadel has far greater investments in Moderna and Pfizer, which manufacture COVID-19 vaccines.

DeSantis announced on Wednesday the opening of another monoclonal antibody treatment center at C.B. Smith Park in Pembroke Pines. Another site is opening on August 21 at Tropical Park in Southwest Miami-Dade. The state plans to have 21 open by next week. The federal government is paying for the monoclonal antibody treatments and patients arent being charged for the antibody cocktail. 

The Citadel CEO, a billionaire, has donated tens of millions of dollars to other conservative candidates and political committees across the country. He was raised in Florida and is building an oceanfront mansion near Trumps Palm Beach Mar-a-Lago resort.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-On-The-Record

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## phill4paul

> *Government has NO business in healthcare.*
> 
> 
> - Top Donor Of Gov. Ron DeSantis Is Regeneron Investor. Citadel CEO Ken Griffin has donated $10.75 million to a political committee that supports DeSantis. He also donated $5.75 million in 2018 and $5 million last April.
> 
> Citadel’s investment in Regeneron is a tiny fraction of its overall $39 billion in investments, but if the stock price were to go up, Citadel would benefit. DeSantis spokeswoman Christina Pushaw points out that Citadel has far greater investments in Moderna and Pfizer, which manufacture COVID-19 vaccines.
> 
> DeSantis announced on Wednesday the opening of another monoclonal antibody treatment center at C.B. Smith Park in Pembroke Pines. Another site is opening on August 21 at Tropical Park in Southwest Miami-Dade. The state plans to have 21 open by next week. The federal government is paying for the monoclonal antibody treatments and patients aren’t being charged for the antibody cocktail. 
> 
> ...


  So monoclonals suck?

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## PAF

> So monoclonals suck?



So you believe the End the FED should be involved in healthcare?

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## PAF

My personal-private physician and I will determine what is best for me. I don’t want or need Lobbyists or the Fed to feed me crap on the nationalistic healthcare  tax payer dime what it thinks is best for me.

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## phill4paul

> So you believe the End the FED should be involved in healthcare?


  Oh, that's right, you're the agorist. The one that believes you should shun politics and if everyone did as well government would go away and you would be free to grow sunflowers in your back yard.

  Step the $#@! aside. If you believe that $#@! then get off this site. Go live your life and quit wasting your time here.

  Globalists love you. Because even though you believe yourself to be "pure." Every day and everyway you empower them. Your very interaction on this site does.

  So schtap with your bull$#@! already.

  Next thing you'll be telling us to drive around without an license plate, and expecting it to end in your favor.

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## Brian4Liberty

Instead of “warp speed”, the Biden Admin will call it “slow boat”...

Biden Admin Limiting Supply Of Monoclonal Antibodies In 7 Southern States

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## phill4paul

> So you believe the End the FED should be involved in healthcare?


 Oh, look at me I'm an agorist. I didn't buy one thing today I wasn't taxed on. I live my life through the black market. Blargh, blargh, blargh.

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## PAF

> Oh, that's right, you're the agorist. The one that believes you should shun politics and if everyone did as well government would go away and you would be free to grow sunflowers in your back yard.
> 
>   Step the $#@! aside. If you believe that $#@! then get off this site. Go live your life and quit wasting your time here.
> 
>   Globalists love you. Because even though you believe yourself to be "pure." Every day and everyway you empower them. Your very interaction on this site does.
> 
>   So schtap with your bull$#@! already.
> 
>   Next thing you'll be telling us to drive around without an license plate, and expecting it to end in your favor.



Motorcycle Registration:
$21/year x 9 years = $189

Inspection:
$20/year x 9 years = $180

Total = $369

If $369 is no biggie, I have a Venmo account you can shoot it right over.

I pick up pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters off the ground when I see them. Goes right in the jar until I have enough to roll and trade. Once I found a wrinkled 5 buck bill in the parking lot over at the wing bar, if you would come, the tab was on me ;-)


‘Merika… they loves them their Fed, even repubs now cause DJT gave his seal of approval.

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## PAF

> Oh, look at me I'm an agorist. I didn't buy one thing today I wasn't taxed on. I live my life through the black market. Blargh, blargh, blargh.


12 bucks a carton for smokes over at the Injun reservation, I figure that’s a few grand saved a year just in taxes. I’m not Indian, but I dig their bikes, it’s my ride of choice. Blows the mirrors off any Hog next to me ;-)

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## PAF

@phill4paul says: I don’t mind paying my taxes

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## phill4paul

> Motorcycle Registration:
> $21/year x 9 years = $189
> 
> Inspection:
> $20/year x 9 years = $180
> 
> Total = $369
> 
> If $369 is no biggie, I have a Venmo account you can shoot it right over.
> ...


  So you...pay $#@! to the gov. Are you arguing you just don't pay as much as others? Not that you DON'T, but your life style choice of riding a mini-bike is somehow revolutionary?

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## PAF

> So you...pay $#@! to the gov. Are you arguing you just don't pay as much as others? Not that you DON'T, but your life style choice of riding a mini-bike is somehow revolutionary?


I pay involuntarily. The Agorist weighs risk versus reward. I’m not poor, I’m not rich, but I do lead a decently happy life.

Had the Injun 130mph up on the NY turnpike near Buffalo… I was out of smokes and wanted to get there fast. My woman took a pic of the speedo just for fun.

Who said anything about mini bikes?

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## phill4paul

> @phill4paul says: I don’t mind paying my taxes


  @PAF says: I'm all cool and am an agorist and everyone else should be too. That's how you end government.

  Like a Marxist government is gonna let your agorist ass let your balls fly free in the public square. 

 Dood, go live among the peoples of the forest. Have fun.

  But, stop injecting your bull$#@! among adults.

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## phill4paul

> I pay involuntarily. The Agorist weighs risk versus reward. I’m not poor, I’m not rich, but I do lead a decently happy life.
> 
> Had the Injun 130mph up on the NY turnpike near Buffalo… I was out of smokes and wanted to get there fast. My woman took a pic of the speedo just for fun.
> 
> Who said anything about mini bikes?


  What property do you own? Acreage? House?

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## PAF

> @PAF says: I'm all cool and am an agorist and everyone else should be too. That's how you end government.
> 
>   Like a Marxist government is gonna let your agorist ass let your balls fly free in the public square. 
> 
>  Dood, go live among the peoples of the forest. Have fun.
> 
>   But, stop injecting your bull$#@! among adults.


I always tell folks… never be jealous, you can do the same ;-)

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## PAF

> What property do you own? Acreage? House?


lol you got my number, yank a brew out of the fridge and kick back a few

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## phill4paul

> lol you got my number, yank a brew out of the fridge and kick back a few


  So you are a traveller? Nothing wrong with that. Easy to live under the radar. 

  But, it seems you want to tell members of this site, with fam, and responsibilities, to live free and easy. 

  How $#@!ing old are you, do you have fam, are you responsible?

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## PAF

@phill4paul great talking with you, stay cool keep in touch! Reach out to the others it will be fun and worth it

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## phill4paul

> @phill4paul great talking with you, stay cool keep in touch! Reach out to the others it will be fun and worth it


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PAF again

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## TheTexan

> @PAF says: I'm all cool and am an agorist and everyone else should be too. That's how you end government.
> 
>   Like a Marxist government is gonna let your agorist ass let your balls fly free in the public square. 
> 
>  Dood, go live among the peoples of the forest. Have fun.
> 
>   But, stop injecting your bull$#@! among adults.


Isn't agorist just a fancy word for doormat?

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## Invisible Man

> Oh, that's right, you're the agorist.


Agorists aren't the only people who believe that providing medical care to the public is outside the purview of the federal government. Anybody who supports this website's mission, or who is anywhere close to aligned with Ron Paul, or for that matter anyone who would have been just a run-of-the-mill conservative up until a couple decades ago, also believes that providing medical care to the public is outside the purview of the federal government.

You telling someone to step aside for supporting the mission of this website so that you can come here and support the very antithesis of everything we stand for is the height of trolling.

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## phill4paul

> Agorists aren't the only people who believe that providing medical care to the public is outside the purview of the federal government. Anybody who supports this website's mission, or who is anywhere close to aligned with Ron Paul, or for that matter anyone who would have been just a run-of-the-mill conservative up until a couple decades ago, also believes that providing medical care to the public is outside the purview of the federal government.
> 
> You telling someone to step aside for supporting the mission of this website so that you can come here and support the very antithesis of everything we stand for is the height of trolling.


  If you got the impression that I support government in healthcare from the original post then you are a special kinda stupid.

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## acptulsa

> If you got the impression that I support government in healthcare from the original post then you are a special kinda stupid.


You must admit that the headline does faintly resemble a call for a few trillion dollars to be thrown at a major multinational pharmaceutical...

And you can't have it because Trump's gone and warp engines are suspected of emitting carbon dioxide.

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## Invisible Man

> If you got the impression that I support government in healthcare from the original post then you are a special kinda stupid.


Not just the OP, but your responses to PAF, especially post #6.

Yes, that's what you were saying. It's not just an impression made by a stupid reader. If you meant something else, then the fault is yours both for posting the OP and for responding that way to PAF for saying what you actually agreed with. Feel free to take it back.

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## Brian4Liberty

> If you got the impression that I support government in healthcare from the original post then you are a special kinda stupid.


Seems to me that the contents of the original post talk about government restricting and controlling a product instead of letting the free market function. 

The title refers to “warp speed”, which could have varying meanings. 

It could mean removing government restrictions so the product can flow faster (as opposed to restricting it). 

Or one could assume the title means government should pay for it all as what happened with the vaccines, although advocating government involvement is not in the actual post anywhere.




> But, of course there is just not enough monoclonal antibodies in the chain and The Fed. Gov. Biden Admin. needs to RESTRICT it's use.


I found the post to be about the outrage of government hindering the free market and restricting the flow of a treatment to red states as political punishment. (All caps on RESTRICT was a hint.)

Apparently some see it as a call for more government and an opportunity to criticize DeSantis. And they didn’t seem to notice that Biden is restricting a market.

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## PAF

> Apparently some see it as a call for more government and an opportunity to criticize DeSantis.


The opportunity to criticize *DeSantis* is legitimate;

1. Pharm complex donates to his campaign. The _same_ investors (Regeneron) who invest in Moderna and Pfizer, and monoclonal.
2. DeSantis is installing and/or funding government medical facilities, up to 21 so far.
3. DeSantis is taking Federal Money to purchase monoclonal. 




> And they didn’t seem to notice that *Biden* is restricting a market.


He is "threatening" to restrict monoclonal, so that other states, BLUE and Red, will cry, moan and HOP on the Federally Funded bandwagon. The two-headed single snake.


Edit to say, there is _nothing_ Free Market about _any_ of this, no matter how it is taken, or how you look at it.

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## Brian4Liberty

> The opportunity to criticize *DeSantis* is legitimate;
> 
> 1. Pharm complex donates to his campaign. The _same_ investors (Regeneron) who invest in Moderna and Pfizer, and monoclonal.
> 2. DeSantis is installing and/or funding government medical facilities, up to 21 so far.
> 3. DeSantis is taking Federal Money to purchase monoclonal. 
> 
> 
> 
> He is "threatening" to restrict monoclonal, so that other states, BLUE and Red, will cry, moan and HOP on the Federally Funded bandwagon. The two-headed single snake.
> ...


Yeah, we get it. Biden good (only a threat), DeSantis bad.

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## acptulsa

> Yeah, we get it. Biden good (only a threat), DeSantis bad.


Why do you keep reverting to, doesn't like Team Red, must like Team Blue?

Is that your default position?  Do you just snap back to that every time you reboot?

How do we give you an infraction for popping off with these insults?

There's only two things required to dislike both DeSantis _and_ Chester the Molester: Eyes and brains.

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## CCTelander

> Yeah, we get it. Biden good (only a threat), DeSantis bad.



I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble finding anything that even resembles "Biden good" in anything @PAF has posted. Could you please be so kind as to point it out for me? Thanks.

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## acptulsa

> I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble finding anything that even resembles "Biden good" in anything @PAF has posted. Could you please be so kind as to point it out for me? Thanks.


He seems to be seeing things that aren't there.  Meanwhile, he's not seeing things...




> sell  my house fast indianapolis in


...that _are_ there.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Why do you keep reverting to, doesn't like Team Red, must like Team Blue?
> 
> Is that your default position?  Do you just snap back to that every time you reboot?
> 
> How do we give you an infraction for popping off with these insults?
> 
> There's only two things required to dislike both DeSantis _and_ Chester the Molester: Eyes and brains.


Why change the subject to "team red" when the thread subject is "team blue" (aka Biden)? Didn't PAF already create a thread dedicated to criticizing DeSantis?

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## acptulsa

> Why change the subject to "team red"...


The phrase "warp speed" isn't in the thread title?

Did we think Phil's a Trekkie?

Maybe the man can't tell 'em apart without a program, or separate 'em without a crowbar.  I know _I_ can't.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble finding anything that even resembles "Biden good" in anything @PAF has posted. Could you please be so kind as to point it out for me? Thanks.


That was hyperbole, to emphasize the fact that changing the subject to "team red" when the issue is Biden starts to smell a bit like distracting from what Biden is doing. And called it a simply a "threat" is de-emphasizing. 

So back on the thread subject, do you agree with government rationing a drug that seems to be effective savings lives, for what appears to be punish "team red" reasons?

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## acptulsa

> So back on the thread subject, do you agree with government rationing a drug that seems to be effective savings lives, for what appears to be punish "team red" reasons?


Please, please, _please_ tell me that's a rhetorical question.  The man can't go along with whatever New York liberal/Big Pharma tool the MSM is pretending to hate most just because he has the right capital letter next to his name, but you expect him to slobber on massive interventions in the free market for the same lame reason?

  @Bryan, judging by how many members vanished in 2016, and the fact nobody learned a damned thing from that, don't expect there to be anything left of this place by 2025.

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## TheTexan

> @Bryan, judging by how many members vanished in 2016, and the fact nobody learned a damned thing from that, don't expect there to be anything left of this place by 2025.


A lot of good posters "vanished" because they were banned.

This forum has gone through several such dark ages.

I've survived just barely, and I'm probably the highest-quality poster on this board.

----------


## acptulsa

Meanwhile the inmates get to break up the fights.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...26#post7059626

Gotta do something while I'm not fapping to the pic of the GOP Presumptive Nominee.

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## PAF

> Yeah, we get it. Biden good (only a threat), DeSantis bad.


 @Brian4Liberty , you _don't_ get it. Allow me to explain:




> He is "threatening" to restrict monoclonal, so that other states, BLUE and Red, will cry, moan and HOP on the Federally Funded bandwagon. The two-headed single snake.


Biden's "threat" is so that the republicans will shout: "Bastard evil Biden, we _must_ have [federally paid] monoclonal!". And most republicans will be _urging_ their state to want it using federal coffers.

It was bad enough that Trump swindled republicans into thinking OWS was a good thing, creating a new federal agency and nationalizing what _should_ have been privatized - _not_ on the tax-payer dime. Biden follows up, makes an idle "threat", so that "states rights" kick in for those red states, taking *federal dollars* to get the monoclonal like DeSantis did with Florida.

Get it straight - I have *NO* love for the likes of Biden or any democrat. But when "republicans" do the same, it is our job to point out the hypocrisy - _not_ make excuses, let it slide and embrace it.

I don't know how to make it clearer than when I said "2-headed single snake": republicans (one head), democrats (other head) =  one single corporate government.

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## PAF

> That was hyperbole, to emphasize the fact that changing the subject to "team red" when the issue is Biden starts to smell a bit like distracting from what Biden is doing. And called it a simply a "threat" is de-emphasizing. 
> 
> So back on the thread subject, do you agree with government rationing a drug that seems to be effective savings lives, for what appears to be punish "team red" reasons?


Nothing was changed.

DeSantis On The Record is one thread. 

Where's the "Operation Warp Speed" for monoclonal antibodies? is another thread.

I simply pointed out that taking federal dollars for what _should_ be between patient/doctor/private practice is wrong and cited an example of who did it and how.

*Government has NO business in 1. healthcare, 2. providing or 3. rationing.* It is up to the Free Market to determine that - NOT using state or *federal* dollars.

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## acptulsa

> Nothing was changed.
> 
> DeSantis On The Record is one thread. 
> 
> Where's the "Operation Warp Speed" for monoclonal antibodies? is another thread.
> 
> I simply pointed out that taking federal dollars for what _should_ be between patient/doctor/private practice is wrong and cited an example of who did it and how.
> 
> *Government has NO business in 1. healthcare, 2. providing or 3. rationing.* It is up to the Free Market to determine that - NOT using state or *federal* dollars.


Ever read _Go Set a Watchman_ by Harper Lee?  Know why that book was officially despised?

It's about a young woman throwing a hissy because she catches her father being practical.  And the reason Theye don't want you to read it is because the young liberal airhead is considerably more conservative than any Team Red Guy on this forum.  That's how far wrong we've gone.  We don't know how well things work when government doesn't do them.  The idea doesn't even occur to people.

GOP primary voters keep obediently falling in love with whoever gets whined about most on CNN, been doing it since CNN was founded nearly forty years ago, and they're threatening to lock us up and inject us with unidentified stuff that causes inflammation, suppresses the immune system, and is delivered by graphene nanotubes.

What was that famous definition of insanity, again?

I don't care who CNN talks smack about the most, _particularly_ if he's cashing paychecks from Big Pharma.  If I can't find a good He Who Must Not Be Named, the GOP can take a flying leap.

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## jmdrake

> My personal-private physician and I will determine what is best for me. I don’t want or need Lobbyists or the Fed to feed me crap on the nationalistic healthcare  tax payer dime what it thinks is best for me.





> *Government has NO business in healthcare.*
> 
> 
> - Top Donor Of Gov. Ron DeSantis Is Regeneron Investor. Citadel CEO Ken Griffin has donated $10.75 million to a political committee that supports DeSantis. He also donated $5.75 million in 2018 and $5 million last April.
> 
> Citadel’s investment in Regeneron is a tiny fraction of its overall $39 billion in investments, but if the stock price were to go up, Citadel would benefit. DeSantis spokeswoman Christina Pushaw points out that Citadel has far greater investments in Moderna and Pfizer, which manufacture COVID-19 vaccines.
> 
> DeSantis announced on Wednesday the opening of another monoclonal antibody treatment center at C.B. Smith Park in Pembroke Pines. Another site is opening on August 21 at Tropical Park in Southwest Miami-Dade. The state plans to have 21 open by next week. The federal government is paying for the monoclonal antibody treatments and patients aren’t being charged for the antibody cocktail. 
> 
> ...





> Oh, that's right, you're the agorist. The one that believes you should shun politics and if everyone did as well government would go away and you would be free to grow sunflowers in your back yard.
> 
>   Step the $#@! aside. If you believe that $#@! then get off this site. Go live your life and quit wasting your time here.
> 
>   Globalists love you. Because even though you believe yourself to be "pure." Every day and everyway you empower them. Your very interaction on this site does.
> 
>   So schtap with your bull$#@! already.
> 
>   Next thing you'll be telling us to drive around without an license plate, and expecting it to end in your favor.





> Instead of “warp speed”, the Biden Admin will call it “slow boat”...
> 
> Biden Admin Limiting Supply Of Monoclonal Antibodies In 7 Southern States


In a perfect world the free market would solve everything.  But the world ain't perfect.  It doesn't matter how much you and your doctor might want to choose monoclonal antibodies or ivermectin or fill-in-the-blank.  If it's unavailable it's unavailable.  And regardless of what role someone thinks the government should play in medicine, it is quite telling that they are only pushing "solutions" that lead to greater tyranny.  So I support governors making more options available.  And I also support free-marketters putting their heads together to come up with ways to make more options available.

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## Brian4Liberty

> ...
> Biden's "threat" is so that the republicans will shout: "Bastard evil Biden, we _must_ have [federally paid] monoclonal!". And most republicans will be _urging_ their state to want it using federal coffers.


So Biden is playing 3d chess? It’s a possibility. 

I tend to believe that Biden and friends want to wring every penny out of vaccines, and ensure that there is no one left who didn't get a vaccine (as a control group), before they will encourage COVID treatments. Thus they attack hydroxychoriquin, ivermectin, and even discourage use of big pharma’s monoclonal antibodies (at least for now).

Is anyone on this forum advocating for government to pay for monoclonal antibodies? I oppose government paying for any of it. I also oppose government rationing, controlling or blocking a market, which is why I oppose Biden doing that.




> It was bad enough that Trump swindled republicans into thinking OWS was a good thing, creating a new federal agency and nationalizing what _should_ have been privatized - _not_ on the tax-payer dime.


One of Trump’s many sins, which I opposed.




> Get it straight - I have *NO* love for the likes of Biden or any democrat. But when "republicans" do the same, it is our job to point out the hypocrisy - _not_ make excuses, let it slide and embrace it.


Which Republicans were mentioned in the OP that want government to pay for it?




> I don't know how to make it clearer than when I said "2-headed single snake": republicans (one head), democrats (other head) =  one single corporate government.


I don't disagree. There is a crony kleptocracy that envelopes most of the elected politicians and the bureaucracy. It’s in my sig line on every post.  But I also must point out that there are a handful of good GOP members of Congress (and Ron Paul was one of them). There have also been a few Democrats that are not corporate crony whores, but I tend to disagree with them on socialism and fiscal policy.

"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex."

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## jmdrake

> A lot of good posters "vanished" because they were banned.
> 
> This forum has gone through several such dark ages.
> 
> I've survived just barely, and I'm probably the highest-quality poster on this board.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheTexan again.

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## oyarde

> Isn't agorist just a fancy word for doormat?


I thought those were the homeless guys that wash windshields .

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## Anti Federalist

> In a perfect world the free market would solve everything.  But the world ain't perfect.  It doesn't matter how much you and your doctor might want to choose monoclonal antibodies or ivermectin or fill-in-the-blank.  If it's unavailable it's unavailable.  *And regardless of what role someone thinks the government should play in medicine, it is quite telling that they are only pushing "solutions" that lead to greater tyranny.*  So I support governors making more options available.  And I also support free-marketters putting their heads together to come up with ways to make more options available.


Thank Christ a voice of reason.

+rep

All I see happening here is the fedgoov exercising illegitimate authority to ration and ban lifesaving treatments that will end up killing people, based on politics.

There is another word for that: *genocide*.

Thank Christ those treatments were not withheld from me over the last week or I would probably be dead now.

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## PAF

> Thank Christ a voice of reason.
> 
> +rep
> 
> All I see happening here is the fedgoov exercising illegitimate authority to ration and ban lifesaving treatments that will end up killing people, based on politics.
> 
> There is another word for that: *genocide*.
> 
> Thank Christ those treatments were not withheld from me over the last week or I would probably be dead now.


Say good riddens to "End the Fed".

I could be wrong, but I think you are missing the point that Florida and other states are receiving monoclonal using federal dollars, while the state is propping up more government medical facilities. And the fact that Moderna, Pfizer AND Monoclonal investors are lining the pockets of politicians.

*Government has NO business in 1. Healthcare, 2. Supplying or 3. Rationing*

Until people get that, round and round we go, and more powerful the government and crony corporatism becomes.

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## fisharmor

Nobody said anything about teams before B4L brought it up.
DeSantis is on the same team as Biden.  The team that is looking for political expediency.
He did all the restrictions in the beginning.  He pivoted when he saw there was political gain from doing so.
Joke's on him, though, since the infrastructure to prevent Republicans from ever gaining the white house ever again is all in place.

I don't know about bans in 2016.  It seems to me a lot of this forum lost its appetite when a similar thing happened years earlier, when Rand was supposed to be our savior, then adopted some terrible positions, and we weren't allowed to talk about it.

The template political position that brought us all together was End the Fed, bring all troops home now (we still understand that to mean ALL of them, not just the ones that managed to catch a ride), destroy the CIA and other unconstitutional law enforcement agencies, end the drug war immediately, eliminate federal income taxes, end gun control, et cetera.

DeSantis is on a completely different planet from that position.  Pointing that out is the only hope we have in finding someone else we can all rally behind.

The 9-year failure to do that is why people like PAF and I don't participate in politics.  There's no point.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Say good riddens to "End the Fed".
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think you are missing the point that Florida and other states are receiving monoclonal using federal dollars, while the state is propping up more government medical facilities. And the fact that Moderna, Pfizer AND Monoclonal investors are lining the pockets of politicians.
> 
> *Government has NO business in 1. Healthcare, 2. Supplying or 3. Rationing*
> 
> Until people get that, round and round we go, and more powerful the government and crony corporatism becomes.


I believe everyone gets that point, and does not want government involved in any way. 

But the other point, as AF points out, is that It's important that people not be denied, by government, life savings drugs, whether ivermectin or monoclonal antibodies or anything else. Anyone with Covid would probably be willing to pay a reasonable cash amount for a treatment. Get government and insurance out of the equation. Let the free market meet the demand.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Nobody said anything about teams before B4L brought it up.
> ...


And I mention that because in Biden's Vax mandate speech, he literally said be was going to go after red states that don't do his bidding. The next thing you know, he is talking about cutting the supply of life saving drugs to red states. It's a part of the OP story.

Is that all a big political game? Maybe, but that doesn't matter to someone who needs a life saving drug.

----------


## acptulsa

> I Get government and insurance out of the equation. Let the free market meet the demand.


Wake me up when DeSantis or anyone else CNN whines about daily (but never fails to mention by name) helps you out with that project.  I'll be over here not holding my breath.

----------


## PAF

> Is that all a big political game? Maybe, but that doesn't matter to someone who needs a life saving drug.


I support the Free Market: SMUGGLE.

Funny how anti-abortion laws, anti-drug laws, etc. etc., people are able to get what they want/need and circumvent the system, but when we Agorists suggest such things in the quest for Freedom, Liberty and Fiscal Responsibility, the STATISTS so-called liberty advocates are the first to shoot us down.

----------


## fisharmor

> Is that all a big political game? Maybe, but that doesn't matter to someone who needs a life saving drug.


I get that, which brings me to this point....




> I support the Free Market: SMUGGLE.


Yeah, does anyone else remember those couple times when state-level preemption laws were toyed with?
I  think it was Montana where they were trying to pass a bill that would  make any firearm produced in-state would be considered exempt from  federal gun laws.
If DeSantis was on our 'team', he'd do something  like ask the legislature to pass a bill exempting monoclonal antibodies  produced in Florida and used in Florida from federal oversight.  And  he'd ask the bill to have teeth.  

Threatening to fine everyone  who enforces vax mandates is a step in that direction.  Every step he  takes in that direction makes us warm up to the guy.

You know you're really on the side of liberty when you get Debra Medina'd and get a nice fat RINO shiv between your shoulder blades.  Until that happens, DeSantis is not to be trusted, and neither is Abbot.

----------


## phill4paul

DeSantis to purchase monoclonals directly from manufacturer. Will Biden move to stop it from happening?




> DeSantis called the change a raw deal and vowed to work directly with drug company GlaxoSmithKline to circumvent federal officials by purchasing its monoclonal treatment, Sotrovimab.
> 
> *"The federal government has bought all the Regeneron*," DeSantis said. "*We are not able to buy it directly from Regeneron given that. We do think we can order some Sotrovimab and we will do that if we can."*
> 
> The governor has opened 25 monoclonal sites in the Sunshine State. His office has said Florida needs about 72,000 doses weekly to meet demand. This week's allotment is less than half that -- about 31,000.


https://www.wptv.com/coronavirus/gov...from-drugmaker

----------


## PAF

> DeSantis to purchase monoclonals directly from manufacturer. Will Biden move to stop it from happening?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wptv.com/coronavirus/gov...from-drugmaker



Why is DeSantis purchasing medicine or _anything_ medical related and on the tax-payer dime?

That should be up to doctors, clinics and hospitals to buy what they need.

----------


## CCTelander

> Why is DeSantis purchasing medicine or _anything_ medical related and on the tax-payer dime?
> 
> That should be up to doctors, clinics and hospitals to buy what they need.



I don't get it.

Biden impliments Marxist health care policies - Marxism BAD!!!!!

DeSantis impliments Marxist health card policies - Marxism good?!?!?

SMGDH

----------


## acptulsa

> Why is DeSantis purchasing medicine or _anything_ medical related and on the tax-payer dime?
> 
> That should be up to doctors, clinics and hospitals to buy what they need.


Shhh.

Who cares about the people in the other states who can't get it, because DeSantis is overturning the free market to stockpile it for political purposes?  Who cares if doctors have autonomy to do what's best for their patients?

Who cares about the pawns?  We're all watching the chess game to see if DeSantis is more Alpha than Biden.

----------


## jmdrake

> Thank Christ a voice of reason.
> 
> +rep
> 
> All I see happening here is the fedgoov exercising illegitimate authority to ration and ban lifesaving treatments that will end up killing people, based on politics.
> 
> There is another word for that: *genocide*.
> 
> Thank Christ those treatments were not withheld from me over the last week or I would probably be dead now.


You're welcome and hope you make a full recovery!




> Say good riddens to "End the Fed".
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think you are missing the point that Florida and other states are receiving monoclonal using federal dollars, while the state is propping up more government medical facilities. And the fact that Moderna, Pfizer AND Monoclonal investors are lining the pockets of politicians.
> 
> *Government has NO business in 1. Healthcare, 2. Supplying or 3. Rationing*
> 
> Until people get that, round and round we go, and more powerful the government and crony corporatism becomes.


Ummm.......you're not making sense.  "End The Fed", a chant that first became known to me when I joined this movement in 2007, had/has a particular meaning.  It's always meant the Federal Reserve Bank.  End the Fed never was associated, by this movement, with ending *all* government.  It didn't even mean "end the federal government."  It meant "End The Federal Reserve Bank."  This country existed many years without a central bank.  I had to explain this to my mother in law (ex mother in law now?) when she gave me grief over my "end the fed" bumper sticker.  So no.  Accepting help from a non federal government official that is not connected to the central bank is not nullification of "End The Fed."  So...quit saying that.  Please.

Now to the practical side of this.  We are literally in the fight for our very lives.  What Biden is doing by limiting the supply of monoclonal antibodies to be compared to boycotts our country has done against "terrorist" nations.  Ron Paul has in the past justly called that an act of war.  I do not say this lightly.  @Anti Federalist knows I'm the last person to be talking like this.  As I type this I know this forum is being watch.  I am probably more identifiable than most because I don't use some pseudonym here.  But if we don't pull our heads out of our collective asses as see what's going on, well then whatever happens next is our own damn fault.  When liberals were pushing for more gun control and constitutional sheriffs were like "Nope.  We're not going to let you enforce those laws in our jurisdictions", and they were applauded, did you freak out then and say "Wait a minute.  That's the end of 'End The Fed'?"  Because....I missed that if you did.  If you didn't, what's the difference?  Yes, in a perfect government free world sheriffs wouldn't exist and the self organized militia would protect us from enemies foreign and domestic.  But *that perfect world does not exist*!  Yes, the Bundy's held of the feds for a bit on the grazing issue...then they fell of the front page, then the feds arrested them when they tried to help someone else.  If a governor or state legislature decides to act *to help you have more medical choices*, there is no downside to that action.  And if you've got a solution on how to get monoclonal antibodies or ivermectin or whatever else to the people that want it and can't get it, GREAT!  We're all ears.  And for the record I'm all for natural over the counter stuff like zinc and melatonin and other natural remedies like exercise and sunlight and hydrotherapy.  I'm putting together a pamphlet on just that to share in my community.  This is a full court press.  Let's start working on solutions.  We don't have the time or manpower to waste knocking down each others ideas on nothing principal grounds.

----------


## jmdrake

> Why is DeSantis purchasing medicine or _anything_ medical related and on the tax-payer dime?
> 
> That should be up to doctors, clinics and hospitals to buy what they need.


Are you even paying attention?  The doctors, clinics and hospitals do not have the power to compete with the Federal government.  Biden is targetting southern states for retribution.  This was like the situation with PPE early on.  I sold N95 masks to doctors and clinics that couldn't get them, but I could.  The normal supply chain was screwed up.  I bought off Craigslist and when that supply dried up I bought off Alibaba.  I had to be careful not to buy too many because there were stories about the Feds confiscating PPE supplies people were buying in bulk.  If you haven't tried to fulfil a hospital supply chain, even on a small scale like I did, you need to do that first before trying to comment on what doctors and hospitals should be doing for themselves.  




> I don't get it.
> 
> Biden impliments Marxist health care policies - Marxism BAD!!!!!
> 
> DeSantis impliments Marxist health card policies - Marxism good?!?!?
> 
> SMGDH


I haven't seen the article you are talking about regarding the health card policy.  I'll take your word for it that such a policy is bad.  But this ain't that.




> Shhh.
> 
> Who cares about the people in the other states who can't get it, because DeSantis is overturning the free market to stockpile it for political purposes?  Who cares if doctors have autonomy to do what's best for their patients?
> 
> Who cares about the pawns?  We're all watching the chess game to see if DeSantis is more Alpha than Biden.


FFS!  The free market has already been overturned by Biden!

----------


## PAF

> Ummm.......you're not making sense.  "End The Fed", a chant that first became known to me when I joined this movement in 2007, had/has a particular meaning.  It's always meant the Federal Reserve Bank.


Look, I know and understand exactly what the Fed [Federal Reserve] [central bankers] is.

This Federal Government has grown beyond recognition. Now, people are cheering and pleading for free money! free medicine! [on the tax payer dime]. It has NO business in healthcare period, whether ObamneyCare, TrumpCare or whatever care!

Private practices, local churches, communities, donations, should be handling local matters. I should not have to explain this to you @jmdrake, but it seems that you have lost your senses.

People cheering DeSantis on, because he takes/took federal dollars to buy medicine, building state government clinics around the state, and because "other party" rationed him and his state, he decides to buy directly from the manufacturer - using TAX DOLLARS. Unbelievable!

----------


## acptulsa

> FFS!  The free market has already been overturned by Biden!


And?

I'm not some sheep looking nervously to see if the New GOP Presumptive Nominee is Alpha enough to ensure the Red Flock gets their share.  I'm much more concerned with trying to find a way to get my free market back--and all our other God-given freedoms.

I guess it's just a matter of priorities.

All in the world we need to do to get our free market back is pull our head out of their crotches and grow a pair of our very own.

----------


## PAF

Here, I'll make CRYSTAL clear, @jmdrake , @Anti Federalist , etc. From an Agorist/FreeMarket/LibertyAdvocate point of view:

*End the Fed! [federal reserve]

End the Fed! [federal government]*

There. I hope I made myself CRYSTAL clear.

----------


## jmdrake

> Look, I know and understand exactly what the Fed [Federal Reserve] [central bankers] is.
> 
> This Federal Government has grown beyond recognition. Now, people are cheering and pleading for free money! free medicine! [on the tax payer dime]. It has NO business in healthcare period, whether ObamneyCare, TrumpCare or whatever care!
> 
> Private practices, local churches, communities, donations, should be handling local matters. I should not have to explain this to you @jmdrake, but it seems that you have lost your senses.
> 
> People cheering DeSantis on, because he takes/took federal dollars to buy medicine, building state government clinics around the state, and because "other party" rationed him and his state, he decides to buy directly from the manufacturer - using TAX DOLLARS. Unbelievable!


I have not at all "lost my senses."  So...when the real feds come to take your guns and the local sheriff opposes them using one of the MRAPS the feds gave him years ago, are you going to be all "muh principles?"  And again, this has *nothing* to do with "end the fed".  You're misusing the term.  Sorry, you just are.

----------


## jmdrake

> Here, I'll make CRYSTAL clear, @jmdrake , @Anti Federalist , etc. From an Agorist/FreeMarket/LibertyAdvocate point of view:
> 
> *End the Fed! [federal reserve]
> 
> End the Fed! [federal government]*
> 
> There. I hope I made myself CRYSTAL clear.


Yeah.  That's nice.  That's not what I mean by end the fed.  And even if it was, Desantis isn't a fed.  Somebody should be doing something to circumvent Biden's boycott.  You worried about federal money being used?  Then start a moneybomb.  I'll be happy to donate.

----------


## PAF

> I have not at all "lost my senses."  So...when the real feds come to take your guns and the local sheriff opposes them using one of the MRAPS the feds gave him years ago, are you going to be all "muh principles?"  And again, this has *nothing* to do with "end the fed".  You're misusing the term.  Sorry, you just are.


Whoa! You sound just like @Swordsmyth !!!

Accounts hi-jacked, re-used, etc., I can't prove any of that - other than what you say and try to push.

----------


## jmdrake

> And?
> 
> I'm not some sheep looking nervously to see if the New GOP Presumptive Nominee is Alpha enough to ensure the Red Flock gets their share.  I'm much more concerned with trying to find a way to get my free market back--and all our other God-given freedoms.
> 
> I guess it's just a matter of priorities.
> 
> All in the world we need to do to get our free market back is pull our head out of their crotches and grow a pair of our very own.


The priorities put in the declaration of independence are *LIFE*, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  They are put in that order for a reason.  Biden's actions are a direct assault on the *LIFE* priority.  I don't give a crap if Desantis becomes the GOP nominee or not.  In fact I would much rather that be Rand Paul.  If it is Desantis I may not even vote.  But I support moves made to give people more options to save their *LIFE*.

----------


## phill4paul

> And?
> 
> I'm not some sheep looking nervously to see if the New GOP Presumptive Nominee is Alpha enough to ensure the Red Flock gets their share.  I'm much more concerned with trying to find a way to get my free market back--and all our other God-given freedoms.
> 
> I guess it's just a matter of priorities.
> 
> All in the world we need to do to get our free market back is pull our head out of their crotches and grow a pair of our very own.


  When have you ever had a free-market?

----------


## jmdrake

> Whoa! You sound just like  @Swordsmyth !!!
> 
> Accounts hi-jacked, re-used, etc., I can't prove any of that - other than what you say and try to push.


Not at all.  @Swordsmyth supports Trump.  I don't support Desantis.  I simply support the power of the states to check the power of the feds.  It's called federalism.

----------


## PAF

> Not at all.  @Swordsmyth supports Trump.  I don't support Desantis.  I simply support the power of the states to check the power of the feds.  It's called federalism.


Best of luck there, JMDrake

----------


## acptulsa

> Not at all.  @Swordsmyth supports Trump.  I don't support Desantis.  I simply support the power of the states to check the power of the feds.  It's called federalism.


Actually, it's called states' rights.  It's anti-federalist.

And DeSantis is trying to give his tribe more options, at everyone else's expense.  If I was genetically disposed to approve of that sort of thing, I wouldn't be descended from abolitionists.




> When have you ever had a free-market?


I'm older than Medicare.  But even if I wasn't, I'd be more concerned with getting a free market than with hoarding for my tribe more supplies than my tribe even needs.

I guess that's the difference between conservatives and Team Red.

----------


## jmdrake

> Best of luck there, JMDrake


Still waiting for your solution.

----------


## jmdrake

> Actually, it's called states' rights.  It's anti-federalist.
> 
> And DeSantis is trying to give his tribe more options, at everyone else's expense.  If I was genetically disposed to approve of that sort of thing, I wouldn't be descended from abolitionists.


You're sounding a bit collectivist here.  Desantis can't help his own state because it *might* hurt other states?  Emphasis on *might*.  What's more likely is that other states will follow Desantis example and make the own direct deals circumventing the feds.

And as actual descendant of slaves I fail to see the equivalence between states having the right to let people own other people and states having the right to look after the interests of their own people.

----------


## acptulsa

> You're sounding a bit collectivist here.  Desantis can't help his own state because it *might* hurt other states.  Emphasis on *might*.  What's more likely is that other states will follow Desantis example and make the own direct deals circumventing the feds.
> 
> And as actual descendant of slaves I fail to see the equivalence between states having the right to let people own other people and states having the right to look after the interests of their own people.


Yes you do.  You're just smart enough to see the simile is imperfect.

Yes, it's a humanitarian thing to do to help those who are suffering treat the symptoms.  It's a more humanitarian thing to do to cut out the cancer.  One provides temporary comfort.  The other restores hope.

----------


## jmdrake

> Yes you do.  You're just smart enough to see the simile is imperfect.
> 
> Yes, it's a humanitarian thing to do to help those who are suffering treat the symptoms.  It's a more humanitarian thing to do to cut out the cancer.  One provides temporary comfort.  The other restores hope.


It's worse than just "imperfect."  It's absurd.  There was nothing at all humanitarian about maintaining slavery.  And I have yet to see you or anyone else in this thread say anything that moves us an closer to "cutting out the cancer."

----------


## acptulsa

> It's worse than just "imperfect."  It's absurd.  There was nothing at all humanitarian about maintaining slavery.  And I have yet to see you or anyone else in this thread say anything that moves us an closer to "cutting out the cancer."


Slavers defending slavery were trying to give their tribe more options.  And demanding that "the conservative party" offer up conservatives will at least help us find the cancer.  If the GOP cannot or will not do so, it _is_ the cancer.

----------


## jmdrake

> Slavers defending slavery were trying to give their tribe more options.  And demanding that "the conservative party" offer up conservatives will at least help us find the cancer.  If the GOP cannot or will not do so, it _is_ the cancer.


I'm having trouble following your logic.  What I *think* your concern is that not that what Desantis is doing is actually wrong, but that you're concerned he'll get too much credit for it?  This is about 2024 for you?  I do not care!  What is your proposal to getting monoclonal antibodies to the patients in states where Biden is throttling that?  If you don't have an answer for that, then you don't really have a valid argument.  Slavery itself is a crime against humanity.  Getting treatment for the people in your state is not a crime against humanity.  And you have not even given a rational explanation as to how Desantis move "hurts" other states.  Quite the contrary.  The "free market" of supply and demand dictates that manufacturing increases based on increased demand.  If Desantis gamble pays off, and early results shows that it is paying off, then other states are likely to go directly to the manufacture.  Guess what the manufacturer will do at that point?  *Increase the supply*!  Really, this isn't that complicated.

----------


## acptulsa

> This is about 2024 for you?


Trust me, this is all about 2024 to the OP, yes.  No, I don't really have an argument against states pushing back against .fedgov, especially considering the way I talked about Montana and their ban on employer mandates.

No, I have no objection to temporary relief at all.  I'm just not any more interested in which Red Flock Shepherd is more Alpha than you are.

Am I concerned DeSantis will get too much credit for this?  Not really.  I'm more concerned that people seem to be confusing this with conservatism.  I'm concerned that no matter how dire the situation becomes, Team Red will never be able to pull their heads out and realize that only their principles will save us.  Their New Alpha Shepherd won't even try, any more than Reagan or Trump did.

I learned from history, and I'm $#@!ing sick of repeating it.  That, too, isn't complicated.

People just _insist_ that the same stupidity that got us into this mess will get us out.  What was that definition of insanity, again?

----------


## PAF

> Still waiting for your solution.


Solution? I have explained it in many a thread, but it falls on deaf ears.

 @acptulsa referred to the definition of insanity. He's right.


Oh, and for sh|ts and grins:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-On-The-Record

----------


## Swordsmyth



----------


## Swordsmyth

> Thank Christ a voice of reason.
> 
> +rep
> 
> All I see happening here is the fedgoov exercising illegitimate authority to ration and ban lifesaving treatments that will end up killing people, based on politics.
> 
> There is another word for that: *genocide*.
> 
> Thank Christ those treatments were not withheld from me over the last week or I would probably be dead now.


Get well soon!

May GOD bless and keep you.

----------


## jmdrake

> Solution? I have explained it in many a thread, but it falls on deaf ears.
> 
>   @acptulsa referred to the definition of insanity. He's right.
> 
> 
> Oh, and for sh|ts and grins:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-On-The-Record


Yes.  You are clearly insane.  I get it.  But I was asking for a solution to saving lives.  Your thread on "Ron DeSantis On The Record" has nothing in it about saving lives.  Question.  Are you a nihilist?  Do you just want people to die?  It seems like it.  Same for @acptulsa.

----------


## jmdrake

> 


The man responsible for vaccines uber alles.

----------


## jmdrake

> Trust me, this is all about 2024 to the OP, yes.  No, I don't really have an argument against states pushing back against .fedgov, especially considering the way I talked about Montana and their ban on employer mandates.


People who are dead before 2024 can't vote in 2024 unless they are democrats.




> No, I have no objection to temporary relief at all.  I'm just not any more interested in which Red Flock Shepherd is more Alpha than you are.


Then what are you babbling about?  I've said repeatedly I don't give a flip about DeSantis.  I'm just glad people are getting access to the treatment they need.  This ain't about "red flock shepherds" and being "alpha."  Where the hell is your sense of compassion?  @Anti Federalist pointed out that this treatment is saving his life.  




> Am I concerned DeSantis will get too much credit for this?  Not really.  I'm more concerned that people seem to be confusing this with conservatism.  I'm concerned that no matter how dire the situation becomes, Team Red will never be able to pull their heads out and realize that only their principles will save us.  Their New Alpha Shepherd won't even try, any more than Reagan or Trump did.


A governor of a state seeking treatment for the people of his state is not a violation of conservatism.  Trump banning bump stocks by executive order is a violation of conservatism.  If you're bitching about "federal money", Ron Paul brought a boatload of federal money back to his district as a congressmen so I guess you'd throw him out too.  But again, if you're such a purist then put your money where your mouth is.  That's something that neither you nor @PAF seem willing to do.  The answer to "The taxpayers shouldn't fund this" is to fund it your own damn self.




> I learned from history, and I'm $#@!ing sick of repeating it.  That, too, isn't complicated.
> 
> People just _insist_ that the same stupidity that got us into this mess will get us out.  What was that definition of insanity, again?


Wishing death on your fellow Americans is pretty insane.

----------


## PAF

> Ron Paul brought a boatload of federal money back to his district as a congressmen so I guess you'd throw him out too.  But again, if you're such a purist then put your money where your mouth is.  That's something that neither you nor @PAF seem willing to do.  The answer to "The taxpayers shouldn't fund this" is to fund it your own damn self.
> 
> Wishing death on your fellow Americans is pretty insane.


You will correct me on this: Ron Paul did not take federal money back and invest in government clinics.

I am not wishing death on anybody. To the contrary, this whole stinking mess is causing illness/side effects/deaths, people not receiving treatment the way that they should, lining the pockets of investors and politicians as the OP stated.

You are missing the entire point. This is about the take-over of privatized healthcare [where markets should determine winners/losers], no matter what form or method they may use.

----------


## acptulsa

> You will correct me on this: Ron Paul did not take federal money back and invest in government clinics.
> 
> I am not wishing death on anybody. To the contrary, this whole stinking mess is causing illness/side effects/deaths, people not receiving treatment the way that they should, lining the pockets of investors and politicians as the OP stated.
> 
> You are missing the entire point. This is about the take-over of privatized healthcare [where markets should determine winners/losers], no matter what form or method they may use.


That's the beauty of problem - reaction - "solution", isn't it?

"They don't need to take this over to save those lives.  We were already saving those lives without government help.  If we let them get away with this power grab, we _will_ regret it from now on."

"How can you be so cold-blooded as to even _think_ of that right now?!?  People are _dying_!!"

I guess it just doesn't pay to keep a calm head in a crisis.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Get well soon!
> 
> May GOD bless and keep you.


Thanks brother, it is much appreciated.

Released from hospital on Tuesday, with improving metrics, but still tested positive.

Yesterday afternoon tested negative with much improved symptoms.

That was dicey there for about 72 hours...caught a particularly virulent "breakthough" strain from a fully vaxxed person.

And how anybody can view what the fedgov is doing in FL as nothing but pure evil is beyond me.

----------


## acptulsa

> And how anybody can view what the fedgov is doing in FL as nothing but pure evil is beyond me.


Just in Florida?  The federal government is pure evil, doing pure evil all over the world.  Of course rationing an effective treatment to sell more of an ineffective "vaccine" is beyond sleazy and psychopathic.  State pushback is just what the doctor ordered.

And until this moment, DeSantis has mostly been part of the problem.  Other governors have been quietly doing the right thing, but the guy trying to turn his whole state's medical industrial complex into fascism is getting all the MSM attention.  I wonder why?

----------


## PAF

> Just in Florida?  The federal government is pure evil, doing pure evil all over the world.  Of course rationing an effective treatment to sell more of an ineffective "vaccine" is beyond sleazy and psychopathic.  State pushback is just what the doctor ordered.
> 
> And until this moment, DeSantis has mostly been part of the problem.  Other governors have been quietly doing the right thing, but the guy trying to turn his whole state's medical industrial complex into fascism is getting all the MSM attention.  I wonder why?



I'm waiting for the day in the future when: "how anybody can view what the United-Nations-Global-Corp. is doing in New Hampshire as nothing but pure evil is beyond me".

----------


## acptulsa

> I'm waiting for the day in the future when: "how anybody can view what the United-Nations-Global-Corp. is doing in New Hampshire as nothing but pure evil is beyond me".


Incrementalism: Overreach, but have a stooge pushing back in a half-assed manner.  The stooge then becomes a hero, and you can "elect" him into a position to grab another increment with less resistance.

If at first you don't succeed, kill a few more people.  You'll get those frogs boiled.

I thought once we got within an inch and a half of full fascist tyranny, people might be willing to draw a line in the sand.  I guess not.

Team Red rah rah blah blah.

I'm against nationalized health care.  I want governors to take it over.  Wheeee!  Look how conservative I am!

Oh, well.  We weren't using that liberty anyway.

----------


## CCTelander

> Thanks brother, it is much appreciated.
> 
> Released from hospital on Tuesday, with improving metrics, but still tested positive.
> 
> Yesterday afternoon tested negative with much improved symptoms.
> 
> That was dicey there for about 72 hours...caught a particularly virulent "breakthough" strain from a fully vaxxed person.
> 
> And how anybody can view what the fedgov is doing in FL as nothing but pure evil is beyond me.



I hadn't realized you were in the hospital, brother. Man, I hope you're recovering quickly. If there's anything, anything at all that we can do from our end here don't hesitate to call. Get better, man. I'll save the arguments for when you're feeling better.

----------


## jmdrake

> You will correct me on this: Ron Paul did not take federal money back and invest in government clinics.


What if he did?  Seriously?  What uses of federal money do you find "acceptable" versus "unacceptable?"  Here is an article on Ron Paul pork.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...1QYP_blog.html




> I am not wishing death on anybody. To the contrary, this whole stinking mess is causing illness/side effects/deaths, people not receiving treatment the way that they should, lining the pockets of investors and politicians as the OP stated.


Great.  At least we're on the same page on that.  The problem that we have right now is that Biden et al are actively blocking treatment options.  Anything reversing that is helpful.  I've asked you multiple times for actual solutions.  You know, that "counter economics" that agorists are *supposed* to be famous for?  Instead, you've just been acting political.  Even negative politics is politics.  Yes, I'm calling you out on your own theory.

----------


## jmdrake

> That's the beauty of problem - reaction - "solution", isn't it?
> 
> "They don't need to take this over to save those lives.  We were already saving those lives without government help.  If we let them get away with this power grab, we _will_ regret it from now on."
> 
> "How can you be so cold-blooded as to even _think_ of that right now?!?  People are _dying_!!"
> 
> I guess it just doesn't pay to keep a calm head in a crisis.


 I don't consider your shrill "attack everybody that disagrees with me while offering no real solutions myself" attitude keeping a calm head.

Edit: And the issue isn't just that people are dying.  People are dying and the only solutions being offered by the fed are authoritarian.  Desantis has been under attack for not pushing mask mandates, lifting lockdowns "too early" and now not pushing for vaccine mandates.  Whether you realize it or not, Desantis is right on all of those issues.  But the COVID stats in his state are used as whipping boy by the authoritarians.  That's what's at stake.

----------


## PAF

> What if he did?  Seriously?  What uses of federal money do you find "acceptable" versus "unacceptable?"  Here is an article on Ron Paul pork.
> 
> Great.  At least we're on the same page on that.  The problem that we have right now is that Biden et al are actively blocking treatment options.  Anything reversing that is helpful.  I've asked you multiple times for actual solutions.  You know, that "counter economics" that agorists are *supposed* to be famous for?  Instead, you've just been acting political.  Even negative politics is politics.  Yes, I'm calling you out on your own theory.


Here we go back to solutions.

Heres a solution, the _only_ viable solution:

Everybody, including voters, decides to stand on principle, and not entertain garbage such as in the OP. Everybody, including voters, demands to get rid of all of the MIC/MIC lobbyists. Everybody, including voters, decides to uphold and defend the Bill of Rights. All of them.

Otherwise, your, and the voters practical solutions, mark the very end of the experiment in liberty.

Thats not what you wanted to hear now, was it.

Because doing the wrong thing is always much easier and more convenient, than doing the right thing.

I am an Agorist for this reason: Left Jack Boot, Right Jack Boot, stay off of my throat, I will find ways as an individual to be as free as I can, without the help of government help me save me do something please!.

----------


## jmdrake

> Here we go back to solutions.
> 
> Here’s a solution, the _only_ viable solution:
> 
> Everybody, including voters, decides to stand on principle, and not entertain garbage such as in the OP. Everybody, including voters, demands to get rid of all of the MIC/MIC lobbyists. Everybody, including voters, decides to uphold and defend the Bill of Rights. All of them.
> 
> Otherwise, your, and the voters “practical” solutions, mark the very end of the experiment in liberty.
> 
> That’s not what you wanted to hear now, was it.
> ...


Yeah...no.  More politics.  No counter economics.  You fail as an agorist.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...reatments.html
> 
>   If you reduce the Covid-19 hospitalizations and death by 70-85% it makes it LESS deadly and a strain on the healthcare system than the common flu!
> 
>   But, of course there is just not enough monoclonal antibodies in the chain and The Fed. Gov. Biden Admin. needs to RESTRICT it's use.
> 
>   The states that have been using the monoclonal and keeping their numbers down are red states. The ones with no mask mandates, no business shut downs.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/healt...cts/index.html





> I'm having trouble following your logic.  What I *think* your concern is that not that what Desantis is doing is actually wrong, but that you're concerned he'll get too much credit for it?  This is about 2024 for you?  
> ...





> Trust me, this is all about 2024 to the OP, yes.  
> ...


We could ask Phill, but I didn't see his OP mention DeSantis or 2024 at all.

PAF mentioned DeSantis, but that has become about as common as E_D saying “Jarvanka” or Swordsmyth posting a “Trump” meme.

----------


## PAF

> We could ask Phill, but I didn't see his OP mention DeSantis or 2024 at all.
> 
> PAF mentioned DeSantis, but that has become about as common as E_D saying Jarvanka or Swordsmyth posting a Trump meme.


Phill brought up the state/fed government solution.

I brought up DeSantis in Post #2, providing accurate information on the how/why/who initiated the government solution.

But yes, let us _not_ discuss the one who is front/center in the media, potential replacement in 2024. Because I am Agorist and choose not to play the game, we should all bury our heads, not understand how we got to this point, and praise/allow said replacement with a pathetic record such as his.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> ...
> I brought up DeSantis in Post #2, providing accurate information on the how/why/who initiated the government “solution”.
> 
> But yes, let us _not_ discuss the one who is front/center in the media, potential replacement in 2024. Because I am Agorist and choose not to play the game, we should all bury our heads, not understand how we got to this point, and praise/allow said replacement with a pathetic record such as his.


I guess I’m not understanding your definition of “not playing the game”, as you seem to post quite a bit about potential 2024 candidates.

----------


## acptulsa

> I guess I’m not understanding your definition of “not playing the game”, as you seem to post quite a bit about potential 2024 candidates.


The man doesn't care to play this game.  Again.




> “Republicans are just as bad as Democrats” and “Neither party represents me” are two common phrases uttered by the politically puerile. It’s time to grow up.
> 
> I have solidly libertarian values. In a perfect world, there would be a viable party of small-government constitutionalists that embraced the philosophy of live and let live. I would vote for that party. No doubt a lot of people would.
> 
> Alas, we don’t live in a perfect world. We live in this world, with all of its flawed, imperfect people doing the best they can. I accept this world. Hardcore libertarians do not. As frustrating as it is to have conversations with avowed leftists/Democrats, at least they suffer from so much TDS and are so addicted to Covid fear porn that you expect their mushy brains to produce mushy ideas. Sure, they vote for the destruction of America – some willingly, some ignorantly – but it’s like witnessing a puppy wet the carpet. The puppy can’t help it anymore than cerebral flatliners can. I fully expect 40% of Americans to be worthlessly stupid. (See: Why voting should be harder, not easier.)
> 
> Conversely, libertarians can help it. They value principles of limited government, personal responsibility, individual liberty, and the ability of a local community to meet most needs. I like all of those ideas, too. They can also rationalize most positions.
> 
> So where is the disconnect? My friends will send tweets of stadiums and New York City marches with the chant of F*** Joe Biden ringing joyously in the foreground. It gives me hope that people are waking up. So I reply by commenting how I hope they all regret not voting for Trump. Amazingly, that is as repugnant as voting for Biden to them.
> ...


Can you, in light of this...




> *Starts at 21 minutes 10 seconds:*


...tell him why he should?  Doing the same stupid thing over and over, expecting a different outcome, is the definition of what, exactly?

Yeah, yeah.  We know.  Phill didn't even _mention_ DeSantis (in this thread).  He didn't disparage libertarians as non team players throwing elections to the greater evil (in this thread).  He didn't say everyone who disagrees with him loves Biden (in this thread). 

Just because CNN spent 24/7 pretending to hate Trump, and is now spending 24/7 pretending to hate DeSantis, does not mean this heavily Big Pharma-sponsored governor is as big a tool as Trump turned out to be.  Stipulated.  You have done a fine job reassuring me.

----------


## PAF

> I guess I’m not understanding your definition of “not playing the game”, as you seem to post quite a bit about potential 2024 candidates.


Well, Brian, here it is:

“Republicans” claim “The Bill of Rights!”, “The Constitution!”, “Biden/Democrats are evil bastards!” (which they are). DeSantis is well-loved, but Rand is unpopular/hated among Florida and other states.

The “On The Records” are to show/prove that “republicans” have no clue as to who/what they are “voting”.

Aside from DeSantis, they praise and love the likes of Cruz, and others on that list with pathetic records. I just came from a Trump-Humper forum this morning where they _still_ praise Trump 2024!, and if not him, they want DeSantis or Cruz on the ticket. I mentioned Tom Massie, and the responses are: “he’s pathetic”, “he’s the most disgusting member in the Congress and we need to throw him out!”, and of course “PAF is a Pelosi sucking LIB”.

Let the “On the Records” speak for themselves, what others do with the information is “On Them”.

As I stated before: Let it not be said… It will take education and a ground swell of people to affect the change that you seek. I will help wherever I can, but the end result is, I will do what I must to circumvent what The People create for themselves.

----------


## PAF

“You must spread rep…@acptulsa”

----------


## PAF

PS: @Brian4Liberty

As I stated before, the "On The Records" are not _only_ for presidential. They are congressmen, senators and governors, who are supposed to represent the people according to the CONstitution, most importantly *The Bill of Rights*.

Individualism and Personal Responsibility, should be foremost, to attain a moral people.

----------


## acptulsa

> PS: @Brian4Liberty
> 
> As I stated before, the "On The Records" are not _only_ for presidential. They are congressmen, senators and governors, who are supposed to represent the people according to the CONstitution, most importantly *The Bill of Rights*.
> 
> Individualism and Personal Responsibility, should be foremost, to attain a moral people.


You're an agorist.  You're not supposed to dig up the truth about candidates.  You're supposed to ignore them and hope they go away.

Nevertheless, if you were to dig up the true dirt on some of the _other team's_ candidates, and only the _other team's_ candidates, the moderator wouldn't cross examine you.  But no. 

 Being a non partisan agorist, you need to stay in the agorist lane and pretend politics doesn't exist. Just a word to the wise...

I may not be an agorist, but I was banned by this very moderator for saying some things about Trump that turned out to be about 117% true.  So you can trust me on this.

----------


## PAF

> You're an agorist.  You're not supposed to dig up the truth about candidates.  You're supposed to ignore them and hope they go away.
> 
> Nevertheless, *if you were to dig up the true dirt on some of the other team's candidates*, and only the _other team's_ candidates, the moderator wouldn't cross examine you.  But no. 
> 
>  Being a non partisan agorist, you need to stay in the agorist lane and pretend politics doesn't exist. Just a word to the wise...


LOL, well the very few times you will _ever_ see me say this, I am an “equal opportunity” VETTER ;-) More to come, stay tuned… (they were also included in the previous 2016 that I did)




> I may not be an agorist, but I was banned by this very moderator for saying some things about Trump that turned out to be about 117% true.  So you can trust me on this.


Whoa, you were banned?! WTF!

----------


## acptulsa

> Whoa, you were banned?! WTF!


I expected you to be informed that I was banned not for telling the truth about Trump, technically, but for being just exactly as polite to his partisan fanboys as they were to me.

Not today, I guess, so I'll just spin it myself.

----------


## Invisible Man

> I may not be an agorist, but I was banned by this very moderator for saying some things about Trump that turned out to be about 117% true.  So you can trust me on this.


You too?

----------


## CCTelander

> I expected you to be informed that *I was banned not for telling the truth about Trump, technically, but for being just exactly as polite to his partisan fanboys as they were to me.*
> 
> Not today, I guess, so I'll just spin it myself.



Which basically amounts to the same thing really, doesn't it? Just sayin'.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> ...
> I may not be an agorist, but I was banned by this very moderator for saying some things about Trump that turned out to be about 117% true.  So you can trust me on this.





> ...
> Whoa, you were banned?! WTF!





> I expected you to be informed that I was banned not for telling the truth about Trump, technically, but for being just exactly as polite to his partisan fanboys as they were to me.
> 
> Not today, I guess, so I'll just spin it myself.


There you go again confusing which moderators take which actions.

You also you seem to forget your ranting, quitting and demanding your own banning.

----------


## acptulsa

> There you go again confusing which moderators take which actions.


These things could happen in the absence of transparency, yes.  Nice non-denial denial, by the way.




> You also you seem to forget your ranting, quitting and demanding your own banning.


Maybe it seems that way because one of us is fuzzy on the timeline.  And forgetting what "if-then" might have been involved.

Not that I'm anxious to play spin-counter spin with the Chiefs playing.  Do carry on unmolested.

----------


## phill4paul

> There you go again confusing which moderators take which actions.
> 
> You also you seem to forget your ranting, quitting and demanding your own banning.


  And there you have it.

----------


## jmdrake

> Phill brought up the state/fed government “solution”.
> 
> I brought up DeSantis in Post #2, providing accurate information on the how/why/who initiated the government “solution”.
> 
> But yes, let us _not_ discuss the one who is front/center in the media, potential replacement in 2024. Because I am Agorist and choose not to play the game, we should all bury our heads, not understand how we got to this point, and praise/allow said replacement with a pathetic record such as his.


Except you ARE playing a game and the game is playing with people's lives.  You have no non government "solution" to the problem created by Biden artificially restricting treatment known to work against COVID.  Your only "solution" is "Well...you can use other stuff over the counter."  That's not a solution.  That's redefining the problem.  And then you tried the cheap emotional trick of "If you aren't against Desantis on this, you no longer believe in End the Fed."  Whatever dude.

I don't care about Desantis.  But I'm pretty sure, based on his record in congress, that a governor Ron Paul would be doing exactly what Desantis is doing.  Because while as a congressmen even though he railed against federal spending, he most certainly directed quite a bit of it to his district.  And because you derailed the thread an important point has gotten missed.  If the Dr. Fauci and his cronies actually gave a rip about saving lives then they would be pushing forward with every possible treatment and not just pushing authoritarian measures.

----------


## jmdrake

> Well, Brian, here it is:
> 
> “Republicans” claim “The Bill of Rights!”, “The Constitution!”, “Biden/Democrats are evil bastards!” (which they are). DeSantis is well-loved, but Rand is unpopular/hated among Florida and other states.
> 
> The “On The Records” are to show/prove that “republicans” have no clue as to who/what they are “voting”.
> 
> Aside from DeSantis, they praise and love the likes of Cruz, and others on that list with pathetic records. I just came from a Trump-Humper forum this morning where they _still_ praise Trump 2024!, and if not him, they want DeSantis or Cruz on the ticket. I mentioned Tom Massie, and the responses are: “he’s pathetic”, “he’s the most disgusting member in the Congress and we need to throw him out!”, and of course “PAF is a Pelosi sucking LIB”.
> 
> Let the “On the Records” speak for themselves, what others do with the information is “On Them”.
> ...


Yeah....except this *one* action you're attacking Desantis on isn't a violation of the bill of rights and is arguably constitutional and is certainly no worse than what Ron Paul did in congress directing federal money to his district.  You dig up some *REAL* dirt on Desantis?  Fine.  Cool.  Nobody has a problem with that.  I can't stand Trump.  That's well known.  But occasionally the "orange monkey", as @Anti Federalist calls him, did something I actually agreed with.  You won't see me attacking Trump on criminal justice reform, for example, because he actually got that right.  Same with negotiating an end to Afghanistan.  Biden was right to pull us out.  He just did the pull out in the most screwed up way possible.  There is much nuance to politics and you seem oblivious to that fact.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Except you ARE playing a game and the game is playing with people's lives.  You have no non government "solution" to the problem created by Biden artificially restricting treatment known to work against COVID.  Your only "solution" is "Well...you can use other stuff over the counter."  That's not a solution.  That's redefining the problem.  And then you tried the cheap emotional trick of "If you aren't against Desantis on this, you no longer believe in End the Fed."  Whatever dude.
> 
> I don't care about Desantis.  But I'm pretty sure, based on his record in congress, that a governor Ron Paul would be doing exactly what Desantis is doing.  Because while as a congressmen even though he railed against federal spending, he most certainly directed quite a bit of it to his district.  And because you derailed the thread an important point has gotten missed.  *If the Dr. Fauci and his cronies actually gave a rip about saving lives then they would be pushing forward with every possible treatment and not just pushing authoritarian measures.*


Having just come though a bad case of COVID this is exactly my point.

Being a small state, with a GOP government, I had pretty much everything at my disposal. Upon admission it was confirmed that lung function was decreased dangerously, my response was: "Throw the kitchen sink at this mess". The treating doctor then explained what parts of the kitchen sink would be counter productive to throw at this sickness right now, a course of action was decided upon and within 12 hours, I started showing signs of improvement.

Anything that was needed was available to me, paid for by me by the way, and not artificially restricted due to cheap political fatwas from the likes of Biden or that turd Fauchi.

Can someone explain to me why I'm supposed to hate DeSantis for standing up to the fedgov on this?

----------


## acptulsa

> I don't consider your shrill "attack everybody that disagrees with me while offering no real solutions myself" attitude keeping a calm head.
> 
> Edit: And the issue isn't just that people are dying.  People are dying and the only solutions being offered by the fed are authoritarian.  Desantis has been under attack for not pushing mask mandates, lifting lockdowns "too early" and now not pushing for vaccine mandates.  Whether you realize it or not, Desantis is right on all of those issues.  But the COVID stats in his state are used as whipping boy by the authoritarians.  That's what's at stake.


No, there's more at stake than that.

This gang is walking down the street breaking windows.  And they're sneering at the people rushing in behind them to sweep up the broken glass before someone comes along barefoot, or with thin rubber soles, and gets cut.

And the reason they're sneering is because everyone is so busy cleaning up after them, and the more windows they break, the busier everyone else gets.  But it would be a damned sight more efficient use of everyone's time to put the gang's heads through one of those windows.  Then it would be possible to actually get the mess cleaned up, because the gang would no longer be making it worse.

DeSantis is right on a number of things.  I'm glad.  I hope his actions save lives.  But there are people who will see him do some things right, ignore things he does wrong and pin the savior label on him.  And the things he does wrong, like opening state hospitals and clinics, will do plenty of harm in the long run.

It's problem - reaction - solution combined with good cop - bad cop.  And while the "good cop" is sweeping up a few shards here, he seems to be scoping out more windows to break a bit further down.

They didn't create this crisis to let it go to waste.  And I don't like betraying those who will get sick in the future to get a plea bargain that will save those who are sick now.  I'm sorry.  I just don't like it.  At all.

----------


## jmdrake

> Having just come though a bad case of COVID this is exactly my point.
> 
> Being a small state, with a GOP government, I had pretty much everything at my disposal. Upon admission it was confirmed that lung function was decreased dangerously, my response was: "Throw the kitchen sink at this mess". The treating doctor then explained what parts of the kitchen sink would be counter productive to throw at this sickness right now, a course of action was decided upon and within 12 hours, I started showing signs of improvement.
> 
> Anything that was needed was available to me, paid for by me by the way, and not artificially restricted due to cheap political fatwas from the likes of Biden or that turd Fauchi.
> 
> Can someone explain to me why I'm supposed to hate DeSantis for standing up to the fedgov on this?


Don't expect anything but crickets on this.





> No, there's more at stake than that.
> 
> This gang is walking down the street breaking windows.  And they're sneering at the people rushing in behind them to sweep up the broken glass before someone comes along barefoot, or with thin rubber soles, and gets cut.
> 
> And the reason they're sneering is because everyone is so busy cleaning up after them, and the more windows they break, the busier everyone else gets.  But it would be a damned sight more efficient use of everyone's time to put the gang's heads through one of those windows.  Then it would be possible to actually get the mess cleaned up, because the gang would no longer be making it worse.
> 
> DeSantis is right on a number of things.  I'm glad.  I hope his actions save lives.  But there are people who will see him do some things right, ignore things he does wrong and pin the savior label on him.  And the things he does wrong, like opening state hospitals and clinics, will do plenty of harm in the long run.
> 
> It's problem - reaction - solution combined with good cop - bad cop.  And while the "good cop" is sweeping up a few shards here, he seems to be scoping out more windows to break a bit further down.
> ...


Dude, you act like Desantis invented state hospitals.  Those existed before you were born.  Enough with the hyperbole.

----------


## acptulsa

> Don't expect anything but crickets on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you act like Desantis invented state hospitals.  Those existed before you were born.  Enough with the hyperbole.


Go along to get along--down the road to tyranny.

This isn't hyperbole.  When a young woman I knew is lying dead of heart failure after getting jabbed, you can bet I consider it serious business.

Tyranny may be hyperbolic in its onset, but that doesn't make efforts to fight it hyperbole.  Despite his name, DeSantis is no saint.  Standing up to the federal government is an outstanding thing.  But I've had enough warp speed.

You're playing a game with people's lives, too, if you say I like the way this guy rations stuff better than the way that guy rations stuff.  Is there a better practical choice?  Maybe not.  But maybe there is.

Prohibition ended.  People could finally stop saying, gee, I wish that boss would take this neighborhood over as he kills less people than this boss.  With all these people carrying the Super Spreader Super Mutator Shot® this problem won't be going away soon.  Long term harm for short term gain _will kill more in the end._ Someone has to think beyond the end of this week.

Call me what you want for saying it, but the new boss smells the same as the old boss.  Take the bones he throws us, by all means.  But don't go hanging around his door when he stops throwing bones and rolls up his newspaper.

Excuse me for pissing on the party.  But that needed to be said.

----------


## jmdrake

> Go along to get along--down the road to tyranny.
> 
> This isn't hyperbole.  When a young woman I knew is lying dead of heart failure after getting jabbed, you can bet I consider it serious business.
> 
> Tyranny may be hyperbolic in its onset, but that doesn't make efforts to fight it hyperbole.  Despite his name, DeSantis is no saint.  Standing up to the federal government is an outstanding thing.  But I've had enough warp speed.
> 
> You're playing a game with people's lives, too, if you say I like the way this guy rations stuff better than the way that guy rations stuff.  Is there a better practical choice?  Maybe not.  But maybe there is.
> 
> Prohibition ended.  People could finally stop saying, gee, I wish that boss would take this neighborhood over as he kills less people than this boss.  With all these people carrying the Super Spreader Super Mutator Shot® this problem won't be going away soon.  Long term harm for short term gain _will kill more._ Someone has to think beyond the end of this week.
> ...


So you know someone that's dead from being jabbed with the vaccine or jabbed with monoclonal antibodies?  If it's the monoclonal antibodies that's the first I've heard of this.  If it's the vaccine....well then you're fighting the wrong fight.  The best defense against the tyranny of universal vaccination is to have other options besides vaccination.  And that's a totally separate issue to whether or not Desantis is satan incarnate or whatever you think he is.  And no.  I'm not playing games with people's lives.  Quite the opposite.  It's not about "rationing."  It's about increasing the supply.  Biden bought up all the regeneron.  Desantis has now gone to other companies producing other versions of the same thing.  So the supply is increasing, not decreasing, thanks to Desantis' actions.  You really have no idea what you are talking about.

https://www.wptv.com/coronavirus/gov...from-drugmaker

----------


## PAF

double post

----------


## PAF

> Except you ARE playing a game and the game is playing with people's lives.  You have no non government "solution" to the problem created by Biden artificially restricting treatment known to work against COVID.  Your only "solution" is "Well...you can use other stuff over the counter."  That's not a solution.  That's redefining the problem.  And then you tried the cheap emotional trick of "If you aren't against Desantis on this, you no longer believe in End the Fed."  Whatever dude.
> 
> I don't care about Desantis.  But I'm pretty sure, based on his record in congress, that a governor Ron Paul would be doing exactly what Desantis is doing.  Because while as a congressmen even though he railed against federal spending, he most certainly directed quite a bit of it to his district.  And because you derailed the thread an important point has gotten missed.  *If the Dr. Fauci and his cronies actually gave a rip about saving lives then they would be pushing forward with every possible treatment and not just pushing authoritarian measures.*



Look, _dude_, ^^ Government has NO business in Healthcare, Providing, or Rationing ^^

I don't agree with Walter Block on _every_ issue, but the man in the boat scenario... listen to it. May the best man win (and no, I am not advocating people die).

----------


## PAF

> Don't expect anything but crickets on this.
> 
> Dude, you act like Desantis invented state hospitals.  Those existed before you were born.  Enough with the hyperbole.



Oh, so...perpetuate the problem. That's rich.

----------


## jmdrake

> Look, _dude_, ^^ Government has NO business in Healthcare, Providing, or Rationing ^^
> 
> I don't agree with Walter Block on _every_ issue, but the man in the boat scenario... listen to it. May the best man win (and no, I am not advocating people die).


That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.  But a governor Ron Paul, based on his record as a congressman, would be doing exactly what Governor Desantis is doing and that is taking steps to make sure the people in his state had access to necessary treatment.

----------


## jmdrake

> Oh, so...perpetuate the problem. That's rich.


Letting people die for no reason.  That's rich.

----------


## acptulsa

> You really have no idea what you are talking about.


One of us doesn't know what I'm talking about, certainly.  There were state hospitals before I was born.  Most here were warehouses for the insane, and they were so awful people decided the insane were better off homeless in the street.  Literally.  Most worldwide were in the USSR, and those were so bad the USSR was toppled, and remains unlamented.

One of the things both were most famous for is medicating people against their will.  The thing both were least famous for was offering choices.

More choices.  More sources.  Good.  Instant gratification is good when people are dying.  I say the long term price is high.  I don't know if you don't believe that or don't care.  So we cross that bridge when we come to it.

Unless we burned it behind us.

----------


## jmdrake

> One of us doesn't know what I'm talking about, certainly.  There were state hospitals before I was born.  Most here were warehouses for the insane, and they were so awful people decided the insane were better off homeless in the street.  Literally.  Most worldwide were in the USSR, and those were so bad the USSR was toppled, and remains unlamented.
> 
> One of the things both were most famous for is medicating people against their will.  The thing both were least famous for was offering choices.
> 
> More choices.  More sources.  Good.  Instant gratification is good when people are dying.  I say the long term price is high.  I don't know if you don't believe that or don't care.  So we cross that bridge when we come to it.
> 
> Unless we burned it behind us.


 I'm not willing to go along with immediate deaths just to satisfy your sense of outrage over the USSR.  And this isn't the USSR.  This is the USA and there are state hospitals existing right now, and have been for years.  Also Desantis didn't build new state hospitals for the monoclonal antibodies.  He set up centers in places like libraries and seniors centers.  So...you're even more wrong than I initially thought.  I see you didn't bother answer the question of whether your friend died of the vaccine or of the monoclonal antibodies.  No matter.  I can deduce the answer.  Your friend might still be alive if she felt she had a choice other than getting vaccinated.  I am happy that people in Florida have that choice.

----------


## PAF

> *That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.*  But a governor Ron Paul, based on his record as a congressman, would be doing exactly what Governor Desantis is doing and that is taking steps to make sure the people in his state had access to necessary treatment.


Gee, thanks for your permission.

----------


## acptulsa

The thing state hospitals were and are most famous for is medicating people against their will. The thing state hospitals were and are least famous for is offering choices.

Either we have brains enough to see if the cheese is bait in a trap regardless of how hungry we are, or we gobbles the cheese and takes our chances.

----------


## PAF

> The thing state hospitals were and are most famous for is medicating people against their will. The thing state hospitals were and are least famous for is offering choices.
> 
> Either we have brains enough to see if the cheese is bait in a trap regardless of how hungry we are, or we gobbles the cheese and takes our chances.


Any time every time .gov is involved, _always_ results in the loss of freedoms.

----------


## jmdrake

> Gee, thanks for your permission.


You're welcome.  From the same Ron Paul.

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=1004228797051268&_rdr

"Praise For Florida's Governor Desantis Who Keeps Delivering The Good News."

Oh no!  Dr. "End The Fed" is no longer "End The Fed."

----------


## jmdrake

> The thing state hospitals were and are most famous for is medicating people against their will. The thing state hospitals were and are least famous for is offering choices.
> 
> Either we have brains enough to see if the cheese is bait in a trap regardless of how hungry we are, or we gobbles the cheese and takes our chances.


We're not even talking about state hospitals.  You just made that shyt up.

----------


## acptulsa

> We're not even talking about state hospitals.  You just made that shyt up.


Well of course I did.




> *Ron DeSantis On The Record*
> 
> 
> Data taken from: https://web.archive.org/web/20190505...nameid=D000621
> 
> 
> - Top Donor Of Gov. Ron DeSantis Is Regeneron Investor. Citadel CEO Ken Griffin has donated $10.75 million to a political committee that supports DeSantis. He also donated $5.75 million in 2018 and $5 million last April.
> 
> Citadel’s investment in Regeneron is a fraction of its overall $39 billion in investments, but if the stock price were to go up, Citadel would benefit. DeSantis spokeswoman Christina Pushaw points out that Citadel has far greater investments in Moderna and Pfizer, which manufacture COVID-19 vaccines.
> ...

----------


## jmdrake

> Well of course I did.


You have know idea how retarded you are sounding now.  None of those sites mentioned are "state hospitals."  And yes, I already checked.  Here is an example of your "state hospital."  

_

Duval County

Jacksonville Public Library

304 North Main Street

Jacksonville, Florida 32202

Hours: 7 days a week; 9:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m._

A freaking public library.  Not even a hospital.  Here's the full list.

https://www.flgov.com/2021/08/21/gov...atee-counties/

There is ONE hospital on the list *but it already existed before COVID*.  So no.  There's zero evidence that Desantis has used federal money to build state hospitals for the COVID crisis.  You have no freaking idea what you are talking about.

----------


## PAF

> You have know idea how retarded you are sounding now.  None of those sites mentioned are "state hospitals."  And yes, I already checked.  Here is an example of your "state hospital."  
> 
> _
> 
> Duval County
> 
> Jacksonville Public Library
> 
> 304 North Main Street
> ...


Facilities, Clinics... whatever.

What the world doesn't need: Lobbyists in government and their *attorneys*, JMDrake.





> Florida Opens Monoclonal Antibody Treatment Center
> 
> The *state-run facility*, at C.B. Smith Park, will be able to treat up to 300 patients per day and will be open from 9:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. seven days a week.
> 
> The facility, at West Gate Park in West Palm Beach, will also be able to treat up 300 patients per day and is open from 9:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m. seven days a week.
> 
> *The governor stated that more sites would be open statewide* including a location in Miami-Dade County by the end of the week.
> 
> *The treatment is free.*
> ...

----------


## jmdrake

> Facilities, Clinics... whatever.
> 
> What the world doesn't need: Lobbyists in government and their *attorneys*, JMDrake.


LOL.  Still mad at Ron Paul for praising Ron Desantis?  Or are you just going to pretend that didn't happen?

----------


## acptulsa

> Facilities, Clinics... whatever.
> 
> What the world doesn't need: Lobbyists in government and their *attorneys*, JMDrake.


Save your breath.

----------


## PAF

> LOL.  Still mad at Ron Paul for praising Ron Desantis?  Or are you just going to pretend that didn't happen?


I have no idea what you're talking about. Could be true, could not be true. One thing that is true, is that I remain principled.

----------


## jmdrake

> I have no idea what you're talking about. Could be true, could not be true. One thing that is true, is that I remain principled.


Nope.  At this point you're not principled.  You're being straight up dishonest.  You posted a clip of Ron that you think supports your position and right after that I responded with a video of Ron Paul praising Ron Desantis.  And you want to act like you don't know what I am talking about?  Sorry, that's just dishonest.  I really disappointed in you now.  But that's okay.  Life goes on.

----------


## jmdrake

> Save your breath.


LOL.  What a coward move by you.

----------


## PAF

> Nope.  At this point you're not principled.  You're being straight up dishonest.  You posted a clip of Ron that you think supports your position and right after that I responded with a video of Ron Paul praising Ron Desantis.  And you want to act like you don't know what I am talking about?  Sorry, that's just dishonest.  I really disappointed in you now.  But that's okay.  Life goes on.


I don't spend time watching a lot of videos, and I didn't watch the one that you posted, so there's no dishonesty there.

If you're referring to a video where he praised him for no lockdowns and mask mandates, sure, I'll buy it.

Point to the Post # and I'll give it a look - and I'll just about guarantee ahead of time that Ron Paul did *not* praise him for opening government-run clinics across the state and using federals dollars to give out medicine "for free".

----------


## PAF

> *At this point you're not principled.  You're being straight up dishonest.  You posted a clip of Ron that you think supports your position*






> I don't spend time watching a lot of videos, and I didn't watch the one that you posted, so there's no dishonesty there.
> 
> If you're referring to a video where he praised him for no lockdowns and mask mandates, sure, I'll buy it.
> 
> Point to the Post # and I'll give it a look - and I'll just about guarantee ahead of time that Ron Paul did *not* praise him for opening government-run clinics across the state and using federals dollars to give out medicine "for free".



I'm still waitng, Attorney     @jmdrake ;-)

----------


## jmdrake

> I don't spend time watching a lot of videos, and I didn't watch the one that you posted, so there's no dishonesty there.
> 
> If you're referring to a video where he praised him for no lockdowns and mask mandates, sure, I'll buy it.
> 
> Point to the Post # and I'll give it a look - and I'll just about guarantee ahead of time that Ron Paul did *not* praise him for opening government-run clinics across the state and using federals dollars to give out medicine "for free".


Here is Ron Paul praising Desantis for his stance on monoclonal antibodies.




And Ron Paul attacked the "smoking gun" that you've been using against Desantis.  Desantis was attacked by the AP for pushing Regeron when the company that makes Regeron is a major donor.  But then Dr. Fauci came out and said the same thing Desantis was saying about monoclonal antibodies.  And with Biden having bought up the entire supply of Regeron, Desantis has gone to other companies making the same thing.  That undermines the whole "Desantis is just doing this for his donor" argument the AP was deceitfully making.  

Now, this has taken a personal twist.  My dad, 85 and double vaxxed, is positive for COVID.  I'm in Alabama.  We have monoclonal antibody clinics.  I don't know if they are state funded or federal funded or private funded or what.  He got tested for free at the VA (Vietnam veteran).  Medicare will probably pay for the treatment.  And I don't give a flying fig if you have a problem with that.  You're doing absolutely nothing to solve the actual problem we're facing right now.  That's not called being principled.  It's called being stupid.

Edit: And since this is apparently what you were "waiting for" I'm not going to let you dishonestly weasel out of the truth here.  The context of this video by Dr. Paul was Desantis making more monoclonal antibody treatment available.  Dr. Paul praised Destantis foresight on this and he pretty much ignored your concerns about state run clinics.

----------


## jmdrake

> I'm still waitng, Attorney     @jmdrake ;-)


Waiting for what exactly?  You're strange.

----------


## PAF

> Here is Ron Paul praising Desantis for his stance on monoclonal antibodies.
> 
> And Ron Paul attacked the "smoking gun" that you've been using against Desantis.  Desantis was attacked by the AP for pushing Regeron when the company that makes Regeron is a major donor.  But then Dr. Fauci came out and said the same thing Desantis was saying about monoclonal antibodies.  And with Biden having bought up the entire supply of Regeron, Desantis has gone to other companies making the same thing.  That undermines the whole "Desantis is just doing this for his donor" argument the AP was deceitfully making.  
> 
> Edit: And since this is apparently what you were "waiting for" *I'm not going to let you dishonestly weasel out of the truth* here.  The context of this video by Dr. Paul was Desantis making more monoclonal antibody treatment available.  Dr. Paul praised Destantis foresight on this and he pretty much ignored your concerns about state run clinics.



Attorney   @jmdrake

I saw that video when it was published and just watched it again.

Ron Paul spoke about DeSantis concerning the _EFFECTIVENESS_ of monoclonal, along with other possible treatments. *NOWHERE* in the entire video did Ron Paul mention, praise or advocate _anything_ related to DeSantis's _government facilities_ and/or _federal_ dollars to provide monoclonal, or any treatment, for free.

----------


## jmdrake

> Attorney @jmdrake
> 
> I saw that video when it was published and just watched it again.
> 
> Ron Paul spoke about DeSantis concerning the _EFFECTIVENESS_ of monoclonal. *NOWHERE* in the entire video did Ron Paul mention, praise or advocate _anything_ related to DeSantis's _government facilities_ and/or _federal_ dollars to provide monoclonal, or any treatment, for free.


Right moron.  And notice *that nowhere did he attack the policy either*!  Ron Paul read the same story that you did and he praised Desantis' recognition of the effectiveness of monoclonal antibodies.  If Ron Paul actually thought what Desantis did was SOOOO bad, the way you seem to think it is, why did he pass over the opportunity to criticize Desantis over it?

Edit: At this point I'll let you have the last word that your inflated ego craves so much.  You haven't gained anything by your rants.  No new converts to agorism.  No new people hating Desantis.  All you've done is convinced an erstwhile ally that you have a couple of screws loose.  Congratulations!  Well done!

----------


## PAF

> Right moron.  And notice *that nowhere did he attack the policy either*!  Ron Paul read the same story that you did and he praised Desantis' recognition of the effectiveness of monoclonal antibodies.  If Ron Paul actually thought what Desantis did was SOOOO bad, the way you seem to think it is, why did he pass over the opportunity to criticize Desantis over it?



He eluded in the video how government interference is wrong. As he does all of the time.

He figures we who advocate liberty already know this by default, not taking into account you _attorneys_.

----------


## PAF

Corss-referencing, @jmdrake

Let the On the Record speak for itself. What you do with it is on you, not me.

----------


## acptulsa

> He eluded in the video how government interference is wrong. As he does all of the time.
> 
> He figures we who advocate liberty already know this by default, not taking into account you _attorneys_.


He did more than allude to it.  He said it outright.

And he did not attack those who pointed out that DeSantis is getting some mighty big bucks, either.  One would assume an attorney would have heard of a thing called royalties.

But you know.  If your dad's sick as hell, and your enemy is trying to forbid the use of a promising treatment, all his enemies real and contrived are your friends.  And anyone who questions an enemy of your enemy, actual or contrived, sounds retarded.

It's natural.  And it doesn't lead to rational discussion.

----------


## jmdrake

> Corss-referencing, @jmdrake
> 
> Let the On the Record speak for itself. What you do with it is on you, not me.


I already let you have the last word a$$hole.  Why are you just not being happy with that?

----------


## PAF

> He did more than allude to it.  He said it outright.
> 
> And he did not attack those who pointed out that DeSantis is getting some mighty big bucks, either.  One would assume an attorney would have heard of a thing called royalties.
> 
> But you know.  If your dad's sick as hell, and your enemy is trying to forbid the use of a promising treatment, all his enemies real and contrived are your friends.  And anyone who questions an enemy of your enemy, actual or contrived, sounds retarded.
> 
> It's natural.  And it doesn't lead to rational discussion.


++REP++

Due to work schedule, I am not able to care for my mother 24/7, so she is currently in a nursing home. They shot her up twice with the jab without my knowledge or approval because "in-house rules". I raised hell with the administration but it was after the fact.

All of this is a bad situation. Readily available solutions or not, it is up to each of us as individuals to fight back in our own ways. But I am not going to sit around and cry but but but.

----------


## Danke

> ++REP++
> 
> Due to work schedule, I am not able to care for my mother 24/7, so she is currently in a nursing home. They shot her up twice with the jab without my knowledge or approval because "in-house rules". I raised hell with the administration but it was after the fact.
> 
> All of this is a bad situation. Readily available solutions or not, it is up to each of us as individuals to fight back in our own ways. But I am not going to sit around and cry but but but.


Sorry to hear that.  I finally had to get a jab or be terminated.  I chose J&J as it is only one jab and not a mRNA, more of a traditional “vaccine.”  Although risks of blood clotting…

----------


## devil21

Don't know, don't care.  No pharma needle is being inserted into my body based on the coronahoax.  The media is pivoting toward pushing it to people who refuse the vaccines, particularly in the south.  

Regeneron's CEO is Trump's golf buddy at Mar-A-Lago.  No thanks.

----------


## CCTelander

> Here is Ron Paul praising Desantis for his stance on monoclonal antibodies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Ron Paul attacked the "smoking gun" that you've been using against Desantis.  Desantis was attacked by the AP for pushing Regeron when the company that makes Regeron is a major donor.  But then Dr. Fauci came out and said the same thing Desantis was saying about monoclonal antibodies.  And with Biden having bought up the entire supply of Regeron, Desantis has gone to other companies making the same thing.  That undermines the whole "Desantis is just doing this for his donor" argument the AP was deceitfully making.  
> 
> *Now, this has taken a personal twist.  My dad, 85 and double vaxxed, is positive for COVID.  I'm in Alabama.  We have monoclonal antibody clinics.  I don't know if they are state funded or federal funded or private funded or what.*  He got tested for free at the VA (Vietnam veteran).  Medicare will probably pay for the treatment.  And I don't give a flying fig if you have a problem with that.  You're doing absolutely nothing to solve the actual problem we're facing right now.  That's not called being principled.  It's called being stupid.
> 
> Edit: And since this is apparently what you were "waiting for" I'm not going to let you dishonestly weasel out of the truth here.  The context of this video by Dr. Paul was Desantis making more monoclonal antibody treatment available.  Dr. Paul praised Destantis foresight on this and he pretty much ignored your concerns about state run clinics.



Hope your dad's ok. I'll save any arguments for another time.

----------


## Ender

Hey Guys!

Y'all are some of my favorite members- can we agree to disagree w/o all the hate?

----------


## acptulsa

> Hey Guys!
> 
> Y'all are some of my favorite members- can we agree to disagree w/o all the hate?


We can do better than that.  We can pray for the elder Drake.

----------


## 69360

Explain why some of you would be willing to take the antibodies but not the vax. I would not take either. Don't trust them.

----------


## PAF

> Explain why some of you would be willing to take the antibodies but not the vax. I would not take either. Don't trust them.


I believe the natural immune system should do what it is designed to do. If it is having difficulty doing so, I will discuss options with my own private physician. If something is prescribed or recommended, I will look at the information to see what the long-term side-affects are, and weigh the pros and cons.

Like personal investments, what I take into my body is nobody’s business.

----------


## jmdrake

> Explain why some of you would be willing to take the antibodies but not the vax. I would not take either. Don't trust them.


I believe in freedom of choice.  Mandates, of all kinds, are evil.  There is no monoclonal antibody mandate.  My dad was double vaxxed.  I am not.  We both have COVID.  I'm pretty sure I caught it from him.  I didn't tell him to get vaxxed or not to get vaxxed.  I'm glad he's vaxxed if for no other reason than I would never hear the end of it from my other relatives.  There are all sorts of treatments that seem to get people over COVID quicker.  Evidence strongly suggests monoclonal antibodies do.  My ex wife, who's an infectious disease doctor at a major hospital, told me to take mag citrate...which will have me on the toilet for a long time.  (My brother who's a nurse jokingly said she just hates me but we'll see.)  And yes, she endorses the monoclonal antibodies.  (Getting that set up for my dad.)  I'm not seeing this evidence for the vaccine though.  I'm mean...*my dad was double vaxxed*.  Yeah...yeah...I know.  "Small number of breakthrough infections."  Seems to be a whole lot of that.  For something that is so flaky, why is it being mandated?  The small minded look at past vaccination campaigns like smallpox and polio and try to draw equivalences.  But those vaccines were 90+% effective.  These vaccines are at best 60% effective with some estimates being as low as 39% effective.  Nigeria was able to stop smallpox with 50% of the population being vaccinated in a "ring vaccination" program because the effectiveness of the vaccine was so high.  Such a plan is impossible with the garbage vaccines being pushed for COVID.  But at the end of the day it comes down to one word.  Freedom.

----------


## jmdrake

> We can do better than that.  We can pray for the elder Drake.


Thanks.  And for the record, we both have COVID.

----------


## acptulsa

> Thanks.  And for the record, we both have COVID.


Wish I could boil you some chicken bones.  Please don't lie down flat with chest congestion, that's how pneumonia forms.

Kick its ass.  Please.

----------


## jmdrake

> ++REP++
> 
> Due to work schedule, I am not able to care for my mother 24/7, so she is currently in a nursing home. They shot her up twice with the jab without my knowledge or approval because "in-house rules". I raised hell with the administration but it was after the fact.
> 
> All of this is a bad situation. Readily available solutions or not, it is up to each of us as individuals to fight back in our own ways. But I am not going to sit around and cry but but but.


Bless you!  My mom passed before vaccine madness took over.  She died peacefully in her sleep at age 91.  My dad made his own mind to get vaxxed.  When my mom was alive, visitation was the biggest battle.  I was the one who stayed at the hospital 24/7.  Towards the end they let me dad do that too.  At one point they were so strict that when she had a visitor from out of town they weren't going to let me back in because of an arbitrary "Only one visitor per 24 hours" rule.  He asked me what he should do and I said let mom make the choice.  She was like "He came all this way to see me.  I can see my son the next day."  So that's what we did.  Personal autonomy and freedom have been the real casualties of this pandemic.

----------


## PAF

> Bless you!  My mom passed before vaccine madness took over.  She died peacefully in her sleep at age 91.  My dad made his own mind to get vaxxed.  When my mom was alive, visitation was the biggest battle.  I was the one who stayed at the hospital 24/7.  Towards the end they let me dad do that too.  At one point they were so strict that when she had a visitor from out of town they weren't going to let me back in because of an arbitrary "Only one visitor per 24 hours" rule.  He asked me what he should do and I said let mom make the choice.  She was like "He came all this way to see me.  I can see my son the next day."  So that's what we did.  Personal autonomy and freedom have been the real casualties of this pandemic.


I am very sorry to hear that, JM, my sincerest condolences... it is good that she passed peacefully.

Some members of my family also got the jab, whatever each feels they have to do. Others are in-the-know, and will not be receiving it.

----------


## PAF



----------


## belian78

> Whoa! You sound just like @Swordsmyth !!!
> 
> Accounts hi-jacked, re-used, etc., I can't prove any of that - other than what you say and try to push.


Careful...  You gonna get the belian treatment here soon.  lmao..  But they do make it obvious, given enough time.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sorry to hear that.  I finally had to get a jab or be terminated.  I chose J&J as it is only one jab and not a mRNA, more of a traditional vaccine.  Although risks of blood clotting


Are you OK?

----------


## Anti Globalist

Joe Biden don't give a damn about monoclonal antibodies.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sorry to hear that.  I finally had to get a jab or be terminated.  I chose J&J as it is only one jab and not a mRNA, more of a traditional vaccine.  Although risks of blood clotting


 @Anti Federalist can you contact him to see if he is still alive?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> @Anti Federalist can you contact him to see if he is still alive?


I tried calling him a few times and got no response.

----------


## TheTexan

Perhaps a welfare check is in order.  Calling the police now.  I will let them know he tends to be disgruntled and has many guns.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I tried calling him a few times and got no response.

----------


## Anti Globalist

Hopefully Danke is ok.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Hopefully Danke is ok.


Yes, it's not normal for Danke to be gone this long.

----------


## dannno

If anybody has a membership at Timcast, you can watch the third hour of the interview with Peter Navarro from the former Trump admin (economic adviser I believe, the only one to make it all the way through the campaign and the entire first term). 

He discusses weaponized covid, the vaccines (which were intended to be for those in high risk categories, not a silver bullet). The therapeutics were supposed to be what was going to take this thing out, or help us live with it, including monoclonal antibodies, HCQ, ivermectin.. but the FDA and deep state blocked them every step of the way. Also discusses election fraud and some other topics in that third hour. The first two hours are available on youtube, but they don't discuss these topics that are foreboden on youtube.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sorry to hear that.  I finally had to get a jab or be terminated.  I chose J&J as it is only one jab and not a mRNA, more of a traditional vaccine.  Although risks of blood clotting

----------


## Working Poor

> If anybody has a membership at Timcast, you can watch the third hour of the interview with Peter Navarro from the former Trump admin (economic adviser I believe, the only one to make it all the way through the campaign and the entire first term). 
> 
> He discusses weaponized covid, the vaccines (which were intended to be for those in high risk categories, not a silver bullet). The therapeutics were supposed to be what was going to take this thing out, or help us live with it, including monoclonal antibodies, HCQ, ivermectin.. but the FDA and deep state blocked them every step of the way. Also discusses election fraud and some other topics in that third hour. The first two hours are available on youtube, but they don't discuss these topics that are foreboden on youtube.


HCQ can be made at home using grapefruit peels ivermectin can be bought at any feed store and dosing is by weight. Also Chlorine Dioxide can be made at home using inexpensive ingredients and is probably more effective than the other 2 it also will detox the vaccine. We have options if anyone has in questions about Chlorine Dioxide I will be happy to help you find answers it is not that hard to get ready made yet. I won't make it for anyone but myself but it is very easy to do if you can follow instructions. 




> Sorry to hear that. I finally had to get a jab or be terminated. I chose J&J as it is only one jab and not a mRNA, more of a traditional vaccine. Although risks of blood clotting


 @Danke I hope you are okay please call someone if you can.

----------


## devil21

A close friend's son recently underwent covid testing due to proximity to a positive test person.  His rapid result and PCR test both were negative.  Then, for some reason I can't fathom, he decided to take the monoclonal treatment.  He immediately fell ill afterward and subsequently tested positive and is now an official covid case.  

(eta:  this was all in the span of about a week.  first tests over two days, monoclonal treatment couple days later, illness started following day, second testing, now positive, the following day.  slowly recovering from symptoms ongoing.)

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> A close friend's son recently underwent covid testing due to proximity to a positive test person.  His rapid result and PCR test both were negative.  Then, for some reason I can't fathom, he decided to take the monoclonal treatment.  He immediately fell ill afterward and subsequently tested positive and is now an official covid case.


Strange. Was he showing any symptoms?

The problem with tests and monoclonal antibodies is that the virus has mutated quite a bit. Do they even work for the latest variant?

The monoclonal antibodies and vaccines would all have to be updated to target the latest variant. And even with that, the vaccines have never been particularly effective. They have always been leaky, and rapidly drive the virus to mutate to get around them. It's like giving someone with a bacterial infection just a little bit of antibiotics.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> @Anti Federalist can you contact him to see if he is still alive?





> I tried calling him a few times and got no response.





> ...
>  @Danke I hope you are okay please call someone if you can.





> Hopefully Danke is ok.





> Yes, it's not normal for Danke to be gone this long.


"Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."

----------


## devil21

> Strange. Was he showing any symptoms?


No, not prior to the monoclonal but then developed mildish covid symptoms such as loss of smell and taste after it.




> The problem with tests and monoclonal antibodies is that the virus has mutated quite a bit. Do they even work for the latest variant?


That presupposes any kind of test specifically for any alleged "new variant" even exists.  Of course, everyone knows by now that I'm still highly unconvinced that there ever was or is any wild covid outbreak.  I've experienced effects from being around spike shedding shot takers though.




> The monoclonal antibodies and vaccines would all have to be updated to target the latest variant. And even with that, the vaccines have never been particularly effective. They have always been leaky, and rapidly drive the virus to mutate to get around them. It's like giving someone with a bacterial infection just a little bit of antibiotics.


They've been very effective at filling a lot of bank accounts and injuring or killing a lot of people.  Not much else though.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Strange. Was he showing any symptoms?
> 
> The problem with tests and monoclonal antibodies is that the virus has mutated quite a bit. Do they even work for the latest variant?
> 
> The monoclonal antibodies and vaccines would all have to be updated to target the latest variant. And even with that, the vaccines have never been particularly effective. They have always been leaky, and rapidly drive the virus to mutate to get around them. It's like giving someone with a bacterial infection just a little bit of antibiotics.


Antibody Dependent Enhancement?

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sorry to hear that.  I finally had to get a jab or be terminated.  I chose J&J as it is only one jab and not a mRNA, more of a traditional vaccine.  Although risks of blood clotting


United Airlines plans to let workers who declined to get a COVID-19 vaccine return to work, according to a missive obtained by The Epoch Times.

Unvaccinated employees can return to their positions on March 28, according to the memorandum, which was sent to workers on Thursday morning.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/u...ne-return-work

----------


## PAF

> United Airlines plans to let workers who declined to get a COVID-19 vaccine return to work, according to a missive obtained by The Epoch Times.
> 
> Unvaccinated employees can return to their positions on March 28, according to the memorandum, which was sent to workers on Thursday morning.
> 
> More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/u...ne-return-work


Whoa! Huge big win! AFTER 97% of the employees have been vax’d!

Good grief.

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