# News & Current Events > Individual Rights Violations: Case Studies >  Dallas Cop Goes Home and Enters Wrong Apartment , Shoots and Kills Occupant

## SeanTX

I'll bet his guy thought he was safe living one block from PD HQ ; probably never imagined he'd be murdered by a cop neighbor. The article says she was unhurt, of course that's what's really important here. 

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Da...492675981.html




> A Dallas police officer shot and killed a man after entering an apartment unit she believed was her own, police said.
> 
> The shooting happened at the South Side Flats before 10 p.m., about one block from the Dallas Police Department Headquarters.
> 
> In a news conference early Friday morning, Dallas Sgt. Warren Mitchell said* the officer was heading home after working a full shift when she walked into an apartment unit she believed was her own.*
> 
> After entering the unit, she was confronted by a 26-year-old man, identified by the medical examiner's office as Botham Shem Jean. At some point, the officer fired her weapon, hitting him, police said.
> 
> Officers responded to the scene and began to treat the victim, Mitchell said. He was transported to a hospital where he was later pronounced deceased.
> ...

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## Schifference

If the police cannot even determine where they live, how can they possibly know where suspects reside?

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## Schifference

This officer will need emotional support after such a tragic incident.

I would recommend a couple of years paid time off followed by a promotion.

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## SeanTX

> This officer will need emotional support after such a tragic incident.
> 
> I would recommend a couple of years paid time off followed by a promotion.


I suppose some sort of PTSD-disability claim might be possible. Plenty of paid administrative leave first, maybe a return to duty after some "re-training." 

Meanwhile, the taxpayers will have to pay out big $$$ to the family for her **** up (as they should, since they refuse to hold these glorified code enforcers accountable).

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## Origanalist

Hey, it could happen to anybody. Let's not rush to judgement here.

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## Schifference

Regardless of the circumstances, the SCOTUS should take this up and determine that whenever a duly sworn police officer enters any area, all mundanes should immediately assume a prone position to insure safety. Officer acted reasonably for any person that thought they came home to an intruder in their home.

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## tod evans

How in the hell does anyone, even an ignorant cop, not recognize their apartment from somebody elses?

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## SeanTX

I just saw a pic of the murdered young man, he is black, so this may not blow over as easily as it would otherwise. Of course, it doesn't mean there will be justice, but it's a bit more likely -- a lot of it will depend upon whether or not the cop is white.

edit: just saw he's from St. Lucia -- not a local, so less likely there will be much outrage

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## Danke

> How in the hell does anyone, even an ignorant cop, not recognize their apartment from somebody elses?


Drunk?

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## specsaregood

> The officer involved in the shooting was not hurt. She will be placed on administrative leave, pending the outcome of the investigation, Mitchell said.


Anybody else would be in jail hoping to get bonded out.

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## fisharmor

> Anybody else would be in jail hoping to get bonded out.


Anybody else would either get denied bail or have it set somewhere at 7 figures.

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## juleswin

> How in the hell does anyone, even an ignorant cop, not recognize their apartment from somebody elses?


PTSD, stress, drug intoxication .. ... and I won't be surprised if this happens to more non cops.

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## SeanTX

And a mundane would have his/her name published immediately -- no "secret police" BS

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## Schifference

The ordinary life of a mundane cannot be compared to the life of a police officer. Police officers have constant stress due to constant concern over safety. Their lives are on the line every moment of each day whether on or off duty. Special considerations are in order.

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## tod evans

> PTSD, stress, drug intoxication .. ... and I won't be surprised if this happens to more non cops.


If it's that difficult for people in the concrete jungle to identify which box they're paying for maybe they'd be smart to reevaluate their choices in life.

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## Brian4Liberty

> How in the hell does anyone, even an ignorant cop, not recognize their apartment from somebody elses?


Stack a prole units all look the same. Besides, the minute she walked into the unit and saw the guy, she had tunnel vision, and saw nothing but him until she properly terminated him.

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## Bern

I'm guessing the victim did not keep his front door locked.  Hate to speak ill of the dead, but, what an idiot!

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## specsaregood

> I'm guessing the victim did not keep his front door locked.  Hate to speak ill of the dead, but, what an idiot!


Yeah, I thought the same thing and was going to make sure DW reads the article as she has on multiple occasions implied I was nuts because I insist on always locking the door even when we are home.

Course, her being a cop, this is not for sure.  Maybe she had a master key or he actually opened the door for her.  Its not like we can trust her story.

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## TheTexan

> The officer involved in the shooting was not hurt.


Close call. This brave Officer almost didn't make it back home that day.

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## CCTelander

Protected and served by another hero in blue.

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## TheTexan

The occupant I'm guessing was probably very rude to the Officer who entered his home.  He basically did this to himself.

Maybe if he had better respect for authority he'd still be alive.

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## Bern

A lot of things about the news report (about the officer's story) doesn't make much sense.

Does the officer lock her own apartment when she isn't home?  If so, did she try to unlock the victim's door with her key?

I think it's far more likely that she knew the victim and her stopping at his apartment after work wasn't an accident.  What prompted her to shoot him could be any number of things - jealous/jilted lover, drug deal, etc.

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## EBounding

Small price to pay so we can stay safe.

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## jllundqu

Again the simple test of "What would happen to us if we did the same thing?" should be applied.

Manslaughter
Negligent Homicide 
Breaking and Entering

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## SeanTX

It looks like she didn't even enter the apt , apparently the occupant heard her trying to open the door, he opened it, and then got shot.  Maybe he looked through the keyhole and saw a police officer there and thought it was safe to open the door.

This reminds me of that case a few years back where the female cop shot a teenage boy who opened the door holding a Wii controller. Nothing happened to her, and I think she's still protecting  and serving in that same town.

Nothing will happen to this **** either , more than likely. Just another tragic series of events that led to an "accidental" death-by-cop. 

https://www.facebook.com/steve.eagar.7/




> Dallas Police tell me the officer didn’t “walk into” the wrong apartment, she was on the WRONG FLOOR. 
> *She was continuing to try her key (which wasn’t working) on what she thought was her apartment, when the door was pulled open from the inside by the person who lived there. I am told the shooting happened in the doorway*.

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## Bern

So... some things I've read:


> ...
> According to the relative, the police officers key was found in the lock of the door of the apartment belonging to the deceased, after she tried unsuccessfully to open it.
> 
> The family member expressed the view that the officer involved in the shooting, who lived in an apartment on another floor of the complex,  had to have been drunk.


https://stluciatimes.com/2018/09/07/...ong-apartment/

Hearsay:

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## Bern

> Editor's Note: A previous version of this story included an account of events told by a Dallas police source. Due to conflicting reports of the incident from various sources, we've removed that account from the story.


https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/nati...492675981.html

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## kcchiefs6465

> The "door was ajar" thing sounds like something the cop made up. That sounds a lot better than "he opened the door and startled me, so I shot him." Though of course the blood trail will reveal where he was positioned when he was shot.
> 
> Supposedly the lights were out and the man was in his underwear -- nobody in an apartment would get ready for bed without making sure the door was at least closed -- or it seems highly unlikely anyway. 
> 
> Since it was an electronic lock hopefully it might reveal something (I've read some models keep logs of some things).


Point is, a door left ajar or even open is not an invitation for trespassers to enter the property.

As some cop apologists have hinted that this guy at the least invited his summary execution because of this fact, it is worth noting that that is a sickening response to a very incredible story.

Cop goes to wrong apartment. Cop murders the occupant of said property. It's quite simple, really.

And to respond to the story of well she was tired and worked a 14 hour shift. So the hell what? I sleep 14 hours. 20 hours _begins_ to drag. I've lived in apartments with a thousand units. It's simply inexcusable.

Not to mention a couple days with a PBA lawyer is quite the privilege.

See if it was me, I could imagine handcuffs being too tight, a TB shot, being put in a cage, and being offered a three minute phone call a few hours later. Then a couple days later I would be dragged to court for arraignment, you know, to face a murder charge. They'd graciously give me a bumbling fool of an attorney who grew up with the prosecutor. Bond would graciously be set at upwards of $1,000,000. The prosecutor would come and say they would not continue seeking life imprisonment and reduce the charge to voluntary manslaughter-- so I can serve about 17 maybe 20 years if I accept the plea deal and not take it to trial. I'd probably accept and the prosecutor and public defender would have beers after a long day at the office.

Then again, I don't soak up $54 an hour publicly afforded overtime working 14 hours days so I don't have the privilege of a legal team and presumption of innocence. And as well, I'm not such a $#@!ing moron that I could go to the wrong apartment and then summarily execute the occupant.

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## kcchiefs6465

> https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/nati...492675981.html


So you include the editor's note that they've removed this narrative (your entire screenshot) from the unnamed (probably PBA) source as there are conflicting reports between said unnamed source and another unnamed source (probably someone who is closer to the investigation) yet you have left it up.

So it goes: First, an unlocked door justified his summary execution or at least, he was stupid for leaving his door unlocked (nothing towards the seemingly braindead who executed a man at an apartment she thought was her own). Then it went to the door was slightly ajar so that is what justified his summary execution and he had some implied responsibility in his own summary execution (again nothing towards the person who went to the wrong apartment and summarily executed the occupant). Then it went to the PBA narrative (which excuses nothing and relieves her of no responsibility for her actions, I'd add) to seemingly attempt to excuse what happened. Even after the local news ran a retraction because the conflict of interests/stories was so glaring. Sad!

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## Bern

@kcchief - I think officer Guyger should be indicted and tried for murder.  I think she made a mistake in going to Jean's apartment.  I think she was way too quick to pull her weapon and shoot.  It's not justified and she should face the consequences.

There are also a lot of conflicting stories about the "facts".  Affidavit claims she shot Jean inside the apartment (ie. across the room).  Other accounts say Jean opened the door and she shot him at the door.  I'm interested to know where the body was actually found (at the door or across the room).

I didn't see the need to earlier exclaim the officers stupidity.  It's self evident.  But thanks so much for contributing something of value in furthering any understanding of the story/issue instead of just attacking an RPF member that's actually trying to post relevant details.  You're an internet star!

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## kcchiefs6465

> @kcchief - I think officer Guyger should be indicted and tried for murder.  I think she made a mistake in going to Jean's apartment.  I think she was way too quick to pull her weapon and shoot.  It's not justified and she should face the consequences.
> 
> There are also a lot of conflicting stories about the "facts".  Affidavit claims she shot Jean inside the apartment (ie. across the room).  Other accounts say Jean opened the door and she shot him at the door.  I'm interested to know where the body was actually found (at the door or across the room).
> 
> I didn't see the need to earlier exclaim the officers stupidity.  It's self evident.  But thanks so much for contributing something of value in furthering any understanding of the story/issue instead of just attacking an RPF member that's actually trying to post relevant details.  You're an internet star!


Thank you as well for posting the PBA account of what happened. Now we have all the facts.

Since you are apparently in Texas, maybe you won't be summarily executed once this half wit is acquitted (in some small part due to your parroting of PBA talking points... which again, even NBC had to write a retraction).

Any other relevant facts of this case? Maybe she previously saved puppies from drowning? Church goer? I want to make sure all of the facts are out there.

By the way, you were 'attacked' for implying that this person brought it upon themselves (and for parroting PBA accounts).




> I'm guessing the victim did not keep his front door locked.  Hate to speak ill of the dead, but, what an idiot!


What a stupid thing to say.

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## TheTexan

Whatever happened or didn't happen, let's at least all be glad that the Officer is OK.  This could have gone a lot worse.

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## Bern

> ...
> By the way, you were 'attacked' for implying that this person brought it upon themselves ...


That's like, your opinion, man.  I never implied that Jean bore any responsibility for officer Guyger's action.  I merely made a general comment about anyone not closing or locking their doors in this day and age is being an idiot.  You can feel free to disagree.  You can feel free to keep your doors unlocked day and night too, since you have such strong convictions about the subject.




> ... (and for parroting PBA accounts).


What the $#@! is a PBA?  I have no idea what you are talking about here, but that's par for the course with a lot of the conspiracy bull$#@! that happens around here.  Boogeymen around every $#@!ing corner.  So tiring.  Ad hominems are weak sauce.

You jumped to a misguided conclusion about my opinion on officer Guyger and are doubling down on stupidity in attacking me.  You made a mistake and you won't own it.  Much like officer Guyger and the thin blue line that is trying to protect her.  $#@! off.

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## kcchiefs6465

> That's like, your opinion, man.  I never implied that Jean bore any responsibility for officer Guyger's action.  I merely made a general comment about anyone not closing or locking their doors in this day and age is being an idiot.  You can feel free to disagree.  You can feel free to keep your doors unlocked day and night too, since you have such strong convictions about the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> What the $#@! is a PBA?  I have no idea what you are talking about here, but that's par for the course with a lot of the conspiracy bull$#@! that happens around here.  Boogeymen around every $#@!ing corner.  So tiring.  Ad hominems are weak sauce.
> 
> You jumped to a misguided conclusion about my opinion on officer Guyger and are doubling down on stupidity in attacking me.  You made a mistake and you won't own it.  Much like officer Guyger and the thin blue line that is trying to protect her.  $#@! off.


Of course you have no idea of what I am talking about. That is why you parrot their bull$#@!. NBC found out what I was talking about. That is why they issued a retraction.

PBA is Police Benevolence Association... as in, her legal team.

To say that the man is an idiot for not locking his doors is to imply that had he locked his doors he might still be alive. It is also to imply that you have certain ideas of what transpired before his death and that the sole responsibility for his death is not on the hands of the murderer.

Ad hominems, yawn.... let me triple down. YOU are the idiot for posting some bull$#@! about unlocked doors.

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## jmdrake

> How in the hell does anyone, even an ignorant cop, not recognize their apartment from somebody elses?


Because...

_Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops_
https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-...story?id=95836

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## jmdrake

> Drunk?


Friends don't let friends drink and cop.

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## jmdrake

> It looks like she didn't even enter the apt , apparently the occupant heard her trying to open the door, he opened it, and then got shot.  Maybe he looked through the keyhole and saw a police officer there and thought it was safe to open the door.
> 
> This reminds me of that case a few years back where the female cop shot a teenage boy who opened the door holding a Wii controller. Nothing happened to her, and I think she's still protecting  and serving in that same town.
> 
> Nothing will happen to this **** either , more than likely. Just another tragic series of events that led to an "accidental" death-by-cop. 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/steve.eagar.7/


I remember the kid shot with the Wii controller.  He was white.  White lives don't matter when it comes to police brutality.

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## jmdrake

> I'm guessing the victim did not keep his front door locked.  Hate to speak ill of the dead, but, what an idiot!


You know that violent crime across the U.S. is at an almost 30 year LOW right?  Mmm...maybe you don't.  Okay.  Here ya go.  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...me-in-the-u-s/

So not everyone is walking around thinking "OMG!  I have to have my door locked 24/7 because someone my wander in my house and rob and/or kill me!"  And if someone wants to rob or kill you they can wait around until you open the door, either to go in or to go out, and then rush in and do whatever.  Honestly I worry more about getting killed in a car accident by a distracted driver...and I don't really worry about that.

So yeah...in *this* instance, assuming the report that you heard that the idiot (or murderous) cop was in the house first was correct, then maybe, just maybe, having the door locked would have made a difference.  Then again...maybe not.

And no, this isn't a slight on you.  I just disagree with the premise that everyone who doesn't keep their doors locked even during the daytime when they are at home are necessarily idiots.

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## tod evans

> I just disagree with the premise that everyone who doesn't keep their doors locked even during the daytime when they are at home are necessarily idiots.


Guess I'm one of those idiots my doors haven't been locked for decades...

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## pcosmar

> Guess I'm one of those idiots my doors haven't been locked for decades...


And what happened to her Keys hanging in the door..?

and several reports of her banging on the door and shouting?

and his "Failure To Comply".

This story keeps getting more bizarre,,, and they very reluctantly charged her with the minimum they possibly can,,

and the Boot Lickers are rimming a$$holes on this one.

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## Bern

Jean's family lawyer starting to leak some details that have not been reported previously:




> Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was described as a "security guard" in a dispatch call to firefighters in the moments after she shot Bothem Jean in his own apartment even though she was in full police uniform.
> 
> That revelation, which can be heard in the above video, may explain the noise complaints that came from Guyger's apartment about Jean's apartment above, including a complaint made on the day of the shooting, a detail brought to light Monday by an attorney for the victim's family.
> 
> And it may also explain the contentious exchange overheard by two sisters who live in a nearby apartment at the time of the shooting.
> 
> "Let me in, let me in," demanded a female voice while pounding on a door, followed by the sounds of gunshots.
> 
> "Oh my God, why did you do that?" a man's voice then said, probably Jean's final words.
> ...


More:  https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/court...kWauqbTLbUNeQ/

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## Brian4Liberty

> Jean's family lawyer starting to leak some details that have not been reported previously:
> 
> More:  https://newsmaven.io/pinacnews/court...kWauqbTLbUNeQ/


Interesting. We now have a new motive. Noisy neighbor. He lived directly above her.

Electronic keys? Those things have a tendency to be glitchy.




> Videos also surfaced showing residents from that complex opening doors with fob keys, which turn green or red depending on whether they are the right key or not, similar to a hotel room card key, so there was no need for her to struggle with the door because she would have immediately known she was at the wrong door.

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## jmdrake

> Jean's family lawyer starting to leak some details that have not been reported previously:
> 
> _And it may also explain the contentious exchange overheard by two sisters who live in a nearby apartment at the time of the shooting.
> 
> "Let me in, let me in," demanded a female voice while pounding on a door, followed by the sounds of gunshots.
> 
> "Oh my God, why did you do that?" a man's voice then said, probably Jean's final words.
> 
> And it would also explain why police have issued so many versions of the story, none of them adding up or making sense, all of them contradicting each other, blaming Jean in one way or another for his death.
> ...


Why would she say "Let me in" if she thought they were at her own apartment?  And...this pretty much proves the door was locked.

Of course the only reason she is being charged is because she was off duty.  Had she been on duty this would have automatically been classified a justifiable shooting.  I wonder how much a bullet proof door costs?

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## Origanalist

*Why Did Dallas Police Search a Man's Home for 'Narcotics' After One of Their Own Killed Him?*

Yet more questions have emerged about the death of Botham Jean, a Dallas man shot in his own home by an off-duty police officer.

Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, who lived in the apartment directly below Jean's, says she mistook his residence for her own. According to an arrest affidavit for Guyger, she returned from a shift Thursday night and attempted to enter Jean's apartment using her "unique door key." Since the door was already ajar, it "fully opened under the force of the key insertion," the affidavit says. She then claims to have encountered Jean, believed him to be a burglar, and shot him twice after he ignored her "verbal commands." Jean was later declared dead at a nearby hospital.

Now KXAS reports that the day after the shooting, a Dallas Police Department investigator obtained a warrant to search Jean's apartment. The warrant, signed by 292nd District Court Judge Brandon Birmingham, says the police intended to look for "any contraband, such as narcotics," that could "constitute[e] evidence of a criminal offense."

The warrant seems to suggest police had reason to believe some sort of illegal substance was present at Jean's residence. When asked whether such probable cause existed, a Dallas police spokesperson referred Reason to the Texas Rangers, who took over the investigation soon after the shooting. A Texas Rangers spokesperson, in turn, referred Reason to the Dallas County District Attorney's Office.

A spokesperson for the district attorney said the search warrant was "fairly standard" for such a high-profile case, but added that "no specifics about the case will be released at this time to maintain the integrity of the case."

So it remains unclear why the warrant referenced narcotics. According to Houston-based criminal defense attorney Mark Bennett, there doesn't appear to be any legitimate legal reason for police to include that language. But there could be a practical one. "They want to smear the guy," he speculates. "He no longer has reason to complain about the search of his place, because he's dead," he adds.

On the other hand, Clark Neily, the Cato Institute's vice president for criminal justice, says it's "not at all uncommon...to have a standard, boilerplate search warrant." He adds that search warrants will often refer to what police "expect to find based on the particular incident," as well as "a bunch of other stuff...on the off chance that they happen to find something that might be useful to them." In this case, Neily notes, it makes sense police would expect to find shell casings or blood at the scene of the shooting. And the warrant refers to those too.

Why were they allowed to search Jean's residence for narcotics as well? Neily says it has to do with "varying levels of oversight from judges." In this case, "it seems pretty clear that this judge didn't have any problem with the absence of corroborating...facts that you would expect to see in a search warrant."

Andrew Fleischman, a criminal defense lawyer in Atlanta, thinks it's "unusual" that police obtained a search warrant in the first place. "It's fairly rare to see search warrants...for the place where the crime occurs, because the defendant normally doesn't have standing," he says. He also says it's strange that the warrant relied so heavily on Guyger's account of how things transpired. "It was written as though what she was saying was the truth," Fleischman says.

Guyger's account in the search warrant seems to differ from her story in the arrest affidavit. According to the warrant, Jean "confronted" Guyger "at the door" while she was trying to get into the apartment. The arrest affidavit, though, says Guyger was able to open the door and then saw Jean "across the room."

According to Neily, something is off. "This looks to me like a witness trying desperately to conform her story to extrinsic facts as they come to light," he says.

Bennett put it bluntly: "This is about as bad as a police shooting gets."

https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/12/frfrfr

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## specsaregood

> *Why Did Dallas Police Search a Man's Home for 'Narcotics' After One of Their Own Killed Him?*


Was it a "search" or an excuse to get access and plant a weapon?

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## Origanalist

> Was it a "search" or an excuse to get access and plant a weapon?


Both probably. This whole thing is so blatantly corrupted it's ridiculous.

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## sam1952

> Was it a "search" or an excuse to get access and plant a weapon?


Maybe but her verbal commands don’t mention “drop the weapon” maybe they will later...
What’s funny to me is what does it matter if he had narcotics or any contraband? That’s irrelevant to what happened.

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## euphemia

Anyone bother to look up anything about the victim?

Link

Another Link

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## Origanalist

> Anyone bother to look up anything about the victim?
> 
> Link
> 
> Another Link


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6677927

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## SeanTX

> Bennett put it bluntly: "*This is about as bad as a police shooting gets*."
> 
> https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/12/frfrfr


According to the cops on a gun forum I lurk on, it wasn't a "police shooting" at all, because she was off-duty at the time.  

Meanwhile last night a guy in Dallas last night shot somebody in self-defense, and was immediately arrested. The only reason Amber was arrested was due to negative publicity, and that took three days.

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## SeanTX

Latest I've heard on the case is that they found 10.7 grams of marijuana and a marijuana grinder in the apartment of the deceased. Maybe more dirt on the victim to come once they finish searching his phones and computers.

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## phill4paul

Plant on her doorstep. No welcome mat. No plant on his doorstep. Red welcome mat.  Doors automatically shut and lock. She's full of $#@!.

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## Origanalist

> Latest I've heard on the case is that they found 10.7 grams of marijuana and a marijuana grinder in the apartment of the deceased. Maybe more dirt on the victim to come once they finish searching his phones and computers.


I don't see how this, if one were to believe it (and I don't), would have any relevance to this case.

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## Origanalist



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## Danke

We all make mistakes.

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## euphemia

What a mess.

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## pcosmar

> I don't see how this, if one were to believe it (and I don't), would have any relevance to this case.


It's what they do..
it makes them think any atrocity is acceptable..


they do it by common habit.

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## kpitcher

> Guyger's account in the search warrant seems to differ from her story in the arrest affidavit. According to the warrant, Jean "confronted" Guyger "at the door" while she was trying to get into the apartment. The arrest affidavit, though, says Guyger was able to open the door and then saw Jean "across the room."


Isn't there a rule against lying to the cops? Two stories can't both be true.

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## AZJoe



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## kcchiefs6465



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## SeanTX

I read somewhere that some peaceful protesters protesting this shooting were immediately arrested, and held for two days, without even a hearing. 

Whereas she can walk into another person's domicile, kill that person, not be arrested for three days -- and then is released on bond after a bit over an hour in jail (on a Sunday no less). 

No, there is no special treatment for law officers, none at all.

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## EBounding



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## PursuePeace

Just some obversations from what I saw of the trial:

How did she become a police officer?
She didn't even remember her training, she panicked, she didn't follow procedure, she had virtually no situational awareness, didn't even notice the bright red rug in front of the door that wasn't hers, she didn't perform CPR on him, she left him, and all she could say on the phone to 911 was  "I thought it was my apartment" about what, 20 times she said that? How about asking for help on how to save the man she just shot?? How about "walk me through CPR!!"  

She cried on the stand, and it all seemed to be a show. She wasn't crying for the man she killed, she was crying for herself (just my opinion, could be wrong). Funny how she didn't have one moment of tearing up when it wasn't her lawyers questioning her, about the exact same things. If it affected you that much, you would have the same type of reaction when talking about it. At least a similar reaction.  

I don't care about her affair. I don't care about her social media. None of that matters.
And lastly, that they're making this a racial thing is just ridiculous. It had nothing to do with race.

Edited to add: I think if she had done more to help the man, I think the jury would have come back with a lesser charge. The part that stuck out for me was the fact that she just didn't seem to know what to do after the fact. And she left him while he was dying. If she had rushed to his side immediately doing CPR and asking 911 for help in doing CPR or what to do to try to save him, etc. Just seems this was a huge factor (at least for me.)

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## sparebulb

I wonder if it was ever mentioned in the trial about how the cops smeared the victim by releasing irrelevant information concerning drugs being found in his apartment.

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## PursuePeace

> I wonder if it was ever mentioned in the trial about how the cops smeared the victim by releasing irrelevant information concerning drugs being found in his apartment.


wow. hadn't heard about that.

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## sparebulb

> wow. hadn't heard about that.





> Lawyers "disgusted" by release of search warrant showing marijuana found in Botham Jean's apartment


https://www.fox4news.com/news/lawyer...eans-apartment

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## PursuePeace

> https://www.fox4news.com/news/lawyer...eans-apartment


That's awful. He's the victim. 




> The inventory return yielded:
> 2 fired cartridge casings
> 1 laptop computer
> 1 black backpack with police equipment and paperwork
> 1 insulated lunch box
> 1 black ballistic vest with "police" markings
> 10.4 grams of marijuana in ziplock bags
> 1 metal marijuana grinder
> 2 RFID keys
> 2 used packages of medical aid


Interesting, so wait, was the marijuana even his or was it Amber Guyger's?

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## Bern

> ...  It's hard to get murder without premeditation. ...


The legal definition of murder in Texas is different from the commonly understood layman's definition.  No premeditation is required.  Just an intentional act.  Aiming a gun and pulling the trigger is an intentional act.  Negligence or mistakes of fact (ie. circumstances) leading up to the act inform whether the act was murder, self defense, etc.




> Minimum sentencing???? Any bets?


Not after the judge allowed her social media activities to be shown to the jury.  Haven't you heard?  She's wearing black, so she is already dressed for your funeral.




> Sometimes verdicts represent the facts in the case. Sometimes they represent outside factors...


She admitted on direct (during questions from her own defense lawyers) that she heard someone in the apartment before she opened the door and entered with her gun drawn and she admitted intending to kill the occupant.  She sealed her own fate.  The verdict was correct and represented the facts of the case.

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## kcchiefs6465



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## kcchiefs6465

> You know, honestly that thing with the judge giving her a hug and all that, I don't think it was because she was a cop.
> I believe it was because the judge went over and talked to Botham's family and after talking to them she went in the back and brought out a bible for Amber and gave her verses to study. I think it was the actions of Botham's brother that kind of set all of that into motion. Kind of a "Holy Spirit moment" so to speak. 
> 
> I know some or most here will disagree with me, but that's just what it seems like to me.
> and I really don't think I'm wrong.


I believe the father wants to one day be friends with the murderer as well.

ETA: Maybe every anniversary of his death they will get together in Amber's future apartment and tell stories of when Botham Jean was alive.

Just beautiful.

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## PursuePeace

> I believe the father wants to one day be friends with the murderer as well.
> 
> ETA: Maybe every anniversary of his death they will get together in Amber's future apartment and tell stories of when Botham Jean was alive.
> 
> Just beautiful.


Well we see it from different perspectives, I suppose.
I've personally had to forgive someone who caused the death of a loved one.
It wasn't automatic. It took some time and the person involved was not remorseful as far as I know.
All I know is that God helped me to forgive. It wasn't my doing. It was something bigger than myself.
I'm just acknowledging that power and knowing that it does exist.
That's all.

I don't think that her being a cop had any part in the brother's decision.
Forgiveness heals. And when you don't forgive it just ends up eating away at your very soul.
The brother was wise and what he did will help HIM get through this. And I'm glad for that.

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## kcchiefs6465

> Well we see it from different perspectives, I suppose.
> I've personally had to forgive someone who caused the death of a loved one.
> It wasn't automatic. It took some time and the person involved was not remorseful as far as I know.
> All I know is that God helped me to forgive. It wasn't my doing. It was something bigger than myself.
> I'm just acknowledging that power and knowing that it does exist.
> That's all.
> 
> I don't think that her being a cop had any part in the brother's decision.
> Forgiveness heals. And when you don't forgive it just ends up eating away at your very soul.
> The brother was wise and what he did will help HIM get through this. And I'm glad for that.


Her being a cop probably didn't have anything to do with the forgiveness.

Her being a cop probably didn't have anything to do with the judge coming down to console her.

Objectively though, I can't remember a single case where the judge comes to console the defendant. 

Even in Mandatory Minimum Sentence cases where the judge doesn't agree that they have to sentence a non-violent offender to life in prison based on the letter of the law.

It is rare and might be considered unbecoming (or in some other violation) by the american bar association.

In any case, I feel the case could be made, even in the face of Christian Forgiveness, that when someone enters a domicile and kills the inhabitant, kind gestures and made for T.V. forgiveness really misses the point and blackens the eye of the person who was rather summarily gunned down.

And if that were me, don't spit on my grave through empty posturing and feel good measures.

The main witness in the case recently died, I believe... gunned down.

Is there a judge that is going to console said assailant in the crime? Absent if said assailant is a remorseful police officer, that is.

While it may not be true that that is the only reason they consoled the perpetrator of this crime (her being a police officer), it is clear that everyone else under the spectrum of the sorts of crimes she was accused of did not receive similar treatment. Even by this particular judge.

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## PursuePeace

> Her being a cop probably didn't have anything to do with the forgiveness.
> 
> Her being a cop probably didn't have anything to do with the judge coming down to console her.
> 
> Objectively though, I can't remember a single case where the judge comes to console the defendant. 
> 
> Even in Mandatory Minimum Sentence cases where the judge doesn't agree that they have to sentence a non-violent offender to life in prison based on the letter of the law.
> 
> It is rare and might be considered unbecoming (or in some other violation) by the american bar association.
> ...


This is where I think our perspectives differ. I don't see it as made-for-tv forgiveness.
The brother said he believed Botham would forgive her and that is why he wanted to forgive her to honor his brother.
What the brother did was obviously not an easy thing to do, but it was what he felt was the right thing to do. 

He will no doubt, in the years to come, go through dark periods where that forgiveness shrivels up and weakens and anger starts to swallow it back up. Then the forgiveness will come back and swallow up the anger. It's not a one time "ok all is forgiven, let's be best friends!!" kind of stupid thing. It's an ongoing struggle. 

I believe that's why the brother became so forceful and almost panicky sounding with his "PLEASE?" when he asked to hug her. I think it took a lot of strength in him to say he forgave her and perhaps in that moment, the anger was coming back threatening to take his peace. That's just a guess on my part, but I've been in a somewhat similar circumstance where that road of anger and bitterness is all too welcoming and tempting to go down, and when you go down it, it's just dark and full of misery. Maybe he just didn't want to get pulled down that road anymore. Anger is not bad. It's not bad at all. It can be productive. But up to a certain point and if it goes too far, it can turn into absolute hellish destructiveness if you let it. Maybe he just truly wanted to start down the road of healing and do what he believed his brother would want him and his family to do. I truly feel that the victim was not having his grave spit on, but that he was actually magnified and honored in that moment. 

As far as the judge... I too question that. I really don't think it was appropriate. It was a very odd scene, that's for sure, I agree with you there.

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## kcchiefs6465



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