# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Recommend a 9mm handgun

## Romulus

What do you all like? I prefer a subcompact with hi-cap... is there a good mix between the 2?

I am open to a smaller full size one too.

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## jkr

Springfield xdm
9mm 
19 round capacity

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## fisharmor

My everyday is a GLOCK 26.
It accepts G19 and G17 magazines.  I'm pretty sure that there's an adapter you can slip on a 19 magazine at least that gives you a pinky finger grip.

I had some friends shoot it last week and they were surprised at how smooth it is.
I always put out the disclaimer on these posts that I don't like it.  I wish there were other guns with the GLOCK's combination of features with the same aftermarket support.  I also wish that the GLOCK was more naturally pointing.
And I particularly wish that there was such a thing as a DA/SA with GLOCK's price point and reliability.

But none of these things are reality, so I carry a GLOCK.

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## Confederate

Get a Glock 19 or 26.

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## Todd

> My everyday is a GLOCK 26.
> It accepts G19 and G17 magazines.  
> 
> But none of these things are reality, so I carry a GLOCK.


seconded.

Unless you are going for complete concealablility, I don't think anything beats a Glock.

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## brushfire

> Springfield xdm
> 9mm 
> 19 round capacity


+1

I agree 100%.  20 total in either 3.8 or 4.5 barrel lengths.   If concealability is a factor, the XDs will be coming out soon.  Lastly the XDsc is a little thick but can also conceal well in an IWB.

9mm seems to always be the first to go in an ammo shortage.... Not to discourage the choice, just pointing that fact out.  Despite what seems to be common knowledge, it may be wise to diversify calibers to give you more options during times of shortage.  One gun will never get jealous of another...

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## AFPVet

If you're going for metric calibers (9mm, 10mm), Glocks are probably the best.

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## sam1952

I'll just throw something out there that I like. CZ75 compact/PCR. The PCR model is aluminum alloy. I prefer DA/SA pistols. 15 rounds and can be concealed but still feels great in my hand. Not sure of current prices but am guessing in that $400+ range. 

Truth is there are lots of great pistols out there so get what feels good to you with the options you prefer. Capacity, DA/SA and fit are big for me plus the job it used for.

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## Romulus

Thanks all

What about a Sig P250?

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## AFPVet

> Thanks all
> 
> What about a Sig P250?


Back when Sigs were made in Germany, they were great! I have a German made Sig P220 and love it! The new ones are made in New Hampshire IIRC though. If I had to pick between a Glock and a German made Sig, it would be tough, but a Glock crushes these new American Sigs.

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## kcchiefs6465

And I thought I'd catch some $#@! when I recommended Glock. There's a lot of Glock haters out there. I'm surprised none have shown up yet. Glock 26 if you want subcompact. I'd go with the 19 personally. Not real big, not real small. My hands are too damn big for a subcompact. Then again, I like the .40 S.W. caliber so the Glock 23 would probably be where I settled.

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## Confederate

> And I thought I'd catch some $#@! when I recommended Glock. There's a lot of Glock haters out there. I'm surprised none have shown up yet. Glock 26 if you want subcompact. I'd go with the 19 personally. Not real big, not real small. My hands are too damn big for a subcompact.


There are a lot of Glock haters, but I don't think anyone can come up with a valid reason not to own a Glock that isn't grounded 100% in personal preference and/or bias.





> Then again, I like the .40 S.W. caliber so the Glock 23 would probably be where I settled.


The 19 and 23 are virtually identical. IIRC they are exactly the same external dimensions and the only difference is the calibre.

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## Romulus

I've never fired a glock but held them... the ones I've held were too thick, didn't feel right in my hands. Not sure what model I was holding though...

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## Todd

> Thanks all
> 
> What about a Sig P250?


Sig doesn't have a good reputation about customer service.  From my experience Glock replaces most of thier bad items no questions asked.  With Sig, there are alot of loopholes.  

 But I must admit my  CC is a SIG 232 and I love it.  But it's a 380

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## Confederate

> I've never fired a glock but held them... the ones I've held were too thick, didn't feel right in my hands. Not sure what model I was holding though...


The 10mm and .45 are quite a bit thicker than the 9mm/.40

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## GunnyFreedom

I would love to recommend a 9mm, only it would be a .40S&W

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## XTreat

Sig p938 is getting good reviews  and it is a 1911 model if you prefer that style. It's very small as well if thats what you are looking for.

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## Pericles

1. Weed out pistols that you do not shoot accurately
2. Next criteria is either conceal ability or capacity, depending on your needs

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## AFPVet

> The 10mm and .45 are quite a bit thicker than the 9mm/.40


... and the full size (not the SF) Glock 20 fits my hands perfectly  For others, that's why they have the SF and Gen 4 models... regardless, a .45 or 10mm is going to be a large handgun... it has to be... those rounds are big boys!

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## mortepa

*My Favorite 9mm Pistols:*
For pure dollar *Value* = Taurus PT92 - I think this is the absolute BESTvalue out there!
For *simplicity* & field proven *reliability* = Glock 19/26 - Plus there are a TON of great mods to make it your own.
For *quality* and "show & tell" factor = Sig Sauer P226/P229 - Top of the line, also field proven like the Glock.  Lots of nice custom shop options if money is no object.

*Honorable mentions:*
Springfield XD - I don't like the backstrap safety, but great guns
Kahr - Great pistols, but a little expensive.  Is a good alternative to a Glock perhaps if you like.
S&W/Walther P99 - Just a dang great gun, period.  Alternative to a Glock, Springfield, or Kahr.

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## Tod

> I've never fired a glock but held them... the ones I've held were too thick, didn't feel right in my hands. Not sure what model I was holding though...


My hands are fairly small and I found that the .45 glocks felt too large for my hands.  The 19/23 and 26/27 felt very good though.

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## Confederate

> S&W/Walther P99 - Just a dang great gun, period.


I have one. Great gun, looks very nice, shoots great, very light, good size.

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## pcosmar

Calico M950 9mm "pistol" with 50 rounds magazine.

*That* is a 9mm pistol.


http://world.guns.ru/smg/usa/calico-e.html

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## Aeroneous

> 1. Weed out pistols that you do not shoot accurately
> 2. Next criteria is either conceal ability or capacity, depending on your needs


I second this.  The best gun is the one you are most comfortable with.  There are some exceptions to this... obviously you wouldn't want to buy a garbage pistol even if you shoot accurately with it.

I'm not a Glock hater, but I have yet to fire one that I actually like.  There is no doubt, though, that Glock makes outstanding firearms.  For me it's just a personal preference thing.  Do you have a shop/range near you that lets you rent pistols?  You REALLY need to get out there and shoot a pistol before you buy it, unless you're just buying for collection purposes.  I fired about 15 different pistols before I settled on mine (Ruger SR9c).  Don't get into the "this brand or bust" mentality.  There are plenty of good manufacturers out there, so at least give the obvious choices a shot (and don't forget to shoot the different size variants of each model):

Beretta 92FS
Springfield XD
S&W M&P
Glock (17, 26, etc.)
Ruger (SR9, LC9, etc.)
Kahr K9/MK9
Sig Sauer (P226, P250, etc.)
Walther P99

There are plenty to choose from.  Figure out if you like a wider or narrower grip.  If the former, look at the double stack options, and if the latter look for single stack options.  Beyond that there are some minor things to consider.  Do you prefer an external safety?  Do you care if the pistol has a slide release vs. a slide lock?  Does the pistol need to have ambidextrous features?  Just make sure you fire it before you buy it... that's one tip that usually won't lead you in the wrong direction.

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## Cleaner44

Glock 19. Compact 9mm.

Glock 17 is a bit bigger than I would want to carry and and the 26 is a subcompact which feels too small for me.

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## roho76

I just bought a Glock 27 earlier for my wife to carry. It's the .40 version of the model 26. It's a very nice gun and concealable.

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## osan

> What do you all like? I prefer a subcompact with hi-cap... is there a good mix between the 2?
> 
> I am open to a smaller full size one too.



Go with a .40 Smith.  Hits a LOT harder than 9mm and can be loaded all kinds of hot.

If you're not of the 1911 mind, which is a different one than that of, say, a Glock then I would go with the XD-40 subcompact.  Bought one for my wife and have been carrying it ever since.  Point.  Shoot.  My 1911 mind is rotting away and I regret it but at the moment I no longer have a 1911, though I hope to remedy that sooner than later.

The XD is 10+1 with the short mags and something like 16+1 with the full length mag.

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## osan

> Thanks all
> 
> What about a Sig P250?


SIGs are very good pistols.  I have a 25 year old 220 and it is perhaps the most accurate out-of-the-box .45 combat pistol on the planet and super reliable.

The down-side is cost.  SIGs are $$ compared with so many other pistols such as the XDs.  If you have the cash burning a hole in your pocket a .45 ACP 220 compact is a REALLY nice carry gun, but it is single stack IIRC.

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## Danke

> I would love to recommend a 9mm, only it would be a .40S&W


Ya, I carry a H&K using .40 HP.

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## osan

> shoot a pistol before you buy it, unless you're just buying for collection purposes.  I fired about 15 different pistols before I settled on mine (Ruger SR9c).  Don't get into the "this brand or bust" mentality.  There are plenty of good manufacturers out there, so at least give the obvious choices a shot (and don't forget to shoot the different size variants of each model):
> 
> Beretta 92FS


This is a truly wretched piece of junk.  They are not that well made - the Taurus clones are actually notably superior and that really says something.

The 92 is a re-gussied Walther P38.  It has the same trigger, safety, and locking system.  The worst aspect, though, is the very high bore line resulting in unacceptable muzzle climb.  And Beretta has the nerve to charge lots of $$ for them as well.  I have heard their feed-reliability is questionable as well, but have no first hand experience as I find the pistols revoltingly unpleasant to shoot.  YMMV.  The armed forces seem to really hate them and I have heard there is at least a partial move back to the .45 ACP.

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## muzzled dogg

ruger lc9 is straight if you can get passed the trigger pull

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## youngbuck

> I've never fired a glock but held them... the ones I've held were too thick, didn't feel right in my hands. Not sure what model I was holding though...


My sister didn't like Glocks because the grip was too large/thick for her.  She settled on a Springfield XD subcompact in 9mm.  I shot it yesterday and liked it more than I thought.  I've been a Glock owner for 12 years, so I wouldn't switch to an XD.  But if Glocks didn't exist, I'd probably look at XDs and Smith & Wesson M&Ps.

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## AFPVet

With hot loads, the 9mm is fine. The .40 is basically a short 10mm that uses a 9mm frame which means that they don't last as long as the other calibers. Personally, I prefer the 10mm over the .40 for many reasons; however, the .45 is my go to gun for most applications. If it can't be done with a .45, you need a rifle or a shotgun.

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## Danke

> The .40 is basically a short 10mm that uses a 9mm frame which means that they don't last as long as the other calibers.


Don't last as long?  What is long?

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## AFPVet

> Don't last as long?  What is long?


Well, some of the other Glocks like the G20/G21 can go over 50,000 rounds versus probably around 20,000 for the .40. Granted, that's still a lot though.

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## brushfire

> Don't last as long?  What is long?


Maybe he's thinking of the older Browning HP's.  The alloy frames had fatigue issues, as did their early slides.  I suppose when the 40 first came out, manufacturers discovered their 9mm platform was not always perfect, as is, for .40SW.

That said, I'm fond of many handgun calibers, but the 40SW in particular.  I've got thousands of rounds through 45's, 40's, and 9's - I've had to perform preventative maintenance on a few pistols, but they're all rock'n and rolling.  I wouldn't hesitate to get any modern pistol chambered in 40SW.

All that said, .40sw +P and +P+ ammo may be a different story though, depending on what kind of pistol you have.
I would expect shorter service life, and possible safety issues, again, depending on what the firearm is rated for.

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## Danke

> Well, some of the other Glocks like the G20/G21 can go over 50,000 rounds versus probably around 20,000 for the .40. Granted, that's still a lot though.


wow, I probably only shot 3000 rounds so far from my frequently used pistol.    Will be a long time until I get to 20,000.

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## Aeroneous

> This is a truly wretched piece of junk.  They are not that well made - the Taurus clones are actually notably superior and that really says something.
> 
> The 92 is a re-gussied Walther P38.  It has the same trigger, safety, and locking system.  The worst aspect, though, is the very high bore line resulting in unacceptable muzzle climb.  And Beretta has the nerve to charge lots of $$ for them as well.  I have heard their feed-reliability is questionable as well, but have no first hand experience as I find the pistols revoltingly unpleasant to shoot.  YMMV.  The armed forces seem to really hate them and I have heard there is at least a partial move back to the .45 ACP.


I was just listing some of the more popular 9mm options.  I am not a fan of the 92FS because I'm just not as accurate with it as I am with other pistols.  I do, however, like the feel of the pistol when it shoots.  Everything just feels very smooth and the recoil just feels nice.  Still, accuracy and precision are what count in my book.

When I was enlisted ('06-'12) the DOD was contemplating switching to a .45 platform for the increased stopping power.  The discussion kind of dissolved and they decided to stick with the 9mm.  I know dozens, if not hundreds of military members who have qualified as expert marksmen with the M9 and have heard relatively few complaints.  On the civilian side of things I have yet to find someone who actually likes it.  To each his own, I guess.  The OP should at least fire the 92FS and do their own research to see if it's a potential winner.

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## oyarde

I would not get a 9 , unless you are doing it for ammo reasons. I would go something else.

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## Aeroneous

> I would not get a 9 , unless you are doing it for ammo reasons. I would go something else.


Why not?

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## Kage127

I'm a big fan of Keltec's PF-9.  Life time warranty/made in the USA.  When I bought mine it was about $220 and has great reviews.  I have big hands but still feel comfortable shooting this smaller gun.  It's rated for  +P  loads as long as you don't use them for a bunch of range shooting.  Only holds 7 rounds but as far as concealment goes it easily disappears into a pocket in a pair of dockers.  It has a little kick to it but I don't think its excessive. 

My big concern when getting a gun was that I wanted something that I would carry as close to 100% of the time as legally allowed and I wanted something with more power than a 380.  I knew anything to big or not reliable would discourage me from carrying it.  In my opinion, this gun is the best for its price.   I considered getting a glock 36 (the single stack 45) but went with the keltec in that it was a little(really not by much) smaller/lighter.  I will eventually get the glock 36 as well and advise looking into it if you're looking for a subcompact and concealment is more important than magazine size.

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## oyarde

> Why not?


Probably , every .32 ,.380 ,.40 ,10mm, .45 I have ever shot, shot better than any of the 9's I have. I find most handguns somewhat irritating , if I need it , it is not a good day .

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## osan

> Why not?


Because 9mm is anemic.  It is absolute $#@! as a combat cartridge and not much better as one for self defense.

My father used to go shooting at the armory in Brooklyn and he had many shooting buddies there. One of them owned a liquor store... I think in Bay Ridge IIRC.  One day a big drugged/drunk guy comes in to rob him at knife point.  He takes his HiPower and dumps 15 rounds into the guy and he kept coming.  He had to put _33_ rounds into him before he dropped, the last one in his head as I recall.  He had two full magazines plus one in the snoot and used them all just to take down one guy - ALL center of mass hits - not a single miss.

I would not want to have to trust my life to 9mm Para.  The 40 Smith can be loaded long such that you can get 1560 at the muzzle with 135 gr slugs.  That is incredibly hot ammunition.  You put a 40 Smith barrel/slide onto a 10mm frame and use the 10mm magazines to accommodate the longer rounds.  They will turn your insides into jello.  It is pretty much a one-shot stop in nearly all cases.  A friend shot a deer with this load and there was literally NOTHING solid left in the chest cavity.  Heart and lungs were liquefied. The added bonus is that the 40 Smith brass is actually stronger than 10mm.  This gives you .357 magnum stopping power in a semi.  The other alternative is 38 SuperAuto, another 357 equivalent.

If you're serious about saving your bacon in the event of a worst-case scenario, forget about bull$#@! rounds like 9mm.  You want the most power you can accurately put on target with the largest reserve your hands can comfortably wrap themselves around.

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## oyarde

> Because 9mm is anemic.  It is absolute $#@! as a combat cartridge and not much better as one for self defense.
> 
> My father used to go shooting at the armory in Brooklyn and he had many shooting buddies there. One of them owned a liquor store... I think in Bay Ridge IIRC.  One day a big drugged/drunk guy comes in to rob him at knife point.  He takes his HiPower and dumps 15 rounds into the guy and he kept coming.  He had to put _33_ rounds into him before he dropped, the last one in his head as I recall.  He had two full magazines plus one in the snoot and used them all just to take down one guy - ALL center of mass hits - not a single miss.
> 
> I would not want to have to trust my life to 9mm Para.  The 40 Smith can be loaded long such that you can get 1560 at the muzzle with 135 gr slugs.  That is incredibly hot ammunition.  You put a 40 Smith barrel/slide onto a 10mm frame and use the 10mm magazines to accommodate the longer rounds.  They will turn your insides into jello.  It is pretty much a one-shot stop in nearly all cases.  A friend shot a deer with this load and there was literally NOTHING solid left in the chest cavity.  Heart and lungs were liquefied. The added bonus is that the 40 Smith brass is actually stronger than 10mm.  This gives you .357 magnum stopping power in a semi.  The other alternative is 38 SuperAuto, another 357 equivalent.
> 
> If you're serious about saving your bacon in the event of a worst-case scenario, forget about bull$#@! rounds like 9mm.  You want the most power you can accurately put on target with the largest reserve your hands can comfortably wrap themselves around.


I have dropped a very large Coyote , nearly on me with one round from a.45, I have dropped fox , nearly in my lap with one shell of 12 Ga #4. And other things.

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## Romulus

I never knew 9 was so disliked... do others agree? I have a 380 LCP but need real stopping power. This will not be a conceal. I guess id like a compact size still.. Should I look to a .40 then? I sold my old s@w in. 40 because the trigger pull felt like 100 lbs. I forget the model.

I was thinking 9 for ease of ammo and accuracy .. but stopping power comes first so maybe then it will be a compact 40.

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## Kage127

I think the 9 mm is a very capable cartridge, but to each their own.  If concealment isn't an issue the 40sw is the way to go.  I'm pretty sure the glocks that shoot 9mm and 40sw are the same size gun.  9mm might be easier to find but since police use the 40 sw I don't see the market for it drying up.  

Also if your interested "Boston's Gun Bible" is a very good book for anything gun or gun related.  The guy is a fanatic though so take him with a grain of salt.

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## jtap

Agreed that the .40 bullet is better than the 9. That is just physics and can't be argued with. You also pay for it. It might be worth considering that a bullet off-target is worthless and that practice is essential to good shooting skills and habits and that at about twice the price you will either pay more to practice with .40 cal or you will shoot less. Just something to consider as there is no easy answer and so many variables.

Considering price and reliability my opinion and research would recommend Glock or S&W M&P or Springfield XD.

The only reason to not get a Glock would be if you don't feel comfortable with it or shoot as well with it. They are so reliable. Their grip angle is a bit different than most guns (feels weird to me) and their sights don't line up so well for me (you could change the sights though if you wanted - so it's not as big of a deal as the grip). All 3 of the above can be had in .40 or 9mm with each having a couple different models with different grip/mag size and gun barrel size.

Good info in this thread.

The weird thing about Glocks is that because they are so similar and they change so little you can almost recommend all models and there isn't really a dud in there. S&W makes a lot of guns and I'm in no way endorsing all of them, just the M&P, although you can't go wrong with a revolver either. With Springfield I am only confident of the XD series and have no experience with the other but they don't have too many other guns, mostly 1911s (which can be very reliable and there are tons of options if you wanted to go that way also).

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## Aeroneous

> I never knew 9 was so disliked... do others agree? I have a 380 LCP but need real stopping power. This will not be a conceal. I guess id like a compact size still.. Should I look to a .40 then? I sold my old s@w in. 40 because the trigger pull felt like 100 lbs. I forget the model.
> 
> I was thinking 9 for ease of ammo and accuracy .. but stopping power comes first so maybe then it will be a compact 40.


You'll find quite a few more people who like it than those that don't.  There's a couple personalities in the gun world that you run into quite a bit...

-The "my brand only" guy who can't accept that other manufacturers make solid guns as well
-The "big caliber" guy who thinks that anything below X caliber is just a waste of time

I think there's no question that .45 ACP or .40 S&W is the better round when it comes to stopping power.  This doesn't mean that 9mm is bad, though.  osan's story is pretty unique, and in that situation I would bet that the .45/.40 would both take their fair share of rounds as well.  If the guy took 33 rounds of 9mm, one .45 ACP to the chest wasn't going to do the trick either.  Let's just all be thankful that osan's grandfather was allowed to carry "high capacity" magazines!

As I said before, you need to find what works best for YOU.  You can listen to people fight about calibers, brands, and models all day but it all comes down to what you feel most comfortable with and what you shoot most accurately with.  When I'm helping someone find their first pistol, I typically suggest they narrow down to a caliber they like and then try all the available options in that caliber.  In your case, you might try firing several pistols in each caliber that meet your size requirements.  I personally don't feel much of a recoil difference between 9mm and .40 S&W, but have met several people who find the .40 to be a bit more than they care to handle.  All the stopping power in the world won't matter if you can't place the round on target.

The only way you'll figure out what's best for you is to go to the range

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## ClydeCoulter

And you might look at the RIA 1911A2 .22 TCM, very little recoil, fast back on target, 17 rounds, 2000fps.  It's a full size and has a 9mm barrel/spring so that you can change it out.  The ballistics look very good from what I've seen so far, but I'm looking for better testing (I'll be doing more myself).

Try various handguns at the range, like other said, and see what you like.

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## Acala

> I was thinking 9 for ease of ammo and accuracy .. but stopping power comes first so maybe then it will be a compact 40.


I have 9s and like them.  Sometimes I carry one even when I could carry something bigger.  But if "stopping power comes first", then you don't want a 9.  .40SW is better.  .45 is better still.  Full house 10mm is even better.  If you go with a revolver, .357 is good.  .44 magnum is better.  But nothing that shoots full house 10mm, 357 or .44 magnum that is also compact is going to be pleasant for practice.  And a 9mm that you practice with enough so that you can hit the target is infinitely better than the biggest "stopper" that you rarely shoot for cost of ammo or because it is unpleasant.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Ya, I carry a H&K using .40 HP.


And I carry a Smith & Wesson Tactical .40 on .40S&W

To be honest, I'd have preferred 10mm, but .40S&W won the cartridge war between 10mm and .40S&W, and the second most important thing to consider is ammo availability.

9mm will of course have the same or greater availability than .40S&W (but .40 may eventually surpass 9mm as all federal agencies are moving that way).  Carries more than a .45ACP (less than a 9) and has more punch than a 9 (less than a .45)

The 10mm was really the best of both worlds.  Carried the quantity of rounds as a .40 but as much ballistic energy as a .45ACP.

I go with the .40 because it's not quite as good as the 10mm, but available pretty much everywhere.  About 80% of Federal, State, and Local authorities have gone to the .40 as a primary weapon (I imagine a lot of THEM still use a 9mm for a backup).

The way I see it, you don't need the 3 to 4 extra rounds if each round has 150% of the impact energy, and you are good enough to put them on target.  Same rationale a .45ACP user uses lol I know, but I like having 3 to 4 more rounds than he does, only almost as much power...

I'd rather have a 10mm, but the .40S&W is an order of magnitude more common, and commonality is important.  I actually like 9mm more for a short CQB style carbine rather than a pistol, if I'm honest....

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## GunnyFreedom

> I never knew 9 was so disliked... do others agree? I have a 380 LCP but need real stopping power. This will not be a conceal. I guess id like a compact size still.. Should I look to a .40 then? I sold my old s@w in. 40 because the trigger pull felt like 100 lbs. I forget the model.
> 
> I was thinking 9 for ease of ammo and accuracy .. but stopping power comes first so maybe then it will be a compact 40.


One of the issues I have with my S&W Tactical .40 is that the double-action trigger pull is a PITA, but the single action trigger pull is like butter.  Not an issue except, recessed hammer.  So if I want first-shot accuracy, I have to yank on the trigger a little, grab the hammer as it comes out, and pull it back to manually cock it.

Also, I got a DRMO weapon from the Atlanta Police Department, so following their SOP it doesn't have a proper safety, just a de-cockiong lever, which thing I don't much like.

Other than than, it has been perfect.  The weapon came from the factory with Tritium sights - a feature they only offered active duty police at the time - so I was willing to compromise on the safety in exchange for the factory fitted tritium sights.

Really though, the pistol I wanted was the S&W M&P .40 with a real safety.  It, too, has a recessed hammer though.

No matter what, however, be absolutely sure to fire one before you buy it, because honestly I have NO idea what the single action trigger pull on the M&P is.  A review just said "6.5 pound trigger pull" and said it was an incredible improvement over the Sigma series, so chances are it will be better than what you remember.

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## youngbuck

9mm is just fine, especially if you use high quality hollow points for personal defense.  Ammo is cheaper, more readily available, which can mean more training time.  Lower recoil and high magazine capacity are compatible with a "shoot it till it drops" mentality if you are forced to use it.

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## Romulus

That was the other thing I liked about the Sig p250 compact. No safety. I'm not a fan, if I want safe, I'll keep my finger off the trigger. 
And I can get either a .40 or 9mm. in a 13/15 capacity. It was a good fit for me.

The range I used to go to let users try whatever they had. I might have to make the trip again if they have one where I could try other models too.

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## GunnyFreedom

> That was the other thing I liked about the Sig p250 compact. No safety. I'm not a fan, if I want safe, I'll keep my finger off the trigger. 
> And I can get either a .40 or 9mm. in a 13/15 capacity. It was a good fit for me.
> 
> The range I used to go to let users try whatever they had. I might have to make the trip again if they have one where I could try other models too.


I like to keep a round in the chamber 24/7/365.  I can reflexively thumb off a safety a lot easier and more quickly than I can chamber a round or cock the hammer.  I like having a real safety, because I like to carry in Condition 1.  I can't do that without a safety so I have to carry in Condition 2, which adds a few milliseconds response time that I would rather not add.

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## Romulus

I can understand that. It's all about being familiar with the firearm. I feel better w/o one, along with a proper holster that covers and protects the trigger when I carry and draw.

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## pcosmar

> I like to keep a round in the chamber 24/7/365.  I can reflexively thumb off a safety a lot easier and more quickly than I can chamber a round or cock the hammer.  I like having a real safety, because I like to carry in Condition 1.  I can't do that without a safety so I have to carry in Condition 2, which adds a few milliseconds response time that I would rather not add.


I always liked the 1911 for it's multiple safeties. It is still very fast.
I would take .38 Super over a 9mm.. but prefer .45. (.45 super  )

_I would be happy to own an ElCheapo .32 revolver with nobody giving me $#@! about it_

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## AFPVet

> Because 9mm is anemic.  It is absolute $#@! as a combat cartridge and not much better as one for self defense.
> 
> My father used to go shooting at the armory in Brooklyn and he had many shooting buddies there. One of them owned a liquor store... I think in Bay Ridge IIRC.  One day a big drugged/drunk guy comes in to rob him at knife point.  He takes his HiPower and dumps 15 rounds into the guy and he kept coming.  He had to put _33_ rounds into him before he dropped, the last one in his head as I recall.  He had two full magazines plus one in the snoot and used them all just to take down one guy - ALL center of mass hits - not a single miss.
> 
> I would not want to have to trust my life to 9mm Para.  The 40 Smith can be loaded long such that you can get 1560 at the muzzle with 135 gr slugs.  That is incredibly hot ammunition.  You put a 40 Smith barrel/slide onto a 10mm frame and use the 10mm magazines to accommodate the longer rounds.  They will turn your insides into jello.  It is pretty much a one-shot stop in nearly all cases.  A friend shot a deer with this load and there was literally NOTHING solid left in the chest cavity.  Heart and lungs were liquefied. The added bonus is that the *40 Smith brass is actually stronger than 10mm.*  This gives you .357 magnum stopping power in a semi.  The other alternative is 38 SuperAuto, another 357 equivalent.
> 
> If you're serious about saving your bacon in the event of a worst-case scenario, forget about bull$#@! rounds like 9mm.  You want the most power you can accurately put on target with the largest reserve your hands can comfortably wrap themselves around.


Full powered 10mm brass was originally designed to _safely_ handle 50,000 CUP. SAAMI downloaded it to 37,500 CUP due to some of the problems with the Bren Ten. The .40 S&W has a max pressure rating of 35,000 CUP; whereas, there is MUCH more safety/wiggle room with the full powered 10mm. Also, look at the primers... the .40 uses a small pistol primer and the full powered 10mm uses a large pistol primer! Look up Double Tap or Buffalo Bore... they make REAL 10mm... they way that Norma did it! When you push both cartridges to the limit, the 10mm pulls way ahead... it's like comparing a .308 to a .30-06.

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## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

One more recommendation for a glock 19, subject to the criticisms mentioned here regarding accuracy, feel, etc.  





> I think the 9 mm is a very capable cartridge, but to each their own.



I think +p defense rounds will do.  Availability and capacity help too, imo.

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## oyarde

> I never knew 9 was so disliked... do others agree? I have a 380 LCP but need real stopping power. This will not be a conceal. I guess id like a compact size still.. Should I look to a .40 then? I sold my old s@w in. 40 because the trigger pull felt like 100 lbs. I forget the model.
> 
> I was thinking 9 for ease of ammo and accuracy .. but stopping power comes first so maybe then it will be a compact 40.


 I agree the ammo is a plus.You can probably get a better deal on it than anything.If the budget is no constraint , I would go with the .40 instead.I would want to shoot it before I pay for it , only way to see if you like it.

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## Romulus

After reading about a looong trigger pull for the Sig p250 I'm going to stay away....

Still open to a 9mm or .40, but heavily leaning toward a .40. I'd like to try different models out, but I shot an SR9, and I couldn't miss a thing, I have good memories about that gun that are hard to ignore....

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## mortepa

For those worried about the stopping power of 9mm, why even bother with the 40 or even 45?  Just go all out and get yourself a 44 magnum or 500 S&W???

Seriously, debating a 9mm +p VS a standard 40 SW?  The difference in stopping power is very miniscule.  So again, if you are truly concerned about the "dropability" of one shot, or perhaps the ability to shoot through a wall or two or three, then you really should go 357 at a minimum.

A huge side-benefit of the 9mm is that my wife is not as hesitant to shoot it.

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## jtap

> And you might look at the RIA 1911A2 .22 TCM, very little recoil, fast back on target, 17 rounds, 2000fps.  It's a full size and has a 9mm barrel/spring so that you can change it out.  The ballistics look very good from what I've seen so far, but I'm looking for better testing (I'll be doing more myself).
> 
> Try various handguns at the range, like other said, and see what you like.


Do NOT look at this TCM until I get mine, please  I am already having a hard enough time finding one.

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## Romulus

Well, now that you told me not to......

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## jtap

> Well, now that you told me not to......


That round looks awesome and I love that you can switch barrels and practice with 9mm. Solves all my issues. Been wanting to get a gun in the 1911 form factor for a while now.






In response to your earlier statement "about stopping power comes first", my personal exception would be that if the gun is too big and there will be times that will stop your from even carrying it...any caliber is better than no caliber. In a situation that you can't conceal a bigger caliber gun surely you would take a 9mm +p or maybe even .380 +p over nothing?

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## osan

> For those worried about the stopping power of 9mm, why even bother with the 40 or even 45?  Just go all out and get yourself a 44 magnum or 500 S&W???


44 mag. in a short barrel is actually a good gun.  Recoil is very manageable.  500 Smith is a huge cartridge requiring a very large frame.  Not practical for daily carry.

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## coastie

> I've never fired a glock but held them... the ones I've held were too thick, didn't feel right in my hands. Not sure what model I was holding though...



Probably wouldn't have mattered-none of them fit, or shoot right in my hands. Some guns just aren't for everyone, and Glocks just don't feel right to me at all. For this reason, I don't own one. I don't carry a 9mm everyday, I carry a .45 Springfield XD.  Out of 1000's of rounds, I've only had a couple of failure to feeds, but that was due to ammo issues, and the grip safety on it...a Springfield XD will definitely tell you if your gripping the gun properly, because if you aren't, it wont fire. I love my dad's Spgfld XDm 9mm, it's pretty solid overall.

I recommend finding a gun shop with a range, and one that has a Glock and other models to shoot and see what works best for you, or find/make friends that have one and will let you shoot it.

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## Michael Landon

I like my Springfield XD and would recommend it to anyone looking for a 9mm.

- ML

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## TheTexan

> I like my Springfield XD and would recommend it to anyone looking for a 9mm.
> 
> - ML


If I didn't have a Glock already I would probably get a XD instead.  From what I understand, the two are basically the same thing except the XD has a grip safety.  Which doesn't necessarily do much, but it does make one "feel" safer.

I believe the grip angle is also slightly different, which is personal preference between Glock/XD

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## deadfish

Do you ever watch videos from the hickok45 channel? Lots of videos on all the handguns being discussed in this thread. 

And for any existing hickok45 fans, he talked about being a libertarian in the latest radio show!

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## Danke

> Do you ever watch videos from the hickok45 channel? Lots of videos on all the handguns being discussed in this thread. 
> 
> And for any existing hickok45 fans, he talked about being a libertarian in the latest radio show!


I have a permit, should I carry openly?

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## mad cow

> Do you ever watch videos from the hickok45 channel? Lots of videos on all the handguns being discussed in this thread. 
> 
> And for any existing hickok45 fans, he talked about being a libertarian in the latest radio show!


Neat!
I have always been a fan of his youtube videos.Glad to hear he is one of us.

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## Romulus

> Do you ever watch videos from the hickok45 channel? Lots of videos on all the handguns being discussed in this thread. 
> 
> And for any existing hickok45 fans, he talked about being a libertarian in the latest radio show!


Thanks for the reminder, I've watched alot of his stuff.

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## jtap

> Do you ever watch videos from the hickok45 channel? Lots of videos on all the handguns being discussed in this thread. 
> 
> And for any existing hickok45 fans, he talked about being a libertarian in the latest radio show!


I have watched many of his vids. He's one of those Glock guys but at least he admits his bias. His videos are pretty useful but 80% are him shooting...which he is very good at. When I watch them I just get jealous of his range setup and property.

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## chudrockz

> I have watched many of his vids. He's one of those Glock guys but at least he admits his bias. His videos are pretty useful but 80% are him shooting...which he is very good at. When I watch them I just get jealous of his range setup and property.


He's gotta great setup. I got wind of him searching for g30 videos. That's my choice Glock. He's a little better shot with it than I am, however.

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## Romulus

I was watching his Mini 14 videos when I was in the market, and he was sticking up for the rifle, saying largely to take the claims of 'inaccuracy' with a grain of salt, but then I noticed he couldn't hit squat with it! He was being polite and professional.. but that made up my mind right there to move onto looking at a different rifle.

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## Pericles

> I never knew 9 was so disliked... do others agree? I have a 380 LCP but need real stopping power. This will not be a conceal. I guess id like a compact size still.. Should I look to a .40 then? I sold my old s@w in. 40 because the trigger pull felt like 100 lbs. I forget the model.
> 
> I was thinking 9 for ease of ammo and accuracy .. but stopping power comes first so maybe then it will be a compact 40.


Many military guys don't like the 9 because the military uses FMJ ammo, and effective 9mm hits tend to be with HP rounds. Again, the military experience is that .45 ACP is very effective at putting people on the ground on the first hit, thus the return to that cartridge by the military.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Many military guys don't like the 9 because the military uses FMJ ammo, and effective 9mm hits tend to be with HP rounds. Again, the military experience is that .45 ACP is very effective at putting people on the ground on the first hit, thus the return to that cartridge by the military.


Quite true, and another reason why I like the .40 intermediate.  What happens one day when FMJ is the only ammo you can lay hands on?

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## kcchiefs6465

> Quite true, and another reason why I like the .40 intermediate.  What happens one day when FMJ is the only ammo you can lay hands on?


Dum dums? I understand what you're saying though.

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## jtap

> Quite true, and another reason why I like the .40 intermediate.  What happens one day when FMJ is the only ammo you can lay hands on?


If all we have is access to 9mm FMJ people will build rigs to hollow out the tips and someone will come up with a good one that we will copy or buy.

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