# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Prosperity >  Silver buyers.....silver to hit 125 in 90 days (in summer 2011)

## puppetmaster

First off I like to buy whenever I can and do own silver. I am in the Jewelry business and have direct connections to wholesale silver. I have heard from a reliable source that silver should hit $125/oz in 90 days or less due to a demand issue that has not been made public.
 This is why you see the price increase of almost $10/oz this last thirty days. I don't usually make predictions and I hope I am wrong as this will severely impact my business. I can tell you that there will be a change to another precious metal also because of the coming announcement. Sorry I cannot give you more details about this at this time. 

Just a rumor but I thought I would share.....

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## eduardo89

Good thing I (my family) owns silver mines!

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## Godisnowhere

I think the public is aware of a silver inventory problem if you are searching for the info. That and the weak US dollar due to spend and print is why I continue to buy as much as possible. I am not wealthy but converted savings and 401.k to Silver IRA.

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## Seraphim

I may be a bull on steroids when it comes to silver, but 125$ within 90 days is doubtful...VERY doubtful. I believe that only a collapse of a major currency would elicit such a huge move. YES, a collapse of a major currency is possible - but unlikely (YET).

Silver will hit 125$ though. Just not that soon (I presume).

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## RileyE104

$125 is actually close to its inflation-adjusted high. 

If I remember right, I read that it didn't take silver that long to reach that high, which was about $50 back then.

So, I don't think this is that crazy of a prediction. 

However, I would like to think it would take longer because a steady climb with a few corrections along the way is less scary.

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## psi2941

yea but the last 30 day the chart looks crazy. the slope is almost undefined

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## squarepusher

125 is conservative.  I think 500 or 1000 may be more realistic

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## CaliforniaMom

It may be true. There's a shop in my nearby mall that sells silver coins. When I decided to finally buy one a couple of weeks ago they said there was at least a 6 week waiting list just to get one silver coin. Silver is pretty much sold out. It seems a good time to buy some, if you can even find it.

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## Bern

> 125 is conservative.  I think 500 or 1000 may be more realistic


In the next 90 days?  I think the Fed (and their proxies) can string things out longer than that.

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## puppetmaster

This rise is not due to the fed or a currency collapse. I know there is high demand also but the demand is rising and will rise very quickly as this news leaks away from the insiders. Again the gain is not based in a collapse of a currency but on a new high demand use.....this is a short term prediction and I beleive my source, but we will have to see.

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## Bern

Inflation and currency fears are what's driving the "investment" demand.

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## erowe1

> First off I like to buy whenever I can and do own silver. I am in the Jewelry business and have direct connections to wholesale silver. I have heard from a reliable source that silver should hit $125/oz in 90 days or less due to a demand issue that has not been made public.
>  This is why you see the price increase of almost $10/oz this last thirty days. I don't usually make predictions and I hope I am wrong as this will severely impact my business. I can tell you that there will be a change to another precious metal also because of the coming announcement. Sorry I cannot give you more details about this at this time. 
> 
> Just a rumor but I thought I would share.....


Let me guess. This reliable source wants to sell some silver.

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## zerosdontcount

my thoughts exactly

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## The Dark Knight

I never say never but this "source" is probably full of BS. Silver will not be 125 this summer unless there is a collapse. I do think a collapse will come if current policy is maintained but unlikely it would come as soon as this summer.

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## Michael P

Maybe if the debt ceiling isn't raised and the US starts to default, but that is not going to happen. The price is more likely to hit twenty something then one-hundred and twenty something in the next 90 days. However, I would be okay with either of these scenarios. It depends on what happens when QE2 ends. 

Let them eat ipads!

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## LibForestPaul

Collapse of a currency/collapse of a country...
say Saudi/Libya/Iran?

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## Suzu

> ... only a collapse of a major currency would *illicit* such a huge move.


illicit = adjective
1. not legally permitted or authorized; unlicensed; unlawful.
2. disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons.

elicit = verb 
   to draw or bring out or forth; educe; evoke

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## RileyE104

> yea but the last 30 day the chart looks crazy. the slope is almost undefined


This is a 30 *year* chart...





> This rise is not due to the fed or a currency collapse. I know there is high demand also but the demand is rising and will rise very quickly as this news leaks away from the insiders. Again the gain is not based in a collapse of a currency but on a new high demand use.....this is a short term prediction and I beleive my source, but we will have to see.


I disagree. The FED's QE2 will be dwindling down by the end of summer... So wont the full force of that inflation start kicking in at that time? If it does, then this $125 prediction isn't that far-fetched.

^ I say this because when it started last November they said that it would last until mid-2011. Summer is mid-2011.

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## Seraphim

corrected.




> illicit = adjective
> 1. not legally permitted or authorized; unlicensed; unlawful.
> 2. disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons.
> 
> elicit = verb 
>    to draw or bring out or forth; educe; evoke

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## puppetmaster

> This is a 30 *year* chart...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. The FED's QE2 will be dwindling down by the end of summer... So wont the full force of that inflation start kicking in at that time? If it does, then this $125 prediction isn't that far-fetched.
> 
> ^ I say this because when it started last November they said that it would last until mid-2011. Summer is mid-2011.


No I am saying that the rise I was told is coming has nothing to do with the fed. It is in addition to the Feds policies.
Just saying this is the business I am in and there is a new use for silver that if it hits the news as predicted within 90 days there will be an additional upward force in price.

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## Michael P

> No I am saying that the rise I was told is coming has nothing to do with the fed. It is in addition to the Feds policies.
> Just saying this is the business I am in and there is a new use for silver that if it hits the news as predicted within 90 days there will be an additional upward force in price.


Why can't you be more specific? What business are you in? If this is about the increased medical uses, it is known and it has been at least partially priced in.

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## Dr.3D

> Why can't you be more specific? What business are you in? If this is about the increased medical uses, it is known and it has been at least partially priced in.


Silver has so many uses, it's hard to find each and every one of them.   This could be about the use of silver in superconductors too.

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## libertybrewcity

don't forget that if silver is at 125 then gold will be around 4150 to 4500 dollars per ounce. I don't buy it. I don't believe silver prices are ever strong during the summer months. There is usually a lull around May.

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## showpan

http://silverliberationarmy.wordpress.com/

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## devil21

> don't forget that if silver is at 125 then gold will be around 4150 to 4500 dollars per ounce. I don't buy it. I don't believe silver prices are ever strong during the summer months. There is usually a lull around May.


Not true.  The 16-1 ratio, which would likely be closed to that level by $125 silver, would have gold at $2000/oz.  That seems entirely reasonable.

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## Zippyjuan

Silver is what- $43? And Gold-  $1486? (figures from KITCO)  If silver goes to $125, that is nearly a triple (and probably why that number was chosen as a prediction). If Gold does the same thing, that would be nearly $4500 an ounce. One must be careful about exorbinant predictions from people who sell the very thing they predict will soar in value.  They do have a motive to make such bold claims (their own profits).

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## puppetmaster

> Silver is what- $43? And Gold-  $1486? (figures from KITCO)  If silver goes to $125, that is nearly a triple (and probably why that number was chosen as a prediction). If Gold does the same thing, that would be nearly $4500 an ounce. One must be careful about exorbinant predictions from people who sell the very thing they predict will soar in value.  They do have a motive to make such bold claims (their own profits).


Here is the deal. I buy and sell metals daily for a profit. With the volume that I move I get 99% of spot when I sell. This information that I have will not affect my metals trades a great amount. It will affect my jewelry businesss adversly. My source for the thread topic is someone with whom I have done business with for years. His business does not make more money with higher prices either. I hope he is wrong.

Also if anyone has pm's they want to sell I pay a very fair price. Message me if you want to sell.

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## cubical

If you truly believe this, are you buying big time out of the money calls?

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## WilliamC

Since the price of silver has been manipulated so heavily for so long via the trade in 'paper' silver and since the total amount of the worlds wealth invested in silver is so very small as compared to other investment vehicles I could easily believe that there could be a sudden, rapid price spike in silver that would not be greatly reflected in the price increase in other commidities, even gold. 

So yes, I could see silver going up 5 to 10 fold and most of the worlds populace and markets wouldn't be affected at all. 

For all those thinking it will fall, well the so-called spot price might but good luck finding physical if it does and the premiums will be steep.

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## devil21

The stock market took a dump today on news that everybody already knew was coming.  The dollar only modestly gained.  But PMs didn't flinch and gold is about to hit $1500!  Metals are where to go in case of stock market crash OR hyperinflation.  It's a no-lose bet right now and for the foreseeable future.

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## Seraphim

There is a correlation between the prices of gold and silver. Not causation.

Gold has already run part of it's bullish course and silver is merely cacthing up: see prices relative to nominal all time highs.

If silver goes up three fold to 125$, I surmise that gold would likely move up 20-50% or so, depending on news etc.




> Silver is what- $43? And Gold-  $1486? (figures from KITCO)  If silver goes to $125, that is nearly a triple (and probably why that number was chosen as a prediction). If Gold does the same thing, that would be nearly $4500 an ounce. One must be careful about exorbinant predictions from people who sell the very thing they predict will soar in value.  They do have a motive to make such bold claims (their own profits).

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## Bern

If I'm not mistaken, gold rose while oil fell.  That's an interesting story IMO.

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## puppetmaster

still climbing......guess will see soon enough.

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## devil21

Good lord!  $44 and half at 2:30am!  I bought at $35.35 thinking I should wait for a pullback.  Glad I didn't!  Just wish I could get more at a reasonable price.  This is getting ridiculous.

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## Lord Xar

what do you think about Jim Rogers impression of a possible parabolic move?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ves-Always-Col

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## devil21

> what do you think about Jim Rogers impression of a possible parabolic move?
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ves-Always-Col


Hogwash.  A parabolic move is the correction of silver to it's true free market value at the historical 16-1 ratio.

eta:  I vote we make THIS THREAD the running silver commentary thread.  Let's follow and see if the prediction happens in real time.

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## puppetmaster

I will keep it up to date.  I will eat crow if I am wrong.

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## puppetmaster

interesting trades in silver today.

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## Michael P

So far so good puppet. $45+ and is trading up after hours. I will be shocked if it gets anywhere near 100 this summer but pleasantly shocked. It was also nice to see back to back days that the miners kept pace.

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## westkyle

If only I should have listened and invested in gold and silver.  Since I am a newbie what do you guys recommend for someone new to this stuff.  Where can I buy hard silver or gold?  I'm not a rich man, but it seems the investment will pull off in the end.  I guess I should use the search capabilities of this forum. :P

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## Seraphim

How long are wanting to/willing to hold onto the metals? Goals?




> If only I should have listened and invested in gold and silver.  Since I am a newbie what do you guys recommend for someone new to this stuff.  Where can I buy hard silver or gold?  I'm not a rich man, but it seems the investment will pull off in the end.  I guess I should use the search capabilities of this forum. :P

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## Kelly.

> If only I should have listened and invested in gold and silver.  Since I am a newbie what do you guys recommend for someone new to this stuff.  Where can I buy hard silver or gold?  I'm not a rich man, but it seems the investment will pull off in the end.  I guess I should use the search capabilities of this forum. :P


start here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lp-me-help-you

i have personally used apmex.com and gainsvillecoins.com, both with good results
google both in case i typo'd either of them.

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## devil21

$46!  2:36am.

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## AmericasLastHope

There are rumors going around about a billionaire trying to corner the silver market: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sil...-gain-credence

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## puppetmaster

> There are rumors going around about a billionaire trying to corner the silver market: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sil...-gain-credence


Or a state interest........

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## fatjohn

I'll believe it when it powers through 52

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## Cowlesy

Derivative of that rumor is that it is Carlos Slim of Mexico.

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## forsmant

Silvers nominal high was 65?

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## Seraphim

For about 30 seconds. The daily closing high is 52$.




> Silvers nominal high was 65?

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## cubical

sick, just got another for 32.50.

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## fatjohn

Look, the gold silver ratio is about 30 right now, many are thinking about it going to 10. 

But if that happens it will happen at the time when gold goes to its top in its own major rally to about 1 dow unit. 

There is no way that gold will suddenly pull up in such a fashion that it will meet that target at the time that silver meets its target since silver is clearly going parabolic and needs to maintain that 3% a day move or crash.

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## Lafayette

$46.59  as of 5:30 pm  pst

My silver miners are not making any moves. I'd see 3-10% moves on days like today, but NOTHING for the last week or so.

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## Michael P

> $46.59  as of 5:30 pm  pst
> 
> My silver miners are not making any moves. I'd see 3-10% moves on days like today, but NOTHING for the last week or so.


Silver Bullion doesn't have P/E ratios and EPS etc. Silver has been moving up so fast I think it might take Q1 earnings numbers to reassure investors of the miners potential. Most of the big silver miners report earnings on May 9th.

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## cubical

NEM reported today. Pretty good quarter. They made 1.08 per share which gives them a P/E of 14. Plus they have over 8 bucks in cash per share on their balance sheet. Granted they are a major producer, but it's not bad for a gold miner.

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## westkyle

What do you recommend?  Is it like the stock market, buy low sell high.  Or if the dollar collapses would I hold onto it to use as something that actually has worth.  How far would one coin get me.  I don't have a lot of money, but I'd like some investment advice.

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## Brown Sapper

I just want to thank all of you guys for persuading me for buying silver.  When I got back from Iraq I bought at 10K at 13/oz now at 40.  Now I definately have some cash to throw around this election cycle.  The only problem is going to be how am I going to unload all this silver back into the market?

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## cubical

> I just want to thank all of you guys for persuading me for buying silver.  When I got back from Iraq I bought at 10K at 13/oz now at 40.  Now I definately have some cash to throw around this election cycle.  The only problem is going to be how am I going to unload all this silver back into the market?


You bought $130,000 worth of silver all at once? Brave/smart man. You can sell most at local coin shops, on ebay or here http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/.

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## Dr.3D

> You bought $130,000 worth of silver all at once? Brave/smart man. You can sell most at local coin shops, on ebay or here http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/.


I believe he meant he bought $10,000 worth at $13/ounce.   That would be more like 770 ounces.

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## emr1028

I just bought 6 ounces of silver, the first metals I've ever bought. I wish I'd bought gold 3 years ago when I was telling others to buy it, but I didn't have the cash. Now I see that all the cash I have is going to be even more worthless soon.

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## Seraphim

Welcome to the world of real money.




> I just bought 6 ounces of silver, the first metals I've ever bought. I wish I'd bought gold 3 years ago when I was telling others to buy it, but I didn't have the cash. Now I see that all the cash I have is going to be even more worthless soon.

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## Wolverine302

> What do you recommend?  Is it like the stock market, buy low sell high.  Or if the dollar collapses would I hold onto it to use as something that actually has worth.  How far would one coin get me.  I don't have a lot of money, but I'd like some investment advice.


Keep accumulating physical. Dont worry about price.

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## Michael P

Looks like it didn't move up much on the Holiday.

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## AmericasLastHope

> Looks like it didn't move up much on the Holiday.


According to this it went up a buck: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hol...ver-still-buck

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## cubical

> According to this it went up a buck: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hol...ver-still-buck


It went back down. closed around 46.60.

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## puppetmaster

47.53 on easter sunday at 15:43 PDT

Seems like the info may be leaking.......

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## cubical

> 47.53 on easter sunday at 15:43 PDT
> 
> Seems like the info may be leaking.......


And you say you know this info? Why can't you share it?

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## Michael P

Um, it looks like maybe kitco didn't update from thursday evening until today?

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## Seraphim

Silver may very well go up and down around a dollar a day for a while....most days on the side of going up in price.

This thing will pop off with 10+ dollar days, but not until there is a solid stretch of 1-3+ dollar days.

Don`t forget the volatility and bubbles in national/supernational currencies worldwide and it's key role in the bull market of PM's/sound currencies (and commodities in general).

Silver may end up 300$ in CAD, AUD...And end up 1200$ USD, or 12 trillion....

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## AmericasLastHope

> Um, it looks like maybe kitco didn't update from thursday evening until today?


I don't think so.  Silver just hit 49.72 in Hong Kong.

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## puppetmaster

> And you say you know this info? Why can't you share it?


I did.......but I am not going to post the entire reason as I am buying as fast as I can.
Sorry.......

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## Seraphim

1-3$ days are no longer a hypothetical probability. That portion of the bull market is here and upon us.




> Silver may very well go up and down around a dollar a day for a while....most days on the side of going up in price.
> 
> This thing will pop off with 10+ dollar days, but not until there is a solid stretch of 1-3+ dollar days.
> 
> Don`t forget the volatility and bubbles in national/supernational currencies worldwide and it's key role in the bull market of PM's/sound currencies (and commodities in general).
> 
> Silver may end up 300$ in CAD, AUD...And end up 1200$ USD, or 12 trillion....

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## puppetmaster

bumped so i can find it easier.....

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## cubical

Puppet, you still sticking to your 125 number?

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## zerosdontcount

I think the 125 is pretty accurate, the dollar is losing steam quickly.

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## Michael P

> I think the 125 is pretty accurate, the dollar is losing steam quickly.


yeah, the Dollar is getting smoked... 73.10 as of 10pm.

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## cubical

> I think the 125 is pretty accurate, the dollar is losing steam quickly.


He was predicting 125 within 3 months though.

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## puppetmaster

> Puppet, you still sticking to your 125 number?


 Yea I still think it has legs.

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## Seraphim

http://www.kitcosilver.com/

Most of the price increase is demand driven anyway. Coupled with falling currency - look out .

Just wish I was born 5 years earlier.





> Yea I still think it has legs.

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## Kelly.

> Yea I still think it has legs.


still?

im not trying to call you out, mainly just looking for any updated info [even if unverifiable] 

thanks in advance,

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## Brian4Liberty

It was in a mania stage. This thread is an example.

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## swissaustrian

> It was in a mania stage. This thread is an example.


Yep, my alarm bells rang when slv had higher volume than the biggest s&p500 etf.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Yea I still think it has legs.

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## Michael P

Can we at least hear what the inside info was?

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## Seraphim

Coming to a reality near you:

80-100$ up day for gold

7-10$ up for silver

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## Jordan

> Coming to a reality near you:
> 
> 80-100$ up day for gold
> 
> 7-10$ up for silver


So that's a buy, right here, right now?

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## devil21

> So that's a buy, right here, right now?


And your alternative is?  Put your money where your mouth is. Jordan?

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## LibertyIn08

> And your alternative is?  Put your money where your mouth is. Jordan?


He just made a one day gain on a microcap stock of nearly 50%. I'm sure his portfolio is just fine. (And probably has a better overall return risk-adjusted to boot.)

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## puppetmaster

I have never said it would go striaght up........i stick to my orig post. This last week may in fact help my prediction.

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## Seraphim

Yes.

I am buying some on Monday - going to try to book the price today or early monday morning.

It may go a bit lower - but with this volatility and the way everything is going I think a pop off up to 45-50 is likely sooner then later.




> So that's a buy, right here, right now?

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## Seraphim

http://www.kitcosilver.com/

Look at the miners - they are performing very well today.

I think the time of undervalued precious metals miners is going to see it's correction. They've been undervalued for a while. I don't think that will last much longer.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> http://www.kitcosilver.com/
> 
> Look at the miners - they are performing very well today.
> 
> I think the time of undervalued precious metals miners is going to see it's correction. They've been undervalued for a while. I don't think that will last much longer.


^^^ lmao..wow.. 

It's called buying to cover. Shorts need to close their positions resulting in higher share prices. After a 20%+++ decline in the past week for no real fundamental reason, typically people don't try to milk it by shorting more--so positions get closed.

You can't look to the market for day to day moves and say "omg this one is it." You're looking at mass psychology in action and you're trying to draw valuation conclusions based on it. Traders own the market in the short term and wash it around wherever they want. They don't buy silver or silver miners for anything other than to make money. They don't taste the food they're cooking--they just play hot potato. The recent flush of people from commodities demonstrates there aren't the massive number of long-term holders out there--no matter how much we like to try to convince ourselves. The price action is moved in the short term, by traders, just as it has always been. It's not a bad thing--it provides liquidity and allows lower spreads for people to enter and leave the market, but to draw conclusions based on a day's or a week's or even a month's worth of trading is hardly enough to justify random-ass claims.

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## Seraphim

I didn't draw any conclusions from today's action.

Miners have been undervalued for a while - with the drop in the actual commodity price, as the price moves back higher (likely will) it should make the miners more attractive since the commoditiy itself has so much support. 




> ^^^ lmao..wow.. 
> 
> It's called buying to cover. Shorts need to close their positions resulting in higher share prices. After a 20%+++ decline in the past week for no real fundamental reason, typically people don't try to milk it by shorting more--so positions get closed.
> 
> You can't look to the market for day to day moves and say "omg this one is it." You're looking at mass psychology in action and you're trying to draw valuation conclusions based on it. Traders own the market in the short term and wash it around wherever they want. They don't buy silver or silver miners for anything other than to make money. They don't taste the food they're cooking--they just play hot potato. The recent flush of people from commodities demonstrates there aren't the massive number of long-term holders out there--no matter how much we like to try to convince ourselves. The price action is moved in the short term, by traders, just as it has always been. It's not a bad thing--it provides liquidity and allows lower spreads for people to enter and leave the market, but to draw conclusions based on a day's or a week's or even a month's worth of trading is hardly enough to justify random-ass claims.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> I didn't draw any conclusions from today's action.
> 
> Miners have been undervalued for a while - with the drop in the actual commodity price, as the price moves back higher (likely will) it should make the miners more attractive since the commoditiy itself has so much support.


It's not simply just buying any house in a good neighborhood. The thing miners have going for them are assets that are in favor in the global marketplace and will continue to be for several years to come; however, this just makes a good neighborhood for stocks. What matters now is not simply casting a general glaze over the sector saying that "miners are undervalued". 

The truth is, if the price of gold reaches higher and higher levels, more and more potential mines (deposits) that used to be unprofitable and thus not pursued will end up being pursued. Inefficiencies "cured" simply because gold shot up above a break-even point is a problem for investors. 

Keep an eye out for high operating expenses for miners. We're in an age of necessitating lower and lower costs. The miners that have the highest grade deposits, lowest costs relative to operations, will perform much better than throwing a dart at the board. A lot of mining stocks suck to be honest. 

Again, it's a lot more than just buying in a good neighborhood. Check to see if the house has termites, if the foundation is sinking, etc. etc. There are plenty of bad mining companies and only a handful of ones that are well run and that are "undervalued".

But simply because gold is lower than where you want it to be doesn't mean mining companies are "undervalued".

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## Jordan

> A lot of mining stocks suck to be honest.


Truer words have never been spoken.

I wish mining companies would:

1) Spin off individual mines
2) Convert them to trusts
3) Pay out the cash flow on a monthly basis
4) Not dilute like morons for "the next big find!!!!!!!11111"

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## Seraphim

Stocks are undervalued not because gold is lower then I'd like - I am rather impartial to that to be honest.

They are undervalued IN RELATION TO THE COMMODITY. 

When everything crashed in 2008 the commodities rebounded with a vengeance and have performed VERY well. The miners? They have largely lagged behind and have NOT appreciated with their respective commodities. Even a 20% corretion in the price of the commodities still leaves the miners as a general field lagging behind.

Clearly some companies are trash - and will perform badly or go bankrupt. Where did I infer that taking a dart and throwing it onto a board of miners would mean you'd do well? I didn't even remotely make that claim.

I would be selective about the miners I invest in. VERY SELECTIVE. But there are a number of PM miners over the next 5 years that are going to skyrocket in terms of stock prices - seniors and juniors.




> It's not simply just buying any house in a good neighborhood. The thing miners have going for them are assets that are in favor in the global marketplace and will continue to be for several years to come; however, this just makes a good neighborhood for stocks. What matters now is not simply casting a general glaze over the sector saying that "miners are undervalued". 
> 
> The truth is, if the price of gold reaches higher and higher levels, more and more potential mines (deposits) that used to be unprofitable and thus not pursued will end up being pursued. Inefficiencies "cured" simply because gold shot up above a break-even point is a problem for investors. 
> 
> Keep an eye out for high operating expenses for miners. We're in an age of necessitating lower and lower costs. The miners that have the highest grade deposits, lowest costs relative to operations, will perform much better than throwing a dart at the board. A lot of mining stocks suck to be honest. 
> 
> Again, it's a lot more than just buying in a good neighborhood. Check to see if the house has termites, if the foundation is sinking, etc. etc. There are plenty of bad mining companies and only a handful of ones that are well run and that are "undervalued".
> 
> But simply because gold is lower than where you want it to be doesn't mean mining companies are "undervalued".

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## Jordan

Miners would probably be a good investment for anyone who thinks that there is a killer silver shortage coming down the pipeline.  I mean, when you buy a miner you are buying its future production, too.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Stocks are undervalued not because gold is lower then I'd like - I am rather impartial to that to be honest.
> 
> They are undervalued IN RELATION TO THE COMMODITY. 
> 
> When everything crashed in 2008 the commodities rebounded with a vengeance and have performed VERY well. The miners? They have largely lagged behind and have NOT appreciated with their respective commodities. Even a 20% corretion in the price of the commodities still leaves the miners as a general field lagging behind.
> 
> Clearly some companies are trash - and will perform badly or go bankrupt. Where did I infer that taking a dart and throwing it onto a board of miners would mean you'd do well? I didn't even remotely make that claim.
> 
> I would be selective about the miners I invest in. VERY SELECTIVE. But there are a number of PM miners over the next 5 years that are going to skyrocket in terms of stock prices - seniors and juniors.


Underpriced or undervalued?

----------


## Seraphim

Depends on what you are pricing them with. Certainly undervalued, in general. 





> Underpriced or undervalued?

----------


## Jordan

> And your alternative is?  Put your money where your mouth is. Jordan?


Hey man, I'm just trying to get some input.

I don't know where commodities are going, but I can know when certain commodities, namely oil, is undervalued historically.  I think everyone on these boards knew that oil was undervalued at $30-50 in 2009.  It was obvious.

Silver, on the other hand, is hard to price.  It could be seriously overvalued, or seriously undervalued, but because it does not provide as much utility as oil to modern commerce, it's hard to pinpoint.  I'm turning to the RPF silver experts because I'm happy to admit I don't have a flippin' clue about whether or not silver is undervalued at $35 per ounce. Silver is unique here in that it has a lot of investment interest behind it, and I don't like to invest on the whims of other investors--that's over my head.

I think I've always been pretty good at putting my mouth where my money is.  I was a crazy buyer of silver after the financial crisis, where I averaged down at ~$10 with "paper silver."  I sold that at $16.20, which the chatroom, namely Mark, can attest to.  I'm not sure I've heard the end of it.  I sold a small amount of physical at $27, and aside from open puts which are mostly flat, I don't have much interest in silver at all.  Did I sell too soon?  Well, clearly, but at $16.20 and $27 I just couldn't say that the upside was as good as my potential downside.  No regrets.  Last year, in December, you gave me hell about the collapsing world economy when I made a prediction about consumer spending.  Option play then did really well.

I'm just here for the lols.  Commodities are LOLs to me, hard to understand, and there are only a few times when they become OBVIOUSLY undervalued.  And it is at these moments that I want to buy as much as I can, mostly through "paper" like equities or futures.  There is a price at which everything is undervalued, overvalued, or fairly valued.  If I can't know that it is undervalued, then I don't want it.  I can't know, right now, that silver is undervalued, so I'm not buying.  Likewise, I can't know right now that oil is undervalued, so I haven't added to any positions.

----------


## Seraphim

I'd rep you, but I have given too much rep in the last 24 hours.

IMHO, if you are LONG TERM saver/investor you will be hard pressed to find a better value investment than PHYSICAL silver. With it's role as historical money (direct competition to fiat) and it's INCREDIBLE utility for industry - it should be a solid part of your commodities and cash holdings.

Although there IS a lot of blatant manipulation in silver, namely through naked shorts and fractional reserve silver investment options - it does not mean I am screaming SILVER WILL BE 2000$ WITH 100% certainty!!!

It does have a ton of potential - a lot of that potential is tied to it's re-emergence as global money. I am of the opinion that it will occur - in fact I am of the opinion that the process has already begun and is WELL UNDER WAY. Even short of this occuring, it's utility is off the friggin' charts - it is still a great industrial commodity.

The volatilty of silver has less to do with it being naturally volatile and more to do with it's STAUNCH control grid and major players who benefit IMMENSENLY from lower silver prices.

You mentioned that it's utility is less than oil, true....but oil has MONUMENTAL utility - silver has a mere INCREDIBLE level of utility. 





> Hey man, I'm just trying to get some input.
> 
> I don't know where commodities are going, but I can know when certain commodities, namely oil, is undervalued historically.  I think everyone on these boards knew that oil was undervalued at $30-50 in 2009.  It was obvious.
> 
> Silver, on the other hand, is hard to price.  It could be seriously overvalued, or seriously undervalued, but because it does not provide as much utility as oil to modern commerce, it's hard to pinpoint.  I'm turning to the RPF silver experts because I'm happy to admit I don't have a flippin' clue about whether or not silver is undervalued at $35 per ounce. Silver is unique here in that it has a lot of investment interest behind it, and I don't like to invest on the whims of other investors--that's over my head.
> 
> I think I've always been pretty good at putting my mouth where my money is.  I was a crazy buyer of silver after the financial crisis, where I averaged down at ~$10 with "paper silver."  I sold that at $16.20, which the chatroom, namely Mark, can attest to.  I'm not sure I've heard the end of it.  I sold a small amount of physical at $27, and aside from open puts which are mostly flat, I don't have much interest in silver at all.  Did I sell too soon?  Well, clearly, but at $16.20 and $27 I just couldn't say that the upside was as good as my potential downside.  No regrets.  Last year, in December, you gave me hell about the collapsing world economy when I made a prediction about consumer spending.  Option play then did really well.
> 
> I'm just here for the lols.  Commodities are LOLs to me, hard to understand, and there are only a few times when they become OBVIOUSLY undervalued.  And it is at these moments that I want to buy as much as I can, mostly through "paper" like equities or futures.  There is a price at which everything is undervalued, overvalued, or fairly valued.  If I can't know that it is undervalued, then I don't want it.  I can't know, right now, that silver is undervalued, so I'm not buying.  Likewise, I can't know right now that oil is undervalued, so I haven't added to any positions.

----------


## Seraphim

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...mmodities.html

Just as a point of reference. This is the largest price drop in futures since 1975 - NOT 1980.

This type of drop in a cyclical, fundementally driven bull market is not unprecedented. We all know where prices went in the 5 years after 1975 (which was about 4 years after the bull market started).

 Additionally, this drop has more to do with the massive margin hikes - the big players are using their big teeth. It's short term though - the power of billions of people does and will override a few major players - particularly in respect the the physical metals.

This bull market in commodities and precious metals is a super cycle. This cycle is driven by a MULTI CENTURY cycle. With any long run, there are going to be substantial pull backs and corrections. Some gut wrenching ones at that (particularly in silver! ).

If you are a long term investor, buy the physical and buy the $#@!ing dip!

If you are a trader - hold a core physical position and add when you can - and TRADE THE PAPER ETFS AND FUTURES CONTRACTS.

This bull market will likely last another decade.

----------


## Jordan

> I'd rep you, but I have given too much rep in the last 24 hours.
> 
> IMHO, if you are LONG TERM saver/investor you will be hard pressed to find a better value investment than PHYSICAL silver. With it's role as historical money (direct competition to fiat) and it's INCREDIBLE utility for industry - it should be a solid part of your commodities and cash holdings.
> 
> Although there IS a lot of blatant manipulation in silver, namely through naked shorts and fractional reserve silver investment options - it does not mean I am screaming SILVER WILL BE 2000$ WITH 100% certainty!!!
> 
> It does have a ton of potential - a lot of that potential is tied to it's re-emergence as global money. I am of the opinion that it will occur - in fact I am of the opinion that the process has already begun and is WELL UNDER WAY. Even short of this occuring, it's utility is off the friggin' charts - it is still a great industrial commodity.
> 
> The volatilty of silver has less to do with it being naturally volatile and more to do with it's STAUNCH control grid and major players who benefit IMMENSENLY from lower silver prices.
> ...


It does have a historical role as money.  Typewriters have a historical role as letter-making machines.  But that doesn't mean we'll go back to typewriters in much the same way that we will probably not go back to silver.  When silver was used as money, we as a populace were generally pretty unproductive. In those days, silver played a greater role in the economy, and economic output.  Today, silver is a mere fraction.  To price today's productivity in silver would give silver a MASSIVELY high valuation, you're right.  I'll play along here because we aren't going to agree on economic issues. Silver is now money, you win!

So we go back to silver as money, right? So why, then, won't business assets owned today be converted to this new silver value?  Do you see what I'm saying?

If I can buy a company, or a piece of a company, and know that this company is producing cash for me at a rate of 10-20% per year, then why won't it continue to do the same in a silver economy?  Why would a shift to silver, and away from paper affect the assets that businesses own?  If the company is worth $10 million dollars, why wouldn't that $10 million transfer to an equal value in silver?  This is where the silver argument loses me.  

If silver is remonetized, you might make a killing.  That's a big if, and it's one that I can't even bother to try to quantify.  However, I can know that...say, a health care company, will still produce something the world needs: health services.  So I can know, that over time, I am going to get a return on my investment.  Does that return on investment somehow change if silver takes the place of dollars?  I mean, if you own a business that is profitable in dollars, wouldn't it be equally profitable in silver?  Knowing this, I can't see how I'm benefiting by placing a direct wager on remonetization, when I can instead place a direct wager on the fact that people will still buy stuff whether they use paper, seashells, coins made of monkey $#@!, or gold and silver to buy it.

At the end of the day, I know that businesses are a certainty, but I don't know if a revaluation of silver is.  If I can get good returns certainly, then I don't want to invest in awesome returns maybe.

----------


## Seraphim

*If I can buy a company, or a piece of a company, and know that this company is producing cash for me at a rate of 10-20% per year, then why won't it continue to do the same in a silver economy? Why would a shift to silver, and away from paper affect the assets that businesses own? If the company is worth $10 million dollars, why wouldn't that $10 million transfer to an equal value in silver? This is where the silver argument loses me*. 

It would most definately continue to produce. I never said production will cease if money is anchored (in part) to silver. Ditto for the value of the company - the value of the company would merely be represented in a different way (hard money rather than fiat), the real term value may not change at all - until the market and production dictate that it must change. I never made any of those arguments (perhaps other hard money advocates have - but they'd be wrong).

Also saying that our economy was less productive under hard money standards is disingenuous - humans had no where near the technological assets we now have today. 

Make sure you note that my interest in silver is largely split - I am just as concerned with it's industrial utility as it's function as money. A big part of my argument is that gold/silver ARE ALREADY REMONITIZING. It's less of an IF and more of a BY HOW MUCH question for me.




> It does have a historical role as money.  Typewriters have a historical role as letter-making machines.  But that doesn't mean we'll go back to typewriters in much the same way that we will probably not go back to silver.  When silver was used as money, we as a populace were generally pretty unproductive. In those days, silver played a greater role in the economy, and economic output.  Today, silver is a mere fraction.  To price today's productivity in silver would give silver a MASSIVELY high valuation, you're right.  I'll play along here because we aren't going to agree on economic issues. Silver is now money, you win!
> 
> So we go back to silver as money, right? So why, then, won't business assets owned today be converted to this new silver value?  Do you see what I'm saying?
> 
> If I can buy a company, or a piece of a company, and know that this company is producing cash for me at a rate of 10-20% per year, then why won't it continue to do the same in a silver economy?  Why would a shift to silver, and away from paper affect the assets that businesses own?  If the company is worth $10 million dollars, why wouldn't that $10 million transfer to an equal value in silver?  This is where the silver argument loses me.  
> 
> If silver is remonetized, you might make a killing.  That's a big if, and it's one that I can't even bother to try to quantify.  However, I can know that...say, a health care company, will still produce something the world needs: health services.  So I can know, that over time, I am going to get a return on my investment.  Does that return on investment somehow change if silver takes the place of dollars?  I mean, if you own a business that is profitable in dollars, wouldn't it be equally profitable in silver?  Knowing this, I can't see how I'm benefiting by placing a direct wager on remonetization, when I can instead place a direct wager on the fact that people will still buy stuff whether they use paper, seashells, coins made of monkey $#@!, or gold and silver to buy it.
> 
> At the end of the day, I know that businesses are a certainty, but I don't know if a revaluation of silver is.  If I can get good returns certainly, then I don't want to invest in awesome returns maybe.

----------


## Seraphim

Jordan:

I think you may be thinking that I am arguing for commodities as a better alternative to equities.

I am not. 

My understanding is largely centered around real estate, commodities and the cost of capital (finance). Equities are still to come for my learning. 

Dividend paying companies that produce value for society are EXTREMELY important to own within your portfolio for a variety of reasons. I'm just not in tune with all the details of how investing in them works - commodities on the other hand, I am lot better with.

----------


## libertybrewcity



----------


## thehighwaymanq

You're encouraging buying silver right now, despite it doing so bad?

----------


## Seraphim

Is it a better idea to purchase an asset after 3 months of dramatically rising prices; or buying after prices drop (correct) 30% in a week with very strong remaining fundementals?




> You're encouraging buying silver right now, despite it doing so bad?

----------


## Dr.3D

> You're encouraging buying silver right now, despite it doing so bad?


Silver isn't doing poorly, I'm still up 154%.   If one is looking to buy more, I would advise buying after it has dropped like it just did.  One can get a lot more silver now then they could a week ago, for the same money, that is if there is any silver to buy.

----------


## thehighwaymanq

> Silver isn't doing poorly, I'm still up 154%.   If one is looking to buy more, I would advise buying after it has dropped like it just did.  One can get a lot more silver now then they could a week ago, for the same money, that is if there is any silver to buy.


I have silver and was thinking about purchasing more, and you think this is the best time? Does it look like it will drop lower?

----------


## Dr.3D

> I have silver and was thinking about purchasing more, and you think this is the best time? Does it look like it will drop lower?


Nobody but the banks(aka "The Federal Reserve") can tell you that.   LOL
It is certainly a better time to buy than it was a week ago.

----------


## Jordan

> I have silver and was thinking about purchasing more, and you think this is the best time? Does it look like it will drop lower?


Look at the number of exceedingly wealthy people, then find out how many made it rich due to speculation in commodities.  In this very simple search you'll realize how incredibly hard it is to time the commodity markets.

----------


## devil21

> Look at the number of exceedingly wealthy people, then find out how many made it rich due to speculation in commodities.  In this very simple search you'll realize how incredibly hard it is to time the commodity markets.


Ill do that if you show us the exceedingly wealthy people that didn't become rich through heredity, inside information, or capitalizing on war or controlled substances.

----------


## puppetmaster

Guess John Embry read my post....five weeks later. Big moves ahead. www.kingworldnews.com

----------


## Zippyjuan

So where are we now? One third of the way thorugh the 90 day period?  According to Kitco for today, May 25th, the spot price of silver is $39.70 in New York.  To get to $125 it will have to more than triple in value over the next 60 days.  Back on April 15th it was $42 so it has actually gone down since this thread started (it peaked about $44 on May 3rd according to this chart). Source: http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_ch...hly_graphs.plx   At this point, not looking good for $125 an ounce in the next 60 days.

----------


## puppetmaster

> So where are we now? One third of the way thorugh the 90 day period?  According to Kitco for today, May 25th, the spot price of silver is $39.70 in New York.  To get to $125 it will have to more than triple in value over the next 60 days.  Back on April 15th it was $42 so it has actually gone down since this thread started (it peaked about $44 on May 3rd according to this chart). Source: http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_ch...hly_graphs.plx   At this point, not looking good for $125 an ounce in the next 60 days.


Never said straight up! It will be a tough climb but I still say 125 this summer.

Actually many more signs pointing there now compared to when I posted.

----------


## mhad

I am very very very bullish on Silver, but $125 prediction by July 15th is not very reasonable.  Don't get me wrong if that were to happen based on my holdings I would stand to make(or have) millions (literately) so I would be the first to celebrate.  

However it just isn't a realistic prediction...  Maybe by the end of the year, but not July.  As a matter of fact I would be willing to take the under on that price if @puppetmaster was willing to place a little gamble with me???

Let say we put 1oz American Eagle (Gold or Silver your choice) on it?  You can have anything over $125 and I will take anything under $124.99 at the NY close on July 15th.  Let me know if you accept my offer.

----------


## Seraphim

I prefer to value gold/silver vs other commodities and real goods. 

Versus confetti debt paper - it's a crap shoot.

----------


## UK4Paul

> I am very very very bullish on Silver, but $125 prediction by July 15th is not very reasonable.  Don't get me wrong if that were to happen based on my holdings I would stand to make(or have) millions (literately) so I would be the first to celebrate.  
> 
> However it just isn't a realistic prediction...  Maybe by the end of the year, but not July.  As a matter of fact I would be willing to take the under on that price if @puppetmaster was willing to place a little gamble with me???
> 
> Let say we put 1oz American Eagle (Gold or Silver your choice) on it?  You can have anything over $125 and I will take anything under $124.99 at the NY close on July 15th.  Let me know if you accept my offer.


Wow, someone wiling to put his money where his mouth is. The OP should take this bet, if he really believes his source.

You say you'd stand to make millions... I'm guessing that would be on your silver holdings, right? But that would still be "paper" profits until you actually SOLD your silver, which would then cause the price to lower, as you (and no doubt many others) cash in.

I suspect if it got anywhere even *close* to the $100 mark, there would be lots of people "cashing in", causing yet another massive drop which could then be blamed on the accompanying margin calls.

So I suspect IF you wanted to turn those paper profits into real profits, you'd have to get the timing right.

----------


## cubical

> Wow, someone wiling to put his money where his mouth is. The OP should take this bet, if he really believes his source.


I think everyone on these boards would do the same bet as mhad. Not really "putting his money where his mouth is".

----------


## cubical

> Never said straight up! It will be a tough climb but I still say 125 this summer.
> 
> Actually many more signs pointing there now compared to when I posted.


In 2 months will you spill the info you have? I know you said something about a state or nation moving to a silver backed currency, right?

----------


## Michael P

> In 2 months will you spill the info you have? I know you said something about a state or nation moving to a silver backed currency, right?


I don't think he even said that. No hints. I also wonder what this info was.

----------


## PeacePlan

Submitted by cpowell on 04:19PM ET Tuesday, May 24, 2011.  Section: Daily Dispatches  7:11p ET Tuesday, May 24, 2011
 Dear Friend of GATA and Gold (and Silver):


 Sprott Asset Management's chief investment strategist, John Embry, today  tells King World News that silver supplies are tight and the market riggers  won't enjoy an infinite harvest of margined investors who are easily devoured  through commodity exchange margin increases. Embry sticks his neck out as far as  GoldMoney's James Turk, noting that gold has broken out in euros and pounds and  predicting that it well might break out in dollars this summer. An excerpt from  the interview with Embry is headlined "Silver Market Extraordinarily Tight --  Look for $125" and you can find it at the King World News blog here:
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/5/24_Em...


 CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee  Inc.

----------


## Zippyjuan

I believe he said last year that gold was going to go "parabolic" in July. Since then, it is up about 20%- a nice gain (from about $1250 July 10 to $1500 today http://goldprice.org/gold-price-hist...ear_gold_price ), but not parabolic. http://www.sprott.com/Docs/Investors...0move%20up.pdf

In 2010 he predicted $50 silver (which has not been reached yet).  http://www.sprott.com/Docs/Investors...0_pg401Emb.pdf



> To conclude, I expect that gold will be at a record high by year-end and that silver will be well on its way to eclipsing the 1980 high of $50, achieved at a time the Hunts Brothers were trying to corner the market.


He is promoting what he sells.

----------


## puppetmaster

> In 2 months will you spill the info you have? I know you said something about a state or nation moving to a silver backed currency, right?


I also said it was a rumor. But I still believe this rumor has legs with the fact that the underlying reasons for the increase are still in place.
I said it was a new usage that will increase demand layered with all the other forces that will drive prices higher. Do I stand to gain....probably not as any monetary gains will be offset by a drop in my business.

I will try to update early if I know the information is coming out.

----------


## UK4Paul

I think LONG TERM, silver is probably a great investment.

However, I'm always aware of the fact that the most bullish silver/gold commentators are usually the ones SELLING gold products... which means they have a vested interest in perpetuating this "It's about to take off!" idea.

Plus, from a psychological point of view, once people make a "bet", they become more certain their bet is going to win... a form of selective bias. When you buy silver and gold, of course you're rooting for it to go up (although if it goes down, it's "fill yer boots" while it lasts land.)

Also, if enough people believe silver is going to, let's say $100 in 90 days... then there is going to be a certain amount of self-fulfilling prophecy, because more people are going to be happy to pile in at $35 or $50... which will, by definition, drive the market higher as more people buy. It may push the price to, say $60... which will further fuel the idea... a self-fulfilling prophecy, but nothing to do with inflation/deflation in the economy!

Having said that... I'm also aware that silver IS probably a good long term investment, because clearly the dollar is on a collision course with reality. My only question is, the political elites have shown their ability to kick the can continually down the road, so I don't think the dollar is going to tank in the next 30 days... I suspect we're going to be watching this car wreck drag out for 5-10 years longer, until there's no more money to raid or ability to print more without causing a collapse.

----------


## mhad

> I also said it was a rumor. But I still believe this rumor has legs with the fact that the underlying reasons for the increase are still in place.
> I said it was a new usage that will increase demand layered with all the other forces that will drive prices higher. Do I stand to gain....probably not as any monetary gains will be offset by a drop in my business.
> 
> I will try to update early if I know the information is coming out.


So by ignoring my offer does that mean you are declining?  I am basically offering you a free $125 or $4,500 (if you want to bet a 1oz Gold AE) if you accept and are right....

----------


## puppetmaster

> So by ignoring my offer does that mean you are declining?  I am basically offering you a free $125 or $4,500 (if you want to bet a 1oz Gold AE) if you accept and are right....


Regardless if I took your bet or not, my position stands as my position and it does not change my information. 
The bet does not interest me, sorry. 
Your point is made, you do not think it will reach 125 this summer.

----------


## cubical

> So by ignoring my offer does that mean you are declining?  I am basically offering you a free $125 or $4,500 (if you want to bet a 1oz Gold AE) if you accept and are right....


Why would he bet you like that? He could put the money he would give you if he lost on a $100 call option right now and make 20x what he would make with you.

----------


## Danke

> I think LONG TERM, silver is probably a great investment.
> 
> However, I'm always aware of the fact that the most bullish silver/gold commentators are usually the ones SELLING gold products... which means they have a vested interest in perpetuating this "It's about to take off!" idea.






They have been saying that ever since I started investing in PM.  So for the last 10 years, I have really taken it in the shorts 'cause of these PM seller scammers!!!  Damn them!!

----------


## mhad

> Why would he bet you like that? He could put the money he would give you if he lost on a $100 call option right now and make 20x what he would make with you.


if he lost he wouldn't make 20x right....?  Because he would be wrong.  I don't understand the logic?  His Option would expire worthless.  And if he is so confident then why not put the $100 in a call and bet me...  He could make an additional $4500 off of me at no cost to him.

----------


## UK4Paul

> Why would he bet you like that? He could put the money he would give you if he lost on a $100 call option right now and make 20x what he would make with you.


Taking up the bet would at least show to the FORUM that he really believed this rumor. By declining this bet, it at least gives ME the impression he doesn't have that much faith in it.

Bear in mind that by posting this rumor, he IS influencing people's buying decisions (maybe not directly but certainly at a subconscious level)... and yet, if he's wrong, the worst case scenario for HIM is that he's wrong... a little loss of face maybe... while it may have cost people who believed this rumor actual MONEY that they might have needed for other things, or in things that might have yielded a better return within those 90 days.

I don't mean this to sound like a harsh criticism of the OP. It's just something to keep in mind.

----------


## Ray

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74P0WS20110526

*CME says it is willing to trim margins when volatility eases*

(Reuters) - The CME Group (CME.O), which this month raised the amount of money required to trade silver and oil in response to wild price swings, may bring down margins over time once the market volatility eases, a senior official said on Thursday.

----------


## Seraphim

Lol they are part of the cause behind the volatility - funny BS.




> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74P0WS20110526
> 
> *CME says it is willing to trim margins when volatility eases*
> 
> (Reuters) - The CME Group (CME.O), which this month raised the amount of money required to trade silver and oil in response to wild price swings, may bring down margins over time once the market volatility eases, a senior official said on Thursday.

----------


## The Moravian

> Lol they are part of the cause behind the volatility - funny BS.


Whether CME is part of the manipulation or not, they know that "volatility" will continue indefinitely, they will continue to have an excuse to keep margins high, so they are playing a very clever PR game with this statement.

----------


## cubical

Is the industry solar?

----------


## mhad

The only headline for silver to move that fast would be "The FDA Approves Silver for Cancer Treatments".  Then you will get your $125.

----------


## Seraphim

Tetraoxide tetra silver (4O4AG) is a patented CURE for the HIV virus.
That would do it too.




> The only headline for silver to move that fast would be "The FDA Approves Silver for Cancer Treatments".  Then you will get your $125.

----------


## mhad

> Tetraoxide tetra silver (4O4AG) is a patented CURE for the HIV virus.
> That would do it too.


Silver is so powerful, can cure most anything... people just don't know!

----------


## Seraphim

Silver is a wonderful element. It's usages are limitless.

Gold is money. Silver is miracle.




> Silver is so powerful, can cure most anything... people just don't know!

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> Tetraoxide tetra silver (4O4AG) is a patented CURE for the HIV virus.
> That would do it too.


The design of my spaghetti jar is patented too. Oh, and electric car batteries are too.. they must be good since they have a patent (or are they only good if they have a patent AND suit an ideological view?) There are plenty of homeopathic treatments that are patented and FDA registered (not approved) that don't do $#@!, are gimmicks, and cost people hundreds of dollars for 6 month's supplies. But don't worry--they're all patented and all-natural.

Go ahead and take silver for medical purposes and watch your skin turn permanently blue... join the rest of the smurfs in the Blue Man colloidal silver group: 



I'm sure silver cured all this guy's diseases while having a side effect of creating an entirely new disease called argyria. Hmmm...silver sounds like a pharmaceutical drug than a miracle that requires 20 other pills to combat the side effects.

Plus, $#@! like colloidal silver has been know to cause "status epilepticus". So while you think you've been immunized from all sorts of ailments, you've just opened yourself up to become a higher risk for perpetual seizures. 

Congratulations, you've become a chronic epileptic in order to avoid the common cold. Fair trade and you didn't even need NAFTA.

Look, I haven't had the flu for several years now and I don't take silver. It's called an immune system. If I die or have a shorter life than others who discovered the fountain of youth and the miracle cure that silver is, at least I can have an open casket without the Smurfs theme song humming in the background.

----------


## Phantom

Paul Karason was a fool for blatently over-using his home made Collidal Silver. I bet he used junk Silver, jewelry and coins and a cheap $100 machine to mix his Colloidal, not to mention he probably over cooked it. Had he have used pure Silver and cooked it right his condition may not have occured. His junk Silver was probably contaminated with other metals and that may be the root of his condition.

I puchase Colloidal Silver from a trustworthy source and I use it responsibly and have not turned blue, even my kids and grandkids use it when needed and they have not turned blue either. We rarely use it but we alway have a bottle in the cupboard incase we need it.

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## Seraphim

This -

I think Gaddafi duck has forgotten that all substances have safe and unsafe doses.

It is well documented that a bit of silver purifies water - that is not going to turn you blue. However, it might keep you from getting a nasty bout of backside vomit syndrome induced by bacteria/viruses.






> Paul Karason was a fool for blatently over-using his home made Collidal Silver. I bet he used junk Silver, jewelry and coins and a cheap $100 machine to mix his Colloidal, not to mention he probably over cooked it. Had he have used pure Silver and cooked it right his condition may not have occured. His junk Silver was probably contaminated with other metals and that may be the root of his condition.
> 
> I puchase Colloidal Silver from a trustworthy source and I use it responsibly and have not turned blue, even my kids and grandkids use it when needed and they have not turned blue either. We rarely use it but we alway have a bottle in the cupboard incase we need it.

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## mhad

Ya I was going to respond to him but I just figured it was a lost cause.  He obviously didn't do any research on the article.   Not to mention there is a lot of crappy Colloidal Silver on the market with very low PPM, you need the high PPM (500) for it to truly be effective.

I know of a clinic (that I have been to more times then I can count) and they do alternative silver, ozone, vitamin treatments-to get your imune system working properly to heal any problems you have.  I can not tell you how many cancer patients I have seen walk out of there and are still alive decades later. 

To get back on topic....  How about that $125 silver price?

----------


## Dr.3D

> 


It's too bad this guy didn't wear a white shirt.  With his red suspenders, white shirt and blue face, he would look very patriotic.

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## Gaddafi Duck

hahah... most credible doctors will not recommend using silver to "cure" ailments. I'm sure if HIV was curable with silver, there would be at least one charity out there trumpeting its success and be saving lives. 

The truth is, silver doesn't cure these problems. If I take some form of silver because I'm sick and I happen to get better, who is to say it wasn't my immune system and rest that did the job?

If silver was a miracle, I'm sure even the bankers and pharmaceutical companies couldn't keep it under wraps. I know silver is "known" (sarcasm) to be a natural antibiotic or whatever, and has been used for centuries, but the truth is, Romans used to gargle piss believing it would clean teeth. Considering silver has been used as decoration and money for thousands of years, it's not all that unusual to think some alchemists disseminated the medicinal purposes silver serves to the general public. I mean, it's a shiny, valuable commodity--why can't it $#@!in' make me feel "golden"?

By all means, drink your silver and gargle your piss. Most doctors won't recommend using colloidal silver. It has nothing to do with the pharmaceutical companies scared some BS thing like colloidal silver will take out their market share.

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## mhad

> hahah... most credible doctors will not recommend using silver to "cure" ailments. I'm sure if HIV was curable with silver, there would be at least one charity out there trumpeting its success and be saving lives. 
> 
> The truth is, silver doesn't cure these problems. If I take some form of silver because I'm sick and I happen to get better, who is to say it wasn't my immune system and rest that did the job?
> 
> If silver was a miracle, I'm sure even the bankers and pharmaceutical companies couldn't keep it under wraps. I know silver is "known" (sarcasm) to be a natural antibiotic or whatever, and has been used for centuries, but the truth is, Romans used to gargle piss believing it would clean teeth. Considering silver has been used as decoration and money for thousands of years, it's not all that unusual to think some alchemists disseminated the medicinal purposes silver serves to the general public. I mean, it's a shiny, valuable commodity--why can't it $#@!in' make me feel "golden"?
> 
> By all means, drink your silver and gargle your piss. Most doctors won't recommend using colloidal silver. It has nothing to do with the pharmaceutical companies scared some BS thing like colloidal silver will take out their market share.


Well you can tell me what you "think the trust is" all you want but I know what I have seen with my own eyes over and over again... FROM REAL PEOPLE, that I personally know and touch and talk to!  Not some pharma with a patent selling their "miracle drug" that just masks the problem and keeps people dependent on it for life while they are raking in the $$$.

And this "creditable doctors" all went to traditional medical schools where their text books are paid for by the pharma companies!

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## Gaddafi Duck

> Well you can tell me what you "think the trust is" all you want but I know what I have seen with my own eyes over and over again... FROM REAL PEOPLE, that I personally know and touch and talk to!  Not some pharma with a patent selling their "miracle drug" that just masks the problem and keeps people dependent on it for life while they are raking in the $$$.
> 
> And this "creditable doctors" all went to traditional medical schools where their text books are paid for by the pharma companies!


Were these people cured due to the silver they ingested, or were they cured regardless due to the circumstances (rest, immune system, other drugs taken, etc.)? It's like saying printing money caused a "recovery" when a recovery was going to happen whether money was printed or not. You can't really link events together and point definitively to silver curing someone of something when it's only one or two examples.

It's just like all those homeopathic treatments. You just need to dish out a few hundred bucks to use an all-natural method only to discover a few months later you'd be better off doing something else. That's the problem I have with colloidal silver.

Besides, if colloidal silver worked, I really doubt a few rich pharmaceutical companies could keep it under wraps for decades. Especially in curing HIV. Really? Really? Silver cures HIV and it's not mainstream? 

But it's a big conspiracy. The medical industrial complex has successfully suppressed  the legitimacy of silver. The fact is, if silver had all of these properties you say, it's not used because the antibiotics we have discovered over the years work far more effectively even if silver worked at all.

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## mhad

> Were these people cured due to the silver they ingested, or were they cured regardless due to the circumstances (rest, immune system, other drugs taken, etc.)? It's like saying printing money caused a "recovery" when a recovery was going to happen whether money was printed or not. You can't really link events together and point definitively to silver curing someone of something when it's only one or two examples.
> 
> It's just like all those homeopathic treatments. You just need to dish out a few hundred bucks to use an all-natural method only to discover a few months later you'd be better off doing something else. That's the problem I have with colloidal silver.
> 
> Besides, if colloidal silver worked, I really doubt a few rich pharmaceutical companies could keep it under wraps for decades. Especially in curing HIV. Really? Really? Silver cures HIV and it's not mainstream? 
> 
> But it's a big conspiracy. The medical industrial complex has successfully suppressed  the legitimacy of silver. The fact is, if silver had all of these properties you say, it's not used because the antibiotics we have discovered over the years work far more effectively even if silver worked at all.


It is a natural homeopathic clinic!  NO DRUGS!  And not "just silver" - ozone, colon cleansing, vitamin, all kinds of stuff to get the immune system healthy and able to fight off any disease...  Oh and the best part no chemo, no throwing up, no loss of hair...etc...you know all the fun stuff that you get when you go to the "credible doctors"....  Lets destroy your immune system while we try and kill the cancer!  

You don't have to believe me, it's fine, but you will never convince me otherwise when I have seen it time and time again with my own eyes.

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## Gaddafi Duck

> It is a natural homeopathic clinic!  NO DRUGS!  And not "just silver" - ozone, colon cleansing, vitamin, all kinds of stuff to get the immune system healthy and able to fight off any disease...  Oh and the best part no chemo, no throwing up, no loss of hair...etc...you know all the fun stuff that you get when you go to the "credible doctors"....  Lets destroy your immune system while we try and kill the cancer!  
> 
> You don't have to believe me, it's fine, but you will never convince me otherwise when I have seen it time and time again with my own eyes.


I'm sure silver cures cancer. Just need your credit card information to start your free trial today.

Right before this infomercial, there was a guy pitching "recession proof profits".

It's a grand conspiracy too then I guess...that the cancer charities don't look into silver more to save the lives of their patients. It's a grand scheme...have the bankers suppress the price of silver, have the pharmaceutical companies shield academic journals and dispel any legitimacy of silver to cure sick people, and have the HIV/cancer charities ignore silver so that they can go on making sure these sick people are screwed.

The only people who know the secrets of silver are ones without PhD's and that don't practice medicine and that listen to Alex Jones' commercials on his radio show. 

Kudos to those few enlightened souls..

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## mhad

> I'm sure silver cures cancer. Just need your credit card information to start your free trial today.
> 
> Right before this infomercial, there was a guy pitching "recession proof profits".
> 
> It's a grand conspiracy too then I guess...that the cancer charities don't look into silver more to save the lives of their patients. It's a grand scheme...have the bankers suppress the price of silver, have the pharmaceutical companies shield academic journals and dispel any legitimacy of silver to cure sick people, and have the HIV/cancer charities ignore silver so that they can go on making sure these sick people are screwed.
> 
> The only people who know the secrets of silver are ones without PhD's and that don't practice medicine and that listen to Alex Jones' commercials on his radio show. 
> 
> Kudos to those few enlightened souls..


Firstly I don't listen to Alex Jones because I can't stand his fear mongering, the only time I visit his website is if it is a link from Drudge (and the silver he sells on his website is junk).  That being said I don't think we will ever agree on the subject.  I know what I have seen and you know what you believe.  It is like trying to tell the solder that shot Osama in the head it didn't happen....  but I understand doubt by the general public because of how it has been handled, but you will never be able to convince that solder of anything different. 

That being said if you ever have a family member that is in a critical situation and the credible doctors "send them home to die, because there is nothing left for them" I hope you will send me a PM and I will give you the information I have.

I think we have hijacked the thread long enough.  :-) I would just really like the OP to accept my bet that silver will not reach $124.99

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## AmericasLastHope

Less than 30 days left and silver is cheaper than when this thread was started.  Any updates?

Interestingly, the 90th day is July 15th which is the day it becomes illegal to sell silver over the counter.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tra...inning-july-15

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## Bern

> ... Any updates? ...


COMEX registered silver (ie. silver in the vaults available to settle contracts) continues to dwindle.  They supposedly have less than 28 million ounces left.  




> ...
> I will be watching closely the next big delivery month for silver and that is July.  Here the OI fell marginally from 37,925 to 36,070.  The bankers were not happy.  They saw the total OI fall but it is not in the front delivery month which is where they desire it to be in.  First day notice will be the 30th of June, a week  from Wednesday.   I believe options for a silver contract expires Friday night.
> ...
> In silver we are witnessing the open interest fall with a rising price of silver. No doubt the huge margin increases are having its effect on silver as the silver comex seems to turning to a physical market as leverage disappears.  We must couple this with 5 straight days of zero delivery notices which is very strange in itself.
> ...


http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/2011...edecision.html

36,070 contracts = 180,350,000 ounces

That number will continue to fall over the next week, but it is still quite large compared to the available silver to settle contracts.

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## Seraphim

It seems like the regulations may actually shut down the trough of non physical conduits to silver/gold investment.

If it in fact plays out this way, the cost of the real stuff will BALLOON.




> Less than 30 days left and silver is cheaper than when this thread was started.  Any updates?
> 
> Interestingly, the 90th day is July 15th which is the day it becomes illegal to sell silver over the counter.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tra...inning-july-15

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## puppetmaster

Still waiting like the rest of you.......

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## Brown Sapper

Haha if it hits $125 half the people on this forum are going to be millionaires.

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## devil21

> Haha if it hits $125 half the people on this forum are going to be millionaires.


Got that right.  I picked up more ozs today!

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## cubical

> Haha if it hits $125 half the people on this forum are going to be millionaires.


Zimbabwe is filled with millionaires

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## nobody's_hero

> Zimbabwe is filled with millionaires


Haha. I was thinking the same thing.

Zimbabwe's government has found a solution, though, in that every few months they'll knock some zeroes off of their currency bills and thus create a 'stronger' currency. 

Oh, the spectacular abilities of fiat currency, lol.

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## libertybrewcity

That's one damn good sales technique by the sellers. OBVIOUSLY they want to tell you the price is going to go through the roof so you buy more jewelry when the price is already pretty high..

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## losinglife

> Zimbabwe is filled with millionaires


ha was about to say teh same thing. Sure we will all have tons of money, but what are you gonna do with it with all teh inflation

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## Dr.3D

I'm already a quadrillionaire in Zimbabwe dollars.    I have ten, one hundred trillion dollar Zimbabwe notes in a frame on the wall in my office.   When people see them, they laugh and ask why I have play money in a frame hanging on my wall.    They get a pretty serious look on their face when I tell them the notes are real.

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## devil21

She sure took a beating today, along with gold and other commodities.

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## Zippyjuan

We are past 60 days- two thirds of the way.  Geting close to $125 yet?  Looks like we need it to more than triple to get there ($36 today). Looking back through the early posts, looks like it was $43 when we started so it is actually going down- off sixteen percent.

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## Brian4Liberty

> Never said straight up! It will be a tough climb but I still say 125 this summer.
> 
> Actually many more signs pointing there now compared to when I posted.


Bump for $33.

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## devil21

> Bump for $33.


What the hell is going on?  The stock market is up big, the dollar is DOWN....and metals are getting pummeled AGAIN.

WTF?  Im seeing some nonsense floating around about a huge stock market rally to commence soon but do people really buy that tripe and dump everything into the market?

----------


## cubical

> What the hell is going on?  The stock market is up big, the dollar is DOWN....and metals are getting pummeled AGAIN.
> 
> WTF?  Im seeing some nonsense floating around about a huge stock market rally to commence soon but do people really buy that tripe and dump everything into the market?


Maybe you should sell. Maybe everything we have been speaking of is an illusion.

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## -C-

That silver prices will be that high, that fast, unless SHTF is in motion, and to hell with silver at that point...in all honesty it ain't going to save your ass.

If anything I'll reserve to say it'll be 40-50 by years end. But twice that? Nah.

Corn motherfuckers, thats where its at...people have to eat...they don't need silver for $#@! when there is nothing left to do but eat.

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## Dr.3D

> That silver prices will be that high, that fast, unless SHTF is in motion, and to hell with silver at that point...in all honesty it ain't going to save your white ass.
> 
> If anything I'll reserve to say it'll be 40-50 by years end. But twice that? Nah.
> 
> Corn motherfuckers, thats where its at...people have to eat...they don't need silver for $#@! when there is nothing left to do but eat.


If things get that bad, I'll just eat that albino mule you seem to be worried about saving.

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## The Moravian

Perhaps other people have posted this before (I didn't check every post on this thread of 17+ pages) but I want to make the best point I can, in hopes that people will hear it.

It is always a good idea to trade paper Federal Reserve notes for something of intrinsic value, especially something that has just dropped in price. Silver, gold, food, stock commodities, guns, oil, whatever you have been following and know to be a good store of value.

It is foolish to make exact price predictions for a specific time frame (i.e. 125 dollar silver in 90 days) because people will use your prediction as a basis for falsely arguing that silver is a "bad investment" when the price has dropped from an earlier high (which is often a good time to buy it). Wise investors research something themselves before putting a huge portion of their money into it, only fools will throw all their wealth into something solely on the basis of extreme predictions and get-rich-quick hype. 

I own physical silver. I put much of my savings into it over the past 3 years along with any excess money I had from time to time. I followed the market price and bought on the dips, and have already sold most of what I bought already, at 15-30% profit each time. Yes, if I cashed out all my savings at the end of 2008 and put it ALL into silver at once I would have made triple or even double it's value by now. But I was cautious and got into the market slowly and deliberately. I didn't get burnt like people I know who "followed the hype" in 1980 and 2007 did. I still made a good amount of money that got me this far, even through periods of very tight budgets.

Those who miss the main point of what I'm saying and pick it apart by focusing on what I could have done better, are fools for not thinking about what they can decide today, now, for the future. 

Isn't it better to see that paper Federal Reserve notes will certainly lose value over the next year or two and find something else to own, rather than to argue over the exact price of something at a certain point in the near future and push people away from something of intrinsic value?

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## devil21

> Maybe you should sell. Maybe everything we have been speaking of is an illusion.


Elaborate?  The markets are being very irrational today.  I don't think I asked for your investment advice however.

----------


## mhad

BUMP.....lol

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## Bern

I don't know how many of you are reading Harvey Organ's blog daily or otherwise paying attention to what's happening with COMEX deliveries, inventories and deadlines for first day notices, etc., but it seems to me that the price action in silver over the last few days is pretty obviously an attempt by the big commercials to drive the price down and shake out some of the July contracts that are still standing.  The remaining open interest is very high compared to available COMEX inventory.  I expect the price is going to rise pretty good next week after the dust settles.

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## devil21

> I don't know how many of you are reading Harvey Organ's blog daily or otherwise paying attention to what's happening with COMEX deliveries, inventories and deadlines for first day notices, etc., but it seems to me that the price action in silver over the last few days is pretty obviously an attempt by the big commercials to drive the price down and shake out some of the July contracts that are still standing.  The remaining open interest is very high compared to available COMEX inventory.  I expect the price is going to rise pretty good next week after the dust settles.


There's been no less than 10,000 new short positions created by JPM and friends in the last two weeks.  It's still being manipulated to the hilt.

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## UK4Paul

Are we there yet?

----------


## Dr.3D

> Are we there yet?


Well, they are holding it down for a while so it will be more exciting when it does go up.

----------


## Bern

Is the summer over yet?

----------


## puppetmaster

still hopeful!!!

got a few days left!

lol

----------


## Kelly.

will you say why you thought it would go so high after the date you thought it would get there?

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## puppetmaster

yes.....but a little later, After summer 2011

----------


## devil21

Today's spike in PMs is based on Bernanke's statement that QE3 may be necessary.

----------


## Bern

Yeah - and also likely a bouyed by the European debt contagion mess which drive gold to Euro denominated highs yesterday.  Just wait until QE3 is official.  Better yet - don't wait.  Act as soon as you can.

----------


## UK4Paul

Well, this is why I take personal predictions with a pinch of salt; "a friend of a friend heard a rumour..."

I do think precious metals, long term, are destined to go way up... mainly because both the US and the EU are going to have "no choice" (*) but to print, simply to keep up with payments on their runaway, exponentially growing debts.

(* Of course they have choice, but what's the actual chances of them spending within their means? lol)

However, nobody should make investment decisions based on RUMOURS. Or even RUMORS

----------


## devil21

She's going on a heck of a run so far overnight and this morning.  I think a close above $40 today and tomorrow will send silver off to the races again.

----------


## falconplayer11

$40 today. Nice!

----------


## mhad

so anyways....are you going to tell us that special inside info now?

----------


## jware

Bump...I would like to know as well.

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## puppetmaster

sure. but I want to wait till summer ends......I am still buying some. sorry to delay.

----------


## ctiger2

Silver at $125 would indicate a collapse of the dollar. It's possible, but not probable. More likely we'll see a yearly high of $75 range after QE3 is confirmed. That's a 53% move from where we are now.

----------


## Seraphim

Agreed.

I have 70-80$ pegged as the range silver will finish 2011. 




> Silver at $125 would indicate a collapse of the dollar. It's possible, but not probable. More likely we'll see a yearly high of $75 range after QE3 is confirmed. That's a 53% move from where we are now.

----------


## nejar462

If you honestly thought Silver would hit 125 as soon as you think it would then you'd sink all your cash in options. Assuming no backwardation, you could turn 1000% profits AFTER taxes easily.

The question is, how sure are you it will happen within that time frame? I agree with the fundamentals of your analysis, but timing is critical. I don't like the guy but Keynes was right, "Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

----------


## Zippyjuan

90 days are up (actually up on the 15th of July).  How is it doing? Silver was $42 an ounce when we started this thread.

----------


## devil21

> 90 days are up (actually up on the 15th of July).  How is it doing? Silver was $42 an ounce when we started this thread.


Sittin in about the same spot.  Silver will hit $125 at some point but I want to know the insider info that was claimed to spur this thread.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Apparently not a very reliable one.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> 90 days are up (actually up on the 15th of July).  How is it doing? Silver was $42 an ounce when we started this thread.


Looks like we are finally back where we started from!

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## mhad

@puppetmaster when exactly does summer end for you, just trying to get an idea when you will give us the inside info?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> @puppetmaster when exactly does summer end for you, just trying to get an idea when you will give us the inside info?


Time is already up- the "inside info" was not reliable.Nobody can reliably tell you what the price of gold or silver will be in three or six months- no matter who they are or know.

----------


## puppetmaster

New catalytic converters are able to use silver as a catalyst.  Should put pressure on silver.

summer is up soon but hey it was a rumor and that's what I said it was.

----------


## devil21

So silver could replace platinum in catalytic converters?   Considering platinum's price it makes sense an alternative would be discovered.  Add it to silver's myriad of industrial uses.  Now, if we could just get the banks to stop manipulating the price.

----------


## Bern

That day is likely coming soon, either because of *PAGE* or COMEX default.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> New catalytic converters are able to use silver as a catalyst.  Should put pressure on silver.
> 
> summer is up soon but hey it was a rumor and that's what I said it was.


Not exactly talking a lot of platinum to make a converter so impact on silver prices (assuming they use a similiar quantity of silver to the amount of platinum) on a global level won't be much. Currently, a catalytic converter only has about three to seven GRAMS of platinum in them and there are 31 grams in a troy ounce so you need about ten converters to use up an ounce.  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/02/as-platinum-soa/



> and considering each catalytic converter contains between three and seven grams of the stuff


In 2009, there were roughly 5.5 million vehicles sold in the US.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States so if you replaced every converter in every vehicle in the US If all of them were to put in silver catalytic converters, that would use between 16  million and 38 million grams or 516,,000 to 1.2 million ounces  of  silver . Compare that to 670 million ounces mined each year (2007 figures http://www.silverinsights.com/_pages...tistics_1.html )

----------


## devil21

3 to 7 grams is still $200-$400+ of platinum at current spot price.  Those are going to be mighty expensive cats.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> 3 to 7 grams is still $200-$400+ of platinum at current spot price.  Those are going to be mighty expensive cats.


There is a growing market of people trying to reclaim that platinum out of them. Some reports of converters getting stolen out of cars (for a while air bags were being stolen too due to their cost/ value).  The article I linked to (from 2008 so prices are higher today):



> Forget the rims, and never mind the stereo. Modern thieves looking for a serious payoff are skipping the obvious old staples and crawling underneath your car in search of the real prize: the catalytic converter. Standard issue on cars in this country since the mid-1970s, catalytic converters use a small amount of platinum to convert harmful engine emissions, including nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide, into less harmful ones, like nitrogen and carbon dioxide. 
> 
> Considering that platinum has, in recent weeks, made an understatement of its status as a precious metal by touching $2075 an ounce, and considering each catalytic converter contains between three and seven grams of the stuff, that little metal box under your car just became a whole lot more interesting to certain folks. This recent price spike is largely the result of fears of mine closures due to power cutbacks in South Africa, which controls some 80 percent of the world’s platinum output, but it’s hardly platinum alone that is seeing record prices. Palladium and rhodium, also used as catalysts, are running about $445 and $7300 an ounce, respectively. So what’s the answer? An Ohio company’s medieval-esque CatClamp is a ground-level tool to thwart thieves (who often get $200 or more for each stolen catalyst), but a lasting solution will have to come from the source. 
> 
> The world’s automakers, which collectively spend more than $2 billion a year on platinum, are striving to find ways to curb their need. Mazda, for instance, has devised a catalytic converter that uses nano-particles of precious metals instead of larger particles to reduce the amount of such elements by 70 to 90 percent.


http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/02/as-platinum-soa/

----------

