# Lifestyles & Discussion > Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies >  The Litepresence Report on Cryptocurrency

## presence

CLICK HERE FOR HIGH RESOLUTION


I've had multiple requests to create a unified location for my charts, predictions, forecasts, etc.  so here it is. 


 I'll update the thread whenever I'm trading.  You can chat w/ me live at the btce trollbox.


Best of luck my friends!






Tips are Graciously Appreciated!



It is the day traders JOB to provide liquidity to the market and his duty to do so at profit.  
Trading at the margins, the day trader is THE FORCE which stabilizes price.

Bitcoin is Growing Linearly on Log Scale.
Shameless to buy and hold.

I chose to be a bigger part of the crypto movement, and help reign in the long price.
I hope these coming pages get your feet wet in quantitative analysis and earn you many coins.






> These bankers have more money than god. 
> 
> $#@! 'em all.
> 
> This is exciting. 
> 
> People involved with crypto are a brotherhood of people who want to change the world for the better. 
> 
> Ignore the haters.

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## presence

This mornings report... sorry to start off neutral/bearish... but it is what it is:

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## muh_roads

NMC?

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## presence

Things change:

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## presence



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## presence

> NMC?




is breaking out right now.

check your 1m NMC/BTC

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/nmcbtc


2h shows similar "round bottom" to LTC/BTC

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## presence



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## muh_roads

0.0078 would be nice.  I got in a bit too high at 0.0069 a few days back.  Thx

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## presence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory




> *Greater fool theory* 			 								From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>  								 												 					Jump to:					navigation, 					search 
>  				The *greater fool theory*  describes a situation where the price of an object is not being driven  by intrinsic values, but by expectations that irrational bidders for  limited assets or commodities, will set the price.[1] A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price.[2][3] Or one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.[4]
>  In real estate  the greater fool theory can drive investment under the expectation that  prices will rise, or force need-based-buyers to out bid irrational or  ill-informed buyers.[5] A need-basis can be for basic housing or for organizations fulfilling exigent commercial interests.[6] This phenomenon may also occur among banks offering real estate financing.[7]
>  In the stock market *greater fool theory* (also called *survivor investing*) is the belief held by one who makes a questionable investment,  with the assumption that they will be able to sell it later to "a  greater fool"; in other words, buying something not because you believe  that it is worth the price, but rather because you believe that you will  be able to sell it to someone else at an even higher price.[8]
> Art is another commodity in which speculation and privileged access drive prices, not intrinsic value. In November 2013, hedge fund manager Steven A. Cohen of SAC Capital is selling artworks at auction which he only recently acquired through private transactions. Works include paintings by Gerhard Richter and Rudolf Stingel and a sculpture by Cy Twombly. They are expected to sell for up to $80 million. In reporting the sale, the New York Times  notes that, "Ever the trader, Mr. Cohen is also taking advantage of  today’s active art market where new collectors will often pay far more  for artworks than they are worth."[9]
>  It is similar in concept to the Keynesian beauty contest principle of stock investing.

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## presence

> *Arbitrage* 			 								From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>  								 												 					Jump to:					navigation, 					search 
>  				For the film, see Arbitrage (film).
>  Not to be confused with Arbitration.
>  In economics and finance, *arbitrage* /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow  at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at  least one state; in simple terms, it is the possibility of a risk-free  profit after transaction costs. For instance, an arbitrage is present  when there is the opportunity to instantaneously buy low and sell high.
>  In principle and in academic use, an arbitrage is risk-free; in common use, as in statistical arbitrage, it may refer to _expected_ profit, though losses may occur, and in practice, there are always risks  in arbitrage, some minor (such as fluctuation of prices decreasing  profit margins), some major (such as devaluation of a currency or  derivative). In academic use, an arbitrage involves taking advantage of  differences in price of a _single_ asset or _identical_ cash-flows; in common use, it is also used to refer to differences between _similar_ assets (relative value or convergence trades), as in merger arbitrage.
>  People who engage in arbitrage are called *arbitrageurs* (IPA /ˌɑrbɨtrɑːˈʒɜr/)—such as a bank or brokerage firm. The term is mainly applied to trading in financial instruments, such as bonds, stocks, derivatives, commodities and currencies.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

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## presence

> *Bagholder* 			 								From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>  								 												 					Jump to:					navigation, 					search 
>  				In U.S. financial slang, a *bagholder* is a shareholder left holding shares of worthless stocks.[1]
>  The shareholders could be caught up in a corporate bankruptcy and accounting scandal, as was the case with Enron and Worldcom, or the victims of a pump and dump  scheme, in which naive and unsophisticated investors fall victim to  e-mail spam, rigged stock tip forums, or other tricks used by stock  touts to drive up the shares of worthless penny stocks.
>  The term has also been applied as a term of derision to real estate investors.[2]
>  The word is derived by combining shareholder with the expression "left holding the bag."
> *Contents*1 Holding the bag2 See also3 References4 External links
> 
> *Holding the bag* The expression "left holding the bag" originated in eighteenth century Britain and spread throughout the English-speaking world.[3]  In this context, a person left holding the bag is stuck with the stolen  goods, taking the blame from the police while the rest of a criminal  gang escapes.
> ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagholder

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## presence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke



> *Pig in a poke* 			 								From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>  								 												 					Jump to:					navigation, 					search 
>  				For other uses, see Pig in a poke (disambiguation).
>  The idioms _pig in a poke_ and _sell a pup_ (or _buy a pup_) refer to a confidence trick originating in the Late Middle Ages, when meat was scarce, but cats and dogs (puppies) were not.[1][2][3] The idiom _pig in a poke_  can also simply refer to someone buying a low-quality pig in a bag  because he or she did not carefully check what was in the bag.[4]
> *Contents*1 Etymology2 Relation to other idioms and expressions3 Trivia4 References5 Bibliography
> 
> *Etymology* The scheme entailed the sale of a suckling pig or pup in a poke  (bag). The bag would actually contain a cat or dog (not particularly  prized as a source of meat), which was sold to the victim in an unopened  bag. The French idiom _acheter (un) chat en poche_ (to buy a cat in a bag) refers to an actual sale of this nature, as do many European equivalents, while the English expression refers to the appearance of the trick.[5]
> *Relation to other idioms and expressions* The English colloquialisms such as _turn out to be a pig in a poke_ or _buy a pig in a poke_  mean that something is sold or bought without the buyer knowing its  true nature or value, especially when buying without inspecting the item  beforehand. The phrase can also be applied to accepting an idea or plan  without a full understanding of its basis. Similar expressions exist in  other European languages, most of them referring to the purchase of a  cat in a bag.
>  The advice being given is 'don't buy a pig until you have seen it'.  This is enshrined in British commercial law as 'caveat emptor'—Latin for  'let the buyer beware'. This remains the guiding principle of commerce  in many countries and, in essence, supports the view that if you buy  something you take responsibility to make sure it is what you intended  to buy.
> ...

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## presence

http://cryptolife.net/crapcoin-of-the-day-pennies/




> *CrapCoin of the day: Pennies*
> 
> Hazard                                     December 10, 2013                                     Uncategorized  6 Comments 
>                                                                                No, not the US government penny, although that is a pretty  crappy coin too. I’m talking about Pennies (CENT), a PoS coin originally  released by shakezula. This coin is so hilariously bad that I don’t  even know where to start. CENT was originally released on shakezula’s  (low traffic) website and only casually mentioned in cryptsy chat for  several days until it was actually posted on bitcointalk, meaning it had  a sizable premine/instamine associated with it – but that is the least  of CENT’s problems.
>  CENT was originally intended to have a total of 1 billion coins, with  1 coin mined per block, with a modest PoS rate. Yet, if you look on  cryptsy, there are trillions upon trillions of CENT for sale. Why is  this? Due to an extreme case of developer incompetence, CENT had the  most hilariously broken proof of stake (PoS) system ever devised, with  an inflation rate putting even the Zimbabwean dollar to shame. This  broken PoS system caused a near infinite amount of coins to flood into  the market, earning CENT’s place in cryptocurrency history as the most  broken and worthless coin ever.
>  Due to how utterly worthless this coin is, there is no one mining it.  No miners = no transactions = dead network. This coin exists literally  only exist within the confines of the Cryptsy trading area… And even  there, it’s worthless. The buy side is totally empty due to it’s bare  minimum price, so if you wanted to offload your CENTs, you’d be placed  in the back of a 3300 LTC sell wall. Good luck. The XPM market has a bit  more liquidity, but it’s only a matter of time before it bottoms out on  that too.
>  Holders of this coin are among the finest examples of bagholders.  Little support and giant sell walls mean you’ll be holding onto it for a  very, very long time.






If you really want to laugh your ass off... ebay search:


cent pennies crypto







lulz

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## muh_roads

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagholder


Yeah I'm not too concerned.  It always comes back.  We aren't at the point of crucifying the alts yet.  And NMC actually offers something different unlike all  of the other Elvis impersonators.  I play with very small amounts.

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## presence

> Yeah I'm not too concerned.  It always comes back.  We aren't at the point of crucifying the alts yet.  And NMC actually offers something different unlike all  of the other Elvis impersonators.  I play with very small amounts.


Bagholder was in no way directed at you... I'm just "building a thread" w/ crypto related info.  

I agree NMC and LTC are sound investments.  Worst case is you hold long.... they'll both go 10 fold by the end of next year.

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## presence

bitcoin-is-evil
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-is-evil/?_r=0

nyc-retailers-see-big-upside-by-accepting-bitcoins
http://nypost.com/2013/12/28/nyc-retailers-see-big-upside-by-accepting-bitcoins/

bitcoin-buys-burgers-to-beer-as-shoppers-go-virtual
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-30/bitcoin-buys-burgers-to-beer-as-shoppers-go-virtual.html

*Does It Make Any Sense for Overstock.com to Accept Bitcoin?*http://www.businessweek.com/articles...accept-bitcoin

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## presence

/bitcoin-use-spreading-despite-vulnerability
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/tech...-1226792056293

will-nyc-get-its-first-bitcoin-atm
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/will-...9Lnxx_T8Q.html

bitcoin-miners-do-not-have-to-register-as-money-transfer-services-ruling
http://www.slashgear.com/bitcoin-min...ling-28310218/

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## presence

bitcoin-alternative-dogecoin-hacked-21-million-coins-stolen
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/bit...ry?id=21342612


bitcoin-service-firms-best-investment-not-virtual-currency
http://www.scmp.com/business/banking...rtual-currency

*Bitcoin start-up nabs Goldman board member*http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/...-burns-circle/

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## presence

bitcoin-trading-platform-coinsetter-close-raising-1-5m-new-capita
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-trad...m-new-capital/


/how-you-should-have-spent-100-in-2013-hint-bitcoin/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirh...-hint-bitcoin/


/arisebitcoin-40-bitcoin-billboards-san-francisco-bay-area/
http://www.coindesk.com/arisebitcoin...isco-bay-area/

dc-businesses-starting-to-accept-bitcoin
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...0a2_story.html

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## presence

bitcoin-needs-women
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/bitcoin-needs-women

/bitcoin-breakthrough-financial-protocol-20131230
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/prem...tocol-20131230

whats-next-for-bitcoin/
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/29796...t-for-bitcoin/

whats-next-for-bitcoin-in-2014/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor...tcoin-in-2014/

/building-bitcoin-use-in-south.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/2...-in-south.html

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## presence

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-s...00072&cid=1202
*China's Bitcoin ban benefits Taiwanese online shopping site*bitcoins-proving-popular-in-slovakia
http://www.praguepost.com/eu-news/34...ar-in-slovakia


http://www.thestreet.com/story/12174...t-lingers.html
china-moves-to-cool-bitcoin-trade-but-heat-lingers.html

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## presence

http://www.pnj.com/article/20131226/...nclick_check=1
Bitcoin-currency-fuels-unique-program-to-help-Escambia-s-needy


bitcoin-start-up-nabs-wal-mart-goldman-board-member/
http://jutiagroup.com/20131227-wal-m...-board-member/

*Vandelay Web Announces Acceptance of BitCoin*http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/12/prweb11449413.htm



this-is-what-people-in-9-emerging-markets-think-about-bitcoin-survey/
http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/19/th...itcoin-survey/


mobile-nations-reports-surge-bitcoin-payments/
http://www.coindesk.com/mobile-natio...coin-payments/

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## presence

betting-against-bitcoin-bubble/
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/...itcoin-bubble/

mine-bitcoins-after-employees-leave-2013-12
http://www.businessinsider.com/mine-...-leave-2013-12

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## presence



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## PaulConventionWV

Any idea why volume was so low throughout the last bubble?

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## presence

Expect *flat trading* in the coming week.  

Look for *5% 24 hour* gain in about 2 weeks.  

Look for* 40% loss* over end of January and into February.

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## presence

> Any idea why volume was so low throughout the last bubble?



I would expect it was steady hands holding their positions... as opposed to the "panic in / panic out" trading of April when there was still uncertainty as to whether crypto would/would not BE something.   There was a different attitude during this last bubble.  Those of us in crypto are in crypto; long.

The April bubble was all about fear, uncertainty, and doubt; FUD.  Much more focus on stop loss.   Continuous DDOS of GOX amplified that quite a bit.

The social media environment, the constant MSM coverage, government regulation, new exchanges popping up all the time this past 4 months... viral spreading country by country... much more positive vibes.

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## muh_roads

> Expect *flat trading* in the coming week.  
> 
> Look for *5% 24 hour* gain in about 2 weeks.  
> 
> Look for* 40% loss* over end of January and into February.

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## presence



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## presence



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## presence

I'm holding fiat... looking for consolidation to become very tight... then I'll buy in for a short 3-5% gain... before existing long to fiat for a month or two, for the final leg of bubble deflation.   I might short play the bull trap on the way down.

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## FSP-Rebel

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/...-bitcoin-fund/
Sounds like the institutional investors and their managers are coming big in 2014.

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## presence



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## presence

I suspect PPC/USD and NMC/USD to have the widest margins to play through consolidation.   

I would expect LTC/USD to have the most reliable and bold breakout potential at the end of consolidation; although NMC always has that crazy punch when you least expect it.

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## presence

> http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/...-bitcoin-fund/
> Sounds like the institutional investors and their managers are coming big in 2014.


Agreed... but I would suspect they have the trading sense to wait until February to buy. 


Doubtless institutional investors will be the ones which push the price to $10k / BTC.    

I'm hoping to hold 30% more btc when that time comes

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## presence

Open orders, buying centers @: 

$4.22 / PPC

$4.82 / NMC


These are short plays during consolidation; banking in fiat otherwise.

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## muh_roads

> I suspect PPC/USD and NMC/USD to have the widest margins to play through consolidation.   
> 
> I would expect LTC/USD to have the most reliable and bold breakout potential at the end of consolidation; although NMC always has that crazy punch when you least expect it.


Make sure you don't stay in PPC and believe in it too much.  Day-trade only.  "Proof of Stake" systems with unlimited supply caps is a crypto ponzi.  These types of alts will consolidate and eat each other alive.

Sunny King may be a smart coder and have a cool personality, but PPC is 100% liberal in economic theory.  I just don't see it ending well.

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## presence

> Make sure you don't stay in PPC and believe in it too much.  Day-trade only.  "Proof of Stake" systems with unlimited supply caps is a crypto ponzi.  These types of alts will consolidate and eat each other alive.
> 
> Sunny King may be a smart coder and have a cool personality, but PPC is 100% liberal in economic theory.  I just don't see it ending well.


As a rule of thumb, I never hold NMC or PPC more than 72 hours and I only buy deep red.

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## presence

*MSC* and MST are both 

"Mastercoin"

MSC is more formally the "Mastercoin - Exodus Project" a new protocol on the bitcoin blockchain which will allow tangibles to be traded within bitcoin.



MST is traded at cryptsy and is a junk coin.  
*
You want learn more about MS**C** asap.*


here are some links to get you started:  


Price is up from 0.01 btc to 0.3 btc in past month. 


This is a rock solid project w/ whitepaper

It currently is still traded via escrow and google spreadsheet; you're in on the ground floor so to speak.  \

learn more about buying MSC here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287145.0



More general info here:
http://www.mastercoin.org/
http://www.mastercoin.org/#resources
http://blog.mastercoin.org/


google spreadsheet to trade:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0


giveaway, (paused last I checked)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272577.0
http://mastercoin-faucet.com/bitcointalk-intro

whitepaper
https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec



July 2013 Announcement Thread:
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0


first live "exchange" :
http://mcoin.io/#/



5000 BTC have been raised to fund this project:

Coding contest:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.0






> Many MasterCoin functions are now available online (Note site disclaimers! There may still be bugs!): 
> 
> http://mastercoin-explorer.com by tachikomahttps://masterchest.info/ by zathrashttp://masterchain.info/ by grazcoinhttp://mymastercoins.com/ by bitoy 
> 
> We now have:
> 
> Our own subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/mastercoinOur own website: http://www.mastercoin.orgList of tasks on Trello: https://trello.com/mastercoinMultiple local chapters: http://wiki.mastercoin.org/index.php...ation_ChaptersA non-profit foundation managing project funds: http://www.mastercoinfoundation.orgA legal / self-regulatory group (CODAP): http://www.codap.co/An IRC channel irc://irc.freenode.net/mastercoin

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## presence

There is new money and I don't know where its coming from...

PPC just went parabolic.


BTC gox looking very bullish
LTCusd very strong

NMC looking strong.




*ALERT*


trading sideways may no longer be the game.  



I may have underestimated our market... it seems that BTC may still be coming up out of despair but it was slowed down because the alts are sponging the money.

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## presence

ppc




I'm back to holding LTC.


I'll sleep in it tonight.

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## PaulConventionWV

Can you sum up Mastercoin for me?  

If the price already went from .01 btc to .3 btc, do you really think it's going to get close to or overcome btc in value?  If that happens, then what happens to the price of btc?  Are we supposed to assume that msc is the new thing now?

Sorry if this is a lot of questions, but how is it different from btc in terms of how it works, and what makes you think it's going to get bigger?

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## presence

> Can you sum up Mastercoin for me?  
> 
> If the price already went from .01 btc to .3 btc, do you really think it's going to get close to or overcome btc in value?  If that happens, then what happens to the price of btc?  Are we supposed to assume that msc is the new thing now?
> 
> Sorry if this is a lot of questions, but how is it different from btc in terms of how it works, and what makes you think it's going to get bigger?




Mastercoin is not a new "alt coin"; you can better think of it as an additional *color coding* of bitcoin.


As a metaphor, if this is Bitcoin:




This is Mastercoin:




Both $20 face value.



I'm still coming to understand the project myself... its quite complex and multi layered.... its not just "gold backed bitcoin" or "commodity backed bitcoin"; but something bigger.


I've sent PM's to the dev team to help me further comprehend the project... I'll post updates as I become more familiar.  Until then I suggest you read the whitepaper

https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec





> Our claims are built on the following assumptions:
> 
> Alternate block chains [ALT COINS] compete with bitcoins financially, confuse  our message to the world, and dilute our efforts. These barriers  interfere with the adoption momentum of bitcoin and the adoption  momentum of alternate currencies as well, regardless of how  well-conceived their rules may be.New protocol layers on top of the bitcoin protocol will increase  bitcoin values, consolidate our message to the world, and concentrate  our efforts, while still allowing individuals and groups to issue new  currencies with experimental new rules. The success of any experimental  currency protocol layer will enhance the value and success of the  foundational bitcoin protocol.Getting consensus and widespread adoption from the bitcoin community  is not needed to add protocol layers, since no changes to the  foundational bitcoin protocol are required.*Tiny bitcoin transactions can be encoded into the block chain to support and represent transactions in higher protocol layers.*A protocol can pay for its own software development, “bootstrapping”  itself into existence, utilizing a trusted entity to hold funds and  hire developers.It is possible to create tools to allow end users to create currency  protocol layers which have a stable value, pegged to an external  currency or commodity. In this way, users of these currencies can own  stabilized virtual currency tied to U.S. Dollars, Euros, ounces of gold,  barrels of oil, etc.It is possible for users of these new currencies to exchange between  currencies with each other using simple rules and* no central exchange.* [ie no need for btc-e, gox, huobi, etc.]





> MasterCoin is a new protocol layer on top of bitcoin which adds
> 
>  features  for improved security, 
> distributed exchange between bitcoins and coins  on higher protocol layers, 
> distributed betting on real-world stuff,
>   user-created currencies and property tokens, 
> and even user-created  currencies which track real-world values like the price of an ounce of  gold.






> *If you've been living under a rock*, you may not know that
> 
> *we recently  raised nearly 5000 BTC to build*
> 
>  a new protocol layer on top of bitcoin.  The new layer is NOT an alt-chain currency - it's built right on top of  bitcoin, and is called "MasterCoin"






> I am VERY excited to announce that I now have a complete specification  for building a protocol layer on top of bitcoin (like how HTTP runs on  top of TCP/IP).  [check this link for more on HTTP vs TCP/IP to understand the metaphor]
> 
> The coins of the new layer have
> 
> Additional security features to make your money much harder to stealBuilt-in support for a distributed currency exchangeBuilt-in support for distributed betting (no need to trust a website to coordinate bets)Built-in  support for "smart property" which can be used to create and transfer  property such as titles, deeds, or stock in a companyCapability  to hold a stable user-defined value, such as an ounce of gold or U.S.  Dollar, with no need to trust a person promising to back up that value 
> 
> This  is a significant improvement over anything we've had before, including  colored coins. This protocol has been my life's work for over two years  now, and you can finally get a piece of it today!






> Want more details? 
> 
> Readthe complete MasterCoin specification here: https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/specWatch  this video of my explaining MasterCoin to the bitangels investor group,  in which I use screen-sharing to explain MasterCoin and demonstrate  what it could already do at that time (we've come a long way since): https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3nI...it?usp=sharing"Let's talk Bitcoin" has an episode in which they interview me about MasterCoin: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/e37-meeting-mastercoin/ (my segment is towards the end)We now have a wiki with a FAQ: http://wiki.mastercoin.org/index.php?title=FAQ 
> 
> 
> About me:
> 
> I've been a software engineer for over 10 years. Here's my LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jrwillett (connect with me!)I've  been pushing for new bitcoin protocol layers since 2011. Here's a video  of me as an expert panelist at the Bitcoin Conference in San Jose in  May, talking about this idea (I'm the second guy from the left): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qdr_Z3hrqQ 
> 
> ...

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## muh_roads

Looks like I can exit that nmc position soon.  you still in presence?

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## presence

> Looks like I can exit that nmc position soon.  you still in presence?


Yes... I'm still holding.  I'm going to give up on the day trade gig next few days, busy w/ life... waiting on that last pop of LTC before exiting to fiat.  I'm sensing we're @ 23.6 charting forward at about a half percent average gain daily until LTC pops up for 5%... then begins its post bubble deflation. 

best of luck... read up on MSC.  Lemme know what you think.

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## PaulConventionWV

As far as I can tell, MSC is the same thing as bitcoin, except with added features that allow it to be traded without a third party, right?  That's pretty neat considering the fact that it eliminates exchange fees and trusting a third party.  I'm still not sure what its prospects are, however, or what the upward potential is.  I'm also kind of apprehensive about the effect it could have on the value of regular btc, so I must say I'm torn right now.

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## muh_roads

After reading that whole thing about Mastercoin I still don't understand it.  It sounds like they are being cryptic on purpose with the so-called usefulness of extra protocol layers and giving props to Bitcoin to appear friendly to the community.  They have yet to give a real world example of its use.  Although I have yet to watch the videos.




> MasterCoins were created by sending bitcoins to the Exodus Address   during the month of August 2013. That fundraiser is now over, and *anyone   wishing to buy MasterCoins will have to purchase them from an early   adopter.*


Yuck.  Feels like a premine.

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## muh_roads

http://bildr.no/image/ZFowYlNi.jpeg

Predictions for $10K & $100K

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## presence

As expected....


Huobi, the market volume leader has now entered a very tight consolidation;

BTC is now 4355y holding very steady.

Here are 4 hour candles, and 3 minute candles below

----------


## presence

The "expectation" is a short and quick 5% gain at the tip of consolidation as the bulls make their last run...  followed by reversal of trend and then 60 days of steady decline.  


This is a consolidation however and "the way it breaks" ; up/down is much more difficult to predict than the fact that it "would consolidate" after despair.  


So you really want to watch your charts; especially huobi right now.  




It would be from this place we could 

1) most likely 5% up short then ... 40% down over 60 days

2) regain momentum and enter "double top" of 7500y (unlikely)

3) make an unlikely, yet plausible 30% short gain over 24 hours back to 5200y area.



odds:

1) 85%; my expectation

2) 5% highly doubtful

3) 10%; could happen if there is enough enthusiasm.

----------


## presence

message sent to btce support; ticket opened:





> RE: Please consider mBTC notation of trading pairs
> 
> Пожалуйста, обратите внимание mBTC обозначения торговых пар
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## presence

> Looks like I can exit that nmc position soon.  you still in presence?




Approaching 00800

----------


## muh_roads

> Approaching 00800


**high-five**

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The "expectation" is a short and quick 5% gain at the tip of consolidation as the bulls make their last run...  followed by reversal of trend and then 60 days of steady decline.  
> 
> 
> This is a consolidation however and "the way it breaks" ; up/down is much more difficult to predict than the fact that it "would consolidate" after despair.  
> 
> 
> So you really want to watch your charts; especially huobi right now.  
> 
> 
> ...


You lost me at the last part, 85%, 5%, and 10%... of what?  How is 85% your expectation while 5% is highly doubtful?

----------


## presence

> **high-five**


I just exited NMC @ 00782 for roughly 20% gain (bought in in USD... so its a rough gain)

----------


## presence

> You lost me at the last part, 85%, 5%, and 10%... of what?  How is 85% your expectation while 5% is highly doubtful?


sorry...


I was saying option 1 was 8.5 in 10 odds

option 2 was 1/2 in 10 odds

option 3 was 1 in 10 odds


follow?

sorry bout confusion.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

So you're saying there are 85% odds of a 5% 24 hour increase followed by a 40% decrease?

----------


## presence

Litecoin begins interacting with long support
*
0316 ltc/btc bottom?*

----------


## presence

> So you're saying there are 85% odds of a 5% 24 hour increase followed by a 40% decrease?


That's what I'm banking on.   40% decrease will be over the course of 60 days

----------


## muh_roads

> I just exited NMC @ 00782 for roughly 20% gain (bought in in USD... so its a rough gain)


Almost slept in it.

out 00769

----------


## fatjohn

So you don't expect a new low (below 2120 on Huobi)? 

I would expect the price to bottom between 375 and 100 on MtGox, based on other months long downtrends of the 2011 and april 2013 bubbles.

----------


## newbitech

MasterCoin looks like the first attempt to implement exactly what I have already described.  Except the big glaring problem, also exactly as I have described, is the attempt to stack layers on top of BTC protocol.  MasterCoin functionality is perfect, and should be built inside a brand new protocol core. 

I also completely disagree with the following assumption,




> New protocol layers on top of the bitcoin protocol will increase bitcoin values, consolidate our message to the world, and concentrate our efforts, while still allowing individuals and groups to issue new currencies with experimental new rules. The success of any experimental currency protocol layer will enhance the value and success of the foundational bitcoin protocol.


No they won't.  New protocol layers that are designed to 


> Will fix the two biggest barriers to widespread bitcoin adoption: instability and insecurity.


simply mask those problems in the core.  It does't fix them.  

The author of this software is probably highly vested in the original protocol, but understands as I do the problems that will eventually crash the value.  He will be unable to place these repairs to the protocol into the core, since that would require a hard forking of the block chain, which is why he invented "the Exodus" block for MasterCoin. 

This was the next best thing to a hard fork.  This begs the question, if the crypto dev community has raised 5k BTC to implement security layers in this fashion (embedding a pseudo fork patch inside the original block chain data),  is the original protocol really worth what people are paying for it?  

I don't think so.  

I think people are actually paying for the wrong thing.  The nature of open source software is that it may be replicated by anyone (copy paste attribute source) and improved upon. 

BTC protocol has become brittle to this approach.  BTC protocol because the financial investment into some arbitrary iteration (version 0.5) of that protocol has become closed sourced.  Or semi-closed source.  

Meaning, no new iterations of the block-chain implementation, when it in fact is the blockchain itself which needs the most improvement.  

I think of it this way, BTC as a complete vehicle for financial freedom is like a model-T.  It's such a great improvement over horse drawn carriage.  But, yeah, I think you get the point.

MasterCoin is a layer that's like trying to drop a hemi into a model T.  Good luck with that.

----------


## muh_roads

> and should be built inside a brand new protocol core.


It was already attempted and it failed.

----------


## presence

> Almost slept in it.
> 
> out 00769


seems we both shorted ourselves


00821 this morning

----------


## presence

> So you don't expect a new low (below 2120 on Huobi)? 
> 
> I would expect the price to bottom between 375 and 100 on MtGox, based on other months long downtrends of the 2011 and april 2013 bubbles.



no... I don't expect a new low; this last bounce was not "dead cat" IMHO


Are you lead dev for Mastercoin?   or just same avatar?

----------


## presence

And so the final bull run before the bear market begins:

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Is LTC/BTC going to reverb?  If so, I'm going to try to sell high.

----------


## presence

> Is LTC/BTC going to reverb?  If so, I'm going to try to sell high.


NMC and PPC just both pumped for 70%+ gains on weak fundamentals over 48 hours.


The 48 hour dollar volume for both combined is EQUAL to the LTCusd volume in the past 3 hours.


I'm holding LTC... 2 days.


I don't think we're looking at a "5%" gain anymore...



The market and trollbox is wild with speculation right now.  



We could easily see $30/ltc or more in the next 48 hours if the buying frenzy with the lesser alts carries over.



I'm gaining confidence we will see 0400 ltcbtc by midnight EST today.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> NMC and PPC just both pumped for 70%+ gains on weak fundamentals over 48 hours.
> 
> 
> The 48 hour dollar volume for both combined is EQUAL to the LTCusd volume in the past 3 hours.
> 
> 
> I'm holding LTC... 2 days.


What about BTC?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> What about BTC?



bitcoin is always the "safer" bet... LTC is like leveraged trading.  If you're not watching your crypto and don't have time for it... then BTC.... If you're willing to take greater risk... LTC...  If you want that crazy rise and crazy risk... NMC... but I wouldn't touch NMC right now... you can get it for $4 tomorrow.  NMC and PPC are "done" LTC and BTC still have room to grow.

----------


## muh_roads

> seems we both shorted ourselves
> 
> 
> 00821 this morning


yeah...damnit.  0094.  Can't complain about taking profits though.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> bitcoin is always the "safer" bet... LTC is like leveraged trading.  If you're not watching your crypto and don't have time for it... then BTC.... If you're willing to take greater risk... LTC...  If you want that crazy rise and crazy risk... NMC... but I wouldn't touch NMC right now... you can get it for $4 tomorrow.  NMC and PPC are "done" LTC and BTC still have room to grow.


I just got locked out of my coinbase account for 24 hours.  Where do you think BTC will be by then?

----------


## presence

> I just got locked out of my coinbase account for 24 hours.  Where do you think BTC will be by then?


I suspect it will work out to your fortune 

No option to panic sell on the way up!

Be sure to get back online to cash out at the top, I think we have 36 more hours of BTC gains ahead of us... but time is much more difficult to quantify than are price points. 

I don't think we will see $1000 BTC again... but I wouldn't be surprised if your BTC is worth 10% more tomorrow.

----------


## presence

Along the same lines as Mastercoin




> What is Link? 				Link is an open source protocol for 					embedding data in the blockchain of Crypto-currencies.
>  				Why would you want to do that? 				Crypto-currencies like Bitcoin have a 					number of useful properties which Link exploits:
> 
> The blockchain is built on a 							peer-to-peer network which makes broadcasting of data far and 							wide easy to accomplish.The blockchain is verified by 							all the participants in the network, meaning data embedded within 							it cannot become corrupted.The blockchain is used as a 							record of account, so it already has existing utility, meaning 							it's less likely to be censored.The act of embedding data in the 							blockchain via the Link protocol requires users to spend their 							coins, meaning there's a cost associated with publishing.
>   				By building on these foundational 					properties, Link allows anyone to publish data in a way that is 					effectively anonymous, and will be very hard to censor, yet easy to 					find.
>  				Does it destroy coins? 				Yes. Every publish requires spending to 					addresses for which the private key isn't known. This causes 					further deflation of the currency, making the existing coins more 					valuable.
>  				But won't this bloat the 					blockchain? 				While the blockchain will increase in size 					with every piece of data published, because the coins are being 					destroyed, they can never move again. This means they will never 					generate another transaction to increase the size of the 					blockchain. Any cost in size is paid once and never again, as 					opposed to when coins transfer ownership and will subsequently 					generate more transaction. If the blockchain was only used for this 					purpose, there would be an upper limit on the blockchain size, as 					opposed to the present assumption that it will grow forever. So 					while adding data to the blockchain will increase the size of it, 					it can't possibly increase it more than sending coins around.


http://blockchain-link.com/#faq

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I suspect it will work out to your fortune 
> 
> No option to panic sell on the way up!
> 
> Be sure to get back online to cash out at the top, I think we have 36 more hours of BTC gains ahead of us... but time is much more difficult to quantify than are price points. 
> 
> I don't think we will see $1000 BTC again... but I wouldn't be surprised if your BTC is worth 10% more tomorrow.


And by "again", I assume you mean "before the looming 40% decline".

----------


## Aldanga

> Along the same lines as Mastercoin
> 
> http://blockchain-link.com/#faq


I've been following Kevlar (the dev) as he's been writing this. If people are interested in seeing how things came together, check out [Kickstart] Link - The File Sharing Blockchain Protocol on the Feathercoin forums, as well as [ANN] Link - The Blockchain File Sharing Protocol for the original announcement thread. It's some really fascinating stuff. zerodrama is also working on an extension of Link titled FLUX, which is itself a whole other beast and pretty awesome if it comes to fruition.

----------


## muh_roads

> I don't think we will see $1000 BTC again


Sure we will, just not until after Spring.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Sure we will, just not until after Spring.


Yep, last call for cheap coins. Plan accordingly peeps.

----------


## presence

> And by "again", I assume you mean "before the looming 40% decline".




yes... of course we'll see $1000 at some point... but 40% down from here... I'm not as confident in further continuation of our bull run.  I'm in fiat.  The rise was too much too fast... and the lack of the pop in LTC?   that was davidpate liquidating.

He's 80k ppc deep now and the rest in fiat.  $3m usd of marketshare @ btce


BTC up 7.5% on the day.   LTC up 8.5%.


Bear market down is my estimation.


I'm sleeping in fiat.

----------


## presence

davidpate buying into PPC




BTC post consolidation gaining 7.5% then Bear




LTC post consolidation gaining 8.5% then Bear




BTC was right within the realm of expectations, I was silently hoping for a multiplier effect by holding LTC... but by the time I realized davidpate had moved his cards... I was stuck holding a 5% gain on the day.


bummer?


Absolutely crazy 24 hour gain in PPC tho as davidpate shifted his holdings.

----------


## lotsOfCake

huobi btccny and mtgox usd are diverging !?

----------


## muh_roads

> yes... of course we'll see $1000 at some point... but 40% down from here... I'm not as confident in further continuation of our bull run.  I'm in fiat.  The rise was too much too fast... and the lack of the pop in LTC?   that was davidpate liquidating.
> 
> He's 80k ppc deep now and the rest in fiat.  $3m usd of marketshare @ btce
> 
> 
> BTC up 7.5% on the day.   LTC up 8.5%.
> 
> 
> Bear market down is my estimation.
> ...


I'm using BTC from a small purchase (relative to net) that got stuck at 960.  Since I don't think it will come back for a while, I decided to just use this as my play money in alts.  I can't complain.  Made my first successful swing trade gain in NMC.  This is all, more or less a learning exercise for me.  Day-trading crypto is like training wheels if you aren't worried about the price because you believe it to come back.




> davidpate buying into PPC


Who?

----------


## presence

> Who?


davidpate is a btce trader with a very large bankroll  ($3m USD?) perhaps the largest bankroll @ btce.  Same class of money as fontas; I'm not sure who has more.


davidpate had always held predominately LTC, BTC, and cash until today.  He shifted at least $1m usd into PPC in about 8 hours.

----------


## muh_roads

> davidpate is a btce trader with a very large bankroll... perhaps the largest bankroll.  Same class of money as fontas; I'm not sure who has more.
> 
> 
> davidpate had always held predominately LTC, BTC, and cash until today.  He shifted at least $1m usd into PPC in about 8 hours.


Did he declare he would do this before buying?  I guess I should pay attention to the trollbox more.

----------


## lotsOfCake

pumpers do not declare anything before buying.
One of the methods are:
Buy slowly while its low, then add huge buy order just under the current price, set a top target, and sell off what you bought at the top. With enough capital, you can define where the top is by pulling your buy support when you're done. You can rinse-and-repeat by buying at the bottom of the trap you just made.

I don't think davidpate is doing this. I think he is just being rational and selling off when he thinks it will be a bear market.

Edit: also, you need insane capital to pull that off with LTC, its market cap being in the hundreds of millions (probably less in reality if you were to sell a large amount in one go, but still, a lot!)

Edit2: they announce around the same time that they add a "support" buy wall under the current price, after having bought in.

----------


## muh_roads

https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?a...=btc&locale=en




> *Earn interest on BTC, LTC and PPC account balances*

----------


## muh_roads

presence, thoughts on Unobtanium? 250K supply cap.  Could it possibly reach BTC parity before collapsing?

----------


## Dianne

> https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?a...=btc&locale=en


I've never opened an account at vircurex.  Do you remember them for USA customers?     Or is coinbase still the easiest way to get fiat dollars into crypto?

----------


## fatjohn

> no... I don't expect a new low; this last bounce was not "dead cat" IMHO
> 
> 
> Are you lead dev for Mastercoin?   or just same avatar?


Hah, I assume someone else uses the same monkey on another forum. No I have nothing to do with mastercoin.

I used the monkey before it was cool though.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> yes... of course we'll see $1000 at some point... but 40% down from here... I'm not as confident in further continuation of our bull run.  I'm in fiat.  The rise was too much too fast... and the lack of the pop in LTC?   that was davidpate liquidating.
> 
> He's 80k ppc deep now and the rest in fiat.  $3m usd of marketshare @ btce
> 
> 
> BTC up 7.5% on the day.   LTC up 8.5%.
> 
> 
> Bear market down is my estimation.
> ...


I hope it stays up until about 6pm tonight.  That's when I get back into my coinbase account.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Do you see any major bear movements soon or is it all supposed to be slow and gradual?  I want to sell at around 800 if I can.

----------


## presence

> Do you see any major bear movements soon or is it all supposed to be slow and gradual?  I want to sell at around 800 if I can.


The correction of yesterday's final bull run was fierce...  As fast as it went up, it came back down.  From here forward I expect slow capitulation over the coming month.  3% daily loss.  

btce 787 last.  I don't expect to see 800 again. 

Be thankful you were in BTC and not LTC... LTC has already corrected below pre bull run consolidation point.  

btce 5m =

"Descending Scallops"



Next touchdown near 770-765

might bounce back up near 785 level


best of luck



if it makes you feel any better... my internet got knocked out while making a short play during a bull trap in the PPC decline last night.   I had to sell for a loss when I came back online... good thing tho... I lost 2% on bank... had I not got back online I'd be down over 6% now.  

PPCusd down to $6.5 last

----------


## presence

> I want to sell at around 800 if I can.


oooh... I'm catching a scent of "head and shoulders" forming a fat right shoulder... you might get your 800 after all.  Don't be hasty in your dump.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The correction of yesterday's final bull run was fierce...  As fast as it went up, it came back down.  From here forward I expect slow capitulation over the coming month.  3% daily loss.  
> 
> btce 787 last.  I don't expect to see 800 again. 
> 
> Be thankful you were in BTC and not LTC... LTC has already corrected below pre bull run consolidation point.  
> 
> btce 5m =
> 
> "Descending Scallops"
> ...


Yeah, I really made out on LTC considering these prices.  Ended up with over half a BTC more than I started with.  I just got my account back, so it looks like I'm going to end up with a pretty good gain after all.  Sending the BTC right now and going to sleep in fiat.

EDIT: Just sold.

----------


## presence

Paul I hope you get access to your coins soon... window of opportunity knocks

796

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Paul I hope you get access to your coins soon... window of opportunity knocks
> 
> 796


I just got out.  Thanks, presence.  I couldn't have done it without your advice.

----------


## presence

> I just got out.  Thanks, presence.  I couldn't have done it without your advice.


Don't get caught in indecision or a bull trap... even if price seems to want to move up... rest assured a 3 or 4% gain is not worth the coming capitulation.

If you zoom in on that yellow dot



we could get a thin wick of bullishness today or tormorrow... 

I'm not messing with it.   Best profit on expected historical green candles... not speculation on thin wicks


Much bigger gains to be had by being patient;  30 days from now will be a different ball game.  


Best move, walk away... come back in a week

----------


## Dianne

> Don't get caught in indecision or a bull trap... even if price seems to want to move up... rest assured a 3 or 4% gain is not worth the coming capitulation.
> 
> If you zoom in on that yellow dot
> 
> http://i42.tinypic.com/29da9ur.png
> 
> we could get a thin wick of bullishness today or tormorrow... 
> 
> I'm not messing with it. 
> ...


litepresence, you remind me of the nightly weatherman...   You keep all your options open.. Possibility of rain, possibility it might not ... 50/50 chance ... we may see a few snow flurries, but we may not.   Tune in tomorrow for the most current forecast...  50/50 chance, we may see rain but may not; we may see snow flurries, but we may not.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Don't get caught in indecision or a bull trap... even if price seems to want to move up... rest assured a 3 or 4% gain is not worth the coming capitulation.
> 
> If you zoom in on that yellow dot
> 
> 
> 
> we could get a thin wick of bullishness today or tormorrow... 
> 
> I'm not messing with it.   Best profit on expected historical green candles... not speculation on thin wicks
> ...


From your chart, it looks like we should be in full scale bear mode a week from now.  Didn't you say the decline would last about 60 days?

----------


## presence

> litepresence, you remind me of the nightly weatherman...   You keep all your options open.. Possibility of rain, possibility it might not ... 50/50 chance ... we may see a few snow flurries, but we may not.   Tune in tomorrow for the most current forecast...  50/50 chance, we may see rain but may not; we may see snow flurries, but we may not.




I'm a "day trader" in that I play shorts... things move up and down with the passing winds; it takes a keen sense, a sharp shot, and well lubricated sponge.   No way you can accurately forecast short movements...  you can only "play them".   What can be projected is "the stages of a bubble" ; like the stages of a bubble... the "stage after a bubble" and the "stage between bubbles" has a common form









RE: China Bubble

Takeoff Selloff 1st Beartrap... CHECK
media Attention Enthusiasm CHECK
greed delusion new paradigm CHECK
Denial Bull trap Return to Normal CHECK
Fear Capitulation Despair  CHECK



Return to the mean CHECK


Bitcoin's "mean", by the way, is about 00.6% daily since it came into being; all the way back to when you could get a pizza for 10,000 bitcoin.



When the "classic bubble" is over... nobody talks much about the next part... 



"red dragons red dragons" are my favorite part tho... lemme make you a pic of how the rest of the story goes 


brb




Phase 1

"slingshot past the mean"

----------


## presence

The rise and fall yesterday and today... going into tomorrow... we're at "final run of the bulls".


the image may go off the edge of your screen so you might have to right click view image, etc....

I'll stir up a better quality situation when I have a chance

----------


## presence

"right click view image" to see what goes off side of screen

----------


## presence

some other less likely possibilities post bubble:


less likely... because the honey bee "wants" to get back to the hive. 







sorry for poor image quality... I'm not sure whats up w/ my image editor right now... /frustrated





Lemme explain some of the image above... so I think we're currently at "final run of the bulls" phase of the bubble...

final run of the bulls should turn into "red dragons" as we head back down from this parallel of the mean we've found through post despair consolidation....

to the mean itself.



OPTION B:


final run of the bulls could ALSO turn instead into a 3rd tier... a 3rd consolidation... and then another "final run of the bulls"  though smaller in scale before breaking down into red dragons.   The run will be smaller... tighter; less margin, less gain than this last run.



OPTION C:

At any given point... this is a high risk investment vehicle...  It could all go to hell.   

Various things could manifest this... Large spread attack or vulnerability at an exchange for example...  Mass goverment criminalization globally.... etc. etc.

I'd like to think this won't happen... It could also stop short of hell and simply cause a bubble inverse to the mean... And at some point BTC will reach its max and that is exactly what will happen... we'll see a bubble inverse to the mean form.



OPTION D:

At various locations of consolidation or whiplash we could be launched by "new money" into a "double top"  or out of this universe 



You want to watch the support an resistance linear lines in post 104 for confirmation of any of these alternative routes.

----------


## presence

> presence, thoughts on Unobtanium? 250K supply cap.  Could it possibly reach BTC parity before collapsing?


100% speculator collect-ability factor...

Its dev is clean.  No premine... No reason Mitt Romney wouldn't accept it as a running mate 


Keep your eyes on it, I ran it for some gains when it first hit cryptsy in IPO style last week.  Took fair returns... could have done better if I was in BEFORE it got to crytsy...  I would have 10X on my money in one day.   

I rode for 20% gain in the whiplash and gtfo


If Unobtainium hits a major exchange... 

PARITY quick and easy.


If...

It may never get past cryptsy.

But definately a coin to hold on the day it breaks to a new exchange.  


People^2 = Price^2

----------


## presence

This of course brings up the subject of where can you buy coins BEFORE they hit cryptsy

bitcointalk alt coins forum is the best place to find out about new coins and its worth your time to check in there daily.


I'll post some links to lesser exchanges that pick up pre cryptsy coins here.   Often they are traded pre cryptsy however on google spreadsheets through agents which hold both parties money and act like a broker; missing the right word... I'll edit 

Unobtainium, had I noticed it would have been an excellent run to get on this past month.  There will be more.

----------


## lotsOfCake

Litepresence: awesome graphs as always! Even the hand drawn one.

I wonder what the Winklevoss twins are going to do over the next two months.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I wonder what the Winklevoss twins are going to do over the next two months.


The BTC Spartan General-Bulls hold for the bigger picture on the flip side as they had the most foresight to understand how top shelf BTC would become early-early on. Short-term corrections are the price of doing business in this game. I may play around w/ a coin or two but I never cash in my satchel for a short-term gain and then start over. I couldn't sleep at night. That said, I'm a small fry in the overall ecosystem.

----------


## XTreat

Presense I am pretty sure you are a genius and I will be following this closely, 

question, when you go to fiat, do you cash out to your checking through Coinbase or just sit in dollars on BTC-e?

----------


## presence



----------


## lotsOfCake

made a buy order spread to see if i can catch some of that projected knife. if it doesn't come, then no harm done ;-)

----------


## muh_roads

> The BTC Spartan General-Bulls hold for the bigger picture on the flip side as they had the most foresight to understand how top shelf BTC would become early-early on. Short-term corrections are the price of doing business in this game. I may play around w/ a coin or two but I never cash in my satchel for a short-term gain and then start over. I couldn't sleep at night. That said, I'm a small fry in the overall ecosystem.


You'll be a large fry to most people soon enough.  And those small fries  starting will become large fries to others...and so on.  When your  competition is the retardation that is the US Dollar, it is pretty easy  to win with Bitcoin long-term.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> You'll be a large fry to most people soon enough.  And those small fries starting will become large fries to others...and so on.  When your competition is the retardation that is the US Dollar, it is pretty easy to win with Bitcoin long-term.


I like playing with the idea of "what happens when an entire fiat currency jumps over to crypto" - rampant devaluation at the end ? Might happen in a small african or south american country.

----------


## muh_roads

> I like playing with the idea of "what happens when an entire fiat currency jumps over to crypto" - rampant devaluation at the end ? Might happen in a small african or south american country.


You're talking about $1m-5m per BTC by the time it comes to that.  Winklevii are talking $40K.  There is a point where currency does become worthless no matter what you hold in an area of non-food abundance.

If we're ever that lucky, smart BTC'ers will have already expatriated to the Galt's Gulch Seastead.

Trade agreements and central banks sucked away our livelihoods.  I say it is time to suck it back.

http://fiatleak.com/

----------


## muh_roads

That's a hard drop with little volume on the last leg down.  What does that mean?  BTC-e has an abundance of NMC?





>

----------


## presence

> That's a hard drop with little volume on the last leg down.  What does that mean?  BTC-e has an abundance of NMC?




well... didn't break down... broke up to 7.7 level; I slept in open orders last night centered @ 6.1... Still holding fiat; oh well... no shame.    


I don't chase green candles... so I'll just have to wait for another opportunity.



More on what may have "caused" this break upward in the post below:

----------


## presence



----------


## btcltc

Why do you think by the end of january, coins will be at a 40% loss?
Are you referring to the chinese business regulation?

----------


## presence

The second top on the last tier of huobi has now breached resistance high of 4915.... An eye should be kept on this as... resistance at this level is what holds the 12h chart back from "double top" @ 7500y-8000y...  A fairly unlikely possibility... but one of the few instances where "chasing green candles" would be advised.



Watch that huobi chart... and that breach of resistance at the third peak since despair.

----------


## presence

> Why do you think by the end of january, coins will be at a 40% loss?
> Are you referring to the chinese business regulation?



See image in post 103 and 105. 


Post bubble... price "tends" to return to what I like to call "the hive" which, in the case of BTC, is the long mean of 0.6% daily... 


The slingshot effect after despair launches price to a parallel above the mean... I expect 30% loss to get us slowly back down to the long trend.



However Huobi (the market leader) is showing very bullish tendencies in the third tier of growth since despair with its "double top" tapping resistance.


This could be a wild card... it could push price to another tier of growth... it could also break us out to a double top of the whole 12h "china bubble".

----------


## presence

Huobi 4940


This is well beyond resistance; a significant breach of normalizing tendency at the mean post despair.   



There is "new money" 


????????

----------


## lotsOfCake

If this is what it looks like, and if i had to make a decision before a long chinese vacation, i would buy in. And I would buy in before the others buy in.

Also, the Zynga news.

Exciting times!

Also, yeah, I made entirely the wrong bets last night... lost a potential 4% gain from then until now :<

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Time to go backwards in time and dig up a chart I posted a while back before the Christmas Crash.... lemme find it!

----------


## presence



----------


## lotsOfCake

So just heard rumors about Netflix considering BTC as a payment option. - Netflix being one of the best investments of 2013.

Major bull rush with new money ? How will monday markets open? :-D

----------


## presence

White dot is where we "are" 


The most "normal" thing to happen would be to bypass  E and G ...


and go directly from the white spot to F then H


By breaching resistance @ the white spot.... we're considering the run to "E".



"A double top"


I'm still not on board... 100%... I got burned banking on this unlikely possibility in April.

----------


## lotsOfCake

watching huobi. concave fail on 1m, but still looking strong on 5m 15m 30m
that's here: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/huobi/btccny

----------


## lotsOfCake

presence, if we are going double top, whats your best guess to how high it goes before the drop ?

----------


## btcltc

> See image in post 103 and 105. 
> 
> 
> Post bubble... price "tends" to return to what I like to call "the hive" which, in the case of BTC, is the long mean of 0.6% daily... 
> 
> 
> The slingshot effect after despair launches price to a parallel above the mean... I expect 30% loss to get us slowly back down to the long trend.
> 
> 
> ...


OK..
i was thinking into depositing around 2500-3000 dollars into an altcoin till the end of january and try to earn me some dollars. Maybe ltc or nmc.
do you think its a bad idea?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Presense I am pretty sure you are a genius and I will be following this closely, 
> 
> question, when you go to fiat, do you cash out to your checking through Coinbase or just sit in dollars on BTC-e?


Probably the only way to day-trade with dollars would be on btc-e.  You have to wait for about a week to get either your coins or your money when you use coinbase, whether you're buying or selling.  Coinbase doesn't let you make orders, either.  They make the orders for you and set the prices based on where the market is.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> OK..
> i was thinking into depositing around 2500-3000 dollars into an altcoin till the end of january and try to earn me some dollars. Maybe ltc or nmc.
> do you think its a bad idea?


If you want to be safe, it looks like you should wait until the end of January to buy in... but don't take my word for it.  I'm new.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

The 1m chart shows the "bull/bear" balance, in the here an now.  It is a very good indicator of what will happen in the long chart in coming weeks.  Right now, in the microcosm... on the tip of our last parabolic movement up... we've chosen to chart DOWN support... rather than UP resistance.


Bearish Signal overwhelms the earlier break of resistance in the "third tier", which it seems, will be reduced to no more than an over exuberant "final bull run"... the chinese market is crazy like that right now; nothing in moderation.   Regardless they lead the dance... this is their bubble.   Lead, follow, or get out of the way 





I took NMC for a short gain of less than 1 %, after fees, in that volatility... makes up for similar sized losses the other day when I lost my internet connection at a bad time.  




Now I get the hell out of the way of this coming train wreck!



fiat or cry

----------


## muh_roads

> well... didn't break down... broke up to 7.7 level; I slept in open orders last night centered @ 6.1... Still holding fiat; oh well... no shame.    
> 
> 
> I don't chase green candles... so I'll just have to wait for another opportunity.
> 
> 
> 
> More on what may have "caused" this break upward in the post below:


I'm really annoyed at myself for playing that wrong.  I should be playing NMC like I play BTC.  Small ins and outs at a time.  You had me convinced that 008 was the best we were going to see for a while.

I do agree with you that it has been too good for too long though.  Oh well.  Every day is a new opportunity.

----------


## presence

> I'm really annoyed at myself for playing that wrong.  I should be playing NMC like I play BTC.  Small ins and outs at a time.  You had me convinced that 008 was the best we were going to see for a while.
> 
> I do agree with you that it has been too good for too long though.  Oh well.  Every day is a new opportunity.




I'm quite intrigued myself... we're seeing a very bullish backside of a bubble...  


At some point we must return to the mean... seems the path will be littered with very tall bull traps on the way down.  


Lots of good short play to be had.

----------


## presence

gox and huobi


defying my expectations we are breaking out bullish again on the 5m in huobi

----------


## presence

Huobi 5000

----------


## XTreat

> Probably the only way to day-trade with dollars would be on btc-e.  You have to wait for about a week to get either your coins or your money when you use coinbase, whether you're buying or selling.  Coinbase doesn't let you make orders, either.  They make the orders for you and set the prices based on where the market is.


You can make your coinbase account instant by meeting enough criteria. I was actually asking how secure you think it is to leave money in BTC-e.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You can make your coinbase account instant by meeting enough criteria. I was actually asking how secure you think it is to leave money in BTC-e.


I'm no expert on the subject, but I prefer not to leave money on any exchange for too long.

----------


## XTreat

> I'm no expert on the subject, but I prefer not to leave money on any exchange for too long.


Yeah but it cost to make the extra transfers, I guess it risk/reward like everything else.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah but it cost to make the extra transfers, I guess it risk/reward like everything else.


Yeah.  It doesn't cost much.  You just have to factor that into the risk/reward like you said and make sure you cover the spread when cashing out.

----------


## Dianne

So, should we be buying or selling?

----------


## lotsOfCake

every time i see a long long uptrend then a sharp fall. like btc right now. i think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOOs8MaR1YM

----------


## lotsOfCake

it passed. huobi seems bullish around this time of day.

----------


## presence

ok... charts incoming... but 

WTF????




We have have breached all forms of reasonable resistance during post bubble, post despair consolidation to the mean.  

The only reasonable place for the chart to head from here is the ever elusive "double top"

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

In the above image we see a breech of linear resistance during post despair consolidation.   


This is what happened to the S&P 500 when it did the same in 2006:

----------


## presence



----------


## XTreat

I stayed in BTC overnight, glad I did, what happens after the double top?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Wow.  Figures I would cash out before a freaking double top.  It has to return to the mean sometime, but I would have had a lot more to play with if I had waited...

----------


## muh_roads

> Wow.  Figures I would cash out before a freaking double top.  It has to return to the mean sometime, but I would have had a lot more to play with if I had waited...


If more good news keeps coming out though, cashing out might have been a really bad idea if we're heading to a new paradigm already with a new bottom support levels.

For some reason I feel the train leaving the station again.

----------


## dannno

> Wow.  Figures I would cash out before a freaking double top.  It has to return to the mean sometime, but I would have had a lot more to play with if I had waited...


That's why I only $#@! around with a small percentage of my investment.. I'm in it for the long haul, though I don't mind providing some liquidity here and selling when it's overvalued there if it increases my overall investment, or for entertainment purposes.

----------


## lotsOfCake

just watched a sell wall of over 5000 ltc being eaten up at 26.3.
davidpate probably.
Volume 100000. Hoping it breaks through. when LTC flies it tends to fly real far.

Disclaimer: i have absolutely no idea what will happen next. :1

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Somebody tell me this is going back down.

----------


## muh_roads

> Somebody tell me this is going back down.


Yes.  it'll drop back down to $2500 after reaching $10K  

This market can't be predicted.  Bitcoin honey badger don't give a $#@!.

----------


## presence

> Somebody tell me this is going back down.


IT WILL GO BACK DOWN!!!!

Chart incoming....



BUY 820

----------


## presence

This image might go off the edge of your page... please "right click view image"

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> This image might go off the edge of your page... please "right click view image"


You think it's going to go way down after the last 950 peak?  If so, I might just wait until this is over and buy even lower.  I don't like to day-trade with cash.  I only do long-term swings.

Also, if I bought at 820, that would be higher than I sold at, so I'm a little squeamish.

----------


## lotsOfCake

guys if youre awake
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/okcoin/ltccny
3m

i'm guessing temporarily oversold though so i'm trying not to make like a lemming off a cliff

----------


## Neil Desmond

> Yes.  it'll drop back down to $2500 after reaching $10K  
> 
> This market can't be predicted.  Bitcoin honey badger don't give a $#@!.


Then I shall sell 1 bitcoin when it hits $10k/btc, and buy 4 when it goes back down to $2.5k/btc.

----------


## XTreat

I am going to follow your advice, I sold @ $942 I guess I'll see what it looks like in the AM.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Lots of New money infecting charts, 963+ big. Pres wat u say?

----------


## XTreat

I am really interested to see if this plays out the way Pres is predicting. So far so good.

----------


## nayjevin

I would like to use Bitcoin to buy an item or make a funds transfer.  However it is too volatile, time consuming, unsecure, and technically difficult, for I have spent a mere 10,000 hours learning computers.  Unfortunately its intrinsic value seems to be as a speculation vehicle.  Am I wrong?

----------


## dannno

> I would like to use Bitcoin to buy an item or make a funds transfer.  However it is too volatile, time consuming, unsecure, and technically difficult, for I have spent a mere 10,000 hours learning computers.  Unfortunately its intrinsic value seems to be as a speculation vehicle.  Am I wrong?


The times when the market has peaked above the current market values of the day on any given day are often very short, followed by a relatively swift downward correction followed by a relatively stable upward trend. As long as there hasn't been a huge upward movement in the last few days then if you buy bitcoin, it will probably be more valuable in a few days or weeks. 

If there's something specific you want to buy with bitcoin, then buy the bitcoin and buy the item soon after.

Otherwise I'd wait for a correction and load up on some and then wait for it to become more valuable and you can buy items using your profits. If you can pick some up in the 800s range in the next few days or so that would probably be a good buy. Or maybe there will be a big upward movement with new money and we will never see prices below $1k again, hard to say.

----------


## nayjevin

To save 2.5% over PayPal?  At the risk of having it stolen from me in the process?  I'm just saying widespread adoption may be impossible, and current value speculation may be driven by that hope.  Who wants this product?  Looks to me like it's high level techs who would wait for the next highway exit on 'E' to save .9 cents per gallon.  .00083% of the population?  Oh, + drug kingpins who aren't too stoned to learn the thing.

----------


## dannno

> To save 2.5% over PayPal?  At the risk of having it stolen from me in the process?  I'm just saying widespread adoption may be impossible, and current value speculation may be driven by that hope.  Who wants this product?  Looks to me like it's high level techs who would wait for the next highway exit on 'E' to save .9 cents per gallon.  .00083% of the population?  Oh, + drug kingpins who aren't too stoned to learn the thing.


Wow you really think saving 2.5% over paypal is the reason why bitcoin was invented?

How about the fact that the government cannot counterfeit bitcoin?

----------


## XTreat

> To save 2.5% over PayPal?  At the risk of having it stolen from me in the process?  I'm just saying widespread adoption may be impossible, and current value speculation may be driven by that hope.  Who wants this product?  Looks to me like it's high level techs who would wait for the next highway exit on 'E' to save .9 cents per gallon.  .00083% of the population?  Oh, + drug kingpins who aren't too stoned to learn the thing.


The great thing about a free market currency is you can choose not to use it.

----------


## nayjevin

> Wow you really think saving 2.5% over paypal is the reason why bitcoin was invented?
> 
> How about the fact that the government cannot counterfeit bitcoin?


I like the idea of that, I'm not commenting on what the intentions are.  But reality right now is that the supply of Cryptos is infinitely inflatable.  The price of my bitcoin is determined by where other people's money goes.  If I'm trading bitcoin, I trade it to USD to ensure 'stability' of my investment LOL

Price of bitcoin = eventual usefulness ( subjective value) + speculated future value.

It may be the best chance to profit (off of whom?) in the world, but it is currently unsuited to be what every coin claims to be.  A way to easily and securely transfer money without fees.  There are huge fees the way most people do it, it is difficult and time consuming, ( time is money) and be careful using it.

'Investing' in it is speculative.  That's fine.  Using it, utility, is fine... go ahead and end up bald if you want to.  Jumping in now is not what it seems to me that people believe it to be.  A chance to be a day trader (fun, cheap, excellent learning experience).  A chance to learn about computers, currency, and security.  Excellent tool for that.  Also a chance to hold and get a good return, or not.  Better, it seems, than many possible places for money, depending on risk factor evaluation (including your ability to resist being superstitious about graphs).

But there are now millions of traders with varying exit points, many of whom don't really believe in btc future.  They are smarter than me.  The prices are where they should be.  Right?

----------


## nayjevin

The other two things I was surprised to learn is that it's not even close to instant and it's the opposite of anonymous.  If the IRS could give cash the properties of bitcoin they would... it's totally trackable.  I originally thought it was an intrinsic value in that kingpins would want to use it.  But metal suitcases are cheaper than fulltime IT's.

So it seems to me for legal people without technical knowledge, PayPal is worth 2.5%.

But I am also pretty sore I didn't get in at $.01.

----------


## muh_roads

> I like the idea of that, I'm not commenting on what the intentions are.  But reality right now is that the supply of Cryptos is infinitely inflatable.  The price of my bitcoin is determined by where other people's money goes.  If I'm trading bitcoin, I trade it to USD to ensure 'stability' of my investment LOL
> 
> Price of bitcoin = eventual usefulness ( subjective value) + speculated future value.
> 
> It may be the best chance to profit (off of whom?) in the world, but it is currently unsuited to be what every coin claims to be.  A way to easily and securely transfer money without fees.  There are huge fees the way most people do it, it is difficult and time consuming, ( time is money) and be careful using it.
> 
> 'Investing' in it is speculative.  That's fine.  Using it, utility, is fine... go ahead and end up bald if you want to.  Jumping in now is not what it seems to me that people believe it to be.  A chance to be a day trader (fun, cheap, excellent learning experience).  A chance to learn about computers, currency, and security.  Excellent tool for that.  Also a chance to hold and get a good return, or not.  Better, it seems, than many possible places for money, depending on risk factor evaluation (including your ability to resist being superstitious about graphs).
> 
> But there are now millions of traders with varying exit points, many of whom don't really believe in btc future.  They are smarter than me.  The prices are where they should be.  Right?


Then worst case scenario is that the surviving alts meet parity with each other.  I think there is enough Quadrillions in the central banker economy to spread among early Bitcoin, early Litecoin and early Namecoin users to make all holders the new elite if the 100% deflationary experiment works.

One of them will survive.  Possibly 5 of them.  Possibly 10 of them.  But most will consolidate and eat each other alive.  The Bitcoin protocol saving 2.5% is actually a very big deal.  Doritos removes a few chips and adds air to save 0.1%.

You can send a billion $$$ to the other side of the world instantly for 9 cents.  You don't find that interesting?  Capital controls can't hold back business anymore.  Sanction lines in the sand mean nothing now.  The utility value of Bitcoin is here to stay.  And if people don't see that they are going to miss a huge boat.

The price will be where it is at because weak hands will be bought by those that understand moving from an inflationary system and into a deflationary system.  Could Bitcoin fatally fail 2-3 years from now in the code?  Possibly.  But that is 3 years from now.  Bitcoin has a 3-4 figure % gain YOY since inception in 2009.  Enjoy the ride and sell when you wish.

The free market will decide whether they find it useful or not.

----------


## dannno

> The other two things I was surprised to learn is that it's not even close to instant and it's the opposite of anonymous.  If the IRS could give cash the properties of bitcoin they would... it's totally trackable.


Ok so the IRS gets records that you bought some coin at coinbase through your bank. 

Then you transfer that to an anonymous wallet. Then another. And another. Where in the transaction log does it say if you are buying something or sending it to yourself? How do they track that? Bitcoin is like the free market in that it can be either anonymous or not anonymous depending on how you use it.

----------


## nayjevin

> Then worst case scenario is that the surviving alts meet parity with each other.  I think there is enough Quadrillions in the central banker economy to spread among early Bitcoin, early Litecoin and early Namecoin users to make all holders the new elite if the 100% deflationary experiment works.


That's a real reason for investment.  My numbers don't come out quite the same.  But what, I'm trying to calculate better than a world of economists who have had a chance to get in, and are saying bitcoin is worth about 1,000 USD, including its value as a speculation instrument?  If I get in now I'm betting I can make my life easier or better using it, or others will, or I can get out at the right time, or PROFIT.  It is only my clear moral superiority which makes the latter so enticing 




> One of them will survive.  Possibly 5 of them.  Possibly 10 of them.  But most will consolidate and eat each other alive.


I am just as certain.  What are your thoughts (anyone's) on the odds of an eventual virtual monopoly, duopoly, etc?  What odds that #1 crypto does not exist?  Odds that eventual #1 released by central bankers and adopted by the masses ala groupon?  These kind of question marks make my prospects of getting out at the right time dubious.




> The Bitcoin protocol saving 2.5% is actually a very big deal.  Doritos removes a few chips and adds air to save 0.1%.


You're right, but btc is open source.  Business that move money around will make proprietary.  So you're still right, but it's not like 'every business will eventually adopt', in terms of investment calculation.




> You can send a billion $$$ to the other side of the world instantly for 9 cents.  You don't find that interesting?


I do.  How often will people need that?  I would guess approximately often enough to make btc worth $1000 right now.  So what am I really betting on?




> Capital controls can't hold back business anymore.  Sanction lines in the sand mean nothing now.  The utility value of Bitcoin is here to stay.


I agree 100%, the utility value is not zero.  But it must be less than the current price, because of illusory speculation.  The intelligence of this market is notably high.  It has determined, all things considered, $1,000.

I guess I'd have to know:  Can btc literally implement any other possible innovation?  Can btc survive central banker's best attempt at competition (plus media frenzy... the msm spam game)?

And the smartest techs and economists in the world think the odds of that make btc worth about 1,000 right now.  Unless they plan to get out at the right time.  Before I see them do it.




> And if people don't see that they are going to miss a huge boat.


BTC just needs to eventually stabilize above $1000 eventually, for the patient.




> Could Bitcoin fatally fail 2-3 years from now in the code?  Possibly.


Really.  Links to people who think it will, please!  Other than the Krug.  And what's this about blockchain bloat?  Transaction times already suck, or is that just my computer?

----------


## kpitcher

> To save 2.5% over PayPal?  At the risk of having it stolen from me in the process?  I'm just saying widespread adoption may be impossible, and current value speculation may be driven by that hope.  Who wants this product?  Looks to me like it's high level techs who would wait for the next highway exit on 'E' to save .9 cents per gallon.  .00083% of the population?  Oh, + drug kingpins who aren't too stoned to learn the thing.


The risk of being stolen is slight. Do you have a computer virus on your computer? No? Then you're fine. If you do then any online banking can be risky. 

As there are smartphone apps that are really simple to use the widespread adoption is getting there. Coinbase's recent investments will mean their phone app will get even easier to use.  But if only 58 million people worldwide use bitcoins it'll be a big success.

Drug kingpins don't need to bother with bitcoins. They can launder trillions through reputable banks like HSBC just fine.

----------


## AdamT

> Ok so the IRS gets records that you bought some coin at coinbase through your bank.


This is the one thing I don't like about Coinbase, still got that traceable link to the legacy establishment system. Some clever dev needs to invent a way to get USD onto a site via a quick means, then transfer through multiple wallets and finally to your wallet or destination of choice.

I mean, Coinbase can be forced at any time to cough up all records of their users and transactions. I can see the IRS salivating over this, sifting through the data and targeting people. Demanding records of all their btc movements, losses/gains etc.

----------


## amonasro

> This is the one thing I don't like about Coinbase, still got that traceable link to the legacy establishment system. Some clever dev needs to invent a way to get USD onto a site via a quick means, then transfer through multiple wallets and finally to your wallet or destination of choice.
> 
> I mean, Coinbase can be forced at any time to cough up all records of their users and transactions. I can see the IRS salivating over this, sifting through the data and targeting people. Demanding records of all their btc movements, losses/gains etc.


I don't think Coinbase shares anything with the IRS at this time about individuals' accounts. That could change, for sure. I'm more worried about my bank connected to Coinbase, as they're required to report transactions over $10,000 to the IRS. 

If one wants to stay as anonymous as possible, send your coins through a mixer. That creates solid plausible deniability should they attempt to trace coins back to you. That is, until they develop a blockchain tracking program, which they are probably years away from doing. Even then, the nerds will be waaaay ahead of them.

----------


## AdamT

> I don't think Coinbase shares anything with the IRS at this time about individuals' accounts. That could change, for sure. I'm more worried about my bank connected to Coinbase, as they're required to report transactions over $10,000 to the IRS. 
> 
> If one wants to stay as anonymous as possible, send your coins through a mixer. That creates solid plausible deniability should they attempt to trace coins back to you. That is, until they develop a blockchain tracking program, which they are probably years away from doing. Even then, the nerds will be waaaay ahead of them.


Thing is, if CB was under orders from IRS, no one might even know due to bs patriot act "terrorism" laws and the usual m.o.

Aren't mixers notoriously shady? As in, may steal your coins?

----------


## amonasro

> Aren't mixers notoriously shady? As in, may steal your coins?


I've actually never used one. But I know the blockchain wallet has one built in for a small fee. I'm certain you could trust it.

----------


## XTreat

Is there another thread you guys can debate the value of bitcoin? I would like to see what pres has to say.

----------


## nayjevin

Another thread?  Where am I?  

sorry presence

----------


## cindyEvans

BTC Price per LTC now is 0.01592. Current exchange rate per LTC = 29.20 USD. Hope the surge will remain relatively stable....

----------


## lotsOfCake

I don't know if you guys are awake but... At reading d. pate . saying he's all in on Ltc, and right now seeing a "cup and handle" on ltc/usd, I'm quite bullish. I'm worried it might become another red dragon...

----------


## presence

*TRIPLE YOUR LITECOIN IN 60 DAYS*


with love,

litepresence


https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/9uxbS3qPTs5n7k797





> LAUNCH THE MUTANT NOW











UPDATE:



RE:  3X LTC in 60 days


be warned... when the bot begins it MAY make very poor trades until it builds moving averages.... 

It does not "look back in time" to build MA's to it has to initialize.


I have had a number of complaints and I'm sorry.  I lost $ on initialization myself until I understood what was happening.

Trade w/ small $$$ (10 LTC) until the bot is humming along.  You can keep your funds "on the books" manually to prevent the bot from accessing funds; ie "Buy LTC $1"


ALSO... be warned.  I am new to bot building, I am very good at creating "decision points" but my coding skills are pretty noob... so beta and backtest everything yourself


AND ALWAYS INITIALIZE ANY BOT ON SMALL $

UPDATE 2: MARCH 22 2014


DON'T drop "bank" on it.  The bot works on market orders and will cause massive wake if you drop $100,000 on the books at once as a market order.

it is also not a very good "bear market bot" The backtest data at the time only allowed me to test to Nov1-Jan1.  

I still suspect in a bull market you could 3X LTC with $1000 of initial holdings with this bot, however In the Jan1 to March 22  bear market the bot gains 18% LTC but looses 18% CASH

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/Z2n6DKaLTCGw7ok58



I've learned much about bot programming and have much better script out now, check out:


DRAGON SLAYER

----------


## presence



----------


## btcltc

Should we hold LTC? Is this it?

----------


## lotsOfCake

> Should we hold LTC? Is this it?


According to that last reply, we should have sold Ltc 6.5 hours ago.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm not one to gripe about the quality of a service offered for free, but I really enjoy presence's input, and I feel somewhat starved of it now.  Just something to consider.  I hope you find the time to post more often, presence.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't think Coinbase shares anything with the IRS at this time about individuals' accounts. That could change, for sure. I'm more worried about my bank connected to Coinbase, as they're required to report transactions over $10,000 to the IRS.


I'm actually really concerned about this.  Does anyone have any advice for making transactions over $10,000?  I figure the IRS will know about it one way or another, but I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that.  Anyone who is savvy on tax law, what are your plans for dealing with Coinbase in large amounts?  When/how does the IRS go after you, and how much will they ask for?  Also, do they check out your whole history while they're at it?

----------


## brooks009

> I'm actually really concerned about this.  Does anyone have any advice for making transactions over $10,000?  I figure the IRS will know about it one way or another, but I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that.  Anyone who is savvy on tax law, what are your plans for dealing with Coinbase in large amounts?  When/how does the IRS go after you, and how much will they ask for?  Also, do they check out your whole history while they're at it?


I have the same questions...

I'm also waiting on an update from presence....

----------


## muh_roads

looks like you were right about 820 pres

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I have the same questions...
> 
> I'm also waiting on an update from presence....


By the way, just FYI: Trying to deliberately avoid depositing over $10k in order to avoid IRS notification is also a tax crime for which you can be put in jail, and it's called "structuring."  That said, the way in which this is applied is very arbitrary, but it usually requires a pretty long period of this type of behavior.  The goal is to catch ritch people trying to fly under the radar who simply can't help dealing in large quantities of cash at one time.  It's a problem you think you'd like to have, but at least you know you're at less of a risk of being caught for doing it if you're not rich.

----------


## XTreat

> *TRIPLE YOUR LITECOIN IN 60 DAYS*
> 
> 
> with love,
> 
> litepresence



I wish I could say I understand this but I don't. I am still in cash waiting to buy back BTC.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## btcltc

> According to that last reply, we should have sold Ltc 6.5 hours ago.


Well, I sold LTC at 31 dollars but bought NMC at 8.1 for all of it instead...
dear me

----------


## XTreat

Just bought back in @ 805.

----------


## presence



----------


## btcltc

Lets hope ur last chart shows a great upswing in price or volume the next days..

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


What does this chart mean?  Are we still going down again or is this the big one?  Is this still the double/triple top you were talking about or is this a new paradigm?

----------


## presence

> Just bought back in @ 805.


That's straight up BOSS.

Low 804!

-----------------------------------

eta...


well we're back down here "retesting"  


I try not to freak out in situations like this... Is what it is... I "already beat the curve" so I hold...  don't get me wrong... if I get sense of another parabolic down... I might play it stressed trigger finger short...  But I like longs because they're more predictable; 48 hours or more in advance.

So in my case I dumped 29.05 last night to buy 26 today.   

Tha'ts win... more crypto than I had yesterday. 




23.3/ltc last alerts me, but doesn't scare me.

----------


## btcltc

Any idea when prices bounce back up again?

----------


## brooks009

> By the way, just FYI: Trying to deliberately avoid depositing over $10k in order to avoid IRS notification is also a tax crime for which you can be put in jail, and it's called "structuring." That said, the way in which this is applied is very arbitrary, but it usually requires a pretty long period of this type of behavior. The goal is to catch ritch people trying to fly under the radar who simply can't help dealing in large quantities of cash at one time. It's a problem you think you'd like to have, but at least you know you're at less of a risk of being caught for doing it if you're not rich.


Thanks for the info. Sounds like you know more about this than I do. Its weird worrying about rich people stuff.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thanks for the info. Sounds like you know more about this than I do. Its weird worrying about rich people stuff.


I know, right?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Just got back in at about the same price I sold at.  So far, it looks like I predicted the bottom pretty good.

In @ $797

----------


## nayjevin

> I'm actually really concerned about this.  Does anyone have any advice for making transactions over $10,000?  I figure the IRS will know about it one way or another, but I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that.  Anyone who is savvy on tax law, what are your plans for dealing with Coinbase in large amounts?  When/how does the IRS go after you, and how much will they ask for?  Also, do they check out your whole history while they're at it?


Just pay your damn taxes.  What does it matter, if you actually end up profiting for the calendar year, you'll be a pig in $#@! anyway.

----------


## nayjevin

> That's straight up BOSS.
> 
> Low 804!
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> eta...
> 
> 
> ...


 I like that, when I saw it toward 820 I would a said 840'all be fine, some gains within a week.  Super conservative

----------


## Dianne

> Just pay your damn taxes.  What does it matter, if you actually end up profiting for the calendar year, you'll be a pig in $#@! anyway.


Can't you withdraw smaller amounts for deposition to your bank account; i.e., cash out on 0.10 btc at a time?     I think 5k and above is the limit in which the bank must inform the feds; although they probably inform the feds of everything if you're in one of the bankster banks; i.e., jp morgan, bank of america, etc.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Just pay your damn taxes.  What does it matter, if you actually end up profiting for the calendar year, you'll be a pig in $#@! anyway.


Wow, what crawled up your ass?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Can't you withdraw smaller amounts for deposition to your bank account; i.e., cash out on 0.10 btc at a time?     I think 5k and above is the limit in which the bank must inform the feds; although they probably inform the feds of everything if you're in one of the bankster banks; i.e., jp morgan, bank of america, etc.


No, I'm pretty sure it's $10k.  If not, then I've already been reported.  By the way, what you just suggested doing is called structuring, and it's illegal.

----------


## nayjevin

> Wow, what crawled up your ass?


Haha, sorry.  I just hate seeing people stress about taxes.  It's really stress free to just accept.

----------


## Dianne

The trollbox is going wild, lol..   We're at 786. and trollbox says GOX is down.

----------


## Dianne

> No, I'm pretty sure it's $10k.  If not, then I've already been reported.  By the way, what you just suggested doing is called structuring, and it's illegal.


I just looked it up, it is 10,000....    was 5k in the olden days )

----------


## nayjevin

> *TRIPLE YOUR LITECOIN IN 60 DAYS*
> 
> 
> with love,
> 
> litepresence
> 
> 
> [S

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Haha, sorry.  I just hate seeing people stress about taxes.  It's really stress free to just accept.


Indeed it is.  It would be really stress free if we just didn't worry about liberty at all, I suppose.  Just accept the TSA, taxes, Obamacare, the fed, getting thrown in jail and fined, etc.

----------


## nayjevin

> Indeed it is.  It would be really stress free if we just didn't worry about liberty at all, I suppose.  Just accept the TSA, taxes, Obamacare, the fed, getting thrown in jail and fined, etc.


Let it not be said that his kids brought him no trading peanuts in tax prison on visiting day.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

Can someone explain what this random chart means?

----------


## nayjevin

> Can someone explain what this random chart means?


Up to the dot in the center of the cone has actually occurred.  The dot is now.  After the dot is theory of what might happen if it behaves similarly to the past on a larger scale.

Edit... that's not right.  Fluorescent is future... hmmm... I dunno.

My guess is this says if your srategy is maximize profits (highest risk) and you believe historical data projection theories the next ltc move is sell as close to 25 as you can and buy as close to 21 as you can.

----------


## muh_roads

pres, thoughts on NMC?

----------


## muh_roads

> *TRIPLE YOUR LITECOIN IN 60 DAYS*
> 
> 
> with love,
> 
> litepresence
> 
> 
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/9uxbS3qPTs5n7k797


Testify indeed.  Your script here helped you go from 400 LTC starting November 1st to 1300 LTC now?

----------


## presence

> Testify indeed.  Your script here helped you go from 400 LTC starting November 1st to 1300 LTC now?




I wish 


I wrote it yesterday.  I beta backtested it on the China Bubble and The April Bubble.   In both instances it came out with more than 3X LTC.


I did some other scenario testing... tuned and adjusted, tuned and adjusted... 



I'm running it now live since this morning.   

...along with some other more fancy open source ones.  







Welcome to the age of cloud bot wars.


I've thrown down on cryptotrader.org the way I should have thrown down on Bitcoin in 2010.



No longer is the question sleep in fiat or sleep in crypto... but which bot to leave on at night.

----------


## presence

> Can someone explain what this random chart means?


I've "interpolated" the little pink area onto the big pink area  by stretching the image.

The little event  was the "previous" bull bear struggle.   the first couple bounces off of that struggle should mirror into the current event.


So you see green and red candles current... with a color ajusted and slightly transparent version of what previously happened in the last "breakout"



The chart suggest that we'd see a peak of the first bounce since the bottom @ 25.3


Actual peak was 25.25.




I'm now expecting a second bottom at about 21.4 (the second white dot from the bottom)



The big pink dot is just a zoomed in version of the little pink dot... 


Right after the little pink dot we headed to the moon in smaller scale


hmm.




The good thing about interpolation is it does a really good job of extrapolating the first couple of bounces off of the next bottom...


Now whether it breaks up or down at the tip... and whether the last few bounces are accurate... often not so much.





But it just nailed the "25.3"



and judging by the open bear window 4 candles from the tip... good odds we're headed back to 21.4 as projected.

----------


## lotsOfCake

thats a 5m ltcusd chart but, what are the indicator parameters in this plot? EMA and x y z w, what numbers?

----------


## presence

> thats a 5m ltcusd chart but, what are the indicator parameters in this plot? EMA and x y z w, what numbers?


20 25 150 195 MA's _not EMA's_

----------


## lotsOfCake

> 20 25 150 195 MA's _not EMA's_


<3

----------


## lotsOfCake

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bitcoin+taobao
:1

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bitcoin+taobao
> :1


What's Taobao?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


I don't get it.  Your first chart shows a green arrow and your others show a huge red arrow.  Can you explain what your charts are showing?  Does that big red arrow mean it's going to zero?

I'm not one to advocate panic selling, but if you have reason to believe it's going to zero, please don't hesitate to advocate panic selling.

----------


## Dianne

> I don't get it.  Your first chart shows a green arrow and your others show a huge red arrow.  Can you explain what your charts are showing?  Does that big red arrow mean it's going to zero?
> 
> I'm not one to advocate panic selling, but if you have reason to believe it's going to zero, please don't hesitate to advocate panic selling.


Let me be the first to say I'm not much of a chart reader, so thank you everyone for explaining!!

It looks to me like the giant arrow going downward is a projection for one btc to be worth 4746 yuan (chinese fiat), which converts to $784.00 US .   Yesterday the low was $720. according to btc-e, but of course it must have been while I was asleep.

----------


## Dianne

> 


So on this chart you are projecting a possible btc drop to 2000 yuan, or $330.00.   Roughly when would that be expected.... definitely staying up whatever night this is.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Let me be the first to say I'm not much of a chart reader, so thank you everyone for explaining!!
> 
> It looks to me like the giant arrow going downward is a projection for one btc to be worth 4746 yuan (chinese fiat), which converts to $784.00 US .   Yesterday the low was $720. according to btc-e, but of course it must have been while I was asleep.


Wait, how did you get 4746?

----------


## Dianne

> Wait, how did you get 4746?


I was looking at the charts in post 233 and 234.   The big red arrow stopped at 4746.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I was looking at the charts in post 233 and 234.   The big red arrow stopped at 4746.


I did not read it like that at all.  For some reason, presence doesn't seem to be here to clarify and I'm very confused about it.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I did not read it like that at all.  For some reason, presence doesn't seem to be here to clarify and I'm very confused about it.


Pres probably gives more detailed insight on a personal basis to those that have profited from the forecasts and have tipped for the advice as a thx. Just a thought, could be wrong.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm running it now live since this morning.


How is it working out?

How do you even run it?  Firefox plugin?

----------


## XTreat

I actually sent him a pm yesterday telling him I would tip him out if I made some coin off of his advice.

----------


## nayjevin

I dunno but seems to me he thinks it will drop.  If I think it's gonna drop, or if I can't read the chart, I'm not moving cash.

I already owe the man for the knowledge, I'm just too embarrassed at the amount I could afford to send

----------


## nayjevin

Wth mBTC's coming your way.  If anyone wonders its for LIBERTY.

----------


## amonasro

> How is it working out?
> 
> How do you even run it?  Firefox plugin?


cryptotrader.org

Great site if programming bots to outperform the other bots is your thing

----------


## Dianne

The guys on trollbox this morning are talking about a 51% attack.    Does anyone know what that means?

----------


## XTreat

as far as I am concerned they call it roll box for a reason. I don't believe anything that I read in there.

----------


## nayjevin

The vast majority of people or pseudo-people who feel the need to say something in there have personal profit in mind.

----------


## Neil Desmond

> The guys on trollbox this morning are talking about a 51% attack.    Does anyone know what that means?


Yes, I know what it means.

----------


## presence

UPDATE:



RE:  3X LTC in 60 days


be warned... when the bot begins it MAY make very poor trades until it builds moving averages.... 

It does not "look back in time" to build MA's to it has to initialize.


I have had a number of complaints and I'm sorry.  I lost $ on initialization myself until I understood what was happening.

Trade w/ small $$$ (10 LTC) until the bot is humming along... then drop bank on it.


ALSO... be warned.  I am new to bot building, I am very good at creating  "decision points" but my coding skills are pretty noob... so beta and  backtest everything yourself


AND ALWAYS INITIALIZE ANY BOT ON SMALL $

----------


## brooks009

> It does not "look back in time" to build MA's to it has to initialize.


wow, I assumed it would look back... seems dumb not to. How long before it starts to make smart trades? (a day or weeks?)

----------


## presence

> wow, I assumed it would look back... seems dumb not to. How long before it starts to make smart trades? (a day or weeks?)



Thats this bots fail... it starts to trade immediately... but it doesn't have a good long moving average until 12 hours in.     


So in the first day it may make some "fluke" trades.   

I'm beta testing several bots, and I've actually given up on the 3X LTC bot for the moment because its really designed to 3X LTC during a April bubble or China bubble.





The 3X bots other "fail" is it works on open orders.  I was designing it for noobs w/ small amounts of money who were new to bots and looking for something with no chance of being trojan/malware.


Well that's great until someone decided to run my bot w/ 500k usd last night and dumped their bank on the books in open market orders and quickly got burnt.


This bot needs to be initiated small amount... for first 24 hours... then you can 10x that amount until it loses profitability.



Hope that helps.

----------


## presence

> How is it working out?
> 
> How do you even run it?  Firefox plugin?




I've moved on to beta testing other bots... and since I need a seperate account for each I've given up on this one for the time being.  Though several ppl have pm'ed me w/ mixed results... The bot is a 1h bot and should only execute trades every 3 days or so... it is also important to note it is not designed to be used with more than 20k usd at a time; it works on "market orders" and can be the force which drives up its own buy price.  

Never underestimate the power of your own wake. 


Part II

I'm a member of cryptotrader.org... it costs 1 LTC/mo and runs your bots for you on a cloud server.

----------


## muh_roads

> Never underestimate the power of your own wake.


lol, you mean a pump that was initiated by your bot?




> Part II
> 
> I'm a member of cryptotrader.org... it costs 1 LTC/mo and runs your bots for you on a cloud server.


Thanks for the info.  Do you have a bot you prefer during dull times like now and another for more crazy times?

----------


## Revelations

> Thats this bots fail... it starts to trade immediately... but it doesn't have a good long moving average until 12 hours in.     
> 
> 
> So in the first day it may make some "fluke" trades.   
> 
> I'm beta testing several bots, and I've actually given up on the 3X LTC bot for the moment because its really designed to 3X LTC during a April bubble or China bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats pretty silly for someone to throw 1/2 a million $ on a system without care. Not your fault for a moment. 

Whith your setup, I ran some back tests from 1 Dec 2013 to yesterday and I was able to 2x my 1000$ investment. A 100% ROI is pretty good IMO! (even on paper). I chose that time specifically to see how the system works during times of sideways or otherwise quiet times.

----------


## presence

> it is interesting to look at the 1 minute intervals on  bitcoinwisdom right after that last 2h tick, volume shoots way up for  that minute, and the first minutes closes at the high of just over 840.  So the bot bought at the high for that minute. I was using 0.5%  adjustment, and the first minute looks like it opened at $836.59, which  plus 0.5% is 840.xx.
>   The next 3 minutes all trade higher than the first minute, and then  the 4th minute had a low of 839.36, and all minutes after that have not  gone back below 840


https://cryptotrader.org/topics/919469/best-btc-e-bots




> *I'm earning like a bitch on all your Thanasis 5M bots*
> 
> 
> can you please shut them down. They're all running on same 2h intervals. This has become unethical even for my $#@! soul.
> 
> []
> 
>                     He saying it's trivially easy for him to game these bots to make lots of money.
> 
> ...



https://cryptotrader.org/topics/3277...anasis-5m-bots

----------


## presence

> lol, you mean a pump that was initiated by your bot?
> 
> Thanks for the info.  Do you have a bot you prefer during dull times like now and another for more crazy times?


yes, a pump initiated by your own bot... or by a "swarm" of users using the same bot as we've seen in the above pic




Now regarding do I have multiple bots... yes.  I do.    Do they all work?  No.  


coffescript is not to hard to catch and the cryptotrader community is really a cool place with good vibes.  




Most of my bank is just sitting in bitcoin (well... I rode the LTC wave earlier manually)

But I'm beginning to see some of the shortcomings of bots and I'm gradually building a "collection" of interacting bots.  

Backtests and real world are two different animals when you consider your own wake.


The problem I'm having... many of my bots take a few hours to "initialize" the calculations... and I've only been bot building for a few days... 

More time will tell.   Any long wave bot really isn't going to tell you anything until a week or two passes; its designed to trade 10 or less times a month. 

I built that simple 3X LTC bot... I've looked over Liteguy's 2h bot that ppl are over using and now gaming in retaliation.  And I'm slowly picking up coffescript in the process.

I'm really good w/ math... no so really good w/ code; I know what I want to say, but often am troubled by stupid syntax issues.



But I do have a goal and I am wrapping my head around syntax

Goal is a series of "simple" ema crossover bots working as a self regulating swarm of their own.  


One that "auto hedges" my bank moving 1 BTC at a time via ema cross between USD AND BTC on 2 hour frequency... but calculated in 120 minutes as to avoid the "on the o'clock" swarm rush hour.  And moving its 1 BTC increments at differring thresholds as to not "drown in own wake"; dump piecemeal.  This is my "long bot".  It will be quite similar in wave scale as my original 3X litecoin bot.  But work on the minute trading and calculating scale and move BTCUSD instead of LTCUSD.

So then I'm going to have a second bot short playing NMC/BTC and XPM/BTC bulltraps; simple ema cross again.  1 BTC movement at a time.  
And a third bot playing breakout bull movements in NMC/BTC and XPM BTC



My usd holdings will also have a similar set of bots playing bulltraps and outbreaks on LTC/USD and PPC/USD



So far... I've learned programming bots on tne 1h is "best for trading" but worst for "market orders"... so I'm doing everying by the minute... which makes backtesting much more time consuming; larger data sets... smaller windows of time the system can handle, multiple tests to test 1m of data... plus they take longer to initialize in minutes vs hours; more weird data at first etc... but the results should be smooth running bots that don't create wake and move on 1h scale cycles for in and out of crypto... and 15m scale cycles for bulltraps and bull runs on the ratios, regardless of whether I'm holding fiat or crypto.


Thats the plan anyway.   




Tonight I'm sleeping on a NMC/BTC bulltrap bot that works in 15m size candle cycles but runs on 1m increments.  

Its perks

1) it leans BTC and doesn't hold NMC long
2) it backtested 2X in 30 days NMC holdings
3) I initialized it all day while I was holding LTC and it hand nothing to spend 
4) It nails 15m bulltraps like a boss and NMC/BTC is always either bear market or straight to the moon; most of the time its bear market down.

downfalls
1) only rides "bull traps" never rides a bullish breakout that NMC is known for... but really makes up for it on the backside (again 2X NMC in 30 day backtest)
2) works best on backside of a NMC breakout... 5+ trades a day... but then slows to 1 trade every other day in "sideways" market
3) I'm running it live first time while I sleep
4) it moves everything you give it at one time... once I know it works well a 1 BTC I'll add in code to move incrementally.
5) the way its currently coded it would override any attempt to buy a breakout bull movement by another bot.

----------


## btcltc

Dont prices usually drop weekends. Why did it jump the last period of the day?

----------


## presence

> Thanks for the info.  Do you have a bot you prefer during dull times like now and another for more crazy times?


on the "dull times like now" subject...

if you tighten your thresholds in your bot it will activate with less spread between ema's.   This configuration will work better for "sideways" but bears the risk that you will buy something short that really puts you on the "wrong side of the book" for the long movement.  So when playing sideways on thin thresholds always "watch your bot".   Like anything else... backtest on a market similar to the one you anticipate and adjust from there.  You may also wish to move to limit orders w/ timeout in the case of "sideways" to prevent some stoploss and chasing the margins too thin.

----------


## fatjohn

Hey litepresence,

I made an account at cryptotrader. The mail said the following:

4. Click 'Trade' button, you will see the form that allows you to configure trading bot, put you API key & secret into it and then click 'Start'. After connecting to the exchange, you trading bot configuration should appear at https://cryptotrader.org/live where the bot will log all its trading activity.

What is an API key and a secret key? To which adress do you need to send money to? How easy is it to get dollars out? How old is this site and how come you trust it? It does not seem to be very transparent plus, its expensive. I'm maximally willing to put 1200 dollars in trading and i need to pay 210 for 6 months.

Also your LTC x 3 bot is taken offline? I cannot see it anymore and yesterday I could.

----------


## presence

> Hey litepresence,
> 
> I made an account at cryptotrader. The mail said the following:
> 
> 4. Click 'Trade' button, you will see the form that allows you to configure trading bot, put you API key & secret into it and then click 'Start'. After connecting to the exchange, you trading bot configuration should appear at https://cryptotrader.org/live where the bot will log all its trading activity.
> 
> What is an API key and a secret key? To which adress do you need to send money to? How easy is it to get dollars out? How old is this site and how come you trust it? It does not seem to be very transparent plus, its expensive. I'm maximally willing to put 1200 dollars in trading and i need to pay 210 for 6 months.
> 
> Also your LTC x 3 bot is taken offline? I cannot see it anymore and yesterday I could.




Here is 3X LTC in 60 version 1.2 

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/ooCLc4k4sFunZfzFq



Now trades on the same wave...but using 5m candles and 50LTC bid increments.  


anything of course is beta.


fatjohn, yes the site is new... The reason I trust it is because the dev is present, making changes, taking feedback... etc.  

It is very much a "new" situation and its a little laggy and buggy like a cryptsy experience... but all in all the forums have very good vibes; I don't get sketched out by the "tone".


Here is a link to live chat:

https://cryptotrader.org/topics/3543...-org-live-chat

----------


## presence

regarding API keys... you must be a member of an Exhange like btce or mtgox to use this bot trading engine.    You get your API key from your user "profile" at btce.  Be sure to check off "trade" "info" and click save when you generate a new key.

----------


## btcltc

> regarding API keys... you must be a member of an Exhange like btce or mtgox to use this bot trading engine.    You get your API key from your user "profile" at btce.  Be sure to check off "trade" "info" and click save when you generate a new key.



You have to pay to be able to use their services? cryptotrading, that is.
How can a newbie be sure the bots there will perform well?

----------


## nayjevin

- find someone you trust 100% who is already making gains to give you their source (more gains than buy and hold would get you) 

Or,

- use bots to AUTOMATE YOUR TRADING STRATEGY, not to get rich without trading  

my 2 cents!

all I have is a bot sending me emails when the price goes down.  then i can consider whether my kidney is worth that price, since I'm not very heavily invested in the dollar atm.

----------


## presence

> You have to pay to be able to use their services? cryptotrading, that is.
> How can a newbie be sure the bots there will perform well?


Yes it costs .17 BTC for half year. 

Nothing is certain... but there are some pretty kickin' bots there:

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/i5KYSvrwmr9DfLwBq


here's one I just built:

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/Z6Q57HDBfmoNanmmP


add "cryptocat" to your browser and go to chatroom "cryptotrader" to chat... there are 10 members there now.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Hello, new on here.  It says I need to make a post before I can post with an image, so here it is.  Subject matter will be writing Crypto Trading Bots in CoffeeScript

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Yes it costs .17 BTC for half year. 
> 
> Nothing is certain... but there are some pretty kickin' bots there:
> 
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/i5KYSvrwmr9DfLwBq
> 
> here's one I just built:
> 
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/Z6Q57HDBfmoNanmmP
> ...



Hello, new to this Forum, but have been following it for quite some time. Thanks LitePresence for sharing your knowledge and more recently your trading bot testing results.

For the first kickin' bot you referred to above:

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/i5KYSvrwmr9DfLwBq

it seems to me it only really is kickin' when trading on 2 hour candles, with the backtesting I have completed (see image below - hope it turns up, had to post from an online link and dropbox was my only option in that regard). Just learning so maybe I am doing something wrong here. Could you review these figures and advise if this might be the case, namely the trading periodicity is important for each separate trading bot one reviews and if so, shouldn't this be included in the header comments for a particular script?

Assumptions to my calcs:

1. Trader starts with 10 BTC only and selects two trading ranges.
2. First range starts on 31 July 2013 and continues to the present time. Someone who has gone very long and doesn't simply wish to be a BNH.
3. Second range represents a trader who lived through 29/29 November, got excited and started trading on 1 Dec 2013 and continues to the present time. A late in the game trader but not wishing to just be a BNH.
4. Buy trading fee set to 0.3% and Sell trading fee set to 0.2% for a total in and out of 0.5% to the exchange (fee structure @ Cryptsy - surely we should be able to conduct such trading bots there as well???).



https://www.dropbox.com/s/qew42b2x4k...cktesting2.jpg

In many cases, while one ends up with appreciable USD gains, it leaves the trader with less BTC (unless using 2 hour candles during long trading ranges).  My goal is to increase the total number of BTC with any trading bot I use or develop on my own, not necessarily USD . . . long term accumulation strategy.  Should my backtesting be correct for this trading bot, I really like what I see for the Noob who started on 1 Dec 13.

In the above backtest calculations, to get the 1 Hour Candles I needed to compute the 31 July 13 -> 14 Jan 14 date range in two parts given data limitations @ cryptotrader.

One big benefit of this particular script however, is that it provides example code for how to monitor many chart indicators (e.g. Ichimoku, RSI, MACD, WMA, HeikinAshi, etc. etc.)

In my quest to start learning CoffeeScript I have located these two resources:

http://arcturo.github.io/library/coffeescript/

http://coffeescript.org/

Wondering if you may have other CoffeeScript resource links you have found to be beneficial.

In time hoping to backtest various scripts and then classify them into chart types which they would be most effective. Also digging through a number of scripts should assist in learning CoffeeScript particularly as it applies to writing a Crypto Trading Bot. If you find other Kickin' Bots maybe you can link them here and I can compile a Excel spreadsheet database to share (various trading positions for which they apply - e.g. long term, short term bear, short term bull, bear and bull traps, and scripts that not just trade the BTCUSD or LTCUSD cross, but perhaps trade in and out of various Altcoins depending on which is moving at the moment - my ultimate scripting goal - perhaps you have come across one that does this already)

Fingers crossed the image turns up else the context of this post will be lost.  Worst case you will need to review the image via the dropbox link provided.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

The other assumption used in the above calcs is both trades sold today @ USD908 (Mt. Gox pricing used), whereas BTC currently trading @ USD$926.

----------


## muh_roads

I feel like I'm being recruited by the btc-e trollbox.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Hello, new to this Forum, but have been following it for quite some time. Thanks LitePresence for sharing your knowledge and more recently your trading bot testing results.
> 
> For the first kickin' bot you referred to above:
> 
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/i5KYSvrwmr9DfLwBq
> 
> it seems to me it only really is kickin' when trading on 2 hour candles, with the backtesting . . . . . . . .
> 
> . . . . . 
> ...


Apologies, 2 hr is noted in the script description.  Missed that part, as I say I am new to all this.  All's good.

----------


## nayjevin

> Hello, new on here.  It says I need to make a post before I can post with an image, so here it is.  Subject matter will be writing Crypto Trading Bots in CoffeeScript


Welcome!

----------


## muh_roads

pres, NMC update?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Perhaps a BTC update as well, or just an update, period?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Perhaps a BTC update as well, or just an update, period?


BTC going forward?  In keeping with the dragon tail playing out as was suggested on here prior to Christmas, Aroon indicator shows a move higher today with a bounce off of the Ichimoku cloud and our new resistance line - $960?  From there a Full Moon (16/17 Jan) price drop would not be unexpected (think back to what was happening during the last Full Moon on 17 December).


Graphic here -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o6er1srwi...-15-Jan-14.jpg


Remember the Huobi runs this market, and the Chinese are into lunar calendar trading.


$650 - $700 by 1 February is my expectation.


A good chance to focus on learning how to code trading bots.


Good 12 part intro video series on CoffeeScript here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbWHx8lyNHY

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Check out what happens though on New Moons and in the lead up to them or shortly following them.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/bieqefeb9v...n%20Action.jpg


Now if only there was a Ta-Lib Function for the Lunar Cycle.  Oh well, can always hard code the 2014/15 cycle into a Bot I suppose.  ;-)

calendar-365 is a good site for the manual trader as well as is the Moon indicator on TradingView.

http://www.calendar-365.co.uk/moon-c...4/January.html

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> pres, NMC update?


NMC Lunar Cycle -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6i1t5n7lw...ar%20Cycle.jpg

Interesting correlation.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

PPC Lunar Cycle -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4y6vocu01...ar%20Cycle.jpg

Uptrend to continue after very near-term price drop?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Primecoin Lunar Cycle -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4y6vocu01...ar%20Cycle.jpg

Notice how the exit points come about 3 days after the New Moon.

However, I think the beginning of the decline phase is more tighly correlated to BTC's upwards move away from its Ichimoku cloud around that time myself.

Anyway, wondering how high PPC, NMC and XPM will run up if you are sitting on a winning position?  Take New Moon + 3 Days Max and make sure you are back into BTC by then.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

LTC Lunar Cycle -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tswzldgs8...ar%20Cycle.jpg

If you always bought on a Full Moon (or 1-2 days prior) and then always sold on a New Moon (or 1-2 days prior), you'd come out pretty good over a years time I reckon.

How hard could that be to code into a Bot?  The LTC Crypto Lunar Calendar Trading Bot :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Anyway this is the Bot I would like to see.  Not so interested in accumulating USD.  Regardless of where the near term price action goes in BTC, more interested in turning BTC into even more BTC.  Since Christmas we have seen some good opportunities to do this as this graphic shows:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ne6nk34y1o...eek-Trader.jpg


Now that we see that the phases of the lunar cycle play a big part also, its a matter of picking the LTC, PPC, NMC and XPM departures from their relative trading position with regard to BTC and buy them.  Then knowing exactly when to sell them and get back into BTC.


If you look at LTC's move around Christmas, it will only ever get so far before BTC will rise in protest, signaling an end to the gap between them.  That departure from the Ichimoku cloud (by a certain amount is the sell LTC trigger and scurry back into BTC).  Same thing happened with PPC, NMC and XPM on about 3 January.  By late 2 January one should have noticed BTC rising and known this was the signal to sell and get back into BTC.


Rest of the time you just ride along in BTC and wait.

Add in more coins as detailed charts become available?  Sure why not, the more the merrier I say  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Time for a "Cool Change" in trading tactics?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjHR89gKfSU


I know its time for a Cool Change in weather.  Now 45C down here and the "Cool Change" isn't due till Friday.  :-(


As the Wicked-Witch said to Dorothy "my GPU's are Meeeeeeeeeeellllllting"


A graphic to remind to be wise to the Lunar Cycle -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzxgtbvwje...ool-Change.jpg


And as Glenn Shorrock would say "Staring at the Full Moon Like a Lover!!!"  Buying Op!!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Time for a "Cool Change" in trading tactics?
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjHR89gKfSU
> 
> 
> I know its time for a Cool Change in weather.  Now 45C down here and the "Cool Change" isn't due till Friday.  :-(
> 
> 
> ...


. . . anyway to change my handle on here to "LunaticTrader"?  :-)

http://lunatictrader.com/?Moon_Cycles:Lunar_Phases

----------


## SomewhereInOz

OK BTC bumped its head on $960, Ouch that hurt . . . and quicker than I figured -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g5n8teoqa0...20Achieved.jpg

Now time for a ride on the "Full Moon Screamer" -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h8xszydclv...n-Screamer.jpg

Look out below . . . . there's gonna be coin splattering all around the $800 Ichimoku cloud within 24 hours  :-)

Lower if we're lucky, get to buy more . . . Mwah-ha-ha

----------


## muh_roads

Dipped my toe halfway in @ 00747 NMC earlier.  Getting bored and wanted some action again.  Didn't drop enough to take the rest of my order, but that's fine.

btw thanks for all the bot info SIO.  Will be pouring over it all in the next few days.  I'm still trying to figure out Meta Trader, heh.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Primecoin Lunar Cycle -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4y6vocu01...ar%20Cycle.jpg
> 
> Notice how the exit points come about 3 days after the New Moon.
> 
> However, I think the beginning of the decline phase is more tighly correlated to BTC's upwards move away from its Ichimoku cloud around that time myself.
> 
> Anyway, wondering how high PPC, NMC and XPM will run up if you are sitting on a winning position?  Take New Moon + 3 Days Max and make sure you are back into BTC by then.


I meant to show XPM earlier, but put up a duplicate PPC.  Doesn't matter too much, they both look the same:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b7621sv1qi...ar%20Cycle.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

There was some discussion about the merits of Mastercoin (MSC or MST) a week ago.


"Let's Talk Bitcoin" is an excellent channel to stay tuned to on YT.


Here's an interview with Mastercoin's Peter Todd discussing some of the issues and his thoughts of the merits of MSC over/in cooperation with BTC.


Part I - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fGPhwVUeug


Part II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBsIEySNOiM

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> . . . anyway to change my handle on here to "LunaticTrader"?  :-)
> 
> http://lunatictrader.com/?Moon_Cycles:Lunar_Phases


You should call yourself the Lunartic trader... and also we should rename this thread after you.  

Pretty fascinating stuff.  Could you point me to a resource to learn more about this method of trading?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

42Coin - the Meaning of life, the Universe and Cryptocurrency


A funny story, but the joke's on me . . . read on.


Well first a quick vid recap from H2G2 to set the tone:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8


Note Crowd response at 01:50, you'll see why in a moment.  Its the same let down feeling you will find everytime you scroll the coin list on Cryptsy and see 42Coin up there at the top of the list.  ;-)


Discovered 42Coin was available for trade on Cryptsy two days ago.  Hmmmm, I wondered what could that be?  It's a Newie.


There's a grand total of 42 Coins Max to be available through Scrypt mining.  Oooooh rarity, until you realise you are mining at 1.0E-08 coins for each block you find.  So this means there are really 420,000,000 real coin equivalents.  42 just sounds nice and small and rare for the marketing pitch.  It's kinda like saying, "We're only going to print $85 Billion a month" which doesn't seem so bad (I mean Billions and Trillions get bounced around alot these days), until you notice everything around you escalating in price.


Goal is to reach a Market Cap of $42,000,000 in under a month, the first coin and the fastest coin to achieve this if it does.  One word for this . . . HYPE!


I think Roger Hodgson pre-wrote a song about 42Coin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1g-idt-8U


Mining opened to miners on 8 Jan 2014 (supposedly).  There has definitely been some pre-mining that's gone on, else we wouldn't see coins trading so fast on Cryptsy, especially when you realise the per-day mining rate achievable.  At this moment were mining block 11,566.  So why all the hubbub about blocks 1-420 below?


42 Second Block Time


Difficulty re-targetted every 7 minutes


0.00000010 Block reward for the first 419 blocks


Blocks 420+ are 0.00004200 block reward in size


Block 420 is a SUPERBLOCK with 10x the normal block value


$42 Million in less than a month, thus each coin is worth $1,000,000 by 8 Feb 2014 or 1058 BTC at todays prices if achieved.


Exchanges opened two days ago with a 1500 BTC price achieved after first hour or two of trade, now down around 950 BTC and very soon to be tending hyperbolically towards zero IMHO, especially when the word gets out.


So started mining 2 days ago and wow I am pulling top hash rate with my mining rigs on this particular pool, beauty.  Only 30 miners total at this one pool, sweet!


Yesterday its up to 150 miners . . . ok so people are catching on.


42/0.00004200 per block means there are 1,000,000 possible blocks . . . ok so I'm in early.


Low and behold today its down to 42 miners (there's that darned number again), the others have all done a runner, where'd they all go?  Now I'm pulling 35% of the total hash rate for the entire pool, Huh? and achieving 263 GigaHash?  What?  Impossible.  8.2 MHash is about the best achievable with other coins (a dodgy gauge designed to get miner's to crack a fat and stick around?) . . . see blue line in image ->


https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbksrzg1wk...ash%20Rate.jpg


It gets even better.  Minimum withdrawal from the mining pool is still stuck on an old coins value of 4500 to 1,000,000 coins for auto payout (probably Dogecoin), with no way to contact the Pool Support Admin . . . Lovely!


After 2 days of mining achieved 8.7E-7 42coins, and this is in 45C heat.  Grrrr.  At todays rate of exchange that is the equivalent of 0.0008265 BTC or 0.0004132 BTC/Day.  On an average day, I can mine 0.08 to 0.1 BTC with my rigs achieving 1 BTC every 10-12 days via other Scrypt coins (WDC, ARG, MEC, MNC, DOGE, etc.).  And this isn't a major op, 3 rigs each with Four Sapphire R9 290's is all.


See why all the miners are doing a runner?  T'ain't worth it to mine 42Coin, and without miners guess what?  The things gonna die. And guess what?  They know this already.  Thus why they pre-mined a months worth of coin to sell on the exchanges during their hype campaign.  ;-)


Have some 42Coin or know someone who has or someone who is keen to invest think its the Answer to Life, the Universe and Cryptocurrency?  Ditch 'em fast!


Hendo and Maco are the brains behind this operation apparently:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PH...topic=399658.0


Doubt this coin will be around long enough to even make it to the Crypto-Currency Market Cap List let alone $42 Million.


But Hendo and Maco should score quite a few BTC until word spreads.  Help Spread It!


Is this a valid Coin?  No its another Meme Coin/Theme Coin Con!  Basically a 30-Day Pump and Dump.


Buyer Beware or what was that one again?  Oh yes a Pig in a Poke!  Sheez, stick to the lingo of the Forum would ya SomeoneInOz  :-)


The True Meaning of Life:  Life goes on and we live and learn.  Neeeeeext.


P.S.  Back to H2G2 why was it they had two BEK's (Black-Eyed Kids) ask the question?  Hmmmm . . . . Maybe Hendo and Maco are BEK's too ;-)  Spooky.


Interpretation:


Crack a Fat -> http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#C

----------


## btcltc

> BTC going forward?  In keeping with the dragon tail playing out as was suggested on here prior to Christmas, Aroon indicator shows a move higher today with a bounce off of the Ichimoku cloud and our new resistance line - $960?  From there a Full Moon (16/17 Jan) price drop would not be unexpected (think back to what was happening during the last Full Moon on 17 December).
> 
> 
> Graphic here -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o6er1srwi...-15-Jan-14.jpg
> 
> 
> Remember the Huobi runs this market, and the Chinese are into lunar calendar trading.
> 
> 
> ...


Are you sure the prices will drop by 1 february?
How long do you think it will take until prices stabilize again around 900?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 42Coin - the Meaning of life, the Universe and Cryptocurrency
> 
> 
> A funny story, but the joke's on me . . . read on.
> 
> 
> Well first a quick vid recap from H2G2 to set the tone:
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, you're Australian.  That explains it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Are you sure the prices will drop by 1 february?
> How long do you think it will take until prices stabilize again around 900?



Am I certain prices will drop by 1 Feb?  No one can be certain of anything in the Cryptos.  This is a wild and eratic marketplace.


When I first started looking at this forum around about 15 Dec (it wasn't a dedicated Litepresence Report back then) but just comments in the Cryptocurrencies by various members, I like many others were still riding the 28/29 November Euphoria of "Its going to the moon".  So then I saw the beginnings of the Presence presentations of "Go to Cash" and stay there for a few months because its going down (based on previous boom busts).  I thought at the time, no that can't be right Bitcoin has nowhere to go but up . . . my new normalcy bias getting in the way of rational logic.  Nothing goes up by 1100% and doesn't correct with an appropriate period of consolidation.


I suppose I hadn't been following the detailed price action on Bitcoin prior to October and started paying attention later that month.  However, as I began examining charts for other coins closely, they all seemed to exhibit the same characteristic, with varying minor degrees of changes of course.  There is the typical rapid manic rise, then the inevitable 4/8ths to 5/8ths Fibonacci Retracement (50% to 62%), then there is what is known as a Dead Cat bounce where it rises again to 75-80% of the peak value, followed by this arching, curving downards consolidation phase which Presence terms as a "Dragon Tail".  Check it out, pick any chart for any coin and you will see this characteristic.


Lets look at the April Spike again (some suggest which was brought on by the March 15, 2013 Cyprus Bail-In announcement):


https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ejj1sjc97...ril%202013.jpg


Firstly, wouldn't you know we find a New Moon right at the Price Spike?  I mean what are the chances of that?  :-)


But here we see how such spikes naturally corrected as described above.


So then in December Presence is predicting "this and that" short term and nailing it nearly every time.  And his basis for doing so is largely past chart comparisons (e.g. April 2013).  So this is starting to make sense to me.


Add to the debate is Clif High's (Web Bots - halfpasthuman.com) prediction that BTC will hit $3405 on precisely 15 January 2014 and this will be the signal for the end of many things.  The end of the rigging of the Gold and Silver markets, the end of the banksters control of everything, and basically the precursor to the end of the Fed by April 2014.  But guess what?  Its now 16 January 2014, at least where I'm at, and BTC is nowhere near $3405.  Clif's predictive linguistics are accurate on many counts, but one thing they typically fail at is dates.  Who knows, maybe what he is really seeing is 15 January 2015 or 15 January 2016, because he has been singing this collapse of the US Dollar, collapse of everything song probably since November 2010 as far as I can recall.  It will happen one day, but who knows when that will be.


So am I sure Bitcoin is headed lower by 1 February?  No I am not, but the indications from past boom-busts says it is.  Also when we hit $1093 recently this created a line of resistance along with $1284 which Bitcoin at the moment seems incapable of penetrating (will post a chart tomorrow showing this).


Can I say one wild card exists to make the 1 Feb prediction wrong, and that is the fact that the next New Moon is on 30 January and the day after that, 31 January is Chinese New Year.  Now out of 1.3 Billion Chinese, probably 99% have never even heard of Bitcoin, and even if they have, they will be hard pressed to be swayed from their favourite asset - Real Estate - in the next 15 Days.  But you never know, if another 1-2 Million people all of a sudden decide they want 1 BTC out of the 11 Million available, then it could be game over for $1000.


Another thing that tells me Bitcoin needs this continuing consolidation phase.  If you listen to the "Lets Talk Bitcoin" channel on YouTube, you will hear of this and that company needing to grow from 10 employees to 100, from 100 employees to 1000, how such and such company is moving to Chile or Argentina to escape an undesireable regulatory environment, etc. and this all needs to happen in the first 3 months of 2014.  I mean lets get real, the best thing possible for Bitcoin not just as a currency, but as a technology, is for this continuing consolidation period to happen through to March/April, else we will just be repeating the Dotcom mania with Amazon and the likes of the late 1990's.

If we go down to say $750, when $900?  Hmmm, not long, perhaps March or April, could be even sooner.

----------


## btcltc

Yeah its not too far sighted to say prices will probably drop after january when this whole china regulation comes into effect but I hope it doesn't take long for it to recover.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

A good video here on why Traders use Heiken Ashi Candlesticks in their charts instead of default candlesticks:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhx0bJf3geQ


Reason being is Heiken Ashi Candlesticks illustrate both up and down trends visually much better.


If you dig around any of the more detailed Crypto Trading Bot CoffeeScripts you will notice most all base trading on Heiken Ashi, so best to get used to them manually now.


Typically in a Script, a Heiken-Ashi Class is created and in there the math (methods) used to analyse candlesticks is defined.


Here are two references to read up on how Heiken-Ashi Candlesticks are evaluated - its not always the same, but rather varies depending on what is happening at the time (e.g. ha_method == 1, ha_method == 2, ha_method == 3, etc.):


http://daytrading.about.com/od/indic...HeikinAshi.htm


http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...is:heikin_ashi


Of course you can customise any script you find, but first its important to understand which methods the professional traders use and why, and then perhaps other options which may be suitable for a Script you are trying to write to trade a certain set of circumstances.

Before unleashing any script on the market with "real money", I think its important to understand every aspect of the script inside and out.  So it begins with figuring out all the indicators used (or that you plan to use) and then really researching them to the nth degree.  In time it may well turn out that all you do is simply copy a Heiken Ashi Class from someone elses script into your own, because it works and its not possible to make it better.  Still I want that personal verification first.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

This thread is kinda growing stale from it's original platform and it's slightly showing. Who is peeping and who is ing?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civzfZ_3uVc

Trend Channel - - > https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaac2i0bab...20Jan%2014.jpg

Current PPC 4 Hour, Post Full Moon, Give it time the drop is not complete yet - - > https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9bfqow6h1...Jan%202014.jpg

Buy Orders?  0.0064

Hunters & Collectors, a Great Aussie Band!

----------


## Dianne

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civzfZ_3uVc
> 
> Trend Channel - - > https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaac2i0bab...20Jan%2014.jpg
> 
> Current PPC 4 Hour, Post Full Moon, Give it time the drop is not complete yet - - > https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9bfqow6h1...Jan%202014.jpg
> 
> Buy Orders?  0.0064
> 
> Hunters & Collectors, a Great Aussie Band!


What do you think is a good buy in price?   Right now it's at .0069

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I had 0.0063 as the bottom, thus the 0.0064.  Reached 0.0065.  Oh well, missed it by a smidge.  Seems on its way back up now.  0.00694.

If thinking this is a good trade, perhaps 20% in here and remainder 80% once it confirms look alike of 18, 19. 20 December.

----------


## nayjevin

I am looking to invest a little and would like some advice.  I want to catch a innovative market on the way up. Right now I'm looking at the stagecoach,  candlestick makers, and newspapers with a paywall.  What would you suggest?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I am looking to invest a little and would like some advice.  I want to catch a innovative market on the way up. Right now I'm looking at the stagecoach,  candlestick makers, and newspapers with a paywall.  What would you suggest?


Personally I would be all in on Candlesticks.  Bees going the way of the Dodo thanks to GMO and how much Paraffin wax will be available once the global economy really tanks?  Added bonus, great barter item.


http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/27/einstein-bees/


4 years?  Oh well at least it would be an illuminated 4 years.  :-)


I get it now, instead of looking at the Cryptos and watching Candlesticks, we should be buying them instead, literally.

----------


## muh_roads

I got some USD stuck a bit too high and would like to use the BTC elsewhere.  You think PPC will be good to go again soon?  I think I need to start following more than just NMC.

Novacoin has a surprisingly high price.  The interest in these baffle me.  But I think diversifying at BTC lows might be wise as it'll drag others along with the next panic bubble buy.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Recommend not moving on PPC just yet.  New post in a few mins.  Things BTC related to consider first.

----------


## btcltc

10 days left until chinese regulation going into effect and price still manages above 800dollars. Will we see sudden drops some days before 1 feb or will this chinese thing not have so much of an effect?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

A couple of key penants to watch in BTC:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/b3v2ws9ov0...%20Penance.jpg


Big Penant formed by Candlewicks


Small Penant formed by full Candlesticks


Penants typically like to resolve themselves decidedly one way or another, either down or up.


As we know moving from BTC into an Altcoin is decidedly bad prior to both big up movements and big down movements in BTC, right now for next 24-36 hours probably safest to just sit tight in BTC and watch.


In last few days BTC has moved down to test support on the small penant, but bounced nicely off of it.  One thing to notice is declines on Full Moons can take 3-4 days following a full moon to realise.


Yes PPC found a spike bottom @ 0.0065 today, predictable based on past performance, but all you will be missing is a very near term move up in PPC (profitable yes) but then 4-5 days of blah (slight down and then more sideways action).  The big action, if it comes, will be in the last week of the month.  Once BTC proves that its not headed either for a significant breakdown, nor a breakout, but rather more sideways action, then PPC will be worth considering in the run up towards the end of the month.


Thing to watch now is BTC and the small penant.  As the Ichimoku cloud indicates, is a signficant downside move out of the question?  As will be seen later, perhaps this small penant is meaningless and between now and 24 January, all BTC will do is move sideways to slightly up.  A decidedly strong move by BTC up from say $934 on 24 January, then would be something to watch as we approach the new moon on 30 January and Chinese New Year the day following.  It could be up up and away and off to the races time.


However, if the past is any guide (e.g. April 2013 Spike and Consolidation), the blue dashed line shown in the chart should be the path BTC will take heading through February - two slightly rounding down curves (hard to draw with lines) however not as significantly rounded as last April because the candlewick spike high this time was not as extreme on the daily if that makes sense.


Again the April Chart:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ejj1sjc97...ril%202013.jpg


Just lines on a chart here, but consider the coincidence of these dates:


10 April 2013 (New Moon) - $280 High
6 July 2013 - Consolidation Penant Complete - $63 Bottom
Move after this was a gradual move higher
DateDiff => 88 Days
6 July 2013 very close to a New Moon


4 December 2013 (New Moon) - $1242 High
Add 88 Days
2 March 2014
New Moon => 1 March 2014
Big Penant Resolution from lines on chart => 3 March 2014


Right now on the daily BTC:


Volume declining, Aroon continuing to show weakness, MACD undecided


88 Days?


8 is the Money Number


8th Character in Alphabet => H


88 = HH = Internet Speak for Heil Hitler


So here's to much sideways BTC action (modest up and modest down) in the coming days and even weeks so the Alts can be playable once again.  Sieg Heil!  (Hail to Victory)

----------


## Dianne

Somewhere, thanks for taking the time to pass along all this information.    It will take me a while to digest it, but it is very helpful; although it can go either way.     I really don't think Chinese regulation at the end of the month is going to do much of anything..  I never count the Chinese out of anything.    I feel certain they already have bank accounts set up in other areas of the world, and don't need Chinese banks to handle their money.    

Do me a favor !!!!    When it's time to buy, come into the forum and yell BUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY !!!!!!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Do me a favor !!!!    When it's time to buy, come into the forum and yell BUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY !!!!!!!


Sure thing.  If on the off-chance that on 30 Jan 14 its approaching $988 (hows that, an 88 in the resistance testing number on that date?), besides yelling sell, sell, sell your PPC, NMC and XPM and get back into BTC, will add this for dramatic effect  :-)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUESBKlj7Hw


Otherwise, hoping I will be yelling buy, buy, buy @ $288 during some future Full Moon, but at the moment there appears to be a snowballs chance of that happening.

----------


## XTreat

Wow this thread has evolved since I last checked it.

----------


## Dianne

> Sure thing.  If on the off-chance that on 30 Jan 14 its approaching $988 (hows that, an 88 in the resistance testing number on that date?), besides yelling sell, sell, sell your PPC, NMC and XPM and get back into BTC, will add this for dramatic effect  :-)
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUESBKlj7Hw
> 
> 
> Otherwise, hoping I will be yelling buy, buy, buy @ $288 during some future Full Moon, but at the moment there appears to be a snowballs chance of that happening.


LOL I can almost assure you if I buy into btc now at $814., the price will be $288. by January 30.    I'll tell you guys if and when I buy, so you can position yourself for a huge crash ))  ..  It never fails !!

----------


## Neil Desmond

> LOL I can almost assure you if I buy into btc now at $814., the price will be $288. by January 30.    I'll tell you guys if and when I buy, so you can position yourself for a huge crash ))  ..  It never fails !!


Chute!  If it goes down to $288/btc, I'm going to spend every penny I have in my exchange account to buy bitcoins for that price!

Consider trying something like this: take whatever amount of dollars you're willing to trade for bitcoins, take a fraction of it (e.g., 1/4 or 1/5 of it), use that fraction to buy bitcoins @ $814/btc, and if it does go down to $288, use the remaining 3/4 or 4/5 of dollars remaining to buy more bitcoins at that price.  At least that way you'll have some bitcoins; and if the price does go down by that much, you'll have a good portion of your money left to be able to purchase bitcoins at that price.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> LOL I can almost assure you if I buy into btc now at $814., the price will be $288. by January 30.    I'll tell you guys if and when I buy, so you can position yourself for a huge crash ))  ..  It never fails !!


I'm guessing you didn't buy in...

----------


## XTreat

> LOL I can almost assure you if I buy into btc now at $814., the price will be $288. by January 30.    I'll tell you guys if and when I buy, so you can position yourself for a huge crash ))  ..  It never fails !!



I know you are saying this in jest, but please consider there are alternate ways to invest your fiat than just buying and selling in lump sums on the turn of the market. Dollar cost averaging works with btc just as well as it does with mutual funds in your IRA (or PM's as well). Consider just buying a small amount on a monthly or weekly basis instead of trying to time the market. In the long run you will probably be better off than trying to time the market unless you have an uncanny skill or immense knowledge of markets, which would make you a member of a small minority.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I know you are saying this in jest, but please consider there are alternate ways to invest your fiat than just buying and selling in lump sums on the turn of the market. Dollar cost averaging works with btc just as well as it does with mutual funds in your IRA (or PM's as well). Consider just buying a small amount on a monthly or weekly basis instead of trying to time the market. In the long run you will probably be better off than trying to time the market unless you have an uncanny skill or immense knowledge of markets, which would make you a member of a small minority.


Correct, buying into BTC doesn't mean you have to purchase one in full right up front. Consider buying .1 now and trend your buys accordingly. If you're bullish, it doesn't really matter what you buy your coins for now as long as you can get your hands on some and lock em down.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

A review of the BTCUSD Hourly chart at this moment shows that it is adhering nicely to the small penant ->


https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrfea5wz2z...20Jan%2014.jpg


Which means that if all holds true to form, in 6-8 hours time it should bounce off of somewhere around $945 and head back down oscillating its way towards 24 January where a decision will be required.  Will it be up from there or down?


If the past is our guide it should be down.  How far down?  Well it should be a gradual sloping down on the daily.  If its up and decidedly up, then watch out because we will have a break from the past and making predictions could get a bit more difficult going forward.


Also notice on the hourly the Bollinger Bands, blue on top and red on bottom.  As John Bollinger suggested, candles like to stay within these bands the majority of the time.  When they pierce the band a certain number of times in either direction you can generally expect a short term reversal in direction.


So at the beginning of the chart when all the green candles were piercing through the bands (by my count 8 times) in the move up to $972 and resistance, we could tell that a downward move was coming, particularly since a full moon was just hours away.


8 is quite a lot and from my experience the max you will find.  Usually you count 5 and then on the 6th one it reverses direction.


We are actually experiencing another 8 piercings at the moment, so perhaps a minor reversal or sideways action here before it moves up to test resistance.


Knowing this and playing the move from $875 to $945 is 8%.  0.5% to the exchange so 7.5% over 2-3 days is not too shabby.


Anyway, if you see BTC on Mt Gox range bound around a mean price of $920 to $930ish for the next 4 days this is why.  It will seem stuck going nowhere, but its using the time to figure out if its going to breakout or breakdown.


As a final aside, not sure how one can code such penant resistance and support line interpretations into a trading Bot, but if possible it could be very worthwhile to figure out.  Bots I have seen trade on moving averages and as you can see they are missing out on the best action.

----------


## Dianne

> I know you are saying this in jest, but please consider there are alternate ways to invest your fiat than just buying and selling in lump sums on the turn of the market. Dollar cost averaging works with btc just as well as it does with mutual funds in your IRA (or PM's as well). Consider just buying a small amount on a monthly or weekly basis instead of trying to time the market. In the long run you will probably be better off than trying to time the market unless you have an uncanny skill or immense knowledge of markets, which would make you a member of a small minority.


That was great advice, thank you !!

----------


## Dianne

> I'm guessing you didn't buy in...


My son was asking me to when it was around 12.00 ... I poo poo'ed the idea; now I'm positioned with fiat on the exchange to buy one btc if it stays around this price.   I would love to see it go back to $285. ish which is probably where it belongs.    But it is a great idea to throw a little in on a monthly basis instead of going "all in".

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> My son was asking me to when it was around 12.00 ... I poo poo'ed the idea; now I'm positioned with fiat on the exchange to buy one btc if it stays around this price.   I would love to see it go back to $285. ish which is probably where it belongs.    But it is a great idea to throw a little in on a monthly basis instead of going "all in".


I honestly doubt that's where it belongs.  If I'm not mistaken the mean increase is about .6% per day and that makes the mean price for now about twice that if not a little more.  It may go down, but I wouldn't count on it.  I'm no expert but it has been very bullish for the last few weeks.  I traded on the intermediate-term trends and made some money but I'm just going to hold for now regardless of whether it goes up or down.  I don't want to miss out if it starts breaking out.

----------


## Dianne

> I honestly doubt that's where it belongs.  If I'm not mistaken the mean increase is about .6% per day and that makes the mean price for now about twice that if not a little more.  It may go down, but I wouldn't count on it.  I'm no expert but it has been very bullish for the last few weeks.  I traded on the intermediate-term trends and made some money but I'm just going to hold for now regardless of whether it goes up or down.  I don't want to miss out if it starts breaking out.


I don't blame ya !!!   I would hold too ...   There are so many experiments with btc at the moment; who knows where it will lead.    Even the banksters may be testing the market to see how high they can bring it, before people back off.    I Sure would have preferred experimenting when it was $12.00; rather than $830.   My Bad, lol.

----------


## Neil Desmond

> I don't blame ya !!!   I would hold too ...   There are so many experiments with btc at the moment; who knows where it will lead.    Even the banksters may be testing the market to see how high they can bring it, before people back off.    I Sure would have preferred experimenting when it was $12.00; rather than $830.   My Bad, lol.


An alternative way of making an "investment" in bitcoins is to purchase bitcoin mining ASIC hardware, and mine bitcoins.  That's what I'm mainly doing to acquire bitcoins.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Most on here have heard of and often refer to Coinmarketcap.com to get an idea of the market cap (market capitalization . . . given this is largely an American audience, I will try to stick to relatable grammar and Z'ed's as required) for both the Cryptocurrency Marketplace in total and also a given Altcoin's price as compared to BTC:


http://coinmarketcap.com/


Firstly, if you are trading based on the crude market cap graphs shown on this site, and the reported percentage increases, then you will most likely be faced with disappointment after disappointment with your trades.


Market Cap is quite simply the known existing mined coin supply x the current price/coin.


To properly trade, and profit from your trading, you must have detailed chart information for a given equity, or in this case Crypto Coins.  An obvious observation to most on here, but some newies in the future, might find this post and might like to know this.


However, this site (coinmarketcap.com) is very useful in arriving at basic price discovery information, and particularly new coins coming to market which may be of interest.  Used in this context, it is very valuable.


Presently showing 78 coins, no doubt within 2-3 months we will see over 150 coins, if not 200 coins listed.  I remember first discovering this website and finding less than 10 coins listed, how things have changed in just 6 months.


So how do you decide if an obscure Altcoin might be a potential investment which is destined for a postive future?  Deriving a top 10 list makes sense to me, or namely to find your top 10 coins to watch besides Bitcoin.


First thing to remember is that no coin you see in this list alters majorly from the Bitcoin model, no matter the hype and spin we may read on the internet, and thus all are copycat coins to the Bitcoin Model.  Where Bitcoin shines is that it has survived the crucial 5 year introductory phase that is required for revolutionary internet startup ideas (1 Jan 2009 -> 1 Jan 2014), and so if the concept continues to gain traction this year of 2014 should be the year of a significant move in increased usage and price, just as the 5 year marker was critical to Facebook, Twitter and the likes.


This fellows video explains the concept quite well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI


Some coins have been created by developers knowing Bitcoin is gaining traction and popularity, and are hoping to profit themselves in the very short term, basically at your expense.  As an example, and as mentioned previously, we have 42Coin which is now trading around 400 BTC/Coin and headed to zero very fast (where it belongs), most likely before 8 Feb 14 - their proposed date of surpassing all other new Altcoin introductions with a market cap of $42,000,000.  Today the market cap for 42Coin is only $365,840 and this is not just a trend lower, this most likely is the highest you will ever see it again going forward from here.  The problem?  Miners are figuring out fast that it is very unprofitable short term to mine it, and are abandoning ship.  With no miners all that will be available to buy are the coins pre-mined by the developer, and they didn't mine all that many so it tells me they are anticipating a short lifespan for the coin.


Lets put it this way.  If you are a new coin developer with an idea for a new spin on things (e.g. only 42 coins ever to be available), and you introduce the coin to miners and the community in general, then you basically have less than a month to make money, pay for your expenses in developing the coin and then get your profits out (before you are discovered) . . . evidently the plan being persecuted by the 42Coin developers.  So if you can capture 80% of the ACTUAL market cap through pre-mining and pumping and dumping, or in this case $290K, then you are onto a good thing in your own terms aren't you, particularly if you are working out of your mothers basement or something.  ;-)  Then their is always that next coin idea right around the corner.  Sure beats buying a ton of paraffin and setting up a Candlestick factory in the basement.  :-)


So the next coin on the dodgy list is Quarkcoin.  Introduced late last year basically 80-90% pre-mined, today all 247,314,337 coins have been mined and its on a hope and a prayer that it goes up from here.  Not happening, never going to happen.  With a market cap of $25,755,967, 80% is a whopping $20.6 Million on this pump and dump scheme.  Just think of all the Candles you can buy with that.  Gee, enough to light up a small city for a few years.


So when looking at the coin list we definitely want to quickly be able to see % mined coins and know which are mined out and which are not.  We also want to know which coins are popular and are actively being mined to keep supply coming onto the market.


I can tell you that the following coins are also mostly mined out and so I wouldn't touch them:


Infinitecoin (IFC)
Zetacoin (ZET)
Ixcoin (IXC)


Will tell you how I know this in a minute.


The other problem with coinmarketcap.com is it includes coins that can't be mined (Ripples, Mastercoin, Nxt), or are actually shares and not coins (e.g. Protoshares), so this is like comparing apples to oranges.  Yes it is possible to switch off non-mineable coins to derive a top 10 list but Protoshares still hangs around.  And what of the total supply vs the total planned to be mined?


At any stage, to determine which coins are popular to the miners, it is useful to visit a site like www.multipool.us.  Without an account there I believe you can see the top 5 Scrypt coins and the top 5 Sha-256 coins being mined.  If it takes creating an account (free) to determine this info then it is worthwhile.  What multipool.us is, is a mining site where every minute the servers compute the most profitable coin to mine and it switches mining over to that coin.  As I type this EAC is the currently mined Scrypt coin and BTC is the currently mined Sha-256 coin.  Profitability is determined by a simple equation (example later) which is based on the current blockchain difficulty for the coin and up to the minute price movement up or down.  The problem is, as a miner in the pool, you end up with small bits of coins like EAC, ARG, CAP, MEC, MNC and the likes which are hard to get off multipool.us and over to an exchange to sell, because the minimum coin withdrawal amount is generally set to at least 1 coin.


As I mine through this site, it provides quick feedback during the day as to which Scrypt coin might be making a move up.  Then by tracking the weekly charts for what turns out to be very small number of coins, what I do is abandon the pool, but rather focus on mining certain coin on my own in anticipation that after mining 0.8 or 0.9 BTC's worth (7-8 days), I can then get them onto the exchange and convert them quickly into 1 BTC.  Its kinda like mining and trading at the same time, but it slowly adds more BTC into the trading account to trade those coins which I can't mine (e.g. BTC, PPC, XPM, NMC).


Another site for checking out an Altcoins price, difficulty and profitability is coinplorer.com.  Here we see why EAC has become more profitable given the recent minor uptick in price movement, however the long term price chart is not so encouraging so at the moment its not a coin to mine in my opinion (nor invest in), but rather just one to watch as of late its been in the top 5 mining list quite a bit.


Profitability formula found at Coinplorer:


MiningProfit(Date) = ExchangeRate(Date,EAC-BTC) * AvgDifficulty(Date,BTC) / AvgDifficulty(Date,EAC)


So what is the secret to discover a true apples to apples Altcoin top 10 list?


This site -> http://cryptmarketcap.com/


Here we don't find any coins which are un-mineable and Protoshares is not listed.  Also we can see verification that Quarkcoin is totally mined out already, so I abandon it visually as I scan the list.


One coin which is making a good move is Dogecoin, but notice how since its introduction around 8 December it is already 30% mined.  Over at Multipool.us during the past month, this is the coin which has been the top mined coin the majority of the time and so this is why.  It will be interesting over the next couple of months to see if it can catch up with NMC (which is 37% mined at the moment) in terms of Market Cap.


Worldcoin is interesting in the fact that it is only 15% mined yet still so high up on the list.  It wouldn't take much action for it to surpass Megacoin (MEC) - either mining or price movement.  After a nice move up around 8 December it has worked through a long period of consolidation so who knows it could be headed higher and just the coin to mine at the moment, in the run up to the end of the month.  One thing that put me off on Worldcoin was in downloading and synchronizing its wallet took me forever (10 days).  Since the start of the year WDC has been on the multipool top 5 list the majority of the time, usually in 4th or 5th place.  As an older coin, unlike BTC I couldn't find a Bootstrap torrent to download to speed things up.  Hopefully this will change for WDC so more people will find interest in it.  Otherwise the developers seem to be putting effort into their website and in creating a following.  So at this moment I will put WDC near the top of my Top 5 list for mining.


Statistically speaking, over at multipool.us (and for this you do need to register an account to find this information), of the coins being mined, here is the percentage of miners who are mining each coin:


Dogecoin (DOGE) - 80% - Just switched back to being the main pool coin
Earthcoin (EAC) - 15% - residual mining following the recent switch to DOGE
Worldcoin (WDC) - 2.6%
Mooncoin (MOON) - 0.8%
Litecoin (LTC) - 0.6%
Digitalcoin (DGC) - 0.5%
Remainder of 20 Mineable Coins - <1%


So based on this continued support for mining Dogecoin, regardless of price its Market Cap should continue to rise and I anticipate it will overtake Quarkcoin in the listings at cryptmarketcap.com very quickly (2 weeks?).


From my experiences Litecoin is now just too unprofitable to mine based on the rapidly rising difficulty.  Therefore it rarely ranks in the top 5 list at Multipool.  There are a number of other dedicated mining sites for it (e.g. wemineltc.com), so based on popularity it will continue to grow in Market Cap.  Basically it is now close to 30% mined and I suspect the strong mining rate will continue, just that it will rarely show up as profitable as compared to other alternatives (e.g. how quick to turn mining efforts into 1 BTC).


If you scroll down the list at coinmarketcap.com to 53rd place you will find Mooncoin and a 311% move on the day, which is quite a surprise to me.  Mooncoin is not yet listed on cryptmarketcap.com.  Will share a story about Mooncoin in another post.


Hopefully something here assists in sorting through the Altcoins and deriving your own Top 10 list of coins to watch.  For the moment here is mine:


Trading Potential (Top 10)


Bitcoin (BTC)
Litecoin (LTC)
Peercoin (PPC)
Namecoin (NMC)
Primecoin (XPM)
Worldcoin (WDC)
Novacoin (NVC)
Feathercoin (FTC)
Megacoin (MEC)
Digitalcoin (DGC)
Dogecoin (DOGE)


Mining Potential (Top 6)


Worldcoin (WDC)
Dogecoin (DOGE)
Argentum (ARG)
Megacoin (MEC)
Digitalcoin (DGC)
Mooncoin (MOON) - Mining Completed

----------


## SomewhereInOz

While typing all that, it appears BTCUSD has hit penant resistance, tested it and for the moment headed back down:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwujp59ppf...%2014%20-2.jpg

Only two piercings of the upper BB shown here, but on the 5 minute chart there were 6 attempts to escape the upper Bollinger Band there and it didn't like it and decided to turn back down.  If daytrading this, you would probably be trading off the 5 minute at this stage and planning your best spot place to sell.  Max price achieved looks to be $960, but on the daily it will probably appear to be closer to $945ish.

So from here we go back down, or do we?  There is no hard and fast rule that BTC needs to stay in this Penant, it can leave at anytime it wishes.  It's just that the majority of the time it will adhere to the Penant until completion and then decide.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't blame ya !!!   I would hold too ...   There are so many experiments with btc at the moment; who knows where it will lead.    Even the banksters may be testing the market to see how high they can bring it, before people back off.    I Sure would have preferred experimenting when it was $12.00; rather than $830.   My Bad, lol.


Yes, many of us were aware of BTC early and yet did nothing, myself included.  It will sting me for a long time that I didn't act when I first heard of it, but I'm not dwelling on it.  There's still money to be made.  If I had simply held when I first bought in, I could have realized an 11x return but alas, I lost interest after the first crash, too.  It is what it is.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Live Bitcoin trading hangout on Google+ and streamed live as a Youtube Live Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Hqb4AT-hI

Usually runs 4 hours this time of the day.  Can always listen to it after the show is over by visiting YouTube to hear the completed video.

Go to YT, Search "Bitcoin Bonavest", narrow search to "Today" to find the most recent one.

Website - www.bonavest.com

Facebook - www.facebook.com/bonavest

This started out as a group of guys just chatting about Bitcoin Trading on Skype and then around the 2nd week of December turned into a Google+/Youtube Live Hangout.

Will learn a lot here, and also see some mistakes being made to learn from before you make them.  New to trading Cryptos?  Best advice is to listen in for a couple of weeks, pick up on the tools required, download them and then perhaps start trading with very small BTC amounts till you get the hang of it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Live Bitcoin trading hangout on Google+ and streamed live as a Youtube Live Video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Hqb4AT-hI


On today's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Hqb4AT-hI

if you head to 34:00 and listen in for a few minutes, you will hear a 2014 mid-year prediction for BTC, basically now + 7 months, and how its arrived at.

$7-$8K/BTC

. . . and judging how BTCUSD @ Mt. Gox has just smashed through the small penant, hmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .

Remember, daily candle is not complete yet, so it can spike higher if it wishes so long as the daily candle is contained by the penant.

Only saving grace at the moment in previous charts provided is that Huobi seems to bringing sense to the situation and not following along.

Lets just say that if Huobi moves through 5300 with strength anytime soon, I would be a little bit nervous not having bedded down some BTC apriori.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hhatjr0op...20Jan%2014.jpg

----------


## muh_roads

Out at 841, at least with the portion I allow myself to play with.  It'll probably go up more now.

Still hanging on to NMC & LTC.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Probably a well timed decision.  Counting the candlewicks above the Bollinger Band on the Mt. Gox hourly this is our 6th.  True to form the 7th candlestick should be a red one and headed down particularly since the Huobi current hourly candle is red and falling.

----------


## btcltc

> Probably a well timed decision.  Counting the candlewicks above the Bollinger Band on the Mt. Gox hourly this is our 6th.  True to form the 7th candlestick should be a red one and headed down particularly since the Huobi current hourly candle is red and falling.


What will happen in 10 days.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> What will happen in 10 days.




Referring back to this chart, in 10 days time we will be at our next New Moon in the cycle.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/b3v2ws9ov0...%20Penance.jpg


What I have been trying to do is pin down any correlation between the lunar cycle and the price action in both BTC and the major Altcoins.


Price action in BTC certainly seems to be correlated with New Moons in terms price spikes and Full Moons with spike lows.


However this is not to say that every New Moon will be a spike high for BTC particularly as this current consolidation continues on, in fact some New Moons will be downright boring for BTC.


We are still working off of the model that BTC is playing out price consolidation following a spike in accordance with the April 2013 move and trying to project on into Feb/March what the price will be.  The blue dashed line in the above chart is the best guess projection that I can come up with at this time.

Of course those of us who wish to buy more are hoping for a collapse back down to the long term trend and a price around $300.  Not looking like its going to happen.


However, enter the wild card . . . Chinese New Year 2014.


This year it is on 31 January 2014 which is coincidentally close to our upcoming New Moon on 30 January 2014.


Having worked with a company in China in the past, what happens around Chinese New Year is that workers get their one chance a year to have a 7 or so day holiday and return to the countryside to visit with relatives.  Much of the manufacturing slows or shuts down during this time.  So what?  How does this impact BTC and the Cryptos?


Well as we know the Huobi and BTC China, etc. and the trading of BTC is currently driving this market via these exchanges, particularly the Huobi trades the most volume.


So could it be that the growing middle-class in China, or even just a small percentage of that middle-class will decide that this is the year to instead of giving gold or silver or whatever as a gift to ring in the New Year, this year it will be just one Bitcoin times oh a few hundred thousand to a couple of million?


Hmmmmm, could it be not so coincidental that the Chinese Govt has chosen precisely this date (the end of January) to have the new banking regulations take effect for good reason?


Its something to think about.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

7th Candle red, 8th Candle red and 9th looking red.  QED

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hul9dfd5fk...%2014%20-3.jpg

Now get back in that penant and play there like you are supposed to BTC  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> This year it is on 31 January 2014 which is *coincidentally* close to our upcoming New Moon on 30 January 2014.


Not so coincidental, its also called "Lunar New Year" so its supposed to fall on the day after the New Moon . . . Duh!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_New_Year


"Within China, regional customs and traditions concerning the celebration of the Chinese new year vary widely. Often, the evening preceding Chinese New Year's Day is an occasion for Chinese families to gather for the annual reunion dinner. It is also traditional for every family to thoroughly cleanse the house, in order to sweep away any ill-fortune and to make way for good incoming luck. Windows and doors will be decorated with red color paper-cuts and couplets with *popular themes of "good fortune" or "happiness", "wealth", and "longevity." Other activities include lighting firecrackers and giving money in red paper envelopes.*"


Hmmmm, this year a *red paper envelope* containing a USB stick with a Bitcoin Wallet onboard?  ;-)

Just be watching the charts in the next 10 days is all I can say.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Well lookee here, Moon Coin (MOON) 51 has just vaulted ahead of Ron Paul Coin (RPC) 52

http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html

Market Cap increase of 354% yesterday and so far 120% today.

Negligble increase in mined supply, so the price action must be what is doing it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

That didn't take long:

http://cryptmarketcap.com/

Much Wow!

Soon it will be giving Namecoin a run for the money?  Wouldn't that be such funny :-)

Love this one -> http://i2.wp.com/reviewoutlaw.com/wp...014/01/cat.jpg

http://static2.businessinsider.com/i...es-in-2013.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> That didn't take long:
> 
> http://cryptmarketcap.com/
> 
> Much Wow!
> 
> Soon it will be giving Namecoin a run for the money?  Wouldn't that be such funny :-)
> 
> Love this one -> http://i2.wp.com/reviewoutlaw.com/wp...014/01/cat.jpg
> ...


I laugh, but if bought a week ago and sold today a tidy 300% return.  That's a heapin' helpin' of WOOF!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

DOGE is on a rampage, you might want to be watching this:

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/per...market=cryptsy

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Trading Potential (Top 10)
> 
> 
> Bitcoin (BTC)
> Litecoin (LTC)
> Peercoin (PPC)
> Namecoin (NMC)
> Primecoin (XPM)
> Worldcoin (WDC)
> ...


https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpho7o46zi...n-DogeCoin.jpg

Darn, wished I had pegged DOGE right behind NMC earlier today and switched to mining it again earlier.  Oh well mined another 4000 in the last couple of hours.

Now $9 Million away from NMC in Market Cap, at one stage earlier it was only $4 Million away.

I suggested that in jest earlier, it will never catch NMC I thought to myself.

But I guess when you have 32 Billion coins existing it doesn't take much of a move to really jump in Market Cap terms.

Picked up a few @ 117, now at 149.  Will stick around a bit and see how this plays out.

Now that North America is awakening, maybe someone will romp in a grab a good chunk of the Sell Orders and snap up my outrageous offer  :-)

And how about that Mooncoin?  Last week barely on the Market Cap chart.  Only available at CoinEx to buy as far as I know.  Sent a msg to Cryptsy inquiring and they responded the other day that they will consider it as a potential new coin.  Yesterday 350% gain, today so far 219% gain and now just 2 spots away from the "big promises" 42Coin.  That's so funny!  :-)

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## Dianne

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpho7o46zi...n-DogeCoin.jpg
> 
> Darn, wished I had pegged DOGE right behind NMC earlier today and switched to mining it again earlier.  Oh well mined another 4000 in the last couple of hours.
> 
> Now $9 Million away from NMC in Market Cap, at one stage earlier it was only $4 Million away.
> 
> Mooncoin is also on Coinedup, the same exchange that trades RonPaulCoin.
> 
> Are you thinking dogecoin will actually go somewhere longterm?    If so I need to pick some up while they are so cheap.
> ...


Mooncoin is also available on Coinedup .... same exchange that is trading ronpaulcoin.      Are you thinking dogecoin has a future?   If so, I better scoop some up while they are so cheap.

----------


## btcltc

> Referring back to this chart, in 10 days time we will be at our next New Moon in the cycle.
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b3v2ws9ov0...%20Penance.jpg
> 
> 
> What I have been trying to do is pin down any correlation between the lunar cycle and the price action in both BTC and the major Altcoins.
> 
> 
> ...


So........... whats your final conclusion? Will the bitcoin prices and altcoin prices drop a little like it did some weeks ago when NMC dropped to 5 dollars and BTC to 7xx?

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## SomewhereInOz

> Mooncoin is also available on Coinedup .... same exchange that is trading ronpaulcoin.      Are you thinking dogecoin has a future?   If so, I better scoop some up while they are so cheap.


Oh yeah the DOGE lives alright.  I'll be watching it from here on in.


Peaked its market cap @ $44 Million, then dropped back to $32 Million, now back up to $39 Million.  Should bounce around a bit till it gets used to being the #5 mined coin.


Will need this before it takes a run at #4 Namecoin I reckon.


I would grab a few and hold on a bit and see where it ends up.  Very easy to mine though.  Difficulty a bit harder than when I mined them before, but still have been able to manage 20,000 more so far tonight.


Definitely I will have to re-examine my top 10 list and shed a few coins after this evenings performances.


WOW how about that Mooncoin?  Kind of forgot all about it with all the BTC charting etc.  Noticed it had snuck onto the list late last week at around 72nd postion.  Then tonight I looked and it was sneaking up on Ron Paul @ #52.  Next thing I knew it was overtaking 42Coin @ #43.  Then it was onto Unobtanium @ #40.  I figured surely it would stop there.  Nope.  Next it moved up and nestled under Earthcoin @ #33.  OK I figured Earthcoin-Mooncoin, a good spot to stop.  Nope, now its sitting @ #31 with a $738,822 Market Cap and a 437% gain on the day so far after a 350% gain yesterday.  Incredible!


Sure glad I discovered its introduction to the public for mining on 30 December.  Virgin Block chain and the Wallet Syncronised in 3 minutes flat.  Zero Pre-Mine.  Beauty!!!  So in the ensuing 9 days I managed to nab 26 Million of the suckers.  Damn why did I stop!


These Mooncoins were arriving in my wallet at the rate of 200,000 to 300,000 every hour back then.  Originally I thought I would only mine 10 Million but that was only going to take a short time.  By 25 Million I thought OK stop, 25 Million nothings is still nothing.  So by the time I stopped mining, another million were still committed and they just kept coming down the pipe.  :-)


Kinda funny when you think about it.  A story for the grandkids . . . "you know sonny, back in the day when I was a Crypto-Miner, there was this thing called Mooncoin, and . . . . . . ."

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## SomewhereInOz

> Mooncoin is also available on Coinedup .... same exchange that is trading ronpaulcoin.      Are you thinking dogecoin has a future?   If so, I better scoop some up while they are so cheap.


Oh yeah the DOGE lives alright.  I'll be watching it from here on in.


Peaked its market cap @ $44 Million, then dropped back to $32 Million, now back up to $39 Million.  Should bounce around a bit till it gets used to being the #5 mined coin.


Will need this before it takes a run at #4 Namecoin I reckon.


I would grab a few and hold on a bit and see where it ends up.  Very easy to mine though.  Difficulty a bit harder than when I mined them before, but still have been able to manage 20,000 more so far tonight.


Definitely I will have to re-examine my top 10 list and shed a few coins after this evenings performances.


WOW how about that Mooncoin?  Kind of forgot all about it with all the BTC charting etc.  Noticed it had snuck onto the list late last week at around 72nd postion.  Then tonight I looked and it was sneaking up on Ron Paul @ #52.  Next thing I knew it was overtaking 42Coin @ #43.  Then it was onto Unobtanium @ #40.  I figured surely it would stop there.  Nope.  Next it moved up and nestled under Earthcoin @ #33.  OK I figured Earthcoin-Mooncoin, a good spot to stop.  Nope, now its sitting @ #31 with a $738,822 Market Cap and a 437% gain on the day so far after a 350% gain yesterday.  Incredible!


Sure glad I discovered its introduction to the public for mining on 30 December.  Virgin Block chain and the Wallet Syncronised in 3 minutes flat.  Zero Pre-Mine.  Beauty!!!  So in the ensuing 9 days I managed to nab 26 Million of the suckers.  Damn why did I stop!


These Mooncoins were arriving in my wallet at the rate of 200,000 to 300,000 every hour back then.  Originally I thought I would only mine 10 Million but that was only going to take a short time.  By 25 Million I thought OK stop, 25 Million nothings is still nothing.  So by the time I stopped mining, another million were still committed and they just kept coming down the pipe.  :-)


Kinda funny when you think about it.  A story for the grandkids . . . "you know sonny, back in the day when I was a Crypto-Miner, there was this thing called Mooncoin, and . . . . . . ."

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> So........... whats your final conclusion? Will the bitcoin prices and altcoin prices drop a little like it did some weeks ago when NMC dropped to 5 dollars and BTC to 7xx?


With BTC it appears to me that what we are seeing right now is just a normal retracement on another typical bull run up.  I had hoped it would move back down into the penant I have drawn to the area around $930 (Mt. Gox) with a trend towards a bounce off of support at what would be $905 through say the next 12-18 hours.


Over on TradingView.com I have been following a few other chartists who use all kinds of additional charting tricks and elliot wave hocus pocus.  A few of them are pointing to a move up to $1020 either through a direct move from here or a reversal first to $905 and then up to $1020.


So it looks to me at this moment like we are headed up to test the main penant within the next 12-18 hours and spot on, it would be at a price of $1020 based on my chart posted earlier.  This is not good news for those wanting to get more cheap, because the longer we stay up towards the top of the main penant the better the chances of a breakout.


The Huobi is still down around 5018.  As indicated 5300 is the danger point over there for a breakout.


In terms of the Altcoins having a drop, particularly PPC, NMC and XPM, we are experiencing this already.  The only reason it is not as severe as 18-20 December is because BTC spiked down to $451 on 16 December and it took these 3 Altcoins 2-3 days to figure out they needed to dip quite a bit lower.  This time around BTC has not experienced that major dip and so the adjustment is far less.


PPC for example has been down a bit today, has fought its way back and is right now wrestling with the upper band of the Ichimoku Cloud on the 1 hour chart.  During the last Full Moon cycle PPC had a need to take a run from 0.00370 up to 0.00542 to get back on track all within 2-3 days of the Full Moon drop.  This time around it probably won't need to do that, so I would expect PPC to stay fairly flat for the next 2 to 2.5 days, and then we will see the beginning of the next Breakout.  So right now its 5 AM Tuesday for me.  Lets look at sometime around noon on Thursday for the start of a breakout.  Subtract 14 hours and you get EST in the US - Wed at 10 PM?


PPC, NMC and XPM kinda work together.  When one goes they all get excited within 6-12 hours of each other.  How high will this breakout be?  Can't be sure.  That all comes back to what BTC is doing at the time.  I was looking for a fairly flat BTC price through this next 7 day period, but if its to decide not to adhere to the April 2013 Spike-Consolidation then I think we will discover this in the next 12-24 hours with BTC attempting to break out of the larger penant ($1020?).  If that happens and its dramatic, then probably best to stay in BTC until it settles this time around.

Its late, forgive if anything doesn't make sense . . . need sleep  :-)

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## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eujgavz7po...in%20Chart.jpg

Of course its confusing that we have 3 different charts for 3 different exchanges.

Above is a quick and dirty of the two penants on BTC-e.  As you can see a much different picture is presented because we are nowhere near breaking out of the small penant.  In fact we are close to breaking down.

Also I'm referring to $900 prices and others are referring to $800 prices.

Would it not make better sense to work around one standard exchange for discussion purposes on this forum?  and if so which should it be?  BTC-e because it trades larger volumes?  I've only chosen Mt. Gox because its the first BTCUSD chart I found on TradingView back in December.

Chime in with opinions, would be happy to change the charts.

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## SomewhereInOz

Its kind of Ironic.  160 years ago all around where I am sitting would have been Chinese miners, sleeping under canvas, hoping to strike it rich mining Gold by digging small 2 metre deep trenches by hand.  Most ended up broke, and the people who made the real money were the blacksmiths, the mining equipment suppliers, the tent vendors and the food merchants.  Of course the pubs did a booming trade.  At one point in the 1980's there were still 68 pubs in the city.  In fact this city has the longest Chinese Dragons in the world which come out on display each year during the Easter Festival, a leftover from those days.  Less than a kilometer away lay a gold deposit which once extracted was the largest in the Commonwealth to that point in time, basically a hill probably no bigger than 300 meters x 100 meters.  Diggers travelled from all over the world in hopes of striking it rich in the Central Victorian Goldfields.


Now here we sit behind computers travelling all over the world hoping to mine and trade profits in Crypto-Currency, and all the while watching every move the Chinese make in the process.  Hows that for things coming full circle?  :-)  So abundant was the alluvial gold when first discovered around here that some creek beds were yielding 1000 Kg nuggets right on the surface.  Of course by 1854 those were all snapped up.  For 10's of thousands of years Aboriginees probably stubbed their toes on the things and cursed them . . . "damned yellow rock, too soft no good for clubs to kill Roo's but still they hurt when we stub our toes on them".  :-)


Under this city about a Kilometer down there's heaps of gold still, so much that a local company has spent millions to build a portal and a roadway winding down a kilometer deep to haul out the quartz and process it above ground.  However, at this stage the mining is at a standstill.  Why?  Gold price is so low, can't make a profit.  The Banksters say, "ah forget about that ancient relic its not worth anything, why would you want gold anyway?".  Meanwhile the London Bullion Vault is now bare and China is grabbing it with both hands as fast as they can get it.  Very strange times indeed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p68jb1bj53gj228/Mooncoin.jpg


Anyway, here's the Mooncoin wallet.  The very first thing I noticed after downloading it and Sync'ing it, and then deciding to create a Shortcut for the desktop was that low and behold, isn't that a DOGE I see?  What's that doing on a Mooncoin Wallet?  Lightbulb moment!  Perhaps they have fixed it with Mooncoin wallet Edition 2 and later, but something told me then and there that the DOGE developers were behind Mooncoin and if so, given the spin and hype they were able to generate around Dogecoin on Social Media, and the huge intraday price spike we saw shortly after its initial release to the market, and eBay prices of $850 for 1 Million DOGE's, meant the same thing would be happening to this thing, so get mining!!!  Yessir!  Is it any wonder we saw them both move up in tandem today?  No surprise at all.

Sometimes it pays to hang out on Troll Boxes and listen to what all the Scrypt Kiddies are talking about eh? ;-)

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## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eujgavz7po...in%20Chart.jpg
> 
> Of course its confusing that we have 3 different charts for 3 different exchanges.
> 
> Above is a quick and dirty of the two penants on BTC-e.  As you can see a much different picture is presented because we are nowhere near breaking out of the small penant.  In fact we are close to breaking down.
> 
> Also I'm referring to $900 prices and others are referring to $800 prices.
> 
> Would it not make better sense to work around one standard exchange for discussion purposes on this forum?  and if so which should it be?  BTC-e because it trades larger volumes?  I've only chosen Mt. Gox because its the first BTCUSD chart I found on TradingView back in December.
> ...


I've personally used Bitstamp because it seems to be the most "normal" of them all.  To me, Mt. Gox is just out there.  I have never used it, and I hear complaints about it all the time.  If you wanted to use BTC-e, I could go along with that, but Bitstamp is the first one I found, so that's the one I'm using.  

Huobi, of course, is the leader, so it is crucial to the analysis as always, but in terms of USD prices, I'm going with Bitstamp for now unless I'm in the minority.

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## PaulConventionWV

Somewhere, could you explain again why quark is a junk coin?  My dad doesn't seem to understand and is convinced that Bill Still is right when he says it's going to increase in value.  

It did just get added to another exchange, do you see any potential for it?  Why can't it be viable long-term?

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## Dianne

So mooncoin had huge increases, but it's now at $ 3.1e-05 .   Does anyone know what that converts to in US fiat?

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## XTreat

> At any stage, to determine which coins are popular to the miners, it is useful to visit a site like www.multipool.us.  Without an account there I believe you can see the top 5 Scrypt coins and the top 5 Sha-256 coins being mined.  If it takes creating an account (free) to determine this info then it is worthwhile.  What multipool.us is, is a mining site where every minute the servers compute the most profitable coin to mine and it switches mining over to that coin.  As I type this EAC is the currently mined Scrypt coin and BTC is the currently mined Sha-256 coin.  Profitability is determined by a simple equation (example later) which is based on the current blockchain difficulty for the coin and up to the minute price movement up or down.  The problem is, as a miner in the pool, you end up with small bits of coins like EAC, ARG, CAP, MEC, MNC and the likes which are hard to get off multipool.us and over to an exchange to sell, because the minimum coin withdrawal amount is generally set to at least 1 coin.


Not quite right on Multipool, I have been mining this site for a few months and it is very profitable precisely because of what you stated regarding the formula it uses to determine profitability. 

However, it is not difficult at all to get the coin off of Multipool, even if it switches around often you can set it to automatically send the coin to a given address when it reaches a pre-determined number chosen by you. I have my coins sent to Cryptsy, which has a useful tool that allows the site to trade alt coins for BTC immediately upon deposit. So what winds up happening is your alt coins are traded for BTC almost precisely when arbitrage is most favorable to you. 



If you want to make an account at cryptsy, which I personally use and recommend, please use this link:

https://www.cryptsy.com/users/register?refid=21357

I get a referral bonus

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## PaulConventionWV

> So mooncoin had huge increases, but it's now at $ 3.1e-05 .   Does anyone know what that converts to in US fiat?


It's scientific notation for $0.000031 which is like 3 thousandths of a penny.

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## SomewhereInOz

I guess we can now reject the small penant at Mt. Gox as being significant any longer.  Broken through it and seems headed on up to test at around $1020.  Next 24-36 hours.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/trq7s9a5bx...20Jan%2014.jpg


On BTC-e


https://www.dropbox.com/s/sckt1d4u1h...20Jan%2014.jpg


Small Penant is probably also rejected.  Its moved through support but is moving sideways to rising a bit.  The two resistance lines may be significant for trading going forward however.


Perhaps @ $1020 Gox we will see $930 @ BTC-e being the point where both begin to move lower or will each exchange exhibit totally different responses to their respective resistance lines?


Huobi 4989 and moving sideways, MACD not showing any improvements soon so this is a good thing and should set the trend overall.

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## muh_roads

hmm, to play and sleep on it or not...'tis the question.  I generally like to clear out my trades before putting my head to the pillow.  What are you gonna do Oz?

$930 BTC-e is about $910-920 Bitstamp I figure.

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## SomewhereInOz

Can someone who knows multipool.us explain this to me?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/k75rl1n1ui...ngMooncoin.jpg


I stopped mining Mooncoin on 9 January because I figured 25,000,000 was enough.  So last night and today I have been receiving Mooncoin transactions, 4 so far.  I just figured some kind soul on here took the time to type out the wallet address and send a few tips to get me over 26,000,000.  Was going to say thanks.


Then I noticed the sending address is Multipool.us.  As noted in the image, since last night I have been mining only DOGE's.  Notice the hash rate of 8249, this is about right for my setup in mining DOGE's.  I should be able to tweak that up to 9600 by fiddling with the cgminer scripts.


I have one computer here with one of the 4 GPU's that is not being recognized since we had a power brownout during the recent heat wave.  Was going to do some surgery on it (reseat the GPU's, disconnect and reconnect the power cables, etc.) first before commencing a new Mooncoin mining campaign.  For now mining DOGE's would be fine I figured.


So why is Multipool.us sending out free Mooncoins?  About 115,000 so far.


Maybe its a reward compensation thing for early miners?


Then again maybe their servers are stuck on stupid, and they will just keep coming and coming and I needn't mine Mooncoin ever again.  :-)


Will let you know how it goes.

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## amonasro

> Somewhere, could you explain again why quark is a junk coin?  My dad doesn't seem to understand and is convinced that Bill Still is right when he says it's going to increase in value.  
> 
> It did just get added to another exchange, do you see any potential for it?  Why can't it be viable long-term?


AFAIK Quark is heavily pre-mined, meaning developers get a huge share before it goes public. Beyond that I don't know much about it. All these different altcoins create an interesting situation in that if even a small amount of money goes into them, they are heavily speculated on. Not sure what that means in the long run but it probably isn't good for coins with little infrastructure/community/ways to use. I've seen many junkcoins go the way of the Dodo already via pump & dump. Then again, cryptocurrencies are mostly copycats of Bitcoin and Litecoin, so the technology is there and Satoshi's design lives on through them, which apparently is worth quite a bit for the alts with staying power.

I really don't like Dogecoin but the whole "toy cryptocurrency" is hard to ignore from a marketing perspective. I mine it, then trade up for Bitcoin. It is far more profitable than mining Bitcoin directly. I only have 2x7970 mining and traded up 300k dogecoins for BTC, then cashed out $130 on Coinbase; about a week's worth of mining. And that was before the recent price run up, I should have waited!

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## SomewhereInOz

I know what you mean.  Going to sleep with active trades tends to mean an awakening to a nasty surprise.

I'm not liking the Huobi's MACD right now as support for further dramatic upwards movement over say an 8 hour sleep, perhaps best to be out and see where its sitting in the morning when you awaken.

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## muh_roads

Yep, sleeping on it sounds best.  Not a lot of movement during the night lately anyway.

The numbers are pretty funny on coinwarz.  I want that Unobtanium.
A person could grab 1% of these economies with not much effort.

Dogecoin, 5 year trailing start and a 100 billion supply cap jesus lots of people are gonna get $#@!ed up the ass dogestyle.

Mooncoin, 384.4 billion supply cap.  The moon landing was a hoax.

It'll be interesting to see if these alts will move with the next BTC paradigm.  I will give them this, they do have the double advantage of having their own value on top of being denominated in BTC going for them.

But if BTC = Oil and Alts = USD, eventually the USD can't hold its own forever either even when backed with manipulated stability which alts don't get the benefit of.  The USD doesn't hold Oil back...it just gets left behind.

I personally think people are going to get $#@!ed pretty hard, unless they are just thinking about alts as a means to acquire more BTC.  The RPC worship is concerning.  There will be serious bag holders and tears in the near future with these alts.  Even Litecoin concerns me because of all the Scrypt-coins out there.

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## SomewhereInOz

Holy Crap! DOGE-spikeamania


http://cryptmarketcap.com/


It's flown past NMC like it wasn't even there.  174% increase . . . what the?


Watch out Peercoin, your unlimited supply plans could well be a problem going forward.


Again, in a months time could this be the Gold, Silver, Bronze picture we are looking at?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpho7o46zi...n-DogeCoin.jpg


Thought I would have a fiddle with 0.2 BTC @ DOGE 117 last night just as a play.  But now that its up over 200% already wished I had gone in with more.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/le7flntemo...pikeamania.jpg


My current sell order @ 700 noting that DOGE likes to do the intra-day spike high thing as its done it 3 times in the past.  Maybe I need to reconsider and just sit on those little DOGES and watch them howl at their MOONIE sibbling to rise up and join 'em.


All of this was wishful thinking even just 3 days ago.  Shows how everything can turn on a dime with the Cryptos.  Full of surprises.

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## SomewhereInOz

> Yep, sleeping on it sounds best.  Not a lot of movement during the night lately anyway.
> 
> The numbers are pretty funny on coinwarz.  I want that Unobtanium.
> A person could grab 1% of these economies with not much effort.
> 
> Dogecoin, 5 year trailing start and a 100 billion supply cap jesus lots of people are gonna get $#@!ed up the ass dogestyle.
> 
> Mooncoin, 384.4 billion supply cap.  The moon landing was a hoax.
> 
> ...



A bit of Barnesy while you read this one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erSJGrpfnOI


One thing to remember going forward, as more and more people wake up to this the working class man/woman without much investment capital needs to be able to find an option to get on board.  I am talking about the average worker, the high school student, the college student the uni student who currently has a cool gaming machine that can quickly be utilized as a mining rig while s/he is away at school, studying or sleeping.  Very easy to turn off and turn on a cgminer script for those times when you want to do some work on the computer or play a couple of hours of games.


So right now the thing propelling coins like DOGE and MOON is perhaps the fact that we are see a 6-8 week latency effect following the 4 December 2013 BTC price spike and awakening, and heaps of people with just such readily available computing power jumping on board.  Either that or they've setup accounts at the minor exchanges like Cryptsy, CoinEx or CoinedUp and are pushing along the DOGE/MOON speculative bubble thinking this is their ticket to an easy few hundred bucks.


Is it going to pop for each of these coins.  Probably it will, but that will only be when the next speculative coin is attacked by these ever increasing minor miners.  This will be perhaps an existing coin or maybe it will be a brand new coin that the DOGE team will come up with.  They in my opinion have figured out the secret to creating a coin and hitting the Social Media networks with the marketing.


In keeping with the planetary theme I suppose we can expect to see a Venuscoin, a Marscoin, a Jupitercoin shortly.  I personally will be mining big time when I see Uranuscoin introduced.  Baaadumbah . . . tell your friends, I'm here all week  :-)


Trick is, how do we figure out what that next speculative coin will be?  As indicated, I think it will be worthwhile to keep an ear to the ground in the mining community troll boxes and keep listening to what they are all chatting about.

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## SomewhereInOz

> Somewhere, could you explain again why quark is a junk coin?  My dad doesn't seem to understand and is convinced that Bill Still is right when he says it's going to increase in value.  
> 
> It did just get added to another exchange, do you see any potential for it?  Why can't it be viable long-term?


I remember getting all excited at seeing Bill Still's video on 28 November as well.  A good chance to watch it again but this time pay particular attention to his body language.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIkpZ73GMG4


By his own admission in the video, he is not an expert on the Cryptos and is newly involved in them at that point in time.


Full Disclosure:  At the intro to the video he mentions he 'owns' a position in Quarkcoin, the proper thing to do.


Watching the video again it leaves me with this question, as he does not fully describe at that stage that a full 90% of the coin had been mined and that the remaining 10% would be mined out by 31 December 2013.


Question:  How did he gain this ownership position in Quarkcoin?  Could it be the developers knew he was a respected economic adviser with a widespread following on the Internet and put a bug in his ear and a 20-30 Million Quarkcoins into his wallet to spruik it for what they anticipated would be an amazing financial gain?


Quarkcoin chart time:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymbzi5s0sc...20Nov%2013.jpg


After this interview was aired on Quarkcoin, it quickly saw a 7300% gain.  Bingo!  Must have made the developers much smile and very happy.  Very worthwhile to shed those 20-30 Million Quarks for such a gain.  ;-)


Always be suspicious of ANY cryptocurrency spruiker who all of a sudden has a 'bolt from heaven moment' and all of a sudden begins promoting a majorly pre-mined coin such as Quarkcoin.


100% ROI for the future from here?  Highly doubtful.  Could be, but why would anyone settle for a 100% ROI on Quarkcoin when you can get a 1000% ROI elsewhere.  Something to think about.  In a word its deadsville.


Then there is this Clif High Wujo (16 December 2013) which specifically saw Quarkcoin in the short-term immediacy Web Bot data as being the one coin that was a Con-coin and would shock the world by falling away to $0 very early in 2014:


http://www.halfpasthuman.com/audio/w...62013quark.mp3


Only need to listen for first 15 mins.


I think a follow on Wujo in later December was the one where the Death of Quarkcoin was predicted with a specific date in late January.  You will have to dig through is site to find it:

www.halfpasthuman.com


Must really take on board Clif's discussion however of 'network effect', and understand how and why DOGE and MOON are doing so well.  Network Effect is EVERYTHING!  Without Network Effect then the vast majority of the 75 Altcoins are basically dead already.


Will say it again, no coins left to mine, means Quarkcoin is dead.  Whereas too many other Altcoins provide the opportunity to make money, then Quarkcoin has nowhere left to go but down.


Quarkcoin not "IS" a Pump and Dump scheme.  Quarkcoin "WAS" an early December Pump and Dump scheme and now we are seeing the inevitable January end result.


Can't be viable long term because there is nothing left to mine and the whole world has turned its back to it now.


The price now is 8.8 cents.  Consider it lucky to get that, because tomorrow it could be 7 cents.  The day after 6 cents, etc. etc.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news if your Dad is a Quark owner.  If not, then this is a good thing.

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## SomewhereInOz

Damn it all if that Mooncoin isn't at it again.

http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html

31st place and an $856K market cap now.  Should be moving up to compete with the likes of LOT, EAC and TRC soon.

Ideally will rest in the high teens on the list.

Just wish these guys would start listing it, so we could see the mined vs remainder to be mined numbers:

http://cryptmarketcap.com/

The Moon . . . Earth's only naturally orbiting satellite with a major influence on the Crypto prices.  You kinda gotta give it some respect.

384 Billion coins only to be mined, one for each millimeter from here to the moon.

Mooncoin Blog here -> http://mooncoin.wordpress.com/

*Mooncoin. You know where its headed.*

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Managed to find a Quarkcoin Blog post here

http://bitbash.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/quarkcoin.html

Note the date on it.

By now the Quarkcoin developers are laughing it up on some remote Pacific Island sipping marguritas and thinking 'wondering if anyone is still buying that crap'  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

A couple of days after my post about coins to watch and coins to mine.


Very interesting that the multipool.us recommended coins to mine are all doing so well.


A review of them:


http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html


Earthcoin (EAC) - Market Cap up +95.62%
Mooncoin (MOON) - not recommended by Multipool.us then - Market Cap up +254.07%
Worldcoin (WDC) - Market Cap down - -8.16%
Zetacoin (ZET) - Market Cap up +8.07%
Dogecoin (DOGE) - Market Cap up +75.83%
Lottocoin (LOT) - Market Cap up +151.21%
Grandcoin (GDC) - Market Cap up +15.5%


I think we have our site for research into finding the next Altcoins to be speculated on.


www.multipool.us

or as Letterman would say "IT FLOATS!"


and lastly this hour 42coin:


50th place on the list, Market Cap a paultry $231,273, wasn't this supposed to be at $42,000,000 by 8 February? and a last sale price on Cryptsy of $271 with a low today of $216.

Stinky Pump' n Dump is all it is!


QED, QED, QED . . . Quod Erat Demonstrandum (which was to be demonstrated)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Why Cryptsy, when you had a perfectly functioning perfectly useable account totals balance number at your website, would you go and choose to disable it while you were working on a new and improved Uber Account Balance feature?


I mean haven't these guys figured out yet that a carbon copy website for feature fiddling and improvement would be less likely in upsetting (read pissing off) their existing client base?  Grrrrrrrr!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLC8zNQ3TYQ

LOL, these guys were pooh poohing the almighty DOGE all through December and laughing at it.

Who's laughing now eh?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLC8zNQ3TYQ
> 
> LOL, these guys were pooh poohing the almighty DOGE all through December and laughing at it.
> 
> Who's laughing now eh?


These guys are very knowledgeable about the Cryptos and Altcoin trading, but never once have I heard them speak of "the Network Effect".  Selling now is a pretty dumb thing to do!!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Just have a look at the charts at the bottom of the list:


http://cryptmarketcap.com/


scroll to bottom.


This is the time of the monthly lunar cycle when these things should be going up for these Alts too.


I mean how can the price be going up on some, mined coinbase stay the same or increase in a minor way and yet the Market Cap is going down???


This image:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/qyv4tg58xi...ad%20Coins.jpg


For all these coins Mozart's Requiem in D Minor applies:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ra0wDScRwg


Lets just put them out of their misery now.  Just visual coin pollution on the Coin Charts list and a waste of time!


Yep includes Unobtanium, don't get sucked in!


Requiem . . . unfinished at the time of Mozarts Death, just like these coins are all but finished and people refuse to accept their death is a fait accomplis!  Irreversible now.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Trading Potential (Top 10)


Dogecoin (DOGE)
Mooncoin (MOON)
Litecoin (LTC)
Peercoin (PPC)
Namecoin (NMC)
Primecoin (XPM)
Worldcoin (WDC) - this thing better show some vital signs soon else it needs to get ditched
Novacoin (NVC)
Megacoin (MEC)
Digitalcoin (DGC)


Mining Potential (Top 5)


Dogecoin (DOGE) - Probably better than MOON right now particularly with a "mine and hold strategy"
Mooncoin (MOON)
Grandcoin (GDC)
Mincoin (MMC)
Digitalcoin (DGC)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://cryptocointalk.com/index.php

Yep, visit here often

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7gxhgoiuf7...eak-Volume.jpg

Not brimming with confidence all of a sudden.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Earthcoin (EAC) - Market Cap up +95.62%
> Mooncoin (MOON) - not recommended by Multipool.us then - Market Cap up +254.07%
> Worldcoin (WDC) - Market Cap down - -8.16%
> Zetacoin (ZET) - Market Cap up +8.07%
> Dogecoin (DOGE) - Market Cap up +75.83%
> Lottocoin (LOT) - Market Cap up +151.21%
> Grandcoin (GDC) - Market Cap up +15.5%


Remember, just as a Trader never goes chasing "Green Candles", we should NEVER wake up to this and go chasing yesterdays news.

Just take this on board as part of research for now, and keep researching your best opportunities.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Not quite right on Multipool, I have been mining this site for a few months and it is very profitable precisely because of what you stated regarding the formula it uses to determine profitability. 
> 
> However, it is not difficult at all to get the coin off of Multipool . . .


Was just indicating that when I was participating with everyone else in the pool I ended up with bits and pieces of CAP, CGB, MEC, MNC and other Altcoins that multipool decided to switch to for brief moments, and now the only way to cash in on them is to switch my rigs back to them long enough to get the cashout total to greater than 1.0 of each coin.

Not really a big problem, happy to abandon them in favour of focusing of coins that are profitable.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Humour me and try this experiment.


Go to Google and switch to Images for your search.


Type in an Altcoin, any altcoin and do a search.


Just for grins I have chosen Copperlark for this experiment the most obscure coin I could think of, but I have done it for quite a few coins in the last 24 hours - same results.


Now scroll down through the image results you find in your search.


Tell me you don't see DOGE the dog in your search and I will send you a Million Moonies  :-)


Now pretend you are a new person (one of the 6.999999 Billion on the planet who hasn't figured this out yet) who has heard a bit about this cryptocurrency thing, but all of a sudden wants to learn more . . .


Are you getting it yet?


N E T W O R K  E F F E C T  is  E V E R Y T H I N G !!!!


Have you got your DOGE's locked down yet?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I don't know, but I think my luck might run out if I push this one any further.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/18vgvufosj...tsa%20Luck.jpg


Multipool suggested LOT (Lottocoin) was a good deal to mine a week or so ago, so I decided to switch the rigs over for about 6-8 hours and grab 227,000 coins.  For the longest while it was only worth 0.01 BTC.


A sale now means 0.129 BTC.  Think I will grab it and not push my luck on LOT any further.


Small gains over and over works best I think, besides which I now know what the long and winding downtrend hopium road looks like.


Onto the searching out and finding the next one to mine.

Who says Scrypt Mining is dead?  Its very profitable as far as I can see.

Actually considering picking up more parts to build another rig or two particularly since each one can be paid off in about a months time.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Actually considering picking up more parts to build another rig or two particularly since each one can be paid off in about a months time.


Happy to explain the parts and software needed if of interest.  Basically once all the parts are available, 5 hours later it's mining and making coin.  Very simple to do.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I remember getting all excited at seeing Bill Still's video on 28 November as well.  A good chance to watch it again but this time pay particular attention to his body language.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIkpZ73GMG4
> 
> 
> By his own admission in the video, he is not an expert on the Cryptos and is newly involved in them at that point in time.
> 
> 
> ...


He is very stubborn.  I advised him to get out of quark, but he is still convinced it's going to go up to a dollar.  He hasn't sank much into it yet, so at least there's that.  I will see if I can prevent him from getting any more.  Will keep advising to sell because it doesn't look like it has long left.  I will never understand why he trusts internet economists so readily.  It doesn't matter how long you've been listening to them, you still don't KNOW them.  He may have to learn the hard way.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Damn it all if that Mooncoin isn't at it again.
> 
> http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html
> 
> 31st place and an $856K market cap now.  Should be moving up to compete with the likes of LOT, EAC and TRC soon.
> 
> Ideally will rest in the high teens on the list.
> 
> Just wish these guys would start listing it, so we could see the mined vs remainder to be mined numbers:
> ...


TRC?  I thought TRC dropped off the list, along with NVC and FTC.  There's a long list of question marks on coinmarketcap.com.  Does that mean they've dropped to zero?  That's what it seems like because there's no info for them anymore.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> He is very stubborn.  I advised him to get out of quark, but he is still convinced it's going to go up to a dollar.  He hasn't sank much into it yet, so at least there's that.  I will see if I can prevent him from getting any more.  Will keep advising to sell because it doesn't look like it has long left.  I will never understand why he trusts internet economists so readily.  It doesn't matter how long you've been listening to them, you still don't KNOW them.  He may have to learn the hard way.


Trusting Internet Economists so Readily?

Just like trusting all the other Schills on FOX, MSNBS, CNN and C-Bull$#@!-S in thinking QE to infinity is a good thing - sadly the old school trusting ppl still don't get it yet that the NWO Con-Artists are out to do anything and everything to screw them out of all their money, and so this is the same trust translating into the Cryptos and the Crypto developers which is very much misplaced.  Very unfortunate.

The old school ppl are too trusting (my motto is "trust no-one, use discernment always" now), but oh well if they don't yet see this, and see how we've lived through 13 years of war which was promulgated on a BULL$#@! LIE about some boogeyman in a cave that never was, planes which supposedly slammed into buildings requiring action, that never were, and so trusting and blinded with "normalcy bias" to ever question the fact that their own Government and CIA had a hand in creating and promulgating this whole bull$#@! lie, oh well there is probably is not a lot one can do to help them at this point.  Perhaps just easier to sit back and let the learning sink in the hard way.

The stubborness is just a symptom of a continued inability to accept the reality in which we now live.  Its OK, this too shall pass . . .

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> TRC?  I thought TRC dropped off the list, along with NVC and FTC.  There's a long list of question marks on coinmarketcap.com.  Does that mean they've dropped to zero?  That's what it seems like because there's no info for them anymore.


I think that the ? marks mean that the website developer is just not receiving up to date info from the coin developers.  Doesn't necessarily mean the coins are bad, its just that the info flow is not happening smoothly.

To my way of thinking this is a concern, because any coin where a developer is actively promoting it, would find such info passed onto coinmarketcap.com and cryptomarketcap.com daily with ease.  So the coins with a ? mark are the ones to definitely watch and be concerned about.

Especially FTC right now, because the price is really fading fast.

----------


## XTreat

> Can someone who knows multipool.us explain this to me?
> 
> 
> [url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/k75rl1n1uit4b2v/NotMiningMooncoin.jpg[/url


Multipool switches what coin it is mining, if you check the tab called "Multiport" it will show you that it spent 5.6% of it's time mining MOON in the last 24 hours. So that would explain why you have coin coming in. Also after you finish mining for awhile you still have unconfirmed coin in your multipool account. 

Now, how it wound up in your personal wallet? I have no idea.

----------


## XTreat

> Was just indicating that when I was participating with everyone else in the pool I ended up with bits and pieces of CAP, CGB, MEC, MNC and other Altcoins that multipool decided to switch to for brief moments, and now the only way to cash in on them is to switch my rigs back to them long enough to get the cashout total to greater than 1.0 of each coin.
> 
> Not really a big problem, happy to abandon them in favour of focusing of coins that are profitable.



Well, I just wait until multipool switches back to them a few more times and then when they hit my preset trade amount then off they go to Crypsy.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Multipool switches what coin it is mining, if you check the tab called "Multiport" it will show you that it spent 5.6% of it's time mining MOON in the last 24 hours. So that would explain why you have coin coming in. Also after you finish mining for awhile you still have unconfirmed coin in your multipool account. 
> 
> Now, how it wound up in your personal wallet? I have no idea.


Thanks, checked Multiport and it shows that I spent 5.6% of my time last 24 hours mining Mooncoin.  Not sure how that happened as I don't recall doing it, but perhaps I fired up the Moon cgminer script on one of the machines at some stage in all the excitement and started mining.

For all mined coins I have them automatically sent to the exchange for conversion, rather than receiving them here first in a wallet, so its still a wonder how Mooncoins made their way here to my wallet, but oh well its seemed to have stopped now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Remember, just as a Trader never goes chasing "Green Candles", we should NEVER wake up to this and go chasing yesterdays news.
> 
> Just take this on board as part of research for now, and keep researching your best opportunities.


That's why PPC & NMC might be good moves again...

----------


## muh_roads

It's interesting to watch people play mind games with each other and see your order in the queue on btc wisdom.  Seen a couple large orders cancel around me as we neared our turn to be taken on the buy side.  Not sure what that means.  Cancelled my open order before it was taken.

On the sell side is a boat load of very tiny fractional amounts.  Not sure what that means either in terms of strategy or if a bot is playing people...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Trusting Internet Economists so Readily?
> 
> Just like trusting all the other Schills on FOX, MSNBS, CNN and C-Bull$#@!-S in thinking QE to infinity is a good thing - sadly the old school trusting ppl still don't get it yet that the NWO Con-Artists are out to do anything and everything to screw them out of all their money, and so this is the same trust translating into the Cryptos and the Crypto developers which is very much misplaced.  Very unfortunate.
> 
> The old school ppl are too trusting (my motto is "trust no-one, use discernment always" now), but oh well if they don't yet see this, and see how we've lived through 13 years of war which was promulgated on a BULL$#@! LIE about some boogeyman in a cave that never was, planes which supposedly slammed into buildings requiring action, that never were, and so trusting and blinded with "normalcy bias" to ever question the fact that their own Government and CIA had a hand in creating and promulgating this whole bull$#@! lie, oh well there is probably is not a lot one can do to help them at this point.  Perhaps just easier to sit back and let the learning sink in the hard way.
> 
> The stubborness is just a symptom of a continued inability to accept the reality in which we now live.  Its OK, this too shall pass . . .


Oh, he's definitely not a brainwashed statist.  He doesn't trust anything mainstream, but the problem is that he falls for a lot of convincing bullshitters who are just looking for an audience or trying to get attention or scam someone.  Some of the stuff he's gotten into is just crazy but he just doesn't know how to verify things so he lets his own bias decide if he should trust someone and he often ends up trusting the craziest ones.  

He still thinks the Iraqi Dinar is going to go up in value %1000 overnight... one of these days.  I can't convince him otherwise because, like every bull$#@! story, it contains some element of truth to make all the bull$#@! more believable.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think that the ? marks mean that the website developer is just not receiving up to date info from the coin developers.  Doesn't necessarily mean the coins are bad, its just that the info flow is not happening smoothly.
> 
> To my way of thinking this is a concern, because any coin where a developer is actively promoting it, would find such info passed onto coinmarketcap.com and cryptomarketcap.com daily with ease.  So the coins with a ? mark are the ones to definitely watch and be concerned about.
> 
> Especially FTC right now, because the price is really fading fast.


Oh, I see.  They all appeared at the bottom of the list so I thought that just mean they were too insignificant to really count.  Regardless, though, there are a lot more of them now than there used to be, so that may be a sign that we are about to enter a crypto-coin bloodbath.

----------


## muh_roads

mah 00747 namecoins are $#@!tin' zee bed.  should probably get more soon.

btc movement is so sideways and boring...causing me to be a chicken.

----------


## Dianne

You guys just holler when it's time to buy something... I have no clue.... don't even understand much of what you are saying, or the charts..   I'll check in every few hours... just say BUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY or SELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ..

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Worldcoin (WDC) finally starting to show some life:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uugye3zh1j...20Jan%2013.jpg

Might be time to pick up a few.

If you notice from the long term chart it doesn't play like all the others in terms of the Lunar trend.

I'd buy some, but have already mined a bunch.  Just looking now for the best time to sell them.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I suppose it was inevitably bound to happen:

https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/334...ck/#entry29691

Total Coins => 100696969

Pre-mine 5% => 5034848

When I see any pre-mine whatsoever, I immediately ignore the coin.

Think back to LTC, DOGE, MOON etc.  Not a single pre-mined coin at all.

Miners are clued into this now and won't touch a coin with any pre-mine.  No miners and the coins dead in the water.

But its good to keep researching what's coming up around the corner.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/333...nt/#entry29599

Scraping the bottom of the barrel here to come up with new Altcoin ideas.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Might be worth watching,  Zero Pre-Mine

https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/320...fo/#entry28094

but its Sha-256 so no good for GPU miners

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Multipool suggested LOT (Lottocoin) was a good deal to mine a week or so ago, so I decided to switch the rigs over for about 6-8 hours and grab 227,000 coins.  For the longest while it was only worth 0.01 BTC.
> 
> A sale now means 0.129 BTC.  Think I will grab it and not push my luck on LOT any further.


Hung on a tad bit longer and managed a 0.1375 BTC trade.  Should I have hung in a bit longer?  Perhaps, but as I am playing a bunch of coins right now, will be happy with this one and move along to the next opportunity.

Its always good to have some BTC available in case something pops up out of the blue.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> You guys just holler when it's time to buy something... I have no clue.... don't even understand much of what you are saying, or the charts..   I'll check in every few hours... just say BUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY or SELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ..


Hi Diane, are you looking for BUY and SELL signals to get into BTC for the first time, or do you already have some?

You've indicated that you don't understand the charts but without some idea of how charting works it will only be a lucky guess as to whether or not you buy at the right time and sell at the right time.

Understanding how to read charts and technical analysis is not all that hard, but in the beginning some focused study is required.

Suggest you visit:

www.4shared.com (don't need to join up as a member, can just request initial downloads for free) and search for and download this presentation:

7 Chart Patterns That Consistently Make Money.pdf

It is 71 pages, and it reviews various chart patterns and signals to watch for, and will enable you to begin getting into the lingo.

As a beginning trader, you kinda want to have a win straight away, else you will get discouraged and perhaps abandon the idea.  So I will walk through an example with PPC and NMC coming up in the next 10 days and show what to look for.

Have you thought of purchasing perhaps just 0.5 BTC and setting up an account on Cryptsy and try trading it to see if you can make it into 0.625 BTC?  This is not a big gain, but its not a big risk either.  In doing so, you will better understand the mechanics of trading and all the tools required.

Cryptsy as an exchange has some good and bad about it.  All up its an good site and pretty easy to find your way around.  The bad is it really bogs down when trading volume spikes, but for the example I will walk you through this won't matter because you will be making buy/sell decisions way before such volume spikes happen.

In terms of purchasing BTC, I just use www.localbitcoins.com, go to the chosen Bitcoin Sellers bank and deposit the funds into their account.  30 mins later I have my Bitcoins.  Yes, purchasing there can cost a premium, but if you are constantly watching, you will find some vendors come on and sell 
closer to spot pricing.  Just try to pick a vendor with a number of positive feedbacks.  Most of these vendors are probably traders who have accumulated some wins and who are deciding to sell some to get some cash out, so they are not going to mess around and not send the Bitcoins.  Besides which, to sell on localbitcoins.com, you have to lock the Bitcoins down in an Escrow account before you can create a listing.

My issue is I know our Aussie is falling like a rock right now, headed to 80 cents very soon.  So I was happy to pick up some BTC back at 95 cents so I could begin trading with them, even if it involved a localbitcoins trade premium.

So once you have your 0.5 BTC at your Localbitcoins.com wallet, you can send it straight to your wallet at Cryptsy and begin trading with it.  When you go to move your purchased BTC from localbitcoins, this is when that site deducts a small percentage as your fee for using it.  Don't be discouraged, its just a small bit.  We'll make up for that in trading.

In the meantime, have you downloaded the Bitcoin-qt wallet?  If not you may wish to begin doing that now, as it takes some time to synchronize it to the blockchain.  As the blockchain is getting so large, you will want to find the Bitcoin bootstrap file (9 GBytes) and download it to your local hard drive and then position it so that your Bitcoin wallet sync's from that at first.  Then the remainder of the blockchain that is missing, your wallet will find from searching the web.  Still, all up this can take a couple of days so its best to get it started now.  The bootstrap file is found as a Torrent download, so you will need a free tool like microtorrent to decompress it.

Okay so you have your 0.5 BTC at Cryptsy (or whichever exchange you select) and you're ready to begin.  Lets look at charts for PPC coming up.

The first thing you want to do is look at the full history of PPC and see if you can detect a trading channel that it is currently in.  For most of these coins, the trading history is just not long enough so there is a bit of guess work involved.

To generate a trading channel, Bitcoinwisdom.com is a pretty good site, as it seems to have the most trading history for the Altcoins.  You will want to get used to using Bitcoinwisdom.  So if we select PPCBTC and turn on the volume indicator and the MACD indicator we are ready to begin.

This image generated from the 12 hour data is our starting point:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j0euhs7fje...20Jan%2014.jpg

By selecting the two spike high full candles from around 4 December and 3 January we draw the first line.  This is the top of the channel.  Notice how it leads back to roughly the earliest PPC traded value around October 11th.  Notice also how I am ignoring all the intra-12 hour spike high fluff around early December.  This was an abnormality for PPC.  Next we are looking for a parallel line representing the bottom of our channel.  For this I have chosen the low point around November 22nd and the spike low on December 18th.  The first thing we notice after drawing this line is that todays trading value is outside of our trend channel.  This is a good thing perhaps.

Its OK for PPC to move outside the the trend channel, it just means that after a while there should be a sharp reversal back inside the channel.  In this case, if the trend channel is correct, its a screaming BUYING OPPORTUNITY.  But not so quick, we are just using this as a learning exercise and the point is we don't want to lose any of your new 0.5 BTC, we only want to gain.  Because a win on this trade means you gain confidence, then you watch for your next opportunity and pick a winning trade, gaining confidence and on and on it goes.

So before we leave this image generated at bitcoinwisdom.  Lets look at an indicator which will tell us when we should buy, the MACD.

The MACD is the Moving Average Convergence Divergence.  Basically its a measure of where our two moving averages are at and how far apart they are at any given stage.  We have two moving averages, one near term and one longer term.  Some people just trade on the moving average crosses which works but we're looking for an indicator here as to when PPC will stop falling and reverse back into the trend channel.

Again notice this is a 12 hour chart.  Notice also that the MACD hills (green bars) and valleys (red bars) have symmetry with the price movements.  What we are looking for is the first occurrence of a red MACD bar which is hollow and then a 2nd one which is hollow but slightly shorter.  This is a good indication that PPC has found its bottom and is ready to move up and back into the trend channel.

Next we move onto the 4 hour chart found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjuqrlwkdv...20Jan%2014.jpg

This is in Tradingview.com and its a most excellent free resource to track price movements.  Now TradingView does not have as extensive longterm data for PPC, so I have begun by estimating the bottom line of our trend channel as best I could.

Next I have drawn in two lines, a green one for support at PPC's bump high on 31 Decmeber and a red line for resistance at PPC's full candle spike low on 7 January.  This green and red line represent PPC's current trading channel and until we know otherwise, PPC should trade within this channel.  

Notice also that we are currently trading well below PPC's Ichimoku cloud with what seems to be at this moment zero hope of testing it anytime soon.

So next we are looking at the symmetry of the lunar phases for trading.  Roughly 3 days after the next new moon should all go to plan PPC will reach a spike top and we wish to profit from this move.  From the chart right now PPC is looking rather sickly and why would anyone wish to buy it?

Well the smart investors right now perhaps have some buy orders in at 0.00604 just hoping it will spike lower to test support.  Thats where mine are at.

Before we leave this chart, notice that the MACD here really tells us nothing.  However, when you go into TradingView be sure to also turn on the Aroon indicator.  Notice how the orange part of this indicator (bottom of image) shows a move back down to the bottom?  Right now this is just what we are looking for particularly since I figure PPC will do very little in the next day or so but move sideways or if we are lucky drop further.  Please do a spike low to 604 PPC!

OK that all out of the way time for the next image on PPC:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/21qot7qhcl...20Jan%2014.jpg

In this image I have drawn some arrows.  Also we see our trend channel bottom line extended to the future.

The light green arrow represents what we see happening with PPC.  The tip of that arrow represents about 2 days after the next New Moon or lets call it 1 February.  So our trading time is now (22 Jan) until then (1 Feb) or a total of 11 days.

Again the lunar chart found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzxgtbvwje...ool-Change.jpg

Nice DOGE don't bite, Woof, Woof  :-)

So all through this time we are watching BTC and its kinda doing its anticipated sideways movement, perhaps slightly down.

Well as a trader anticipating all this to happen, I'm wanting to grab my PPC at the lowest price I can (hopefully 0.00604).  Remember, when everyone hates PPC this is when you want it.  When everyone loves PPC, this is when you want to sell it.

You on the otherhand who are new to all this, after reading the recommended presentation from 4shared.com, are probably wise to do the following.  Do not buy at 0.00604, but just wait.

The 3 other arrows shown in this image represent your buy and sell plan.

The first red arrow is the one you will be watching for confirmation that this breakout higher is really happening.  You will want to see PPC move not only over its resistance line but also over its current Ichimoku cloud and in effect you will be surrendering the first 5-10%, perhaps even 15% of
the move to the market.  What this means is you will not be duped by a fake out move.  Remember you are just starting with 0.5 BTC and you don't want to lose a single Satoshi of it.

So as the values on the right hand side indicate you will pick a 0.00721 buy price and at Cryptsy you will wait till that happens and buy then.

Then towards the end of the move you will calculate what you anticipate to be the 100% point, and sell out at 95% of that, again surrendering 5% to the market.  By doing so, you will be guaranteeing that there will be buyers just clamouring for your PPC because by that point things will be manic.  So when you buy your PPC for 0.00721, that same instant you will create a sell order for your PPC's at 0.00938 and then walk away from it all and wait out the 10-11 days.  This will mean that when Cryptsy gets really busy you won't be stuck doing page refreshes and finding timeouts on Cryptsy, your sell order will already be locked down.  This for you will represent a 938/721 = 30% gain and on a trade of lets say 0.2 BTC you will walk away with 0.26 BTC.

In the meantime, knowing that NMC and XPM are also moving in unison, you may also have 0.2 BTC on NMC and 0.1 BTC on XPM during this time, doing similar buys.

So lets say all up on 0.5 BTC you average a 25% gain.  This then will take your initial 0.5 BTC and make it 0.625 BTC.  This will be nothing to write home to Mom about, but what it will do is allow you to gain some confidence in trading with 3 wins bang, bang, bang, and confidence is what you are seeking in the early stages of trading, not necessarily BTC or dollars.

I hope that this helps you and that you will take the steps to download all the tools and become acquainted with charting and technical analysis.  If so, come April or May it could well be your buy/sell recommendations we are all watching for on here because you will have figured out how this whole thing works and through research on a certain coin none of us are watching, you will be able to provide us a valuable tip.

But without taking time to learn, and just waiting to hear "BUY" and "SELL", you might find your portfolio growth to be a bit lacking by May.  Not to worry, heaps of time to learn and research.  We are all still early on with this thing.

Best of luck in whichever way you choose to proceed from here.  In the end it will all work out, because it always does. :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> That's why PPC & NMC might be good moves again...


Bingo  ;-)

----------


## Dianne

> Hi Diane, are you looking for BUY and SELL signals to get into BTC for the first time, or do you already have some?
> 
> You've indicated that you don't understand the charts but without some idea of how charting works it will only be a lucky guess as to whether or not you buy at the right time and sell at the right time.
> 
> Understanding how to read charts and technical analysis is not all that hard, but in the beginning some focused study is required.
> 
> Suggest you visit:
> 
> www.4shared.com (don't need to join up as a member, can just request initial downloads for free) and search for and download this presentation:
> ...


Great information !!!!!   Thanks so much.

I have a real small portfolio some dogecoin, a few litecoin.    Right now PPC is at 0063 so I'm really tempted to buy some with fiat I have been sitting on in the exchange.    LTC is taking some big hits this morning, due to some type of LTC hacking rumor.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

NMC trend channel touch achieved . . .


So, OK what will it be?


Do I set the sell order @ 0.0113 where the 12 Hour spike top should be on 1-2 Feb 14 or do I go for broke and set it at 0.0138?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/xdd1zughwd...014-Debate.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> NMC trend channel touch achieved . . .
> 
> So, OK what will it be?
> 
> Do I set the sell order @ 0.0113 where the 12 Hour spike top should be on 1-2 Feb 14 or do I go for broke and set it at 0.0138?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xdd1zughwd...014-Debate.jpg


Nah, lets not get too greedy, and call it a split @ 0.0128

Locked, Loaded, Done, Dusted . . . NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXT!!!!!

----------


## Dianne

Duhhhhh, I'm at cryptsy and not sure how to do the sell thing.

Do I go to balances, enable auto sell and insert what I want to sell for?

I have one million pennies/CENT ..  can someone walk me through setting up a sell at 0.0000003 ?    I'm picking that one since it's really not worth anything, so if I mess up; all will not be lost.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Duhhhhh, I'm at cryptsy and not sure how to do the sell thing.
> 
> Do I go to balances, enable auto sell and insert what I want to sell for?
> 
> I have one million pennies/CENT ..  can someone walk me through setting up a sell at 0.0000003 ?    I'm picking that one since it's really not worth anything, so if I mess up; all will not be lost.


Very easy to sell coins, just take a step back.

Under balances you see the coin you want to sell.

To the right pick the market you wish to sell into (either BTC or LTC).  Means your sale will be reconciled in either BTC or LTC when complete.

Next you are taken to that coins page (in this case CENT), but in terms of either BTC or LTC, depending on what you selected.

OK first step.  Notice the chart graph and where its been and where you might think its headed.

Second step.  Check out the latest demand by seeing what people are bidding and asking.

Is this a price you are happy with (Bid Price)

If so, simple matter of scrolling down the Bid stack till you find enough buyers until you find enough for an instant sale and then clicking on that bottom buyer.

Automatically your Sell order values will be populated with all your coins at that particular sell price.

When the sell executes it will sell to the highest bidder first at his price, then the 2nd at his price all the way down to your lowest acceptable sell price.

But wait . . .

Looking at the chart and knowing the price action for CENTS of late, could it be that you might get a better price if you might list it for somewhere you think it might be headed?

What is that value?

In that case, click on your total shares, key in that value and just monitor it during the day to see if it moves up and sells for that.

If it doesn't, you can cancel at any time, no cost to you, and then replace your order.

HTH

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Very easy to sell coins, just take a step back.
> 
> Under balances you see the coin you want to sell.
> 
> To the right pick the market you wish to sell into (either BTC or LTC).  Means your sale will be reconciled in either BTC or LTC when complete.
> 
> Next you are taken to that coins page (in this case CENT), but in terms of either BTC or LTC, depending on what you selected.
> 
> OK first step.  Notice the chart graph and where its been and where you might think its headed.
> ...


But if you are doing what I think you are doing . . . moving out of CENTS into BTC and then ready to pounce on PPC, then this makes good sense.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Meanwhile over at the Multipool Servers . . . all of a sudden we have a mining swap for Mincoin (MNC).  Yeah so what, in the last 24 hrs its only been up in Market Cap by 1.77%

Hint:  Watch, observe the chart and see what happens.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Meanwhile over at the Multipool Servers . . . all of a sudden we have a mining swap for Mincoin (MNC).  Yeah so what, in the last 24 hrs its only been up in Market Cap by 1.77%
> 
> Hint:  Watch, observe the chart and see what happens.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9er5hlvdo...20Jan%2014.jpg

What the heck, I'm game.  Will take the LOT win and pump it into MNC and see where it heads.  Afterall it was only 6-8 hours of mining.  Perhaps this will give it a boost to 0.25 BTC.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBMWtDLA8I

Watching, Lurking, Getting Ready to Pounce . . . but you know me hey ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kb7avv1r0i...issed%20It.jpg

Meow, missed this one . . . Oh well will keep an eye out from here

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvpbcb355i...20Jan%2014.jpg

BTC is doing the boring thing.

As I keep saying, this the time when you play the Alts and skim profits.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Well Lookee here, a big fat green one . . . am I surprised?  Nope.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1rri4c43c...reen%20One.jpg

----------


## btcltc

Looks like nmc is heading back to 4 slowly. The question is, when the bottom is hit and it starts climbing, how long time until we see 7-8 dollars again?

----------


## Dianne

> But if you are doing what I think you are doing . . . moving out of CENTS into BTC and then ready to pounce on PPC, then this makes good sense.


Alright, great.... omw to give it a try.    Yes, I'm looking hard at PPC ...   I almost bought at 0063 this morning but saw on the board where savvy investors are holding out for 0060; so I'm going to hold out as well...   just so I can feel like a savvy investor for about 30 seconds lolol..

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xnzf0dqn9h...20Jan%2014.jpg


Three to watch next few days are WDC, MEC and CAP


Might be worthwhile getting a small mining rig so you can monitor this information.  Even if it doesn't do much in the way of hashing power.  Or at least setting up an account at multipool.us.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Alright, great.... omw to give it a try.    Yes, I'm looking hard at PPC ...   I almost bought at 0063 this morning but saw on the board where savvy investors are holding out for 0060; so I'm going to hold out as well...   just so I can feel like a savvy investor for about 30 seconds lolol..


Perhaps if you are planning to introduce new fiat into PPC you might wish to scale into the trade.


Remember we want this to be a guaranteed win for you.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/21qot7qhcl...20Jan%2014.jpg


Lets assume your total buy in is 100 PPC and lets say we get lucky and are able to find these at 0.00604


But lets also assume that for some reason PPC fails at that support and goes down to the next support level of 0.00586.  Not much lower, but it is a drop in price.  This will make you nervous.


So instead, should the move eventuate as anticipated perhaps you look to buy in gradually like this


20% @0.00604 - Buy 20 PPC


then you wait and watch for a positive reversal and a move up into the top part of the current channel


20% @ 0.00660 - Buy 20 PPC


then you sit tight and await a confirmation of a strong move through resistance @ 0.00692 and it should be convincingly strong and then


40% @ 0.00700 - Buy 40 PPC


Then finally you hold off the last 20% for any expected Fibonacci retracement we might find just after any future move up


This way you are not all in @ 0.00604 and if it flops from there you are disappointed.  Also it will give you an idea on how to sell and buy back in during anticipated 4/8th (50%) to 5/8th (62%) Fibonacci retracements along the way.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Moons doing that Moon thing again.

29th place, up 52% and now over a Million Dollar Market Cap.

Should oscillate up and down over coming days/weeks.  Hopefully will find its way into the high teens position-wise.

From there I figure best to just sit on them and await for BTC to have its next blast upwards.  Long term MNH for me (Mine and Hold).

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Moons doing that Moon thing again.
> 
> 29th place, up 52% and now over a Million Dollar Market Cap.
> 
> Should oscillate up and down over coming days/weeks.  Hopefully will find its way into the high teens position-wise.
> 
> From there I figure best to just sit on them and await for BTC to have its next blast upwards.  Long term MNH for me (Mine and Hold).


Slight MOON mining uptick, but the vast majority of miners are still in love with DOGE.

----------


## KCIndy

> Who says Scrypt Mining is dead?  Its very profitable as far as I can see.
> 
> Actually considering picking up more parts to build another rig or two particularly since each one can be paid off in about a months time.



Oz, if you don't mind my asking, what sort of rig(s) are you running right now?  I'm just curious.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgf36vm3pghvsqh/MoonDoge.jpg

Profitability Rocket.  Servers should be switching over any moment.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Oz, if you don't mind my asking, what sort of rig(s) are you running right now?  I'm just curious.


Give me a few hours, will put together a detailed response in case anyone might be considering building a mining rig or two.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Looks like nmc is heading back to 4 slowly. The question is, when the bottom is hit and it starts climbing, how long time until we see 7-8 dollars again?


As Presence indicated on here a while back, NMC only knows two states:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/mczyh2ratr...20Jan%2014.jpg


Either its long grinding downdrafting consolidation or its rocket launch.


From this chart its difficult to find support any longer except for my long term trend channel line shown in green.

Buys below there could be yummy.


If you notice our position relative to the distance from the last full moon we've got a ways to go before its sitting on the launch pad.


What to watch first is the perking up of PPC and XPM.  This plus a few days will cause NMC to get annoyed and fire up its launch clock:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ftscg9hv3...ch%20Clock.jpg


From there, no chance to play Fib Retracements, its just strap in time and enjoy the ride.  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> As Presence indicated on here a while back, NMC only knows two states:
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mczyh2ratr...20Jan%2014.jpg
> 
> 
> Either its long grinding downdrafting consolidation or its rocket launch.
> 
> 
> ...


Also notice the Aroon indicator, the orange one.  Its down at the bottom and flatlined.  Could go lower yes, but Aroon seems spent.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

So what is this thing called Particle and where did it come from all of a sudden?

http://www.bitparticle.com/about-us/

Quarkcoin association?  Hmmmm . . .

http://particle.kvvs.nl/

Pre-mine?  Hmmmm . . .

What was that saying again?  Oh yeah, "A Pig in a Poke"  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Mooncoin Earthcoin Snuggle


https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9yk9xczmw...%20Snuggle.jpg


Its kinda how it should be, with EAC on top, especially since EAC has been around a long time.


The goal now is to see MOON lose its Scientific Notation which shouldn't be too far off.


*"OMG MOMENT"*, should it ever come, is when MOON has a 1 to the left of the decimal.


Go you DOGE boys Go, Spruik the heck out of it!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Missed the boat on MOON?  No worries, here's the next one to watch.


2 Feb gives plenty of time to source your parts, build your rigs and be in position at the waving of the Green Flag.


https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/340...et/#entry30223


Of most particular interest, if you scroll down this page, you see their Social Media Marketing Hype Plan.  Tick.


Their website:


http://www.reddcoin.com/redd-coin/


Looks like a bit of effort gone into that so far too.


Seems nothing will be available till 2 Feb which I like to see.


On 2 Feb your confirmation will be to download the wallet and confirm that it sync's to the Blockchain in nothing flat.  Then you will know the state of the pre-mine.  They should have some pre-mine yes to confirm their blockchain, but not a whole lot.


Drivers start your engines, you've got 10 days to go.  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Missed the boat on MOON?  No worries, here's the next one to watch.
> 
> 2 Feb gives plenty of time to source your parts, build your rigs and be in position at the waving of the Green Flag.
> 
> https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/340...et/#entry30223
> 
> Of most particular interest, if you scroll down this page, you see their Social Media Marketing Hype Plan.  Tick.
> 
> Their website:
> ...


IPO Investors seem to have committed to 3,153,599,985 RDD out of 105,120,000,000 RDD or 3% which presumably are being mined right now.

Don't recall seeing an IPO offering for MOON but there may have been one.

Then again the developer may payout the IPO RDD's with its own mining after commencement of mining on 2 Feb.

So I guess we will know on February 2nd when we see the state of the Blockchain.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Free MOON from the Mooncoin Faucet?

http://mooncoinfaucet.com/faucet

Sure, I'll have me some of that.

Clever idea, get people downloading and sync'ing wallets . . . very clever!

Visit page often, see if you've won some Free MOON's

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Free MOON from the Mooncoin Faucet?
> 
> http://mooncoinfaucet.com/faucet
> 
> Sure, I'll have me some of that.
> 
> Clever idea, get people downloading and sync'ing wallets . . . very clever!
> 
> Visit page often, see if you've won some Free MOON's


. . . and no sooner said than done, 210 Free MOON's.  Beats mining them.  Can only play once an hour though.  Need one of those countdown clocks with a dinger bell that goes off to remind me to revisit the page..  Hmmmm, where can I get one of those for free as well?  Will have a look around to see what I can find.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> . . . and no sooner said than done, 210 Free MOON's.  Beats mining them.  Can only play once an hour though.  Need one of those countdown clocks with a dinger bell that goes off to remind me to revisit the page..  Hmmmm, where can I get one of those for free as well?  Will have a look around to see what I can find.


This seems to work:

http://timer.onlineclock.net/

Just not sure if it makes a sound after 60 minutes.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Holy Crap!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqazsche52...0No%20More.jpg

I guess its Scientific Notation no more.

I think the World just found the Mooncoin Lucky Dip Generator. :-)

BTW the clock here has an alarm, but its obnoxious.  Works as a one hour reminder though.

http://timer.onlineclock.net/

So far a 2100, a 2, a 30, a 20 and a 10 for me . . . .

. . . . during this same time, managed to mine another 71,000 Mooncoins

Now if we can just slide the decimal spot to the right a few places, it should work out pretty good.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hioCpQq7lOs

----------


## Dianne

> Perhaps if you are planning to introduce new fiat into PPC you might wish to scale into the trade.
> 
> 
> Remember we want this to be a guaranteed win for you.
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/21qot7qhcl...20Jan%2014.jpg
> 
> 
> ...


good advice, as usual !!   I might hire one of those $1.50 for 24 hour miners on eBay for some mooncoin.   Is there a "pool" you guys can recommend?   That coin looks like it might be a good long term investment.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

As you may know difficulty goes up daily when mining coins.  Sometimes it dips back if a given coin has no miners, but generally speaking a popular coin will find difficulty increases every day or so.


Difficulty is different than mining reward.  Mining reward represents the number of coins per block found by a given miner.


From watching BTC, we know that when the mining reward halves, there is price pressure upwards on the existing mined coins.


Therefore, even if one is not mining, one needs to be aware of "potential" price jumps when a given coins block reward is due to be halved.


So these dates may be interesting to watch in the future:


DOGE Coin - Mining Reward Halves in -> 22.6 days == Saturday, 15 February 2014


http://cryptocoinstat.com/reward.php?coin=DOGE


MOON Coin - Mining Reward Halves in -> 52.5 days == Monday, 17 March 2014


http://cryptocoinstat.com/reward.php?coin=MOON


Info for a few other coins mining reward can be found at the top of this page:


http://cryptocoinstat.com/

Date Calculator found here:

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/date...&am=&aw=&ad=52

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> good advice, as usual !!   I might hire one of those $1.50 for 24 hour miners on eBay for some mooncoin.   Is there a "pool" you guys can recommend?   That coin looks like it might be a good long term investment.


Multipool is "THE" place to mine Scrypt Coins.  This is not some small operation.  If you go to their site and join up, you will see firstly that they are very active in providing updates to miners.  I have mined through other sites, and at times you wonder what is going on and how in the heck you will ever be able to contact the server operator.  Most don't want to have to deal with email, and offer no address to message them.  With Multipool its not a problem, because there never is a need to message them.

www.multipool.us

Multipool charges more percentage-wise for mining (e.g. 1.5% of mined coins) as compared to other mining sites I have found (varies from 0% to 1%), but its well worth it.  You never see this amount, all you do is just watch the coins roll in.

Because of all the points I have been trying to raise in the past few days, Multipool is probably the most popular site for miners.  They have servers in both the US and Europe and if you check their notification updates, they post updates sometimes 4-5 times a day to let Miners know what is going on.

An example was during the recent surge in DOGE, miners were finding problems getting coins off the mining servers and over to Cryptsy.  However, this seems to have been a Cryptsy melt-down problem.  In reality, this is never a problem if you just send your mined coins at regular intervals or small amounts straight to Cryptsy and not let them build up at Multipool.

As a final aside, must be cautious about the past guiding the future all of a sudden.  DOGE seems to be the unexpected wildcard.  Did you know there was a 24h period where the DOGE volume actually outdid the BTC volume.  Definitely a negative effect for the usual high performing Altcoins when this happens.  Solution to that will be a whole bunch of new money coming into the Crypto market but will that happen while BTC is doing the sideways dance?

----------


## RoC

Bitcoinwisdom just added Doggycoin (Cryptsy)
I can't say for sure that this is not a sponsored link, but they have been very reluctant to add cryptos so far.
The only cryptos they currently list are BTC/LTC/PPC/NMC and DOGE
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

I think DOGE might be past the "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you." stage.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Will begin this series of Mining Rig building discussion on this thread in parts and add to it as I think of new things to add.  I am sure there are some pretty experienced miners on this discussion forum, and so feel free to chime in and correct me where I am wrong.

Firstly, as a pre-amble I have been working with computers since the late 1970's.  Then the 80's came and if you wanted to add something new to a computer you were always ripping it apart and adding a new graphics card or upgrading ram, or adding a new hard disk or something.  For me this carried on until the late 90's and then by that point it started not making sense to build your own computer, it was just easier to find a vendor who had a machine that you wanted, and then ask them to customise it.

Nowadays computers have gotten so cheap they really are, for the most part, throw away appliances.  You get one, use it for a couple of years and then you buy the next one, prices have fallen so much.  So it had been a while since I built a computer, probably 15 years.

So its around Oct/Nov and I am watching the BTC prices, but not really paying attention to these things called the "Alts", didn't even know they existed to tell you the truth.  Being a Silver Stacker, all I was interested in was how BTC itself was doing, and Clif High's suggestion (Web Bots - www.halfpasthuman.com), that once BTC broke through $900 we would start seeing Silver price suppression end.  Yeah right, like thats going to end sometime soon.  So I sat there and watched, and to be honest was busy working away on a new small business startup idea in Lean and Six Sigma.

Anyway then came the early December $1200 surge and it caught my attention, and thought hmmmm, maybe I should build one computer and start mining these things.  Just one and see how it goes and see if all these wild claims that it would pay for itself in 8 weeks were correct.

But where to begin?

At this point all I knew about was BTC and preliminary research pointed to the fact that difficulty was rising and all these ASIC mining companies were selling these new GigaHash and TeraHash mining cards but that one would need to pre-order and wait till Feb/March 14 to get a hold of one.  There were a few for sale on eBay but they seemed kinda pricey.

So I researched more and discovered this page:

https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison

and all the people who were simply using their GPU's (Graphics Card Processing Units) to mine Litecoin which is a Scrypt coin and not Sha-256 like BTC.

So now were around 10 December, and I am thinking, ok build a computer and mine Litecoin.  So I started searching for which Graphics cards to focus on and noticed that in the pre-Christmas rush and post BTC price spike euphoria, cards were getting really hard to source.  Managed to locate a few in Sydney so that worked out OK and then some in Melbourne.  But it was like "you've got 24 hours to fulfill the order or it gets cancelled because we've got other paying customers lining up".  So it was a manic time driving all over the place to get these darned cards.

As it had been a while since I built a computer I searched out this video series on how to do it.

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIXAtNGGCw

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxaVBsXEiok

Now this guy at NewEgg is amazing in how he explains everything.  So simple.  So while chasing around graphics cards I watched these videos a couple of times and now I am beginning to visualise how the build will happen.  Still I haven't even sourced the other computer bits yet, but am working on it through a supplier in Melbourne.

Then I find this guys eBook on how to build a mining rig and set it up to do Scrypt mining.  I think it was $30.  Useful to some extent but there is newer information elsewhere which is also good.

Its also around about this time also that I discovered Presence and his discussion of the Cryptos on the Ron Paul Forum.  At that point I was looking for someone who was knowledgeable about these Altcoins, not necessarily from the perspective of trading.  This was prior to starting this particular thread.  But to be honest I didn't have a clue how all the exchanges worked and that you could even trade these Cryptos back and forth to make more BTC.

At this stage all I am thinking build a mining rig or 2 or 3 or 4 and mine Litecoin and by the end of 2014 my hope was to have 1500 Litecoins.  That is a number that sticks in my mind.  Perhaps by then I could change them in for BTC and at 30:1 I would have 50 BTC.  Cool.

Of course all the while I am debating with myself, do I just go and buy 50 BTC like everyone is recommending.  But what if the price crashes back down to $200 or whatever?  Thus my chart on BTC and the $100,000 question.  Really it was a question I was asking myself, and not posing to others.

So time is going by and to the Engineering mind, this build the computer thing is looking quite interesting.  As I research and begin acquiring parts, its becoming apparent that putting them altogether is a whole lot easier than it was 15 years ago.

The first machine starts getting built, this is around 15 December.  Just as the fellow on NewEgg shows, you basically build it on the desktop, make sure everything is working, then you move it inside the case.

So at this time I am also thinking, ok what if this is a total flop and I can't make anything out of mining Litecoin.  What then?

It was then that I decided, if its so hard to find these graphics cards what say I focus on building a Gaming machine.  With 4 graphics cards working together through Crossfire, surely someone down the road would be happy to pick it up as a YouBute Gaming box, if I simply chuck it on eBay and get back 90% of my investment.  So I said to myself, OK will give it 2 months of mining and see how it goes and will just eat the power bills and chock it up to another life lesson learned.

So in order to make a gaming box appealing, and also knowing that down here we get 2 periods during the summer where its stinking hot (BTW, another 40C+ spell comming up - always happens during the week of the Australian Open), I wanted to make sure I sourced a case which allowed the best possible air flow around these graphics cards.  As a result I chose an over the top Corsair 900D.

http://www.corsair.com/900D

These 900D's are top of the line cases (definitely way overkill on a mining rig), but what they allow for is heaps of room to get at components, and with the sides off in the Australian summer, it ensures maximum air circulation potential.  While trying to decide on a case, I am seeing guys who are building mining rigs out of Milk Crates to allow GPU's to be sat a distance from each other and using ribbon cable risers and the whole lot.  I even went on eBay and found used plastic Milk Crates were being bid to crazy prices here in Australia, obviously by mining rig people, and thought at that time nope, I figure this will work with the 4 GPU's tucked up close to one another right on the Motherboard, it will be just fine.  If they overheat, they overheat, and I will just have to shut them down for the hottest days of the summer.

So this is the Motherboard I eventually selected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp_l6EJf9wk

Its a Gigabyte GA-Z87X-OC.  The OC stands for Overclocking which I have not attempted to do yet.  Now there are better and more expensive motherboards out there but I figured this one would be good enough.  I think it was $375.  So far they've performed perfectly.

So back to the Graphics Cards, once you do your research you will quickly find that nVidia makes great graphics cards for gaming, but really these are very poor at GPU hashing for the Cryptos.  You have to go with AMD.  Now AMD is just the core GPU manufacturer, but you really need to purchase cards by Sapphire if you want the best cards out there.  And this was where the problem was in December.  Heaps of options to buy other vendors graphics cards, but the Sapphire ones were getting to be rare as hens teeth to track down everywhere in Australia.

Following a few other Youtubers I noticed also that in the US everything was sold out in terms of Sapphires, including on Amazon.  So once I located 12 cards I knew I had enough for 3 machines.  My initial goal was, if everything went to plan, build the 4th machine in February.  Now I just rejected an offer for 4 more cards which I put a deposit on - delivery early January.  Of coarse the recent action in mining of the Altcoins tells me that was a dumb move, but I just figure cards should become available again more readily and I can source new ones and build that 4th machine at my leisure now.

For the graphics card I have chosen the Sapphire R9 290, this one:

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...pid=2044&lid=1

In Aussie Dollar terms it sets you back $500 each.

When you are looking at building multiple machines, it becomes easier to do so when you standardise on the same parts because you are just doing the same thing over and over again.

First machine took 8 hours.  2nd was up and running in 6, 3rd was up and running in 5.

As I have only purchased one DVD-ROM drive for all 3 machines, what I do is get it working in parts on the table.  From there I install Windows 7.0 (64-bit Edition, must be 64-bit Edition) while its still sitting there in pieces on the table, then once that is confirmed as working and booting off the operating system on the SSD card, then I begin putting all the parts into the case and begin further testing from there once its all built.

Of course Linux is a cheaper option (free), and that appealed to me to learn how to do it, but I haven't installed Linux in a while and I just wanted to get these machines up and running.  So I ate the $130 cost for each machine.

Usually its a couple of days of ironing out some bugs and glitches, waiting for Windows 7 to receive its latest updates from the MS Servers etc., but pretty quickly its mining and bringing in some coin.

Are my machines performing to their optimum?  Definitely not, will go on about that in a future msg.  For now I just want to get past the heat of the summer and then will play and fiddle with them afterwards.  Should be getting 9.6 MHash/Sec only achieving 8.2 MHash/Sec.

Now onto the heat problem.  As anticipated these mining rigs are definitely heat generators, and come next July/August they will definitely will be a welcomed sight around here as night time lows dip to near freezing.  But right now, summer night, windows wide open, no AC on and its stinkin' hot.

Fan noise?  What did you say?  :-)  Needn't say anything further.  Its like living permanently in the backwash of a 747 engine.  :-)  But if MOON keeps doing what its doing, I say stuff the hearing loss.  Don't get too excited, the Pump 'n Dump is nearly over.  Just hope it settles back down around position 30 and regains confidence again from there.

Optimal goal?  Lease some office space somewhere with suitable power and an internet connection and just let them run away all year long from there.  As profits permit, just keep adding boxes to the mining shop.  Visit them perhaps once a day at first, and then once a week and once a fortnight thereafter.  Can monitor if a given worker, which means a given rig goes down from anywhere that I have an internet connection and know that a certain machine has crashed or needs attention.

If mining with Multipool and using the pool, well no problems as it figures out the most profitable coin to mine so I don't have to.  Should I choose a dedicated campaign mining a certain coin for say 2 weeks, then I need to drop by to restart all the CGMiner Scripts to that specific coin.  Will go on about setting up CGMiner scripts in a future message.  Lots of things to fiddle with there to optimise them, but basically its one simple script per machine.  You reboot on a crash, fire up MSI Afterburner and then fire up the script and off she goes bringing in coin.

But truly these things just run and run and run for days at a time now without a crash (Think Windoze 7 and not Windoze 8, will go on about that in a future post).  Power Blackouts/Brownouts are a problem yes as are Internet connection disrupts.  But as has been proven (another QED), they don't much mind hot Australian summers even with the 4 GPU's tucked in closely to each other.  As my son said to me early on "Dad, if a device likes working @ 90C, and all of a sudden the ambient temperature goes from 25C to 45C, does it really matter?"  He was right, I was wrong.

Anyway, more later.  For now this is a good intro.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html

Until DOGE done sucking up all the funds from the bored BTC ppl, PPC, NMC and XPM will have to wait I'm afraid . . . and the price drops show this.

An unexpected turn of events for this lead up to the Lunar New Moon but not to worry could all come good still . . .

. . . and what of China's Lunar New Year?

Oh the mystery of it all.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Bitcoinwisdom just added Doggycoin (Cryptsy)
> I can't say for sure that this is not a sponsored link, but they have been very reluctant to add cryptos so far.
> The only cryptos they currently list are BTC/LTC/PPC/NMC and DOGE
> http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc
> 
> I think DOGE might be past the "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you." stage.


Thanks for link.  For those who don't know, can also get XPM @ Bitcoinwisdom via:

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/xpmbtc

Feathercoin seems to get half way there:

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ftcbtc

----------


## colin012

Just so you know, there is a hard fork coming up for RonPaulCoin in which the difficulty calculations are being adjusted.

----------


## Dianne

> Multipool is "THE" place to mine Scrypt Coins.  This is not some small operation.  If you go to their site and join up, you will see firstly that they are very active in providing updates to miners.  I have mined through other sites, and at times you wonder what is going on and how in the heck you will ever be able to contact the server operator.  Most don't want to have to deal with email, and offer no address to message them.  With Multipool its not a problem, because there never is a need to message them.
> 
> www.multipool.us
> 
> Multipool charges more percentage-wise for mining (e.g. 1.5% of mined coins) as compared to other mining sites I have found (varies from 0% to 1%), but its well worth it.  You never see this amount, all you do is just watch the coins roll in.
> 
> Because of all the points I have been trying to raise in the past few days, Multipool is probably the most popular site for miners.  They have servers in both the US and Europe and if you check their notification updates, they post updates sometimes 4-5 times a day to let Miners know what is going on.
> 
> An example was during the recent surge in DOGE, miners were finding problems getting coins off the mining servers and over to Cryptsy.  However, this seems to have been a Cryptsy melt-down problem.  In reality, this is never a problem if you just send your mined coins at regular intervals or small amounts straight to Cryptsy and not let them build up at Multipool.
> ...


Great, thank you !!

PPC is .00615 on BTC-e at the moment.   Almost at the 60 target.

----------


## Dianne

Woohoooo, Cryptsy just put mooncoin and ronpaulcoin up.     Right now they are showing 0.00000000 but I supposed they are working on  it as we speak.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Woohoooo, Cryptsy just put mooncoin and ronpaulcoin up.     Right now they are showing 0.00000000 but I supposed they are working on  it as we speak.


Order books filling up now.  This day one introductory effect is what I was waiting for.  459% and 13th place.  Definitely defying all known gravitational laws, but then again its the MOON, gravity doesn't apply.  :-)

Mooncoin, You Know Where It's Headed!

----------


## Dianne

> Order books filling up now.  This day one introductory effect is what I was waiting for.  459% and 13th place.  Definitely defying all known gravitational laws, but then again its the MOON, gravity doesn't apply.  :-)
> 
> Mooncoin, You Know Where It's Headed!


I bought, text me when to sell lolol

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Meanwhile over at NMC:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/xmh2dw0r90...20Jan%2014.jpg


Notice the symmetry between the position now and our last full moon and the position at the same time after the previous full moon.


No support line anywhere left to draw.  The things oversold into the ground.


When all this fun and excitement over DOGE and MOON are over with, don't you think this oversold NMC will be a good play?  You betcha it will be.


Especialy with BTC doing the corkscrew sideways?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I bought, text me when to sell lolol


Very few indicators on Mooncoin to watch, but over at Cryptsy just keep an eye on the green volume bars.  If staying the same or steadily rising this is good.  Price should continue to go up.

At the same time keep an eye on PPC, NMC and XPM.  In time one of these three will revolt which could be the sign that the markets done playing with DOGE/MOON and moving back to the tried and tested.  By the look of the charts we could have another 24-36 hours till that happens.

At Bitcoinwisdom I am watching for the first hollow red bar on any of these charts (PPC, NMC and XPM) on the 12 hour MACD for a sign of reversal.  Not happening yet.

----------


## Dianne

Any chance Mooncoin could break $1.00 us fiat?     I have been watching ppc, nmc and xpm as well.     I almost bought ppc when it hit .0059 a while ago; but it looks like the trend of all major alts is downward.    And of course the evil weekend dumps, starting tomorrow..   I just can't pull the trigger on ppc yet.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

While BTC didn't adhere exactly to the small penant I drew it certainly did the up down corkscrew action which could be foreseen.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jplyhntaf...20Jan%2014.jpg


So now we are at the decision point, what will it do?  Will it break massively either way, up or down?


If it adheres to the April 2013 breakout consolidation model, then we should expect it to do a very gradual down from here till 1 March. which will be a good thing for playing the Alts.


If however, for some unexpected reason it does a massive breakout, be prepared to scurry back into BTC.  Judging from the volume at the Huobi there is no reason for expecting this to happen any time soon but just keep an eye on it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

While trading be sure to check out this site:

https://coinex.pw/

Its another coin exchange, but when it comes up you will see to the lower right a chat window.

All the chit chat right now is about an IFC Pump and sure enough if you then go to IFC on Cryptsy its shooting up.

With a 102 BTC trading volume in the last 24 hours, all it would take is some guy with heaps of BTC to be going on a pumping mission to be making this happen, particularly since right now MOON is chasing IFC's backside.

Just watch the IFC action and listen to the chatter.  Could be good for a quick in and out 5% :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> While trading be sure to check out this site:
> 
> https://coinex.pw/
> 
> Its another coin exchange, but when it comes up you will see to the lower right a chat window.
> 
> All the chit chat right now is about an IFC Pump and sure enough if you then go to IFC on Cryptsy its shooting up.
> 
> With a 102 BTC trading volume in the last 24 hours, all it would take is some guy with heaps of BTC to be going on a pumping mission to be making this happen, particularly since right now MOON is chasing IFC's backside.
> ...


. . . and the Pump begins, IFC up 17%.  Ride it a bit and get out.  Remember the pumper is not long before he is jumping out as well.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Any chance Mooncoin could break $1.00 us fiat?     I have been watching ppc, nmc and xpm as well.     I almost bought ppc when it hit .0059 a while ago; but it looks like the trend of all major alts is downward.    And of course the evil weekend dumps, starting tomorrow..   I just can't pull the trigger on ppc yet.


Yes that could happen, but to my way of thinking it will only lose three 0's behind the decimal place when BTC adds three 0's to its price or say 2017.  But then again who knows as DOGE now at $0.0017 was just in late December at $0.000017.  The key thing will be to watch the amount of coins being mined (the rate of increase on the chart - it needs to remain steady) and the mining profitability at multipool.us.  So long as mining stays steady MOON will now be on people's radar.  Just now Mooncoin has taken a dip back but its #4 in profitability.  As block rewards halve for Mooncoin in March this will make it much slower to mine, and by that point I will stop.  As I say its a mine and hold for me.


After a 600% increase since introduction to the charts on Monday, and now trading at Cryptsy today, all reason would say at best it will achieve a further short term burst up, but then consolidate back down to hopefully the high teens on the overall list.  From there it may go sideways for a long while like DOGE did.  All up what was that?  A month for DOGE sideways.  So in that month could be a great time to mine more while few people are paying the attention to it that they are now.


Yes all the major Alts are taking a hit right now.  This BTC price move down is definitely having an effect on them.  It will be a very interesting weekend to watch what happens, because by Monday something should happen in terms of positive rebound move for both PPC and NMC.  The PPC low of 0.00568 could well turn out to be seen as a very good price.

----------


## Dianne

> Yes that could happen, but to my way of thinking it will only lose three 0's behind the decimal place when BTC adds three 0's to its price or say 2017.  But then again who knows as DOGE now at $0.0017 was just in late December at $0.000017.  The key thing will be to watch the amount of coins being mined (the rate of increase on the chart - it needs to remain steady) and the mining profitability at multipool.us.  So long as mining stays steady MOON will now be on people's radar.  Just now Mooncoin has taken a dip back but its #4 in profitability.  As block rewards halve for Mooncoin in March this will make it much slower to mine, and by that point I will stop.  As I say its a mine and hold for me.
> 
> 
> After a 600% increase since introduction to the charts on Monday, and now trading at Cryptsy today, all reason would say at best it will achieve a further short term burst up, but then consolidate back down to hopefully the high teens on the overall list.  From there it may go sideways for a long while like DOGE did.  All up what was that?  A month for DOGE sideways.  So in that month could be a great time to mine more while few people are paying the attention to it that they are now.
> 
> 
> Yes all the major Alts are taking a hit right now.  This BTC price move down is definitely having an effect on them.  It will be a very interesting weekend to watch what happens, because by Monday something should happen in terms of positive rebound move for both PPC and NMC.  The PPC low of 0.00568 could well turn out to be seen as a very good price.


Wow, woke up to .0055 PPC .   Now that's a shocker.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Wow, woke up to .0055 PPC .   Now that's a shocker.


Yes, there is *RED* everywhere except for the *DOGE* still.  Wonder how much longer this can continue?

----------


## Dianne

> Yes, there is *RED* everywhere except for the *DOGE* still.  Wonder how much longer this can continue?


Right now, I'm afraid to buy anything other than the really cheap stuff.    People are panic selling in anticipation of January 31st and a Fed meeting in New York this coming Tuesday ... or at least that is what the trollbox is saying.

----------


## btcltc

For how much longer will the prices fall? Will we see prices as low as the december crash when the china news came out?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Right now, I'm afraid to buy anything other than the really cheap stuff.    People are panic selling in anticipation of January 31st and a Fed meeting in New York this coming Tuesday ... or at least that is what the trollbox is saying.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ehy3xgkb6ajtf4/Keep-Calm.jpg

----------


## Dianne

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ehy3xgkb6ajtf4/Keep-Calm.jpg


lol

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Update: DB issues forced a rebuild. Please switch to Another pool for Now. Things Should be Back to normal by Morning. coins Are safe.

www.multipool.us

Indeed coins are safe and mining is proceeding just fine.  Usually they pick a Fri/Sat to do the more detailed maintenance, but sometimes its a blank white page during the week for an hour or so.  Nothing to worry about . . . actually its a good thing that they are pro-active in updating their site.  Way more graphs and stats than any other mining site I have found.

Mining MOON so already not working as part of the pool.  This is a rarity, but I guess the one time when its advantageous to not be going along with the herd.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3dm1s4bhm...Jan-14---3.jpg

Aroon not yet convinced is the best clue.

Just watch Aroon, if it rises too rapidly then you won't get 0.00528, but perhaps something close.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3FmGi29LIc


Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8TyQCM2Q1A


Since when has the whole world decided to respond to every question or provide a rebuttal with the word "SO".  Did I miss the memo or something?


. . . or is this just a Bitcoin thing?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7ld9bw7d6...Jan-14---5.jpg

Good luck, as your BTC's are sent out to make more BTC's via PPC, I hope your PPC's spawn offspring in the next 7 days as well.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Right now, I'm afraid to buy anything other than the really cheap stuff.    People are panic selling in anticipation of January 31st and a Fed meeting in New York this coming Tuesday ... or at least that is what the trollbox is saying.


Two words come to mind . . . "Fear" and "Greed" . . . and this is what trading is really all about.  Oh yes, and "Watching the Herd" and always doing the opposite.


When we are seeing nothing but Red on the charts and people are fearful, saying the sky is falling and they are spreading rumours about China and Fed meetings, and this and that, this is "Golden Hour", the time when we hunt out our best Buying Opportunities, because we have mapped it all out in advance and are watching for just these buy signals.


At the opposite end of the scale, when people are euphorious and screaming "Keep buying, this is going to go on forever, YeeHaw isn't Crypto-Trading Great!", we are closely watching our charts and trendlines and plotting our exit strategy.


Fear?  Greed?  Be watchful for those times when its most visible, because that's when we cash in . . . Ka-Ching!  :-)


Anyway, back to figuring out why 0.00643 has become resistance for PPC where no obvious past trade low should be providing this resistance, and what this might mean going forward.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6aj8ss0xi...Jan-14---6.jpg


One preliminary theory is BTC is stuck on 3.5% growth for the day and the Major Alts are stuck watching and waiting for its next move.


Still not convinced yet that we won't see a breakdown on PPC over the next 24 hours.  As usual, time will tell.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Nice thing about trading fulltime, is you get to multi-task and listen and learn as you go:


Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT3pGvtZmI8


Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnV7P24HrMU


Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbLRKr6XLcw


Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9HqEQEpMN0


Highly Technical, in some ways boring as Mud . . . but essential to know this stuff for trading.


Understanding the difference between Sha-256 and Scrypt coins, very important.


Altcoins role in the future of Bitcoin discussed.


Also understanding why a 51% mining attack on BTC is of no concern at all.  It won't be allowed to happen.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/znm43zabfc...20Jan%2014.jpg


At any point in time, click here:


http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html


Make sure Non-Mineable filter is applied


Next Click on Header Title "Volume (24) Hours"


Here you have the Top Ten on the move.


Now why has #8, which has put on a 600% increase in the past 6 days, not showing a even deeper *Red* number?  Relatively minor price drop is part of it, but the fact that 400 Million coins have been mined in the past 24 hours is the real reason.  Just keep watching it.  If the mining keeps up, then its headed up . . . Full Stop!  Only reason for a *Red* number now is that statistics are still relating the past spike and todays minor drop only from $0.00019 to $0.00018.  Will it drop further?  Could do and in reality it Should do, but so long as its sitting in visible position like it is now, it gains in visibility and people will chase it more and more.


Top 3?  PPC is all but destined for 4th spot.  Timeline?  2 weeks max (recall the last time I made a 2-week prediction on the DOGE, it eventuated in 24 hours).  Implications for 1 Feb?  Just keep watching and alter expectations for the spike high accordingly.  Will still do well this week, but the DOGE will literally need to die on the vine now for 3rd place not to happen.  Reason?  Too much volume and the mined supply just keeps growing and growing.

Top 3 Profitable Scrypt Coins right now (multipool.us is back online)

#1 - DOGE - 73.65
#2 - LOT - 67.51
#3 - MOON - 61.99

Keeping in mind that through most of January, the highest profitability number we saw was 42 and the majority of the time the highest was 39.

Do you want DOGE?  You bet you do!!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

As of today, 25 Jan 14, still not a lot of data on the Doge @ Bitcoinwisdom via Cryptsy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjwara0dtz...20Jan%2014.jpg

However, for what we do have, seems a penant resolution come 6-7 Feb 14, or whatever one might wish to call it.

Remembering also that the DOGE Block Reward Halves on 15 Feb 14, could mean upward pressure then:

http://cryptocoinstat.com/reward.php?coin=DOGE

So a potential win on 1 Feb (PPC, NMC, XPM, etc. etc.) and then back to BTC?  So now what to do with it?

As is always the case, your portfolio is your portfolio, so you get to decide.

Also, of course we will be closely watching BTC and the Chinese New Year / Banking Regulation Implementation.

Just saying keep an eye on the DOGE price, the mining stats, the daily volume.


_Addendum:  Correction, block reward halves on Wednesday, 12 Feb 2014_

----------


## SomewhereInOz

5 times lucky, no more fooling around here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vuueuguxa6...20Jan%2014.jpg

Now all in.

1200 PPC (7.72 BTC).  By the time its done want 40% greater or 1680 PPC to convert back into BTC.  Watching the upper Bollinger Band and Ichimoku cloud as we go.  Sell, Buy, Sell, Buy all the way up.

Of course MUSE playing all the while in the background:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ94bGHQNEs

Saw them at Rod Laver on 7 Dec, fantastic show!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7ld9bw7d6...Jan-14---5.jpg
> 
> Good luck, as your BTC's are sent out to make more BTC's via PPC, I hope your PPC's spawn offspring in the next 7 days as well.


Do you think LTC/BTC is bullish?  I used to play the spread, but thankfully got out before LTC crashed in comparison to BTC, and now it seems like there's a slight upward trend developing if I'm not mistaken.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Do you think LTC/BTC is bullish?  I used to play the spread, but thankfully got out before LTC crashed in comparison to BTC, and now it seems like there's a slight upward trend developing if I'm not mistaken.


Round about now with PPC, NMC and XPM doing 10-17% and given their predictability between resistance lines I stick with playing them.  Three is enough to try to keep a track of.

As one bursts higher disproportionately, I sell a bunch and recharge my BTC and plot the next placement for the one I think will burst next.  It can be a bit of a juggling act right about now, but a few days prior to the New Moon it will all be locked in and things will calm down.

Right now sitting tight on my NMC, but working PPC and XPM.  XPM could be a little over done and PPC might be due for a bit of a breather after a run up tonight.

Having a quick look at the LTCBTC chart, no I don't see it as super bullish at the moment, but it should move up a bit.  Not like these other three.  However, don't count out a big LTC move between now and 1 Feb.

----------


## Dianne

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/znm43zabfc...20Jan%2014.jpg
> 
> 
> At any point in time, click here:
> 
> 
> http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html
> 
> 
> ...


I bought some DOGE yesterday.    It always seems to trade near the top and there has to be a reason why.    Trollbox crying that mooncoin is dead lol...  You know those guys.    I have some Lotto, mooncoin and doge.    I guess I'll sit tight for the moment !!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cjjyxq0njj...14%20-%203.jpg


Counting Eight 15 Minute Candles over the upper PPC Bollinger Band and then a bump into the next resistance and its sell time.


PPC is looking carbon copy to about a month ago, so now its time for a day or so of consolidation before the next move up.

A good days work for PPC though.

Will see where its at tomorrow.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Is the PPC run over for now?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Is the PPC run over for now?


Not over, just taking a bit of a breather.  Its back moving again.

New Moon in 4 days.  It could peak on the day, 2 days after like last time, or who knows the day before.  We only have a very few months of data, so can't be sure.  Just need to keep monitoring it hourly at this point.

Right now I am loaded more heavily in NMC, because when it goes, it tends to go fast with only minor pullbacks.

Got totally out of XPM last night as it usually pulls back the hardest.  Will wait for a bottom and buy back in but only with 10% of the overall play this time around.

More heavily weighted in PPC and NMC like last time.

I personally find it harder to peg LTC, so until I can figure it out better I will stay away.

Taking a gamble that the DOGE will sit quiet till 6 Feb while all this is going on.  May be wrong, and in that case I have my mined DOGE's listed for a high pump and dump price of 700.  Probably won't be happening as frequently now that the market cap is so high and daily traded volume is high, but just in case, might get lucky.

----------


## muh_roads

> Taking a gamble that the DOGE will sit quiet till 6 Feb while all this is going on.  May be wrong, and in that case I have my mined DOGE's listed for a high pump and dump price of 700.  Probably won't be happening as frequently now that the market cap is so high and daily traded volume is high, but just in case, might get lucky.


Pump & dump indeed.  Doge is going to have a bad time.  100 trillion is an insane amount.  1 trillion alone is 1 million one millions.  People can't comprehend a number that big.  The US National Debt is 16 trillion.  500K average (Sometimes 1 million) every minute.  Should call it hyperinflation coin.  People are dumping their money into something akin to Zimbabwe economics without realizing it because they're distracted by the meme humor.  A few 4chan's will do quite well though.

So glad these are all on separate blockchains.

So when does this Zerocoin thing go live and what are the specs?  I want sum.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Two more hollow red MACD bars on the 12 hour as anticipated.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pq3qurxs3e...%20Day%201.jpg

Thought I would have a play at drawing the new trend channel for PPC on a Logarithmic scale and then in Bitcoinwisdom converting that chart back to linear.  Thus the curvy trend channel lines in linear scale that we see here.  Seems our recent price spike low and now consolidation and move higher is a bit greater than it was last time around.

So could we see a pretty good spike high in PPC this time around?

Personally I will be getting itchy to start selling anywhere around 0.0095 and take profit, but could it be we will see 0.015?  I think it would be a brave soul to hang around for that long hoping there will still be buyers.

This recent pullback is aligning itself pretty well to the 1 day left prior to launch time scenario.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/coyvvy78tt...%20Day%202.jpg

You can see the actual resistance we will be working through for the few days prior to the actual launch itself (0.00692 to 0.00785)

The distance between the purple and orange vertical bars in each case (last month and this) represent one full day, so we probably have a bit more sideways to downwards action for PPC, NMC and XPM over this time.  From this chart PPC seems to be adhering to old support lines now becoming resistance.  Sold a bit of PPC last night and still watching for 0.00627.  Might not get it, but will be watching.

Remembering right now we are sitting on the northern side of the Himalayas and looking up at Everest.  We need to remember what is on the other side if we don't get out in time . . . namely we get a month of this  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb_yDBmRgmU

Last night on XPM, seeing all those green candles and then the approaching red resistance line, I decided to sell the lot and get out.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kbna0ysz4n...%20Day%203.jpg

However, this time instead of taking cover in BTC, I decided to use the IFC/XPM cross on Cryptsy to see if I might be able to grow some XPM while it was falling for what I anticipated to be 24-36 hours.  Don't forget that these other XPM crosses exist at Cryptsy.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/boh5os7kol...%20Day%204.jpg

A bit glad I did.  My bail price on XPM was around 388.  Since that time IFC/XPM has moved to 450 from 331 or around 35%.  Not a bad play while XPM is falling.  Hoping IFC/XPM will head over 520 and then slowly will begin exiting out of those and back into XPM by tomorrow night.  Might turn the initial 300 XPM into 420+ or so for the resumption of the move higher against BTC.

Anyway, Australia Day here, so Happy Australia Day 2014.  Summer's nearly over, yay cooler weather for the rigs.  Here's my wallpaper for the day:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ne1sdn20jg...eaded-Mate.jpg

. . . for heavens sake, don't forget to keep mining those Mooncoins.  :-)

----------


## KCIndy

> However, this time instead of taking cover in BTC, I decided to use the IFC/XPM cross on Cryptsy to see if I might be able to grow some XPM while it was falling for what I anticipated to be 24-36 hours.  Don't forget that these other XPM crosses exist at Cryptsy.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/boh5os7kol...%20Day%204.jpg



Is Cryptsy your usual exchange?  I've been trading a bit on CoinedUp but it tends to be a bit slow.  

And Happy Australia Day!!  If you have any excessively warm weather, can you box up a bit of it and ship it to the eastern United States?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Bitcoin testing the large penant resistance right now.  Huobi doing the same.  A good time to keep a close eye on things.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7l0ysnzwg4...20Jan%2014.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Is Cryptsy your usual exchange?  I've been trading a bit on CoinedUp but it tends to be a bit slow.  
> 
> And Happy Australia Day!!  If you have any excessively warm weather, can you box up a bit of it and ship it to the eastern United States?


Thanks, will try to send some your way.  Yes Cryptsy is my usual.  Like CoinedUp its also slow, but you get used to it particularly if playing a planned move.  I think working with anything under 20 BTC and working on multiple trades its ok, but beyond that its probably time to move to a larger exchange.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Huobi BTC right to the line exactly and touching it @ 5150

https://www.dropbox.com/s/389papcij1...20Jan%2014.jpg

----------


## muh_roads

The spread between gox & bitstamp is almost $200 now.  I've heard rumors that gox might be shutting down soon.  Are they trying to push up a fictional price to entice more customers?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Bitcoin testing the large penant resistance right now.  Huobi doing the same.  A good time to keep a close eye on things.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7l0ysnzwg4...20Jan%2014.jpg


BTC seems to have a lot of support.  It never pushes downward for long before it bumps back up in the mid 800s.  I think I'm betting on it staying around there before the next meteoric rise.  I don't think it's going to go below $780 again, but just a guess, really.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The spread between gox & bitstamp is almost $200 now.  I've heard rumors that gox might be shutting down soon.  Are they trying to push up a fictional price to entice more customers?


There's no way this can keep up.  That's insane.

I'm trying to wrap my head around why anyone would pay over 1k for a BTC when they can get one for a little over $800.  It doesn't make any sense.

----------


## KCIndy

> BTC seems to have a lot of support.  It never pushes downward for long before it bumps back up in the mid 800s.  I think I'm betting on it staying around there before the next meteoric rise.  I don't think it's going to go below $780 again, but just a guess, really.


I agree.

With big name companies like Overstock and TigerDirect accepting BTC, I'm guessing we're about to reach a whole new level of public awareness.  And with it will come another "surge" in the BTC price.  Very likely a number of the lesser cryptocurrencies will surge as well.  

A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say!

----------


## colin012

> I agree.
> 
> With big name companies like Overstock and TigerDirect accepting BTC, I'm guessing we're about to reach a whole new level of public awareness.  And with it will come another "surge" in the BTC price.  Very likely a number of the lesser cryptocurrencies will surge as well.  
> 
> A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say!


Totally agree. It is why I am holding on to the BTC I originally bought to trade for RPC. It seems the trend of accepting BTC as a valid form of payment is spreading like wild fire with everything from hospitals to online stores beginning to accept it.

----------


## btcltc

> I don't think it's going to go below $780 again, but just a guess, really.


Really? will we pass chinese new year without a massive drop?

----------


## muh_roads

> BTC seems to have a lot of support.  It never pushes downward for long before it bumps back up in the mid 800s.  I think I'm betting on it staying around there before the next meteoric rise.  I don't think it's going to go below $780 again, but just a guess, really.


I think we'll get close to 600 one more time.  Have your fiat ready.  Financial regulators are announcing something sometime in Feb after their meeting.  Weak hands will be shaken out & quickly replaced.  Once the tax & license rules are clarified, the investment world will stop sitting on the sidelines.

----------


## KCIndy

> I think we'll get close to 600 one more time.  Have your fiat ready.  Financial regulators are announcing something sometime in Feb after their meeting.  Weak hands will be shaken out & quickly replaced.  Once the tax & license rules are clarified, the investment world will stop sitting on the sidelines.


One last buying opportunity!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Just about 10-12 hours left to go until PPC, NMC and XPM resolve their upwards rising penants.  The thing to watch through this time is how they perform against their respective 1 hour Ichimoku clouds

PPC first needs to bump into its Ichimoku cloud, ride it up and then punch through resistance @ 0.00692

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z86l0cvu2m...20Ichimoku.jpg

XPM is already above its Ichimoku cloud and wondering about moving higher through resistance but not sure yet

https://www.dropbox.com/s/30ask7zyma...20Ichimoku.jpg

NMC is the one to watch early on because its soon to hit its 1-hour Ichimoku cloud and ride it up

https://www.dropbox.com/s/51cpx1jqz3...20Ichimoku.jpg

The green line is NMC's long term trend line.  After 10-12 hours a strong move then to punch through resistance @ 0.00752

This possible because BTC Huobi test of long term resistance and a rejection and a move down.  Rises like this are required to form the dragontail continuation on towards big penant resolution on 1-3 March 2014.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygto718x5b...20Jan%2014.jpg

So lets watch what NMC does in the next few hours, because once one of these 3 Alts goes the other two get dragged up with it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnr3yeel6e...eeper-Reds.jpg

----------


## Dianne

> Just about 10-12 hours left to go until PPC, NMC and XPM resolve their upwards rising penants.  The thing to watch through this time is how they perform against their respective 1 hour Ichimoku clouds
> 
> PPC first needs to bump into its Ichimoku cloud, ride it up and then punch through resistance @ 0.00692
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z86l0cvu2m...20Ichimoku.jpg
> 
> XPM is already above its Ichimoku cloud and wondering about moving higher through resistance but not sure yet
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/30ask7zyma...20Ichimoku.jpg
> ...


Will be watching.     So far, to me, it doesn't look like we're setting up for a big 1/31 crash as the trollbox keeps saying.

----------


## presence

I've been busy learning a new coding language; coffescript... here is some of my work:



https://cryptotrader.org/topics/2376...urbo-tune-v1-0 

https://cryptotrader.org/topics/7732...slope-bot-v3-0
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/4944...oss-w-bid-size 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/2375...ns-master-v1-0 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/8353...5-harmonic-hft 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/8200...ce-jounce-v1-0

----------


## btcltc

> Will be watching.     So far, to me, it doesn't look like we're setting up for a big 1/31 crash as the trollbox keeps saying.


Well, one last big crash before the beginning of february wouldnt be that far-fetched. And then slow rise unless other big news come up.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Really? will we pass chinese new year without a massive drop?


I may have been a bit too confident in my prediction in retrospect.  It may still drop below $780 on Chinese New Year, but I doubt it will go as low as 600.  The effect of these events seems to be a bit conflated, in my opinion.  The effect will be there, but I think all the recent positives about BTC will shield it from any massive drop.  Of course, I have a fair bit of bias since I've been holding for a while now and don't plan on putting much more fiat in, if any.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

...and it bounces off that 750 barrier again.

----------


## muh_roads

Bitstamp CEO news I think is pulling it down.  Silly weak hands.  Might be buying some soon here.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Bitstamp CEO news I think is pulling it down.  Silly weak hands.  Might be buying some soon here.


It was the BitInstant CEO, not Bitstamp.

----------


## muh_roads

> It was the BitInstant CEO, not Bitstamp.


bah, that's what I meant...lol  I'm on bitstamp right now waiting to pounce.

bit bit bit bit bit...tired today...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> bah, that's what I meant...lol  I'm on bitstamp right now waiting to pounce.
> 
> bit bit bit bit bit...tired today...


How low do you think it's going as a result of this?  Interesting that it sort of coincides with the Chinese New Year.

----------


## KCIndy

> I've been busy learning a new coding language; coffescript... here is some of my work:



Cool!!  

I've been wondering what happened to you!  Great work, and glad to see you back!

----------


## KCIndy

> bah, that's what I meant...lol  I'm on bitstamp right now waiting to pounce.
> 
> bit bit bit bit bit...tired today...



Coinbase is showing $759 right now.... and to think I just bought yesterday at around $820 or thereabouts.  dammit dammit dammit!!

If it drops below 750 in the next half hour or so, I may have to grab another slice anyway.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Whats with the attack on the DOGE and why didn't it stick?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dggj26medi...OGE-Attack.jpg

Addendum:  Second attack just then down to 0.00000014.  Only way that can happen is if someone with heaps of BTC bought up loads of DOGE on the way up and waited for just this moment to dump them.  Stay tuned, its not over yet.

. . . and if this hypothesis is correct, why now?  What is so significant about now, 2 days out from the Lunar New Moon and 3 days out from Chinese New Year for this to be happening?  What is this telling us?

Notice too, while that was happening to the DOGE, we all of a sudden see PPC, NMC and XPM go green on the day with mini-spikes, and BTC and LTC go green as well.  Like what is with that all of a sudden?

That's why I always keep my mined DOGE always up for sale for some ridiculous price, because never know when some Pumper might come through and snap them up.

----------


## muh_roads

> How low do you think it's going as a result of this?  Interesting that it sort of coincides with the Chinese New Year.


Not because of this news...but I'm anticipating $600 within the next month whenever new US rules are announced.  It will be a flash crash like how $730 was reached today.  (back up to 770)  People panic over tax and licensing news but in all honesty it clarifies things that investors want to hear.  So if it gets into the 600's it won't be there for probably more than 12 hours until it bounces back.




> If it drops below 750 in the next half hour or so, I may have to grab another slice anyway.


That's the best way to play it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

While researching coins to invest in, keep an eye out for posts such as this one made on 16 January:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418209.0

Obviously MEOW had a bit of a premature launch initially and then it flopped.  Then a new team leader came in and worked at turning things around progressing development on many fronts.  So the Crypto-Community saw this and rewarded Kittehcoin.

I was distracted with other things and missed this update before the move started.  Obviously its too late now, but something to watch out for when researching coins for potential future moves.

----------


## muh_roads

Okay so it looks like two things happened today causing the contraction.  Bitinstant CEO we already know about...the second thing that happened is a bit more murky as I can't get a decent translation.  The Russian central bank said something negative today as well.  It wasn't a ban...but I'm not sure what it was exactly...

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Okay so it looks like two things happened today causing the contraction.  Bitinstant CEO we already know about...the second thing that happened is a bit more murky as I can't get a decent translation.  The Russian central bank said something negative today as well.  It wasn't a ban...but I'm not sure what it was exactly...


*Russia Backs Bitcoin Curbs as Central Bank Snubs Sberbank Plan*

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...bank-plan.html

----------


## SomewhereInOz

BTC definitely oversold right now and working its way back up above the support line on BTC-e.  Should get back to $775-$780.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ub71p7zp5q...20Jan%2014.jpg

This is allowing the Alts to respond positively after being pushed down by the move for the last 12 hours or so.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Here's a long-term chart of NMC.  Of all the Alts its been around the longest so it could give us a better clue as to what is coming not only for NMC but the other major Altcoins (PPC, XPM, etc.) in the next few days:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xg8qtbbv2...%20Present.jpg

The NMC data on TradingView goes all the way back to NMC's introduction in November 2011.  After introduction, it reached a high price of 0.03 BTC and I suppose has been in a steady decline since, although having a number of significant price spikes along the way.

Without looking at the whole history of NMC, but rather focusing on the period of just prior to April 2013 through to the present time, it is worthy to note firstly that this is a Daily Chart.

A few points about this chart:

1.  This period of time represents a similar period of BTC price spike to $280 (April 2013) and then consolidation, just as we are going through now following the early December $1240 BTC price spike.

2.  As noted before NMC seems to adhere to the Lunar New Moon price spike highs, but a few of the major spike highs have occured a few days before BTC had its own spike highs.

3.  The green line at the bottom represents NMC's all-time low price of 0.00127 BTC which it has hit twice.

4.  The pink line represents a line connecting the spike high price on 3 January and the daily high price on 29 November for NMC.  Coincidental that these are the same value?  When we take this line back to April, it closely aligns with the daily high prices then as well.

5.  At the bottom of the chart we need to notice the large increase in trading volume in the past 2 months.  A lot more people in and hoping, and how will this affect the number of buyers we will find going forward?

6.  Two purple lines are shown connecting the two NMC intra-day price spikes in April/May 2013 and Dec 13/Jan 14.  Notice how they lead down to a bottoming of NMC's price in the future, particularly the most recent line to where we are right now.

7.  If we do the same thing with the daily high prices (blue lines) we see that from April/May 2013 it took 7 months for NMC's price to again challenge this line in November 2013.  I guess we can conclude that NMC likes to go into a prolonged consolidation period dipping even lower while BTC itself is consolidating.

8.  To the right of the chart, notice how we are presently sitting above the daily Ichimoku cloud and battling to stay above local support at 0.00653.  Penetrating this cloud anytime in the next day or so would not be a good thing for holders of NMC as it could well lead (like the last time) to a prolonged down period of say 6-7 months with perhaps one or two significant spikes up to recover above the then current prices.

9.  The 3 red lines represent current resistance - 0.00763, 0.00822, 0.00884.  There is also localized resistance at 0.00712 and 0.00745 (not shown).  Right now NMC is slowly moving higher following BTC's current recovery, but not at the pace of PPC.

Conclusions:

1.  From this chart, it is probably not realistic to see NMC spike as high as it did on 3 January 14.

2.  If over the coming day or two we stay above the Daily Ichimoku cloud, we could ride to a moderately higher price.  However, from this chart should we pass through the Ichimoku Cloud, we could well be on a track to long term lower NMC prices.  The next 12-18 hours will tell us which it will be.

3.  Exit point for NMC?  Just my opinion, but I doubt we will see 0.00884 this time around.  Given we are seeing a bit of a strengthening in the Alts at this moment, PPC particularly moving nicely again following the BTC drop and now reversal, we could well see an NMC price move back above 0.00700.  From there I will be watching its movement against the Daily Ichimoku Cloud (max 18 hours from now) and then decide if this is the best time to exit only achieving a minor gain this time around, thus avoiding becoming a long term holder of NMC.

Assumptions:

BTC, now back over $770 on BTC-e will through the next 48 hours only move sideways, will not drop significantly and nor will it rise above $800 during this time.

The upcoming Chinese New Year will have little to no effect on the price of BTC, and except for the continuing slight downward trend in price towards 3 March 2013, nothing major will happen to BTC, particularly in the next few days.

Hope this visually helps in some way in deciding what to do about NMC, but I think this longer term trend needs to be a guide, particularly as BTC consolidates further on its own path towards 3 March 14.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Not because of this news...but I'm anticipating $600 within the next month whenever new US rules are announced.  It will be a flash crash like how $730 was reached today.  (back up to 770)  People panic over tax and licensing news but in all honesty it clarifies things that investors want to hear.  So if it gets into the 600's it won't be there for probably more than 12 hours until it bounces back.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the best way to play it.


Who says there will be new rules?  That's putting the cart before the horse.  I don't think they'll do anything serious just yet.  I would like to hear more about this Russian dis on BTC, though.  Does anyone have a reliable translation of what they said?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Here's a long-term chart of NMC.  Of all the Alts its been around the longest so it could give us a better clue as to what is coming not only for NMC but the other major Altcoins (PPC, XPM, etc.) in the next few days:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xg8qtbbv2...%20Present.jpg
> 
> The NMC data on TradingView goes all the way back to NMC's introduction in November 2011.  After introduction, it reached a high price of 0.03 BTC and I suppose has been in a steady decline since, although having a number of significant price spikes along the way.
> 
> Without looking at the whole history of NMC, but rather focusing on the period of just prior to April 2013 through to the present time, it is worthy to note firstly that this is a Daily Chart.
> 
> A few points about this chart:
> ...


It just went above $800.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> It just went above $800.


On Bitstamp yes briefly, but was referring to BTC-e

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> On Bitstamp yes briefly, but was referring to BTC-e


Oh, I see.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

BJF's video covering the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpMZ60t0PTI

A few days old, but things to look for in an Altcoin which has potential.  Another half million mined at this end, hoping to get to 800,000 by 12 Feb 14 when the block reward halves.  Consistently over the past 5 days this has been the #1 mined coin at multipool.us.  This time around just going to hold long term.  A couple of orders of magnitude rise from here turns them into 136 BTC.

DOGE . . . . . . . . Price in BTC . . . . . . . . BTC
800,000 . . . . . . 0.0000017 . . . . . . . . . 1.36
800,000 . . . . . . 0.000017 . . . . . . . . . . 13.6
800,000 . . . . . . 0.00017 . . . . . . . . . . . 136
800,000 . . . . . . 0.0017 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1360

Dreaming?  Yes quite possibly, but DOGE has figured out the "Network Effect" required so will give it a go and most other miners are probably thinking the same thing.

Anyway check out the video and you will see the DOGE's trailer advert.

----------


## btcltc

Damn if there wasnt so many new altcoins coming out btc would be over 1000dollars now. Thats the reason i rhink we wont be seeing rocket % rising in btc anymore since so many new altcoins are created

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Is PPC going back up any time soon?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Damn if there wasnt so many new altcoins coming out btc would be over 1000dollars now. Thats the reason i rhink we wont be seeing rocket % rising in btc anymore since so many new altcoins are created


Agree to an extent.  Still BTC will be the most profitable in the long term.  Trick is to use the more popular Altcoins now to grow BTC.  Projections are BTC will average $1000 for all of 2014.  If you visit this link again:

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/JPeqaWJY3sdd6bTsg

. . . could it be this CoffeeScript was written and tested against this very period of time with expectations that BTC's price action might look like between now and July?  If so pretty flat.

To get an idea of where we are now its just after the little spike up on June 19th, 2013.  So what is that?  $781 on BTC-e.

Projecting forward, the dip down in a months time represents 3 March 2013 and the resolution of BTC's consolidation penant.  Best guess would be $675 on BTC-e give or take, as the lowest price you will ever see BTC again.

If this holds true and the same rise out of consolidation occurs (proportionally of course) as we saw after the April 2013 Spike high, then between now and July the most you will pay for BTC on BTC-e is $850ish.

That being the case its a great time to be playing the Alts and/or finding ways to turn savings/labour into more Fiat to plan your BTC purchases.

This graph ends on 3 Oct 13 and we all know what happened in Nov/Dec 13.  Aug/Sep 14 timing for next major BTC move???

. . . so it provides a bit of a timeline to think about.

Then again all this speculation goes out the window the moment the global meltdown starts and people quickly figure out there's no Gold or Silver left . . . next best thing?  The Cryptos.  Some call that as starting as early as Mid to Late March 2014.

The jumper off the JP Morgan building yesterday gives a hint its coming very soon, because its pretty much game over . . .

Bottomline is times short and 99% of the planet still hasn't figured this out yet, or if they have they are still in denial that its real and now on our doorstep.

Prepare wisely . . .

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Is PPC going back up any time soon?


On PPC I was looking for a modest correction from the late 25 Jan 14 run up.  24-36 hours only.  Then just as that was ending we had the Russia announcement and BTC falling.  This went on for about a day dragging everything down (IMHO the timing of that announcement was not coincidental, planned just as the China announcement was in December).  Then we had a mini-pop and correction on PPC and now its totally flatlined on support @ 0.00641.

NMC and XPM are both faultering.

If something is going to happen it needs to happen soon.  NMC on the daily chart just clinging to life above its Daily Ichimoku cloud.  The next day or two will tell because if it penetrates it could be going down.

All it takes is one to fire and PPC looks best positioned to do so.

Then again, with the DOGE now atop of NMC and doing 3-times NMC's daily volume and 1.5-times PPC's daily volume, could it be this is changing the dynamic we've seen in the past? (e.g. PPC moves higher but only modestly so and NMC heads lower).  The mystery will be resolved certainly in the next day or two.

----------


## fatjohn

> Well, one last big crash before the beginning of february wouldnt be that far-fetched. And then slow rise unless other big news come up.


I agree, still thinking 300 as the low.

----------


## torchbearer

would BTC going up have a factor including the fed printing 85 billion a month?

----------


## presence

//

----------


## presence

> Okay so it looks like two things happened today causing the contraction.  Bitinstant CEO we already know about...the second thing that happened is a bit more murky as I can't get a decent translation.  The Russian central bank said something negative today as well.  It wasn't a ban...but I'm not sure what it was exactly...






> The Russian Central Bank (CBR) issued a statement late Monday warning that 
> 
> 
> *virtual currencies, or**“money surrogates”** are illegal* 
> 
> 
> under Article 27 of the Federal Law _“On the Central Bank of the Russian Federation”._


http://rt.com/business/bitcoin-warning-russia-bank-280/

----------


## muh_roads

> Damn if there wasnt so many new altcoins coming out btc would be over 1000dollars now. Thats the reason i rhink we wont be seeing rocket % rising in btc anymore since so many new altcoins are created


The peons playing altcoins don't have enough to majorly move markets.  Winklevoss-type people do.

----------


## presence

*​New York announces plans for bitcoin ‘license’*http://rt.com/usa/bitcoin-regulations-new-york-320/

----------


## presence

> The peons playing altcoins don't have enough to majorly move markets.  Winklevoss-type people do.


Apparently you weren't watching Feathercoin 3 days ago when someone (fontas?) dropped a 3500 BTC buy wall on the books... or Newyear's when davidpate pumped PPC, buying $1m stake.


also there are currently 4 people w/ DOGE addresses worth more than $1m; one worth over $7m

http://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-ric...addresses.html

----------


## muh_roads

> Apparently you weren't watching Feathercoin 3 days ago when someone (fontas?) dropped a 3500 BTC buy wall on the books... or Newyear's when davidpate pumped PPC, buying $1m stake.
> 
> 
> also there are currently 4 people w/ DOGE addresses worth more than $1m; one worth over $7m
> 
> http://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-ric...addresses.html


Yeah but think about the numbers.  4m here, 1m here, 7m there.  They would only slightly move Bitcoin even if they put it all in which is currently at 10,000m.  When China was playing, a massive amount moved into BTC.  Like 6-8b.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah but think about the numbers.  4m here, 1m here, 7m there.  They would only slightly move Bitcoin even if they put it all in which is currently at 10,000m.  When China was playing, a massive amount moved into BTC.  Like 6-8b.


I think it could have an effect.  It's not all about the numbers.  It's also about the perception and the way bitcoin stands out.  As long as there is a bunch of other action, it distracts from what's going on with BTC, and it can certainly be at least somewhat significant.  Any significant movers "here and there" can have an effect on all of the followers.  

That said, this could be the year that the altcoins start to die out or mass-murder one another.  It's already happening with 42 coin and MSC plus a few others.  If that happens, and the focus turns back to BTC, that could mean another parabolic UP.  It's really just speculation, though, so there are no guarantees there.  When you add up all of the market caps of the alt coins, they most certainly are significant to BTC.  Even if you leave out Ripples because they don't necessarily "count", you still end up with a $billion that could be put into BTC.  With Ripple, it's more like $3 Billion.  That's significant.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

See what I mean about the DOGE.  5 hours ago a pump.  Didn't quite take out my 700 sell price on Cryptsy, but 556 was pretty close.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7hjg2nvfa...20Jan%2014.jpg

Will keep them there, and should it happen, just buy back in after its over.

----------


## btcltc

> I agree, still thinking 300 as the low.


maybe 300 would be pushing it abit. But definitely it should fall.
The question is how long will it take for it to recover. or will the downtrend be slow but consistent throughout feb.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> maybe 300 would be pushing it abit. But definitely it should fall.
> The question is how long will it take for it to recover. or will the downtrend be slow but consistent throughout feb.


Will it matter if one picks the absolute bottom when its $10,000+ and headed higher?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Someone keeps pumping IFC for some reason, perhaps because all the coins are mined and its the only way to get it to move now:

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/per...&market=coinex

Next time instead of doing it at CoinEx, why not come over to Cryptsy and pump to your hearts content  ;-)

----------


## btcltc

> Will it matter if one picks the absolute bottom when its $10,000+ and headed higher?


I hope you arent that narrow-minded to actually think we will be getting anywhere near those numbers anytime soon?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I hope you arent that narrow-minded to actually think we will be getting anywhere near those numbers anytime soon?


Soon?  Soon is a relativistic term.  In Geological time yes very soon.  In Gregorian Calendar time, most likely not in 2014 but quite close actually.  Is this being narrow-minded?  Not so sure, afterall there's only 21 Million BTC to go around and only 12.3 Million available today.

Have a look at this chart from a trader on TradingView

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qzm6bxje86...0in%202014.jpg

$484.80 is the low on around 6-8 March 14 in his/her opinion.  Seems in-line with other suggestions on here.  Keep watching for around this price, grab a bunch, hang onto them for 5 months, use the Alts in the meantime to multiply them as best as possible, and then round about 1 August 14 sell the lot for $8000 a pop.  Wait a few weeks for the correction and start it all over again.  Seems a plan to me. :-)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

MSC has been declining steadily for weeks.  When I saw it first, it was closer to $200, but it's been steadily dropping for the last few weeks and especially the last few days when it would lose about *15% per day* to where it's now $66.89.  Does anyone know what the heck happened to MSC?  Even the pump-n-dumps are doing better than MSC now.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Actually, I like 26 July 14 better as BTC likes to spike peak on a New Moon.  A complete New Moon/Full Moon Calendar for 2014 here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pp4gr8d5x...4-Calendar.jpg

And besides which that would be the 45th Anniversary (+ 6 Days) of when Neil Armstrong "Supposedly" first walked on the Moon . . . alas the Jury is still out on that one eh?  What better time to celebrate than with a BTC price peak?

A slow day today, charts boring as mud, thought I would spend the time playing around a bit in Illy.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> MSC has been declining steadily for weeks.  When I saw it first, it was closer to $200, but it's been steadily dropping for the last few weeks and especially the last few days when it would lose about *15% per day* to where it's now $66.89.  Does anyone know what the heck happened to MSC?  Even the pump-n-dumps are doing better than MSC now.


Could Ethereum be part of the answer to your question?:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...379#msg4683379

Ethereum website here:

http://ethereum.org/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Could Ethereum be part of the answer to your question?:
> 
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...379#msg4683379
> 
> Ethereum website here:
> 
> http://ethereum.org/


I hadn't even heard of that.  It doesn't seem like it would have that effect, simply because one of the developers of MSC has moved onto bigger things (supposedly).  Not even 42 coin seems to be getting it that bad.

----------


## presence

On maker-taker at BTCChina:

http://www.coindesk.com/btc-china-ac...bank-deposits/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btcchina/btccny

----------


## presence

> Maker-Taker is a system whereby those posting multiple buy/sell offers and increase liquidity in the market (“makers”) 
> 
> 
> are paid a fee,
> 
> 
> whereas those who take the offers and remove market liquidity (the “takers”) are charged a fee of 0.3%.

----------


## presence

so we are seeing a bot that has been designed to exploit (another bot * maker-taker)


Conceptualize what's happening...

one guy has a bot that he's sleeping in.. it will buy at one price and sell at another based on a preset margin.   It doesn't place "limit orders" it places "market orders".

Another guy... much wiser... has realized that by placing limit orders on the books will 

1) entice this other bot to buy and sell at ever decreasing margins
2) EARN "maker" fees for the winner
3) Leave the loser to wake up not just to the fees associated w/ buying and selling 100 or 200 BTCs... but 50,000 BTC worth of fees.


Someone is going to wake up so F'ed its not funny... 

And someone else is going to be swimming in a BANK of maker fees.


awww SNAP!!!

----------


## presence

Some has just had over 100 BTC drained to nothing in market order fees in less than 2 hours because they slept in a market order bot... and someone else exploited that bot w/ a limit order bot.   Holy $#@!.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> so we are seeing a bot that has been designed to exploit (another bot * maker-taker)
> 
> 
> Conceptualize what's happening...
> 
> one guy has a bot that he's sleeping in.. it will buy at one price and sell at another based on a preset margin.   It doesn't place "limit orders" it places "market orders".
> 
> Another guy... much wiser... has realized that by placing limit orders on the books will 
> 
> ...


This sounds crazy, and not good for the market...

----------


## btcltc

> Some has just had over 100 BTC drained to nothing in market order fees in less than 2 hours because they slept in a market order bot... and someone else exploited that bot w/ a limit order bot.   Holy $#@!.



I dont quitw follow. What effext might this have on the overall price on btc??

----------


## presence

> I dont quitw follow. What effext might this have on the overall price on btc??




No effect whatsoever...  


This is one man exploiting an absentee owner market order bot w/ a limit order bot.    


The show is now over.     

Someone just lost 100 BTC on fees @ BTCChina.  

Sucks to be him.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No effect whatsoever...  
> 
> 
> This is one man exploiting an absentee owner market order bot w/ a limit order bot.    
> 
> 
> The show is now over.     
> 
> Someone just lost 100 BTC on fees @ BTCChina.  
> ...


Holy $#@!, batman.

----------


## torchbearer

> No effect whatsoever...  
> 
> 
> This is one man exploiting an absentee owner market order bot w/ a limit order bot.    
> 
> 
> The show is now over.     
> 
> Someone just lost 100 BTC on fees @ BTCChina.  
> ...


lulz.

----------


## presence

> lulz.







> Someone is going to wake up so F'ed its not funny...



well... yeah... its $#@!ing funny.


lmao

----------


## Dianne

omg, I don't have any idea what you guys are talking about... but have fun; whatever it is !!

----------


## muh_roads

> This sounds crazy, and not good for the market...


It's like that $#@! kid in school that stuck gum under the desk.  Then nobody could chew gum.

That bot is going to cause exchanges to pull their API from being shared with 3rd party apps.

----------


## amonasro

> No effect whatsoever...  
> 
> 
> This is one man exploiting an absentee owner market order bot w/ a limit order bot.    
> 
> 
> The show is now over.     
> 
> Someone just lost 100 BTC on fees @ BTCChina.  
> ...


Just another reason never to sleep while day tarding... I mean trading

----------


## muh_roads

Wait a sec...maker-taker is created by BTC China & run on their servers?

BTC China should compensate the guy.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

OK PPC show that DOGE what you are made of.  New Moon is showing on the chart now.  Just a bit of Ichimoku resistance to leap over on the 3-Hour and then on through to 706.  Question is, with the new DOGE on the block breathing down your neck, will you stumble and fail at 782 this time around?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7tw7mfvcspilgit/PPC%20-%2031%20Jan%2014%20-%203%20Hour.jpg

So where is PPC really headed from here and why?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0x2y82eo4...20Jan%2014.jpg

Why?  It's Called Bragging Rights, that's why.

. . . it will all become clearer when I post my DOGE analysis a bit later.

----------


## muh_roads

> Could Ethereum be part of the answer to your question?:
> 
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...379#msg4683379
> 
> Ethereum website here:
> 
> http://ethereum.org/


Ethereum will be 40% inflation per year.  No supply cap.  If they raise 30k in BTC, you can only cash out if 2/3rds more is raised on top of that and it has to be two years down the road or something.

It has also got some proof of stake mixed in with the proof of work that early investors can premine.  Socialism FTL.

So many smart programmers out there....yet so dumb at economics.  This is what is great about Bitcoin.  Satoshi understood both.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Let me begin this by saying its going to be a pretty futile attempt on the part of PPC (and its fans) to try to hang onto 3rd spot on the charts from here, but oh well here's to hoping they try in the next few days, at least from now till 6-8 February hey  ;-) . . .

Lets begin shall we, Exhibit A (and the Only):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttsazn5uv9...t-Cap-Move.jpg

Market Cap Chart for the DOGE, extended through time on into late February 2014.

First thing to notice following the recent DOGE runup.

Total failure at the Fib Retracement of 50-62% (red dashed line).

Why is that?

Because since 17 Jan 14, if you have been observing as I have, the miners have been absolutely mauling DOGE and bringing 1 Billion coins into existance every day since then.  So even if the price of the DOGE goes sideways or down the market cap goes up.  Thus we have a green trend line for the DOGE Market Cap.

Yes, so what?  Well the so what part is there are as of this moment only 60 Billion or 60 days left of the DOGE left to mine.

Observation:  Over at multipool.us, when the pool switches over to some other coin to mine which is more profitable than the DOGE (e.g. as is shown recently with the MOON), guess what?  They Ain't Following.  Still over 80% of the miners are sticking to mining the DOGE.  Tells me they are no longer part of the Pool, but dedicated to port 3352, just as my Mining Rigs are right now.  :-)

This is a first, so far as I have observed . . . Most times its just the sheep following blindly . . .

So if we look at the Market Cap for the DOGE, even though its price over the last 5-6 days has been stagnant to down, people are mining the crap out of it.

So from this illustration we have some trend lines.  A green support line and a red one, which I will call a resistance line.

Between the two we have a funnel, lets call it a Buy, Mine and Hold Funnel.  Anywhere in there on the Market Cap and you just accumulate and hold the DOGE.  If ever the Market Cap falls below the green line, you buy for your life, and anywhere outside the funnel to the upside, you sell the DOGE and take profits, and then await a price retracement down and buy back in.

Enter the date 12 Feb 14.

The DOGE Block Reward Halves . . . in other words all these miners will suddenly discover that their mining rewards will halve in terms of actual coins discovered, hashed and mined.  Which should mean the DOGE finds a sudden bit of upwards price pressure.

So then what?  Green dashed lines.  Either heaps of DOGE Miners will abandon ship and the bottom dashed line for the Market Cap applies, or else Miners will continue mining and others will jump on board due to the sudden price rise and the upper dashed line for the Market Cap applies.

In either case, come 12 Feb 14, upwards price pressure should come into play, and whether one likes the fact that there will soon be 100 Billion DOGE's in existance or not, its going to happen!

So OK, Peercoin?  What about Peercoin through all of this?  Well right now as I type this the PPC Market Cap is at around $117 Million, so lets call it $120 Million (look left on the graphic for the PPC Coin Icon).

Obviously from what you see before you, if the DOGE remains stagnant in price through the next 20 days or so, and 20 Billion new DOGE's are mined into existance, then PPC will be relegated to 4th spot on the charts.  Full stop, end of story, its done and dusted!

But PPC is moving up in price right now, won't this have an effect?  Of course it will, but how high of an upward move would PPC naturally allow right now particularly since BTC is moving sideways?  Realistically, little to none.

So just sayin'

1.  DOGE's claim to 3rd Spot on the Market Cap list is a fait accomplis already, just a matter of when, and PPC can't do nothing about that, although I am hoping the suckers with the big fat BTC accounts will try to alter history.

2.  PPC?  Will it rollover and die?  I doubt it will, but just how much upwards price pressure will its devotee's accomodate before it decides to rollover and die?

When you figure out the answer to Question 2, let me know and I will set my Sell Stops there.  Deal?  Deal!

Oh yes, come 1 April 2014 . . . LTC, get ready for the Bronze Medallion!!!  Because its coming.  Network Effect promise proven to be dying last 30 days (just look at the dying charts!), its down down from here, or better put DOGE will give you a big fat sloppy Shiba Inu Kiss as it passes you between here and there . . . MWAAAAAH!  :-)

Forgot the best part . . . Notice the MOON of late when the DOGE isn't the most preferred miner . . . Off the Charts in profitability!  Well we will get to that one later won't we . . .

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwpiqrocc0...g-Mooncoin.jpg

3.8:1, remember that . . . 1 DOGE = 3.8 Moons . . .and with that acknowledged, all will be well and good!  And alas, there will be peace and happiness everywhere . . .

Warmup Tune :-) . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RkhZ4h9DrTo#t=47  52

----------


## SomewhereInOz

But suckered 200 Million Americans into Happysville didn't it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2rv3eub69...-Armstrong.jpg

I mean wake the $#@! Up Already . . . YOU HAVE BEEN, ARE BEING, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE PLAYED UNTIL YOU WAKE UP OUT OF STUPIDSVILLE!!!!

Laugh my Ass Off . . . NASA = NAZI, always was, always will be . . . Just another tool of the New World Order!  And if any doubts just do some research on the AssClown FreeMason depicted in the Pic above.  No wonder he spent 40 years in hiding at Penn State post '69 eh?  Ask youselves why?  Answer was "Shame, Shame, Shame" at the bull$#@! he helped perpetrate upon Amerika!

Amerika . . . always destined to be a New World Order experiment . . . and that which must be the first to be destroyed in order to bring about the NEW WORLD ORDER!




. . . yes but now we have Bitcoin, so $#@! 'Em, and their New World Order Plans!!!!!!!

----------


## KCIndy

> omg, I don't have any idea what you guys are talking about... but have fun; whatever it is !!



Me neither, Dianne, but since there are lots of pretty colors and wavy lines on the charts, I'm insanely happy.

Of course, I please easily.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Me neither, Dianne, but since there are lots of pretty colors and wavy lines on the charts, I'm insanely happy.
> 
> Of course, I please easily.


It's pretty simple . . . if you choose to use publicly available, widely acknowledged and known trading Bots (known especially to the AntiBot people watching), you will get screwed, because you are sending out your calling card saying "come and get me, rape me and steal from me, because I'm a sucker who couldn't spend the time in research how this really works!"  Well then . . . You deserve what you get!

PIG IN A POKE!

Deploy a Bot with real cash, without knowing what you are doing, without knowing what every single line of code is doing, and without doing due diligence and research . . . WELL THEN YOU ARE A FOOL AND DESERVE TO GET SCREWED!!!!

----------


## presence

> Me neither, Dianne, but since there are lots of pretty colors and wavy lines on the charts, I'm insanely happy.
> 
> Of course, I please easily.



I'll try to break this down for you in simplest terms.

This is an orderbook:




People place buy and sell orders on the book for the price they are willing to pay for BTC... or sell their bitcoin for. 

BTCChina is calling these people "makers" and is paying them a very small microbonus if they place an order "on the books" and leave it there until it transacts.  These orders are called "Limit Orders"... the people who place them are only willing to buy BTC if price is under the limit they have "bid".... conversely... on the sell side of the book... they're only willing to sell BTC if the price is at least the price they're "asking".   

_Exchanges like to see their orderbook "populated" with limit orders_ because it promotes an active exchange environment... hence the **NEW* "bonus"* for placing limit orders at BTCChina.  In the image above there isn't much "population in the orderbook";  its easy to buy or sell $1000 of BTC for about $795/btc but if you wanted to buy or sell $250,000 worth of bitcoin in the next 10 minutes (market order)... you'd probably go to some other exchange... because there aren't enough offers near the middle to get you a fair price... you'd have to dig deeper into the orderbook, to find someone to exchange with... and you'd get a less fair deal.   


So in this way... market orders are different.   People placing market orders don't put anything on the books... they _TAKE the best deal OFF of the books._    BTCChina *penalizes* people for doing this with a micro fee.   


Before the "maker-taker" program everyone got charged a fee... didn't matter if they placed "limit orders" or "market orders"; at BTCe exchange for example.. the fee is 0.2% for all transactions... both the buyer and seller pay the fee... regardless of who *made* the offer and who *took* it.


follow?


In order to make any money day trading in the "old paradigm" you had to buy low and sell high... *and* have enough "margin" to cover your fees associated with both buying and selling.  So at BTCe you would need 0.2% + 0.2% = 0.4% margin to make a "day trade" break even.


In the "maker taker" paradigm... You could buy and sell for the same price... over and over and over again... and if you could manage to do so by ONLY placing limit orders... well... then the exchange would reward you for being a market "maker".   And if your volume was high enough... those micro bonuses rewarded would stack up into a nice stash... even though you traded *without a profitable margin.*

However its difficult to do that because you have to wait on someone else to buy and someone else to sell back to you at the same price... and if there isn't much volatility... if the price stays the same... well... then there isn't much volume and you really don't make much on fees.



*Enter some moron w/ 100BTC and a bot that places market orders* whenever it sees what it perceives to be a "good deal" on the books.   I'm not sure exactly how this market order bot was coded... but something of the effect... "oh $#@!... good deal... buy"  "wait no never mind... sell" "oh $#@!... good deal... buy"  "wait no never mind... sell" "oh $#@!... good deal... buy"  "wait no never mind... sell" ad infinity... 

and in the past... by placing this market order he was such a big fish with his 100 BTC order that he actually moved the market.   

Well our limit order genius noticed this bots actions and decided to exploit it... so he enticed the bot to buy "into" his limit sell order... then sell into his limit buy order... over and over and over again...

The limit order bot and the market order bot went to war for 2 hours like this... each armed with 100 BTC.  

Limit order man got 0.1% bonus for every transaction...

Market order bot got stuck w/ 0.2% fee for every transaction...

BTCChina netted 0.1% on every transaction...

*over the course of 2 hours*...  at 3 AM China time...  this war of market order vs limit order bots each with only 100 BTC to spend... caused 50,000 BTC worth of transactions to occur.

Each transaction getting a little smaller... and smaller as the market order bot ran out of funds...

100 Buy
100 Sell
99.8 Buy  <<< less 0.2% fee lost in transaction
99.8 Sell
99.6 Buy  <<< less 0.2% again
99.6 Sell

...


99 Buy  <<< less many more fees
99 Sell
98 Buy
98 Sell
97 Buy
97 Sell
...

90 90  <<< less many many many more fees
80 80 
70 70

...


40 40    <<<< right about here, about 90 minutes into the bot war... I realized what was happening
30 30


19 
18
17
16
15
14
13   

...

3 
2
1

....



I suspect the owner of the market order bot was sleeping.   



The owner of the limit order bot was glowing!




so we do the math:

50,000 BTC of back and forth transactions x 0.2% fee
=
100 BTC *fee* for the owner of the market order bot!





0.1% bonus = 50 BTC* bonus* for the limit order bot!

and the difference leaves:

50 BTC in profits for BTCChina




now... if you "please easily"...


You should be laughing your ass off about now.

----------


## torchbearer

great explanation! definitely helps when the terms are defined.

----------


## presence

June 2013 is one of the most difficult trading situations for a "long" bot to trade.  I'm a member of cryptotrader.org and you can ask any member there... June 2013 is the epitome of hellish decline in bot world.  

I personally have folded to fiat and I suggest you do the same.  Every open source bot that I have tested or tuned has failed during June 2013.   


Until now, enter...

*The Red Dragon Bot*


Yesterday I created this sniping bot... It does nothing but hold fiat and wait... in backtests, it buys the bottom of the first bounce on June 8th, quickly offloads it for a 10% gain, then continues to hold fiat until it buys the absolute bottom of the June 2013 decline on July 6th.   It then gives you 48 hours to disable the bot and ride the July 2013 Rally.

It is my expectation that February 2014 will mirror the events of June 2013 as you see in the image above.   

The bot makes a series of small bids every 15 minutes until you move in and out of BTC.   Below you see the backtests of this bot with the exact same settings for GOX, STAMP, and BTCE.   In each instance it earns between 6 and 10% on the 1st bounce... and nails the bottom.   The coding is VERY simple and easy to understand and will be included with purchase.  It is very easily adjustable if you wish to fine tune.   Because the bot is trading in multiple small bids on 15 minute scale, and can be offset from other versions by 1 minute increments, many users can use the bot without causing conflict with one another on the exchanges.


This bot is *FOR SALE*.


Terms will follow. 





My Red Dragon bot performing @ GOX, STAMP, and BTCE from June 8th 2013 to July 8th 2013.   It makes no purchases from May31st to June 8th.  In each instance of backtest the bot was given the SAME initial conditions for all 3 markets.  Between the buy at July 6th and the Sell at July 8th, you have about 48 hours to turn the bot off... and engage a bullish "long" bot... or trade manually.  Historically... after the June 2013 correction, July and August were bullish; more than double your money if you bought the bottom. 






*TERMS:*

1) You send me 2 LTC
2) I send you the backtest and code for THE RED DRAGON BOT
3) ***YOU DO NOT SHARE THE BOT WITH ANYONE***
4) You, at your discretion, send me 10% of your profits on the first bounce as a gratuity
5) If the the bot makes any of its micro bids within 2% of the absolute bottom, you send me an additional 10% gratuity of your gains on the 1st bounce.
6) Upon paying your first gratuity I will send you my latest personal tune of one or more "long" bots tuned for neutral to bullish markets.  
7) If I like dealing with you (upon sending your second gratuity)... I may wish to continue sending you periodic "retunes"; additional terms will follow.
8) This bot requires a subscription from www.cryptotrader.org  Basic subscription starts at $24/mo, I make no claims as to the reliability of their service except to say that I am a member and I trust cryptotrader.org for my personal use.



Please contact me at rpfpresence@gmail.com before sending your funds.

I'm a long time member here at ronpaulforum.com with high reputation for contributing to the cause of Liberty.  

If you send me 2 LTC, and I send you THE RED DRAGON and you do not like the bot for any reason, I will return 1 LTC to you and ask that you not use my bot or share my code. 


If you loose money using my bot.  I am sorry.  You trade at YOUR OWN RISK.  I will NOT indemnify your losses; I am held harmless and NOT responsible.  


Thank you for your interest.  Best of luck.


litepresence, btce trollbox 
presence, ronpaulforums.com
oraclepresence, twitter


*rpfpresence@gmail.com for ALL bot inquiries



*











$500/BTC >>> http://i58.tinypic.com/1zmzhp1.png $10/LTC >>> http://i57.tinypic.com/24azluu.png any questions?



IMAGE MAY GO OFF EDGE OF SCREEN CLICK ON LINK ABOVE FOR FULL SIZE IMAGE

----------


## nayjevin

> Deploy a Bot with real cash, without knowing what you are doing, without knowing what every single line of code is doing, and without doing due diligence and research . . . WELL THEN YOU ARE A FOOL AND DESERVE TO GET SCREWED!!!!


yeah test a bot and get zero usable data because the market was manipulated in an unanticipatedly pesonally disadvantageous manner, in an extremely short period of time.  Look kid, if you're dumb enough to carry your lunch money, THWACK!

----------


## Dianne

> Me neither, Dianne, but since there are lots of pretty colors and wavy lines on the charts, I'm insanely happy.
> 
> Of course, I please easil


lololol

----------


## Dianne

> I'll try to break this down for you in simplest terms.
> 
> This is an orderbook:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People place buy and sell orders on the book for the price they are willing to pay for BTC... or sell their bitcoin for. 
> 
> ...


Yes, thanks for the explanation !!   All makes sense now.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Is Cryptsy slow like this all the time?  I can't update my orders.

----------


## presence

> Is Cryptsy slow like this all the time?  I can't update my orders.


Every time I've traded cryptsy it takes +/- 5 minutes to place and cancel orders; an hour or more to move coins in and out of the exchange.   Blame it on the Bangledeshi children on exercise bikes that power the server.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Every time I've traded cryptsy it takes +/- 5 minutes to place and cancel orders; an hour or more to move coins in and out of the exchange.   Blame it on the Bangledeshi children on exercise bikes that power the server.


Thanks.  I finally took some market orders at a slightly higher price, but already making back some of the BTC I lost earlier.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> yeah test a bot and get zero usable data because the market was manipulated in an unanticipatedly pesonally disadvantageous manner, in an extremely short period of time.  Look kid, if you're dumb enough to carry your lunch money, THWACK!


It wasn't necessarily unanticipated.  The maker-taker fees and bonuses that BTCChina had weren't a secret.

----------


## nayjevin

> It wasn't necessarily unanticipated.  The maker-taker fees and bonuses that BTCChina had weren't a secret.


Nor was it exactly lunch money.  But what I'm getting at is you can't expect to test a bot in that kind of environment without real money, and you can't expect to be able to get good feedback from the market, because it's going to be manipulated, in ways that are not predictable.  So the position that a person is stupid for testing a bot, is misguided, cause you gotta start somewhere.  Seems like making fun of the bloody guy after a fight to me.

----------


## presence



----------


## KCIndy

> I'll try to break this down for you in simplest terms.
> 
> .......
> 
> now... if you "please easily"...
> 
> 
> You should be laughing your ass off about now.




Lulz...   I was kinda/sorta joking about the "pretty colors and wavy lines" but that was a FANTASTIC explanation.  You could - and should - look into writing some articles along these lines for Business Weekly or Forbes or something.  It is one thing to understand a topic, it is entirely another to be able to explain it accurately in a clear, concise and understandable manner.

And yeah, the dude getting "botted" for 100 BTC is amusing.  (Although I'm sure it wasn't for the guy who lost the 'coin, ha!)

I wish I had the time to really get into altcoin trading in a bit way.  I have a hunch it's going to be a really interesting market for the next year or two.

----------


## KCIndy

> Nor was it exactly lunch money.  But what I'm getting at is you can't expect to test a bot in that kind of environment without real money, and you can't expect to be able to get good feedback from the market, because it's going to be manipulated, in ways that are not predictable.  So the position that a person is stupid for testing a bot, is misguided, cause you gotta start somewhere.  Seems like making fun of the bloody guy after a fight to me.



Yeah, but if I was testing something new and had 100 BTC on the line, I can guarantee that I would be watching that S.O.B. like a hungry hawk eyeballing a fat crippled mouse.

----------


## presence



----------


## SomewhereInOz

How much DOGE do you want in your Portfolio?  I don't know, but the more vids like this I see I'm thinking very heavily weighted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wL1xNHq9ok

Never see videos like this for LTC, PPC, NMC, etc.  In otherwords the Network Effect is growing and so soon shall the price be.

Have mined the first 1 BTC of DOGE and all going to plan will have the 2nd in before the block reward halves.

----------


## fatjohn

Clear breakout occurred just minutes ag 4994 on huobi now back down to 4966. $#@!.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> How much DOGE do you want in your Portfolio?  I don't know, but the more vids like this I see I'm thinking very heavily weighted!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wL1xNHq9ok
> 
> Never see videos like this for LTC, PPC, NMC, etc.  In otherwords the Network Effect is growing and so soon shall the price be.
> 
> Have mined the first 1 BTC of DOGE and all going to plan will have the 2nd in before the block reward halves.


Would you recommend buying Doge?

----------


## btcltc

> Would you recommend buying Doge?


So we are officially past the chinese regulation new year thingy btcchina even said they opened up for deposits again. So no more really bad news to say but we arent exactly seeing an uptrend. How long will it take until we are back where we were 3 weeks ago?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Would you recommend buying Doge?


*“Only buy something that you’d be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years.”
-Warren Buffett*

----------


## presence

> Clear breakout occurred just minutes ag 4994 on huobi now back down to 4966. $#@!.


have a peak at your clear breakout on 12h scale:




also, notice the plateau of "overbought" on the 4h RSI




*“We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful.” -Warren Buffett*

----------


## nayjevin

> *“Only buy something that you’d be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years.”
> -Warren Buffett*
> 
> *“We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful.” -Warren Buffett*


Second quote doesn't work without adherence to the first.  And gotta be right about what's good to hold longterm.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Would you recommend buying Doge?


Yes I would invest in the DOGE, but not yet for the following reasons:


1.  Firstly have a look at the latest DOGE trend channel, its down and by being patient you might just get them for 130 or 120, particularly if all works out as indicated below:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cj5jsk261...nd-Channel.jpg


2.  Right now we a look-alike situation with PPC (as has been discussed on here for a while).  We have a MACD cross on the PPC 12-Hour at this moment it looks like PPC is getting ready to move through a number of resistance lines all associated with the drawn out month-long downtrend.


3.  If you are watching NMC on the 1 and 5 minute its looking like its itching to break as well, but will need PPC to send the signal first - no 12-Hour MA cross yet, but its close.  Currently caught up on a new downtrending resistance line which formed as far back as 11 January.  NMC needs to break that first.


4.  Back on PPC, it was 37 days from spike top on 28 Nov until spike top on 3 Jan.  Add 37 days to 3 Jan and you come to a resolution one way or the other on PPC by 9 Feb 14.  When I look at the 12-Hour MACD for PPC, we are now starting to see green bars, so it could move quick from here, or we may have a bit of a delay and the remainder of this move happening by say the 6th or 7th or 8th of February when its time to get out.  Same with NMC although IF that takes off it will be fast, probably all over in Four 4-Hour Green Candles, so you will want to have you sell orders locked down on Cryptsy in advance.  It all depends, could happen quicker, so you are going to need to keep an eye on it.


5. Right now the DOGE volume is lower than both PPC and NMC, and people might be eyeing off this potential move with PPC and NMC and holding off on the DOGE, thus its falling - great news if you are wanting some.


6. So the ideal situation might just be take profits on PPC/NMC on say 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Feb (whichever date looks the best) and pump some into the DOGE IFF the DOGE price is where you want it at that time.


7. Added significance of the 8th of February is, this is the start of the Winter Olympics in Sochi.  If you watched one of the last videos posted, people have been sending the DOGE in support of the Jamaican Bobsled Team and various other athletes from non-traditional Winter Sporting countries.  It just may well be that this global gathering will see increased awareness raised about the DOGE then.  Olympic dates here:


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/winter-olympics/25763228


8. Of course added to this, on 12 Feb 14, the DOGE miners will see their discovered block rewards halved from 100,000 coins down to 50,000 coins which should also add to increased price pressure.  Over on multipool.us, nearly every miner has been mining the DOGE non-stop since the price jump a week ago.  Now over 41% mined and headed quickly to 42%.


9. In the troll boxes, miners boasting they are sitting on over $1.5 Million in the DOGE and they are right, particularly if they have been mining from day one, not selling a single DOGE and were wise enough early on to notice the Network Effect growing.


10. Right now the only DOGE I have are those I have mined recently (1.1 BTC worth).  Its stinkin' hot here again (45C) and not looking like there will be a big letup all week this time around, but the rigs are hanging in there and cranking out the DOGE at a rate of 72,000 a day.  This is averaging 1 BTC a week, whereas I was only counting on 1 BTC every 10 Days.  If possible to achieve this through 2014 that's 52 BTC vs 36.5 BTC.  However, I think after 12 Feb the DOGE won't be near as profitable, so other coins will need to compensate to keep it going - ATM LOT and TIPS seem a potential substitute, but of course tomorrow we get to have a peek at Reddcoin and see how pre-mined it is.  I am pessimistic this will happen (52 BTC for the year), but we shall see.


Anyway all this to say, yes I would invest in the DOGE but not yet.  Watch PPC/NMC first, take some profits, then watch the DOGE trendline and try to pick a bottom there if possible, then watch for news on the DOGE both during the Olympics and following the 12 Feb Block Reward halving.  If I were the DOGE developers this would be an amazing time to increase their Network Effect and global awareness of the DOGE, and if done correctly won't step on IOC advertising rules.


Of course all of this needs to be tempered with an anticipated BTC price drop a couple of times between now and 3-6 March.  If one feels safest just hanging around all in BTC through that time and riding it out until price increases start again in early to mid-March, then that is perhaps a good plan as well, because when BTC falls the Alts tend to get smashed.  So that could well be another time to pick up some DOGE cheaper, but just be aware of the potential impact of both the Olympics and the Block Reward Halving.


My plan is buy/mine the DOGE now, hang on at least 3 months or until the upper Market Cap resistance line gets broken and then I will sell them and buy back in at a lower price.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

. . . just when you thunk you had it figured, this goes and happens

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hexg1zdnaa...20Feb%2014.jpg

Maybe it will be nice and correct back and play within trend . . . doubt it!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Not sure, its too early to tell, but 1 BTC = $3405 was meant to happen 15 January . . . and as $3405 is the Bankster release date on the PM's I thought it odd we would need to wait till July 14 for that to happen, especially with what is coming mid-late March 2014 and what with all the Bankster Suicides of late and all . . .

Last Week's WebBot Report kinda saw this happening didn't it . . . 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8v6yt6nww...RP_Bitcoin.pdf

Silver 348% growth in linguistics, gotta love that!

Unfortunately it also sees this unusually late heat spell we've got happening turning to a brutal winter come July as well:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/210sbm1ydt...l%20Winter.jpg

This will teach me to listen to the Web Bots more closely and not some long term trend charts, now won't it!

Grrrrrrrrrr!

Always best to be locked down into BTC when this happens . . . Oh well, PPC and NMC should go off their nut this Lunar New Moon, so that is a consolation prize I suppose.

I suppose you can say that the Chinese have been having a bit of a chin-wag over the Lunar New Year Holidays, and the verdict is in.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Last weeks meeting in Davos probably fixed China Trust's problem now didn't it  ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZeEl...CFN6TpwR84zyfg

Get ready, a very wild ride coming over next 8 weeks and from there it gets even wilder.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Just wondering out loud when Jeff Bezos and John Donahoe get asked to be interviewed by Let's Talk Bitcoin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMX8D0dGj6E

If/when that happens its game over cheap BTC.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

PPC is just itching to break now, and is saying 'what the hell is the hold up here?'

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwro0ugra2...Feb%202014.jpg

For heavens sake, will somebody give a GO signal already!!!???!!!

----------


## btcltc

> PPC is just itching to break now, and is saying 'what the hell is the hold up here?'
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwro0ugra2...Feb%202014.jpg
> 
> For heavens sake, will somebody give a GO signal already!!!???!!!



Both nmc and ppc should both be ready to GO. No idea why not because thers nothing holding back

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Stop Order Time, Don't Be Late!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9k35i0tez...Order-Time.jpg

. . . esp if using Cyrptsy  :-)

HINT, HINT, a single line not readily drawn on Bitcoinwisdom tells you when  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Both nmc and ppc should both be ready to GO. No idea why not because thers nothing holding back


Not watching closely enough.  The Green signal is illusive, but its obvious.

. . . and thus far its not happening!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

The Line?  Well of course its the MACD top downtrending line from the past two months shown in this diagram:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvt7u5smd3...-Downtrend.jpg

I guess its my way of realising and saying I no longer have any faith whatsoever in PPC, and by logical extension NMC (see previous posts, it explains it all).  So its time to ditch, abandon and move on.

Back at 0.005 PPC bottom though, I was picking up as many PPC as I could as fast I could (10 BTC worth), knowing the chart pattern from the past.

When it hit 0.0072 I was selling 'em faster than a Snowballs Fight in Hades, knowing it hit resistance and was headed down again, most likely for at least 24-36 hours (so I thought) but as it turned out . . . 5 days.

Picked up half as many again at the bottom support line, and only half at 0.0064 because I new this wouldn't last like the last time.  Initial buy 10 BTC worth, seconday buy 5 BTC worth.

I'm in the process of ditching these last 5 BTC now with a max sell price of 0.00785 which will be in a MAX Four 12-Hour periods away from now (see MACD trend line and next resistance line).  To be honest, if I get 0.00775 I will be lucky.  Just count the MACD hollow green bars and you will find the max sell price attainable.

From there its down, down, down for PPC or sideways for a long while, esp since we never saw the PPC Pundits overload it like they did the last time and I suppose BTC's modest rise has been part of the problem as well.

. . . and besides which the DOGE is the new REAL game in town, so why not take profits and head over there for a play next  :-)

2.7 BTC in profits so far, so I am happy, but not willing to risk things further.

Anyway from all previous posts on here, now you understand the tools, the trendlines, how to read the MACD, etc. etc.  Should you achieve > 0.00785 this time around on PPC, I congratulate you in advance, but I'm headed over to DOGE-Land with my winnings from here to see what I can do.  Wish you luck on both PPC and NMC from here.

See you over there eventually, I am sure.  Once it bottoms, we'll have a real good time!  ;-)

----------


## btcltc

Why would be gettin into a downtrend, we are free for uptrends, no bad news anymore. its gogo time from here. why dont freaking people buy.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Does anyone know why it's taken me over a day to get my coins out of Cryptsy?  I withdrew them yesterday and they still haven't arrived.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Not sure, its too early to tell, but 1 BTC = $3405 was meant to happen 15 January . . . and as $3405 is the Bankster release date on the PM's I thought it odd we would need to wait till July 14 for that to happen, especially with what is coming mid-late March 2014 and what with all the Bankster Suicides of late and all . . .
> 
> Last Week's WebBot Report kinda saw this happening didn't it . . . 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8v6yt6nww...RP_Bitcoin.pdf
> 
> Silver 348% growth in linguistics, gotta love that!
> 
> Unfortunately it also sees this unusually late heat spell we've got happening turning to a brutal winter come July as well:
> ...


What is the actual date of the Lunar New Moon?

----------


## Dianne

> Does anyone know why it's taken me over a day to get my coins out of Cryptsy?  I withdrew them yesterday and they still haven't arrived.


Yesterday and the day before, I had a hard time with mooncoin and dogecoin.   It took hours to get the transfers done.   I have found their support to be pretty good, so click the support button and file a ticket.      I did read on one of the competing exchanges that Cryptsy is testing a new server; but then again, that's a trollbox so who knows.

----------


## presence

6 RED DRAGON bots sold!

Much thanks my friends!

----------


## presence

via google translate


http://volgoproc.ru/newversion/cgi-b...c=view&id=2331




> Print version
> 
> 
> 
> *03/02/2014: The prosecutor's office in Volgograd
> initiation of the criminal case against the online resources that provide services to the so-called exchangeBased on materials from the prosecutor's check the criminal case of fraud (Article 159 of the Criminal Code), the legalization (laundering) of funds acquired by other persons crime (Article 174, part 2) in respect of online resources that provide services to the so-called exchange "Virtual currency".
> Materials tests demonstrate illegal use of so-called "Virtual currency", including anti-money income, fraud and terrorism financing. The prosecutor's office in Volgograd intends to apply for termination of access to resources, providing services for the exchange of "virtual currency", as well as their use. Raised the issue of the prosecution of legal and natural persons providing these services.
> For a number of resources is checked. Materials for some of them, namely - btc-e.com and metabank.ru transferred to the Central Investigation Department of the RF IC.
> In the near future will be asked to send prescriptions Roscomnadzor to lock data online resources in order to prevent new offenses.
> ...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

//

----------


## Suzu

> 6 RED DRAGON bots sold!
> 
> Much thanks my friends!


Can you explain in very simple terms what the program does, exactly?

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

600 is about the range I'm looking at too.

My fiat is ready.

----------


## muh_roads

> Can you explain in very simple terms what the program does, exactly?


Same here.

2 LTC you said pres?  How has it been working out for you?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...-year-forever/

Hmmmm, good for the usage of DOGE perhaps in the long-term, but impact on early hoarders and speculators?  And what will become of the high rate of DOGE mining going on right now.  Something to watch in the coming days/weeks for sure.

----------


## presence

> Can you explain in very simple terms what the program does, exactly?





Most of the time it does absolutely nothing... just like you should be doing right now.   HOLD FIAT.   In this stage of a bubble price "slides" over a hillside... most of the trade worthy volatility is lost because we're so far from the peak of the bubble in time... margins are tight and its difficult to profit on day trades.   So you sit in fiat and wait...   At some point that slide will accelerate... Check you 12h charts MA's 5 15 30 120, to see what I'm talking about.  When it accelerates the price will drop low enough to trigger the bot from its slumber... 

At which point it will begin buying every 15 minutes... machine gun style... It will spend 25% (adjustable) of your remaining balance on every 15m tick until you are totally bought in.   Then it waits for the bounce... which in this stage of the bubble should take about 48 hours to materialize.   At which point it does the opposite... dumping 25% of your crypto holdings every 15 minutes.  I programmed it to buy and sell in pieces so many ppl could run the same bot and not interfere with one another. or someone w/ large bank could run it without "drowning" in their own wake... Using the CT.org offset feature to offset the tick count by 1 to 14 minutes from the close of the 15m period also helps in this regard.


Here is a zoom in of what happens on the "first bounce" this is a backtest of June 9th buy in and June 11th sell; note how it "paints" with multiple buy and sell points, all limit ordered at the line "short" or better; there are additional limits placed on the bot... note during the buy in when there is a brief bounce... it pauses for a moment before continuing to collect.





of course a steady hand and nerves of steel could make you much more $$ on the whiplash in between... but the safe bet is buy low once and sell high 2 days later... and that's what this bot does.  All logic is based in ema divergence.  


My expectations... 

Down to 650, back up to 725, then down to 500.

Of course the bot will nail these ranges better than I can extrapolate because it has live data.  


but... once it buys "650" and offloads "725"... the bot will sit silent again for another 10-20 day period of time holding fiat... the "june 2013 slide" is not over... process will repeat... 

In page 4 of this thread I posted the "stages of a bubble" and a second chart (which I drew) that shows the stages of "the backside of the bubble" in more detail.   The bot is designed to hold fiat during "red dragons phase I"  then capitalize on "purgatory" w/ 10% gain... then buy the bottom of "red dragons phase 2" as price returns "to the hive"


It will buy in within 1 to 2% of the absolute bottom... which I expect to be about $500... then begin its offload cycle again in 48 hours.


Once it buys that bottom you should TURN IT OFF.  Before it offloads your crypto for another 10% gain...  If you look back in time... July/August 2013 were quite bullish periods where the best move was just to hold crypto for 2X your money if you bought the bottom on July 8th.


The bot runs under the expecation that price is ALWAYS sliding... and dead cat bouncing.   This isn't true in a "long term" sense for bitcoin... but it is true on the short term as BTC price "returns to the long mean" of 0.6% daily.  


 Hope this helps!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I would be taking a slight loss if I sold now, so I'm not sure if it's worth it to sell and buy back in cheaper.  If it goes down as low as you say it will, pres, then it would probably be worth it, but I'm not so sure it will go all the way to 500.  It might be better to just ride it out and wait on the other side.  I would need it to rise back up into the 825-830 range before I could break even on my most recent trade.  I'm not sure it will reach that again for a while, but I'm hesitant to sell in anticipation of a large drop because it might not really be THAT large.

----------


## btcltc

So we are expected BTC to drop to 500 dollars... over nothing. Just like that?
I think rather in the next few days we rally to 1000 dollars again and then might shift back.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So we are expected BTC to drop to 500 dollars... over nothing. Just like that?
> I think rather in the next few days we rally to 1000 dollars again and then might shift back.


What do you base that on?

----------


## presence

*Think you know everything bitcoin? Meet Mircea Popescu of Romania*

----------


## muh_roads

> When it accelerates the price will drop low enough to trigger the bot from its slumber...


Is that based on a percent?

----------


## Dianne

[QUOTE=PaulConventionWV;5403621]What do you base that 

Several different opinions ... arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...

----------


## presence

100BTC?


Not a problem.  



I would run 3 or more instances of the bot to reduce risk, market impact, and hedge. The "user control panel" should be quite intuitive; just stay out of the "code" below... be sure to backtest any changes on the June 8 to July 8 window and all will be good.  


My recommendations:  


The first two initial conditions are set to: -12.5 and 2.  Run one instance as is w/ 1/3 of your bank.   Run two other instances tuned to -12 and 1.75; and the third tuned to -11 and 1.5; each with a 1/3 of your funds.  If you wanted to break it up smaller... go as tight as -10 to 1 and keep even spacing.  Even for smaller amounts of funds, if you're a conservative trader and wish to hedge losses 3 instances of this bot would be a more "sure" but less profitable/leveraged bet.  You may also wish to adjust the % your spend per bid.  If you have any questions about the control panel please ask.  


Pro account @ CT.org allow up to 5 traders.  VIP allows 10.  The "rules" when you sign up is that Pro accounts only support up to 20k usd, but I do know of some people running upto $50k on pro account without issue.  You will have to make your own decision.  You can always upgrade a PRO to VIP later.  Honestly, I have no idea how CT.org would stop you from asking a bot to spend more, or know what funds you held at btce or any other exchange.   But no shame in supporting CT.org by paying upfront for VIP account privileges... down the line there are some fancy things you can do w/ 10 bots 


When you initialize the bot, have your funds in fiat and be sure to tune each bot to a different offset to minimize their effect on each other.  The RED DRAGON runs on 15m candles.  So you want to set a random offset for each instance from 1 to 14 minutes.  You will be prompted to do this after you input your API key.    If you are just a hedge your losses type and don't really want to give your bot access to all of your funds you can create another exchange account as you would create another savings account at the bank.    


Your API keys can be found by clicking on the "finances" link at your exchange.  You will need a new key for each instance of the bot, or any other bot, you wish to run.    Be sure to check both info and trade boxes and click save at your API generation link at your exchange before initializing your bot.


best of luck,


presence










The "RED DRAGON" bot:
***contact for access***












TERMS:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5397522








The Red Dragon works on a system of Moving Average Convergence and Divergence (MACD) though its manifested in code much like a simple ema cross and not "charted" as an MACD.  When one average dips 12.5% below the other, BUY.  When it rises 2% over the other SELL.   I tried a variety of EMA pairs through many iterations of backtest... these are the two that seem to work best.  I like to keep my code simple and my math well considered. Check my latest post here on the fundamentals of the RED DRAGON:


 http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5403208




Free tuned "CHERRYBITCH" gift:
***contact for access***



Cherrybitch is a slope bot.  It buys or sells based solely on change in slope.  It tuned for bullish markets as is.  During BEAR times it continually wants to be the "first on the ball" to ride something bullish... and continually gets burnt.   So you want to hold of on using it until we hit rock bottom.   




Thank you for your purchase!




I'm here for support,




litepresence


"crypto long!  more coinz short "






rpfpresence@gmail.com
presence, ronpaulforums.com
litepresence, btce trollbox 
oraclepresence, twitter
litepresence, cryptocat chat room: "cryptotrader" 










open source projects: 


https://cryptotrader.org/topics/2376...urbo-tune-v1-0 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/7732...slope-bot-v3-0
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/4944...oss-w-bid-size 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/2375...ns-master-v1-0 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/8353...5-harmonic-hft 
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/8200...ce-jounce-v1-0





These are the RISKS YOU TAKE trading with bots:


*Someone just lost 100 BTC on fees at BTCChina!*

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

GET YOUR FUNDS THE $#@! OUT OF MT GOX NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
litepresenceJUST RECIEVED EMAIL FROM VERY TRUSTED FRIEND W/ INSIDE INFO

----------


## presence

> Thanks for these links mate. I appreciate it. If you have anything at Gox, pls try get it out ASAP. not looking good mate.I think they're packing up shop. The owner hasn't been seen there for over a week now and I'm contacting a friend in Customs to see if his Maserati has been shipped out of there. I'll keep you posted.Cheers


..

----------


## presence



----------


## KCIndy

> GET YOUR FUNDS THE $#@! OUT OF MT GOX NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
> litepresenceJUST RECIEVED EMAIL FROM VERY TRUSTED FRIEND W/ INSIDE INFO



lol - I could never figure out an easy way to get funds INTO Mt. Gox.  By the time they finally started to make it easy, much better exchanges had opened for business.

----------


## presence

> Hi litepresence,
> 
> What percentage of your holding are you putting on this bot?
> Do you recommend running this with some offset, especially since you've already got $250k combined on this?
> How does this bot deal with placing and cancelling orders if they aren't taken?
> How would you rate this bot compared to your past/present bots?
> Do you have any other bots you are running that is doing well?
> 
> My experience is very limited and even tuning is a bit of a challenge for me since I'm not a market analyst and rarely get time to spend on this. I'd be happy to pay the 20% on profits, but I'll be careful with how much I give the bot to trade with.
> ...



RED DRAGON is an a 15m adaptation of 

https://cryptotrader.org/topics/4944...oss-w-bid-size 

tuned to "red dragon" phase of June 2013:

http://i41.tinypic.com/30sk2z6.png



I'm all in on RED DRAGON.  100% fiat with the bot running my decisions overnight.  I watch charts by day with the bot live.


The bot mostly does NOTHING, 

RUNNING THIS BOT YOU ARE MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE MARKET WILL FALL.  

It holds fiat holds fiat holds fiat holds fiat....

unless of course a BIG dip occurs... 


In which case it starts to spend 25% of your remaining balance on every 15 minutes until you're bought in; just like my open source 1m long wave.  


Everything is adjustable and intuitive:


Here is the User CP:

#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
# RED DRAGON - USER CONTROL PANEL
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
init: (context)->
    context.BUY = -0.125     # % below long to buy
    context.SELL = 0.02      # % above long to sell
    context.SELL_min = 1     # if less than this many BTC sell all
    context.BUYp = 0.25      # % of fiat to spend each tick
    context.SELLp = 0.25     # % of crypto to dump each tick
    context.BUYt = 870       # seconds of timeout on buy orders
    context.SELLt = 870      # seconds of timeout on sell orders
    context.EMAs = 5         # short EMA
    context.EMAl = 240       # long EMA
    context.bottom = 0.89    # depth of bottom for limit buy orders
#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


You could hedge losses by running multiple instances of the bot.  Lets say you wanted to run three instances:   

A)
    context.BUY = -0.125     # % below long to buy
    context.SELL = 0.02      # % above long to sell
B)
    context.BUY = -0.12     # % below long to buy
    context.SELL = 0.0175      # % above long to sell
C)
    context.BUY = -0.115     # % below long to buy
    context.SELL = 0.015      # % above long to sell


And reduce the 



    context.BUYp = 0.25      # % of fiat to spend each tick
    context.SELLp = 0.25     # % of crypto to dump each tick


of each to 

    context.BUYp = 0.0833      # % of fiat to spend each tick
    context.SELLp = 0.0833     # % of crypto to dump each tick



so each instance could only spend 1/3 of what the original bot could spend per tick.


Of course all of this is infinately tunable... but when dealing w/ a larger bank you want to take time to consider your actions and market impact wisely.   

Each bot could then be offset from each other;  A)1 minute B)6 minutes C)11 minutes  ; for example using CT.org's offset feature.

Now assuming you gave all three bots 100k usd total to spend no one bot would have the power to place a very big bid at all and you would be "sponging" the bottom quite effectively rather than placing a lump sum bid on the books.

The largest bid the bots would place at any one time given the "retune" mentioned above w/ 3 instances would be $8300 every 5 minutes.


I hope all of this makes sense.  I built this bot with the shortcomings of the 3X LTC bot in mind regarding its tendency to drown larger banks in its own wake.


The bot keeps all orders on the books for 870 seconds (14:30 of a 15m candle) before canceling and reordering.  It will never spend more than 0.25 of your remaining bank in one candle as factory tuned.  


I would rate this bot "well thought out" relative to my 3X LTC release... which really was just a "promo" to get people excited about bot trading at CT.org.  Most of my other work... and the work of most open source at CT.org has been focused on bots that work in ALL circumstances.  The critical flaw in this theory is that we are only given 250 tick of data to work with at CT.org and its difficult to code a bot which senses long movements, yet makes accurate trades in a short sense.   The "red dragon" phase of the bubble; June 2013 has consistently proven most difficult.   So, I designed this bot specifically for a "final bounce" scenario... which every other BTC bubble has taken:

http://i60.tinypic.com/35aqjq0.png
http://i59.tinypic.com/23kdav9.png


contact me if you have any problems.




best of luck,


presence

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ..


Pres, what effect do you think this will have on the price?

----------


## presence

GOX:




> litepresence: paulgr whats the word on mtgox? are coins safe there?
> 
> 
> 
> *magnusson: guys why the $#@! aren't my coins coming to my account from MTgox*
> 
> 
> 
> MakeitRain25: Ошибка: IP не совпадают
> ...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This is going to be interesting.  I'll be sleeping safe and sound in fiat through this whole fiasco with a nice profit overall.  

I think the market will ultimately come back from this, and I'll be waiting to catch it back on the upswing.  Based on the general panic I'm seeing, there doesn't seem to be any way to salvage Mt. Gox now.  Its reputation is shot, so now, so is the whole exchange.

----------


## presence

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...while-you-can!

re: gox

----------


## Dianne

Frankly, I could never understand why anyone had btc in GOX; unless they were just selling $100. higher than all other exchanges.   Maybe that was the way the DOJ could get the names, bank account information, etc. of all those dabbling in alt coins.     Why will BTC-e have btc for $800. and GOX same btc at $920.?    Of course, so your'll transfer your btc from BTC-e to GOX where you can make a $120. bonus in a matter of minutes.    GOX has always been "fishy" to me.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Frankly, I could never understand why anyone had btc in GOX; unless they were just selling $100. higher than all other exchanges.   Maybe that was the way the DOJ could get the names, bank account information, etc. of all those dabbling in alt coins.     Why will BTC-e have btc for $800. and GOX same btc at $920.?    Of course, so your'll transfer your btc from BTC-e to GOX where you can make a $120. bonus in a matter of minutes.    GOX has always been "fishy" to me.


It doesn't work like that.  Getting money into and out of Gox doesn't happen in minutes.  You have to take into account all of the price fluctuations, so it's not just like converting $800 into $920.  The process is a long one, so it would take quite a while to make any significant amount of money doing that.  It could be done, but it's really not practical.  That's not why the price is so high, regardless.

----------


## presence

> GET YOUR FUNDS THE $#@! OUT OF MT GOX NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
> litepresenceJUST RECIEVED EMAIL FROM VERY TRUSTED FRIEND W/ INSIDE INFO

----------


## nayjevin

What is the price 'supposed' to be today based on 0.6?

----------


## presence

..


> For each instance of the BOT do I need a separate account on BTCe or can they all pull fiat from one?
> 
> If Gox goes down and prices plummet drastically is the bot still tuned to take advantage of an even bigger drop than 500?
> 
> My fiat will actually probably be in the xxk region and although I don't want to be reckless but I'm certainly not conservative either  - so with that in mind would you recommend sticking to your original example of 3 bots:
> 
> A)
> context.BUY = -0.125 # % below long to buy
> context.SELL = 0.02 # % above long to sell
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

The 'stamp is tempting.  Not sure if I want to sleep in it though.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Getting the idea yet that come the dawn of 2015 there will be over 500 coins to choose from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqRKMKi7IQg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Yet another 40C+ week ahead, unbelievable.  Summer heat never runs this late down here.  1 March is the first day of Autumn for us and its looking right now to be a scorcher till then.  Been taking some time off and doing a bit of C++/C# coding.

This graphic might give an idea of how things play out from here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l95bks1ekk...%20Holiday.jpg

Anyway, enjoy Sochi and the 22nd Winter Olympics.  Once you wrap your mind around what that number means you will gain an idea for what is coming  ;-)




Watch here to see how they are leaking their witchcraft economics on numbers for this year 2014 and what is coming (Legarde Speech - 24 Jan 14 - skip forward to 9:35 in the Global Vampire and Psychopaths Show by BJF) - 7 Slow years, Looking forward to 7 Growth Years . . . LMAO, that is a joke!  But they love their Numerology, don't they!  ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVDs8EC-xs

Legarde a Synchronised Swimmer? . . . LMAO . . . That is Martina Navratilova . . . Wake UP!!!!  Just another New World Order Actor suitable for this moment to continue the Con-Game in which we find ourselves experiencing!  :-)

Just as Actor Will Ferrell is playing the role at the CFTC of "Black Bart Chilton" . . . but thats a whole other story.

Just one Big Bull$#@! Lie After Another!

. . . Just watch Sochi and what comes next for Bitcoin come late March 2014, for you may just be surprised!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Reddcoin . . . Or should that be ReddCon?

http://www.reddcoin.com/mine-reddcoin

Site looks good, a bit of effort gone into that, so what is the problem?

As indicated before, Reddcoin went live on 2 Feb 14.

Yep, on that day the wallet downloaded and Sync'ed in no time flat, basically zero pre-mine, except for the 5.6 Billion coins mined a day or two prior (as was advertised in their IPCO), so as to pay off IPO investors.

Been watching the Blockchain very closely since Tuesday:

http://cryptexplorer.com/chain/ReddCoin

. . . and as advertised if you are a miner you will discover 300,000 coins in a block for the first 9,999 blocks.  ATM we are up to mining block 6,200 or so.

Problem is, when you check into it, they are heavily mining certain blocks on their own at the same time (no access on these for Scrypt Miners) sometimes to the tune of Millions of coins.

Net effect?  Right now, best estimates are Reddcoin is now 15% pre-mined to the tune of 17 Billion coins (out of 109 Billion Planned).

As you check the blockchain at this moment, the vast majority of blocks (one every 60 seconds), are only showing 300,000 coins discovered and mined - this represents the mining public.

Since Tuesday, with the pool I am mining at, the number of workers has been falling from a peak of 395, down into the 200's and down to about 95, where we are at today.  Durrr, Miners figure this stuff out quickly these days and jump ship fast.

Already, Reddcoin is trading on a few obscure coin exchanges and basically the rate is 1 RDD = 0.0000001 BTC.  This is pretty much standard for most new coins (or 1E-07).  DOGE was the same, and so was the MOON.

In a few weeks time, when it goes public . . . no doubt RDD will have that same introductory price jump we have seen in so many new coins of late.

In a word, don't fall for it . . . . I will be watching to ditch my RDD for the best price I can get at that time.  This ain't no MOON, not a MEOW, most definitely not a DOGE!

This one's not quite the Con that 42Coin was, or similarly Quarkcoin, but its kinda similar.  They lied on the amount of pre-mine they would be doing, and shortly after this goes live on the bigger exchanges:?

This:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nnp90ujvxp...%20Decline.jpg

42 Coin . . . 7 Jan 14 . . . by 8 Feb 14 we will have a Market Cap never seen before in a new coin of $42,000,000.  BaHahahahaha, yeah right!

When it goes live, avoid RDD!  No matter just how the charts read "screaming buy" at the time.  Deal?  Deal!

You can't say you are going to pre-mine to 5.6% of the total coins and then go ahead and pre-mine 15% of them.

Say have you heard yet about that new coin called Premine? No $#@!, it exists!  Try to mine it and you can't  :-)

Along with UFOCoin, TittieCoin and all the rest, heaps of new coins coming in the next couple of weeks.

Be discerning, because some will rocket like Vertcoin did this week (VTC), but the majority will not.

----------


## presence

These charts are updated automatically every 12 minutes. They use data from this API call, which displays all Bitcoin withdrawal transactions from Mt.Gox that have not been confirmed for 2 or more hours.

68,000 BTC lost in cyberspace at gox


FULL ON CRYPTO BANK RUN 




> 





> These charts are updated automatically every 12 minutes. They use data from this API call, which displays all Bitcoin withdrawal transactions from Mt.Gox that have not been confirmed for 2 or more hours.






This is a LIVE output jpg, it should update.

----------


## XTreat

Pres I owe you again my friend, I got out of BTC and LTC @ 810 and 21.30 respectively.

----------


## Dianne

Just want to thank everyone for keeping us updated on what is going on in the crypto world !!!    I'm taking the advice and resting in fiat through the rest of the month.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/roya5yu9sj...10-Baggers.jpg

Being really patient till June is another option.

----------


## muh_roads

In with 20% fiat @ 712

----------


## presence

*SNAP!*
https://blockchain.info/charts/bitco...ale=0&address=

----------


## presence

> In with 20% fiat @ 712



Red Dragon Bot still in fiat



goes off edge of screen.... click view image:

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uh4pqtqqb...20Feb%2014.jpg

Check out what 42Coin has just done.  BTC value falling off a cliff, so whats the best thing to do?  Make the difficulty near zero again.  Not falling for it.

----------


## muh_roads

Would love to get 0.42 of that.  Or 0.042 more realistically.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> In with 20% fiat @ 712


out @ 732...don't wanna sleep in this.  glad i set the limit before walking away from the pc.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Would love to get 0.42 of that.  Or 0.042 more realistically.


Here's an even better idea.  Create your own coin called "IMPOSSIBILIUM" (IMP)

1 Coin, mined in 10,000 blocks or 10,000 parts.  Pre-mine the whole thing, of course with the difficulty set to "0" the whole time (should be very quick to do).

Then set about a long schpiel on a website about Impossibilium being the rarest thing ever (You gotta have some or all = for bragging rights) and available now for 1 BTC = 0.0001 IMP or the whole lot for 10,000 BTC.

Never know, some BTC early-adopter might just grab it, coin, code, wallet, website and all.  :-)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/msgws0rpk0...ossibilium.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

An even better coin index?

http://www.worldcoinindex.com/

Trending Tab, gotta luv the Trending Tab!  Tick!  Just wish in the Trending Tab they had a section for Tomorrow hey?  ;-)

108 Coins, its cracked a century, and still I can't find about 10 that I know exist and are being mined already.

----------


## presence

RED DRAGON RESULTS:

Bought 52% into Stamp 675-677
Bought 100% into Gox 710-759

Failed to buy into BTCe


I stayed up 24 hours.... traded manually @ BTCe:

Bought 697 
Sold 719
Bought 710




WILL ISSUE FREE FINE RETUNES to all Red Dragon holders shortly to adjust for the way the different markets are acting.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

For those in the trollbox that don't know extrapolation from intrapolation:

----------


## muh_roads

Some Un about to be sold.  Wow what an increase.

jesus cryptsy is slow

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> 


What % you going in @ 650?

----------


## KCIndy

I've been waiting and waiting...

and waiting...

for $650 before I buy in.  I'm beginning to wonder if we're ever going to hit it or not.  Seems like it keeps bouncing off a barrier somewhere around 680-690.

----------


## Suzu

Y'all should thank your lucky stars that I don't have any money to play with because if I did buy in, the price would immediately drop to about $200 and stay there for at least a year!

----------


## fahrenheit

Just droping by to say "thanks for the money" Litepresence, been following this thread from outside of US and I'm glad for all the insights from you guys here.

----------


## newbitech

> I've been waiting and waiting...
> 
> and waiting...
> 
> for $650 before I buy in.  I'm beginning to wonder if we're ever going to hit it or not.  Seems like it keeps bouncing off a barrier somewhere around 680-690.


fib lines


http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

set the chart to weekly.  grab the peak from 2011 stretch it to the peak of 2013.  there ya go.

EDIT,

better yet, grab the first peak break out from 1 dollar just before the peak in 2011.


EDIT, 

hell for that matter grab the april 2012 peak.  same story

----------


## Dianne

> Y'all should thank your lucky stars that I don't have any money to play with because if I did buy in, the price would immediately drop to about $200 and stay there for at least a year!


Same here Suzu ... I am a btc curse.

----------


## Dianne

> fib lines
> 
> 
> http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd
> 
> set the chart to weekly.  grab the peak from 2011 stretch it to the peak of 2013.  there ya go.
> 
> EDIT,
> 
> ...


So in layman's language .... when are you going to be comfortable to buy?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> So in layman's language .... when are you going to be comfortable to buy?


$495.38 or thereabouts, still a few weeks off.  First a continued move up through $700 to $725? as we are seeing on BTC-e right now and then a continuation down.

----------


## muh_roads

Suspect LTC & NMC follow the same trend down?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Suspect LTC & NMC follow the same trend down?


Most definitely.  I suspect all the Top 10 Alts will follow BTC down.  DOGE seems to be resisting at the moment, and perhaps given possible outcomes based around events of the next two weeks (as indicated in previous posts), it may continue with an uptrend.  Certainly over at Multipool.us 99.999% of the miners are still mining the DOGE (OK, thats an exageration, its actually 97.123%).  However, while BTC is going down I suspect the majority of the Altcoins will follow suit and even for the DOGE, unless there is a mass awakening, its rise from here through the end of Feb will be subdued.

Certainly there will be daily specials along the way like Unobtanium right now, but unless you know the coin well and the comings and goings, or are very lucky, its hard to know just when to play these.

Of course when the recovery begins from BTC's $500 low or $484 low or $525 low or whichever it is, LTC will follow suit.  And LTC will have its own quirky up moves from time to time as well in March, April, May as it likes to do.  Darned if I can figure out when and why those happen, still trying to understand it.

NMC on the other hand, while being the oldest Altcoin, if we look at the period from July 2013 until November 2013, it saw an extended downtrend.  Another observation about NMC from the past is that when BTC spiked, NMC typically always spiked first a few days beforehand, which is handy to observe because it could be an excellent play come mid-July 14 and then exit late July to BTC which should be spiking a few days later and then exit that as well and await the huge price drop ($8K -> $3.5K???).

The problem NMC has now is there are other Altcoins contending for a spot on the Top 10 List.  Firstly, Worldcoin (WDC) is all but gone now.  Quarkcoin (QRK) should be gone but the fact that its totally mined out keeps it there and until it hits $0.03 and/or lower it so shall remain. So the point being is NMC now finds competition from a number of different coins (DOGE for one, but watch Vertcoin and another little Gem I won't mention just yet) whereas it didn't have this competition in the past.  It (NMC) would have to hit a price of $1.00 to be relegated to 11th spot, and I very much doubt that will happen to NMC.  I am noticing that yet again someone is trying to stir NMC into action by doing a Pump and Dump on it, but when a coin gets into the Top 10 List its pretty much impossible now to achieve this, so I am not sure why people even try.  I'm now all out of NMC and so I'm just watching the comings and goings with amusement.  My expectations for NMC from here?  A continued down trend on into June and a high $2 number should not be out of the question by early June mixed along the way with some New Moon Price spikes where it will be a good play for some profit taking.  NMC? lets just say keep watching NMC as each and every New Moon approaches.  The next is on 1 March 2013 which will be super boring for all the Altcoins, NMC included, but on 30 March or 29 April, well it could be a different story altogether.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Resistance nearly achieved, and then the next leg down?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2m6o27sn5...20Feb%2014.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Been watching for weeks awaiting for this to happen:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ou6xmfm6uy...red%20Coin.jpg

PPC is the preferred Sha-256 Coin to mine.

Question:  Why would you ever dedicate funds to an ASIC mining setup, when you can potentially mine 1 BTC every couple of days with a Scrypt Coin Mining Setup??  It leaves me befuddled and confused as to all the dumb money chasing ASIC's.

Simply put:  Scrypt Mining Rulz!!!!!

Keep it simple people, because this was never meant to be difficult!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Oh Reddcoin, how I so wish to apologise at my recent surmise at your pending demise!

So much has happened in the last few days hasn't it!!!!

Facebook?  Network Effect?  Just watch and see to how to make it happen.  Its happening!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edcf4e9p62...Feb%202014.jpg

FB Likes . . . your new indicator to watch!

Hint:  The IPCO Part 2 hasn't ended yet.  Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge and a  ;-) and a ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

And why just is it she is delivering all she promised all of a sudden?

7 days in and totally dismantling a mining coin attack from Poland and an adjustment with the Kimoto Gravity Well Problem Solvered?????

Network Effect?  Oh Yeah Luv the Network Effect!

Visit Here!

http://rdd.cryptondice.com/?unique=7...i1cRPBsjKHgz5#

Do Not Share This URL so says my cut and paste ==  Why not?  Is it restricted or something?  Its just a game, and people love to gamble don't they!

Since Friday its drove the FB Likes for REDD from 700 too 3900 in case your weren't watching  ;-)

Noticing yet that all the other Top Ten Altcoins are Stagnently Dead otherwise?

News you might just like to know hey?  :-)

Network Effect Eh?  You gotta Luv Network Effect.  Bahdahbing, Bahdahboom!!!!

So what else does Reddcoin of San Fran have up their sleeves from here going forward?  ;-)

Well lets just watch and see  :-)

Mine the Crap out it and Find Out is all I can say :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> And why just is it she is delivering all she promised all of a sudden?
> 
> 7 days in and totally dismantling a mining coin attack from Poland and an adjustment with the Kimoto Gravity Well Problem Solvered?????
> 
> Network Effect?  Oh Yeah Luv the Network Effect!
> 
> Visit Here!
> 
> http://rdd.cryptondice.com/?unique=7...i1cRPBsjKHgz5#
> ...


8.7 Million mined so far.  With any luck it won't go live till I have 20 Million REDD mined  :-)

Watching and Waiting, as usual, for it to go live and then to price spike and then will dump, only to await to buy back in at the bottom.  Easy Peasy hey?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> 8.7 Million mined so far.  With any luck it won't go live till I have 20 Million REDD mined  :-)
> 
> Watching and Waiting, as usual, for it to go live and then to price spike and then will dump, only to await to buy back in at the bottom.  Easy Peasy hey?



In other words, wish to make a Bitcoin every 2nd day . . . why mess with CoffeeScrypt and all that when you don't need to  ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkhZ4h9DrTo

AKA $#@! the Banksters, and now lets sit back and watch them suicide themselves into oblivion . . . remember the next news headline will come from Citigroup.

Let these AssFucks BURN IN HELL!!!!!!!!   And just enjoy at their demise!!!!!!!!!!!  $#@! 'EM TO HELL AND BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Because as Satanists that is truly where they belong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !

----------


## newbitech

> So in layman's language .... when are you going to be comfortable to buy?


I don't plan on getting anywhere near BTC until it becomes a civilized option.  But if I was trading these charts swing, I'd have been in at the fib low.  625-650 with a target at the next fib line, 750-ish.  

As a longer term player, meaning anyone not swing trading (weekly/monthly) or day trading, I wouldn't be looking to get back in until we touched the 23.6 retrace from peak to peak.  So around 500.  But only very very timidly so.   I honestly would look more at the dollar to Peak Fib sequence.  Next real long term buy in somewhere around the old peak level which really really needs to be retested.  

And from a weekly stand point, if you are looking at the actual weekly closes,  it's probably best to wait (for long term)  till the price level sanitizes itself and touches that 160 peak weekly close.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I've Exposed Your Bankster Lies, Yeah Baby, and Underneaths No Big Surprise and now It's Time for CHANGING and cleansing EVERYTHING!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99I7gpswhQ4W

WAKE THE $#@! UP TO WHAT IS COMING!!!!!!!!!!

You've Been Warned . . . No Excuses!

----------


## btcltc

> Most definitely.  I suspect all the Top 10 Alts will follow BTC down.  DOGE seems to be resisting at the moment, and perhaps given possible outcomes based around events of the next two weeks (as indicated in previous posts), it may continue with an uptrend.  Certainly over at Multipool.us 99.999% of the miners are still mining the DOGE (OK, thats an exageration, its actually 97.123%).  However, while BTC is going down I suspect the majority of the Altcoins will follow suit and even for the DOGE, unless there is a mass awakening, its rise from here through the end of Feb will be subdued.
> 
> Certainly there will be daily specials along the way like Unobtanium right now, but unless you know the coin well and the comings and goings, or are very lucky, its hard to know just when to play these.
> 
> Of course when the recovery begins from BTC's $500 low or $484 low or $525 low or whichever it is, LTC will follow suit.  And LTC will have its own quirky up moves from time to time as well in March, April, May as it likes to do.  Darned if I can figure out when and why those happen, still trying to understand it.
> 
> NMC on the other hand, while being the oldest Altcoin, if we look at the period from July 2013 until November 2013, it saw an extended downtrend.  Another observation about NMC from the past is that when BTC spiked, NMC typically always spiked first a few days beforehand, which is handy to observe because it could be an excellent play come mid-July 14 and then exit late July to BTC which should be spiking a few days later and then exit that as well and await the huge price drop ($8K -> $3.5K???).
> 
> The problem NMC has now is there are other Altcoins contending for a spot on the Top 10 List.  Firstly, Worldcoin (WDC) is all but gone now.  Quarkcoin (QRK) should be gone but the fact that its totally mined out keeps it there and until it hits $0.03 and/or lower it so shall remain. So the point being is NMC now finds competition from a number of different coins (DOGE for one, but watch Vertcoin and another little Gem I won't mention just yet) whereas it didn't have this competition in the past.  It (NMC) would have to hit a price of $1.00 to be relegated to 11th spot, and I very much doubt that will happen to NMC.  I am noticing that yet again someone is trying to stir NMC into action by doing a Pump and Dump on it, but when a coin gets into the Top 10 List its pretty much impossible now to achieve this, so I am not sure why people even try.  I'm now all out of NMC and so I'm just watching the comings and goings with amusement.  My expectations for NMC from here?  A continued down trend on into June and a high $2 number should not be out of the question by early June mixed along the way with some New Moon Price spikes where it will be a good play for some profit taking.  NMC? lets just say keep watching NMC as each and every New Moon approaches.  The next is on 1 March 2013 which will be super boring for all the Altcoins, NMC included, but on 30 March or 29 April, well it could be a different story altogether.


But what if, come monday, mtgox announces they have adjusted their problems and to boot will add LTC in the coming week?
I really hope not NMC would go down to 2 dollar. Jesus christ.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> But what if, come monday, mtgox announces they have adjusted their problems and to boot will add LTC in the coming week?
> I really hope not NMC would go down to 2 dollar. Jesus christ.


If they really are insolvent, then there's no chance of that happening.  Otherwise, I find it unlikely that they're going to figure anything out.  They've already let it go this far down and they can't seem to do anything about it.

----------


## muh_roads

Vertcoin looks like it is starting to go ape$#@! upward.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...allet.megacoin

With continuing innovations like this Megacoin should remain in the Top 10.  The other coins need to be doing the same to remain there.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Check this link at 99designs for the new Reddcoin logo design competition:

https://99designs.com.au/logo-design...signers/978514

Have a scroll through all the designers submitting entries, heaps of them.

Designers love to design stuff in the hopes that their logo will be picked as the winner.  Each logo is probably 10 mins in Illustrator for an experienced designer.

A logo design contest for a new coin to help spread the word about it . . . Clever!

10 Million RDD now mined, hoping to get to 20 Million by the time RDD hits the charts and begins racing up in ranking.

My favourite so far:

https://99designs.com.au/logo-design...87/entries/115

Watch Reddcoin, this person or group of people know the web, how to program for the web, how to leverage the web where skills are lacking (Logo Design contest now and Mac Wallet earlier - put a 0.2 BTC bounty on that and within a day an Objective C programmer had the Mac Wallet ready from the Windows Source), how to develop and quickly implement an internet business plan where coins are actually used and not just invested in and hoarded.

----------


## BucksforPaul

> Been watching for weeks awaiting for this to happen:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ou6xmfm6uy...red%20Coin.jpg
> 
> PPC is the preferred Sha-256 Coin to mine.
> 
> Question:  Why would you ever dedicate funds to an ASIC mining setup, when you can potentially mine 1 BTC every couple of days with a Scrypt Coin Mining Setup??  It leaves me befuddled and confused as to all the dumb money chasing ASIC's.
> 
> Simply put:  Scrypt Mining Rulz!!!!!
> ...


I apologize if you have already explained this, but can you tell us about your rig(s)?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

OK have given it a bit of a bash and here's my entry:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/79z7wf14fo...ogo-Design.jpg

Maybe the Devs will send a Reddcoin or two my way, and if not oh well having a burl at designing $#@! is therapeutic.  Beats sticking another Bitcoin Pin in my New World Order Voodoo Doll  ;-)

10.4 Million RDD

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Reddcoin is now listed at:

http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html

Only problem is it has the wrong coin logo  ;-)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7olzymky9i...sted%20Now.jpg

Wow that was fast, I didn't expect it to make the charts until 20 February.  8 days ago it didn't even exist and now its soon to be racing up the charts to be another contender.

At the time of the screen capture, 67th spot on the Crypto list.

However, only showing 7,788,510,000 coins in existance which is in error.

When the correct number is reported it should look something like this:

1 BTC = $700
1 Satoshi = 0.00000001
1 RDD = 0.00000004 or 4 Satoshi's (probably will be higher by then)
Right now working on Block 11079
Blocks 1-9999 yielded 300,000 coins each
Each Block now yielding 200,000 coins only
Difficulty is a moderate 13.75 which conflicts with the value reported at:

http://cointweak.com/calculator (still testing the validity of this calculator page, although the difficulty will vary between blocks)

Total Coins to be Mined = 109,000,000,000
Total Coins Mined so far = 23,477,968,804
Percentage of Coins Mined = 21.54%
Correct Market Cap then at this price for both BTC and RDD = $657,383
Which qualifies RDD for an opening position of 39th spot ahead of Sexcoin.
Max Miners at the Pool I am working at = 350 back when it was released on 2 Feb.
Lowest number of miners = 49
Current Miners = 129, so their coming back again since Sunday

So when it moves up some 30 spots, check the price and coins mined, its probably just a proper reporting of the total coins available.

From here a move like Mooncoin had in its first 5 days on the chart pricewise should take it to 13th spot.  In these next 5 days will probably add another 7 Billion coins mined into existance or 30,000,000,000.  This one is mining fast, they want the coins out there in circulation and being used.

Also keep an eye on the IPCO in these next 6 days.  The Live BTC pledges, if they are going to take off, will happen now that its public awareness just shot up:

http://www.reddcoin.com/ipo-result/

In the last 4 hours, 2 BTC added to bring a total of 80.6 BTC invested, which of course is reducing the total number of RDD's each investor will get according to their payout formula (also cleverly done).  Should be interesting to see if that suddenly shoots up.  This will also tell you if this is a coin to invest in or not, and whether to keep it or dump it when it has its opening week spike.

IPCO (Initial Public Coin Offering) coin payout is 1.11% of the coins each day to each investor for 90 days so as to ensure investors don't adversely affect the RDD price by selling them all at once, which is another good idea.

These guys have thought this through quite well and I became most impressed on Saturday when they fixed the Kimoto Gravity Well problem being caused by the mining pool rdd.coinmine.pl (basicly attacking RDD, gaining 51% of the mining capability and driving other miners away based on the very few coins they were receiving), then issued a new Wallet on Saturday and all of a sudden my mining shot from 650,000 coins a day to 2.4 Million coins a day.  Was quite happy to see that, because it showed that they were on top of things.  Currently its dropped to 1.8 Million coins a day and should continue gradually dropping as the difficulty increases and as more miners come on board.

The thing to watch as well is what new innovation do they have up their sleeves to introduce next.  I think in time an Android Wallet App is a given, hopefully an iPhone one as well.  Given the Megacoin source code is available on Github, that shouldn't be difficult to do.  Also other Social Media Networking plans they plan to introduce.

The only problem is people might go off and buy "Redcoin" when they really meant to buy "Reddcoin", but I am sure that will sort itself out in time.

Anyway lets see how far up the list Reddcoin can make it in its first week, and will it stay there?

Free Reddcoins can be had here at one faucet I have found.

http://redd.cravegig.com/

There are probably others either existing or planned.

----------


## lotsOfCake

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

Must read ASAP.

It was my thinking that this was addressed by waiting for multiple confirmations.

If it is a real issue (of the protocol not just of the mtgox implementation of withdrawals) then the real question is, which coin will fix it first :-D :-D Taking bets !

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html
> 
> Must read ASAP.
> 
> It was my thinking that this was addressed by waiting for multiple confirmations.
> 
> If it is a real issue (of the protocol not just of the mtgox implementation of withdrawals) then the real question is, which coin will fix it first :-D :-D Taking bets !


Its certainly had an impact on the market ($500 just touched) and while its not dated I presume it was issued not only today but just a couple of hours ago?

Like you I assumed the multiple confirmations (in many cases over 100 and sometimes 300 confirmations), was by design and an assurance that both sender and receiver and the whole of the blockchain knew that the payment was complete and legitimate and was properly recorded.

Two possibilities:

A.  This is a legitimate issue with the Bitcoin Wallet design (and all other Altcoin Wallet designs), for which we can expect some pretty devastating repercussions; or

B.  This is a "look over there and not here" defensive position on the part of Mt. Gox.

Given they've obviously been receiving complaints for a long while but most particularly this last week, and have awaited this long to give this press release my gut feel is we go with Option B until proven otherwise.

5 years is a long time for some pretty smart cookies to not only figure out this design flaw, but actually implement a way to crack and exploit it.  Why then are we only hearing about this now and why from Mt. Gox and not from some independent research group with technical expertise in applied cryptography and who are offering a solution to fix it?  Hmmmmm?

If "B" is the correct option, some people just got a steal @ $500

If "A" turns out to be correct, then $500 is about 100,000% more than its worth.

. . . and how coincidental is it that this comes out now amidst all the bankster suicide turmoil, Gold vaults everywhere virtually empty, Gold and Silver prices about to go ape$#@! ballistic, the stock markets not only correcting but about to go through a serious crash . . . hmmmm, could it be some 3 letter agency or other doesn't want the Sheeple to see the Cryptos as an escape route?  Never forget this as a motive, because these people are that devious, that sinister and that corrupt!

----------


## lotsOfCake

It seems possible that it is a Mtgox only issue. Yes it is a weakness in the coin but it doesn't have to matter.

----------


## lotsOfCake

I was literally watching as I missed a buy opportunity at $102. So sad.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5mtexdb32lowfn/BTC%20102.jpg

Lordy do that again, I want some at those prices!

10 Feb 2014, forever more to be known as the day of the Mt. Gox induced Flash Crash.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I was literally watching as I missed a buy opportunity at $102. So sad.


We need a Mt. Gox Fibber Trading Bot hey?

----------


## Dianne

> I was literally watching as I missed a buy opportunity at $102. So sad.


How did you find a buying opportunity at 102?    That's a dream come true.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://blocks.wizb.it/

Turn on Auto Rotate and Auto Zoom and watch the Bitcoin world go round.

From Dahboo77's vid indicating the Mt. Gox Flash Crash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkvTp7EpAI

A tempest in a teacup to be honest, we will all wake up tomorrow and go Damn I missed $102 

Addendum:

But I am anxious to learn if the Pres' Red Dragon Trading Bot caught it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Reddcoin is now listed at:
> 
> http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html
> 
> Only problem is it has the wrong coin logo  ;-)
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7olzymky9i...sted%20Now.jpg
> 
> Wow that was fast, I didn't expect it to make the charts until 20 February.  8 days ago it didn't even exist and now its soon to be racing up the charts to be another contender.
> ...


How do you buy Reddcoin?  Do any exchanges carry it?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> How did you find a buying opportunity at 102?    That's a dream come true.


From what he said, he didn't find it.  He missed it; and he was watching.  It was that fast.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Does this mess up the potential $500 bottom?  I was under the impression that it wasn't supposed to happen yet, but then Mt. Gox kind of threw a wrench in the works.  Is it up from here or are we still looking for a bottom somewhere?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I apologize if you have already explained this, but can you tell us about your rig(s)?


If you check Page 15 on here and post #426 you will find a description of the Rigs.  Any other questions from there and would be happy to answer these for you.

One thing I neglected to discuss was selecting a PSU (Power Supply Unit).  This is where with 4 graphics cards in a machine and living in a Carbon Tax Country you don't want to scrimp and save.  When I spec'ed out the machine I allowed 250 Watts for each GPU (Graphics Card) and then 250 Watts for the Motherboard.  This totals 1,250 Watts as a minimum PSU.  I then approached my computer parts vendor and asked if a 1300 Watt PSU would be suitable for this setup.  He suggested no it wouldn't.  Then I researched further and became convinced it should work so I purchased this Antec PSU for my first Rig:

http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=706575&fid=5022037

PSU's are rated Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum and you want to pick up a Platinum rated PSU.  Antec is a reputable manufacturer and there are probably others, but from my experience I would recommend Antec.

This PSU is not cheap @ AU$399 but it should help keep the power bills down a bit, so the extra $50 cost up front is worth it.

As for whether it is suitably sized for Four Sapphire R9 290's, its not only worked flawlessly now for 2 months, but its even run just fine through a number of days of 45 Degree Celcius heat (113 F).

For 2 cards and a Motherboard, the 850 Watt PSU's should be fine, and this is why the 850 is pretty commonly found in many computers.

As it begins to cool again down to daytime highs of 20-25 C, then through a software product known as MSI Afterburner (Google search it, its Free but comes with a monthly nag notice to download and install the latest upgrade) it will be possible to turn down the individual GPU fan speeds to 30-40% which should be more economical and allow for a much quieter operating conditions.  MSI Afterburner is also the software product where you get to monitor individual GPU temperatures.  Prolonged running at 90-95 C seems to be inconsequential to these Sapphire Graphic Cards and I suppose this is how they are designed to run.  Again Sapphire is highly recommended and they probably have even better cards out now, or are planning to release newer ones soon.  Finding stock may be a problem from time to time, but if you keep searching you will find them.  Received an email from my parts supplier today indicating that they had a special going on R9 290's @ $529 each which is $30 more than I paid in December, so I am concluding that demand is brisk still and availability is good at the moment in Melbourne.  Getting itchy to build the next machine because its a fun distraction away from staring at charts all day.

As for the mining software I use CGMiner 3.7.2 because its recommended to be the version that works the best with the Sapphire R9 290's.  CGMiner 3.9 exists and perhaps even a newer version now (haven't checked lately).

As for initiating the mining session, its simply a single .bat file with commands to run all 4 graphics cards and off it goes displaying results in a single CMD window.  I have dedicated .bat files for various coins at various mining pools so its easy during the day to switch a rig from DOGE to MOON to TIPS to REDD etc. depending on how profitability looks.  This is how a typical .bat file looks - just 3 lines (for DOGE on Multipool.us):

*setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1

cgminer --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://pool1.us.multipool.us:3552 -u workername -p password --gpu-platform -d 0 -d 1 -d 2 -d 3 -w 256,256,256,256 -v 1 -I 20 -g 1 -g 1 -g 1 -g 1 -T --thread-concurrency 32768,32768,32768,32768
*
They say to find an optimal thread concurrency for a given graphics card, what you do is set it to 2048 and then multiples of 2048 until the card crashes causing a BSD (Blue Screen of Death) in Windoze.  I tried this with mine and after getting into the 40,000 range it still wouldn't cause a crash, so in the end I decided to stick with 32768 (16 x 2048).  Perhaps I should fiddle with it again and see if I can bump up my hashing rate.  Every GPU is different and every machine setup is different, so it requires fine tuning and playing with it a bit until you are happy you are getting the best hashing rate you can.

Again, hope some of the above helps if you decide to get into Scrypt mining.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Duplicate post, so deleting this one to save on screen scroll.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> How do you buy Reddcoin?  Do any exchanges carry it?


Its on a couple of lesser known exchanges at the moment:

https://www.coinmarket.io/market/RDDBTC (4 Satoshi)

and

https://coin-swap.net/market/RDD/ (when you work it out its much dearer here at Coin Swap)

The other way is to watch the IPCO at Reddcoin, ending in 5 days time.  If you participate, and depending on where RDD is trading at up till the last moment, and depending on how many people jump in and dilute the offering, you may just pick them up at less than a Satoshi a piece.  Remember however, you must give a RDD wallet address and be prepared to receive your coins at a rate of 1.11% of the total a day for the next 90-Days, so in this case you have to have belief that in 90-Days time RDD will be going strong.  I think it will be because I like how pro-active the Dev's have been in handling early problems and how they discuss everything on Reddit, but you will have to do the research and make that decision.

Also I suspect Cryptsy will be listing it shortly.  Cryptsy has kinda gotten out of announcing new Altcoins at its start page, because so many new ones are turning up almost daily now.  Just need to keep checking the balances list on Cryptsy to see when its available.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Does this mess up the potential $500 bottom?  I was under the impression that it wasn't supposed to happen yet, but then Mt. Gox kind of threw a wrench in the works.  Is it up from here or are we still looking for a bottom somewhere?


I think whatever happens, the cycle from here to say 3 March will remain and BTC will be in final consolidation from December's $1240.

From here probably will stick around $670-$680 till the market figures out what's just happened and whether this concern Mt. Gox has raised is real or not, and maybe just maybe if we are lucky the final bottom will be $450 with enough time for everyone who wishes to buy to buy through their various purchasing options.

Now if what just happened is motivated by some ill-intentions towards Bitcoin from certain parties representing the Red Shield Central Banking Syndicate, then who knows, we could well see the mother of all crashes and a tasty prolonged $102 buying opp again.  The Bitcoin story just gets curiouser and curiouser all the time doesn't it.  You just know TPTB hate this thing called Bitcoin, and that's why I'm Lovin' It!

----------


## Suzu

> You just know TPTB hate this thing called Bitcoin


You sure about that, mate?
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...jan-horse.html

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think whatever happens, the cycle from here to say 3 March will remain and BTC will be in final consolidation from December's $1240.
> 
> From here probably will stick around $670-$680 till the market figures out what's just happened and whether this concern Mt. Gox has raised is real or not, and maybe just maybe if we are lucky the final bottom will be $450 with enough time for everyone who wishes to buy to buy through their various purchasing options.
> 
> Now if what just happened is motivated by some ill-intentions towards Bitcoin from certain parties representing the Red Shield Central Banking Syndicate, then who knows, we could well see the mother of all crashes and a tasty prolonged $102 buying opp again.  The Bitcoin story just gets curiouser and curiouser all the time doesn't it.  You just know TPTB hate this thing called Bitcoin, and that's why I'm Lovin' It!


I have a feeling that, if the Rothschild Banking Cartel were to crash BTC, they would crash it for good.  No more "buying opportunities".  That time may come, but hopefully not for a long time.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Coming soon, and that's arthritis or RSI (Repetitive Stress Injury) to the index finger of that hand working the mouse at charts like:

http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html

There's gotta be a better way.  Trending at WorldCoinIndex helps:

http://www.worldcoinindex.com/Trending

but the trending list is too short.

They need to pack more info on a single screen.  Just imagine when we are scrolling through 500 coins in the list and every monkey and his uncle has a new coin out.  Wow, that's going to be fun times

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I have a feeling that, if the Rothschild Banking Cartel were to crash BTC, they would crash it for good.  No more "buying opportunities".  That time may come, but hopefully not for a long time.


Well this is what their CISPA wildcard is designed to do isn't it, and if/when they pull it out of their Illuminati Card Deck you just know that Bitcoin and the Crypto sites will be labelled high up on the terrorist watch list or whatever they choose to call it then. That's why a healthy stash of hidden away individually encased 1 Oz "Real" Argentums was (from time immemorial - at least 6,000 years), is and always will be the best plan in your hand Stan solution to these Bastards and their schemes! Just hoping August comes and goes without a major global kerfuffle so I can ditch the Rigs and BTC and grow the Argentum stash.  The latest Web Bot report (20 January) tells us not to be so optimistic that we will make it as far as August. Amongst other things, an end March Fuku Radiation Burp that will place most on west coast of North America in peril, beginning the mass migration (firstly the exodus from Japan, but also on the home front). So we shall see. Besides Sochi is not over yet and with closing ceremonies on 23 Feb 14, will need to keep an eye on that.

Just like this guy . . . falls from 22nd storey to his death on a balcony on the 4th floor. Hmmmmm, thats an 11:11 if I ever saw one:

http://pesn.com/2014/02/03/9602434_T...d_wife-framed/

Suicided, yeah right!

and just like this guy in New Jersey who had the strength after shooting himself 7 times with a nail gun to be able to cock it and aim an 8th time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Pi6...&feature=share

Amerishima gives the correct view in my opinion, and we can expect more and more of these people who suddenly develop a concience, to also suddenly find themselves suicided.

They love their numbers, so just keep watching for the clues . . .

Addendum:

Hmmmm . . . odd coinkydink that 14 nations would be participating in a 9.0 Quake/Tsunami drill from 17 Feb - 7 March eh?

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...o-2893212.html

What is it they know about their HAARP machine thingy mabob that we don't?

Helen Caldicott explains yet again just why the moment it happens, she's on a plane out of Boston and headed back to Oz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_CiEnJ4Wo

Last Addendum:

Its a Hell of a world we live in, and I do stress the word HELL.  Why did the flash crash happen today?  I'm guessing someone out there is enamoured with this number and couldn't resist seeing it displayed in a prolonged red just a little bit longer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6tzjnj5z9pbl6qs/BTC%20666.jpg

OK couldn't resist one more, Cyber Attack Banking drill this coming weekend 15-16 Feb 14 (yeah we know who the real terrorists are don't we.  No?  Just ask the folks in Cyprus) and then there is 4 March 2014.  Lots of dates to bookmark for your Crypto trading plans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZpq...feature=gp-n-y

AKA - Get the Hell out of Fiat while it still has some value.

----------


## BucksforPaul

> If you check Page 15 on here and post #426 you will find a description of the Rigs.  Any other questions from there and would be happy to answer these for you...


Thank you so much for such a detailed response. +rep

----------


## amonasro

> You sure about that, mate?
> http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...jan-horse.html


Bitcoin is ruffling some feathers. Some will resist, some will see opportunity. There was this little thing called "internet" back in 1994...

One thing to keep in mind is that whoever plays with Bitcoin must play by its rules. They are welcome to create any service built upon it, or even to create their own version of Bitcoin. However they'll need to spend a fortune to get people to use and trust it.

People use Bitcoin because it's freedom from the existing banking system, plain and simple. It's popular because freedom is popular. People choose to use it.

----------


## btcltc

After china crash happened where bitcoin went as lows as 400 i think, it recovered back to nearly 1000 in a month.
Will we see the same pattern granted no other bad news come out of mtgox?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Anyone else playing the DOGE right now?  If so will it make it through its old high of 238 Satoshi's?  Or will it back down from there for a while?  ATM it is looking like it will have the strength to go straight through it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Have a listen to BJF's video on the flash crash yesterday, Mt. Gox, and what the Bitcoin Developers have to say about Mt. Gox's assertions about security of the Bitcoin-qt wallet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3eOFAw3goY

Basically ignore Gox from now on, because everyone else is.

----------


## nayjevin

> People use Bitcoin because it's freedom from the existing banking system, plain and simple. It's popular because freedom is popular. People choose to use it.


There are also those who use it strictly for freedom from 3-5 business day waits and 1.95+ service fees, and pure speculators waiting for a chance to trade back to 'money'.  Ultimately I doubt freedom is much more popular than what we see at the polls (getting better all the time though)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Anyone else playing the DOGE right now?  If so will it make it through its old high of 238 Satoshi's?  Or will it back down from there for a while?  ATM it is looking like it will have the strength to go straight through it.


Sure is looking like it, now at 231.  With no resistance after 238 wonder where it will stop from there?

Remembering that with the current number of mined DOGE, 301 could see market resistance, because this is the price where DOGE takes over 3rd spot on the mined coin list ahead of PPC.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I guess what we're seeing with Mt. Gox is the wheat separating from the chaff.  Mt. Gox was the first, but that doesn't mean they're the best.  The market is constantly improving, and that is the risk we take with such a new invention.  Mt. Gox is all but dead, and BTC will be better when it's gone because now the exchanges have improved in quality and security, and we will no longer have to deal with the risk of a bunch of amateurs trying to start a haphazard exchange.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Sure is looking like it, now at 231.  With no resistance after 238 wonder where it will stop from there?
> 
> Remembering that with the current number of mined DOGE, 301 could see market resistance, because this is the price where DOGE takes over 3rd spot on the mined coin list ahead of PPC.
> 
> Should be interesting to see how this plays out.


DOGE on fire . . . 238, 239 . . . 244, 245, 246.  Remember today is the 12th, well at least it is here now, and the day the DOGE block reward halves.  Over at Multipool.us, all day TIPS has been the most profitable coin to mine, but still everyone is mining the DOGE.

Will this be a one day effect?  or a continuing thing?

Also fast approaching 50% of the total coins mined.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm in the process of transferring the .25 BTC I have at the moment to put into Doge.  I'm hoping it's a continuing thing because otherwise it may not be worth it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> DOGE on fire . . . 238, 239 . . . 244, 245, 246.  Remember today is the 12th, well at least it is here now, and the day the DOGE block reward halves.  Over at Multipool.us, all day TIPS has been the most profitable coin to mine, but still everyone is mining the DOGE.
> 
> Will this be a one day effect?  or a continuing thing?
> 
> Also fast approaching 50% of the total coins mined.


Does that mean the day the block reward halves is the 11th in the US, or is it still the 12th and we have to wait a day?  I honestly don't know.

----------


## muh_roads

> OK have given it a bit of a bash and here's my entry:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/79z7wf14fo...ogo-Design.jpg
> 
> Maybe the Devs will send a Reddcoin or two my way, and if not oh well having a burl at designing $#@! is therapeutic.  Beats sticking another Bitcoin Pin in my New World Order Voodoo Doll  ;-)
> 
> 10.4 Million RDD


Does Redd stand for reddit?

I think the most polished logo I've seen is earthcoin.  That is what I would use as a starting reference if I was making a logo.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Does Redd stand for reddit?
> 
> I think the most polished logo I've seen is earthcoin.  That is what I would use as a starting reference if I was making a logo.


Yes I think there is a Reddit association, but its not clearly stated at their web page.  Some pretty good looking logos at 99Designs.  I think they have it down to 8 contenders now, so we'll have to see which one they pick.

The main idea about RDD is to become the Tipping Coin of Social Media.  Its a pretty good concept for actually getting people to spend coins.

Having fun on their Altcoin joke page at the moment:

http://coinjokes.cravegig.com/

Mine is top of the list on the "Still Alive" part of the page . . . yippee, 10 RDD's for the effort  :-)

Trying to think of some more.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Does that mean the day the block reward halves is the 11th in the US, or is it still the 12th and we have to wait a day?  I honestly don't know.


I think the day fluctuates depending on mining activity, so it can't be precise.  It could be that its the 11th and we have already passed it.  Haven't checked the DOGE Blockchain of late, but the fact that TIPS is showing up as the new preferred coin to mine at the Multipools tells me its happened.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I'm in the process of transferring the .25 BTC I have at the moment to put into Doge.  I'm hoping it's a continuing thing because otherwise it may not be worth it.


My honest opinion?  DOGE is a buy and hold anyway so .25 BTC is not going to go astray if you take a longer term view like say now till June.  Too many people mining the thing, to the detriment of many other coins.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> My honest opinion?  DOGE is a buy and hold anyway so .25 BTC is not going to go astray if you take a longer term view like say now till June.  Too many people mining the thing, to the detriment of many other coins.


I tend to agree.  Once the consolidation phase is over, I think some altcoins will perform quite well.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> I tend to agree.  Once the consolidation phase is over, I think some altcoins will perform quite well.


Same here. I'm looking for an entry point to a lot of things right now. Just wondering what this "bubble + red dragons" is going to transition into. I'm seeing a bit of impatience and buy sentiment,  but also distrust. I. E. It might rise seemingly steady, then drop quickly. So I'm trying to keep patient and find a good entry point for some %

----------


## lotsOfCake

Wondering how many people are using stop orders... 
My best guess is some more fluctuation on news, then a boring market for some time (I. E. altcoin time)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I tend to agree.  Once the consolidation phase is over, I think some altcoins will perform quite well.


Thats why I am trying to come up with a Top 10 List, and they don't have to be coins currently in the top ten.  Ideally looking for something that will go viral like DOGE ahead of all the rest.  Watching who's mining what helps.  VTC is looking good and I think RDD has a chance (even though the price isn't showing it yet), they just need to keep chipping away at new ideas and implementing new features and ways to spend/share RDD on the web.

Still with RDD the total mined coins is not properly showing at the Cryptocurrency summary pages.  My last count of the Blockchain shows 24,545,679,625 or 22.52% and that was 12 hours ago.  Currently its only showing 8+ Billion or so.  Remember this is meant to be a tipping coin on social media, and not something that will ever have a number in front of the decimal point in terms of USD.

Still watching the IPCO result.  Now up to 85 BTC pledged which leaves room to pick up a bunch of RDD cheap in 4 days time.  Certainly at this stage cheaper than mining them, but you don't get your hands on all of them until 90 days has passed.

Will have to see which Coin design they choose and what their new slogan is.  Instead of "The Coin of the Internet" it should be something like "The Social Media Tipping Coin".  Should that go viral, then who knows, through time we could see a 4 Satoshi move to 200 like the DOGE.  Then again we may see a 4 Satoshi move to 6  :-)  Its all a gamble.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I'd be watching Fedora coin right now (TIPS).  We saw it jump considerably from 23-26 January and since then it has had a grinding downwards movement, back to 31st place and a Market Cap of just over $1 Million.  The reason I say this is last night and all day today its been the preferred or most profitable coin to mine at Multipool.us.  What I am seeing today is that miners are actually mining TIPS right now at 7626 MHash/Sec versus the DOGE at 17,952 MHash/Sec, so a few have come off the DOGE given the new reduced coin discovery rate for DOGE.  In the past whenever a coin has been the most profitable for a considerable number of mining days, it has typically seen a move within 2-3 weeks.

So the idea now is to watch TIPS and hope it drops even further in price and try to pick a bottom which could be brought on by a further sudden down move in BTC.  We know particularly in the next 3 weeks this should happen.  Then hang onto it a while and watch the mining statistics for it at Multipool.us and check that its continuing to be the preferred coin to mine or at least in the top 5 list there.  Typically then it will have its up move within 2-3 weeks.  Happened so far for me with small quantities of ARG, EAC, LOT, DGC and WDC.  This is not a major play, but could be good for a nice % gain on a portion of a BTC.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/tech...1226822947633#

Lets see, 5 cents makes a Quarter of a Million, $1 makes 5 Million.  I think its time I look into picking up another few million of these things before the price gets out of hand  ;-)

Now you can see why miners have been mining it non-stop since the 3rd week of January.  As an example of the reduced discovery rate for coins, right now I can get max 60,000 coins a day with my setup.  Back in December (when I thought it was worth nothing), I was able to mine 2 Million a day.  Last week it was 120,000 a day.  A missed opportunity, but its not over yet.

Update:

Just moved a couple of rigs over to DOGE.  Everyone's away from TIPS now and 26 GHash/sec solely dedicated to the DOGE again even with the block reward drop.

Hadn't opened my DOGE wallet in a long while (3 weeks?) and low and behold there are 32,321 DOGE's in there still which I hadn't even noticed.  A nice surprise!

Update 2:

Now 250 Satoshi's, another 51 Satoshi's and PPC is toast for the Bronze medal this Olympics (or thereabouts).

Another 6955 Satoshi rise from here for the DOGE and @ $700 BTC its worth 5 cents.  Farfetched?  The things gone VIRAL.

Got none?  Get some!!! . . . but I suggested this 3 weeks ago didn't I.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqjd7wd2dj...lly%20Fast.jpg

Have a look at what someone is willing to pay for some DOGE . . . 5000 Satoshi's.

This is about to get Really Silly, Really Fast!

Prediction:  Within 24 Hours PPC will be in 4th Place in the Mineables and next the DOGE will be eyeing off LTC.

----------


## amonasro

I mine DOGE but don't think it will stay around forever. The endless inflation is a huge weak point.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqjd7wd2dj...lly%20Fast.jpg
> 
> Have a look at what someone is willing to pay for some DOGE . . . 5000 Satoshi's.
> 
> This is about to get Really Silly, Really Fast!
> 
> Prediction:  Within 24 Hours PPC will be in 4th Place in the Mineables and next the DOGE will be eyeing off LTC.


Update:

Didn't require 24 hours - DOGE $93.66 Million, PPC $93.38 Million.  From here its STRAIGHT UP TO LITECOIN and I mean Straight Up!!!

To achieve this will require a 1 Penny DOGE and roughly a 1325 Satoshi Price, perhaps a bit less if the Mining continues to be 99% of all Scrypt Mining.  Timeframe?  We're talking days here for this 450% move to happen . . .

----------


## muh_roads

How high do you want me to take Doge?  I'm convinced.

Watch.  Buying now.

I'll do a minute spike.

Need to sell some alts first...gimme a few...

----------


## muh_roads

Nevermind, those walls are massive...lol

I bought some...but man.  Those walls are massive.  And people really move it around.

This Doge thing is definitely making early adopters wealthier with BTC than what they had before.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> This Doge thing is definitely making early adopters wealthier with BTC than what they had before.


We're talking Scrypt Kiddy Lamborghini Time with DOGE #1 as license plates!  Thats how high its going!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Duplicate post, sorry.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I mine DOGE but don't think it will stay around forever. The endless inflation is a huge weak point.


You are missing the greater Macro Economic picture here.  With less than 1% of the planet into the Cryptos, and more like 0.001%, and more than 99% of the herd on planet earth very VERY soon needing to look for a spot to get away from their ever decreasing Fiat (watch what is coming this weekend, particularly in the US), and with the soon thereafter commencement of World War 3, the move coming into the Cryptos and most particularly the DOGE near term will be absolutely jaw droppingly monumental!

If you want more proof on the DOGE do this:

1.  Go to Google
2.  Search on Dogecoin, Click on News
3.  Next scroll down to the bottom of the page and click "Create an email alert for dogecoin"
4.  Next you need to have a gmail email account and address
5.  Next select these settings:

Search Query - Dogecoin
Result Type - Everything
How Often - As-it-happens
How Many - All results
Deliver to - Your gmail email address

Now with your gmail App loaded on your mobile phone, watch the alerts stream in.  It will not only convince you to buy a few now, it will convince you to drop the lot on it.

New Android Apps, New Games, The Philanthropic Coin, More vendors accepting it for payment, $30K Donation to a Childrens Charity, "Just solved a problem that Bitcoin was going to face" - 5% Coin Inflation in perpetuity . . . we know this is not a problem for BTC but right now its all about perception to an unknowing public just looking to get in anyway they can, New Cloud Mining Scrypt Mining Manufacturer focused on coins like Dogecoin, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Its in the right place, at the right time to explode!

Next watch RDD.  Same Same, a coin with a specific "SPENDABLE" intent, a immediately useable intent.  IPCO ends in 3 days, get some.  It's move is not coming till March or April, give them time to go viral.  90 days means you get all your coins by June and you get out in June/July and dump into BTC.  By 1 August you dump into Fiat . . . if that is its still around then to dump into.  Myself?  The dump will be into Gold and Silver IF I can find it.  Will leave the Lamborghini's to the youngin's.

Notice how everything else is Red right now and its going to stay that way while the DOGE is sucking up all the volume.  An unfortunate time for RDD to hit the market but perhaps this is a good thing.  Still awaiting on the listings to properly report on its true volume of mined coins, which will easily move it up 30 places on the charts and give it some visibility.  Should be a few more days which is what we want, keep the price low and the miners away while we accumulate.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Nevermind, those walls are massive...lol
> 
> I bought some...but man.  Those walls are massive.  And people really move it around.
> 
> This Doge thing is definitely making early adopters wealthier with BTC than what they had before.


As BJF said in his video yesterday, the most heavily traded coin on Bter and at Cryptsy its gone ape$#@!.  There will be heaps along the way who dump thinking its hit a peak, but they will miss out on the best part of the move.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Lets review this one again:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttsazn5uv9...t-Cap-Move.jpg

Yes there may be times when you will wish to ditch your DOGE along the way and if we use this Market Cap Funnel as a guide we will see when.  Right now we are at the Blue line and certainly the Market Cap rise has responded, but its got a long way to go from here before its overheated based on this.

As for the MOON, sorry but things haven't turned out as planned.  The Dev is a single person and you may have read that a few days after he launched the coin on 30 December, he suffered a back injury which took him out of action until a few days before the coin started to race up the charts, 3rd week of January.  Recurring complications may be happening with regard to that, I don't know, but basically from my research things are at a standstill.  Also notice how the MOON mining numbers are not increasing now as they were. I chatted with a guy one evening who knows him, about 2 weeks back, and I asked when we would see the Mac Wallet? and why it wasn't just given a bounty and let someone else code and compile it.  If you notice the Mooncoin Wallet, it has some interesting features that no other wallet has, so this Dev is a programmer.  Indications at the time were that he wanted to code the Mac Wallet himself and that we would have to wait.  RDD on the other hand set out a 0.2 BTC bounty for their Mac Wallet and had it available for Mac Users within 2 days.  This is not to say that MOON won't eventually come good, but if its a single Dev who may well be suffering further health issues, then this might be a problem going forward in terms of speed of overall business plan implementation . . . again watch how the RDD guys are kicking goals day after day, this is because they are a team of people each with their own tasks to complete and they are using all available resources on the web to get it done.  For example the new Logo Design Competition is nearly done, and that will end up costing them a massive 299 FRN's to achieve some 200-300 potential designs with not a lot of effort on their part.  Its called working smarter, not harder.

Another example, this from yesterday.  An online Reddcoin wallet at Multichain.net.

http://multichain.net/

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://coinjokes.cravegig.com/


Holding down the top joke on the Still Alive List at Altcoin Joke Battle, and position #5 and #13 in the All Time Top 20.  Vote 'em up, could use the free 1 RDD now that I am not mining any more  :-)

----------


## muh_roads

So how many Doge's do people have in here?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> So how many Doge do you have Oz?


Kicking myself, because as indicated last night I could be in the 100 Million range.  Right now have *5281914.66434515* plus the 32K strays I found last night and the paultry 20,000 I have just mined in the last 12 hours.

The plan from here is to bring 'em home, do the old shut down the internet thing and park 'em in an secure offline wallet and await till July.

Wondering now whether its off to LocalBitcoins to get some BTC or to put it into another few rigs and figure on mining another fast riser might be better, because mining the DOGE solely for the next 4-5 months will just barely take me over 10 Million.

Its looking like maybe 45,000 a day, but I will know better after 2 AM AEST.

. . . but there's a bright side, final heatwave of the season should be over in a few hours.  37.3C at the moment and temps falling, cool change moving through.  Next week looks like rain and max temps of 30C.  Should mean I can have a fiddle with the rigs and try to max out the hash rate and squeeze out a few more DOGE.

12.5 Million RDD, could be making the mistake of not continuing mining that, await the rise, dump to BTC, buy DOGE.  As I say its all a gamble, and thus far RDD is not moving.

SLV now at $20.16, when they take their foot off that, this whole thing becomes trivial anyway  ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.coindesk.com/massive-conc...oin-exchanges/

Bot Net DDoS attacks right now are a major hassle, and a growing concern going forward.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.coindesk.com/jpmorgan-rep...fiat-currency/

Sure, lets all stay in Fiat and watch these crooks steal it all.  However, notice the timing!  . . . and cross-reference the DDoS attacks above, its all connected.

----------


## KCIndy

> http://www.coindesk.com/jpmorgan-rep...fiat-currency/
> 
> Sure, lets all stay in Fiat and watch these crooks steal it all.  However, notice the timing!  . . . and cross-reference the DDoS attacks above, its all connected.



LOL!!   Yep, that's JP Morgan talking.  It's not a coincidence that the only major entities which really, REALLY hate Bitcoin are the banks.

----------


## muh_roads

> LOL!!   Yep, that's JP Morgan talking.  It's not a coincidence that the only major entities which really, REALLY hate Bitcoin are the banks.


Resistance is futile.  Keep talking $#@! and walking down the prices, banks.  kthxbye.

----------


## muh_roads

> Kicking myself, because as indicated last night I could be in the 100 Million range.  Right now have *5281914.66434515* plus the 32K strays I found last night and the paultry 20,000 I have just mined in the last 12 hours.
> 
> The plan from here is to bring 'em home, do the old shut down the internet thing and park 'em in an secure offline wallet and await till July.
> 
> Wondering now whether its off to LocalBitcoins to get some BTC or to put it into another few rigs and figure on mining another fast riser might be better, because mining the DOGE solely for the next 4-5 months will just barely take me over 10 Million.
> 
> Its looking like maybe 45,000 a day, but I will know better after 2 AM AEST.
> 
> . . . but there's a bright side, final heatwave of the season should be over in a few hours.  37.3C at the moment and temps falling, cool change moving through.  Next week looks like rain and max temps of 30C.  Should mean I can have a fiddle with the rigs and try to max out the hash rate and squeeze out a few more DOGE.
> ...


Mining Doge has become that tough already 'eh?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> http://www.coindesk.com/massive-conc...oin-exchanges/
> 
> Bot Net DDoS attacks right now are a major hassle, and a growing concern going forward.


I don't foresee this being a major problem going forward.  Rather, it's apparently a hassle to implement as Mt. Gox and other exchanges did not implement the correct measures to prevent DDoS attacks.  In the Andreas M. Antonopolous article, he acknowledges that he thinks all of the exchanges will implement their wallets correctly in a week, and the exchange market will grow more robust as a result of that.

http://www.coinspectator.com/andreas...bitcoin-chaos/

This is what I have been saying.  It's a good thing that this happened now because I think it will ultimately have a positive effect that the system was stress-tested.  If this was really caused by the banks, you'd think they would recognize that pointing out a problem doesn't hinder BTC, it actually makes it better.  Although it may seem like a problem at the moment, it doesn't take much to see that all of the exchanges are going to learn a lesson from Mt. Gox's mistake and fix it before it becomes a major problem.  After that is done, it will be a thing of the past. 

Mt. Gox is suffering the most right now because of the way it handled the situation.  First, it blamed the problem on the BTC software, which is incorrect and very irresponsible on their part.  Secondly, they let everyone panic by waiting until a problem was already apparent before explaining what was going on.  Now they are suffering the consequences and will hopefully continue to suffer the consequences so people can see that they are untrustworthy and incompetent.  They have already been relegated to minor exchange status, and now the major exchanges can focus on mitigating the problem before it becomes a problem.

At first, I was worried about this, but I really don't think it's going to be a problem for long.  Going forward, it's going to be a good thing that this happened now and we got it out of the way so that the BTC network can be strengthened and grow as a result.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Mining Doge has become that tough already 'eh?


Yep, and its probably worse than I had estimated.  Probably a 2-3 day average will be more appropriate, but looking like 35,000 a day now.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yep, and its probably worse than I had estimated.  Probably a 2-3 day average will be more appropriate, but looking like 35,000 a day now.


Is it still going todamoon?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> At first, I was worried about this, but I really don't think it's going to be a problem for long.


Not a problem?  Try to get your DOGE out of Craptsy right now, if you did buy some yesterday, and see what you get . . . a big fat nadda, no coins, along with no feedback, no website response, no ticket response, nothing.

From 4-6 PM local time here (about 7 hours ago) while you guys were probably sleeping, both DOGE and then EAC disappeared from the tradeable list.  No explanation nothing, just vanished as did my coin balances for both.  Just how many other coins were affected I can't say, I only noticed these two.  And now that its working hours again not a peep from Crapsty.

Over in a few of the troll boxes, people have been waiting 4+ days to get coins out of Crapsty, and nothing in terms of a response to Ticket/Email requests.  Most likely they've been eyeing down this opportunity with the DOGE to do a runner with the coins is my best guess, and I sure as $#@! hope that I am wrong, but if they do this it will totally shatter any and all confidence in these newer Altcoins because basically there is no safe place remaining to trade them.  Some on CoinEx commenting that similar things going on over there in terms of exiting the joint, so trader beware . . . its basically a one way trip in and no way out.  Indeed if they don't do this now, just when will they actually do it, knowing the temptation will always be there.  Or when will their incompetence in setting up a secure server situation find your coins stolen by a hacker or wiped by some Cyber Attack?  This will be a lingering doubt on your mind forever more, after reading this, when trading through these sites.

Will NEVER trade at Craptsy ever again!!!  From here on in its Mine and Purchase $#@! with the coins, or Mine and Hold.  Confidence is in this thing now ZERO!

----------


## muh_roads

> Yep, and its probably worse than I had estimated.  Probably a 2-3 day average will be more appropriate, but looking like 35,000 a day now.


I understand what Doge can accomplish now.  Alts are all about hype & meme.  It is basically a complete opposite of Bitcoin in supply.  But a Doge is far more enjoyable and funny to send than a satoshi when tipping someone for a comment they made.  It is the charity coin.  Its value is derived from the meme brand.  The Jamaican Bob Sled thing was a great story about charity.  More charities are going to open.

I'm glad to hear mining is getting difficult.  Has it halved yet?

Grabbed 11.2m Doge's.  I hope it drops as I'll need more to keep up with unit inflation.  Don't be down on your 5.1m. Companies will start forming to sell these like raffle tickets...  they could meet parity with a US penny.   Out of the existing 48b, you own 1 piece out of 10,000 pieces in the global Doge economy.

Somebody needs to make a meme as powerful as Doge but with Scrypt Nfactor
.

----------


## muh_roads

> Not a problem?  Try to get your DOGE out of Craptsy right now, if you did buy some yesterday, and see what you get . . . a big fat nadda, no coins, along with no feedback, no website response, no ticket response, nothing.
> 
> From 4-6 PM local time here (about 7 hours ago) while you guys were probably sleeping, both DOGE and then EAC disappeared from the tradeable list.  No explanation nothing, just vanished as did my coin balances for both.  Just how many other coins were affected I can't say, I only noticed these two.  And now that its working hours again not a peep from Crapsty.
> 
> Over in a few of the troll boxes, people have been waiting 4+ days to get coins out of Crapsty, and nothing in terms of a response to Ticket/Email requests.  Most likely they've been eyeing down this opportunity with the DOGE to do a runner with the coins is my best guess, and I sure as $#@! hope that I am wrong, but if they do this it will totally shatter any and all confidence in these newer Altcoins because basically there is no safe place remaining to trade them.  Some on CoinEx commenting that similar things going on over there in terms of exiting the joint, so trader beware . . . its basically a one way trip in and no way out.  Indeed if they don't do this now, just when will they actually do it, knowing the temptation will always be there.  Or when will their incompetence in setting up a secure server situation find your coins stolen by a hacker or wiped by some Cyber Attack?  This will be a lingering doubt on your mind forever more, after reading this, when trading through these sites.
> 
> Will NEVER trade at Craptsy ever again!!!  From here on in its Mine and Purchase $#@! with the coins, or Mine and Hold.  Confidence is in this thing now ZERO!


Can you sell for BTC and withdraw that?  Go rebuy on a different exchange.

----------


## muh_roads

People panic too much.  It'll work itself out.  I'm gonna dollar cost average and take advantage of the panic dip going on.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I was actually talking about BTC.  I didn't even know this was a problem with Cryptsy, but I did successfully convert to BTC and withdraw my coins after reading your post.  Is this the same problem that Mt. Gox had and what makes you think that it won't be fixed?

How is it different for the altcoins than it is for BTC?

I like to keep in mind, as I think others should:

One of the hallmarks of a successful investor is to learn to be hopeful when others are fearful, and to be fearful when others are hopeful.

In any case, I feel pretty safe right now considering my coins are currently not on any of the exchanges affected by this.  I deal solely with Coinbase for buying and selling BTC and transfer from there for altcoins.  I may have to consider staying away from altcoins, however, considering what SomewhereInOz just alerted me to.  I had actually witnessed the DOGE being taken off of Cryptsy last night, but was in a rush and didn't have time to investigate.  I have my BTC now plus a small profit, so I'm hoping to wait out this whole transaction malleability hysteria going on.

----------


## muh_roads

Dogecoin is going to be a real test of the strength of the Blockchain.  It will grow in size much faster due to how many units and fractions of those units it has to keep track of.

----------


## muh_roads

> I was actually talking about BTC.  I didn't even know this was a problem with Cryptsy, but I did successfully convert to BTC and withdraw my coins after reading your post.  Is this the same problem that Mt. Gox had and what makes you think that it won't be fixed?
> 
> How is it different for the altcoins than it is for BTC?
> 
> I like to keep in mind, as I think others should:
> 
> One of the hallmarks of a successful investor is to learn to be hopeful when others are fearful, and to be fearful when others are hopeful.


Gonna test withdraws in small increments soon.  Curious if they are only allowing withdraws if it is within a certain percent of your total.

Also, are you guys behind a VPN?

I'm willing to bet they just need to upgrade their servers.

Yes be greedy when others are fearful.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Gonna test withdraws in small increments soon.  Curious if they are only allowing withdraws if it is within a certain percent of your total.
> 
> Also, are you guys behind a VPN?
> 
> I'm willing to bet they just need to upgrade their servers.
> 
> Yes be greedy when others are fearful.


Yes, that is what I meant to say.  Same concept, though.

FWIW, I withdrew all of my BTC, leaving only some quark that my father insisted on buying for him.  I had no faith in that investment anyway.

I don't see why Cryptsy can't just do like the other BTC exchanges anyway and just freeze withdrawals for a few days while they sort everything out and implement the correct security measures to prevent DDoS attacks, if indeed, that is what's going on over there.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I understand what Doge can accomplish now.  Alts are all about hype & meme.  It is basically a complete opposite of Bitcoin in supply.  But a Doge is far more enjoyable and funny to send than a satoshi when tipping someone for a comment they made.  It is the charity coin.  Its value is derived from the meme brand.  The Jamaican Bob Sled thing was a great story about charity.  More charities are going to open.
> 
> I'm glad to hear mining is getting difficult.  Has it halved yet?
> 
> Grabbed 11.2m Doge's.  I hope it drops as I'll need more to keep up with unit inflation.  Don't be down on your 5.1m. Companies will start forming to sell these like raffle tickets...  they could meet parity with a US penny.   Out of the existing 48b, you own 1 piece out of 10,000 pieces in the global Doge economy.
> 
> Somebody needs to make a meme as powerful as Doge but with Scrypt Nfactor
> .


I think you have made a good move with 11.2M Doge's.  I think you can see now the community building nature of the coin and the charity effect that certain Doge owners are doing with the coin.  I think none of these coins are worthwhile unless there is a growing network of people actually putting them to good use.  To be honest Doge is the first one where we are seeing real tangible impact.  The others have good intentions but have not created comparable tangible results yet.

Yes Doge is slipping a bit and 300 was always going to be a point of resistance, particularly since it represents the point at which Doge becomes the 3rd place coin.  I saw a news alert earlier pointing out this very fact (the 3rd place thing), and its this increased visibility which will drive the price higher.

I hope you have been able to setup the Google News Alerts for your mobile phone, because it allows one to stay very closely in touch with what is happening with a given coin on a daily basis.  Its great for all kinds of other research topics as well.

As a point of example, when I do a Google News Search on Dogecoin right now I get 8780 news results, when I do the same thing with Namecoin I get 1830 news results, so moving away from Namecoin and into Dogecoin will in the end prove much more profitable I think.

Anyway, my Doge are now all parked here away from Cryptsy (finally they have responded), and as I have no intentions on trying to find a peak and buy back in on a dip, I will next take them offline and secure them away, and try to grow them through mining.

As one news alert just then indicates (from a fellow on Overclock.net) - "I'm personally in it for the long run.  Although I'm thinking about selling some to buy more after the dump.  Kinda risky though".  I agree, it might be risky.

Could it be we have just seen the Doge Dump and now at 271 its headed higher? 

As I need more Bitcoin to buy more and this will take a few days to organise, I kinda wish it would dump a bit harder right now and not run away on us too fast.

Also agree on the mining thing.  When miners are pulling in millions of anything in a given day, it very much casts a dim light on any coins value.  Now that I am only getting 35,000 a day and potentially one day (2020???) it will be worth $1 per coin, so I will just have to think of it in those terms.  Its very much like the 2009 Bitcoin miner who was told one day this thing will be worth $1000, to which he must have thought "yeah right sure".

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Gonna test withdraws in small increments soon.  Curious if they are only allowing withdraws if it is within a certain percent of your total.
> 
> Also, are you guys behind a VPN?
> 
> I'm willing to bet they just need to upgrade their servers.
> 
> Yes be greedy when others are fearful.


I saw earlier that Cryptsy wanted people to take out the Doge in particular in the largest amounts possible, as this only made things more difficult when people withdrew a few thousand coins at a time.  You might wish to check the blog on their website, because that is where it was discussed.  Apparently it slows things down - technical reason given there.

Apparently it was only a few days ago that they did upgrade their servers.  This is what had me so concerned when everything had been knocked off trading and then I read all this DDoS attack news hitting Bitstamp and BTC-e and all the rest of them.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I saw earlier that Cryptsy wanted people to take out the Doge in particular in the largest amounts possible, as this only made things more difficult when people withdrew a few thousand coins at a time.  You might wish to check the blog on their website, because that is where it was discussed.  Apparently it slows things down - technical reason given there.
> 
> Apparently it was only a few days ago that they did upgrade their servers.  This is what had me so concerned when everything had been knocked off trading and then I read all this DDoS attack news hitting Bitstamp and BTC-e and all the rest of them.


Oh, I assumed you already knew about the others.  That's why I was confused by your response.  In the end, though, I think it's going to be a good thing.

----------


## fahrenheit

Litepresence, are you here? Would love to hear your current opinions on the market. I kinda miss that ms paint TA magic

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Another JPMer bites the dust:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...rogram-trading

and relationship to one two weeks ago:

http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=801

Hmmm, no Silver left eh JPM.  Well Gold's started its move, so Silver will be following along shortly:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne..._55_Surge.html

----------


## amonasro

Seeing as Doge might stick around longer than I thought I'll probably save a larger percentage of mined coins. I get ~20,000/day on my 3.1mh rig. I'm also looking at other coins with potential staying power... This silly MEOW coin might be a good match for DOGE. They have an active dev team who are planning a change in the mining algo so pools can't take advantage. My wife is a VP in digital marketing at a huge PR firm and will be contributing some ideas that (hopefully) will give it a much needed boost.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Seeing as Doge might stick around longer than I thought I'll probably save a larger percentage of mined coins. I get ~20,000/day on my 3.1mh rig. I'm also looking at other coins with potential staying power... This silly MEOW coin might be a good match for DOGE. They have an active dev team who are planning a change in the mining algo so pools can't take advantage. My wife is a VP in digital marketing at a huge PR firm and will be contributing some ideas that (hopefully) will give it a much needed boost.


You know you raise a good point.  Quite literally by association and nothing else, MEOW could well move along nicely too along with DOGE.  Just watching it on the charts and last night the 1 Million MEOW's I had, I thought hmmm, I think I will hang onto those just in case, and today they are moving a bit.  Yes their Dev team seems quite coordinated, at least from the Project Management brief I saw a few weeks back it seems they are working a plan.  Agree this Kimoto Gravity Well implementation as discovered by Megacoin, and implemented last Saturday quite effectively by Reddcoin certainly seemed to do the trick at boosting my mined numbers, so I'm sure the more clued in Dev's will be trying it, particularly when mining pools attack them.  Kitteh is a really new coin, so it too is one you have to have a bit of patience with, at least a month from when it turned up on the charts - with Kitteh I think thats around 24 January, so 24 February.  Given BTC should be nearing its bottom just shortly thereafter, a case could be made for patience on into early March for MEOW.

I need to check more closely because my 8.6 MHash/sec capability should be doing much better.

Again, an excellent read on the Kimoto Gravity Well found here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/com...nting_kimotos/

----------


## muh_roads

What is the smallest doge miners fee?

Would someone mind lending me some doge? I'm testing my local wallet encryption before I transfer out of Cryptsy.

----------


## muh_roads

> ...They have an active dev team who are planning a change in the mining algo so pools can't take advantage. My wife is a VP in digital marketing at a huge PR firm and will be contributing some ideas that (hopefully) will give it a much needed boost.


Kitteh is going to switch to Scrypt Nfactor?

Cat people versus dog people.  It's like Microsoft fanboys versus Sony fanboys.

----------


## muh_roads

lol
http://www.experiensense.com/wp-cont.../dogecoin2.jpg

----------


## amonasro

> You know you raise a good point.  Quite literally by association and nothing else, MEOW could well move along nicely too along with DOGE.  Just watching it on the charts and last night the 1 Million MEOW's I had, I thought hmmm, I think I will hang onto those just in case, and today they are moving a bit.  Yes their Dev team seems quite coordinated, at least from the Project Management brief I saw a few weeks back it seems they are working a plan.  Agree this Kimoto Gravity Well implementation as discovered by Megacoin, and implemented last Saturday quite effectively by Reddcoin certainly seemed to do the trick at boosting my mined numbers, so I'm sure the more clued in Dev's will be trying it, particularly when mining pools attack them.  Kitteh is a really new coin, so it too is one you have to have a bit of patience with, at least a month from when it turned up on the charts - with Kitteh I think thats around 24 January, so 24 February.  Given BTC should be nearing its bottom just shortly thereafter, a case could be made for patience on into early March for MEOW.
> 
> I need to check more closely because my 8.6 MHash/sec capability should be doing much better.
> 
> Again, an excellent read on the Kimoto Gravity Well found here:
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/com...nting_kimotos/


Until the block reward halving I was getting 20k DOGE per day, on average. I find mining on larger pools nets better average results; as an example on Multipool I can get a constant payout, but on smaller pools they are totally random. I mined for an entire day on a small pool and got 3 coins. THREE. Fits with the random block reward of DOGE though, so makes sense. On a small pool, if you find a million block then it makes up for the days of nothing.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> What is the smallest doge miners fee?
> 
> Would someone mind lending me some doge? I'm testing my local wallet encryption before I transfer out of Cryptsy.



Not sure what you mean by Miners fee.  Basically the fee for admission is to simply have a rig.  Everything else is free.

The cost of a simple computer with just one Sapphire R9 290 graphics card?  I could probably build such a machine for $1800.  Hash rate would probably be 750 KiloHash/Sec.  Which means in one day should mine 3500 coins.  Through the course of the year lets say it drops to 1200 coins for a median daily harvest of 1756 coins.  Then multiply by 365 = 640,000ish coins in the next year.  Not bad, power consumption shouldn't be too much on top of that.  Single R9 290 and the fan noise wouldn't be bad, in a temperate climate could probably run the fan speed for the GPU down at 50% or less.  Lets say it costs $3/day in power.  Total capital cost + operating cost for first year would be $2895.  Then sell the machine to a Gamer on eBay for $1200, wait till the Doge is 5 cents a coin and profit would be $32,000 - $2895 + $1200 =  $30,305.

What's your DOGE wallet address, will send 1000

----------


## muh_roads

> Not sure what you mean by Miners fee.  Basically the fee for admission is to simply have a rig.  Everything else is free.
> 
> The cost of a simple computer with just one Sapphire R9 290 graphics card?  I could probably build such a machine for $1800.  Hash rate would probably be 750 KiloHash/Sec.  Which means in one day should mine 3500 coins.  Through the course of the year lets say it drops to 1200 coins for a median daily harvest of 1756 coins.  Then multiply by 365 = 640,000ish coins in the next year.  Not bad, power consumption shouldn't be too much on top of that.
> 
> Whats your DOGE wallet address, will send 1000


Actually I just had to make a new address within the wallet to test the encryption.  So it's all good.

That sounds retarded.  640K = 1.7 BTC.  For $1800 you could buy 2.79 BTC and buy more coins up front.  Once Scrypt Nfactor starts being used more, even the Scrypt ASIC's being worked on now will be a huge waste of money.

This industry moves fast.  Christ.  Lots of banker wealth being transferred back to the people right now.

----------


## muh_roads

Wow almost knocking Peercoin out of 3rd.

http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html

Yeah I'm convinced tipping coins based on hype & meme will be swapping places with other tipping coins for #2.

Litecoin truly offers nothing new over Bitcoin that makes it amazing.  This meme $#@! is different.  I can't predict this.  I think they'll go for $1 for 100 if tipping and charity internet communities keep embracing.

This thing might meet parity with the US dime...not just the penny.

----------


## muh_roads

Where do I buy reddcoin?  Might as well tag that one while I'm at it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Duplicate Post

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Duplicate Post

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Actually I just had to make a new address within the wallet to test the encryption.  So it's all good.
> 
> That sounds retarded.  640K = 1.7 BTC.  For $1800 you could buy 2.79 BTC and buy more coins up front.  Once Scrypt Nfactor starts being used more, even the Scrypt ASIC's being worked on now will be a huge waste of money.
> 
> This industry moves fast.  Christ.  Lots of banker wealth being transferred back to the people right now.


Indeed right now simply looking at the DOGE example, would be best to simply buy 640K coins and be done with it.

Thing is when you have the rigs you have them.  And without the rigs you don't get a chance to play new coins you think might move up quickly like Reddcoin.  No way I could have acquired 12.5 Million of them in the first week of existance without being a miner.  RDD started at 64th spot, dropped to 75th spot, but now is at 49th spot and has moved 50% in price from 4 Satoshi's to 6 Satoshi's, and this is still just the beginning.  Still they are under-reporting the total number of coins mined so far, so it really belongs at this price much higher up in the ranking.  Such mining campaigns such as RDD and MOON last 7-10 days max and then you move onto the next one or back to DOGE while you wait for the next good opportunity.  Conceivably you could go for 15-20 new coins a year like this.  So being a miner offers some flexibility that a normal trader does not have.

Now arguably yes, if you were watching RDD, and seeing that by Day 3, CoinMarket was offering coins, you could have bought them there at a good price without being a miner.  But as with all these things you need to keep watching and researching.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Where do I buy reddcoin?  Might as well tag that one while I'm at it.


Right now your only option is to setup an account at CoinMarket.io

https://www.coinmarket.io/market/RDDBTC

The price is 6 Satoshi's and seems heaps available to purchase.

Give me a half hour and I will calculate from the blockchain how many coins exist, and from that where the ranking should be right now.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Wow almost knocking Peercoin out of 3rd.
> 
> http://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html
> 
> Yeah I'm convinced tipping coins based on hype & meme will be swapping places with other tipping coins for #2.
> 
> Litecoin truly offers nothing new over Bitcoin that makes it amazing.  This meme $#@! is different.  I can't predict this.  I think they'll go for $1 for 100 if tipping and charity internet communities keep embracing.
> 
> This thing might meet parity with the US dime...not just the penny.


Was having a think about Litecoin today and its price.  About the only thing it had going for it when the list was only 10 coins was "Bitcoin is Gold and Litecoin is Silver", but that analogy no longer fits.  Well in a few months it won't when Dogecoin is #2.  Litecoin needs to do something quick to establish a spending theme, else it could drop a long way from here.

Litecoin in a Google News search right now = 4050 results.  Dogecoin up to 9060 results.

It could make a dime, but I will be happy in the initial instance with a penny.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

OK on Reddcoin (RDD) new blocks are being discovered very fast.  Its roughly one every 1.5 minutes, but lets call it 2 minutes to be conservative.  Right now they are mining block 16,000 or so.  Which means in 800 minutes or 13.3 hours the coin reward per block will drop by 50,000 coins as shown here:

Block 0-9,999 - 300,000 coins
Block 10,000-19,999 - 200,000 coins
Block 20,000-29,999 - 150,000 coins
Block 30,000+ = 100,000 coins

Then in a further 20,000 minutes or roughly 13.9 days it will drop to only 100,000 coins.  This will make mining profits lower and the price should move as a result.

From the blockchain at this moment, we can see that 27,078,023,400 coins have already been mined or 24.84%.  So assuming a BTC price of $645 and various Satoshi prices for RDD we get a true Market Cap of:

1 Satoshi = $174,653 - Position 74
2 Satoshi = $349,306 - Position 49
3 Satoshi = $523,959 - Position 44
4 Satoshi = $698,613 - Position 38
5 Satoshi = $873,266 - Position 35
6 Satoshi = $1,047,919 - Position 32
7 Satoshi = $1,222,572 - Position 32
8 Satoshi = $1,397,226 - Position 29
9 Satoshi = $1,571,879 - Position 24
10 Satoshi = $1,746,532 - Position 22
30 Satoshi = $5,239,597 - Position 14

Right now RDD is showing 8,959,710,000 coins and a price of 5 Satoshi (Market Cap $288,960) but to buy them at CoinMarket you need to pay 6 Satoshi.  Current position is 56th spot and rising, but the move is not because of a price rise, its because they (the Devs) are feeding ever increasing mined coin numbers to Crypto-Currency Market Cap and CCMC is not investigating the blockchain, but taking their word for it.

This way a gradual rise through the charts can take place, instead of a one off shock jump, and from here as people see RDD over the next 7 days or so rising quite nicely, we will most likely then see some upwards price pressure on the coin price.

Of course in 14 days time we will see a secondary price boost because miners will be discovering fewer and fewer coins in their mining.

Its a pretty clever tactic.  The coins exist, they know the coins exist, I can see the coins exist, but why tell the world just yet  :-)

So what am I saying?  I'm saying 6 Satoshi is cheap right now because the eventual move up the ranking and accompanying visibility might just drive the price to 30 Satoshi in the next 14 days.  And as 6 to 30 is a 5 Bagger, then you can't argue with that one, particularly where in the next 14 days BTC will only be headed further down towards $500 and difficult to play for profits.

Addendum:

While I typed all that, now in position #48

Addendum #2:

IPCO now at 102 BTC so the move up the charts is having an effect.  Less than 3 days to go till the IPCO ends.  This is how you bring a new coin onto the market!

As this is an IPCO (Initial Public Coin Offering), and the more coin investors means each gets fewer coins, if you are thinking of investing less than a BTC into it, you are probably better off just going to Coinmarket and purchasing them.  The only true winners now will be those who trump the highest bid and grab the most coins for a value of 2-3 Satoshi each.  This could well cost you 7-10 BTC or more in the coming days, and then you won't receive the last of your coins until 90 days from now.  To do this you would need to be pretty darned certain RDD will be roaring strong in 90 days time.  I think I will watch the next 14 days and perhaps pick an exit point and move some or all of the 12.5 Million into Doge.  Will have to see how those milestone dates mentioned play out and what gets introduced via the RDD website along the way.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Won't be waiting so long for the next DOGE Block Halving and price move:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/com...3o3/halvening/

100,000 blocks, each block being found in a minute = 100,000 minutes = 1667 Hours = 69 Days = 20 April 2014 approximately

So planning to mine the DOGE the whole of 2014 probably won't make sense as it will just get harder and harder to discover new coins as seen here:

Block# : Dogecoin Reward
1-100,000: 0-1,000,000 Dogecoin Reward - 18 Dec 13
100,001 — 200,000: 0-500,000 Dogecoin Reward - 11 Feb 14
200,001 — 300,000: 0-250,000 Dogecoin Reward - 20 Apr 14 - this will probably be it for me
300,001 — 400,000: 0-125,000 Dogecoin Reward - 29 Jun 14
400,001 — 500,000: 0-62,500 Dogecoin Reward - 7 Sep 14
500,001 - 600,000: 0-31,250 Dogecoin Reward - 16 Nov 14
600,000+ : 10,000 Dogecoin Reward (flat) - 25 Jan 15

This would probably not happen so fast if there weren't so many miners.

Would be VERY surprised if the DOGE is not worth 1 Penny by 1 Jan 15, very surprised.

What would make more sense is to go out on a limb now, if you believe this will continue, and slap down another 10-20 BTC on it and be done with it.  But will the DOGE stay tame while we await a BTC bottom?  This is the question.

Another Reddit Link:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/com...the_halvening/

----------


## presence

Image may go off edge of screen, right click "VIEW IMAGE" for full size.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Image may go off edge of screen, right click "VIEW IMAGE" for full size.


I don't get it.  Where are we supposed to be on that chart?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I don't get it.  Where are we supposed to be on that chart?


Right about Purgatory, eyeing up at Good Karma.  3 weeks to go.  Nice moon.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Nice.  Do you think it will go back over 700 before hitting bottom?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Nice.  Do you think it will go back over 700 before hitting bottom?


It will rise up from here.  Needs to bottom first though.  $700 is a bit ambitious.  Maybe $650 is my guess.

Reason:  There's too much time left before this cycle is due to be completed.  BTC will need to do something before it decides to make its final descent.

Gox $473 right now.  Thats funny.  Who would buy from Gox anyway with this coming:

http://enenews.com/nhk-record-cesium...om-ocean-video

http://enenews.com/eu-funded-study-5...million-people

They'll be relocating soon . . . 

Just remember end March.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I don't know... I'm no expert, but $700 looks pretty reasonable to me.

EDIT: But I'm looking at Bitstamp.  I'm curious why btc-e is lagging behind a little.

----------


## presence

GOX 468 LAST

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I don't know... I'm no expert, but $700 looks pretty reasonable to me.
> 
> EDIT: But I'm looking at Bitstamp.  I'm curious why btc-e is lagging behind a little.


I'm no expert either, but just looking at the sweeping arc that takes us down to early March (second half of red dragon tail), it kinda needs a lift first to achieve this.  Sure $700 could be possible.

However, the global events coming during this 3 week period will be nowhere near as tame as June 2013, so be prepared to see virtually anything happen this time around - particularly that period from say 27 Feb to 4 March.

----------


## AdamT

> I don't get it.  Where are we supposed to be on that chart?


This.

----------


## AdamT

> GOX 468 LAST


Gox price doesn't mean much at this point.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.coindesk.com/silk-road-2-...bitcoins-hack/

Wouldn't trust anything of significance and value at Cryptsy, nor CoinEx etc.  Its a place to get in, swap 'em and get out.

Some have long speculated that Cryptsy plays with your DOGE while you are not and I wouldn't be surprised that this is why its so hard to get them out.

The hacking and wallet stealing will only increase from here, so take precautions

----------


## KCIndy

Just curious - I keep seeing everyone quoting prices from BTC-e and Gox and Bitstamp.  Does anyone buy from Coinbase?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Does anyone buy from Coinbase?


That's where I buy coinage at, they're the best.

----------


## presence

I'm calling bottom right there.  I'm all in.





my bot bought me into the "floor" area.  I turned it off and I'm in crypto

----------


## KCIndy

> That's where I buy coinage at, they're the best.


Me too.  I was just wondering why no one was mentioning them...






> I'm calling bottom right there.  I'm all in.


I just bought from Coinbase at $591.

----------


## presence

Next on agenda:

----------


## presence

Tonights bot results:

PPC "Twerk" which was my latest release to subscribers bought

$3.50 PPC in a "goldmine" bid

----------


## XTreat

Sold LTC @  $21, bought back @ $14.50

Sold BTC @ 800, Bought back @ 575

Also dropped some fresh fiat on a few new BTC from Coinbase @ $600

----------


## SomewhereInOz

How on earth does something go up +14,844% and show no upturn in the Market Cap graph?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/drhh2jzymzgegdz/Volt.jpg

5th Place on the Non-Mineable Charts?  WTF?

VOLT . . . Couldn't make it as a Car, what the hell lets give it a go as an Altcoin  :-)

I think someone fat-fingered a data entry there . . . amusing.

Goes to show these charts are not reading and compiling from the Blockchains, but rather relying on feedback from the Dev's, and then data is manually entered.  Key point to note.

Reddcoin IPCO now @ 115 BTC.  Wondering if the investors know the true story?  :-)

Addendum:

There we go thats better, a loss of 28% and back down to 66th position.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Sticking to the original plan and awaiting the final bottom to be in.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uhxijijnz...BTC-Bottom.jpg

. . . and hopefully bring down the DOGE with it.  Would love to see 150 Satoshi's again.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> How on earth does something go up +14,844% and show no upturn in the Market Cap graph?


The graph is 7 days, the % change is last 24 hours.
So basically, data got collected by cryptocoincharts that the highest buy order was very very low for a short moment exactly 24 hours ago.

Possibly there was 0 buy orders in the list at the given index at that time. That happened at TIPS/BTC too.

----------


## Aldanga

> http://www.coindesk.com/silk-road-2-...bitcoins-hack/
> 
> Wouldn't trust anything of significance and value at Cryptsy, nor CoinEx etc.  Its a place to get in, swap 'em and get out.
> 
> Some have long speculated that Cryptsy plays with your DOGE while you are not and I wouldn't be surprised that this is why its so hard to get them out.
> 
> The hacking and wallet stealing will only increase from here, so take precautions


I'm convinced there wasn't any hacking and SR2 was just a huge scam from the start. There is little, if any, evidence that their systems were externally compromised.

Cryptsy just swapped Doge wallets due to the insane number of transactions. It was taking hours and hours to get transactions confirmed. I would guess the short removal of the DOGE/BTC trading pair and withdrawals were related to that.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Never thought we would see this two months ago.

I guess by Monday its free Bitcoins at Mt. Gox?  Or will they be paying you to take them at that point?

Mark Karpeles is probably thinking right about now, "Hmmmm, maybe I shouldn't have blamed it on the Bitcoin transaction malleability"

He'd be the one in the bull fight photo 3 posts up  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I'm convinced there wasn't any hacking and SR2 was just a huge scam from the start. There is little, if any, evidence that their systems were externally compromised.
> 
> Cryptsy just swapped Doge wallets due to the insane number of transactions. It was taking hours and hours to get transactions confirmed. I would guess the short removal of the DOGE/BTC trading pair and withdrawals were related to that.


Well I just found it very strange that after enough tickets were sent to Cryptsy indicating what they were up to with people's DOGE and how they were about to lose a tonne of customers, that the DOGE not only returned to my wallet, they FLEW into my wallet.  I don't buy the Cryptsy swamped transaction argument one bit, sorry.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/426...g-information/

Penguincoin, because as the world's about to head into a mini-Ice Age, you need Penguincoin.  Penguincoin, it won't freeze in -60F temps, it doesn't require anti-freeze and best of all with our handy dandy android app you can send some to your neighbour Bill so he will come by and snowblow your driveway.  Trade it for hot chocolate, trade it for mittens, you can even trade it for 30 minutes sitting by your neighbours warm fire while you thaw out.  Yes Penguincoin, its the worlds first and only mini-Ice Age coin, and just in time too!  Brought to you by Penguin International Inc. since 2014.

:-)  Sorry, just scratching my head and trying to come up with a theme/need/use.

FFS how many of these will there be?

Just one missing . . . RadioactiveCoin

Theme song's there already, just need the coin now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktvTqknDobU

----------


## btcltc

Jesus, we are a mess. Will nmc ever recover? Ppc? Btc seems $#@!ed

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Just curious - I keep seeing everyone quoting prices from BTC-e and Gox and Bitstamp.  Does anyone buy from Coinbase?


I only deal with Coinbase, but they're not an actual exchange.  They simply buy and sell BTC as a middle man and try to match their rate with the rates being shown on the exchanges, so the market doesn't really determine a rate at Coinbase.  They are simply watching and basing their rates on the market rate.  You can't place any orders on Coinbase.  The only thing you can do is watch and buy/sell your BTC to Coinbase.  On an actual exchange, people buy/sell to other people, but Coinbase deals with customers directly.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Sold LTC @  $21, bought back @ $14.50
> 
> Sold BTC @ 800, Bought back @ 575
> 
> Also dropped some fresh fiat on a few new BTC from Coinbase @ $600


I got faked out by the mini crash.  I sold BTC @ 800 and bought back in @ 680.  Still have a pretty nice stash, but it could have been nicer.  Maybe I'll buy in some more before it goes up even further.  Still getting used to trading.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Sadly the frequent flyer points will probably be the most valuable thing that comes out of this effort:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cryptocurre...rotest-1436413

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Jesus, we are a mess. Will nmc ever recover? Ppc? Btc seems $#@!ed


Not sure why you say that.  I don't have much faith in NMC or PPC, but BTC will recover, I believe.

----------


## muh_roads

> Jesus, we are a mess. Will nmc ever recover? Ppc? Btc seems $#@!ed


They are dropping because btc is dropping.  I took the small loss on my ltc and nmc and bailed a few days ago.  They will go back up when btc does.  Actually, ltc was never a loss for me personally.  I put $100 into it in 2012.

As for ppc, I can't predict what will happen.  Proof of stake is a horrible economic philosophy and more sha256 miners are pointing to it as the btc diff rises.  Their intentions will most likely be to keep selling.  Bitcoin people don't like unlimited supply caps.

----------


## KCIndy

Bitcoin seems like it's taking a bit of an upward bounce today.  Showing 717 right now on Coinbase.

Glad I jumped on last night at 571 with the very last of my expendable FRNs...   


And for everyone who is feeling panicky - for everyone feeling little butterflies scrabbling around in their poor little tummies.... let's keep this in perspective.

Exactly one year ago BTC was selling for $27 USD.

Kinda puts things into perspective.

----------


## presence

> I don't get it.  Where are we supposed to be on that chart?



On 1d chart scale, we are on our way to either:

1) Good Karma

2) Redemption

or 

3) Lets do it again.   


My money is on #3


in a grossly pessimistic sense... on 3d chart scale we could be at "bulltrap"


In 30m or 15m chart scale... we're in "green dragon" 1 or 2.  



This pattern is a fractal... which occurs in many micro and macrocosms

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> On 1d chart scale, we are on our way to either:
> 
> 1) Good Karma
> 
> 2) Redemption
> 
> or 
> 
> 3) Lets do it again.   
> ...


Good Karma . . . $689 . . . 3 weeks . . . Lotsa Time

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Meanwhile over in those other coins, in the "real" coin category, seems both Aurum and Argentum are having a good day.  A good past couple of days in fact:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc3eri9ywr...20Feb%2014.jpg

Now why would that be?  It wouldn't be related to that which we are watching would it?  Or would it?

Or perhaps its related to this:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/jp...usiness-2014-2

Or maybe totally unrelated to any of the foregoing, and they suicided the guy who normally runs the naked shorting desk at JPM by mistake.  ;-)

Interesting story:

Maybe a bit too early to tell, but the Web Bots foresaw Gold and Silver cutting lose when Bitcoin hit $340.50.  This was last June or so.  So we all waited and watched and along came November and $340.50 and nothing.  8-(

If you recall back then, Gox was your goto site for Bitcoin price and so that was the one you went to if you didn't know better . . . at least I did.  Seemed a fair representation and widely known site for what Bitcoin was currently worth.

Then for a month or so, the word was it was a decimal error, and that in fact it will only happen when Bitcoin hits $3405.  The hypothesis then was given that it was so prominent in the immediacy linguistic data for early 2014, a date was even given - 15 January 2014.

So 15 Jan 14 comes and goes and nope, no $3405 for Bitcoin.   |-(

So then we look closer at all this BTC price spiking and consolidation and long term trend analysis and it begins to appear that $3405 is not going to happen till July 2014 on the way to $8000 or whatever the peak is then.  This is strange I thought, the system's falling apart at the seams already, JPM is signaling its going long on the PM's, Deutsche bank wants out of the rigging, meanwhile the Germans all of a sudden say "thats ok USA, take your time giving us back our gold, 2015 will be fine and dandy - Huh?  WTF?, and this weekend we've got Cyber-Attack bank shutdown drills everywhere across the US in preparation. In preparation for what?  Who knows, but they're prepping for something.  Surely it can't wait till July 2014!?!?

So just what did we just see today? (accompanying both Gold and Silver starting their moves higher)?

MT. GOX $340.50!!!  . . . . BINGO!!!!

Notice the date on the image - 15 Feb 14.  Clif got the day right, just was off by one on the Month in his estimates.

Image attached:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bitjlo2k0c...-%20P%2029.jpg

Some interesting tidbits from Page 29 of the 20 Jan 14 Web Bot report for you to read.

Notable points:

Rash of Bankster Suicides . . . Tick (Its not over yet!  A very key name has yet to be included in the list).  According to V over @ Quayles site, 20 more to go.  Not just at JPM but a number of places including Citigroup.

By End Feb . . . a growing awareness of the Cryptos and a flood of new money into this space.  Now why all of a sudden such a flood?  Wouldn't have nothing to do with this weekend and the bank shutdowns would it?  Get ready, we've got heaps of Newies about to join us.  New money is always great for Bull Markets.  And with the DOGE being so visible right now, it'll be the first these Newies will be seeing besides Bitcoin.  "Not even a penny?  So cheap!"

13 March = Shock, Algo-techno revolt, Pinstripe $#@!ing Bankster $#@!ing Bandits no longer having support of their technical resources to keep the FRAUD going.  All PM shorting ends.

AKA . . . SILVER . . . KERFUCKING BOOM!!!

Silver Buzz . . . to grow 348% in coming 3 weeks (thats buzz, not price).  Price comes after.

$5 up days, followed by $10 up days, followed by $20 up days, most likely accompanied by $250-$300 Oil Days.  Gold?  $5K at least . . . Yes folks, this means War!!!  So strap in, the rides about to get a little bit bumpy on the third rock from the sun.

When the Banksters are done raping and pillaging folks the scheming way, they always take the planet to war . . . we should know this by now, because history has given us two previous examples as proof.  Do this test . . . go to Drudge . . . notice the increasing war talk.  Do you know whats going on right now in the Ukraine????  No?  Time for some research.

Question:  Just how valuable will these digital currencies be when they start lobbing EMP weapons in your neck of the woods?  Its something to think about in your preps peeps.  You might want to pick up an ounce or two of Argentum just in case   ;-)

13 March 14?  Probably $28 only by then, but that's still cheap for the only commodity left on the planet presently 60% lower than its 1980 high.  ;-)

Addendum:  $48K in one day, and this party is just getting started!!!  Being a Silvertard takes patience and much cussin' and spittin' at the Banksters over 3 years, but eventually the comeuppance arrives.  Let the party begin!!!!

----------


## Dianne

> Meanwhile over in those other coins, in the "real" coin category, seems both Aurum and Argentum are having a good day.  A good past couple of days in fact:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc3eri9ywr...20Feb%2014.jpg
> 
> Now why would that be?  It wouldn't be related to that which we are watching would it?  Or would it?
> 
> Or perhaps its related to this:
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com.au/jp...usiness-2014-2
> ...


*Corrupt U.S. Congress Votes Up Resolution to Support Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Opposition* 

http://larouchepac.com/node/29781

On Tuesday evening, a corrupt U.S. Congress, with no concern for anything but its re-election, voted by a margin of 383 to 2 (with 50 not voting), to endorse a resolution supporting the fascist opposition in Ukraine, and therefore a nuclear war confrontation with Russia. LaRouchePAC representatives on the scene confronted particularly the Jewish members, and found them and others either ignorant, or totally craven. The two 'no' votes were by Reps. Walter Jones (R-NC) and Thomas Massie (R-KY), both sponsors of H Res. 428, the resolution to release the suppressed 28 pages of the Congressional Inquiry report on 9/11.

See earlier report for further background.

In response to the prospective passage, LaRouche had the following to say Monday afternoon on the LaRouchePAC Policy Committee Show:

"They're talking about the elections being started now for this year in the Congress. That's what it is; that's how corrupt it is. They're putting themselves in the pocket with Nuland [Asst Secy of State], who's really a creep — actually violated every principle of our Constitution already. But there are many Nulands in there. Why? Because they're running for election; this is an election year in the House of Representatives, and that's why you find so many prostitutes are running loose up there. And I will say it; they're running as prostitutes. They just want, they're concerned about getting elected. They don't give a damn about the future of the United States; they don't even want to hear about it. And I think we ought to broadcast that clearly.

"Now, I can assure you that Obama's ready to sign that one. He's ready to push that part of the button. He's already got that in mind. He's already committed implicitly to the button. He's got the button; and if he puts his finger on the button, his thumb on the button so to speak, if he does that in this period, you and I and the rest of them are all dead! So you can say that in effect, these members of Congress who voted for a position on this thing are as good as already dead! And it shows you how smart they are."

----------


## presence



----------


## SomewhereInOz

> *Corrupt U.S. Congress Votes Up Resolution to Support Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Opposition* 
> 
> http://larouchepac.com/node/29781
> 
> On Tuesday evening, a corrupt U.S. Congress, with no concern for anything but its re-election, voted by a margin of 383 to 2 (with 50 not voting), to endorse a resolution supporting the fascist opposition in Ukraine, and therefore a nuclear war confrontation with Russia. LaRouchePAC representatives on the scene confronted particularly the Jewish members, and found them and others either ignorant, or totally craven. The two 'no' votes were by Reps. Walter Jones (R-NC) and Thomas Massie (R-KY), both sponsors of H Res. 428, the resolution to release the suppressed 28 pages of the Congressional Inquiry report on 9/11.
> 
> See earlier report for further background.
> 
> In response to the prospective passage, LaRouche had the following to say Monday afternoon on the LaRouchePAC Policy Committee Show:
> ...


Uh-Huh, Yep . . . Its Game On!

How do we stop these Psychopaths?  Not sure that its meant to be stopped.  Read your Bible!!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Not sure, but if it be me over @ RDD, I'd be showing a few more coins mined right about now to inch along that Market Cap and get people's attention here with 36 hours to go:

http://www.reddcoin.com/ipo-result/

No change since yesterday, but hell when you got nearly another 20 Billion in the bag why not show 'em?

Just sayin'

----------


## Dianne

> Not sure, but if it be me over @ RDD, I'd be showing a few more coins mined right about now to inch along that Market Cap and get people's attention here with 36 hours to go:
> 
> http://www.reddcoin.com/ipo-result/
> 
> No change since yesterday, but hell when you got nearly another 20 Billion in the bag why not show 'em?
> 
> Just sayin'


I've never figured out how to mine, so I bought some instead.   Hope that doesn't become the coin's kiss of death; as my coin luck sux.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I've never figured out how to mine, so I bought some instead.   Hope that doesn't become the coin's kiss of death; as my coin luck sux.


RDD's intro was very methodically planned I figure.  I am guessing here, but its a group of people chit-chatting over on Reddit a long time who put together the idea - Redd comes from Reddit, but its intent is to be a Social Media Tipping Coin.  Probably long time Bitcoin traders or something like that.  A programmer, a business development guy, a web developer, etc.  They know all the issues and potential pitfalls from research over the years, and had strategies in place to counter-act problems as they arrived (e.g. the attack on their coin by mining pools from the beginning - Kimoto Gravity Well solution implemented within 2 days).  They timed the block chain immaculately to fund the IPCO, take some profits themselves, and aimed to get heaps of extra coins available for Social Media Tipping, for give aways in contests, for their Faucets.  The timing on their IPCO was done very well, mathematically implemented so that the biggest contributors take the most coins, and they even probably planned this introduction to coincide with what they knew was going to be a consolidation period for BTC after the spike.

Had this come out 3rd week of January like MOON and MEOW, it would be racing.  What they didn't plan on was the DOGE doing what its done recently.  As some were commenting, Gee glad the DOGE has moved up so well, all the other coins are available at firesale prices.  So when the DOGE runs people dump everything else to jump on board.  We're still adjusting to that now.  Remember this for 20 April 14 when the next halving of the Block Reward for the DOGE occurs, and on 29 June and on 7 Sep, etc. (see below):

Block# : Dogecoin Reward
1-100,000: 0-1,000,000 Dogecoin Reward - 18 Dec 13
100,001 — 200,000: 0-500,000 Dogecoin Reward - 11 Feb 14
200,001 — 300,000: 0-250,000 Dogecoin Reward - 20 Apr 14
300,001 — 400,000: 0-125,000 Dogecoin Reward - 29 Jun 14
400,001 — 500,000: 0-62,500 Dogecoin Reward - 7 Sep 14
500,001 - 600,000: 0-31,250 Dogecoin Reward - 16 Nov 14
600,000+ : 10,000 Dogecoin Reward (flat) - 25 Jan 15

Will put a graphic together for this at some point in the near future.  Might be handy to plan some DOGE purchases in advance, or other coin purchases which should be doing well but suddenly are available cheap.

So will RDD come good?  Yep I think so, but its going to take a bit longer than anticipated.  Lets see how they play out the IPCO closing this weekend, what their new coin logo looks like and how the plan to leverage off of that to become an Altcoin household name for Social Media Tipping.

----------


## Dianne

> RDD's intro was very methodically planned I figure.  I am guessing here, but its a group of people chit-chatting over on Reddit a long time who put together the idea - Redd comes from Reddit, but its intent is to be a Social Media Tipping Coin.  Probably long time Bitcoin traders or something like that.  A programmer, a business development guy, a web developer, etc.  They know all the issues and potential pitfalls from research over the years, and had strategies in place to counter-act problems as they arrived (e.g. the attack on their coin by mining pools from the beginning - Kimoto Gravity Well solution implemented within 2 days).  They timed the block chain immaculately to fund the IPCO, take some profits themselves, and aimed to get heaps of extra coins available for Social Media Tipping, for give aways in contests, for their Faucets.  The timing on their IPCO was done very well, mathematically implemented so that the biggest contributors take the most coins, and they even probably planned this introduction to coincide with what they knew was going to be a consolidation period for BTC after the spike.
> 
> Had this come out 3rd week of January like MOON and MEOW, it would be racing.  What they didn't plan on was the DOGE doing what its done recently.  As some were commenting, Gee glad the DOGE has moved up so well, all the other coins are available at firesale prices.  So when the DOGE runs people dump everything else to jump on board.  We're still adjusting to that now.  Remember this for 20 April 14 when the next halving of the Block Reward for the DOGE occurs, and on 29 June and on 7 Sep, etc. (see below):
> 
> Block# : Dogecoin Reward
> 1-100,000: 0-1,000,000 Dogecoin Reward - 18 Dec 13
> 100,001 — 200,000: 0-500,000 Dogecoin Reward - 11 Feb 14
> 200,001 — 300,000: 0-250,000 Dogecoin Reward - 20 Apr 14
> 300,001 — 400,000: 0-125,000 Dogecoin Reward - 29 Jun 14
> ...


Interesting, I had no idea of the history behind the coin.    All I knew was you seemed to like it so I bought some lol.   The price was certainly right !!

Great stuff always happens while I'm sleeping.    BTC to little over $100. the other night.    This morning I missed btc at $500.    Did I miss the boat, or will we see $500. or less again?     Should I set a buy order.   If so, what would be a good price?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Interesting, I had no idea of the history behind the coin.    All I knew was you seemed to like it so I bought some lol.   The price was certainly right !!
> 
> Great stuff always happens while I'm sleeping.    BTC to little over $100. the other night.    This morning I missed btc at $500.    Did I miss the boat, or will we see $500. or less again?     Should I set a buy order.   If so, what would be a good price?


I don't think too many humans picked up BTC @ $102 @ BTC-e the other night, but some well honed trading bots might have, so there was probably not much you could do about it even if you were sitting there ready to hit the buy button - it happened that fast.

Yes I think we ramped up towards "Good Karma" a few hours back, kissed it @ $689 and we are now headed down the jagged "Red Dragon 2" on the path to "6 Feet Under" where you should find a more reasonable amount of prep time to purchase for $500.  Actually I am hoping $480.  Timing:  3-8 March, could be as late as 11 March all depends.  Anywhere in around that range and we're not going to quibble when its at $8000.  In fact its not going to rise all that much between then and June anyway.  Maybe $1100-$1200 in prep for the next spike.

For me, these will be short-lived BTC . . . straight into DOGE because when you understand the impact of the block reward halvings coming you will see that you will profit greater by being over there, as a buy-n-holder, at least until after the 29 June 14 Dogecoin halving.  Also I am expecting a lot of new money to come on board with this very soon as indicated earlier, and even if it doesn't Dogecoin should be at least 5 cents by 25 Jan 15.  In this case having many 10's of Millions of DOGE's will be quite advantageous.

Bitcoiners will think all thats crazy . . . but watch and see!!!  This is a runaway freight train now, and its going nowhere but massively higher!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Sent 'em a message @ 99Designs and said, just get it over with already.  This is THE ONE!

http://www.reddcoin.com/ipo-result/

All the colours of the Social Media sites, Twitter, Pinterest, Facebook, etc. etc. with a Redd coin going into the ball . . . LOVE IT!!!

Now lets rock and get this coin moving!!!  :-)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't think too many humans picked up BTC @ $102 @ BTC-e the other night, but some well honed trading bots might have, so there was probably not much you could do about it even if you were sitting there ready to hit the buy button - it happened that fast.
> 
> Yes I think we ramped up towards "Good Karma" a few hours back, kissed it @ $689 and we are now headed down the jagged "Red Dragon 2" on the path to "6 Feet Under" where you should find a more reasonable amount of prep time to purchase for $500.  Actually I am hoping $480.  Timing:  3-8 March, could be as late as 11 March all depends.  Anywhere in around that range and we're not going to quibble when its at $8000.  In fact its not going to rise all that much between then and June anyway.  Maybe $1100-$1200 in prep for the next spike.
> 
> For me, these will be short-lived BTC . . . straight into DOGE because when you understand the impact of the block reward halvings coming you will see that you will profit greater by being over there, as a buy-n-holder, at least until after the 29 June 14 Dogecoin halving.  Also I am expecting a lot of new money to come on board with this very soon as indicated earlier, and even if it doesn't Dogecoin should be at least 5 cents by 25 Jan 15.  In this case having many 10's of Millions of DOGE's will be quite advantageous.
> 
> Bitcoiners will think all thats crazy . . . but watch and see!!!  This is a runaway freight train now, and its going nowhere but massively higher!


What do you base this on?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> What do you base this on?


Volume, People adopting it as method of payment for their existing businesses worldwide, charities forming, news items outpacing all other Altcoins in a coin-by-coin comparison, a website and newsfeed for Dogecoin that blows all the other Altcoins away (if you spend a bit of time there you will see all this), mining that strips away every other Altcoin and continues at a furious pace even though people are getting half of what they were 4 days ago, 50% of Dogecoins now mined within just two months of being in existance, actually mining which is so heavy that it is to the detriment of many other coins right now, new people turning up on Reddit and saying I want to get in, how do I begin, virtually every mainstream media website discussing Dogecoin in relation to Bitcoin at this moment (none are saying "there's Bitcoin, and how about that Copperlark", and for that matter only mentioning Litecoin, Peercoin and Namecoin in passing), competitions growing on the web for innovative design ideas or development proposals, payment to be in Dogecoins.  Of course exposure at the Winter Olympics and tomorrows Bobsled event, but also other international events, charity donations, fundraisers.  I could go on and on, but have a visit of their site and you will see what I mean.

Or perhaps you were asking about the price action.  For each new block reward halving date, anticipate pressure for the price of Dogecoin to double in and around that period of time.  The miners will be needing to put in the same amount of work for only half the reward unless the price doubles.  If it doesn't double fewer will choose to continue mining it.  Thus far since 1 January, in fact as far back as 20 December, everywhere I look its nothing but Dogecoin miners, and in the troll boxes "yeah I got 50 Million DOGE's man . . . so what I got 200 Million".  Its like a status symbol amongst miners to see who has the most.  This is from the mine supply side.  From the consumption side, new investors or purchasers will hit the market, they will see Bitcoin.  For the most part they will immediately understand that they can never mine it.  Secondarily Bitcoin is pretty expensive to even just purchase for someone who is new.  Therefore most will gravitate towards the most popular Altcoin.  Litecoin @ $16 is no longer the coin to go for, sorry to say, Dogecoin is it!  Where is the price growth in Litecoin?  Particularly these last 8 weeks?  Why isn't it happening?  Why aren't they the Dogecoin right now with news spread everywhere about Litecoin this and Litecoin that.  Simple, they are just not innovating, or if they are its not in a way that's sending interest in Litecoin viral like it is for Dogecoin.

Dogecoin is not a Bitcoin and never will be.  Dogecoin fills the needs of an entirely different market segment, one that all the other Altcoins wish to fill as well, but the problem is Dogecoin is there now and soon there won't be any openings left to fill unless either coins move very fast or they aim to fulfill a very unique niche area.

I don't know, still not sure if I have answered your question, but also its a 6th sense thing.  When you see something that's headed for success you just know it, and go with it.  Why fight it?  If its a silly Shibe Meme thing that the world wants right now at this crazy turbulent time, then why fight that also?  Why waste time mining other stuff that "might" succeed.  To me its a done deal and Dogecoin is the one I am sticking with from here on out.  RDD, yeah well I have 12.5 Million of those and so we shall see.  Was contemplating jumping in on the IPCO, but nah will give it a miss and wait to see how they progress from here.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Volume, People adopting it as method of payment for their existing businesses worldwide, charities forming, news items outpacing all other Altcoins in a coin-by-coin comparison, a website and newsfeed for Dogecoin that blows all the other Altcoins away (if you spend a bit of time there you will see all this), mining that strips away every other Altcoin and continues at a furious pace even though people are getting half of what they were 4 days ago, 50% of Dogecoins now mined within just two months of being in existance, actually mining which is so heavy that it is to the detriment of many other coins right now, new people turning up on Reddit and saying I want to get in, how do I begin, virtually every mainstream media website discussing Dogecoin in relation to Bitcoin at this moment (none are saying "there's Bitcoin, and how about that Copperlark", and for that matter only mentioning Litecoin, Peercoin and Namecoin in passing), competitions growing on the web for innovative design ideas or development proposals, payment to be in Dogecoins.  Of course exposure at the Winter Olympics and tomorrows Bobsled event, but also other international events, charity donations, fundraisers.  I could go on and on, but have a visit of their site and you will see what I mean.
> 
> Or perhaps you were asking about the price action.  For each new block reward halving date, anticipate pressure for the price of Dogecoin to double in and around that period of time.  The miners will be needing to put in the same amount of work for only half the reward unless the price doubles.  If it doesn't double fewer will choose to continue mining it.  Thus far since 1 January, in fact as far back as 20 December, everywhere I look its nothing but Dogecoin miners, and in the troll boxes "yeah I got 50 Million DOGE's man . . . so what I got 200 Million".  Its like a status symbol amongst miners to see who has the most.  This is from the mine supply side.  From the consumption side, new investors or purchasers will hit the market, they will see Bitcoin.  For the most part they will immediately understand that they can never mine it.  Secondarily Bitcoin is pretty expensive to even just purchase for someone who is new.  Therefore most will gravitate towards the most popular Altcoin.  Litecoin @ $16 is no longer the coin to go for, sorry to say, Dogecoin is it!  Where is the price growth in Litecoin?  Particularly these last 8 weeks?  Why isn't it happening?  Why aren't they the Dogecoin right now with news spread everywhere about Litecoin this and Litecoin that.  Simple, they are just not innovating, or if they are its not in a way that's sending interest in Litecoin viral like it is for Dogecoin.
> 
> Dogecoin is not a Bitcoin and never will be.  Dogecoin fills the needs of an entirely different market segment, one that all the other Altcoins wish to fill as well, but the problem is Dogecoin is there now and soon there won't be any openings left to fill unless either coins move very fast or they aim to fulfill a very unique niche area.
> 
> I don't know, still not sure if I have answered your question, but also its a 6th sense thing.  When you see something that's headed for success you just know it, and go with it.  Why fight it?  If its a silly Shibe Meme thing that the world wants right now at this crazy turbulent time, then why fight that also?  Why waste time mining other stuff that "might" succeed.  To me its a done deal and Dogecoin is the one I am sticking with from here on out.  RDD, yeah well I have 12.5 Million of those and so we shall see.  Was contemplating jumping in on the IPCO, but nah will give it a miss and wait to see how they progress from here.


You've answered my question.  It's definitely an interesting contemplation.  I agree that LTC is fading with no major moves since its initial spike to $48.  Dogecoin may very well be it.  I have some BTC to play with so I might just get in on that.

Question: If you don't trust Cryptsy or CoinEX, who do you trust?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> You've answered my question.  It's definitely an interesting contemplation.  I agree that LTC is fading with no major moves since its initial spike to $48.  Dogecoin may very well be it.  I have some BTC to play with so I might just get in on that.
> 
> Question: If you don't trust Cryptsy or CoinEX, who do you trust?


If you are going to purchase DOGE, try to be patient.  As mentioned before, when I said try to get in from 120-130 and then I think it hit 131, it could well be the same this time.  I very much hope that as BTC goes down that DOGE will also.  How low?  Its too early to tell right now.  Remembering that I am not wishing to cash in on any of this till 2015 at the earliest.  Perhaps even leave it till 2017.

Crytpsy and CoinEx are probably fine for small amounts at a time.  I will probably give Bter a go next.  This is a one time exchange only.  The problem I found is when you have lots on there, and they are just sitting there, its just too damned tempting for Cryptsy to use them with a Dogecoin trading bot to trade em.  That's exactly why they couldn't send them on demand, because they were caught up in a trade.  Others on CoinEx have noticed this as well, and offered up the solution "Ticket them and tell them if they don't give you your $#@!ing Doge NOW, this is going Viral!!!"  Thats what I did and Voila . . . Instant Doge return!  None of this maybe in 4 days bull$#@!.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the Dogecoin blockchain, will work fine no matter how many coins/trades there are just as Bitcoin will with milli and micro bits.

BTW Bter is the largest Dogecoin exchange right now because China is lapping it up.  Will this continue, not sure.  But for now China's loving their Doge.  If sending a lot of BTC to China to create Dogecoin is a concern, perhaps create an account and send 0.1 BTC and test it out.  Then send 0.5 BTC, etc. until you can get it all exchanged.

----------


## Dianne

> Sent 'em a message @ 99Designs and said, just get it over with already.  This is THE ONE!
> 
> http://www.reddcoin.com/ipo-result/
> 
> All the colours of the Social Media sites, Twitter, Pinterest, Facebook, etc. etc. with a Redd coin going into the ball . . . LOVE IT!!!
> 
> Now lets rock and get this coin moving!!!  :-)


I'm doing my part.    I have to confess while I was there, I picked up some Karma also ...    I couldn't resist the 0.00000001 price.     I was also curious why Pennies (Cent) is always 0.000000001 on Cryptsy but selling upwards of 0.00000025 to 30 at Bter.     Bter won't let you transfer coins there, which is unfortunate lol ..

----------


## Dianne

> If you are going to purchase DOGE, try to be patient.  As mentioned before, when I said try to get in from 120-130 and then I think it hit 131, it could well be the same this time.  I very much hope that as BTC goes down that DOGE will also.  How low?  Its too early to tell right now.  Remembering that I am not wishing to cash in on any of this till 2015 at the earliest.  Perhaps even leave it till 2017.
> 
> Crytpsy and CoinEx are probably fine for small amounts at a time.  I will probably give Bter a go next.  This is a one time exchange only.  The problem I found is when you have lots on there, and they are just sitting there, its just too damned tempting for Cryptsy to use them with a Dogecoin trading bot to trade em.  That's exactly why they couldn't send them on demand, because they were caught up in a trade.  Others on CoinEx have noticed this as well, and offered up the solution "Ticket them and tell them if they don't give you your $#@!ing Doge NOW, this is going Viral!!!"  Thats what I did and Voila . . . Instant Doge return!  None of this maybe in 4 days bull$#@!.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the Dogecoin blockchain, will work fine no matter how many coins/trades there are just as Bitcoin will with milli and micro bits.
> 
> BTW Bter is the largest Dogecoin exchange right now because China is lapping it up.  Will this continue, not sure.  But for now China's loving their Doge.  If sending a lot of BTC to China to create Dogecoin is a concern, perhaps create an account and send 0.1 BTC and test it out.  Then send 0.5 BTC, etc. until you can get it all exchanged.


I think Cryptsy has done that with Collossus coin.   I had 100k purchased cheap that I was playing around with and they disappeared.    Cryptsy sent a tweet that the coin would be back soon, but it's been well over a week and they are still gone.

----------


## Dianne

> You've answered my question.  It's definitely an interesting contemplation.  I agree that LTC is fading with no major moves since its initial spike to $48.  Dogecoin may very well be it.  I have some BTC to play with so I might just get in on that.
> 
> Question: If you don't trust Cryptsy or CoinEX, who do you trust?


I really wonder why Doge has not been brought on to an exchange like BTC-e instead of Feathercoin, for example.    There is so much enthusiasm for the coin, you can't help but think volume in all coins would skyrocket when there are more customers at the site.    And if you could trade Doge/US Dollar .... wow that coin would really take off.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I really wonder why Doge has not been brought on to an exchange like BTC-e instead of Feathercoin, for example.    There is so much enthusiasm for the coin, you can't help but think volume in all coins would skyrocket when there are more customers at the site.    And if you could trade Doge/US Dollar .... wow that coin would really take off.


FTC and others were earlier coins, which btc-e has stuck with.  Doge is very new and it may take some time to get noticed, so maybe we'll see it added to a major exchange soon.

----------


## Dianne

> FTC and others were earlier coins, which btc-e has stuck with.  Doge is very new and it may take some time to get noticed, so maybe we'll see it added to a major exchange soon.


That would really be neat, because it seems to me new people are very enthusiastic about the coin; and new money is what the market needs at the the moment ..

----------


## kpitcher

mcxnow will be adding doge soon. They are a smaller exchange, from today's volume comparison they appear to be about 1/6th the size of btc-e. I'm a convert, I like the speed of the exchange.

----------


## muh_roads

Unobtanium is kicking ass.  Glad I got into that one.

Also in on the RDD IPCO

----------


## SomewhereInOz

The only chart and pair cross to be watching now as the Global Elite and Banksters lead us all down the Road to Perdition:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwgh4ebq6f...-Perdition.jpg

. . . and so yes Gox $340.50 was siren sounding loud and clear.  It's time . . .

Dave @ the X22 Report is always a good daily listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1y94fJ95Eo

Avoid the rush, get your money out of the banks NOW!!!

Web Bot Prediction:  Sometime in the month of April 2014, the world will wake up in shock to find that the Gold price has doubled overnight.  My guess?  $1644 to $3288.

----------


## Dianne

Where do you guys buy your gold and silver?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Unobtanium is kicking ass.  Glad I got into that one.
> 
> Also in on the RDD IPCO


42Coin is also doing well today.  Goes against my belief in the value of these rarity coins.  But you've timed a good play.  Could it be those with loads of BTC are bored right now and know Bitcoin is not going anywhere in the nearterm, so they are having a play?  If so might be time to exit at the end of the month and take some profits?  Or do you see these as a keeper long term?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Where do you guys buy your gold and silver?


eBay, Perth Mint, LCS (Local Coin Shop), Bullion Vendors online, but that was a while back.  Started gathering in the 70's and 80's actually, trips to US - harvested all the Silver halves, quarters and dimes we could find, bags of them.  They call it Junk Silver because its 90% Silver/10% Copper to give the coin strength and durability - not so soft.  It was a family tradition.  Dad figured out what was coming ages ago and Silvers value.  What he didn't know was just how critical Silver was to the Banksters schemes, to the new digital world economy and how it would be manipulated till the very end.

Recently in checking eBay, one guy who sells Perth Mint coins (100 Kooks to a box), based in Perth, he was actually selling for a set price and an ONO (Or Nearest Offer).  Never saw that before, the ONO.  This goes to show just how beaten down and hated Silver was till this week.

Be careful what you buy on eBay.  More and more fakes going around.  Junk Silver is good because its small denomination and very good for barter.  Also near impossible to make fakes.  As the price rises, the dramatic change in the price of Junk over spot will be the thing to watch first.  For the longest time it was $0.  Then in 2011 it went to $2-$3 over spot for a Kilo Bag.  Not sure what it is today, suspect its dropped, but it may be harder to find bags of these coins now.

Any bigger purchases of bullion bars, be sure to deal with a reputable bullion dealer only, and use his machine to inspect that its 99.9% Ag.  Logos imprinted on the bars showing a reputable Silver bullion manufacturer (eg. Perth Mint) will provide some assurance straight away.

Over the course of the next week and the next month, watch the premiums over spot go through the roof now that the move has started, and people figure out what's happening.

Online?  Kitco, APMEX, Gainsville Coins are three that come to mind in the US.  All large and reputable.  Any that say we can deliver in 3-4 weeks, then keep calling around till you find immediate next day shipping.

Gold?  Best to forget about it, biggest gains coming will be in Silver as it reverts back from the current 61:1 ratio to Gold to the in the ground ratio of 16:1.  Some suggest 10:1 is coming, and some even suggest its so rare now we could be looking at Parity at the height of the Panic.  Oh Hunt Brothers won't that be a glorious day!!!

When no Silver to be found, try this trick.  Local Jewellers, thickest Silver chain(s) you can find.  Yes you will pay a huge premium over Spot initially for this 925 Silver (again 92.5% Silver, 7.5% Copper), but give it a few months and it will all spend the same . . . even link by link.

Word to the wise, best be quick, there's probably very little Silver left . . . first in best dressed.

Web Bot Prediction:  By 2015 we will see stories of whole subdivisions being levelled and excavation sites established in the search for Gold, it will become that valuable!

----------


## muh_roads

> 42Coin is also doing well today.  Goes against my belief in the value of these rarity coins.  But you've timed a good play.  Could it be those with loads of BTC are bored right now and know Bitcoin is not going anywhere in the nearterm, so they are having a play?  If so might be time to exit at the end of the month and take some profits?  Or do you see these as a keeper long term?


My personal guess is that people are acquiring sha256 coins since there aren't as many of those coins as there are scrypt.  The reasoning is that all the dumb money that bought bitcoin asic's will soon switch to other sha256 coins as the btc diff keeps rising.

I don't think Unobtanium is a keeper, but I think it could reach 0.1

----------


## presence



----------


## XTreat

> Where do you guys buy your gold and silver?


I highly recommend Amagi Metals, it's owned and operated by RP people and they accept BTC as well. 

Their prices are very competitive.

----------


## muh_roads

> *Corrupt U.S. Congress Votes Up Resolution to Support Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Opposition* 
> 
> http://larouchepac.com/node/29781
> 
> On Tuesday evening, a corrupt U.S. Congress, with no concern for anything but its re-election, voted by a margin of 383 to 2 (with 50 not voting), to endorse a resolution supporting the fascist opposition in Ukraine, and therefore a nuclear war confrontation with Russia. LaRouchePAC representatives on the scene confronted particularly the Jewish members, and found them and others either ignorant, or totally craven. The two 'no' votes were by Reps. Walter Jones (R-NC) and Thomas Massie (R-KY), both sponsors of H Res. 428, the resolution to release the suppressed 28 pages of the Congressional Inquiry report on 9/11.
> 
> See earlier report for further background.
> 
> In response to the prospective passage, LaRouche had the following to say Monday afternoon on the LaRouchePAC Policy Committee Show:
> ...


Haven't these pricks made enough money off of war?  They are stirring the hornets nest to attempt another Kosovo.

$#@!ing media.  Do your job.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Haven't these pricks made enough money off of war?  They are stirring the hornets nest to attempt another Kosovo.
> 
> $#@!ing media.  Do your job.


Unfortunately the media are doing their job.  The Mainstream Lying Media Whores (Presstitutes), are directly controlled by the Banksters and Team New World Order.  They are there to hide as much of the truth as possible, and keep the Sheeple dazed, confused and dumbed down with stories of insignificance while they go about their plans.  In fact they do their job so well, you might say these sycophantic actors excel at what they do.

The first 13 mins of this video explains what is going on in the Ukraine and Russia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Lp1JU9cVU

Addemdum:  Which now shows "This Video is Private".  Shhhhhhhhhhh, don't wake up the Sheep!

Bottom line message of the video:  Russia admitting they are already at War with NATO and the US!  Prepare!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I highly recommend Amagi Metals, it's owned and operated by RP people and they accept BTC as well. 
> 
> Their prices are very competitive.


I'll vouch for them.  I bought a couple thousand worth from them and was impressed with the service.

----------


## muh_roads

What 2FA do you guys have turned on at Cryptsy?  The SMS e-mail option is jacked up.  They halfway disabled it.  You can log in with it, but you can't withdraw.

They don't answer support tickets about it.

----------


## presence



----------


## XTreat

If you do use Amagi Metals please use this link. 

http://www.amagimetals.com?acc=66f04...a7e228a89c3799

It's my affiliate link and I get 1% toward future purchases if I guide people to them.

----------


## presence



----------


## SomewhereInOz

> What 2FA do you guys have turned on at Cryptsy?  The SMS e-mail option is jacked up.  They halfway disabled it.  You can log in with it, but you can't withdraw.
> 
> They don't answer support tickets about it.


2FA @ Cryptsy?  You don't turn it on, because when it gets stuffed up you get locked out of your account for trades for days, and Cryptsy is nowhere to be found, it just irritates the heck out of you.

Again Cryptsy is a good site for trading small bits and pieces, but impossible to do serious trading there.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Hmmmm, now why would the Satellite be down hey?  ;-)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2n6pc7avjncmxrw/Bitcoin-Satellites-Down.jpg

http://blocks.wizb.it/

----------


## Petar

> 


I find that the giant penis makes your chart particularly illustrative.

----------


## Dianne

> eBay, Perth Mint, LCS (Local Coin Shop), Bullion Vendors online, but that was a while back.  Started gathering in the 70's and 80's actually, trips to US - harvested all the Silver halves, quarters and dimes we could find, bags of them.  They call it Junk Silver because its 90% Silver/10% Copper to give the coin strength and durability - not so soft.  It was a family tradition.  Dad figured out what was coming ages ago and Silvers value.  What he didn't know was just how critical Silver was to the Banksters schemes, to the new digital world economy and how it would be manipulated till the very end.
> 
> Recently in checking eBay, one guy who sells Perth Mint coins (100 Kooks to a box), based in Perth, he was actually selling for a set price and an ONO (Or Nearest Offer).  Never saw that before, the ONO.  This goes to show just how beaten down and hated Silver was till this week.
> 
> Be careful what you buy on eBay.  More and more fakes going around.  Junk Silver is good because its small denomination and very good for barter.  Also near impossible to make fakes.  As the price rises, the dramatic change in the price of Junk over spot will be the thing to watch first.  For the longest time it was $0.  Then in 2011 it went to $2-$3 over spot for a Kilo Bag.  Not sure what it is today, suspect its dropped, but it may be harder to find bags of these coins now.
> 
> Any bigger purchases of bullion bars, be sure to deal with a reputable bullion dealer only, and use his machine to inspect that its 99.9% Ag.  Logos imprinted on the bars showing a reputable Silver bullion manufacturer (eg. Perth Mint) will provide some assurance straight away.
> 
> Over the course of the next week and the next month, watch the premiums over spot go through the roof now that the move has started, and people figure out what's happening.
> ...


Great information ....    although I don't understand much of it...   would I do a search for "perth mint?"  to find that eBay seller?

----------


## Dianne

> 


I really don't understand these charts ...  maybe something wrong with my graphics..   I just see highs and lows .... but when, where, how ...   you guys have gone a little too techy; where you can't communicate like people ...    NMC to where?   and when?   I know it's just conjecture, but I don't understand your charts at all ..   wtf does rising linear support have to do with it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Great information ....    although I don't understand much of it...   would I do a search for "perth mint?"  to find that eBay seller?


At this late stage best to stick with a US Based Silver vendor who can ship immediately.  There are quite a few of them.  A Google search of "Silver Bullion" or "Silver Bullion Coins" will reveal heaps.  Perth Mint offers the advantage of great looking coins all individually contained in plastic containers.  Great for preservation.  You will find a few vendors in the US who both stock and sell them.  But ASE's (American Silver Eagles) will do just fine as well.  Anything that is 99.9% Silver are known as Silver Bullion Coins.  Canadian Maples are 99.99%, but the extra 0.01% won't make much of a difference when you go to on-sell, and Canadian Maples tend to develop a milky white film over time . . . easy enough to clean, but it can be a pain.

With eBay at any time, just search on the keywords "Silver Bullion" to find the latest.  Do the same with "Completed Listings" to see what has sold recently and at what price, to see whether your low bid stands a chance.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I really don't understand these charts ...  maybe something wrong with my graphics..   I just see highs and lows .... but when, where, how ...   you guys have gone a little too techy; where you can't communicate like people ...    NMC to where?   and when?   I know it's just conjecture, but I don't understand your charts at all ..   wtf does rising linear support have to do with it.


A logarithmic chart has been used for a reason.  He's saying watch NMC, if the pop comes, expect the ejaculation moment to be 0.007552 when you should go along with all the litter spermies and exit.  ;-)

My line shows 0.007683, but its all a matter of how the magneto-clicko thing on BitcoinWisdom goes at that moment.

NMC has been drifting down for a long time.  Check out the daily chart to get an overall picture.  So any support which is rising is significant to note, particularly with NMC which tends to launch fast.  If you go to the 30 min chart you will see this rising support began on 14 Feb (last Friday).

Its meant to be like solving a riddle, otherwise it wouldn't be any fun you see . . .

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> 2FA @ Cryptsy?  You don't turn it on, because when it gets stuffed up you get locked out of your account for trades for days, and Cryptsy is nowhere to be found, it just irritates the heck out of you.
> 
> Again Cryptsy is a good site for trading small bits and pieces, but impossible to do serious trading there.


Do you use CoinEx instead?

----------


## muh_roads

> 


LOL

Then when the market is about to tank use Hellboy.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Well hello Counterparty:

https://counterparty.co/

Where'd you come from all of a sudden?

Non-Mineable I see

And Premine - Non-mineable also, for obvious reasons.

Now how on the hell does this work.  Premine is all pre-mined (100%) and as a result Non-mineable - a Scrypt coin nontheless. So they come on the Market Cap list and set a price on their own (one would presume) of $1.22, but all of a sudden the 24 hour change is showing as +7468.09%, and a Market Cap of $608,598.  Huh?  How does that work?

Then there's Reddcoin which is heavily pre-mined we know but only to 30%ish.  The IPCO just ended, did well at 168.8 BTC, and its still stuck at 5 Satoshi's.

I'm confused!

----------


## muh_roads

Sounds like Mastercoin.  Proof of burn.  strange.

----------


## squarepusher

> 


what did this thread just turn into "o

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Do you use CoinEx instead?


No just Cryptsy.  All that are left there are small bits and pieces of coins mined over time.  Will wait till the time is right, cash them into BTC or DOGE and bring them home.

CoinEx, just visit for the TrollBox.  99% of the discussion is garbage, but the odd tidbit is good.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Ever notice how when there is a major $#@! storm about to brew somewhere on planet earth, this guy shows up first:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/va5wh3m993...%20Winkler.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuq3np4m6zE

First he played the role of Ahmadinajad of Iran, then last August it was off to Syria to stir up the rebels in a phoney chemical attack.  That didn't work, so now its off to the Ukraine.

This piece of garbage "Henry Winkler" needs to be outed as the New World Order piece of $#@! that he is.

. . . now this is something your not going to learn on your 6 O'Clock News from some "bought and paid for" Mainstream Media Presstitute is it?

Oh Happy Days!

wellaware1.com or DallasGoldBug on YouTube.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwzm4wflBMM

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> A logarithmic chart has been used for a reason.  He's saying watch NMC, if the pop comes, expect the ejaculation moment to be 0.007552 when you should go along with all the litter spermies and exit.  ;-)
> 
> My line shows 0.007683, but its all a matter of how the magneto-clicko thing on BitcoinWisdom goes at that moment.
> 
> NMC has been drifting down for a long time.  Check out the daily chart to get an overall picture.  So any support which is rising is significant to note, particularly with NMC which tends to launch fast.  If you go to the 30 min chart you will see this rising support began on 14 Feb (last Friday).
> 
> Its meant to be like solving a riddle, otherwise it wouldn't be any fun you see . . .


Thankfully, you always seem to be able to explain what pres is saying in plain enough terms.  I can pretty much understand what he's saying, but it still gets me sometimes.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cpe6iow99q93o1k/TRC.jpg

I'd be happy to be holding 0.0000001 of a TRC if this were true.  This isn't a fat finger, its a 500 pound Sumo Wrestler body slamming the keyboard.  LOL  :-)

----------


## muh_roads

> No just Cryptsy.  All that are left there are small bits and pieces of coins mined over time.  Will wait till the time is right, cash them into BTC or DOGE and bring them home.
> 
> CoinEx, just visit for the TrollBox.  99% of the discussion is garbage, but the odd tidbit is good.


Can't sign up for CoinEx.  Just doesn't want to work.  Errors.

----------


## nayjevin

Taking profits from the charity coin is valuing your savings over the goodwill of your tellow earthlings.  Or you are racist or you hate bobsledding.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Taking profits from the charity coin is valuing your savings over the goodwill of your tellow earthlings.  Or you are racist or you hate bobsledding.


That's right.  Always remember and don't ever forget that profits = evil.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

First Chart, lets call it Exhibit A

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sktfqribjw...xhibit%20A.jpg

Definitions

CL - Consolidation Low - that low which usually follows approximately 2 months after a BTC price spike, the one we are presently watching for

PLL - Pre Launch Low - that low which usually happens just prior to a given BTC price spike

As the Gox chart has gone a bit funky on us of late, the only other exchange with long term data is Bitstamp so lets use it.

In Exhibit A first notice its plotted against a logarithmic scale.  Next notice that the CL and PLL pink and green circles are approximately 8 months apart.  Give or take a few weeks it generally holds true.

At Bitstamp, as will be seen more clearly in a moment, when it gets to $500 in a few weeks time, try not to be too eager to buy as you may just find some down at $400.

Notice Exhibit A is a 3 Day chart.

At the bottom take note of the Stochastic RSI.  We are down pretty low right now, but it should trudge along for another couple of weeks down at those levels, and when you see it turn up this will be your signal we have hit the BTC price low.  Again, watch for a $400 potential on Bitstamp.  Could be $420, $430 who knows.

OK so now notice the difference between CL and PLL in any given cycle.  The point being that yes the BTC price rises, but the price rise is usually not that dramatic over say 4 months after reaching a CL.

Also the Pre Launch Low (PLL) price spike down.  Notice how as we go along this spike down is increasing in magnitude, and come June it should be even more dramatic.  This is the perfect indicator for us to make sure we are onboard with BTC for the ride up at that point.

OK so enter Exhibit B

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6vy37p2zmy...Exibit%20B.jpg

This chart is simply the same chart, but now represented in Linear Scale (lines go parabolic curvy), screen captured and taken over to Illy to add some annotations.  Notice how the $400 number is screaming at us now.

Another CL indicator on the 3 Day chart?  Watch the Volume.  When we see our first green bar over 3 Days we will know the bottom is/was in.

Now notice the price rise difference between CL3 and PLL3 . . . pretty meagre when considering just how high the next move up should be.

OK Stan so whats your Plan B?

New capital you may be planning to pump into BTC?  Go Gold/Silver instead.  Gold is OK, but Silver is better.  We know the prices are starting to move, but before you do anything, give it a couple of trading days to confirm its really happening and not yet another fake out.

Mid-Feb 2014 until early June 2014 is a very long time to see just how Silver moves.  In fact by June we should be easily back above $40.  Should the Crazies in Washington, Wall Street and London (the WWL Loonies lets call them) pull off any of the following, Gold and Silver will be a better place to be anyway:

1.  Cyber-Attack Bank Shutdown and Bankster Bail-ins in all Western Nations (the legislation is in place everywhere, just needs a trigger to happen)
2.  False Flag Nuke Event - Next 911
3.  Iranian EMP attack on US or are those 3 Iranian warships headed off the Coast of the US just bluff and bluster? - probably the latter and to my way of thinking a diversion for the Sheeple for what is coming in the Ukraine.
4.  Major Stock Market Crash
5.  Dollar Devaluation - kinda goes along with #1
6.  An out of the blue North Korean Nuke strike?  South Korea?  Japan?
7.  Wide scale CISPA implementation and severe restriction of the Internet, probably will come only AFTER one of the above happens - Bitcoin Ouch!
8.  Heaven forbid the start of World War 3, but yeah that's where this is all headed as indicated before
9. Implementation of Martial Law in the US, goes with a bunch of the ones above
10.  Anything else imaginable to mess up Bitcoin

Now if they are going to do any of the preceeding, watch for the WWL Loonie Saturnic Worshipping (read Satanic Worshipping) high holy days of Spring Equinox (21 March 14), their famous other 911 date (20 April 14 - Hitlers Birthday, Deep Water Horizon Explosion and Non-Accident) and of course their favourite one May Day - 1 May 14 (most recently the fake boogeyman OBL fake capture and fake burial at sea and BHO fake birth certificate release in 2011 . . . and oh how could I forget, the very "real" 2011 Silver high of $48 and the beginning of the 3 year Silver Slam).  Finally, 22.2.2014 = 13 in Sochi and the 22nd Rothschild Winter Olympic Games (day before closing ceremonies).  Gives Henry Winkler enough time to pack his bags and get back Stateside after stirring the pot doesn't it.  ;-)

*Addendum:  When people like Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon and the rest tell us they are "Doing God's Work", its true, they are not lying, they are actually doing God's work or what they perceive as work for their God.  But you see, most miss the point in the translation of their message entirely, because you see these $#@!ers Worship Satan, that's who their God is!  And alas are you getting it yet why Silver is called the Devils Metal and why it had to be suppressed above all else until the very end? :-)*

OK so lets assume that in the next 4 months absolutely none of the above happens (which I find incredibly hard to fathom especially since JPM has now gone long on the metals, the Real Estate Bubble Pop Part 2 is about to begin (watch Canada more than the US this time around), developing world economies are breaking down left and right (Argentina, Venezuela, etc. etc.), Japan's markets are taking a dive and a whole slew of other indicators going on right now).  Well by early June you will have missed what could potentially be a 60-75% rise on your perfectly timed $400 Bitcoins bought on 3 March or 8 March or 11 March or 15 March.  In late May/Early June you then look to ditch your Gold and Silver and buy Bitcoin at the PLL3 price spike bottom, and enjoy that ride up next.  Of course if any of the major events above do happen, you scrub the Bitcoin idea and stick with Silver.

Both Gold and Silver are also in long term Bull Markets, and as with all Bull Markets these are wild rides, expect that with massive moves up there will be massive moves down, especially with the Devils Metal Silver.  For example when Silver breaks $50 it may well run to $75, but then don't be surprised if all of a sudden its back down to $45 and on and on all the way up till its over-value point and you ditch it for Gold long term as an inheritance for the Grand-Kiddies.  In the near term I don't expect further massive moves down for Silver because we have already had those for 3 years, and all the signals are now in that its up from here.

Reasonable price for Silver come 1 June?  $40 (+86%)

Optimistic price for Silver come 1 June?  $75 (+348%)

Any of major 1-10 events above happens prior to 1 June?  $200 minimum (+4300%)

Anyway over to you with this info to do with as you may.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> First Chart, lets call it Exhibit A
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sktfqribjw...xhibit%20A.jpg
> 
> Definitions
> 
> CL - Consolidation Low - that low which usually follows approximately 2 months after a BTC price spike, the one we are presently watching for
> 
> PLL - Pre Launch Low - that low which usually happens just prior to a given BTC price spike
> ...


In that case, perfect, because I have both, but I'm really not going to hold my breath for any of those major events just yet.  Numbers 2 and 4 are the only ones that have a reasonable chance of happening in my mind.  Waiting for a truly big event, however, has proven to be futile for a while.  It may be quite some time before we hit hyper-inflation.  Who knows; by the time it does, we may be focused on something completely different and forget about the dollar.  Expecting anything to change drastically would be missing the boat, IMO, because in order to maintain control, TPTB must tread carefully and ensure that there is as little change as possible.

----------


## Dianne

You guys remind me of living with Jamie Dimon, or is it Demon?       You guys spout all kinds of chit, and I have no clue what you are talking about ..    Is there any such thing anymore as 2 + 2 = 4?      So tomorrow, the charts say we will sink to 500., or tomorrow the charts say we will reach $900. ?

I'm just curious ...   What is this new language that leaves English behind?     I

----------


## torchbearer

> I'm just curious ...   What is this new language that leaves English behind?


jargon.
If I were to talk shop about computers, people, in general, have no idea what i'm talking about- unless they are also in the industry.
Same with most professions.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> jargon.
> If I were to talk shop about computers, people, in general, have no idea what i'm talking about- unless they are also in the industry.
> Same with most professions.


+rep

Jargon ties people together.  If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Interesting developments on the Ripple front:


http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-found...tcoin-project/


http://www.coindesk.com/bullion-exch...hysical-world/

----------


## lotsOfCake

Trollbox has rumors of dogecoin forking, but I don't see it in the price chart.

----------


## lotsOfCake

Ok there's the drop...

Edit: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc
Doesn't look so bad.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Trollbox has rumors of dogecoin forking, but I don't see it in the price chart.


Apparently if you are mining on a fork, the coins you mine are worthless.

Been mining DOGE consistently for the past 10 days and the rate of acquisition has been a consistent 35,000/coins a day.  In the past 5-6 hours haven't noticed anything different and mined coins keep arriving.  So if there was a fork its not apparent at this end at least.

At Multipool however we were at one stage recently dropped from a high before the block reward halving of 22 GHash/sec down to 13 GHash/sec.  Many miners were onto other coins after the block reward halving.

Now all of a sudden we are back up to 20.3 GHash/sec, close to the old peak.  Not sure what's caused them to come back, but thats a pretty significant return to Doge.  Doge now over 51 Billion mined so its not slowing much on that front either.

Price drop?  Hoping it will drop a lot further from here as we approach the end of Feb so I can put some more Fiat into it.  5.5 Million mined now, hoping to get it up to 7 Million by the next block reward halving which should be around 20 April, and then add another 3 Million via fiat.  Happy then to sit tight on it till the end of 2014, and then move onto mining another coin.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> At Multipool however we were at one stage recently dropped from a high before the block reward halving of 22 GHash/sec down to 13 GHash/sec.  Many miners were onto other coins after the block reward halving.


I was watching that, seemed the "main" scrypt pool of multipool switched to mining LOT for a short while.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I was watching that, seemed the "main" scrypt pool of multipool switched to mining LOT for a short while.


Yes LOT and TIPS and DGC.  Even LTC became the most profitable coin to mine for a few hours once which surprised me.  But on the whole DOGE still occupies top spot a lot or is always in the top 5

----------


## lotsOfCake

> Yes LOT and TIPS and DGC.  Even LTC became the most profitable coin to mine for a few hours once which surprised me.  But on the whole DOGE still occupies top spot a lot or is always in the top 5


Oh and, just a TIP (if you will forgive the pun), there's a hardfork coming for fedoracoin as they attempt to introduce a mixing feature into the client (in a few hours). Probably the hardfork happens X blocks after the update. The TIPS/LTC price has been stable for a while. We will see what happens.

Doge looks like its back to being a single chain. I'm guessing it will go back to slightly-below-normal (220 ish, * 10e-8)

----------


## lotsOfCake

For those who care;
Fedoracoin (a.k.a. TIPS) was basically a clone of DOGE, with 5 times the amount of coins, launched fairly, been running a few months. It has an improvement in the difficulty retargetting (is more stable). As it was launched on coinedup it had a ridiculous price, but dropped quickly, and after a while they removed the "TIPS/BTC" pair as the price dropped below the lowest digit, 0.00000001. TIPS/LTC remained and they added TIPS/DOGE. At that time it was maybe 1/20th of current price. It had another 3x bubble around the time it was added to Cryptsy. It then dropped (from 94 ish) to its current 44 ish. 

I'm expecting a bubble as the new feature gets some publicity. Either that, or someone else will steal the feature and create a new coin. Let's see what happens :->

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> For those who care;
> Fedoracoin (a.k.a. TIPS) was basically a clone of DOGE, with 5 times the amount of coins, launched fairly, been running a few months. It has an improvement in the difficulty retargetting (is more stable). As it was launched on coinedup it had a ridiculous price, but dropped quickly, and after a while they removed the "TIPS/BTC" pair as the price dropped below the lowest digit, 0.00000001. TIPS/LTC remained and they added TIPS/DOGE. At that time it was maybe 1/20th of current price. It had another 3x bubble around the time it was added to Cryptsy. It then dropped (from 94 ish) to its current 44 ish. 
> 
> I'm expecting a bubble as the new feature gets some publicity. Either that, or someone else will steal the feature and create a new coin. Let's see what happens :->


Thanks for the TIP on TIPS.  So many coins to try to track its hard to know about them all now.

Two more additions today . . . Beecoin and Dopecoin

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Lively discussion on the Hedge right now:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...tating-bullion

Of course they pull out the Gox chart

Anyway its always fun to read the rolling commentary.

----------


## lotsOfCake

My wild guess:

One of these days, someone is going to be able to track the stolen coins from mtgox on blockchain. 
Then they will get an estimate on how many coins were stolen and how many are left.....
Then there will be drama.

----------


## presence

02-05-2014 01:44 AM02-05-2014 01:44 AM


> GET YOUR FUNDS THE $#@! OUT OF MT GOX NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
> litepresenceJUST RECIEVED EMAIL FROM VERY TRUSTED FRIEND W/ INSIDE INFO



^^^

*PRICE WAS $920/BTC* at the time of posting back on page 20 of this thread

here's the timestamped link:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5404255



....well that couldn't have been more true!

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hj8l1aidjq...20Feb%2014.jpg

Mine a bunch, reveal them slowly (30% now showing - who's going to take the time to examine the blockchain anyway?), gradual rise, develop Social Media usage, pay off IPCO investors, don't suffer the MOON/MEOW blast and then no substance burnout, don't make investors wish they never invested.  Smart!

Just guessing here, but heck if it works go for it, I've got time.  This is not a get rich quick scheme, this was just 10 Days mining in February 2014 when the pickings were easy and onto the next one  ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> 


https://www.dropbox.com/s/f24vf9szvp...20Feb%2014.jpg

I think Ezra's got it pegged:

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/

Clif sums up Gox's woes in his latest Wujo:

http://www.halfpasthuman.com/audio/w...2142014btc.mp3

Too much growth, too ill-equiped to handle it.

The winner here? Jed McCaleb who invented the Magic: The Game Online eXchange and was smart enough 2 years ago to understand his technical backend could never handle exponential growth and ditch it and move onto bigger and better things such as Ripple.

Perhaps its time for Gox to return to trading Magic Gathering Cards.

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

> Lively discussion on the Hedge right now:
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...tating-bullion
> 
> Of course they pull out the Gox chart
> 
> Anyway its always fun to read the rolling commentary.


I was reading this a bit last night. Tyler draws quite the crowd, doesn't he? I had to stop--the anger and ignorance was too palpable.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I was reading this a bit last night. Tyler draws quite the crowd, doesn't he? I had to stop--the anger and ignorance was too palpable.


Tyler Durden?  Who is Tyler Durden anyway?  Just like who is Satoshi Nakamoto?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJz1wxjxbwQ

1999 film . . . end of the clip, buildings go bye bye.  Nice lean on that left one don't you think?  ;-)

So they are alluding to Bitcoin's rollover as attributable to Gold's sudden rise?

Perhaps it would have been more apropos to chart the Bankster Suicide tally to Golds sudden rise, don't you think?

Speaking of "Rollover", a review of this 1981 flick is always fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPYLJoq_40Y

No coincidence films were produced and introduced when they were.  No coincidence whatsoever!

"Bullion, Grab What You Can Get!   Alright let's hit it . . . . and Pray"

. . . and Gold just went over $2000 . . . by tonight that will be cheap!  ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

OK gently gently Reddcoin, rise slowly from here.  If you overheat, might need to sell and buy back in another day.

10 days mining now 1.25 BTC which is kinda break even.  Will need to see 7-8 BTC before I get too excited.

Considering the larger IPCO investors picked them up for 2.3 - 2.5 Satoshi's each its not a bad start.

Just keep an eye on the Reddcoin website for new ideas for application/use of Reddcoins.

Today they've bumped up their CoinJokes page:

http://coinjokes.cravegig.com/

which is ok, but they are going to need a whole lot more than that to be successful in building a community around Reddcoin.  This only appeals to miners and early adopters having a play.

Now get into the Facebook API, and exploit the crap out it and then we might just see that 200 Satoshi number (25 BTC) we are looking for.

Addendum:

14 Satoshi's = $2.5 Million Market Cap = 24th spot on the charts.  But right now just 40th spot.  A clever strategy, just might work.  For should the price fall, you pump up the numbers to maintain a high viz position.  In other words these guys are not just looking for a one-hit wonder, they want their coin to stick around a while and succeed.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I thought just a few months ago these banks said Gold was dead and going nowhere but down?  Wasn't sub-$1000 being hinted at?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...-further-gains

Oh that's right Soros is now 80% long Gold and with the rest he's shorting the S&P to tune of $1.5 Billion, same same Buffett . . . aka expect a market crash!

Funny how these New World Order insiders always seem to know the precise moment when to switch eh?

Buffett = Trading Brilliance = Bull $#@!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgEqyuTOWAc

Looks a legitimate suicide from the image.  Just what is it these guys know is coming?  It's gotta be pretty damned big!

V, Quayle & the Haggmanns discuss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbdfbBwI-l0

----------


## presence



----------


## SomewhereInOz

Thing is, do you really want to be chasing Bitcoin/Altcoins come April, and not be suitably prepped in the PM's when all the US Dollars around the planet come flooding back home and are devalued 80% or perhaps near worthless.

That's partly why these guys are jumping, basically they know times nearly up:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5koiuaez8...%20Unbound.jpg

80 Crossed:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/erjdfh8bd1...%20Crossed.jpg

70 is where we see the Cliff Dive

By my reckoning there's probably 20-25 days left to move on Silver, after that good luck finding any.

I like the first comment in this one:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...s-3-month-high

$22 and change . . . pffffft, you ain't seen nothing yet!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thing is, do you really want to be chasing Bitcoin/Altcoins come April, and not be suitably prepped in the PM's when all the US Dollars around the planet come flooding back home and are devalued 80% or perhaps near worthless.
> 
> That's partly why these guys are jumping, basically they know times nearly up:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5koiuaez8...%20Unbound.jpg
> 
> 80 Crossed:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/erjdfh8bd1...%20Crossed.jpg
> ...


If/when the dollar devalues, I would think that would positively affect BTC as well, not just PMs.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Pres, do you think LTC/BTC is a good play right now?

----------


## presence

> Pres, do you think LTC/BTC is a good play right now?


Very tough market to call on technical analysis.   Potential Gox bankruptcy throws huge wrench in things.  

I have a bot working PPCUSD for me.  


Last April when gox took its second leg down after "purgatory" to "six feet under"   LTC/BTC went to the moon at the same time.  So I'm betting blue chip alts like NMC PPC LTC are better bet than BTC right now if gox goes down.

It would seem that those coins are easier to "prop up" as BTC collapses and there are major players w/ large stakes.  davidpate has had 500,000 PPC buy order at 3.1 on the books for a week now.  

safest non "day trading" bet is hedge right now.   some combo of PPC LTC NMC  50/50 to USD.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Very tough market to call on technical analysis.   Potential Gox bankruptcy throws huge wrench in things.  
> 
> I have a bot working PPCUSD for me.  
> 
> 
> Last April when gox took its second leg down after "purgatory" to "six feet under"   LTC/BTC went to the moon at the same time.  So I'm betting blue chip alts like NMC PPC LTC are better bet than BTC right now if gox goes down.
> 
> It would seem that those coins are easier to "prop up" as BTC collapses and there are major players w/ large stakes.  davidpate has had 500,000 PPC buy order at 3.1 on the books for a week now.  
> 
> safest non "day trading" bet is hedge right now.   some combo of PPC LTC NMC  50/50 to USD.


Do you think BTC still hasn't bottomed yet?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Probably just another few days of this before the bullets start flying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm3bzr61dHk

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eo5bgixpdm...20Feb%2014.jpg

Just too much resistance and too many miners.

----------


## muh_roads

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eo5bgixpdm...20Feb%2014.jpg
> 
> Just too much resistance and too many miners.


Yeah I'm losing my ass on that $#@!ing Doge.  lol

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Yeah I'm losing my ass on that $#@!ing Doge.  lol


Patience

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/19gj1i51gw...Terrorists.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM

----------


## KCIndy

> Funny how these New World Order insiders always seem to know the precise moment when to switch eh?
> 
> Buffett = Trading Brilliance = Bull $#@!!





It's not a coincidence, my friend.  It's known as the Golden Rule.



_"He who has the gold gets to make the rules."_

----------


## muh_roads

> Patience


Yep.  Plan on buying more.

The 10 fold Unobtanium increase more than makes up for the Doge loss.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> It's not a coincidence, my friend.  It's known as the Golden Rule.
> 
> _"He who has the gold gets to make the rules."_


Indeed this old adage is true.

So where to from here?  Now that they've enabled us with the knowledge to know exactly what is going on (e.g. the internet) and what the grand theft plan is - raid bank accounts, retirement accounts, the lot.  Well from here there are only 2 viable options left:

1. Face scenes everywhere like we presently see happening today in Kiev, Bangkok, Caracas, Buenos Aires, Rome, etc; or

2. They nuke the hell out of the joint and run to their hidey holes (hint:  notice the meat recalls, the velvetta cheese shortages (rats love their cheese you see), and all kinds of other items suddenly not making it to the store shelves - why?  Its headed to their bunkers thats why.  Such quickly perishable items, you don't store 3 years out, you nab it just before you need it).

Nope not enough troops in the Police State to handle #1.  My bet is #2 is the plan because these psychopaths are not going to give up their power.

Once the financial collapse begins, this will move very quickly and decisively in that direction.

Besides which, they are good sports and have already told us just what we need to be doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB5ljHMzFSU

----------


## muh_roads

> 


You are creative, I'll give ya that.  How are your red dragon bots holding up?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Yep.  Plan on buying more.
> 
> The 10 fold Unobtanium increase more than makes up for the Doge loss.


This could be the buy point.  The Doge seems to be doing a small consolidation at the moment, but if it turns up through 240 with some strength it could well be headed back to test 300 again.  Will have to see how the day unfolds.

I see UNO is taking a short breather too.  Hopefully its next move will also be back to testing its old highs as well.

----------


## presence

> You are creative, I'll give ya that.  How are your red dragon bots holding up?


I've moved on... I have a new architecture out now... senses bull/bear market... shorts whenever oversold or overbought... and puts you on the right side of bull/bear long.  I have 16 copies sold last I checked.  My people seem happy.  I've gotten a few tips.

----------


## amonasro

Presence, I'm curious to know your experience in financial markets and TA. As a chartist, you've been more accurate than anybody I've seen so far in the community. We are lucky to have you here, even if you are a time traveler from the future. I'm currently training myself in TA to have a better working knowledge of how to read the markets. Any advice or reading materials to recommend a newcomer?

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## SomewhereInOz

LOL, Stop that

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/19gj1i51gw...Terrorists.jpg
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM


Add this one to the mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jbKRgWWml4

"Spring" means jump, but you get the picture.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I didn't think this would start till Mid-March:

http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/201...d-2596444.html

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I didn't think this would start till Mid-March:
> 
> http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/201...d-2596444.html


Hmmm... I am always suspect of an article with such poor grammar.  Do you have another source?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Hmmm... I am always suspect of an article with such poor grammar.  Do you have another source?


17:00 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEG9cCgtRA

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Does anyone know what's going on with Mt Gox?  Why does it seem like they never go below 261 anymore?

----------


## amonasro

> Does anyone know what's going on with Mt Gox?  Why does it seem like they never go below 261 anymore?


Massive bid wall and not enough sell pressure to get over it. Someone is buying up lots of cheap coins, perhaps frontrunning the impending rally (if they start allowing withdrawals).

----------


## presence

> Presence, I'm curious to know your experience in financial markets and TA. As a chartist, you've been more accurate than anybody I've seen so far in the community. We are lucky to have you here, even if you are a time traveler from the future. I'm currently training myself in TA to have a better working knowledge of how to read the markets. Any advice or reading materials to recommend a newcomer?



I have a degree in management, and was close to completing minors in finance, psychology, and mathematics.  Other than that I'm self taught.  I traded the .com bubble and learned some huge painful lessons when the realestate bubble burst which tempers the bull in my soul.  

investopedia is a great source also stockcharts.com; check out users "perfectstockalert.com" and "finvidsdotcom" on youtube.

get a sense of fib retracements, "head and shoulders" "scallops" "cup and handle" "dawn bolton smith 5-15-30" ; learn what your MACD and RSI are telling you.  


ALWAYS keep track of where you are on 12h and 3d scale.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpajlgzans...-20-Feb-14.jpg

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest


Fires coming soon around the encampment at Mt. Gox like Kiev?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5b0xc1q8jm...Cheap-Doge.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Sean David Morton reviews Bankster Suicides with guest Agent Wayne, one of V's sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0AsXacbwrQ

Gives an idea of what is really going on, and why we are at the end of the Fiat Currency Ponzi Scheme.  The next 60 days will be the most significant financial period in not just our lives, but in the last 100 years.  Have a listen.

Addendum:  Brings even more plausibility that an event before the end of the Olympics is very possible.  Just 3 days to go so we shall see.

Addendum #2:  If more evidence is required before grabbing as many PM's as you can ASAP not sure if it is possible to come up with it.  In this duel between the R & R clans the number one option for the little guy -> Silver!

Addendum #3: Thinking about it more, it makes perfect sense why the Anglo-American Empire would choose this time (during the Olympics) to really stir the pot in the Ukraine.  The world spotlight is on Putin and for now he is caught.  But give it a week or two and it will be a different story.  It's been over a year since Bandar Bush threatened Putin personally with an incident at his Olympics, and as the Saudi Oil Fields are the lynchpin to continuing US Hegemony, I'd keep a close eye on news from that area.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ji5q3hrbu...-New-Chart.jpg

Some good reading here on the 80/20 rule for the Stochastic RSI:

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...ators:stochrsi

while its down under 20 like it is now for Bitstamp, we will know that its over when both the green and yellow lines pass above 20.  The 1-Hour chart is good for moves like this because it gives a good view of the last 10 days or so.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...atch-live.html

----------


## SomewhereInOz

I see New World Order Region #1 is having another fine "in your face" ceremonial day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66n-Ig3DeYU

LOL, "a despot wants to cling to power . . ." . . . that's the (des)pot calling the kettle black eh?

So just who is that despot Assad anyway?  Normalcy Bias Test Time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN87_l26-_o

Wakey, Wakey!!!!!!

Check out that putty on Assad, no human looks like that.  FFS its nearly as bad a cosmetic job as on McCain!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1rb3c5m7f...Low-%24555.jpg

Why not . . . goes quite nicely with "666"  ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Sweet Jesus shift the planets and bring the New Moon early before we see a $2 handle on this one!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lwljpi3m3y...y-New-Moon.jpg

When you are having thoughts of playing NMC, always listen to this song first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUESBKlj7Hw

NMC = New Moon Catapult  :-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Seeing as this is Post #911 on this thread, what a timely moment to introduce this film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-klNO-AjW6M

So sit back, grab some popcorn and snacks, set aside a couple of hours and learn what the centuries old agenda has always been and which is now playing out before our very eyes.

Total Global Enslavement!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...e-saudi-arabia

Skip to 12:40 to find out who it really is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kCdU7f7_hg

Ah hell, why not just watch the whole thing, as a warm up to figure out who they have used as rebel leaders currently stirring up $#@! in the Ukraine.

Feeling Hoodwinked yet?  ;-)

----------


## newbitech

TA - time frames = etch-a-sketch prognostication.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> TA - time frames = etch-a-sketch prognostication.


So first you talk $#@! about BTC non-stop, and now you've decided to dump on TA, too?  What is the purpose of all your hate?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

So I take it now that Mt. Gox is staring death in the face, it's starting to affect the rest of the market?  Not that it hasn't already, but it seems inevitable now.  I pretty much knew that once the prices went below that $261 buy wall, it was game over.  It looks like it's finally happening.  I just hope we get this over with quick.

----------


## brooks009

Anyone else come to this thread (The Litepresence Report on Cryptocurrency) to read updates from Litepresence only to find spam from SomewhereInOz? Cant we just split these threads?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> So I take it now that Mt. Gox is staring death in the face, it's starting to affect the rest of the market?  Not that it hasn't already, but it seems inevitable now.  I pretty much knew that once the prices went below that $261 buy wall, it was game over.  It looks like it's finally happening.  I just hope we get this over with quick.




https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5l9emxept...in-the-box.jpg


My Doge-in-the-box just stirred from amongst the packing peanuts and said "Woof, 28 Feb, 28 Feb"  ;-)

----------


## XTreat

> Anyone else come to this thread (The Litepresence Report on Cryptocurrency) to read updates from Litepresence only to find spam from SomewhereInOz? Cant we just split these threads?


I would like the topic to at least stick to crypto charts, prognostications, and updates.

----------


## brooks009

> I would like the topic to at least stick to crypto charts, prognostications, and updates.


Agreed

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Anyone else come to this thread (The Litepresence Report on Cryptocurrency) to read updates from Litepresence only to find spam from SomewhereInOz? Cant we just split these threads?


Actually, I rather like having them both in the same thread.  I don't see SomeWhereInOz's comments as spam because he does offer interesting insights.

I will admit I pay little attention to all the other NWO stuff, even though I'm a believer, but I still like having him around, even if it's just so I can imagine him saying all that stuff in an Australian accent.

----------


## Dianne

Gox is at $130.    Will we drop that low on the other exchanges?

----------


## Dianne

> Actually, I rather like having them both in the same thread.  I don't see SomeWhereInOz's comments as spam because he does offer interesting insights.
> 
> I will admit I pay little attention to all the other NWO stuff, even though I'm a believer, but I still like having him around, even if it's just so I can imagine him saying all that stuff in an Australian accent.


I agree ..   Oz just discussing the effect world events have on fiat and alt. currencies.    What blows my mind are the charts I never understand lolol ....

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Gox is at $130.    Will we drop that low on the other exchanges?


The answer is an almost affirmative no.  The only reason I say almost is because nothing is certain now.  It always carries risk, but Gox is only going that low now because nobody wants to associate with Gox anymore.  Pretty soon it will be forced to shut down because it can't keep up with the rest of the market and is only dragging it down.  BTC consumers will shake Gox off like a bad case of fleas.  When that happens, the rest of the market will be free of its influence and I believe we will see a modest rise at first.  After that is anyone's guess.

----------


## Dianne

I think Gox is just trying to avoid prosecution by delivering all the btc they owe to their clients before they shut down; but instead of the real market value they will get away with paying $100. or so per btc which is their market value.    So people who bought in around $1,000. per will walk away with 100. per.

----------


## 69360

I've stayed out of BTC specualtion so far. 

Gox is currently $126

It is really tempting to speculate in gox btc right now. 500%  profit if gox makes people whole is nothing to laugh at. 

I wonder if it's going sub $100?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think Gox is just trying to avoid prosecution by delivering all the btc they owe to their clients before they shut down; but instead of the real market value they will get away with paying $100. or so per btc which is their market value.    So people who bought in around $1,000. per will walk away with 100. per.


Unless the Gox team is doing the actual trading, I don't see how they could manually drive the prices down like that.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've stayed out of BTC specualtion so far. 
> 
> Gox is currently $126
> 
> It is really tempting to speculate in gox btc right now. 500%  profit if gox makes people whole is nothing to laugh at. 
> 
> I wonder if it's going sub $100?


By the looks of it, it's going to zero and Gox will no longer exist pretty soon.

----------


## 69360

> By the looks of it, it's going to zero and Gox will no longer exist pretty soon.


Possibly, probably, but if not speculators buying up gox btc are going to make a lot of money.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Possibly, probably, but if not speculators buying up gox btc are going to make a lot of money.


Yes, an insane amount.

For the record, though, it's not a risk worth taking, IMHO.

----------


## Dianne

> By the looks of it, it's going to zero and Gox will no longer exist pretty soon.


That's what it looks like to me...   In the past, Gox was usually $100. per btc higher than the other exchanges.    Now they are $400. per btc below the other exchanges.     Looks like they are attempting the great escape, leaving the scene owing no one.

----------


## Dianne

> Yes, an insane amount.
> 
> For the record, though, it's not a risk worth taking, IMHO.


I'm not sure why people are still buying at Gox.   You can't withdraw btc or fiat from the site.     If it sounds too good to be true,  it's not true.

----------


## 69360

> I'm not sure why people are still buying at Gox.   You can't withdraw btc or fiat from the site.     If it sounds too good to be true,  it's not true.


Speculation. Pure gambling that gox will allow withdrawals in the future.

If gox btc falls down to next to nothing, it could be worth it to throw a bit of money at it for a chance at 5000% profit. No different than casino gambling or playing the lottery. Don't buy more than you can afford to throw away and not care about.

It's crashing fast now $111

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> TA - time frames = etch-a-sketch prognostication.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/de98tsdldl...ever-Works.jpg

You know you're right, TA never works . . . I'm abandoning it forthwith and going back to Gastromancy and Anthropomancy.   I hear there's going to be a lot of the latter going on in plain sight real soon  ;-)

----------


## XTreat

How does one even go about getting dollars into Gox??

----------


## 69360

> How does one even go about getting dollars into Gox??


Wait a month or so to get verified.

There is now a site to trade in the trapped gox btc.

https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/

It's a huge risk obviously.

----------


## Dianne

What will your buy orders be set for tonight, before going to bed?     If you go to bed.

----------


## muh_roads

> What will your buy orders be set for tonight, before going to bed?     If you go to bed.


I set them last night and one already cleared.

550
450
350
250
150

150 & 250 are my hail mary passes that will grab the most.  And if it actually reaches that level, I will be keeping them.  350, 450 & 550 I will be using to play more alts.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-pric...cation-demand/

Check out the first comment in the Blog thread below.

Oh this will do Bitcoin Exchanges a lot of good . . . Trust?  You gotta be kidding me!

----------


## Dianne

> I set them last night and one already cleared.
> 
> 550
> 450
> 350
> 250
> 150
> 
> 150 & 250 are my hail mary passes that will grab the most.  And if it actually reaches that level, I will be keeping them.  350, 450 & 550 I will be using to play more alts.


Looks good !!!     I was going to do some PPC at $3.00 but already $3.40; so it might get in the $ 2 ish range.

----------


## Dianne

> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-pric...cation-demand/
> 
> Check out the first comment in the Blog thread below.
> 
> Oh this will do Bitcoin Exchanges a lot of good . . . Trust?  You gotta be kidding me!


Yeah, no joke !!!!     They were always the most expensive exchange in the business... now they are dragging 400. behind everyone else.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This drama has me biting my nails... figuratively, but still...

----------


## Dianne

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...gox_situation/

This was posted by one of the Ops on Btc-e ...     Gox really has no office...   just a virtual secretary who answers their phone and a mail box; where they pick up the mail once per week....      I don't know what they are doing right now, but sure seems sinister .... sinister right from the start ..    They are a "roach motel", where deposits continue to come in but withdrawals are refused.

----------


## kpitcher

My question is how many coins has Gox bought in house for $100, moved and sold to the outside world to make instant profit.

----------


## amonasro

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but if anyone has balls of steel and thinks Gox will enable withdrawals, you can buy Gox coins at www.bitcoinbuilder.com for 1/3 of the price, or whatever the going rate is. It has become a mini-market unto itself. 

How it works is Gox's internal coin transfer mechanism is still active, so you deposit your coins @ bitcoinbuilder, then they buy the coins from Gox users' accounts and transfer them to your Gox account. If transfers are enabled, the coins are yours. If not, well, you're stuck with Goxcoins.

----------


## Dianne

> Not sure if this has been posted yet, but if anyone has balls of steel and thinks Gox will enable withdrawals, you can buy Gox coins at www.bitcoinbuilder.com for 1/3 of the price, or whatever the going rate is. It has become a mini-market unto itself. 
> 
> How it works is Gox's internal coin transfer mechanism is still active, so you deposit your coins @ bitcoinbuilder, then they buy the coins from Gox users' accounts and transfer them to your Gox account. If transfers are enabled, the coins are yours. If not, well, you're stuck with Goxcoins.


You said it, but just wanted to confirm that you must have an account with GOX to use this service?     I don't have one, is the reason I'm asking.

----------


## amonasro

> You said it, but just wanted to confirm that you must have an account with GOX to use this service?     I don't have one, is the reason I'm asking.


Yes, you need an account. I haven't used mine in months so I don't remember what their rules are on withdrawing from new, unverified accounts.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes, you need an account. I haven't used mine in months so I don't remember what their rules are on withdrawing from new, unverified accounts.


You can't do it, is the rule.  You need to be verified now.  I would like to stress that the chances of Gox coming back from this are very slim.  If they could, they would have already.  Even if they do, they're bound to go out of business soon.  It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

----------


## amonasro

> You can't do it, is the rule.  You need to be verified now.  I would like to stress that the chances of Gox coming back from this are very slim.  If they could, they would have already.  Even if they do, they're bound to go out of business soon.  It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.


Good to know, thanks. I saw on the bitcointalk forums that somebody wired over $50,000 to Gox this morning. Probably an early adopter with the capital to spare, but yes, it's one hell of a gamble. Their reasoning is that Gox, while woefully slow and incompetent, bounced back twice already and they simply need to update their new software and be sure it works. However IMO this problem is just worse and worse the longer it persists. I don't really know what to think. It is entertaining though; one of those times where truth is stranger than fiction.

----------


## 69360

> Yes, you need an account. I haven't used mine in months so I don't remember what their rules are on withdrawing from new, unverified accounts.


That's not correct. You do not need a mtgox account. You can buy the goxbtc using regular btc and just leave it in the bitcoinbuilder exchange. If/when gox recovers you can then send it anywhere.

----------


## 69360

> That's not correct. You do not need a mtgox account. You can buy the goxbtc using regular btc and just leave it in the bitcoinbuilder exchange. If/when gox recovers you can then send it anywhere.


I might have the balls to try this. My gut says all the btc in gox isn't lost and will be recoverable eventually. I'm watching and waiting, it's been down to 91 but is back up to 130 now, I'm not sure it bottomed.

----------


## muh_roads

> That's not correct. You do not need a mtgox account. You can buy the goxbtc using regular btc and just leave it in the bitcoinbuilder exchange. If/when gox recovers you can then send it anywhere.


That sounds scary.

----------


## amonasro

> That's not correct. You do not need a mtgox account. You can buy the goxbtc using regular btc and just leave it in the bitcoinbuilder exchange. If/when gox recovers you can then send it anywhere.


Ahh, thanks for that. I wasn't sure if Gox was using a proprietary "internal" address like Cryptsy does. I lost faith in Mt Pox months ago so... it's been awhile.

I have to admit I am very tempted by the $100 coins. My gut says they are simply testing and implementing new software... there was something about Blockchain.info helping them out somewhere. Antonopolous is Blockchain's IT guy so perhaps they'll come out of this after all.

----------


## presence

A bit of advice you can take to the bank my friends... when we do finally bounce bull again... the first sell off will occur between MA's 88 and 92 on 12h scale





This should be true for BTCUSD and any altcoin to USD pair and you should have at least 4 days before you get the signal to buy back in.

----------


## presence

> That sounds scary.



but you're looking at 3:1 or 4:1 on your coins.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i597d4vk7t...-Christmas.jpg

BJF on recent Gox TA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONLDwGK1Qc

Bravo BJF, a most comprehensive report!

MT. GOX - My Take - Globalists Overtake X'ed - Attempt Failed!  But they will be back, and when all else fails bye bye Internet as you know it today.  Because only Terrorista's would ever mine and trade Bitcoin.

"Either You are with Us, Or You're Against Us" . . . Dubya

----------


## SomewhereInOz

The Sniping will Continue until the Morale Improves.  That will be all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKYXD...&feature=share

----------


## Dianne

> Not sure if this has been posted yet, but if anyone has balls of steel and thinks Gox will enable withdrawals, you can buy Gox coins at www.bitcoinbuilder.com for 1/3 of the price, or whatever the going rate is. It has become a mini-market unto itself. 
> 
> How it works is Gox's internal coin transfer mechanism is still active, so you deposit your coins @ bitcoinbuilder, then they buy the coins from Gox users' accounts and transfer them to your Gox account. If transfers are enabled, the coins are yours. If not, well, you're stuck with Goxcoins.


Have you had experience with them before?    I signed up with them, but then they said to verify my identity..   They wanted my name, address, social security number, so I didn't continue the sign up process.

----------


## 69360

> there was something about Blockchain.info helping them out somewhere. Antonopolous is Blockchain's IT guy so perhaps they'll come out of this after all.


He was quoted in an article saying mtgox is not insolvent.

----------


## Dianne

> A bit of advice you can take to the bank my friends... when we do finally bounce bull again... the first sell off will occur between MA's 88 and 92 on 12h scale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should be true for BTCUSD and any altcoin to USD pair and you should have at least 4 days before you get the signal to buy back in.


What is MA's 88 and 92?    Can someone tell me in layman's language what this chart is saying.

----------


## muh_roads

> but you're looking at 3:1 or 4:1 on your coins.


I would only test small amounts.  People that use that site don't have to be accountable.  Then when people get scammed they blame BTC for not having the authoritarian ability to protect people from their own dumb actions.

----------


## presence

> What is MA's 88 and 92?    Can someone tell me in layman's language what this chart is saying.


MA is "moving average"  those are the squiggly lines on your candlestick charts.  Bitcoinwisdom charts come default w/ MA 7 and 30... but you can change them to whatever whole numbers you wish in "settings" / "indicator parameter" 

On 12h scale, as we pull out of our current low... we must cross the 90 candle moving average.  This MA will trigger resistance for many bots and many day traders will short here.  So price will tag the 90 MA on 12h candle scale... bounce down for a bit... perhaps a 10-15% loss before recovering and continuing the upward trend.


As your neckbeard QA wizard, I advise you consider the CROSS of MA's 90 and 270 on 12h scale @ gox and stamp on July 15th and September 1st of 2013.  As well as the support provided by MA 270 on October 2nd 2013

Happy trading!

----------


## Dianne

> MA is "moving average"  those are the squiggly lines on your candlestick charts.  Bitcoinwisdom charts come default w/ MA 7 and 30... but you can change them to whatever whole numbers you wish in "settings" / "indicator parameter" 
> 
> On 12h scale, as we pull out of our current low... we must cross the 90 candle moving average.  This MA will trigger resistance for many bots and many day traders will short here.  So price will tag the 90 MA on 12h candle scale... bounce down for a bit... perhaps a 10-15% loss before recovering and continuing the upward trend.


Thank you !!!   That was very helpful.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

Is anyone attempting to sign up at Gox for cheap coins, or is it to risky?

----------


## Dianne

> 


Looking at the Huobi 12h NOW; it looks as though we're about to go up substantially ...    So now time to buy?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Looking at the Huobi 12h NOW; it looks as though we're about to go up substantially ...    So now time to buy?


I bought 3.31 PPC 13.46 LTC and 3.27 NMC yestday.  Holding until 12h MA 90 270 cross.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I bought NMC yesterday and LTC today with BTC, so I hope you're right.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I bought NMC yesterday and LTC today with BTC, so I hope you're right.


*https://www.dropbox.com/s/1kyieroxwml1g51/NMC%20-%2022%20Feb%202014.jpg

Man that is one Red looking chart, and without a BTC "Stimulus Package" coming anytime soon I would say its with extreme optimism that there will be change anytime soon.

But what do I know, I think it might be the Kenny Rogers Roasters sign outside my window screwing up my rods and cones.  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMjgHBnpeV0*

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> *
> 
> Man that is one Red looking chart, and without a BTC "Stimulus Package" coming anytime soon I would say its with extreme optimism that there will be change anytime soon.
> *



lulzy


don't be fiat bag holder!

BUY RED 

SELL GREEN

Never the other way around!!!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> lulzy
> 
> 
> don't be fiat bag holder!
> 
> BUY RED 
> 
> SELL GREEN
> 
> Never the other way around!!!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/lhs7qjkd2t...-July-2013.jpg

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lhs7qjkd2t...-July-2013.jpg


You've got your measurements pretty precise there...  What is your formula for picking dates?

Either way... I don't see March as a long way off anyway.  Apparently you do?

----------


## presence



----------


## SomewhereInOz

> You've got your measurements pretty precise there...  What is your formula for picking dates?
> 
> Either way... I don't see March as a long way off anyway.  Apparently you do?


Its not the length of time away, its the amount of pickings to be had.  Be patient.  Besides we still have the Gox resolution which will impact all these things.  Now at 111.  Gee that's a 666, a 555 and now a 111.  Maybe I will get to respond again when its 000, but as that's our 911 down here, I had better not be near the telephone eh?  ;-)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Its not the length of time away, its the amount of pickings to be had.  Be patient.  Besides we still have the Gox resolution which will impact all these things.  Now at 111.  Gee that's a 666, a 555 and now a 111.  Maybe I will get to respond again when its 000, but as that's our 911 down here, I had better not be near the telephone eh?  ;-)


You may be right... you may not.  If you are, then kudos.  I'm confident I'll be in the green either way.  Perhaps I'll pick up more if you are right.

----------


## amonasro

> Is anyone attempting to sign up at Gox for cheap coins, or is it to risky?


Yeesh, I would not recommend it unless you really know what you're doing. I've been watching Bitcoin charts since last April and am just now beginning to feel comfortable taking some risks trading. I still stick to my method of dollar cost averaging, that is buying bitcoins every month no matter what the price.

----------


## muh_roads

> I set them last night and one already cleared.
> 
> 550
> 450
> 350
> 250
> 150
> 
> 150 & 250 are my hail mary passes that will grab the most.  And if it actually reaches that level, I will be keeping them.  350, 450 & 550 I will be using to play more alts.


In @ 550, out @ 583

I think I'll reset it for 550 again...or maybe 525

----------


## XTreat

> Yeesh, I would not recommend it unless you really know what you're doing. I've been watching Bitcoin charts since last April and am just now beginning to feel comfortable taking some risks trading. I still stick to my method of dollar cost averaging, that is buying bitcoins every month no matter what the price.


Simply the best way to go for the large majority of investors. 

Thanks to presence I have made a very few trades (3-4), all of them profitable, but without his advice I would still be doing exactly what you recommend.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q1akem1wkr...Litecoined.jpg

First Goxed and now Litecoined . . . Huh?  What's next?

----------


## newbitech

> So first you talk $#@! about BTC non-stop, and now you've decided to dump on TA, too?  What is the purpose of all your hate?


The sky is blue.  Got a problem with that too?

----------


## newbitech

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/de98tsdldl...ever-Works.jpg
> 
> You know you're right, TA never works . . . I'm abandoning it forthwith and going back to Gastromancy and Anthropomancy.   I hear there's going to be a lot of the latter going on in plain sight real soon  ;-)


I didn't say TA never works.  I said doing trend analysis without time frames is as good as predicting etch-a-sketch patterns.  Pretty basic, fundamental concept really.  Just making sure that all the new people coming in here for "lessons" and what not can understand wtf is supposed to be going on with some of these analysis.  

In other words, if you see some kind of chart or analysis or drawings that don't reference a time frame, 1 min chart, 5 min chart, daily chart etc etc... then you cannot possibly hope to have any understanding of the analysis, much less read it objectively even if you did understand everything else.  

It's pretty easy to spot support and resistance, but if you are a day trader, you will be looking at support and resistance within the broader trend.  And if you are a long term investor you won't care about the daily tops and bottoms as much.  If you swing in the middle, or basically your average speculator, you have to be somewhere in between.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q1akem1wkr...Litecoined.jpg
> 
> First Goxed and now Litecoined . . . Huh?  What's next?


Seems someone else sees it the same, except I was reticent about forgeting to include "Crazy stupid newb money greed and media altcoin attention".

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9mhhtljvi...The%20Same.jpg

Lets just call him SomewhereInReality shall we? (4xForecaster on TradingView, check him out, has loads of other previous LTCBTC predictive charts)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> The sky is blue.  Got a problem with that too?


Actually its "Chemtrailed" most of the time, but I guess we can call that kinda blue.

----------


## newbitech

> Actually its "Chemtrailed" most of the time, but I guess we can call that kinda blue.


Yeah, kinda...

----------


## nayjevin

Windows help has good info on cryptography... helped me wrap my mind around some of this stuff.  I'm learning computers so I won't become a part of the slave class in the future.

----------


## Dianne

> Yeesh, I would not recommend it unless you really know what you're doing. I've been watching Bitcoin charts since last April and am just now beginning to feel comfortable taking some risks trading. I still stick to my method of dollar cost averaging, that is buying bitcoins every month no matter what the price.


You're right.   I didn't realize they have admitted insolvency.   That sounds like the first step in declaring bankruptcy, second step dumping coins as they are currently doing.     I just don't understand why they are trading btc at $100. range; while everyone else in the mid 500's.    I keep wondering if 100. is the true btc value; that the other exchanges are manipulating upwards for higher trading fees.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Windows help has good info on cryptography... helped me wrap my mind around some of this stuff.  I'm learning computers so I won't become a part of the slave class in the future.


You might like to have a read of this book by Claus Schmeh entitled "Cryptography and Public Key Infrastructure on the Internet", in your quest to learn more about Applied Cryptography:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/efy0zrre61...astructure.jpg

Free Download -> www.4shared.com -> Keyword Search title in full or "Cryptography PDF".  Be sure to include the PDF as it narrows the search to only books on the subject.

A great introductory read, probably the best I have found, but while there also check out these titles:

An Introduction to Mathematical Cryptography (2008) - Hoffstein, Pipher and Silverman

Information Security: Practices and Security (2006) - Mark Stamp

Cryptography and Network Security Principles and Practices, Fourth Edition (2006) - William Stallings

Cryptography and Data Security (1982) - Dorothy Denning - Great Book, Mathematically Rigorous though

A "Data Security and Cryptography" Zip file contains most of above plus loads of lecture notes and Powerpoint slideshows on the Cryptography

Handbook of Applied Cryptography - Menezes, Van Oorschoot & Vanstone

Modern Cryptography: Theory and Practice (2003) - Wenbo Mao

. . . and many more

If tempted to get into programming remember Microsoft Visual Studio Express 2013 is a free download to tinker with (MSDN and the full version costs AUD$900 ish I think, but you won't need that to get started) and in this case you will definitely want to get a hold of and read:

Pro ASP.NET 2.0 in C# 2005 - MacDonald and Szpuszta, and other later .NET editions you can find.

Also heaps of other .NET books and programming books to solidify your knowledge found @ 4Shared.com, such as:

Network Programming in .NET with C# and Visual Basic .NET (2004) - Fiach Reid

C++ Network Programming, Volume 1 - Schmidt & Huston

But be sure to start back at C++ and for that you can't go past Deitel & Deitel's "C++ How to Program, Eighth Edition"  1303 pp (also avail. at 4Shared).  The #1 BEST programming trainers on the planet they are.  They break down programming concepts into very detailed, very understandable byte sized pieces.

Once you get into C++ you will want to read anything "Stroustrup" the guy who created it all, especially:

The C++ Programming Language, 4th Edition (2013) - Bjarne Stroustrup - 1366 pp

Also Youtube search Bucky @ "thenewboston" Youtube Channel for his 68 part C++ Programming Tutorials.  He describes visually and in a very comprehensive way, that which Deitel & Deitel describe in words.  Well, at least the introductory concepts.

Of course it won't be long before you will want to take a detour into Data Structures before you start trying to figure out how Blockchains work (to understand basic Binary Trees before digging into Merkle Trees):

Data Structures and Algorithms in C++, 2nd Edition (2001) - Adam Drozdek

C++ Data Structures, 3rd Edition (2003) - Nell Dale

Principles of Data Structures Using C and C++ (2006) - Vinu Das

Then for Block Chains and Merkle Trees, Google Search these keywords for PDF's:

"Purely P2P Crypto-Currency With Finite Mini-Blockchain J.D. Bruce PDF 2013"

"Merkle Tree Traversal Techniques Boris Ederov PDF 2007"

"Merkle Tree Traversal Revisited Buchmann Dahmen Schneider PDF"

But there's loads more, too many to mention.

Of course you can't go wrong reading Ralph Merkle's Ph.D. Dissertation on the subject:

Ralph Merkle, “Secrecy, Authentication and Public Key Systems/ A certified digital signature”, Ph.D. Dissertation, Dept. of Electrical Engineering, Stanford University, 1979.

http://www.merkle.com/papers/Thesis1979.pdf

Hours of fun and excitement lay ahead, and of course when you're done you will have a pretty darned good idea how this all works at the "tinker around and play" level . . . load all the PDF's on your Android Tablet and your off and running, can read anywhere, anytime.  The PDF Browser for the Android bookmarks where you last left off for a speedy jumping back in point as you hop from book to book.

Samsung Android Tablet? . . . Not sure but mine was $320 ish I think.  Probably cheaper now and probably many other alternative brands and models which are cheaper still.  A very worthwhile investment.



_Note:  All these PDF's are fine and dandy, but as you get into this and get serious about it, sometimes you will want to have the real hardcover/softcover version, to refer to again and again, to take into the backyard or another quiet place where the glare may be too difficult to read on the tablet.  Just went through this with Lean and Six Sigma in the last couple of years, and most particularly for complex statistical concepts (Six Sigma) nothing beats having the papyrus version, and that's where Amazon.com comes in (60 books later . . .).  But at least this list and more will help filter down your purchase requirements to the more essential texts only, that you know you will be coming back to and reviewing again and again over time.  4Shared.com, its a great spot to browse books on any subject._

----------


## nayjevin

> You might like to have a read of this book by Claus Schmeh entitled "Cryptography and Public Key Infrastructure on the Internet", in your quest to learn more about Applied Cryptography:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/efy0zrre61...astructure.jpg
> 
> Free Download -> www.4shared.com -> Keyword Search title in full or "Cryptography PDF".  Be sure to include the PDF as it narrows the search to only books on the subject.
> 
> A great introductory read, probably the best I have found, but while there also check out these titles:
> 
> An Introduction to Mathematical Cryptography (2008) - Hoffstein, Pipher and Silverman
> ...


Good information, I'll be learning.  I'd also be interested in a libertarian view of how certification authority heirarchy has evolved.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Good information, I'll be learning.  I'd also be interested in a libertarian view of how certification authority heirarchy has evolved.


Have added a bit more, may wish to review again.

Not sure this covers your interest, but it may be a starting point:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc875810.aspx

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I'd also be interested in a libertarian view of how certification authority heirarchy has evolved.


These two papers might provide the information you are looking for:

https://www.entrust.com/wp-content/u...GC_Aug2012.pdf (Commercial Paper, but it describes the evolution)

http://www.webtrust.org/homepage-doc.../item54279.pdf

When searching with Google, its always more time effective to do a basic search, and then click on the cog icon to the top right and select "Advanced Search".  If you spend a bit of time learning the search parameter syntax you will greatly reduce the amount of scroll in your search results and narrow in more quickly to the specific topic and type of content (html, PDF, PPT, video etc), date of publication, etc. that you are seeking.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The sky is blue.  Got a problem with that too?


That's not the same thing.  Surely you can see that.  If I can clearly see that someone is hideously disfigured, I don't go around shouting it just because I think it's true.  There are things you think are true that you have absolutely no reason for trying to convince someone else of because it just doesn't concern you.

----------


## presence

http://altcoinpress.com/2014/02/brea...n-withdrawals/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/commen...ical_solution/




> Signs on the blockchain indicate that MtGox has processed a small number of external transactions today for the first time since suspending customer withdrawals earlier this month.By using the MtGox API and blockchain forensics, a Reddit reader has uncovered evidence that some transactions have started to be processed. Plus there are reports that users are beginning to receive their previously requested bitcoins.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Actually its "Chemtrailed" most of the time, but I guess we can call that kinda blue.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You're right.   I didn't realize they have admitted insolvency.   That sounds like the first step in declaring bankruptcy, second step dumping coins as they are currently doing.     I just don't understand why they are trading btc at $100. range; while everyone else in the mid 500's.    I keep wondering if 100. is the true btc value; that the other exchanges are manipulating upwards for higher trading fees.


The other exchanges aren't manipulating the price.  It isn't that easy to do.  The price is based on trades occurring between private parties hundreds of times a minute.  Virtually nobody is trading on Gox.  The only reason their prices are so low is because nobody wants to even touch Mt. Gox, and so the demand for BTC on Gox goes down and the price also goes down.  The only people who are trading on Gox are the people who are hoping for some kind of fantasy in which Gox magically recovers and the price normalizes again.  

The normal price is the one on the other exchanges.  If you'll notice, the price only went down on Mt. Gox after the news got out that Gox was insolvent.  It didn't affect the other exchanges as much because Gox was the only one with the problem.  That means the real price is the price set by the other exchanges.

----------


## muh_roads

> lulzy
> 
> 
> don't be fiat bag holder!
> 
> BUY RED 
> 
> SELL GREEN
> 
> Never the other way around!!!


She looks like she is on a tear to break 600 again.  I should not have sold the 550 piece so soon.

Lots of Bitcoin in the news right now also.  It's like your charts can predict human behavior, pres.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

You've got to be kidding me.  I shouldn't have had that sell order on LTC.  Meanwhile, NMC was my biggest altcoin, and it inexplicably remains stagnant.

----------


## muh_roads

> Good information, I'll be learning.  I'd also be interested in a libertarian view of how certification authority heirarchy has evolved.


Check out XCP Counterparty.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> You've got to be kidding me.  I shouldn't have had that sell order on LTC.  Meanwhile, NMC was my biggest altcoin, and it inexplicably remains stagnant.


Best Opp your going to get on it.  Still not too late.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I thought you said NMC was a New Moon Catapult?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I thought you said NMC was a New Moon Catapult?


Where is our New Moon?  1 March.  We aren't close enough to 1 March.  Needs to be just a day or two before or a day or two after.

New Moon 1 March will be dead for NMC this time around.  Well perhaps not dead, but it sure won't be a 3-4 Jan screamer.

New Moon 30 March and New Moon 29 April will be a different story for NMC (+/- 2-3 days).  Very much likely 29 April.  The hanging around till that point could be agonizing for NMC holders though.

What we just witnessed was the next leading edge of the Dragon Tail on the way down to the low on 3 March = $420 (well at least that's what I am calling at this point).  Probably another pop like this one before we get there.

I did however think earlier in the day that on Bitstamp we might see as high as $648, but that was probably a bit too much to expect as that was on the same resistance line as two former pops if you check the charts.  Needs to be gradually lower.

Anywhere above $648 and continuing higher, and Pres was right, I was wrong, we would be in July 2013 already or August 2013.

Still too early.  BTC needs more time to consolidate.  Still sticking with 3 March, although a precise Date_Add is actually 27 Feb 14.

Will be interesting to see what Gox does from here.  If they are really distributing coins again, well they could be the play of the moment.  I however think there is still a bit of drama left there even though it could all come good.

Disclaimer:  And this is important to note.  As the Web Bots said on 20 Jan 14, most particularly the last two weeks of February 2014, outside eyes looking at this market will increase in HUGE numbers.  What I am describing above is modelled on a carbon copy of April-July 2013.  Now should some Huge amazing event happen affecting the population globally, this New Moon could be wild.  I am not expecting that to happen based from what I have read in the Web Bots.  All we will see is a much larger interest in Bitcoin/Altcoin growing all around us, and people starting to ask questions about what in the Hell is going on, but taking little to no action.

Kinda like these folks all of a sudden showing interest:

http://www.coindesk.com/documents-go...ssing-bitcoin/

These 3 vids from today form part of the "Shock and Awe" and the what the hell is going on but just a tiny part, will try to pull it all together later for you in a post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbYibMvZDnk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rGOE79yK6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fylS9BBcpvs

Finally the day is coming when this whole model we are following of repeatability and predictability of patterns based on the past will break.  I am now convinced of that.  Will it break between now and early March, probably not.  Will it continue being predictable right up till the 1st day of August?  Definitely not.  Somewhere between here and there the break will happen and its a moonshot.  When?  Don't ask me, ask the Global Elites when they plan to take things into crazyville.  The signs are not only happening now daily, they are happening by the minute.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Where is our New Moon?  1 March.  We aren't close enough to 1 March.  Needs to be just a day or two before or a day or two after.
> 
> New Moon 1 March will be dead for NMC this time around.  Well perhaps not dead, but it sure won't be a 3-4 Jan screamer.
> 
> New Moon 30 March and New Moon 29 April will be a different story for NMC (+/- 2-3 days).  Very much likely 29 April.  The hanging around till that point could be agonizing for NMC holders though.
> 
> What we just witnessed was the next leading edge of the Dragon Tail on the way down to the low on 3 March = $420 (well at least that's what I am calling at this point).  Probably another pop like this one before we get there.
> 
> I did however think earlier in the day that on Bitstamp we might see as high as $648, but that was probably a bit too much to expect as that was on the same resistance line as two former pops if you check the charts.  Needs to be gradually lower.
> ...


I don't need much in order to get a little profit out of NMC.  Any estimates for what it will do this New Moon in a worst case scenario?

(Ok, obviously the worst case is that they all crash to zero, but from your point of view...)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I don't need much in order to get a little profit out of NMC.  Any estimates for what it will do this New Moon in a worst case scenario?
> 
> (Ok, obviously the worst case is that they all crash to zero, but from your point of view...)


They won't be crashing to Zero to start off with.

If you go to Trading View and setup a chart for NMC, you will find the best and longest standing data there is for it anywhere.

Back around April 2013, NMC was doing its own thing, generally in alignment with BTC but usually a number of days beforehand. For example NMC price spiked on 1 April and BTC price spiked right on the New Moon that month.

At that time there was BTC, NMC, PPC and the brand new LTC and that was about it, unless I am missing something.

So if you look at this image:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tti9fu36kz...ing%20View.jpg

and once you get it setup with Trading View, and go to April-July 2013, you will see at the end point of BTC consolidation was 6 July 13.  Indeed NMC did have a small pop then BUT, and this is important, with now over 150 Altcoins (2-3 new ones turning up a day now on one mining profitability site I am watching - BeeCoin, CoinyeCoin, ProsperCoin, DopeCoin, SaturnCoin, GrumpyCoin, FlappyCoin, KlondikeCoin, NobleCoin, PenguinCoin), with DOGE ahead of NMC, with Ripple, with Counterparty, with Protoshares etc etc, will it do so again?  I can't tell you.  My feeling is no, not to the same extent.  I argue that NMC's unique standing is gone now, even though there are properties to NMC which no other Altcoin has - people don't understand nor care about that, they are chasing the gathering crowd coins.  Today of all days NMC should have shown at least some upwards momentum.  PPC kinda did, but not till later on and not all that much.  At least its made a recovery from its low for the day.

Sorry, can't help much further.  You know my bias now is towards the coin with the growing following . . . DOGE.  Not even sure what its done today to be honest, and don't really care.  In fact as mentioned before I am hoping it will drop to 150 Satoshi's, but not sure that will happen.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

. . . concede Ukranian Govt or you will all die (Drudge Report Headline Paraphrasing a related article earlier - now gone from Drudge)

Why?  This: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOcpRBNOarw

Video is of guy filming the crash scene, hearing gunshots and scurrying away.  Dead survivors tell no stories you see.

Polish President and virtually all of his senior cabinet members.  Wholesale loss of Polands Political Leadership on 10 April 2010 in one blow (there's those 40 Occultic days of madness again - 20 March - 1 May which immediately follow the Druidic month of Ogronios (19 Feb - 19 Mar 14 - this year 19 Feb celebrated with Prince Chucky, ahem Rothschild himself, doing the sword dance thing in Saudi Arabia.

*Take note of the sword, you must take note of the sword.  You then must also look at a Sochi Olympic torch and note its Sword like structure.  Then you must go to Google Maps and note the Sword like lake above Kiev.  Symbolism folks, Symbolism . . . lost on most who don't truly understand their Bible!
*
Of course explosive traces were found near the crashed jet.  In other words sabotage.  All mobile phones disabled at the time of the crash.  Hmmm, odd how that happens especially when a new guy is inserted to organise the Presidential trip just weeks before.

Afterwards, pro-Russian leaders inserted into power in Poland.

http://www.doomedsoldiers.com/CIA-of...sk-Russia.html

So now pro-Russia Poland is telling the Ukranian Govt to concede to Nazi Opposition parties inserted and funded by the US?  Huh?  WTF?

http://themadjewess.com/2014/02/19/f...litical-party/

How does this make sense under the guise that they want the Ukraine to join the EU?  It doesn't, thats just the cover story for the Sheeple.  Read on . . .

and next news the Ukranian President flees the Capital surrendering to the Opposition (aka the Nazi Parties), and after all the mayhem of the last 2-3 weeks in particular, shots fired and killing everywhere now that we are in Ogronios and the Elites got their rocks off on a bit of a "blood sacrifice orgy", and then its over in an instant and the protesters just walz unchallenged into the Presidents Official building and Police just abandon their posts?  What The F*ck!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26299670

Or could it be (as the article above alludes to) POTUS is actually controlled by one Mr. Mad Vlad Putin (or higher hands) and this is all about stitching back together the Russian Bear for what's to come?

As in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_a1RhcB0Tk

These jokers are all on the same team, sorry to say if you haven't realised that yet and doubly sorry to say, its not "Team Humanity".  It's "Team, there's only room for us and our Slave State Model China (thats why all our $#@!ing Golds there now), and the rest of you can go to buggery.  AKA, let the Genocide begin!

and why all the Russian troops in the USofA?  What's that all about?

Ticking time bomb folks . . . What did I tell you there was going to be a big event on 22 Feb 14.  Not Olympics related no, but this is huge!  ;-)

Very Crypto-related, because when this lights up you're going to be wanting to be watching in all directions at once.

Of course coincidentally, just coincidentally we now have GUS (Gubment US) censors in all MSM studios . . . Hmmmm.  We can't be having the sheep catching wind of all this now can we?

And what of this Mr. Sorrows (they love playing on words with their fake names), aka Mr. Soros, and just how was it that he was able to break the Bank of England in 1981 singlehandedly?  Well you see Mr. Sorrows, aka George Soros is actually one Mr. David Rockefellar, and what you witnessed back then was just a family feud with the Rothschilds (or whatever other purpose it had at the time), but just a bit of funnin' around you see.

Stay tuned, things are accelerating now, the $#@!s going to get piled deeper than you ever seen it before . . .

Oh yeah, pay close attention to this one, will let you in on it later:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcoCViGU_WI

----------


## amonasro

> You're right.   I didn't realize they have admitted insolvency.   That sounds like the first step in declaring bankruptcy, second step dumping coins as they are currently doing.     I just don't understand why they are trading btc at $100. range; while everyone else in the mid 500's.    I keep wondering if 100. is the true btc value; that the other exchanges are manipulating upwards for higher trading fees.


They haven't officially admitted anything except "our internal system is screwed up, give us more time to fix it" while the Goxcoin holders are selling thinking that, in the event of a Gox bankruptcy, it would be legally easier to get $$$ out than bitcoins. I know some people are holding tight, though. I'm also positive there is some insider trading going on to manipulate the price there; simply par of the Bitcoin course, and there are too many whales that have coins stuck there to resist this opportunity.

I have deposited a few coins over at Bitcoinbuilder as my gut tells me their management is simply incompetent (and probably a little corrupt and taking advantage of the low prices) but I also know that them failing to fix the problem would create one of the biggest $#@!storms ever, as many early adopters with large sums of coins trade there. I personally would fear for my life if I screwed up on such a massive scale. Antonopolous has tweeted that he thinks it's simply mismanagement and incompetence and I tend to agree. Wish me luck.

----------


## Dianne

> They haven't officially admitted anything except "our internal system is screwed up, give us more time to fix it" while the Goxcoin holders are selling thinking that, in the event of a Gox bankruptcy, it would be legally easier to get $$$ out than bitcoins. I know some people are holding tight, though. I'm also positive there is some insider trading going on to manipulate the price there; simply par of the Bitcoin course, and there are too many whales that have coins stuck there to resist this opportunity.
> 
> I have deposited a few coins over at Bitcoinbuilder as my gut tells me their management is simply incompetent (and probably a little corrupt and taking advantage of the low prices) but I also know that them failing to fix the problem would create one of the biggest $#@!storms ever, as many early adopters with large sums of coins trade there. I personally would fear for my life if I screwed up on such a massive scale. Antonopolous has tweeted that he thinks it's simply mismanagement and incompetence and I tend to agree. Wish me luck.


Good luck !!!   I wanted to do that yesterday..... so badly ..... but once they asked for my name, address and social security number I was out of there.     Let us know how it goes.

----------


## 69360

> They haven't officially admitted anything except "our internal system is screwed up, give us more time to fix it" while the Goxcoin holders are selling thinking that, in the event of a Gox bankruptcy, it would be legally easier to get $$$ out than bitcoins. I know some people are holding tight, though. I'm also positive there is some insider trading going on to manipulate the price there; simply par of the Bitcoin course, and there are too many whales that have coins stuck there to resist this opportunity.
> 
> I have deposited a few coins over at Bitcoinbuilder as my gut tells me their management is simply incompetent (and probably a little corrupt and taking advantage of the low prices) but I also know that them failing to fix the problem would create one of the biggest $#@!storms ever, as many early adopters with large sums of coins trade there. I personally would fear for my life if I screwed up on such a massive scale. Antonopolous has tweeted that he thinks it's simply mismanagement and incompetence and I tend to agree. Wish me luck.



My gut says you are going to make money. I think gox is going to recover. The price on gox is over 200 on rumors that they started processing again.

----------


## presence

rFSDKeACkjhlkjytlbCSor9JCsG

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> 


Good time to buy and hold ltc then?

----------


## lotsOfCake

> 


Are you "mooning"? :-P

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Good time to buy and hold ltc then?


Sure looks like it.

----------


## Dianne

> Sure looks like it.



I caught a few before they almost hit $15.00 ...   And BTC, the same?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I caught a few before they almost hit $15.00 ...   And BTC, the same?


Yes, but probably not as much as LTC.  It might be a good idea to trade BTC for LTC at the bottom and go back to BTC at the top.

----------


## muh_roads

I personally think Gox is going to pull out of this fine.  They have too many eyes watching them.  There is no way they can get away with deliberately screwing people over.

Just give it time.  3 years ago a magic the gathering nerd built a trading engine in PHP and the community is still suffering from that.  But I think this will pass.

----------


## muh_roads

Okay so is now the time to start accumulating BTC?  pres you sound very bullish right now.  What is the March new moon talk?

Tempted to start accumulating fast and turn it around into LTC.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Okay so is now the time to start accumulating BTC?  pres you sound very bullish right now.  What is the March new moon talk?
> 
> Tempted to start accumulating fast and turn it around into LTC.


IMHO, it IS a good time to do just that.  All the indicators point toward a signifcant BTC rise and an even more significant LTC rise for a short time.  Don't be fooled into thinking LTC will outperform BTC in the long run, though.  It's strictly a temporary investment.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This is the third green day since consolidation began.  That's a good sign.  

Buy and hold.

----------


## kpitcher

> Bart Simpson


Watch out, cartoons of Simpsons showing nudity can be deemed as child porn 

Guy got 15 months federal prison for that.  Slightly more to story than just Simpsons but that's what he pled guilty to.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/20/th...ns-and-child-p

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Its All Lunacy  :-)

18 Aug 2012 - BTC Price Spike - $15.36 - New Moon
27 Oct 2012 - BTC Consolidation Low - $9.84 - 2 Days before Full Moon

Chart: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jccv2sepk...x---Aug-12.jpg

10 Apr 2013 - BTC Price Spike - $265.72 - New Moon
6 July 2013 - BTC Consolidation Low - $65.97 - 2 Days before New Moon

Chart: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q05tqhiwjl...x---Apr-13.jpg

4 Dec 2013 - BTC Price Spike - $1241.92 - New Moon
1 Mar 2014 - New Moon
16 Mar 2014 - Full Moon
BTC-e Consolidation Low so far - 21 Feb 14 - $514.05 (discounting the $102)

Charts:
Mt. Gox -> Never thought way back when, that we would see "ultimate support" touched but alas it happened

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d9o6o09ax...x---Dec-13.jpg

BTC-e -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jynew4evsl...ex---BTC-e.jpg

26 July 2014 - New Moon - Anticipating fireworks, unless fireworks are stimulated by other events beforehand

==================================================  =========================================

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html

Date Diffs - BTC Price Spikes

18 Aug 2012 -> 10 Apr 2013 = 235 Days
10 Apr 2013 -> 4 Dec 2013 = 238 Days
4 Dec 2013 -> 26 Jul 2014 = 234 Days

Average = 235.7 Days

Date Diffs - BTC Consolidation Lows

27 Oct 2012 -> 6 Jul 2013 = 252 Days
6 Jul 2013 -> 1 Mar 2014 = 238 Days (Next New Moon) <--- ??? Too early ???

6 Jul 2013 + 252 Days = 15 March 2014
Next Full Moon = 16 March 2014 - Full Moons tend to find bottoms or at least lows - see images

New Moons are known for BTC Price Spikes, this cannot be denied - 26 July 14 should be significant
New Moons otherwise are not conclusive, but around a New Moon there is generally positive price action for BTC - +/- 3-4 Days

Full Moons have seen BTC Spike lows, but not as frequently as BTC New Moon Spike highs.  Other external factors related to the market seem to impact low prices, particularly spike lows, rather than the Lunar Phase.

Have we consolidated and its nowhere but up from here?  The beauty of being a free and independent thinker, is you get to decide.  :-)


Significant Web Bot Dates

Last Two Weeks of Feb - Growing ground swell of interest in Cryptocurrencies.  No action by these people, just research.
1 March 14 - Bitcoin adoption rate begins to take a large leap forward as we progress through March and April.  Will it be early March?  Dunno, just says through March and April, the report data gathering period.  Report issued 20 Jan 14, after research from 1 Jan 14.
13 March 14 - Bankster suicide news peaks, doesn't mean to say no more thereafter just that this is the date of the peak.
13 March 14 - Evidence of shorting of the Precious Metals shifts dramatically.  Precious Metals Jump?  Not necessarily dramatically, just says that this is the date that it will become obvious to all that the Precious Metals shorting is easing.
Last week March - Significant Radiation Burp Fukushima will be noticed on West Coast North America.  Japan earthquake precursor? or just all the existing radioactive cloud finally making it to North America?  Dunno.

This show discusses other significant dates coming up and interesting topics on Fukushima.  Interesting listen -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orIybhsp7mg

Radioactive Cloud to arrive early April so suggests Jerry.  Damn, a WebBot miss . . . by a week.

If it happens, along with a potential currency reset, Precious Metals cutting loose, and along with the Web Bot predicted coming short war (China v Japan) just how will all this affect the Bitcoin price?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRzT0a1_DIA

Anyway, just remember to always keep one "all seeing eye" on the big picture.  ;-)

----------


## muh_roads

So a new moon is a new paradigm spike...  And a full moon is a new higher bottom?

I personally think we could head to 650 before falling back again.

----------


## muh_roads

I wonder how low this could go tonight.  People are trying to chew through a 10k sell wall on bitstamp.

----------


## amonasro

> Good luck !!!   I wanted to do that yesterday..... so badly ..... but once they asked for my name, address and social security number I was out of there.     Let us know how it goes.





> My gut says you are going to make money. I think gox is going to recover. The price on gox is over 200 on rumors that they started processing again.


Thanks for the support. It's a bit of a gamble but the payoff will be a double up of the risked coins. I don't mind giving my personal info as Gox already has it, as does Bitstamp.

I got nervous earlier when I saw that Karpeles resigned from the Bitcoin Foundation, but then I remember the community signed a petition asking him to do so. Then I saw Charlie Shrem's comment on twitter about speaking with him. I'm still not convinced enough to risk any more, but fingers crossed.

----------


## kpitcher

Gox resigned from the bitcoin foundation and cleared their twitter feed.

Wonder what this means. If only gox would die already and stop the btc bleeding. They've been bad for months. 

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/23/mt-...-of-directors/

----------


## newbitech

> IMHO, it IS a good time to do just that. *All the indicators point toward a signifcant BTC rise* and an even more significant LTC rise for a short time. Don't be fooled into thinking LTC will outperform BTC in the long run, though. It's strictly a temporary investment.


Not really, the daily RSI (to be clear, it's the stoch) on bitstamp has moved into overbought territory.  Weekly MACD just crossed 2 weeks ago and is trending solidly downward.  Not sure what indicators you are looking at, but the most common indicators are suggesting this much needed correction hasn't bottomed out yet.

Perhaps you are looking at the 62% fib retrace support level.  That has been pretty strong against powerful downward pressure, looking at the volume in the moves. 

The trend is your friend I think breaks that stale mate.  When the 62% retrace is solidly broken in the weekly, You'll see the April 2013 retest that is long overdue.  

The price level has stayed solidly in the bottom half of the bearish trend channel for the better part of 2 weeks.  

Bulls do have 1 thing in their favor, and that would be the diminishing volume on the move down.  However, as a bear, I would counter that with the paltry volume in the counter trend rally.

In any case, the major indicators still seem to support the consolidation and further price moves down.  Coupled with the uncertainty that has emerged about the viability of sustain of this beta test, I'd suggested remaining neutral to sell rather than accumulating at this level.

----------


## presence

How to read a 1w Bitcoin RSI chart:

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Lolzy . . . Snap!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a33abrk4v7...ations-End.jpg

Hint 2:  Hard to see and measure on this graphic, but if you could you would notice that as we progress, the distance is shrinking between the point of final consolidation and the next price spike . . . why? and what is the shrinkage period?

This video might help  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DoARSlv-HU

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Although these 3 lines might give a range to contemplate for that day:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kslj16ywti...ce%20Range.jpg

Lower Line - $278.62 (Entirely too Optimistic IMHO)
Middle Line - $368.23 (Mmmmmm, still seems Very Optimistic)
Top Line - $450.10 (Now that's sounding better)

The reason for the spike low of 30 Sep 13 should be evaluated (news items on that day, etc.) and as we progress along, is it symptomatic that as the bell weather for the starting point of the next major rally, that it will grow increasingly spikey through time?  Could be good to know.

Or maybe it was just a 3 letter agency guy dumping some coin on that day for kicks.  You know, kinda like the $102 panic person losing all his marbles on BTC-e recently for no good reason whatsoever, while everyone on Bitstamp was staying cool and chilled @ $535 during the Gox hari-kari initiation ritual.  ;-)

Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Connect!

----------


## Dianne

> How to read a 1w Bitcoin RSI chart:


So is this good news or bad news for btc/ltc bagholders?

----------


## presence

> So is this good news or bad news for btc/ltc bagholders?



I'm all in.  Holding PPC NMC and LTC.    I'm trading ratios to BTC but there's not a chance in hell I'm moving to fiat any time soon.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> So is this good news or bad news for btc/ltc bagholders?


One thing I do know, its VERY good news for Fiat Holders who did their research!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Living downwind from this?

http://agreenroad.blogspot.com.au/20...oming-out.html

Might wish to keep apprised of the situation.

Especially since this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1B1Q4yNsC8

Years and years of START negotiations and finally the Rusky's decided to give up 80% of their Nukes.

Where did the nuclear waste end up?  You guessed it, WIPP.

All those years we wondered if the Rusky's would Nuke us.  Perhaps they just did eh? . . . how Ironic.  Oh those Globalists, they got tricks up their sleeves at every turn don't they.

Another title for this post could be . . . "What if the next 911 has already happened, but they just didn't think tell you about it yet?".

Web Bot discussion, and this ages ago.  In fact it was in the reports back around 2009 and 2010.  But recently in the past 2-3 years it has disappeared from the short-term immediacy data.  Talked about a Diaspora of 200 Million people in North America moving North.  Could never quite figure out why.  As fantastic as that sounded at the time, of course immediately people started discussing the potential related to the Deep Water Horizon accident.  I don't know, but perhaps it was dropped from the reports because, nah something like that would be unfathomable to happen . . . an event which would cause such a mass migration of that many people.  Couldn't be! Impossible!

Perhaps this is nothing but a small containable leak, but then again . . .  Best to stay alert and aware, because it seems GUS sure ain't going to be telling you about it.

----------


## Dianne

> I'm all in.  Holding PPC NMC and LTC.    I'm trading ratios to BTC but there's not a chance in hell I'm moving to fiat any time soon.


Well that sounds encouraging !!

----------


## newbitech

> How to read a 1w Bitcoin RSI chart:



http://www.investing.com/currencies/...6400&cid=49798

daily neutral.  You must be looking at the stoch rsi.

http://www.thebull.com.au/premium/a/...-you-use-.html




> To put it simply the RSI’s strength lies in the speed with which it reacts to changes in price, providing an early detection to potential market changes. The stochastic's strength is its ability to filter out market noise and provide less distortion to the underlying market momentum, *at the cost of a slight delay compared to RSI.*


RSI on weekly scale isn't really a great indicator.  Which is why stochRSI is used.  Stoch's flatten out the noise.  You can't use the 20/80 rule on stochs, because stoch's aren't filtered like that.  So your chart doesn't indicate an oversold condition.  That chart indicates a smooth trend that is solidly downward.  What you want to pay attention to on the weekly scale for rsiStoch is for the point when the blue line crosses over the orange line.  Then look to see if this coincides with an MA cross over.  

Long story short, know your indicators.  what you have pictured here is an indicator of an indicator.  Where you have the question mark, you can see this indicator is still sloping downward.  You should expect this line to level out first and then cross over as I mentioned.  The other point I would make is that you'll need to see a volume reversal to get anything like the rsiStoch highs and lows you see in the past points you have highlighted.

----------


## newbitech

https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=BITSTAMP%3ABTCUSD

Change to weekly, turn on Relative Strength Index.  Bitstamp RSI is 50 and trending down. Turn on Stoch RSI and see the difference

----------


## Dianne

> https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=BITSTAMP%3ABTCUSD
> 
> Change to weekly, turn on Relative Strength Index.  Bitstamp RSI is 50 and trending down. Turn on Stoch RSI and see the difference


OMG, finally a chart I can read and understand.    Thanks for posting !!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Does anyone know why the Bitstamp price is getting left behind the other exchanges all of a sudden?  That is, except for Mt. Gox, naturally.

----------


## amonasro

> Does anyone know why the Bitstamp price is getting left behind the other exchanges all of a sudden?  That is, except for Mt. Gox, naturally.


Could be early arbitrage from Gox.

----------


## newbitech

Bitcoin is said to be the leader in crypto currency because it was the first.  BTC price in fiat is better than all other crypto's even tho there are only minimal differences in technologies.  Essentially the competition between BTC and all other crypto's is reduced to the fact that bitcoin was first it commands better values. 

Mt.Gox was the first exchange.  Mt.Gox led the way in every respect for the greater part of the life time of crypto.  There are only minimal differences between mt.gox and all other exchanges.  

There is no real reason to believe that the Mt.Gox price isn't closer to the reality of the value of BTC.  My experience with Mt. Gox was horrible, but there are no fundamental differences between Mt. Gox and any other exchange.  

Perhaps the other exchanges are more well capitalized and perhaps insured.  However those exchanges have not mitigated the risk factors that overcame Mt.Gox nor have those exchanges been tested in the same way. 

I suspect the true value at this point is somewhere between the Mt.Gox value and the other exchanges.  Stay tuned.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Bitcoin is said to be the leader in crypto currency because it was the first.  BTC price in fiat is better than all other crypto's even tho there are only minimal differences in technologies.  Essentially the competition between BTC and all other crypto's is reduced to the fact that bitcoin was first it commands better values. 
> 
> Mt.Gox was the first exchange.  Mt.Gox led the way in every respect for the greater part of the life time of crypto.  There are only minimal differences between mt.gox and all other exchanges.  
> 
> There is no real reason to believe that the Mt.Gox price isn't closer to the reality of the value of BTC.  My experience with Mt. Gox was horrible, but there are no fundamental differences between Mt. Gox and any other exchange.  
> 
> Perhaps the other exchanges are more well capitalized and perhaps insured.  However those exchanges have not mitigated the risk factors that overcame Mt.Gox nor have those exchanges been tested in the same way. 
> 
> I suspect the true value at this point is somewhere between the Mt.Gox value and the other exchanges.  Stay tuned.


As a techie, you should know that there were and still are plenty of differences between Gox and the other exchanges, the most prominent one being security.  This is crucial and they had very lacking security compared to the others.  It is true that the others suffered some problems, but Gox was way worse, not to mention the way they manage a supposed crisis.

Here's just a sampling of their issues:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/c...-software-flaw

Honestly, what did we expect?  They started as a Magic the Gathering card exchange.  Their security hasn't really been updated much from that setup.  

Out with the old, in with the new...

----------


## presence

> Does anyone know why the Bitstamp price is getting left behind the other exchanges all of a sudden?  That is, except for Mt. Gox, naturally.




Quite simply Bitstamp is out out of money.   There was a 10,000 BTC sell wall placed at stamp yesterday at 579.   More than half of it was bought.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Quite simply Bitstamp is out out of money.   There was a 10,000 BTC sell wall placed at stamp yesterday at 579.   More than half of it was bought.


How do you mean they're "out of money"?

----------


## presence

*Bitcoin’s Apocalyptic Moment: Mt. Gox may have lost 750,000 bitcoins*

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...may_have_lost/




> "For several weeks MtGox customers have been affected by bitcoin withdrawal issues that compounded on themselves. Publicly, MtGox declared that “transaction malleability” caused the system to be subject to theft, and that something needed to be done by the core devs to fix it.Gox’s own workaround solution was criticized, and eventually a fix was provided by Blockchain.info. The truth, it turns out, is that the damage had already been done. At this point 744,408 BTC are missing due to malleability-related theft which went unnoticed for several years.
> The cold storage has been wiped out due to a leak in the hot wallet. The reality is that MtGox can go bankrupt at any moment, and certainly deserves to as a company. However, with Bitcoin/crypto just recently gaining acceptance in the public eye, the likely damage in public perception to this class of technology could put it back 5~10 years, and cause governments to react swiftly and harshly.
> At the risk of appearing hyperbolic, this could be the end of Bitcoin, at least for most of the public. We believe in the value of Bitcoin, its potential to change the world, and its principles of transparency. Most importantly we care about the customers of MtGox and other bitcoin-based businesses who will be affected. The likely consequences will be larger than this localized financial damage, and we believe that the benefits of keeping MtGox stable and running outweigh the risks. This isn’t about saving MtGox anymore.”





> ufaild-1 points33 minutes ago
> Here's another *unverified* report from a totally legit source I can't name: MtGox discovered a unicorn that $#@!s gold bricks, solving all their financial troubles.





> Anon • an hour agoMy 2 cents. This was also the person who leaked the information about TRADE FORTRESS before anyone else in the public knew about it. 
> So even though this may sound like FUD right now please take into account how reliable he has been in the past with other leaks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also he is a writer for coindesk

----------


## presence

> How do you mean they're "out of money"?



3 million dollars was spent in less than 3 hours yesteday... and it was spent while NOBODY on the exchange was selling any coins except for a single party.  So anybody that was in coins... was still in coins and 3 million dollars worth of the people that were in fiat... were now in coins.  

So although they (the traders at bitstamp) are not "completely" out of fiat... they're collective buying pressure was significantly weakened.

----------


## amonasro

> *Bitcoin’s Apocalyptic Moment: Mt. Gox may have lost 750,000 bitcoins*
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...may_have_lost/


pure FUD. Can't believe you're reposting this here.

----------


## Dianne

> pure FUD. Can't believe you're reposting this here.


lol I see FUD in the trollbox all the time...    what does it mean?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This is not the Bitcoin apocalypse.

----------


## Dianne

> This is not the Bitcoin apocalypse.


I don't think so either, but I am a little nervous about investing at the moment..    Guess many are, is why the market is so weird.     I'm not sure where all these crazy rumors are coming from, and no idea what to believe or what not to believe...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> lol I see FUD in the trollbox all the time...    what does it mean?


Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt

----------


## Dianne

Coinbase just dipped to 483.. now back to 503..  tempting prices ...

----------


## Dianne

> Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt


Thank you !!!!   That is exactly the way I feel right now, lol ...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thank you !!!!   That is exactly the way I feel right now, lol ...


Me, too.  I really hope this gets resolved.

----------


## XTreat

I just got this in my in box


MtGox Situation: Crisis Strategy Draft

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/...Strategy-Draft

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Can BTC prices even recover until this gets resolved?  It seems unlikely that the market would rebound until the air is cleared of this major Mt. Gox mystery problem.

----------


## presence

> Joint Statement Regarding MtGox
> Feb 24th, 2014
> 
> The purpose of this document is to summarize a joint statement to the Bitcoin community regarding Mt.Gox.
> 
> This tragic violation of the trust of users of Mt.Gox was the result of one company’s actions and does not reflect the resilience or value of bitcoin and the digital currency industry. There are hundreds of trustworthy and responsible companies involved in bitcoin. These companies will continue to build the future of money by making bitcoin more secure and easy to use for consumers and merchants.  As with any new industry, there are certain bad actors that need to be weeded out, and that is what we are seeing today.  
> 
> We are confident, however, that strong Bitcoin companies, led by highly competent teams and backed by credible investors, will continue to thrive, and to fulfill the promise that bitcoin offers as the future of payment in the Internet age.
> 
> ...


http://blog.coinbase.com/post/777668...egarding-mtgox

http://blog.coinbase.com/


The line quoted above in purple was in the original release but has since been removed.

----------


## muh_roads

> http://blog.coinbase.com/post/777668...egarding-mtgox
> 
> http://blog.coinbase.com/
> 
> 
> The line quoted above in purple was in the original release but has since been removed.


Probably best they removed that line.  That steps on legal territory.

All in all that was a well written letter.  Cool to see a global community standing by each other.  I kinda liked seeing Coinbase, Bitstamp, and BTC China all standing together.  

Where is Kraken located?

btw I'm in @ 525 & 475.  Leaving my 450 up tonight to see if I can grab that one too.

Converting to LTC since that ratio is so low.  Hopefully it drops tonight too.  Excited.  This is what we've been waiting for.  Too bad there are so many haters.  Was hoping to have more RPF'ers ready to go.

----------


## muh_roads

> Can BTC prices even recover until this gets resolved?  It seems unlikely that the market would rebound until the air is cleared of this major Mt. Gox mystery problem.


You're being fearful.  Be greedy.

Remember back to that day when BTC dropped to 70 on news of the first SR shutting down?

This is that moment again.

----------


## Petar

So did someone steal 750,000 BTC or what?

----------


## muh_roads

> So did someone steal 750,000 BTC or what?


It reads as if the coins were not stolen, but double spent to the point of destruction through weak security and an easily exploitable trading engine.  The total supply cap is now 750K coins less.  This is what happens when you let Magic the Gathering nerds write a $#@!ty PHP engine.

At least BTC is now 6% more rare, heh.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Buy time or close yet. O?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Buy time or close yet. O?


Wow, low just then on BTC-e of $430.12 and Bitstamp of $401.69.  Been away from the computer all day.

If we cast our minds back to discussions in late January, we were speculating wouldn't it be nice to find $500 Bitcoin at the point of the end of this consolidation.

Right now by my reckoning, if things were normal, we would be somewhere between $580 and $620 and rather boringly sculpting our way down towards final consolidation, not this dramatic drop ending.

But clearly whatever is going on between the exchanges and in the market in general, this is accelerating the fall way too fast.  If someone just grabbed some $400 Bitcoin on BTC-e I say bravo to you, I think that was a good dollar-cost-averaging move.

By now you probably gather that I see final consoliation on 16 March 14, the next Full Moon.  Again I will explain why I've calculated it that way a bit later.

So given prices are way too low right now (to my way of thinking) we should see a snap back to at least the high $500 range ($580?).  That is what logic would tell us should be happening and just as fast as it has fallen . . . unless that is, there is not something else at play here we don't know about.

And we are still 20 days till the 16th of March.  Therefore I'm waiting to see what further surprises are in store before buying.  For by doing this, we might just see a $300 number on Bitcoin.  Hell we might even see a $200 number judging by this afternoons performance.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ia42864z8z...solidation.jpg

Addendum:  Rebound is already happening.  Back up over $500 on both Bitstamp and BTC-e.  Should at least get over $550.  Then notice Ichimoku Cloud which should slow it a bit.

----------


## newbitech

Now would be the perfect time for the devs to hard fork and fixes some of those core issues that have been put off cause a hard fork would cause the perceived value to drop. 

I'm calling it now.  Hard fork incoming.  More sane entry prices and price stabilization, and open the door for competition with the other named coins.  Out with the old, in with the new.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Now would be the perfect time for the devs to hard fork and fixes some of those core issues that have been put off cause a hard fork would cause the perceived value to drop. 
> 
> I'm calling it now.  Hard fork incoming.  More sane entry prices and price stabilization, and open the door for competition with the other named coins.  Out with the old, in with the new.


Ditto to that, I believe all Altcoins should begin their lives with a value of zero and an introductory price on the charts of 1 Satoshi, just as Bitcoin itself did.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Excellent Video, couldn't have said it better myself . . . just like the Banksters funded both sides of the war in World War I and World War 2.  But the people are awakening . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIWzg9LUfhQ

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qe4na99ad8...6-March-14.jpg

Hint #3:  Count the Blue and Grey vertical panels between Full and New Moons (from price Spike to Completed Consolidation).  The number is?  Next go back to April-July 13 and count the Blue and Grey vertical panels.  Noticing the difference?  For a QED, go back one further Spike Consolidation period and count the panels, and then one further, etc.  7-6-5-4-3-2-1   ;-)

The further we get into this, the longer its taking to consolidate and yet at the same time the average number of days between price spikes is still staying a consistent 237 ish days, or whatever the Precise New Moon date is.  Thus every 2nd consolidation will complete on a New Moon and vicey versa with the Full Moon.

Which is how you know what you will be doing on 26 July 14 and 22 November 14 (8 Panels).

. . . and which is why a direct linear mapping of price movements between periods does not work, unless you account for this elongation of consolidation periods  :-)

Example:

18 Aug 2012 -> 27 Oct 2012 = 70 Days
10 Apr 2013 -> 6 Jul 2013 = 87 Days
4 Dec 2013 -> 16 Mar 2014 = 102 Days
26 Jul 2014 -> 22 Nov 2014 = 119 Days

Date in Period 1 = X Days into Period 1

Date in Period 2 = X Days into Period 1 + [(Period 2 - Period 1) / (Period 2)]

A handy spreadsheet calculator should assist in quickly arriving at the equivalent date in Period 2

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You're being fearful.  Be greedy.
> 
> Remember back to that day when BTC dropped to 70 on news of the first SR shutting down?
> 
> This is that moment again.


I'll admit I'm a bit fearful.  The first SR shutdown seems pale in comparison to this.  As long as I know that SOMEBODY has the Mt. Gox BTC and it can go back into circulation, I think it will be okay.  Can anyone confirm or deny what the deal is with the "lost" BTC.  What happened to it?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Over at Bitcoin Wisdom, Mt. Gox no longer on menu list.

But this still works:

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

Related news:

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-loses...red-insolvent/

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-tradi...ure-investors/

That 28 Feb 14 bankruptcy prediction date looking mighty close at this point, if were not there already.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It reads as if the coins were not stolen, but double spent to the point of destruction through weak security and an easily exploitable trading engine.  The total supply cap is now 750K coins less.  This is what happens when you let Magic the Gathering nerds write a $#@!ty PHP engine.
> 
> At least BTC is now 6% more rare, heh.


Is this true?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Over at Bitcoin Wisdom, Mt. Gox no longer on menu list.
> 
> But this still works:
> 
> http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd
> 
> Related news:
> 
> http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-loses...red-insolvent/
> ...


The price on bitcoinwisdom has been frozen at 135 since yesterday.  There is no movement because there is no more trading.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Is this true?


News from 3 hours ago:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1O07920140225

Not sure we will ever know the truth.

Vid from 24 mins ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd0jMns_Neg

Looks like a long wait.  Would be so upset after putting all that time, effort and energy into it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> News from 3 hours ago:
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1O07920140225
> 
> Not sure we will ever know the truth.
> 
> Vid from 24 mins ago:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd0jMns_Neg
> ...


Wow.  Some bloke just lost $300k worth of bitcoin and he barely looks upset.  Still had the money to fly to Tokyo...

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Wow.  Some bloke just lost $300k worth of bitcoin and he barely looks upset.  Still had the money to fly to Tokyo...


600 coins . . . I am guessing the throwing of the pots and pans was a couple of weeks back, and now just living in hope that some solution would be arrived at.

----------


## muh_roads

Huobi volume @ 295k

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Are we still thinking LTC/BTC is a good play?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

My two bobs, for what its worth.  See LTC/BTC chart:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyudhvs26w...20Decision.jpg

Note Logarithmic scale.  Also note the current long standing penant or flag excludes the very spikey bit from 29 Nov - 4 Dec 14 (pure speculation and dumb money chasing it higher at that time, so it's easily ignored) and only includes the spike high and spike low touchpoints including our most recent one.

So it depends on your timeframe in your question.  Very near term between now and Saturday we should see Bitcoin rise further I feel which could see the LTC/BTC ratio increase as well, but I can't see it escaping the upper resistance line, particularly with all that is happening of late.  Meaning the two will most likely move in unison as they so often do (Bitcoin and Litecoin).

Longer term?  Well we know by 8 March we are coming to a decision point on this penant.  Should the Litecoin fan club decide to take it higher, then I do believe that this will be shortlived, particularly since BTC should be at around $450 on 8 March and all signs at that stage will be pointing to Bitcoin heading further down.  Will there be a desire to keep trying to push LTC higher without support from a rising BTC price in this environment?  I tend to think not.

As you will notice, should LTCBTC breakdown through the bottom support line on the flag, there is really nothing supporting it from going to 0.0155 and the fall could be quite dramatic.  Should this happen on 8 March 14 while BTC is at $450, of course this will mean LTC = $7.

From there notice also that there really isn't a lot of base building support holding it back from 0.01 and a $400 BTC price on 16 Mar 14  (if it were to happen this fast under recently found negative sentiment) could mean LTC = $4.  Should this occur, the resultant market cap would be $104 Million and I would say the DOGE's case is looking better and better all the time for #2 spot in the Mineables. Particularly by 20 April when the DOGE block reward halves yet again, most likely sending its price to 600 Satoshi's.  Therefore I know which #2 coin I would rather be in right now with a 2 month outlook.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> My two bobs, for what its worth.  See LTC/BTC chart:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyudhvs26w...20Decision.jpg
> 
> Note Logarithmic scale.  Also note the current long standing penant or flag excludes the very spikey bit from 29 Nov - 4 Dec 14 (pure speculation and dumb money chasing it higher at that time, so it's easily ignored) and only includes the spike high and spike low touchpoints including our most recent one.
> 
> So it depends on your timeframe in your question.  Very near term between now and Saturday we should see Bitcoin rise further I feel which could see the LTC/BTC ratio increase as well, but I can't see it escaping the upper resistance line, particularly with all that is happening of late.  Meaning the two will most likely move in unison as they so often do (Bitcoin and Litecoin).
> 
> Longer term?  Well we know by 8 March we are coming to a decision point on this penant.  Should the Litecoin fan club decide to take it higher, then I do believe that this will be shortlived, particularly since BTC should be at around $450 on 8 March and all signs at that stage will be pointing to Bitcoin heading further down.  Will there be a desire to keep trying to push LTC higher without support from a rising BTC price in this environment?  I tend to think not.
> ...


Which exchange did you say you used to trade DOGE?

----------


## XTreat

> Which exchange did you say you used to trade DOGE?


I use Cryptsy, which has been much better lately since they added some new servers. In all I am happy with them both depositing and withdrawing. 

If you also choose to use Cryptsy I would ask you use this link to sign up as it it is my referral link. 

https://www.cryptsy.com/users/register?refid=21357

----------


## Dianne

> My two bobs, for what its worth.  See LTC/BTC chart:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyudhvs26w...20Decision.jpg
> 
> Note Logarithmic scale.  Also note the current long standing penant or flag excludes the very spikey bit from 29 Nov - 4 Dec 14 (pure speculation and dumb money chasing it higher at that time, so it's easily ignored) and only includes the spike high and spike low touchpoints including our most recent one.
> 
> So it depends on your timeframe in your question.  Very near term between now and Saturday we should see Bitcoin rise further I feel which could see the LTC/BTC ratio increase as well, but I can't see it escaping the upper resistance line, particularly with all that is happening of late.  Meaning the two will most likely move in unison as they so often do (Bitcoin and Litecoin).
> 
> Longer term?  Well we know by 8 March we are coming to a decision point on this penant.  Should the Litecoin fan club decide to take it higher, then I do believe that this will be shortlived, particularly since BTC should be at around $450 on 8 March and all signs at that stage will be pointing to Bitcoin heading further down.  Will there be a desire to keep trying to push LTC higher without support from a rising BTC price in this environment?  I tend to think not.
> ...


Scenario isn't looking too hot then.    I think I'll try to ditch my ltc at any opportunity where I can break even or a very small loss to get back into fiat.   That $4.00 LTC sure is looking good though.

----------


## presence

I was banned from trollbox today for saying BTCe was built like a brick $#@!house.  


Lulz

----------


## presence

_Mt. Gox_ receives _subpoena_ from federal prosecutor - WSJ
Reuters ‎- 8 minutes ago
Feb 25 (Reuters) - Bitcoin exchange _Mt. Gox_ has received a_subpoena_ from federal prosecutors in New York, the Wall Street Journal reported, *...*

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I use Cryptsy, which has been much better lately since they added some new servers. In all I am happy with them both depositing and withdrawing. 
> 
> If you also choose to use Cryptsy I would ask you use this link to sign up as it it is my referral link. 
> 
> https://www.cryptsy.com/users/register?refid=21357


Sorry, I've been using Cryptsy as well.  Just didn't know if there had been any recent updates on their performance.  Thanks for that!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

OK BTC on Bitstamp back over $600.  Lickety-split just like that.  $609 achieved, shouldn't be going up to former spike resistance of $623 because that would be out of character for what is coming next.

Now we can resume our regularly scheduled programming, unless that is some external forces decide to intervene again.

----------


## muh_roads

I got a lot in the 400's.  Not everything, but a majority chunk.

Now what to do with it.  More Doge or LTC?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> OK BTC on Bitstamp back over $600.  Lickety-split just like that.  $609 achieved, shouldn't be going up to former spike resistance of $623 because that would be out of character for what is coming next.
> 
> Now we can resume our regularly scheduled programming, unless that is some external forces decide to intervene again.


I assumed it was already out of character.  It seemed like a dramatic rise.

----------


## muh_roads

> I assumed it was already out of character.  It seemed like a dramatic rise.


The next paradigm run is about to begin.  Just wait until the new Singapore Gox is announced to honor all customer funds.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The next paradigm run is about to begin.  Just wait until the new Singapore Gox is announced to honor all customer funds.


That would be interesting, indeed.  I hope they do it.

----------


## muh_roads

Official video from their site.  Nice touch adding the little reddit character waving goodbye as it flies to the moon...lol

I think every teenage kid in America that has access to the internet is using reddit.  That website is so busy and chaotic.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Official video from their site.  Nice touch adding the little reddit character waving goodbye as it flies to the moon...lol
> 
> I think every teenage kid in America that has access to the internet is using reddit.  That website is so busy and chaotic.


Loved the video.  If SomewhereInOz is right about this and nothing else, he deserves a tip.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I assumed it was already out of character.  It seemed like a dramatic rise.


No, its back to playing exactly as it should.  A nice smooth down from here.

----------


## muh_roads

How do I buy goxcoins if I don't have an account?  I feel like attempting with a portion of my 350 buy wall instead.

----------


## muh_roads

> Loved the video.  If SomewhereInOz is right about this and nothing else, he deserves a tip.


I'll have both Oz and pres tippage covered after our stakes are claimed and we head into the next paradigm.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> _Mt. Gox_ receives _subpoena_ from federal prosecutor - WSJ
> Reuters ‎- 8 minutes ago
> Feb 25 (Reuters) - Bitcoin exchange _Mt. Gox_ has received a_subpoena_ from federal prosecutors in New York, the Wall Street Journal reported, *...*


Biggest mistake mtgox made was trying to establish a base of operations in the u.s. - It is regulatory hell, with agencies that have arbitrary powers to demand information, while keeping you for saying in public that requests have been made.

Oh and continuing to transfer BTC from cold storage to online wallet without checking to see if anything was amiss, and/or raising flags when funds were confirmed to be missing.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> I was banned from trollbox today for saying BTCe was built like a brick $#@!house.  
> 
> 
> Lulz


They have a bot using a list of words that cause an auto-ban. You can tell by who it is that's banning you.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> It reads as if the coins were not stolen, but double spent to the point of destruction through weak security and an easily exploitable trading engine.  The total supply cap is now 750K coins less.  This is what happens when you let Magic the Gathering nerds write a $#@!ty PHP engine.
> 
> At least BTC is now 6% more rare, heh.


That doesn't match how I understood the whole malleability problem. They're only fudging the transaction ID, not the from/to wallet addresses. I.e. the transaction would always go to a valid wallet. So the culprits have them.

The only explanation I can find for btc "being missing" would be if people did millions of transactions for small amounts in order to exploit this. It would look like a DDoS, but the "extra money" would go to miners as fee, it wouldn't be deleted from the money supply.

----------


## lotsOfCake

I'm finding myself not being confident that 450 ish was the bottom...... 
That is where i assumed the bottom would be. But the timeline was a bit off. Maybe expectations of where the market will go is accellerating the bubble cycle?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciNtlaLBWGU


Seems to be pointing to the Techno-Algo trader types that the Web Bots were talking about.  15 more days to go . . .

Meanwhile Silver's had another smack.  Very close to breaking 3 year resistance you see, can't be having that happen too quickly.

Seems interest in Silver is going very strong and that the 384% increase in chatter is beginning to happen:

http://srsroccoreport.com/u-s-mint-u...t-in-two-days/

----------


## Dianne

I dumped all my ltc last night while sleeping.   I placed a sell order for $14.90 at btc-e which is .20 more than I paid for them.  Luckily they just made that price then started dropping again.     I think I'm going to stay in fiat for a while.    I think the market is way too volatile right now.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I dumped all my ltc last night while sleeping.   I placed a sell order for $14.90 at btc-e which is .20 more than I paid for them.  Luckily they just made that price then started dropping again.     I think I'm going to stay in fiat for a while.    I think the market is way too volatile right now.


Luckily, I dodged that bullet, too.  I had convinced myself to stay out of LTC for a long time, not sure why I thought anything would change.  Glad to see we both escaped the worst of it, though.

----------


## Dianne

> Luckily, I dodged that bullet, too.  I had convinced myself to stay out of LTC for a long time, not sure why I thought anything would change.  Glad to see we both escaped the worst of it, though.


No Joke!!!   Especially when you see posts here over the last few hours saying ltc can go as low as $7.00 in a week or so.    I'm breathing a sigh of relief at the moment.    Of course, now that I am out; it probably will go over $100. in the next two days lolol.

Great work on getting out.    That was a close one lol..

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I dumped all my ltc last night while sleeping.   I placed a sell order for $14.90 at btc-e which is .20 more than I paid for them.  Luckily they just made that price then started dropping again.     I think I'm going to stay in fiat for a while.    I think the market is way too volatile right now.


Staying in fiat might be a good idea for the moment if you are not feeling confident, until you are convinced a good opportunity is there and will work for you.  Shouldn't be too long to wait, we will see a test this weekend with the New Moon.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3i4pueoy6u...20Feb%2014.jpg

It will be interesting to see if this bottom in DOGE is real and whether the rising trendline will remain in tact while Bitcoin rises a bit through the New Moon (or stays steady) and then continues falling.  If you look back one cycle in the chart DOGE seems primed to rise a bit (to say 204) and then fall (to say 194) if it mimics that old move.  It will also be interesting to see what it does after that. (Note:  The distance between peaks looks similar to the distance between the two bottoms).

I'm still hoping DOGE will move sideways or fall through the next two weeks, but this chart is not giving me a warm feeling that will happen.  Now at 5.8 million through mining, should be at 6 million early next week, but I want to purchase more and hopefully with the cheapest BTC possible

Note:  Trying to map out the lunar phases with DOGE, but its so new that so far only a few of the moves have adhered to phase cycles of the moon.  The rest just happened when the market decided it was time.  I think that as time goes by and as more trading/data is available it should settle into a more predictable cycle.

Also note, the initial spike to 298 at Bter didn't happen at Cryptsy.  I think at Cryptsy the first high was 138 Satoshi's

Addendum:  You know its just dawned on me but, with all this thinking that this New Moon will be kinda so so for BTC (a slight rise and then a continuation of the fall), watch DOGE go and pull a launch on us.  It seems it could be setting itself up for that.  A bummer that would be, not ready to buy yet.  My purchase plans are for 2 weeks hence.

----------


## Dianne

> Staying in fiat might be a good idea for the moment if you are not feeling confident, until you are convinced a good opportunity is there and will work for you.  Shouldn't be too long to wait, we will see a test this weekend with the New Moon.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3i4pueoy6u...20Feb%2014.jpg
> 
> It will be interesting to see if this bottom in DOGE is real and whether the rising trendline will remain in tact while Bitcoin rises a bit through the New Moon (or stays steady) and then continues falling.  If you look back one cycle in the chart DOGE seems primed to rise a bit and then fall if it mimics that old move.  It will also be interesting to see what it does after that.
> 
> I'm still hoping DOGE will move sideways or fall through the next two weeks, but this chart is not giving me a warm feeling that will happen.  Now at 5.8 million through mining, should be at 6 million early next week, but I want to purchase more and hopefully with the cheapest BTC possible
> 
> Note:  Trying to map out the lunar phases with DOGE, but its so new that so far only a few of the moves have adhered to phase cycles of the moon.  The rest just happened when the market decided it was time.  I think that as time goes by and as more trading/data is available it should settle into a more predictable cycle.


I would love to see btc-e replace xpm with DOGE.   They would get tons for traffic and sales.

----------


## amonasro

> The next paradigm run is about to begin.  Just wait until the new Singapore Gox is announced to honor all customer funds.


Hope you are right. 




> How do I buy goxcoins if I don't have an account?  I feel like attempting with a portion of my 350 buy wall instead.


Bitcoinbuilder. Their site was down just a minute ago. If Gox comes back and enables withdrawals you can pull your goxbtc from there to a real wallet (read the FAQ to be sure on this). It's a huge gamble, especially now, but the potential upside is 10:1. I personally risked a few real coins and now have over 50 goxcoins. I'm considering them lost at this point, but I'll buy everyone drinks if Gox somehow pulls through 




> I dumped all my ltc last night while sleeping.   I placed a sell order for $14.90 at btc-e which is .20 more than I paid for them.  Luckily they just made that price then started dropping again.     I think I'm going to stay in fiat for a while.    I think the market is way too volatile right now.


The downtrend looks as it hasn't reversed on the 1d chart. I'm looking for a double bottom, but imo the Gox mess needs to play itself out before we go up.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I would love to see btc-e replace xpm with DOGE.   They would get tons for traffic and sales.


Yes was looking at XPM yesterday.  Hadn't had a look in a long while.  That is one very sick looking chart right about now.

Bter is where the Chinese trade their DOGE and they do seem keen on it, so yes BTC-e would definitely benefit from offering it.

----------


## Dianne

> Hope you are right. 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoinbuilder. Their site was down just a minute ago. If Gox comes back and enables withdrawals you can pull your goxbtc from there to a real wallet (read the FAQ to be sure on this). It's a huge gamble, especially now, but the potential upside is 10:1. I personally risked a few real coins and now have over 50 goxcoins. I'm considering them lost at this point, but I'll buy everyone drinks if Gox somehow pulls through 
> 
> 
> 
> The downtrend looks as it hasn't reversed on the 1d chart. I'm looking for a double bottom, but imo the Gox mess needs to play itself out before we go up.


There is so much uncertainty re Gox, that every 15 minutes a new rumor hits the trollbox, and people panic lol...   Gox needs to decide what they are going to do, once and for all !!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Staying in fiat might be a good idea for the moment if you are not feeling confident, until you are convinced a good opportunity is there and will work for you.  Shouldn't be too long to wait, we will see a test this weekend with the New Moon.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3i4pueoy6u...20Feb%2014.jpg
> 
> It will be interesting to see if this bottom in DOGE is real and whether the rising trendline will remain in tact while Bitcoin rises a bit through the New Moon (or stays steady) and then continues falling.  If you look back one cycle in the chart DOGE seems primed to rise a bit (to say 204) and then fall (to say 194) if it mimics that old move.  It will also be interesting to see what it does after that. (Note:  The distance between peaks looks similar to the distance between the two bottoms).
> 
> I'm still hoping DOGE will move sideways or fall through the next two weeks, but this chart is not giving me a warm feeling that will happen.  Now at 5.8 million through mining, should be at 6 million early next week, but I want to purchase more and hopefully with the cheapest BTC possible
> 
> Note:  Trying to map out the lunar phases with DOGE, but its so new that so far only a few of the moves have adhered to phase cycles of the moon.  The rest just happened when the market decided it was time.  I think that as time goes by and as more trading/data is available it should settle into a more predictable cycle.
> ...


I'm already in Doge and experiencing gains, so I can't say I share your sentiment.  I will be looking for that small 204 peak, though.  Every satoshi counts.

----------


## Dianne

> Yes was looking at XPM yesterday.  Hadn't had a look in a long while.  That is one very sick looking chart right about now.
> 
> Bter is where the Chinese trade their DOGE and they do seem keen on it, so yes BTC-e would definitely benefit from offering it.


To da MOON !!!!    Unfortunately you get banned on btc-e for 30 minutes or so if you even mention DOGE.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

. . . both entertaining and very informative.  Sean David Morton and "V" The Guerilla Economist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWMz2Dn_VdA

An economic history lesson these last 10-15 years along with explanations as to why each Bankster has suicided and how they are connected.

Implications surrounding 3rd Week/4th Week of April coming up as well (take note of the dates and all the Uranus Square Plutos going on right now, the Germans in the early 30's would probably wish they would have - the last time this happened)

• Uranus square Pluto June 24 2012 - Mursi Elected as President of Egypt
• Uranus square Pluto September 19 2012 - US Embassy Closures ME, China v Japan Rising
• Uranus square Pluto May 21 2013 - Moore, OK 2 Mile Wide Tornado, Obama Week of Crises
• Uranus square Pluto November 1 2013 - Forgot to add what happened on this date
• Uranus square Pluto April 21 2014
• Uranus square Pluto December 15 2014
• Uranus square Pluto March 17 2015

3.5 Trillion stolen on 911 2008 between the hours of 9 and 11 AM?  Wow, first I've ever heard anyone mention that.  Speculation of course, but now we can see why it was nearly a TEOTWAWKI moment at the start of the GFC in 08.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I got a lot in the 400's.  Not everything, but a majority chunk.
> 
> Now what to do with it.  More Doge or LTC?


Noticing what the DOGE is doing right now just 2 days out from the New Moon?  and the chart symmetry?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_trading.phtml

Take note when the author mentions its not just the Full Moon and New Moon.  Also keep an eye on the first quarter and last quarter for points where you often find major reversals.

Pull up a chart in Trading View and turn on the lunar indicator and check it out with some historical trading data.  You will find some interesting observations which may help in the months to come - movements can get amplified on the first/last quarter of the moon and otherwise reversals right on those dates (e.g. the start of some moves up from a previous downtrend).

Full List of Dates here:

http://www.ga.gov.au/earth-monitorin...-the-moon.html

http://www.ga.gov.au/earth-monitorin...-the-moon.html

Notice most importantly what is coming up on 8 March 2014 . . . Remember that LTC situation we were discussing?  ;-)

----------


## Dianne

> . . . both entertaining and very informative.  Sean David Morton and "V" The Guerilla Economist
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWMz2Dn_VdA
> 
> An economic history lesson these last 10-15 years along with explanations as to why each Bankster has suicided and how they are connected.
> 
> Implications surrounding 3rd Week/4th Week of April coming up as well (take note of the dates and all the Uranus Square Plutos going on right now, the Germans in the early 30's would probably wish they would have - the last time this happened)
> 
> • Uranus square Pluto June 24 2012 - Mursi Elected as President of Egypt
> ...


Time to get all fiat out of the bank.    I just don't know what to do with it ( .

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> Time to get all fiat out of the bank.    I just don't know what to do with it ( .


Silver sorted yet?  Seems JPM just provided another gift.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/njjaf1yt8e...Pre-Launch.jpg

----------


## FSP-Rebel

In semi-related news, got an email from amagimetals saying they now accept LTC & DOGE in addition to the daddy.

----------


## Dianne

> Silver sorted yet?  Seems JPM just provided another gift.


I'm checking it out right now..  There's another thread I'm following "Silver Madness", I think is the name.     I'm just debating if better to buy online versus Craigslist... right now leaning towards Craigslist for various reasons.     I'm just going to do silver, because if the shtf I think silver would be easier to barter with ...     Can you imagine trying to buy a generator with a gold coin and hoping they can give you change lol.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm checking it out right now..  There's another thread I'm following "Silver Madness", I think is the name.     I'm just debating if better to buy online versus Craigslist... right now leaning towards Craigslist for various reasons.     I'm just going to do silver, because if the shtf I think silver would be easier to barter with ...     Can you imagine trying to buy a generator with a gold coin and hoping they can give you change lol.


Silver is definitely the better choice right now.  I've been waiting for 2 years to see silver do this, and it's going to outpace gold for sure.  That is, if they don't somehow squelch its upward movement again.

----------


## Dianne

> . . . both entertaining and very informative.  Sean David Morton and "V" The Guerilla Economist
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWMz2Dn_VdA
> 
> An economic history lesson these last 10-15 years along with explanations as to why each Bankster has suicided and how they are connected.
> 
> Implications surrounding 3rd Week/4th Week of April coming up as well (take note of the dates and all the Uranus Square Plutos going on right now, the Germans in the early 30's would probably wish they would have - the last time this happened)
> 
>  Uranus square Pluto June 24 2012 - Mursi Elected as President of Egypt
> ...


I listened to half the interview yesterday, and the rest today.    It sucked at the end when he is getting ready to tell us how much time we have before the collapse.   Sears going under, Penny's going under, 32% unemployment, the dollar is now the most toxic asset in the world, get out of anything paper including 401k - 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing .....    then he got cut off  grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, show over.

A very interesting interview, as it ties all the suicides together and predicts up to 43 bankers on a list for extinction.

Another big take-away, he says he wouldn't own a chicken coop in the United States and if you own any property outright to plead foreign standing and create an international holding company - title the real property to the international holding company.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jls3ikuom8...w-Moon-BTC.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I listened to half the interview yesterday, and the rest today.    It sucked at the end when he is getting ready to tell us how much time we have before the collapse.   Sears going under, Penny's going under, 32% unemployment, the dollar is now the most toxic asset in the world, get out of anything paper including 401k - 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing .....    then he got cut off  grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, show over.
> 
> A very interesting interview, as it ties all the suicides together and predicts up to 43 bankers on a list for extinction.
> 
> Another big take-away, he says he wouldn't own a chicken coop in the United States and if you own any property outright to plead foreign standing and create an international holding company - title the real property to the international holding company.


Look here's the deal.  Pareto Principle - 80/20 Rule.  80% of what Clif High and the Web Bots say happens.  20% doesn't.  Lets just pray that the North American Diaspora thingo remains in that 20% box.

Equally 20/80 Rule - 20% of what the Web Bots predict is spot on in timing.  80% isn't.

Just has me intrigued how he has this Bankster Suicide thing so damned spot on this time around in the latest Web Bot report (20 Jan 14).

Next 2 things to watch for right now are:

1.  Red Tide in China - News of Banks there failing (if you will notice a number have been bailed out in recent weeks by the Chinese Govt).

2.  Hints that EVERYTHING on the DOW and S&P is revealed as worthless pieces of JUNK.  We know this rise and rise of the stock markets is totally Fed sponsored and manipulated.

When these two indicators become apparent along with all the Bankster Suicides, it will be the signal for the Real Estate Bubble to pop and that signal should be watched for first in Canada.

This is all going to happen very quick apparently.

Leads me to think 13 March 14 will be significant just based on the Bankster Suicide thing.  Will there be an event on that day which we will publicly recognise?  Probably not.  But just thereafter you should see the news of Bankster Suicides drop dramatically.

Our indicator will be the obvious easing of Precious Metals Price manipulation.  For example Silver moves freely past 3 year resistance and back to $26?

The really big moves in Gold and Silver will come by late April, which takes me back to the all important dates of 20 April 14 and 21 April 14 . . . Just what happens then that rocks the planet?  And will those be the key milestone dates which blow this whole Bitcoin predictability thing right out of the water?  Fark I could be out of a job  :-)  Lets just say you would be wise to be bedded down in BTC and Altcoins then just in case (e.g. Portfolio % BTC and % DOGE and % of whatever else you reckon will do a moonshot).  Note:  Isn't it amazing that the next DOGE Reward Halving is, by my calculations, due to occur on 20 April 14?

BTW Clif has been interviewed a number of times by SDM, and these are always interesting interviews . . . their both "Universe" kinda people.  AKA, to quote Clif, Universe has brought us Bitcoin at this specific time in our history because Universe knows WEZZA F*cked AND WEZZA Need a solution away from the Banksters control plan right about now for survival in our SOC's (Self Organizing Collectives).  SOC's are places we live in when there is no more GUS (Gubment US) . . . watch for news that the US Fed will be totally inconsequential by late April 2014.

Was going to point you guys in the direction of last Friday's C2C interview with "V".  Haven't even listened to it yet myself, probably a waste of time because the Globalist New World Order Shill George Noory was never going to ask the right questions that Sean did you see.  ;-)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lwnAL6TvkE

----------


## SomewhereInOz

. . . we grab hold of our Bibles and flip here:

http://biblehub.com/1_thessalonians/5-3.htm

and then we watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TkA_Bncn_k

April 19th eh?  Be Prepared!

Silver First . . . Cryptos Second!!!

. . . and Oh Hell Ya, a one way ticket to the Southern Hemisphere for a holiday for what's coming!  T'is why I'm here  :-)

But don't be fooled . . . when this thing goes down, ain't no place on planet earth that will be safe!  You just get a couple of extra weeks to watch it all unfold.

----------


## Dianne

Since my last posting, I've been doing a lot of research and found Cook Islands is a fabulous place to set up an offshore LLC and then open a bank account there in the name of the LLC.    There are companies that will do all of it for you within two days..   Only thing is not knowing if they are trustworthy.   You can only put business assets into the LLC (real property included), but you can't put personal assets i.e., jewelry, etc.    The other way you can go is an offshore trust that you can place all your assets into where the U.S. or anyone trying to take your stuff has no jurisdiction.

Anyhoo, I'm going to shop for silver ( I have none) and get out of the toxic u.s. dollar post haste.

----------


## Dianne

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lwnAL6TvkE


arghhh

----------


## 69360

> I'm checking it out right now..  There's another thread I'm following "Silver Madness", I think is the name.     I'm just debating if better to buy online versus Craigslist... right now leaning towards Craigslist for various reasons.     I'm just going to do silver, because if the shtf I think silver would be easier to barter with ...     Can you imagine trying to buy a generator with a gold coin and hoping they can give you change lol.


Nobody post shtf will trade anything for gold. It will be useless. Who in their right mind after a catastrophic event in survival mode would trade useful goods for a lump of metal. What are you going to do with gold? Can't eat it, can't shoot it, doesn't make life better it will have no value. Generators will lose value within months. The supply chain for gasoline is very short, less than a week usually, it will run out fast and stockpiles only go so far.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Nobody post shtf will trade anything for gold. It will be useless. Who in their right mind after a catastrophic event in survival mode would trade useful goods for a lump of metal. What are you going to do with gold? Can't eat it, can't shoot it, doesn't make life better it will have no value. Generators will lose value within months. The supply chain for gasoline is very short, less than a week usually, it will run out fast and stockpiles only go so far.


That's right, everybody panic!  Because rest assured, the S will HTF, no questions.  It's as good as done that the only possible scenario that could unfold now is American turning into a war zone post-crash.  Think about it... what else could possibly happen but all of America turning into a war zone?  Run for the hills and cower with your ridiculous amount of ammo and guns.  No gold, though!  You can't eat gold!

----------


## Dianne

> Nobody post shtf will trade anything for gold. It will be useless. Who in their right mind after a catastrophic event in survival mode would trade useful goods for a lump of metal. What are you going to do with gold? Can't eat it, can't shoot it, doesn't make life better it will have no value. Generators will lose value within months. The supply chain for gasoline is very short, less than a week usually, it will run out fast and stockpiles only go so far.


What about silver for barter since it comes in smaller denominations?    I'm just thinking in the dollar is worthless, and the local gas station finally reopens; maybe you could pay with silver.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What about silver for barter since it comes in smaller denominations?    I'm just thinking in the dollar is worthless, and the local gas station finally reopens; maybe you could pay with silver.


This all assumes there will be an apocalyptic crash and scattering of society into the nether regions where each clan will huddle and hoard whatever they can.  I, personally, don't think this is a likely scenario, at least not in the near future.  People who say this will happen usually compare it to Bosnia, a war-torn country post-civil war.  This is an extreme reach because nobody has the foreknowledge to have any idea about exactly what's going to happen.  There are many different ways it could play out, not just complete and sudden anarchy like in a war zone.  If you ask me, they could probably drag this out for quite a while longer.  People have been calling for the crash for a long time and they still manage to patch it over.  Few people know how or why, but something does have to happen eventually.  We just may not necessarily expect it.  

It's an interesting thing to think about because, on the one hand, many SHTF people just assume that the Keynesians-in-control will just willy-nilly lose control of the whole apparatus at some point and the whole thing will spin into chaos because, well, the central planners either don't know what they're doing or planned to lose control.  How likely does that sound, once you really get down to it?  They just started this whole apparatus and continue to maintain this facade despite the system eventually becoming too hot for them to handle?  I don't believe it.  They know what they're doing.

However... on the other hand, nobody really knows what other situation might play out, so we just assume complete chaos is the most likely scenario because it sounds cool, like a video game or something.  Admittedly, though, there is a lack of concrete explanations for what's going to happen post crash.  There may be a transition of some sort into a new currency, but none of this is really known.  I really don't think the unraveling of anything is imminent, though.  I don't think putting your real estate in off-shore LLCs is necessary, but perhaps that's just me.  Your local gas station might fall on hard times, and the atmosphere might be hectic, but I don't expect it to be your only bastion of civilization in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where people have no choice but to trade ammo for food and become roaming nomads.

----------


## Dianne

> This all assumes there will be an apocalyptic crash and scattering of society into the nether regions where each clan will huddle and hoard whatever they can.  I, personally, don't think this is a likely scenario, at least not in the near future.  People who say this will happen usually compare it to Bosnia, a war-torn country post-civil war.  This is an extreme reach because nobody has the foreknowledge to have any idea about exactly what's going to happen.  There are many different ways it could play out, not just complete and sudden anarchy like in a war zone.  If you ask me, they could probably drag this out for quite a while longer.  People have been calling for the crash for a long time and they still manage to patch it over.  Few people know how or why, but something does have to happen eventually.  We just may not necessarily expect it.  
> 
> It's an interesting thing to think about because, on the one hand, many SHTF people just assume that the Keynesians-in-control will just willy-nilly lose control of the whole apparatus at some point and the whole thing will spin into chaos because, well, the central planners either don't know what they're doing or planned to lose control.  How likely does that sound, once you really get down to it?  They just started this whole apparatus and continue to maintain this facade despite the system eventually becoming too hot for them to handle?  I don't believe it.  They know what they're doing.
> 
> However... on the other hand, nobody really knows what other situation might play out, so we just assume complete chaos is the most likely scenario because it sounds cool, like a video game or something.  Admittedly, though, there is a lack of concrete explanations for what's going to happen post crash.  There may be a transition of some sort into a new currency, but none of this is really known.  I really don't think the unraveling of anything is imminent, though.  I don't think putting your real estate in off-shore LLCs is necessary, but perhaps that's just me.  Your local gas station might fall on hard times, and the atmosphere might be hectic, but I don't expect it to be your only bastion of civilization in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where people have no choice but to trade ammo for food and become roaming nomads.


It seems so many world events are signaling a financial collapse is coming soon.    Foreign countries are ditching the dollar for example, the suicides (destroy the witnesses), the militarized police preparing for crowd control.    And if there is a financial collapse, there will be an immediate freeze of all bank accounts.    In-fact, we will probably wake up with no warning whatsoever to prevent a run on the banks.  Just thinking we all need to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

----------


## muh_roads

I'm beginning to think Litecoin will have no future.  It didn't get a big enough head start on the other Scrypt coins that copied its algorithm.  It really doesn't offer anything amazing or different.

This Dogecoin thing is everywhere...lol  It's tough to mine and still so cheap.  Teenage kids love sending Doge's to each other, not LTC.

LTC will still be a good coin to swing trade on though until the great consolidation.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> It seems so many world events are signaling a financial collapse is coming soon.    Foreign countries are ditching the dollar for example, the suicides (destroy the witnesses), the militarized police preparing for crowd control.    And if there is a financial collapse, there will be an immediate freeze of all bank accounts.    In-fact, we will probably wake up with no warning whatsoever to prevent a run on the banks.  Just thinking we all need to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


First step is to get all that cash out of the bank.  If you haven't tried this before, watch how difficult they make it for you to do so.  A trick that works best is to go to multiple branches and slowly pull out as much as you can each day.

Down here, as far back as 2 years ago, when I asked for quantities greater than $4,000, I was told you will have to give us 3-4 days notice for that.  So the easier solution, and yes this takes time and petrol, is to just map out all the branches locally and head from one to the other to the other and pull out $3,000 - $4,000 at a time.

Banks don't hold cash now because its a one way trip with them, and everyone uses credit cards and debit cards to pay for stuff.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gll4y917h...Auroracoin.jpg

Auroracoin . . . Oh yeah, that will be going down fast . . . 15 minutes of fame type stuff.

$6.69 . . . rotate the 9 . . . nice choice but still won't work for you Auroracoin

----------


## muh_roads

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gll4y917h...Auroracoin.jpg
> 
> Auroracoin . . . Oh yeah, that will be going down fast . . . 15 minutes of fame type stuff.
> 
> $6.69 . . . rotate the 9 . . . nice choice but still won't work for you Auroracoin


What's the story behind that one?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2fswpmy81h...ckDuckCoin.jpg

Just what the world needs now, a DuckDuckCoin

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> What's the story behind that one?


Not sure but its just jumped to $7.81

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It seems so many world events are signaling a financial collapse is coming soon.    Foreign countries are ditching the dollar for example, the suicides (destroy the witnesses), the militarized police preparing for crowd control.    And if there is a financial collapse, there will be an immediate freeze of all bank accounts.    In-fact, we will probably wake up with no warning whatsoever to prevent a run on the banks.  Just thinking we all need to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


That may be, but financial meltdown doesn't have to mean the end of civilization and going back to a barter system.  I honestly don't think it will come to that.  They will paper it over somehow, even if they have to phase out the dollar and "save us" with something new.  

Remember, people have been predicting the end times for centuries, but they all forgot to be patient.  Who knows what's going on with the bankers.  Something sinister, it seems, but the results of that are yet to be determined.  For what it's worth, you're right.  We should all prepare for the worst and hope for the best, but we can also have honest opinions, and mine doesn't include roving around the countryside like a pack of wild animals in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.  That's for the sci-fi movies.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> What's the story behind that one?


http://www.auroracoin.org/

Ah its an Icelander Coin.  Seeing as they were the only nation with the guts to kick out the Banksters, maybe it might work and be one to watch.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm beginning to think Litecoin will have no future.  It didn't get a big enough head start on the other Scrypt coins that copied its algorithm.  It really doesn't offer anything amazing or different.
> 
> This Dogecoin thing is everywhere...lol  It's tough to mine and still so cheap.  Teenage kids love sending Doge's to each other, not LTC.
> 
> LTC will still be a good coin to swing trade on though until the great consolidation.


I've actually found that Doge is way better to swing trade, as well as many of the other cheap, mass-produced coins.  One satoshi of a Doge's price has a relatively huge impact on the value of your stash, whereas a millionth of a BTC swing on a LTC means virtually nothing alone.  All it would take to gain 1 whole BTC with 5 million Doges (about 9.5 BTC worth) is 20 satoshis.  That's it.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I've actually found that Doge is way better to swing trade, as well as many of the other cheap, mass-produced coins.  One satoshi of a Doge's price has a relatively huge impact on the value of your stash, whereas a millionth of a BTC swing on a LTC means virtually nothing alone.  All it would take to gain 1 whole BTC with 5 million Doges (about 9.5 BTC worth) is 20 satoshis.  That's it.


Did you see the story today of the Entrepreneur guy in Wisconsin selling his $135,000 vacation home for 100,000,000 DOGE's.  So long as stories like this flourish, 3352 will be the port on Multipool where my rigs are pointed to.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://coinjokes.cravegig.com/

Just noticed a pretty big uptick at Coin Jokes.  Lots of more people playing around there.

10 REDD's coming into the wallet per gag and per positive uptick is another good indicator.  Beats mining them, but also lets me know just how many people are showing an interest in REDD.

REDD still showing 1/3 of what has by now been mined.  Should be interesting to see how they pan out.  Now up to 13.2 Million REDD's.  Just going to sit tight and watch over the next few months.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Did you see the story today of the Entrepreneur guy in Wisconsin selling his $135,000 vacation home for 100,000,000 DOGE's.  So long as stories like this flourish, 3352 will be the port on Multipool where my rigs are pointed to.


I had not heard of that.  That is very interesting.  

Are you saying 3352 satoshi?  How is that possible?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> I had not heard of that.  That is very interesting.  
> 
> Are you saying 3352 satoshi?  How is that possible?


No, 3352 is the port that one points their mining rig to at Multipool.us to solely mine DOGE as opposed to 7777 to just mine whatever the server algos reckon is the most profitable at that moment.

Funny, 3352 is the PostCode for Ballarat down here:

http://www.postcodes-australia.com/postcodes/3352

So maybe its just meant to be.

196 Satoshi's was the actual recent bottom for the DOGE?  Still watching, but oh yeah Shiba Inu launch is coming!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Are you saying 3352 satoshi?  How is that possible?


nvmd

----------


## SomewhereInOz

LOL just look at how these cookie cutouts express surprise at what's going down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOBqw9ge3M

Mainstream Media?  Could you be bothered even turning on the TV anymore to gag at these AssClowns?  Me?  It's just a visual rectangle for the PlayStation and a bit of funnin' around with COD BlackOps II Zombies.  Because I would rather be shooting up Zombies than watching them live!  :-)

----------


## muh_roads

> I've actually found that Doge is way better to swing trade, as well as many of the other cheap, mass-produced coins.  One satoshi of a Doge's price has a relatively huge impact on the value of your stash, whereas a millionth of a BTC swing on a LTC means virtually nothing alone.  All it would take to gain 1 whole BTC with 5 million Doges (about 9.5 BTC worth) is 20 satoshis.  That's it.


predictions?  one zero added to LTC spot while Doge gets 2 or 3 zeroes added?

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> predictions?  one zero added to LTC spot while Doge gets 2 or 3 zeroes added?


Nah DOGE is not going to go up that fast.  Break through 300?  Yes probably.  Real resistance @ 360 right now.  The fan club might take it higher this time around, but just plan to be out in time before the subsequent crash . . . and then of course we buy back in.  My thinking is 600 Satoshi's only at April 20 (mining reward halving time), which leaves another lunar cycle + of playtime, and even then it could well be 550 or 520 or 500 thereafter (late April) in recovery mode.

Now if Kerry and Co. go Nutzo in the Middle-East?  Well at that stage I am all out of making predictions about anything and will just be hunkering down with coins stored locally in my own wallets to see how things go, and of course heavily packed and stacked in Silver.

Ideal situation:  Knowing the BTC launch is coming starting in June/early July, ditch all the DOGE's and other stuff around that time and just stick to BTC through that ride (June/July) and then ditch BTC to Fiat in early August, wait around and buy back in.  Not sure that DOGE will increase percentage wise greater than BTC through that time, but then again its all a long way off.  Still need to keep researching and watching the trends as they grow.

Silver:Crypto ratio right now is 98:2, thats how much I trust the $#@!tards running the Planet!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No, 3352 is the port that one points their mining rig to at Multipool.us to solely mine DOGE as opposed to 7777 to just mine whatever the server algos reckon is the most profitable at that moment.
> 
> Funny, 3352 is the PostCode for Ballarat down here:
> 
> http://www.postcodes-australia.com/postcodes/3352
> 
> So maybe its just meant to be.
> 
> 196 Satoshi's was the actual recent bottom for the DOGE?  Still watching, but oh yeah Shiba Inu launch is coming!


I see.  I got all excited there for a moment, but I realized you were talkinga bout something I had no knowledge of.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> predictions?  one zero added to LTC spot while Doge gets 2 or 3 zeroes added?


I'll be the first to tell you my predictions don't mean much, but you'll have to be more specific about where the zeroes are going.  Either one decreasing 10 times in value is extremely unlikely while adding a zero to the end does nothing to the value whatsoever.

If you're saying the digits get pushed back and are one more place closer to the decimal point, then that's also unlikely in my mind.  Doge's already had one run, and LTC looks like it's on its final run, so none of those really seem like options.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Nah DOGE is not going to go up that fast.  Break through 300?  Yes probably.  Real resistance @ 360 right now.  The fan club might take it higher this time around, but just plan to be out in time before the subsequent crash . . . and then of course we buy back in.  My thinking is 600 Satoshi's only at April 20 (mining reward halving time), which leaves another lunar cycle + of playtime, and even then it could well be 550 or 520 or 500 thereafter (late April) in recovery mode.
> 
> Now if Kerry and Co. go Nutzo in the Middle-East?  Well at that stage I am all out of making predictions about anything and will just be hunkering down with coins stored locally in my own wallets to see how things go, and of course heavily packed and stacked in Silver.
> 
> Ideal situation:  Knowing the BTC launch is coming starting in June/early July, ditch all the DOGE's and other stuff around that time and just stick to BTC through that ride (June/July) and then ditch BTC to Fiat in early August, wait around and buy back in.  Not sure that DOGE will increase percentage wise greater than BTC through that time, but then again its all a long way off.  Still need to keep researching and watching the trends as they grow.
> 
> Silver:Crypto ratio right now is 98:2, thats how much I trust the $#@!tards running the Planet!


Assuming the Doge behaves like a normal bubble, how long do you think we'll have to make a decision at the top?  Will we have any indicators that it's reached the top?  I'm incredibly iffy on 600 satoshis myself.  If I could count on that, then I would already be rich, as I'm sure you and others who invested a significant amount would be if it were possible to pinpoint the top.

----------


## muh_roads

> Nah DOGE is not going to go up that fast.


Not even near the end of 2014?

----------


## KCIndy

> I'm checking it out right now..  There's another thread I'm following "Silver Madness", I think is the name.     I'm just debating if better to buy online versus Craigslist... right now leaning towards Craigslist for various reasons.     I'm just going to do silver, because if the shtf I think silver would be easier to barter with ...     Can you imagine trying to buy a generator with a gold coin and hoping they can give you change lol.



I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but please be *extremely* careful about buying silver from Craigslist, eBay, and other big party-to-party sites.  I've heard numerous accounts of fakes being sold to people wanting to get into silver.  

Professional sellers like MidasResources.com, APMEX.com and others are going to be selling the real thing.  Or if you want to keep your purchases anonymous, find a good reputable coin dealer.


http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/fake...igslist/nbTf4/




> *Fake silver bullion and coins show up on Craigslist*
> 
> PIERCE COUNTY, Wash. 
> 
> Daryl Casson thought he found a pretty good deal. Solid silver bullion at a price just below market value. So he met up with a man who had advertised the silver on Craigslist.
> 
> "I looked at them, I weighed them. They looked perfect, they weighed perfect and I bought them," Casson said.
> 
> Casson has some experience investing in precious metals and was sure he'd gotten a good buy on high quality silver bullion.
> ...

----------


## SomewhereInOz

[QUOTE=KCIndy;5435391]Professional sellers like MidasResources.com, APMEX.com and others are going to be selling the real thing. QUOTE]

I think even the bigger dealers sense what is coming with Silver and some like this one, might be tempted to take advantage of people and the situation:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...les_Money.html

Tulving used to be a good spot to make large volume purchases, and in fact they prefered to only deal with bigger buyers.  It used to be the spot to pick up Monster Boxes of Maples and ASE's, and also 100 coin boxes of Kooks and Koalas.

So even with the bigger Professional sellers, you need to be cautious with now and any delays in proposed delivery means you continue looking elsewhere.

Paid a visit to a small Local Coin Shop today.  Its a fairly small one but at any stage they probably had 5,000 Ounces of Silver laying around in older coins from around the world and Perth Mint products.  Surprise surprise the store was empty, the for lease sign was up on the window and they've gone out of business (e.g. the owners know its a better gamble right now to just sit on inventory rather than sell it at these low prices).  A mobile phone number was posted on the Window "Gone Fishing, but if you still want Fine Silver Bullion call this number".  I'm guessing a pretty big premium will be added to that Fine Silver Bullion now.

----------


## presence

T MINUS 72 HOURS:

----------


## SomewhereInOz

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...an-carry-trade

Absolutely Huge this is!

Itching to scream "WEB BOT HIT!!!!!!"

----------


## SomewhereInOz

https://www.dropbox.com/s/by9af1mp70...0the.$#@!s.jpg

Meanwhile both Gold and Silver stay non-plussed . . . for now.

*Note:  When this thing goes feral, watch for currencies (you know the fake and phoney paper) to go absolutely bat$#@! crazy.  AUD for example, presently at 90 cents.  One moment you will look and its up to $1.40, next you will see it down to 60 cents.  Oh yeah, you'd want to be all out of paper real soon!*

----------


## Dianne

> I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but please be *extremely* careful about buying silver from Craigslist, eBay, and other big party-to-party sites.  I've heard numerous accounts of fakes being sold to people wanting to get into silver.  
> 
> Professional sellers like MidasResources.com, APMEX.com and others are going to be selling the real thing.  Or if you want to keep your purchases anonymous, find a good reputable coin dealer.
> 
> 
> http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/fake...igslist/nbTf4/


Thanks so much for the information.   My son told me the same thing yesterday, so I will be shopping with the professional sellers today.

It seems like the bad guys always ruin things for the little guys.

----------


## Dianne

[QUOTE=SomewhereInOz;5435524]


> Professional sellers like MidasResources.com, APMEX.com and others are going to be selling the real thing. QUOTE]
> 
> I think even the bigger dealers sense what is coming with Silver and some like this one, might be tempted to take advantage of people and the situation:
> 
> http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...les_Money.html
> 
> Tulving used to be a good spot to make large volume purchases, and in fact they prefered to only deal with bigger buyers.  It used to be the spot to pick up Monster Boxes of Maples and ASE's, and also 100 coin boxes of Kooks and Koalas.
> 
> So even with the bigger Professional sellers, you need to be cautious with now and any delays in proposed delivery means you continue looking elsewhere.
> ...


Glad you posted that.  I bought a monster box from them a few years ago that I later sold on eBay.    All went fine, but the guy I dealt with was a little creepy and made me nervous.   I'll stay clear.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/19gj1i51gw...Terrorists.jpg
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM


. . . Just trolling through past posts on here . . .

Click on the Van Halen link above to see why I say so . . .

. . . here's a replacement link for you entertainment while we await the next ScumTard to Jump:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLVcZwCgDEQ

----------


## SomewhereInOz

. . . Patience now in finding the absolute bottom  ;-)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ve5gfvwfy9...20Patience.jpg

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> T MINUS 72 HOURS:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/oz04pxquko...rom%20Here.jpg

Mate are you serious?

You wouldn't be a member of the Litecoin Dev Team now would you be? . . . 

Have you not been paying attention these last 4 days????

Litecoin, nothing but down from here!!!!

Quit trying to scam people into losing money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*AUGUST 2013 . . . FFS WAKE UP, WE ARE NOT EVEN INTO JULY YET!!!!!

PISSED OFF! . . . WHY? . . . I ABSOLUTELY HATE PEOPLE WHO EXIST JUST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!

FULL STOP!  $#@!ING END!  THERE, HAVE SAID MY PIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

----------


## Dianne

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oz04pxquko...rom%20Here.jpg
> 
> Mate are you serious?
> 
> You wouldn't be a member of the Litecoin Dev Team now would you be? . . . 
> 
> Have you not been paying attention these last 4 days????
> 
> Litecoin, nothing but down from here!!!!
> ...


LTC just dropped to 12.90.   I almost put a buy order in for $10.00 but restrained myself lol.    I got quite a scare the other day when I bought at $14.90 and it started dropping like a bomb.   Luckily it bounced high enough (just barely), for me to get out unscathed.

----------


## SomewhereInOz

> LTC just dropped to 12.90.   I almost put a buy order in for $10.00 but restrained myself lol.    I got quite a scare the other day when I bought at $14.90 and it started dropping like a bomb.   Luckily it bounced high enough (just barely), for me to get out unscathed.


Good on ya Dianne, now you see what's going on on here!

PM'ed with another on here about a week ago, and told him (sniff, sniff . . . I smelt a rat but couldn't prove it just then . . . Oh yeah just give me time I said!)

----------


## SomewhereInOz

So now watcha say eh?  Come on, we're waiting . . .

----------


## SomewhereInOz

. . . Expect no reply, just $#@!ING Gutless!

----------


## SomewhereInOz

Oh yeah, you always watch for the "Qui Bono"   Or "Who Benefits" . . . .

You've been "HAD" a million times to Sunday" already, so why not watch for the "Qui Bono" Eh???? . . . .

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oz04pxquko...rom%20Here.jpg
> 
> Mate are you serious?
> 
> You wouldn't be a member of the Litecoin Dev Team now would you be? . . . 
> 
> Have you not been paying attention these last 4 days????
> 
> Litecoin, nothing but down from here!!!!
> ...


Wow.  A little over the top if you ask me...  Those are pretty wild accusations.

Do people usually go from passive acceptance to full on rage in the blink of an eye in your country?  This is pres's thread, you know.

Besides, his predictions have been pretty good as of yet.  Why not wait and see what happens?

----------


## lotsOfCake

Hi.

Found that a previous sub-bubble "market logic" is back in play. Now, certain alt ratios. like ltc/btc, may show whats gonna happen to the usd/btc price. Only matters for daytraders.

In general, I'm keeping my eyes on btc, tips, doge, xpm, dtc, auroracoin, in that order.

Hoping that the market cycle is "accellerated" and that we wont have a second hard crash, but I don't have any reason to believe that this is the case. Instability causes further FUD. The mtgox thing caused instability. So I'm not optimistic. It will recover shortly though, even if it does go down once more in march.

----------


## lotsOfCake

presence; yes people will think youre nuts for trying to predict a sharp rise in ltc.

I'm like; its low odds, but if it does happen, itll go 2x easily. Just go http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ltcbtc and click "3d" top left.
When LTC takes off, it really takes off. I lost 50% on holding LTC last time so I'm very careful, and currently not holding any, other than temporarily as a gateway to tips

Edit: Held LTC when looking at LTC/BTC from 0.03 down to 0.013 up to 0.034 and sold before it bubbled. So not a loss. But still a very long and painful tank.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Hi.
> 
> Found that a previous sub-bubble "market logic" is back in play. Now, certain alt ratios. like ltc/btc, may show whats gonna happen to the usd/btc price. Only matters for daytraders.
> 
> In general, I'm keeping my eyes on btc, tips, doge, xpm, dtc, auroracoin, in that order.
> 
> Hoping that the market cycle is "accellerated" and that we wont have a second hard crash, but I don't have any reason to believe that this is the case. Instability causes further FUD. The mtgox thing caused instability. So I'm not optimistic. It will recover shortly though, even if it does go down once more in march.


This is probably what will happen.

----------


## presence

> *I ABSOLUTELY HATE PEOPLE WHO EXIST JUST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!
> 
> FULL STOP! $#@!ING END! THERE, HAVE SAID MY PIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


If this was bitcointalk I'd delete your posts from my thread.

I'm not here to take advantage of anyone.   I trade the long chart.   I'm back in an holding.


BOUGHT LAST WEEK when LTC hit 10.56:

13.46 LTC
3.27 NMC
3.16 PPC


So price shaking back down to 13.5 today... meh... doesn't concern me.



I'll dump when we're back over $800 in 45 days.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## presence

Chart may go off the edge of your screen / right click "view image" for full size.

----------


## presence

> . . . Expect no reply, just $#@!ING Gutless!

----------


## muh_roads

This is all a show to appear as if pres and oz aren't the same person.

----------


## presence

> This is all a show to appear as if pres and oz aren't the same person.


good jesus

----------


## muh_roads

> good jesus


lmao

----------


## Dianne

Shalom Aleichem to the thread ... may peace be with you.

Please stop the arguing.    We have enough enemies outside of the Ron Paul Forums to last us two lifetimes.   We shouldn't argue among ourselves.

*
PEACE*

----------


## muh_roads

> Shalom Aleichem to the thread ... may peace be with you.
> 
> Please stop the arguing.    We have enough enemies outside of the Ron Paul Forums to last us two lifetimes.   We shouldn't argue among ourselves.
> 
> *
> PEACE*


I have to agree.

pres says up.

oz says down.

No need to fight.  50-50 shot.

I'm buying portions of LTC at a time.  @ 025 then 024  If pres is right.  I'm happy.  If not, he'll let us know when he personally cuts his losses.

I have a large 350 buy wall ready for btc.  If oz is right, I'm happy.  If he's not, I'll go buy some silver with it.  Still happy.

----------


## Dianne

> I have to agree.
> 
> pres says up.
> 
> oz says down.
> 
> No need to fight.  50-50 shot.
> 
> I'm buying portions of LTC at a time.  @ 025 then 024  If pres is right.  I'm happy.  If not, he'll let us know when he personally cuts his losses.
> ...


Well yesterday I chose between btc and silver and silver won the fight.   I ordered my first roll of 2014 american silver eagles from a dealer on eBay and although I may have paid too much $512 with free shipping I took the advice of several on the forums and steered clear of the shady eBay and Craigslist counterfeiters.   At least it will be something I can hold in my hand or put in my pocket at the same cost as one btc.

I have to admit, I am a bit shaken right now with the entire Gox matter and the huge loss suffered by hundreds if not thousands of people due to the negligence of one.
Having said that, I do still have a buy order in btc at $200. lolol.

----------


## XTreat

> Well yesterday I chose between btc and silver and silver won the fight.   I ordered my first roll of 2014 american silver eagles from a dealer on eBay and although I may have paid too much $512 with free shipping I took the advice of several on the forums and steered clear of the shady eBay and Craigslist counterfeiters.   At least it will be something I can hold in my hand or put in my pocket at the same cost as one btc.
> 
> I have to admit, I am a bit shaken right now with the entire Gox matter and the huge loss suffered by hundreds if not thousands of people due to the negligence of one.
> Having said that, I do still have a buy order in btc at $200. lolol.


You might have missed it, but www.amagimetels.com is owned and operated by RP people and I am real life friends with their PR director. They have very reasonable prices and I order from them regularly. I got a roll of their brand new original minted End the Fed rounds for $460 last week.

----------


## muh_roads

> Well yesterday I chose between btc and silver and silver won the fight.   I ordered my first roll of 2014 american silver eagles from a dealer on eBay and although I may have paid too much $512 with free shipping I took the advice of several on the forums and steered clear of the shady eBay and Craigslist counterfeiters.   At least it will be something I can hold in my hand or put in my pocket at the same cost as one btc.
> 
> I have to admit, I am a bit shaken right now with the entire Gox matter and the huge loss suffered by hundreds if not thousands of people due to the negligence of one.
> Having said that, I do still have a buy order in btc at $200. lolol.


I had a bunch of 150 & 250 walls set but the more I thought about it, the more unlikely $200 btc sounds.  There are so many people who want it for that price that it will probably never see it again except for a quick flash where most orders won't be filled anyway.  I'm glad I changed my walls up to grab a bunch in the 400 range.

----------


## Dianne

> You might have missed it, but www.amagimetels.com is owned and operated by RP people and I am real life friends with their PR director. They have very reasonable prices and I order from them regularly. I got a roll of their brand new original minted End the Fed rounds for $460 last week.


Ouch ( .   Maybe you can give me a contact name and phone number.   I've decided to order a roll each month, rather than sticking fiat in a savings account, so I will definitely order from them.

----------


## Dianne

> I had a bunch of 150 & 250 walls set but the more I thought about it, the more unlikely $200 btc sounds.  There are so many people who want it for that price that it will probably never see it again except for a quick flash where most orders won't be filled anyway.  I'm glad I changed my walls up to grab a bunch in the 400 range.


Good luck !!!   I have a gut feeling 400. is possible.    My $200. is almost certainly impossible.    Maybe I'll luck out and catch one of those boo boo's someone made selling over a thousand at $125. a few weeks ago.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Good luck !!!   I have a gut feeling 400. is possible.    My $200. is almost certainly impossible.    Maybe I'll luck out and catch one of those boo boo's someone made selling over a thousand at $125. a few weeks ago.


I think $400 was the low just recently.  It'll continue another downtrend for a little while before it's finished with consolidation, but I don't expect it to go any lower than it already has.  I think it'll get close before it starts ascending again.

----------


## XTreat

> Ouch ( .   Maybe you can give me a contact name and phone number.   I've decided to order a roll each month, rather than sticking fiat in a savings account, so I will definitely order from them.



Amagi also accepts BTC, LTC, and DOGE as payment.

----------


## Dianne

> Amagi also accepts BTC, LTC, and DOGE as payment.


Nice !!   Maybe I should get a second roll.   I visited their website but the prices seem higher than what I bought at eBay.      That's why a contact name would be good, so I could call for a quote.

----------


## muh_roads

> Good luck !!!   I have a gut feeling 400. is possible.    My $200. is almost certainly impossible.    Maybe I'll luck out and catch one of those boo boo's someone made selling over a thousand at $125. a few weeks ago.


I've actually been trying to catch those on cryptsy in the alt-coin world.  A lot of them do flash tank yet it only takes it about 5% of the time when I set low like that.  Why, I'm not sure.  They always move right past me 95% of the time in the order book.

If I really want something, I think more realistic walls need to be set.  Your $400 might be a good idea and I think I'll move my $350 up to $450.  This is really steady @550-600 right now and I have to agree with pres I think.  It is matching up like a calm before something big.

----------


## Dianne

> I've actually been trying to catch those on cryptsy in the alt-coin world.  A lot of them do flash tank yet it only takes it about 5% of the time when I set low like that.  Why, I'm not sure.  They always move right past me 95% of the time in the order book.
> 
> If I really want something, I think more realistic walls need to be set.  Your $400 might be a good idea and I think I'll move my $350 up to $450.  This is really steady @550-600 right now and I have to agree with pres I think.  It is matching up like a calm before something big.


So you think we're headed to da moon?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So you think we're headed to da moon?


Not yet.  It'll be a few months before anything of epic proportions happens.

----------


## muh_roads

Litecoin & Doge are sure losing their ass.  Just gonna keep accumulating in small pieces as pres dumps on me...lol

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Litecoin & Doge are sure losing their ass.  Just gonna keep accumulating in small pieces as pres dumps on me...lol


I'm starting to feel duped by Oz.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm starting to feel duped by Oz.


I went against how I normally trade and bought too much Doge in the 290's instead of buying increments.  I got swept up in the reddit & olympics craze.  

Whenever someone here screams "OMG better grab on, the train is leaving", it usually means the train already left and they are ready to dump.  This doesn't really apply to BTC because it requires too much capital for a single person or a group to move the market. It may have been the case in 2011 but not anymore.  But alts are really easy for pumping scammers to move markets how they wish.

They pump with most of their funds...hope you jump in, then they dump theirs plus yours.  A good pump & dump usually nets them 10% more than they had previously.  It has to be done in small increments though so pre-pumps don't look noticeable.  Most people underestimate the power of their own wakes because alts are so cheap.

I've been watching a lot of pump & dump groups do their thing on twitter lately.  Alts are definitely the penny stocks of crypto.  I think the great consolidation has begun.  They are all garbage.  I got lucky on UNO.  Bad luck has been greater lately elsewhere.

----------


## Dianne

> Not yet.  It'll be a few months before anything of epic proportions happens.


What is your ltc buy order set at?    I set mine at 12.25 earlier this morning, but backed off ...   I have no clue how low it might go before upswing.

----------


## Dianne

> I'm starting to feel duped by Oz.


LOL same with me ...    I bought 70k reddcoin, no huge investment by any means but the coin is dead in the water..  No one even trying to pump it.

----------


## Dianne

> I went against how I normally trade and bought too much Doge in the 290's instead of buying increments.  I got swept up in the reddit & olympics craze.  
> 
> Whenever someone here screams "OMG better grab on, the train is leaving", it usually means the train already left and they are ready to dump.  This doesn't really apply to BTC because it requires too much capital for a single person or a group to move the market. It may have been the case in 2011 but not anymore.  But alts are really easy for pumping scammers to move markets how they wish.
> 
> They pump with most of their funds...hope you jump in, then they dump theirs plus yours.  A good pump & dump usually nets them 10% more than they had previously.  It has to be done in small increments though so pre-pumps don't look noticeable.  Most people underestimate the power of their own wakes because alts are so cheap.
> 
> I've been watching a lot of pump & dump groups do their thing on twitter lately.  Alts are definitely the penny stocks of crypto.  I think the great consolidation has begun.  They are all garbage.  I got lucky on UNO.  Bad luck has been greater lately elsewhere.


Have you noticed whenever a new coin comes up, there are huge pumps ..   Then by the time Cryptsy takes on the coin, it is coinheaven.

----------


## muh_roads

> LOL same with me ...    I bought 70k reddcoin, no huge investment by any means but the coin is dead in the water..  No one even trying to pump it.


Haven't checked on Redd in a while.  Doing some math it looks like IPO investors will be below their buy in price once it goes below 5 satoshi's.  Getting close.  @ 8 right now.

I would sell if I could.  IPO is locked for 90 days until I get the funds.

----------


## Dianne

> Haven't checked on Redd in a while.  Doing some math it looks like IPO investors will be below their buy in price once it goes below 5 satoshi's.  Getting close.  @ 8 right now.
> 
> I would sell if I could.  IPO is locked for 90 days until I get the funds.


I keep trying to sell, but that site coinmarktio has for seven days now, said selling is disabled... buying ok, but selling disabled lol ...   Gox Junior.

----------


## muh_roads

Can't sell but can buy?  lol  wtf leave that $#@!.  Hopefully you can withdraw.

Try this...  https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_redd

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What is your ltc buy order set at?    I set mine at 12.25 earlier this morning, but backed off ...   I have no clue how low it might go before upswing.


I'm not in LTC right now and have no plans of being since I'm invested elsewhere.  If it rebounds, then it's probably going to happen when BTC rebounds.  LTC might break $10 again before that happens.  Right now it doesn't look pretty.

----------


## Dianne

> I'm not in LTC right now and have no plans of being since I'm invested elsewhere.  If it rebounds, then it's probably going to happen when BTC rebounds.  LTC might break $10 again before that happens.  Right now it doesn't look pretty.


LTC looking quite "sickly" lol.  I never dreamed LTC buying opportunities would ever be in the 12'ish range.   Not sure if I can contain myself if it gets to 10.00 though.

----------


## Dianne

> Can't sell but can buy?  lol  wtf leave that $#@!.  Hopefully you can withdraw.
> 
> Try this...  https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_redd


Thanks for the tip.   I signed up with poloniex, so as soon as coinmarket.io is back online I will transfer reddcoin out of there.    I know withdrawals work.    The only thing I will have left at coinmarket is karmacoin.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> LTC looking quite "sickly" lol.  I never dreamed LTC buying opportunities would ever be in the 12'ish range.   Not sure if I can contain myself if it gets to 10.00 though.


It might not actually be a bad idea at that price.  If you look at the recent movements, people who bought LTC at .02114 BTC are sitting pretty at .0233 (recent high).  That's already a 10% gain in the span of a couple of hours.  

All of the hulabaloo about altcoin trends and whatnot aside, it's pretty objectively safe to assume that some altcoins are going to be doing pretty well when BTC decides to start going back up.  Not all, mind you, but Litecoin is probably a pretty good bet, as is Doge right now.  In fact, Doge is probably better.  It's newer and is just now experiencing some form of economic adoption, albeit very little.  I'm not trying to pump anything.  Not all of the altcoins will completely recover, but I do think most of them will experience some type of gains when BTC reverses the trend.

In fact, I can't really say with any certainty, but it kind of looks like we might have passed the consolidation phase already.  I've already got my altcoins lined up in case BTC starts mooning us.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Dude, BTC is up like 60$+ in the last hour alone. Are the cheapies done for?

----------


## presence

> pres says up.
> 
> oz says down.
> 
> No need to fight.  50-50 shot.
> 
> If pres is right. 
> 
> I'm happy.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

So... what happens to the alts now?

----------


## muh_roads

> 


I wish LTC wasn't losing its ass so much.  Christ this is painful.

$#@! Doge too...lol

I'm just not gonna look at it for a month.  And if it is completely destroyed by then, I'll multiply my holdings with less BTC to do it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I wish LTC wasn't losing its ass so much.  Christ this is painful.
> 
> $#@! Doge too...lol
> 
> I'm just not gonna look at it for a month.  And if it is completely destroyed by then, I'll multiply my holdings with less BTC to do it.


It is painful.  Might want to at least make a sell order in case it does something while you're not looking.

----------


## muh_roads

> It is painful.  Might want to at least make a sell order in case it does something while you're not looking.


I really hate selling when I'm down though.  Or do you mean set a high wall and hope it takes?

I should just go back to trading btc directly. I did so much better in December doing that. I liked the idea of trading entirely in crypto because when I buy/sell on Bitstamp it should be reported on taxes.  Trading in crypto has more gray areas.

But the rate at which alts are dropping is far worse than capital gains at this point.

----------


## Dianne

> LOL same with me ...    I bought 70k reddcoin, no huge investment by any means but the coin is dead in the water..  No one even trying to pump it.


And now it appears the site he referred me to buy reddcoin is bellies up (   https://www.coinmarket.io/  .  For days you could not sell, only deposit.   And now they have been offline with no updates and the crowd is beginning to go wild.    Possibly another Gox, just on a smaller scale.   Of course anyone with 5 btc on there, might not consider it a smaller scale.

Where has he been anyway?

----------


## Dianne

> I really hate selling when I'm down though.  Or do you mean set a high wall and hope it takes?
> 
> I should just go back to trading btc directly. I did so much better in December doing that. I liked the idea of trading entirely in crypto because when I buy/sell on Bitstamp it should be reported on taxes.  Trading in crypto has more gray areas.
> 
> But the rate at which alts are dropping is far worse than capital gains at this point.


That's what I did last week and luckily there was a pump while I was asleep and I was able to recover my investment.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I really hate selling when I'm down though.  Or do you mean set a high wall and hope it takes?
> 
> I should just go back to trading btc directly. I did so much better in December doing that. I liked the idea of trading entirely in crypto because when I buy/sell on Bitstamp it should be reported on taxes.  Trading in crypto has more gray areas.
> 
> But the rate at which alts are dropping is far worse than capital gains at this point.


I meant setting a high wall.  That's what I would do.  They can't go down forever, can they?

----------


## presence

> I wish LTC wasn't losing its ass so much.  Christ this is painful.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just not gonna look at it for a month.





http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/per...c&market=btc-e

----------


## muh_roads

> http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/per...c&market=btc-e


Interesting.  I had .03 in the back of my mind.  How low do you think it might get?

Traders on twitter are saying LTC is actually going up in terms of USD.  But because BTC is going up much faster the BTC/LTC ratio keeps getting cheaper.  But that can't be the case with people in here say $12, then $10 soon...

I feel like there is an arbitrage opportunity here I am not seeing and missing out on.

----------


## muh_roads

> And now it appears the site he referred me to buy reddcoin is bellies up (   https://www.coinmarket.io/  .  For days you could not sell, only deposit.   And now they have been offline with no updates and the crowd is beginning to go wild.    Possibly another Gox, just on a smaller scale.   Of course anyone with 5 btc on there, might not consider it a smaller scale.
> 
> Where has he been anyway?


Two months ago if you said I checked my twitter feed multiple times per day, I would've laughed.  I used to think twitter  was for spastic little ADHD kiddies but it has become very useful for  market updates I've discovered. 

You should sign up.  Apparently they have just been down for maintenance since March 1st.

https://twitter.com/CoinMarketio

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Interesting.  I had .03 in the back of my mind.  How low do you think it might get?
> 
> Traders on twitter are saying LTC is actually going up in terms of USD.  But because BTC is going up much faster the BTC/LTC ratio keeps getting cheaper.  But that can't be the case with people in here say $12, then $10 soon...
> 
> I feel like there is an arbitrage opportunity here I am not seeing and missing out on.


I posed it as a possibility once, but I have since abandoned that possibility.  It looks like consolidation is over.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Interesting.  I had .03 in the back of my mind.  How low do you think it might get?
> 
> Traders on twitter are saying LTC is actually going up in terms of USD.  But because BTC is going up much faster the BTC/LTC ratio keeps getting cheaper.  But that can't be the case with people in here say $12, then $10 soon...
> 
> I feel like there is an arbitrage opportunity here I am not seeing and missing out on.



The opportunity atm is... just keep buying LTC either with USD or BTC to the depths of hell.   Have faith... wait 30 days.   LTC will prevail.  You're shorting yourself at .03 take at least .035


After LTC/BTC spikes up past .035.... GTFO until the bear trap of the next bubble.... July 2014ish.

----------


## Dianne

> The opportunity atm is... just keep buying LTC either with USD or BTC to the depths of hell.   Have faith... wait 30 days.   LTC will prevail.  You're shorting yourself at .03 take at least .035
> 
> 
> After LTC/BTC spikes up past .035.... GTFO until the bear trap of the next bubble.... July 2014ish.


Thanks for the tip !!

----------


## Dianne

> Two months ago if you said I checked my twitter feed multiple times per day, I would've laughed.  I used to think twitter  was for spastic little ADHD kiddies but it has become very useful for  market updates I've discovered. 
> 
> You should sign up.  Apparently they have just been down for maintenance since March 1st.
> 
> https://twitter.com/CoinMarketio


I just checked and they are back up.    You still can't sell your coins there, so I'm going to try and transfer to the other exchange.

----------


## amonasro

FYI Cryptsy works much better than it used to; today my DOGE deposit showed up within minutes instead of days.

----------


## presence

> *Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are $#@!s, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of $#@!, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a $#@!wit. Plus other considerations.*Miercuri, 05 Februarie, Anul 6 d.Tr. | Autor: Mircea Popescu


..

----------


## amonasro

I don't like DOGE either but it's been the most consistently profitable coin to mine without having to download a dozen different wallets, and the kiddies love it. I just traded mine up for LTC, so nice to see your recommendation as well. I agree LTC will make its comeback and whenever I feel that twinge of fear when looking at a chart, I know it's time to buy.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't like DOGE either but it's been the most consistently profitable coin to mine without having to download a dozen different wallets, and the kiddies love it. I just traded mine up for LTC, so nice to see your recommendation as well. I agree LTC will make its comeback and whenever I feel that twinge of fear when looking at a chart, I know it's time to buy.


It looks like Doge is mirroring LTC right now.  We shall see what happens when it gets to that critical point.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> It looks like Doge is mirroring LTC right now.  We shall see what happens when it gets to that critical point.


The Doge/LTC ratio seems to be on an uptrend.  Still trying to wrap my head around the ratios and how the btc usd price plays a role in it all.

BTW that article pres posted was written by an elitist with 6 figures of btc.  He seems annoyed he isn't worth more than Warren Buffet yet.  He also said doge was centralized?  huh?  He also sarcastically seen no value in dividing $1 into more than 100 units.  In a deflationary system such as a gold standard you NEED something like that.  That guy isn't as smart as I thought he was.

Anywho, I've read similar articles by others criticizing LTC a year ago. Look where LTC is now. All it takes is a community and doge definitely has that.  BTC, LTC, and Doge will be the top 3 to survive the great consolidation.

I'm positive we'll see gift cards in stores some day selling 100 Doge's for $1.  1000 for $10, etc.  If I had the means to market gift cards I would be buying up as much Doge as I can to do just that.  The raffle/tip coin for kids.

I think this whole doge thing is dumb too but kids on reddit love it and you can't deny that.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> 


kewl.

Thanks for posting again btw.  If this next run pans out I definitely need to send you some long overdue tippage.

----------


## amonasro

^^ Same presence. I'm totally loving the way you extrapolate the EMAs.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Thirded.

----------


## kpitcher

The one thing about doge is the huge number that will exist. 100 billion this year, 5 billion more each year after. That's a LOT of coins. Hard to see a straight fiat exchange coin to coin. Although it almost reached a penny once so perhaps I'm wrong on thinking the meme will die.

----------


## muh_roads

> The one thing about doge is the huge number that will exist. 100 billion this year, 5 billion more each year after. That's a LOT of coins. Hard to see a straight fiat exchange coin to coin. Although it almost reached a penny once so perhaps I'm wrong on thinking the meme will die.


Even at 100 billion it is easy for old-school BTC'ers to own 1b or 100m of them.  I think reaching parity with a US penny is very possible.  I'm positive these things will be bought up with the intent of reselling like World of Warcraft gold or something.  You see gift cards in stores all the time for virtual products.  $#@! much more dumb than Dogecoin, like IMVU.

Whether the meme lasts 5 years down the road is another matter...

----------


## XTreat

I have made a little bit off of Pres' advice, I have only made just 3-4 trades, but they were all advantagous and all based on his advice. Much props.

I sent some coin to the charity or w/e it was you asked me to send to.

----------


## Dianne

> The one thing about doge is the huge number that will exist. 100 billion this year, 5 billion more each year after. That's a LOT of coins. Hard to see a straight fiat exchange coin to coin. Although it almost reached a penny once so perhaps I'm wrong on thinking the meme will die.


That's what scares me about doge.   I've seen people with multi millions of it, which seems would devalue the coin.   I think what holds the coin down is the huge number (as you say), of coins out there.

----------


## Dianne

> I have made a little bit off of Pres' advice, I have only made just 3-4 trades, but they were all advantagous and all based on his advice. Much props.
> 
> I sent some coin to the charity or w/e it was you asked me to send to.


Nice, grats !!

----------


## amonasro

> That's what scares me about doge.   I've seen people with multi millions of it, which seems would devalue the coin.   I think what holds the coin down is the huge number (as you say), of coins out there.


Agreed. But Paladin has a good point. Never misunderestimate the power of dumb kids and good marketing. Doge isn't even _good_ marketing, it just has more of it than any other coin. The Doge big holders think they're akin to the Bitcoin early adopters, however this fact in itself may prevent it from happening. Very few early Bitcoin holders expected them to increase in value so quickly. But you never know with these things. I'd hold a diversified portfolio just in case.

----------


## muh_roads

> That's what scares me about doge.   I've seen people with multi millions of it, which seems would devalue the coin.   I think what holds the coin down is the huge number (as you say), of coins out there.


It used to scare me.  Then I seen how easy it was to accumulate them.  People don't own just 1.  I have 21m of the stupid things...lol  A thousand people owning 100m completely gobbles up the supply.

The thing is these kids may be dumb when it comes to economics, but a  lot of them are way better coders than I could ever be.  And that's how  BTC initially took off.  It was kids that could code layers and services on top of  the protocol.  If they own enough it will be in their best interest to  expand the system further.

There is so much dirty central banker money and derivatives in the global system to support 10 Dogecoin's and still leave enough for them to screw over the people.  Crypto is very interesting.  Bitcoin has made so many people wealthy and the market cap is still so small.  There is still so much wealth yet to transfer away from the debt system.  It really exposes how much the $#@!ty bankers have taken us for a ride over the last many decades.

These bankers have more money than god.  $#@! 'em all.  This is exciting.  People involved with crypto are a brotherhood of people who want to change the world for the better.  Ignore the haters.

----------


## muh_roads

BOOM

LTC added to BTC China

----------


## presence

*RALLY 'ROUND THA FAMILY!!!
*











*LTC tips to:*

*LL92nc7U8dYeVfdG5cmQwPsSDEYPLphY7B**



**MUCH THANKS!!!*

----------


## presence

> These bankers have more money than god. 
> 
> $#@! 'em all.
> 
> This is exciting. 
> 
> People involved with crypto are a brotherhood of people who want to change the world for the better. 
> 
> Ignore the haters.




moved to 1st post in thread

----------


## presence



----------


## XTreat

Gah! I sold @ $18.10 and then $#@! my pants when it kept going up, I bought back in at $17.70 because I was worried that LTC being added to BTCchina would skew your chart. 

Oh well I picked up a couple extra coins. I reckon I will just hold now.

----------


## Dianne

> Gah! I sold @ $18.10 and then $#@! my pants when it kept going up, I bought back in at $17.70 because I was worried that LTC being added to BTCchina would skew your chart. 
> 
> Oh well I picked up a couple extra coins. I reckon I will just hold now.


LOL, I sold at 17.80 .   Just bought back in at 16.50 though...   may be a mistake but if not tonight, eventually it will go up.    I set a sell order for 19.95.

I saw it jump $2.00 within a matter of seconds early this morning.

----------


## muh_roads

> LOL, I sold at 17.80 .   Just bought back in at 16.50 though...   may be a mistake but if not tonight, eventually it will go up.    I set a sell order for 19.95.
> 
> I saw it jump $2.00 within a matter of seconds early this morning.


China is waking up to the BTC China news soon.

I need the first 2 seconds looping...

----------


## Dianne

> China is waking up to the BTC China news soon.
> 
> I need the first 2 seconds looping...


Yes !!!!   I'm along for the ride.

----------


## muh_roads

> moved to 1st post in thread


hehe, sweet.  

Is that btc address in your signature working?

----------


## muh_roads

> Yes !!!!   I'm along for the ride.


From the BTC China website...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> From the BTC China website...


Zero percent, huh?  I wonder what they think is so special about LTC that they would do that?

----------


## muh_roads

> Zero percent, huh?  I wonder what they think is so special about LTC that they would do that?


Bitcoin trading was 0% in November/December last year too.  The 0% fee is to just get the ball rolling.

Also, in case people didn't know, the CEO of BTC China (Bobby Lee) is the brother of the creator of LTC (Charles Lee).  So "brothers united" has more than one meaning I guess u could say.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Bitcoin trading was 0% in November/December last year too.  The 0% fee is to just get the ball rolling.
> 
> Also, in case people didn't know, the CEO of BTC China (Bobby Lee) is the brother of the creator of LTC (Charles Lee).  So "brothers united" has more than one meaning I guess u could say.


Oh, that makes a lot of sense now.

----------


## presence

> hehe, sweet.  
> 
> Is that btc address in your signature working?



I just updated them since you asked.  


Is there any reason why an old BTC address tied to a BTCe account wouldn't be working?   I thought they were lifetime.   

Regardless... yes.  Should be live now.


Much thanks!

----------


## muh_roads

> I just updated them since you asked.  
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why an old BTC address tied to a BTCe account wouldn't be working?   I thought they were lifetime.   
> 
> Regardless... yes.  Should be live now.
> 
> 
> Much thanks!


Check the old address on the blockchain.  Hopefully people weren't donating to an address that no one can access?

Anywho just sent you 0.5 btc.  Kinda losing my ass in most alts atm.  I'll do more in the future as we fly towards the moon.

----------


## kpitcher

I have a few machines pointed at multipool and I mined some MOON coins. I guess I'm already there?

----------


## lotsOfCake

Are you guys paying attention to:
rtbtc.com
zeroblock.com
and the stuff happening with blockchain.info ? 
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/block...rYJTNK_XQ.html

----------


## Dianne

> From the BTC China website...


With that news, I'm really surprised ltc has gone sideways all night.

----------


## Dianne

> Are you guys paying attention to:
> rtbtc.com
> zeroblock.com
> and the stuff happening with blockchain.info ? 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/video/block...rYJTNK_XQ.html


wow, interesting..

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> With that news, I'm really surprised ltc has gone sideways all night.


It's been the same story with other altcoins that were added to exchanges.  The positive effects are strictly temporary.

----------


## muh_roads

> With that news, I'm really surprised ltc has gone sideways all night.


My guess would be the inability of traditional deposits from banks played a role in not mimicking the fast success BTC had last Nov/Dec.  Sideways is still better than down.

On a positive note, lots of rumors that Huobi will be adding LTC soon too.  Traders I follow on twitter are still bullish.  Real traders that believe in LTC long-term.  Not pumpers.

I'd be curious to know what pres thinks of what this trader told me the other day.  Keep in mind that this was on Monday before the BTC China news.




> Going 75% in converting my BTC to LTC. .022
> 
> Holding until .025 with 40% (one week+)
> 
> .027 25% (Weeks)
> 
> .03 10% (month or sooner


I'll update as I hear more.

----------


## muh_roads

As for Doge...this looks like a pattern that might break out again...possibly?

http://coinmarketcap.com/doge_90.html

and...

welcome back to earth auroracoin

http://coinmarketcap.com/aur_30.html

I might try a little...not sure...

----------


## Dianne

> My guess would be the inability of traditional deposits from banks played a role in not mimicking the fast success BTC had last Nov/Dec.  Sideways is still better than down.
> 
> On a positive note, lots of rumors that Huobi will be adding LTC soon too.  Traders I follow on twitter are still bullish.  Real traders that believe in LTC long-term.  Not pumpers.
> 
> I'd be curious to know what pres thinks of what this trader told me the other day.  Keep in mind that this was on Monday before the BTC China news.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll update as I hear more.


LOL, I didn't understand any of that.    I need to get with the lingo )

Does that mean the trader thinks ltc is going up 40% in one week?

----------


## muh_roads

> LOL, I didn't understand any of that.    I need to get with the lingo )
> 
> Does that mean the trader thinks ltc is going up 40% in one week?


No it means he is taking off the table as time goes on.  He was in with 75% of his btc, then when it reached a certain price he pulled off 35% with still 40% in, etc.  He may have only 10% by the time it reaches 03, but he has 90% in funds ready to grab if it goes the other way.

But again, this was said on Monday.  I'll update as I get the new info.

----------


## presence

Paladin69 thank you!  

*grinning ear to ear and glowing*

----------


## presence

IMAGE MAY EXTEND OFF EDGE OF PAGE; right click "view image"


I have never been a big "dogecoin" supporter as it seemed that most of the marketing and meme generation was faked and hyped.  I get the sense there are many faux twitter and facebook likes; ala fiver.com >> "1000 twitter likes for $5"  Doge supporters are known to have created bots to autosearch trollboxarchive.com to create a false sense of interest.  The coin itself is a fork of "JNK; Junkcoin" which was designed to be the ultimate scam coin.  This said I was recently asked by a dogecoin owner and RPF member to do some QA on the status of DOGE.  My impression is "Double Top Reversal", here's my chart:

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> No it means he is taking off the table as time goes on.  He was in with 75% of his btc, then when it reached a certain price he pulled off 35% with still 40% in, etc.  He may have only 10% by the time it reaches 03, but he has 90% in funds ready to grab if it goes the other way.
> 
> But again, this was said on Monday.  I'll update as I get the new info.


Another silly question "When it reaches .03"?    

You guys are sooooooooooooooooooo helpful as I learn.    Sorry for all the dumb questions !!

----------


## XTreat

Pres is getting quite the following in the trollbox.

----------


## amonasro

> Another silly question "When it reaches .03"?    
> 
> You guys are sooooooooooooooooooo helpful as I learn.    Sorry for all the dumb questions !!


That would mean one LTC is worth .03 BTC. It's a ratio. So if you have 1 BTC and want to convert it to LTC, just divide: 1/.03=33 So, 1 bitcoin would buy 33 litecoins.

Say you have 2 bitcoins and think the market is going to go up 20% during the next rally. We know that Litecoin market action generally follows Bitcoin market action, so we put 50% into LTC. Today's rate is .025; that gives you 40 litecoins for 1 bitcoin.

Yay, Bitcoin rallies 20% from $666 to $800. Litecoin follows to .03 against Bitcoin. Convert your LTC back to BTC and now you have 2.2 bitcoins, where if you only held bitcoins during the rally, you'd still have two. It's a great way to increase your stash.

----------


## Dianne

> That would mean one LTC is worth .03 BTC. It's a ratio. So if you have 1 BTC and want to convert it to LTC, just divide: 1/.03=33 So, 1 bitcoin would buy 33 litecoins.
> 
> Say you have 2 bitcoins and think the market is going to go up 20% during the next rally. We know that Litecoin market action generally follows Bitcoin market action, so we put 50% into LTC. Today's rate is .025; that gives you 40 litecoins for 1 bitcoin.
> 
> Yay, Bitcoin rallies 20% from $666 to $800. Litecoin follows to .03 against Bitcoin. Convert your LTC back to BTC and now you have 2.2 bitcoins, where if you only held bitcoins during the rally, you'd still have two. It's a great way to increase your stash.


Oh, I get it now !!   Thanks very much..   I have noticed on btc-e that sometimes you do better if you work the btc/ltc market than the ltc/usdollar market.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

What's the time frame on LTC?

----------


## nayjevin

I'm all in:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=464184.0

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> Paladin69 thank you!  
> 
> *grinning ear to ear and glowing*


No problem.  Thanks for the present in my PM also.  

You do a lot for the community here.  I would've done more but I'm a bit screwed with alts right now because I got a bit too caught up in the hype.  I also purposely set up my cold storage in such an obtuse way so it would be a giant chore to touch it...lol  I'll do more in the future as our success continues.

----------


## muh_roads

> IMAGE MAY EXTEND OFF EDGE OF PAGE; right click "view image"
> 
> 
> I have never been a big "dogecoin" supporter as it seemed that most of the marketing and meme generation was faked and hyped.  I get the sense there are many faux twitter and facebook likes; ala fiver.com >> "1000 twitter likes for $5"  Doge supporters are known to have created bots to autosearch trollboxarchive.com to create a false sense of interest.  The coin itself is a fork of "JNK; Junkcoin" which was designed to be the ultimate scam coin.  This said I was recently asked by a dogecoin owner and RPF member to do some QA on the status of DOGE.  My impression is "Double Top Reversal", here's my chart:


Just so you know, this made my work day today incredibly depressing when I glanced at this...lol  That is enough examples to convince me that you're probably right.

I can't blame Oz though.  It was me that pushed the "buy" button.  This is why it is so important to never go all in.  It hurts but I can afford the lesson.  Because I absolutely hate selling low, part of me wants to just hold and ignore it for a year.  Maybe double-down if it really $#@!s the bed.

People involved with BTC basically had no value for the first 2 years during all those sub-penny bubbles.  It's good to remind oneself of this.

----------


## muh_roads

> Oh, I get it now !!   Thanks very much..   I have noticed on btc-e that sometimes you do better if you work the btc/ltc market than the ltc/usdollar market.


Glad someone answered you.  My day job for fiat slavecoins keeps me off the boards sometimes.

Those ratios are definitely something I'm still trying to wrap my head around myself.  e.g. when Bitcoin rebounded from the Gox crash, the BTC/LTC ratio went down even though the LTC to USD ratio was going up.  The Doge/LTC ratio also $#@! the bed when LTC went from 02 to 027

Sorry if my numbers are confusing.  I only post in the BTC ratio.  And pres generally likes to post in the USD ratio.  I sometimes can't wrap my head around the USD charts here because I don't think in those terms...I only think about what things cost in BTC.

----------


## presence

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/com...or_adding_ltc/

https://twitter.com/litecoinchina/st...00154495164417

https://twitter.com/litecoinchina/st...98916030443520

https://www.facebook.com/ltcchina/posts/582418605183807

http://www.bitcoinfeed.net/news/huob...for-adding-ltc

http://www.bitcoinfeed.net/news/ltc-...e-ltc%E2%80%9D

http://www.bitcoinfeed.net/news/ltc-on-huobi-imminent



HUOBI LTC

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/com...or_adding_ltc/
> 
> https://twitter.com/litecoinchina/st...00154495164417
> 
> https://twitter.com/litecoinchina/st...98916030443520
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/ltcchina/posts/582418605183807
> 
> http://www.bitcoinfeed.net/news/huob...for-adding-ltc
> ...


I'm all in.  Major tippage coming your way if this goes as it should.

By the way, did you count on all this good LTC news when you predicted the LTC rise?

----------


## presence

> Just so you know, this made my work day today incredibly depressing when I glanced at this...lol  That is enough examples to convince me that you're probably right.



LTC = all signals point moon 
DOGE = all signals point floor


Warren Buffet would hold DOGE to his death bed if he was in your position. 

Warren Buffet wouldn't be in your position. 


Do as you will.  



IMHO Doge is the wolong queen mother off all pump and dump schemes:  

http://pastebin.com/tZYvK7UD

----------


## presence

> I'm all in.  Major tippage coming your way if this goes as it should.
> 
> By the way, did you count on all this good LTC news when you predicted the LTC rise?



LTC Huobi has been in the pipeline for a while... BTCChina was a surprise.   


I've long expected this even without the latest news because of the real world trends in LTC... exchanges, atms, business interests etc:

http://i.imgur.com/va2dnhz.png



also check Google Trends... Slovenia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, Slovakia, Russia, etc... viral interest in past week.

Also at google trends "rising" trends... litecoin mining, litecoin hardware, cgminer litecoin... all registering as "BREAKOUT" 

also check Topsy... LTC is showing  rising interest in past 4 days on their analytic charts.

----------


## muh_roads

> LTC = all signals point moon 
> DOGE = all signals point floor
> 
> 
> Warren Buffet would hold DOGE to his death bed if he was in your position. 
> 
> Warren Buffet wouldn't be in your position. 
> 
> 
> ...


$#@!ing wolong.  I should've known.

He did me a solid on Uno at least.  I turned 5 btc into 50 going from 004 to 04.  And then I lost it all on Doge...lol

----------


## presence

> In a battle reminiscent of a UFC title fight, today Auroracoin took a left to the chin and tumbled to the canvas losing over half its value.Why the price has fallen so hard and so fast, is a topic being hotly debated over at Bitcointalk.org with some blaming price manipulation, others saying multipools killed the coin by raising mining difficulty then leaving, while still others insist its a matter of basic profit taking. A member using the name Acrobatcharacterized the situation this way:
> AUR is dead for now, profit switching multipools like Wafflepool raped and killed it yesterday. The difficulty is so high that it takes ages for new blocks to be found by miners. Because of this and dropping prices dedicated miners stopped mining and moved on.Yesterday, Auroracoin had achieved the unprecedented accomplishment of dethroning Litecoin from its second-place spot behind Bitcoin. But for now it seems the order of the altcoin kingdom has been restored as the Icelandic currency has tumbled into the wintery ice.
> At last check Auroracoin was down 51% at $34.97 per coin on medium trading according toCoinmarketcap.com.
> __


*Litecoin Regains Title as Auroracoin Falls Hard*

http://altcoinpress.com/2014/03/lite...in-falls-hard/

----------


## presence

http://www.weibo.com/huobicom





> 问得好，我们在国内有N（N≥4）个机房，这些服务器都是刚到货，工程师正在测试，测试完毕分发到相应得机  房开始部署。//@北平北门锁钥: 没有机房吗？太土鳖了吧。不过也像干活的样，赞一个_◆_◆
> @火币网
> _动真的！在为上线LTC做准备呢_
> 
> 
> 
> ____
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

Regarding wolong, do you know what IRC channel that is?  He shut off his twitter and I have no idea what he is doing now.

----------


## muh_roads

Some crazy weird buying going on today with doge.  How is it that the candlestick wick tops can blow past so many of my sell orders?  Something about candlesticks I guess I still don't understand...

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/132

----------


## presence

They can't blow past your sell orders.  Not possible.  

Not sure which IRC that was... picked it up via reddit link

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Can we get an update on LTC?  Thanks.

----------


## nayjevin

> Can we get an update on LTC?  Thanks.


It is at an insane price for its actual value.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It is at an insane price for its actual value.


Ugh.  Thanks for commenting with that completely useless opinion.

----------


## nayjevin

> Ugh.  Thanks for commenting with that completely useless opinion.


It's just what everyone is saying.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's just what everyone is saying.


Umm... no it's not?

----------


## presence

> Nah DOGE is not going to go up that fast. Break through 300? Yes probably. Real resistance @ 360 right now.
> 
> []
> 
> 
> Mate are you serious?
> 
> You wouldn't be a member of the Litecoin Dev Team now would you be? . . . 
> 
> ...










Curious... how's that doge investment going Oz?  Perhaps one could muster an apology?


warm regards,

presence

----------


## presence

> Ugh.  Thanks for commenting with that completely useless opinion.




sleep in LTCBTC sell orders over 0.0400


Look for support at MA 60 on 6h.

Look for a peak in 20 days when MA 90 and 270 on 12h cross again.  


Else



HOLD

----------


## muh_roads

> sleep in LTCBTC sell orders over 0.0400
> 
> 
> Look for support at MA 60 on 6h.
> 
> Look for a peak in 20 days when MA 90 and 270 on 12h cross again.  
> 
> 
> Else
> ...


Can you explain moving averages again and how you look for that and what to look for?

----------


## presence

> Can you explain moving averages again and how you look for that and what to look for?



MA 60 on 6h is the orange line here... where support is seen at price = $15.   I am not personally attempting to trade for this point.  I bought at 16.37 and i'm happy to hold as I'm looking for an LTCBTC breakout to 0420 and I don't want to miss the boat.




Moving average is a line connecting the average price for the specified number of candles in the past.   

So for MA 20 on the current candle... I'd calculate the average price for the previous 20 candles, get a value and plot a point on the current candle.   

For the previous candle... I'd get an average price for the 20 candles before it... plot a point.   

For 3 candles back... I'd look at the 20 candle before that candle, get an average price... plot a point.  

4 candles back... I'd look at the 20 candles before the one 4 candles back... get an average, plot a point


over and over back in time..

then connecting those points is "MA 20"


to adjust your MA or EMA lines at bitcoinwisdom go to SETTINGS/INDICATOR PARAMETERS.


When price is rising the lower numbered moving averages are ABOVE the higher numbered MA's... so 20 would be above 100.  When price is falling the MA's cross over and the lower numbered MA's are below the higher numbered MA's... so MA 20 would be below MA 100 in a bear market.




As a matter of historical significance... when MA 90 and 270 cross again on 12h candles we should see resistance as seen in this chart:


http://i62.tinypic.com/rjkx9d.png


You can go back in time in your Gox or Bitstamp charts and view 12h w/ MA settings 270 and 90 in the August 2013 time period to get a sense of what I'm talking about.


Another tidbit to consider about MA's, when you change  chart perspective you must change your MA settings in a mathematically linear fashion to preserve the same lines.


So

MA 60 on 6h =
MA 30 on 12h =
MA 15 on 1d =

MA 180 on 2h=
MA 360 on 1h=
MA 720 on 30m=
MA 1440 on 15m=
MA 4320 on 5m= 
MA 21600 on your 1m chart


In practical terms... Bitcoinwisdom does not allow you to calculate MA's greater than 1000 because of the limited number of candles displayed.


In technical analysis there are other common "moving averages" that are calculated in more complex ways than "simple moving average" as I've described above.   



Examples include:

MA Simple Moving Average
EMA Exponential Moving Average
DEMA Double Exponential MA
KAMA Kaufman Adaptive MA
MAMA Mesa Adaptive MA
MAVP Variable Period MA
T3 Triple Exponential MA
TRIMA Triangular MA
WMA Weighted MA
MACD MA of Convergence and Divergence


More info on MA's here:

https://www.tradingview.com/stock-ch...Moving_Average
http://stockcharts.com/help/doku.php...oving_averages
http://www.incrediblecharts.com/indi..._selection.php




I used 14 15 16 17 so you could see the Blue line on the bottom when rising Bull and on the top when falling Bear.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Curious... how's that doge investment going Oz?  Perhaps one could muster an apology?
> 
> 
> warm regards,
> 
> presence


He's probably long gone by now.

----------


## presence

I just found this... one of the last "fontas" predictions he posted before being banned from btce trollbox:

----------


## lotsOfCake

Just realized;
LTC price on btcchina is ~ 100 yuan. 
Mental barrier!

I'm eager to watch the breakthrough. :-D

Also, I wish bitcoinwisdom would hurry up and add btcchina's ltc/cny pair!

Presence: I didn't really understand your reasoning for - if we were to have a bull run now - how to tell that ltc/btc is slowing down..... You drew a kind of a long term growth curve. What parameters will you be looking at and why ?
I'd be looking at ltcbtc june/july 2013, but basically just linear curve matching :1

Any ideas?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> MeowBit!  » Press Release
> 
> 
> 
> *Press Release*
> March 4, 2014. FOR IMMEDIATE WORLDWIDE RELEASE.
> Announcing *MeowBit*, the _all-browser_ Anti-Censorship, Anti-Hijacking  Dot-Bit Free Software for Windows.
> *WEBSITE*: http://meowbit.com
> *Video on YouTube:* http://goo.gl/3ryszo
> ...



http://meowbit.com/press-release/

----------


## presence

not sure what it means but gox coins are moving around this morning:

http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...oxhtmlnew_20k/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...nd2v?context=3

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Guys I have a hookup on "preowned" gold and silver jewelry just over spot... let me know if you're interested:


*$650* 10k 23g



*$30* Sterling 20g




99 Sterling Ingot  $28 shipped (under spot)





Lots of other pieces; recently connected via friends to a "I buy gold" pawn situation. 



Crypto or BTCe Code Preferred

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> 


Fingers crosed !!

----------


## presence

IMAGE MAY EXTEND OF EDGE OF PAGE "click view image"

----------


## presence

Don't be this guy >>>>

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

It appears to me that if you want Bitcoin for what feels like $60 a piece instead of $600.  Buying Litecoin is the ticket.  1 year from now it could go from 0.025 to 0.25 for a 10x return.

In the time span since Jan 2013, BTC went from $100 to $5000 (when the article was published)

But in that same time span, LTC went from $100 to $30,000.   LTC is like BTC from the periods of 2010-2011 or so.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirh...h-30000-today/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It appears to me that if you want Bitcoin for what feels like $60 a piece instead of $600.  Buying Litecoin is the ticket.  1 year from now it could go from 0.025 to 0.25 for a 10x return.
> 
> In the time span since Jan 2013, BTC went from $100 to $5000 (when the article was published)
> 
> But in that same time span, LTC went from $100 to $30,000.   LTC is like BTC from the periods of 2010-2011 or so.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirh...h-30000-today/


It would be nice if you were right, but... keep dreaming.

Also... those are initial investments, not the prices of each currency's unit.

----------


## presence

A bit of botsmithing mojo... I thought I might start adding some stuff I've learned in coding bots at ct.org:



on coffescript entropy generation:

    E0 = Math.round(Math.random())              # 1's and 0's      
    E1 = Math.round(10*Math.random())           # 0 to 10
    E2 = (Math.round(10*Math.random()))/10      # 0.0 to 0.9
    E3 = (Math.round(100*Math.random()))/100    # 0.00 to 0.99
    E4 = (Math.round(1000*Math.random()))/1000  # 0.000 to 0.999
    debug 'E0: ' + E0 + ' E1: ' + E1 + ' E2: '+ E2 + ' E3: ' + E3 + ' E4: ' + E4






litepresence    View paste 
totally diggin' this entropy thing.   Each time I backtest the same bot on the same data I get slightly different results... but all centered around the same bad ass thing the bot was doing to begin with.

In the untouched version over a 2 week period I was making 20% cash gain.   With entropy... anything from 17% to 24% gain in the same period; each time I test something different spits out.

   Like I had a bot that was making 20% over a specified period

Then I added Math.random() to the buying criteria
Now it makes anywhere from 17% to 24%


 Goal = max number of users running same script

I have 25-30 users interested in my next script... together they represent about $10,000,000 that will be moving on and off of the books.
so it presents a challenge where "programming entroy" becomes a plausible solution
so far so good

Right now my "Dragon Slayer" is showing 85X return from Nov1 2013 to Jan1 2014. In its final form I'm hoping to have maybe 75X to 90X return. With everyone entering and exiting at different times with differently proportioned bids

    It will effectively create a sort of "lottery" out of the bot

albeit a very profitable one 

right now I'm just kind of tickled that the bot can do something totally random each time... yet still make pretty much the same profit

Like if its buying int he bottom of the trough... and there are about 12 15m candles in the trough... instead of picking 4 on the way down... or 4 on the way up... or "ideally" the 4 at the very bottom of bottoms.... The bots picking 4 candles "near" the very bottom; some on the way up and some on the way down... sometimes nailing the bottom sometimes not.

litepresence    then say I want a random number from 5.5 to 7 and E is my random number...
(E*1.5) + 5.5 => random from 5.5 to 7
which for my purposes is plenty random enough










on bid and ask size, plus account balances:
9:50 PM
litepresence    View paste 
    context.BID_SIZE = 0.1
    context.ASK_SIZE = 0.1
    CURRENCY = (Math.round(100*portfolio.positions[instrument.curr()].amount))/100
    ASSETS = (Math.round(100*portfolio.positions[instrument.asset()].amount))/100
    PRICE = instrument.ema(2) 
    MEANS = CURRENCY/PRICE 
    BID = (context.ASK_SIZE*MEANS)
    ASK = (context.BID_SIZE*ASSETS)
    CURRENCY_LIMIT = (Math.round(100*(CURRENCY + (ASSETS*PRICE))))/100
    ASSET_LIMIT = (Math.round(100*(ASSETS + (CURRENCY/PRICE))))/100
    debug 'Currency: $' + CURRENCY + '/' + CURRENCY_LIMIT + ' Assets: ' + ASSETS + '/' + ASSET_LIMIT


So this allows you to place a bid relative to the amount of money you have left or sell an asset relative to the amount of assets you have left.

It also "logs" the total currency in hand, total currency that you could have at market price, assets in hand, and total assets you could have at market price

----------


## muh_roads

> Also... those are initial investments, not the prices of each currency's unit.


What are initial investments?  The $600 range?  I don't think you understand where I'm coming from on this.  (pretend the 0.25 thing happens when responding)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What are initial investments?  The $600 range?  I don't think you understand where I'm coming from on this.  (pretend the 0.25 thing happens when responding)


$100

The price of the currency didn't go from $100 to $5000 or $30,000.  That's just what people who put $100 into it got out of it.  The wording is a bit obfuscated.

----------


## muh_roads

> $100
> 
> The price of the currency didn't go from $100 to $5000 or $30,000.  That's just what people who put $100 into it got out of it.  The wording is a bit obfuscated.


No I think it is accurate.

5 BTC = $100 in January 2013.  That became $5000 at the height by the end of the year.

LTC received a double benefit of being denominated in BTC + whatever additional people invested directly.

----------


## muh_roads

> Right now my "Dragon Slayer" is showing 85X return from Nov1 2013 to Jan1 2014.


Jesus Christ.  LOL

YTMND

Have you tested it real world? It looks like you are trying to prepare this thing for whenever the next paradigm run happens.

----------


## muh_roads

It sounds like it is official.  Huobi added LTC.

----------


## presence

http://cryptogeeks.com/litecoin-ltc-...m-google-cache

----------


## presence

> Fire coins Network
> Really moving ! In preparation for the on-line LTC it
> 
> these servers are just arrived , engineers are testing , the test was completed the room began to be distributed to the appropriate deployment .


http://www.weibo.com/huobicom

----------


## nayjevin

> It also "logs" the total currency in hand, total currency that you could have at market price, assets in hand, and total assets you could have at market price


Can you place bids based upon previous successful trades?  i.e. if PRICE > LASTTRADE*1.1 then SELL... iow volatility bet bot?

----------


## Dianne

Those that can understand charts, do you think we can play the highs and lows with LTC today or is it better to bag hold for the big increase presence is predicting?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No I think it is accurate.
> 
> 5 BTC = $100 in January 2013.  That became $5000 at the height by the end of the year.
> 
> LTC received a double benefit of being denominated in BTC + whatever additional people invested directly.


I'm not talking about 5 BTC, I'm talking about 1.  Besides, the way it's worded, $100 really is just talking about the return on an initial investment of $100.

----------


## presence

> Can you place bids based upon previous successful trades?  i.e. if PRICE > LASTTRADE*1.1 then SELL... iow volatility bet bot?



You could do that for sure.  

I'm partial to trading on RSI SAR, EMA cross, and EMA divergence.

----------


## muh_roads

> Those that can understand charts, do you think we can play the highs and lows with LTC today or is it better to bag hold for the big increase presence is predicting?


Rather than blow my load @ 025 I personally am slowly buying so I can grab @ 024 & 023 etc. if it drops in that direction.

I will slowly exit if it climbs to 027, 030, 033, 035, 037, 040 along the way up.  That way if it drops some after reaching any of those prices I can get back in lower.

----------


## Dianne

> Rather than blow my load @ 025 I personally am slowly buying so I can grab @ 024 & 023 etc. if it drops in that direction.
> 
> I will slowly exit if it climbs to 027, 030, 033, 035, 037, 040 along the way up.  That way if it drops some after reaching any of those prices I can get back in lower.


Great, thanks !

----------


## presence

I was asked today in the btce trollbox by user emirc if "bitcoin days destroyed" was a good buy/sell indicator long.  

imho... NO it is not a clear indicator of price movements:

----------


## presence

Back on the subject of profitable charts:


"2 weeks rising consolidation" 


IMAGE MAY EXTEND BEYOND PAGE "right click view"

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> *CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index*
> 
> 
> 
> $633.55£378.82€456.63
> Last updated: Mar 9, 2014 at 19:06 GMT
> 
> *Forget Bitcoin vs Fiat, Welcome the Hybrid Economy*
> http://www.coindesk.com/forget-bitco...ybrid-economy/
> ...


..

----------


## nayjevin

> You could do that for sure.  
> 
> I'm partial to trading on RSI SAR, EMA cross, and EMA divergence.


Haha I shouldn't have said 'can you' cause I wasn't looking for freebies.  Anyway that's one thought I had for a bot but I found no api call to previous transactions in the documentation.  The other is the 'free coin bot' that uses a standard Ema to choose a dip,  buys 10 coins, then sells 9 when the price reaches PRICE*1.1+(TRADEFEE).  For what it's worth.

----------


## presence

http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post...oin-foundation




> *The Two-Bit Idiot*
> 
> I'm an entrepreneur and former VC who makes the business case for #Bitcoin on its journey from speculative investment to world-changing utility. Truth-teller.
> 
> You can sign up for my daily bitcoin news digest, the "Daily Bit" by visiting: http://eepurl.com/JgGy5
> 
> *Coup or Death for the Bitcoin Foundation?*
> 
> Not a happy Friday, Idiots.
> ...





*YIKES!**  Thats Scathing!*

----------


## presence

> *Concession*Dear Idiots, 
> 
> I’m not going to bury the lead; I am not publishing the article tomorrow that I said I was going to on Friday.  
> 
> In fact, I never intended to (not yet anyway), and I certainly never intended to loop in the main-stream media so that they could pile on to our fledgling community.  I simply hoped that a deadline would pressure Jon and Peter to resign quickly (and appropriately).
> 
> While my accusations on Friday were 100% truthful, I now see that I have overplayed my hand.  Rather than go all-in with a losing hand, I’m mucking my cards.  I never anticipated this degree of backlash from within the community.  As such, any further efforts to publicly push for resignations are not well-focused, and I plan to turn down the rhetoric.   
> 
> On the other hand, I’ll reiterate that while my hyperbolic tone was poor and regrettable, I continue to believe that the Bitcoin Foundation in its current incarnation is significantly damaged, and that Peter Vessenes and Jon Matonis should resign.  But it may be better to let the Foundation die a slow, quiet death than to organize a public execution.   
> ...


http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/


He has nothing, IMO.

Don't care either way.  I think the BTC Foundation is just playing a game of trojan horse and pretending to be buddies with regulators to stall, delay, and let regulators think they have power to control BTC which they don't.

----------


## Simran

Presence, my homie! <3

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm not talking about 5 BTC, I'm talking about 1.  Besides, the way it's worded, $100 really is just talking about the return on an initial investment of $100.


Missed this post.

I don't know if it was 5 BTC she was talking about.  I just rounded to $20 because I can't remember.  I think the real price was $13 in January.

Anywho...what are we arguing about here?  You're talking about 1, she is talking about $100.  What does it matter?  The price grew roughly 50x or so in 2013 at the time of writing.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Missed this post.
> 
> I don't know if it was 5 BTC she was talking about.  I just rounded to $20 because I can't remember.  I think the real price was $13 in January.
> 
> Anywho...what are we arguing about here?  You're talking about 1, she is talking about $100.  What does it matter?  The price grew roughly 50x or so in 2013 at the time of writing.


Oh, never mind.

----------


## Dianne

> http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/


Who is that guy?

----------


## muh_roads

> Who is that guy?


The community seems to respect him a great deal, although I'm not sure why.  He's talked about all over from btctalk to twitter.  I don't know the history there.

----------


## Dianne

> The community seems to respect him a great deal, although I'm not sure why.  He's talked about all over from btctalk to twitter.  I don't know the history there.


LOL he sounds kind of nutty.

----------


## presence

*UPDATE 2-Mt. Gox files US bankruptcy, opponents call it a ruse*

Reuters - ‎49 minutes ago‎
Opponents said *Karpeles* recently moved millions of dollars of bitcoins. * Case may revive criticisms of U.S. shell corporations. By Tom Hals. March 10 (Reuters) - Mt. Gox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, received U.S. bankruptcy protection on *...*



*Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy in US -- 2nd Update*

Wall Street Journal - ‎27 minutes ago‎
Lawyers for the customers who argued in Monday's court hearing against the automatic halting of their lawsuit said that Mt. Gox Chief Executive Mark *Karpeles* transferred more than $100 million of bitcoins over the weekend. Lawyers from Mt. Gox said that *...*



*Mt. Gox Wins Protection From US Suits During Japan Bankruptcy*

Businessweek - ‎17 minutes ago‎
The facts known to date indicate that it was caused or related to a flaw in the software algorithm that underlies Bitcoin, and 'hacking' attacks of one or more persons, Mt. Gox Chief Executive Officer Mark *Karpeles* said in a sworn statement filed in the Dallas *...*



*Japanese Bitcoin Exchange Files US Bankruptcy Case*

ABC News - ‎25 minutes ago‎
Mt. Gox CEO Robert *Karpeles* blamed most of the losses on computer hackers who took advantage of the exchange's flawed software. The missing currency, valued at $473 million at the time of Mt. Gox's Feb. 28 bankruptcy filing in Japan, represents about 7 *...*




*Mt. Gox files bankruptcy in US and faces more hacks*

Christian Science Monitor - ‎2 hours ago‎Mt. Gox's failure was reinforced on two more fronts over the weekend: the Bitcoin exchange filed for bankruptcy in the United States on Monday, while hackers infiltrated Mt. Gox founder Mark *Karpeles*' Reddit and Mt. Gox account, and posted an alleged *...*

*Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy in US -- Update*

Wall Street Journal - ‎3 hours ago‎
Mt. Gox, the struggling Japanese bitcoin exchange, has filed for bankruptcy protection in a U.S. court to stop customers from freezing any of the company's assets that are located on U.S. soil. Lawyers put Mt. Gox Co. Ltd. into Chapter 15 protection in Dallas on *...*



*Mt. Gox Chief Stole 100000 Bitcoins, Hackers Claim*

InformationWeek - ‎5 hours ago‎
Hackers seized control of the personal blog of Mark *Karpeles*, CEO of the bankrupt Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange, on Sunday and posted a message accusing him of stealing 100,000 bitcoins (BTC). "It's time that MTGOX got the bitcoin communities wrath instead *...*



*Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Files for U.S. Bankruptcy as Death Spiral Continues*

Wired - ‎52 minutes ago‎
At a press conference last month, Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* admitted that the company lost around 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins  worth around half a billion dollars. He blamed a known issue in the bitcoin protocol that enabled hackers to trick the *...*



*Does Mt. Gox CEO still control all those stolen bitcoins?*

Fox News - ‎7 hours ago‎
According to the hackers, *Karpeles* still controls all of the cryptocurrency he says was stolen recently in the biggest heist of bitcoin's brief history. Mt. Gox was the world's largest bitcoin exchange until about 850,000 bitcoin were allegedly stolen during a breach *...*



*Mt. Gox files for Chapter 15 bankruptcy in the US*

MarketWatch (blog) - ‎5 hours ago‎
The class-action lawsuit was filed against Mt. Gox and Chief Executive Mark *Karpeles* on Feb. 28 in Illinois on behalf of all people in the U.S. who held bitcoins in the exchange by the law firm Edelson PC. The lawsuit seeks the return of the customers' funds *...*



*Report: Mt. Gox CEO Holding 'Stolen' Bitcoins*

PC Magazine - ‎4 hours ago‎
Hackers this weekend targeted the Reddit account and personal blog of Mark *Karpeles*, CEO of the bankrupt Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange, posting information online that they claim proves *Karpeles* is actually hoarding bitcoins he claims were stolen. The hackers *...*



*Mt. Gox: Bankrupt, Accused and Hacked, Oh My!*

TechNewsWorld - ‎2 minutes ago‎
Also on Sunday, hackers broke into the blog and Reddit account of Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* and published data purporting to show that Mt. Gox then had access to nearly 1 million bitcoins, and that there was a difference of about 500,000 Bitcoins between *...*




*Mt. Gox files for US bankruptcy as hackers publish company records*

ExtremeTech - ‎54 minutes ago‎Considering that 850,000 BTC is still worth roughly $530 million at today's exchange rates, it's easy to see why so many people are incensed at the actions of Mt. Gox and the disappearance of its CEO, Mark *Karpeles*. Reports on Mt. Gox's troubles over the *...*

*Mt. Gox CEO's blog hacked, allegedly reveals company's true Bitcoin balances*

PCWorld - ‎8 hours ago‎
Hackers attacked the personal blog of Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* on Sunday and posted what they claim is a ledger showing a balance of some 950,000 bitcoins based on records they obtained from the defunct exchange for the virtual currency. They said *...*



*Mt. Gox files for Chapter 15 bankruptcy protection in US*

CNET - ‎8 hours ago‎On Sunday, hackers hijacked the Reddit account and personal blog of Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* and left messages alleging fraud, charging that the exchange kept some of the bitcoins that had been reported stolen. At its height, Japan-based Mt. Gox was *...*

*Hackers Hit Mt. Gox Exchange's CEO, Claim To Publish Evidence Of Fraud*

Forbes - ‎Mar 9, 2014‎
On Sunday, hackers took over the Reddit account and personal blog of Mark *Karpeles*, Mt. Gox's CEO, to post an angry screed alleging that the exchange he ran had actually kept at least some of the bitcoins that the company had said were stolen from users.



*What's News*

Wall Street Journal - ‎3 hours ago‎
Mt. Gox filed for bankruptcy protection in a U.S. court to stop customers from freezing any of the Japanese bitcoin exchange's assets located on U.S. soil. Japan Display priced its IPO at the bottom of its proposed range, bringing the potential size of the Apple *...*



*Mt. Gox files for bankruptcy in US*

ZDNet - ‎7 hours ago‎
Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* said the loss -- taking place over several years -- was due to "weaknesses in the system" which allowed cyberattacks and Bitcoin theft to occur. Over the weekend, anonymous hackers claimed to have broken in to Mt. Gox systems *...*



*Mt. Gox files for US bankruptcy to halt class-action suit*

PCWorld (blog) - ‎3 hours ago‎
It was made on behalf of Mt. Gox by Mark *Karpeles*, the company's sole board member. Mt. Gox has two shareholders: Tibanne Co. Ltd., which owns 88 percent, and an individual, Jed MacCaleb, who holds 12 percent. MacCaleb developed the software that *...*




*Time for a career change? Here's what being Bitcoin's beloved robber baron ...*

DailyTech - ‎58 minutes ago‎
After our two part exposé on Bitcoin robber baron Mark Marie Robert *Karpelès*, the fallen CEO's "MagicalTux" blog was briefly taken over by hackers this weekend, before someone -- perhaps Mr. *Karpelès* -- shut it down. I. Mark *Karpelès* Decides to Stop *...*



*Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Files for US Bankruptcy Protection*

NBCNews.com - ‎6 hours ago‎
Mt. Gox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in Dallas, a move that will temporarily put U.S. legal action on hold against the Japanese company. The company said without such protection it would spend *...*



*Mt. Gox files for U.S. bankruptcy to halt class action*

GlobalPost - ‎4 hours ago‎
CoinLab is seeking damages of $75 million from Mt. Gox. Mark *Karpeles*, Mt. Gox's chief executive officer, was scheduled to be deposed in that case later this month, according to court documents. Mt. Gox is represented by David Parham of Baker & McKenzie.




*Hackers break into Mt. Gox's servers, claim the company still has customers ...*

TechSpot - ‎1 hour ago‎According to a Forbes report, the hacker group on Sunday took over the personal blog and Reddit account of Mt. Gox's CEO Mark *Karpeles* to announce that the exchange has access to a portion of the Bitcoins that the company had said were stolen from *...*








*RPT-Mt. Gox files for US bankruptcy protection*

Reuters - ‎6 hours ago‎
March 10 (Reuters) - Mt. Gox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, filed for U.S. Bankruptcy in Dallas late Sunday, a move that will temporarily put U.S. legal action on hold against the Japanese company. The company said without U.S. bankruptcy *...*



*The Mt. Gox Saga Just Got Way More Twisted*

Entrepreneur - ‎4 hours ago‎
Who's Goxing who now? Vitriolic hackers hijacked Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles's* personal blog, Tumblr and Reddit accounts yesterday, hurling accusations that head of the defunct exchange is sitting on the missing $500 million-plus bitcoins he says cyber *...*





*Hackers allege Mt. Gox head controls 'stolen' Bitcoin; fraud committed*

UPI.com - ‎5 hours ago‎During the weekend, however, anonymous hackers said they hacked into the trading post and accessed Mt. Gox data, ZDNet reported Monday. After taking over*Karpeles*' blog and an account during the weekend, the group that hacked into the system posted:.




*The $350 Million Bitcoin Heist May Have Been An Inside Job*

Uproxx - ‎22 minutes ago‎Hackers broke into both the personal blog and the Reddit account of Mark *Karpeles*, the CEO of Mt. Gox, to decry Mt. Gox's complete silence on the issue, right about the time a whole bunch of data dropped about what's on Mt. Gox's servers. Turns out *...*

*Bankrupt Exchange Mt. Gox Still Has $600 Million in Bitcoins, Hackers Claim*

Mashable - ‎11 hours ago‎
According to a report by Forbes, Hackers claim to have stolen the data from Mt. Gox's servers; they also took control of CEO Mark *Karpeles*' Reddit account and personal blog. "It's time that MTGOX got the bitcoin communities wrath instead of [the] Bitcoin *...*



*Hackers take over Mt. Gox CEO's blog, post claimed evidence of fraud*

Examiner.com - ‎5 hours ago‎If you really, really, really anger the Internet community you might expect a visit from hackers. Thus, on Sunday, hackers took over Mt. Gox CEO *Karpeles's*blog and published a post allegedly exposing fraud committed by him. The post was also published on *...*

*'Hacked docs' prove MtGox has 1 MILLION Bitcoins, claim blog-snatchers*

Register - ‎7 hours ago‎
As Bitcoin exchange MtGox was filing for bankruptcy in the US on Sunday, a group of hackers took over MtGox CEO Mark *Karpeles*' personal blog, which has since been taken down, and posted a 716MB file they claimed they had snatched from MtGox's *...*



*Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox files for bankruptcy in the US*

Engadget - ‎5 hours ago‎
Over the weekend, hackers reportedly gained access to Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles*' personal blog as well as his Tumblr and Reddit accounts, accusing the company of fraud and alleging it kept some of the Bitcoins that had been reported stolen.



*Why I Do Not Trust Bitcoin*

Seeking Alpha - ‎8 hours ago‎
A Bitcoin-generated free market system becomes an inherently adversarial process, pitting the best interests of the buyer against the best interests of the seller. Rising concerns about the security of the Bitcoin software indicate that its economic system is *...*




*Australian Bitcoin traders burnt in Mt.Gox crash*

The Australian Financial Review - ‎9 hours ago‎Despite statements from Mt.Gox that the loss was a theft, resulting from flaws in the system's code, those demanding vigilante justice have attacked the online accounts of Mt.Gox's former chief Mark *Karpeles*, publishing his personal information and the *...*

*Until bitcoin has oversight, it's a volatile uncertainty*

Dallas Morning News - ‎20 hours ago‎
A $470 million digital heist last month at the Tokyo-based exchange pushed the company into bankruptcy and left many bitcoin investors empty-handed with little recourse. Mt. Gox chief executive Mark *Karpeles* offered some hollow condolences during a late *...*




*Mt. Gox, Mark Karpeles Targeted In Alleged Bitcoin Hack*

ReadWrite - ‎8 hours ago‎According to Forbes, hackers on Sunday allegedly hijacked *Karpeles*' personal blog and Reddit account to post a pair of angry letters, which said the Mt. Gox CEO had stolen at least some of users' bitcoins for himself. Included with the letters was a large file *...*




*Hackers revealed Mt. Gox face behind the mask*

The Westside Story - ‎11 hours ago‎
*...* tools which company may have used to transfer Bitcoins over the network. Hackers also defaced MtGox CEO, Mark *Karpeles*' blog and uploaded the data they have leaked, which many users have confirmed to be accurate and since then blog went offline.



*Q & A on bitcoins*

Foster's Daily Democrat - ‎21 hours ago‎
The Music Hall in Portsmouth will be hosting The Bitcoin Symposium as part of the Digital Portsmouth series. The evening of networking and presentations will take place Thursday, March 20 from 5:30 p.m. to 9 p.m. at The Music Hall Historic Theater, *...*



*MtGox files for US bankruptcy, hackers post alleged evidence of fraud*

TechRadar UK - ‎4 hours ago‎
The file and *Karpeles*' personal blog have already been taken down, but before they went offline users on Twitter and Reddit were able to confirm their personal account balances on the included Excel spreadsheet, potentially verifying its legitimacy. It's likely *...*



*Mt. Gox faced 150000 attacks per second: Report*

Times of India - ‎9 hours ago‎ TOKYO: Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox faced massive hacker offensives last month, coming under 150,000 DDoS attacks per second for several days ahead of its spectacular failure, a report said. The Tokyo-based exchange, which filed for bankruptcy *...*

*Japanese Bitcoin Exchange Files US Bankruptcy Case In Dallas*

CBS Local - ‎1 hour ago‎
A pile of Bitcoins are shown here after Software engineer Mike Caldwell minted them in his shop on April 26, 2013 in Sandy, Utah. Bitcoin is an experimental digital currency used over the Internet that is gaining in popularity worldwide. (Photo by George *...*



*Mt. Gox Files For US Bankruptcy Protection  Bitcoin News Roundup*

Reason - ‎1 hour ago‎
CNN is reporting that Mt.Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* resigned from the Bitcoin Foundation's board of directors last weekend. The Mercatus Center's Jerry Brito breifly mentioned the slow implosion of Mt. Gox in his article for Reason.com yesterday titled "Is Bitcoin *...*



*Mt. Gox Files For Chapter 15 Bankruptcy Protection In The United States*

newsBTC - ‎6 hours ago‎
The facts known to date indicate that it was caused or related to a flaw in the software algorithm that underlies bitcoin, and 'hacking' attacks of one or more persons, Mark*Karpeles* said in a sworn statement submitted in the filing. More developments as they *...*



*Mt. Gox CEO lied about massive Bitcoin theft, according to alleged hackers*

SC Magazine - ‎59 minutes ago‎
Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* lied when he said that the former world's biggest Bitcoin exchange  which filed for bankruptcy protection in the U.S. on Sunday and in Japan on Feb. 28  had been relieved of 850,000 Bitcoins by hackers, according to the alleged *...*



*Bitcoin exchange seeks U.S. bankruptcy protection*

The Hill (blog) - ‎6 hours ago‎
Mt. Gox, which used to be the world's largest bitcoin exchange, filed for U.S. bankruptcy protection late Sunday. The Japan-based company filed for bankruptcy in a Dallas court, according to Reuters. By seeking bankruptcy, it hopes to avoid extensive legal *...*



*Hackers Leak Mt. Gox Database, Reveal Blog of Former CEO*

SF Weekly (blog) - ‎6 hours ago‎
On Sunday, hackers broke into *Karpeles*' now-erased now-defunct blog to find the exchange's balance sheets, which, the hackers say, suggest that *Karpeles* fleeced his clientele. In a profanity-sluiced screed that quickly made the rounds on Reddit and other *...*



*Hackers dox Mt. Gox CEO, say they have proof of fraud*

Help Net Security - ‎8 hours ago‎
This release would have been sooner, but in spirit of responsible disclosure and making sure all of ducks were in a row, it took a few days longer than would have liked to verify the data," they wrote in a message on *Karpeles*' blog, and offered a link to a 716 *...*



*Mt. Gox CEO's blog hacked; alleged Bitcoin balances posted*

CNET (blog) - ‎Mar 9, 2014‎
The Reddit account and personal blog of Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles*, MagicalTux.net, were hijacked Sunday and defaced with a post that alleged the exchange kept some of the coins allegedly stolen in fraudulent withdrawals. Hackers also posted a 716MB *...*




*Hackers accuse Mt. Gox of pocketing users' Bitcoins*

IT PRO - ‎6 hours ago‎According to a report by Forbes, the hackers gained access to the Reddit account and personal blog of Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* to post a missive detailing their accusations. It's time that MTGOX got the Bitcoin communities wrath instead of [the] Bitcoin *...*

*Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox files for US bankruptcy*

New York Post - ‎8 hours ago‎
Chapter 15 of the bankruptcy code is designed to facilitate dealing with insolvency cases with parties in more than one country. Mt. Gox, based in Tokyo, filed for bankruptcy in Japan on Feb. 28. Meanwhile, the blog of Mt. Gox Chief Executive Mark *Karpeles* *...*



*Queens Bankruptcy Attorney Bruce Feinstein, Esq. Speaks About the Issues of ...*

DigitalJournal.com - ‎9 hours ago‎
On Friday, February 28, 2014, the world's largest Bitcoin exchange filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan. The company, Mt. Gox, was based in Tokyo but has thousands of Bitcoin investors around the world. And while Mt. Gox has little recognition among *...*




*Mt. Gox files for US bankruptcy amid new hacker claims*

SlashGear - ‎7 hours ago‎Mt. Gox originally declared 744,408 bitcoins had been taken, but documents acquired by hackers over the weekend claim the figure is more like 951,116. The alleged numbers - as well as other details - were posted to Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles*' own blog.


*Bitcoin exchange MtGox faced 150000 attacks per second*

Sydney Morning Herald - ‎16 hours ago‎Bitcoin creator identity still a mystery; Explainer: How crypto currencies work. Bitcoin exchange MtGox faced a massive hacker offensives last month, coming under 150,000 denial-of-service attacks a second for several days ahead of its spectacular failure, *...*


*What's Going On With Bitcoin?*

NerdWallet (blog) - ‎3 hours ago‎The site grew under *Karpeles*, and eventually handled more than 70 percent of the world's bitcoin float  amassing billions of dollars in theoretical assets, given bitcoin's exchange rates  but still operating in a regulatory vacuum. This much is by design.

*Anonymous hackers uncover alleged proof of MtGox fraud from site's CEO*

Ars Technica - ‎Mar 9, 2014‎
Following the MtGox Bitcoin exchange losing millions to a hack and filing for bankruptcy, anonymous attackers took over the personal blog and reddit account of MtGox CEO Mark *Karpeles* on Sunday. After seizing control, the hackers posted (Pastebin) a *...*



*Mt.Gox Hack Allegedly Reveals Bitcoin Balances, Customer Account Totals*

TechCrunch - ‎21 hours ago‎
Anonymous hackers have defaced Mt.Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles*' blog and have uploaded a data dump of customer data that, according to users with accounts on the site, is accurate. A Reddit user created an Excel spreadsheet [mirror] of anonymized user *...*



*Anonymous hackers claim MtGox still has 'stolen' Bitcoins*

SC Magazine UK - ‎5 hours ago‎
Forbes reports that anonymous hackers took over community website Reddit, as well as the personal blog of MtGox CEO Mark *Karpeles*, on Sunday to allege that *Karpeles*had actually retained some of the Bitcoins that the company said had been stolen from *...*



*Bitcoin exchange faced mountain of hacker attacks*

News24 - ‎16 hours ago‎
This book aims to teach readers how to build and maintain a working e-commerce Website using... Now R645.00 buy now. Tokyo - Bitcoin exchange MtGox faced massive hacker offensives in February, coming under some 150 000 DDoS attacks per second *...*




*Bitcoin exchange MtGox hacked 150000 times per second*

The Utah People's Post - ‎12 hours ago‎The Tokyo-based exchange, MtGox, is under severe cyber attack with hackers assessing its data 150,000 times per second. The bitcoin exchange has filed for bankruptcy protection in February. Reports say, it was hit with crippling distributed denial-of-service *...*

*Currency taking off bit by bit in the Northeast*

Foster's Daily Democrat - ‎Mar 9, 2014‎
DOVER  New Hampshire residents love their freedom. It's right on their license plate: Live Free or Die. Now bitcoin, an up-and-coming electronic currency, is giving people around the globe the chance to choose money that falls outside the government *...*




*Bitcoin credibility in the balance as woes spread*

Global Times - ‎9 hours ago‎Last week, Canadian-based online bitcoin bank Flexcoin was forced to close down after losing about $600,000 in the virtual currency to hackers. The shuttering came hot on the heels of the collapse of MtGox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, which *...*


*Hackers Allegedly Dump Transaction, Customer Balance Data From Mt. Gox*

newsBTC - ‎20 hours ago‎The data dump, which exceeds 700MB, includes a balance sheet that states a bitcoin balance of over 900,000 BTC, leading many in the bitcoin community to speculate that Mark *Karpeles*, the exchange's CEO, has made off with the cash. In addition, several *...*

*Hackers Claim Mt. Gox Sat on 'Stolen' Bitcoin*

Newser - ‎7 hours ago‎
(Newser)  Hackers say the now-bankrupt Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox has been less than honest about money lost in a major security lapse. Yesterday, they hacked into CEO Mark *Karpeles*' blog and Reddit account, announcing that the company had kept *...*




*Bitcoin exchange MtGox 'faced 150000 hack attacks every second'*

Telegraph.co.uk - ‎Mar 9, 2014‎*...* collapse, a lot of people say they feel the truth is not being stated. Mark *Karpeles*, chief executive of MtGox, apologised for the collapse at a news conference earlier this month, blaming a weakness in our system, but predicted that the market will grow.





*Web accounts and information stolen by hackers of the boss of MtGox*

The Periscope Post - ‎10 hours ago‎Web accounts and information stolen by hackers of the boss of MtGox. Hackers have taken over some of the accounts of Mark *Karpeles* web - head of the troubled MtGox Bitcoin exchange. The attack on Mr *Karpeles* seems to have been motivated by growing *...*




*Mt. Gox Files For US Chapter 15 Bankruptcy*

Benzinga - ‎4 hours ago‎
CEO Mark *Karpeles* is blaming cyber attacks and theft for the loss of monetary gain and has even stated that it can go bankrupt at any point in time. "For several weeks MtGox customers have been affected by bitcoin withdrawal issues that compounded on *...*



*Massive hacking attacks revealed*

NEWS.com.au - ‎22 hours ago‎
Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles* filed for bankruptcy after the site suffered heavy attacks by hackers. Source: AP. BITCOIN exchange MtGox faced a massive hacker offensives last month, coming under 150,000 DDoS attacks a second for several days ahead of its *...*




*Bitcoin Mt. Gox Crash: Hackers Claim Mark Karpeles Lied About Bitcoin Balance*

International Business Times UK - ‎6 hours ago‎Hackers have stolen account transaction information from beleaguered Japanese bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox, claiming CEO Mark *Karpeles* was lying about the amount of bitcoins the company had before it filed for bankruptcy. The stolen information claims to *...*

*Hackers Claim Mt. Gox Still Sitting On Bitcoins*

TechWeekEurope UK - ‎11 hours ago‎
Hackers who took control of Mt. Gox chief Mark *Karpeles*' personal blog, Reddit and Tumblr accounts have posted information they alleged showed the Bitcoin exchange was still sitting on coins. Following an epic breach, Mt. Gox said it had lost at least *...*




*Mt. Gox hackers post Bitcoin balances on CEO's own blog*

SlashGear - ‎21 hours ago‎Given how much Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox has lost, both in terms of money and trust, it was only a matter of time before hackers struck back. Now such a group of enraged victims have hijacked Mt. Gox CEO Mark *Karpeles*' own blog to reveal just how much *...*

*Mt Gox fielded MASSIVE DDOS attack before collapse*

Register - ‎21 hours ago‎
A Japanese newspaper is reporting that during the spectacular collapse of the Mt Gox Bitcoin exchange, the operation's servers were also suffering a large-scale DDOS attack. The Yomiuri Shimbun's English-language Japan News reports that the attacks in *...*




*Hackers Break Into Mt. Gox CEO's Blog, Reveal Customers' Bitcoin Balances*

International Business Times - ‎16 hours ago‎Mark *Karpeles* (L), chief executive of Mt. Gox, attends a news conference at the Tokyo District Court in Tokyo Feb. 28, 2014. The hackers uploaded a series of files that included a spreadsheet of anonymous user accounts with balances. Reuters.


*Mt. Gox CEO's Blog Hacked*

Ubergizmo - ‎18 hours ago‎Mt. Gox CEO's Blog Hacked Mt. Gox, the Bitcoin exchange that has fallen from grace, has not quite reached the bottom just yet. We have just heard word that Mt. Gox's CEO, Mark *Karpeles*, had his personal blog that is known as MagicalTux.net, in addition to *...*

*Hackers claim MtGox still has access to 'missing' Bitcoin*

SiliconANGLE (blog) - ‎13 hours ago‎
According to a report in Forbes, the hacker or hackers successfully compromised Mark *Karpeles*' personal blog and Reddit account, before using these two platforms to post 'evidence' that the MtGox CEO still had access to some of the missing Bitcoins.



*Hackers Claim Mt. Gox Still Has Investors' Bitcoins*

Gizmodo - ‎12 hours ago‎
The same hackers also gained access to the personal blog and Reddit account of CEO Mark *Karpeles* to post messages claiming that Mt. Gox still had access to bitcoins that had been reported stolen. Indeed, the files posted by the hackers claim that Mt. Gox *...*




*Bitcoin Exchange Mt. Gox Hit by 150000 DDoS Attacks Per Second Before ...*

International Business Times UK - ‎10 hours ago‎Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox suffered about 150,000 hacking attacks per second for several days before its collapse last month, according to a report. Japanese newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun reported that the exchange was hit by continued distributed *...*





*Cryptocurrency News Round-Up: Mt. Gox Lies, Bitcoin Gun Store and Dogecoin ...*

International Business Times UK - ‎9 hours ago‎The debacle surrounding Mt. Gox continues to rumble on as CEO Mark *Karpeles* remains silent following his application for bankruptcy at the end of last month. Over the weekend hackers released information they claim shows *Karpeles* continues to lie about *...*




*Mt. Gox Bitcoin website files for US bankruptcy*

Newstalk 106-108 fm - ‎6 hours ago‎
A website which recently stood as the most popular Bitcoin exchange in the world has filed for bankruptcy. Mt. Gox filed for bankruptcy in a court in Texas late last night. The company said without US bankruptcy protection it would spend substantial funds *...*

----------


## muh_roads

Well we're definitely not out of the Gox woods yet...lol

So the question is...are we headed for 700 or 500?

----------


## presence

ADVERTISEMENT


CLICK HERE TO PURCHASE



*Dragon Slayer* v1.0 LTCUSD 30m


RSI
SAR
EMA Divergence
Long Market EMA 
Slope
Incremental Limit Bidding


plus:


***** *Entropy Lottery* *****


No two backtests will ever be the same:


*+/-* $600,000 return on $10,000 Nov 1 2013 - Jan 1 2014


*"2014-01-01 23:00 Simulation completed. Balance: 801392.10 USD"*


(Buy and Hold during the same period = $99,000 on $10,000)



crypto long, more coinz short!


litepresence


rpfpresence@gmail.com


An entropy free version with $950,000 return in this time frame 
will be released with VIP pricing send email for details.




Donations Gratiously Appreciated in LTC:
LL92nc7U8dYeVfdG5cmQwPsSDEYPLphY7B



Announcing:

DRAGON SLAYER v1.0







There's a Part A and Part B. This is part A and must be turned ON during the "money" phase of the bubble and OFF before the "red dragons" phase of a bubble just after the "final run of the bulls" see image here for bubble phases:



Part A trades LTCUSD and as backtested returns an astounding 50-85X CASH or (5X to 8.5X LTC) from Nov1 to Jan1 2014; approximately $350,000+ on $5,000 invested in the 60 days. The return will never be the same in any backtest as the bot includes purposeful programming "entropy" so that no two iterations run the same. Many people with lots of funds can run the same script and not all bid at the same time, the bot adds an extra level of "randomness" beyond "offsets".



*Part A REQUIRES a bullish bubble circumstance to run correctly.* 

Of course with any bot there may be a degree of "overfitting" to previous data, but I have a firm belief that every crypto "bubble" follows a similar course as seen here:

I expect an "institutional investor" bubble this coming summer... towards June/July/August similar in scale to the April Gox bubble or the November China bubble.




After "final run of the bulls" the Part A bot must be disabled and part B engaged. Part B runs on any pair to USD... PPCUSD LTCUSD NMCUSD or BTCUSD. It trades like this:

Each version of Part B shows about 50% CASH gain while price declines during "red dragons". Multiple versions can be run concurrently; you can run PPC NMC LTC and BTC to USD all on the same account... the "swarm" of bots should pick out the best deals on the books.


Part A buys based on ema divergence... the deeper price falls the harder it buys. Part A sells on RSI/SAR logic during the green dragons, new paradigm, and bulltrap phase of the bubble. On the way into despair Part A dumps based on price crossover of a coeffecient of EMA 1000 on 30m candles. The bot then buys again based on ema divergence incrementally into despair. It is prevented from offloading again by a coeff of EMA 1000 until price is moving well towards "final run of the bulls". When Part A sells... it dumps incrementally and with entropy factors as to have less market impact.


After the "final bull run" Part B should be engaged for the "red dragons" phase of the bubble.


It is my market expectation that PART A will be effective from about April 1st until September 1st of 2014.

----------


## XTreat

If I am savvy enough to build my miners, manage my pools, and make the occasional trade, how difficult would you say it is to implement one of these bots?

----------


## presence

> If I am savvy enough to build my miners, manage my pools, and make the occasional trade, how difficult would you say it is to implement one of these bots?



Implementing the bots is simple...  Sign up to ct.org, generate API keys at your exchange, input keys, push play.


Building them is weeks on end of test tweak test tweak test tweak

----------


## muh_roads

> ADVERTISEMENT (under construction)
> 
> **pending approval at cryptotrader.org/strategies market**
> 
> 
> *Dragon Slayer* v1.0 LTCUSD 30m
> 
> 
> RSI
> ...


Can you make an LTC to BTC instead of LTC to USD?  I prefer "like-kind exchanges" when dealing with alts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like-kind_exchange

Can I use the BTC to USD on Bitstamp?

----------


## presence

> Can you make an LTC to BTC instead of LTC to USD?  I prefer "like-kind exchanges" when dealing with alts.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like-kind_exchange
> 
> Can I use the BTC to USD on Bitstamp?


1) not yet; I have 60 days of dev time in this LTCUSD version and it will take many more for LTCBTC to be effective.   Next release already in the works is BTCUSD... then I'll work on ratio traders.  

2) part B will work BTC to USD stamp.   (I gave you a free copy of part B already) but right now is not the best time to deploy imho.  During "red dragons" part B should work on just about any crypto to USD at just about any exchange... your best "deal" will be to run multiple instances and let the "swarm" pick the best deals off the books for you.

----------


## nayjevin

> Can you make an LTC to BTC instead of LTC to USD?  I prefer "like-kind exchanges" when dealing with alts.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like-kind_exchange
> 
> Can I use the BTC to USD on Bitstamp?


Yes, trading in currencies has tax implications which could potentially be complex and frustrating.   Until gains taxing crypto is worked out or Rand Paul is elected and we are allowed to keep the fruits of our labor, I see no reason to be in fiat.

----------


## presence

> Yes, trading in currencies has tax implications which could potentially be complex and frustrating.   Until gains taxing crypto is worked out or Rand Paul is elected and we are allowed to keep the fruits of our labor, I see no reason to be in fiat.


When I "cash out" then I've traded for hard currency... until then its all just internet points.  GTFO w/ this tax bs.  You can't tax "potential" cash earnings that could be goxed at any minute.  I don't report $#@! that happens on a crypto exchange.   "USD" points on a foreign server on the back side of the planet is not "trading in currency". What happens in magic internet money land stays in magic internet money land.

Until you have cash IN HAND in excess of cash invested, you don't owe jack.  

my .02

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> CLICK HERE TO PURCHASE
> 
> 
> 
> *Dragon Slayer* v1.0 LTCUSD 30m
> 
> ...


You mean to tell me that, if I buy your bot and give it $10k to play with, it will hand me back over $300k?  I realize it depends on what happens in the future, but is the return really that great?

----------


## presence

> You mean to tell me that, if I buy your bot and give it $10k to play with, it will hand me back over $300k?  I realize it depends on what happens in the future, but is the return really that great?


I've yet to backtest the bot and get an output as little as $300,000.


Every time the bot is backtested, it returns a different amount on that 60 day period.  The highest I've seen is $801,000 the lowest I've seen is $460,000; it averages about $600,000 on $10,000 invested in 60 days... ASSUMING a high volatility bullish bubble circumstance similar to the China Bubble; its a dragon slayer.  

I also have a VIP version available that backtests without entropy at a consistent $840,000 during the Nov 1 - Jan 1 2014 period.  My goal is to boost that version to $1m USD on $10k invested in 60 days; free updates and free part B on non rental basis for VIP subscribers.

Can I say with certainty that the bot will do exactly as it bactests? Absolutely NOT.  But can I say for sure that this backtest outperforms the best of the best on the market at CT.org, yes, hands down. 


With any bot "slippage" becomes an issue as order size grows... There are four factors in this bot designed to minimize slippage:

1) randomized bid size
2) micro bidding over multiple candles
3) randomized bid timing
4) ct.org "offsets"

----------


## PaulConventionWV

That is astronomical.  I must say I'm interested.  The best time to use this would be in the red dragons phase of the next post-bubble?  How much does the bot itself cost?

----------


## nayjevin

> When I "cash out" then I've traded for hard currency... until then its all just internet points.  GTFO w/ this tax bs.  You can't tax "potential" cash earnings that could be goxed at any minute.  I don't report $#@! that happens on a crypto exchange.   "USD" points on a foreign server on the back side of the planet is not "trading in currency". What happens in magic internet money land stays in magic internet money land.
> 
> Until you have cash IN HAND in excess of cash invested, you don't owe jack.  
> 
> my .02


I agree in that what you are saying is sensible policy, I just don't see sensible policies around me in this world.

----------


## nayjevin

> You mean to tell me that, if I buy your bot and give it $10k to play with, it will hand me back over $300k?  I realize it depends on what happens in the future, but is the return really that great?


I've seen bots that backrest 1000%+ returns and lose money when deployed.  That said, those bots were NOT written a) by an expert b) by THIS expert c) with such well thought contingency d) by an austrianish programmer e)with expert technical analysis of current market conditions, and tailored for likely future conditions.

I say this because it reads as guarantee even more than I would bet Pres wants it to.  Is anyone insane enough that I need to explain I believe in what Pres is doing here?  Buy this bot if you're gonna buy any bot, methinks.  But backtest results are not for budgeting the future.

----------


## XTreat

> I've yet to backtest the bot and get an output as little as $300,000.
> 
> 
> Every time the bot is backtested, it returns a different amount on that 60 day period.  The highest I've seen is $801,000 the lowest I've seen is $460,000; it averages about $600,000 on $10,000 invested in 60 days... ASSUMING a high volatility bullish bubble circumstance similar to the China Bubble; its a dragon slayer.  
> 
> I also have a VIP version available that backtests without entropy at a consistent $840,000 during the Nov 1 - Jan 1 2014 period.  My goal is to boost that version to $1m USD on $10k invested in 60 days; free updates and free part B on non rental basis for VIP subscribers.
> 
> Can I say with certainty that the bot will do exactly as it bactests? Absolutely NOT.  But can I say for sure that this backtest outperforms the best of the best on the market at CT.org, yes, hands down. 
> 
> ...



What if I invest $1000 instead of $10,000? Do I get the same return?

----------


## XTreat

I have a few questions, 

1) I keep my crypto about 70/30  between off the exchange and on, that being said its about 70/30 again btc/ltc on the exchange. So if I run this bot part A only trades LTC and leaves my BTC alone or do I need to move my BTC off the exchange?

2) How many people do you expect to buy this bot? Will the number of people buying it effect the outcome?

3) before I get too excited, can you give us an estimate of costs? 

4) How do you become a VIP? Do you just pay more or is it something to do with ct.org?

----------


## presence

150 BTC wall destroyed at 02600 LTC/BTC in past 10 minutes

----------


## presence

> What if I invest $1000 instead of $10,000? Do I get the same return?


% wise, yes essentially no different

----------


## muh_roads

> 150 BTC wall destroyed at 02600 LTC/BTC in past 10 minutes


Selling a piece?

----------


## muh_roads

pres your bot scares the $#@! out of me.  Sounds too good to be true.  I will definitely give you a handsome share if it works.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> pres your bot scares the $#@! out of me.  Sounds too good to be true.  I will definitely give you a handsome share if it works.


I was thinking the same thing.  How is pres not filthy rich by now?

----------


## presence

> That is astronomical.  I must say I'm interested.  The best time to use this would be in the red dragons phase of the next post-bubble?  How much does the bot itself cost?


There are 2 parts... 

Part A is for green dragons, despair, and final run of the bulls

Part B is for red dragons

Part A should be effective starting April 1st but most profitable as we begin our ascent into the next bubble.

----------


## muh_roads

If the bot is sold to too many people, does it not work as well?  How far are you spreading it?

I'm sure I could cover it as an exclusive to RPF if it works really well.

----------


## muh_roads

Huobi just added an "LTC coming soon" banner it sounds like...

Up to 027

----------


## presence



----------


## kpitcher

since btcchina is already accepting litecoin without really changing the price will another China exchange really do much?

----------


## presence

> If the bot is sold to too many people, does it not work as well?  How far are you spreading it?
> 
> I'm sure I could cover it as an exclusive to RPF if it works really well.


I'm putting much work into tuning the bot so that when it buys or sells... it does so incrementally and places orders on the books in random yet effective places.


Sometimes it ignores candles and simply doesn't trade even if its a great time.
When bids are placed they are done in randomized blocks of ten with about a penny difference in pricing
Bids are spread over multiple candles... so instead of "all in" because now is the best time... it goes in or out over 5 to 15 30m candles.

Every attempt was made to make its movements small, randomized, and stealthy.


Here's a glimpse from the code... this is a small part of the "overbought" sell criteria:




> else 
> 
>             if C > A and ((stochrsi_k <= (E5 - 0.5 + context.stochrsi_low_threshold)) && (instrument.price <= sar_last)) 
> sell(instrument,0.25*E2*ASK,(PRICE - E2*(PRICE/200)),1776)
>                 sell(instrument,0.25*E3*ASK,(PRICE - E3*(PRICE/200)),1776)
>                 sell(instrument,0.25*E4*ASK,(PRICE - E4*(PRICE/200)),1776)
>                 sell(instrument,0.25*E5*ASK,(PRICE - E5*(PRICE/200)),1776)
>                 sell(instrument,0.25*E6*ASK,(PRICE - E6*(PRICE/200)),1776)
>                 sell(instrument,0.25*E7*ASK,(PRICE - E7*(PRICE/200)),1776)
> ...


E2 through E11 are randomized numbers from 0.000 to 0.999
ASK is a % of your ASSETS
PRICE is the median price of the candle
1776 is 24 seconds less than 30 minutes

So if the entropy factored sell criteria is met; SELL a small randomized amount of your assets, at a price near to the median price, yet randomized, and do so in multiple small randomized pieces, if any off the orders are unmet in 29:36 minutes, pull them off the books, rinse and repeat.

----------


## lotsOfCake

I find that the bot categories change when your volume / amounts go up.
For example, there's a couple of niches that open up, for example "how to sell a large amount without crashing the market". You don't want to be that guy that sells everything at once and drops the price to $100.

Some stuff can be done like that without bots too. Let's say you want to sell ltc for usd. Take lets say $10000, place a safe buy order of ltc at a point where it's unlikely to sell, and sell your ltc to the bots that are "adjusting to the new average based on market depth", then remove your buy order.

Note; from what i saw of presence's original coffee script ltc trader on MA, i think the volume would have to be quite high before it would fail under it's own weight. It did however:
1. Feed itself (one bot buying at an almost-ma convergence would trigger a stronger convergence signal for another bot running a similar script) and 
2. Enable other people to predict what the bots are doing and sell at them at the top.

That said, I'm a noob at actually making bots, so take this for what it's worth.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> since btcchina is already accepting litecoin without really changing the price will another China exchange really do much?


Huobi is much bigger than btcchina, so I think the price will rise, but not by too much.

----------


## muh_roads

> since btcchina is already accepting litecoin without really changing the price will another China exchange really do much?


Huobi I think is less regulated than btc china for some reason.  Kinda like how the feds were picking on gox.  Chinese officials are giving btc china more $#@!.  Which is why Huobi grew in larger volume.

Both suffer from the same banker deposit problems though.

It'll move some...we'll see what happens.  I wish China had a stake in wanting Russia to win the latest conflict.  Turn the deposit spigot back on.  Currency wars always shut up the opposition.

----------


## torchbearer

I found that ebay provides better prices for coins.
For instance 1000 doge on exchanges are floating around $.80
but on ebay, 1000 doge are going around $1.40

to get around terms of use, people are auctioning 1 penny, with the dogecoins included.

----------


## XTreat

Okay, Pres I am gonna try your bot, I'll get a membership and pick it up when I get home from work tonight, please just tell us when to start and stop. For now I am assuming a tentative start date of 1 April.

----------


## presence

> I was thinking the same thing.  How is pres not filthy rich by now?


I'm working on that... I bought into crypto w/ $400 last April @80

----------


## presence

> Okay, Pres I am gonna try your bot, I'll get a membership and pick it up when I get home from work tonight, please just tell us when to start and stop. For now I am assuming a tentative start date of 1 April.



Regarding "tentative start date" 

I have no way of testing the bot on any data older than October 2013... in terms of bubble phase we're at the equivalent to about July/August 2013... so I have no idea how it performed then given the lack of older backtest data at cryptotrader.org during that time period.

If you're interested in buying the bot outright instead of rental, send me an email rpfpresence@gmail.com

1 BTC

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Regarding "tentative start date" 
> 
> I have no way of testing the bot on any data older than October 2013... in terms of bubble phase we're at the equivalent to about July/August 2013... so I have no idea how it performed then given the lack of older backtest data at cryptotrader.org during that time period.
> 
> If you're interested in buying the bot outright instead of rental, send me an email rpfpresence@gmail.com
> 
> 1 BTC


I would like to try the dragon slayer bot, but no American exchanges trade LTC.  I do LTC/BTC on BTC-e, but it's much harder to connect my bank account to a foreign exchange.

----------


## presence

> I have a few questions, 
> 
> 1) I keep my crypto about 70/30  between off the exchange and on, that being said its about 70/30 again btc/ltc on the exchange. So if I run this bot part A only trades LTC and leaves my BTC alone or do I need to move my BTC off the exchange?
> 
> 2) How many people do you expect to buy this bot? Will the number of people buying it effect the outcome?
> 
> 3) before I get too excited, can you give us an estimate of costs? 
> 
> 4) How do you become a VIP? Do you just pay more or is it something to do with ct.org?



The bot will not touch your BTC

The number of people running the bot really isn't as important as how much funds are behind it.  Its impossible for me to know how much funds are behind it with this current sales method.  I'm working with a payment processing vendor for a custom API interface so I can keep track of these kinds of thing with future bot releases  The goal is to sidestep cryptotrader.org and become stand alone like "butterbot".

Costs:  $50/mo for cryptotrader.org access + $100/mo for the bot.   Or 1 BTC for lifetime access to the bot script... I'll also throw in any other cool scripts I have atm.

VIP access at cryptotrader allows you to trade more money; tbh I have no idea how he limits you and I've heard of ppl running $100k plus on basic subscriptions.
VIP access to the bot eliminates most of the entropy factors and gives you the "hypertuned" version that continually backtests at $840k on 10k invested.   This is the version I'll be running personally.    

Both versions lotto and VIP will be retuned shortly for better slippage protection.  As long as you're giving the bot less than $100,000 atm it shouldn't be a problem.  I'll relabel v2.0 at that time.

----------


## presence

> I would like to try the dragon slayer bot, but no American exchanges trade LTC.  I do LTC/BTC on BTC-e, but it's much harder to connect my bank account to a foreign exchange.


Why not just transfer BTC to BTCe, then swap for LTCBTC when you get there?

----------


## presence

> Okay, Pres I am gonna try your bot, I'll get a membership and pick it up when I get home from work tonight, please just tell us when to start and stop. For now I am assuming a tentative start date of 1 April.


Be sure to use the link in my ad as I get "referral commission"

----------


## presence

> I found that ebay provides better prices for coins.
> For instance 1000 doge on exchanges are floating around $.80
> but on ebay, 1000 doge are going around $1.40
> 
> to get around terms of use, people are auctioning 1 penny, with the dogecoins included.



???

Better in that they are better for the vendor... not the consumer.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Why not just transfer BTC to BTCe, then swap for LTCBTC when you get there?


I thought the dragon slay bot had to trade directly between LTC and USD.  I noticed you had a LTC/BTC bot now, but that one isn't as good, understandably.

Do you have a BTC/USD bot that is hypertuned?

----------


## presence

> since btcchina is already accepting litecoin without really changing the price will another China exchange really do much?

----------


## torchbearer

> ???
> 
> Better in that they are better for the vendor... not the consumer.



better for the maker. 
My assumption is people on ebay are not comfortable trading on exchanges. (see Mt. Gox)
so they use PayPal to insure their purchase without having to start an account with some unknown exchange.

There are many takers, and so few makers on Ebay, thus its a sellers market.
I'm just trying to let the RPF makers know where the best place to sell is located.
Take it, leave it, or bitch about it.

----------


## XTreat

> Regarding "tentative start date" 
> 
> I have no way of testing the bot on any data older than October 2013... in terms of bubble phase we're at the equivalent to about July/August 2013... so I have no idea how it performed then given the lack of older backtest data at cryptotrader.org during that time period.
> 
> If you're interested in buying the bot outright instead of rental, send me an email rpfpresence@gmail.com
> 
> 1 BTC


Okay, I don't know anything about using bots, I didn't realize you rented them on a monthly basis. 

So then I should wait until you let us know you have implemented yours until I get the membership and rent the bot. 


I do greatly appreciate the personal advise we get here.

----------


## XTreat

> I would like to try the dragon slayer bot, but no American exchanges trade LTC.  I do LTC/BTC on BTC-e, but it's much harder to connect my bank account to a foreign exchange.


Buy your BTC at coinbase, transfer your BTC to BTC-e, trade BTC for LTC, implement bot. Profit.

----------


## amonasro

> better for the maker. 
> My assumption is people on ebay are not comfortable trading on exchanges. (see Mt. Gox)
> so they use PayPal to insure their purchase without having to start an account with some unknown exchange.
> 
> There are many takers, and so few makers on Ebay, thus its a sellers market.
> I'm just trying to let the RPF makers know where the best place to sell is located.
> Take it, leave it, or bitch about it.


Prices are higher on Ebay because the risk is higher. Paypal is notorious for chargebacks, and they happen often with cryto sellers. I would never sell there.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Buy your BTC at coinbase, transfer your BTC to BTC-e, trade BTC for LTC, implement bot. Profit.


No, but I don't have a bank account connected to BTC-e.  They're a foreign exchange.

----------


## evilfunnystuff

> No, but I don't have a bank account connected to BTC-e.  They're a foreign exchange.


The only reason you would need to link a bank account is to transfer fiat in or out, to cash out just trade your fiat balance for BTC, then transfer the btc to your "home exchange" and cash out.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The only reason you would need to link a bank account is to transfer fiat in or out, to cash out just trade your fiat balance for BTC, then transfer the btc to your "home exchange" and cash out.


Can you have a positive fiat balance at btc-e without having a fiat bank account hooked up?

----------


## presence

> better for the maker. 
> My assumption is people on ebay are not comfortable trading on exchanges. (see Mt. Gox)
> so they use PayPal to insure their purchase without having to start an account with some unknown exchange.
> 
> There are many takers, and so few makers on Ebay, thus its a sellers market.
> I'm just trying to let the RPF makers know where the best place to sell is located.
> Take it, leave it, or bitch about it.




Ok I get you...  I though you were implying we should buy coins on ebay.   

Yes  I agree... selling coins on ebay is an excellent business proposition; however one should consider the consequences of chargebacks.

----------


## presence

> Can you have a positive fiat balance at btc-e without having a fiat bank account hooked up?



Yes, once you send BTC to BTCe you can exchange for BTCe USD, RUR, or EUR; or any of the alt coins including LTC they offer.  To get back out of BTCe you would need to send BTC back to Coinbase.  

Simran will also cash you out $1000/day to via "BTCe code" to paypal.

----------


## XTreat

[QUOTE=

Simran will also cash you out $1000/day to via "BTCe code" to paypal.[/QUOTE]

This is good to know. I was unaware.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes, once you send BTC to BTCe you can exchange for BTCe USD, RUR, or EUR; or any of the alt coins including LTC they offer.  To get back out of BTCe you would need to send BTC back to Coinbase.  
> 
> Simran will also cash you out $1000/day to via "BTCe code" to paypal.


Thanks, pres.  Did you say buying the bot costs 1 BTC?

----------


## torchbearer

> Ok I get you...  I though you were implying we should buy coins on ebay.   
> 
> Yes  I agree... selling coins on ebay is an excellent business proposition; however one should consider the consequences of chargebacks.



Wouldn't a buyer reputation include negs for charge backs?

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> Wouldn't a buyer reputation include negs for charge backs?


Yeah but if someone could rip off someone for thousands, why would they care?

bitcointalk.org advises you not use reversible payment systems on the top sticky on their currency exchange board.  Too many have been screwed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0

I would wait until eBay fleshes out their patent into something actually working.  They are indeed thinking about how to be on top of this.

----------


## Dianne

> Can you have a positive fiat balance at btc-e without having a fiat bank account hooked up?


Yes ..  I've been sitting on fiat at btc-e with no bank account linked .     When it's time to cash out, I will convert the cash to btc and transfer to coinbase where I do have a bank account linked.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> Yes ..  I've been sitting on fiat at btc-e with no bank account linked .     When it's time to cash out, I will convert the cash to btc and transfer to coinbase where I do have a bank account linked.


I'm in eu. I sometimes (but not right now) have fiat on btc-e.
Easiest way for me to get fiat from crypto into my bank account is through a verified/linked bitstamp account. There are also several other small exchanges around. I do not give my bank information to btc-e. Also I try to keep as little as possible of my crypto on exchanges in the long run. At the moment I basically only trust linux wallets with backups of wallet.dat, not because it's necessarily the only thing that is safe, but it is the only thing I can understand the safety level of. Also I always transfer a token amount first and verify that it arrives, before transferring large amounts (in case of typos and wallet version problems and forking and all these things).

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes ..  I've been sitting on fiat at btc-e with no bank account linked .     When it's time to cash out, I will convert the cash to btc and transfer to coinbase where I do have a bank account linked.


I guess that just never really occurred to me.  I've been using btc-e to play LTCBTC, but I never thought about putting fiat in there.  You learn something every day.

----------


## torchbearer

> Yeah but if someone could rip off someone for thousands, why would they care?
> 
> bitcointalk.org advises you not use reversible payment systems on the top sticky on their currency exchange board.  Too many have been screwed.
> 
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0
> 
> I would wait until eBay fleshes out their patent into something actually working.  They are indeed thinking about how to be on top of this.



Well, it would be a huge exchange with a lot of everyday people who don't normally get into these smaller exchanges.

----------


## muh_roads

> Well, it would be a huge exchange with a lot of everyday people who don't normally get into these smaller exchanges.


I agree with you, but I would wait until new rules and tech has been applied to protect the seller.

You'll get a nice premium price at localbitcoins.com and it is safer, IMO.

----------


## Dianne

In some thread there was mention of a Ron Paul Forums member who has an internet silver coin store.     I can't seem to find the company name again.

Does anyone know the name, phone number or website?

----------


## XTreat

> In some thread there was mention of a Ron Paul Forums member who has an internet silver coin store.     I can't seem to find the company name again.
> 
> Does anyone know the name, phone number or website?


Amagi Metals.com


Megan Renee is their PR director and she is a RPF member.

----------


## Dianne

> Amagi Metals.com
> 
> 
> Megan Renee is their PR director and she is a RPF member.



Great, thank you !

----------


## Dianne

Ok, so I called Amagi Metals.com but wasn't sure who to ask for.    Are they all RPF members, or is there someone special I should order through?      I definitely want the RPF member to get the sale.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Ok, so I called Amagi Metals.com but wasn't sure who to ask for.    Are they all RPF members, or is there someone special I should order through?      I definitely want the RPF member to get the sale.


Does it work that way?  Usually people just go to their website and order what they want.

----------


## Dianne

> Does it work that way?  Usually people just go to their website and order what they want.


Well someone said in one of these threads (can't find it now), they called and got a roll of End the Fed .999 coins for $450. which I thought was a great price.    They are advertised at a higher price on the net probably due to unexpected fluctuation of prices.     This was right after I paid $512. for a roll on eBay; so I took special notice of that information lol.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Well someone said in one of these threads (can't find it now), they called and got a roll of End the Fed .999 coins for $450. which I thought was a great price.    They are advertised at a higher price on the net probably due to unexpected fluctuation of prices.


You could spend as much as you want on spot prices over there if you're solely interested in fancy silver coins. For me, I'd just order the Indian Heads which are the cheapest and even more so if you pay with cash or check. They also take BTC, LTC and Doge iirc.

----------


## Dianne

> You could spend as much as you want on spot prices over there if you're solely interested in fancy silver coins. For me, I'd just order the Indian Heads which are the cheapest and even more so if you pay with cash or check. They also take BTC, LTC and Doge iirc.


Do you mean these:


1 OZ Silver Buffalo | Indian Head Round .999 Fine Silver

1 oz Silver Buffalo Round in brilliant uncirculated condition and .999 fine silver. Each lot of 20 comes in a tube.
$22.35

----------


## muh_roads

I wasn't aware Amagi was ran by any RPFer's.  There aren't too many of us here.  And it has never been advertised...

----------


## XTreat

> I wasn't aware Amagi was ran by any RPFer's.  There aren't too many of us here.  And it has never been advertised...


At the time I got a roll for $470, I am not sure what spot is now, but the End the Fed coin was their own product and was one of the cheapest they had. I usually go for the cheapest myself.

I don't think I said the owners were RPF members, I said the owners were RP people and their PR girl was a forum member. 

I just ordered mine online, I didn't get any special deals or anything.

----------


## Dianne

> At the time I got a roll for $470, I am not sure what spot is now, but the End the Fed coin was their own product and was one of the cheapest they had. I usually go for the cheapest myself.
> 
> I don't think I said the owners were RPF members, I said the owners were RP people and their PR girl was a forum member. 
> 
> I just ordered mine online, I didn't get any special deals or anything.


Thanks for the information XTreat !!   I'll just shop on their online site.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


The hyperbolic notion that bitcoin can even possibly resemble a Ponzi scheme has been refuted over and over again.

----------


## muh_roads

> The hyperbolic notion that bitcoin can even possibly resemble a Ponzi scheme has been refuted over and over again.


He has no comprehension of "value".  Let him continue to embarrass himself.  It is rather amusing.

----------


## nayjevin

I need a 'Costanza bot' that trades the opposite of what I think it should.

----------


## Dianne

> I need a 'Costanza bot' that trades the opposite of what I think it should.


I need a bot, period ...    I don't mine, but I buy after the fact ..   I'm seeing now that the true profits come from mining and not by day trading ..

So, litepresence turn me on ..   how does a noob begin mining?   Noob101.

----------


## kpitcher

> I need a bot, period ...    I don't mine, but I buy after the fact ..   I'm seeing now that the true profits come from mining and not by day trading ..
> 
> So, litepresence turn me on ..   how does a noob begin mining?   Noob101.


Mining is becoming more and more difficult, the ROI is a short window and it's easy to bet on the wrong pony. I think it's a very risky proposition and I've been mining for years. 

Bitcoin/SHA256 mining is entirely ASIC - specialized mining chips - and to get in the game you're talking a few thousand for the smallest cheapest rig. Litecoin/scrypt ASICs are out also, more powerful ones on their way. If you go the GPU route that is still viable for scrypt and a few others. However GPUs are also a shorter window on ROI and profits are dropping too. 

To earn a full bitcoin a day, at current difficulty rates, you're looking at 

about 8 THs for Bitcoin/SHA256  =~ about 30K USD worth of gear (if you can find someone who even has product for delivery, most are months to wait for a pre-order)
about 150 Mhash for Litecoin/scrypt =~ 60K for ASICs that aren't shipping yet, more for the smaller performing ASIC currently out. Or over 200 of the top graphic cards which would be about 120K - but the GPUs are hard to get your hands on. My last order took 2 months to completely fill. 

The difficulty is growing by 50%+ each month, profits drop accordingly.

Buying coins directly may be the best way to go. 

With all that said, based on your end goals and if you have a technical side then mining is doable. Just know it's an arms race that is getting harder and harder to keep up at all times.

I think Litepresence has the right idea on letting money earn more money.

----------


## presence

> Mining is becoming more and more difficult, the ROI is a short window and it's easy to bet on the wrong pony. I think it's a very risky proposition and I've been mining for years. 
> 
> Bitcoin/SHA256 mining is entirely ASIC - specialized mining chips - and to get in the game you're talking a few thousand for the smallest cheapest rig. Litecoin/scrypt ASICs are out also, more powerful ones on their way. If you go the GPU route that is still viable for scrypt and a few others. However GPUs are also a shorter window on ROI and profits are dropping too. 
> 
> To earn a full bitcoin a day, at current difficulty rates, you're looking at 
> 
> about 8 THs for Bitcoin/SHA256  =~ about 30K USD worth of gear (if you can find someone who even has product for delivery, most are months to wait for a pre-order)
> about 150 Mhash for Litecoin/scrypt =~ 60K for ASICs that aren't shipping yet, more for the smaller performing ASIC currently out. Or over 200 of the top graphic cards which would be about 120K - but the GPUs are hard to get your hands on. My last order took 2 months to completely fill. 
> 
> ...




I agree with the arms race notion.  I do think there is money to be made in IPO alt coins that can be mined by GPU.   Early bird gets the worm.    If I were to take the plunge into mining I think I'd start w/ a 6 PCI mother board and a milk crate setup of 3-6 GPU's.  Then keep my eyes on bitcointalk for the latest coin I can throw my machines on with ultra low difficulty.  


I'd be inclined to build it myself; component by component... there are lots of youtube videos out there on the basics of this premise.  Essentially you need:

A cheap 2.5 GHz chip
A 6 slot motherboard
4 gigs of ram
750w high efficiency gold/platinum power supply for every 3 GPU's
PCI extension cords
3 GPUs... 280x or 7950's are the most common
and  milk crate and a box fan.

upgrade would be another 3 GPU's and another power supply.

You'll need some VGA dummy plugs to trick your GPU's into believing they have a screen hooked up.

And if you don't want to go w/ a linux OS you'll need a harddrive... else w/ linux a 20g USB flash will do.

A cheapo 15" beater monitor will do the trick for setup.  



...but I'm not a "miner" as of yet and you should really ask some of the people that are more involved.

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

> I need a bot, period ...    I don't mine, but I buy after the fact ..   I'm seeing now that the true profits come from mining and not by day trading ..
> 
> So, litepresence turn me on ..   how does a noob begin mining?   Noob101.


kpitcher summed it up better than I could... basically mining is designed to be marginally profitable. When you have money-printing machines, the people that profit most are those who are developing new technology (ASICs) and those who can get them first.

I finished accumulating my Litecoin position yesterday, now can we continue upward?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I concur that mining probably is not the best way to go.  If trading feels too risky for you, then just hold your BTC and wait.

----------


## presence

*SILVER!
*




> You could spend as much as you want on spot prices over there if you're solely interested in fancy silver coins. For me, I'd just order the Indian Heads which are the cheapest and even more so if you pay with cash or check. They also take BTC, LTC and Doge iirc.



You guys should catch up with *Simran*:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...PayPal-BTC-LTC

He's an inspiring young man (17?) who got into mining LTC early in his mommas basement back when difficulty was nil.   He's been at btce for a small bit of forever, sits on a fat stack of crypto coins and is now moving into the scrap silver and gold as well as pre owned Jewelry business.   Depending on the piece his prices are at or near spot.

Simran will also cash you out of BTCe accepting up to $1000 daily of "BTCe code" for paypal and has reputation for being honest in his dealings:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=391439.0


He also runs a crypto news feed here:

http://thecryptoblog.com/


Not bad for a kid still learning prepositional phrases and algebra in public school.

I love supporting young entrepreneurs... Check him out!


presence

----------


## XTreat

I mine, I have been for a year or so. I find it to be pretty profitable. My $2500 investment paid itself off in about 3 months and now every thing I make is cherry minus power costs which are minimal here in GA. I pay about $.04 a kilowatt hour. 

Back when when LTC was $4 a pop I was just about breaking even. Now that its $16 (but much more difficult) I am bringing in about $300-$400 a month in value after electric costs.

----------


## presence

> I mine, I have been for a year or so. I find it to be pretty profitable. My $2500 investment paid itself off in about 3 months and now every thing I make is cherry minus power costs which are minimal here in GA. I pay about $.04 a kilowatt hour. 
> 
> Back when when LTC was $4 a pop I was just about breaking even. Now that its $16 (but much more difficult) I am bringing in about $300-$400 a month in value after electric costs.



Sweet would you describe your rig, list some parts and specs, post some pics... tell us more!

How much is your net vs gross w/ electric costs?

----------


## XTreat

I started with just one, it cost about $800. From there I just kept buying parts, eventually the china bubble came and I rushed to get a third one up.  


I am currently having a new house built and am having one one upstairs bedroom fitted for mining. I have a network infrastructure and four 20 AMP dedicated circuits. 

In about one month I will tear these apart and ebay them, meanwhile I am in the process now of accumulating the parts necessary to build a 20,000 kh/s mining room with about 8 rigs in it. 



[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## XTreat

The biggest mistake I made was using computer cases. This time I am building my own open air test benches, I actually just took a break from building the first one to type this out. 

In the set up above each box is putting out about 1250 kh/s at about 750w each. 

1250 kh/s right now gets about .3 LTC per day worth about $6   per day.
750w x 24 hours = 18kw/s x $.047 per kw/h  =                 $.84 per day. 

So each box nets about $5.16 per day at current difficulty.


In the summer months (JUN-SEP) power costs go up to $.08 per kw/h, so that will shave a little off of my profit. 




I did the math with LTC, but in reality I use automated switching pools to mine the current most profitable script coin. So i consistently make more than what is list above.


I exchange about 70% for BTC and 30% for LTC and thats all I hold.

----------


## KCIndy

> I did the math with LTC, but in reality I use automated switching pools to mine the current most profitable script coin. So i consistently make more than what is list above.



Do you mind sharing which automated switching pool you use?  I've been looking into that, but haven't had enough time to do any real research.

----------


## XTreat

Multipool.com seems to the best, but wemineall.com will probably challenge them. 



wemineltc.com right now is the most used ltc pool, it is well run and well vetted, the same guys are starting up wemineall.com and it should be top notch as well.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

I wouldn't enter mining at this time.

Why? Summer is coming. I know a lot of people got into mining during the fall/winter. Summer is going to have a lot of frustrated miners abandoning the pursuit. If your rig is running 80 celcius now (I don't run that hot, but lots of people do, i target 70), you will enter full meltdown mode in may, or else you will have to run air conditioning, effectively wiping out a large percentage of profit. So, people will either be burning out cards, or having to clock them way down. Leading to less profits, leading to less enthusiasm to buy more cards. 

So, AMD video card price crash will be totally in effect by may. I'm sure you'll be seeing whole rigs appearing on ebay far under MSRP. I doubt I'd buy them though, as most likely they'll be coming from the "run em hot, and hard" set ups. 

Personally, I'm just buying 750ti cards now, I can get 300 kh/s per card and run far cooler. It takes 2 to almost equal a 7950. I wouldn't buy a 7950 for more than 250, with the heat issue, and increased power consumption it wouldn't be worth the trouble. 

The 750ti's I can just run them, on risers with at most a box fan circulating room air, and they'll never over heat. 

So, that's what I'm waiting for sub 250 7950's or 280x's, then might be worth the trouble. Really, I doubt I'd pay more than 225, then I'd probably by good amount and just deal with it.  

Also, I'm crazy, so I'm disconnecting my central air vents to blow all air outside, as in I'm disconnecting my vents, and routing the air outside, in that way I can just run the fan, and it'll suck the house air to the outside. For personal cooling, I'm just using a window unit in one room with no mining rigs in it. That method, should create a constant flow of outside air being sucked into the house. So, hopefully that will help mitigate upper house temps. Plus box fans of course to circulate the local air by the miners. Even with that, it'll still probably consume an additional Kilowatt of energy per hour in the summer. 

I won't run air conditioning to cool the cards, that is bonkers, I'll just underclock the  amd's to maintain sub 80 at max. I would have never purchased them, if the 750ti's were available back then. Yes, you need more of them, but they aren't going to raise your house temp to a 150 degrees either.

----------


## Dianne

> Mining is becoming more and more difficult, the ROI is a short window and it's easy to bet on the wrong pony. I think it's a very risky proposition and I've been mining for years. 
> 
> Bitcoin/SHA256 mining is entirely ASIC - specialized mining chips - and to get in the game you're talking a few thousand for the smallest cheapest rig. Litecoin/scrypt ASICs are out also, more powerful ones on their way. If you go the GPU route that is still viable for scrypt and a few others. However GPUs are also a shorter window on ROI and profits are dropping too. 
> 
> To earn a full bitcoin a day, at current difficulty rates, you're looking at 
> 
> about 8 THs for Bitcoin/SHA256  =~ about 30K USD worth of gear (if you can find someone who even has product for delivery, most are months to wait for a pre-order)
> about 150 Mhash for Litecoin/scrypt =~ 60K for ASICs that aren't shipping yet, more for the smaller performing ASIC currently out. Or over 200 of the top graphic cards which would be about 120K - but the GPUs are hard to get your hands on. My last order took 2 months to completely fill. 
> 
> ...


hmmmmm, that sounds terrible.   I thought all I needed was a special video card lol  ..     I'll leave mining to the big boys.

----------


## XTreat

The thing about mining for me is it's fun, I got into it before it was really profitable because I thought it would be a fun hobby and my goal was to break even. 

I still enjoy it, I like perusing forums for new ideas and implementing my own,  and I am certainly more than breaking even, so I'm gonna turn it up a notch. 

I do have the cheap electricity on my side.

Wish me luck I guess.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Anyone notice the difficulty going down this last week? My payouts made a modest bump which is a first. Seems like some people have shut down and the newer ASICs are behind on delivery status.

----------


## presence

> The biggest mistake I made was using computer cases.



More pics of your new open air setup!

Be sure to run 12g wire on your 20 AMP circuits and use "20 AMP spec" outlets.   It wouldn't hurt you to get a cheap infrared themometer and keep track of your circuit breaker and wire temps.   Put some strong consideration into fire protection and get yourself a good 10lb fire extinguisher.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=517976.0

What are your thoughts on aquarium rigs submersed in mineral oil? 

http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

Have you looked at all into grid tied solar to offset summer electric cost?


Please post specs of each rig.  What GPUs, motherboards, ram, chips, OS... give us all the gritty detail 

Also where are you getting the good deals on parts and what does each complete rig cost?  

How much setup time do you have in a rig?


love it!

----------


## amonasro

Xtreat, awesome setup! While we're showing off our mining rigs, here's a story about my humble 3 Mhash rig. It's a multipurpose miner/gaming rig/media center/multi-monitor workstation. Best of all, it's quiet!

I've taken a sort of "hobbyist" approach, having started mining bitcoins with an old Radeon 4870 late 2012/early 2013. I then bought a bunch of coins last April and the rest is history. Actually, my last big purchase was from MtGox just days before DHL seized their Dwolla account. That was a close one.

I kept the 4870 running through the summer but during the asic difficulty jumps I turned it off. In November just before the altcoin craze I grabbed a 7990 but quickly realized that they run super hot and sound like a jet engine. My office is right next to the living room and my wife wasn't having it. I mined quite a lot of DOGE with that single setup, which proved to be profitable.

Enter an additional 7990, a couple of water blocks, and radiators. To save power I undervolted each core to where it was *barely* stable @ 1100/1500. Cards run in the low-mid 60s, but will probably be closer to 70 when summer hits. Over on the LTC forums I found a custom cgminer kernel that boosted my cards from 760 to 780Mh/s. Cool stuff. To play games I simply turn off 2 cores and push them back up to stock 1.2V. I use MSI Afterburner to switch between different profiles.

To get the four cores to run stable, I threw in an EVGA power boost. Nice little device, that. I also sold the PSU and replaced it with the much quieter (and more efficient) Corsair AX1200i. It is rock solid and the cards love the digital voltage regulation. The real-time power monitoring software is excellent and the fan barely spins (~1000rpm) at near full load. The peace of mind is worth it, knowing that I don't have anything that's overheating or being pushed to its thermal limits. 

So you can see I'm not exactly in it for the money, although I pull in between .5 and .75 LTC per day which I use for fun money and trading. I don't mine any altcoin except DOGE; not really keen on downloading unknown wallet software. It's been a fun project to tackle (watercooling can be a bitch) and I'll probably keep it running until its no longer profitable or dumps too much heat during the summer.



And the mandatory cgminer screenshot. Hardware errors? Yeah, that's due to the undervolt. I mentioned that they are just barely stable running between 1.11 and 1.16V @ 1100/1500, so I get a few per 24 hour period. My rejected shares have also gone down significantly since upgrading to the digital PSU.


_Thanks for reading and letting me share!_

----------


## XTreat

I am using all 6950 and 6970 cards, only MSI and Sapphire brands, they seem to work the best. 

Its really a very typical setup, 

ASROCK 970 Extreme4 MB 
AMD Sempron 145 CPU
4GB cheapo DDR3 RAM
Rosewill modular (kinda) 750w PSU
Refurbished $20 WD 160GB disk drive
Windows 7 64 bit
3 x 6900 series GPU

Each box cost about $800.
Each box gets about 1250 kh/s





Okay so I just finished this, so its not very neat. It likely won't ever be because I am not planning on keeping these older legacy cards once I get going. When I get it all moved into the new house with new hardware I will take the time to route and zip tie all the cables properly. 

But this is my first test bench, I am about to order parts to build seven more. They cost about $37 a piece if you do it yourself. On Ebay they go for $120-150 bones each.

I get my parts from here. http://www.estoconnectors.com/

I am gonna get them all built before I move so I can start installing right away. 

[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## XTreat

For any miners out there, this pool https://ghash.io/LTC is offering double rewards for the next 4 days. 

I have had my miners on it for the last day to check it out. 

Enjoy

----------


## XTreat

> What are your thoughts on aquarium rigs submersed in mineral oil? 
> 
> http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php


What's the point of this project? Crazy overclocking?

Answer: This project is intended as a cool conversation piece, and a fun do-it-yourself project. While there are certainly some thermal advantages, submersion cooling is usually not the best solution for overclocking. Due to the risk of tank failure if the oil reaches temperatures above 50C, we do not recommend submerging overclocked or extremely hot hardware in this system.

----------


## presence

https://cryptorush.in/index.php?p=buy-cryptorush-shares




> *Information on Buying CryptoRushShares*As of March 14th 2014 it's now possible to buy a new currency called CryptoRushShares (CRS), as stated in this Official Public Statement.
> *How does it work?*there will be a finite number of CRS, and the amount of % you hold is equal to the amount of % of the trade-fees across the exchange in return every week. You can also trade CryptoRushShares on the exchange. This means that shareholders of CRS will make profit on exchange-fees, withdraw-fees, and can buy and sell the shares on Crypto Rush the same way as coins and stocks.
> *How can I buy shares?*Shares can be bought using the market CryptoRushShares / Bitcoin (CRS / BTC), where you trade and place orders like any other coins.
> *How many shares are there?*The total amount of shares existing is 100,000,000 to signify 100%.
> *How do I make profits?*By holding CryptoRushShares (CRS) you will receive the % amount of shares that you hold paid directly to your account in BTC every week on Saturday between 6-8 PM EST. This calculation is done at the same time every week and is based on how many shares you hold at the given point of calculation.
> In addition to this, CRS can be traded and profits can be built like any other coins being traded.
> *How much will I get each week?*The amount you get is based on the amount of trade volume we get on the exchange throughout the week. You can easily calculate the minimum you get with the % you own based on our trading fees. Make sure to keep track of the daily volume from the homepage.

----------


## nayjevin

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...t-has-arrived/




> On Wednesday morning, Perseus Telecom and Atlas jointly launched their new high-speed trading platform for Bitcoin and likely other cryptocurrencies in the future. Perseus is a firm that specializes in high-speed financial data networks, while Atlas is a relative newcomer to the Wall Street scene since starting in 2013.
> 
> The platform's debut puts Bitcoin trading much closer to the modern world of automated and secure trading. Atlas deals will have a matching speed of 30 millionths of a second. Modern trading firms colocate their systems as physically close to the “matching engines” as possible as a way to gain a few milliseconds of edge over others.

----------


## presence



----------


## lotsOfCake

Looking for "temporarily overbought" signs on the way up, but failing. :-D
Haven't lost any potential gains on it so far though.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Ha, everyones setups look so nice compared to mine, one of my miners with 3 7850's (3 x 400 kh/s), has the video cards suspended in the air with FISHING LINE. HEHE. You guys just aren't getting ghetto enough.  I have the fishing line routed through the fan that rests on stacks of canned goods. So, the cards are like hanging from the fan itself. 

Come on people, the fun is the insanity!!!

----------


## presence

http://imgur.com/e217dAv,OBEKKbZ,yEy...mtE7,sVQrrfa#0




> APMEX - $2 over spot Silver Bullet - $5 over spot
> 2012 Silver Eagle - $5 over spot
> 2000 Silver Eagle - $10+ over spot
> Army Coin - $30+
> [10:28:01 PM] Simran Singh: Got them priced for me by a friend who buys 1000's oz of coins
> [10:40:15 PM] Simran Singh: I'm not interested in selling the Army coin really
> [10:40:27 PM] Simran Singh: Everything else, good to go



Talk to Simran

----------


## lotsOfCake

Here we go!

(Some of the previous ltcbtc spikes had a traceback then another bigger spike, though... hm :-D )

----------


## KCIndy

> Here we go!
> 
> (Some of the previous ltcbtc spikes had a traceback then another bigger spike, though... hm :-D )




FLY, BABY, FLY!!!

----------


## presence

COUNTDOWN 

TO LTC HUOBI
 MOON LANDING

----------


## muh_roads

pres, how popular is litepresence in other places like the trollbox?  If you're telling everyone 042, I wonder if RPF members should start exiting around 035-04?

----------


## presence

1220.41 - 570.35 (2011.45 - x)^0.267 *( 1 + 0.036 cos(15.86 ln(2011.45 - x) - 34.8))

on the subject of: "log periodic sornette" google that ^^^  

I'll be working to create log periodics of future bubbles as I come to appreciate the function a little better


equation adapted from:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1012.4118




> Log-Periodic Oscillation Analysis andPossible Burst of the “Gold Bubble”
> in April – June 2011
> Tsirel, Sergey V., VNIMI, St. Petersburg, Russia
> Akaev, Askar, “Complex System Analysis and Mathematical Modeling of the World Dynamics”
> Project, Russian Academy of Sciences
> Fomin, Alexey, “Complex System Analysis and Mathematical Modeling of the World Dynamics”
> Project, Russian Academy of Sciences
> Korotayev, Andrey V., Russian State University for the Humanities, Moscow and “Complex
> System Analysis and Mathematical Modeling of the World Dynamics” Project, Russian Academy
> ...


You can see here they weren't too far off:

http://www.infomine.com/investment/m...s/gold/5-year/





very rough approximation scaled to LTCBTC

----------


## presence

> pres, how popular is litepresence in other places like the trollbox?  If you're telling everyone 042, I wonder if RPF members should start exiting around 035-04?


I hear my username gets thrown around here and there:

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Ron Paul Coin looks dead in the water.  Down to 58 cents.  Called it.

----------


## presence

> Ron Paul Coin looks dead in the water.  Down to 58 cents.  Called it.


Would have been a sweet little coin if it was distributed amongst members of RPF like AUR

----------


## presence

> ADMIN: Please let your contacts that use *btc-e* know that they will need to use Chrome or Safari for the time being.  MS IE & Firefox Certificate Errors.Everything is fine and is being attended to by the devs.


..



eta:





> admin: Update certificate - done

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ..


Good thing I use Chrome.

----------


## presence

via btce trollbox:




> litepresence: admin, cryptorush is now offering "shares" on their exchange platform of their trading fees. Thoughts?





> btczen*:* *litepresence, its in the works i think 
> *admin*:* *litepresence, maybe*


..

----------


## Simran

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...nd-Bars-Ingots

Got a couple silver ingots and coins for sale ^^^

Presense told me to post here :P

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Pres, any revisions to the top considering Huobi bump in 2.5 hours?

----------


## muh_roads

Huobi goes live in less than an hour.  Does anyone like roulette?   Pick your color.  Red or Black.

It's either going to be a buying frenzy or a major sell off.  Who is excited?  Who is scared?

Crazy times incoming.  This is what we've been waiting for.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Huobi goes live in less than an hour.  Does anyone like roulette?   Pick your color.  Red or Black.
> 
> It's either going to be a buying frenzy or a major sell off.  Who is excited?  Who is scared?
> 
> Crazy times incoming.  This is what we've been waiting for.


Exchanges adding currencies has historically been good for it, but we'll see.  I don't think it's done yet.

----------


## muh_roads

The volume on okcoin right now is nuts.  Looks like a bear trap to me.

7 minutes to go.

----------


## amonasro

Ugh. I have no idea what it's going to do. Regardless I'll probably hold onto my LTC for awhile.

----------


## muh_roads

It's open.  I think they're buying.  Need a chart.  It's not on btc wisdom.

----------


## amonasro

The trollbox is melting down.

----------


## muh_roads

CNY breaking 122

----------


## muh_roads

Got to 123 then dropped to 117, now up to 119.  Down to 115.  Up to 118.

Christ candlewicks stretching everywhere...lol  That is quite a tug of war.  People want it as much as people panic selling.

The want is stronger, it feels like.

----------


## muh_roads

...or maybe not...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

That was disappointing.  I'll take my 2 BTC profit and wait for another opportunity.

I've learned that whenever I expect something to happen, it's usually disappointing.  It's the ones you don't expect that turn out huge.

----------


## Dianne

> That was disappointing.  I'll take my 2 BTC profit and wait for another opportunity.
> 
> I've learned that whenever I expect something to happen, it's usually disappointing.  It's the ones you don't expect that turn out huge.


2 BTC profit is pretty good !!

----------


## lotsOfCake

So I noticed that there was this effect;
1: New altcoin added on small exchange
2: There are rumors of it being added to a larger exchange
3: Around when it gets added, the price spikes
4: Price drops, stabilizes afterwards
..
Seems similar to now that huobi added ltc - it spiked around when it got added then dropped. Wonder what's next.

That said, hashing power of ltc is going up as the new asics are getting into it. Which increases the security of the network and hence the value of the coin as a means of exchange. 

Also when looking at historical data, it may sound strange, but it looks more like the news follows the price, not the other way around....

Full disclosure: I sold 5% ish of my ltc in a spread above 0.03 and bought back with half below 0.03, rest put in to get a few more % of nmc. 70% ish in ltc at the moment. The rest is in risky altcoins other places, and nmc. 

Eyes open for LTC in the news 

Edit:
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
the blue line in the first graph - litecoin difficulty is going up

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 2 BTC profit is pretty good !!


I know, but it could've been more.  I guess nothing really turns out as you plan it, so I can't complain.

----------


## muh_roads

> I know, but it could've been more.  I guess nothing really turns out as you plan it, so I can't complain.


What was your entry & exit points?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What was your entry & exit points?


In at .02539, and out after the crash at about .03

----------


## muh_roads

> In at .02539, and out after the crash at about .03


You must've been playing with a lot of LTC.  2 BTC of pure profit is nice.  Thought I read you only had 0.25 btc somewhere.  I must've read something wrong.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You must've been playing with a lot of LTC.  2 BTC of pure profit is nice.  Thought I read you only had 0.25 btc somewhere.  I must've read something wrong.


Well, I did lose a little bit before I gained it, so basically just recouping losses.  And no, I have quite a bit more than .25.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Just speculating here, but in retrospect, it seems like it makes sense when looking at the chart, that LTC would fall short of .035.  If we are to look at where it was before the last bubble, then it isn't anywhere near consolidating, so it makes sense that this bubble would be brief and rather small, unless you believe that LTC is actually better than BTC, which I don't.

----------


## nayjevin

Haven't been following the latest mood swings in particular but seems to me the speculation driving the market is very short sighted.  I see no reason litecoin wouldn't have the same long term staying power of bitcoin, even if that is zero.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Haven't been following the latest mood swings in particular but seems to me the speculation driving the market is very short sighted.  I see no reason litecoin wouldn't have the same long term staying power of bitcoin, even if that is zero.


The primary reason is that bitcoin has already been more or less widely (widely being the operative word) adopted in society, whereas litecoin is not widely adopted at all.  It also does not offer enough unique advantages over bitcoin in order to make it a superior form of currency.  When choosing between two basically equal currencies as time goes on, society will favor the one with more infrastructure in society, bitcoin.  There is simply no good reason or motivation for people to adopt litecoin when we already have bitcoin infrastructure.  Litecoin's value is being held up mainly by speculation and a few residual believers that think it will eventually overtake bitcoin for reasons they deem adequate.

----------


## nayjevin

> The primary reason is that bitcoin has already been more or less widely (widely being the operative word) adopted in society, whereas litecoin is not widely adopted at all.  It also does not offer enough unique advantages over bitcoin in order to make it a superior form of currency.  When choosing between two basically equal currencies as time goes on, society will favor the one with more infrastructure in society, bitcoin.  There is simply no good reason or motivation for people to adopt litecoin when we already have bitcoin infrastructure.  Litecoin's value is being held up mainly by speculation and a few residual believers that think it will eventually overtake bitcoin for reasons they deem adequate.


That makes sense, thanks.  I was sort of viewing it as inevitable that if bitcoin is accepted widely, litecoin will be the other viable option.  Greater supply meaning psychologically more affordable seeming investment and increased ability to facilitate trade.  Is it possible that a substantial portion of the market will accept bitcoin but not litecoin?  It never occurred to me that a retailer might do that.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That makes sense, thanks.  I was sort of viewing it as inevitable that if bitcoin is accepted widely, litecoin will be the other viable option.  Greater supply meaning psychologically more affordable seeming investment and increased ability to facilitate trade.  Is it possible that a substantial portion of the market will accept bitcoin but not litecoin?  It never occurred to me that a retailer might do that.


It could happen that way.  I wouldn't completely dismiss that possibility, but it depends on if people think bitcoin can be useful for all forms of transactions.  If that is the case, then litecoin will be seen as unnecessary and will fade from public use as the speculators begin to see the writing on the wall.  In fact, I see it as likely that a substantial portion of the market will accept bitcoin but not litecoin because bitcoin would be all they would need to accept if litecoin were to fade away, which I think will happen, eventually.  It may take awhile, but it really depends on how far bitcoin itself progresses since it is the trailblazer.

----------


## muh_roads

I wonder if pres is using his bots...

----------


## presence

> I wonder if pres is using his bots...



For the exit last night yes... my bot dumped me (small beans) out at $19 and my big beans friend was running two offset instances:   




> 2014-03-19 01:25 Setting the tick offset to 17 min.
> 2014-03-19 01:25 Trader initialized successfully. Starting balance: 3200 LTC 0 USD
> 2014-03-19 01:43 Currency: $0/66000.61 Assets: 3200/3200
> 2014-03-19 01:43 E0: 1 E1: 3 E2: 0.598 E3: 0.413 E4: 0.957
> 2014-03-19 02:13 Currency: $0/64474.87 Assets: 3200/3200
> 2014-03-19 02:13 E0: 0 E1: 0 E2: 0.026 E3: 0.858 E4: 0.424
> 2014-03-19 02:43 Currency: $0/62664.96 Assets: 3200/3200
> 2014-03-19 02:43 E0: 1 E1: 8 E2: 0.953 E3: 0.466 E4: 0.813
> 2014-03-19 03:13 Currency: $0/61912.32 Assets: 3200/3200
> ...




58582 + 58744 = 117,326 / 6400 = 18.33 average exit 




manual buy in
117362 / 16.95 (average) = 6923


6923 - (3200+3200) = 


523 LTC profit 

hows that for cool beans?



I am not leaving my bot running live however... I will turn it on after MA 95x135 cross on 1d again in about 30 days  (they're currently crossing right now)  I have no backtest data for this phase of the bubble.    What I did know was the bot was pretty good at selling off the peak.   Closer to 20 would have been nice... but 100k dump @ 18.33 average works too 



eta:

shortcut link

http://pastebin.com/xNjp60pB

----------


## nayjevin

> For the exit last night yes... my bot dumped me (small beans) out at $19 and my big beans friend was running two offset instances:   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 58582 + 58744 = 117,326 / 6400 = 18.33 average exit 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally confused.  So the bot works in the bear part of the bubble now?

----------


## amonasro

> Totally confused.  So the bot works in the bear part of the bubble now?


Last night was a "buy the rumor sell the news" type situation so it simulated a large exponential run-up except on a smaller scale. Looks like the bot did pretty well. Can't wait to try it out (sent you an email about it, btw pres).

----------


## presence

> Last night was a "buy the rumor sell the news" type situation so it simulated a large exponential run-up except on a smaller scale. Looks like the bot did pretty well. Can't wait to try it out (sent you an email about it, btw pres).


^^yep

So this past 72 hours was a large bullish spike at the end of an otherwise bear  market... so once we were well up into the spike we initialed the bot live for testing purposes... each with about 20% of our bank.  The goal was "let it make the sale while we sleep and turn it off in the morning".  It was a risky proposition because its largely untested in this market and we had 6 figures riding.  The drop was very sudden... so a lot was left on the table at the peak... but nonetheless... the bot dumped and dumped well without continuing to push the price down at the mid 18's.  This left us in good position to re acquire manually 24 hours later.

----------


## presence

On "initialzing your dragon slayer"

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Pres, how do I know which MAs I'm looking at on bitcoinwisdom?

----------


## muh_roads

> For the exit last night yes... my bot dumped me (small beans) out at $19 and my big beans friend was running two offset instances:   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 58582 + 58744 = 117,326 / 6400 = 18.33 average exit 
> 
> 
> ...


Two accounts with 3200 LTC each...that's a lot.  260 ltc gain for each account.  Nice.

----------


## muh_roads

So now is still a good time to accumulate.  We reach marker A in 30 days or so is your guess?

----------


## Suzu

Does anyone have a clue whether bitcoin will be going up in value anytime soon? Seems like lately it's been going down consistently.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Does anyone have a clue whether bitcoin will be going up in value anytime soon? Seems like lately it's been going down consistently.


Are you holding any?

----------


## presence

*IN TODAY's CRYPTO CURRENCY NEWS
*




*
Hong Kong Betting Big On Bitcoin
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/in-hong-kong-betting-big-on-bitcoin/

Bitcoin Gets Security Fixes and New Features
http://www.pcworld.com/article/21102...-features.html

Altcoins - Brave New World Beyond Bitcoin
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-...eyond-bitcoin/

Fortress, Benchmark and Ribbit Buy Stake in Pantera Bitcoin
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/...ntera-bitcoin/

Facebook Security Director, Amazon BD Director Join Bitcoin Startup Coinbase
http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/19/fac...rtup-coinbase/

SEC inquiry in Bitcoin Gambling Stocks
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...c-inquiry.html

Slate Magazine talks IRS and Bitcoins
http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_...ax_return.html

SecondMarket will open Private Bitcoin Fund
http://www.coindesk.com/secondmarket...und-investors/

3 Celebs Jumping on the Bitcoin Bandwagon (and One Who Says She's an 'Idiot' for Missing It)
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/232359

$500,000 in Bitcoin Just Bought Someone a Villa in Bali
http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet...la-bali-n57211

Potential Return for Bitcoin Is Huge: Miller
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/poten...s4FjaFxRw.html

Lawmakers think Japan should be Bitcoin Leader
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2...itcoin-leader/

My business accepts Bitcoins By Parija Kavilanz  @CNNMoney 
http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/17/smal...itcoin-bitpay/

CNBC: Warren Buffett is wrong on bitcoin
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101504218

Treasury’s Cohen Sees No Widespread Criminal Bitcoin Use
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...urrencies.html

Business Times - Enter the bitcoin
http://www.nst.com.my/business/today...tcoin-1.523830

York Revolution to start accepting Bitcoin for ticket purchases
http://www.ydr.com/revolution/ci_253...cket-purchases

Bitcoin remains popular abroad
http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf...ar_abroad.html

Bitcoin Payments Startup Coin.ph Launches with Two Major Filipino Merchants
http://www.coindesk.com/asia-bitcoin...ino-merchants/

Streamin’ Garage Announces World’s First Bitcoin Game Show
http://www.coindesk.com/streamin-gar...oin-game-show/

Bitcoin Hedge Fund Partnership Shows Interest from Pro Investors Rising
http://moneymorning.com/2014/03/19/b...estors-rising/

2nd local bitcoin ATM put in Harvard Square
2nd local bitcoin ATM put in Harvard Square


Bitcoin Exchange Blames Data Center Provider for $100,000 Theft
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/a...-100000-theft/

Bitcoin Gains Ballast As Investors Continue To Pile In
http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/18/bit...ue-to-pile-in/

Gold vs. bitcoin: An apocalyptic showdown
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/03/19/gold-bitcoin/

The Bitcoin Bugle: Mike Novogratz Still Thinks Bitcoin Is Great
http://dealbreaker.com/2014/03/the-b...coin-is-great/

Bank troubles boost bitcoin utility, say marketers
http://cyprus-mail.com/2014/03/20/ba...say-marketers/

African banks should innovate around Bitcoin – Kipochi
http://www.humanipo.com/news/41445/a...tcoin-kipochi/

BitBeat: Bitcoin Gets Shakespearean
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/...shakespearean/

A Guy Who Owns A Bitcoin-Only Electronics Store Is Revealing Everything On Reddit
http://www.businessinsider.com/e-com...bitcoin-2014-3

Space on Columbia’s Main Street can be rented for Bitcoin
http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/18/3...in-street.html

Guest article: Must-know facts about bitcoin
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/t...w/32141564.cms

International Business Times Cryptocurrency News Round-Up:  Bitcoin Denial
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cryptocurrency-news-round-spaincoin-soars-auroracoin-drops-dogecoin-tweet-bitcoin-denial-1440615

Bitcoin: Silicon Valley's new version of real estate?
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/...f-real-estate/


Underground Vault Offers Bitcoin Protection With Armed Guards, Biometric Scanners
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...tric-scanners/


BitBeat: KnCMiner Flips the Scrypt;
 Sells $2 MILLION of New Mining Rigs in FOUR HOURS
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/...in-four-hours/

California’s First Bitcoin ATM To Be Installed Tomorrow
http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/03/cal...t-bitcoin-atm/

Regulators don’t want to regulate bitcoin, says BitPay’s Gallippi
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...161753454.html


Fortune: A Gold vs. Bitcoin Smackdown Could Be a Tie
http://www.moneynews.com/investingan.../19/id/560532/

Mt. Gox Lets Users Log In to Check Bitcoin Balance
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/mark...balance-n55696


Institutional Investors: SURPRISE! You're holding Bitcoin!
http://www.pionline.com/article/2014...utm_medium=rss

Investment in Bitcoin startups hit USD117.5m
https://www.asia-first.com/newslette...usd117.5m.html

Bitcoin Turmoil Hasn't Turned Off Venture Capital Tap
http://blogs.ft.com/tech-blog/2014/0...nvestment-tap/

Bitcoins may be bartered, but they’re not money
http://www.abqjournal.com/371415

Minimum Bitcoin Fees slashed 10X
http://www.forexnews.com/blog/2014/0...ashed-tenfold/*

----------


## presence

> Pres, how do I know which MAs I'm looking at on bitcoinwisdom?



*SETTINGS >> INDICATOR PARAMETERS*

----------


## presence

> So now is still a good time to accumulate.  We reach marker A in 30 days or so is your guess?



30 DAYS is a good estimate... but look for the right shoulder resistance and 45x135 1d cross for your confirmation.

----------


## presence

> Does anyone have a clue whether bitcoin will be going up in value anytime soon? Seems like lately it's been going down consistently.



Yes I'm quite bullish looking into April, May and June.  Have a look through the charts posted above.

----------


## Suzu

> Yes I'm quite bullish looking into April, May and June.  Have a look through the charts posted above.


I couldn't understand any of those charts if my life depended on it. (Please save your time trying to explain them to me -- I just don't have the head for it.)

All I wanted to know is what y'all think will be happening with the price of bitcoin in the near term. I don't even understand "bullish".

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I couldn't understand any of those charts if my life depended on it. (Please save your time trying to explain them to me -- I just don't have the head for it.)
> 
> All I wanted to know is what y'all think will be happening with the price of bitcoin in the near term. I don't even understand "bullish".


If you're holding bitcoin right now, suffice it to say just keep holding a few months and I think you'll like what you see.

----------


## muh_roads

> 30 DAYS is a good estimate... but look for the right shoulder resistance and 45x135 1d cross for your confirmation.


I don't think it is unreasonable to assume we could keep dropping to 024 as a new floor before she starts moving again.

What are your thoughts?

----------


## muh_roads

Any thoughts on PPC?  It's really cheap right now.

----------


## presence

> Any thoughts on PPC?  It's really cheap right now.



Yes, agreed. 2.7 is a great price for ppc even if you just take it short to 2.9

----------


## xPario

Hey guys, I've been lurking here for a while and decided to finally create an account and post a little.
Anyways, I bought BTC back in the November bubble, invested ~$10k usd and lost ~$7k. The loss is no problem because I've learned alot and I'm hoping to get atleast half of it back in this next bubble, whenever (or if) it comes. I bought back in (LTC) a few days ago at around $16.8 and then sold incrementally from $17.5-$18.5 with the whole Huobi news thing. I set my sell orders overnight, and when I woke up they had all filled (yay!). Since I'm homeschooling I sit at the computer alot so I always have a tab open with bitcoinwisdoms LTC/USD chart. When I saw it was going back up and the volume looked ok, I thought "what the hell, why not buy back in!"... So I bought back in at about $19.2 and WHOOOP down it went. So what I'm wondering is, what exactly is the best strategy for this kind of trading? As there are obviously a group of people controlling the entire market during these non-"hype" periods, what should I do? Just set sell orders at 0.038/0.04/0.041/0.042, accept my loses and invest in real stock, or are there any sites that have information on market trends and stock trading that are easy to understand and are written in the same format as the "for dummy" series? I've picked up a little from all the posts in here but it's not really something that is learnt overnight.

Sorry for the wall of text but I'm just a little torn on what to do.

----------


## presence

> I don't think it is unreasonable to assume we could keep dropping to 024 as a new floor before she starts moving again.
> 
> What are your thoughts?



LTCBTC 4h MA 400 was resistance, it is now support;  MA 800 4h just turned hard up and now is rising steady; supporting.

I'm in LTC I essentially held through the whole "thing" this past 3 days except for the 20% I had riding on my bot (sold 19); which I've bought back in with already @ 17.

I'm looking for 26.5 or 0420 or bust.

We took too much too fast and it didn't last; but we're still supported and rising.  

0240 is a risky proposition; I'm holding.

----------


## muh_roads

> LTCBTC 4h MA 400 was resistance, it is now support;  MA 800 4h just turned hard up and now is rising steady; supporting.
> 
> I'm in LTC I essentially held through the whole "thing" this past 3 days except for the 20% I had riding on my bot (sold 19); which I've bought back in with already @ 17.
> 
> I'm looking for 26.5 or 0420 or bust.
> 
> We took too much too fast and it didn't last; but we're still supported and rising.  
> 
> 0240 is a risky proposition; I'm holding.


Do you think it is a false sense of support because the BTC price has dropped?  Keeping the LTC/BTC ratio high?

Thanks for the input.  Still can't wrap my head around MA completely.

----------


## presence

> Hey guys, I've been lurking here for a while and decided to finally create an account and post a little.
> Anyways, I bought BTC back in the November bubble, invested ~$10k usd and lost ~$7k. The loss is no problem because I've learned alot and I'm hoping to get atleast half of it back in this next bubble, whenever (or if) it comes. I bought back in (LTC) a few days ago at around $16.8 and then sold incrementally from $17.5-$18.5 with the whole Huobi news thing. I set my sell orders overnight, and when I woke up they had all filled (yay!). Since I'm homeschooling I sit at the computer alot so I always have a tab open with bitcoinwisdoms LTC/USD chart. When I saw it was going back up and the volume looked ok, I thought "what the hell, why not buy back in!"... So I bought back in at about $19.2 and WHOOOP down it went. So what I'm wondering is, what exactly is the best strategy for this kind of trading? As there are obviously a group of people controlling the entire market during these non-"hype" periods, what should I do? Just set sell orders at 0.038/0.04/0.041/0.042, accept my loses and invest in real stock, or are there any sites that have information on market trends and stock trading that are easy to understand and are written in the same format as the "for dummy" series? I've picked up a little from all the posts in here but it's not really something that is learnt overnight.
> 
> Sorry for the wall of text but I'm just a little torn on what to do.




Learn and Trade the 3d log scale chart with RSI 1st.   Look at MtGox and Stamp for older data.  Don' try to day trade until you have a firm grasp on 3d log scale and the images on the first post of this thread.

best of luck!

----------


## XTreat

> Hey guys, I've been lurking here for a while and decided to finally create an account and post a little.
> Anyways, I bought BTC back in the November bubble, invested ~$10k usd and lost ~$7k. The loss is no problem because I've learned alot and I'm hoping to get atleast half of it back in this next bubble, whenever (or if) it comes. I bought back in (LTC) a few days ago at around $16.8 and then sold incrementally from $17.5-$18.5 with the whole Huobi news thing. I set my sell orders overnight, and when I woke up they had all filled (yay!). Since I'm homeschooling I sit at the computer alot so I always have a tab open with bitcoinwisdoms LTC/USD chart. When I saw it was going back up and the volume looked ok, I thought "what the hell, why not buy back in!"... So I bought back in at about $19.2 and WHOOOP down it went. So what I'm wondering is, what exactly is the best strategy for this kind of trading? As there are obviously a group of people controlling the entire market during these non-"hype" periods, what should I do? Just set sell orders at 0.038/0.04/0.041/0.042, accept my loses and invest in real stock, or are there any sites that have information on market trends and stock trading that are easy to understand and are written in the same format as the "for dummy" series? I've picked up a little from all the posts in here but it's not really something that is learnt overnight.
> 
> Sorry for the wall of text but I'm just a little torn on what to do.



Read this whole thread and you will know everything I know.

----------


## presence

> Do you think it is a false sense of support because the BTC price has dropped?  Keeping the LTC/BTC ratio high?
> 
> Thanks for the input.  Still can't wrap my head around MA completely.


Burn figures 1&2 into your retinas; stare until it clicks:

http://www.investopedia.com/universi...gaverages1.asp



I think LTCBTC is still rising.  My 0420 ceiling may have been far reaching... but I expect 03600 still before we begin our decline into the next bubble.

----------


## xPario

> Do you think it is a false sense of support because the BTC price has dropped?  Keeping the LTC/BTC ratio high?
> 
> Thanks for the input.  Still can't wrap my head around MA completely.


A moving average (MA) is a line that is drawn across a set of points on a chart. Each point is the sum of x previous candles divided by x. If you set the MA to 5, each point that the line goes through will be the average of the last five candles.
The reason it's called a moving average instead of just an average, is because for each new candle the value will change and the line that goes through all the points will move.


This is basically a simplified version of the link that presence posted.

----------


## muh_roads

> Hey guys, I've been lurking here for a while and decided to finally create an account and post a little.
> Anyways, I bought BTC back in the November bubble, invested ~$10k usd and lost ~$7k. The loss is no problem because I've learned alot and I'm hoping to get atleast half of it back in this next bubble, whenever (or if) it comes. I bought back in (LTC) a few days ago at around $16.8 and then sold incrementally from $17.5-$18.5 with the whole Huobi news thing. I set my sell orders overnight, and when I woke up they had all filled (yay!). Since I'm homeschooling I sit at the computer alot so I always have a tab open with bitcoinwisdoms LTC/USD chart. When I saw it was going back up and the volume looked ok, I thought "what the hell, why not buy back in!"... So I bought back in at about $19.2 and WHOOOP down it went. So what I'm wondering is, what exactly is the best strategy for this kind of trading? As there are obviously a group of people controlling the entire market during these non-"hype" periods, what should I do? Just set sell orders at 0.038/0.04/0.041/0.042, accept my loses and invest in real stock, or are there any sites that have information on market trends and stock trading that are easy to understand and are written in the same format as the "for dummy" series? I've picked up a little from all the posts in here but it's not really something that is learnt overnight.
> 
> Sorry for the wall of text but I'm just a little torn on what to do.


We have to learn to not be greedy.  I have a problem not following through on that advice even for myself.

You handled that well on the way up initially.  I took pres' advice of 042 but I was incorrectly predicting that would happen short-term.  I really should have sold when it streaked up so high to 034 the night waiting for Huobi to open.  That was a "pump the story, sell the news" situation as someone else said regarding the Chinese exchanges opening.  The timing was also terrible for me as I was on the road and didn't get home until late that night.

Originally my plan was to sell @ 027, 030, 032.  Instead I played the wrong Roulette color and bought some at 031.  I did get the 021 thru 025 stuff out.  Still debating if I want to take 026-027 off the table or add to it.  Getting greedy is a bitch.

Long-term, I think you'll recover your $7K just fine and then some.  I personally can't think of a better investment right now other than medical cannabis grower and supplier stocks.

BTC is deflationary by design.  And there is enough rotting $#@! central banker debt money out there to fill a top 5-10 Crypto's in the future.

----------


## presence

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/stylish/ 


https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stylish/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe?hl=en

----------


## muh_roads

> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scriptish/
> 
> +
> 
> 
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stylish/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe?hl=en
> 
> =


I always wanted to see greasemonkey in action but it felt broken and $#@!ty and I couldn't get a script working.

This sounds like they took greasemonkey and made it work the way it is supposed to.

Guess I have to install the NSA's Chrome.  How does an FF plugin combine with Google's browser $#@!?

----------


## muh_roads

> A moving average (MA) is a line that is drawn across a set of points on a chart. Each point is the sum of x previous candles divided by x. If you set the MA to 5, each point that the line goes through will be the average of the last five candles.
> The reason it's called a moving average instead of just an average, is because for each new candle the value will change and the line that goes through all the points will move.
> 
> 
> This is basically a simplified version of the link that presence posted.


I'll play with the indicator parameters that PaulWV asked about.  Thanks for the cliffs-notes.  I can only read so much.  My day job for fiat slavecoins keeps me distracted from learning more about swing-trading.

Also, welcome to the BTC Board.

----------


## amonasro

> Hey guys, I've been lurking here for a while and decided to finally create an account and post a little.
> 
> ...
> 
> Sorry for the wall of text but I'm just a little torn on what to do.





> We have to learn to not be greedy.  I have a problem not following through on that advice even for myself.


I'm also finding out that trading requires quite a lot of self-discipline of one's own emotions. When I bought in before (and during) the April run-up I was like a giddy kid, thinking the world was going to end if I didn't turn every extra dollar I had into bitcoins before the price went to infinity. During the subsequent correction I was confused and disappointed. Then there was the November craziness that had me nearly dancing in the street. The December crash was worse--I recall sitting on my couch, sweating bullets and hearing my heart bursting out of my chest, and the fudsters on the forum weren't helping much. I nearly sold at the bottom but I shut the laptop instead, made a drink and turned on the TV. The next day, the price corrected as usual. This was when I realized I needed a thicker skin if I was going to play this game. 

I always think about the Warren Buffet quote: "Be fearful when others are greedy; be greedy when others are fearful." This is totally true and has saved my ass on a number of occasions. I would also like to add my own variation: "Don't feel greed when the market moves up; don't fear loss when the market moves down." You must distance yourself emotionally from your trading or you'll make irrational decisions. Now, after two crypto bubbles I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of it, sort of. xPario, my advice is to you is to *take your time*, learn the market patterns and study up on technical analysis. Crytpcurrencies are a dense topic, and trading cryptos without knowing how these markets work is like jumping into a pool of sharks... sharks with lasers attached to their forehead. Good luck!

----------


## xPario

> We have to learn to not be greedy. I have a problem not following through on that advice even for myself.
> 
> You handled that well on the way up initially. I took pres' advice of 042 but I was incorrectly predicting that would happen short-term. I really should have sold when it streaked up so high to 034 the night waiting for Huobi to open. That was a "pump the story, sell the news" situation as someone else said regarding the Chinese exchanges opening. The timing was also terrible for me as I was on the road and didn't get home until late that night.


Yeah one of the first things I read after I decided to start trading was to make a system and stick to it. Buuuut my emotions got in the way a few too many times, lol. Damn the BTC-E app on my phone. Anyway, I've learned alot and I hope to be able to apply the things I've learned later in life.




> I always think about the Warren Buffet quote: "Be fearful when others are greedy; be greedy when others are fearful." This is totally true and has saved my ass on a number of occasions. I would also like to add my own variation: "Don't feel greed when the market moves up; don't fear loss when the market moves down." You must distance yourself emotionally from your trading or you'll make irrational decisions. Now, after two crypto bubbles I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of it, sort of. xPario, my advice is to you is to *take your time*, learn the market patterns and study up on technical analysis. Crytpcurrencies are a dense topic, and trading cryptos without knowing how these markets work is like jumping into a pool of sharks... sharks with lasers attached to their forehead. Good luck!


My dad used to daytrade back in the 90's during the whole dotcom bubble, he lost alot of money when it all fell apart, and I'm going to (try) to not make the same mistakes. Today he only does long term investments with market leading companies, and has been extremely skeptical and warned me quite a few times about bitcoin investment. I do understand the risks, which is why I'm reading as much as I can about trading in general before I start trying to predict the market. For now I just have a bot trading, saves me the headache of staring at a chart that I somewhat understand but can in no way safely predict.

Thanks for replying guys, I feel alot safer taking advice here than in the trollbox lol (no I don't take their advice, ever).

----------


## nayjevin

> Burn figures 1&2 into your retinas; stare until it clicks:
> 
> http://www.investopedia.com/universi...gaverages1.asp
> 
> 
> 
> I think LTCBTC is still rising.  My 0420 ceiling may have been far reaching... but I expect 03600 still before we begin our decline into the next bubble.


When you ran slayer to offload the interim peak, how did you choose when to start it?  I'm not seeing how the average person could choose a sensible point.  When you begin running it, does it need time to initialize?

----------


## nayjevin

> On "initialzing your dragon slayer"


Quoting for reference

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm a bit confused at what's happening with BTC.  I didn't expect it to go back down this low.

----------


## xPario

> I'm a bit confused at what's happening with BTC.  I didn't expect it to go back down this low.


Someone dumped a few thousand BTC on Huobi, it'll bounce back.

EDIT: And a couple hundred thousand LTC aswell, price went to 1 yen lol. Lucky $#@!ers that had orders down there.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Someone dumped a few thousand BTC on Huobi, it'll bounce back.
> 
> EDIT: And a couple hundred thousand LTC aswell, price went to 1 yen lol. Lucky $#@!ers that had orders down there.


Wow, that is huge.  I wonder who that could have been?  An early adopter losing faith or some rich guy who mistakenly invested millions of dollars in cryptocurrencies?  

What a strange thing to do...

----------


## presence

> I'm a bit confused at what's happening with BTC. I didn't expect it to go back down this low.



http://finance.sina.com.cn/china/jrxw/20140321/205818580267.shtml




> 新浪财经讯 3月21日晚间消息，针对有关央行[微博]在3月18日发文要求4月15日前停止一切比特币交易的报道，接近监管层的人士对新浪财经表示，央行确实下发文件，并非直接叫停比特币，而是加强比特币交易  、流通、兑付等环节的监管。
> 　　而多家比特币交易平台在与新浪科技连线时表示，未收到相关通知，现在交易系统一切正常。
> 　　从今日下午17时至19时两个小时中，比特币中国交易价格大幅下挫，从3691元大幅跌至3400元，  跌幅达到5%。
> 　　一位多年从事比特币交易的相关人士告诉新浪科技，虽然上述消息真假未知，但是已经迅速在比特币社区中造  成恐慌，不少交易者都准备抛售所持有的比特币，国内比特币价格可能将大幅下跌。
> 　　去年12月，央行曾针对比特币发出《关于防范比特币风险的通知》，认为比特币是一种特定的虚拟商品，不  具有与货币等同的法律地位，不能且不应作为货币在市场上流通使用。
> 　　央行当时要求，各金融机构和支付机构不得以比特币为产品或服务定价，不得买卖或作为中央对手买卖比特币  ，不得承保与比特币相关的保险业务或将比特币纳入保险责任范围，不得直接或间接为客户提供其他与比特币相关  的服务。
> 　　不过当时央行在通知中明确表示，比特币交易作为一种互联网上的商品买卖行为，普通民众在自担风险的前提  下，拥有参与的自由。因此业内人士判断，央行突然要求停止一切比特币交易的可能性不大。
> 
> *Sina Finance March 21 evening news*, for the relevant central bank [ microblogging ] at March 18 April 15 issued a document required to cease all reported Bitcoin transactions, person close to regulators said on Sina Finance , the central bank is indeed issued file , not directly halt bitcoin , but to strengthen supervision Bitcoin transactions , circulation, and other aspects of payment .
> ...







> 【“4月15日前停止一切比特币交易”为失实报道】有媒体报道称，“人民银行已于3月18日发文，要求4月  15日前停止一切比特币交易”为失实报道。人民银行对比特币的态度已在人民银行等五部委《关于防范比特币风  险的通知》中明确表述。
> 
> *" April 15 to stop all Bitcoin transactions " as untrue media reports said* , " the People's Bank has issued a document on March 18 , April 15 asked to stop all Bitcoin transactions " as untrue . Attitude of the People's Bank of Bitcoin has clearly expressed in the People's Bank and other five ministries "on the prevention of risk Bitcoin notice" .


http://www.weibo.com/u/3921015143#1395409424323



LTCCNY Huobi fell from over 100 yaun down to 1 yaun in the panic



http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/...ice-below-600/




> *Fake China Bitcoin ban pushes BTC price below $600*
> 
> _Christoph Marckx_
> _21/03/2014
> Altcoins, Announcements, Bitcoin, Bitcoin Exchanges, Bitcoin Regulation, News
> _
> 
> _Posted 7 mins ago 
> 
> ...







more at reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20zt28/the_official_weibo_of_chinese_central_back_says/




> I'm having a really hard time understanding the English version of that. Does anyone have a better idea of what it says?



A human translation follows from sinologue btce user:




> sunderstan
> 18:25 21.03.14
> 
> 
> Here's the full translation. Sorry for my crappy English as it's not my native language (Coz I'm from Hong Kong.). If there are any grammar mistakes just feel free to correct it before publishing 
> 
> About "The central bank issued documents on 18th Match, demanding to stop all Bitcoin Transactions" report, A person with a position which near Management told Sinanews: The Central Bank DO issue a document, stating it doesn't mean to stop Bitcoin directly, but to strengthen the Bitcoin's transaction management, in terms of trading, adoption and taxation.
> 
> Several Bitcoin trading platforms contacted the Sinanews, claiming that they didn't receive related notification. The trading system is running normally.
> ...

----------


## xPario

> Wow, that is huge.  I wonder who that could have been?  An early adopter losing faith or some rich guy who mistakenly invested millions of dollars in cryptocurrencies?  
> 
> What a strange thing to do...



He dumped for atleast $500k, maybe it was just a dude who wanted to get out while he's ahead? He probably sold half and is saving half, that's what I would do. $500k is a fortune in china.

----------


## presence

*Mt. Gox found 200,000 Bitcoin ($116 million) in an old wallet, should check its pockets*http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/20/m...usaolp00000589

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> http://finance.sina.com.cn/china/jrxw/20140321/205818580267.shtml


I'm having a really hard time understanding the English version of that.  Does anyone have a better idea of what it says?

----------


## presence

..

----------


## presence

http://cryptowat.ch/huobi/ltccny/15min/


new charting site w/ aroon osc and bbands

----------


## presence

As of March 13 2014,


BTC LONG DAILY RATE >>> 


New Liberty Standard October 9 2009 ; 1309.13BTC = 1USD ; 1 BTC = 0.000763924 USD ; 628.964/ 0.0007639 = 823,333.2111 ; 823,333.21X in past 1616 days ; 823,333.21 = x^1616 ; 

X = 1.00846453 ; 0.846% DAILY


Since "Pre Gox Bubble" Jan 1 2013 GOX 13.28; past 437 days 628.964/13.28 = 47.3617X  ; 47.3 = x^437 ;

x = 1.00886 ; 0.886% DAILY


Since "Pre China Bubble" August 1 2013 GOX 104.5; past 225 days 628.964/104.5 =  6.0188X ; 6.0188 = x^225 ;

x = 1.00801 ; 0.801% DAILY


**** 0.8% DAILY *****

1.008^365 = 

18.32x annually

= 

1832% APR



**DON'T* *102
**DO 
**1832!*

----------


## Dianne

> I'm also finding out that trading requires quite a lot of self-discipline of one's own emotions. When I bought in before (and during) the April run-up I was like a giddy kid, thinking the world was going to end if I didn't turn every extra dollar I had into bitcoins before the price went to infinity. During the subsequent correction I was confused and disappointed. Then there was the November craziness that had me nearly dancing in the street. The December crash was worse--I recall sitting on my couch, sweating bullets and hearing my heart bursting out of my chest, and the fudsters on the forum weren't helping much. I nearly sold at the bottom but I shut the laptop instead, made a drink and turned on the TV. The next day, the price corrected as usual. This was when I realized I needed a thicker skin if I was going to play this game. 
> 
> I always think about the Warren Buffet quote: "Be fearful when others are greedy; be greedy when others are fearful." This is totally true and has saved my ass on a number of occasions. I would also like to add my own variation: "Don't feel greed when the market moves up; don't fear loss when the market moves down." You must distance yourself emotionally from your trading or you'll make irrational decisions. Now, after two crypto bubbles I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of it, sort of. xPario, my advice is to you is to *take your time*, learn the market patterns and study up on technical analysis. Crytpcurrencies are a dense topic, and trading cryptos without knowing how these markets work is like jumping into a pool of sharks... sharks with lasers attached to their forehead. Good luck!


I'm as guilty of that as anyone.   The day before the Huboi LTC addition, the train started running  and the troll box was yelling buy, buy, buy and I bought at $19.30 then got greedy and put my sell order in for 22.00.    It hit $21 something then crashed, now at $15.92 .      I could kick myself in the arse, but decided I will not sell at a loss.     I'll set sell order, and only look at btc-e once per day, maybe twice.    My self imposed punishment is that I cannot play the alt market until I sell my LTC at a slight profit, or break even at least.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm as guilty of that as anyone.   The day before the Huboi LTC addition, the train started running  and the troll box was yelling buy, buy, buy and I bought at $19.30 then got greedy and put my sell order in for 22.00.    It hit $21 something then crashed, now at $15.92 .      I could kick myself in the arse, but decided I will not sell at a loss.     I'll set sell order, and only look at btc-e once per day, maybe twice.    My self imposed punishment is that I cannot play the alt market until I sell my LTC at a slight profit, or break even at least.


I think you may be in luck yet.  What happened the other day may have merely been a precursor (buy on the rumor, sell on the news) to a larger rise.  Too much, too soon, but it doesn't look like it's done yet.

----------


## muh_roads

> As of March 13 2014,
> 
> 
> BTC LONG DAILY RATE >>> 
> 
> 
> New Liberty Standard October 9 2009 ; 1309.13BTC = 1USD ; 1 BTC = 0.000763924 USD ; 628.964/ 0.0007639 = 823,333.2111 ; 823,333.21X in past 1616 days ; 823,333.21 = x^1616 ; 
> 
> X = 1.00846453 ; 0.846% DAILY
> ...


haha, nice.

Someone needs to compare bank interest on a CD to BTC in an easy chart grandpa can understand.

----------


## Suzu

> Are you holding any?


Not me, but the cat shelter has very small amount. Way less than 1 BTC. I thought it might be wise to leave some of it (what was donated before) in the wallet because all the talk was about a new bubble forming, and the shelter is so desperate that every dollar of value really counts - especially right now. I thought, if it's gonna keep on going down, it might be best to cash it out now, before it becomes worthless.

----------


## nayjevin

> I'm as guilty of that as anyone.   The day before the Huboi LTC addition, the train started running  and the troll box was yelling buy, buy, buy and I bought at $19.30 then got greedy and put my sell order in for 22.00.    It hit $21 something then crashed, now at $15.92 .      I could kick myself in the arse, but decided I will not sell at a loss.     I'll set sell order, and only look at btc-e once per day, maybe twice.    My self imposed punishment is that I cannot play the alt market until I sell my LTC at a slight profit, or break even at least.


In a way I'd say that's good, not selling for a loss.  But it's also mixing strategies.  In my opinion, being a profitable trader requires adaptation and occasional stop loss.  If one plans to never sell at a loss, that's better than nothing, but a very large part of opportunity is missed.  Much less risk, much less reward.  I thought profits with such a conservative approach would still be worth not having coins in cold storage, now I'm not so sure.

If you're long on BTC and won't sell for a loss ever, at least consider securing your coins to the max and wait, instead of tying them up on an exchange, which is inevitable if you won't stop loss.  This wouldn't be true for sure if the above calculations don't hold, if Crypto flatlines from here forever or goes down, and wouldn't be true if there were no risk to having coin on an exchange.

Just holding crypto is a great return.  Not ever cutting losses while trading on an exchange can decrease potential for a better return by a lot.  Don't get greedy huh?  Where to draw the line?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Not me, but the cat shelter has very small amount. Way less than 1 BTC. I thought it might be wise to leave some of it (what was donated before) in the wallet because all the talk was about a new bubble forming, and the shelter is so desperate that every dollar of value really counts - especially right now. I thought, if it's gonna keep on going down, it might be best to cash it out now, before it becomes worthless.


No, as far as we're concerned, it's right on schedule and trust me, it's not going to be worthless.  It goes up and it goes down, but it goes up more than it goes down, so don't lose hope.  Less than 1 BTC seems like a really small amount to me, but that could be worth a few thousand in a few months, who knows?  Definitely bullish right now (buy).

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> In a way I'd say that's good, not selling for a loss.  But it's also mixing strategies.  In my opinion, being a profitable trader requires adaptation and occasional stop loss.  If one plans to never sell at a loss, that's better than nothing, but a very large part of opportunity is missed.  Much less risk, much less reward.  I thought profits with such a conservative approach would still be worth not having coins in cold storage, now I'm not so sure.
> 
> If you're long on BTC and won't sell for a loss ever, at least consider securing your coins to the max and wait, instead of tying them up on an exchange, which is inevitable if you won't stop loss.  This wouldn't be true for sure if the above calculations don't hold, if Crypto flatlines from here forever or goes down, and wouldn't be true if there were no risk to having coin on an exchange.


I had to stop loss a few weeks ago, but I've nearly made everything back already.  You definitely have to be careful, but I'm glad I stopped loss now because I would have been in something I didn't want to be in for a looong time at lower prices than I sold at.  I'm still technically at a loss in terms of BTC value, but I don't mind because I'm long on it and it hasn't even occurred to me to sell.

----------


## presence

Dragon Slayer upgrade released, minor changes, mostly related to logging

----------


## Suzu

> Definitely bullish right now (buy).


LOL... We only buy cat food and litter! And vet visits and flea treatments and cat beds and toys and 'nip and litter boxes and cat carriers and isolation crates and scratching posts and the list goes on. We never have anything whatsoever leftover to invest. Some folks donated using BTC earlier in the year, and we were cashing that out, but I left a little bit in the wallet hoping it would grow into more value.




> No, as far as we're concerned, it's right on schedule and trust me, it's not going to be worthless.  It goes up and it goes down, but it goes up more than it goes down, so don't lose hope.  Less than 1 BTC seems like a really small amount to me, but that could be worth a few thousand in a few months, who knows?


That was my thought in deciding to leave some in the wallet. Had we known about BTC in the early days when a mere $50 could have turned into a million virtually overnight, we'd never have had a money problem at the shelter again.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> LOL... We only buy cat food and litter! And vet visits and flea treatments and cat beds and toys and 'nip and litter boxes and cat carriers and isolation crates and scratching posts and the list goes on. We never have anything whatsoever leftover to invest. Some folks donated using BTC earlier in the year, and we were cashing that out, but I left a little bit in the wallet hoping it would grow into more value.
> 
> 
> That was my thought in deciding to leave some in the wallet. Had we known about BTC in the early days when a mere $50 could have turned into a million virtually overnight, we'd never have had a money problem at the shelter again.


I don't think it was ever THAT extreme ($50 to $1mil overnight), but yeah, you would've been sitting pretty by now, as would I if I had stuck with my gut.  What seems like overnight is actually a process that takes months.  You're better off holding for now.

----------


## presence

> haha, nice.
> 
> Someone needs to compare bank interest on a CD to BTC in an easy chart grandpa can understand.

----------


## KCIndy

You mean to say banks are still paying interest on CDs?  Last time I asked about that, the teller started laughing hysterically, then started running in circles and grabbing at imaginary butterflies.  They led the poor chap away, and I haven't asked about CD rates since.

----------


## muh_roads

> 


lmao

'eh, professional enough.

----------


## Suzu

> I don't think it was ever THAT extreme ($50 to $1mil overnight), but yeah, you would've been sitting pretty by now, as would I if I had stuck with my gut.  What seems like overnight is actually a process that takes months.  You're better off holding for now.


I didn't mean "overnight" literally. But compared to anything else out there, it sure was.

----------


## muh_roads

Is there any arbitrage opportunity if selling LTC as USD, then rebuying BTC with that USD...or vice versa at current prices?

----------


## presence

> Is there any arbitrage opportunity if selling LTC as USD, then rebuying BTC with that USD...or vice versa at current prices?



There's often very little opportunity to "arbitrage" 

but

...often when moving large sums into the books... on longer trading movements.  If you want LTC... its easier to buy a brick of BTC then drop yourself in the middle of the market LTC/BTC for quick swap.   Not always the case, but whichever is tighter margin path often is easier to reenter when the time is right.  

Entering LTC from USD you might "iceburg" both LTC and BTC to USD at the price you want...  then keep your BTC's on the middle of the LTCBTC book as they come to you.

----------


## Dianne

> In a way I'd say that's good, not selling for a loss.  But it's also mixing strategies.  In my opinion, being a profitable trader requires adaptation and occasional stop loss.  If one plans to never sell at a loss, that's better than nothing, but a very large part of opportunity is missed.  Much less risk, much less reward.  I thought profits with such a conservative approach would still be worth not having coins in cold storage, now I'm not so sure.
> 
> If you're long on BTC and won't sell for a loss ever, at least consider securing your coins to the max and wait, instead of tying them up on an exchange, which is inevitable if you won't stop loss.  This wouldn't be true for sure if the above calculations don't hold, if Crypto flatlines from here forever or goes down, and wouldn't be true if there were no risk to having coin on an exchange.
> 
> Just holding crypto is a great return.  Not ever cutting losses while trading on an exchange can decrease potential for a better return by a lot.  Don't get greedy huh?  Where to draw the line?


Makes sense, thanks !

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Update on what's going on with BTC?  This steady decrease seems out of character for where it should be.

----------


## amonasro

> Update on what's going on with BTC?  This steady decrease seems out of character for where it should be.


It's hard to say really. There's no significant bad news other than the fake China ban, and with the low buying pressure the market is slow to recover. The weekend has been traditionally slow, and since these markets have an easier time going down than up, they go down. My take anyway.

I got out of BTC at .02701 last night with a small profit, making up for my stupid behavior after the LTC pump. I'll be watching for reversal signals today and tomorrow, then ride it up for awhile.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's hard to say really. There's no significant bad news other than the fake China ban, and with the low buying pressure the market is slow to recover. The weekend has been traditionally slow, and since these markets have an easier time going down than up, they go down. My take anyway.
> 
> I got out of BTC at .02701 last night with a small profit, making up for my stupid behavior after the LTC pump. I'll be watching for reversal signals today and tomorrow, then ride it up for awhile.


I'm already in.  Didn't play the last spike too well, but still made a good bit and got back in lower than I sold at.

----------


## muh_roads

Is this $20K referring to total buy & sell volume?

https://cryptotrader.org/plans

That's pretty easy to hit even if you're just moving $1K off and on all the time.

----------


## presence

> Is this $20K referring to total buy & sell volume?
> 
> https://cryptotrader.org/plans
> 
> That's pretty easy to hit even if you're just moving $1K off and on all the time.






> _* - Maximum equity amount each trading bot can operate with._



..

----------


## KCIndy

> Update on what's going on with BTC?  This steady decrease seems out of character for where it should be.


I don't know, but I really hope it holds for about another week, so I can do a bigger buy-in.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ..


What does this mean?  That we can't trade with more than $20k worth of coins?  What if we have a basic+ membership which has a $1k cap?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't know, but I really hope it holds for about another week, so I can do a bigger buy-in.


Have a pay day coming up?

I wouldn't worry too much.  Even if it does go up, it will be somewhat gradual.  Compared to where it's supposed to be going, that's a good buy-in price.

----------


## presence

> What does this mean?  That we can't trade with more than $20k worth of coins?  What if we have a basic+ membership which has a $1k cap?



I'm not sure to be honest

send email to dev?  

admin@cryptotrader.org "Alex" 


tbh one of the ppl on my mailing list told me about a month back that he was trading $50k on a basic+ without issues.   So I have no idea if cryptotrader's "limits" have teeth or if they're just fishing for sales.


if you guys are upgrading or renewing or creating new subscriptions please use my referral link:

https://cryptotrader.org/plans/?r=72

----------


## presence

DUMP GOLD, BUY CRYPTO:

----------


## lotsOfCake

> The primary reason is that bitcoin has already been more or less widely (widely being the operative word) adopted in society, whereas litecoin is not widely adopted at all.  It also does not offer enough unique advantages over bitcoin in order to make it a superior form of currency.  When choosing between two basically equal currencies as time goes on, society will favor the one with more infrastructure in society, bitcoin.  There is simply no good reason or motivation for people to adopt litecoin when we already have bitcoin infrastructure.  Litecoin's value is being held up mainly by speculation and a few residual believers that think it will eventually overtake bitcoin for reasons they deem adequate.


Don't know if anyone else has made this point but;
The security of the bitcoin network is it's hashing power.
The ASICs mess a bit with the dream of "every man is an equal part" - not so much with the equal, but the hashrate increases and so does the security of the network.
There are now LTC ASICs, but the hashrate ratio of BTC ASIC-vs-GPU is a lot bigger than the hashrate ratio of LTC ASIC-vs-GPU.

Anyway. Both networks are secure. Bitcoin is <some number> times more secure. This contributes to its value as a safe means of exchange, as well as a store of value (as long as it is being used as a means of exchange).

TLDR; more hashing power ---> more secure network ---> coin safer to use/hold

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Don't know if anyone else has made this point but;
> The security of the bitcoin network is it's hashing power.
> The ASICs mess a bit with the dream of "every man is an equal part" - not so much with the equal, but the hashrate increases and so does the security of the network.
> There are now LTC ASICs, but the hashrate ratio of BTC ASIC-vs-GPU is a lot bigger than the hashrate ratio of LTC ASIC-vs-GPU.
> 
> Anyway. Both networks are secure. Bitcoin is <some number> times more secure. This contributes to its value as a safe means of exchange, as well as a store of value (as long as it is being used as a means of exchange).
> 
> TLDR; more hashing power ---> more secure network ---> coin safer to use/hold


Good analysis.  I was looking at it purely from an economic perspective.  I somewhat understand the technical side, but I don't know enough to be able to explain it well with any confidence.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> DUMP GOLD, BUY CRYPTO:


It seems like gold would rise with inflation rather than take a few more decades to flop around in the $600-$1300 range.

----------


## lotsOfCake

cex.io mining prices: 0,01172181 bitcoin per gigahash, ~ 12 bitcoin per terrahash, ~ $6720 per terrahash
bfl butterfly - $2,196 600gh/s plus shipping handling and whatnot @2300 * 1.667 = 3800 ish
so lets say its $4500 ish per terrahash, * 43000 th/s in the network = _$193,500,000_ in (cheapest) mining gear, hosting not included


ltc:
alpha: 5 MH/s is $2209 and the 25 MH/s is $8918 = 
knc: $9,995 for 100 MH/s
cheapest announced device= $100 per MH/s, though a lot of people paying >$300 per MH/s when doing GPU mining (plus computer), although they have secondary functions and an after sale market as gaming gear
so lets say $150 per MH/s (very rough estimate). 
litecoin network at 180 GH/s, that's 180 * 1000 * $150 = *$27,000,000*


Some of these numbers were pulled out of my armpit, so take it with three grains of salt. Nevertheless, the results surprised me. It seems like the $ market cap for litecoin could feasibly go up quite far. ASICs will push the mining rate up, but it might push some miners out to scrypt-jane or scrypt-adaptive-n, balancing it out ..... Is litecoin destined to grow (relative to bitcoin)? I don't know. But a lot of stuff is going to happen in the altcoin market, for sure.

Note: Feel free to correct my math, it is needed.

----------


## lotsOfCake

from coinmarketcap:
btc market cap = $ 7,099,903,118
ltc market cap = $ 417,507,914
= ~ *17x* (higher market cap for btc than ltc)

My numbers from the previous post puts the "network security" as measured in mining gear investment as: ~ *7x* (more $ in mining power for btc than ltc)
I.e. based on security, ltc could go up 2.4x ish, relative to bitcoin

Then you have the "brand name" and (from von mises) the tendency for people to choose the currency that is already the most popular (to make it easier to trade)

----------


## muh_roads

> It seems like gold would rise with inflation rather than take a few more decades to flop around in the $600-$1300 range.


I'd say the first and possibly the second number is short-term enough to be possible.  JPM uses a $#@!-ton of digital debt to naked short silver.  It's going to take crypto a while to chop off the bankers hands because they will have more money than god for a long time to come yet.  And they'll keep buying guns and lie about how much is actually in their vaults for many years yet.

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## muh_roads

Set myself up with "Basic" on Cryptotrader to play with the backtesting.  That website doesn't seem to like my FireFox too well.  Pasted in one of yours pres and the little circle just keeps spinning.  Their little demo of 5000 starting and 5000 ending on the right panel doesn't change.

Can I hook secondary authentication into Cryptotrader?  Can't seem to find it.  Would be kinda important if this thing has direct API access to your exchange accounts.

----------


## presence



----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

I've talked to my bros in the Illuminati, they say, that btc is going down. Apparently the consensus is that taking control of the current implementation failed. The runup to a 1000, was their attempt to get a majority of the coins, however, people didn't sell them at the rate they thought they would, and it broke the formula. So, now they are gradually exiting, and instead will hamper bitcoin adoption via legislation, and offer up a near identical alternative that is regulated. However, they will buy in early, and control the majority.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've talked to my bros in the Illuminati, they say, that btc is going down. Apparently the consensus is that taking control of the current implementation failed. The runup to a 1000, was their attempt to get a majority of the coins, however, people didn't sell them at the rate they thought they would, and it broke the formula. So, now they are gradually exiting, and instead will hamper bitcoin adoption via legislation, and offer up a near identical alternative that is regulated. However, they will buy in early, and control the majority.


lol

Obvious troll is obvious.

----------


## presence

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/sta...36584554266624




> * Follow*
> 
> *Barry Silbert*‏@*barrysilbert**Requests from 38 institutional investors representing** +$250 billion** to meet with me re bitcoin at Barclays Emerging Payments Forum tomorrow*
> 
> 
> *RETWEETS56**FAVORITES38*
> *1:45 PM - 23 Mar 2014*






> *Barry Silbert* ‏@*barrysilbert** 2h*
> *@avishbhama indeed. It is the who's who of institutional investing**@murkster1 yeah, that was my reaction when I saw my schedule**@lmrankhan Crowne Plaza Times Square
> **Details*




STFU and buy Crypto

----------


## presence

> I've talked to my bros in the Illuminati, they say, that btc is going down. Apparently the consensus is that taking control of the current implementation failed. The runup to a 1000, was their attempt to get a majority of the coins, however, people didn't sell them at the rate they thought they would, and it broke the formula. So, now they are gradually exiting, and instead will hamper bitcoin adoption via legislation, and offer up a near identical alternative that is regulated. However, they will buy in early, and control the majority.





Really?





How have you managed to be member of this forum for  the better part of a decade... make simply brilliant statements like that  yet have zero reputation?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/sta...36584554266624
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STFU and buy Crypto


That's like 30 times the market cap of BTC...

----------


## Dianne

I don't know if this is just troll crap, but peeps flooding btc-e with this tonight:

*trade all BTC,FTC,LTC and TRC at vircurex for nmc and transfer it here! before they run away with your money! only way to get your money out before tomorrow!*

Problems with Vircurex?   Just heads up if you have coin there.

----------


## muh_roads

I wonder if paying out interest finally caught up with them?  NMC collected no interest.

Thanks for the heads up.  Didn't think I still had any coin there but I did.

----------


## muh_roads

> That's like 30 times the market cap of BTC...


I think Winklevoss predicted about 40-50x the current number and that it would happen "faster than anyone expects".

----------


## newbitech

I think interest only works in a fractional system where inflation is baked in.

----------


## muh_roads

> I think interest only works in a fractional system where inflation is baked in.


Yeah everyone knew they were paying out of their own pocket to try and keep people on their exchange since they were falling behind.

----------


## kpitcher

> I think interest only works in a fractional system where inflation is baked in.


I had a few doge left at vircurex, thanks for the warning.

Some exchanges share the trading fees and give it back as interest, such as mcxnow. There are a few that do this.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Is this big news or just a blip?

----------


## presence

VIRCUREX BANK RUN




> *Yet another Bitcoin exchange implodes: Vircurex will freeze accounts tomorrow*venturebeat.com/2014/03/23/yet-another-bitcoin-exchange-implodes-vircurex-will-freeze-accounts-tomorrow
> VentureBeat @venturebeat
> Yet another Bitcoin exchange implodes: Vircurex will freeze accounts tomorrow wp.me/p1re2-53Ww by @harrisonweber
> 
>  8 hours agoReplyRetweetFavorite192 more
> 
> 
> 
> *Bitcoin Exchange Vircurex Battles Insolvency*thenextweb.com/insider/2014/03/23/sound-familiar-bitcoin-exchange-vircurex-freezes-customer-accounts-as-it-battles-insolvency
> ...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> VIRCUREX BANK RUN


How are they going to pay people back if they are admitting they are insolvent?  Now nobody's going to want to keep doing business with them, which they would have to in order for the plan to work.

----------


## presence

> How are they going to pay people back if they are admitting they are insolvent?  Now nobody's going to want to keep doing business with them, which they would have to in order for the plan to work.



You're asking pertinent questions there bossman.

----------


## muh_roads

Is cryptotrader always so laggy and unresponsive?  Pasting source code in does nothing.  Linking to one of yours pres sits and spins forever, sometimes needs multiple refreshes to work.

Totally unimpressed, there must be something I'm doing completely wrong.

----------


## amonasro

> Is this big news or just a blip?


It's a small exchange. Their 30 day volume is 55btc.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/sta...36584554266624
> STFU and buy Crypto


Looks like happy hour is about over.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Is cryptotrader always so laggy and unresponsive?  Pasting source code in does nothing.  Linking to one of yours pres sits and spins forever, sometimes needs multiple refreshes to work.
> 
> Totally unimpressed, there must be something I'm doing completely wrong.


Which browser are you using?  Firefox has issues with ct.org for sure.

----------


## presence

IMAGE EXTENDS OFF EDGE OF PAGE, CLICK "VIEW"

----------


## lotsOfCake

so i'm reading Presence's map as;
matching the aftereffects of the end of "red dragons" and so on in july 2013, and seeing a lot of similarities in the bitcoin price now and then (curve fitting),
we see that we are hitting some long term trend lines and almost crossing down to several lines of long support (13 bucks etc, which it will not go below)
meaning its hard to know exactly how far it will drop right now, but that most likely:
we are at or near the start of a 7-10 day ish solid uptrend in ltcbtc

in late june, early july,in a matching period last year, btc went down, ltc went up, (and consequently ltcbtc went up a lot). 

if vircurex was to die at the same time, that wouldn't surprise me very much

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's a small exchange. Their 30 day volume is 55btc.


Oh, ok.  Wow, that's small.  Still, though, separating the wheat from the chaff...

----------


## staerker

Presence:     You suggest to run Dragon Slayer Part A right now? When do you see it being ideal to switch to Part B, and what could change that proposed time interval?

I am strongly considering renting your script, but would not be able to make any sort of educated guess as to when to switch.

----------


## muh_roads

> Which browser are you using?  Firefox has issues with ct.org for sure.


Tried both FireFox & now Chrome.  Strangely Chrome is worse.  I'm confused.

----------


## Dianne

> so i'm reading Presence's map as;
> matching the aftereffects of the end of "red dragons" and so on in july 2013, and seeing a lot of similarities in the bitcoin price now and then (curve fitting),
> we see that we are hitting some long term trend lines and almost crossing down to several lines of long support (13 bucks etc, which it will not go below)
> meaning its hard to know exactly how far it will drop right now, but that most likely:
> we are at or near the start of a 7-10 day ish solid uptrend in ltcbtc
> 
> in late june, early july,in a matching period last year, btc went down, ltc went up, (and consequently ltcbtc went up a lot). 
> 
> if vircurex was to die at the same time, that wouldn't surprise me very much


I can never understand the charts posted by presence, so thanks for giving a summary !!

----------


## amonasro

> Presence:     You suggest to run Dragon Slayer Part A right now? When do you see it being ideal to switch to Part B, and what could change that proposed time interval?


I think the beginning of April was his timeframe, so you have a week or so of sideways/downward consolidation before things pick up. The bears are aaaaalmost gone 




> I can never understand the charts posted by presence, so thanks for giving a summary !!


Basically he's using past performance to predict future price. If you check out the first post in the thread, you'll see how the market repeats itself. You can zoom in or out (use www.bitcoinwisdom.com for market data) to find repeating patterns within patterns, kind of like fractals. Play with different candle settings (daily, hourly, 15 minute, etc.) to watch larger or smaller timeframes and you'll start to see these patterns of varying forms and sizes, over and over again.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think the beginning of April was his timeframe, so you have a week or so of sideways/downward consolidation before things pick up. The bears are aaaaalmost gone 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically he's using past performance to predict future price. If you check out the first post in the thread, you'll see how the market repeats itself. You can zoom in or out (use www.bitcoinwisdom.com for market data) to find repeating patterns within patterns, kind of like fractals. Play with different candle settings (daily, hourly, 15 minute, etc.) to watch larger or smaller timeframes and you'll start to see these patterns of varying forms and sizes, over and over again.


To me, it looks like the bulls have already moved in.  Also, he can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think mid- to late-April is probably a more accurate projection.

----------


## amonasro

> To me, it looks like the bulls have already moved in.  Also, he can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think mid- to late-April is probably a more accurate projection.


That's right, I forgot about the manual trading before bot activation. The bulls are definitely getting excited, for sure, but first we need to break the downtrend line that connects 1162, 963, 814 and 694 (approximate). If you look at the Gox 12h chart at this point in the cycle (June/July) there is an almost textbook reverse head & shoulders pattern that knocks at that same trendline from below three times before it finally breaks out. We've hit it twice now... so close...

----------


## nayjevin

> Basically he's using past performance to predict future price. If you check out the first post in the thread, you'll see how the market repeats itself. You can zoom in or out (use www.bitcoinwisdom.com for market data) to find repeating patterns within patterns, kind of like fractals. Play with different candle settings (daily, hourly, 15 minute, etc.) to watch larger or smaller timeframes and you'll start to see these patterns of varying forms and sizes, over and over again.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is possible because human beings are not individually predictable, but are collectively predictable approximately.  Seeing the price going up has a predictable enough response by enough people to make betting on that aggregate response profitable.  Looks like magic without education.  How to relig the unwashed.

----------


## amonasro

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is possible because human beings are not individually predictable, but are collectively predictable approximately.  Seeing the price going up has a predictable enough response by enough people to make betting on that aggregate response profitable.  Looks like magic without education.  How to relig the unwashed.


Pretty much. I'm still early on learning about TA "voodoo", but it's simply predicting mass psychology. Take a simple double top: Price bounces off a certain level twice with increased volume on the first try, decreased volume on the second, but ultimately fails to go higher. The bears (sellers) then take control and the price goes lower as the bulls give up, often to a measurable distance from the top. This is like when you were a kid and knock at your friend's front door. Nobody home? Knock again. Maybe you'll knock a third time if you really want to see him. If nobody answers after a few knock attempts, you probably won't stick around all day waiting. If someone answers, the more times you knocked, the happier you are.

Or take a sideways triangle or pennant consolidation pattern, when the market doesn't know which direction to go and supply and demand are in relative balance. The price bounces off ever constricting levels with decreasing volume as it approaches the apex. It generally either breaks up or down about 3/4 of the way through with a burst in volume. This is like starting an activity, gradually getting bored with it until there is little interest left, then finding something new to do with increased excitement.

To your point, I think the herd mentality simply strengthens these preexisting tendencies of the individual. Of course the herd can go in an unexpected direction if a lion comes out of nowhere, and that is the risk you take.

----------


## presence

*Results for @litepresence*


*Top* / All


*litepresence* ‏@*litepresence** 15h*
*sell litecoins @ $12 price drop imminent much coinz much wowz much im a arseholez #bitcoin #litecoin*
*Expand
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**litepresence ‏@litepresence 15h*
*i know much about coinz and cryptographically computers internet lolz #####*
*Expand
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**litepresence ‏@litepresence 15h*
*y'all my twitter followers hail the real king or crypto*
*Expand
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**People · View all* 
*Youve reached the end of the Top Tweets for @litepresence.
View all Tweets.
*

----------


## presence

https://twitter.com/search?q=%40litepresence&src=typd
*
^^ NOT MY TWITTER ACCOUNT
--------------------------------------------------
vv MY TWITTER

*https://twitter.com/search?q=%40oraclepresence&src=typd*

*Results for *@oraclepresence**Top* / All


*People* · View all
*presence*@oraclepresence Follow



*Tradewave* ‏@*tradewavenet** Mar 15*
*Anatomy of a Bitcoin bubble: http://cl.ly/image/292I3Z1p2p3f … — credit to @oraclepresence*
* View photo
 Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More



**presence ‏@oraclepresence Jan 29*
*$500/BTC >>> http://i58.tinypic.com/1zmzhp1.png  $10/LTC >>> http://i57.tinypic.com/24azluu.png  any questions?*
*Expand
 Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More



*

----------


## muh_roads

> *Results for @litepresence*
> 
> 
> *Top* / All
> 
> 
> *litepresence* ‏@*litepresence** 15h*
> *sell litecoins @ $12 price drop imminent much coinz much wowz much im a arseholez #bitcoin #litecoin*
> *Expand
> ...


Report the account as abusive and you get some options.

----------


## Dianne

> I think the beginning of April was his timeframe, so you have a week or so of sideways/downward consolidation before things pick up. The bears are aaaaalmost gone 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically he's using past performance to predict future price. If you check out the first post in the thread, you'll see how the market repeats itself. You can zoom in or out (use www.bitcoinwisdom.com for market data) to find repeating patterns within patterns, kind of like fractals. Play with different candle settings (daily, hourly, 15 minute, etc.) to watch larger or smaller timeframes and you'll start to see these patterns of varying forms and sizes, over and over again.


I took your advice and started studying the charts.   Are the patterns repeated because most use the charts to make their buy/sell decisions?

This is really fascinating.

----------


## muh_roads

Interesting video to watch if you are like me and trying to proceed carefully.  Learned a little bit while I struggle with the sites technical issues.




I'm really afraid to plug my exchange API in...lol

I'm still undecided how much coin I am going to put through this when the time comes.  Right now I'm thinking I will use 10%.  If what pres has can really return 60x-100x, then 10% should be more than enough...lol

----------


## muh_roads

It's a shame that LTC/BTC is much more complicated to get working successfully than LTC/USD.  I'm super opposed to cashing out in USD because of the tax man.  No trade bragging should take place here, for your own good.  We all know how the IRS can communicate with the NSA and tap into warrantless data collecting.  It could also stretch into other complaints regarding bot use.

They target Tea Party groups.  I wouldn't be surprised if our board is targeted...lol

The tax-free "like-kind" Crypto to Crypto like LTC/BTC is absolutely brilliant.  The US Government has no jurisdiction over Crypto on the books.

But I can see why you can't do 80x with LTC/BTC.  They move together.  Where as a Crypto to debt moves farther apart from each other for massive swings.

----------


## amonasro

> I took your advice and started studying the charts.   Are the patterns repeated because most use the charts to make their buy/sell decisions?
> 
> This is really fascinating.


I think there is a self-fulfilling prophecy to some of it, as an example my BTC/LTC sell walls last night were grouped together with a few other big traders (who likely had the same strategy as me) and as a result, I had to move them down this morning and manually trade it for a slightly smaller profit. However I think there are so many ways to interpret charts with different strategies and so many buying/selling for reasons other than trading that there's enough room for everybody. And of course there are the new traders who jump in too deep and get eaten up, for sure. I don't watch the BTCe trollbox, but when the page auto-refreshes I see some of their posts.

----------


## amonasro

> I'm really afraid to plug my exchange API in...lol


I haven't used the BTCe API yet, but with Bitstamp's you can give it different permissions. So if it's trading for you on CryptoTrader, obviously don't give it withdraw or deposit permission. If a hacker somehow did get control of your CT account, all he could do is access buy/sell commands on your BTCe account. It would not be worth his time.

And good point about taxes. I don't think anyone here is planning on skirting the IRS given the transparent nature of blockchains. If we want to keep using crypto as a disruptive technology, the best long term plan is to pay your dues begrudgingly while the dinosaur fiat system dies a slow death. Here's a great site, btw: http://www.bitcointax.info/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's a shame that LTC/BTC is much more complicated to get working successfully than LTC/USD.  I'm super opposed to cashing out in USD because of the tax man.  No trade bragging should take place here, for your own good.  We all know how the IRS can communicate with the NSA and tap into warrantless data collecting.  It could also stretch into other complaints regarding bot use.
> 
> They target Tea Party groups.  I wouldn't be surprised if our board is targeted...lol
> 
> The tax-free "like-kind" Crypto to Crypto like LTC/BTC is absolutely brilliant.  The US Government has no jurisdiction over Crypto on the books.
> 
> But I can see why you can't do 80x with LTC/BTC.  They move together.  Where as a Crypto to debt moves farther apart from each other for massive swings.


You don't need to report what takes place on the exchange... no way.  Until you have dollars transferred to your bank account, it's all just exchange credit.  You can immediately convert those USD back to any currency you want and nobody knows a damn thing, so don't worry about taxes until you've put actual dollars into your actual bank account.

The NSA can't just scroll through the blockchain and find you because your identity isn't attached to any of those transactions.  If that ever does happen, it will be a while.  Until then, the banks are the only ones who will report your activity to the IRS.

----------


## Dianne

> You don't need to report what takes place on the exchange... no way.  Until you have dollars transferred to your bank account, it's all just exchange credit.  You can immediately convert those USD back to any currency you want and nobody knows a damn thing, so don't worry about taxes until you've put actual dollars into your actual bank account.
> 
> The NSA can't just scroll through the blockchain and find you because your identity isn't attached to any of those transactions.  If that ever does happen, it will be a while.  Until then, the banks are the only ones who will report your activity to the IRS.


I've been doing some research on setting up an offshore LLC.  You know, like all our politicians do, lol.

I've read Anguilla, Belize and Nevis are three great countries to open an offshore LLC as they do not list LLC owners in the public record; and don't cooperate with any information sharing.  Very strict privacy laws.   For the cost of 1.5 btc. you can hire an attorney in one of those countries to set up the LLC.   They will also assist in opening a bank account for you in the name of the LLC.     Then all alt. coin transactions can be processed through the offshore bank account.

I'm seriously considering doing this, and placing all my assets into the name of the LLC; including my home.

----------


## Dianne

> Interesting video to watch if you are like me and trying to proceed carefully.  Learned a little bit while I struggle with the sites technical issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really afraid to plug my exchange API in...lol
> 
> I'm still undecided how much coin I am going to put through this when the time comes.  Right now I'm thinking I will use 10%.  If what pres has can really return 60x-100x, then 10% should be more than enough...lol


That was really interesting and very helpful.     Although I still get the "willies" when I think of turning my small investment over to bots.     Of course, I'm sure they will do far better than I have.     At least they completely ignore the trollbox lol.

----------


## newbitech

> I took your advice and started studying the charts.   Are the patterns repeated because most use the charts to make their buy/sell decisions?
> 
> This is really fascinating.


Exchanges record human action.  Humans are creatures of habit.

Pretty good psych article in general.  Understand the habits of traders and how to translate the candles and lines into actions, you'll be a winner. 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...reatures-habit

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/creatures-habit

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've been doing some research on setting up an offshore LLC.  You know, like all our politicians do, lol.
> 
> I've read Anguilla, Belize and Nevis are three great countries to open an offshore LLC as they do not list LLC owners in the public record; and don't cooperate with any information sharing.  Very strict privacy laws.   For the cost of 1.5 btc. you can hire an attorney in one of those countries to set up the LLC.   They will also assist in opening a bank account for you in the name of the LLC.     Then all alt. coin transactions can be processed through the offshore bank account.
> 
> I'm seriously considering doing this, and placing all my assets into the name of the LLC; including my home.


Wow, it sounds risky.  Good luck with tax evasion.  Just saying, though, I hope they're not spying on this board.

----------


## nayjevin

> I've been doing some research on setting up an offshore LLC.  You know, like all our politicians do, lol.
> 
> I've read Anguilla, Belize and Nevis are three great countries to open an offshore LLC as they do not list LLC owners in the public record; and don't cooperate with any information sharing.  Very strict privacy laws.   For the cost of 1.5 btc. you can hire an attorney in one of those countries to set up the LLC.   They will also assist in opening a bank account for you in the name of the LLC.     Then all alt. coin transactions can be processed through the offshore bank account.
> 
> I'm seriously considering doing this, and placing all my assets into the name of the LLC; including my home.


I cannot believe you would consider transferring GDP elsewhere I.E. undermining national security I.E. terrorism.

----------


## presence

> I've been doing some research on setting up an offshore LLC.  You know, like all our politicians do, lol.
> 
> I've read Anguilla, Belize and Nevis are three great countries to open an offshore LLC as they do not list LLC owners in the public record; and don't cooperate with any information sharing.  Very strict privacy laws.   For the cost of 1.5 btc. you can hire an attorney in one of those countries to set up the LLC.   They will also assist in opening a bank account for you in the name of the LLC.     Then all alt. coin transactions can be processed through the offshore bank account.
> 
> I'm seriously considering doing this, and placing all my assets into the name of the LLC; including my home.



You don't owe $#@! to the state.  It has become enemy to free markets and freedom.  Do what is best for your interests.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> I cannot believe you would consider transferring GDP elsewhere I.E. undermining national security I.E. terrorism.


lolol

----------


## presence

http://www.ifre.com/derivatives-firs...137930.article

DERIVATIVES: First Bitcoin swaps created

The Fierce Battle for the Soul of Bitcoin
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise...social_twitter

Taxes Won’t Kill Bitcoin, but Tax Reporting Might
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/...seid=auto&_r=0

Still More Bitcoin Investing: Circle Internet Financial Raises $17 Million From Oak, Others
http://recode.net/2014/03/26/still-m...om-oak-others/
*
IRS Says Bitcoin Counts as Property for Tax Purposes
http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/...s-70136-1.html*


Bitcoin Exchange Kraken Raises $5m in Latest Funding Round
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-exch...bird-ventures/

Start-Up Unveils Bitcoin Payments Product
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/...nal-financing/

Decentralized Applications to Offer More Than Just Bitcoin Transactions
http://www.coindesk.com/decentralize...-transactions/

Agora Commodities Reports $10m in Bitcoin Sales
http://www.coindesk.com/agora-commod...bitcoin-sales/

Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency Research Conference
https://citp.princeton.edu/event/bit...aign=hootsuite

Follow the venture capital money into bitcoin
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell...it-conference/

Tera Exchange announces first Bitcoin derivative
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/0...A2N0G120140324

"Coinscrum" 2500 Capacity Event featuring Max Keiser LONDON APRIL 5th
http://www.meetup.com/London-bitcoin...nts/172326872/

Bitcoin's backers know they need to win you over
http://www.pcworld.com/article/21119...-you-over.html

Kraken Audit Proves Reserves
http://www.coindesk.com/krakens-audi...coins-reserve/


LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! 
http://new.livestream.com/coinsummit/events/2832000

----------


## presence

Bitcoin Exchange Kraken Raises $5m in Latest Funding Round
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-exch...bird-ventures/

*UPDATE 1-Mt. Gox says working with police in missing bitcoin probe
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/26/bitcoin-mtgox-idUSL4N0MN0XW20140326*75 Places to Spend Your Bitcoins
http://www.shopify.ca/blog/10480345-75-places-to-spend-your-bitcoins

At San Franciscos CoinSummit, Marc Andreessen (a Pando investor) called out Warren Buffet over comments the billionaire had made about Bitcoin being a mirage. Andreessen called Buffet and his ilk old white men crapping on new technology they dont understand. [Source: Business Insider]

----------


## presence

TORRENTING One thing that would REALLY help the Namecoin mission is being a Feens torrent seeder. Are you doing that? Keep us drone proof. Info on setting it up to automate with our torrent-specific RSS feed is here; 
http://freedomfeens.com/blog/torrents/

----------


## presence

http://www.examiner.com/article/bitc...and-mastercard
Bitcoin exchange allows fund withdrawals via Visa and MasterCard 

http://www.dcmagnates.com/tradologic...inary-options/
TRADOLOGIC Launches Bitcoin, Litecoin Binary Options

----------


## presence

By Kevin Collier (Google+) on March 24, 2014EmailBitcoin enthusiasts are getting sweaty—and this time, not just because of frantic price fluctuations or the exchange service Mt. Gox finding and losing hundreds of millions of dollars.
Europeans are trying a hot new variant of the drug MDMA—better known as ecstasy—that adopts the name and logo of the world's most popular cryptocurrency, though there doesn't seem to be any other connection.
Redditor and Bitcoin user omnibrain said he overheard a guy in the restroom of a Swiss club talking about "bitcoins." That prompted an "extremely confusing conversation," he wrote, that led to a funny photo, though not a sale.

_Photo by omnibrain_Some people sure buy them, however.
Since late November 2013, multiple users have reviewed Bitcoin the MDMA on the website pillreports.com, which encourages users post and review ecstasy variants around the world. Bitcoin the drug seems to be a European phenomenon, with reviewers referring to trying it in the Netherlands and U.K.
"Lovely waves of rushes, eye wobbles and some serious gurning (went through 2 packs of spoggy)!" wrote one U.K. reviewer, confirming that Cockney ravers and I speak a completely different language.
"my pupils were dilated as hell, i was cross-eyed for some time," wroteanother, "but, these bitcoins are the $#@!!" A third experienced "teeth clenching and eye wobbles," and "was sick" after taking two, but still gave the drug his recommendation.
_Photo via pillreports.com_Another thread indicates that there are at least four different kinds of ecstasy that use the name Bitcoin; indeed, photos of the drug often vary by submitter.
_Photo via pillreports.com_Ironically, some of Bitcoin's earliest mainstream press came from reports that people could use it to order drugs through the late online black marketSilk Road, and ecstasy was the most popular of those drugs. But none of the reviewers mentioned anything about the original Bitcoin; they seem to just take the name.
"Honestly I think the guy selling them had no idea what bitcoin even is," omnibrain wrote. "I didn't buy any. I might have if he accepted bitcoins."
_Photo via pillreports.com_

----------


## presence

..
*Gyft Adds Retail Giant Walmart to its Bitcoin Gift Card Network*

Pete Rizzo (@pete_rizzo_) | Published on March 24, 2014 at 21:07 GMT | *Merchants, News*

Tweet*Share269*

__
_Update 23:00 GMT - Updated with commentary from Gyft CEO Vinny Lingham 
San Francisco-based mobile gift card app provider Gyft officially added US retail giant Walmart to its merchant network on 24th March.


_

----------


## presence

> News for _gold_
> Wall St. Cheat Sheet
> 
> 
> 
> _Gold_ Touches Five-Week Low But The _Gold_Bugs Say It's Still The Best Hedge Against Emerging Market Volatility
> Forbes[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.498039)] ‎- 7 hours ago[/COLOR]
> _Gold_ stumbled to its lowest levels in over a month on Tuesday on better-than-expected economic news -- but the goldbugs insist that the ...
> 
> ...


...


didn't I post a chart about this a few days ago?

----------


## presence

> THE THIRD WAVE >>>> 
> 
> 
> will be merchants sick and tired of giving Visa a 3 percent cut of every sale they make. ‟The market size of radical libertarians is pretty small,” Liew explained. ‟People who want to conduct illicit business is bigger, but it’s still not enormous.


http://www.dailydot.com/business/bit...ertarian-lost/

----------


## muh_roads

okay getting the hang of this Cryptotrader site and its quirks.  I guess I just have to let it sit and think and think.  Thought it was locking up but it seems to eventually work.  Sometimes the main header needs to be clicked as it can't get out of certain functions.

pres,

So I've been trade simulating one of your LTC/BTC scripts for a couple days and it made its first sale.  It dumped the entire arbitrary number.  But it seemed too slow at it.  I was wondering if you had a more up to date version that sells faster when the EMA lines cross?

----------


## presence

http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-sheyang...2--sector.html

*How rumor sparked panic and three-day bank run in Chinese city*

----------


## presence

> okay getting the hang of this Cryptotrader site and its quirks.  I guess I just have to let it sit and think and think.  Thought it was locking up but it seems to eventually work.  Sometimes the main header needs to be clicked as it can't get out of certain functions.
> 
> pres,
> 
> So I've been trade simulating one of your LTC/BTC scripts for a couple days and it made its first sale.  It dumped the entire arbitrary number.  But it seemed too slow at it.  I was wondering if you had a more up to date version that sells faster when the EMA lines cross?



That's NOT an EMA cross bot; its a slope bot.

It sold when the slope of the green line was less than 0.  It probably set to "less than -0.01" or something like that.  The purple line is a "price limit" for buy and sell orders.  So it sells when green slope is negative but at a price no less than the purple line.

----------


## presence

paladin some scripts in your PM

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Are we still waiting for LTC to hit 036?  It seems to be getting hit pretty hard when BTC has a minor downswing.

----------


## presence

> Are we still waiting for LTC to hit 036?  It seems to be getting hit pretty hard when BTC has a minor downswing.



There has been a 400 BTC wall sitting at 02935 for 4 days now.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> There has been a 400 BTC wall sitting at 02935 for 4 days now.


Meaning it's going to bounce off of that until it breaks through?  Or is it even going to reach that?  We haven't really approached that price yet.

----------


## lotsOfCake

So there were some fake rumors about bitcoin trading being shut down on april 15th in china.
The rumors circulated the last couple of days. They were confirmed to be false.
Can post sources if people want, but google works too.

----------


## nayjevin

> litepresence	    	1 Week Ago	10 days nothing but bulls for LTC...


trollboxarchive.com/search.php?search_type=username&search=litepresenc  e

I have 3 fantasy portfolios, one trades pres advice, one trades mathematically, and one trades lottery.  I am chalking the results up to sample size anomoly, benefit of the doubt.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So there were some fake rumors about bitcoin trading being shut down on april 15th in china.
> The rumors circulated the last couple of days. They were confirmed to be false.
> Can post sources if people want, but google works too.


Is that why Huobi has been taking a couple of nosedives lately?  Is that all there is to it?

----------


## muh_roads

> Is that why Huobi has been taking a couple of nosedives lately?  Is that all there is to it?


Wonder if the 3-day bank run had a ripple affect on btc somehow...
http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-sheyang...2--sector.html

One thing is clear...China can clearly move BTC moreso than the West.

----------


## lotsOfCake

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8vxafo&s=8
bull vs bear : > can't decide whether to panic or not

----------


## lotsOfCake

So basically "touching the baseline" and giving a pretty strong rise signal? i guess? I can never tell, with red dragons.

----------


## newbitech

BTC-Stamp, bounce off of 400 in 7-10 days, the channel is pretty obvious (daily and weekly), btc has been trading on technicals since peak at the beginning of the year.  Will we finally get to see a 7/30 MA cross on the weekly chart?  Hmm.. I think so.  Hasn't happened since the coming out party that peaked almost 1 year ago.  

If I'm wrong and BTC somehow manages to break counter trend resistance, I'd look for a rapid rebound to 700 in the same time frame.  Considerable selling pressure as volume is beginning to ramp on the downside for the daily.  

Good luck out there, I see some heavy losses coming after the bounce off 400 and new resist levels are established.  I don't see this trend losing any steam anytime soon, regardless of news/developments or fiat investment.  

This is a technical correction that is long over due, and the real test comes when the april 2013 peak support is breached, which I believe MUST happen to bring the technicals back in to harmony.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Hi litepresence,

(I'm also LibertyTeeth at BTC-e.)  On Saturday, I signed up.  I think it's neat the way I did it as well; I was using a different computer than I have a wallet on, so I used Coinbase to buy $51 worth (a bit extra, just in case I need for fees etc), and signed up for a month at CryptoTrader.  Then I bought $100 worth to sign up for a month of Dragon Slayer A.

I really like that I did it that way!  This aligns with "the future", in terms of it being a payment method, which I've read a few times on CoinDesk.

I want to report results, as well, which are so far really neat.  I started with X amount of Litecoins, then sent some more in, and just to be careful turned the bot off and back on (looks like I didn't need to do that).  It sold them all, in the first few hours.  I also had recorded the price when I turned the bot on, so I could calculate both the total Litecoins (X) as well as the dollar value ($Y).

It bought; sold; bought; sold; the maximum draw-down was to one half of one percent below my initial $Y.  Then yesterday, it sold out, ending about 24 hours ago; final sale was at $16.4.

Today, it's down significantly; right now near the low of $13.65, at $13.78.  So it's already bringing me a "profit"!  The dollar amount is two cents higher than $Y -- and the LTC equivalent (since I'm all in fiat right now) has increased X by 7.8%.

This all in a week, all at a time that's a bit early for the "bull run".

I am already very happy with my purchase!  If it can do better than 1% a day at a time when it's not the best time to run it?  I can't wait to see what it does this summer!

Life, love, and liberty,
LibertyTeeth

PS I love that it cancels an open order after exactly 1776 seconds.  And not, for instance, 1788 seconds.

----------


## muh_roads

Wow some whale is dumping hard.

----------


## Dianne

> Wow some whale is dumping hard.


I'm thinking we have Wolves on Wall Street now, since IRS pretty much gave their blessing to btc yesterday.     Wolves driving the panic sellers out the door (Chinese and American), getting as low as they can go; before they buy up everything they can get cheap, and up we go.

Just my humble opinion.    But this is an orchestrated "crash", and too much of a coincidence a day or two after IRS legitimized btc for the hedge funds to invest.

----------


## XTreat

Trading is such an emotional hobby. 

I sold at 16 and bought back in at 15 and 14.5. I should be happy right?

No I am sad because I could have bought back at 12.50.....

----------


## Dianne

> Trading is such an emotional hobby. 
> 
> I sold at 16 and bought back in at 15 and 14.5. I should be happy right?
> 
> No I am sad because I could have bought back at 12.50.....


Heavy manipulation right now... No wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you could know that.    You can't look back, just look forward.     You bought back at $15.00; and at some point you will sell at $19.00 or $21.00.

----------


## muh_roads

> So there were some fake rumors about bitcoin trading being shut down on april 15th in china.
> The rumors circulated the last couple of days. They were confirmed to be false.
> Can post sources if people want, but google works too.


I'm starting to wish China would ban BTC at this point so we could grow naturally.  The stupid rumors are worse than actual news.

I'm also just pissed I don't have more funds ready...lol

----------


## newbitech

> I'm thinking we have Wolves on Wall Street now, since IRS pretty much gave their blessing to btc yesterday.     Wolves driving the panic sellers out the door (Chinese and American), getting as low as they can go; before they buy up everything they can get cheap, and up we go.
> 
> Just my humble opinion.    But this is an orchestrated "crash", and too much of a coincidence a day or two after IRS legitimized btc for the hedge funds to invest.


It's really a technical sell off more than anything else.  The way I read it, this is very healthy for any security that has seen such a meteoric rise.  I don't even think the lows of this "bear" are in yet.  The price was never really justified technically once it skyrocketed over the 260 level from the last bubble.

In fact, a really instructive analysis if you are all in to "curve fitting" as many appear to be, take a look at the 3 bubbles BTC has had. 

First bubble launched from $1.20 (mtGox) to a peak of $31.91 (mtGox).
Second bubble launched from $17.59 (mtGox) and $17.60 (stamp) to a peak of $260 (mtGox) and $259.34 (stamp).
Third bubble launched from $163 (mtGox) and $147.39 (stamp) to a peak of $1242 (mtGox) and $1163 (stamp).

now, that is not the interesting part.  The interesting part is the corrective lows.
First bubble corrective low $1.99 (mtGox).
Second bubble corrective low $50.01 (mtGox) and $45 (stamp).
Third bubble corrective low???

Let's curve fit.
Low/Launch = target ratio

1st Bubblit 
1.99/1.20 = 1.658 (mtGox)

2nd Bubblit
50.01/17.59 = 2.843 (mtGox)
45/17.6 = 2.557 (stamp)

3rd Bubblit
x/163 = z (mtGox)
y/147.39 = z (stamp)

Since we are just have the 3 data points, lets smooth those out with averaging and let z (target ratio) be
(1.658+2.843+2.557)/3 = 2.353  and solve for x (corrective low mtGox) and y (corrective low stamp)

x/163 = 2.353 
x = 163 * 2.353 = 383.54

y/147.39 = 2.353
y=147.39 * 2.353 = 346.81

Now for something REALLY interesting.  Lets focus in on stamp for a minute.  Stamp has posted a cyclical low of 382.21.

How does that fit our really simple linear regression model?  

Plug in y!

382.21/147.39 = 2.593.

Whoa!  

So, question now becomes,  is the low in for stamp?  I think it is (until it isn't), BUT, this is technical chart analysis.  We must recall ALWAYS that past performance does not guarantee future results.  

This is simply another way of stating that a one dimensional analysis based on a couple of peaks and troughs won't help you make any short term trading gains.  

And if you are serious about cashing in on the upcoming volatility and not getting caught on the wrong side of a head fake paradigm shift, you'll consider one key point that I've always tried to make here regarding the bitcoin exchanges.  

The free market makes technical analysis easy as pie.  

So forgetting all the curve fitting which I just showed to work marvelously by the way, you really only need to watch one thing and one thing only in the coming week.

That is the weekly volume bars.  If you pull up any bitchart site and look at any exchange, set it to weekly and zoom all the way out.  Make sure obviously that you have the volume indicator on. 


Couple of really really basic technical analysis observations.

Notice how the volume bars are getting bigger as the price falls?
Notice how the volume bars are getting smaller as the price rises?

Rising volume means conviction.  Declining volume means doubtful.

Now, look at this week red (so far) volume bar.  

If that volume bar passes the last green volume bar and it's red, then the price correction will be over and should sit somewhere well below the curve fit we just analyzed. 

If it's green?  Well you won't be too late to buy it because it will likely mean a counter trend reversal is in full effect and I believe the euphoria will once again take hold and another fractal rise will occur.  

*note* weekly intraday figures

*disclosure*  I have a very small position in BTC about 0.2 that I am holding for novelty purposes.  I see this market correcting into the sub 200's before the end of the year.  I'd like to see it get back down to around $100 or so before I seriously consider playing in it again.  

From what I see in the full scale weekly charts, sub 100 is certainly not out of the question.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm starting to wish China would ban BTC at this point so we could grow naturally.  The stupid rumors are worse than actual news.
> 
> I'm also just pissed I don't have more funds ready...lol


BTC would never be the same without China.  It has almost a fifth of the world population.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Stupid question, but how do you zoom in and out on bitcoinwisdom charts?

----------


## muh_roads

China buying like crazy still.

http://www.fiatleak.com/

Looks like we can now watch coins fly into Brazil as well.

----------


## newbitech

> Stupid question, but how do you zoom in and out on bitcoinwisdom charts?


mousewheel

----------


## muh_roads

> Stupid question, but how do you zoom in and out on bitcoinwisdom charts?


Change to a shorter time.

----------


## muh_roads

Supposedly, the Chinese Central Bank is banning the ability to withdraw from exchanges.  Bitcoin isn't banned, that was a mistranslation on Weibo (Chinese Twitter).  But without being able to move funds in or out via traditional bank transfer, things just got more complicated.

This isn't 100% confirmed but similar reports are starting to pop up.

----------


## muh_roads

> BTC would never be the same without China.  It has almost a fifth of the world population.


Only temporarily.

Christ check out fiatleak.  If that rumor is true the Chinese people don't seem to care.  They are buying truck loads.

----------


## muh_roads

> driving the panic sellers out the door (Chinese and American), getting as low as they can go; before they buy up everything they can get cheap, and up we go.
> 
> Just my humble opinion.    But this is an orchestrated "crash", and too much of a coincidence a day or two after IRS legitimized btc for the hedge funds to invest.


If this China thing is bull$#@! I'd say Mission Accomplished.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> mousewheel


I don't have a mousewheel.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Change to a shorter time.


I know how to do that.  He was talking about zooming in and out on the 1w chart.

----------


## XTreat

> I don't have a mousewheel.



ctrl + page up or page down

----------


## muh_roads

Bitfinex is an interesting exchange if you're feeling frisky.  Can trade on Margin and deal with USD Swaps.

----------


## muh_roads

Buying some PPC.  $2.30 is tough to resist.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ctrl + page up or page down


Thanks.  No Ctrl necessary.

----------


## amonasro

> Heavy manipulation right now... No wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you could know that.    You can't look back, just look forward.     You bought back at $15.00; and at some point you will sell at $19.00 or $21.00.


I dunno, I managed to grab .0265. I bought higher too, at .027 just in case. I was backstage at a show nervously checking my phone before I had to go on. It filled just a few minutes before my entrance--what a rush! Presence's call @ $13 was spot on.

I used to think manipulation was at hand too (and I'm sure there's orchestrated manipulation going on in a market this small, sure, even if it's just whale friends calling each other up, "hey, you going to sell today?") but I don't think it happens as often as people think. People just get nervous about any sort of uncertainty, and the smart investors take advantage. Hopefully Wall Street was watching. I have a friend who sells securities and he asks me about Bitcoin every time I see him. He says it's talked about quite often in the trader circles, and they are very interested. The sense I get from him is that the risk and lack of regulated exchanges makes them nervous to invest, also the tech is very hard to understand.




> I'm starting to wish China would ban BTC at this point so we could grow naturally.  The stupid rumors are worse than actual news.
> 
> I'm also just pissed I don't have more funds ready...lol


Me too. This is very likely the final chance at cheap coins. In a year, "cheap" may have a new relative value.




> Bitfinex is an interesting exchange if you're feeling frisky.  Can trade on Margin and deal with USD Swaps.


Plus you can store your coins there to lend to margin traders for crazy interest rates. It's risky, but when demand is high you can earn returns you'd never see on traditional investments.

----------


## muh_roads

Looks like a bull trap is forming on LTC.

amonasro, you play in a band?

Does just holding the coins there earn interest?

edit: oh $#@! me no.  swaps for BTC.  That is gonna gox itself.

----------


## lotsOfCake

Suffering from unexpected (for me anyway) turns in ltc, but then i look at this
https://www.tradingview.com/x/kpMvlGEj/
and i feel ok :-P

Wonder what will happen when additional trade tools and safety measures are added to the crypto ecosystem. Should result in more stable btc rates.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Suffering from unexpected (for me anyway) turns in ltc, but then i look at this
> https://www.tradingview.com/x/kpMvlGEj/
> and i feel ok :-P
> 
> Wonder what will happen when additional trade tools and safety measures are added to the crypto ecosystem. Should result in more stable btc rates.


Wow, I gotta say I was freaked out by that drop because I thought consolidation had already occurred, but when I look at your graph, it looks like it's right where it's supposed to be.  It seems like everyone underestimated the time it would take for this to occur, including pres.  It's okay, though, pres, you're still great.  

When I looked at the bitcoinwisdom charts and noticed the difference between the Gox post-consolidation and what I thought was post-consolidation this time, they just didn't match up and I figured something was wrong, but now it just looks like we had our timing off.

What I'm wondering now is whether it will continue to go lower.  Any thoughts?

----------


## muh_roads

> Wonder what will happen when additional trade tools and safety measures are added to the crypto ecosystem. Should result in more stable btc rates.


Check out Ethereum.

https://www.ethereum.org/

The lead guy is one of the founders of Bitcoin Magazine.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I gotta say I'm being really cautious about this.  Part of me thinks newbitech is right and this is going to crash down to under $100.  I would advise people not to count on it going up any time soon.

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## Dianne

> 


LOL, very creative.

----------


## muh_roads

Dogecoin bag transfer in progress.  I put more in @ 0110

----------


## muh_roads

> LOL, very creative.


He's got a lot of funny ones.  He has absolutely no concerns, ever.




Shall I scoop for you?

----------


## amonasro

> amonasro, you play in a band?


Not exactly. My username will give you a clue, though 




> I gotta say I'm being really cautious about this.  Part of me thinks newbitech is right and this is going to crash down to under $100.  I would advise people not to count on it going up any time soon.


I can't see it at $100 unless there is a flaw in the protocol. Which there is not. Just a lot of fear and uncertainty overshadowing the good news. 

Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful. These are the cheap coins everyone's been waiting for, IMO.

----------


## muh_roads

Opera singer.  Much wow.  amirite?

edit: Seriously though, I'm impressed.  I feel shallow sitting behind computers all the time...lol

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Get ready for take off, folks. The volatility has been crazy over the past handful of hours and it looks like the bulls are coming back.

----------


## muh_roads

> Get ready for take off, folks. The volatility has been crazy over the past handful of hours and it looks like the bulls are coming back.


If you want to play the market, I'd say sell after the next up-tick...maybe back to 550?  April 15th is a ways off and these rumors could keep things bouncing.  Honestly I think pres' Red Dragon Part B bot or whatever it's called should be used right now.  Isn't that the bot that you're supposed to use after a bubble pops and the dead cat bounces?

Also when I say "sell" or "play the market", I am only referring to a small percentage.  I like my coins too much.  I am only playing with 10-15%.

----------


## muh_roads

I'm going to start converting to LTC.  I think BTC-e adding CNY markets is going to stir some excitement.

----------


## Dianne

Do you guys think it is safe to buy btc in the mid 400's, or do the charts appear as though btc going to drop some more?     It is so hard to speculate.

----------


## newbitech

> Not exactly. My username will give you a clue, though 
> 
> 
> 
> *I can't see it at $100 unless there is a flaw in the protocol.* *Which there is not.* Just a lot of fear and uncertainty overshadowing the good news. 
> 
> Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful. These are the cheap coins everyone's been waiting for, IMO.


But we know the protocol is not flawless.  There is also a lot of euphoria and hysteria overshadowing the bad news.  

There is nothing cheap about $460 for something that AT BEST can purchase exactly $460 worth of goods at SELECT retailers.  It's a straight up 1:1 exchange at this point IF you are able to convert before the price lurches one way or the other when some speculator makes a new market.

There is tremendous downside risk in converting to BTC, that much is the least uncertain part of the investment.  No one really knows what the upside is outside of 3 bubbles that saw early adopters get rich quick.  

Technically, the chart is in a huge descending triangle pattern.  

We have weekly increasing volume on decreasing price.

We have the weekly 7/30 MA cross looming which hasn't happened in the history of this security.

Technically, the last line of major support on the daily is 400 which happens to be the base of the descending triangle.

IF the price confidently with increasing volume breaks 400 support at the not so coincidental time as the 7/30 MA cross, there really is nothing technically stopping the knife from stabbing all the way back to at least the last bubble peak.  My guess would be that momentum would carry all the way down to stable trading range that was establish after the last bubble, somewhere between 60 and 120.  

If you apply a time based formula, you could find what I call the octave.  You'd be looking a stable growth snap shot range right now in a band between about 120 - 160.  That is about where it should be trading based on previous analysis of a stable growth rate with modest market saturation prediction of 15 years at an adoption rate of 6% year over year.  

The fact is, BTC adoption is not growing exponentially because there are flaws, bugs, and generally conceptual problems that have yet to be overcome in the overall eco system.  

Exponential price growth is amazing if you have good timing, but ultimately if you want to see the technology succeed and be an alternative to banks and state fiat, you'll be happy when the day comes that no one gets rich off of trading the security that backs the "money".

----------


## amonasro

> Opera singer.  Much wow.  amirite?
> 
> edit: Seriously though, I'm impressed.  I feel shallow sitting behind computers all the time...lol


ding ding! Don't feel shallow, the performing world is extremely shallow  I love working with computers because it feels real. 




> Do you guys think it is safe to buy btc in the mid 400's, or do the charts appear as though btc going to drop some more?     It is so hard to speculate.


So hard to say. The market is very bearish so it *could* go lower, especially if China sells off again on more bad news. The BTCe news might give us a bump, though. Calling bottoms is much harder than calling tops.

----------


## newbitech

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...ding_triangle_




> The descending triangle is a bearish formation that usually forms during a downtrend as a continuation pattern. There are instances when descending triangles form as reversal patterns at the end of an uptrend, but they are typically continuation patterns. Regardless of where they form, descending triangles are *bearish patterns* that indicate distribution.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

There is an upside here, for those who have been holding, which is that nothing has discredited BTC yet, so, at some point, the market will eventually stabilize and those who have turned bearish can make back what they've lost.

----------


## Dianne

The problem we have with all this, is that is so new.   I don't think anyone can really predict what will happen next.    I poo poo'ed it when the son was asking me to buy in at $12.00 btc.     Now I'm begging to buy at $450.     BTC was manipulated so quickly from 12.00 to 100.00; then to 1,000. each then back down to 800., 700., 600., 500., 400.   Definitely some big growing pains.     And of course, first question is who/what is manipulating btc?

----------


## muh_roads

People should stop looking at USD and look at how they can grow their BTC count once they are in.  There is definitely opportunity in alt-coins.  Your gain there offsets any mistakes you thought you made by buying too high.  There is BTC making opportunities with alts and it's a lot of fun.

The USD spot price is irrelevant if your goal is a bigger piece of the 21m btc pot.

If another coin takes the crown, you will have been diversified by then anyway and will probably own it.

----------


## Dianne

> http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...ding_triangle_


LOL, didn't understand that chart at all ...  Possibly one too many glasses of wine..    I'll rinse and repeat, take a look tomorrow lol.

----------


## Dianne

> People should stop looking at USD and look at how they can grow their BTC count once they are in.  There is definitely opportunity in alt-coins.  Your gain there offsets any mistakes you thought you made by buying too high.  There is BTC making opportunities with alts and it's a lot of fun.
> 
> The USD spot price is irrelevant if your goal is a bigger piece of the 21m btc pot.
> 
> If another coin takes the crown, you will have been diversified by then anyway and will probably own it.


I was thinking about buying ltc with one btc...  sigh ....  just can't do it.   Actually over the previous two weeks, there was a good bit of money to be made in NVC.    Each day it sunk to approximately 6.10 and rose to 6.70 or 6.80.   With volume, there was some money to be made there...   Now NVC died, and seems to be staying dead, at least for the short term.

----------


## muh_roads

> I was thinking about buying ltc with one btc...  sigh ....  just can't do it.   Actually over the previous two weeks, there was a good bit of money to be made in NVC.    Each day it sunk to approximately 6.10 and rose to 6.70 or 6.80.   With volume, there was some money to be made there...   Now NVC died, and seems to be staying dead, at least for the short term.


When I say "play alts", I kinda mean you should also do research of course and not go with just any $#@!coin / penny_dump_coin out there.  Novacoin had some weird old-school elites from early btc and ltc days involved.  The safe alts seem to be LTC, NMC, PPC that are the most diverse.

The jury is out on Doge, yet.  They sure like giving to charity though.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...ding_triangle_


What makes you so sure they're going to cross, or that support is going to break at $400?

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## GBC Gold Backed Coin

> I was thinking about buying ltc with one btc...  sigh ....  just can't do it.   Actually over the previous two weeks, there was a good bit of money to be made in NVC.    Each day it sunk to approximately 6.10 and rose to 6.70 or 6.80.   With volume, there was some money to be made there...   Now NVC died, and seems to be staying dead, at least for the short term.


Watch out for GBC (Gold Backed Coins). They have a backed value (one tenth of an ounce of gold per coin) and offer a price guarantee for investors.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Watch out for GBC (Gold Backed Coins). They have a backed value (one tenth of an ounce of gold per coin) and offer a price guarantee for investors.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a scam.  Price guarantee for investors?  There are no guarantees in the investment world.  You can't guarantee any returns, not to mention explain how it's gold-backed.  Didn't they try that with bitcoins?  

Also, it's only available on the Ripple network.  Who even uses that?

----------


## newbitech

> What makes you so sure they're going to cross, or that support is going to break at $400?


It's an inflection point.  Just a simple observation about the price of bitcoin.  It's spent a lot more time below 400 than above 400.  I am not so sure it should have ever risen about it in the first place.

Prices I think need to be established.  A time series.  We know by now that the price bubble wasn't going to last.  In time the price may establish itself at the peak levels.  But that doesn't happen overnight.  

So I think for the health of the security, the price needs to get back down to earth in tune with what the security can actually DO for the people who hold it.  A focus on fundamentals should take over as the price stabilizes and folks holding the security look for ways to put it to use outside of trading it back and forth with each other hoping for fiat profits.

----------


## Dianne

> I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a scam.  Price guarantee for investors?  There are no guarantees in the investment world.  You can't guarantee any returns, not to mention explain how it's gold-backed.  Didn't they try that with bitcoins?  
> 
> Also, it's only available on the Ripple network.  Who even uses that?


Also going out on a limb to say I think I would have felt a lot more comfortable if the GBC had been introduced by a long time RPF member, rather than a new person to the forum.

----------


## newbitech

> 



Yes so now you are going to analyze the log scale.  That changes things, you know that right?





> *Trend:* In order to qualify as a continuation pattern, an established trend should exist. However, because the descending triangle is definitely a bearish pattern, the length and duration of the current trend is not as important. *The robustness of the formation is paramount.*

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's an inflection point.  Just a simple observation about the price of bitcoin.  It's spent a lot more time below 400 than above 400.  I am not so sure it should have ever risen about it in the first place.
> 
> Prices I think need to be established.  A time series.  We know by now that the price bubble wasn't going to last.  In time the price may establish itself at the peak levels.  But that doesn't happen overnight.  
> 
> So I think for the health of the security, the price needs to get back down to earth in tune with what the security can actually DO for the people who hold it.  A focus on fundamentals should take over as the price stabilizes and folks holding the security look for ways to put it to use outside of trading it back and forth with each other hoping for fiat profits.


I see.  I don't think it's ready to do that, honestly.  It's really all speculation at this point, but the fundamentals are still good, better than ever, in fact, and come to think of it, a longer consolidation phase after the last bubble was expected due to its rapid rise and consistently higher prices during the consolidation period relative to past bubbles.  Support at $400 is very strong, and it is having difficulty even breaking through $438 right now.  It's survived a lot, and nothing has really discredited it yet.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Also going out on a limb to say I think I would have felt a lot more comfortable if the GBC had been introduced by a long time RPF member, rather than a new person to the forum.


Exactly.  It's important to be able to spot a scam before you're sucked in.  This poster doesn't even talk about the fundamentals of the coin and rather focuses on how readily it can be accessed for investors.  Total scam.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes so now you are going to analyze the log scale.  That changes things, you know that right?


I'm not sure what you mean.  Could you explain that?

----------


## newbitech

> I'm not sure what you mean.  Could you explain that?


The chart is semi-logarithmic.  The price ticks are equidistant based on percentage.  So a move from 10 to 100 would be the same as a move from 100 to 1000.  

The analysis which produced the chart has a couple of misrepresentations.  

1.) A pennant pattern is a symmetrical triangle.  There isn't a "falling" pennant pattern.  A flag would be horizontal as well. 

2.) The chart doesn't show volume.  In flag and pennant patterns, volume is important for validating the trend (as in most trend patterns).




> *Volume:* Volume should be heavy during the advance or decline that forms the flagpole. Heavy volume provides legitimacy for the sudden and sharp move that creates the flagpole. An expansion of volume on the resistance (support) break lends credence to the validity of the formation and the likelihood of continuation.


So yes this is an interesting view of the percentage price moves.  I do spot the rising trend in this chart and I do recognize the patterns.  I don't however give this analysis more weight than the arithmetic chart analysis that shows volume and linear price history. 

I believe proper trend analysis and pattern spotting needs to be done in light of other indicators. Indicators which are arithmetic based price and not log based price.

----------


## newbitech

just to give another quick example.

Consider this weekly move for a moment. 

The week of Nov. 27 2013 on stamp,
Volume 192k - price range 795-1163.  (this was the peak week)

and

The week of Dec. 25 2013 on stamp
Volume 88.2k - price range 677-764.


The log scale makes those 2 weeks seem somewhat insignificant from each other.  BUT,

The math scale makes it obvious that there was very little interest in buying back in at the peak.  The math scale shows complete buy exhaustion.  The log scale makes it appear that the bounce off the low would be the stage for the next move up.  

It was obvious on the math scale that there would be a dead cat bounce.  The log scale said buy and hold at that 650-750 range.  

Log scale is probably helpful for understanding log term market psychology after its already happened.   I just find that math scale is more useful for finding entry and exit points.  Especially at inflection where I believe we are now.

----------


## Suzu

> I just find that math scale is more useful for finding entry and exit points.  Especially at inflection where I believe we are now.


What do you mean by "inflection"?

----------


## Dianne

> I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a scam.  Price guarantee for investors?  There are no guarantees in the investment world.  You can't guarantee any returns, not to mention explain how it's gold-backed.  Didn't they try that with bitcoins?  
> 
> Also, it's only available on the Ripple network.  Who even uses that?


Paladin reported on another thread, the GBC wallet is malware so hopefully a Mod can remove links.

----------


## amonasro

It's my observation that digital currency markets move more quickly than traditional markets. While patterns on the 6/12/24 hour charts have more significance (as daily and weekly patterns do in traditional markets), digital currencies can be moved around much more quickly than fiat. Add in the lower market cap and you'll see valid reversal patterns appear on the 15/30/60 minute charts. Most of these seem to be double/triple tops or variations thereof. Continuation patterns in these smaller timeframes are difficult to trade, but watch the volume closely for clues as to which direction it will break out. If there is more volume during the upswings of a triangle/pennant/channel pattern, the probability increases for an upward breakout. The converse is also true, indicating weak buy pressure. In these markets, as a general rule, no buy pressure equals down. 

Some patterns also have their own variations. For example the head & shoulders, the most reliable trend reversal pattern--you'll see it everywhere if you look, in both inverted (indicating downtrend reversal) and right-side-up forms (indicating uptrend reversal)--is supposed to occur on declining volume. Often you'll see it appear in such a way that the head has equal volume to the left shoulder. This might indicate emotions running higher than usual, which is to be expected given historical and expected rate of returns. During strong trends the neck/support line of these reversals can also be quite slanted, often causing confusion where the neck and shoulders are, or if it's simply a double top. These patterns are all variations on a theme, though, so interpretation is pretty subjective.

All that said, I've been watching these markets closely for about a year. Most of the time I use the 6 or 12 hour chart as the patterns generally are more valid with less noise. I do believe the bottom is pretty much in for this final capitulation. I bought a handful more coins at $450. Although we may go lower, it won't be for long based on the performance and measurements of the final capitulation event from June/July 2013. More bad news out of China could trigger another selloff, but many who decided to sell did so already. The bears are running out of ammo, so to speak. If any of you are using Coinbase, they hit their limit yesterday and may do so today if buying pressure continues. This is pretty common when strong downtrends run out of steam and bulls decide it's time to buy low. However I would not be surprised if we see another leg down.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's my observation that digital currency markets move more quickly than traditional markets. While patterns on the 6/12/24 hour charts have more significance (as daily and weekly patterns do in traditional markets), digital currencies can be moved around much more quickly than fiat. Add in the lower market cap and you'll see valid reversal patterns appear on the 15/30/60 minute charts. Most of these seem to be double/triple tops or variations thereof. Continuation patterns in these smaller timeframes are difficult to trade, but watch the volume closely for clues as to which direction it will break out. If there is more volume during the upswings of a triangle/pennant/channel pattern, the probability increases for an upward breakout. The converse is also true, indicating weak buy pressure. In these markets, as a general rule, no buy pressure equals down. 
> 
> Some patterns also have their own variations. For example the head & shoulders, the most reliable trend reversal pattern--you'll see it everywhere if you look, in both inverted (indicating downtrend reversal) and right-side-up forms (indicating uptrend reversal)--is supposed to occur on declining volume. Often you'll see it appear in such a way that the head has equal volume to the left shoulder. This might indicate emotions running higher than usual, which is to be expected given historical and expected rate of returns. During strong trends the neck/support line of these reversals can also be quite slanted, often causing confusion where the neck and shoulders are, or if it's simply a double top. These patterns are all variations on a theme, though, so interpretation is pretty subjective.
> 
> All that said, I've been watching these markets closely for about a year. Most of the time I use the 6 or 12 hour chart as the patterns generally are more valid with less noise. I do believe the bottom is pretty much in for this final capitulation. I bought a handful more coins at $450. Although we may go lower, it won't be for long based on the performance and measurements of the final capitulation event from June/July 2013. More bad news out of China could trigger another selloff, but many who decided to sell did so already. The bears are running out of ammo, so to speak. If any of you are using Coinbase, they hit their limit yesterday and may do so today if buying pressure continues. This is pretty common when strong downtrends run out of steam and bulls decide it's time to buy low. However I would not be surprised if we see another leg down.


Interesting analysis.  Thanks!  

Here's a +rep

----------


## GBC Gold Backed Coin

> Exactly.  It's important to be able to spot a scam before you're sucked in.  This poster doesn't even talk about the fundamentals of the coin and rather focuses on how readily it can be accessed for investors.  Total scam.


i would like to understand your point of view, mate. could you please explain to me, why you are saying that this is a scam? did you inform yourself on GBC's website? did you read through it? can you present some arguments?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> i would like to understand your point of view, mate. could you please explain to me, why you are saying that this is a scam? did you inform yourself on GBC's website? did you read through it? can you present some arguments?


I don't need to visit the website.  I could, but I simply don't want to.  You can't guarantee any prices in a free market.  That's a big red flag.

----------


## Dianne

> i would like to understand your point of view, mate. could you please explain to me, why you are saying that this is a scam? did you inform yourself on GBC's website? did you read through it? can you present some arguments?


A respected member of RPF already reported the wallet was malware.    You're a noob on the forums, although we don't mind that.   But a noob offering an alt coin, with a malware infested wallet leaves many to suspect ill intent.

Shouldn't be hard to figure out.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I recommend you look at this in the original image.  This was posted before the candles started matching up beautifully with the trendline on the chart.

----------


## newbitech

> I recommend you look at this in the original image.  This was posted before the candles started matching up beautifully with the trendline on the chart.


Ok so this is an hourly chart.  Switch it over to the daily chart and watch up move get turned back at around 3300.  

Where you see the wishful thinking in that call is the second up arrow on the hourly chart breaking the longer term trend.  

He got the first up arrow correct where it gets turned back hourly.  His first down arrow stops at some mysterious short term support level. 

Basically what he drew was a head and shoulders reversal pattern.  BUT again, looking at the volume in the moves, the left should and head are not supported. 

Good guess tho.

edit, just look at the volume direction and price direction. 

Price up Volume down.

Price down Volume up.  

Pretty much any time scale shows this.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

The long term trend is still up.  I'm guessing you're still talking about the post-bubble trend.  Also, do you take into account the fact that volume has been rising long-term with the price, even as it fluctuates?

Also, you'll notice the price on recent drops is higher than the previous low of $400, but the volume is also lower with each sharp decline.  This is a bullish signal, right?

----------


## amonasro

It was pretty cool watching the bottom form on Huobi last night. Looking at the 15 minute chart from about 6pm yesterday to, well, now, and you'll see a nice rally with strong buying support. I saw large buys on Bitstamp as well, squeezing out many short positions adding additional fuel to the rally. 

After the double final capitulation event (which was not seen in any previous bubbles) I think the market is exhausted. First we had the downfall of Gox which caused a month-long, fear-laden downtrend, then we had China rumors and legal uncertainty causing another bear market and ultimately a double cascading effect which we are now in the bottom of. China rumors still pervade but people who understand know that nothing has changed about the Bitcoin protocol and there is a sea of good news on the horizon. The perfectly timed Onion-esque article on Coindesk, http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-...ly-bans-china/ , is pretty indicative of how many of us feel. 

It's like, "China, pull it together man. Sh** or get off the pot."

Going forward, and zooming out to the daily chart, I see an inverse head & shoulders reversal pattern forming, similar in size and scope to the one seen in July 2013. Given the timeframe, we may not be out of the woods until mid-April with 540-560 being a sticking point as we complete the head. There is also a small but real possibility that the head falls deeper, retesting the lows. After we pull out of that, though, the right shoulder may be smaller than usual if bullish sentiment continues to increase. This means no more sub $500 coins, ever. This is it, folks. If the bubble pattern holds true (and it has been), we are in for an exciting summer.

----------


## GBC Gold Backed Coin

> I don't need to visit the website.  I could, but I simply don't want to.  You can't guarantee any prices in a free market.  That's a big red flag.


I see, so you are a believer. ;-) 
well, the guarantee concerns the backing by gold and not the price itself. we are depositing gold and we are selling gold to buy back coins sometimes in order to stabilize the price if it drops below the current value of the gold backing. we do that to serve our investors' interest. so maybe the term "price guarantee" caused the misunderstanding. anyhow, stabilizing the price may also be a red flag, isn't?

----------


## Dianne

> I see, so you are a believer. ;-) 
> well, the guarantee concerns the backing by gold and not the price itself. we are depositing gold and we are selling gold to buy back coins sometimes in order to stabilize the price if it drops below the current value of the gold backing. we do that to serve our investors' interest. so maybe the term "price guarantee" caused the misunderstanding. anyhow, stabilizing the price may also be a red flag, isn't?


Can you explain the malware in the wallet?

----------


## newbitech

> The long term trend is still up.  I'm guessing you're still talking about the post-bubble trend.  Also, do you take into account the fact that volume has been rising long-term with the price, even as it fluctuates?
> 
> Also, you'll notice the price on recent drops is higher than the previous low of $400, but the volume is also lower with each sharp decline.  This is a bullish signal, right?



Well I guess if you want to consider bubbles as trends then you may have a point.  I will grant you that the USD price of bitcoins has risen since it's inception as a security.  I will also grant you that trade volume has also increased over time as more people have become aware of security and the different exchanges that allow trade.  

And yes, support hasn't been broken, however you are wrong about lower volume on the retest of the lows.  It's the opposite.  Each retest of the low following the ATH has been on stronger volume.  This goes back to the first bubble last april.  

We've had 1 green week in the last 12 weeks.  Volume this week has surpassed volume in that week.  The downward move is strengthening, not weakening.

----------


## XTreat

Listening to you guys debate has only strengthened my position that investing using a dollar cost averaging method is the preferable strategy for 90% or more of investors.

----------


## amonasro

Fear shaking the markets today, but not me. Will we break $400? It feels a lot like the December crash. Dump after dump until morale improves

----------


## newbitech

> Fear shaking the markets today, but not me. Will we break $400? It feels a lot like the December crash. Dump after dump until morale improves



There is about 5 million bucks standing between a sub 200 crash and where it is right now.  I'd be betting that most of that comes off the table if/when 400 is tested.

----------


## fatjohn

> There is about 5 million bucks standing between a sub 200 crash and where it is right now.  I'd be betting that most of that comes off the table if/when 400 is tested.


Why are you people doing TA in usd when last weeks volume on bitstamp and btce combined was a meager 350k compared to the 1 mil traded on huobi and okcoin each! 

400 dollar is insignificant. battle at time of writing is 2600 cny and broken as I write this
Possible floor is at 2120 cny or 2000 cny or otherwise gox high of 266.

Ceiling is at 3600 cny

----------


## amonasro

Last time sentiment was this low (first China ban) was in December down to $380 very briefly. Now we're at what, the fourth ban? Big psychological barrier there, then we can discuss $266, though we probably won't need to.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I think we may be finding a bottom right now.  Provided it doesn't completely fall through, it should stay in the $420-$450 range for at least a couple of days if it's anything like the low point from the last bubble.  If I'm right, then it will be almost a week or thereabouts before anything significant happens.

----------


## lotsOfCake

I just bought in to litecoin a tiny bit more, just on principle.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I just bought in to litecoin a tiny bit more, just on principle.


What principle is that?  The principle of losing money?  If I were you, I would stay the hell away from litecoin at least until the next BTC bubble.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

My Illuminati bros say they may test upper 300's today, not sure yet, as seeing how much buy pressure holds up. Looking like should be about to breach 200's in a week or so. 

All going according to plan. Also, told me Hillary was elected by them to win in 2016 and she already agreed to outright ban of crypto except their new coin. 

Good Times.

----------


## Dianne

> My Illuminati bros say they may test upper 300's today, not sure yet, as seeing how much buy pressure holds up. Looking like should be about to breach 200's in a week or so. 
> 
> All going according to plan. Also, told me Hillary was elected by them to win in 2016 and she already agreed to outright ban of crypto except their new coin. 
> 
> Good Times.


They are probably right about Hillary, when you have RINO's like Ann Coulter saying Mitt Romney the only man for the job in 2016.    Thought she meant blow job, but apparently in her hallucinogenic state, she believes Mitt Romney the man to beat Clinton lmao ...     After all, he has a stellar track record.

----------


## newbitech

weekly chart on stamp.  

compare the 3 candles that tested/are testing 400.  which one looks different?  how do you read this?  and why?

a clue, this past week was the lowest close since pre-bubble.

----------


## amonasro

> I think we may be finding a bottom right now.  Provided it doesn't completely fall through, it should stay in the $420-$450 range for at least a couple of days if it's anything like the low point from the last bubble.  If I'm right, then it will be almost a week or thereabouts before anything significant happens.


I agree. This could and probably will drag out for a week. 400 could be tested if things get panicky. I was looking at the charts last night and thinking, "If we shot up now, the head would be much too small--it wouldn't look right." Also, as newbitech pointed out, the volume isn't there yet. The big buyers are waiting though, watching, and once we shoot up it will be fast and furious with mostly daily green candles, as seen in 2013 and 2012's final capitulations. It will be fun to watch... one of the melt-your-face-off type rallies we all know and love. That is, *if*... I don't like to speak in absolutes.




> What principle is that?  The principle of losing money?  If I were you, I would stay the hell away from litecoin at least until the next BTC bubble.


Hehe, I still have a LTC sell order at .03 on BTCe. I think it will be a while before it gets filled.

----------


## Dianne

> I agree. This could and probably will drag out for a week. 400 could be tested if things get panicky. I was looking at the charts last night and thinking, "If we shot up now, the head would be much too small--it wouldn't look right." Also, as newbitech pointed out, the volume isn't there yet. The big buyers are waiting though, watching, and once we shoot up it will be fast and furious with mostly daily green candles, as seen in 2013 and 2012's final capitulations. It will be fun to watch... one of the melt-your-face-off type rallies we all know and love. That is, *if*... I don't like to speak in absolutes.
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe, I still have a LTC sell order at .03 on BTCe. I think it will be a while before it gets filled.


395.00 on Huobi right now.

----------


## amonasro

> weekly chart on stamp.  
> 
> compare the 3 candles that tested/are testing 400.  which one looks different?  how do you read this?  and why?
> 
> a clue, this past week was the lowest close since pre-bubble.


I see an incredibly oversold RSI.

I know that we don't agree on this point, but nothing about the Bitcoin protocol is broken or has changed. It's nice to muse about improvements or possible shortcomings and why we think it won't work, but that results in confirmation bias. The market doesn't really care what our opinions are, and always reflects the price people are willing to pay. It has brought us this far to these prices with the protocol in its current form, regardless of what the public thinks. In fact, the dev team recently released beta 0.9, millions of venture capital money is flowing in, Wall Street is interested, businesses are adopting, Litecoin is growing, and 500,000 coins are basically out of circulation for at least a year thanks to Gox (good news for the price). There is plenty of good news for a bright future, in my opinion, despite the fear about China taking us to pre-bubble levels.

In my music career I have faced so much rejection that sometimes I wonder why I even bother. It wears on you, slowly breaking you down. But I have a long-term outlook on my success... each time I'm rejected I grow a thicker skin, improve on my shortcomings and get back at it. All of these scary dips are essentially wearing people down, transferring coins to those who have a long-term view on cryptocurrencies with a thick enough skin to weather the storms that will come. If the weak hands don't believe in what they represent, they will distribute to those who do.

I think a lot of people lose sight and let greed get in the way. We don't need them holding bitcoins. They are not a get-rich-quick scheme, although there is money to be made here. If the Chinese don't want what Bitcoin represents, they will sell and life will go on. Satoshi summed up what crypto represents nicely:




> The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust. Banks must be trusted to hold our money and transfer it electronically, but they lend it out in waves of credit bubbles with barely a fraction in reserve. We have to trust them with our privacy, trust them not to let identity thieves drain our accounts. Their massive overhead costs make micropayments impossible.
> 
> A generation ago, multi-user time-sharing computer systems had a similar problem. Before strong encryption, users had to rely on password protection to secure their files, placing trust in the system administrator to keep their information private. Privacy could always be overridden by the admin based on his judgment call weighing the principle of privacy against other concerns, or at the behest of his superiors. Then strong encryption became available to the masses, and trust was no longer required. Data could be secured in a way that was physically impossible for others to access, no matter for what reason, no matter how good the excuse, no matter what. Its time we had the same thing for money. With e-currency based on cryptographic proof, without the need to trust a third party middleman, money can be secure and transactions effortless.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 395.00 on Huobi right now.


It's in yuan, of course, so I'm not sure exactly what bearing the dollar price has on them, if any.  They may have levels of support and resistance that translate to slightly different dollar amounts.

----------


## Dianne

Chit, I just had my buy order filled $10.50 on LTC ... I was too late to stop it.      I think I will shut down btc-e for two or three months, and not look, lolol.

----------


## Dianne

> It's in yuan, of course, so I'm not sure exactly what bearing the dollar price has on them, if any.  They may have levels of support and resistance that translate to slightly different dollar amounts.


Someone on another thread tonight hinted a group was going to test $400., and bring to upper $300.'s.    They were successful on Huobi, but not btc-e  (YET !).   

I bought btc this past week at $550., and a few days later at $450 ...   so I should have known that would be the kiss of death for btc.     I have the worst luck, timing awful when it comes to investing in anything.    So, guess my next buy in will be at $350.

----------


## amonasro

So who wants to break out the booze? How low will we go? I'm opening a bottle of hard cider, kind of like the opposite of champagne 

edit: no one knows the bottom, Dianne, but buying in a bear market is the right thing to do.

----------


## KCIndy

> I bought btc this past week at $550., and a few days later at $450 ...   so I should have known that would be the kiss of death for btc.     I have the worst luck, timing awful when it comes to investing in anything.    So, guess my next buy in will be at $350.



Don't feel bad, Dianne.  I bought in at 480 thinking it couldn't go much lower.... so you've got company.  Now that I've spent my "expendable" fun money for the week, it'll probably drop to 240 and I'll be thinking, "I could have bought twice as much if I had waited!"

----------


## newbitech

> *I see an incredibly oversold RSI.*


go here 

https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=BITSTAMP%3ABTCUSD

turn on Relative Strength Indicator and Stoch RSI.  Bitcoin Wisdom shows the Stoch RSI.

RSI is oversold/overbought on 30/70.  You don't get that setup with Stoch RSI.  RSI on the weekly is middle of the road.  It's touching oversold on the daily, but just barely. 

RSI Stoch is a fast oscillator for RSI.  It's and indicator of an indicator.

Perhaps what may be more telling is we are seeing a marked shift in the accumulation distribution trend.  It looks like for the first time since BTC has been trading on Bitstamp we are starting to see money flow going out of the security.

----------


## amonasro

^^gotcha. Still, oversold when comparing past data from final capitulations. $380 is the real support, if we break below that, then we can talk 

DOGE breaking below 100 satoshis. Buy target is ~80 according to the double top reversal. It may jump back to 100 if the pattern repeats a fourth time.

----------


## newbitech

> ^^gotcha. Still, oversold when comparing past data from final capitulations. $380 is the real support, if we break below that, then we can talk 
> 
> DOGE breaking below 100 satoshis. Buy target is ~80 according to the double top reversal. It may jump back to 100 if the pattern repeats a fourth time.


Not to nitpick you but there is a slight slope to the bottom of the triangle.  This was the Nov 18 2013 intra day low.  It was the crash the day after the huge 200 USD move up.

Anyways, you have 2 more points on that line.  378, 382, and 400.  That sets you right around 410 for last line in the sand support.  You really don't want to see it touch 410 if you are holding long term anywhere above 410 and want to cash out before the price corrects or the USD crashes.

----------


## muh_roads

pres' Dragon Slayer 2.0 is buying aggressively hard right now in the 10.80's (simulated trading).  I'll keep you guys updated.

I'm also running another with RSI Stoch & SAR in the code.  No idea what you guys are talking about but since it was mentioned I'm gonna fire it up and see what happens.  I think it should only be used when crashing...but not 100% sure on that.

----------


## muh_roads

...aaaand it just sold @ 10.58 for a bit of a loss...lol

I guess it wants to wait till she bleeds out a bit more before banging away with green dildo's again.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> What principle is that?  The principle of losing money?  If I were you, I would stay the hell away from litecoin at least until the next BTC bubble.


Well, on "double down. And on "buy on red candle". And no it doesn't match with market sentiment at all, I am aware.

----------


## Dianne

> Don't feel bad, Dianne.  I bought in at 480 thinking it couldn't go much lower.... so you've got company.  Now that I've spent my "expendable" fun money for the week, it'll probably drop to 240 and I'll be thinking, "I could have bought twice as much if I had waited!"


Let's be encouraged by amonasro's comment that buying in a bear market is the right thing to do.     I am somewhat encouraged this morning that  btc-e is not willing to dip below $400.00 without putting up a good fight.    I do dread the pending blood bath this weekend though.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well, on "double down. And on "buy on red candle". And no it doesn't match with market sentiment at all, I am aware.


Unless you're planning on shorting, LTC has quite a way down to go.

I guess I should note that I'm really talking about LTC/BTC.  Litecoin may very well go up, just slower.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Someone on another thread tonight hinted a group was going to test $400., and bring to upper $300.'s.    They were successful on Huobi, but not btc-e  (YET !).   
> 
> I bought btc this past week at $550., and a few days later at $450 ...   so I should have known that would be the kiss of death for btc.     I have the worst luck, timing awful when it comes to investing in anything.    So, guess my next buy in will be at $350.


My understanding is that the reason we tend to buy at the wrong time is because we behave just like the rest of the market, in that the market can basically predict the times at which we have our hopes and fears and reacts accordingly.  We feel the best when the market is just about to run out of buying pressure, and we feel our worst just when the market is about to run out of selling pressure because we are human and we behave like most other humans, generally.  The goal is to do the opposite of that with the help of some technical indicators.  In the words of Michael Jackson, just remember to always think twice.  I really should have known better than to buy at $493 last time, but I didn't think twice.  It was just so predictable, and now I'm kicking myself for missing the real lows.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

On a positive note, the overwhelming sentiment on tradingview.com seems to be that the bears are finally out of fuel and we are at the point of a low-risk entry point.  There will still be a lot of fear as bitcoin slowly moves away from the lows, but it should recover in time.

----------


## Dianne

> On a positive note, the overwhelming sentiment on tradingview.com seems to be that the bears are finally out of fuel and we are at the point of a low-risk entry point.  There will still be a lot of fear as bitcoin slowly moves away from the lows, but it should recover in time.


That makes sense.   Are you still in ltc as well?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That makes sense.   Are you still in ltc as well?


Nope.  I think the downtrend has already started.  LTC/BTC is looking bearish long-term due to the clear break below EMA 135, but that's not to say you can't use the LTC swings with something like pres's dragon slayer bot to make a nice profit.  I may start using a LTC bot once we establish a true BTC bull.

Also, on the 3d chart you can see the 45 MA crossing below the 95 MA, at which point the price tries to stay with the 95 MA but makes a clear breakthrough.  This also explains the divergence in the 45 and 95 MAs on the 1w chart.

I'm starting to like this technical analysis thing.

----------


## newbitech

> Nope.  I think the downtrend has already started.  LTC/BTC is looking bearish long-term due to the clear break below EMA 135, but that's not to say you can't use the LTC swings with something like pres's dragon slayer bot to make a nice profit.  I may start using a LTC bot *once we establish a true BTC bull*.
> 
> Also, on the 3d chart you can see the 45 MA crossing below the 95 MA, at which point the price tries to stay with the 95 MA but makes a clear breakthrough.  This also explains the divergence in the 45 and 95 MAs on the 1w chart.
> 
> I'm starting to like this technical analysis thing.



So I got to thinking about this.  BTC Bull's apparently are all horn and no huff.  Given the fact that every time BTC has entered "Bull Market" it turns into an enormous spike like the tip of a bull horn.  

I think I might draw a picture like that.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So I got to thinking about this.  BTC Bull's apparently are all horn and no huff.  Given the fact that every time BTC has entered "Bull Market" it turns into an enormous spike like the tip of a bull horn.  
> 
> I think I might draw a picture like that.


Quit being a hater.  It looks like it's going to turn bullish this time, and who knows what will happen after that?  I'm certainly not claiming it's absolutely the future of money or free of risk, but it's worth a shot.

----------


## newbitech

> Quit being a hater.  It looks like it's going to turn bullish this time, and who knows what will happen after that?  I'm certainly not claiming it's absolutely the future of money or free of risk, but it's worth a shot.


It is what it is.

----------


## muh_roads

Having the worst luck lately.  Was out of town during the last LTC bull run to 034.  Now pres is out of town for the next 3 weeks while we go thru this red dragon turmoil.

----------


## muh_roads

> The chart is semi-logarithmic.  The price ticks are equidistant based on percentage.  So a move from 10 to 100 would be the same as a move from 100 to 1000.  
> 
> The analysis which produced the chart has a couple of misrepresentations.  
> 
> 1.) A pennant pattern is a symmetrical triangle.  There isn't a "falling" pennant pattern.  A flag would be horizontal as well. 
> 
> 2.) The chart doesn't show volume.  In flag and pennant patterns, volume is important for validating the trend (as in most trend patterns).
> 
> 
> ...


I think a simpler explanation is the chart I posted looks like it scaled things down on the y-axis if your pivot point is at the bottom.  (Pretending we're in an art program like maya or something)

Is that deceptive?  I thought the picture the way it is shows the "bubbles" from a different perspective.  That our trajectory is an upward s-curve based on supply & demand adoption.  We will have $#@! tons of volatility between each new attained level of course.  This is where those red dragon bots come in.

----------


## newbitech

> I think a simpler explanation is the chart I posted looks like it scaled things down on the y-axis if your pivot point is at the bottom.  (Pretending we're in an art program like maya or something)
> 
> Is that deceptive?  I thought the picture the way it is shows the "bubbles" from a different perspective.  That our trajectory is an upward s-curve based on supply & demand adoption.  We will have $#@! tons of volatility between each new attained level of course.  This is where those red dragon bots come in.


well yeah it's a log scale, the trend lines aren't really lines tho, they are curves.  It does show the bubbles from a different perspective but it's not much different than looking at the US debt in the log scale. 

No one is going to claim that curve is sustainable.  Right?

----------


## lotsOfCake

I'm just waiting for that moment where the market decides that "OK this is the bottom, right here", and we turn towards a longer uptrend.

Because if I knew perfectly when that was, i would buy back some LTC at that time (even if it might tank until the next bubble). If i knew.
Since I don't know, I have already bought. So I am betting on there being an upturn as the market flips.

So I'm waiting for an upturn. Might have to wait past the infamous April 15th, even if it is bull.

---------

Another thing; there are the repeating bubble patterns in BTC/USD. Some of them, back in 2012 and such, look different. They tank with red dragons to the pre-bubble prices. That's at the back of my mind sometimes when i look at the long-term bubble patterns. 

That said, I think crypto is here to stay, that the network effect is, well, in effect, and i think BTC is the most famous "brand name" in crypto.
So then I am thinking, what could possibly replace BTC ?
In terms of code quality, some of the best "open source ish" code comes from private corporations like Google sponsoring development for part of the code base (for example, Android based on Linux). It is just that:
1. a "privately owned source code" or even just "closed source code" wouldn't be trusted by crypto experts, and the opinions of crypto experts are starting to matter.
2. any coin that tries to profit from a major improvement... well, that part can be added to the Bitcoin source code (as long as they don't change the nature of the blockchain)

So yeah something better might come along and take over but, it is definitely not here yet, and hopefully we will be able to see it coming. No, i isn't embedding text in the blockchain, it isn't auto-mixing, it isn't Scrypt (+variants like lite, doge, ultra), it isn't primecoin, and it isn't mastercoin. They are only sidekicks. There will continue to be GPU-mined sidekick coins, and while we can make money on speculation in them, they will not take over the "dedicated hardware" mining market for BTC.

Anything that could threaten BTC's market position would have to have some revolutionary difference.

----

Anyway I think the red dragons will end, possibly with a spectacular event followed by relative stability and a single altcoin bubble followed by a long altcoin tank until the formation of the next bubble. Why? Because that's what happened in April 2013<->Nov 2014. That's all i got, the rest is guesstimation based on market indicators etc etc, like 5/11 Moving Averages on 1h candles of USD/BTC and USD/LTC. And others. 

The only thing that lets me make guesses about movement in LTC/BTC is;
When BTC was in the same phase of the bubble->burst->dragons->tank->low->bubble thing, LTC/BTC behaved a certain way at certain times. Such an even right now (within 2 weeks) seems likely.

TL;DR all i got is "guess what will happen nov2013->July2014, based on what happened April2013->Nov2013"

----------


## lotsOfCake

Just wanted to clarify the "spectacular event" thing, it sounded odd. 
Could be something like:
China bans bitcoin.
Some other big country bans bitcoin.
Bitcoin ATMs for buying(but not selling) bitcoin pops up all over U.S. (texas?)
U.S. makes some sort of federal law about bitcoin, positive or negative.
Some country that is easy to trade with officially adopts Bitcoin for some purpose or other.

Any of those would make a strong impact on the market. I'll be watching Bitcoin related news for the months to come :-> And holding.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Having the worst luck lately.  Was out of town during the last LTC bull run to 034.  Now pres is out of town for the next 3 weeks while we go thru this red dragon turmoil.


I was wondering where pres went.  I was afraid he had quit the thread because he was wrong about the charts.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> well yeah it's a log scale, the trend lines aren't really lines tho, they are curves.  It does show the bubbles from a different perspective but it's not much different than looking at the US debt in the log scale. 
> 
> No one is going to claim that curve is sustainable.  Right?


I guess it depends on your definition of sustainable.

Was it sustainable for radio?  Color TV?  The internet?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm just waiting for that moment where the market decides that "OK this is the bottom, right here", and we turn towards a longer uptrend.
> 
> Because if I knew perfectly when that was, i would buy back some LTC at that time (even if it might tank until the next bubble). If i knew.
> Since I don't know, I have already bought. So I am betting on there being an upturn as the market flips.
> 
> So I'm waiting for an upturn. Might have to wait past the infamous April 15th, even if it is bull.
> 
> ---------
> 
> ...


To be honest, I think we already saw the bottom.  Just look at the 1d chart for the capitulation point after the last bubble.  They look very similar so far.

----------


## newbitech

> I guess it depends on your definition of sustainable.
> 
> Was it sustainable for radio?  Color TV?  The internet?


the parabolic curve up?  No it wasn't.  Nothing in this world can/will sustain parabolic growth for the simple fact that human population cannot grow parabolic on this planet forever.  Perhaps when humans are able to colonize other bodies in the universe, parabolic growth will be possible and sustainable.  Until then, things like adoption of the radio, color tv, and the internet will reach a point where the growth curve will become a simple function of human population growth.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> the parabolic curve up?  No it wasn't.  Nothing in this world can/will sustain parabolic growth for the simple fact that human population cannot grow parabolic on this planet forever.  Perhaps when humans are able to colonize other bodies in the universe, parabolic growth will be possible and sustainable.  Until then, things like adoption of the radio, color tv, and the internet will reach a point where the growth curve will become a simple function of human population growth.


Yes, that's what I meant.  If your definition of sustainable is to go parabolic literally _forever_, then of course not.  However, if it were to plateau at some point at the level where the internet is now, I would not be disappointed.

----------


## muh_roads

> the parabolic curve up?  No it wasn't.  Nothing in this world can/will sustain parabolic growth for the simple fact that human population cannot grow parabolic on this planet forever.  Perhaps when humans are able to colonize other bodies in the universe, parabolic growth will be possible and sustainable.  Until then, things like adoption of the radio, color tv, and the internet will reach a point where the growth curve will become a simple function of human population growth.


Nothing is parabolic forever no, but there are still plenty of humans that haven't experienced the joy of a zero fee payment processor yet with no middle-man.  We're still in the beginning phase of the upward s-curve long-term.  Crypto-currencies are a scientific breakthrough in the field of cryptography and we're all still early pioneers IMO.

----------


## muh_roads

> To be honest, I think we already saw the bottom.  Just look at the 1d chart for the capitulation point after the last bubble.  They look very similar so far.


I'd say we have too.  Whales might be able to shake out some more weak hands but I don't see us going below $400 BTC or $10 LTC.

----------


## muh_roads

> Just wanted to clarify the "spectacular event" thing, it sounded odd. 
> Could be something like:
> China bans bitcoin.
> Some other big country bans bitcoin.
> Bitcoin ATMs for buying(but not selling) bitcoin pops up all over U.S. (texas?)
> U.S. makes some sort of federal law about bitcoin, positive or negative.
> Some country that is easy to trade with officially adopts Bitcoin for some purpose or other.
> 
> Any of those would make a strong impact on the market. I'll be watching Bitcoin related news for the months to come :-> And holding.


I personally think the US wants to keep crypto for its own territory.  They are probably advising other central bankers to ban while the US and UK will enjoy the early adoption phase legally.  It will be up to the community to fight for those other countries and their people.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...onation-Thread
BTC is an option.

----------


## newbitech

> Yes, that's what I meant.  If your definition of sustainable is to go parabolic literally _forever_, then of course not.  However, if it were to plateau at some point at the level where the internet is now, I would not be disappointed.



well think about it.  

How much did it cost per baud when the internet first started?  How much was dial up?  How much was dsl?  how much is cable/fiber now?  

Point being, literally billions invested in telecom infrastructure, yet the end user still pays about the same (or less depending on how much time they spend) for access at the end of the day, despite there still being increase demand, untapped markets.  

So the theory behind bitcoin price appreciation is that as the technology improves and is more widely adopted the price for the end result will go UP.  This goes sharply against the grain in the world of technological improvements.  

Early adopters of the internet paid thru the nose.  Same for early adopters of just about every other tech I can think of.  Cars, appliances, you name it early tech was way more expensive in the beginning of the phase than at the middle or ends.  

Oh but you say that bitcoins are limited in supply.  Right, so is every other good and service out their that you spend money on.  

You'd really like to think that what you are getting your hands on is a piece of the very limited telecom bandwidth that you can later resell or lease to others for a profit.  It's not what is really going on with bitcoin.  

I think people intuitively recognize that a digital asset like bitcoin is anything but limited.  Bitcoin is digital which means it can be copied millions of times over and be the exact same thing as the original copy.  You'd not be able to distinguish the difference between a copy of bitcoin and bitcoin. 

The only piece of the puzzle that brings any sort of distinctiveness is the fact that a group of people called "miners" have come together to agree on which copy of the file to use.  

Like anything else, the difficulty curve in mining bitcoin will flatten out.  Eventually the curve that represents the relationship between difficulty and the profit margin will also flatten out.  Only the most highly efficient miners will see any returns.  This will consolidate the piece of the puzzle that gives this instance of bitcoin it's distinctiveness.  Fewer and fewer individuals will have any incentive at all to participate in making the file distinct from all the other carbon copies out there.  

Regular folks out there don't really see the utilization value of crypto.  It seems illegal to those folks to undermine the US government and the dollar.  Eventually you'll have a bunch of people just recycling a bunch of hash numbers that represent the simplest of tasks, trading one thing for a another, in probably the most complicated way known to man.  

Also, as you know, bitcoin may be divided into trillions of pieces.  There is nothing preventing the miners from agreeing to add more zeros on to the division, and as mining rewards become more and more scarce and transaction fees are suppressed by the market forces, there will be a strong incentive for miners to add one more zero behind the decimal point to squeeze just a little more rewards from the next new block.  

On top of that, what other product can anyone instantly add 10% to their net worth simply and quite literally by moving a decimal point in a math equation that defines the product?  

I'd imagine that perhaps bitcoin has one more to the moon moment.  But it's ridiculous for me to believe right now that anyone purchasing a right to modify the block chain will be able to see any kind of turn over in those rights that we've seen in the last year.  That ship has sailed I believe and I think really the only thing stopping bitcoin from wide spread adoption is the ridiculous entry price that people are asking for it.  

There really just isn't the demand out there to sustain those prices.  But there sure are a lack of people willing to let go of the thing.  I see it like a paradox and a snake that is eating itself in many ways.  

Perhaps one thing that people who like the technology can do is start giving it away for free again.  But that won't happen.  The greed is already too ingrained and has become a part of the culture surrounding the technology.  It's a big turn off really.

----------


## muh_roads

> well think about it.  
> 
> How much did it cost per baud when the internet first started?  How much was dial up?  How much was dsl?  how much is cable/fiber now?  
> 
> Point being, literally billions invested in telecom infrastructure, yet the end user still pays about the same (or less depending on how much time they spend) for access at the end of the day, despite there still being increase demand, untapped markets.  
> 
> So the theory behind bitcoin price appreciation is that as the technology improves and is more widely adopted the price for the end result will go UP.  This goes sharply against the grain in the world of technological improvements.  
> 
> Early adopters of the internet paid thru the nose.  Same for early adopters of just about every other tech I can think of.  Cars, appliances, you name it early tech was way more expensive in the beginning of the phase than at the middle or ends.  
> ...


Good lord there is so much incorrect statements in here.  I don't even know where to begin.

Please post this on bitcointalk.org.  They will spank you silly.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> well think about it.  
> 
> How much did it cost per baud when the internet first started?  How much was dial up?  How much was dsl?  how much is cable/fiber now?  
> 
> Point being, literally billions invested in telecom infrastructure, yet the end user still pays about the same (or less depending on how much time they spend) for access at the end of the day, despite there still being increase demand, untapped markets.  
> 
> So the theory behind bitcoin price appreciation is that as the technology improves and is more widely adopted the price for the end result will go UP.  This goes sharply against the grain in the world of technological improvements.  
> 
> Early adopters of the internet paid thru the nose.  Same for early adopters of just about every other tech I can think of.  Cars, appliances, you name it early tech was way more expensive in the beginning of the phase than at the middle or ends.  
> ...


Yes, I've heard all of your arguments that you like to constantly drone on and on about.  You're not even basing it on anything, just trying to find ways that it doesn't make sense in your head and spitting them all out at once to see if any of them stick.  

Bitcoin isn't a good or a service.  A good or service only has one use and therefore, has a stable value.  Bitcoin is meant to buy things, so how much it buys obviously depends on how much people use it.  The wider the adoption, the more it costs to have one.  You can't compare bitcoin to the price of a new technology that was simply meant as a consumer item.

----------


## muh_roads

Does anyone else have pres bots?  I have questions.  Sucks I can't contact him.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

BTC-e and Huobi making new highs since the low, Bitstamp reluctant for some reason.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

$300k buy order on BTC-e

----------


## newbitech

> Yes, I've heard all of your arguments that you like to constantly drone on and on about.  You're not even basing it on anything, just trying to find ways that it doesn't make sense in your head and spitting them all out at once to see if any of them stick.  
> 
> Bitcoin isn't a good or a service.  A good or service only has one use and therefore, has a stable value.  Bitcoin is meant to buy things, so how much it buys obviously depends on how much people use it.  The wider the adoption, the more it costs to have one.  *You can't compare bitcoin to the price of a new technology that was simply meant as a consumer item.*


You seem pretty upset.  But keep in mind, you brought up other technology. 

SO bitcoin isn't a good or a service.  It isn't physical.  It isn't money.  WTF do you think it is Paul?  It really sounds like you think bitcoin is something real but please enlighten me on how bitcoin is scarce.  

Tell me how its some one of a kind thing.   Describe that for me Paul.   You don't seem to understand that my arguments aren't against the technology.  My argument are against the way the technology is being applied and how it's being passed off as something its not.  

Further more, my arguments have evolved over time.  I'd rather be cynical than hold out hope that a series of 1's and 0's that do nothing more than scramble communication will someday be worth millions "each".  

It's fun to play the market, I'll give you that, but its not fun to play with thieves and money grubbers that will do anything to turn a dime off someone else back.  Not saying that is you, but it's definitely the type of people that the willfully ignorant misuse of this technology attracts.  

I think bitcoin has had it's hey day.  The shine is wearing off.  Now it's time to see the thing get down and dirty.  The price is outrageous for something that for most common folks (you know the one's you need to adopt it to justify the price) see as gimmicky and fraudulent.  Bitcoin has been recognized by the state as an asset now. 

That's not to say that people can't recognize it as whatever they want to recognize it as, but I think the dream of creating a currency out of thin air is fading.  It's quickly becoming apparent that digital recording every single transaction we as human make on a public ledger is probably not going to make us feel safe and private and secure.  

It's just a really bad time to try and convince people that their money is safer in a pure digital form detached from any physical reality.  There are mixed signals going out here and most folks BS radar can smell it miles away.  

Here is an idea, take the bitcoin you have now and divide it up into the smallest pieces possible.  Now how many of THOSE do you have?  Is there not enough bitcoin created to support an economy at this point?  

No?  We are still waiting for adoption?  Why not make a new coin called peopleCoin.  Make enough so that each person in the world gets 1 each and make em all at the same time.  Then start handing them out.  You'll have 100% adoption and everyone will get to start out on a level playing field.  That sounds like a better idea to me than a handful of people owning all but a few hundred thousand bitcoins and trying to sell them for millions of dollars "each"  what ever "each" is.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> You seem pretty upset.  But keep in mind, you brought up other technology. 
> 
> No?  We are still waiting for adoption?  Why not make a new coin called peopleCoin.  Make enough so that each person in the world gets 1 each and make em all at the same time.  Then start handing them out.  You'll have 100% adoption and everyone will get to start out on a level playing field.  That sounds like a better idea to me than a handful of people owning all but a few hundred thousand bitcoins and trying to sell them for millions of dollars "each"  what ever "each" is.


There isn't a real feasible way to distribute anything to every person on the planet, or else I'm 100% sure there would be a coin that did that. 

Sure, in theory you could, by I guess, using genetic identifiers or something in the future, today it's impossible. 


Propose a method whereby worldwide equal distribution is possible using present day methods, that wouldn't cost millions of dollars, and I'll donate to the project.

----------


## muh_roads

newbitech...are you a socialist?  Free market capitalism is always going to have winners and losers.  Who cares if a few early adopters hung onto their coins?  There are plenty of early adopters who also sold hundreds of thousands of BTC for single and double digits.  Most early adopters are kicking themselves.  They transferred those to other people on a wider scale.

Why is this bad in either direction?

----------


## enter`name`here

The price of bitcoin is irrelavant to whether or not it is a useful currency. Bitcoin functions just as well as a medium of exchange at $0.10 a coin as it does at $1000000 a coin.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> It really sounds like you think bitcoin is something real but please enlighten me on how bitcoin is scarce.


The test for scarcity is: 
Try to acquire a lot of it. Go ahead.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You seem pretty upset.  But keep in mind, you brought up other technology. 
> 
> SO bitcoin isn't a good or a service.  It isn't physical.  It isn't money.  WTF do you think it is Paul?  It really sounds like you think bitcoin is something real but please enlighten me on how bitcoin is scarce.  
> 
> Tell me how its some one of a kind thing.   Describe that for me Paul.   You don't seem to understand that my arguments aren't against the technology.  My argument are against the way the technology is being applied and how it's being passed off as something its not.  
> 
> Further more, my arguments have evolved over time.  I'd rather be cynical than hold out hope that a series of 1's and 0's that do nothing more than scramble communication will someday be worth millions "each".  
> 
> It's fun to play the market, I'll give you that, but its not fun to play with thieves and money grubbers that will do anything to turn a dime off someone else back.  Not saying that is you, but it's definitely the type of people that the willfully ignorant misuse of this technology attracts.  
> ...


I seem upset?  I really don't know how you arrived at that conclusion.  Maybe you're making this out to be more emotional than it really is.  That's fine, but you don't have to project how you feel onto others.  I simply don't want to get into an endless debate over what bitcoin is.  You can muse on your own time about why capitalism is the way it is and struggle with your own conscience over "thieves and money grubbers".  

One thing I really don't get is why it matters so much to you that it can be split up into many, many pieces.  The truth is that it was split up that way to serve an economic purpose, and it does it effectively.  There's really no need to go deeper down the rabbit hole than that.




> No?  We are still waiting for adoption?  Why not make a new coin called peopleCoin.  Make enough so that each person in the world gets 1 each and make em all at the same time.  Then start handing them out.  You'll have 100% adoption and everyone will get to start out on a level playing field.  That sounds like a better idea to me than a handful of people owning all but a few hundred thousand bitcoins and trying to sell them for millions of dollars "each"  what ever "each" is.


Do you really think it's that simple?  There's a reason why the technology is open-source.  If I just created something and started handing it out, I would be an authority and be able to counterfeit.

----------


## newbitech

> The test for scarcity is: 
> Try to acquire a lot of it. Go ahead.


I have a copy of the bitcoin and the division log.  Haven't updated it in a while.

Everyone's bitcoin is stored in a file that is openly distributed on p2p networks.  Anyone can copy the file.  It's not scarce.  Further more, anyone can create and mine their own coins.  

Nothing really makes bitcoin distinct from a carbon copy other than the majority of miners deciding which copy to use.  I've explained that in a previous post.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Right, and anyone can go out and mine gold.  You are really grasping at straws here.  It would be funny if it weren't pathetic.

----------


## newbitech

> There isn't a real feasible way to distribute anything to every person on the planet, or else I'm 100% sure there would be a coin that did that. 
> 
> Sure, in theory you could, by I guess, using genetic identifiers or something in the future, today it's impossible. 
> 
> 
> Propose a method whereby worldwide equal distribution is possible using present day methods, that wouldn't cost millions of dollars, and I'll donate to the project.


Back in the day a man's word and a handshake was all one needed to trade.  Bitcoin at best is a solution for extending that word and handshake worldwide.  

Simply allow a human to register their identity on this transaction network and claim their share.  Since we are going super high tech, create the hash of the persons DNA and seed with the time they created the hash (so you can't just get someones dna and get their key).  Then, when someone wants to claim their equally distributed share of the currency, they could simply input the results of their scanned DNA sequence and claim their key.  

The only issue I see is preventing someone from registering multiple instances of DNA.  This could be solved by high tech biological nano bots that a person would swallow to validate the dna sample was taken from inside the persons bowels.

----------


## newbitech

> Right, and anyone can go out and mine gold.  You are really grasping at straws here.  It would be funny if it weren't pathetic.


I am not comparing bitcoin to gold, that be you.

----------


## newbitech

> newbitech...are you a socialist?  Free market capitalism is always going to have winners and losers.  Who cares if a few early adopters hung onto their coins?  There are plenty of early adopters who also sold hundreds of thousands of BTC for single and double digits.  Most early adopters are kicking themselves.  They transferred those to other people on a wider scale.
> 
> Why is this bad in either direction?


I don't identify with any socioeconomic  classification really.  Certain aspects of socialism are just human nature I think.  My judgement and argument against how the technology behind bitcoin is being applied isn't a study of capitalism vs socialism.  I think the technological advancement on the whole has allowed free market ideas to flourish.  Bitcoin is a free market experiment in the truest meaning of free market.  I have no argument against that.  However, I already don't like the direction it's heading. 

I am weary of a system where digital assets that folks claim to be both open source and scarce are selling for 100's of dollars.  Something isn't right about it.  That was my gut instinct and why I didn't jump on the bandwagon when it was 2 dollars a pop.  Sure I missed some of the easier profits, but I did relish in the opportunity for free trade without regulation in an extremely volatile market.  I was able to etch out a nice profit for myself.  However, I still fail to see any utility that goes beyond a nitch with this technology.  

To your point, I think the artificial scarcity is bad.

----------


## muh_roads

> ...isn't a study of capitalism vs socialism.


But it is when you keep saying "equally distributed share".




> ...are selling for 100's of dollars.  Something isn't right about it.


Why?  A bar of gold is thousands upon thousands of dollars.  I don't need a whole bar.  I can buy a piece of gold just like anyone can buy a piece of Bitcoin if the price were to ever get that high.




> Simply allow a human to register their identity  on this transaction network and claim their share.  Since we are going  super high tech, create the hash of the persons DNA and seed with the  time they created the hash (so you can't just get someones dna and get  their key).


This would be better and less intrusive...

http://www.wired.com/2014/02/nymi/*
Only Your Heartbeat Can Unlock This Bitcoin Wallet*





> Soon, you’ll have the option of locking your bitcoin wallet with your heartbeat.
> 
>  A Canadian startup says it’s just a few months from shipping the Nymi, a wristband that can learn the unique sound of your heartbeat and use it to open and close your bitcoin wallet.
> 
>  A bitcoin wallet is the software you use to send and receive bitcoins  — home to the private cryptography key that provides access to your  bitcoin, and it’s rather important that you keep this key safe. Bitcoin,  the increasingly popular digital currency, works a lot like online  cash. When someone steals your bitcoin, the money is gone for good. You  can hide your key behind a password on one of the popular online wallet  services, but you might want to take additional steps, like hiding it on  a piece of paper in your desk drawer here in the real world or using  your heartbeat to lock it down on your PC.
> 
>  Bionym, the company that makes the Nymi wristband, markets it as a  simple-to-use log-on device. Basically, it provides a biometric  alternative to a password, using Bluetooth wireless signals to send your  heartbeat signature to all sorts of computing systems where you need  security, including your PC, your iPad, even your car.
> 
>  Because your electrocardiogram, or ECG, readings are both hard to  spoof and unique, Bionym thinks these little plastic wristbands will  open up a whole new era of fun, password-free living — as you can see in  this fantasy demo video:
> ...

----------


## XTreat

Can we please take this argument somewhere else?

If you like BTC, act on it, if not then don't.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> I have a copy of the bitcoin and the division log.  Haven't updated it in a while.
> 
> Everyone's bitcoin is stored in a file that is openly distributed on p2p networks.  Anyone can copy the file.  It's not scarce.  Further more, anyone can create and mine their own coins.  
> 
> Nothing really makes bitcoin distinct from a carbon copy other than the majority of miners deciding which copy to use.  I've explained that in a previous post.


And how would you go about acquiring consensus that your edited copy of the blockchain is bitcoin? You haven't acquired any bitcoin by modifying a copy of the blockchain. It's like taking a bank statement and scribbling numbers with a pencil

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> Back in the day a man's word and a handshake was all one needed to trade.  Bitcoin at best is a solution for extending that word and handshake worldwide.  
> 
> Simply allow a human to register their identity on this transaction network and claim their share.  Since we are going super high tech, create the hash of the persons DNA and seed with the time they created the hash (so you can't just get someones dna and get their key).  Then, when someone wants to claim their equally distributed share of the currency, they could simply input the results of their scanned DNA sequence and claim their key.  
> 
> The only issue I see is preventing someone from registering multiple instances of DNA.  This could be solved by high tech biological nano bots that a person would swallow to validate the dna sample was taken from inside the persons bowels.



So, essentially, there is no practical way to do it at present, as your proposal would cost "BILLIONS" to implement.

----------


## newbitech

> But it is when you keep saying "equally distributed share".
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  A bar of gold is thousands upon thousands of dollars.  I don't need a whole bar.  I can buy a piece of gold just like anyone can buy a piece of Bitcoin if the price were to ever get that high.
> 
> 
> 
> This would be better and less intrusive...
> ...


I didn't keep saying anything.  I mentioned it once and like I said it had nothing to do with capitalism vs socialism.  You missed the point and changed the subject.  
Again, a bar of gold is truly scarce.  A "bitcoin" is artificially scarce.  

Perhaps the heartbeat can be unique for every single human being.   I am pretty sure that DNA is almost 100% unique for every living thing.  The heart beat is good though cause it proves the person is alive.  That would be important since DNA can be used for organism even when theyre long gone.   SO a combination of DNA/heartbeat would be a good idea.

----------


## newbitech

> And how would you go about acquiring consensus that your edited copy of the blockchain is bitcoin? You haven't acquired any bitcoin by modifying a copy of the blockchain. It's like taking a bank statement and scribbling numbers with a pencil


Everyone who uses bitcoin is modifying a copy of the blockchain.  I don't need consensus, I just need another person willing to buy it off me.  

It's more like taking a blank check and filling in whatever numbers and names you want on it and passing it off to whoever believes it's worth something.

----------


## newbitech

> So, essentially, there is no practical way to do it at present, as your proposal would cost "BILLIONS" to implement.


Sure it's practical.  I am not sure where you get "BILLIONS" from or why it's in quotes, but... software is easy to copy and distribute worldwide.  No barrier there.  Perhaps the biometric tech is not feasible on the large scale at this point, but I think it would only take a fraction of the investment capital that has been squandered on bitcoin to work out a 3d printed circuit that could be encapsulated in a micro device to generate the biometric hash.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I am not comparing bitcoin to gold, that be you.


And what about that?

You completely missed the point, which is that "anyone can mine bitcoin" in no way discredits it.  You need to come up with a better argument.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Everyone who uses bitcoin is modifying a copy of the blockchain.  I don't need consensus, I just need another person willing to buy it off me.  
> 
> It's more like taking a blank check and filling in whatever numbers and names you want on it and passing it off to whoever believes it's worth something.


You keep spamming this thread, which is not what it's about at all.  You've gone from critic to downright vitriolic troll.  I'm sick of your $#@!.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Everyone who uses bitcoin is modifying a copy of the blockchain.  I don't need consensus, I just need another person willing to buy it off me.  
> 
> It's more like taking a blank check and filling in whatever numbers and names you want on it and passing it off to whoever believes it's worth something.


Your logic is just totally out of whack.  You don't need consensus like I don't need consensus in order for the gas station to take a stepped-on piece of bubble gum as payment.  They just have to be willing to take it.  Yeah, see how that works out in the real world.

----------


## Dianne

This is making me think of the following song lyrics:

Come on people now, smile on your brother.   Everybody get together, try to love one another right now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Everyone who uses bitcoin is modifying a copy of the blockchain.  I don't need consensus, I just need another person willing to buy it off me.  
> 
> It's more like taking a blank check and filling in whatever numbers and names you want on it and passing it off to whoever believes it's worth something.


And this is bad, how?  All checks start off blank.  Keep your checks in a secure place.  Just as you would keep your gold in a safe place.

Also you do need concensus by miners confirming transactions.

I agree with XTreat, you should make your own thread.

----------


## djthistle01

Hello, First post for me on RP Forums. I joined because of this thread. 

1) Can we keep to LP's vibe of analysis and if not a new thread would be great...thanks.
2) Someone wanted to contact LP about Dragon Slayer. He opened up a second account on BTC-e Litepresence2...so you could PM him there. 
3) Sub $400BTC seems in the cards (insert sad face) But also that is great for us that bought way to high and are holding fiat to buy real low.

----------


## newbitech

> And what about that?
> 
> You completely missed the point, which is that "anyone can mine bitcoin" in no way discredits it.  You need to come up with a better argument.


no anyone can't mine bitcoin.  Bitcoin is only "found" these days by extreme computing.  Once can still find gold with a pan.

----------


## newbitech

> You keep spamming this thread, which is not what it's about at all.  You've gone from critic to downright vitriolic troll.  I'm sick of your $#@!.


I am simply responding to the topic and the direction it's taken.  I am not spamming anything and there is no vitriol here.  It might feel that way cause I speak against some core tenants on how the technology is currently being used but not without merit and sound arguments.

----------


## newbitech

> And this is bad, how?  All checks start off blank.  Keep your checks in a secure place.  Just as you would keep your gold in a safe place.
> 
> Also you do need concensus by miners confirming transactions.
> 
> I agree with XTreat, you should make your own thread.


didn't say it was bad.  Why should I make my own thread?  I am responding to this one.  Am I not allowed to respond to certain threads at Ron Paul Forums now?

----------


## newbitech

> Hello, First post for me on RP Forums. I joined because of this thread. 
> 
> 1) Can we keep to LP's vibe of analysis and if not a new thread would be great...thanks.
> 2) Someone wanted to contact LP about Dragon Slayer. He opened up a second account on BTC-e Litepresence2...so you could PM him there. 
> 3) Sub $400BTC seems in the cards (insert sad face) But also that is great for us that bought way to high and are holding fiat to buy real low.


Sure.  We'll only allow discussion in this thread that supports the analysis that the price of bitcoin can do nothing but go up...  what a huge circle jerk.

Since when did RPF become and advertising platform for market trading tools?  

Nice socks...

----------


## djthistle01

Here is my chart.

https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...414208/photo/1

----------


## muh_roads

> didn't say it was bad.  Why should I make my own thread?  I am responding to this one.  Am I not allowed to respond to certain threads at Ron Paul Forums now?


I would just prefer to find your arguments in an easier to find place.  This thread is a huge mixed bag.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I am simply responding to the topic and the direction it's taken.  I am not spamming anything and there is no vitriol here.  It might feel that way cause I speak against some core tenants on how the technology is currently being used but not without merit and sound arguments.


No, actually you're the one who's been pushing the topic in this direction the whole time.  This thread is about analysis of the market, not argument and criticism about what bitcoin is.  If you want to talk about that, create your own thread.  The simple fact is that you're the only one who has been making any criticism, so you can't just tell me that the discussion turned in that direction without your input.

What's more, your arguments are anything but set in stone.  You act like the illegitimacy of bitcoin is already settled, when really, you're just rehashing the old argument that money has to be something tangible that you can hold in your hand.  That question has really not been determined yet, so don't act like you're making your arguments on anything other than conjecture.  Nobody can really be certain about what's going on yet, and you're no exception.  

Either way, though, you really need to stop derailing the thread and pushing your agenda.  Go make your own thread where you can rant and rave all day about it with anyone who wants to indulge you, but not here.  Your tenacity on this subject is quite confusing to me, and I'd really rather not have to deal with it here.  If I want to read your rants, I'll go read your thread rather than respond to your knee-jerk shouting matches in an off-topic discussion you start in the wrong thread.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> didn't say it was bad.  Why should I make my own thread?  I am responding to this one.  Am I not allowed to respond to certain threads at Ron Paul Forums now?


That's not what this thread is about.  You know the rules, now stop being such a troll.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Sure.  We'll only allow discussion in this thread that supports the analysis that the price of bitcoin can do nothing but go up...  what a huge circle jerk.
> 
> Since when did RPF become and advertising platform for market trading tools?  
> 
> Nice socks...


Even if this thread is a circle jerk, that doesn't mean you can come and derail it.  I honestly can't figure out why you want to, either.  It seems like a big waste of your time to constantly bash something that you have no stake in.

I could understand you wanting to input your own opinion in a calm, well-thought-out thread of your own, but your tenacity in starting shouting matches about it in the wrong thread seems strange and disingenuous.  Why do you feel so strongly that you have to discredit this thing here and now?

----------


## muh_roads

> Sure.  We'll only allow discussion in this thread that supports the analysis that the price of bitcoin can do nothing but go up...  what a huge circle jerk.


uhh...you just responded to someone who said "sub 400"...

----------


## djthistle01

I think the price is going down myself. But if a random guy signs up to say "can we stay on topic" that probably means you are losing other daily readers too. And since this place is a GREAT resource thread I decided to chime in. We can have more than 1 thread...more the merrier

----------


## muh_roads

djthistle01,

Welcome aboard.  Are you using Dragon Slayer 2.0?  I started a day or two before the weekend.  Seems to be acting funny.  It'll say "Now Entering bear market", but then it starts buying...don't quite get it...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> djthistle01,
> 
> Welcome aboard.  Are you using Dragon Slayer 2.0?  I started a day or two before the weekend.  Seems to be acting funny.  It'll say "Now Entering bear market", but then it starts buying...don't quite get it...


One of the traders I consult, Chris Dunn, says bots are scams.  I've given it some thought, and I'm not so sure about their efficacy.  Can anyone really vouch for them?  It does seem too good to be true.

----------


## muh_roads

> One of the traders I consult, Chris Dunn, says bots are scams.  I've given it some thought, and I'm not so sure about their efficacy.  Can anyone really vouch for them?  It does seem too good to be true.


I mean that is entirely possible.  It all depends on who is writing them.  I have no reason to distrust pres.

Does this Dunn guy mostly trade wall street?  We kind of already know it's a scam.  I don't think any bot in the world that is connected to your average scottrade or amertrade account can compete with their high-frequency trading systems.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I mean that is entirely possible.  It all depends on who is writing them.  I have no reason to distrust pres.
> 
> Does this Dunn guy mostly trade wall street?  We kind of already know it's a scam.  I don't think any bot in the world that is connected to your average scottrade or amertrade account can compete with their high-frequency trading systems.


He trades mostly futures and bitcoin.  He's been doing it since 2001.  And yes, he was referring to bitcoin trading bots.

----------


## nayjevin

> No, actually you're the one who's been pushing the topic in this direction the whole time.  This thread is about analysis of the market, not argument and criticism about what bitcoin is.  If you want to talk about that, create your own thread.  The simple fact is that you're the only one who has been making any criticism, so you can't just tell me that the discussion turned in that direction without your input.
> 
> What's more, your arguments are anything but set in stone.  You act like the illegitimacy of bitcoin is already settled, when really, you're just rehashing the old argument that money has to be something tangible that you can hold in your hand.  That question has really not been determined yet, so don't act like you're making your arguments on anything other than conjecture.  Nobody can really be certain about what's going on yet, and you're no exception.  
> 
> Either way, though, you really need to stop derailing the thread and pushing your agenda.  Go make your own thread where you can rant and rave all day about it with anyone who wants to indulge you, but not here.  Your tenacity on this subject is quite confusing to me, and I'd really rather not have to deal with it here.  If I want to read your rants, I'll go read your thread rather than respond to your knee-jerk shouting matches in an off-topic discussion you start in the wrong thread.


I enjoy it cause ppl in this thread are knowledgeable but if pres doesn't it could be kept on topic.  I'd suggest a new thread for trading analysis tho,especially if pres is long gone.

----------


## muh_roads

> especially if pres is long gone.


He told me last week that he'd be gone for 3 weeks.  Taking a long vacation touring beaches from east coast to west coast or something.  He's not posting charts because he only has his cellphone with him.

If you guys want to see his bot trading with live funds, send me a PM.  Actually, I'd prefer if you guys created hushmail e-mail accounts that I could send to.  If you do that, post your hushmail address here.

My PM inbox fills up too fast...I have a very limited account here for some reason.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I enjoy it cause ppl in this thread are knowledgeable but if pres doesn't it could be kept on topic.  I'd suggest a new thread for trading analysis tho,especially if pres is long gone.


Perhaps, but who will start it?

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> Hello, First post for me on RP Forums. I joined because of this thread. 
> 
> 1) Can we keep to LP's vibe of analysis and if not a new thread would be great...thanks.
> 2) Someone wanted to contact LP about Dragon Slayer. He opened up a second account on BTC-e Litepresence2...so you could PM him there. 
> 3) Sub $400BTC seems in the cards (insert sad face) But also that is great for us that bought way to high and are holding fiat to buy real low.


I second [edit: just saw the humor in this, my second post, and I'm seconding ] the idea of not seeing another piece of spam from "newbitech".  It's not even worth responding to, his arguments are just silly, tired, rehashed old arguments that don't add any value to this thread which is not about whether or not Bitcoin is "real" or has "value".  This thread is about obtaining more value from this already-valuable reality.

I'm running the Dragon Slayer A bot right now.  I started with "X" LTC, and it didn't lose anything for a week, so added another "4X" LTC to it.  In terms of straight dollar amounts, it has lost a few percent; but in terms of LTC, because it sold out higher when I moved the additional "4X" LTC to it, it's ahead by around "0.5X".  Which is really pretty neat.

Not sure whether we'll see sub-$400 BTC or not.  (Of course I'm _hoping_ for not, but ...).

I will highlight that this is MY SECOND POST, and I'm saying that a thread hijacker should leave and create his own thread.  (So I didn't call out the troll with my first post, oh well. )  However, like you, I created my account here solely due to this thread.

And hopefully, my future posts will be more positive about helpful and positive contributions.  It sucks having to run trolls away.  A great idea from dailypaul.com: use "shadowbanning" for trolls, so they don't *know* that they were banned, they just see that nobody is responding to them, and thus they end up spending their trolling energy with absolutely no return, instead of e.g. actually banning them and letting them know they now need to sign up for a new account.  Shadowbanning actually makes the world a better place, because the time they spend in the shadows is time they're not spending on some other site, causing trouble.

"newbitech" is not using new tactics; we just need to "respond" appropriately.  (Same with gold-backed coins.)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> He told me last week that he'd be gone for 3 weeks.  Taking a long vacation touring beaches from east coast to west coast or something.  He's not posting charts because he only has his cellphone with him.
> 
> If you guys want to see his bot trading with live funds, send me a PM.  Actually, I'd prefer if you guys created hushmail e-mail accounts that I could send to.  If you do that, post your hushmail address here.
> 
> My PM inbox fills up too fast...I have a very limited account here for some reason.


You mean, so we can watch the bot in action?  I would be interested in that.  I have 3 e-mail accounts, but they all have my name on them.

----------


## muh_roads

> You mean, so we can watch the bot in action?  I would be interested in that.  I have 3 e-mail accounts, but they all have my name on them.


Yep, in action.

Create a hushmail account.  https://www.hushmail.com/
When e-mailing between two hushmail's it is encrypted.  You can set it to forward an alert to a regular e-mail that lets u know when something arrives.  Set it to (do not include subject)

The bot can't anticipate bad news coming like we can.  All it is doing is calculating a bunch of indicators to predict upcoming events.  It doesn't know about China, e.g.  I think it should  be turned off until after mid-April.  Today it thought it was buying into a  rally, but it turned into a huge sell-off.

The nice thing about it though is that it's not afraid of taking a quick loss.  Real traders, unlike myself, don't get emotionally attached and will sell at a loss if they made a mistake.

I am still not giving up on it.  Although I wish pres would remove the RSI / SAR stuff.  He has a standalone bot that simulates very poorly and even he admitted he doesn't fully understand those indicators.  Yet his Green Dragon has them included.

Regardless, it's pretty funny to see it backtest an 85x increase during the rise and fall of our last mega bubble.  Now technically the rise in BTC deserves the majority of that credit.  So it might be more like an 8.5x increase.  Since BTC went from 110 to 1100 or so.

It won't grab the very top or the very bottom.  It doesn't seem to come as close to that as I would want.  I think it is testing for traps before making a call.  And during sideways movement this might be bad to be running.

----------


## newbitech

> I second [edit: just saw the humor in this, my second post, and I'm seconding ] the idea of not seeing another piece of spam from "newbitech".  It's not even worth responding to, his arguments are just silly, tired, rehashed old arguments that don't add any value to this thread which is not about whether or not Bitcoin is "real" or has "value".  This thread is about obtaining more value from this already-valuable reality.
> 
> I'm running the Dragon Slayer A bot right now.  I started with "X" LTC, and it didn't lose anything for a week, so added another "4X" LTC to it.  In terms of straight dollar amounts, it has lost a few percent; but in terms of LTC, because it sold out higher when I moved the additional "4X" LTC to it, it's ahead by around "0.5X".  Which is really pretty neat.
> 
> Not sure whether we'll see sub-$400 BTC or not.  (Of course I'm _hoping_ for not, but ...).
> 
> I will highlight that this is MY SECOND POST, and I'm saying that a thread hijacker should leave and create his own thread.  (So I didn't call out the troll with my first post, oh well. )  However, like you, I created my account here solely due to this thread.
> 
> And hopefully, my future posts will be more positive about helpful and positive contributions.  It sucks having to run trolls away.  A great idea from dailypaul.com: use "shadowbanning" for trolls, so they don't *know* that they were banned, they just see that nobody is responding to them, and thus they end up spending their trolling energy with absolutely no return, instead of e.g. actually banning them and letting them know they now need to sign up for a new account.  Shadowbanning actually makes the world a better place, because the time they spend in the shadows is time they're not spending on some other site, causing trouble.
> ...


It's funny how all these people come out the wood work to tell me about my tired arguments.  Funny for a couple reasons, the main reason being is that I do nothing more than post an alternative analysis and respond to questions from people who ask me why I think the way I do.  It makes me laugh that people that have no conversation with me suddenly have an opinion about what I have said, but don't even bother to address my opinion.  

I suppose if I was some rah rah cheerleader that agreed with the sky is the limit analysis those people would keep quite.  I also find it funny how people sign up just to tell me to stop responding and stop participating in the thread.  It would probably be a lot easier to just ignore stuff rather than sign up simply to suggest I be banned.

I've not broken any rules.  I am not trolling.  Sure some people are pissed at my analysis and would rather I shut up, as if my analysis and opinion are causing them to lose money.  Whatever.  

Feel free to ignore my posts.  Also for all you other lurkers out there reading this, if you do decide to delurk, I encourage you to participate in the plethora of other topics on this forum.  I'm sure there is more going on here than meets the eye.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yep, in action.
> 
> Create a hushmail account.  https://www.hushmail.com/
> When e-mailing between two hushmail's it is encrypted.  You can set it to forward an alert to a regular e-mail that lets u know when something arrives.  Set it to (do not include subject)
> 
> The bot can't anticipate bad news coming like we can.  All it is doing is calculating a bunch of indicators to predict upcoming events.  It doesn't know about China, e.g.  I think it should  be turned off until after mid-April.  Today it thought it was buying into a  rally, but it turned into a huge sell-off.
> 
> The nice thing about it though is that it's not afraid of taking a quick loss.  Real traders, unlike myself, don't get emotionally attached and will sell at a loss if they made a mistake.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I doubt now is a good time to run it regardless.  I would definitely be curious to see how it works, though.  I'm interested in getting into trading a lot more, and this could provide some useful perspective about things that influence the market.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's funny how all these people come out the wood work to tell me about my tired arguments.  Funny for a couple reasons, the main reason being is that I do nothing more than post an alternative analysis and respond to questions from people who ask me why I think the way I do.  It makes me laugh that people that have no conversation with me suddenly have an opinion about what I have said, but don't even bother to address my opinion.  
> 
> I suppose if I was some rah rah cheerleader that agreed with the sky is the limit analysis those people would keep quite.  I also find it funny how people sign up just to tell me to stop responding and stop participating in the thread.  It would probably be a lot easier to just ignore stuff rather than sign up simply to suggest I be banned.
> 
> I've not broken any rules.  I am not trolling.  Sure some people are pissed at my analysis and would rather I shut up, as if my analysis and opinion are causing them to lose money.  Whatever.  
> 
> Feel free to ignore my posts.  Also for all you other lurkers out there reading this, if you do decide to delurk, I encourage you to participate in the plethora of other topics on this forum.  I'm sure there is more going on here than meets the eye.


I think a lot of people just find it curious why you're so uptight about this.  Can't you just let it go and move on?  Do you have some kind of problem with starting your own thread where you can have a civil discussion there?

I mean, you say this all makes you laugh, but I get the sense that you're not really laughing at all.

Keep in mind, I personally responded to you in a civil manner when you were actually providing an analysis.  Now you're just posting empty criticism and trying to tell us all how you think bitcoin is a failure.  That has nothing to do with the analysis, so keep it on topic or find your own thread.

Everyone here is aware of the risks, so we don't need you constantly telling us that you think bitcoin is worthless.  We get it.  Tangible information about the markets is appreciated, but you have to admit you've been posting more than just market analysis.  You've added nothing constructive, and that's what irks me, as I'm sure is the case with many others.

----------


## muh_roads

> It's funny how all these people come out the wood work to tell me about my tired arguments.  Funny for a couple reasons, the main reason being is that I do nothing more than post an alternative analysis and respond to questions from people who ask me why I think the way I do.  It makes me laugh that people that have no conversation with me suddenly have an opinion about what I have said, but don't even bother to address my opinion.  
> 
> I suppose if I was some rah rah cheerleader that agreed with the sky is the limit analysis those people would keep quite.  I also find it funny how people sign up just to tell me to stop responding and stop participating in the thread.  It would probably be a lot easier to just ignore stuff rather than sign up simply to suggest I be banned.
> 
> I've not broken any rules.  I am not trolling.  Sure some people are pissed at my analysis and would rather I shut up, as if my analysis and opinion are causing them to lose money.  Whatever.  
> 
> Feel free to ignore my posts.  Also for all you other lurkers out there reading this, if you do decide to delurk, I encourage you to participate in the plethora of other topics on this forum.  I'm sure there is more going on here than meets the eye.


I'm not going to ignore you.  But I come here for trade talk and what you say gets buried because I'll admit I skip over it.  By the time I want to read your rants, things are buried too far back and it just becomes a hassle.  I hate large threads.  I $#@!ing hate them more than anything.  I only put up with it here because I want to learn and this place has been great free education bouncing ideas off of each other.

You can post anywhere you want but it will get better exposure in its own thread.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> It's funny how all these people come out the wood work to tell me about my tired arguments


Woodwork?  No, I signed up so I could communicate positively with litepresence.

Your tired arguments had nothing to do with me signing up.

They did have something to do with my second post.  Which is why I mentioned that your trollish behavior caused me to post my second post, and I hope that my fourth post will not have to mention negative behavior.  At all.

----------


## newbitech

> I think a lot of people just find it curious why you're so uptight about this.  Can't you just let it go and move on?  Do you have some kind of problem with starting your own thread where you can have a civil discussion there?
> 
> I mean, you say this all makes you laugh, but I get the sense that you're not really laughing at all.
> 
> Keep in mind, I personally responded to you in a civil manner when you were actually providing an analysis.  Now you're just posting empty criticism and trying to tell us all how you think bitcoin is a failure.  That has nothing to do with the analysis, so keep it on topic or find your own thread.


Let what go?  I am just as intrigued by the topic of this thread as any one else.  Why should I be the one to "just let go"?  I responded to posts in this thread.  Is there something wrong with that?  

I am laughing my ass off because when I see that people are joining to suggest that I be banned or suggest that since I do not agree with everything in this thread I should not go somewhere else I wonder if it's really a new person or if it's just someone trying to pull my chain.  I do think there are more than 1 account controlled by the same person in this thread.  Had no real reason to mention it until now, but yeah, I really am laughing my ass off over here.  

Sure you responded to me in a civil manner. So did I.  You also brought up comparisons to other things to support your conclusions.  I simply replied to that.  All of a sudden you didn't like what I was saying and suggest I go somewhere else.  I get it, you think I am here trying to stir the pot.  But as you said, I am the only person providing the negative analysis.  As a trader, you should appreciate that fact.  You should also appreciate the fact that I provide more than just cryptic crypto chart.  

Another thing you need to know.  Trading bots that don't short don't make money.  I've never heard of a trading bot that all it does is enter and exit long positions that was successful.  Perhaps this is something new.  Perhaps I just haven't looked around enough.  But fact is, if all your bot is doing is entering and exiting long positions, you are missing out on at least 50% of the move that you are trading.  That 50% you will definitely need to cover your ass for the times when you bot $#@!s up and leaves you scratching your head, WHICH IT WILL.    

Anyways, that discussion hasn't been brought up yet either BECAUSE I am respecting the thread starter.  But there are some really simple things that I cannot just let go in a thread like this where someone is selling a product to others that I happen to care for and am concerned about.   Such as posting charts with no time scales.  That is TA sacrilege.  Other things like sharing of log scale price charts without any explanation and trying to hold that up in the face of historical prices.  That needs some salt as well. 

Now, you can't sit here and tell me to use another thread if I decide to answer questions about my analysis.  This thread is more than just a "report".  This thread is selling a product.  This thread is also prognosticating.  We can all pull up the charts and look at them.  But in order to analyze there needs to be discussion.  I happen to have taken the dissenting opinion in this particular thread.  

I am not sure why that is met with hostility and accusations of spamming and trolling. 

Edit: actually, yeah I probably know why.  Shame.

----------


## muh_roads

If people are wondering why new people are showing up, it is because in the source code of the pres bots he links the crypto community to this thread as his home turf.

----------


## newbitech

> Woodwork?  No, I signed up so I could communicate positively with litepresence.
> 
> Your tired arguments had nothing to do with me signing up.
> 
> They did have something to do with my second post.  Which is why I mentioned that your trollish behavior caused me to post my second post, and I hope that my fourth post will not have to mention negative behavior.  At all.


Welcome to the forum.  So I assume you signed up so you could PM with him.  Cause right now you have 3 posts and 66% of them are addressing me and accusing me of being a troll.  Perhaps in time you will come to appreciate my words.  Or you could simply continue what you have been doing for the last 7 years and ignore me on this website.

----------


## newbitech

> If people are wondering why new people are showing up, it is because in the source code of the pres bots he links the crypto community to this thread as his home turf.


That's awesome.  I've had plenty of discussion with litepresence at BTC-E private convos.  I am not here to ruin his party, and I only think it's fair that since there are a bunch of other regulars that follow this thread that some balance be given in the reporting.  We all have our bias, and if new people are coming in here expecting everyone to agree, they will figure out soon enough that this isn't that type of forum.  That's healthy I think.

So, in a show of good faith what I will do is create my own thread that is dedicated to nothing more than responding to posts in THIS thread.  That way people won't have to go out their way to ignore me, and my dissent will be properly recorded.  I am sure the OP wouldn't mind either if his thread got a few less posts and bumps.

----------


## muh_roads

> My PM inbox fills up too fast...I have a very limited account here for some reason.


Thank you to whoever just increased my max PM inbox count from 100 to 7000

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Let what go?  I am just as intrigued by the topic of this thread as any one else.  Why should I be the one to "just let go"?  I responded to posts in this thread.  Is there something wrong with that?  
> 
> I am laughing my ass off because when I see that people are joining to suggest that I be banned or suggest that since I do not agree with everything in this thread I should not go somewhere else I wonder if it's really a new person or if it's just someone trying to pull my chain.  I do think there are more than 1 account controlled by the same person in this thread.  Had no real reason to mention it until now, but yeah, I really am laughing my ass off over here.  
> 
> Sure you responded to me in a civil manner. So did I.  You also brought up comparisons to other things to support your conclusions.  I simply replied to that.  All of a sudden you didn't like what I was saying and suggest I go somewhere else.  I get it, you think I am here trying to stir the pot.  But as you said, I am the only person providing the negative analysis.  As a trader, you should appreciate that fact.  You should also appreciate the fact that I provide more than just cryptic crypto chart.  
> 
> Another thing you need to know.  Trading bots that don't short don't make money.  I've never heard of a trading bot that all it does is enter and exit long positions that was successful.  Perhaps this is something new.  Perhaps I just haven't looked around enough.  But fact is, if all your bot is doing is entering and exiting long positions, you are missing out on at least 50% of the move that you are trading.  That 50% you will definitely need to cover your ass for the times when you bot $#@!s up and leaves you scratching your head, WHICH IT WILL.    
> 
> Anyways, that discussion hasn't been brought up yet either BECAUSE I am respecting the thread starter.  But there are some really simple things that I cannot just let go in a thread like this where someone is selling a product to others that I happen to care for and am concerned about.   Such as posting charts with no time scales.  That is TA sacrilege.  Other things like sharing of log scale price charts without any explanation and trying to hold that up in the face of historical prices.  That needs some salt as well. 
> ...


As I have said, it's not your analysis that I have a problem with, which you are trying to say it is.  I didn't "all of a sudden" stop liking your analysis.  You simply drifted off topic and started posting in fast succession with fundamental criticisms of the technology, which we are not discussing here.  It becomes tiresome.  

What you need to let go of is the rants about how bitcoin is worthless and starting shouting matches about the merits of the technology.  I simply don't want to hear it.  I already know the drawbacks, or else I wouldn't be here.  

And save us your conspiracy theories.  LibertyTeeth has said he didn't come here for you.  It's kind of egocentric thinking the discussion revolves around you, isn't it?  Believe me, I am not the only one who thinks you're being ridiculous.  If you weren't derailing the thread, you wouldn't need to defend yourself, yet here we are.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

//

----------


## newbitech

> As I have said, it's not your analysis that I have a problem with, which you are trying to say it is.  I didn't "all of a sudden" stop liking your analysis.  You simply drifted off topic and started posting in fast succession with fundamental criticisms of the technology, which we are not discussing here.  It becomes tiresome.  
> 
> What you need to let go of is the rants about how bitcoin is worthless and starting shouting matches about the merits of the technology.  I simply don't want to hear it.  I already know the drawbacks, or else I wouldn't be here.  
> 
> And save us your conspiracy theories.  LibertyTeeth has said he didn't come here for you.  It's kind of egocentric thinking the discussion revolves around you, isn't it?  Believe me, I am not the only one who thinks you're being ridiculous.  If you weren't derailing the thread, you wouldn't need to defend yourself, yet here we are.



I just try to respond to everyone who responds to me.   You make wild accusations about me and take it to a personal level.   I think you are probably should stay in this thread where it safe since I am not posting here any more.  I will however have my critique in another thread if you find the courage to actually think outside the box.  You are welcome.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I just try to respond to everyone who responds to me.   You make wild accusations about me and take it to a personal level.   I think you are probably should stay in this thread where it safe since I am not posting here any more.  I will however have my critique in another thread if you find the courage to actually think outside the box.  You are welcome.


I have no problem thinking outside the box.  I don't have to welcome your criticism of the technology in order to be aware of it.  This thread is for market analysis.  That's all.

----------


## presence

The Litepresence Report is temporarily suspended....


Hey guys... I haven't performed any market analysis lately and I just wanted to check in and let you know whats up.  I'm on the road using an older "mini laptop" I have had slow internet connection and lots of family related gatherings and personal business responsibilities.  I do not feel "in tune" with the crypto market right now and I have no means to manifest the really cool charts/graphics that I usually put out.  I really miss my desktop situation and can't wait to be at my home office again.  The litepresence report is temporarily on pause and should resume around April 25th.

Those of you with questions related to bots please contact me at rpfpresence@gmail.com.   Please realize my email and pms are packed and I'm struggling to keep up due to connectivity issues and a far less than ideal laptop situation.

I want to confirm that I am indeed using the user ID "litepresence2" at btce while I am on the road.  However, because it is a new account I am limited to 3 outgoing msgs per day.  Please use my email for most rapid response.

Also, I have received a few requests to get away from "gmail" because of its tendency to spy on users.  I understand and appreciate this concern and look towards moving to a more secure email platform early May 2014.  Right now I have all to do to keep up w/ what I have going with my fatt ffinggerrss and this slow ass mini laptop while visiting with inlaws, arranging birthday parties, dealing with out of town construction clients, tending issues at mom's beach house, etc etc etc.

I can't wait to be at crypto hermitting at home in the peaceful, quiet state forest with my dual monitor desktop and high speed internet.  

Due to technological challenges no updates to bot code will be available until at least mid-May.  However by June I expect to be developing scripts for both cryptotrader.org and tradewave.net.  I have been in contact with James from Tradewave, he's making great strides in development and should have his new bot trading platform live very shortly.  I very much look forward to bot development in python (as opposed to coffescript at cryptotrader) and of possibilities this new language and platform will open up.

I recommend checking in with "bitcoin" search criteria @ topsy, google news, and twitter.  The btce trollbox and coindesk are also great sources for ongoing updates.   I am currently holding good old fashioned BTC long with bots off, checking bitcoin news about once daily, but generally not trading.

I appreciate your understanding and wish you the best of luck in the markets.

crypto long, more coinz short!

litepresence

----------


## nayjevin

When do you expect that your bot will have any value for those who purchased it?

Do you plan to be in tune to the market enough to let your loyal customers know when using it won't hemhorage money?

Are you aware that backtests force market orders?  Do you reckon your customers do?

How can one believe that your finely tuned strategy is based on accurate assumptions given your predictions that have been most wrong have been most recent, and you are now not in touch with the market?

Why shouldn't one assume that you care about the trollbox more than RPF and those who have given you coin and received no updates?

Love,
Agorahippie 'people are inherently good' Misespooner

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> When do you expect that your bot will have any value for those who purchased it?
> 
> Do you plan to be in tune to the market enough to let your loyal customers know when using it won't hemhorage money?
> 
> Are you aware that backtests force market orders?  Do you reckon your customers do?
> 
> How can one believe that your finely tuned strategy is based on accurate assumptions given your predictions that have been most wrong have been most recent, and you are now not in touch with the market?
> 
> Why shouldn't one assume that you care about the trollbox more than RPF and those who have given you coin and received no updates?
> ...


Yeah, gotta say I don't like the vibe here.  It's starting to seem a bit shifty.  For instance, why suddenly go on vacation when the China floor falls through?  There may be a good explanation, but I haven't seen it yet, due to the fact that pres is doing all the things that scammers do when they have to explain their long-term absence to quell riotous behavior.

----------


## XTreat

> Yeah, gotta say I don't like the vibe here.  It's starting to seem a bit shifty.  For instance, why suddenly go on vacation when the China floor falls through?  There may be a good explanation, but I haven't seen it yet, due to the fact that pres is doing all the things that scammers do when they have to explain their long-term absence to quell riotous behavior.



How many bots did he sell from this thread? I don't think he would go through all the trouble he put into trying to share his knowledge to sell a handful (2-3?) of bots.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> How many bots did he sell from this thread? I don't think he would go through all the trouble he put into trying to share his knowledge to sell a handful (2-3?) of bots.


Of course we don't know those numbers.  I'm not saying it's for sure, though, just kinda skeptical right now.

----------


## muh_roads

He is communicating with people.  All my e-mails are being replied to from the last couple of days.  I am curious about a couple things nayjevin mentioned so I'll relay that, minus the attitude.

I know what it's like trying to type on message board forums with your phone.  It's a pain in the ass.  During that period it was sorta nice to be away from crypto.  I'm sure there is nothing deceitful going on here.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> He is communicating with people.  All my e-mails are being replied to from the last couple of days.  I am curious about a couple things nayjevin mentioned so I'll relay that, minus the attitude.
> 
> I know what it's like trying to type on message board forums with your phone.  It's a pain in the ass.  During that period it was sorta nice to be away from crypto.  I'm sure there is nothing deceitful going on here.


The fact that pres is a long-time member here makes me believe you're right.  The worst case scenario I could conceive of is that I think he may just be covering for the fact that he did not predict the last downswing.  It's really not that big of a deal if that's the case.  I just wondered why he disappeared so quickly and only updated weeks later.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> As I have said, it's not your analysis  that I have a problem with, which you are trying to say it is.  I didn't  "all of a sudden" stop liking your analysis.  You simply drifted off  topic and started posting in fast succession with fundamental criticisms  of the technology, which we are not discussing here.  It becomes  tiresome.  
> 
> What you need to let go of is the rants about how bitcoin is worthless  and starting shouting matches about the merits of the technology.  I  simply don't want to hear it.  I already know the drawbacks, or else I  wouldn't be here.  
> 
> And save us your conspiracy theories.  LibertyTeeth has said he didn't  come here for you.  It's kind of egocentric thinking the discussion  revolves around you, isn't it?  Believe me, I am not the only one who  thinks you're being ridiculous.  If you weren't derailing the thread,  you wouldn't need to defend yourself, yet here we are.


Thanks PaulConventionWV.  This other poster said 66% of my posts are  about him.  Well, nobody else was derailing the thread, and my first  post to litepresence went unanswered (likely because he's on a 3-week  vacation, from which he just came up for air briefly).  You're the first to mention me, so I responded.

A  little background, why I chose this handle: previously, it had been said  that bullets were "Liberty's Teeth".  I firmly believe that  cryptocurrencies are the new teeth; it will help to take down evil  organizations like the Federal Reserve & IRS (they go hand-in-hand),  the IMF, BIS, etc.

I've been following crypto for a little over a  year now.  Have bought some coins, and mined some coins.  Have some  equipment on order (from BFL, for about the duration I've been  following!  I upgraded to the Monarch instead of taking delivery of  Little Singles late in the game).  Glad I got some GPUs while I am  waiting, but overclocking fried a few of them.  Learning curve, etc.   For any miners out there, a $12 box fan is essential, one per computer.

And,  in looking up who said the quote I referenced above, it turns out that  it was attributed to George Washington, but he in fact never said it:  http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_...y-teeth-g.html   So my name is in reference to a mis-attributed quote, but that's okay. 

Edit: btw, this other poster isn't spouting "conspiracy theories"; a theory is a hypothesis with data backing it.  So these are more "conspiracy hypotheses", or perhaps "conspiracy hallucinations".

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thanks PaulConventionWV.  This other poster said 66% of my posts are  about him.  Well, nobody else was derailing the thread, and my first  post to litepresence went unanswered (likely because he's on a 3-week  vacation, from which he just came up for air briefly).  You're the first to mention me, so I responded.
> 
> A  little background, why I chose this handle: previously, it had been said  that bullets were "Liberty's Teeth".  I firmly believe that  cryptocurrencies are the new teeth; it will help to take down evil  organizations like the Federal Reserve & IRS (they go hand-in-hand),  the IMF, BIS, etc.
> 
> I've been following crypto for a little over a  year now.  Have bought some coins, and mined some coins.  Have some  equipment on order (from BFL, for about the duration I've been  following!  I upgraded to the Monarch instead of taking delivery of  Little Singles late in the game).  Glad I got some GPUs while I am  waiting, but overclocking fried a few of them.  Learning curve, etc.   For any miners out there, a $12 box fan is essential, one per computer.
> 
> And,  in looking up who said the quote I referenced above, it turns out that  it was attributed to George Washington, but he in fact never said it:  http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_...y-teeth-g.html   So my name is in reference to a mis-attributed quote, but that's okay. 
> 
> Edit: btw, this other poster isn't spouting "conspiracy theories"; a theory is a hypothesis with data backing it.  So these are more "conspiracy hypotheses", or perhaps "conspiracy hallucinations".


Welcome to the fora.  

I completely understand what you're saying about conspiracy theories.  I don't like the term myself, but I didn't really take the time to correct myself.  You are absolutely right, though.  Being paranoid is much different than having facts to back up your position.  In fact, most "conspiracies" really should be quite obvious by now, but the sheep willfully blind themselves.

----------


## muh_roads

I decided to take one for the team and I can safely say that pres' bot should not be used.  At least right now.  It has done nothing but lose me money.  It keeps buying too late into these mini-rallies and then it panic sells for a loss.  It is almost like clockwork.  Back-testing and live trading are two different things.

Very disappointed given all the hype.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> I decided to take one for the team and I can safely say that pres' bot should not be used.  At least right now.  It has done nothing but lose me money.  It keeps buying too late into these mini-rallies and then it panic sells for a loss.  It is almost like clockwork.  Back-testing and live trading are two different things.
> 
> Very disappointed given all the hype.


The 5/11 (E)MA bot definitely doesn't work during red dragons / panic phase. It might work better in the rising market / pre bubble.
If you're talking about the "dragon slayer" thing, then I do not know, haven't seen the source 
Is that a "concave fail" bot to estimate tops ? I have no clue what it might do to estimate bottoms.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I decided to take one for the team and I can safely say that pres' bot should not be used.  At least right now.  It has done nothing but lose me money.  It keeps buying too late into these mini-rallies and then it panic sells for a loss.  It is almost like clockwork.  Back-testing and live trading are two different things.
> 
> Very disappointed given all the hype.


I'm sorry to hear that.  I have to say, though, it makes sense given my mantra of, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."  I've been trading through the sideways movement and still making about as much as a second minimum wage job would, minus gas costs and taxes.

----------


## muh_roads

> The 5/11 (E)MA bot definitely doesn't work during red dragons / panic phase. It might work better in the rising market / pre bubble.
> If you're talking about the "dragon slayer" thing, then I do not know, haven't seen the source 
> Is that a "concave fail" bot to estimate tops ? I have no clue what it might do to estimate bottoms.


I'm using dragon slayer v2.0 part A.  You could be right.  It may just need the swings to have greater volatility.  25 to 50 cent swings aren't enough for this one.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I saw your other post about head and shoulders, and I'm beginning to think the other shoulder is forming now.  The lows are higher and the volume is lower.  The bears are running out of ammo.  It's shaky and it feels like it could go either way, but it's moments like these that present the best buying opportunities.  I could be wrong, but it looks like we're in a good position to break out of the long triangle.

My only question is: Have we really put this China situation behind us or is there still a possibility of something happening on April 15th?  Is there really any news that could come out about that to throw a wrench in the works?

----------


## muh_roads

Argh.  It should be buying right now.  Not selling.  Damn thing.

The pres red dragon PPC actually doesn't do too bad.  It seems to wait until a rise to sell like it should.

If people want more details, create a hushmail account and I'll share the log output.  https://www.hushmail.com/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Argh.  It should be buying right now.  Not selling.  Damn thing.
> 
> The pres red dragon PPC actually doesn't do too bad.  It seems to wait until a rise to sell like it should.
> 
> If people want more details, create a hushmail account and I'll share the log output.


Turn it off, buy and hold.  It's really starting to look like that other shoulder.

----------


## amonasro

Yeah, I'd turn off the bot at this point. Part a is designed for a bull market and I believe uses EMA crossovers--It probably won't do so well in the current bear market. 

This is why he tested part a during the huge LTC pump recently, to see when it would sell during a period that mimics the beginning of a bubble. Not only that (and since you cannot backtest this feature) he wanted to test the incremental buy/sell feature so as to not sell too much at one time, burning through others' sell orders at ever-lower prices and alerting other traders to your presence. It did very well. 

Personally I think it's a pretty ingenious design--ingenious enough that, having poured over past market data for weeks now, I won't be talking about it much (first rule of Bot Club...). Feel free to PM me if you want the lowdown.

Regarding Pres' absence, I'd chalk it up to bad timing. He's taken time to answer many of my very specific questions fully and I have no doubt the bot will perform well given similar conditions it was designed for. 

I think (as most of us did) that Gox was the final capitulation of the bubble and we could get this market moving sooner than we thought. We just have to wait it out longer with the China situation.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, I'd turn off the bot at this point. Part a is designed for a bull market and I believe uses EMA crossovers--It probably won't do so well in the current bear market. 
> 
> This is why he tested part a during the huge LTC pump recently, to see when it would sell during a period that mimics the beginning of a bubble. Not only that (and since you cannot backtest this feature) he wanted to test the incremental buy/sell feature so as to not sell too much at one time, burning through others' sell orders at ever-lower prices and alerting other traders to your presence. It did very well. 
> 
> Personally I think it's a pretty ingenious design--ingenious enough that, having poured over past market data for weeks now, I won't be talking about it much (first rule of Bot Club...). Feel free to PM me if you want the lowdown.
> 
> Regarding Pres' absence, I'd chalk it up to bad timing. He's taken time to answer many of my very specific questions fully and I have no doubt the bot will perform well given similar conditions it was designed for. 
> 
> I think (as most of us did) that Gox was the final capitulation of the bubble and we could get this market moving sooner than we thought. We just have to wait it out longer with the China situation.


Cool.   Yeah I'd like to bounce some questions off you.  Will PM later tonight.  Thank you sir.

----------


## muh_roads

As we $#@! the bed due to a whale dump tonight, I see Red Dragon NMC is buying right now.  Clever girl?  I find that interesting because Red Dragon's favor fiat but it chose not to sell my holdings and buy aggressively.  Pretty cool.  PPC moves similar but that one is not doing anything...

I'm tempted to turn on Red Dragon LTC.  Dragon Slayer Part A was turned off earlier today.

edit:  Has anyone messed with the "Tick Offset" before turning a bot on?

amonsaro, I have questions.  But I got side-tracked tonight with other crap.  Will PM you tomorrow.  melatonin is kicking in.  'night.  I'm gonna let Red Dragon LTC run overnight and will update tomorrow morning.

----------


## amonasro

There goes China again... the support line for a right shoulder is holding although it could fall lower. Below 2410 and the reversal begins to fall apart. Hopefully it is priced in and volume dries up.

Funny how market sentiment works. 

Bull market: Good news, price flies up. Bad news, nothing or flash crash/instant recovery.
Bear market: Good news, nothing. Bad news, market poops its pants.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> There goes China again... the support line for a right shoulder is holding although it could fall lower. Below 2410 and the reversal begins to fall apart. Hopefully it is priced in and volume dries up.
> 
> Funny how market sentiment works. 
> 
> Bull market: Good news, price flies up. Bad news, nothing or flash crash/instant recovery.
> Bear market: Good news, nothing. Bad news, market poops its pants.


In the end, the market reigns supreme.  Fundamentals are secondary unless they are completely vital.

I must say that last move really surprised me, although I'm also happy to say that I slept in fiat.  It looks like a real mess.  I'm not even sure what caused the last move down yet, but I don't like what that volume is doing.  I had a sense that I should exit the market when I saw bulls make a run last night and quickly get squashed by a bear rebellion.  I may just wait and see which way it goes before acting at all.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I just found out what happened.  Doesn't China ever get tired of banning bitcoin?  

Also, so the news turned out to be true?  Isn't that weird how we can hear an unconfirmed rumor weeks in advance, proven false before it is ultimately proven true?  

It'll be interesting to see if the market holds up.  Banning bitcoin must be a daily morning routine for China by now.  Time to forget about China.

EDIT: $#@!, it just happened.  The question now is, where will it stop?

----------


## muh_roads

Yeah this China FUD is intense.

----------


## muh_roads

okay red dragon NMC, I own enough NMC now.  Time to pause you.  lol

----------


## Dianne

> okay red dragon NMC, I own enough NMC now.  Time to pause you.  lol


I was thinking of grabbing some NMC as well, but geesh, the FUD will probably get worse and worse each day until April 16th.    It may be 30 cents on April 15 lol

----------


## btcltc

Do you guys tuink NMC will go past 5 dollars again? its currently at 1.5...

----------


## muh_roads

> Do you guys tuink NMC will go past 5 dollars again? its currently at 1.5...


Yes, easily.  But probably not for a little while.

----------


## Dianne

I'm taking a hard look at NVC also.    Wasn't NVC higher than LTC before the Chinese market?

----------


## muh_roads

> I was thinking of grabbing some NMC as well, but geesh, the FUD will probably get worse and worse each day until April 16th.    It may be 30 cents on April 15 lol


Just had to turn off the PPC Red Dragon.  I own enough now...christ...lol

Only thing on right now is BTC & LTC Red Dragons

If we rebound slightly I think I'll sell the NMC & PPC.  350-300 will be tested sometime between now and the 15th.

At these prices Wall Street probably wants in bad.  I think the next 2 weeks is going to be some crazy supply and demand action.

----------


## btcltc

> Yes, easily.  But probably not for a little while.


Alright, but how long is a little while? Are we talking weeks, months? or a year?

----------


## Dianne

> Just had to turn off the PPC Red Dragon.  I own enough now...christ...lol
> 
> Only thing on right now is BTC & LTC Red Dragons
> 
> If we rebound slightly I think I'll sell the NMC & PPC.  350-300 will be tested sometime between now and the 15th.
> 
> At these prices Wall Street probably wants in bad.  I think the next 2 weeks is going to be some crazy supply and demand action.


I'm falling victim to trollbox chatter in which they say LTC was nothing until it entered the Chinese market ...   And although I don't believe for one second that China has banned yuan deposits and withdrawals through their conventional banking system; everyone else does.   Soooooooooooooooooooo , does that make LTC less valuable than NVC if China is really "considered" out?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Alright, but how long is a little while? Are we talking weeks, months? or a year?


My guess is months, perhaps over a year.  Cryptos aren't going to recover that easy from this blow.  We've broken the long-term uptrend and the chances of reversal are virtually nil in the near future.

----------


## muh_roads

These guys are happy...

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/sta...91450353295360

----------


## muh_roads

hmmm, 225-250 is starting to feel like a possibility now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Alright, but how long is a little while? Are we talking weeks, months? or a year?


Without China this is anybody's guess.  A year is a long time though.  Months IMO.  But you could catch a candle wick spike in weeks.  Set your limit orders.

----------


## muh_roads

We're bouncing back up a bit.  Take your profits if you followed it down like I did today.  It'll probably be another down trend again for the next few days.  This feels like manipulation in wall streets favor so they can get more in.

----------


## amonasro

I'm inclined to think we're seeing something bigger now. $380 holding steady tonight, but the coming days will determine if there is enough buying pressure to pull us out of it. Remember markets tend to fall on their own weight, so it takes more buying volume to achieve escape velocity, so to speak. We need tall green bars. 

The real question is what will China do in the coming weeks and months. Will Chinese exchanges be slowly cut off from fiat by Chinese banks? Will the exchanges move to Hong Kong which has different rules on currency control? Will btc ultimately move to the grey/black market there? These are questions that investors (myself included) will be exploring in detail. The Chinese government is so different from Europe and the US that much of the understanding of the situation is lost in translation, both culturally and linguistically.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm inclined to think we're seeing something bigger now. $380 holding steady tonight, but the coming days will determine if there is enough buying pressure to pull us out of it. Remember markets tend to fall on their own weight, so it takes more buying volume to achieve escape velocity, so to speak. We need tall green bars.


Hey if I had left the Red Dragon NMC/LTC/PPC running would it be selling right now on this upswing?

----------


## amonasro

> Hey if I had left the Red Dragon NMC/LTC/PPC running would it be selling right now on this upswing?


Probably not. It might try to sell dips but I haven't actually seen the code so I can't be sure. I think it uses RSI to detect how overbought/oversold the market is and if that's the case it would be buying pretty hard right now.

A pretty intense upswing in progress now, part of me thinks this could be a flash dip similar to what we saw on 12/18 and 2/25 on the daily charts. Biggest green 12h candle forming in quite some time.

----------


## KCIndy

> A pretty intense upswing in progress now, part of me thinks this could be a flash dip similar to what we saw on 12/18 and 2/25 on the daily charts. Biggest green 12h candle forming in quite some time.



Wall Street buying in at a manipulated low?  I think Paladin69 may have called it right.

----------


## muh_roads

> Wall Street buying in at a manipulated low?  I think Paladin69 may have called it right.


Check this out...

http://www.coindesk.com/chinas-centr...t-ban-bitcoin/

Somebody is playing games.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Check this out...
> 
> http://www.coindesk.com/chinas-centr...t-ban-bitcoin/
> 
> Somebody is playing games.


Ok, so first it wasn't true, then it was true, now it's not true again?  What in the hell is going on?

----------


## lotsOfCake

I'm watching this for the fun:
http://www.btcpredictions.com/
Obviously it's _not very accurate_, the "%" is probably the percentage of listed price, so at $450, 5% is 25 bucks error rate.
Also the "24 hour" and the "weekly" charts don't estimate the same data at all.

Yes, coindesk has good news. Also there's that "investment firm now holds 100000btc" news, and the gradually reinforced "chinese exchanges will find workarounds / open something in other asian countries". 

I'm bullish on the short/medium, mostly in already (bought with a spread, 430 to 330), but another dip wouldn't surprise me.

The whole "weekend" and "upcoming bad news" stuff is chilling.

Also i am trying to keep with the "buy on red candle, sell on green candle" philosophy, but afraid to be too much in fiat in the long term.

----------


## lotsOfCake

Anyone have opinions on PrimeCoin (XPM) ? There is a GPU miner out, and the hashrate (so to speak) seems to be growing. Usually a good sign.

----------


## muh_roads

> Anyone have opinions on PrimeCoin (XPM) ? There is a GPU miner out, and the hashrate (so to speak) seems to be growing. Usually a good sign.


Its main appeal was that it would stay as a CPU only coin.  I think this could hurt it.  It doesn't really do anything new.  I've noticed on Cryptsy that the XPM to alt markets have been removed.

It'll go up and down.  If you want some buy low, I don't think it has lasting appeal.  But then again I didn't expect Zetacoin to go from 90 satoshi's to 6,000 satoshi's.

----------


## lotsOfCake

I can confirm that it also isn't fpga or asic safe, so it isn't "consumer PC only" either.

----------


## lotsOfCake

I'm pretty worried short-term, looking at the indicators right now....

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm pretty worried short-term, looking at the indicators right now....


Which indicators are you looking at?  Also, define short term.

----------


## lotsOfCake

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/huobi/btccny 30m candles.
with EMA 5/11/30 and MACD
I was looking at all 3 ema lines crossing, and macd also crossing. but the last hour has been up, so i don't know anymore. 
Also i saw "head and shoulders" on 30m and 6h. and this: http://www.coindesk.com/whither-price-bitcoin/
So I'm not going to claim i know what's going to happen, but i am feeling a worried anticipation.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/huobi/btccny 30m candles.
> with EMA 5/11/30 and MACD
> I was looking at all 3 ema lines crossing, and macd also crossing. but the last hour has been up, so i don't know anymore. 
> Also i saw "head and shoulders" on 30m and 6h. and this: http://www.coindesk.com/whither-price-bitcoin/
> So I'm not going to claim i know what's going to happen, but i am feeling a worried anticipation.


So, is this a good worry, or a worry worry?  Head and shoulders is a good thing, right?

----------


## muh_roads

Like I said, this China FUD aint over.  They aren't banning Bitcoin, but they are preventing banks from letting cash go to and from the exchanges.

Somebody or a group told them to do that (wall street?).  That someone or group knew it would drop the price.  That someone or group wants cheaper coins.

My fiat is ready.  Be greedy when others are fearful.  I personally think we'll be testing $350 again leading up to a few days surrounding the 15th.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Like I said, this China FUD aint over.  They aren't banning Bitcoin, but they are preventing banks from letting cash go to and from the exchanges.
> 
> Somebody or a group told them to do that (wall street?).  That someone or group knew it would drop the price.  That someone or group wants cheaper coins.
> 
> My fiat is ready.  Be greedy when others are fearful.  I personally think we'll be testing $350 again leading up to a few days surrounding the 15th.


But if we really saw a head and shoulders, does it make any sense for us to have a double bottom like you are suggesting?

----------


## muh_roads

> But if we really saw a head and shoulders, does it make any sense for us to have a double bottom like you are suggesting?


I'm not an expert in chart analysis, but the one thing I think I've learned from using the pres bots is that no matter how good your code or analysis is, predicting this type of market is really tough even if you are factoring in all the indicators.

Bitcoin is just something we've never seen before and as a whole, there still aren't nearly as many people who trade BTC as they do trading wall street stocks.  Chart analysis is a good guide but in the end we are all still trying to predict what each other is going to do regarding something that human history has never attempted.  The majority of people still involved are panicking pussies that only view BTC in dollar amounts and don't see the bigger picture.

I think trading Bitcoin based on news and rumors is the best route to take if you want to stay ahead of the crowd.  pres was wrong on 042 LTC because the China news was something no chart analysis could predict.

There is a guy on twitter I follow named ProTraderTips who trades crypto and metals.  When pres said 042, PTT's estimates shortly after was 031.  It was far more accurate because he spends all day performing his due-diligence based on news & rumors.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not an expert in chart analysis, but the one thing I think I've learned from using the pres bots is that no matter how good your code or analysis is, predicting this type of market is really tough even if you are factoring in all the indicators.
> 
> Bitcoin is just something we've never seen before and as a whole, there still aren't nearly as many people who trade BTC as they do trading wall street stocks.  Chart analysis is a good guide but in the end we are all still trying to predict what each other is going to do regarding something that human history has never attempted.  The majority of people still involved are panicking pussies that only view BTC in dollar amounts and don't see the bigger picture.
> 
> I think trading Bitcoin based on news and rumors is the best route to take if you want to stay ahead of the crowd.  pres was wrong on 042 LTC because the China news was something no chart analysis could predict.
> 
> There is a guy on twitter I follow named ProTraderTips who trades crypto and metals.  When pres said 042, PTT's estimates shortly after was 031.  It was far more accurate because he spends all day performing his due-diligence based on news & rumors.


Trading based on news and rumors is iffy.  Chances are, fundamentals you are aware of have already been priced into the market before you knew about them.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> But if we really saw a head and shoulders, does it make any sense for us to have a double bottom like you are suggesting?




As usual *I'm not going to claim I know the future*  Just illustrating one "head and shoulders" where the larger scale has a double bottom reversal, first at april 11th, second at april 13-14 ish maybe. 

Could also illustrate a larger "head and shoulders" pattern where my green stick man is just the head.

Edit: just noticed the volume is low the last hour. Especially on btc-e ltc/usd. (Meaning it is not a good indication of a trend)

----------


## muh_roads

> Trading based on news and rumors is iffy.  Chances are, fundamentals you are aware of have already been priced into the market before you knew about them.


He uses both.  I don't want to poo on those that are good with charts.  Keep 'em coming.  I like all info.

----------


## Dianne

> Like I said, this China FUD aint over.  They aren't banning Bitcoin, but they are preventing banks from letting cash go to and from the exchanges.
> 
> Somebody or a group told them to do that (wall street?).  That someone or group knew it would drop the price.  That someone or group wants cheaper coins.
> 
> My fiat is ready.  Be greedy when others are fearful.  I personally think we'll be testing $350 again leading up to a few days surrounding the 15th.


I'm thinking the same thing.    I missed the $7.00 and change litecoin the other night...   Great stuff always happens when I'm in bed ( .

----------


## Dianne

> As usual *I'm not going to claim I know the future*  Just illustrating one "head and shoulders" where the larger scale has a double bottom reversal, first at april 11th, second at april 13-14 ish maybe. 
> 
> Could also illustrate a larger "head and shoulders" pattern where my green stick man is just the head.
> 
> Edit: just noticed the volume is low the last hour. Especially on btc-e ltc/usd. (Meaning it is not a good indication of a trend)


The 13th technically begins nine hours, my east coast time.     If you were going to set an LTC buy order before bed, how much would it be?

----------


## amonasro

> As usual *I'm not going to claim I know the future*  Just illustrating one "head and shoulders" where the larger scale has a double bottom reversal, first at april 11th, second at april 13-14 ish maybe. 
> 
> Could also illustrate a larger "head and shoulders" pattern where my green stick man is just the head.
> 
> Edit: just noticed the volume is low the last hour. Especially on btc-e ltc/usd. (Meaning it is not a good indication of a trend)


Remember that in TA, the larger the pattern the more significance it has. A 15 or 30 minute head & shoulders is not nearly as significant as a daily head & shoulders. You can find miniature versions of them in these small timeframes but they really difficult to spot. When you want to know how far it will drop, measure the distance from the top of the head to the neckline, then the same distance downward from the neckline. This gives you a general area to find support/resistance levels in which to place your trade. I simply place a ruler against my monitor to do this 

Trading 15/30 minute charts is difficult. I would look at larger timelines first (at least 6h) to get an overall view of where we've been and where we might go. Then zoom in to smaller timeframes to see what the market might do next within that broader context.

What you posted might interpreted a continuation pattern, which I plan to update my TA post with examples of. It's when the market doesn't know what it's doing next and moves sideways, consolidating as it goes. Volume declines during this period until it breaks out in either direction, usually in the direction of the prior trend. 

Also, a h&s can _sometimes_ be a continuation pattern! How's that for confusion?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Remember that in TA, the larger the pattern the more significance it has. A 15 or 30 minute head & shoulders is not nearly as significant as a daily head & shoulders. You can find miniature versions of them in these small timeframes but they really difficult to spot. When you want to know how far it will drop, measure the distance from the top of the head to the neckline, then the same distance downward from the neckline. This gives you a general area to find support/resistance levels in which to place your trade. I simply place a ruler against my monitor to do this 
> 
> Trading 15/30 minute charts is difficult. I would look at larger timelines first (at least 6h) to get an overall view of where we've been and where we might go. Then zoom in to smaller timeframes to see what the market might do next within that broader context.
> 
> What you posted might interpreted a continuation pattern, which I plan to update my TA post with examples of. It's when the market doesn't know what it's doing next and moves sideways, consolidating as it goes. Volume declines during this period until it breaks out in either direction, usually in the direction of the prior trend. 
> 
> Also, a h&s can _sometimes_ be a continuation pattern! How's that for confusion?


It sure seems to take away from the significance of a h&s if that's true. 

When you say to measure the same distance from the top of the head to the neckline, down from the neckline, what does that mean?  It seems like you're saying to simply look at the top of the head (in a reverse h&s).

----------


## lotsOfCake

Litepresence, come back! Need you to estimate the bottom :-D

Edit: just for openness; i am holding some ltc (10-15% ish) and not selling them during a drop. i don't sell on big red candles. i try to buy when the velocity of the drop slows down. So don't do anything crazy, guys :->

----------


## muh_roads

> Litepresence, come back! Need you to estimate the bottom :-D
> 
> Edit: just for openness; i am holding some ltc (10-15% ish) and not selling them during a drop. i don't sell on big red candles. i try to buy when the velocity of the drop slows down. So don't do anything crazy, guys :->


I talked with him last night.  He was on the final leg of his cross-country 2700 mile journey back home from visiting family.

We're below $10 LTC.  More blood could be shed as we approach the 15th.  My fiat is ready.

----------


## muh_roads

Have you guys heard of m-pesa?  It's a mobile payment processing company for African regions using nothing more than SMS text messages, not QR codes or software apps.  They are apparently going to be integrating Zetacoin / ZET

$#@!coins are always hard to tell if they are pure pump & dump scams...but this apparently might be the real deal.

Play at your own risk.  I'm getting some.  If true this could send each ZET to $1-$5.  That's a price range that might even cause btc-e to add it since they only try to keep the top ones.

----------


## KCIndy

> Have you guys heard of m-pesa?  It's a mobile payment processing company for African regions using nothing more than SMS text messages, not QR codes or software apps.  They are apparently going to be integrating Zetacoin / ZET



Is that the one being run by the exiled Nigerian general who wants my bank account info?      (Just kiddin'!!  I'll have to check it out.)

----------


## muh_roads

> Is that the one being run by the exiled Nigerian general who wants my bank account info?      (Just kiddin'!!  I'll have to check it out.)


lol

Like I said...be careful.  But it seems to be all the rage on twitter right now.

I had a bunch around 700 sat and it shot to 2000 when I sold.  I should've held longer.  Oh well.

----------


## muh_roads

A guy talking about alts at the latest NYC convention...interesting perspective.

----------


## muh_roads

Anyone wanna do some chart analysis on Zeta?  Look at the 1-month chart...

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/85

Millions of Kenyans use M-Pesa.  This Zeta $#@! is still only rumors for now...which was how it flew upward...

----------


## Dianne

Are any of you with bots, buying NMC and PPC in the low $1.60's range now?

----------


## muh_roads

> Are any of you with bots, buying NMC and PPC in the low $1.60's range now?


I was last week when it dropped that low.  The bot was buying like crazy.  I haven't turned it back on yet.  I'm somewhat comfortable with my position in those.

----------


## Dianne

> I was last week when it dropped that low.  The bot was buying like crazy.  I haven't turned it back on yet.  I'm somewhat comfortable with my position in those.


Kewl, thanks !!!

----------


## muh_roads

What is up with Blackcoin / BC?

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/179

That is quite the missed opportunity.

----------


## kpitcher

I see some comments that 4000 btc traded BC today. I see another that mintpal exchange is being DDOS so the price is being raised at other exchanges.

If I have the info correct, 10,000 coins every minute with no total cap. I don't see how it can rise too much more by this point. Still good money for those who got involved.

----------


## muh_roads

> I see some comments that 4000 btc traded BC today. I see another that mintpal exchange is being DDOS so the price is being raised at other exchanges.
> 
> If I have the info correct, 10,000 coins every minute with no total cap. I don't see how it can rise too much more by this point. Still good money for those who got involved.


From what I understand it can't be mined anymore because it switched from PoW to PoS after a period of time...doesn't make sense...who secures the transactions?

Looks like it is starting to tumble now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Kewl, thanks !!!


Been looking at that NVC you seem interested in.  It does seem way undervalued.  You could probably make a 10-20% profit on it fairly easily.

----------


## amonasro

> It sure seems to take away from the significance of a h&s if that's true. 
> 
> When you say to measure the same distance from the top of the head to the neckline, down from the neckline, what does that mean?  It seems like you're saying to simply look at the top of the head (in a reverse h&s).


It all depends on the timeframe you are looking at... Market patterns are like fractals, as you zoom in there are patterns within patterns. The bigger the pattern, the more traders and volume behind it. If you zoomed into a section on a daily chart, you would see dozens of reversal and continuation patterns playing out on the 1h scale, and even more on the 15m scale. For instance during yesterday and today's move upwards, there are multiple bullish pennants and couple h&s patterns, and that's just one daily green candle. 

Pictures are worth a thousand words in this case, I think 







> Anyone wanna do some chart analysis on Zeta?  Look at the 1-month chart...
> 
> https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/85


My 2c: It looks similar to the way a BTC bubble is constructed. Back in December it got pumped pretty hard though, and this past pump failed to reach those heights. To me the corrective phase is over and it may enter a consolidation phase for awhile. I would watch that it does not rise too quickly on low volume, and that the breakout from the double bottom is not a false one. Typically we need to see heavy buy volume to bring us out of the corrective phases of these bubbles and establish support levels, signifying mass increased interest and not just a few players pumping & dumping.

----------


## presence

Whats up RPF.  I'm back!! 2700 mile road trip complete.   This week will be 100% bitcoins.  Bot building.  Catching up w/ clients.  Market analysis.  Charts.  News.   


The Litepresence Report on Cryptocurrency is back in session!






https://coinreport.net/bitcoin-price-increase-pboc-governor/





> *Bitcoin Price Increases by 10% Amid Comments From PBOC Governor*_Posted On 14 Apr 2014_
> _By : Sid M. Zagaeski_
> _Comment: 0_
> _Tag: Bitcoin Price, China, PBOC_
> 
> 
> Bitcoin has been on a roller coaster ever since Mt Gox collapsed and rumors came out that the People’s Bank of China (PBOC) is looking to restrict Bitcoin. However, today, Bitcoin price increased by a good 10% amidst the comments made by PBOC’s governor Zhou Xiaochuan recently. Bitcoin’s price is over $460 as of now, per Bitstamp price quote.
> *Bitcoin Price Increase*The PBOC’s governor, Xiaochuan, commented on a Boao Forum that China has no plans to ban Bitcoin. A Boao Forum is a conference where people address and try to figure out economic solutions for Asia. Xiaochuan had said,
> “It is out of the question of banning bitcoin as it is not started by central bank.”This statement by itself carries the much needed relief amidst rumors that PBOC was planning on banning Bitcoin. It reassures users, investors, companies, and speculators that Bitcoin will not be banned in China. Hence, Bitcoin price increased partly due to the news. Xiaochuan also suggested an approach for how to classify Bitcoin,
> ...

----------


## presence

Bitcoin promoter Shrem indicted in NY for money laundering
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3D1RU20140414


Can You Use Bitcoin for a Tax Haven?
http://btc-news-bot.tumblr.com/post/...-offshore-bank


Survey Results: 96% of Merchants Would Recommend Bitcoin to Peers
coindesk.com/survey-results-96-of-merchants-would-recommend-bitcoin-peers


` How the FBI became the Wealthiest ` Bitcoin ' Operator in the World just by shutting down Silk Road '
brittius.com/2014/04/14/how-the-fbi-became-the-wealthiest-bitcoin-operator-in-the-world-just-by-shutting-down-silk-road


Everything You Need to Know About Bitcoin in 2 Minutes
http://mashable.com/2014/02/11/masha...N1cTg4bjVwZSJ9


Amazon rejects Bitcoin, has big plans for other payments solutions
seekingalpha.com/news/1673793-amazon-rejects-bitcoin-has-big-plans-for-other-payments-solutions


George from Honey here. Introducing HoneyCoin, the bitcoin payment product we promised to build : Bitcoin
reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2316f7/george_from_honey_here_introducing_honeycoin_the


​Why Bitcoin Is Hurting Amazon And Benefitting Its Competitors : Article
smallcapnetwork.com/Why-Bitcoin-Is-Hurting-Amazon-And-Benefitting-Its-Competitors/s/via/25203/article/view/p/mid/1/id/6


Bitcoin a bit confusing for feds, documents show
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/14...documents-show


Bitcoin bound for guns and gold crowd
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28ba6e9c-b...44feabdc0.html


Bitcoin Investment Trust Has Bitcoins Worth $40 Million, $20 Million Less than December 2013
http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/b...ber-2013-28783


British boss of Bitcoin virtual currency firm is wanted in Cyprus on suspicion of fraud
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ion-fraud.html


Real world more welcoming to people laden with Bitcoins
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...-bitcoins.html


Bitcoin Price Strong Appreciation to Be Followed by Declines?
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article45210.html


What Facebooks Mobile Money Plans May Mean for Bitcoin
http://www.coindesk.com/facebooks-mo...-mean-bitcoin/


Bitcoin finally pays off -- in secure cloud storage
http://www.infoworld.com/t/encryptio...storage-240386


Photographer Dives Into the Strange, Subversive World of Bitcoin
http://www.wired.com/2014/04/megan-miller-bitcoin/


A bitcoin knockoff for Insane Clown Posse fans: JuggaloCoin
http://boingboing.net/2014/04/14/a-b...or-insane.html


Can bitcoin help migrant workers?
http://www.fastcoexist.com/3028938/c...igrant-workers


Bitcoin growth slows 
http://www.examiner.com/article/bitcoin-growth-slows


Bitcoin Price Increases by 10% Amid Comments From PBOC Governor
https://coinreport.net/bitcoin-price...pboc-governor/

----------


## Dianne

Well I decided not to look any more...   I bought some PPC and some LTC ..  And I keep falling for the bs in the trollbox, and always lose money ..

So not even going to look for a week (Lie, will look tomorrow), but I do need to just buy and hold and stop trying to be a day trader...  I'm getting bitch raped.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well I decided not to look any more...   I bought some PPC and some LTC ..  And I keep falling for the bs in the trollbox, and always lose money ..
> 
> So not even going to look for a week (Lie, will look tomorrow), but I do need to just buy and hold and stop trying to be a day trader...  I'm getting bitch raped.


I'm definitely favoring fiat right now.  I wouldn't expect another bubble for quite a while.  Those who missed out on the last two really missed out.

----------


## btcltc

Holy crap, why has NMC hopped up almost 1.5 dollars. what happened. You could almost make 2x ur input if you bought nmc a few days ago.

----------


## nayjevin

Top Reasons I Don't Have Food

1. My liberty buddies charts and advice
2. Believing in utility value I.e. xpm and nmc
3. Not being in USD Fiat

Yay the future!  For others

----------


## Dianne

> Holy crap, why has NMC hopped up almost 1.5 dollars. what happened. You could almost make 2x ur input if you bought nmc a few days ago.


Yeah, I made a little money on PPC, now I'm hoping ppc and nmc will drop back down to under $2.00.   I had no idea at one time nmc was valued just under 15.00 per coin.    I doubt we will see $15.00 again, but it currently it seems to be under valued a lot.

----------


## muh_roads

Got NMC in @ $1.50 - $1.70

Yep, doubling cash is nice.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, I made a little money on PPC, now I'm hoping ppc and nmc will drop back down to under $2.00.   I had no idea at one time nmc was valued just under 15.00 per coin.    I doubt we will see $15.00 again, but it currently it seems to be under valued a lot.


They all move when BTC has moves.  It'll be there again.  But it'll probably drop back again short-term.

----------


## muh_roads

> Top Reasons I Don't Have Food
> 
> 1. My liberty buddies charts and advice
> 2. Believing in utility value I.e. xpm and nmc
> 3. Not being in USD Fiat
> 
> Yay the future!  For others


I'm learning to not get too married to a coin.  If it doesn't move the way I want, I get out and accept the small loss.  Not going to make the same mistake I did with Doge.

----------


## djthistle01

Dianne - NMC will go way past $15 in the next bubble. seriously could hit $60 if it runs the same fractal pattern as BTC. The 7month wave has yet to fail on BTC, and rising tides raise all boats right? (ps, I am not currently holding NMC)

Broke Guy - If gold can be manipulated of course this whole sector is. After learning the hard way, like most of us by the sounds of it, I rarely hold more than 50% when I sleep.

LP - Nice to have you back. Decided to join here just because of you....awwwwwe, haha. Anyways, love them 1000+mile inlaw trips, done many times myself. 

Not sure if you use this or not. Decent chartists there too. https://www.tradingview.com/s/bitcoin/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm definitely favoring fiat right now.  I wouldn't expect another bubble for quite a while.  Those who missed out on the last two really missed out.


Come to think of it, I may have been wrong about this.  If BTC stays where it is for the rest of the day, I'm inclined to think it will continue to move up.  That'll show me to question BTC again.  If I was smart I would have stayed in when I bought yesterday and not simply sold for meager gains.  Good thing I bought in earlier today and am already experiencing gains.  Truth be told, I don't know what the future will be, but I'm learning to be optimistic about this.

----------


## djthistle01

> Come to think of it, I may have been wrong about this.  If BTC stays where it is for the rest of the day, I'm inclined to think it will continue to move up.  That'll show me to question BTC again.  If I was smart I would have stayed in when I bought yesterday and not simply sold for meager gains.  Good thing I bought in earlier today and am already experiencing gains.  Truth be told, I don't know what the future will be, but I'm learning to be optimistic about this.


It needs like 600 to break the trend that still points downward. may 2 thru 12th seems to be the target i am reading a lot. it is the tip of this bubbles triangle i guess.

----------


## muh_roads

> Broke Guy - If gold can be manipulated of course this whole sector is. After learning the hard way, like most of us by the sounds of it, I rarely hold more than 50% when I sleep.


I don't mind crypto manipulation because it is at least based on supply and demand.  Metals manipulation is infuriating because when silver drops it isn't based on supply or any real indicators and we are entirely at the whim of where the elite wants to take it.  They just trade on paper, naked short, and refuse to let the vaults be audited.  We never have to worry about this with the blockchain.

The only thing we have to worry about in crypto is how Governments $#@! with the exchanges. But attempts to increase the supply aren't possible no matter how hard they try.  They can confiscate like SR, but that constricts so it's a win for holders.

----------


## Dianne

> Dianne - NMC will go way past $15 in the next bubble. seriously could hit $60 if it runs the same fractal pattern as BTC. The 7month wave has yet to fail on BTC, and rising tides raise all boats right? (ps, I am not currently holding NMC)
> 
> Broke Guy - If gold can be manipulated of course this whole sector is. After learning the hard way, like most of us by the sounds of it, I rarely hold more than 50% when I sleep.
> 
> LP - Nice to have you back. Decided to join here just because of you....awwwwwe, haha. Anyways, love them 1000+mile inlaw trips, done many times myself. 
> 
> Not sure if you use this or not. Decent chartists there too. https://www.tradingview.com/s/bitcoin/


Oh wow, I had no idea..    So NMC should be of higher value than PPC, or about the same.     I have just been in cryptos a couple of months, so I missed all the early excitement and results.

Thanks for the information.

----------


## muh_roads

> Come to think of it, I may have been wrong about this.  If BTC stays where it is for the rest of the day, I'm inclined to think it will continue to move up.  That'll show me to question BTC again.  If I was smart I would have stayed in when I bought yesterday and not simply sold for meager gains.  Good thing I bought in earlier today and am already experiencing gains.  Truth be told, I don't know what the future will be, but I'm learning to be optimistic about this.


Bitcoin is so tough to predict where it goes.  Every day is a good news day or a bad news day.  Sometimes the good news strings on for a few days and then we get a few bad days of news.

The latest good news involves BTC China.  They are deploying ATM's all over China to get around the direct bank deposit problems.  Until the Government probably bans those too...lol  It's a constant struggle.  The free market will always find a way.

Free people want to be free.

----------


## djthistle01

> Oh wow, I had no idea..    So NMC should be of higher value than PPC, or about the same.     I have just been in cryptos a couple of months, so I missed all the early excitement and results.
> 
> Thanks for the information.



I have only been in it for about the same time frame, I came from the silver side and share your frustration. PPC seems great for pumps, NMC has a technical future on the internet with .bit domain names. overall the 7month btc wave keeps growing, thus my view that if we do the same logarithmic rise for a 5th time then NMC could hit that intra day spike number.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It needs like 600 to break the trend that still points downward. may 2 thru 12th seems to be the target i am reading a lot. it is the tip of this bubbles triangle i guess.


True, that's an issue, but after succumbing to fear and doubt after the previous low, I have to admit it's a possibility.  Just don't want to scare anyone away or give them unreasonable hope.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Bitcoin is so tough to predict where it goes.  Every day is a good news day or a bad news day.  Sometimes the good news strings on for a few days and then we get a few bad days of news.
> 
> The latest good news involves BTC China.  They are deploying ATM's all over China to get around the direct bank deposit problems.  Until the Government probably bans those too...lol  It's a constant struggle.  The free market will always find a way.
> 
> Free people want to be free.


Wow, whomever runs that exchange should really watch their neck.  Defying the wishes of the PBOC?  Unheard of.  Next thing you know he'll be "disappeared."

----------


## muh_roads

> Wow, whomever runs that exchange should really watch their neck.  Defying the wishes of the PBOC?  Unheard of.  Next thing you know he'll be "disappeared."


Bobby Lee, CEO of BTC China, is a friend of liberty.  He's also the brother of the creator of Litecoin, Charles Lee.  Those guys are awesome.  I hope they stay safe.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Hi,

I have, I think, a bug report.

It's been "Bulls on Parade" since 2014-04-14 at 01:00, or over 24 hours, and although it says it's "Buying Bull Market w/ Randomized Micro Bids", it hasn't bought anything.  Is something wrong here?

It's now 2014-04-15 17:30 and it still says it wants to buy, but it's not buying.

Thanks!

----------


## lotsOfCake

So if this is when the market has turned, and if it is like last time, then ltc will drift up and btc will drift down. And then after that (a week? btc will go sideways/slightly up for a long time while ltc will tank.

----------


## muh_roads

> Hi,
> 
> I have, I think, a bug report.
> 
> It's been "Bulls on Parade" since 2014-04-14 at 01:00, or over 24 hours, and although it says it's "Buying Bull Market w/ Randomized Micro Bids", it hasn't bought anything.  Is something wrong here?
> 
> It's now 2014-04-15 17:30 and it still says it wants to buy, but it's not buying.
> 
> Thanks!


I think it is based on limit orders and not market orders.  A huge problem because when a limit is set, it runs away from you and then u have to wait a full 30 minutes for it to cancel and try again.  It's frustrating.  This makes backtesting not an accurate representation of the true potential there.  

Maybe pres can answer better?

I've also had weird issues with it saying "Overbought" or "Entering Bear Market", but then it starts buying.

edit: It might also have something to do with available funds.  Not sure what you are playing with.  I just turned it on when getting home and it worked for me...bought fairly quickly...

----------


## muh_roads

blockchain.info employees are cock teasing some big announcement on twitter coming soon.

----------


## Dianne

I'm sleeping in fiat tonight... maybe too much of a wine buzz ..  don't feel comfortable about any trade at this moment ... Will approach with clear head and new stats tomorrow.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm sleeping in fiat tonight... maybe too much of a wine buzz ..  don't feel comfortable about any trade at this moment ... Will approach with clear head and new stats tomorrow.


I'm gambling it will go to 550 before falling back to 500.

We'll find out...

----------


## lotsOfCake

All I know so far about the current flash-crash is this:
http://finance.caixin.com/2014-04-16/100666136.html
Needs translate bar (in chrome), or you can copy+paste to translate.google.com

Edit; Also mtgox news: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3F09U20140416 they want to be liquidated, which apparently reduces the odds of people getting all their money/bitcoins back)

----------


## Dianne

> I'm gambling it will go to 550 before falling back to 500.
> 
> We'll find out...


Wow, you got close !

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> All I know so far about the current flash-crash is this:
> http://finance.caixin.com/2014-04-16/100666136.html
> Needs translate bar (in chrome), or you can copy+paste to translate.google.com
> 
> Edit; Also mtgox news: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3F09U20140416 they want to be liquidated, which apparently reduces the odds of people getting all their money/bitcoins back)


This is not a flash crash.  I honestly don't think it's based on any fundamentals.  It's just a technical correction.

----------


## muh_roads

> Wow, you got close !




edit: gonna try that again.  buy 500 sell 550, LTC buy below 13 sell 14.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I thought the litepresence analysis was back in session...?

----------


## nayjevin

> I thought the litepresence analysis was back in session...?


Don't rush the master. It takes time to copy and paste Google news.

----------


## amonasro

> I'm gambling it will go to 550 before falling back to 500.
> 
> We'll find out...


I almost did this. Got home from the bar at 2:30, saw it at 540, technicals were there for a dip, but ultimately decided against drunk trading. Glad you caught it

----------


## muh_roads

> I almost did this. Got home from the bar at 2:30, saw it at 540, technicals were there for a dip, but ultimately decided against drunk trading. Glad you caught it


Wasn't as lucky this time but got out around 525 after getting in @ 500.  I think we're heading back to 450.  Chinese banks are actually shutting down accounts now that have worked with exchanges.

But don't forget, it's the "People's Bank of China".  Cause they are really for the people.

----------


## muh_roads

> Don't rush the master. It takes time to copy and paste Google news.


He's working on a new bot that is market orders in large chunks.  What I've seen so far is actually really kick ass.

----------


## nayjevin

> He's working on a new bot that is market orders in large chunks.  What I've seen so far is actually really kick ass.


That is poor strategy.  Leaves too much on the board and requires complexity bordering on narcissistic central regulatory mortal manplans.  I'll give you guys a customizable bot, built in 2 days, mostly from my android phone.  Randomizes, reduces slippage, let's you adapt to conditions, guarantees successful outcome, if you are long on the technology.  None of this 'I've tuned it with my wisdom of subjective/debatable technicals.'  Sorry for my part in promoting the wisdom of any inferior products here.

LOL @ unloading 3200 coins ' without affecting the price'

----------


## muh_roads

> That is poor strategy.  Leaves too much on the board and requires complexity bordering on narcissistic central regulatory mortal manplans.  I'll give you guys a customizable bot, built in 2 days, mostly from my android phone.  Randomizes, reduces slippage, let's you adapt to conditions, guarantees successful outcome, if you are long on the technology.  None of this 'I've tuned it with my wisdom of subjective/debatable technicals.'  Sorry for my part in promoting the wisdom of any inferior products here.
> 
> LOL @ unloading 3200 coins ' without affecting the price'


Well "large" chunks is subjective.  But no not that large...lol

----------


## btcltc

I hope we slowly go back under 2 dollars for nmc in which case i will be buying chunk loads of them and hope for a 3 dollar spike soon again.

----------


## muh_roads

> I hope we slowly go back under 2 dollars for nmc in which case i will be buying chunk loads of them and hope for a 3 dollar spike soon again.


I agree.  I did really well on that last dip and rise.  Look at PPC as well.  Both NMC & PPC generally move together in similar price ranges.

----------


## presence

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/PqNxpsjQY5M6vvWer



> 2013-11-01 04:00 Simulation started. Balance: 10000.00 USD
> 2013-11-01 04:00 BUY 1
> 2013-11-01 04:00 BUY 4339.13 LTC at 2.30
> 2013-11-04 01:00 SELL 1
> 2013-11-04 01:00 SELL 4339.13 LTC at 2.91
> 2013-11-06 07:00 BUY 1
> 2013-11-06 07:00 BUY 4256.27 LTC at 2.95
> 2013-11-10 09:00 SELL 1
> 2013-11-10 09:00 SELL 4256.27 LTC at 3.71
> ...






> LOL @ unloading 3200 coins ' without affecting the price'


yes... market orders are not effective in this regard.   I'm working on that.  

If you check here:  

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5460537

I was able to unload 6400 coins w/ two "competing" 3200 LTC accounts in live trading without effecting price using "Dragon Slayer" 

*So YES it is possible to unload 3200 coins without effecting price
*
...but NO you can't just dump w/ market orders and hope for the best.



Sorry for the loss of focus on charts and predictions...  


On the plate:

Dragon Slayer A 3.0 (to deal w/ changes in Global API calculations @ https://cryptotrader.org/?r=72 )

Twerk 4.0 (massive fail when market turned bullish due to missing "else" in code plus lack of bull market backtest data to build to in PPCUSD)

**SPANK** Bot order placement 

www.cryptochurch.org  << not sure where this project is headed yet... but we're pulling together some of the movers and shakers in crypto for a round table discussion.




> *Peace be upon all who worship here.*

----------


## neo1344

hi there
 l m new here and in this crypto market,l hold very low  both btc n ltc but with zero trading knowledge,would you share your humble opinion for long and short please? thanks

----------


## nayjevin

One can make a bot that backtests well but fails in the market.  For instance:

If price < 500 buy
If price > 1000 sell

Backtest that over the past year starting with $1, and you'll double your money.  Backtest starting with1,000,000 and you'll double your money.  But in real life, you can't necessarily fill a million dollar order.  Backtests assume your order will be filled at your desired price.  It has no way to calculate how the market and incentives would have changed.  

If pres understands this, he is taking advantage of potential seed money providers who don't, using these astronomical backrest results.  If he does not understand this, don't use his bot.  

Google ' impossibot'

My bot will be free, capable of implementing a variety of strategies, and completely non-dependent on my 'opinion' of charts and the future.  It can be used on any coin, at any time.

The problem is that it can't unload coins without affecting the price.  Because that's not possible.  Every trade affects the price.

My bot is ethical.  It allows you to choose your own strategy.  It is elegant, if I may say so.  It will be fully documented and open source.  I will respond to your questions.  You can have my real name.

Together we will stabilize the prices until savings reign.  Cryptos can then be a viable economic technology.

----------


## presence

> One can make a bot that backtests well but fails in the market.  For instance:
> 
> If price < 500 buy
> If price > 1000 sell
> 
> Backtest that over the past year starting with $1, and you'll double your money.  Backtest starting with1,000,000 and you'll double your money.  But in real life, you can't necessarily fill a million dollar order.  Backtests assume your order will be filled at your desired price.  It has no way to calculate how the market and incentives would have changed.  
> 
> If pres understands this, he is taking advantage of potential seed money providers who don't, using these astronomical backrest results.  If he does not understand this, don't use his bot.  
> 
> ...



nayjevin I would completely agree that "backtest" results in their current form at cryptotrader.org are grossly inaccurate.  Even when I code elements into my scripts to decrease slippage... it often has no effect on backtest results because "limit orders" are not even considered in backtest mode.  All backtests at cryptotrader assume that all assets will be sold at the previous candle closing price.    What backtesting does allow is for us to compare apples to apples and in doing so improve our overall strategy by adjusting entry and exit points.

One of the current "advantages" of *SPANK* in its current form... it only trades every 48 hours or so.  So with less trades there is inherently less slippage.  

SPANK however will need a full "order placing" functionality built into it like dragon slayer has before its "live trader" worthy.   


FWIW... to the best of my knowledge... many if not most of the bots available from other botsmiths in the strategy market at cryptotrader do not address this critical issue.  For the most part, they rely solely upon market orders that begin previous candle closing price and continue to push closer by a small % every 30 seconds until all assets are moved.  

I do my best to advise clients via email of these issues and get feedback from live trading instances to improve limit order slippage in subsequent releases.  

sportpilot... A brilliant programmer who I keep up w/ via email is also working on pulling live ticker data into our order placing ability read more about this open source project here:

https://cryptotrader.org/topics/9281...e-current-bots

----------


## nayjevin

> nayjevin I would completely agree that "backtest" results in their current form at cryptotrader.org are grossly inaccurate.  Even when I code elements into my scripts to decrease slippage... it often has no effect on backtest results because "limit orders" are not even considered in backtest mode.  All backtests at cryptotrader assume that all assets will be sold at the previous candle closing price.    What backtesting does allow is for us to compare apples to apples and in doing so improve our overall strategy by adjusting entry and exit points.
> 
> One of the current "advantages" of *SPANK* in its current form... it only trades every 48 hours or so.  So with less trades there is inherently less slippage.  
> 
> SPANK however will need a full "order placing" functionality built into it like dragon slayer has before its "live trader" worthy.   
> 
> 
> FWIW... to the best of my knowledge... many if not most of the bots available from other botsmiths in the strategy market at cryptotrader do not address this critical issue.  For the most part, they rely solely upon market orders that begin previous candle closing price and continue to push closer by a small % every 30 seconds until all assets are moved.  
> 
> ...


With all due respect, blah.  Please address concerns thus far ignored.  It appears as forum slide. 

Order placing functionality?  Buy.asset

----------


## presence

> What do you mean by "inflection"?


via wikipedia:



> In differential calculus, an *inflection point, point of inflection, flex, or inflection (inflexion) is a point on a curve at which thecurvature or concavity changes sign from plus to minus or from minus to plus.*


so inflection in laymans terms... when a moving average holds water...thats concave up.  When a moving average dumps water... that's concave down.  The point in between is inflection.

----------


## presence

> With all due respect, blah. Please address concerns thus far ignored.





> When do you expect that your bot will have any value for those who purchased it?








Does that help you understand my postion?

This (along with other reasons) is why I have encouraged people to purchase my script rather than rent... so they have it available when needed and feel no urge to turn it on until it is best utilized.







> Do you plan to be in tune to the market enough to let your loyal customers know when using it won't hemhorage money?



In all of my ads and private advice I have always stated that Dragon Slayer A is for a bullish bubble scenario and the immediate 30 days of aftermath after the peak (a green zig zag above).   I've made this clear as day.   We're just now finishing the effective period for Dragon Slayer B (the red down trends indicated above).  There is a period in between where I have no data for.  None... zero.  Same goes for any botsmith working at CT.org  We only have test data back to Nov1 for LTC.   


Yes.  I do intend to be in tune with the market enough to announce to my loyal customers when I feel a bullish bubble circumstance is arising.  I run 5 sim traders and several live constantly each with different trading logic and even when I don't post every few hours at RPF I still check my charts several times daily.   I'm prepared to post such important recommendations here and via email if/when need be.  


In the past whenever I have made "announcements" regarding my market beliefs I've always made them at RPF first... then cut and paste from here to the trollbox at btce.





> Are you aware that backtests force market orders? Do you reckon your customers do?



Actually backtest do not "force market orders" they calculate orders as if all funds were transacted at the closing price of the previous candle.   I do my best to make this clear to people who inquire about "expected gains" and any time the question pops up in this forum or the forum at CT.org.





> How can one believe that your finely tuned strategy is based on accurate assumptions given your predictions that have been most wrong have been most recent, and you are now not in touch with the market?



My strategy depends upon technical indicators including SAR, RSI, EMA crosses, EMA divergences and other custom quantitative indicators.  These indicators are fed live data day and night and make no attempt to predict anything out into the future... they deal with the present.  When the calculated price is low... the bot buys... when the calculated price is high... it sells.   All buys and sells are in done in small "hedging" chunks in dragon slayer so as to give it opportunity to back out and not grossly effect market price while trading.





> Why shouldn't one assume that you care about the trollbox than RPF and those who have given you coin and received no updates?



You sound like my ex girlfriend.  I dumped that needy bitch.


...oops did I say that?


Check the trollbox archive... I haven't exactly been posting there the past 20 days either.  If anything the only contact w/ the crypto world has been answering the endless stream of Q&A that lands in my email inbox, RPF inbox, and btce inbox.  Sorry if I had to put this thread on pause.  


You'd think the world ended.


Holy $#@! homie.  


I took my 4 turning 5 year old son on a 3 week journey to visit his grandma and relatives in south flordia that he hasn't seen since he was 2.  Happy birthday pool party.    I had $#@! for internet connection, a slow ass mini laptop, and endless family members to visit that I hadn't seen in 3 years.  And a rental property owner who's cheap ass pulled the plug on my AC mid session and pretended like there was something wrong with the unit before I called him on it.   Drove 30 hours in each direction to get there and back.  2700 miles and a few on the road car repairs later... mission accomplished.  My hermit ass probably won't leave home for another 2 years.  I work from home... I'm focusing *mostly* on crypto these days.   Breathe deep and let me catch up where I left off.


My expectation was for my mini laptop and my web connection at the rental place to cut the mustard while I was on the road... well cryptotrader wouldn't load on my laptop... charts were taking forever to load let alone update and typing away from my desktop keyboard proved frustrating.  And running a laptop at 85' F in the "broken AC" south florida rental house could suck me.





> Love,
> Agorahippie 'people are inherently good' Misespooner





Somehow I ain't feeling the love.







> Top Reasons I Don't Have Food
> 
> 
> 1. My liberty buddies charts and advice
> 2. Believing in utility value I.e. xpm and nmc
> 3. Not being in USD Fiat
> 
> 
> Yay the future! For others



Really?  How is it Paladin was able to drop me a half a BTC tip on the same advice?  


Post a LTC address I'll send you half a coin so you can get a value meal at Wendy's... cause something needs to chill your snark.   







> Order placing functionality? Buy.asset



You really think its that easy?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

So, can we get back to the BTC outlook?  I've been losing money lately, as I suspect many have, and I'm just waiting for a decisive market signal.  

What's your opinion on the 7/30 EMA weekly cross?

----------


## muh_roads

> So, can we get back to the BTC outlook?  I've been losing money lately, as I suspect many have, and I'm just waiting for a decisive market signal.  
> 
> What's your opinion on the 7/30 EMA weekly cross?


check hushmail

----------


## nayjevin

> Does that help you understand my postion?


Why would I need your charts if I own your bot?  You would just need to tell me when to start it.  Instead of any words from you, until this post, expressing any promise to do so, you have ignored two requests in this thread for guidance on the potential viable starting date.  Others have posted in this thread attempting to guess at when this market might occur.  How many customers need to buy a bot but don't need you to tell them when to run it?

Further, you sold this bot long before it had any use, and it required an update like 2 days later.  A pro would test with his own money.  It still has zero use, and I know I haven't seen any other 'cool scripts you have laying around.'.  Don't bother.  Your systems are fraught with peril in a manipulated market.

So answer the question.  When will the bot have more than zero value?  You've got your money, and presumably made a nice return on it.  What about the poor suckers that sent you a sizable portion of the coin they have to do anything with, and are still giving Cryptotrader more every month, 'just in case'.  People who dont understand the market like you have been led to believe litecoin might go to .0420 any minute now for, what, over a month?  Last time you bothered to respond to me you told me bitcoin's bottom was 600.  It dropped below that day and havent seen it since.  Luckily I had stopped listening by then.

First, when selling the bot, you insinuated urgency, when honest professionalism would require the opposite.  Then nothing happened, live tests produced $#@!ty results, and you started telling us what kind of market we had to wait for, then you cured your colorblindness and went on vacation with our money.




> This (along with other reasons) is why I have encouraged people to purchase my script rather than rent... so they have it available when needed and feel no urge to turn it on until it is best utilized.


See above, and also there certainly was no 'don't give the cryptotrader douche any money yet' from you over here.  You acted like the imminence of moonward motion was equivalent to the pace of your favorite Rage song.  Then you went around the internet selling .0420, then a few weeks later you told trollbox 'sorry about 420'  when directly questioned in 'public'.  No word here about it, looked like you were just waiting for it to go away.  At best you are seriously blind to the reasonable perspective of your customer base that doesn't Skype with you.




> In all of my ads and private advice I have always stated that Dragon Slayer A is for a bullish bubble scenario and the immediate 30 days of aftermath after the peak (a green zig zag above).   I've made this clear as day.


That's gibberish to anyone who needs help with this.  I have my reasons for deciding to take a flyer on you.  And I knew exactly what I was risking, and I got zero return.  No biggie.  I didn't realize I would have a few more weeks chance to spend the few hours it took to see how absurdly easy it is to write a bot script, and how hilariously Keynesian yours is.  You keep acting like you and your experts are slaving away at the labs.  My bot took 2 days, and I had to learn the language, and do it from a phone, with a scripting platform built for a 30" monitor.  And I'm not good at programming.  And an overall pretty dumb guy.




> We're just now finishing the effective period for Dragon Slayer B (the red down trends indicated above).  There is a period in between where I have no data for.  None... zero.  Same goes for any botsmith working at CT.org  We only have test data back to Nov1 for LTC.


Ah, dragonslayer b, I had forgotten about that one, LOL.  Finely tuned in a different way for a market that may or may not ever exist (DONT CHANGE MY FORMULAS!)  that was one of the scripts I could have rushed out and purchased on cryptotrader along with a monthly subscription, only to find out later you were offering it at a discounted (heh) rate.  Never received It from you when I bought A.  Oh you're saying it would have been effective for me if I had it all this time?  Lovely




> Yes.  I do intend to be in tune with the market enough to announce to my loyal customers when I feel a bullish bubble circumstance is arising.  I run 5 sim traders and several live constantly each with different trading logic and even when I don't post every few hours at RPF I still check my charts several times daily.   I'm prepared to post such important recommendations here and via email if/when need be.


Logic.  Just come clean.  You know what day traders know.  This $#@! is dead simple and you can make it simpler by bullshitting people into making moves.




> In the past whenever I have made "announcements" regarding my market beliefs I've always made them at RPF first... then cut and paste from here to the trollbox at btce.


I had to search the internet to see if you were clarifying to others what you (benefit of the doubt) are too obtuse to see you should have clarified here.  I spent some time believing I shouldn't be another person asking for personal advice/guidance from you, assuming you'd update us when things changed.  But you disappeared and someone told us you were not available for support for your product because you were touring the coasts.  Take a moment to consider how that feels, in case you are not a sociopathic fraudster as I believe is most likely.




> Actually backtest do not "force market orders" they calculate orders as if all funds were transacted at the closing price of the previous candle.   I do my best to make this clear to people who inquire about "expected gains" and any time the question pops up in this forum or the forum at CT.org.


Backtests assume an order will be filled.  In real life they are not always.  When you sold your bot, you made this not clear at all.  You bragged about returns in back testing, which you now are saying you have always understood to be not representative of reality.  Oops, your only justification was 'sorry, I didn't understand 10x ltc in 30 days' or whatever the number was 'was definitely not going to happen, based on the guarantee that some orders filled in back testing will not be filled in reality, and some trades will change the market' (always to the detriment of margin from perspective of backrest vs reality'.  But instead, you are saying you knew all along, but sold your bot  on false dreams.  People in this thread asked about expectation.  I believed what you were doing then, interesting read, those times.

FWIW, I still believe it is possible to get returns like that.  It takes automation, indicators, entropy, and movement, and in the right direction for the big bucks.  And I did know that only a libertarian here, or a situation similar, might actually share strategy at personal expense.  That was my gamble, It was more pragmatic, I thought, than the odds of learning enough myself before Cryptos prices ran away from me.  Dont get me wrong, still a sucker.




> My strategy depends upon technical indicators including SAR, RSI, EMA crosses, EMA divergences and other custom quantitative indicators.  These indicators are fed live data day and night and make no attempt to predict anything out into the future... they deal with the present.


This is like The Collins saying 'my campaign uses Ron Paul and other potential awesome people.'. Using EMA divergence in a bot script is a matter of cut and paste,akin to adding a game to your Facebook.  You don't brag about how good you are at programming games because the farmville on your fb is neat.  These indicators are built in.  You just make a call to them.

If Ema(10) > Ema(30), then buy.ltc

Look I'm an expert.  In a month I'll sell you my quantitative custom logic.  Hurry.




> When the calculated price is low... the bot buys... when the calculated price is high... it sells.   All buys and sells are in done in small "hedging" chunks in dragon slayer so as to give it opportunity to back out and not grossly effect market price while trading.


This is right, and not unique at all.  Problem is the programmer decides what is low.  And you seem to be terrible at that.  Or very good at it, and then you tell people what you need them to believe to be more sure your 6400 coins get unloaded at 33




> You sound like my ex girlfriend.  I dumped that needy bitch.


Customer service guy huh?  How much of her money do you have?  Does she twerk, you ladykiller you?




> Check the trollbox archive... I haven't exactly been posting there the past 20 days either.  If anything the only contact w/ the crypto world has been answering the endless stream of Q&A that lands in my email inbox, RPF inbox, and btce inbox.  Sorry if I had to put this thread on pause.


I had you pegged as more of a 'fake vacation until .0420 is out of mind' and log in as someone else in the meantime to feed your addiction to manipulating people.




> You'd think the world ended.


Patronizing people who give you money.  Newsflash they need a service because they aren't experts.  Now you want them to do it themselves and think nothing when you disappear.  I know, deep down it feeds your ego to be needed by suckers.  Your poor ex.




> took my 4 turning 5 year old son on a 3 week journey to visit his grandma and relatives in south flordia that he hasn't seen since he was 2.  Happy birthday pool party.    I had $#@! for internet connection, a slow ass mini laptop, and endless family members to visit that I hadn't seen in 3 years.  And a rental property owner who's cheap ass pulled the plug on my AC mid session and pretended like there was something wrong with the unit before I called him on it.   Drove 30 hours in each direction to get there and back.  2700 miles and a few on the road car repairs later... mission accomplished.  My hermit ass probably won't leave home for another 2 years.  I work from home... I'm focusing *mostly* on crypto these days.   Breathe deep and let me catch up where I left off.


So other people and situations are responsible for your failures.  You're neat.




> My expectation was for my mini laptop and my web connection at the rental place to cut the mustard while I was on the road... well cryptotrader wouldn't load on my laptop... charts were taking forever to load let alone update and typing away from my desktop keyboard proved frustrating.  And running a laptop at 85' F in the "broken AC" south florida rental house could suck me.


If only life would let you afford to send an email.  Or do they even have libraries in Florida?  Need some cash brotha?  Sosad




> omehow I ain't feeling the love.


Sociopath?




> Really?  How is it Paladin was able to drop me a half a BTC tip on the same advice?


Why do you assume we got the same advice?  I don't.  You told me BTC bottom was 600.  I assume he's a friend of yours or a sock puppet or part of your cabal of FUD engineers.




> Post a LTC address I'll send you half a coin so you can get a value meal at Wendy's... cause something needs to chill your snark.


You've put much effort into trying to inhabit a moral high ground.  Being above it all.  Its beneath you.  Your poor ex.  Truth is, it is PR, motivated by your carefully crafted image ( bubble).

I just speak my mind, and at unknown personal expense.  There's some chance you can afford to have me murdered for this.  I don't want scammers here though.




> You really think its that easy?


Making a high risk, high reward bot, dependent upon technical analysis, requires study at a less than doctorate level. Programming a bot that doesn't lose money requires a small amount of special knowledge, common sense, and programming at a second semester intro to comp sci level.  Pretty easy if I can do it.

----------


## presence

image may extend off edge of screen:

----------


## amonasro

> Why would I need your charts if I own your bot?  You would just need to tell me when to start it.  Instead of any words from you, until this post, expressing any promise to do so, you have ignored two requests in this thread for guidance on the potential viable starting date.  Others have posted in this thread attempting to guess at when this market might occur.  How many customers need to buy a bot but don't need you to tell them when to run it?


You seem frustrated. It's all good. There is no definitive start date. Rest assured no one on this forum is going to be late to the party. 

Let's get above $600 then we can begin talking about a bullish market scenario. In the meantime, watch and pray.

----------


## muh_roads

nayjevin, dude.

It's just a bad coincidence that pres took a vacation when the Chinese Banking FUD kicked in.  The indicators showed 600 but China's $#@! was unexpected.  Nobody could predict that.  I also follow a guy on twitter named ProTraderTips who has been trading crypto since 2011.  He's pretty good but even he didn't expect the China FUD turn.

Relax.  SecondMarket & Winklevoss ETF's among other Wall Street investors are coming online within the next 3-4 months.  Don't panic.  Scoop low.

You'll know when to turn the bots on.  When a flood of that Wall Street news comes and people are in panic buy mode it'll feel like November last year.

----------


## nayjevin

> nayjevin, dude.
> 
> It's just a bad coincidence that pres took a vacation when the Chinese Banking FUD kicked in.  The indicators showed 600 but China's $#@! was unexpected.  Nobody could predict that.  I also follow a guy on twitter named ProTraderTips who has been trading crypto since 2011.  He's pretty good but even he didn't expect the China FUD turn.
> 
> Relax.  SecondMarket & Winklevoss ETF's among other Wall Street investors are coming online within the next 3-4 months.  Don't panic.  Scoop low.
> 
> You'll know when to turn the bots on.  When a flood of that Wall Street news comes and people are in panic buy mode it'll feel like November last year.


Except that wall street can see 400 is reasonable.  Meanwhile pres is selling the moon to libertarians.

My bot is more scoopier.  And its trustless.  And decentralized.  And open source.  And free.

Pres bot misses peaks bad.  You have to join his club to be a part of timely information.  He might disappear and insult people who give him money.  He might switch platforms at any time and require a new subscription.  His idea of script documentation is penis jokes.  Is he depressed today and needing sympathy or listening to metal and sure of moons.  I can relate to that.  But srsly.

----------


## nayjevin

> You seem frustrated. It's all good. There is no definitive start date. Rest assured no one on this forum is going to be late to the party.


LOL, its all good.  My extremely successful conservative personal strategy has nowhere near made up for the losses incurred trying this bot.  It's all good.

----------


## presence

> Why would I need your charts if I own your bot?  You would just need to tell me when to start it.  Instead of any words from you, until this post, expressing any promise to do so, you have ignored two requests in this thread for guidance on the potential viable starting date.  Others have posted in this thread attempting to guess at when this market might occur.  How many customers need to buy a bot but don't need you to tell them when to run it?



Every man is responsible for his own trades.   I can give advice but I don't push the buttons for anyone. 




> Further, you sold this bot long before it had any use, and it required an update like 2 days later.  A pro would test with his own money.  It still has zero use, and I know I haven't seen any other 'cool scripts you have laying around.'.  Don't bother.  Your systems are fraught with peril in a manipulated market.


I sold you some script open source a few months before it was ideal to set it loose.  This is bad? Really?  Apologies on the cool scripts... had you sent me an email noting that I would have sent them out lickety split.





> So answer the question.  When will the bot have more than zero value?  You've got your money, and presumably made a nice return on it.  What about the poor suckers that sent you a sizable portion of the coin they have to do anything with, and are still giving Cryptotrader more every month, 'just in case'.  People who dont understand the market like you have been led to believe litecoin might go to .0420 any minute now for, what, over a month?  Last time you bothered to respond to me you told me bitcoin's bottom was 600.  It dropped below that day and havent seen it since.  Luckily I had stopped listening by then.


If you can't afford $18/mo for basic+ at crypto trader you shouldn't be trading.





> First, when selling the bot, you insinuated urgency, when honest professionalism would require the opposite.  Then nothing happened, live tests produced $#@!ty results, and you started telling us what kind of market we had to wait for, then you cured your colorblindness and went on vacation with our money.


omg





> See above, and also there certainly was no 'don't give the cryptotrader douche any money yet' from you over here.  You acted like the imminence of moonward motion was equivalent to the pace of your favorite Rage song.  Then you went around the internet selling .0420, then a few weeks later you told trollbox 'sorry about 420'  when directly questioned in 'public'.  No word here about it, looked like you were just waiting for it to go away.  At best you are seriously blind to the reasonable perspective of your customer base that doesn't Skype with you.


You don't see any perks to keeping simulations run at cryptotrader or running any of the multitude of great open source available to you there?

Regarding 0420... You inquired PERSONALLY to me on 3/19... my reply to you was:




> You missed that train. Don't bother, the stress will burn you. 
> 
> Take a look at that chart I posted yesterday showing the order the other alts popped after LTC midseason last year... note that after LTC pops none of the other alts fall... they're all sideways or up. 
> 
> I'd pick another alt and jump on the train. Or diversify... that's my game plan after LTC.
> 
> don't get me wrong... I still have faith in 0420... but I'm holding 0240's so its a lot easier to not stress while we're this high over baseline.









> That's gibberish to anyone who needs help with this.  I have my reasons for deciding to take a flyer on you.  And I knew exactly what I was risking, and I got zero return.  No biggie.  I didn't realize I would have a few more weeks chance to spend the few hours it took to see how absurdly easy it is to write a bot script, and how hilariously Keynesian yours is.  You keep acting like you and your experts are slaving away at the labs.  My bot took 2 days, and I had to learn the language, and do it from a phone, with a scripting platform built for a 30" monitor.  And I'm not good at programming.  And an overall pretty dumb guy.


Push play... let us all know how it worked out for you in a few months.  






> Ah, dragonslayer b, I had forgotten about that one, LOL.  Finely tuned in a different way for a market that may or may not ever exist (DONT CHANGE MY FORMULAS!)  that was one of the scripts I could have rushed out and purchased on cryptotrader along with a monthly subscription, only to find out later you were offering it at a discounted (heh) rate.  Never received It from you when I bought A.  Oh you're saying it would have been effective for me if I had it all this time?  Lovely


Homie straight up sorry about that.  My bad.  Until just now I had no idea.  I'm a busy man... you got lossed in the shuffle.  Lets resolve.

Option A) Give me your word you won't ever run my dragon slayer A script.  I'll send 1/2 of your discounted "RPF moderator" special .75 BTC back, just post an address.  You learned a bit about bot code.  I dealt with an unnecessary hassle.  We call it good.

Option B) I'll send you Part B, the missing free gift package, and a copy of my yet incomplete **SPANK** bot to say I'm sorry.. truly had no clue you never got those scripts.   IIRC I gave you "Dragon Slayer A" on your simple request before I even got any payment from you because I thought so highly of u as a moderator here at RPF.  Not giving you part B after payment was an error in book keeping.  You should have spoken up sooner about it.  


Just let me know what you want, it will happen top of the morning tomorrow.






> Logic.  Just come clean.  You know what day traders know.  This $#@! is dead simple and you can make it simpler by bullshitting people into making moves.


wtf?






> I had to search the internet to see if you were clarifying to others what you (benefit of the doubt) are too obtuse to see you should have clarified here.  I spent some time believing I shouldn't be another person asking for personal advice/guidance from you, assuming you'd update us when things changed.  But you disappeared and someone told us you were not available for support for your product because you were touring the coasts.  Take a moment to consider how that feels, in case you are not a sociopathic fraudster as I believe is most likely.


Were you not here when I said I drove 3 days to flordia and 3 days back to take my 5 year old to see his grandma that he hadn't seen since he was 2?  





> Backtests assume an order will be filled.  In real life they are not always.  When you sold your bot, you made this not clear at all.  You bragged about returns in back testing, which you now are saying you have always understood to be not representative of reality.  Oops, your only justification was 'sorry, I didn't understand 10x ltc in 30 days' or whatever the number was 'was definitely not going to happen, based on the guarantee that some orders filled in back testing will not be filled in reality, and some trades will change the market' (always to the detriment of margin from perspective of backrest vs reality'.  But instead, you are saying you knew all along, but sold your bot  on false dreams.  People in this thread asked about expectation.  I believed what you were doing then, interesting read, those times.


Are you aware that the era of bot trading on cloud servers is like oh... 90 days old?  You're on the cutting edge of technology on a new trading platform with a script that was invented for that platform less than 60 days ago... based on less than 4 months of backtest data.    YES there are inherent risks.





> FWIW, I still believe it is possible to get returns like that.  It takes automation, indicators, entropy, and movement, and in the right direction for the big bucks.  And I did know that only a libertarian here, or a situation similar, might actually share strategy at personal expense.  That was my gamble, It was more pragmatic, I thought, than the odds of learning enough myself before Cryptos prices ran away from me.  Dont get me wrong, still a sucker.


maybe you just need a hug?




> This is like The Collins saying 'my campaign uses Ron Paul and other potential awesome people.'. Using EMA divergence in a bot script is a matter of cut and paste,akin to adding a game to your Facebook.  You don't brag about how good you are at programming games because the farmville on your fb is neat.  These indicators are built in.  You just make a call to them.


No.  You don't just "make a call to them" 




> The basic "instrument.ema(100)" method: https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/CmX2HgZ6s2bNwzwTWHuge fail.
> The Talib method: https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/9mgGiLRoFF4ANb6M9
> Not much better.
> Class Functions w/ "extra data" https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/HbxPmnjQ9AZ63dBRb
> Improving... but still largely a fail.
> Class Funcitons w/ extra data and logic https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/gYgddk7itaTbWbf6W
> Apparent shortcomings of previous method at ema(600): https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/q2o5dfta43AEary9x
> another method again getting different results: https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/2WW7dBiu2pvBem4pH
> and shortcomings of this last method which now appear at ema(500): https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/XEAggwxJKNcWZwiio
> ...



lack of appreciation is what I'm feeling.






> If Ema(10) > Ema(30), then buy.ltc
> 
> Look I'm an expert.  In a month I'll sell you my quantitative custom logic.  Hurry.
> 
> 
> 
> This is right, and not unique at all.  Problem is the programmer decides what is low.  And you seem to be terrible at that.  Or very good at it, and then you tell people what you need them to believe to be more sure your 6400 coins get unloaded at 33


Those were a clients coins.  I don't have 6400 LTC.  That client had 30,000 and wanted 6400 liquidated.  He did so with the same script I gave you; Dragon Slayer A.






> Customer service guy huh?  How much of her money do you have?  Does she twerk, you ladykiller you?


if you must know... were were poor high school sweethearts.  I've been w/ my wife since.






> I had you pegged as more of a 'fake vacation until .0420 is out of mind' and log in as someone else in the meantime to feed your addiction to manipulating people.


well aside from litepresence2 account at btce... no new personas... just needed that one to run test code.






> Patronizing people who give you money.  Newsflash they need a service because they aren't experts.  Now you want them to do it themselves and think nothing when you disappear.  I know, deep down it feeds your ego to be needed by suckers.  Your poor ex.


Please just give me btc address so I can refund your coins and we don't have to do business.  I don't think its going to work out between us for some reason.  





> So other people and situations are responsible for your failures.  You're neat.


I don't talk to you for a few weeks and I'm a failure?  Whut?








> Sociopath?


Did you forget this is RPF and you're a moderator?  There are Terms of Service here.






> Why do you assume we got the same advice?  I don't.  You told me BTC bottom was 600.  I assume he's a friend of yours or a sock puppet or part of your cabal of FUD engineers.


Paladin69 is my sockpuppet?  I really want to smoke some of that.






> You've put much effort into trying to inhabit a moral high ground.  Being above it all.  Its beneath you.  Your poor ex.  Truth is, it is PR, motivated by your carefully crafted image ( bubble).
> 
> I just speak my mind, and at unknown personal expense.  There's some chance you can afford to have me murdered for this.  I don't want scammers here though.


having bought into crypto initially w/ $400 last april... not much chance there's room in my murder budget for you.   wtf?






> Making a high risk, high reward bot, dependent upon technical analysis, requires study at a less than doctorate level. Programming a bot that doesn't lose money requires a small amount of special knowledge, common sense, and programming at a second semester intro to comp sci level.  Pretty easy if I can do it.


Show me a back test homie... whatcha got?

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/PqNxpsjQY5M6vvWer

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/2E3Mv6WTpeyxrtuNm




https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/sqJyZNydZgKB7wSva
https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/Pqfe4vvymfWxG2XPg
https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/YteR73cQHb2MMmdy2





https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/X5DS9YzBGXgonFJRo

----------


## nayjevin

> .  Show me a back test homie... whatcha got?


Imagine a wavy line.  Red on all dips.  You do the rest.

Creating such a bot is ridiculously simple because time tested indicators are BUILT IN.  If one isn't trying to prove how smart their innovative formula is, nor be married to any minimum 'acceptible ' return, but instead focuses on a fierce defense against loss of value, one inevitably ends up with a strategy that places them within ethical and profitable boundaries.

Choose your favorite technical analyst and read the definition of his trophy indicators.  Then put the three letter code into this formula:

If myfavgeniusequation equals my threshold then buy and/or sell

----------


## nayjevin

My next post will be made as though I am completely wrong about pres.  Sleepytimes

----------


## djthistle01

There is this thing called Private Messages, so use it because a pissing contest is boring as ***k to read. -werd-

----------


## muh_roads

nayjevin,

I'm not sure how you could be losing vast amounts of money on these bots?  I, like you, turned them on at the wrong time recently thinking now was the time to use them not understanding things properly.  If things drop, it bails on the buys it made so fast that you don't really lose much of anything.  I'm maybe down 500 or so out of playing with a below mid-range of 5 figures.

But I'm also up because the red dragon NMC & PPC two weeks ago was kicking ass while I was sleeping.  I let it buy on the way down and then I paused them sometime in the afternoon during that drop to 339 BTC.  I then manually sold after the rally when China said they wouldn't "ban".

I don't think trading is for you if you can't handle even a remote amount of loss.  If you knew how much BTC I've lost to Doge, Reddcoin, Vertcoin, Kittehcoin, 42coin, Globalcoin, Wolong's Pandacoin and some others it would probably make your head spin.

I've also recouped a lot of that loss with Unobtanium, Zetacoin, Blackcoin and some others.  I've also had new luck dollar cost averaging Doge again as well.  It's the game we play.

BTC, LTC, NMC, PPC are safer bets.  If you don't like swing trading, buying anywhere between 400-600 won't matter.   People that bought in these ranges will be incredibly happy looking back on things 1 year from now.

Wall Street getting involved will make China look like a toddler.  Because it will cause a cascade effect on FOREX and other places around the world.  When this happens, there will be new incentive for all of these new guys coming to the table to build businesses and more infrastructure around crypto to spend them.

I just don't feel the fear that some are.  A price drop I view as a blessing.  This is like getting in a time machine and getting in on gold when it was still $35 an ounce IMO.  Or getting stock in Microsoft or Apple in the 70's.

----------


## nayjevin

> nayjevin,
> 
> I'm not sure how you could be losing vast amounts of money on these bots?


Who said that?  My only unprofitable moves have been:

-buying the bot
-cryptotrader pro subscription (valueless to me as coffescript is not capable of implementing my strategy)
-selling off coin at a loss so I could have enough USD and ltc to run the bot
-buying dragonslayer at cryptotrader for 1 month when it was version 1.0
-selling off everything at cryptsy because it sucks

Aside from that, my positions perfectly match my comfort.  I have literally zero stress about Crypto.  Don't pigeonhole me!  Good post and advice for many though.





> But I'm also up because the red dragon NMC & PPC two weeks ago was kicking ass while I was sleeping.  I let it buy on the way down and then I paused them sometime in the afternoon during that drop to 339 BTC.  I then manually sold after the rally when China said they wouldn't "ban".
> 
> I don't think trading is for you if you can't handle even a remote amount of loss.  If you knew how much BTC I've lost to Doge, Reddcoin, Vertcoin, Kittehcoin, 42coin, Globalcoin, Wolong's Pandacoin and some others it would probably make your head spin.
> 
> I've also recouped a lot of that loss with Unobtanium, Zetacoin, Blackcoin and some others.  I've also had new luck dollar cost averaging Doge again as well.  It's the game we play.
> 
> BTC, LTC, NMC, PPC are safer bets.  If you don't like swing trading, buying anywhere between 400-600 won't matter.   People that bought in these ranges will be incredibly happy looking back on things 1 year from now.
> 
> Wall Street getting involved will make China look like a toddler.  Because it will cause a cascade effect on FOREX and other places around the world.  When this happens, there will be new incentive for all of these new guys coming to the table to build businesses and more infrastructure around crypto to spend them.
> ...


I think its possible that a huge percentage of coinholders are ready to unload a peak, and that adoption will be so gradual that we never see parabolic again.

----------


## nayjevin

> Every man is responsible for his own trades.   I can give advice but I don't push the buttons for anyone.


There's a distinction between writing a bot for someone, that is based totally on your opinion of the most valuable indicators and thresholds, and pushing the play button?  I know you're not responsible for my decision to believe in you, but a pro provider is responsible to client needs.  Its the wild west though right?  Then you're beholden to lynch mobs!  Just kidding.




> I sold you some script open source a few months before it was ideal to set it loose.  This is bad? Really?  Apologies on the cool scripts... had you sent me an email noting that I would have sent them out lickety split.


Maybe I wasn't clear, or perhaps my instigative nature and proclivity to language that is inherently not taken lightly, resulting in undue fuming, and therefore understandable exacerbation of situational blindness on your part, but my issue was with what I believed to be a reasonable assumption on my part, based on the information you provided.  The assumption that I would not have much time to buy the bot and recoup the cost before decisions became very difficult for a long term holder like myself.  I don't know what I'd do if ltc was 45 tomorrow, I'd have had no idea what to do then.




> If you can't afford $18/mo for basic+ at crypto trader you shouldn't be trading.


Why would I get a basic+ account.  I'm about to get 10x ltc in 30 days.  Plus a bunch of other cool scripts.




> You don't see any perks to keeping simulations run at cryptotrader or running any of the multitude of great open source available to you there?


Not to my strategy.  AI'm not trying to predict the future.  Not my style.  I was willing to bet on someone good at it though.  Now the subscription is useless, because I don't plan to use your bots, and coffescript is crippled.




> Regarding 0420... You inquired PERSONALLY to me on 3/19... my reply to you was:


You're right, I knew you thought (or at least had told me - remember when I was insane and thought you might be fraudulent like a possible majority of the trollbox that appears to be your 1st/2nd home?) That 420 wasn't happening.  But based on the information you gave in this thread, readers here did not know that.  Maybe I misread or misunderstood.... In fact surely I did - I don't think you have a particular strength in keeping a running tally of how much information each of your audiences are privy to.  If you weren't working so many audiences, through so many avenues of communication, I would be tempted to encourage you to investigate whether it might be a weakness that could be improved upon.




> Push play... let us all know how it worked out for you in a few months.


Yes!  That's how it feels.  




> Homie straight up sorry about that.  My bad.  Until just now I had no idea.  I'm a busy man... you got lossed in the shuffle.  Lets resolve.


Whoa!  Owning mistakes enhances credibility, to me.  In fact, your overall ability to, say, not freak out in the wake of such as we've seen, is AMAZING.  Remember when I was insane?  Sociopaths are good at that.




> Option A) Give me your word you won't ever run my dragon slayer A script.  I'll send 1/2 of your discounted "RPF moderator" special .75 BTC back, just post an address.  You learned a bit about bot code.  I dealt with an unnecessary hassle.  We call it good.


Let's put aside who is right for the moment, and please allow me to be sure you haven't overlooked the fact that I believe you are the primary cause of the unnecessary hassle.  Now let's negotiate.  What I truly believe to be fair is a full refund of the .75, plus 1 month of cryptotrader at $18, plus .75 * ((your ROI + my ROI)/2).




> Option B) I'll send you Part B, the missing free gift package, and a copy of my yet incomplete **SPANK** bot to say I'm sorry.. truly had no clue you never got those scripts.   IIRC I gave you "Dragon Slayer A" on your simple request before I even got any payment from you because I thought so highly of u as a moderator here at RPF.  Not giving you part B after payment was an error in book keeping.  You should have spoken up sooner about it.


True, I should have.  But even when I believed people were going to make money from your bots, I had given up on the possibility that I would, because I can't seem to understand the way you explain things.  And I don't have Skype/hushmail and all this other crap, and I would feel terrible taking the time necessary from you to explain to me what you mean.  And it didn't seem like you would ever answer question in this thread clearly, it seems so cryptic.  So I didn't need anything else.

By the way, thinking highly of me is the surest way to destroy your credibility in my eyes.




> Just let me know what you want, it will happen top of the morning tomorrow.


Remember when I was suffering from a temporary state of believing this is how fast you would like me to shut up about the sketchiness?  Now that I've recovered, shutting up for half price still doesn't seem like quite the fairest deal.




> Were you not here when I said I drove 3 days to flordia and 3 days back to take my 5 year old to see his grandma that he hadn't seen since he was 2?


Yes.  I can only attribute my crazed assumption that this was a ghemmy style sympathy slide to my experience with humans.  I'll try to fix that.




> maybe you just need a hug?


A hell of a lot more than I need 7.63 inches, BigPoppa




> I don't talk to you for a few weeks and I'm a failure?  Whut?


Has nothing to do with me.  In my blind rage I had thought you were making excuses for not keeping in touch with your clients instead of taking responsibility.  In retrospect, as I consider whether to do the dishes today, it may have been an element of projection.




> Did you forget this is RPF and you're a moderator?  There are Terms of Service here.


Sorry, usually I'm above such clinical diagnosis, penisbreath.




> Paladin69 is my sockpuppet?  I really want to smoke some of that.


Remember when I was indistinguishable from a labotomized infirmary inhabitant?  It wasn't because I was smoking something!  I've a heap of sobriety to brag about if I gave a $#@!.  It also wasn't because I don't understand the odds a scammer would use sock puppets.




> having bought into crypto initially w/ $400 last april... not much chance there's room in my murder budget for you.   wtf?


I didn't say there was much chance, I said some chance, unknown.  Surely you recognize exposing sociopathic scammers who use anonymous identities and probably are aware of silk road alternatives would carry risks?




> Show me a back test homie... whatcha got?


I am serious, I have a bot that backtests beautifully.  I'm on my phone ( wow this has been frustrating!  But I didn't want folks to wait to hear my concerns, and I didnt want you, whom I know understand to be pure of heart, to wait too long for a correction.). So it was worth it?

----------


## Petar

I personally never though that it made a hell of a lot of sense to try to time this market using a bunch of charts and whatnot, but getting pissed off and claiming fraud just because you apparently bought into the whole idea seems incredibly childish to me...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> image may extend off edge of screen:


So you're bearish now?  That's cool, I thought something wasn't right with this market.  It's not ready just yet.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I gotta say I'm feeling pretty psyched after timing that last spike almost perfectly.  No sooner had I bought in than it began to go vertical and I had my sell order right at the top.  Honestly, if I make one trade like that each week, I'd be good.

----------


## muh_roads

> I gotta say I'm feeling pretty psyched after timing that last spike almost perfectly.  No sooner had I bought in than it began to go vertical and I had my sell order right at the top.  Honestly, if I make one trade like that each week, I'd be good.


I didn't play it as well this time because I've been messing around with other things.  Is recent info helping in any way?  Check hush.

----------


## muh_roads

> Who said that?  My only unprofitable moves have been:
> 
> -buying the bot
> -cryptotrader pro subscription (valueless to me as coffescript is not capable of implementing my strategy)
> -selling off coin at a loss so I could have enough USD and ltc to run the bot
> -buying dragonslayer at cryptotrader for 1 month when it was version 1.0
> -selling off everything at cryptsy because it sucks
> 
> Aside from that, my positions perfectly match my comfort.  I have  literally zero stress about Crypto.  Don't pigeonhole me!  Good post and  advice for many though.


The way you've been ranting and raving I assumed you lost a lot of money.  And it didn't make much sense to me because I'm not as it relates to bots here.

The definition of trolling as defined by most forums is to "try and provoke a negative response".  I don't appreciate being considered anyone's sock puppet.




> I think its possible that a huge percentage of coinholders are ready to unload a peak, and that adoption will be so gradual that we never see parabolic again.


That's possible.  Who knows?  It's a free market and entirely dependent on where free people want to take this.  If they sell, others that believe in crypto will decide whether they want to scoop cheaper coins or not.

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/sta...91450353295360_Big milestone today for Bitcoin Investment Trust — now holds over 100,000 bitcoin http://t.co/nBzlaGupy4 cc @BitcoinTrust_
_— Barry Silbert (@barrysilbert) April 10, 2014_

----------


## lotsOfCake

I'm looking at ema crossings right now, are any of the bots triggering?

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm looking at ema crossings right now, are any of the bots triggering?


I paused red dragons.  I'm testing one that just buys without selling. It hasn't scooped yet.  If we go below 12 I think I'll manually buy.

----------


## nayjevin

(results would vary greatly depending upon user customization)




> # This automated trading bot is designed to buy dips.  It begins buying on a downward trend.
> # By default it buys tiny portions until a threshold you determine, then begins buying larger
> # chunks as the price continues downward, however, with customization you can determine how much
> # it will buy, and how far down a dip to start buying.
> # By itself the bot will ultimately get you a better price for your coin than if you put all
> # your money in right now.  This assuming the price does not go up from here forever.
> # The bot is also capable of placing limit orders based upon the price it bought.
> # For instance, with a bit of customization, you can tell the bot to sell whatever coin it buys
> # at double the amount it bought it for.  Or you can tell it to sell 50% of your coin when it
> ...


Yes, a trader should sell on the way down and buy on the way up.  Consider the implications of a reverse momentum strategy.

----------


## muh_roads

I think a lot of people have done fairly well over the last couple of weeks bag transferring away from whales.  I'm seeing whale bull trap attempts now but the masses don't look like they are having any part of it.   The green candles are trying but they bail.  I personally think we'll be back in the 11 range soon.

Also, those rumors of Coinbase adding Litecoin won't die.  So we may have another buy the rumor sell the news scenario on our hands similar to Huobi if that materializes more.

I think we're all better prepared now on what to do.  With each new mini-rally I feel I'm becoming a better trader.  I am getting a better feel for when I should turn on red dragon buying.  I then prefer to manually sell it off myself.

Finding the absolute bottom is impossible.  Just scoop low and don't panic if you miss a mini-rally.  If a train takes off we'll probably know about it based on news.  I wouldn't expect any November-style trains for a few more months yet.

----------


## nayjevin

> The definition of trolling as defined by most forums is to "try and provoke a negative response".


I was trying to encourage a positive response.  Admittedly my best attempts amount to 'preachy douche'. 




> Who knows?


http://www.automaticfinances.com/monkey-stock-picking/




> The Wall Street Journal’s Dartboard Contest
> 
> In his popular personal finance book arguing that investors can’t consistently beat the market (A Random Walk Down Wall Street), economist Burton Malkiel says that “a blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a newspaper’s financial pages could select a portfolio that would do just as well as one carefully selected by experts.”
> 
> Sounds like a challenge.
> 
> So, in 1988, the Wall Street Journal decided to see if Malkiel’s theory would hold up, and created the Dartboard Contest.
> 
> How it worked: Wall Street Journal staffers, acting as the monkeys, threw darts at a stock table, while investment experts picked their own stocks. After six months, they compared the results of the two methods. The WSJ even solicited stock picks from some of its readers, and compared them, too.
> ...


http://www.businessinsider.com/cat-b...traders-2013-1




> [Professional wealth managers have long been criticized for charging more than their services are actually worth.
> But getting routed by an animal that spends 20 hours a day either asleep or scratching itself is a new low. 
> In a recent stock-picking challenge, the UK Observer pitted a trio of investment managers against two groups of amateurs: a handful of high school students, and a house cat named Orlando. 
> The cat won.

----------


## muh_roads

Are you comparing a borderless currency without a middleman to a wall street stock?

----------


## LibertyTeeth

So my one-month subscription ended today, and I'm down slightly. Plus out the cost of CryptoTrader and the $100 for the bot for the month.

Question: should I continue the subscription? Or should I wait for a bit before starting it back up again?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I was trying to encourage a positive response.  Admittedly my best attempts amount to 'preachy douche'. 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.automaticfinances.com/monkey-stock-picking/
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/cat-b...traders-2013-1


Cats are pretty smart animals.

----------


## presence

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/...ice/2014/04/20





> A likely target for the ongoing decline is shown at the orange dot near *$260* where a long-term rising trendline crosses the path of price action. The point also represents the natural conclusion of the current decline in five waves and is a likely reversal point that should be achieved in *mid-May*.
> The red point, at label ‘II’ on the support floor, could be the ultimate destination of the current downtrend. Given the slow but steady decline to lower lows during the past four months, *a market bottom at $140 cannot be ruled out.*

----------


## presence

http://www.safecoin.io/




> The crowd sale will commence at 9 am GMT on the 22nd of April. Purchases can be made using either bitcoin or mastercoin with all purchases being recorded on the Bitcoin blockchain, via the Master protocol. It will be possible to trade MaidSafeCoin immediately, and this intermediary coin will remain while the SAFE test network remains in place.


http://www.buysafecoins.com/







> *Buyers Guide*
> 
> 
> You will need to have bitcoins or mastercoins to participate as a Backer in the MaidSafeCoin crowd sale. You should obtain bitcoins or mastercoins from a source that you trust. Great info is available here: bitcoin.org/en/getting-started and mastercoin.orgOnce you have your bitcoins or mastercoins, go to buysafecoins.comAt 9AM GMT, Tuesday 22nd April, two SAFE Network “exodus” addresses will be published, one for Bitcoin, and one for Mastercoin.Backers will receive 17,000 MaidSafeCoins per bitcoin sent to the SAFE Network Bitcoin exodus address or 3400 MaidSafeCoins per mastercoin sent to the SAFE Network Mastercoin exodus address.Send the amount of bitcoins or mastercoins from your wallet to the SAFE exodus address for Bitcoin or Mastercoin (be sure to send only bitcoins to the Bitcoin address, and only mastercoins to the Mastercoin address, or the transactions will be considered invalid). Your purchase will be recorded directly on the Bitcoin block chain.
> Please note: if you are using a coinbase account, or an account where you don’t have control over the private keys please go to Appendix Bhttps://docs.google.com/a/maidsafe.n...2726e6bdb_410:If your funds are returned to you it is either because you have sent currency to the wrong exodus address, e.g. mastercoin to the bitcoin address, or all coins have been sold and the sale has endedAs the funds are received MaidSafeCoins will be issued and sent to the address used to send the funds. Please note that it may take up to 24 hours for these transactions to be processed.Mastercoin block explorers (such as masterchest.info) can be used to view your MaidSafeCoin balance. A Mastercoin wallet (downloadable or web-based) is needed to send MaidSafeCoins to other addresses. Mastercoin wallets are available at mastercoinwallets.orgUsing your Mastercoin wallet, it will be possible to send MaidSafeCoins to the MasterXchange to trade MaidSafeCoins masterxchange.comOnce the full SAFE network is launched, MaidSafeCoins will be swapped for safecoins at a 1:1 ratio.


http://www.coindesk.com/decentralize...safecoin-sale/

----------


## presence

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/2WzYtAZ92E7JNoDzK



> 2014-04-17 02:00 ******* Day: 165.25 Price: 13.31 *******
> 2014-04-17 02:00 10000 Currency: $2316889/2316889 23069% ROI
> 2014-04-17 02:00 4364 Assets: 0/174084 3889% ROI 0% Held
> 2014-04-17 02:00 BUY 1 - Trade Number: 61
> 2014-04-17 02:00 BUY 173557.57 LTC at 13.32
> 2014-04-17 02:00 Simulation completed. Balance: 173557.57 LTC (2312255.37 USD)

----------


## presence

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=528925.0




> *LAUNCH DATE: 26:th of April 20:00 CET
> IPO INVESTMENT PHASE ENDS 25:th of April 20:00 CET*


[AEC] ALTER EGO COIN - LAUNCH April 26 WALLET DOWNLOAD READY

----------


## presence

https://cryptfolio.com/




> *Welcome to CryptFolio BETA*
> 
> CryptFolio lets you keep track of your cryptocurrencies, miners, investments and equities, and generates regular reports of your portfolio.

----------


## presence

https://www.mintpal.com/market/OLY/BTC


BREAKOUT

Olympic Coin

----------


## presence

https://www.digitalmininginvestments.com/

----------


## presence

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/...intpal/10-days

4/20 DOPE pump.  This was pre announced by "prometheous"

----------


## muh_roads

> https://www.digitalmininginvestments.com/


That is a giant heaping bowl of rape...lol

----------


## muh_roads

> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/2WzYtAZ92E7JNoDzK


For only needing two EMA indicators that seems to work surprisingly well.  Does this have bid logic implemented?

----------


## muh_roads

> https://www.mintpal.com/market/OLY/BTC
> BREAKOUT
> Olympic Coin





> http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/...intpal/10-days
> 
> 4/20 DOPE pump.  This was pre announced by "prometheous"


Former Forex traders are having a field day with alt-coins.

It would be cool if any market pair could be implemented into a bot by an end-user.  CT seems limited, but could that be possible with Tradewave once they get their ass in gear?

----------


## presence

> That is a giant heaping bowl of rape...lol



explain?

This is davidpate's mining platform.    Why do you consider to be so weak?

----------


## muh_roads

> explain?
> 
> This is davidpate's mining platform.    Why do you consider to be so weak?


Because $27,500 for 1TH is rape.  The most that would make is 4.5 BTC after a whole year if lucky.  You could buy so much more BTC at current levels for that money.

I had over 8TH for less than double that price (in btc) 6 months ago.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Pres, what do you think are the chances of a BTC breakout in the next hours or days?

----------


## presence

> Pres, what do you think are the chances of a BTC breakout in the next hours or days?



I'm in fiat

----------


## presence

*CINNI/BTC



*https://www.poloniex.com/exchange*



**[ANN] Cinni | Pow phase over!| PoS | No premine - Bitcoin Forum*bitcointalk.org › ... › [ANN] Cinni | Pow phase over!| PoS | No premine‎




5 days ago - 24 posts - ‎11 authors
hi dev, I am so sorry to hear that, and you means that this _coin_ has no giveway? and needs to mine for it.. I understands you that "the reason for ...


*CinniCoin*www.*cinnicoin*.co/‎





Total _coins_: 15 Million Block time: 15 seconds. Difficulty retarget: Every block. Nominal stake interest: 3.5% annually. Transaction fee: 0.005 _CINNI_ Min stake age: ...


*cinni / btc - Coin-Swap | A Revolutionary Cryptocurrency ...*https://*coin*-swap.net/market/*CINNI*/BTC‎





Buy _CINNI_. Amount _CINNI_: Price BTC: Total: 0.00000000 BTC. Trade fee: 0.00000000 BTC (0.5%). Net total: 0.00000000 BTC. Submit Buy Order ...


*CINNI - Coin-Swap | A Revolutionary Cryptocurrency ...*https://*coin*-swap.net/market/*CINNI*/DOGE‎





Buy _CINNI_. Amount _CINNI_: Price DOGE: Total: 0.00000000 DOGE. Trade fee: 0.00000000 DOGE (0.5%). Net total: 0.00000000 DOGE. Submit Buy Order ...


*#CINNI now distributed across 7 great exchanges ... - Inagist*inagist.com/all/459025687521660928/

7 hours ago - _CINNI_ now distributed across 7 great exchanges @AtomicTradeLLC @Bit126 @BittrexExchange @_Coin_-Swap @cryptoALTeX @Europex_ ...


*CINNI/BTC - Cryptocoin charts*https://www.crypto*coin*charts.info/v2/pair/*cinni*/btc/bittrex‎





_CINNI_/BTC - _CINNI_ / Bitcoin 10-days charts and orderbook from Bittrex. Last Price: 0.0301000 mBTC. Profit / Loss 24h: -27.47 %. Volume 24h: 150.54000 BTC ...


*CINNI / Bitcoin (CINNI/BTC) price chart, 10-days, Atomic Trade*www.crypto*coin*charts.info/v2/pair/*cinni*/btc/atomic-trade‎





_CINNI_/BTC - _CINNI_ / Bitcoin 10-days charts and orderbook from Atomic Trade. Last Price: 0.0480000 mBTC. Profit / Loss 24h: +74.23 %. Volume 24h: 195.22000 ...


*CINNI/BTC - CINNI / Bitcoin 5-days charts from Bittrex*www.crypto*coin*charts.info/period-charts.php?period=5...*cinni*...‎





70+ items - _CINNI_/BTC 5-days - _CINNI_ / Bitcoin chart from Bittrex · All time 1 ...Date
Low
High
Open

2014-04-20 21h
0.0145000 mBTC
0.0180000 mBTC
0.0160000 mBTC

2014-04-20 22h
0.0155000 mBTC
0.0480000 mBTC
0.0169700 mBTC

----------


## muh_roads

This feels so pumpy/dumpy.  There is definitely a group of pumpers working together out there on twitter.  I can't figure out the sudden interest in a coin like this.  People just start talking crazy about a coin out of the blue.

The alt-coin community needs to take their Ritalin.  Or let me have some of what they're smoking.  I can't keep up.

----------


## muh_roads

If you're reading this.  Dump all of the portion you allow yourself to trade with.  We are going low.  Huobi took a $#@! for some reason.

----------


## muh_roads

It's scoop time.  This is fun.

I'm moving more over to LTC just because it swings for bigger gains having only 2 very low digits.  Might hit single digit.  When this bounces we'll have so much more.

----------


## lotsOfCake

http://www.bhecard.com/article/detail.jhtml?id=2691
google translate output:
"Declaration on the Prohibition of the payment services company for bitcoin transactions 2014-04-25 16:36 
        To protect the property rights and interests of the public and safeguard the legal status of the yuan currency to prevent money laundering risks, from now on, any organization or individual shall be my company all kinds of payment services for bitcoins, currency and other transactions Wright recharge and withdrawals of funds, purchase and sale of recharge codes and other activities related transactions shall be transferred by my company's services related to trading capital. Once discovered, the company is entitled to immediately stop the service. 
The public found out that the behavior can be reported to the company. 
Hereby acknowledged."

My take on this translation: This payment service will take any _"all kinds of payment services for bitcoins, currency and other transactions Wright recharge and withdrawals of funds, purchase and sale of recharge codes and other activities related transactions"_and define them as "trading capital service", in which case they as a company can legally stop servicing that account (if it is involved in trading bitcoin). They also allow "the public" to report accounts that are doing bitcoin related business.

Note; this an announcement by one specific financial service provider, it is not the PBOC.

Let's see what happens to the indices when the east coast wakes up.

Edit1: added my own interpretation
Edit2: grammar etc

----------


## presence

> *presence* ‏@*oraclepresence** 2m*
> *Did you follow CINNI @poloniex, @announcement was 7300 satoshi.  High 17000 !!!  2.3x !!!! Next pick is WHITECOIN @mintpal details follow*
> *Details
>  Reply  Delete  Favorite  More
> 
> *
> *presence ‏@oraclepresence 1m*
> *Within approximately 24 hours, the first sneak peak of the new layout for http://whitecoinpool.com  will be made available to the public.*
> *Details
> ...


..

----------


## presence

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/wcbtc

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I anticipate that this may be the last leg down before a slow incline/sideways for a while.  If you can find the bottom, it's a pretty safe buy for a couple of weeks, I think.

edit: got in at 438

and by two weeks i mean maybe a week

----------


## XTreat

these new coins can be mined @ ipominer.com its run by the same people who run multipool.

----------


## muh_roads

Buying the LTC/BTC ratio @ 022X-0235

Then setting sells 025X-028.

----------


## muh_roads

Warning, racist post incoming...

Sensative pussies who hate the 1st Amendment better skeedaddle.

--------------

We need Crackercoin & Negrocoin.

I'd like to own 69m CRACKS & NIGS

--------------

So hung over...gotta stop buying cheap booze.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Where is pres during these volatile times?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

I made a nice lil something on the UTC rally and there's still some life left.

----------


## muh_roads

> I made a nice lil something on the UTC rally and there's still some life left.


Awesome!

I didn't play it.  I just sat and watched.  Glad someone did.

----------


## muh_roads

> Where is pres during these volatile times?


litepresence is pretty active on cryptotrader.

----------


## muh_roads

I'm buying NMC & PPC again.  Going below $2 was when I would start and that now happened today.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> litepresence is pretty active on cryptotrader.


Ok, but why isn't he updating his thread here?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I'm buying NMC & PPC again.  Going below $2 was when I would start and that now happened today.


w/ cash or coin?

----------


## muh_roads

cash

the only btc being used is being converted to ltc right now.

----------


## amonasro

Grabbed a bit of profit on the Cinni pump, but not as much as I would have liked as I got greedy. Emotions are not your friend while trading.

Paladin, grabbed some LTC at .023, thanks for the tip. I was too distracted by the altcoin markets to notice

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Tried to pick btc support on the way down, but failed.  It looks super anemic right now.  Not gonna touch it.

----------


## muh_roads

Apparently PIG has a lot of volume in the last 24hr.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> Ok, but why isn't he updating his thread here?


I had at least one question, it would be nice to have an answer.  I've  been a paying customer and am considering it again.  It makes me  uncomfortable stating this as that moderator got a poor reception for  similar sentiment, and I'm not negative, I just have questions that have  gone unanswered.

----------


## presence

Sorry RPF people... been working behind the scenes for the whitecoin community:


*


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:*

Whitecoin Development Team
April 29th 8 PM EST

*Blockchain Secured*

We are pleased to announce a solution regarding the security of WhiteCoin’s blockchain. Tonight -at 11:30PM EST- WhiceCoin holders may resume movement of their coins and all exchanges will be reopened. WhiteCoin’s block chain is stable and secure.

The new WhiteCoin development team has been working tirelessly since Saturday to implement a thoroughly tested and permanent fix to this multifaceted issue. The leadership team -in consultation with the community- has reached a decision to split these endeavors so that coin transfer functionality may resume tonight.

*POS Staking*

A wallet update will be released to address the staking issue in the upcoming days.  For the health and stability of WhiteCoin, at least 24 hours notice will be provided. 

The crypto community has come together in an unprecedented manner in support of WhiteCoin. We believe this project will continue to gain momentum as plans for the creation of the WhiteCoin Foundation are released for community consideration. 

WhiteCoin has the market standing and incredible community support required to become a leading e-commerce payment vehicle, and with this weekend’s developments WhiteCoin has become the people’s coin. Here are 3 facts to remember.


Whitecoin’s impressive trading volume remains in the top tenWhitecoin is one of very few crypto currencies listed at bitcoinwisdom.com/Whitecoin is available for purchase at Mintpal, Cryptsy, Poloniex and many more exchanges.


*Start your engines traders! The WhiteCoin train is back on track.*


Thank you to everyone who made this possible, 



For further information please contact:  https://twitter.com/mogonz0  -or- mogonzo[at]chunkypools.com

----------


## presence

https://twitter.com/mogonz0/status/461298348407148544

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...391#msg6465391


Short and skinny on whitecoin.  

The coin was supposed to transition from a POW coin to a POS coin. This was supposed to drive price up because multipools would be buying WC to pay off their miners.  The "Stake" phase did not happen; glitch in the code. The coin dev was nowhere to be found.   We've amassed a NEW development team for the coin contacted the original owner.  We have essentially taken over.   The coin has gone through a serious attack in the last 48 hours which we have been able to fend off w/ some massive hashing power.   Some deep rooted investors from "old crypto" money have decided to back the coin and its development.  

More as it becomes available to me.  

Mintpal is the highest volume exchange, setting up an account is painless.

WC is also now listed at bitcoinwisdom:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/wcbtc


more info:

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#whitecoin

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channel...coinfoundation

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channel...intransparency

----------


## presence

> So my one-month subscription ended today, and I'm down slightly. Plus out the cost of CryptoTrader and the $100 for the bot for the month.
> 
> Question: should I continue the subscription? Or should I wait for a bit before starting it back up again?



Which bot are you running man?

I think Paladin has been doing well w/ Dragon Slayer B.   Part A is really meant for a 'bullish bubble circumstance'  It seems to me we are still bear market down.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Its my suggestion that disable live traders at cryptotrader.org and review this thread:
https://cryptotrader.org/topics/1323...the-new-normal




> *alex* about 9 hours ago
> 
> ok everyone will be given a compensation after we iron all bugs out

----------


## presence

..


> HOME >> LATEST NEWS*MIT Bitcoin Project aims to create a cryptocurrency ecosystem**Rob Marvin*
> 
> 
> April 29, 2014 —  Two MIT students, first-year MBA student andBitcoin Club founder Dan Elitzer, and sophomore Jeremy Rubin, have raised US$500 million from MIT alumni and the Bitcoin community to launch the MIT Bitcoin Project.  
> 
> The ambitious MIT initiative looks to turn the university into a digital currency ecosystem by distributing $100 in bitcoins to each of the 4,528 undergraduate students starting next school year. MIT will become the first location worldwide with widespread access to Bitcoin.
> 
> *(Related: A look at a Big Data monitoring system)*
> 
> ...

----------


## presence

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty


Difficulty increase past hour.

----------


## muh_roads

> Its my suggestion that disable live traders at cryptotrader.org and review this thread:
> https://cryptotrader.org/topics/1323...the-new-normal


All 4 Red Dragons have been paused.

They did a good job buying on the way down.  It wanted to sell NMC @ 2.1 after buying 1.9 but was feeling greedy and cancelled.

I heard my Reddcoin did well today.  I wasn't paying attention and missed whatever happened there I think.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
> 
> 
> Difficulty increase past hour.


Part of that (the previous increase in hash rate) is people moving out of sha256 alts and over to Bitcoin. New asics hitting the market en masse soon. 

I'm always fascinated when looking at the hash rate increase... It should stop the exponential rise and go linear... I mean it will be limited by Moore's law.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Hey presence, good to see you again.  Interesting news about Whitecoin.

I was running Red Dragon A, and I'd like to continue to be involved.  What would you recommend at this time?

Thanks!

----------


## lotsOfCake

heard some fud about whitecoin, better pay attention;
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Whitecoin&src=hash
its (temporarily?) unavailable on mintpal. if i was to guess, it is proof-of-stake related.

----------


## lotsOfCake

(doubleposted by mistake, see next page)

----------


## lotsOfCake

This is not a prediction. It is a way of trying to quantify the support level. It is based on the idea that "If people are pulling out of alts, they probably expect btc to tank or crash".

Note: If I was to speculate wildly, I would guess that ltcbtc has become more stable; stability fosters growth; recovery will be drastic and sudden. It might also be a "bounce off of support" like what happened between the squares in the picture. Don't panic sell, don't panic buy, proceed with rational expectations of what will happen. Sell at tops, buy at dips.

Note2: if you cant see the whole picture, go here : http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=vyn9y&s=8

----------


## FSP-Rebel

What's up w/ Poloneix? Trading seems to have been frozen all day.

----------


## amonasro

> What's up w/ Poloneix? Trading seems to have been frozen all day.


I switched over to MintPal. Much better exchange, great volume (for altcoins) although they don't trade the more obscure coins.

----------


## muh_roads

> I switched over to MintPal. Much better exchange, great volume (for altcoins) although they don't trade the more obscure coins.


You might wanna give comkort a look.

I bought some PWNY there in anticipation of brony MLP ****.

----------


## lotsOfCake

My latest doodle:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/351hmhw.jpg
overlaid logarithmic historic bitcoin price, aligned by when bubble started.
source; bitcoinwisdom 1d bitstamp btc/usd

Edit: note that the 4th chart is scaled differently in Y axis since there was no 2nd bubble in that time frame, so it looks like the price is more volatile, when it isn't.

----------


## muh_roads

I'm buying LTC again between 10 & 10.30

----------


## PaulConventionWV

It's really disappointing what this thread has become.

----------


## amonasro

> It's really disappointing what this thread has become.


Well, the Bitcoin market is pretty boring lately. Dragon Slayer shouldn't be used unless you're brave and want to run part B so there's not many people talking about it. Regardless of any personal opinion on alts, there is money to be made (or lost) in the altcoin markets now if you play the volatility right and have the extra time to learn how it all works. Pres is well-connected in the crypto community so his tips are usually legit. I would not recommend it to a beginner--if you ride the pumps too high (they resemble mini versions of crypto bubbles) there won't be any liquidity by the time you decide to sell, and the price gets knocked down by other traders within minutes.

I don't want to sound like an ad here, but Pres has been busy with Whitecoin and I've donated some time to promoting it as well. There is a strong community behind it getting the damn thing working and stable after the original dev abandoned it and its blockchain was attacked. These proof-of-stake coins are a bit of a challenge, it seems.

----------


## muh_roads

> Grabbed a bit of profit on the Cinni pump, but not as much as I would have liked as I got greedy. Emotions are not your friend while trading.
> 
> Paladin, grabbed some LTC at .023, thanks for the tip. I was too distracted by the altcoin markets to notice


How did you do on this?  I think it got to 025

----------


## amonasro

> How did you do on this?  I think it got to 025


Got out @ .0245

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well, the Bitcoin market is pretty boring lately. Dragon Slayer shouldn't be used unless you're brave and want to run part B so there's not many people talking about it. Regardless of any personal opinion on alts, there is money to be made (or lost) in the altcoin markets now if you play the volatility right and have the extra time to learn how it all works. Pres is well-connected in the crypto community so his tips are usually legit. I would not recommend it to a beginner--if you ride the pumps too high (they resemble mini versions of crypto bubbles) there won't be any liquidity by the time you decide to sell, and the price gets knocked down by other traders within minutes.
> 
> I don't want to sound like an ad here, but Pres has been busy with Whitecoin and I've donated some time to promoting it as well. There is a strong community behind it getting the damn thing working and stable after the original dev abandoned it and its blockchain was attacked. These proof-of-stake coins are a bit of a challenge, it seems.


It has been boring lately, but there is an impending decision to be made in the market, and it would be nice to be able to discuss where it's heading without relying exclusively on random ideas on Tradingview.com or elsewhere.  The descending triangle that BTC has been in since its peak is about to come to and end and it doesn't look good right now.  I have an idea of what is going on, but trying to act on my own would be foolhardy.

----------


## muh_roads

Quite the drop tonight.  China must've owned all the BTC...lol

----------


## amonasro

> It has been boring lately, but there is an impending decision to be made in the market, and it would be nice to be able to discuss where it's heading without relying exclusively on random ideas on Tradingview.com or elsewhere.  The descending triangle that BTC has been in since its peak is about to come to and end and it doesn't look good right now.  I have an idea of what is going on, but trying to act on my own would be foolhardy.


Here's my take. Every time we go below 400 there is massive buy pressure. I think it is a trigger price for a lot of people, kind of like $60-80 was during last year's capitulation. Visiting $266 is not impossible but it's unlikely enough in my eyes that I will be holding my trading stash (not touching cold storage) barring some catastrophic event. The market has largely priced in China as these last few big drops have pretty much shaken the tree bare, transferring coins to stronger hands.

----------


## muh_roads

This site is interesting.

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/

Thanks Paul for mentioning...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> This site is interesting.
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/
> 
> Thanks Paul for mentioning...


No problem.  I didn't know you were unaware of it.

----------


## muh_roads

> No problem.  I didn't know you were unaware of it.


I've been out of the btc news loop for a while.  Just haven't been looking as this slow downtrend is really boring.

Here is some interesting TA.  I was saying $350 a couple weeks ago.
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/...sis/2014/05/05

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Thanks, pres.  That confirms my suspicions.  What's the timeline on the 260 mark?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

If you wanted to short the market, how would you do that?

----------


## muh_roads

> If you wanted to short the market, how would you do that?


Bitfinex

----------


## nayjevin

Traders profitable in the past are now stretching to 'create' opportunities.  Careful out there, sports fans!

----------


## muh_roads

> Traders profitable in the past are now stretching to 'create' opportunities.  Careful out there, sports fans!


It looks like it was a winning strategy if you had a time machine to go back 2 months, but yeah, I personally wouldn't try it.  Short selling on margin sounds way too scary and crypto is so unpredictable.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It looks like it was a winning strategy if you had a time machine to go back 2 months, but yeah, I personally wouldn't try it.  Short selling on margin sounds way too scary and crypto is so unpredictable.


You wouldn't try shorting?  Why not?

----------


## muh_roads

> You wouldn't try shorting?  Why not?


Margin trading is what freaks me out.  "Shorting" by simply selling is safer.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

//

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Margin trading is what freaks me out.  "Shorting" by simply selling is safer.


Oh, so you're talking about just selling instead of holding.  I was talking about margin selling.  What's so dangerous about it?

----------


## muh_roads

> Oh, so you're talking about just selling instead of holding.  I was talking about margin selling.  What's so dangerous about it?


Basically it leverages what you have.  You can leverage 2.5x, so if you have $100 in there you can actually trade with $250 by borrowing from the liquidity swaps other people put up.

If you play your cards right, you can make a ton of money.  If things don't go in the direction you wanted, then the margin call comes in and you can lose your ass because now you might owe more than what you actually put into the account.  The finer details I'm not sure.

In my example above, when shorting on margin, it may be the $150 difference that you get to play with and buying is the full $250.  Not sure on that.

I'm just not a fan of borrowing money from others in that way.  When I take out a 0% loan advance or borrow from family they aren't gonna margin call on me, heh.  I have time to correct any mistakes I made or just slowly pay back what I owe.

Watch that video above and see if margin trading is a risk you are willing to try.  Can always start with a tiny amount that u can afford to lose.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Basically it leverages what you have.  You can leverage 2.5x, so if you have $100 in there you can actually trade with $250 by borrowing from the liquidity swaps other people put up.
> 
> If you play your cards right, you can make a ton of money.  If things don't go in the direction you wanted, then the margin call comes in and you can lose your ass because now you might owe more than what you actually put into the account.  The finer details I'm not sure.
> 
> In my example above, when shorting on margin, it may be the $150 difference that you get to play with and buying is the full $250.  Not sure on that.
> 
> I'm just not a fan of borrowing money from others in that way.  When I take out a 0% loan advance or borrow from family they aren't gonna margin call on me, heh.  I have time to correct any mistakes I made or just slowly pay back what I owe.
> 
> Watch that video above and see if margin trading is a risk you are willing to try.  Can always start with a tiny amount that u can afford to lose.


Now that you mention, it I do have available funds in my bitfinex account of over twice what I put in there.  I don't think I'll be using quite that much, though.  I have the same policy as you on borrowing money.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Just got my first short position in BTC.  Set the stop order at just above the downward trendline and waiting for the bottom now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Just got my first short position in BTC.  Set the stop order at just above the downward trendline and waiting for the bottom now.


Cool, keep us updated.  I have an account with them but never bothered to use it yet.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Just got my first short position in BTC.  Set the stop order at just above the downward trendline and waiting for the bottom now.


Please tell me your stop order is above the current price.  So, if it goes up too much, you'll automatically sell and take your losses, right?

----------


## muh_roads

So something I've had on my mind for a while now has been backed up elsewhere.  And that is NMC & PPC stand to gain more percentage wise over BTC & LTC during these mini-rallies.  I think NMC reached $15 at the height of the last bubble up from $1.  Although we aren't near the next paradigm shift yet.

I'm going to rebuy NMC & PPC around the $2 range and less.  Then try selling again around $2.30 or so.  Worked out well the last two times.  There are alts out there that can make bigger moves but I have no luck with them personally because they are so wild and I can't look at a trading screen all day.

Of all the big percentage moving alts, NMC & PPC seems to be the safest.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Please tell me your stop order is above the current price.  So, if it goes up too much, you'll automatically sell and take your losses, right?


Duh.  You think I'm stupid?

Oh, and it's buy, not sell.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Cool, keep us updated.  I have an account with them but never bothered to use it yet.


It's pretty cool.  They show you exactly what your balance is at the current price.  Due to fees, I'm slightly in the red, but probably not for long.

edit: Target is 335 to be safe.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Hey, just making sure!




> Oh, and it's buy, not sell.


That's true.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Hey, just making sure!
> 
> 
> That's true.


Thanks for your concern.

----------


## presence

Did you miss my tweet re: CINNI????

https://twitter.com/oraclepresence/s...36464067428352







BUY *MYR  !!!*

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Can somebody help me determine just where that downward trendline is for BTC?  I'm looking at stamp and the one I drew looks like it's already been crossed, but it's still not even close on BTC-e.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

There's no way this is enough volume to break through.  It's going to crash soon.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

> Thanks for your concern.


 And I really wasn't thinking you were stupid in any way, it was just how you phrased it as being slightly above _the downward trend_ that made me think the order might be set below the current price, which of course would kind of defeat the purpose, or at least leave you at risk until it did fall below that point.

Anyway, good job, sounds like you're having fun.  Hope you make a bundle!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> And I really wasn't thinking you were stupid in any way, it was just how you phrased it as being slightly above _the downward trend_ that made me think the order might be set below the current price, which of course would kind of defeat the purpose, or at least leave you at risk until it did fall below that point.
> 
> Anyway, good job, sounds like you're having fun.  Hope you make a bundle!


All is well, Helmuth.  The downward trend is the downward sloping line drawn on a chart above which BTC has not crossed since its peak.Doing so would signifiy a fundamental shift in the market.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Hmm.  Somehow I get the feeling that I was trolled, a few months back.

Why abandon your users, just to chase a new coin?

Oh well; "if it looks too good" etc.

----------


## nayjevin

> Hmm.  Somehow I get the feeling that I was trolled, a few months back.
> 
> Why abandon your users, just to chase a new coin?
> 
> Oh well; "if it looks too good" etc.



It was just coincidence!  We were unlucky China Ema crossovered but chickun to the moon because fontas broke resistance on the 10/21 weekly chart.  Don't lose faith.  Sign up for my newsletter and receive a hot tip chance to make 40x ROI vs the dumpcoin/nmc ratio.  Donations accepted.  Go Ron Paul freedom yay!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It was just coincidence!  We were unlucky China Ema crossovered but chickun to the moon because fontas broke resistance on the 10/21 weekly chart.  Don't lose faith.  Sign up for my newsletter and receive a hot tip chance to make 40x ROI vs the dumpcoin/nmc ratio.  Donations accepted.  Go Ron Paul freedom yay!


Didn't you get your money back?  What are you still griping about?

----------


## muh_roads

> Hmm.  Somehow I get the feeling that I was trolled, a few months back.
> 
> Why abandon your users, just to chase a new coin?
> 
> Oh well; "if it looks too good" etc.


If you're one of his users you should've got the memo about WC a while ago.  But be glad you didn't.  He told his members to get into WC around 1200.  Now it is below 500.  Instead of abandoning them pres is busy trying to help people break close to even.

Basically a problem happened with WC and the core developers abandoned the project.  The circle of friends pres surrounds himself with decided to take up the coin themselves.  One of the developers on the new WC that pres is friends with is the guy who made Coinye West.

I think the entire thing is silly and retarded but pres has members he needs to take care of first.  It's just a shame this now has to be his full attention instead of coding bots.  I think things are going to take off soon.  Things are leveling off and volume is slowing down so it looks like China has been almost priced out and don't matter so much anymore.

I'd hate to miss the boat by not having the most perfect bot possible which was caused by $#@!ing around with a silly $#@!coin.

----------


## nayjevin

> Didn't you get your money back?  What are you still griping about?


No, I received no response.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> If you're one of his users you should've got the memo about WC a while ago.  But be glad you didn't.  He told his members to get into WC around 1200.  Now it is below 500.  Instead of abandoning them pres is busy trying to help people break close to even.
> 
> Basically a problem happened with WC and the core developers abandoned the project.  The circle of friends pres surrounds himself with decided to take up the coin themselves.  One of the developers on the new WC that pres is friends with is the guy who made Coinye West.
> 
> I think the entire thing is silly and retarded but pres has members he needs to take care of first.  It's just a shame this now has to be his full attention instead of coding bots.  I think things are going to take off soon.  Things are leveling off and volume is slowing down so it looks like China has been almost priced out and don't matter so much anymore.
> 
> I'd hate to miss the boat by not having the most perfect bot possible which was caused by $#@!ing around with a silly $#@!coin.


That's a shame.  Maybe we can move past the $#@!coins once this is over.

----------


## nayjevin

> If you're one of his users you should've got the memo about WC a while ago.  But be glad you didn't.  He told his members to get into WC around 1200.  Now it is below 500.  Instead of abandoning them pres is busy trying to help people break close to even.
> 
> Basically a problem happened with WC and the core developers abandoned the project.  The circle of friends pres surrounds himself with decided to take up the coin themselves.  One of the developers on the new WC that pres is friends with is the guy who made Coinye West.
> 
> I think the entire thing is silly and retarded but pres has members he needs to take care of first.  It's just a shame this now has to be his full attention instead of coding bots.  I think things are going to take off soon.  Things are leveling off and volume is slowing down so it looks like China has been almost priced out and don't matter so much anymore.
> 
> I'd hate to miss the boat by not having the most perfect bot possible which was caused by $#@!ing around with a silly $#@!coin.


Send an email to 50 people that says Going up!  Send Going down! To the other 50.  When it goes up, tell the ups, buy my advice, I'm a genius!  Tell the downs, sorry, let me help you break even!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No, I received no response.


If that's the case, then I would hope pres does right by you and pays you back, like he said he would, if he wants to regain the trust of his clients here.

----------


## muh_roads

> Send an email to 50 people that says Going up!  Send Going down! To the other 50.  When it goes up, tell the ups, buy my advice, I'm a genius!  Tell the downs, sorry, let me help you break even!


No it wasn't like that.  I am inside the group and everyone is complaining.  pres bought around 1200 himself and didn't sell.  one guy who is part of the dev team bought 84 btc worth at 900.  And he admits he spent more than he can afford to lose.

They make fun of me for my past Doge mistake.  I may be a $#@! trader but at least I don't play with such large percentages of total btc portfolio like some of these guys do...lol

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Send an email to 50 people that says Going up!  Send Going down! To the other 50.  When it goes up, tell the ups, buy my advice, I'm a genius!  Tell the downs, sorry, let me help you break even!


It takes more than a simple prediction to gain a following.  Either way, though, I would hope he gives you your due.

----------


## muh_roads

> That's a shame.  Maybe we can move past the $#@!coins once this is over.


I don't think they ever will.  Just like penny stocks.  People know they suck but a new sucker to transfer your bags to is born every minute.

I personally would prefer it if we only talked about BTC, LTC, PPC, NMC, and Doge here but people will post whatever they wish.  Doge isn't nearly as well established but their online community is 2nd to BTC.

----------


## muh_roads

btw pres, I still love u man.

I just wish we could keep our eyes on the prize.  Preparing for the next paradigm run on the main coins to their fullest potential should be the goal.

People that play with $#@!coins are getting too greedy.  The big money jumps out too fast for them to be a worthwhile focus on.

----------


## muh_roads

Not good in the land of Whitecoin.

https://www.mintpal.com/market/WC/BTC

That spread...wow

----------


## nayjevin

> It takes more than a simple prediction to gain a following.  Either way, though, I would hope he gives you your due.


It's a simplified version of what sports betting 'experts' have been doing for decades.  Pres has my BTC address, once from a donation I gave him that he didn't acknowledge, once from buying the bot. If I pushed openly for a refund, I wouldn't have gotten a good read on intentions.  Free unregulated markets put a premium on customer retention.  We are seeing the inevitable.

----------


## muh_roads

> It's a simplified version of what sports betting 'experts' have been doing for decades.  Pres has my BTC address, once from a donation I gave him that he didn't acknowledge, once from buying the bot. If I pushed openly for a refund, I wouldn't have gotten a good read on intentions.  Free unregulated markets put a premium on customer retention.  We are seeing the inevitable.


The US Dollar also has scammers.  Scamming people out of money with no recourse is nothing new that started with BTC.

Not saying pres is a scammer.  Just staying on point with your dislike for free markets.  I'm sure pres will refund you.  But being a major pain in the ass doesn't make him move any faster I'm sure.

Before regulations came along, people in the old west towns had to be nice to each other.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> No it wasn't like that.  I am inside the group and everyone is complaining.  pres bought around 1200 himself and didn't sell.  one guy who is part of the dev team bought 84 btc worth at 900.  And he admits he spent more than he can afford to lose.


Yeah, I usually part w/ a .3 to test these coins out and WC is the only one that hasn't came through. I went a little too strong for my tastes on CINNI but it definitely made me happy after a short hold. The thing is here, easy come and easy flop at times. As for the guy that went 84 deep on one of these:

----------


## presence

> The US Dollar also has scammers.  Scamming people out of money with no recourse is nothing new that started with BTC.
> 
> Not saying pres is a scammer.  Just staying on point with your dislike for free markets.  I'm sure pres will refund you.  But being a major pain in the ass doesn't make him move any faster I'm sure.
> 
> Before regulations came along, people in the old west towns had to be nice to each other.



Last I recall I offered half his money back and he refused wanting all of it back. Sorry but nobody is getting full refund after getting open source code from me.   

My offer still stands for half.  But ffs...  homie needs to get past himself... send me an email and deal with it privately.   This continual bull$#@! about me being a scammer every time I read through this thread has totally turned me off to even sharing market insight anymore around here... first it was Oz now its najevin.  I'm over it; I did this as a community service not for financial gain... I frankly don't need the $#@!.   I do just fine trading on my own.

----------


## presence

> Yeah, I usually part w/ a .3 to test these coins out and WC is the only one that hasn't came through. I went a little too strong for my tastes on CINNI but it definitely made me happy after a short hold. The thing is here, easy come and easy flop at times. As for the guy that went 84 deep on one of these:



I feel for the guy.   Real nice guy... he had no intentions of going 84 coins deep but slept in "buy support" walls... well news came out that NONE of us were expecting... the coin was $#@!ed... $#@! tanked and next thing you know homie was holding his bank in a falling rock.  

I've done everything I can to try to generate PR with the coin... tweeted the $#@! out of it... ads... assembled a pr team in IRC... assembled a bunch of twitterites... We even raised some money for devs that ultimately took the coin (WC) from the old dev and rebuilt it from the ground up including new wallets for windows and mac.

WC has gone from a scammer's coin to a bonafide "community" built coin... 

but lost of people got burnt and until the dust clears... my 9.7mil WC bag holding friend is going to have to hold through or dump and cry.    I'm really at a loss for what is best.   I consider my 700k WC investment a long hold / loss.  Is what it is... investing in small cap coins is high risk.  sometimes you lose 50% or more... but sometimes... when the timing is right... things go 10X 20X or 100X.


WC wasn't even "my" pick at first... MoosaNYC and Prometheus from BTCe were the two that got us all into it.   I just kind of went along for the ride... then when our trading group was balls deep... that's when I got involved in marketing / pr / whitecoinfoundation board.  etc.   I still am working behind the scenes to help get the coin back on its feet.  I spoke today w/ people from blackcoin about a cross party pr /marketing campaign.  We'll see how that pans.  

Nonetheless... atm WC is a $#@!ing mess.   I've reduced my holdings and traded on the way down to reduce my average buy, but things aren't sweet right now for those that bought in last week or two weeks ago.   With all the hype and community I've helped create at #whitecoinfoundation... there is a good chance for WC long... but you're in that predicament of "calling a bottom" rather than "accumulating on sideways" as was originally hoped.  When i entered #whitecoinfoundation on IRC there were only 8 people... I promoted the room and there has been a consistant 100 + people daily in that room since... with siderooms #wc-pr #whitecointwitterpump and a few others that are related to dev and board meetings.      

LP

----------


## presence

WC and nayjevin bs aside... I'm really bullish on Myriad Coin MYR at Mintpal exchange.   Here are some links:

http://coinbrief.net/what_is_myriadcoin/


http://www.reddit.com/r/myriadcoin/c...eye_on_myriad/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbjOl2QnnJ4


https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-myr...hanges.267220/


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=483515.0


http://www.coinssource.com/crypto-coins/myriadcoin/


Great Article
http://coinjoint.info/myriadcoin-TAKE-NOTICE/ 


Myriad Data
http://bitinfocharts.com/myriadcoin/


Mintpal Price Chart by litepresence
http://imgur.com/J33XfUR




http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurren..._that_matters/

----------


## presence

> I'd hate to miss the boat by not having the most perfect bot possible which was caused by $#@!ing around with a silly $#@!coin.



I hear that.


Mom wants me to invest $5000 on LTCUSD script for her.  I need to shift focus back to code.   

I feel pulled in so many directions... I've got too many irons in the fire.  Ready to put myself in a dark room and say $#@! it to WC foundation... $#@! it to my skype trading group... $#@! it to my myriadcoin investment... and just go back to bot dev full time.  I was doing really well there for a while and lost focus when I went out of town.  


Tomorrow will be a focus on script day... there really is no reason I can't iron out the final pieces in a a day or two.     Just need to focus!

LP

----------


## presence

> It was just coincidence!  We were unlucky China Ema crossovered but chickun to the moon because fontas broke resistance on the 10/21 weekly chart.  Don't lose faith.  Sign up for my newsletter and receive a hot tip chance to make 40x ROI vs the dumpcoin/nmc ratio.  Donations accepted.  Go Ron Paul freedom yay!







did I say that?

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I hear that.
> 
> 
> Mom wants me to invest $5000 on LTCUSD script for her.  I need to shift focus back to code.   
> 
> I feel pulled in so many directions... I've got too many irons in the fire.  Ready to put myself in a dark room and say $#@! it to WC foundation... $#@! it to my skype trading group... $#@! it to my myriadcoin investment... and just go back to bot dev full time.  I was doing really well there for a while and lost focus when I went out of town.  
> 
> 
> Tomorrow will be a focus on script day... there really is no reason I can't iron out the final pieces in a a day or two.     Just need to focus!
> ...


Most of us here know you're legit, pres.  If not, you wouldn't still be around.  Oz was a sheister himself.  I know I don't want you to go because I still find your analysis very valuable.  I'm in a hole now, but as soon as things pick up again, which should be soon if I am successful in shorting BTC, then I'll send a tip your way.  Please keep it up.

----------


## presence

bitcoin wisdom added myriad today

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/myrbtc  Myriad


also recently these "hidden" markets:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/wcbtc  Whitecoin
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/drkbtc  Darkcoin
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/bcbtc  Blackcoin
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/caibtc  CAIshen
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/cinnibtc Cinnicoin
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/fltbtc  Fluttercoin
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mintpal/zetbtc Zetacoin

----------


## nayjevin

> Last I recall I offered half his money back and he refused wanting all of it back. Sorry but nobody is getting full refund after getting open source code from me.


Then you haven't been reading my posts.  I made my case for why half refund was insufficient.  You didn't respond.  Furthermore, LOL, your code is not open source.  It is on cryptotrader, which keeps it closed source.

  For whatever reason I don't understand, you voluntarily sent me some script in PM for a bull market that still hasn't occurred.  I am unable to compare that code to the closed source bot I assume you are still selling at cryptotrader.

  If it were open source, why would you sell it? You simply don't know how to program an encrypted, closed, self contained executable that you can sell independently of cryptotrader.  If you could, you would.  The extent to which your code is open is the extent you wish it wasn't.  You, nor your code , resemble open source standards.




> My offer still stands for half.


You didn't even send me half of the product I paid for.  And I used it twice, lost money both times.  BTC still hasn't seen a market where it might be useful.  You were misleading.  You did not disclose necessary and proper basic information about the way it works. 

 You did not disclose the fact that it is worthless to small time investors, as it is programmed to assume less than $500, I think it was, would want to go all in now, just to have some coin.  Found that out when ltc was $20+ , I think.  It's $10 now.

 Your pitch took advantage of the gray area of back testing 'wow' factor to all but promise returns you later admitted you knew were not possible.

I'm bored, but that's not all.




> But ffs...  homie needs to get past himself... send me an email and deal with it privately.


It's all about me?  I'm not the self proclaimed expert that needs to allude to phallic superiority in my documentation.  And I don't charge people for failed strategies and analysis without explanation, only to later call it a 'community service'.




> This continual bull$#@! about me being a scammer every time I read through this thread has totally turned me off to even sharing market insight anymore around here...


Continual: I gave you weeks to respond, after weeks of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and there still has been no market change in BTC it BTC/ltc to lead one to believe your analysis has merit.  Looks to me like you let us help you unload ltc at last peak and are now pushing crapcoin as charitable ' community service'.

Bull$#@!:  calling it doesn't make it so.  You have yet to address many criticisms.  You are far more likely to respond to potential doubt of potential customers than to any sense of justice toward those you have wronged.




> first it was Oz now its najevin.


Sigh, guilt by association fallacy, that guy was a nutball, and all I remember is that he disagreed with you once.




> I'm over it;


.

 You never weren't.  Quite obviously to me you don't give a $#@! about anyone who loses money because of you.

I received donations to go to NH for operation live free or die in 2007, and I failed.  I had poor judgment and was not as effective as I should have been.  Everyone I've been able to get in touch with has said don't worry about it, or said they felt they got their money's worth anyway.  I'm not over it.  I dreamed of paying everyone back in their choice of gold, silver, BTC, ltc, or nmc plus interest.  Here I saw opportunity to restore any confidence in independent grassroots projects I may have contributed to damaging, get some strapped folks who sacrificed for my opportunity some purchasing power, and relieve my own guilt.  Dare I fantasize of profit? I was a sucker, and also got screwed. 




> I did this as a community service not for financial gain... I frankly don't need the $#@!.   I do just fine trading on my own.


You failed.  It's all right here in this thread, and you won't admit it, and you're blaming me.  And trying to get me to shut up by only sacrificing half of the pure profit made by misleading me.  Some community member.

----------


## nayjevin

> Most of us here know you're legit, pres...I know I don't want you to go because I still find your analysis very valuable.  I'm in a hole now....


LOL listen to yourself.

----------


## presence

http://www.altcoingraphs.com/

badass

----------


## presence

yeah so... nayjevin... I made it a few words into your response.  

/ignore

send me an email we'll work something out.





> Sorry nayjevin is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.



absolutely lulzy


seems I'll have to script kiddie my way around that via browser on another day. 

Until then mouse scroll will work just fine.   

Such a hater.  I have no time for your pity trip.  Sorry.

----------


## nayjevin

> Just staying on point with your dislike for free markets.


Feel free to read my public opinions on free markets.  You may enjoy my defense of free market solutions to private roads, prisons, and patents.

If I didn't like free markets, this would all be summed up in a legal brief.  But I'm not worried about my money, which is why I used it as leverage to induce a more enlightening response.  For the children.

----------


## nayjevin

*WHO IS LITEPRESENCE?*




> yeah so... nayjevin... I made it a few words into your response.  
> 
> /ignore


what!!!???!!!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5524491

This was Nayjevin's post:




> Last I recall I offered half his money back and he refused wanting all of it back. Sorry but nobody is getting full refund after getting open source code from me.


Then you haven't been reading my posts. I made my case for why half refund was insufficient. You didn't respond. Furthermore, LOL, your code is not open source. It is on cryptotrader, which keeps it closed source.

For whatever reason I don't understand, you voluntarily sent me some script in PM for a bull market that still hasn't occurred. I am unable to compare that code to the closed source bot I assume you are still selling at cryptotrader.

If it were open source, why would you sell it? You simply don't know how to program an encrypted, closed, self contained executable that you can sell independently of cryptotrader. If you could, you would. The extent to which your code is open is the extent you wish it wasn't. You, nor your code , resemble open source standards.




> My offer still stands for half.


You didn't even send me half of the product I paid for. And I used it twice, lost money both times. BTC still hasn't seen a market where it might be useful. You were misleading. You did not disclose necessary and proper basic information about the way it works. 

You did not disclose the fact that it is worthless to small time investors, as it is programmed to assume less than $500, I think it was, would want to go all in now, just to have some coin. Found that out when ltc was $20+ , I think. It's $10 now.

Your pitch took advantage of the gray area of back testing 'wow' factor to all but promise returns you later admitted you knew were not possible.

I'm bored, but that's not all.




> But ffs... homie needs to get past himself... send me an email and deal with it privately.


It's all about me? I'm not the self proclaimed expert that needs to allude to phallic superiority in my documentation. And I don't charge people for failed strategies and analysis without explanation, only to later call it a 'community service'.




> This continual bull$#@! about me being a scammer every time I read through this thread has totally turned me off to even sharing market insight anymore around here...


Continual: I gave you weeks to respond, after weeks of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and there still has been no market change in BTC it BTC/ltc to lead one to believe your analysis has merit. Looks to me like you let us help you unload ltc at last peak and are now pushing crapcoin as charitable ' community service'.

Bull$#@!: calling it doesn't make it so. You have yet to address many criticisms. You are far more likely to respond to potential doubt of potential customers than to any sense of justice toward those you have wronged.




> first it was Oz now its najevin.


Sigh, guilt by association fallacy, that guy was a nutball, and all I remember is that he disagreed with you once.




> I'm over it;


.

You never weren't. Quite obviously to me you don't give a $#@! about anyone who loses money because of you.

I received donations to go to NH for operation live free or die in 2007, and I failed. I had poor judgment and was not as effective as I should have been. Everyone I've been able to get in touch with has said don't worry about it, or said they felt they got their money's worth anyway. I'm not over it. I dreamed of paying everyone back in their choice of gold, silver, BTC, ltc, or nmc plus interest. Here I saw opportunity to restore any confidence in independent grassroots projects I may have contributed to damaging, get some strapped folks who sacrificed for my opportunity some purchasing power, and relieve my own guilt. Dare I fantasize of profit? I was a sucker, and also got screwed. 




> I did this as a community service not for financial gain... I frankly don't need the $#@!. I do just fine trading on my own.


You failed. It's all right here in this thread, and you won't admit it, and you're blaming me. And trying to get me to shut up by only sacrificing half of the pure profit made by misleading me. Some community member.

*FEEL FREE TO REPOST THIS OPEN SOURCE COMMENTARY ANYWHERE YOU SEE LITEPRESENCE.

FOR MORE ABOUT FREE MARKET SOLUTIONS TO SCAMMERS, GO TO RONPAULFORUMS.COM

*


> You're not getting a refund from me. You're not getting $#@! from me. Done. I cut all ties.


*
Customer service at it's finest.  Buyer beware!*

----------


## presence

Still haven't seen a support request email in my inbox from you since the day I sent you script many moons back.

The only thing you've managed is long winded lone hissy fits in my market analysis thread.  

I'm done with you nayjevin.  You've pushed me over the edge.  

You're not getting a refund from me.   You're not getting $#@! from me.  Done.  I cut all ties.


Feel free to spread the message.  

*SUPER IGNORE - Greasemonkey Browser Extension! * 

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...efox-extension




> I wonder if I can ignore mods with this... might be useful.



lol perfect 


Goodbye nayjevin.   I've never ignored another user at rpf before.  Shame I had to start out with a mod.  My email address also now directs contact from you to the trash bin.  






Cheers!

----------


## nayjevin

> Still haven't seen a support request email in my inbox from you since the day I sent you script many moons back.


Why should it be in your inbox?  Why should I reach out to you?

----------


## amonasro

> I feel for the guy.   Real nice guy... he had no intentions of going 84 coins deep but slept in "buy support" walls... well news came out that NONE of us were expecting... the coin was $#@!ed... $#@! tanked and next thing you know homie was holding his bank in a falling rock.  
> 
> I've done everything I can to try to generate PR with the coin... tweeted the $#@! out of it... ads... assembled a pr team in IRC... assembled a bunch of twitterites... We even raised some money for devs that ultimately took the coin (WC) from the old dev and rebuilt it from the ground up including new wallets for windows and mac.
> 
> WC has gone from a scammer's coin to a bonafide "community" built coin... 
> 
> but lost of people got burnt and until the dust clears... my 9.7mil WC bag holding friend is going to have to hold through or dump and cry.    I'm really at a loss for what is best.   I consider my 700k WC investment a long hold / loss.  Is what it is... investing in small cap coins is high risk.  sometimes you lose 50% or more... but sometimes... when the timing is right... things go 10X 20X or 100X.
> 
> 
> ...


WC is having a difficult time shaking off its old image. Over on the btc forums there are still a lot of angry bagholders and those who tirelessly troll WC after they see the community has rallied behind it. I feel we've tapped a lot of the Blackcoin kids' anger and frustration so we must be onto something. I've played damage control but there is only so much I can do above the illiterate yelling sometimes.

At any rate, I'm holding long and you've still got a team who can do good things... before I left for the weekend I overheard a couple new wallet developments in the works... unfortunately we are not one person and have day jobs, etc, so these things take longer and investors want the moon yesterday. So yeah it's frustrating. Calming investors is like herding cats but half of the cats don't speak English and have the patience of a twelve year old, and the other half I'm fairly sure are actually twelve years old. 

The more we can push PR to major crypto news outlets and blogs, like Coindesk, the better.

----------


## muh_roads

LOL.  Good to have you back posting again pres.  Always livens up the Crypto boards here.

----------


## muh_roads

> I hear that.
> 
> 
> Mom wants me to invest $5000 on LTCUSD script for her.  I need to shift focus back to code.   
> 
> I feel pulled in so many directions... I've got too many irons in the fire.  Ready to put myself in a dark room and say $#@! it to WC foundation... $#@! it to my skype trading group... $#@! it to my myriadcoin investment... and just go back to bot dev full time.  I was doing really well there for a while and lost focus when I went out of town.  
> 
> 
> Tomorrow will be a focus on script day... there really is no reason I can't iron out the final pieces in a a day or two.     Just need to focus!


That's awesome you got your mom interested.  I can't get my father to get any.  He's like all the other people who are gonna miss the boat again and thinks we're headed to near zero without understanding what is going on.  Going to near zero is mathematically impossible.  There are more humans worldwide by orders of magnitude than the total current number of BTC mined who are interested in Crypto.

I don't blame you for losing focus.  Sounds like Alex is a $#@!wit on cryptotrader and Tradewave just keeps spinning in their heels.

----------


## nayjevin

Translation: When litepresence is holding the bag he works on PR.  Try to encourage investment in HIS coin interests.

Take a look:

http://whitecoin.co/

Whitecoin is a very bland miner's pump coin.  POS.  No distinguishing qualities listed.  Litepresence quotes Buffet's, don't buy something you wouldn't want years from now, then suggests, as a community service, that we invest in this coin that's value is completely based on people's ability to convince others to invest in it.

Pump and dump coin - Pres says hurry and jump on board.  BTC no good at $450?  NMC no good at $2?  LTC no good at $10?  Nope, here's your best opportunity - sez prez, Whitecoin.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> LOL listen to yourself.


Do you expect things to always go as planned?  I take advice from pres, but he doesn't guide my every trading decision.  

If you honestly thought a bull market was some kind of guarantee, then it's your fault you invested in it.  Nobody guaranteed you anything.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Why should it be in your inbox?  Why should I reach out to you?


Have you even tried before flinging accusations?  

I hate to say it, but if your plan is to expose someone, it's not effective because you don't come across as very legitimate yourself.

----------


## muh_roads

Paul...bitfinex...how's it going?

Looks like we had a weekend drop.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Paul...bitfinex...how's it going?
> 
> Looks like we had a weekend drop.


It's going quite well so far.  It's tempting to use the leverage to sell more, but I'm resisting on principle.  Nonetheless, I expect to make a pretty penny if it's going where I think it's going.  The fees are dirt cheap, too.

----------


## nayjevin

> Do you expect things to always go as planned?


No.  What led you to believe that I do?  Perhaps you are not reading my posts either.  It would seem to me that a reasonable person could see this quite easily.  Perhaps I have a blind spot and have not explained well?  Or perhaps you are a cheerleader who invests in primarily forum slide, non sequitur, ad hominem, timeshift ignore tactics.




> I take advice from pres, but he doesn't guide my every trading decision.


Your implication being that I looked for pres to guide my every trading decision?  I looked for pres' bot, which by definition guides all trading decisions for the resources it has access to, to guide all trading decisions for the amount of value I was willing to let it control.  After I puchased the CLOSED SOURCE bot, I found out that it was worthless for any investment smaller than, I believe it was, $500.





> If you honestly thought a bull market was some kind of guarantee, then it's your fault you invested in it.  Nobody guaranteed you anything.


If you honestly think eating babies is ok, then it's your fault.  But wait, you didn't say that eating babies is OK!  And I didn't say I thought a bull market was some kind of guarantee.

When a PR marketer makes claims about a coming market, such as his expectations, that's wrapped into the purchase decision.  I understood it was not to be assumed the bot would ever make money.  But a botsmith who glosses over a completely failed bot and completely failed analysis with no explanation to his customers is at best unworthy of market support.

By the way, if you actually read my posts, it seems to me quite clear that the portion of my complaint regarding his analysis is minor.  My complaint is FRAUD




> Have you even tried before flinging accusations?


'Flinging' would imply haphazard, trying to get something to stick, with little thought.  My accusations are fact based and well thought.  Your claim has no merit.




> I hate to say it, but if your plan is to expose someone, it's not effective because you don't come across as very legitimate yourself.


I hate to say it, but if your plan is to eat babies, oh wait, you didn't say that either?

What is legitimate to you?  Whitecoin, evidently, and Litepresence.  Need I say more?

*WHO IS LITEPRESENCE?*




> yeah so... nayjevin... I made it a few words into your response. 
> 
> /ignore


what!!!???!!!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5524491

This was Nayjevin's post:




> Last I recall I offered half his money back and he refused wanting all of it back. Sorry but nobody is getting full refund after getting open source code from me.


Then you haven't been reading my posts. I made my case for why half refund was insufficient. You didn't respond. Furthermore, LOL, your code is not open source. It is on cryptotrader, which keeps it closed source.

For whatever reason I don't understand, you voluntarily sent me some script in PM for a bull market that still hasn't occurred. I am unable to compare that code to the closed source bot I assume you are still selling at cryptotrader.

If it were open source, why would you sell it? You simply don't know how to program an encrypted, closed, self contained executable that you can sell independently of cryptotrader. If you could, you would. The extent to which your code is open is the extent you wish it wasn't. You, nor your code , resemble open source standards.




> My offer still stands for half.


You didn't even send me half of the product I paid for. And I used it twice, lost money both times. BTC still hasn't seen a market where it might be useful. You were misleading. You did not disclose necessary and proper basic information about the way it works. 

You did not disclose the fact that it is worthless to small time investors, as it is programmed to assume less than $500, I think it was, would want to go all in now, just to have some coin. Found that out when ltc was $20+ , I think. It's $10 now.

Your pitch took advantage of the gray area of back testing 'wow' factor to all but promise returns you later admitted you knew were not possible.

I'm bored, but that's not all.




> But ffs... homie needs to get past himself... send me an email and deal with it privately.


It's all about me? I'm not the self proclaimed expert that needs to allude to phallic superiority in my documentation. And I don't charge people for failed strategies and analysis without explanation, only to later call it a 'community service'.




> This continual bull$#@! about me being a scammer every time I read through this thread has totally turned me off to even sharing market insight anymore around here...


Continual: I gave you weeks to respond, after weeks of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and there still has been no market change in BTC it BTC/ltc to lead one to believe your analysis has merit. Looks to me like you let us help you unload ltc at last peak and are now pushing crapcoin as charitable ' community service'.

Bull$#@!: calling it doesn't make it so. You have yet to address many criticisms. You are far more likely to respond to potential doubt of potential customers than to any sense of justice toward those you have wronged.




> first it was Oz now its najevin.


Sigh, guilt by association fallacy, that guy was a nutball, and all I remember is that he disagreed with you once.




> I'm over it;


.

You never weren't. Quite obviously to me you don't give a $#@! about anyone who loses money because of you.

I received donations to go to NH for operation live free or die in 2007, and I failed. I had poor judgment and was not as effective as I should have been. Everyone I've been able to get in touch with has said don't worry about it, or said they felt they got their money's worth anyway. I'm not over it. I dreamed of paying everyone back in their choice of gold, silver, BTC, ltc, or nmc plus interest. Here I saw opportunity to restore any confidence in independent grassroots projects I may have contributed to damaging, get some strapped folks who sacrificed for my opportunity some purchasing power, and relieve my own guilt. Dare I fantasize of profit? I was a sucker, and also got screwed. 




> I did this as a community service not for financial gain... I frankly don't need the $#@!. I do just fine trading on my own.


You failed. It's all right here in this thread, and you won't admit it, and you're blaming me. And trying to get me to shut up by only sacrificing half of the pure profit made by misleading me. Some community member.

*FEEL FREE TO REPOST THIS OPEN SOURCE COMMENTARY ANYWHERE YOU SEE LITEPRESENCE.

FOR MORE ABOUT FREE MARKET SOLUTIONS TO SCAMMERS, GO TO RONPAULFORUMS.COM

*


> *You're not getting a refund from me. You're not getting $#@! from me. Done. I cut all ties.*


*
Customer service at it's finest. Buyer beware!*

----------


## nayjevin

> *You're not getting a refund from me. You're not getting $#@! from me. Done. I cut all ties.*


LITEPRESENCE earns about $800 profit from taking this stance

----------


## oldietech

*"Mr. Roboto"

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto,
Mata ah-oo hima de
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto,
Himitsu wo shiri tai

You're wondering who I am-machine or mannequin
With parts made in Japan, I am the modren man

I've got a secret I've been hiding under my skin
My heart is human, my blood is boiling, my brain I.B.M.
So if you see me acting strangely, don't be surprised
I'm just a man who needed someone, and somewhere to hide
To keep me alive-just keep me alive
Somewhere to hide to keep me alive

I'm not a robot without emotions-I'm not what you see
I've come to help you with your problems, so we can be free
I'm not a hero, I'm not a saviour, forget what you know
I'm just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control
Beyond my control-we all need control
I need control-we all need control

I am the modren man, who hides behind a mask
So no one else can see my true identity

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto, domo...domo
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto, domo...domo
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto, domo...domo
Thank you very much, Mr. Roboto
For doing the jobs that nobody wants to
And thank you very much, Mr. Roboto
For helping me escape just when I needed to
Thank you-thank you, thank you
I want to thank you, please, thank you

The problem's plain to see: too much technology
Machines to save our lives. Machines dehumanize.

The time has come at last
To throw away this mask
So everyone can see
My true identity...
I'm Kilroy! Kilroy! Kilroy! Kilroy!
*

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No.  What led you to believe that I do?  Perhaps you are not reading my posts either.  It would seem to me that a reasonable person could see this quite easily.  Perhaps I have a blind spot and have not explained well?  Or perhaps you are a cheerleader who invests in primarily forum slide, non sequitur, ad hominem, timeshift ignore tactics.
> 
> 
> 
> Your implication being that I looked for pres to guide my every trading decision?  I looked for pres' bot, which by definition guides all trading decisions for the resources it has access to, to guide all trading decisions for the amount of value I was willing to let it control.  After I puchased the CLOSED SOURCE bot, I found out that it was worthless for any investment smaller than, I believe it was, $500.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm going to try to respond to some of the things you said in reply to me.  When I said he doesn't guide my every trading decision, I was simply responding to you implying that I was in a hole because of pres.  I was in a hole because of my own decisions.

Also, what makes you think it was a failed bot if the market conditions in which it should be used haven't even arisen yet?  You bought the bot based on your belief that his analysis was right.  For that, you only have yourself to blame.  That's all I have to say about it.

----------


## nayjevin

> I'm going to try to respond to some of the things you said in reply to me.  When I said he doesn't guide my every trading decision, I was simply responding to you implying that I was in a hole because of pres.  I was in a hole because of my own decisions.


Ah, yes I see that and you're right.




> Also, what makes you think it was a failed bot if the market conditions in which it should be used haven't even arisen yet?  You bought the bot based on your belief that his analysis was right.  For that, you only have yourself to blame.  That's all I have to say about it.


Also a good point.  I made a bad and faulty statement.  My real point is that a read of this whole thread shows that litepresence has a consistent pattern of not explaining failures and bragging about successes.  The bot may not have failed, and I may not have used it properly, and some analysis of his has borne out in reality.

However, it is important to note that I do not believe I deserve a refund for the bot because I lost money!  I believe I deserve a refund for the bot because it was fraudulently marketed and I never even received half of what I paid for.  His failure to admit this makes me think he is unethical, and wholly unfit to occupy the position of authority he has crafted for himself.  There are also all the other things I've listed in this thread that he never addressed.

It would have been so simple for presence to come clean at any point and just give me back my money.  It is all these surrounding actions that led me to believe what I do, not that I lost money.

If he would have said, this bot doesn't work, and I'm sorry you lost 10 million dollars, or even $1, but I can't be responsible for that, I would agree completely.  He is not responsible for my losses.  He is responsible for my purchase price.  Because FRAUD and FAILURE TO DELIVER.

He wanted to give me half.  I didn't even receive half the product!  Total joke of a service he's providing.  Best case scenario hiring a dedicated marketer and accounts manager and sales department would allow him to make people money without being unethical to them.  I believe it may be worse than that, I believe it needs to be investigated whether his bots are designed with no intention to make others money in mind.

But, unfortunately, they are CLOSED SOURCE

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Ah, yes I see that and you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> Also a good point.  I made a bad and faulty statement.  My real point is that a read of this whole thread shows that litepresence has a consistent pattern of not explaining failures and bragging about successes.  The bot may not have failed, and I may not have used it properly, and some analysis of his has borne out in reality.
> 
> However, it is important to note that I do not believe I deserve a refund for the bot because I lost money!  I believe I deserve a refund for the bot because it was fraudulently marketed and I never even received half of what I paid for.  His failure to admit this makes me think he is unethical, and wholly unfit to occupy the position of authority he has crafted for himself.  There are also all the other things I've listed in this thread that he never addressed.
> 
> It would have been so simple for presence to come clean at any point and just give me back my money.  It is all these surrounding actions that led me to believe what I do, not that I lost money.
> ...


I guess I avoided this by not getting involved in bots.  The analysis is still good, and for that, I freely give away some of the money I earned.  As far as bots go, I don't know how effective they really are.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Just closed out my short position with a small profit.  I'm beginning to doubt whether we're going to break down.  That uptrend is pretty strong.

----------


## muh_roads

Still buying NMC & PPC in the $2 range myself...

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Rough day today...

Fried my hard drive.  Cooked.  Toast.  Nada.  Zero.  Smells like acid fried electronics = shot.  

Checked up on the hard drive brand/model online... "oh yeah btw... they blow up" ... something to do with faulty platters

NICE!!!


That's gonna set me back.  

I did manage to release a new script yesterday though:

*litepresence **SPANKED** 2h LTCUSD - Market Orders*


https://cryptotrader.org/strategies/zMyFNRggomNnvDX8A




Works in bull or bear markets... its over 500 lines of code and trades on Ichi cloud, SAR, RSI, AROON and a host of other indicators.  The same script works well in many markets.  I've released LTCUSD PPCUSD NMCUSD LTCBTC NMCBTC and XPMBTC versions.

At the moment it only trades on market orders.   An iceberg bidding version  is in the works but it was def set back by my toasted hard drive today.


I'm also going to release a BTCUSD version... but I want to spend some long hours tuning it to all the old mtgox data from 2011 etc.


To the best of my knowledge its the single most profitable "for rent" LTCUSD bot in the cryptotrader market place.   

*11/1/13 $10,000 start

4/30/14 $2.97 MILLION simulation complete!*

of course this is "simulation" an real results will vary with market conditions and the markets ability to absorb market orders etc.   But apples to apples... It blows away most of the other LTCUSD cryptotrader rental bots available.  



I also have been in contact with James Potter from tradewave.net and I gave him links to a host of "open source" free scripts I've developed for cryptotrader.  He'll be converting them over to python to help draw some people to tradewave...

WHICH IS FINALLY...

LIVE

----------


## muh_roads

Cool pres.

In-laws coming to town so the next 48 hours might be silent.  I'll buy this over the next day or two.  Have to renew the Pro account on my cryptotrader also.

Within the Foundation, a user named John Galt has his own bot for BTC/CNY on Huobi.  It is free from cryptotrader and their hangups.  I wonder what he is doing exactly?  It apparently works great for him.  Has 26 indicators I think he said...

----------


## muh_roads

> 


Did you exit WC?

----------


## nayjevin

> Rough day today...
> 
> Fried my hard drive.  Cooked.  Toast.  Nada.  Zero.  Smells like acid fried electronics = shot.


Need some donations?




> That's gonna set me back.


Poor thing.  The good news is you've got some extra time to work on some scripting that will help you ignore the people you've wronged, instead of processing the backlog of emails from people who need your help.




> Works in bull or bear markets... its over 500 lines of code and trades on Ichi cloud, SAR, RSI, AROON and a host of other indicators.  The same script works well in many markets.  I've released LTCUSD PPCUSD NMCUSD LTCBTC NMCBTC and XPMBTC versions.
> 
> At the moment it only trades on market orders.


Uh oh.




> I'm also going to release a BTCUSD version... but I want to spend some long hours tuning it to all the old mtgox data from 2011 etc.


Good!  I've been looking for a script that expects the future market to be JUST LIKE MT. GOX was. 




> To the best of my knowledge its the single most profitable "for rent" LTCUSD bot in the cryptotrader market place.


Translation:  backtests show that it would have been profitable if backtests were an indication of what would have actually happened.




> *11/1/13 $10,000 start
> 
> 4/30/14 $2.97 MILLION simulation complete!*


Tuning a bot to the past for maximum 'coulda been'




> of course this is "simulation" an real results will vary with market conditions and the markets ability to absorb market orders etc.   But apples to apples... It blows away most of the other LTCUSD cryptotrader rental bots available.


You've come such a long way since I began admonishing you for fraudulence!  Now you're adding disclaimers that don't explain to anyone who needs your bot what they will need to know.  That backtests don't mean $#@!.




> I also have been in contact with James Potter from tradewave.net


Wow!  Did you teach yourself how to go to tradewave.com and click the contact button?




> and I gave him links to a host of "open source" free scripts I've developed for cryptotrader.  He'll be converting them over to python to help draw some people to tradewave...


Are you saying that you know what open source means now?

----------


## muh_roads

He has you blocked with a Firefox greasemonkey script, nayjevin.  You might as well be talking to a wall.

----------


## nayjevin

> He has you blocked with a Firefox greasemonkey script, nayjevin.  You might as well be talking to a wall.


I'm aware.  If my intention were for only presence to see my words, I'd use email.  Now it's his choice whether to read them himself or not.

----------


## helmuth_hubener

Sometimes giving someone a refund is the best business decision, presence.  It doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong -- just like I told the guy at MediaBridge (see this thread).  Just give nayjevin the refund.  What is it, $100?  It's worth it, just to take the high ground, end the negative publicity, and most importantly show your commitment to treating your customers well.  

Even if they don't deserve it.  

_Especially_ if they don't deserve it.

----------


## nayjevin

> Sometimes giving someone a refund is the best business decision, presence.  It doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong -- just like I told the guy at MediaBridge (see this thread).  Just give nayjevin the refund.  What is it, $100?  It's worth it, just to take the high ground, end the negative publicity, and most importantly show your commitment to treating your customers well.  
> 
> Even if they don't deserve it.  
> 
> _Especially_ if they don't deserve it.


A straight refund would be .75 BTC.  Justice is more than that.  But presence only ever had a chance to profit on a very few sales here, and depending on the number of sockpuppets in this thread claiming to have purchased the bot, I might be his only sale.  It's way more profitable, and no risk to him, to just keep the coin and hope he can make another sale or two.

----------


## amonasro

> A straight refund would be .75 BTC.  Justice is more than that.  But presence only ever had a chance to profit on a very few sales here, and depending on the number of sockpuppets in this thread claiming to have purchased the bot, I might be his only sale.  It's way more profitable, and no risk to him, to just keep the coin and hope he can make another sale or two.


With all the work he is putting into with his bots and Whitecoin he doesn't have time to be a customer service machine, but he is a very cool guy if you approach him *with respect*. If you still have a copy of the bot, my advice is to make amends and use it along with everyone else here to make money when the market turns around. 

That reminds me I actually need to get a copy of the bot at some point 

Pres, just an update, our work with Whitecoin hasn't been in vain: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...681#msg6710681

----------


## nayjevin

> With all the work he is putting into with his bots and Whitecoin he doesn't have time to be a customer service machine, but he is a very cool guy if you approach him *with respect*. If you still have a copy of the bot, my advice is to make amends and use it along with everyone else here to make money when the market turns around. 
> 
> That reminds me I actually need to get a copy of the bot at some point 
> 
> Pres, just an update, our work with Whitecoin hasn't been in vain: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...681#msg6710681


I did approach him with respect.  Get the facts, read the thread.

There is no reason to believe you are not presence or someone with financial interest in seeing presence succeed.  Especially if his bots are programmed to allow him to take advantage of people using them.

It is absurd to sell a product, do a customer wrong, and then act like there's no responsibility for customer service.  The market will bear this out.  The market is bearing this out.  Presence treated me wrong, and here we are.

I have no incentive to make amends.  Presence has ensured that by 'cutting all ties' and ignoring me.  His behavior is juvenile and reprehensible.  I have received no indication my behavior should change, your post is no indication.

I'm a reasonable guy, at least the people around me tell me so.  Presumably that's why I'm trusted as moderator here.  I have asked people I trust to look into Presence, and I have thus far received only word that he is a person who is not trusted.  No real life human being that I have found says presence is anything other than untrustworthy.

I'm open to facts that I'm wrong.  No one is offering any.

I would cease and delete all my posts if there was ample evidence that Presence is not a scammer.  I have seen none, and I have evidence he is.

Even if Presence is legit as a botsmith, he is untrustworthy to do business with, as can be seen by the way he did not refund my money and behaved in the meantime.

From my perspective, the overwhelming evidence is that he is not legit as a botsmith.  He does not seem to know what open source means.  He does not seem to understand austrian economics.  He does not seem to want to relinquish control of his own narcissistic faith in his analysis (best case scenario) to give his users choice.  I do not believe in his philosophy of trading.  Further, it has contradicted itself throughout this thread.  He appears to be just learning how to do this now, and is schizophrenically and twitchingly stumbling through the process, with the inherent problems of doing so falling on his customers.

He cannot possibly be testing these bots adequately in real market conditions.  He releases them one after the other and brags about backtesting.  He is waiting to see whether they work along with his customers.  His bots are useless to me.

I have a bot, and I'm testing it.  When I find that it works, I'll give it to anyone, but I don't recommend it.  Because that would be irresponsible.  No way will I try to start a business selling it, because I won't be responsible, legally, or morally, for the inevitable.  You can do great work and fail everyone in this business.  The only way is free and open source, with maximum choice for the individual.

Presence' way is closed source, maximum reliance on his opinion of the best indicators and future market conditions.  And he is piling dozens of indicators into his bots?  That's a government solution if I've ever seen one.

I repeat.  *NO HUMAN BEING WITH A REAL NAME THAT I CAN FIND CAN VOUCH FOR PRESENCE.  ME AND ONE OTHER HUMAN BEING I TRUST DON'T TRUST HIM.*  That and my experience is all I have.  Nothing has changed.

----------


## presence

*Master Index: List of all my indicators* 
 LazyBear   				2 days ago  				about  				 Bitcoin / Dollar 						 							(BTCE:BTCUSD)


https://www.tradingview.com/v/4IneGo8h/

----------


## presence

*Bollinger Bands and Parabolic SAR added to bitcoinwisdom today!*

----------


## presence

> * I would cease and delete all my posts* if there was ample evidence that Presence is not a scammer.
> 
> []
> A straight refund would be *.75 BTC*.


post a BTC address

Agree that when you recieve the funds you will kindly delete  your content from this thread and not ever post in my crypto currency related threads again.




> Sometimes giving someone a refund is the best business decision, presence. 
> 
> []
> *
> Especially* if they don't deserve it.



*03-13-2014 06:39 PM 

^^ date and time I gave Nayjevin the Dragon Slayer A open source coffeescript that he claimed he never got.  

The link I sent still works to this day.
**
*

----------


## presence

> Did you exit WC?


Im holding about 200k of the 700k I originally bought and I've traded the down to reduce my average buy from 1250 to 600 sat.  

I'm holding mostly BTC USD and MYR.  I'm no longer as bearish re: BTC... headline news will soon break the consolidation... undecided which way the 12h chart will swing.  Hedged.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/a...rackdown-china

*Li Ka-shing boosts bitcoin investments amid currency crackdown in China*





> Asias  richest man Li Ka-shing has boosted his investment in bitcoin, in a  vote of confidence for the beleaguered digital currency, amid a  crackdown on its widespread popularity in China.
>  Despite the price of a bitcoin tumbling from political pressure, the  billionaire tycoon has poured an undisclosed amount of money, believed  to be worth millions of dollars, into Bitpay, the bitcoin equivalent to  PayPal, through his venture capital investment company Horizons  Ventures.
>  Bitpay has raised US$30 million (HK$233 million) in Series A funding  (convertible into common shares when an IPO is launched) from eight  investors including Lis money-spinning vehicle, Horizons. Fellow  investors include Virgins Richard Branson, and top technology men  including billionaires, the founder of Yahoo, Jerry Yang, and PayPal  founder Peter Thiel.
> Li Ka-shing has boosted his investment in bitcoin. Photo: Edward WongBuoyed  by the investment, set to be the single largest fundraiser by a bitcoin  company, BitPay co-founder Tony Gallippi said in a statement: Bitcoin  is a borderless and frictionless payment system, which is nearing a  tipping-point moment in terms of merchant adoption.
>  Gallippi, also the companys executive chairman, added: Unlike  existing payment technologies such as credit cards, with their high fees  and risk of fraud and chargebacks, Bitcoin was designed for the  internet age (sic), offering companies a lower-cost, lower-risk  alternative.
>  A spokeswoman for Horizons Ventures said: We do not comment on any deals or rumours.
>  John Greenwood, the architect of Hong Kongs pegged currency regime, told the _South China Morning Post_ in December, said investors should follow Lis move to buy into firms providing the services that bitcoin holders use.
>  Horizons has a long and successful track record of investing in  technology start-ups that turned into global brands with Li, currently  worth US$32 billion according to Bloomberg Billionaires index, among the  investors. Some of Horizons investment successes are social network  behemoth Facebook and voice-over-IP service provider Skype, now owned by  Microsoft.
>  Index Ventures Partner Jan Hammer, another of the investors alongside  Horizon, added: We see BitPay playing a key role in the future of  electronic payments and paving the path for digital currency bitcoin.
> ...



*Billionaire Richard Branson invests in Atlanta bitcoin startup BitPay*


> British billionaire Sir. Richard Branson is hot on Atlanta bitcoin startup BitPay.
>  Branson, founder of the Virgin Group, is part of a group of investors who recently plowed $30 million in BitPay. 
>  The startup, which plans to add about 70 jobs, develops software  tools that allow online merchants to collect payments over the bitcoin  peer-to-peer payment network. On April 8, Atlanta Business Chronicle reported on Bitpays plans to raise the funding round.
>  The $30 million round was led Index Ventures, with participation from  Founders Fund, Felicis Ventures, RRE Ventures and AME Cloud Ventures.  Atlanta-based venture firm TTV Capital, which focuses on the fintech  space, also invested in the round. 
>  And, BitPay has drawn the backing of another high-roller, Hong Kong billionaire Sir. Li Ka-shing.  Late last year, Horizon Ventures, which manages the private investment  of Ka-shing in the technology, media and telecommunications sector, was  part of a group that invested $2.7 million in BitPay.

----------


## nayjevin

> post a BTC address
> 
> Agree that when you recieve the funds you will kindly delete  your content from this thread and not ever post in my crypto currency related threads again.


1FVxkk48JsmGgcRD39fWeY3quuUda7KnFM

----------


## nayjevin

> 


In case anyone wonders, no, that's not true.   I don't like nor need a nemesis and this is the least appealing exchange I've ever had on this forum.  It's not a joke to me.

----------


## muh_roads

And wall street gets to legally get away with this same kinda stuff...lol

http://pastebin.com/Xm6eW2Pf




> The Book of Wolong
> 
> 
> Majority believes that markets move randomly and reflect the collective
> wisdom of investors, the truth is quite the opposite. The invisible hand is a
> myth. Market prices has always been manipulated by the government's
> visible hands through influencing laws and regulation. Insiders control markets
> and manipulate them up or down for profit. Manipulation is everywhere,
> undeniable and unavoidable. It happens on a very large scale throughout
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

nayjevin,

I recently paid 2 BTC to be part of a group that pres recommended and I'm personally not finding it very useful.  The group leader is under no pressure to refund me.  He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. Maybe if I'm nice to him he will...who knows?  If I don't get the coin back then it is my own fault and I have nobody to blame but myself.

I've been involved with the Ron Paul thing since early 2007.  The one thing I've seen everyone want is self-reliance and to be regulated by nobody.  Cryptocurrency now gives people a chance to make those decisions for themselves.  Nobody is obliged to do jack $#@! for you.  Those that work together in an unregulated free market, who aren't dicks to each other, will be the ones who get ahead in the end.

----------


## nayjevin

> Those that work together in an unregulated free market, who aren't dicks to each other, will be the ones who get ahead in the end.


True.  We shall see if the spankmeister continues to profit.

----------


## muh_roads

> True.  We shall see if the spankmeister continues to profit.


Also for those that don't immediately try to burn bridges.

----------


## nayjevin

> Also for those that don't immediately try to burn bridges.


Are you referring to me?  There is no bridge.  Nothing has changed.  I have received no refund, ostracism continues.  Litepresence remains a total joke.  Now it seems he just wanted a little more time acting like it was my fault for not 'reaching out' and posting my BTC address.  I posted it, and he's evidently the same guy he always was.

----------


## muh_roads

> Are you referring to me?  There is no bridge.  Nothing has changed.  I have received no refund, ostracism continues.  Litepresence remains a total joke.  Now it seems he just wanted a little more time acting like it was my fault for not 'reaching out' and posting my BTC address.  I posted it, and he's evidently the same guy he always was.


You jumped the shark almost immediately many pages ago dude.

----------


## amonasro

Ah, the elusive RJR indicator. 

Finally, some TA I think we can *all* get behind:

----------


## presence

> 1FVxkk48JsmGgcRD39fWeY3quuUda7KnFM
> []
> ostracism continues. Litepresence remains a total joke.


_With all due respect..._

I'm in the alt market atm... my next trade you get paid.  I trade regularly.

----------


## nayjevin

> _With all due respect..._
> 
> I'm in the alt market atm... my next trade you get paid.  I trade regularly.


That would be a great sign and I shall cease 48 hours.  Thank you.

----------


## presence

PaulWVConvention Amonasro and Paladin69

FREE COPY of **SPANK** w/ Market Orders in your rep folder.  Thanks for the support.  Please don't share my script.  Let me know what you think!

----------


## presence

http://bitcoingirl.wordpress.com/201...-for-everyone/



> Hi everyone!
> Today I’m back talking about Altcoins…wow the altcoin market is just so hot right now. The ups and downs are crazy. So many wild swings from day to day…it’s just so exciting isn’t it? Some would argue that such volatility is bad for the industry as a whole, and I would agree, however, it does make for some good entertainment. As Russell Crowe in Gladiator would say
> 
> Today’s Altcoin focus is not on a coin that has seen wild swings, however. *No, actually, Myriadcoin has been pretty solid in value since its inception:*
> Myriadcoin on Mintpal…pretty steady
> Ok, so the value has been steady, but what makes this coin any different from all the various “scamcoins” (ahem, Asiacoin) “clone coins” (ahem, Whitecoin) and “$#@!coins” out there? What is its competitive advantage? In this post, I will outline why I think that Myriadcoin is a “contender” for global adoption and widespread use in the real world, instead of just as a tool for pump and dump speculation (the fate of most altcoins).
> Disclaimer: I do hold Myriadcoin, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Also, none of this should be taken as “investment advice”. Make your own decisions.
> Myriadcoin has 5 different types of hashing algorithms that each make up roughly 20% of the total hashing power required to mine new coins, with each algorithm having its own difficulty. They are: Scrypt, SHA256D, Qubit, Skein or Groestl. _What is innovative about Myriadcoin is that each algorithm has roughly the same chance as all the others to mine new coins._
> 
> ...





http://www.coinssource.com/myriadcoi...unity-members/

Myriadcoin receives positive comments from major community members




> May 15, 2014//in Alt-Coin World Headlines, Mining News by George Krasadakis
> 
> 
> *The beginning*
> 
> Some months ago, during late February 2014, something brand new came into existance in the altcoin ecosystem. Myriadcoin is a new alternative cryptocurrency based on bitcoin. What makes it special though is it’s unique feature that allows it to be mined through solving several cryptography algorithms at the same time with each algorithm having it’s own independent difficulty.
> *Gaining popularity*
> 
> At first glance, it didn’t look like something more that just a casual announcement thread on BitcoinTalk’s announcement board. One could even say that the coin didn’t even get the deserved amount of attention for the first couple of months or so. But such an innovative technology wouldn’t remain _ignored_ for a long time. If Bitcoin has taught us one thing this would be that technology and innovation are worth of investing in. Sooner or later investors along with cryptocurrency enthusiasts started showing their interest in the coin.
> ...

----------


## presence

https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools



Someone in the Myriadcoin forum noted how close one of the LTC pools is to *51%*

Bad news for LTC???

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
> 
> 
> 
> Someone in the Myriadcoin forum noted how close one of the LTC pools is to 51%
> 
> Bad news for LTC???


We'll see if it self-corrects like BTC did when it was that close.

----------


## amonasro

> PaulWVConvention Amonasro and Paladin69
> 
> FREE COPY of **SPANK** w/ Market Orders in your rep folder.  Thanks for the support.  Please don't share my script.  Let me know what you think!


Dude. Very kind. I'm going to look over the code and get this spanking tomorrow.

Err... that came out wrong, but you know what I mean 

I'll keep you guys updated.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I, too, appreciate the gesture, pres.  That boosts my image of you quite a bit.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Huobi 2800 breached!  That means it's on, right?

----------


## presence

> Huobi 2800 breached!  That means it's on, right?






1d bullish, no wiggle room SAR cross?   I'm holdin'

We do have one fat whale at stamp that has yet to let off on the down pressure... apparently he's not 100% bought in yet:

----------


## presence

http://www.coingecko.com/




> *Coingecko*
> 
> Confused Over a Coin's Prospect? Don't Be.
> CoinGecko collects thousands of data points and uses these data to quantitatively rank the *world's top cryptocurrencies*based on key aspects such as Developer Activity, Community and Liquidity. We are still in Beta and have plans to include dozens more metrics in the coming weeks. View Methodology




http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency




> *Coinwarz*
> 
> The following list of crypto currencies are being compared to Bitcoin to determine if a given crypto currency is more profitable to mine than Bitcoin based on the hash rate information provided.
> The current profitability information displayed is based on a statistical calculation using the values entered and does not account for difficulty and exchange rate fluctuations, stale/reject/orphan rates, a pool's efficiency, and pool fees. Your individual profitability may vary.



http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/




> *Cryptocoincharts.info*
> 
> Charts for all cryptocurrencies, long term with orderbook. There are many *alternative cryptocurrencies to bitcoin* out there for trading. Some of them are good, some of them are bad (scumcoins). Most of them had a short life. With the charts on this website you are able to see how *the prices of the altcoins were going up or down*. The volume of each coin shows how big the market is to check if its worth to invest it in.



https://coinmarketcap.com/volume.html




> *24 Hour Volume Rankings
> 
> *283 Currencies / 616 Markets


http://www.coinchoose.com/




> *CoinChoose
> *
> Compare the popular crypto currencies mining profitability to Bitcoin and Litecoin and choose the most profitable coin to mine. The data is retrieved from several exchanges and displayed in a table that updates every 60 seconds.


http://www.coinssource.com/top-coins/



> *CoinSource*
> 
> The following is the strict guide-line on how to score or rank a crypto-currency on Coins Source. Coins Source’s state of the art grading scale for alternative coins will be based on a graphical star rating system, with a possible of 5/5 stars for the highest form of achievements. There will be a featured 4 category system as follows: Community Support, Exchange Presence, Technical advancements and an Coins Source’s rank category featuring all of the categories above, averages and incorporated with the reviewer’s information about the coin.

----------


## presence

> Circle has posted a promotion, offering 
> 
> *
> $10 worth of Bitcoins* to every new customer for free.




http://cointelegraph.com/news/111463...rrency_banking





> “You shouldn't have to pay extra to use your own money. We don't charge fees when you convert funds to or from Bitcoin, when you store your Bitcoin, or for Bitcoin transactions,” reads the Circle’s website.
> *How it works*
> *Unlike the myriad of currency exchanges out there that are mainly used for trading and speculation, Circle’s platform is instead focused on promoting Bitcoin as a secure store of value and what Bitcoin is actually intended for – everyday transactions i.e. depositing, withdrawing and converting Bitcoin, for which users can set up a free account. * 
> *Circle CEO, Jeremy Allaire, explains:*
> *"Our goal is to make it easy for consumers to deposit and convert currency into a digital form that they can then use globally and instantly, not offer a trading exchange where they can bet on a speculative asset."*

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> That would be a great sign and I shall cease 48 hours.  Thank you.






... with apologies to my MYR pumping friend for dumping 0.75 BTC in your face... may the pump continue now!

----------


## presence

> Hi mate,
> 
> We want to inform you that we have added Whitecoin to our coin ranking list at www.coingecko.com. 
> Go check it out and help us spread the word! 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Bobby


I got WC added to coingecko

----------


## muh_roads

> PaulWVConvention Amonasro and Paladin69
> 
> FREE COPY of **SPANK** w/ Market Orders in your rep folder.  Thanks for the support.  Please don't share my script.  Let me know what you think!


Cool.  Thanks man.  

Running it now.  Really flat and steady atm.

----------


## nayjevin

I did receive a full refund of .75, in fact he sent a bit more than that, so that the transaction fee did not fall on me, but on him.  I ended up with exactly .75.  This is very good.  However, it appears that this was a bottom line business decision, and that there has been no change in Presence' mind as to having done me wrong.  I will let others determine whether my analysis of the degree with which this sheds light upon his character is sound.  If I am right, the fact that he does not see he has done me wrong as a customer is enough to not want to do business with him.  



Notice the highlighting of the word 'Especially'.

My intention for continuing to post what I know about Presence in this thread was never to get my money back.  That is why I did not agree to Presence' terms for a refund.  He wronged me, fraudulently marketed, and failed to deliver, and I should not have to agree to any terms to get a refund.  There would be no agreeing to terms on my part from a scrupulous business.

So, it was somewhat of a lie of omission on my part, in my self defense, to recoup losses from a fraudulent person.  Sigh.  I don't like lies of any kind.

Now I will not delete my posts.  I will also not actively pursue Presence' failure in the market further, pending further evidence he is actively harming the market and individuals in it.  I do however believe my responsibility as a consumer in the unregulated market of cryptocurrency to make the public aware of my experience.  If Presence is able to make people money far more than he burns them, my posts will become irrelevant.

I am aware that this thread turns up #1 in google search results for 'litepresence.'  If it can be shown that Presence is legit I will do far more than delete my posts - I will help to promote his services free of charge to help restore good faith in him that I may have caused.

As I have always maintained - it was never about my money.  It's about my responsibility to the market to share experience.  My experience has thus far shown that Presence is the same guy as always, and all of my complaints still stand.  Even the refund appears to be motivated by profit, rather than justice.  If presence finds it profitable, he can convince me otherwise, and I will be reasonable.  I hope I'm wrong.  Others can also convince me, just by being real people with expertise who vouch for him.

Presence, if you are legit, and I am wrong, I WILL kick ass for you to make your money back.  My responsibility to the market goes both ways.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I did receive a full refund of .75, in fact he sent a bit more than that, so that the transaction fee did not fall on me, but on him.  I ended up with exactly .75.  This is very good.  However, it appears that this was a bottom line business decision, and that there has been no change in Presence' mind as to having done me wrong.  I will let others determine whether my analysis of the degree with which this sheds light upon his character is sound.  If I am right, the fact that he does not see he has done me wrong as a customer is enough to not want to do business with him.  
> 
> 
> 
> Notice the highlighting of the word 'Especially'.
> 
> My intention for continuing to post what I know about Presence in this thread was never to get my money back.  That is why I did not agree to Presence' terms for a refund.  He wronged me, fraudulently marketed, and failed to deliver, and I should not have to agree to any terms to get a refund.  There would be no agreeing to terms on my part from a scrupulous business.
> 
> So, it was somewhat of a lie of omission on my part, in my self defense, to recoup losses from a fraudulent person.  Sigh.  I don't like lies of any kind.
> ...


Until then, why not just take the middle road and go away?

----------


## nayjevin

> Until then, why not just take the middle road and go away?


What do you mean by go away?  Like, not respond to you?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What do you mean by go away?  Like, not respond to you?


Like, not be here... just a suggestion.

----------


## muh_roads

Hey pres, is spank compatible with BTC, PPC, NMC as well?

----------


## presence

*

$39 limited time offer: **ICY SPANK BETA***


*litepresence*_
https://cryptotrader.org/strategies/qt49PpxzaK6J5jr7M

$39 / month

$39 limited time offer: ICY SPANK BETA

v1.0

The Iceberg attribute, provides a way to submit large volume orders to the market in increments while publicly displaying only a small portion of the total order size.

The long awaited ICEBERG EDITION of SPANK BOT is here!

This is the same script as my $100/month $2.9 million LTCUSD SPANK bot...
except...

it only places 250 to 350 LTC on the books at any one time.
Orders are on the books anywhere from 25 to 35 seconds.
Each order is placed using LIVE ticker data.
2013-11-01 20:00 Simulation started. Balance: 10000.00 USD
2014-04-30 18:00 Simulation completed. Balance: 2,535,321.22 USD

*SPANK*

If you're a really fat whale and you'd like to place multiple concurrent iceberg orders on the books, you must use multiple ct.org bots:
Multiple concurrent bots can be run on the same account to place multiple orders. I would suggest using the same offset.
Multiple concurrent bots can also be placed in different accounts; this would be ideal as you would be able to use different offsets effectively. Be warned not to create more than 3 BTCe accounts as you may get your accounts locked if entering more than 3 accounts from one IP.

This is a limited time offer. ICY SPANK BETA is my first cryptotrader bot with iceberg order technology and my first script utilizing live ticker data. I will delete this offering in 30 days or after the first 7 users sign up. If all goes as expected, the monthly fee will be $150 for this script. Beta buyers will get a full 30 days per cryptotrader terms regardless of when they sign up.

Look for version updates!
(...and upcoming revisions to my Dragon Slayer script)

Please contact me at:
rpfpresence@gmail.com
I'm interested in pastebins of live trading logs.
Crypto Long, More Coinz Short!
litepresence
pending approval


__

_

----------


## presence

> Hey pres, is spank compatible with BTC, PPC, NMC as well?





> *litepresence* 20 days ago
> This is the LTCUSD 2.4m version of spank unchanged running in BTCUSD markets:
> 
> 
> BTCe BTCUSD November Bubble 291% ROI BTC
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/jKhrAXbhuKcaLECC8
> BTCe BTCUSD April Bubble 448% ROI BTC
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/2iDWsEHMQTNQMLuHu
> Gox August 2012 38% ROI BTC
> ...


and yes... I have versions of the SAME SCRIPT available in the strategy market for:



LTCUSD
PPCUSD
NMCUSD
LTCBTC
NMCBTC
XPMBTC

see:
https://cryptotrader.org/strategies


I have yet to release a BTCUSD Version for rent and will be doing more tuning to deal with the smoother swings of the big boy of crypto.  That said... as you can see from the backtests... it is profitable as is in the BTCUSD market.


By far, ICY SPANK is a game changer...

It works in any market, with any pair, it trades on live ticker data, and it places iceberg orders to conceal portfolio size.  

...on my to do list:

refine BTCUSD version for BTCe and Stamp markets
revise Dragon Slayer A to include live ticker data

----------


## zeMan

Liberty Coin XLB at Mintpal... I think this one could go big, 20k +

Pres, Awesome job with SPANK! The Iceberg order is what we needed!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I find it odd that nobody has posted any BTC ideas on Tradingview lately.  Are we still expecting a breakout?

----------


## zeMan

DRM is a great prospect too.

----------


## presence

> I find it odd that nobody has posted any BTC ideas on Tradingview lately.  Are we still expecting a breakout?




Breakout... doubtless.   

Up or down?  That gets shakier with each passing hour.   

We are at the "market top"  and the "market bottom" ...the tip of consolidation on a very long scale... 


The next 24 - 48 hours is a "trigger fingers" period for sure in BTC.

----------


## presence

I'd suggest topsy, reddit, and btce trollbox as your best source of "outbreak news".   Whales will capitalize on big news to push price.  We're balanced on the tip of a needle.

----------


## presence

News of the day:

*CIRCLE to be the BANK of Bitcoin
EBAY actively considering Paypal / Bitcoin integration
COINBASE to become Mastercard of Bitcoin
Board Members resign from corrupt Bitcoin Foundation*

...bodes like Bitcoin going Mainstream
*




TECH*

*|*

*5/16/2014 @ 5:31PM |9,682 views*




> *The Secret To Bitcoin's Success Might Be Not Telling People They're Using Bitcoin*


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirh...using-bitcoin/




> (Reuters) - A task force of U.S. state regulators is working on the first bitcoin rule-book, the head of the group said, hoping to protect users of virtual currency from fraud without smothering the fledgling technology.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A4G08P20140517





> "The track record of prominent Bitcoin Foundation members has been abysmal," said Patrick Alexander, a resigning Foundation member in a post on its discussion pages. "I no longer want to be associated with these people."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A4F02B20140516


*Angling to Be the MasterCard of Bitcoin*




> Wall Street Journal-May 16, 2014
> Angling to Be the MasterCard of _Bitcoin_. The 31-year-old CEO of Coinbase on his plan to become the world payment processor


http://www.ibtimes.com/bitcoin-may-b...rouble-1585068



> The online marketplace giant is “actively considering” integrating bitcoin into PayPal, its payment processing company, eBay CEO John Donahoe said in a Q&A session with shareholders on Tuesday.






> Bitcoin merchant payment processor BitPay has announced a new partnership with electronics manufacturer Toshiba that will integrate bitcoin payments into Toshiba’s touch-screen point-of-sale platform, VisualTouch.
> BitPay will provide technical assistance for the purpose of integrating bitcoin payments into the existing VisualTouch system. VisualTouch is used by more than 6,000 client-companies in the hospitality, restaurant, grocery and retail sectors worldwide.


http://www.coindesk.com/bitpay-toshi...000-merchants/

*BULLISH


**Dutch Payment Service Mollie Takes Bitcoin to 10,000+ Merchants*May 15, 2014 at 16:59 | Nermin Hajdarbegovic
The company is one of the leading payments service providers in the Benelux region – and now it accepts bitcoin.

*CNET Founder Launches Low-Cost Bitcoin Payments Platform*May 15, 2014 at 15:49 | Stan Higgins
Halsey Minor's new company will specialize in low-cost transactions for merchants and consumers in bitcoin and fiat currencies.

----------


## presence

> Olivier Janssens, an early adopter of Bitcoin has created a $100,000bounty for software that will replace the need for the Bitcoin Foundation. The bounty of about 250 Bitcoins will be given to the developer that develops the best software for the goals of Janssens. Janssens views the Bitcoin Foundation as the exact thing that Bitcoin was created to avoid. Despite Bitcoin being a transparent network of transactions, the Bitcoin Foundation is not transparent in their actions, nor do they always ask the opinions of the community before implementing new updates or technology. Janssens seeks to have a platform created that will make all developments democratic and controlled by users of the Bitcoin community.CCNThe following is his description of the bounty:
> _Hi Everyone,_
> _My name is Olivier Janssens, early adopter and Bitcoin millionaire. The Bitcoin foundation has had its role in the last 2 years. Unfortunately, it is internally recreating the same archaic political system that fails to work for society. Bitcoin is the currency of the internet generation. It puts the power back into the hands of the people. You cannot expect its main representative organisation to be exactly the opposite: A non-transparent, political and secretive elite. We have been trying to push the BF for transparency and clear communication for years, without result. Meanwhile they started creating even more political structures inside, such as committees, which can only be accessed by knowing the right people. At the bitcoin 2014 conference, organised by this same organisation, I expected to see full internet participation + live streaming of their events. Especially of the BF member meeting, where they are supposed to get input from their members and disclose what they have been up to. Instead, the board decided that the event is not to be recorded or broadcasted. We have also no idea or say on how our money is spent. Half of their board gets elected by industry members (a group of about 100 companies), and recently lead to another extremely controversial election of Brock Pierce, which has a history of being connected to cases involving fraud and pedophilia. This needs to stop._
> _We as an internet community, don’t need public figures to decide what’s good for us. We need to stop politicking and start focussing on the projects directly. For example, we need a project to fund the core development of bitcoin, and put our money straight to that. We need a project to have lobbyists in Washington, to fight the anti-bitcoin lobbyists from Mastercard, and to prevent the government from destroying the currency. Basically, we don’t need another intermediary. We can do this ourselves. Therefore, I want to announce today that I am organizing a contest and giving $100k USD in BTC, to the group that can come up with the best platform to make this happen. I am thinking of a system where prominent people can voice their opinion, where people can propose projects, and where the core devs can actively show their roadmap with detailed features + costs, and where we can vote on the features being implemented by sending bitcoins towards the feature of our choice. This will allow the core dev team to expand by being able to add/pay more devs for feature requests which are fully funded. Maybe we can even evolve to a system later where anyone can work on a feature, which, when programmed properly (approved by the core team), will receive the bounty. The same applies to lobbyists, we just send bitcoins towards the one that we consider the most competent for the job. This will allow Bitcoin to grow and expand at a rate it deserves, a rate that a political organisation such as the foundation can never accomplish._
> _Let’s liberate bitcoin._
> _Olivier_


http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/...ion/2014/05/17

----------


## presence

> The Chinese government is limiting access to popular bitcoin websites such as Blockchain.Info, BTC-E and Coinbase. Bobby Lee, CEO of BTCChina told Coindesk that the blocking of the websites seems to be selective, affecting different parts of China at different times, for different durations. He added that the Chinese government may be mounting an effort to destabilize the sites and thus give the appearance that they are unreliable.  These actions are not unprecedented, the Chinese authorities have previously taken steps to block users from accessing major foreign websites such as Google.


*Bitcoin: Are Chinese Authorities Mounting a Silent Attack?*


http://www.forexnews.com/blog/2014/0...silent-attack/


*BEARISH


**Bitcoin Stuck at $440, Bobby Lee Confirms China’s Hostile Stance*

By Fx_Livermore on May 18, 2014 04:34:25 GMT






> Bitcoin prices have been stuck in a tiny range of only 3$ during the last 24 hours. The highest high currently stands at $440.94 and the lowest low at $437.94. BTC/USD has been trading in a range for the last month, the advances were generally halted near the $450 figure while the downmoves stopped around $410-$420. With the range becoming ever smaller, a breakout move either way seems likely. Here is the chart for the last 2 days on BTC-E.
> 
> Yesterday we reported on the increasingly hostile stance taken by the Chinese authorities regarding bitcoin. At the Bitcoin2014 Conference in Amsterdam, Bobby Lee CEO of BTCChina, confirmed some of the rumors we’ve been reporting on. Lee told the crowd that while there have been no written orders from the PBOC, *all major Chinese banks have stopped dealing with bitcoin exchanges.* This had a very chilling effect,  people are spooked, Bobby Lee said.
> _The state controlled media has also switched sides on bitcoin and now reports only negative stories._ The laws in China are purposely ambiguous, enabling the government to change the rules whenever it pleases Lee said. The CEO of BTCChina may have had enough, he later told Coindesk that he is thinking about moving his business overseas.



http://www.forexnews.com/blog/2014/0...ostile-stance/

----------


## presence

> *Bitcoin’s Rally Cry on China’s War on Bitcoin. We are coming.*
> 
> by RICH SAUNDERS on MAY 15, 20140
> 
> To our Chinese Friends, Countryman, and Government – lend me your ears. The Chinese government has now ordered their press to censor news of bitcoin and our *Global Bitcoin Summit. It’s already too late. We are bitcoin and we’re already there.
> *
> People are using our currency quietly…carefully today. Does your government think their citizens don’t know what the press is forbidden to report? Do they not hear your whispers behind closed doors? Your kingdom may be crumbling from corruption from the inside, yet the lies among their ranks has become circular and corruption is the fruit of their betrayal.  They ignore the lessons of history and are confused by the reasons of why no one speaks.
> How childish to think their currency will be trusted to become the reserved currency of the world they so desperately desire. They are fools to believe they deserve that valuable respect. Do they believe they’ve fooled the world of  the value of the Chinese yuan when their own people desperately try to escape it? The laws they’ve implemented to keep your money from leaving the country has done nothing but  allowed even more corruption.  They know of this, yet can’t contain it.  Much of your population still live in poverty with little faith in the future while the privileged leaders maintain expensive mistresses with expensive taste and eventually blackmail your leaders to save face using your money.
> 
> ...


http://bitcoinmagazine.com/13109/bit...itcoin-coming/

----------


## muh_roads

pres, is icy less effective the more ppl there are that use it?  I planned on tipping u probably a lot more than 100 $150 users combined if this thing really works that well.

----------


## presence

> pres, is icy less effective the more ppl there are that use it?  I planned on tipping u probably a lot more than 100 $150 users combined if this thing really works that well.






At the minute I'm offering ICY really cheap... but for rent without open source code.   I want to get real world data from multiple parties and do some real world analysis on that very question.   


To get an idea of how it works...

The "spread" is the price range from the last buy to the last sell.

ICY spank places orders of anywhere from 250.00 to 350.00 LTC (at random); those orders are on the books anywhere from 25 to 35 seconds (at random) with anywhere between 4 and 10 seconds of latency (I have no control over this) between orders.   The buy price is a random price in the lower half of the spread.  Sell price is a random price in the upper half of the spread.

Every 25-35 seconds the process repeats; new entropy factors are generated, new ticker data is accumulated, new orders are placed.  SPANK users are assured their orders are at or near the top of the book always.

.... so how could users with more than $100k of holdings make the MOST effective solution to ensuring that your orders get filled?

3 BTCe accounts each running 3 instances of spank.   Each account would have instances running on different offsets... but the three instances on each individual account would have the same offset.

So at any time you'd have 3 6 or 9 orders on the books,..  from there orders could be proportioned to your holding size to maximize effectiveness.   But this customization would require the user  to buy rather than rent spank.   

Before we get there... I want live data.  Hence my 30 day special $39 offering which is 60% off the market order version of spank.


One thing that spank has going for it... VERY LOW trade frequency... one trade every 3 days on average for LTCUSD since Nov 1 2013... the less trades with the same gain, the wider the margin per trade.  The wider the margin per trade, the less a fixed amount of slippage becomes an issue.  




> Pres, Awesome job with SPANK! The Iceberg order is what we needed!


Thanks!

----------


## presence

1st day sales of Icy Spank...




if you're new to cryptotrader please use my affiliate link so I get commissions for you signing up:

https://cryptotrader.org/?r=72

much love,

litepresence

----------


## muh_roads

> 1st day sales of Icy Spank...
> 
> 
> 
> much love,
> 
> litepresence


You should see me as #7 now.  Will PM u the live link shortly.

----------


## muh_roads

The backtest looks like it skips a huge chunk of time...

         2013-11-01 19:00 Simulation started. Balance: 10000.00 USD       
                     2014-04-22 21:00 Iceberg Ask Number 69

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I decided to take advantage of liquidity swaps.  If I'm going to bet on the market direction, I'm going to have to sink more money into it.  I'm starting to feel more bearish about it, so I might try to short again.

----------


## presence

> The backtest looks like it skips a huge chunk of time...
> 
>          2013-11-01 19:00 Simulation started. Balance: 10000.00 USD       
>                      2014-04-22 21:00 Iceberg Ask Number 69



The log file only has so many lines.   The bot ran during the period from 11-1 to 04-22... you just can't see the data.   One of the limitations of crptotrader is the limited log file lines.   You'll notice in live mode that over time you'll lose old trading data too.   It doesn't effect trading... just reporting.     I can code around that by making fewer reports or running backtests for fewer days to zoom in on detail log reports while in development.

So its giving you the initilization report and the most recent 100 or so debug lines.  The bot probably had thousands of debug lines in that time from all the small trades.


Also in backtest mode it always places orders at candle closing price regarless of where I have coded the limits.  "ticker" data is bonded to candle close in backtest mode.

----------


## muh_roads

hmmmm...

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/C9XkNLCuE72MSwtDT

----------


## muh_roads

Also someone mentioned this...




> <>did you let it initialize for 24 hours
> <>before letting it use your money?
> 
> <me>how do you let it "initialize for 24 hours"?  do you mean backtest for 24h?
> 
> <>lock your money in a limit order so the bot can't use it for 24 hours
> <>and let it collect data
> <>then let it go
> 
> ...


no idea what he's talking about...

----------


## nayjevin

Certain strategy implementations require realtime aggregation of ticker data.  For instance, if you want to wait for the estimated moving average over the past 30 ticks to be above the current price to buy, you must have data for the previous 30 ticks.  When starting a bot, it may be that cryptotrader doesn't automatically give it the information from the market prior to the start of the bot.  In other words, maybe BTC was $500 when you started the bot, it goes down to $495, your bot thinks it should buy, because all it knows is $500, so it thinks that is the average.  But what it doesn't know is that it has been around $400 all day, and happened to spike to $500 the second you started the bot.  Back down it goes from $495 to the real average of $400 - and you've bought too high.

Not sure if this is how cryptotrader works, cause I haven't done anything there or thought about it in a while, but I remember thinking about this before.  I don't have any strategies that would trade any significant amount in the first 24 hours anyway, so it never really mattered to me.

----------


## nayjevin

Now that I think about it I remember pres mentioning initializing his bot somewhere in this thread, referring to dragonslayer.

When I was running dragonslayer I kept most of my litecoin away from it by setting a sell order that would never be filled, something like $1,000.  With only a few litecoin available, the bot said something like 'less than $500 available, buying maximum coin.' Or maybe it was 'selling all coin.'  That's what I referred to earlier that it wasn't built for an investor like me, only wanting to risk a small amount of money until I see how it works.  It would say 'bull market' and then 5 minutes later 'bear market'.... this might be because it hadn't run long enough to initialize, didn't have any history of data to determine a real pattern.  Assuming it would be able to determine a real pattern with ample data, of course.

----------


## muh_roads

> Certain strategy implementations require realtime aggregation of ticker data.  For instance, if you want to wait for the estimated moving average over the past 30 ticks to be above the current price to buy, you must have data for the previous 30 ticks.  When starting a bot, it may be that cryptotrader doesn't automatically give it the information from the market prior to the start of the bot.  In other words, maybe BTC was $500 when you started the bot, it goes down to $495, your bot thinks it should buy, because all it knows is $500, so it thinks that is the average.  But what it doesn't know is that it has been around $400 all day, and happened to spike to $500 the second you started the bot.  Back down it goes from $495 to the real average of $400 - and you've bought too high.
> 
> Not sure if this is how cryptotrader works, cause I haven't done anything there or thought about it in a while, but I remember thinking about this before.  I don't have any strategies that would trade any significant amount in the first 24 hours anyway, so it never really mattered to me.


oh that makes sense...  thanks!

----------


## presence

> hmmmm...
> 
> https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/C9XkNLCuE72MSwtDT



amongst botsmiths... we refer to these losses in terms of "win percentage" 






> *Investopedia explains 'Win/Loss Ratio'*
> 
> 
> For example, if you made 30 trades and of them 12 were winners 18 were losers, your win/loss ratio would be 2:3. Your probability of success would be 40%. 
> 
> 
> The win/loss ratio is used in calculating the risk/reward ratio. *It is not very useful on its own because it does not take into account the monetary value won or lost in each trade.* For example, a win/loss ratio of 2:1, means the trader has twice as many winning trades than losing. Sounds good, but if the losing trades have dollar losses three-times as large as the dollar gains of the winning trades, the trader has a losing strategy.



http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/win-loss-ratio.asp


WIN/loss is not to be confused with PROFIT/loss:




> *Investopedia explains 'Profit/Loss Ratio'*
> 
> Many books advocate at least a 2:1 ratio. For example, if a system had a winning average of $400 per trade and an average loss over the same time of $240 per trade then your profit/loss ratio would be 5:3 or 1.67:1. 
> 
> The profit/loss ratio can be an overly simplistic way of looking at performance because it fails to take into account an individual's risk tolerance or the probability of gains for each trade.


http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/...loss_ratio.asp


Market order SPANK v1.0 earns 290X cash on 59 trades.  At 70% that's about 41 winning trades and 18 losing trades.  




simplified:

win / loss (we generally strive for 3:2 aka 6/10; spank scores 7/10)

is ratio of tally of profitable trades vs losing trades.

profit / loss (books recommend 2:1) 

is the ratio of profits per average winning trade vs losses per average losing trade


Here are the W/L and P/L statements for SPANK from Nov 1 to April 30th in both cash and LTC terms:
Cash loss
Losing Tally
Cash profits
Winning Tally



-221,035.36
1
565,131.63
1



-85,113.72
1
369,249.26
1



-39,549.82
1
327,335.52
1



-14,965.17
1
319,763.55
1



-12,928.66
1
283,375.21
1



-11,843.99
1
246,189.70
1



-9,445.14
1
203,056.42
1



-9,014.66
1
182,651.50
1



-8,899.03
1
159,030.79
1



-8,284.78
1
146,752.80
1



-7,547.66
1
133,071.82
1



-7,510.09
1
118,048.64
1



-7,488.35
1
92,315.03
1



-7,457.44
1
82,319.74
1



-7,312.91
1
71,681.15
1



-7,154.98
1
45,402.82
1



-6,911.31
1
44,717.54
1



-6,437.25
1
21,824.14
1



-5,941.81
1
17,577.18
1



-4,761.23
1
14,140.35
1



-2,986.31
1
13,959.48
1



-2,578.04
1
6,897.21
1



-2,531.58
1
5,953.59
1



-2,362.36
1
3,048.52
1



-2,348.18
1
1,902.96
1



-1,761.74
1







-1,314.74
1







-1,050.36
1







-953.34
1







-902.33
1







-164.97
1







-142.3
1







-142.25
1







-49.89
1







-42.83
1







-508,934.56
35
3,475,396.57
25





-14,540.99


139,015.86






































In Cash Terms:









WIN / LOSS
0.71
To 1
41.67%



PROFIT/LOSS
9.56
To 1
856.03%




In cash terms

41.6% of trades are winning

Winning trades are 856% bigger than losing trades




hedge... hedge... hedge...  *SPANK! * hedge... hedge... hedge...  *SPANK!*


LTC loss
Losing Tally
LTC gain
Winning Tally



-25,228.76
1
102,846.01
1



-6,309.52
1
38,931.84
1



-5,268.04
1
21,826.99
1



-2,775.24
1
17,575.20
1



-620.01
1
16,624.56
1



-406.52
1
16,413.73
1



-217.6
1
11,967.78
1







11,733.64
1







10,198.39
1







10,189.62
1







8,068.55
1







5,912.64
1







3,067.82
1







2,886.53
1







1,896.92
1







1,721.19
1







1,654.77
1







1,388.61
1







1,162.29
1







963.81
1







615.75
1







122.15
1







4.63
1



-40,825.69
7
287,773.42
23





-5,832.24


12,511.89



























In LTC terms:









WIN / LOSS
3.29
To 1
76.67%



PROFIT/LOSS
2.15
To 1
114.53%



In LTC terms

76.6% of trades are winning

Winning trades are 114% bigger than losing trades




*LTC transactions are in buy/sell pairs(hence 30 instead of 60)... as every sell is 0 gain or loss.  

view spreadsheet here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...xhY/edit#gid=0





> 2014-02-28 15:00 Trades: 8 Day: 27.50 Freq: 3.4 Price: 13.44
> 2014-02-28 15:00 1000 Currency: $927/927 *-7% ROI * 
> 2014-02-28 15:00 47 Assets: 0/69 *46% ROI* 0% Held





You'll note... that although the bot lost *-7%* "cash" value in the bear market in question... it gained *46%* in LTC shares during the period.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_(...s-making_trade



> *Currency[edit]*
> 
> Selling short on the currency markets is different from selling short on the stock markets. Currencies are traded in pairs, each currency being priced in terms of another. In this way, selling short on the currency markets is identical to going long on stocks.
> Novice traders or stock traders can be confused by the failure to recognize and understand this point: 
> _
> 
> a contract 
> is always long in terms of one medium 
> and short another.
> ...



When you take a "short" position on LTC... you are the one making the "loans" of your LTC's to the market.  The bot is your "trader".    


*"Buy Low, Sell High"* is one of 3 profitable moves a trader can make.  These are generally "winning trades" and this is *commonly understood* to be the only way to "make money" trading_ among novice traders. 
_Its also known as *"range trading"*.  



However there are also _profitable_ "losing trades" you can make while *"trend trading"*:

*"Sell Low,* *Buy Lower**"*  and *"Buy High,* *Sell Higher**"* are the other types. 


"Sell Low, Buy Lower" is generally what we call *"shorting". 
*





Wolong spoke about this in his doge coin book which you posted.  He called it *"position building"* through* "price suppression"*.


"Buy High, Sell Higher" is what we would generally refer to as *"pumping"*.   Here we see SPANK "buying high" on March 4th about 6 hours prior to "selling higher". 




In ideal circumstances sometimes you are even able to manage a "winning short" or a "winning pump".  Winning trades however are most often taken in a volatile range or on an overall long position on a bullish asset.  


hope this helps...


"Crypto Long, *More Coinz Short*" 

LP 




IMAGES MAY EXTEND OFF SCREEN... RIGHT CLICK TO VIEW

----------


## presence

http://alunacrypto.blogspot.com/2014...ipulation.html




> *Aluna Crypto Currency*
> 
> 
> Cryptocurrency Trading Tips, Tutorials & Strategy Insights by Alvin Lee (@onemanatatime) | Fundamental Analysis | Technical Analysis | Market Psychology | Bitcoin | Altcoins | Quantum Holdings
> 
> HomeFollow me on Twitter
> 
> 
> *SATURDAY, MAY 3, 2014*
> ...



You want to visit the link for more "words of wisdom"

----------


## presence

updates:
added a smaller 1000 initial investment backtest to ICY SPANK which boosts earnings closer to the original SPANK bot's:

SPANK market orders = 297X cash 
Icy Spank w/ $10k initial = 253X cash
Icy Spank w/ only $1k initial investment = 296X cash

The difference being with $10k initial investment the bot is left to sell over 230,000 LTC in its final move in 250 LTC chunks every 30 seconds... so the process takes several 2h candles... 

mo money mo problems

----------


## presence

> Also someone mentioned this...
> 
> 
> 
> no idea what he's talking about...



On "initializing" SPANK... 



In the first 24 hours spank will only exibit 1 sigma accuracy or about 68% chance of doing what it would have done if had started running last month.

By day 3-4 it it reaches 2 sigma; about 95% accuracy; if it misses its criteria... it will only be by a candle or two.  

At day 6 its 99% trading in the same candle it would have otherwise chosen with more data; 3 sigma


By 10 days its moving towards 99.9% or 4 sigma

6 sigma accuracy would theoretically occur at 60 days as its longest indicator is EMA 720 on 2h candles.   If the bot is initialized in a low volatility period like right now (relative to say December 2013) then 6 sigma accuracy would occur much sooner.

...this is all in the realm of theoretical; I've have done no hard analysis... just lots of hands on backtesting and a good eye for numbers and trends.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

What kind of market conditions does spank work in?  Is it good no matter what the price of BTC is doing at the time?

----------


## presence

> What kind of market conditions does spank work in?  Is it good no matter what the price of BTC is doing at the time?



It should be "compatible" with all market conditions in any currency pair on any exchange.  Its "finely" tuned to LTCUSD.

Tested and profitable:

LTCUSD Nov 1 2013 to current (BEST PERFORMANCE)
LTCBTC Nov 1 2013 to current
NMCUSD Jan 1 2013 to current
PPCUSD Jan 1 2013 to current
NMCBTC Jan 1 2013 to current
XPMBTC Jan 1 2013 to current
BTCUSD March 2013 to current + multiple instances from 2010 to current Gox data.  

RECOMMENDED and best performing, as tuned, for LTCUSD.

Profitable in any 60 day block of time in any currency pair tested so far.  


I do intend to "retune" a future release to be more market neutral; that is, performing equal in any currency pair;  the bulk of my tuning has been on the Nov1 to Current LTCUSD data set.


The bot has built in bull and bear market indicators to switch computational method and logic when the market long changes.

----------


## presence

BULLISH BREAKOUT ***NOW***

----------


## presence

2842 HOUBI 10000 BTC 1h volume
464 STAMP 4000 BTC 1h volume
450 BTCe 1500 BTC 1h volume






*BULLS ON PARADE!!!!
*

(mod note- NSFW)
http://i.imgur.com/t4iVoSF.jpg







*posted 5 days ago:*






*posted 2 days ago:*



^^^ thanks for reading _the litepresence report on crypto currency_

----------


## presence

*US Federal Reserve: Bitcoin Potential ‘Boon’ for Global Commerce*http://www.coindesk.com/federal-rese...obal-commerce/

----------


## presence

> The American Internal Revenue Service (IRS) has issued an FAQ sheet to provide guidance on how US taxpayers should report their transactions in Bitcoin, in accordance with the government's recent decision to treat the cryptocurrency as property instead of money.
> 
> As could probably be expected, what the US government expects for its Bitcoin-using taxpayers to remain strictly legal is an absolute bookkeeping nightmare.
> 
> 
> Here's a breakdown of the information provided in the report, creatively and memorably titled Notice 2014-21:
> 
> 
> *Bitcoin transactions will be taxed as property transactions.*
> ...


I'll keep that in mind when I'm pumping alt coins with hundreds of micro 1000ths of a penny buy bids...




http://cointelegraph.com/news/111487...re_a_nightmare







> _“Taxpayers who fail to report their income from virtual currency may potentially be subject to tax penalties,”_ the notice warns.
> 
> 
> Past transactions, back before Bitcoin was A Thing, count too. Taxpayers who treated Bitcoin trades in a way inconsistent with Notice2014-21 even before it was issued will not receive penalty relief if they fail to report and pay taxes on their past transactions.
> 
> 
> _“This will require many businesses and individuals to go back and determine the existence of gain or loss on transactions that occurred in the past, perhaps several years in the past,”_ the notice says.



lulzy




> In reality, the IRS will have a hell of a time tracking Bitcoin transactions down to this level of detail.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Awesome news.  It's go time!

----------


## muh_roads

Litecoin has hit 51% on one of the pools.  Luckily the pool has no ill will intentions...I don't think.

----------


## presence

> Litecoin has hit 51% on one of the pools.  Luckily the pool has no ill will intentions...I don't think.


Apparently the market is taking this more seriously...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Apparently the market is taking this more seriously...


Yeah, I don't think the market is willing to assume "no ill will intentions".  A weakness is a weakness.  LTC miners had better figure that out quick before LTC becomes obsolete.

----------


## muh_roads

LTC/USD seems fine.

The LTC/BTC ratio is dropping because BTC/USD is going up much faster.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> LTC/USD seems fine.
> 
> The LTC/BTC ratio is dropping because BTC/USD is going up much faster.


Traditionally, this is the opposite of what happens.  I think it signals the caution that the market is taking with LTC because of this news.  They're not going to let it slide until the situation is corrected.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Bought 12 BTC at ~457.  Waiting for it to arrive in my Coinbase account.  Looking really good so far.

Also of note is that Stamp is leading the way.  Could this be a departure from the Chinese-dominated market of 2013 and early '14?

----------


## amonasro

Market order spank bot is keeping me long as it should, no trades yet. 

Can I get an AMEN for breaking upward?

edit: spoke too soon. Sold @ 10.57 & 10.53 a few hours ago.

----------


## presence

*15m Charts are bad for you... Mkay?*





re:

"Today's price drop is awfully scary"

----------


## zeMan

First Spank trade!


2014-05-20 14:25 Trades: 0 Day: 0.50 Freq: -- Price: 10.57
2014-05-20 14:25 1693 Currency: $0/2510 48% ROI
2014-05-20 14:25 164 Assets: 237/237 45% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-20 14:25 SELL 5 - Trade Number: 1
2014-05-20 14:25 Selling...
2014-05-20 14:25 Market Order Sell Instrument
2014-05-20 14:25 SELL order #240713667 amount: 237.35 LTC at 10.64
2014-05-20 14:25 Order #240713667 canceled as it was inactive for 30 seconds.
2014-05-20 14:25 Creating new order..
2014-05-20 14:25 SELL order #240714278 amount: 164.2 LTC at 10.61
2014-05-20 14:26 SELL order #240714278 traded. Balance: 0 LTC 2516.12 USD
2014-05-20 14:26 Market Order Sell Instrument
2014-05-20 14:26 SELL order wasn't created because the amount is less than minimum order amount

----------


## muh_roads

no spanking here.  Probably cause I $#@!ed with the bot by buying BTC while it was still running.  I still left some in there to see if it would grab any LTC.  Nope.

edit:  Are we supposed to start the bot with LTC already purchased?

----------


## presence

> no spanking here.  Probably cause I $#@!ed with the bot by buying BTC while it was still running.  I still left some in there to see if it would grab any LTC.  Nope.
> 
> edit:  Are we supposed to start the bot with LTC already purchased?



When I start crypto trader bots... 

1) I put my money on the books... whether I'm holding LTC or USD... I put it up for sale at some price that won't be filled.  The bot can't touch money on the books manually.

2) I start the bot.

3) I run a recent backtest from of the last 60 days and 30 days into the future.

4) I position myself as the backtest suggests... and put my money back on the books manually out of the bot's reach.

5) I run and re-run the backtest several times over the next few days and trade manually when and if the backtest does.

6) I find that my CT scripts run 99% accuracy to backtest after they've been live for about 5 days; massively volatile swings could take longer to correlate.   

Unfortunately there is no way to "preload" data to a live script at cryptotrader.  I've discussed this with several other botsmiths and at present... we can't manage to hack around the sandbox.  So yes...  upon initialization... weird things can happen.  Bad trades can occur... this can happen with anyone's scripts at CT.   You can mitigate by initializing on a small sum and adding bank later.  



zeMan regarding your initialization... the bot sold under condition 5.  I then begins a 48 hour countdown until it will buy again; per backtest... the bot WANTED to sell on May 11th per sell condition 3 which has no delay.   So I'd keep an eye on the backtest March 20 to June 20th 2014 and do as it does for the first few days manually.

----------


## nayjevin

Yeah, Tradewave allows full python implementation, what I referred to earlier, that Cryptotrader is crippled.  In python, as any programmer can imagine, it's pretty simple to set a counter to each tick and wait for enough ticks to pass to have enough data to make an informed trade.  Can't sell strategies on Tradewave though.  Seems like a pretty impressive operation, but still requires full trust in an individual in a very new and unregulated(?) market.  I have a good impression of Tradewave, but questioning my impressions lately

----------


## muh_roads

I hear all the cool kids use python and connect it up to the exchange on their own.  But if tradewave is good and it uses python, then that should feel about the same unless the limited gayness exists there as it does ct.

pres.  Do u mostly run your bot simulated?  Does it run better without bid logic so the 4kb available is better spent on more indicators?

I'm wondering if the best thing to do is just run it simulated and manually copy the trades it makes?

I would personally love it to handle trading for me without me having to think about it but that sounds like a fantasy, especially with how $#@!ty Alex is at ct.

I kinda like the idea of trading it manually and doing what it says simulated.

----------


## presence

> I hear all the cool kids use python and connect it up to the exchange on their own.  But if tradewave is good and it uses python, then that should feel about the same unless the limited gayness exists there as it does ct.
> 
> pres.  Do u mostly run your bot simulated?  Does it run better without bid logic so the 4kb available is better spent on more indicators?
> 
> I'm wondering if the best thing to do is just run it simulated and manually copy the trades it makes?
> 
> I would personally love it to handle trading for me without me having to think about it but that sounds like a fantasy, especially with how $#@!ty Alex is at ct.
> 
> I kinda like the idea of trading it manually and doing what it says simulated.




I generally feel safe sleeping in my ct bots that have been initialized for a few days, especially now that I have iceberg orders working.


Currently... I lost my desktop PC... it was my 2fa device for BTCe... so I'm in ticket mode at btce and have no access to "litepresence" or "litepresence2" ... so no live scripts for me atm.

My funds however, are  luckily mostly at Mintpal... and I'm trading small cap alt coins.


Certainly no shame it using a CT bot or any bot for that matter as a "investment advisor" rather than automated trader.   I run 5 simulations at all times of other scripts.... whenever my live trader trades I always go back and see what my "alternate" simulations were doing.  I usually err on the side of trusting my preferred live script to do its thing. 

Atm... I'm wishing I could just plunk my funds back in BTCe account and let ICY SPANK handle it... I might just make a litepresence3 account to move that forward faster 

LP

----------


## presence

So... on the subject of a new computer... my budget is 2 BTC, here's what I'm looking at:



*GIGABYTE GA-F2A88XM-D3H Motherboard    79.99 free shipping*
*Samsung SSD 250     SataIII            139.99 free shipping * 
*AMD A10-7850K APU            169.99 free shipping*
*Kingston HyperX FURY 16GB (2x8) 1600DDR3    139.99 free shipping*

complimented with:

ASUS DRW-24B1ST DVD            22.69 free shipping
Antec EA-550 Platinum 550 Power Supply  89.99 free shipping
Silverstone Tek Micro-ATX  PS07B        79.99 free shipping
Noctua NH-U14S CPU cooler    68.49 free shipping

+/- $800


I have 2 19" samsung monitors.   I'm also looking to pick up a $230 Acer 27" monitor for a 3 monitor system which the FM2+ motherboard should run without additional graphics cards.



This would be an upgrade from my now cooked:

Pentium 2.4 Core Duo
2 GB Ram
WB Green 250 MB
w/ single 19" monitor

...which was barely adequate for what I do.  

I'm currently on a acer laptop:

P Socket 1.8 GHz Core 2 Duo 
100MB SATA 
1G DDR3 PC3-5800 (2x512)

Which is simply inadequate to build or run bots; I can't have more than 2 live wisdom charts going; one if I want to do ANYTHING else.    I also have 90 gig of the 100 full.  14" screen?  can suck it.

I've never purchased a computer before... I have four machines that are all in the sub 2 GHz and 1 gig of ram category... they're all "curb scores" that I've reformatted and installed *l*ubuntu (LXDE ubuntu) on.  Lubuntu is a super fast low requirement operating system.  I love lubuntu... but I'm desperately in need of a new machine.  Call me crazy... but I'll probably still run lubuntu on my   7850 APU w/ 16 gigs of ram 

http://lubuntu.net/

Any thoughts on my shopping list would be appreciated.  

Goals

4-6 live Bitcoinwisdom Charts
Photoshop images up to 1600x3200
Multiple cryptotrader.org bots
Zero interest in gaming or mining with this machine
moderate/occasional "HTPC" usage

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So... on the subject of a new computer... my budget is 2 BTC, here's what I'm looking at:
> 
> 
> 
> *GIGABYTE GA-F2A88XM-D3H Motherboard    79.99 free shipping*
> *Samsung SSD 250     SataIII            139.99 free shipping * 
> *AMD A10-7850K APU            169.99 free shipping*
> *Kingston HyperX FURY 16GB (2x8) 1600DDR3    139.99 free shipping*
> 
> ...


I'm on an Acer laptop, too.  It's the first computer I've ever had and still doing just fine.  It's probably not adequate for what you do, but it's a pretty reliable machine.

----------


## amonasro

Pres, I have you covered. PM sent.

----------


## muh_roads

> When I start crypto trader bots... 
> 
> 1) I put my money on the books... whether I'm holding LTC or USD... I put it up for sale at some price that won't be filled.  The bot can't touch money on the books manually.
> 
> 2) I start the bot.
> 
> 3) I run a recent backtest from of the last 60 days and 30 days into the future.
> 
> 4) I position myself as the backtest suggests... and put my money back on the books manually out of the bot's reach.
> ...


I've read and re-read this post.  Sorry, I still don't understand what you're saying.  Backtest into the future?  Position yourself based on a backtest?  Like, chart overlapping to assume where we are at?

So essentially the bots shouldn't be used to trade live until they have been running for 5 days with the funds locked...?

Is it okay to trade manually other markets while this is running?  Did buying BTC while icy spank was focused on LTC live screw with anything?

Are you pointing icy at BTC, NMC, PPC?

----------


## amonasro

> I've read and re-read this post.  Sorry, I still don't understand what you're saying.  Backtest into the future?  Position yourself based on a backtest?  Like, chart overlapping to assume where we are at?


lol @ Backtest to the Future. Great Scott! Can the bot do 88 mph? 

I think what he means is that he sets the date 30 days into the future. It obviously doesn't give data from the future, but it allows the bot to decide whether to hold coin or fiat.




> So essentially the bots shouldn't be used to trade live until they have been running for 5 days with the funds locked...?


Personal preference. I believe what he was saying before is that you can't load past data into the bot. So the bot can only trade what it knows. Obviously the more data it has, the better price it will buy/sell at within a few percentage points. I don't know enough about bot programming to know if there's a function that helps the bot "learn" by remembering past trades though. You can see that with zeMan's results it sold him out @ 10.64 and 10.61. My bot's same trade was 10.57 and 10.53. Theoretically had the bot been trading a bit longer, it might have grabbed a better price. The margin of error closes within a few days to an insignificant number, so it will be interesting to see how close our results all are. Of course all of our trades will be dictated by depth, tick offset and timing rather than what the bots wants to sell at.

Unless the bot becomes self-aware. Then we have bigger problems.




> Is it okay to trade manually other markets while this is running?  Did buying BTC while icy spank was focused on LTC live screw with anything?


This is a good question. I was wondering this last night but ultimately left the bot on to be sure. I was also wondering whether sending assets to/from the BTCe account would confuse the bot's trading logic.

----------


## presence

> I've read and re-read this post.  Sorry, I still don't understand what you're saying.  Backtest into the future?  Position yourself based on a backtest?  Like, chart overlapping to assume where we are at?


I set the end date of the backtest in the future so I can re use the same link to test again tomorrow.... its "kind of" like a live simulation... but backtesting is more accurate because it has 60 days of old data.  Whereas if I start a sim today its no more accurate than starting a live trader today.




> So essentially the bots shouldn't be used to trade live until they have been running for 5 days with the funds locked...?


short and skinny... yes... any script at crypto trader that relies upon more than 250 ticks of data will not start out 100% accurately.   This script does include a 720 EMA.  Its difficult to say "when" it will be 99.99 accurate because it depends on volatility of the market.   Its a degree of sigma situation... where at first its about 70% accurate... then 95% accurate within a day then over time gets closer and closer to 99.999 etc.  In the first day or two bad things can happen... for example... zeMan started his bot on the 18th but the bot would have already sold on the 11th.  Well the criteria under which it sold on those two days was different... so by initilizing on the 18th zeMan inadvertantly set off a timer that forced "no new trades for 48 hours".  The timer would not have been triggered if the bot was live on the tenth and sold on the 11th like it wanted to do.   

So moral of story...

Always initialize your bots on a small amount of funds.   Weird things can happen that are hard to predict when they start up.   Watch your most recent backtests... after the first few trades that the bot makes live are matching up with the latest trades of the backtest... then you should  be safe to put your bank on it.  




> Is it okay to trade manually other markets while this is running?  Did buying BTC while icy spank was focused on LTC live screw with anything?


The bot has no idea what you are doing in other markets or when you give it coins or take them away.   This makes no effect on its method or logic.  If anything it will only disturb your log report ROI calculations which are for your viewing purposes only and not involved in calculation.




> Are you pointing icy at BTC, NMC, PPC?


I'm balls deep in small cap alt coins.  I'm in the red atm and HODL'ing.

----------


## presence

> I'm on an Acer laptop, too.  It's the first computer I've ever had and still doing just fine.  It's probably not adequate for what you do, but it's a pretty reliable machine.


From my research and experience... if its over 6 years old... spend $139 and get yourself a new samsung SSD 250 gig hard drive.   Drives break down over time... and you don't want to be stuck with all your hard work and family pictures on a smoked drive like me.  While you're in there here are some other things to consider:




> Acer 4315 Laptop:
> STOCK:
> P Socket 1.8 GHz Core 2 Duo 
> 100MB SATA 
> 1G DDR3 PC3-5800 (2x512)
> 
> 
> UPGRADE OPTIONS:
> *Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66GHz                          $21.00
> ...



The SSD will probably outlive your laptop and could be salvaged for another build in the future.  The chip and ram are so cheap you can't help do it while you're in there.  New CPU fan = good idea.

----------


## presence

> Pres, I have you covered. PM sent.



I'll probably take you up on that...That BEAST noctua cooler is what I'm most interest in... I want to do some research about fitment in my preferred silverstone microATX case and relative to the DDR3 height.

----------


## presence

So I released a new script last night in the wee dark hours... 

Its incomplete and open source community development preferred:

*120 trit Genetic Quad Harmonic SAR * 

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/Jm3y6v7LnFFsZYxdu

https://cryptotrader.org/topics/4660...4-harmonic-sar




> 120 trit Genetic 4 Harmonic SARAll possible permutations of 5 character string A,B,C,D,and E = 120 permuations.
> ABCD are discrete SAR harmonics
> E is EMA(2) ; short
> trit = [-1,0,1] (usually 0,1,2 in a ternary system... but I used -1,0,1 so buy sell hold was easier to conceptualize)
> -1 = sell ; 0 = hold ; 1 = buy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## amonasro

> Always initialize your bots on a small amount of funds.   Weird things can happen that are hard to predict when they start up.   Watch your most recent backtests... after the first few trades that the bot makes live are matching up with the latest trades of the backtest... then you should  be safe to put your bank on it.


Thanks, didn't realize this.

I started mine on the 16th... I guess I should just leave mine running at this point?

Here's the story so far:

2014-05-16 17:47 Trader initialized successfully. Starting balance: 621.4 LTC 0 USD
2014-05-16 19:00 Trades: 0 Day: 0.00 Freq: -- Price: 10.30
2014-05-16 19:00 6403 Currency: $0/6403 0% ROI
2014-05-16 19:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-16 19:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-16 21:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-16 23:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 01:00 Trades: 0 Day: 0.25 Freq: -- Price: 10.26
2014-05-17 01:00 6403 Currency: $0/6373 -0% ROI
2014-05-17 01:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-17 01:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 03:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 05:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 07:00 Trades: 0 Day: 0.50 Freq: -- Price: 10.31
2014-05-17 07:00 6403 Currency: $0/6408 0% ROI
2014-05-17 07:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-17 07:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 09:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 11:02 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 13:00 Trades: 0 Day: 0.75 Freq: -- Price: 10.30
2014-05-17 13:00 6403 Currency: $0/6399 -0% ROI
2014-05-17 13:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-17 13:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 15:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 17:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 19:00 Trades: 0 Day: 1.00 Freq: -- Price: 10.25
2014-05-17 19:00 6403 Currency: $0/6371 -0% ROI
2014-05-17 19:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-17 19:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 21:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-17 23:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 01:00 Trades: 0 Day: 1.25 Freq: -- Price: 10.31
2014-05-18 01:00 6403 Currency: $0/6406 0% ROI
2014-05-18 01:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-18 01:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 03:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 05:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 07:00 Trades: 0 Day: 1.50 Freq: -- Price: 10.33
2014-05-18 07:00 6403 Currency: $0/6417 0% ROI
2014-05-18 07:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-18 07:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 09:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 11:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 13:00 Trades: 0 Day: 1.75 Freq: -- Price: 10.30
2014-05-18 13:00 6403 Currency: $0/6398 -0% ROI
2014-05-18 13:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-18 13:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 15:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 17:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 19:00 Trades: 0 Day: 2.00 Freq: -- Price: 10.32
2014-05-18 19:00 6403 Currency: $0/6415 0% ROI
2014-05-18 19:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-18 19:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 21:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-18 23:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 01:00 Trades: 0 Day: 2.25 Freq: -- Price: 10.33
2014-05-19 01:00 6403 Currency: $0/6422 0% ROI
2014-05-19 01:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-19 01:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 03:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 05:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 07:00 Trades: 0 Day: 2.50 Freq: -- Price: 10.24
2014-05-19 07:00 6403 Currency: $0/6361 -1% ROI
2014-05-19 07:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-19 07:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 09:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 11:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 13:00 Trades: 0 Day: 2.75 Freq: -- Price: 10.25
2014-05-19 13:00 6403 Currency: $0/6369 -1% ROI
2014-05-19 13:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-19 13:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 15:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 17:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 19:00 Trades: 0 Day: 3.00 Freq: -- Price: 10.22
2014-05-19 19:00 6403 Currency: $0/6349 -1% ROI
2014-05-19 19:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-19 19:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 21:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-19 23:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 01:00 Trades: 0 Day: 3.25 Freq: -- Price: 10.32
2014-05-20 01:00 6403 Currency: $0/6415 0% ROI
2014-05-20 01:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-20 01:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 03:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 05:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 07:00 Trades: 0 Day: 3.50 Freq: -- Price: 10.31
2014-05-20 07:00 6403 Currency: $0/6405 0% ROI
2014-05-20 07:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-20 07:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 09:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 13:00 Trades: 0 Day: 3.75 Freq: -- Price: 10.54
2014-05-20 13:00 6403 Currency: $0/6552 2% ROI
2014-05-20 13:00 621 Assets: 621/621 0% ROI 100% Held
2014-05-20 13:00 SELL 5 - Trade Number: 1
2014-05-20 13:00 Attempting to SELL
2014-05-20 13:00 SELL order #240673778 amount: 621.4 LTC at 10.57
2014-05-20 13:00 Order #240673778 canceled as it was inactive for 30 seconds.
2014-05-20 13:00 Creating new order..
2014-05-20 13:00 SELL order #240674288 amount: 449.97 LTC at 10.53
2014-05-20 13:01 SELL order #240674288 traded. Balance: 0 LTC 6537.44 USD
2014-05-20 15:00 wait for it... 25
2014-05-20 15:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 17:00 wait for it... 24
2014-05-20 17:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 19:00 Trades: 1 Day: 4.00 Freq: 4.0 Price: 10.52
2014-05-20 19:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-20 19:00 621 Assets: 0/622 0% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-20 19:00 wait for it... 23
2014-05-20 19:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 21:00 wait for it... 22
2014-05-20 21:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-20 23:00 wait for it... 21
2014-05-20 23:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 01:00 Trades: 1 Day: 4.25 Freq: 4.3 Price: 10.59
2014-05-21 01:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-21 01:00 621 Assets: 0/617 -1% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-21 01:00 wait for it... 20
2014-05-21 01:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 03:00 wait for it... 19
2014-05-21 03:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 05:00 wait for it... 18
2014-05-21 05:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 07:00 Trades: 1 Day: 4.50 Freq: 4.5 Price: 10.57
2014-05-21 07:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-21 07:00 621 Assets: 0/618 -0% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-21 07:00 wait for it... 17
2014-05-21 07:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 09:00 wait for it... 16
2014-05-21 09:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 11:00 wait for it... 15
2014-05-21 11:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 13:00 Trades: 1 Day: 4.75 Freq: 4.8 Price: 10.41
2014-05-21 13:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-21 13:00 621 Assets: 0/628 1% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-21 13:00 wait for it... 14
2014-05-21 13:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 15:00 wait for it... 13
2014-05-21 15:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 17:00 wait for it... 12
2014-05-21 17:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 19:00 Trades: 1 Day: 5.00 Freq: 5.0 Price: 10.48
2014-05-21 19:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-21 19:00 621 Assets: 0/624 0% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-21 19:00 wait for it... 11
2014-05-21 19:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 21:00 wait for it... 10
2014-05-21 21:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-21 23:00 wait for it... 9
2014-05-21 23:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-22 01:00 Trades: 1 Day: 5.25 Freq: 5.3 Price: 10.40
2014-05-22 01:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-22 01:00 621 Assets: 0/629 1% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-22 01:00 wait for it... 8
2014-05-22 01:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-22 03:00 wait for it... 7
2014-05-22 03:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-22 05:00 wait for it... 6
2014-05-22 05:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-22 07:00 Trades: 1 Day: 5.50 Freq: 5.5 Price: 10.57
2014-05-22 07:00 6403 Currency: $6537/6537 2% ROI
2014-05-22 07:00 621 Assets: 0/619 -0% ROI 0% Held
2014-05-22 07:00 wait for it... 5
2014-05-22 07:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-22 09:00 wait for it... 4
2014-05-22 09:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
2014-05-22 11:00 wait for it... 3
2014-05-22 11:00 NO ACTION TAKEN

----------


## presence

amonasro at 6 days in you should be fine... the "wait for it" timer you have running should run out in the next 2 hours so it won't be doing anything anymore... and **most** of the data needed for the longer EMA's will be present.

----------


## presence

> Dear Users of Poloniex, 
> 
> As you may have heard, an attempt to hack into Poloniex's hot wallet server via social engineering was made several weeks ago on May 3rd. The attack was successfully repelled and no funds were taken, but as a precaution, the old BTC hot wallet had to be considered compromised. This means that any BTC or XCP addresses generated on or before May 3rd should NOT be used for deposits. 
> 
> This email is notify anyone still using such addresses that funds deposited there will soon no longer be recoverable. Future deposits to such addresses may be LOST. Please do NOT send any more BTC or XCP to any deposit address generated on or before May 3rd. Any BTC or XCP address currently appearing on your Balances page is valid. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Tristan D'Agosta
> Poloniex, LLC


..

----------


## amonasro

> I'll probably take you up on that...That BEAST noctua cooler is what I'm most interest in... I want to do some research about fitment in my preferred silverstone microATX case and relative to the DDR3 height.


It's designed to *just* clear the ram as long as the ram is standard, not fancy with heatsinks or waterblocks. It can be installed in either direction, but most put it left-to-right due to vertical limitations in most cases.




> amonasro at 6 days in you should be fine... the "wait for it" timer you have running should run out in the next 2 hours so it won't be doing anything anymore... and **most** of the data needed for the longer EMA's will be present.


Thanks! I'm hoping it'll grab some LTC sub 10.50 should we get a correction.

Might I add the code had me laughing hysterically. Just got the "I LIKE IT DEEP POPPA...."

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I think we must be expecting a retracement pretty soon in BTC around the $540 levels after the last rise from the low.  I still hear talk of a bear trend, but I'm personally a believer.  What are the chances we could still be in a bear market long term?

----------


## lotsOfCake

pres; i'm pretty sure you can reduce the length of that script by at least a factor of 10 (and still get exactly the same behavior).
But let me guess; you are fighting against restrictions of the trade site?
Let me tell you, if you run any AI training style (even random based) on that site, they wont be happy with you, especially not if you backtest each variation.

I'm missing one thing though; what defines your successful chromosome? each of the 120 context.z_n values as floating point, tuned to a point where you always(...) get a BUY signal that matches a rise in EMA(2) ? 

If you can get access to the data, cached, and you have a good way of evaluating the fitness of a chromosome, then i can fit this whole thing neatly into a fairly standard genetic algorithm implementation. And yes, i would cache all the time series, and the ema/sar/whatever of those time series, to optimize the fitness function (to run faster).

I'm not sure a restricted version of coffeescript is the way to go. Given offline market data to test on, you could do the testing to find the optimal values in another language, then generate a "trained" coffeescript for final testing and running, with the values hardcoded.

----------


## lotsOfCake

GA basically works like this (simplified):
generate 10000 chromosomes completely randomly (typically gaussian distribution with limits)
test all of them. sort them by fitness. 
take the 100 best ones, make 10000 variations from them. 100 are pure copies. 1900 can be copies with random mutations on each. 8000 can be genetic combinations (take a from one, b from another, etc), plus some random mutations.
you then have 10000 new chromosomes based on the previously successful ones.
test all of them. sort them by fitness. 
(repeat)

----------


## zeMan

Is LTC ever going to go up?

----------


## muh_roads

> Is LTC ever going to go up?


It's starting.

LTC/USD market was a bigger day.  10.40 to 11.30 I think.




> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/...lver-ratio.asp
> http://www.kitco.com/Gold_Silver_Rat...io-charts.html
> http://www.silverseek.com/article/go...r-prices-12437
> 
> Lets use estimates for examples. (close to what it is right now in real time)
> 
> 
>   Gold = $1200
> Silver = $20
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

I need to go to bed.  So much to read.

----------


## lotsOfCake

someone just fudged with the price data that bitcoinwisdom uses to plot the doge/btc pair on cryptsy

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Hi presence,

I'm running Icy Spank, started it on 5/20, and it sold out icily around the same time *amonasro*'s did.  Have a couple questions: should I put a trade in for a few more days to lock up the funds?  Or convert them to LTC then lock them?

Also, I bought some DRK today, what do you forsee for its future?

Thanks,
LT

----------


## muh_roads

ICY bought at the top @ 11.51 and now the price is falling...LOL

How wonderful.  I'm losing interest in this whole bot thing relatively fast.

----------


## amonasro

Heh me too Paladin. It's the bot trying to grab the small dips on the way up the mountain. Not every trade is profitable.

The bull trend is pretty strong with this one. I'm going to keep it on. 

I'm looking at Huobi 12h chart and we finally get a red candle, and sell volume is not that high. My guess is we either consolidate a bit then rocket up to the next resistance point (550-580ish) or correct downward. Overall sentiment is very bullish atm so my guess is the first choice

----------


## presence

> Hi presence,
> 
> I'm running Icy Spank, started it on 5/20, and it sold out icily around the same time *amonasro*'s did.  Have a couple questions: should I put a trade in for a few more days to lock up the funds?  Or convert them to LTC then lock them?
> 
> Also, I bought some DRK today, what do you forsee for its future?
> 
> Thanks,
> LT






> 2014-05-23 10:00 BUY 3 - Trade Number: 26
> 2014-05-23 10:00 Buying...
> 2014-05-23 10:00 Market Order Buy Instrument
> 2014-05-23 10:00 BUY 125.32 LTC at 11.50
> 2014-05-23 10:00 Market Order Buy Instrument
> 2014-05-23 12:00 Trades: 26 Day: 110.25 Freq: 4.2 Price: 11.31
> 2014-05-23 12:00 1000 Currency: $0/1417 42% ROI
> 2014-05-23 12:00 46 Assets: 125/125 174% ROI 100% Held
> 2014-05-23 12:00 NO ACTION TAKEN
> ...



per forward looking backtest the LTCUSD version just purchased LTC about 5 hours ago

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/FhRwzqv3MQk4o2rEy


if your live version did not do the same I would suggest mimicking backtests manuallly and keeping *MOST* of your funds on the books manually and out of the bots reach until its live decisions match recent backtests.     Give the bot enough funds to move at least 1 LTC so you know when its signaling.


I'm not in tune w/ the dark market... I'll take a look into it and get back to you.  Great coin... innovative... keep your eyes on its reddit page for updates.

----------


## presence

> ICY bought at the top @ 11.51 and now the price is falling...LOL
> 
> How wonderful.  I'm losing interest in this whole bot thing relatively fast.



In cash terms

41.6% of trades are winning

Winning trades are* 856%* bigger than losing trades






In LTC terms

76.6% of trades are winning

Winning trades are *114%* bigger than losing trades






small loss... small loss... small loss... small loss... HUGE GAIN

...rinse repeat


= profit

small loss... small loss... small loss... panic

= fail  



*59% of trades SPANK makes will lose $

41% will gain $$$$$

*https://cryptotrader.org/topics/9465...use-a-paid-bot




> *How Not to use a paid bot*
> *marvin*2 months ago_ 687  19__
> Buy an "awesome results" botAvoid doing your own backtestsForget slippage and all the boring stuff, the simulation is exactly what I'll getActivate the bot with directly a big amount of BTCWait 4 hours, and then stress because of no-trades / a bad tradeThink you've wasted your money with this worthless botInsult the bot and his makerThink you are going to lose all, and then disable the bot because you lost too much moneySee at the end of the month that your bot actually would had made some money if it was still activeReturn to step 1
> 
> _

----------


## presence

*litepresence 2-5-15-30 Turbo Tune*


coffeescript:
https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/FGPHKPLyqjzuuY4WF


*python:*
https://tradewave.net/strategy/uDqPPUIChc


I wrote this simple ema bot in coffeescript back in January and released it open source to the cryptotrader community.  Here it is released open source to tradewave.net:



https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/lite...-tune/130/last







*Stoch RSI / SAR* 

python:
https://tradewave.net/strategy/mkUbGAjXlH#

coffeescript:
https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/yZjaXtjctmx3jLCvS



*Aroon / MFI*

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/aroo...wap-script/134

----------


## muh_roads

> _Avoid doing your own backtests_


Why does running the backtest myself matter versus just viewing your backtest?  It is a different result each time and has no connection with live trading or simulated trading.

EDIT:  Glad to see tradewave is working.  Have you tried plugging in one of your bots that require more than 4kb of serialized data?

I should rephrase what I said earlier.  I'm losing interest in bot trading because Alex and cryptotrader suck.

----------


## muh_roads

> In cash terms
> 
> 41.6% of trades are winning
> 
> Winning trades are* 856%* bigger than losing trades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bought @ 11.51, sold @ 10.90

----------


## presence

> Bought @ 11.51, sold @ 10.90


Good news is the live script is buying almost exactly like its backtest:

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/B4KeYfzqLGatNHvs7

bought 11.5 sold 10.91

but yes... losing trade... it sucks.   

Don't judge a book by its cover.   



> *59% of trades SPANK makes will lose $
> 
> 41% will gain $$$$$*
> 
> Winning trades are* 856%* bigger than losing trades

----------


## presence

HOLY DOGE $#@!!

55

----------


## muh_roads

When things aren't sure if they want to take off, your logic should almost be reversed.  If I was watching this thing simulated, I should've sold @ 11.51 when it wanted to buy, it practically grabbed the fricken top...lol

And when it sold, I should've bought more because that was the rebound point.  It practically grabbed the bottom.

Bass Ackwards.

Just hang tight I suppose...I think BTC will correct to 480-490 before moving up again...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> When things aren't sure if they want to take off, your logic should almost be reversed.  If I was watching this thing simulated, I should've sold @ 11.51 when it wanted to buy, it practically grabbed the fricken top...lol
> 
> And when it sold, I should've bought more because that was the rebound point.  It practically grabbed the bottom.
> 
> Bass Ackwards.
> 
> Just hang tight I suppose...I think BTC will correct to 480-490 before moving up again...


I wish my BTC was available.  I bought with fiat and I'm waiting for it to arrive at Coinbase.  If I had had it already, I would've sold in the 540s for sure.  Instead, I'll just have to take my measly hundreds of dollars in profit so far and be happy.  Oh well.  

I think that's what's going to happen, too.  I believe the bear market is over.

----------


## muh_roads

pres, could you try that by chance?  try reversing your bid logic and backtesting a non-bubble period?

https://cryptotrader.org/backtests/C9XkNLCuE72MSwtDT

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I think we should also consider the fact that this "final capitulation" moment is not like it was after the Gox bubble.  The circumstances are different, and we may have already gone through a sort of prolonged retracement due to the end of the descending triangle.  It's definitely possible that we won't see the price go under $500 again.  

Then again, it's possible that we are still in a bear market and this moment of excitement from escaping the triangle will fade.  I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.

----------


## muh_roads

> I think we should also consider the fact that this "final capitulation" moment is not like it was after the Gox bubble.  The circumstances are different, and we may have already gone through a sort of prolonged retracement due to the end of the descending triangle.  It's definitely possible that we won't see the price go under $500 again.  
> 
> Then again, it's possible that we are still in a bear market and this moment of excitement from escaping the triangle will fade.  I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.


I'm trusting my whale buddy on this one that we're about to go up big time.  Early adopters like to move the market based on really good news and apparently there is some good stuff coming that they are timing their trades for.  (I'm guessing Paypal related)

There will be slow accumulation until the end of July.  Minus a few micro whales along the way transferring their bags to the bigger whales.

I'm willing to bet on this and leave the bot off until then.  I will let it run for another week to see what happens though.

I'm personally very excited.  It's time again.

----------


## muh_roads

Although there is something concerning.  There aren't a lot of whales that own LTC.  They believe Scrypt coins will die once Scrypt ASIC's launch.  And more people have bought those than when people were buying BFL 65nm generation.  I was told the great coin consolidation is upon us.  Each new paradigm shift will have a new generation of algorithm competition.

Scrypt will be replaced by X11 coins.

pres, can you fine tune icy for BTC/USD?  I'm a little concerned about LTC/USD not replicating the previous bubble.

----------


## muh_roads

There is a trend flowing that is keeping BTC on top.  And X11 is now the  new algorithm you should be mining with your GPU's.  Darkcoin and  Cryptcoin in particular with their darksend features.

Cryptcoin  is going to add the same features as Darkcoin.  It's not the future, but  there will be a 10-100 fold increase IMO.  DRK already had a large  rise...it may still go to 04, I dunno.  But Crypt is young and most  don't seem to know about it yet.

Just be careful not to sit in anything for too long.

----------


## muh_roads

Again the bot bought the top practically.  11.49

Why did it not detect breakout sooner?  Multiple 2 hour ticks went by and it didn't even make an attempt.

I think I am going to switch to simulated trading and follow it like an advisor instead.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Again the bot bought the top practically.  11.49
> 
> Why did it not detect breakout sooner?  Multiple 2 hour ticks went by and it didn't even make an attempt.
> 
> I think I am going to switch to simulated trading and follow it like an advisor instead.


Check hush.

----------


## presence

**NEW** OPEN SOURCE
https://tradewave.net/strategy/RxOoGbJPFT#




*ICEBERG LIMIT ORDERS v1.0 beta*

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/iceb...presence/142/4





> _# ICEBERG LIMIT ORDERS v1.0 beta
> # litepresence
>  # May 25th 2014
> # **** THIS IS NOT LIVE TESTED AND MAY STILL CONTAIN BUGS ****
> # Reports Holdings and ROI 4X daily# Places 3 limit orders upon signal near the margin.
>   # Maintains about 3 orders on the books at randomized prices, amounts, and timeouts_

----------


## muh_roads

> **NEW** OPEN SOURCE
> https://tradewave.net/strategy/RxOoGbJPFT#
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ICEBERG LIMIT ORDERS v1.0 beta*
> 
> https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/iceb...presence/142/4


Nice dude.  So glad tradewave is finally open for business.

Are you finding it less restrictive than cryptotrader?

----------


## muh_roads

Slowly Converting some BTC into LTC.  It will rise if the USD market pairs continue to tank.

----------


## nayjevin

Hai

----------


## lotsOfCake

I'm waiting for that ltc/btc uptrend that signifies true market reversal :|
Is it being manipulated? LTC just doesn't seem to be delivering...

It could be a "have to contain it while positioning myself" type of market move. 

Market sentiment is; "It might go up but we don't know, better to play safe with BTC or get on another alt coin wave."

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm waiting for that ltc/btc uptrend that signifies true market reversal :|
> Is it being manipulated? LTC just doesn't seem to be delivering...
> 
> It could be a "have to contain it while positioning myself" type of market move. 
> 
> Market sentiment is; "It might go up but we don't know, better to play safe with BTC or get on another alt coin wave."


Whooaahhh...  I think we're a little way off from that phase of the bubble.  We're still in the recovery phase right now.  The ltc/btc ratio doesn't move until the beginning of the actual bubble.  If you'll recall, ltc/btc was .0075 before the last bubble and went up to .05 as btc was starting to skyrocket.  If we even get there, it's still got room to fall.  The btc market could go sideways for a couple of months before the next real bubble.

----------


## lotsOfCake

> Whooaahhh...  I think we're a little way off from that phase of the bubble.  We're still in the recovery phase right now.  The ltc/btc ratio doesn't move until the beginning of the actual bubble.  If you'll recall, ltc/btc was .0075 before the last bubble and went up to .05 as btc was starting to skyrocket.  If we even get there, it's still got room to fall.  The btc market could go sideways for a couple of months before the next real bubble.


yah but last time, there was a bit of a blip in ltc/btc as the market turned from bear to bull.

well i could be wrong; and it could have been just rumor fueled, and not in correlation to the bear/bull turn.

Yeah I'm definitely not suggesting holding LTC for the next few months. I mean it could spike, but it's more likely to generally tank, like last year april->november.

I'm just wondering if I am justified taking risks for a possible "blip" in ltc/btc.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> yah but last time, there was a bit of a blip in ltc/btc as the market turned from bear to bull.
> 
> well i could be wrong; and it could have been just rumor fueled, and not in correlation to the bear/bull turn.
> 
> Yeah I'm definitely not suggesting holding LTC for the next few months. I mean it could spike, but it's more likely to generally tank, like last year april->november.
> 
> I'm just wondering if I am justified taking risks for a possible "blip" in ltc/btc.


Based on recent news, I wouldn't risk it.  Have they mitigated the risk of 51% attack?

----------


## lotsOfCake

> Based on recent news, I wouldn't risk it.  Have they mitigated the risk of 51% attack?


https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
its down to 34% on coinotron, i'd say that's far enough from 51%

also there's the asics, increasing the ltc hashrate. I dont know how that will count, but in theory it increases the security of the ltc network.

Biggest detracting factor is the recent success of DRK, i suppose.

----------


## muh_roads

DRK is taking a huge $#@! today.

Large amounts of coins were hidden in a block and tons of that coin was being transferred to exchanges.  Community made too many forks trying to ignore the large block and exchanges shut down the trading pair.

What a disaster.  lol

----------


## lancien

> HOLY DOGE $#@!!  55


  Hey I read a lot but this is my 1rst post, you see us headed to 55 then rebound?  LTC reboud? Doge follow? thanks

----------


## lotsOfCake

my guess;
money escaping drk through whichever markets are still trading it. they might bug out. people will buy other alts.
other alts include LTC and x11coin (xc). i just hope quark isn't one of the winners from this, i dont like quark.

----------


## muh_roads

Guys, buy BTC.  It's time.  I'll let you know when to switch to LTC.

EDIT: Set descending buy orders.

pres, turn on skype.

----------


## zeMan

> Although there is something concerning.  There aren't a lot of whales that own LTC.  They believe Scrypt coins will die once Scrypt ASIC's launch.  And more people have bought those than when people were buying BFL 65nm generation.  I was told the great coin consolidation is upon us.  Each new paradigm shift will have a new generation of algorithm competition.
> 
> Scrypt will be replaced by X11 coins.
> 
> pres, can you fine tune icy for BTC/USD?  I'm a little concerned about LTC/USD not replicating the previous bubble.


I also would feel more comfortable with a BTC tune... Who is to say LTC will stay number 2?

----------


## nayjevin

> I also would feel more comfortable with a BTC tune... Who is to stay LTC will stay number 2?


I am acting under the assumption that this is a great example of a time when fears are misaligned with reality.  Both 51% problem and potential for altcoin to take over LTC are overblown IMO.  There will be a market for greater anonymity, but it could be of limited value, as most users won't be concerned when wider adoption occurs.  (Most people aren't concerned.)  Also, any necessary user-friendly anonymity solutions may be adequately implemented as a layer on BTC/LTC or clientside.  I don't at all think this is necessarily the best time to buy LTC, but I think the price is reflecting fear that isn't warranted.

Additionally, I don't think a coin necessarily needs to be mineable by average joe to be successful.  There is the potential for centralization in mining being a legitimate threat to the security or adoption of the coin.  But ASIC use isn't in and of itself a problem anymore than Walmart is.

----------


## muh_roads

> I also would feel more comfortable with a BTC tune... Who is to stay LTC will stay number 2?


I don't know.  But during the last bubble LTC sank as low as 0.007 before climbing to 0.05

It will get pumped again.  But now is apparently not the time everyone is saying.

Where is pres?

----------


## nayjevin

> Guys, buy BTC.  It's time.  I'll let you know when to switch to LTC.
> 
> EDIT: Set descending buy orders.
> 
> pres, turn on skype.


I am no expert by a long shot, on trends analysis (hence my simple and conservative strategies).  But when I look at the 12 hour chart on bitcoinwisdom, it looks to me like since our last flat spot May 1-15, which was 400 - 450, we're in a mostly pump bubble, partly a reflection of good news.  Wouldn't we expect a correction to 450-525, and then another flat spot?

----------


## amonasro

I was more bullish up until last night, thinking we might get another leg up. But after watching Huobi test and retest 3600 on relatively low volume I started to doubt. There was just enough buy pressure to keep us there, but no more. And if that runs out, it's correction time to 3000-3300. Also 1D/3D RSI indicates that we are oversold.

Spank Bot sold me out this morning. I guess he agrees. I hope he's right so I can recoup some of the losses.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> Spank Bot sold me out this morning. I guess he agrees. I hope he's right so I can recoup some of the losses.


Yeah, me too; now: -2% ROI on currency, and -6% ROI on LTC.

Currently 100% losing trades: sold what I brought in, between 10.57 and 10.52.  Bought in again between 11.40 and 11.66.  Sold between 11.07 and 11.13.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I was more bullish up until last night, thinking we might get another leg up. But after watching Huobi test and retest 3600 on relatively low volume I started to doubt. There was just enough buy pressure to keep us there, but no more. And if that runs out, it's correction time to 3000-3300. Also 1D/3D RSI indicates that we are oversold.
> 
> Spank Bot sold me out this morning. I guess he agrees. I hope he's right so I can recoup some of the losses.


I think it will hold.  I sold in a dip so now I'm waiting for it to go back down a notch so I can buy and hold.  I'm not going to try to predict the next retracement.  Once I get back in, I'm long.  I'm making a sizable chunk already, so I have a cushion.

----------


## muh_roads

> I am no expert by a long shot, on trends analysis (hence my simple and conservative strategies).  But when I look at the 12 hour chart on bitcoinwisdom, it looks to me like since our last flat spot May 1-15, which was 400 - 450, we're in a mostly pump bubble, partly a reflection of good news.  Wouldn't we expect a correction to 450-525, and then another flat spot?


The thing about whales is they completely $#@! with TA.

----------


## muh_roads

A whale is exiting PPC hard.   They're stacking BTC.

----------


## nayjevin

> The thing about whales is they completely $#@! with TA.


Kinda my position.  Uptrend doesn't match fundamentals, looks like pump.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Kinda my position.  Uptrend doesn't match fundamentals, looks like pump.


A temporary FUD phase IMO, supported by the comments I see here.

----------


## presence

> Nice dude.  So glad tradewave is finally open for business.
> 
> Are you finding it less restrictive than cryptotrader?



I'm loving tradewave.   If I didn't know I was coding online... I wouldn't know I was coding online.  It smooth as a desktop environment.   I've release a TON of open source python this past week to help people get started at TRADEWAVE.

https://discuss.tradewave.net/category/code-examples

iceberg-limit-orders-v1-0-beta-litepresence
directional-movement-dmi-and-adx
candlestick-pattern-recognition-indicators
hilbert-transform
parabolic-sar-extended-version
account-balances-and-roi-module
create-list-of-length-n-from-left-to-right-and-right-to-left
ma-slope-concavity-acceleration-jounce
talib-moving-averages-by-ma-type
bollinger-banded-stochrsi
stoch-rsi-sar/131
ichimoku-cloud
linear-regression
zig-zag-indicator
breakout-indicator
2-5-15-30-turbo-tune
aroon-mfi-vwap-script

----------


## presence

> Guys, buy BTC.  It's time.  I'll let you know when to switch to LTC.
> 
> EDIT: Set descending buy orders.
> 
> pres, turn on skype.



I agree BTC is place to be atm.

I can't skype until I get new computer man... My skype list has 200 ppl in it and crashes this $#@! machine whenever I start up 

zeMan and amanasro have been talking to me in PM about hooking my situation up, so I've been holding off on purchase.

----------


## presence

> Yeah, me too; now: -2% ROI on currency, and -6% ROI on LTC.
> 
> Currently 100% losing trades: sold what I brought in, between 10.57 and 10.52.  Bought in again between 11.40 and 11.66.  Sold between 11.07 and 11.13.



That sucks... sorry to hear.  Pastebin of log output?

----------


## stk

*Darkcoin* showing up on *Bitfinex* Offering margin trading, advanced market order, high rates lending and more

----------


## stk

Here's a link http://bitleaks.net/docs/drk.pdf

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I knew holding was a good idea.  There's no way I could've seen that last break through $600 coming.  Luckily, that's just what I did.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> That sucks... sorry to hear.  Pastebin of log output?


Hi pres,

Can you explain pastebin?  I of course don't want to post it in public as it includes the $ and LTC amounts.

Thanks,
LT

----------


## lotsOfCake

finally, a ltc blip

anyone care to guess where it goes ? 4h macd and 1h ema 10/21 was looking GOOD just then, so i bought in about 25% at 0.01818

risky though, when btc starts climbing again, it will drop.

----------


## lancien

What you think about BTC / LTC? bottom 0.178 ?  Could be because I jsut sell my LTC to BTC ahha

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I've been trying some new predictive analysis lately, and I think I'll take a stab at it.

I predict that the price of BTC will rise into the 660s, find resistance around 667, and subsequently pull back to the low 600s before making new highs.  The top will occur sometime on Monday or Tuesday of next week, but no later than Thursday.

----------


## muh_roads

> What you think about BTC / LTC? bottom 0.178 ?  Could be because I jsut sell my LTC to BTC ahha


Litecoin will continue to fall to $#@! for a while.  I'll let you know what it is time to play it.  It dropped as low as 0.007 as BTC was climbing during the last bubble.  Then LTC shot from 007 to 05.

Bitcoin is king right now.  So far it is slowly climbing to $800 nicely as was the whale plans.

Usually you can't rely on order depth because of all the fake walls.  But they seem to be more real this time.  Watch the gray line that averages the order depth.  It has been quite accurate for the last few weeks or so...

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/btcusd

----------


## lancien

> Litecoin will continue to fall to $#@! for a while.  I'll let you know what it is time to play it.  It dropped as low as 0.007 as BTC was climbing during the last bubble.  Then LTC shot from 007 to 05.  Bitcoin is king right now.  So far it is slowly climbing to $800 nicely as was the whale plans.  Usually you can't rely on order depth because of all the fake walls.  But they seem to be more real this time.  Watch the gray line that averages the order depth.  It has been quite accurate for the last few weeks or so...  https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/btcusd


  Ok thanks for your fast answer, and 1 rst Time I pay attention about this grey line ahah thanks

----------


## muh_roads

> Ok thanks for your fast answer, and 1 rst Time I pay attention about this grey line ahah thanks


012 might be the turn around for LTC.  The BTC/USD market is outpacing LTC/USD which is what causes LTC/BTC to drop.

----------


## xPario

I've noticed that PPC/BTC hasn't been this low since november, would it be wise to buy into that any time soon?

----------


## lotsOfCake

http://imgur.com/G6RfWKx
thoughts ?
(I'm hinting at an initial btc rebound to ~$800 before plateau)

----------


## lotsOfCake

Profit takers incoming!

----------


## muh_roads

> Profit takers incoming!


bear trap

Hope you guys are taking advantage of these dips.

----------


## muh_roads

> I've noticed that PPC/BTC hasn't been this low since november, would it be wise to buy into that any time soon?


long term you can't go wrong with ltc/nmc/ppc

short term I don't know.  things could continually slide there.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've been trying some new predictive analysis lately, and I think I'll take a stab at it.
> 
> I predict that the price of BTC will rise into the 660s, find resistance around 667, and subsequently pull back to the low 600s before making new highs.  The top will occur sometime on Monday or Tuesday of next week, but no later than Thursday.


Not a bad prediction if you ask me.  I just didn't expect it to happen today... or within 3 minutes!

This is a definite bear trap to me.  If I had been prepared, I would have taken my own advice, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've been trying some new predictive analysis lately, and I think I'll take a stab at it.
> 
> I predict that the price of BTC will rise into the 660s, find resistance around 667, and subsequently pull back to the low 600s before making new highs.  The top will occur sometime on Monday or Tuesday of next week, but no later than Thursday.


Not a bad prediction if you ask me.  I just didn't expect it to happen today... or within 3 minutes!

This is a definite bear trap to me.  If I had been prepared, I would have taken my own advice, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

----------


## lotsOfCake

made something like 1% coin count on that so far :1, but scared - maybe there will be some chinese profit takers too. I mean its probably not very risky to hold, but attempting to maximize profits is tricky

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Just noticed that the price on BTC-e reached EXACTLY 667.7




> I've been trying some new predictive analysis lately, and I think I'll take a stab at it.
> 
> I predict that the price of BTC will rise into the 660s, *find resistance around 667, and subsequently pull back to the low 600s* before making new highs.  The top will occur sometime on Monday or Tuesday of next week, but no later than Thursday.

----------


## zeMan

Nice Call!




> Just noticed that the price on BTC-e reached EXACTLY 667.7

----------


## PaulConventionWV

For my next trick:

As I noted before, I thought the drop would have occurred on Monday or Tuesday.  

Instead, I am predicting that we will stay between 600-650 and see another leg up beginning about two weeks from now and stabilize around $800 for the next few weeks.  Sorry, no charts.  I'm still working on that.

----------


## lotsOfCake

PaulConventionWV: good job!

On an entirely different topic;
So i decided to go fact checking about DRK after reading a comment about it on a twitter.

So uh....


Step 1: Check timestamp on block #2 in DRK: http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?2  (block 1 doesn't count, its the genesis block which is a separate function)
That's at 2014-01-19 03:54:46 
Step 2: Check timestamp on block #3000: http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?3000
That's at 2014-01-19 09:10:16
That's just over 5 hours, 3000 blocks, more than 500 coins on average per block. Block #3003 for example, is 6,380 DRK.http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?3004.htm
Less than 3 seconds per block at the start....
By block 6000 it's more normal, 3 minutes ish per block, typical block reward down from 500 to 144.


That's around 1,371,552 DRK in 3.5 hours.
2,018,020.0 DRK in less than two days: http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?5000
Coinmarketcap lists the total number of coins at 4.34 mill. Coinmarketcap.com

TLDR; DRK, The coin currently *third* in marketcap is a massively "fastmined" coin, similarly to a failed coin like YACoin. It's tantamount to premine, 50% of the coin grabbed within a few days.

(Other than that, I think the idea behind the source code is good)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

The last dump was pretty obvious.  I got out at 671 and back in at 636.  Feeling pretty pumped about that.  It triple topped and the upward trendline caught it on the way down just like I thought it would.  That comes to about a 10% retracement, just like it was at about this stage in the last recovery phase.  From here we will see it waffle a bit around where it is now before heading up to $800.

----------


## presence

*TRADEWAVE.NET has backtest DATA!!!!


*https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/para...t-ta-lib/220/5

Also, I released a custom Parabolic SAR indicator which is more stable than TA-lib's version today, see link.

----------


## presence

*BitocoinWisdom adds PRICE ALARMS*

----------


## muh_roads

> *TRADEWAVE.NET has backtest DATA!!!!
> 
> 
> *https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/para...t-ta-lib/220/5
> 
> Also, I released a custom Parabolic SAR indicator which is more stable than TA-lib's version today, see link.


How are you doing?  Haven't seen you in a while...

----------


## presence

> How are you doing?  Haven't seen you in a while...



I'm doing well... largely staying away from social media because its so time raping.  

I'm really focused on teaching myself python this past few weeks; all waking hours.  



Have a look at the open source I've released this past month:

https://discuss.tradewave.net/catego...les/indicators

https://discuss.tradewave.net/catego...les/strategies

----------


## presence

> The last dump was pretty obvious.  I got out at 671 and back in at 636.  Feeling pretty pumped about that.


I've enjoyed watching your trading skillz advance this past year.  Nice job man!

----------


## zeMan

We are still waiting to buy LTC right?

----------


## presence

*Tradewave Rocks! Please forward to interested parties!*






_litepresence

_
*Lets come together and make Tradewave a hub for cloud bot trading!*
_

Super fast backtests
Compiler that gives you meaningful feedback when your code has errors
Dual Y axis plots
Powerful Python mathematics packages
Minimally resource intensive, no RAM leaks
Multiple servers with 99.99% uptime
Works with any browser
Well organized forum
Low trading latency
Keep multiple orders on the books with one script
Trade multiple trading pairs from within one script with access to data from multiple exchanges
Easily access any candle size from within one script
Backtest plots provide accurate time/price data with 'mouse over'_
_Did I mention FREE backtesting and $20/mo live trading with NO EQUITY LIMIT?_
_Tradewave is new on the live trading cloud bot scene with a powerful engine and talented development. I look forward to building some super high quality Python bot scripts in the coming months both open source and commercial. See you there!_
_Please forward to interested parties._
_



Crypto Long, More Coinz Short!_
*
Iceberg Limit Orders
**2-5-15-30 Turbo Tune*
*Fire and Brimstone Channel*
*Aroon MFI VWAP script**Stoch RSI / SAR**Vortex Indicator**Ichimoku Cloud*
*Candlestick Price Transformation*
*Zero Lag EMA (LazyBear)
**Raschke, Ian, and Guppy Oscillators (3 in 1)*
*Std. Dev Zig Zag Channel with Regression Slope
**EMA Differential Correction Code*
*Breakout Indicator
**Linear Regression
**Bollinger Banded StochRSI
**Example of email logging
**MA Slope, Concavity, Acceleration, Jounce
**Hilbert Transform
**Directional Movement DMI and ADX
**Schaff Indicator
**Talib.SAREXT Parabolic SAR Extended Version*
*Zig Zag Indicator*
*Candlestick Pattern Recognition Indicators; ie "dragonfly doji"
**Create list of length=n from left to right and right to left*
*TAlib Moving Averages by MA_Type
**1m Long Wave EMA Cross w/ Bid Size
**Thanasis All Indicators Code
**Know Sure Thing (KST) Oscillator
**Ehlers/Way Zero Lag EMA*
*Derivative Oscillator and Composite Index
**Kaufman AMA Binary Wave
**Hieken Ashi Candlesticks
**Account Balances and ROI module

*

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Okay, well, I guess it's buy-and-hold for me then.  Thanks for _some_ support,  this month's rental is done and I'm down 2% and 9% still, and don't  think I'll be re-renting.  A bit chagrined that you never responded to  describe what you meant me to do with pastebin, but oh well, it's not  like I'm out a lot, and I learned some lessons as well.  And no longer  have access to the log so even if you gave me crystal clear instructions  now, they'd be too late. But hey it's cool you're avoiding social  media, where your customers are...

----------


## nayjevin

Yeah there's not really any analysis here anymore.  Looking at the 12 hour still looks like bubble to me.  One thing I keep reminding myself is that whatever price bitcoin is at, it seems like we'll see that price again someday.

----------


## muh_roads

Can you combine all that into an awesome mega bot?  lol






> *Tradewave Rocks! Please forward to interested parties!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _litepresence
> 
> ...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah there's not really any analysis here anymore.  Looking at the 12 hour still looks like bubble to me.  One thing I keep reminding myself is that whatever price bitcoin is at, it seems like we'll see that price again someday.


Still looks like a bubble?  I highly doubt that.  The most recent uptrend is still quite strong, and we're not likely to simply reverse and drop in the middle of a bull market, especially with all this good news coming out.

----------


## nayjevin

Gawdam paw how many shoulders this thing got???

----------


## muh_roads

We may still not be out of the FUD woods yet.  I'm hearing something about China again but can't get solid info on it.  I also bumped my Bitstamp warning because ppl with large amounts of coin are seeing delays up to 18 hours.

I'd view the current price knock-down as a blessing given the amount of retailers coming online soon.  If you still want to get more in, watch the price today & tomorrow.  It's either the start of FUD or a bottom.

Trade what you feel is best.  Uptrend is strong as Paul said.

----------


## presence

> Contact Us* Required information
> 
> Full Name:litepresence
> Email Address:suckit@yourmothers.ass
> Message:*
> 
> you've been reported to bbb, trustwave, paypal, and www.fbi.gov/scams-safety
> 
> 
> ...





http://coingoo.com


http://www.scamadviser.com/is-coingo...fake-site.html

----------


## presence

> Still looks like a bubble?  I highly doubt that.  The most recent uptrend is still quite strong, and we're not likely to simply reverse and drop in the middle of a bull market, especially with all this good news coming out.



Be cautious.   7/30 12h EMA cross looks very likely short.  I usually hold fiat when that happens for minimum 96 hours.

----------


## zeMan

I'm guessing a drop to 535 on this dump

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Be cautious.   7/30 12h EMA cross looks very likely short.  I usually hold fiat when that happens for minimum 96 hours.


Interesting.  I sold at ~620 before this last major sell-off.  Do you think we are still in a bull market, or has the sentiment shifted?

----------


## presence

> Interesting.  I sold at ~620 before this last major sell-off.  Do you think we are still in a bull market, or has the sentiment shifted?



I think zeman's notion of pullback to 535 is quite reasonable; I was thinking 540 when I last posted.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think zeman's notion of pullback to 535 is quite reasonable; I was thinking 540 when I last posted.


It just seems odd because the pattern seemed to have been imitating that of the recovery before the last bubble pretty well, but this pullback seems bigger than anything we experienced then, in proportion.  I realize things are a bit different this time, but it kind of upsets my notion of what a bull market is supposed to look like.

----------


## muh_roads

Sounds like this is the culprit...

http://www.coindesk.com/18-million-w...al+Currency%29

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Sounds like this is the culprit...
> 
> http://www.coindesk.com/18-million-w...al+Currency%29


That doesn't seem like a very bad thing.  It may temporarily dilute the value, but it's certainly not a problem for bitcoin.  Excited to see what happens after this pullback.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

double post

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Just bounced hard off of 550.  Caught it on the way up.

----------


## zeMan

Damn, I just missed it.

----------


## zeMan

Dump over?

----------


## zeMan

> Dump over?


Guess not...

----------


## zeMan

Nice double bottom. Paul, did you manage to sell at 590 and re-buy at 550? I picked up some at the 2nd 550. For once, BTC-e is higher price than coinbase - good arb opportunity

----------


## presence

> Dump over?



Call me superstitious... but if you're outlook is short, never buy back in until minimum 100 hours after a 7/30 12h cross down. 


Call me crazy... but my bank is in MYR, has been, and will be long looking for a 10X on the horizon.

----------


## muh_roads

> Dump over?


Look at 1w logarithmic, I think ppl are freaking out too much.  Glad ppl are catching the knives though.  Fun.

----------


## zeMan

> Call me superstitious... but if you're outlook is short, never buy back in until minimum 100 hours after a 7/30 12h cross down. 
> 
> 
> Call me crazy... but my bank is in MYR, has been, and will be long looking for a 10X on the horizon.


Look at the 7/30 12 hour cross on October 2nd last year, best time to buy was immediately in that huge dump, 7/30 cross on December 7th, best time to buy back would have been right whenthe lines crossed at the bottom of the dump...

MYR is a great coin, they have an amazing team with great ideas, I hope it goes 10x, but it's emission rate is soooo high, 2.88 million coins per day, the buy pressure just has to be gigantic to sustain it's price. With that said, I mine the crap out of MYR when the difficulty gets low

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Nice double bottom. Paul, did you manage to sell at 590 and re-buy at 550? I picked up some at the 2nd 550. For once, BTC-e is higher price than coinbase - good arb opportunity


Nope.  Props to you for that.  I'm happy if I stay ahead of where I started, and I still am.

----------


## zeMan

> Nope.  Props to you for that.  I'm happy if I stay ahead of where I started, and I still am.


Yeah, I'm trying to get back to where I started lol. I'm almost even now to where I'd be if I had just held all the BTC I've bought over the course of the year... sigh. I think I've been learning though....

Anyway Paul, I can't respond to your message - it says your storage limit has been exceeded. Drop me a note with your email or delete some messages

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah, I'm trying to get back to where I started lol. I'm almost even now to where I'd be if I had just held all the BTC I've bought over the course of the year... sigh. I think I've been learning though....
> 
> Anyway Paul, I can't respond to your message - it says your storage limit has been exceeded. Drop me a note with your email or delete some messages


I don't remember sending you a message...?

Edit: Never mind, I see now.  Just cleared out some space.

----------


## zeMan

> Look at the 7/30 12 hour cross on October 2nd last year, best time to buy was immediately in that huge dump, 7/30 cross on December 7th, best time to buy back would have been right whenthe lines crossed at the bottom of the dump...
> 
> MYR is a great coin, they have an amazing team with great ideas, I hope it goes 10x, but it's emission rate is soooo high, 2.88 million coins per day, the buy pressure just has to be gigantic to sustain it's price. With that said, I mine the crap out of MYR when the difficulty gets low


Aaaand looks like maybe you were right about the 100 hours thing...

----------


## zeMan

Any thoughts on how low this will go?  could we possibly see a panic dump all the way down to 384? Or maybe the 540 was the lowest (if so, remember I called that)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Any thoughts on how low this will go?  could we possibly see a panic dump all the way down to 384? Or maybe the 540 was the lowest (if so, remember I called that)


I think we're bullish now.  I'm pretty confident that long uptrend won't break, and if that is the case, it won't go below 540 again.

----------


## nayjevin

I'd need a pretty compelling reason to believe this isn't a classic head and shoulders.  I'm not betting on it though, too smooth.

I've got a running idea in my head of what the price should be, algebraically.  I'm comfortable slowly recouping losses from purchasing investment advice that way.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'd need a pretty compelling reason to believe this isn't a classic head and shoulders.  I'm not betting on it though, too smooth.
> 
> I've got a running idea in my head of what the price should be, algebraically.  I'm comfortable slowly recouping losses from purchasing investment advice that way.


So first you say it's pretty obviously a head and shoulders, and then you say it's "too smooth"?  I don't get it.

It honestly doesn't look like a head and shoulders, though.

In other news, the 1d 7/30 MAs just crossed, but I don't know what it means.  Any ideas, pres?

----------


## presence

> In other news, the 1d 7/30 MAs just crossed, but I don't know what it means.  Any ideas, pres?

----------


## presence

http://bitcoingirl.wordpress.com/




> *Bitcoin Girl*
> 
> *Wanna go to the Moon? Talk to your friends about cryptocurrencies!*
> 16Jun2014
> *Myriadcoin: Bitcoin Contender?*
> 
> 
> 
> When other coins go for the #2 spot behind Bitcoin and say “lets kill  Litecoin” and be King of the Alts, 
> ...

----------


## nayjevin

> It honestly doesn't look like a head and shoulders, though.

----------


## muh_roads

> http://bitcoingirl.wordpress.com/


Her entire argument is SMS sending when this can be done with any coin on the front end.

https://coinapult.com/

Also, avoid Bryce Phallic.  Dude ripped off a bunch of people on Zetacoin.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Bryce Phallic?  Is that a real name?

----------


## muh_roads

> Bryce Phallic?  Is that a real name?



Close, Bryce Wiener lol

He's a $#@!coin bag transferring jerk.  If you can catch the pumps and dump properly when he flaps his gums you can do well, but day trading that closely aint for me.

----------


## muh_roads

Speaking of bag transfers, check out CryptCoin.  It may actually surpass Darkcoin.  They just got listed on MintPal yesterday where the whales like to play.  Their anon send feature sounds like it will be a new way to handle transfers and not in the tumbling masternode way...

It's the only $#@!coin I'm excited about right now.  twitter is going nuts for it.  #3 in volume on coinmarketcap.  I missed out on Darkcoin last time.  If their anon send is real it could actually go to btc-e.  Darkcoin is still working on their "not-so-interesting" coinjoin ripoff implementation.P

Play at your own risk.  TA on $#@!coins is tough because they are all over the place.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Speaking of bag transfers, check out CryptCoin.


Good times.

----------


## zeMan

Bryce Weiner doesn't seem all that bad, this interview is pretty interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMjrjpCPjpo

----------


## muh_roads

> Bryce Weiner doesn't seem all that bad, this interview is pretty interesting
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMjrjpCPjpo


lol, he's a terrible person.  Trust me I follow these guys.  Him and his buddy @Bitcoin_Sachs spread all sorts of Africa m-pesa adoption lies about Zetacoin.

Watched the video...lol  Oh look he just pimped Zetacoin again.  He holds a big bag if you listen to his presentation a couple months ago.  He wants to cash out.

He's making a killing on bag transferring his $#@!coins.  Unless you are good at trading and can catch the bottoms, be really careful when listening to these people.  He's an intelligent con artist who knows how to code.  What he likes to do is buy a bunch of coins that are cheap with low unsuspecting volume.  He buys slowly overtime then announces he is the "new lead developer" of $#@!coin #439.  It pumps then drops.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

"An intelligent con artist who knows how to code."

----------


## zeMan

BTC dump happening now on coinbase - I'm guessing this could be similar to Oct 2nd last year. Moon rocket soon. It's happening!

Orrrr maybe I'm mistaken...

----------


## Suzu

> BTC dump happening now on coinbase - I'm guessing this could be similar to Oct 2nd last year. Moon rocket soon. It's happening!


I don't understand what you're saying. You seem to be saying that BTC being dumped will send the price "to the moon". Is that what you're saying? If so, what is your reasoning process?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't understand what you're saying. You seem to be saying that BTC being dumped will send the price "to the moon". Is that what you're saying? If so, what is your reasoning process?


Look at October last year.  It sounds strange, but that's exactly what happened.  Of course, it was in response to the infamous Silk Road bust, but I guess history repeats itself.  I personally don't expect to have a big dump this year, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.  Last year's bubble was the only bubble in BTC's history that did that, so I'm not expecting it.

----------


## amonasro

I have to say that I'm impressed with the performance if Icy Spank during the past few months. 

Sometimes it gets whipsawed into making a bad trade, but overall it's done better than I had hoped.

Sold me out last night @ 8.38, will buy back lower

----------


## akanegru

> Look at October last year.  It sounds strange, but that's exactly what happened.  Of course, it was in response to the infamous Silk Road bust, but I guess history repeats itself.  I personally don't expect to have a big dump this year, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.  Last year's bubble was the only bubble in BTC's history that did that, so I'm not expecting it.


It's not gonna happen. I hear that Silk Road is much more carefull these days

----------


## btcltc

I dont think we will go to moon prices again anytime soon. It's frightening to say the least. I mean coins like PPC and NMC are at 1 dollars and PPC is about to breach 0,x. If it does, it might straight out explode?

Anyways, they are clearly being dumped.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I dont think we will go to moon prices again anytime soon. It's frightening to say the least. I mean coins like PPC and NMC are at 1 dollars and PPC is about to breach 0,x. If it does, it might straight out explode?
> 
> Anyways, they are clearly being dumped.


Any reason you believe that or are you just speculating?  Not that there's anything wrong with that, just wondering why you think that.  

The altcoins maybe dead, but that doesn't mean BTC, the original crypto-currency, has to follow their lead.  I, for one, have been paying zero attention to alt coins.  I feel like very few people care about them anymore.

----------


## btcltc

> Any reason you believe that or are you just speculating?  Not that there's anything wrong with that, just wondering why you think that.  
> 
> The altcoins maybe dead, but that doesn't mean BTC, the original crypto-currency, has to follow their lead.  I, for one, have been paying zero attention to alt coins.  I feel like very few people care about them anymore.


I have no idea I just got this feeling. This arent looking good. I bought PPC @ 2.5 dollars and I fear i will never see them again

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I have no idea I just got this feeling. This arent looking good. I bought PPC @ 2.5 dollars and I fear i will never see them again


Sorry to hear that.  Sometimes, though, that sinking feeling happens right when the market reaches a bottom because despair has set in and the market is free from the fear that was fueling the drop.  

Since you are human, you often experience these feelings at the same time as other people do, which is precisely at the point when most people give up and stop driving the price down by panic-selling. 

Be greedy when others are fearful, be fearful when others are greedy.  I see a lot of fear right now.  This makes me hopeful because, despite all this, the price really hasn't declined that much, and yet people are constantly giving doomsday forecasts.

----------


## btcltc

> Sorry to hear that.  Sometimes, though, that sinking feeling happens right when the market reaches a bottom because despair has set in and the market is free from the fear that was fueling the drop.  
> 
> Since you are human, you often experience these feelings at the same time as other people do, which is precisely at the point when most people give up and stop driving the price down by panic-selling. 
> 
> Be greedy when others are fearful, be fearful when others are greedy.  I see a lot of fear right now.  This makes me hopeful because, despite all this, the price really hasn't declined that much, and yet people are constantly giving doomsday forecasts.


Greedy as in I should buy more? I mean the prices are very low now.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Greedy as in I should buy more? I mean the prices are very low now.


Yeah, basically.  I'm not here to give you advice, though.  I might be completely wrong.

----------


## muh_roads

> Greedy as in I should buy more? I mean the prices are very low now.


I keep buying periodically.  Unless a person is a really good trader, people are going to look back on this and feel pretty silly caring about $30 swings after the next bubble.

----------


## fatjohn

Ssssshhh... Do you hear that?

It's so quiet before the storm isn't it?

----------


## muh_roads

The BitLicense FUD has been somewhat relentless on the inside.  If you want to go entirely by charting, something needs to happen soon or it may be a boring sideways period for another year yet like the period from 2011-2012.

Too much stuff in the pipeline for me to believe the latter...but anything is possible...

----------


## Dianne

I turned tv on late this afternoon, and streaming across the FOX news channel was:   Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will now begin accepting complaints about Bitcoin and other similar exchanges, which are not backed by the Government.    So it appears in my view, the Feds are going to go after and shut down bitcoin exchanges, when actually they probably want all the btc.   They may have caused the FUD.

----------


## presence

def update_external_data(): 

         storage.trollbox = storage.get('trollbox', [])     
storage.trollbox = get_text*('http://trollboxarchive.com/')     * 

def tick():

          if info.tick == 0: 

                 litecoin = storage.trollbox.count('litecoin') 
        bitcoin = storage.trollbox.count('bitcoin')         
LTC = storage.trollbox.count('LTC') 
        BTC = storage.trollbox.count('BTC')           
moon = storage.trollbox.count('moon')         
crash = storage.trollbox.count('crash')

                  log('bitcoin: %s' % bitcoin) 
        log('litecoin: %s' % litecoin)            
log('BTC: %s' % BTC)         
log('LTC: %s' % LTC)
             log('moon: %s' % moon) 
        log('crash: %s' % crash)                









Waiting... Saved successfully. 
[2014-04-01 13:00:00] bitcoin: 5
 [2014-04-01 13:00:00] litecoin: 2
 [2014-04-01 13:00:00] BTC: 5 
[2014-04-01 13:00:00] LTC: 13 
[2014-04-01 13:00:00] moon: 2 
[2014-04-01 13:00:00] crash: 3


https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/exte...strategies/317

----------


## presence

Fourier Analysis
v2.11 with commentary

INSTRUMENT      = pairs.btc_usd
FOURIER_LOG     = False
FOURIER_PLOT    = True
AGGREGATION     = 3600
PERIOD          = 30
SIFT            = 5 # integer from 1 to PERIOD/2

# manifest a definition of FFT with 5 arguements
def fourier_series(array, period, sift, fourier_log, fourier_plot):
    import math
    import numpy as np

    # Create an array of length period of closing data; then reverse its order
    signal          = (array[-period:])[::-1]  

    # Use scipy to extract amplitude and phase in (a + bi) complex form
    complex_fft     = np.fft.fft(signal)

    ''' Calculate amplitude, phase, frequency, and velocity '''
    # define empty lists for later use
    amplitude       = []
    phase           = []
    frequency       = []
    velocity        = []

    # extract real and imaginary coefficients from complex scipy output
    for n in range(period, 0, -1):   
        amplitude.append(complex_fft.real[-n])
        phase.append(complex_fft.imag[-n])

    # The final equation will need to be divided by period
    # I do it here so that it is calculated once saving cycles     
    amplitude = [(x/period) for x in amplitude]    

    # Extract the carrier
    carrier = max(amplitude)

    # The frecuency is a helper function of scipy fft see
    # It only has access to the length of the data set
    frequency.append(np.fft.fftfreq(signal.size, 1))

    # Convert frequency array to list
    frequency       = frequency[-1]

    # Velocity is just 2*pi*frequency; I do this here once to save cycle time    
    velocity        = [x*2*math.pi for x in frequency]

    ''' Calculate the Full Spectrum Sinusoid '''
    # Here we recombine ALL elements in the form An*sin(2*pi(Fn) + Pn) for the full spectrum
    full_spectrum   = 0
    for m in range(1, period+1):
        full_spectrum += amplitude[-m]*(1+math.sin(velocity[-m] + phase[-m]))

    ''' Calculate the Filtered Sinusoid '''
    # Normalize user sift input as an integer
    sift = int(sift)

    # If sift is more than half of the period return full spectrum
    if sift >= period/2:
        filtered_transform = full_spectrum

    # If sift is 0 or 1 return the carrier    
    else:
        filtered_transform = carrier

        # For every whole number of sift over 1, but less than half the period: 
        # Add an 2 elements to the sinusoid respective of 
        # a negative and positive frequency pair
        if sift > 1:
            for m in range(1, sift): 
                p = period - m
                filtered_transform += amplitude[-m]*(1+math.sin(velocity[-m] + phase[-m]))
                filtered_transform += amplitude[-p]*(1+math.sin(velocity[-p] + phase[-p]))

    # Format array data and log
    if fourier_log:
        log('**********************************')
        log('Carrier: %.3f' % amplitude[-period])
        log(['%.2f' % x for x in amplitude])    
        log(['%.2f' % x for x in velocity]) 
        log(['%.2f' % x for x in phase])

    # Plot the carrier wave and full spectrum sinusoid
    if fourier_plot:
        plot('Carrier', carrier)
        plot('Full_spectrum', full_spectrum)

    # Return the sifted FFT
    return filtered_transform

def tick():

    close   = data(interval=AGGREGATION)[INSTRUMENT].warmup_period('close') 

    # Call FFT definition
    y       = fourier_series(close, PERIOD, SIFT, FOURIER_LOG, FOURIER_PLOT)

    # Plot the filtered transform
    plot('Filtered_transform', y)

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/scip...nalysis/270/20

----------


## presence

Parabolic SAR v5.0

    Hashed Custom Namespace

import time

PAIR                        = pairs.btc_usd
SAR_PLOT                    = True  # False turns off SAR plot
SAR_AGGREGATION             = 3600  # Match to tick = no auto adjust  
SAR_SENSITIVITY             = 1     # whole, default 2
SAR_RISE_LOOKBACK           = 0     # 0 = MAX, else whole # period
SAR_RISE_INITIAL            = 0.02  # Inital Rising Acceleration
SAR_RISE_ACCELERATION       = 0.02  # Rising Acceleration
SAR_RISE_MAX                = 0.2   # Maximum Rising Acceleration
SAR_FALL_LOOKBACK           = 0     # 0 = MAX, else whole # period
SAR_FALL_INITIAL            = 0.02  # Initial Falling Acceleration
SAR_FALL_ACCELERATION       = 0.02  # Falling Acceleration
SAR_FALL_MAX                = 0.2   # Maximum Falling Acceleration

def parabolic_sar(pair, sar_plot, aggregation, sensitivity,
rise_lookback, rise_initial, rise_acceleration, rise_max,
fall_lookback, fall_initial, fall_acceleration, fall_max):

    import time
    import math    

    start_time = time.time()

    ''' Seed psuedo random 24 character hash string '''
    fall_hash = 2**(1/2.0)*fall_max + 3**(1/2.0)*fall_acceleration + 5**(1/2.0)*(fall_initial+1)
    rise_hash = 2**(1/3.0)*rise_max + 3**(1/3.0)*rise_acceleration + 5**(1/3.0)*(rise_initial+1)
    lookback_hash = 2**(1/2.0)*fall_lookback + 3**(1/2.0)*rise_lookback + 5**(1/2.0)*sensitivity
    pair_agg_hash = int(10**25*pair**(1/2.0) / aggregation**(1/2.0))
    sar_hash = str(int(10**25*Decimal((fall_hash+lookback_hash)/rise_hash))+pair_agg_hash)[-24:] 

    ''' Initialize Stored Variables '''    
    extreme_point           = 'parabolic_sar_extreme_point_'+sar_hash
    acceleration            = 'parabolic_sar_acceleration_'+sar_hash
    direction               = 'parabolic_sar_direction_'+sar_hash
    previous                = 'parabolic_sar_previous_'+sar_hash
    storage[extreme_point]  = storage.get(extreme_point, 0)
    storage[acceleration]   = storage.get(acceleration, 0)
    storage[direction]      = storage.get(direction, 0)     
    storage[previous]       = storage.get(previous, 0)  


    ''' Auto Adjust Thresholds Based on Aggregation '''
    power                   = 1.235  # Bigger reduces SAR crosses
    aggregation_ratio       = aggregation/float(info.interval)
    power_ratio             = aggregation_ratio**power

    sensitivity             = int(math.ceil(sensitivity))
    rise_lookback           = int(rise_lookback*aggregation_ratio)
    rise_initial            = rise_initial/power_ratio
    rise_acceleration       = rise_acceleration/power_ratio
    rise_max                = rise_max*aggregation_ratio
    fall_lookback           = int(fall_lookback*aggregation_ratio)
    fall_initial            = fall_initial/power_ratio
    fall_acceleration       = fall_acceleration/power_ratio
    fall_max                = fall_max*aggregation_ratio

    ''' Prevent Rattle on 1m ticks '''
    offset                  = 0
    if info.interval == 60:
        fall_initial        = 0
        rise_initial        = 0
        offset              = 0.002

    ''' Log Adjusted Thresholds and persistent variable names on 1st tick '''
    if 1:
        if info.tick == 0:
            log('storage.' + extreme_point)
            log('storage.' + acceleration)
            log('storage.' + direction)
            log('storage.' + previous)        
            log('tick size....: %s' % info.interval)
            log('aggregation..: %s' % aggregation)        
            log('agg_ratio....: %s' % aggregation_ratio)
            log('power........: %s' % power)
            log('power_ratio..: %.2f' % power_ratio)
            log('sensitivity..: %s' % sensitivity)
            log('rise_lookback: %s' % rise_lookback)
            log('rise_initial.: %s' % rise_initial)
            log('rise_accel...: %s' % rise_acceleration)
            log('rise_max.....: %s' % rise_max)
            log('fall_lookback: %s' % fall_lookback)
            log('fall_initial.: %s' % fall_initial)
            log('fall_accel...: %s' % fall_acceleration)
            log('fall_max.....: %s' % fall_max)
            log('offset.......: %s' % offset)

    '''  High, Low, and Close '''    
    high    = data(interval=aggregation)[pair].period(2, 'high') 
    low     = data(interval=aggregation)[pair].period(2, 'low')     
    close   = data(interval=aggregation)[pair].period(2, 'close') 

    ''' Build array of candles to look for SAR cross '''
    low_array   = []
    high_array  = []
    for z in range(sensitivity, 0, -1):
        low_array.append(low[-z])
        high_array.append(high[-z])

    ''' Determine if inital SAR is Rising or Falling '''        
    if info.tick == 0:        
        if close[-1] > close[-2]:
            storage[direction]       = 1
            storage[previous]        = low[-2]
            storage[extreme_point]   = max(high_array)
            storage[acceleration]    = rise_initial
        else:            
            storage[direction]       = -1
            storage[previous]        = high[-2]
            storage[extreme_point]   = min(low_array)
            storage[acceleration]    = -fall_initial   

    ''' Calculate Rising SAR '''
    # Define New SAR            
    if storage[direction] == 1:            
        sar = storage[previous] + storage[acceleration]*(
            storage[extreme_point] - storage[previous]) 
        # Update acceleration factor if EP is breached        
        if high[-1] > storage[extreme_point]:
            storage[extreme_point] = high[-1]
            storage[acceleration] = storage[acceleration] + rise_acceleration
            if storage[acceleration] > rise_max:
                storage[acceleration] = rise_max   
        # Define lookback price based on period        
        if fall_lookback == 0: 
            lookback = storage[extreme_point]
        else:
            lookback = []    
            for z in range(fall_lookback):
                lookback.append(high[-(z+1)])
            lookback = max(lookback)
            lookback = min(lookback, storage[extreme_point])
        # If new SAR cross, then Stop and Reverse
        if min(low_array) < sar:
            storage[direction] = -2
            storage[acceleration] = -fall_initial
            sar = lookback * float(1 + offset)   
            log('***** SAR CROSS *****')        

    ''' Calculate Falling SAR '''
    # Define New SAR       
    if storage[direction] == -1:        
        sar = storage[previous] + storage[acceleration]*(
            storage[previous] - storage[extreme_point])   
        # note storage.AF is negative in this instance  
        # Update acceleration factor if EP is breached  
        if low[-1] < storage[extreme_point]:
            storage[extreme_point] = low[-1]
            storage[acceleration] = storage[acceleration] - fall_acceleration 
            if storage[acceleration] < -fall_max:
                storage[acceleration] = -fall_max
        # Define lookback price based on period     
        if rise_lookback  == 0: 
            lookback = storage[extreme_point]
        else:
            lookback = []    
            for z in range(rise_lookback):
                lookback.append(L[-(z+1)])
            lookback = min(lookback)
            lookback = max(lookback, storage[extreme_point])  
        # If new SAR cross, then Stop and Reverse
        if max(high_array) > sar:
            storage[direction] = 1
            storage[acceleration] = rise_initial 
            sar = lookback * float(1 - offset)
            log('***** SAR CROSS *****')        

    ''' Update Direction and Prior SAR '''
    if storage[direction] == -2:
        storage[direction] = -1
    storage[previous] = sar  

    ''' Plot Parabolic SAR '''
    if sar_plot:
        plot('low', low[-1])
        plot('high', high[-1]) 
        plot('Parabolic_SAR', sar)

    ''' Log Tick Time ''' 
    finish_time = time.time()
    tick_time = round((finish_time - start_time), 5)
    #log(tick_time)

    return sar    


def tick():

    if info.tick == 0:
        storage.begin_time = time.time()

    z = parabolic_sar(PAIR, SAR_PLOT, SAR_AGGREGATION, SAR_SENSITIVITY,
        SAR_RISE_LOOKBACK, SAR_RISE_INITIAL, SAR_RISE_ACCELERATION, SAR_RISE_MAX,
        SAR_FALL_LOOKBACK, SAR_FALL_INITIAL, SAR_FALL_ACCELERATION, SAR_FALL_MAX)


    #log(('Parabolic SAR: %.2f') % z)

''' Log Total Backtest Time '''    
def stop():

    end_time = time.time()
    run_time = float(end_time - storage.begin_time)
    log('Total Run Time: %.2f' % run_time)

    '''
    RISING SAR

    Prior SAR:  The SAR value for the previous period. 
    Extreme Point:  The highest high of the current uptrend. 
    Acceleration Factor:  Starting at .02, AF increases by .02 each 
        time the extreme point makes a new high. AF can reach a maximum 
        of .20, no matter how long the uptrend extends. 

    Current RISING SAR = Prior SAR + Prior AF(Prior EP - Prior SAR)

    The Acceleration Factor is multiplied by the difference between the 
    Extreme Point and the prior period's SAR. This is then added to the 
    prior period's SAR. Note however that Rising SAR can never be above the
    prior two periods' lows. Should SAR be above one of those lows, use
    the lowest of the two for SAR. 

    FALLING SAR

    Prior SAR:  The SAR value for the previous period. 
    Extreme Point:  The lowest low of the current downtrend. 
    Acceleration Factor (AF): Starting at .02, AF increases by .02 each 
        time the extreme point makes a new low. AF can reach a maximum
        of .20, no matter how long the downtrend extends. 

    Current FALLING SAR = Prior SAR - Prior AF(Prior SAR - Prior EP)

    The Acceleration Factor is multiplied by the difference between the 
    Prior period's SAR and the Extreme Point. This is then subtracted 
    from the prior period's SAR. Note however that Falling SAR can never be
    below the prior two periods' highs. Should SAR be below one of
    those highs, use the highest of the two for SAR. 
    '''

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/para...-ta-lib/220/45

----------


## btcltc

Damnit altcoins dropping rapidly. PPC at 0,8, I wonder how much it can fall. Maybe 0,1??

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Parabolic SAR v5.0
> 
>     Hashed Custom Namespace
> 
> import time
> 
> PAIR                        = pairs.btc_usd
> SAR_PLOT                    = True  # False turns off SAR plot
> SAR_AGGREGATION             = 3600  # Match to tick = no auto adjust  
> ...


Could you clarify some of that?  Is there a main bullet point to all of that?

----------


## muh_roads

> So it appears in my view, the Feds are going to go after and shut down bitcoin exchanges, when actually they probably want all the btc.


If they wanted "all teh BTC", they wouldn't have auctioned off the SR spoils.

There are too many people in the financial sector involved now to just sit and take it like that.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The BitLicense FUD has been somewhat relentless on the inside.  If you want to go entirely by charting, something needs to happen soon or it may be a boring sideways period for another year yet like the period from 2011-2012.
> 
> Too much stuff in the pipeline for me to believe the latter...but anything is possible...


I wouldn't call 2011-2012 "sideways".  It was the middle of a large bubble pop and took a while to make a new ATH, if that's what you mean, but I don't know if we can really compare those two because of the different circumstances now.  

What kind of "stuff in the pipeline" do you see that makes you optimistic, if I may ask?

----------


## presence

> Could you clarify some of that?  Is there a main bullet point to all of that?


That's open source python script which can be used to calculate Parabolic SAR at tradewave.net (or other python platform).   The definition is reusable and, as sar requires multiple stored objects, the definition automatically builds non conflicting 24 character persistent stored object names using a custom hash function so that variable names do not overlap as you reuse the definition multilpe times in one script.    So  you could calculate a sar on 12h sticks and a sar on 1m sticks in the same script for example.  


Also, if you read through the link in the thread... you'll find that my custom SAR is much more accurate and tunable than TA-lib.    Here is an image of the TA-lib calculation failing:




SAR should fall until it intersects the high price... then stop and reverse... then rise until it intersects the low price... then stop and reverse.  The TA-lib library used at sites like cryptotrader.org is a black box version of this calculation that lacks any sense of "support" and updates; there are bugs and it often fails.  This, among other reasons, is why I've stopped development at cryptotrader and have been focusing on raw python bots at tradewave.net.


I brought this issue with TA-lib up on the forum at cryptotrader, I was told it was my own fault and I was using it wrong.  Cryptotrader does not offer enough stored object space to recreate SAR in a custom sense.   As I pushed the issue I was banned from the forum.   Having brought the issue up at tradewave, the owner is looking to implement my SAR calculation in replacement of the default TA-lib calculation in coming weeks.    It is apparent that my calculation is correct and TA-lib is simply wrong.  If you had been trading on the TA-lib signal in the piture above you would have bought and sold randomly about a dozen times over 10 days  due to the TA-lib bug I uncovered, when you should have only made 2 trades.  


The next script which begins with:

def update_external_data():

is a new feature at tradewave.   I'm now able to access data from external HTTP sources; like trollboxarchive.com.   Essentially this gives me the means to analyze things like how often is someone saying "LTC to da moon" in the trollbox.  

Another advantage, I can also build external API log files, then later retrieve data from those logs.   So I can in effect build a low frequency bot which trades on 2h candles... while another bot that does nothing but "iceberg order" waits for an HTTP log file signal from that bot to begin ordering on 1m scale.


The other script regarding "fourier analysis":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_analysis

Fourier is a means to reconstruct a stochastic process using a sine wave function.  You can then filter out high frequency elements of the wave to smooth the signal.  The result is line similar to a MA; but one which projects into the future.

Another recent development I've released which projects into the future is polynomial regression:

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/scip...regression/268

----------


## muh_roads

> I wouldn't call 2011-2012 "sideways".  It was the middle of a large bubble pop and took a while to make a new ATH, if that's what you mean, but I don't know if we can really compare those two because of the different circumstances now.


Yeah I wasn't very clear.

2011 BTC did the same slow tumble for many months.  Then things sorta bounced around for a $12 average for most of 2012 if I recall.  If that were to happen to BTC, then 2015 is when things would shoot again.  Circumstances are way different now though, I agree.




> What kind of "stuff in the pipeline" do you see that makes you optimistic, if I may ask?


Retailers, Paypal, ETF's, emerging markets.

The biggest enemy to BTC I think is the Bitcoin Foundation itself.  They are being super quiet when things were supposed to have been announced by now.  Bitpay & Coinbase are going right along with whatever they say since they sort of are a main part of the "Foundation" themselves.

----------


## muh_roads

pres,

Mind doing some charts again?  Was 540 a fib line that might be a problem now that it was broken?

----------


## presence

> pres,
> 
> Mind doing some charts again?  Was 540 a fib line that might be a problem now that it was broken?



On a "7 month cycle" level... that 1w chart looks golden.  I'm in cold storage.

----------


## fatjohn

Bullish, i enlarged my holdings with 15-20% today  let's go.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Any ideas on what the bottom will be?

This decline really seems quite fickle because there was no bad news.  Is it already done going down?

----------


## nayjevin

just the continuation of the correction.  previous levels were absurdity based upon 'news' of merchant adoption.  now correct to the reality of how many new bitcoiners (demand) merchant adoption creates and speculator sells to wait for bottom.

----------


## muh_roads

> On a "7 month cycle" level... that 1w chart looks golden.  I'm in cold storage.


I have to agree with you.  I think we're entering that despair part of the chart before the rebound.  It appears to be a shakeout.

----------


## muh_roads

> Any ideas on what the bottom will be?
> 
> This decline really seems quite fickle because there was no bad news.  Is it already done going down?


Fib lines indicate 480 could be the next stop according to others...or it could never reach that and bounce any time.

----------


## newbitech

looking at bitstamp chart

keep an eye on the weekly RSI, this thing has NEVER been oversold.  I'd be looking for a break of the low RSI (not price) established on the week of april 6 2014.

Watch how the RSI on the weekly interacts around the 42-43 level.  if that breaks, I believe the RSI will dip below 30 for the first time.  

We have once again increasing volume into price weakness.  

Looking at the daily RSI, We are seeing the RSI H&S pattern being confirmed and the daily could ride below the oversold level for some time as the longer term strength indicator begins to assert itself with a reversion to the mean.  

The day trade patterns on the 4 hour 1 hour and 15 minutes chart paint a grim picture of large chunks of the asset being dumped at any moment.  It would be difficult to be long in the short term on these movements.  

As for buying opportunities, there looks to be some token support in the 420-450 range, but volume at those levels indicates more exhaustion in the sell off rather than any kind of conviction buying.  

The price indicator at this point is the weakest indicator due to the fact that the bubble did not allow the price to be established in the range from 200-900.  The bubble did find some support at the 600-900 range after collapsing, however that range has failed several large volume upward tests.

To reiterate, the weekly RSI has never been oversold.   I'll be looking for buying opportunities after the weekly RSI rebounds either off the 42ish level or after it takes a trip into oversold territory.  Whatever the price may be.

I'm calling for at the least a retest of the closing low of 416, week of April 6.  Failing that retest, and I think there are is a 50/50 chance that happens, the next level is 260ish the coming out party high.  It will depend on how long the RSI stays oversold after 416 support collapse.  

The best case for people looking to make a sound long term investment (in terms of risk/rewards) is to pick up in the range of 260-416.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Fib lines indicate 480 could be the next stop according to others...or it could never reach that and bounce any time.


The fact that it didn't bounce at 500 and is crawling along support indicates that there is more downside, possibly to 450.  After that, who knows.  It could be the final capitulation point, but if it's not, then we're in for a crisis.

Not saying that's likely.  I really don't know, but 440-450 are definitely possibly support areas that could push the price in the other direction.

----------


## muh_roads

> The fact that it didn't bounce at 500 and is crawling along support indicates that there is more downside, possibly to 450.  After that, who knows.  It could be the final capitulation point, but if it's not, then we're in for a crisis.
> 
> Not saying that's likely.  I really don't know, but 440-450 are definitely possibly support areas that could push the price in the other direction.


I didn't make this chart.  I was told the 61.8 line could be tested...

----------


## muh_roads

> As for buying opportunities, there looks to be some token support in the 420-450 range, but volume at those levels indicates more exhaustion in the sell off rather than any kind of conviction buying.


How do you know what volume will be before we get there?

Also check this guy out again.  He's talking about that 61.8 fib line as well...

https://www.tradingview.com/v/HM51GS...llower_comment

----------


## newbitech

> How do you know what volume will be before we get there?
> 
> Also check this guy out again.  He's talking about that 61.8 fib line as well...
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/HM51GS...llower_comment


I was talking about the volume at support.  

He is using intraday highs and lows on the daily moves for his fib study, which is fine.  

On the weekly close, we are sitting on the 61.8 retrace for the weekly closes right now at 508, and has been tested already.  Your thin volume green candle on the week of 4/13 is the last support level range between the open/close for that week from my analysis 416-500.

----------


## muh_roads

There is suspicion right now that the Ethereum developers are causing this drop.  They raised 30K of BTC so far and that is close to the volume currently.

But people don't care about conspiracy.  Just numbers.  So if all targets are busted thru in the 400 range, the double-bottom reverses around 342 according to our group chart fegs.

Long story short...we are either close to the bottom now, or the next number we hit is 425.  After that will be 350 range.

----------


## amonasro

The selling has slowed a bit, leaving the market reeling, oversold and catching its breath. While I think $450 is possible I wouldn't set buy orders that low. I saw a market sell for 1000btc on Bitfinex yesterday. _One thousand_ bitcoins at once. Why in god's name would you sell that many with one click--it would tear through the orderbook like a hot knife through butter.

Regardless we don't really know the reasons people sell... Fundamentals are better than ever so I wouldn't be surprised at a strong bounce.

----------


## newbitech

> The selling has slowed a bit, leaving the market reeling, oversold and catching its breath. While I think $450 is possible I wouldn't set buy orders that low. I saw a market sell for 1000btc on Bitfinex yesterday. _One thousand_ bitcoins at once. Why in god's name would you sell that many with one click--it would tear through the orderbook like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Regardless we don't really know the reasons people sell... Fundamentals are better than ever so I wouldn't be surprised at a strong bounce.


What is your time scale?  I ask because on the weekly time scale, selling has been ramping up week over week for the past month month and a half.  Volume overall hasn't been that impressive since spring, and I get the sense that a sell off is just getting underway.

Technically, we haven't seen buying volume outpace selling volume as a trend since the start of this last bubble.  There was a very low volume impasse at the end of the bottom of the bear move off the bubble, and then what appears to be a head fake move off that bottom of the triangle. 

As far as oversold on the daily rsi, i had mentioned a couple days ago that the daily RSI may ride below the oversold level as the longer term (weekly) strength indicator asserts its influence with a reversion to the mean.  We see the daily RSI riding below the oversold territory for several days now.  Short term trends are always going to be found within longer term trends.  In this case, daily RSI is within the context of weekly RSI.  Here is a nice link explaining some guidelines for technical trading.  http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...hnical_trading




> #1 ... Even if you only trade the very short term, you will do better if you're trading in the same direction as the intermediate and longer term trends.


As far as dropping 1000 BTC at once, consider the same works in the opposite direction.  IF someone thought that BTC was going to $100,000, (and had the money to spend),  it would be easy to rationalize buying 1000 BTC at once from the price range of $300 - $600.

On the flip side, someone who is in at an average price of $400 and expects the price to dip below that level would be cutting their losses by dumping at $450, even if it drives the price below $400 in the sell.  

Assuming that the person who made the trade isn't throwing their money away, it is likely those 1000 BTC sell is creating a nice profit for someone who had the opportunity to obtain those BTC for much less than $450, so while they didn't maximize their profit by doing several small sells, they did cash out of their position without losing.  The motivation would be 1.) don't lose capital, 2.) lock in profit, 3.) capital divestment

I also believe there will be a bounce, but a technical bounce.  Honestly I don't think there are any trend busting fundamentals being reported.  I am not an insider obviously, but the news I am hearing isn't that inspiring.  For instance, where are the articles about the uptick in small transactions that would indicate broad consumer adoption?  We are still hearing about merchant adoption and that quite honestly is going a tepid pace.  I have to believe that merchants are weary of implementing the technology if the evidence of consumer adoption is not that impressive.  

Not trying to sound negative nancy about it, I just don't see the fundamentals really driving this trade.  

here is your 1 year total transaction chart per blockchain.info

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-tra...ale=0&address=

Its pretty flat.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/08/...ype=blogs&_r=0

and this is also interesting.

Margin calls and short selling.

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/...ion-goes-live/

----------


## presence

Damn ass dropped out of that.  I'm not watching the crypto markets like I used to.  Too much on my plate atm.  I do read along here though, thanks for keeping me posted

----------


## amonasro

> What is your time scale?  I ask because on the weekly time scale, selling has been ramping up week over week for the past month month and a half.  Volume overall hasn't been that impressive since spring, and I get the sense that a sell off is just getting underway.
> 
> Technically, we haven't seen buying volume outpace selling volume as a trend since the start of this last bubble.  There was a very low volume impasse at the end of the bottom of the bear move off the bubble, and then what appears to be a head fake move off that bottom of the triangle. 
> 
> As far as oversold on the daily rsi, i had mentioned a couple days ago that the daily RSI may ride below the oversold level as the longer term (weekly) strength indicator asserts its influence with a reversion to the mean.  We see the daily RSI riding below the oversold territory for several days now.  Short term trends are always going to be found within longer term trends.  In this case, daily RSI is within the context of weekly RSI.  Here is a nice link explaining some guidelines for technical trading.  http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...hnical_trading
> 
> 
> 
> As far as dropping 1000 BTC at once, consider the same works in the opposite direction.  IF someone thought that BTC was going to $100,000, (and had the money to spend),  it would be easy to rationalize buying 1000 BTC at once from the price range of $300 - $600.
> ...


When I analyze a chart I look close at 15m then "zoom out" until I look at the daily and weekly. It helps me put together a better picture. I also look at LTC markets as it reacts to BTC markets in fairly predictable ways. So for the next few weeks I agree with you that there should be a technical bounce--the bears only have so much ammo at this point and it's starting to run out; also the drop wasn't precipitated by anything too negative, just uncertainty. No China fud, no bans.

Looking toward the end of the year though, I don't see a big fundamental reason for a drawback to $300 or even $400. We were already there recently after a longer, more painful capitulation and still the buying pressure was immense. As an active member of the community (not really an "insider" though, haha) I can tell you with pretty good certainty there will be many waiting with fiat should we drop to $400 again, including myself.

Technically a weekly view shows that the long-term continuation pattern is still holding and even clinging to the top edge of the pennant, meaning we should still resume Bitcoin's meteoric uptrend at some point. Volume is supposed to trail off during continuation patterns anyway I would say it's bullish. Bitcoin has simply come too far to suddenly bottom out for no reason, or a dubious reason. Governments banning the hell out of it? Maybe. Flaw in the protocol? Definitely. A payment unit of Ebay looking into ways to accept it? Definitely NOT:

http://time.com/money/3116974/uber-a...ccept-bitcoin/

As far as margin calls, I would say there has been a bit of margin head hunting going on, meaning traders know that unskilled speculators (ahem, gamblers looking to make a quick buck without a broader understanding of digital currencies) are all leveraged long for a rise to $800 (not a smart move) and those with big coin stashes see the window for accumulation closing and take advantage. The hedge funds/ETFs trying to buy off-market also see this. Bitfinex recently changed there rules so one cannot go past 3:1, I think it is. 

For transactions being flat, simply zoom out the chart. Adoption doesn't have to correlate to transaction volume. I also don't see a reason to penalize those who want to use Bitcoin as a store of wealth.

Also, the chief analyst at stockcharts.com, John Murphy, has a book that's honestly better than anything on trading sites today: Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets. Highly recommended... there are so many helpful little things that you don't get from simply reading about indicators from a list.

----------


## newbitech

> When I analyze a chart I look close at 15m then "zoom out" until I look at the daily and weekly. It helps me put together a better picture. I also look at LTC markets as it reacts to BTC markets in fairly predictable ways. So for the next few weeks I agree with you that there should be a technical bounce--the bears only have so much ammo at this point and it's starting to run out; also the drop wasn't precipitated by anything too negative, just uncertainty. No China fud, no bans.
> 
> Looking toward the end of the year though, I don't see a big fundamental reason for a drawback to $300 or even $400. We were already there recently after a longer, more painful capitulation and still the buying pressure was immense. As an active member of the community (not really an "insider" though, haha) I can tell you with pretty good certainty there will be many waiting with fiat should we drop to $400 again, including myself.
> 
> Technically a weekly view shows that the long-term continuation pattern is still holding and even clinging to the top edge of the pennant, meaning we should still resume Bitcoin's meteoric uptrend at some point. Volume is supposed to trail off during continuation patterns anyway I would say it's bullish. Bitcoin has simply come too far to suddenly bottom out for no reason, or a dubious reason. Governments banning the hell out of it? Maybe. Flaw in the protocol? Definitely. A payment unit of Ebay looking into ways to accept it? Definitely NOT:
> 
> http://time.com/money/3116974/uber-a...ccept-bitcoin/
> 
> As far as margin calls, I would say there has been a bit of margin head hunting going on, meaning traders know that unskilled speculators (ahem, gamblers looking to make a quick buck without a broader understanding of digital currencies) are all leveraged long for a rise to $800 (not a smart move) and those with big coin stashes see the window for accumulation closing and take advantage. The hedge funds/ETFs trying to buy off-market also see this. Bitfinex recently changed there rules so one cannot go past 3:1, I think it is. 
> ...



I see,

well the link I posted is, 

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...hnical_trading




> *John Murphy's Ten Laws of Technical Trading*


You mentioned "When I analyze a chart I look close at 15m then "zoom out" until I look at the daily and weekly. It helps me put together a better picture."

that contradicts the first law of analysis from John Murphy, 

Map the Trends  

...Begin a chart analysis with monthly and weekly charts spanning several years...

I mean ultimately the goal is to make profitable trades, so however you come to that conclusion is not really the important thing.  Thank you for explaining a bit more about your view on analysis tho.  I don't want to come across as argumentative, just want to share my perspective.   

Speaking of fundamentals, I think perhaps the only fundamental that would maybe support the massive bubble and parabolic up move was the idea of artificial scarcity being sustainable.  Even then, it was more of a projected fundamental and one that I still think is not well understood.  So I would agree that it's not going to be a fundamental driver that supplies the selling pressure but rather technical drivers, such as low volume buying vs high volume selling.  

On top of that, most if not all of the secondary indicators are extremely positive biased.  If the market is a zero sum game, a revert to the mean is definitely in order if not way overdue.  

Speculative interests are now being financed by larger money pools as well, so if margin trading is expected to mature, we could reasonably expect volatility to decline with increased liquidity.  This I believe with further suppress speculative exuberant tendencies to send the price on wild upswings and devastating collapses that have become a calling card for this trade.  There has been quite a bit of technical resistance to the type  of correction that I believe this trade will need in order to find stability and finally focus on fundamentals of the underlying asset.  

I believe we can read into the long term chart the erosion of those technical resistances since the ATH and that erosion has been gaining momentum.

As far as the demand curve and utilization vs price, I see an underlying fundamental contradiction here that will ultimately need to be balanced out in a technical correction.  

On the one hand there is an inverse relationship between volatility and consumer adoption.  On the other hand, the volatility fuels the speculative interest that have inflated the trade value.  

This is a direct impact on the liquidity of the trade.  Obviously, as more adoption occurs the more stable the price will become and the less volatile the trade.  Conversely, with a reduction in volatility comes a reduction in speculative interest and a less fluid trade with the mitigating factor being the ability to short trade and trade on margin.  This opens up the price to be hammered on a fundamental level as small negative news that send the trade lower triggers shorts to pile up and puts to execute. 

The price has been able to hold up against negative fundamentals due to speculative interest and relative higher levels of liquidity that exist in a volatile market.

The technical correction I believe will strike the balance between widespread consumer adoption and liquidity.  I believe bitcoin volatility must stabilize at a price level that is less speculative than what we see today in order for widespread adoption to occur.  I believe that speculative interests must be converted to investment interest and long term profit expectations must be more closely tied to the actual performance of the underlying asset in the market place, rather than the expectation that the trade with continue to make moon shot after moon shot with no regards to the fundamentals outside of artificial scarcity.

Technically, the trade has been overbought on the longest time scale since large capital started pouring in to it.  That needs to and I believe will correct.

----------


## presence

Ticket
RE: 10 day BTCe trollbox ban




> admin,
> 
> I was banned today and I really didn't appreciate it. I have a long standing reputation of supporting and promoting your site. 
> 
> I haven't visited BTCe in about 90 days. I've spent that time developing  10,000+ lines of open source code python trading scripts for trading on  your site. I've worked very diligently with the owner of tradewave.net  to focus on compatibility with the BTCe exchange as the first priority.  We've recently made some major advances towards support of your site on  the engine. 
> 
> Even though I haven't posted in 3 months, in the trollbox archive, my  name is still the #2 most searched screen name of all time; I'm ranked  higher than koolio and davidpate. Your users continually search for what  I provide in the trollbox be it open source code, charts, analysis, or  news. You can check through my post history and you will find more real  and solid bitcoin related information than is posted by anyone else in  that box. I don't post bull$#@! and I do all I can to promote crypto,  bitcoin, btce, and related services.
> 
> So today... after 3 months of silence, I come to back to BTCe to share  links to FREE open source python posted in the forum at tradewave.net.  This python can be used on tradewave's cloud server or the python code  can be used FOR FREE on any stand alone home computer. 
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

> The selling has slowed a bit, leaving the market reeling, oversold and catching its breath. While I think $450 is possible I wouldn't set buy orders that low. I saw a market sell for 1000btc on Bitfinex yesterday. _One thousand_ bitcoins at once. Why in god's name would you sell that many with one click--it would tear through the orderbook like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> Regardless we don't really know the reasons people sell... Fundamentals are better than ever so I wouldn't be surprised at a strong bounce.


I think Bitfinex is going to implode one of these days.  Margin trading BTC just doesn't seem like a good idea.

----------


## muh_roads

People think we're turning around now.  Some still say no.

This guy says $1400 by the end of the year...
https://www.tradingview.com/v/Ceb7TU6Q/

----------


## Shane Harris

The honey badger laughs at your attempts to predict the future.

----------


## fatjohn

Wow volume spike on BTC-e at the moment 700 bitcoins a minute price down hard to 367

Edit:350 ish price at bitstamp stays at 470

----------


## squarepusher

toodamoon?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm..._as_to_wtf_is/

----------


## presence

"New Gold" 

http://oi61.tinypic.com/vy83u9.jpg

----------


## muh_roads

Bought some more.  Those guys that caught the noob dump on btc-e are lucky.

----------


## zeMan

> Bought some more.  Those guys that caught the noob dump on btc-e are lucky.


I'll bet that was an automatic dump of leveraged positions from people using metatrader on BTC-e.

Man, I wish I'd caught that lol.

Anyone buying LTC now?

----------


## Dianne

> I'll bet that was an automatic dump of leveraged positions from people using metatrader on BTC-e.
> 
> Man, I wish I'd caught that lol.
> 
> Anyone buying LTC now?


I would also be interested in LTC opinions.   This seems like a perfect time to buy.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> toodamoon?
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm..._as_to_wtf_is/


Gotta love redditors spreading FUD.  

While I'm pretty neutral as to which direction this is going long-term, I'm not someone who panics over a short-term price movement.  This could still very well be like 2012, just a long, drawn-out cycle to shake up all of the believers in a strict bubble schedule.  Surprise, the market doesn't work like that.  Bubbles happened like that because people weren't expecting it, but now they are and that could be the very reason it's not happening yet.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I would also be interested in LTC opinions.   This seems like a perfect time to buy.


I'm not sure.  It could crash all the way to a dollar.  There's no support between here and there, and let's not forget that LTC is NOT bitcoin.  Just be careful is all I'm saying.

----------


## muh_roads

Litecoin could get replaced by Darkcoin in the upcoming generation.  Sentiment on LTC is $#@! right now.  I thought $2 would be the bottom.  I'm wondering if it could go below $1 now too...

Volatility is back.  People should be cheering it. Scoop low.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Litecoin could get replaced by Darkcoin in the upcoming generation.  Sentiment on LTC is $#@! right now.  I thought $2 would be the bottom.  I'm wondering if it could go below $1 now too...
> 
> Volatility is back.  People should be cheering it. Scoop low.


This is definitely better than that flat period.  I'm finally making some money, mostly on shorts because that's the obvious direction of this market for the time being.

----------


## Dianne

> Litecoin could get replaced by Darkcoin in the upcoming generation.  Sentiment on LTC is $#@! right now.  I thought $2 would be the bottom.  I'm wondering if it could go below $1 now too...
> 
> Volatility is back.  People should be cheering it. Scoop low.


I actually agree...  I lost a lot of money on LTC .. and I watched NMC and PPC die slow deaths .. And now LTC following the same pattern.    I've been burned too many times on alt coins ...   although tempted... think I'm staying clear of anything not named btc.

----------


## presence

100,000 Thread Views

----------


## Barrex

*I INVESTED PENNIES. WHERE ARE MY MILLIONS?*

----------


## kpitcher

> I would also be interested in LTC opinions.   This seems like a perfect time to buy.


LTC stood out for quite awhile as being a stable alt currency. Recent news puts almost all holdings of LTC on BTC-e so people are just trading back and forth with it. I also haven't seen any real development news with LTC. Some of the other currencies are at least showing up on more ATMs and usable on a growing number of websites. I fail to see why LTC would rise anymore as there isn't much to differentiate it.

----------


## Dianne

> LTC stood out for quite awhile as being a stable alt currency. Recent news puts almost all holdings of LTC on BTC-e so people are just trading back and forth with it. I also haven't seen any real development news with LTC. Some of the other currencies are at least showing up on more ATMs and usable on a growing number of websites. I fail to see why LTC would rise anymore as there isn't much to differentiate it.


Oh, I didn't know that.   What other coins are showing up on ATMs and/or websites?     I bought into the BTC is gold and LTC is silver, unfortunately.

----------


## amonasro

> I see,
> 
> well the link I posted is, 
> 
> http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...hnical_trading


Right, I was just saying his book is good too.  Worth a read for sure. Coming from zero trading experience it helped a lot more than sifting through trading sites.




> You mentioned "When I analyze a chart I look close at 15m then "zoom out" until I look at the daily and weekly. It helps me put together a better picture."
> 
> that contradicts the first law of analysis from John Murphy, 
> 
> Map the Trends  
> 
> ...Begin a chart analysis with monthly and weekly charts spanning several years...
> 
> I mean ultimately the goal is to make profitable trades, so however you come to that conclusion is not really the important thing.  Thank you for explaining a bit more about your view on analysis tho.  I don't want to come across as argumentative, just want to share my perspective.


My method is my own--I read books backwards too, start from the middle/end and work my way to the beginning. Magazines too, also forum threads. This probably comes from learning so much music in a short period of time in college, often you have to start with the trickiest parts which usually aren't in the beginning of the piece. So I take the creative approach 




> Speaking of fundamentals, I think perhaps the only fundamental that would maybe support the massive bubble and parabolic up move was the idea of artificial scarcity being sustainable.  Even then, it was more of a projected fundamental and one that I still think is not well understood.  So I would agree that it's not going to be a fundamental driver that supplies the selling pressure but rather technical drivers, such as low volume buying vs high volume selling.


Well we certainly agree here. Everyone wonders how many speculative bubbles we'll get. That's the big question that nobody knows the answer to.




> Speculative interests are now being financed by larger money pools as well, so if margin trading is expected to mature, we could reasonably expect volatility to decline with increased liquidity.  This I believe with further suppress speculative exuberant tendencies to send the price on wild upswings and devastating collapses that have become a calling card for this trade.  There has been quite a bit of technical resistance to the type  of correction that I believe this trade will need in order to find stability and finally focus on fundamentals of the underlying asset. 
> 
> I believe we can read into the long term chart the erosion of those technical resistances since the ATH and that erosion has been gaining momentum.
> 
> As far as the demand curve and utilization vs price, I see an underlying fundamental contradiction here that will ultimately need to be balanced out in a technical correction.  
> 
> On the one hand there is an inverse relationship between volatility and consumer adoption.  On the other hand, the volatility fuels the speculative interest that have inflated the trade value.  
> 
> This is a direct impact on the liquidity of the trade.  Obviously, as more adoption occurs the more stable the price will become and the less volatile the trade.  Conversely, with a reduction in volatility comes a reduction in speculative interest and a less fluid trade with the mitigating factor being the ability to short trade and trade on margin.  This opens up the price to be hammered on a fundamental level as small negative news that send the trade lower triggers shorts to pile up and puts to execute. 
> ...


So basically you're saying the price will go down. I disagree, and you're complicating the situation. For one, technical analysis includes fundamental analysis by default (Murphy goes into detail on this topic in his book) so separating the two seems illogical. Bitcoin is years away from being a "stable currency" by today's standards and may never even reach that point--it will exist as a hybrid stock/currency/trading tool. It will continue to be volatile until the market cap is large enough, and in the meantime the market will have to absorb the price swings--Bitpay/Coinbase are already beginning to explore this new market. It's also not in the best interest of exchanges to allow things like 50:1 leverage in a market of this size, so it probably won't happen.

----------


## muh_roads

> I would also be interested in LTC opinions. This seems like a perfect time to buy.


I thought I made an LTC sell call here.  Sorry to hear you lost a lot Dianne.  Did you scoop any on that bounce?  I've been flipping LTC & PPC but I never hold them for long.  NMC I tend to accumulate and hold a little more, sometimes.

If it makes you feel better, I lost a lot on Doge.  I think SomewhereInOz came from wolong's pump group the more I think about it.  Taking advantage of stupid traders here such as myself as they were trying to exit at the top of the Olympics Bobsled bubble.  I'm a lot more confident trading $#@!coins than I used to be.  But you gotta flip them fast.

----------


## amonasro

> LTC stood out for quite awhile as being a stable alt currency. Recent news puts almost all holdings of LTC on BTC-e so people are just trading back and forth with it. I also haven't seen any real development news with LTC. Some of the other currencies are at least showing up on more ATMs and usable on a growing number of websites. I fail to see why LTC would rise anymore as there isn't much to differentiate it.


I'm fairly sure there are no ATMs besides Bitcoin. LTC is also the only coin which can boast significant merchant adoption and a gift card service. Merchant adoption is what pushed Bitcoin from obscurity and LTC is following the same path. Chinese trade insane amounts of it on all their major exchanges, much higher volume than here, so it's incorrect to say all holdings are on btc-e. And China usually leads the market in major price moves in both BTC/LTC.

Bottom line, until it decouples from the price of BTC (which is hasn't) I'm not too worried about it.

I keep hearing how another altcoin will overtake Bitcoin. I feel like some of the altcoins are trying too hard. They are going after a market that is way too small and way too crowded. Combined with the scammy pump/dump nature of most of them, newcomers will not be eager to buy them up.

----------


## fatjohn

Quiz question: which one of the following is the current bear market?

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

The newer chart is the current one.

----------


## newbitech

> Right, I was just saying his book is good too.  Worth a read for sure. Coming from zero trading experience it helped a lot more than sifting through trading sites.
> 
> 
> 
> My method is my own--I read books backwards too, start from the middle/end and work my way to the beginning. Magazines too, also forum threads. This probably comes from learning so much music in a short period of time in college, often you have to start with the trickiest parts which usually aren't in the beginning of the piece. So I take the creative approach 
> 
> 
> 
> Well we certainly agree here. Everyone wonders how many speculative bubbles we'll get. That's the big question that nobody knows the answer to.
> ...


Yeah, I think the price will go down for many simple reasons.  One reason, its been overbought for going on years now.  I didn't separate technical from fundamental analysis.  There aren't any P/E ratios with this trade, no physical links other than the massive amounts of energy consumption needed to maintain the calculators and of course the tech behind those calculators.  If we view bitcoin as a commodity like gold, the best we can say about scarcity is that it is artificially maintained.  The technology behind it is not well understood.  There are known scaling issues.  No one know what will happen once the adoption curve starts to match the speculative interest curve (which is waning btw).  

So i'd be happy to include more fundamentals in my technical analysis.  Which ones?  

I do go in to some details in regards to the relationship between the underlying fundamental of consumer adoption and liquidity of the trade.  In that detail, I make it pretty clear that I believe the fundamental contradiction will be technically corrected.  

On a much larger scale, we see very similar fundamental contradictions in the manipulated markets like the NASQAQ, S&P, and DJIA during technical crashes.  For instance, the most recent correction.  Fundamentals for housing were horrible, those paying attention knew that the prices could not rise forever.  The only thing that supported the higher prices was, the higher prices.  Housing technically corrected the horrible fundamentals in spite of the price indicator.  Sadly, the technical correction was cut off thanks to market manipulation, but it's still painfully obvious that the housing market and the broader markets fundamentals are horrible, and technically should correct. 

Bitcoin markets are by and large free from wide scale manipulation.  So in the absence of very strong fundamentals, which bitcoin does not have, there is nothing to prevent the even stronger technicals from bringing the fundamentals more in line with the reality that is occurring in the market place. 

The fundamental fact is consumer adoption seems to be slow.  The price of the trade in terms of artificial scarcity has far outpaced the underlying fundamental.  A thing can be extremely scarce, for instance, my finger nail clippings.  But if there is no demand for it, I can't really expect to sell it for $1,000's per piece.

----------


## Dianne

> I thought I made an LTC sell call here.  Sorry to hear you lost a lot Dianne.  Did you scoop any on that bounce?  I've been flipping LTC & PPC but I never hold them for long.  NMC I tend to accumulate and hold a little more, sometimes.
> 
> If it makes you feel better, I lost a lot on Doge.  I think SomewhereInOz came from wolong's pump group the more I think about it.  Taking advantage of stupid traders here such as myself as they were trying to exit at the top of the Olympics Bobsled bubble.  I'm a lot more confident trading $#@!coins than I used to be.  But you gotta flip them fast.


You may have made a sell call and I missed it.   I agree with you about SomewhereInOz.   His advice always seemed jacked up.     I did not scoop LTC at $3.50 two days ago.   I should have, since at the moment it has bumped to $5.00.     I watched slow death of PPC and NMC and kept thinking they couldn't go lower than $4.00.  Then $3.00, then $2.00 and now under $1.00.    If I get another LTC buying opportunity around mid $3.00's, I probably will grab some.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah, I think the price will go down for many simple reasons.  One reason, its been overbought for going on years now.  I didn't separate technical from fundamental analysis.  There aren't any P/E ratios with this trade, no physical links other than the massive amounts of energy consumption needed to maintain the calculators and of course the tech behind those calculators.  If we view bitcoin as a commodity like gold, the best we can say about scarcity is that it is artificially maintained.  The technology behind it is not well understood.  There are known scaling issues.  No one know what will happen once the adoption curve starts to match the speculative interest curve (which is waning btw).  
> 
> So i'd be happy to include more fundamentals in my technical analysis.  Which ones?  
> 
> I do go in to some details in regards to the relationship between the underlying fundamental of consumer adoption and liquidity of the trade.  In that detail, I make it pretty clear that I believe the fundamental contradiction will be technically corrected.  
> 
> On a much larger scale, we see very similar fundamental contradictions in the manipulated markets like the NASQAQ, S&P, and DJIA during technical crashes.  For instance, the most recent correction.  Fundamentals for housing were horrible, those paying attention knew that the prices could not rise forever.  The only thing that supported the higher prices was, the higher prices.  Housing technically corrected the horrible fundamentals in spite of the price indicator.  Sadly, the technical correction was cut off thanks to market manipulation, but it's still painfully obvious that the housing market and the broader markets fundamentals are horrible, and technically should correct. 
> 
> Bitcoin markets are by and large free from wide scale manipulation.  So in the absence of very strong fundamentals, which bitcoin does not have, there is nothing to prevent the even stronger technicals from bringing the fundamentals more in line with the reality that is occurring in the market place. 
> ...


When you say "overbought for going on years now" what time frame are you using?

----------


## fatjohn

> Quiz question: which one of the following is the current bear market?


I'm just going to bump this because no-one is getting the message. This chart SCREAMS that the next wave is imminent.
The pattern has been exactly the same only taking 1.5 times as long.

The correct answer was the upper chart is the current bear market. When I posted we were right in the middle of phase 10.
One day later we're up 5% and heading toward the finish of 10 soon.

Within two weeks large price moves are to occur. Within a month 1000 will be reached. Within 2 months 4000.

But why listen to a monkey with glasses.

----------


## fatjohn

Also LTC/BTC ratio is a replica of what happened in September.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Also LTC/BTC ratio is a replica of what happened in September.


It's a possibility, but I'm still having a little trouble understanding why we would drop so far right now.  The last time this happened it was because of the SR bust, but now there is barely any news at all.  I suppose you could say the market doesn't react to news, but then why didn't that happen during all the other bubbles?  It only started when the SR bust happened.

----------


## amonasro

> It's a possibility, but I'm still having a little trouble understanding why we would drop so far right now.  The last time this happened it was because of the SR bust, but now there is barely any news at all.  I suppose you could say the market doesn't react to news, but then why didn't that happen during all the other bubbles?  It only started when the SR bust happened.


It's because (and this is my theory) that chart that fatjohn posted has been seen by just about every trader in the digital currency sphere. It's a great chart. Because of it, the bulls leveraged long to the hilt at Bitfinex, Okcoin, btc-e (through metatrader) and anywhere else that allowed margin trading. Enter the margin headhunters, an individual or group of traders with deep pockets intent on pushing the price downward, thereby forcing account liquidation of these lesser-skilled, greedy speculators thinking they could make a quick buck on the next "bubble." They methodically broke through major resistances and caused margin call cascade downward, scooping up cheap coins all the way down. It was pretty brutal. 

Of course we can't really know what happened or why, but if Wall Street guys are playing the game, this is how it might go down. They created a tremendous amount of fear for no real reason whatsoever and shook the hell out of the tree. The best thing to do when sharks are in the water is stay out. You can still buy on dips and take advantage. Just don't buy into the fear.

----------


## nayjevin

The real speculation is future adoption (which is partially regulation based.)  If BTC had consistent growth as useful tool, it would be very predictable.  If one's position is that BTC survives and grows, trading safely becomes fairly straightforward.  If there's ever going to be the thought that, 'I hope I don't get stuck in BTC,' then, all bets are off.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The real speculation is future adoption (which is partially regulation based.)  If BTC had consistent growth as useful tool, it would be very predictable.  If one's position is that BTC survives and grows, trading safely becomes fairly straightforward.  If there's ever going to be the thought that, 'I hope I don't get stuck in BTC,' then, all bets are off.


You speak as if you actually know something about the subject.

----------


## amonasro

> The real speculation is future adoption (which is partially regulation based.)  If BTC had consistent growth as useful tool, it would be very predictable.  If one's position is that BTC survives and grows, trading safely becomes fairly straightforward.  If there's ever going to be the thought that, 'I hope I don't get stuck in BTC,' then, all bets are off.


The "I hope I don't get stuck in BTC" happens every capitulation. That's why people panic sell at the bottom. It tends to weed people out who don't understand it fully, are not interested in its long-term success, or are simply interested in making a quick buck. Bitcoin doesn't like those kinds of people.

----------


## muh_roads

Breaking $500 today was a very important barrier.  If it didn't, it may have been more bleeding.  According to others, fib lines say 584.50 will be the next stop.

----------


## nayjevin

> The "I hope I don't get stuck in BTC" happens every capitulation. That's why people panic sell at the bottom. It tends to weed people out who don't understand it fully, are not interested in its long-term success, or are simply interested in making a quick buck. Bitcoin doesn't like those kinds of people.


Cause it's real

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Cause it's real


Of course it's real.  It's real for every investment.  In fact, there's rarely a time when your average investor is not feeling that.

----------


## nayjevin

> Of course it's real.  It's real for every investment.  In fact, there's rarely a time when your average investor is not feeling that.


I mean bitcoin is real.




> You speak as if you actually know something about the subject.


Relax, and rest assured that I hate myself more than you do.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I mean bitcoin is real.
> 
> 
> 
> Relax, and rest assured that I hate myself more than you do.


Ok, good.

----------


## newbitech

nice inverse head and shoulders forming on the hourly.  very good shape to it (slight up slope) and supported by volume (declining seller volume, still need to see strong buying to confirm).  Neck line around 530-540 range.  Head is at 442.  I've got the left shoulder at 482 right should around 500.  Look for a strong volume break out above 540.  

Target would be 640.

I picked up a short hedge in the sub 500's for a move like this, I'll be waiting to close out a short somewhere around 550 if it looks like a break out is coming.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> nice inverse head and shoulders forming on the hourly.  very good shape to it (slight up slope) and supported by volume (declining seller volume, still need to see strong buying to confirm).  Neck line around 530-540 range.  Head is at 442.  I've got the left shoulder at 482 right should around 500.  Look for a strong volume break out above 540.  
> 
> Target would be 640.
> 
> I picked up a short hedge in the sub 500's for a move like this, I'll be waiting to close out a short somewhere around 550 if it looks like a break out is coming.


I saw that, too.  Looks promising.

----------


## amonasro

> I saw that, too.  Looks promising.


Saw it as well. Looking for a big buying spree to confirm. Huobi's is looking good too (NICE buy volume there) and LTC's, as usual, looks like the redheaded stepchild version. But it's there

----------


## muh_roads

> nice inverse head and shoulders forming on the hourly.  very good shape to it (slight up slope) and supported by volume (declining seller volume, still need to see strong buying to confirm).  Neck line around 530-540 range.  Head is at 442.  I've got the left shoulder at 482 right should around 500.  Look for a strong volume break out above 540.  
> 
> Target would be 640.
> 
> I picked up a short hedge in the sub 500's for a move like this, I'll be waiting to close out a short somewhere around 550 if it looks like a break out is coming.


Glad to hear you're back in the game.

----------


## newbitech

> Glad to hear you're back in the game.


lol, you mean glad I have fiat into BTC?  Only a novelty investment.  My position has been short for a while now, although I did put a hedge on because I think if the head and shoulders confirms it will confirm all the way thru the intra day high in May.  So I'm looking to pull up steaks on my short, cash out and ride the other side.  My long term view hasn't changed at all, I'll be looking for a better short position up around the 800 level

----------


## presence

I wasn't bot trading, but my open source breakout indicator caught the bottom this past week.  Think of it like a Ricter Scale.  Note the long period of "no activity"  There are actually many smaller spikes to +10 -20 +50 -35 etc. which can be used for more micro scale bidding... but look at what this indicator did to last weeks low:


Image may extend off edge of page:

On 60 days scale, 1h candles:





Zooming into 1m candles of just August 19th; you can see that the volatility indicator was sub -1000 when price was still at $400 and falling.   The indicator went months with a low no more extreme than around -50; then it registered the earthquake with alarm bells minutes before the bottom.   It first registered sub -1000 at 7:41; price was $400 and falling.  Five minutes later price hit absolute bottom; about an hour later the volatility indicator returned to "normal" 



Here it is normalized:

if v < -1000:
v = -1000


Which shows the explosion to sub -1000 occurred minutes before the bottom. 


import talib

SHORT = 2
LONG = 10
LIMIT = 6    

def breakout():
    pair = data(interval=intervals._1h).btc_usd
    shortMa = float(pair.ma(SHORT))
    longMa = float(pair.ma(LONG))
    longHigh = talib.MA(pair.period(LONG, 'high'), timeperiod=LONG)[-1]
    longLow = talib.MA(pair.period(LONG, 'low'), timeperiod=LONG)[-1]
    shortHigh = talib.MA(pair.period(SHORT, 'high'), timeperiod=SHORT)[-1]
    shortLow = talib.MA(pair.period(SHORT, 'low'), timeperiod=SHORT)[-1]  
    longRange = 100 * (longHigh - longLow) / shortMa
    shortRange = 100 * (shortHigh - shortLow) / shortMa
    diff = longRange - shortRange
    volatility = round(((diff) * (diff) * (shortMa - longMa)) * 100) / 100

    if volatility > LIMIT:
        breakout = 1
    elif volatility < -LIMIT:
        breakout = -1
    else:
        breakout = 0      

    return volatility, breakout

def tick():    

    v, b = breakout()

    plot('v', v, secondary=True)

    plot('low', data.btc_usd.low)



https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/brea...ndicator/146/6

----------


## amonasro

> I wasn't bot trading, but my open source breakout indicator caught the bottom this past week.  Think of it like a Ricter Scale.  Note the long period of "no activity"  There are actually many smaller spikes to +10 -20 +50 -35 etc. which can be used for more micro scale bidding... but look at what this indicator did to last weeks low:


That's awesome. Really creative how you turned it into an "earthquake indicator."

----------


## newbitech

eesh  buyers don't seem interested.  Was a really great technical set up for a short term trade.  I suppose it's possible for some bullish pattern verification, but not if the demand isn't there.   I see sellers stacking in again today.  Just feels like people have had their fill.  

The reverse head and shoulders pattern is starting to look ugly now.  I'd have to pull all the way back to a 12 hour chart to "maybe" feel a good swing trade bull signal, but then that starts getting into the longer term trend which starts to look more like a bounce of the token support and failed retest of the intermediate resist at 530-550.

I expect selling to resume again and put more pressure on the token support level between 420-440 ish..   

too bad, really thought there was a chance at making some money in a counter trend rally.  That's backing off now.  Again those sellers seem to be relentless at this point.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I was all in at 486 once it broke the downtrend and thought it would make it to at least 550s, but was discouraged when it got turned away at 530s and selling volume increased again.  It just broke the short-term uptrend and seems to be retesting 500 right now, but I don't think it's going up anymore until we've had another retest of the lows.

Still made a nice bit off that short-term rise, though.

----------


## amonasro

Hi guys, here's a 20 day log of Icy Spank's trades from 8/4 to 8/24. Once the volatility gets going it really does a nice job... even called the bottom at $4 which is impressive. Sorry about the wall of text, but it shows the iceberg order system at work as the buyers/sellers fill your order over time. 

Summary:

Started Spank Market Order late May in a live BTC-E accountFirst few trades whipsawed, lost LTC, considered turning it offIn June performance improved--moved all coins to a new BTC-E account running Icy Spank and added 20LTC (I think this messed up the ROI math)Asset portfolio started at *620LTC, now holding 1434LTC*Dollar value started at *$6400, now at $7890*

Nice job with this one, Pres 




> 2014-08-04 21:00 96 Currency: $0/5595 5718% ROI
> 2014-08-04 21:00 10 Assets: 762/762 7524% ROI 100% Held
> 2014-08-04 21:00 SELL 3 - Trade Number: 13
> 2014-08-04 21:00 Selling...
> 2014-08-04 21:00 Iceberg Ask Number 1
> 2014-08-04 21:00 SELL order #319706352 amount: 279.81 LTC at 7.34
> 2014-08-04 21:00 Order #319706352 canceled as it was inactive for 25 seconds.
> 2014-08-04 21:02 Iceberg Ask Number 2
> 2014-08-04 21:02 SELL order #319708189 amount: 281.02 LTC at 7.33
> ...

----------


## presence

> Hi guys, here's a 20 day log of Icy Spank's trades from 8/4 to 8/24. 
> 
> 
> []
> 
> 
> Asset portfolio started at *620LTC, now holding 1434LTC*Dollar value started at *$6400, now at $7890* 
> 
> Nice job with this one, Pres





I like how the bot basically shut down from 8/5 until 8/19 while the market tanked before resuming higher frequency trading.




14 days of patience and faith



I don't care who you are... making that happen, a few months in advance with a few hundred lines of code is kick ass     I'm re-inspired.    Must double down on python script programming at tradewave.  






> small loss... small loss... small loss... small loss... HUGE GAIN
> 
> ...rinse repeat
> 
> = profit
> 
> small loss... small loss... small loss... panic
> 
> = fail  
> ...

----------


## nayjevin

20 day window? Is there any evidence that isn't selective reporting, like global warming data? (this is your chance to either state your case in face of skepticism or start flaming and posting giant green [mod edit]s)

----------


## muh_roads

> 20 day window? Is there any evidence that isn't selective reporting, like global warming data? (this is your chance to either state your case in face of skepticism or start flaming and posting giant green [mod edit]s)


I'll pretend to care what he thinks.  Why are you so hostile, nayjevin?

Thank you amonsaro for posting that info.  I turned mine off, looks like that was a mistake.  Well done pres!

----------


## amonasro

> 20 day window? Is there any evidence that isn't selective reporting, like global warming data? (this is your chance to either state your case in face of skepticism or start flaming and posting giant green [mod edit]s)


Maybe I can help since I've watched it make lotsa trades. Yeah, it is selective reporting. I could have posted the trades that didn't make money, and there are a number of them, like the whipsaws in June and July. I'm not trying to say it makes great trades every time, because it doesn't. For instance Spank sold at 5.51 last night. I've been expecting a bounce upward so if that happens it'll put me back on the right side of the trend at a small loss... something that's not so easy if you are a human trader. Spank is like a surfer waiting for that big wave.... he gets up on all of them, but only a few are worthwhile. Those big ones make up for the crappy little ones, like the example I posted.

----------


## ronmartin13

Pres. I want to use one of your bots. Is there a way I can msg you privately?
Thanks for all the info.

----------


## presence

> Pres. I want to use one of your bots. Is there a way I can msg you privately?
> Thanks for all the info.


You can send me a private msg through ronpaulforums or email at rpfpresence@gmail.com

"Honey Badger" is my current work in progress.

It trades BTCUSD, LTCUSD, and LTCBTC all in one script; I keep telling myself only another 2 weeks... I'm not done with it is all I can say, dev time is hard to estimate.

----------


## ronmartin13

Is this thread dead? I've been following it since the start... why?

----------


## muh_roads

> Is this thread dead? I've been following it since the start... why?


Volatility has been boring so there isn't much to report in regards to charts.  It could enter more despair or we have already entered it and this could take off with some upcoming good news.

Until then we will be sideways.

I think a lot of that groundwork is being unfolded now as we speak.  ETF's are going to come online soon, and what I am finding more interesting is the wealthy young libertarians that got in early with 5 & 6 figures of BTC are reinvesting back into the infrastructure of emerging markets.  There is a lot of stuff to read on the board regarding this.  I think I am more excited about that than I am about Paypal or ETF's at the moment.  There will definitely be more bubbles.

I'm continually buying.  And I will balance transfer to the checking some 0% credit cards if it drops into the $200's.  Take the aristocrat's $#@!ty toilet paper money and use it against them.

I don't bother reading the uneducated hate of BTC with their politics of envy and anger.  The smartest guys in the room are excited about Bitcoin.  So are young people in the digital payment processing sector to help make it more user friendly and take it out of Internet 1995 equivalency.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Volatility has been boring so there isn't much to report in regards to charts.  It could enter more despair or we have already entered it and this could take off with some upcoming good news.
> 
> Until then we will be sideways.
> 
> I think a lot of that groundwork is being unfolded now as we speak.  ETF's are going to come online soon, and what I am finding more interesting is the wealthy young libertarians that got in early with 5 & 6 figures of BTC are reinvesting back into the infrastructure of emerging markets.  There is a lot of stuff to read on the board regarding this.  I think I am more excited about that than I am about Paypal or ETF's at the moment.  There will definitely be more bubbles.
> 
> I'm continually buying.  And I will balance transfer to the checking some 0% credit cards if it drops into the $200's.  Take the aristocrat's $#@!ty toilet paper money and use it against them.
> 
> I don't bother reading the uneducated hate of BTC with their politics of envy and anger.  The smartest guys in the room are excited about Bitcoin.  So are young people in the digital payment processing sector to help make it more user friendly and take it out of Internet 1995 equivalency.


That's interesting.  I do think 2015 will be a good year for bitcoin, but it may have to drop into the 200s first.  If not, then double bottom.  I would short from below 443.  It's already looking quite bearish atm.

----------


## amonasro

> I don't bother reading the uneducated hate of BTC with their politics of envy and anger.  The smartest guys in the room are excited about Bitcoin.  So are young people in the digital payment processing sector to help make it more user friendly and take it out of Internet 1995 equivalency.


Well said. I feel exactly the same way.

I also think there is a lot of envy/frustration/fear apparent with current holders who invested between $600-$800 per btc, don't really have any experience in markets, and are cutting their losses or seriously considering it. Can't say I blame them, but they are capitulating to stronger hands. Once the strong hands have enough coins, demand starts exceeding supply again and we know what happens then. We are almost out of sellers in this bear market.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well said. I feel exactly the same way.
> 
> I also think there is a lot of envy/frustration/fear apparent with current holders who invested between $600-$800 per btc, don't really have any experience in markets, and are cutting their losses or seriously considering it. Can't say I blame them, but they are capitulating to stronger hands. Once the strong hands have enough coins, demand starts exceeding supply again and we know what happens then. We are almost out of sellers in this bear market.


I think we need another obvious V bottom before anything can begin in earnest.  We need to bounce hard to prove that the demand is there.  It hasn't happened yet, just a temporary lull in the bear action.

----------


## presence

*Tradewave.net just added BTCe backtest data*


 BTCUSD back to August 2011.   Huge upgrade from old data set that cut off at August 2013.   


let the bot tuning begin

----------


## zeMan

Did any of you guys catch the BTC/EUR, LTC/EUR action on BTC-e last night? Something crazy happened, big euro account got hacked, bot went nuts, something, anyway BTC was bought up to 3200 Euros and spikes happened for about 2 hours. LTC was being bought up to 8 Euro. Check the chart for yesterday, its quite nutty.

----------


## Suzu

> Did any of you guys catch the BTC/EUR, LTC/EUR action on BTC-e last night? Something crazy happened, big euro account got hacked, bot went nuts, something, anyway BTC was bought up to 3200 Euros and spikes happened for about 2 hours. LTC was being bought up to 8 Euro. Check the chart for yesterday, its quite nutty.


Where is this chart located?

----------


## staerker

> Where is this chart located?


https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/btceur
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ltceur

----------


## Suzu

> https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/btceur
> https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/ltceur


Thanks for the links. I can't understand the charts, though.

----------


## staerker

> Thanks for the links. I can't understand the charts, though.


Top chart: x-axis is time, y-axis is price.

Bottom chart: x-axis is time, y-axis is volume.

So the spikes you see are sudden and extreme spikes in market price, along with significantly greater trade volume (with respect to surrounding times.)

Usually means that a single buyer with a ton of money bought through all the pending offers.

The fact that the price stabilized relatively quickly usually means that the individual either didn't know what he was doing, or, something malfunctioned (account hack, bot going nuts.)

----------


## ronmartin13

What's the deal? is this a short term spike or is this the movement we've all been waiting for?
Can somebody point me in the direction of a place where they are discussing the coin... not the troll box!  Please.

----------


## muh_roads

> What's the deal? is this a short term spike or is this the movement we've all been waiting for?
> Can somebody point me in the direction of a place where they are discussing the coin... not the troll box!  Please.


I think it is just consolidation/despair/weak hand shakeout before the storm.  So much good news out there constantly coming out.

Trolls exist everywhere you go in cryptoland.  Avoiding "trollbox" attitudes is tough.

----------


## muh_roads

> Did any of you guys catch the BTC/EUR, LTC/EUR action on BTC-e last night? Something crazy happened, big euro account got hacked, bot went nuts, something, anyway BTC was bought up to 3200 Euros and spikes happened for about 2 hours. LTC was being bought up to 8 Euro. Check the chart for yesterday, its quite nutty.


I feel sorry for that guy.  Somebody said he lost 3000 btc or something when his bot went haywire.

Good lesson to learn I guess.  Even whales can $#@! themselves over.

This is why bots make me nervous.  You always have a hard time sleeping.  Always gotta keep one eye open on it.  I do share pres' vision of an automated trading future.  I think it will happen.  Some people just have to experience a lot of pain before we get there.

----------


## muh_roads

> That's interesting.  I do think 2015 will be a good year for bitcoin, but it may have to drop into the 200s first.  If not, then double bottom.  *I would short from below 443*.  It's already looking quite bearish atm.


You shorting?

There is more good news coming so I expect more selling...lol
$#@! is so backwards right now.

Whales are being $#@!s right now.  And they aren't talking.  Serious attempt for cheaper accumulation going on.

----------


## Shane Harris

Sub 420

----------


## staerker

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/peerc...roject-nubits/

Money leaving from btc to ppc. ?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You shorting?
> 
> There is more good news coming so I expect more selling...lol
> $#@! is so backwards right now.
> 
> Whales are being $#@!s right now.  And they aren't talking.  Serious attempt for cheaper accumulation going on.


Yeah, I'm shorting at least until the peak of the 2013 bubble @ 260ish.  I'll cover my shorts at 270 or 280.  I expect 2015 to be a much better year.

----------


## Suzu

> Yeah, I'm shorting at least until the peak of the 2013 bubble @ 260ish.  I'll cover my shorts at 270 or 280.  I expect 2015 to be a much better year.


What do you mean by "cover my shorts"? (sorry to be such a dolt about this business, but I just don't know the ropes yet)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What do you mean by "cover my shorts"? (sorry to be such a dolt about this business, but I just don't know the ropes yet)


"Shorting" the market is a way of making money when the price goes down.  It involves borrowing BTC so that you can sell them and then buy them back at a lower price and make a little profit.  To cover one's shorts is to buy back the borrowed BTC and return them to their original owner whilst getting your original investment back plus the money you saved from buying back lower.

----------


## Shane Harris

sub 390

----------


## muh_roads

When looking at the zoomed out 1d chart, it looks like we are near the end of a 2nd red dragon.  So still one more red dragon to go.  But this 2nd one wasn't as steep of a drop as the first.

I have spread orders all the way down to 300 in case someone does a fast noob dump...might be good to keep setting your spread all the way down to 250.

This will eventually bounce hard to find a new mean.  I'm finding too much good news about BTC daily.  Feels like accumulation by the VC crowd.

----------


## Dianne

> When looking at the zoomed out 1d chart, it looks like we are near the end of a 2nd red dragon.  So still one more red dragon to go.  But this 2nd one wasn't as steep of a drop as the first.
> 
> I have spread orders all the way down to 300 in case someone does a fast noob dump...might be good to keep setting your spread all the way down to 250.
> 
> This will eventually bounce hard to find a new mean.  I'm finding too much good news about BTC daily.  Feels like accumulation by the VC crowd.


Unfortunately I'm stuck with LTC purchased at $6.75.   I'm going to have to wait it out and hope LTC eventually bounces.    I had to stop watching the charts.

----------


## muh_roads

> Unfortunately I'm stuck with LTC purchased at $6.75.   I'm going to have to wait it out and hope LTC eventually bounces.    I had to stop watching the charts.


Buying near the latest low of $2 before the bounce would've lowered your $6.75 average to exit.  $#@!coins are making LTC look bad.  Many are feeling like LTC doesn't really offer anything different, and they would be right.  I took a huge loss on Dogecoin but if I didn't sell when I did, it would've just got worse.  I feel your pain on indecisive bagholding,

Even $#@!coins with amazing anonymous technology are treated like pump & dumps anymore.  BTC is still the digital gold to traders.

----------


## Suzu

> "Shorting" the market is a way of making money when the price goes down.  It involves borrowing BTC so that you can sell them and then buy them back at a lower price and make a little profit.  To cover one's shorts is to buy back the borrowed BTC and return them to their original owner whilst getting your original investment back plus the money you saved from buying back lower.


That makes sense. Except why would anyone lend you the original BTC to use to make profit, when they could make the profit themselves by doing what you plan on doing?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That makes sense. Except why would anyone lend you the original BTC to use to make profit, when they could make the profit themselves by doing what you plan on doing?


Because they charge a little interest for lending it to you and there's no risk involved for them because the borrower takes on all the risk by trading.

----------


## Dianne

> Buying near the latest low of $2 before the bounce would've lowered your $6.75 average to exit.  $#@!coins are making LTC look bad.  Many are feeling like LTC doesn't really offer anything different, and they would be right.  I took a huge loss on Dogecoin but if I didn't sell when I did, it would've just got worse.  I feel your pain on indecisive bagholding,
> 
> Even $#@!coins with amazing anonymous technology are treated like pump & dumps anymore.  BTC is still the digital gold to traders.


That makes sense.   I certainly missed the boat and trying to move them on eBay now.

----------


## amonasro

> That makes sense.   I certainly missed the boat and trying to move them on eBay now.


I'd be careful with eBay--I've not personally bought/sold crypto there but I hear about lots of chargebacks.

If you have a Coinbase account, a better option would be to convert them to BTC at an exchange, then cash out through Coinbase.

----------


## Dianne

> I'd be careful with eBay--I've not personally bought/sold crypto there but I hear about lots of chargebacks.
> 
> If you have a Coinbase account, a better option would be to convert them to BTC at an exchange, then cash out through Coinbase.


I just hate to cash out at such a loss.    Do you think LTC will rebound back to at least the $7.00 range?

----------


## amonasro

> I just hate to cash out at such a loss.    Do you think LTC will rebound back to at least the $7.00 range?


Yes, but you might have to wait awhile. LTC enjoys moving parallel to BTC, but it has overall more general downward pressure when the market goes sideways.

----------


## muh_roads

> I just hate to cash out at such a loss.    Do you think LTC will rebound back to at least the $7.00 range?


Whales like to play popular coins.  They will move LTC again some day.  The despair shakeout for cheap coins is the game they play.

----------


## zeMan

> You can send me a private msg through ronpaulforums or email at rpfpresence@gmail.com
> 
> "Honey Badger" is my current work in progress.
> 
> It trades BTCUSD, LTCUSD, and LTCBTC all in one script; I keep telling myself only another 2 weeks... I'm not done with it is all I can say, dev time is hard to estimate.


 Hey Pres, how's Honey Badger coming? By the way, you should add DRK/BTC, DRK/USD in there and run it on Bitfinex

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Who's still here?  

Muh-roads, where do you get out?  Is there a point at which you stop buying and start selling?  Is there any point at which you lose faith in the mythical whales?

Where does it end?

----------


## evilfunnystuff

> Who's still here?  
> 
> Muh-roads, where do you get out?  Is there a point at which you stop buying and start selling?  Is there any point at which you lose faith in the mythical whales?
> 
> Where does it end?


I am just starting to scoop. 

I don't really understand TA or projections, nor have I ever trusted any of the publicly available ones.

I just buy when I feel the time is right, and now seems like a good time to buy to me, and I will continue incremental buying if the price drops any more.

----------


## newbitech

I'm still feeling the long term trend line I projected in this post.  

Even tho we had some harder paddle ball whacks than I thought, I think this analysis is still valid. 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ghlight=octave

----------


## zeMan

It seems to me like we may have hit bottom - http://imgur.com/QDSwKUM

Unless of course it keeps dumping, in which case, nevermind.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm still feeling the long term trend line I projected in this post.  
> 
> Even tho we had some harder paddle ball whacks than I thought, I think this analysis is still valid. 
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ghlight=octave


I know you've spoken negatively about the technology in the past, but you seem to be saying that there will be a healthy new uptrend once it reaches your target area.  Is that correct, or do you think this is the beginning of the end?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It seems to me like we may have hit bottom - http://imgur.com/QDSwKUM
> 
> Unless of course it keeps dumping, in which case, nevermind.


That's not likely to serve as a meaningful bottom.  We would need to see a convincing reversal with good volume and real demand.  No, I don't think we're there yet.  This is just like the 5 or 6 other "bottoms" we've had on the way down here.

----------


## newbitech

> I know you've spoken negatively about the technology in the past, but you seem to be saying that there will be a healthy new uptrend once it reaches your target area.  Is that correct, or do you think this is the beginning of the end?


Yes, I have had some negative things to say about the implementation of the technology.  To be fair, I've always held that the technology is revolutionary.  I'm just afraid that the implementation hasn't been as solid as the underlying tech.  There are some core issues with using the technology the way it has been used.  I won't go into a lot of details to answer your question at this point, but I think it is fair to say that the technology is here to stay, just maybe not in the current mode.  It's a good foundation to build off of and I am sure as time goes on and the large capital investors learn more about how the tech is being used and can be used, will see innovations that will add much more value and the exchanges will stabilize around that more realistic valuation.  

As far my target area, I tried to go back and extend my stable growth line for the long term.  I am still focused on the pivot at $250, as I believe many people are.  If you go back and look at the largest weekly volume candles in the bitstamp chart on trading view you will note a couple of things.

1.) Shortly after my 'octave' analysis that we are talking about, the market signaled that the pivot was actually at $320.  This was the week of 11/4 settlement price.  The week ended the same day after my analysis.  It is important to note that this week was the largest volume positive movement in the history of this trade.  
2.) That week began at 207  reached as high as 364 and finally settled at 320.  On the daily view for the same week, there is a high volume touch point to the down side on 11/10, the day of my analysis which I believe coincided with new about senate hearings coupled with the fall out from silk road bust.  THat touch point was 264, which at the time showed strong support for the peak of the april 2013 exuberance. 
3.)  The idea of the octave was to eventually challenge and retest the pivot point in this range.  A healthy strong volume bounce of that retest would indicate that the steady growth trend would reach up to a new level or octave of pricing with the new trend line RANGE setting up the low end of the range at the TOP of the high end of the old range.  


So what has actually played out is that the retest never happened.  What we are seeing today is not a retest of top end of the old growth trend.  Instead it is a return to the old lower octave growth trend. 

This is actually really extremely positive news for the long term growth prospects of the technology in so far as fair market valuations and in terms of technical analysis.  So in fact, with todays retest of that pivot point which by now has extended the old stead growth channel, what we are seeing (finally) is some pricing stability. 

No, this is not the beginning of the end.  But it is the end of the beginning, if that makes sense.  We are seeing some soberness return to this trade and to this tech.  This is a positive sign for long term investors and for actual users of this technology.  Not just in terms of technicals, but also, it is fundamentally important for this technology to be made widely available to the average consumer.  Even tho I think we all have different perspectives of what the value of "bitcoin" might be, and we even have different ways of understanding what a "bitcoin" might actually be, the average not technical person will see "cheap" bitcoins as an opportunity to  explore and adopt the technology.  This is a good thing!

So that being said, I think finally we'll start to move out of the speculative phase of the introduction of an invention and revolution in communications technology.  I think we'll be moving back into a more realistic approach of figuring out what the technology can actually do and maybe start seeing investors and early adopters focus more on software and less on the exchange charts.   

I suspect that the market will over correct even tho many will be licking their chops to scoop up at whatever the low actually ends up being.  No one wants to get burned again, but looking at my long terms growth trend, the bottom end of that trend is right around the 260 level and the range would be up into the 320 area as of today.  That's on the weekly analysis.  

I'd be looking for an over correct to somewhere around the 120-150 range because I expect the old 250 pivot to be broken still based on volume support at that level and then one final capitulation to drive prices down to the last stable trend range post april 2013 highs.  

Today, this would be support on the weekly chart secondary indicators.  This down move has been gathering momentum for months now.  The weekly is just now starting to move into oversold range after nearly 20 months of bouncing in and out of overbought.   I believe we'll spend a week or two of weekly oversold enough to bring the MONTHLY chart on trading view secondary RSI indicator down to touch the oversold level.  That projects prices out to 120-150 on a LONG over due technical correction.  

That being said, I started small buys last week as we punched down into the upper octave growth lows of 320 where intermediate support was at.  I've also scooped up some of the pivot prices just now as we begin challenging the growth octave pivots. I'll be adding my position all the way down to my target over correct range of 120-150.  

The trend reversal won't happen quickly, so there won't be a "catch a falling knife moment".  I believe this will be a protracted correction and very frustrating for people who have been long during this entire corrective phase.  

However, there will be plenty of opportunity for bulls to retrench because eventually, there won't be enough floor space to short.  We'll get back to a day trader market real soon here, but the whipsaw action won't be as severe as we saw with the last 2 bubble phases.   

I suppose the big question is, where is the top to this thing?  Will there be another bubble up phase?    I think the sky is definitely the limit assuming innovation keeps pace with valuations.  That hasn't been the case because I do believe the market got WAY ahead of itself with a BETA test technology.  So no, there won't be another bubble up phase like the last 2 we saw.  Those I believe are aberrations in an otherwise healthy market with solid "product".  That being said, I don't think there is anything stopping the trade from moving into a more profitable growth trend ( a steeper up slope)  than what the technical analysis has presented to this point.  

So there ya have it.  

We've already hit my initial target and I've covered my shorts and started slowly adding to my holdings.  I'll back up the truck on the over correct sub 200, and then use my new long position to start day trade again.  

It's been a long time coming, but I've yet to actually lose money trading and at this point I've nearly quadrupled my fiat losses from the theft of my original trades.

----------


## newbitech

and now I note, 31,000 bitcoins at $300. (bitstamp)  THAT is why this thing will over correct, and severely so.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes, I have had some negative things to say about the implementation of the technology.  To be fair, I've always held that the technology is revolutionary.  I'm just afraid that the implementation hasn't been as solid as the underlying tech.  There are some core issues with using the technology the way it has been used.  I won't go into a lot of details to answer your question at this point, but I think it is fair to say that the technology is here to stay, just maybe not in the current mode.  It's a good foundation to build off of and I am sure as time goes on and the large capital investors learn more about how the tech is being used and can be used, will see innovations that will add much more value and the exchanges will stabilize around that more realistic valuation.  
> 
> As far my target area, I tried to go back and extend my stable growth line for the long term.  I am still focused on the pivot at $250, as I believe many people are.  If you go back and look at the largest weekly volume candles in the bitstamp chart on trading view you will note a couple of things.
> 
> 1.) Shortly after my 'octave' analysis that we are talking about, the market signaled that the pivot was actually at $320.  This was the week of 11/4 settlement price.  The week ended the same day after my analysis.  It is important to note that this week was the largest volume positive movement in the history of this trade.  
> 2.) That week began at 207  reached as high as 364 and finally settled at 320.  On the daily view for the same week, there is a high volume touch point to the down side on 11/10, the day of my analysis which I believe coincided with new about senate hearings coupled with the fall out from silk road bust.  THat touch point was 264, which at the time showed strong support for the peak of the april 2013 exuberance. 
> 3.)  The idea of the octave was to eventually challenge and retest the pivot point in this range.  A healthy strong volume bounce of that retest would indicate that the steady growth trend would reach up to a new level or octave of pricing with the new trend line RANGE setting up the low end of the range at the TOP of the high end of the old range.  
> 
> 
> ...


I'm actually really glad to hear that.  Well done, sir!  

I'll admit I'm no good at trading.  I find that I can usually spot trends pretty well, but I just don't have the nerve for it.  Your analysis helps and after initially having no exposure to the way markets work, I can see why it was extremely overpriced all of last year, so I agree with your targets and your general analysis.  Thanks for the insight.

----------


## muh_roads

To be fair to Bitcoin, everything is eating $#@! right now...stocks...metals, etc.  We're going thru another manipulated USD rally.  Fun times.

Everyone's TA says we are about to bounce to somewhere between $400-550.  Back to $600 by the end of 2014 is very possible.  It doesn't look like our next paradigm shift is happening this year though.  And for the record, I left my "group" for the most part.  The contacts made have been valuable though.  Still getting decent $#@!coin tips periodically that I will keep posting.

Also you are not alone.  There are a lot of whales who are also upset right now.  There are some mega bear whales right now being giant dicks.  And they seem to mostly be coming from China according to what a lot of ppl are saying.

Now for the depressing part.  If you follow the logarithmic chart and dial it back to 2010.  You see a pattern.  And the pattern shows a possible slow decline to $50-$150 until 2016-2017 if the period between the 2011 high, 2011 low, and 2012 doldrums is emulated.  We'll find out I guess.

Now to smoke the hopium...for the logarithmic pattern to repeat itself in an upward fashion, then it shoots to $4K...and then to $40k...lol  Which sounds ridiculous, but those VC articles I keep reading still give me hope. Tim Draper says $10K in 3 years.  Winklevoss said $40k (timeframe unknown).  If that actually happens, Bitcoin is all you will be hearing about for most of 2016-2017 since it would probably be many months of rises and ppl trying to catch the train.  It wouldn't flash overnight upwards.  The focus is still on emerging market infrastructure.

The name of the game has always been to accumulate more BTC.  Play the swings as best you can.  

Dianne,

Keep an eye on LTC.  I think you might get a chance to cash out your $7 buy soon.  Set your spread orders.  I'm just going to be watching.  Good luck.



newbitech & anyone technical,

BTC might be about to get its first major mining algo modification.  When it was described to me it didn't make any sense.  It's not PoS or a change from SHA-256.  But if I find an article about it I'll post it.  Would love to hear everyones input.

----------


## muh_roads

Also guys, PM me your e-mails.  I'm starting a "newsletter" soon.  I feel bad about the price decline since I'm probably the biggest btc cheerleader here.  I'd like to share methods I use to legally increase btc count.  I will also share ideas I'm going to soon test and try due to new companies that have appeared on the horizon.  I think metal traders will also find it interesting.

If you choose to follow what I do you do so on your own accord.  But there is no harm in just watching and sharing info with people.  I was going to charge 1 btc for lifetime membership for this newsletter on twitter, but RPF members can get in for free for a limited time.  Your feedback will also help as I tweak how I want to proceed with this.  I really don't know if it will be a newsletter format or just periodic updates.

I'll always mention other ideas and news I keep up on from time to time.  It would also be nice to turn it into a community where TA experts give their feedback also. I'd also like to see people with skills meeting other people with skills and projects develop from networking.

----------


## zeMan

> and now I note, 31,000 bitcoins at $300. (bitstamp)  THAT is why this thing will over correct, and severely so.


That was some giant market manipulation by a HUGE BTC whale. Buying up anything under 300 and gradually munching down his own wall. Up 20$ within 30 minutes of the wall disappearing.

----------


## kaleruka

how to PM?i cant find how send u my email

----------


## amonasro

The 30K wall at $300 was something. I grabbed a bit of it. Turns out it was not necessarily a master manipulator, just an early adopter cashing out to the tune of $9 million. I have a difficult time believing he bought into it himself seeing as Coinbase ran out of coins last night. That hasn't happened in quite awhile. If he stays out of the market, the long downtrend will be broken. And if he stays off the supply side of the supply & demand scale, chances are we won't be returning to sub $300 levels.

Am I crazy to think the price will go up from here?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

It's hard to know what to make of this recent transaction as some are calling it a bull trap. There's just been so many recent positive developments in the community lately and the infrastructure has been constantly being improved that it's hard to think that we won't have good times ahead once again. Also, there's so many more options for people across the world to acquire bitcoin so the next frenzy will be extremely dramatic.

----------


## nayjevin

> I am just starting to scoop. 
> 
> I don't really understand TA or projections, nor have I ever trusted any of the publicly available ones.
> 
> I just buy when I feel the time is right, and now seems like a good time to buy to me, and I will continue incremental buying if the price drops any more.




LOL @ smartest guy in thread

----------


## zeMan

Making a prediction:  Current rise will go to $434, then down to stabilize at ~$400 for a few weeks.  Then, push up to the next level and hold at around 670 for a while.

----------


## amonasro

Hey guys, hope you're all are weathering the bear market ok. It's a good time for accumulation that's for sure. 

Icy Spank has been humming along nicely and has made some good trades among many fakeouts. Currently up to 1700LTC from a 600 coin starting stash in June. Again, nice work Pres

----------


## muh_roads

Been stuck at $340 to $360 for a while.  Wedge seems to be narrowing and honing in on 350.

Long-term I think $200 will be tested.  But not before first popping back to the $400's.

EDIT: btw that's awesome amonasro.  I should run Icy as a trade consultant.

----------


## amonasro

> Been stuck at $340 to $360 for a while.  Wedge seems to be narrowing and honing in on 350.
> 
> Long-term I think $200 will be tested.  But not before first popping back to the $400's.
> 
> EDIT: btw that's awesome amonasro.  I should run Icy as a trade consultant.


I agree about 400, but I think 300 is a solid floor.  Unless the rise to 400 is a pump on low volume... If it's not I think we could see an upwards/sideways movement to retest higher resistances. The shorting brigade hasn't been fully squeezed out of this market yet... I've noticed many more traders who don't care much for the technology but will happily short it for a profit. Many of them seem to be new traders and gambling types, so they don't really know what they're doing, and the more experienced traders are having a field day with them. 

Yeah Spank has some cool features and I've learned a lot by watching it... It detects high volume pump and dumps and reacts accordingly. It's fun to watch it work, even when it makes a losing trade and has to rebuy/resell at a loss.

----------


## Dianne

> I agree about 400, but I think 300 is a solid floor.  Unless the rise to 400 is a pump on low volume... If it's not I think we could see an upwards/sideways movement to retest higher resistances. The shorting brigade hasn't been fully squeezed out of this market yet... I've noticed many more traders who don't care much for the technology but will happily short it for a profit. Many of them seem to be new traders and gambling types, so they don't really know what they're doing, and the more experienced traders are having a field day with them. 
> 
> Yeah Spank has some cool features and I've learned a lot by watching it... It detects high volume pump and dumps and reacts accordingly. It's fun to watch it work, even when it makes a losing trade and has to rebuy/resell at a loss.


I'm happy to see activity on this thread again.     Just say when to buy and when to sell for us noobs.     I see 200. and 400. mentioned, but do you guys think we will ever push 1,000. again?

----------


## amonasro

> I'm happy to see activity on this thread again.     Just say when to buy and when to sell for us noobs.     I see 200. and 400. mentioned, but do you guys think we will ever push 1,000. again?


I think the hardest thing is to properly call a bottom. I called it at $450, bought a couple. Bought more at $400. Saw the 30k sell wall @ $300, bought even more. I dollar cost averaged down, which is a good strategy if your plan is to hold onto them for awhile. I think the chance of testing 300 is low, and 200 even lower, so personally I would dollar cost average accordingly.

Will we hit $1000 again? I think so. When? I have no idea. Maybe next year sometime. 

edit: *Pres, what do you think?*

----------


## Dianne

Looks like a down turn today.    At $338. right now.

----------


## presence

> Hey guys, hope you're all are weathering the bear market ok. It's a good time for accumulation that's for sure. 
> 
> Icy Spank has been humming along nicely and has made some good trades among many fakeouts. Currently up to 1700LTC from a 600 coin starting stash in June. Again, nice work Pres



 

I have no "predictions" I haven't really been watching the markets.   I am putting some time in today on my python script.  I'm hoping as soon as snow falls, business dies for the season I'll have more time to code again... I really want to get another bot out before the end of the year.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm happy to see activity on this thread again.     Just say when to buy and when to sell for us noobs.     I see 200. and 400. mentioned, but do you guys think we will ever push 1,000. again?


It's definitely possible.  You have to think really long-term on this stuff.  Like years.  We're used to so much happening within the span of a few months, but we were obviously in a bubble for the last year and a half.  I would say 220s is a good buying point.  If it goes below 200, then it's probably going way, way down and will take a long time to recover.  As long as it stays above 200, then we're still bullish long-term.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Just eyeballing the longterm chart, ignoring the massive gox runup, the price should be around 400. 300 would be to low. I'll probably buy a couple more btc if it breaks 300.

----------


## muh_roads

This is not investment advice.  Play at your own risk.  But this is what I am watching.

On the 1D it looks like we are about to double-top or make a small run if you overlay the head of the current giant red dragon we are in with the previous.  My bets are double-top.  That means 400 range.  If it makes a run cloning the previous dragon pattern, then 500's is possible.

On the 4H I think the rebound will be just under 400, maybe breaking close to 410.  Make the assumption that the rebound will head to anywhere from 380 to 550.  Setting spread sells is best because you'll never hit them all.

On the 15M watch the swings.  I can't tell if we are on the 2nd red dragon or 3rd.  Sometimes the red dragon phase can have a 4th also I've noticed.  I think there is a chance we could scrape 300 before the rebound.

After the rebound we will hit the low 200's on the 4H.  Also remember the flash crashes?  A lot of guys scooped well.I can't help but wonder if that flash crash to 100 back in Feb or March was a whale reversal signal of some kind...

News...

FinCEN & the SEC sent out letters to "hundreds" of Crypto companies.  The money transmitter is being enforced on crypto to crypto exchanges which is bizarre.  It doesn't matter if you don't deal in USD which is BS IMO.  You must pay for the 48-state money transmitter which costs 7 figures.  This is more of an attack on $#@!coins than it is Bitcoin.  A few coveted exchanges such as Bitstamp and Coinbase are being allowed to continue.  Well-funded lobbysts now exist defending Bitcoin who can afford the regulation.  Surprise, surprise.

I would personally just ignore all this noise and just play on Bitstamp & pay your taxes.  I know that it sounds repulsive to fund a government that loves bombing brown people, but the name of the game is hoarding BTC.  The end game is helping out the emerging market regions of the world.  The majority of the world is unbanked.  Bitcoin will be upgraded soon to be used over simple SMS-text.  Those first SMS Nokia's had billions with a b made.  Countries just starting out with SMS cell-phones like Kenya are beginning.

Regarding Bitcoin upgrades, get ready for a new term...Sidechains.  They will allow for non-currency applications to use the blockchain technology while simultaneously protecting those apps by piggybacking on the security of Bitcoin's giant mining hashrate.  Also if people decide to make their $#@!coins as a sidechain instead of an alt-chain, then true decentralized P2P exchanges between BTC and the $#@!coin will be possible.

Play the swings.  I think things are still going to be wild for 2015.  Volatility is good for accumulation.  Bitcoin 2.0 with the Sidechain upgrade begins early 2016.  2016 is also the year that the mining reward halves from 25 to 12.5

----------


## muh_roads

It won't hit 380 yet.  There might be one more leg up into the 340's-350's.

----------


## muh_roads

She's starting to waffle right where I said.  If this ends wave 4 up then wave 5 down begins.

This will be bleak, IMO.  But I think we're almost out of the woods.  On the 1D it looks like we're just passing the back of the head on the 3rd red dragon.  So sliding down its back could be as low as $275.  If it breaks thru that...we may see below $200.  I hate saying that, but I'm not going to rule out $150-$200 now.

If you have been waiting to get in for the first time, keep an eye on the next couple of weeks.  We are entering despair phase.  Play the swings and scoopy scoopy.

----------


## muh_roads

Also...these were the companies I seen on the fabled xmas 2014 list if anyone remembers me mentioning this during the summer months?  I'm pissed at my former group so I am posting and don't care...

76
7Eleven
Bed Bath & Beyond
Best Buy
Chili's
Circle K
Conoco
CVS
Dick's Sporting Goods
Dunkin Donuts
ExxonMobile
GAP
Hobby Lobby
HyVee
K-Mart
Kohl's
Kum & Go (lulz)
Lowe's
Michaels
Old Navy
Olive Garden
Phillips 66
sears
Shell
Southwest Airlines
Target
Wendy's

There are others but I'm not familiar with their names.

So here is what happened...the rumor is sort of false but still might be true because of what is going on here.  It just so happens that these same companies came together to form a new payment network called "CurrentC" with the purpose of eliminating credit card fees for themselves and compete with Apple Pay.  It doesn't use NFC, it uses QR Codes only...just like Bitcoin.

The rumor persists that they will integrate with either bitpay or coinbase...but I'm really not sure now...  I'd imagine representatives from both companies are barking up their tree like mad, though.

Anywho, there you have it.  Just wanted to post because my former group can eat a bag of dicks.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Also...these were the companies I seen on the fabled xmas 2014 list if anyone remembers me mentioning this during the summer months?  I'm pissed at my former group so I am posting and don't care...
> 
> 76
> 7Eleven
> Bed Bath & Beyond
> Best Buy
> Chili's
> Circle K
> Conoco
> ...


That bad, huh?  lol

For anyone who wants some good, simple analysis, I predicted the retrace from $380 to $320 and this bull run from the $320s to now.  I'm expecting a pullback to $350 level soon, but I think it could breakout after that.

Here are my recent charts that have been deadly accurate and gotten good reviews from people:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/4ljfmnU7/
https://www.tradingview.com/v/Bwk6KCFV/
https://www.tradingview.com/v/r0fMaYgH/
https://www.tradingview.com/v/EsKMiCUU/

That last one is playing out as we speak.  For now, things are looking good.  Don't panic!

----------


## Dianne

> That bad, huh?  lol
> 
> For anyone who wants some good, simple analysis, I predicted the retrace from $380 to $320 and this bull run from the $320s to now.  I'm expecting a pullback to $350 level soon, but I think it could breakout after that.
> 
> Here are my recent charts that have been deadly accurate and gotten good reviews from people:
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/4ljfmnU7/
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/Bwk6KCFV/
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/r0fMaYgH/
> ...


Thanks for the helpful information !    I come to this thread daily for any updates I can find.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thanks for the helpful information !    I come to this thread daily for any updates I can find.


No problem.  I've got you covered.  I hope my charts help you make your decisions.  I don't like losing money and I don't want other people who may not know how to handle the market get freaked out by what's happening.

----------


## Dianne

> No problem.  I've got you covered.  I hope my charts help you make your decisions.  I don't like losing money and I don't want other people who may not know how to handle the market get freaked out by what's happening.


I'm not that great at reading the charts.    That's why I love the way you give a prediction for noobs to btc, like myself.    When you say "breakout", are you thinking a significant breakout?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not that great at reading the charts.    That's why I love the way you give a prediction for noobs to btc, like myself.    When you say "breakout", are you thinking a significant breakout?


Yes.  We have to wait and see what happens over the next few days/week, but this could be the beginning of a new bull market.

----------


## Dianne

> Yes.  We have to wait and see what happens over the next few days/week, but this could be the beginning of a new bull market.


Nice !!   I'm still playing catch up, as I bought the few I have in the $600. to $800. range after discouraging my son from buying when they were $7.00 lolol.     So happy we have this thread.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Nice !!   I'm still playing catch up, as I bought the few I have in the $600. to $800. range after discouraging my son from buying when they were $7.00 lolol.     So happy we have this thread.


I'll see if I can pop in from time to time and give you updates.  Fortunately, all of my analysis is backed by another friend of mine who's pretty big in the BTC circle and has been doing this for years.  I'll try to pass on any updates I get from him.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm convinced we're on the verge of a bullish breakout.  If not now, then soon.  Chinese exchanges are testing resistance again on nice volume, coming close to making new highs.  Bitfinex just made a new high and broke the long term downtrend.  I thought it would retrace to about $350, but we only made it to $360.  Luckily, I saw the signs and bought in at the bottom at $362.  This could be the big one...

----------


## Dianne

> I'll see if I can pop in from time to time and give you updates.  Fortunately, all of my analysis is backed by another friend of mine who's pretty big in the BTC circle and has been doing this for years.  I'll try to pass on any updates I get from him.


Thanks so much !!

----------


## amonasro

> I'm convinced we're on the verge of a bullish breakout.  If not now, then soon.  Chinese exchanges are testing resistance again on nice volume, coming close to making new highs.  Bitfinex just made a new high and broke the long term downtrend.  I thought it would retrace to about $350, but we only made it to $360.  Luckily, I saw the signs and bought in at the bottom at $362.  This could be the big one...


Good call! I was convinced of it as well. I'm studying Wyckoff at the moment and it's really great for following the big money and figuring out when they are accumulating or distributing (as the market tends to move up once supply dries up, bought by large interests, or down if there is too much supply after being sold to smaller players). It's probably the best method of understanding the market as a whole that I've read.

After the big selloff to $275, there were accumulation signs all over the place. Only one direction to go once the floating supply is gone.

http://www.hankpruden.com/MTWyckoffSchematics.pdf

^^^there's a great summary of it.

----------


## muh_roads

SR2.0 news has clearly messed up a lot of TA with all the volume it brought.  Once 370 broke I had no clue who to read.  Will follow you Paul.  Didn't know you were on tradingview.

Trollboxes have a lot more activity again.  Instead of the same 5 or 6 guys there are about 50 new usernames in there now.  Also people were talking about btc at work for the first time.  Government better stop shutting down those darkweb sites.  It is having an adverse affect.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm convinced we're on the verge of a bullish breakout.  If not now, then soon.  Chinese exchanges are testing resistance again on nice volume, coming close to making new highs.  Bitfinex just made a new high and broke the long term downtrend.  I thought it would retrace to about $350, but we only made it to $360.  Luckily, I saw the signs and bought in at the bottom at $362.  This could be the big one...


I'm gonna take a stab and say from this low 400 level we will run to 500-520 before reversal on bitfinex (price tends to be higher than the others)  btc-e tends to be cheaper...so 490-510...

What are your thoughts?

----------


## Dianne

> I'm gonna take a stab and say from this low 400 level we will run to 500-520 before reversal on bitfinex (price tends to be higher than the others)  btc-e tends to be cheaper...so 490-510...
> 
> What are your thoughts?


I'm dying to see if Paul agrees..  Normally weekends are dumps, but I have a feeling this weekend (although rare), will be pumps.     But I am wrong 75% of the time, so Paul ... your opinion?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm gonna take a stab and say from this low 400 level we will run to 500-520 before reversal on bitfinex (price tends to be higher than the others)  btc-e tends to be cheaper...so 490-510...
> 
> What are your thoughts?


I think you could be right.  It's hard to tell right now, but I think this is just a bear trap.  I'm waiting to see if $380 support holds.  

Cool story, I actually sold the very tip top of this rally, 475 on BFX.  It only touched that price for a fraction of a second, but I got my whole order filled.  I kind of botched the trade on the way up, but selling at the top has me feeling justified.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm dying to see if Paul agrees..  Normally weekends are dumps, but I have a feeling this weekend (although rare), will be pumps.     But I am wrong 75% of the time, so Paul ... your opinion?


It could stay down through the weekend and then break out again.  The volume was really nice on that rise which makes me feel like it's legit accumulation and not just a pump.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm dying to see if Paul agrees..  Normally weekends are dumps, but I have a feeling this weekend (although rare), will be pumps.     But I am wrong 75% of the time, so Paul ... your opinion?


You mentioned how you bought up in the $600s.  Have you been holding ever since then?

----------


## amonasro

We either bounce down to test $350ish again, or the squiggly support around $400 (more or less) holds and we go back up for awhile, pulling us out of the bear market once and for all. We would likely be "in the foothills" for awhile as we drift back to $800 (one can hope) and the media hype starts again. It already has if you've been paying attention. Perception is so powerful in this market, so if price pulls out of its rut it would be a clear signal to everyone. I do think we'll be back above $500 for the holidays at the very least.

In other news I'm feeling pretty good about my XCP investment... sitting on 40% gains there. No miners, no bagholders, 2.6 million coins, uses BTC blockchain, and they just assimilated Ethereum's functionality (which was open source). Really the best altcoin I could recommend at this point, even though I don't recommend them

----------


## amonasro

Also, pres, your bot bought at $4.11 after I was tearing my eyes out waiting for it to buy the pump.

BAD BOT... BAAAD BOT!!

----------


## Dianne

> You mentioned how you bought up in the $600s.  Have you been holding ever since then?


No, I sold at a loss thinking I could buy low and it would skyrocket again and I could recover losses.   Then I moved it over to LTC when LTC was around 13.00, and you know how well that turned out lol.     I am truthfully the worst btc investor in the world.     That's why I appreciate this thread so much.

----------


## Dianne

> We either bounce down to test $350ish again, or the squiggly support around $400 (more or less) holds and we go back up for awhile, pulling us out of the bear market once and for all. We would likely be "in the foothills" for awhile as we drift back to $800 (one can hope) and the media hype starts again. It already has if you've been paying attention. Perception is so powerful in this market, so if price pulls out of its rut it would be a clear signal to everyone. I do think we'll be back above $500 for the holidays at the very least.
> 
> In other news I'm feeling pretty good about my XCP investment... sitting on 40% gains there. No miners, no bagholders, 2.6 million coins, uses BTC blockchain, and they just assimilated Ethereum's functionality (which was open source). Really the best altcoin I could recommend at this point, even though I don't recommend them


That drifting back to $800. sure sounds good.   Let's keep our fingers crossed !!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No, I sold at a loss thinking I could buy low and it would skyrocket again and I could recover losses.   Then I moved it over to LTC when LTC was around 13.00, and you know how well that turned out lol.     I am truthfully the worst btc investor in the world.     That's why I appreciate this thread so much.


Ok.  I just hope you're not trying to trade with your whole bank account.

----------


## Crashland

> Ok.  I just hope you're not trying to trade with your whole bank account.


Well, the larger the risk, the larger the reward right :-P

As for me, I have a pretty bold amount invested in bitcoin, but it is not more than I can afford to lose. My average cost basis is right around where the price is now, a little less than $390. Don't plan to ever sell unless we top $1200, then I may sell the original basis and hold onto the rest. If it goes to $0, well, I might as well buy the rest of the 21 million bitcoins for pennies as a collector's item, a historical relic - the first-ever, epically-failed cryptocurrency :-P

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well, the larger the risk, the larger the reward right :-P
> 
> As for me, I have a pretty bold amount invested in bitcoin, but it is not more than I can afford to lose. My average cost basis is right around where the price is now, a little less than $390. Don't plan to ever sell unless we top $1200, then I may sell the original basis and hold onto the rest. If it goes to $0, well, I might as well buy the rest of the 21 million bitcoins for pennies as a collector's item, a historical relic - the first-ever, epically-failed cryptocurrency :-P


There are two sides to that coin.  Be careful.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Here's my latest idea from Tradingview:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/U4sOIZ8l/

Watch the $420 level.  If it breaks through that, then I expect a run to $500 and declare the bull market official.  I'm optimistic about this because it seems like this may have been a bear trap, although we don't know that yet.  It held through the weekend and now the start of a new week brings with it new hopes.

----------


## Dianne

> Here's my latest idea from Tradingview:
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/U4sOIZ8l/
> 
> Watch the $420 level.  If it breaks through that, then I expect a run to $500 and declare the bull market official.  I'm optimistic about this because it seems like this may have been a bear trap, although we don't know that yet.  It held through the weekend and now the start of a new week brings with it new hopes.


kk, thx for posting... will be watching )))   Thanks much !!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Price failed at $420.  The bear market may last quite a bit longer 

https://www.tradingview.com/e/KFnFtzVx/

----------


## Dianne

> Price failed at $420.  The bear market may last quite a bit longer 
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/e/KFnFtzVx/


kk, thanks for the update !

----------


## Scrooge McDuck

> Price failed at $420.  The bear market may last quite a bit longer 
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/e/KFnFtzVx/



Good news as far as I'm concerned. More time for stacking.

----------


## Crashland

If it drifts down and bounces off $330 by Thanksgiving then I am thinking this might be the tail end of the last corrective wave. My outlook for the next 4 months is very bullish. Just going based off the simplest charts on the log scale, I think everyone will be expecting a significant rally or a bubble. Could end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy

----------


## Dianne

> If it drifts down and bounces off $330 by Thanksgiving then I am thinking this might be the tail end of the last corrective wave. My outlook for the next 4 months is very bullish. Just going based off the simplest charts on the log scale, I think everyone will be expecting a significant rally or a bubble. Could end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy


I just have this feeling someone like the Feds are manipulating btc at the moment to keep it volatile.   Of course the Feds have unlimited resources from your bank account and mine to keep btc as low as possible.      I'm hoping for a rally myself, but time will tell.

----------


## newbitech

well defined descending triangle on the daily chart.  Bearish outlook in the short medium term very tentative long term support exists at the bottom of the triangle around 370ish on bitstamp which coincides with the much larger descending triangle pattern from the AtH.  

this correction is far from over IMO.  You've got little to no support under 370 so I expect a quick ride back down to the 100% retrace on the medium term counter trend launch pad of around 310 level and a possible bounce from there. 

340's mid next week

and start off December  around 310ish with a set up to make a run at the 260 coming out party peek by the beginning of the year. 

I think we retest that 275 print from the first week of Oct. in the beginning of the year.  I also think that doesn't hold up and we get down in the mid to low 250's 1st quarter 2015.

*Edit* I think we really need to dip below 200 for the correction to have run it's full course and really test this market.

----------


## newbitech

here is a nice picture for you.  Book it

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Good news as far as I'm concerned. More time for stacking.


I shouldn't act so certain.  A rebound is still in the cards.  I just don't know what's going to happen right now.

----------


## muh_roads

> I shouldn't act so certain.  A rebound is still in the cards.  I just don't know what's going to happen right now.


Yeah we have a triple bottom.

I think newbitech is correct, but there still may be an up wave in play before that happens.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah we have a triple bottom.
> 
> I think newbitech is correct, but there still may be an up wave in play before that happens.


Triple bottom?  Where?  You know those things aren't confirmed until they break the neckline, right?  

Here's my latest chart.  Good buying opportunity in the $350s, just not sure how far up it will go.  $415 could be retested.

https://www.tradingview.com/v/fGGUeUjV/

----------


## muh_roads

> Triple bottom?  Where?  You know those things aren't confirmed until they break the neckline, right?  
> 
> Here's my latest chart.  Good buying opportunity in the $350s, just not sure how far up it will go.  $415 could be retested.
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/fGGUeUjV/


Yeah my comment became old news within hours...lol  This is getting pretty volatile again for sure.

Sorry I follow Bitfinex now instead of Bitstamp.  They seem to lead in USD volume.  I don't trade there, just follow since they seem to be the 2nd market mover "predictor" if you follow the macd waves on 1m.  The one everyone follows seems to be OKCoin CNY.  China owns 60% of the BTC, supposedly.  After following macd trends on the 1m I've noticed you can stay ahead of the Chinese market if something big is about to move.

I'm not trading it.  Just taking notes.

On Bitfinex 4H it bounced once, then 2nd bottom was almost the same as the first...mid 360 range.  It looked like there was going to be a 3rd bottom in the same spot last night but then it broke thru to where we are now.

BTW, you aren't the only chartist out there that is saying this is bullish.    People are calling this a Wolfe Waves Pattern?

Nice updates on Tradingview.  I'm following.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah my comment became old news within hours...lol  This is getting pretty volatile again for sure.
> 
> Sorry I follow Bitfinex now instead of Bitstamp.  They seem to lead in USD volume.  I don't trade there, just follow since they seem to be the 2nd market mover "predictor" if you follow the macd waves on 1m.  The one everyone follows seems to be OKCoin CNY.  China owns 60% of the BTC, supposedly.  After following macd trends on the 1m I've noticed you can stay ahead of the Chinese market if something big is about to move.
> 
> I'm not trading it.  Just taking notes.
> 
> On Bitfinex 4H it bounced once, then 2nd bottom was almost the same as the first...mid 360 range.  It looked like there was going to be a 3rd bottom in the same spot last night but then it broke thru to where we are now.
> 
> BTW, you aren't the only chartist out there that is saying this is bullish.    People are calling this a Wolfe Waves Pattern?
> ...


Thanks.  I never use the 1m time frame, though.  There's just way too much noise.

----------


## newbitech

good stuff.

I noticed the hammer today (potential bullish reverse in the short term trend perhaps?)  and decided to refresh my candlestick knowledge.  

The candles oft get overlooked.  They chart the primary indicator (price) intra-period moves.

Nice resource.

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...o_candlesticks

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

I predict it will go up or down in the near term with a high probably of going down or up in the mid to long term.

----------


## Dianne

> I predict it will go up or down in the near term with a high probably of going down or up in the mid to long term.


That one has my head spinning.    That I do know, there is a high probability of going up or down in the near future.    Just which direction is what I would love to know )))

----------


## Crashland

> That one has my head spinning.    That I do know, there is a high probability of going up or down in the near future.    Just which direction is what I would love to know )))


I don't believe in short term trading unless trading *is* your job,  because if it isn't your job, then there are others who do make it their  job and will do it better than you. I try not to give people short-term advice, but at this point I would say for people looking to enter and currently have no bitcoins, the current valuation looks very attractive with a long term horizon. In my opinion, it is very unlikely for the value of bitcoin in 5 years to be anywhere in the range $10-$700 -- I think it is very likely to either _catastrophically_ collapse, or more than double in that timeframe, in which case it could be worth more than a few multiples of what it is now. It's like buying a stock option. But whatever you do, if you are speculating in bitcoin, know your plan in advance and never panic-sell or panic-buy

----------


## muh_roads

> I don't believe in short term trading unless trading *is* your job,  because if it isn't your job, then there are others who do make it their  job and will do it better than you. I try not to give people short-term advice, but at this point I would say for people looking to enter and currently have no bitcoins, the current valuation looks very attractive with a long term horizon. In my opinion, it is very unlikely for the value of bitcoin in 5 years to be anywhere in the range $10-$700 -- I think it is very likely to either _catastrophically_ collapse, or more than double in that timeframe, in which case it could be worth more than a few multiples of what it is now. It's like buying a stock option. But whatever you do, if you are speculating in bitcoin, know your plan in advance and never panic-sell or panic-buy


Yeah only look at the 4H chart, IMO.  Maybe the 15M if you are trying to get in and can sorta get a feel for the up/down macd waves.

prediction...
Whales are eating stop losses.  We touched 340's...I'm wondering if we'll bounce here to 370's before falling back again...

----------


## Dianne

> I don't believe in short term trading unless trading *is* your job,  because if it isn't your job, then there are others who do make it their  job and will do it better than you. I try not to give people short-term advice, but at this point I would say for people looking to enter and currently have no bitcoins, the current valuation looks very attractive with a long term horizon. In my opinion, it is very unlikely for the value of bitcoin in 5 years to be anywhere in the range $10-$700 -- I think it is very likely to either _catastrophically_ collapse, or more than double in that timeframe, in which case it could be worth more than a few multiples of what it is now. It's like buying a stock option. But whatever you do, if you are speculating in bitcoin, know your plan in advance and never panic-sell or panic-buy


You're right about the panic buying/selling.   That is what really cost me dearly over the past year ( .

----------


## djthistle01

Hello, it's been a long time. Been running some TA services. Here is what I suspect:

http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2014/1...c-nov-18-2014/

basically a scoop up into a distribution wave in early december and then down to 224ish. I picked the flash crash and general bottom based on a unique indicator. I think feb 27, and aug 25th will provide interesting results. I think the 27 could be BTC bouncing out of the depression phase into a rally. August 25th might me the DOW, S&P top so many have been waiting for.

I always mean to come here more, but i always run out of time. hit me up on the website or twitter some time.
https://twitter.com/djthistle01

cheers.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That one has my head spinning.    That I do know, there is a high probability of going up or down in the near future.    Just which direction is what I would love to know )))


My vote is up right now.  Black Friday coming up, BTC auction on Dec. 4th.  Could confirm a new bull market.  This would not be a bad place to buy longer term.

----------


## Dianne

> My vote is up right now.  Black Friday coming up, BTC auction on Dec. 4th.  Could confirm a new bull market.  This would not be a bad place to buy longer term.


Do you think we might see high $200's before the bull market takes off?     I was wondering if peeps would be selling for Christmas cash and the btc auction would flood the market a little?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Do you think we might see high $200's before the bull market takes off?     I was wondering if peeps would be selling for Christmas cash and the btc auction would flood the market a little?


I think the probability of that happening is becoming less and less.  The long term uptrend line is already in that region right now and we are convincingly breaking through the long-term downtrend as we speak, as I show here:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/Naj51Awa/

Also, I haven't put this in an idea yet, but as you know I use lunar cycles as an indicator sometimes.  I noted how the three full supermoons this summer, which are normally bullish, had no effect on the price, meaning the downtrend would continue for quite some time, which it did.  After that, the moons seemed to fall back into sync again, full moon up, new moon down, but this latest new moon seems to have had no effect on the price, which leads me to think that the bull market could last quite a bit longer.  Look for parabolic moves.  If it starts going up really, really fast, then that's when you should sell.  Don't buy on a parabolic up unless you know what you're doing.  If we get to the point where we're breaking all-time highs, then it's really anybody's guess where we turn around.  Volume is the best indicator in that situation and I'll try to let you know if I think it's a good time to sell, but for now, I think we're going up.

Remember, though, trading is a risky business and this is not investment advice.  I'm just letting you know what I think.

----------


## Crashland

There is a clearly defined symmetric triangle pattern almost completed on the daily. It will be interesting to see which direction it breaks in the next 0-4 days. With the 50,000-coin auction on Dec. 4 too, I'm thinking we could see some decent movement this week.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> There is a clearly defined symmetric triangle pattern almost completed on the daily. It will be interesting to see which direction it breaks in the next 0-4 days. With the 50,000-coin auction on Dec. 4 too, I'm thinking we could see some decent movement this week.


Seconded.  I think we're about to take off this week.  The price is walking through that downtrend line as we speak.  Just retested, but doesn't want to stay under.

----------


## Dianne

> Seconded.  I think we're about to take off this week.  The price is walking through that downtrend line as we speak.  Just retested, but doesn't want to stay under.


Let's hope so.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Let's hope so.


People are waiting for the auction news tomorrow.  Whatever happens, it'll probably happen tomorrow.  I'm still leaning toward bullish.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Let's hope so.


People are waiting for the auction news tomorrow.  Whatever happens, it'll probably happen tomorrow.  I'm still leaning toward bullish.

----------


## Dianne

> People are waiting for the auction news tomorrow.  Whatever happens, it'll probably happen tomorrow.  I'm still leaning toward bullish.


Oh I forgot about that.    I'm stuck in ppc atm, so I better swiftly switch back over.

----------


## Crashland

And...it's Friday and the price hasn't moved an inch since start of week lol.
I still think it will move pretty big soon though. On my chart it still hasn't broken either side of a symmetric triangle that began forming at the start of November. Look for if it breaks above or below range $360-$380

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Oh I forgot about that.    I'm stuck in ppc atm, so I better swiftly switch back over.


I haven't traded altcoins in a long time.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> And...it's Friday and the price hasn't moved an inch since start of week lol.
> I still think it will move pretty big soon though. On my chart it still hasn't broken either side of a symmetric triangle that began forming at the start of November. Look for if it breaks above or below range $360-$380


I have the same idea.  Here's my chart:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/gT6K51x0/

This is a great opportunity to wait for a break of the triangle and just buy or sell depending on whether it breaks up or down.

----------


## muh_roads

> I have the same idea.  Here's my chart:
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/gT6K51x0/
> 
> This is a great opportunity to wait for a break of the triangle and just buy or sell depending on whether it breaks up or down.


Glad to see you have been charting bitfinex now.  Bitstamp has really been bleeding users...

https://twitter.com/btcdrak/status/541582848743211009

----------


## Dianne

> Glad to see you have been charting bitfinex now.  Bitstamp has really been bleeding users...
> 
> https://twitter.com/btcdrak/status/541582848743211009


Starting to wonder if all the exchanges are manipulating the prices.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Glad to see you have been charting bitfinex now.  Bitstamp has really been bleeding users...
> 
> https://twitter.com/btcdrak/status/541582848743211009


I hadn't been aware of that, but I still think they're both pretty good for charting.  BTCe less so.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Bitcoin just broke down out of the triangle it was in, as shown in my previous chart.  It doesn't look good for bitcoin.  I'm shorting.

----------


## Dianne

> Bitcoin just broke down out of the triangle it was in, as shown in my previous chart.  It doesn't look good for bitcoin.  I'm shorting.


Thanks for the info !!    Now I need a quick lesson in "shorting" lolol.     Can you do that on BTC-e?

----------


## muh_roads

> Thanks for the info !!    Now I need a quick lesson in "shorting" lolol.     Can you do that on BTC-e?


This definition confuses easily.  Shorting just simply means selling.  If I was buying Bitcoin, I'd say I'm shorting dollars.

If you want to profit from betting against BTC, then Bitfinex is what you want to use.  This is probably the "definition" of shorting you have in your head

----------


## muh_roads

> Starting to wonder if all the exchanges are manipulating the prices.


I'm only aware of Huobi and OKCoin doing a full audit.  They were clean.

----------


## Crashland

> This definition confuses easily.  Shorting just simply means selling.  If I was buying Bitcoin, I'd say I'm shorting dollars.
> 
> If you want to profit from betting against BTC, then Bitfinex is what you want to use.  This is probably the "definition" of shorting you have in your head


Yes, there's a difference between selling something that you own, versus borrowing something, selling it, with the intent to buy it back later at a lower price to return to the lender. When I think of shorting I think of the latter.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thanks for the info !!    Now I need a quick lesson in "shorting" lolol.     Can you do that on BTC-e?


I think you can, but I use Bitfinex, and I find it rather easy.  I haven't used BTCe in a long time.  It's one of the smaller exchanges now.  I wouldn't know what to tell you about BTCe.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes, there's a difference between selling something that you own, versus borrowing something, selling it, with the intent to buy it back later at a lower price to return to the lender. When I think of shorting I think of the latter.


Yes, that's basically what it is.  It's not a terribly hard concept, you just need to know which buttons to push on the platform.

----------


## muh_roads

Instead of shorting, margin trading, etc...has anyone tried offering up their own BTC as a liquidity swap on Bitfinex?  I was wondering what the return was like?

----------


## Dianne

Oh my, the good ole trollbox is yelling btc to $50.00 .    Thanks for the info on Bitfinex, I'm on my way to check it out.

----------


## muh_roads

> Oh my, the good ole trollbox is yelling btc to $50.00 .    Thanks for the info on Bitfinex, I'm on my way to check it out.


If you don't feel comfortable trading, you can earn a rate of return doing the liquidity swap thing, also.

It's like the old days when you put money in savings, and this was used to loan to someone else for a nice rate of return. Back when interest rates were actually good.

I have no clue what kind of % return u get for this though...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Instead of shorting, margin trading, etc...has anyone tried offering up their own BTC as a liquidity swap on Bitfinex?  I was wondering what the return was like?


It's not great.  I've tried it and you can get anywhere from .07-.1% per day, so if you have a lot of money just lying around, it might be worth it, but for some reason the contracts never seen to last the whole time unless you offer them for well below the going rate, so the swaps will be canceled and you have to keep putting them back in to keep the returns coming.  It's very low risk.  There's very little chance that you will lose anything unless there is a flash crash and the borrowers get liquidated and can't pay you back.  It hasn't happened in years, but just be aware.  Again, if you have enough money to make a decent return with .07-.1% returns and you don't want to deal with the stress of trading other than constantly trying to pick up swap contracts, then it might be worth it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Oh my, the good ole trollbox is yelling btc to $50.00 .    Thanks for the info on Bitfinex, I'm on my way to check it out.


That's why it's called the troll box.  

Here's my latest idea:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/u2cmUOyh/

I'm bearish for now, but I'm watching the $250 price level for a potential reversal.  We are still in what looks like a bullish pennant, so we will be able to better tell what the long term outlook is for bitcoin once the price breaks out of this long-term consolidation pattern either way.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Do you have a "Referrer code" for bitfinex?  I will sign up with it.  Your strategy sounds like a great idea, so I want to give you whatever the benefit is for a referral.  Thanks.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Do you have a "Referrer code" for bitfinex?  I will sign up with it.  Your strategy sounds like a great idea, so I want to give you whatever the benefit is for a referral.  Thanks.


I assume you were responding to me.  I'm sorry, but I don't have a referral code.  I'm not sure how one might get one.

----------


## Crashland

Microsoft just announced a few minutes ago that they will accept bitcoin to fund windows live/xbox live accounts

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/micr...itcoin-bitpay/

Market had been selling off before that but it just jumped from $340 to $360

----------


## muh_roads

Nice bounce off of 340's

B-B-B-Bounce




Lets see if this causes a run to mid 400's...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I spoke too soon.  I've just been made an associate, so I can offer referral codes for Bitfinex and you will get 10% off of fees for the first month.  PM me if you're interested.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

In TA news, the bounce stopped at $365 resistance as I expected, so if volume starts declining as we bounce up against this resistance, then I expect the downtrend to continue.

----------


## presence

Tradewave now has *2 YEARS of backtesting* in a single click (takes about a minute):





...and I've just manifested a python script that gets over 1900X CASH return since 1/2013 (76X BTC) 

200 lines of code, 100% Simple Moving Average indicators.

----------


## presence

90X BTC 2350X CASH

----------


## muh_roads

> 90X BTC 2350X CASH


That's awesome dude.  Can it run simulated mode to use as an assistant?

Glad to have you back.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

https://www.tradingview.com/v/W0CqL4qU/

Still bearish for now, but watch $350, as per my chart.

----------


## Crashland

> https://www.tradingview.com/v/W0CqL4qU/
> 
> Still bearish for now, but watch $350, as per my chart.


You mean $320? I'm thinking it probably still has another leg down. Maybe bounce up from $300 or $285. There's a big long term log-scale support line down in that area.

----------


## Dianne

It was 313.00 last time I looked at btc-e today.   With the weekend coming up, I can't help but think we will dip below $300., but I am an unsuccessful trader so don't take my word as gospel.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You mean $320? I'm thinking it probably still has another leg down. Maybe bounce up from $300 or $285. There's a big long term log-scale support line down in that area.


No, I meant $350.  that is our overhead resistance, so if it breaks that, then we might have another bull run.  I think in the meantime we will have a small retracement and then possibly continue down if we don't break $350, represented by the dotted green line in the chart.

If it breaks below $315 on Stamp, which was the low today, then get ready for a big dump.

----------


## Crashland

I am thinking there will be selling pressure all the way through to the end of the year, for tax purposes because this year bitcoin is down and stocks are up. If they realize their bitcoin losses, then they can write them off as capital losses against the capital gains they probably made in the stock market.

----------


## presence

> That's awesome dude.  Can it run simulated mode to use as an assistant?
> 
> Glad to have you back.


It wouldn't be hard to code in a patch for that.   

I've been reading along.  

My focus fell away from bitcoin and bots for a few months in the summer.  Just didn't have time for it.  I also wanted to see how sucessful my Spank code was.  I still don't have time for trading bitcoin... but for the past 30 days I have made time for a fresh outlook on python bots; I'm back to my roots on the significance and timing of 12h MA's as the primary indicator a long trading bot should be concerned with.  Much can be gleaned from the slope, breadth, and twist-order of 30,60,90 12h MA's relative to close.  



The noteworthy thing we can all glean right now about that bot:

12/09 12:00 SELL $346

holding cash




I've petitioned for "closed source public code" at tradewave.  This would allow anyone to trade along with it as a "trading assistant" without me having to give away source code; it wouldn't trade for them.


I proposed a whole business model the other day for bot sales:




> _Successful web enterprises depends on the 3 C's:_
>   Content - in case you haven't noticed this place blows away the competition
> Community - we've got the spawn of something very special here
> *Commerce - tradewave is definitely lacking on P2P commerce*
>   P2P commerce is what allows botsmiths to bring in the paying customers.
>   Right now my only option is to sell open source code. I did this at  other sites and I'm very hesitant to do that again because there is a  tendency for people to resell my work and undercut me on stuff I spent  weeks on.   
> *I Propose a Simple Roadmap for Vibrant P2P Sales:* *1) Hidden source code.*  Ideally there would be 5  types of source code: 
> _Currently we have:_
> *PRIVATE* - Only the owner can see it and modify it.
> ...




https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/trad...ggestions/51/6

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I am thinking there will be selling pressure all the way through to the end of the year, for tax purposes because this year bitcoin is down and stocks are up. If they realize their bitcoin losses, then they can write them off as capital losses against the capital gains they probably made in the stock market.


We shall see...

----------


## zeMan

OkCoin now has 20x leveraged BTC trading... you can make some serious money on there if you know what you're doing

----------


## amonasro

> OkCoin now has 20x leveraged BTC trading... you can make some serious money on there if you know what you're doing


Problem there is that you get margin called on tiny price movements... not really worth the risk.

----------


## muh_roads

It's just not worth selling right now if you rode it down.  Might as well wait to see how 300 is tested at these levels since it is so close...

Bitfinex seems way oversold.  It is usually $10 higher than btc-e.  It is strange seeing it on par or below now. Lots of people must've been margin called or something on 'finex.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Problem there is that you get margin called on tiny price movements... not really worth the risk.


Yeah, I'd be uber-careful trading with that much leverage.  That's just asking for trouble.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's just not worth selling right now if you rode it down.  Might as well wait to see how 300 is tested at these levels since it is so close...
> 
> Bitfinex seems way oversold.  It is usually $10 higher than btc-e.  It is strange seeing it on par or below now. Lots of people must've been margin called or something on 'finex.


I think we may get a bounce here, but I'm pretty convinced that we're going sub-300 for a panic.  We still haven't seen a lot of volume yet and no real bounce which tells me this is a healthy trend which hasn't reversed yet.  I think we need to see $240-260 before a real reversal.  A break below $300 would be a good short opportunity and then go long somewhere around the $250 area when you see high volume and fast, panicky selling because that's when it's bound to reverse.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

20x trading. hrmmmm....

20 x 40=800 BTC, so 800 bucks per dollar price swing. hrmmm...

So, to make a 100K bucks. BTC would have to gain 125 dollars at full leverage. 

That might be worth it it if caught a rapid price dip.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 20x trading. hrmmmm....
> 
> 20 x 40=800 BTC, so 800 bucks per dollar price swing. hrmmm...
> 
> So, to make a 100K bucks. BTC would have to gain 125 dollars at full leverage. 
> 
> That might be worth it it if caught a rapid price dip.


It would have to be fast, and it almost certainly wouldn't be THAT fast.  Imagine how quick the fees would stack up.

----------


## Crashland

Putting money in bitcoin this early is already only for those with extremely high risk tolerance. 20x leverage is straight up casino gambling

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> Putting money in bitcoin this early is already only for those with extremely high risk tolerance. 20x leverage is straight up casino gambling


Naw, putting money in bitcoin this early is for people that hate the banks, and understand that in large part power extends from the financial system. Also it's for people that value decentralized systems as opposed to centralized systems that are easily corruptible. 

It bothers me that the price is falling, but what good is money if not to try to kill that which you hate. If a better solution comes about I'll get into that as well. Also as soon as openbazaar gets "finalized" I'll start searching there first for online buys. 

Decentralization is the only real way to change anything, it's to easy to control a few choke points, but try to control 100000 points, and it becomes more difficult. 

Essentially I support any legit system that promotes decentralization of anything, bitcoin is one tech. 3d printers another, openbazaar another, ethereum will be another. Sooner or later something is going to stick, and the world will be better for it.

----------


## Barrex

I thought that "Microsoft implementing Bitcoin" would keep the price from falling or get it even higher.

----------


## Crashland

> I thought that "Microsoft implementing Bitcoin" would keep the price from falling or get it even higher.


In my view, the whole problem with 2014 has been that vendor acceptance of bitcoin has boomed, and it has boomed much faster than the customer demand to actually acquire bitcoins. People who already had bitcoins were spending them in all the new places, and then those vendors were selling it for fiat. If companies were as quick to start offering to pay some or all of employee wages/salary in bitcoin, then that would have counteracted the selling pressure. Imagine the effect if Microsoft, instead of just adding bitcoin as a payment method, if they had also offered their 128,000 employees the option to receive some or all of their paycheck in bitcoin. If that starts happening, bitcoin will, as they say, "go to the moon". The question is when, or if, that will happen.

----------


## muh_roads

> I thought that "Microsoft implementing Bitcoin" would keep the price from falling or get it even higher.


btw, there are rumors that Ford Motors will be the next big Fortune 500 company to accept BTC.

To try and answer your question, whales are $#@!ing around as they always do.  I know a few first-hand that are constantly accumulating for more via consolidation.

Play the swings.  The Bitcoin ecosystem will work itself out again.  Right now there is a perfect $#@!storm of a ridiculously high mining hashrate...combined with centralized mining where the ASIC makers are overcharging too much...combined with large retail adoption where Bitpay & Coinbase are dumping for fiat.

When next-gen ASIC is affordable again in a way that makes sense with the difficulty...and suppliers/distributors/retailers are keeping more and more of their sales in BTC by exchanging between each other directly, cashing out fiat less and less (it will happen) is when things will get nuts again, IMO.

People say 2015 will be the year for Bitcoin, but the more I think about it, the more I believe 2016 will be the big year.  The mining reward per block will halve from 25 BTC to 12.5 BTC in 2016.  2015 I think will still be a really good year.  Especially for those who are accumulating and learning how to trade.

Trading BTC requires balls of steel.  Eyes on the prize.  Financial freedom is not an overnight thing.

----------


## presence

> The noteworthy thing we can all glean right now about that bot:
> 
> 12/09 12:00 SELL $346
> 
> holding cash


more on this...

that was 12h candles, but at a finer resolution on 5m candles; the same code yeilds:

[2014-12-09 06:45:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-12-09 06:45:00]  SELL: 1000.00 BTC

in the code "mode 3" was just triggered  

when entering mode three the first rule is sell





```
if ((resistance < MA150) and (MA2 < MA90) and (MA2 < MA150)):
   red_dragon = True
```

MA150 etc are 12h candle SMA's of their respective number.

I consider resistance a "proprietary" line, but you can see it plotted here with the last 3 occurances of the beginning of what I'm calling a "red_dragon" event pinpointed in white:



The image is of the past two year: April 2013 (gox) and November 2013 (china) bubbles until present.  Per the way I've been defining a long bear slide: The beginning of a fourth "red dragon" is Dec 9th 2014. 



_image may extend off edge of screen; right click "view image" for full_



litepresence says:

_
to da flo_



anyone wanna relay that one for me to btc-e trollbox; maybe with a link to the image or this post?





> You has been banned. 779916 min left





eta: nevermind... litepresence2 account still live

----------


## muh_roads

The MACD on the 4H looks good for a potential run.

Ultimately tho, ya...to da flo.  $200?  Not for a little while tho IMO...many elliot wave bounces will happen before arrival.

Bounce feels close.  If 300 w/ a margin of error (-5%) doesn't show resistance I'll be surprised.

----------


## presence

I'm looking for 2+ weeks of bear slide.

----------


## presence

image may extend off edge of screen; right click "view image" for full

This chart shows breadth marks of both "green_dragon" and "red_dragon" events from 1/2013 to present.  I use these events as *upper level indicators* to break my code into 4 phases:



*1. Green Dragon*
 2. Post Green Dragon
*3. Red Dragon*
 4. Post Red Dragon



  I trade each of the 4 types of events under a different set of rules.   This has been a hallmark of my trading theory since I got into bot  building.

Here's the April 2013 bubble zoomed in:

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Possibly looking for a big move down to the $250 level, which I think is the most likely outcome right now.  This is a very good opportunity because it just so happens that the end of a huge, year-long triangle meets right at that point with the long-term uptrend line that has never been broken yet.  If we bounce strong there, then we could be headed to new all-time highs.  I'm looking to buy at $250 and hold long-term.  If that doesn't happen, however, watch to see if $350 level is broken, and look for a possible buy there.  

Here's my last chart:  
https://www.tradingview.com/v/yjL30BU0/

Good luck!

----------


## Dianne

> Possibly looking for a big move down to the $250 level, which I think is the most likely outcome right now.  This is a very good opportunity because it just so happens that the end of a huge, year-long triangle meets right at that point with the long-term uptrend line that has never been broken yet.  If we bounce strong there, then we could be headed to new all-time highs.  I'm looking to buy at $250 and hold long-term.  If that doesn't happen, however, watch to see if $350 level is broken, and look for a possible buy there.  
> 
> Here's my last chart:  
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/yjL30BU0/
> 
> Good luck!


Do you think we will continue going sideways through the rest of December?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Do you think we will continue going sideways through the rest of December?


I doubt it.  According to my model and other people I follow, this last crash should happen relatively quickly.  If it were to move sideways for an extended period of time, I would start becoming more bullish.  I'm bullish long term anyway, but I wouldn't be expecting a crash first if that were the case.

----------


## presence

How to plot a “cloud” indicator

----------


## Dianne

> I doubt it.  According to my model and other people I follow, this last crash should happen relatively quickly.  If it were to move sideways for an extended period of time, I would start becoming more bullish.  I'm bullish long term anyway, but I wouldn't be expecting a crash first if that were the case.


Thanks !!  I'll be sure to set my buys tonight before bed.    Are you also looking at XPY/Paycoin.   The trollbox is on fire for this coin.

----------


## amonasro

I see a fairly traditional Wyckoff accumulation phase playing out right now. I've been trading it since the bottom out at $275 when I got a piece of the $300 30,000 coin sell wall. A high-volume selloff and subsequent "no-supply" or automatic rally define the high and low areas of the trading range. If it is true accumulation, we should see sell volume taper off at the lows of the range (~$280-300) and increase at the range highs (~$400-$430) as the available coin supply is absorbed by whales, smart money and professional interests who want to buy at wholesale prices and sell to the general public during a markup phase. 

Anyway, I'm long at $305. The sellers are clearly running out of ammo, even though there is not a lot of buying pressure (probably due to the holidays) so the price has been drifting up.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thanks !!  I'll be sure to set my buys tonight before bed.    Are you also looking at XPY/Paycoin.   The trollbox is on fire for this coin.


No, I only trade BTC.  I don't pay any attention to the trollbox.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I see a fairly traditional Wyckoff accumulation phase playing out right now. I've been trading it since the bottom out at $275 when I got a piece of the $300 30,000 coin sell wall. A high-volume selloff and subsequent "no-supply" or automatic rally define the high and low areas of the trading range. If it is true accumulation, we should see sell volume taper off at the lows of the range (~$280-300) and increase at the range highs (~$400-$430) as the available coin supply is absorbed by whales, smart money and professional interests who want to buy at wholesale prices and sell to the general public during a markup phase. 
> 
> Anyway, I'm long at $305. The sellers are clearly running out of ammo, even though there is not a lot of buying pressure (probably due to the holidays) so the price has been drifting up.


That pump really put a dent in my bearish outlook.  I'm not necessarily looking for a large drop anymore, but I'm still watching to see if I have an excuse to go full bull.  There may be another pullback to $320s even if we don't go lower than that.  The average trader is starting to wise up to the fact that the bear market might be ending, and it could lead to a massive accumulation phase followed by possibly another mania phase, aka bubble.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I would hold off on those buy orders for a little while longer.  It may still go down.  I think I underestimated how little of December was left, but it may take a bit longer to reach the bottom.  If it breaks above $340, then I would consider that a buy signal, but I really don't expect that to happen just yet.

----------


## Dianne

> I would hold off on those buy orders for a little while longer.  It may still go down.  I think I underestimated how little of December was left, but it may take a bit longer to reach the bottom.  If it breaks above $340, then I would consider that a buy signal, but I really don't expect that to happen just yet.


I'll keep my eyes on it.    It wish it would do something, one way or the other.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'll keep my eyes on it.    It wish it would do something, one way or the other.


Patience, young grasshopper.  We've been in a year-long descending wedge, and things are bound to get less volatile toward the end.  We'll find out soon enough, but now probably isn't the best time to buy in yet.

----------


## muh_roads

Well that's what I get for supporting 330...it then decides to drop to 320.  Gotta love that whale $#@!ery.

On a side note, the big Tampa Bay ESPN Bitcoin Bowl is starting and goes on for a week I think?

----------


## Dianne

> Well that's what I get for supporting 330...it then decides to drop to 320.  Gotta love that whale $#@!ery.
> 
> On a side note, the big Tampa Bay ESPN Bitcoin Bowl is starting and goes on for a week I think?


I bought at $332. last night ... sigh.    I should have warned you guys a drop was sure to come.    I am the kiss of death for bitcoin when I buy.

----------


## presence

image may extend off edge of screen
Honey Badger v3.0 says last trade was 

*[2014-12-19 11:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-12-19 11:00:00]  BUY: 92783.74074449 BTC (at 312.00 USD)*


I'm working on getting a live simulation up.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I bought at $332. last night ... sigh.    I should have warned you guys a drop was sure to come.    I am the kiss of death for bitcoin when I buy.


What'd I tell ya?  I've been shorting since $335.  No worries, though.  If you're not afraid to hold, I'm fairly confident it will pay off in the not-too-distant future.  You may be able to get a cheaper price if you sold now at a loss, but that's totally up to you.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Twas the night before Christmas, no time for the charts, every trader was searching for pudding and tarts,
For hot buttered rum and some creamy eggnog, and that YouTube vid with the High Def yule log. 

But while they're all lounging or curled up in beds, with visions of dividends dancing in their heads,
The trick ninja traders are scoping the scene and figuring out how to bring home that green.

So keep these on your watch list, your finger on the button,
Forget about Hoo Hash, stuffing and mutton.
Forget about steep upward market correction,
Bitcoin's not quite done with it's bearish direction.

But when the dust settles you'll know just what to do,
... ti'l then, Merry Christmas to all, and good trading too.

----------


## amonasro

By by my analysis we are still in phase B or entering phase C.

----------


## muh_roads

> You may be able to get a cheaper price if you sold now at a loss, but that's totally up to you.


That's basically what I did.  I jumped back out the moment I made the post.  I don't care about USD loss.  I just like accumulating for more BTC.

Where do you see the next bounce?  I'm thinking 300 or just above shows resistance short-term.




> I bought at 332. last night ... sigh. I should have warned you guys a drop was sure to come. I am the kiss of death for bitcoin when I buy.


If you don't like trying your hand at swing trading, I think low 200's will be here within the next 1-3 months.  I can see why many don't want to play right now while the whales fondle their crypto sacs.




> ...or entering phase C.


I'm thinking I missed most of the smart volatility of phase B.  The "creek" might be a flash to 200 or so.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That's basically what I did.  I jumped back out the moment I made the post.  I don't care about USD loss.  I just like accumulating for more BTC.
> 
> Where do you see the next bounce?  I'm thinking 300 or just above shows resistance short-term.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't like trying your hand at swing trading, I think low 200's will be here within the next 1-3 months.  I can see why many don't want to play right now while the whales fondle their crypto sacs.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm still going by my original model, which is that, in the next few weeks, we will see a flash crash to $250 or so and that will be the start of a new uptrend that could possibly bring us to all-time highs.  It will happen relatively quickly, but if I'm right and this happens within the next few weeks, then I say anywhere below $280 is a reasonable place to go long and hold if you want a good chance at a hefty return on your investment in the next year or so.  I could be wrong, but there are several concurring pieces of evidence that suggest this would be a good place for capitulation to happen.

Note, though, I don't think it will break $240 because that would violate the long-term uptrend.  If we get to $300 and the market starts panic-selling really fast such that you feel like it's not going to stop, that's when you buy because it will almost definitely bounce somewhere above the long-term trend line at $240 and that would then start a healthy uptrend phase.

----------


## Dianne

Thanks for posting guys.   This information really helps me a lot !!

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm still going by my original model, which is that, in the next few weeks, we will see a flash crash to $250 or so and that will be the start of a new uptrend that could possibly bring us to all-time highs.  It will happen relatively quickly, but if I'm right and this happens within the next few weeks, then I say anywhere below $280 is a reasonable place to go long and hold if you want a good chance at a hefty return on your investment in the next year or so.  I could be wrong, but there are several concurring pieces of evidence that suggest this would be a good place for capitulation to happen.
> 
> Note, though, I don't think it will break $240 because that would violate the long-term uptrend.  If we get to $300 and the market starts panic-selling really fast such that you feel like it's not going to stop, that's when you buy because it will almost definitely bounce somewhere above the long-term trend line at $240 and that would then start a healthy uptrend phase.


Thanks for the insight.  Time to place those spreads.

What if we make a run that breaks thru 340?  I'm keeping an eye on this ESPN Bitcoin Bowl thing starting here very soon...

http://stpetersburgbowl.com/

https://twitter.com/BitcoinBowl

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thanks for the insight.  Time to place those spreads.
> 
> What if we make a run that breaks thru 340?  I'm keeping an eye on this ESPN Bitcoin Bowl thing starting here very soon...
> 
> http://stpetersburgbowl.com/
> 
> https://twitter.com/BitcoinBowl


A run that breaks through $340 is unexpected but significant.  I don't think that will happen yet.

----------


## muh_roads

> A run that breaks through $340 is unexpected but significant.  I don't think that will happen yet.


Something is breaking out.  The Bowl thing is all over twitter.  I don't have ESPN.  Somebody should tune in...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Something is breaking out.  The Bowl thing is all over twitter.  I don't have ESPN.  Somebody should tune in...


Nope, just a fakeout.  This is the big one.  I would be looking to buy at 280 or lower.

Not saying that will be the lowest price, but it's a good place to start picking up cheap coins.

----------


## Crashland

Just 5 days left in 2014 for tax selling. It might be worth buying on the 30th or 31st regardless of where the price is, in case the rollover into 2015 really does reduce the selling pressure. Do people think 2015 will be as good a year as 2014 was for stocks? We might see a good amount of money heading back into bitcoin if there are any signs of trouble in the new year. It doesn't take a very large shift in sentiment to significantly move the price of bitcoins, even now

----------


## muh_roads

The 4H on the MACD looks like we are getting close to scoopy time.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Just 5 days left in 2014 for tax selling. It might be worth buying on the 30th or 31st regardless of where the price is, in case the rollover into 2015 really does reduce the selling pressure. Do people think 2015 will be as good a year as 2014 was for stocks? We might see a good amount of money heading back into bitcoin if there are any signs of trouble in the new year. It doesn't take a very large shift in sentiment to significantly move the price of bitcoins, even now


That's a risky strategy.  I would rather wait for a break of key levels or a panic sell before going long.

----------


## muh_roads

> Do people think 2015 will be as good a year as 2014 was for stocks? We might see a good amount of money heading back into bitcoin if there are any signs of trouble in the new year. It doesn't take a very large shift in sentiment to significantly move the price of bitcoins, even now


Things will get interesting if/when COIN goes live on NASDAQ...  http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/ipos/c...t-909930-72927

----------


## presence

rpfpresence@gmail.com

----------


## presence

_Tri Currency Portfolio Management: 

BTC - LTC - USD_




1600 lines of code 








```
Waiting...Saved successfully.
[2014-06-01 23:00:00]  Honey Badger v4.1 Trois - Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-01 23:00:00]  litepresence 
[2014-06-01 23:00:00]  Tri Currency Portfolio Management: BTC - LTC - USD
[2014-06-01 23:00:00]  CRYPTO LONG MORE COINS SHORT
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Trades: 1 Day: 0.00 Freq: 0.00 Price: 648.07
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 10000.0 / 10000.0 0.0 ROI
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 15.4 -0.7 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Trades: 1 Day: 0.00 Freq: 0.00 Price: 11.39
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 10000.0 / 10000.0 0.0 ROI
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] Assets: 897.3 / 0.0 / 878.3 -2.1 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] ltc_usd 1
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-01 23:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-01 23:00:00]  BUY: 900.00900009 LTC (at 11.111 USD)
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] Trades: 1 Day: 0.08 Freq: 0.08 Price: 0.02
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 0.0 / 15.8 157585007.2 ROI
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 898.2 / 898.2 8982089720.9 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] ltc_btc -1
[2014-06-02 01:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-02 01:00:00]  SELL: 898.20898209 LTC (at 0.017638 BTC)
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] CAPITULATION
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] Trades: 2 Day: 20.25 Freq: 10.12 Price: 601.48
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 9510.0 -4.9 ROI
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 15.8 / 15.8 1.7 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-22 05:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-22 05:00:00]  SELL: 15.81092481 BTC (at 605.62 USD)
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] GREEN DRAGON
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] Trades: 3 Day: 20.50 Freq: 6.83 Price: 606.71
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 9556.3 / 9556.3 -4.4 ROI
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 15.8 1.3 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-22 11:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-22 11:00:00]  BUY: 15.74342909 BTC (at 607.00 USD)
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] CAPITULATION
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] Trades: 4 Day: 20.67 Freq: 5.17 Price: 606.54
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 9529.9 -4.7 ROI
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 15.7 / 15.7 1.1 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-22 15:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-22 15:00:00]  SELL: 15.71194223 BTC (at 603.46 USD)
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] Trades: 2 Day: 23.08 Freq: 11.54 Price: 9.67
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 9462.6 / 9462.6 -5.4 ROI
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] Assets: 897.3 / 0.0 / 978.8 9.1 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] ltc_usd 1
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-25 01:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-25 01:00:00]  BUY: 982.61325047 LTC (at 9.63 USD)
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] Trades: 3 Day: 23.50 Freq: 7.83 Price: 9.47
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 9288.0 -7.1 ROI
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] Assets: 897.3 / 980.6 / 980.6 9.3 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] ltc_usd -1
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-25 11:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-25 11:00:00]  SELL: 980.64802397 LTC (at 9.3349 USD)
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] DESPAIR
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] Trades: 5 Day: 24.25 Freq: 4.85 Price: 570.02
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 9135.9 / 9135.9 -8.6 ROI
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 16.0 3.1 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-06-26 05:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-06-26 05:00:00]  BUY: 15.91073273 BTC (at 574.20 USD)
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] FINAL RUN OF BULLS
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] Trades: 6 Day: 29.83 Freq: 4.97 Price: 654.70
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 10395.9 4.0 ROI
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 15.9 / 15.9 2.1 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-07-01 19:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-07-01 19:00:00]  SELL: 15.87891126 BTC (at 658.50 USD)
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] DESPAIR
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] Trades: 7 Day: 39.25 Freq: 5.61 Price: 616.71
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 10435.4 / 10435.4 4.4 ROI
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 16.9 8.8 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-07-11 05:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-07-11 05:00:00]  BUY: 16.87230277 BTC (at 618.49 USD)
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] Trades: 8 Day: 58.25 Freq: 7.28 Price: 580.34
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 9772.1 -2.3 ROI
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 16.8 / 16.8 8.3 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-07-30 05:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-07-30 05:00:00]  SELL: 16.83855816 BTC (at 580.89 USD)
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] PURGATORY
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] Trades: 4 Day: 71.75 Freq: 17.94 Price: 5.70
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 9761.8 / 9761.8 -2.4 ROI
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] Assets: 897.3 / 0.0 / 1711.8 90.8 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] ltc_usd 1
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-08-12 17:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-08-12 17:00:00]  BUY: 1709.89443873 LTC (at 5.709 USD)
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] DEEPER
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] Trades: 5 Day: 81.42 Freq: 16.28 Price: 5.24
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 8937.8 -10.6 ROI
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] Assets: 897.3 / 1706.5 / 1706.5 90.2 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] ltc_usd -1
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-08-22 09:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-08-22 09:00:00]  SELL: 1706.47464985 LTC (at 5.202 USD)
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] PURGATORY
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] Trades: 9 Day: 126.08 Freq: 14.01 Price: 307.85
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 8859.3 / 8859.3 -11.4 ROI
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 28.8 85.1 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-10-06 01:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-10-06 01:00:00]  BUY: 28.66725008 BTC (at 309.04 USD)
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] Trades: 2 Day: 129.67 Freq: 64.83 Price: 0.01
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 28.6 / 28.6 286099055.8 ROI
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 0.0 / 2705.9 27058848179.0 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] ltc_btc 1
[2014-10-09 15:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-10-09 15:00:00]  BUY: 2688.90184022 LTC (at 0.01064 BTC)
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] Trades: 3 Day: 137.58 Freq: 45.86 Price: 0.01
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 0.0 / 28.2 282132467.9 ROI
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 2683.5 / 2683.5 26835240265.4 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] ltc_btc -1
[2014-10-17 13:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-10-17 13:00:00]  SELL: 2683.52403654 LTC (at 0.010532 BTC)
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] DEEPER
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] Trades: 10 Day: 143.25 Freq: 14.32 Price: 369.34
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 10417.7 4.2 ROI
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 28.2 / 28.2 81.4 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-10-23 05:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-10-23 05:00:00]  SELL: 28.2063494 BTC (at 366.50 USD)
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] HONEY
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] Trades: 11 Day: 161.50 Freq: 14.68 Price: 369.20
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 10317.0 / 10317.0 3.2 ROI
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 27.9 79.7 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-11-10 10:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-11-10 10:00:00]  BUY: 27.7039522 BTC (at 372.40 USD)
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] Trades: 4 Day: 161.58 Freq: 40.40 Price: 0.01
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 27.6 / 27.6 276485343.0 ROI
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 0.0 / 2758.8 27588236315.2 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] ltc_btc 1
[2014-11-10 12:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-11-10 12:00:00]  BUY: 2767.62205205 LTC (at 0.00999 BTC)
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] Trades: 5 Day: 163.75 Freq: 32.75 Price: 0.01
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 0.0 / 26.5 264788180.5 ROI
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 2762.1 / 2762.1 27620867979.5 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] ltc_btc -1
[2014-11-12 16:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-11-12 16:00:00]  SELL: 2762.08680795 LTC (at 0.0095 BTC)
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] Trades: 6 Day: 166.92 Freq: 27.82 Price: 0.01
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 26.2 / 26.2 261873350.3 ROI
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 0.0 / 2562.8 25628113855.4 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] ltc_btc 1
[2014-11-15 20:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-11-15 20:00:00]  BUY: 2577.49458956 LTC (at 0.01016 BTC)
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] Trades: 7 Day: 168.00 Freq: 24.00 Price: 0.01
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] Currency: 0.0 / 0.0 / 25.5 255481325.1 ROI
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] Assets: 0.0 / 2572.3 / 2572.3 25723395903.8 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] btc_usd 0
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] ltc_btc -1
[2014-11-16 22:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-11-16 22:00:00]  SELL: 2572.33960038 LTC (at 0.00985 BTC)
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] Trades: 12 Day: 195.25 Freq: 16.27 Price: 347.52
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 8787.8 -12.1 ROI
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 25.3 / 25.3 62.6 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-12-14 04:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-12-14 04:00:00]  SELL: 25.28686997 BTC (at 346.81 USD)
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] CRYPTO LONG = MOON
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] Trades: 13 Day: 200.58 Freq: 15.43 Price: 311.17
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 8752.2 / 8752.2 -12.5 ROI
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 0.0 / 28.1 80.9 ROI 0.0 Held
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] btc_usd 1
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-12-19 12:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-12-19 12:00:00]  BUY: 27.52264119 BTC (at 318.00 USD)
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] Trades: 14 Day: 201.58 Freq: 14.40 Price: 326.65
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] Currency: 10000.0 / 0.0 / 8972.4 -10.3 ROI
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] Assets: 15.5 / 27.5 / 27.5 76.7 ROI 100.0 Held
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] ************************************************************
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] btc_usd -1
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] ltc_usd 0
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] ltc_btc 0
[2014-12-20 12:00:00] ****************************************
[2014-12-20 12:00:00]  SELL: 27.46759591 BTC (at 324.83 USD)
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] Start USD 10000.00
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] Start BTC 15.55 (est. value)
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] Start LTC 897.34 (est. value)
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End USD 8904.45
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End BTC 27.78 (est. value)
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End LTC 3229.23 (est. value)
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End USD 8904.45 :: -10.96 percent
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End BTC 27.78 :: 78.70 percent
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End LTC 3229.23 :: 259.86 percent
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] trades 25
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] days 208.00
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] >> [10000.00 USD]
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] >> [8904.45458149 USD]
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] >> Profit: -1095.54541851 USD
```




This is 6/1/2014 to present; the price of BTC has fallen from about $650 to $320 over the period in a pretty steady decline; about* 50% loss.*
*

Shown Trading 2h candles...

Honey Badger v4.1 Trois
*
*[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End USD 8904.45 :: -10.96 percent 
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End BTC 27.78 :: 78.70 percent 
[2014-12-27 16:00:00] End LTC 3229.23 :: 259.86 percent





Its running on the exact same trading code that gave me the Dec 2011 to present $1000 becomes $44m for BTCUSD

Except here shown in 2h resolution instead of 12h and trading LTC as well. 



rpfpresence@gmail.com
*

----------


## presence

I have that gut feeling for a major LTCUSD and LTCBTC dagger down to the 0.00390, $1.25 level, on or about the 8th day of the new year.  

0.00400 and $1.30 would be good buy orders to sleep in.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Thanks for the analysis!  I agree, except that I think that trend line is closer to $250 than $200, but I'm looking at Bitstamp.  I don't trust that $100 spike on BTC-e.

Either way, I think mid-$250s is a relatively safe place to buy.  I would venture to say it's the best buying opportunity we've had since the last bubble.

----------


## muh_roads

LTC will have gone from $48 to 8 cents...I can't be reading that right?

Even in 2011 BTC never did that bad.

Anywho, I'm still hopeful for one more bounce with resistance at 300 before both of your 200'ish predictions are tested.

----------


## presence

> LTC will have gone from $48 to 8 cents...I can't be reading that right?
> 
> Even in 2011 BTC never did that bad.
> 
> Anywho, I'm still hopeful for one more bounce with resistance at 300 before both of your 200'ish predictions are tested.



oops you caught me in a typo

$0.80

80 cents is my valuation.


PaulWV please delete your copy of the image.  It has been updated

----------


## presence

I'm pretty sure I have a new business model conceived for bot sales.   James at tradewave has been really slow in developing a profitable market place.   I really don't want to sell open source code anymore... multiple times I've become aware of people offering my goods at a discount; undercutting me.

So the future is PAMM at BTC-e

https://pamm.btc-e.com/en/Top/Masters

click "english" in upper right




> It is essentially a form of wealth management for FOREX.  If you were to
>  sign up for a Slave account, you can select a Master account to follow.
>    That means that your account will automatically replicate the trading 
> strategy of the Master account in real time.  Your account will execute 
> the same trades as the Master account, but scaled for the total capital 
> in your account.  When the Master profits, the Slave profits.  Slaves 
> profiting is in the best interest of the Master.
> 
>  You can view the performance and historical trades of Master accounts  to decide which to, "follow" and you can unpair your account with a  Master at any time.  
> ...




That's it in a nutshell.

I build bot at tradewave.

I create PAMM Master account via BTCe.


Honey Badger runs my funds directly.



Your Slave account trades proportionally at the same time as my Master account.  

Royalties are automatically deducted once monthly, only if minimum agreed monthly profit is met.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Ready my description at the link:
https://www.tradingview.com/v/0zfBnEIy/

----------


## muh_roads

Exciting and scary times incoming.

As we approach scoopy time, make sure you guys are diversified on a few different exchanges.  Too many people were only on gox last time.  One guy gave me $#@! as if it was my responsibility to warn him about keeping all his eggs in one place.

Sidechains are coming.  Until then, risk still exists.  We only have to put up with centralized exchanges for a little bit longer.

----------


## Dianne

I'm half at btc-e and half at cryptsy, not that I'm a big investor lol.     Thanks for all the tips guys.    I went into fiat at btc-e moments after reading some of the latest posts here.   At cryptsy I'm all in with XPY (paycoin) to see if all the hype pays off.   I can't cash out at cryptsy since I am not verified and refuse to be, so I'm stuck for the moment.

----------


## presence

> I'm pretty sure I have a new business model conceived for bot sales.   James at tradewave has been really slow in developing a profitable market place.   I really don't want to sell open source code anymore... multiple times I've become aware of people offering my goods at a discount; undercutting me.
> 
> So the future is PAMM at BTC-e
> 
> https://pamm.btc-e.com/en/Top/Masters
> 
> click "english" in upper right
> 
> 
> ...



yeah soo... after looking further into it... its not going to happen.   Can't run my tradewave scripts on PAMM.  Bummer.  Seems I'll have to continue to wait on a tradewave marketplace... 

unless I find the time to learn MQL4

----------


## presence

```
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] start date....: 2011-12-18 04:00:00
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] start assets..: 313.97 BTC
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] end assets....: 217264.06 BTC
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] buy-n-hold....: 98023.23
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] b-n-h gain....: x98.02
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] crypto gain...: x691.99
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] cash gain.....: x67830.71
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] days..........: 1108.0
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] trades........: 89
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] days/trades...: 12.45
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] >> [1000.00 USD]
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] >> [0.00000278 USD, 217264.06188752 BTC]
[2014-12-29 23:00:00] >> Profit: 67809069.09165476 USD
```

Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ```
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] start date....: 2011-12-18 04:00:00
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] start assets..: 313.97 BTC
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] end assets....: 217264.06 BTC
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] buy-n-hold....: 98023.23
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] b-n-h gain....: x98.02
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] crypto gain...: x691.99
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] cash gain.....: x67830.71
> [2014-12-29 23:00:00] days..........: 1108.0
> ...


Is that just a test or are you actually the richest member of RPF?

----------


## presence

> Is that just a test or are you actually the richest member of RPF?


LOL I wish. 

That's a backtest; I'm looking forward to finding some way to make it closed source trading strategy that other people can use.  

Sharing closed source code is currently not possible with tradewave.


....well nothing is impossible 


I'm contemplating:

tradewave "Honey Badger" POST Request to Dropbox API of (-1,0,1); sell, hold, buy.  Then GET Request with MQL4 to initialize trades on a BTCe Master PAMM account... Feeding PAMM Slaves trade signals

----------


## PaulConventionWV

As a heads up, this may be the time to buy BTC.  We've made several slightly new lows in the last few days, but still no panic sell.  The market is refusing to break support.  I could be wrong, but I'm on high alert and I've closed all my shorts.  Keep a lookout.  If it breaks above $320 again, I would say go ahead and buy.

As a reminder, though, this is not investment advice.  I'm just telling you my opinion.

----------


## muh_roads

I'm keeping an eye on the 15m MACD and debating on whether to get back in or not.  I need to wait until tomorrow tho and I'm sure I'm not alone.  (tax selling)

----------


## muh_roads

Whales...lol

Sentiment is $#@! right now, so whales decide to do a new years pump to freak everyone out.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Whales...lol
> 
> Sentiment is $#@! right now, so whales decide to do a new years pump to freak everyone out.


What do you mean?

----------


## muh_roads

> What do you mean?


Regarding sentiment?  I just mean with all those headlines lately (worst performer of 2014, blah blah).  Everyone was ready for 200's and whales do a surprise reversal, heh.

----------


## muh_roads

> Regarding sentiment?  I just mean with all those headlines lately (worst performer of 2014, blah blah).  Everyone was ready for 200's and whales do a surprise reversal, heh.


I'm still gonna say 280-300 will see a reversal to 340-350 before the low 200's is found.  I'm too lazy to draw but I think I can see it in the fractal as a possibility.

That would be my plan if I were laying down a limit order spread range.  Or I'm an idiot.  Either way we're going to find out soon.

----------


## presence

> I'm still gonna say 280-300 will see a reversal to 340-350 before the low 200's is found.


No way boss.  Its too far gone now.  

12h 30 60 90 150 MA's are all that matter now; and they're heavy on top.

Its about to get ugly like August 12th 2014. 

TO DA FLO 

sold $346
buying $220

----------


## muh_roads

> No way boss.  Its too far gone now.  
> 
> 12h 30 60 90 150 MA's are all that matter now; and they're heavy on top.
> 
> Its about to get ugly like August 12th 2014. 
> 
> TO DA FLO 
> 
> sold $346
> buying $220


Ah so you've been just hanging out for a while.  For an absolute bottom, I don't disagree.  But wherever this red down is on the 4h looks like an elliot wave 4...with a wave 5 still yet to be reached.

I'm just watching and placing invisible bets, heh.

----------


## presence

*Fake Transaction Chains Double 2014 Bitcoin Volume*https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/fake-transaction-chains-double-2014-bitcoin-volume/

----------


## squarepusher

I was thinking of investing into Paycoin, the price seems pretty low right now, can anyone offer advice on that?

----------


## muh_roads

> I was thinking of investing into Paycoin, the price seems pretty low right now, can anyone offer advice on that?


People on Twitter are saying it is a scam.  I believe 80% of it was premined by the devs (GAW Miners) for themselves.  If you buy in I wouldn't expect much of a rise from its current beat-down.  Lots of bagholders want out of it and are really pissed off.

Welcome to alts.

----------


## muh_roads

> *Fake Transaction Chains Double 2014 Bitcoin Volume*
> 
> https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/fake...itcoin-volume/


You troll.  

Don't worry, your $220 is coming soon enough.

----------


## presence

*Police Suspect Mt. Gox Inside Job –* http://www.cryptoreading.com/flash-news/

----------


## champion_thedrinker

What are you guys thinking as far as the value of Bitcoin down the road?  We've all seen the crazy predictions, $5,000, $10,000, what did Max Keiser say $100,000?
I bought roughly 8/10ths of one at 323 for the sole purpose of funding my sportsbook account.  I transferred it to the book today, so I'm back in fiat now at a loss of about $30.  Still cheaper than Western Union, and it was fun to track the daily movements.

Here's to an extended dip while I scrounge up funds to buy more.  Still kicking myself for not getting in when I first heard about it on Free Talk Live and other shows.

Aside from the crazy predictions, you have to think with more adoption from retailers, sidechains and other tech, the price will end up being far north of what is today, and what it will be in the near future, no?

----------


## muh_roads

> What are you guys thinking as far as the value of Bitcoin down the road?  We've all seen the crazy predictions, $5,000, $10,000, what did Max Keiser say $100,000?
> I bought roughly 8/10ths of one at 323 for the sole purpose of funding my sportsbook account.  I transferred it to the book today, so I'm back in fiat now at a loss of about $30.  Still cheaper than Western Union, and it was fun to track the daily movements.
> 
> Here's to an extended dip while I scrounge up funds to buy more.  Still kicking myself for not getting in when I first heard about it on Free Talk Live and other shows.
> 
> Aside from the crazy predictions, you have to think with more adoption from retailers, sidechains and other tech, the price will end up being far north of what is today, and what it will be in the near future, no?


The Silk Road auction winner, Tim Draper, says $10k in 3 years.  (That would be 2.5 years away now)  I don't worry about it because I like the volatility.  Bitcoin won't die.  There are two types of whales.

 - Whale #1 adopted Bitcoin early but doesn't really understand it and they aren't following industry news.  They are exiting and will create the next generation of micro-whales by spreading coins to more hands.

 - Whale #2 adopted early and is consolidating for more coins because collecting is fun.  They will grab from other "Whale #1's".

The Bitcoin ecosystem is like plucking a string on one end.  It is very volatile but smooths out over time.  As bad as 2014 was, it still wasn't near the dewm that 2011 experienced in terms of % loss.

I'm really surprised more people aren't playing because the swings are enormous. People can make a lot of money if they follow TA.  I can understand people wanting to sell because low 200's is a possibility.  But if people are selling with the intent of never getting back in to scoop for more coin, I think they will be disappointed with themselves in the near future.  It will be akin to people being sad that they sold so much in 2012 after that disastrous 2011.  People like Draper will scoop a lot in the coming weeks, IMO.

People like to look at Bitcoin in the past 12 months and the media loves to report the negative.  But if you go back 14 months Bitcoin is still up 200%.  Best investment choice I've ever made.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What are you guys thinking as far as the value of Bitcoin down the road?  We've all seen the crazy predictions, $5,000, $10,000, what did Max Keiser say $100,000?
> I bought roughly 8/10ths of one at 323 for the sole purpose of funding my sportsbook account.  I transferred it to the book today, so I'm back in fiat now at a loss of about $30.  Still cheaper than Western Union, and it was fun to track the daily movements.
> 
> Here's to an extended dip while I scrounge up funds to buy more.  Still kicking myself for not getting in when I first heard about it on Free Talk Live and other shows.
> 
> Aside from the crazy predictions, you have to think with more adoption from retailers, sidechains and other tech, the price will end up being far north of what is today, and what it will be in the near future, no?


I think it's definitely possible that we will see the price rise throughout the rest of 2015 after a quick panic sell here.  When you're actually in it, sometimes things get tense and you start to wonder if you made the right decision.  It's kind of hard to explain, but usually your first guess ends up being right.  My first guess was that we would tank to $240-$250 before another rise, but I started to think maybe the rise would happen sooner.  Long story short, it looks like I was right the first time.  Get those buy buttons ready!

----------


## muh_roads

Broke thru 280...my bet was wrong.

So now we have bets on 220, 240, 250

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Broke thru 280...my bet was wrong.
> 
> So now we have bets on 220, 240, 250


I'm going to agree with pres on this one and say watch $220s.  Big volume, fast sell means BUY.  We have not had that yet, so I am thinking about looking for a short pretty soon.  We may see the crash sometime in the next week, but it's coming.  After that, I highly expect it to break upward.



This chart goes off the edge of the screen, so see the whole thing and read the description here:
https://www.tradingview.com/v/TmdYGbRL/

----------


## Dianne

Do you guys have a premonition on LTC's bottom?    If it dumps to $1.00, will you guys buy?   I'm just wondering if this is a second chance to get in LTC for the long haul.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Do you guys have a premonition on LTC's bottom?    If it dumps to $1.00, will you guys buy?   I'm just wondering if this is a second chance to get in LTC for the long haul.


I think pres mentioned $0.80.

----------


## Dianne

> I think pres mentioned $0.80.


Wow, if it does dip that low it will be hard not to buy.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Time to buy bitcoin.

----------


## amonasro

I had wondered if we'd crash through $300 in a final bear blaze of glory, but the sideways low volume movement was too tempting I suppose. Now, watch the dip just below the support point ($275) act as a spring.

edit: here's an example

----------


## Indy Vidual

Better to buy now than when it is already up 50% or more.

----------


## muh_roads

> Time to buy bitcoin.


I bought at $275, derp.  Might have to sell for a loss here.  Going to wait for the macd to turn around on the 15m to see where we are...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I bought at $275, derp.  Might have to sell for a loss here.  Going to wait for the macd to turn around on the 15m to see where we are...


Yeah, Bitstamp news messed everything up.  We may see lower prices yet.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, Bitstamp news messed everything up.  We may see lower prices yet.


I was thinking these latest bounces just extended the downward timeline a bit.  Yeah 200-220 will still be hit...but it may have been extended out further to Feb-March now.

I also think people are being obnoxious regarding the Bitstamp news.  The loss is only 2% of what happened to Gox.  Also, Bitstamp is now owned by a US company called Fortress.  People will definitely go to jail if they tried to do any "goxing".

Once Bitstamp comes back online, I think we could see a mini-run to 285-290 before reversing again.  It seems to be starting now...

What are your thoughts?

----------


## presence

I started trading Honey Badger v5.0 LIVE today on 1h candles!  Wish me luck 



```
    Honey Badger v5.0

    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Start Date....: 2011-12-18 04:00:00
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Start Assets..: 313.97 BTC
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] End Assets....: 283831.35 BTC
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Buy-n-Hold....: 95846.94
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] B-n-H Gain....: x95.85
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Crypto Gain...: x904.00
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Cash Gain.....: x86645.91
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Days..........: 1112.0
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Trades........: 80
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Price.........: 305.272
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Days/Trades...: 13.90
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Trade Types...: 14
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] Trade Type Counter
        ({1.1: 17, 2: 13, 1: 8, 2.1: 8, 2.2: 7, 3: 6, 4: 4,
        1.5: 3, 3.2: 3, 3.1: 3, 5: 3, 1.3: 2, 5.1: 2, 4.1: 1})
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] >> [1000.00 USD]
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] >> [86645906.24394985 USD]
    [2015-01-03 11:00:00] >> Profit: 86644906.24394985 USD
```


two other big announcements:

Tradewave redesigned their webpage, check it out:

tradewave.net

...and I released an OPEN SOURCE CODE version of *

Honey Badger v0.9*



```
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] Start Date: 2011-12-18 04:00:00
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] Day: 1114 Trades: 88 Frequency 12.0
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] USD 1000.0 / 4432834.8 / 443183.5 ROI
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] BTC 314.0 / 16328.9 / 5100.7 ROI
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] ***************************************
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] Buy and Hold Gain: 85.2X
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] Honey Badger Gain: 4432.8X
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] >> [1000.00 USD]
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] >> [4432834.76540813 USD]
[2015-01-04 23:00:00] >> Profit: 4431834.76540813 USD
```

https://tradewave.net/strategy/pEvUZKWDzd


which will soon be featured on the front page of tradewave

----------


## muh_roads

Can that run as trade assistant, pres?

----------


## muh_roads

I think we should make a thread in the General Board and/or the Economics Board inviting more people here. I'd need to clear it with Bryan first.

We also need FAQ stickies too. Would be nice to get more RPF'ers in here scooping the bottom. I envy the activity of the other boards like General & Econ. I just don't envy their constant speak of "the end is nigh". It's depressing and too easy to get wrapped up in it.

Instead of so much "the end is nigh" in General & Econ, people need something to be positive about.

----------


## presence

> Can that run as trade assistant, pres?


sure... you could attach it to an account with no funds.

(the version I gave you is 3X more profitable though  )

----------


## amonasro

> I think we should make a thread in the General Board and/or the Economics Board inviting more people here. I'd need to clear it with Bryan first.
> 
> We also need FAQ stickies too. Would be nice to get more RPF'ers in here scooping the bottom. I envy the activity of the other boards like General & Econ. I just don't envy their constant speak of "the end is nigh". It's depressing and too easy to get wrapped up in it.
> 
> Instead of so much "the end is nigh" in General & Econ, people need something to be positive about.


I agree, and I would post more trading/TA in general but this place is my safe haven. I just hate what happened to bitcointalk and reddit. It's like troll/shill city. They are everywhere. 

On the other hand, if we could get more RPF members in here, I think many of them would like crypto if they understood it properly. I'd be willing to write a FAQ.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I was thinking these latest bounces just extended the downward timeline a bit.  Yeah 200-220 will still be hit...but it may have been extended out further to Feb-March now.
> 
> I also think people are being obnoxious regarding the Bitstamp news.  The loss is only 2% of what happened to Gox.  Also, Bitstamp is now owned by a US company called Fortress.  People will definitely go to jail if they tried to do any "goxing".
> 
> Once Bitstamp comes back online, I think we could see a mini-run to 285-290 before reversing again.  It seems to be starting now...
> 
> What are your thoughts?


I think you hit the nail on the head, actually.  I was kind of hoping this would happen relatively quickly so I could spot a reversal then just hold long and forget about it, but it looks like it's going to drag out like you said.  We may see a rise up to $290 or $300, but my guess is that it won't last.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I agree, and I would post more trading/TA in general but this place is my safe haven. I just hate what happened to bitcointalk and reddit. It's like troll/shill city. They are everywhere. 
> 
> On the other hand, if we could get more RPF members in here, I think many of them would like crypto if they understood it properly. I'd be willing to write a FAQ.


Didn't we already have one of those on GP?

----------


## muh_roads

> I agree, and I would post more trading/TA in general but this place is my safe haven. I just hate what happened to bitcointalk and reddit. It's like troll/shill city. They are everywhere. 
> 
> On the other hand, if we could get more RPF members in here, I think many of them would like crypto if they understood it properly. I'd be willing to write a FAQ.


That would be awesome if u could put an FAQ together.




> Didn't we already have one of those on GP?


I'd prefer to try again.  This time I'll give away $5 in Bitcoin to anyone that is trying it for the first time...preferably RPF'ers that have been on the board for a while.  Either directly or using ChangeTip.

----------


## muh_roads

Apparently Bitstamp is moving all their Slovenia & UK resources to San Francisco as a new home base of operations.

----------


## squarepusher

> Apparently Bitstamp is moving all their Slovenia & UK resources to San Francisco as a new home base of operations.


I dont think so, where did you come up with this?  Bitstamp may not even be solvent they still haven't signed any proof of reserve.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yep your first 200-220 was correct.  Now I'm sitting here wondering if we're going to hit it one more time because it barely touched.  I sold my limit scoops but not sure if I should get back in...


Yeah, it doesn't look good right now.  Any time the market flatlines like that in the middle of a downtrend with unexceptional volume, I'm looking for it to continue down at some point.  We may go into the $100s, which defies explanation right now.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So is it worth clicking "view post" for that niggly tickly $#@!ty little tagnut named squarepusher?  I'm going to assume no.


No, it's not.

----------


## presence

> 



Perhaps my most prophetic post of all time?

*The bounce to 411 should definately be noted.*

----------


## presence

> Yeah, it doesn't look good right now.  Any time the market flatlines like that in the middle of a downtrend with unexceptional volume, I'm looking for it to continue down at some point.  We may go into the $100s, which defies explanation right now.




Steady all is good.

I'm 50% in coin.   From what I can tell... Honey Badger should start buying within the next 2 hours depending on offset. 

Sold 322 bought 230.

We're deep under 3d MA30.   235 is a very safe position.   I suspect ability to offload in 10 days at 280... unless it turns bull long.

----------


## presence

I know some of you view interpolation as "junk science" but here's a blast from the past tidbit I consider noteworthy:




this shows the collapse of mt gox from 900 down to 91.5 interpolated over the much slower collapse of the overall market.

Both gox and the broader market bounced hard at 220.

Gox rallied to 441 before returning to support at 248.   In the gox disaster this played out in a few days.. 

You might consider 30 days = 1 gox day.

So... if interpolation serves as a guide...

we buy here at 220-230... we dump @ 400

We rebuy 255... and then ride to the tip of consolidation.

I suspect we turn bull from there.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Steady all is good.
> 
> I'm 50% in coin.   From what I can tell... Honey Badger should start buying within the next 2 hours depending on offset. 
> 
> Sold 322 bought 230.
> 
> We're deep under 3d MA30.   235 is a very safe position.   I suspect ability to offload in 10 days at 280... unless it turns bull long.


I hear ya, but seriously, look at this:


That is a legit bear flag right there.  It probably will reverse soon, as you say, but I have a really hard time believing this is it.

EDIT: ....Aaaand it's gone.  

I decided to short this and seconds later I was proven right.

----------


## presence

HONEY BADGER 1000X Just bought; last sell 322


BUY 221.001

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This may not be the exact bottom, but I decided to go long here.  I think this is a great time to buy.

----------


## muh_roads

> This may not be the exact bottom, but I decided to go long here.  I think this is a great time to buy.


Cool.

I did as well.  Placed descending orders to 200 starting at 230.  Gettin' 'em filled.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Just got a report back from a custy... one of my Honey Badgers on  another offset got 


[2015-01-13 23:17:00]  BUY: **.****  BTC (at 216.341  USD)

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

In terms of real market growth, I think we should be somewhere around 350.  But stability is not the name of the game here.

Given all the numbers mentioned, my take is this could slow rally to 280, but then do one more freak out down to 160-180 somewhere.  Then we head to 500.  If it can clear that, under 800 would be the next stop I think.  If it doesn't clear 500, back down to scoop again around 250.

Thoughts?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


I still don't think this is the bottom.  We need a serious rebound, but so far it's just been flatlining.  Don't get me wrong, you probably won't regret it if you buy now, but it's got to capitulate first.

----------


## newbitech

bounce off 160ish.  you really need that blow off.  The selling is measured and relentless.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> bounce off 160ish.  you really need that blow off.  The selling is measured and relentless.


I agree.  I'm waiting for the bounce.

----------


## newbitech

> I agree.  I'm waiting for the bounce.


think of it this way,  http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blowofftop.asp

also, 160ish is the actual weekly closing for the week of march 31 2013, and april 7 2013. Take a look at your historical, extremely powerful support at that level.

----------


## presence

I have feedback from 3 LIVE Honey Badgers on different offsets and candle sizes:


BUY 221 10m
BUY 216 2h
BUY 213 1h

----------


## muh_roads

160-180 is what I mentioned in my previous post, but it didn't feel right to hit it this fast.  Still feel we should see a bounce first.

We'll find out soon.

----------


## squarepusher

> 160-180 is what I mentioned in my previous post, but it didn't feel right to hit it this fast.  Still feel we should see a bounce first.
> 
> We'll find out soon.


hows that bag doing muh_roads?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Shorted from 218 and covered at 185.  Bought at 180, all in my sleep.  That went lower than I expected, but I think we may finally be getting a bounce.

----------


## presence

well all (4) of my honey badgers are are in


221 (10m)
 216 (1h)
213 (2h)
185 (1h) different offset
_____________________

208.75 average buy in

and they're all logging:

[2015-01-14 10:16:00] 0 WASH BLOODY HANDS 211.72 (5.3)
[2015-01-14 10:16:00] 3.1 PURGATORY - HOLD 211.72 (5.3)
[2015-01-14 10:16:00] PANIC HOLD 6 - 211.72 (5.3)

Which means they all purchased under subclass (5.3) which is "mop blood"  
They wanted to dump short today at around noon EST (0 WASH BLOODY HANDS)... 
But the 12h close fell through the floor threshold (3.1 PURGATORY - HOLD).

They're all in 6 day minimum hold long mode.   
Very few parallel decisions can over ride this panic hold (dragon class unlimited)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> hows that bag doing muh_roads?


What's your purpose here?  Do you ever wonder what your life is about when you find yourself trolling one specific poster about his bitcoin holdings?

Oh, and I believe you're on his ignore list.

----------


## presence

> hows that bag doing muh_roads?




This isn't a trollbox and there are rules at rpf against personal attack.  Please do not troll people in this thread.  



This thread is for technical analysis and bitcoin news.

----------


## muh_roads

> hows that bag doing muh_roads?


Been swing trading since 500 with a bag originally bought for 10-20.  I'm doing fine.  

You have "tall poppy syndrome".

----------


## Dianne

> well all (4) of my honey badgers are are in
> 
> 
> 221 (10m)
>  216 (1h)
> 213 (2h)
> 185 (1h) different offset
> _____________________
> 
> ...


For unsavvy traders like myself, are you saying "buy now and hold a minimum of 6 days"?    I don't even know what a honey badger is lol.

----------


## presence

> For unsavvy traders like myself, are you saying "buy now and hold a minimum of 6 days"?


yes




> I don't even know what a honey badger is lol.


Honey Badger is my latest botscript its written in python and trades via the cloud server at tradewave.net

The freeware version is on the front page of tradewave.net.  It backtests @ 50X btc return since dec 2011.

I have commercial closed source version that I personally run live.  The shipped bot currently trades that period at over 1100X btc return and I have an "unstable" dev in the works as high as 1343X



1.5 btc for 1 year 50k usd equity limit lease.

most recent live trades

sell 349 (first live)
buy 312
sell 322
--------- sales began ---------
buy 209 (average of 4 users)



Google Keyword 
*
ANN Honey Badger 1000X*

----------


## muh_roads

> I don't even know what a honey badger is lol.


Referring to something as a 'Honey Badger' refers to an entity that you are applying it to as something that "doesn't give a $#@!".  In Bitcoin's case, it is referring to the price & its own existence.  Meaning it can go any which way it pleases and "doesn't give a $#@!"...government intervention be damned.  The protocol will always exist.

The meme started with this voiced-over nature video...




Bitcoiners eventually picked up the term and have been putting it on billboards...

----------


## presence

Honey Badger freeware just bought on 1h candles

[2015-01-14 03:00:00] PURGATORY
[2015-01-14 03:00:00]  BUY: 4.87245676 BTC (at 191.604 USD)


Honey Badger v0.9 50X BTC
https://tradewave.net/strategy/pEvUZKWDzd

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm still waiting for a bottom.  I'll be going long in the $130s.  This I believe will be a long-term bottom.  I've already had a couple of very successful trades and this one is just icing on the cake.  Killin' it.

----------


## Dianne

> yes
> 
> 
> 
> Honey Badger is my latest botscript its written in python and trades via the cloud server at tradewave.net
> 
> The freeware version is on the front page of tradewave.net.  It backtests @ 50X btc return since dec 2011.
> 
> I have commercial closed source version that I personally run live.  The shipped bot currently trades that period at over 1100X btc return and I have an "unstable" dev in the works as high as 1343X
> ...


Oh wow, that's really cool ...  thanks !!

----------


## Dianne

> I'm still waiting for a bottom.  I'll be going long in the $130s.  This I believe will be a long-term bottom.  I've already had a couple of very successful trades and this one is just icing on the cake.  Killin' it.


I bought at $211. last night while sleeping.    I almost pooped my pants when I woke up to $180.    I wish it would dip to the $130s quickly so I can pull the trigger on more before I go to bed tonight.     It seems all the good stuff happens when the U.S. is asleep.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I bought at $211. last night while sleeping.    I almost pooped my pants when I woke up to $180.    I wish it would dip to the $130s quickly so I can pull the trigger on more before I go to bed tonight.     It seems all the good stuff happens when the U.S. is asleep.


Lol, yeah.

I did all my trading in my sleep last night and it ended up being quite profitable.  I would highly recommend buying in the $130s.

----------


## Dianne

> Lol, yeah.
> 
> I did all my trading in my sleep last night and it ended up being quite profitable.  I would highly recommend buying in the $130s.


I got ya, I'm looking for 130's.     I hate having to buy through Coinbase though..   They don't have an option that I know of to pre-set a price you're willing to pay (that I know of),  and I refuse to get verified with Crapsy or btc-e.

----------


## muh_roads

> I got ya, I'm looking for 130's.     I hate having to buy through Coinbase though..   They don't have an option that I know of to pre-set a price you're willing to pay (that I know of),  and I refuse to get verified with Crapsy or btc-e.


Some states do.  They are working on getting "USD Wallets" in every state.  Do you live in one of these green states?

http://newsbtc.com/2015/01/14/coinba...-7-new-states/

I don't, sadly.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> Some states do.  They are working on getting "USD Wallets" in every state.  Do you live in one of these green states?
> 
> http://newsbtc.com/2015/01/14/coinba...-7-new-states/
> 
> I don't, sadly.


Nope ((   I'm in North Carolina, unfortunately.    Can't wait to blow this pop stand.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Screw it, I'm going long.  Downtrend is broken.  Way too much upside potential here.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I got ya, I'm looking for 130's.     I hate having to buy through Coinbase though..   They don't have an option that I know of to pre-set a price you're willing to pay (that I know of),  and I refuse to get verified with Crapsy or btc-e.


You don't have to get verified with an exchange.  I just trade on the exchange and when I want to withdraw my earnings I just send some BTC to Coinbase and cash it out that way.  I use Bitfinex for trading and haven't had any problems.  If you just use Coinbase that means every trade you make goes through your bank account, which you really don't need to do.

By the way, I went ahead and went long.  I'm not waiting for 130s anymore.

----------


## presence

> Screw it, I'm going long.  Downtrend is broken.  Way too much upside potential here.


Today is the day of departure.  You pick your seat and get on the bus.  Some want front seat, some take back... but don't wait till bus is full you you miss the ride.

I've never been big in short play.   Consistantly trade a chart long; buy the 3d red daggers, sell the green... statitistics will put you in a good place in the end.  

Anything sub 240 is a great trade; and will reap profits this time next week.

----------


## muh_roads

> You don't have to get verified with an exchange.  I just trade on the exchange and when I want to withdraw my earnings I just send some BTC to Coinbase and cash it out that way.  I use Bitfinex for trading and haven't had any problems.  If you just use Coinbase that means every trade you make goes through your bank account, which you really don't need to do.
> 
> By the way, I went ahead and went long.  I'm not waiting for 130s anymore.


I think u may still get your 130...but I think some elliot waves need to happen first.  33% drop was already a lot...

Just checked the charts.  Yeah...something is happening here...

----------


## muh_roads

> Nope ((   I'm in North Carolina, unfortunately.    Can't wait to blow this pop stand.


That's too bad.  You plan on moving to a state that does?

Once the USD Wallet comes online, then you want to link your account to a 3rd party compatible coinbase app called StopCoin.  This combination will transform coinbase into a regular trading account without it dumping to your bank account when you sell.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Turned out to be a good decision.  There's still time to go long if you haven't already.

----------


## muh_roads

> Turned out to be a good decision.  There's still time to go long if you haven't already.


OT, are you reporting in from China?  Thought I read somewhere you were heading out that way.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> OT, are you reporting in from China?  Thought I read somewhere you were heading out that way.


I have a job there, but I'm still working on getting my visa.  Should be leaving some time in March.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

China is doing their thang now and it doesn't look like they're cashing out like yesterday's morning. Perhaps, it is time to flex a long and hold. Either way, buying now shouldn't yield too much on the negative side and we all know what the upside could look like. We should be dropping 20-30$ soon if we're gonna get a repeat of yesterday or more. I already bought some and thought I'd save a solid fiat stack to see if we go defcon but am not hurting on either as of this moment. I'm cautiously optimistic for northern territory going forward.

----------


## Suzu

Peter Schiff is still very bearish on BTC. Skip ahead to 22:20 to hear what he says about it.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> Peter Schiff is still very bearish on BTC. Skip ahead to 22:20 to hear what he says about it.


Peter can predict that bubbles can burst...what a scholar...lol

Where was he to warn me about gold & silver before those burst?  Oh yeah, I forgot...he makes his living off of being a middleman for metals. Bitcoin is the enemy of middlemen.  He acts surprised when metal bubbles burst while he probably secretly sells...lol

He knows how to trade.  He didn't make his money by being an idiot trader.  He is free to do what he wants.  But people need to stop viewing Schiff as some sort of saint that cares about them before himself.

----------


## muh_roads

> 


Earlier I mentioned how sometime between March and May we could see $500's again.  Your consolidation timetable would align with that well.

On the 12H chart when zoomed in, I'd say that is the biggest green candle we've seen in 2 months...minus the doji candlewicks of others.

----------


## muh_roads

> I have a job there, but I'm still working on getting my visa.  Should be leaving some time in March.


That's cool.  English teacher?

Would love to travel and disappear somewhere for a while.

----------


## muh_roads

> China is doing their thang now and it doesn't look like they're cashing out like yesterday's morning. Perhaps, it is time to flex a long and hold. Either way, buying now shouldn't yield too much on the negative side and we all know what the upside could look like. We should be dropping 20-30$ soon if we're gonna get a repeat of yesterday or more. I already bought some and thought I'd save a solid fiat stack to see if we go defcon but am not hurting on either as of this moment. I'm cautiously optimistic for northern territory going forward.


If this sets up properly it should provide opportunities to play the waffle between 200-300 for a while.  I think we may have survived despair/fear/depression and moving into consolidation.  As always, I guess we'll soon find out.

----------


## Dianne

> You don't have to get verified with an exchange.  I just trade on the exchange and when I want to withdraw my earnings I just send some BTC to Coinbase and cash it out that way.  I use Bitfinex for trading and haven't had any problems.  If you just use Coinbase that means every trade you make goes through your bank account, which you really don't need to do.
> 
> By the way, I went ahead and went long.  I'm not waiting for 130s anymore.


I'm going to explore Bitfinex today.    Do you have a referrer's code?

----------


## Dianne

> If this sets up properly it should provide opportunities to play the waffle between 200-300 for a while.  I think we may have survived despair/fear/depression and moving into consolidation.  As always, I guess we'll soon find out.


Sounds good  !!     Maybe it will waffle until next pay day lol.

----------


## Dianne

Do we still think LTC going to tank to .80 ish or did we bottom out in your opinions?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm going to explore Bitfinex today.    Do you have a referrer's code?


Yes, I do.  

4DMKZXPO8F

----------


## muh_roads

> Yes, I do.  
> 
> 4DMKZXPO8F


I'll add you too.  If I can't I'll make a new account.

----------


## muh_roads

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/B7ZecI5CAAEdnVe.mp4

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That's cool.  English teacher?
> 
> Would love to travel and disappear somewhere for a while.


Well, this is a great way to do it.  Probably one of the easiest ways to do it unless you're just super adventurous and decide to wing it.  There's a guy on Youtube who basically just hopped on a plane to China after visiting the country once and he was actually homeless for a while but was able to get back on his feet and now lives a great life there.  That's something you might do if you're particularly adventurous/motivated/desperate.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Check front page of tradewave!

Freeware Open Source Version of Honey Badger bought_ 191_


[2014-12-09 23:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-12-09 23:00:00]  SELL: 2.62213312 BTC (at 345.001 USD)

[2014-12-19 11:00:00] HONEY
[2014-12-19 11:00:00]  BUY: 2.89368356 BTC (at 312.00 USD)

[2014-12-20 11:00:00] RED DRAGON
[2014-12-20 11:00:00]  SELL: 2.88789619 BTC (at 323.922 USD)

[2015-01-14 03:00:00] PURGATORY
[2015-01-14 03:00:00]  BUY: 4.87245676 BTC (at 191.604 USD)

----------


## presence



----------


## FSP-Rebel

> snip


So, let the good times roll?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Uh-oh.  The bear market may not be over yet.  More to come, but we may get that $130s after all.  Either way, I think we will make it back to $270.

----------


## presence

> So, let the good times roll?


Honey Badger is holding average buy of 209 live.


I'm expecting:

Sell 275
Buy 225
Sell 300

Then Consolidate to 260... from there (March 1st ?) we will decide if the good times shall roll.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I think I gave people the wrong Bitfinex referral code before.  If anyone's interested, it's 4DMKzxPO8F.

My take right now is basically that, if it goes above $220, then I'm bullish.  If it drops below $200 again, then I'm bearish.  I'm a little more bearish than bullish right now.

----------


## presence

> I think I gave people the wrong Bitfinex referral code before.  If anyone's interested, it's 4DMKzxPO8F.
> 
> My take right now is basically that, if it goes above $220, then I'm bullish.  If it drops below $200 again, then I'm bearish.  I'm a little more bearish than bullish right now.


Just hang tight and cherish your coins.  1450 china 2-3 days.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Just hang tight and cherish your coins.  1450 china 2-3 days.


I don't know...



Market made a third lower high and is now in the process of going below $200 yet again.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

What are your thoughts on tracking Ripple? (XRP)?  Seems you just take any market, apply elliot wave theory, and direction found.  Some peoples methods are better than others, but the waves tend to move roughly all the same.

I think Ripple is a 100% pre-mined turd, but the goal is to just make more BTC anyway.  I've noticed Ripple has an inverse relationship with Bitcoin in the last few months.  It is fighting with Litecoin for distant 2nd.

----------


## muh_roads

Also, did some research on this. Just wanted to warn people to be careful of Paycoin.

70% pre-mine.
Created by GAWMiners who sell hardware. Many say they are scammers. They are also getting sued it seems.
Some sort of weird promise of a $20 floor?  Doesn't make sense.

You have a 50-50 shot of getting in on a bubble.  Or you could lose it all.  I'd say it is a gamble.

----------


## Dianne

> Also, did some research on this. Just wanted to warn people to be careful of Paycoin.
> 
> 70% pre-mine.
> Created by GAWMiners who sell hardware. Many say they are scammers. They are also getting sued it seems.
> Some sort of weird promise of a $20 floor?  Doesn't make sense.
> 
> You have a 50-50 shot of getting in on a bubble.  Or you could lose it all.  I'd say it is a gamble.


Too late for me.. I bought in at 0.04.   If I sell now I take a 50% loss, so just hoping one more pump to get out of it.   I was impressed with the volume and thought it would be a winner.     I was also suckered in my all the trollbox hype lolol...    I'm a terrible investor.

----------


## presence

> What are your thoughts on tracking Ripple? (XRP)?  Seems you just take any market, apply elliot wave theory, and direction found.  Some peoples methods are better than others, but the waves tend to move roughly all the same.
> 
> I think Ripple is a 100% pre-mined turd, but the goal is to just make more BTC anyway.  I've noticed Ripple has an inverse relationship with Bitcoin in the last few months.  It is fighting with Litecoin for distant 2nd.


Like anything else... it can be traded.  I try not to trade things unless I feel a "good vibe" I like to stand behind movements I can believe in... this is not to say I haven't had some ill relationships with some scam coins... but for the most part "pre-mined turd" is a little too _ugly crazy bitch with STD_ for me.  


I did and do believe in MYR; incredible architecture and brilliant dev.

_I own 1% of MYR in existance._

Unfortunately, Mintpal / Moola.io  stole it from me.

----------


## muh_roads

It's tough finding a good chartist that can do the 15m ticks and nail their targets or come close...  There seems to be a few decent ppl out there that can handle 1d and 4h and predict those fairly well.  But 15m would be invaluable in these times.  Volatility seems to be back.

This seems to want to bounce between 150-300 for a while.  Lots of BTC could be made here if played right.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's tough finding a good chartist that can do the 15m ticks and nail their targets or come close...  There seems to be a few decent ppl out there that can handle 1d and 4h and predict those fairly well.  But 15m would be invaluable in these times.  Volatility seems to be back.
> 
> This seems to want to bounce between 150-300 for a while.  Lots of BTC could be made here if played right.


The problem with such small time frames is not that people aren't skilled enough to do them, it's that they're unreliable.  You can't trust movements on such a small scale to represent anything larger because there are so many meaningless data points.  

On another note, though, I'm back in and holding my coins, cherishing them as pres said.  I've got my stops placed if I'm wrong.

----------


## muh_roads

> On another note, though, I'm back in and holding my coins, cherishing them as pres said.  I've got my stops placed if I'm wrong.


How do you handle your stops?  Are your they set to $10 below your entry?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> How do you handle your stops?  Are your they set to $10 below your entry?


It's not a set dollar amount.  You have to look for areas of support and resistance.  It varies depending on the situation.  For instance, if you just passed an area of huge resistance, you might buy above it and set your stops below it, expecting for the price to increase.  The opposite is also true.  You just have to look for areas of confluence, or price levels where there has been a lot of trading in the past.

----------


## muh_roads

> It's not a set dollar amount.  You have to look for areas of support and resistance.  It varies depending on the situation.  For instance, if you just passed an area of huge resistance, you might buy above it and set your stops below it, expecting for the price to increase.  The opposite is also true.  You just have to look for areas of confluence, or price levels where there has been a lot of trading in the past.


Since you're back in, what support are you watching to see if it breaks or not which would further signal more down?

Thanks again.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Since you're back in, what support are you watching to see if it breaks or not which would further signal more down?
> 
> Thanks again.


$192.  I'm back out.

----------


## presence

Latest version showing 2269X BTC Dec 2011 to present.


You guys are so finicky.

Just hold.

Honey Badger says another 6 days.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Latest version showing 2269X BTC Dec 2011 to present.
> 
> 
> You guys are so finicky.
> 
> Just hold.
> 
> Honey Badger says another 6 days.


Maybe so, but I never assume.  I do feel optimistic, though.  I've got a stop buy order at $204 and I will keep it there.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Wow, I'm glad I didn't try to short that.  It was looking so bearish, but I wasn't convinced.  Now I AM convinced that we are in a real bull market.  My buy orders got filled, so I'm glad I had those.  I'm ready for the action.

Nice job, pres.

----------


## muh_roads

I think we survived "despair".  Just gotta do the best we can during consolidation for the next 2 months.  I strongly feel we'll see $500+ again by the middle of this year.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think we survived "despair".  Just gotta do the best we can during consolidation for the next 2 months.  I strongly feel we'll see $500+ again by the middle of this year.


I agree.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Friends, I think the bear market is over.  Regardless of what you know about TA, the price is low enough now that you can buy confidently and expect higher prices.  We don't know exactly how high, but I believe it will be quite a bit higher.  This is THE time to buy.  



Description at link:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/MrIwDn9X/

----------


## amonasro

I'm also thinking that if this isn't the bottom, we are pretty close. The capitulation was a volume monster and we're getting a nice 3d green candle forming after it. I've been building a big long position over the last few weeks but if we move back towards $150 I may close it out depending on if support is broken or not.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

OMG guys, let's face it... no one knows what bitcoin is going to do.    If we look at prior posts on this forum, it is clear that 75% of them never panned out.     This is new ground, new terrority and I am convinced no one here or anywhere knows where bitcoin is going.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> OMG guys, let's face it... no one knows what bitcoin is going to do.    If we look at prior posts on this forum, it is clear that 75% of them never panned out.     This is new ground, new terrority and I am convinced no one here or anywhere knows where bitcoin is going.


I'm sorry you feel that way.  Bad trade?

Just because it doesn't come true immediately, that doesn't mean it doesn't come true.  I've waffled a few times over the last few weeks, but I always knew the bottom was near.

Honestly, though, this is the kind of thing I would expect in the "despair" phase.  Just watch...

----------


## Crashland

> I'm sorry you feel that way.  Bad trade?
> 
> Just because it doesn't come true immediately, that doesn't mean it doesn't come true.  I've waffled a few times over the last few weeks, but I always knew the bottom was near.
> 
> Honestly, though, this is the kind of thing I would expect in the "despair" phase.  Just watch...


Is there any particular reason you think the downtrend has ended? And I mean like, longer horizon not 24 hours.

----------


## KCIndy

> OMG guys, let's face it... no one knows what bitcoin is going to do.    If we look at prior posts on this forum, it is clear that 75% of them never panned out.     This is new ground, new terrority and I am convinced no one here or anywhere knows where bitcoin is going.


+Rep! 

I'm a big fan of Bitcoin, in part because it's radically different and represents an unprecedented financial paradigm.  But *because* it is so radically different, we're talking Brave New World territory here.

No guarantees... except perhaps to say regardless of what happens, it's gonna be one helluva ride!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Is there any particular reason you think the downtrend has ended? And I mean like, longer horizon not 24 hours.


There are a few reasons, which I gave in the description of my last chart.  Basically, we've reached a point in the downtrend where everyone who was going to sell has sold and now it's just fear controlling the market.  Once that wears off, however, and people realize that there are no more sellers left, people are going to start buying back in.  If bitcoin was going to die, it would have done it much faster.  It took us over a year to get to this point and we have never broken the downtrend.  Nothing lasts forever.  Even if we were going to crash and die after that, the bear trend has to be interrupted at some point.  

This is all just context, though.  The technical indicators paint a promising picture as well.  We have hit important points of support, which I indicated on my chart (above) and we have been in a bullish wedge for over a year.  This means that the market has been consistently making lower lows and going further and further down, but it has never really crashed.  At some point, something has to give.  If the market was consistently making lower highs without making any lower lows, then I would be concerned, but the market has been dragging down consistently for over a year and it has to end at some point.  I don't say that out of frustration, either.  I say that out of awareness for how markets act.  They just don't stay in a downtrend forever, and this time we've gone so far down that it is bound make a move to the upside, and we happen to be at the end of the wedge, so that means breaking the long-term downtrend this time means establishing a new bull trend.  

So, while nothing is certain, I think this is a safe long-term bet.  The trends have been well-established and breaking them really means something this time.  Even if it does, by some chance, make a new low, it can't last.  If I'm wrong this time, then I'm done with bitcoin.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

This support level would've folded quickly and easily (on a dime) if the sentiment hadn't changed and the oversold market wasn't a reality. The weekends have always featured a disgusting dump; last weekend was the alleged kiss of death but things have changed, likely for good at this status. There would be no support for an uptick as is happening now w/o a change in the mindset of the market. There's been too many bears that have been stripped clean for any blood bath to continue or it would've happened already. So, chill and ride the wave up for the short term, the big boy slide is coming later on.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Earlier it was yoyo-ing around 211-213ish and in the last few hrs it's been 214-216 trying to move up. Still seems like the jury is out on where this market should go but it has been inching up so maybe the momentum will start to sink in and help the fence sitters make up their minds.

----------


## amonasro

http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/i...3&newsid=28438




> NYSE Completes Minority Investment in Coinbase
> Released : 20 January 2015
> 
> NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Intercontinental Exchange (NYSE: ICE), the leading global network of exchanges and clearing houses, announced today that its wholly-owned subsidiary, The New York Stock Exchange, has made a minority investment in Coinbase, a leading bitcoin wallet and platform with over 2.1 million consumer wallets, 38,000 merchants and 7,000 developers.
> 
> Coinbase was established in 2012 in San Francisco and provides a platform for people to easily and securely use the digital currency bitcoin.
> 
> With this investment, we are tapping into a new asset class by teaming up with a leading platform that is bringing transparency, security and confidence to an important growth market, said NYSE President Tom Farley. We look forward to supporting Coinbases growth utilizing our global distribution capabilities and market expertise.
> 
> The New York Stock Exchange will work with Coinbase to bring additional transparency to bitcoin pricing. ICE is a leading provider of financial information and market data and has worked through its benchmark administration business to restore confidence and integrity in financial data.

----------


## muh_roads

> http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/i...3&newsid=28438


Wow.  Wall Street is in.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Earlier it was yoyo-ing around 211-213ish and in the last few hrs it's been 214-216 trying to move up. Still seems like the jury is out on where this market should go but it has been inching up so maybe the momentum will start to sink in and help the fence sitters make up their minds.


Still making higher lows, so it still looks promising.  Just taking for freaking ever.

----------


## presence

> Is there any particular reason you think the downtrend has ended? And I mean like, longer horizon not 24 hours.


There has not been a time in the past 3 years of BTC that 12h ma2 has been below .75 * 12h ma55 that it was not a good time to buy and hold minimum of until 6 days after it crosses back above .75 * 12h ma55.

The value of ma55 in the past hour is

271.7141 * 0.75 = 203 (and falling)

12h ma2 is

 208.9615 (and rising/sideways)

It crossed down last week and just crossed up today
*
Hold min 5 more days.*

----------


## presence

_ltcbtc to da flo >>>>_

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Interesting opinion that I found and thought I'd share to stimulate some discussion:



> How far is this from being a possible scenario for 2015? 
> 
> The bottom is in. After a huge volume capitulation the bears cannot push the price down any lower - the invisible selling hand has stopped selling.
> 
> VC funding continues to pour into the space ignoring the bitcoin price entirely (75,000,000 USD in coinbase today including investment from US banking partners). The reason for banks investing is they know that the Bitlicense (due to be released in days) is positive for bitcoin. Once bitlicense is released and major players are positioned the ETF will go live shortly after, resulting in an avalanche of investment capital entering the space.
> 
> The entire 'crash' of inexplicable selling (in a sea of positive fundamentals) has been major players manipulating the market to buy up as many coins as possible for the next bull run. 
> 
> They are now positioned and with short interest near ATH's still and long interest languishing at levels not seen for almost a year, it is time to push the price back upwards. This will squeeze the only gamblers who aren't in on the move - retail shorters - who are all sure we will see sub $100 coins. The squeeze will signal the start of the next bull run and drive the price back upwards towards 500 dollars where it will stabilise temporarily.
> ...

----------


## presence

moon?

----------


## Dianne

> Interesting opinion that I found and thought I'd share to stimulate some discussion:


I hope he's right.

----------


## muh_roads

Got word that Winklevoss ETF (nasdaq listing = COIN) has some big news to announce on Monday.  I don't think they would set ppl up to wait for bad news.  If it was bad, it would be announced already.

As with anything...we'll find out soon.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I hope he's right.


In case you wanted to know, the technical analyst guy I know that I told you about before just bought in.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> In case you wanted to know, the technical analyst guy I know that I told you about before just bought in.


Check out this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931743.0
- the thesis or TL;DR is basically we're on the flip side of a bottom just like in the aftermath of the bottom ($65) in July 2013 where we recover 40% by the end of the seventh day. Today being exactly one week from our $152, we're at $225ish which is a similar retracement. Anyways, he's got graphs to supplement his point and it seems very plausible that we're in a fresh turnaround. Things could be on the move rather swiftly between our current position and this summer. We obviously have some room to make up.

----------


## squarepusher

> Check out this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931743.0
> - the thesis or TL;DR is basically we're on the flip side of a bottom just like in the aftermath of the bottom ($65) in July 2013 where we recover 40% by the end of the seventh day. Today being exactly one week from our $152, we're at $225ish which is a similar retracement. Anyways, he's got graphs to supplement his point and it seems very plausible that we're in a fresh turnaround. Things could be on the move rather swiftly between our current position and this summer. We obviously have some room to make up.


cheap coinz??

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Check out this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931743.0
> - the thesis or TL;DR is basically we're on the flip side of a bottom just like in the aftermath of the bottom ($65) in July 2013 where we recover 40% by the end of the seventh day. Today being exactly one week from our $152, we're at $225ish which is a similar retracement. Anyways, he's got graphs to supplement his point and it seems very plausible that we're in a fresh turnaround. Things could be on the move rather swiftly between our current position and this summer. We obviously have some room to make up.


Very interesting.  I think it's plausible.  It's really hard to imagine the bears pushing this any lower with how much selling action has gone on since the last bubble.  As many people have said, the last bubble really was a bubble and we're in despair mode now.  We're so low that many people have taken their ball and went home, which is exactly the kind of environment pro traders look to get in on.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger holding minimum of 76 more hours.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

230 wall got honey badgered CCMF! 

premature i know but was waiting to say it.

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## FSP-Rebel

Figured I post this cause I saw this guy making his case on Twitter a few days before the last mini-surge and in this video you'll soon see that apparently there was some sort of coordinated whale attempt to pull this thing off. He talks crap about any sort of charts or any of that which is why I'm wondering what pres' bot saw to stay engaged as opposed to what was also happening behind the scenes by these guys allegedly. 


Thoughts?

----------


## presence

> ^Is their a traditional amount of time after selling in such an occasion that the bot sits on the sidelines waiting for the next buy signal? Like 2-4 days or more, just curious?


Yes.  Every Honey Badger buy OR sell signal will have an automatic "Hold" after investing/divesting to prevent flash trades of minimum 12 hours... maximum 12 days depending on why the decision was made (its subclass number).

Average hold is about 48 hours... and average time that a trade actually occurs after the hold is lifted is about a week.

There are over rides for all holds depending on the subclass of the next decision.

----------


## presence

dp

----------


## muh_roads

> Figured I post this cause I saw this guy making his case on Twitter a few days before the last mini-surge and in this video you'll soon see that apparently there was some sort of coordinated whale attempt to pull this thing off. He talks crap about any sort of charts or any of that which is why I'm wondering what pres' bot saw to stay engaged as opposed to what was also happening behind the scenes by these guys allegedly. 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?


I disagree and agree with him saying charts don't matter.  A lot of people follow the same A-B-C-D-E 1-2-3-4-5 elliot wave patterns.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy just because it's the nature of so many people trading that way.  The 4H is still a good indicator IMO.

I will agree that trying to chart on the 5m, 15m, etc is a bit like gambling.  I don't listen to TeamSpeak but the twitter account for WhaleClubCo posts wayyyy too much.  He is a prime example of over trading with his constant 5m charts.

But I don't know a single trader who wins every single time.  A good trader knows when to use stops, something I'm still trying to grasp.  But when mistakes are made, your coins transfer to someone else.  And with a predictable rate of decreasing inflation over time, the coins eventually spread to more hands and become more rare.

Regardless, I'm following him for the hell of it.  Thanks for posting.

----------


## presence

> I'm wondering what pres' bot saw to stay engaged as opposed to what was also happening behind the scenes by these guys allegedly. 
> 
> Thoughts?



Someone put sold 1500 BTC w/ market order and put 2 @ 1500 Sell walls behind it at bitstamp today.

I watched them get eaten almost as fast as they went on the books.  The whole event lasted less than 10 minutes, see big red candle in middle:




Sometimes whale games do influence markets... other times...   not so much.  


Sure... you can manipulate markets w/ big orders... but at the same time... you can get eaten.

Either way... if they're successful... a bot sees it... if they're unsuccessful... a bot sees that too.  

Bots generally aren't too concerned with price... they're concerned with moving averages and other derived indicators. 


Bots do things like... ohh look the little white line just crossed above the orange pink and blue... and they all have positive slope...

BUY

----------


## PaulConventionWV

We may get a pullback to the $215-$220 range, but I'm still feeling pretty good about a run to $270s.

----------


## presence

Keep your eyes on your 4h chart... 10, 30, 60, 90 MA. 

30/60 crossed bull a few days ago
10/90 about to cross hard 90 degree bull in the next 24 hours.

10/90 has been crossed down since price was $360.  





Honey Badger says hold another 40 hours at minimum.
My gut says 60 more hours.

----------


## fatjohn

> Keep your eyes on your 4h chart... 10, 30, 60, 90 MA. 
> 
> 30/60 crossed bull a few days ago
> 10/90 about to cross hard 90 degree bull in the next 24 hours.
> 
> 10/90 has been crossed down since price was $360.  
> 
> Honey Badger says hold another 40 hours at minimum.
> My gut says 60 more hours.


So you are still looking at a price rise to 300 in the next two days?
Edit: I think the 10 and 50 on the 4h are more telling. That's when the waterfall started. Same with bitcoin but even clearer to see on litecoin.

What do you think of the 4-day to 80 day moving average.
There have been two periods of approximately 3-1/2 months that the 4 day went under the 80 day. Now we're 1-1/2 into the third period.
If these periods kind of repeat, than we're looking to a rally to 260 in the next days with consolidation around 200 and than a crossing of the 4 and 80 at about 250 in two months time.

Another interesting thing i noticed. When the 2011 bear market bottomed, Mt Gox data was about 500 days old. Therefore, the longest moving day average that you can use to compare that bear market with this one is the 500-day. The bottom then was about half of the 500 day moving average. Here we have already seen a bottom that was less than 1/3rd the 500 day. Sometimes new stuff happens.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger poised for 5th consecutive LIVE profitable trade since start.  

Finex at 241.   

Honey Badger to dump in about 16 hours.

----------


## presence

> So you are still looking at a price rise to 300 in the next two days?


If you look back a few pages... Manually trading, I'm looking for price to approach 275 at a high end in the next 24 - 48 hours.     260 might be a more conservative local top. 


I expect a two week decline to 225.  Then back to 300 by end of February.  I posted an interpolation on page 92 or 93 which showed this... 

Then towards mid march a consolidation to 260.

----------


## presence

Here's the link to that interpolation:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5754474

----------


## presence

Market order bot just pushed LTCUSD to $2.86 w/ $80,000 order.  Okcoin and Huobi basically didn't move.

----------


## presence

> I disagree and agree with him saying charts don't matter. 
> 
> []
> 
> Regardless, I'm following him for the hell of it.  Thanks for posting.




Interesting tidbits about Adam Guerbuez

He "owes" Facebook


_ONE BILLION DOLLARS_


For running a phishing botnet that stole passwords and posted adverts for penis pills.

And his favorite band is Dying Fetus:

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Interesting tidbits about Adam Guerbuez
> 
> He "owes" Facebook
> 
> 
> _ONE BILLION DOLLARS_
> 
> 
> For running a phishing botnet that stole passwords and posted adverts for penis pills.
> ...


He sounds like one strange dude.

----------


## Crashland

Quite a bump for litecoin today wow

----------


## PaulConventionWV

https://www.tradingview.com/v/Tn9UOEqm/

Description at link.

----------


## presence

*SOLD ~250 @ 1AM EST SUNDAY*

[2015-01-25 01:02:00]  SELL: BTC (at 249.243 USD)
[2015-01-25 01:02:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "FIAT TIME"
[2015-01-25 01:02:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!

----------


## Dianne

> *SOLD ~250 @ 1AM EST SUNDAY*
> 
> [2015-01-25 01:02:00]  SELL: BTC (at 249.243 USD)
> [2015-01-25 01:02:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "FIAT TIME"
> [2015-01-25 01:02:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!


Thanks for keeping us on top of things !!   I missed the $250. sell, unfortunately.    We're at $242.00 atm.

----------


## presence



----------


## ronmartin13

Pres I've been following this thread since you created it. I am extremely irritated at myself for hesitating with this whole bot trading. Could you direct me to an area where I can catch up on the whats and nots of bot trading. Especially honey badger. I Know I missed some great opportunities, hoping I can avoid missing more.

----------


## Dianne

> Pres I've been following this thread since you created it. I am extremely irritated at myself for hesitating with this whole bot trading. Could you direct me to an area where I can catch up on the whats and nots of bot trading. Especially honey badger. I Know I missed some great opportunities, hoping I can avoid missing more.


Same here.

----------


## muh_roads

I missed everyones calls of exiting mid 250's.  Got out 244-245.  Now it is pumping back to 250...lol

Someone remind me again to not over trade.  I'm tempted to jump back in.

EDIT: And there is the giant red dildo by the facebook scammer. lol  Glad I didn't fall for it.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

We all know the Winkies have their thing going on tomorrow and now this earlier in the morning rights aroun the markets opening - https://www.coinbase.com/lunar
Which seems to be making an exchange of sorts out of Coinbase rather than just their current broker status. Obviously, this is on the heels of the major VC money they just got by NYSE and co so this could be an attempt to one-up the Winkies and not sure what to make of this and whether this will move the price or not in any significant way. I know the "buy the rumor, sell the news" routine so I'm not sure what to make of it or tomorrow in general. Thoughts?

----------


## muh_roads

> We all know the Winkies have their thing going on tomorrow and now this earlier in the morning rights aroun the markets opening - https://www.coinbase.com/lunar
> Which seems to be making an exchange of sorts out of Coinbase rather than just their current broker status. Obviously, this is on the heels of the major VC money they just got by NYSE and co so this could be an attempt to one-up the Winkies and not sure what to make of this and whether this will move the price or not in any significant way. I know the "buy the rumor, sell the news" routine so I'm not sure what to make of it or tomorrow in general. Thoughts?


You must've read the same tweet by Charlie Shrem as I did.  lol  

**high $#@!in' five**

Here comes the "regulated" naked shorting.  Watch this go to 400, then 40, then 4000.  LOL

This $#@! is just too fun.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> You must've read the same tweet by Charlie Shrem as I did.  lol  
> 
> **high $#@!in' five**
> 
> Here comes the "regulated" naked shorting.  Watch this go to 400, then 40, then 4000.  LOL
> 
> This $#@! is just too fun.


 The other thing going on is the recent upswings in litecoin and peercoin which tend to chase BTC in a bull market and even outmaneuver it during the rally. One could say that these two finally caught up w/ BTC's recent mini-rally and then this is it for now or perhaps something else is afoot. As usual, it's a tough read atm.

----------


## presence

> Someone remind me again to not over trade.  I'm tempted to jump back in.


If you want to play... play with a small part of your bank.

Otherwise think like honey badger and be hell bent after a sale... mandatory minimum hold time of 12 hours to 12 days.

When sell day comes you'll often miss the absolute peak... but








> Don't go chasing waterfalls.
> Please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to.
> I know that you're gonna have it your way or nothing at all, 
> But I think you're moving too fast.
> 
> I seen rainbow yesterday
> But too many storms have come and gone

----------


## presence

> Thanks for keeping us on top of things !!   I missed the $250. sell, unfortunately.    We're at $242.00 atm.


Never panic. 

 I play the long chart.  I dump when there's bullish volume because I'm moving many banks and I want to ensure everyone's orders without slippage.   I wouldn't be surprised or butt hurt if the chart still hit 265 - 275.    When Honey Badger bought 205 it was the day before it hit 152 on bitstamp.    

My house is still plenty clean selling 312, buying (honeybadger average) 205, and dumping close to 250.




Regardless... for me its sell day.  I dumped as a matter moving average crosses and timing; mechanically.   It so happens I got 249.  Some of my people got 245, 248... as high as 252.7.   Long, these deviations don't matter.  Last night was the "center" of sell for me; you're not far off and you might well get a better price.  

Never panic, make a graceful exit.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Looks like we may reach $275 after all.  Cool!

----------


## muh_roads

> Looks like we may reach $275 after all.  Cool!


I take it you got back in after getting out 259?

This is gay...lol grrrr

----------


## muh_roads

> The other thing going on is the recent upswings in litecoin and peercoin which tend to chase BTC in a bull market and even outmaneuver it during the rally. One could say that these two finally caught up w/ BTC's recent mini-rally and then this is it for now or perhaps something else is afoot. As usual, it's a tough read atm.


LTC had a crazy day yesterday.  Was up 50%.

----------


## presence

Focus on the red and green trades.  The pink ones will get you burned and turn your hair gray; they're just noise.  Nobody can predict that accurately; and even if they can... they won't be able to do it with $250,000.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I take it you got back in after getting out 259?
> 
> This is gay...lol grrrr


Well, not necessarily... but yes, I'm taking one more scalp trade because I feel like I know what I'm doing.  I wouldn't advise this, though.

----------


## muh_roads

> Focus on the red and green trades.  The pink ones will get you burned and turn your hair gray; they're just noise.  Nobody can predict that accurately; and even if they can... they won't be able to do it with $250,000.


Appreciate the reminder.  It still stings.  We sat around at 160'ish for a while.  Oh well.  If this thing wants to keep pumping I can throw more at it to exit.  $#@!ing whales.  lol

Holy doji batman on btc-e...LOL

----------


## amonasro

Still in from a fat leveraged long position sub $200. Pres, you may have been right about $275. Seems like we still have some steam left.

----------


## presence

> Appreciate the reminder.  It still stings.  We sat around at 160'ish for a while.  Oh well.


Watch your long MA's w/ Steel balls. 





> Holy doji batman on btc-e...LOL


holy epic crazy $#@! right? 


 


Case in point why I don't trade the fringe.

----------


## amonasro

Those thin btc-e orderbooks!

----------


## muh_roads

> Still in from a fat leveraged long position sub $200. Pres, you may have been right about $275. Seems like we still have some steam left.


You doing 20x leverage?  okcoin?

Yeah should've stuck with the original plan of $275.  We're just too scalpy and jumpy around here.

----------


## amonasro

> You doing 20x leverage?  okcoin?
> 
> Yeah should've stuck with the original plan of $275.  We're just too scalpy and jumpy around here.


No, just 3.3x over on Finex, but I took some coins out of cold storage as extra collateral. A bit risky, but trading opportunities don't come along like this very often.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm out again at $270.  Just made 6.3% in 20 minutes.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm out again at $270.  Just made 6.3% in 20 minutes.


Well done sir.

----------


## muh_roads

> No, just 3.3x over on Finex, but I took some coins out of cold storage as extra collateral. A bit risky, but trading opportunities don't come along like this very often.


Can you explain how that works?  Does it essentially borrow 3.3x more coins from someone else?  You don't get the 3.3x more coins but you get a big chunk of their profit?

----------


## amonasro

> Can you explain how that works?  Does it essentially borrow 3.3x more coins from someone else?  You don't get the 3.3x more coins but you get a big chunk of their profit?


Pretty much, you get all the profit after you pay back the loan. 

When you trade on margin @ Finex, you put BTC or USD into your trading account. You buy and sell against that collateral so every position you take is borrowed. So my long position is borrowed USD to buy BTC, and a short position is borrowed BTC to sell it. There's a whole market built inside Finex with available USD and BTC swaps to borrow and interest rates that constantly change based on demand. It's kind of complicated when you first do it.

But inherently it is risky and one should know exactly what they are doing. Looks like a lot of shorts (over 5,000btc) got liquidated on this recent pump.

edit:

----------


## presence

> Can you explain how that works?  Does it essentially borrow 3.3x more coins from someone else?  You don't get the 3.3x more coins but you get a big chunk of their profit?


http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answ...eandmargin.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_...n_requirements


"Silver Thursday" 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

----------


## Crashland

$290. breaking another resistance?

----------


## amonasro

Holy balls we're going to test $300.

----------


## muh_roads

Knew I should've got back in when I seen that coinbase/lunar post this afternoon.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Knew I should've got back in when I seen that coinbase/lunar post this afternoon.


Yes, sometimes it's frustrating seeing the market go up without you.  Show's probably over now, though.  Don't get in if you haven't yet.

On the other hand, I'm really glad I took that trade now.  I almost didn't.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yes, sometimes it's frustrating seeing the market go up without you.  Show's probably over now, though.  Don't get in if you haven't yet.


The way this is moving, I think the pullback might only be 250.  This is acting as if it's go time.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The way this is moving, I think the pullback might only be 250.  This is acting as if it's go time.


Hard to say right now, but $225 is still very realistic.

----------


## presence

200 to 250 was an easy 25%.


Don't $#@! w/ 275. 

In 2 weeks...

225 - 300 is the next train ride.

----------


## amonasro

Enough is enough. Got out @ $288.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

5k shorts got squeezed from what I've seen.  That's the size of it for now. Can't find the chart.

----------


## muh_roads

> Enough is enough. Got out @ $288.


Congrats!  

Sorry if I'm being bitchy everyone, heh.  Was building a computer tonight while looking at the charts at the same time...couldn't get the damn BIOS to post.  Just a frustrating $#@!ty night all around.

I wish I supported closer to 200.  I was closer to 220-230. Watching it dip to 160 with my thumb in my ass and then getting out 245 or a little under kinda feels like the last 2 weeks was a waste of time.  I hate wasting time, heh.  Just didn't play that right at all.  Oh well, profit is profit.

----------


## presence

I posted this on the 15th but its worth repeating as we approach the local market top.

----------


## amonasro

> Congrats!  
> 
> Sorry if I'm being bitchy, heh.  Was building a computer tonight at the same time and couldn't get the damn BIOS to post.  Just a frustrating night all around.


No worries, I know the pain. Try watercooling... now THAT is a pain in the ass.

----------


## presence

> Enough is enough. Got out @ $288.


That's boss homie.  Nice score.

----------


## amonasro

> That's boss homie.  Nice score.


Thanks man, my most profitable trade to date!

----------


## presence

Noteworthy... the 50X freeware Honey Badger is still holding since 191 BTCe and 184 Bitstamp.

https://tradewave.net/strategy/pEvUZKWDzd/editor

----------


## muh_roads

This sux...lol

I have a lot less BTC than I did 24 hours ago.

The coinbase pump was greatly miscalculated.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> This sux...lol
> 
> I have a lot less BTC than I did 24 hours ago.
> 
> The coinbase pump was greatly miscalculated.


Not to worry.  We'll see lower prices soon.

----------


## presence

> This sux...lol
> 
> I have a lot less BTC than I did 24 hours ago.
> 
> The coinbase pump was greatly miscalculated.


You should be in USD.  


This price is non sustainable short.  Its a panic buy.  "102" 

The ride was 200  to 250.  This is fringe; you can't assess your portfolio value on fringe pricing.

12h MA7 is what coins cost; its at 259.

I'm thankful BTC swings from 150 to 300 in 10 days.  It makes buying 200 and selling 250 child's play.

I used to get all worked up over these panic spikes, "Its the end of the world... I'll never be able to have as many coins as I used to."  etc.

Its just not true.  Everything returns like a magnet to the mean.   

$300 is exciting... it puts a smirk on my face... but I just don't give a $#@!:



I trade indicators not price.  

Indicators said overbought, I sold.  
Now they say grossly overbought, I hold.

FIAT OR CRY.

----------


## presence

> Everything returns like a magnet to the mean.   
> 
> []
> 
> FIAT OR CRY.

----------


## muh_roads

> You should be in USD.  
> 
> 
> This price is non sustainable short.  Its a panic buy.  "102" 
> 
> The ride was 200  to 250.  This is fringe; you can't assess your portfolio value on fringe pricing.
> 
> 12h MA7 is what coins cost; its at 259.
> 
> ...


It's all good.  When I said "I have less BTC than before", I'm referring to the little "Estimated BTC" value on zTrader app.  It judges how much BTC you could have if you bought in at that moment. As u sit in fiat, it was frustrating watching my estimated BTC count drop, drop, drop as the spot price kept rising.  Getting out at 245 was really dumb of me yesterday.  Trading on the 15m is kinda stupid IMO.  4H is what I need to stick with.  I'm not good at scalping.  Whenever I deviate from a plan, I always lose.  We originally said 275+...we should've stuck with that.  I'm glad to see amonsaro did.

We need to learn.  Buy the hype.  Sell the news.  Yesterday was definitely a coinbase news pump day for sure.

----------


## presence

Damn... the open source 50X Honey Badger PWNED the 2269X on these last two trades:




> [2015-01-14 03:00:00] PURGATORY
> [2015-01-14 03:00:00]  BUY: 3.6533684 BTC (at 191.604 USD)
> 
> ...
> 
> [2015-01-26 09:00:00] DEEPER
> [2015-01-26 09:00:00]  SELL: 3.64606166 BTC (at 294.00 USD)

----------


## amonasro

Stick to the plan is right. It's really hard though in the heat of a buying panic. After I closed out my long last night I got burned on a smaller short from $285 and I panic stopped it out way too high. Idiot! I walked away for a few minutes, gathered myself while thinking "stick to the plan, stick to the plan, look at the big picture..."

Put in a short @ $295 after things settled and price looked tapped out. That made up for it plus some. I'm thinking $250 as a conservative target unless selling really pours in. Thoughts?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I honestly think the correction may be over already.  Support at $255 is holding well.  If this really is the start of a new uptrend, which I think it is, then the moves we still have to come are going to make this recent parabolic move look like peanuts.  You won't realize it until what looks like a huge green bar right now is a little green speck at the bottom of your screen.  I don't think we're going to see $220s again.  

Call it hype, but if it moves above $280 again, you'll know I'm right.

----------


## amonasro

> I honestly think the correction may be over already.  Support at $255 is holding well.  If this really is the start of a new uptrend, which I think it is, then the moves we still have to come are going to make this recent parabolic move look like peanuts.  You won't realize it until what looks like a huge green bar right now is a little green speck at the bottom of your screen.  I don't think we're going to see $220s again.  
> 
> Call it hype, but if it moves above $280 again, you'll know I'm right.


Thanks for your insight. Part of me agrees, but part of me is looking at another leg down to clear out the remaining bears. I'm fully aware we are probably going to see a solid rally in the next few months so I need to stop overthinking it--plenty of time to initiate a long once we break upwards.

----------


## muh_roads

> I honestly think the correction may be over already.  Support at $255 is holding well.  If this really is the start of a new uptrend, which I think it is, then the moves we still have to come are going to make this recent parabolic move look like peanuts.  You won't realize it until what looks like a huge green bar right now is a little green speck at the bottom of your screen.  I don't think we're going to see $220s again.  
> 
> Call it hype, but if it moves above $280 again, you'll know I'm right.


I don't wanna even post in here anymore.  I feel like whales are watching this thread as one of many.  lol

----------


## squarepusher

I have been following the Fibonacci Accordion 1W MACD loop-back trade recently with good results

----------


## fatjohn

> _ltcbtc to da flo >>>>_


Any new thoughts on ltcbtc pres?

----------


## presence

> Any new thoughts on ltcbtc pres?



[2015-01-25 09:00:00] DEEPER
[2015-01-25 09:00:00]  SELL: 321.42819743 LTC (at 2.089 USD)
[2015-01-25 09:00:00] Start Date....: 2014-06-04 18:00:00
[2015-01-25 09:00:00] Day: 234 Trades: 16 Frequency 14.0
[2015-01-25 09:00:00] USD 1000.0 / 628.4 / -37.2 ROI
[2015-01-25 09:00:00] LTC 90.0 / 321.4 / 257.2 ROI
[2015-01-25 09:00:00]



from the open source honey badger:



```
    if ((resistance < ma150) and
        (ma2 < ma90) and
        (ma2 < ma150) and
        (ma150 < ma150i) and 
        (resistance < ma90)):
        storage.red_dragon = 1

.....


    ### MODE 3 - RED DRAGON
    if ((mode == 3) and 
        (storage.mode == 3)):                
        signal_3 = mode_3()
        if signal_3 == 1:
            if currency > (ma2*Decimal(0.12)):
                log('PURGATORY')
                action = 1  
        elif signal_3 == -1:
            if assets > 0.12:
                log('DEEPER')
                action = -1  
.....


    top         = storage.ma55*Decimal(1.05)
    bottom      = storage.ma55*Decimal(0.75)
    
    signal = 0
    if ma2 < bottom:
        signal = 1
    elif ma2 > top:  
        signal = -1
    elif ((ma2 < ma2i) and
        (ma2 < ma30) and
        (ma2i > ma30)):
        signal = -1
 
    return signal
```

----------


## muh_roads

> I have been following the Fibonacci Accordion 1W MACD loop-back trade recently with good results


MACD on the 1W has been red for a while.  It's due for some green.  But not yet IMO.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Any new thoughts on ltcbtc pres?



I'm changing my tune.  I strongly suggest you keep a close eye on LTCBTC next 24 - 48 hours

LTCBTC very very very close = moon

1d moving averages:

IF:

*(ma5 > ma60) and   <<< TRUE
(ma30slope > 0) and <<< TRUE
(ma10 > ma30) and <<< TRUE*
(low12h > ma45)   <<< Still waiting on final confirm, low12h is just barely below ma45 right now.  

THEN:

*BUY*

----------


## presence

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/ltcb...ector-moon/416


*BUY LTC*

----------


## presence

Monitor 6h ma's 18, 20, 220, 240 on LTCBTC

----------


## Dianne

> https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/ltcb...ector-moon/416
> 
> 
> *BUY LTC*


I have a buy order in, but what are they expecting the increase to be?

----------


## presence

> I have a buy order in, but what are they expecting the increase to be?


All signals point to "this is the movement"  10X LTCBTC... 


I post charts brb.

----------


## Dianne

> All signals point to "this is the movement"  10X LTCBTC... 
> 
> 
> I post charts brb.


Before I go to bed tonight, should I place a sell order at 0.02?     Great stuff always happens while the U.S. is sleeping.

----------


## presence

*Article 1)*



SMA 10 / 90 12h cross... last time this happened was Nov 20 2013.


*Article 2)*




*Article 3)*






IMAGES MAY EXTEND OFF SCREEN, right click view image.


*Article 4)*

sma 30 day moving average slope flashed positive, is very near zero, and has about 75% less negative slope since it flashed positive:



```
[2015-01-21 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000491
[2015-01-21 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000538
[2015-01-21 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000785
[2015-01-21 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000870
[2015-01-21 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000253
[2015-01-21 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000708
[2015-01-21 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000804
[2015-01-21 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000277
[2015-01-21 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000239
[2015-01-21 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000338
[2015-01-21 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000826
[2015-01-21 13:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000837
[2015-01-21 14:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000830
[2015-01-21 15:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000833
[2015-01-21 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000847
[2015-01-21 17:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000896
[2015-01-21 18:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000927
[2015-01-21 19:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000896
[2015-01-21 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000892
[2015-01-21 21:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000913
[2015-01-21 22:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000871
[2015-01-21 23:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000875
[2015-01-22 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000837
[2015-01-22 01:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000851
[2015-01-22 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000854
[2015-01-22 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000844
[2015-01-22 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000861
[2015-01-22 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000861
[2015-01-22 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000868
[2015-01-22 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000878
[2015-01-22 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000875
[2015-01-22 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000889
[2015-01-22 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000889
[2015-01-22 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000885
[2015-01-22 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000899
[2015-01-22 13:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000879
[2015-01-22 14:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000878
[2015-01-22 15:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000868
[2015-01-22 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000858
[2015-01-22 17:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000861
[2015-01-22 18:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000851
[2015-01-22 19:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000858
[2015-01-22 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000858
[2015-01-22 21:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000844
[2015-01-22 22:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000833
[2015-01-22 23:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000844
[2015-01-23 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000830
[2015-01-23 01:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000830
[2015-01-23 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000826
[2015-01-23 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000823
[2015-01-23 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000819
[2015-01-23 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000840
[2015-01-23 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000837
[2015-01-23 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000830
[2015-01-23 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000823
[2015-01-23 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000837
[2015-01-23 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000833
[2015-01-23 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000840
[2015-01-23 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000788
[2015-01-23 13:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000795
[2015-01-23 14:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000788
[2015-01-23 15:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000799
[2015-01-23 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000795
[2015-01-23 17:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000792
[2015-01-23 18:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000767
[2015-01-23 19:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000792
[2015-01-23 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000781
[2015-01-23 21:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000795
[2015-01-23 22:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000799
[2015-01-23 23:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000799
[2015-01-24 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000799
[2015-01-24 01:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000816
[2015-01-24 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000795
[2015-01-24 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000781
[2015-01-24 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000799
[2015-01-24 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000785
[2015-01-24 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000757
[2015-01-24 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000743
[2015-01-24 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000715
[2015-01-24 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000698
[2015-01-24 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000740
[2015-01-24 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000712
[2015-01-24 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000691
[2015-01-24 13:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000535
[2015-01-24 14:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000441
[2015-01-24 15:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000399
[2015-01-24 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000393
[2015-01-24 17:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000406
[2015-01-24 18:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000330
[2015-01-24 19:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000344
[2015-01-24 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000330
[2015-01-24 21:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000146
[2015-01-24 22:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000163
[2015-01-24 23:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000142
[2015-01-25 00:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000135
[2015-01-25 01:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000191
[2015-01-25 02:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000118
[2015-01-25 03:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000010
[2015-01-25 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000111
[2015-01-25 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000094
[2015-01-25 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000069
[2015-01-25 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000132
[2015-01-25 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000090
[2015-01-25 09:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000021
[2015-01-25 10:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000149
[2015-01-25 11:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000073
[2015-01-25 12:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000090
[2015-01-25 13:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000090
[2015-01-25 14:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000115
[2015-01-25 15:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000101
[2015-01-25 16:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000129
[2015-01-25 17:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000201
[2015-01-25 18:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000149
[2015-01-25 19:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000149
[2015-01-25 20:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000212
[2015-01-25 21:00:00] ma30_slope: 0.000000070
[2015-01-25 22:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000056
[2015-01-25 23:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000132
[2015-01-26 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000174
[2015-01-26 01:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000195
[2015-01-26 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000198
[2015-01-26 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000347
[2015-01-26 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000313
[2015-01-26 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000316
[2015-01-26 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000323
[2015-01-26 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000295
[2015-01-26 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000306
[2015-01-26 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000330
[2015-01-26 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000368
[2015-01-26 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000372
[2015-01-26 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000309
[2015-01-26 13:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000285
[2015-01-26 14:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000292
[2015-01-26 15:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000267
[2015-01-26 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000278
[2015-01-26 17:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000285
[2015-01-26 18:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000260
[2015-01-26 19:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000316
[2015-01-26 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000323
[2015-01-26 21:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000309
[2015-01-26 22:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000323
[2015-01-26 23:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000351
[2015-01-27 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000365
[2015-01-27 01:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000344
[2015-01-27 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000361
[2015-01-27 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000375
[2015-01-27 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000358
[2015-01-27 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000347
[2015-01-27 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000385
[2015-01-27 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000392
[2015-01-27 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000288
[2015-01-27 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000226
[2015-01-27 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000201
[2015-01-27 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000236
[2015-01-27 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000254
[2015-01-27 13:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000188
[2015-01-27 14:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000205
[2015-01-27 15:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000212
[2015-01-27 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000229
[2015-01-27 17:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000236
[2015-01-27 18:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000208
[2015-01-27 19:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000205
[2015-01-27 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000181
[2015-01-27 21:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000267
[2015-01-27 22:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000281
[2015-01-27 23:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000250
[2015-01-28 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000226
[2015-01-28 01:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000254
[2015-01-28 02:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000267
[2015-01-28 03:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000264
[2015-01-28 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000222
[2015-01-28 05:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000233
[2015-01-28 06:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000236
[2015-01-28 07:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000271
[2015-01-28 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000254
[2015-01-28 09:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000243
[2015-01-28 10:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000271
[2015-01-28 11:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000240
[2015-01-28 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.000000243
```

----------


## presence

*Article 5)


*

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

Where we looking for BTC?  Went below 225 which was my guess.

Going to test 170 again?

----------


## amonasro

> Where we looking for BTC?  Went below 225 which was my guess.
> 
> Going to test 170 again?



I closed my my short at $233 at bfx. Volume was too low, looks too much like a beartrap.

----------


## presence

> I closed my my short at $233 at bfx. Volume was too low, looks too much like a beartrap.


yes... bear trap... it will round out.


BUY LTC... LTCBTC is about to do a Nov 20th 2013 mission

----------


## presence

http://i.imgur.com/AeZvBGc.png

----------


## amonasro

> yes... bear trap... it will round out.
> 
> 
> BUY LTC... LTCBTC is about to do a Nov 20th 2013 mission


Boom, look at those MAs. Just beautiful. Lock and load.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> yes... bear trap... it will round out.
> 
> 
> BUY LTC... LTCBTC is about to do a Nov 20th 2013 mission


Do you have a target in mind for LTCBTC?  I decided to divert a little bit of my funds to LTC for the first time in a long time.

----------


## presence

> Do you have a target in mind for LTCBTC?  I decided to divert a little bit of my funds to LTC for the first time in a long time.


I think fair is sell @ .05199 else stop loss at 5 day X 10 day cross down after breakout.

If you're buying in...

hold support at 4h MA27

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I think fair is sell @ .05199 else stop loss at 5 day X 10 day cross down after breakout.
> 
> If you're buying in...
> 
> hold support at 4h MA27


Does this mean you're expecting another BTC bubble, too?  Cuz that's what happens when LTCBTC goes up like that.

----------


## presence

> Does this mean you're expecting another BTC bubble, too?  Cuz that's what happens when LTCBTC goes up like that.


that would be the extended implication

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> that would be the extended implication


Nice

----------


## Dianne

> I think fair is sell @ .05199 else stop loss at 5 day X 10 day cross down after breakout.
> 
> If you're buying in...
> 
> hold support at 4h MA27


Is this still somewhere within the next 72 hours?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

He's back

----------


## Dianne

I'm at 50% btc and 50% ltc.     Presence, what should our LTC sell orders be set at?

----------


## presence

100% LTC

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm at 50% btc and 50% ltc.     Presence, what should our LTC sell orders be set at?


One reason why LTC is rising when paired against BTC is because its % value in USD is dropping significantly slower than BTC/USD right now.

My rebuy target for BTC is around 170.  I'd expect LTC to have a reversal around that time as well.

----------


## presence

> I'm at 50% btc and 50% ltc.     Presence, what should our LTC sell orders be set at?


safe exit when 5 day SMA crosses under 10 day SMA.

----------


## Dianne

> 100% LTC


Alright, I'm going all in ..  But damn, it's hard to see an .05 .   I'll be excited at an .02

----------


## muh_roads

.018 to .025 if we're lucky IMO.

.05 sounds kinda crazy.  That was during the height of the BTC top.

----------


## presence

> .018 to .025 if we're lucky IMO.
> 
> .05 sounds kinda crazy.  That was during the height of the BTC top.



funny... part of me is scared to dump at .05 in case it goes to .125

----------


## amonasro

> funny... part of me is scared to dump at .05 in case it goes to .125


How do you think this will play out? Will overall demand in LTC increase or will the bottom fall out of BTC?

----------


## muh_roads

> How do you think this will play out? Will overall demand in LTC increase or will the bottom fall out of BTC?


heh, BTC isn't going to die.  It is heading to below 200 tho.  And then back to 300's.

----------


## presence

SMA29day has now crossed to positive slope




```
[2015-01-27 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000169
[2015-01-27 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000153
[2015-01-27 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000128
[2015-01-27 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000105
[2015-01-28 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000107
[2015-01-28 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000114
[2015-01-28 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000118
[2015-01-28 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000118
[2015-01-28 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000112
[2015-01-28 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000106
[2015-01-29 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000094
[2015-01-29 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000085
[2015-01-29 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000075
[2015-01-29 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000067
[2015-01-29 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000066
[2015-01-29 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000069
[2015-01-30 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000077
[2015-01-30 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000077
[2015-01-30 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000069
[2015-01-30 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000060
[2015-01-30 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000050
[2015-01-30 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000046
[2015-01-31 00:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000035
[2015-01-31 04:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000031
[2015-01-31 08:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000030
[2015-01-31 12:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000035
[2015-01-31 16:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000034
[2015-01-31 20:00:00] ma30_slope: -0.0000021
```

----------


## PaulConventionWV

What puzzles me is that the BTC bubble should have already started by now if we were going to see a replay of Nov. 2013 soon.  How do you expect LTCBTC to rise so quickly with BTC still so low?

Do you think a LTC bubble could happen without a BTC bubble?

----------


## muh_roads

Kinda funny, I started supporting LTC and it started tanking...lol  Never fails.

----------


## Dianne

> Kinda funny, I started supporting LTC and it started tanking...lol  Never fails.


Nahhhhh, I'm usually the kiss of death and I went all in LTC yesterday.     Maybe it was you and I combined that tanked it lol.

----------


## newbitech

I'll just thro this out there and see if it plays out.  The scenario I found in the charts last Nov. came about a bit quicker than what I was reading.  however, the overall pattern still appears to be remaining in tact. 

I will be watching carefully these next 2 weeks.  To complete that pattern that I had originally anticipated for the bottom of this relatively long term bear, and see a reversal in the way that would give me confidence that the bottom has truly arrived, 2 things need to happen over the next 2 weeks.

This coming week I would look for a weekly close below 200.  I would expect somewhat light trading volume in the selling with a volume bar below last weeks green bar.  Overall down week in price action, but on lack of selling conviction. 

The second week, I would expect to see buyers moving in earnestly to drive the price above the top resist line briefly for a peek at possibly 400, but then ultimately close the week below that 340 level.  I would like to see the volume 2 weeks from now at or just below the volume from this week, but not above.  

If that scenario plays out, we'll have the left shoulder and head on the weekly chart.  I believe that set up gives us one final blow off on the bottom support levels to see a retest of the 160's and preferably a breach of that level in accordance with a weekly head and shoulders counter trend topping pattern.  

My target price would be 118 on bitstamp (and most likely the same on other charts, but don't have the data to back it up).

The 118 level is an approximate medium price level after the april 2013 bubble burst up until the launch of the nov 2013 bubble.  This would be an excellent bounce point for final blow off low and end the corrective phase and 2014 grizzly bear.  Bulls would have a highly technical support level to build on and trading at this level would smooth out BOTH of the previous bubbles.

I don't give this scenario a huge chance of playing out mostly because I don't know that buyers are ready for long term support of a STEADY upward price trend.  

Quite frankly, the bears have had their way with this market and buyers may just be content to let the price continue to leak value on a more steady down trend in this environment.  

All that being said, regardless if my scenario plays out, we are seeing much more volatility in the day to day, and hour to hour moves, so traders should be licking their chops as the market gyrates and current trends show fuzziness.  

I do note that the last 4-5 months of weekly trading are showing signs of life from buyers as we see larger and larger buying volume beginning to take place.  The concern obviously being that the market may have one last blow off on the downside that pushes prices to overshot range outside of any reasonable or orderly trend.

that is what my blow off head and shoulders forecast was looking for back in November.  The quick shot down to the 160's might have been that blow off moment, but it was not a trend breaking move which leaves me skeptical and gives me hope that that my forecast is still in tact, especially in light of the last 2 weeks where buyers showed and absolute lack of conviction with prices in the low 200's.  

The basis for my overall analysis, while being highly technical, still relies on one key fundamental.   That is, the market thrives on cheap coins.  What I mean by this is that the market thrives when more people are using the technology in their lives.  There is demand for the technology and it's uses as a trading chip, but that demand is found at much lower pricing where distribution is more fluid and adoption and widespread consumer use of the technology is economically advantageous for the average consumer.

While it is probably true that this is simply an issue of perception, the fact of the matter is, people do not view currency in terms of fractions and decimals.  The whole unit is what matters.  Whether that be a value of 1 penny, 1 dime, 1 dollar, or 1 bitcoin.

Also, I would like to add, it would not shock me in the least to see a move down below 100 to break the trend.  In fact on further inspection, while that 116 level does look nice in my scenario, that drop to 160 at the beginning of the year and the smoothness of the bottom trend line since early 2014 means that in my H&S blow off scenario, we'll need to overshot 116 by some 20% to break that smooth bottom down trend support.  the 80-90 price level is also just as nice of a technical strong point for buyers, since that is the lows post first bubble of april 2013. 

Next two weeks is important.  We'll see how many people like me are hoping to see technical sanity return to this trade

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'll just thro this out there and see if it plays out.  The scenario I found in the charts last Nov. came about a bit quicker than what I was reading.  however, the overall pattern still appears to be remaining in tact. 
> 
> I will be watching carefully these next 2 weeks.  To complete that pattern that I had originally anticipated for the bottom of this relatively long term bear, and see a reversal in the way that would give me confidence that the bottom has truly arrived, 2 things need to happen over the next 2 weeks.
> 
> This coming week I would look for a weekly close below 200.  I would expect somewhat light trading volume in the selling with a volume bar below last weeks green bar.  Overall down week in price action, but on lack of selling conviction. 
> 
> The second week, I would expect to see buyers moving in earnestly to drive the price above the top resist line briefly for a peek at possibly 400, but then ultimately close the week below that 340 level.  I would like to see the volume 2 weeks from now at or just below the volume from this week, but not above.  
> 
> If that scenario plays out, we'll have the left shoulder and head on the weekly chart.  I believe that set up gives us one final blow off on the bottom support levels to see a retest of the 160's and preferably a breach of that level in accordance with a weekly head and shoulders counter trend topping pattern.  
> ...


So you're targeting either low $100s ($118-$133) or about $86?  Those are my targets, too, but I'm not entirely sure if we'll reach them.  I'm interested in what makes you think your volume scheme is going to play out.  Why is it important that the volume be at or just below the green bar from last week?

----------


## newbitech

> So you're targeting either low $100s ($118-$133) or about $86?  Those are my targets, too, but I'm not entirely sure if we'll reach them.  I'm interested in what makes you think your volume scheme is going to play out.  Why is it important that the volume be at or just below the green bar from last week?


I will clarify.

Next week, I am looking for another down week on lighter volume than LAST week green volume bar.  

Two weeks from now I am looking for rising volume, better than both LAST week and what I anticipate for NEXT, but NOT better than the selling volume of THIS week.

Make sense?  It should be looking something like the november green bar where we touched the top resist line in the major down trend channel, weekly price peak around 475. Look at the week around November 9, 2014.  See that volume bar, it is stronger than last week up volume, but weaker than this week down volume.

I put the neck like at 230, the head at 340 (110) for a 120ish target.  Alternatively, it may be neck at 200, head at 320 (120) for a 80ish target. 

I will reiterate, I see a low probability here, but that could increase this coming week.  The more likely scenario I see FWIW, is a continuation of the downward slog in this nice orderly correction and rather than getting H&S with a blow off downward spike, we'll just get a blow off similar to the 160 spike.  

I am just really skeptical that the 160 spike was the marker because it came too fast (and didn't go far enough down) which made it part of the very smooth down sloping support line.  

I think we have to tease that lower bound support and THEN over shot it to see the blow off I am looking for to mark the reversal.  But, eventually, we'll get to that last line of defense in support which is quite notably the range between 80-120.  I just thought that we'd see more conviction from the bulls buy now.

This really signals to me that there are ALOT of people holding most coins on entry well below 80.  So we hold and look for a price level with more "outside" interest to support demand expectations.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I will clarify.
> 
> Next week, I am looking for another down week on lighter volume than LAST week green volume bar.  
> 
> Two weeks from now I am looking for rising volume, better than both LAST week and what I anticipate for NEXT, but NOT better than the selling volume of THIS week.
> 
> Make sense?  It should be looking something like the november green bar where we touched the top resist line in the major down trend channel, weekly price peak around 475. Look at the week around November 9, 2014.  See that volume bar, it is stronger than last week up volume, but weaker than this week down volume.


I see what you're saying.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I will clarify.
> 
> Next week, I am looking for another down week on lighter volume than LAST week green volume bar.  
> 
> Two weeks from now I am looking for rising volume, better than both LAST week and what I anticipate for NEXT, but NOT better than the selling volume of THIS week.
> 
> Make sense?  It should be looking something like the november green bar where we touched the top resist line in the major down trend channel, weekly price peak around 475. Look at the week around November 9, 2014.  See that volume bar, it is stronger than last week up volume, but weaker than this week down volume.
> 
> I put the neck like at 230, the head at 340 (110) for a 120ish target.  Alternatively, it may be neck at 200, head at 320 (120) for a 80ish target. 
> ...


Now I'm a little confused about what kind of H&S you're describing.  You're putting the head at $340 and the neckline at $230?  Is this a H&S or an inverse H&S?  What would that look like?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

2000 BTC order at the top of the books at Finex

----------


## presence

Now 3000 BTC order

----------


## presence

That went up as high as a 5500 BTC wall before it disappeared.  There's clearly plenty of fiat at finex to pump with.

----------


## muh_roads

> 



How did you discover this?  Clearly a lot of other people did many hours ago.

Looks like fake photoshop work...I see no Bitcoin or Litecoin here...
http://www.superbowlcommercial2015.c...5-advertisers/

----------


## newbitech

> Now I'm a little confused about what kind of H&S you're describing.  You're putting the head at $340 and the neckline at $230?  Is this a H&S or an inverse H&S?  What would that look like?



somethig like that

----------


## presence

> How did you discover this?  Clearly a lot of other people did many hours ago.
> 
> Looks like fake photoshop work...I see no Bitcoin or Litecoin here...
> http://www.superbowlcommercial2015.c...5-advertisers/



:trlf:


lol

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> somethig like that


The H&S is almost universally used as a reversal pattern, not as a continuation pattern which you seem to be using it as.

I also noticed that you have next week slated as a down week, and yet the price this current week is right where your left shoulder would be.  

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to criticize or subject you to scrutiny.  Just curious about your ideas.  Thanks.

----------


## muh_roads

You still in fiat, Paul?

I'm mostly in fiat, minus 7% in LTC, which I'm not feeling good about now. Although it looks like it might be consolidating atm.




> :trlf:
> 
> lol


hmmm, I'm getting Whitecoin photoshop flashbacks.  Hopefully you aren't taking advantage of ppl with the extreme LTC calls.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You still in fiat, Paul?
> 
> I'm mostly in fiat, minus 7% in LTC, which I'm not feeling good about now. Although it looks like it might be consolidating atm.
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, I'm getting Whitecoin photoshop flashbacks.  Hopefully you aren't taking advantage of ppl with the extreme LTC calls.


Yes, but I'm regretting it now.  I spotted the double bottom we had earlier and didn't jump in when I should have because I thought there would be a pullback, but there wasn't.  It just kept going.  I should have jumped in as soon as I spotted that double bottom.  If I traded these ideas as well as I spotted them, I'd be doing pretty damn good by now.  Sometimes it's just frustrating how I can see a good trade coming and then take exactly the wrong course of action.  Hopefully I'll get better at that as time goes on.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yes, but I'm regretting it now.  I spotted the double bottom we had earlier and didn't jump in when I should have because I thought there would be a pullback, but there wasn't.  It just kept going.  I should have jumped in as soon as I spotted that double bottom.  If I traded these ideas as well as I spotted them, I'd be doing pretty damn good by now.  Sometimes it's just frustrating how I can see a good trade coming and then take exactly the wrong course of action.  Hopefully I'll get better at that as time goes on.


I don't share newbitech's analysis of $80-120, but I'm not ruling out a slide to $170 this week.  A couple more scalping opportunities on the horizon before a big push to break out of the wedge into the 400's to 500's. (when drawing a line thru all of the geometry)

Following descending triangles, the dead cat seems to be coming to an end with his bouncing at the bottom of the steps.  This definitely feels like the push & pull of a consolidation phase.  Another month to go, IMO.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't share newbitech's analysis of $80-120, but I'm not ruling out a slide to $170 this week.  A couple more scalping opportunities on the horizon before a big push to break out of the wedge into the 400's to 500's. (when drawing a line thru all of the geometry)
> 
> Following descending triangles, the dead cat seems to be coming to an end with his bouncing at the bottom of the steps.  This definitely feels like the push & pull of a consolidation phase.  Another month to go, IMO.


I know, but none of that is certain.  This trade was a very good bet and I missed it due to my own greed and laziness.  Now I can't be certain until I spot another good trade.  Oh, well.  Better luck next time, I guess.

----------


## muh_roads

> I know, but none of that is certain.  This trade was a very good bet and I missed it due to my own greed and laziness.  Now I can't be certain until I spot another good trade.  Oh, well.  Better luck next time, I guess.


Yeah, I'm annoyed I $#@!ed up the last run from 160-300.  It was really the only time I've screwed up since October when I felt I was getting the hang of this.

It seems to ignore the very upper and very bottom fib lines I've noticed.  It really is just all about moving in elliot waves tho.  The larger A-B-C-D-E I feel I'm pretty good at catching.  It's the smaller 1-2-3-4-5 waves in between each letter that I am not good at.  You seem to have a much better handle on those than I do.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah, I'm annoyed I $#@!ed up the last run from 160-300.  It was really the only time I've screwed up since October when I felt I was getting the hang of this.
> 
> It seems to ignore the very upper and very bottom fib lines I've noticed.  It really is just all about moving in elliot waves tho.  The larger A-B-C-D-E I feel I'm pretty good at catching.  It's the smaller 1-2-3-4-5 waves in between each letter that I am not good at.  You seem to have a much better handle on those than I do.


I just take a different approach.  I don't use EWs as a predictive tool.  I think they're interesting, but you can usually spot good moves just by looking for patterns that have a high probability of going one way.

----------


## presence



----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Here we go boys.  Artificial break down below $224 support, with full retrace.  Consolidating before moving sharply.  Bottom in.


??

----------


## newbitech

> The H&S is almost universally used as a reversal pattern, not as a continuation pattern which you seem to be using it as.
> 
> I also noticed that you have next week slated as a down week, and yet the price this current week is right where your left shoulder would be.  
> 
> Keep in mind, I'm not trying to criticize or subject you to scrutiny.  Just curious about your ideas.  Thanks.


This is a reversal pattern, its the bottom of the bear and marks the start of the cyclical bull 

Yes, this weak opened right where i show the neck line.  the left shoulder is last week.  We may have a daily close above the neck line, but for the week I expect a red candle on light volume.  this is why the neck is at 220 in my main forecast that keeps the pattern I observed in Nov. in tact. 

The reason alternatively we may go to 200 as the neck in my mind, is that next week we may well see another small down candle start at this week close range bound 200-220.  

I still give the whole thing a low probability.  Primarily I am looking for low trade volume.  I think regardless of what happens with price, if trade volume spike up either way my scenario is blown.  this is because of increasing volatility, which would mean larger daily price swings, crushing the head and shoulders pattern. 

At that point, I would have to either assume the 160 was the blow off and start stacking for the run to 800, or catch a falling knife.  Personally I'd rather trade an orderly market with more predictable pattern, but who wouldn't.  Unfortunately, my idea scenario has a low probability.  I recognize that and it could fall apart in the next hour.

I still see major support at 80-120, after retrace/retest support at 160, and light resistance from 160-360.  The bet is, are we going to see 80 before we see 360?  

50/50 right now IMO.

----------


## newbitech

> ??






> Here we go boys. Artificial break down below $224 support, with full retrace. Consolidating before moving sharply. Bottom in.


nice pennant forming on the 1 hr.  If confirmed I will make my call a 0% probability.

----------


## newbitech

btw, can almost make out head and shoulders in the 4h.  shoulders are kinda weak but the shape is there and its symmetrical time wise.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> This is a reversal pattern, its the bottom of the bear and marks the start of the cyclical bull


But then your H&S is upside down...

An inverse H&S is bullish, not a regular H&S.




> Yes, this weak opened right where i show the neck line.  the left shoulder is last week.  We may have a daily close above the neck line, but for the week I expect a red candle on light volume.  this is why the neck is at 220 in my main forecast that keeps the pattern I observed in Nov. in tact. 
> 
> The reason alternatively we may go to 200 as the neck in my mind, is that next week we may well see another small down candle start at this week close range bound 200-220.  
> 
> I still give the whole thing a low probability.  Primarily I am looking for low trade volume.  I think regardless of what happens with price, if trade volume spike up either way my scenario is blown.  this is because of increasing volatility, which would mean larger daily price swings, crushing the head and shoulders pattern. 
> 
> At that point, I would have to either assume the 160 was the blow off and start stacking for the run to 800, or catch a falling knife.  Personally I'd rather trade an orderly market with more predictable pattern, but who wouldn't.  Unfortunately, my idea scenario has a low probability.  I recognize that and it could fall apart in the next hour.
> 
> I still see major support at 80-120, after retrace/retest support at 160, and light resistance from 160-360.  The bet is, are we going to see 80 before we see 360?  
> ...


Yes, that's an interesting take on it.  I think we're in at least a local bull right now, so I'm back in.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

With BTC dropping again lets see if that pushes LTC/BTC back up.  Interesting inverse relationship, sometimes.

edit: BTW, congrats on hitting page 100.

----------


## newbitech

> But then your H&S is upside down...
> 
> An inverse H&S is bullish, not a regular H&S.
> 
> Yes, that's an interesting take on it.  I think we're in at least a local bull right now, so I'm back in.


So a head and shoulders can be a continuation, but I admit it can be debated on whether or not it's "classical".  Perhaps non-traditional, but the shape and the results would not be unprecedented, and certainly the H&S continuation is accepted and taught in chart school.  

Without getting into a debate on the descriptive words used to describe that patterns, I was looking for an obvious pattern at the bottom that would make sense on the chart I was looking at back in Nov.  My take on a head and shoulders is that it is a reliable pattern that can appear anywhere on a chart.  I believe in this case that pattern is going to appear more as an instigator of the blow off low I am hoping for marking the end of the cyclical bear.  So while what I am looking at might not be traditional reversal (since you'd rightly expect to see an inverse H&S based on popular descriptions of the pattern) it would come at a point in the chart where reversal is expected.  

So hopefully if the pattern does eventually emerge and play out, the confirmation of the H&S as a continuation will also be the blow off low that markets the foundation for the start of a new cyclical bull rally and the counter trend breaks out of the wedge.




Continuation Head and Shoulders (Regular head and shoulders at the bottom of a downtrend, reverse head and shoulders at the top of an uptrend)  http://peterlbrandt.com/do-continuation-head-and-shoulders-patterns-really-exist/

examples

S&P 500 Breaks Out of a Head & Shoulders Continuation Pattern (Feb. 2014)


http://www.kitco.com/ind/Maund/20120402A.html

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So a head and shoulders can be a continuation, but I admit it can be debated on whether or not it's "classical".  Perhaps non-traditional, but the shape and the results would not be unprecedented, and certainly the H&S continuation is accepted and taught in chart school.  
> 
> Without getting into a debate on the descriptive words used to describe that patterns, I was looking for an obvious pattern at the bottom that would make sense on the chart I was looking at back in Nov.  My take on a head and shoulders is that it is a reliable pattern that can appear anywhere on a chart.  I believe in this case that pattern is going to appear more as an instigator of the blow off low I am hoping for marking the end of the cyclical bear.  So while what I am looking at might not be traditional reversal (since you'd rightly expect to see an inverse H&S based on popular descriptions of the pattern) it would come at a point in the chart where reversal is expected.  
> 
> So hopefully if the pattern does eventually emerge and play out, the confirmation of the H&S as a continuation will also be the blow off low that markets the foundation for the start of a new cyclical bull rally and the counter trend breaks out of the wedge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fine.  I don't normally use H&S as a continuation, but I'll admit they probably do exist.  However, I was just a little confused because you had said it would be a reversal, and using a traditional reversal pattern as a continuation pattern to mark the beginning of a reversal is... unusual, and a bit confusing.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> With BTC dropping again lets see if that pushes LTC/BTC back up.  Interesting inverse relationship, sometimes.
> 
> edit: BTW, congrats on hitting page 100.


You must be using the 30 posts per page setting, because I use 40 and it says we're still on page 75 for me.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> You must be using the 30 posts per page setting, because I use 40 and it says we're still on page 75 for me.


Yeah, just the default, whatever that is.

You still in BTC?  Nice pump today that you got to ride up.




> 


I have a confused look on my face when I see this.  What is the positive take away from this? You draw the thick orange?

Also, do you think now is the time to get back into BTC?  I see you haven't posted any honey badger recently.

----------


## presence

> I have a confused look on my face when I see this.  What is the positive take away from this? You draw the thick orange?
> 
> Also, do you think now is the time to get back into BTC?  I see you haven't posted any honey badger recently.



The thick orange is SMA30 1 day candles.   That's the one I've been waiting for.    It has for the most part been below the thick white line since Feb 2014.

LTC is breaking away from BTC

Yes I think this is a bullish sign for both.

Could btc go lower?  sure maybe to 200.  But I could also see consolidation here over next 36 hours to 232 btce price; high margin 239 low margin 226.    Then another break bull could well be in our future come the 4th.

Honeybadger is still in fiat.

This next trade is likely "Honey" and as I've said its a transition from "red dragon long" to "cat bounce" long... so its kind of a lagging trade.

The last "honey" on the chart bought back in at effectively the price it sold for.   In this case that would mean the mid to high 240's would be when Honey Badger will be convinced the chart is bullish again. 

Personally I'm already convinced.  BTC = Bulls on parade.  LTC = epichulkdonghellamoon.

----------


## muh_roads

> The thick orange is SMA30 1 day candles.   That's the one I've been waiting for.    It has for the most part been below the thick white line since Feb 2014.
> 
> LTC is breaking away from BTC
> 
> Yes I think this is a bullish sign for both.
> 
> Could btc go lower?  sure maybe to 200.  But I could also see consolidation here over next 36 hours to 232 btce price; high margin 239 low margin 226.    Then another break bull could well be in our future come the 4th.
> 
> Honeybadger is still in fiat.
> ...


If it mimics the previous, then it only goes up a little bit.

What are your thoughts on Alcindor?  He sees the LTC price doubling soon (in USD) but then hitting resistance.  Whenever wave 4 completes is when wave 5 up begins.

https://www.tradingview.com/x/maqV4kQJ/

BTC would need to double in price in USD terms, otherwise LTC/BTC will begin to fall. But I suppose you can count on BTC pouring into LTC also.  I'm looking at too many charts.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah, just the default, whatever that is.
> 
> You still in BTC?  Nice pump today that you got to ride up.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a confused look on my face when I see this.  What is the positive take away from this? You draw the thick orange?
> 
> Also, do you think now is the time to get back into BTC?  I see you haven't posted any honey badger recently.


Yup.  I'll be holding for a while longer.  We may see a climb into the $400s or somewhere in the $300s and we may crash down again, but there has to be a reversal at some point.  No trend lasts forever, and the one we've been under for well over a year now is getting very old and its time is expiring.  

As for now, I'm watching carefully for another run-up like we saw recently on high volume which marks a point at which the market has stretched itself beyond its means and there are no more buyers or sellers left.  That's how you can tell just by volume when is the best time to buy/sell, and you can make a lot of money if you don't worry about anything else and just look for those points at which a lot of volume pushes the price one way very fast.

You'll notice we haven't had a lot of volume yet even though the price has been going up, and that tells me the price is still well within a reasonable range and hasn't overstretched itself yet, so the trend is still intact.  If we were going to have a bubble, I would expect to see a helluva lot of volume.  coming in as we started taking off.

----------


## presence

*Dread Pirate Roberts "Hell's Angels Assassination Transcript"*

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


I'm not convinced.  Fractals aren't very reliable.  This could've easily been a pump.

----------


## amonasro

> Yup.  I'll be holding for a while longer.  We may see a climb into the $400s or somewhere in the $300s and we may crash down again, but there has to be a reversal at some point.  No trend lasts forever, and the one we've been under for well over a year now is getting very old and its time is expiring.  
> 
> As for now, I'm watching carefully for another run-up like we saw recently on high volume which marks a point at which the market has stretched itself beyond its means and there are no more buyers or sellers left.  That's how you can tell just by volume when is the best time to buy/sell, and you can make a lot of money if you don't worry about anything else and just look for those points at which a lot of volume pushes the price one way very fast.
> 
> You'll notice we haven't had a lot of volume yet even though the price has been going up, and that tells me the price is still well within a reasonable range and hasn't overstretched itself yet, so the trend is still intact.  If we were going to have a bubble, I would expect to see a helluva lot of volume.  coming in as we started taking off.


I'm in agreement, we're seeing a slow bleed of available supply at these levels. And that's just what the whales want, if they're bullish, so holders don't dump into a rally making them more cost effective.

What I was surprised about was the decisive drop below $300. It just goes to show that the market makers will use any bit of information to profit and after Gox, it was kind of a no-brainer to shake the market out even further and cause a big panic. Barring a similarly terrible piece of news, I can't see sellers pushing this market down very much further.

Reminds me of a good quote by Tom Williams, a professional London syndicate trader for years...




> *What starts a bull market?* 
> 
> To start the process, an Index [or the stocks it represents] start to fall in price day after day, week after week, punctuated with small up moves with lower tops and lower bottoms as seen in a bear market. There will be a low level reached at some time where weak holders will start to panic (The Herd) and will tend to sell their stock holdings at the same time. This is because they are all being effected by the same psychological pressures and fear even lower prices. These weak holders cannot stand any more losses, and are fearful of even further losses. Fear is intensified as the markets fall because one thing is certain, the news will be bad. As these traders sell, professional money will step in and start buying, because in their view this stock can now be sold at a higher price at a later date. The panicky selling has also given professional money the opportunity to buy very large amounts of stock without putting the price up against their own buying [accumulation]. There is nothing unusual about this, it is the natural instinct of people who all like to buy something on the cheap, that is if they have the money available and can recognise it is bargain day.
> 
> This process is going on all the time, creating either a small move or a large move. Any move that does start is in direct proportion to the amount of shares that have changed hands.
> 
> To create a major bull market you need to see the extremes of this process at work.This is known as a Selling Climax and will mark the low point of the market, while the opposite is a Buying Climax and will mark the high point of a market. The Selling Climax phenomenon occurs when there has been a major transfer of stock from weak holders, that is -traders, who have been locked-in at higher prices suffering the fear and pressure of losses which cannot be tolerated any longer, decide to sell. However, somebody has to be prepared to buy at these times. It is professional money who are the buyers. This gives professional traders, or those traders who are on the right side of the market, whose money is not locked in at higher prices and who are therefore not under pressure from the bear market, the opportunity to buy and to also cover short positions without putting the price up against their own buying. This process is seen on our chart as a wide spread down into fresh low territory, on very high volume, while the market closes in the middle or high. The news will be very bad coming from all quarters which may prevent you from seeing this as a low point in the market. The news has to be bad to shake everybody out!
> 
> You cannot go straight into a bull market from a bear market unless there has been a substantial transfer of stock from weak holders to strong holders. You need to see this transfer in the underlying stocks that make up the Index. If this transfer is not clear you will know well in advance that any up move is liable to fail. In any up move that is liable to fail you will see either a no demand up day/bar [low volume] or excessively high volume up day/bar with no results, that is prices come off the next day, or an up-thrust appears. You do not see this type of action in a true bull market [see up-thrusts]. 
> ...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm in agreement, we're seeing a slow bleed of available supply at these levels. And that's just what the whales want, if they're bullish, so holders don't dump into a rally making them more cost effective.
> 
> What I was surprised about was the decisive drop below $300. It just goes to show that the market makers will use any bit of information to profit and after Gox, it was kind of a no-brainer to shake the market out even further and cause a big panic. Barring a similarly terrible piece of news, I can't see sellers pushing this market down very much further.
> 
> Reminds me of a good quote by Tom Williams, a professional London syndicate trader for years...


Good article.  

By the way, I sold at $238.  Looking at $220 for a possible short.

----------


## muh_roads

> Good article.  
> 
> By the way, I sold at $238.  Looking at $220 for a possible short.


argh, I started supporting...lol

Looking at 220 for re-entry?  You already shorted at 238...confused.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> argh, I started supporting...lol
> 
> Looking at 220 for re-entry?  You already shorted at 238...confused.


No... If $220 breaks, that's when start looking for a shorting opportunity.

----------


## presence

*Introducing Darkleaks: A Blackmarket for Whistleblowers*

----------


## muh_roads

> No... If $220 breaks, that's when start looking for a shorting opportunity.


Ah, yeah I still stick with the old-school meaning of shorting as selling.  I have yet to try finex and making those kinds of bets.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Ah, yeah I still stick with the old-school meaning of shorting as selling.  I have yet to try finex and making those kinds of bets.


Yeah, that's essentially what it is.

----------


## muh_roads

Getting close to $220.  I supported a little higher than what it is now, but only 50%.  So I guess get ready to bail soon and eat the loss?  Part of me just wants to keep that portion in and sleep on it.  Whale Facebook Adam and his whale $#@!ery (I think he is full of it) is making the price a very 50-50 situation right now.

I think I'm going to set buy orders on the way down to 170...maybe 160.  Start at 210?

And look at that, LTC/BTC rising as BTC/USD drops.  It almost never fails...

----------


## presence

*Tradewave partners with Coinsetter to offer 

$500 of free account credit to all live traders*

----------


## presence

LTCBTC SMA32 Day has now crossed to positive

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Doesn't seem like the verdicts had any effect on the markets today. The writing was probably already on the wall.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Looks like the tumbling has begun after all. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole we'll go.

----------


## presence

ltcbtc 1 day SMA 15 through SMA 33 all now have positive slope:

----------


## muh_roads

> Looks like the tumbling has begun after all. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole we'll go.


Did you sell?  Sounds like you keep adding to your position.

----------


## muh_roads

> *Tradewave partners with Coinsetter to offer 
> 
> $500 of free account credit to all live traders*


I need to try this.

They take the $500 back at the end of the 30 days.  If you lose it all they don't care.  If you make a profit you keep the profit after subtracting $500.

I think it is Barry Silbert who is lending the $500.  Every single person on RPF should be trying this.  No loss risk.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Did you sell?  Sounds like you keep adding to your position.


I hold and add accordingly. I've had plenty of time to get mentally adjusted to the price swings, especially after the last year. Sleeping my bitcoin money in fiat isn't something that sits well with me. Not that I take solace in the bear market, I just feel annoyance unlike others who are in despair mode.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I need to try this.
> 
> They take the $500 back at the end of the 30 days.  If you lose it all they don't care.  If you make a profit you keep the profit after subtracting $500.
> 
> I think it is Barry Silbert who is lending the $500.  Every single person on RPF should be trying this.  No loss risk.


I looked into this and they want all your personal details including SSN which seems a little steep for the $$ I might be lucky enough to snag on the way out.

----------


## muh_roads

> I looked into this and they want all your personal details including SSN which seems a little steep for the $$ I might be lucky enough to snag on the way out.


Yeah coinsetter is located in NYC so it makes sense.  I think it's fine if you know not to mix their coins with yours and properly use coincontrol (custom change address on blockchain.info - always privately label your addresses).

I've been paying my taxes since 2012 so I'm not worried about giving up personal info.  I knew I was screwed ever since BFL was subpoena'd, which usually involves having access to all client info as well.

I'm gonna try it if pres' bot works on coinsetter...?  pres?

----------


## amonasro

> Looks like the tumbling has begun after all. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole we'll go.


The declining sell volume on the downtrend from $315 is telling. Bears are going to have to cough up a lot of coins to push us very much lower. The high volume area ~$200 during the selloff is going to be a huge support point imo.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Derivatives Exchanges Look to Add Liquidity to the Bitcoin Market
http://www.institutionalinvestor.com...l#.VNPsMmjF-s-
Pretty interesting article and I would've made another thread out of it but I couldn't copy and past anything from it for some reason. It's fairly long but I'm sure yall will find some value in it.

----------


## presence

> I'm gonna try it if pres' bot works on coinsetter...?  pres?


Yes you can run freeware HB50X in the program.

You could also just rig up a quick buy and hold bot and run like that.

----------


## presence

Be advised:

I'm currently having issues w/ HB2269X running on the coinsetter exchange due to lack of adequate warmup (backtest) data.

----------


## presence

Overnight SMA34 Day on the ltcbtc pair also crossed over to having positive slope.  It joins SMA 15 through 33 all pointing uphill.

This is unprecedented in all of 2014.






Note here where there was a brief moment of positive slope around Dec 10th... the slope of each MA went positive for about 4 hours then returned negative in procession.   Currently, every SMA from 15 to 34 has gone positive and STAYED positive as the others cross:

----------


## Dianne

> Overnight SMA34 Day on the ltcbtc pair also crossed over to having positive slope.  It joins SMA 15 through 33 all pointing uphill.
> 
> This is unprecedented in all of 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note here where there was a brief moment of positive slope around Dec 10th... the slope of each MA went positive for about 4 hours then returned negative in procession.   Currently, every SMA from 15 to 34 has gone positive and STAYED positive as the others cross:


Thanks for the info.   I'm still "all in" LTC.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Not to scare anyone, but my forecast is a bit bearish.  We may see a lower low yet, but that doesn't mean it won't rebound.  The bear market can't go on forever.

----------


## muh_roads

> Not to scare anyone, but my forecast is a bit bearish.  We may see a lower low yet, but that doesn't mean it won't rebound.  The bear market can't go on forever.


Got a chart?

----------


## dannno

> Got a chart?


That, and please photoshop a picture referencing some obscure technical analysis reference into the chart as well.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> That, and please photoshop a picture referencing some obscure technical analysis reference into the chart as well.


Great.  Another fan.

----------


## dannno

> Great.  Another fan.


You are Presence??

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You are Presence??


muh-roads was replying to me, not Presence.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Here's the chart.  I'm honestly not sure now, though.  I may be assuming too much.  Oh, well, here it is anyway:



By the way, I post all of my charts on my Twitter account if you use Twitter.  The link is in my sig.

----------


## presence

35 Day SMA on ltcbtc has now crossed positive as well.  Every 1 day SMA from SMA15day to SMA35day now has positive, accelerating slope:

----------


## presence

USD/CNH
LTC/CNH
BTC/CNH

all crashed hard yesterday at BTCe exchange... and they're still down.

You could buy $250k worth of USD LTC and BTC right now at 25% discount if you could get CNH onto BTCe exchange. 

USDCNH currently trading at 3.8  (it only cost 3.8 CNH for a dollar at btce)

External market value is 6.25 (it cost 6.25 CNH for a dollar anywhere else in the world)


messages I posted in chinese trollbox three days ago are still there; the chinese market is dead at btce

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113440...formed-in-2014

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> 


Is that a sign ltc/btc will break out soon?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

We'll find out in the next few days, but I'm sad to say that bitcoin is looking pretty bearish for now:



https://www.tradingview.com/v/GrWYXbgz/

----------


## presence

ltcbtc SMA36day has now joined SMA25day through SMA35day in pointing to the moon:




Here's the code I'm using btw:



```
# litepresence
# Slope of Simple Moving Averges

TIMEPERIODS = [25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37]
SLOPE_OFFSET = -2
PRICE_OFFSET = 1.5
PAIR = info.primary_pair
INTERVAL = 86400 # 86400 = 1 day


def initialize():

    storage.z = storage.get('z', 0)


def ma1d(timeperiod):

    z = 1
    interval = INTERVAL
    if INTERVAL == 86400:
        interval = 43200
        z = 2
    sma = data(interval=interval)[PAIR].ma(timeperiod*z)
    return sma

    
def sma_slope(current, previous):
    
    slope_list = []
    z = 0
    while z < len(current):
        slope = 'slope'+str(z)  
        storage[slope] = current[z] - previous[z]
        slope_list.append(storage[slope])
        z+=1
    return slope_list

    
def moving_averages(period):
    
    ma_list = []
    for i in period:
        ma = 'ma'+str(i)
        storage[ma] = ma1d(i)
        ma_list.append(storage[ma])
    return ma_list    

    
def tick():
    
    z =    moving_averages(TIMEPERIODS)
    if info.tick == 0: 
        storage.z = z
    slope = sma_slope(z, storage.z)    
    if info.tick > 75:
        plot('zero', 0, secondary = True)        
        length = len(z)    
        while length > 0:
            plot('SMA'+str(TIMEPERIODS[length-1]), z[length-1])
            plot('slope'+str(TIMEPERIODS[length-1]), slope[length-1], 
              secondary=True)
            length-=1
    if info.tick == 75:
        slope_offset = max(abs(max(slope)), abs(min(slope)))
        price_offset = max(abs(max(z)), abs(min(z)))
        slope_offset = Decimal(SLOPE_OFFSET)*slope_offset
        price_offset = Decimal(PRICE_OFFSET)*price_offset
        plot('z', price_offset)
        plot('slope', slope_offset, secondary=True)
    storage.z = z   
    
    plot('high', data[PAIR].high)
    plot('low', data[PAIR].low)
```

You can run that on tradewave.net



SMA37 should cross over within a few hours.

----------


## Dianne

> We'll find out in the next few days, but I'm sad to say that bitcoin is looking pretty bearish for now:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/GrWYXbgz/


Well we have a couple of peeps pointing to sub $200. on this board.    Maybe they are correct.

----------


## amonasro

I'm actually bullish. Market can't sell off below $210, order books stacking up underneath the price @ Finex nicely.

----------


## presence

> I'm actually bullish. Market can't sell off below $210, order books stacking up underneath the price @ Finex nicely.


here's SMA20day through SMA30day slope analysis for BTCUSD




The signal is certainly there, but more muddled than the LTCBTC.  

When SMA20slope (BLUE) breaks AGAIN from the pack up or down that would be a solid market indication.


Here's LTCUSD showing the second tier bullish breakout  on SMA20:

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm actually bullish. Market can't sell off below $210, order books stacking up underneath the price @ Finex nicely.


When the market keeps bumping support like that, it usually means it's about to break through.  As pres said, it kind of looks like a double bottom, but it would be an ugly one since the 2nd bottom is lower than the 1st one.  That is unusual for double bottoms.  We keep making lower highs and if we cross $220 again, that will further validate my idea.  For a double bottom to confirm, it would have to break above $240 at least, but I don't see that happening.

Not sure how I feel about this.  Part of me says, for the sake of bitcoin, I hope you're right.  The other part says cheap coinz!

----------


## presence

> it would be an ugly one since the 2nd bottom is lower than the 1st one.  That is unusual for double bottoms





> *What's Obvious Is Not Often Right* 
> Most traders  are inclined to place a stop right at the bottom of a double bottom or  top of the double top. The conventional wisdom says that once the  pattern is broken, the trader should get out. But conventional wisdom is  often wrong. 
>  Leaving the trade early may seem prudent and logical, but markets are rarely that straightforward. Many retail traders play double tops/bottoms, and, knowing this, dealers and institutional traders love to exploit the retail traders' behavior 
> of exiting early, forcing the weak hands  out of the trade before price changes direction. The net effect is a  series of frustrating stops out of positions that often would have  turned out to be successful trades.


http://www.investopedia.com/articles.../05/032805.asp

see adam and eve table here:

http://thepatternsite.com/dbsetup.html

----------


## amonasro

I'll add to your bullish sentiment, Pres. I've been trading Wyckoff accumulation/distribution setups with great results. Here's an example. Notice how the stock bottoms out on relatively low volume as supply dries up. Each shakeout is on lighter volume as strong hands accumulate. Eventually the strong hands hold all of the cards and there's nowhere to go but up. The markup phase begins with a SOS (sign of strength) and a rally results that pushes out of the trading range.

More info here: http://www.informedtrades.com/attach...ding-range-pdf

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> http://www.investopedia.com/articles.../05/032805.asp
> 
> see adam and eve table here:
> 
> http://thepatternsite.com/dbsetup.html


That's very true of Wall Street, but not necessarily for bitcoin since there are a lot less institutional influences from high-frequency computer algorithms and things like that.  That's why many people say it's actually easier to trade bitcoin than it is for other arguments where there are many more sophisticated traders and trading techniques involved.

----------


## muh_roads

Looks like a triple bottom is about to happen.  Broke thru 220 again.  I'm 50-50 right now.




> That's very true of Wall Street, but not necessarily for bitcoin since there are a lot less institutional influences from high-frequency computer algorithms and things like that. That's why many people say it's actually easier to trade bitcoin than it is for other arguments where there are many more sophisticated traders and trading techniques involved.


Lets enjoy it while we can.  ETF's instruments are coming soon which could cause things to stabilize for more boredom.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Looks like a triple bottom is about to happen.  Broke thru 220 again.  I'm 50-50 right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets enjoy it while we can.  ETF's instruments are coming soon which could cause things to stabilize for more boredom.


It's not a triple bottom until it breaks above $240.  Until then, still very bearish.

----------


## presence

> still very bearish


I'm betting against you my friend, we shall see.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm betting against you my friend, we shall see.


Indeed we shall.  If we break above $240, then I'll go all in.

----------


## presence

SMA37day LTCBTC crosses over to positive slope this morning joining SMA20day through SMA36 day all pointing up hill.  SMA20,21,22 shorter averages rising fastest indicates continuation of the bullish tendency:

----------


## presence

PPC just broke out on a whale pump at btce;  

price tripled from 30c to 94 cents in about 15 minutes.   shaking out now.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Looks like namecoin saw some action too.

----------


## muh_roads

Somebody bought 30,000 LTC or so.  Giant doji.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Somebody bought 30,000 LTC or so.  Giant doji.


I opened up the one minute chart to see what happened and the red bar came first which I didn't understand.

----------


## muh_roads

> I opened up the one minute chart to see what happened and the red bar came first which I didn't understand.


I guess that is considered closing red.  But it doesn't make sense when the previous tick was lower.

Anywho, looks like it double-topped.  Whales trying to scare ppl out?

----------


## muh_roads

> We'll find out in the next few days, but I'm sad to say that bitcoin is looking pretty bearish for now:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/GrWYXbgz/


Going back to 120-150 and staying there would be like rewinding the clock to 2013 and acting as if the bubble never happened.

----------


## presence

> I guess that is considered closing red.  But it doesn't make sense when the previous tick was lower.


Red simply means the candle closed lower than it opened.  

That 1m candle opened with a single buy spanning 00807(open) through 00825(high) and closed at 00798 after touching back briefly to 00793(low).

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Going back to 120-150 and staying there would be like rewinding the clock to 2013 and acting as if the bubble never happened.


Yup, and it may go lower still.  Like I said before, it has to end sometime, but maybe not yet.  The thing is, we've broken every meaningful long-term trendline, so now it's just a matter of waiting for the market to enter "despair" before finally reversing because there are no more sellers left.  Are we there yet?  Maybe not, but I think we're close.  Just have to take it as it comes and play the swings.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yup, and it may go lower still.  Like I said before, it has to end sometime, but maybe not yet.  The thing is, we've broken every meaningful long-term trendline, so now it's just a matter of waiting for the market to enter "despair" before finally reversing because there are no more sellers left.  Are we there yet?  Maybe not, but I think we're close.  Just have to take it as it comes and play the swings.


Is TG1 your buy-back ($175)? if it breaks thru then stop loss and wait for TG2...etc?

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Is TG1 your buy-back ($175)? if it breaks thru then stop loss and wait for TG2...etc?


$170 is about my close short target.  I will wait until then to see if I want to buy back, but if a new low is made beyond $166 (Bitfinex) then I will not be buying and may resume shorting.

For now, I'm looking at $226 and $210.  If it's going to be bearish, then it should not go above $226 again.

----------


## muh_roads

> 


I'll admit I still don't have the best trained eye for charting, but I have to be honest, this is starting to feel like damage control.  You were so loud about buying that it probably contributed to that spike to 0089 and we've been in the $#@! ever since.

If BTC goes up LTC/BTC will go down even further.  I'd really advise not going all in.

I don't want to sound ungrateful.  I'm glad you're following LTC though.  Someone needs to.  Although I think it is a mistake to ignore Darkcoin & Ripple.  All three are going to be fighting for #2 IMO. And Litecoin is the least unique of them all.  Out of any of those Darkcoin seems like the most worthy to support since all the Anonymous $#@!coin tech developed in 2014 seems to be coalescing behind it now. It also has the support of one or two darkweb markets out there.

----------


## muh_roads

> $170 is about my close short target.  I will wait until then to see if I want to buy back, but if a new low is made beyond $166 (Bitfinex) then I will not be buying and may resume shorting.
> 
> For now, I'm looking at $226 and $210.  If it's going to be bearish, then it should not go above $226 again.


Looks like 226 might be tested today.  The MACD on the 1H & 4H looks...promising...I guess?

----------


## presence

> I have to be honest, this is starting to feel like damage control.  You were so loud about buying that it probably contributed to that spike to 0089 and we've been in the $#@! ever since.


0089 was well within the prevailing price channel at the time:



Every day that SMA7day stays above SMA30day the LTCBTC bull pattern becomes more entrenched regardless of hourly price action. 




> If BTC goes up LTC/BTC will go down even further.  I'd really advise not going all in.


If BTC goes up its breaking out of the year long bear market channel; "Red Dragon" criteria will be broken.  This would represent a shift to Bitcoin BULL market; the beginning of Bitcoin BULL is when LTCBTC historically breaks out BULL as well. 




> I'm glad you're following LTC though.  Someone needs to. Although I think it is a mistake to ignore Darkcoin & Ripple. All three are going to be fighting for #2 IMO. And Litecoin is the least unique of them all.  Out of any of those Darkcoin seems like the most worthy to support since all the Anonymous $#@!coin tech developed in 2014 seems to be coalescing behind it now.


I like ripple less than I like doge on philosophical grounds xD

Darkcoin on the other hand I do respect, and I agree with you on its merits.  I have been keeping an eye on it. Specifically I like how it can act as a simple tumbler to move Bitcoin... Buy DRK move DRK... trade back to BTC for relative price stability.  

Here it is shown w/ SMA30day



Note the price action in the days following SMA30day shifting to positive slope in the past 2 weeks.

I think its a great coin... but I'm so burned on losing my bank at mintpal I can't fathom involving myself outside of the big exchanges in the foreseeable future.


Here's LTCBTC same 1 day candles... w/ SMA30day and SMA7day; note the *accelerating* positive slope of SMA30day at the tip, and the similarity it has to the curvature of SMA30day for DRKBTC just before DRK broke out 2 days ago:




If SMA7day crosses back under SMA30day before a healthy 10X event; I'll admit defeat.  Until then, yes, I'm all in LTC.


~~~ ~~ ~ @<(^)>@ ~ ~~ ~~~

----------


## muh_roads

Did you lose a lot at Mintpal?  I'm sorry to hear that.  Now your hiatus last year makes more sense.

Yeah I'm not nuts about supporting Ripple.  But I have no problem with dumping on it for more BTC.  :P

----------


## Dianne

> I'll admit I still don't have the best trained eye for charting, but I have to be honest, this is starting to feel like damage control.  You were so loud about buying that it probably contributed to that spike to 0089 and we've been in the $#@! ever since.
> 
> If BTC goes up LTC/BTC will go down even further.  I'd really advise not going all in.
> 
> I don't want to sound ungrateful.  I'm glad you're following LTC though.  Someone needs to.  Although I think it is a mistake to ignore Darkcoin & Ripple.  All three are going to be fighting for #2 IMO. And Litecoin is the least unique of them all.  Out of any of those Darkcoin seems like the most worthy to support since all the Anonymous $#@!coin tech developed in 2014 seems to be coalescing behind it now. It also has the support of one or two darkweb markets out there.


I've almost given up on the ltc/btc moon so jumping back and forth from ltc to CNH on btc-e.     I'm not sure what I am doing, but picking up around 30 LTC per day doing it,  which for me is far better than my past history of losing coins.      I'm buying around 7.75 and selling around 8.37 .

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've almost given up on the ltc/btc moon so jumping back and forth from ltc to CNH on btc-e.     I'm not sure what I am doing, but picking up around 30 LTC per day doing it,  which for me is far better than my past history of losing coins.      I'm buying around 7.75 and selling around 8.37 .


Nice to see you're having some success.  I wait for the bigger moves, myself, but if you're making money, more power to ya.  Just don't get in over your head.  

Remember, there are 3 phases to any market: trend, reversal, consolidation.  I try to wait out the consolidations and just focus on the trends and reversals.

----------


## muh_roads

> I've almost given up on the ltc/btc moon so jumping back and forth from ltc to CNH on btc-e.     *I'm not sure what I am doing*, but picking up around 30 LTC per day doing it,  which for me is far better than my past history of losing coins.      I'm buying around 7.75 and selling around 8.37 .


lol



Making money is making money.  Glad you found something that is working out.  

Are you watching the MACD on the 15m and playing the humps?

----------


## Dianne

> Nice to see you're having some success.  I wait for the bigger moves, myself, but if you're making money, more power to ya.  Just don't get in over your head.  
> 
> Remember, there are 3 phases to any market: trend, reversal, consolidation.  I try to wait out the consolidations and just focus on the trends and reversals.


I really don't understand any of that stuff.    I assume trend means going up or going down from the red or green candles?     Reversal is what happens when I buy btc or ltc in an upswing and it tanks within minutes of my buying.      

Is there an easily understood  "investing in btc for dummies" website or book out there?

----------


## Dianne

> lol
> 
> 
> 
> Making money is making money.  Glad you found something that is working out.  
> 
> *Are you watching the MACD on the 15m and playing the humps?*




lolol.... no.     I keep reading stuff about MACD in this thread but the results never seem to be as predicted.     I'm still "all in" on LTC but jumping back and forth to CNH waiting for the big ltc/btc ship to come in lolol....    I am beginning to think the ship sunk.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I really don't understand any of that stuff.    I assume trend means going up or going down from the red or green candles?     Reversal is what happens when I buy btc or ltc in an upswing and it tanks within minutes of my buying.      
> 
> Is there an easily understood  "investing in btc for dummies" website or book out there?


The guy I learned from recommended these books.  I haven't actually read any of them, but I think they will probably help you understand why the market seems to be working against you.  It happens for a reason.  

"Trading in the Zone" ~Mark Douglas
"The Mental Game of Poker" ~Jared Tendler

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Here's an idea I found really intriguing that I think may play out if we make a run at $160 again.  Note that this bubble appears very similar to the one back in 2011, except on a much larger time scale.

----------


## muh_roads

pres,

I just made the connection between Mellon Bank and Ripple.  There are rumors they have centralized nodes monitoring their decentralized blockchain with "Coin Validation" technology.  The son is heir to the Mellon Bank fortune that manages $27 trillion with a T.  He wanted to start a company called Coin Validation that wanted to paint BTC into two colors, black and white.  White being verified. Black having been discovered to be connected to the dark web.  Which needs a White cleansing to be re-issued to you.

He has a major seat at the Ripple table.

Man, AVOID Ripple. lol

----------


## muh_roads

> Here's an idea I found really intriguing that I think may play out if we make a run at $160 again.  Note that this bubble appears very similar to the one back in 2011, except on a much larger time scale.


I almost bought at that price bottom.  I think it was $2.50 when I first deposited a fraction of a coin (12 cents worth I think).  I remember playing with my nVidia card trying to mine BTC in Nov. 2011.  But I waited a year to actually get in.  Oops.

If that chart is extrapolated out and overlay on top of the current situation, are we now talking somewhere between 80 to 120 if 120 to 150 is breached as our bottoms?

I'd still like to think there is going to be one more whale pamp up to $300 before that is attempted.  If fat Adam GuerGarbage's group on Twitter...or any group...is planning a big pump they need to make more waves (accumulation) before they do it I'd think...

One thing I am noticing.  OKCoin is losing control.  The other exchanges would always follow in their foot steps.  But Bitfinex seems to be taking the reigns now...at least sometimes.

----------


## presence

> Did you lose a lot at Mintpal?  I'm sorry to hear that.  *Now your hiatus last year makes more sense*


I had a little over 90% of my holdings at mintpal when they went offline.

I had great faith in mintpaljay and mintpaljason, had many conversations w/ them in freenode... I thought all was cool.  Then they sold out to that alex green guy...  I really wasn't aware of it until it was too late.

I got destroyed; I thought about walking away from crypto... one of the things that brought me back was you guys keeping this thread alive in my absence.

----------


## presence

> White being verified. Black having been discovered to be connected to the dark web.


lol I wish we could do that with coins taken by fed seizures.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I had a little over 90% of my holdings at mintpal when they went offline.
> 
> I had great faith in mintpaljay and mintpaljason, had many conversations w/ them in freenode... I thought all was cool.  Then they sold out to that alex green guy...  I really wasn't aware of it until it was too late.
> 
> I got destroyed; I thought about walking away from crypto... one of the things that brought me back was you guys keeping this thread alive in my absence.


Wow, I had no idea.  I know the feeling.  Hang in there, man.

----------


## presence

> Wow, I had no idea.  I know the feeling.  Hang in there, man.


Its all good.  

I was kinda quiet because I was half pissed / half ashamed.

I've paid myself back in cash for everything originally invested a long time ago.  Plus I got this badass computer from ZeMan beyond that; so its not like I've been hurt by crypto. 

Since I started Honey Badger sales at the new year I'm about 25% back from where I was at my height.   

I'm hoping my latest foray into LTC pushes me back to where I was in October.  I have a 4 trade 30 day plan for LTC; then exit.  


After that I'm putting my funds 100% on honeybadger and going back to coding for a while.  I have enough of OPM behind honeybadger that soon I'll need to start thinking about how exactly we'll all enter and exit smoothly without disturbing the market; iceberg orders, etc.

----------


## Dianne

> The guy I learned from recommended these books.  I haven't actually read any of them, but I think they will probably help you understand why the market seems to be working against you.  It happens for a reason.  
> 
> "Trading in the Zone" ~Mark Douglas
> "The Mental Game of Poker" ~Jared Tendler


Thanks !!

----------


## Dianne

> pres,
> 
> I just made the connection between Mellon Bank and Ripple.  There are rumors they have centralized nodes monitoring their decentralized blockchain with "Coin Validation" technology.  The son is heir to the Mellon Bank fortune that manages $27 trillion with a T.  He wanted to start a company called Coin Validation that wanted to paint BTC into two colors, black and white.  White being verified. Black having been discovered to be connected to the dark web.  Which needs a White cleansing to be re-issued to you.
> 
> He has a major seat at the Ripple table.
> 
> Man, AVOID Ripple. lol


I always had a funny feeling about Ripple, especially when I discovered Apple was involved.    I only have 350, but I will hang on and not sell.     I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Ripple emerges as the alt coin accepted by McDonalds.

----------


## presence

> I've almost given up on the ltc/btc moon so jumping back and forth from ltc to CNH on btc-e.     I'm not sure what I am doing, but picking up around 30 LTC per day doing it,  which for me is far better than my past history of losing coins.      I'm buying around 7.75 and selling around 8.37 .


1) don't give up on LTC moon... I'm admittedly off on the timeline but everything I based my call on still stands true

2) be very cautious dumping coins at 8.37 CNH;  that's like *25% below true market value* (which is why there's such high volatility atm).  BTCe is basically out of CNH... the chinese trollbox has been dead all month and prices are essentially crashed across the board in LTCCHN BTCCNH and USDCNH.   At any point somebody can swoop into BTCe w/ $100-250k USD worth of CNH and clean house;  suddenly the price will be closer to 11 CNH (like huobi and okcoin) and you will take *HEAVY* losses in trying to get your coins back.  Bottom line: Do not sleep in CNH while prices are depressed like this (USDCNH is sub 6.25).

3) congrats on picking up some LTC on the volatility though 




Per yahoo finance the going rate is  6.248
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDCNH=X

Per btce the going rate is 4.68 last

There is clearly an issue in getting "Offshore Renminbi" into BTCe atm; I don't have any details as to why.

----------


## muh_roads

> Its all good.  
> 
> I was kinda quiet because I was half pissed / half ashamed.
> 
> I've paid myself back in cash for everything originally invested a long time ago.  Plus I got this badass computer from ZeMan beyond that; so its not like I've been hurt by crypto. 
> 
> Since I started Honey Badger sales at the new year I'm about 25% back from where I was at my height.   
> 
> I'm hoping my latest foray into LTC pushes me back to where I was in October.  I have a 4 trade 30 day plan for LTC; then exit.  
> ...


Yeah man I'm really sorry to hear all that as well.  But that's awesome you've already recovered as much as you have in the short amount of time you've been back.

Moolah.io was poison to a lot of ppl...that really sucked a lot of the $#@!coin action out of 2014...Ethereum crowdsale was probably another contributing factor.  But I can see why you're afraid to touch any exchanges.  I would recommend bittrex if you want to try playing Darkcoin.  Problem is they are located in the US...I think.  My fear with bittrex is that it could be a government confiscation waiting to happen since they don't have the banker lobbied money transmitter licenses in all states.

Does anyone know what $#@!coin exchanges are outside of the US?  Cryptsy has the proper licenses being a Florida co., but you have to verify.

I thought Bitfinex had darkcoin pairs?  Guess they took those down.

----------


## presence

exchange list for DRK

http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/Exchanges




> Austin Global Exchange
> https://agx.io/ [1]
> 
> 
> Bittrex
> https://bittrex.com/ [2]
> 
> 
> Bleutrade
> ...

----------


## Dianne

> I had a little over 90% of my holdings at mintpal when they went offline.
> 
> I had great faith in mintpaljay and mintpaljason, had many conversations w/ them in freenode... I thought all was cool.  Then they sold out to that alex green guy...  I really wasn't aware of it until it was too late.
> 
> I got destroyed; I thought about walking away from crypto... one of the things that brought me back was you guys keeping this thread alive in my absence.


That really sucks, sorry pres

----------


## Dianne

> 1) don't give up on LTC moon... I'm admittedly off on the timeline but everything I based my call on still stands true
> 
> 2) be very cautious dumping coins at 8.37 CNH;  that's like *25% below true market value* (which is why there's such high volatility atm).  BTCe is basically out of CNH... the chinese trollbox has been dead all month and prices are essentially crashed across the board in LTCCHN BTCCNH and USDCNH.   At any point somebody can swoop into BTCe w/ $100-250k USD worth of CNH and clean house;  suddenly the price will be closer to 11 CNH (like huobi and okcoin) and you will take *HEAVY* losses in trying to get your coins back.  Bottom line: Do not sleep in CNH while prices are depressed like this (USDCNH is sub 6.25).
> 
> 3) congrats on picking up some LTC on the volatility though 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, that's great advice !!    I'll sleep in LTC.

----------


## Dianne

> Yeah man I'm really sorry to hear all that as well.  But that's awesome you've already recovered as much as you have in the short amount of time you've been back.
> 
> Moolah.io was poison to a lot of ppl...that really sucked a lot of the $#@!coin action out of 2014...Ethereum crowdsale was probably another contributing factor.  But I can see why you're afraid to touch any exchanges.  I would recommend bittrex if you want to try playing Darkcoin.  Problem is they are located in the US...I think.  My fear with bittrex is that it could be a government confiscation waiting to happen since they don't have the banker lobbied money transmitter licenses in all states.
> 
> Does anyone know what $#@!coin exchanges are outside of the US?  Cryptsy has the proper licenses being a Florida co., but you have to verify.
> 
> I thought Bitfinex had darkcoin pairs?  Guess they took those down.


You only have to verify with Cryptsy if you're dealing in cash trades to and from bank account, correct?

----------


## Dianne

> 1) don't give up on LTC moon... I'm admittedly off on the timeline but everything I based my call on still stands true
> 
> 2) be very cautious dumping coins at 8.37 CNH;  that's like *25% below true market value* (which is why there's such high volatility atm).  BTCe is basically out of CNH... the chinese trollbox has been dead all month and prices are essentially crashed across the board in LTCCHN BTCCNH and USDCNH.   At any point somebody can swoop into BTCe w/ $100-250k USD worth of CNH and clean house;  suddenly the price will be closer to 11 CNH (like huobi and okcoin) and you will take *HEAVY* losses in trying to get your coins back.  Bottom line: Do not sleep in CNH while prices are depressed like this (USDCNH is sub 6.25).
> 
> 3) congrats on picking up some LTC on the volatility though 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmmmmm I just did an instant replay on this post lol..    What am I missing?     Isn't it a good thing if CNH goes back to 11 and I sell my 7.75 CNH ltc for 11?

----------


## muh_roads

> If that chart is extrapolated out and overlay on top of the current situation, are we now talking somewhere between 80 to 120 if 120 to 150 is breached as our bottoms?


Oh wait I see the full image now with the side by side comparison.  The right-half was missing yesterday when I posted that.

RPF needs to update their vBulletin or something.

----------


## muh_roads

> You only have to verify with Cryptsy if you're dealing in cash trades to and from bank account, correct?


I thought that was the case for a while.  But now $#@!coin exchanges in the US are required to apply for the AML/KYC stuff according to FinCEN.  Even if they never deal in USD.  Land of the free.

For now I think cryptsy still operates the way you're thinking.  It seems only a matter of time before they enforce verification on all members and hold your coins ransom till you do.  Last time I logged in it had a big red band at the top that said UNVERIFIED or something...

----------


## presence

ltcbtc SMA39slope is now positive joining SMA20 through SMA38 in having positive slope.  SMA20 still continues to lead the pack with steepest slope; indicating continuation of the bullish trend.

----------


## presence

> Hmmmmmm I just did an instant replay on this post lol..    What am I missing?     Isn't it a good thing if CNH goes back to 11 and I sell my 7.75 CNH ltc for 11?


But *if you're holding CNH* short and LTC moves suddenly up to 11 (true market value)... you're $#@! out of luck.  You will only be able to get +/- 75% of your coins back.

There is some kind of artificial barrier preventing CNH from entering the exchange.  I don't understand "what it is" but soon... that barrier could very well dissolve... when it does price will move back to true market value almost instantly.

----------


## Dianne

> I thought that was the case for a while.  But now $#@!coin exchanges in the US are required to apply for the AML/KYC stuff according to FinCEN.  Even if they never deal in USD.  Land of the free.
> 
> For now I think cryptsy still operates the way you're thinking.  It seems only a matter of time before they enforce verification on all members and hold your coins ransom till you do.  Last time I logged in it had a big red band at the top that said UNVERIFIED or something...


Well that sucks.

----------


## Dianne

> But *if you're holding CNH* short and LTC moves suddenly up to 11 (true market value)... you're $#@! out of luck.  You will only be able to get +/- 75% of your coins back.
> 
> There is some kind of artificial barrier preventing CNH from entering the exchange.  I don't understand "what it is" but soon... that barrier could very well dissolve... when it does price will move back to true market value almost instantly.


Oh I see what your saying.   I think thats why I've lost so much money in the past.    Thanks for the heads up.

----------


## presence

CNH entering the market; 

ltccnh btccnh usdcnh all back on the move to par with the outside world

LTCCNH now 9.2

----------


## muh_roads

I cashed out of BTC, so it will probably rise now.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I cashed out of BTC, so it will probably rise now.

----------


## presence

> I cashed out of BTC, so it will probably rise now.


seems legit

----------


## muh_roads

> 


lol

Not entirely.  I still keep stuff in cold storage.  I don't trust exchanges with 100% of anything.

----------


## muh_roads

> seems legit


But badger is still in fiat I take it?  Minus whatever you are doing with LTC.

----------


## presence

> But badger is still in fiat I take it?  Minus whatever you are doing with LTC.


Yes, HB is still in fiat since Jan 26th.   Its very hesitant to buy into a long bull market and will likely be late; I suspect it will buy 240.  


I'm working on a way to incorporate OBV logic into the next release for the shift from bear to bull market long; no success yet.  Essentially, I always call those  big spikes down a 5.3 or 3.1 buy.   If I can figure out a way to stretch OBV to fit closing price as I have above... then calculate teh "area" between close and OBV after selling the peak... I might be able to encourage HB to buy into a bull market a little sooner with higher confidence.   I'm probably weeks out on that though.

----------


## Dianne

> lol
> 
> Not entirely.  I still keep stuff in cold storage.  I don't trust exchanges with 100% of anything.


All my stuff on exchanges.   Can you direct me to instructions on how to keep stuff in cold storage?

----------


## Dianne

> Yes, HB is still in fiat since Jan 26th.   Its very hesitant to buy into a long bull market and will likely be late; I suspect it will buy 240.  
> 
> 
> I'm working on a way to incorporate OBV logic into the next release for the shift from bear to bull market long; no success yet.  Essentially, I always call those  big spikes down a 5.3 or 3.1 buy.   If I can figure out a way to stretch OBV to fit closing price as I have above... then calculate teh "area" between close and OBV after selling the peak... I might be able to encourage HB to buy into a bull market a little sooner with higher confidence.   I'm probably weeks out on that though.


LOL, this must be why I shouldn't be investing in crypto.     I don't understand why someone would wait to buy at $240. when the price is now $215.     This strategy is blowing my mind.

----------


## muh_roads

> All my stuff on exchanges.   Can you direct me to instructions on how to keep stuff in cold storage?


I use Armory.  I think FSP-Rebel does too.  These are good instructions on how to set it up.  You need an offline computer that never touches the internet.  It also has you make a paper backup incase the offline pc ever takes a dump for whatever reason.  Once you watch all these videos it'll make sense how the process of having an offline wallet is similar to storing metals in your own safe.

Slideshow explaining the process...
https://bitcoinarmory.com/cold-storage/

Part 1: Intro to Offline Wallets
https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/...ffline-wallet/

Part 2: Watching Only Wallet
https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/...tching-wallet/

Part 3: Send from Online Wallet to Offline Wallet
https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/...iving-offline/

*Step-by-Step Tutorial*
https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/...fline-wallets/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Getting a bit more bullish from a long-term perspective, but still waiting for a possible re-test of the lows.

Description at link:
https://www.tradingview.com/v/5hD5uCQ6/

----------


## muh_roads

> Getting a bit more bullish from a long-term perspective, but still waiting for a possible re-test of the lows.
> 
> Description at link:
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/5hD5uCQ6/


That's basically how I've come to my conclusion when I say we'll be back to $450-500 in a couple months.  It'll either be the start of a 3rd red dragon or the start of a new bottom somewhere.

I think before newbitech's desire for $80 is tested, a 3rd red dragon needs to be created first whenever the next mini-run up happens.

----------


## presence

> LOL, this must be why I shouldn't be investing in crypto.     I don't understand why someone would wait to buy at $240. when the price is now $215.     This strategy is blowing my mind.


Sometimes it is best to "wait for confirmation", while others its ok to just have faith in reversal of trend upcoming.  When a bear market price drops really low; like sub 0.7 * 55ma12h; I buy... I don't care to wait for confirmation... I just buy.  I assume price will bounce because it always (sans collapse of mtgox) bounces when price bloody waterfalls down to that level.  

Othertimes... like when price is breaking out of a long down trend into a bull trend... you're not "buying a bottom" but buying INTO a bull market.

When the market is bear... you want to be SELLING the tops for profit.  So to buy into a bull market you REALLY want to be sure its has crossed the point of no return.  For this reason there is a gray area between bear market and bull market that is often accepted as un tradeable; you let the market decide... and when its on the other side... then you join the rally. 


This is a simplified example




Honey Badger calls that Green Dot trade in the yellow swing "Honey"; it represents the crossover from Red Dragon Long to Green Dragon Long.

Breakeven or slight loss of shares is generally acceptable in this relatively rare trading circumstance.


The alternative is to look for volume signals as to which way the "cat bounce" will break... bull or dead.   You can see this exemplified in the interpolation of OBV vs close a few posts earlier in this thread.

Some consider these alternative techniques akin to dowsing though and prefer to take the loss looking for confirmation of long trend reversal

----------


## presence

> The distributed bitcoin exchange  Coinffeine is an open source, peer-to-peer (P2P) bitcoin exchange platform. With Coinffeine you are able to buy and sell bitcoins securely and anonymously without having to rely on a centralized exchange like MtGox or Bitstamp. It's like BitTorrent for your bitcoins!


http://www.coinffeine.com/

http://www.coinffeine.com/index.html#how-it-works

https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinff...ange-algorithm

----------


## Dianne

> I use Armory.  I think FSP-Rebel does too.  These are good instructions on how to set it up.  You need an offline computer that never touches the internet.  It also has you make a paper backup incase the offline pc ever takes a dump for whatever reason.  Once you watch all these videos it'll make sense how the process of having an offline wallet is similar to storing metals in your own safe.
> 
> Slideshow explaining the process...
> https://bitcoinarmory.com/cold-storage/
> 
> Part 1: Intro to Offline Wallets
> https://bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/...ffline-wallet/
> 
> Part 2: Watching Only Wallet
> ...


Oh that's great, thanks !!

----------


## fatjohn

Well volatility is way down on both btc as ltc. ltcbtc holding just above 50 day moving average which is essentially flat as well. Very interesting, my gut says its going to explode soon. Up or down is the question. 80% of me says up.

----------


## presence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFxsIbhPws4

LIVE Crypto Policy Discussion featuring Circle

----------


## presence

Requiring the state treasurer to develop an implementation plan for the state to accept bitcoin 


*as payment for taxes* and fees.


https://legiscan.com/NH/bill/HB552/2015


utah as well 

http://le.utah.gov/~2015/bills/static/HCR006.html

*Bitcoin Foundation and Leading Bitcoin Companies Engage theAudience to Launch Public Education Campaign on Bitcoin*

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102420745#

----------


## presence

Barry Silbert on Twitter: "24hr *bitcoin* trading volume on new @*Coinbase* Exchange has eclipsed Bitstamp and BTC-e

----------


## presence

NYC The Department of Finance, which collects over $600 million  dollars in penalty fees each year, has suggested that it is open to the  idea of Bitcoin

Bloomfield, CT (PRWEB) February 10, 2015  The integration of  PayCoin by GoUrl Payment Gateway is emblematic of the continuing  acceptance of cryptocurrency and Bitcoin as a global payment device  resulting from its ease of use, low processing cost and unparalleled  security.


Core developer Jeff Garzik on the possibility of instant, secure zero-confirmation transactions

As Treasury secretary, Lawrence H. Summers took on complex economic policy... Now He likes Bitcoin NYTIMES
Wences Casares: I think bitcoin may very well be the best form of  money we've ever seen in the history of civilization.  Read more:  http://www.businessinsider.com/how-b...#ixzz3RZJpS4ZE

Bitcoin now accepted by 100,000 merchants worldwide


@CoinTelegraph 6h6 hours ago Poll: 8% of North American Retailers Will Adopt Bitcoin in 2015

CNBC Bitcoin Foundation and Leading Bitcoin Companies Engage  theAudience to Launch Public Education Campaign on Bitcoin 7 Hours Ago

----------


## presence

Xapo is now producing VISA debit cards linked to bitcoin wallets.   <<< HUGE

----------


## presence

Not sure what's up but DON'T MOVE COINS OFF OF BTCE until further notice.   Sent test coins and not showing up in blockchain.  Some users complaining in trollbox.  Prob not a big deal... I did move coins earlier in day without issue.


ETA:

ok seems cool... no confirms yet but it did finally show up in blockchain.  Took 50 minutes to show.

----------


## Dianne

> Not sure what's up but DON'T MOVE COINS OFF OF BTCE until further notice.   Sent test coins and not showing up in blockchain.  Some users complaining in trollbox.  Prob not a big deal... I did move coins earlier in day without issue.
> 
> 
> ETA:
> 
> ok seems cool... no confirms yet but it did finally show up in blockchain.  Took 50 minutes to show.


I was late reading this, but thanks for the warning.    I wish we had some way of knowing when new posts are added to this thread.

----------


## presence

Your deposit 0.001 BTC successfully credited.     Elapsed Time 1h 22m



...makes another good case for LTC.  I usually have 3 confirms within 10 minutes on LTC network.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Your deposit 0.001 BTC successfully credited.     Elapsed Time 1h 22m


I know the feeling when you're waiting for a transaction to clear and the confirmations are on the slow side. Like, did my $#@! just vanish and then relief finally comes.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


Pres, how do you make photos of bitcoinwisdom charts?  Do you have to have an account?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I was late reading this, but thanks for the warning.    I wish we had some way of knowing when new posts are added to this thread.


You can subscribe to it.

----------


## presence

> Pres, how do you make photos of bitcoinwisdom charts?  Do you have to have an account?


lubuntu/kgrab (screen capture)
lubuntu/gimp (photoshop)

----------


## presence

LibertyTeeth pumping LTCBTC w/ 2X 10,000 LTC walls

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Bitcoin making higher lows and higher highs now, first bullish signal since we bottomed out here.  Waiting for a retest of $240 and a pullback to get in.

----------


## muh_roads

> Bitcoin making higher lows and higher highs now, first bullish signal since we bottomed out here.  Waiting for a retest of $240 and a pullback to get in.


Thanks for the update.

----------


## muh_roads

I wonder if this is anticipation of news?   Insiders.  Watch carefully for what gets announced tomorrow.  Coinbase news pumped before release I believe.  This will either materialize into something or not soon...

----------


## muh_roads

Every time I get greedy, I lose.  From selling BTC in the hopes for lower to LTC being a piece of $#@!coin.  Really should've been playing Darkcoin instead.  Something that actually offers a difference.

I'm sorry man, but pres, LTC was really a bad call. Dianne I think got burned before on bad LTC calls around here.

Of course in the end it's my fault because I bought.  We really need to stop being so obnoxious and loud around here.  Anything can happen.  It's those stupid photoshops...they are hypnotizing. lol

It's easy to see how people can feel trolled.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Every time I get greedy, I lose.  From selling BTC in the hopes for lower to LTC being a piece of $#@!coin.  Really should've been playing Darkcoin instead.  Something that actually offers a difference.
> 
> I'm sorry man, but pres, LTC was really a bad call. Dianne I think got burned before on bad LTC calls around here.
> 
> Of course in the end it's my fault because I bought.  We really need to stop being so obnoxious and loud around here.  Anything can happen.  It's those stupid photoshops...they are hypnotizing. lol
> 
> It's easy to see how people can feel trolled.


There's really no way to tell someone who doesn't trade how to trade.  If you have to depend on someone else, then you're probably not going to be successful.  I could tell you it's going to be up in the $400s soon, but like you said, you'll probably get greedy or fearful along the way and, almost inevitably, you'll justify differing from the plan.

I don't know what pres thinks is going on now, but he can't give you all the answers all the time.  You actually have to know how to manage your trades as well, and that's something a prediction just won't give you.

----------


## muh_roads

> There's really no way to tell someone who doesn't trade how to trade.  If you have to depend on someone else, then you're probably not going to be successful.  I could tell you it's going to be up in the $400s soon, but like you said, you'll probably get greedy or fearful along the way and, almost inevitably, you'll justify differing from the plan.
> 
> I don't know what pres thinks is going on now, but he can't give you all the answers all the time.  You actually have to know how to manage your trades as well, and that's something a prediction just won't give you.


Well then there is really no point in offering analysis if the advice is to not listen to anyone else anyway.  Which...is advice in itself.  Paradox, heh.

I think a lot of ppl around here are just getting lucky.  When it was 230 and ppl are screaming BUY, it kept dropping to 160.  When it was 160, ppl said it'll keep going to 130.  When it was rising to 300, ppl said get out at 240.  But then they secretly get back in (or out) and like to claim they're a genius while telling others to not over trade...lol

I have enemies from the past group I was in.  I feel like our board is being watched.  I'm just going to switch back into lurk mode as this thread is better off without my whining anyway.  I think I do better if I just keep to myself.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well then there is really no point in offering analysis if the advice is to not listen to anyone else anyway.  Which...is advice in itself.  Paradox, heh.
> 
> I think a lot of ppl around here are just getting lucky.  When it was 230 and ppl are screaming BUY, it kept dropping to 160.  When it was 160, ppl said it'll keep going to 130.  When it was rising to 300, ppl said get out at 240.  But then they secretly get back in (or out) and like to claim they're a genius while telling others to not over trade...lol
> 
> I have enemies from the past group I was in.  I feel like our board is being watched.  I'm just going to switch back into lurk mode as this thread is better off without my whining anyway.  I think I do better if I just keep to myself.


Perhaps you're right.  I guess I'll stop posting my analysis.

----------


## muh_roads

> Perhaps you're right.  I guess I'll stop posting my analysis.


But you shouldn't take my advice. lol

So 239 long, 'eh?

----------


## Dianne

The analysis and predictions you guys post are very helpful to me.     I have been burned on LTC from recommendations on this thread but that's my fault.    I've been burned listening to the trollbox also lol.

Keep the analysis coming muh_roads and PaulConvention.   I love reading the predictions.   I do suggest there be no more BUY NOW or SELL NOW shouts which you guys have never been guilty of.     I said several weeks ago in this thread that really no one can predict with certainty where crypto is going.   It is all anybody's guess.

----------


## amonasro

Don't despair muh_roads, if this bull keeps bucking LTC will probably get a pump. When a lot of resources go into the BTC market, LTC usually does not react right away but it eventually will.

Also, it's a good idea to develop your own trading style and use the advice here as possibilities to what might happen in the future. Also (*Dianne too!*) read Master the Markets by Tom Williams, or The Undeclared Secrets that Drive the Stock Market (same info). Google for the PDF. It demystified things a great deal and allowed me to make some great trades recently.

----------


## Dianne

> Don't despair muh_roads, if this bull keeps bucking LTC will probably get a pump. When a lot of resources go into the BTC market, LTC usually does not react right away but it eventually will.
> 
> Also, it's a good idea to develop your own trading style and use the advice here as possibilities to what might happen in the future. Also (*Dianne too!*) read Master the Markets by Tom Williams, or The Undeclared Secrets that Drive the Stock Market (same info). Google for the PDF. It demystified things a great deal and allowed me to make some great trades recently.


Thanks for the reading advice.   I'm on it !!!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> But you shouldn't take my advice. lol
> 
> So 239 long, 'eh?


Yeah, but it may take a while to break through.  I'm convinced, though.

When we break through $240 resistance with strength, I'll be targeting $360 for the next level of daily resistance.

----------


## presence

> It's easy to see how people can feel trolled.


Generally, you guys play a much shorter game than I do.    I'm still holding LTC and my long outlook hasn't changed a bit.  

Today's downward price movement on ltcbtc doesn't even appear on 1 week candles; its a blip.

LTCBTC SMA41day now has positive slope, joining SMA20 through 40day.


_I challenge you_ to look back in time on 1d ltcbtc candles and find a moment when SMA25day, SMA30day, SMA35day, and SMA40day ALL began pointing uphill and it was a poor time to buy. 

*I reiterate my strong buy recommendation for LTC.*

----------


## presence

LTC*USD* 2h 30, 40, 350, 370 MA's

----------


## presence

*HONEY BADGER 50X ALGORITHM*

VARIABLES:

12h candle moving averages:

ma2 
ma30
ma55 
ma60 
ma90 
ma150 

expressions of those moving averages:

floor = 0.75*ma55
moon = 1.05*ma55
resistance = ma30 + 2.8*(ma30 ma60)


DEFINE MARKET:

It is a bull (green dragon) market if:

ma30 > ma60 and
ma60 > ma90 and
ma90 > ma150 and
ma2 > ma30 and
ma30 has positive slope
ma60 has positive slope
ma90 has positive slope

It is a bear (red dragon) market if:

resistance < ma150 and
ma2 < ma90 and
ma2 < ma150 and
ma150 slope is negative and
resistance < ma90

Its a capitulating market if:

It was previously a bull market and
It is currently neither bull or bear

It is cat bouncing market if:

It was previously a bear market and
It is currently neither bull or bear

It is an overbought bull market if:

ma2 > resistance

Bear market fell through floor if:

ma2 < floor

Bear market is continuing if:

ma2 has negative slope
ma2 crosses under ma30

or if ma2 is over the moon

Despair is when market is capitulating but:

ma2 is less than ma90

Final run of bulls is when market is capitulating, you bought despair and:

ma2 > ma60 and
ma2 > 1.1*ma90

Bad Karma is when mode is cat bounce, but:

ma2 < 1.05*ma30 and
ma2 > ma60 and
ma90 has strong positive slope

Gold is when mode is cat bounce, but:

ma2 < ma90
ma90 < ma60
ma90 < ma30
ma90 has positive slope


TRADE:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BULL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
GREEN DRAGON:
Always buy the beginning of bull market

OVERBOUGHT
Always sell an overbought bull market

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CAPITULATION
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CAPITULATION:
Always sell beginning of capitulation

DESPAIR
Always buy despair

FINAL RUN OF BULLS
If holding despair dump final run of bulls

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BEAR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
RED DRAGON:
Always dump the beginning of a bear market

PURGATORY:
If bear market fell through floor, buy it

DEEPER:
If holding purgatory and bear market is continuing dump

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CAT BOUNCE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HONEY:
Always buy beginning of cat bounce

KARMA:
Always sell bad karma

GOLD:
Always buy gold

----------


## presence

> When we break through $240 resistance with strength, I'll be targeting $360 for the next level of daily resistance.


I generally agree with that sentiment;  mid 300's will be next major pullback if we manage to break full bull here.

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Saw the signs and got in just before the breakout.  I may be looking to add to my position on a pullback if it stays strong.

Sleeping in bitcoin tonight and feeling pretty good about it.

----------


## presence

> Sleeping in bitcoin tonight and feeling pretty good about it.


2/90 12h cross on all exchanges; hard angle

=

Sleep in crypto all month

----------


## muh_roads

Back in @ 240.  Good times.  Lots of good Africa news lately is my guess.  Africa has discovered Bitcoin.  BitPesa, investment and expansion plans.

Nice to see LTC doesn't really hurt since LTC/USD is rising right along.

----------


## muh_roads

Darkcoin going thru a pullback.  Bottom predictions?

----------


## muh_roads

> http://www.coinffeine.com/
> 
> http://www.coinffeine.com/index.html#how-it-works
> 
> https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinff...ange-algorithm


This made my mind explode.

So USD is represented as coins or data chunks.  You never pull cash out there?  Or is this the name of the protocol?  To give the chunks value, they have to be traded for USD somewhere...unless the whole exchange industry is going to accept this?

When this is integrated as a Sidechain...wow...Will need coinjoin as another Sidechain to be useful for privacy.

----------


## presence

> This made my mind explode.
> 
> So USD is represented as coins or data chunks.  You never pull cash out there?  Or is this the name of the protocol?


Made my mind kind of explode too...  The best way I can conceptualize... its kind of like security deposit on an apartment.


*I think*

Its tying a user A's bank account to user B's bank account.

Then user B's bitcoin wallet to user A's bitcoin wallet.

Then both parties put up bitcoin security deposits.

Then chunks smaller than security deposit are moved from bank to bank, while equal sized chunks are moved wallet to wallet.


they use the term "payment processor that supports non-reversable payments", which I assume would be a type of bank transfer ??

???

Maybe its westernunion / moneygram / greendot type situation for the "non-reversible payments"? 


Not sure if fully grasping what's happening though. 

Just know the future is a very cool place to move money

----------


## BUTSRSLY

TOOK PROFITS AT 215; BUYING TUNGSTEN

----------


## muh_roads

Can't tell if this mini-pump is done or not.  Red candles trying to pull it back down.

----------


## presence



----------


## FSP-Rebel

Jumped over $255, wonder if we're done here for the day.

----------


## presence

> Jumped over $255, wonder if we're done here for the day.


If I had to close my laptop for a month... I'd buy crypto and sleep tight. 

My expectation is this road ends at $375

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Can't tell if this mini-pump is done or not.  Red candles trying to pull it back down.


Try not to be so swayed by the candles.  The trend is clearly up.  It goes parabolic when you expect a pullback, so don't expect one.

----------


## muh_roads

> I wonder if this is anticipation of news?   Insiders.  Watch carefully for what gets announced tomorrow.  Coinbase news pumped before release I believe.  This will either materialize into something or not soon...


Big rumor that Google is mimicking Microsoft & integrating Bitcoin into their mobile apps.  Google Wallet not mentioned but very possible.  It would make sense if Google is trying to get the upper-hand on Apple Pay.

If this turns out to be true, insiders buying beforehand definitely exists.  When Baidu (The "Google" of China) integrated Bitcoin for that short period, it was good.

----------


## muh_roads

Man, $#@! the whales that made those red dumpy candles.  Almost got to $270 there.  Wiped out all the awesome gains of the last 2 days.  Did anyone get out $250-$270?

pres, did honey badger go all in?  It made some wild swings there near the end that could've made that possible I think.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Man, $#@! the whales that made those red dumpy candles.  Almost got to $270 there.  Wiped out all the awesome gains of the last 2 days.  Did anyone get out $250-$270?
> 
> pres, did honey badger go all in?  It made some wild swings there near the end that could've made that possible I think.


Yeah, that's not good news.  The trend didn't hold up. 

I got out at break even because I was sleeping when it started to crash.  Could've had some decent gains if I had gotten out earlier. *sigh*

----------


## amonasro

Lots of traders sold on the bter hack news, but honestly it was a $#@!coin exchange. I think the market could use this as an opportunity to clear out even more selling. I think we bounce or consolidate here. Secondary test of $240 on the 15m looks weak anyway.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Lots of traders sold on the bter hack news, but honestly it was a $#@!coin exchange. I think the market could use this as an opportunity to clear out even more selling. I think we bounce or consolidate here. Secondary test of $240 on the 15m looks weak anyway.


Yeah, I sold at $247 and got back in at $242 when we retested the $240 breakout zone.  May be more downside to come, but I would rather gain something than nothing from this.

----------


## amonasro

> Yeah, I sold at $247 and got back in at $242 when we retested the $240 breakout zone.  May be more downside to come, but I would rather gain something than nothing from this.



Nice. I try to catch the bigger moves; long still open at $230.

----------


## muh_roads

> Nice. I try to catch the bigger moves; long still open at $230.


Might want to adjust to 220.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Nice. I try to catch the bigger moves; long still open at $230.


Ugh.  I got out before it started crashing again, but this is so frustrating.  I waited for days for this breakout and something just had to mess it up.

----------


## muh_roads

This may be the end of BTER.  I heard all they had to their name was 7 cold storage wallets each with 1000 in them.  So it's possible they have been entirely cleaned out.

Smells like inside job.

----------


## muh_roads

> Ugh.  I got out before it started crashing again, but this is so frustrating.  I waited for days for this breakout and something just had to mess it up.


My coin total is just getting knicked away at moving in and out like this.  At least I'm less afraid of loss selling now.  Just gotta keep with the trends I guess and hope for the best.

I think what you're feeling right now is exactly how I was feeling missing out on the majority of that awesomeness from 160-300 last time.

BTER is located in China right?  They are already reeling from that last one.  I forget the name.  This won't be good in terms of media over the coming days.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> My coin total is just getting knicked away at moving in and out like this.  At least I'm less afraid of loss selling now.  Just gotta keep with the trends I guess and hope for the best.
> 
> I think what you're feeling right now is exactly how I was feeling missing out on the majority of that awesomeness from 160-300 last time.
> 
> BTER is located in China right?  They are already reeling from that last one.  I forget the name.  This won't be good in terms of media over the coming days.


Yeah, I think they are.

The reason I'm frustrated is because bitcoin only makes big moves once or twice a month, and when you catch one and it goes bust on you, you have to wait until the next one and it's a big deal because now you don't know if you're waiting for it to go up again or down.  To be honest, I'd rather it go down this time so that my money buys more coins.

Oh, well.  I guess it could be worse.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, I think they are.
> 
> The reason I'm frustrated is because bitcoin only makes big moves once or twice a month, and when you catch one and it goes bust on you, it's a big deal because now you don't know if you're waiting for it to go up again or down.  To be honest, I'd rather it go down this time so that my money buys more coins.


I'm with you on that one. More coins.  Getting tired of missing good opportunity.  That would've been a great 2 days of profit had I got out last night.

Apparently 4xForecaster posted a warning 17 hours ago.  I should've listened.  I haven't checked him out lately because he covers so many different markets and hasn't posted much on BTC lately.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm with you on that one. More coins.  Getting tired of missing good opportunity.  That would've been a great 2 days of profit had I got out last night.
> 
> Apparently 4xForecaster posted a warning 17 hours ago.  I should've listened.  I haven't checked him out lately because he covers so many different markets and hasn't posted much on BTC lately.


I saw his post.  It wasn't necessarily a warning as much as a question.  He was skeptical, and he was right to be skeptical.  What's more interesting, though is that some of his charts point toward a lower low in the future before the real recovery.  Others have said so as well.  I was already thinking that might be the case, but not until after another bull run.  We'll see what happens from here.

----------


## muh_roads

ok, yeah, ppl are bailing hard.  MACD's look horrible. 1H could turn around for a scalp but 4H looks barf-tastic.  I think people anticipate China to complain a lot about BTER.  Media over the next few days will be interesting.

----------


## muh_roads

LTC/USD is slowly $#@!ting but because BTC is doing worse, LTC/BTC looks promising again.

----------


## amonasro

> Might want to adjust to 220.


I'd have to buy too many more coins to do this putting my margin call price uncomfortably close to $180. I'm used to holding multi-thousand dollar red positions during shakeouts. It's a bit nail-biting but part of the game, unfortunately. This one doesn't look too severe, but we'll see how many sellers come out to play. 

You seem like a pretty reactive trader. This is not good if you want to be profitable. Learn to think like the pros: They use bad news like this to shake out the market, just like Gox, just like Bitstamp. They will not fight the market, but wait until all the selling (which they absorb) is finished. If you can grab a quick short from it, great, but you run the risk of shorting the bottom and playing right into their hands. You must join them to make money. Ideally you are looking for entry points during strong down moves and exit points during strong up moves. 

Anyway Bter, Poloniex, Cryptsy... good riddance. It is well before most altcoins' time if you ask me. A few of them are ok and have long term viability, but to have them traded alongside obvious scamcoins doesn't help their cause.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'd have to buy too many more coins to do this putting my margin call price uncomfortably close to $180. I'm used to holding multi-thousand dollar red positions during shakeouts. It's a bit nail-biting but part of the game, unfortunately. This one doesn't look too severe, but we'll see how many sellers come out to play. 
> 
> You seem like a pretty reactive trader. This is not good if you want to be profitable. Learn to think like the pros: They use bad news like this to shake out the market, just like Gox, just like Bitstamp. They will not fight the market, but wait until all the selling (which they absorb) is finished. If you can grab a quick short from it, great, but you run the risk of shorting the bottom and playing right into their hands. You must join them to make money. Ideally you are looking for entry points during strong down moves and exit points during strong up moves. 
> 
> Anyway Bter, Poloniex, Cryptsy... good riddance. It is well before most altcoins' time if you ask me. A few of them are ok and have long term viability, but to have them traded alongside obvious scamcoins doesn't help their cause.


At the same time, though, don't catch falling knives...

----------


## presence

I'm pretty meh.

BTER has like 100BTC daily volume.  Its a cheeze ball exchange with obvious lack of security; they had an equal loss last year on NXT.  Relative to the 10k-30k BTC daily at the big exchanges; this event though a "huge panic" in the short term is a blip on the map beyond be yet another reminder to keep my funds off of the mainstream exchanges.


I held through.   And I'm holding long.

I've been selling honeybadger contracts and converting BTC to LTC all week.

----------


## amonasro

> At the same time, though, don't catch falling knives...


Very true. Ideally you want a panicky selling climax to go long. The big ones are easy to spot as long-term support is broken and new lows are achieved. This panics the herd into selling and the big players step in to buy. With smaller selloffs it's not always clear if they will stop or go lower as big traders can easily sell the market to cause more panic if they think there is supply left. One thing they won't do is fight the market so if there's no more selling, the cheapest way to go is up. That's what you want to look for, low volume red candles after a high volume selloff indicating a successful market test (basically a failed shakeout). If not, they may want to test the area again so sellers don't dump into a future rally. It is a drawn out process, sometimes with multiple shakeouts pulling supply from weak holders, but it does indicate that they are bullish.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

My most recent idea:



Description at link:

https://www.tradingview.com/v/loa5kWvI/

----------


## muh_roads

Me no likey the zone of uncertainty.  210 to 240 is such a wide gap.

pres, did HB dump lower than it bought?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Me no likey the zone of uncertainty.  210 to 240 is such a wide gap.
> 
> pres, did HB dump lower than it bought?


The zone of uncertainty is what we must live with as traders.  Within certain consolidation zones, there is not much you can do and even if you do find a reliable pattern, it may not carry a great risk/reward ratio.  That's not to say you can't find good patterns, but they won't have a very big payoff and you should only trade them if you know what you are doing.

----------


## muh_roads

So 240 is broken thru, sorta.  You going long?

MACD on the 15m, 1h, 1D, has already been green for a while.  The only one that looks sorta breakout-ish is the 4h.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So 240 is broken thru, sorta.  You going long?
> 
> MACD on the 15m, 1h, 1D, has already been green for a while.  The only one that looks sorta breakout-ish is the 4h.


I think so.  $240 is really just an area, not a specific breaking point, but a clear indicator would be $243 on volume.  It does appear to be making a breakout pattern here, so I'm thinking it's going to break out soon.

----------


## muh_roads

Giant green mega cock on okcoin...lol

Something like that can ruin a nice breakout trend forming I'd think.  Oddly enough, nobody has skinny green doji'd it.

----------


## muh_roads

It looks like a noob pump.  If someone has 4000-5000 BTC worth like that, they should be pacing themselves and wait for the next tick.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It looks like a noob pump.  If someone has 4000-5000 BTC worth like that, they should be pacing themselves and wait for the next tick.


I dunno, man.  That pattern was pretty clear and just broke out as expected.

----------


## muh_roads

> I dunno, man.  That pattern was pretty clear and just broke out as expected.


Is all good. I'm in but I didn't all-in.  4xForecaster doesn't seem to trust it.  Although he is more of a 1D trader.

Did u all-in?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Is all good. I'm in but I didn't all-in.  4xForecaster doesn't seem to trust it.  Although he is more of a 1D trader.
> 
> Did u all-in?


Yeah, but I'm still watching it closely.  I'm already in the green, so I'm not too worried about it.

ETA: I haven't seen anything lately from 4xForecaster that said he was skeptical.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, but I'm still watching it closely.  I'm already in the green, so I'm not too worried about it.
> 
> ETA: I haven't seen anything lately from 4xForecaster that said he was skeptical.


He's just convinced of his double-bottom happening.  But yeah, he doesn't post much.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> He's just convinced of his double-bottom happening.  But yeah, he doesn't post much.


Maybe so.  This breakout was short-lived.  Probably going to bounce around for a while before choosing a new trend.

----------


## muh_roads

Did you attempt to scalp any of that today?  I mostly broke even exiting from this morning but it looks like I could've gained fairly decently had I just relaxed.

Is trading your day job?

----------


## dannno

> Is trading your day job?


No, he's an english teacher, a foreign student travel adviser and author. He recently lost his virginity on a park bench, was diagnosed with Epstein-barr in 2012, seems mildly autistic and is unnecessarily paranoid that I am obsessed with him.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Did you attempt to scalp any of that today?  I mostly broke even exiting from this morning but it looks like I could've gained fairly decently had I just relaxed.
> 
> Is trading your day job?


Pretty much.  I scalped a whole $20.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No, he's an english teacher, a foreign student travel adviser and author. He recently lost his virginity on a park bench, was diagnosed with Epstein-barr in 2012, seems mildly autistic and is unnecessarily paranoid that I am obsessed with him.


Mildly autistic?

Speaking of paranoid, you seem pretty self-conscious about it.

BTW,  one of my sisters actually is autistic, so you can add that to your collection of things you know about me.

----------


## Dianne

This thread was really bullish on ltc/btc a week or so ago.    Has that dream faded or are we still expecting a moon?

----------


## muh_roads

> Mildly autistic?
> 
> Speaking of paranoid, you seem pretty self-conscious about it.
> 
> BTW,  one of my sisters actually is autistic, so you can add that to your collection of things you know about me.


I thought maybe the second sentence was teasing me for asking "nosey" questions, heh.

BTW Morgan Spurlock survived on nothing but Bitcoin for a week in his next "Inside Man" show on CNN.  I think it airs tomorrow.  It could get a pump like the Bitpay college bowl.

----------


## muh_roads

> This thread was really bullish on ltc/btc a week or so ago.    Has that dream faded or are we still expecting a moon?


If BTC falls, LTC/BTC generally goes up.  But not as fast as if you were to sit in fiat and wait for new BTC lows, IMO.  The USD value falls with Bitcoin, just not as fast which gives the appearance of LTC/BTC increasing.  You've probably noticed this by now too.

This is 4x on LTC/USD...
https://www.tradingview.com/x/maqV4kQJ/

His 2.29 target wasn't hit.  I think it would've hit if the retarded BTER panic didn't happen.  It could either try to make another run at it, or it is already heading to those lower numbers...that part I'm not sure.

----------


## fatjohn

I converted a small LTC position into BTC, wake me up when the rate hits 0.0085.

----------


## presence

> This thread was really bullish on ltc/btc a week or so ago.    Has that dream faded or are we still expecting a moon?


MOON

----------


## muh_roads

Who is ready for the Morgan Spurlock pump?  lol

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Who is ready for the Morgan Spurlock pump?  lol


Did it already air tonight? CNN's viewership has taken a nose dive in recent years but it's definitely a positive to get this info in front of a couple hundred thousand extra pairs of eyes.

----------


## Dianne

> Who is ready for the Morgan Spurlock pump?  lol


Who the hell is Morgan Spurlock? lol

----------


## presence

> Who the hell is Morgan Spurlock? lol


Most well known for fast food documentary "Super Size Me" 



Here's the trailer; its at 9PM tonight:





Anybody got a live stream?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Meanwhile, all the "cool'' people will be watching The Kelly File right after O'Reilly for another dose of ISIS war propaganda.

----------


## muh_roads

> Anybody got a live stream?


I second that question.  It's on in 15 minutes.




> Meanwhile, all the "cool'' people will be watching The Kelly File right after O'Reilly for another dose of ISIS war propaganda.


Is that a Fox News show?  Luckily the millennials (who btc seems to appeal to the most) watch more CNN, I suspect.

----------


## Dianne

> Most well known for fast food documentary "Super Size Me" 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the trailer; its at 9PM tonight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol, at me weighing in at 108 pounds dripping wet... no wonder I didn't see that movie.

----------


## Dianne

> Meanwhile, all the "cool'' people will be watching The Kelly File right after O'Reilly for another dose of ISIS war propaganda.


Oh yeah, I have that on as we speak.    Obama going to give them jobs, because ISIS (aka the CIA) needs work lolol.

----------


## muh_roads

> lol, at me weighing in at 108 pounds dripping wet... no wonder I didn't see that movie.


nekkid pics?

----------


## muh_roads

Whales look like they might be attempting a "buy the hype, sell the news" situation.  Right when the show started the dumps came.

Just double-bottom at 170.  I'm sick of waiting already.

----------


## presence

*LIVE STREAM*

http://www.hulkuss.com/cnn-news-live-streaming/

----------


## muh_roads

> *LIVE STREAM*
> 
> http://www.hulkuss.com/cnn-news-live-streaming/


Bad ass.  Make a new thread?

----------


## Dianne

> Whales look like they might be attempting a "buy the hype, sell the news" situation.  Right when the show started the dumps came.
> 
> Just double-bottom at 170.  I'm sick of waiting already.


I agree... I'm so sick of this chit.   Can't believe I sit and watch btc-e all damn day, it's like watching the grass grow.    Two weeks ago it was posted to buy ltc/btc cause within 72 hours a moon...   Instead it went to hell.    I'm trying to keep a positive attitude, as you can see (LMAO) .. but right now thinking to get my btc out, send to Coinbase and log back in two years and see where we are.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Whales look like they might be attempting a "buy the hype, sell the news" situation.  Right when the show started the dumps came.
> 
> Just double-bottom at 170.  I'm sick of waiting already.


Just tuned in and the first thing I see is him going into a coffee shop trying to use Bitcoin and then they show the current price (at the time of production) at $634. Why not dump after seeing that at this point?

----------


## muh_roads

> Just tuned in and the first thing I see is him going into a coffee shop trying to use Bitcoin and then they show the current price (at the time of production) at $634. Why not dump after seeing that at this point?


That was a great segment.  

Especially the animations.  More waves incoming.  Keep growing your own personal boat.

I'm thinking of signing up for Bitwage.  They can intercept your direct deposit and let you convert a portion (or all) of your paycheck to Bitcoin.  Might start buying more things I need thru purse.io.  They give you 20-30% off when buying thru Amazon.  (I think it is owned by Roger Ver)  Was checking it out today.  Awesome site and how it works.

I tested these guys out in 2013 to help me pay the electric bills when mining.  They were great until they got shut down.
http://billpayforcoins.com/

They recently came back and got the licensing they need to pay about 50K different utility company bills.

Detach from the greasy rotten banks.  #CloseTheLoop

----------


## presence

> Bad ass.  Make a new thread?


I did when I posted it here.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I agree... I'm so sick of this chit.   Can't believe I sit and watch btc-e all damn day, it's like watching the grass grow.    Two weeks ago it was posted to buy ltc/btc cause within 72 hours a moon...   Instead it went to hell.    I'm trying to keep a positive attitude, as you can see (LMAO) .. but right now thinking to get my btc out, send to Coinbase and log back in two years and see where we are.


Might not be a bad idea.

----------


## muh_roads

I personally think we're doing this all wrong.  The point is to get more coins, not give away our coins.  We keep waiting and buying near the trend line when ppl scream "it's gonna break out" and then it dumps to scare ppl out every time.  Should be scooping the bottom of the "area of uncertainty" or whatever.  We keep buying too high 240-245 and then we get screwed.

Just a nasty, $#@!ty pattern.  Not playing the consolidation game well at all.

----------


## Dianne

> I personally think we're doing this all wrong.  The point is to get more coins, not give away our coins.  We keep waiting and buying near the trend line when ppl scream "it's gonna break out" and then it dumps to scare ppl out every time.  Should be scooping the bottom of the "area of uncertainty" or whatever.  We keep buying too high 240-245 and then we get screwed.
> 
> Just a nasty, $#@!ty pattern.  Not playing the consolidation game well at all.


That makes sense.   Seems we're doing something wrong lol.

----------


## muh_roads

> That makes sense.   Seems we're doing something wrong lol.


I need to switch back to my original trading plan of laying down a spread of limit orders.  You generally are 50-50.

If we're unsure what is going on and you have 20 BTC worth of USD you can use to buy, then you place a spread.  And how conservative you want to be is up to you.

You also have 20 BTC ready to sell higher that is already in.

Example...Current price say is 245

1 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 220 (Start at what you think is the bottom)
2 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 221
3 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 222
4 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 223
5 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 224
6 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 225
7 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 226
8 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 227
9 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 228
10- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 229
11- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 230
12- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 231
13- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 232
14- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 233
15- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 234
16- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 235
17- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 236
18- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 237
19- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 238
20- Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 239

This method doesn't hurt as bad when falling.

Then have your sell ready.

Example...Current price = 245

1 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 250
2 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 251
3 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 252
4 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 253
5 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 254
6 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 255
7 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 256
8 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 257
9 - Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 258
10- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 259
11- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 260
12- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 261
13- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 262
14- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 263
15- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 264
16- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 265
17- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 266
18- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 267
19- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 268
20- Limit order Sell 1 BTC @ 269  (Start at what you think is the top of the current wave)

--------------------

Problem with this is you are doing a lot of following along...canceling orders, and remaking new ones.

----------


## presence

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/6-sa...onica-v0-9/480

https://tradewave.net/strategy/yAQIvxLfgg
  Jan 1 2013 to current:


[2015-02-20 04:00:00] Total Run Time: 75.57 sec
[2015-02-20 04:00:00] BNH......: 18.0X 
[2015-02-20 04:00:00] BTC_gain.: 6.8X 
[2015-02-20 04:00:00] ROI......: 122.7X 
[2015-02-20 04:00:00] Trades...: 16

*
OPEN SOURCE
DELUXE LOGIC PACKAGE AVAILABLE SOON
*_RPFPRESENCE@GMAIL.COM FOR DETAILS
__

trade log
http://pastebin.com/xHbRZBia_

----------


## muh_roads

I think China is losing the supply battle.  USD exchanges like Bitstamp are pulling away from OKCoin and doing their own thing more often now.  Bitfinex looks like a morph of the two.

Go 'murica.

----------


## Dianne

> I need to switch back to my original trading plan of laying down a spread of limit orders.  You generally are 50-50.
> 
> If we're unsure what is going on and you have 20 BTC worth of USD you can use to buy, then you place a spread.  And how conservative you want to be is up to you.
> 
> You also have 20 BTC ready to sell higher that is already in.
> 
> Example...Current price say is 245
> 
> 1 - Limit order Buy 1 BTC @ 220 (Start at what you think is the bottom)
> ...


Wow I like that.    That's the perfect plan for someone like me,  just a casual investor that doesn't understand or follow the charts.

----------


## muh_roads

Trying to break thru a triple top...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Trying to break thru a triple top...


I would be really surprised if it broke through now.  We're retesting the highs, but the volume is barely a fraction of what it was before.  Less people are wanting to buy in.

----------


## zeMan

Have you guys noticed the 1 Day MACD? Has only gone positive 3 other times over the past year, followed by a nice rise every time. Just went positive a day ago - https://www.tradingview.com/e/ZBxeFNwW/



I guess it's possible it could drop down again, but this is pretty bullish eh?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

As I expected, that test didn't break through, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.  My last idea shows a compelling ascending triangle, suggesting that the steady rise will continue and probably accelerate if it breaks through this resistance.  Right now, we appear to be headed for a bull market, but this cannot be confirmed until we take out the new high at $268.

----------


## muh_roads

Broke thru the orange line for a bit.

<311>Oh, ah-woah-woah.  Red is the color of your d-um-py.  Green pumps come unnaturally.</311>

Come on 1D double-bottom.  Margins have been so thin over the last week I need a nice healthy rescoop to recover some $#@!-ups.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Broke thru the orange line for a bit.
> 
> <311>Oh, ah-woah-woah.  Red is the color of your d-um-py.  Green pumps come unnaturally.</311>
> 
> Come on 1D double-bottom.  Margins have been so thin over the last week I need a nice healthy rescoop to recover some $#@!-ups.


No support area or trend line can exactly predict the price, but as expected the short spike below the orange line was followed by a steady consolidation just above it.  The spike was just people panicking and getting out at the last moment.  We may get another drop soon, but for now, we're hung up at this support level.

I usually don't trade when volume is so thin like this.  I would love for us to get a 1D double bottom so I can grab another good-sized short before buying back in.

----------


## muh_roads

> No support area or trend line can exactly predict the price, but as expected the short spike below the orange line was followed by a steady consolidation just above it.  The spike was just people panicking and getting out at the last moment.  We may get another drop soon, but for now, we're hung up at this support level.
> 
> I usually don't trade when volume is so thin like this.  I would love for us to get a 1D double bottom so I can grab another good-sized short before buying back in.


1H looks good for a possible scalp.

4H looks like the start of dewm, maybe...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 1H looks good for a possible scalp.
> 
> 4H looks like the start of dewm, maybe...


Here's another idea I found intriguing.  We may see another run-up before one final push to end the bear market.  First, though, I'm expecting at least $220s.

----------


## presence

I made some progress w/ my 6 SAR script this evening:




Currently testing 37X BTC Oct 2011 to present...

Its currently holding USD

----------


## muh_roads

> Here's another idea I found intriguing.  We may see another run-up before one final push to end the bear market.  First, though, I'm expecting at least $220s.


There does seem to be a lot of resistance at 240 right now.  The timeline to reach 170 might be stretched out longer.

There is interest.  The CNN episode definitely had an impact I think.

If the whale $#@!ery based on what 4x says can take it from 170 to 450, that would get more people interested in playing again, creating new support levels.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

During the boredom, at least the transactions are still trending in the right direction.
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-tra...ale=0&address=

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*BitBeat: For Bitcoin, Some Good Press, Finally*




> - This is not your father’s “Got Milk” ad campaign.
> 
> Bitcoin, the six-year-old fledgling cryptocurrency with an image problem, will be getting a makeover.  Unless you’re familiar with social-media stars like Julia Kelly, Jorden Keith, and Acacia Brinley, though, it’s going to be an ad campaign unlike any you’re used to.
> 
> *A consortium of bitcoin insiders, including the Bitcoin Foundation, BitFury, BitGo and Tally Capital, hired avante garde ad agency TheAudience to rebuild the currency’s reputation among the general public. The goal is pretty standard: highlight bitcoin’s positive aspects – its potential to help the “unbanked,” for instance* – and get people to forget about Mt. Gox and Silk Road.
> 
> “*We need to highlight the opportunity of bitcoin, we need to educate people on what it is*,” said Oliver Luckett, the firm’s CEO, sounding as passionate about it as any bitcoin evangelist. What’s different is how the firm will go about achieving that goal.
> 
> There have been very brief efforts at bitcoin ads. BitPay, the merchant-services firm, bought a U.S. college football bowl sponsorship. The “Bitcoin Bowl” (the company boldly chose to use not its name but the currency’s) put the name before millions of sporting fans; the company ran ads during the game, too (which North Carolina State won, 34-27, over the University of Central Florida).
> ...


http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/...press-finally/

This seems really interesting and a great way to prime the pump for the next bull run if all goes well. The method sounds powerful.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

_The UpTake: As bitcoin struggles to catch on in the mainstream, Coinsetter is building the technology beneath it into the backbone of how Wall Street brokers make trades._




> Jaron Lukasiewicz's offices are in the heart of New York's financial district, and his clients are some of the most well-known institutional investors on Wall Street. Today he announced that his company, New York City-based Coinsetter, has unveiled Project Highline, a bitcoin-inspired technology that could change the way investors trade.
> 
> *"What Project Highline is basically doing is ripping out the current settlement rails that are used in prime brokerage and trade settlements, and instead we're replacing it with a more peer-to-peer type system based on the blockchain,"* Lukasiewicz, 29, who is the company's CEO and cofounder, said in a phone interview today.* "I don't think we're making brokerages unnecessary, I think we're making the intermediaries behind them unnecessary and I think we're making brokerages more transparent."*
> 
> *The trading tool is built on the technology underlying bitcoin  called the blockchain  which enables so-called "trustless" transactions between individuals without an intermediary. The Highline Project's "On-Blockchain Settlement" technology will allow clients who buy or sell bitcoin on the Coinsetter exchange to directly view their funds on the blockchain almost immediately after trades are executed.*


More...http://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/n...a-bitcoin.html

----------


## Dianne

> _The UpTake: As bitcoin struggles to catch on in the mainstream, Coinsetter is building the technology beneath it into the backbone of how Wall Street brokers make trades._
> 
> 
> 
> More...http://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/n...a-bitcoin.html


That's great information, thanks !!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This may last a while longer, but for those who want to catch a move, just watch the break of this triangle.  Obviously, I expect it to go down, but you never really know until it breaks, so it's not a matter of being right, but knowing when to act.  This will be a great opportunity either way.

https://www.tradingview.com/v/AkIvrZxT/

----------


## muh_roads

> This may last a while longer, but for those who want to catch a move, just watch the break of this triangle.  Obviously, I expect it to go down, but you never really know until it breaks, so it's not a matter of being right, but knowing when to act.  This will be a great opportunity either way.
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/AkIvrZxT/


So set descending buy orders down to 160 is what I see here.

Got an idea where to start?  220?  The high ones make for good scalpers to sell right away I figure when it bounces...

----------


## muh_roads

> _The UpTake: As bitcoin struggles to catch on in the mainstream, Coinsetter is building the technology beneath it into the backbone of how Wall Street brokers make trades._
> 
> 
> 
> More...http://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/n...a-bitcoin.html


Dude, that is $#@!ing win.  

Then I could more easily play the other markets that someone like 4x likes to cover.  GOOG, Brent Oil...etc...

Ameritrade & Scottrade need to upgrade to something like this.  Move in and out of stocks with BTC...lol...love it.

Overstock CEO needs to merge with this guy since he wanted to do the same thing, sorta...

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So set descending buy orders down to 160 is what I see here.
> 
> Got an idea where to start?  220?  The high ones make for good scalpers to sell right away I figure when it bounces...


I'm not pretending to know if the price is going to reverse at my target zone or just consolidate and keep going.  I'm not setting buy orders yet.

----------


## muh_roads

Pampin'

----------


## presence

volume leads price

----------


## presence

All the support is at Finex.  Stamp is weak.

----------


## muh_roads

So...it's a tarp...

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Chinese New Year over with and money flying into exchanges? I was watching the Red Wings and looked over to see ltc/btc tanking which had me puzzled. Looked at bitstamp and couldn't believe the breakout at this weird time. Wondering where this leads...

----------


## FSP-Rebel

perhaps

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## FSP-Rebel

Nevermind, just a pump - deflating atm.

----------


## amonasro

Whoa, nice breakout... one of those nights where you check the price and blink a couple times to make sure you don't have gunk in your eyes. Glad I kept my long open from $230.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Nevermind, just a pump - deflating atm.


You sure about that?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> You sure about that?


Guess not, just yoyo-ing instead. I was thinking w/ the looming showdown over the Marshall's coin auction that something like this wouldn't stand. Would be nice to finally be out of the woods for a change. Things feel a little differently this time.

----------


## muh_roads

This looks worth supporting now that it dumped a bit.  Maybe try to find the bottom of the current 15m MACD red wave down if you're playing...?

Who's in?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Guess not, just yoyo-ing instead. I was thinking w/ the looming showdown over the Marshall's coin auction that something like this wouldn't stand. Would be nice to finally be out of the woods for a change. Things feel a little differently this time.


You never really know.  I'm still holding.

----------


## Dianne

I'm still all in with litecoin waiting for the presence moon

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> It's been speculated that the latest couple of rises in the Bitcoin / USD market are simply "pumps and dumps". This looks unlikely to be the case to me...
> 
> The longest range measure of buying / selling momentum, the 1-Week MACD, is now in the process of crossing to the upside. This is now the 3rd completion of a corrective price movement there's been in the last year for the 1-week chart. Each such movement has exhibited successively less selling momentum than the previous one, with this last one being absolutely minimal.
> 
> Combined with the huge amount of industrial development that Bitcoin has seen during the last months, it's difficult to conclude anything other than that the market is now in a highly oversold condition and will soon start to re-couple with growth in fundamentals.






Thought this was an analysis I saw worth sharing. Comments or critiques?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm still all in with litecoin waiting for the presence moon


The presence moon doesn't seem to be present.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thought this was an analysis I saw worth sharing. Comments or critiques?


Where did it come from?

----------


## muh_roads

It's interesting looking at btc-e versus btcchina on the 15m.  Less players on btc-e breeds more nervous nellies and volatility.  All of the doji everywhere is kinda funny.

I wonder if it is proper to equate it to time travel.  btc-e versus btcchina is like looking at Bitcoin volume 2-3 years ago versus today.

----------


## champion_thedrinker

Big auction this week.  I wasn't following the charts very closely for the last couple auctions. I am assuming cheaper coins soon, just wondering what kind of track some of you guys think the price will ride and for how long/steep?

----------


## muh_roads

> Big auction this week.  I wasn't following the charts very closely for the last couple auctions. I am assuming cheaper coins soon, just wondering what kind of track some of you guys think the price will ride and for how long/steep?


They were both positive in the past.

The first auction after close that was won by Tim Draper took the price from 400's to almost 700.  It was that big leg up in the middle of the geometry last summer.

The second auction after close took the price from 320 to higher than 450. (edit: I may be confusing this rally with the SR2.0 takedown rally)

----------


## presence

*Bitcoin Investment Trust Gets Finra’s OK to Become Public Bitcoin Fund*http://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-investment-trust-gets-finras-ok-to-become-public-bitcoin-fund-1425242094

----------


## presence

Somebody is pumping Bitfinex with a 1000 BTC guassian stacked on the buy margin.  Some mighty sexy mighty badass botwork

----------


## amonasro

> Somebody is pumping Bitfinex with a 1000 BTC guassian stacked on the buy margin.  Some mighty sexy mighty badass botwork


You know you're a crypto trading nerd when you throw around terms like "gaussian stacked buy orders". Admittedly, I had to look that one up

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Next stop 34K BTC!

----------


## muh_roads

> Next stop 34K BTC!


If that news brings buys, realistically, probably a new leg up to 1900-2000 BTC/CNY

Currently 1630

----------


## muh_roads

> *Bitcoin Investment Trust Gets Finra’s OK to Become Public Bitcoin Fund*
> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-...und-1425242094


They are really dragging their feet on the Winklevoss fund.  I wanna see COIN on Nasdaq.

So will we see BIT on Nasdaq?  How will Barry's be listed?  His is more of a mutual fund?

----------


## presence

> *Bitcoin Investment Trust Gets Finra’s OK to Become Public Bitcoin Fund*
> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-...und-1425242094



$#@! a bunch of web magazine paywalls:




Bitcoin Investment Trust Gets Finra’s OK to Become Public Bitcoin Fund
Fund has been racing against rival offering from Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss
Michael J. Casey
Updated March 1, 2015 5:04 p.m. ET


Barry Silbert’s Bitcoin Investment Trust is poised to become the first publicly traded bitcoin fund, with approval and assignment of a ticker symbol by the financial industry’s main self-regulatory body paving the way for trading on an electronic platform operated by OTC Markets Group .

The BIT, which was first launched in 2013 as a private fund for accredited investors with annual incomes greater than $200,000 or assets of more than $1 million, has been racing against a rival offering by twins Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, best known for their lawsuit against Facebook Inc. Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg .

While the competing Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust is going through a lengthy Securities and Exchange Commission process to register a formal exchange-traded fund, the BIT has taken a backdoor route to public listing. By exploiting a rule that allows holders of a private fund to sell their shares publicly after a 12-month lockup period and completing a less arduous approval process with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, some of those long-held shares in BIT should soon be available to investors of any income or wealth bracket. The BIT is sponsored by Grayscale Investments, a unit of Mr. Silbert’s Digital Currency Group, which he established last year to hold the digital currency interests of his broker-dealer SecondMarket Inc.

The creation of a publicly traded bitcoin investment vehicle is seen as an important milestone for the digital currency’s bid for mainstream acceptance. Bitcoin advocates hope that regulated instruments will encourage a wider investment base as investors will no longer need to own bitcoin directly, which can expose them to hacking risks. Those same enthusiasts hope that more liquid trading will help smooth bitcoin’s notoriously volatile price and thus make the digital currency more appealing for online payments and value transfers.

Neither Tyler nor Cameron Winklevoss was immediately available for comment. In the past they have argued that their offering will be superior to the Digital Currency Group’s because investors will want the full imprimatur of the SEC before buying an ETF-like vehicle. Without SEC approval, Mr. Silbert’s fund can’t be formally classified as an ETF, but once existing shares are offered publicly it will function very much like one.

As of Sunday, BIT shares were being cited under the temporary ticker symbol BTCV on OTC Markets’ “pink sheets” site, which includes over-the-counter offerings from companies with limited information disclosure. Price quotes are being supplied by Merriman Capital, which has been given a 30-day exclusive status to function as the fund’s initial market maker.

Mr. Silbert said Finra granted its request for a permanent ticker symbol, GBTC, and that “is expected to be effective shortly.” He said Grayscale is also separately “working through the approval process to enable the BIT’s shares to be quoted under the Alternative Reporting Standards on OTCQX, the top marketplace operated by OTC Markets Group.” That top-tier marketplace holds issuers to significantly higher standards of disclosure than is required for its pink sheet listings.

It is unclear how much secondary trading there will be in the BIT’s publicly listed shares. Any new shares, which are generated whenever Grayscale purchases bitcoins, can be sold only to wealthy, accredited investors. The size of the secondary market float will depend on how many early investors take advantage of the expiry of the lockup period to sell.

In a statement, the Digital Currency Group said, “Although we have been assigned a ticker symbol, no assurances can be given as to when or if such trading will commence, or that an active public secondary market for BIT shares will develop or be maintained.”
Many investors who purchased their shares at the BIT’s launch in the fall of 2013, when bitcoin’s price was around $100, have an incentive to sell. Even though bitcoin’s price is well down from its peak around $1,150 in early December of that year, at the current $247 price quoted by news site Coindesk, those early investors have a chance to realize a healthy profit. The Digital Currency Group is also allowed to offer a limited amount of its proprietary shares to the public, which would encourage the development of the secondary market.

Each share of BIT is worth approximately one-tenth of a bitcoin. As of Friday, the trust’s net asset value stood at $24.43 per share.

----------


## muh_roads

> $#@! a bunch of web magazine paywalls:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin Investment Trust Gets Finras OK to Become Public Bitcoin Fund
> Fund has been racing against rival offering from Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss
> Michael J. Casey
> Updated March 1, 2015 5:04 p.m. ET
> ...

----------


## fatjohn

Presence, did badger already go bull?

----------


## presence

> Presence, did badger already go bull?


Yes holding BTC.  Logging 450 hour panic hold against short trading unless major turn down.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger Bare Bones (no fancy logic) vs Apple Stock:

----------


## muh_roads

The way tradewave connects to coinsetter is weird.  It's like going thru the front door.  It wants your username and password instead of the API.

Sucks that it doesn't use the API, therefore my new member discount is $100 instead of $500

----------


## muh_roads

The symbol will be GBTC.

----------


## presence

> The way tradewave connects to coinsetter is weird.  It's like going thru the front door.  It wants your username and password instead of the API.
> 
> Sucks that it doesn't use the API, therefore my new member discount is $100 instead of $500



Contact coinsetter support. In my experience, they will make that right.  I have an open line to the Jaron Lukasiewicz (CEO) if you have issues; send me email or pm and I'll forward.

----------


## zeMan

I'm feeling like this could be the start of a new bull market. If we break the longterm downtrend line in log scale, Wall Street bubble is on!

Hope you all got in long ago, probably too risky now.

https://www.tradingview.com/v/cO3KhRYh/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm feeling like this could be the start of a new bull market. If we break the longterm downtrend line in log scale, Wall Street bubble is on!
> 
> Hope you all got in long ago.
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/v/cO3KhRYh/


I'm not entirely convinced yet, but I am holding long for now since $260.  If we run up really quickly (parabolic) into the $300s, then I'll start selling.  After that, I'm expecting a retrace kind of like the last one and then we'll see if it pushes lower after that or makes another run and confirms the bull market.

----------


## fatjohn

I hope it goes to infinity.

If it goes to infinity, I probably stand to make infinity money.

----------


## presence

> Contact coinsetter support. In my experience, they will make that right.  I have an open line to the Jaron Lukasiewicz (CEO) if you have issues; send me email or pm and I'll forward.


hmmm... second thought on that... I'm noticing all the ads are no longer $500 for automated traders and $100 for everyone else... they just say $100 for automated traders now.  

Seems you might have missed the boat.

----------


## zeMan

I sent the email for the 500$ offer when they were still offering it, and he wrote me back today basically saying "sorry, its $100 now" even though that $500 ad was still up when I sent the email. I call bull$#@!, I went through all the trouble of getting registered, signed up for tradewave paid membership, etc, so whatever. I guess I won't be trading on that exchange. Crap liquidity anyway.

----------


## Dianne

I am so fed up with crypto's ..   I swear no one knows chit about them.    I'm just holding in fiat, gonna buy btc if it drops a bit again and move to wallet; then never opening this thread again lol.

----------


## presence

> I sent the email for the 500$ offer when they were still offering it, and he wrote me back today basically saying "sorry, its $100 now" even though that $500 ad was still up when I sent the email. I call bull$#@!, I went through all the trouble of getting registered, signed up for tradewave paid membership, etc, so whatever. I guess I won't be trading on that exchange. Crap liquidity anyway.


sucks.  I do know up until a few days ago; and all last month, people were getting the $500 account credit.

----------


## presence

> I am so fed up with crypto's ..   I swear no one knows chit about them.    I'm just holding in fiat


That sucks too.  I'm still mostly in LTC and I'll hold that position long.  The rest BTC; honeybadger is logging 425 hour panic hold; which means most short trading decision classes are shut down.

----------


## PaulConventionWV



----------


## muh_roads

> *Bitfinex Audit Information*            You have not been included in the last audit process


They have an "audit" button.  wat?

----------


## btcltc

Why are there still people lingering btc threads and the troll box. There is no volatility its impossible to make anyting anymore

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Why are there still people lingering btc threads and the troll box. There is no volatility its impossible to make anyting anymore


No volatility?  What are you talking about?  Volatility is coming back!

----------


## btcltc

> No volatility?  What are you talking about?  Volatility is coming back!


I checked the PPC/NMC /USD chart to one month back and there has been barely any change.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I checked the PPC/NMC /USD chart to one month back and there has been barely any change.


I meant bitcoin.  I don't waste time on the $#@!coins.

----------


## muh_roads

Kinda looks like a double-top on the 4H.

----------


## muh_roads

Anyone got some "falling knife" advice?  I'm thinking of setting a spread of descending limit orders.

----------


## fatjohn

Don't try to catch it.

----------


## muh_roads

> Don't try to catch it.


I've been sorta quiet but the most recent run was great.  I bought and sold twice with my descending and ascending order strat I posted a couple pages back.  I could've hit it a 3rd time, the most recent time, but I decided to sit that one out.

----------


## presence

> Anyone got some "falling knife" advice?  I'm thinking of setting a spread of descending limit orders.


if the market is bear, and 12h ma2 < 12h ma90;

if 12h ma2 < 0.75* 12h ma55

catch the knife; hold minimum 12 hours after ma2 > .75*ma55


15 instances; +/- 20% average gain since jan 2012

----------


## presence

Ultra low frequency 
           6 SAR Harmonica Open Source recently Bought
  [2014-11-15 09:00:00] D-Stroy
[2014-11-15 09:00:00]  SELL: 2.63492783 BTC (at 378.667 USD)
[2015-03-03 15:00:00] ARMY
[2015-03-03 15:00:00]  BUY: 3.59612963 BTC (at 276.899 USD)
*36.6% BTC GAIN*


https://tradewave.net/strategy/yAQIvxLfgg/editor


IMAGE FROM MY PERSONAL 'DIRTY DUTCH' TUNE WHICH ALSO EXECUTED THE SAME LAST TWO TRADES:

----------


## muh_roads

Been running the 80x version of HB with a throw-away amount.  coinsetter has yet to give the $100 despite emailing them twice...thinking HB needs to make a trade first?




> [2015-03-02 20:57:07] Starting...
> [2015-03-02 20:57:10] Found existing storage containing 30 keys.
> [2015-03-02 20:57:10] >> *Starting portfolio:*
> [2015-03-02 20:57:10] >> [0.10423516 BTC]
> [2015-03-02 20:58:00] 0
> [2015-03-03 20:58:00] 1
> [2015-03-04 20:58:00] 2
> [2015-03-05 20:58:00] 3


The 6 SAR Harmonica sold in November and sat still until now?  That's strange.

Nice beats in that video.  You need a bot called cthulhu.  




When he sells, he sleeps.  When he buys, he dreams (of the bankers losing their power)

----------


## presence

> Been running the 80x version of HB with a throw-away amount.  coinsetter has yet to give the $100 despite emailing them twice...thinking HB needs to make a trade first?


send me a pm with your user name there, I'll contact Jaron for you





> The 6 SAR Harmonica sold in November and sat still until now?  That's strange.


Yes.  The bot, as released freeware, is designed mostly to divide the long chart up in to managable segments.  Each is classified and could be later subdivided again.  It has made only 16 trades in the past 2 years.   I'm building code to trade each subsection for an upcoming commercial release; hopefully towards April/May.  This is the same way I began the Honey Badger project; but here I'm using a SAR mesh instead of several long MA's.  




> Nice beats in that video.  You need a bot called cthulhu.


I dig it.   Next major brainstorm.  I have a MACD / Bollinger Band script I've been mulling.


6 SAR was built under the influence of Turkish Electro House Music and while watching Arabian Nights:

All the logs are either quotes from Arabian Nights, names of Turkish House DJ's or tracks, or when selling... reference well known scams

                    log('%s Arabian Nights' % int(rest))
                    log('We`ll continue after I`ve had my rest')
                    log('Until then the silk road')
                    log('will fulfill your requirements')

log('Oyle Bir Gecer Zaman Ki')
                log('Uzun Ince Bir Yoldayim') 


                    log('I`m Nigerian Princess Zubaru Zalani')
                    log('Send Money Order to Inherit Your Fortune')

log('Tony76 says `release funds immediately`')

----------


## ronmartin13

Is there a way I can purchase LTC without going through BTC first?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Is there a way I can purchase LTC without going through BTC first?


You would have to hook up a bank account to an exchange.  Bitfinex and BTC-e can do it, but you have to give them your bank info if you really don't want to go through BTC first.

----------


## dannno

> Is there a way I can purchase LTC without going through BTC first?


I don't think there is an easier or cheaper way.

----------


## kpitcher

https://www.snapcard.io/wallet supposedly allows you to buy btc, ltc and doge with a CC.  I got an email asking me to sign up, I had used them in the past when they were doing the 'buy anything anywhere with bitcoin' service.

----------


## presence

> You need a bot called cthulhu.


By request.  Open Source.  






```
# Bollinger Bands Mean Reversion v3.0 
''' CALL OF CHTULHU '''
# litepresence

# with rolling max drawdown

######################################################
# Sail with Caution:  Chtulu Will Eat You!
######################################################
DEPTH = 2
MA_PERIOD = 40
STD_PERIOD = 40
THRESHOLD_1 = 20.00
THRESHOLD_2 = 1.000
THRESHOLD_3 = 1.000
THRESHOLD_4 = 1.000
THRESHOLD_5 = 1.000
THRESHOLD_6 = 1.000
THRESHOLD_7 = 1.000
THRESHOLD_8 = 2.000
THRESHOLD_9 = 2.000
MIN_WIDTH = False
MAX_DRAW = False
######################################################
######################################################
######################################################

def initialize():
    storage.invested = False
    storage.hold = storage.get('hold', False)
    storage.trades = storage.get('trades', 0)
    storage.order_fee = storage.get('order_fee', 0)

def tick():
    
    # build fresh arrays on each tick
    ma = []
    std = []
    upper = []
    lower = []
    width = []
    price = []
    for n in range(DEPTH):
        ma.append(0)        
        std.append(0)
        price.append(0)
        upper.append(0)
        lower.append(0)
        width.append(0)
    for n in range(DEPTH):
        ma[-n] = (data[info.primary_pair][-n].ma(STD_PERIOD))        
        std[-n] = (data[info.primary_pair][-n].std(MA_PERIOD))
        price[-n] = (float(data[info.primary_pair][-n].close))
    for n in range(DEPTH):
        upper[-n] = (ma[-n] + (Decimal(2) * std[-n]))
        lower[-n] = (ma[-n] - (Decimal(2) * std[-n]))
    for n in range(DEPTH):    
        width[-n] = (float(upper[-n] - lower[-n]))        

    # check arrays
    if info.tick == 5:
        log('std')
        for n in range(DEPTH):
            log('%.2f %s' % (std[-n], -n))
        log('ma')
        for n in range(DEPTH):    
            log('%.2f %s' % (ma[-n], -n))
        log('upper')
        for n in range(DEPTH):    
            log('%.2f %s' % (upper[-n], -n))
        log('lower')
        for n in range(DEPTH):    
            log('%.2f %s' % (lower[-n], -n))
        log('width')      
        for n in range(DEPTH):    
            log('%.2f %s' % (width[-n], -n))
        log('price')
        for n in range(DEPTH):    
            log('%.2f %s' % (price[-n], -n))

    min_width = float(min(upper)-max(lower))
    
    if MIN_WIDTH:
        diff = (width[0] - min_width) / (min_width + 0.000001)        
    else:
        diff = (width[0] - width[-1]) / (width[-1] + 0.000001)

    if diff > 1:
        diff = 1
        
    # PRICE IS CHANNELED:    
    
    # ENTER if price is 2 standard deviations BELOW moving average
    # EXIT if price is 2 standard deviations ABOVE moving average
    
    threshold = (float(DEPTH)/float(THRESHOLD_1))

    if diff < threshold:
      if storage.hold == False:    
        if THRESHOLD_2*price[0] < lower[0] and not storage.invested:
            log('Buy Channel')            
            order = buy(info.primary_pair)
            storage.invested = True
            storage.hold = False
            storage.trades += 1
            storage.order_fee += (
                order.fee.to_float() * float(order.price))
        
      if storage.hold == False:                 
        if THRESHOLD_3*price[0] > upper[0] and storage.invested:
            log('Sell Channel')
            order = sell(info.primary_pair)
            storage.invested = False
            storage.hold = False
            storage.trades += 1
            storage.order_fee += order.fee.to_float()

    # PRICE IS TRENDING:
    
    # If CHANNEL opens, ENTER and HOLD if price is ABOVE moving average
    # If CHANNEL opens, EXIT and HOLD if price is BELOW moving average 

    else:

        if (THRESHOLD_4*price[0] > ma[0]) and not storage.invested:
            log('Buy Breakout')            
            order = buy(info.primary_pair)
            storage.invested = True
            storage.hold = True
            storage.trades += 1
            storage.order_fee += (
                order.fee.to_float() * float(order.price))
        if (THRESHOLD_5*price[0] < ma[0]) and storage.invested:
            log('Sell Breakout')            
            order = sell(info.primary_pair)
            storage.invested = False        
            storage.hold = True
            storage.trades += 1
            storage.order_fee += order.fee.to_float()

    # TREND IS ENDING:
    
    # If HOLDING FIAT trend, ENTER if price is ABOVE moving average
    # If HOLDING BTC trend, EXIT if price is BELOW moving average    

    if storage.hold == True:            
        if not storage.invested:
            if THRESHOLD_6*price[0] > ma[0]:
                log('Buy Bottom')                
                order = buy(info.primary_pair)
                storage.invested = True
                storage.hold = False
                storage.trades += 1
                storage.order_fee += (
                    order.fee.to_float() * float(order.price))
        elif storage.invested:
            if THRESHOLD_7*price[0] < ma[0]: 
                log('Sell Top')                
                order = sell(info.primary_pair)
                storage.invested = False
                storage.hold = False
                storage.trades += 1
                storage.order_fee += order.fee.to_float()

    if info.tick % (3600/info.interval) == 0:
        plot('MA', ma[0])
        plot('Upper', upper[0])
        plot('Lower', lower[0])
        plot('diff', diff, secondary=True)
        plot('threshold', threshold, secondary=True)
        if info.tick == 0:
            plot('offset', 5, secondary=True)
            
    if MAX_DRAW:
        dd()
            
if MAX_DRAW:
    import time    
    ROLLING = 30 # days       
        
    def dd():
    
        if info.tick == 0:
            storage.start = time.time()    
        dd, storage.max_dd = max_dd(0)
        bnh_dd, storage.max_bnh_dd = bnh_max_dd(0)
        rolling_dd, storage.max_rolling_dd = max_dd(
            ROLLING*86400/info.interval)    
        rolling_bnh_dd, storage.max_rolling_bnh_dd = bnh_max_dd(
            ROLLING*86400/info.interval)
        
        plot('dd', dd, secondary=True)   
        plot('bnh_dd', bnh_dd, secondary=True)    
        plot('rolling_dd', rolling_dd, secondary=True)  
        plot('rolling_bnh_dd', rolling_bnh_dd, secondary=True)       
        
        plot('zero', 0, secondary=True)
        if info.tick == 0:
            plot('dd_floor', -200, secondary=True)
    
    def max_dd(rolling):
        
        port_value = float(portfolio.usd+portfolio.btc*data.btc_usd.price)
        max_value = 'max_value_' + str(rolling)
        values_since_max = 'values_since_max_' + str(rolling)
        max_dd = 'max_dd_' + str(rolling)
        storage[max_value] = storage.get(max_value, [port_value])
        storage[values_since_max] = storage.get(values_since_max, [port_value])
        storage[max_dd] = storage.get(max_dd, [0])
        storage[max_value].append(port_value)    
        if port_value > max(storage[max_value]):
            storage[values_since_max] = [port_value]
        else:
            storage[values_since_max].append(port_value)
        storage[max_value] = storage[max_value][-rolling:]
        storage[values_since_max] = storage[values_since_max][-rolling:]    
        dd = -100*(max(storage[max_value]) - storage[values_since_max][-1]
            )/max(storage[max_value])
        storage[max_dd].append(float(dd))
        storage[max_dd] = storage[max_dd][-rolling:]
        max_dd = min(storage[max_dd])
    
        return (dd, max_dd)
      
    def bnh_max_dd(rolling):
        
        coin = data.btc_usd.price
        bnh_max_value = 'bnh_max_value_' + str(rolling)
        bnh_values_since_max = 'bnh_values_since_max_' + str(rolling)
        bnh_max_dd = 'bnh_max_dd_' + str(rolling)    
        storage[bnh_max_value] = storage.get(bnh_max_value, [coin])
        storage[bnh_values_since_max] = storage.get(bnh_values_since_max, [coin])
        storage[bnh_max_dd] = storage.get(bnh_max_dd, [0]) 
        storage[bnh_max_value].append(coin)
        if coin > max(storage[bnh_max_value]):
            storage[bnh_values_since_max] = [coin]        
        else:
            storage[bnh_values_since_max].append(coin)
        storage[bnh_max_value] = storage[bnh_max_value][-rolling:]        
        storage[bnh_values_since_max] = storage[bnh_values_since_max][-rolling:]  
        bnh_dd = -100*(max(storage[bnh_max_value]) - storage[bnh_values_since_max][-1]
            )/max(storage[bnh_max_value])
        storage[bnh_max_dd].append(float(bnh_dd))
        storage[bnh_max_dd] = storage[bnh_max_dd][-rolling:]    
        bnh_max_dd = min(storage[bnh_max_dd])    
        return (bnh_dd, bnh_max_dd)    
       
 
def stop():
    

    if MAX_DRAW:
        # MAX DRAW DOWN
        #########################
        
        log('ELAPSED TIME: %.1f sec' % (time.time() - storage.start))
        log('MAX DD......: %.2f pct' % storage.max_dd)
        log('R MAX DD....: %.2f pct' % storage.max_rolling_dd)
        log('MAX BNH DD..: %.2f pct' % storage.max_bnh_dd)
        log('R MAX BNH DD: %.2f pct' % storage.max_rolling_bnh_dd)               


    
    log('Total Trades.: %s' % storage.trades)
    log('Exchange.....: %s' % info.primary_exchange)
    log('Fee Percent..: %s' %
        fees[exchanges[str(info.primary_exchange)]][info.primary_pair]) 
    log('Fees Paid....: %.2f' % storage.order_fee)
    log('Fees Paid BTC: %.2f' % 
        (storage.order_fee/float(data[info.primary_pair].price)))
```

*
v3.0 Oct 1 through Mar 7 Open Source*
[2015-03-04 16:00:00]  SELL: 48.37389905 BTC (at 269.96 USD)
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] Total Trades.: 104
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] Exchange.....: btce
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] Fee Percent..: 0.002
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] Fees Paid....: 2173.4412192
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] >> [10000.00 USD]
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] >> [13032.89975264 USD]
[2015-03-07 12:00:00] >> Profit: 3032.89975264 


*v3.0 Personal Tune*
[2015-03-04 16:00:00]  SELL: 55.76185134 BTC (at 269.96 USD)
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] Total Trades.: 114
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] Exchange.....: btce
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] Fee Percent..: 0.002
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] Fees Paid....: 2556.73
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] Fees Paid BTC: 9.47
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] >> [10000.00 USD]
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] >> [15023.36245109 USD]
[2015-03-07 11:00:00] >> Profit: 5023.36245109 


 30%  BNH  LOSS
50%  CASH GAIN
110% BTC  GAIN

~1 Trade every 36 hours



*v3.04 Released*

https://tradewave.net/strategy/yTtpSyggAH

----------


## btcltc

where do you guys see the btc going. up or down. when will we be hitting high numbers again

----------


## muh_roads

pres, Jaron got back to me.  Thanks man.  

Can't PM you, says your inbox is full.  Talk to Bryan and he should be able to expand you.

----------


## Crashland

It looks like it really wants to go up. It will take a lot more though before I'm convinced the long downtrend is over.

----------


## presence

Bitfinex flirting with $300 BTC; BTCe over $2.03 on LTC

----------


## Crashland

Now all we need is another 2008 stock market crash and Bitcoin moons

----------


## presence

*Quintessential Behavior of Cthulhu:*



1) Price touches bottom of channel; BUY
2) Price touches top of channel; SELL
3) Channel opens; Price is above MA, BUY
4) Hold Trending until Price is below MA, SELL
5) Price touches bottom of channel, BUY
6) Price touches top of channel, SELL
7) Repeat 5
8) Repeat 6
9) Channel opens bearish after sale, wait until expansion stops then, BUY
10) Channel opens bullish after buy, wait until expansion stops then, SELL
11) Expansion continues, BUY and hold
12) Repeat 4

----------


## muh_roads

310-320 is the top of this wave IMO.  Thinking about pulling more out of cold storage.  I want that 80-130 scoop before a big phat run.

Need an animating gif of the tiny little BTC boat from the CNN show.  Owning those waves.

----------


## presence

> Need an animating gif of the tiny little BTC boat from the CNN show.  Owning those waves.


unfortunately CNN has scrubbed all instances from youtube, or I'd get  you one

----------


## presence

ha!

found a recent upload:

----------


## muh_roads

> ha!
> 
> found a recent upload:


lol, own those $#@!in' waves little boat.  Could do without the flipping...haha

Surprised there aren't more photoshops of this.

----------


## presence

90 DAY OUTLOOK

----------


## presence

This is seeded from current BTC candle price; so as its plotting the blue line it has no idea what the yellow line will do in the future.

Its adding brown noise, with an expanding sigma as price breaks out, competing against logarithmic loss.   

The goal is to build simulated "Bitcoin Bubbles".  To train botscript against.


This particular bubble popped up out of nowhere after clicking backtest about a dozen times.   Most of the time its not this exciting, with results commonly like this:





```
PAIR = info.primary_pair


SIG = 1 # Volatility float(0 to 2)
LOG = -0.1 # Percent daily loss/gain (-2 to 2)

import numpy as np
import math

def brown_noise(sig):

    storage.brown = storage.get('brown', 0)   
    storage.random_price = storage.get('random_price', data[PAIR].price)    

    if sig > 0:

        
        if storage.random_price > data[PAIR].price:
            sig = sig*storage.random_price/float(data[PAIR].price)
            
        storage.brown = storage.brown + np.random.normal(0, sig)
        
        return storage.brown
    else:
        return 0    

def tick():



    brown = brown_noise(SIG)    
    
    if float(data[PAIR].price) + brown > 0:
        storage.random_price = float(data[PAIR].price) + brown
    else:
        storage.random_price = float(data[PAIR].price) - brown
    storage.random_price = storage.random_price*math.pow(
    (1 + float(LOG)/float(100)), (info.tick*info.interval/86400))
  
    plot('random_price', storage.random_price)
```

----------


## presence

Trading 90/20 12h cross on simulated data
https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/addi...ce-chart/497/5

----------


## muh_roads

Using HB 80x on free Coinsetter funds to see how it works out...it made its first trade.  Maybe I should try cthulhu instead...

----------------------

[2015-03-09 21:05:08] Starting...
[2015-03-09 21:05:11] Found existing storage containing 32 keys.
[2015-03-09 21:05:11] >> *Starting portfolio:*
[2015-03-09 21:05:11] >> [500.00 USD, 0.10423516 BTC]
[2015-03-09 21:06:00] CRYPTO LONG
[2015-03-09 21:06:00] 0
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] CRYPTO LONG
[2015-03-10 21:06:00]  BUY: 1.7084575 BTC (at 291.93 USD)
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "291.93000000"
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] Start Date: 2015-03-10 02:05:12
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] Day: 1 Trades: 1 Frequency 1.0
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] USD 529.9 / 530.6 / 0.1 ROI
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] BTC 1.8 / 1.8 / -2.4 ROI
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] ***************************************
[2015-03-10 21:06:00] 1
[2015-03-10 22:05:56] *Order filled* for 1.7084575 BTC at 291.93000000, placed at 2015-03-11 02:06:05.708150.

-----------------------------

----------


## presence

I made HUGE PROGRESS in importing old LTCUSD data to tradewave this past week!

Import *.csv HLOCV to Backtest via Google Sheets


Previously Tradewave only had July 2014 to current LTCUSD data.  

I've since imported:

Nov 2011 to Oct 2012 @ 1Hz candles

Oct 2012 to Sept 2014 @ daily candles

Essentially TW now has backtest data for LTCUSD for "long bots" all the way back to the dawn of Litecoin.  




This opens doors to importing *.csv files for NASDAQ and S&P500 stocks (etc. etc. etc.) to Tradewave for backtesting purposes.

I'm working on porting these over to the engine:



```
BEAR
------------------
RGSE    1/10th 2 year BEAR
RXII    1/6th 2 year BEAR
NEWL    epic loser BEAR
GEOS    1/5 double top BEAR
RYL     1/8 2006-2010
HW      1/10 2006-2010
PMTI    1/8th 2007-2009
ESI     1/10th Volatile BEAR 2010-2014

BULL
---------------------
BIIB    9x 3 year BULL
GMCR    7x BULL
QCOR    10x BULL
GPOR    7x BULL 2010-2014
DDD     15x 2010-2014
EBIX    10x 2006-2010
FSLR    10x Bubble 2007-2010
CLF     10x Bubble Epic Crash 2006-2009
PAY     10x 2009-2012 Double Top
CRUS    8x 2010-2013
PLCM    7x 2009-2012
MNST    15x 10 Year Bull

SHAKEOUT
------------------
TPX 1/2 fast shakeout
DECK 1/3th BEAR 3X BULL
```

Some highly volatile and *breakout prone stocks* I noted in today's research to keep an eye on:




```
AMRN  $2.90
CTIC  $1.97
GENE  $4.71
EBIX  $29.55
CRUS  $33.5
```

----------


## presence

A simple 90/10 12h cross played against LTCBTC pair for 7/2012 through 3/3015.


*= 8X BTC*

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/impo...-sheets/515/12




Now that I've created myself some backtest data, its time to build an LTCBTC bot

----------


## muh_roads

> This opens doors to importing *.csv files for NASDAQ and S&P500  stocks (etc. etc. etc.) to Tradewave for backtesting purposes.


I'm mostly going to focus on BTC, but after another giant run up, whenever that happens, I'd like to try more markets for sure.

Who was the guy that beat the Overstock CEO to announcing a working NASDAQ compatible with crypto?  Soon we'll get to trade GOOG/BTC...love it.  No longer just GOOG/USD very soon...

Feel these nipples.

----------


## dannno

Chtulhu sold all my trading bitcoin

----------


## presence

> Chtulhu sold all my trading bitcoin


as released open source, it trades every 24 to 36 hours via backtest

----------


## presence

*LTCBTC July 2012 to current 
40X BTC*

----------


## dannno

> as released open source, it trades every 24 to 36 hours via backtest


Ok as long as it will buy me more later

----------


## muh_roads

http://www.coindesk.com/inside-whale...rice-declines/

The Willy bot will probably be turned back on again in the low 100's.  These guys want cheap coin.  Which is probably good for everyone.

----------


## presence

Update on Honey Badger Enterprise 

Customer Reported Live Trading Average Hard Coded with Timestamps:

Includes % Max Draw Down and % Buy and Hold MaxDD



Waiting...
Saved successfully.
[2014-12-11 08:00:00] 1418300000
[2014-12-11 08:00:00]  SELL: 1.00 BTC (at 349.00 USD)
[2014-12-18 18:00:00] 1424350400
[2014-12-18 18:00:00]  BUY: 1.11635256 BTC (at 312.00 USD)
[2014-12-21 20:00:00] 1424056000
[2014-12-21 20:00:00]  SELL: 1.11411985 BTC (at 322.00 USD)
[2015-01-13 22:00:00] 1423958400
[2015-01-13 22:00:00]  BUY: 1.74648341 BTC (at 205.00 USD)
[2015-01-25 12:00:00] 1422200800
[2015-01-25 12:00:00]  SELL: 1.74299044 BTC (at 249.00 USD)
[2015-02-14 20:00:00] 1421200000
[2015-02-14 20:00:00]  BUY: 1.69857494 BTC (at 255.00 USD)
[2015-02-16 00:00:00] 1419206400
[2015-02-16 00:00:00]  SELL: 1.69517779 BTC (at 230.00 USD)
[2015-02-19 08:00:00] 1418936800
[2015-02-19 08:00:00]  BUY: 1.62807996 BTC (at 239.00 USD)
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] ***********************************
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] start date: 2014-12-11 05:00:00
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] start BTC value: 1.00
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] start USD value: 348.00
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] end BTC value: 1.62
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] end USD value: 456.58
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] trades 8
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] days 96.00
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] frequency 12.00 days/trade
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] ROI_assets 1.62X
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] ROI_currency 1.31X
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] ROI_BNH 0.81X
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] ELAPSED TIME: 16.6 sec
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] MAX DD......: -23.56 pct
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] MAX BNH DD..: -52.96 pct
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] >> [1.00 BTC]
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] >> [8.5E-7 USD, 1.6248238 BTC]
[2015-03-17 21:00:00] >> Profit: 108.5787383 USD (estimated)

ROI Actual Honey Badger
Backtesting
2014-12-11 00:00:00 to 2015-03-18 00:00:00

----------


## amonasro

Any update on Honey Badger with this latest dip?

----------


## muh_roads

> Any update on Honey Badger with this latest dip?


80x freeware is still holding what it bought at 291.  Glad it's not my $500...lol

----------


## muh_roads

> 80x freeware is still holding what it bought at 291.  Glad it's not my $500...lol


BTW pres, I'm not trying to attack you.  The RPF community around here seems to think we aren't transparent enough.  So I want to be transparent.

How much for Enterprise?

----------


## muh_roads

Paul, what are your thoughts on the recent down action?

----------


## amonasro

> 80x freeware is still holding what it bought at 291.  Glad it's not my $500...lol


Cool, thanks. Not surprising as it took a strong trend to trigger Spank when I watched it last summer. Sometimes it would catch it too late and get whipsawed, but the significant moves it did catch made up for those.

----------


## squarepusher

eerie silence!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Paul, what are your thoughts on the recent down action?


Will most likely continue.

----------


## muh_roads

> Will most likely continue.


Just wondering if you were playing any bounces.  Dunn said 260 would be a good bounce, but we blew past that to high 240's.

I seen this morning you took a shakeout loss, but then I think it went back up higher...

----------


## muh_roads

> Just wondering if you were playing any bounces.  Dunn said 260 would be a good bounce, but we blew past that to high 240's.
> 
> I seen this morning you took a shakeout loss, but then I think it went back up higher...


Aaaaand, it looks like you were right for getting out.  back down again...lol

EDIT: and back up...she's getting really volatile now...

----------


## presence

> Any update on Honey Badger with this latest dip?


HB Enterprise has held and will likely continue holding.  Here is a comparison of the past 3 months versus a very similar three month period in July 2013.  You can see the fractaline geometry and resultant trade logic have much in common.  




Here is An image showing actual average customer reported trades and approximate returns:




Images may extend off of page; right click "view image" to see full version.

----------


## presence

> How much for Enterprise?


I keep customer reported average trades posted here:

https://tradewave.net/strategy/BnplZAgHKS

You can purchase through the marketplace here:

https://tradewave.net/marketplace/litepresence

Leases are scaled to equity requirements and have recently been reduced to 90 day terms.





> eerie silence!

----------


## amonasro

After catching a quick short, I went long a couple days ago. Selling power in this market has been markedly weak, and even though everyone's calling for low 200s, I see little volume to get us there.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

If anyone wants to chime in, I'm looking to get opinions about Rand's upcoming announcement that he's running for Prez from Crypto-folks. Not trying to derail your thread Pres but I'm hoping you'll say your piece as well. Of course, keep the speculation running along these similar lines.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> If anyone wants to chime in, I'm looking to get opinions about Rand's upcoming announcement that he's running for Prez from Crypto-folks. Not trying to derail your thread Pres but I'm hoping you'll say your piece as well. Of course, keep the speculation running along these similar lines.


I think it's fair to say that we're all pretty happy about it, considering that we're on RPF.

----------


## muh_roads

> If anyone wants to chime in, I'm looking to get opinions about Rand's upcoming announcement that he's running for Prez from Crypto-folks. Not trying to derail your thread Pres but I'm hoping you'll say your piece as well. Of course, keep the speculation running along these similar lines.


He will most likely see a huge influx of donations if he announces he accepts BTC.

----------


## amonasro

> If anyone wants to chime in, I'm looking to get opinions about Rand's upcoming announcement that he's running for Prez from Crypto-folks. Not trying to derail your thread Pres but I'm hoping you'll say your piece as well. Of course, keep the speculation running along these similar lines.


I am supportive of Rand, but see him as more "establishment." It's not much of a problem for me, as Ron had to play the game to get anything done. 

If he showed positive support for cryptocurrencies as alternatives and competitors to fiat and metals he would gain support of a small (but growing) voting block. Politicians need to recognize that crypto markets are immature and the tech needs time to "grow up" in the same way that the internet did in the 90s, which means hands-off legislation and regulation. This also includes understanding it properly and its implications beyond currencies, which is a feat unto itself.

----------


## presence

By request for ZeMan
From the pinescript by LazyBear, xSilas, & Ni6HTH4wK
With port ft. lewk & aspiramedia


*GODMODE*
*v1.0 Genesis Device*
https://tradewave.net/strategy/ZREumjqzZc

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> He will most likely see a huge influx of donations if he announces he accepts BTC.


Hope so, I've been priming the pump over at bitcointalk about him for like a year now.

----------


## presence

This is "overfitted" to this window and doesn't trade profitably long...  but much potential

----------


## muh_roads

I'm getting itchy to buy back in after that last dump...

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## muh_roads

After that EO that Obama recently passed, I personally think it is best to diversify your cold storage and not keep it all in one place.  Xapo, for example has a cold storage vault outside of the US housed in a retired military bunker in the Swedish mountains.

The oligarchs and their door-kicking jackboots can go pound sand.  King Solomon said to spread your "gold" to all the far corners.

----------


## presence

_
Profit on $10000 invested 11/1/2014 to 3/7/2015
_
Depending on the offset to the hour Cthulu can have drastically different results.   I'm looking into spacing orders over the course of an hour rather than lump sum.  




https://tradewave.net/strategy/yTtpS...or/?granular=1

----------


## FSP-Rebel

So, are we officially looking at a full scale bloodbath between now and next week? Doom and gloom seems to be permeating the web over the lack of support being offered and the potential for this dumper(s) to keep shooting the market down. At some point (despair?) and if it comes to that, you'd think the shoot up would be pretty steep and almost no sellers left. Or, this could just be the last dump before a boring sideways movement til the next bit of good news in the market.

----------


## amonasro

> So, are we officially looking at a full scale bloodbath between now and next week? Doom and gloom seems to be permeating the web over the lack of support being offered and the potential for this dumper(s) to keep shooting the market down. At some point (despair?) and if it comes to that, you'd think the shoot up would be pretty steep and almost no sellers left. Or, this could just be the last dump before a boring sideways movement til the next bit of good news in the market.


There's not a lot of volume, and any future bloodbath is totally dependent on the floating supply that's hanging around. Whales know this--they need a following to go along with their dumps, and leveraged shorts are at an ATH _and_ there's no significant bad news. In fact it has been pretty good. I'm still of the belief that had we not seen the Bistamp hack, the market wouldn't have plunged to $166. That news was used very strategically to send the market into capitulation.

Today the relative volume is not great and has been gradually reducing each time market has tested the lows of the range (~$236). Because of this, there's a possibility that we are seeing a shakeout, which is a move that occurs near the end of a trading range to force out remaining supply. Sometimes it springs below it to trigger stops. If we close above the trading range in next day or so, then it will be confirmed. 

Shakeouts are used to remove selling from the market (in preparation of higher prices), build long positions by the smart money and give a false indication to retail traders that the market will move lower to build up shorts.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

If we spring below the trading range too much it's likely to squeeze the longs and run a cascading effect even further contributing to this socalled bloodbath and that's what I'm curious about. I like your thoughts, amonasro, and thank you for them.

----------


## presence

7/30 3d cross down on all exchanges today

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Time to bleed, better have extra fiat ready for this week's dive assuming we actually get it since current buying support isn't anything to write home about.

----------


## amonasro

> Time to bleed, better have extra fiat ready for this week's dive assuming we actually get it since current buying support isn't anything to write home about.


Yep, I got a long stopped out. Looks like this will test $200.

----------


## evilfunnystuff

I just went back into scoop mode again , got my big chunk @$220 even on Stamp.

I got some fiat waitin for 200ish again, dunno why but I have a gut feeling this may be about as low as she goes.

Disclaimer: I do not use or understand TA, I'm a hunch/feeling kinda guy

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm waiting for new lows.  I've been out since $290ish and took one small successful long and one small successful short since then. 

I should have seen the current breakdown trade, but I missed it.  I'm really cautious, but I still see a big short opportunity coming since we're still making lower lows, confirming the bear market, so it may be a good idea to short once it retraces upward and bumps up against daily resistance with a good risk/reward (which is what it's all about; go with the trend, establish risk vs. reward and you have a very good chance of making money).

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Well, China has eaten breakfast and is at the office right now, looks like they took the dumpage quite well so far. Is there a pulse in this thread or are people off in their bomb shelters?

----------


## amonasro

> Well, China has eaten breakfast and is at the office right now, looks like they took the dumpage quite well so far. Is there a pulse in this thread or are people off in their bomb shelters?


I'm considering a short position. The 3d MACD crossed red recently and the volume on the latest dump was alarming, which is why I stopped out my long. I'm angry for not getting out at the bull trap last week in profit, but live and learn. With no buying pressure this thing could get ugly fast with a big selling climax. Not sure about new lows. A strong rally could coincide with the trading of GBTC though, so it would be in the whales' interest to shake the market down again to the trading range lows with strong support $180-$200.

----------


## presence

> Is there a pulse in this thread or are people off in their bomb shelters?


Honey Badger has been in FIAT since 3/31/2015 @ 242



> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] start date: 2014-12-10 05:00:00
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] start BTC value: 1.00
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] start USD value: 346.00
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] end BTC value: 1.83
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] end USD value: 422.50
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] trades 11
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] days 124.00
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] frequency 11.27 days/trade
> [2015-04-13 09:00:00] ROI_assets 1.83X
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

220 breached.  210 is next.  High 170's by the end of the week IMO.  Would make a nice double bottom.  Not sure how far that will bounce though as this feels like it wants to shake out deeper.

In 6-12 weeks I think this bear market will finally be over.  Willy bot changed hands with pumpy stacking whales that could easily push this back up to 300-400.

----------


## presence

I see a 90 day price channel (250, 180) with minimal taper.  Excellent trading.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Interesting comment I read in regards to the ongoing turmoil taking place currently:



> Before Bitcoin grows up some professional interests need to take positions on the cheap. That's all it is. You wanted Wall Street, well they are here and shaking down the early adopter tree.

----------


## muh_roads

Bounced off 210.  Appears to be pampin'

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Seems like 223 was the ceiling atm, so not sure any positive retrace is gonna happen. Could chill for a while or keep nosediving in the near term. I'm saving fiat for whatever can come afterwards. If it rockets up and leaves my fiat dry, then so be it. I'll catch on with the upward move but this is unlikely for some time.

----------


## presence

> Bounced off 210.  Appears to be pampin'





> [2015-03-31 23:02:00] 3 RED DRAGON 242.66 (2.1)
> [2015-03-31 23:02:00] Approaching Subclass 3
> [2015-03-31 23:02:00] Dragon Class Unlimited
> [2015-03-31 23:02:00] (resistance and ma2) < (ma150 and ma90))
> [2015-03-31 23:02:00] ma150 slope is negative


Still subclass three.  Red Dragon.  Run away.  

+/- thresholds, there are only three reasons I choose to buy a Red Dragon:

12hMA2 < 75% of 12hMA55  "Purgatory" 

low < 65% of 12h55 "Bloody Waterfall"

(12hMA2 or resistance) > (12hMA90 or 12hMA150) "Honey"



--------------

MA55 is currently 248; Honey Badger is looking for MA2 at 186 (75%) or a low at 160 (65%) to buy a bottom. 

The min of MA90 an MA150 is currently 250; +/- that would be the immediate Honey stop loss of shares.

"Resistance" is generally slow moving and is currently $30 below min of MA90 or MA150; so its not currently a factor.



-------

My best guess is a purgatory buy, a week+ out, in the mid 180's

----------


## muh_roads

It has been down for quite a while, it should be due for a bounce here between 210-220...




I'm not sure if I believe in 260 yet.  But 240 seems possible from this point.  If it can clear 280 then bears have lost strength.

Looks like Paul has similar thoughts...

https://www.tradingview.com/v/R2m3kXa5/

----------


## presence

I can't help but feel the gravity of the 63.32 to 102 support;  That would put us at 178





Noteworthy, the tip of that orange line above is actually pointing uphill; that's  3dMA30... historically that is a STRONG bullish signal.  




However if you also plot 3d MA 28, 26, and 24... you can see that the faster moving averages are quickly reversing and turning downhill again.  This indicates that MA30 is also soon to do the same.    Also MA32, 34, 36+ are all still downhill; so its really somewhat of a fluke to see MA30 pointing up for this short period.    More of a hiccup than a trade worthy indication.   Still it does point that we're approaching the bottom of bottoms.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## muh_roads

> Still subclass three.  Red Dragon.  Run away.  
> 
> +/- thresholds, there are only three reasons I choose to buy a Red Dragon:
> 
> 12hMA2 < 75% of 12hMA55  "Purgatory" 
> 
> low < 65% of 12h55 "Bloody Waterfall"
> 
> (12hMA2 or resistance) > (12hMA90 or 12hMA150) "Honey"
> ...


PAMP!  Run TOWARDS!  For now.

In 1-2 weeks I think you'll be right though.

----------


## presence

> PAMP!  Run TOWARDS!  For now.
> 
> In 1-2 weeks I think you'll be right though.


I won't deny that you're on a support shelf here at 220, if  you bought 210 great... but I wouldn't enter at 224 last. 

The 30 day trend is down again.   Until the day comes that you see 100,000 BTC volume on stamp and finex, its good to sleep in FIAT.

----------


## muh_roads

> I won't deny that you're on a support shelf here at 220, if  you bought 210 great... but I wouldn't enter at 224 last. 
> 
> The 30 day trend is down again.   Until the day comes that you see 100,000 BTC volume on stamp and finex, its good to sleep in FIAT.


nah didn't nab 210, needed to wait for the breakout.  I'm in 218-220

But if Silbert's thing is ready to go, 260 could easily be happening.  The asses in control seem to know when news is gonna hit...

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Someone just helped themselves to about 6k coins on tha fin.

----------


## muh_roads

> Someone just helped themselves to about 6k coins on tha fin.


Insiders...lol

----------


## amonasro

> PAMP!  Run TOWARDS!  For now.
> 
> In 1-2 weeks I think you'll be right though.


Yeah careful there. After this last dump the market has been showing more and more signs of distribution which will push us lower as red volume is beginning to expand on the daily chart. Sometimes during distribution (where supply is in control of the market and buyers tentative) you'll see either big rallies that trick the market into filling asks (upthrusts, a single candle with big volume), or rallies that are destined to fail as volume peters out. The fact that volume didn't follow through after the big coin buy earlier today is fishy. 

Holders are beginning to get nervous again and sentiment is sinking. 3d MACD just crossed into red so more traders/bots will be bearish. Market will be ripe for a final shakeout if we don't rally strongly and soon.

Now when GBTC actually starts trading there should be a nice pump, probably to bring us out of $200s.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Still subclass three.  Red Dragon.  Run away.  
> 
> +/- thresholds, there are only three reasons I choose to buy a Red Dragon:
> 
> 12hMA2 < 75% of 12hMA55  "Purgatory" 
> 
> low < 65% of 12h55 "Bloody Waterfall"
> 
> (12hMA2 or resistance) > (12hMA90 or 12hMA150) "Honey"
> ...



I was mistaken there, looking at the wrong line on the chart for "Resistance" 

Price just crossed above resistance.  Honey Badger just bought



Last sold 242, just bought 225

----------


## presence

> Still subclass three.  Red Dragon.  Run away.  
> 
> +/- thresholds, there are only three reasons I choose to buy a Red Dragon:
> 
> 12hMA2 < 75% of 12hMA55  "Purgatory" 
> 
> low < 65% of 12h55 "Bloody Waterfall"
> 
> (12hMA2 or resistance) > (12hMA90 or 12hMA150) "Honey"
> ...



Ok so there was one other reason to buy a red dragon; slope of MA150 turns positive during a Red Dragon:

If MA150 turns positive while MA2 > MA90; that's a Honey Buy; Mode 4, Subclass 4
If MA150 turns positive while MA2 < MA90; that's a Crypto Long Buy; Mode 1, Subclass 1

In this case its Crypto Long, which includes... in this case... a 2 day "panic hold" to override short trading on non "Dragon Class Unlimited" Decisions. 

+/- MA150 would have to turn back to negative slope to rebuy in the next 2 days. 

Quite a bit of nested logic went into making this decision; in the end, Honey Badger holds crypto long when MA150 on 12h is positive... end of story...  well... unless unless unless.... but that's another tale for another day





> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma2 222.5875
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma3 221.8385
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma30 239.1749
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma55 244.0661
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma60 245.9974
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma90 257.0397
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] ma150 246.4430
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] maslope2 2.0220
> [2015-04-16 10:00:00] maslope3 2.6319
> ...




Last sold 242, just bought 225  7.5% gain in coins.




```
[2014-12-11 08:00:00] 1418300000
[2014-12-11 08:00:00]  SELL: 1.00 BTC (at 349.00 USD)
[2014-12-18 18:00:00] 1429146000
[2014-12-18 18:00:00]  BUY: 1.11635256 BTC (at 312.00 USD)
[2014-12-21 20:00:00] 1427842800
[2014-12-21 20:00:00]  SELL: 1.11411985 BTC (at 322.00 USD)
[2015-01-13 22:00:00] 1427256000
[2015-01-13 22:00:00]  BUY: 1.74648341 BTC (at 205.00 USD)
[2015-01-25 12:00:00] 1426996800
[2015-01-25 12:00:00]  SELL: 1.74299044 BTC (at 249.00 USD)
[2015-02-14 20:00:00] 1424350400
[2015-02-14 20:00:00]  BUY: 1.69857494 BTC (at 255.00 USD)
[2015-02-16 00:00:00] 1424056000
[2015-02-16 00:00:00]  SELL: 1.69517779 BTC (at 230.00 USD)
[2015-02-19 08:00:00] 1423958400
[2015-02-19 08:00:00]  BUY: 1.62807996 BTC (at 239.00 USD)
[2015-03-22 01:00:00] 1422200800
[2015-03-22 01:00:00]  SELL: 1.6248238 BTC (at 267.00 USD)
[2015-03-25 01:00:00] 1421200000
[2015-03-25 01:00:00]  BUY: 1.7528757 BTC (at 247.00 USD)
[2015-03-31 21:00:00] 1419206400
[2015-03-31 21:00:00]  SELL: 1.74936995 BTC (at 242.00 USD)
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] 1418936800
[2015-04-15 23:00:00]  BUY: 1.87778148 BTC (at 225.00 USD)
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] ***********************************
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] start date: 2014-12-10 05:00:00
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] start BTC value: 1.00
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] start USD value: 346.00
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] end BTC value: 1.87
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] end USD value: 419.78
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] trades 12
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] days 127.00
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] frequency 10.58 days/trade
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] ROI_assets 1.87X
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] ROI_currency 1.21X
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] ROI_BNH 0.65X
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] ELAPSED TIME: 25.8 sec
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] MAX DD......: -23.56 pct
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] MAX BNH DD..: -52.96 pct
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] >> [1.00 BTC]
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] >> [0.00000148 USD, 1.87402592 BTC]
[2015-04-15 23:00:00] >> Profit: 73.78180756 USD (estimated)
```

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Got in at $217-218.  Locked in profit by placing stops at $219 just below current breakout level.  Hopefully we'll see $260s soon.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> I can't help but feel the gravity of the 63.32 to 102 support;  That would put us at 178



I ALSO AM A RELIGIOUS MAN

----------


## presence

> I ALSO AM A RELIGIOUS MAN


perspicacious

----------


## presence

Do you think we trend upwards from here?

----------------------------------

"crypto long"  subclass more or less means that honey badger has no opinion on the  matter.  The entire premise of the badger is to find effective places to  short BTC for limited times under the assumption that you otherwise  hold long.     Its currently in "default" mode... hold crypto long.  It  didn't buy for any specific reason; there is no overtly bullish  sentiment; moreso all good reasons to get "moar coinz short" are simply  null.  


This said, the April 2013 bubble in a sense BEGAN  with crypto long buys on both 11/2/2012 and 11/15/2012  as MA150 was +/-  0 slope.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

28k+ shorts going and swap rates are a pittance, go figure.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

If GBTC starts trading on Monday, we could be in for a pump later on tomorrow evening. Just speculating of course.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger Folded again last night at 222.   

The slope of SMA150 on 12h is the deciding factor at the moment; its hovering at +/- zero.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Honey Badger Folded again last night at 222.   
> 
> The slope of SMA150 on 12h is the deciding factor at the moment; its hovering at +/- zero.


I'm just wondering how certain things are affected by unknown events that can and will be occurring down the line, including these ETFs creating demand and whatever else. I'm proceeding with caution in my small time trading approach while the rest is locked away.

----------


## presence

> I'm just wondering how certain things are affected by unknown events that can and will be occurring down the line, including these ETFs creating demand and whatever else. I'm proceeding with caution in my small time trading approach while the rest is locked away.


_The Market Discounts Everything 

_

_A  major criticism of technical analysis is that it only considers price movement, ignoring the fundamental factors of the company. However, technical analysis assumes that, at any given time, a stock's price reflects  everything that has or could affect the company - including fundamental  factors. Technical analysts believe that the company's fundamentals,  along with broader economic factors and market psychology, are all priced into the stock, removing the need to actually consider these factors separately. This only leaves the analysis of price movement, which technical theory views as a product of the supply and demand for a particular stock in the market. 
_

----------


## muh_roads

Set my spread orders to sell on the way up from 225 to 240.  Hit some of those crawling up to 230.  Bought back in @ 220.

First there was this...



Then this played out and followed...




Probability for 260 is still high.

----------


## muh_roads

Bulls still desire 260, but bears could take it to 214 first...sorry for not posting his update faster.

Follow him on twitter here...  https://twitter.com/4xForecaster

This idea was mentioned 7 hours ago.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Well that was interesting, someone got fed up w/ boredom and lit up the scene w/ some green.

----------


## muh_roads

I missed out because I got greedy wanting 214.  I should've stayed in.  This is one volatile mother right now.

----------


## newbitech

> I missed out because I got greedy wanting 214.  I should've stayed in.  This is one volatile mother right now.


been swinging on  216-220 for about 2 weeks now.  Targeting 250ish on the daily.  25% long, 75% dry powder.  Starting to feel like a big momentum shift.

Hoping to hit a trailing stop at 240 and lock in.  We'll see.  240 is gonna be tough cause we are at LOOOONNGG term down side trend resist, but again, looks like momentum to break it finally.

Also, notice the H&S I called a while back did make an appearance, just totally not with the metrics I described.  It failed.  Also nice counter trend rally on the daily, support building solidly in the 210-220 range.  Nice long term pivot I nailed that call, what years ago now

----------


## muh_roads

> been swinging on  216-220 for about 2 weeks now.  Targeting 250ish on the daily.  25% long, 75% dry powder.  Starting to feel like a big momentum shift.
> 
> Hoping to hit a trailing stop at 240 and lock in.  We'll see.  240 is gonna be tough cause we are at LOOOONNGG term down side trend resist, but again, looks like momentum to break it finally.
> 
> Also, notice the H&S I called a while back did make an appearance, just totally not with the metrics I described.  It failed.  Also nice counter trend rally on the daily, support building solidly in the 210-220 range.  Nice long term pivot I nailed that call, what years ago now


On the 1H I see 1 week, not 2.

Anywho, glad to see you are back.  I still think we're going to go sideways for a while...if you can call 100-300 swings "sideways".

----------


## newbitech

> On the 1H I see 1 week, not 2.
> 
> Anywho, glad to see you are back.  I still think we're going to go sideways for a while...if you can call 100-300 swings "sideways".


Well I started rolling over my position on the 9th.  I was trying to roll my shorts to accumulate at the bottom of H&S confirm, I started getting squeezed on the 10th and 11th, then it started looking like the H&S was gonna not confirm, so I liquidated and took my profit, but I kept the buy on to hedge at 50% from 230 down to 200.  It only made it halfway there so Im 25% long rest liquid.   

So it was a nice hedge bet, not as nice if I could have rolled my shorts and the H$S would have confirmed down to 160 target.  Oh well, Now I have 75% of trade liquidity sidelined in USD and looking for a good entry to leverage my hedge.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

What I've been hearing/reading is that some bearwhale of sorts got lynched earlier on a short margin call of 31k contracts @ roughly $100 a piece in the process of this mean green. After this recent sideways of boredom and massive short buildups, a bull(s) just sent a message to the bear community in a strong way so we'll see what happens. Luckily, yesterday I randomly bought w/ my play money and was pleasantly surprised that today payed off and continues to do so. Swap interest, in other news, is still weak as of late. I won't lend anymore at this peanut rate after getting double prior. Xapo had some news today but this market move could be congruent or independent of that news.

----------


## presence

> What I've been hearing/reading is that some bearwhale of sorts got lynched earlier on a short margin call of 31k contracts





> *Bitcoin Spikes $8 in Minutes on Margin Call*
> 
>                                                               By Petar Kotevski on Apr 21, 2015 11:59:29 GMT                                    
> 
> 
> 1
> 
> 
>  0
> ...


http://www.forexnews.com/blog/2015/0...n-margin-call/

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Grayscale (GBTC) has all the share paperwork in shareholders hands so go ahead and say your piece about what will happen on monday w/ this contraption.

----------


## amonasro

Still bearish guys? I think the market wants to fill in to at least to the 78.6 fib level, which is just below $200.

----------


## amonasro

> Still bearish guys? I think the market wants to fill in to at least to the 78.6 fib level, which is just below $200.


Er, nevermind. Btc-e pump. What to think?

----------


## presence

> Er, nevermind. Btc-e pump. What to think?


Not sure... been watching it... to 


269.25 


!!!

The other exchanges are watching BTCe like they're a bunch of loons on meth.

----------


## zeMan

It would be interesting to know what happened on BTC-e. Someone with a million bucks or so pushing the market around for fun?  It's pretty sad that such a small amount of money can cause the entire market to react, we need moar mkt cap!!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> It would be interesting to know what happened on BTC-e. Someone with a million bucks or so pushing the market around for fun?  It's pretty sad that such a small amount of money can cause the entire market to react, we need moar mkt cap!!


My guess is it's some whale trying to put the short squeeze on and get a reversal going on or someone w/ lotsa cash that is using BTC-e as a means to convert to bitcoin and move his money out of a certain area and fast. Otherwise, he wouldn't be gobbling up orders in such a progressive way and scooping coins all the way up to 260.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## muh_roads

GBTC stock is live.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> GBTC stock is live.


I still don't know the point of it.

----------


## presence

> I still don't know the point of it.


On a fundamental level.  Anyone with an etrade, etc. account can now buy "shares in" BTC.   On a realistic level... nobody with shares is actually selling.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/quote

----------


## muh_roads

The community is arguing over increasing the block size from 1 MB to 20 MB.  Can someone fill me in?  Why be against that?

Wouldn't happen until March 2016.

----------


## presence

> The community is arguing over increasing the block size from 1 MB to 20 MB.  Can someone fill me in?  Why be against that?
> 
> Wouldn't happen until March 2016.


currently the bitcoin network can only handle 7 transactions per second; at 20mb that number would be closer to 150/sec.    The argument against it is the flat cost per node increases, which means greater consolidation and fewer nodes.   Another argument is that increasing block size will increase the percentage of zero fee transactions that pass through... which incentivizes not paying mining fees; as transaction fees will ultimately pay miners in the long run... this is not a good move for the longevity of the network.  It is also argued that the change is unnecessary and that not making the switch will force a 3rd party move to do "trusted peer" transactions between exchanges for example where accounts actually settle only once daily.

----------


## muh_roads

> increasing block size will increase the percentage of zero fee transactions that pass through...


Is that even a thing?  I've never had a transaction go thru without a fee anyway.  Last time I tried my funds were stuck in limbo for 3 days until blockchain.info refunded it.

I don't think any mining pools accept 0 fees.  I've always done 0.0001 as a fee just to be safe.

Anywho, thanks for the info.

----------


## presence

> Is that even a thing?  I've never had a transaction go thru without a fee anyway.  Last time I tried my funds were stuck in limbo for 3 days until blockchain.info refunded it.
> 
> I don't think any mining pools accept 0 fees.  I've always done 0.0001 as a fee just to be safe.
> 
> Anywho, thanks for the info.


Its not really a thing currently because we're nearly at capacity; 7 transactions per second.    So those paying fees effectively push those not paying to the back of the line.   However if we moved to 20mb; 150 transactions per second, as I understand, this may not be the case and there would plenty of "room" on each block to allow freeloaders; which theoretically would encourage the practice.   Myself... I always pay the $0.20 to be safe.

----------


## muh_roads

I heard the new AlphaPoint software they just hooked up destroyed the account of anyone who trades futures.   Numbers are all over the place...

----------


## presence

HB z11 is currently holding BTC.

3d sma30 is rising!

Has BTC bull market begun?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

http://quotes.freerealtime.com/dl/fr...e=Time%26Sales
The volume has been increasing everyday, currently around 1153 today. Lot's of coins (shares) purchased in the 550-650$ range earlier.

----------


## amonasro

Nice push up after a failed retest of the lows. Whoever was dumping there totally got denied. Pretty dumb move to try anyway as the market was not showing much interest to the downside at all.

I'm long @ $232, looking for resistance ~$255 with a probable pullback/beartrap and _possibly_ a retest of range highs if the market stays above $260. However that is weeks away and a final big shakeout to $200 is still possible. The difference now is that if the market gets to $280ish, that is flirting with the 200 day MA (also the 30 week MA) which could be a big technical breach and a very bullish sign.

----------


## muh_roads

I'll post the articles.  But does anyone have hard nipples?  You should.

 - itBit is the first US exchange to get a banking license and be FDIC insured in NYC.  Holy $#@!.

 - GBTC bid/asks are leveling out and down to 500 now, matching the exchanges soon.  Liquidity is moving in.  But people are moving their IRA's in.  Volume is good on GBTC.  Volume is growing healthy.

Did TPTB get their fill before announcing all of this?  Mewn time within the next few months?  You should check out the itBit counsel that works there.  Jesus all former gov't employees.  Don't use itBit...LOL

Things are gonna be choppy as hell.  Be greedy for BTC, but don't make mistakes.  This feels like a volcano is starting to erupt.

Is it just me, or are we bouncing between 200-300 faster and faster?

----------


## presence

> This feels like a volcano is starting to erupt.
> 
> Is it just me, or are we bouncing






Its time to rally round tha family!

----------


## presence

Although I suspect the market has turned bull long again... 

1) it will be hesistant to quickly bounce back after this long year of decline

2) economically it makes sense that as BTC matures growth rates will be slower



If I could peer deep into the future I'd expect something like this: 






meaning we'd still be sub $1000 for another 2 years.

----------


## muh_roads

> Although I suspect the market has turned bull long again... 
> 
> 1) it will be hesistant to quickly bounce back after this long year of decline
> 
> 2) economically it makes sense that as BTC matures growth rates will be slower
> 
> 
> 
> If I could peer deep into the future I'd expect something like this: 
> ...


Interesting chart.  Do you get 2 years from the time between the 2011 low and the early 2013 bubble?  If that was scaled up and overlaid on what we have now...the 2 year time frame would be more like the year 2030 or something until the next bubble, heh.

Wow, millions of coins changed hands during that March-May 2013 period...lol

----------


## muh_roads

Okay so I can't find articles on IRA's moving into GBTC, so I'll just post some twitter stuff here for now...

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

Nice chop up.  Some more sideways for a few days now.  Bears wait at 260-280, but that could still be a nice $20-$40 profit per coin.

----------


## btcltc

do you guys think btc and the more prominent altcoins will rise again, perhaps not to what they where before, but lets say that btc will hit at least 600dollars before the end of this year?

----------


## Zippyjuan

More than double by the end of the year?  Highly unlikely- for any type of asset or investment.

----------


## muh_roads

> do you guys think btc and the more prominent altcoins will rise again, perhaps not to what they where before, but lets say that btc will hit at least 600dollars before the end of this year?


In the land of bitcoin anything is possible.  450 has to be cleared first before 600 can happen.  There will be more rollercoasters moving between the 100 to 300 range for a while, IMO.   Volatility has slowed down but still massive on a zoomed out scale.  And that is considered our new sideways movement on the 1d chart.  Try to play the swings to hoard for more BTC.   Spend when you want/need to on the up-swings.

As for alt-coins, there will be more wild swings but they are less predictable since they are easy to move for big BTC holders.  I think alt-coins will have no unique utility-value in the future once blockstream arrives at the beta stage for bitcoin sidechains.  Ethereum has something useful called DApps but people are saying it isn't rocket science and will just be copied.  Same goes for "smart" contracts.




> More than double by the end of the year?  Highly unlikely- for any type of asset or investment.


Bitcoin is not like any other investment what-so-ever.  There are no stock splits or reverse stock-splits.  It's a never-ending global IPO that anyone can be part of.  Not just a select few.   And each "share" also doubles as a transmission of value for purchasing goods & services.  No stock can do that.

And the 14m current supply being eaten up among a possible 2b internet connected people is nothing I would bet against.

99.98% of the global population was not involved to push BTC to $1200 for the first time.  The possibilities are staggering if you think about it.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> *99.98% of the global population was not involved to push BTC to $1200 for the first time.* The possibilities are staggering if you think about it.


You are right. It was a small number of speculators trying to make a buck off of it.  The bubble has since burst now that the novelty has worn off and the speculators have mostly cleared out.  I would not expect any similar such rush to occur in the future.

----------


## presence

> You are right. It was a small number of speculators trying to make a buck off of it.  The bubble has since burst now that the novelty has worn off and the speculators have mostly cleared out.


Which is why 2015 has seen more venture capital than ever before?

----------


## Zippyjuan

And yet the price of BitCoin has barely moved since the beginning of the year. It is less than half what it was a year ago ($241 vs $570).

Surely all that investment would lead to more demand for BitCoins and a higher price for it.

----------


## presence

> And yet the price of BitCoin has barely moved since the beginning of the year.





> Accumulation
> 
>  Large investors and financial institutions are limited in their  ability to move in and out of securities because they deal with large  numbers of shares that would drive the price of a security up if ordered  all at once. In order to buy their intended number of shares,  institutional investors spread their accumulation of shares over a  period of time.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/...#ixzz3b68cx7A1 
Follow us: @Investopedia on Twitter

----------


## Zippyjuan

Doesn't apply to BitCoin. BitCoin isn't a stock.  It is more like a commodity like gold or oil.

----------


## presence

accumulation doesn't apply to bitcoin?

teach me more wise wizard

----------


## Zippyjuan

How much in BitCoins are major investors accumulating?

----------


## presence

> How much in BitCoins are major investors accumulating?


At the very least, I would suspect those who purchased 40,000 BTC blocks of coins at the last auction are continuing to buy support their investments.

----------


## muh_roads

> How much in BitCoins are major investors accumulating?


Divide 21m total by your personal holdings and the resulting number means you own 1 piece out of 'X' many pieces in the global bitcoin economy.  Which basically also encompasses all $#@!coins and the cryptocurrency community as a whole since all of their value is pegged to BTC.

Most are trying for 2.1 = 1 out of 10m
Many are trying for 21 = 1 out of 1m
Some are trying for 210 = 1 out of 100K
Some are trying for 2100 = 1 out of 10K
A few are trying for 21K = 1 out of 1,000 (whales causing the most movement)
Some former FSP-NH / libertarians at the top like Roger Ver, Voorhees, Silbert, are 1 out of 100

The opportunity is still now before we're only referring to BTC as "bits" in the future.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> *************PRICE ALERT****************
> 
> 
> Huobi is knocking on heaven's door.
> 
> .




I KNOW RIGHT

----------


## presence

> I KNOW RIGHT


_image might extend off page; right click view image_


GATEWAY TO HEAVEN

----------


## presence

The only thing that matters right now is SMA 5 and 15 cross on 3d chart; as long as its bullish you STFU and hold crypto.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

We will be the corrupt overlords of the future!!! Buy now, and join us or suffer in inescapable poverty..... The Tyranny will be delicious.

1 BTC will buy a president in 2030!

----------


## amonasro

> How much in BitCoins are major investors accumulating?


There is no way to know for certain, but in terms of market activity BTC/USD hasn't made new lows after the washout to $166 in January and that is an important piece of information. It means that someone or multiple someones are supporting the price. How this plays out into the summer is yet to be seen, but one can make some semi-accurate predictions in light of greater market theory to take some low risk positions.

Long-term market tops and bottoms occur because of huge shifts in supply and demand and can take many months (even years) to play out. How the smartest traders take advantage of these areas (and the general public's reaction to them) is the reason why the price does not immediately move to reflect this shift. So you get ranges after major market tops and bottoms where a lot happens behind the scenes with big money and huge numbers of shares changing hands. Once this is finished and the big operators are done with their campaigns, the price finally moves and you get a bull or bear market, depending on where you are in the cycle.

The cyclical nature of this buying and selling as it relates to human fear is really important to understand why markets do what they do.

----------


## presence

eyes on your LTCBTC 30 minute

007600 last

consolidating and rising

----------


## amonasro

Anyway hopefully you guys aren't going too crazy during this quiet area of the market bottom. Not a whole lot of trading to be had even though I do have a long position open. 

Wyckoffian logic says that this area of low volume/low volatility in the trading range is when most of the stock is now in strong hands. Everyone who wanted out is out, the punters are all waiting for a breakout, and a few interests are building up positions, further tiring out any weak hands who have stubbornly held on. 

Here's a great video that uses supply and demand/composite operator logic to analyze the 10-month bottom accumulation in AAPL in 2002-03. It also covers Carl Icahn's accumulation (and subsequent distribution) of hundreds of millions of Netflix shares. It should give you a good idea of how the big professionals trade, what kind of volume they move and what happens when they take the brakes off to attract the general investing public... no doubt there will be similar interests entering the Bitcoin market if they are not already here.

----------


## presence

25,000 LTC buy order just appeared at the top of the btce ltcbtc books.

----------


## presence

I'm looking for a strong breakout imminent to 0125 - 0150 range

0076 last

----------


## presence

LTCBTC to 00776

----------


## enter`name`here

Decent action in many of the altcoin markets this past month. any ideas rumors theories?

----------


## presence

> Decent action in many of the altcoin markets this past month. any ideas rumors theories?


I think bitcoin is re entering a long bull market again; money is moving into crypto; people are diversifying again.

----------


## fatjohn

This certainly looks like the end of the bear market is coming with a swift outbreak over the downtrend, just as litecoin did last week. Does not mean a bull market will start right away, I expect more sideways movement for the better part of 2015. But this is probably a good point to buy. Price has been consolidating for weeks now. Most people with bitcoin are strong hands now. The hype of late 2013 is too far in the past, nowadays everybody who still has bitcoin is in this for the long run.

It's go time.

----------


## presence

I'm calling a June LTCBTC price channel here:


BUY / HOLD 73 now


SELL 81
BUY  73
SELL 84
BUY  77  


Then moon.

----------


## presence

> I'm calling a June LTCBTC price channel here:
> 
> 
> BUY / HOLD 73 now
> 
> 
> SELL 81
> BUY  73
> SELL 84
> ...



revising that this afternoon

----------


## presence

btce has been subject to ddos all afternoon 522 errors when you try to access now; its been down since 6:40 PM EST

----------


## muh_roads

Coinffeine is making good progress so we shouldn't have to put up with ddos attempts for too much longer.  I think BTC-e was the first exchange to implement multi-sig wallets.

----------


## presence

10 minutes ago  via twitter:


Update: We are still experiencing problems with the data center . Our engineers are working to resolve the problem. Thank you for understanding #btce

----------


## kfarnan

> Coinffeine is making good progress so we shouldn't have to put up with ddos attempts for too much longer.  I think BTC-e was the first exchange to implement multi-sig wallets.


Great.  Central exchanges seem counter to btc ideal.  These big exchanges are Gox in wait.

----------


## presence

800 BTC of buy support just appeared on LTCBTC at 00750

----------


## presence

strong buy support now in LTCBTC



this is expressed in BTC terms; 1605 BTC @ 00710 is about 216,000 LTC; about $400,000

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Green dildo sighting 00808

----------


## FSP-Rebel

2.0 just now.Damn, 20k just bought.

----------


## fatjohn

BTC LTC resistance possible at 0.01025 and 0.12
LTC USD resistance possible at 2.6 and 3.35
Level of BTC USD resistance implied is 254 and 280, while I see more likely resistance at 254 and 305

----------


## presence

//

----------


## presence

I'm back in BTC.

Sold 00845  

845/758 = 11% after fees 





I'm back in at 00745 in a week or two.  


this one will extend wide off the page; right click view image:



Honeybadger is about to begin a new cycle, the beginning of the cycle is always the most profitable.





marketplace version is holding BTC
freeware version is holding USD




```
Freeware:
[2015-06-13 10:00:00] Buy and Hold Gain.: 0.67X
[2015-06-13 10:00:00] Asset Gain........: 1.72X
[2015-06-13 10:00:00] Currency Gain.....: 1.16X

Marketplace:
[2015-06-13 10:00:00] Buy and Hold Gain.: 0.67X
[2015-06-13 10:00:00] Asset Gain........: 1.63X
[2015-06-13 10:00:00] Currency Gain.....: 1.10X
```



they're about equally profitable since inception.   freeware is actually up just slightly

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

PPC



I'm looking for 00170 at the peak of this wave;  17/14 = +20%   


be careful ppc lacks liquidity

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

The PPC push is being led by china at btc38; they're daily volume is now exceeding btce's PPC volume.  

LIVE Bitcoinwisdom Style Charts HERE:

http://k.sosobtc.com/ppc_btc38.html

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Mankind accepts and expects good fortune as his due. 
When bad occurs he's quick to conclude it was aimed at him, done to him; a curse, impropriety, or malfeasance.  
Men do not want freedom because it comes with the unrelenting lash of responsibility:  
They want to be fed, entertained, and granted privilege to exercise petty power.   (h/t AF)
Its unfortunate that neither the spectres of famine, vapidity, nor venial transgression 
undermine the conviviality of civilization as quickly as pettifogging squabbles.

----------


## presence



----------


## nayjevin

> Personally I don't foresee any Bitcoin moon launch as long as the community keeps spinning its wheels on the scalability/blocksize argument. But with the market being so unpredictable I'm content to just hold for a very long time


I have been encouraged that some of the proposals that are antithetical to libertarian principles (centralization) continue to meet resistance from well-placed leaders of the bitcoin community.  Some of the greatest minds are on it.  However, I'm a bit sour on the big picture of bitcoin, because as we all know the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray, and particularly if they are centrally planned.  Well the bitcoin protocol is decentralized - but the community and development process that determines when and how bitcoin will be changed is essentially a central kind of democratic government with 'consensus' being a vague enough term to be claimed in a wide variety of situations.  And since less than half of 'libertarians' support 'libertarianism' we can extrapolate that eventually bitcoin will fail because of human intervention.

----------


## presence

Every indicator, be it charts, moving averages, sar, rsi, the myriad other indicators, news, mining stats, trollbox activity, etc..  is meaningless if you don't have statistically likely hypothesis and strict adherance to your self imposed method.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

1 week DMI has crossed bull on LTCBTC LTCUSD and is about to cross bull on BTCUSD

----------


## fatjohn

> I'm back in BTC.
> 
> Sold 00845  
> 
> 845/758 = 11% after fees 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You still think LTC/BTC is going back to 00745?

----------


## presence

Marketplace Honeybadger ROI and Max Drawdown Actual

https://tradewave.net/strategy/BnplZAgHKS

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> You still think LTC/BTC is going back to 00745?


no definately not; we're long past "stoploss shares".   

I rode 758 to 845 and 970 to current.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

orderbook porn




That's $100,000 order on every 50 cent increment from 250 down to 230.


https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/ll_or...k/?pair=BTCUSD

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## Barrex

HA!

 Actually Bitcoins have INFLATION! As long as new Bitcoins are mined there will be inflation. Every new Bitcoin created inflates monetary base= inflation. Once they all are mined there wont be any inflation. But for now there is.

Can you chart that? Inflation and correlation to price of Bitcoin? How many are mined monthly/daily and how it influenced price? Recently price of Bitcoin is somewhat stable. New coins enter market constantly and how it affects price?

Just an interesting argument to have.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

Just want to warn everyone, especially alt coin newbies, to take this thread with a grain of salt.     I have lost my ass in real money a bunch of times listening to predictions on this thread.     Do your own research, don't believe anything you see here.    Although well intended, a few posters here know about as much as you do as a newbie, when it comes to where alt currency is going.

Alt currency is fairly new.   If we could all predict where alts are going, we would be millionaires and wouldn't need this thread.    PROCEED WITH CAUTION, unless you have money to blow.

----------


## presence

*Thread: Bitcoin Green Dragon June 21, 2015*

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

LMAO

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

*BTCUSD 12h SMA 60/90 Bull Cross

7 of 7 "Green Dragon" Signals are True

12h sma 30 slope positive: TRUE
12h sma 60 slope positive: TRUE
12h sma 90 slope positve: TRUE
12h sma 2 > 30: TRUE
12h sma 30 > 60: TRUE
12h sma 60 > 90: TRUE
12h sma 90 > 150: TRUE*

----------


## presence

> European leaders are now facing one of the worst moments in the history of the euro.


http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/28/news...ecb/index.html

----------


## kfarnan

They would do better alone.  When will the US default and leave the banks behind.  This what btc was made for.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Kids its on like donkey kong; no reason to be holding fiat right now.  


The moment is ALL IN.

----------


## fatjohn

I don't know seems like LTC/BTC trendline (two weeks old) has been broken to the downside a couple of hours ago.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't know seems like LTC/BTC trendline (two weeks old) has been broken to the downside a couple of hours ago.


LTC/BTC is tricky.  I usually stick with the USD pairs because the dollar is stable so it's easier to chart BTC against it than to chart against another unstable asset.  

I happen to agree with pres here.  This is a clear buy signal for the first time in a long time.  The markets consolidated for so long because, like turning around while running downhill, it takes a while for the momentum to change.  Now we are finally seeing higher lows and higher highs being made and we are on the brink of breaking the major longterm downtrend line.  

Oh, look, there goes the snap in LTC.  I'm glad I bought a couple hours ago.

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## presence

> 





pwned!!!!

moved bank to finex from btce in LTC's


OUT AT 015777 

IN AT 0146

----------


## presence

BTCe under DDOS again.   Whoever is doing it is preventing a downturn in the ltcbtc market;  


moon.... shakeout...  slight hint of reversal... ddos

rinse repeat


been going on all week

----------


## amonasro

*Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin*

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/tech...reece-bitcoin/

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

Holy $#@!, pres.  You were right about LTC.  I bought for the first time yesterday in over a year and my litecoin trade is up over 17%!!  Meanwhile, my bitcoin trade is up about 1.6%.  

Welp... you don't see me complaining.

----------


## presence

If shanghai breaks down you're looking at 2800

----------


## presence

> Holy $#@!, pres.  You were right about LTC.





I do what I can.  LOL

----------


## muh_roads

> Holy $#@!, pres.  You were right about LTC.  I bought for the first time yesterday in over a year and my litecoin trade is up over 17%!!  Meanwhile, my bitcoin trade is up about 1.6%.  
> 
> Welp... you don't see me complaining.


Congrats you guys.  That's bad ass!  

I chickened out at the bottom.  Had I not, I would've had a 400% gain from when pres first started talking about LTC a month or two ago.

**tips hat**

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

Anybody take any off the table last night?

Don't take this chart as the gospel.  Would like to hear other thoughts.

----------


## XTreat

There is a some irony in using a Rage Against The Machine song to promote a bull market.

----------


## fatjohn

Well my last post on ltc wasnt all that right to say the least. Good thing i just kept watching and didnt take a decision (lucky me that there was no headfake) I even found out I bought more LTC back in january on a paper wallet than I remembered. Was fearfull, kept still and got lucky. I even bought some btc when the move began. Now I am really all in.

I don't see how you deduce relevance from the 238, 240 level on that chart, muhroads.

Personally i think the bitcoin has just broken the logarithmic downtrend in dollars after it had taken out that downtrend in cny a week or two ago. Litecoin has done the same five weeks ago and we've seen what that meant. I am not claiming a similar price rise will happen with bitcoin but I do think the bear is dead. I'd hold on to LTC untill we near halving, I smell more mania coming.

Pres, good call on LTC explosion. About china, totally agree. Another 30% is definitely in the cards. I dont think we'll see the lows of 09 though, china has advanced way too much in 7 years to have such a low valuation. I also think the correction in worldwide stocks has begun and barring a huge event (greek default leading to deutsche bank bankruptcy or something) this will also be smaller than the 08-09 correction. Of note, compare 10 year shanghai composite to the S&P. In 08, shanghai started to fall drastically from the get go and the crash hardly accelerated or decellerated. The S&P had the all time high on practically the same day as the shanghai composite, but it lingered on a bit before really crashing a couple of months later. What I want to say is, the Chinese bear market was easily spotted, while the american one left a lot of bulls believing they were still on their turf.

Perhaps the bursting of the chinese bubble will once again prove to be the canary in the coal mine.

----------


## presence

> Anybody take any off the table last night?
> 
> Don't take this chart as the gospel.  Would like to hear other thoughts.



I'm more bullish than that for sure, and if I'm correct next fractal takes us over $300 for sure.  I suspect $360

----------


## presence

> There is a some irony in using a Rage Against The Machine song to promote a bull market.


lol

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

I'm looking for a LTC peak of 48 CNY $7.75 027000; @ BTC $280

----------


## presence

> "the goal of creating a 200 megabyte blockchain backlog. With  bitcoin averaging ten minutes to confirm a block, that backlog would  take more than a day to wade through."


http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/...r-stress-test/




> -* It’s time for another stress test, apparently. Coinwallet, the U.K.-based mining service* that last week attempted to run its own stress test of bitcoin,  is making another attempt on Tuesday, after that first event failed.  The goal is to push bitcoin’s transaction processing abilities to its  limits, clog up the system, and prove a point in what has become a  raging debate over how change in a decentralized community should be  implemented.
>  Individual blocks are the repositories into which every bitcoin  transaction is recorded, and are used to build the open, online ledger,  the blockchain, that lies at the heart of the decentralized system.  Proponents argue the 1 megabyte limit needs to be raised as bitcoin  grows. Opponents have a raft of reasons why that shouldn’t happen, or if  it should happen, exactly _how_ it should happen, and the entire  thing has become something of a referendum on how a decentralized,  leadership network regulates itself.
>  A number of blocks this morning were coming in routinely larger than 900 kilobytes (you can track these here and here),  very close to the 1 megabyte limit that’s written into bitcoin’s code.  That kind of transaction-stuffing should clog up the confirmation  process, and achieve the firm’s goal of showing the problem with the  block-size limit. As of this writing, though, exactly how well the test  has worked isn’t clear.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...s_of_zero_fee/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Anybody take any off the table last night?
> 
> Don't take this chart as the gospel.  Would like to hear other thoughts.


I sold LTC at 4.11 and BTC at 261, and did so because of that chart as well as my own instincts.  I get really uneasy riding through a pullback.  I'd rather take my quick profit and look for another place to do it again.

----------


## presence

> I get really uneasy riding through a pullback.  I'd rather take my quick profit and look for another place to do it again.


Nice short, I urge you not to get cocky in fiat though; the next legs will move more rapidly upwards.   


Consider the precedent of June 10 2012.  

Holding 12h SMA 2>30>60>90>150 with positive slope on 30,60,90 has a VERY HIGH win/loss ratio and ROI; historically 100% win after a prolonged bear market consolidation cluster.  









3d SMA 5, 10, 15, 25 (shown) = 12h 30, 60, 90, 150



I expect no less than $360 before the first noteworthy 3d sell off.

----------


## fatjohn

Pres, do you give any significance to the fact that the downtrend in btc hasn't been broken on BTC-e as shown here: https://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/so-close/

On all the other major exchanges this has been broken. Off course on the CNY and EUR exchanges due to the stronger dollar but also on bitstamp and bitfinex this has been broken in the last upswing to 269.

----------


## presence

> Pres, do you give any significance to the fact that the downtrend in btc hasn't been broken on BTC-e as shown here: https://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2015/07/01/so-close/
> 
> On all the other major exchanges this has been broken. Off course on the CNY and EUR exchanges due to the stronger dollar but also on bitstamp and bitfinex this has been broken in the last upswing to 269.




It has already crossed linearly.  That is log scale.  

I think with any trade you have to look at a variety of indicators and have "algo" in your head as to when to enter and exit.

We have 7 of 7 Green Dragon Criteria for 7 days now on all exchanges.

Honeybadger is still holding May 1 $235 BTC; it has renewed its "Honey" ; end of bear market "panic hold" multiple times and is still panic holding another week.

freeware Honeybadger is also holding. 

We have break beyond linear resistance long on all exchanges.

We have break beyond log resistance long on all exchanges except btce.




---------------------


If you wait for the "perfect" bull signal... in the world of finance you're too late.

----------


## presence

June 23, 2012 MT GOX = today


12h SMA 2,30,60,90

----------


## presence

> I sold LTC at 4.11 and BTC at 261, and did so because of that chart as well as my own instincts.  I get really uneasy riding through a pullback.  I'd rather take my quick profit and look for another place to do it again.


Are you back in?   252 was solid overnight.  240 to 238 seems greedy.

----------


## muh_roads

> Are you back in?   252 was solid overnight.  240 to 238 seems greedy.


I hit 255-252 orders.  Not all back in.  Kinda want to take profit here and just enjoy the weekend...drive around with the top-down.

I zoom out on the 4H now.  The MACD looks good, but...I dunno.  I don't like looking at the 15m anymore unless I'm serious I want all back in.  It's more relaxing to zoom out and live on the higher time frames so a person doesn't get whip-sawed in the Mister Miyagi chop-chop.

Have a nice 4th guys. Good luck. Gonna go celebrate 'muricah and debt spending.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> 


So it's 50/50 whether going up or down?

----------


## presence

> So it's 50/50 whether going up or down?


yes, at the close of a long legged doji, its 50/50 up or down.  Then each candle thereafter serves as self reinforcing indicator.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

It's interesting LTC semi mooning, but btc staying pretty steady.

----------


## muh_roads

> 


lol

Thanks pres.  Us chickens need a hug.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

40k tx backlog in the btc mempool

Expect 4+ hour delays moving coins.

https://tradeblock.com/blockchain/

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> 


I wish you would explain your charts.   Some of us have ADD and these charts go right over our heads.    What's the bottom line?

----------


## presence

> I wish you would explain your charts.   Some of us have ADD and these charts go right over our heads.    What's the bottom line?


There is/was someone spamming the bitcoin network with low value transactions.   Perhaps another "stress test".    Transactions per day hit an all time high; percent of transactions that were under .001 BTC grew to nearly 50% of all observations.  As a result there have been many complaints about slow moving coins today.

Bottom line; don't move coins right now unless u can be chill for a few hours.

----------


## presence

daily transactions = moon

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Are you back in?   252 was solid overnight.  240 to 238 seems greedy.


I kinda wish I got back in.  I'm happy with my profit, though, and I'm a really cautious trader.  I was considering a short just yesterday and I should've taken that, too.  There may be more room for downside before we find out where this is REALLY going...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's interesting LTC semi mooning, but btc staying pretty steady.


Yeah, bitcoin still not sure which way to go.  The real FOMO doesn't happen until we break $300 again.

----------


## presence

BAD TIME TO MOVE BITCOIN

http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions




wait time to move coins? 





> I'd say more than 10 hours if this continues


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1111811.100

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

this is an mp4 of the May 30 stress test:

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CHtfi_GXAAAvHfB.mp4

----------


## presence

All will dance to the OKCoin tune:

<32HELL or >34MOON

Conducting the consolidation will be:

15 min SMA 90,120,150,180




http://imgur.com/RLCu8oE

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

Up 13% on my BTC position, up *26%* on my LTC position. Pres, I owe you one for the LTC charts. Margin trading is a helluva drug, btw.

Wyckoff point & figure TA puts the upside potential for BTC in the $600s IF we get a bull market. Haven't done it for LTC yet. These are such thin markets that the upside targets will be conservative in the face of a parabolic move, which is where the bull will inevitably lead.

----------


## presence

I just folded my LTC postion


Fontas is also out.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 


Nice.  Me, too.  Just started shorting, in fact.

----------


## kfarnan

Doesn't seem to be dumping?  5.90 ltc

----------


## presence

I'm out either way.

Moving some BTC this morning:
155 minutes listed on network.  
Still Zero Confirms.
tx listed as "High Priority" @ blocktrail.com for over 90 minutes.  

Its been like this all week.

LTC may do wild LTC things on a pump&dump level from here... 
but on a retail, long TA level its time to take earnings.

BTC is going to be sideways until this log jam clears.  
Technical issues means no new money.
The big cats that are in now are going to support their investments.

I anticipate 2-3 days channelled in 270 to 260.  
I expect then more BTC moon into the coming weeks as a resolution to the tx issue comes to light.

LTC will pump again, on the *actual mathematical force* of the halving, *post* halving.  
This was the buy the rumor sell the news pre-halving pump. 




This is fontas' accout at trading view btw:

Fontas - TradingView



Also of note:

coblee says 


*The current spam attack on Bitcoin is not economically feasible on Litecoin*

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...itcoin_is_not/

----------


## muh_roads

Something is wrong with the network.  Don't move coins right now.  If you have to, only move if you know the wallet version is 0.9.5 or higher.  0.9.4 and lower is having problems.

----------


## amonasro

I held my LTC position last night because I didn't see a lot of distribution in the trading range after the buying climax to $5.60. All the selling was getting pretty well absorbed even after Fontas sold, making me wonder about his true intentions. Now it's in a pre-breakout reaccumulation range with rising bottoms and more absorption on the 15/30m, hugging the ceiling. In a bullish market these have a habit of breaking upward. A risky trade if you're not already in, but next resistance area is around $8. Hmm.

----------


## presence

My coins made it from Finex to BTCe.
*
4 hours 30 minutes*

----------


## presence

> A risky trade if you're not already in


Generally I agree.  

I don't recommend anyone without a firm grasp on things get involved at this level.

I might take a stab at 02300's... but I'll be trading on live orderbook dynamics of major litecoin markets; there's not much you can do quantitatively anymore; we're at the trade on gut level.

I spoke with fontas.   I think his game is the same.   


This is shark time.  Very high risk.  Very Very quick reward.  Very Very Very ugly downside risk.





in other news:


NY STOCK EXCHANGE SHUT DOWN 4 HOURS TODAY


HACKED?




> NYSE to resume some trading at 3:05 p.m., ETCNBC‎ - 1 hour ago
> 
> _NYSE_ and government officials ruled out a cyberattack as a cause, blaming instead a ...Trading resumes on NYSE after nearly 4-hour outageCNNMoney‎ - 12 mins agoOpinion: Why the NYSE trading halt should alarm investorsMarketWatch‎ - 1 hour ago





WSJ HACKED
UNITED AIRLINES HACKED







> *Were United Airlines & the New York Stock Exchange Hacked?*Heavy.com-46 minutes ago
> The _Wall Street Journal_ website also went down at about the same time ... and that they were caused by _hacking_, according to multiple reports.
> 
> Do They Think We're Idiots? Officals Say No Indication that NYSE _..._
> BGR-3 hours ago



All at the same time but supposedibitibitly not related? LOL

----------


## dannno

> in other news:
> 
> 
> NY STOCK EXCHANGE SHUT DOWN 4 HOURS TODAY
> 
> 
> HACKED?
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5916749

----------


## amonasro

> Generally I agree.  
> 
> I don't recommend anyone without a firm grasp on things get involved at this level.
> 
> I might take a stab at 02300's... but I'll be trading on live orderbook dynamics of major litecoin markets; there's not much you can do quantitatively anymore; we're at the trade on gut level.
> 
> I spoke with fontas.   I think his game is the same.   
> 
> 
> This is shark time.  Very high risk.  Very Very quick reward.  Very Very Very ugly downside risk.


I'm with you. I just don't see many whales selling LTC yet. Normally during tops you get big whooshes down on high volume/volatility as things get distributed, setting up the ease of a future downmove. The sharks may have higher prices in mind. I'm seeing that nobody selling, what selling there is is getting absorbed without big drops, and volume is really drying up. That's a reaccumulation characteristic where the implication would be more up.

Bitcoin is getting shaken out a bit... there's a bot on Finex that puts up massive ask walls during times of low volume to pull the selling out of the market and get the little fish to sell into its buy orders a couple bucks lower. I've seen traders throw multi hundred market buy orders at it and it doesn't flinch, but it does do an about-face when it's satisfied. Major whale bot, acts as a market probe. Pretty clever actually.

----------


## presence

I'm back on at 02300

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> NY STOCK EXCHANGE SHUT DOWN 4 HOURS TODAY
> 
> HACKED?
> 
> WSJ HACKED
> UNITED AIRLINES HACKED

----------


## presence

Half out 02390

All in again on 02325

----------


## muh_roads

Would you say BTC needs to break 300 otherwise it is back to 200's?

----------


## presence

Crazy.  I know.


I'm very bullish right here.

02276 last

I'm on the books to short 02570 down to 02450

----------


## presence

> Would you say BTC needs to break 300 otherwise it is back to 200's?


I can see us consolidating towards a 270-275 topside over another 48-72 hours at least. 
  I expect a tight consolidation at 275 then breakout to about 320.

----------


## presence

I might have issues.

----------


## XTreat

When you dump your LTC do you dump into $$ or BTC?

----------


## presence

> When you dump your LTC do you dump into $$ or BTC?


At the moment Honeybadger is holding BTC. 

 So I play LTCBTC.

When Honeybadger is in USD I play LTCUSD.

I'm watching OKCoin LTCCNY as my primary trade signal. 



I also have a copy of "Cthulhu Bollinger Bands v3.05" running on LTCBTC.

If I sleep in coins it will dump for me at the top.


I probably will not sleep tonight.  Just had a double espresso.


ITS ON




This is the Cthulhu tune I'm currently running.  It loses 4% of shares over the bull run:



The tune is custom but the script is otherwise exactly as is freeware at tradewave.



Its my "backup plan" for sleeping, away etc.

----------


## btcltc

What would you get out of not sleeping and constantly monitoring lines on the computer?

are you getting small winnings on the daily ups and downs?

----------


## amonasro

> What would you get out of not sleeping and constantly monitoring lines on the computer?
> 
> are you getting small winnings on the daily ups and downs?


When you can see the orders going through individually, it helps to watch the market. After you do it for awhile, you start to see clues that help you build a picture of what's going on. Combine this with volume data, indicators and you can increase the probability of taking a favorable trade. Good trading is really about gaining an edge.

Once you are in a profitable position, the big question is when to get out. A few percentage points can make a big difference in profits if you are trading a big position. Do you let it ride or take profits? It really comes down to personal preference and trading style.

----------


## presence

> What would you get out of not sleeping and constantly monitoring lines on the computer?
> 
> are you getting small winnings on the daily ups and downs?



I don't often do this... but tonight is an exceptional evening in Litecoin.






Most days playing minute candles is foolish static.

Tonight in LTC the 1m chart is all that matters.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

One more bullish flag on litecoin, then I'm shorting.  If it turns out to be another flag, then get out, rinse, repeat.  Eventually, I will be right and major gains will ensue.

Somewhere in the high 7s is my target.

----------


## presence

> I'm on the books to short 02570 down to 02450


that didn't work out.  

I took stoploss shares on 02600

bulling again.

----------


## presence

out at 0282
1/2 in on 0277

accumulating a PPC an NMC position

----------


## amonasro

Out at $7.50. Need some sleep already!

----------


## presence

folded that LTC position at 0278;  I'm done w/ LTC for the night.   morning?  wtf is it?

----------


## presence

via https://www.tradingview.com/chart/LT...he-Triple-Tit/

----------


## kfarnan

This is a funny formula, by "Litcoinmessiah".


"OK here is some really reliable predictions based on my formula you could trust:
Yesterday was 7/7/2015 so we multiply the day & year of the month and divided by the year of the century and finally multiply by the millennia.
So here it is:
(7*7)/15 = 3.26666667*2 = 6.53333334
We reached $6.53 Yesterday! so the formula has some credibility.
OK. Let's predict today's peak price:
(8*7)/15 = 3.73333333*2 = 7.46666666
Hmm... Looks like we will have a price increase of $1 per litecoin.
If you trust my formula, or anyone else's financial advise, Go ahead and buy Litecoin. Using Bitcoin to purchase is the easiest method as of now."

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

What is all the talk in the trollbox about LTC halving?    What does that mean?

----------


## kfarnan

> What is all the talk in the trollbox about LTC halving?    What does that mean?


The mining reward splits in two.  Usually moving value up.

----------


## Dianne

> The mining reward splits in two.  Usually moving value up.


Gotcha, thanks.

----------


## btcltc

Have you guys made anything in value the last month from trading daily? Feel like the market had been non changing

----------


## amonasro

Watching the candle and volume relationship on LTC/USD 6h/12h/daily... price is meeting major selling (not getting very far) on higher volume. This would indicate an excess of selling entering the market putting us into a possible distribution range. Too early to take a short position yet, but watching closely.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> Have you guys made anything in value the last month from trading daily? Feel like the market had been non changing


Yeah, turned 500 BTC into 609 BTC when I sold at .01940 or so, having held LTC for a couple weeks.  Back in at .02700.  (Another way of looking at it is I turned 31,000 LTC into 22,000 LTC by selling low and buying higher...)

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, turned 500 BTC into 609 BTC when I sold at .01940 or so, having held LTC for a couple weeks.  Back in at .02700.  (Another way of looking at it is I turned 31,000 LTC into 22,000 LTC by selling low and buying higher...)


Welcome Mr. Whale.

Still climbing at 029, well played.

----------


## XTreat

I just wanted to bounce this off of you guys and see what you think. I have been involved mining LTC and BTC since early 2013, so I held most of my coin through the rise and fall only selling off a few BTC to cover my mining costs at about $1100 in NOV 2013. 

I have not had very much success market timing trading, even with this thread to lean on. I only understand 1/2 of what you guys are talking about anyways so I figure its best to stick to what I know and thats mining. 

SO I have been mining LTC pretty much non-stop since then using a dollar cost averaging method of trading about 50% of my LTC  immediately for BTC and holding the rest as LTC.

For the last week I have been slowly converting all of my LTC to BTC. For example I sold 10% at .015, .018, .024, and .028.  I currently have sell orders in for .034 and .038.

I will likely hold my BTC for the long haul, at least until they are worth either a few grand a piece or zero before I sell again.

I kinda just wanted to see if anyone had any advice to add to my conservative methods.

----------


## staerker

I enjoy reading y'all's trollbox blather.

----------


## presence

> What is all the talk in the trollbox about LTC halving?    What does that mean?


miners get half the coins.  

miners tend to dump as they mine to pay electricity.

less dump pressure = rising prices.

----------


## presence

> I will likely hold my BTC for the long haul, at least until they are worth either a few grand a piece or zero before I sell again.
> 
> I kinda just wanted to see if anyone had any advice to add to my conservative methods.


This is what Honeybadger is built for; conservative wealth management. 

It trades on average every 12 days; but sometimes much longer or shorter.

Its been  holding since May 1 @ $235.

Market
Freeware 80X BTC 
The Honey Badger Support Thread
ROI Actual 




```
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] start date: 2014-12-10 05:00:00
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] start BTC value: 1.00
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] start USD value: 346.00
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] end BTC value: 1.63
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] end USD value: 430.96
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] trades 16
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] days 212.00
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] frequency 13.25 days/trade
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] ROI_assets 1.63X
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] ROI_currency 1.25X
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] ROI_BNH 0.77X
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] ELAPSED TIME: 28.7 sec
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] MAX DD......: -23.67 pct
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] MAX BNH DD..: -50.06 pct
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] >> [1.00 BTC]
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] >> [6.9E-7 USD, 1.62754628 BTC]
[2015-07-09 21:00:00] >> Profit: 84.96449036 USD (estimated)
```

----------


## presence

I'm back in BTC; all alt bets are closed and I'm under long term honey badger management again.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Watching the candle and volume relationship on LTC/USD 6h/12h/daily... price is meeting major selling (not getting very far) on higher volume. This would indicate an excess of selling entering the market putting us into a possible distribution range. Too early to take a short position yet, but watching closely.


I took a short position at 7.73 before it went up to 8.9x with the intention of holding it until there was some kind of correction.  Allow me to present my chart explaining this, perhaps risky, move.  



As it turns out, I was right on the money.  Still holding short and I am SO FREAKING PUMPED!!!

As we can see, the volume/price relationship exhibited on the 4h chart was not so apparent on other time frames, but there is a very clear inverse correlation of steadily rising prices + steadily declining volume, indicating that buyers were drying up.  I did not want to wait until a technical breakdown because I knew it could happen very fast and there would be lots of slippage on the order books, i.e. nearly impossible to make a reactionary trade, so I took an anticipatory one instead.  

It is important to note that this relationship can be tricky sometimes, but this was a classic example of inverse volume/price correlation hiding in the fray of mass bullish hysteria.  As pres pointed out, the time frames between each pump had been getting less and less, so there had to be a correction soon and, well, here we are.  Congrats to anyone who noticed this.

----------


## dannno

lol, I just sold some LTC a couple hours ago when it was at the peak. Noiice.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

In other news, I am surprised to see that BTC was able to push through resistance successfully.  I did not expect that, but I am happy to see it since it indicates that we may see a major BTC run once it cracks $300 again.  This makes for a good, reliable long right after my nerve-wracking short on LTC.

----------


## muh_roads

What a crazy night.  Two major things...

1. Chinese mafia LTC "ponzi scheme" pump group news is coming out tomorrow.

2. OKCoin just rekt the $#@! out of everyone that plays futures contracts by going down the moment LTC was dumped.  The socialized losses are going to be massive.

I'm not sure how the markets will react tomorrow to this news.  The spread between China and the US price is growing.  The moment LTC dumped BTC mooned.  China is dominating bitcoin.  

I kinda want to buy some namecoin.

----------


## staerker

> I kinda want to buy some namecoin.


I dance between NMC, NVC, and USD. I don't bother with anything else at this point.

----------


## presence

> I'm back in BTC; all alt bets are closed and I'm under long term honey badger management again.








Nasty.  


LOL

----------


## Dianne

> Nasty.  
> 
> 
> LOL


Have you set a target price for getting back in LTC?

----------


## presence

Look for LTC in the mid to high 3's in the next hour. 

Flash crash.

$3.60?     

working on an interpolation

brb

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

> Look for LTC in the mid to high 3's in the next hour. 
> 
> Flash crash.
> 
> $3.60?     
> 
> working on an interpolation
> 
> brb


Ouch, feel sorry for peeps who slept late this morning lol.

----------


## Dianne

> 


I guess I'll stay in the trollbox to see the fire works lol.    Thanks for the info.

----------


## kfarnan

Fontas, at Tradeview said $21 would be the top.  Any truth?

I need to stop listening to others and read the charts...

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

dat BTC

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> 


Lots of excitement in the last couple of weeks.  I'd like everyones thoughts.  Feels like everyone is long, which seems concerning.

Pres.  Are you literally just following your bot?

To everyone, who is all in BTC?  Who is in 50%?

Okay so if this thing is taking off, what is the next pullback recommendation for people who are buying?  4H MACD looks like it wants to div so FOMO'ing in at this moment seems silly.

There is clearly price action.  There is excitement here.

Paul, you seem concerned about volume.  Does that apply to BTC or just LTC?

Amonsaro, what is your take?

Thanks guys.

----------


## Dianne

Anyone going to sell btc at 291 and try to repurchase lower?

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah, turned 500 BTC into 609 BTC when I sold at .01940 or so, having held LTC for a couple weeks.  Back in at .02700.  (Another way of looking at it is I turned 31,000 LTC into 22,000 LTC by selling low and buying higher...)


So I'm dying to ask, did you exit?

I went in 026 and sold at 03.  But then I stupidly bought in again after settlement not expecting the timed OKC ddos / ltc dump.  I caught the top of the 1st giant green candle exiting the 15m.  Scary $#@!...lol

Those funds definitely want vengeance on LTC in the future.  Setting that portion aside.

----------


## amonasro

Yeesh, flew a little too close to the sun last night with LTC. I left the computer to grab a snack, didn't set a stop, came back and that red dildo wrecking ball was already in action. Fortunately I had a BTC long to even it out. All in all pulled a profit, but it could have been much, much better. Sigh.

The thing is, my original plan with LTC was to short the top, and I even called it (about a dollar too soon), then I traded against my own advice. This is what happens when greed kicks in.

I'm officially banning myself from reddit, tradingview chat and any other source that will affect my ability to read the charts. (edit: not you guys!) I need to learn how to temper my enthusiasm during a rally. Maybe turn all of my charts upside down

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> 


Getting close already...

Got an idea on a bounce like for BTC if the 1H prints a lower willy?

----------


## presence

Pres.  Are you literally just following your bot?


I've been trading LTC NMC and PPC to BTC while my bot holds BTC.

Else when bot is in fiat I'm fiat.


Right now bot is in BTC.

I might trade the btcusd topside manually for a hat trick.



Here's the forecast:

----------


## amonasro

> Amonsaro, what is your take?


A lot of traders took a hit last night, so they are being cautious. This is probably the reason for the low volume. BTC larger timeframes look great with a big daily candle and expanding volume. It looks good to me. 

I think this rally is different than the last time we went to $300. There's a lot less selling and better ease of movement up. Wyckoff noted in his writings that this rally, late in the trading range when all available stock is held primarily by strong hands, was different than others before it. He called it a sign of strength/jump across the creek where the smart money have all taken position and now use their resources to push the market up, shooting us out of the trading range. There is great ease of movement because the selling is gone. This only happens at the end of accumulation when the market is ready. The market seems ready.

I think the LTC pumper has switched to BTC--I recognize the action of his bot and the orderbooks are paper thin. It's going to be a crazy few days if the market breaks $300 decisively.

----------


## presence

100% LTC


sold 0282
bought 0142

----------


## kfarnan

> 100% LTC
> 
> 
> sold 0282
> bought 0142


Is it safe yet?  Is algo catching these swings?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Lots of excitement in the last couple of weeks.  I'd like everyones thoughts.  Feels like everyone is long, which seems concerning.
> 
> Pres.  Are you literally just following your bot?
> 
> To everyone, who is all in BTC?  Who is in 50%?
> 
> Okay so if this thing is taking off, what is the next pullback recommendation for people who are buying?  4H MACD looks like it wants to div so FOMO'ing in at this moment seems silly.
> 
> There is clearly price action.  There is excitement here.
> ...


Are you kidding?  Who isn't concerned about volume?  The basics of the volume/price relationship are important no matter what you're trading.

Oh, btw, made 62% on that LTC trade.  Not sure why the price action between BTC and LTC are so different, but I'm still a bit skeptical of BTC's rise.  If we're going to break $300, then we should see fast gains and a top at least in the upper 300s.  

Too pumped about making 62% to be too concerned at this point.  I might trade BTC if the right setup presents itself.

----------


## amonasro

> Is it safe yet?


LTC is at the 61.8% fib retracement... a good bet for the bottom. I'm waiting until a secondary test of the lows on low volume before getting in.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeesh, flew a little too close to the sun last night with LTC. I left the computer to grab a snack, didn't set a stop, came back and that red dildo wrecking ball was already in action. Fortunately I had a BTC long to even it out. All in all pulled a profit, but it could have been much, much better. Sigh.
> 
> The thing is, my original plan with LTC was to short the top, and I even called it (about a dollar too soon), then I traded against my own advice. This is what happens when greed kicks in.
> 
> I'm officially banning myself from reddit, tradingview chat and any other source that will affect my ability to read the charts. (edit: not you guys!) I need to learn how to temper my enthusiasm during a rally. Maybe turn all of my charts upside down


Wow, that sucks.  There was a major obvious bear flag on the second LTC dumpage, which took us from $5 to $3.7x.  My target was hit at $4.5 while I was asleep and woke up to 62% gains.

----------


## amonasro

> Wow, that sucks.  There was a major obvious bear flag on the second LTC dumpage, which took us from $5 to $3.7x.  My target was hit at $4.5 while I was asleep and woke up to 62% gains.


Yeah had I stuck to my original plan... what got me was the initial dump from $8.x. Thing was HUGE. Sent Bitfinex's trading engine into a spiral. At least I made it out alive, and in profit.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yeah had I stuck to my original plan... what got me was the initial dump from $8.x. Thing was HUGE. Sent Bitfinex's trading engine into a spiral. At least I made it out alive, and in profit.


Nice work.  You seem to catch a lot of moves I wish I had caught.  I gotta admit I was really nervous about this one because I had to work for 8 hours when I wanted to start shorting and the liquidation price was $11.7, which didn't seem like a completely ridiculous target at the time since there was so much euphoria, but at the same time, I was almost certain it wasn't going to happen because there just wasn't enough time and the market was starting to work a little too hard and getting really heavy.  It's just that nagging feeling that you could be wrong because I literally had my entire trading portfolio on the line.  Risky, sure, but the odds were in my favor.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Long on LTC again (this time with far less risk).

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

Agreed Pres, watching closely for an entry point. The last woosh down to $3.6 may have been the shakeout/spring. May have to test the area again as there's still a few weak hands on BTCe (volume was slightly higher there).

----------


## presence

> Long on LTC again (this time with far less risk).


just hold it

I'm all in on 0142

moonage

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> just hold it
> 
> I'm all in on 0142
> 
> moonage


Are you expecting new highs?

Also, how about dat bitcoin?  Looks like we're getting ready to crack $300, which is a major level and may start a new bull market.

----------


## amonasro

I'm wondering if the CO is going to buy the LTC bottom just as BTC is cracking $300, igniting a huge rally in both coins. That's what I'd do.

----------


## presence



----------


## Dianne

It's at .0127 now...  Good time to buy?

----------


## amonasro

> It's at .0127 now...  Good time to buy?


Yes and no. This could be the bottom, the signs are there. If you want to be more conservative wait until it's totally bottomed out on no volume, or rallies back up a bit (edit: then you'd get in on the first pullback).

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Yes and no. This could be the bottom, the signs are there. If you want to be more conservative wait until it's totally bottomed out on no volume, or rallies back up a bit (edit: then you'd get in on the first pullback).


In a word, probably.

----------


## presence

we are sitting on the ass bottom of the most nasty 3d candle in  the history of LTCBTC.   Without a doubt it is a good time to buy and  panick hodl.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

recent trades have been 

May 1 
Buy BTC $235

ltc
B00758 S00845 

ppc
1% loss, don't recall numbers

ltc
B00970 S01960 
B0230 S0282 

ppc
B00240 S00280

ltc
B0142....

  All in all good month

----------


## amonasro

Good ease of movement on the last little LTC rally on low volume after the shakeout, an indication that selling is exhausted. Getting in on this pullback...

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

I'm not FOMO'ing this yet, but I set descending buy orders on LTC down  to 3.6 in 0.1 increments and went to bed.  Looks like a good call pres.

For BTC I think this is what I will do since I'm not currently in with trading funds I allocate to myself.

25-50% now
25-50% descending buy order increments down to _ _ _ ? I'm thinking 260
25-100% ascending sell orders from 320 to 375 depending on how much gets picked up from previous descending.  But if it breaks 380 it could fly further.

Maybe  I should believe in the effects of the breaking of 300 more?  Part of me  thinks whales would love to scare everyone back to low 200's after a pop  up.  So they can get another few months of chop-chop consolidation.  It  takes a lot of funds to start a new bubble with so many new resistance  levels that we didn't have before.

If I'm not in, I wouldn't mind a retrace to low 200's...personally.

The  other part of me thinks I should just zoom out on the 4H, walk away and  relax.  Lots of people talking about decreasing volume right now.

Back to the conscience on my other shoulder...I can't stand seeing my "estimated BTC count" decreasing as we keep rising here.

----------


## dannno

> Back to the conscience on my other shoulder...I can't stand seeing my "estimated BTC count" decreasing as we keep rising here.


Ya Honey Badger 80x sold at 290 and is in fiat atm.. It's only a portion of my investment but being in fiat makes me scurred.

----------


## muh_roads

> Ya Honey Badger 80x sold at 290 and is in fiat atm.. It's only a portion of my investment but being in fiat makes me scurred.


That's great that it held to 290 though.  When was your entry?  I backed out too soon at 260's from entering about 235.  USD gain on one hand (not as much as it could've been).  BTC loss on the other.

Us bitcoiners and our 1st world problems, 'eh?  lol

----------


## Dianne

> 


Is this chart showing us to dump LTC at 0175?

----------


## presence

> Is this chart showing us to dump LTC at 0175?


approximately I suspect 12.5% retrace around there.

----------


## presence

> Ya Honey Badger 80x sold at 290 and is in fiat atm.. It's only a portion of my investment but being in fiat makes me scurred.


hmm

I'll look into that.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Ya Honey Badger 80x sold at 290 and is in fiat atm.. It's only a portion of my investment but being in fiat makes me scurred.


yes.  its trading correctly and sold under "overbought" criteria. 


the marketplace edition has 3 over rodes this decision: 

it its eyes we're still too early into a green dragon to trade; however that override will wear out in about 2 hours.
ma30 is not high enough % over ma150 yet for it to sell "overbought"
resistance is calculated slightly differently in the marketplace edition; and is currently just a bit higher than freeware.



freeware version will hold fiat for a minimum of 48 hours here.
marketplace is still in BTC as of the most recent tick. 

.

----------


## presence

*Honeybadger 80X freeware as built in Dec 2014 vs LTCUSD at BTCe
*





SOLD
*$8.39272*

----------


## muh_roads

> however that override will wear out in about 2 hours.


Interesting.  Let us know what happens.  I think u posted that 2 hours ago.

EDIT: Was this referring to LTC or BTC honeybadger?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Interesting.  Let us know what happens.  I think u posted that 2 hours ago.
> 
> EDIT: Was this referring to LTC or BTC honeybadger?


btcusd


ltcusd sold at $8.58 finex $8.38 btce

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not FOMO'ing this yet, but I set descending buy orders on LTC down  to 3.6 in 0.1 increments and went to bed.  Looks like a good call pres.
> 
> For BTC I think this is what I will do since I'm not currently in with trading funds I allocate to myself.
> 
> 25-50% now
> 25-50% descending buy order increments down to _ _ _ ? I'm thinking 260
> 25-100% ascending sell orders from 320 to 375 depending on how much gets picked up from previous descending.  But if it breaks 380 it could fly further.
> 
> Maybe  I should believe in the effects of the breaking of 300 more?  Part of me  thinks whales would love to scare everyone back to low 200's after a pop  up.  So they can get another few months of chop-chop consolidation.  It  takes a lot of funds to start a new bubble with so many new resistance  levels that we didn't have before.
> ...


There's FOMO'ing, then there's real MO'ing (missing out).  A good trader can tell the difference.  The effects of breaking 300 are most likely real.  We already got scared once at this level, plus another ridiculous dildo before that to $315.  This time it's for real.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

W00t!  There goes BTC.  What did I tell ya?  I'm in at 299.

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> approximately I suspect 12.5% retrace around there.


0175 hit a 2nd time.  Well done pres.

Still in?

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

everyone give me your bitcoins so i can go retire on the moon

----------


## muh_roads

https://blog.bitmex.com/chinese-prom...-ponzi-scheme/

*Chinese Promoter Pumping Litecoin Via Ponzi Scheme*

Posted on July 10, 2015July 10, 2015 by Arthur Hayes



(FILES)  A picture taken on January 14, 2009 in New York, shows Bernard Madoff  leaving US Federal Court after a hearing regarding his bail. The French  prosecutor’s office opened on May 29, 2009 an investigation into  allegations of fraud following complaints from investors who say they  were harmed in a pyramid scheme orchestrated by US financier Bernard  Madoff, legal sources said. AFP PHOTO / TIMOTHY A. CLARY (Photo credit  should read TIMOTHY A. CLARY/AFP/Getty Images) Litecoin is on fire. It is up over 8x in one month. The whole crypto  trader community is abuzz with the astonishing price movement in  Litecoin. Other altcoins are benefiting as well. But why does Litecoin  defy gravity and continue its ascent? As always with crypto trading:  when in doubt, look to China.

 Some inquisitive traders on Bitcointalk.org posted a video link  to a promoter telling investors to buy Litecoin, send to their address,  and receive “mining returns”. Here is the link to a forum on 8btc.com describing the scheme. The promoter promises an income stream, if investors will send 500 Litecoin to this address.

 Over $76 million worth of Litecoin has been sent to the above  mentioned address. $68 million worth of Litecoin has been spent from the  address. I assume that a portion of the spent output goes to investors,  and a portion the promoter is cashing out.

 The 9 million Litecoin that the addresses has received represents 22%  of the total Litecoin in existence. It is obvious now how the price can  go from $1 to $8 in a month. As investors feel “richer” because their  500 Litecoin is skyrocketing in value, they will invest more sums into  the scheme.

 What is the promoter’s end goal here? The most plausible explanation  is that they are cashing out via Bitcoin. They transfer a portion of the  Litecoin received to a number of exchanges that have a liquid LTC/BTC  market. They then sell the Bitcoin for RMB on the large Chinese  exchanges. The selling pressure from the promoter explains why Bitcoin  hasn’t followed Litecoin up towards $300.

 How long can this go on? And when do you short it? The Litecoin  movement is gathering speed. The positive feedback loop, is attracting  not just victims but traders who see a rising altcoin and want to join  in on the party. Many still remember when Litecoin traded north of $40.  Greed will take over and goad regular traders to take the plunge back  into Litecoin. Shorting at this point is very hazardous. Don’t fight  China. With the stock market down substantially, Chinese traders will  latch onto any market that is rising. The promoters appear to be well  organized and have a well oiled machine to reach a vast number of  traders.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

I really don't get it. If I put $1000 into a crypto currency and then a month later it's worth $100,000, Who's going to buy it from me at its highest price?

----------


## muh_roads

Actually grabbed close to 012 on LTC.  Exited 0169, might have to get back in.

The amount of actual Greeks playing bitcoin is irrelevant.  That news brought in new people from all over the world.

Accumulating BTC during this dip right now.  Which means it is time to dump hard after I'm in.  lol

----------


## muh_roads

> everyone give me your bitcoins so i can go retire on the moon

----------


## Dianne

> 0175 hit a 2nd time.  Well done pres.
> 
> Still in?


I got in LTC yesterday, but never asked when I should exit lol...    Is everyone still in?

----------


## presence

> I really don't get it. If I put $1000 into a crypto currency and then a month later it's worth $100,000, Who's going to buy it from me at its highest price?



Imagine there's 10 cups of magic pixie dust in the world.


This month there are 10 people that know about it each with a willingness to pay $100 for however much that can afford them.

Everybody gets a cup each.


Next month there are 1000 people, each with $100 willing to take whatever amount of pixie dust they can get for $100.

Each of those people w/ a cup of pixie dust now have the option to sell 1/100th of a cup for the same amount they bought the whole damn cup for.


Follow?

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## Barrex

> 


No timeline? It looks it happened a lot faster than you thought it would.

----------


## Dianne

> No timeline? It looks it happened a lot faster than you thought it would.


Well I went ahead and sold at 017 after looking at this chart.    I hope I read it correctly, that we're heading to 016.    Any thoughts on where btc is going?

----------


## presence

> No timeline? It looks it happened a lot faster than you thought it would.


time scale can be very deceiving.

think in terms of "renko candles" 


http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...analysis:renko

exactly when people choose to buy and sell is as stochastic a process as the price at which they choose.   So time can slip into the future or speed up rapidly at any given moment.

----------


## Barrex

> time scale can be very deceiving.
> 
> think in terms of "renko candles" 
> 
> 
> http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.p...analysis:renko
> 
> exactly when people choose to buy and sell is as stochastic a process as the price at which they choose.   So time can slip into the future or speed up rapidly at any given moment.


I meant you didnt draw time line on your graph. Vertical is value and horizontal is time. You show value but not time.  Every time you post a chart you need to have both values shown. That are basics of presenting your papers, theory...

----------


## muh_roads

In BTC around the same time as Paul.  Nice thing to wake up to.  Staying above 300 for a week would look good if we're now in the 300-400 trading range.




> I meant you didnt draw time line on your graph. Vertical is value and horizontal is time. You show value but not time.  Every time you post a chart you need to have both values shown. That are basics of presenting your papers, theory...


Horizontal time is nearly impossible to predict, IMO. Vertical value is based on fib lines and elliot wave resistance/support which can be predicted a bit better.  That's why I'm thinking about just getting back in on the portion I'm allowing myself to trade LTC and not looking at it for a while.  I made a new HODL plan with some new diversified allocations to USD & LTC and feeling good about it.

Keeping a close eye on the lower timeframe macd's trying to make a decision.

----------


## Barrex

> In BTC around the same time as Paul.  Nice thing to wake up to.  Staying above 300 for a week would look good.
> 
> 
> 
> Horizontal time is nearly impossible to predict, IMO.  That's why I'm thinking about just getting back in and not looking at it for a while.
> 
> Keeping a close eye on the lower timeframe macd's trying to make a decision.


LOL. I am not talking about predictions. I am talking about presenting ones findings. When you present graphs showing time and value is a MUST.

----------


## muh_roads

I don't think anything is a must.  I'm happy for anything posted.

I wonder if 0121 will double bottom.

----------


## staerker

> I really don't get it. If I put $1000 into a crypto currency and then a month later it's worth $100,000, Who's going to buy it from me at its highest price?


The people who think the price will go higher.

----------


## btcltc

Damn i missed the ltc pump some day ago. Anyone here made some massive gains?

----------


## muh_roads

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMark...ing_july_10th/

----------


## presence

> I don't think anything is a must.  I'm happy for anything posted.
> 
> I wonder if 0121 will double bottom.


yes.  I suspect so. 

I may not buy back in on this upcoming 022 short


see if it wants flo

----------


## presence

> I meant you didnt draw time line on your graph. Vertical is value and horizontal is time. You show value but not time.


read up on renko

note the timescale is skewed. 

At ANY point a market can choose sideways and its next to impossible to predict for exactly how long.


How long?  

Until* some individual* breaks the consolidation. 


When you look at a fractal interpolation.   Don't think in terms of time.




"if it breaks upward, these are the upcoming points of resistance where shorts can be taken; the last of which is always the most reliable"

----------


## presence

> Damn i missed the ltc pump some day ago. Anyone here made some massive gains?


I posted my trades this month a few pages ago.  Massive is a good way to look at it

----------


## muh_roads

> I may not buy back in on this upcoming 022 short


Sorry I don't understand this sentence.  You wrote that like you are still in?  I guess I'm getting confused with what Dianne said she did re-reading the previous page...lol

----------


## Barrex

> read up on renko
> 
> note the timescale is skewed. 
> 
> At ANY point a market can choose sideways and its next to impossible to predict for exactly how long.
> 
> 
> How long?  
> 
> ...


HA HA HA...Srsly? This is getting really strange. I am not looking for your advice on how to interpret it or what is means or anything like that. I dont do speculative trading. Got some coins, but they are just for fun. I am visiting this thread from time to time. You put a lot of time into this thread and into your graphs and they are elementary school level (not intended to insult you). If you are just having fun it is ok, but if you discuss finances you expect material that is presented in above elementary school level. Your posts remind me of Richard Feynman...when he "invented"  his own mathematical language/signs (your cups and dragons made me laugh).


My point: Your axes should at least be named.


That is all. Sorry for confusion. Dont know how to explain it any simpler.

P.s.

Crap. Now that I wrote this post it looks harsh and condescending.... was thinking about deleting it but what the hell it is internet and we are adults...

----------


## muh_roads

Everyone is feeling indecisive FOMO right now and getting cranky...lol

**hugs for everyone**

----------


## muh_roads

> Any thoughts on where btc is going?


Playing with trend lines here.  Needs to bounce soon, I would think...if those lower angled lines start to break it might fail completely?

Maybe?


----------------------------------------------





----------------------------


EDIT: And it bounced from that point...





Needs to break 312?

----------


## presence

yikes.

this one has extreme velocity 

CAREFUL

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

I find it confusing now there's so many crypto currencies. Couldn't everyone just stick with Bitcoin?!

----------


## presence

> I find it confusing now there's so many crypto currencies. Couldn't everyone just stick with Bitcoin?!


If you attempted to send BTC during this past month you would have noticed that at times it took upwards of 4-10 hours to get confirms. 

Bitcoin is really cool tech... but its kind of like the Model T Ford.


Even when Bitcoin was taking 10 Hours to move coins;  the Litecoin network was still cranking out 10 confirms in 10 minutes.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> If you attempted to send BTC during this past month you would have noticed that at times it took upwards of 4-10 hours to get confirms. 
> 
> Bitcoin is really cool tech... but its kind of like the Model T Ford.
> 
> 
> Even when Bitcoin was taking 10 Hours to move coins;  the Litecoin network was still cranking out 10 confirms in 10 minutes.


I thought that only happens if your wallet is fragmented with tons of tiny transactions.

----------


## presence

> (your cups and dragons made me laugh).



http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cupandhandle.asp
http://www.tradechartpatterns.com/?p=455




> My point: Your axes should at least be named.



Most of these recent interpolations are of 5m candles and represent resistance to be expected within 2-12 hours else invalid.  They also invalidate in the event of reversal.  Hope that helps.

----------


## presence

> I thought that only happens if your wallet is fragmented with tons of tiny transactions.


there was recently an "attack" on the bitcoin network to prove that it could be done.   The network was purposefully slowed to a crawl to prove a point that there is a technical issue with the blockchain.   Essentially one user was spamming the network with tiny coin transfers.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> there was recently an "attack" on the bitcoin network to prove that it could be done.   The network was purposefully slowed to a crawl to prove a point that there is a technical issue with the blockchain.   Essentially one user was spamming the network with tiny coin transfers.


Wouldn't even major banks of fiat currency have their systems crash if there was a barrage of 1 cent transfers?

----------


## kpitcher

> I find it confusing now there's so many crypto currencies. Couldn't everyone just stick with Bitcoin?!


They could - but so many people looked around and said 'wow, if I had a chunk of bitcoins myself I could be rich!' and started alt coins. 

A few actually do things a little different and stand out. Most however are just me too coins that have no real purpose. There are even services to do all the work to create your own alt coin

----------


## muh_roads

Bitfinex got ddos'd.  Jesus...lol

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> In BTC around the same time as Paul.  Nice thing to wake up to.  Staying above 300 for a week would look good if we're now in the 300-400 trading range.
> 
> 
> 
> Horizontal time is nearly impossible to predict, IMO. Vertical value is based on fib lines and elliot wave resistance/support which can be predicted a bit better.  That's why I'm thinking about just getting back in on the portion I'm allowing myself to trade LTC and not looking at it for a while.  I made a new HODL plan with some new diversified allocations to USD & LTC and feeling good about it.
> 
> Keeping a close eye on the lower timeframe macd's trying to make a decision.


I kind of lucked out because I exited BTC at $310 on a hunch.  It seemed kind of sluggish and I had a long work day ahead of me, so decided to be satisfied with my profit even if it kept going without me.  That was about a 3% gain and I also had about a 20% gain on LTC at the same time.  Moments later, both went down and I ended up looking like a genius.  

I think I'm going to lay low for a while and pay myself from what I've earned in the last week.  This week I think I made over 90% gains, all told.  This after taking a couple of months off because of the market not moving, it pays to be patient.  It's a good time to reflect and renew my resolve to be a patient, cautious trader.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The people who think the price will go higher.


The people who think it's going to be worth a million dollars in the future.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Damn i missed the ltc pump some day ago. Anyone here made some massive gains?


Me.

----------


## btcltc

Damn. From now on, ill follow your trade diaries!

----------


## btcltc

90% gains? how much capital did you play with?

@paulconvention

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> 90% gains? how much capital did you play with?
> 
> @paulconvention


I don't really feel comfortable giving away specifics about my account, but let's just say I doubled my salary this month.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Damn. From now on, ill follow your trade diaries!


I update on Twitter.  Check my sig.

----------


## presence

> I don't really feel comfortable giving away specifics about my account, but let's just say I doubled my salary this month.


neither do I  but huge *high five*

Honeybadger freeware sold 290 and hasn't reentered yet.

Honeybadger marketplace is still holding.  Mostly because MA30 isn't x% higher (less than half the threshold) than MA150 yet in this 2>30>60>90>150 Green Dragon.  There are no longer any hold "timers" only hold criteria.   

I suspect re-entry at 278 will prove profitable. 

Honeybadger will stoploss if 12h ma2 < 12h ma30 + threshold

----------


## presence

LTCCNY

----------


## presence

well this corrected that "extreme velocity" 0.0105 is no longer a fractal target.





I'm currently on the wrong side of the ball; but I'm still looking for a bounce to <013 <$4

I'm still banking there largely due to 4h OBV; I'll post a chart in a sec.


If it happens great.  If not I'm not panicking here.   

When things are 5X up 1/3X down volatile you have to handle deep 25% drawdown in either currency and asset sense with steel balls, else you'll get toasted chasing the dragon.


Holding BTC.  

Headed to work.

Honeybadger opensource on ltcbtc
Honeybadger marketplace on btcusd

----------


## presence



----------


## Crashland

I have found that I can make much more BTC playing poker than by trading. Recent movement has been encouraging though, are we finally breaking out of that descending wave pattern since 2014?

----------


## amonasro

> Damn i missed the ltc pump some day ago. Anyone here made some massive gains?


I wouldn't say massive, but I was able to take the family to Mexico for a week on the gains I made from trading the volatility after the crash to $166. 

As of now I've made about 20btc this month thanks to the recent uptrend in both BTC and LTC. It could have been much more but I'll take it (damn you LTC). Markets giveth and markets taketh away. It's important to constantly be a student of the charts and work on ways to up your trading game and risk management. It is not easy. 

Shout out to Pres all you guys keeping up to date with your trading. It's nice to be around people with a good handle on reading the charts. Good times are ahead, I can feel it

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

I woke up today and my bitcoins are now worth like 6% less!  boooo

----------


## muh_roads

> Honeybadger marketplace is still holding.  Mostly because MA30 isn't x%  higher (less than half the threshold) than MA150 yet in this  2>30>60>90>150 Green Dragon.  There are no longer any hold  "timers" only hold criteria.   
> 
> Honeybadger will stoploss if 12h ma2 < 12h ma30 + threshold


Would you mind visualizing what you said here?

----------


## presence

> are we finally breaking out of that descending wave pattern since 2014?


without a doubt; I'm looking for $425

----------


## presence

> Would you mind visualizing what you said here?







green dragon event began; green line is "green dragon resistance" which is calculated slightly different in freeware vs marketplace

In the marketplace version, the purple hold timer expired +/- 20 days after green dragon event began
In the freeware version, the timer expired 5 days after the initial purchase under honey criteria almost a month earlier than the green dragon event began.

For stoploss:
blue 2/30 divergence has to be small enough (slightly different thresholds freeware vs marketplace)

For overbought:
yellow line has to be above green (white area) AND timer has to be expired AND 30/150 divergence has to be big enough

freeware does not have the 30/150 divergence criteria and has a less complex resistance line.

----------


## muh_roads

> green dragon event began; green line is "green dragon resistance" which is calculated slightly different in freeware vs marketplace
> 
> In the marketplace version, the purple hold timer expired +/- 20 days after green dragon event began
> In the freeware version, the timer expired 5 days after the initial purchase under honey criteria almost a month earlier than the green dragon event began.
> 
> For stoploss:
> blue 2/30 divergence has to be small enough (slightly different thresholds freeware vs marketplace)
> 
> For overbought:
> ...


Interesting.  So it sells if those lines spread further apart with some other criteria I imagine.

Everyone I think is wondering if a double-top will happen somewhere above 300 and then head back down again...

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

I wonder what's causing the btc to be flat the last few months, is it'cause ltc is gaining popularity?

----------


## muh_roads

> I wonder what's causing the btc to be flat the last few months, is it'cause ltc is gaining popularity?


We'll be back to $20 daily swings soon enough I'm sure.  When it comes to % swings it has actually been quite volatile since the bottom...

pres had the right idea by just staying away for a couple of months after buying in.

----------


## presence



----------


## Simran

> 


Good chart there, LP. Get on Skype doe.

----------


## presence

We've floated sideways for too long.  I've given up my quest for 012 and I'm back on board LTC.

Sometimes you have to filter out the noise; the charts at coin market cap show that double bottom bounce I was looking for:

**

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> We've floated sideways for too long.  I've given up my quest for 012 and I'm back on board LTC.
> 
> Sometimes you have to filter out the noise; the charts at coin market cap show that double bottom bounce I was looking for:


On your 1d chart, your move to .012 looks like it would take pert near a month to go down so it's interesting that you're saying sideways for too long. Not sayin you don't know what's up, just curious. Just dipped back below .016 and wondering if there's gonna be more to this. Yet, on this climb to new heights we do get a correction of sorts to shake some out and then proceed w/ the next scheduled broadcast of moonclimbing.

----------


## muh_roads

I guess if he thinks the target is 08, he probably doesn't care where he gets in.

I personally can't tell if we're uptrending or if all of this is like the coinbase pump.

----------


## Dianne

> We've floated sideways for too long.  I've given up my quest for 012 and I'm back on board LTC.
> 
> Sometimes you have to filter out the noise; the charts at coin market cap show that double bottom bounce I was looking for:
> 
> **


So you bought back in around .015 or .016'ish?

----------


## muh_roads

Drawing out a channel of lines here.  I'd say scoop if it drops below here.




---------------------------------------

I can't help but wonder if Coblee & the Chinese LTC cloud miner ponzi are working together in secret...lol  Or some group that likes LTC.  It might not be a ponzi at all.  It might be something like ASICMiner for LTC if you remember that name.

Read that article if you haven't.  I wasn't sure if I wanted to put it on the main page.

The article has me wondering if forces are trying to guarantee LTC is #2 after the next shift up.  Coblee, the creator of Litecoin, works for Coinbase.

Ready SET BUY!



PS: Not kidding about Coblee working for Coinbase if you aren't familiar.  He has been there for a while.

----------


## Dianne

> Drawing out a channel of lines here.  I'd say scoop if it drops below here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> I can't help but wonder if Coblee & the Chinese LTC cloud miner ponzi are working together in secret...lol  Or some group that likes LTC.
> 
> ...


Scoop LTC up if it drops below what?    I can't even read the numbers on your chart.    Maybe something with my puter, no clue.

----------


## muh_roads

djthistle thinks we're heading to 220 for btc.

----------


## muh_roads

> Scoop LTC up if it drops below what?    I can't even read the numbers on your chart.    Maybe something with my puter, no clue.


I was refering to the lower line.

It keeps busting thru trendlines then bouncing back up.  Requiring me to draw new lower lines that we keep breaking thru each day.  So, sideways down for now.

6H macd looks like it could turn up.

----------


## Dianne

> I was refering to the lower line.
> 
> It keeps busting thru trendlines then bouncing back up.  Requiring me to draw new lower lines that we keep breaking thru each day.  So, sideways down for now.
> 
> 6H macd looks like it could turn up.


Thanks, I understand now.

----------


## presence

> djthistle thinks we're heading to 220 for btc.


he's crazy

btcusd is green dragon

stoploss at 12h sma 2/30 cross; else hold until overbought



I don't have time for charts today.  I'm "sleeping" in LTC.


Worst case I'll ride 012 and back.

----------


## muh_roads

> stoploss at 12h sma 2/30 cross; else hold until overbought


Chartist battles, heh.  I mentioned to thistle how you think this will pop to 500 and settle around low 400.  He said the same thing you just did about him. "that's crazy"  

What would u look for to see a sign of "overbought"?  A lot of ppl barking that it already is.

When you get the chance, would you mind explaining how ichi moku cloud with renko(?) works?  Do u find it useful?

----------


## presence

> Worst case I'll ride 012 and back.


Well seems worse case.   Nothing better than busting your ass all day for a $100 to come home to 4 figure losses. 


$#@! it.

----------


## Dianne

djthistle may have been correct, looking at the size of those red dildo's at btc-e.

----------


## muh_roads

> djthistle may have been correct, looking at the size of those red dildo's at btc-e.


When he told me that, he said it would be more of a distant fractal down the road.  It won't be heading to 220 from here yet.  There will be bounces and chop-chop $#@!ery I'm sure.

I have LTC orders set to buy as it drops.  Getting orders filled all day.

----------


## Dianne

> When he told me that, he said it would be more of a distant fractal down the road.  It won't be heading to 220 from here yet.  There will be bounces and chop-chop $#@!ery I'm sure.
> 
> I have LTC orders set to buy as it drops.  Getting orders filled all day.


I have my ltc order set at .01325 .   Am I too low?

----------


## kfarnan

How do you set your buy orders?  Using a bot or manual?

----------


## amonasro

> Well seems worse case.   Nothing better than busting your ass all day for a $100 to come home to 4 figure losses. 
> 
> 
> $#@! it.



Dont be too discouraged--the thing I hate most about Finex is that it shows you exactly how much your losing position is down. And I happen to think you're ultimately right about LTC--it's just being shaken out a bit. Still in the trading range, bouncing off 61.8.

----------


## muh_roads

> I have my ltc order set at .01325 .   Am I too low?


I don't know.  I did a spread from 0156 to 0115

----------


## muh_roads

Pres, dropping hard.  Bounce guesses?







BTFD?

----------


## muh_roads

hmmm

dumping hard...cancel all orders...lol

They are trying to create large red candles.  Funny to watch how they time it before the next tick.

----------


## amonasro

> hmmm
> 
> dumping hard...cancel all orders...lol
> 
> They are trying to create large red candles.  Funny to watch how they time it before the next tick.


They want the supply and weak hands out if the market so it's cheaper to mark up. Look for retests of the range lows until most red volume dries up. Then buy.

----------


## muh_roads

> Look for retests of the range lows until most red volume dries up. Then buy.


Which time interval?  Mind drawing "range lows"?  You just mean 012 or earlier?

https://puush.me/
This is really handy for taking quick screenshots to post online with as few clicks as possible...

----------


## muh_roads

People shorting on margin are making a killing right now with LTC.

----------


## amonasro

> Which time interval?  Mind drawing "range lows"?  You just mean 012 or earlier?
> 
> https://puush.me/
> This is really handy for taking quick screenshots to post online with as few clicks as possible...


Here's what I'm seeing... this is an incomplete Wyckoffian analysis at the 2h dissection. Not enough evidence to sell short yet. As with anything TA related it is fractal in nature and larger timeframes take precedence. On the daily chart LTC is only on the secondary test (on low volume; a telling signal). 

The story of reaccumulation is that there's overhanging supply that needs to be absorbed before the market can move up again. Rather, the market makers don't want to waste money on a rally if everyone is going to sell into it. So most of the selling and weak hands need to be removed.



*Legend:*

Preliminary support (PS): First evidence of buying entering market.
Selling climax (SC): High volume action with wide candle spreads as supply overwhelms the market. The price recovers and closes well above the low indicating high quality demand.
Automatic rally (AR): Fast and furious rally that corrects the SC, often fueled by short covering. The PS, SC and AR set the boundaries of the trading range.
Secondary test (ST): Retest of range lows. Volume is very important as it indicates how much overhanging supply is left.

As the range works itself out, volume tends to diminish as supply is absorbed. This sets up the test where the price can break in either direction. A break to the downside is preferable for a sustained rally as it removes more selling and invites retail to short. These are springs and shakeouts. The lower the volume, the better chance that the price is ready to move back up which occurs in phase D, the jumping of the creek. Phase D is a strong rally where supply has been removed, weak hands have folded at a loss and the stock is held primarily by strong hands waiting for higher prices.

----------


## Dianne

> I don't know.  I did a spread from 0156 to 0115


I woke up to my buy order being filled at .01325.    I don't know if I should be happy, or crying.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I woke up to my buy order being filled at .01325.    I don't know if I should be happy, or crying.


Looks like you're in the green so far... that is if you didn't panic already.

----------


## Dianne

> Looks like you're in the green so far... that is if you didn't panic already.


I'm still in.   I get the impression presence is somewhat bullish so I'm going to hold on.    I think this weekend may be a blood bath though.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm still in.   I get the impression presence is somewhat bullish so I'm going to hold on.    I think this weekend may be a blood bath though.


You may be right.  I don't know what's going to happen with LTC, but I do know that, sometimes, holding on can be a good thing.  I held my $7.73 litecoin short even when it went to $8.97 because I knew a correction was due.  Right now, I'm just watching from the sidelines.

----------


## Dianne

> You may be right.  I don't know what's going to happen with LTC, but I do know that, sometimes, holding on can be a good thing.  I held my $7.73 litecoin short even when it went to $8.97 because I knew a correction was due.  Right now, I'm just watching from the sidelines.


Just set new low for the day at .0123.

----------


## presence

> 


*
There is NOTHING worse than being completely correct but having failed to believe in oneself.*


Such fail.





Crypto long.
Panic hodling 0163.



I really need to quit my construction gig and move to crypto full time.    







It will bounce.


Until then.... 

I'm contracted to frame two staircases.

No quant till we're back on the top side of 0163.

----------


## muh_roads

> I really need to quit my construction gig and move to crypto full time.


Keep the job and use Bitwage. 
https://www.bitwage.co/ 

You can connect Xapo and Bitreserve to it now.

There is also BillPayforCoins.  They also work with LTC.  (edit: ooh I see they have a Debit card now too)
https://www.billpayforcoins.com/

-----------------------------------

Paul, since you are in China you can get the Xapo card right away.  I envy this.  I'll just keep using WageCan for now.

----------


## muh_roads

Broke 0121 and still dropping, crazy.

----------


## presence

I will say this.   This is not me hype pumping my bags... had I not been pouring concrete foundation and setting pressure treated sill beams all week... if I had time to trade, the quant in me would have been on the ball and buying right here.   The overworked and tired in me said $#@! it.  Because:




> I guess if he thinks the target is 08, he probably doesn't care where he gets in.




at 0119 last:  I don't care how much you paid or how much you can afford.

Right here you buy/hold litecoin and ride it to hell if need be; because this is the point of highest probability 7 day gain you'll see in the next year.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

I think I bought BTC at the wrong time

----------


## kfarnan

Presence, your skills are misplaced in construction. I need a full time cypto analyst.

----------


## presence

> Presence, your skills are misplaced in construction. I need a full time cypto analyst.


the puncture wound I now have in my ledt index dinger agrees.

two damn dine lookinf stair cases though.

----------


## muh_roads

> I have my ltc order set at .01325 .   Am I too low?


Watch RIGHT this second.  Jump between the 15m, 5m, 3, 1m

You are in profit right now.

EDIT: we need a live chatroom

----------


## amonasro

Watching a textbook inverse head & shoulders reversal play out in LTC (1h).

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> Watch RIGHT this second.  Jump between the 15m, 5m, 3, 1m
> 
> You are in profit right now.
> 
> EDIT: we need a live chatroom


The Ron Paul Forums chatroom? It requires java though I think. I uninstalled that $#@! forever ago

----------


## muh_roads

> 


The pink dot was 018

It looks like we may have crossed the small 2nd chasm.

----------


## presence

> The pink dot was 018
> 
> It looks like we may have crossed the small 2nd chasm.


agreed

----------


## zeMan

You guys do know about the whole Chinese pyramid ponzi pump scam on LTC right? That was the whole reason for this rise. Not sure if I'd touch it now other than for scalping.

----------


## amonasro

> You guys do know about the whole Chinese pyramid ponzi pump scam on LTC right? That was the whole reason for this rise. Not sure if I'd touch it now other than for scalping.


I highly doubt Mr Ponzi had synchronized pump bots working over multiple exchanges not only to keep dynamic support under LTC, but to keep BTC within a very tight range.

Although the ponzi participants may have bought a few, the coordinated efforts of whales taking position was the reason for the price rise.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> I highly doubt Mr Ponzi had synchronized pump bots working over multiple exchanges not only to keep dynamic support under LTC, but to keep BTC within a very tight range.
> 
> Although the ponzi participants may have bought a few, the coordinated efforts of whales taking position was the reason for the price rise.


uhhh by pump bots you guys mean buy a huge quantity of ltc for the purpose of selling it all back when the price skyrockets at the expense of others?

----------


## presence

> You guys do know about the whole Chinese pyramid ponzi pump scam on LTC right? That was the whole reason for this rise. Not sure if I'd touch it now other than for scalping.


Yes.  This is from July 10:





> Litecoin is on fire. It is up over 8x in one month. The whole crypto  trader community is abuzz with the astonishing price movement in  Litecoin. Other altcoins are benefiting as well. But why does Litecoin  defy gravity and continue its ascent? As always with crypto trading:  when in doubt, look to China.
>  Some inquisitive traders on Bitcointalk.org posted a video link  to a promoter telling investors to buy Litecoin, send to their address,  and receive mining returns. Here is the link to a forum on 8btc.com describing the scheme. The promoter promises an income stream, if investors will send 500 Litecoin to this address.
>  Over $76 million worth of Litecoin has been sent to the above  mentioned address. $68 million worth of Litecoin has been spent from the  address. I assume that a portion of the spent output goes to investors,  and a portion the promoter is cashing out.
>  The 9 million Litecoin that the addresses has received represents 22%  of the total Litecoin in existence. It is obvious now how the price can  go from $1 to $8 in a month. As investors feel richer because their  500 Litecoin is skyrocketing in value, they will invest more sums into  the scheme.
>  What is the promoters end goal here? The most plausible explanation  is that they are cashing out via Bitcoin. They transfer a portion of the  Litecoin received to a number of exchanges that have a liquid LTC/BTC  market. They then sell the Bitcoin for RMB on the large Chinese  exchanges. The selling pressure from the promoter explains why Bitcoin  hasnt followed Litecoin up towards $300.
>  How long can this go on? And when do you short it? The Litecoin  movement is gathering speed. The positive feedback loop, is attracting  not just victims but traders who see a rising altcoin and want to join  in on the party. Many still remember when Litecoin traded north of $40.  *Greed will take over and goad regular traders to take the plunge back  into Litecoin.* Shorting at this point is very hazardous. *Dont fight  China. With the stock market down substantially, Chinese traders will  latch onto any market that is rising.* The promoters appear to be well  organized and have a well oiled machine to reach a vast number of  traders.


https://blog.bitmex.com/chinese-prom...-ponzi-scheme/

----------


## kfarnan

Seems that btc is a more fair coin.  There was too much greed with LTC.

----------


## muh_roads

> Seems that btc is a more fair coin.  There was too much greed with LTC.


People had the same feeling about BTC in the 2nd half of 2011 at these prices.  Liquidity and user count changes things as time goes on.

Although this time it is probably different.  People are just using LTC to flip for more BTC.  The whole "silver to bitcoin's gold" thing is kinda silly.  It's really just a cute phrase, nothing more.

----------


## presence

Also from July 11:




> *Was Litecoin Pumped by a Chinese Ponzi Scheme? * July 11, 2015/in Bitcoin and Alt Coins, Crypto-Currencies, Digital Currencies /by RockyLitecoin price action has  taken the crypto community by surprise with 300% gains in value over  the course of a month. Up until things went completely parabolic a  couple of days ago, it appeared litecoin was moving up progressively in a  healthy trend with a series of bull flags.
> The litecoin block reward halving combined with the Chinese stock market crashing  and the Bitcoin blocksize debate, seemed like a recipe for the perfect  storm. While it’s true that the combination of these events created the  right conditions for a rally, there was one key ingredient that may have  been the real catalyst…
> *Chinese Marketing Ponzi Scheme*It’s  fallacious to call crypto  in and of itself,  a ponzi scheme but they  do make it easier for fraudsters to facilitate one. For starters, crypto  is money that cannot be restricted and can be laundered more easily if  you know what you’re doing (mixing services.)
> It has recently come  to light that a Chinese marketing company has been recruiting Chinese  investors into a litecoin “cloud mining” ponzi scheme. The scheme had a  price tag of 500 litecoins to enter and promised high returns of passive  income.
> This  is the address of the ponzi scheme, which shows that it had a total of  over 9 million LTC valued at around $40 million dollars. *There are only 40,694,504 litecoins in existence, which means that this scheme managed to accumulate 22% of all litecoins!*
> The  buying pressure came from over 10,000 Chinese investors which  definitely explains why the price shot up so quickly. It could be that  the litecoin block reward halving was just an excuse to sell this pump  to people.
> *Litecoin Surpassed Bitcoin Volume*$40 million  worth of buying pressure certainly would of been enough to trigger a  rally. At the peak of the parabolic buying frenzy, *litecoin was trading over $150 million which surpassed bitcoin x3.* This may have been a record breaker for litecoin volume.
> 
> *Market Manipulation and The Dump*Looking  at the ponzi wallet we can see that a rapid series of 30,000 ltc  withdrawals were made on 07/10/15, right around when the dump started to  happen. During the dump, OKCoin and Bitfinex were DDOS attacked so that  traders couldn’t access their accounts to either close positions or add  to their account to prevent liquidation from a margin call.
> ...


http://www.dailytradingprofits.com/4...-ponzi-scheme/

----------


## Dianne

I can sell my ltc right now at no loss, no gain.     Should I hold em, or fold em?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I can sell my ltc right now at no loss, no gain.     Should I hold em, or fold em?


Crytpos have been rallying lately so it's your choice. I say hold. LTC was down to 3$. No killing w/o sheer fortitude.

----------


## presence

> I can sell my ltc right now at no loss, no gain.     Should I hold em, or fold em?


absolutely I'm holding my LTC here

----------


## muh_roads

> Also from July 11:
> 
> http://www.dailytradingprofits.com/4...-ponzi-scheme/


I will now refer to litecoin as ricecoin.

----------


## Dianne

> absolutely I'm holding my LTC here


Kewl, thanks !!   I'm happy to see a little spike in it, right now.

----------


## presence

I changed the exchange generating the marketplace Honeybadger signal today from btce to bitfinex; there's some obvious market manipulation going on at the moment at btce (left):

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I think I bought BTC at the wrong time


Potential cup and handle pattern

Here are some criteria and notes taken from http://www.investopedia.com/universi...ts/charts3.asp

- This is a bullish continuation pattern where the upward trend has paused, and traded down, but will continue in an upward direction upon the completion of the pattern.
- First, it's important that there is an upward trend before the formation of the cup and handle.*<- check*
- The construct of the cup itself is also important: it should be a nicely rounded formation, similar to a semi-circle. *<- check?*
- The reason is that a cup-and-handle pattern is a signal of consolidation within a trend, where the weaker investors leave the market and new buyers and resolute holders stay in the security. *<- fundamentally plausible*
- A traditional cup-and-handle pattern should be between one-third and two-thirds the size of the previous upward movement. *<- check*
- During this downward move, a descending trendline can be drawn, which forms the signal for the breakout. A move by the security above this descending trendline is a signal that the prior upward trend is set to begin. *<- let's see*

----------


## amonasro

> I can sell my ltc right now at no loss, no gain.     Should I hold em, or fold em?


Market looks pretty well bottomed out here, with a good show of strength in LTC and yesterday's daily candle closing in the green in BTC. That and we have the 50 day MA crossing the 200 day MA right behind us--I say hold. Set your stops to break even or use a trailing stop once the rally gets going.

----------


## bullhammer

Hey Litepresence! Finally joined your forum! going to try and post before I comment any further.......

----------


## bullhammer

Hey Litepresence! I finally joined your forum! I've been following you and everyone else on here for some time and really enjoy your tech analysis and commentary. I admire your honesty and transparency too ( e.g. came home to triple digit losses after slaving all day) thanks again for helping me get some of my coins off Cvirtex too. I was surprised when you got back into LTC too soon after calling for 0.012, I saw a classic A B C correction to $3 ltc forming and wanted to comment here but hadn't joined yet. That was another epic call you made.
We do have a lot in common actually, Im a contractor in construction (puncture wounds in several fingers) I really enjoy trading crypto currencies and I have a young son too. On a side note, wondering what your thoughts are on BTC-e? I was watching today as a HUGE drop happened in BTC?  Also there seems to be so little BTC on the exchange? Reminds me of when Gox was in its last days???

----------


## presence

> Hey Litepresence! 
> 
> []
> 
> wondering what your thoughts are on BTC-e? I was watching today as a HUGE drop happened in BTC?  Also there seems to be so little BTC on the exchange? Reminds me of when Gox was in its last days???



I have always used btce to generate the honey badger signal which I currently send to about 35 live traders;  I moved the signal today to follow bitfinex exchange because of how far btce is from the market average.


I'm of the opinion that the majority of coins for sale on the book are spoofed and are being used by a single party as down pressue to collect at $12 under market price.   There seems to be difficulty moving USD from the US onto BTCe exchange and this individual seems to be exploiting that bottleneck; perhaps from an EU country with better access.

----------


## bullhammer

> I have always used btce to generate the honey badger signal which I currently send to about 35 live traders;  I moved the signal today to follow bitfinex exchange because of how far btce is from the market average.
> 
> 
> I'm of the opinion that the majority of coins for sale on the book are spoofed and are being used by a single party as down pressue to collect at $12 under market price.   There seems to be difficulty moving USD from the US onto BTCe exchange and this individual seems to be exploiting that bottleneck; perhaps from an EU country with better access.



Do you feel the exchange is still safe to have significant amount of coins left on it? I remember you saying you trust those guys......,   I'm kinda nervous especially after what happened with mintpal, etc.

----------


## Dianne

> Market looks pretty well bottomed out here, with a good show of strength in LTC and yesterday's daily candle closing in the green in BTC. That and we have the 50 day MA crossing the 200 day MA right behind us--I say hold. Set your stops to break even or use a trailing stop once the rally gets going.


Thank you !!

----------


## Dianne

> Hey Litepresence! I finally joined your forum! I've been following you and everyone else on here for some time and really enjoy your tech analysis and commentary. I admire your honesty and transparency too ( e.g. came home to triple digit losses after slaving all day) thanks again for helping me get some of my coins off Cvirtex too. I was surprised when you got back into LTC too soon after calling for 0.012, I saw a classic A B C correction to $3 ltc forming and wanted to comment here but hadn't joined yet. That was another epic call you made.
> We do have a lot in common actually, Im a contractor in construction (puncture wounds in several fingers) I really enjoy trading crypto currencies and I have a young son too. On a side note, wondering what your thoughts are on BTC-e? I was watching today as a HUGE drop happened in BTC?  Also there seems to be so little BTC on the exchange? Reminds me of when Gox was in its last days???


I still can't figure out how there was a btc drop to $150. last night, when all other exchanges were roughly $270.

----------


## kpitcher

> I still can't figure out how there was a btc drop to $150. last night, when all other exchanges were roughly $270.


Wonder who got hacked to cause such a big drop? Last time that happened someone just wanted to dump as much btc as possible.

----------


## kpitcher

> I still can't figure out how there was a btc drop to $150. last night, when all other exchanges were roughly $270.


Wonder who got hacked to cause such a big drop? Last time that happened someone just wanted to dump as much btc as possible.

----------


## muh_roads

> Wonder who got hacked to cause such a big drop? Last time that happened someone just wanted to dump as much btc as possible.


The btc-e orderbooks are kinda thin.  A noob trader with a lot of coin might've just panic sold.  A lot of old-school miners are starting to trade, I think.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

btc dropped to 150 last night?! I shouldve bought a $#@! ton and nearly double my money!

----------


## kpitcher

> btc dropped to 150 last night?! I shouldve bought a $#@! ton and nearly double my money!


I can only assume that was gobbled up instantly by orders. After it dropped to $1 awhile ago on the major dump of some hacked coins there are some low walls just in case something like that happens again.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> I can only assume that was gobbled up instantly by orders. After it dropped to $1 awhile ago on the major dump of some hacked coins there are some low walls just in case something like that happens again.


$1?! I COULD'VE BEEN A MILLIONAIRE NOOOOO

----------


## presence

> The btc-e orderbooks are kinda thin.  A noob trader with a lot of coin might've just panic sold.  A lot of old-school miners are starting to trade, I think.


I agree the books at btce can be thin.   I suspect that was the case yesterday morning..... however I do not suspect it was a fat fingered "noob" because instantly the sell side of the book became relatively huge with down pressure.   I suspect it was orchestrated to buy coins 5-10% below the market average as btce stayed depressed with heavy down pressure for the past 24 hours.  I believe the book was purposefully scrubbed at an opportune moment and the event orchestrated through the day as HFT script front ran orders collecting 265 coins while other exchanges held steady at 277.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

PPC RED
NMC ORANGE
NVC PURPLE
LTC SHADED AQUA w/ PINK


https://www.tradingview.com/chart/hdotbNmz/#

----------


## bullhammer

> PPC RED
> NMC ORANGE
> NVC PURPLE
> LTC SHADED AQUA w/ PINK
> 
> 
> https://www.tradingview.com/chart/hdotbNmz/#




I think we may re-test the lows? last low @$3.18?  could even test the mid 2s ? The chart pattern lately is so hard to read? maybe because of the manipulation etc.? Im lightening up my position, still very bullish long and med term!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I think we may re-test the lows? last low @$3.18?  could even test the mid 2s ? The chart pattern lately is so hard to read? maybe because of the manipulation etc.? Im lightening up my position, still very bullish long and med term!


Time to leave, hoe. Your account won't be alive for much longer.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> $1?! I COULD'VE BEEN A MILLIONAIRE NOOOOO


That's what I've been telling myself ever since bitcoin was a thing.  I could've been a millionaire if I could just predict the future.

----------


## bullhammer

> Time to leave, hoe. Your account won't be alive for much longer.



Why the hostility Mr Rebel? Isn't this a Ron Paul Site? Last time I checked he stands for Freedom, including freedom of opinion on the markets! Not sure maybe my opinion offends you but we did get down to 3.43, thats only two bits from the 3.18 low? could have easily tested it! Im glad it didn't cause Im almost all in LTC!

----------


## Dianne

Is btc-e under a ddos attack?    I can't get it to open.

----------


## presence

So I've been acquiring a bit of DASH (formerly Darkcoin)

Here's what I like about it:


On fundamentals:
1) its the only alt traded at high volume bitfinex besides LTC
2) it has 1/3 the coin supply of BTC; 1/8th the supply of LTC an its trading at par with LTC to the USD 
3) its currently #4 in market cap behind BTC LTC and XRP


On technical merit: (its not a $#@! coin)
1) its has a focus on privacy that BTC LTC and obviously XRP lack
2) its designed to be asic resistant
3) its credit card FAST https://www.dashpay.io/instantx/
4) there's more than enough white paper to let you know the coin devs mean business.

Now... on technical analysis (which is all I really care about  ) :

Here's 12h SMA 30/60/90/150.  You can see DRKUSD made a "Green Dragon Cross" about 10 days ago and has since settled out from its initial spike.  DRKBTC is making a "Green Dragon CRoss" today;  meaning 30>60>90>150.   These crosses tend to persist for 8 weeks or more.



here's 

DASH to LTC (Litecoin) ratio at cryptsy on 3d candles:



Note the bounce at the bottom.

Zooming in on that bounce on 8h candles:



Now admittedly finer resolutions of DRK/LTC ratio is pretty pink noise... but 3d and 8h shows a clear reversal; I can't pull up moving averages but I expect, if I could plot DRK/LTC on 12h and add in 12h 30/60/90/150 I'd see either an impending or realized "Green Dragon" cross; meaning DRK is bulling not only Bitcoin and the USD but its back to bulling Litecoin as well.

Given Bitcoin is a green dragon; litecoin is bouncing out of  despair and dark is bulling them both:  I see a quantitatively gorgeous leveraged bet.

Dash is relatively small in terms of daily trade volume however there are three solid avenues for aquiring coins without pushing the market:

Bitfinex offers "hidden orders" for both drkusd and drkbtc; so you can be a hidden wall of iceberg support for a price level and just let people sell into you;  I susepect if you keep your hidden buy wall near the top side margin on 30m you'd have no trouble aquiring 1000 DASH overnight.

Also at Cryptsy; I suspect buying anything under 1:1 DRKLTC parity would net you a 1000 coins within a few hours of manual accumulation.


Like any investment nothing is assured when trading DRK; this is a HIGHLY VOLATILE asset;  it has been as much as 3X to as little as 0.3X the value of LTC in the past 90 days; this said I think buying at parity after the bounce from 0.3X is a cozy entry.


websites:

http://dashcoin.net/
https://www.dashpay.io/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash_%28cryptocurrency%29

charts:
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/drkbtc
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/drkusd
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex//drkbtc
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/dash/#charts
https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_dash
https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/DASH_LTC
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-DASH
http://altcoinlive.com/cryptsy-dash-ltc





interesting article on the rebranding here:
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113781...oment-too-soon

----------


## presence

_  There is depicted here a ruler, or influential man, to whom people are 
attracted. Those who come to him he accepts, those who do not come are 
allowed to go their own way. He invited none, flatters none—all come of 
their own free will. In this way there develops a voluntary dependence 
among those who hold him. They do not have to be constantly on their 
guard but may express their opinions openly. Police measures are not 
necessary, and they cleave to their ruler of their own volition. The same 
principle of freedom is valid for life in general. We should not woo favor 
from people. If a man cultivates within himself the purity and the strength 
that are necessary for one who is the center of a fellowship, those who are 
meant for him come of their own accord.

I Ching 

8. - Pi / Holding Together




_

----------


## presence

btce via twitter




> BTC-Ebtcecom 1h1 hour ago
> 
> Update: Updating and output Bitcoin works! LTC, NMC, NVC, PPC will soon be available #btce
> 4 retweets 1 favorite
> BTC-Ebtcecom 2h2 hours ago
> 
> Update: Eliminating accident in the data center continues. (It does not work completion and output Koinov.) Thank you for your understanding. #btce
> 3 0 retweets favorites
> BTC-Ebtcecom 5h5 hours ago
> ...

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

Thinking BTC will go up and LTC will pullback a bit.  That 3d MACD looks like it wants to go off a cliff.

----------


## amonasro

Anyone currently trading and especially those new to trading *MUST read all of these articles right now.* Bruce Fraser is an amazing teacher.

Wyckoff Power Charting

----------


## Dianne

> Anyone currently trading and especially those new to trading *MUST read all of these articles right now.* Bruce Fraser is an amazing teacher.
> 
> Wyckoff Power Charting


Thanks, I needed that !

----------


## Tycoon

any update on LTC? are you still bullish?

----------


## presence

> any update on LTC? are you still bullish?


yes, holding LTC.   I actually called (in trollbox) and played a pretty sweet short the other day; sold 01432 bought 01355; holding.  BTCe high and low for the wave was 01438 and 01336.   




Wwe are, however, at a very pivotal consolidation:  I suspect we will break up. 



watch 10, 25, 50, 270 sma's on 4h for guidance

----------


## muh_roads

> yes, holding LTC.   I actually called (in trollbox) and played a pretty sweet short the other day; sold 01432 bought 01355; holding.  BTCe high and low for the wave was 01438 and 01336.   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wwe are, however, at a very pivotal consolidation:  I suspect we will break up. 
> 
> 
> 
> watch 10, 25, 50, 270 sma's on 4h for guidance


AKA, hold and keep an eye on it in case we need to dump?

I actually sold the top also when I seen litepres2 make that call.  But didn't buy back in.  derp.

I think I'm starting to get the hang of divergence...maybe.

----------


## presence

Another perspective on the ltcbtc consolidation:

SMA 1d 2, 4, 6, 8; no price line







> AKA, hold and keep an eye on it in case we need to dump?



more or less; I'm pretty confident BTC is going to wave up to $435.   That means money moving in.   Money moving in means alts keep pumping.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Look, LTC is going up at this point. Way up. It's a must buy at this point. Say hi to your daddy!

----------


## djthistle01

sup noobs. i am new to crypto, anything i should be investing in? I here going all in on new coins is the way to go. 

i kid of course.... 

here is my LTC chart, people seem to like it. https://www.tradingview.com/chart/LT...Space-Station/

though i am bullish i am not as set in seeing a rise right away as LP is. my indicators are mixed. the 4H and lower if pulling more bull than bear signals. 1D is droppin' heiken ashi doji's like there is no tomorrow. small position but i am playing the break overall.

----------


## djthistle01

for those of you that know me...hello! been a long while, hope you are all well.

For those of you don't, i'm a chart nerd that teaches TA. feel free to check out the site/follow/whatever. always room for new members too. 

Social Media: https://twitter.com/DJThistle01
Charting: https://www.tradingview.com/u/djthistle01/
Website: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/
Lesson Forum: Private

----------


## Dianne

What does everyone think about the LTC pump this morning?     Is it over, or are we going up further?

----------


## bullhammer

I'm guessing we are going up at least to $5/ltc. Any traders out there know of any sectors or indexes that are very positively or negatively correlated to LTC or BTC? Or maybe a commodity or stock for that matter?

----------


## amonasro

> What does everyone think about the LTC pump this morning?     Is it over, or are we going up further?


Keep an eye on the longer term charts (4/6/12h) for expanding price and volume action to continue. If it does, I could see LTC blowing past $5 and retracing to $7-8 if the BTC rally continues, which I think is probable. What you want to watch for is supply entering during the sideways consolidation zones, as that's the major hurdle to the success of a rally. When there's no supply during consolidation in a rally, the market will want to continue buying and move up.

If the major market makers are bullish and participating in the rally, I expect an easy retest of $315, which will pull LTC to test the top of the range as well.

----------


## Dianne

What are some of the creative ways you guys take money out of an exchange?    I don't necessarily want btc funds deposited in my bank account.

----------


## bullhammer

> What are some of the creative ways you guys take money out of an exchange?    I don't necessarily want btc funds deposited in my bank account.





you could use ( https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=2g7k ) as an option. 
just take coins off exchange and sell directly to other people, with a premium as well!

----------


## Dianne

> you could use ( https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=2g7k ) as an option. 
> just take coins off exchange and sell directly to other people, with a premium as well!


Doesn't the payment still end up in your bank account?

----------


## Barrex

> Doesn't the payment still end up in your bank account?


No. You meet with that person in person..... person person.- cash for bitcoins.

----------


## kfarnan

> No. You meet with that person in person..... person person.- cash for bitcoins.


@Dianne. There are btc atms. www.coinatmradar.com/

----------


## Dianne

> @Dianne. There are btc atms. www.coinatmradar.com/


Wow, found one in Chapel Hill, N.C.    When I get to that point, you guys will have to tell me how to use an atm.    Right now all my coins are stored at coinbase.

----------


## presence

> I'm guessing we are going up at least to $5/ltc. Any traders out there know of any sectors or indexes that are very positively or negatively correlated to LTC or BTC? Or maybe a commodity or stock for that matter?


All of the BTCe alts are very positively correlated to LTC: PPC NMC NVC.

see  post 3834 
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5927034

Also.  There is the correlation that when BTCe price is greater than other exchanges, buy LTC.


*                   If btcusd at btce > stamp and finex, buy ltcbtc, else sell ltcbtc                *

----------


## presence

2h finex ltcbtc




Expect support at 0151, resistance at 0165; affirmed support at 0155

Then 

036

----------


## presence

> 2h finex ltcbtc
> 
> Expect support at 0151, resistance at 0165; affirmed support at 0155
> 
> Then 
> 
> 036



As I was posting we hit a low of 01506.

Next march to 0165 overnight

----------


## presence

> 





*EXPECT THE CUP HANDLE IN THE NEXT 48 HOURS

SELL 0335
BUY 0270
SELL 0355
BUY 0270 AGAIN

RATTLE TRAP THE HANDLE FOR HUGE POWER PLAY
*

----------


## muh_roads

Sold 017
Back in 0155-0159

Fun.

Edit: Trying to keep my excitement to a minimum right now as we go thru this.  Superstition.

----------


## presence

> As I was posting we hit a low of 01506.
> 
> Next march to 0165 overnight


seems the overnight high was only 01637; I missed my short trip to 0155... no worries; I only like to play shorts if I can be banker man on the wide sides of the margin on long candle wicks 

hodling 01595 last ; expecting a strong show of support at 0155


also still holding DRK at 01300


Which pops first?  


New money moving into crypto.   Finex at 292 this morning.   Honeybader Pro still holding from May 1 @ $235.   BTCUSD "Green Dragon" continues. 


A portfolio of BTCe and Bitfinex Alts is a good place to be here.

----------


## staerker

> Wow, found one in Chapel Hill, N.C.    When I get to that point, you guys will have to tell me how to use an atm.    Right now all my coins are stored at coinbase.


Depending on how much you have, it may be worth the effort: one in Lancaster, PA claims 0% Fees, and no limits.

Sounds too good to be true though.

----------


## Dianne

> Sold 017
> Back in 0155-0159
> 
> Fun.
> 
> Edit: Trying to keep my excitement to a minimum right now as we go thru this.  Superstition.


I went back in at 01585 .   Now I guess it's the waiting game.

----------


## presence

> Edit: Trying to keep my excitement to a minimum right now as we go thru this.  Superstition.


lol its almost painful

----------


## muh_roads

> lol its almost painful


Indeed it is.

Uh oh, price action tonight.

----------


## muh_roads

> I went back in at 01585 .   Now I guess it's the waiting game.


You're in the green again.

Looking like bull season is back.

----------


## amonasro

Both LTC and BTC popping upwards.

Even if there was a chance of a big double top at $315, I don't think there would be enough ammo to take it down. Seems as if a handful of whales are in control of the majority of available coins and they don't plan on selling here.

----------


## Dianne

> You're in the green again.
> 
> Looking like bull season is back.


Right now, not losing.      Presence prediction of .03 seems way out there to me.   I'll probably be happy to get to .017 and out lol.

----------


## muh_roads

Where is the rest of RPF?

I want more rich libertarians in here.  You really want Nasdaq, NYSE and Goldman Sachs to be alone at the top again?

----------


## Dianne

> Where is the rest of RPF?
> 
> I want more rich libertarians in here.  You really want Nasdaq, NYSE and Goldman Sachs to be alone at the top again?


No chit !!

----------


## kfarnan

How do you place your stop loss limits?

----------


## amonasro

> How do you place your stop loss limits?


Strategically, below support. Often the final shakeout in the trading range (before the price rockets back up) will hit stops just below support. Market operators do this so the stops fill their buy orders and tempt the short sellers.

----------


## Crashland

> Where is the rest of RPF?
> 
> I want more rich libertarians in here.  You really want Nasdaq, NYSE and Goldman Sachs to be alone at the top again?


I'm still around, lurking.

Not wanting NYSE/Nasdaq to be alone at the top isn't necessarily a good reason to invest in crypto. That said, I am invested in crypto and have been holding mostly BTC for awhile now, and am also holding a smaller amount of DASH, LTC, and XCP which I think are all likely to follow BTC possibly several times over in either direction. I do think more people need to get into crypto for the sake of crypto though and not for the sake of technical analysis trading. But in that regard it is kind of hard to bring people in, even in the liberty movement.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Where is the rest of RPF?
> 
> I want more rich libertarians in here.  You really want Nasdaq, NYSE and Goldman Sachs to be alone at the top again?


I was listening to the Alex Jones show today on my ride home tonight and David Knight was talking about bitcoin and specifically the blockchain to secure elections and stuff so perhaps this was a major positive towards liberty types that pump that show. The blockchain tech is the backbone of the Bit and is inseparable so that is what might give it more legitimacy to those that don't understand the coin part. Can't have one w/o the other.

Btw Dianne, did you sell out at .017?

----------


## muh_roads

We need a name to put in our sigs with a link to this board.

Ron Paul Forum Bitcoin Army



...or something else.

----------


## muh_roads

The litecoin party is definitely on btc-e.  Bitfinex orderbook & volume is boring to watch.

The spread is strangely bad also.  I'm a bit shocked there isn't a bot filling the book with more micro orders at least.

----------


## Dianne

> I was listening to the Alex Jones show today on my ride home tonight and David Knight was talking about bitcoin and specifically the blockchain to secure elections and stuff so perhaps this was a major positive towards liberty types that pump that show. The blockchain tech is the backbone of the Bit and is inseparable so that is what might give it more legitimacy to those that don't understand the coin part. Can't have one w/o the other.
> 
> Btw Dianne, did you sell out at .017?


No, I'm still holding.    Should I sell and try to buy back cheaper?

----------


## Barrex

> I was listening to the Alex Jones show today on my ride home tonight and David Knight was talking about bitcoin and specifically the blockchain to secure elections and stuff so perhaps this was a major positive towards liberty types that pump that show. The blockchain tech is the backbone of the Bit and is inseparable so that is what might give it more legitimacy to those that don't understand the coin part. Can't have one w/o the other.
> 
> Btw Dianne, did you sell out at .017?


Sorry but you can have blockchain technology without Bitcoin.

----------


## kfarnan

> Sorry but you can have blockchain technology without Bitcoin.


There does need to be an incentive though.  OR, it won't be decentralized, or have the value that provides.

----------


## Dianne

Are you guys still holding LTC?

----------


## Dianne

> Are you guys still holding LTC?


The silence is deafening.   I assume this means no one has a prediction.   To be safe, I'm going to dump at 01730 and see what tomorrow brings.

----------


## muh_roads

> The silence is deafening.   I assume this means no one has a prediction.   To be safe, I'm going to dump at 01730 and see what tomorrow brings.


I'm still in.

Going to buy more if it drops.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I'm still in.
> 
> Going to buy more if it drops.


That's pretty much where I'm at but I can't blame D for taking a decent profit.

----------


## muh_roads

> Sorry but you can have blockchain technology without Bitcoin.


Don't go bearish on me man.  We need more RPF'ers.  

kfarnan is correct.  There is an economic incentive to keeping an open decentralized system so its hashrate is in the lead.

What good is Citicoin?  What good is an internal block chain that only banks & businesses can see and operate?

Some say the block chain is more about automation and not decentralization.  That doesn't make sense because you don't need a block chain for automation.

Smart contracts sound neat, I guess.  But the block chain was always about decentralized P2P e-cash.  I'll buy Ethereum & Factom, but only to flip them for more bitcoin.

----------


## muh_roads

A perfect storm possibly brewing with LTCUSD rising and BTCUSD falling a bit.  Causing the LTC/BTC pair to rise.

----------


## bullhammer

> Are you guys still holding LTC?



I'm still 100 % LTC, my $5 target hit today but still holding, need to follow through soon thou I think

----------


## presence

> Are you guys still holding LTC?


YES

Sell orders set for 0335

rebuying 0270's

I expect an opportunity to make that trade twice in a very short period in about 10-12 days.

----------


## Dianne

> YES
> 
> Sell orders set for 0335
> 
> rebuying 0270's
> 
> I expect an opportunity to make that trade twice in a very short period in about 10-12 days.


Great, thanks.

----------


## kfarnan

> YES
> 
> Sell orders set for 0335
> 
> rebuying 0270's
> 
> I expect an opportunity to make that trade twice in a very short period in about 10-12 days.



Are your sell/buy orders executed manually or by computer?

----------


## Crashland

I've actually been a little bit intrigued by DASH lately after reading up on it. The fact that "masternodes" receive a chunk of the block reward at VERY little cost to run, yet you need to lock 1000 DASH in order to run a masternode, is brilliant, though I can't make up my mind if it is brilliantly good or brilliantly diabolical. Currently half the entire market cap is locked up in masternodes. The incentive to host and keep masternodes results in a huge chunk of the mined DASH being brought out of circulation (propping up the market price), and at the same time the limited number of masternodes provides mixing and fast-txn services for the entire userbase much more efficiently than it would be with all normal nodes. Sick. It seems like a pyramid but when I think about it more deeply I don't know, seems like the market could just reach a sort of equilibrium.

----------


## Dianne

> I've actually been a little bit intrigued by DASH lately after reading up on it. The fact that "masternodes" receive a chunk of the block reward at VERY little cost to run, yet you need to lock 1000 DASH in order to run a masternode, is brilliant, though I can't make up my mind if it is brilliantly good or brilliantly diabolical. Currently half the entire market cap is locked up in masternodes. The incentive to host and keep masternodes results in a huge chunk of the mined DASH being brought out of circulation (propping up the market price), and at the same time the limited number of masternodes provides mixing and fast-txn services for the entire userbase much more efficiently than it would be with all normal nodes. Sick. It seems like a pyramid but when I think about it more deeply I don't know, seems like the market could just reach a sort of equilibrium.


That went way over my head.   Presence is the "Dash" man.   It does sound interesting though, so I will research a bit myself.

----------


## muh_roads

> I've actually been a little bit intrigued by DASH lately after reading up on it. The fact that "masternodes" receive a chunk of the block reward at VERY little cost to run, yet you need to lock 1000 DASH in order to run a masternode, is brilliant, though I can't make up my mind if it is brilliantly good or brilliantly diabolical. Currently half the entire market cap is locked up in masternodes. The incentive to host and keep masternodes results in a huge chunk of the mined DASH being brought out of circulation (propping up the market price), and at the same time the limited number of masternodes provides mixing and fast-txn services for the entire userbase much more efficiently than it would be with all normal nodes. Sick. It seems like a pyramid but when I think about it more deeply I don't know, seems like the market could just reach a sort of equilibrium.


Is that new?

I have to be honest, I was sort of interested in dash until you said that.  Sounds a bit socialist like proof-of-stake and it'll make the price less predictable.  Getting something that wasn't difficult to attain (getting something for virtually nothing) tends to never work out in the end.  People staked a bunch of $#@!coins in 2014 only to dump the price down on ppl to nothing.  While I'm not super happy about the current state of bitcoin mining which isn't all that ideal for the average person, proof-of-work is still the most capitalist form of transaction confirmation IMO.

I know this isn't staking but it sounds very similar.  If bitcoin had that type of system where the top 1% reaps the most reward, I don't think we'd be where we are.  The top 1% currently enjoys the spot price.  But under the dash system you're giving the top 1% not only the USD advantage, but a perpetual coin advantage too.  The last part seems a bit scary like the Fed.

Flipping for more BTC I'm sure is still possible, just a lot less predictable I'd think.  I'm glad LTC remains proof-of-work only.

I guess in the end, all that matters is "buy the dip".  Getting surprised dumped on might just be easier for the market makers though.

----------


## Crashland

> Is that new?
> 
> I have to be honest, I was sort of interested in dash until you said that.  Sounds a bit socialist like proof-of-stake and it'll make the price less predictable.  Getting something that wasn't difficult to attain (getting something for virtually nothing) tends to never work out in the end.  People staked a bunch of $#@!coins in 2014 only to dump the price down on ppl to nothing.  While I'm not super happy about the current state of bitcoin mining which isn't all that ideal for the average person, proof-of-work is still the most capitalist form of transaction confirmation IMO.
> 
> I know this isn't staking but it sounds very similar.  If bitcoin had that type of system where the top 1% reaps the most reward, I don't think we'd be where we are.  The top 1% currently enjoys the spot price.  But under the dash system you're giving the top 1% not only the USD advantage, but a perpetual coin advantage too.  The last part seems a bit scary like the Fed.
> 
> Flipping for more BTC I'm sure is still possible, just a lot less predictable I'd think.  I'm glad LTC remains proof-of-work only.
> 
> I guess in the end, all that matters is "buy the dip".  Getting surprised dumped on might just be easier for the market makers though.


The Dash people like to call the masternode system as "proof-of-service", which I think is an interesting idea to combine with proof-of-stake, but I don't think they should have had too much of it come out of the ordinary mining block reward, right now it is like 40% of the block reward which is way too much. If people want to pay a little extra for more coin mixing or fast transactions, then that extra fee should be more where it comes from. The staking piece was supposedly designed to limit the number of masternodes and to make it cost-prohibitive to control 51% of them. But yeah as I said, the design I think is intriguing and someone should probably get a prize or go to jail, or both :-P I'm kind of bullish on the price though because it is the most well-established privacy-oriented coin, so I think the demand will stay fairly strong.

----------


## muh_roads

Did you sell at 0173 Dianne?  Check out that fomo doji to 02 on bitfinex, haha.  It's weird because I was thinking of setting hidden limit orders around 019.  Totally should've done that.

It's hard to shake the feeling that LTC will just dead cat bounce downward for a while after a massive pump.  We'll see if I should've taken my own advice when I warned of the macd at higher time frames.  They still aren't looking too good.  That 1d looks scary and the div on the 3d looks too high.

I'm telling ya, superstition.  Use me as an indicator.  When I get excited, sell.  I'm feeling bearish so now is the time to buy...maybe...lol

----------


## Crashland

Oh goodness, its worse than I thought, the DASH master node payout percentage goes up every month for several months until it gets like over 60%. Really no logical explanation for that other than to make early stakeholders a lot of money off of people hoping for even higher returns. Makes me think there will be a bubble and then crash

----------


## muh_roads

> Oh goodness, its worse than I thought, the DASH master node payout percentage goes up every month for several months until it gets like over 60%. Really no logical explanation for that other than to make early stakeholders a lot of money off of people hoping for even higher returns. Makes me think there will be a bubble and then crash


Yikes.  I like your idea of mixing proof-of-work with "proof-of-service".  Masternodes get the fees, and proof-of-work gets the new coins for confirming transactions.

----------


## Dianne

> Did you sell at 0173 Dianne?  Check out that fomo doji to 02 on bitfinex, haha.  It's weird because I was thinking of setting hidden limit orders around 019.  Totally should've done that.
> 
> It's hard to shake the feeling that LTC will just dead cat bounce downward for a while after a massive pump.  We'll see if I should've taken my own advice when I warned of the macd at higher time frames.  They still aren't looking too good.  That 1d looks scary and the div on the 3d looks too high.
> 
> I'm telling ya, superstition.  Use me as an indicator.  When I get excited, sell.  I'm feeling bearish so now is the time to buy...maybe...lol


I'm still holding.   I'm sticking with presence advice that we're going up in a couple of weeks.    You and your superstition, me and my bad luck.    If I'm holding or buying , that should be a clear indication to everyone to prepare for a free fall, lol..     As of where we stand right now, I'm not hurt that much.   If we dump back to 013 that will be a different story.

Are you still holding?    Maybe presence will post what he expects the next few days.

----------


## bullhammer

> YES
> 
> Sell orders set for 0335
> 
> rebuying 0270's
> 
> I expect an opportunity to make that trade twice in a very short period in about 10-12 days.



LP I like your style! 
Is your call for 0335 based on fractal only or is there other analysis that confirms it?
Also with this new bull trend established do you take a different strategy in trading or in your holdings ?
I'm thinking holding a core position of coins say %50 ,  and trading the other %50.......could be a good strategy ?

----------


## bullhammer

> I'm still holding.   I'm sticking with presence advice that we're going up in a couple of weeks.    You and your superstition, me and my bad luck.    If I'm holding or buying , that should be a clear indication to everyone to prepare for a free fall, lol..     As of where we stand right now, I'm not hurt that much.   If we dump back to 013 that will be a different story.
> 
> Are you still holding?    Maybe presence will post what he expects the next few days.


Glad you're still holding.......I'm still %100 in LTC!!!

----------


## Dianne

> Glad you're still holding.......I'm still %100 in LTC!!!


Lol, good !!!   That makes me feel better.    This thread isn't popping like it used too, takes hours normally to get any response.    Normally, in months passed, I would have sold by now because of panic.     The thread has taught me to have a little patience.    So I will close my eyes and hold my nose, just as McCain's Grandmother told voters to do when voting for her Grandson and not over analyze the current charts.

----------


## presence

Tradewave just added "old MTGox data"



*
Honeybadger Freeware* vs 2010 through Jan 1 2013


```
[2012-12-31 08:00:00] Buy and Hold Gain.: 48.67X
[2012-12-31 08:00:00] Asset Gain........: 0.25X
[2012-12-31 08:00:00] Currency Gain.....: 12.00X
```



*Honeybadger Pro vs same "dawn of BTC" period:
*


```
[2012-12-31 06:09:00] B-n-H Gain....: x48.7
[2012-12-31 06:09:00] Crypto Gain...: x5.04
[2012-12-31 06:09:00] Cash Gain.....: x245.50
```


The pro version performs 5X bitcoin (245X USD) on its first attempt on "new" backtest data.


check out the capituation and despair calls in August 2012




That was the whole period on 12h candles.  This is just the summer 2012 on 1h candles:

----------


## amonasro

> Lol, good !!!   That makes me feel better.    This thread isn't popping like it used too, takes hours normally to get any response.    Normally, in months passed, I would have sold by now because of panic.     The thread has taught me to have a little patience.    So I will close my eyes and hold my nose, just as McCain's Grandmother told voters to do when voting for her Grandson and not over analyze the current charts.


Still holding as well, about 50/50 btc/ltc. Sometimes you just have to wait for the market to work itself out.

----------


## muh_roads

> Lol, good !!!   That makes me feel better.    This thread isn't popping like it used too, takes hours normally to get any response.    Normally, in months passed, I would have sold by now because of panic.     The thread has taught me to have a little patience.    So I will close my eyes and hold my nose, just as McCain's Grandmother told voters to do when voting for her Grandson and not over analyze the current charts.


Yep still in.  Bought more between 0157-0159.  Thought about selling when it went to 0166 yesterday but didn't.

Sorry about the late response.  Didn't mean to make you nervous, heh.  I have only been making time for posting in the morning and evenings.  Working on a piece of software that is about to go gold soon and the only time I have been making for crypto is a bathroom break with my zTrader app.

Last night I was mattress shopping because my weak back muscles are still killing me from moving a couple refrigerators a few weeks ago. lol

----------


## Dianne

Kewl, thanks for posting guys.    I'll keep sitting tight then.   Good luck with your software project muh_roads.   Did you check out overstock.com for a mattress?   I'm not sure if they have them, but at least you can pay with btc if they do lol.

----------


## Tycoon

this looks so much like recent LTC rise to $8. just saying. I have close to zero clue about TA.

----------


## Dianne

> this looks so much like recent LTC rise to $8. just saying. I have close to zero clue about TA.


Looks like we imploded last night.   I hope you're right.

----------


## muh_roads

I wanna bail if we can get a bounce on the 4H since it feels like this wants to head to 250-260 now.  We had a good thing going but kiddies kept selling it down.

As for LTC, I have no clue what that could do.  Illiquid.

Talk me out of the crazy.




> Still holding as well, about 50/50 btc/ltc.  Sometimes you just have to wait for the market to work itself  out.


What are your thoughts right now?  50% LTC is big balls man.

----------


## Dianne

> I wanna bail if we can get a bounce on the 4H since it feels like this wants to head to 250-260 now.  We had a good thing going but kiddies kept selling it down.
> 
> As for LTC, I have no clue what that could do.  Illiquid.
> 
> Talk me out of the crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts right now?  50% LTC is big balls man.


   I'm not sure what to do either.    I'm all in ltc on btc-e and planning to hold.   I have btc at coinbase, I'm debating whether or not to sell.   I hate when we have a crash on the weekend.   Not many peeps are checking the forums.

----------


## presence

http://thepatternsite.com/cup.html 
http://thepatternsite.com/roundb.html

----------


## muh_roads

> http://thepatternsite.com/cup.html 
> http://thepatternsite.com/roundb.html


If I knew how to be a market maker, I'd do that pattern and then dump.  Patterns like that feel like astrology.  fib lines, elliot wave and divergence indicators feel more like science to me.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm not sure what to do either.    I'm all in ltc on btc-e and planning to hold.   I have btc at coinbase, I'm debating whether or not to sell.   I hate when we have a crash on the weekend.   Not many peeps are checking the forums.


In terms of BTC, if you are playing with an amount of coins that is 100+, I would be willing to take that sell risk to scoop for more.  If you are playing with 10-20...I dunno.  Maybe?  I think you are doing quite well adding 1 coin every paycheck.

Those bottom double-digit targets seem invalidated now.  Going lower than 240 doesn't seem like it would make sense anymore.  And selling 10 coins on the chance that happens seems like it might not be worth the risk.
Since I don't believe in it, therefore, it will happen.  SELL IT ALL!

----------


## bullhammer

> I'm not sure what to do either.    I'm all in ltc on btc-e and planning to hold.   I have btc at coinbase, I'm debating whether or not to sell.   I hate when we have a crash on the weekend.   Not many peeps are checking the forums.


Im still  100% in LTC, My $5 target was hit and I wanted to sell half my position but didn't  ( why I thought it would only go up to five was that the rise to 8+ seemed unwarranted to be so fast?)  One of the hardest thing about trading I find  is selling on the way up, taking profit off the table is never wrong.......you can always get back in...... I would of liked to be set up on an exchange to get stopped out once it fell past the trend line but still working on that. 
As far as I know, the CUP and HANDLE pattern is one of the most bullish patterns there is! I hope we get a huge rally soon, if we fall out of the handle I think it will be negated.....
Im not selling, prepared to ride it out as we are in a new bull trend I believe, especially with all the growing interest around the blockchain and bitcoin and crypto currencies in general.

----------


## djthistle01

> ...  Patterns like that feel like astrology.  fib lines, elliot wave and divergence indicators feel more like science to me.




bwahahahahahaha, Astrology is way more accurate than you think. I use Magi astrology and if you have followed me in the past you would know I am rarely wrong. That is for a reason. I take clear fractals and then look at the next 10,30, and 90 days of astrology to see when the peaks & trough will occur. Not one of my skeptic members is a skeptic anymore. It often moves to the hour China time. max 6 hours out of range. I love it, because you cant fight it.

----------


## djthistle01

> ...though i am bullish i am not as set in seeing a rise right away as LP is. my indicators are mixed. the 4H and lower if pulling more bull than bear signals. 1D is droppin' heiken ashi doji's like there is no tomorrow. small position but i am playing the break overall.



pew pew pew!!! This is the dip I was waiting for. 0.013, 0.011, 0.0098 is weekend dump support at worst.

----------


## djthistle01

> http://thepatternsite.com/cup.html 
> http://thepatternsite.com/roundb.html


I have been jiving on the C&H on BTC for a long while now. 273 200EMA, 267 support, and 252 longer term trend support have to hold of course. BTC chart has been bearish as hell since 305.Global economics over the coming months should give whales a reason to pump. However some of these LTC & BTC dumps are great reminders as to why you have 4 or 5 part trade strat and don't go foolish in either direction.

----------


## djthistle01

> Im still  100% in LTC, My $5 target was hit and I wanted to sell half my position but didn't  ( why I thought it would only go up to five was that the rise to 8+ seemed unwarranted to be so fast?)  One of the hardest thing about trading I find  is selling on the way up, taking profit off the table is never wrong.......you can always get back in...... I would of liked to be set up on an exchange to get stopped out once it fell past the trend line but still working on that. 
> As far as I know, the CUP and HANDLE pattern is one of the most bullish patterns there is! I hope we get a huge rally soon, if we fall out of the handle I think it will be negated.....
> Im not selling, prepared to ride it out as we are in a new bull trend I believe, especially with all the growing interest around the blockchain and bitcoin and crypto currencies in general.


why not portion off your holdings? 1 part blind long or short, 1 part plays 1D, 1 part plays 4H, 1 part plays 1H. or something like that. makes trading less emotional and allows you to see the micro and the macro moves instead of being a tunnel vision daytrader or 1D swing trader that gets left behind on big quick moves.

----------


## Dianne

> In terms of BTC, if you are playing with an amount of coins that is 100+, I would be willing to take that sell risk to scoop for more.  If you are playing with 10-20...I dunno.  Maybe?  I think you are doing quite well adding 1 coin every paycheck.
> 
> Those bottom double-digit targets seem invalidated now.  Going lower than 240 doesn't seem like it would make sense anymore.  And selling 10 coins on the chance that happens seems like it might not be worth the risk.
> Since I don't believe in it, therefore, it will happen.  SELL IT ALL!


lol .   I'm not a big time investor.   Remember I'm the one who started buying bitcoin when it was in the 800's.    BuddyRey was recommending I buy it when it was 11.00 lol but I waited for the 800's..   So I'm not very savvy.    I think I'm just going to stay with the plan and continue purchasing a little each pay day and stop looking at it as short term, but long term.      LTC is where I get playful and less conservative.

----------


## Dianne

> Im still  100% in LTC, My $5 target was hit and I wanted to sell half my position but didn't  ( why I thought it would only go up to five was that the rise to 8+ seemed unwarranted to be so fast?)  One of the hardest thing about trading I find  is selling on the way up, taking profit off the table is never wrong.......you can always get back in...... I would of liked to be set up on an exchange to get stopped out once it fell past the trend line but still working on that. 
> As far as I know, the CUP and HANDLE pattern is one of the most bullish patterns there is! I hope we get a huge rally soon, if we fall out of the handle I think it will be negated.....
> Im not selling, prepared to ride it out as we are in a new bull trend I believe, especially with all the growing interest around the blockchain and bitcoin and crypto currencies in general.


Thanks for the post.   That's kind of the way I feel now.    I would sell at a loss right now, and I believe it will go back up even if it takes a month.

----------


## Tycoon

> bwahahahahahaha, Astrology is way more accurate than you think. I use Magi astrology and *if you have followed me in the past you would know I am rarely wrong*. That is for a reason. I take clear fractals and then look at the next 10,30, and 90 days of astrology to see when the peaks & trough will occur. Not one of my skeptic members is a skeptic anymore. It often moves to the hour China time. max 6 hours out of range. I love it, because you cant fight it.


where can you be followed? and your trades based on astrology. thanks.

----------


## muh_roads

Jesus someone give the markets a tampon already.  Bloody everywhere.

Looks like it is time to buy some more.

Lets all hold hands and get rekt together. lol

----------


## muh_roads

> pew pew pew!!! This is the dip I was waiting for. 0.013, 0.011, 0.0098 is weekend dump support at worst.


I'll keep those in mind.  Thanks for coming back to post a little on RPF.

----------


## Dianne

> Jesus someone give the markets a tampon already.  Bloody everywhere.
> 
> Looks like it is time to buy some more.
> 
> Lets all hold hands and get rekt together. lol


It's looking pretty grim.    I almost took btc from my Coinbase account to buy more ltc at this price; but, the conservative side of me says "don't do it", just stay with the current plan.

----------


## kfarnan

I held per presence advice as well.  I'm tired of all the swings.  Just large holders manipulating.  I'm looking long term now on.  Probably a shake out before an up swing, hopefully.

----------


## djthistle01

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarke...losing_orders/

^^^ I got so ****ed over today. jebus. I have NO idea how much lost, or gained, int the process. pretty sure it was a loss. all I wanted to do was exit the rest of my long at a small loss and flip short. then nothing would close. i went from 80 to 250 to 40 to 460 to 256 to 460 again, the direction of the trade was flipping back&forth and my withdraw didn't show up for hours after the fact. what a gong show. finally closed now and the test deposits i sent finally went through. AND I missed out shorting the move. I am for sure shaken using Bitfinex now. Has anyone used Houbi before. OKCoin is too scary. Bitmex, Kraken. I dunno. But that was just crazy today. my emotions=rekt 

did anyone else run into this today?

----------


## muh_roads

> http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarke...losing_orders/
> 
> ^^^ I got so ****ed over today. jebus. I have NO idea how much lost, or gained, int the process. pretty sure it was a loss. all I wanted to do was exit the rest of my long at a small loss and flip short. then nothing would close. i went from 80 to 250 to 40 to 460 to 256 to 460 again, the direction of the trade was flipping back&forth and my withdraw didn't show up for hours after the fact. what a gong show. finally closed now and the test deposits i sent finally went through. AND I missed out shorting the move. I am for sure shaken using Bitfinex now. Has anyone used Houbi before. OKCoin is too scary. Bitmex, Kraken. I dunno. But that was just crazy today. my emotions=rekt 
> 
> did anyone else run into this today?


That sucks I'm sorry to hear that.  I heard some stuff about bitfinex today.  Were you just long and fiat?  Or are you playing futures and shorting on margin?  The LTC/BTC pair has been working via API just fine.

A lot of people here aren't familiar with shorting on margin or futures contracts and I don't think they trade that way.  Paul might.

I've heard about too many people zero'ing out their accounts playing futures because of the addiction.  It may seem like I have a gambling personality but I actually don't.  Not enough to get involved with some of those horror stories.

----------


## djthistle01

it was LTC/BTC. and wow was it lame, LOL. I had a small long and the long kept getting bigger and the price went down. I was gonna barf for a second there. 

and you can follow my charts etc at:
https://twitter.com/DJThistle01
https://www.tradingview.com/u/djthistle01/
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/  <--- too busy djing , site is thin lately.

----------


## djthistle01

> A lot of people here aren't familiar with shorting on margin or futures contracts and I don't think they trade that way.  Paul might.
> 
> I've heard about too many people zero'ing out their accounts playing futures because of the addiction.  It may seem like I have a gambling personality but I actually don't.  Not enough to get involved with some of those horror stories.


yes margin. i had a wee long and wanted to close & short. booooo, that didn't go well. as for gambling, I hear ya. I am one of the most conservative traders you will met though  That was why I suggested i a previous post to try building and exiting a position in portions. I also never go more 5% into a $#@!coin, 10% into bigger coins. rarely ever more than 20%. BTC is king, don't piss way coins.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> yes margin. i had a wee long and wanted to close & short. booooo, that didn't go well. as for gambling, I hear ya. I am one of the most conservative traders you will met though  That was why I suggested i a previous post to try building and exiting a position in portions. I also never go more 5% into a $#@!coin, 10% into bigger coins. rarely ever more than 20%. BTC is king, don't piss way coins.


People are just way too fickle with the markets.  That's how you lose money.  Doubt is the only reason.  The best way to make money is to look for major breakouts/breakdowns and ride the wave both ways.  First, you use a stop-loss for insurance and then you ride the hysteria upward until the market goes ballistic.  Once that happens, recognized by fast-moving prices accompanied by unusually high volume, you short on margin.  No stop-loss and no turning back.  Just hold until the market goes in your favor.  Identify likely areas where the ballistic trend will reverse and start to look for signs of weakness, then go all in on the reversal.  The safest way to do this is to have stop orders put you in a position as soon as the pattern of higher lows is broken on a 30m time frame, but there can be massive slippage if you decide to do this.  Sometimes the best way is to just look for signs of weakness and take a position without looking back.  

Only when people doubt their strategy do they lose money.  The more trades you make, the more opportunities you have to freak out and lose your $#@!.  Keep it simple.  Go all in on the big high-probability trades and keep your positions small on the in-between small trades that are really just practice while you wait for the next major breakout on a longer-term scale.  It's kind of like playing Russian Roulette, except there are a lot more empty chambers and every time you don't get the bullet, you decrease the damage a bullet would cause.  

After every winning trade, take some of your trading funds off the table so you can't lose them.  Margin is okay, but keep in mind that you should only be playing with money you can afford to lose in the first place.  It's a judgment call you have to make as a trader.  Every pattern that looks like a sure thing could turn out to be bogus.  Only take the ones that are screaming at you to take them.

At least... this is what's worked for me so far.  You still need some more technical knowledge to actually trade, but that's how it works as far as strategy goes.

----------


## fatjohn

LTC looks like it cant hold the last upward trendline that I can distinguish. Feels like dropping further back into crypto-oblivion. Not really sure yet, don't know what to do.

Edit: On second thought, I think it might only fall to 3.5 before perhaps resuming the rise. Not willing to make a trade for such a small move, since i'm not so much of a trader.

----------


## presence

ALERT:



*Poloniex* will no longer be allowed to  provide services to residents of the State of New York starting on  *August 8th, 2015*. If you are a resident of *New York*, please take  appropriate measures to withdraw your funds by this date. For more  information or for further assistance, contact us.



Posted by busoni@poloniex on 2015-08-02 01:09:31

----------


## muh_roads

> ALERT:
> 
> 
> 
> *Poloniex* will no longer be allowed to  provide services to residents of the State of New York starting on  *August 8th, 2015*. If you are a resident of *New York*, please take  appropriate measures to withdraw your funds by this date. For more  information or for further assistance, contact us.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by busoni@poloniex on 2015-08-02 01:09:31


I closed them a long time ago.

----------


## Tycoon

> *EXPECT THE CUP HANDLE IN THE NEXT 48 HOURS
> 
> SELL 0335
> BUY 0270
> SELL 0355
> BUY 0270 AGAIN
> 
> RATTLE TRAP THE HANDLE FOR HUGE POWER PLAY
> *


so I assume the handle haven't been confirmed?

----------


## Dianne

> I closed them a long time ago.


Me too... I always thought they were a little sketch.

----------


## bullhammer

> why not portion off your holdings? 1 part blind long or short, 1 part plays 1D, 1 part plays 4H, 1 part plays 1H. or something like that. makes trading less emotional and allows you to see the micro and the macro moves instead of being a tunnel vision daytrader or 1D swing trader that gets left behind on big quick moves.



ya thanks, sounds like good advice, my problem is I am a part time trader! many times all I have time for is to take a quick look on my phone while Im at work,
I guess I like to trade on a smaller time scale when I can watch it, otherwise I put most trades on for days or  weeks etc.

----------


## Dianne

> ya thanks, sounds like good advice, my problem is I am a part time trader! many times all I have time for is to take a quick look on my phone while Im at work,
> I guess I like to trade on a smaller time scale when I can watch it, otherwise I put most trades on for days or  weeks etc.


This makes me think, for people like myself who are not savvy in reading charts and don't understand longs and shorts;  someone could make a fortune investing for us.     Of course, who could we ever trust to do that?    But wouldn't it be nice to have an exchange where you turn over 10 btc and they turn it into 12 within 60 days or less?

----------


## bullhammer

> This makes me think, for people like myself who are not savvy in reading charts and don't understand longs and shorts;  someone could make a fortune investing for us.     Of course, who could we ever trust to do that?    But wouldn't it be nice to have an exchange where you turn over 10 btc and they turn it into 12 within 60 days or less?


well there was one called BTC Trader, I did pretty well with them for awhile till they madoff with everyones funds, lost pretty heavy.....
Bitfinex has an option that you can lend people your BTC or LTC or even USD for interest, seems legit.

might want to buy some leveraged inverse ETFs soon on the S&P500 soon......check this out!  http://www.clivemaund.com/article.php?art_id=3521

----------


## bullhammer

> This makes me think, for people like myself who are not savvy in reading charts and don't understand longs and shorts;  someone could make a fortune investing for us.     Of course, who could we ever trust to do that?    But wouldn't it be nice to have an exchange where you turn over 10 btc and they turn it into 12 within 60 days or less?


BTW, when you BUY.... you are going long/ when you SELL you are going short.   
eg. if you don't have any say BTC to sell, you borrow some, sell them into the market (betting it will go down in price) then you buy back at lower levels (covering your shorts) then you give them back and keep the difference,........not sure if that helps

----------


## muh_roads

> This makes me think, for people like myself who are not savvy in reading charts and don't understand longs and shorts;  someone could make a fortune investing for us.     Of course, who could we ever trust to do that?    But wouldn't it be nice to have an exchange where you turn over 10 btc and they turn it into 12 within 60 days or less?


That's called letting someone else be your broker.  Bernie Madoff was a broker.

WageCan gets you an interest rate on the coins they hold for you in a similar manner...it says..."The Daily Interest Rate Shown would be determined by market fluctuations and our performance of Bitcoin hedging strategies."

You can read a little about the guy I think that manages that...  https://www.wagecan.com/About  Name is Sean Lin.

If you put 10 coins in there, it would accumulate roughly 0.4 btc in interest over a one year period...'eh.

----------


## bullhammer

> That's called letting someone else be your broker.  Bernie Madoff was a broker.
> 
> WageCan gets you an interest rate on the coins they hold for you in a similar manner...it says..."The Daily Interest Rate Shown would be determined by market fluctuations and our performance of Bitcoin hedging strategies."
> 
> You can read a little about the guy I think that manages that...  https://www.wagecan.com/About  Name is Sean Lin.
> 
> If you put 10 coins in there, it would accumulate roughly 0.4 btc in interest over a one year period...'eh.


notice in my comment #3943 above I wrote "madoff with everyones funds" wondering if anyone would notice that lol

----------


## Dianne

> BTW, when you BUY.... you are going long/ when you SELL you are going short.   
> eg. if you don't have any say BTC to sell, you borrow some, sell them into the market (betting it will go down in price) then you buy back at lower levels (covering your shorts) then you give them back and keep the difference,........not sure if that helps


That helped a lot actually, thank you.    I've been doing it all along and didn't even know it.   Isn't BTC hard to short?   The price always seems the same.

----------


## Dianne

> That's called letting someone else be your broker.  Bernie Madoff was a broker.
> 
> WageCan gets you an interest rate on the coins they hold for you in a similar manner...it says..."The Daily Interest Rate Shown would be determined by market fluctuations and our performance of Bitcoin hedging strategies."
> 
> You can read a little about the guy I think that manages that...  https://www.wagecan.com/About  Name is Sean Lin.
> 
> If you put 10 coins in there, it would accumulate roughly 0.4 btc in interest over a one year period...'eh.


That hardly seems worth the risk of someone running off with your coins.   I made that much in just a few minutes with a little ltc pump.

----------


## Dianne

> notice in my comment #3943 above I wrote "madoff with everyones funds" wondering if anyone would notice that lol


Yeah, I caught that lol..

----------


## presence

> <--- too busy djing , site is thin lately.


where's the links for da dope beats?

----------


## presence

> so I assume the handle haven't been confirmed?


I'm still on the books to sell LTC and DRK at 0335; its going to come rapidly when it comes.

----------


## Tycoon

> I'm still on the books to sell LTC and DRK at 0335; its going to come rapidly when it comes.


thanks. and thanks for keeping us updated.

----------


## muh_roads

pres what was your entry on dash/drk?

----------


## presence

> pres what was your entry on dash/drk?


01337 July 20th on the drkbtc green dragon cross

01288 last

----------


## muh_roads

> 01337 July 20th on the drkbtc green dragon cross
> 
> 01288 last


That DRK chart looks like it is having a seizure.  lol

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/drkbtc

----------


## presence

> That DRK chart looks like it is having a seizure.  lol
> 
> https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/drkbtc


DRK has 2-3% margins; you can play that trick all day every day if you have the patience; unfortunately the volume isn't superb.

----------


## presence

This is a very large image and may extend off right side of page; right click "view image"

----------


## presence



----------


## kfarnan

Stay away from the stock market..

----------


## bullhammer

May be a good time to short the market with an inverse leveraged ETF! SPXU is a great play on the S&P500 if you want to play in the casino!

----------


## presence

> May be a good time to short the market with an inverse leveraged ETF! SPXU is a great play on the S&P500 if you want to play in the casino!


SPXU is an EXCELLENT call here.  Good insight. 


I give it a MOON^3 rating.

----------


## bullhammer

Anyone care to comment on max coin ?  Pathetic how Max raved about his coin while probably dumping it right off the get go long ago! Not a peep about it now from him while it wollows at the bottom! I have a few thou that may be worth something when a rising BTC floats all boats.....

----------


## bullhammer

> SPXU is an EXCELLENT call here.  Good insight. 
> 
> 
> I give it a MOON^3 rating.


How about a Pluto xxx3 rating! Lol

----------


## muh_roads

> May be a good time to short the market with an inverse leveraged ETF! SPXU is a great play on the S&P500 if you want to play in the casino!


You should check out this site...
https://1broker.com/

More info...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123492.0

People with big balls play there.

----------


## djthistle01

re: Stock Trading...yes 1Broker is a great place to trade if you have  BTC. In fact 1Broker is the ONLY advertiser on my site because they are  one of the only half decent places in crypto imo.

LTC: I am gonna  have my head on a swivel at 7.50 if it gets there again. 12.24 should  be the goal. but this is taking almost too long. Aug 9th should see an  uptrend or it's totally pooched. but if stocks tank we could see a slow  bubble pattern too. 

Alts: Members just banged out a 100% on CIRC  pump cause it was so bloody obvious. Playing waves on AXIOM. SDC should  stay on peoples radar. DTC on bittrex is crazy low if you want to join  my premium group where we talk trade strats, indicator combos &  stocks. (shameless plug, whatever, hahaha)

Stocks: If you want  something that runs against the DOW the VIX is ballin'. I have been  saying for about a year that the stock market should top out around  August 25th. This is 100% based on cyclical astrological patterns. It's  looking pretty darn good at this point. Ghost Month should provide  little push for China markets. Bradly Sideograph has a huge tun on aug  27/28. then the almighty Shemitah after that in september. so as far as I  am concerned I am more than happy with my astrological system. Here is  an astro chart I gave members in april /may. I think LP is on much of  the same tip. I just happen to use Saturn as an indicator for longterm  trends becaue it is never wrong.  https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...88417485836288

----------


## Tycoon

> re: Stock Trading...yes 1Broker is a great place to trade if you have  BTC. In fact 1Broker is the ONLY advertiser on my site because they are  one of the only half decent places in crypto imo.
> 
> LTC: I am gonna  have my head on a swivel at 7.50 if it gets there again. 12.24 should  be the goal. but this is taking almost too long. Aug 9th should see an  uptrend or it's totally pooched. but if stocks tank we could see a slow  bubble pattern too. 
> 
> Alts: Members just banged out a 100% on CIRC  pump cause it was so bloody obvious. Playing waves on AXIOM. SDC should  stay on peoples radar. DTC on bittrex is crazy low if you want to join  my premium group where we talk trade strats, indicator combos &  stocks. (shameless plug, whatever, hahaha)
> 
> Stocks: If you want  something that runs against the DOW the VIX is ballin'. I have been  saying for about a year that the stock market should top out around  August 25th. This is 100% based on cyclical astrological patterns. It's  looking pretty darn good at this point. Ghost Month should provide  little push for China markets. Bradly Sideograph has a huge tun on aug  27/28. then the almighty Shemitah after that in september. so as far as I  am concerned I am more than happy with my astrological system. Here is  an astro chart I gave members in april /may. I think LP is on much of  the same tip. I just happen to use Saturn as an indicator for longterm  trends becaue it is never wrong.  https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...88417485836288


LTC halving exactly at 25th of august as well. could this mean anything? thanks.

----------


## muh_roads

> re: Stock Trading...yes 1Broker is a great place to trade if you have  BTC. In fact 1Broker is the ONLY advertiser on my site because they are  one of the only half decent places in crypto imo.
> 
> LTC: I am gonna  have my head on a swivel at 7.50 if it gets there again. 12.24 should  be the goal. but this is taking almost too long. Aug 9th should see an  uptrend or it's totally pooched. but if stocks tank we could see a slow  bubble pattern too. 
> 
> Alts: Members just banged out a 100% on CIRC  pump cause it was so bloody obvious. Playing waves on AXIOM. SDC should  stay on peoples radar. DTC on bittrex is crazy low if you want to join  my premium group where we talk trade strats, indicator combos &  stocks. (shameless plug, whatever, hahaha)
> 
> Stocks: If you want  something that runs against the DOW the VIX is ballin'. I have been  saying for about a year that the stock market should top out around  August 25th. This is 100% based on cyclical astrological patterns. It's  looking pretty darn good at this point. Ghost Month should provide  little push for China markets. Bradly Sideograph has a huge tun on aug  27/28. then the almighty Shemitah after that in september. so as far as I  am concerned I am more than happy with my astrological system. Here is  an astro chart I gave members in april /may. I think LP is on much of  the same tip. I just happen to use Saturn as an indicator for longterm  trends becaue it is never wrong.  https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...88417485836288


So when does prometheus dump AXIOM and then blame his disappearance on his "retarded" kid while he actually just goes to play CoD?

----------


## djthistle01

"LTC halving exactly at 25th of august as well. could this mean anything? thanks."

the 25th is based on previous DOW top/crash cycles. the fact that LTC lands there is just great timing. that is how astrology works though, it's all baked into the cake. also why i like it so much. it does not lie to you.

----------


## djthistle01

"So when does prometheus dump AXIOM and then blame his disappearance on  his "retarded" kid while he actually just goes to play CoD?"

dude. that's harsh. and come on, every coin is pumped by the same few people. and they often tag up on them so I am sure prom has hit most alts you have traded. I/The group played CIRC because Bob coins are so damn easy to exit. he holds up this fake support on the 3rd wave and you exit with profit. we snagged a 100% on that. AXIOM, dude, it's a new algo, who cares if jimmy buffet made it, grab a margarita and play the waves for easy money. if you wanna rail on anyone it should be iBITS guys. that is bloody shamefull. 0.068 to 115sats in a week and a half. just shameful. Bob, Prom, Wolong never did anything that harsh. Do you trade forex? because the $#@!ery there is totally on the same level as crypto pumpers. just brutal stop raids in fx. 

and if you wanna talk p&d, look at LTC, which everyone here seems to be playing, some people 50-100% in it too...which is crazy. fontas dumped the living hell out of it but you wanna bring someones kid into the mix cause he plays altcoins. lame. this is why i do not pump coins, because people go bat $#@! crazy on some people and others get a free pass. i mean, i'm pretty sure LP dumped a lot of LTC pretty hard up around 0.028 and up. and that's how trading goes. sounds more like you need more charting skills to not get burned by obvious plays. never hold an alt for more than 22hrs, that's the rule.

----------


## muh_roads

> "So when does prometheus dump AXIOM and then blame his disappearance on  his "retarded" kid while he actually just goes to play CoD?"
> 
> dude. that's harsh. and come on, every coin is pumped by the same few people. and they often tag up on them so I am sure prom has hit most alts you have traded. I/The group played CIRC because Bob coins are so damn easy to exit. he holds up this fake support on the 3rd wave and you exit with profit. we snagged a 100% on that. AXIOM, dude, it's a new algo, who cares if jimmy buffet made it, grab a margarita and play the waves for easy money. if you wanna rail on anyone it should be iBITS guys. that is bloody shamefull. 0.068 to 115sats in a week and a half. just shameful. Bob, Prom, Wolong never did anything that harsh. Do you trade forex? because the $#@!ery there is totally on the same level as crypto pumpers. just brutal stop raids in fx. 
> 
> and if you wanna talk p&d, look at LTC, which everyone here seems to be playing, some people 50-100% in it too...which is crazy. fontas dumped the living hell out of it but you wanna bring someones kid into the mix cause he plays altcoins. lame. this is why i do not pump coins, because people go bat $#@! crazy on some people and others get a free pass. i mean, i'm pretty sure LP dumped a lot of LTC pretty hard up around 0.028 and up. and that's how trading goes. sounds more like you need more charting skills to not get burned by obvious plays. never hold an alt for more than 22hrs, that's the rule.


Someone sure has those prom knee-pads on now.  Interesting.  Now I'm tempted to post all the private skype convos of you hating on prom.  Keep talking.

And LOL at comparing pres selling a more established coin like LTC to what prom does.  Which is dumping dominating $#@!coin ownership on top of fake west road-maps that they never follow-thru with.  Gimme a break.  They don't pre-mine but they may as well call it that.

As for wolong, I dunno, that guy definitely took ppl for a ride on PANDA.  Bob, all of them belong in the same group.  Alex Garbage and his VIRAL...lol  It goes on and on.

I'm glad I said something about AXIOM because only after I did was the mention of holding for less than a day. I don't care if ppl peddle $#@!coins but please do more warnings like that.  Most here don't know how to play these unknown $#@!coins and it is probably better kept that way.  I don't want to see people around here losing on stuff like that without proper info and backstory context.

At least if someone makes a wrong call on LTC around here, you can be assured it will come back.

----------


## djthistle01

for sure Prom and I had a pretty large falling out for a while there. He up and left my chat group even. But I am past that though. eg CIRC was bob coin, i mentioned an entry around 20 and exit at 40 cause it was just too hot. I am at the point where a whale is a whale, what is the point of getting all up in a huff? I find alt coin charts easy to read as they move so fast, thus I play them. Prom has a wave stucture, bob has a different waves structure, wolong had his ownwave structure. looks like loops hits coins here and there too. the only person I have a problem with is the nazi bastard adam.

and I am not comparing LP to prom, though since you feel the need to threaten it's not like I have not come across LP's name in certain chat groups either. and if so they you would have been is said chats to. if not to pump then like me to understand more info. big whoop! like i said, a pumper is a pumper, who cares. use the info to thebest of your advantage then compare waves to previous coins and trade it. that is what I do. 


and since you know me then you I have not actively pumped a coin. I tell the truth when asked. and the general twittershpere knows that too. 

Posts6,252
Join DateDec 2007 <----- well I hope this is not skype name D******** because I though we were better friends then this.

----------


## djthistle01

"I'm glad I said something about AXIOM because only after I did was the  mention of holding for less than a day.  Most here don't know how to  play these unknown $#@!coins and it is probably better kept that way.  I  don't want to see people around here losing on stuff like that."

LP was talking DASH so I thought everything was fair game. Since you are in my group would you like me to remove you from the forum since I am such a douche posting all those how-to videos and regular market updates that are rarely wrong? I am 3rd party verified as being correct over 85% of the time, more like 87-91. I came back to RP to give some feedback during what is a bubble. clearly I shouldn't have. I didn't tell anyone to buy or hold, just what i was playing with due to great volume coins. LP posts that LTC is going to moon in 10hrs and then it goes down 2 more times over course of days. God forbid people have more than 1 opinion on trading.

----------


## fatjohn

This is great, if next time i don't know what to buy with my next paycheck, Cisco or bitcoin, I can do both thanks to 1Broker. muhroads have you been using it for a while now?

----------


## djthistle01

just make sure to read the page about market hours. You get charged "overnight fees" and depending on the market you might not want to be doing that. or at the very least to close your position friday afternoon if there is big weekend news because if the price gaps up you get rekt monday mornings open. there is afull section dedicated to it.

----------


## Dianne

LOL I don't know what you guys are talking about.   Don't understand a word of what you are saying.    Can someone get back to the question at hand..  What will happen to LTC when it halves?

----------


## bullhammer

Volume: *261670 LTC / 1062809 USD*
Server Time: *07.08.15 05:08*






*Trade**News**Terms**FAQ**PAMM**Support*
* * 



*Latest news:**
05/08/15
We're celebrating our 4th anniversary!
0

28/05/15


No Fees at BTC-e!


*

----------


## Tycoon

https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=49  what? rip dash? will LP close his position on dash?

----------


## djthistle01

> This is great, if next time i don't know what to buy with my next paycheck, Cisco or bitcoin, I can do both thanks to 1Broker. muhroads have you been using it for a while now?


Fees
https://1broker.com/?c=about_fees

Hours
https://1broker.com/?c=market_hours

and wow!!! they added new markets. have not been on in a week. sweeeeeet.

----------


## djthistle01

> LOL I don't know what you guys are talking about.   Don't understand a word of what you are saying.    Can someone get back to the question at hand..  What will happen to LTC when it halves?


hahahaha.You bet Dianne. As libertarians you must all be up to speed on austrian economics, therefore you know that nothing has value until we give it value. Crypto has no value to the average person and imho ALL coins are p&d's. If satoshi exited BTC would look like any other bittrex dump. So....."what happens when LTC halves"...the amount of coins you get for finding a block is half of what it was before. often whales pump coins when block rewards are high (because they are getting the bulk of supply) then after enough halvings the BTC it takes to hold up the market is not worth the amount of coins being spit out and a new bear cycle begins sometime after. 

What does it all mean? In means it is purely a reason to pump a coin again then leave us all holding the bag. aka, watch yer rear end cause the bear market will suck!

----------


## djthistle01

> https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=49  what? rip dash? will LP close his position on dash?


it is selling down pretty hard now. finex charts on drk are crap though. cryptsy & bittrex are when the pumps get pushed from. though clearly they are going to rattle the hell out of the cage with this news. i bowed out for now. I mentioned SDC and it is up and at resistance again, if it breaks we'll see some FOMO. XMR is a really easy alt to play. it stays in perfect channels and just bounces up & down, has great volume too most of the time. the reason it is a good play is because it is essentially Polo's coin and they keep it in great shape. Same as BTCD, easy trading. Altcoins are short holds. If anything, playing swings on a solid high volume altcoin is how to break any bad trading habits around emotional stress. For me it was the first big DRK bubble. Feels nice to not trip out each time price wiggles. FYI, XMR & DASH team had a good feud recently, I am sure this is why XMR is going up in the face of DASH. Kinda flipping them the bird.

----------


## kfarnan

"ALL coins are p&d's. If satoshi exited BTC would look like any other bittrex dump."

If a large holder did exit BTC.  Wouldn't the supply be redistributed and normalized eventually anyway?

----------


## muh_roads

> This is great, if next time i don't know what to  buy with my next paycheck, Cisco or bitcoin, I can do both thanks to  1Broker. muhroads have you been using it for a while now?


dj will know more about it.  I've only known about it for a few months  but I haven't tested it out yet.  You can do 20x leverage there I  believe and can make a lot without risking a lot.  A bunch of guys did  well shorting the $#@! out of EURUSD there I think.




> LOL I don't know what you guys are talking about.     Don't understand a word of what you are saying.    Can someone get   back to the question at hand..  What will happen to LTC when it   halves?


Miners will have half the dumping power.  When bitcoin first halved in  late 2012 (Oct or Nov), it took about 2 months to notice something was  brewing.  Then bitcoin started bubbling up to $266 by April 2013.




> Crypto has no value to the  average person  and imho ALL coins are p&d's. If satoshi exited BTC  would look like  any other bittrex dump. So....."what happens when LTC  halves"...the  amount of coins you get for finding a block is half of  what it was  before. often whales pump coins when block rewards are high  (because  they are getting the bulk of supply) then after enough halvings  the BTC  it takes to hold up the market is not worth the amount of coins  being  spit out and a new bear cycle begins sometime after.


Crypto has no value to the average person because the average person is a  $#@!ing retard.  I can save more money at purse.io with 50% discounts  on average dept. store necessities than your average coupon cutter.  I  can gain more interest at WageCan than what any bank has given me in 10  years almost.  A global new fintech industry "IPO" that anyone can be  part of (most ppl can't be part of new stock IPO's) which also doubles as a currency that lets you spend your  "stock" in any jurisdiction with internet access off the record (including behind the great firewall of China) is nothing to sneeze at.

And I'd argue that ALL markets are legally sanctioned "buy the dip" schemes.  This isn't exclusive to crypto.

Also if Satoshi didn't sell a single coin at $1100, I don't think he is selling at the current levels either.

As for your other post, I don't care if people are posting $#@!coin  tips.  People just need to be educated on the rules and patterns to  watch for as that $#@! gets really hairy fast.  These tiny markets are  controlled and are designed to play as Ponzi's.  As volatile as BTC and  LTC is, they are still far less controlled due to their adoption and  market caps.  Dumping always spreads to more hands whereas  prometheus/bob/adamG $#@!coins are all lies with no future intentions.   If they had more of a vision, they would stick with the early ones they  already made instead of pooping a new one out every month.

BTW I mentioned prometheus' kid because I don't believe he is retarded at all.  I believe he is just fine and was just used as a scapegoat to dump hard on his own group and disappear for a while.  The patterns were completely obvious up until I stopped paying attention (which was HAL).

People can dump whenever they want.  It is their coin.  I just don't like pieces of $#@! that talk out the side of their mouths saying one thing but then do another.

That's a shame about DRK & bitfinex.  Glad I waited to buy any.




> "ALL coins are p&d's. If satoshi exited BTC would look like any other bittrex dump."
> 
> If a large holder did exit BTC.  Wouldn't the supply be redistributed and normalized eventually anyway?


Absolutely!

----------


## djthistle01

> "ALL coins are p&d's. If satoshi exited BTC would look like any other bittrex dump."
> 
> If a large holder did exit BTC.  Wouldn't the supply be redistributed and normalized eventually anyway?



As I understand it a lot of this past bear market was because of redistribution. As many retailers took BTC as payment they also sold into the market. Also, as I understand it, even Overstock.com is not 100% holding it's BTC. As as bad as it sounds it is the concentration of BTC in few hands that can best present the chance for us to trade a real bull market. A lot of average people wanted to own or trade at $1000, $800, $600, 400 even. $300 was so-so. under 250 and my chat group is very quiet. 

Redistribution from early adopters to Wall St. is ok. But Redistribution from early adopters to traders and retailers just creates a bear market. Like Wyckoff charts so brilliantly explain true "distribution" is the first step of a bear market. see chart here http://d.stockcharts.com/school/data...-accumdist.png 

The interest of Wall St is a good thing. If they do back away from BTC and just want the blockchain then that does not bode well for the long term. Kind of like gold & silver for the past few years, there is literally no reason to buy & hold (just trade) when they have to consolidate to make up for a clear p&d.

----------


## djthistle01

> This is great, if next time i don't know what to buy with my next paycheck, Cisco or bitcoin, I can do both thanks to 1Broker. muhroads have you been using it for a while now?


as muh_roads pointed out there is 20x leverage. But there is 200x on fx pairs. that is in&out 1min chart trades. wait for a nice set up and make it fast. I am a pretty good trader, by I get destroyed on 200x. keep in under 50 if not 10. again, shorter term trades. up to 10 or a super chart nerd might get away with a 20. 10-15 on indexes and stocks for day trading is pretty good. not as crazy of swings as fx. eg, I do well playing the DAX or S&P at 15-20x because it tends in a clear pattern. i can't stress enough how huge the $#@!ery is on fore pairs, especially NZD pairs. be careful.

----------


## djthistle01

@muh_roads....very true regarding satoshi. i doubt selling now, just making the point that if at anytime he/she/it empties out it's game over like poor ole' iBITS this week. what a p&d disaster. that guy has the most brutal dumps that make bobs look like childs play. then he just leaves the market for delisting. jerk.

as for his kid; it is a heart defect often found in downs kids, so  think that is where the scare came from. but he does not have downs and a got the heart operations a couple months after birth. i know only because that was the same time we butted heads and he left the group.

DRK/DASH. what a pisser indeed. but bifinex is not the driving force behind it. way too much money behind it, $#@! launch premine or not. back when it was just over a $1 the group caught wind it was going close to 10. it made it a good ways on the last bull market

----------


## Dianne

For those with weak hands, I am still holding LTC .    Should I bail and minimize losses asap,  or keep holding?    Just asking for recommendations.    I only play with btc and ltc.

----------


## Tycoon

> For those with weak hands, I am still holding LTC .    Should I bail and minimize losses asap,  or keep holding?    Just asking for recommendations.    I only play with btc and ltc.


I'm holding. but I'm irrelevant, cuz I have no clue about trading and actually, it seems like, I have problems with "letting it go" in general lol.

----------


## Dianne

> I'm holding. but I'm irrelevant, cuz I have no clue about trading and actually, it seems like, I have problems with "letting it go" in general lol.


Well you and I are in the same boat then.    I'm irrelevant as well, and holding just "cause".    One of these days LTC will probably pump.   So I think I will just sit, try to be patient and at least sell for a little profit.    Patience is not my virtue, but this is BuddyRey's LTC so I'm hoping I can make him proud.

----------


## djthistle01

what do you all use for TA? i could modify one of my private lessons off  the forum and dump it on here. but if everyone has their own style that  is cool. but is sounds like maybe a few of you might. if anyone has  anything in particular they want to see or have trouble grasping I'll  make that the charts and or video.

----------


## Tycoon

> what do you all use for TA? i could modify one of my private lessons off  the forum and dump it on here. but if everyone has their own style that  is cool. but is sounds like maybe a few of you might. if anyone has  anything in particular they want to see or have trouble grasping I'll  make that the charts and or video.


I don't use anything. I'm a newb, would love some vids about trading crypto in particular.

----------


## bullhammer

> For those with weak hands, I am still holding LTC .    Should I bail and minimize losses asap,  or keep holding?    Just asking for recommendations.    I only play with btc and ltc.


I sold 1/2 my LTC position for USD couple days ago...... didn't want to but had to at least save a small profit , can always get back in. I think we may be in typical crypto pattern ( big spike followed by three humps to a low before resumption of trend). On daily chart of LTC we are at the end of second hump. I'm guessing we may end up somewhere @ low 3s to high 2s in a week or so.........but......with the chance we get a surprise pump, who knows......only the market knows! BTW I think the trend is up now......

----------


## bullhammer

> what do you all use for TA? i could modify one of my private lessons off  the forum and dump it on here. but if everyone has their own style that  is cool. but is sounds like maybe a few of you might. if anyone has  anything in particular they want to see or have trouble grasping I'll  make that the charts and or video.


I would like to see your lesson on trading, I'm kinda self taught from internet and from gazing at charts for hours and hours cause I love the markets and how they work! Prob spent the most time watching the chart for  spot price of Ag. I believe the physical market will disconnect from the paper market very soon, Actually it has already started!

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> what do you all use for TA? i could modify one of my private lessons off  the forum and dump it on here. but if everyone has their own style that  is cool. but is sounds like maybe a few of you might. if anyone has  anything in particular they want to see or have trouble grasping I'll  make that the charts and or video.


I'd love to learn more.  Have some experience in stocks but haven't really studied crypto; have followed litepresence's calls and made some, lost some; currently sitting in LTC as I fell asleep just as that huge drop was starting, and when I woke it was disaster.  Like Diane, I find it hard to let go...

Thanks for anything you share!

----------


## muh_roads

The daily $20 moves might soon be returning.

----------


## Dianne

> I'd love to learn more.  Have some experience in stocks but haven't really studied crypto; have followed litepresence's calls and made some, lost some; currently sitting in LTC as I fell asleep just as that huge drop was starting, and when I woke it was disaster.  Like Diane, I find it hard to let go...
> 
> Thanks for anything you share!


Those epic drops always take place when I'm asleep also !!    I would also be interested in any info you can share, djthistle.    My investing is similar to a "pin the tail on the donkey game".

----------


## djthistle01

eeeek, for sure I will do something up. what indicators do you use now or trends/ideas you want to learn how to spot. haha i came into charting via AG too, but so different now.

----------


## kfarnan

> The daily $20 moves might soon be returning.


BTC , LTC or both?

----------


## Dianne

> eeeek, for sure I will do something up. what indicators do you use now or trends/ideas you want to learn how to spot. haha i came into charting via AG too, but so different now.


This thread, lol.    When they say buy, I buy.    When they say sell, I sell.    I wish we had a little group to exchange cell numbers, so in the middle of the night; someone can text me to sell !!

----------


## dannno

> This thread, lol.    When they say buy, I buy.    When they say sell, I sell.    I wish we had a little group to exchange cell numbers, so in the middle of the night; someone can text me to sell !!


You could always look into using trading bots on tradewave.

----------


## Dianne

> You could always look into using trading bots on tradewave.


I'm not too crazy about using bots.   Too much can go wrong for my liking ... probably mostly human error (mine).   Is there some type of service or alerts you can get on a smartphone if the market starts going wild?

----------


## muh_roads

> This makes me think, for people like myself who are not savvy in reading charts and don't understand longs and shorts;  someone could make a fortune investing for us.     Of course, who could we ever trust to do that?    But wouldn't it be nice to have an exchange where you turn over 10 btc and they turn it into 12 within 60 days or less?


Getting back to this...I'm looking into something called Coinado.

Read their FAQ
https://coinado.com/faq

They employ something they call "statistical arbitrage" between 4 different exchanges at once.  An interview with them over teamspeak I think said 40% gains for 2014 despite the drop?  They take a hefty fee but they promise a hefty return...supposedly.

Today would've been a good test for something like that with the massive price difference between btc-e & bitfinex.

----------


## Dianne

Looks like we're taking a nice little hit tonight ( .

----------


## djthistle01

*-trade fund.* literally everyone i have heard about or the 1 i put a couple btc in go up in smoke and the person runs off with the money. this is an unregulated industry. the risk is all on you. we found the guy, even his parents...LOL, but basically it was our risk w/o regulation. don't put in what you can't afford to lose. 

*-alert system.* you can set up a free account on tradingview for alarms. but this is pretty rad, http://bitcoinbeeper.com/

_"This thread, lol.    When they say buy, I buy.    When they say sell, I sell._" haha! if you go against the heard and more so your emotions chances are you'll be right 4/5 times. sad but true    Still works for me. If I start to feel like I'm the king of the world it's time to exit.

do I have to upload charts and then link here or can I post them w/o doing that?

----------


## presence

> I'm not too crazy about using bots.   Too much can go wrong for my liking ... probably mostly human error (mine).   Is there some type of service or alerts you can get on a smartphone if the market starts going wild?


That can be too true at times.

I've had a conflict of interest that I've been wanting to share for a few days but I couldn't ethically until now.
_
After holding 92 days since May 1st at $235:_

*Honeybadger Pro sold $284.90 on 8/3.*




*"Sublcass 2: Capitulation - Green Dragon Event is Ending" 


*
Damn good GTFO "stoploss" call 4 days before a bloody waterfall.

*Unfortunately however,*

 the channel that I serve the signal on was accidentally not functioning because of an Tradewave engine update; no fault of my own; no fault of anyone really... just an unintended consequence accidentally introduced during the upgrade.  

Incidentally the upgrade was related to a cool feature I had personally requested.  _ Nice._ 

Close to 40 client accounts, including my own slave account which moves my bank (note the master account only moves 0.25 BTC), simply did nothing.

I  didn't notice until 8/5 at midnight; 60 hours later; I sent out an email alert to all my paying honeybadger clients;   the price was still $277 and did touch back to ~$280 briefly thereafter before the plummet.   During the 2 days of downtime I had just checked my primary exchange accounts... and "assumed" honeybadger had not yet sold because my bank was still in BTC; I didn't think to check the account holding the master signal's 0.25 BTC balance... and out of character I didn't sign into tradewave for a few days because personal life got hectic.

After I sent out the panic email alert, I assessed the situation and manually dumped my BTC's at 279 and liquidated LTC at the same time.   I was deeper than I wanted to be in DRK.   I was able to dump about half of my DRK at 3.50 and now I'm buy support at 3.08; my original buy in was $3.67.

It took me a day and half to figure out the error was not in my code, but related to my keys being somehow invalidated during the engine upgrade.  

I'm pretty sure tradewave is going to hand out some free live trading and honeybadger pro time to all my clients.   Nobody was really "at fault" it was an unforeseen bug... but it sucks for all involved; my clients, myself, and tradewave.  

I usually post here and begin trolling at BTCe a few hours after honeybadger trades, after I know all my people have executed trades.   I really wanted to post here at RPF w/ for my "liberty friends"; but I felt obliged to let my paying clients get their emails and dump first.    


Hence my silence the past few days. 
Its been with a bitten lip. 


The honeybadger marketplace signal is live again on a new channel.   


Here's the DRK chart:





For my long term Honeybadger "ROI Actual" that I use for marketing purposes I'm going to call the trade as having occurred at 279; about 5.90 under where the master signaled and well within range of where my clients could have dumped if they woke up on the morning of 8/6 and checked their email as advised.   The drop through btce 276 support didn't occur until today; 8/8.

----------


## Dianne

> *-trade fund.* literally everyone i have heard about or the 1 i put a couple btc in go up in smoke and the person runs off with the money. this is an unregulated industry. the risk is all on you. we found the guy, even his parents...LOL, but basically it was our risk w/o regulation. don't put in what you can't afford to lose. 
> 
> *-alert system.* you can set up a free account on tradingview for alarms. but this is pretty rad, http://bitcoinbeeper.com/
> 
> _"This thread, lol.    When they say buy, I buy.    When they say sell, I sell._" haha! if you go against the heard and more so your emotions chances are you'll be right 4/5 times. sad but true    Still works for me. If I start to feel like I'm the king of the world it's time to exit.
> 
> do I have to upload charts and then link here or can I post them w/o doing that?


That's some great advice... and you're right.    Every time I go with the heard I get screwed...   Not faulting the heard, because they get screwed too.    All mean well, just times things don't work out as projected.

----------


## muh_roads

> Unfortunately that can be too true at times.
> 
> I've had a conflict of interest that I've been wanting to share for a few days but I couldn't ethically until now.
> _
> After holding 92 days since May 1st at $235:_
> 
> *Honeybadger Pro sold $284.90 on 8/3.*
> 
> 
> ...


Alright $#@! this place, I'm done posting here.  I would suggest everyone else do the same.  Leaving people stuck in a bloody waterfall and staying silent since August 3rd, really?

I'm done tipping people.

Good luck everyone.  I've had my fill of RPF and especially this board.

----------


## Tycoon

LP, so you're out of LTC at this moment?

----------


## Dianne

> That can be too true at times.
> 
> I've had a conflict of interest that I've been wanting to share for a few days but I couldn't ethically until now.
> _
> After holding 92 days since May 1st at $235:_
> 
> *Honeybadger Pro sold $284.90 on 8/3.*
> 
> 
> ...


Dang, next time pm roads.... he won't tell if you violate something ethically.   We on this forum are like blood..    We've been together through thick and thin for years.

----------


## Dianne

> LP, so you're out of LTC at this moment?


I'm still all in LTC as we are crashing, waiting for it to hit .03 which was projected a few days ago.     I'm going to stay and hold.    It may go up again, it may not; but loss would be too big to sell right now.

----------


## presence

> Alright $#@! this place, I'm done posting here.





0.08 BTC a month and you would have had an ****URGENT ERROR HONEYBADGER SOLD**** mass email in your inbox on 8/5 just before midnight and marathon programmer working diligently to get your trading signal live again.  Since I uncovered the error I have done nothing but alert my clients and suck down espresso while I got my signal back online.   The signal went back online this afternoon.  Everything seems clean and functional.   I posted here this evening.




> Leaving people stuck in a bloody waterfall and staying silent since August 3rd, really?


Again... the signal occurred 8/3 at noon.   It moved 0.25 of my BTC on the master account.   My slave account with all my funds did nothing.   

I didn't notice until 8/5 at midnight.   

I didn't get the signal back online until this afternoon; frankly I didn't have time to send out personal emails between then and now... and I certainly wasn't going public on a pay per view bot decision before I gave my leasee's a chance to trade.   

If all was well you would have been on my mind.    All was not well.   My mission was code python; no sleep marathon style; get my clients online again.   

I had no idea it was going to drop so quickly today.   I was away from keyboard from noon (when I got the signal online and left for "work") to 8 (when I got home from pouring concrete the rest of the day).   


I need sleep now; I think I'm going on 48 hours.

----------


## presence

> LP, so you're out of LTC at this moment?


temporarily.

I was out on 8/6 around 2 am'ish

I don't recall the price.

----------


## Dianne

> temporarily.
> 
> I was out on 8/6 around 2 am'ish
> 
> I don't recall the price.


LOL I'm leaving this thread myself.    This thread has caused me far more damage then good.

----------


## muh_roads

> 0.08 BTC a month and you would have had an ****URGENT ERROR HONEYBADGER  SOLD**** mass email in your inbox on 8/5 just before midnight and  marathon programmer working diligently to get your trading signal live  again.  Since I uncovered the error I have done nothing but alert my  clients and suck down espresso while I got my signal back online.   The  signal went back online this afternoon.  Everything seems clean and  functional.   I posted here this evening.
> 
> I need sleep now.


At least people now know this thread from the beginning was just for you to make money.

I might be getting you confused with others but I'm generous with my  tipping and I tend to hand out 2.1 periodically to helpful friends that  turn me a profit.

I feel sorry for people here that were 50-100% LTC.  Wow.

On that note, I have to leave now and go do something else.  I'm really too livid right now to say anything further.

Good luck everyone.

----------


## presence

> I'm still all in LTC as we are crashing, waiting for it to hit .03 which was projected a few days ago.     I'm going to stay and hold.    It may go up again, it may not; but loss would be too big to sell right now.


I really can't advise as I'm tired and pretty disconnected from the charts at the moment.

I didn't sell LTC for any technical reason.  

I liquidated my cryptos because HB dumped and I didn't have time to watch charts.

----------


## XTreat

> I'm still all in LTC as we are crashing, waiting for it to hit .03 which was projected a few days ago.     I'm going to stay and hold.    It may go up again, it may not; but loss would be too big to sell right now.



I'm still in a lot of LTC, but that's mostly because I mine and hold. I have been holding for years. 

I only trade periodically into BTC when the BTC/LTC price spikes.

----------


## XTreat

I will say Pres telling everyone to hold LTC and then selling off without telling anyone seems a little disingenuous. 

I quit following his recommendations a long while back and only check in here to see what the word on the street is. 

Dollar cost averaging, or crypoto cost averaging in this case, is your friend.

----------


## amonasro

Jesus, this is the worst time for this all to happen as I'm in freaking Scotland on tour without access to my normal analysis routine... A nail-biter for sure. 

If you want my opinion, this could be a wicked shakeout to end the (possible) reaccumulation range that started with a buying climax on July 12. The volume on the daily is not high (it's medium-ish) and the sentiment would classify this as climactic action, putting us sideways for awhile but not breaking the prevailing uptrend. Problems may arise if volume begins to expand, however. I'm betting against this as the rally from $220 was characterized by a lack of supply, where the quality of ownership of the supply float is good and will not let go at these prices. But what do I know--the market can do anything at any time. 

The whales supporting the market have suspended market order purchases, but have absorbed thousands of coins on the way down in limit orders. This is bullish. They will wait to see how much supply is around this range before resuming, or waiting, in which case the price may skid lower.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Jesus, this is the worst time for this all to happen as I'm in freaking Scotland on tour without access to my normal analysis routine... A nail-biter for sure. 
> 
> If you want my opinion, this could be a wicked shakeout to end the (possible) reaccumulation range that started with a buying climax on July 12. The volume on the daily is not high (it's medium-ish) and the sentiment would classify this as climactic action, putting us sideways for awhile but not breaking the prevailing uptrend. Problems may arise if volume begins to expand, however. I'm betting against this as the rally from $220 was characterized by a lack of supply, where the quality of ownership of the supply float is good and will not let go at these prices. But what do I know--the market can do anything at any time. 
> 
> The whales supporting the market have suspended market order purchases, but have absorbed thousands of coins on the way down in limit orders. This is bullish. They will wait to see how much supply is around this range before resuming, or waiting, in which case the price may skid lower.


Are you in a position?  

I must admit, I really should've seen that obvious descending triangle that let to the last dump, but I was busy with work and hiking out on Mt. Bai Hua in China and decided not to trade, although I could have.  4xforecaster was bearish, as well, which was another signal I should not have ignored, as he is a superb trader and has been doing this a long time.  The pattern was there and both he and Chris Dunn, another famous trader, agreed on this so it should have been a slam dunk.

*sigh*  next time...

----------


## djthistle01

wow, I can't believe the $#@! I am reading. a) you gotta look out for  your hommies b) hommies gotta never go in too deep c) this is exactly  why my service teaches people and I never tell people what to do, EVER!.  For 0.5BTC you don't need to follow anyone because you know it for  yourself. Just floored right now. I thought I would pop back in during  the bull market to help out like minded people, but damn. Just damn.  Sorry everyone. 

If you are still trading because we are  Libertarian hommies, even if you don't want to join the group, shoot me a  PM and I can give you some tips on trading plans. we all different  lives thus all need different trading plans.
_
"I am one of the most conservative traders you will met though   That was why I suggested i a previous post to try building and exiting a  position in portions. I also never go more 5% into a $#@!coin, 10% into  bigger coins. rarely ever more than 20%. BTC is king, don't piss way  coins."_

----------


## dannno

Latest trades from free version of Honey Badger:



Inbox

[Bot] **ALERT** HONEY BADGER SAYS: FIAT TIME - 284.396
	 	Jul 25
Tradewave

[Bot] **ALERT** HONEY BADGER SAYS: BUY OR CRY - 263.996
	 	Aug 8
Tradewave

----------


## fatjohn

Sorry to hear about this. Don't really want to get into a thing, but personally, i don't feel pres owes me a warning. That might be different for other people and perhaps rightfully so.

Now, i still have skin in the game, most btc and a sizeable portion ltc.
What suprised me is that both went down equally, when normally ltc price swings are larger, definitely at these valuations. If you look to ltc/btc these are clearly the final stages of a closing wedge. Where will it go? The arguments.

Up:
The wedge held under tremeandous selling pressure just a couple of hours ago.
Ltc halving is still 15 days away.
Bitcoin could Have just tested the bottom of a 5 year long log channel (but this is a bit speculative see this chart from april https://www.tradingview.com/x/FsCnhZJt/) 

Down:
Pres' bot sold
Litcoinhalving is only 15 days away
Market under pressure
Murphy's law

Just check in often if ltc btc goes under 0,014 look out below if it goes above 0,16 we're heading back to 0,032

Actually 0,0145 and 0,0155 should do it, that's how narrow this wedge is. Should resolve itself in a matter of hours.

----------


## amonasro

> Are you in a position?  
> 
> I must admit, I really should've seen that obvious descending triangle that let to the last dump, but I was busy with work and hiking out on Mt. Bai Hua in China and decided not to trade, although I could have.  4xforecaster was bearish, as well, which was another signal I should not have ignored, as he is a superb trader and has been doing this a long time.  The pattern was there and both he and Chris Dunn, another famous trader, agreed on this so it should have been a slam dunk.
> 
> *sigh*  next time...


Yeah im still long. I'm not sure why everyone's so emotional--disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer.  I've held through worse than this. Pres has been lambasted for his predictions before when they were "wrong"... it's not like he is here to make you easy money, trading is hard. Really hard, especially when the market shakes out like this. 

According to Wyckoff (which is the method I use) the shakeout happens when there are too many bearish traders but the majority of informed holders (the composite operator) wants to be bullish, so he allows the market to spring below the trading range for awhile to build up shorts and clean out the selling for a move up (in theory). In today's case the spring is on medium volume so we may have to  live in this area for awhile to clean things up. 

The he way he teaches you to look at things is by reading volume and judging whether the excess supply that would normally keep the price down is absorbed or not by the composite operator--that is, you must constantly ask whether the floating supply of stock is held by quality ownership OR by short term traders willing to sell at a moment's notice. The composite operator is aware of the tendencies of the average trader and uses the shakeout to pick up more shares at bargain prices. 

When the the supply float is held by a majority of long-term holders after an extended sideways accumulation range, Wyckoff considered this to be the best place to initiate long positions in anticipation of a bull market.

----------


## fatjohn

Hey this is the first time i took an in depth look to the order book and it doesnt register stop loss orders (o buying when the price reaches higher than the current price, why is that?

----------


## Dianne

> YES
> 
> Sell orders set for 0335
> 
> rebuying 0270's
> 
> I expect an opportunity to make that trade twice in a very short period in about 10-12 days.


Post from July 29 when presence was asked if he is still holding LTC.    Never again, never again.

----------


## fatjohn

Pff dianne, you're saying things you might want to sit on for a while before you actually say it. Also with regards to a couple of posts back, be very careful of giving someone money to make money for you. Bitcoin universe is a wild thing.

As fontoday's price action. Something is brewing. I'm buying ltc if it goes over 0,0153 and I'm selling it if it goes below 0,0145. I hope it spikes though.

----------


## Tycoon

> temporarily.
> 
> I was out on 8/6 around 2 am'ish
> 
> I don't recall the price.


okay. you were drawing nice charts projecting LTC to go to the moon, I asked you if cup handle was confirmed, you said you still waiting, so I desided to wait too. You know people are actually might be putting their real, earned money on your forecasts (sorry for my english), like I did, but you didn't even updated us on your LTC position in this thread. ah well. the slightest post like "I'm out of LTC" would do the trick.

----------


## bullhammer

> LOL I'm leaving this thread myself.    This thread has caused me far more damage then good.





I just want to stick up for LightPresence here, I know many have suffered losses here and I can identify with that for sure. Trading involves risk and everyone needs to take responsibility for their own trades and accounts etc. that is one of the reasons crypto is what it is, it is decentralized and one needs to secure and take full responsibility for their coinage(be your own central bank!). And besides LTC hasn't crashed that far I might add! I'm still in 50% LTC. I met LP maybe a year and a half ago in the BTC-e trollbox. We hit it off well discussing cryptos and trading etc. He has helped me recover coins off questionable exchanges for free (I gladly donated LTC to him which he did not ask for) Also he has helped with trading strategies at key times again with no compensation! He has always been a stand up guy and open and honest  with me. I'm not sure what agreement everyone had with him regarding honey badger but the markets can turn on a dime! the markets can dump in the time it takes to take a dump! If one was waiting for trade signals simply on updates on this feed, something tells me you might miss huge moves! I'm guessing LP is pretty stressed now so I just wanted to state here for the record, I'm with ya LP %100.

----------


## amonasro

> okay. you were drawing nice charts projecting LTC to go to the moon, I asked you if cup handle was confirmed, you said you still waiting, so I desided to wait too. You know people are actually might be putting their real, earned money on your forecasts (sorry for my english), like I did, but you didn't even updated us on your LTC position in this thread. ah well. the slightest post like "I'm out of LTC" would do the trick.


I'll stick up for Pres too. He is here to provide market analysis and, based on that, what he thinks has a high probability of happening today, tomorrow and next month. Nobody knows what will really happen, and if they claim to, they are full of it. 

The worst is when I see new traders blindly following an analyst with a good track record, then they get burned and blame him when the tide turns and they haven't used stop losses correctly. That's trading 101. Good technicians can give you a road map, but the trader is ultimately responsible for learning how to safely drive the car without crashing, or stop the car and bail if things get too bumpy.

----------


## Dianne

> I'll stick up for Pres too. He is here to provide market analysis and, based on that, what he thinks has a high probability of happening today, tomorrow and next month. Nobody knows what will really happen, and if they claim to, they are full of it. 
> 
> The worst is when I see new traders blindly following an analyst with a good track record, then they get burned and blame him when the tide turns and they haven't used stop losses correctly. That's trading 101. Good technicians can give you a road map, but the trader is ultimately responsible for learning how to safely drive the car without crashing, or stop the car and bail if things get too bumpy.


You got it wrong.   No one is blaming Pres. for poor advice.    That's the risk we took.    What I am upset about is after encouraging several of us to buy for the moon, once Pres. figured out he was wrong he dumped all his coins days ago and never said a thing.     In other words he saved his ass, and left us holding the bag (literally).

----------


## Tycoon

> I'll stick up for Pres too. He is here to provide market analysis and, based on that, what he thinks has a high probability of happening today, tomorrow and next month. Nobody knows what will really happen, and if they claim to, they are full of it. 
> 
> The worst is when I see new traders blindly following an analyst with a good track record, then they get burned and blame him when the tide turns and they haven't used stop losses correctly. That's trading 101. Good technicians can give you a road map, but the trader is ultimately responsible for learning how to safely drive the car without crashing, or stop the car and bail if things get too bumpy.


you missed the whole point of what I was saying, it's not about wheather his analysis was good or bad, obv I know the risks. he just told everyone that he's holding LTC (I can find post) and made the good point why, then he dumped and told this only some days later. you see what I'm trying to say? sorry my english is very limited, I wish I could express myself in my native language.

----------


## dannno

Part of the problem I think is we got day traders here looking for advice from a medium term trader. 

I took Pres' advice a few months ago to get into LTC, it look longer than most here expected but I was patient and it has paid off very well. I sold quite a bit and have subsequently bought lower. I took a little hit recently with LTC, lucked out and missed the bullet with my trading BTC thanks to honey badger.

----------


## amonasro

> You got it wrong.   No one is blaming Pres. for poor advice.    That's the risk we took.    What I am upset about is after encouraging several of us to buy for the moon, once Pres. figured out he was wrong he dumped all his coins days ago and never said a thing.     In other words he saved his ass, and left us holding the bag (literally).


Sorry about that Dianne, I guess I misunderstood the situation. I can understand this, however Pres is also selling a paid service so I am inclined to see it from his point of view as well, where he doesn't want to give out all of its trading signals for free. 

Still, one one should take trading advice here with appropriate grains of salt and risk management and assume that this thread can go silent at any time. If one is not an experienced trader one should consider running his free bot, load it with a small amount and watch it trade for a few months. You'd be surprised how much you learn and it's far less stressful than live trading.

Still, I can understand the frustration. Shakeouts are meant to cause pain.

----------


## presence

> You got it wrong.   No one is blaming Pres. for poor advice.    That's the risk we took.    What I am upset about is after encouraging several of us to buy for the moon, once Pres. figured out he was wrong he dumped all his coins days ago and never said a thing.     In other words he saved his ass, and left us holding the bag (literally).


Dianne BTC and LTC long... super long = moon:

We're trading deflationary currency and every day more coins are lost to the abyss.  

I damn well believe we'll see $100,000 / BTC in our lifetimes.

Everything else is RISKY short play to get more coins.




We all miss shorts from time to time.


I'm buying back in piecewise already supporting with a hidden wall on DRK at 3.08



Reviewing charts this morning I see no reason why LTC can't consolidate and push onwards to the 0335 ceiling.



_
crypto long, moar coinz short_

----------


## muh_roads

> I'll stick up for Pres too. He is here to  provide market analysis and, based on that, what he thinks has a high  probability of happening today, tomorrow and next month. Nobody knows  what will really happen, and if they claim to, they are full of it. 
> 
> The worst is when I see new traders blindly following an analyst with a  good track record, then they get burned and blame him when the tide  turns and they haven't used stop losses correctly. That's trading 101.  Good technicians can give you a road map, but the trader is ultimately  responsible for learning how to safely drive the car without crashing,  or stop the car and bail if things get too bumpy.


Read his post  again.  I think you missed the point of why some people  are feeling down about the situation.  Dianne gets it.  There was  purposeful deceit to hold back info and treat his  own RPF thread like  the btc-e trollbox.  It says it all right there.

It isn't the financial loss that bothers me.  I made the trades,  they are my fault.  I didn't pay pres, that is my fault too.  He isn't  obligated to post anything.  None of us are.  Pres can do whatever he  wants.  I just didn't know he was so hard up for 0.08 when it mattered  most after initially providing so much "buy" info beforehand.  This  makes it look like your classic P&D for the benefit of others and I  can't blame people here for feeling a little used.  Especially the new  guys.

He wanted "his guys" to exit first.  Pres is free to do what he wants.   It just feels like a huge dick move since August 3rd was a week ago.   Maybe the 4th would've been considerate?  I dunno.

I may not have even taken the sell advice.  I just like multiple data  points and I thought there was more of a "brotherhood" here, as corny as  that sounds.  But if people aren't going to talk and instead choose to  keep secrets, then I don't feel there is much need for me to be here as  often either.  I can no longer in good conscience recommend this thread  to others anymore.  It makes me feel terrible.

I'm glad pres was honest last night about where his allegiances belong.   It made me realize where I should refocus my own enthusiasm for things  as well.

I'm not going to stop posting, just go into extended lurk mode.  After  all the threads I've posted trying to bring news to RPF since late 2012 /  early 2013 and the abuse that comes out of that from bitcoin haters,  I'd appreciate it if people didn't think I am being a baby about this.   I'm just feeling very...exhausted...is all I can think of.

I'm truly glad this event occurred.  I view this as a "blessing" as I've  got a couple  other projects I've been thinking about starting for a  while and it sounds refreshing to focus attention elsewhere.  People  know where the mainstream bitcoin news can be found by now so me posting  threads I don't think is needed.  I'll still post the occasional  obscure info piece if I see it.  I just really want to do something else  now.

'Eh, I typed more than I meant to say.  Good luck everyone.

----------


## Dianne

> Sorry about that Dianne, I guess I misunderstood the situation. I can understand this, however Pres is also selling a paid service so I am inclined to see it from his point of view as well, where he doesn't want to give out all of its trading signals for free. 
> 
> Still, one one should take trading advice here with appropriate grains of salt and risk management and assume that this thread can go silent at any time. If one is not an experienced trader one should consider running his free bot, load it with a small amount and watch it trade for a few months. You'd be surprised how much you learn and it's far less stressful than live trading.
> 
> Still, I can understand the frustration. Shakeouts are meant to cause pain.


If that's the case, Pres should not give free advice on this forum ... Like BUY, BUY ... LTC going to .03 within the next few days.    He should link his "pay for service" website here and those who wish to follow him do so.     But don't shout BUY in the forum, induce others to buy quickly.    You can understand why some here believe he may be a troll now ...     He induced us (not the first time), to buy in big; he made money, sold in time and left his RPF peeps in the crapper.     Not very nice.    Possibly he's just a kid... I don't know much about him.    He may be 15 years old for all I know, and has not yet learned anything about integrity.

----------


## Dianne

> Read his post  again.  I think you missed the point of why some people  are feeling down about the situation.  Dianne gets it.  There was  purposeful deceit to hold back info and treat his  own RPF thread like  the btc-e trollbox.  It says it all right there.
> 
> It isn't the financial loss that bothers me.  I made the trades,  they are my fault.  I didn't pay pres, that is my fault too.  He isn't  obligated to post anything.  None of us are.  Pres can do whatever he  wants.  I just didn't know he was so hard up for 0.08 when it mattered  most after initially providing so much "buy" info beforehand.  This  makes it look like your classic P&D for the benefit of others and I  can't blame people here for feeling a little used.  Especially the new  guys.
> 
> He wanted "his guys" to exit first.  Pres is free to do what he wants.   It just feels like a huge dick move since August 3rd was a week ago.   Maybe the 4th would've been considerate?  I dunno.
> 
> I may not have even taken the sell advice.  I just like multiple data  points and I thought there was more of a "brotherhood" here, as corny as  that sounds.  But if people aren't going to talk and instead choose to  keep secrets, then I don't feel there is much need for me to be here as  often either.  I can no longer in good conscience recommend this thread  to others anymore.  It makes me feel terrible.
> 
> I'm glad pres was honest last night about where his allegiances belong.   It made me realize where I should refocus my own enthusiasm for things  as well.
> ...


I actually believe admins should take this entire thread down.    If Litepresence is a "Pay to Play", then it should be disclosed and he should be a company paying for advertising rather than sucking fellow RPF peeps into pumping coins he is invested in.  

It is a conflict of interest, a business proposition that should be advertised as such.

----------


## dannno

> I actually believe admins should take this entire thread down.    If Litepresence is a "Pay to Play", then it should be disclosed and he should be a company paying for advertising rather than sucking fellow RPF peeps into pumping coins he is invested in.  
> 
> It is a conflict of interest, a business proposition that should be advertised as such.


I'd still like to see his posts.

----------


## Dianne

> I'd still like to see his posts.


I don't have a problem with him posting, but his posts should say something like "For further information, visit www.litepresence.   (whatever) .    Then on his website he can disclose what the fees are.

Right now we think of him as family, within this group of Ron Paul supporters who have been together for eight years.    I just believe people will continue to lose money, unless they understand Presence is a "Pay to Play" business.     Buy in, buy in ...   won't tell you when to sell unless you pay me.     It's capitalism, for sure; but needs to be disclosed.

----------


## dannno

Well he does discuss that, most recently here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5938755

It sounds to me like extenuating circumstances of protecting clients, I don't think he was using the thread to make extra money and if it had waited another day before crashing we may have seen a post notification. It sounds like it all happened so fast.

----------


## presence

> It just feels like a huge dick move since August 3rd was a week  ago.   *Maybe the 4th would've been considerate?*  I dunno.


*Again... you're missing the timeline:*

August 3 at noon -   Master bot sold 0.25 of my BTC (that's all it controls).  

August 3, 4, and 5 - Rewiring attic at 140 degrees in August heat.  Oblivious to the master signal.   Checked my slave account account each night... "bot was still holding no worries".  

August 5th - Pouring concrete for spring development.  Hard hitting day after frying in an attic.  

August 5th just before midnight - I check all accounts and all live bot instances.    6 accounts at 3 exchanges; 3 live botscript instances.    I noticed HB Master sold....   something amuk.   I had been pouring concrete all day... got in at dark.    WTF?

August 6th wee hours of the morning.   I sent out an email to my clients "Honeybadger sold".   I was pretty sketchy about this as the master and my personal slave were not aligned.

August 6th 9AM - Recieved several WTF emails... "My bot didn't do anything"     $#@!.    I sent out panic email to clients, omg something is $#@!ed.   "Dump coins.  Kill script."  





August  6th 9AM until August 8 Noon -  Marathon programming session.  No  emails, no phone calls.  No contact with outside world.  Negligible sleep.  Lots of Espresso.  WTF is wrong?   Why my master bot saying Capitulation and all Slaves still saying Green Dragon?   Get signal online ASAP.    Confirm "Capitulation" was actually occurring.   40 paying clients expect and deserve service.  2000 lines of complex python code to unravel that I hadn't messed with at all in over a month.   

August 8th Noon - 48+ hours no sleep.  Solution!   It was a platform engine update error that killed my signal... unrelated to my script.  The only thing that actually fixed the problem was simply changing he broadcast channel.   Contacted clients.  Contacted tradewave admin.  Got signal back online.  Advised all users to restart on new channel.

August 8th Noon to 8:30 PM.   Still no sleep.   Ground support for backhoe operator moving 600lb precast concrete rings all day.   Chains and pinch bars.  Deep in a hole of cold water.     Price precipitously fell $277 to $255.

August 8th 10 PM.   Post at RPF.  

August 8th 11 PM.  Get royally chewed out because my loyalty should have been to an individual that tipped me (albeit generously) 18 months ago instead of to my contractual duty to current subscribers and my local freshwater spring development client.



_
Full disclosure:
_

I was 60% DRK 30% LTC and 10% BTC on the 5th.   Balls deep.   
Quite confident in "moon on"; under the impression my signal agreed.  

I was able to sell half my drk, all my ltc, and all my btc. when BTC was still $279 and dark was $3.5

I panic hodl'd the rest of the drk because of the low liquidity.

If you're panic selling drk $3.08, be advised that's me buying my other half back @ 12% discount; penny pumping cryptsy and hidden at finex.

Divesting or acquiring a position in DRK, like NVC, is a multi day operation.


Do as you will.

----------


## Dianne

> *Again... you're missing the timeline:*
> 
> August 3 at noon -   Master bot sold 0.25 of my BTC (that's all it controls).  
> 
> August 3, 4, and 5 - Rewiring attic at 140 degrees in July heat.  Oblivious to the master signal.   Checked my slave account account each night... "bot was still holding no worries".  
> 
> August 5th - Pouring concrete for spring development.  Hard hitting day after frying in an attic.  
> 
> August 5th just before midnight - I check all accounts and all live bot instances.    6 accounts at 3 exchanges; 3 live botscript instances.    I noticed HB Master sold....   something amuk.   I had been pouring concrete all day... got in at dark.    WTF?
> ...


The most telling in above is you sent e mails out to clients.    That is why you should be registered here as a business.    You are a pay to play organization..   advertise as such and don't make innocents on rpf believe you are here introducing us to crypto currencies and teaching us how to read charts and invest wisely.

Many of us on this thread are not your clients.   We didn't even know we had to pay for your services.

----------


## dannno

Have you ever spent 10+ hours/days doing hard labor?

This was a minor sell-off in a bull market, it looks like things are already heading back up.

----------


## LibertyTeeth

> The most telling in above is you sent e mails out to clients.    That is why you should be registered here as a business.    You are a pay to play organization..   advertise as such and don't make innocents on rpf believe you are here introducing us to crypto currencies and teaching us how to read charts and invest wisely.
> 
> Many of us on this thread are not your clients.   We didn't even know we had to pay for your services.


I remember a few years ago there was an extended period of time during which litepresence could not be communicated with.  "He was traveling" but yeah, text retrieval isn't bandwidth-intensive.

And I HAVE paid for his services.

So is this "melt down 2.0"?

PS The earth is flat, scamming people under the watchful eye of the creator isn't scoring you any points that you can do anything with.

----------


## presence

> I don't have a problem with him posting, but his posts should say something like "For further information, visit www.litepresence.   (whatever) .    Then on his website he can disclose what the fees are.
> 
> Right now we think of him as family, within this group of Ron Paul supporters who have been together for eight years.    I just believe people will continue to lose money, unless they understand Presence is a "Pay to Play" business.     Buy in, buy in ...   
> 
> _won't tell you when to sell unless you pay me._ 
> 
> 
> It's capitalism, for sure; but needs to be disclosed.


Had my signal not gone down I would have alerted "tipping or close friends",  RPF, my twitter following, and BTCe trollbox (typically in that order) 2 hours later or as soon as I noticed thereafter:  Its typically_ in my economic interest_ to troll down when HB is short.   I would have loved to have noticed that HB sold on August 3rd at noon and have announced that here 2 hours later after all my accounts were cleared..    It would have MADE MY DAY to inform my friends and RPF back then.     It typically only takes about 2 hours for HB to move the banks of all the slaves across 5 exchanges without causing slippage.  After that I would want the sell pressure.  Hence I usually post "HB sold" pretty quickly and go off on a long tangent about why.... 

*which... is much more important and I'll probably get into next.  In my gut HB will soon find out this isn't actually "capitulation" but just the 1st selloff. * 

Nonetheless... I didn't want any sell pressure this time because instead of HB moving banks swiftly... due to technical issues banks were getting moved as emails were received.   
Things were malfunctioning; I needed time not sell pressure.  My client's money is my money.   My money moves first.  I'm in Morse Code mode.



I do have a short list of occasionally "tipping" clients that I also often send private alerts to... either by skype or email.     I didn't send any of those private... free *"pay it forwards"* out for this short; but that doesn't mean I won't be loyal next time.   I've actually considered automating this process with a SMS alert sent by honeybadger 2 hours after it dumps:    Send out a new SMS every 5 minutes to a new email address and keep a personal running list of who tips best at the top of the list of urgency. 

Its capitalism for sure.   I have mouths to feed. 

Looking back, I know Simran (usually in buy and hold long position) was after a good short too and I didn't hook him up either.   He had explicitly offered a fat tip for a solid short call this month.    Responsibility is a bitch though.  


with enough steel balls... crypto long is almost never a bad place to be though; and he knows that.

That kid is steel balled and I think he'll be just fine.  

_deflationary
lost coins
$100,000 / btc long_

My philosophy in crypto, the premise that HB is born from: only go short if you've got a damn good reason not to otherwise be long.


so I wasn't here to hold anyone's hand and some of you held through... will the panic continue? we'll see in days to come.   In the mean time... I'm taking my 12% moar drk coinz and calling it good.

----------


## presence

//

----------


## presence

> "He was traveling" but yeah, text retrieval isn't bandwidth-intensive.
> 
> []
> 
> So is this "melt down 2.0"?
> []
> 
> scamming people


That was over a year ago and yes I was industriously hacking into insecure wifi for about 10 days while on the road.  

Is it a "meltdown"?   

Well the signal went dead 4 days for sure.   About 2 days undetected and 2 days to get it back online.


But I did get email alerts out to all subscribed with explicit instructions to sell by 9 AM on the 6th on day 2; price touched back to $280 briefly and 2 days passed before the waterfall.  

scamming people?

really?

How about you get a signal set up which has stayed positive both in BTC and USD terms since inception... serve it to 40 people live without slippage... announce your trades publicly... check it like a farm animal that needs whether you have time or not.



ROI actual:


```
[2014-12-11 12:00:00] 1418300000
[2014-12-11 12:00:00]  SELL: 1.00 BTC (at 349.00 USD)
[2014-12-19 00:00:00] 1438500000
[2014-12-19 00:00:00]  BUY: 1.11635256 BTC (at 312.00 USD)
[2014-12-22 00:00:00] 1430410000
[2014-12-22 00:00:00]  SELL: 1.11411985 BTC (at 322.00 USD)
[2015-01-14 00:00:00] 1430040000
[2015-01-14 00:00:00]  BUY: 1.74648341 BTC (at 205.00 USD)
[2015-01-25 12:00:00] 1429746000
[2015-01-25 12:00:00]  SELL: 1.74299044 BTC (at 249.00 USD)
[2015-02-15 00:00:00] 1429246000
[2015-02-15 00:00:00]  BUY: 1.69857494 BTC (at 255.00 USD)
[2015-02-16 00:00:00] 1429146000
[2015-02-16 00:00:00]  SELL: 1.69517779 BTC (at 230.00 USD)
[2015-02-19 12:00:00] 1427842800
[2015-02-19 12:00:00]  BUY: 1.62807996 BTC (at 239.00 USD)
[2015-03-22 13:00:00] 1427256000
[2015-03-22 13:00:00]  SELL: 1.6248238 BTC (at 267.00 USD)
[2015-03-25 01:00:00] 1427006800
[2015-03-25 01:00:00]  BUY: 1.7528757 BTC (at 247.00 USD)
[2015-04-01 01:00:00] 1424350400
[2015-04-01 01:00:00]  SELL: 1.74936995 BTC (at 242.00 USD)
[2015-04-16 01:00:00] 1424056000
[2015-04-16 01:00:00]  BUY: 1.87778148 BTC (at 225.00 USD)
[2015-04-17 01:00:00] 1423958400
[2015-04-17 01:00:00]  SELL: 1.87402592 BTC (at 222.00 USD)
[2015-04-23 01:00:00] 1422200800
[2015-04-23 01:00:00]  BUY: 1.78966244 BTC (at 232.00 USD)
[2015-04-26 13:00:00] 1421200000
[2015-04-26 13:00:00]  SELL: 1.78608312 BTC (at 215.00 USD)
[2015-04-30 13:00:00] 1419206400
[2015-04-30 13:00:00]  BUY: 1.6308079 BTC (at 235.00 USD)
[2015-08-02 13:00:00] 1418936800
[2015-08-02 13:00:00]  SELL: 1.62754628 BTC (at 279.00 USD)
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] ***********************************
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] start date: 2014-12-10 05:00:00
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] start BTC value: 1.00
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] start USD value: 346.00
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] end BTC value: 1.76
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] end USD value: 453.18
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] trades 17
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] days 242.00
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] frequency 14.24 days/trade


[2015-08-09 01:00:00] ROI_assets 1.76X
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] ROI_currency 1.31X
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] ROI_BNH 0.74X


[2015-08-09 01:00:00] MAX DD......: -23.45 pct
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] MAX BNH DD..: -47.31 pct
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] >> [1.00 BTC]
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] >> [453.17724199 USD]
[2015-08-09 01:00:00] >> Profit: 107.17724199 USD (estimated)
```

https://tradewave.net/strategy/BnplZAgHKS

----------


## presence

BTC on the neckline of head and shoulders post fall...   Critical support point.

Bitfinex, et al banning NY customers due to bitlicense is probably the "cause" of FUD

----------


## fatjohn

LTC/BTC in a wedge

----------


## fatjohn

LTC breakout on OKCoin!

----------


## fatjohn

LTC Moon on its way!
Edit: maybe not yet.
Edit2: great, now I made an ass out of myself.

----------


## Tycoon

> LTC/BTC in a wedge


what does this mean? a major move incoming? which way though?

----------


## bullhammer

> Post from July 29 when presence was asked if he is still holding LTC.    Never again, never again.


not sure if you still are around but I thought I would let you know that I bought my 50% LTC back last night while I slept @3.84 for what its worth......
I wondering if the others would have minded that much if LP just made a quick post here on this feed that badge sold, in hindsight probably would of saved a lot of grief,
Im kinda bummed that all this went down cause I was really enjoying this site and I hope most everyone sticks around on this feed. Forgiveness goes a long way for both parties.......

----------


## fatjohn

Well it meant it was in á precarious situation. However it broke through resistance so I'm pretty bullish on ltc now

----------


## bullhammer

wow, look likes pretty lonely in here!

----------


## djthistle01

DRK/DASH 3.08 has been crossed to the downside

LTC and BTC trend together, but not with much strength

good astrology window is closing (the 13th) and it's drifting into a neutral zone.

Chinese Ghost Month starts on the 14th

NY customers forced liquidation is the 15th

watch yer asses out there, be careful!

----------


## fatjohn

> LTC/BTC in a wedge


Ok now both of these trendlines have been taken out, first the top one, then the bottom.

I can see a million secondary uptrends but none that really convince me it will hold, I think just wishfull thinking from my part. 
I feel a bit like a gambler holding LTC right now.

Edit with a lot of imagination I drew these log channels in CNY (bottom channel now at 20 CNY:

----------


## djthistle01

> DRK/DASH 3.08 has been crossed to the downside
> 
> LTC and BTC trend together, but not with much strength
> 
> good astrology window is closing (the 13th) and it's drifting into a neutral zone.
> 
> Chinese Ghost Month starts on the 14th
> 
> NY customers forced liquidation is the 15th
> ...


pew pew pew!!! buying the fuuuh of out 252. huge support trend there. cheers.

----------


## presence

*Mike Hearn
6 hrs ago

13 min read*







https://medium.com/@octskyward/why-i...g-d647312d22c1








> *Why is Bitcoin forking?*
> 
> *A tale of differing visions*
> 
> So  this is it. Here we are. The community is divided and Bitcoin is  forking: both the software and, perhaps, the block chain too. The two  sides of the split are Bitcoin Core and a slight variant of the same  program, called Bitcoin XT. As of August 15th, there is now a full release available.
> Such  a fork has never happened before. I want to explain things from the  perspective of the Bitcoin XT developers: let it not be said there was  insufficient communication.
> 
> 
> Bitcoin  forking is a topic that may interest many people, so this article is  meant for a general audience. It doesnt assume previous knowledge of  the debate.
> ...

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

WoF is about to use his bitcoins, quick drop the price of BTC!

----------


## kfarnan

LP, I just read parts of the forked article above.  Gavin showed at 20 Mb. you could run a home computer node with no problem.  It was already proven to work as described by Satoshi.  Why is 8 Mb. such a big deal?

----------


## presence

> *[bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT Fork* *Satoshi Nakamoto*      satoshi at vistomail.com        
> _Sat Aug 15 17:43:54 UTC 2015_ 
> Previous message: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT 0.11A Next message: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT Fork  *Messages sorted by:* [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>     I have been following the recent block size debates through the mailing list.  I had hoped the debate would resolve and that a fork proposal would achieve widespread consensus.  However with the formal release of Bitcoin XT 0.11A, this looks unlikely to happen, and so I am forced to share my concerns about this very dangerous fork.
> 
> The developers of this pretender-Bitcoin claim to be following my original vision, but nothing could be further from the truth.  When I designed Bitcoin, I designed it in such a way as to make future modifications to the consensus rules difficult without near unanimous agreement.  Bitcoin was designed to be protected from the influence of charismatic leaders, even if their name is Gavin Andresen, Barack Obama, or Satoshi Nakamoto.  Nearly everyone has to agree on a change, and they have to do it without being forced or pressured into it.  By doing a fork in this way, these developers are violating the "original vision" they claim to honour.
> 
> They use my old writings to make claims about what Bitcoin was supposed to be.  However I acknowledge that a lot has changed since that time, and new knowledge has been gained that contradicts some of my early opinions.  For example I didn't anticipate pooled mining and its effects on the security of the network.  Making Bitcoin a competitive monetary system while also preserving its security properties is not a trivial problem, and we should take more time to come up with a robust solution.  I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism.
> 
> ...



http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pip...st/010238.html

----------


## presence

*https://ihb.io/2015-05-04/news/hard-fork-bitcoin-17003

Hard fork Bitcoin: Controversy over increasing the bitcoin block size resurfaces*

May 4th, 2015 | Amith Nirgunarthy 


                    0


*Hard fork Bitcoin*


 Gavin Andresen recently updated his Github account with code he is  testing to increase the block size limit to 20 mb from 1 mb today. In  typical fashion, the bitcoin community got very emotional and heated  responses ensued on reddit. It is no surprise that Gavin is moving in  this direction and has been very vocal about this plan for sometime now.
  In response to one reddit user’s comments, Gavin stated “it is  intended as ‘it is time to discuss this now.’ I will be writing a series  of blog posts in the coming week or two responding to objections I’ve  heard.”
 This is a big deal as the change in code would require a hard fork,  which if accepted would render miners who do not upgrade to be useless.
*What is a hard fork?*

 A hard fork happens when a new version of the full node client  accepts blocks as valid that previous versions would have rejected as  invalid. The moment such a block gets submitted to the live network, the  new clients will accept it and build on that chain, whereas the old  clients will reject it and start building on a different block at that  height, at which point the two networks are operating on different  longest chains (hence fork). – From reddit user d4d5c4e5
 The Bitcoin wiki has a page dedicated to keeping a “Hardfork  Wishlist” to record changes to Bitcoin that might be desirable, but that  will require a “hard” block-chain split (everybody must upgrade, old  software will not accept blocks/transactions created with the new rules,  considering them to be invalid blocks).
 So it is safe to say hardfork discussions have been around for a  while, but it seems many vocal members of the community look at  hardforks with great suspicion.
*Technom4ge comments from reddit*

 I understand your arguments. I don’t see Bitcoin necessarily needing  to aim at Visa transaction counts directly either. However Bitcoin does  need to reach the amounts of regular wire transfers / SEPA directly and  currently it simply doesn’t cut it.
The 1MB limit is not some holy grail Satoshi came up with, with good  reasons. No, unlike many of Bitcoin’s features, this one was almost  arbitrary and clearly meant as a temporary measure.
Summa summarum, I agree we shouldn’t try to solve all transaction use  cases with Bitcoin direct. However even taking that into account, 1MB is  not enough.
 Personally I see the 20MB as a great compromise. It does not affect  full nodes requirements in any significant way and this has already been  proven. And it allows the base network itself to handle at least a  decent amount of transactions.
*Some common issues regarding the increase in block size*

*Transaction Fee Death Spiral*
 In common economics, when scarcity is high, so is demand. Therefore,  many bitcoin enthusiasts believe it is essential to maintain the block  size limit (limiting the transaction amount creates scarcity) in order  to create demand and avoid transaction fees going to zero. However, the  economic theory states that in a competitive market, supply, demand, and  price will find an equilibrium.
*Centralization Death Spiral*
 In order to run a fully-validating node client, a complete copy of  the public ledger must be kept up-to-date. If the block limit size was  increased to an arbitrarily large amount, only entities with access to  large data centers will be able to support the network. We will  inevitably be required to rely upon large institutions to support the  network, resulting in Bitcoin’s biggest fear – centralization.
*Block Subsidy, Fees, and Blockchain Security*
 The block size limit of 1MB currently supports approximately  7-transactions-per-second. The concern is if the transaction fees will  draw enough mining power to secure the network as the block reward  reduces over time. Those in favor of increasing the block size support  the argument by saying transaction fees will be lower, but more  transactions will generate more fees.

----------


## presence

> LP, I just read parts of the forked article above.  Gavin showed at 20 Mb. you could run a home computer node with no problem.  It was already proven to work as described by Satoshi.  Why is 8 Mb. such a big deal?





*Gavin Andresen Proposes 20 MB Block Size: Pros and Cons*

*scalability - What are the arguments for and against* 

*Great technical discussion of block size increase issues on ...*

*Peter Todd said 20MB blocks would cause the orphan rate ...*

*Ongoing Debate on Proposal to Increase Bitcoin Block Size* 

*Elastic block cap with rollover penalties - Bitcoin Forum*

*[Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase*

----------


## presence

_the vision Satoshi outlined in the original whitepaper_

----------


## muh_roads

I see pres sold and is trying to scare the price down with big bolded letters that mean nothing.

Stop making it look scary.  It's not scary.  Each fork is running in tandem live right now.  XT is a backup just in case larger blocks are needed before March 2016.

The new path is not 20MB, it is 8MB.  In 2018 it then becomes 16MB.  Miners will always get on board when needed just as they did in Feb of 2013.

Samsung is showing off 16TB SSD drives now.  I wish people would shut up about this non-issue.  Little bear kiddie children with just a couple coins on twitter are being overly obnoxious about it as they pump their uber tiny market cap $#@!coins.

----------


## Dianne

> I see pres sold and is trying to scare the price down with big bolded letters that mean nothing.
> 
> Stop making it look scary.  It's not scary.  Each fork is running in tandem live right now.  XT is a backup just in case larger blocks are needed before March 2016.
> 
> The new path is not 20MB, it is 8MB.  In 2018 it then becomes 16MB.  Miners will always get on board when needed just as they did in Feb of 2013.
> 
> Samsung is showing off 16TB SSD drives now.  I wish people would shut up about this non-issue.  Little bear kiddie children with just a couple coins on twitter are being overly obnoxious about it as they pump their uber tiny market cap $#@!coins.


I again ask Mods to take this thread down.    Presence, aka litepresence is a "pay to play" business and should be purchasing advertising space on this forum, rather than trolling here freely to take advantage of new crypto investors.    There is a place on btc-e where he can troll freely.    But RPF should be a sanctuary of like minded, freedom loving spirits who can feel safe among friends.

----------


## Crashland

> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pip...st/010238.html


Why even bother posting this when there is zero evidence that this is actually Satoshi? Nobody in the crypto community takes this seriously.

----------


## djthistle01

> pew pew pew!!! buying the fuuuh of out 252. huge support trend there. cheers.


almost there 

but the crappy thing is i am away for another week and only have spotty internt. LP, we dooming till the week before the blood moon or not? 252 should be a bounce. but this is all looking pretty poopy right now.

----------


## muh_roads

> Why even bother posting this when there is zero evidence that this is actually Satoshi? Nobody in the crypto community takes this seriously.


Yep, exactly.  Why post something so obviously fake?  Satoshi broke his 4 year silence over this?  Gimme a break.  Really disappointed in the direction this thread has gone.

----------


## presence

> Why even bother posting this when there is zero evidence that this is actually Satoshi? Nobody in the crypto community takes this seriously.


Does it have to actually be satoshi to represent and good or bad idea?


http://www.livescience.com/38561-channeling.html


Does it actually have to be satoshi to be in the spirit of satoshi?

----------


## presence

> I see pres sold and is trying to scare the price down with big bolded letters that mean nothing.


At the moment I'm actually holding; a split of DRK LTC and BTC

Honeybadger is still in "Capitulation".   

With this insight; I'm trading down as I have time to personally manage and see opportunity.   




I held the 3.08 DRK shelf for as long as I could.  

Now I'm washing 500 DRK a day at the margins headed down; goal to turn an extra 10-50 coins a day. 

Likewise positions in BTC and LTC.






> Stop making it look scary.  It's not scary.


The fork is THE issue on everyone's mind right here.  I posted pertinent information.  



 The other main issue is Bitlicense.  


Neither of these are bullish fundamentals.   But the rumor has passed and at some point soon we'll rally on the news that all is actually well.

----------


## Crashland

> Does it have to actually be satoshi to represent and good or bad idea?
> 
> 
> http://www.livescience.com/38561-channeling.html
> 
> 
> Does it actually have to be satoshi to be in the spirit of satoshi?


No it doesn't have to be Satoshi for it to be a good or bad idea. But the same thing has been argued by many already, and posting the one from "Satoshi" with big bold-ass letters serves no purpose other than to scare people or have them believe it is actually Satoshi.

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## muh_roads

I'm going to stop beating up on pres since people are free to do what  they want.  Although mentioning this RPF thread on the trollbox is a  good point, Dianne.

I made the trades so I have to own up to the  mistakes.  The alternative is Government SEC crap and I think everyone  in here has used the words pump or dump at some point, heh.  I'd prefer  to set the example that we can govern ourselves so I have to stick to  that philosophy.  No matter how much a person wants to blame another.

There were a lot of people saying "up" as well.  It's a game of roulette.

I just had to jump on pres with his _"I own up to nothing"_ schtick by bringing back some old quotes.  Which is really the crux of the frustration.




> Hence my silence the past few days. 
> Its been with a bitten lip.


dat bitten lip...  It just would've been nice to know you were serious about needing the 0.25 during the lip biting.

My kingdom for a time machine continues...

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> I haven't been keeping up.  You referring to Genesis Mining?


I got no idea. Someone said it was going to be illegal for them to offer their BTC services in New York or something

----------


## Dianne

> I'm going to stop beating up on pres since people are free to do what  they want.  Although mentioning this RPF thread on the trollbox is a  good point, Dianne.
> 
> I made the trades so I have to own up to the  mistakes.  The alternative is Government SEC crap and I think everyone  in here has used the words pump or dump at some point, heh.  I'd prefer  to set the example that we can govern ourselves so I have to stick to  that philosophy.  No matter how much a person wants to blame another.
> 
> There were a lot of people saying "up" as well.  It's a game of roulette.
> 
> I just had to jump on pres with his _"I own up to nothing"_ schtick by bringing back some old quotes.  Which is really the crux of the frustration.
> 
> 
> ...


Everything presence, aka litepresence says, is irrelevant to me going further.   I'm happy you have made amends, but I do hold deep resentment for those who have been seduced into Ronpaulforums, only to be ripped off. 

I agree, I believed him; I lost multiple times.     It was my fault.    I never expected corruption from a fellow RPF  supporter.     As I look back, until recently,  this thread was the only one he posted in.    This is his business, his way of supporting himself.     Which is all well and good, as long as it is disclosed.

That is why I was asking RPF to make him pay for advertising space, rather than sucking in those who innocently, believe RPF is a santuary .... a place to escape, free of corruption, lies, and manipulation.

----------


## muh_roads

> ...and they haven't used stop losses correctly.


Stop losses don't save you either.  Good traders get stopped out plenty of times.

----------


## muh_roads

> Everything presence, aka litepresence says, is irrelevant to me going further.   I'm happy you have made amends, but I do hold deep resentment for those who have been seduced into Ronpaulforums, only to be ripped off. 
> 
> I agree, I believed him; I lost multiple times.     It was my fault.    I never expected corruption from a fellow RPF  supporter.     As I look back, until recently,  this thread was the only one he posted in.    This is his business, his way of supporting himself.     Which is all well and good, as long as it is disclosed.
> 
> That is why I was asking RPF to make him pay for advertising space, rather than sucking in those who innocently, believe RPF is a santuary .... a place to escape, free of corruption, lies, and manipulation.


It is a sad state of affairs.  I wouldn't say we've made amends.  I just have to move on otherwise it is too frustrating to dwell on.  Others don't share the same sentiments so I'm just going to distance myself from it all.




> I got no idea. Someone said it was  going to be illegal for them to offer their BTC services in New York or  something


Yeah I haven't heard about any singular company dumping as a result of the licensing.  Just people moving out of the area.

----------


## amonasro

> Stop losses don't save you either.  Good traders get stopped out plenty of times.


No, but there's an inherent risk of loss that one must accept while trading. You quickly learn that you are playing against your worst emotional self where your own shortcomings come out to haunt you at the worst possible moments. 

One might play the blame game for awhile but at the end of the day, the responsibility and fault is one's own. Maybe you got greedy. Maybe you didn't study enough. Maybe you relied on one person too much. Maybe your good trades were luck. Maybe you're just in over your head. It's tough medicine but a required prescription in a competetive market that takes away just as quickly as it gives. Both fears are ever present and always palpable: Fear of missing out and fear of loss. One must tame these emotions in order to make the best, most logical decisions when entering and exiting positions. This includes the decision of who to listen to (or not) for advice. Pres is a talented market reader and botsmith but he's not always right and like anyone who has weathered a ruthless market, he is self-interested and not here to hold hands. Perhaps he could have made this clearer, but his standoff-ish approach with new traders was clear enough to me. 

I lost over $10,000 on a bad trade a few months ago. It was my first major loss and I was mad as hell at just about everybody. I battled with all of the fears described above before simply realizing where my fault was, accepting the consequences and using it to identify weakness in my trading plan. 

One poignant thing Richard Wyckoff said (whose writings I've been reading a lot of lately) is, *"The market is always with us."* ​Meaning there is no reason to rush into trading--there will always be future opportunities should one wish to be prepared for them.

----------


## presence

> What ever he paid for his "supporting membership status"


It was a personal gift from Bryan actually.

----------


## muh_roads

> Meaning there is no reason to rush into trading--there will always be future opportunities should one wish to be prepared for them.


I disagree with this 110% as it relates to bitcoin.  It's not a silly little cut & paste stock.  Collecting as much of the 21m supply is a race against the clock.  And that is why mistakes are so painful because these levels won't last forever.

If I felt we would just bounce between 200-300 for eternity then trading would be a lot easier.  You never know when some crazy news piece comes out that sends it to 450-500.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Stop losses don't save you either.  Good traders get stopped out plenty of times.


Stop losses save you if you know how to use them.  That's why I bite my lip every time I hear Dianne is making a trade.

----------


## amonasro

> I disagree with this 110% as it relates to bitcoin.  It's not a silly little cut & paste stock.  Collecting as much of the 21m supply is a race against the clock.  And that is why mistakes are so painful because these levels won't last forever.
> 
> If I felt we would just bounce between 200-300 for eternity then trading would be a lot easier.  You never know when some crazy news piece comes out that sends it to 450-500.


Oh I agree, I'd like to have as many as possible bought as cheaply as possible. But if you're trading to get there you have to be careful about the psychological factors that can get you into trouble, and that means taking a break sometimes. 

I'm looking at the 200 day MA as support. Will it hold?

----------


## Dianne

> Stop losses save you if you know how to use them.  That's why I bite my lip every time I hear Dianne is making a trade.


LOL, you're not the only one.

----------


## Crashland

If you want to save yourself the psychological trauma, just buy and HODL. Unless you are the best of the best at trading (which you probably aren't even if you have had a good streak), you'll end up getting burnt in the long run if you keep moving things around.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

*BTC went down 3 more dollars!*

----------


## presence

Nasty price action this evening.

Bitcoin XT fork hit BBC news.

*166 BTC* at bitfinex after massive dumping

LTCBTC held true

PPCBTC and NMCBTC both tanked hard

DRKBTC went moon while DRKUSD still took losses.

----------


## amonasro

Well, my account took a hit. The good news is that this should result in some nice volatility going forward.

----------


## muh_roads

whaleclub ppl are saying alphapoint software on bitfinex glitched again and cleaned house on margin calls.

----------


## presence

Honeybadger Freeware sold capitulation 288 and is now holding BTC in despair at 269 since ma2 crossed under ma90.

Honeybadger Pro sold capitulation 284.9 and is now still in USD.
Mode is 2 "Capitulation" ; the last dragon was green dragon; its not a "typical" red dragon (yet)... but resistance is below ma150 in a state of capitulation... therefore begin 5 day panic hodl USD and make trade decisions as if it really is a red dragon; set mode 3 "Red Dragon".

----------


## presence

> whaleclub ppl are saying alphapoint software on bitfinex glitched again and cleaned house on margin calls.


oh happy 

I could see that.   I watched the whole thing on 1m charts.   It was absurd and it looked like the orderbooks weren't following the charts at all.

Most of the other exchanges held in the 220's through the whole finex event.

----------


## muh_roads

> Well, my account took a hit. The good news is that this should result in some nice volatility going forward.


We may be down but at least we aren't cleaned out on coins like so many others.  People that play leverage really like that ball torture.

----------


## muh_roads

> oh happy 
> 
> I could see that.   I watched the whole thing on 1m charts.   It was absurd and it looked like the orderbooks weren't following the charts at all.
> 
> Most of the other exchanges held in the 220's through the whole finex event.


That looks like a double-bottom on the 1w

----------


## amonasro

> We may be down but at least we aren't cleaned out on coins like so many others.  People that play leverage really like that ball torture.


Admittedly I was leveraged and had to close a position at a loss. BFX's engine gets stupid slow when this happens as it simply cannot keep up with the cascading margin calls. 

Hopefully we double bottom out here in a similar pattern of the January crash.

----------


## presence

* Bitcoin could split in debate over currency's future*    18 August 2015From the section Technology


                                                               Bitcoin miners are in disagreement over which software to use                                      A row over changing the software that produces bitcoins could split the virtual currency, core developers say.
Bitcoin XT, a new version, is currently being recommended by the currency's chief scientist, Gavin Andresen.
And its developer, Mike Hearn, says its adoption essential to ensure the currency can cope with growing demand.
But  some, including a large number of bitcoin miners in China, are  resisting XT because of how it might affect control over the currency.
Bitcoin's blockchain - a digital ledger of all transactions made with the currency - is currently made up of 1MB blocks.
Bitcoin XT would enable these blocks to grow to 8MB.
But  this would mean XT was no longer compatible with existing Bitcoin  software, creating, its detractors say, two separate currencies and  eroding trust in both.
Mr Hearn told the BBC the Bitcoin  community's reaction to the release of the XT software at the weekend  had been mixed, but there were some encouraging signs.
                                                                                                    "We've gone from zero people running the software to 10% of the network in 72 hours, which is really good," he said
*Consensus on consensus*But  many are unhappy the core development team at Bitcoin is currently in  disagreement over whether Bitcoin XT is right for the future of the  currency. 
A pool of large Chinese mining groups, for example,  have said they will not adopt the software unless it is unanimously  adopted by the core team.
Mr Hearn said he had decided to force the issue in order to overcome the stalemate.
"If  you look at the guys working on the Bitcoin core, they talk about  consensus all the time - but if you ask them what they really mean, they  can't tell you," he said. 
"There is no consensus about what consensus means."
Mr  Hearn acknowledged, however, the reduced control developers had under  XT would mean they would have to split the currency a second time if  they were unhappy with future decisions.
"If we go off the rails  and do things that aren't in the best interests of the community, then  the solution is fork it again," he said.
Dr Vili Lehdonvirta, at  the Oxford Internet Institute, said the adoption of Bitcoin XT would  mean "the community has much fewer guarantees of being listened to".
"Those algorithms are made by humans and whoever writes them gets to have power over the system," he told the BBC.
Dr Lehdonvirta added increasing block size could potentially make Bitcoin less accessible.
"Downloading  the whole blockchain is already such an effort that most people choose  not to run Bitcoin on their computers," he said. 
"This would put Bitcoin on a trajectory where that problem is exaggerated."


*http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33974826*

----------


## muh_roads

Here is the thing about XT.  If this was 2012 it would've just been implemented with little fuss.  Just as how multi-sig was implemented easily.  Right now there are just too many stupid people panicking because nobody is explaining to them what happens to their coins.  The answer is everything will be fine.

If XT eventually does take over and mine a block bigger than 1MB, the fork happens but everyones money is still fine.  XT & Core share the same private and public keys.  If you send on an invalid chain, the other chain will still have your amount.

You just upgrade the wallet software.

This is really such a non-issue to me.  I've spoken with technical guys like Armory and they just have no concern.

----------


## muh_roads

> Admittedly I was leveraged and had to close a position at a loss. BFX's engine gets stupid slow when this happens as it simply cannot keep up with the cascading margin calls. 
> 
> Hopefully we double bottom out here in a similar pattern of the January crash.


$#@!, sorry to hear that.

somebody at bitfinex is getting fired for this I'm sure.  a guy named pgp from bitfinex is explaining $#@! on whaleclub.  if you got screwed because of glitching, u might get something refunded.  i came into the room too late to really understand what they're saying here.

----------


## Dianne

*DO NOT BELIEVE ONE WORD OUT OF PRESENCE MOUTH !*!!!   I warn you guys now, that he has already admitted he is a troll for paying clients.    PLEASE ...  disregard anything presence says.     Don't experience losses many of us have suffered.   Please spread it through btc-e as well.    I feel as though there is a rapist in my home, and it is presence.

Disregard and ignore anything presence aka litepresence has to say.     He will screw you in a heartbeat .... He will steal from you, your mamma, your children ... He is out for litepresence only.   A Troll.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Happy hour for coinage, glad I didn't buy silver with my wad the other day and saved it for good times up in here.

----------


## amonasro

> $#@!, sorry to hear that.
> 
> somebody at bitfinex is getting fired for this I'm sure.  a guy named pgp from bitfinex is explaining $#@! on whaleclub.  if you got screwed because of glitching, u might get something refunded.  i came into the room too late to really understand what they're saying here.


TBH I had a more difficult time closing my position during the LTC flash crash. Their engine is simply too slow and balances show up funky while it struggles to keep up with the volume--definitely some bugs in there. I managed to transfer all of my coins out and the system still showed me with a negative dollar balance. Crazy. I might try OKcoin as the have a more sophisticated stop orders (basically a trigger price for a limit order) and a neat iceberg TWAP system. Plus you don't have to keep so many coins on exchange to trade a large position.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

*IT'S BITCOINGEDDON!*

----------


## dannno

> *DO NOT BELIEVE ONE WORD OUT OF PRESENCE MOUTH !*!!!   I warn you guys now, that he has already admitted he is a troll for paying clients.    PLEASE ...  disregard anything presence says.     Don't experience losses many of us have suffered.   Please spread it through btc-e as well.    I feel as though there is a rapist in my home, and it is presence.
> 
> Disregard and ignore anything presence aka litepresence has to say.     He will screw you in a heartbeat .... He will steal from you, your mamma, your children ... He is out for litepresence only.   A Troll.


Didn't he just come on here the other day warning us in big scary letters about the fork, people complained that he was scare mongering then BBC published the story and it crashed?

I kinda wish I'd sold some of my coin, I could buy it back cheaper now.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

> Didn't he just come on here the other day warning us in big scary letters about the fork, people complained that he was scare mongering then BBC published the story and it crashed?
> 
> I kinda wish I'd sold some of my coin, I could buy it back cheaper now.

----------


## presence

*BUY

*




Honeybadger Marketplace master bought in overnight at finex:


*at 235.49 USD*



```
[2015-08-18 22:24:00] Snake Bite - Sleep 60 ticks - 252.17 3
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] 0 MOP BLOOD SHORT 251.27 (3)
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] Approaching Subclass 5.3
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] ~~~~~ Bloody Waterfalls ~~~~~
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] Consult Baron Rothschild
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] Trades: 12 Day: 6.3 Freq: 0.5 Price: 234.70
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] USD: 71.1 / 71.1 / 71.1 0.0 ROI
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] BTC: 0.3 / 0.0 / 0.3 14.7 ROI
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] ************************************************************
[2015-08-18 23:24:00]  BUY: 0.30184954 BTC (at 235.49 USD)
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "BUY OR CRY"
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] 
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] I appreciate your generosity:
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] BTC: 1Hixnhbeh6H2wyqWnSxfAxARMVu7tBEmME
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] 
[2015-08-18 23:24:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
```

My slave at btce picked up the signal at a slightly better price at btce just after midnight.    

*at 227.275 USD
*


```
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] green_dragon.: 0
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] red_dragon...: 0
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] overbought...: 0
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] last_dragon..: 0
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] mode.........: 3
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] subclass.....: 5.3
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] panic_sell...: 59
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] panic_buy....: 0
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] panic_blood..: 1
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] panic_mode...: 0
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] panic_think..: 12
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] Approaching Subclass 5.3
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] ~~~~~ Bloody Waterfalls ~~~~~
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] Consult Baron Rothschild
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] Trades: 6 Day: 5.6 Freq: 0.9 Price: 225.91
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] USD: 65.7 / 65.7 / 65.7 0.0 ROI
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] BTC: 0.3 / 0.0 / 0.3 15.1 ROI
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] ************************************************************
[2015-08-19 00:39:00]  BUY: 0.28922121 BTC (at 227.275 USD)
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "BUY OR CRY"
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] 
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] I appreciate your generosity:
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] BTC: 1Hixnhbeh6H2wyqWnSxfAxARMVu7tBEmME
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] 
[2015-08-19 00:39:00] Honey Badger Don`t Give a $#@!!
```




The signal appears good to go again.


I updated ROI Actual since LIVE; until I hear back from people I'm counting the trade at $231:


off the $279 Sell last week, that's a lot of subscribers with *20%* moar coinz short 

https://tradewave.net/strategy/BnplZAgHKS/editor



```
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] start date: 2014-12-10 05:00:00
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] start BTC value: 1.00
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] start USD value: 346.00
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] end BTC value: 1.97
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] end USD value: 489.59
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] trades 18
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] days 252.00
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] frequency 14.00 days/trade


[2015-08-18 13:00:00] ROI_assets 1.97X
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] ROI_currency 1.42X


[2015-08-18 13:00:00] ROI_BNH 0.72X
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] ELAPSED TIME: 7.2 sec
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] MAX DD......: -23.45 pct
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] MAX BNH DD..: -47.31 pct
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] >> [1.00 BTC]
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] >> [0.00000109 USD, 1.96639516 BTC]
[2015-08-18 13:00:00] >> Profit: 143.59306803 USD (estimated)
```









> *DO NOT BELIEVE ONE WORD OUT OF PRESENCE MOUTH !*!!!    I warn you guys now, that he has already admitted
> 
> 
> _he is a troll for  paying clients.   _ 
> 
> 
> PLEASE ...  disregard anything presence says.      Don't experience losses many of us have suffered.   Please spread it  through btc-e as well.    I feel as though there is a rapist in my home,  and it is presence.
> 
> Disregard and ignore anything presence aka litepresence has to say.      He will screw you in a heartbeat .... He will steal from you, 
> ...




*$225 BTCe / $232.5 Finex Last*





*Since 12/10/14: 
ROI assets 1.97X 
ROI currency 1.42X*


Past two trades represent 20% cash gain, then 20% coin gain back to back.


_
Dat's nastier than your  mamma_

----------


## fatjohn

Hey pres to me ltc/btc is looking really week right now. Whats your call?

----------


## presence

> Hey pres to me ltc/btc is looking really week right now. Whats your call?


12h is a tight consolidation.   Time to watch closely.   I'm holding some LTC at the moment. 

No call.

----------


## muh_roads

> off the $279 Sell last week


Thanks for bringing up old wounds and topping it off with a smile.

----------


## presence

> When a RPF member intentionally cheats,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *robs*
> 
> 
> 
> , misrepresents other RPF members,  for the benefit of his or her own greed; their despicable actions should not go rewarded







*Robbery | Definition of robbery by Merriam-Webster*


www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/*robbery* CachedFull Definition of *ROBBERY*: the act or practice of robbing; specifically: larceny from the person or presence of another by violence or threat




_violence and threats oh my_

----------


## muh_roads

> Didn't he just come on here the other day warning us in big scary letters about the fork, people complained that he was scare mongering then BBC published the story and it crashed?
> 
> I kinda wish I'd sold some of my coin, I could buy it back cheaper now.


While XT panic may have played a part, yesterday was mostly because of a bitfinex glitch.  The other exchanges started following until they decided not to.

----------


## fatjohn

> 12h is a tight consolidation.   Time to watch closely.   I'm holding some LTC at the moment. 
> 
> No call.


There's one guy or a group that continuously has about 6000-7000 ltc's on BTC-e at 0.01515-0.0152. This is right below where the trendline is. It was the same guy or group that pushed the price through the trendline back to 0.01499. Whoever he is it looks to me that he tries to crash LTC.

----------


## amonasro

> While XT panic may have played a part, yesterday was mostly because of a bitfinex glitch.  The other exchanges started following until they decided not to.


Yeah there was a removal of support walls followed by a big $3 million short... when he covers...

edit: according to bitfinex data, it looks like he covered into the margin cascade. Same person/group controlling those walls has built a huge position and just made a boatload of USD.

----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah there was a removal of support walls followed by a big $3 million short... when he covers...
> 
> edit: according to bitfinex data, it looks like he covered into the margin cascade. Same person/group controlling those walls has built a huge position and just made a boatload of USD.


Whoever that is will probably use it to pump again sometime.

Here is bitfinex explaining stuff yesterday...
https://soundcloud.com/whaleclub-bit...15-flash-crash

----------


## presence

//

----------


## presence

Honeybadger Pro 

*SOLD 226.75*

subclass 5.3 and 5.4 are red dragon unlimited subclasses that  typically follow each other in rapid succession.  They're a "checkpoint"  trade pair that attempts to snag a short bottom amid a greater volatile  decent.   The buy element missed the money mark for a bear market  currency gain; nonetheless we continue downward on a small loss of  shares holding fiat.

----------


## Okie RP fan

I've lost quite a bit since I bought last month. 
Expected, but, this is quite a turn so quick I've been reading around and it has a lot of people freaked out right now about how quickly the drop has gone on.

----------


## amonasro

*Yesterday:
*Fast and panicky selloff on high volume, indicative of a selling climax
Bitfinex sprung just below January's low of $166 ($162) on the margin cascade and swiftly recovered
Bitstamp made a long-term higher low @ $221
Futures made a long-term higher low

*Today:*
Futures market successfully retested the lows on lower volume
Bitstamp made a slightly higher low ($222) on medium volume
Action today is trading near the lows but volume and volatility are starting to dry up, indicating that most of the supply at this level has been absorbed without falling to new lows (this will enhance the effectiveness of buying that comes through)

Overall this is somewhat bullish but it's clear that some holders are being led to panic sell over the XT drama judging from the volume today on Bitstamp. I'm out of position until there is a clearer view of what's going on and to see how much selling is waiting to reveal itself. If we retest near the lows again tomorrow and it holds, I might consider going in long with part of my capital. Part of me believes the XT drama will simply blow over and the miners will refuse to adopt it amid the uncertainty. Gavin and Mike will have egg on their face and learned an important lesson not to wield their power to shoehorn things into the protocol and making the issue much more black and white than it needs to be.

Also I grabbed a few more coins around $225 for good measure

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

so when is it going to go back up to at least $260?

----------


## muh_roads

> *Yesterday:
> *Fast and panicky selloff on high volume, indicative of a selling climax
> Bitfinex sprung just below January's low of $166 ($162) on the margin cascade and swiftly recovered
> Bitstamp made a long-term higher low @ $221
> Futures made a long-term higher low
> 
> *Today:*
> Futures market successfully retested the lows on lower volume
> Bitstamp made a slightly higher low ($222) on medium volume
> ...


Thanks for that analysis.

Track this every day...Explanation in the top-right corner when you hover.

http://xtnodes.com/ 

I'm not sure what to make of XT.  Roger Ver and all the early adopting anti-gov/anti-war people like him seem on board.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> *Yesterday:
> *Fast and panicky selloff on high volume, indicative of a selling climax
> Bitfinex sprung just below January's low of $166 ($162) on the margin cascade and swiftly recovered
> Bitstamp made a long-term higher low @ $221
> Futures made a long-term higher low
> 
> *Today:*
> Futures market successfully retested the lows on lower volume
> Bitstamp made a slightly higher low ($222) on medium volume
> ...


I have to disagree that this is anywhere near climactic.  The selling was fast, but it was not a panic except on BFX, which was really just because of a technical glitch on that one exchange.  Bitstamp did not crash nearly as hard and the volume on both exchanges is dwarfed by the other most recent bitcoin crashes in comparison.  This is very bearish.  We could see a washout below $100 IMO.

This is why there's no reason to call this a higher low yet.  We've only just reached this level and an actual low hasn't been established, especially on the scale you're looking at to see it as a higher low.  For now, we're just consolidating very near the apparent interim bottom, which is actually quite bearish.

----------


## amonasro

> I have to disagree that this is anywhere near climactic.  The selling was fast, but it was not a panic except on BFX, which was really just because of a technical glitch on that one exchange.  Bitstamp did not crash nearly as hard and the volume on both exchanges is dwarfed by the other most recent bitcoin crashes in comparison.  This is very bearish.  We could see a washout below $100 IMO.
> 
> This is why there's no reason to call this a higher low yet.  We've only just reached this level and an actual low hasn't been established, especially on the scale you're looking at to see it as a higher low.  For now, we're just consolidating very near the apparent interim bottom, which is actually quite bearish.


I had considered the differences in exchanges. The bfx run did clean out a lot of longs--that was no glitch. All of those coins that were waiting to sell at higher prices are now liquidated, consolidated into fewer hands. This will reduce the sell pressure going forward. And if they want back in, they'll have to buy.

I think the price action was climactic (maybe on a smaller scale) in that the candle spread was very wide yet closed pretty far off the lows on the 3d chart. It also caused a lot of fear and panic selling. The fact that there wasn't high volume (relative to January) is actually bullish to me. It indicates that there's not enough supply floating around to push lower. A washout below $100 would take big volume, and the lack of it on a retest of $220 with less volume (and on a higher low) is bullish. 

Take for instance the price action on Stamp: Double bottom with contracting volume on the secondary test, then the price jumps immediately into an upward consolidation. To some it's a bear flag but to me I see a market stripped of selling with some decent demand. Now it's simply knocking on upward resistance with a few brave bears shorting and some laggards cashing out, waiting for a bit of demand to push it above. 

In a market that has seen so much overhanging supply absorbed after a 7 month accumulation range and where many of the most tenacious holders and longs were just shaken out, I'm seeing the strength with the bulls simply because the bears have all gone home. If we close significantly above the lows on the weekly chart (candle set to paint on Sunday) I will be even more bullish and may label this as a shakeout before the rally out of the range--a classic bear trap--but we'll wait and see

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I had considered the differences in exchanges. The bfx run did clean out a lot of longs--that was no glitch. All of those coins that were waiting to sell at higher prices are now liquidated, consolidated into fewer hands. This will reduce the sell pressure going forward. And if they want back in, they'll have to buy.
> 
> I think the price action was climactic (maybe on a smaller scale) in that the candle spread was very wide yet closed pretty far off the lows on the 3d chart. It also caused a lot of fear and panic selling. The fact that there wasn't high volume (relative to January) is actually bullish to me. It indicates that there's not enough supply floating around to push lower. A washout below $100 would take big volume, and the lack of it on a retest of $220 with less volume (and on a higher low) is bullish. 
> 
> Take for instance the price action on Stamp: Double bottom with contracting volume on the secondary test, then the price jumps immediately into an upward consolidation. To some it's a bear flag but to me I see a market stripped of selling with some decent demand. Now it's simply knocking on upward resistance with a few brave bears shorting and some laggards cashing out, waiting for a bit of demand to push it above. 
> 
> In a market that has seen so much overhanging supply absorbed after a 7 month accumulation range and where many of the most tenacious holders and longs were just shaken out, I'm seeing the strength with the bulls simply because the bears have all gone home. If we close significantly above the lows on the weekly chart (candle set to paint on Sunday) I will be even more bullish and may label this as a shakeout before the rally out of the range--a classic bear trap--but we'll wait and see


Like I said, we've only just reached this level, so don't conflate your time scales.  This may be bullish on a very short term basis, but bears are still in control, and the lack of volume says nothing as there is no clear bottom yet and it has only been consolidating here for a few days.  We could be at the beginning of an accelerating downturn.  The lack of volume says either we are running out of sell volume or the sellers haven't really come in yet, and based on the preceding technicals, including the freshly broken uptrend and the overall sentiment, I believe this indicates that the sellers have yet to arrive en masse.  You know climactic selling when you see it, and this was not it.  There's no indication that this should reverse yet.

Also, I know the BFX crash wasn't actually a glitch, but it's really only because the servers had trouble filling orders quickly enough, which resulted in a ton of slippage.  In any case, we can see that Bitstamp stopped, quite appropriately, at the important $220 level.

----------


## amonasro

At any rate, I'm out of the market until the XT drama has blown over. My concern is if the debate drags on and miners begin selling...

Not really a huge reason to be overly bearish quite yet, just in case a solution is found, ie if the devs implement a very small block size solution without extra "features" like node IP blacklisting--yeah that's in XT (supposedly to protect from a DDOS attack, but it opens a door I don't like)--and everyone jumps on board quickly. Anything to remove uncertainty would bump demand at these low prices. If I were a dev I'd be working my butt off to get something on the table, because if we fall below $200 and can't get back above I fear that we'd see a much more bearish situation that might unravel very quickly.

----------


## muh_roads

> At any rate, I'm out of the market until the XT drama has blown over. My concern is if the debate drags on and miners begin selling...
> 
> Not really a huge reason to be overly bearish quite yet, just in case a solution is found, ie if the devs implement a very small block size solution without extra "features" like node IP blacklisting--yeah that's in XT (supposedly to protect from a DDOS attack, but it opens a door I don't like)--and everyone jumps on board quickly. Anything to remove uncertainty would bump demand at these low prices. If I were a dev I'd be working my butt off to get something on the table, because if we fall below $200 and can't get back above I fear that we'd see a much more bearish situation that might unravel very quickly.


I view it like this.  XT exists because Core doesn't take action and doesn't innovate on anything.  The 3 core devs hating on XT have vested interests in sidechains to solve their solutions for off-chain transactions.  I think sidechains are interesting but it is still theory and their implementation could be another year away yet.  Satoshi always said the blocksize would need to increase to keep up with payment networks like Visa.  Gavin says if the doubling path is too much, 8MB, then 16MB 2 years later, etc, it could be reduced with a simple softfork once XT finally wins out.

I feel like supporting XT because I prefer solutions.  Bitcoin has been fine under Gavin for a long time.  He implemented multi-sig.  He fixed the Feb 2013 fork mess.  I think we can trust him.  I don't think he would be on board if Mike Hearn had mischievous plans.  The Tor node thing can be disabled if you read the comment sections of the articles out there.  When it is on, I believe it only kicks in if the 125 max node connections get hammered.  People are saying it is temp code that was trying to stop Gavin from getting the exact same DDOS one time.

It's all just nerd $#@! drama IMO.  The XT nodes mine on the same block chain.  I'm positive this will all work itself out.  It will show the power of miner consensus in action.  Gavin carefully made XT so the transition would be as smooth as possible.  

I've seen way messier hard forks by less skilled people do it with $#@!coins and things resolve fine.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> At any rate, I'm out of the market until the XT drama has blown over. My concern is if the debate drags on and miners begin selling...
> 
> Not really a huge reason to be overly bearish quite yet, just in case a solution is found, ie if the devs implement a very small block size solution without extra "features" like node IP blacklisting--yeah that's in XT (supposedly to protect from a DDOS attack, but it opens a door I don't like)--and everyone jumps on board quickly. Anything to remove uncertainty would bump demand at these low prices. If I were a dev I'd be working my butt off to get something on the table, because if we fall below $200 and can't get back above I fear that we'd see a much more bearish situation that might unravel very quickly.


The fear is very real, and I think the fear you have is evidence that that's exactly what's going to happen.  

I just want to make sure nobody's smoking the hopium.  When the price crashes and then bumps up against support and crawls sideways, it's looking for an escape route down.  Something major has to happen for the bulls to take charge at that point.  Any technical analyst knows that this is not a bullish market, it's an accelerating bear market where crashes are followed by sideways consolidation near the lows.  Climaxes are characterized, not just by fast price action with volume, but by a clear change in direction, which we have most certainly not seen here.  Another thing is that climaxes really only occur on larger time frames.  The fall should be accompanied by a sense of impending doom in which a seemingly endless drop appears to be occurring.  

First, you said you thought the fast price action with high volume was bullish, then you decided that the *lack* of volume was also bullish, so I fear that you are under the influence of a bullish bias, the kind that comes right before the ACTUAL crash.  The price action we are seeing right now is just too obvious to miss, and it's anything but bullish.  

Be warned, fellow RPFers.

----------


## Dianne

I was thinking about buying silver coins with my bitcoin.   I think that might be a safer bet at this point.    I still can't reach anyone at AmagiMetals so not sure if they are even open anymore.     Know any other coin dealers who accept btc?

----------


## amonasro

> The fear is very real, and I think the fear you have is evidence that that's exactly what's going to happen.  
> 
> I just want to make sure nobody's smoking the hopium.  When the price crashes and then bumps up against support and crawls sideways, it's looking for an escape route down.  Something major has to happen for the bulls to take charge at that point.  Any technical analyst knows that this is not a bullish market, it's an accelerating bear market where crashes are followed by sideways consolidation near the lows.  Climaxes are characterized, not just by fast price action with volume, but by a clear change in direction, which we have most certainly not seen here.  Another thing is that climaxes really only occur on larger time frames.  The fall should be accompanied by a sense of impending doom in which a seemingly endless drop appears to be occurring.  
> 
> First, you said you thought the fast price action with high volume was bullish, then you decided that the *lack* of volume was also bullish, so I fear that you are under the influence of a bullish bias, the kind that comes right before the ACTUAL crash.  The price action we are seeing right now is just too obvious to miss, and it's anything but bullish.  
> 
> Be warned, fellow RPFers.


I'm not in a position nor do I recommend anyone to be. This could easily skid lower. But I wouldn't wait for $100 just yet. 

Analysis must be contextual. An existing trend sets up the supply and demand conditions for the next trend--they do not occur in a vacuum nor are they arbitrary in size and length. There cannot be unlimited ammunition (supply or  demand) to create and support a trend in either direction no matter what the indicators say or how scary or euphoric things seem. On the largest timescales, the quality of ownership of the floating supply available for sale will generally determine whether a market is poised to move up or down. (At market tops after a buying climax a vast number of weak hands hold most of it having bought at high prices. They are immediately under pressure to sell once the price begins falling. This creates a bear market. At market bottoms after a grueling downtrend and a selling climax it's the opposite--conditions are created for a bull market.) This has a trickle-down effect to smaller scales which should frame that anaylsis within the larger context, bringing us to this week's action.

After a a year long downtrend, a major selling climax and multiple failures to break $200, the market _was_ in a position to base and rally past $300. The ownership transfer of hundreds of thousands of coins over the course of 7 months had the effect of creating a shortage which amplified existing demand. This put the market in an oversold condition and in a position to easily move up. We've already seen evidence of this. Now we have the XT drama which is adding a lot of uncertainty but does not change the technical state of the market--it's still oversold. Until I see major volume coming in to suggest that very large interests are unloading, the market will continue to be in that oversold state where sellers are few and demand is amplified. Remember the only reason we are here is because someone risked a monster 10,000 coin short on Finex, possibly the same person or group that was absorbing thousands of coins at higher prices (they pulled their support walls minutes before the short). One must wonder what their ultimate motive is and what effect their past accumulation (and others') is having on the price today. 

Volume can be bearish or bullish in any quantity, it just depends on where and when it occurs (context) and how it affects the price bars--effort (volume) versus result (price) should ideally be in harmony. When they're not, someone is either buying or selling into that effort or lack of it, causing a temporary supply and demand imbalance: an overbought or oversold condition and a trading opportunity. 

Hopefully that explains why I am cautiously bullish.

----------


## muh_roads

Enjoyable watching you both debate.  Nice change of pace in here.

I think the limited  supply allure has to play a part in the psychology of the market.  Everyone has a price but some permabulls can afford any price.  We're at those levels I'd think would  get major support by the Branson/Silbert/Voorhees/Draper/Ver/Byrnes-types  of the world.

When we're talking about low volume, I wouldn't  look at usd data.  Bitfinex was able to spook the markets but for most  of the time China is where the volume is at.  OKCoin, Huobi, and  BTCChina volume dominates Bitstamp, Bitfinex, BTC-e by many times over.

No transaction fees on CNY, supposedly...

----------


## muh_roads

> I was thinking about buying silver coins with my bitcoin.   I think that might be a safer bet at this point.    I still can't reach anyone at AmagiMetals so not sure if they are even open anymore.     Know any other coin dealers who accept btc?


If you don't want usd maybe something like bitgold would be good for you to park in.  That way you can move back into BTC when you feel ready with zero weight and zero transportation effort.

https://www.bitgold.com/

I think they take US customers now.  Not sure if you can take delivery on their little gold cubes.  Other countries can.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not in a position nor do I recommend anyone to be. This could easily skid lower. But I wouldn't wait for $100 just yet. 
> 
> Analysis must be contextual. An existing trend sets up the supply and demand conditions for the next trend--they do not occur in a vacuum nor are they arbitrary in size and length. There cannot be unlimited ammunition (supply or  demand) to create and support a trend in either direction no matter what the indicators say or how scary or euphoric things seem. On the largest timescales, the quality of ownership of the floating supply available for sale will generally determine whether a market is poised to move up or down. (At market tops after a buying climax a vast number of weak hands hold most of it having bought at high prices. They are immediately under pressure to sell once the price begins falling. This creates a bear market. At market bottoms after a grueling downtrend and a selling climax it's the opposite--conditions are created for a bull market.) This has a trickle-down effect to smaller scales which should frame that anaylsis within the larger context, bringing us to this week's action.
> 
> After a a year long downtrend, a major selling climax and multiple failures to break $200, the market _was_ in a position to base and rally past $300. The ownership transfer of hundreds of thousands of coins over the course of 7 months had the effect of creating a shortage which amplified existing demand. This put the market in an oversold condition and in a position to easily move up. We've already seen evidence of this. Now we have the XT drama which is adding a lot of uncertainty but does not change the technical state of the market--it's still oversold. Until I see major volume coming in to suggest that very large interests are unloading, the market will continue to be in that oversold state where sellers are few and demand is amplified. Remember the only reason we are here is because someone risked a monster 10,000 coin short on Finex, possibly the same person or group that was absorbing thousands of coins at higher prices (they pulled their support walls minutes before the short). One must wonder what their ultimate motive is and what effect their past accumulation (and others') is having on the price today. 
> 
> Volume can be bearish or bullish in any quantity, it just depends on where and when it occurs (context) and how it affects the price bars--effort (volume) versus result (price) should ideally be in harmony. When they're not, someone is either buying or selling into that effort or lack of it, causing a temporary supply and demand imbalance: an overbought or oversold condition and a trading opportunity. 
> 
> Hopefully that explains why I am cautiously bullish.


I agree with everything you just said and I'm still bearish.  The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent, so the oversold condition is not enough to justify bullishness without some kind of capitulation.  We're in the middle of a legit bear flag, so this is no time to be bullish in my humble, totally unbiased and completely correct opinion.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Enjoyable watching you both debate.  Nice change of pace in here.
> 
> I think the limited  supply allure has to play a part in the psychology of the market.  Everyone has a price but some permabulls can afford any price.  We're at those levels I'd think would  get major support by the Branson/Silbert/Voorhees/Draper/Ver/Byrnes-types  of the world.
> 
> When we're talking about low volume, I wouldn't  look at usd data.  Bitfinex was able to spook the markets but for most  of the time China is where the volume is at.  OKCoin, Huobi, and  BTCChina volume dominates Bitstamp, Bitfinex, BTC-e by many times over.
> 
> No transaction fees on CNY, supposedly...


They also supposedly have fake volume, so I don't know if I would trust them, either.  

Another popular analyst you seem to be following, 4xForecaster, is bearish and he has a good track record of making the right calls.  His most recent idea suggests the market could panic all the way to $58.  Then it's buy time, for real this time.

Now that you mention China, though, Huobi just made a new low, which puts it on the wrong side of that support zone.

----------


## presence

Honeybadger is holding again as of midnight last night

master signal bitfinex

[2015-08-22 23:24:00] 1 CRYPTO LONG 229.32 (5.4)
[2015-08-22 23:24:00] Approaching Subclass 1
[2015-08-22 23:24:00] Default Class Crypto Long

[2015-08-22 23:24:00]  BUY: 0.29334687 BTC (at 232.39 USD)
[2015-08-22 23:24:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "BUY OR CRY"

slave btce
[2015-08-23 00:39:00]  BUY: 0.28142597 BTC (at 225.699 USD)
[2015-08-23 00:39:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "BUY OR CRY"



"crypto long" is the default condition.   If HB cannot come up with a good reason anywhere in its hundreds of lines of logic to short BTC it returns to holding.

----------


## muh_roads

> Another popular analyst you seem to be following, 4xForecaster, is bearish and he has a good track record of making the right calls.  His most recent idea suggests the market could panic all the way to $58.  Then it's buy time, for real this time.


I'm not sure what to make of 4x honestly.  I think he is better with FX.  When it comes to bitcoin he throws out so many targets so it looks like he is never wrong.  While the Greece pump was going on I specifically remember him constantly tweeting "Target Hit, 261, bears in control", "Target Hit, 261, bears in control".  Yet it kept rising and when it did he switched from his bitstamp to his bitfinex chart as if to claim all his upward targets were all hit.

That non-stop tweeting about his 261 target was really annoying to watch as things kept rising.  I think you yourself didn't get in until 299 or something around there?  Then you exited 310 and only mentioned the exit after it dumped.

I used to be a believer in the sub-100 as a quick flash.  I dunno what to think now.  Predictions are scattered to the four winds at these levels from all over.  I agree with amon in the sense that these uber low forecasts will take a lot of volume to drill through.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I'm not sure what to make of 4x honestly.  I think he is better with FX.  When it comes to bitcoin he throws out so many targets so it looks like he is never wrong.  While the Greece pump was going on I specifically remember him constantly tweeting "Target Hit, 261, bears in control", "Target Hit, 261, bears in control".  Yet it kept rising and when it did he switched from his bitstamp to his bitfinex chart as if to claim all his upward targets were all hit.
> 
> That non-stop tweeting about his 261 target was really annoying to watch as things kept rising.  I think you yourself didn't get in until 299 or something around there?  Then you exited 310 and only mentioned the exit after it dumped.
> 
> I used to be a believer in the sub-100 as a quick flash.  I dunno what to think now.  Predictions are scattered to the four winds at these levels from all over.  I agree with amon in the sense that these uber low forecasts will take a lot of volume to drill through.


I'm sorry to hear that.  As far as I can tell, your complaint against 4xForecaster seems to be that he's not precise enough in his predictions, even though they tend to get the general direction right.  Sorry, but from what I can tell, he seems to be one of the best on the market.  I don't trade often enough for his imprecision to be a problem anyway.  Also, keep in mind that a target being hit doesn't mean he's expecting the market to reverse at that point.

You also threw in a quick jab at me for not telling you about my exit.  Sorry, but I don't get paid for this, so there's really no incentive for me to give regular updates.  I do this for myself now and come here when I feel like it.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I'm sorry to hear that.  As far as I can tell, your complaint against 4xForecaster seems to be that he's not precise enough in his predictions, even though they tend to get the general direction right.  Sorry, but from what I can tell, he seems to be one of the best on the market.  I don't trade often enough for his imprecision to be a problem anyway.  Also, keep in mind that a target being hit doesn't mean he's expecting the market to reverse at that point.
> 
> You also threw in a quick jab at me for not telling you about my exit.  Sorry, but I don't get paid for this, so there's really no incentive for me to give regular updates.  I do this for myself now and come here when I feel like it.


Just curious but how is life in China and your job there? Sounds fascinating plus your trading on the side.

----------


## muh_roads

> I'm sorry to hear that.  As far as I can tell, your complaint against 4xForecaster seems to be that he's not precise enough in his predictions, even though they tend to get the general direction right.  Sorry, but from what I can tell, he seems to be one of the best on the market.  I don't trade often enough for his imprecision to be a problem anyway.   Also, keep in mind that a target being hit doesn't mean he's expecting  the market to reverse at that point.


I can't knock his experience.  It just seems weird to make up new 5, 5', 5" with unknown geo that deviates from the elliot rules.  He might've explained that somewhere that I missed.  My bigger complaint is that he doesn't seem to factor in news.  The Greece PR effect just seemed absent in his thought process.




> You also threw in a quick jab at me for not telling you about my exit.  Sorry, but I don't get paid for this, so there's really no incentive for me to give regular updates.  I do this for myself now and come here when I feel like it.


Yeah that didn't mean to come out that way.  Getting away and trading less does sound more enjoyable.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Just curious but how is life in China and your job there? Sounds fascinating plus your trading on the side.


Yes, it's great.  I had meant to start a blog and possibly a vlog, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.  Things have been really exciting and I've been really busy, but I feel like I'm getting the hang of life out here, and I'm also thrilled that my trading has been going so well lately because it is supplementing my income rather nicely. I'm in a profitable short as we speak.  Perhaps soon I'll start a thread about it and try to get that blog running.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I can't knock his experience.  It just seems weird to make up new 5, 5', 5" with unknown geo that deviates from the elliot rules.  He might've explained that somewhere that I missed.  My bigger complaint is that he doesn't seem to factor in news.  The Greece PR effect just seemed absent in his thought process.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that didn't mean to come out that way.  Getting away and trading less does sound more enjoyable.


No sweat.  Trading is going really well for me because I learned how to be patient and wait for the big moves with well-defined stops and risk/reward ratios that help me to keep a cool head.  The plan for me right now is to short until we hit support somewhere in the mid $100s then possibly short again to 4xForecaster's target of $58.  If it gets to that level, then I'm definitely backing up the truck to go long.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

i bet everyone who bought at around 230 is regretting it now

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> i bet everyone who bought at around 230 is regretting it now


They were warned.

----------


## bullhammer

looks like my call for low 3s and high 2s turned out to be hit after all ,  should have stuck with my original plan,
went on holidays for a week and ..........

----------


## djthistle01

https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...19590350917632

astrology ftw.

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

I'm really thinking I should just spend my BTC before they are worth $10. I have less than $30 usd worth. I just use it as play money, but honestly this is silly :P

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I'm really thinking I should just spend my BTC before they are worth $10. I have less than $30 usd worth. I just use it as play money, but honestly this is silly :P



At these rates, I'd be concerned with having enough cash on the side to buy much more coinage than you already have. The sellers here are wanting to buy back in at lower rates since the market is talking lower prices and thus getting more coins for their stash. I'd keep your .1 or so and try to get a lot more imminently at these prices cuz this is a phenomenal opportunity if you know anything about Bitcoin. Your choice.

When fear is rampant, buy! When greed is rampant, sell! ~ Buffett

----------


## Dianne

It's taking a lot of self control not to buy LTC at the moment but I'm not feeling very comfortable about this market right now.

----------


## Crashland

I expect the market will sort itself out once the XT uncertainty gets settled. People are very concerned about the fork. Question is, will XT win and how much lower will the market go before it's resolved? IMO, XT is the right way to go, hope the miners agree.

----------


## presence

*Bitcoin XT: What Is It and Why Was It Released?*Bloomberg-Aug 19, 2015


The Hard Fork: Will _Bitcoin XT_ Take?
Nasdaq-Aug 24, 2015

_Bitcoin XT_ Blocks are Being Mined on the Network Right now
Inside Bitcoins Aug 22

Bitcoin Looking to Mature with _Bitcoin XT_
Finance Magnates Aug 24

Gavin Andresen speaks about the _Bitcoin XT_ fork
Examiner.com 18 hours ago

New Version of _Bitcoin_ Threatens to Split Cryptocurrency Loyalists
Reason Aug 23, 2015

Major Mining Pools Make a Stand Against _Bitcoin XT_ Fork
Bitcoin Magazine 18 minutes ago

Bitcoinist Weekly News Re-Hash: _Bitcoin XT_ Drama Continues
Inside Bitcoins 19 hours ago
_
Bitcoin XT_ debate overshadowing growth opportunities
PCWorld Aug 21

BitPay Supports Increase in Bitcoin Block Size Limit
newsBTC ‎Aug 23

----------


## bullhammer

> I expect the market will sort itself out once the XT uncertainty gets settled. People are very concerned about the fork. Question is, will XT win and how much lower will the market go before it's resolved? IMO, XT is the right way to go, hope the miners agree.


The thing is, the XT fork will make it almost impossible for the "little guy" to compute the larger blocks, thus the market will be more centralized, corporate takeover!

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

BIP100 is being discussed as an alternative to XT. It increases the block limit by miner vote (32mb max) starting in January 2016 and requires 90% consensus. A much, much better solution imo.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...ef_source=link

I started building a long position last night after watching the market drift up. Bullwhale got over 3000 coins filled from last of the panic sellers and aggressive bears taking out shorts--seems he is happy to average his way back up.

----------


## Crashland

> The thing is, the XT fork will make it almost impossible for the "little guy" to compute the larger blocks, thus the market will be more centralized, corporate takeover!


The little guy already can't mine much of anything. I don't think the current Bitcoin is any more impervious to that problem than XT is.

----------


## muh_roads

> BIP100 is being discussed as an alternative to XT. It increases the block limit by miner vote (32mb max) starting in January 2016 and requires 90% consensus. A much, much better solution imo.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...ef_source=link


25% of miners are publicly backing it which is way more support than XT that mostly consists of nodes.  Garzik has decided to start working on it now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3i9qdj/25_of_hashing_power_is_now_publicly_backing_bip100/

----------


## muh_roads

> The thing is, the XT fork will make it almost impossible for the "little guy" to compute the larger blocks, thus the market will be more centralized, corporate takeover!


A kid in Kenya hasn't needed to download the blockchain for a very long time to use his wallet.

The people who can afford the biggest shovels were always predicted to be the ones who can continue to mine.  Just like strip-mining entire areas for a few ounces of gold versus the California gold rush where you could trip over chunks.

21 inc and their partners might bring bitcoin back to its original vision of making the block reward feel more like a lottery by putting low power miner chips in most consumer devices for widespread decentralization.  Pools should always exist tho.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

LTC halving in about 20 mins.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Based on the price action right now, I would definitely classify this bitcoin bounce as a dead cat.  The price has to get in the 230s in order for any serious rally to occur, and it's had 2 failed attempts at this level so far.  I'm expecting more down, possibly a huge panic, which we haven't seen.  For those of you who remember what it was like watching the charts during the last major crash to $152 (Bitstamp), wait until something like that happens.  Right now is just a warm-up.  Price going down, volume going up, which is a sign that we could break through 200 soon.

----------


## djthistle01

> Based on the price action right now, I would definitely classify this bitcoin bounce as a dead cat.  The price has to get in the 230s in order for any serious rally to occur, and it's had 2 failed attempts at this level so far.  I'm expecting more down, possibly a huge panic, which we haven't seen.  For those of you who remember what it was like watching the charts during the last major crash to $152 (Bitstamp), wait until something like that happens.  Right now is just a warm-up.  Price going down, volume going up, which is a sign that we could break through 200 soon.


meh, I agree. there are too many bears though. until the bears get shaken out we gotta push up a little.

chart here:
https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...87077514440704

----------


## btcltc

Damn, are we going to zero now? NMC at 0,3. It cant stand to hit 1 dollar. Poor coin

----------


## djthistle01

> Damn, are we going to zero now? NMC at 0,3. It cant stand to hit 1 dollar. Poor coin


don't bother with that. BTC leads all. and if alts split off for a pump or dump ppc or ltc will lead.

btc is king, always watch it for the keys. 

topside targets are 240 and if it breaks 260, then moon.

if 240 fails then we go down to test last lows, after that 150ish, then if that breaks we flash to 60ish.

no doom until whaleclub esk traders are more bullish. they are too bearish thus market maker has to flush them out or margin call them.

----------


## bullhammer

> A kid in Kenya hasn't needed to download the blockchain for a very long time to use his wallet.
> 
> The people who can afford the biggest shovels were always predicted to be the ones who can continue to mine.  Just like strip-mining entire areas for a few ounces of gold versus the California gold rush where you could trip over chunks.
> 
> 21 inc and their partners might bring bitcoin back to its original vision of making the block reward feel more like a lottery by putting low power miner chips in most consumer devices for widespread decentralization.  Pools should always exist tho.


yes yes you are right......
its amazing the parallels of bitcoin,litecoin/ gold,silver

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## Dianne

LTC appears to be on life support.

----------


## djthistle01

http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...c-sept-1-2015/
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...c-sept-1-2015/
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...s-aug-31-2015/

BTC, LTC, and a group plug. Charts & articles in links.

----------


## Dianne

> http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...c-sept-1-2015/
> http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...c-sept-1-2015/
> http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...s-aug-31-2015/
> 
> BTC, LTC, and a group plug. Charts & articles in links.


Thanks for posting those links.  I'm not sure if I should be, but I'm still sitting in fiat.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Interesting, litecoin went up like .40 today.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I'm still shorting.  I'm a little bit in the red right now, but not worried yet.

----------


## bullhammer

> I'm still shorting.  I'm a little bit in the red right now, but not worried yet.


stop worrying and join the "long" side!!!

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> stop worrying and join the "long" side!!!


I'm not worrying.

----------


## bullhammer

> I'm not worrying.



ok, so are you on the LONG side yet?

----------


## amonasro

Still long from $226. Market is in reaccumulation right now; I can't see it coming down from here unless demand completely dries up over the next few days. In that case stops are set to keep a slight profit.

A horizontal point and figure count of the sidways area from 8/18 to 9/2 shows that enough force of accumulation has been built up to advance the price about $40, so $260-$270 is the next stop medium term. At that point the market should show us at least one tall green bar on the daily chart on good volume (a sign of strength) to confirm that the rally has gained enough of a following to push above the $26x resistance area.

----------


## djthistle01

BTC: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/09/1429/

Astrology:https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...72554301575168

LTC: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/LT...-Litecoin-LTC/ (remember ltc follows btc, generally, and ppc and nmc track with fellow altcoin LTC)

also BTC: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...0-Bitcoin-BTC/

ETH update: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/ET...hereum-ETHXBC/

http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...-july-20-2015/ : shameless plug

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ok, so are you on the LONG side yet?


Nope.  Just you watch.

----------


## bullhammer

> Nope.  Just you watch.


so are you thinking the btc and ltc market will crash coinciding along with the equity markets? (time frame = fed speak next week with the rate decision?)
I think it might be a good short opportunity with SPXU........

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Nope.  Just you watch.


230 -232 on the slope, good call.  This could be wreckage or ...

----------


## bullhammer

Hey LP! whats your take on the current market situation???

----------


## djthistle01

BLOOD MOON: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...C-Blood-Moons/
+
RETROGRADE: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...ry-Retrograde/
=
dip & up. been calling this fractal since last april. Blood moon always comes after a legit dip. can't fight fractals of life.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> BLOOD MOON: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...C-Blood-Moons/
> +
> RETROGRADE: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...ry-Retrograde/
> =
> dip & up. been calling this fractal since last april. Blood moon always comes after a legit dip. can't fight fractals of life.


The data shown is hardly conclusive.  Three retrogrades and like five blood moons don't really a consistent pattern make.

----------


## djthistle01

what? ok then.......i mean NO data is a perfect match, but come on. Clearly more often than not the retrograde cycle starts of with down side. and clearly the blood moon come after a good downside push. we have a retrograde going into a blood moon. aka, downside into pump.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> what? ok then.......i mean NO data is a perfect match, but come on. Clearly more often than not the retrograde cycle starts of with down side. and clearly the blood moon come after a good downside push. we have a retrograde going into a blood moon. aka, downside into pump.


You're seeing something I'm not.

The five retrograde examples you posted don't always start with downside.  And 5 is a lousy sample size to begin with.

----------


## djthistle01

> You're seeing something I'm not.
> 
> The five retrograde examples you posted don't always start with downside.  And 5 is a lousy sample size to begin with.


for sure it is a bad sample size. but perhaps you can see what i am talking about now: https://twitter.com/DJThistle01/stat...94769322422272

just like the RSI everything is in relation to the general size of the moving going on, but to me it is pretty obvious. and the 5th and 9th were the last "good" astrological days going into this series of events: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...s-sept-4-2015/ , so to me it seemed clear that after squeezing out all those shorts on the way to 250ish that this slide down was set in stone.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

http://chopcoin.io/

Blah, to much investing talk, earn yo bitcorns by eating the competition.

----------


## fatjohn

It's quiet here.

Chinese markets had a 6.5% spike though between the low and the high today. Looks bullish.

----------


## bullhammer

I noticed today as the S&P 500 dropped off pretty good.....LTC and BTC actually rose. This could be a indication that the cryptos will catch a bid if the markets crash hard soon, many are predicting an equity sell off in a big way , especially with the bear month of October almost on us!

----------


## bullhammer

> I noticed today as the S&P 500 dropped off pretty good.....LTC and BTC actually rose. This could be a indication that the cryptos will catch a bid if the markets crash hard soon, many are predicting an equity sell off in a big way , especially with the bear month of October almost on us!



not to mention silver caught a bid too, back above 15,

----------


## muh_roads

I think confidence is rolling back in.  Lots of happy people coming out of the ScalingBitcoin conference.  Not just about blocksize debate but all the upgrade ideas through Bitcoin Sidechains.

Confidential Transactions Sidechain is the most exciting.  The address and amount will both be kept private on the block chain and only visible to who you contract with.

One of the 5 people who Satoshi entrusted with the keys to bitcoin is working on it.  Here is the mp3...
http://www.bitcoin.kn/2015/09/dr-bac...-transactions/

----------


## presence

```
[2015-09-27 02:14:00] 4 HONEY 232.64 (3)
[2015-09-27 02:14:00] Approaching Subclass 4
[2015-09-27 02:14:00] Dragon Class Unlimited -  Red Dragon is ending, 
[2015-09-27 02:14:00] ((resistance or ma2) > (ma150 or ma90)) 
[2015-09-27 02:14:00] or ma150slope > 0
[2015-09-27 02:14:00]  Price: 233.50
[2015-09-27 02:14:00]  BUY: BTC (at 233.514 USD)
[2015-09-27 02:14:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "BUY OR CRY"
```

Honeybadger just bought back in today.  The current live version of the algo has been holding USD more or less since 8/2 ($280 ish);  its traded several times for small loss each since then and each time held BTC for very short periods.  Most of those buys were in periods of volatility.  This is a buy during consolidation under the "Honey" subclass; not an event within a red dragon; but signifying the end of a red dragon.   Holding BTC, stoploss is now down near $208.    


Lots of new upgrades since Z15; current version is Z21


calculates 50% faster backtestsI can now remotely stop, restart, and live upgrade client botsplotting in log scale on 12h candles when backtestingclient side firewall preventing trading more often than every 18 hours even if master signal is trading fasterhigh frequency filters to better refine exact trade times on finer resolution

----------


## djthistle01

> .   Holding BTC, stoploss is now down near $208.


you got balls of steel if you hold past 220 LP. Or Bat$#@! crazy. Eitherway there are some nice signals out there yes.

----------


## djthistle01

after getting the cold shoulder on the retrograde, blood moon, and astro post (which I know WOULD come true) I decided to wait to post since the resistance was noticeable. Well, the dump into retrograde happened, the market reversed near equinox, and then pumped into the blood moon. Every call here was bang on ---> http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...s-sept-4-2015/

Fact: China runs BTC
Fact: China believes in astology
Fact: Do as the market makers do or perish.

----------


## djthistle01

US Market tops & the Pope: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...-sept-27-2015/
How to spot reversal in CAD: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/0...all-cad-v-oil/

----------


## presence



----------


## djthistle01

*Alts:* 
http://coinfire.io/2015/10/04/federal-investigations-of-cryptsy-underway/ <--- Cryptsy is totally $#@!ed. i would expect to see jail time. expect altcoins to feel a bit of downward pressure for 24hrs as random people cashout & leave the exchange.



_ETH:_
last weeks ETH chart hit the marks perfectly (old: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/wp-con...TH-sept-30.png) (new: https://www.tradingview.com/x/oiYOPqzG/ ) a reversal at 26ish was rejected at 29ish. as you can see the price is butted up against resistance. prefect time to see which way the market breaks to take a position.

OLD



NEW






_
BTC:_ 
there are some good and bad things happening with btc price. i agree with LP above in that the bots holding should see more up. my concern is that the 1w chart may be consolidating like the 1D has been, there for the chance to see it dip down $10 before going up $30 is in the cards. either way, we are ranging preyy hard right now. it is a good time to trade an alt with volume or hit up 1broker, simplefx, tradersway, etc and trade some stocks & forex while btc chills. 









_BTC:_
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/10/bitcoin-btc-oct-4-2015/

*BABA:* 
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/10/alibaba-baba-oct-2-2015/
_
GPRO:_ 
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/10/go-pro-gpro-oct-2-2015/

----------


## presence

1 year ago today




> *The Slaying of BearWhale*                                       A Hallowed Day - On October 6, 2014, one of the grandest and most brutal struggles  ever to grace the tapestry of international crypto-finance occurred.  The day before, after several weeks of sinking prices had capitulated in  a bear assault, the enemy's most formidable foe emerged. It was a beast  rumored to exist, but never seen in its natural, grotesque form. The  BearWhale, a mighty creature with a 30,000 BTC ask wall (roughly $10  million), stormed out onto the battlefield. Bulls small and large were  crushed under its immense weight. The very Spirit of Bitcoin could be  felt buckling beneath the pressure of this immense market soul-crusher. 
> But  Bitcoin was not broken that day. A grueling struggle ensued, and over  the course of several hours, the entire BearWhale ask wall was  demolished, satoshi by satoshi. The vigilant light of a future without  fiat inspired the bull soldiers to conquer this foe, or die trying.
> 
>                                By the early morning, Eastern Standard Time, the BearWhale had been defeated; his ask wall consumed.  In its wake, the bodies of fallen comrades littered the landscape,  speculation on the source and purpose of BearWhale consumed the  narrative, and exchange owners around the world went out for champagne  after collecting 0.2% of the bloodshed.
>                   To commemorate this exalted day, ShapeShift.io commissioned two leading community artists to render their impression of The Slaying of BearWhale.
>                   Please take a moment of contemplative silence, and  enjoy the artwork. Hang it on your walls (or desktops). Tell your  children, and grandchildren. And never forget the sacrifice so many made  on Oct. 6, 2014.
>                   The journey to the moon continues.
> 
> 
> ...



https://shapeshift.io/bearwhale.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...l_order_being/

----------


## muh_roads

Something is brewing.  Check out the OKCoin volumizer on cny market.   That is impressive.  They are manipulating the OBV indicator like mad.

Bearwhale anniversary indeed...

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

http://coinfire.io/2015/10/04/federa...ptsy-underway/




> *Federal Investigations of Cryptsy Underway*
> 
>  October 4, 2015 By Marcus Gold 14 Comments 
> 427
> SHARES
> FacebookTwitter
> 
>    Coin Fire is now able to report that multiple federal investigations are underway regarding Crypsty.
>  The online exchange is under several investigations with multiple  agencies including the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Internal  Revenue Service, and the Criminal Investigation Division of the Internal  Revenue Service, among others.
> ...



http://coinfire.io/2015/10/04/federa...ptsy-underway/

----------


## presence

Honey Badger is continuing to hold on under subclass 4, Honey: "End of The Red Dragon" 

[2015-10-07 12:00:00] ma2 243.6322
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] ma30 234.9668
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] ma60 233.5268
*[2015-10-07 12:00:00] ma90 230.4849
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] ma150 244.3031*
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] maslope2 1.6723
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] maslope30 0.5541
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] maslope60 0.1322
*[2015-10-07 12:00:00] maslope90 0.2164
[2015-10-07 12:00:00] maslope150 -0.2197*


Given the current orientation of the Honey Badger lines; BTCUSD is approaching a green dragon cross about 2 weeks out horizon we should see 

ma2 > ma30 > ma60 > ma90 > ma150

the ma90/ma150 gap is closing at 0.4361 every 12h; they're $13.8182 apart














> Triple bottom is a bullish pattern with a WV shape. 
> 
> Three bottoms will  succeed, reflecting an important support. 
> 
> _This will mark a reversal._


http://education.howthemarketworks.c...triple-bottom/





> The more the three bottoms are close, more of the percentage of success of the pattern will be high. The more movements between the neckline and support are straight, the more the pattern is efficient.
>  The more the bearish movement that precedes the formation of the  triple bottom is  big, the more the upward movement at the breakout of  the neckline will be strong.
>  The pattern will be more efficient if the third bottom is not deeper than the two others.

----------


## djthistle01

I read that Cryptsy is suing Coinfire now.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## FSP-Rebel

Bitcoin Prediction: June 2016 will begin the next big bubble. Massive profits await bitcoiners.



~8mins

Watch and provide feedback.

----------


## presence

> Watch and provide feedback.


I agree.  Halvening is huge.   Its coming mid 2016, and like the man said... lessons have already been learned so the bubble will likely start early.  


http://www.goldonomic.com/definitions.htm

----------


## presence

> Given the current orientation of the Honey Badger lines; BTCUSD is  approaching a green dragon cross about 2 weeks out horizon we should see  
> 
> ma2 > ma30 > ma60 > ma90 > ma150


the same is true for LTCUSD


This is Honeybager Pro vs LTCUSD

it is currently HOLDING LTC vs USD

The algo is profitable in both BTC sense and USD sense vs btcusd.
It is MORE profitable in LTC and USD sense vs ltcusd for May 1 2015 to current; HB did gain 2x shares during may 2014 to may 2015 but overall took heavy losses in USD sense during the long bear slide.

[2015-10-12 08:00:00] KEYS..........: 0 0 0.0 0.5 4 3 0 347.0 0 0 12.0

The Honey Badger long cycle is (almost) always green, capitulate, red, bounce; repeat... albiet with some noise.

most simplistically, ma2>ma30>ma60>ma90>ma150 is a green dragon; the exact opposite is red.  

We're currently playing by "mode 4" rules; bounce; we're at first buy in after a red dragon; I call that trade "HONEY" and I hold it for weeks...  

After a honey buy the algo institutes a statitically tuned "panic hold" for +/- 3 weeks; the only reason it sells is stop loss if the chart mode turns "red dragon" again.   All other "mode 4" subclass trades are temporarily suspended until the bounce has a chance to bounce.     

The panic hold will continue 320 more hours; about 2 more weeks.


[2015-10-12 08:00:00] INDICATORS....:
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] close..: 3.11954
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] ma2....: 3.1074 24h slope 0.0472
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] ma30...: 3.0106 24h slope 0.0175
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] ma60...: 2.9217 24h slope 0.0065
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] ma90...: 2.8956 24h slope 0.0045
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] ma150..: 3.2628 24h slope -0.0232
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] resist1: 2.9899 resist2 2.7205
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] top....: 3.0668 bottom 2.1864


close > ma2 > ma30 > ma60 > ma90

if ma90 crosses above ma150 this becomes a "green dragon"; "mode 1"; the honey panic hold is over, but the algo becomes more bullish and plays by a new set of rules allowing for more sustained growth than it would trade the end of a bear "bounce". 

ma90 is currently less than ma150 by 0.3672

ma90 is just barely rising and ma150 is falling

they're converging at 0.0277 every 24 hours;

0.3772/.0277 = 13.6 days

ma150 needn't have positive slope for a green dragon call. 


so... what I'm saying here... 

Honeybadger likely will not sell LTCUSD for the next 2 weeks because its panic holding a cat bounce.

Just before that 2 week window; possibly faster due to acceleration; line concavity; we're projecting towards a green dragon cross. 

A green dragon cross tends to yeild a double your money in 30 days situation in LTC.   

[2015-10-12 08:00:00] PERFORMANCE...:
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Version.......: Z21
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Start Date....: 2015-05-01 04:00:00
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Start Assets..: 6932.41 LTC
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] End Assets....: 9309.29 LTC
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Buy-n-Hold....: 21541.87
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] B-n-H Gain....: x2.15
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Crypto Gain...: x1.34
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Cash Gain.....: x2.89
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Days..........: 164.0
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Trades........: 17
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Ticks.........: 3944
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Days/Trades...: 9.65
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Trade Types...: 11
[2015-10-12 08:00:00] Trade Type Counter({1.1: 4, 1.5: 2, 2: 2, 4: 2, 1: 1, 3: 1, 5: 1, 2.2: 1, 5.4: 1, 5.3: 1, 2.1: 1})



BTCUSD is HONEY; consolidating and trending towards green dragon
LTCUSD is HONEY; consolidating and trending towards green dragon

BTCUSD 12h 30>60>90
LTCUSD 12h 30>60>90
LTCBTC 12h 30>60>90
*



I'm all in LTC @ 0127*

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

very strong buy on 30+ day perspective

*
BTCUSD*


2015 12h obv is off the charts across exchanges

----------


## presence



----------


## bullhammer

> 


 great 





to see you posting again LP, for the record, I'm all in LTC for the long haul.......I've always said we are at the bottom of a large cup and handle. My cup runneth over!

----------


## presence

> great to see you posting again LP


As my front yard turns to tundra for the season I will become more active again in the markets... still fall, much to do before the freeze

----------


## amonasro

Unloaded my long position last night and this morning as there is evidence of a temporary top forming and a buying climax: 2/4/6hr RSI beginning to diverge, daily candles beginning to shorten and overlap on high volume. Lots of distribution happening in the futures market--they like to whoop up the prices to trap the breakout traders in bad long positions, then unload. Generally the price will blast up to new highs, meet heavy supply and fall quickly back into the trading range with volume. Wyckoff called these distribution upthrusts. They're the opposite of downside stop running (another activity they enjoy). 

Look at the 1h charts and you'll see a crowning formation with multiple tops--this is classic distribution as prices are kept high, exhausting demand to allow disposing of longs and filling of shorts. The excess supply from this distribution will need to be reabsorbed before resuming trend. This will give us lower highs and lows until it is, putting everyone who went long near the top under immediate pressure (weak hands, especially since weekly futures settle tonight). Good news is, the 2 month accumulation zone seen from 8/18-9/23 still puts us on track for $300.

edit: seems I was a bit premature on this one

----------


## bullhammer

> As my front yard turns to tundra for the season I will become more active again in the markets... still fall, much to do before the freeze



buying going on in BTC market........wonder if LTC will slingshot up the rear and rocket higher!

----------


## kfarnan

> Bitcoin Prediction: June 2016 will begin the next big bubble. Massive profits await bitcoiners.
> 
> 
> 
> ~8mins
> 
> Watch and provide feedback.




How did the mt. Gox bot influence as well.?  Does it really matter at all if it was artificially manipulated or not?

----------


## bullhammer

> How did the mt. Gox bot influence as well.?  Does it really matter at all if it was artificially manipulated or not?



sounds like a "buy the rumour, sell the news" situation if it happens. Its all opinion and only the market knows.......and God of coarse!

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Such moon, Illuminati will fall. Bear Whale is risen anew as Bull Whale,  So it's written in the Satoshi scrolls. Nom, Nom, Nom. Rockets and Rocket Fuel is cheaper now with commodity prices so low, more rocket launches eminent. Buy now or be square. All the cool kids are doing, or are you a lizard person? Bitcoin will free the world. When it's time to sell, you won't have to!

----------


## djthistle01

_Boom Shakalaka!!!


"Last week’s candle closed with a reversal signal. Historically this type  of signal has resulted in a move up…..buuuut, ya we all hate hearing  that. But there is little evidence to believe that a move upwards would  be more than $20-40." <--- oct 4th
_

----------


## djthistle01

I do agree with LP that a triple bottom pattern is more likely than not for the time being. Unlike LP I am not bullish on LTC...yet... and have passed on any buy signals to members. 

here is my triple bottom article from a week ago.
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/1...c-oct-11-2015/

17-19th was a bearish forecast and unless we dip enough then that bear cycle will go to the 24th. looking for a bounce near the 28th for halloween and again for the 4-5th of nov, which i think is the auction?

i believe we made the stopping point were the orange & yellow line break. BTFD and 2016 moon! though i do not think june is the start of the bubble. isn't halving july? maybe a high in june, not the start in june.

----------


## presence

*12h SMA 2>30>60>90>150

BTCCNY GREEN DRAGON CROSS HUOBI*



*BTCUSD GREEN DRAGON CROSS IMMINENT @ USD EXCHANGES*

----------


## presence

The June 21, 2015 Green Dragon began at $240 and peaked less than 30 days later on July 11th at $310 for a 30% gain.

----------


## kpitcher

BTC is up 10% in the past week. Minor bump with the hype of winkelvoss twins Gemini coming online or has wall street finally gotten into the game?

----------


## muh_roads

> BTC is up 10% in the past week. Minor bump with the hype of winkelvoss twins Gemini coming online or has wall street finally gotten into the game?


http://$#@!co.in/2015/10/19/china-unbans-bitcoin/

Whatever restrictions were placed on buying bitcoin in early 2014 by China might be getting reversed.

----------


## presence

12h sma 2>30>60>90>150; 30, 60, 90 all positive slope;   

GREEN DRAGON. 

All exchanges BTCUSD and BTCCNY 

Day 2

----------


## Crashland

BTC is up about 30% since last month's low, quite the run. Would be pretty significant if it breaks $315

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

So moon, much rich. Nom, Nom, Nom. Rocket launched. 10000 here we come!

----------


## presence

shown 12h sma 2 30 60 and 150 

red btce ltcusd
 green okcoin ltccny

a considerable disparity in valuation has opened in the past week

whether or not 12h sma 30 and 60 consolidate and cross bull (chinese rally) or bear (usd moving to btc market) here at 150 will determine fate for the next month

----------


## fatjohn

> shown 12h sma 2 30 60 and 150 
> 
> red btce ltcusd
>  green okcoin ltccny
> 
> a considerable disparity in valuation has opened in the past week
> 
> whether or not 12h sma 30 and 60 consolidate and cross bull (chinese rally) or bear (usd moving to btc market) here at 150 will determine fate for the next month


Thats true for BTC as well. btc-e + $20 = Bitfinex Bitstamp + $10 = Huobi Okcoin btcchina

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This uptrend is insane.  We've been climbing up steadily for over 42 days and still no sign of even a pullback.  I think it's about time.  As long as it stays above $250, though, this seems like a pretty bullish market.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> This uptrend is insane.  We've been climbing up steadily for over 42 days and still no sign of even a pullback.  I think it's about time.  As long as it stays above $250, though, this seems like a pretty bullish market.


Already explained it. It's because commodity prices are way down, and it's cheaper to build and fuel moon rockets. Sheesh getting tired of explaining this over and over.

----------


## chowdan

> Already explained it. It's because commodity prices are way down, and it's cheaper to build and fuel moon rockets. Sheesh getting tired of explaining this over and over.



Maybe you should stop explaining it? The poster was not asking for an explanation...

----------


## fatjohn

> So you don't expect a new low (below 2120 on Huobi)? 
> 
> I would expect the price to bottom between 375 and 100 on MtGox, based on other months long downtrends of the 2011 and april 2013 bubbles.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Ok, after this fairly inaccurate but still fairly correct call for new lows that I made at new years 2014 (BTC@800). I'm gonna try and make a more accurate one for the coming two years.
> 
> This year prices are going to be surprisingly stable for the entire year staying in the down trend and thus likely not make new highs for the year and move to a double bottom towards the end of the year (around november). Before the year is over prices will break the downtrend and perhaps move all the way to the 350 area over new years from then a new drawback will come but in general prices will keep a slow uptrend until 450. This is about where the real new bull will start which will take us at least over 5000 by april 2017. 
> ...


I am just quoting my previous predictions (first at the year change of 2013/2014, then start of june '15) here and make some adjustments.

I believe this is it. The double bottom I foresaw last june happened faster than expected and happened end august/september. I do not see a significant long term pull back happen after we reached 350. Perhaps a short term pull back to 310 but will not last longer than mere days. A large wave is coming faster than I anticipated (although I think I must've made a typo and meant april 20*16* above) I think we will see over 4000 by February.

Hold on, folks!

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> Maybe you should stop explaining it? The poster was not asking for an explanation...


U iz wise.

----------


## chowdan

> I am just quoting my previous predictions (first at the year change of 2013/2014, then start of june '15) here and make some adjustments.
> 
> I believe this is it. The double bottom I foresaw last june happened faster than expected and happened end august/september. I do not see a significant long term pull back happen after we reached 350. Perhaps a short term pull back to 310 but will not last longer than mere days. A large wave is coming faster than I anticipated (although I think I must've made a typo and meant april 20*16* above) I think we will see over 4000 by February.
> 
> Hold on, folks!



I have been a long time hidden lurker on this thread. I do find it interesting to see how we can correlate some things to others and attribute others to some things. 

I'm not saying your wrong, and i am completely bullish as well. I am curious to hear your opinion on why we expect to see 350, or even 4k? What is the dynamic that will cause the price to blow up and hit the moon? Is it because we are encountering a halving? Or are we setup for some other type of financial movement from fiat to BTC? 

I guess the other question is, what is causing the demand in price right now?

----------


## stuntman stoll

> I have been a long time hidden lurker on this thread. I do find it interesting to see how we can correlate some things to others and attribute others to some things. 
> 
> I'm not saying your wrong, and i am completely bullish as well. I am curious to hear your opinion on why we expect to see 350, or even 4k? What is the dynamic that will cause the price to blow up and hit the moon? Is it because we are encountering a halving? Or are we setup for some other type of financial movement from fiat to BTC? 
> 
> I guess the other question is, what is causing the demand in price right now?


No one has the slightest clue how much bitcoin is worth.  I'm bullish being that I see it as the perfect currency.  However, the value is completely subjective and is determined by how may people use is as a money now, and by speculators speculating how many people will be using it as money in the future.  Also, no one has a clue how many people will be using it as money in the future.  It relies on the network effect, so it may never catch on with the general public if it doesn't reach a tipping point.  If it does hit a tipping point, its use will spread like wildfire.  
So I think bitcoin is worth either about $100 each or $50,000 each; I'm just not sure which one

----------


## presence

6h scale...

ltcbtc deeply depressed
ltcusd in very tight consolidation

huobi just peaked 2014 btccny; that's like $320

if ltccny holds over 20.20 for about 36 more hours we have a ltccny green dragon






the usd chart has negative slope on 12h ma30; it needs to hold over 3.04 




This is a very pivotal ltc consolidation.  it will break soon and hard.  The cny markets say we're breaking bull.  USD markets are more bearish.

----------


## Crashland

China has just been going bonkers this month, always leading the rallies. US markets are just along for the ride lol

----------


## fatjohn

I have a request for the forum members. Does anyone know of a service that will send warning emails if bitcoin reaches certain price points?

@chowdan I am very busy, will reply more extensive later. But the main reasoning behind it are. 1) depressed price, 2) good news out of china and EU 3) increased news coverage 4) most importantly, the price action and my belief that whales are using these earlier points to paint the graphs into a new wave. This early weeks look very similar to the early weeks of the april 2013 bubble.

----------


## presence

> I have a request for the forum members. Does anyone know of a service that will send warning emails if bitcoin reaches certain price points?


You can do this with tradewave with a basic subscription.   You can also get emails for indicator crosses as well.

----------


## kfarnan

> You can do this with tradewave with a basic subscription.   You can also get emails for indicator crosses as well.


Coinsetter will send alerts to any device.  Although, not sure how reliable.

----------


## presence

100,000k LTC sell wall at huobi is about to bust at 20.3

okcoin already at 20.4




this could be THE ltc move.

----------


## presence

boom

----------


## presence

dat volume

----------


## Barrex

> dat volume


One or few accounts made huge transaction or there are a lot of different accounts doing it?

----------


## presence

ltcusd up 10% in 10 minutes

----------


## presence

> One or few accounts made huge transaction or there are a lot of different accounts doing it?


There was one huge order at huobi; about 100k LTC that had been sitting there for days.   About an hour ago it started getting tapped on piecemeal.  When it was half gone... okcoin broke out and btce followed.   Then the wall was gone and moon.

----------


## presence

booom again.


someone just racked the book at huobi.

its wide open with minimal left for sale.  



less than an hour ago huobi books had 400k of sell pressure.

----------


## presence

*LTCCNY GREEN DRAGON 
out of 12h consolidation.
The sky is the limit.* 


LTCUSD 3.5000 last

----------


## presence

> if ltccny holds over 20.20 for about 36 more hours we have a ltccny green dragon
> []
> This is a very pivotal ltc consolidation.  it will break soon and hard.




that was about 20 hours ago

----------


## presence



----------


## bullhammer

finally the breakout I was waiting for! was watching BTC last few days and tempted to switch but held my LTC and BOOM!

----------


## bullhammer

> I have a request for the forum members. Does anyone know of a service that will send warning emails if bitcoin reaches certain price points?
> 
> @chowdan I am very busy, will reply more extensive later. But the main reasoning behind it are. 1) depressed price, 2) good news out of china and EU 3) increased news coverage 4) most importantly, the price action and my belief that whales are using these earlier points to paint the graphs into a new wave. This early weeks look very similar to the early weeks of the april 2013 bubble.



there are scores of mobile apps that have price alerts!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Don't be that guy!

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## amonasro

Is this the rally? THE rally?

----------


## Crashland

It looks like it wants to go parabolic. Massive volatility coming
Bitfinex $319, Huobi $333

----------


## muh_roads

Bull flags all over.  The media is going to go nuts on this over the next few days.  You can clearly see bots attacking the ask side.  This is willy 2.0, I think we are out of consolidation.

I heard you guys like money?  

Horizontal resistance lines have all been blown through.   Former resistance has become support.  Next major resistance is 350, 370 & 450

Incredible.  Hopefully the middle bbands keep getting supported.  This pumping is insane.

----------


## muh_roads

> Is this the rally? THE rally?


Remember, remember, the moon in November.

----------


## muh_roads

> I have a request for the forum members. Does anyone know of a service that will send warning emails if bitcoin reaches certain price points?


It doesn't email, but I use Bitcoin Checker on Android.  Has alerts.  Supports all exchanges and $#@!coins.

----------


## presence

ltccny at 27
ltcusd at 3.8

----------


## kfarnan

delete

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## muh_roads

What's funny is people keep trying to short.  And they keep getting liquidated...lol

Rocket fuel as they get chewed up.

----------


## amonasro

The Wyckoff P&F horizontal count puts the ultimate target at $700-800. Seems crazy. But that's what 9 months of accumulation does... coils the market like a spring.

----------


## muh_roads

The books are so thin now that we blew past most resistance.  Nobody wants to sell because they won't be able to get back in without losing coins.

This is amazing.

----------


## muh_roads

FOMO YOLO




WE CAN'T STOP THE BUYING! lol

----------


## muh_roads

This could drop 100 yuan and it's still uptrend.

----------


## XTreat

I'm almost excited.

----------


## muh_roads

Nasdaq purchased GBTC

----------


## muh_roads

Blythe Masters says financial blockchains will be worth trillions.

Blockchain tokens!  Get your blockchain tokens!

----------


## muh_roads

Big red candles.  Grab on and BTFD

Be careful, it can dump hard because there is nothing on the books.  Whipsaw chop-chop time.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Blythe Masters says financial blockchains will be worth trillions.
> 
> Blockchain tokens!  Get your blockchain tokens!


Buy the jv version if you can't afford the the golden ticket, cause the ticket can be bought more when litecoin makes its red carpet run and repatriated into bitcoin territory. 
And, thus fueling the bitcoin runup into outer space. Likely $$$$$ territory for starters/ and then more.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Are you $#@!ting me? China is $50 bucks over BTC-e at this point in btc price. Gonna get nasty soon.

----------


## muh_roads

3 hours until OKCoin settlement.  3am CST

----------


## muh_roads

Bouncing already.  That was fast.  And on a 1H shooting star, even.  Haven't seen a bounce like that before.

Don't $#@!ing short this or you could get rekt.

----------


## muh_roads

LTC is getting nuked.

----------


## amonasro

> LTC is getting nuked.


Bugged out on both my LTC and BTC long positions. Might get a reaction downward to test prior resistance as support. Healthy healthy.

----------


## muh_roads

Yep.  Doing a recharge here.  Lets see what happens.  Grown rather fond of watching bbands.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Ok, looks like we're finally getting a pullback.  I got stopped out twice trying to call this, but I think I got it this time.  Waiting for 270s to take profit and then going long.  Things could change, but that's the plan as it stands now.

----------


## nayjevin

I'm selling the hype and calling this a bubble, the amount it goes over 325 is the amount of insanity in the bitcoin community.

----------


## fatjohn

> I'm selling the hype and calling this a bubble, the amount it goes over 325 is the amount of insanity in the bitcoin community.


Not a bubble. Healthy correction was due. Got out at 324 see it falling further to 290.

Watch huobi. Downtrending resistance at 2160 now.

Edit: I hope it catches support at 290. Will get in there with a close stop loss. If support is given i can see it going to 500 next.

----------


## muh_roads

2132 yuan is support

currently looks a denied breakdown with a bull flag.

----------


## fatjohn

Yeah went back in. Have identified clear OKCoin Channel. Well yeah... clear... hindsight is 20/20 i guess.



Upper horizontal line is the fake out/blow off top of last july.
The lower horizontal line is the start of the downward cascade down last December.

These guys know how to paint.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> I'm selling the hype and calling this a bubble, the amount it goes over 325 is the amount of insanity in the bitcoin community.


HOW EDGY

GO BET ON THE MARKET TO BE RATIONAL AND TELL US HOW THAT GOES OR BETTER YET GO PERFORM PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITIES UPON THINE SELF

----------


## amonasro

The level headed analyst in me says sit it out and wait for the big correction.

The guy who watched the 2013 bull market says otherwise.

Thinking of going back in.

----------


## Crashland

A lot of short term traders got rekt in 2013 trying to call the highs and lows. Tread carefully. I prefer just being permabull.

----------


## dannno

> A lot of short term traders got rekt in 2013 trying to call the highs and lows. Tread carefully. I prefer just being permabull.


Ya I have the vast majority of my btc locked away in a few vaults - then I have a trading account that I use to try and get more coin.

----------


## XTreat

> Ya I have the vast majority of my btc locked away in a few vaults - then I have a trading account that I use to try and get more coin.


Yep, I trade with about 20% of my total coin.

----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn

For the record, I went out again at 2180. Too many little hops. Seems like a good choice. Let's see what happens at 2125 if it goes there.

Well, that was a sweet trade at 2125! 5 min later and over 2160.

----------


## presence

*365 day volume weighted average price*




```
import numpy as np
import talib as ta
import time as t

DEPTH = 365*86400/info.interval
PAIR = info.primary_pair

def initialize():
    storage.reset()
    log('storage.reset()')
    storage.start = storage.get('start', t.time())

def deep_candles(depth):
    
    storage.deep_c = storage.get('deep_c', [])
    storage.deep_v = storage.get('deep_v', [])
    
    if info.tick==0:
        for x in range(depth):
            n = depth - x 
            storage.deep_c.append(float(data[PAIR][-n].close))
    else:
        storage.deep_c.append(float(data[PAIR].close))
        
    if info.tick==0:
        for x in range(depth):
            n = depth - x 
            storage.deep_v.append(float(data[PAIR][-n].volume))
    else:
        storage.deep_v.append(float(data[PAIR].volume))        
    storage.deep_c=storage.deep_c[-depth:]
    storage.deep_v=storage.deep_v[-depth:]    
    return np.array(storage.deep_c) , np.array(storage.deep_v)
    
def tick():
    
    c,v = deep_candles(DEPTH)
    #plot('deep_c', c[-1])
    plot('deep_v', v[-1], secondary=True)

    z = sum(c*v)/sum(v[-len(v):])  

    plot('365vwap', z)
    
    if info.tick == (info.max_ticks-1):
        log('365 VWAP...: %.2f' % z)
        log('price......: %.2f' % c[-1])
    
def stop():
    
    log('elapsed....: %.1f sec' % (t.time()-storage.start))
```

----------


## presence

noteworthy, the 365 day vwap has positive slope for the first time since Nov 2014

----------


## Crashland

The 12-hr chart appears rally hasn't really missed a beat. If it really is a blow-off top forming, it doesn't seem to have hit that extreme overbought top yet.

----------


## presence

log scale view back to dawn of bitcoin on 365 day vwap.

it is currently crossed bull on price; and it is currently just barely positive slope for the first time since nov 2014

365vwap is 260.56 last

----------


## presence

mt gox and btce composite image



log scale view back to dawn of bitcoin on 365 day vwap.

it is currently crossed bull on price; and it is currently just barely positive slope for the first time since nov 2014

365vwap is 260.56 last

----------


## presence

This rise is VERY REAL.

major pivot points

365 day cross

90/150 12h cross




I'll put a bold prediction out there for 


*
$1500 / BTC Christmas*

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> This rise is VERY REAL.
> 
> major pivot points
> 
> 365 day cross
> 
> 90/150 12h cross
> 
> 
> ...


That is bold.  Do you think LTC will follow?  Are you putting money on LTC in anticipation of this?

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> The Wyckoff P&F horizontal count puts the ultimate target at $700-800. Seems crazy. But that's what 9 months of accumulation does... coils the market like a spring.


YES I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW MANY WHALES OUT THERE HAVE BEEN WAITING ALL THIS TIME FOR $300 COIN

----------


## fatjohn

> Yeah went back in. Have identified clear OKCoin Channel. Well yeah... clear... hindsight is 20/20 i guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Upper horizontal line is the fake out/blow off top of last july.
> The lower horizontal line is the start of the downward cascade down last December.
> 
> These guys know how to paint.


This channel is still very much in play after a magnificent check at 2125.
Current rising support at 2160, rising resistance at 2440. Lots of upside, small downside.
Sell at own risk!

----------


## amonasro

$1500 is bold indeed, but not out of the question if this keeps up and bulls take control. 

I'm taking a break for a few days to book profits, made bank in futures on this rise and don't want to lose it by overtrading. Earlier I bought some Xmas futures (yes they expire on 12/25) but panic sold them back while looking at the daily chart. I mean, it's ridiculous. Every time people start thinking that it's different this time, it usually isn't. But I'd love to be proven wrong. The way I see it's either going to come down hard or be the start of something big.

----------


## fatjohn

Anyone who thinks this is going to be a fakeout should take a minute on bitcoinwisdom scroll out back to fake march and june rallies and compare the volume.
Huobi, OKCoin and to a lesser extent Kraken and Bitstamp are all seeing significantly more volume during this run than during those fakes.

Now back to the short term. Rising support is now at 2173 on OKCoin. A test of 2192 has also occurred twice. The price might stabilize the coming hours just above this level and test them a bit. I'll stay bull as long as rising support is not broken. Rising resistance is at 2450, lots of upside to be had.

----------


## fatjohn

Ok it's game time, let's see if supports holds. Looking ok so far.

This might be a good moment to get in with a close stop loss.

----------


## fatjohn

There are things to like and things not to like about this test.
I don't like that the price actually breached the trendline with a couple of yuan.
I do like the volume though and the fact that it is now already trading at 2206.
Stay strong, stay long.

[/URL]

----------


## fatjohn

So there's a 25 dollar discrepancy between china and the US now. Really? Is there no arbitrage at all?

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

> Ok it's game time, let's see if supports holds. Looking ok so far.
> 
> This might be a good moment to get in with a close stop loss.


I personally would wait for the breakout to go long here. Although I am bullish, a "back up to the creek" may happen, bringing the market back to test the previous $280-310 resistance zone before resuming its journey upwards. No doubt the bears will pile in once they see major support (or what they think is) near $300 broken. This automatic reaction is healthy market structure and usually goes to the preliminary supply area, of which there are two in this rally, one at $295 and another at $275. The shallower this back up and the lower the relative volume, the more bullish. 

Here we go with another Wyckoff analogy, but they are so good... In his tape reading course he said that the market is like a sponge, and sellers are link ink dripping from an inkwell onto the sponge. At some point the sponge will become full and the ink will spill out onto the table. He's referring to the absorptive capabilities of the market, i.e. it's ability to withstand selling, especially after an uptrend where demand is reduced and lots of weak hands hold the stock (their tendency is to sell once prices begin to fall against them). This reaction wave of selling temporarily discourages new buying and shakes out a lot of top buyers with big losses. 

Zooming in to the 2h scale, if the market breaches the low of the automatic rally off the buying climax ($334-314) that is a sign of weakness that sellers are present en masse and may tip off the selling: the sponge becomes full of ink.

----------


## fatjohn

> I personally would wait for the breakout to go long here. Although I am bullish, a "back up to the creek" may happen, bringing the market back to test the previous $280-310 resistance zone before resuming its journey upwards. No doubt the bears will pile in once they see major support (or what they think is) near $300 broken. This automatic reaction is healthy market structure and usually goes to the preliminary supply area, of which there are two in this rally, one at $295 and another at $275. The shallower this back up and the lower the relative volume, the more bullish. 
> 
> Here we go with another Wyckoff analogy, but they are so good... In his tape reading course he said that the market is like a sponge, and sellers are link ink dripping from an inkwell onto the sponge. At some point the sponge will become full and the ink will spill out onto the table. He's referring to the absorptive capabilities of the market, i.e. it's ability to withstand selling, especially after an uptrend where demand is reduced and lots of weak hands hold the stock (their tendency is to sell once prices begin to fall against them). This reaction wave of selling temporarily discourages new buying and shakes out a lot of top buyers with big losses. 
> 
> Zooming in to the 2h scale, if the market breaches the low of the automatic rally off the buying climax ($334-314) that is a sign of weakness that sellers are present en masse and may tip off the selling: the sponge becomes full of ink.


Good analogy. FWIW I got stopped out since i was closing that trendline very closely. Volume is entirely gone from OKCoin. Huobi has a bit less action. While Bitstamp is still defending its version of the upward trendline. I don't think that one will hold so I'm also sitting idle now until a break forms.

So according to you, low volume is a good thing now?

----------


## amonasro

> Good analogy. FWIW I got stopped out since i was closing that trendline very closely. Volume is entirely gone from OKCoin. Huobi has a bit less action. While Bitstamp is still defending its version of the upward trendline. I don't think that one will hold so I'm also sitting idle now until a break forms.
> 
> So according to you, low volume is a good thing now?


Volume can be low or high depending on context. The market can rise or fall on high or low volume. I'm seeing high red volume come in now, the sellers have arrived. Lower green volume around those big red bars is bearish at the top of a large uptrend where the market is vulnerable to selling and low demand. Volume declined on OKC but is picking back up. 

I'm also hesitant to short in case it bounces strongly, but if the bounce is a lower high say, on the 2/4/6h chart with declining volume and narrowing candles (indicative of active selling over the market), that would be a good short entry if you wanted to play the downswing. Just put a stop a couple points above in case the bulls charge back. I'm guessing that Stamp will bounce back to resistance at ~315-320. OKC probably has a lot of leveraged longs holding on for dear life and the dip buyers are still active, so it will probably recover slightly. If the recovery is weak and fails to keep its head above water and make higher highs, this is bearish, meaning the market is having a tough time holding this price range with all the pent up selling energy being released, and that supply is overcoming demand.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> So there's a 25 dollar discrepancy between china and the US now. Really? Is there no arbitrage at all?


No, there's plenty of arbitrage.  That's what you call that discrepancy.

----------


## fatjohn

> No, there's plenty of arbitrage.  That's what you call that discrepancy.


I thought arbitrage is the act of taking advantage of the difference. 
Anyway aside from definitions, is no one selling on china and buying in the US and converting there yuan to dollars? I know there's a certain loss in this process but I would not assume that its 25 bucks.

Anyway, I'm still on the sidelines here. There's a wedge forming in my opinion, which is likely to break to the downside to perhaps test the 1950 level.



Looking for a hint of where the market will go by either breaking 2205 or 2145.

----------


## presence

> I thought arbitrage is the act of taking advantage of the difference.


I tend to use it that way.

Anyway... the issue is one of viscocity of money. 

It displays that fiat is more viscous than crypto.

the ltcbtc at both cny and usd exchanges is and has stayed at parity all week through this bull run.  So there ARE many people playing the ltcbtc arbitrage between the cny and usd exchanges. 

However, as noted, the btcusd has stayed 15%+ under btccny and ltcusd likewise under ltccny.

So the chinese are spending yaun on crypto.   That is a process that is "happening" like flowing water.

the ability and willingness to hold and move usd onto exchanges at the moment is simply not moving as fast.  

So theres "discrepency" and those few *willing and positioned* to play the arbitrage through fiat movement fx channels act as a pressure regulator between exchanges; its blowing off but only so much at a time.









> The viscosity of a financial transaction is related to the difficulty, the distance, the cost and the time that is needed to perform that transaction. Most of the financial transactions have an extremely  low  viscosity,  dangerously  low.  As  shown above, many transactions occur by an 
> a priori win-win attitude. 
> 
> The purchase of a house has a very high viscosity, as well by its fixed location, its time schedule, as by the notary costs. It allows one to take a financial decision, not as a speculator or a predator,  but  as  an  investor.  When  a  house  has  been  bought  too cheap,  the  buyer  will  get  the  visit  of  a  tax  controller.  So,  black money also will be limited. In other words, there is a reasonably good control on this transparent transaction. For some transactions, especially those that affect the economy  of  a  state  and  so  their  nationals,  the  governments  can  find ways  to  increase  the  viscosity  of  some  transactions
> They  can  introduce supplementary difficulties by asking people to fly over when they operate for high amounts of money, introduce investigations regarding the honesty of the transaction, waiting times before  a  transaction is allowed  to  take  place,  and finally,  introduce a large premium for unfriendly transactions. Especially for financial  transactions  that  can  disrupt  local  economies,  like  the money market of small economies.


http://www.edscuola.eu/wordpress/?wpfb_dl=879




Anybody that is arbitraging cny to usd via crypto exchanges is not moving their bank through the process.  They need to be holding cny and usd and btc at all times to be effectively positioned to handle fx-crypto arbitrage.   So you have to have money involved that's "not making money", but on hand, to strategically tri currency fx-crypto arb.  Hence, how it can get out of hand, its work, and the people that do fx-crypto arb are working it.

The limiter in the process is moving fiat from the chinese exchanges back to the usd exchanges.  How do you do it?  Wire?       One has to be willing to be hold fiat for the duration of the transfer while BTC is bulling at a wild daily rate.      

Much easier to panic hodl BTC 




> The tools for tuning the financial viscosity are the location of the  transaction,  the  time  needed  for  an  approval,  and  the  premium to be paid for that transaction. These tools can successfully be  used  to  strongly  augment  the  viscosity  of  financial  transactions, and so, avoid unwanted disruptions.



^^^ none of that exists on* ltcbtc* between huobi and btc-e; hence parity.


and from btce-e terms:



> We don't accept international wire transfers from US Citizens or from US Banks
>  All transfers from US Citizens or US Bank will be refused by bank

----------


## presence

OKCoin LTCCNY making a push at 26; 

30k LTC wall preventing the climb

If 26 falls there's good possibility of moon time again.

----------


## presence

26.380000000000000000000

----------


## presence



----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I thought arbitrage is the act of taking advantage of the difference.


Okay, good point, but you needed to be more clear about that.




> Anyway aside from definitions, is no one selling on china and buying in the US and converting there yuan to dollars? I know there's a certain loss in this process but I would not assume that its 25 bucks.


As for the idea that you could actually arbitrage your way to wealth, the gap still isn't big enough to really account for the costs of trading and moving money from exchange to exchange with the time it takes just to transfer the money, which makes it far more risky.




> Anyway, I'm still on the sidelines here. There's a wedge forming in my opinion, which is likely to break to the downside to perhaps test the 1950 level.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for a hint of where the market will go by either breaking 2205 or 2145.


Let's see how your prediction of breaking 2205 holds up.  We're at 2270 currently...  

I actually bought a small long position at $330 and have my finger on the sell trigger as soon as I see signs of weakness, at which point I will consider a short followed by a long-term long.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

//

----------


## fatjohn

Ugh well it broke on the other side. I went long as soon as it happened but got stopped out in an unexpectedly strong correction (US and Europe had some strange action during that Chinese breakout) then traded short for a little (on emotions, tss idiot me). Painful 24 hours. Lost more than half the gains I made in this upswing (counting in btc)

Now I am long again but not super comfortable, it is trading close to a trendline I am watching atm. I hope it holds, I am currently seeing lots of volume with large players on the buy side. (Oh and a welcome violent move upwards as I write, a little bit more comfortable now going to set some stops and sleep a bit) 

So this channel could hold for a long while but somewhere along the way I think we will revisit the 21 day moving average. This was often done during the previous bubbles. This might mean a retraction from new highs (3000 ish?) to the previous highs (2300) timing points to the 9th of november. (theory is 21 day moving average will cross the trendline which has proven to give the most resistance and support so far. The one that I was originally waiting for a break to the downside. Anyway will post a picture after my nap.

----------


## amonasro

> I actually bought a small long position at $330 and have my finger on the sell trigger as soon as I see signs of weakness, at which point I will consider a short followed by a long-term long.


I am in a similar position. Long both BTC and LTC, but with a breakeven stop loss. I'm becoming cautiously optimistic.

Every bone in my trader body wanted to be a bear over the weekend, but every time the market paused to gauge selling, there was little to none. I'm seeing the same thing today... after the paltry selling wave passes, the market gets dull and the next little wave of demand pushes it up. Welcome to the bull market, I guess. And not to mention the 20k powder keg of shorts on Finex

----------


## muh_roads

Setting stop losses here I think is madness with all this volatility.   Be your own manual stop loss.  China is buying.  China is buying.  The entire month of November could be very golden.

----------


## muh_roads

Don't short an uptrend.  The more contracts people try to short, the more rocket fuel we will get as OKC hunts for the liquidations.

https://www.okcoin.com/future/future...ype=1&symbol=0

----------


## muh_roads

*350!!!!!  THERE IS NOTHING FOR SALE!

1000 BTC TO 400!

FOMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*

----------


## muh_roads

*"It's China, Stupid"*

https://blog.bitmex.com/crypto-trader-digest-nov-3/

----------


## presence

2015 was a triple bottom.

When a cup and handle meets the neckline it makes a handle.

When a triple bottom meets the neckline it makes a measured move up.

----------


## presence

> Setting stop losses here I think is madness with all this volatility.


I'll use an extreme high for an overbought sell signal or an extreme low for a "despair" buy signal... but when it comes to "stoploss" trades I only act on moving average crosses.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

SENTIMENT IS VERTICAL

----------


## presence

```
import talib 

LTCBTC = pairs.ltc_btc
BTCCNY = pairs.btc_cny
LTCCNY = pairs.ltc_cny

BTCE = exchanges.btce
OKCOIN = exchanges.okcoin

def tick():
    
    ltcbtc = data(exchange=BTCE)[LTCBTC].warmup_period('close')
    
    ltcbtc_china = (data(exchange=OKCOIN)[LTCCNY].warmup_period('close')/
                    data(exchange=OKCOIN)[BTCCNY].warmup_period('close'))

    cny_premium = talib.MA((ltcbtc_china/ltcbtc), timeperiod = 10)

    plot('ltcbtc_cny_composite', ltcbtc_china[-1])
    plot('ltcbtc_btce', ltcbtc[-1])
    
    plot('cny_premium', cny_premium[-1], secondary=True)
    plot('zero', 1, secondary=True)
    if info.tick == 0:
        plot('offset', 0.985, secondary=True)
```

----------


## amonasro

> Setting stop losses here I think is madness with all this volatility.   Be your own manual stop loss.  China is buying.  China is buying.  The entire month of November could be very golden.


I have to use them at OKcoin. 10x leverage can be a bitch and when the price goes against you... the losses really start to mount. Best to take the hit and live to trade another day. On 20x leverage a price change of $10 can be fatal to your account so best not to mess around and cut your losers short. With cross margin mode I've seen people get liquidated on $2-3 countermoves as you can keep adding to your position using mounting profits and leverage yourself into a corner. Bad, bad decisions.

Alternatively you could use a trailing stop.

----------


## presence

*Approximately 6:30 am Eastern; 7 hours from now* 





_6% Moar Coinz Short_

----------


## muh_roads

> I have to use them at OKcoin. 10x leverage can be a bitch and when the price goes against you... the losses really start to mount. Best to take the hit and live to trade another day. On 20x leverage a price change of $10 can be fatal to your account so best not to mess around and cut your losers short. With cross margin mode I've seen people get liquidated on $2-3 countermoves as you can keep adding to your position using mounting profits and leverage yourself into a corner. Bad, bad decisions.
> 
> Alternatively you could use a trailing stop.


oh jeez, yeah.  I was just speaking of 1x coin spot.  Contracts are available all day long I assume?  I waited too long to create an OKC account.  They need verifying.

Regarding spot, order books are so thin that u just can't get back in if u need to.  At least the amount I'd like.

You should go play 100x on bitmex.  50 cent move in the wrong direction margin calls you.  LOL

----------


## PaulConventionWV

My long from $330 auto-closed at $360.  I saw the charts and bought right back in at $366.  Now riding it.  I think we'll see over $400 before a major correction.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

using linux mint window transparency to interpolate live; I'm sure other OS's have similar feature.








> *Window opacity*
> 
>   You can now shade windows or change their opacity by using your mouse  wheel on their titlebar. A quick roll of the mouse wheel makes your  window semi-transparent so you can see what’s happening underneath  without the need to tile things or to use Alt-tab. This option is  available in the “Windows” module.



http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_qiana_c...n_whatsnew.php


I spend a lot of time analysing charts like this.

----------


## amonasro

> oh jeez, yeah.  I was just speaking of 1x coin spot.  Contracts are available all day long I assume?  I waited too long to create an OKC account.  They need verifying.
> 
> Regarding spot, order books are so thin that u just can't get back in if u need to.  At least the amount I'd like.
> 
> You should go play 100x on bitmex.  50 cent move in the wrong direction margin calls you.  LOL


100x, yeah right! 10x is stressful enough, and 5x is what I aim for most of the time, except now. It does feel different in that every price rise is met with small amounts of selling (traders booking profits mostly) as opposed to the deluge of supply thrown at every little price rise all year.

BTC just blew past $400. Quarterly futures are at $450. I see LTC is popping too. The bull is awakening.

----------


## presence

*HONEY BADGER ROI ACTUAL

lease:

https://tradewave.net/marketplace/litepresence*

----------


## fatjohn

I think I'm done trading for a while. This is just too much, too nerve wracking. I would like to see a retreat close to the 21 day moving average before I play leverage again. I want a do-over, I learned so much by doing. Plus I earned a few coins, but could have earned much more if i sat still.

1) don't trade with too short stops.
2) trade less, more perma bull
3) if you don't know what to expect, stay long.
4) always watch the spread
5) dont trade on kraken at night or better switch to somewhere else
6) use limit orders during dull moments and only during dull moments.

Edit: I changed my mind but I'm playing with a smaller position now. I need some comfortableness.

----------


## kpitcher

I'm glad I'm in this for the long term. Trying to figure out if this is a to the moon or a bubble would drive me crazy

21% in one day is huge.

----------


## amonasro

> I think I'm done trading for a while. This is just too much, too nerve wracking. I would like to see a retreat close to the 21 day moving average before I play leverage again. I want a do-over, I learned so much by doing. Plus I earned a few coins, but could have earned much more if i sat still.
> 
> 1) don't trade with too short stops.
> 2) trade less, more perma bull
> 3) if you don't know what to expect, stay long.
> 4) always watch the spread
> 5) dont trade on kraken at night or better switch to somewhere else
> 6) use limit orders during dull moments and only during dull moments.


If it's your first time with leverage it's good to be cautious. I had a couple of expensive lessons too... not in a hurry to revisit them  The most important is to use stops and have the self control to honor (and not cancel) them. Another is to time your entries so you're not longing into pumps or shorting into dumps, as the price will inevitably reverse and immediately put you under stress. For instance, to go long I buy a local dip and put a stop a few dollars underneath. I had to do this a couple times in the $230-$240 range before one stuck as the price kept moving lower.

If I hadn't cut my recent short trades when they went against me a couple dollars, my trading account would be in dire straights. In hindsight, one short would have worked out while the other would have completely blown up in my face. It was an 800 contract short near $300 (I thought we were in distribution, doh) that would have destroyed me had I left it open. I took the relatively small loss with some wincing and gnashing of teeth, but was able to go long later on and ride it all the way up (it's still open). In hindsight, it was stupid to short at all!

My worst mistake was to cancel a stop loss at $260 before the big XT fear dumps started coming in. I saw the market start to recover and stupidly *I canceled it*, went on a walk with my wife, and came back to total carnage at $220. My trading account blown by over 50%. Never, never again.

I was reading articles from Wyckoff's old trading magazine, _The Magazine of Wall Street,_ and the big successful market operators who managed to make (and keep) a fortune on Wall Street wrote that cutting their losers short and letting winners run was their number one rule. It sounds so simple but really hard to do in the moment. The articles are reprinted in _Stock Market Technique_ (two volumes) and are a pretty fun read.

Glad you made out with some profit though, some is better than none!

----------


## presence

> 



Just Dumped 380 and bought 360 on that

----------


## btcltc

BTC is the only coin that is being pumped right now. it can surely hit 500 before christmas

----------


## presence



----------


## amonasro

> Just Dumped 380 and bought 360 on that


Nice catch 

If your prediction of $1500/BTC comes true, those quarterly futures are going to be the investment of the year.

It amazes me how many people seem to be winging it. Check it out, bunch of top longers margin themselves into a corner, get called when it retraces a few dollars, then shorters get liquidated shorting into bottom when it bounces. Brutal. (Most of those accounts are probably using 20x margin so divide the BTC amount by 20 to calculate the actual loss.)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Bought $330, sold $360, bought $366, sold $406.  Now wondering if I should buy in again at $400.

----------


## Crashland

> BTC is the only coin that is being pumped right now. it can surely hit 500 before christmas


More bitcoin buyers I think will eventually trickle down into the alts. Bitcoins that are being bought right now are in weak hands (or at least, weaker hands than the ones that were bought under $250). When the bitcoin market eventually gets more boring, I think some of them might prefer use that bitcoin to get into the more wild alt markets. Total speculation, though.

----------


## presence

30m OBV ltcbtc is bulling price.   

Volume Leads

----------


## amonasro

> More bitcoin buyers I think will eventually trickle down into the alts. Bitcoins that are being bought right now are in weak hands (or at least, weaker hands than the ones that were bought under $250). When the bitcoin market eventually gets more boring, I think some of them might prefer use that bitcoin to get into the more wild alt markets. Total speculation, though.


I agree, if the rally has legs and continues you'll see some of the more popular/useful alts pumped to kingdom come. And LTC for old times sake

----------


## PaulConventionWV

I just took the leap and bought BTC long term.  I think this is the beginning of the bubble.  Price keeps trending up slow and steady with regular pullbacks and the volume isn't jumping up all at once.  We've got a steady trend and the price is soaring.

----------


## amonasro

Insanity. This may go to $700-800 (point & figure accumulation target) before the first big, multi day correction.

----------


## presence

*This is the LIVE pay-per-view HONEY BADGER MASTER SIGNAL*

 

I have report from clients that they've received the signal and have already dumped; my slave also caught the signal and is out.  





 The freeware honey badger has also sold. 

Honeybadger Pro vs LTCUSD has sold last night per backtest at $4.35 I was not running it live.

I'm personally in fiat.



Honeybadger Pro has been holding since Sept 27 at 233

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Bump for Dump

----------


## amonasro

Pres, I trust the bot. Out of my futures long at $493, closed right into a big "buy the dip" wall. Looks like a lot of traders are bailing to take profits here.

----------


## dannno

> The freeware honey badger has also sold.


Mine didn't sell yet 

Honey Badger v1.0 80X BTC (copy)

----------


## fatjohn

I'm with you pres, the action is not so good any more. Retreat to 350-400 is very likely. But what then? I say resume. Right?

I'm thinking about sitting on my coins and waiting it out.

----------


## amonasro

I don't know, the momentum from a move this violent and quick will probably cause this to bounce around for awhile in a range. After three days of straight up candles, though, I'd expect some kind of counter wave. Short sellers are probably chomping at the bit for a good entry at this point, but I won't be one of them.

Point is, I don't know what to do. So I'm out for now.

----------


## Crashland

At this point with the moonshot, I'm not going to look at anything but the weekly candles. Zoom all the way out. When the first week closes red, then wait at least 2-3 more weeks before even thinking about selling. BTW, never take my trading advice/strategy as particularly serious or informed.

----------


## dannno

> Mine didn't sell yet 
> 
> Honey Badger v1.0 80X BTC (copy)


[Bot] **ALERT** HONEY BADGER SAYS: FIAT TIME

Tradewave
11:24 AM

452.874



Finally clicked ..


This is just my trading portfolio, I still have plenty of coin long in the vault.

----------


## chowdan

> [Bot] **ALERT** HONEY BADGER SAYS: FIAT TIME
> Tradewave
> 11:24 AM
> 452.874
> 
> Finally clicked ..
> 
> This is just my trading portfolio, I still have plenty of coin long in the vault.



What was your buy in out of curiosity? 

My freeware
Buy: $236.64 on 9/30 - 10:04am
Sold: $441.70 on 11/04 - 06:04am(PST)

----------


## presence

pwned Nov 4th BTC with open source.  

https://tradewave.net/strategy/pEvUZKWDzd/editor#

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

We're back in.  New user count 38

----------


## bullhammer

> We're back in.  New user count 38



Hey LP, I'm back in too! 
I don't have any bots, just look at the charts when I can and sold a bunch of my ltc position into the $4.7o area then waited for the drop.......
bought back in at $4.17 during a quick glance on my mobile at work >>all in again<<
I've been too busy trying to close in a big addition before the nasty weather closes in for the winter to do any serious trading but its been good to see the action pick up again eh!
you still need to get me started on your bots  one day eh! 

hi ho crypto!

----------


## djthistle01

_http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/11/1652/

__Today was a CRAZY day for Bitcoin traders with the price action  ending its current parabolic rise at $503 and crashing to $366 and  rebounding. Volatility is back and it looks like we can talk more about  crypto and bitcoin again._


_Todays chart is a before and after from the members alert after the  head and shoulders formation became apparent. Also apparent is that the  last day of membership discount is today. Details about membership can  be found in the Premium Tab and if you have any more questions please  Contact Us._
_Bitcoin has certainly entered a bubble phase. With the BTC auction  tomorrow it seems likely the price will do a dead cat bounce and then  sell off into the weekend. Well leave it off with a throwback to how  CSN called the bottom and start of the bubble. Thank You for reading us  and if you have made good profits from our free work please tip us at:  141kKGEDAumvffyXbhFgSwzb1YjDDh82dh





_










Top of the move was just a few dollars away from where my yellow line ends. hope some of you bought at 234 if you already had not. The group is still not playing altcoins at the moment. just btc and stocks. and most people left stocks to trade this volatility. when it is jammin' like this just play the 1 & 5min charts with ema crosses, easy money! last day of the lessons group discount is today. i would of course extend it for anyone here. happy bubble!

----------


## chowdan

> We're back in.  New user count 38


Micro Market entered - Freeware has yet to enter for me. Am curious to see which one pays off better

----------


## fatjohn

Check 2710 on OKCoin and 2570

Something about to give.

----------


## fatjohn

Well its clearly testing the upper line I've drawn now. Bitstamp definitely has some upward momentum already going together with Kraken and others.

I'd say it's going higher again. But holding my finger on all buttons and waiting for the line breaks.

Music please!

----------


## fatjohn

Hmm, a very volumeless launch...

----------


## fatjohn

First narrow bull channel identified:

----------


## fatjohn

Argh, by the gods, the channel was too steep. I had to get out at a small gain.
Now seeing a new channel forming, back in (6 bucks lower) and back in the gains.

I think those fellas at 1broker must hate me today.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## muh_roads

Be out of position if you must, but be careful shorting here.

Look at what we have created on the 1w so far.  It looks like a fractal of the beginning of the Nov 2013 bubble.  It did crazy wicking action up to 2800 then came down to 2100 and just went right back up.

----------


## presence

> I'd say it's going higher again. But holding my finger on all buttons and waiting for the line breaks.


That's where my gut is too.

Cappacino Grande or Second Measured Move off the Triple Bottom is the question.



moar here:

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/rece...-bitcoin/714/2

----------


## fatjohn

> Check 2710 on OKCoin and 2570
> 
> Something about to give.


I hope I am not too much of a spammer and sometimes I post $#@! that's wrong but I am just amazed by this one.
I would like to ask a moment of you, go to bitcoinwisdom, get the 1h chart of OKCoin, zoom out as far as you can, connect the tops of the 6th and the 30th of October, zoom back in to see the price action of today and look where the bottom lies. 

I swear, it may have missed with only 0.2 yuan and that's perhaps because I didnt have anything more accurate than hour candles.
WTF, whoever is painting this chart is still in control I'd say.

That line is now at 2572.

----------


## amonasro

> That's where my gut is too.


My gut is up, too, although shorts are itching to see it go down. The problem there is that once the supply shortage is great enough, the price begins decisively jumping out of the accumulation range and pullbacks are shallow once a little demand enters (China). Shorts end up getting stomped because they've been trained to sell into these kinds of rises all year. They pile into each little decline without any regard for the recent change in character of the price movements, or context of what has been happening for 9 months.

----------


## amonasro

Looking a bit more bearish tonight as supports are breaking and there's not much demand coming in. Out of all long positions and locking in profit from the 12/25 futures.

----------


## muh_roads

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTARhL4U8AAOpCT.png:large

----------


## XTreat

I don't read charts and I very rarely do more than just buy and hold, but it's starting to look to me like BTC-->LTC might be a good deal right now.


Thoughts?

----------


## kfarnan

> I don't read charts and I very rarely do more than just buy and hold, but it's starting to look to me like BTC-->LTC might be a good deal right now.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?


Affirmative..

----------


## fatjohn

Is this the start of a new wave?

Pres, what do you think of btc/ltc? 

I have been trying to convince my brother for more than a year to buy some bitcoin, one of his favorite arguments against was what was holding "a $#@!coin" (his version of altcoin) back from dethroning bitcoin. So now he wants to buy some litecoin perhaps if price pulls back.

----------


## amonasro

BTC/LTC could be a good play but the chart looks pretty ugly atm. Calling bottoms is tricky in crypto... it usually takes me 2-3 times getting stopped out before I catch it.

----------


## presence

> Pres, what do you think of btc/ltc? 
> 
> I have been trying to convince my brother


I took 15% coin gain in the BTCUSD dip shadowing my badger manually and I picked up another 3% manually over the past 12 hours.

I'm back in LTC presently at 00985 hodling

The badger is still hodling

If you have to do any convincing, LTC is not for him.  Alt coin trading requires dedication to candlesticks and balls of depleted uranium.  You can't turn a hoe into a housewife and ltc is a skanky bitch most of the time.    


On btcusd I'm looking for consolidation

----------


## presence



----------


## btcltc

> I took 15% coin gain in the BTCUSD dip shadowing my badger manually and I picked up another 3% manually over the past 12 hours.
> 
> I'm back in LTC presently at 00985 hodling



That's impressive. Is that just luck, do you have whale contacts or do you know ur stuff?

----------


## presence

if ltc breaks bullish here...

----------


## presence

Okcoin and Huobi new 30 day high OBV

----------


## presence

> That's impressive. Is that just luck, do you have whale contacts or do you know ur stuff?


I count beans for fun and herd whales on my time off.

----------


## presence

China gives zero $#@!s about first selloff

1h OBV

----------


## presence

> On btcusd I'm looking for consolidation


Consolidation has occurred and we now have 12h ma2 * ma3 crossed bull



Honey Badger Pro LIVE







LEASE:

https://tradewave.net/marketplace/litepresence

----------


## fatjohn

Buy Buy Buy!

----------


## presence

> Buy Buy Buy!


Ever get habenero juice in your eyes inadvertently?   That's how I feel after that video.

----------


## presence

VERSION UPDATE
===============

I just did a **Honey Badger *Freeware*** version update.  


----------


- It will handle restarts more effectively.  
- enforced 1h trading live to btc/fiat pairs to prevent noobs from fail.
- prevented live start without initialization keys
- clearly outlined protocol for starting live


----------

PLEASE RESTART
====================

----------


## presence

https://bfxdata.com/sentiment/longshort.php

----------


## presence

BUY HARDER

----------


## fatjohn

> BUY HARDER


?

Could you explain what you deduce of these graphs.? Am i reading them wrong? Green is long and red is short right?

----------


## nayjevin

> Is this the start of a new wave?
> 
> Pres, what do you think of btc/ltc? 
> 
> I have been trying to convince my brother for more than a year to buy some bitcoin, one of his favorite arguments against was what was holding "a $#@!coin" (his version of altcoin) back from dethroning bitcoin. So now he wants to buy some litecoin perhaps if price pulls back.


There's no utility need for the coin right now, but there is for bitcoin.  The future is uncertain.

eta: not to say that if I had lots of spare money and a way to catch the bottom I wouldn't hold at least some of them.

----------


## nayjevin

> I just took the leap and bought BTC long term.  I think this is the beginning of the bubble.  Price keeps trending up slow and steady with regular pullbacks and the volume isn't jumping up all at once.  We've got a steady trend and the price is soaring.


You come out okay Paul?

----------


## nayjevin

> ?
> 
> Could you explain what you deduce of these graphs.? Am i reading them wrong? Green is long and red is short right?


I'm seeing longs and shorts both increasing at the same time prior to bubbles on that chart, but that is a guess.  I see little evidence for bull bets.

----------


## amonasro

I'd say the outlook is more bearish if ~$352 is broken on Stamp/Finex, would consider a short entry there. Currently not enough action to take either side... just chopping around, lots of traders losing money. 

Looking at longer term fractals and afraid the 3d automatic reaction will take us down further in a bearish scenario for a pullback to test the 9 month range ($300-330) as support...

----------


## nayjevin

> I'd say the outlook is more bearish if ~$352 is broken on Stamp/Finex, would consider a short entry there. Currently not enough action to take either side... just chopping around, lots of traders losing money. 
> 
> Looking at longer term fractals and afraid the 3d automatic reaction will take us down further in a bearish scenario for a pullback to test the 9 month range ($300-330) as support...


That's kind of what I looked at, but seeking evidence to validate my 'anything over $325 is a bubble' made any conclusions I might have drawn suspect.

How do you normalize the volume across exchanges so that analysis like that has any meaning?  Some exchanges have a fraction of the traders they used to, some many more than they used to.

----------


## presence

> ?
> 
> Could you explain what you deduce of these graphs.? Am i reading them wrong? Green is long and red is short right?


1) green > red... by far.   Therefore loans are being taken long moreso than short.

2)  over Oct we see that as swaps increase for both btc and usd price rises.   then a plateau in swaps preceeds the final bull run.

3) swaps fell off their plateau before the bubble corrected.

4) over the past 5 days as price has consolidated towards 360/370 we've seen an increase in swap activity of both currencies at a fairly equal rate during the consolidation which bodes bullish.



That means last nights little drop was redefining the correction channel but not indicative of a full cascade down to despair.  Hence this morning all of yesterdays fright was instantly corrected.      No reason to panic on a retail long.


Inverse Head and shoulders still rising off Nov 5th Head; we have initial breakout and yet another touchback that

*remained above the inverse head* 

and returned to

*redefine the channel top*

off both armpits.

----------


## presence

> How do you normalize the volume across exchanges so that analysis like that has any meaning?


_
On Balance Volume Oscillation
money flow index
Chaikin A/D_

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/obv-oscillator/719
https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/mfi-...out-ta-lib/234
https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/ta-l...mentation/53/2

----------


## amonasro

> That's kind of what I looked at, but seeking evidence to validate my 'anything over $325 is a bubble' made any conclusions I might have drawn suspect.


I think it's important to respect the big change in behavior the price had pushing out of the long term range. Big fractal, big parabolic arc indicating a huge demand increase coming in from somewhere. That, to me, is adoption. The price racing up and becoming temporarily overbought is simply a result of a herd of elephants trying to get through a tiny door, so to speak. While not "healthy" there is simply no other way as we're dealing with a rare commodity and the shortage becomes apparent during every bull run. People take coins off exchange and hold. There were reports of a lot of old coins moving around simply because exchanges had to dig deep into cold storage to meet demand.




> How do you normalize the volume across exchanges so that analysis like that has any meaning?  Some exchanges have a fraction of the traders they used to, some many more than they used to.


I look at relative volume and use my best judgment if something seems off. While not an exact science, it is usually good enough to find actionable places to trade.

----------


## fatjohn

Is anybody struck by how similar the chart looks to the one in the OP?

----------


## presence

BTCe was just briefly above both Stamp and Finex.  The arb is less than 1%.



*                   If btcusd at btce > stamp and finex, buy ltcbtc, else sell ltcbtc                * https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/if-b...ell-ltcbtc/609

----------


## fatjohn

I think i feel $#@!ing sick. Have been pucking up coins every day these last four days. Lost about a fifth of my coins.
Almost back at where i started. Except for all the time, effort and stress.

Worst trader ever.

On okcoin it just retraced to the price of a couple of hours ago. On finex that -7 ffs.

----------


## nayjevin

> I think i feel $#@!ing sick. Have been pucking up coins every day these last four days. Lost about a fifth of my coins.
> Almost back at where i started. Except for all the time, effort and stress.
> 
> Worst trader ever.


Sorry to hear that.

One thing you can do, if you're long on the coin, is just set some sell orders wherever you need to to make it back, and forget about those coins.

Remember buy and hold beats most strategies if you just wait to buy until it's been pretty flat for a few weeks.

The other thing to remember, that I know from poker, is everyone has a string of bad luck.  (Everyone gambling that is.)  Sometimes that bad luck causes bad decisions.  People play best when they are not burned out, too.  Being away from the table makes you hungry, and gets you ready to hunt.

Good luck out there!




> On okcoin it just retraced to the price of a couple of hours ago. On finex that -7 ffs.





> BTCe was just briefly above both Stamp and Finex. The arb is less than 1%.


During the climb btce was following closely to the larger exchanges because no one wanted to move their money, I suppose.  Now it's been flat for a minute, and I suspected a whale arb move happening this morning when huobi and okcoin went up 3-4%, then back down about the same amount, but btce only came back down 2%.

Pump huobi, sell high, buy at btce, upward pressure on btce keeping price higher, making 1 min chart trading even more risky than it already is!

----------


## presence

> On btcusd I'm looking for consolidation




Everything is going according to plan.   Chill and panic hodl.

----------


## presence

Don't get shaken by whale games.

2h 1h and 30m cny OBV all mooned while price tanked in china.







> CaptainClaw: kmccrindle, dump to 0.01CNY probably hacked
> kmccrindle: captainclaw that is crazy.did you buy? lol.
> CaptainClaw: kmccrindle, and people who bought during the dump got their accounts locked when the tried to withdraw






> Cronos: just logged in to my OK account...and guess what OK doctored their LTC chart, erased the dump! just like reddit peeps said

----------


## amonasro

This little drop is on moderate volume so it will probably need to be retested in the coming hours. If that holds on lower volume (more bullish on a higher low), I'm good for a long re-entry.

edit: certainly did not hold, blew right through support.

----------


## fatjohn

Well, I'm out. I have one coin left over in profit. I dont think this is just a correction anymore. Nothing gets bid, no trendlines are trending up anymore, 10 day moving average and less is or is starting to trend down.

And i need to pickup my life outside of bitcoin again. It was fun for a while imagining to be rich.

Edit: on the plus side for you guys, good chance this is the bottom.

----------


## muh_roads

> Well, I'm out. I have one coin left over in profit. I dont think this is just a correction anymore. Nothing gets bid, no trendlines are trending up anymore, 10 day moving average and less is or is starting to trend down.
> 
> And i need to pickup my life outside of bitcoin again. It was fun for a while imagining to be rich.
> 
> Edit: on the plus side for you guys, good chance this is the bottom.


Don't quit now, the fun is just getting started.

Back to 380 by this weekend.  Because...bitcoin.

----------


## kfarnan

Presence, Is the Market place still holding?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Don't quit now, the fun is just getting started.
> 
> Back to 380 by this weekend.  Because...bitcoin.


Is that sarcasm?

----------


## nayjevin

> _
> On Balance Volume Oscillation
> money flow index
> Chaikin A/D_
> 
> https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/obv-oscillator/719
> https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/mfi-...out-ta-lib/234
> https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/ta-l...mentation/53/2





> I took 15% coin gain in the BTCUSD dip shadowing my badger manually and I picked up another 3% manually over the past 12 hours.
> 
> I'm back in LTC presently at 00985 hodling


Thanks

----------


## amonasro

Detected some climactic action last night, nabbed a long at $300 (futures), half size position. 

Check the 20:00 2h candle on Finex; closed well off the low on very high volume. The only time that happens is when heavy selling is met with high quality buying. That's usually enough to cause a good bounce if not a reversal of the previous move.

----------


## chowdan

> Presence, Is the Market place still holding?


My client is still holding, freeware has gone to fiat

----------


## presence

> Presence, Is the Market place still holding?


YES!

We were in on Sept 27 at 233; We sold almost the exact peak on Nov 4th at 450+; and bought back at $404.... holdling since.   We're currently holding 100% quantitative without a hard timer.  Green Dragon primary mode for 559 hours and counting. 


I retuned the Nov 4th (subclass 1.5) event for the next version update I'm working on for the five trades of best fit.  It now catches another short on the second leg down. This development fork is also now holding.
*
Honey Badger Z22 Dev Fork*



You can read more about that here:

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/the-...u=litepresence


I'll have the new version out to the marketplace as soon its fully tested, it will also include a new Iceberg module.  I only had a few hours to run backtests on it yesterday, but it seems compatible with the other seven subclass 1.5 trades back to the dawn of bitcoin. 








I'm personally continuing to hodl my 00985 LTCs from a few days ago.   We took a heavy dip there to 00840 but I held through.   00966 last.

I'm looking for a push to 01370.






The marketplace algo as CURRENTLY running LIVE is tuned like this:




It was tuned like this when it made the actual LIVE Nov4th sell and Nov 5th buy:

----------


## presence

Honeybadger Marketplace LIVE



Confirmed via backtest

----------


## presence

Judge Judy takes on "Bitcoin Scammer"




> 1. Scammer: I'm selling a truck for $2000. 
> 2. Buyer to Scammer: I'll buy it. 
> 3. Scammer to BTC Seller: I want to buy $2000 worth of BTC. 
> 4. BTC Seller to Scammer: Deposit $2000 in account #123456 
> 5. Scammer to Buyer: Deposit $2000 in account #123456 
> 6. Buyer to Scammer: I deposited the money. 
> 7. Scammer to BTC Seller: I deposited the money. 
> 8. BTC Seller to Scammer: Here are your bitcoins. 
> 9. Buyer to Scammer: where is my truck? 
> ...


epic Judy fail

----------


## kpitcher

He should have brought a counter claim for the 2k, those judge shows pay whatever they're after. The fine print disclaimer at the end of the show says all parties are paid by the show.

Still the judge seems very rude to not even hear further info. Although... why the guy went on the show in the first place is beyond me unless he just wanted the guy to be paid off without it coming out of his pocket.

----------


## muh_roads

> He should have brought a counter claim for the 2k, those judge shows pay whatever they're after. The fine print disclaimer at the end of the show says all parties are paid by the show.
> 
> Still the judge seems very rude to not even hear further info. Although... why the guy went on the show in the first place is beyond me unless he just wanted the guy to be paid off without it coming out of his pocket.


Man in the middle attacks are very real.  I was victim to one and went through $20K in identity theft because of it a few years ago.  It is surprisingly easy to open a checking account online in someones name without being at a branch in person.  It was a mess.  Filing police reports.  Dealing with fraudulent CC's.

----------


## presence

I'm pretty sure we're all in clean under BTCe 320.  I was on 51 minute latency; so I was probably last in.

----------


## bullhammer

> good to see mate!  hi ho crypto! 
> 
> I'm pretty sure we're all in clean under BTCe 320.  I was on 51 minute latency; so I was probably last in.


Hi Ho Crypto!

----------


## bullhammer

check this out guys! 
https://youtu.be/SIfxFxnCqCo

you can now tele port cryptos soon!

----------


## presence

Honey Badger moved to USD again this morning

master at btce:


test slave at finex:

----------


## presence

Images may extend off edge of screen; *right click view image*



this is the live master.  note the light blue line at the top turning downhill.  Thats my "resistance" line.  Also note its descent is accelerating. 



Note the historical significance of resistance turning downhill twice before during 2015, now in lime green here:



bodes moar coinz short

----------


## amonasro

Pres, hope you don't mind me posting my crazy brand of analysis.

I jumped in a long at $328 Wednesday and out at $338 yesterday. The rally didn't gain much of a following and went sideways into a little distributional formation. I can't see it immediately jumping to $400 because the buyers from the high-volume parabolic arc will want to get out at breakeven, stopping any rally cold. On the other hand there is solid support near $300. We may be stuck in a range, which are incredibly frustrating to trade because supply and demand are in relative harmony and speculators are able to move the price easily. Eventually one side gets the upper hand and the proper trade entry point becomes more clear.

Here's a chart indicating what I mean: the price just whips back and forth without a trend forming in either direction, each structure setting up a move to the next. Also notice the structures within structures. The point & figure chart takes time out of the equation making it easier to see the raw price movements.

----------


## presence

> Pres, hope you don't mind me posting my crazy brand of analysis.
> 
> 
> We may be stuck in a range, which are incredibly frustrating to trade because supply and demand are in relative harmony and speculators are able to move the price easily.



Yes.  I agree.  You have to treat this at a higher frequency.  


if 12h sma2 > 12h sma30, then I call (bull) 
if 12h sma30 < 12h sma60, then I call (bear) 

Until then... I'm watching and playing the interaction of the higher frequency 30m sma 8 24 48 and 72



I like the P&F chart, where did you do that? tradingview?

----------


## amonasro

> I like the P&F chart, where did you do that? tradingview?


Yep, Tradingview. I don't see P&F charting used much but they are very useful. It's the first thing a new trader should learn imo.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Honey Badger marketplace edition has been trading at higher frequency this past week.  We're holding BTC again as of this morning.



each sell/buy is about 3% coin gain

----------


## muh_roads

> 


Lies.  WageCan beat them to it.  

Although this one is probably more "legal".

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> I'm selling the hype and calling this a bubble,


FEG




> the amount it goes over 325 is the amount of insanity in the bitcoin community.


EVEN A BROKEN DOG SHINES ON A CLOCK'S ASS SEVERAL TIMES PER ANNUM

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> Confirmed via backtest


THANK YOU FOR THE TIP ON TRADEWAVE

I MAY SOMEDAY BE A RICH MAN

MR. LITEPRESENCE, SIR, IF YOU WOULD, WILL YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY CORN != FEG

IF LITEPRESENCE LIKESCORN()
  BUY(CORN,FEGGY_AMOUNT,HOPIUM_PRICE,NONE)

----------


## presence

> MR. LITEPRESENCE, SIR, IF YOU WOULD, WILL YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY CORN != FEG




```
CORN = FEG

CORN^2 = CORN*FEG
CORN^2 + CORN^2 = CORN^2 + CORN*FEG
2(CORN^2) = CORN^2 + CORN*FEG 
2(CORN^2) - 2(CORN*FEG) = CORN^2 + CORN*FEG - 2(CORN*FEG)
2(CORN^2) - 2(CORN*FEG) = CORN^2 - (CORN*FEG)
CORN*2(CORN^2 - (CORN*FEG)) = FEG*(CORN^2 - (CORN*FEG))

FEG = 2*CORN
```

----------


## kfarnan

> 


Wagecan is awesome.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

I have trouble charting us deep into the future; outside of our consolidation channel. 


 Best to just stay on the right side of 1h 7/30 until the converging 12h 30/90 makes up its mind.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

we moved  back to fiat this morning.

This is the sma interaction we're playing until the consolidation breaks.... its not really to profit; although we've gained 3% coins twice... we're playing it to be on the right side when consolidation breaks.

image may extend off forum frame "right click view image" 



removing the price noise; signal shows down now




out at small loss after +3% shares twice earlier



"resistance" still ominously downhill showing sma30 and sma60 12h continue to converge bearishly.   tough call out into the future... if up we're looking towards 20% $360 break... if down a flash crash to $250 is very possible here; so this is an important consolidation to watch and be on the right side of as it breaks.

----------


## presence

> *'You're up against the adoption curve'
> *


*

**Circle, Bitreserve, and BitPay* *
are* *turning their backs** on bitcoin*






          Nov. 22, 2015, 11:42 AM 





> Some of the most high-profile and well-funded startups looking at  bitcoin are now pivoting their businesses and distancing themselves from  the digital currency, less than two years after the hype around bitcoin  blew up.
> 
> 
>  Circle, BitPay, and Bitreserve — who between them have raised over  $130 million — have all shifted away from bitcoin in one way or another  in recent months.
> 
> 
> 
> *That's after people* *failed to adopt** it in the way entrepreneurs and venture capitalists had hoped.*


http://uk.businessinsider.com/circle...option-2015-11





> I don’t think bitcoin is going to be anywhere near as important as people say it is today.






> Bitcoin itself may never be more than a curiosity.






> If you invest in bitcoin thinking 'oh my god bitcoin is happening in the  next 2 years and we should hire up and staff up really quick for that'  you're probably going to feel some pain.

----------


## kpitcher

I will agree that it's harder to get people to start using bitcoin than say paypal, surprisingly so. When coinbase was offering $75 for a new account referral I tried to get all my facebook friends to sign up, splitting it with them. Free $40 for a few minutes of effort would seem to be an easy thing to get people to do. I had 1 do it. Not sure why it's any harder than paypal, same basic idea when using coinbase.

----------


## muh_roads

> 


Look at ichimoku.  I double my cloud settings to 52 on cryptowat.ch because bitcoin is non-stop 24-7. 

Bullish kumo twist with the least amount of resistance coming up on the 2h.  If the fiat hoarding bullwhales want to take advantage of the opportunity to mimic the fractal, that window of opportunity is approaching.

Currently bouncing hard off the bottom of the 2h bband.

----------


## presence



----------


## djthistle01

> 




But this totally discounts any movement for halving in the late spring early summer. I can't get behind that. 

the 4 wave up idea (wave 1 top already in) is one idea, but another thing you all should be looking at is the btc &  drk/dash chart. btc double top has to be considered.

----------


## djthistle01

a chartless update from my groups calls is: all-in backed up the truck 230's, and then full bail at 477. I focused on shorting the dragons down versus buying the dip, though I did once. Shorting has been a better trade for sure.

I still have not given a buy call. looking at charts tonight for this week though. ltc fractal interests me, more so LTC/BTC ratio. there is a pattern in there that should send it back to 0.019-0.022 though it has failed 1 time historically, so not 100%.

lots of decent alts are all making the same pattern so I think we should get a short alts season before christmas still.

as for stocks i think GPRO is worth watching. getting hammered and technicals have it bouncing to 37 and perhaps 49 after it bottoms. with leverage on 1broker, simple or whatever...tradersway, idgaf lol, but building a leverage position should pay off well for the traders. 

oil smashed and still has so many reasons to go lower technically, though it is winter so heating costs tend to add demand. oil is another that will pay off big for strong hands and a confirmed buy signal.

----------


## presence

*HUGE MANIPULATION UNDERWAY IN LITECOIN*



SELL 215,000 LTC @ 0.00967

----------


## presence

That's about 2000 BTC; $3,000,000.

----------


## presence

*9554 Bitcoin Belonging To ISIL Seized By Hactivists*newsBTC-16 hours ago

----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn

> 


Pres, this doji is only on btc-e.
A 30 min candle with a 400 btc volume.

Why would these 400 btc's push the market in a direction?
on all exchanges combined this is probably an average 15 seconds of trading volume.

----------


## presence

> Pres, this doji is only on btc-e.
> A 30 min candle with a 400 btc volume.
> 
> Why would these 400 btc's push the market in a direction?
> on all exchanges combined this is probably an average 15 seconds of trading volume.


A long legged doji and the action it contains doesn't push the market; it segments it.   Everything before the long legged doji (on recent 30m candles) is like a link of sausage... and everything thereafter a new sausage link.   A long legged doji is a big shake up... even when it occurs on just one exchange.   Price opens and closes almost exactly the same but shows wild action for just one candle...  Initially its going to go sideways for 7 or 8 candles within the shadow of the long legs... So the way you read a long leg or "spinning top", in my experience; especially in a sideways market... is wait 10 ten candles, and compare where the market is to where it was at the doji main body.  If its below the doji close after ten... you're headed down... if its above the doji close after ten you're headed up.

Sometimes you'll get one in a strong trending market... if so I usually wait just 4 or 5 candles after the long leg to assess the trend.   

When they show up after sideways action; 10 ticks into the future you get a pretty solid stoploss call.

When the show up after trending action; 5 ticks into the future you get a pretty solid reversal or continuation call.

As price moves outside the shadow of the candle wicks you can expect a measured move the length of that candle.


At least that's the theory

----------


## presence

We have 12h 30/60 cross down btcusd 


*BEAR MARKET CROSS* 

2:30 PM EST

NEW MODE:  CAPITULATION






...and that concludes the October 2015 Green Dragon

----------


## presence

that long legged doji image from earlier got corrupted... I'll repost the fallout here, the candle in question is midchart




You can see clearly that the call can be made comfortably 10 candles after the long legged doji; and as expected the bear call is true; we're trending towards a measured move down; stack that on the 30/60 12h cross bear and things are looking pretty ominous here. Glad to be in fiat.

----------


## muh_roads

amon, you said u wanted to flip your monitor chart upside-down.  Here u go.  

http://upside-down.website/flipper/i...finex%2Fbtcusd

----------


## amonasro

> amon, you said u wanted to flip your monitor chart upside-down.  Here u go.  
> 
> http://upside-down.website/flipper/i...finex%2Fbtcusd


Amazing, love it! Always good for a perspective change

----------


## djthistle01

here is my midterm view going into summer: http://www.coinstreetnews.com/2015/1...d-nov-25-2015/

----------


## fatjohn

> that long legged doji image from earlier got corrupted... I'll repost the fallout here, the candle in question is midchart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see clearly that the call can be made comfortably 10 candles after the long legged doji; and as expected the bear call is true; we're trending towards a measured move down; stack that on the 30/60 12h cross bear and things are looking pretty ominous here. Glad to be in fiat.


I'm confused I saw a trendline breakout on high volume (massive spike on OKCoin) today and went long. Then I checked here after not being here for a couple of days and see you saying the total opposite.

----------


## presence

> I'm confused I saw a trendline breakout on high volume (massive spike on OKCoin) today and went long. Then I checked here after not being here for a couple of days and see you saying the total opposite.


read this: 

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/the-...u=litepresence




> ...so with this mornings bullish action... I got to thinking... 
>   has a 12h 30/60 capitulation reversal ever happened before?
> how could I quantify a capitulation reversal?
> is it possible to buy high and sell higher during capitulation?
>   hmmmmm...

----------


## fatjohn

> read this: 
> 
> https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/the-...u=litepresence


Ok good to know you could turn bull soon. Since I do not want to over trade I'll stay long for now and exit in case we would retrace to 2050. 
However, I'd like to point out two things.

1) your downward sloping resistance on btc-e was broken for an hour and is now being flirted with

2) today was the highest volume day on Huobi and the second highest volume day on OKCoin. Ever! (well the record was established a month ago but still) (the last hour volume has died though)

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

The marketplace Honey Badger took a stoploss shares position last night; intrusion beyond threshold into the 12h 30/60 bear cross zone by 12h ma(2) was the trigger.

----------


## presence

fairly rare event to have happened yesterday, only twice before has there been a breach of the 30/60 bear cross.  I did a lot of backtesting yesterday and was able to improve my Honey Badger algo from 3500X btc since 2012 to about 4200X by adding in a stoploss at the crossing.   Of the 21 "Capitulation" calls the algo has made since 2012; only 3 have turned back bullish; this being the 3rd.

----------


## nayjevin

So it bought 330 sold 345?

Unrelated question:

If there were a verified distributed/decentralized exchange that made fake orders impossible, how would that affect the price of Bitcoin, if any?

(or is there something about my thinking that makes this question not make sense)

Thanks

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> So it bought 330 sold 345?
> 
> Thanks


bought 330 and HOLDING on mechanical timer to prevent flinch

I expect push back to the market top around 410 here; see image previous post





> Unrelated question:
> 
> If there were a verified distributed/decentralized exchange that made fake orders impossible, how would that affect the price of Bitcoin, if any?
> 
> (or is there something about my thinking that makes this question not make sense)



You can fake volume but you really can't fake price.  That is, if youre a big enough fish and you're comped 0% maker and 0% taker... you could put up orders and buy them back yourself just to pump the volume... Volume tends to lead price like a dog on a leash... so these methods can be used to spoof desire.  I suspect that is what happened at ltcbtc 00967 the other day.  It gives an illusion of high volume buying and overcoming a stick in the mud sell wall... but it might just be one giant fish taking a 0.2% loss on his bank (less comp) to hocus pocus the crowd... then wall goes bust... price spikes 10-20% on "real" volume and the magician can exit with prestige.  

So would this process be stopped on a distributed zero fee p2p exchange?  probably not.


------------

Now if you're talking about the exchanges themselves "faking volume".   I tend to look at that like tinfoil; it would be disastrous on a PR level, and potentially at this juncture on a legal level, if such accounting irregularities were ever proved by the public.  I just don't think its happening.   I believe the high chinese volume can be entirely explained by 

1) lots of chinese people
2) lots of really rich chinese people
*3) zero fee trading on chinese exchanges


+ the proliferation of algo trading
*

----------


## presence

this is just the breakout and touchback from the bear pennant stop, I expect continuation to 400-420 btce

----------


## presence

I see a 7% short in LTC's future 0106 to 0099

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

*I use average 357.63 # 363.76 finex slave; 351.503 btce master

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn

> 


Ok, thx for the update. Personally, I'd like to see the trend brake on OkCoin (2280).
It feels like waiting for godot 

There's still crazy volume during upward price movements, so I am  not counting this bull out yet.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> 


I CAN READ THAT CHART

WWW.AMAGIMETALS.COM

----------


## nayjevin

> I CAN READ THAT CHART
> 
> WWW.AMAGIMETALS.COM

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Monthly trend is up.  Moon is nigh.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## nayjevin

tanking

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> tanking


ANOTHER DAMN TEXAS

----------


## fatjohn

Well pres my hat off to you (and straight into my mouth).

I got out at 2339 / 358 and made a nice profit but there's again a should a could a would a feeling. I was really hoping it would evolve in a true green dragon.

Ah well...

----------


## presence

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...-of-the-Bulls/

----------


## kfarnan

I don't see the same pattern for ltc.  Are they in step?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Well pres my hat off to you (and straight into my mouth).
> 
> I got out at 2339 / 358 and made a nice profit but there's again a should a could a would a feeling. I was really hoping it would evolve in a true green dragon.
> 
> Ah well...


What makes you think it won't?  Just because we're moving sideways?  The weekly trend is still entirely intact.

----------


## presence

> What makes you think it won't?  Just because we're moving sideways?  The weekly trend is still entirely intact.


I don't rule it out as a possibility that the 12h 30 could cross back above 12h 60 here and we could bull on... but it would be unlikely here given that 12h 60 has been sloped downhill for over 48 hours now.

----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn

> I don't rule it out as a possibility that the 12h 30 could cross back above 12h 60 here and we could bull on... but it would be unlikely here given that 12h 60 has been sloped downhill for over 48 hours now.


Uhm so the thirty (which is low) is moving higher and the 60 (which is high) turned lower. How is it then unlikely they would cross? It is practically a given they will cross actually.

The sixty will continue to slope lower because 30 days ago was the high of the bull. And the thirty will only go lower if we plunge to 2120 and below. And that would only accelerate the plunge of the sixty.

To keep 60>30 in this order for the rest of the week would require a severe crash probably all the way to the lowast upward trending support at 2000

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

> Uhm so the thirty (which is low) is moving higher and the 60 (which is high) turned lower. How is it then unlikely they would cross?


Yes... but for green dragon we'd need 30>60 here AND 60 to have a positive slope... else its still qualitatively a capitulating chart.

----------


## muh_roads

I can tell everyone is loaded with anxiety right now.  Should I be in position?  Should I not be in position?  Tons of $#@!ery right now.  Damn Chinese trade washing whales.

The charts show H&S inside H&S so that tells me down.  But the manipulators who seem to be in control also know everyone trades on patterns.

After 2 years the monthly MACD crossed up.  It looks bullish as $#@!.

I'm at a loss of what to say.  This could go either way very hard.

----------


## presence

> I'm at a loss of what to say.  This could go either way very hard.



If we're above 30/60 12h cross SELL
If we're below 30/60 12h cross BUY

Before the next movement, bull or bear, 30/60/90/150 will consolidate to a breadth of less than 5% of price


so we're not bulling we're not bear.... we're capitulating; 12h 90 rising.

that means buy anything on 12h 90, dump it over the 30/60 mesh

rinse repeat whenever possible

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

Looks nice.  I heard they are offering margin trading soon.  Do you know the leverage?

----------


## muh_roads

I take it MA & SMA are the same thing?

blue = 30
green = 60
maroon = 90
orange = 120



30  is definitely going to cross back above 60 at this rate.  And I could  see 60 resolving into a positive slope somewhere between 90 & 120

-------------------------------------




> dump it over the 30/60 mesh


When 90 was over 30 & 60 after the XT panic dump, that looks like the time to buy...not dump it?



EDIT:  I guess that is correct.  Dump when 90 crosses above 60 and 30.  Buy when 120 crossed above 90.

----------


## presence

> I take it MA & SMA are the same thing?


ma is also used to denote the whole class of indications like ema trima dema tema sma wma 
sma is just simple moving average; but sometimes also referred to by just "moving average" which muddles the conversation 
regression is sometimes used short for "linear regression" but doing so  likewise muddles the conversation; could be polynomial, log, or fourier, etc

as a rule of thumb, I'm a simple moving average trader, so if muddle the conversation with "moving average" or "ma" in haste, know I would explicitly state otherwise if I was talking about ema, etc. 

The reason I'm a sma trader is I quant; and quant takes cpu time... sma calcs fastest.  So I can test, retest, and test again my algo "relatively" quickly.

This means its better tuned; better developed logic network.  Stronger computer model.  Refinement comes through iteration. 

To give you a sense of the time involved, I can run my algo against 3000 candles per minute; there are 8760 hourly candles in a year.  Tradewave lets you backtest in 4 minute blocks. 





> Do you know the leverage?


No but I'm interested in shorting btce, let me know what you find out 




> And I could  see 60 resolving into a positive slope somewhere between 90 & 120


I take you back to post 4511 and I can point to 7 times in the past where that didn't happen and ZERO where it did.

*7:0*

So why would we now?  More or less... we're playing with the same sharks in the tank.  




http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6058474

----------


## fatjohn

I think this might be your black swan, pres.

Given that 15 days ago the price was at 2050 staying flat for over 5 days, the price 30 days ago was 2700 going to the 2550 area for over 5 days and 45 days ago the price was 1750 averaging 1800 for the next 5 days we can say this.

If the price continues between 2050 and 2550 (lets say at an average of 2300) the 15 day will continue to rise at a rate of 16.6/day, the 30 day continue to fall at a rate of 8.3/day and the 45 day continue to rise at a rate of 8.3/day.
In this event the 30/15 will cross in 1.5 days and the 30/45 in 3.5 days.

In order to evade these crosses, the price should fall to 1550 so that the decent rates of the 15 day and 30 day are matched or the price needs to rise to 2925 so that the rise rates of the 30 and 45 are matched.

Moreover we can say that in 5 days the events of the 10th and the 26th will cause a change in the 15 and 30 day moving averages since they will no longer make up the data used to compute these averages (10th for 30 day, 26th for 15 day)

More specifically, the 30 day will start to rise as long as price is higher than 2100, the 15 will start to fall as long as prices are below 2300 and the 45 day will start to flatten a bit. However, I expect some violent price action by then.

But which way?

----------


## fatjohn

Pres if 2500 holds, the 30 day will turn positive in 24 hours and the 15 will cross over it not too long afterwards.

I'm changing my views and calling for a moonshot.

----------


## presence

*slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising;
 but the slope of ma60 is falling;
while the 12h chart is capitulated ma2>ma60>ma30>ma90>ma150*




```
    signal = 0
    # if the slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising
    if (ma2s > 0) and (ma30s>0) and (ma90s>0) and (ma150s>0):
        # but the slope of ma60 is falling
        if (ma60s < 0):
            # and the 12h chart is capitulated thus:
            if ma2>ma60>ma30>ma90>ma150:
                signal = 1
                
    plot('signal', signal, secondary=True)
```


very rare condition on the 12h chart; only 4 previous events

this condition was true for less than 48 hours on these dates:

*5/19/2012 Broke GREEN DRAGON 90+ days
9/9/2012 Broke GREEN DRAGON 90+ days
1/3/2013 Broke GREEN DRAGON 90+ days
7/7/2014 Broke RED DRAGON 90+ days



12/5/2015 Condition True
*

----------


## presence

*We have 12h 30x60 cross now on all exchanges*

That changes the state thus:



```

    signal = 0
    # if the slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising
    if (ma2s > 0) and (ma30s>0) and (ma90s>0) and (ma150s>0):
        # but the slope of ma60 is falling
        if (ma60s < 0):
            # and the 12h chart is capitulated thus:
            if ma2>ma30>ma60>ma90>ma150:
                signal = 1
```




now only 2 brief matching instances in the history of bitcoin to the current 12h chart condition:

1)
*the moment before the* *oct 2 2013 flash crash* *"goldmine"*, which then led to the nov 2013 "china bubble"

2)
*may 30, 2013 which went 90 day bear thereafter

*



we are definitely at a pivotal moment.


THIS IS A BREAKPOINT

----------


## presence

oct 2 2013 was the "silk road crash" 

20% down and back up in one day

----------


## amonasro

> The charts show H&S inside H&S so that tells me down.


This is interesting because I tried to trade this. Covered my short at basically breakeven. My trade before that was a wash as well, slight loss, didn't set my stop high enough to lock a profit. The market was telling me it was distribution, should have listened  My trades last month were much better. 

As it stands now we are either still in Phase B or entering Phase C/D. One thing is usually sure--when the price starts jumping with volume and weak pullbacks near the end of the range (long after the initial climactic action that began it), it's time to sit up and take notice. I noticed some whales gobbled up 20,000+ quarterly futures contracts last night (multiple 5000+ contract limit buys) when the price started to move. Usually this does not happen on accident.

Here's a chart of how I am looking at the market right now, my recent trades and some of the difficulties one faces when trying to do this in real time. Point and figure takes time out of the equation and helps me to see whether supply or demand is in control, therefore what may happen next. Accumulation ranges in green, distribution in red. I've found they repeatedly exhibit certain characteristics: Accumulation looking like little reverse head & shoulders patterns with quick dips to support while distributions tend to hug (or exceed) top resistance for awhile, then drop back to support multiple times. One thing that alerted me to the head & shoulders fakeout was that the right shoulder looked more like accumulation than distribution to me.

----------


## presence

> *Justice Department announces arrest of 'key figure' in Silk Road drug website* *Roger Thomas Clark was arrested in Thailand
> *            By Chris Welch     on December 4, 2015 07:32 pm @chriswelch 
>  
>    Share on Facebook        Tweet        Share        Pin     
>              Roger Thomas Clark, accused of being "a senior advisor" of Silk  Road creator Ross Ulbricht, has been arrested in Thailand. The US  Department of Justice announced the news in a press release late this evening,  describing Clark as "a close confidante of Ulbricht’s who advised him  on all aspects of Silk Road’s operations and helped him grow the site  into an extensive criminal enterprise."
>  Clark reportedly went under the username "Variety Jones" at the Silk  Road, an underground drug marketplace that operated on the dark web  between 2011 and 2013, when authorities shut it down. Today's press  release says Clark was paid "hundreds of thousands of dollars" for his  role in helping Ulbricht steer the illegal site's path. The complaint  against Clark sounds pretty damning; here's an excerpt (emphasis by _The Verge_).
>  Among other things, *Clark counseled Ulbricht on the improvement and expansion of Silk Road’s technical infrastructure*, including helping Ulbricht hire and manage a computer programmer to assist with these projects.  *Clark also helped Ulbricht develop and enforce the rules governing how Silk Road vendors and users could do business on the site*, which were designed to maximize the commissions that Ulbricht received from Silk Road sales.  *Clark further advised Ulbricht on how to conceal his involvement in, and hide his profits from, the operation of Silk Road*,  including helping Ulbricht devise cover stories to tell others and make  plans to obtain foreign citizenship and offshore bank accounts.   Finally, *Clark also advised Ulbricht on tactics to thwart efforts by law enforcement to investigate Silk Road*.   In that vein, Clark repeatedly advocated the use of intimidation and  violence to keep members of the Silk Road support staff from cooperating  with law enforcement.He's being charged with one count of narcotics conspiracy, which  carries "a maximum sentence of life in prison and a mandatory minimum  sentence of 10 years," plus one count of money laundering, which could  add another 20. "Clark may have thought residing in Thailand would keep  him out of reach of U.S authorities, but our international partnerships  have proven him wrong," said FBI Assistant Director Diego Rodriguez in a  statement. Other officials also boasted about snagging Clark, a  Canadian citizen. "Anonymity is what Roger Thomas Clark believed he  attained posing as ‘Variety Jones’ while allegedly committing crimes;  but handcuffed and pending extradition is not anonymity," said DEA  Special Agent in Charge James J. Hunt.
>  Clark, 54, was arrested on December 3rd and his extradition to face  charges in the United States is pending. In May, Ross Ulbricht was sentenced to life in prison for founding and managing the Silk Road.


http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/4/98...clark-arrested

----------


## fatjohn

> *slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising;
>  but the slope of ma60 is falling;
> while the 12h chart is capitulated ma2>ma60>ma30>ma90>ma150*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ```
>     signal = 0
> ...


If price holds, in five hours the M60 will start to rise. There was a large sell off occuring 30 days ago.

Edit: to be specific, by 21:00 EST the 12h 60 will rise if price > 2350 and in US if price > 360.

----------


## fatjohn

> This is interesting because I tried to trade this. Covered my short at basically breakeven. My trade before that was a wash as well, slight loss, didn't set my stop high enough to lock a profit. The market was telling me it was distribution, should have listened  My trades last month were much better. 
> 
> As it stands now we are either still in Phase B or entering Phase C/D. One thing is usually sure--when the price starts jumping with volume and weak pullbacks near the end of the range (long after the initial climactic action that began it), it's time to sit up and take notice. I noticed some whales gobbled up 20,000+ quarterly futures contracts last night (multiple 5000+ contract limit buys) when the price started to move. Usually this does not happen on accident.
> 
> Here's a chart of how I am looking at the market right now, my recent trades and some of the difficulties one faces when trying to do this in real time. Point and figure takes time out of the equation and helps me to see whether supply or demand is in control, therefore what may happen next. Accumulation ranges in green, distribution in red. I've found they repeatedly exhibit certain characteristics: Accumulation looking like little reverse head & shoulders patterns with quick dips to support while distributions tend to hug (or exceed) top resistance for awhile, then drop back to support multiple times. One thing that alerted me to the head & shoulders fakeout was that the right shoulder looked more like accumulation than distribution to me.


Good to see you use bitfinex in your analysis, beware of volume spoofing on OKCoin and huobi. see here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...19#post6055019

----------


## presence

what are the $#@!ing odds?

*October 2 2013 
Ross Ulbricht Arrested*
http://arstechnica.com/information-t...20-in-3-hours/

for a brief instance....

    # the slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising          
# but the slope of ma60 is falling
            # the 12h chart is  ma2>ma30>ma60>ma90>ma150

*December 4 2015 
Roger Clarke Arrested*

# the slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising          
# but the slope of ma60 is falling
            # the 12h chart is  ma2>ma30>ma60>ma90>ma150


outside of those two events the chart was in this position for less than 48 hours on May 30 2013; that's it... the only time's we've seen those conditions in the complete history of bitcoin. 



What The $#@! ?????

----------


## presence

http://www.cnet.com/news/key-figure-...nd-police-say/




> *Key figure at illegal-drug site Silk Road nabbed in Thailand, police say*A  54-year-old Canadian man arrested this week served as the "closest  advisor" to Silk Road founder "Dread Pirate Roberts," according to law  enforcement.
> 
> *Internet*December 5, 201512:29 PM PST
> 
> by                                     Edward Moyer                                 @edatnews
> 
> 
> 
> facebook
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

> what are the $#@!ing odds?
> 
> *October 2 2013 
> Ross Ulbricht Arrested*
> http://arstechnica.com/information-t...20-in-3-hours/
> 
> for a brief instance....
> 
>     # the slope of 12h sma 2,30,90, and 150 are rising          
> ...


LMAO

Glad I jumped back in 2380

----------


## kfarnan

The feds don't like competition.

----------


## muh_roads

djthistle,

#FailliotWave

I lol'd IRL on that one.

----------


## fatjohn

> http://www.cnet.com/news/key-figure-...nd-police-say/


I'm eagerly anticipating the movie.

----------


## presence

The marketplace Honey Badger took a 8.8% stoploss assets position last night.

GREEN DRAGON

2>30>60>90>150
Slope of all are rising

This brings us back to 2% over buy and hold since our 233 buy in

----------


## muh_roads

> The marketplace Honey Badger took a 8.8% stoploss assets position last night.
> 
> GREEN DRAGON
> 
> 2>30>60>90>150
> Slope of all are rising


*7:0

*Can I make that 1 yet?* 
*

----------


## presence

indeed

----------


## djthistle01

so are you guys bullish or bearish? and i thought i over complicated things........i feel like comparing to old fractals is tough to do with institutional traders, big money, leverage trading, and so much washing going on compared to years ago.

i will admit i am agnostic right now. the fractal i was trading for months finally broke. basically btc was being run by the same bots that moved the ltc pump so high.

yesterday closed with a gravestone doji, but it did not do anything last time on the way up yo 500.

i would like to see consolidation. however i am open to the mirror pattern being talked about so much. it seems too easy for me, but maybe that is what they want........the path of least resistance.

----------


## fatjohn

> so are you guys bullish or bearish? and i thought i over complicated things........i feel like comparing to old fractals is tough to do with institutional traders, big money, leverage trading, and so much washing going on compared to years ago.
> 
> i will admit i am agnostic right now. the fractal i was trading for months finally broke. basically btc was being run by the same bots that moved the ltc pump so high.
> 
> yesterday closed with a gravestone doji, but it did not do anything last time on the way up yo 500.
> 
> i would like to see consolidation. however i am open to the mirror pattern being talked about so much. it seems too easy for me, but maybe that is what they want........the path of least resistance.


I'll be honest this trading range was a bit tough on me and I lost 5% of my trading account due to a panic sell during the biggest dip, but now that everything seems to have died down I'm pretty bullish. +10% in the next ten hours. A very unlikely break of the lows of the last two days would send it down quite a bit further imo.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

I'm overall bullish now, It seems segregated witness proposal has near universal support, which will increase transaction capacity like 4 fold, and resolve transaction malleability( or some forms, can't remember) and make it possible for "partial" full nodes(reduced storage). So, sometime in 2016 it's very likely we'll see it implemented. 

That has nothing much to do with day trading other than people like me, which stopped buying because of uncertainty over the blocksize debate will feel okay buying again. 

Also in the next version they improved a portion of the code 7 fold that has to do with verifying transactions, which was a bottle neck for miners, and people doing an initial blockchain download. So, user experience should be better, and miner concerns around that portion should be gone.

----------


## presence

http://i.imgur.com/MyF76MU.png

*Wash trade* 


> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
>  				A *wash trade* is a form of market manipulation in which an investor simultaneously sells and buys the same financial instruments. This may be done for a number of reasons:
> 
> 
> To artificially increase trading volume, giving the impression that the instrument is more in demand than it actually is.
> 
> To generate commission fees to brokers in order to compensate them  for something that cannot be openly paid for.

----------


## presence

> i would like to see consolidation. however i am open to the mirror pattern being talked about so much. it seems too easy for me, but maybe that is what they want........the path of least resistance.



I think cappuccino grande is still a very real possibility.  


We're currently holding.  

I'm concerned about how bots and institutions will react to the impending 12h 60/90 bear cross.

off hand... I can't say I know of another instance where they crossed bear while 12h 60 was rising; and all other indications were "green dragon".   I did run that logic against my Honey Badger...

if stock is 4232X BTC since Dec 2011; allowing it to hold the bear cross if 60 is rising reduces ROI to 4018X


here's btce where 60 and 90 look like they will NOT cross bear



here's huobi where it has already happened




A quick algo that buys and sells the 12h 60/90 cross:



```
PAIR = info.primary_pair
def tick():

    if data[PAIR].ma(60) > data[PAIR].ma(90):
        if portfolio.usd > 1:
            buy(PAIR)
    else:
        if portfolio.btc > 1:
            sell(PAIR)
```

[2011-12-17 23:00:00] Found existing storage containing 0 keys.
[2011-12-18 23:00:00]  BUY: 3154.57413249 BTC (at 3.17 USD)
[2012-02-12 23:00:00]  SELL: 3148.26498423 BTC (at 5.398 USD)
[2012-03-27 00:00:00]  BUY: 3861.64519947 BTC (at 4.392 USD)
[2012-04-18 00:00:00]  SELL: 3853.92190907 BTC (at 4.967 USD)
[2012-04-21 12:00:00]  BUY: 3708.10272945 BTC (at 5.152 USD)
[2012-05-26 00:00:00]  SELL: 3700.68652399 BTC (at 5.01 USD)
[2012-06-05 00:00:00]  BUY: 3513.07359146 BTC (at 5.267 USD)
[2012-09-14 12:00:00]  SELL: 3506.04744428 BTC (at 11.398 USD)
[2012-09-24 12:00:00]  BUY: 3407.26227359 BTC (at 11.705 USD)
[2012-10-27 00:00:00]  SELL: 3400.44774904 BTC (at 9.382 USD)
[2012-11-28 23:00:00]  BUY: 2642.25682821 BTC (at 12.05 USD)
[2013-05-10 00:00:00]  SELL: 2636.97231455 BTC (at 108.78 USD)
[2013-05-22 12:00:00]  BUY: 2461.76464394 BTC (at 116.289 USD)
[2013-05-30 12:00:00]  SELL: 2456.84111465 BTC (at 128.68 USD)
[2013-06-09 00:00:00]  BUY: 2924.13366084 BTC (at 107.90 USD)
[2013-06-24 00:00:00]  SELL: 2918.28539352 BTC (at 100.609 USD)
[2013-08-06 12:00:00]  BUY: 3051.41849278 BTC (at 96.027 USD)
[2014-01-01 23:00:00]  SELL: 3045.31565579 BTC (at 741.21 USD)
[2014-01-20 11:00:00]  BUY: 2707.57364521 BTC (at 832.001 USD)
[2014-02-10 11:00:00]  SELL: 2702.15849792 BTC (at 600.00 USD)
[2014-03-28 12:00:00]  BUY: 3269.46004853 BTC (at 494.899 USD)
[2014-04-04 00:00:00]  SELL: 3262.92112843 BTC (at 447.193 USD)
[2014-05-12 12:00:00]  BUY: 3361.12389405 BTC (at 433.259 USD)
[2014-05-18 00:00:00]  SELL: 3354.40164626 BTC (at 440.374 USD)
[2014-05-31 00:00:00]  BUY: 2457.05738495 BTC (at 600.001 USD)
[2014-07-09 00:00:00]  SELL: 2452.14327018 BTC (at 615.85 USD)
[2014-07-21 12:00:00]  BUY: 2456.9815328 BTC (at 613.408 USD)
[2014-08-05 00:00:00]  SELL: 2452.06756973 BTC (at 577.231 USD)
[2014-11-10 23:00:00]  BUY: 3841.52476664 BTC (at 367.713 USD)
[2014-11-18 11:00:00]  SELL: 3833.84171711 BTC (at 374.269 USD)
[2014-11-29 23:00:00]  BUY: 3825.17243616 BTC (at 374.367 USD)
[2014-12-17 11:00:00]  SELL: 3817.52209129 BTC (at 317.74 USD)
[2015-02-21 23:00:00]  BUY: 5079.31653736 BTC (at 238.33 USD)
[2015-04-10 00:00:00]  SELL: 5069.15790429 BTC (at 239.794 USD)
[2015-05-20 00:00:00]  BUY: 5191.53921592 BTC (at 233.673 USD)
[2015-06-10 12:00:00]  SELL: 5181.15613749 BTC (at 230.27 USD)
[2015-06-30 00:00:00]  BUY: 4616.01773297 BTC (at 257.945 USD)
[2015-08-16 00:00:00]  SELL: 4606.7856975 BTC (at 257.569 USD)
[2015-09-29 12:00:00]  BUY: 4997.6453047 BTC (at 236.95 USD)
[2015-12-07 23:00:00] >> *Starting portfolio:*
[2015-12-07 23:00:00] >> [10000.00 USD]
[2015-12-07 23:00:00] >> *Closing portfolio:*
[2015-12-07 23:00:00] >> [0.00000176 USD, 4987.65001409 BTC]
[2015-12-07 23:00:00] >> *Profit:* 1921597.14685848 USD 

*
Selling the cross is 1.58X BTC since Dec 2011; but it has experienced nasty drawdown*


bitfinex which is approaching the cross near parallel has charted 3 12h doji's sideways

----------


## nayjevin

> segregated witness proposal


wut?

oh:




> An Airline only allows you to bring a limited amount of weight and bags onboard a plane for your luggage. They have to be fair and have a consistent policy for their passengers while at the same time recognize real life physical limitations and risks. There is a careful balance to be made where they make their clients happy with allowing them more luggage but at the same time keep the weight considerations reasonable for speed , limiting fuel costs and safety. 
> 
> They previously had a policy of allowing 2 carry on bags weighing 10 Kg in total, but overtime with a growing economy their clients grew more wealthy and needed to travel with more bags because they were flying to Aruba for 2 week vacations, instead of 1 week. The clients were demanding more bags and up to 40 Kg of luggage weight. They had a choice to increase the size of the plane but the accountants and engineers were concerned because the fuel costs would increase and the safety of the planes may be compromised as well with so much weight. The sales department also voiced an objection that larger planes would cut down on their flying routes leading to less possible destinations clients could visit.
> 
> It was known since 2011 a safe and effective solution would be to separate the less critical luggage on a train or boat and the important luggage could go with the client to solve these problems but the airline kept delaying these changes because of distribution and contract problems with the railroad/shipyard companies. Redirecting every railroad or shipping route would be a logistical nightmare. Another concern is passengers didn't want their luggage being mixed or misplaced within the trains/boats as they were keen on some of the new quick luggage check-in and fraud protection processes the airlines were developing and there is no way they could get any of that with dumping their luggage on a train or boat. 
> 
> One day a bright young engineer recommended a novel approach to solve these concerns. He indicated, "Look, we already have shipping agreements with Fedex/DHL and lease out a certain amount of space on their cargo planes that flyout from the same airports. We would have to increase capacity on them but they are efficient and we won't have to reroute all the trains or deal with the nasty railroad companies and our passengers could still bring their important luggage through our new fraud protection and quick check-in processes. Our passengers won't have to pay more and get everything they want. We will have to secure larger contracts with the airfreight companies but ultimately they will benefit from more business and we will benefit from more flight routes and clients." ... followed by an applause from the board of directors and some quick recommendations to roll out the long awaited changes immediately.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1279444.0

----------


## amonasro

> so are you guys bullish or bearish?


Bullish, tentatively. I'm mapping these ongoing trading range fractals and noticing some repeating patterns, specifically how long the price stays in the top or bottom of the range affecting the ultimate outcome of how the price moves out of the range. The range is defined roughly by the local buying or selling climax and its automatic reaction wave, as indicated on the chart with red and green boxes. These are high volume areas so the price repeatedly finds support and resistance there. Wyckoff defined these as congestion areas or trading ranges, where the price prepares for its next move, that is, whether supply or demand gain control. The goal is to figure out if there is more buying (accumulation) or selling (distribution) happening inside of the congestion area. 

As I study TA patterns, I continually notice that U shaped formations are associated with bullish accumulation patterns (inverse H&S, cup & handle) whereas upside down U formations are associated with bearish distribution (H&S tops, crowning formations) patterns. Taking this simple shape and drawing connecting the tops or bottoms of each range give an interesting clue of how much absorption of supply is going on. This is important because the market demand needs to be strong enough to absorb the selling like a sponge before it can move up again. This is also why the longer patterns tend to give way to larger moves--the more selling that's removed, the stronger the resulting rally. Conversely, the more demand removed, the stronger the downmove.

In the red distribution areas, think of the blue dotted lines as opposition to higher prices (supply) that prevents the price from moving higher. Once supply overcomes demand (that is, the sponge is full) the price breaks support and falls. In the green accumulations, they represent a demand area where the supply is actively absorbed at range lows without pushing the price down. Here the sponge is large enough to absorb the selling.

As you can see it's not an exact science, but the more important ranges tend to exhibit these properties. There is good evidence of accumulation in our current range, and its length indicates that a move from here, up or down, should be a significant one.

----------


## djthistle01

PBOC doing capital injections til the 14th, US rate decision on the 15th, down moon is 11th, the astro windows i watch are wide open from the 11th to 14th on the 14th trend reversal. 

so China could pump till 11-14th and then we get some consolidation. with all this from china if price drops then EVERYONE'S assertion that china capital flows effect BTC are bull$#@! and it's all whale games.

wash trades are massive right now hey Pres?!!! OKCOin & Houbi turn off and the other on at the same time. it looks so fake it's not even funny. idiots.

----------


## amonasro

Didn't have long to wait--futures just blasted off.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Potential 1W chart unfolding soon

----------


## amonasro

The support break took me out of my long to lock in profits. I fear that if the price heads back into the larger trading range bears will become bolder and the leveraged longs will be put under immediate pressure. I would expect a counter rally back toward the recent range, but if support becomes resistance there and the market shows more signs of distribution (supply greater than demand) this is bearish.

----------


## djthistle01

> PBOC doing capital injections til the 14th, US rate decision on the 15th, down moon is 11th, the astro windows i watch are wide open from the 11th to 14th on the 14th trend reversal. 
> 
> so China could pump till 11-14th and then we get some consolidation. with all this from china if price drops then EVERYONE'S assertion that china capital flows effect BTC are bull$#@! and it's all whale games.
> 
> wash trades are massive right now hey Pres?!!! OKCOin & Houbi turn off and the other on at the same time. it looks so fake it's not even funny. idiots.


thank you china! that was a nice $35 move.

----------


## djthistle01

> Potential 1W chart unfolding soon




I'll eat my hat if that happens. that would mean a new ATH 6mo before halving. 

the most bullish case (and i do not support it) would be an ABCD pattern with the 500top as C and the 300 low as C and D coming in around 700. 
the most acceptable bull case I see is the mirror pattern, may of 2014 is the middle of the mirror point, which also ends near 700 but in a longer timeline than ABCD
but overall a typical bubble pattern/sine wave for a bit would be nice. but i hate to say it but the stupid mirror pattern is still holding strong.

----------


## zeMan

> I'll eat my hat if that happens. that would mean a new ATH 6mo before halving. 
> 
> the most bullish case (and i do not support it) would be an ABCD pattern with the 500top as C and the 300 low as C and D coming in around 700. 
> the most acceptable bull case I see is the mirror pattern, may of 2014 is the middle of the mirror point, which also ends near 700 but in a longer timeline than ABCD
> but overall a typical bubble pattern/sine wave for a bit would be nice. but i hate to say it but the stupid mirror pattern is still holding strong.


And what will happen to LTC if BTC explodes like this? OMG.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Finex margins are 99% long as a side note.

Sometime later tonight or early tomorrow morning we'll likely have another parade.

----------


## zeMan

> Finex margins are 99% long as a side note.
> 
> Sometime later tonight or early tomorrow morning we'll likely have another parade.



When Finex margins are 99% long, that usually means gigantic dump. Bitcoin likes to go in the direction of maximum pain, and when so many people are long, a dump starting causes huge panic and $hit gets crazy. On the other hand you could be right

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Price is rising

enjoy volume forecasting, we go up.

----------


## amonasro

> When Finex margins are 99% long, that usually means gigantic dump. Bitcoin likes to go in the direction of maximum pain, and when so many people are long, a dump starting causes huge panic and $hit gets crazy. On the other hand you could be right


Right, this weakens the trend. Everyone leveraged to one side creates potential to go the other direction (maximum pain). What happens at tops is that buying power becomes exhausted and longs begin to sell their positions--first slowly and quietly, then quickly once they get worried it won't go higher. If these longs selling outnumber the buyers, the price begins to fall under its own weight. Soon it's a herd of elephants trying to get out at once. Shorts pile in to take advantage. 

I'm not saying that will happen yet, but at some point the scale becomes tipped too far to one side. Finex longs were 29-30 million in July/August before this became a big problem and the market proceeded to roll over into a big crash that shook them all out. At the time, the XT controversy seemed to be the catalyst but in retrospect the news wasn't that terrible and the market was weak so it was perceived as worse than it really was. If it happened today, for example, you might see a price drop but not one so dramatic and scary.

----------


## fatjohn

> Price is rising
> 
> enjoy volume forecasting, we go up.


Volume on China is fake.

That being said $#@! I should have listened.
I got out 1hr prior to lift off at a nice low after having slept in my long. FML, really.

----------


## presence

*Honey Badger Pro is latched on Green Dragon
Projected sell at $544; rising @ about 55 cents an hour.*



omg

----------


## zeMan

Wow. This is nuts. This rising wedge was making me very nervous in my long - but now we have broken upwards.

----------


## kfarnan

https://youtu.be/8iwOQKnQUy0

----------


## amonasro

> *Honey Badger Pro is latched on Green Dragon
> Projected sell at $544; rising @ about 55 cents an hour.*
> 
> omg


I almost forgot what a bull market feels like. That 10 month accumulation.

----------


## presence

> The problem here - and this is something that quite a few people are still struggling to understand - is that *Beijing has telegraphed a much larger devaluation, which means the pressure on the yuan will likely continue.*
>  So yes, as difficult as this is to come to terms with, this is a  scenario where China played the deval card and is looking to  ever-so-gradually move from a 3% deval to an export-boosting  double-digit deval, but in the meantime, Beijing must manage the pace,  which means _supporting_ the yuan via direct interventions. *But  the last week it appears that The IMF's decision to include the Yuan in  the SDR basket has green lit another round of devaluation...*
> 
>  *  *  *
>  And the result is obvious, virtual currencies are surging once again  as the Chinese find another route to get their savings out of the  country...
> 
> 
>  It appears the moves are becoming increasingly aggressive among those wishing to get their capital out, as we detailed here, *it is starting to directly correlate with Yuan movements**...*


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...ay-pos-devices

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Morning breakout potential

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## djthistle01

That PBOC call was ballin'....but i got rinsed out on that dump. what a pisser that was. all in the span of going to work. faaaack.

re LTC: yes i expect serious pampage. not calling a date though. i see a price fractal that should end at around 0.0-19-0.022 when complete.it is a combination of fractal patterns and ickimoku analysis

re Altcoins: seems people are getting ready for alt season, thus btc will be cooling off because the money cycle demands it has to do so for alts to pump.

BTC sentiment is high, but what if 500 was top, and sometime now-ish the bounce, then we wave so alts can pump. consider it at least.

----------


## presence

*We didn't flinch on the flash dump on the 11th; held through.  

Oversold now at 582.09 rising 41 cents an hour.* 

12h sma 2>30>60>90>150; all rising; Green Dragon

*HODL BTC*


regarding LTCBTC, the 15m MACD will come into alignment with BTCUSD when its time to enter.

Using browser window opacity, they're still out of sync:



LTCBTC MACD is up when BTCUSD is down; right now ltcbtc signal is just cancelling btcusd gains.  To enter I want to see that 15m MACD in lockstep for 2-3 hours to know we trend up again.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## djthistle01

is this LTC play short term? Because BTC sells over powering buys(order to order, not candle vs candle volume) and the LTC 1D MACD is still under zero on the histogram. of course it can pump, but a legit bull run seems to need a better technical base imo. maybe btc can make it till the 23rd. but i think it gets rekt on christmas day. i am looking at march 23 as the start of the next bull phase fwiw.

----------


## presence



----------


## djthistle01

if the denominator (usd) is rising and dragging down the numerator (other fx pair) wouldn't stand to reason that will take btc down? with CNY devaluing the other argument is what i have been saying, but the last round of easing is over and in this case we are post US market info (not china) so it wouldn't stand to reason that the US would be pushing things around a bit more than CNY?







>

----------


## presence

USDCNY just opened at 6.4975; that's over the previous day high.

----------


## presence

> so it wouldn't stand to reason that the US would be pushing things around a bit more than CNY?


What's happening here is rapid devaluation of a global basket of currencies vs the USD.  All of them are tanking.

RUB EUR CAD CNY JPY are all about to take a royal $#@!.

last respective

[70, 1.08, 1.35, 6.49, 122]

I'd venture in 6 months we're looking at:

[110, 1.35, 1.65, 7.50, 160]

PBOC currency controls make BTC an easier intermediary to get CNY out of China and into USD right now.   So BTC is getting bloated as a buffer.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

BTC chilling out before breaking out thru this bullish fork?

----------


## amonasro

Rally looking to have stalled a bit; futures couldn't break resistance after settlement last night. Quarterlies made a minor new high but were knocked right back down. Seems the spot markets did not want to follow them up. P&F charts neutral to bearish *(edit: looking much more bullish Saturday night)*. I am covering some of my longs as a precaution to lock in profit and raising my stop on the others. Have a great holiday guys!

----------


## kfarnan

> Rally looking to have stalled a bit; futures couldn't break resistance after settlement last night. Quarterlies made a minor new high but were knocked right back down. Seems the spot markets did not want to follow them up. P&F charts neutral to bearish *(edit: looking much more bullish Saturday night)*. I am covering some of my longs as a precaution to lock in profit and raising my stop on the others. Have a great holiday guys!


What trade platform do you use?

----------


## presence

We did a late night quickie on the 20th, by the time I noticed it... I realize it was better not to share as we were on our way back in



*
+3% BTC*

----------


## FSP-Rebel

It's a professional HFT exchange for digital assets targeting the really large customers like Hedge funds and governments. It's almost ready for launch, and they want to make some buzz. You can support it and get your name on their dedicated backers thank you page while receiving free trade fees. It's not because they need the money, but because they want to spread the word.

https://www.startjoin.com/DAXP

http://www.blockex.com/about/

TECHNOLOGY
The core of the BlockEx Platform is a Pooled Liquidity Exchange with a lightning-quick High-Frequency matching engine, designed for trading Digital Securities; the new breed of asset class born out of Crypto Currencies . Built to meet the needs of traditional banking institutions, governments, retail trading firms and retail traders; engineered and secured by leading banking security experts.

Thoughts? This might be the big one.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system*

So...it seems there is some consensus on the blockchain upgrade.

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pi...er/011865.html




> Our recent and current progress has well positioned the Bitcoin ecosystem
> to handle its current capacity needs. I think the above sets out some
> clear achievable milestones to continue to advance the art in Bitcoin
> capacity while putting us in a good position for further improvement and
> evolution.
> 
> TL;DR:  I propose we work immediately towards the segwit 4MB block
> soft-fork which increases capacity and scalability, and recent speedups
> and incoming relay improvements make segwit a reasonable risk. BIP9
> ...


*Very soon libsecp256k1 will be used for verification, which speeds up initial sync time by 400%-700% and reduces CPU load for all full nodes.
*A segregated witness softfork will be done ASAP (within 3-6 months, probably). This will at least double the effective transaction capacity (ie. it is equal to or better than BIP 102), and at the same time it will provide features important for safely scaling even more in the future.
*There will not be any hardfork for at least the next ~year.
*To pave the way for scalable hardfork max block size increases (which will eventually be necessary), and because it is already dearly needed, improved block/tx broadcasting technology such as weak blocks and IBLT will be implemented, hopefully soon after SegWit.
*The BIPs necessary for efficient deployment of Lightning are already in the pipeline and should be rolled out in 2016. Lightning will allow for almost all of the security, features, and decentralization of Bitcoin transactions while drastically reducing the number of on-blockchain transactions that each individual will need to perform. This is expected to be the real eventual solution to scaling.

----------


## presence

2016 could be a banner year for bitcoinCBS News‎ - 8 hours ago

Record highs predicted for bitcoin in 2016 as new supply halvesReuters‎ - 1 day ago

----------


## presence



----------


## bitman

Hi everyone!

I found out about bitcoin a year ago and found this forum soon after. since then it has been my greatest source of good information and knowledge about trading and bitcoin in general. so first thank u everyone! especially litepresence of course! i am amazed by your willingness to share all the knowledge about bitcoin trading.

i am starting to write an autotrading software and am searching for some historical data to do my backtesting on. for example i am searching for a 1min candle data for the whole year 2015 for LTCUSD on OKcoin.com. any suggestions on where to get historical data of this kind?

----------


## fatjohn

Happy two year anniversary thread!

----------


## presence

> Hi everyone!
> 
> I found out about bitcoin a year ago and found this forum soon after. since then it has been my greatest source of good information and knowledge about trading and bitcoin in general. so first thank u everyone! especially litepresence of course! i am amazed by your willingness to share all the knowledge about bitcoin trading.
> 
> i am starting to write an autotrading software and am searching for some historical data to do my backtesting on. for example i am searching for a 1min candle data for the whole year 2015 for LTCUSD on OKcoin.com. any suggestions on where to get historical data of this kind?


Hi bitman!

Welcome to ronpaulforums.com and the litepresence report 

I trade via cloudbot at tradewave; they take care of the "backend" of bot development.

But if you want your own data search keyword:

"bitcoin csv"

or look here:

http://api.bitcoincharts.com/v1/csv/

http://bfxdata.com/datadownload/


if you find any other good sources please post them

----------


## presence

Bitcoin Won 2015. Apple ... Did NotBloomberg View‎ - 11 hours ago


Bitcoin is one of 2015's biggest winnersCNBC‎ - 1 hour ago

*Anarchists love 2015's best performing asset*CNBC-1 hour ago

It's Been A Challenging Year But _Bitcoin_ Is Still Booming
In-Depth-Fast Company-Dec 28, 2015

----------


## presence

> *Coinbase Tests Bitcoin XT, Gets Removed From Bitcoin.org*  
>  Written by: Justin OConnell
>  2015/12/29 4:00 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://bitcoinist.net/coinbase-tests...d-bitcoin-org/

----------


## presence

> *Jeff Garzik and Gavin Andresen: Bitcoin is Being Hot-Wired for Settlement* by Bitcoin Magazine
> 3:04 PM 
>  Dec 28, 2015- Aa +
> 
>  *Catch Every Story*Recieve a weekly with the top news about Bitcoin and the blockchain. No spam, we promise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles...ing-1451315063

----------


## presence

We're very tight consolidation pinched in the impending 30/60 12h sma bear cross, its going to break up or down soon and big.  

Marketplace Honey Badger is holding BTC.

----------


## Suzu

> the impending 30/60 12h sma bear cross


Please translate to phrasing that a person without specialized knowledge (of the sort needed here) can understand. Thank you.

----------


## presence

> Please translate to phrasing that a person without specialized knowledge (of the sort needed here) can understand. Thank you.


during a 12 hour simple moving average cross of period 30 and period 60 there tends to be a prolonged breakout either up or down.  its an important cluster to watch; so be mindful of your holdings this next 48 hours.

----------


## BillRow

What is the best crypto currency to get involved in and why? 

I'm new to all of this, and want to make a small initial investment. Where do you suggest I start?

Thank you in advance for your insight.

----------


## presence

honey badger pro has moved to fiat based on the impending 30/60 12h sma bear cross



```
[2016-01-03 16:19:00] Emailing the strategy owner: "FIAT TIME"
[2016-01-03 16:19:00] 1451855940
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 424.56 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 424.593 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:21:26] Adjusting price for 2.00 BTC order to 424.39500000 because the market order did not fill fast enough.
[2016-01-03 16:21:47] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 424.395, placed at 2016-01-03 21:21:26.803602.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 424.576 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:22:27] Adjusting price for 2.00 BTC order to 424.37700000 because the market order did not fill fast enough.
[2016-01-03 16:22:47] Adjusting price for 2.00 BTC order to 424.37600000 because the market order did not fill fast enough.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 424.40 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:23:08] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 424.376, placed at 2016-01-03 21:22:47.935314.
[2016-01-03 16:23:27] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 424.400, placed at 2016-01-03 21:23:07.173309.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 424.805 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:24:28] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 424.805, placed at 2016-01-03 21:24:07.708764.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 425.242 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:25:28] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 425.242, placed at 2016-01-03 21:25:08.266815.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 425.996 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:26:29] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 425.996, placed at 2016-01-03 21:26:08.821257.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 426.474 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:27:29] Adjusting price for 2.00 BTC order to 426.40000000 because the market order did not fill fast enough.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 426.475 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:28:30] Order filled for 2.00 BTC at 426.475, placed at 2016-01-03 21:28:09.900887.
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.00 BTC (at 426.61 USD)
[2016-01-03 16:19:00]  SELL: 2.42225674 BTC (at 426.80 USD)
```

----------


## presence

> What is the best crypto currency to get involved in and why? 
> 
> I'm new to all of this, and want to make a small initial investment. Where do you suggest I start?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your insight.



Without a doubt, if you are new to this, stick to bitcoin.  It has a much larger market cap and moves much slower in comparison to other coins. 

alt coin ratios spend MOST of their time LOSING... then if you get aboard at the right time you can go 4X 10X etc.   but you will continually take losses trying to pin down that "right time" without solid botscript.

----------


## Suzu

> during a 12 hour simple moving average cross of period 30 and period 60 there tends to be a prolonged breakout either up or down.  its an important cluster to watch; so be mindful of your holdings this next 48 hours.


Not even halfway to comprehensible for anyone without that specialized knowledge.

----------


## dannno

> Not even halfway to comprehensible for anyone without that specialized knowledge.


If you look at the price at 12 hour intervals starting now, 12 hours ago, 24 hours ago, 36 hours, etc., for the last 30 days and average those values that is the current 12 hour 30 day moving average. You can chart that moving average over time. If today is day 0, and 30 days ago is day 30, then yesterday's value is the average from day 2-31. 2 days ago the moving average was the average of days 3-32, and so on.

If you do the same thing, but go back 60 days that is the 60 day moving average. If the 60 day moving average is the same as the 30 day moving average, then you have hit both the 30 day and 60 day mean and those who study technical analysis have found that breakouts + or - tend to occur during these times.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*As global markets flounder, Bitcoin rockets up 6%*

Bitcoin, the world's most popular digital currency, has skyrocketed despite a floundering global market.

The currency dipped to $312 in November — after jumping more than 70 percent in October to $410 — but has steadily risen to more than $450 in the last two months.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/07/as-gl...kets-up-6.html

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Gemini Co-Founder Sees Exciting Time Ahead As Institutional Investors Enter Bitcoin Market*

“Every day we are onboarding more and more traditional financial institutions who are only willing and able to work with regulated bitcoin exchanges,” he said. “In short, the “institutionalization” of bitcoin trading is most definitely happening as we speak. It will be a very exciting next 12 months as these types of investors enter the market.”

Read more at http://www.econotimes.com/Gemini-Co-...hxwC1WOlAQD.99

----------


## djthistle01

> is this LTC play short term? Because BTC sells over powering buys(order to order, not candle vs candle volume) and the LTC 1D MACD is still under zero on the histogram. of course it can pump, but a legit bull run seems to need a better technical base imo. maybe btc can make it till the 23rd. but i think it gets rekt on christmas day. i am looking at march 23 as the start of the next bull phase fwiw.



boom
boom
and rekt

crystal ball never lies 


PS: i have been doing more research and I still think the late march build up is valid. however I see the later half of july as being pretty strong. next phases include winter 2017, a good chunk of 2018 with that peaking in later jan 2019. 

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...ification_vote

----------


## djthistle01

> What is the best crypto currency to get involved in and why? 
> 
> I'm new to all of this, and want to make a small initial investment. Where do you suggest I start?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your insight.


BTC is king. But putting 10% of your market cap at 10 solid alts is a decent idea imho. Things like DASH, XMR, LTC, DOGE, START, etc etc always pump. Blue chip alts have been moving here and there. I think the mid tier coins are going to all move 5-10xmin in late spring to summer. the weekly charts on coins like MAX, CANN, SDC, etc all have the same set ups. i see test pumps for a bit as people accumulate them we get legit alt pumps later. my 2cents https://twitter.com/djthistle01 <--- i posted some charts recently so you can see some patterns.

----------


## djthistle01

this is still valid: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...ay-resistance/

here is the saturn study: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...oin-vs-Saturn/

we seem to have strong moves coming out of retrograde, current cycle ends on the 25th: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...ry-Retrograde/

oil interests me right now. sitting on a huge support. bought with a tight SL today because $32 is mental. if it breaks then 26 it is.

https://twitter.com/djthistle01
https://www.tradingview.com/u/djthistle01/
http://www.coinstreetnews.com/

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## presence

log(10) scale; hovering at about $10


The cost per transaction of bitcoin is relatively unchanged over time; certainly not "growing out of control".

----------


## muh_roads

> Any live chart as to how many miners are running live on each fork?


Not sure.  It's a debating mess on twitter right now with hard fork vs soft fork debates.

Are you in fiat?  Did you buy sub 2400?

----------


## presence

my algo held through and is still hodling; I was disappointed but I ride on    "Bitcoin is so boring", says Silbert

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## bullhammer

Hey LP! you tried the XBTCe yet?  https://www.xbtce.cc

----------


## presence

I did take a look at it... but I really don't mess with leverage and trade almost entirely via API so I don't visit btce.com much either.

----------


## muh_roads

I really hate sideways chop.

What are peoples thoughts?  It feels like it is entering the distribution phase again.

----------


## fatjohn

> I really hate sideways chop.
> 
> What are peoples thoughts?  It feels like it is entering the distribution phase again.


Major break higher, especially ltc.

----------


## presence

_RED DRAGON_ 

we're in fiat

Z27 Honey Badger Master


Z28 Honey Badger Dev Fork

----------


## FSP-Rebel

If that ETH bubble implodes I'd imagine lots of money will come back into BTC, like soon. I think we go up.

However, if Classic becomes the consensus I could see some early adopters dump for the hell of it.

----------


## Crashland

Doge +100% lol

----------


## kpitcher

> Doge +100% lol


Doge dropped to the 30s end of last week, up to over 100. What a swing

I also noticed MAX has went up 300% + 

Someone's playing a nice pump + dump game

----------


## presence

```
def tick():
    PAIR = info.primary_pair
    
    if (data(interval=43200)[PAIR].ma(30) < data(interval=43200)[PAIR].ma(150)):
            if portfolio.btc >1:
                sell(PAIR)
                
    if (data(interval=43200)[PAIR].ma(30) > data(interval=43200)[PAIR].ma(150)):
            if portfolio.usd >1:
                buy(PAIR)
```



```
[2011-12-19 11:00:00]  BUY: 300.2101471 BTC (at 3.331 USD)
[2012-02-20 23:00:00]  SELL: 299.60972681 BTC (at 4.332 USD)
[2012-04-17 00:00:00]  BUY: 269.85698289 BTC (at 4.80 USD)
[2012-10-27 00:00:00]  SELL: 269.31726892 BTC (at 9.382 USD)
[2012-11-26 11:00:00]  BUY: 205.65006913 BTC (at 12.262 USD)
[2013-06-12 12:00:00]  SELL: 205.23876899 BTC (at 107.301 USD)
[2013-08-14 00:00:00]  BUY: 232.06116104 BTC (at 94.709 USD)
[2014-02-04 11:00:00]  SELL: 231.59703872 BTC (at 801.50 USD)
[2014-05-28 12:00:00]  BUY: 332.58011647 BTC (at 557.02 USD)
[2014-08-02 00:00:00]  SELL: 331.91495624 BTC (at 587.133 USD)
[2014-11-24 23:00:00]  BUY: 511.12308562 BTC (at 380.512 USD)
[2014-12-14 11:00:00]  SELL: 510.10083945 BTC (at 339.80 USD)
[2015-03-08 12:00:00]  BUY: 638.16076614 BTC (at 271.069 USD)
[2015-04-08 00:00:00]  SELL: 636.88444461 BTC (at 248.779 USD)
[2015-06-19 12:00:00]  BUY: 644.88820675 BTC (at 245.20 USD)
[2015-08-20 00:00:00]  SELL: 643.59843034 BTC (at 226.60 USD)
[2015-10-15 00:00:00]  BUY: 577.0207957 BTC (at 252.24 USD)
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> [1000.00 USD]
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> [6.9E-7 USD, 575.86675411 BTC]
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> Profit: 225891.50112003 USD (estimated)
```





selling the 30*150 12h sma cross is a 2X BTC strategy since Dec 2011


This is the 10X150 cross:


```
[2011-12-17 23:00:00]  BUY: 315.45741324 BTC (at 3.17 USD)
[2012-02-16 23:00:00]  SELL: 314.82649841 BTC (at 4.398 USD)
[2012-04-15 00:00:00]  BUY: 286.45060658 BTC (at 4.824 USD)
[2012-10-25 12:00:00]  SELL: 285.87770537 BTC (at 10.80 USD)
[2012-11-19 23:00:00]  BUY: 265.85886622 BTC (at 11.59 USD)
[2013-06-09 00:00:00]  SELL: 265.32714849 BTC (at 107.90 USD)
[2013-08-15 00:00:00]  BUY: 291.54634411 BTC (at 98.00 USD)
[2014-01-31 11:00:00]  SELL: 290.96325142 BTC (at 795.50 USD)
[2014-05-24 12:00:00]  BUY: 451.00479898 BTC (at 512.186 USD)
[2014-07-29 00:00:00]  SELL: 450.10278938 BTC (at 580.513 USD)
[2014-11-14 23:00:00]  BUY: 665.4484151 BTC (at 391.868 USD)
[2014-11-18 11:00:00]  SELL: 664.11751827 BTC (at 374.269 USD)
[2014-11-28 11:00:00]  BUY: 671.90919082 BTC (at 369.189 USD)
[2014-12-09 23:00:00]  SELL: 670.56537244 BTC (at 345.001 USD)
[2015-03-03 23:00:00]  BUY: 841.17442485 BTC (at 274.477 USD)
[2015-04-01 12:00:00]  SELL: 839.492076 BTC (at 239.713 USD)
[2015-04-05 12:00:00]  BUY: 792.60060573 BTC (at 253.387 USD)
[2015-04-10 12:00:00]  SELL: 791.01540452 BTC (at 231.20 USD)
[2015-06-16 12:00:00]  BUY: 727.13037729 BTC (at 251.01 USD)
[2015-08-17 00:00:00]  SELL: 725.67611654 BTC (at 254.815 USD)
[2015-10-11 00:00:00]  BUY: 759.11894314 BTC (at 243.102 USD)
[2016-01-18 23:00:00]  SELL: 757.60070525 BTC (at 384.744 USD)
[2016-01-21 23:00:00]  BUY: 719.21833007 BTC (at 404.466 USD)
[2016-01-26 11:00:00]  SELL: 717.77989341 BTC (at 396.104 USD)
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> Starting portfolio:
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> [1000.00 USD]
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> Closing portfolio:
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> [283746.85592686 USD]
[2016-01-27 11:00:00] >> Profit: 282746.85592686 USD
```

----------


## muh_roads

pres what does the bot cost again?

Also what would it cost if I just wanted to listen in on the email alert group without running my own bot?

----------


## presence

> pres what does the bot cost again?
> 
> Also what would it cost if I just wanted to listen in on the email alert group without running my own bot?


It depends on how much you need to move, my "micro" package is 1/4 btc for 90 days of access that moves up to $5000. 

https://tradewave.net/marketplace/litepresence

I'm still working on a low cost backtest and email only version.   Its really not a ton of lines of code so I'll bump it in priority.

What I'm planning is a signal that is 4 hour time delay, sends emails, does NOT move funds, and can be backtested (but not the most recent 4 hours).

You will have to do a small bitpay transaction to cover maintaince of maybe $20 in btc and you'll get 90 days of access.

----------


## djthistle01

sup yall!

thought i'd drop in and do my biweekly-ish share. 

My call to membership is still short since saturns return on christmas. 

A private program i use has only just flipped to neutral candles on the 1W. after a bubble it tends to print at least 1 bearish candle first so I agree with LP that more downside should happen. please consider the Monthly switched today so some upside until even the 8th is possible. then it is kinda $#@!ty for a couple weeks, or should be.

Other than market structure and astrology I have also mentioned to members not to get all hyped up until the fork BS is resolved. Chinese miners have threatened to dump btc 1 order of magnitude if segwit is implemented. and they have also said they will do a 2MB patch on Core if Core does not do it. Yet Classic is gavin's and Gavin is satoshi's man. so this is a super $#@! show right now.

ETH might have a phaaaaaaaat ass dump here, BTFD!!! I see it making the BTC bubble pattern at this point. and they are running fairly inverse. so again if LP is bearish til mid march then ETH can still run right? right! so again, BTFD!

I say bearish to mid march as a ballpark. he said 266. at 11c/hr of bear pressure 266 as a line is march 12. just math not a prediction. prediction is that a lot of math points to that time frame. so buying near equinox, a trend reversal, will be safe....just like in september.

Altcoins have been money. If you wish to trade alts i recommend finding a trending coin with volume and buy the dips on the 1h staochrsi oversold and ride the waves. seems the safest approach. again, high volume markets only. and polo is killin' it. loads of volume. 


Great chart to show how risk management works in your favor.
https://twitter.com/StockTwits/statu...096896/photo/1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpA1C5DJqhw
I came across this build your own bot with an app a couple months ago. however it relies on TV where as LP is from a dedicated platform. this might be a way small cap people can try a bot and then see if they want to take on the better bot LP runs. so i am not trying to say use this over LP's. i am saying it might be a way for people to get used to automated trading and then take the plunge with HB or what ever on tradewave. a cheap test drive so there is no buyers remorse

----------


## djthistle01



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

red is 0.75*12h_sma(55)

when bitcoin begins to fall; red dragon; 12h 90>60>30 sma's

then the bottom is invariably 0.75* 12h_sma(55); this holds true for all data back to the dawn


12h_sma(55) is currently at $300 falling $1.50 daily.



Hold fiat.

Buy under 300; shoot for $266.

I call this trade "Purgatory"



lime is 0.75*12h_sma(55)

When sma 30/60/90 are crossed bear on the 12h, you should spend very little time holding bitcoin and should only buy if

a) OVERSOLD < 0.75*12h_sma(55) +/- threshold

b) STOPLOSS > 12h_sma(30) +/- threshold


and if you buy oversold you shouldn't be holding much more than 48 hours.


12h sma 30 60 90 150 shown

----------


## muh_roads

> It depends on how much you need to move, my "micro" package is 1/4 btc for 90 days of access that moves up to $5000. 
> 
> https://tradewave.net/marketplace/litepresence
> 
> I'm still working on a low cost backtest and email only version.   Its really not a ton of lines of code so I'll bump it in priority.
> 
> What I'm planning is a signal that is 4 hour time delay, sends emails, does NOT move funds, and can be backtested (but not the most recent 4 hours).
> 
> You will have to do a small bitpay transaction to cover maintaince of maybe $20 in btc and you'll get 90 days of access.


I'd prefer not to go thru bitpay.  Can I pay u directly?

----------


## presence

> I'd prefer not to go thru bitpay.  Can I pay u directly?


no bitpay is what allows me to move a "black box" to you via tradewave.   tradewave takes 30% commission on my sale.

----------


## muh_roads

> no bitpay is what allows me to move a "black box" to you via tradewave.   tradewave takes 30% commission on my sale.


Even for e-mail alerts if I just want that and not the bot?

----------


## presence

> Even for e-mail alerts if I just want that and not the bot?


the bot sends the email alerts

----------


## muh_roads

> the bot sends the email alerts


I must be confused.  I thought you had an email group that was just talking about bot actions and other things.

----------


## presence

> I must be confused.  I thought you had an email group that was just talking about bot actions and other things.


that dissolved, lack of interest, a good while back

in other news we have breakout from the 30 day consolidation

----------


## presence

*Europe wants end to anonymous Bitcoin transactions*The Register-Feb 2, 2016
The  European Commission (EC) wants to end anonymous trading in virtual  currencies in order to help track terror groups's funding. The EC ...

Commonwealth Pushes Member Countries to Declare _Bitcoin_ Legal
CoinDesk-12 hours ago
_Bitcoin_: This Could Be Bad News for _Bitcoin_ Prices
Profit Confidential-2 hours ago
Here's Why Europe Is About To Crack Down On _Bitcoin_ Anonymity
Fortune-Feb 3, 2016
European Commission wants to strip anonymity from _Bitcoin_ _..._
SiliconANGLE (blog)-14 hours ago

----------


## presence

_Bitcoin_ Startup Blockstream Raises *$55 Million* in Funding Round
Highly Cited-Wall Street Journal-Feb 3, 2016

----------


## presence

*Bitcoin Price Breaks Above Resistance*CryptoCoinsNews-3 hours ago
_Bitcoin_ price _followed a gold price move_ that broke above resistance today.

----------


## presence

> The comments come as Russia is moving ahead with plans to prohibit the use of so-called money surrogates, a class of non-government issued monies that include bitcoin. However, questions remain as to what form the ban would take if instituted, and further, how it would actually be enforced.


http://www.coindesk.com/receiving-bi...ntial-advisor/


_
Honey Badger VS Buy and Hold
_*DAY 423*

----------


## kpitcher

> *Europe wants end to anonymous Bitcoin transactions*The Register-Feb 2, 2016
> The  European Commission (EC) wants to end anonymous trading in virtual  currencies in order to help track terror groups's funding. The EC ...
> 
> Commonwealth Pushes Member Countries to Declare _Bitcoin_ Legal
> CoinDesk-12 hours ago
> _Bitcoin_: This Could Be Bad News for _Bitcoin_ Prices
> Profit Confidential-2 hours ago
> Here's Why Europe Is About To Crack Down On _Bitcoin_ Anonymity
> Fortune-Feb 3, 2016
> ...


Sounds like the US rules for exchanges. Since this applies to moving between bitcoin and fiat it's more reason to keep things entirely in bitcoin

----------


## presence

Bitcoin Classic Nodes are moon this past week.


https://coin.dance/nodes

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Node counter
http://xtnodes.com/

----------


## presence

marketplace Honey Badger is still in fiat.   

My gut says we're on precipice of collapse to sub $300.   

My asset stoploss is on 1h sma 20/300

Buying long at sub 0.75*12h_sma(55)

374 last

----------


## muh_roads

> marketplace Honey Badger is still in fiat.   
> 
> My gut says we're on precipice of collapse to sub $300.   
> 
> My asset stoploss is on 1h sma 20/300
> 
> Buying long at sub 0.75*12h_sma(55)
> 
> 374 last


Bitcoin sure has been a choppy $#@! bitch lately.  I've basically given up all Q4 2015 profits back to the market.  I should've just sold on xmas and walked away from this $#@!.  Chinese bots love painting triangles and keeping you guessing.  Chinks love taking peoples coins.



I'm starting to think HODL is the best course of action again soon. Maybe after one more big dump as you are thinking pres.  The upcoming whipsaws are going to majorly screw over & piss many people off over the next 2 years.

The ride to 10K will not be friendly and will make people very sea sick, frustrated, and lose patience.

----------


## djthistle01

Hi All,

As I read it LP is still on the short train. If it id going to happen it should start materializing shortly. See here: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...nese-New-Year/

----------


## presence

> Ryan Kennedy, the head of former Dogecoin exchange Moolah, has been arrested in the United Kingdom on rape charges.
> According to local reports,  Kennedy stands accused of raping five women over the course of eight  years and faces a total of 14 charges, 11 of rape, two of assault by  penetration and one of causing a woman to engage in sexual activity  without consent.
>  The offenses are alleged to have been carried out in  Gloucestershire between late 2007 and last year, all during the time  Kennedy was defrauding people through his various online schemes.
>  This is not the first time Kennedy has appeared in court, with the 28-year-old being arrested in February 2014 over allegations that he stole 3,700 Bitcoins from the now-defunct Bitcoin exchange MintPal.
> *Kennedy, who at the time was going by the name of  Alex Green, attempted to take over MintPal through his company Moolah in  a deal which landed him approximately 35 percent of the company, but  gave Moolah full control of MintPal; after being given access to the  service Kennedy claimed that the site had been hacked and the Bitcoin  stolen, but it was subsequently revealed that Kennedy had not only taken  the Bitcoin himself but was caught red-handed selling it on Local  Bitcoins.*
> 
>  Previous reports have also linked Kennedy as having  been behind Crypto.pm, another startup which is believed to have fleeced  over 500 Bitcoins from investors.
>  Other companies believed to be linked to Kennedy include Citrux.pw, Nuplay.co, Flirble.me, Escrow.pm, Lemon.sx and Nzbx.co.
> *Scumbag* Karma, destiny or fate, following as effect from  cause, may be regarded as a religious concept to many. But if it is  real, this scumbag is finally getting his just deserves, be it too late  for his many victims, both those in his community which he has allegedly  raped, and those in the Bitcoin and broader cryptocurrency community  from whom he has stolen.
> ...


http://siliconangle.com/blog/2016/02...-rape-charges/

----------


## djthistle01

AntPool will start after Chinese New Year Holidays too.

----------


## presence

WATCH YOUR 5m CHART!!!

Heavy gut feeling we're about to break BIG on the 1d... 5m will tell the tale in the next hour or two

----------


## muh_roads

> WATCH YOUR 5m CHART!!!
> 
> Heavy gut feeling we're about to break BIG on the 1d... 5m will tell the tale in the next hour or two


Break DOWN u mean?

I can only read macd and stoch, not sure what u are refering to for the daily.

----------


## presence

could break either way.   point is we are very due for breakout on 1 day we have a huge 30 day triangle coming to point.

Then on 5m candles we get a fractal wave that matches the greater fractal wave on 1d candles.   

It stands to reason... however this 5m wave breaks will define how the greater fractal breaks;  

so atm at finex... I'm saying 372 to 375 is your hold position channel;

on 12h sma analysis, I'm in fiat.  But we've spent the past two days just 2-3 dollars under my buy stoploss assets threshold.

If we breach 1h 20/300 sma I'm buying the bull break.   

on fractal analysis:
If we see over 375 finex on the 5m fractal that would mean a break from the larger 1d fractal for the bull
if we see under 372 finex on hte 5m fracal; 1d fractal will make a big move bear.

----------


## presence

more concisely.... 




I'm watching 30 / 600 sma's on 5m

----------


## muh_roads

It looks like 375 broke.  Retraced and bounced off 375.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger bought the breakout.   We're in again. 

china is far and away leading the push here's 1h 20/300 huobi vs btce:




this is new money bubbling chinese markets

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

HB change its mind?






>

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Things are looking up but we'll see if this is a double T. Prez?

China comes off their week-long+ holiday tomorrow and my guess is they'll be piling in. The current rise has been from the alt-mess'n around that is cashing back into btc. Any Ltc pump coming our way?

----------


## presence

Honey Badger Pro just switched states from Red Dragon to Bounce.   Instantaneous overbought is now at about $520; falling 10 cents an hour.   We're shooting for the moon

----------


## presence

> HB change its mind?


you missed post 4663; we're holding coins at about $380




> Honey Badger bought the breakout.   We're in again.

----------


## muh_roads

> you missed post 4663; we're holding coins at about $380


okay I was just confused by the descending blue line u drew.  Thought maybe you were implying HB made a mistake.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## bullhammer

> you missed post 4663; we're holding coins at about $380


Hey LP, I haven't had any time to chart or trade, on a huge project! As most of the time I'm all in LTC, any chance LTC will catch a bid here? maybe get dragged up by bitcoin? Maybe explode higher eventually?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Hey LP, I haven't had any time to chart or trade, on a huge project! As most of the time I'm all in LTC, any chance LTC will catch a bid here? maybe get dragged up by bitcoin? Maybe explode higher eventually?


Patience is a virtue.

----------


## muh_roads

> Hey LP, I haven't had any time to chart or trade, on a huge project! As most of the time I'm all in LTC, any chance LTC will catch a bid here? maybe get dragged up by bitcoin? Maybe explode higher eventually?


A lot of LTC bagholders are starting to get scared of Ethereum.  LTC feels like a very dead coin with nothing to offer now.

----------


## presence

> Hey LP, I haven't had any time to chart or trade, on a huge project! As most of the time I'm all in LTC, any chance LTC will catch a bid here? maybe get dragged up by bitcoin? Maybe explode higher eventually?


I haven't been messing with ltc in quite a few months... mostly dedicated to my honey badger platform these days

I tend to stoploss back to btc when ltcbtc falls through a level of support established several months ago;   the dec 22 2015 low getting breached this past few days is pretty ominous sign that you'll bleed down to the 700 level

----------


## bullhammer

> I haven't been messing with ltc in quite a few months... mostly dedicated to my honey badger platform these days
> 
> I tend to stoploss back to btc when ltcbtc falls through a level of support established several months ago;   the dec 22 2015 low getting breached this past few days is pretty ominous sign that you'll bleed down to the 700 level


Thanks LP, from a contrarian view, all the above comments/sentiment seems to indicate we may not go any lower, 
+ the daily STOCH RSI (LTC/BTC) looks like a good buy signal to me, time will tell, I've been sitting on LTC for so long now I would hate to sell now only to see it catch fire again!

----------


## presence

> Thanks LP, from a contrarian view, all the above comments/sentiment seems to indicate we may not go any lower, 
> + the daily STOCH RSI (LTC/BTC) looks like a good buy signal to me, time will tell, I've been sitting on LTC for so long now I would hate to sell now only to see it catch fire again!


never any shame in buy, hold, sell when it gets vertical 


h/t fontas

----------


## muh_roads

> Thanks LP, from a contrarian view, all the above comments/sentiment seems to indicate we may not go any lower, 
> + the daily STOCH RSI (LTC/BTC) looks like a good buy signal to me, time will tell, I've been sitting on LTC for so long now I would hate to sell now only to see it catch fire again!


My comment was more related to the buy and hold types hoping for $600 LTC.  I'm sure LTC will still have pumps in its future so I didn't mean to scare you into selling.  A lot of people feel Ethereum is the new Litecoin 2.0...which yeah, probably means ETH is not a good buy right now lol.

----------


## bullhammer

> My comment was more related to the buy and hold types hoping for $600 LTC.  I'm sure LTC will still have pumps in its future so I didn't mean to scare you into selling.  A lot of people feel Ethereum is the new Litecoin 2.0...which yeah, probably means ETH is not a good buy right now lol.


Yes I think 600  is a big stretch, bag holder is such a funny term though, sometimes it takes what some call strong hands to be a bag holder. I'm holding a small bag of Max coins, wonder how many max coins Mr. Keiser has? Id like to ask him why anyone should buy or own Max coins lol

----------


## bullhammer

> never any shame in buy, hold, sell when it gets vertical 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> h/t fontas


looks like we finally got a little pop in LTC! hoping we finally get some higher highs and higher lows

----------


## bullhammer

> My comment was more related to the buy and hold types hoping for $600 LTC.  I'm sure LTC will still have pumps in its future so I didn't mean to scare you into selling.  A lot of people feel Ethereum is the new Litecoin 2.0...which yeah, probably means ETH is not a good buy right now lol.


people holding bags of silver will be rewarded greatly! we are entering a new bull market in metals......IMHO

----------


## presence

> looks like we finally got a little pop in LTC! hoping we finally get some higher highs and higher lows


indeed



so my outlook here becomes... this is a ltc pump... there are three ways to enter; confidently by supporting it now at the 790 market rate...

at the 770 $#@! you litecoin touchback

or on the 810 breakout.


I tend to lean 810 breakout; I'll keep my eye on it today and consider supporting a rally

----------


## bullhammer

> indeed
> 
> 
> 
> so my outlook here becomes... this is a ltc pump... there are three ways to enter; confidently by supporting it now at the 790 market rate...
> 
> at the 770 $#@! you litecoin touchback
> 
> or on the 810 breakout.
> ...


Yes the breakout is probably the conservative approach, 
i still think we are coming up out of the bottom of a large cup and handle pattern in both LTC and BTC

----------


## XTreat

Do any of you guys use Lawnmower or know anyone who does?

----------


## presence

https://medium.com/@bitcoinroundtabl...1ff#.esveh6f3q




> [IMG]https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/fit/c/36/36/1*hMaDZx25nNC5no5UoalByg.png[/IMG]
> 
> Bitcoin Roundtable19 hrs ago2 min read
> 
> 
> 
> *Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus*
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## XTreat

In English please.

----------


## presence

> In English please.


Huobi, Okcoin, and Bitfinex... along with many major players in the industry have just released a memo stating that they agree that block size needs to increase; about 2-4meg; and they've given a timetable and a general "plan of action" between here and there; including a fork around the same time of as the July 2016 halvening


upon announcement price broke out beyond 20 day linear resistance; but then fell back sharply.   its fallback did not go through linear support and seems to have bounced soundly


classic nodes seem to have plateaued at 900; a push past 1000 after the announcement would be a noteworthy demonstration of dissent. 


Honey Badger is still in coins off the 5m fractal break break at 380

----------


## presence

image may extend beyond right edge; right click "view image"

----------


## muh_roads

Just to add to this, they agreed to Core's method of increasing the blocksize.  But that upgrade wouldn't come until July 2017. China wants nothing but Core.  They will continue to ignore Classic.

When Blockstream is ready with the massive Sidechain upgrade for Bitcoin, something called "The Lightning Network" is a Sidechain that will handle all the transactions we'll ever need for a long time.  At least, that is the plan.  I think someone said it would be the equivalent of a 40MB blocksize to start, but Sidechains will handle a lot of the transactions off the main chain, and still behind the security of Bitcoin's network hashrate.

Some complain that Bitcoin Core is now owned by Blockstream.  Some of the Core devs also work for Blockstream.




> Huobi, Okcoin, and Bitfinex... along with many major players in the industry have just released a memo stating that they agree that block size needs to increase; about 2-4meg; and they've given a timetable and a general "plan of action" between here and there; including a fork around the same time of as the July 2016 halvening

----------


## presence

> When Blockstream is ready with the massive Sidechain upgrade for Bitcoin, something called "The Lightning Network" is a Sidechain that will handle all the transactions we'll ever need for a long time.


as I understand lightning will be for retail transactions and theoretically charge a relatively steep 0.5% fee but be instantaneous

----------


## presence

> Yes the breakout is probably the conservative approach, 
> i still think we are coming up out of the bottom of a large cup and handle pattern in both LTC and BTC


Well... I bit.

Balls deep.   00800 last night.  


00805 last



seems I got a bit of buffer on the pullback

----------


## fatjohn

> Major break higher, especially ltc.


The little monkey still agrees.

Although short term dip to high 21's possible.

If low 21's is reached the forecast for moon becomes void

----------


## bullhammer

> Well... I bit.
> 
> Balls deep.   00800 last night.  
> 
> 
> 00805 last
> 
> 
> 
> seems I got a bit of buffer on the pullback


excellent LP! I'm guessing we may see a pop up to o.01 in the next couple days? maybe move back up onto a trend line  above $4USD ++ ??
currently .086

----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn



----------


## FSP-Rebel

LTC buy signal or hold if ya got em.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Why A Hedge Fund Manager Who Made A Killing From Subprime Is Buying Bitcoin*




> Long before "The Big Short's" Michael Burry was a household name for his insight into the upcoming subprime crisis of 2006-2007, there were many others among them John Paulson, Kyle Bass, and Corriente Advisors' Mark Hart. Just like Bass, Mark is another Texas-based hedge fund manager who correctly predicted, and profited from, the subprime crisis. He is also an expert on China, and in fact, just last month in the aftermath of the recent Chinese devaluation which roiled markets, he said that "China should weaken its currency by more than 50 percent this year."


...




> Why bitcoin?
> 
> The same reason we gave back on September 2, 2015 when Bitcoin was trading at $215 in a post titled "China Scrambles To Enforce Capital Controls (Which Is Great News For Bitcoin)" and long before the topic of China's capital controls, and their circumvention, became a routine topic of conversation. As we explained simply, with Chinese capital controls increasingly more strict, the local population, which was nearly $25 trillion in deposits in local banks, will rush to transfer these massive amount of savings offshore, and will end up using bitcoin to do it.


...




> So what is one trade that can be put on to bet on further Chinese devaluation (or outright economic collapse) with limited downside, with unlimited upside, and one which is guaranteed to be profitable if and when the local Chinese depositor herd gets out of Yuan en masse after the next 10%, 20%, 50% or more devaluation and rushes into bitcoin? Simple: do precisely what we said in September, and precisely what Corriente's Mark Hart is saying now: buy bitcoin, because *once the Chinese buying frenzy is unleashed, and $25 trillion in deposits scramble to be packed into a product with a $6.5 billion current market cap* (but only when the price of a bitcoin is $430; the market cap does rise to $25 trillion if every bitcoin is worth $1.6 million) one thing will happen: the price of bitcoin will soar _exponentially_.




http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...buying-bitcoin

----------


## presence

bitcoin you dirty hoe

----------


## bullhammer

> bitcoin you dirty hoe


yes I was wondering if you are still hanging in there LP, I still think the LTC downside is very limited and the upside is limitless! stay the coarse, hold the line.....

----------


## presence

chillin... I don't move often

----------


## muh_roads

> as I understand lightning will be for retail transactions and theoretically charge a relatively steep 0.5% fee but be instantaneous


It is supposed to handle all the micro-transactions up to 40MB with a 1.8-2.0MB buffer to start, but I haven't looked into the fee structure though.

----------


## djthistle01

check your DM's.


@muh_roads looks like I can't send them. just get at me on skype. i am pretty sure you are who I think you are

----------


## presence

> yes I was wondering if you are still hanging  in there LP, I still think the LTC downside is very limited and the  upside is limitless! stay the coarse, hold the line.....


support here does seem rock solid

ima hodl

----------


## presence

https://crediblefriends.com/

----------


## fatjohn

Anybody here likes to way in on ether?

I dont have any :-( 

Could it upstage bitcoin? Is microsoft really behind it in a significant way?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Anybody here likes to way in on ether?
> 
> I dont have any :-( 
> 
> Could it upstage bitcoin? Is microsoft really behind it in a significant way?


It's not a coin or a currency.




> Ethereum is a system of redundantly executed code, a general purpose CPU mirroring the functionality of the worlds most inefficient botnet without parallelization.  Unless blockchain scaling is either huge or infinite, the validation and redundancy of simple transactional data, which Bitcoin attempted to solve in a distributed manner, is far more useful in a cost benefit analysis rather than open ended computational redundancy.  In other words, Bitcoin is an ASIC for a specific purpose, and struggles to fulfill that role even with a streamlined design.  Ethereum, on the other hand, has introduced an objectively less efficient design to try and conquer even more problems.


In any event, "The Accumulator" just moved roughly 1.4m ETH to an exchange (Kraken I think) and that doesn't bode well if ya know what I mean. OTOH, could be a nice boost for BTC.

http://etherscan.io/address/0xd12cd8...6ff825666198bd

----------


## muh_roads

> It's not a coin or a currency.
> 
> 
> 
> In any event, "The Accumulator" just moved roughly 1.4m ETH to an exchange (Kraken I think) and that doesn't bode well if ya know what I mean. OTOH, could be a nice boost for BTC.
> 
> http://etherscan.io/address/0xd12cd8...6ff825666198bd


ETH the token is riding on some false hype because R3CEV (the conglomerate of closed bankchain banks) announced they are using Ethereum technology.  Microsoft announced their service called Azure to help people build blockchains also runs on Ethereum technology.  But they are all going to be making their own token.  They won't use ETH.

Having said that, ETH could still do some pumping.  Whales are consolidating and getting ready to dump on people like they always do with $#@!coins.  Just not sure when.

----------


## muh_roads

> check your DM's.
> 
> 
> @muh_roads looks like I can't send them. just get at me on skype. i am pretty sure you are who I think you are


You said something like this before, but I think you have me confused with someone else.  I accepted your friend request regardless.

----------


## presence

ppc purple as a lead indicator for nmc and ltc ?

----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn

What do you expect this to do pricewise pres? Under varying scenarios, also ether is nearing 1 billion now, a sixth of bitcoin. It makes me uneasy, other coins hardly got over 250 mil.

----------


## muh_roads

> What do you expect this to do pricewise pres? Under varying scenarios, also ether is nearing 1 billion now, a sixth of bitcoin. It makes me uneasy, other coins hardly got over 250 mil.


I read somewhere that the break even price for eth ICO was 0.09 BTC

There are still a ton of ppl under water if that is true.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> I read somewhere that the break even price for eth ICO was 0.09 BTC
> 
> There are still a ton of ppl under water if that is true.


https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/22...he-ether-sale/

That says the initial offering was  2000 ETH per BTC at current price of .03 BTC that's worth 60 BTC.

----------


## muh_roads

> https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/22...he-ether-sale/
> 
> That says the initial offering was  2000 ETH per BTC at current price of .03 BTC that's worth 60 BTC.


Well then.  It looks like most missed the next great crypto bubble.

----------


## presence

_closing price (yellow) shifted left (blue) then projected into the "future" with 4 models_

this is a new type of predictive model I've been working on

the model shows a peak at 430; pullback to 370, then onward to 510.

one of the models skips the vally and shortcuts from the 430 peak sideways at 415 before rising.

I can't say I'm "highly confident" in this new model... but I figured I'd post here and see how things pan out in a few months. 

algorithm and more info here:
https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/plot-the-future-closing-price/890/7

----------


## presence

about 48 hours ago someone racked the book at btcchina on ltcbtc; they're pretty low vol compared to other exchanges... this is maybe a $20k usd buy... but its a noteworthy market signal

----------


## presence

this isn't the most accurate model... but the method of developing an animated predictive model is what I'm working on atm.

----------


## presence

nmc and ppc both pumping past 48 hours.   



the btce alts tend to track one another on a longer scale... 



taking this as a bullish signal... I'm continuing to hodl my 00800 ltcs; 00785 last

----------


## presence

each green tick is 24 hours, this is more work on "predictive models" as mentioned a few posts ago

----------


## presence

> *Bitfinex Ether launch**Posted: March 12, 2016*Bitfinex is pleased to announce upcoming support for trading Ether.  While we are generally wary of adding new digital assets to the platform and believe that Ether’s future as a store of value is quite uncertain, it is, nonetheless, hard to ignore the Ether trading volumes at other exchanges and the many requests we have received from our customers to add Ether trading pairs.  As such, we will begin trading Ether against both US dollar and bitcoin on Monday, March 14th at noon UTC.  Starting immediately, however, customers will be able to deposit Ether into their exchange wallets.
> It is our plan to allow shorting and margin trading on Ether as soon as we are comfortable with the book depth and availability of Ether for lending, but that will depend on the community’s support for Ether trading on our platform as Bitfinex itself is not a market participant in its own markets.  Assuming strong adoption of Ether trading on our platform, we could enable shorting and margin trading in less than a week.  We do not yet know what sort of leverage ratios we will permit on Ether, but given Ether’s substantial volatility relative to bitcoin, we may, in fact, initially allow less leverage than we do on bitcoin.
> In order to encourage market making to help jumpstart our Ether markets, we will be offering introductory pricing on both Ether pairs.  Through the end of March, it will be free to add liquidity (market maker) and 20bps to remove liquidity (market taker).  Trading volumes in Ether during this time will not affect volume tiers for bitcoin and litecoin, but after March, Ether will be part of the existing aggregated volume pricing tiers.
> We are also actively pursuing the addition of Euro trading pairs as well – we will naturally keep the community apprised of any further developments.  Once again, we thank you for your continued support as we strive to deliver the best in cryptocurrency trading.



https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=93

----------


## presence

You can use this add on to remove the blank space left at bitcoinwisdom from adblocker

----------


## presence

btce and huobi have both been offline for 5 hours and counting

----------


## bullhammer

Been doing well with this trade, in @$4
http://www.investing.com/equities/fi...hart?cid=24539

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Too much calm, going up in a large way soon. Maybe tonight starts the trend. China needs to fire first and set the tone. An explosion is going to make some waves either way, either later today or really soon over the next few days. Prepare your...

----------


## muh_roads

> Too much calm, going up in a large way soon. Maybe tonight starts the trend. China needs to fire first and set the tone. An explosion is going to make some waves either way, either later today or really soon over the next few days. Prepare your...


12 hours later it finally moved.  Good call.

----------


## presence

boom.  this is a pivotal break.     We're outside the 5 month pennant.   Bulling!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Interesting forecast:

----------


## presence



----------


## bullhammer

Hey Pres, I'm still long LTC, how about you? getting just a tid bit nervous though, don't want to miss the BTC train if it takes off!

----------


## presence

I'm holding 00800's on $380/btc

----------


## kfarnan

What is holding back?.  HFT bots?

----------


## presence

> What is holding back?.  HFT bots?


collective effort of rational people working the margin to the tip of the pennant; some by bot, some by paper and pencil, some by blind luck... but collectively they see the pennant and they're playing it.  By the precise shape of it... a collective incredible amount of liquidity. 



personally?  pennant is continuation pattern, therefore statistically, odds are break is moon.  margin too thin to worry about, just hodl is the plan.   

12h sma 30/60/90 are "clustered" over 12h sma 150

at slightly higher frequency 12h sma 25/50/75/125 is "green dragon"

that bodes btc moon in my book



ltc shows accumulation in the 0076 to 0082 all year after a huge fall from july 2015 peak; the other btce alts ppc, nmc, and nvc are leading the accumulation; they're actually moving northward instead of sideways and down.  

signs of accumulation in btce alts to me this spells perception that btc is going to go moon... and those in the know take to leverage the btce alts when it does so.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

BITCOIN DAY 1 

*GREEN DRAGON*

12h sma's 30>60>90>150
30,60,150 all rising; 90 sideways

THEREFORE MOON

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

Bitcoin Investment Trust is trading at 70.9 (1/10 coin) vs 450

that's 1.58X premium

----------


## kpitcher

I have some coins I'd sell to them for a 60% markup

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Now is the time to be loaded up w/ Bitcoin (more than anytime in recent memory) - like all in.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

So, I need Bitcoin to hit 10,000.00 to never have to worry about work again. I wouldn't be RICH, but I could make it to death most likely. 14,000 and I'm golden. Make it happen kind sirs. Thank you for your support.

----------


## presence

> Now is the time to be loaded up w/ Bitcoin (more than anytime in recent memory) - like all in.


more on post 4737
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6202324

so pink line shows 1st and 2nd bitcoin primary waves; we're beginning wave 3; plotted log.

dark green line shows ltcbtc on long linear support, with vertical lines when it touches support; plotted % gain.

then you see btce alts; ppcbtc nmcbtc and nvcbtc all in "accumulation" mode

ltcusd is then plotted "area" on the same log scale as btcusd; it shows bull pennant since the last time ltcbtc touched long support. 

I take all of this as very bullish bitcoin, moreso bullish litecoin; albeit ltc is always a bit more of gamble

----------


## presence

http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/04/24/an...-stake-system/




> *Andreas Antonopoulos Talks Bitcoin’s Hybrid Proof-of-Stake and Design Challenges*
> 
>                               Posted on 2:00 pm April 24, 2016 Author JP BuntinxCategories Bitcoin, News 
> 
>                                   38
> 
> 
> 
> * 
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

#1 Looks like you Litecoiners might be about to catch a break.

#2 Bitcoin will soon hit an ATH in terms of marketcap if the price reaches $900 or so, not $1200.  Inflation?

#3 I forget #3 I wanted to mention.  Exciting times are back.

----------


## muh_roads

> So, I need Bitcoin to hit 10,000.00 to never have to worry about work again. I wouldn't be RICH, but I could make it to death most likely. 14,000 and I'm golden. Make it happen kind sirs. Thank you for your support.


Winklevoss believes in 30K-40K.  Bits (1m per) will be traded by then rather than whole BTC.  4 cents per bit.

I want $10 per bit.

----------


## presence

Bitstamp! 470

----------


## presence



----------


## FSP-Rebel

The move recently in LTC/BTC shows a traditional bull market in BTC going forward. Buy sign for all on the sidelines. Seems like every other day we're getting new highs in BTC. LTC supercharged in the last two days.

----------


## presence

> #1 Looks like you Litecoiners might be about to catch a break.
> 
> #2 Bitcoin will soon hit an ATH in terms of marketcap if the price reaches $900 or so, not $1200.  Inflation?
> 
> #3 I forget #3 I wanted to mention.  Exciting times are back.



I'm break even on my 00800's ltc's; 00801 last that ride to 00735 was a bitch; I'm last into crypto at $380

hodling 

interesting note on marketcap / $900

actually max cap was 12.5 Billion and we have 15.5 million coins now

so

12500/15.5 = $800

indeed exciting times!

----------


## presence

yesterday was all time high LTCCNY volume at huobi and okcoin

----------


## presence

00820 !!

suddenly panic hodling 00800's down to 00735 and back is looking like a very good idea 

2.5% + and rising after 9% drawdown

----------


## fatjohn

Weee! My bot has been long this entire run. Quick question, can americans trade on okcoin.cn ?

----------


## kfarnan

> Weee! My bot has been long this entire run. Quick question, can americans trade on okcoin.cn ?


. Yep

----------


## presence

> Weee! My bot has been long this entire run. Quick question, can americans trade on okcoin.cn ?


Be warned, it is my experience that in times of high volatility US users at okcoin.cn find site and api connectivity difficult.

----------


## fatjohn

> Be warned, it is my experience that in times of high volatility US users at okcoin.cn find site and api connectivity difficult.


Ok but you are sure they can? I have people asking for refunds because they say the cant use it on chinese exchanges.

----------


## presence

refunds on what?

----------


## presence

hmm seems not



> [–]OKCoin_Bruce 1 point 3 months ago 
> Right  now we can't accept both US citizens and residents to register on  okcoin.com nor okcoin.cn due to regulatory reasons. Sorry for your  inconvenience.


https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMark..._a_us_citizen/

----------


## presence

maybe finally tea time?

----------


## fatjohn

> refunds on what?


Ended up coding a couple of bots on cryptotrader

----------


## presence

btce just added dash and ether

dash currently trades at 0.01310, ether 0.01655

----------


## presence

> Be warned, it is my experience that in times of high volatility US users at okcoin.cn find site and api connectivity difficult.


case in point this morning... swiss cheese 1m charts at okcoin while price plummets

1000 btc/min all day every day... until price moves suddenly... then poof no connectivity



 


$#@! chinese exchanges

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## fatjohn

The action in ltc was totally weird. I really thought this was significant this breakout... Guess its waiting for the btc breakout then...

----------


## presence

cup
handle
breakout
pullback

...then target

----------


## bullhammer

> The action in ltc was totally weird. I really thought this was significant this breakout... Guess its waiting for the btc breakout then...


guess its working its way further down the triangle?

----------


## presence

may extend off right side of screen; right click "view image"

----------


## presence

OMG LITECOIN ON COINBASE


https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/stat...31564852699136

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

ltc 00930 rising

btc $470 - Y3200

----------


## presence

I expect ltc resistance somewhere $5.75 to 6.25 with pull back to the high 4's before moving upward.    Excellent "first sell off" opportunity in the works.

----------


## bullhammer

> I expect ltc resistance somewhere $5.75 to 6.25 with pull back to the high 4's before moving upward.    Excellent "first sell off" opportunity in the works.


 Hey LP! LTC!!! its about time eh! I've been holding all this time ! Finally some workable set ups!

----------


## fatjohn

It's happening! Ltc not outperforming btc as i expected though, but hey, its ok.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Good grief, I figured that everyone and their brother would be up in here considering the price movements lately.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger Master has moved to fiat.

We held 109 days since $380

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/the-...u=litepresence

----------


## presence



----------


## fatjohn

I'm thorn. On the one hand the retreat from 3950 to 3650 yesterday seems to show that some weak hands have bought into this rally. On the other hand a 30 percent rise does not match the expectations i was having. I was thinking to hit the 700 dollar mark at least.

----------


## presence

> I'm thorn. On the one hand the retreat from 3950 to 3650 yesterday seems to show that some weak hands have bought into this rally. On the other hand a 30 percent rise does not match the expectations i was having. I was thinking to hit the 700 dollar mark at least.


I don't disagree that there is more meat on this bone.

forecast re-entry given current state of the algo is about 48 hours into the future; simply too much too fast.

----------


## kfarnan

> Good grief, I figured that everyone and their brother would be up in here considering the price movements lately.


Bread and circus distracts the sheep..  Turn the TV off.

----------


## fatjohn

> I don't disagree that there is more meat on this bone.
> 
> forecast re-entry given current state of the algo is about 48 hours into the future; simply too much too fast.


Ah good to hear. My own algo that I am using (which almost trades on average once a day) has been long since 2989 cny three to four days ago. I am expecting it to sell any minute now if no new uptrend materializes soon.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## fatjohn

Not the outstanding supply will halve, just the additional mining supply will halve in its rate of creation. 

http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com

What it will do with the price, no one knows, but its a bit like the fed thightening with 470 base points. On the other hand you could also look at it this way, today people are mining bitcoin at almost 2 million per day. Probably most of these are eventually being sold in the market to pay the bills denominated in usd and eur and cny for the mining costs.

This will drop to only 1 million leading to 1 million/day less hitting the market. Is that a lot? Well according to this: https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/volume/24-hour/

About 70 million usd is being traded between btc and fiat money on all exchanges excluding the chinese (huobi, okcoin, btcchina). These are excluded because their volume is debatable. However for the sake of argument we'll say that their true combined volume is 130 million usd.  This would give us a worldwide volume of 200 million per day. 100 million buy orders, 100 million sell orders. Now you take 1 million sell orders away. I'd say thats a lot, but not yuge.

----------


## presence

miners get coins and sell them to pay for mining expenses; electricity/hardware etc.  

much of the "downpressure" on price is the action of miners collectively and constantly selling coins to pay for expenses.

when the halvening comes miners will still do just as much work, but the reward they get for their work... in coins, will be half. 

so miners as a collective and significant "downpressure" on the market will be reduced by half.  

If miners were mining 1000 bitcoin per month... now they only get 500; no matter how much effort they put in (which effects distribution of the award amongst miners but not total output) the reward next month (and into the future) is half the reward this month.

----------


## Suzu

> miners get coins and sell them to pay for mining expenses; electricity/hardware etc.  
> 
> much of the "downpressure" on price is the action of miners collectively and constantly selling coins to pay for expenses.
> 
> when the halvening comes miners will still do just as much work, but the reward they get for their work... in coins, will be half. 
> 
> so miners as a collective and significant "downpressure" on the market will be reduced by half.  
> 
> If miners were mining 1000 bitcoin per month... now they only get 500; no matter how much effort they put in (which effects distribution of the award amongst miners but not total output) the reward next month (and into the future) is half the reward this month.


By "downpressure" do you mean that the bitcoins produced (and sold) by miners causes the price (in USD) of bitcoin to be held down? If so, how much of an effect will the halving have on the price?

----------


## presence

> By "downpressure" do you mean that the bitcoins produced (and sold) by miners causes the price (in USD) of bitcoin to be held down?


yes



> If so, how much of an effect will the halving have on the price?



to some degree the rise in price we've seen in the past 30 days is "speculation" on what effect it will have on price.


all I can say is I am VERY bullish on btcusd right here on a monthly scale for quantitative reasons. 


my algo has been holding all but about 65 hours since Feb 10th.  

Mode just switched back to green dragon; usually when it makes that call anew... you're holding through another 60 day bull run.

----------


## presence



----------


## bullhammer

> 


Stairway to heaven?

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> But is there any reason to expect it could actually happen?


I think Bitcoin could go higher than 5000.00 if we'd ever get the transaction capacity issue resolved. 

There Tons of uses for bitcoin that aren't being exploited at the moment because of the 1MB limit and/or lack of a high speed secondary layer. 

Like imagine, when we get a standard for 2nd layer transaction like the proposed lightning network that would allow near instant transfers back and forth for nearly no fee . Well, you could have a game for example, to where everytime you kill a member of the opposing team you would get x amount of bitcoin based on their level, or whatever. So, you might have a 100 micro transactions in a hour as you kill opponents or they kill you. You could start doing realtime stock trading if you wanted to, etc... When you are done, you simply would settle back to the "official" level 1 block chain. 

Even without that secondary layer, just expanding the 1MB limit would eliminate the fear of a transaction backlog forming and hindering bitcoins adoption due to aggravation with long delays in receiving confirms for transfers. At Present we often have 10's of blocks in a row all completely full of transactions, this is unacceptable situation imo, and it's doubtful it encourages adoption. 

In Short Bitcoin in its present state is pretty hobbled, these things likely will be corrected, so Bitcoin will eventually be more "capable" at some point in the future, and in theory that should mean more appealing to additional users, and more buyers and/or holders means price pressure.

----------


## Suzu

> the 1MB limit and/or lack of a high speed secondary layer.


I can't even begin to imagine what is meant by the above statement....




> Like imagine, when we get a standard for 2nd layer transaction like the proposed lightning network that would allow near instant transfers back and forth for nearly no fee .


I thought Bitcoin could already be transfered nearly instantly with nearly no fee....




> Well, you could have a game for example, to where everytime you kill a member of the opposing team you would get x amount of bitcoin based on their level, or whatever. So, you might have a 100 micro transactions in a hour as you kill opponents or they kill you.


Why would you want to have a mess of micro-transactions in a short period of time instead of just one -- at the end, for all of your winnings in that round of the game?




> You could start doing realtime stock trading if you wanted to, etc...


For stock trading, I don't think the transactions would be so tiny... but I suppose they would need to be fast.




> When you are done, you simply would settle back to the "official" level 1 block chain.


Now you've gone so far over my head that I don't even know how to ask for clarification of that statement!




> Bitcoin in its present state is pretty hobbled, these things likely will be corrected, so Bitcoin will eventually be more "capable" at some point in the future, and in theory that should mean more appealing to additional users, and more buyers and/or holders means price pressure.


How far into the future are we looking at here?

What I don't understand is this: Suppose I have a bitcoin payment method that I want to use in buying something on a website or in a store where bitcoin is accepted. You seem to be saying that the "approval" of the sale would be greatly delayed due to this "backlog" of transactions, and the merchant would have to withhold delivery of the product/service until the payment was confirmed -- unlike using a credit card, where approval is nearly instantaneous. Silly me thought it was easier, faster and cheaper to pay with bitcoin. But you seem to be saying that's incorrect; that it takes much longer and costs more than using a credit card.

----------


## muh_roads

> I think Bitcoin could go higher than 5000.00 if we'd ever get the transaction capacity issue resolved. 
> 
> There Tons of uses for bitcoin that aren't being exploited at the moment because of the 1MB limit and/or lack of a high speed secondary layer. 
> 
> Like imagine, when we get a standard for 2nd layer transaction like the proposed lightning network that would allow near instant transfers back and forth for nearly no fee . Well, you could have a game for example, to where everytime you kill a member of the opposing team you would get x amount of bitcoin based on their level, or whatever. So, you might have a 100 micro transactions in a hour as you kill opponents or they kill you. You could start doing realtime stock trading if you wanted to, etc... When you are done, you simply would settle back to the "official" level 1 block chain. 
> 
> Even without that secondary layer, just expanding the 1MB limit would eliminate the fear of a transaction backlog forming and hindering bitcoins adoption due to aggravation with long delays in receiving confirms for transfers. At Present we often have 10's of blocks in a row all completely full of transactions, this is unacceptable situation imo, and it's doubtful it encourages adoption. 
> 
> In Short Bitcoin in its present state is pretty hobbled, these things likely will be corrected, so Bitcoin will eventually be more "capable" at some point in the future, and in theory that should mean more appealing to additional users, and more buyers and/or holders means price pressure.


I think LN and Segwit are already live as sidechains aren't they?  Transaction capacity should not be an issue.

----------


## kfarnan

> I can't even begin to imagine what is meant by the above statement....
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Bitcoin could already be transfered nearly instantly with nearly no fee....
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you want to have a mess of micro-transactions in a short period of time instead of just one -- at the end, for all of your winnings in that round of the game?
> ...


There will be fees in the future, to pay the miners. It takes power to support the blockchain.  Transactions can be verified  quickly by 1 confirmations for smalls.  Is it better than the CC banking cartels? Yes.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> I can't even begin to imagine what is meant by the above statement....
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Bitcoin could already be transfered nearly instantly with nearly no fee....
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you want to have a mess of micro-transactions in a short period of time instead of just one -- at the end, for all of your winnings in that round of the game?
> ...


Bitcoin as is only allows a block to be found on average every 10 minutes. So, the actual settlement is very rarely "fast" it generally takes a block or two to get officially and forever into a block. Online merchants can see your "intent" to send a transaction that is setting in the memory pool, and they typically will inform you that they see that and call it paid, but it's not actually settled until it's in a block. Now if you include an adequate fee it'll eventually get into a block and it doesn't make any difference to an online merchant like newegg if that takes 30 minutes to happen, as they aren't going to ship that fast anyway. But it's not instant. 

Now there are proposals and "testing" of add on layers that allow you to send your bitcoins to a secondary network and once in that secondary network which is tied to the regular network would allow trully near instant transactions as in like milliseconds possibly. That network can do tons of transactions, it's not a "permanent" network like bitcoin in that all the bitcoin on the "lightning" network eventually settle back to the level 1 network you are currently using. Essentially it just allows a Very fast way of making a transaction, and allows for a huge number of transactions at little cost. The reasoning for a level 2 network to allow that is because the level 1 bitcoin network records every transaction forever, and for many transactions you don't really need that level of detail, like buying a cup of coffee, or paying .00001 in a video game. The thing is all the bitcoins sent to the lightning network eventually settle back as one lump transaction into the level 1 normal blockchain. 

The problem currently is that the level 1 bitcoin which is what is bitcoin today only allows 1MB worth of bitcoin  transactions every 10 minutes, and those blocks are getting very full more frequently, so eventually what will happen if more capacity isn't added is there will be longer delays waiting for the first confirmation, and fees will rise. There are plans to increase the blocksize and / or transaction capacity in a couple of ways that should eventually get integrated, however, it is taking them a long time to do it.

Worse case scenario is probably long delays in confirm times, and a less inviting experience, until capacity is increased.

Also to add your credit card doesn't "actually" settle instantly, the bank just approves your transaction, but no funds are actually bank to bank transferred at that instant, they do that in bulk at intervals. Same with ordering on newegg with bitcoin, it's essentially a done deal "instantly" UNLESS something goes crazy and your transaction is not included in a block, and that would really only happen if you fee was to low. Most wallets handle calculating a fee for you, but there is no guarantee it will be adequate 100%, so it's possible you could send a transaction and it just doesn't ever actually get transferred, eventually that "intention" to make a transaction should timeout and your bitcoins would be returned. Again, that's Very very rare, and even more so if you have an adequate fee, however "full" blocks and increased demand on the transaction space as is currently happening will invariably cause that to happen more often, until transaction capacity is increased.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> I think LN and Segwit are already live as sidechains aren't they?  Transaction capacity should not be an issue.


They are on the testnet, I'm not sure when they'll get integrated.

----------


## bullhammer

there is always Litecoin! Also Etherium could really take off, BTC seems to be promoted by a lot of volunteers who sometimes say things that hurt BTC, plus there is no one to go after if things go wrong, with Etherium, there are a group of Developers who promote it and are accountable to it.

----------


## muh_roads

> They are on the testnet, I'm not sure when they'll get integrated.


I have no problems sending coins, I don't know what people are barking about.  Seems like FUD to me.

Of course I send a priority fee with everything I do.  It's, like, 14 cents...

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> I have no problems sending coins, I don't know what people are barking about.  Seems like FUD to me.
> 
> Of course I send a priority fee with everything I do.  It's, like, 14 cents...


Well, considering like .01% of the world uses bitcoin currently, I think we probably will need more space if we want bitcoin to be more than 1st world nerd money.

----------


## XTreat

Anyone know why LTC hashrate decreased by about 20%

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## dannno

> What do you mean by "popped" in this context?


Not sure, but looks like volume is dropping.

----------


## Suzu

> Not sure, but looks like volume is dropping.


And what would the upshot of that be?

----------


## dannno

> And what would the upshot of that be?


I think pop may mean burst like balloon, price may go down a bit or stagnate, it's been going up for a while.

----------


## presence

I took it to mean we just bulled out of the day's channel in china

----------


## bitman

exactly right, presence 
might have called a little premature thou...

----------


## Suzu

> ...bulled out of the day's channel...


Gosh I wish you wouldn't write in code!

----------


## dannno

> Gosh I wish you wouldn't write in code!


Clearly you aren't the only one 

A channel points toward certain prices, if it moves out of a channel in a positive direction that would be an indicator it might go higher, a new channel will be forming.

----------


## presence

lol

so we were between those two white lines all day (the day's channel); then price "popped" outside of the lines to the up side (bulled)

----------


## Suzu

> lol
> 
> so we were between those two white lines all day (the day's channel); then price "popped" outside of the lines to the up side (bulled)


Thank you for explaining what the white lines mean. Now, how about doing the same for the red, green and brown ones?

----------


## presence

> Thank you for explaining what the white lines mean. Now, how about doing the same for the red, green and brown ones?


well there is a squiggly white line and a squiggly orange/brown line

the squiggly white is the running simple moving average for the most recent 7 candles; so its value at any given point in time is the closing price, plus the previous 6 closing prices; divided by 7

the squiggly orange/brown is the thirty period simple moving average; same concept but the past 30 candles of closing price data for each calculation. 

then there are the candles

the candles have an upper wick which extends to the highest price for that candle period; the lower wick to the lowest price for the candle period
then the candle has a main body;  the top and bottom of which are the open and close price for that period; if the candle is red close is on bottom; if green close is on top

then there are the two squiggly lines to the right; green and red; they represent "depth of market"; which is a graphical representation of the bids and asks currently on the order book times their respective cumulative volumes; where bids and asks are y axis; cumulative volume is x axis

the bars at the bottom represent volume; and again they are color coded red if close is less than open; else green

the small yellow triangle is the last price paid

----------


## presence

> exactly right, presence 
> might have called a little premature thou...


seems right on time

----------


## presence

trading volume expressed in equal terms (CNY)

BTCCNY at okcoin:


LTCCNY at okcoin






In CNY terms; okcoin is trading litecoin just as hard as its trading bitcoin; the same is true at huobi.

The chinese are crazy for ltc!

----------


## Suzu

> the small yellow triangle is the last price paid


I've got my strongest reading glasses on and cannot see a small yellow triangle.

BTW do those four-digit numbers indicate prices? If so, what kind of currency is it?

----------


## presence

> I've got my strongest reading glasses on and cannot see a small yellow triangle.







> BTW do those four-digit numbers indicate prices? If so, what kind of currency is it?


CNY; "offshore chinese yuan"

for current exchange rate to usd, divide by

https://www.google.com/#q=usdcny&gws_rd=ssl

----------


## Suzu

> CNY; "offshore chinese yuan"
> 
> for current exchange rate to usd, divide by
> 
> https://www.google.com/#q=usdcny&gws_rd=ssl


The outcome, for me, of following your guidance here, is that Bitcoin is currently worth about $5.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> The outcome, for me, of following your guidance here, is that Bitcoin is currently worth about $5.


That's litecoin.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

As for bitcoin, next stop $630ish.

----------


## presence

> The outcome, for me, of following your guidance here, is that Bitcoin is currently worth about $5.


lol

that's a litecoin chart; yes its trading for over $5 in china.

----------


## bitman

ah, BTC still at the same place 
feels like china wants to do a small correction before a new launch, hmmm?

hard to evaluate who is stronger thou, coz of the fake chinese volume. how do u evaluate chinese volume, presence?
it definitely seems stronger than the USD denominated exchanges, but there are also the OKcoin futures, there is much volume there also, and it follows the chinese exchanges.

----------


## presence

> hard to evaluate who is stronger thou, coz of the fake chinese volume. how do u evaluate chinese volume, presence?


Its hard to say... but I suspect, and academic literature alludes zero-fee and/or maker-taker policies 2X to 10X trading volume vs 0.1% to 0.2% flat fee exchanges. 


here are a few articles of note; the colliard model is heavily cited

scholarly
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~jhasbrou...y_credits2.pdf
http://www.parisschoolofeconomics.eu...LLIARD-PSE.pdf 

.gov
https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/emsac/...-exchanges.pdf

opinion
http://www.pionline.com/article/2015...-taker-rebates

----------


## presence

This the LTCBTC orderbook at btce visualized as a 

*"Depth of Market Heatmap"* 
code open source at tradewave
https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/dept...tour-map/956/7



so here you're looking at yellow close line center and bands of asks and buys at 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, and 5% from center; each with volume relative to the total book expressed as width approaching center.

superimposed on the center is the ((highest bid+lowest ask)/2) +/- current relative 1h volume


this is an alternative plotting method; where instead of set percentages from center you're looking at steps of orderbook pressure equal to 1/10th of the total book.:

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Looks like the stop losses got triggered in the order books and became self-fulfilling. Wonder if the Coinbase critters dumped to scoop up these cheaper coins or aren't happy w/ the recent protocol 'agreement'.

----------


## fatjohn

Testing the bottom of the trading range today. If it breaks 3750 to the downside the bull is dead.

The monkey has spoken.

----------


## kfarnan

> Looks like the stop losses got triggered in the order books and became self-fulfilling. Wonder if the Coinbase critters dumped to scoop up these cheaper coins or aren't happy w/ the recent protocol 'agreement'.



Who's recent protocol agreement?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Who's recent protocol agreement?


The compromise that was reached at the recent Hong Kong conference between the different factions.

----------


## kfarnan

> The compromise that was reached at the recent Hong Kong conference between the different factions.


Who were the factions.   Seems the miners should have the final word.  There would be no btc network without the miners.

----------


## bitman

> Its hard to say... but I suspect, and academic literature alludes zero-fee and/or maker-taker policies 2X to 10X trading volume vs 0.1% to 0.2% flat fee exchanges. 
> 
> 
> here are a few articles of note; the colliard model is heavily cited
> 
> scholarly
> http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~jhasbrou...y_credits2.pdf
> http://www.parisschoolofeconomics.eu...LLIARD-PSE.pdf 
> 
> ...


around 8x ± 2x seems about right, china has more volume than all the $ exchanges combined for sure. dont know about futures thou, at the moment i have a feeling they dont have much will of their own and follow china. tnx for the literature, but its way over my head at the moment

----------


## bullhammer

> lol
> 
> so we were between those two white lines all day (the day's channel); then price "popped" outside of the lines to the up side (bulled)


   Hey LP! glad to see people in here again! And glad to see you helping people along. What do you think about ETH? a lot of people in BTC-e sour on it? looks like the AG AND AU Bull train is about to leave the station !!!

----------


## muh_roads

> Who were the factions.   Seems the miners should have the final word.  There would be no btc network without the miners.


I think he means between Core and Classic.  FSP, got more info?

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## kfarnan

> 


What chart is that.  Interpolation of data?

----------


## presence

looks like 3day candles Jan 2013 to current @ stamp

----------


## muh_roads

> 


If this can clear the 600-700 range (the paypal / ebay news bounce of  2014 where some will want to exit), then the almighty barrier is near  the ATH range.

If we can clear the ATH, it is no man's land up there.  A global media news bubble again.  It could run to 4K+.

All dumps are being absorbed and then some.  And now with the emission rate cutting in half in less than 30 days...this is looking sexy.

**squeezes nipples**

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

fap, fap, fap...

----------


## kfarnan

that's a huge candle.  Something awoke.. no pun. to the Mooooooooonnnnn!

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Bitcoin Spikes Above $600 - 2 Year Highs - On Sudden Massive Chinese Buying*

Once again, on a Saturday night (US time), Sunday morning (China) a sudden burst of buying pressure in Bitcoin, driven by Chinese buyers, has spiked the virtual currency higher on dramatic volume. With Bitcoin now trading at its highest level since May 2014 (in Yuan), and up 250% since we first suggested this an outlet for desperate-to-leave capital outflows in September, we note that the 'arbitrage' of over 150 Yuan points to massively more demand from Chinese buyers for now.

Another weekend buying-splosion in Bitcoin by The Chinese...

More...http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...chinese-buying

----------


## kpitcher

ha, zerohedge thinks bitcoin is only worth 3 billion market cap in that article

----------


## fatjohn

Zerohedge has a lot of things wrong there. Only okcoin being the 90% of the volume not huobi, not really making the distinction that all nationalities can trade on those platforms etc. but ok it is interesting these moves take place over the weekend. Will the cny again devalue tomorrow?

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

673 now. I'm making so much money, I now know what it feels like to be a politician or Federal Government Employee.

----------


## Suzu

> If we can clear the ATH


There you go again with another mysterious acronym....

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> There you go again with another mysterious acronym....


All Time High

----------


## presence

> There you go again with another mysterious acronym....


have you held through?

----------


## Suzu

> have you held through?


I don't get this bitcoin shorthand-speak. Held what through where?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> I don't get this bitcoin shorthand-speak. Held what through where?


I think he meant, have you held your bitcoins from when you bought/received them when they were lower in value til now when all the fun is happening as was thought possible upon the dawning of this epic halving of the protocol? - Which happens this July and once every four years which cuts the addition of bitcoin supply on the market (by half) thus sparking the speculation that we're seeing in the price of it worldwide via normal or additional demand.

----------


## muh_roads

> 673 now. I'm making so much money, I now know what it feels like to be a politician or Federal Government Employee.


Do you trade margin?

The top of this next bubble is going to make everyone holding feel like a central banker.

----------


## muh_roads

> I don't get this bitcoin shorthand-speak. Held what through where?


He's asking if you still hold bitcoins?  We just went thru a lot of up and down chop over the last 6 months.

EDIT:  Also if you don't understand something you should google it.  "ATH meaning" turns up your answer pretty fast.

https://www.google.com/search?safe=o....0.XXiQ-nwqT9s

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> Do you trade margin?
> 
> The top of this next bubble is going to make everyone holding feel like a central banker.


I was being hyperbolic a bit, I don't even have a 100 bitcoins, and just holding. I'm not trading.

What's weird is Ethereum holding it's BTC ratio pretty well despite the "surge" in BTC.

----------


## Suzu

> I think he meant, have you held your bitcoins from when you bought/received them when they were lower in value til now when all the fun is happening as was thought possible upon the dawning of this epic halving of the protocol? - Which happens this July and once every four years which cuts the addition of bitcoin supply on the market (by half) thus sparking the speculation that we're seeing in the price of it worldwide via normal or additional demand.


No. I had a small fraction of one bitcoin plus some accumulated very small donations for the cat rescue (which has been going deeper into the red since last year). Once upon a time we had 1.6 bitcoins, which had to be cashed out to pay vet bills. What I sold recently will pay one installment on the vet bills -- about $60 -- leaving no way to pay the remaining $500 (roughly) let alone anything else.

----------


## Suzu

> He's asking if you still hold bitcoins?  We just went thru a lot of up and down chop over the last 6 months.
> 
> EDIT:  Also if you don't understand something you should google it.  "ATH meaning" turns up your answer pretty fast.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?safe=o....0.XXiQ-nwqT9s


Well who knew... Every other time I've googled an ancronym, the results have been completely unrelated to whatever I was looking for. So I gave up....

As to "holding" bitcoins, alas, no. I had a little bit of one but was forced to sell it a while back -- knowing that the moment I did, I would wish that I hadn't. It's still worth watching though, because I can help friends with info.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Bitcoin Soars Above $700 As Chinese Buying Shows No Signs Of Slowing*

When we predicted last September that bitcoin, which then was trading at $230, would be the biggest winner from unprecedented Chinese buying to avoid heightened capital controls, something which even Bloomberg confirms is taking place flip-flopping on its previous "explanation" that BTC is rising due to some Russian pyramid scheme, not even we anticipated a move quite like this: 9 months later bitcoin is over 200% higher, and moments ago soared above $700, hitting $710 earlier today for the first time since early 2014, when it was sliding from its all time high above $1000.

More...http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...-signs-slowing

----------


## kpitcher

> I was being hyperbolic a bit, I don't even have a 100 bitcoins, and just holding. I'm not trading.
> 
> What's weird is Ethereum holding it's BTC ratio pretty well despite the "surge" in BTC.


Most alt coins don't really fall much when BTC gets a surge, most of the alt exchanges price in bitcoin and ignore fiat. (Btc-e being one of the exceptions). It's not like doge became worth more when BTC dropped.

----------


## muh_roads

> I was being hyperbolic a bit, I don't even have a 100 bitcoins, and just holding. I'm not trading.
> 
> What's weird is Ethereum holding it's BTC ratio pretty well despite the "surge" in BTC.


Ethereum scares me.  I want but don't want.  The mining inflation rate for PoW sounds retarded.  When it ends and they switch to PoS, it is supposed to increase by 10% per year.  I keep getting different numbers on the real inflation rate and they all sound crappy.  I think one of them said bitcoin will have an additional 38% inflation over the next 20 years.  But then it practically stops.  Ethereum by comparison is going to go up 1800% over the next 20.  And I don't think it stops there.

Ethereum current supply is already at 89m in 1 year.  Bitcoin is at 14m over 7 years?

A lot of money is going to need to keep pouring in to keep eth floating, I'd think.

There are a lot of brains within the Ethereum community.  Unfortunately I think they are liberal brains that don't care about economics or supply and demand.  Maybe the demand will be there?  Bitcoin Sidechains are going to do the same thing soon.  Lisk I think is the first Sidechain that adds javascript functionality for companies that act as bitcoin services in a more decentralized way.

The end game for all of this I think is replacing middleman bankers in as many sectors of banking as possible.

----------


## kpitcher

> The end game for all of this I think is replacing middleman bankers in as many sectors of banking as possible.


I think you're right and that's why ETH is doing so well. The built in code ability within ETH is very neat. Although we're seeing some of the various problems with the DAO rollout (Which is still the largest crowdsourced project in history with a start of 220 million USD) -  the contract written into ETH may violate various laws (Stock, investment, acting as an exchange, so many things...).  Although this hasn't hurt the price of DAO so that's a bonus. We're seeing just the beginning of what crypto contracts can achieve and there is still a lot for the community to figure out on how best to use it.

----------


## XTreat

Need some advice, I'm sitting on about 2000 LTC because I have a ASIC Script Miner that is a beast. 

I traded a $#@! load of them to BTC last summer when the ratio hit .015-.018 but have been holding them ever since. 

So what should I do with them? Does anyone expect LTC/BTC ratio to catch up or should I go ahead and get all into BTC now? Half and half maybe?

----------


## presence

> Does anyone expect LTC/BTC ratio to catch up


YES, historically when BTC level's up... it begins a growth curve... alt ratios suffer.... FOMO intensifies.... then suddenly the alts pump.

https://bitinfocharts.com/en/compari...c-nmc.html#log

I'm holding LTC patiently.   

LTC lacks "latest and greatest tech" but its fundamentals are very strong.... its accepted at EVERY major alt coin exchange.   Its trade volume is huge, its daily transactions... huge, average transaction value is actually greater than BTC, and hashrate is solid.  

0.0225 is destiny

----------


## bitman

What do u guys think about ETH? how much will the DAO scandal affect its price?

----------


## kpitcher

I wouldn't call the DAO a complete scandal. AFAIK, no ETH was lost, it's just being refunded. A hundred million+ crowd funding project was a victim of its own success.

This does drive down the price of ETH for a bit, I assume there will be a DAO 2 or whatever.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> What do u guys think about ETH? how much will the DAO scandal affect its price?


It's a bust, bro. Being in Bitcoin is the word at this point.

----------


## bitman

Ok tnx! 
Actually i decided to jump out of it on the spot right after i wrote the post.
Seems as a good decision now as it broke through the support by now and is still falling.
I almost broke even

----------


## kfarnan

Time to pump it up.  Weekend moon days.

----------


## presence

excellent post on why ethereum's "solidity" language is a heaping pile of $#@!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/co...vulnerability/

----------


## muh_roads

> I wouldn't call the DAO a complete scandal. AFAIK, no ETH was lost, it's just being refunded. A hundred million+ crowd funding project was a victim of its own success.
> 
> This does drive down the price of ETH for a bit, I assume there will be a DAO 2 or whatever.


A DAO and ETH buying opportunity I would assume.  I'd like to see ETH mimic the downward 2014 btc period.

I still don't understand DAO.  Couldn't another just be made leaving current DAO holders screwed?  There is already something called DigixDAO...

----------


## muh_roads

> excellent post on why ethereum's "solidity" language is a heaping pile of $#@!
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/co...vulnerability/


This all reminds me why Satoshi said he didn't do "Turing complete" for bitcoin.  It's neat but would have too many holes in it.

----------


## presence

http://pastebin.com/CcGUBgDG


#REKTH







> ===== BEGIN SIGNED MESSAGE =====
> To the DAO and the Ethereum community,
> 
>  I have carefully examined the code of The DAO and  decided to participate after finding the feature where splitting is  rewarded with additional ether. I have made use of this feature and have  rightfully claimed 3,641,694 ether, and would like to thank the DAO for  this reward. It is my understanding that the DAO code contains this  feature to promote decentralization and encourage the creation of "child  DAOs".
> 
>  I am disappointed by those who are characterizing the  use of this intentional feature as "theft".* I am making use of this  explicitly coded feature as per the smart contract terms and my law firm  has advised me that my action is fully compliant with United States  criminal and tort law.* For reference please review the terms of the DAO:
> 
>  "The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the  smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at  0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation  of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any  additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The  DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely  offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the  express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the  extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the  descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at  0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, _The DAO’s code controls and  sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation._"
> 
> ...

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## kfarnan

> http://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/home-dashboard
> 
> 0.8% of all bitcoins stolen. 125,000 bitcoins or 90 million



THis looks sketchy.  Someone accessed cold storage.  Another mt Gox..

----------


## bitman

Ah...
Crazy movement and was so busy i noticed now only!
Well at least i was net short 

So what is the prognosis?
Should we be concerned?
Its not a mtgox moment, but the amount of bitcoin is quite large...

i'd call a bottom retest, consolidation, then up from the halving effect?
I seriously doubt that an event like this can kill this bull market... or can it?

----------


## fatjohn

Well final tally is 119k btc. This is too much imo. It is known they control a wallet of 33k btc.

Their btc market volume is probably a small 10 million btc / year. At 0.2% taker and 0.1% maker fee this generates a revenue of about 25 k btc / year. Their ETH, ETC and LTC markets might double that. 

So we're probably looking at a theft the size of their reserves + 2 years of revenue.

My assessment: Game over Bitfinex.

That's 39 ETC and 0.7 BTC i'll never see again.

----------


## fatjohn

I'm calling this the Bitfinex Bottom.

Last days of sub 600 dollar coins.

Can't wait to get home and buy some more

----------


## fatjohn

The bitfinex bottom has almost been filled up... 16 bucks left until bitstamp is back at pre crash levels

----------


## bitman

I think it's time to start loading up! 
Presence... what is the prognosis with Honey Badger?

----------


## presence

we're in fiat

----------


## bitman

we r coming to the decision point. as soon as it pops the resistance line, we are airborn 
unless it breaks down first, then it will take a few more weeks...

----------


## presence

my Honey Badger algo has bought and sold for small loss every 2 days for the past 10; indecision... beware of breakout and be on the right side of it.



we're up and down stoploss on the 10/320 1h sma cross since the 320 bounce; you really want to be on the right side of 1h 320 here, so don't get left behind.


I call this stoploss  trade class "bloody river resistance checkpoint", I take loss here to ensure I'm on the right side of the long game.


1h sma 10 currently under 1h 320, we are in fiat as of the last hourly tick.

----------


## bitman

Seems we have a liftoff! 
For those taking it slowly, no need to fomo now, feels like a gradual liftoff to me.
There should be time to buy in slowly through the next couple of dips.

Or not :P
Personally i was a bit anxious and already loaded up in the last couple of weeks

----------


## bitman

Wow!
That was sharp 
Seems everyone was at their tiptoes waiting for it to blow upwards.

Hold on everyone, the fun is just beginin

----------


## FSP-Rebel

The season is changing I see, should be an entertaining fall. We need to get this thread going again and help the rest of this community see the light on crypto. Neg rates are coming.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Why the First Bitcoin ETF Could Double the Price of Bitcoin*

The arrival of the first Bitcoin ETF will have a bigger impact on the Bitcoin price than even most of the digital currency's supporters suspect.

And that moment isn't far away. The Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust (BATS: COIN) exchange-traded fund is in the final stages of its SEC approval process.

While it's still possible the SEC will reject the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF, it's far more likely it will be approved. And the SEC must rule one way or the other by March 2017.

Most of the Bitcoin community has assumed the approval of the first Bitcoin ETF will be a positive for the price of Bitcoin. That's because it will add to the legitimacy of the digital currency in addition to providing a new avenue for people to invest in Bitcoin.

But the history of other commodity-based ETFs suggests this event will be a major catalyst.

In the early-to-mid 2000s, ETFs launched for a wide range of commodities, including gold, silver, platinum, copper, oil, and natural gas. In just about every case, the price of the underlying commodity shot up in the years following the debut of ETFs based on that commodity.

More...http://moneymorning.com/2016/09/09/w...ce-of-bitcoin/

----------


## FSP-Rebel

This analyst is predicting a bloodbath and the start of another major bear market for Bitcoin - that could kill it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

----------


## kpitcher

> This analyst is predicting a bloodbath and the start of another major bear market for Bitcoin - that could kill it.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ


Uggg FSP-Rebel

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Chart porn
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BT...extrapolation/

----------


## presence



----------


## muh_roads

> 


At what price did honey badger buy back in?

----------


## muh_roads

> *Why the First Bitcoin ETF Could Double the Price of Bitcoin*
> 
> The arrival of the first Bitcoin ETF will have a bigger impact on the Bitcoin price than even most of the digital currency's supporters suspect.
> 
> And that moment isn't far away. The Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust (BATS: COIN) exchange-traded fund is in the final stages of its SEC approval process.
> 
> While it's still possible the SEC will reject the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF, it's far more likely it will be approved. And the SEC must rule one way or the other by March 2017.
> 
> Most of the Bitcoin community has assumed the approval of the first Bitcoin ETF will be a positive for the price of Bitcoin. That's because it will add to the legitimacy of the digital currency in addition to providing a new avenue for people to invest in Bitcoin.
> ...


You found this before anyone else.  People are just posting about this today it seems on the tweeters.

----------


## presence

> At what price did honey badger buy back in?



We shifted from Mode 4 (cat bounce) to Mode 1 (green dragon) this morning. 

We've been holding since September 3rd at $595

----------


## presence

possible breakout, we could see 660 by noon

----------


## presence

> possible breakout, we could see 660 by noon




*

BOOM*

----------


## presence

Charts on big screen this morning 

honey badger algo still hodling

----------


## kfarnan

are you a prophet?

----------


## fatjohn

I like money

----------


## presence

breakout to the north side of the bull flag at btce; I'm looking for another $20-$25 measured move toward high sixes this evening.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> The 1-week Bitcoin/$USD chart correction is nearing completion. That chart range started correcting around the end of July when the big dump-down from the 5180 Hobular high occured.
> 
> That correction also painted the handle onto the humungous 3-year cup and handle formation thats been forming since the 2013 China-driven $1200 ATH.
> 
> The timing of events seems to be pointing to a perfect storm towards the end of the year, possibly consisting of Lightning Network arrival, Segwit, BTC Developer & mining consensus putting previous confrontations to bed and an array of chart technicals going green. Things would then be in place for the Wrinklyboss ETF to turn up and light the touchpaper on the tinder pile.

----------


## presence

this ain't no cup and handle its a damn cappuccino grande 

I have this itching feeling we'll see $2500/btc in 2017

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Hobular market moves afoot again.
> 
> It's reaching for that Oct 23rd 4575 shot. 2-Hour momentum moveing average crossing over. If that pushes the 4-hour chart into the green then it may have a chance.
> 
> The expectations are there at least. Alts are dumping.
> 
> *****
> 
> We're up to 4550 now. 25 to go. Volume coming up....4560...


Looks up

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> ...thats it. We've broken out of that little 3-day correction.
> 
> Bears were not able to push it down enough to correct beyond the 4-hour chart which is now about to turn positive again. Lets see what happens now. We need that 5180 for escape velocity.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Then bearwhale dumps, back where we were essentially.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

$662BTC

----------


## FSP-Rebel

All western exchanges back over $670.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

From early this morning:

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> From above picture it is clear that, shortly after the bottom was confirmed for the third and final time, bitcoin has been in an incredible bull market ever since. With recent support holding and the MACD suggesting positive momentum, it seems like said bull market is here to stay. Start trading below our SMA and things will be negative.






> Now this looks like a cup and handle breakout pattern to me. Not only was ~$680 resistance just a couple of months ago but also in 2014, after it had acted as a level of support in 2013. Also, this price level coincides with the lip of our cup. So a new break above this resistance is very relevant.

----------


## presence

> 



of note, that rattle you get at 41.5 to 42.5 as resistance becomes support on the top side of the handle; _the touch back_

that might work out to be a rattle in the $775 to $875 range a few weeks out if this trend continues past the rim of the cup

possible 10%^3 hat trick

----------


## presence

> I'm looking for another $20-$25 measured move toward high sixes this evening.


took 48 hrs more than expected, but here we are; I'm hodling

Attachment 5314

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*Needham Raises Bitcoin Price Target To $848: Here's Why*

With bitcoin breaking out of its recent trading range as Chinese buyers once again flock to the currency as the Yuan slides (as we predicted over a year ago they would), even Wall Street analysts are starting to pay attention, and in a recent report by Needham's Spencer Bogart, the analyst has raised his price target on the digital currency from $655 to $848, due to "1) adoption trending faster than we forecasted in March, 2) improving fundamentals, and 3) upcoming protocol improvements that present attractive optionality for the price of Bitcoin. At the highest level, we continue to see value in Bitcoin as a "digital gold" and as a payment network that is enabling a global, open, permissionless financial system."

Wait, bitcoin has fundamentals? Why yes, and here is Needham's extensive breakdown for why bitcoin is set to rise substantially higher, but first, the Investment Thesis.

* * *

Bitcoin is a decentralized, borderless, peer-to-peer, electronic cash system that is disintermediating and removing friction in the exchange of value by enabling fast, low-cost, global, peer-to-peer payments.

Similar to how the internet created a global open network for the exchange of information, so too is Bitcoin and its underlying “blockchain” technology enabling an open and global network for the exchange of value. For reasons addressed in this report, we see Bitcoin and its underlying technology as among the most significant innovations in payments and money in recent history.

More...http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-1...-848-heres-why

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Bullish?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Federal_Railways

A state owned company with 33k employees and around $8 billion turnover starts selling bitcoin in all of Switzerland.

https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-servic...s/bitcoin.html

Here you have - out of the blue - the biggest seller of bitcoin worldwide, a federal railway company.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Derivatives Giant CME Sets Launch Date for Bitcoin Indexes  (13 November)

http://www.coindesk.com/cme-launch-d...tcoin-indexes/

----------


## fatjohn

> of note, that rattle you get at 41.5 to 42.5 as resistance becomes support on the top side of the handle; _the touch back_
> 
> that might work out to be a rattle in the $775 to $875 range a few weeks out if this trend continues past the rim of the cup
> 
> possible 10%^3 hat trick


10% = 0.1
0.1^3 = 0.001
0.001 = 0.1%

Bitcoin is going to plummet 99.9%?!





In all seriousness though. Thoughts about LTC anyone?
Lagging again, ratio is hitting depths never seen since early 2013.
In addition, this latest BTC move seems in part due to staggering volume on BTCChina, rallying from distant third to now the main Chinese exchange by volume. It's LTC market is however (unlike Huobi and OkCoin) virtually non-existant.

We're now at 0.057x ...

----------


## FSP-Rebel

$700 breached on Finex and Houbi, another green dildo - more money is fun.

Up ~17% this month, Hillary getting $#@!ed before the election, priceless.

----------


## XTreat

Yeah I am sitting on a $#@!load of LTC and have been since last summer waiting for a return to at least.01.  I'm starting to think that it's not going to happen. 

I dunno if I should trade some or all now, I wouldn't really lose anything because they are mined. But I sure would like some better ratios.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## muh_roads

> Yeah I am sitting on a $#@!load of LTC and have been since last summer waiting for a return to at least.01.  I'm starting to think that it's not going to happen. 
> 
> I dunno if I should trade some or all now, I wouldn't really lose anything because they are mined. But I sure would like some better ratios.


You might as well hang on since you have for so long.  But the Litecoin dev team is really nothing special.  Their roadmap was really sad compared to other alts out there.  LTC devs seem like a bunch of kids just copying bitcoin features and hoping it works out for them.

WAVES is one I am keeping my eye on.  I think it has the potential to do what ETH and XMR did sometime in the near future.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## FSP-Rebel

Someone sold the $#@! out of litecoin this morning.

----------


## bitman

Seems all is going according to plan 


China wants to go up up up, it already broke through the 5200 CNY resistance.
USD based market is a little more conservative, obeying the support lines very nicely, peacefully rising according to the trend line, waiting to pop the 780 USD resistance.


it seems that it is just a matter of time till USD market pops through the resistance. unless the support trendline is broken, which seems unlikely.
there is a great probability that an even steeper trendline gets established after the USD pop. that would make it the third bull trendline since the summer bitfinex incident.


if the third trendline holds, that could give us enough force to break through the all time highs and possibly establish a full blown moon launch.
and that would give us a new full blown parabolic blowout. let us not forget that we had halvening in summer which i believe additionally supports such a scenario.
but enough storytelling, wishful thinking doesnt make money, playing safe does  and playing according to the support lines seems as safe as it gets.






shame about the LTC, seems to me like its slowly dying

----------


## fatjohn



----------


## kfarnan

Up and away.

----------


## presence

btce, huobi, stamp all over June 2015 prices; 
we're at the highest btc price in almost 3 years now; 
not since the Feb 2014 consolidation before the plummet

honey badger holds BTC
mode is green dragon
instant overbought at 969 rising $4.75 daily

----------


## presence

ETH/BTC past 60 minutes at ~4 second resolution

This is an authenticated connection to poloniex via python terminal; 
then depth of market heat map from streaming orderbook via matplotlib and numpy

large orders are volume weighted gold; small orders are black

ticker is red and volume weighted

all orders are in turquoise w/ line

day 2 of my pet project; yesterday was 1st authentication to polo

tomorrow ta-lib

----------


## LibertyClick

So what do you all think.... after this bull run, will there be a day to buy sub 800 bitcoin later?

----------


## presence

*https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_fldc
*

----------


## presence

this weeks altcoin pics at polo

http://pastebin.com/

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> this weeks altcoin pics at polo
> 
> http://pastebin.com/


You're kidding with that I hope. We just went over $800 on western exchanges for the first time since the drowningfest in early '14, so I was expecting more out of you.

----------


## presence

> You're kidding with that I hope. We just went over $800 on western exchanges for the first time since the drowningfest in early '14, so I was expecting more out of you.


nope 

far from overbought

algo says moon on; overbought is purple line approaching $1000

I had a little flinch at the end of november when 12h sma54 went horizontal for 24 hours... other than that all systems green dragon



its about to get serious

----------


## kfarnan

> this weeks altcoin pics at polo
> 
> http://pastebin.com/


What does it say.  Can't see charts?

----------


## presence

> What does it say.  Can't see charts?


oops... something went wrong when I copied it

try this instead

http://pastebin.com/Xyz9Hy4w




> I'm very bullish
> 
> I'm acquiring altcoins; criteria: 
> 
> minimum price 100 sat
> linear support for all of 2016
>  making the 25/50 daily candle cross
>  buying the 25 day sma
> *
> ...

----------


## presence



----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

Except for 3-4 months starting in DEC 2013 anyone that purchased bitcoin ever is up on paper anyway!! Supposedly some medium sized funds are soliciting big chunks of BTC from mining pools. Who knows if the reporting is legit or not though. 

https://twitter.com/BitfuryGeorge/st...63784682819584

----------


## presence

> nope 
> 
> far from overbought
> 
> []
> 
> its about to get serious


boom

----------


## presence

> Except for 3-4 months starting in DEC 2013 anyone that purchased bitcoin ever is up on paper anyway!! Supposedly some medium sized funds are soliciting big chunks of BTC from mining pools. Who knows if the reporting is legit or not though. 
> 
> https://twitter.com/BitfuryGeorge/st...63784682819584



that's huge

----------


## kfarnan

to the moon

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

*
Bitcoin NEW all time high Market Cap*

----------


## kfarnan

> 


WHat does that mean?

----------


## presence

> WHat does that mean?


alts crossing over the 50 day moving average are about to go lunar

----------


## presence



----------


## kfarnan

Strap in folks.  900+

----------


## fatjohn

*LTC +12%*

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## fatjohn

Volume now over 150 Million LTC on OKCoin (quite retarded since there are only 50 million or so out there) the highest since May. (day is not over yet)

And over 30 yuan it goes again!

Edit: Volume on OKCoin to break the daily record, 90% of record on huobi, short at your own peril! Double top I say! Goodnight.

----------


## bitman

Wau! what a massive blowup 
Seems very similar to the end of may 2016 scenario when a similar longterm key resistance was broken.

Notice that it was BTCUSD resistance that governed this blowup (china broke it much earlier, but the resistance price level should be reevaluated for the depreciating yuan thou...)


I guess there are two short term scenarios, first similar to the end of may 2106, where the rize happened in a form of "steps"
and the second where it is more sawtooth like, example the october 2016 rize.

At the moment the "hyper support" holds well.



after the hyper support gets broken, we could see one of the two previously mentioned scenarios, no1. a horizontal relaxation and another step in a week or so, or no2. with a bigger sharp drop which then defines a new steeper longterm support level, but also proceeds with more choppy movement.
first scenario should bring us to the all time high resistance before it runs out. 2nd scenario should take more time, holding onto and testing the newly created support level.

but who knows
i think there is some truth in beautifully matching lines 
goodnight

----------


## bitman

at the moment it seems that the first scenario is unfolding. the critical support level is defined with the last higher low (6250CNY at huobi)

----------


## presence

Honey Badger holds






```
[2016-12-24 13:18:00] Minutes of Clock Drift Algorithm/Tradewave:  0 / 411
[2016-12-24 13:18:00]  1480470120G 0R 1L :: 1.00M 1.00S 1.00N :: 0S 0B :: 2 894.93 -0.64 : 3  897.68 -0.17 : 30 804.58 0.64 :: 55T 820.28 : 55B 584.79 : 55S 0.43 ::  R2 1055.71 :: 60 779.75 0.41 : 90 763.93 0.32 : 150 734.29 0.26 :: 0O  0.89Z
[2016-12-24 13:18:00] R2>150C>H>O>3>2>C>L>55T>30>60>90>150>55B - 30s>60s>90s>150s>0
```

R2; aka mean overbought at btce/stamp/finex is at 1055.71 ascending about 69 cents an hour.    

we're well over 55T @ 820.28; which means steel balls time until overbought, unless 12h 55 slope turns south; rising 43 cents an hour last




except for 12 hours on Nov 30th; we've been holding since Sept 2; mode is green dragon


steel balls

----------


## presence

I just released a 25 tweet storm on protein folding news.

*PROTEIN FOLDING IS HOT DEC 2016*

Insider Trading has spiked in Dec 2016; last week an insider half a million dollars of PTI cap $2million. 



PTI and Amicus (protein folding stocks) both shifted to consensus BUY rating

Multiple major medical universities announced significant folding discoveries.

Elon Musk is launching a new folding platform.

School districts are adding computers to folding@home by the 1000's

multiple Major Awards granted to folding scientists.



check out @foldingcoin



much more here:

https://twitter.com/oraclepresence/with_replies

----------


## presence

#foldingcoin #curecoin

Protein Folding Stocks "Consensus Buy":

AMICUS, PROTEOSTASIS and PEREGRINE


*Brokerages Set Proteostasis Therapeutics Inc. (PTI) Target Price at ...*

The Cerbat Gem-11 hours ago
_Proteostasis Therapeutics_ logo Shares of _Proteostasis Therapeutics_ Inc. (NASDAQ:PTI) have earned a *consensus recommendation of “Buy” ...
*
_Proteostasis Therapeutics_ Inc. (PTI) Soars 5.66% on December 23
Equities.com-Dec 23, 2016
Todays stocks: The Franklin M. Berger invests in 40000 by the ...
DailyQuint-19 hours ago
Stock Update: Estimates & Target in Focus for _Proteostasis_ ...
CSZ News-Dec 23, 2016View all

*Franklin M. Berger Buys 40000 Shares of Proteostasis Therapeutics ...*

The Cerbat Gem-Dec 21, 2016
_Proteostasis Therapeutics_ logo _Proteostasis Therapeutics_ Inc. (NASDAQ:PTI) Director Franklin M. Berger purchased 40,000 shares of the ...

_Proteostasis Therapeutics_ Inc. (PTI) Receives Consensus Rating of ...
BBNS-Dec 21, 2016


*Amicus Therapeutics to Present at the 35th Annual J.P. Morgan ...*

Nasdaq-Dec 23, 2016
23, 2016 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- _Amicus Therapeutics_ (Nasdaq:FOLD), a global biotechnology company at the forefront of therapies for rare ...

Insider Trading Activity _Amicus Therapeutics_ Inc. (NASDAQ:FOLD ...
Market Exclusive-5 hours ago
_Amicus Therapeutics_ Inc. (FOLD) Soars 10.15% on December 23
Equities.com-Dec 23, 2016
Stock Mover of the Day: _Amicus Therapeutics_, Inc. Just Recorded A ...
Frisco Fastball-Dec 23, 2016
Highly Traded Stock: _Amicus Therapeutics_, Inc. (NASDAQ:FOLD)
FactsReporter-Dec 23, 2016






*Company Watch for Peregrine Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (NASDAQ:PPHM)*

Business Daily Leader-57 minutes ago
Investors may be checking in on the status of _Peregrine Pharmaceuticals_, Inc. (NASDAQ:PPHM) shares. The company presently has an EV (Enterprise Value) of ...

Community Financial News
*Unusual Volume Spikes For: Peregrine Pharmaceuticals, Inc ...*

FactsReporter-Dec 23, 2016
_Peregrine Pharmaceuticals_, Inc. (NASDAQ:PPHM) belonging to the Medical sector has surged 0.72% and closed its last trading session at ...

_Peregrine Pharmaceuticals_ Inc. (PPHM) Upgraded by Zacks ...
Community Financial News-Dec 23, 2016
_Peregrine Pharmaceuticals_ Inc. (NASDAQ:PPHM) has industry P/E ...
The Newburgh Press-Dec 23, 2016View all



*Peregrine Pharmaceuticals Reported Stellar Quarterly Results - So ...*

Seeking Alpha-Dec 15, 2016
_Peregrine Pharmaceuticals_, Inc. (NASDAQ:PPHM) is a biopharmaceutical company. The company operates through two segments: Peregrine, ...

Featured Stock to See: _Peregrine Pharmaceuticals_, Inc. (NASDAQ ...
FactsReporter-Dec 15, 2016View all

----------


## kfarnan

Not much care for big pharma.  They only care about themselves and their bottom line.

----------


## presence

> Not much care for big pharma.  They only care about themselves and their bottom line.


None of these are "big pharma" in the bayer, merck, phizer,  johnson&johnson sense... all three stocks are market cap of about $2m each; they're startups using computer simulations to fold proteins to CURE genetic disorders; this is small cap independent venture medical frontlines not mass production of xanax and prozac.  Most of them have been sliding for a while, but all are in the past week rated very highly.

----------


## presence

ringing in this bitcoin rally with a freezer full of black bear meat has been really nice

bear meatballs for christmas

----------


## bitman

Can i get mine back please? 

i was betting on a much longer consolidation phase and a bigger drop. closed half of my position at the worst possible time.
but what to do, i try to be very cautious with my leveraged part of the position.

----------


## presence

sad day
*
trollboxarchive.com died today*

next to fontas,

 "litepresence" was the #2 most searched user name of all time





> *Aaron Decker, Web Developer*
> 
>              Web Developer, Consultant, Adjunct Instructor.
> 
> Home/Contact/About Blog 
> 
> *Shutting Down Trollboxarchive*
> 
> *What was the trollboxarchive.com?*
> ...

----------


## muh_roads

Bitcoin just surpassed its all-time high in regards to market capitalization...now sitting at $15B 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0skQXWVQAQnR4v.jpg

It's funny because governments add that much currency in days/weeks to their debt.  Still so much more room for up in the future.

----------


## presence



----------


## presence



----------


## presence

per google trends

 okcoin, huobi, btce, bitstamp, bitfinex = ded 

poloniex, kraken, coinbase = moon

https://www.google.com/trends/explor...,kraken,okcoin

----------


## presence

google trends on kraken are spiking huge




I did a little looking around to figure out why

seems Kraken just made an aquisition of a company called 




> *About Us - Glidera*
> 
> https://www.glidera.io/overview
> 
> 
> Announcement: _Kraken_ acquires Glidera December 13th, 2016 ... and selling of bitcoin and other digital assets via convenient _payments_ like _ACH transfers_.


More or less you are going to be able to buy bitcoin on your debit card at kraken

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_Clearing_House




> Kraken, one of the largest cryptocurrency trading venues in the  world, has acquired bitcoin wallet funding service Glidera for an  undisclosed sum. 
> 
> The acquisition means that Kraken clients will soon be  able to experience direct 
> *
> one-click buying and selling of  cryptocurrencies 
> via traditional bank payments* 
> 
> 
> like ACH transfers.

----------


## presence

btce/bitstamp/bitfinex Honey Badger average overbought (R2) at 

*$1139.11 rising $1.22 per hour*

----------


## presence

*Monero - XMR potential 51% attack*

https://monerohash.com/#network

currently 50.8% going to dwarfpool.com


ZEC up 25% in past 24 hours... wallet just went under maintenance... you can't move coins.

----------


## presence

*Hot Performer of the day: Amicus Therapeutics, Inc. (NASDAQ:FOLD)*

FactsReporter-1 hour ago
Amicus Therapeutics, Inc. (NASDAQ:FOLD) belonging to the Medical ... proteins in cells, leading to improved *protein folding*


https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_fldc
https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_cure

----------


## presence

*Global Expression Vectors Market will reach USD 3303 Million by ...*EconoTimes-8 hours ago
Moreover, technological advancement in protein expression techniques, ... of recombinant *proteins folding*, and complex post-translational modifications.

----------


## kfarnan

> *Monero - XMR potential 51% attack*
> 
> https://monerohash.com/#network
> 
> currently 50.8% going to dwarfpool.com
> 
> 
> ZEC up 25% in past 24 hours... wallet just went under maintenance... you can't move coins.


Alts are a waste of time.

----------


## presence

PROTEIN FOLDING IS HOT

AMICUS

*Hot Performer of the day: Amicus Therapeutics, Inc. (NASDAQ:FOLD)*

FactsReporter-1 hour ago
_Amicus_ Therapeutics, Inc. on 11/07/2016 reported its EPS as $-0.33 with the analysts projecting the EPS of the _stock_ as $-0.32. The company beat the analyst ...

_Amicus_ Therapeutics Inc. (FOLD) Major Shareholder Buys ...
Community Financial News-21 hours ago
_Amicus_ Therapeutics Inc. (FOLD) Sees Significant Growth in Short ...
BBNS-11 hours ago

PEREGRINE

*Peregrine Pharmaceuticals Inc. (PPHM) Stock Rating Upgraded by ...*

The Cerbat Gem-Dec 26, 2016
Peregrine Pharmaceuticals Inc. (NASDAQ:_PPHM_) was upgraded by Zacks Investment ... has a $0.25 price objective on the biopharmaceutical company's _stock_.

Insider Activity of Peregrine Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (NASDAQ:_PPHM_)
FactsReporter-Dec 27, 2016
Keep Track Of Active _Stocks_: Peregrine Pharmaceuticals Inc ...
WsNews 4investors-Dec 27, 2016
Peregrine Pharmaceuticals Inc. (NASDAQ:_PPHM_) has the current ...
The Newburgh Press-Dec 27, 2016
Broker Ratings: Zillow Group, Inc. (NASDAQ:Z), Peregrine ...
Benchmark Monitor-Dec 27, 2016


PROTEOSTASIS


*Stock Holding Onto Its Positive Trend, Can The Positive Direction ...*

AR News-Dec 27, 2016
Proteostasis Therapeutics, Inc. (NASDAQ:_PTI_) shares are holding above their moving averages, indicating a postitive uptrend for Technology company. In order ...
*Proteostasis Therapeutics Inc. (PTI) Receives Average ...*

Community Financial News-Dec 26, 2016
Several research firms have recently commented on _PTI_. HC Wainwright set a $15.00 target price on shares of Proteostasis Therapeutics and gave the _stock_ a ...
*Stocks: Proteostasis Therapeutics Inc. (PTI) Major Shareholder ...*

DailyQuint-8 hours ago
Proteostasis Therapeutics Inc. (NASDAQ:_PTI_) major shareholder Cormorant Asset Management, Ll acquired 327,977 shares of the _stock_ in a transaction dated ...





*Tech Gainers: QuickLogic Corporation (NASDAQ:QUIK), Intelsat ...*

Benchmark Monitor-Dec 27, 2016
1  given Buy rating to the stock whereas no analyst given UNDERPERFORM  rating to stock and ... rating to Proteostasis Therapeutics, Inc.  (NASDAQ:_PTI_) _stock_.
*Proteostasis Therapeutics Inc. (PTI) Soars 5.66% on December 26*

Equities.com-Dec 26, 2016
PTI - Market Data & News · _PTI_ - _Stock_ Valuation Report. Proteostasis Therapeutics Inc. (PTI) had a good day on the market for Monday December 26 as shares ...

*Investor Circle: Watching the Numbers on Shares of Proteostasis ...*

Wall Street Lion-18 hours ago
Currently, Proteostasis Therapeutics, Inc. (NASDAQ:_PTI_)






ASTELLAS


*OTC Wonder Stock Update: Focusing the Lens on ASTELLAS ...*

Duncan Research-Dec 27, 2016
_ASTELLAS_ PHARMA INCORPORATED (ALPMF) has made news recently due to the fact that its share price changed -0.1, hitting $14.34 in the ...

*Investor Sphere: Keeping an Eye on Levels for Astellas Pharma Inc ...*

Yankee Analysts-22 hours ago
Traders may be relying in part on technical _stock_ analysis. _Astellas_ Pharma Inc (ALPMY) currently has a 14-day Commodity Channel Index ...


IMMUNOMEDICS

*Immunomedics Announces Novel Immuno-Oncology Program ...*

Nasdaq-Dec 12, 2016
In a single-arm Phase 2 study, _IMMU_-132 has produced promising results ... Dock-and-Lock® (DNL®) _protein_ conjugation platform technology.


*Immunomedics Announces Achievement of Patient Enrollment Into ...*

GlobeNewswire (press release)-Dec 27, 2016
MORRIS PLAINS, N.J., Dec. 27, 2016 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Immunomedics, Inc. (_NASDAQ_:_IMMU_) today announced that a single-arm Phase ...





*Live Stock Coverage: Immucell Corp (NASDAQ:ICCC) Q3 2016 ...*

Post News-3 hours ago
Immucell Corp (_NASDAQ_:ICCC) institutional sentiment increased to 1.6 in Q3 2016. ... The Firm has developed products that provide immediate _immunity_ ... birth) utilizing its vaccine and milk _protein_ purification technologies.




*Time To Put On The Watch List? - Immunomedics, Inc. (NASDAQ ...*

The Voice Registrar-Dec 15, 2016
Immunomedics, Inc. (_NASDAQ_:_IMMU_) declined to $3.73 per share in the ... Dock-and-Lock®(DNL®) _protein_ conjugation platform technology.

*Trading the Biotech News: Immunomedics, Inc. (NASDAQ:IMMU ...*

The Voice Registrar-Dec 16, 2016
Shares of Immunomedics, Inc. (_NASDAQ_:_IMMU_) added 0.27% by the end ... Dock-and-Lock®(DNL®) _protein_ conjugation platform technology.

CELEGENE

*Celgene Corporation: CELG Stock Chart Setting Up for a Spike*

Profit Confidential-Dec 26, 2016
_Celgene Corporation_ (NASDAQ:CELG) stock is one of those investments that abides to technical indicators and patterns to such a degree that it ...

Stock's Earning Overview: _Celgene Corporation_ (NASDAQ:CELG)
News Oracle-Dec 21, 2016

*Celgene Corporation (NASDAQ:CELG) Analyst Estimates*

The Independent Republic-Dec 27, 2016
_Celgene Corporation_ (NASDAQ:CELG) stock is presently standing at about $118.93 and lots of equity research firms seem to have a target ...




*Two Biotechnology Names Are Hot: OvaScience, Inc. (OVAS ...*

The Independent Republic-3 hours ago
_Celgene Corporation_ (CELG) recently recorded -0.85 percent change and currently at $117.92 is 26.73 percent away from its 52-week low and ...



*Brokers Watch List: Celgene Corporation (NASDAQ:CELG), MGIC ...*

The Newburgh Press-3 hours ago
_Celgene Corp_. is an independent biopharmaceutical company engaged primarily in the discovery, development and commercialization of ...

BMO Capital Remains Bullish On _Celgene Corporation_ (CELG ...
TCC-Dec 6, 2016



*Why You Should Let Celgene Corporation Invest Your Money*

Motley Fool-Dec 7, 2016
That's the return that _Celgene Corporation_ (NASDAQ:CELG) achieved. But Celgene is a biotech, not an investment manager, right? Actually, it's ...


AMGEN

*1st Global Advisors Inc. Boosts Position in Amgen Inc. (AMGN)*The Cerbat Gem-10 hours ago
_Amgen_ logo 1st Global Advisors Inc. boosted its position in shares of _Amgen_ Inc.

Stocks: KAMES CAPITAL plc Reached $1352000 position of _Amgen_ ...
DailyQuint-2 hours ago

*Biotech Stocks Worth a Closer Look: Amgen Inc. (NASDAQ:AMGN ...*The Voice Registrar-1 hour ago
Shares of _Amgen_ Inc. (NASDAQ:AMGN) added 0.55% by the end of trading session at $148.36.

*Analysts Take the Wheel on Amgen Inc. (NASDAQ:AMGN) Shares ...*CSZ News-4 hours ago
Covering Street analysts are looking for _Amgen_ Inc. (NASDAQ:AMGN) to report quarterly EPS of $2.78.






poloniex.com

 #foldingcion #curecoin

----------


## presence

okcoin just hit 6955 CNY

 = 

$1000.00 USD

----------


## presence

more insider trading today in folding stocks

SEC Filing: As Amicus Therapeutics INC (_FOLD_) Stock Value Rose ...
Chester News-4 hours ago

----------


## presence

> *From AI to protein folding: Our Breakthrough runners-up*
> 
>      By Science News Staff
> 
> Dec. 22, 2016 , 2:00 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> ...


http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...hrough-runners

----------


## bullhammer

> okcoin just hit 6955 CNY
> 
>  = 
> 
> $1000.00 USD


Hey LP! long time eh! catch me up on this folding protein stuff! Also whats your take on BTC here, whats your target? I'm guessing we get a pullback soon but we should give the all time high and then sum before this rally is over! Big IHS points to all time high!

----------


## presence

> Hey LP! long time eh! catch me up on this folding protein stuff! Also whats your take on BTC here, whats your target? I'm guessing we get a pullback soon but we should give the all time high and then sum before this rally is over! Big IHS points to all time high!


there are two coins; curecoin and folding coin; they're currently providing 5% and 1% of the hashing power to Stanford U. folding@home.  

In the past 12 months there have been a series of independent discoveries made on the mechanisms involved in this science...

were talking about cures to broad swath of diseases; genuine cures to broad classes of genetic disorders as well as creation of things like broad spectrum "flu shots" that give immunity to ALL flu viruses.  They're developing proteins... which are like long chains of twisted molecules.... at the molecular level like never before.  Scientific breakthrough grade stuff happening; to a large degree the "science" is over my head to attempt to explain... but the fundamentals of pioneering breakthroughs are there.  

Many of the big protein folding stocks are major insider trading w/ SEC filing of ceo's taking fat stakes in the past 10 days.

The industry is going to go moonward in 2017; I feel it in my gut. 

lots of new patents, 
lots of prestigious science awards going to protein scientists
general sense that *"its the next big thing"*


I've begun buying FLDC heavily sub 115 and I'm expecting a bottom around 85.   

both fldc and cure are NOT easy to get into... very small cap... last for CURE is around 3750 sat and it would cost you 4950 sat to buy one bitcoin worth given the current book

my entry strategy is slow / steady in small but constant over past week or so ongoing; I've been a part of every 4 hour candle since the 20th.

----------


## presence

Honey Badger bitcoin target just went overdrive


 1156.48

now rising *$3.94 per hour* on the last tick (ceiling rising $94.56 daily); massive uptick in slope from 70 cents per hour earlier this week.



for price to catch up to resistance here expect no less than $150 daily rise in price and an upper limit no less than $1250; 1500 well within sight if we stay steady  to the weekend in the price channel established since the 21st

----------


## presence

> 


_
its so happening_

----------


## presence

Honey Badger btce/stamp/finex average overbought 1179.01 rising $1.57 per hour (37.68 daily)

----------


## presence

all my tweets on protein folding this past month... I've got about 40 new twitter followers... including this guy



senior whitehouse tech followin' ole litepresence

----------


## presence

> 29-12-2016*
> 
> Correct folding is critical for drug  efficacy, and incorrect folding can impact safety by causing unwanted  immune or off-target responses.*
> 
> []
> 
> With the global biopharmaceuticals market forecast to reach a total of  $497.9 (USD) billion by 2020, and most large pharmaceutical companies  now devoting around 40% or more of their R&D budget to  biopharmaceuticals, it is clear that research in this field in not  slowing down any time soon. So, it is an easy prediction to say that the  importance of [protein folding] analysis 
> 
> 
> ...




http://www.labnews.co.uk/features/qu...er-29-12-2016/

----------


## kpitcher

I see the underlying protocol used for FLDC tokens - counterparty - is down. Only a few million of them exist.. still digging into what XCP can all do. Appears to be like ETH with smart contracts while also allowing other tokens to sit on top of it.  

https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-XCP

----------


## staerker

http://foldingcoin.net/2016/11/folde...-announcement/




> FoldingCoin is happy to announce a new special rewards program to show appreciation to our most dedicated folders.
> 
> In extension of our ongoing collaboration with the Rare Pepe Foundation, we have created a very special certified Rare Pepe card: FOLDERPEPE is card No. 50 of Series 3 in the Rare Pepe Directory; a limited edition of only 600 cards which will exclusively be distributed to qualified folders contributing to Stanford´s Folding@Home (FAH) project through the Foldingcoin platform.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## presence

Honey Badger is still hodling 

I suspect we'll erupt a wide price channel for the next 60 days looking horizontal in range 1150 to 900

looks like future holds  top tier Cappuccino Grande to me

----------


## presence

We moved to fiat last night around midnight EST.

We exited under under the less profitable  "Capitulation" criteria meaning tending toward long moving average cross down rather than "Overbought" which would have been triggered by excessive long moving average divergence.

----------


## presence

There is spike in 6 hour standard deviation on ltcbtc... after months of decline this would indicate accumulation is finally occurring.   

Still a risky bet to buy here with price on the south side of the 50 day average....

but DO NOT short on loan... you could easily get toasted fast if the apparent accumulation continues

ltcbtc upgraded from sell to HOLD rating Jan 6th 2016

see increase in high-low range of the past 5 6h candles and accompanying volume

----------


## presence

also along the lines of foldingcoin... I've been looking into gridcoinresearch GCR

these coins are moreso tokens than true crypto coins but they're next generation "blockchain applications"

more on GCR here

http://beta.gridcoin.us/
https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/133...-grc-gridcoin/

the mission here is that instead of making it more difficult to mine coins by making some random math problem more difficult... tokens like FLDC, CURE, and GRC are awarding for hash power dedicated to scientific research; which creates positive feedback in that if you can sell this hashing power to private institutions there exists the possibility of funds for development.

I'm very bullish on this class of asset_ (proof of research)_ looking into 2017




> Gridcoin (Ticker: GRC) is a decentralized, open source math-based digital asset (cryptocurrency). It performs transactions peer-to-peer cryptographically without the need for a central issuing authority.                          Gridcoin was the first block chain protocol that  delivered a working algorithm that equally rewards and  cryptographically proves solving BOINC  (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) hosted work, which  can be virtually any kind of distributed computing process (GPU/CPU/Sensor/Etc).  BOINC  is an open-source volunteer oriented computing grid that combines the  processing power of all individual users for the purposes of scientific  research. It's free, and harnesses the unused clock cycles from  processors and graphics cards to attempt to cure cancer/aids/ebola/malaria, map the milkyway, crack enigma codes, etc..                          Gridcoin rewards BOINC computation using the Distributed Proof of Research (DPOR) reward mechanism, which is a combination of Proof of BOINC (POB) and Proof of Stake (POSv2).                           Proof of Work (POW)  consensus mechanisms are not utilised by the Gridcoin network, making  the Gridcoin cryptocurrency network far more energy efficient than any  existing POW cryptocurrencies.


technically, GRC meets my standard TECHNICAL altcoin entrance criteria at the moment

*50 day moving average near zero slope
Recent 25/50 day bull cross
Currently on 50 day support*

GRC gets a litepresence BUY rating here



compare to similar orientation found in FLDC which I'm continuing to accumulate and penny pump






I suspect the future of this technology lies in PRIVATE for profit institutions issuing "proof of research" tokens... then periodically buying the tokens back out of the market and engaging in "proof of destruction" to "artificially" increase market price, stimulate demand, and encourage distributed hashing power be dedicated to their for profit causes.

----------


## presence

we're holding bitcoin again
13.6% moar coinz short 

reentered successfully under heavy ddos; tradewave was experiencing 48% missing 1m ticks

rpfpresence@gmail.com for leases

----------


## bitman

Yes it seems the support trendline is holding 
For those who were catching the falling knives, hope it paid out for you. I ended up with many new grey hair, as i was not listening to my own advice and was entering early 
For the next few months i am playing along the support line. USD market is leading the market again. The chinese went crazy with emotions, braking all the rules and lines. Stamp and finex seem to be the most coolheaded players in the game at the moment, thou finex has some serious whiplashing problems. If u need to set stoplosses, maybe do it with 1Broker. Their index is a composite of, i think, five USD exchanges and hence much more stable and less prone to whiplash.



Happy trading!

----------


## fatjohn

I'm letting everything decide by my bots. I coded 3 myself and 2 rented at cryptotrader. The two i rented bombed extremely hard. Mine were awesome. Ltc bot just bought back after a 20% down leg.

LTC/BTC ratio is giving some signals of strength.

High hopes.

----------


## bitman

there is some china news, something about PBOC tightening the regulations on bitcoin or somethin? anyone did a proper research yet?

----------


## presence

> there is some china news, something about PBOC tightening the regulations on bitcoin or somethin? anyone did a proper research yet?


nothing significant

most noteworthy is they told exchanges  
*
DO NOT PROMOTE USDCNY DEVALUATION*

lol

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/not-...oin-exchanges/ 




> China has ordered the most liquid  and popular global bitcoin exchanges based in the country to refrain  from any “offline promotions,” to not engage in any “fake trading,” to  enact “mandatory strong KYC,” and, in a clear sign of nervousness about  the country’s currency, to not mention devaluation, according to a  translation.

----------


## presence

Basic python bot for Poloniex v1.0

http://pastebin.com/0kwkRZY7

data['300']['close'] is a depth 250 numpy array of 5m closing prices for PAIR

----------


## presence

16% of FLDC supply changed hands today

----------


## bitman

a, cool. tnx pres!

----------


## presence

LTC BREAKOUT

----------


## presence

> we're holding bitcoin again
> 13.6% moar coinz short 
> 
> reentered successfully under heavy ddos; tradewave was experiencing 48% missing 1m ticks
> 
> rpfpresence@gmail.com for leases


actually was 16% coin gain... I had two bots running one at btce and one at finex... when I first reported, I errantly calculated coin gain based on btce exit and finex entrance... but if I looked at same exchange in and out (finex exit finex entrance or btce exit btce entrance), coin gain was more.

----------


## presence

coblee just entered btce trollbox

this usually bullish ltc signal

----------


## presence

Foldingcoin 50 day average now 4th day rising positive slope

----------


## fatjohn

Ltc heading to 50 bucks

----------


## presence



----------


## kfarnan

What happened on the badger?

----------


## presence

> What happened on the badger?


Badger dumped 950 bought 818 (+16% coins)

Then dumped 769 bought 766 (break even)


I post all trades here usually same day:

https://discuss.tradewave.net/t/the-...thread/392/748

----------


## presence



----------


## presence

China Bans Margin Trading

ie NO LEVERAGE

*Chinese Central Bank turns attention to bitcoin exchanges; Price ...*Brave New Coin-12 hours ago



Actions of Chinese Government May Reduce Bitcoin Volatility ...
newsBTC-22 hours ago

----------


## muh_roads

> China Bans Margin Trading ie NO LEVERAGE


You must be shorting.  Sensational headline.  Nothing in there says ban.

----------


## presence

> You must be shorting.  Sensational headline.  Nothing in there says ban.


I admit I didn't read.  I listened to Tre on that one.  Homeboy said banned.  I parroted.

----------


## muh_roads

> I admit I didn't read.  I listened to Tre on that one.  Homeboy said banned.  I parroted.


Yeah Tre is kind of a loser when it comes to bitcoin.  He doesn't even own a whole bitcoin I don't think, but talks like a hot shot.  I heard he lost his ass buying 99 altcoins on polo, then sold the bottom on all of them...lol

----------


## presence

so its been a month since I posted about acquiring altcoins

my folding coin investment is going well; I'm it at 110 sat its at about 140 sat last, high of 164




> I'm very bullish
> 
> I'm acquiring altcoins; criteria: 
> 
> minimum price 100 sat
> linear support for all of 2016
>  making the 25/50 daily candle cross
>  buying the 25 day sma
> *
> ...


so of those mentioned

These never made the 25/50 bull cross and continued to slide; you should not have entered
each is still close to crossover so worth keeping an eye on

BURST 
CURE 
EMC2 
HUC 
NAUT 
NOES 
QBK 
XCP 
XEM


these two were both rated strong buy on dec 20:

FLDC open 0110 to high 0164; 142 last
XMR open 0109 to high 0169; 134 last

I'd continue HOLD both, I am holding FLDC
I'd also extend a BUY rating for both as they're both currently pulled back to the 25 day ema

Dash made the crossover, but never pulled back... straight moon; dash tends to move quick like this difficult entry; consider buying on pullback to the 25 day ema; it it gets too much further gone just let it go 

DASH 

you'd be in the money on any of these investments with entry as described on the 20th; I recommend HOLD all here

ETC 
FCT 
MAID 
POT 

you'd be break even on these, BUY/HOLD rated; both have a ton of potential; both on 25 day support entry

GRC 
IOC 


These I rate BUY right now, just made the cross currently on 25 day support entry

XBC
VIA
RUBY 
RADS

I'd also make the additional recommendation of buy for BTM which was not on the original list,
it just made the cross and is on support here


remember kids:





 *The 50 day average is altcoin Jesus*

----------


## presence

FLDC consolidating firmly on the topside of the rising 50 day

----------


## presence

> 






As expected the pivot to altcoins is under way

----------


## presence

curecoin is getting a orderbook graffiti pump; currently at 6000 sat up from 3500 earlier this week



for a sense of scale thats only a 25 bitcoin wall

ballsy

----------


## presence

now curtain pulled on cure and an "artificial" buy market installed at 6000 sat

Attachment 5573

pretty hocus pocus

lol

good luck

----------


## presence

anyone got the hype on pascal?

massive entry spike for an ICO

----------


## kpitcher

> anyone got the hype on pascal?
> 
> massive entry spike for an ICO


Someone was talking to me about it last month, I thought it was silly. It was in pascal, so what? Oops, maybe I should do the opposite of what I think

----------


## presence

so I did a bit of reading on pascal

seems to be 100% hype upon entry to polo pump dump situation

I don't see anything remarkable in the tech beyond the language

I did read something about how 80% of the existing coins are held by a single party on bitcoin talk... unverified

don't be a bag holder

----------


## presence

Next Chop
*SELL 1075
BUY 825*

----------


## kpitcher

Up 94% for the day on a 436 BTC vol. Nice climb, a number of other coins/tokens have been announced using their coin.

----------


## kfarnan

bullish...

----------


## presence

Honey Badger Dumped Last night

994 BTCe Exchange

"FINAL RUN OF THE BULLS"

----------


## presence

> China Bans Margin Trading
> 
> *Chinese Central Bank turns attention to bitcoin exchanges; Price ...*
> 
> Brave New Coin-12 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
> Actions of Chinese Government May Reduce Bitcoin Volatility ...
> newsBTC-22 hours ago



Fake Volume DEAD on chinese exchanges since China Crackdown

OKCOIN

 

BTCCHINA



HUOBI

----------


## fatjohn

Yeah well nobody disputes that there was fake volume. There is however also true volume. The true volume shows that each of the three Chinese exchanges are roughly as big as bitfinex on BTC trading. All trade about 10k/day.

On LTC trading though OKCoin has for the week 2,5 Million LTC trades! Huobi probably similarly, for comparison BTC-e still has the biggest LTC/USD margin and did not account for even 0.5 million trades. China is easily 5 times bigger than the US on LTC trading.

From this the BTC/fiat trade is lower than 100k/day while the LTC/fiat trade is probably around 1M/day. This while there are only 3 times as many LTC as BTC. 
The velocity of the LTC market is 3 times as high.

Add to this the hype that segwit might give, the all time low that was hit earlier today, the fact that bitcoin is very slow and litecoin incredibly fast concerning confirmation time and the following graph and I am incredibly bullish. (We are in the red circle, the rest is just an extrapolation.)

[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## presence



----------


## kfarnan

> 


no see.

----------


## presence

> no see.


maybe try and zoom ?!?

Click here to view the original image of 897x1044px

----------


## presence

*POLO EXTINCTION EVENT v1.0*
Open Source Backtest Engine for Poloniex.com


http://pastebin.com/mnMCvycQ





```
# Jan 2017

 
# submit script bunny tithing obligations below:
# (BTC) 1Hu7mVg4GudEcnRLN94oWC9Umh4JohNp3F
 
# custom bots, any technical indication rpfpresence@gmail.com
 
# dependencies: python 2.7, matplotlib 1.3.1, python-tk
 
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import numpy as np
import urllib2
import json
import math
import time
 
VERSION = 'POLO EXTINCTION EVENT v1.0 by litepresence'

 
# PAIR
CURRENCY = 'BTC'
ASSET = 'FLDC'
 
# ALPHA CROSS (DAYS)
MA1 = 16.66
MA2 = 50.00
 
# STATE MACHINE THRESHOLDS
SELLOFF = 1.5
DESPAIR = 0.75
CROSS = 1.02
 
# BACKTEST RESOLUTION
CANDLE = 14400
DAYS = 650
END = 9999999999 #9999999999 is to current; else unix
 
# STARTING PORTFOLIO
portfolio = {}
portfolio['assets'] = 0
portfolio['currency'] = 1
 
# INITIALIZED STORAGE VALUES
storage = {}
storage['trades'] = 0
 
# INFO OBJECTS
info = {}
info['begin'] = int(time.time())-DAYS*86400
info['tick'] = 0
info['interval'] = CANDLE
info['current_time'] = info['begin']
info['end']=info['begin']+DAYS*86400
 
# BACKTEST CONSTANTS
DEPTH = int(max(MA1,MA2)*(86400/CANDLE)+50)
START = info['begin']-(CANDLE*DEPTH)
SATOSHI = 0.00000001
ANTISAT = 100000000.0
 
def initialize():
 
    print(VERSION)
    print('~===BEGIN BACKTEST=======================~')
    if info['interval']  not in [300, 900, 1800, 7200, 14400, 86400]: 
        print ('Tick Interval must be in [300, 900, 1800, 7200, 14400, 86400]')
        raise stop()
 
def test_sell(price):
 
        now = time.ctime(info['current_time'])
        portfolio['currency'] = portfolio['assets']*price
        print ('[%s] %s SELL %.2f %s at %s sat value %.2f %s' % (now,
            storage['trades'], portfolio['assets'], ASSET, int(price)/SATOSHI, 
            portfolio['currency'], CURRENCY))
        portfolio['assets'] = 0
        plt.plot(info['current_time'],math.log(price),markersize=8,
            marker='o',color='coral',label='sell')
 
def test_buy(price):
 
        now = time.ctime(info['current_time'])
        portfolio['assets'] = portfolio['currency']/(price)
        print ('[%s] %s BUY %.2f %s at %s sat value %.2f %s' % (now,
            storage['trades'], portfolio['assets'], ASSET, int(price)/SATOSHI, 
            portfolio['currency'], CURRENCY))
        portfolio['currency'] = 0
        plt.plot(info['current_time'],math.log(price),markersize=8,
            marker='o',color='lime',label='buy')
    
def fetch_polo():
    
    candles={}
    asset = ASSET
    polo = asset + '_polo'
    candles[polo] = {}
    url = ('https://poloniex.com/public?command=returnChartData' + 
        '&currencyPair=%s_%s&start=%s&end=%s&period=%s' % 
        (CURRENCY,asset,START,END,CANDLE))
    ret = urllib2.urlopen(urllib2.Request(url))
    try: candles[polo] = json.loads(ret.read())
    except: pass
    print('*********%s%s*********'% (asset,CURRENCY))
    print('DEPTH......: %s' % len(candles[polo]))
    print('CANDLE.....: %s' % CANDLE)
    print('START DATE.: %s' % time.ctime(info['begin']))
    print('END DATE...: %s' % time.ctime(info['end']))
    print('1st CANDLE.: %s' % str(candles[polo][-(DAYS*86500/CANDLE)])[:200])
    print('LAST CANDLE: %s' % str(candles[polo][-1])[:200])
    storage[polo]={}
    storage[polo]['date']=[]
    storage[polo]['close'] = []
    storage[polo]['high'] = []
    storage[polo]['low'] = []
    for i in range(len(candles[polo])):
        storage[polo]['date'].append(candles[polo][i]['date'])
        storage[polo]['close'].append(candles[polo][i]['close'])
        storage[polo]['high'].append(candles[polo][i]['high'])
        storage[polo]['low'].append(candles[polo][i]['low'])     
 
def build_polo_candles():
 
    # allow (for asset in ASSET:) for multiple pairs
    asset = ASSET
    polo = asset + '_polo'
    polo_close = asset + '_polo_close'
    polo_high = asset + '_polo_high'
    polo_low = asset + '_polo_low'
    for i in range(len(storage[polo]['date'])):
        if (info['current_time'] <= 
            storage[polo]['date'][i] < 
            (info['current_time']+info['interval'])):
            storage[polo_close] = []
            storage[polo_high] = []
            storage[polo_low] = []            
            for j in range(DEPTH):
                try:
                    storage[polo_close].append(storage[polo]['close'][i-j])
                    storage[polo_high].append(storage[polo]['high'][i-j])
                    storage[polo_low].append(storage[polo]['low'][i-j])
                except: pass
            storage[polo_close] = storage[polo_close][::-1]
            storage[polo_high] = storage[polo_high][::-1]
            storage[polo_low] = storage[polo_low][::-1]
    storage['close'] = np.array(storage[polo_close])
    storage['high'] = np.array(storage[polo_high])
    storage['low'] = np.array(storage[polo_low])
 
def simple_mean():
 
    # CALCULATE SIMPLE MOVING AVERAGES
    close = storage['close']
    ma1_interval = int(MA1*86400/info['interval'])
    ma2_interval = int(MA2*86400/info['interval'])
    storage['ma1'] = np.sum(close[-ma1_interval:]) / len(close[-ma1_interval:])
    storage['ma2'] = np.sum(close[-ma2_interval:]) / len(close[-ma2_interval:])
 
 
def holdings():
 
    # STORE STARTING PORTFOLIO
    close = storage['close']
    if info['tick']==0:
        storage['begin_max_assets']=(
            portfolio['currency']/(close[-1])+portfolio['assets'])
        storage['begin_max_currency']=(
            portfolio['currency']+portfolio['assets']*(close[-1]))
        storage['start_price'] = close[-1]
            
def tick(): 
    
    build_polo_candles()
    holdings()
    simple_mean()
    state_machine()
    chart()
 
def state_machine():
 
    # SAMPLE MOVING AVERAGE CROSSOVER STRATEGY
    # YOUR STRATEGY GOES HERE:
 
    # LOCALIZE DATA
    ma1 = storage['ma1']
    ma2 = storage['ma2']
    close = storage['close']
    high = storage['high']
    low = storage['low']
 
    # ALPHA SIGNAL
    market_cross = False
    if 1.03*ma1>ma2:
        market_cross = True
 
    # STATE MACHINE - BULL MARKET
    mode = 0
    if market_cross:
        mode = 10
        if portfolio['currency'] > 0:
            if storage['close'][-1]<ma1:
                test_buy(price=storage['close'][-1])
                storage['trades']+=1
            
    # STATE MACHINE - BEAR MARKET
    else:
        mode = -10
        if portfolio['assets'] > 0:
            if storage['close'][-1]>ma1:
                test_sell(price=storage['close'][-1])       
                storage['trades']+=1
                
    storage['mode']=mode
 
 
def chart():
 
    # LOCALIZE DATA
    now = info['current_time']      
    ma1 = storage['ma1']
    ma2 = storage['ma2']
    close = storage['close']
    high = storage['high']
    low = storage['low']
    mode = storage['mode']
 
    # PLOT OBJECTS
    plt.plot(now,math.log(ma1),markersize=1,marker='.',
        color='white',label='ma1')
    plt.plot(now,math.log(ma2),markersize=2,marker='.',
        color='white',label='ma2')
    plt.plot(now,math.log(close[-1]),markersize=1,marker='.',
        color='aqua',label='close')
    plt.plot(now,math.log(high[-1]),markersize=1,marker='.',
        color='MediumSpringGreen',label='high')
    plt.plot(now,math.log(low[-1]),markersize=1,marker='.',
        color='darkmagenta',label='low')
 
 
def plot():
 
    # PLOT FORMAT
    try:
        ax = plt.gca()
        ax.set_axis_bgcolor('0.1')
        ax.yaxis.tick_right()
        ax.set_xlim(info['begin'], info['end'])
        ax.get_xaxis().get_major_formatter().set_useOffset(False)
        ax.get_xaxis().get_major_formatter().set_scientific(False)
        ax.ticklabel_format(useOffset=False, style='plain')
        ax.grid(True)
        plt.autoscale(enable=True, axis='y')
        #plt.autoscale(enable=True, axis='x')
        plt.gcf().autofmt_xdate(rotation=90)
        plt.title(VERSION+'PAIR: %s_%s' %
            (ASSET, CURRENCY))
        plt.tight_layout()
 
    except:
        print('plot format failed')
        pass
    # SHOW PLOT
    try:  
        plt.show()
        plt.pause(0.1)
    except:
        print('plot show failed')
 
def stop():
 
    # MOVE TO CURRENCY
    if portfolio['assets'] > 0:
        print('stop() EXIT TO CURRENCY')
        test_sell(price=storage['close'][-1]) 
    # CALCULATE RETURN ON INVESTMENT
    end_max_assets=(
        portfolio['currency']/(storage['close'][-1])+portfolio['assets'])
    end_max_currency=(
        portfolio['currency']+portfolio['assets']*(storage['close'][-1]))
    roi_assets = end_max_assets/storage['begin_max_assets']
    roi_currency = end_max_currency/storage['begin_max_currency']
    # FINAL REPORT
    print('===============================================================')
    print('START DATE........: %s' % time.ctime(info['begin']))
    print('END DATE..........: %s' % time.ctime(info['end']))
    print('START PRICE.......: %s satoshi' % ANTISAT*int(storage['start_price']))
    print('END PRICE.........: %s satoshi' % ANTISAT*int(storage['close'][-1]))
    print('START MAX ASSET...: %.2f %s' % (storage['begin_max_assets'],ASSET))
    print('END MAX ASSET.....: %.2f %s' % (end_max_assets,ASSET))
    print('ROI ASSET.........: %.1fX' % roi_assets)
    print('START MAX CURRENCY: %.2f %s' % (storage['begin_max_currency'],CURRENCY))
    print('END MAX CURRENCY..: %.2f %s' % (end_max_currency, CURRENCY))
    print('ROI CURRENCY......: %.1fX' % roi_currency)
    print('===============================================================')
    print(VERSION)
    print('~===END BACKTEST=========================~')
 
# PRIMARY EVENT LOOP
initialize()
fetch_polo()
 
while 1:
    if info['current_time'] < info['end']:
        info['current_time']+=CANDLE
        tick()
        info['tick']+=1
    else:
        stop()
        plot()
        break
```

----------


## roteiro

Thanks a lot for the information, it is really interesting for me! Which service do you guys usually use for buying Bitcoin? I want to try out the one at https://www.xmlgold.eu/ What do you think about it? Looks nice to me

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Bitcoin Mentioned For First Time Ever During The Super Bowl


https://bitconnect.co/bitcoin-news/4...he-super-bowl/

----------


## presence

> Next Chop
> *SELL 1075
> BUY 825*





bitcoin you are my bitch

----------


## presence

*Two of China's Biggest Exchanges Stop Bitcoin Withdrawals - CoinDesk*

www.coindesk.com › Huobi


2 hours ago 




> *Two of China's most widely used bitcoin exchanges
>  have announced that  they will 
> suspend bitcoin and litecoin withdrawals 
> for one month  effective immediately.*
>  Yuan recharge, withdrawals and other services will not be affected, the exchanges said.
>  In public posts that showcase the increasingly coordinated nature of exchange policy in the region, both OKCoin and Huobi  said today that the move was a bid to bolster their anti-money  laundering (AML) capabilities and prevent "illegal transactions".
>  Both OKCoin and Huobi indicated that their platforms would now go  through an “upgrade” to combat “money laundering, exchange, pyramid  schemes and other illegal activities”, though no further details were  provided.
>  BTCC, the other ‘Big Three’ domestic exchange, did not issue the update.
>  All told, the move comes amid a rocky period for local exchanges that  began with the wider scrutiny of major bitcoin exchanges by the  People's Bank of China (PBOC), the country's central bank.
> ...



*Chinese bitcoin exchanges says to strengthen scrutiny of customers ...*
2 hours ago -

----------


## kfarnan

> *Two of China's Biggest Exchanges Stop Bitcoin Withdrawals - CoinDesk*
> 
> www.coindesk.com › Huobi
> 
> 
> 2 hours ago 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Communism is anti-freedom & crypto

----------


## LibertyTeeth

Just made 37% on a pair of trades, FLDC and MAID, over a period of a  week and a half or so.  The latter was more profitable, but I thank  Litepresence for alerting me to the FLDC.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Anyone putting money on the March 11 SEC decision on whether to approve the Winks' ETF - COIN?

----------


## kfarnan

> Anyone putting money on the March 11 SEC decision on whether to approve the Winks' ETF - COIN?


Effs won't add real value.  Regulation is antithetical to the spirit of crypto.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Effs won't add real value.  Regulation is antithetical to the spirit of crypto.


I was referring to the legitimization of btc in the minds of mainstream institutional funds. I know the odds are currently stacked against the approval but clearly we're seeing a speculative price move atm.

----------


## fatjohn

God LTC/BTC at 0.0036 getting really pissed right now. Have been going more than 50% ltc since 0.00425

----------


## kpitcher

> God LTC/BTC at 0.0036 getting really pissed right now. Have been going more than 50% ltc since 0.00425


I haven't seen any big news on LTC for awhile. I think when Coinbase added ETH and didn't touch LTC it hurt the idea that LTC was the "silver" to BTC's "gold"

----------


## presence

Expect major delays moving funds.

Bitcoin at all time high unconfirmed transactions

Uncharted territory; flirting with 90k unconfirmed






https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count

----------


## presence

> CryptoCoinsNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRWidget
> 
>                                            BITCOIN PRICE:   1122.01  USD
>  HIGH:    1127.00  USD
> ...


https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitc...coming-common/

----------


## presence

Attachment 5636





> *Bitcoin Fork Soon? Bitcoin Unlimited Surges Past SegWit, Core Blocks Drop Below 75%*                                                                                                                             11976          Total views 
>       800     Total shares 
> 
> 
>  
> Bitcoin Unlimited blocks mined have reached a new high, passing SegWit and indicating that a hard fork may be just around the corner.
>   Of the last 144 blocks over the last 24 hours, blocks mined  by the Bitcoin Unlimited client have reached 28.5 percent of the  network total. This is the second time Unlimited has passed SegWit adoption this month and the first time Bitcoin Core blocks mined have dropped below 75 percent of the network total.
>   Bitcoin’s network load and resulting scaling issues have been the source of debate  and controversy in the community. In particular, the impetus to hard  fork Bitcoin to raise the block size limit beyond one megabyte has been a  central issue to this debate.
>   A new high in Bitcoin Unlimited’s adoption, which would  allow miners to mine blocks larger than one megabyte, may indicate that  the block size limit may be raised soon with the goal of alleviating Bitcoin’s network congestion problems.
> ...


https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitco...-drop-below-75

----------


## presence

> Following the re-adjustment of bitcoin’s network difficulty after a  sudden increase, a massive transaction backlog began developing  yesterday, leading to a torrent of complaints.
> $250 Million Are Currently Stuck in Limbo – _Image from TradeBlock_
> 
>  An incredible sum of 278,872.21 bitcoins, worth around a quarter of a  billion dollars, is currently in limbo, stuck in the ether, unable to  move. In response, angry users have littered public spaces to vent their  frustration at the situation. One of them is a representative from  Vaultoro, a bitcoin and gold exchange, who publicly stated:
>  “[W]e paid 0.0005 fee (45 cents) to get a client their withdrawal and  it took 17 hours to clear and actually only cleared because I put it  into the Viabtc transaction accelerator.”
>  As a bitcoin only (maximalists if you will) business, we are starting  to find it very hard. Clients get pissed off when we charge more for  withdrawals, they get pissed off when it takes ages to deposit and the  company gets the blame. If we raise fees, we get complaints and it  totally cuts out the developing world because some people live on 5  bucks a day so a 50 cent fee is too much for them to bother.”
>  Another user could not contain himself. After stating he mistakenly  entered a lower fee, the lack of any remedy made him feel the bitcoin network had told him to **** off:
>  “Obviously this is my fault. I should have set a higher fee… But I  didn’t. I made a newbie mistake. And now I’m *****ed. My money is there  but I can’t touch it until some random undetermined future date when the  tx drops out of the mem pool. Bitcoin just told me to go **** myself,  essentially.”
> *The New Normal?* One highly important mechanism of bitcoin’s system design is network  difficulty, a sort of calculator who measures the total network  hashpower and increases or decreases the difficulty of finding a block  reward of 12.5 btc based on whether the hashpower increased or  decreased. Accordingly, it adjusts every two weeks.
> ...


https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitc...llion-dollars/

----------


## kpitcher

It would not surprise me if banks or others concerned about bitcoin started churning out lots of transactions to deliberately slow things down.

----------


## kfarnan

THey said the internet won't scale too.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

To many morons in bitcoin blocking progress. Bitcoin could easily increase transaction capacity in weeks, just requires miners signaling segwit. Done, nearly double capacity, then schnorr signatures can be incorporated and save like 20% per transaction on size, then lightning network could deploy easily because of the malleability fix. Then if need more well, then we need to schedule a hardfork a year in advance for additional capacity. But even without a hardfork, we could easily with just what is on the table likely handle 5 times or more transactions and users, just requires the hard headed miners to stop being stupid.

----------


## fatjohn

And yet btc rises and ltc stalls, all my ltc transactions have always gone way faster than btc.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> And yet btc rises and ltc stalls, all my ltc transactions have always gone way faster than btc.


Well, I think that is wholly due to the fact there is virtually no retailer support for LTC. If LTC was accepted at even a quarter of the web sites Bitcoin is, the situation would be different. I've no idea why bitpay and coinbase shun litecoin, it wouldn't require much "new" coding to integrate it.

----------


## bullhammer

Hey Guys, an options player I know who is a wiz at math brought this article to my attention, I haven't looked at it closely yet but...... Litepresence I was hoping to get your  opinion on it !!!  TIAhttps://techcrunch.com/2017/02/23/security-researchers-announce-first-practical-sha-1-collision-attack/   

this refers to reversing hashes or something????

----------


## kfarnan

> Hey Guys, an options player I know who is a wiz at math brought this article to my attention, I haven't looked at it closely yet but...... Litepresence I was hoping to get your  opinion on it !!!  TIAhttps://techcrunch.com/2017/02/23/security-researchers-announce-first-practical-sha-1-collision-attack/   
> 
> this refers to reversing hashes or something????


thats' old hash tech, still used by credit cards and websites.  good reason not to use the credit cards.

----------


## bullhammer

@Litepresence......
this is part of a conversation with a friend I know, Leov, a math wiz and Options master.....

"Yes NP means Non-Polynomial and it means that a problem can't be solved just by brute force alone because increasing the complexity of the problem just a tiny bit makes it orders of magnitude harder to solve. The state of the art in mathematics is that hashing functions are irreversible in principle and that trying to reverse them computationally is an NP problem.
However it will take just a theoretical advance that shows how to reverse any hash problem and that will be it. The computation aspect will become irrelevant as the solution will either be in closed form, or if numerical then it will be done in polynomial time achieving the same effect.

He thinks this theory will debase all cryptos drastically

I am NOT of the same opinion myself, just wondering what your take is???

BTW hope all is well with you and yours

cheers, BH

----------


## fatjohn

In response to ronpaulisgreat

Yes but i think alot of traffic is between exchanges and polo bitfinex btc-e kraken okcoin all use ltc as well.

Seriously in this environment i would always transfer to ltc to send my funds around instead of having to wait hours and risk a massive btc crash in the meantime.

----------


## kfarnan

> thats' old hash tech, still used by credit cards and websites.  good reason not to use the credit cards.


sha-1 is not the same as sha-256.

----------


## muh_roads

> https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitc...llion-dollars/


People seem to forget that we're still competing with the ultra slow and expensive legacy bank wire transfer systems.  It costs $15-$45 in fees and 3-5 days to wire transfer amounts as small as three figures.  Even Paypal takes a long time despite being free.  It looks like you instantly received money through PayPal but you still can't touch the money for 3-4 days.  Most people already have money in their checking accounts so they don't really think about it.

As for the forks...
Segwit requires 95% consensus.
Bitcoin Unlimited requires 75% consensus.

It's a stalemate and neither is going to happen.  That is fine.  For the time being bitcoin won't be used as a micro-transaction method but it can still be used as store of value, of course.

My advice is to use a wallet like Mycelium.  It will help calculate the miner fees for you so you aren't waiting days.

----------


## muh_roads

Also, the latest version of Bitcoin-Core (v0.14) that just came out a couple days ago lets you go back and adjust the fee if things are taking too long for you.  **thumbs-up**

P.S. If you support the Segwit soft-fork method, you can signal your support by running a node.  Just run v0.13, 0.13.1, or 0.14

----------


## presence

> @Litepresence......
> []
> He thinks this theory will debase all cryptos drastically
> 
> I am NOT of the same opinion myself, just wondering what your take is???
> 
> BTW hope all is well with you and yours
> 
> cheers, BH


will look into; nursing injured rt elbow; can't type much atm sorry

----------


## kpitcher

Dash has been tearing things up the last few days.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

> Dash has been tearing things up the last few days.


PERSONIFICATION OF CRYPTOCURRENCY

----------


## fatjohn

Tradewave is shutting down! Effectieve as of end of march! Is cryptotrader now the only alternative to do bottrading?

----------


## kpitcher

> Tradewave is shutting down! Effectieve as of end of march! Is cryptotrader now the only alternative to do bottrading?


Most exchanges have APIs so you can control them with a bot if you want.

----------


## kfarnan

> Most exchanges have APIs so you can control them with a bot if you want.


still need a platform to run.  Unless you run your own 24/7.

----------


## dannno

Sounds like an OP question.

----------


## fatjohn

Damn this is dead. This is cryptocurrency thread not just bitcoin. And most of the alts are on RAGING FIRE! Ether is what? 40 bucks? Dash 90? Holy shamalazoo!!!

As a big LTC/BTC man (luckily I held 20% now 40% ether) I also want to note that the ratio now had three up waves in rapid concession. Anyone seeing ether and dash implode for a new wave for crypto 1.0? Still hoping for 2750 BTC and 50 LTC. 

I would like to see segwit as the catalyst though and it is not yet on the horizon.

----------


## presence

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-exch...tingency-plan/




> *Bitcoin Exchanges Unveil Hard Fork Contingency Plan*
> 
> Stan Higgins (@mpmcsweeney) |                                     Published on March 17, 2017 at 16:01 GMT                 News
> 
>  A group of nearly 20 exchanges has released contingency plans in the  event that the bitcoin network splits in two, creating two competing  currencies.
>  The exchanges are now planning to list Bitcoin Unlimited  (BU) as they would an alternative cryptocurrency, according to the  statement. BU is an alternate implementation of the bitcoin software  that seeks to expand the block size in an effort to scale the network's  capacity.
>  According to the statement  backed by Bitfinex, Bitstamp, BTCC,  Bitso, Bitsquare, Bitonic, Bitbank, Coinfloor, Coincheck, itBit,  QuadrigaCX, Bitt, Bittrex, Kraken, Ripio, ShapeShift, The Rock Trading  and Zaif  the exchanges would list the BU asset under the BTU or XBU  tickers in the event of a network split, which they collectively say  "may be inevitable".
>  Other exchanges, though not listed as signatories, are said to be  planning similar steps but have not signed on to this particular  statement.
>  The strategys emergence comes amid escalating tension  among those advocating for different scaling directions, and signals  that some are taking the prospect of a network split seriously. It also  follows statements from some in the exchange sector that preparations  for such an outcome are being made.
> ...





> As exchanges in the Bitcoin ecosystem, we face certain challenges that are unique to us. Specifically, we are collectively faced with addressing the very real possibility that a Bitcoin network split may occur in the future. Wed like to take the time to update the community on the procedure that we, as an industry, intend to follow in the event of a contentious hardfork activating on the Bitcoin network. First, we want to make it clear that we are not here to pass judgement on such an event. If miners want to direct their hashing power to an alternative and incompatible protocol implementation, that is their right. We believe, however, that such hardforks should be engendered through a consensus of miners   and 
>   users and, at this time, we have not achieved consensus.  As exchanges, we have a responsibility to maintain orderly markets that trade continuously 24/7/365. It is incumbent upon us to support a coherent, orderly, and industry-wide approach to preparing for and responding to a contentious hardfork. In the case of a Bitcoin hardfork, we cannot suspend operations and wait for a winner to emerge. Many of our platforms allow leveraged trading that requires markets to operate continuously. Due to operational requirements alone we are compelled to label an incompatible fork as a new asset. Since it appears likely we may see a hardfork initiated by the Bitcoin Unlimited project, we have decided to designate the Bitcoin Unlimited fork as BTU (or XBU). The Bitcoin Core implementation will continue to trade as BTC (or XBT) and all exchanges will process deposits and withdrawals in BTC 
>   even if 
>    the BTU chain has more hashing power. Some exchanges intend to list BTU and all of us will try to take steps to preserve and enable access to customers BTU. However, none of the undersigned can list BTU unless we can run 
>   both 
>   chains independently without incident. Consequently, we insist that the Bitcoin Unlimited community (or any other consensus breaking implementation) build in strong 
>   two-way 
>    replay protection. Failure to do so will impede our ability to preserve BTU for customers and will either delay or outright preclude the listing of BTU. In summary, if a contentious hardfork occurs, the Bitcoin Core implementation will continue to be listed as BTC (or XBT) and the new fork as BTU (or XBU), but not without adequate replay protection. We do this not out of judgement or philosophical reasons but rather for practical and operational considerations. While a contentious forking event may be inevitable, and may ultimately provide a path forward for on-chain capacity increases, we have an obligation to our customers to provide a clear and consistent plan to minimize potential confusion surrounding such an event. We welcome any and all assistance that the development community may offer in reducing the risk inherent with such a pivotal moment in Bitcoins history. We are:


 







https://coin.dance/nodes/all/log

----------


## kpitcher

Dash keeps going UP UP UP. I see the Dash itself is saying they expect a 1 billion dollar market cap and at this rate I don't doubt it as they're now at 700MM. 

All alts are going up..except chronobank TIME. Maybe once they start doing actual labor contracts that will change.

----------


## BUTSRSLY

LOLCOIN

----------


## fatjohn

LTC mooned and this thread is quiet as hell. Whats going on people?

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> LTC mooned and this thread is quiet as hell. Whats going on people?


Yep, saw that spike and I immediately had to check in here to see what's up, and nothing. Are we going to see segwit being launched on ltc and this is only the beginning? Eth, Dash, Zec, BTC+ all went up several hundred percent over a few months.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Is LTC Really About to Make a Huge Run on BTC?

----------


## merkelstan

great weekend for Ripple!

----------


## kpitcher

DOGE is up 30%, up to 40 satoshi. That's breaking a long period of downward movement

----------


## kpitcher

Here's a nice site watching various alt coins. Can sort the columns with a click

http://alt19.com/

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Don't miss out on the LTC segwit signaling run (just above 70% on its way to passing the 75% threshold), new ATH potential in the mix. Currently, $10.30 or .0093 LTC/BTC.

----------


## bitman

If u wanna get on the LTC wagon, now is a good time. we are super close to the support line and the chinese already broke the previous highs and r waiting there for the others  I am setting tight stops under the support line to sleep peacefully

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## kpitcher

CUREcoin price dropped by over 50% today on news it may be delisted on POLO. This may be a good time to pick some up for when it recovers.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## fatjohn

Hey Pres, seems pennycoins are being pumped because people think they're cheap. I havent seen so many clueless people on the reddit boards. Anyway decided to play the game with a minor holding so I jumped on the cheapest coin on polo, folding coin. Still bullish?

----------


## merkelstan

The last BTC surge was 7:1, this could go a while further but it does look like it's slowing.

----------


## bitman

doesnt seem to be slowing down yet

----------


## merkelstan

> doesnt seem to be slowing down yet


Your graph refers to cryptocurrency market cap excluding bitcoin.  I was referring to the trend of the BITCOIN price last i checked (around the 18th).

----------


## merkelstan

I jumped onto the trading altcoin bandwagon beginning of May (and did quite poorly chasing pumps and holding strange losers like PIVX).

Made some fun memes while I was at it.




And for the PIVX community:

----------


## bullhammer

Given the huge increase in crypto activity , I'm surprised there is no one in here lately at all!?!?! Anyways hope you all made a killing during this epic run we've had! Litepresence! Any chance you looked further into that question I asked you earlier in my last comments?

----------


## presence

iAUGUR:
REPbtc at Poloniex will be 0.0177 before it sees 0.0077 again.
REPusdt at Poloniex will be 46.16 before it sees 18.11 again.
Both of these events will resolve in the next 60 days.






https://www.reddit.com/r/Augur/comme...mble_forecast/

----------


## presence

https://medium.com/@AugurProject/aug...t-eebdea0f0196




> Augur[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]Follow[/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.44)]An open-source, decentralized, peer-to-peer prediction market platform built on Ethereum.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.44)]May 31[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]*Augur Weekly Development Update — May 31st*[IMG]https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*awgOluJzOP5sIdxxnzamUw.png[/IMG]
> 
> A re skin of the main account page will be merged in the coming days, wrapping up all the full-screen re skins before we begin working with IDEO. Our six week collaboration with them starts next week!
> ...

----------


## presence



----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## kfarnan

> most usecases of ALT coins don't need a censorship resistant blockchain.
> 
> lots of noobs don't understand that.. but well have fun gambling... heh trading.


explain..

----------


## Mordan

> explain..


let's start with : is it valuable to store billions of coffee purchases on the blockchain? When do you need censorship resistant money? 

Why would you need to store Instagram images (insert all the alt coin usescases) on a blockchain using a paid token?

----------


## kpitcher

Bitcoin is heating up just from the number of job offers I've been getting this year.

Today's 
"Client is expanding heavily in the Blockchain space,
They are open to Direct Hire. Straight Contract or Right to hire.
Looking for various levels of talent ( Architect/Lead/Developer ).
They will soon announce a partnership with a major Blockchain industry leader ( confidential)
They also have a number of large Financial organizations and starts up that they are partnered with to drive their technology
"

NYC if anyone's interested, I'd forward it along.

----------


## AZJoe



----------


## AZJoe



----------


## AZJoe



----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## kpitcher

Bitcoin has only reached 1% of its potential, according to a finance specialist at the World Bank

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitco...al-expert-blog

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## RonPaulIsGreat

> Bitcoin has only reached 1% of its potential, according to a finance specialist at the World Bank
> 
> https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitco...al-expert-blog


Better than the bestest porn.... 1 million/ btc..... drool... I need a smoke.

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## FSP-Rebel



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## Adam88

I really want to believe in bitcoin, but i'm trying to use logic and can't find any reason why course should be at least 50k per 1 bitcoin. Especially right now. Government and banks are trying to kill it's main idea of decentralization, hackers are robbing crypto exchanges (like it happened with Zaif). Moreover a lot of scam-altcoins appear each day. All that reasons cause people not to believe in cryptocurrencies.

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## kpitcher

> I really want to believe in bitcoin, but i'm trying to use logic and can't find any reason why course should be at least 50k per 1 bitcoin. Especially right now. Government and banks are trying to kill it's main idea of decentralization, hackers are robbing crypto exchanges (like it happened with Zaif). Moreover a lot of scam-altcoins appear each day. All that reasons cause people not to believe in cryptocurrencies.


It's young tech, it's still a good time to get involved. 

Bitcoin is 10 years old. The commercial Internet could be said to have started in 1985 when the first .com was registered. Not much in the way of general acceptance by 1995. 

That's when things just started getting exciting.

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## Adam88

> It's young tech, it's still a good time to get involved. 
> 
> Bitcoin is 10 years old. The commercial Internet could be said to have started in 1985 when the first .com was registered. Not much in the way of general acceptance by 1995. 
> 
> That's when things just started getting exciting.


Well, there is logic in your words, and i might even happen in future. 
Hope we'll see what happen in future.

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## kpitcher

Looks like GAB is trying to raise money via an ICO to fund their platform. Already has raised a few million

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael...ndestructible/

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## fatjohn

Anybody thinks this was capitulation day? Played my cards wrong and went in too early :'(
Highest volume since April 25th on both bitfinex and bitstamp.
Bitcoin kept selling off whilst alts started to firm first. I think that's a good sign.
All we need is for bitcoin to pop over 5k and a small rally might finally start.

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## oyarde

> It's young tech, it's still a good time to get involved. 
> 
> Bitcoin is 10 years old. The commercial Internet could be said to have started in 1985 when the first .com was registered. Not much in the way of general acceptance by 1995. 
> 
> That's when things just started getting exciting.


I agree , time will tell .

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## Exmiller77

Investment in cryptomoney is growing at a rapid rate compared to other types of investment. I continue to invest in Forex as I know how to move through it, I take advantage of this to leave a list of forex brokers.

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## bullhammer

Hello to Litepresence wherever you are! Im sure youve done well given how crypto did since we last chatted! All the best buddy!! Yeah LITECOIN!!! 🚀 🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀

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