# Start Here > Guest Forum >  Is it OK for foreigners to participate in the forums?

## Iranian

Hi everyone,
I just registered here. I live in Iran and I'm not well-informed about American internal affairs, but I have read some of Ron Paul's interviews and I have to say that I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas regarding the US-Iran relations. Even though I can't support anyone, but I follow some politicians like Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. I checked some of the threads on here and I thought maybe joining you guys would be a good idea.

So, is it OK for me to join here? Or is it an American-exclusive website?

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## juleswin

I am Nigerian, so I guess its OK to be a foreigner. Plus we have had quite a few indians on the forum. Not red indians but red dot indians

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## angelatc

You're more than welcome here.  Welcome.

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## acptulsa

We have had many valued participants from outside the U.S.  Welcome!

There are paid shills here posing as fervent patriots.  They _will_ give you a hard time in an effort to shut you up, and the moderator will _not_ make them behave and obey forum guidelines.  I apologize in advance for them.

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## juleswin

> Hi everyone,
> I just registered here. I live in Iran and I'm not well-informed about American internal affairs, but I have read some of Ron Paul's interviews and I have to say that I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas regarding the US-Iran relations. Even though I can't support anyone, but I follow some politicians like Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. I checked some of the threads on here and I thought maybe joining you guys would be a good idea.
> 
> So, is it OK for me to join here? Or is it an American-exclusive website?


Welcome to the forum. Do you have a nickname? it feels weird referring to you as Iranian

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## CCTelander

Welcome.

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## PursuePeace

Welcome.

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## timosman



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## Iranian

Thank you all. Honestly, I didn't expect to receive this many replies and I'm pleasantly surprised to see all the welcome messages. 
 @juleswin: Sure. Call me Arash.

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## FunkBuddha

> Hi everyone,
> I just registered here. I live in Iran and I'm not well-informed about American internal affairs, but I have read some of Ron Paul's interviews and I have to say that I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas regarding the US-Iran relations. Even though I can't support anyone, but I follow some politicians like Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. I checked some of the threads on here and I thought maybe joining you guys would be a good idea.
> 
> So, is it OK for me to join here? Or is it an American-exclusive website?


Glad to have you. I appreciate new perspectives.

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## oyarde

> Hi everyone,
> I just registered here. I live in Iran and I'm not well-informed about American internal affairs, but I have read some of Ron Paul's interviews and I have to say that I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas regarding the US-Iran relations. Even though I can't support anyone, but I follow some politicians like Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. I checked some of the threads on here and I thought maybe joining you guys would be a good idea.
> 
> So, is it OK for me to join here? Or is it an American-exclusive website?


Should be OK , they let Nigerians , Canadians  etc on here . I suggest you spend more time following Ron and Rand Paul and less on Bernie and Tulsi . Have fun

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## Unregistered

Foreigners are even more OK than Americans, if said Americans espouse views that the forum owners disagree with.

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## brushfire

Welcome!

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## Origanalist

> Thank you all. Honestly, I didn't expect to receive this many replies and I'm pleasantly surprised to see all the welcome messages. 
>  @juleswin: Sure. Call me Arash.


I kind of like Iranian, you could change it to "The Iranian". 

Anyway, welcome.

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## tod evans

> Should be OK , they let Nigerians , Canadians  etc on here . I suggest you spend more time following Ron and Rand Paul and less on Bernie and Tulsi . Have fun


There's even the token socialist Limey slithering around.

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## fisharmor

Welcome!  I would love to know more about you and what things are like in Iran.

One thing you'll find out sooner or later is that a number of us here really don't place any importance on being from America, at all.  Some people here do place importance on being ethnically American but I am here to represent the faction of us that find that idea monstrous.

Being an American is no more or less than believing that every human being, whether in the United States or not, has inalienable, natural rights.

I am all too happy to export that idea to the rest of the globe, and I am all too happy to welcome those who already share it.

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## juleswin

> Should be OK , they let Nigerians , Canadians  etc on here . I suggest you spend more time following Ron and Rand Paul and less on Bernie and Tulsi . Have fun


Nigerian(s)?, I don't think so, I am the only one around. And no, I wasn't let in, I let myself in like a boss.

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## oyarde

> There's even the token socialist Limey slithering around.


$#@! I forgot about Republikanguy

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## Iranian

> Should be OK , they let Nigerians , Canadians  etc on here . I suggest you spend more time following Ron and Rand Paul and less on Bernie and Tulsi . Have fun


But isn't Ron Paul now too old for running for presidency? I know that his son Rand Paul is a senator, representing Kentucky if I'm not mistaken, but I don't think that they have the same views regarding the US-Iran relations.

And what do you have against Bernie and Tulsi? Is it just about being affiliated with the democratic party?




> I kind of like Iranian, you could change it to "The Iranian". 
> 
> Anyway, welcome.


Yeah. That's a good idea. I thought that maybe I wasn't the only Iranian here because there's a sizeable population of Iranian-Americans living in California but if I happen to be the only Iranian, I think The Iranian sounds a lot better.




> Welcome!  I would love to know more about you and what things are like in Iran.
> 
> One thing you'll find out sooner or later is that a number of us here really don't place any importance on being from America, at all.  Some people here do place importance on being ethnically American but I am here to represent the faction of us that find that idea monstrous.
> 
> Being an American is no more or less than believing that every human being, whether in the United States or not, has inalienable, natural rights.
> 
> I am all too happy to export that idea to the rest of the globe, and I am all too happy to welcome those who already share it.


Great! I'd be happy to discuss any issues related to Iran and the ongoing situation between the US and Iran with you. I don't think we have a separate thread for Iran in the world affairs forum but if there's a place for that that I'm not aware of, please do tell me.

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## oyarde

> But isn't Ron Paul now too old for running for presidency? I know that his son Rand Paul is a senator, representing Kentucky if I'm not mistaken, but I don't think that they have the same views regarding the US-Iran relations.
> 
> And what do you have against Bernie and Tulsi? Is it just about being affiliated with the democratic party?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. That's a good idea. I thought that maybe I wasn't the only Iranian here because there's a sizeable population of Iranian-Americans living in California but if I happen to be the only Iranian, I think The Iranian sounds a lot better.
> 
> 
> ...


Bernie and Tulsi are anti second amendmant tax and spend socialist- communists who have nothing to offer the American people except more debt and less liberty. This is true of those in the dem party on the national level , congress and senate  . Other than that they could be fine . Maybe as garbage workers or dog catchers .

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## oyarde

> But isn't Ron Paul now too old for running for presidency? I know that his son Rand Paul is a senator, representing Kentucky if I'm not mistaken, but I don't think that they have the same views regarding the US-Iran relations.
> 
> And what do you have against Bernie and Tulsi? Is it just about being affiliated with the democratic party?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. That's a good idea. I thought that maybe I wasn't the only Iranian here because there's a sizeable population of Iranian-Americans living in California but if I happen to be the only Iranian, I think The Iranian sounds a lot better.
> 
> 
> ...


Bernie and Tulsi are anti second amendmant tax and spend socialist- communists who have nothing to offer the American people except more debt and less liberty. This is true of those in the dem party on the national level , congress and senate  . Other than that they could be fine . Maybe as garbage workers or dog catchers .

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## TheTexan

Reporting this thread to the Office of Foreign Assets Control.

For violating sanctions on dealings with Iran.

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## Iranian

> Bernie and Tulsi are anti second amendmant tax and spend socialist- communists who have nothing to offer the American people except more debt and less liberty. This is true of those in the dem party on the national level , congress and senate  . Other than that they could be fine . Maybe as garbage workers or dog catchers .


Are Americans against public healthcare? Why? I think that's something we should discuss in another thread.




> Reporting this thread to the Office of Foreign Assets Control.
> 
> For violating sanctions on dealings with Iran.


That was a good one. :P

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## Danke



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## juleswin

> Are Americans against public healthcare? Why? I think that's something we should discuss in another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> That was a good one. :P


How do you know he is joking? TheTexan is an american loving, flag waving, apple pie eating, big truck and tits loving American. He is the govt's minder on this site and you should take his posts very seriously or else.

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## Danke

> How do you know he is joking? TheTexan is an american loving, flag waving, apple pie eating, big truck and tits loving American. He is the govt's minder on this site and you should take his posts very seriously or else.


To the Iranian.  Nobody takes The Nigerian seriously.  Be careful of him and his relatives, you'll be receiving emails from them soon.

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## oyarde

> Are Americans against public healthcare? Why? I think that's something we should discuss in another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> That was a good one. :P


Ya , see the thing about health care is paying for it . I don't want to pay for anyone else's .

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## juleswin

> To the Iranian.  Nobody takes The Nigerian seriously.  Be careful of him and his relatives, you'll be receiving emails from them soon.


All this hate is not good for your arteries. You have to quit so you will have more active years to share with your lady boys. Have you heard the joke about the hater, the Iranian and the Nigerian walking into a bar?

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## Danke

> All this hate is not good for your arteries. You have to quit so you will have more active years to share with your lady boys. Have you heard the joke about the hater, the Iranian and the Nigerian walking into a bar?


I will stop the hate when your Prince relative returns my elderly mother's money.

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## oyarde

> Reporting this thread to the Office of Foreign Assets Control.
> 
> For violating sanctions on dealings with Iran.


I see your point . He could be a persian Quds spy trying to sow discontent and single payer and other unamerican activities .

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## tod evans

> Are Americans against public healthcare? Why?


Remember this; "Everything government gets involved in it $#@!s up."


There are no exceptions to this rule, it's like gravity.

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## pcosmar

> Thank you all. Honestly, I didn't expect to receive this many replies and I'm pleasantly surprised to see all the welcome messages. 
>  @juleswin: Sure. Call me Arash.


Hi ya.. I'm Pete..

Some of us have been here long enough to be family,, 

I like the Country of Iran,, would love to visit despite politics,, but that is unlikely.
Some of us even oppose what our government has been up to..

I can not think of a better place to leave my old bones than where civilization started.

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## Swordsmyth

I find it suspicious that the Iranian already has two green bars in spite of the fact he hasn't said anything worth repping.
If he's legitimate then he's welcome so long as he plays by the rules but I will be watching to see if he's a phony sockpuppet.

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## Origanalist

> I find it suspicious that the Iranian already has two green bars in spite of the fact he hasn't said anything worth repping.
> If he's legitimate then he's welcome so long as he plays by the rules but I will be watching to see if he's a phony sockpuppet.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha

You're such a douchbag.

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## Swordsmyth

> Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> 
> You're such a douchbag.


Is he your sockpuppet?

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## Origanalist

> Is he your sockpuppet?


Yes. Contact Admin immediately.

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## CCTelander

> Ha ha ha ha ha ha
> 
> You're such a douchbag.



That's MR. Douchebag to we mere Mundanes.

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## Origanalist

> That's MR. Douchebag to we mere Mundanes.


I could never hope to achieve that level of greatness.

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## CCTelander

> I could never hope to achieve that level of greatness.



I hear you, brother. I'm in awe.

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## Iranian

> Remember this; "Everything government gets involved in it $#@!s up."
> 
> 
> There are no exceptions to this rule, it's like gravity.


That's an interesting point of view, but then why do you pay tax if you don't expect any service in return? So it seems that there are some exceptions to this rule and that's why American taxpayers pay money to the government.




> Hi ya.. I'm Pete..
> 
> Some of us have been here long enough to be family,, 
> 
> I like the Country of Iran,, would love to visit despite politics,, but that is unlikely.
> Some of us even oppose what our government has been up to..
> 
> I can not think of a better place to leave my old bones than where civilization started.


Hi Pete. You're welcome to visit Iran. But if you have your own reasons for not visiting Iran, you can check vlogs by Americans visiting Iran on YouTube.




> I find it suspicious that the Iranian already has two green bars in spite of the fact he hasn't said anything worth repping.
> If he's legitimate then he's welcome so long as he plays by the rules but I will be watching to see if he's a phony sockpuppet.


Yeah. I was surprised to see a lot of people repped me for my first post. I think people just wanted to be welcoming and show they have nothing against me joining the forums.




> Ya , see the thing about health care is paying for it . I don't want to pay for anyone else's .


Yeah, but the same argument applies to many other issues like social security, welfare, education, etc. Do you also oppose social security?

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## timosman

> I hear you, brother. I'm in awe.

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## Danke

> That's an interesting point of view, but then why do you pay tax if you don't expect any service in return? So it seems that there are some exceptions to this rule and that's why American taxpayers pay money to the government.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Pete. You're welcome to visit Iran. But if you have your own reasons for not visiting Iran, you can check vlogs by Americans visiting Iran on YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. I was surprised to see a lot of people repped me for my first post. I think people just wanted to be welcoming and show they have nothing against me joining the forums.
> ...


If you don't pay the taxes, men come to your house with guns and throw you in a cage.

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## tod evans

> That's an interesting point of view, but then why do you pay tax if you don't expect any service in return? So it seems that there are some exceptions to this rule and that's why American taxpayers pay money to the government.


I pay taxes to avoid prison.

No other reason.

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## timosman

> If you don't pay the taxes, men come to your house with guns and throw you in a cage.


Taxes must be an unknown concept in Iran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Iran

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## Iranian

> If you don't pay the taxes, men come to your house with guns and throw you in a cage.


Then what is the second amendment for if it can't defend you against those men?




> I pay taxes to avoid prison.
> 
> No other reason.


And if someone is willing to give you something in return for your money, that makes him bad?



> Taxes must be an unknown concept in Iran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Iran


Taxes in Iran are low compared to other countries (thanks to our energy resources), but even so, education in public schools and universities is free and we pay a lot less for healthcare than the US (which happens to have one of the world's leading medical infrastructure but it overcharges her citizens). For example, for a patient without health insurance, x-rays cost about $5 to $50 at maximum while x-rays cost a lot higher than that in the US. Sometimes even higher than $1000.

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## tod evans

> And if someone is willing to give you something in return for your money, that makes him bad?


I have no choice in the "transaction" which in effect makes it robbery.

How about if I give you a receipt and a brightly colored bauble for half your income..........Would you look favorably on the transaction? 

How about if I could shoot you and take all of your income and belongings if you demurred? 

Understand now?

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## phill4paul

> Then what is the second amendment for if it can't defend you against those men?
> 
> 
> And if someone is willing to give you something in return for your money, that makes him bad?
> 
> Taxes in Iran are low compared to other countries (thanks to our energy resources), but even so, education in public schools and universities is free and we pay a lot less for healthcare than the US (which happens to have one of the world's leading medical infrastructure *but it overcharges her citizens*). For example, for a patient without health insurance, x-rays cost about $5 to $50 at maximum while x-rays cost a lot higher than that in the US. Sometimes even higher than $1000.


   In America we must use gender neutral nouns. It is patriarchal to regard America as a female. Therefore, use "he/she." Or just the non-specific "America." 

  This may help and guide you in the nuances of today's American gender-neutral landscape so that you might become a better poster on boards with woke readerships...

https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-a...sive-language/

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## Iranian

> I have no choice in the "transaction" which in effect makes it robbery.
> 
> How about if I give you a receipt and a brightly colored bauble for half your income..........Would you look favorably on the transaction? 
> 
> How about if I could shoot you and take all of your income and belongings if you demurred? 
> 
> Understand now?


Yes, I understand your point. But I meant something else. Somebody here said that Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders are good as garbage workers because they have socialist/communist ideas. The thing is: if you have to pay something by force, you'd better receive something in return for it. No? Whether people like Bernie Sanders get elected or not, you still have to pay taxes. Now someone like Bernie Sanders says that in return for your taxes, you can get cheaper education and better healthcare. How's that something bad?

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## timosman

> Now someone like Bernie Sanders says that in return for your taxes, you can get cheaper education and better healthcare. How's that something bad?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

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## Iranian

> In America we must use gender neutral nouns. It is patriarchal to regard America as a female. Therefore, use "he/she." Or just the non-specific "America." 
> 
>   This may help and guide you in the nuances of today's American gender-neutral landscape so that you might become a better poster on boards with woke readerships...
> 
> https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-a...sive-language/


Thanks. I'm aware that English is trying to use gender neutral pronouns. I always use "they" when I want to refer to a person without referring to their gender but I didn't know that calling the US "she" would offend people.

Fun fact: Persian is a gender neutral language. We do not have masculine or feminine nouns or pronouns. If English were a neutral language too, learning it would've become much easier for people like me.

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## oyarde

> That's an interesting point of view, but then why do you pay tax if you don't expect any service in return? So it seems that there are some exceptions to this rule and that's why American taxpayers pay money to the government.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Pete. You're welcome to visit Iran. But if you have your own reasons for not visiting Iran, you can check vlogs by Americans visiting Iran on YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. I was surprised to see a lot of people repped me for my first post. I think people just wanted to be welcoming and show they have nothing against me joining the forums.
> ...


I oppose all fed govt welfare . There is nobody less capable of doing it than they . SS is different . I have never drawn SS . Lets say I did. At no time could I have drawn it and lived long enough to have gotten back what I pd in the just the first 35 yrs I pd into it . So , yeah if they just want to give me a check for my money back I would be good with that . Charity is for private organizations like Churches that are most capable of handling others money.

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## Iranian

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud


What about Scandinavian countries that are run by taxes and they offer free education and public health insurance to their citizens?

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## Iranian

> I oppose all fed govt welfare . There is nobody less capable of doing it than they . SS is different . I have never drawn SS . Lets say I did. At no time could I have drawn it and lived long enough to have gotten back what I pd in the just the first 35 yrs I pd into it . So , yeah if they just want to give me a check for my money back I would be good with that . Charity is for private organizations like Churches that are most capable of handling others money.


Yes, I see your point. But what if someone goes bankrupt? Does that mean they should die because they don't have enough money to cover their treatment costs? Or what about people with disabilities? Or veterans? Or orphans?

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## tod evans

> Yes, I understand your point. But I meant something else. Somebody here said that Tulsi Gabbard and Bernie Sanders are good as garbage workers because they have socialist/communist ideas. The thing is: if you have to pay something by force, you'd better receive something in return for it. No? Whether people like Bernie Sanders get elected or not, you still have to pay taxes. Now someone like Bernie Sanders says that in return for your taxes, you can get cheaper education and better healthcare. How's that something bad?


For generations politicians have promised the moon and delivered $#@! sandwiches, so much so that stopping their reckless spending dead in its tracks would leave my grandchildren paying on the debt. 

Buying into socialistic rhetoric because it sounds like maybe the commoner might get a snippet before the house of cards comes crashing down is foolish.

Gabbard gets kudos for her view on war alone, her socialist leanings counteract that view immensely. 

Refer to my first post in your thread where "Everything government gets involved in it $#@!s up."  I know it's difficult to imagine but think of lesser quality schools that cost more, lesser quality healthcare that cost more and of course increased taxes to fund the cause de-jour because of all the government oversight and regulation....

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## oyarde

> Yes, I see your point. But what if someone goes bankrupt? Does that mean they should die because they don't have enough money to cover their treatment costs? Or what about people with disabilities? Or veterans? Or orphans?


Veterans can use the VA medical system , private charity would be there for those who are truly in need if people had more of own money to donate . Americans are the most generous people in the world. I once knew a girl I went to school with . No job , no ins. Got a heart transplant and the hospital picked up the tab with donation money.

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## tod evans

> What about Scandinavian countries that are run by taxes and they offer free education and public health insurance to their citizens?


Every one of them has a smaller population than the socialist mecca of California. 

And just look at the mess Ca. is in with its ability to fleece the rest of the nation.

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## tod evans

> Yes, I see your point. But what if someone goes bankrupt? Does that mean they should die because they don't have enough money to cover their treatment costs? Or what about people with disabilities? Or veterans? Or orphans?


What about small local communities having the monies paid to the federal government in the peoples wallets?

Humanity will provide for its lesser able if humanity isn't taxed to pay federal oversight.

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## Danke

> T
> 
> Taxes in Iran are low compared to other countries (thanks to our energy resources),


That oil belongs to us.

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## juleswin

> Yes, I see your point. But what if someone goes bankrupt? Does that mean they should die because they don't have enough money to cover their treatment costs? Or what about people with disabilities? Or veterans? Or orphans?


This whole economic part wouldn't make sense immediately. You gonna need to do a lot of reading and in time you will get it. Btw the economic message is that last message I got. Foreign policy brought me in just like you and economic message came much later.

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## Origanalist

> 


That won't be me, I haven't spent all my time in front of a computer.

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## phill4paul

> Thanks. I'm aware that English is trying to use gender neutral pronouns. I always use "they" when I want to refer to a person without referring to their gender but I didn't know that calling the US "she" would offend people.
> 
> Fun fact: Persian is a gender neutral language. We do not have masculine or feminine nouns or pronouns. If English were a neutral language too, learning it would've become much easier for people like me.


 I could tell you were a woke individual from a woke culture. Your choice of a user name does not denote a specific gender. Had I known 12yrs. ago what today's culture demands I would probably have chosen "american4ex-congressperson."

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## Superfluous Man

> Are Americans against public healthcare?


Most Americans support public healthcare, as evidenced by the people they keep electing to public office. Very few politicians who oppose spending taxpayer money on healthcare can get elected to any office where they could vote on that issue, and those that do find that they need to make all sorts of compromises to assure people that they won't actually vote to decrease healthcare spending until after some other things that are never going to happen get accomplished.

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## Swordsmyth

> Thanks. I'm aware that English is trying to use gender neutral pronouns. I always use "they" when I want to refer to a person without referring to their gender but I didn't know that calling the US "she" would offend people.
> 
> Fun fact: Persian is a gender neutral language. We do not have masculine or feminine nouns or pronouns. If English were a neutral language too, learning it would've become much easier for people like me.


Phill4paul is joking, he is one of the last people on earth who would cooperate with the "gender neutral" garbage.

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## fisharmor

> education in public schools and universities is free and we pay a lot less for healthcare than the US (which happens to have one of the world's leading medical infrastructure but it overcharges her citizens).


There are two different problems to discuss on both of these topics.  For both education (and that includes LOWER education as well) and healthcare, there is the topic of prices in general, and the topic of how to increase access to the goods and services that are more expensive.

On the first topic, overall prices, the general axiom that most of us here recognize (there's nothing to _believe_ in here - we're talking an axiom that is self-evident) is that, in the absence of state interference, increased market demand leads to competition, which leads to both innovation and lower prices.

When there is demand for a good or service, and new actors are free to enter the market at will, there will be a tendency to try to drive prices lower because that is the easiest way, in a totally free market, to capture customers.  Lower prices can be achieved either through a competitor simply being willing to live with less, or through that competitor innovating his way into lower prices and keeping his profit margins.

Right now, in America anyway, medicine is a bigger problem than education, because the cost of education here has been driven down to practically nothing.  Oh, it still costs a ton of money to get a _degree_, but the education is literally free.  All you need is a device that can connect to the internet and YouTube.  You can get an entire year of access to YouTube on a phone that also does other things, for less money than a one-semester junior college course costs.  So the answer to "Education is free in Iran" is that education is also free in America.  We just did it differently... and as a result, more and more parents are getting more and more comfortable with keeping their children out of public schools by choice.  Most kids can get the same amount of education in one hour that public schools take almost 7 hours to teach.

I say medicine is a bigger problem because medicine here (and also, I suspect, in Iran) is a cartel system.  It is not a free market.  We are constantly having court cases here on things that are as frivolous as SHOES, because, as the faulty reasoning goes, you can't make a claim that your shoe is better for someone's feet without acting in the capacity of a physician.  I won't say that education is free from government interference (because there's a lot of it), but medicine is much worse - and as a result, much more expensive.

There has been a thing called 'medical tourism' in the US for over a decade now - because it is well known at this point that if you need an expensive but routine procedure done, you can get a free trip to Costa Rica out of it, because the cost of air travel, hotel, dining, and the entire vacation, PLUS the surgery, is still less than what the surgery would cost in the US - and the service in the foreign physician offices is way better, too.

Part of that might be due to exchange rates, and part might be due to the local economy in the other country being depressed, but most of the reason for that is because those foreign physicians are in a freer market than in the US and have to hustle for their money.

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## fisharmor

But on the topic of how to increase access to expensive services... you know, the word "charity" has been much maligned in the recent past here, but I suspect that was engineered to make it more likely for people to accept substandard state services over charity.

I'm of the last generation of people to grow up with charities advertising - I remember the March of Dimes, the Shriners, the Ronald McDonald foundation, even the United Negro College Fund all advertising, asking for donations.
They don't anymore.

The point being, this was an already solved problem prior to the state getting involved.  All the state has done is increase prices and make it MORE likely that people actually need charity.

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## oyarde

> This whole economic part wouldn't make sense immediately. You gonna need to do a lot of reading and in time you will get it. Btw the economic message is that last message I got. Foreign policy brought me in just like you and economic message came much later.


I am totally opposite . It was always the economics for me .Gradually , with sadness I had to accept I cannot just on a whim invade and pillage other countries and I should  get a real job .

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## Iranian

> Every one of them has a smaller population than the socialist mecca of California. 
> 
> And just look at the mess Ca. is in with its ability to fleece the rest of the nation.


Yeah. Scandinavian countries are small, but Germany, many EU countries or even your neighbor Canada are not that small. What about them? 




> What about small local communities having the monies paid to the federal government in the peoples wallets?
> 
> Humanity will provide for its lesser able if humanity isn't taxed to pay federal oversight.


Not always. If that were true, there wouldn't have been so many homeless people in rich states like California or New York.




> That oil belongs to us.


Come and get it.




> This whole economic part wouldn't make sense immediately. You gonna need to do a lot of reading and in time you will get it. Btw the economic message is that last message I got. Foreign policy brought me in just like you and economic message came much later.


Yeah. I'm familiar with the general ideas behind capitalism and I understand why it performs so well as a system, but it increases the gap between the poor and the rich (which is, ironically, one of the reasons why capitalism performs so well). 




> I could tell you were a woke individual from a woke culture. Your choice of a user name does not denote a specific gender. Had I known 12yrs. ago what today's culture demands I would probably have chosen "american4ex-congressperson."


Not really. But still, the whole concept of gender in grammar is useless and unnecessary because it does not add much information to a sentence.




> Most Americans support public healthcare, as evidenced by the people they keep electing to public office. Very few politicians who oppose spending taxpayer money on healthcare can get elected to any office where they could vote on that issue, and those that do find that they need to make all sorts of compromises to assure people that they won't actually vote to decrease healthcare spending until after some other things that are never going to happen get accomplished.


Thanks! Finally someone who believes public healthcare is not a sham!

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## Superfluous Man

> Thanks! Finally someone who believes public healthcare is not a sham!


You misunderstood me. Taxpayer funded healthcare is definitely a sham. But most Americans are all for that sham. Your question wasn't about what I think, but about what Americans think.

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## oyarde

> Yeah. Scandinavian countries are small, but Germany, many EU countries or even your neighbor Canada are not that small. What about them? 
> 
> 
> 
> Not always. If that were true, there wouldn't have been so many homeless people in rich states like California or New York.
> 
> 
> 
> Come and get it.
> ...


It is not possible for Federal tax monied health care to not be a sham in America . The current known amount of fraud in medicare and medicaid is staggering .I imagine the VA is the only tax funded health system in america that has verification.

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## Iranian

> There are two different problems to discuss on both of these topics.  For both education (and that includes LOWER education as well) and healthcare, there is the topic of prices in general, and the topic of how to increase access to the goods and services that are more expensive.
> 
> On the first topic, overall prices, the general axiom that most of us here recognize (there's nothing to _believe_ in here - we're talking an axiom that is self-evident) is that, in the absence of state interference, increased market demand leads to competition, which leads to both innovation and lower prices.
> 
> When there is demand for a good or service, and new actors are free to enter the market at will, there will be a tendency to try to drive prices lower because that is the easiest way, in a totally free market, to capture customers.  Lower prices can be achieved either through a competitor simply being willing to live with less, or through that competitor innovating his way into lower prices and keeping his profit margins.
> 
> Right now, in America anyway, medicine is a bigger problem than education, because the cost of education here has been driven down to practically nothing.  Oh, it still costs a ton of money to get a _degree_, but the education is literally free.  All you need is a device that can connect to the internet and YouTube.  You can get an entire year of access to YouTube on a phone that also does other things, for less money than a one-semester junior college course costs.  So the answer to "Education is free in Iran" is that education is also free in America.  We just did it differently... and as a result, more and more parents are getting more and more comfortable with keeping their children out of public schools by choice.  Most kids can get the same amount of education in one hour that public schools take almost 7 hours to teach.
> 
> I say medicine is a bigger problem because medicine here (and also, I suspect, in Iran) is a cartel system.  It is not a free market.  We are constantly having court cases here on things that are as frivolous as SHOES, because, as the faulty reasoning goes, you can't make a claim that your shoe is better for someone's feet without acting in the capacity of a physician.  I won't say that education is free from government interference (because there's a lot of it), but medicine is much worse - and as a result, much more expensive.
> ...


I don't think an axiomatic system is a good choice for discussing humanities and I say that as someone with a background in pure mathematics. Assuming abundance of resources and in the absence of monopoly and conglomerates, your proposition that increased market leads to competition and hence, innovation and lower prices stands valid. But we don't have unlimited resources on the earth. And when there are companies that are as powerful as the government, they can impose their policies on the public and increased market may eventually lead to higher prices for lower quality products.

Actually, many people inside the US or outside the US think that one of the reasons that the US finds herself committed to certain foreign policies is exactly because of that. Because there are companies and people from certain backgrounds who possess huge wealth and power that have formed a Deep State or a Shadow Government inside the US. And no matter who gets elected, certain US policies will never change.

Education in Iran is not completely free. It is free only if you choose to study at a public university (and the top universities in Iran are public universities, unlike the US where the best universities are usually private institutions). There are also semi-governmental and private schools and universities in Iran. Actually, I strongly believe in the US education system. It's the best system in the world in my opinion. And it offers a lot of opportunities to scientists who want to dedicate their time to science only. But although it's doing incredibly well and it attracts the most talented people from all over the world, it offers not much to the ordinary American citizens.

Yes, I'm well aware of medical tourism in the US. One of my penpals from Idaho had to fly to Croatia for fixing his teeth. I think the reason that the US medical system performs so poorly is because companies involved in medicine and pharmaceutics have powerful links in the system and they're simply milking you guys. It's not because of the exchange rates. They overcharge you because they can. As simple as that.

----------


## Superfluous Man

> But we don't have unlimited resources on the earth.


Practically speaking, within the time frame of human existence, we do. We have accessible economic resources that are not bounded by some strict limit, but rather that increase by the application of human labor, and that increase more and more via ingenuity, and this happens most effectively in free markets. The world economy isn't a zero-sum game where one person getting more means there's less left over for someone else.

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## timosman

> Practically speaking, within the time frame of human existence, we do. We have accessible economic resources that are not bounded by some strict limit, but rather that increase by the application of human labor, and that increase more and more via ingenuity, and this happens most effectively in free markets. The world economy isn't a zero-sum game where one person getting more means there's less left over for someone else.


The only unlimited resource we have is human stupidity.

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## Iranian

> Practically speaking, within the time frame of human existence, we do. We have accessible economic resources that are not bounded by some strict limit, but rather that increase by the application of human labor, and that increase more and more via ingenuity, and this happens most effectively in free markets. The world economy isn't a zero-sum game where one person getting more means there's less left over for someone else.


Not really. Even within the time frame of a particular generation, we don't. That's one of the reasons that inflation exists and it's one of the main motivations for endless wars since the beginning of mankind.

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## tod evans

> Yeah. Scandinavian countries are small, but Germany, many EU countries or even your neighbor Canada are not that small. What about them?


Start here;

----------


## fisharmor

> I think the reason that the US medical system performs so poorly is because companies involved in medicine and pharmaceutics have powerful links in the system and they're simply milking you guys.


Oh, absolutely.  That's the cartel I was mentioning earlier.
The pharmaceutical companies can do it because the only way to produce drugs here is with the blessing of the state.
The physicians do it because the only way to practice medicine (all the way down to making shoes), is with the blessing of the state.

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## pcosmar

> . I think the reason that the US medical system performs so poorly is because companies involved in medicine and pharmaceutics have powerful links in the system and they're simply milking you guys. It's not because of the exchange rates. They overcharge you because they can. As simple as that.


Other side of the world,, but on the same page.

It is as simple as that.

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## pcosmar

> Not really. Even within the time frame of a particular generation, we don't. That's one of the reasons that inflation exists and it's one of the main motivations for endless wars since the beginning of mankind.


I believe there is another reason,, but that gets into Faith..

There is Evil in this world..  it has no national boundaries.

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## r3volution 3.0

> Hi everyone,
> I just registered here. I live in Iran and I'm not well-informed about American internal affairs, but I have read some of Ron Paul's interviews and I have to say that I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas regarding the US-Iran relations. Even though I can't support anyone, but I follow some politicians like Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. I checked some of the threads on here and I thought maybe joining you guys would be a good idea.
> 
> So, is it OK for me to join here? Or is it an American-exclusive website?


Ron Paul Forums isn't reserved for Americans, but you will find that several of our regular members are hostile to you because you're not an American, and especially because you're an Iranian (our current idiot President is told to say on television that Iranians are bad...). In any event, I can appreciate that you like Ron Paul's statements on foreign policy, especially vis a vis Iran, but the essence of libertarianism (the political ideology which Ron Paul espouses) is laissez faire: the unfettered free market. Libertarianism is primarily a school of economic thought, intended to guide domestic policy. Libertarians also tend to be anti-war (which in the US means being against invading other countries, since that is what our government tends to do). Assuming you aren't familiar with this kind of economic thought, I suggest you read the following:

https://fee.org/media/14946/economicsinonelesson.pdf

Cheers

P.S. 




> Thanks. I'm aware that English is trying to use  gender neutral pronouns. I always use "they" when I want to refer to a  person without referring to their gender but I didn't know that calling  the US "she" would offend people.


Civilized Anglophones disregard recent, goofy attempts to butcher the language.

For example, I was recently reading something relating to classical Greece. 

The author actually _corrected Aristotle_ (!) with [brackets] to insert a feminine pronoun.

Such a person should be taken out into a field and shot in _his_ head. 

...just kidding, of course, but he shouldn't be published by anyone, ever, under any circumstances.

...because he is a barbarian.

----------


## Republicanguy

> I am Nigerian, so I guess its OK to be a foreigner. Plus we have had quite a few indians on the forum. Not red indians but red dot indians


A nigerian or Nigerian immigrant? You believe liberty will work in Nigeria?

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## Chester Copperpot

> I am Nigerian, so I guess its OK to be a foreigner. Plus we have had quite a few indians on the forum. Not red indians but red dot indians


youre Nigerian?

----------


## Superfluous Man

> Plus we have had quite a few indians on the forum. Not red indians but red dot indians


Are any of them regular posters (not counting any of the reincarnations of Fire11)? I did not know. But I'm glad to hear it.

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## Stratovarious

> The only unlimited resource we have is human stupidity.


And the Federal Reserve....

----------


## Sammy

> I am Nigerian, so I guess its OK to be a foreigner. Plus we have had quite a few indians on the forum. Not red indians but red dot indians


Nigerian American? Or just Nigerian?

----------


## Sammy

> Are Americans against public healthcare? Why? I think that's something we should discuss in another thread.


I oppose almost everything the Government does. The Government should only protect our rights & they should protect our border.
Healthcare would be much better if the Government would get out. It should be cheap but not free!

----------


## juleswin

> Nigerian American? Or just Nigerian?





> youre Nigerian?


I am Nigerian and an American citizen. See, when I got my US citizenship, they did not object to me still holding unto my Nigerian citizenship(I asked). So now, I still maintain a Nigerian passport so I won't need a visa when I am trying to visit my parents and a US passport so I can travel to Europe without a visa. See, most people think its about welfare but its really about freedom of movement 




> A Nigerian or Nigerian immigrant? You believe liberty will work in Nigeria?


Its possible but wouldn't put my money on it happening any time soon. You got to crawl first before you can walk.

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## dannno

@Iranian


> There are paid shills here posing as fervent patriots.  They _will_ give you a hard time in an effort to shut you up, and the moderator will _not_ make them behave and obey forum guidelines.  I apologize in advance for them.





> Ron Paul Forums isn't reserved for Americans, but you will find that several of our regular members are hostile to you because you're not an American, and especially because you're an Iranian (our current idiot President is told to say on television that Iranians are bad...).



These two posters consistently post intellectually dishonest information.

I don't think there is a single poster here who has any problem with Iranians. 

Donald Trump loves Iranians. He just isn't a huge fan of the regime. 

Many of us here understand that you cannot have unlimited immigration and a huge welfare state. The two posters above do not understand that concept.

Additionally, as you can see we are very anti-socialist here. 

If you have a free market system, then the people who migrate to your country will tend to favor free market systems. 

Since we have a socialist system combined with a wealth generating capitalist system, a lot of migrants come for the socialism. It turns out that the migrants who come here vote for Democrats at nearly double the rate of natives. 

Some of us here would support an open immigration system, or something close to that, if we didn't have a huge welfare state. But we refuse to under these current conditions, because relatively open/illegal immigration is leading us to a less free society.

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## Republicanguy

Right and the republican party has been welcoming to all, including native people in the US?

The republican party represents the white christian order of America, who don't like the idea of a Hispanic America, that was one of the reasons why he was elected, there is truth to that. Now everywhere tends to like their own culture and even race, religion.

That is the unfortunate truth at times.

I suspect if Asia or Africa experienced what happens in more western countries, there would be the similar mindset. But when one is desperate to get somewhere, obviously they face problems, due to criminals, who may also be from where ever the migrants are from.

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## tod evans

> Right and the republican party has been welcoming to all, including native people in the US?
> 
> The republican party represents the white christian order of America, who don't like the idea of a Hispanic America, that was one of the reasons why he was elected, there is truth to that. Now everywhere tends to like their own culture and even race, religion.
> 
> That is the unfortunate truth at times.
> 
> I suspect if Asia or Africa experienced what happens in more western countries, there would be the similar mindset. But when one is desperate to get somewhere, obviously they face problems, due to criminals, who may also be from where ever the migrants are from.


What government agency provides you with a 'puter and connection?

I'm pretty sure it's not one that has actually hired you so that pretty much leaves the taxpaying Limeys footing the bill for you to post as one of their countrymen while living on the dole.

You know if you put as much effort into learning to drive as you do posting you could probably get a job delivering pizza or hauling trash....

----------


## Sammy

> Right and the republican party has been welcoming to all, including native people in the US?
> 
> The republican party represents the white christian order of America, who don't like the idea of a Hispanic America, that was one of the reasons why he was elected, there is truth to that. Now everywhere tends to like their own culture and even race, religion.
> 
> That is the unfortunate truth at times.
> 
> I suspect if Asia or Africa experienced what happens in more western countries, there would be the similar mindset. But when one is desperate to get somewhere, obviously they face problems, due to criminals, who may also be from where ever the migrants are from.


You have serious problems my Friend.It's time for you to visit a mental doctor!

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty



----------


## Republicanguy

> You have serious problems my Friend.It's time for you to visit a mental doctor!


It is true. The US is a predominately white country, most black people would agree that the Republican party is pretty much a party that surrounds itself with the white family image. There is no denying this. 

I am not stating there aren't minorities who support the republican party, but many tend to avoid the right wing side of politics considering the identity it is usually grouped with.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> I am not stating there aren't minorities who support the republican party, but many tend to avoid the right wing side of politics considering the identity it is usually grouped with.



Wouldn't that make those minorities prejudiced?

----------


## Republicanguy

That is the problem, it is on here too. There are many views that are. There are dominate views on the right to an abortion. It just control by other means, discrimination by another way.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> That is the problem, it is on here too. There are many views that are. There are dominate views on the right to an abortion. It just control by other means, discrimination by another way.



Let me run that thru my de-scrambler.  In the meantime, I think it really late in UK.

----------


## Stratovarious

> It is true. The US is a predominately white country, most black people would agree that the Republican party is pretty much a party that surrounds itself with the white family image. There is no denying this. 
> 
> I am not stating there aren't minorities who support the republican party, but many tend to avoid the right wing side of politics considering the identity it is usually grouped with.


So... let me get this right, if what you're saying is true;

Since the US is predominantly a White Country the R party should surround itself p_redominantly w_ith Blacks...
Would that not be a tad racist ?

----------


## r3volution 3.0

> Donald Trump loves Iranians.


He loves them so much he restricts trade with them and brags about how much economic damage he's doing..

----------


## CCTelander

> He loves them so much he restricts trade with them and brags about how much economic damage he's doing..



It's "Tough Love."

----------


## Republicanguy

> So... let me get this right, if what you're saying is true;
> 
> Since the US is predominantly a White Country the R party should surround itself p_redominantly w_ith Blacks...
> Would that not be a tad racist ?


So that as a minority, many white folk don't want to really know them.

----------


## NorthCarolinaLiberty

> So that as a minority, many white folk don't want to really know them.



Couldn't you say the same about black people wanting to know white people?

----------


## Republicanguy

Sure, but remember history in the US, stop with the coy mentality.

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Sure, but remember history in the US, stop with the coy mentality.


You don't know anything, stop pretending you do.
Everything you have been taught is a lie.

----------


## misterx

Serious question, is Republicanguy always drunk when he posts?

----------


## oyarde

> Serious question, is Republicanguy always drunk when he posts?


I don't think he drinks since there is no govt ration for it .

----------


## Anti Globalist

I don't care if people from other countries visit this forum.  What I do care about is whether or not they support the ideas of liberty.

----------


## osan

> Hi everyone,
> I just registered here. I live in Iran and I'm not well-informed about American internal affairs, but I have read some of Ron Paul's interviews and I have to say that I find myself agreeing with many of his ideas regarding the US-Iran relations. Even though I can't support anyone, but I follow some politicians like Tulsi Gabbard, Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. I checked some of the threads on here and I thought maybe joining you guys would be a good idea.
> 
> So, is it OK for me to join here? Or is it an American-exclusive website?


I can speak for nobody but myself in welcoming any and all lovers of freedom.  The world needs more comity between such people because the haters of liberty are glued to each other, usually in obscene ways, such that dynamite won't separate them.  Power rests largely in numbers and organization.

----------

