# Liberty Movement > Grassroots Central >  Missouri Police Report: RP supporters, Libertarians, anti-NWO movement are TERRORISTS

## emazur

http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/
http://digg.com/world_news/Secret_St...are_Terrorists

This will piss you off.  I just finished reading the article, and am about to read the scans of the report (I just printed them out)

----------


## Live_Free_Or_Die

Is this confirmed?

----------


## He Who Pawns

If legit, WOW....



The only thing is, this memo is full of very obvious typos and grammatical errors.  It's possible that they slipped past editors, but also makes me wonder about the authenticity.

----------


## MelissaCato

Is this confirmed ? If so, they might as well be full throttle azzhats and just put the US Constitution on their bloody flyers. Who elected these people ? 
 I refuse to believe all the Police are in on this BS. What is our Military saying about this, they donated alot of moneys to Ron Paul too.  LMAO

----------


## emazur

I don't know but it seems authentic, and there is precedent - I remember an FBI report that included 'defenders of the constitution' as threats.  I just finished reading the report and its main targets are militia movements, so at first it seemed maybe the infowars article was over the top, but no - it is grouping people with the following characteristics as possible threats:

- supporters of third parties (specifically mentioned RP, Barr, and Baldwin)
- anti NWO
- anti Federal Reserve (the End the Fed protests specifically were mentioned)
- anticipation of US economic collapse
- uneasiness over possible Constitutional Conention
- anti North American Union
- opposed to Obama's civilian military core
- anti RFID
- believe in state sovereignty
- anti IRS ~ income tax
- anti illegal immigration
- uneasiness over possible marshal law
- display Gadsden Flag or Upside down US Flag
- watchers of Zeitgeist, America: Freedom to Fascism

Every one of those characteristics applies to me (except the flags but people on my digg network display them), and I'll bet at _least_ 50% of the above applies to almost everyone here.  This is how they are identifying possible threats.

----------


## ItsTime

the cop or cops need to step forward before I believe this one.

----------


## He Who Pawns

> the cop or cops need to step forward before I believe this one.


Well the person who wrote it left his name, email and phone number at the end of the memo:

----------


## specsaregood

> I don't know but it seems authentic, and there is precedent -


It doesnt look authentic to me and the precedent comes from the same source IIRC.




> Every one of those characteristics applies to me (except the flags but people on my digg network display them), and I'll bet at _least_ 50% of the above applies to almost everyone here.  This is how they are identifying possible threats.


And that Is why it doesn't seem authentic to me.  It looks and reads more like something whipped up to implicate their own groups/demographic to incite themselves.  Or maybe I just hope that is the case.

----------


## Original_Intent

Gee, they left a toll free number, too?

I'd call them but I am afraid I would get the midnight "knock on the door".

I gotta hope that a lot of policemen know better, like the one that allegedely got this to AJ.

----------


## He Who Pawns

I called the toll free number (866-362-6422) and it's legit.  The woman who answered said she was aware that  a memo was put out implicating Ron Paul and Bob Barr supporters, but that she was working the late shift and would have to take my number and have her supervisor call me tomorrow.  I told her no thanks.  But she was clearly aware of a growing controversy.  She sounded frazzled.

----------


## Original_Intent

> It doesnt look authentic to me and the precedent comes from the same source IIRC.
> 
> 
> 
> And that Is why it doesn't seem authentic to me.  It looks and reads more like something whipped up to implicate their own groups/demographic to incite themselves.  Or maybe I just hope that is the case.


No the precedent one from the FBI has been circulated by the JBS for years. That one at least is legit, and frankly not all that terribly different than this one (besides the specific naming of Ron Paul and others) So some of the specifics are more specific, but I would bet this is legit too.

Call the toll free number and ask them.

----------


## He Who Pawns

You guys should call it for sure and see if you get the same reaction I got.  Ask what that "information center" does.

----------


## RSLudlum

Well, I guess I'm a terrorist by default because Christopher Gadsden is one of my grandfathers and I proudly fly the flag in my backyard.

----------


## Alawn

This is out of control!  These people need to be fired.

----------


## ItsTime

> I called the toll free number (866-362-6422) and it's legit.  The woman who answered said she was aware that  a memo was put out implicating Ron Paul and Bob Barr supporters, but that she was working the late shift and would have to take my number and have her supervisor call me tomorrow.  I told her no thanks.  But she was clearly aware of a growing controversy.  She sounded frazzled.


Unless Alex covered all his bases...

----------


## jake

I cannot believe this to be real, it's just "too much", as it were. I don't know. anyone else called the phone #?

----------


## ItsTime

well it looks like the number is real... anyone else call... i wont

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...earch&aq=f&oq=

----------


## jake

interesting. the same footer for the "Missouri Information Analysis Center" came up in a PDF in the very first search result for that toll free phone #

http://www.dps.mo.gov/homelandsecuri...203-2007-1.pdf

----------


## MelissaCato

OK, someone send this to Glenn Beck and Judge Napolitano ASAP. Darn it.

----------


## He Who Pawns

Let's first confirm it.

----------


## Danke

They have done their research, very up to date.  Of course the pamphlet kinda lumps all the group together by association.

----------


## Danke

Linda answered...

----------


## Jordan

So about that... I'm buying a gun first thing tomorrow.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

If this is true than I hope it creates one hell of a $#@!storm!

----------


## trey4sports

sent to Glenn Beck

----------


## He Who Pawns

> Linda answered...


And what did she say?

----------


## RonPaulR3VOLUTION

Time for legal action, if this is confirmed?

----------


## homah

Anyone planning to email "comments regarding this alert" to Brandon.middleton@mshp.dps.mo.gov?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Holy S%#&!!!!

Thank god I am not in MO, but what could LE in all other states be saying and doing??? This seriously is over the top and repercussions will be sought im sure.

----------


## slacker921

looks like a hoax..   somebody needs to fire up photoshop and whip up one of these that shows Palin supporters as terrorists..

----------


## Alawn

> looks like a hoax..   somebody needs to fire up photoshop and whip up one of these that shows Palin supporters as terrorists..


Based on what?  It looks real to me.  People have called the number on it and they confirmed it.

I've seen this sort of stuff before.  This isn't the first time police training documents have said mentioning the constitution makes you a terrorist. Have you seen the video of police freaking out when they found a pocket constitution on someone?

----------


## Dripping Rain

> looks like a hoax..   somebody needs to fire up photoshop and whip up one of these that shows Palin supporters as terrorists..


are you an idiot?
read the comments before you act intelligent 
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpos...8&postcount=10

----------


## Maverick

Can somebody explain why the pictures don't align properly within the document on the scans?

----------


## Jeremy

> Can somebody explain why the pictures don't align properly within the document on the scans?


this little memo is a mess and has a horrible design / layout

but thats exactly what you should expect from a government lol

----------


## Jeremy

Wait a second... isn't the next national CFL meeting in MO?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Wait a second... isn't the next national CFL meeting in MO?


Oh crap. Ooooooo crap

----------


## Maverick

> but thats exactly what you should expect from a government lol


Somehow I knew I'd get a response like this around here.

"It's not a hoax. The gov just sucks so bad at everything it can't even get a memo put together coherently."

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Somehow I knew I'd get a response like this around here.
> 
> "It's not a hoax. The gov just sucks so bad at everything it can't even get a memo put together coherently."


The fact that at least 3 people from this forum have called the 800# and VERIFIED it makes me think its not joke or hoax

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Wait a second... isn't the next national CFL meeting in MO?


thats the first thing I thought
I may think this may have been done on purpose to scare away Ron Paul supporters in MO

*but the report doesnt exactly call RP supporters terrorists*

it just says that militia are more likely to be associated with him and Chuck and Barr

didnt even call militia terrorists. But it kinda insinnuates they are terrorists. kind of tricky

this is like something from the Obama forum. only problem is its real. people who still think its a hoax should call the 1-800 number and confirmed it

----------


## Danke

> And what did she say?


"Hello, Information Center this is Linda...Hello...HELLO"...click

----------


## Maverick

> *but the report doesnt exactly call RP supporters terrorists*
> 
> it just says that militia are more likely to be associated with him and Chuck and Barr
> 
> didnt even call militia terrorists. But it kinda insinnuates they are terrorists. kind of tricky


That's true. AJ's title on the article is quite misleading.

However, it does use the words "extremists" and "fanatics" quite a bit though.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> That's true. AJ's title on the article is quite misleading.
> 
> However, it does use the words "extremists" and "fanatics" quite a bit though.


true
I wonder if the officer who made it was an Obama supporter or maybe a rabid keynesian with agenda. anyone who did this clearly had an agenda and especially an anti Ron Paul agenda
I hope this hits the news & the police department makes an apology. I hope Ron Paul's office confirms this and does something about it instead of ignoring it. Ignoring this kind of stuff is gambling with your life

----------


## Danke

Just confirms,we are not alone.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae74oMMQ4ak

----------


## smileylovesfreedom

oh man...i hope i don't get put on another gov't list...

----------


## brandon

I only read the first post, but if you're going to post some hard to believe, fantasy like story, please use a better source than a guy who can't even tell theobamaforum.com is a spoof site.

----------


## MelissaCato

I think FEMA is involved with this BS ... remember this video FEMA teaching a class about the founding fathers ? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XC1fk_EO3c

----------


## LittleLightShining

Is it possible that this is a well-crafted response to theobamaforum? I understand people have called, they've spoken to Linda, the links make it appear to be valid but could this be a hoax done by savvy Obama supporters? Please don't call me a moron or accuse me of having my head in the sand.

----------


## Roxi

not being a naysayer... but yes the number is the legitimate number for what this document and article says it is for... but that doesn't mean the rest isn't made up.

I am not saying its not real at all, just saying the number being legit doesn't make it so.

I really do hope its not real, as I am from MO

----------


## Truth Warrior

*That's just one more good reason to avoid and to not join "movements".<IMHO>*

----------


## acptulsa

The points of emphasis we need to make in decrying this crap are, one, every member of the armed forces, every member of Congress and the president all take an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and by this rationale they are terrorists too, and two, singling out the supporters of particular candidates for 'special scrutiny' is not the way to keep either a democracy or a republic healthy.

I, for one, will keep the language that mild when discussing it.  If we can flood the state of Missouri with curious enquiries from people who obviously don't consider themselves directly affected, the state will realize they've stirred up a lot of curiosity and they _might_ have the good sense to be embarassed.

In any case, and in my opinion. our best bet isn't to petition the state of Missouri for redress of grievances but to try it in the court of public opinion.

----------


## DAFTEK

John Gibson was on the radio yesterday and calling RP supporters all truthers and need to apologies to the nation and had Alex Jones on the radio. That Gibson dude is the biggest racist piece of $#@! i have heard in a long time. I am hearing more and more anti Ron Paul crap lately all over the news and anyone who supports him.

So here is my question.

1. Are they now scared of RP and the Campaign for Liberty?
2. Is this the way they will turn new potential supporters against the movement?
3. Scare supporters and might actually leave the movement?
4. Just more big government tactics like "War mongering" "Economy mongering" and now the latest "RP mongering"

----------


## acptulsa

> *That's just one more good reason to avoid and to not join "movements".<IMHO>*


The thing is, if you don't go for a 'movement' every now and again, you wind up full of $#!+.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> The thing is, if you don't go for a 'movement' every now and again, you wind up full of $#!+.


 *That's what fiber and prune juice, etc. are for.  "Movements" tend to become very easy targets for tribal collectivist liquidation.*

----------


## LittleLightShining

> The points of emphasis we need to make in decrying this crap are, one, every member of the armed forces, every member of Congress and the president all take an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and by this rationale they are terrorists too, and two, singling out the supporters of particular candidates for 'special scrutiny' is not the way to keep either a democracy or a republic healthy.
> 
> I, for one, will keep the language that mild when discussing it.  If we can flood the state of Missouri with curious enquiries from people who obviously don't consider themselves directly affected, the state will realize they've stirred up a lot of curiosity and they _might_ have the good sense to be embarassed.
> 
> In any case, and in my opinion. our best bet isn't to petition the state of Missouri for redress of grievances but to try it in the court of public opinion.


acp, always the voice of reason. Thanks.

----------


## MelissaCato

Hummmm, I don't think Missouri is the only State we should be concerned about, if true.
This is National people, actually it could be Global, because we have alot of MeetUps in other countries..
Either way, someone needs to seriously confirm this ... then get it on Freedom Watch or Beck. 
I wanna know what Ron Paul, Beck, Brian and the Judge think, personally.

----------


## acptulsa

> acp, always the voice of reason. Thanks.


You're very kind.

We need to hoist Missouri on its own petard and make other states think twice about going here.  We need to digg this up before they can crank up their spin control machine, too.  They're terrified of us?  Let's give them reason, while at the same time reassuring the public of our sanity.

Shall we use that old partisanship to our advantage one time, before we try to eliminate it?  They intimate that Ron Paul was a third party candidate, but that isn't true.  How about, "The Republicans used fear tactics and misused the terrorist label to get us into an unnecessary war halfway around the world.  Now the Democrats seem to want to use fear tactics and misuse the terrorist label to get us into an unnecessary _civil_ war right here at _home_."

----------


## slacker921

> The fact that at least 3 people from this forum have called the 800# and VERIFIED it makes me think its not joke or hoax


So far all I've seen is:
 - Yes, the number is indeed valid.  No surprise there.
 - Somebody answered the phone.  No surprise there.
 - The person who answered the phone was aware of this memo circulating.  No surprise there.

What I have NOT seen is:
 - The organization confirms that this document came from them (so far all we have is "The woman who answered said she was aware that a memo was put out implicating Ron Paul and Bob Barr supporters"  .. but who put it out?).
 - The organization stands behind the document 
or
 - The organization has apologized.

*Until they confirm that it came from them and either apologize or stand behind it then it's premature to get worked up about it*.

I still lean towards the hoax side on this one.. I might be wrong, but it would take me maybe an hour at the most to gather up the images and create a PDF exactly like this.  It's not rocket science.  An hour to create something that would cause mayhem amongst the Paul supporters?...   I know of at least two groups online that would do this just to watch the Paul supporters get upset.

----------


## acptulsa

> I still lean towards the hoax side on this one.. I might be wrong, but it would take me maybe an hour at the most to gather up the images and create a PDF exactly like this.  It's not rocket science.  An hour to create something that would cause mayhem amongst the Paul supporters?...   I know of at least two groups online that would do this just to watch the Paul supporters get upset.


Takes more than an hour or two and a computer to get a working toll-free number.  Is there some way to confirm who pays the phone bill on that?  If that check comes from Jefferson City and we can prove it, we're primed to roll.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Takes more than an hour or two and a computer to get a working toll-free number.  Is there some way to confirm who pays the phone bill on that?  If that check comes from Jefferson City and we can prove it, we're primed to roll.


All calls concerning this document are now being referred to Captain Tim Hull in the MIAC Public Information Department. Telephone # is 573-526-6115. Can our super sleuths research this number as well?

----------


## acptulsa

http://www.savemolives.com/programs/videos.htm

LLS, did you get the name of the person who referred inquiries to that number?

----------


## LittleLightShining

> http://www.savemolives.com/programs/videos.htm
> 
> LLS, did you get the name of the person who referred inquiries to that number?


I asked her what her name was and she did not want to tell me. She said all inquiries on the document should be made to Hull. After asking her about 3 or 4 times she said her name was Erin but would not give her last name.

----------


## qwerty

> http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/
> http://digg.com/world_news/Secret_St...are_Terrorists
> 
> This will piss you off.  I just finished reading the article, and am about to read the scans of the report (I just printed them out)


We should inform C4L about this!

----------


## acptulsa

> We should inform C4L about this!


Excellent.  They actually have a chance to pull of a suit for libel.

I dislike the headline on the digg, but, well, I suggest we digg up anyway.

Where else can we get this posted or covered?  Can we get the Republican Party chair from some Missouri county or another to comment on it?

Publicity bomb!

----------


## Original_Intent

This is really not that hard to believe. I don't know why people are calling it a hoax. If you read the FBI pamphlet that has been circulating for years asking that any "defenders" of the Constitution, super "patriots", etc be reported to the FBI as right wing extremists (they also include a list of left wing extremists groups) it has a lot of similarities to this document.

Even if this document turns out to be fake, which I think is highly doubtful, if you don't believe that similar documents exist, you're asleep. <IMO>

----------


## Truth Warrior

*Hell, send it to Ron himself.*

----------


## acptulsa

> This is really not that hard to believe. I don't know why people are calling it a hoax. If you read the FBI pamphlet that has been circulating for years asking that any "defenders" of the Constitution, super "patriots", etc be reported to the FBI as right wing extremists (they also include a list of left wing extremists groups) it has a lot of similarities to this document.
> 
> Even if this document turns out to be fake, which I think is highly doubtful, if you don't believe that similar documents exist, you're asleep. <IMO>


No one said it's a hoax or unbelievable that I saw.  We just want to make good and sure we're not making asses of ourselves when we stick this out in the public eye and shine a nice, bright spotlight on it.

----------


## MelissaCato

> Excellent.  They actually have a chance to pull of a suit for libel.
> 
> I dislike the headline on the digg, but, well, I suggest we digg up anyway.
> 
> Where else can we get this posted or covered?  Can we get the Republican Party chair from some Missouri county or another to comment on it?
> 
> Publicity bomb!


I emailed Brian and the Judge with this link and my concerns.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> No one said it's a hoax or unbelievable that I saw.  We just want to make good and sure we're not making asses of ourselves when we stick this out in the public eye and shine a nice, bright spotlight on it.


Well, I sort of did. In that I asked if it could be. Not because I don't believe it but because I do.

I just tried to call C4L and had to leave a message.

----------


## MelissaCato

Isn't this the MIAC Website refered to in the flyer ?  http://www.miacx.org/

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Isn't this the MIAC Website refered to in the flyer ?  http://www.miacx.org/


That's one creepy site.

----------


## slacker921

> Takes more than an hour or two and a computer to get a working toll-free number.  Is there some way to confirm who pays the phone bill on that?  If that check comes from Jefferson City and we can prove it, we're primed to roll.


Why bother?  Point the document to an existing number and organization.. flood them with calls.  Even more reason for them to hate us.  
They'll say "yes we know about it" until someone can confirm that it was sent out by them and is an official document.  Legally that's what they should do..

I am aware of the other documents that are out there from police departments, etc saying people with anti-fed books and pro-constitution groups are "suspect"...   this one just looks too over the top though.  ....  but if it is legit...   wow...  C4L should be talking to their attorney pronto.

----------


## acptulsa

I just called out the local meetup.  Being right next door, we might just have a bigger effect than some, but I would suggest _everyone_ do the same.  Especially you, Roxi--still a member of the S.W. Mo meetup?  Or did you drop it when you moved?

----------


## acptulsa

> Why bother?  Point the document to an existing number and organization.. flood them with calls.  Even more reason for them to hate us.


If we try them in the court of public opinion and win, how much will they hate us?  We'll have given them good reason to be terrified of us and will have reassured the public at the same time.

They called the supporters of a Republican candidate possible terrorists.  You didn't think we could ever get neocons sticking up for us, but if we play our cards right we surely can.  As with the economy, every adversity is an opportunity.

And we seem to have confirmed the authenticity.  They'll be hard pressed to deny.

----------


## Original_Intent

> No one said it's a hoax or unbelievable that I saw.  We just want to make good and sure we're not making asses of ourselves when we stick this out in the public eye and shine a nice, bright spotlight on it.





> the cop or cops need to step forward before I believe this one.





> It doesnt look authentic to me and the precedent comes from the same source IIRC.
> 
> 
> 
> And that Is why it doesn't seem authentic to me.  It looks and reads more like something whipped up to implicate their own groups/demographic to incite themselves.  Or maybe I just hope that is the case.





> I cannot believe this to be real, it's just "too much", as it were. I don't know. anyone else called the phone #?





> looks like a hoax..   somebody needs to fire up photoshop and whip up one of these that shows Palin supporters as terrorists..


just saying....there are some doubting Thomases, I agree that we need to cover our bases before we do anything drastic. Wait that was a really poor choice of words for a suspected terrorist...

----------


## Sandra

The whole thing looks amateurish and horribly written. And you can get a 1-800 number for anything. I have a 1-800 number for my small home based business. I don't get why having a contact phone number in any way verifies this.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> The whole thing looks amateurish and horribly written. And you can get a 1-800 number for anything. I have a 1-800 number for my small home based business. I don't get why having a contact phone number in any way verifies this.


Sandra, I called the number and was referred to Captain Tim Hull. His validity has been verified.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> *That's what fiber and prune juice, etc. are for.  "Movements" tend to become very easy targets for tribal collectivist liquidation.*


lol.

You're a member of the anarchist "movement".  Last time I knew, anarchists were not exactly in favor with the powers that be.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Isn't this the MIAC Website refered to in the flyer ?  http://www.miacx.org/


Yes, the Missouri Information Analysis Center.  

*Federal, State & Local Public/Private Partnership*
_Improving community safety, reducing crime & threats through improved communications within Missouri & neighboring states.
_
"Where we put a friendly face on fascism."

/sarcasm

----------


## acptulsa

I just called the number listed for Capt. Hull on that official website and had the authenticity and text of that memo confirmed.  I spoke to Lt. John Hotz.

This was _not_ the toll-free number.  I dialed (573) 526-6115.  He confirmed that his department did issue such a memo on 2/20 and quoted me the part of the memo that mentions Ron Paul.  It matched what we see.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I just called the number listed for Capt. Hull on that official website and had the authenticity and text of that memo confirmed.  I spoke to Lt. John Hotz.
> 
> This was _not_ the toll-free number.  I dialed (573) 526-6115.


So, it's true?

----------


## slacker921

> Sandra, I called the number and was referred to Captain Tim Hull. His validity has been verified.


Has Tim Hull admitted that the document CAME FROM THEM?

Again, it would take about an hour to create a document like that and point it to their 1-800 number.  It would take them much longer to gather everyone together and verify that the document either came from them (and they stand behind it) or that it came from someone else.

Be patient people..  if it's confirmed that it came from them THEN it will be time to flood them with calls and e-mails.  Not before.

----------


## acptulsa

> So, it's true?


I don't know how to come up with a more firm confirmation than that.  The lieutenant was kind enough to spell his name for me.

----------


## LittleLightShining

IT'S REAL. I just talked to Hull.

----------


## torchbearer

Doubting Thomas, please exit stage left.
Memos sent to committee of safety.

Do you have an ally in your state legislature?

----------


## acptulsa

This is an official Republican candidate for president, and his supporters have been labeled as, basically, likely terrorists.  Anyone who isn't chilled by this is an idiot.  We have _got_ to shout this from the rooftops.

Where can we get this aired?  Anyone know of a conservative call-in show doing 'any topic' today?  Have a good website candidate?

To hell with harassing the state.  We need to hold it up to public ridicule.

----------


## MelissaCato

> I just called the number listed for Capt. Hull on that official website and had the authenticity and text of that memo confirmed.  I spoke to Lt. John Hotz.
> 
> This was _not_ the toll-free number.  I dialed (573) 526-6115.  He confirmed that his department did issue such a memo on 2/20 and quoted me the part of the memo that mentions Ron Paul.  It matched what we see.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> lol.
> 
> You're a member of the anarchist "movement". Last time I knew, anarchists were not exactly in favor with the powers that be.


*My post was not addressed to, NOR a reply to you.*

----------


## A. Havnes

Does Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, or Bob Barr know about this?  We've got to inform all three of them and Campaign for Liberty.

----------


## acptulsa

> Has Tim Hull admitted that the document CAME FROM THEM?


Both Capt. Hull and Lt. John Hotz.  Hotz and Hull.  Unless that official-looking website is a fake, I don't know what more confirmation we can get without driving to Jefferson City and pointing a camera at these guys.

http://www.savemolives.com/programs/videos.htm

----------


## MelissaCato

> This is an official Republican candidate for president, and his supporters have been labeled as, basically, likely terrorists.  Anyone who isn't chilled by this is an idiot.  We have _got_ to shout this from the rooftops.
> 
> Where can we get this aired?  Anyone know of a conservative call-in show doing 'any topic' today?  Have a good website candidate?
> 
> To hell with harassing the state.  We need to hold it up to public ridicule.


Brian and the Judge is on right now.

Call in 1-866-408-7669 or 
Email the show: brianandthejudge@foxnews.com

I emailed them.

----------


## LibertyEagle

I'm completely satisfied that it's true.  I'm just in shock that they did that.

----------


## Bruno

officially freaked out now

----------


## Johnnybags

if you disagree with the "STATE". Heck, they databased us all with any campaign contributions already. Liberty has been replaced by the benevolence of the "STATE". I sure hope you are not shocked by this, its been going on forever. The only consolation is the list is going to grow to a majority status soon enough. RON PAUL Terrorists. lol. That is the world we live and are not armed militias a good thing? The founding fathers thought so.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Brian and the Judge is on right now.
> 
> Call in 1-866-408-7669 or 
> Email the show: brianandthejudge@foxnews.com
> 
> I emailed them.


Good idea.

----------


## LittleLightShining

Hull said the information is correct and was put out to educate law enforcement officers about potential threats from violent militia groups. It is a strategic alert to address trends and officer safety issues. He said that there have been incidents in the past where militia groups target law enforcement officers (in one case killing an officer) and that they need to be aware of all potential threats.

I asked him if this wasn't profiling by singling out people that might have Ron Paul bumperstickers on their car and he said (again and again) that it was not profiling. I asked him if an officer, after seeing this pamphlet would be more suspicious of a driver who was pulled over for a traffic violation if there was a sticker on the car. He said no. COME ON!I asked him again then what the point would be and he reiterated the education refrain above.

----------


## acptulsa

I just sent Brian and the Judge the names of Hotz and Hull, and that phone number.  Thanks for the link!!

P.S.  Also told them I spoke to Hotz and described the conversation, and sent them a link to the post above.  LLS, you might email them (if you're willing) and make yourself available for questions (if they have any).

----------


## slacker921

WOW...  I *really* hoped they had not sunk to this.  Sigh...    ok, it's time to try to get people like the Judge to draw attention to this.

It'll be interesting to see what Glenn Beck does with this - since he called Ron Paul supporters "terrorists" during the primaries.

----------


## acptulsa

Where else can we hope to get this some exposure?  We need to try to get it out anywhere and everywhere--preferably before they get some coffee in them and crank up the spin machine.

----------


## Bruno

> Where else can we hope to get this some exposure?  We need to try to get it out anywhere and everywhere--preferably before they get some coffee in them and crank up the spin machine.


Drudge?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Hull said the information is correct and was put out to educate law enforcement officers about potential threats from violent militia groups. It is a strategic alert to address trends and officer safety issues. He said that there have been incidents in the past where militia groups target law enforcement officers (in one case killing an officer) and that they need to be aware of all potential threats.
> 
> I asked him if this wasn't profiling by singling out people that might have Ron Paul bumperstickers on their car and he said (again and again) that it was not profiling. I asked him if an officer, after seeing this pamphlet would be more suspicious of a driver who was pulled over for a traffic violation if there was a sticker on the car. He said no. COME ON!I asked him again then what the point would be and he reiterated the education refrain above.


Of course you're right.  If it wasn't for the purpose of profiling, why on earth would they mention Ron Paul's name?  I mean, what's the purpose of them mentioning that otherwise.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Drudge?


I think it needs a write-up accompanying it.  Otherwise, so dumbasses might just agree with it.

----------


## LittleLightShining

I just emailed Brian and the judge. I also just spoke at length with Allison at C4L, directing her to this thread. Hi Allison

----------


## Bruno

> I think it needs a write-up accompanying it.  Otherwise, so dumbasses might just agree with it.


Good point

----------


## acptulsa

Language is important right now.  Don't get carried away and ***** our game.  We as supporters of a sitting Republican congressman and former Republican presidential candidate are being singled out as likely militia members who should be watched for fear we commit domestic terror.  This is bad enough, it involves all Republicans in our cause, and it's undeniable.

----------


## JVParkour

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=183386&page=3

At the bottom of the page Original_Intent points out that they specifically DO NOT call us terrorists, but rather associated with the militia movement.  I think thats important...

----------


## DAFTEK

WTF! I wonder how many RP supporters on this forum are actually affiliated to a Militia? I havent seen any. And secondly i know hundreds of supporters in my city that are just plain old candidate supporters "most older folks" like any other candidate just like me, i came from Huckabee to Ron Paul because i liked what he had to say in the campaign debates, so RP supporters would be singled out because they might still have a bumper sticker or a t-shirt? This is insane, what is this country coming to?

----------


## Bruno

> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=183386&page=3
> 
> At the bottom of the page Original_Intent points out that they specifically DO NOT call us terrorists, but rather associated with the militia movement.  I think thats important...


anyone remember the anti-militia propaganda smear after Oklahoma City?  

In their eyes, militia = terrorists.

----------


## torchbearer

I don't think we have any militias in Louisiana.
We play 'airsoft' games... would that be considered 'militia training'?

----------


## torchbearer

> anyone remember the anti-militia propaganda smear after Oklahoma City?  
> 
> In their eyes, militia = terrorists.


They just busted some militia guys out west.

----------


## acptulsa

Can we re-submit this to digg and digg up the new version?  What this needs is a headline of 'conservatives singled out as possible terrorists' or 'Republicans singled out as likely militia members'.  That would get much, much more attention.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Originally Posted by Dripping Rain  View Post
> but the report doesnt exactly call RP supporters terrorists
> 
> it just says that militia are more likely to be associated with him and Chuck and Barr
> 
> didnt even call militia terrorists. But it kinda insinnuates they are terrorists. kind of tricky
> 			
> 		
> 
> ...


I pointed this out last night that they didnt call RP supporters "terrorists" but Maverick made a good point

words like "extremists" and "fanatics" arent cool
you think the officers who leave that room wont be more trigger happy when they see a RP or a C4L bumper sticker?

add to that a well educated RP supporter who refuses a warantless search or maybe carrying his gun

----------


## JoshLowry

redacted after reading RPH's post.

----------


## LittleLightShining

Has anyone in Missouri gotten in touch with the Republican Party? What about the RNC? LP? Constitution Party?

----------


## MelissaCato

> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=183386&page=3
> 
> At the bottom of the page Original_Intent points out that they specifically DO NOT call us terrorists, but rather associated with the militia movement.  I think thats important...


Hummmmm ... yes, it is very important concidering everyone in America is a people.

George Mason: "I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people." 

George Washington: "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." 

They are in FACT calling us all Terrorists

----------


## Truth Warrior

*FEMA camp for "attitude readjustment" anyone?* 

*Anyone?*

----------


## Danke

> WTF! I wonder how many RP supporters on this forum are actually affiliated to a Militia? I havent seen any.


All able-bodied adult male 45 years and younger?  No, non of those here.

----------


## Original_Intent

> Language is important right now.  Don't get carried away and ***** our game.  We as supporters of a sitting Republican congressman and former Republican presidential candidate are being singled out as likely militia members who should be watched for fear we commit domestic terror.  This is bad enough, it involves all Republicans in our cause, and it's undeniable.


This.

----------


## JP2010

> Can somebody explain why the pictures don't align properly within the document on the scans?


Because someone used a flatbed scanner and the paper moved when they closed the lid, thus making an mis-aligned scan of the document.

Try it at home on your scanner.  That is the only reason.

----------


## fedup100

> anyone remember the anti-militia propaganda smear after Oklahoma City?  
> 
> In their eyes, militia = terrorists.


I have seen this coming for this forum and other Paul supporters for a long while now.  The situation is real and far more serious than you know.  

I have also warned to stop smearing this forum with the word "anarchist" to no avail.  I believe those who have done this repeatedly are instigators. 

Look for the next big FALSE FLAG event to have the movements name falsely attached to it.

----------


## MikeStanart

This boils my blood. 

Guess what i'm doing with my stimulus check?

----------


## acptulsa

Well, damn it people, don't just vent here.  Get your language right and find an excuse to stuff it in somewhere on every forum you have an account at.  I just put it up at Slate.com in a section calling Obama a "New Democrat".  My angle was, 'This is Democracy?!'

Spread it far and wide!  Make it viral!

----------


## Original_Intent

I forwarded the Alex Jones link to World Net Daily and highlighted the section going after Ron Paul supporters and anti abortionists.

They are VERY pro life over there and I wouldn't be surprised if they run a story. Not the best website in the world, but at least it is exposure (if they run it)

----------


## Dorfsmith

I posted it around facebook. I hope somebody else picks the story up. A lot of my facebook friends won't click on an infowars link.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Well, damn it people, don't just vent here. Get your language right and find an excuse to stuff it in somewhere on every forum you have an account at. I just put it up at Slate.com in a section calling Obama a "New Democrat". My angle was, 'This is Democracy?!'
> 
> Spread it far and wide! Make it viral!


 *Nope, this Patriot Acts I & II.  You're just really gonna LOVE, Act III.*

----------


## acptulsa

> I posted it around facebook. I hope somebody else picks the story up. A lot of my facebook friends won't click on an infowars link.


Yeah.  I have an advantage, as I can say that I have personally dialed that number and spoken to this specific lieutenant.  Well, we can put the digg link up and hope they get more interested in the memo than in the source...

----------


## acptulsa

And if anyone gives you any grief at all, ask them this:

Do you honestly believe that profiling people based on their candidate bumper stickers is good for a free republic?

----------


## Truth Warrior

> And if anyone gives you any grief at all, ask them this:
> 
> Do you honestly believe that profiling people based on their candidate bumper stickers is good for a free republic?


 *Write your "representatives".*

----------


## Dripping Rain

did anyone bother to record his/her phone call with the police
incase they deny this at any point?

----------


## Dripping Rain

i admit i didnt call im afraid to be added to a list
but if youre calling anyways please record
thanks

----------


## Johnnybags

> i admit i didnt call im afraid to be added to a list
> but if youre calling anyways please record
> thanks


Make no mistake, you post, you are profiled and you are on the list. You should be proud to make the list of Patriots instead of lemmings.

----------


## acptulsa

> did anyone bother to record his/her phone call with the police
> incase they deny this at any point?


No.  Thought about it, but had no way to do it.  Besides, I believe this is subject to both the laws of your state and the laws of Missouri.  I didn't want to silence the man I reached by warning him that I was recording the call, and didn't want to risk recording it without disclosure.

----------


## acptulsa

> I don't think we have any militias in Louisiana.
> We play 'airsoft' games... would that be considered 'militia training'?


I love it.  Nice comeback in case anyone gets grief over this.  'Are they going to raid every paintball club in the nation?'

----------


## Dripping Rain

> No.  Thought about it, but had no way to do it.  Besides, I believe this is subject to both the laws of your state and the laws of Missouri.  I didn't want to silence the man I reached by warning him that I was recording the call, and didn't want to risk recording it without disclosure.


this requires 2 people
one to record without asking
the other to record if granted permission
its good you didnt think of it before confirming
now I think it wont matter since its already been cpnfirmed
the first recording would do good to be released if they deny it

----------


## dannno

> i admit i didnt call im afraid to be added to a list
> but if youre calling anyways please record
> thanks


Seriously. Where are all of the shills out there? Why aren't you calling this number to help us verify since you're so sure the government isn't really out to get us? There couldn't possibly be a "list" right? I mean, what are they going to do, throw us in FEMA camps? HAH! Preposterous.. SO call them for us!!

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Seriously. Where are all of the shills out there? Why aren't you calling this number to help us verify since you're so sure the government isn't really out to get us? There couldn't possibly be a "list" right? I mean, what are they going to do, throw us in FEMA camps? HAH! Preposterous.. SO call them for us!!


read my replies since last night
pages 3,4,5

infact I slammed those who were calling it BS
thanks for calling me a shill anyways
when i first saw the post I was 80% sure it was true
I listen to AJ too btw
and yes I believe there are lists of people
this is not a conspiracy theory only
its proven facts. what will be done with those lists? I dont know. being afraid to go on a list is something but it doesnt mean Im a wimp. when Im facing a bad situation I stand up for my rights and the rights of my friends & family

----------


## acptulsa

> thanks for calling me a shill anyways


If I'm reading his post right, you misunderstood him.  He didn't call _you_ anything.

----------


## ramallamamama

AJ is talking about this when he gets back from break....

----------


## Dripping Rain

> If I'm reading his post right, you misunderstood him.  He didn't call _you_ anything.


I think he thinks I was one of the naysayers who calls people kooky conspiracy theorists but Im afraid to call the police so that i wont be on a list
if I read it right
I hope I read wrong and I apologize if I have

----------


## ramallamamama

Secret State Police Report: Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Libertarians are Terrorists
http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
March 11, 2009

Alex Jones has received a secret report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement” and dated February 20, 2009. A footer on the document indicates it is “unclassified” but “law enforcement sensitive,” in other words not for public consumption. A copy of the report was sent to Jones by an anonymous Missouri police officer.


The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

“Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) provides a public safety partnership consisting of local, state and federal agencies, as well as the public sector and private entities that will collect, evaluate, analyze, and disseminate information and intelligence to the agencies tasked with Homeland Security responsibilities in a timely, effective, and secure manner,” explains the MIAC website. “MIAC is the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri. MIAC will also function as a vehicle for two-way communication between federal, state and local law enforcement community within our region.”

MIAC is part of the federal “fusion” effort now underway around the country. “As of February 2009, there were 58 fusion centers around the country. The Department has deployed 31 officers as of December 2008 and plans to have 70 professionals deployed by the end of 2009. The Department has provided more than $254 million from FY 2004-2007 to state and local governments to support the centers,” explains the Department of Homeland Security on its website. Missouri is mentioned as a participant in this federal “intelligence” effort.

Last month, the ACLU issued a news release highlighting the activity of a fusion center in Texas as the “latest example of inappropriate police intelligence operations targeting political, religious and social activists for investigation,” in particular “Muslim civil rights organizations and anti-war protest groups.”

The MIAC report does not concentrate on Muslim terrorists, but rather on the so-called “militia movement” and conflates it with supporters of Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr, the so-called patriot movement and other political activist organizations opposed to the North American Union and the New World Order. The MIAC document is a classic guilt by association effort designed to demonize legitimate political activity that stands in opposition to the New World Order and its newly enshrined front man, Barack Obama.

In September of 2008, Missouri sheriffs and prosecutors organized truth squads to intimidate people opposed to Obama and threatened to arrest and prosecute anybody who ran “misleading television ads.” Missouri governor Matt Blunt eventually denounced the use of “police state tactics” on the part of the Obama-Biden campaign.

MIAC claims members of a “rightwing” militia movement organized in the 1990s — generally in response to the Oklahoma City bombing and the events at Waco — “continuously exploit world events in order to increase participation in their movements. Due to the current economical and political situation, a lush environment for militia activity has been created” and supposedly exploited by “constitutionalists” and “white supremacists,” the latter an oft-employed canard used to demonize activists as dangerous and potentially violent lunatics.

MIAC notes many of the political issues cited by the so-called patriot movement — the Ammunition Accountability Act, the impending economic collapse of the government, the possibility of a constitutional convention, the North American Union, Obama’s “Universal Service Program,” and the implementation of RFID, issues that are not limited to the patriot movement but are shared by a wide array of political activists.

The MIAC document includes a map of the North American Union not dissimilar from one released by NASCO, the North America SuperCorridor Coalition (see the NASCO map here).

The MIAC report is similar to one created by the Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Joint Terrorism Task Force during the Clinton administration (see page one and page two of the document). The FBI document explicitly designates “defenders” of the Constitution as “right-wing extremists.” The MIAC report expands significantly on the earlier document.

In order to artificially heighten the perceived threat threshold, MIAC rolls in Christian Identity, white nationalism, “militant” anti-abortion activists, opposition to illegal immigration, and income tax resistance. MIAC deceptively blurs the lines between these disparate political ideologies and underscores the possibility for violence in a summary of the organizational structure of the militia movement and a section describing how members strive to train in “combat readiness.”

The MIAC effort to characterize Libertarians and Constitutionalists as racists is reminiscent of an attempt by the corporate media in early 2008 to portray Ron Paul as a racist by attempting to link him to a series of vaguely racist newsletters produced in the 1980s. Paul did not exercise editorial control over the newsletters and went so far as to apologize for them, but this did not prevent the corporate media from characterizing him as a racist.

According to MIAC, opposition to world government, NAFTA, federalization of the states, and restrictive gun laws are a threat to the police. “The militia subscribes to an anti-government and NWO mindset, which creates a threat to law enforcement officers. They view the military, National Guard, and law enforcement as a force that will confiscate their firearms and place them in FEMA concentration camps,” the document claims in a section entitled “You are the Enemy.”

In regard to supposed militia movement literature and media, the MIAC report mentions Aaron Russo’s America: Freedom to Fascism and William Luther Pierce’s The Turner Diaries — the latter was penned by the former leader of the white nationalist organization National Alliance and the former by a Libertarian filmmaker. In order to underscore the absurdity of the MIAC attempt to link Pierce’s novel and Russo’s anti-tax documentary, it should be noted that the late Aaron Russo was Jewish and The Turner Dairies posits a Zionist government in America (or ZOG, the Zionist Occupation Government) run by Jews.

The award-winning film Zeitgeist, featuring Alex Jones, is also mentioned as terrorist material.

The MIAC report is particularly pernicious because it indoctrinates Missouri law enforcement in the belief that people who oppose confiscatory taxation, believe in the well-documented existence of a New World Order and world government (a Google search of this phrase will pull up numerous references made by scores of establishment political leaders), and are opposed to the obvious expansion of the federal government at the expense of the states as violent extremists who are gunning for the police. It specifically targets supporters of mainstream political candidates and encourages police officers to consider them dangerous terrorists.

MIAC is attempting to radicalize the police against political activity guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. If Missouri police indoctrinated by MIAC propaganda overreact to political activists and supporters of Ron Paul in their state and injure or kill people involved in entirely legal and legitimate political activity, MIAC, the governor of Missouri (his name appears on the MIAC document), and the DHS and federal government should be held directly responsible and prosecuted the fullest extent of the law.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> AJ is talking about this when he gets back from break....


Im listening to AJ right now
thanks ram

----------


## Truth Warrior

*"The original American patriots were those individuals brave enough to resist with force the oppressive power of King George. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist oppressive state power. The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state." -- Ron Paul*

----------


## pcosmar

Wow, I can't believe the reactions.




> Originally Posted by* acptulsa*  
> Language is important right now. Don't get carried away and ***** our game. We as supporters of a sitting Republican congressman and former Republican presidential candidate are being singled out as likely militia members who should be watched for fear we commit domestic terror. This is bad enough, it involves all Republicans in our cause, and it's undeniable.


I'm not a Republican. I am an American. Right now I am an angry American.




> Originally Posted by *Bruno* 
> anyone remember the anti-militia propaganda smear after Oklahoma City?
> 
> In their eyes, militia = terrorists.


I remember.
I watched the "investigation". They killed the patsy and blamed the militia.




> Originally Posted by *torchbearer*  
> I don't think we have any militias in Louisiana.
> We play 'airsoft' games... would that be considered 'militia training'?


The militia is not to be feared. They should be honored.
The Standing Army of Police was warned of by the founders, and should not exist.
Some folks got this all backwards.

----------


## Original_Intent

I've also forwarded this on to Nat'l HQ of the Constitution Party - we'll see if they have any official response.

----------


## acptulsa

> Some folks got this all backwards.


I freely admit to you and anyone that my inputs are suggested spin.  Fine, now we're angry.  Now, how do we get some more people angry?  My answer is, by convincing a larger group than us that they need to speak up for us, lest they be next.

Doesn't mean anyone here doesn't understand.

----------


## Truth Warrior

*"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;* 
*And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;* 
*And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;* 
*And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." -- Pastor Martin Niemoller*

----------


## A. Havnes

> *"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;* 
> *And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;* 
> *And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;* 
> *And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." -- Pastor Martin Niemoller*


That always chills me, and I can almost see it happening around me.  We have to wake people up!  I just sent the article around.

----------


## acptulsa

> That always chills me, and I can almost see it happening around me.  We have to wake people up!  I just sent the article around.


I still remember where I was and who I was with the first time I ever heard it.  And that was about twenty-eight years ago.

----------


## Original_Intent

> *"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;* 
> *And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;* 
> *And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;* 
> *And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." -- Pastor Martin Niemoller*


It's why I always stand up for accused drug dealers rights on search and seizure, even though I have never touched drugs myself. The alw has to work for them or it won't work for me.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> That always chills me, and I can almost see it happening around me. We have to wake people up! I just sent the article around.


 *I've been working at it, WITH getting a bunch of crap.*

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> "Constitutionalists singled out as dangerous militia members"
> 
> That kind of is the truth though.  That's what a militia is all about.  They don't watch movies and eat popcorn.


Me-thinks we need to be very careful in our language when discussing homeland security issues. The organized groups being called "The Modern Militia Movement" are far removed from our historical militia, (Organized Militia acted in league with local authorities. Un-organized Militia was every able bodied man, who could be called to act in an Organized Militia, when need arose.)

The Militia method of dealing with Homeland Security issues remains the most sensible, and that is why I'd like to see people be very careful with language. IOW, saying,  "That's what a militia is all about." re-inforces the negative stereotyping being foisted on us by those who would rather Americans forget about the quaint old concepts of constitutional "Homeland Security", via a well organized Miltia.

In this country, I simply see groups of sportsman, and athletes, who gather together, (like any other organization) to better their skills and socialize. I think a dis-service is done when the word "Militia" is attached to such groups. 

I would hope that some will find a way, during this developing event, to promote Dr. Vieira's book, "Constitutional Homeland Security" and the work being done by Walter Reddy to re-invigorate the true "Well-Organized Militia", via working with State Legislatures; which remains the most sensible approach to providing for the common defense, (and a bad-ass Navy- imo...)

----------


## acptulsa

Has anyone else's computer gotten quite slow the last several minutes, or is it just me?

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Has anyone else's computer gotten quite slow the last several minutes, or is it just me?


mine running smooth
they maybe coming to get you
lol just playing with you

edit: on second thought the site is a little slow

----------


## Danke

> Has anyone else's computer gotten quite slow the last several minutes, or is it just me?


hmm, mine does that all the time!!

----------


## acptulsa

We've got weather here.  That is undoubtedly it.

----------


## Aratus

> Me-thinks we need to be very careful in our language when discussing homeland security issues. The organized groups being called "The Modern Militia Movement" are far removed from our historical militia, (Organized Militia acted in league with local authorities. Un-organized Militia was every able bodied man, who could be called to act in an Organized Militia, when need arose.)
> 
> The Militia method of dealing with Homeland Security issues remains the most sensible, and that is why I'd like to see people be very careful with language. IOW, saying,  "That's what a militia is all about." re-inforces the negative stereotyping being foisted on us by those who would rather Americans forget about the quaint old concepts of constitutional "Homeland Security", via a well organized Miltia.
> 
> In this country, I simply see groups of sportsman, and athletes, who gather together, (like any other organization) to better their skills and socialize. I think a dis-service is done when the word "Militia" is attached to such groups. 
> 
> I would hope that some will find a way, during this developing event, to promote Dr. Vieira's book, "Constitutional Homeland Security" and the work being done by Walter Reddy to re-invigorate the true "Well-Organized Militia", via working with State Legislatures; which remains the most sensible approach to providing for the common defense, (and a bad-ass Navy- imo...)


good point ronpaulhawaii!!! lets not blanket brush and lets ask BILL OF RIGHTs questions!!!

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Has anyone in Missouri gotten in touch with the Republican Party? What about the RNC? LP? Constitution Party?


Right now I think that all of these parties need to stand up. If the GOP does not address the fact that they are singling out supporters of a sitting U.S. congressman, who also ran for president then we know with zero doubt for now on they are on the same page. 

When is the C4L think in MO.? I have serious concerns about that event now. They will literally have hundreds of us in one place. However, we can use that as a great opportunity to have a massive protest of this document and what it stands for.

----------


## Aratus

> I've also forwarded this on to Nat'l HQ of the Constitution Party - we'll see if they have any official response.



there should be an official mass  media response that has a basic statement of principles...

----------


## Truth Warrior

> We've got weather here. That is undoubtedly it.


 *It's working fine for me, using Cox.*

----------


## Aratus

the palmer raids are WW1
the mcCarthy witchhunts are cold war
COINTELPRO is current to when 'nam happens...

----------


## Aratus

not to re-fight the war between the states, our civil war, 
however we know presses were silenced on both sides 
during that tragic conflict... for war often eclipses freedom...

----------


## Danke

> *It's working fine for me, using Cox.*


*That's 'cause they know you're no threat. <IMHO>*

----------


## Truth Warrior

> not to re-fight the war between the states, our civil war, 
> however we know presses were silenced on both sides 
> during that tragic conflict... for war often eclipses freedom...


*"War is the HEALTH of the STATE."*

----------


## JoshLowry

> Me-thinks we need to be very careful in our language when discussing homeland security issues. The organized groups being called "The Modern Militia Movement" are far removed from our historical militia, (Organized Militia acted in league with local authorities. Un-organized Militia was every able bodied man, who could be called to act in an Organized Militia, when need arose.)
> 
> The Militia method of dealing with Homeland Security issues remains the most sensible, and that is why I'd like to see people be very careful with language. IOW, saying,  "That's what a militia is all about." re-inforces the negative stereotyping being foisted on us by those who would rather Americans forget about the quaint old concepts of constitutional "Homeland Security", via a well organized Miltia.
> 
> In this country, I simply see groups of sportsman, and athletes, who gather together, (like any other organization) to better their skills and socialize. I think a dis-service is done when the word "Militia" is attached to such groups. 
> 
> I would hope that some will find a way, during this developing event, to promote Dr. Vieira's book, "Constitutional Homeland Security" and the work being done by Walter Reddy to re-invigorate the true "Well-Organized Militia", via working with State Legislatures; which remains the most sensible approach to providing for the common defense, (and a bad-ass Navy- imo...)


Well said!

Redacted...

----------


## Aratus

given that the Civil War is easily one million casualties let alone roughly 600,ooo battlefield deaths 
...i'd infer WWII is significantly less tragic for us. are we heathier because we had our Civil War
or are we all healthier because we in compassion once let people our heal? we won WW2...

----------


## Scribbler de Stebbing

> We've got weather here.  That is undoubtedly it.


OMG!  Now they're attacking us with weather!

----------


## Danke

> OMG!  Now they're attacking us with weather!


HAARP, High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program.

----------


## Aratus

WW2 has us as a superpower. yet we are still a democracy...

----------


## LittleLightShining

I'm probably going to be on AJ soon.

----------


## ihsv

This has Southern Poverty Law Center written all over it.

For those who don't know, SPLC claims to be a a "hate watch" organization, and are heavily involved in police training.  They research, track, designate, and take legal action against any organization they deem to be a "hate group".   In addition to getting revenue from lawsuits against "hate groups", they also stir the pot and solicit donations so they can go on fighting "hate."  

They have a research arm that does nothing but research individuals and organizations, and they frequently compile memos and dossiers on those they feel to be "intollerant".   As mentioned before, they are heavily involved in police training, passing on their "information" to various police departments and governmental organizations.  

The style and substance of this memo is exactly the kind of thing they would produce.  I would be willing to bet any amount of FRNs that this info was not compiled by the Missouri State Police, but rather is a "hand me down" from the SPLC.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> This has Southern Poverty Law Center written all over it.
> 
> For those who don't know, SPLC claims to be a a "hate watch" organization, and are heavily involved in police training.  They research, track, designate, and take legal action against any organization they deem to be a "hate group".   In addition to getting revenue from lawsuits against "hate groups", they also stir the pot and solicit donations so they can go on fighting "hate."  
> 
> They have a research arm that does nothing but research individuals and organizations, and they frequently compile memos and dossiers on those they feel to be "intollerant".   As mentioned before, they are heavily involved in police training, passing on their "information" to various police departments and governmental organizations.  
> 
> The style and substance of this memo is exactly the kind of thing they would produce.  I would be willing to bet any amount of FRNs that this info was not compiled by the Missouri State Police, but rather is a "hand me down" from the SPLC.


Alex Jones and Paul watson talked about it and according to their research the ADL has written most the talking points in this memo

----------


## ihsv

SPLC and ADL work closely together.  

I just went to SPLC website:

http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

Check out their main graphic

Also, check out their "hate map"

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

----------


## UtahApocalypse

The C4l Convention is just 3 weeks away...... Coincidence this was just now released???

----------


## Dripping Rain

> SPLC and ADL work closely together.  
> 
> I just went to SPLC website:
> 
> http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp
> 
> Check out their main graphic
> 
> Also, check out their "hate map"
> ...


interesting
same colors as the ADL
White on blue
like the Israeli flag
did I get it right?

----------


## ramallamamama

> I'm probably going to be on AJ soon.


You're doing great!

----------


## Dripping Rain

> The C4l Convention is just 3 weeks away...... Coincidence this was just now released???


wasnt really released
was leaked probably by a cop who supports Paul
what's interesting is when the secret meeting happened

----------


## ihsv

> interesting
> same colors as the ADL
> White on blue
> like the Israeli flag
> did I get it right?


No, their main graphic:

----------


## Dripping Rain

> No, their main graphic:


oh yes
how did I miss that?
they all look like paid actors who probably work for them
its interesting how they have men in fatigues all in time with this crap
they also look so thuggish. like real White supremacist thugs who are probably shills
none of the militia people I know look like that

those people are very good propaganda artists I have to give it to them


ps Ive never heard of the SPLC
thanks for bringing them to my attention

----------


## ihsv

Here's an article from their latest "Intelligence Report" on the "Sovereign Citizen movement"

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intel...e.jsp?aid=1001

Here's a list from their latest "Intelligence Report" on "Patriot Groups"

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intel...e.jsp?aid=1024

----------


## LittleLightShining

> You're doing great!


Thanks, he didn't let me finish but I'm happy with it.

----------


## pcosmar

> SPLC and ADL work closely together.  
> 
> I just went to SPLC website:
> 
> http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp
> 
> Check out their main graphic
> 
> Also, check out their "hate map"
> ...


Yup, went looking there yesterday. Seemed to be their MO.

This is interesting,
Under General Hate Groups.
*East Lansing*  
·  	Young Americans for Freedom--MI State University
		General Hate
*Clackamas*  
·  	National Prayer Network
		General Hate
*Hildale*  
·  	Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints
		General Hate

----------


## ihsv

The John Birch Society and Constitution Party feature heavily on their "Patriot Group" list

----------


## MelissaCato

Is this the ADL you people are talking about ? 
http://www.adl.org/

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Yup, went looking there yesterday. Seemed to be their MO.
> 
> This is interesting,
> Under General Hate Groups.
> *East Lansing*  
> ·  	Young Americans for Freedom--MI State University
> 		General Hate


WTF?
isnt that YAL ?
someone needs to inform Jeff Frazee from YAL ASAP

send an email to YAL NOW

this is getting crazier and crazier
thanks pcosmar
good job

----------


## ramallamamama

> Thanks, he didn't let me finish but I'm happy with it.


Heh, he hardly lets anyone finish. You're welcome.

----------


## acptulsa

> The style and substance of this memo is exactly the kind of thing they would produce.  I would be willing to bet any amount of FRNs that this info was not compiled by the Missouri State Police, but rather is a "hand me down" from the SPLC.


Well, now.  Let's just see if we can embarass the State of Missouri to such an extent that every state, county and municipality in the nation is afraid to touch any SLPC material with a ten foot pole!

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Is this the ADL you people are talking about ? 
> http://www.adl.org/


yes it is

its a very dangerous and Powerful Hate group that has a very creepy history ill try to link up a few educational resources on the ADL

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> wasnt really released
> was leaked probably by a cop who supports Paul
> what's interesting is when the secret meeting happened


May not have been released to the public, but even the Lt. guy admitted that it was sent out to LE just recently.

----------


## ihsv

> Is this the ADL you people are talking about ? 
> http://www.adl.org/


Southern Poverty Law Center.

SPLcenter.org

THe ADL focuses on "anti-semitism", while the SPLC focuses on that and everything else.  The SPLC is *heavily* involved in police and government training on these and other topics.

----------


## Dripping Rain

Revrend Ted Pike on the ADL
one of the worst enemies of the ADL and one of the experts on this disgusting hate group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs_M68G42EI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd7XgumTPg4


heres another great video by Pike exposing this dangerous Hate group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV0YNT1byNo

----------


## CatherineBleish

Transfered me to public information office and line was busy....  573-526-6115

----------


## CatherineBleish

OK I just got through.

"AT the moment I am taking names and phone numbers of anyone interested in a phone call back." 

I told her in 30 minutes I am sending to the press and to our entire state email list if they don't call me back with some answers and a strategic plan to undo this.  Lets see what happens.

----------


## Sandra

> WTF?
> isnt that YAL ?
> someone needs to inform Jeff Frazee from YAL ASAP
> 
> send an email to YAL NOW
> 
> this is getting crazier and crazier
> thanks pcosmar
> good job


That is *YAF*, Young Americans for Freedom

Frazee is head of *YAL*. Different group.

----------


## acptulsa

Anyone in KC or St. Louis?  How about letters to the _Star_ (is that right?) and the _Post-Dispatch_?  I'll write them if no locals are available to do it, but they are far more fond of letters from locals.  The Springfield paper (_News-Leader_ iirc) is Knight-Ridder or some such; I lack faith.  Which is a shame, because that is the most Republican corner of the state.

----------


## CatherineBleish

We have a press release in process.  It will go out in 20 minutes if they do not call me.  This is complete defamation of character.   To all KC major press - we'll post a copy here for StL and others to use.

----------


## acptulsa

> We have a press release in process.  It will go out in 20 minutes if they do not call me.  This is complete defamation of character.   To all KC major press - we'll post a copy here for StL and others to use.


Please feel free to incorporate anything at all I posted here today if you think it will help speed up the writing process.

----------


## Sandra

A press release concerning this will have major blowback. The maker of the flyer has a backward "B" on the cheek, so to speak. This will be pinned on RP supporters running a hoax. Don't expect the PD to back it up.

----------


## LittleLightShining

It was suggested to me that we get in touch with the ACLU about this.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> That is *YAF*, Young Americans for Freedom
> 
> Frazee is head of *YAL*. Different group.


thanks for pointing that out Sandra
I thought YAF is affiliated with YAL
guess Im wrong

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> WTF?
> isnt that YAL ?
> someone needs to inform Jeff Frazee from YAL ASAP
> 
> send an email to YAL NOW
> 
> this is getting crazier and crazier
> thanks pcosmar
> good job


The calmer we remain, the better we look...




> That is *YAF*, Young Americans for Freedom
> 
> Frazee is head of *YAL*. Different group.


Thank you, Sandra...

Interesting that CoS gets a whole paragraph on pg5. Apart from the ol' "guilt by association", the intro is not bad; talking about lobbying for change. It does use a strange phrases about confronting corruption that I do not recognize as part of the CoS's philosophy;




> We believe that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. 
> 
> We believe that it is the obligation of every American to help preserve these rights so that we can live in a country where the freedom to live, work, and prosper is secure. 
> 
> We believe that our security depends upon good, honest and brave Americans, who are well versed in the principles of freedom and individual rights; and who are united in will to protect the system that our Founders set in place for our personal safety, economic prosperity and domestic tranquility. 
> 
> We believe we currently face unprecedented political, economic and social challenges that seriously threaten our liberties, our material well being, and the peaceful enjoyment of the fruits of our labors. 
> 
> Therefore we have established the Committees of Safety, declaring as our mission: 
> ...


Earned media is very valuable, but it can be a dangerous beast... Calm and rational; wisdom wins the day...

----------


## aravoth

Wish I could say that I was surprised about this. Guess I'll see you guys at "camp freedom". Along with all the other anti-American freedom haters......

$#@! this $#@!.

----------


## Cowlesy

> the calmer we remain, the better we look...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, sandra...
> 
> Interesting that cos gets a whole paragraph on pg5. Apart from the ol' "guilt by association", the intro is not bad; talking about lobbying for change. It does use a strange phrases about confronting corruption that i do not recognize as part of the cos's philosophy;
> 
> 
> ...



+10000

----------


## Elwar

I guess my mother's dreams of me not growing up to be a terrorist has been crushed.

----------


## slacker921

I wonder if *these folks* would like to know that you won't be visiting Missouri this Summer?

----------


## CatherineBleish

OUr press release will simply say - we are unsure of the validity of this document, but this is what we have, these are our concerns and this is what we have done to try to resolve it (including documentation of the phone calls we made and copies of the emails we sent).  It will say that either way we wanted to make sure the press was on the cutting edge of this - if it happens to be a fraud then hopefully we will identify by who, if not, it will be out and in the public.

I will be in Jefferson City with a video camera tomorrow morning if they do not respond to me today.

----------


## aravoth

> I guess my mother's dreams of me not growing up to be a terrorist has been crushed.


lol, the only people instigating terror are the people that made those pamphlets. I have never, not once advocated for a single thing that could be construed at "terroristic", neither has anyone here. This is a load of $#@!. If people advocating for a change in government policy are suddenly declared terrorists, then you should go right ahead and add the legions of Obama supporters rampaging across the country advocating for the suppression of conservative thought while promoting an agenda of servitude and despotism.

----------


## acptulsa

> I wonder if *these folks* would like to know that you won't be visiting Missouri this Summer?


Brilliant!  And I found a newspaper which is not only in the most Republican corner of the state, but in a town that derives some odd 87+% of its existence to tourism:

http://www.bransondailynews.com/

Ms. Bleisch, please post that press release.  If we can tailor the message to certain corners of the state without repeating you, we will.

----------


## CatherineBleish

As soon as my PR guy is done, I will post it.  Their 30 minutes are up so it will go live as soon as he gets it to me!

----------


## donnay

> Hull said the information is correct and was put out to educate law enforcement officers about potential threats from violent militia groups. It is a strategic alert to address trends and officer safety issues. He said that there have been incidents in the past where militia groups target law enforcement officers (in one case killing an officer) and that they need to be aware of all potential threats.
> 
> I asked him if this wasn't profiling by singling out people that might have Ron Paul bumperstickers on their car and he said (again and again) that it was not profiling. I asked him if an officer, after seeing this pamphlet would be more suspicious of a driver who was pulled over for a traffic violation if there was a sticker on the car. He said no. COME ON!I asked him again then what the point would be and he reiterated the education refrain above.



I heard you on Alex earlier--great job!

I have tried calling Captain Tim Hull and have not been able to reach them their phone is busy--guess that may be a good sign of true patriots ringing their phones off the wall.

This is no different than the FBI memo that was sent out internally in Arizona.  There are FEMA Representative who have taught classes to the LEO's that the founding fathers were terrorists.  

Source 1: http://www.infowars.com/constitutional_terrorists.htm 

Source 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XC1f...layer_embedded

Here is more information of internal memos that went out in Texas as well:
http://thetruthproject.us/2001/09/11...ning-pamphlet/

This is so serious! Everyone should be angry and make it a point to speak out loudly against this!

----------


## slacker921

IIRC there were some ex state senators and such in Missouri who endorsed Ron Paul and/or Baldwin.  It'd be good if the C4L could track some of them down and get them on the local TV or have them call some of their friends..    

Having respectable and well known people in the community speak out against this is would be ideal.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

The fact that this is 3 weeks before the big C4L event in St. Louis really scares the bejebus out of me.

----------


## EndTheFed

Hey....   Never let a good crisis go to waste...


   Pitch forks and tourches....  or an M16

----------


## acptulsa

> As soon as my PR guy is done, I will post it.  Their 30 minutes are up so it will go live as soon as he gets it to me!


Sorry, got impatient.

Editor, the _Daily News_:

I have recently become aware of a memo released by the Missouri Information Analysis Center and released to law enforcement agencies statewide that suggests that people with bumper stickers on their cars be, basically, 'profiled' as members of secret militias.  Among these bumper stickers are those for presidential candidates in the last election, and among those is former Republican candidate and respected Republican sitting congressman Ron Paul.

So, in order to be safe from 'profiling' and being accused of being a member of some shadowy and illicit 'militia', I have to remove my sticker for my preferred Republican from my bumper?  Folks, I like Branson and I love the Ozarks, but I'm not going to peel stickers from my bumper just to come see and spend money with you.  Sorry.

Someone needs to have a word with Jefferson City...

----------


## Dripping Rain

> I wonder if *these folks* would like to know that you won't be visiting Missouri this Summer?


you should get free admission to MIT

sorry for calling you names 15 pages ago

----------


## LittleLightShining

> I heard you on Alex earlier--great job!
> 
> I have tried calling Captain Tim Hull and have not been able to reach them their phone is busy--guess that may be a good sign of true patriots ringing their phones off the wall.
> 
> This is no different than the FBI memo that was sent out internally in Arizona.  There are FEMA Representative who have taught classes to the LEO's that the founding fathers were terrorists.  
> 
> 
> This is so serious! Everyone should be angry and make it a point to speak out loudly against this!


Thanks 

I am sure they are being FLOODED with calls. From everywhere-- as they well should be.

----------


## JoshLowry

> Thanks 
> 
> I am sure they are being FLOODED with calls. From everywhere-- as they well should be.



Aww, I missed it.  I saw that you were on hold but I had to leave and go show a house.

Cliffnotes on your call?  Any RPF shoutouts?

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Aww, I missed it.  I saw that you were on hold but I had to leave and go show a house.
> 
> Cliffnotes on your call?  Any RPF shoutouts?


I'm sorry. I should have mentioned rpf. I basically reiterated what I've said in this thread. Tried to tie in the point about Ron Paul being a respected Republican Congressman and also mentioned the C4L conference (with a healthy dose of irate toddler in the background :] ). I'd like to hear it again but I don't know how to extract a portion of audio from a podcast.

----------


## FrankRep

Secret State Police Report: Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Libertarians are Terrorists

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/35553

----------


## donnay

> I'm sorry. I should have mentioned rpf. I basically reiterated what I've said in this thread. Tried to tie in the point about Ron Paul being a respected Republican Congressman and also mentioned the C4L conference. I'd like to hear it again but I don't know how to extract a portion of audio from a podcast.


It will re-feed again at 4:00 EST.  It runs continuously for 24 hours.

----------


## hotbrownsauce

I live in St. Louis and will be following this closely. I too thought this was a hoax at first. But that has been resolved. If you feel the need to share valuable information with me drop me a line in my PM.

----------


## JoshLowry

> I'm sorry. I should have mentioned rpf. I basically reiterated what I've said in this thread. Tried to tie in the point about Ron Paul being a respected Republican Congressman and also mentioned the C4L conference (with a healthy dose of irate toddler in the background :] ). I'd like to hear it again but I don't know how to extract a portion of audio from a podcast.


Cool!  Nice job.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Secret State Police Report: Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Libertarians are Terrorists
> 
> http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/35553


Great article!! Expands upon things quite well. Also does not have the 'taste' that AJ leaves for some on digg:

http://digg.com/politics/Secret_Stat...Report_Targets

----------


## newbitech

can someone link the entire PDF that was leaked please.

----------


## acptulsa

> can someone link the entire PDF that was leaked please.


Infowars shows all eight pages.  I don't know of any other source.

----------


## dude58677

> thats the first thing I thought
> I may think this may have been done on purpose to scare away Ron Paul supporters in MO
> 
> *but the report doesnt exactly call RP supporters terrorists*
> 
> it just says that militia are more likely to be associated with him and Chuck and Barr
> 
> didnt even call militia terrorists. But it kinda insinnuates they are terrorists. kind of tricky
> 
> this is like something from the Obama forum. only problem is its real. people who still think its a hoax should call the 1-800 number and confirmed it


I'm afraid if I call the number, it will create blowback. The MO police haven't threatened me so I'm not going to get into an entangling alliance and have them come after me.

----------


## newbitech

> Infowars shows all eight pages.  I don't know of any other source.


yeah I saw that.  Its all images tho, not portable.  It needs to be converted to a pdf to make it portable.  I don't have adobe pro, maybe I'll go ahead and use the free one.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

To think C4L is spending quite a bit of money for the event in St. Louis. Members will spend even more on food, and hotels. The state is going to have a nice chunk of tax monies from this event.

Now MO back stabs us this way. If C4L does not speak out about this I will be extremely disappointed again.

----------


## CatherineBleish

Press Release

For Immediate Release

Liberty Restoration Project responds to Document released by Mo. Division of Drug and Crime Control/ Missouri Information Analysis Center

Kansas City, MO. March 12th 2009:

     The Liberty Restoration Project (LRP) obtained a notice today that was released by the Missouri Division of Drug and Crime Control, P.O. Box 568 in Jefferson City today. This document is written in a form the declares that Militia Members most commonly associate with 3rd Party political groups indicating Congressman Ron Paul, former Congressman Bob Barr, and Pastor Chuck Baldwin to be springboards of Anti-government militia groups in Missouri. The Liberty Restoration Project views this document as defamation to a growing Freedom Movement that is focused on peace, freedom, civil liberty, and constitutional obedience. The Liberty Restoration Project in Kansas City is a focus group based off of many of the principles laid forth by 3rd Party leaders, including an audit and/or repeal of the Federal Reserve Banks of the United States, and many other topics that are addressed by these leaders.            

The document in question is still pending a confirmation of validity, yet when representatives of the LRP have called the attached phone numbers, they have been met with confirming messages stating that they are aware of the document, and that they would have someone return a phone call. One of the reasons the LRP believes that this document is so destructive is because of Congressman Ron Pauls Regional Campaign For Liberty conference in St. Louis starting on the 27th of March, 2009 which will bring in hundreds of Ron Paul supporters and Freedom Movement groups. The LRP believes that this is a blatant attempt to stifle liberty and a message that teaches American people what it means to be an American with a voice, and a message of peace and civil liberty. The Liberty Restoration Project is currently awaiting a response from the Division of Drug and Crime Control. The only names listed on this document come in the form of email, and the names listed are: Brandon Middleton, and Greg Hug.  

The Liberty Restoration Project also wants to express their views about Militias, citing the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution; A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Although no members of the LRP are members of a militia, they feel that a Militia is Constutionally founded and have advocated in the past for Missouri representatives to adhere to their oath of office to uphold the Constitution and abide by the 2nd Amendment. Yet the document in question annotates a Militia as something to be feared, warned against, and fought. The LRP wishes for a retraction of this document, and a public apology made, and if this is not met, the LRP has promised heavy activism against their Division and will pursue further actions to correct what they feel is a devastating misrepresentation of what the Freedom Movement is about.

For More information about the LRP, please visit: www.libertyrestorationproject.org

For More information about the Campaign For Liberty, please visit: www.campaignforliberty.com

Attached you will find scans of the Document in question.

####

----------


## acptulsa

> To think C4L is spending quite a bit of money for the event in St. Louis. Members will spend even more on food, and hotels. The state is going to have a nice chunk of tax monies from this event.
> 
> Now MO back stabs us this way. If C4L does not speak out about this I will be extremely disappointed again.


If I were going I'd cancel my hotel in favor of one in Illinois.  Now, the Illinois side of the river is not considered the best part of town, and Illinois most certainly does _not_ have lower gas taxes than Missouri.  Nonetheless, that is where I would stay and where I would buy all the food and gas I used.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Press Release
> 
> For Immediate Release
> 
> Liberty Restoration Project responds to Document released by Mo. Division of Drug and Crime Control/ Missouri Information Analysis Center
> 
> Kansas City, MO. March 12th 2009:
> 
>      The Liberty Restoration Project (LRP) obtained a notice today that was released by the Missouri Division of Drug and Crime Control, P.O. Box 568 in Jefferson City today. This document is written in a form the declares that Militia Members most commonly associate with 3rd Party political groups indicating Congressman Ron Paul, former Congressman Bob Barr, and Pastor Chuck Baldwin to be springboards of Anti-government militia groups in Missouri. The Liberty Restoration Project views this document as defamation to a growing Freedom Movement that is focused on peace, freedom, civil liberty, and constitutional obedience. The Liberty Restoration Project in Kansas City is a focus group based off of many of the principles laid forth by 3rd Party leaders, including an audit and/or repeal of the Federal Reserve Banks of the United States, and many other topics that are addressed by these leaders.            
> ...


Excellent.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> If I were going I'd cancel my hotel in favor of one in Illinois.  Now, the Illinois side of the river is not considered the best part of town, and Illinois most certainly does _not_ have lower gas taxes than Missouri.  Nonetheless, that is where I would stay and where I would buy all the food and gas I used.


Great thought. Also when canceling any arrangements be sure to tell the companies exactly why!

----------


## donnay

> Press Release
> 
> For Immediate Release
> 
> Liberty Restoration Project responds to Document released by Mo. Division of Drug and Crime Control/ Missouri Information Analysis Center
> 
> Kansas City, MO. March 12th 2009:
> 
>      The Liberty Restoration Project (LRP) obtained a notice today that was released by the Missouri Division of Drug and Crime Control, P.O. Box 568 in Jefferson City today. This document is written in a form the declares that Militia Members most commonly associate with 3rd Party political groups indicating Congressman Ron Paul, former Congressman Bob Barr, and Pastor Chuck Baldwin to be springboards of Anti-government militia groups in Missouri. The Liberty Restoration Project views this document as defamation to a growing Freedom Movement that is focused on peace, freedom, civil liberty, and constitutional obedience. The Liberty Restoration Project in Kansas City is a focus group based off of many of the principles laid forth by 3rd Party leaders, including an audit and/or repeal of the Federal Reserve Banks of the United States, and many other topics that are addressed by these leaders.            
> ...



Perfect!  Put them on notice!  Lawsuits should follow.

----------


## txrep

> Perfect!  Put them on notice!  Lawsuits should follow.


How many times have I heard you guys screaming for lawsuits...and how many have actually...ahh nevermind... 

This is a fake document. Look at it. Seriously. Half of it is copied from Wikipedia! Google the text! Aren't you guys smarter than this? No organization would EVER allow a document with this many obvious typos, pictures off center, etc out even internally! I work for a very small company, but EVERYTHING is triple-checked for spelling, grammar, etc. This is someone really playing a joke on you guys!

Also, in this press release...do you (the person who sent it) work for Campaign for Liberty? Are you authorized to speak on their behalf? If not, I wouldn't put their name or website on your press release. Once the hoax is revealed you are going to make the Campaign for Liberty look really stupid. Be professional and don't jump the gun. Things like this (your over reacting, jumping to conclusions, etc.) is reason no one takes you or Ron Paul seriously.

"The document in question is still pending a confirmation of validity, yet when representatives of the LRP have called the attached phone numbers, they have been met with confirming messages stating that they are aware of the document, and that they would have someone return a phone call. " (from your press release).

OK-- so the police are aware of it. They never confirmed it was a document created by them. This is you guys jumping to conclusions! Be professional and get all of the facts first before you react on a public stage (again -- a reason why no takes you people seriously!)...They are probably not returning your calls because they are investigating the source. They are also probably busy, did you ever think of that? Maybe they have real crimes to deal with, and returning phone calls to a bunch of Ron Paul nuts within 30 minutes is not high on their list. Also, its obviously a fake document, and any police officer or PI could take a once over of it and see that.

----------


## acptulsa

> Things like this (your over reacting, jumping to conclusions, etc.) is reason no one takes you or Ron Paul seriously.


Tell it to Lt. Hotz and Capt. Hull of the state of Missouri.  After all, you just called them both liars.  Who are we to defend them?

----------


## newbitech

I went ahead and put all the images into a PDF to make spreading the memo easier.  Have at it.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2037687

----------


## torchbearer

> Wow, I can't believe the reactions.
> 
> 
> I'm not a Republican. I am an American. Right now I am an angry American.
> 
> 
> I remember.
> I watched the "investigation". They killed the patsy and blamed the militia.
> 
> ...


We do our training at Fort Beauregard, national guard training grounds. 
We use airsoft equipment because it looks and feels like the real thing and is cheaper than the laser stuff the army uses.

----------


## hotbrownsauce

Everyone who keeps saying this document is fake or real please elaborate on WHY. 

Such as txrep says half of it is copied from wikipedia.... well what half are you talking about? What grammer and spelling and etc. ? Show the support to your claims.

If you don't support your claims, then they are just frivolous. The same goes to people who called, one person said someone read part of the article back to them. What part of the article? What time did you call and who did you talk to?

----------


## CatherineBleish

Now hold on, I am a member of this state and I called the office and they said they knew of the document and directed me to other 

JUST GOT A PHOEN CALL BACK


"the report itself is a MAC document is real - the actual report itself is an actual report.  it is not putting people on a list it is a documentation of trends"

"we have had officers killed by members of militias, so it is a threat"

"we stand by the information in this report"
"goes out to law enforcement in MO and other states subscribed to the newsletters and bullitens we send out - there are centers like this in states all over the country"

"we stand by the information int he bulliten"

mo information analysis center
officer john hotz

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> This is a fake document. Look at it. Seriously. Half of it is copied from Wikipedia! Google the text! Aren't you guys smarter than this? No organization would EVER allow a document with this many obvious typos, pictures off center, etc out even internally! I work for a very small company, but EVERYTHING is triple-checked for spelling, grammar, etc. This is someone really playing a joke on you guys!


many people have talked to people AT the state capital who have personally verified the damn thing.

----------


## acptulsa

> If you don't support your claims, then they are just frivolous. The same goes to people who called, one person said someone read part of the article back to them. What part of the article? What time did you call and who did you talk to?


I called shortly before I posted.  I posted the name of the gentleman at the time.  As I said, he quoted back to me the section that mentioned the presidential candidates by name.  I even listed the phone number I dialed.

P.S.  And Ms. Bleish just mentioned his name again.  Does anyone actually read threads?

----------


## hotbrownsauce

Thank you jeezus, some clarification. 

Thank you once again CatherineBleish and UtahApocalypse.

There are 24 pages... it would be nice if a new post was made summing up what is happening. Reading through 24 pages of blabering is wasteful and annoying. Off to work, CYA!

----------


## newbitech

> Everyone who keeps saying this document is fake or real please elaborate on WHY. 
> 
> Such as txrep says half of it is copied from wikipedia.... well what half are you talking about? What grammer and spelling and etc. ? Show the support to your claims.
> 
> If you don't support your claims, then they are just frivolous. The same goes to people who called, one person said someone read part of the article back to them. What part of the article? What time did you call and who did you talk to?



Well I went to the website.  http://www.miacx.org/default.aspx/Me...up/Home-MO.htm

on the left for up coming training they have...

TRAINING "Complex Attacks" Training - 04-29-2009

which is a link to a MS Word Doc.

On page 6 of the leaked memo,  they are talking about the leadership of the militias being highly trained and forming NCO (non-commissioned officers club) which gives the groups the ability to pull off "complex attacks".  I have no doubt this memo leak is legit.

----------


## CatherineBleish

I am ready to take action - someone advise - what is best route - who do I contact - should I show up with camera and megaphone?  who should i contact?  lets get working I'm ready to moblize some folks, I just need a plan of action and I'll impliment - I can get folks to the state capital over night - just need an action plan.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> OK-- so the police are aware of it. They never confirmed it was a document created by them. This is you guys jumping to conclusions! Be professional and get all of the facts first before you react on a public stage (again -- a reason why no takes you people seriously!)...They are probably not returning your calls because they are investigating the source. They are also probably busy, did you ever think of that? Maybe they have real crimes to deal with, and returning phone calls to a bunch of Ron Paul nuts within 30 minutes is not high on their list. Also, its obviously a fake document, and any police officer or PI could take a once over of it and see that.


*Go read the whole thread. I am not a liar. I spoke with Captain Hull at length today. He confirmed that they did in fact distribute this pamphlet. He explained why. He did say he compiled things found on other documents. What more do you want?*

----------


## jsteilKS

I live in Kansas City, Missouri.  I display both the gadsden flag and a Ron Paul sticker on my car.  I have been pulled over once in the last month, but due to my own fault of not having my license plate on the front of my car.  I was given a warning and was told to go on my way.  I would say that this document it bogus, but I would also say that law enforcement especially the Missouri Highway Patrol are pulling people over for things I haven't seen in a long time.  My manager got pulled over three times for the same thing and was taken into custody and taken to jail till he paid the fine.

 They might be taking offense that many Ron Paul supporters will go lengths to tell them when they are breaking the law.  The other night a cop tailed me about 3 miles, crossed three lanes of traffic, changed lanes in an intersection, and then ran a red light to go to Quick Trip for a free drink.  I let him know he was in the wrong and he looked at me like I was a crazy 20 year old.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I am ready to take action - someone advise - what is best route - who do I contact - should I show up with camera and megaphone?  who should i contact?  lets get working I'm ready to moblize some folks, I just need a plan of action and I'll impliment - I can get folks to the state capital over night - just need an action plan.


Cthrine I am so glad that you are taking real initiative and action over this.

----------


## acptulsa

> I am ready to take action - someone advise - what is best route - who do I contact - should I show up with camera and megaphone?  who should i contact?  lets get working I'm ready to moblize some folks, I just need a plan of action and I'll impliment - I can get folks to the state capital over night - just need an action plan.


Well, just off the top of my head, I would love to see some of your elected officials trying to explain how profiling the supporters of certain candidates could possibly _not_ have a chilling effect on democracy.  You could also ask them how they would feel if their own supporters were 'profiled' in this way...

If you 'tube it, we'll sure digg it!

----------


## newbitech

> I am ready to take action - someone advise - what is best route - who do I contact - should I show up with camera and megaphone?  who should i contact?  lets get working I'm ready to moblize some folks, I just need a plan of action and I'll impliment - I can get folks to the state capital over night - just need an action plan.


Well this is getting circulated in other states as well.  So this isn't just an isolated state issue.  This kind of thing is going to require action from the persons being libeled.  

Also, I think it is important to use the information collected and dig in to find out what else is being discussed in underground LEO circles.

I think it would be a good idea to post in one of the huge LEO forms this document and ask every day cops to respond.

----------


## acptulsa

> Well this is getting circulated in other states as well.  So this isn't just an isolated state issue.  This kind of thing is going to require action from the persons being libeled.


And _that_ would require a class action lawsuit.  Unfortunately, it would also require proof that the libelous statements caused the plaintiff(s) real harm.

----------


## A. Havnes

Do any of the three people mentioned in this memo know yet?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I live in Kansas City, Missouri.  I display both the gasden flag and a Ron Paul sticker on my car.  I have been pulled over once in the last month, but due to my own fault of not having my license plate on the front of my car.  I was given a warning and was told to go on my way.  *I would say that this document it bogus,* but I would also say that law enforcement especially the Missouri Highway Patrol are pulling people over for things I haven't seen in a long time.  My manager got pulled over three times for the same thing and was taken into custody and taken to jail till he paid the fine.
> 
>  They might be taking offense that many Ron Paul supporters will go lengths to tell them when they are breaking the law.  The other night a cop tailed me about 3 miles, crossed three lanes of traffic, changed lanes in an intersection, and then ran a red light to go to Quick Trip for a free drink.  I let him know he was in the wrong and he looked at me like I was a crazy 20 year old.


It has been 99% proven by multiple parties to be a legit document. Do you think Officers Pull over that many cars for a simple plate violation? Or could it just be possible they had received this bulletin days before, and then saw your bumper stickers? Coincidence... You decide.

----------


## newbitech

> And _that_ would require a class action lawsuit.  Unfortunately, it would also require proof that the libelous statements caused the plaintiff(s) real harm.


and that's my point.  it may not be actionable even tho it is obviously damaging.  We can all sit around yelling and calling and emailing.  What I am going to do right now is post this doc over at a LEO board and see if I can get some cops "internet" record from other states possibly disclosing more info.  

I think what is important here is that this is evidence that the "authorities" are gearing up for something big to happen soon.  they are preparing for the revolution.  We need to use this information to find out what else they are expecting and how they plan to deal with it.  thats just my take.  We can't stop this kind of thing from happening.  Only be aware of it and treat it as a counter intelligence opportunity.

----------


## jsteilKS

But the difference is that Im a Paul supporter with stickers and my manager/friend is not.  I'm just saying if you don't give them a reason to pull you over then whats the point of the document?  They might see the stickers and say "oh crap we have a Congressman Paul supporter, he's going to challenge us on why hes being pulled over and might actually know the law".

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Do any of the three people mentioned in this memo know yet?


 they have been cced our press release and told to expect folks in jefferson city very soon.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> and that's my point.  it may not be actionable even tho it is obviously damaging.  We can all sit around yelling and calling and emailing.  What I am going to do right now is post this doc over at a LEO board and see if I can get some cops "internet" record from other states possibly disclosing more info.  
> 
> I think what is important here is that this is evidence that the "authorities" are gearing up for something big to happen soon.  they are preparing for the revolution.  We need to use this information to find out what else they are expecting and how they plan to deal with it.  thats just my take.  We can't stop this kind of thing from happening.  Only be aware of it and treat it as a counter intelligence opportunity.


Please keep us posted.

----------


## torchbearer

> But the difference is that Im a Paul supporter with stickers and my manager/friend is not.  I'm just saying if you don't give them a reason to pull you over then whats the point of the document?  They might see the stickers and say "oh crap we have a Congressman Paul supporter, he's going to challenge us on why hes being pulled over and might actually know the law".


They may be more likely to shot first and ask questions later if their leadership scares them enough about the potential of militia dangers from Paul supporters.

----------


## torchbearer

> they have been cced our press release and told to expect folks in jefferson city very soon.


I'd be there if it was feasible. This is very important.

----------


## ItsTime

Sorry I cant read the whole thread. Did this get confirmed?

----------


## CatherineBleish

I am scheduling a conference call to start immediately after my internet radio show at 8pm central.  If you want to help devise a plan of action with regards to this - please call in.   Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
 Participant Access Code: 999525#

Please post this on other sites where people are discussing so we can pool our brainpower.

peace love and liberty,
Catherine

----------


## torchbearer

> Sorry I cant read the whole thread. Did this get confirmed?


Yes- multiple times.
It's real.

----------


## ItsTime

> Yes- multiple times.
> It's real.


Thank you. I need to go eat Ill be back to catch up.

----------


## A. Havnes

> they have been cced our press release and told to expect folks in jefferson city very soon.


Be sure to let us know what transpires.

----------


## newbitech

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115613


well lets see if any cops want to take this one on in public.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I am scheduling a conference call to start immediately after my internet radio show at 8pm central.  If you want to help devise a plan of action with regards to this - please call in.   Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
>  Participant Access Code: 999525#
> 
> Please post this on other sites where people are discussing so we can pool our brainpower.
> 
> peace love and liberty,
> Catherine


I have classes tonight, please recap what is discussed later

----------


## ihsv

> http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115613
> 
> 
> well lets see if any cops want to take this one on in public.


Looks like you've got a bite:





> what kind of fishing expedition is this?
> 
> if we answer we've seen it, we confirm intelligence for you
> 
> weak
> 
> * and for the record, I can't even open the link you provided, so I didn't view the document *


"We confirm intelligence for you".  Incredible attitude.  Absolutely incredible.

----------


## torchbearer

> Looks like you've got a bite:
> 
> 
> "We confirm intelligence for you".  Incredible attitude.  Absolutely incredible.


too bad only LE can respond in that thread... someone should inform him that their 'intelligence' is blown.
Now its our intelligence on them.

----------


## Original_Intent

Well, people have been bellyaching that we haven't been activist enough since the election. It is good to see that there is still a core group that is both awake enough to catch this kind of thing and to take action to hold people responsible.

They still don't understand blowback. Two days ago we were posting threads with stupid polls, they did just the right action to bring us together and stop our internal bickering. Thanks, Big Brother!*

----------


## Truth Warrior

*Has anyone sent the memo to LRC?*

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Well, people have been bellyaching that we haven't been activist enough since the election. It is good to see that there is still a core group that is both awake enough to catch this kind of thing and to take action to hold people responsible.
> 
> They still don't understand blowback. Two days ago we were posting threads with stupid polls, they did just the right action to bring us together and stop our internal bickering. Thanks, Big Brother!*


Good Point... I have seen much more activity today on boards that i frequent.

----------


## pcosmar

> http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115613
> 
> 
> well lets see if any cops want to take this one on in public.


Wow,
just did a little reading, a quick scan of the site. Couple threads.
What a bunch of A**holes. Rude, obnoxious, intolerant. 
No wonder civil rights are ignored. There is nothing civil there.

----------


## JK/SEA

..

----------


## sluggo

The smartass comments and general disregard for a serious question are very telling.

----------


## torchbearer

> The smartass comments and general disregard for a serious question are very telling.


When you fail at life... you can always become a cop.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> When you fail at life... you can always become a cop.


my friend's friend applied and he was rejected
"Over qualified"
the moron decided to Ace the written test

they dont want smart people. they want people who can shoot & follow orders

----------


## torchbearer

> my friend's friend applied and he was rejected
> "Over qualified"
> the moron decided to Ace the written test
> 
> they dont want smart people. they want people who can shoot & follow orders


My degree is in sociology.. I had to take many criminology classes.
Obviously, you don't need college to enter law enforcement, but we did have a few people whose aim was to become law enforcement.
In class, they would admit that they wanted to become law enforcement so that could drive real fast and shoot guns. The rush of power is what they sought.
Now- generalizations are wrong. Yes, I know.
But... I know a lot of the people in Alexandria's PD, and most of them are losers.

They couldn't get a pay raise because the citizens voted down a tax hike to pay for it....
What did the APD turds do? They started writing everyone tickets for everything.
And with maliciousness behind it.
Good way to spread good will.
Ignorant $#@!s.

----------


## dannno

Amazing.


http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115087


It took them #27 posts to come up with a reasonable comment from an officer on open carry.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Why are they all saying they can't open the article?

----------


## torchbearer

> Why are they all saying they can't open the article?


They don't know how to click on a link.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> They don't know how to click on a link.


or maybe they fear malicious software

I read the 3rd comment its a stupid sarcastic post
but the 4th comment is even more chilling than the document in question
something you would read in the obama forum by berg bilder or Israel Over All

----------


## dannno

Wow!

Overall very positive thread over at the police forums!!

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114110

----------


## Dripping Rain

me now thinks all this hype by those organizations like the MIACX, ADL, and SPLC has something to do with Ron Paul's HR1207 Audit The Fed Bill
Someones trying to cover their ass from something. A pre-emptive strike or as the saying goes The best defence is a good offence

----------


## txrep

Look at the grammar folks. Governments are anal about making sure that official (internal and external documents) are edited several times over...this is a fake. No document would have this many errors:

1) Pictures are not in line (look at pages 2 and 3 for example)
2) No government source would use that Russian professors map in an official document
3) On the page that mentions Ron Paul, there are several very obvious errors that even a 5th grader would catch...
4) No "unclassified" document, as this one states, would have this many errors or read "LES"
5) Off centering of text over pictures

This looks just like fake documents created for those Nigerian 419 scams. As usual, you guys are all jumping the gun. At least wait for this organization to publicly respond!

----------


## torchbearer

> Look at the grammar folks. Governments are anal about making sure that official (internal and external documents) are edited several times over...this is a fake. No document would have this many errors:
> 
> 1) Pictures are not in line (look at pages 2 and 3 for example)
> 2) No government source would use that Russian professors map in an official document
> 3) On the page that mentions Ron Paul, there are several very obvious errors that even a 5th grader would catch...
> 4) No "unclassified" document, as this one states, would have this many errors or read "LES"
> 5) Off centering of text over pictures
> 
> This looks just like fake documents created for those Nigerian 419 scams. As usual, you guys are all jumping the gun. At least wait for this organization to publicly respond!



Did you read the thread?

----------


## txrep

> Did you read the thread?


Yes I did. Did anyone fax this document to them and say "is this the EXACT document you created?"

They very well may have created a document regarding militias, etc and someone who is trying to play with you guys had some fun with Photoshop.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Look at the grammar folks. Governments are anal about making sure that official (internal and external documents) are edited several times over...this is a fake. No document would have this many errors:
> 
> 1) Pictures are not in line (look at pages 2 and 3 for example)
> 2) No government source would use that Russian professors map in an official document
> 3) On the page that mentions Ron Paul, there are several very obvious errors that even a 5th grader would catch...
> 4) No "unclassified" document, as this one states, would have this many errors or read "LES"
> 5) Off centering of text over pictures
> 
> This looks just like fake documents created for those Nigerian 419 scams. As usual, you guys are all jumping the gun. At least wait for this organization to publicly respond!


Since you were already shown multiple persons who talked directly to a MO State Trooper that confirmed this you decided to try in another thread??

----------


## txrep

> I am scheduling a conference call to start immediately after my internet radio show at 8pm central.  If you want to help devise a plan of action with regards to this - please call in.   Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
>  Participant Access Code: 999525#
> 
> Please post this on other sites where people are discussing so we can pool our brainpower.
> 
> peace love and liberty,
> Catherine


Where can I listen to your radio show?

----------


## Cowlesy

> Yes I did. Did anyone fax this document to them and say "is this the EXACT document you created?"
> 
> They very well may have created a document regarding militias, etc and someone who is trying to play with you guys had some fun with Photoshop.


You did not read the thread if you think it is a fake document.

----------


## torchbearer

> Yes I did. Did anyone fax this document to them and say "is this the EXACT document you created?"
> 
> They very well may have created a document regarding militias, etc and someone who is trying to play with you guys had some fun with Photoshop.


Yeah, they were talking about another document that outlined Ron Paul supporters as potential threats.

----------


## txrep

> Since you were already shown multiple persons who talked directly to a MO State Trooper that confirmed this you decided to try in another thread??


Huh? This is the only thread in which I have discussed this to my knowledge. 

They may have asked "did you create a document concerning militias?" And they may have answered "yes"...I asked if anyone faxes this EXACT document to them??

----------


## A. Havnes

> Look at the grammar folks. Governments are anal about making sure that official (internal and external documents) are edited several times over...this is a fake. No document would have this many errors:
> 
> 1) Pictures are not in line (look at pages 2 and 3 for example)
> 2) No government source would use that Russian professors map in an official document
> 3) On the page that mentions Ron Paul, there are several very obvious errors that even a 5th grader would catch...
> 4) No "unclassified" document, as this one states, would have this many errors or read "LES"
> 5) Off centering of text over pictures
> 
> This looks just like fake documents created for those Nigerian 419 scams. As usual, you guys are all jumping the gun. At least wait for this organization to publicly respond!


Then call the given number; you'll get confirmation.

I think that earlier in this thread someone said that the officer was able to quote from the document.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Txrep is in my ignore bin now. Its is quite obvious he is A) Troll B) Insider trying to disinfo, when we already verified with multiple persons C) Too incompetent to really know whats going on.

----------


## torchbearer

> 1) Pictures are not in line (look at pages 2 and 3 for example)
> 2) No government source would use that Russian professors map in an official document
> 3) On the page that mentions Ron Paul, there are several very obvious errors that even a 5th grader would catch...
> 4) No "unclassified" document, as this one states, would have this many errors or read "LES"
> 5) Off centering of text over pictures



The person who made the document in question obviously has a 4th grade education and used MS Paint to put it together.
This is an accurate description of the people we are dealing with...

----------


## txrep

> Then call the given number; you'll get confirmation.


Why don't we have someone do it live on this conference call tonight so that everyone can hear?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Huh? This is the only thread in which I have discussed this to my knowledge. 
> 
> They may have asked "did you create a document concerning militias?" And they may have answered "yes"...I asked if anyone faxes this EXACT document to them??


As a matter of fact in this thread you claim to have read it was mentioned at least twice that the MO Officer read the document over the phone to someone verbatim.

----------


## torchbearer

> Why don't we have someone do it live on this conference call tonight so that everyone can hear?


No- you fax them the document, and YOU get the answer.
Don't ask others to do your work.
Don't take anyone else's word for it.
You do it yourself.

----------


## txrep

> Txrep is in my ignore bin now. Its is quite obvious he is A) Troll B) Insider trying to disinfo, when we already verified with multiple persons C) Too incompetent to really know whats going on.


Ahhh yes...anyone who disagrees is a "troll"...got it.

You must love the Constitution...but only when it works for you.

----------


## torchbearer

> Ahhh yes...anyone who disagrees is a "troll"...got it.
> 
> You must love the Constitution...but only when it works for you.


 OMG.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
A facepalm would be an understatement.

----------


## newbitech

i just updated my post with the image on page 8 of the memo.

edit,  I noticed on page 9 there is a email address for comments.  

I am going to sent my pdf file over to him and ask for verification.

----------


## txrep

> OMG.
> I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
> A facepalm would be an understatement.


Oh you guys...so much fun to play with. You give me hours and hours of entertainment at the office. 

Here is something you will never be able to call Ron Paul: President of the United States  

O B A M A

----------


## eOs

> So far all I've seen is:
>  - Yes, the number is indeed valid.  No surprise there.
>  - Somebody answered the phone.  No surprise there.
>  - The person who answered the phone was aware of this memo circulating.  No surprise there.
> 
> What I have NOT seen is:
>  - The organization confirms that this document came from them (so far all we have is "The woman who answered said she was aware that a memo was put out implicating Ron Paul and Bob Barr supporters"  .. but who put it out?).
>  - The organization stands behind the document 
> or
> ...


WOW! Someone with actual intelligence! And it only took 4 pages!

----------


## torchbearer

> Oh you guys...so much fun to play with. You give me hours and hours of entertainment at the office. 
> 
> Here is something you will never be able to call Ron Paul: President of the United States  
> 
> O B A M A


HAHAHAHAHA!
You say that like it is your achievement.
Sad.

----------


## txrep

> HAHAHAHAHA!
> You say that like it is your achievement.
> Sad.


It is the achievement of many!

Now go back to your hate group and make love to the Constitution or whatever you guys do.

----------


## The One

Could this have been done intentionally to incite us.......especially considering the upcoming CFL meeting in MO?

----------


## pcosmar

> Oh you guys...so much fun to play with. You give me hours and hours of entertainment at the office. 
> 
> Here is something you will never be able to call Ron Paul: President of the United States  
> 
> O B A M A


OK 
Confirmed Troll.



> I am a Hillary supporter.


Don't waste time with this inane crap.

----------


## torchbearer

> It is the achievement of many!
> 
> Now go back to your hate group and make love to the Constitution or whatever you guys do.


What exactly did you do?

----------


## LibertyEagle

Bye bye now, txrep.

----------


## pcosmar

> WOW! Someone with actual intelligence! And it only took 4 pages!


WOW 
Congratulations. 
. You only missed the numerous calls to Missouri that confirmed that it is TRUE.

Go pat yourself on the back.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Could this have been done intentionally to incite us.......especially considering the upcoming CFL meeting in MO?


I hope you are right

knowing that this was all nothing but a joke would at least help a lot more people sleep better at night

Untill someone actually goes to the Police Station and talks to someone in uniform who confirms this Ill still hold out hope that this is a hoax
though sadly i am 99% convinced its true

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Bye bye now, txrep.


thanks Mean Moderator
that moron really deserved it

----------


## The One

> I hope you are right
> 
> knowing that this was all nothing but a joke would at least help a lot more people sleep better at night
> 
> Untill someone actually goes to the Police Station and talks to someone in uniform who confirms this Ill still hold out hope that this is a hoax
> though sadly i am 99% convinced its true



No, I don't mean it's a hoax.  I mean it's legitimate and was done intentionally to provoke some sort of reaction......give them the excuse they're looking for, know what I mean?

----------


## tremendoustie

> It is the achievement of many!
> 
> Now go back to your hate group and make love to the Constitution or whatever you guys do.


Yes, we are foolish to love being free.

Congradulations on your new master, same as the one before. More debt, more spending, more war, less civil liberties, more executive power. But, hey, you "won" the political battle. The guy stepping on your face is wearing a blue shirt now, congrats. I hope you feel proud of that as we all eat sand, and the country goes down the tubes.

When the republocrats win, we all lose.

----------


## pcosmar

> No, I don't mean it's a hoax.  I mean it's legitimate and was done intentionally to provoke some sort of reaction......give them the excuse they're looking for, know what I mean?


Could be, that has been considered.
Mostly I think it is the general mind set of those with an authoritarian  mentality.
There are some that really hate the Constitution.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> No, I don't mean it's a hoax.  I mean it's legitimate and was done intentionally to provoke some sort of reaction......give them the excuse they're looking for, know what I mean?


good point you raise
you mean to polarize both Ron Paul supporters and the LE against each other
thats my sentiment

and like I said. I suspect this has more to do with Ron Paul's Audit the Fed Bill than a show conference for a group of people.

they may be preparing for something. those people are known to have trolls who infiltrate groups and do evil stuff so that they can go on a witch hunt after that group

google "William Weiss endorses Ron Paul" and youll get an even bettter picture

----------


## tremendoustie

> good point you raise
> you mean to polarize both Ron Paul supporters and the LE against each other
> thats my sentiment
> 
> and like I said. I suspect this has more to do with Ron Paul's Audit the Fed Bill than a show conference for a group of people.
> 
> they may be preparing for something. those people are known to have trolls who infiltrate groups and do evil stuff so that they can go on a witch hunt after that group
> 
> google "William Weiss endorses Ron Paul" and youll get an even bettter picture


I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just an overzelous, freedom hating person in LE, who gets a kick out of political persecution. Picture glen beck in the "Paul supporters are after me phase", but add a bigger authoritarian streak, a funny hat, and a fax machine.

----------


## The One

> I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just an overzelous, freedom hating person in LE, who gets a kick out of political persecution. Picture glen beck in the "Paul supporters are after me phase", but add a bigger authoritarian streak, a funny hat, and a fax machine.



You're probably right, but I just find the timing and location of this to be one hell of a coincidence.

----------


## dannno

> You're probably right, but I just find the timing and location of this to be one hell of a coincidence.


+1

----------


## Dripping Rain

> I don't think it's a conspiracy. Just an overzelous, freedom hating person in LE, who gets a kick out of political persecution. Picture glen beck in the "Paul supporters are after me phase", but add a bigger authoritarian streak, a funny hat, and a fax machine.


Ill repeat what the One said
timing and location seems too coincidental
but not only that. did you read whats in that document. it seems way more deeper than just an "overzealous freedom hating person" who has 4th grade education

What about the involvement of the ADL & the SPLC?

that also a coincidence?

your kiddding me right?

----------


## newbitech

Mr. Middleton,

My name is John Martin and I am a precinct committeeman in Hillsborough County, FL for the Republican Party of Florida.  There are many citizens in my precinct who have become aware of the possibility of political profiling occurring on a state and national level based on an apparently legitimate LE memo being circulated on the internet titled MIAC Strategic Report 02/20/09 The Modern Militia Movement.  I have enclosed a PDF file of the scanned images.  On page 7 of the memo, the following text appears.

_    Political Paraphernalia: Militia members most commonly associate with 3rd party political groups.  It is not uncommon for militia members to dispaly Constitutional Party, Campaign for Liberty, or Libertarian material.  These members are usually supporters of former Presidential Candidate: Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr._
Mr. Middleton, Ron Paul is a sitting Republican Congressman of whom many Republicans in my precinct voted for last November.  The Campaign for Liberty is in fact a political lobbying organization that is educating citizens of ALL political persuasions about the Constitutional role of government.

I understand that we live in escalated times of threat where Law Enforcement faces a much higher risk of being targeted by extremist and radical elements of our society and around the world.  I fully support the principles outlined in this memo in regards to educating Law Enforcement Officers and keeping our brave men and women safe with the most updated knowledge and information.  I believe that everyone who has supported Ron Paul and his Campaign for Liberty will agree that our movement is peaceful and that no one in our organizations are interested in a violent confrontation with our police forces.

Several phone calls have been made to your offices from around the country as it is believed that this memo or similar memo's are spreading all over the country.  My concern I hope is an obvious one and twofold. 

First, we do not accept violence as a solution and anyone claiming to be a member of one of our political activist groups who is found to be planning violence will be reported to the authorities immediately.  Likewise, I would like to know what evidence there is to suggest members of anti-government organized militias are associated with peaceful political activism.

Secondly, political activism is an American tradition. During such critical times as these, it is important that the voice of the people be heard, regardless of political ideals.  Political activist should work closely with law enforcement to ensure that violent domestic terrorist do not have a platform from which to launch these "Complex attacks" that the memo talks about.  At the same time, we should take great care to protect those innocent activist from being needlessly singled out or from having their rights of free speech infringed upon.

My question sir:

Is the memo, specifically page 7 and the quote I mentioned above a legitimate enough concern to single out an entire group of people?  If so, what evidence would you be willing to supply that would confirm that Ron Paul supporters and the Campaign for Liberty pose an elevated security threat to our police force?  Finally, have the men and organizations named in the memo been notified that their groups are under closer scrutiny?

Thank you for your time sir and I do look forward to your response.

Respectfully Yours,

John Martin - Concerned Citizen in FL.

----------


## jake

this is just incredible. I hope people outside of the CFL/liberty movement can see how dangerous this disgusting memo is.

----------


## torchbearer

> this is just incredible. I hope people outside of the CFL/liberty movement can see how dangerous this disgusting memo is.


If TXRep is any indicator, the majority is laughing at us not realizing what this will eventually mean to any opposition to the government.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> this is just incredible. I hope people outside of the CFL/liberty movement can see how dangerous this disgusting memo is.


same feelings but this is even scarier

from a law enforcement forum one of the members here posted the question there




> If it's what I'm thinking, these thiings come up now-'n-again & IMO are generally geared to inform LEOs of REAL "fringe" candidates, some of which are really out there.
> Keep in mind these are only warnings & are suggestions as to who is & isn't an extremist. My guess is you're having visions of Libiterians as being labeled "extremists" when the fact is, groups like neo-Nazis, Communists, religious fundementalists are the ones to pay attention to. What does that mean? Quite honestly, in contacting these individuals , who, AS A GROUP, demonstrated anti-government behavior, *it's in the LEOs best interest to to be at a higher state of awareness than when dealing with, say a pi***ed off Democrat or Republican.*
> *It's a LEOs Right & obligation to display more scrutiny when dealing with these individuals*.........


another officer calmly says




> To the OP. What you reference is a non-classified document published by the Missouri Highway Patrol. You can read it as well as I can. *If you feel threatened, I respectfully submit*, that's your problem.


link
http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115613

----------


## torchbearer

This kind of crap leads me to believe that there will be no peaceful revolution.

----------


## sluggo

> This kind of crap leads me to believe that there will be no peaceful revolution.


Learn to laugh at them. Seriously.

----------


## torchbearer

> Learn to laugh at them. Seriously.


Hard to laugh when they are working you over in the back room of a club for doing nothing but having a ron paul bumper sticker.

----------


## The One

> Hard to laugh when they are working you over in the back room of a club for doing nothing but having a ron paul bumper sticker.


You beat me to it.

----------


## paulitics

This is a good thing that this information is getting out now. It's a bad thing that this is legit.
I'm pretty pissed, but I'm not surprised this is going on.  Read the whole thing, not just the part about Ron Paul, Bob Barr supproters.

Pay particular attention to how they try and insinuate that we are racists.   If you are aware of the global elite and believe in national sovereignty, you must somehow be a racist.    The ironic thing, is that what it does is stereotype a profile us as a bunch of angry white male extremists.  Look at the pictures they use, and pay particular attention to the wording.   It is in itself very biased, and is inspiring hatred against us with those who have the authority to use force.

----------


## sluggo

Getting agitated and froggy about it will inevitably play into their hands, justifying their laughable "profile" of RP supporters/constitutionalists as being dangerous wackos.

Be aware, yes. Be concerned, yes. But don't let this bait you into a fight you can't win. 

Just saying.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Getting agitated and froggy about it will inevitably play into their hands, justifying their laughable "profile" of RP supporters/constitutionalists as being dangerous wackos.
> 
> Be aware, yes. Be concerned, yes. But don't let this bait you into a fight you can't win. 
> 
> Just saying.


+1
dont worry. the people here are way smarter than that. they know its a trap to polarize RP supporters and LEOs and pit them against each other

----------


## Dripping Rain

Notice that the group that drafted this isnt the government
its a private group according to what i understand that takes talking points from ADL & SPLC and feeds it to LEO's
this is worst than the FED

----------


## Sandra

> So far all I've seen is:
>  - Yes, the number is indeed valid.  No surprise there.
>  - Somebody answered the phone.  No surprise there.
>  - The person who answered the phone was aware of this memo circulating.  No surprise there.
> 
> What I have NOT seen is:
>  - The organization confirms that this document came from them (so far all we have is "The woman who answered said she was aware that a memo was put out implicating Ron Paul and Bob Barr supporters"  .. but who put it out?).
>  - The organization stands behind the document 
> or
> ...



+1!

----------


## Sandra

Beware of new members with sudden interest, forum shifters, just sayin'.

----------


## Mini-Me

This is very disturbing, and frankly, I don't even know how to best address it.  This particular memo/training document is *really* devious and sinister, and I think the people behind it were quite a bit more clever than mere idiots with a 4th grade education, spelling issues notwithstanding.  The memo brings up a whole bunch of serious issues that many Ron Paul supporters really *are* concerned about - such as civil unrest, the NAU, the Federal Reserve, RFID, universal citizen service (involuntary servitude), the NWO, FEMA camps, etc. - and then attributes these concerns to "dangerous militia groups" (rather than grass roots activist groups), tying us in directly by linking us to these supposed milita groups.  At the same time, those issues are described with undertones implying they're not actually a threat, giving the impression that the "right-wing militia groups" concerned about them are just plain crazy.  ...and it goes without saying that the memo paints all real militia groups in a poor light too, which is hardly fair.

On top of that, check out the *"You are the Enemy"* section:  This memo is taking advantage of widespread mistrust of police and anger at the police brutality epidemic*, painting mistrustful attitudes as a reason for them to be afraid of us!  That's a really frightening way to twist the reality of the situation:  A growing number of people (including many of us) are beginning to view cops warily due to the way they (as a whole) have been treating everyone else...*and somehow, that supposedly makes us a threat to their safety?!?*  If these memos become standard issue, even the honest cops are liable to be more on-edge and trigger-happy around people with RP or CFL bumper stickers (let alone something like the Gadsden Flag)...and who knows what kind of abuses the bully cops might find new excuses for.

*Unfortunately, the memo is chock full of dangerous half-truths, and these half-truths may be very convincing to the average person (and definitely to the average police officer).*  I do think acptulsa is correct when he says we need to bring this into the court of public opinion, and the Niemöller quote is very poignant here...but the problem is, because of the devious half-truth nature of the memo, it might be harder than many of us here realize to make sure public opinion falls on the right side.   I'm not even sure where to start when it comes to helping Average Joe understand how frightening this really is.  I mean, most people will probably understand the point that singling out supporters of certain politicians (e.g. Ron Paul) is anathema to a democratic republic, but they may make an "exception" if they take the contents of the memo at face value.  After all, many Ron Paul supporters really are concerned by every single one of the issues brought up in the memo, and every single one of us is probably concerned about at least some of them...plus, it would be easy to find out-of-context quotes on these very forums demonstrating an "anti-cop" attitude (including this very post).

*In other words, if this really is a calculated move in an agenda against us (rather than just a misunderstanding), it will be easy for authoritarians to leverage the numerous half-truths involved to make the entirety of the memo look valid and acceptable in the eyes of Average Joe...and I see no easy way to counter this.*  Any PR experts here?

*As well as the growing epidemic of falsified reports and perjury by cops with an invincibility complex, combined with the endless plague of "cops protecting cops"

EDIT:  Ah, here, another shooting!

----------


## donnay

> Getting agitated and froggy about it will inevitably play into their hands, justifying their laughable "profile" of RP supporters/constitutionalists as being dangerous wackos.
> 
> Be aware, yes. Be concerned, yes. But don't let this bait you into a fight you can't win. 
> 
> Just saying.



I don't think I am understanding you.  So, let me see if I have this right; your advice is to play dead and act like this is not something to be concerned about?

Are you one of those people who thinks you cannot fight city hall?

----------


## pcosmar

In response to a lame post by someone that had not read the multiple *Confirmations*.




> +1!


And then this.



> Beware of new members with sudden interest, forum shifters, just sayin'.


Yup, trolls have been outed and banned.

----------


## Sandra

> In response to a lame post by someone that had not read the multiple *Confirmations*.
> 
> 
> 
> And then this.
> 
> 
> Yup, trolls have been outed and banned.



The crap you post amazes me. Trolls are still on this thread. Join merge, divert.

----------


## Sandra

> I don't think I am understanding you.  So, let me see if I have this right; your advice is to play dead and act like this is not something to be concerned about?
> 
> Are you one of those people who thinks you cannot fight city hall?


Why did you take it THAT way?

----------


## pcosmar

> I don't think I am understanding you.  So, let me see if I have this right; your advice is to play dead and act like this is not something to be concerned about?
> 
> Are you one of those people who thinks you cannot fight city hall?


I would say no. But don't go off half cocked.
This may be an attempt to provoke a response so that they can respond with force.
Don't fall into that trap. 

Be aware and be careful, This has gone viral, lets see if the media picks it up.

----------


## Mini-Me

> same feelings but this is even scarier
> 
> from a law enforcement forum one of the members here posted the question there
> 
> 
> 
> another officer calmly says
> 
> 
> ...


In response to the second quote:



> To the OP. What you reference is a non-classified document published by the Missouri Highway Patrol. You can read it as well as I can. If you feel threatened, I respectfully submit, that's your problem.


I hope I'm just taking it the wrong way, because I'm really not liking his attitude.  It's like he's some bully saying he has no issue treating/mistreating you with prejudice...and if you feel threatened, that's your problem, not his.   Excuse me, but what would it take to make respecting our rights your problem, Mr. Officer?   It's pretty telling that he doesn't seem to give a damn about you or your rights...*despite the fact that the sole purpose of his job is supposed to be to protect and serve you and your rights.*

----------


## pcosmar

> The crap you post amazes me. Trolls are still on this thread. Join merge, divert.


So what was the "+1 " to the lame misleading post for then?

Troll hunters are still here too.

----------


## pcosmar

> In response to the second quote:
> 
> I hope I'm just taking it the wrong way, because I'm really not liking his attitude.  It's like he's some bully saying he has no issue treating/mistreating you with prejudice...and if you feel threatened, that's your problem, not his.   Excuse me, but what would it take to make respecting our rights your problem, Mr. Officer?   It's pretty telling that he doesn't seem to give a damn about you or your rights...despite the fact that the sole purpose of his job is to *protect and serve* you and your rights.


I don't think you misread anything.

I looked around that sit more a minute. I came away with a bad feeling.

----------


## Sandra

> So what was the "+1 " to the lame misleading post for then?
> 
> Troll hunters are still here too.


You're attempting to frame all disagreement, even slight, as "trollish". I mean you are AGGRESSIVE with it.

----------


## Expatriate

Wow. That LEO forum really makes me sick. Apparently all the people replying in the "ask an officer" section are real cops, but they can't even communicate with common courtesy. All I saw there were a bunch of insults and snide remarks.

It's not like the majority of cops I've met are any different, but I was kinda hoping that they were only that rotten where I live. Guess not.

Look at this crap:

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...88&postcount=4



> I will confirm it for you.
> 
> This started in the Spring of 2007 when George Bush notified the leaders of major metro departments at the annual Chiefs of Police Conference in Tacoma, Wa that he wanted to target all 3rd party candidates, supporters, and those making donations as enemies of the state.
> 
> Subsequently, the word was spread back at the state and local level to "turn up the heat". This came down in written memos dispersed throughout our department and every department in the US that any arrest, citation, or other enforcement action shall be taken authority the Chief and the President.
> 
> Initially, we were given a "hit List" of who these people were, home addresses and work locations. We began a systematic enforcement targeting of these people. As we gathered intelligence during the 2008 campaign, arrests/interviews and traffic stops, the web spread and we were able to target more people.
> 
> Thanks to the infusion of cash from the court cases, tickets and fines we were able to add Black Helicopters to our arsenal and began a more in depth tracking of these 3rd Party Candidates, aka domestic terrorists.
> ...


WTF?

----------


## aravoth

> It is the achievement of many!
> 
> Now go back to your hate group and make love to the Constitution or whatever you guys do.


Hey! Look! It's one of those steaming piles of douche I hear so much about!

Are you takin a break from giving your corporate bankster buddies a blowjob or something?

----------


## Dripping Rain

no need to go on the witch hunts after the "trolls"
they always reveal themselves. an old timer troll already got banned on this thread.

dont try to assume the functions of a mod when youre not a mod.

got school tommorow
good night yall

----------


## pcosmar

> You're attempting to frame all disagreement, even slight, as "trollish". I mean you are AGGRESSIVE with it.


Read the thread.

----------


## Sandra

> no need to go on the witch hunts after the "trolls"
> they always reveal themselves. an old timer troll already got banned on this thread.
> 
> dont try to assume the functions of a mod when youre not a mod.
> 
> got school tommorow
> good night yall


Agrandize much, newbie?

----------


## Sandra

> Read the thread.


I read it  V E R Y    CA R E F U L L Y.  That's why there are more posts expressing some doubt. I'm not the only one. But you do tend to jump on anything I post.... anywhere.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> Agrandize much, newbie?


your lack of manners is stifling
can you at least write in proper english

now Im not going to argue
have a bad night then

----------


## donnay

> Why did you take it THAT way?


Because of the highlighted:

Originally Posted by sluggo  View Post



> Getting agitated and froggy about it will inevitably play into their hands, justifying their laughable "profile" of RP supporters/constitutionalists as being dangerous wackos.
> 
> Be aware, yes. Be concerned, yes. *But don't let this bait you into a fight you can't win.*
> 
> Just saying.

----------


## Bruno

> Agrandize much, newbie?


giggle

----------


## pcosmar

> Hey! Look! It's one of those steaming piles of douche I hear so much about!
> 
> Are you takin a break from giving your corporate bankster buddies a blowjob or something?





> Bye bye now, txrep.





> *txrep*  
> Banned


it is gone.

----------


## Sandra

> your lack of manners is stifling
> can you at least write in proper english
> 
> now Im not going to argue
> have a bad night then



OOo. Sweetie, Yiou're brand new. You jumped into this forum and in a couple of days are being disrespectful of long long time posters. I think every one here got your "long time poster was banned" foolishness. What long time member are you talking about?

----------


## Paulitical Correctness

Upon reading the first thread posted about this (it was either this morning or last night) I initially called BS because of the source (Alex Jones) - could someone summarize the past 18 pages for me (and anyone else that hasn't been able to follow the developments of this).  So...this is confirmed as being legit now?

----------


## Sandra

> Upon reading the first thread posted about this (it was either this morning or last night) I initially called BS because of the source (Alex Jones) - could someone summarize the past 18 pages for me (and anyone else that hasn't been able to follow the developments of this).  So...this is confirmed as being legit now?


How this was supposedly confirmed is questionable. We really don't know where it even came from.

----------


## LibertyEagle

C'mon everyone, we're all stressed.  Let's not attack each other.

----------


## pcosmar

> I read it  V E R Y    CA R E F U L L Y.  That's why there are more posts expressing some doubt. I'm not the only one. But you do tend to jump on anything I post.... anywhere.


Then you read the multiple *Confirmations*.
It is not fake.
it is not a joke.

It is serious. and it is pissing a lot of people off.
It is also waking up a lot of people that have refused to believe this crap.

----------


## torchbearer

> Upon reading the first thread posted about this (it was either this morning or last night) I initially called BS because of the source (Alex Jones) - could someone summarize the past 18 pages for me (and anyone else that hasn't been able to follow the developments of this).  So...this is confirmed as being legit now?


Yes, it has been confirmed from several phone calls.
It has been confirmed by people calling from daily paul also.
There is a conference call tonight regarding what actions to take sometime tonight.
The number and access code is buried in this thread.

----------


## pcosmar

> Upon reading the first thread posted about this (it was either this morning or last night) I initially called BS because of the source (Alex Jones) - could someone summarize the past 18 pages for me (and anyone else that hasn't been able to follow the developments of this).  So...this is confirmed as being legit now?


It has been confirmed by several people, They called Missouri and spoke with the supervisors.
It is real.

If you doubt it call them  yourself.

----------


## Sandra

> Then you read the multiple *Confirmations*.
> It is not fake.
> it is not a joke.
> 
> It is serious. and it is pissing a lot of people off.
> It is also waking up a lot of people that have refused to believe this crap.


Your confirmation is a phone number. Even scammers will have a real phone number to validate the scam. They will also have real people to answer the phone to further validate the scam.

----------


## sluggo

> I don't think I am understanding you.  So, let me see if I have this right; your advice is to play dead and act like this is not something to be concerned about?
> 
> Are you one of those people who thinks you cannot fight city hall?


No, you completely missed the point.

I think that the primary purpose of this document was to create some static before the CFL event. Who wrote it is inconsequential at this point, it's there and it is ruffling some feathers. And it should.

However, I don't think the best way to fight this is to become what they try to paint us as. I would rather marginalize THEIR position, which can be accomplished by being rational, focused, and reasoned. We didn't get in this mess overnight, and we won't fix it overnight. Can't fight city hall? _Become city hall.
_
If that makes me a troll, forum diverter, or whatever else, then so be it.

----------


## torchbearer

> Your confirmation is a phone number. Even scammers will have a real phone number to validate the scam. They will also have real people to answer the phone to further validate the scam.


NO really, the number has been called, the people in charge of the department responded to the questions.
It really is confirmed.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Sandra, apparently it *is* real.

----------


## torchbearer

> No, you completely missed the point.
> 
> I think that the primary purpose of this document was to create some static before the CFL event. Who wrote it is inconsequential at this point, it's there and it is ruffling some feathers. And it should.
> 
> However, I don't think the best way to fight this is to become what they try to paint us as. I would rather marginalize THEIR position, which can be accomplished by being rational, focused, and reasoned. We didn't get in this mess overnight, and we won't fix it overnight. Can't fight city hall? _Become city hall.
> _
> If that makes me a troll, forum diverter, or whatever else, than so be it.


Just to be clear, no one is talking violence.
We are talking PR strategy tonight.

----------


## Sandra

> NO really, the number has been called, the people in charge of the department responded to the questions.
> It really is confirmed.


Yes, I'm sure the phone was manned.

----------


## A. Havnes

Aww, txrep is gone.  Oh well.  Anybody have any more news regarding the C4L?

----------


## torchbearer

> Yes, I'm sure the phone was manned.


You didn't read the thread.
They called the police department number, not just the 800 number.
They talked to the dick in charge.
NO conspiracy to trick us... this is real.

----------


## Paulitical Correctness

Thanks ya'll.

----------


## sluggo

> Just to be clear, no one is talking violence.
> We are talking PR strategy tonight.


I understand that. 

I think mockery is a powerful tool against this kind of nonsense. That was sort of my point.

----------


## Bruno

> NO really, the number has been called, the people in charge of the department responded to the questions.
> It really is confirmed.


good enough for me.

----------


## donnay

> I would say no. But don't go off half cocked.
> This may be an attempt to provoke a response so that they can respond with force.
> Don't fall into that trap. 
> 
> Be aware and be careful, This has gone viral, lets see if the media picks it up.



I have been aware of these type antics from law enforcement pamphlets for a while.

Did the media pick up on this?





Or how about this one:





Not much press on these above training pamphlets either.  I am sure each state has their own pamphlet and the only reason we know about the above ones and the recent Missouri one is because there are good people with consciences that leaked it.

----------


## torchbearer

Here is the post where the police department was called directly: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpos...0&postcount=79

----------


## ItsTime

Time to swamp MO with pro liberty tv ads for the campaignforliberty! 

Where are our media experts and lets start a chip in!

----------


## fedup100

> Bye bye now, txrep.


Thank you.

----------


## torchbearer

> Time to swamp MO with pro liberty tv ads for the campaignforliberty! 
> 
> Where are our media experts and lets start a chip in!


aravoth was on earlier in this thread... maybe he will be inspired to create another masterpiece.

----------


## paulitics

We need to find out if this is going on in other states, and for how long.  It's sounds like this is a public/private operation working together with homeland security.  Why would it just be Missouri?   Our tax dollars are paying for this.

----------


## donnay

> How this was supposedly confirmed is questionable. We really don't know where it even came from.


Here you go call this number and ask for Captain Tim to confirm:  573-526-6115

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Yes, I'm sure the phone was manned.


Sandra:

I verified this with both someone in C4L AND Lew Rockwell.  *It's real.*

----------


## torchbearer

We wish it wasn't real... but it is.

----------


## donnay

> We need to find out if this is going on in other states, and for how long.  It's sounds like this is a public/private operation working together with homeland security.  Why would it just be Missouri?   Our tax dollars are paying for this.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...183388&page=37

----------


## pcosmar

To some of us it came as no surprise, to others it is shaking the foundations of their world.
Some will just go ,

LaLaLaLa,  I can't hear you.

----------


## pcosmar

> We need to find out if this is going on in other states, and for how long.  It's sounds like this is a public/private operation working together with homeland security.  Why would it just be Missouri?   Our tax dollars are paying for this.


I am sure that it is in other states. This is the only copy to have surfaced. It was never meant to be seen by the public.

----------


## donnay

> Upon reading the first thread posted about this (it was either this morning or last night) I initially called BS because of the source (Alex Jones) - could someone summarize the past 18 pages for me (and anyone else that hasn't been able to follow the developments of this).  So...this is confirmed as being legit now?



*Ahem* then I guess you owe Alex Jones an apology.

----------


## ItsTime

> Time to swamp MO with pro liberty tv ads for the campaignforliberty! 
> 
> Where are our media experts and lets start a chip in!


I like this on every page

----------


## The One

> *Ahem* then I guess you owe Alex Jones an apology.



Everytime I say your name in my head, I always hear it as if it's Forrest Gump saying the name of his sweetheart, Jenny.

----------


## donnay

> Everytime I say your name in my head, I always hear it as if it's Forrest Gump saying the name of his sweetheart, Jenny.





Then you must sound funny when you order a glass of Chardonnay.

----------


## Liberty Rebellion

> How this was supposedly confirmed is questionable. We really don't know where it even came from.


Read the thread. It's been confirmed MULTIPLE TIMES. I has even been confirmed by Representative Jim Guest of the MO House of Reps and he is meeting with DPS officials about this after the Spring recess.

----------


## ItsTime

> Read the thread. It's been confirmed MULTIPLE TIMES. I has even been confirmed by Representative Jim Guest of the MO House of Reps and he is meeting with DPS officials about this after the Spring recess.


You should read the thread, they have been told that MULTIPLE TIMES

----------


## Liberty Rebellion

> Yes, I'm sure the phone was manned.




I think they have your size

----------


## Liberty Rebellion

> You should read the thread, they have been told that MULTIPLE TIMES

----------


## specsaregood

> Here you go call this number and ask for Captain Tim to confirm:  573-526-6115


Has anybody suggested that maybe Captain Tim should be invited to swing on by the CFL Regional Conference in St. Louis and get a chance to meet these people that he thinks are such a threat?  
How about a 1 on 1 15minutes for him to talk to the good doctor?  

It is easier to fear that which we do not understand or people we do not know.

----------


## newbitech

LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you..  

http://newstribune.com/articles/2009...te05fusion.txt




> Homeland Security chief checks out Jefferson City fusion center
> Gov. Jay Nixon and Homeland Security Secy. Janet Napolitano tour the Missouri Information Analysis Center in Jefferson City. (Jeff Haldiman/News Tribune photo)
> Advertisement
> 
> By News Tribune staff and The AP
> Published: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:05 PM CDT
> 
> After visiting the local center on Wednesday, Napolitano spoke at the National Fusion Center Conference in Kansas City, where she reminded the nearly 1,000 local, state and federal law enforcers and emergency responders that they are the front line in the fight against terror.


LA LA LA LA LA LA  Waht huh>?  can't hear you still...

http://www.missourinet.com/gestalt/g...CB9EA22C609B8D



> Missouri News 
> Homeland Security Secretary advocates "all hazards" approach
> Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 5:02 PM
> By Brent Martin
> 
> United States Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has instituted an "all hazards" approach to public safety since joining the Obama Administration.
> 
> Homeland Security grew from the ashes of September 11, 2001 in response to the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. Yet, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano won't single out terrorism as the biggest threat to the security of the nation.
> 
> "There are always a number of threats to our security," Napolitano said during a news conference at the State Emergency Management Agency in Jefferson City. "They can be international, they can be terrorist, they can be domestic and domestically raised. So, it's hard to say what is the single largest."



LAL LALAL ALLLALLL LALALL LALL   Still can't hear you lallalal

http://www.missourinet.com/gestalt/g...0A7EF491FA91ED



> Missouri News 
> Homeland Security Secretary tours SEMA
> Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 1:57 PM
> By Brent Martin
> 
> Governor Nixon, Secy NapolitanoUnited States Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano toured the State Emergency Management Agency headquarters in Jefferson City, prior to leaving for Kansas City to address the 2009 National Fusion Center Conference.


LALALLALLLAAAA LLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2009/03/...l_fusion_c.php




> Copfest 2009! National Fusion Center Conference mobs downtown Marriott
> By Nadia Pflaum in News
> Wednesday, Mar. 11 2009 @ 2:37PM
> welcome.jpg
> Did you know that there's an office at 635 Woodland that collects reports from local police departments about suspicious activities in the metro area and analyzes them for terrorist threats? And that "suspicious activities" can include taking pictures of questionable aesthetic value, lurking around potential terrorist targets like power plants and oil refineries, or looking up subversive stuff on the 'net? Amateur photographers who like staging photo shoots in the West Bottoms, you might want to keep reading.
> 
> Thumbing through the schedule of events, a breakout session titled "Radicalization" caught my eye. The description of the session said it would help attendees "understand the importance of identifying and understanding the different subversive groups in your area."  The radicalization talk was going on at the same time as another session, "Engaging the Media in Homeland Security." That's just where they expect me to be, my authority-flouting brain mused, feeling very clever.


LAAAAAAAAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAAA NOOOOOOO!!!!

http://www.iir.com/registration/fusi...a/agendaFC.pdf




> PAGE 6
> 
> Nationwide Suspicious Activity Reporting (SAR) InitiativeFederal Roles in Providing Information to State
> and Local Law Enforcement
> 
> Page 55
> Nationwide Suspicious Activity Reporting (SAR) Initiative
> Overview
> Learn more about the Nationwide SAR Initiative and its efforts to allow for the sharing of terrorism-related
> ...


good night america

----------


## Truth Warrior

*The Martial-Law Mindset*

----------


## ItsTime

> Time to swamp MO with pro liberty tv ads for the campaignforliberty! 
> 
> Where are our media experts and lets start a chip in!


page 40

----------


## torchbearer

> page 40


I highly recommend changing the number of post per page.
I have this thread at 20 pages.
Read more... click less.

----------


## ItsTime

> I highly recommend changing the number of post per page.
> I have this thread at 20 pages.
> Read more... click less.


ha! I did not know I could do that. I dont mind giving RPF the page views. I always wondered why the posts per page were so low, besides the fact they want the page views, other forums I visit are like 50 a page.

----------


## pinkmandy

Sorry if this has already been posted...I've read up to page 30 or so and didn't see it. I see a lot of lingering doubt because people cannot be sure the number itself really connects to the office that put out this 'memo' or whatever the f*ck it is.

How about this? Several members said they talked to Capt Tim Hull

http://search.mo.gov/search?q=Tim+Hu...fault_frontend

That will show you that Capt Tim Hull works for the MO state highway patrol. They are the ones who received this 'memo'. 

As for how the Highway Patrol is connected to MIAC and DHS:
http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=U...icp=1&.intl=us




> Missouri Information Analysis
> Center (MIAC)
> Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC)
> provides a public safety partnership consisting
> of local, state and federal agencies, as well as the
> public sector and private entities that collect,
> evaluate, analyze, and disseminate information
> and intelligence to the agencies tasked with
> Homeland Security responsibilities in a timely,
> ...


Hope that helps clear the air. 

Either it's real or someone is going to jail for impersonating a police officer. Considering there were several calls and forum members talked to different people I'd say this is real.

----------


## Natalie

> ha! I did not know I could do that. I dont mind giving RPF the page views. I always wondered why the posts per page were so low, besides the fact they want the page views, other forums I visit are like 50 a page.


Default is 10.  I set mine at 40.

- Josh posting from nat's computer.

----------


## donnay

> Has anybody suggested that maybe Captain Tim should be invited to swing on by the CFL Regional Conference in St. Louis and get a chance to meet these people that he thinks are such a threat?  
> How about a 1 on 1 15minutes for him to talk to the good doctor?  
> 
> It is easier to fear that which we do not understand or people we do not know.


I hear what you are saying and in a perfect world that would be great.  However, Captain Tim Hull is not the mastermind behind this documentation.

"MIAC is part of the federal fusion effort now underway around the country. As of February 2009, there were 58 fusion centers around the country.  The Department has deployed 31 officers as of December 2008 and plans to have 70 professionals deployed by the end of 2009. The Department has provided more than $254 million from FY 2004-2007 to state and local governments to support the centers, explains the Department of Homeland Security on its website. Missouri is mentioned as a participant in this federal intelligence effort." 

http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/

If it wasn't so serious it would be funny--I could see Jeff Foxworthy saying; "You might be a terrorists if-- you make several references to the Constitution." Nevertheless, this is very serious and a lot of law enforcement around the country are being trained to think we are domestic terrorists because we love our country and we believe in the rule of law and we supported Dr. Paul.

We need to make a lot of noise about this, we need to write letters to our editors, write blogs and make people aware how we are being targeted.

I honestly think Dr. Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr's names were slandered, and they should threaten with lawsuits.

----------


## Mini-Me

> ha! I did not know I could do that. I dont mind giving RPF the page views. I always wondered why the posts per page were so low, besides the fact they want the page views, other forums I visit are like 50 a page.


Don't worry, I don't think RPF needs any more page views...after all, I've practically been DOS'ing the server with the number of times my ~240 tab Firefox session has locked up or crashed today.  (Sorry Josh and Bryan...)

----------


## james1844

Look, I hate to state the obvious, but this affects all of us.  

Has anyone considered putting together a class action defamation lawsuit?

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

> oh man...i hope i don't get put on another gov't list...


If you are not on any gov list by now you are not a good American.

----------


## Danke

> OOo. Sweetie, Yiou're brand new. You jumped into this forum and in a couple of days are being disrespectful of long long time posters. I think every one here got your "long time poster was banned" foolishness. What long time member are you talking about?


txrep

----------


## Sandra

> txrep


I don't think 190 posts in over a year is considered an old timer.

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

Those of you wondering about those "other documents", it was a pamphlet from almost 9 years ago. I have had the scans of them for that long, and have helped keep that little bit of evidence alive.

----------


## Danke

> I don't think 190 posts in over a year is considered an old timer.


I don't see anyone else banned in this thread.

----------


## nayjevin

did anyone ever figure out what's up with pages 3 and 5?  the images run off the printable page.

http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/

looks like this document was released before it was printed.  I thought a cop sent it in?

should I really be afraid about my bumpersticker?

----------


## aravoth

> did anyone ever figure out what's up with pages 3 and 5?  the images run off the printable page.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/
> 
> looks like this document was released before it was printed.  I thought a cop sent it in?
> 
> should I really be afraid about my bumpersticker?


no you should not be afraid. This whole thing is crap. No one here is a terrorist, no one here advocates for anything other than changing the political and economic landscape through the electorate. No one has threatened anyone. And anyone that was stupid enough to come here and incite taking up arms against the government has been banned or outright ignored through by it's members. If the police feel like being $#@!s, start filming everything they do. Buy mini cameras and mount them in your car, when you catch them doing stupid $#@!, youtube it. If they are labeling you as a pain in the ass, be a pain in the ass.

----------


## SLSteven

> should I really be afraid about my bumpersticker?


Absolutely not!

----------


## Knightskye

> well it looks like the number is real... anyone else call... i wont
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...earch&aq=f&oq=





> If you see any suspicious activity, contact your local sheriff’s department or call the Missouri Cattle Theft Task Force hotline at (number)


Oh, it's real, it's just for Cattle Theft Force.

Those cows are leery of Baldwin supporters, alright.

----------


## pcosmar

> Oh, it's real, it's just for Cattle Theft Force.
> 
> Those cows are leery of Baldwin supporters, alright.


Oh come on. Get real.
That was a Google search on the Phone No, It verifies that it is a real Phone No.
http://www.dps.mo.gov/homelandsecuri...Activities.htm



> 3.  Or the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) 
> 
>           o Call (866) 362-6422
>           o Submit Terrorism Tip http://www.miacx.com/html/MIACSubmitIntel.htm


Is it so hard for people to read?

----------


## pcosmar

> did anyone ever figure out what's up with pages 3 and 5?  the images run off the printable page.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/
> 
> looks like this document was released before it was printed.  I thought a cop sent it in?
> 
> should I really be afraid about my bumpersticker?


Not sure why a couple pics are out of line. Perhaps when they scanned it or posted it on the page.
It has been verified by several here though.




> should I really be afraid about my bumpersticker


Nope. be proud.
Mine remains as a big "don't blame me".

----------


## hotbrownsauce

I just wanted to let people know that I sent an e-mail to my State Rep. in Missouri a few minutes ago. I'll fill people in with updates as I hope you will me.

Thanks to everyone

----------


## CatherineBleish

Please send all facts, research, links, anything to help us figure out what is going on to info@libertyrestorationproject.org.  If you want to join a strategy team let me know.  We will take action monday at the capitol - we just need to make sure it is the correct action.  More info the better, the more help the better!!!!!

----------


## axiomata

I would like to share this with some people, but I'd prefer not to link to an Alex Jones article as they would discount it simply as a result of the source.

Is there any mainstream media coverage of these memos, or at the least a level-headed blog post about it?

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

As I said in another thread about this topic. This is a dark day for our country but there could be a bright silver lining to this for us. I have not seen any topic get this type of response around here in a long, long time. This could be just the thing to get the revolution back on the same page and fighting like hell once again. It is starting to look more and more like this is the real deal so let's get ready to fight people. Put our petty differences aside, leave the negativity at the door and prepare for war. These treasonous bastards are out to not only destroy our country but they are out to destroy us. 

The campaign taught us that we are a VERY powerful force when we are united and fighting for the same cause. So if this is what it takes to bring us back together than I rejoice that it has happened. The war is back on folks, now let's fight like hell!

----------


## hotbrownsauce

Yes, clarify "Fight". I am sure you mean a philosophical, political fight, non illegal, right?

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> Yes, clarify "Fight". I am sure you mean a philosophical, political fight, non illegal, right?


I am talking about the same type of fighting we did during the campaign! It was exciting, fun and we got a hell of a lot accomplished. This movement is showing signs of growth and people are not laughing so much anymore. Now is the time to let people know that we have not gone away!

----------


## hotbrownsauce

> I am talking about the same type of fighting we did during the campaign! It was exciting, fun and we got a hell of a lot accomplished. This movement is showing signs of growth and people are not laughing so much anymore. Now is the time to let people know that we have not gone away!


Yeah, this really struck a cord with me today A.) I live in MO. B.) No one is going to smash the reputation of the C4L and Paul.

This is the most anger I have had towards bad policies or what ever you want to call it. And it is right before the C4L Regional Conference. I feel this threatens our peaceful organization. Yes, I am angry. Very angry. (Recall the Movie "Network"? I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!)

----------


## CatherineBleish

www.libertyrestorationproject.org

see most recent blog for a list of FACTS from today while I've tried to figure this out.




> I would like to share this with some people, but I'd prefer not to link to an Alex Jones article as they would discount it simply as a result of the source.
> 
> Is there any mainstream media coverage of these memos, or at the least a level-headed blog post about it?


[edit - link fixed - rph]

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

Ron Paul is doing a live interview in about an hour with a radio station in Delaware. You can listen live at www.wzbhrocks.com . The DJ's have told me that they will accept call in questions for Dr. Paul so this would be a great chance to ask him about this issue! The number is 1-800-234-9350.

----------


## Gaius1981

It's no secret that a lot of the people in the Ron Paul movement, and in the Libertarian Party, are anarchists who advocate armed revolution. So, it seems entirely reasonable to me that police officers are warned about them in an internal memo.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> It's no secret that a lot of the people in the Ron Paul movement, and in the Libertarian Party, are anarchists who advocate armed revolution. So, it seems entirely reasonable to me that police officers are warned about them in an internal memo.


I hear that a lot of drivers have vehicles with headlights that if turned on and off fast enough could vaguely resemble police lights. I suppose we better tell the police to monitor those people as well!

----------


## Gaius1981

> I hear that a lot of drivers have vehicles with headlights that if turned on and off fast enough could vaguely resemble police lights. I suppose we better tell the police to monitor those people as well!


Yes, that's a very good analogy.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> Yes, that's a very good analogy.


No more ridiculous than suggesting that the government has a right to monitor people for their political affiliation because some of them would describe themselves as anarchists, which the last time I checked was something they were free to be if they liked!

----------


## LibertyEagle

> It's no secret that a lot of the people in the Ron Paul movement, and in the Libertarian Party, are anarchists who advocate armed revolution. So, it seems entirely reasonable to me that police officers are warned about them in an internal memo.


Actually, I think you are confusing leftist-anarchists with as Murray Rothbard coined the term, "anarcho-capitalists".  They are very different.

----------


## paulitics

Go over to Hannity forums.  There are far more posts over there about armed revolution than I've ever seen over here.  Glenn Beck talks about it regularly, and  now other media pundits.  The guy we follow advocates peace, the guys they follow advocate war.  

I don't think any of the violent anarchists you see at protests would be followers of RP, most of them are on the left or paid provocatears.   I'm not sure what group of anarchists advocate armed revolution, but it isn't something RP or this movement stands for or represents.

----------


## Gaius1981

Doesn't most of the anarcho-capitalists here advocate armed revolution against the state? If not, I withdraw my statement.

----------


## speciallyblend

> Go over to Hannity forums.  There are far more posts over there about armed revolution than I've ever seen over here.  Glenn Beck talks about it regularly, and  now other media pundits.  The guy we follow advocates peace, the guys they follow advocate war.  
> 
> I don't think any of the violent anarchists you see at protests would be followers of RP, most of them are on the left or paid provocatears.   I'm not sure what group of anarchists advocate armed revolution, but it isn't something RP or this movement stands for or represents.


exactly

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Yes I did. Did anyone fax this document to them and say "is this the EXACT document you created?"
> 
> They very well may have created a document regarding militias, etc and someone who is trying to play with you guys had some fun with Photoshop.





> Huh? This is the only thread in which I have discussed this to my knowledge. 
> 
> They may have asked "did you create a document concerning militias?" And they may have answered "yes"...I asked if anyone faxes this EXACT document to them??





> Then call the given number; you'll get confirmation.
> 
> I think that earlier in this thread someone said that the officer was able to quote from the document.


Yes, Captain Hull knew exactly what I was asking about when I called. He referenced parts of the document himself. 




> Mr. Middleton,
> 
> My name is John Martin and I am a precinct committeeman in Hillsborough County, FL for the Republican Party of Florida.  There are many citizens in my precinct who have become aware of the possibility of political profiling occurring on a state and national level based on an apparently legitimate LE memo being circulated on the internet titled MIAC Strategic Report 02/20/09 The Modern Militia Movement.  I have enclosed a PDF file of the scanned images.  On page 7 of the memo, the following text appears.
> 
> _    Political Paraphernalia: Militia members most commonly associate with 3rd party political groups.  It is not uncommon for militia members to dispaly Constitutional Party, Campaign for Liberty, or Libertarian material.  These members are usually supporters of former Presidential Candidate: Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr._
> Mr. Middleton, Ron Paul is a sitting Republican Congressman of whom many Republicans in my precinct voted for last November.  The Campaign for Liberty is in fact a political lobbying organization that is educating citizens of ALL political persuasions about the Constitutional role of government.
> 
> I understand that we live in escalated times of threat where Law Enforcement faces a much higher risk of being targeted by extremist and radical elements of our society and around the world.  I fully support the principles outlined in this memo in regards to educating Law Enforcement Officers and keeping our brave men and women safe with the most updated knowledge and information.  I believe that everyone who has supported Ron Paul and his Campaign for Liberty will agree that our movement is peaceful and that no one in our organizations are interested in a violent confrontation with our police forces.
> 
> ...


LOVE this. Please follow up with the reply.




> Upon reading the first thread posted about this (it was either this morning or last night) I initially called BS because of the source (Alex Jones) - could someone summarize the past 18 pages for me (and anyone else that hasn't been able to follow the developments of this).  So...this is confirmed as being legit now?


It is definitely legit. If you can't trust me and acptulsa who can you trust? :P At any rate, yes it's legit. 




> How this was supposedly confirmed is questionable. We really don't know where it even came from.


Whatever, Sandra. Call them yourself. Put up or shut up.




> As I said in another thread about this topic. This is a dark day for our country but there could be a bright silver lining to this for us. I have not seen any topic get this type of response around here in a long, long time. This could be just the thing to get the revolution back on the same page and fighting like hell once again. It is starting to look more and more like this is the real deal so let's get ready to fight people. Put our petty differences aside, leave the negativity at the door and prepare for war. These treasonous bastards are out to not only destroy our country but they are out to destroy us. 
> 
> The campaign taught us that we are a VERY powerful force when we are united and fighting for the same cause. So if this is what it takes to bring us back together than I rejoice that it has happened. The war is back on folks, now let's fight like hell!


THIS type of talk is not helpful. I understand the spirit of what you say but the letter is damning.

----------


## paulitics

> Doesn't most of the anarcho-capitalists here advocate armed revolution against the state? If not, I withdraw my statement.


Maybe an anarcho-capitalist can answer bettter, but I have not read any post on this board suggesting this.  Most of the  anarchists advocating violence seem to come from the far left who really want socialism.  The vast majority want to return to the constitution, not replace the government with anything other than what worked in the past. Never once has Ron Paul advocated anything other than peaceful resistance.  And Bob Barr?  How ridiculous.

----------


## Roxi

> I don't think we have any militias in Louisiana.
> We play 'airsoft' games... would that be considered 'militia training'?



YES and if your playing online games you may be under "personality profile surveillance"

watch the second clip of Episode 4 (scroll down a bit) on http://www.alternative.nayjevin.com for a great story on what good ole d.h..s is up to

----------


## Sandra

> Yes, Captain Hull knew exactly what I was asking about when I called. He referenced parts of the document himself. 
> 
> LOVE this. Please follow up with the reply.
> 
> It is definitely legit. If you can't trust me and acptulsa who can you trust? :P At any rate, yes it's legit. 
> 
> Whatever, Sandra. Call them yourself. Put up or shut up.
> 
> THIS type of talk is not helpful. I understand the spirit of what you say but the letter is damning.


  Instead of jumping onto this thing with a home grown conclusion, why don't we give it A FEW HOURS MORE to be investigated by those IN MISSOURI. They are physically there and will make eye contact with those reportedly responsible. Knee jerk reactions on this thread are highly irresponsible until you get real FACTS! I'm so tired of all the people on here that get riled up over anything and it's the SAME DAMNED PEOPLE in EVERY THREAD!!!!!

Also, Google this memo. Almost every blog that C&P'd the memo references RPF as the source of validation! Now, what if atctulsa's account is wrong or even inaccurate? Investigation is a serious process! So far all we know is thet Hull "heard of the memo" but from where?  Did he support or help craft it? No answer so far. INVESTIGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## LibertyEagle

Sandra,

Again, I confirmed this with C4L and Lew Rockwell.

----------


## acptulsa

> How this was supposedly confirmed is questionable.


Thank you.  Thank you very much.

Is it questionable because LLS and I are the ones who bothered to call and, yes, ask the question, or is it questionable merely because you didn't bother?  And when have I lied to you before?




> Your confirmation is a phone number. Even scammers will have a real phone number to validate the scam. They will also have real people to answer the phone to further validate the scam.


Thank you again.  Scammers who set up real web sites that pop up on real search engines claiming to be real state agencies and bearing real official seals which list real phone numbers allegedly to real state agencies tend to get into real trouble real soon.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> Instead of jumping onto this thing with a home grown conclusion, why don't we give it A FEW HOURS MORE to be investigated by those IN MISSOURI. They are physically there and will make eye contact with those reportedly responsible. Knee jerk reactions on this thread are highly irresponsible until you get real FACTS! I'm so tired of all the people on here that get riled up over anything and it's the SAME DAMNED PEOPLE in EVERY THREAD!!!!!


I would usually agree with this 1,000% BUT it is very hard to not get riled up when there have been some fairly strong confirmations from some reliable sources and when a police force is being instructed to view us as terrorists!

----------


## sluggo

I wonder how many violent crimes and robberies occurred in Missouri in the time it took this group to put their "intelligence" report together?

----------


## acptulsa

> I wonder how many violent crimes and robberies occurred in Missouri in the time it took this group to put their "intelligence" report together?


Probably not many.  I could have put that amateurish pack of misconstruement and misconceptions together in about half an hour.

----------


## sluggo

> Probably not many.  I could have put that amateurish pack of misconstruement and misconceptions together in about half an hour.


If government workers were involved, I would say it took at least a week.

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> If government workers were involved, I would say it took at least a week.


Stimulus money probably paid for it

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Instead of jumping onto this thing with a home grown conclusion, why don't we give it A FEW HOURS MORE to be investigated by those IN MISSOURI. They are physically there and will make eye contact with those reportedly responsible. Knee jerk reactions on this thread are highly irresponsible until you get real FACTS! I'm so tired of all the people on here that get riled up over anything and it's the SAME DAMNED PEOPLE in EVERY THREAD!!!!!
> 
> Also, Google this memo. Almost every blog that C&P'd the memo references RPF as the source of validation! Now, what if atctulsa's account is wrong or even inaccurate? Investigation is a serious process! So far all we know is thet Hull "heard of the memo" but from where?  Did he support or help craft it? No answer so far. INVESTIGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm done with trying to convince you. If you prefer to keep your head in the sand that's your prerogative.

I called the number on the flyer. Erin answered the phone. She referred me to Capt. Tim Hull in the Public Information Department. She did not want to give me her name. Eventually she gave me her first name only.

When I called the number a receptionist answered. I asked for Capt. Hull. He answered. The call was monitored as was evidenced by a periodic long beep. I asked him about the memo. He knew exactly what I was talking about. He referred to specific portions as did I. He told me that the information was compiled from other sources and distributed by his MIAC as an educational resource for LEO. We discussed the implications of profiling which he repeatedly denied even though there is no other reason to put this information out. He told me that there have been incidents in the past where violent militia groups or members thereof have have run-ins with the MO police and in one case an officer was killed. 

Like I said, if you don't want to believe it don't but do not continue to try to discredit me because you haven't taken the time to read all the posts here. Go Google Tim Hull. He is legit. RPF is the source of the validation because that's the truth. There is a team in MO right now further investigating the issue. I'm really, really tired of your insinuations. Really tired.

----------


## paulitics

> Stimulus money probably paid for it



yep, and it sounds like may have been some private party profiting off it too.

----------


## constituent

> Is it possible that this is a well-crafted response to theobamaforum? I understand people have called, they've spoken to Linda, the links make it appear to be valid but could this be a hoax done by savvy Obama supporters? Please don't call me a moron or accuse me of having my head in the sand.


...or some really savvy ron paul supporters.




> *That's just one more good reason to avoid and to not join "movements".<IMHO>*


yeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwbetcha!

----------


## Mini-Me

> ...or some really savvy ron paul supporters.


I *seriously* doubt this...besides the fact that it's real (and probably has something to do with the SPLC), there are just wayyyy too many dangerous half-truths in there for RP supporters to have had anything to do with it.  As I mentioned in another post, there are enough dangerous half-truths that we might even lose the battle for public opinion...

----------


## LittleLightShining

> I *seriously* doubt this...besides the fact that it's real (and probably has something to do with the SPLC), there are just wayyyy too many dangerous half-truths in there for RP supporters to have had anything to do with it.  As I mentioned in another post, there are enough dangerous half-truths that we might even lose the battle for public opinion...


I am completely convinced that this is real. I didn't want to believe it as evidenced by the post constituent quoted above but there's no doubt in my mind anymore. Check Catherine Bleish's thread for updated info.

----------


## Conza88

> Actually, I think you are confusing leftist-anarchists with as Murray Rothbard coined the term, "anarcho-capitalists".  They are very different.







> Doesn't most of the anarcho-capitalists here advocate armed revolution against the state? If not, I withdraw my statement.


What part of the NON-AGGRESSION AXIOM and PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, do you not understand?

----------


## Mini-Me

> I am completely convinced that this is real. I didn't want to believe it as evidenced by the post constituent quoted above but there's no doubt in my mind anymore. Check Catherine Bleish's thread for updated info.


Agreed.  There's no way it was written by anyone sympathetic to our cause or anyone who wants to "speed up the boiling pot" to draw public attention (i.e. the frog's attention) to the growing police state, either...if that was the case, the contents of the memo would be much easier to refute entirely.  In reality, the memo was cleverly crafted with malicious intent in such a way that it will be difficult for any of us to clear the air.

----------


## JoshLowry

> I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm done with trying to convince you. If you prefer to keep your head in the sand that's your prerogative.
> 
> I called the number on the flyer. Erin answered the phone. She referred me to Capt. Tim Hull in the Public Information Department. She did not want to give me her name. Eventually she gave me her first name only.
> 
> When I called the number a receptionist answered. I asked for Capt. Hull. He answered. The call was monitored as was evidenced by a periodic long beep. I asked him about the memo. He knew exactly what I was talking about. He referred to specific portions as did I. He told me that the information was compiled from other sources and distributed by his MIAC as an educational resource for LEO. We discussed the implications of profiling which he repeatedly denied even though there is no other reason to put this information out. He told me that there have been incidents in the past where violent militia groups or members thereof have have run-ins with the MO police and in one case an officer was killed. 
> 
> Like I said, if you don't want to believe it don't but do not continue to try to discredit me because you haven't taken the time to read all the posts here. Go Google Tim Hull. He is legit. RPF is the source of the validation because that's the truth. There is a team in MO right now further investigating the issue. I'm really, really tired of your insinuations. Really tired.


Quoted so that someone who missed it the first five times will see it again.

----------


## pcosmar

> It's no secret that a lot of the people in the Ron Paul movement, and in the Libertarian Party, are anarchists who advocate armed revolution. So, it seems entirely reasonable to me that police officers are warned about them in an internal memo.


Woah there. 
I challenge you to prove that. Anyone that has advocated violence has been banned , *Quickly.*
I am neither an anarchist nor do I advocate violence. I am not a pacifist but I hate violence.
I have expressed concerns that the Government will initiate violence, They have in the past and prepare to presently. I am a realist.
Everyone on this board has been working on Peaceful means of restoring a Constitutional Government.
I challenge you to prove otherwise.
The only thing you will find is Self Defense. 
This is not and never has been a violent revolution.

----------


## torchbearer

The previous link didn't work for me, i googled it and fixed it: http://www.libertyrestorationproject.org/

for updates.

----------


## torchbearer

The Facts: Why we believe MO Liberty lovers are being targeted and why we need your help.
I have reason to believe homeland security is targeting liberty lovers in the state of Missouri - please read below for more information.  If I am wrong, someone is playing a very dirty trick on us. 

March 12, 2009

    * -1.This all started for me today here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183388
    * 0. (Missouri Information Analysis Center) MIAC is a legitimate organization, to start. http://www.miacx.org/(X(1)S(snfe1o45...ookieSupport=1
    * 1. Called the number on the flier for Missouri Information Analysis Center Phone number 573-751-5422 and was directed to their PR department.
    * 2. They transfered me to 573-526-6115, which was busy. I called back
    * 3 times before I got through to the secretary who took all of my information and said someone would call back. I told her if I heard nothing I would be required to pass this information along to the folks in Missouri who might be affected and to the media. She said she understood my concern. 3.I called back about 4 times and was met with a busy signal.
    * 4. Approximately 4pm Press Releases sent out and copied to the emails listed on the flier. The emails did not bounce back, indicating they are legitimate emails. brandon.middleton@mshp.dps.mo.gov, greg.hug@dps.dps.mo.gov
    * 5. About 3.5 hours after the first phone call I got a phone call from an officer Hotz of the state highway patrol who called me from 573-522-0000. He confirmed that they stand by everything in the memo, just not all the rumors on the internet. I had him repeat that he confirmed it about 5 times. He told me it was not sweeping everyone under that title, just noting TRENDS in militia members. He told me that the militia is a threat because officers have been killed by militia members.
    * 6. Held a conference call and decided to A. try to get a state legislature to help us in some way. B. contact the governor and have him respond to the fact he met with homeland security with homeland security 2 days ago, at the very “fusion center” this document was leaked from (see number 8 below). C. Attack this economically/financially by encouraging everyone attending the C4L conference to move their business to the IL side of the state line and contact the StL chamber of commerce, MO chamber of commerce, the hotel and the press declaring how they will not give their tourism dollars to such a state but STILL ATTEND THE CONFERENCE WITH THEIR PAUL/BALDWIN/BARR BUMPER STICKERS PROUDLY.
    * 7. Someone was trying to disrupt the conference call the entire time - proof someone is trying to stop us from talking about this. They played what sounded like pornography in the background, pushed buttons repeatedly, made static noises, and I just kept telling them I loved them and that I was trying to keep their children from becoming slaves and that this petty disruption would not detract us. My 7pm central radio show and my 8pm conference call are recorded on skype, so you can hear the detractors.  http://www.restoretherepublicradio.c...Hour__Show_Six for the show.
    * 8. The very agency, Missouri Information Analysis Center, a fusion center, was visited by Homeland Security and Governor Nixon on Wednesday March 11th. http://newstribune.com/articles/2009...te05fusion.txt
    * 9. I called the KCPD to see if they could verify the memo 816-234-5510; they laughed at me and told me to call the FBI.
    * 10. I called the FBI and she told me to go to my state legislature and hung up on me (after I asked many many questions) (816) 512-8200
    * 11.I have returned calls to all 3 of the Jefferson City numbers I have listed above and was only able to leave message on the first, 573-751-5422, voicemail for Mike.
    * 12. Huge conference held in KC talks about fusion centers and how local law enforcement is SPYING ON LOCAL CITIZENS: http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2009/03/...l_fusion_c.php
    * 13. KC fusion center convention: http://www.iir.com/registration/fusi...a/agendaFC.pdf

EDIT:
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION 1: CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY IS HAVING A REGIONAL CONFERENCE IN STL AT THE END OF THIS MONTH. MOSTLY RON PAUL, BOB BARR AND CHUCK BALDWIN SUPPORTERS WILL BE THERE.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION 2: THE KC END THE FED RALLY HAS 3 CONFIRMED NATIONAL SPEAKERS WHO ALL FIT UNDER CATEGORIES LISTED IN THIS SECTION.
MARCY BROOKS: FAMOUS JUROR MENTIONED IN THE DOCUMENTARY AMERICA FREEDOM TO FASCISM. AFTF IS MENTIONED IN THESE DOCUMENTS AS A MOVIE TO WATCH OUT FOR.
REP. JIM GUEST IS FIGHTING REAL ID - NATIONAL DRIVERS LICENCES WITH RFID TRACKING CHILPS. RFID OPPONENETS ARE LISTED AS POTENTIAL THREATS IN THE DOCUMENT.
DARRELL CASTLE RAN FOR VP OF THE CONSTITUTION PARTY AND IS IDENTIFIED ON THIS LIST AS A POTENTIAL THREAT THROUGH HIS PARTY AFFILIATION.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION 3: ALL THREE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES MENTIONED IN THE DOCUMENT ARE ANTI-FEDERAL RESERVE.
That is all the information I have at this time, but I have no reason to beleive this is a hoax. If you want to help with any of the strategy mentioned above in number 6, please email info@libertyrestorationproject.org.
I’m putting together teams for each goal right now and looking for other action items to take on.
peace, love and liberty, Catherine
Catherine Bleish
executive director
Liberty Restoration Project
816-868-8806
Catherine@libertyrestorationproject.org
www.libertyrestorationproject.org
Freedom reaches across party lines.

----------


## ihsv

> It's no secret that a lot of the people in the Ron Paul movement, and in the Libertarian Party, are anarchists who advocate armed revolution. So, it seems entirely reasonable to me that police officers are warned about them in an internal memo.


Even if that were the case, it is entirely *UNREASONABLE* for the police to profile and target individuals or groups based upon their political persuasion and/or their exercise of their first amendment rights.  

Even if this memo were targeting communists, I would be equally as concerned.   The police have no business whatsoever engaging in this kind of political profiling.

----------


## JVParkour

good work.

----------


## acptulsa

> Even if that were the case, it is entirely *UNREASONABLE* for the police to profile and target individuals or groups based upon their political persuasion and/or their exercise of their first amendment rights.  
> 
> Even if this memo were targeting communists, I would be equally as concerned.   The police have no business whatsoever engaging in this kind of political profiling.


I don't believe unreasonable is statement enough.  I think *UNCONSTITUTIONAL* sums it up better.

But I also like unfathomable, indefensible, un-American, incomprehensible, totalitarian, undemocratic, and/or infamous.

----------


## Roxi

> If I were going I'd cancel my hotel in favor of one in Illinois.  Now, the Illinois side of the river is not considered the best part of town, and Illinois most certainly does _not_ have lower gas taxes than Missouri.  Nonetheless, that is where I would stay and where I would buy all the food and gas I used.



have you been up there lately? i promise you do not want to stay in NSTL or sauget, or anywhere near that side of the river... the only hotels in this area get most of their business from the "rent by the hour" crowd if you know what I mean

----------


## tremendoustie

> Doesn't most of the anarcho-capitalists here advocate armed revolution against the state? If not, I withdraw my statement.


No, certainly not. Most advocate political activity and possibly civil disobedience.

----------


## acptulsa

> have you been up there lately? i promise you do not want to stay in NSTL or sauget, or anywhere near that side of the river... the only hotels in this area get most of their business from the "rent by the hour" crowd if you know what I mean


You're right.  I did post a warning along those lines, though I didn't state the case strongly enough.  Thanks for doing that.

Yeah, the last time I was in East St. Louis all the street signs had been stolen and more than a few of the manhole covers were gone too.  The only thing I can promise anyone is that a hotel on that side of the river will be slightly better than an eighteenth century barn in a Valley Forge winter...

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> It's no secret that a lot of the people in the Ron Paul movement, and in the Libertarian Party, are anarchists who advocate armed revolution. So, it seems entirely reasonable to me that police officers are warned about them in an internal memo.





> Doesn't most of the anarcho-capitalists here advocate armed revolution against the state? If not, I withdraw my statement.


Incredible that people can be this confused over the philosophy of "most of" the individuals who supported the 3 candidates in question. I look forward to your retraction, and think you would benefit from some reading lists we have around here... 




> ...
> Thank you again.  Scammers who set up real web sites that pop up on real search engines claiming to be real state agencies and bearing real official seals which list real phone numbers allegedly to real state agencies tend to get into real trouble real soon.


lol 

Another thing I think we need to look at is the growing power of NGO's, like the SPLC, the SPCA, etc...  It seems like a jack-boot mentality incubates in these groups... 

Calm and rational; wisdom wins the day

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

> Actually, I think you are confusing leftist-anarchists with as Murray Rothbard coined the term, "anarcho-capitalists".  They are very different.


I am a Jeffersonian Radical. 


Seeing that JRs got no mentioned in the pamphlet, I can safely sit back knowing I am on the Do Not Raid list and watch everyone else get hauled off with glee. 


That is, after all, what this is all about.  I can hear it now: 
"Oh THOSE people over there who believe the same things I do, they are the terrorists. I am not. All I want it peace peace peace and will do eat-meat-retreat for my entire life while the plutocrats enjoy the sound of my chains rattling."

----------


## Sandra

I''ll await confirmation via announcement from CFL. I don't know anyone on this forum well enough to trust their word especially in the light that we've been duped in the past.  It would be foolish to trust anyone you just know online, not to mention that one of those numbers returns results only related to the memo.

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

By the way, to those of you younguns out there, THIS is nothing new. You saw the scans of the pamphlets I posted from 9 years ago, right?

Well this is old hat for me, and for the rest of you old farts and geezers.

Shortly after 0911, the same crowd that plagued us during the 90s, trying to label us all terrorists, were tugging on the federal coattails and pointing at anything conservative or "right", trying to use the federal gov as their weapon. 

Here is a link for more background on this. The antics of the SPLC and ADL go way back. 

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Flag-W......-a081414253

Grigg has it down right with a revamp of the concept and further history. 
http://www.rightsourceonline.com/wel....cfm?rank=3744


However I have the original JBS article from 2001 saved in my evidence folder and can put the text in here if needed when I return to the Jeep cave. 


So there is nothing here that I didn't expect. Many of you might be too young to recall how they tried to blame OKC on "right wing radio". This is laughable considering what a disapating shill Rush Limbaugh is. 

What is going on here is this: each state wants DHS funding. To do that, they must pander to the feds. The feds are run by the same people who would consider a Christian with a gun a terrorist but never noticed how ELF and other eco nazis would openly pass around instructions on how to burn down dealerships and labs. 

When I say "nothing new" I mean it. Since BOTH SIDES of the political spectrum are all about using the power of the state as their weapon against people they don't like, the table is turning. This is why I spent 8 years losing friends as I tried to warn them that the powers they gleefully gave Bush will be used against them later. I got accused of being a leftist, unpatriotic, etc. I never had friends in the other camp. 

So in 2000, the "right" took the One Ring and put it on, thinking they could do good, but through them, as a metaphor for the power of the state, it did evil and lots of it. Now the "left" has the One Ring, and rather than destroy it, they put it on, and the process continues. No matter who the target is, or the reason, the results are the same: more evil (in reality it's more government which can be the same thing).

Paulians, Reganites (the few that are left), the true libertarians - all having a value for the original concept of liberty - are the most dangerous. They have the ability to take that ring to Mt Doom and destroy it. To us, to me, this election was like watching "Alien vs. Predator". 

I have to give the democrats some credit however. You know at least what you get with that crowd. It was Bush who tripled the size of the ATF and installed most of the police state apparatus we have today. The concept started way back, of course. But that's the difference. Obama is anti-liberty as much as Bush was, Clinton was, Bush 1, etc.

At least now I don't have to lose friends when I try to warn people.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Or, Sandra, you could check into it yourself, as so many of us have already done.

----------


## LibertyEagle

I remember, Doktor.

----------


## pcosmar

> I''ll await confirmation via announcement from CFL. I don't know anyone on this forum well enough to trust their word especially in the light that we've been duped in the past.  It would be foolish to trust anyone you just know online, not to mention that one of those numbers returns results only related to the memo.


*Re post from earlier.*




> Oh, it's real, it's just for Cattle Theft Force.
> 
> Those cows are leery of Baldwin supporters, alright.


Oh come on. Get real.
That was a Google search on the Phone No, It verifies that it is a real Phone No.
http://www.dps.mo.gov/homelandsecuri...Activities.htm



> 3.  Or the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) 
> 
>           o Call (866) 362-6422
>           o Submit Terrorism Tip http://www.miacx.com/html/MIACSubmitIntel.htm


Is it so hard for people to read?

*CALL YOURSELF*

----------


## hillertexas

> have you been up there lately? i promise you do not want to stay in NSTL or sauget, or anywhere near that side of the river... the only hotels in this area get most of their business from the "rent by the hour" crowd if you know what I mean


If instead of driving 5 minutes into IL, you drive 15, you will find Fairview Heights/Belleville.  There are lots of hotels there.  It is a safe area...not like East St. Louis or Sauget.

----------


## paulitics

> By the way, to those of you younguns out there, THIS is nothing new. You saw the scans of the pamphlets I posted from 9 years ago, right?
> 
> Well this is old hat for me, and for the rest of you old farts and geezers.
> 
> Shortly after 0911, the same crowd that plagued us during the 90s, trying to label us all terrorists, were tugging on the federal coattails and pointing at anything conservative or "right", trying to use the federal gov as their weapon. 
> 
> Here is a link for more background on this. The antics of the SPLC and ADL go way back. 
> 
> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Flag-W......-a081414253
> ...



Good post.  I agree with everything you say, especially the last bit.

----------


## zach

Almost 14,000 views!

wow.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

This sure has brought out the trolls:




> Instead of jumping onto this thing with a home grown conclusion, why don't we give it A FEW HOURS MORE to be investigated by those IN MISSOURI. They are physically there and will make eye contact with those reportedly responsible. Knee jerk reactions on this thread are highly irresponsible until you get real FACTS! I'm so tired of all the people on here that get riled up over anything and it's the SAME DAMNED PEOPLE in EVERY THREAD!!!!!
> 
> Also, Google this memo. Almost every blog that C&P'd the memo references RPF as the source of validation! Now, what if atctulsa's account is wrong or even inaccurate? Investigation is a serious process! So far all we know is thet Hull "heard of the memo" but from where?  Did he support or help craft it? No answer so far. INVESTIGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!





> I''ll await confirmation via announcement from CFL. I don't know anyone on this forum well enough to trust their word especially in the light that we've been duped in the past.  It would be foolish to trust anyone you just know online, not to mention that one of those numbers returns results only related to the memo.


*Call them yourself at this point!!!* seriously you now have completely shown yourself to be a) Troll B) Incompetent C) Working to try and disinfo this intel for some purpose. The only person I have for someone like you is the iggy bun. Good bye.

----------


## A. Havnes

> This sure has brought out the trolls:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Call them yourself at this point!!!* seriously you now have completely shown yourself to be a) Troll B) Incompetent C) Working to try and disinfo this intel for some purpose. The only person I have for someone like you is the iggy bun. Good bye.


They could just be in denial.

----------


## acptulsa

> They could just be in denial.


I'd kind of like to go there myself about now.  Got directions?  Any spare blue pills?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> They could just be in denial.


I place that under option B




> I'd kind of like to go there myself about now.  Got directions?  Any spare blue pills?


Sometimes I wish I still was a sheep :P

----------


## pcosmar

> I'd kind of like to go there myself about now.  Got directions?  Any spare blue pills?


Nope, you have to go full blown traitor to get plugged back into the Matrix after the Red Pill.

I suspect that some just don't want to face the implications that this is true.

Remember that Neo  puked when faced with reality.

----------


## ConvertedRepublican

Holy crap. 
Once again those in control want to silence the opposition with fear, or have the movement go underground so the government has an excuse to go after it with survellance.
"May you live in INTERESTING times"
old Chinese curse.

Who cursed me?

----------


## Sandra

Pcosmar, you have consistantly attacked all who have ANY doubt as to the bandwagon du jour you choose to jump on. Remember the Granny's got bug out land for sale? You defended them to the HILT!!!

But when a poster that investigated the deal told you it really seemed like a scam, and the Linda herself pretty much well blew her scam wide open, you backed off, backpedaled, then disappeared. But you had big big words then too. As a matter of fact, historically, you have backed every bad idea on the forum, and bashed all good.

----------


## constituent

> Go over to Hannity forums.  There are far more posts over there about armed revolution than I've ever seen over here.  Glenn Beck talks about it regularly, and  now other media pundits.


That's no accident.  Neither is the sudden marketing slam brought to us by their proud followers.  In fact, the two most assuredly go hand-in-hand.

----------


## pinkmandy

> Pcosmar, you have consistantly attacked all who have ANY doubt as to the bandwagon du jour you choose to jump on. Remember the Granny's got bug out land for sale? You defended them to the HILT!!!
> 
> But when a poster that investigated the deal told you it really seemed like a scam, and the Linda herself pretty much well blew her scam wide open, you backed off, backpedaled, then disappeared. But you had big big words then too. As a matter of fact, historically, you have backed every bad idea on the forum, and bashed all good.


*Look, if you don't trust the people here who have called then call yourself. What's so hard about that? Sandra, you are seriously looking like a troll. You're on this thread criticizing people/questioning their credibility while you yourself have done no legwork. Call the number yourself. Look it up yourself to ensure it's a 'real' number. Talk to somebody yourself. How hard is that?*

----------


## Sandra

> *Look, if you don't trust the people here who have called then call yourself. What's so hard about that? Sandra, you are seriously looking like a troll. You're on this thread criticizing people/questioning their credibility while you yourself have done no legwork. Call the number yourself. Look it up yourself to ensure it's a 'real' number. Talk to somebody yourself. How hard is that?*



I was talking directly  to pcosmar, not you. Nice of you to jump in.

----------


## pcosmar

> Pcosmar, you have consistantly attacked all who have ANY doubt as to the bandwagon du jour you choose to jump on. Remember the Granny's got bug out land for sale? You defended them to the HILT!!!
> 
> But when a poster that investigated the deal told you it really seemed like a scam, and the Linda herself pretty much well blew her scam wide open, you backed off, backpedaled, then disappeared. But you had big big words then too. As a matter of fact, historically, you have backed every bad idea on the forum, and bashed all good.


No I did not.
I defended the idea of having a place outside of cities. I also stated that I had no idea whether it was a good deal or not.
I did question your negativity  and venom toward them.

You jump in and put down any that question the Statis Quo.
Yes I have followed many of your posts and question your motives.

----------


## Sandra

> *Look, if you don't trust the people here who have called then call yourself. What's so hard about that? Sandra, you are seriously looking like a troll. You're on this thread criticizing people/questioning their credibility while you yourself have done no legwork. Call the number yourself. Look it up yourself to ensure it's a 'real' number. Talk to somebody yourself. How hard is that?*


Now this is for you. How can you NOT support a little MORE investigation?

----------


## Sandra

> No I did not.
> I defended the idea of having a place outside of cities. I also stated that I had no idea whether it was a good deal or not.
> I did question your negativity  and venom toward them.
> 
> You jump in and put down any that question the Statis Quo.
> Yes I have followed many of your posts and question your motives.


You're lying. But thank you for exposing yourself.

----------


## fedup100

> Actually, I think you are confusing leftist-anarchists with as Murray Rothbard coined the term, "anarcho-capitalists".  They are very different.


The powers that be do not care if there is a difference.  The use of the word is all they need to play word games and discredit, which is their only goal.  People that use that word on these forums have seeded it with the words a tyrannical government needs to vilify.

----------


## constituent

> The antics of the SPLC and ADL go way back.


yes indeedee.  however, i don't see their hand in this, necessarily.  they've been calling all "right-wing" groups "racists" and "terrists" for a long little while now.

what's curious is what may or may not have sparked the drafting of the document, right now no less.

----------


## pcosmar

> *Look, if you don't trust the people here who have called then call yourself. What's so hard about that? Sandra, you are seriously looking like a troll. You're on this thread criticizing people/questioning their credibility while you yourself have done no legwork. Call the number yourself. Look it up yourself to ensure it's a 'real' number. Talk to somebody yourself. How hard is that?*


Let her talk. Watch what she is about.
This is why NO ONE is on my ignore list.

----------


## pinkmandy

> I was talking directly  to pcosmar, not you. Nice of you to jump in.


I've been following the thread, Sandra. I don't have to post on every page to speak my opinion on this. Your posts have been critical- which is fine- but based on NOTHING. *You haven't called.* You are trolling this thread. With 14,000 views a lot of people are following it and because of that your actions should be called out. 

You are basically calling people liars, long time supporters and well respected members at that, but you yourself haven't verified a thing. It's no one's job to 'convince' you of anything, it's YOUR job to seek out the truth for yourself.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Now this is for you. How can you NOT support a little MORE investigation?


How can you say everyone else is crying wolf when you won't do an ounce of research for yourself? It's easy to just sit there and say it's not true because it's hearsay. But all you have to do is pick up the phone. 

That's my suggestion for all the doubting Thomas' and Thomasina's.

----------


## pinkmandy

> Now this is for you. How can you NOT support a little MORE investigation?


So now you're trying to detract? That's a classic technique. You're a little too late for this thread, though.

----------


## acptulsa

May I respectfully suggest that bickering among ourselves in a thread with, so far, nearly fourteen thousand views and links to it from all over the 'net is, basically, airing our dirty laundry in public?  Is that not, as Josh and Bryan phrased it, 'trollish behavior'?

We could take this little fest to another thread easily enough...

----------


## fedup100

> Pcosmar, you have consistantly attacked all who have ANY doubt as to the bandwagon du jour you choose to jump on. Remember the Granny's got bug out land for sale? You defended them to the HILT!!!
> 
> But when a poster that investigated the deal told you it really seemed like a scam, and the Linda herself pretty much well blew her scam wide open, you backed off, backpedaled, then disappeared. But you had big big words then too. As a matter of fact, historically, you have backed every bad idea on the forum, and bashed all good.


Sandra, I think your accusations here are way to broad and the attack seems to be coming FROM you.  You have successfully seeded this important thread with "reasonable doubt" in the face of solid proof.  Now, can you please go away.

----------


## pcosmar

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=32994
It is Brian's view that *There are no trolls here* 
That may well be, and it is a good rule of thumb.


However there are Troll Hunters here.

----------


## pinkmandy

> May I respectfully suggest that bickering among ourselves in a thread with, so far, nearly fourteen thousand views and links to it from all over the 'net is, basically, airing our dirty laundry in public?  Is that not, as Josh and Bryan phrased it, 'trollish behavior'?
> 
> We could take this little fest to another thread easily enough...


Very true. I have no more comments for her/him/whatever. Moving on.

----------


## Sandra

> Sandra, I think your accusations here are way to broad and the attack seems to be coming FROM you.  You have successful in seeded this important thread with "reasonable doubt" in the face of solid proof.  Now, can you please go away.



I cannot believe that SOME people on this forum are attacking the idea of a reasonable investigation. Holy Crap. We want all reason to apply to our benefit, but for nothing else. And we should expect those attackers to uphold the Constitution? No way.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I cannot believe that SOME people on this forum are attacking the idea of a reasonable investigation. Holy Crap. We want all reason to apply to our benefit, but for nothing else.


A reasonable investigation has been done!! Multiple persons have confirmed the document is real, was created by MIAC an organization is a 'think tank' for many agencies both local and federal, The document was released to law enforcement. All of this was confirmed by calling the phone number on the document. That number has been verified as belonging to MIAC via phone number search. Person spoke to the desk person, and also MO troopers who work with MIAC. At least one persona has received a phone call back from a number that verified back as being the MO State Patrol. 

If you cannot pull your head out of your goddamned ass and look at the FACTS then that is your problem not ours. If you don't trust the MULTIPLE sources of this information * pick up your own damn phone and call 573-751-6422*

----------


## hotbrownsauce

The young lady from LRP already confirmed this and is taking action the best way she feels. So Sandra, please, if your going to say everyone here who has said they confirmed the papers are liars or wrong then please pick out what they said and why we can't trust them.

----------


## JoshLowry

> I cannot believe that SOME people on this forum are attacking the idea of a reasonable investigation. Holy Crap. We want all reason to apply to our benefit, but for nothing else. And we should expect those attackers to uphold the Constitution? No way.


Call the number yourself!

You're calling for an investigation.  Some of us already had one.

Now you go do it or you have no leg to stand on.

----------


## fedup100

> I cannot believe that SOME people on this forum are attacking the idea of a reasonable investigation. Holy Crap. We want all reason to apply to our benefit, but for nothing else. And we should expect those attackers to uphold the Constitution? No way.


This is really big time for a troll of your stature, lots of views.  Keep it up, you have been found out.

----------


## acptulsa

> We want all reason to apply to our benefit, but for nothing else.


I believe you are painting too many people with too broad a brush.  I believe this statement to be patently false.  I don't know why we would expect others to treat us with respect if some of us are willing to 'profile' ourselves.  I don't know why anyone would expect us to treat them with respect if we can't even treat ourselves with respect.

----------


## pinkmandy

Here is stuff I pulled up yesterday in case anybody missed it. We have confirmed that Capt Hull, the same person respected members here talked with, is indeed with law enforcement. We also know the number listed that was called is indeed a MIAC number as it comes up for that agency when googled. 

So we have a REAL person who can be contacted at a REAL number. Anyone who doubts should feel free to call that number. 

Let's make it REALLY easy. http://www.modot.mo.gov/newsandinfo/...SI&newsId=9862




> MoDOT News Release
> 
> 
> For more information, contact William Whitfield at 573-751-5417, Laura Holloway at 573-751-5414 *or Capt. Tim Hull at 573-526-6115*
> May 11, 2007
> Click It or Ticket Program Buckles Down on Buckling Up
> 
> JEFFERSON CITY - Buckling up only takes seconds, but these seconds could save your life in a traffic crash.
> 
> That's why the Missouri Coalition for Roadway Safety is joining with state and local law enforcement during mid-May through Memorial Day for an aggressive national "Click It or Ticket" program to crack down on unbelted drivers and save lives. Missourians also will be reminded to buckle up through state and national advertisements.


^ There's that Capt Tim Hull again AND a phone number for him at a REAL MO govt website. Call him and ask. Simple enough. 




> Sorry if this has already been posted...I've read up to page 30 or so and didn't see it. I see a lot of lingering doubt because people cannot be sure the number itself really connects to the office that put out this 'memo' or whatever the f*ck it is.
> 
> How about this? Several members said they talked to Capt Tim Hull
> 
> http://search.mo.gov/search?q=Tim+Hu...fault_frontend
> 
> That will show you that Capt Tim Hull works for the MO state highway patrol. They are the ones who received this 'memo'. 
> 
> As for how the Highway Patrol is connected to MIAC and DHS:
> ...

----------


## constituent

c'mon guys... now "we" are just navel gazing.

applause for pinkmandy's post

----------


## Sandra

> Call the number yourself!
> 
> You're calling for an investigation.  Some of us already had one.
> 
> Now you go do it or you have no leg to stand on.


We NEED personal contacts not phone calls. Did anyone from MO talk to anyone eye to eye?
or was it just more phone calls?

We have a lot of active members in MO!

Also, with all the "lawsuit" talk around here, what are they going to court with? Hard evidence is needed.

----------


## ihsv

I'm more than satisfied and convinced of the authenticity of the document.  

Any additional "investigation" should be focused on who's behind the document, where did it come from, whose brain-child it is, who wrote it, why they wrote it, what their goal is, how best to respond, etc.  

Much of the above can be deduced fairly easily. 

Bickering over whether it's "real" or not is pointless.  Refocus your energy.  

Those who continue to doubt it can pick up a phone and verify it themselves.

----------


## pcosmar

> We NEED personal contacts not phone calls. Did anyone from MO talk to anyone eye to eye?
> or was it just more phone calls?
> 
> We have a lot of active members in MO!
> 
> Also, with all the "lawsuit" talk around here, what are they going to court with? Hard evidence is needed.


*
YES*
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183583



> UPDATE:
> 
> We have a request under the sunshine law being drafted by a very influential person in Missouri Republican politics.  I'll let them unveil their name on their own time. This is going to FEMA, Department of Public Safety, Nixon's office and Highway Patrol.  From what he says they will have three days to respond with all the information they have.  If they refuse, we have the press. 
> 
> There are two state reps talking about calling for an investigation - they can reveal their own names in due time.  I have also called two other state reps, know that at least one is being met with today, I have a request in to meet with the govenor, and I am trying to get as much information as possible.  
> 
> If you have any information you have uncovered, please email info@libertyrestorationproject.org 
> 
> I am working on getting someone in the Decmocratic Party to join my contact, but we saw how the republicans protected bush - the dems will possibly protect Nixon.

----------


## Sandra

> I'm more than satisfied and convinced of the authenticity of the document.  
> 
> Any additional "investigation" should be focused on who's behind the document, where did it come from, whose brain-child it is, who wrote it, why they wrote it, what their goal is, how best to respond, etc.  
> 
> Much of the above can be deduced fairly easily. 
> 
> Bickering over whether it's "real" or not is pointless.  Refocus your energy.  
> 
> Those who continue to doubt it can pick up a phone and verify it themselves.


Uh... yeah, that's what I said. Only we need to stop using more phone calls to investigate it further. Could someone in MO make contact with the PD?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

An interesting analysis...

http://www.sodahead.com/blog/48688/s...re-terrorists/

----------


## ihsv

> Uh... yeah, that's what I said. Only we need to stop using more phone calls to investigate it further. Could someone in MO make contact with the PD?


Are you looking to "verify" the document?

----------


## acptulsa

> We NEED personal contacts not phone calls. Did anyone from MO talk to anyone eye to eye?
> or was it just more phone calls?
> 
> We have a lot of active members in MO!
> 
> Also, with all the "lawsuit" talk around here, what are they going to court with? Hard evidence is needed.


Eye contact?  We're to throw the baby out with the bathwater over a lack of eye contact?  Did it ever occur to you that getting the information by dialing a phone number known and proven to belong to the state is more reliable than looking at a paper i.d. card?

An agency of a sovereign state has been accused of profiling the supporters of particular political candidates and it is all over the internet, yet this sovereign state has yet to issue one denial--or, at least, my search engine can't find evidence on the 'net of one denial being issued.  Now, how many explanations for _that_ are there?  Aside from the obvious 'they aren't denying it because they can't' explanation?

_If_ this goes to court I sincerely hope someone will let me know so I can come testify under oath.

----------


## pcosmar

> I'm more than satisfied and convinced of the authenticity of the document.  
> 
> Any additional "investigation" should be focused on who's behind the document, where did it come from, whose brain-child it is, who wrote it, why they wrote it, what their goal is, how best to respond, etc.  
> 
> Much of the above can be deduced fairly easily. 
> 
> Bickering over whether it's "real" or not is pointless.  Refocus your energy.  
> 
> Those who continue to doubt it can pick up a phone and verify it themselves.


There have been Pamphlets from others found before . I am sure that this is not just Missouri. though this is the one we have to look at. I would guess it is nationwide.
It fits with the known agenda.

As to who is behind it. Look to any and all anti-Liberty groups. There are several NGO's with the same rhetoric.

----------


## constituent

> being drafted by a very influential person in Missouri Republican politics. I'll let them unveil their name on their own time.





> There are two state reps talking about calling for an investigation - they can reveal their own names in due time.





> also called two other [edit: unnamed] state reps





> working on getting someone [edit: unnamed] in the Decmocratic Party



Not to play sides here, but I didn't notice a single named source.

Just sayin'

----------


## CatherineBleish

Why would I name my sources?  I'm trying to freaking stop my GOVERNMENT FROM CALLING ME A TERRORIST.


I wish people would stop questioning me and help me.

Here is what I am doing and the reserach I have done and where we are: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183583

  If you want to help info@libertyrestorationproject.org

I have the sunshine law request done, submitted to me by the person in the party who said they would, I have sent to an attorney and will send off ASAP.  Will post here when I am ready to rock and roll.

love you all.

----------


## phill4paul

If someone goes to court on this can we make one of the conditions of victory be that all law enforcement has to undergo Constitutional training programs.

  It would be great to win the court case but part of winning should be a deprogramming of all the us vs. them bull$#@! they have in their brains.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> An interesting analysis...
> 
> http://www.sodahead.com/blog/48688/s...re-terrorists/


Very good, thanks!

----------


## CatherineBleish

Mike Ferguson, of Bob Bar's campaign and a strong Missouri patriot just emailed me:  "I'll be on Gary Nolan's program this afternoon at 4:00 pm - those in central Missouri can listen in at 93.9 FM and everyone can tune in at http://theeagle939.com/"

PLEASE TUNE IN AND SUPPORT HIM.  This is going main stream.

----------


## pcosmar

> Why would I name my sources?  I'm trying to freaking stop my GOVERNMENT FROM CALLING ME A TERRORIST.
> 
> 
> I wish people would stop questioning me and help me.
> 
> Here is what I am doing and the reserach I have done and where we are: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183583
> 
>   If you want to help info@libertyrestorationproject.org
> 
> ...


Thankyou.
Was just going to post your site here. The "Search Fu"is weak in some.

I lived in Columbia several years ago. Lots of freedom minded folks there.

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Mike Ferguson, of Bob Bar's campaign and a strong Missouri patriot just emailed me:  "I'll be on Gary Nolan's program this afternoon at 4:00 pm - those in central Missouri can listen in at 93.9 FM and everyone can tune in at http://theeagle939.com/"
> 
> PLEASE TUNE IN AND SUPPORT HIM.  This is going main stream.


WILL BE ON AIR WITH ltd. Hotz. the police officer many of us spoke to - doubters tune in then HELP US TONIGHT ON THE CON CALL AT 8PM CENTRAL.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

I wish that C4L would make a statement on this. With the upcoming events in MO it is critical!!

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> WILL BE ON AIR WITH ltd. Hotz. the police officer many of us spoke to - doubters tune in then HELP US TONIGHT ON THE CON CALL AT 8PM CENTRAL.


On Nolan's show on on yours will be Lt. Hotz?

----------


## Sandra

> I wish that C4L would make a statement on this. With the upcoming events in MO it is critical!!



+1. Did they send anyone to interview Hull?

----------


## LittleLightShining

> I wish that C4L would make a statement on this. With the upcoming events in MO it is critical!!


I called about this yesterday. Then I called back and I was told they were working on a response.

----------


## CatherineBleish

C4L was on the con call last night - they're talking to their attorneys.  This stuff doens't happen in the blink of an eye - we have to figure out all the key players and what is going on.

----------


## Dripping Rain

> May I respectfully suggest that bickering among ourselves in a thread with, so far, nearly fourteen thousand views and links to it from all over the 'net is, basically, airing our dirty laundry in public?  Is that not, as Josh and Bryan phrased it, 'trollish behavior'?
> 
> We could take this little fest to another thread easily enough...


+1

----------


## Sandra

> C4L was on the con call last night - they're talking to their attorneys.  This stuff doens't happen in the blink of an eye - we have to figure out all the key players and what is going on.


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you! I got attacked for suggesting this.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I called about this yesterday. Then I called back and I was told they were working on a response.


Ok good, I just wanted to be sure they are aware and working on something. I missed the con call last night. Should be able to join tonight though!

----------


## Buffalo Bruce

It would be interesting to find out if the MIAC assigned someone to write it's police report from scratch or if content suggestions came from elsewhere. 

Since the majority of the US population opposes illegal immigration, the MIAC has defined over half of all Americans to have above normal terrorist tendencies. Since that is statistically impossible, the MIAC should consider rewriting it's police report.

My response; I sent a check to the Campaign for Liberty yesterday.

----------


## constituent

> Why would I name my sources?  I'm trying to freaking stop my GOVERNMENT FROM CALLING ME A TERRORIST.


Approach.




> I wish people would stop questioning me and help me.


I'm not questioning you, I'm pointing out to others on the forum that it is always good practice to examine the sources which become the foundation for a world of assumptions.  

In other words, to those trying to back you up, it is wiser for them to articulate a real response than to simply quote a post which names no sources when asked for "proof."  It is a matter of persuasion.

Again, I have no horse in this race, so I'm content to just watch this play out before forming an opinion.  

As you were.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> It would be interesting to find out if the MIAC assigned someone to write it's police report from scratch or if content suggestions came from elsewhere. 
> 
> Since the majority of the US population opposes illegal immigration, the MIAC has defined over half of all Americans to have above normal terrorist tendencies. Since that is statistically impossible, the MIAC should consider rewriting it's police report.
> 
> My response; I sent a check to the Campaign for Liberty yesterday.


Hull told me that much of the information came from other sources and was compiled for their handout.

True.

Yay!

----------


## sratiug

From Thomas Jefferson the Great, his first inaugural address... 




> If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. I know, indeed, that some honest men fear that a republican government can not be strong, that this Government is not strong enough; but would the honest patriot, in the full tide of successful experiment, abandon a government which has so far kept us free and firm on the theoretic and visionary fear that this Government, the world's best hope, may by possibility want energy to preserve itself? I trust not. I believe this, on the contrary, the strongest Government on earth. I believe it the only one where every man, at the call of the law, would fly to the standard of the law, and would meet invasions of the public order as his own personal concern. Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

----------


## Crowish

To the folks who verified the docs: thanks.

I was very skeptical when I first read them.

----------


## acptulsa

> To the folks who verified the docs: thanks.
> 
> I was very skeptical when I first read them.


Thanks for the thanks.  Seemed like the thing to do at the time.  I do appreciate everyone for finding the links, the sites and the phone numbers that helped me find the right number to dial.  Past that, it was merely a matter of asking politely.  I was pretty much burning to know for certain at that moment, so I can't say it was any sacrifice at all.

My kudos to all, with special thanks to LLS.  This could turn into a real boon for us, if we can keep playing our cards right.  I haven't found anyone but cops and the MIAC itself even trying to deny that this is no way to run a healthy republic.

----------


## Mini-Me

> By the way, to those of you younguns out there, THIS is nothing new. You saw the scans of the pamphlets I posted from 9 years ago, right?
> 
> Well this is old hat for me, and for the rest of you old farts and geezers.
> 
> Shortly after 0911, the same crowd that plagued us during the 90s, trying to label us all terrorists, were tugging on the federal coattails and pointing at anything conservative or "right", trying to use the federal gov as their weapon. 
> 
> Here is a link for more background on this. The antics of the SPLC and ADL go way back. 
> 
> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Flag-W......-a081414253
> ...


Good post!  I especially like the Lord of the Rings analogy...quite poignant.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> To the folks who verified the docs: thanks.
> 
> I was very skeptical when I first read them.





> Thanks for the thanks.  Seemed like the thing to do at the time.  I do appreciate everyone for finding the links, the sites and the phone numbers that helped me find the right number to dial.  Past that, it was merely a matter of asking politely.  I was pretty much burning to know for certain at that moment, so I can't say it was any sacrifice at all.
> 
> My kudos to all, with special thanks to LLS.  This could turn into a real boon for us, if we can keep playing our cards right.  I haven't found anyone but cops and the MIAC itself even trying to deny that this is no way to run a healthy republic.


My thanks go to Catherine for catching the ball and running with it.

----------


## CatherineBleish

No offense, man, but send the check to the people visibly doing something.  This is a scary situation.  I"ve been laid off, I'm a full time revolutionary and instead of phone banking for commission I"m talking to attorneys and states reps and the press and trying to GET MY GOVERNMEN TOFF MY BACK.

info@libertyrestorationproject.org  that is where the movers and shakers are! ( paypal)

----------


## Bruno

What was the last thread that had nearly 15,000 views in two days?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> My thanks go to Catherine for catching the ball and running with it.


send a donation of thank to help in the efforts: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183668

----------


## ItsTime

> What was the last thread that had nearly 15,000 views in two days?


MO put their hand in the hornets nest.

----------


## CatherineBleish

I love you guys, by the way.


Any new information, conversation documentation, etc.. please send to info@libertryrestorationproject.org and please join on con all tonight, same time same number.

----------


## pinkmandy

> send a donation of thank to help in the efforts: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183668


+ 1

----------


## tremendoustie

> C4L was on the con call last night - they're talking to their attorneys.  This stuff doens't happen in the blink of an eye - we have to figure out all the key players and what is going on.


Yay!! Sue their pants off. I want to see whoever started this antiamerican b.s. running around pantsless. Nay, I demand it.

----------


## InterestedParticipant

This is *psychic driving* of *fear*!

Pay no attention to this noise.

----------


## CatherineBleish

On phone with attorney - he is suggestion that we make sure we are all working together so we don't appear disorganized.  So people please don't run off and do thing son your own, lets work together on this in sync, lets be organized, please come on our con call tonight if you want to help.

visit www.libertyrestorationproject.org to help us strategize, join on con call tonight, same number same time, if the detractor comes back we know we are doing the right thing.

8PM
Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
 Participant Access Code: 999525#

----------


## sluggo

I tuned into http://theeagle939.com/ at 4.

I'm hearing Hannity and Dr. Phil give some lady really bad advice. When does Nolan come on?

----------


## CatherineBleish

He is also going on about how everythign we do must look PROFESSIONAL and clean, etc.... (just up to the minute phone update haha)

----------


## tremendoustie

> He is also going on about how everythign we do must look PROFESSIONAL and clean, etc.... (just up to the minute phone update haha)


What stuff? I'm confused. You mean as far as legal action?

----------


## CatherineBleish

THe attorney is going to be on the conference call tonight...

He listened in last night.  I am so glad people are helping.

Thank you!

----------


## torchbearer

> by the way, to those of you younguns out there, this is nothing new. You saw the scans of the pamphlets i posted from 9 years ago, right?
> 
> Well this is old hat for me, and for the rest of you old farts and geezers.
> 
> Shortly after 0911, the same crowd that plagued us during the 90s, trying to label us all terrorists, were tugging on the federal coattails and pointing at anything conservative or "right", trying to use the federal gov as their weapon. 
> 
> Here is a link for more background on this. The antics of the splc and adl go way back. 
> 
> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/flag-w......-a081414253
> ...


+1776

----------


## acptulsa

> What stuff? I'm confused. You mean as far as legal action?


As far as publicity materials.  Yeah, God forbid liberty lovers put out something as amateurish as what the MIAC dissemenates.

----------


## CatherineBleish

> What stuff? I'm confused. You mean as far as legal action?


Just any PR we do or any ads.

----------


## torchbearer

> Mike Ferguson, of Bob Bar's campaign and a strong Missouri patriot just emailed me:  "I'll be on Gary Nolan's program this afternoon at 4:00 pm - those in central Missouri can listen in at 93.9 FM and everyone can tune in at http://theeagle939.com/"
> 
> PLEASE TUNE IN AND SUPPORT HIM.  This is going main stream.


I backed gary nolan at the lp convention.

----------


## damania

I suggest we demand they put out a release within their organization specifically stating that Ron Paul supporters and the like are not terrorists.

----------


## tremendoustie

> As far as publicity materials.  Yeah, God forbid liberty lovers put out something as amateurish as what the MIAC dissemenates.


Lol, don't worry, I'm pretty sure you have to work for government to reach that level of incompetance . 

But, good point, we need to be professional.

----------


## CatherineBleish

> I tuned into http://theeagle939.com/ at 4.
> 
> I'm hearing Hannity and Dr. Phil give some lady really bad advice. When does Nolan come on?



4pm central

----------


## torchbearer

> I tuned into http://theeagle939.com/ at 4.
> 
> I'm hearing Hannity and Dr. Phil give some lady really bad advice. When does Nolan come on?


4central.

----------


## sluggo

d'oh.

----------


## JoshLowry

> On phone with attorney - he is suggestion that we make sure we are all working together so we don't appear disorganized.  So people please don't run off and do thing son your own, lets work together on this in sync, lets be organized, please come on our con call tonight if you want to help.
> 
> visit www.libertyrestorationproject.org to help us strategize, join on con call tonight, same number same time, if the detractor comes back we know we are doing the right thing.
> 
> 8PM
> Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
>  Participant Access Code: 999525#


If you get me the specs for the ad I can design a pretty decent one.

All I will need is text and the required format info.

Why would we not "strategize" here?

I won't be able to make the call, but myself and a number of others here can do pretty good design work.

----------


## tremendoustie

> If you get me the specs for the ad I can design a pretty decent one.
> 
> All I will need is text and the required format info.
> 
> Why would we not "strategize" here?
> 
> I won't be able to make the call, but myself and a number of others here can do pretty good design work.


Yep, we can work together. The NYTimes ad ended up pretty good.

----------


## speciallyblend

> THe attorney is going to be on the conference call tonight...
> 
> He listened in last night.  I am so glad people are helping.
> 
> Thank you!


you tell me want you want me to print to make a page for this on cr2012 and we can run your donation link as well.

Just email me thru rpf forums what you want for the page and info contained is up to you. Thank You for what your doing, just let me and laura know, peace kenny

----------


## UtahApocalypse

I can't get the radio stream, to work. Please give us updates.

----------


## Theocrat

> http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/
> http://digg.com/world_news/Secret_St...are_Terrorists
> 
> This will piss you off.  I just finished reading the article, and am about to read the scans of the report (I just printed them out)


It seems some people have forgotten what the Declaration of Independence says, specifically,




> *When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.*
> 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.  That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,  *That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.* Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. *But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.*  *Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.*
> 
> *He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.*
> 
> *He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.*
> 
> He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
> ...


Perhaps our police should go back and be reeducated in what our Declaration means and what it stands for.

----------


## MelissaCato

Like has this been mentioned on TV yet ? Anywhere ? I dunno, I have to work all the time and too lazy to review this thread.. Does anyone know ? If not, it has to be. It just has too. This is serious. What does Obama think about this ? 
*Where's da PEACE !!!*
*WHERE's DA Media ?*
Did someone contact Russia Today with this ? Never mind I do that now. 
Someone needs to go video Missouri State Police with a confirmation and YouTube it. We should send Russia Today .... LMAO
Putin is the Best !!!!!!!!! 
Does anyone have a PFD of this nonsense ? Email it to me please, I'm lazy. Thanks.

----------


## torchbearer

RussiaToday is a good idea.

----------


## torchbearer

They are talking about it now!

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://theeagle939.com/

on now

----------


## MelissaCato

.. did someone post this thread link on all State Police Forums ? If not, we must.
I would suggest also, we need to inform the National Guard. 
 Ron Paul is a good man, this is clearly a disrespect to our Nation.. 
And they know it.
The world needs to know it. This is the New World Order isn't it ? 
I refuse to be shameful for who I voted for in 2008.
Obama did say this Nation should have a say in the new order, I say we say it, and say it LOUD. 
Before we can't say it.

----------


## torchbearer

whoa, you gotta hear this $#@!!

----------


## Crowish

The police info officer is saying the document simply points out that militia members are frequently supporters of Ron Paul, Barr, Constitution Party, etc (as listed in the document).

----------


## torchbearer

THis officer is speaking in circles...
Doesn't know how it ended up on the internet...

----------


## torchbearer

> The police info officer is saying the document simply points out that militia members are frequently supporters of Ron Paul, Barr, Constitution Party, etc (as listed in the document).


"Militia and domestic terrorist was interchangeable in the 90s"

----------


## paulitics

> .. did someone post this thread link on all State Police Forums ? If not, we must.
> I would suggest also, we need to *inform the National Guard*. 
> .


good ideas.

----------


## speciallyblend

> The police info officer is saying the document simply points out that militia members are frequently supporters of Ron Paul, Barr, Constitution Party, etc (as listed in the document).


they are implying way more then that. and where is the proof. I guess they will need to show some justification in the next few days, which i doubt they have!!

No one here is overreacting

----------


## Sandra

Might he be the one that made the document and his coworkers didn't appreciate it?

----------


## pinkmandy

> The police info officer is saying the document simply points out that militia members are frequently supporters of Ron Paul, Barr, Constitution Party, etc (as listed in the document).


Is that all? I wonder why they forgot to include the names Bush and McCain since they also have militia people supporting them as well. What about Huckabee? Romney? Giuliani? WTF kind of answer is THAT?

----------


## Crowish

> they are implying way more then that. and where is the proof. I guess they will need to show some justification in the next few days, which i doubt they have!!
> 
> No one here is overreacting



I agree. The Officer is continuing to say the document is simply educational and doesn't have anything to do with enforcement.

----------


## LittleLightShining

Oh wow! Mike Ferguson kicked a$$ on the radio. I REALLY hope someone tubed it.

----------


## torchbearer

Lumping us in with neo-nazi's is not cool.

----------


## paulitics

> they are implying way more then that. and where is the proof. I guess they will need to show some justification in the next few days, which i doubt they have!!
> 
> No one here is overreacting


They also imply that we are all white supremicists.  No proof there either.   Just guilt by association.

----------


## pinkmandy

Anyone asking this officer why it's okay for him to swear an oath to defend the Constitution but it makes others terrorists?

----------


## CatherineBleish

Of course, I get in the shower when all this hits mainstream media hahah

----------


## torchbearer

Gary is making no sense.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Might he be the one that made the document and his coworkers didn't appreciate it?


I really hope you heard this. And then I think you need to retract what you were implying about me and acptulsa.

----------


## torchbearer

taking phone calls... i missed the number

----------


## speciallyblend

> whoa, you gotta hear this $#@!!


listening now ,WOW

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Might he be the one that made the document and his coworkers didn't appreciate it?


its just a guy on the phone, you can't see his eyes face to face??? what suddenly makes this phone call any better then the ones that supporters made repeatedly over the last 24 hours??

----------


## Crowish

800-529-5572 or 573-874-9390

----------


## LittleLightShining

> taking phone calls... I missed the number


station lines 800-529-5572 or 573-874-9390

----------


## Sandra

> I really hope you heard this. And then I think you need to retract what you were implying about me and acptulsa.


Only when I hear an OFFICIAL account from C4L. Until then you were still reactionary. 
Catherine Bleich did say to hold horses until their lawyer got all details.

----------


## Sandra

> its just a guy on the phone, you can't see his eyes face to face??? what suddenly makes this phone call any better then the ones that supporters made repeatedly over the last 24 hours??



None whatsoever. How are you going to prove anything in court? Gotta get audio & video. Other than that, he can deny it was him.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Only when I hear an OFFICIAL account from C4L. Until then you were still reactionary. 
> Catherine Bleich did say to hold horses until their lawyer got all details.


WTF??? How can you say C4L can verify the document? Yet the person who works at the agency that put out just verified it????????

You are one insane person

----------


## Sandra

Good to have ya back.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Only when I hear an OFFICIAL account from C4L. Until then you were still reactionary. 
> Catherine Bleich did say to hold horses until their lawyer got all details.


You're rich, you know that. The officer was on the fackin radio, saying exactly what we said he and Hull said. Pffft.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Only when I hear an OFFICIAL account from C4L. Until then you were still reactionary. 
> Catherine Bleich did say to hold horses until their lawyer got all details.


CfL is an educational organization that may not want to get "officially" involved...

----------


## MelissaCato

> Anyone asking this officer why it's okay for him to swear an oath to defend the Constitution but it makes others terrorists?


.. I don't think Police oath like the Military, the Military oaths to protect the Constitution, the Police oath to protect and serve mankind or something or other.
I think.

----------


## torchbearer

> .. I don't think Police oath like the Military, the Military oaths to protect the Constitution, the Police oath to protect and serve mankind or something or other.
> I think.


I believe they all take on oath to the constitution.

----------


## tremendoustie

> I believe they all take on oath to the constitution.


I wonder if they read it before they swear to uphold it ...

----------


## torchbearer

> I wonder if they read it before they swear to uphold it ...


no. its not required.

----------


## torchbearer

That is a good idea... we need to educate the law enforcement.
We need to put together an 'education' pamphlet for them.

----------


## CatherineBleish

I plan to be in Jefferson City on Monday and will be visiting Highway Patrol.  If we can get some "educational phamplets" together I will gladly bring them to the office and ask to disburse them to law enforcement. 

I will also have a copy of the letter we are submitting requesting informtion under the sunshine law - this is almost complete, just drafting Press Release to accompany it and getting contact information compiled.  I will be sending it electronically tonight and in person on Monday (on tape).

----------


## torchbearer

> I plan to be in Jefferson City on Monday and will be visiting Highway Patrol.  If we can get some "educational phamplets" together I will gladly bring them to the office and ask to disburse them to law enforcement. 
> 
> I will also have a copy of the letter we are submitting requesting informtion under the sunshine law - this is almost complete, just drafting Press Release to accompany it and getting contact information compiled.  I will be sending it electronically tonight and in person on Monday (on tape).


DO you have any C4L lit?

----------


## MelissaCato

> DO you have any C4L lit?


LOL 
...that was funny.

----------


## torchbearer

> LOL 
> ...that was funny.


Well, if the C4L is pro-militia, their educational material would point to such a thing.
Maybe they need to read the info themselves.

Bring a constitution with you too. (and a bunch of friends in case they try to arrest you for having one)

----------


## MelissaCato

> Well, if the C4L is pro-militia, their educational material would point to such a thing.
> Maybe they need to read the info themselves.
> 
> Bring a constitution with you too. (and a bunch of friends in case they try to arrest you for having one)


hummmm .. maybe take the Declaration of Independence with too, just to be safe.

LMAO

Why does all this sound like a comedy ? Or is it just me ?

----------


## pcosmar

> hummmm .. maybe take the Declaration of Independence with too, just to be safe.
> 
> LMAO
> 
> Why does all this sound like a comedy ? Or is it just me ?


Just you.
I can think of many ways to describe it, Funny is NOT one of them.

----------


## torchbearer

> hummmm .. maybe take the Declaration of Independence with too, just to be safe.
> 
> LMAO
> 
> Why does all this sound like a comedy ? Or is it just me ?


It is funny in a way.
But at the same time, they need to know there is nothing to fear.
Their ignorance of what we are talking about is very dangerous right now.
The only way to fix that is to show them, there is nothing to fear.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> It is funny in a way.
> But at the same time, they need to know there is nothing to fear.
> Their ignorance of what we are talking about is very dangerous right now.
> The only way to fix that is the show them, there is nothing to fear.


It's not funny. It's really sad. Tragic.

----------


## torchbearer

The people who created that pamphlet are spreading fear.
They are tying us in with dangerous/criminal people.
We need to bring olive branches and constitutions and show we aren't scary monsters.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> The people who created that pamphlet are spreading fear.
> They are tying us in with dangerous/criminal people.
> We need to bring olive branches and constitutions and show we aren't scary monsters.


Yes, I agree.

I posted this on the radio thread but I think it bears repeating:


> The more I think about it the more irritated I am. I thought Mike did a great job (I'm sounding like a broken record) up to the officer leaving. There were bits and pieces here and there that were ok but he really let Nolan keep hammering on the anarchist/militia aspect when what he should have been saying is, "Look, people that support these 3rd parties, candidates and organizations such as the C4L are people who believe in the rule of law. They are disenfranchised with the system which treats the citizens of this country not as participants in the process but rather as people to be ruled over." This is not about anarchy it's about the Constitution.

----------


## CatherineBleish

visit www.libertyrestorationproject.org to help us strategize, join on con call tonight, same number same time, if the detractor comes back we know we are doing the right thing.

8PM
Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
 Participant Access Code: 999525#

Tonight I have a former homeland security employee explaining what the KC fusion center is and how it works in conjunction with jefferson city.  

Will also have a professional lobbiest and political consultant to give us some advice on approach.

----------


## newbitech

I want to see other documents surface from other states.  If there are any LEO's out there that support the liberty movement, please help us expose these creeps on a national level!

Thanks!

----------


## CatherineBleish

> visit www.libertyrestorationproject.org to help us strategize, join on con call tonight, same number same time, if the detractor comes back we know we are doing the right thing.
> 
> 8PM
> Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
>  Participant Access Code: 999525#
> 
> Tonight I have a former homeland security employee explaining what the KC fusion center is and how it works in conjunction with jefferson city.  
> 
> Will also have a professional lobbiest and political consultant to give us some advice on approach.



former homeland security employee gave me a typed thing but decided not to actually speak on air......  fyi - but he will be on the call and knows a lot about these fusion centers...

----------


## torchbearer

> former homeland security employee gave me a typed thing but decided not to actually speak on air......  fyi - but he will be on the call and knows a lot about these fusion centers...


am I missing the call?

----------


## LittleLightShining

It's on now. rtrradio to listen.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

I'm listening in right now

----------


## UtahApocalypse

im on the call.... listening.

----------


## torchbearer

everyone needs to be listening to this phone call.
this women is on fire. 
wow.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> everyone needs to be listening to this phone call.
> this women is on fire. 
> wow.


I'm in love  hehe

----------


## torchbearer

> I'm in love  hehe


I <3 Liberty Women.
Strong. Independent. Intelligent. Beautiful.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> I'm in love  hehe


Me, too. Wow.

----------


## torchbearer

IVAW gave us problems? wtf?

----------


## LittleLightShining

> IVAW gave us problems? wtf?


Her. They gave her problems about something she released.

----------


## torchbearer

> Her. They gave her problems about something she released.


Because she is a republican?
If we can't depend on these guys to watch our backs.. we don't need them as friends.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> IVAW gave us problems? wtf?


IVAW is a left leaning org. Kokesh is the pioneer libertarian in the group. As Obama continues, and expands, the wars, they will be increasingly disillusioned and ripe for our message. But for now, they are friends, not allies...

----------


## torchbearer

> IVAW is a left leaning org. Kokesh is the pioneer libertarian in the group. As Obama continues, and expands, the wars, they will be increasingly disillusioned and ripe for our message. But for now, they are friends, not allies...


If they don't understand liberty isn't a left/right thing... we need to educate them.
If we can't reach them.. how can we reach anyone else?

----------


## Paulitical Correctness

Is this chick single?

I jest, I jest.

Awesome work!

----------


## LittleLightShining

> If they don't understand liberty isn't a left/right thing... we need to educate them.
> If we can't reach them.. how can we reach anyone else?


We can reach them. 

We should have split discussion about the call to a different thread.

If anyone wants to help with pr in their state contact:

bryon@libertyrestorationproject.org
name and phone number
put want to help in subject line

----------


## CatherineBleish

> am I missing the call?



yes: www.restoretherepublicradio.com

----------


## Live_Free_Or_Die



----------


## btimsah

You know our liberty is in danger when the FBI is "worried" about average citizens who actually "believe in the constitution".  

CONSIDER ME A THREAT, FOR I CHOOSE THE PEOPLE OVER GOVERNMENT.  I CHOOSE FREEDOM OVER TYRANNY!  Consider me a threat.  Yeah, look me up. I am a threat!

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Because she is a republican?
> If we can't depend on these guys to watch our backs.. we don't need them as friends.


It is some of their members - want me kicked out of the group.  Their leaders are on our side, but I am concerned about the perception they have of us.

----------


## newbitech

private mail from the officer.com forum.




> *Molon Labe* 
>                                                               I'm not a Militiamen, cop or service member, however I do know several on here (cops and military) has Molon Labe in their signatures and other places on their profile.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe

The Greek phrase _Molōn labe!_ (Μολὼν λάβε; approximate Classical Greek pronunciation [molɔ̀ːn labé], Modern Greek [moˈlon laˈve]), meaning "Come and take them!", is a classical expression of defiance reported by Plutarch in response to the Persian Army's demand that the Spartans surrender their weapons. It corresponds roughly to the modern equivalent English phrase "over my dead body", "bring it on" or, most closely, "come and get it". It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase.

----------


## CatherineBleish

> If they don't understand liberty isn't a left/right thing... we need to educate them.
> If we can't reach them.. how can we reach anyone else?


That is my concern.  I would like to see someone working intentionally to contact left wing groups about what is happening in Missouri and getting their support.  I can help with this - email me at info@libertyrestorationproject.org if you want to help/take the reigns on this.  I have ideas of who to contact just not the time to actually do right now - so many thigns happening.

----------


## CatherineBleish

Strategic plan to this point: http://www.libertyrestorationproject...lan-of-action/

----------


## Live_Free_Or_Die

> private mail from the officer.com forum.


Went and check that forum out....

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115651

Should we cain criminals and illegal immigrants poll:
72% Yes...

Teen talks about jail-cell beating - thread
"The person I most feel bad for is Deputy Brunner. He was put in a very awkward position."

"Hope he gets to keep his job, as it sounded like he was a probationary employee."

Looks like they got some bad apples right in their own house... where is the memo?

----------


## Aratus

ron paul ran as a Libertarian in 1988 and now he's a Republican and has the option of doing another presidential 
run. during the last election we saw chuck baldwin nudge out alan keyes, and bob barr nudge out several top 
contenders including alaska's mike gravel.  http://www.lp.org/ had keyes and gravel won the top slot 
in both the parties, would the memo be more ludicrous or equally ludicrous? either way, and i'm inclined to think 
its an equal degree of stupidity concerning a profiling. i am upset over the way things blanket brush people...

----------


## Aratus

a million voters voted directly for ron paul. 
we are a nation of 330,ooo,ooo people. if 
the very few hypothetical hotheads are 
actually significantly statistically less than 
a given randomized sampling of the general
public, then maybe the statistically higher I.Q
scores Libertarians tend to have does point
to how educated they are. brighter than the
statistical norm. perhaps more lawbiding than
the same. to blanket~brush the Libertarians
in the way the memo does is an injustice. 
ron paul is now a leading contender for the
presidency inside the g.o.p and has distanced
himself from all hotheaded agitators and agent
provocateurs. he is not a fool. he tends to vouch
for chuck baldwin, and yes, mike gravel is now
part of the Libertarian Party and alan keyes is
the fellow who is a close second to chuck baldwin...

----------


## cindy25

http://www.prisonplanet.com/police-t...errorists.html

----------


## ihsv

> Went and check that forum out....
> 
> http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=115651
> 
> Should we cain criminals and illegal immigrants poll:
> 72% Yes...
> 
> Teen talks about jail-cell beating - thread
> "The person I most feel bad for is Deputy Brunner. He was put in a very awkward position."
> ...


Those forums are full of statist, arrogant, authoritarian, "I'm-better-than-the-sheep", "love-my-guns-but-camcorders-should-be-outlawed thugs".   They have no concept of liberty, individual rights, freedom, their true position in society, the Constitution, etc.  

Granted, not all are like that, but I've seen enough on those boards to be given a serious jolt of reality.

----------


## pcosmar

> Those forums are full of statist, arrogant, authoritarian, "I'm-better-than-the-sheep", "love-my-guns-but-camcorders-should-be-outlawed thugs".   They have no concept of liberty, individual rights, freedom, their true position in society, the Constitution, etc.  
> 
> Granted, not all are like that, but I've seen enough on those boards to be given a serious jolt of reality.


Reality check.
Boot to the head style.

----------


## constituent

> Reality check.
> Boot to the head style.


the baby seal treatment.

----------


## Bruno

> Those forums are full of statist, arrogant, authoritarian, "I'm-better-than-the-sheep", "love-my-guns-but-camcorders-should-be-outlawed thugs".   They have no concept of liberty, individual rights, freedom, their true position in society, the Constitution, etc.  
> 
> Granted, not all are like that, but I've seen enough on those boards to be given a serious jolt of reality.


Just more evidence of why are 2nd Amendment rights are so important to protect.

----------


## ItsTime

Darn missed the phone call

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Hits the MSM




> http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/
> 
> Tim Neal of Miller County was shocked recently when he heard a radio program about a strategic report compiled by state and federal law enforcement agencies to combat terrorism.
> 
> Titled “The Modern Militia Movement,” the report is dated Feb. 20 and designed to help police identify militia members or domestic terrorists. Red flags outlined in the document include political bumper stickers such as those for U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, talk of conspiracy theories such as the plan for a mega-highway from Canada to Mexico and possession of subversive literature.
> 
> But when Neal read the report, he couldn’t help but think it described him. A military veteran and a delegate to the 2008 Missouri Republican state convention, he didn’t appreciate being lumped in with groups like the Neo-Nazis.
> 
> “I was going down the list and thinking, ‘Check, that’s me,’ ” he said. “I’m a Ron Paul supporter, check. I talk about the North American union, check. I’ve got the ‘America: Freedom to Fascism’ video loaned out to somebody right now. So that means I’m a domestic terrorist? Because I’ve got a video about the Federal Reserve?”
> ...

----------


## ItsTime

> Hits the MSM


Thanks

----------


## torchbearer

the more this gets out, the better.

----------


## phill4paul

> Hits the MSM


 Sent it on to Drudge.

  Others should do the same.

----------


## Elle

I feel like someone just punched me in the belly.

----------


## CatherineBleish

yaye for MSM reporting this.  woooot!

----------


## LittleLightShining

Someone should stumble it. I would but the stumble captcha hates me 

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/

----------


## speciallyblend

> Those forums are full of statist, arrogant, authoritarian, "I'm-better-than-the-sheep", "love-my-guns-but-camcorders-should-be-outlawed thugs".   They have no concept of liberty, individual rights, freedom, their true position in society, the Constitution, etc.  
> 
> Granted, not all are like that, but I've seen enough on those boards to be given a serious jolt of reality.


yep they are called mccain supporters and obama  hehe sorry teasin but some truth to that

----------


## UtahApocalypse

This thing has legs!!

----------


## tremendoustie

> Hits the MSM


This is a GREAT article, much better than the radio show. MSM gets it right for once.

----------


## phill4paul

There is a little box on the right hand corner to send news to the Drudge Report.

  Give a spiffy summary then the link to:

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/


  If Drudge posts it then other MSM will follow.

  editted link.

----------


## pinkmandy

> There is a little box on the right hand corner to send news to the Drudge Report.
> 
>   Give a spiffy summary then the link to:
> 
> http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/
> 
>   If Drudge posts it then other MSM will follow.


+ 1 and DONE

----------


## puppetmaster

> There is a little box on the right hand corner to send news to the Drudge Report.
> 
>   Give a spiffy summary then the link to:
> 
> http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/
> 
>   If Drudge posts it then other MSM will follow.



page not found.....

----------


## phill4paul

> page not found.....


  Try this one. The other was working earlier.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/

----------


## pinkmandy

> page not found.....


Use this link: http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/

----------


## puppetmaster

got it thanks

----------


## axiomata

> Use this link: http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/


Has this article been submitted to digg?

----------


## trey4sports

im ashamed to call MO home....

----------


## LittleLightShining

> im ashamed to call MO home....


From what I've heard over the last few days MO is on the cutting edge of liberty legislation. At least you have politicians with some cajones who are willing to take on these issues. I don't think I could find one in Vermont who would tackle this one. We're having a hard enough time trying to find one who will sponsor 10th amendment legislation.

----------


## jake

digg please: http://digg.com/politics/Missouri_Po...are_Terrorists

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> digg please: http://digg.com/politics/Missouri_Po...are_Terrorists


Damn... I guess you didn't read the threads. The headline you choose is... I hardly know what to say...

We want to frame this in a way that shows how it affects people who are not Ron Paul supporters...

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Damn... I guess you didn't read the threads. The headline you choose is... I hardly know what to say...
> 
> We want to frame this in a way that shows how it affects people who are not Ron Paul supporters...


Bury it and make a new one.

----------


## jake

> Damn... I guess you didn't read the threads. The headline you choose is... I hardly know what to say...
> 
> We want to frame this in a way that shows how it affects people who are not Ron Paul supporters...


if you don't like it submit a new one and I'll digg it

----------


## Conza88

Buried for Inaccurate.

----------


## robert4rp08

Here's some more coverage. The first is from the AP!
http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1086524.html 

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/

http://reason.com/blog/show/132250.html

http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/20...ia-propaganda/

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

I'm busy with a neo-con convert on facebook (having amazing success) Please diggers use titles like, 

Police report equates mainstream political views with domestic terrorism... 

Police report names GOP voters as potential Domestic Terrorists...

or something like that...

----------


## CatherineBleish

> im ashamed to call MO home....


Be proud.  They are going after us because we are doing the right thing.  Hold your head high, and keep speaking the truth.  We may end up being the freest state in the union after this.  Something to strive for, something to celebrate

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Here's some more coverage. The first is from the AP!
> http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1086524.html 
> 
> http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/
> 
> http://reason.com/blog/show/132250.html
> 
> http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/20...ia-propaganda/



YES thank you for sharing!!!!

----------


## trey4sports

> Be proud.  They are going after us because we are doing the right thing.  Hold your head high, and keep speaking the truth.  We may end up being the freest state in the union after this.  Something to strive for, something to celebrate


on the upside one of the members in my meetup group is running for state rep in my district in 2010

----------


## jake

> Here's some more coverage. The first is from the AP!
> http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1086524.html 
> 
> http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/
> 
> http://reason.com/blog/show/132250.html
> 
> http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/20...ia-propaganda/


wow, getting lots of coverage, very nice

----------


## CatherineBleish

> on the upside one of the members in my meetup group is running for state rep in my district in 2010


Who?  LRP will support them!

----------


## CatherineBleish

If you would like to help us strategize in response to the MAIC report in Missouri, please join on con call tonight, same number same time, if the detractor comes back we know we are doing the right thing.

We will have updates on our action plan: http://www.libertyrestorationproject...plan-of-action

I will include c4l's response to our plan so we can re-evaluate as needed.

8PM CENTRAL
Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
 Participant Access Code: 999525#

----------


## CatherineBleish

I won't be online before the call so please help spread the word, thanks

----------


## trey4sports

> Who?  LRP will support them!


Charity Davis

she used to post on this forum she said, solid RPR

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Leaked memo exposes LEO profiling via common bumper stickers

http://digg.com/politics/Leaked_memo...mper_stickers#

in a hurry, hope the title is agreeable

----------


## Dojo

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/sns-ap-mo...,3835962.story




Law enforcement says some critics are overreacting to Mo. report on militia movement
By Associated Press 
10:43 AM CDT, March 14, 2009

COLUMBIA, Mo. (AP)  A new document meant to help Missouri law enforcement agencies identify militia members or domestic terrorists is drawing criticism.

The Feb. 20 report is called "The Modern Militia Movement."

It mentions such red flags as political bumper stickers for third-party candidates, talk of conspiracy theories and possession of subversive literature.

Critics are concerned, saying it seems like officials are trying to stifle political thought.

But state law enforcement officials say the report is being misinterpreted.

Lt. John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol said it comes purely from publicly available, trend data on militias.

The report was compiled by the Missouri Information Analysis Center in Jefferson City.

___

Information from: Columbia Daily Tribune, http://www.columbiatribune.com

----------


## pcosmar

> Lt. John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol said it comes purely from *publicly available, trend data on militias.*


*Next step*
Get them to name the source of information.

I suspect I know, But I want to hear them say it.

----------


## Reason

Emailed wikileaks several times and they have now posted a link to the AP story on their homepage

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Missouri_r...raws_criticism

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Charity Davis
> 
> she used to post on this forum she said, solid RPR


Oh, I loooove Charity

----------


## CatherineBleish

> *Next step*
> Get them to name the source of information.
> 
> I suspect I know, But I want to hear them say it.



We have a request under the MO sunshine law being put in their hands Monday

----------


## Reason

> We have a request under the MO sunshine law being put in their hands Monday

----------


## ingrid

> *Next step*
> Get them to name the source of information.
> 
> I suspect I know, But I want to hear them say it.


Yeah, I have a feeling I know which group it came from too...the wording is very similar to past stuff I've read.

----------


## jake

anyone contacted Drudge?

----------


## ItsTime

So where did they get the info?

----------


## CatherineBleish

There will be a member of the press on the con call: Trumanlakenews.com

----------


## Chester Copperpot

> So where did they get the info?


hey your avatar is a sign of you being a terrorist.. thank goodness they didnt put my fort moultrie flag avatar on their document. HAHAHAA

----------


## ingrid

> So where did they get the info?


My guess is the ADL.  I read some of their "thoughts" on the anti-tax movement not too long ago & the wording is pretty similar.  

btw there was a recent thread here about what they view as an "extremist" event...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=183628

----------


## sluggo

The ADL has attacked Pat Buchanan and the GOA for being anti-Israel and for supporting "dangerous" militias.

http://www.adl.org/mwd/elect96.asp

----------


## ingrid

_During the search of Struve's Spokane home, agents found anti-government literature, including a bumper sticker reading, "End the Fed," an example of the hostility of anti-government extremists to the Federal Reserve.  Right-wing anti-government extremists (the so-called "patriot" movement) generally believe that Federal Reserve Notes (i.e., paper money) are not legitimate currency, and advocate repealing the entire Federal Reserve U.S. banking system. Recent "End-the-Fed" rallies have taken place across the United States promoting legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Act._
http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_i...sm_in_the_News

hmm

----------


## torchbearer

am I missing the phone call?

----------


## ingrid

> am I missing the phone call?



yea

-----
8PM CENTRAL
Conference Dial-in Number: (641) 715-3625
Participant Access Code: 999525#


Call live now - press on the call - please call in!!!

----------


## CatherineBleish

over. for updates :www.libertyrestorationproject.org

----------


## axiomata

> The ADL has attacked Pat Buchanan and the GOA for being anti-Israel and for supporting "dangerous" militias.
> 
> http://www.adl.org/mwd/elect96.asp


I wouldn't consider GOA to be squeaky clean.  I know won't join it.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/militia/militia7.html

I should probably note, that most of the article is BS, I only posted it for the part about Larry Pratt speaking at a white supremacy meeting.  His talk was likely just about gun rights, but I have no motivation to join a group lead by someone who happily speaks at such an engagement.

Tread lightly on these grounds.  Public sentiment is already set on these militia matters, and it is a battle now worth fighting IMO.

----------


## pcosmar

> So where did they get the info?


I would suspect the SPLC (southern poverty law center) It is about their speed.

----------


## pcosmar

> I wouldn't consider GOA to be squeaky clean.  I know won't join it.
> 
> http://www.rickross.com/reference/militia/militia7.html
> 
> I should probably note, that most of the article is BS, I only posted it for the part about Larry Pratt speaking at a white supremacy meeting.  His talk was likely just about gun rights, but I have no motivation to join a group lead by someone who happily speaks at such an engagement.
> 
> Tread lightly on these grounds.  Public sentiment is already set on these militia matters, and it is a battle now worth fighting IMO.


Well the NRA is not much help. They pushed for the Veterans Disarmament Bill.
The GOA and the JPFO are the 2 best 2nd amendment advocates.




> "GOA is the only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington."
> -Ron Paul
> U.S. Congressman, Texas





> "Gun Owners of America is considered the most aggressive pro-gun lobbying organization."
> -Roll Call
> the newspaper of record on Capitol Hill


The ADL and the SPLC seem to be on the same page, They are both Rabidly Socialist and are pushing an agenda.
The irony of a hate group naming others as hate groups.

----------


## axiomata

> Well the NRA is not much help. They pushed for the Veterans Disarmament Bill.
> The GOA and the JPFO are the 2 best 2nd amendment advocates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ADL and the SPLC seem to be on the same page, They are both Rabidly Socialist and are pushing an agenda.
> The irony of a hate group naming others as hate groups.


I fully understand and agree with the reasons for liking the GOA.  And I'm sure most of its members, especially the younger ones who joined because of the Ron Paul movement don't have any baggage, I just think it is important to know the history of the organization, even if it is not currently proceeding in that direction.  You can be sure it would be used against us.

----------


## ingrid

Look what I found...

_Domestic Extremism Trainings in the Midwest

Posted: February 13, 2009 

An Anti-Defamation League expert presented to the Eastern Missouri Anti Terrorism Advisory Council (ATAC) at the Thomas Eagleton Federal Courthouse in St. Louis, Missouri.  The training was sponsored by the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri. 

 The presentation featured an update on extremism in the Midwest, with an emphasis on the white supremacist groups National Socialist Movement (NSM), Volksfront, and Supreme White Alliance. 

Approximately 70 federal, state and local law enforcement personnel attended, representing the National Park Service Rangers, Department of Homeland Security, US Coast Guard Intelligence Operations, Missouri Information Analysis Center of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, Centcom Military Command at Ft. Leonard Wood, St. Louis County Intelligence, FBI, and ATF. 

An Anti-Defamation League expert also conducted an extremism training in Cleveland, Ohio. Intelligence analysts from the FBI, JTTF, Secret Service, Cuyahoga County Sherriff's Dept, and Northeast Ohio Fusion Center gathered for the presentation on hate groups, hate symbols, Ohio Klan groups, Ohio militia groups, and regional racist skinhead groups, including the Ohio State Hooligans and Supreme White Alliance_.


http://www.adl.org/learn/adl_law_enf...=Training_News

----------


## ingrid

And the report is dated a week after the ADL gave them its "Domestic Extremism Training"

_Alex Jones has received a secret report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement” and dated February 20, 2009._
http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/

----------


## DAFTEK

> _During the search of Struve's Spokane home, agents found anti-government literature, including a bumper sticker reading, "End the Fed," an example of the hostility of anti-government extremists to the Federal Reserve.  Right-wing anti-government extremists (the so-called "patriot" movement) generally believe that Federal Reserve Notes (i.e., paper money) are not legitimate currency, and advocate repealing the entire Federal Reserve U.S. banking system. Recent "End-the-Fed" rallies have taken place across the United States promoting legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Act._
> http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_i...sm_in_the_News
> 
> hmm


hmm... is right, i guess a nation calling to end the FED is wrong huh?Anything against the establishment is wrong and they try to sheep-le the sheep to believe anyone against the establishment is an extremist and a disease....

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Look what I found...
> 
> _Domestic Extremism Trainings in the Midwest
> 
> Posted: February 13, 2009 
> 
> An Anti-Defamation League expert presented to the Eastern Missouri Anti Terrorism Advisory Council (ATAC) at the Thomas Eagleton Federal Courthouse in St. Louis, Missouri.  The training was sponsored by the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri. 
> 
>  The presentation featured an update on extremism in the Midwest, with an emphasis on the white supremacist groups National Socialist Movement (NSM), Volksfront, and Supreme White Alliance. 
> ...





> And the report is dated a week after the ADL gave them its "Domestic Extremism Training"
> 
> _Alex Jones has received a secret report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled The Modern Militia Movement and dated February 20, 2009._
> http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/


Interesting... good find, the timing is quite the ... coincidence

----------


## LibertyEagle

Isn't it though.

----------


## FrankRep

Wow. Over 22,000 views.

----------


## Uriel999

bump for liberty

----------


## Peace&Freedom

> And the report is dated a week after the ADL gave them its "Domestic Extremism Training"
> 
> _Alex Jones has received a secret report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement” and dated February 20, 2009._
> http://www.infowars.com/secret-state...re-terrorists/


Wouldn't be surprised if the ADL provided portions of the write-up language for the report themselves. It's a total link-up of all freedom people to some supposedly still active militia force, which is in turn summarily and sinisterly lumped into terrorism/extremism. Notice it does all this without a single reference to 9-11 truth, thus backing my impression that the intent of the other side is to marginalize the entire movement, _whether or not_ it includes the 9-11 issue on its agenda. It's no 'coincidence,' it's a set-up and conspiracy, as usual.

----------


## ProBlue33

After going through all 70 pages of this thread, I know too much time. It made me think of something that happened during the primaries. Some won't believe this I know, but I made a mental note of it at the time.
During one of the Bilderberg meetings Ron Paul came up, his idea's/movement and supporters, they don't like them, and somebody was specifically assigned to counter act them and not just the primary run, but the entire movement they don't want it gaining traction.

This type of thing is exactly the MO of the people who are trying to discredit/scare/belittle the movement.

I am telling you people, but you already know this, you NEED your local cops on your side, if they are not, all is lost. 

It is the police who choose to enforce policy or not. 

The worst policeman is a sheeple policeman, one who reads this memo see's a Ron Paul sticker on a car that did nothing wrong, and stops it because he read they could be a domestic terrorist. 

The 21 Century way to discredit most anybody call them a terrorist or say they pal around with terrorists, or sympathize with them, or there groups are on a watch list because they are adamant in their support the constitution and that is perceived to lean towards terrorist activities. 

THIS IS MADNESS!

THIS IS AMERICA!

----------


## Dripping Rain

> _During the search of Struve's Spokane home, agents found anti-government literature, including a bumper sticker reading, "End the Fed," an example of the hostility of anti-government extremists to the Federal Reserve.  Right-wing anti-government extremists (the so-called "patriot" movement) generally believe that Federal Reserve Notes (i.e., paper money) are not legitimate currency, and advocate repealing the entire Federal Reserve U.S. banking system. Recent "End-the-Fed" rallies have taken place across the United States promoting legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Act._
> http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_i...sm_in_the_News
> 
> hmm


not surprised but thanks for adding the link
maybe there should be a thread dedicated to exposing this hate group and its sister group the SPLC as well as airing their dirty laundry for a change

----------


## constituent

> not surprised but thanks for adding the link
> maybe there should be a thread dedicated to exposing this hate group and its sister group the SPLC as well as airing their dirty laundry for a change


tons of them, actually.

----------


## CatherineBleish

OK everyone, no con call tonight, there WILL BE ONE Monday night with an update on our experience in Jeff City.  Watch the website this evening for the following:
1. Example letter to the editor
2. Example letter to MO legislatures notifying them of this urgent issues that effect citizens in their district. 
3. Press Release with copy of our letter requesting information under the sunshine law and freedom of information act (drafted by an attorney in MO Republican Politics and reviewed by members of LRP and an attorney who ran for office as a libertarian)


IF YOU WANT TO HELP HAND DELIVER THE REQUST FOR INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP AT 816.868.8806 OR CATHERINE@LIBERTYRESTORATIONPROJECT.ORG TO ARRANGE LOGISTICS.

If you want to help phone bank MO legislatures to let them know of this issue that effects members of their district, please email info@libertyrestorationproject.org and we'll get you set up.  

Review this blog for our strategy facing this matter: http://www.libertyrestorationproject...lan-of-action/

----------


## ingrid

> Wouldn't be surprised if the ADL provided portions of the write-up language for the report themselves.


IMO all the information in the report probably came from the ADL "expert" at the meeting.  Usually if only a few people of a group go to an important meeting for information that's for the whole group, they'll provide a write-up a few days later.

The scary thing is they're probably doing the same thing in other states.  The report claims "we" view cops as the enemy and we're highly trained, so that if they pull one of us over, they'll going to view us as a personal threat and probably will treat us differently just because we might have a Ron Paul bumper sticker.

----------


## AdamT

The ADL is one of the most racist and evil organizations in existence in America, possibly bordering on treasonous IMO. They despise the 1st Amendment. Figures they would be tied up in this labeling others "extreme" and "racist". Hypocrites of the highest degree.

----------


## tmg19103

> After going through all 70 pages of this thread, I know too much time. It made me think of something that happened during the primaries. Some won't believe this I know, but I made a mental note of it at the time.
> During one of the Bilderberg meetings Ron Paul came up, his idea's/movement and supporters, they don't like them, and somebody was specifically assigned to counter act them and not just the primary run, but the entire movement they don't want it gaining traction.
> 
> This type of thing is exactly the MO of the people who are trying to discredit/scare/belittle the movement.
> 
> I am telling you people, but you already know this, you NEED your local cops on your side, if they are not, all is lost. 
> 
> It is the police who choose to enforce policy or not. 
> 
> ...


Screw the local cops. You want to own their bosses - township commissioners in my case.

I just got our police chief shipped out of town. The local cops won't come near me for fear something they do or say will be taken the wrong way by me.

My local commssioners are terrified of me - and thus will listen to me.

No threats of violence, no extremism. I just stand up in township meetings and politely tell it like it is while receiving applause from fellow citizens.

There is power in numbers, but you have to play up to the concerns of other citizens that have nothing to do with Ron Paul to get them on your side, then you slowly educate them with knowledge of what is really going on. Never give them too much at once or their heads will explode. Get them curious and let them figure it out.

The best way to win on the municipal level in my mind is not to lead with Ron Paul and his message. Join in on whatever stupid local issue is concerning citizens who are afraid of their pathetic local government, take the bull by the horns and bring it up in townhip meetings and become their hero. Continue to always work with their issues while slowly educating them to what is really going on - again in a way where you plant seeds and they figure it out.

Then you own the township.

----------


## CatherineBleish

At 9am we will meet at MSHP hq to deliver the sunshine law letter and the freedom of information act letter.  If you plan to join us, please contact me at 816.868.8806 asap.  KC caravan will be leaving at 6am.  See you in the parking lot in Jeff City  

Missouri State Highway Patrol

General Headquarters

1510 East Elm Street

Jefferson City, MO 65102

Telephone: (573) 751-3313

----------


## Roxi

...

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

What about people with Obama bumper stickers?  He has a direct association with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers.

And the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and Morris Dees are a real hate group.  Yet I bet you could but their bumper sticker on your car without police abuse.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

And the ADL sucks too.

----------


## Bryon Huber

BLOG ENTRY FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
MISSOURI LIBERTY GROUP RESPONDS TO MIAC MILITIA REPORT

The Liberty Restoration Project (www.libertyrestorationproject.org), a Kansas City-based political education organization has begun to implement a strategy in response to a Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) Strategic Report on the modern militia movement.  The report, released February 20th, suggests that bumper stickers and publications showing support for Ron Paul, the Libertarian Party, the Campaign for Liberty, and other segments of the Freedom Movement may be “political paraphernalia” used by members of radical militia groups.  The report also considers anti-abortion signage, documentaries such as Freedom to Fascism, the Gadsden Flag, and signage critical of the Federal Reserve Bank to be “propaganda” and possible indications of paramilitary extremism.
In response to the high volume of questions and responses after the memorandum was released by an unnamed law enforcement officer, Lieutenant John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol suggests that the report is being misinterpreted and “Troopers have been shot by members of groups, so it’s our job to let law enforcement officers know what the trends are in the modern militia movement”.  While it may be true that it was poorly written and benign in nature, and it may also be true, in a coincidental sense, that members of paramilitary groups are attracted to libertarian political views, the document opens the possibility of political profiling.  Why should anyone be afraid of displaying a bumper sticker for fear of profiling?  This is not an overreaction to say the least.
Perhaps most egregious of all, the MIAC (a Department of Homeland Security Fusion Center) does not differentiate between a militia, which is Constitutional and exists in many states, and paramilitary groups.  Vile paramilitary groups such as the Christian Identity Movement and White Nationalists are listed as “ideologies” of the militia and lumped in with them are “Tax Resistors” and “Anti-Immigration” activists.  The intent of the authors of the document could be simply misled and driven by mainstream Republican/Democrat thinking as being “normal”.  But, the suggestion that criticism of government policy, a political philosophy outside of mainstream party noise, and liberal activism is akin to terrorism must be revealed and abolished in its earliest stages.  The Liberty Restoration Project is demanding a retraction by the Governor as the Chief Executive in title on the report itself and an apology from the MIAC.
The Liberty Restoration Project (LRP) has announced a five-part strategy to face the implications of the MIAC report:
1.	SUNSHINE/FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS:  On Monday, March 16th, requests for documents, emails, publications and multimedia used as sources for the MIAC Report were made under the Sunshine Law in Missouri by members of LRP.  These requests were hand-delivered to Governor Nixon, the State Highway Patrol, the Missouri Office of Homeland Security, and the Department of Public Safety.
2.	THE MISSOURI LEGISLATURE:  On Wednesday, March 18th an email blast and phone bank campaign will be launched to Missouri legislative representatives to make them aware of the Sunshine Law requests and to provide the MIAC information and to ask for an investigation.  Once the Legislature is back in session (March 23rd), representatives of LRP, Campaign for Liberty, and other participants in the Freedom Movement will lobby legislators in person in Jefferson City.  If you would like to help phone bank, contact jesse@libertyrestorationproject.org .  LRP will be posting a phone script and sample letters you can use to send to Missouri representatives and the Governor.  As always, please be polite and professional.
3.	MONEY TALKS:  Working with Restore the Republic, Kansas City activists will begin strategic communication with the Missouri Chamber of Commerce and the Missouri Tourism Council.  They will be notifying them of the intent to deter tourism and travel to Missouri until a retraction is made by Governor Nixon.
4.	PUBLIC RELATIONS:  Members of the Liberty Restoration Project will be releasing Letters to the Editor and Opinion Articles once the Governor and other agencies have had three days to reply to the Sunshine requests. The editorials will be sent to all newsprint and news media in Missouri.  Samples of these works will also be available at the LRP website for work in your state.
5.	A CALL TO JOIN US AND CONTINUE THE WORK:  We in the Freedom Movement must continue the message.  We have nothing to hide and nothing to fear – it is the ones who wrote the MIAC Report that fear the Freedom Message.  The Campaign for Liberty Regional Conference must sell out and get media attention.  And the Kansas City Monopoly March (End the FED II) on April 25th could be the biggest in the nation!

If you would like to aid in the campaign to smother the internet with this information, please contact Bryon Huber at: bryon@libertyrestorationproject.org

In Liberty,  
Kent Andel, The Liberty Restoration Project

----------


## axiomata

> BLOG ENTRY FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
> MISSOURI LIBERTY GROUP RESPONDS TO MIAC MILITIA REPORT
> 
> The Liberty Restoration Project (www.libertyretorationproject.org), a Kansas City-based political education organization has begun to implement a strategy in response to a Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) Strategic Report on the modern militia movement.  The report, released February 20th, suggests that bumper stickers and publications showing support for Ron Paul, the Libertarian Party, the Campaign for Liberty, and other segments of the Freedom Movement may be political paraphernalia used by members of radical militia groups.  The report also considers anti-abortion signage, documentaries such as Freedom to Fascism, the Gadsden Flag, and signage critical of the Federal Reserve Bank to be propaganda and possible indications of paramilitary extremism.
> In response to the high volume of questions and responses after the memorandum was released by an unnamed law enforcement officer, Lieutenant John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol suggests that the report is being misinterpreted and Troopers have been shot by members of groups, so its our job to let law enforcement officers know what the trends are in the modern militia movement.  While it may be true that it was poorly written and benign in nature, and it may also be true, in a coincidental sense, that members of paramilitary groups are attracted to libertarian political views, the document opens the possibility of political profiling.  Why should anyone be afraid of displaying a bumper sticker for fear of profiling?  This is not an overreaction to say the least.
> Perhaps most egregious of all, the MIAC (a Department of Homeland Security Fusion Center) does not differentiate between a militia, which is Constitutional and exists in many states, and paramilitary groups.  Vile paramilitary groups such as the Christian Identity Movement and White Nationalists are listed as ideologies of the militia and lumped in with them are Tax Resistors and Anti-Immigration activists.  The intent of the authors of the document could be simply misled and driven by mainstream Republican/Democrat thinking as being normal.  But, the suggestion that criticism of government policy, a political philosophy outside of mainstream party noise, and liberal activism is akin to terrorism must be revealed and abolished in its earliest stages.  The Liberty Restoration Project is demanding a retraction by the Governor as the Chief Executive in title on the report itself and an apology from the MIAC.
> The Liberty Restoration Project (LRP) has announced a five-part strategy to face the implications of the MIAC report:
> 1.	SUNSHINE/FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUESTS:  On Monday, March 16th, requests for documents, emails, publications and multimedia used as sources for the MIAC Report were made under the Sunshine Law in Missouri by members of LRP.  These requests were hand-delivered to Governor Nixon, the State Highway Patrol, the Missouri Office of Homeland Security, and the Department of Public Safety.
> 2.	THE MISSOURI LEGISLATURE:  On Wednesday, March 18th an email blast and phone bank campaign will be launched to Missouri legislative representatives to make them aware of the Sunshine Law requests and to provide the MIAC information and to ask for an investigation.  Once the Legislature is back in session (March 23rd), representatives of LRP, Campaign for Liberty, and other participants in the Freedom Movement will lobby legislators in person in Jefferson City.  If you would like to help phone bank, contact jesse@libertyrestorationproject.org .  LRP will be posting a phone script and sample letters you can use to send to Missouri representatives and the Governor.  As always, please be polite and professional.
> ...


Ought to probably fix their url in any press release.

----------


## Bryon Huber

Fixed. sorry...long night -)

----------


## ShowMeLiberty

> Fixed. sorry...long night -)


You're entitled, Bryon - you've been working hard in MO for freedom for a long time. And you do a great job, BTW. 

I've been spreading the word about this issue on the web and I'll pitch in where I can with the action plan. Now is the time to speak out - before it's too late.

----------


## CatherineBleish

We hit main stream media!  I will co-host an am radio show on thursday and we will interview chuck baldwin about the maic documents!!!


1140 am jason littlejohn's show noon central!

----------


## pinkmandy

> we hit main stream media!  I will co-host an am radio show on thursday and we will interview chuck baldwin about the maic documents!!!
> 
> 
> 1140 am jason littlejohn's show noon central!


fantastic!!!! :d :d :d :d :d

----------


## pinkmandy

oops, wrong thread....

----------


## Roxi

> Charity Davis
> 
> she used to post on this forum she said, solid RPR


Charity has had to move out of state for a while.... 

Vincent David Jericho is a local talk show host, RP supporter, liberty lover, and organizes many events in springfield, mo

hes the one to get in touch with (although he does know about this, hes a facebook friend, and hes been talking about it)

----------


## CatherineBleish

Want to see something funnY?  read the address:

Missouri Emergency Management Agency
2302 Militia Drive
P.O. Box 116
Jefferson City, Missouri 65102
(573) 526-9100
(573) 634-7966 FAX
sema.dps.mo.gov

----------


## Bryon Huber

Ok friends, it is imperative that we get this word out to all the newspapers across the NATION. We can't think about Missouri, so if you have 5 minutes of free time to get this story out, search the newspapers in your town and send them THIS template filled in with your info and make them aware of this mess. ALSO, if you want to make revisions, please do but PLEASE make sure that you keep this as positive as possible and not lash out at anyone or anything. This is a time to remain calm and cool!

Thanks to Josh Carter for whipping this Letter to the Editor together and SO well!!! Kudos!

Dear ______,

Let me tell you a bit about myself. My name is ______, I live at/near/in ________. I make a living doing _______. My hobbies include _______ and _______. I am also politically active. I supported _____ during the recent presidential election because of his/her support for peaceful foreign policy as well as sensible domestic policy. The reason I mention this and the reason I am writing you today is because of my concern with a recent Missouri Information Analysis Center Strategic Report.

This report, entitled The Modern Militia Movement was distributed to law enforcement officials within Missouri. It contains information on radical militant groups and according to Lt. Hotz at the MIAC, was intended to let law enforcement officers know what the trends are in the modern militia movement . Said report was put out by the MIAC, which is a fusion center created by the 911 Commission Act of 2007. These fusion centers, being set up all around the country, are tasked with coordinating different levels of law enforcement across the states and across the country.

My concern with this report is that it's sophomoric presentation of facts unfairly and inaccurately characterizes certain peaceful political organizations as militant. I believe that the sloppy manner in which the report makes its points could possibly lead well-meaning law enforcement officers to misinterpret common, peaceful political paraphernalia as a red flag indicating radical militarism. Law enforcement officers' jobs are hard enough without being given misleading information about who they should be looking out for.

My contention is not that this report misrepresents those who are violent, but that it names activities and groups without making it clear that the vast majority of the people that make up these groups are in no way militant or violent. For instance, the report lists and displays the First Navy Jack Flag as a Militia Symbol. Perhaps some members of some militia that I'm not aware of display this flag as theirs, but until I read this report, the only time I've seen such a flag flown or displayed was by current or former Navy servicemen. As a matter of fact, the entire U.S. Navy was instructed to fly this flag at the beginning of the War on Terror. Are they a violent, radical militia? Certainly not, but how would a law enforcement officer that had no prior knowledge of this flag know that? My grandfather served in the Navy during World War II and I find it disturbing that he may be thought of for even a second as a radical militant for simply displaying the flag that so many of his fellow servicemen proudly fly.

This article likewise misrepresents and identifies by name certain political movements/organizations such as the Libertarian and Constitutional political parties, as well as the lobbying organization Campaign For Liberty. The names of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and Chuck Baldwin were also mentioned and the report stated that It is not uncommon for militia members to display Constitutional Party, Campaign For Liberty, or Libertarian Party material. Perhaps that is not an untrue statement, but it would seem to imply that these political organizations are somehow violent or militant, especially if one is not familiar with them. This article states that violent, radical militia members believe You[law enforcement officials] Are the Enemy. Maybe they do, I don't know, I've never met one. But I know I take issue with having a peaceful man/woman that I supported for president being mentioned not only in the same document, but just a few paragraphs later.

These are just a few of the many examples of how this report takes what it represents as facts, and presents them so sloppily and carelessly, that an entirely new idea is formed. I hope in the future whoever is putting together these reports takes more care not to tread so close to slander. There is no excuse for misinforming our hard-working officers of the law, whether intentionally or not.

Sincerely,

________________

----------


## LittleLightShining

> We hit main stream media!  I will co-host an am radio show on thursday and we will interview chuck baldwin about the maic documents!!!
> 
> 
> 1140 am jason littlejohn's show noon central!


Fantastic! Is there a stream? If not can someone make a youtube?

Good luck today!




> Ok friends, it is imperative that we get this word out to all the newspapers across the NATION. We can't think about Missouri, so if you have 5 minutes of free time to get this story out, search the newspapers in your town and send them THIS template filled in with your info and make them aware of this mess. ALSO, if you want to make revisions, please do but PLEASE make sure that you keep this as positive as possible and not lash out at anyone or anything. This is a time to remain calm and cool!
> 
> Thanks to Josh Carter for whipping this Letter to the Editor together and SO well!!! Kudos!
> 
> Dear ______,
> 
> Let me tell you a bit about myself. My name is ______, I live at/near/in ________. I make a living doing _______. My hobbies include _______ and _______. I am also politically active. I supported _____ during the recent presidential election because of his/her support for peaceful foreign policy as well as sensible domestic policy. The reason I mention this and the reason I am writing you today is because of my concern with a recent Missouri Information Analysis Center Strategic Report.
> 
> This report, entitled The Modern Militia Movement was distributed to law enforcement officials within Missouri. It contains information on radical militant groups and according to Lt. Hotz at the MIAC, was intended to let law enforcement officers know what the trends are in the modern militia movement . Said report was put out by the MIAC, which is a fusion center created by the 911 Commission Act of 2007. These fusion centers, being set up all around the country, are tasked with coordinating different levels of law enforcement across the states and across the country.
> ...


This is a great letter but much too long. Most papers won't print letters more than 250-300 words long.

----------


## bobbyw24

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/...er-assertions/

----------


## Bryon Huber

Press Release was sent to KC media at 9am monday morning. Please use this Press Release to send to ALL Media aspects you can think of.

Press Release
For Immediate Release

Liberty Restoration Project delivers Sunshine Law request to Jefferson City regarding Police document.

Kansas City, MO. March 16th, 2009: 

Today representatives of the Liberty Restoration Project (LRP) hand delivered a Sunshine Law request to 3 offices in Jefferson City. The Sunshine Law in Missouri is a version of the Federal Freedom of Information Act that allows groups to petition for information. This request was delivered to Missouri Governor Jay Nixons office, Missouri Highway Patrol office and State Emergency Management office. The LRP is operating as a mouthpiece to a national Freedom Movement that feels that a document released by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) on February 20th, 2009, has placed a peaceful movement into the same groupings as Paramilitary, white supremacists, hate groups and unconstitutional Militia. This document was released to the Missouri Highway Patrol offices and was released from the desk of Governor Nixons desk. This document was leaked to the public by someone who obtained it from their law enforcement agency.

The document in question is being criticized by the freedom movement because of such generalized information provided in the document. The document was written as a training tool for the police to be able to identify Militia members and protect officers as well and citizens. Instead the document managed to label anyone with a political view that differs from the two party designs. This document indicates current Texas Congressman Ron Paul as an icon for the Paramilitary movement, as well as displaying an inverted American flag, or having copies of documentaries that discuss issues that are relevant to the freedom movement. This document indicates that displaying a 3rd Party bumper sticker, or a Gadsden Flag, or even carrying a copy of the United States Constitution could be considered political paraphernalia. The freedom movement as a whole feels that this document will allow Missouri police to profile vehicles, individuals, organizations, or even political figures as radical or extremists, and will infringe upon a persons 1st amendment right to express their views. The most immediate threat to this peaceful group will come at the end of March when Congressman Ron Paul will hold a regional conference in St. Louis, MO. This conference will bring in hundreds of supporters into Missouri, and now most are fearful of being singled out and profiled against, and potentially having their rights violated by the police, all because of a generalized and poorly informed document.

 	The Liberty Restoration Project is requesting on behalf of a national freedom movement for a retraction of this document, and a formal apology from the Governor, MIAC, and the Missouri Highway Patrol. The Liberty Restoration Project in Kansas City will extend a hand in drafting information that will not only clarify a position of a freedom movement, but also assist in better informing law enforcement officials in hopes to protect our peacekeeping officers and citizens. 
For More information about the LRP, please visit: www.libertyrestorationproject.org
Please contact Bryon Huber at: 816-739-8064
Attached you will find the Sunshine Law request that was submitted.
Full MIAC report can be found at : http://www.scribd.com/doc/13232178/M...litia-Movement
####

----------


## speciallyblend

> Fantastic! Is there a stream? If not can someone make a youtube?
> 
> Good luck today!
> 
> This is a great letter but much too long. Most papers won't print letters more than 250-300 words long.


yep needs to be 200-300 words long

----------


## Dripping Rain

> We hit main stream media!  I will co-host an am radio show on thursday and we will interview chuck baldwin about the maic documents!!!
> 
> 
> 1140 am jason littlejohn's show noon central!


sucks that we have to wait till thursday but thanks Catherine thats still good news

----------


## LittleLightShining

Just wanted to let you guys know that I called C4L again today and was told they are working on a response. I suggested they get in touch with LRP.

----------


## Bryon Huber

Thanks for the info. Catherine is in Jefferson City as we speak laying the foundation of this process. We are expecting a hornets nest, and welcome the opportunity to help the state, and police on formulating a proper opinion of our freedom movers. I believe we need to react out of love, and not the anger that most are feeling. We are all upset, but this is an opportunity to get our message across to so many people. I feel a bit like Rham Emanuel, and that scares me lol.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Thanks for the info. Catherine is in Jefferson City as we speak laying the foundation of this process. We are expecting a hornets nest, and welcome the opportunity to help the state, and police on formulating a proper opinion of our freedom movers. I believe we need to react out of love, and not the anger that most are feeling. We are all upset, but this is an opportunity to get our message across to so many people. I feel a bit like Rham Emanuel, and that scares me lol.


I have a good feeling about this. I'm so encouraged that this is happening in a place like MO with an intelligent, organized, motivated team to handle it. (Not to say that there aren't folks like this in other states but you guys are exceptional!)

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Thanks for the info. Catherine is in Jefferson City as we speak laying the foundation of this process. We are expecting a hornets nest, and welcome the opportunity to help the state, and police on formulating a proper opinion of our freedom movers. I believe we need to react out of love, and not the anger that most are feeling. We are all upset, but this is an opportunity to get our message across to so many people. I feel a bit like Rham Emanuel, and that scares me lol.


LOL - Calm and rational; wisdom rules the day 

thanks

----------


## AdamT

"No good crisis should go to waste...."

----------


## Dripping Rain

> I feel a bit like Rham Emanuel, and that scares me lol.


lol
keep up the great work

----------


## DAFTEK

*//*

----------


## DAFTEK

//

----------


## Thylacine

Wow, this caused a real stir on some of the Gun Boards I belong to.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Wow, this caused a real stir on some of the Gun Boards I belong to.


Oh good!

----------


## Bryon Huber

That's what we need. The more people that realize that we are being targeted, the better!

----------


## Original_Intent

WorldNetDaily finally linked to the ColumbiaTimes article. That's some good coverage, too bad it took them 3 days after I emailed them to do so.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

I just finished the gruesome task of reviewing line of fire deaths in MO in the period specified in the MIAC report (1980-Present)

I used this site

http://www.odmp.org

They set a precedent of mentioning group affiliation.

There are only two, in MO, which mention group affiliation, both neo-nazi

Here they are:




> Trooper Jimmie Elliott Linegar
> Missouri State Highway Patrol, MO
> EOW: Monday, April 15, 1985
> Cause of Death: Gunfire
> Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at checkpoint. Neither Trooper Linegar or his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a Federal Grand Jury for involvement in a Neo-Nazi group accused of murder. 
> 
> Trooper Russell W. Harper
> Missouri State Highway Patrol, MO
> EOW: Sunday, February 8, 1987
> ...


RIP to the well meaning and decent cops, who's fall I just reviewed

----------


## libertygrl

> The smartass comments and general disregard for a serious question are very telling.



I'm really not surprised.  When I was a kid I really respected cops.  I even had a cousin who was a cop.  But over the past few years whenever I had to deal with a police officer - minor traffic accident,  home emergency, etc  I found them to be downright nasty and disrespectful.    Then you hear all about those taser incidents.... I'm sure there are some good ones out there but they can be pretty scary because you don't know what might set them off.

I think a lot of this boils down to ignorance too.  It's pretty scary when you've got some of these guys walking around with loaded guns and they've got IQ's the equivalent of a doorknob.

Suggestion - Maybe someone could post the following link along with info about the Oath Keepers - present and former U.S. military people who are educated about the Constitution and promise to protect the rights of Americans in time of a national emergency.  Who knows? Even if we get one officer to see the light, at least it's a start.




OATH KEEPERS:
http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/

OATH KEEPERS: ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY 

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as unlawful enemy combatants or to subject them to military tribunal. 

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a state of emergency on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty. 

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps. 

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to keep the peace or to maintain control. 

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

----------


## libertygrl

> This is very disturbing, and frankly, I don't even know how to best address it.  This particular memo/training document is *really* devious and sinister, and I think the people behind it were quite a bit more clever than mere idiots with a 4th grade education, spelling issues notwithstanding.  The memo brings up a whole bunch of serious issues that many Ron Paul supporters really *are* concerned about - such as civil unrest, the NAU, the Federal Reserve, RFID, universal citizen service (involuntary servitude), the NWO, FEMA camps, etc. - and then attributes these concerns to "dangerous militia groups" (rather than grass roots activist groups), tying us in directly by linking us to these supposed milita groups.  At the same time, those issues are described with undertones implying they're not actually a threat, giving the impression that the "right-wing militia groups" concerned about them are just plain crazy.  ...and it goes without saying that the memo paints all real militia groups in a poor light too, which is hardly fair.
> 
> On top of that, check out the *"You are the Enemy"* section:  This memo is taking advantage of widespread mistrust of police and anger at the police brutality epidemic*, painting mistrustful attitudes as a reason for them to be afraid of us!  That's a really frightening way to twist the reality of the situation:  A growing number of people (including many of us) are beginning to view cops warily due to the way they (as a whole) have been treating everyone else...*and somehow, that supposedly makes us a threat to their safety?!?*  If these memos become standard issue, even the honest cops are liable to be more on-edge and trigger-happy around people with RP or CFL bumper stickers (let alone something like the Gadsden Flag)...and who knows what kind of abuses the bully cops might find new excuses for.
> 
> *Unfortunately, the memo is chock full of dangerous half-truths, and these half-truths may be very convincing to the average person (and definitely to the average police officer).*  I do think acptulsa is correct when he says we need to bring this into the court of public opinion, and the Niemöller quote is very poignant here...but the problem is, because of the devious half-truth nature of the memo, it might be harder than many of us here realize to make sure public opinion falls on the right side.   I'm not even sure where to start when it comes to helping Average Joe understand how frightening this really is.  I mean, most people will probably understand the point that singling out supporters of certain politicians (e.g. Ron Paul) is anathema to a democratic republic, but they may make an "exception" if they take the contents of the memo at face value.  After all, many Ron Paul supporters really are concerned by every single one of the issues brought up in the memo, and every single one of us is probably concerned about at least some of them...plus, it would be easy to find out-of-context quotes on these very forums demonstrating an "anti-cop" attitude (including this very post).
> 
> *In other words, if this really is a calculated move in an agenda against us (rather than just a misunderstanding), it will be easy for authoritarians to leverage the numerous half-truths involved to make the entirety of the memo look valid and acceptable in the eyes of Average Joe...and I see no easy way to counter this.*  Any PR experts here?
> 
> *As well as the growing epidemic of falsified reports and perjury by cops with an invincibility complex, combined with the endless plague of "cops protecting cops"
> ...


It all sounds pretty hopeless but the only thing I could think of that may ease the tension on both sides is to have a town hall meeting with the police officers and the community.    It's been done in many African American commuties where there is mistrust on both sides.   At least there would be an attempt for open dialogue where law enforcement can see the faces of regular citizens who were slandered in the memo, and citizens can voice their concerns.  Just an idea..

----------


## libertygrl

> Look, I hate to state the obvious, but this affects all of us.  
> 
> Has anyone considered putting together a class action defamation lawsuit?


Check out Constiutional attorney and writer John Whitehead at http:www.rutherford.org      This is exactly what he fights against.

email:
johnw@rutherford.org

----------


## Dripping Rain

> I just finished the gruesome task of reviewing line of fire deaths in MO in the period specified in the MIAC report (1980-Present)
> 
> I used this site
> 
> http://www.odmp.org
> 
> They set a precedent of mentioning group affiliation.
> 
> There are only two, in MO, which mention group affiliation, both neo-nazi
> ...


RPH you deserve a medal for this post.
thanks for exposing this. but shouldnt they as cops know what happened? this is unbelievable

----------


## Xenophage

I'm waiting for the next Boston Massacre.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> RPH you deserve a medal for this post.
> thanks for exposing this. but shouldnt they as cops know what happened? this is unbelievable


The only point was to explore the Lt's remark, on the Nolan show, that they have had cops killed by these groups... (I need to listen to that again, does anyone have an archive link handy?)

----------


## dr. hfn

We will probably be attacked and targeted more and more as we get more power and influence.  I'm ready to take up arms!

----------


## tremendoustie

> We will probably be attacked and targeted more and more as we get more power and influence.  I'm ready to take up arms!


WTH? Are you trying to help their propaganda?  Promoting violence is not allowed here, and your post sounds a heck of a lot like it.

Ours is a peaceful movement.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> We will probably be attacked and targeted more and more as we get more power and influence.  I'm ready to take up arms!


No need for that, especially when ridicule is so much more fun 

"Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul 
and sings a tune without words and never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson

----------


## Dripping Rain

> The only point was to explore the Lt's remark, on the Nolan show, that they have had cops killed by these groups... (I need to listen to that again, does anyone have an archive link handy?)


im searching but couldnt find the podcasts
help me search here
Gary Nolan's show from friday
http://theeagle939.com/

----------


## pcosmar

> The only point was to explore the Lt's remark, on the Nolan show, that they have had cops killed by these groups... (I need to listen to that again, does anyone have an archive link handy?)


A few cops across the country have been killed by a few of the more radical (criminal) elements.
The vast majority of the Patriot Movement was not violent, though they were prepared for it and many expect it.
Around the time of OKC, they (Media/authorities) focused on the few radical elements and painted the whole movement as racist killers wanting to start a war. The fact was that the Racist/separatists
 were only a small sub group.
Generally the Survivalists/Militia only use violence in self defense.

I expect that if attacked they would respond with force.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> A few cops across the country have been killed by a few of the more radical (criminal) elements.
> The vast majority of the Patriot Movement was not violent, though they were prepared for it and many expect it.
> Around the time of OKC, they (Media/authorities) focused on the few radical elements and painted the whole movement as racist killers wanting to start a war. The fact was that the Racist/separatists
>  were only a small sub group.
> Generally the Survivalists/Militia only use violence in self defense.
> 
> I expect that if attacked they would respond with force.


This the kind of tricky ground we need to be wary in...

----------


## pcosmar

> This the kind of tricky ground we need to be wary in...


Very true.
We certainly don't want the Armed American Citizens as our enemy.

----------


## Reason

http://www.independentpoliticalrepor...cal-profiling/

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

I'm on the call now. Next phase includes lobby packs for all MO legislators including FtF...



Ideas being thrown around include:

Write letters in support of police while decrying this memo. Reach out to cops with this...

Make the KS EtF Rally the centerpiece of 4.25.09

The ghost is back playing nastiness...

John just offered a secure ccall system to rattle the ghost - LOL

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

For those of you ready to run away from the gun owning patriots and pretend to be Ghandi, keep this in mind:

If your activism is successful, as you hope it is, you WILL be needing a gun because the means through which, and by whom, the power of the state is taken and fostered, is such that if you can save the republic with banners, they will respond with guns. 


It has already been proven to happen. It was back in 1775. 

Now, if you all want to get scared and go and run from guns and be all about peaceful activism, fine. But you will end up spending your lives like Birchers and Reaganites   doing petitions that nobody will care about, getting screwed by the GOP (just like.....2008!), and doing eat-meat-retreat while the plutocrats in power enjoy the sound of your chains rattling. 

So keep that in mind. A successful movement takes ALL elements from economic to armed. Leave out armed - like so many "Conservatives" who loved the state and it's power to much they dare not consider anything other than playing politics, and you will be just like the useless old hacks we all had to deal with at the GOP conventions.

----------


## torchbearer

bump

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

I made this video almost 2 years ago. I think it says pretty much what I could say about these matters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXQfJ9Ge6A

----------


## LittleLightShining

Bryon Huber will be on True North Radio (Vermont) today at 11:30 est. Live streaming here: http://www.eve1070.com/

----------


## constituent

> For those of you ready to run away from the gun owning patriots and pretend to be Ghandi, keep this in mind:
> 
> If your activism is successful, as you hope it is, you WILL be needing a gun because the means through which, and by whom, the power of the state is taken and fostered, is such that if you can save the republic with banners, they will respond with guns. 
> 
> 
> It has already been proven to happen. It was back in 1775. 
> 
> Now, if you all want to get scared and go and run from guns and be all about peaceful activism, fine. But you will end up spending your lives like Birchers and Reaganites   doing petitions that nobody will care about, getting screwed by the GOP (just like.....2008!), and doing eat-meat-retreat while the plutocrats in power enjoy the sound of your chains rattling. 
> 
> So keep that in mind. A successful movement takes ALL elements from economic to armed. Leave out armed - like so many "Conservatives" who loved the state and it's power to much they dare not consider anything other than playing politics, and you will be just like the useless old hacks we all had to deal with at the GOP conventions.



...not to mention that you'll need a gun to protect yourself from all the doktor_jeep "patriot" types running around "conquer[ing] this nation."

----------


## pcosmar

> ...not to mention that you'll need a gun to protect yourself from all the doktor_jeep "patriot" types running around "conquer[ing] this nation."


*Totally uncalled for and untrue.* 

Missouri Militia response.
http://usanewsthatmatters.spaces.liv...5678!315.entry




> All are hard working men whose wife’s support everything they do. Not one is a radical or a white supremacist. There are no anti-Semites. In fact some of the members have been Jewish and African-American. The leaders of this organization are in contact with the local sheriffs office every-time there is a get together that involves discharging weapons. The local sheriff knows who they are and where they live.
> 
>     There is no talk of revolution or using any force against law enforcement. Indeed, just the opposite. They have volunteered for food kitchens and search and rescue. They are a transparent organization that only seeks to exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
> 
>     I know these guys, because I have trained with them….Most of these guys have wives and children and there only crime is preparing for the worst, yet hoping for the best. Most of these boys don’t even believe 911 was an inside job. They are patriots and good fathers in every sense of the word. They come from all walks of life and there is not an ounce of racism among all of them combined. Some are college educated white collars and some are blue collars, but all are as normal and patriotic as they come.

----------


## constituent

> *Totally uncalled for and untrue.*


bull$#@!.

start here





> Missouri Militia response.
> http://usanewsthatmatters.spaces.liv...5678!315.entry


canard, you know it.

----------


## pcosmar

> bull$#@!.
> 
> start here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> canard, you know it.


No I don't know it.
http://www.michiganmilitia.com/index.htm

http://www.michiganmilitia.com/SMVM/...d_day_2009.htm

----------


## constituent

> No I don't know it.
> http://www.michiganmilitia.com/index.htm
> 
> http://www.michiganmilitia.com/SMVM/...d_day_2009.htm


oooooook?

----------


## acptulsa

> 


Michigan waits a long time for summer to come.  Looks to be worth the wait!

----------


## constituent

> Michigan waits a long time for summer to come.  Looks to be worth the wait!


not enough sunshine.  by the time winter is through, they're so loco you don't want the drama (i speak from experience).

----------


## tonesforjonesbones

I just sent all the info to the northwest fl aclu.  tones

----------


## ramallamamama

> I made this video almost 2 years ago. I think it says pretty much what I could say about these matters.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXQfJ9Ge6A


Thanks for that video.

----------


## DAFTEK

I think promoting militia groups on this forum will only discourage people to fight corruption in our government peacefully from within and join our cause. I think that the only way to win this fight is to have more and more people join public office, learn from the master himself Mr. Obama how to become president in 5 years or less in politics and change things from the old saying, if you cant beat them, join them but join them to beat them at their own game.... 

Am i wrong?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> I think promoting militia groups on this forum will only discourage people to fight corruption in our government peacefully from within and join our cause. I think that the only way to win this fight is to have more and more people join public office, learn from the master himself Mr. Obama how to become president in 5 years or less in politics and change things from the old saying, if you cant beat them, join them but join them to beat them at their own game.... 
> 
> Am i wrong?


I agree. The only militia I promote is the re-institution of the constitutional one, as outlined by the CoS link in my sig

----------


## acptulsa

> Am i wrong?


Seems to me to be a much wiser course of action than declaring war on Missouri law enforcement officers because they were told to read a memorandum in their morning briefing.

No, there's nothing wrong with militias whatsoever--just as long as you don't use them to harm anyone and you don't get Waco'd.

----------


## emazur

Pretty damning quote below about grouping people together and harassing them on superficial grounds.  Imagine if we replace "black men" with "libertarians"?  Black men can't do anything about their skin color, nor should they, but some libertarians feeling the fear may be all the more likely to take down their Ron Paul bumper stickers and Bob Barr buttons.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,3587334.story
Louisiana Police Chief Russell Mills:
*"If I see three or four young black men walking down the street, I have to stop them and check their names," said Mills, who is white. "I want them to be afraid every time they see the police that they might get arrested.*

----------


## acptulsa

Damn it!  I can't edit the doc, and when I went to post the closing 'disclaimer' just now some mod had cut off the new posts and kicked me out so I lost it.

 

Oh, well, maybe it wasn't that good anyway.  I'll sleep on it.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Damn it!  I can't edit the doc, and when I went to post the closing 'disclaimer' just now some mod had cut off the new posts and kicked me out so I lost it.
> 
>  
> 
> Oh, well, maybe it wasn't that good anyway.  I'll sleep on it.





You sure it ain't a glitch?

----------


## acptulsa

> You sure it ain't a glitch?


Well, if it ain't a glitch I don't know what to call it.  But it has happened often enough I'm very sure that's what causes it.  Used to get a login screen that would keep what I typed and, once I had logged back in, post it.  No more, though.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Well, if it ain't a glitch I don't know what to call it.  But it has happened often enough I'm very sure that's what causes it.  Used to get a login screen that would keep what I typed and, once I had logged back in, post it.  No more, though.


I stay logged in all day, stop in and poke around when I get a moment or two...

Maybe it is a gmail security setting?

----------


## acptulsa

> I stay logged in all day, stop in and poke around when I get a moment or two...
> 
> Maybe it is a gmail security setting?


Not gmail, but yeah, a browser setting that I can't or won't change.  I'm used to it, just miss that login screen that saved the text.  If I had been thinking, I'd have done control c before I relogged...

----------


## CatherineBleish

Freedom To Fascism Videos for every MO State Legislature (to be hand delivered Monday the 23rd)

34 state senators
167 state legislatures
= 201
+ another 49 so we can hit up the Governor, Jeff City Staffers and MO Highway Patrol.

Receipt ID: 0409-5390-3873-0622	Placed on Mar. 17, 2009
Payment For	Quantity	Price
Cart Order #20090317:142454:69.76.179.224
Item #1	1	$375.00 USD
Subtotal:	$375.00 USD
Shipping & Handling:	$18.38 USD
Total Amount:	$393.38 USD



To donate specifically to this cause (Thanks to those who already have you are helping with gas money, printing our lobby packets, and much much much more.)  http://lrp.chipin.com/freedom-to-fas...mo-legislature

----------


## LittleLightShining

> Freedom To Fascism Videos for every MO State Legislature (to be hand delivered Monday the 23rd)
> 
> 34 state senators
> 167 state legislatures
> = 201
> + another 49 so we can hit up the Governor, Jeff City Staffers and MO Highway Patrol.
> 
> Receipt ID: 0409-5390-3873-0622	Placed on Mar. 17, 2009
> Payment For	Quantity	Price
> ...


I love it!

----------


## paulitics

> Freedom To Fascism Videos for every MO State Legislature (to be hand delivered Monday the 23rd)
> 
> 34 state senators
> 167 state legislatures
> = 201
> + another 49 so we can hit up the Governor, Jeff City Staffers and MO Highway Patrol.
> 
> Receipt ID: 0409-5390-3873-0622	Placed on Mar. 17, 2009
> Payment For	Quantity	Price
> ...




brilliant.

----------


## CatherineBleish

More actions 
 1 of 287 Older ›
[MOC4L] Fwd: C4L Responds to Missouri Report 						c4l		X						 
D L Wells to MO
show details 6:54 PM (6 minutes ago)

Reply

Sign the petition below!

My new favorite quote:  "In the end, the national police, state governments, Homeland Security and all the SWAT Teams and spying powers in the world cannot defeat a idea that is true and whose time has come."  Anthony Gregory, Editor-in-Chief, Campaign for Liberty


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Campaign for Liberty <no-reply@campaignforliberty.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Subject: C4L Responds to Missouri Report
To: Deborah Wells <kcrecycler@gmail.com>




March 17, 2009


Dear Friend of Liberty,

Maybe you've heard, or maybe not, but the Missouri State Police think you might be a security threat.

Why?  Because you support Ron Paul and the Campaign for Liberty.  Also, because maybe you own guns, oppose abortion or homeschool.

Even, and I'm serious, because you support the U.S. Constitution.

I know, it's ridiculous...and probably steams you a bit.

But here at Campaign for Liberty we are going to give this foolishness the treatment it deserves.  More on that in a moment.  Let me give you a bit more background.

As you may be aware by now, the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) recently released a report titled, "The Modern Militia Movement" to over one thousand Missouri law enforcement officers.

What is the Missouri Information Analysis Center?  According to its website,

"MIAC is the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri.  MIAC will also function as a vehicle for two-way communication between federal, state and local law enforcement community within our region."
The MIAC warned officers that violent militia members are "usually" supporters of presidential candidates like Ron Paul and are also known for opposition to things like the Federal Reserve and the income tax.

The "study" was undoubtably written by some university liberal who knows nothing of the hundreds of thousands of Missourians who share our values.  I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands of Missouri tax dollars funded this.

Both Ron Paul and Campaign for Liberty champion principles of freedom, peace, and prosperity.  We believe that the Founder's vision for America can be reclaimed through education and peaceful activism.  It is a common practice of elitist intellectuals and backroom bureaucrats to attempt to crowd everyone into groups and stick labels on them, especially when it involves those who support a Constitutionally-limited government.

Anthony Gregory, editor-in-chief at Campaign for Liberty, has posted an excellent new article on our site concerning government broad-brush fear campaigns.

It is important that we respond in the right way when faced with such a government labeling, and the proper way is to go straight to the top in Missouri.

The way to fight thugs and ignorant people in authority is not to cower or rage, but to proudly proclaim who you are and what you believe.

That's why I urge you to sign our Citizen's Petition here today.

Our petition spells out in no uncertain terms who we are and what we believe.  And it reminds those in charge of enforcing Missouri's laws that we are citizen activists who will not be intimidated nor embarassed into silence.

Simply owning a gun does not make you a threat.  It means you are a free citizen.

Supporting our Constitution does not make you worthy of a watchlist, it makes you a Patriot.

So please, sign our Citizen's Petition today.  Be sure to stay tuned for more information on how we plan to respond to the MIAC.

Finally, I want to ask you a final favor.  If you can, please join us next week as we gather in St. Louis for the first Campaign for Liberty Regional Conference and show the people of Missouri what Campaign for Liberty truly stands for and represents.

We will be hosting a free event on Friday Night with Ron Paul and Judge Andrew Napolitano that is open to the public, and the conference will be highlighted by grassroots training on Saturday, March 28.

Learning how to properly mobilize in order to implement liberty-based legislation is absolutely critical to our success as a movement, and our Regional Conference will provide you with the tools you need as we move forward.

For more information on our Conference, check out our Regional Conference page.  For special travel and hotel information, click here.

Liberty is never free, and demands vigilance.

I look forward to seeing you in St. Louis for an exciting weekend of celebration and training!

In Liberty,






John Tate
President, Campaign for Liberty

P.S. And don't forget to fill out our Citizen's Petition, which we will deliver to the Missouri Governor and Attorney General.

To unsubscribe from future Campaign for Liberty e-mails, click here.
You were added to our system on October 15, 2008.  For more information, 
click here.

----------


## CatherineBleish

I want to respond to some concerns about the pressure we are putting on the tourism industry here in Missouri as a result of this letter.

(START AT BOTTOM, THIS IS AN EMAIL CORRESPONDANCE)

<catherine.bleish@gmail.com> wrote:
1. The goal is to have the tourism industry stand up next to us and fix this before the convention.  C4L has millions of dollars and quite frankly I am more concerned with my safety as a liberty loving resident of the state of Missouri than I am C4L's pocket, if that is the cost to put enough pressure on the state to make this happen, then so be it, I would consider it money well spent (and possibly the best money spent by C4L to date).  If they act quickly with us, this will only help them.  It is more about the pressure on the industry than actually pulling out of the hotel.  Most people are calling and saying they are about to change their reservation if something is not done.  Everyone knows our legislature is gone until Monday. 

2. That is exactly the point, money talks, and if folks are saying we WANT to give you our money but are concerned for our safety in your state and so I am either not going to travel there or I am going to stay just across the state line, the tourism industry is likely to stand up WITH us and get this fixed more expediently.  Money does talk - so does the threat of not giving someone your money (the federal government uses that tactic on the states all the time). 

3. I am personally invested in the conference succeeding as I have had LRP purchase a booth so we can sell our t-shirts from our newly opened t-shirt store.  Also, it sends a message to our state authorities that "we are not afraid of you and you have nothing to fear in us".  We should also be encouraging high attendance at the Kansas City, Missouri End the Fed rally!!!!  What evidence do you have that this is decreasing potential attendees and not not increasing attendance?

4. Why?  I have already requested a face to face interview (over the phone last Thursday and again in person at his office on Monday) and delivered a request for information under the Missouri Sunshine law.  Why should I wait to put on the pressure?  I want the Missouri legislature to understand the gravity of this situation when they arrive back in Jefferson City on Monday after their recess.  The only way to do that is to have as many groups, individuals, and industries in this state speaking out against this.  Including the tourism industry. 

5.  I wouldn't question where my horses and carts are - the results of this effort will prove that I have everything rigged properly.  

I do appreciate the feedback, though. 

Catherine Bleish
executive director
Liberty Restoration Project
816-868-8806
Catherine@libertyrestorationproject.org
www.libertyrestorationproject.org

Freedom reaches across party lines. 



On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:55 PM, REMOVED <REMOVED> wrote:
1. has C4L's money commitment (bloc room reservations) to the host
hotel been covered?  if not, C4L will have to pay and guess where that
money comes from - folks like me and you.  it will be a bad thing for
C4L to end up spending money on empty rooms.

2. generally, a pro Liberty event boosting the local economy is a good
thing - money talks - a good thing for Lady Liberty - supporting a
community gains support in a community.  (hummm, thinking of those
efforts by others, "paint the town with $2 bills")

3. Gary's email is having the effect of reducing attendance - a bad
thing.  IMO, C4L has gone out on a limb holding this conference when
they are, because we (all of us) needs for a C4L event to be an
overwhelming success - it being poorly attended will only play into
our enemies hands.  Liberty needs for this thing to be attended by
overflowing crowds.

4. a call for boycotting MO hotels should come only AFTER the Governor
refuses to take action - action as a result of your effort tomorrow -
and action as a result of C4L's petition, etc.

5. calling for a boycott BEFORE HAND, dilutes the action.  in these
parts, we call this getting the horse before the cart.

GOOD ON YOU for the action planed for tomorrow!  the future of
Patriots in 49 states depends on y'all in Missouri - as i said before,
what is contained in the MIAC document has been floating around in
interstate and interdepartmental fliers for years, going back before
9-11, HOWEVER, this is the first time we have "proof," "evidence,"
something we can "sink our teeth into."

prior to this all we have had were paper fliers and latter, emails,
without names from a generic office source or generic email addy to
another - but never names, they didn't dare to put their names to
them.  now, they are!  now, they dare!  and now is the time to stop
it! now is the time to stop what has been growing for years, before it
grows so big we can't stop it.

BUT, almost the only ones that can stop this MIAC thing are
Missourians, certainly you are ones with the most power to do so.
(call upon those allies y'all have made in your Legislature - after
all, they provide funds for this MIAC thing, don't they?)

we are counting on you.  there is only one shot at the first, and
remember, they that work harder lose to they that work smarter.

Good Luck and Godspeed!
-ed
WV

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Catherine Bleish
<catherine.bleish@gmail.com> wrote:
> What are we undermining by asking to send hotel reservations to IL instead
> of MO?
> The governor has been delivered a request for information under the sunshine
> law and tomorrow there is a mass phone / email / pr plan for governor
> Nixon...
> Catherine Bleish
> executive director
> Liberty Restoration Project
> 816-868-8806
> Catherine@libertyrestorationproject.org
> www.libertyrestorationproject.org
>
> Freedom reaches across party lines.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:33 PM, REMOVED <REMOVED> wrote:
>>
>> Catherine-
>> this email sent by Gary is a problem:
>>
>> >>>
>> In case you haven't been told yet, our movement is currently under
>> fire and in question. A document released on 2/20/09 to the Missouri
>> Highway Patrol has directed the officers focus to recognize certain
>> icons as potential "Paramilitary" or unconstitutional "Militia".
>> Unfortunately, most of the imagery or icons used are related to our
>> freedom movement, including Dr. Ron Paul, the movie "America: Freedom
>> to Fascism", and upside down flags are all bundled into a category of
>> potential "Paramilitary".
>>
>> We are alarmed by this document for many reasons, but the most
>> immediate is due to the Campaign For Liberty Regional Conference being
>> held in St. Louis at the end of March, 2009. We feel that we WILL be
>> PROFILED by Missouri police officers, when in reality we do not pose
>> threats.
>>
>> We are asking for your help, and this is only stage ONE of this
>> project. Please call the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce and the St.
>> Louis Convention and Visitors Commission. Let them know because of
>> this Document, you are concerned about traveling to Missouri. Tell
>> them you don't want to be a target of profiling, and because of this
>> document you CANNOT support a states economy that DOES NOT support or
>> 1st Amendment rights without being labeled as potential threats.
>>
>> Action NEEDED:
>>
>> 1. Call the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce and tell them that you are
>> withdrawing your reservations to Ron Paul's Regional Conference and
>> moving to the IL side out of concern of being PROFILED.
>> (314) 231-5555
>>
>> 2. Call the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission and tell them
>> you won't visit Missouri because of "political profiling". (800)
>> 325-7962
>>
>> 3. Call the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) and tell them
>> their generalized information is hurting the image of PEACEFUL FREEDOM
>> LOVERS, and ask them how you can help make this document BETTER! (866)
>> 362-6422 and (573)-526-6115
>>
>> 4. If you are not attending the Campaign for Liberty Regional
>> Conference, call the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce (314-231-5555) and
>> the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission (800-325-7962) and
>> tell them you will not be visiting or spending your money in Missouri
>> because of "political profiling" by the MIAC.
>>
>> Thanks to Bryon Huber and Catherine Bleish from the Liberty
>> Restoration Project for their diligent efforts to draft the action
>> plan in response to this latest threat to liberty.
>>
>> The actions of the MIAC will not go unnoticed by the American people.
>>
>> We need your overwhelming support in this action.  Please forward,
>> post, blog, comment, tweet, and spread this message to every freedom
>> related social network and forum you can find.
>>
>>
>> Forever in Freedom,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary Franchi
>> RTR National Director
>> P.S. Comment and discuss this emergency action here:
>>
>> http://www.restoretherepublic.com/to...-miac-document
>>  <<<
>>
>>
>> as i have written to others:
>> >>>
>> gezz, as if fighting the Socialist Tyranny is not time consuming enough!
>>
>> have attempted to post at RTR under my pseudonym, "pendragon":
>>
>> <<<
>> calling for action that, if successful, will result in the failure of
>> this important conference, BEFORE those in Missouri have done their
>> duty, is irresponsible and hurts the effort to restore the Republic.
>>
>> have our brothers and sisters in Missouri failed to call upon Governor
>> Nixon to repudiate the document and policy?
>>
>> has the Governor refused? (links please)
>>
>> Gary, are you respecting the rights of others?  are you coordinating
>> your efforts with the like-minded?
>>
>> undermining each others efforts only furthers the entrenchment of
>> Socialist Tyranny.  and this begs the question that each of us must
>> ask that person in the mirror, "Who's side am I on?"
>> >>>
>>
>> submitted, but as of yet not posted.
>>
>> -REMOVED
>> <<<
>>
>> FYI: my comment still has not been posted - at the time i submitted,
>> there were 41 posts.
>> is Gary censoring?
>>
>> more importantly,
>> what is the word from Missouri?  what has been done with the Governor's
>> Office?

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

> *Totally uncalled for and untrue.* 
> 
> Missouri Militia response.
> http://usanewsthatmatters.spaces.liv...5678!315.entry




Not necessarily. 

I think you are ALL naughty and in need of a spanking.

----------


## Minarchy4Sale

I wrote Jay an e-mail today.  I hope it gets in front of him.

"Dear Mr. Nixon,

I am a Missouri native, born in X, raised in Y (W County), and attended Z High School in X, and Y Missouri State University.  You and I met, many years ago, in your office, when you were the state senator from my district, and I visited Jefferson City as a member of student government from Z.  My deceased mother was well acquainted with now Sen. X, a close colleague of yours.  In fact, I and my siblings just recently sold my mother's home in X County.  Missouri will always be close to my heart.

Today, Mr. Nixon, I am writing to you to tell you that my home state has shamed me.  A recent report published by the MIAC, part of a fusion center between the MHP and federal agencies, funded with Missouri tax dollars, casts tens of thousands of Missourians, and Millions of Americans as potential terrorists or criminals because they engage the political process outside the two major parties, support pro-liberty candidates, fly old flags, support the constitution of the United States, play paintball, or engage in strong advocacy of the 2nd Amendment.  This is reprehensible, irresponsible, and does nothing to improve the security of our great home state.

I encourage you to order the MIAC to issue an apology for their recent demonization campaign and to cease all similar profiling activities.  I for one will not enter Missouri again, or spend another dollar on a Missouri product or business until the Missouri law enforcement community is no longer being primed for hostility towards liberty advocates.  I am not alone in my convictions.

With respect and admiration for your long and distinguished service to X County and the Great State of Missouri, 

Minarchy4Sale"

----------


## revolutionary8

From the Constitution Party:
*
Police Told Which Political Beliefs to Consider “Dangerous”*

Lancaster, PA:  A secret police report targets millions of Americans as potential “domestic terrorists” if they support the Constitution, oppose unlawful taxation, supported 2008 presidential candidates Republican Ron Paul, Libertarian Bob Barr or Constitution Party candidate Chuck Baldwin (Seen here on Lou Dobbs program ), or if they are opposed to abortion, are against unconstitutional gun control, if they display pro-Constitution bumper stickers or own copies of certain books and documentaries.



The report is part of an ongoing attempt by a number of organizations (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/intrep.jsp) and movements to characterize law-abiding citizens as “white supremacists”, members of “hate groups” or, more recently as “terrorists”.

The report was generated by the Missouri Information Analysis Center 

The Center is described as “the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri.  MIAC will also function as a vehicle for two-way communication between federal, state and local law enforcement community within our region.”


The secret report, distributed to Missouri law enforcement, lists as dangerous legitimate organizations including those who follow a Constitutionally-based ideology in regard to states’ rights, firearm ownership, free speech and sanctity of life.



The Constitution Party , the fastest- growing third party, subscribes to the Constitutionally- based, limited role of the federal government and calls on members of all political ideologies to voice strong opposition to smear campaigns that demonize Americans because of their political beliefs.



*The Constitution Party made numerous calls to MIAC and was told an “officer” would respond to questions regarding this report.*



* No one at MIAC returned our calls.
*


The MIAC report states “rightwing” militia movements “continuously exploit world events in order to increase participation in their movements. Due to the current economical and political situation, a lush environment for militia activity has been created.”



The terms “constitutionalist” and “white supremacist” are often used interchangeably. 



Page 7 of the report warns law enforcement that “militia members most commonly associate with 3rd party political groups. It is not uncommon for militia members to display Constitutional [sic] Party, Campaign for Liberty or Libertarian material. These members are usually supporters of former presidential candidate:[sic] Ron Paul Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr.”



Issues of concern to those listed by MIAC as reason for law enforcement to label them “terrorists” include: Opposition to illegal immigration, implementation of RFID (radio frequency identification) and the planned merger of the US, Canada and Mexico (North American Union). The so-called “militia movement” contains people who own copies of the late Aaron Russo’s anti-tax documentary America: Freedom to Fascism. 



Members of a so-called “patriot movement” are described as being “dangerous” to police in a section of the report titled “You Are the Enemy” which states:



“The militia subscribes to an anti-government and NWO mindset, which creates a threat to law enforcement officers. They view the military, National Guard, and law enforcement as a force that will confiscate their firearms and place them in FEMA concentration camps.”



The MIAC report distributed to Missouri law enforcement is  a more virulent version of a similar report compiled by the FBI in Phoenix, AZ during the Clinton administration (see page one and page two of the document). The Phoenix FBI document calls “defenders” of the Constitution “right-wing extremists.” 



Constitution Party 2008 presidential and vice presidential candidates Chuck Baldwin and Darrell Castle, along with CP National Chairman Jim Clymer, are available to discuss this disturbing report and the severe limitations it seeks to impose on free speech.




Inquiries regarding this secret report may be made to: MIAC at 866 362 6422.



To see where citizens are encouraged to submit a report that someone could be a “terrorist” click HERE. 



###



Take Action Now!


1. Call the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce  and say you will not be visiting Missouri out of concern of being PROFILED. 
(314) 231-5555

2. Call the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission and tell them you won't visit Missouri because of "political profiling". (800) 325-7962

3. Call the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) and tell them their smear campaign is not acceptable.(866) 362-6422 and (573)-526-6115

----------


## AuH2O

My biggest problem with all of this, and perhaps also with the way that RP supporters and various other groups have responded, is the active separation from law-abiding, freedom-loving members of militias.

A militia is not a terrorist group.  Historically, and almost by definition, it is a group the exists in _defense_ of liberty, not in offense against those who seek to diminish freedom.  Certainly, it is correct to dissociate from violent terrorists and those who actively seek to cause harm.  Absolutely there have been members of the freedom movement who have perverted its fundamental principles to justify heinous acts, much like Islamic terrorists have perverted their own teachings to justify jihad.  But many patriots have been slaughtered in acts of terrorism  -- BY THE GOVERNMENT -- in what are commonly accepted, because of media bias and government spin, as raids on potentially violent militias.

Someone needs to stand up for those individuals who live a lifestyle dedicated to the defense of their own personal liberty, and, in a worst case scenario, the liberty of every single American, in the same way that the militias of our Founding did.

Living outside of "acceptable" social norms does not make you a threat.  In past cases, many of which are presented in the MIAC report and similar documents, the government is the sole aggressive actor, the sole threat to life, liberty and property, and the sole party who can be described as a violent entity.

While it is certainly right to assert that we are non-violent patriots, it is not right to concede to the MIAC, BATFE, or any other group that members of militias are necessarily the narrow manifestation of the broad reactionary brush with with they sought to paint us all.

----------


## tremendoustie

> My biggest problem with all of this, and perhaps also with the way that RP supporters and various other groups have responded, is the active separation from law-abiding, freedom-loving members of militias.
> 
> A militia is not a terrorist group.  Historically, and almost by definition, it is a group the exists in _defense_ of liberty, not in offense against those who seek to diminish freedom.  Certainly, it is correct to dissociate from violent terrorists and those who actively seek to cause harm.  Absolutely there have been members of the freedom movement who have perverted its fundamental principles to justify heinous acts, much like Islamic terrorists have perverted their own teachings to justify jihad.  But many patriots have been slaughtered in acts of terrorism  -- BY THE GOVERNMENT -- in what are commonly accepted because of media bias and government spin, as raids on potentially violent militias.
> 
> Someone needs to stand up for those individuals who live a lifestyle dedicated to the defense of their own personal liberty, and, in a worst case scenario, the liberty of every single American, in the same way that the militias of our Founding did.
> 
> Living outside of "acceptable" social norms does not make you a threat.  In past cases, many of which are presented in the MIAC report and similar documents, the government is the sole aggressive actor, the sole threat to life, liberty and property, and the only party who can be described as a violent entity.
> 
> While it is certainly right to assert that we are non-violent patriots, it is not right to concede to the MIAC, BATFE, or any other group that members of militias are necessarily the narrow manifestation of the broad brush with with they sought to paint us all.


Agreed, and well said. I do think that most here understand this.

----------


## AuH2O

> Agreed, and well said. I do think that most here understand this.


I agree that most people understand, but I disagree with the general approach.  I think too many have seen the report as a too widely-thrown lasso that ropes in Ron Paul supporters, and have been outraged at the inclusion.  I believe it is just as incumbent upon us to defend those peaceful, law-abiding, liberty-loving citizens  -- those who were primarily in the crosshairs of this attack -- as it is to defend the organizations and individuals who are tenuously associated but nonetheless fully indicted.

----------


## tremendoustie

> I agree that most people understand, but I disagree with the general approach.  I think too many have seen the report as a too widely-thrown lasso that ropes in Ron Paul supporters, and have been outraged at the inclusion.  I believe it is just as incumbent upon us to defend those peaceful, law-abiding, liberty-loving citizens  -- those who were primarily in the crosshairs of this attack -- as it is to defend the organizations and individuals who are tenuously associated but nonetheless fully indicted.


Yet, even these peaceful law-abiding militia members were associated with violent terrorists. The problem is still one of false association. Libertarians, peaceful militia members, and violent terrorists were all thrown in together.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> My biggest problem with all of this, and perhaps also with the way that RP supporters and various other groups have responded, is the active separation from law-abiding, freedom-loving members of militias.
> 
> A militia is not a terrorist group.  Historically, and almost by definition, it is a group the exists in _defense_ of liberty, not in offense against those who seek to diminish freedom.  Certainly, it is correct to dissociate from violent terrorists and those who actively seek to cause harm.  Absolutely there have been members of the freedom movement who have perverted its fundamental principles to justify heinous acts, much like Islamic terrorists have perverted their own teachings to justify jihad.  But many patriots have been slaughtered in acts of terrorism  -- BY THE GOVERNMENT -- in what are commonly accepted, because of media bias and government spin, as raids on potentially violent militias.
> 
> Someone needs to stand up for those individuals who live a lifestyle dedicated to the defense of their own personal liberty, and, in a worst case scenario, the liberty of every single American, in the same way that the militias of our Founding did.
> 
> Living outside of "acceptable" social norms does not make you a threat.  In past cases, many of which are presented in the MIAC report and similar documents, the government is the sole aggressive actor, the sole threat to life, liberty and property, and the sole party who can be described as a violent entity.
> 
> While it is certainly right to assert that we are non-violent patriots, it is not right to concede to the MIAC, BATFE, or any other group that members of militias are necessarily the narrow manifestation of the broad reactionary brush with with they sought to paint us all.


I fully agree with your sentiments. 

Time changes all circumstances, and I think a few people around here would have a problem with the mandatory nature of the militia of our founders... 

Hence my support of that big link in my sig  Perhaps their new front page better illuminates this topic:




> *Committees of Safety Public Policy Statement and Disclaimer*
> 
> 
> Committees of Safety is an organization dedicated to the individual and collective exercise of Americans freedoms of speech, association, and petitioning under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, for the ultimate purpose of revitalizing the Militia of the several States under the Second Amendment and other provisions of the Constitution of the United States and the constitutions and laws of the several States. 
> 
> Committees of Safety is not now, and does not intend to become, any kind of private militia, para-military group, firearms-training association, gun-rights organization, or other entity of like nature or purpose. And no individual should seek to become, or to remain, a volunteer for Committees of Safety who proposes that Committees of Safety ought to identify itself as some form of such a group, or that volunteers for Committees of Safety should engage in militia, para-military, or like activities as part of their association with Committees of Safety. Committees of Safety recognizes as constitutional Militia only such groups as have been formed and operate under lawfully mandated statutes within particular States.

----------


## AuH2O

> Yet, even these peaceful law-abiding militia members were associated with violent terrorists. The problem is still one of false association. Libertarians, peaceful militia members, and violent terrorists were all thrown in together.


You are absolutely right.  My point is that I see many arguments in defense of libertarians, constitutionalists, and the like, but few -- if any -- of peaceful militias.  It should be, in my opinion, standard practice for mainstream pro-liberty folks to stand up for the less-mainstream, though no less committed, patriots.  I guess I just feel that there has not been enough outrage about these good people being demonized, despite having read my fill of outcry over run-of-the-mill Ron Paul supporters being vilified.

----------


## AuH2O

> I fully agree with your sentiments. 
> 
> Time changes all circumstances, and I think a few people around here would have a problem with the mandatory nature of the militia of our founders... 
> 
> Hence my support of that big link in my sig  Perhaps their new front page better illuminates this topic:


I had never read your link, though I find it interesting.

I am not defending militias because I necessarily find them to be intrinsic to general public's liberty.  I am defending militias because clearly, whoever joins one believes it intrinsic, or at least potentially intrinsic, to HIS OWN liberty.  And what government ought deny a man the means to do whatever he deems necessary to secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity?  Isn't that principle immortalized in some old piece of paper I read somewhere? I don't think it was a terrorist manifesto, no matter what the MIAC might have you believe.

----------


## torchbearer

> I had never read your link, though I find it interesting.
> 
> I am not defending militias because I necessarily find them to be intrinsic to general public's liberty.  I am defending militias because clearly, whoever joins one believes it intrinsic, or at least potentially intrinsic, to HIS OWN liberty.  And what government ought deny a man the means to do whatever he deems necessary to secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity?  Isn't that principle immortalized in some old piece of paper I read somewhere?


extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.

----------


## newbitech

> I agree that most people understand, but I disagree with the general approach.  I think too many have seen the report as a too widely-thrown lasso that ropes in Ron Paul supporters, and have been outraged at the inclusion.  I believe it is just as incumbent upon us to defend those peaceful, law-abiding, liberty-loving citizens  -- those who were primarily in the crosshairs of this attack -- as it is to defend the organizations and individuals who are tenuously associated but nonetheless fully indicted.


I understand your point also but  I disagree that the proper approach is to defend the militia.  I believe the militia exists to defend against violent usurpation and abridgments of our constitutional law.  We have seen some signs of the government being willing to do this, but certainly not enough for a populist militia movement.  

I see this MIAC report/training as a slow steady abridgment that must be met with stiff broad based resistance.  The approach that is being taken seems to be all encompassing rather than focused on the lawful militia.  I believe the militia exists as lawful defenders of last resort that should only be used to meet violence with violence.  

Certainly the militia needs to have a voice in this matter but the simple fact is that all sides agree upon is that the militia can be anyone.  This MIAC report crossed the line by calling out a wide swath of groups as being potential illegal militias and in my opinion, there is no need to further muddy the waters between law abiding dissenters and law enforcement by focusing on the violent aspects of this report. 

We need to remind cops that regardless of someones ideology, we are still all presumed innocent until some evidence exists to remove reasonable doubt.  The paraphernalia and propaganda that the report mentions, including names and associations with groups is not evidence of any laws being broken and therefor cops should not conclude or attempt to further investigate a person based solely on those items mentioned in the training report. 

This is in fact protecting law abiding militia members.  The time to campaign for 2nd amendment rights is NOT when we are being accused of abusing those rights.  We should continue to be in an educational non defensive posture.  We need to work with law enforcement on a peaceful level and reject the notion that disagreements will be solved with violence.

Edit:  You said peaceful militias.  Think about that for a second.

----------


## torchbearer

> I understand your point also but  I disagree that the proper approach is to defend the militia.  I believe the militia exists to defend against violent usurpation and abridgments of our constitutional law.  We have seen some signs of the government being willing to do this, but certainly not enough for a populist militia movement.  
> 
> I see this MIAC report/training as a slow steady abridgment that must be met with stiff broad based resistance.  The approach that is being taken seems to be all encompassing rather than focused on the lawful militia.  I believe the militia exists as lawful defenders of last resort that should only be used to meet violence with violence.  
> 
> Certainly the militia needs to have a voice in this matter but the simple fact is that all sides agree upon is that the militia can be anyone.  This MIAC report crossed the line by calling out a wide swath of groups as being potential illegal militias and in my opinion, there is no need to further muddy the waters between law abiding dissenters and law enforcement by focusing on the violent aspects of this report. 
> 
> We need to remind cops that regardless of someones ideology, we are still all presumed innocent until some evidence exists to remove reasonable doubt.  The paraphernalia and propaganda that the report mentions, including names and associations with groups is not evidence of any laws being broken and therefor cops should not conclude or attempt to further investigate a person based solely on those items mentioned in the training report. 
> 
> This is in fact protecting law abiding militia members.  The time to campaign for 2nd amendment rights is NOT when we are being accused of abusing those rights.  We should continue to be in an educational non defensive posture.  We need to work with law enforcement on a peaceful level and reject the notion that disagreements will be solved with violence.
> ...


peaceful militia = use of force as defense.

----------


## AuH2O

> I understand your point also but  I disagree that the proper approach is to defend the militia.  I believe the militia exists to defend against violent usurpation and abridgments of our constitutional law.  We have seen some signs of the government being willing to do this, but certainly not enough for a populist militia movement.  
> 
> I see this MIAC report/training as a slow steady abridgement that must be met with stiff broad based resistance.  The approach that is being taken seems to be all encompassing rather than focused on the lawful militia.  I believe the militia exists as lawful defenders of last resort that should only be used to meet violence with violence.  
> 
> Certainly the militia needs to have a voice in this matter but the simple fact is that all sides agree upon is that the militia can be anyone.  This MIAC report crossed the line by calling out a wide swath of groups as being potential illegal militias and in my opinion, there is no need to further muddy the waters between law abiding dissesters and law enforcement by focusing on the violent aspects of this report. 
> 
> We need to remind cops that regardless of someones ideology, we are still all presumed innocent until some evidence exists to remove reasonable doubt.  The paraphenelia and propoganda that the report mentions, including names and associations with groups is not evidence of any laws being broken and therefor cops should not conclude or attempt to further investigate a person based solely on those items mentioned in the training report. 
> 
> This is in fact protecting law abiding militia members.  The time to campaign for 2nd amendment rights is NOT when we are being accused of abusing those rights.  We should continue to be in an educational non defensive posture.  We need to work with law enforcement on peaceful level and reject the notion that disagreements will be solve with violence.
> ...


I meant that "law abiding militias" -- which you referenced several times in your original post -- and "peaceful militias" -- which you referenced in your post script -- are the same thing.  But a law-abiding and peaceful group that does nothing inciteful is fully within its rights to defend itself against aggression.  

These libertarian principles apply to every community and level of self-affiliation; no country, state, family or militia is permitted to commit an act of unprovoked violence.  We cannot invade another nation unless they have attacked us, and we cannot fight a person on the street unless they are the aggressor.

However, having a stockpile of weapons, ammunition and foodstuffs does not an act of aggression make.  Nor does utilizing those resources in response to provocation a terrorist make.

----------


## newbitech

> peaceful militia = use of force as defense.



nah, I am not buying that argument.

regardless of the reason why force is being used, it is never peaceful.

----------


## AuH2O

> peaceful militia = use of force as defense.


A more succinct summary of my point.

----------


## torchbearer

> nah, I am not buying that argument.
> 
> regardless of the reason why force is being used, it is never peaceful.


I was telling you what it meant... and the author confirmed it.
I am a student of phenomenology. It would be to your benefit to take my word on it.

----------


## newbitech

> I meant that "law abiding militias" -- which you referenced several times in your original post -- and "peaceful militias" -- which you referenced in your post script -- are the same thing.  But a law-abiding and peaceful group that does nothing inciteful is fully within its rights to defend itself against aggression.  
> 
> These libertarian principles apply to every community and level of self-affiliation; no country, state, family or militia is permitted to commit an act of unprovoked violence.  We cannot invade another nation unless they have attacked us, and we cannot fight a person on the street unless they are the aggressor.
> 
> However, having a stockpile of weapons, ammunition and foodstuffs does not an act of aggression make.  Nor does utilizing those resources in response to provocation a terrorist make.


i agree with lawful militia, but you will have a hard time convincing most people that law abiding and peaceful are the same thing.  maybe its just semantics, but i do think the people who have been out in front on this issue have been very careful to frame the response appropriately.

----------


## AuH2O

> nah, I am not buying that argument.
> 
> regardless of the reason why force is being used, it is never peaceful.


His statement is a to-the-point summary of libertarianism in my book.  I may be overwhelmingly capable of violating someone else's right to life, liberty or property, but it is morally wrong to deprive someone of any of the above without provocation. You seem to be saying that having the _ability_ to use force is unpeaceful.  I wholeheartedly disagree.

----------


## newbitech

> I was telling you what it meant... and the author confirmed it.
> I am a student of phenomenology. It would be to your benefit to take my word on it.


I understood what he said, I just disagree.  If this were a case of the swat team laying siege to a Ron Paul supporters house with no warrant, and a bunch of us went down there with AR-15's to tell the government to back off, then yeah I agree that is the appropriate use and defense of militias.

However, we are talking about a training report that attacks basically anyone who doesn't agree with the political establishment.  There is nothing violent about the report.  While the implications certainly appear to be that law enforcement is preparing for such an event, I don't believe now is the time to start standing up for violently defending those rights.  Its just not the time for it imo.  This would be what I would consider offensive.  

But again, I don't disagree with the point, I just agree more with the way this situation is being handled without highlighting the rights and duties of the militia.  The militia would do well to keep a low profile here for the sake of allowing liberty to run its course.

----------


## newbitech

> His statement is a to-the-point summary of libertarianism in my book.  I may be overwhelmingly capable of violating someone else's right to life, liberty or property, but it is morally wrong to deprive someone of any of the above without provocation. You seem to be saying that having the _ability_ to use force is unpeaceful.  I wholeheartedly disagree.


well thats not what I am saying.  what I am saying is right now and in this circumstance is probably not the best time to remind cops that we have a right and ability to use force to defend ourselves.  I think that would only escalate the problem and work against the greater movement.

----------


## torchbearer

> I understood what he said, I just disagree.  If this were a case of the swat team laying siege to a Ron Paul supporters house with no warrant, and a bunch of us went down there with AR-15's to tell the government to back off, then yeah I agree that is the appropriate use and defense of militias.
> 
> However, we are talking about a training report that attacks basically anyone who doesn't agree with the political establishment.  There is nothing violent about the report.  While the implications certainly appear to be that law enforcement is preparing for such an event, I don't believe now is the time to start standing up for violently defending those rights.  Its just not the time for it imo.  This would be what I would consider offensive.  
> 
> But again, I don't disagree with the point, I just agree more with the way this situation is being handled without highlighting the rights and duties of the militia.  The militia would do well to keep a low profile here for the sake of allowing liberty to run its course.


Put on a poker face, problem solved.

----------


## newbitech

> Put on a poker face, problem solved.


heh, i'm playing poker right now.  But yeah that is the general sentiment that I am feeling.  Play this one close to the vest.  This is an obvious tell coming from the establishment.  Let them feel the love, but don't flinch.

----------


## pcosmar

> But again, I don't disagree with the point, I just agree more with the way this situation is being handled without highlighting the rights and duties of the militia.  The militia would do well to keep a low profile here for the sake of allowing liberty to run its course.


They did that during the last witch hunt. The Patriot Movement went underground. Several were hunted down and murdered.
OKC was not done my any militia.  I will repeat that.
The Oklahoma City Bombing Was NOT done by the Militia.

It was done to demonize the militia. 
And it worked. People shut up about restoring the Constitution.
That is what this is about, They are about to trash things and don't want anyone rising up to say NO.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> I had never read your link, though I find it interesting.
> 
> I am not defending militias because I necessarily find them to be intrinsic to general public's liberty.  I am defending militias because clearly, whoever joins one believes it intrinsic, or at least potentially intrinsic, to HIS OWN liberty.  And what government ought deny a man the means to do whatever he deems necessary to secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity?  Isn't that principle immortalized in some old piece of paper I read somewhere? I don't think it was a terrorist manifesto, no matter what the MIAC might have you believe.


Yes, that is why I agree with your sentiments. 

I'll go out on a limb here and state my belief that most of the groups calling them selves what-not are individual members of the un-organized militia, but any use of the term "militia" exposes the group to the dangers of romanticism (and it's ever present slander.)

This is why I strongly support the CoS in my sig as the only viable path to constitutional militia (and I hope all the paintball afficiandoes among us are getting involved. There is a time and place for everything...)

I'll, also, agree the discarded institution, "necessary to the security of a free state", is being disparaged; putting us all at unnecessary risk. But I think it is a separate issue from the MIAC memo, and any response we can attempt to manage.

----------


## AuH2O

> well thats not what I am saying.  what I am saying is right now and in this circumstance is probably not the best time to remind cops that we have a right and ability to use force to defend ourselves.  I think that would only escalate the problem and work against the greater movement.


I suppose I agree to a point about the PR implications of standing up for militias.  I guess I just feel a responsibility to defend those who defend our shared values.  I suppose most of these people are off the grid, and can't realistically can't voice their opposition.  Isn't it Christian to speak for those without a voice?

I'm being a bit facetious, and I guess I agree to an extent, I just wish there was a voice for those who are more easily demonizable and perceived to be less defensible -- other than "Let them fend for themselves."

----------


## pcosmar

> I suppose I agree to a point about the PR implications of standing up for militias.  I guess I just feel a responsibility to defend those who defend our shared values.  I suppose most of these people are off the grid, and can't realistically can't voice their opposition.  Isn't it Christian to speak for those without a voice?
> 
> I'm being a bit facetious, and I guess I agree to an extent, I just wish there was a voice for those who are more easily demonizable and perceived to be less defensible -- other than "Let them fend for themselves."


I gladly speak up. I AM A FRIEND OF THE MILITIA
I am unarmed
I am Infringed
I know that the vast majority are as peaceful as me., and very few are the threat that the whole are made out to be.
I hope for a peaceful restoration, a peaceful revolution.
I also know from history and from experience that our enemies are not peaceful.
I want them on our side.

----------


## newbitech

> They did that during the last witch hunt. The Patriot Movement went underground. Several were hunted down and murdered.
> OKC was not done my any militia.  I will repeat that.
> The Oklahoma City Bombing Was NOT done by the Militia.
> 
> It was done to demonize the militia. 
> And it worked. People shut up about restoring the Constitution.
> That is what this is about, They are about to trash things and don't want anyone rising up to say NO.


Speaking of OKC, I have a little story to tell about that.  You all may or may not know but I have been the victim of police profiling.  I know for a fact my name is in the database and the police have targeted and treated me differently because of it.  I am currently under misdemeanor probation for a reduced felony charge of battery on a law enforcement officer.  My brother is on felony probation for the same charge.  We stood up for our rights non violently on our front porch and were attacked by the police.  They turned around and fabricated a story against us.

This is not the first time my brother and I have been targetted.  About a year and a half ago, we were out doing area surveys in the process of engineering a fiber optic feeder route.  We were verifying public right of ways, measuring curbs, locating utilities etc..  Two county cops rolled up on us.  One in front and one behind.  They asked for our identification which we provided.  They came back from the squad car and started acting really sketchy.  

They wanted to see our company credentials.  At the time, I was working for my brother so only he had the company access badge.  We explained that I was still in the process of getting my badge.  They then asked if we had something else to show proof of who we were.  I told him that he had my id, what other kind of proof did we need?  They started asking us about our job.  We showed them the laptop and plats.  Still not satisfied, he said that residents in the neighboorhood had made complaints about possible terrorist activity in the area.  

At that point my brother and I were like oh $#@! man, these guys think we are casing the area for a bomb plot or something.  My brother grabbed his paycheck and showed the guy that we were legit and getting paid to do this work.  To this the cop replied, hey well now your talking.  He said, "Sorry to bother you guys, you know we can never be too careful these days."  I asked him to explain the complaint, what was the call about?  He seemed annoyed but said the neighbors said there was a bearded man walking around with a suspicious object.  I think he was referring to the measuring wheel.

I said hey no problem, do we look like terorist to you?  To my astonishment, he replies, "Well you never can tell these days.  You remember what happened in OKC right?  Those guys were a bunch of white guys."

So yeah, I have come face to face with this profiling.  Several times.  I don't even own a gun.  Trust me when I tell you its not the guns they are afraid of.  Its the truth that scares them $#@!less.

----------


## newbitech

> I suppose I agree to a point about the PR implications of standing up for militias.  I guess I just feel a responsibility to defend those who defend our shared values.  I suppose most of these people are off the grid, and can't realistically can't voice their opposition.  Isn't it Christian to speak for those without a voice?
> 
> I'm being a bit facetious, and I guess I agree to an extent, I just wish there was a voice for those who are more easily demonizable and perceived to be less defensible -- other than "Let them fend for themselves."


Thank you for understanding.  I just want to also reiterate that I understand your point and I don't disagree.  I really would like to see our country really digging down to our core beliefs and opening up this dialog about militias openly and without fear of negative sentiment in the LEO community.   I think once we secure the victory on this particular issue of the MIAC report, that will pave the way for more open and peaceful dialog with the police.  We need that to secure our freedom.  I need that to secure my freedom.  Thanks for bringing this point up.  It is valid and hopefully we can take this stand peacefully without having to call upon our militia friends to perform that duty.  If it does come to that rest assured my loyalties are with the defenders.

----------


## Liberty Rebellion

> I wrote Jay an e-mail today.  I hope it gets in front of him.
> 
> "Dear Mr. Nixon,
> 
> I am a Missouri native, born in X, raised in Y (W County), and attended Z High School in X, and Y Missouri State University.  You and I met, many years ago, in your office, when you were the state senator from my district, and I visited Jefferson City as a member of student government from Z.  My deceased mother was well acquainted with now Sen. X, a close colleague of yours.  In fact, I and my siblings just recently sold my mother's home in X County.  Missouri will always be close to my heart.
> 
> Today, Mr. Nixon, I am writing to you to tell you that my home state has shamed me.  A recent report published by the MIAC, part of a fusion center between the MHP and federal agencies, funded with Missouri tax dollars, casts tens of thousands of Missourians, and Millions of Americans as potential terrorists or criminals because they engage the political process outside the two major parties, support pro-liberty candidates, fly old flags, support the constitution of the United States, play paintball, or engage in strong advocacy of the 2nd Amendment.  This is reprehensible, irresponsible, and does nothing to improve the security of our great home state.
> 
> I encourage you to order the MIAC to issue an apology for their recent demonization campaign and to cease all similar profiling activities.  I for one will not enter Missouri again, or spend another dollar on a Missouri product or business until the Missouri law enforcement community is no longer being primed for hostility towards liberty advocates.  I am not alone in my convictions.
> ...


Sorry, but it looks like Jay Nixon doesn't think this is such a big deal (see video in following link)

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stori....4b83e394.html

----------


## pcosmar

That's their spin. We need to respin this.
Can't wait till Our report is released.

----------


## Minarchy4Sale

> Sorry, but it looks like Jay Nixon doesn't think this is such a big deal (see video in following link)
> 
> http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stori....4b83e394.html



Looks like Ill be staying out of Missouri until they have a new Governor who cares more about the safety of its citizens than the safety of the citizens servants.  Too bad.  I guess my family will have to come visit me instead.

----------


## tremendoustie

> nah, I am not buying that argument.
> 
> regardless of the reason why force is being used, it is never peaceful.


I think the idea is that they are currently peaceful, because they are not being attacked. They are peaceful because they do not instigate violence, and violence is not being instigated against them, at least to a anywhere near a sufficient level to warrant a violent response.

A person can be peaceful and own a gun. He hopes he will never use it, but has it in case he needs to defend himself, at which point he might not be so peaceful.

----------


## newbitech

> I think the idea is that they are currently peaceful, because they are not being attacked. They are peaceful because they do not instigate violence, and violence is not being instigated against them, at least to a anywhere near a sufficient level to warrant a violent response.
> 
> A person can be peaceful and own a gun. He hopes he will never use it, but has it in case he needs to defend himself, at which point he might not be so peaceful.


yep, i get that.  So on the one side, this MIAC training report represents the threat of force by law enforcement against law abiding citizens.  On the other side is threat of force by law abiding citizens in response to illegal action by law enforcement.  Both sides are still well within their rights as long as the force does not actually play out.  Law enforcement is warning citizens not to engage in this type of criminal activity or else and citizens are warning law enforcement to not overstep their authority or else.

One side needs to wise up and I think the liberty movement is that side.  Law enforcement knows we have guns, that's why they want to take them or at least cause people to question their own motives.  It is up to the liberty movement to stand firm and united and defend ourselves philosophically and intellectually first.  If law enforcement decides the standing up for the truth and liberty is worth attacking with force and a usurpation of the peoples power, then I have no doubt that their violence will be met with more than just a threat of violence.  

Until that time comes, I believe the people capable of forcefully defending themselves should use more peaceful ways of defending themselves including not being threatening or focusing on the right to defend themselves violently.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Whooo hooo, I'm jut getting back up to speed after my regular two week absence.

This is going to be good.

Commentary to follow.

----------


## pcosmar

> Whooo hooo, I'm jut getting back up to speed after my regular two week absence.
> 
> This is going to be good.
> 
> Commentary to follow.


YAY!
Missed you. This is a nasty piece of work.
But we are responding to it.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> YAY!
> Missed you. This is a nasty piece of work.
> But we are responding to it.


I've been getting regular satellite email updates from Mrs. AF (aka donnay) and listening to what coverage I can via shortwave.

I know everybody's on it, and rightly so.

But FFS, has everybody had enough yet?

----------


## sratiug

> I've been getting regular satellite email updates from Mrs. AF (aka donnay) and listening to what coverage I can via shortwave.
> 
> I know everybody's on it, and rightly so.
> 
> But FFS, has everybody had enough yet?


+1
I don't even own a gun, but this episode is making me interested in joining a militia.  I don't even think there is one around here though so I guess I'm safe.  Maybe we should start a pledge drive to all join a peaceful militia if this crap is not totally retracted?  I'm sure we're all on somebody's list anyway...

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> +1
> I don't even own a gun, but this episode is making me interested in joining a militia.  I don't even think there is one around here though so I guess I'm safe.  Maybe we should start a pledge drive to all join a peaceful militia if this crap is not totally retracted?  I'm sure we're all on somebody's list anyway...


Join the org in the big link in my sig. That is one of the best ways to counter this, and other, threats. First, because it just makes sense. Second is because they got a whole paragraph in the report, so an increase in membership would show TPTB that we ain't scared, and are going to continue down the lawful road of resistance to tyranny...

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Interview with Chuck Baldwin, LRP, about MIAC @ 1p est

*http://kcxl.com*

----------


## Gin

> Interview with Chuck Baldwin, LRP, about MIAC @ 1p est
> 
> *http://kcxl.com*


Thanks for the heads up Michael... :-}

----------


## Deborah K

I must admit I just couldn't wrap my brain around this.  The doc looks so amateurish to me.  But, if this thing is real, and the reason it exists is because some so-called militia killed one or more policemen, then I want details.  What militia, what police, when, and where????  Prove it.  

This seems like an attempt to further erode our 2nd amendment rights to form a "well regulated militia" in order to keep a free state.  They are attempting to paint all militias with the same brush i.e. 'a militia killed police'.  We have to preserve our right to form militias before they completely demonize the term and make it illegal.  This is where we're heading folks.

----------


## acptulsa

Glad you found it, Deborah.  The theory is that the SPLC actually put this together, and Missouri just put their name on it.  We're trying hard to make the state regret that decision.

But I sure wish there was proof that the SPLC did indeed do this.  I'd much rather go after the source...

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

Remember folks.

This revolution, calling for an end to the Fed, the IRS, the warfare and welfare states - you are calling for the end of a system that is fostered and run by people who would kill you for money.

Those fat cats, globalists, and whatever else you want to call them: they kill for money and power. 

It's hard for someone who lives on the principles of wanting to be left alone and willing to do the same to fathom or understand the kind of mind that wants power and money. 

We can marvel at this, these people, who have enough money to fly their helicopters over our traffic jams, don't have to eat the poison we are stuck with in our supermarkets, can live in their mansions in their private little islands.... I can go on.

What is it then, that while they have it all, they keep wanting to take and take and take. 

Understand that, and you understand what you are really dealing with. Some dare call it evil, others call it greed. It makes as much sense as a gambling addiction: "Why?". But nobody calls the personality of a plutocrat to be a disorder - yet. 

These are people who will start a war in a small country and kill tens of thousands so they can get an oil pipeline or take over the drug operations there.

These are people who will (and have) paid farmers to plow crops under to keep prices up, and the power of their fiat money,  while people starved to death (this was in the USA, by the way).

These are people who run a black op government, a pit of lies so deep they even lose themselves in it, for killing stealing, and to relish in it. 

So what makes you think you are automatically safe from them because all you did was politely ask for your freedom back? What makes you think you would not be a target when you demand real money - the kind that they cannot maintain power over? What makes you think you would not be demonized when you ask to keep what money you have when they rely on it to keep their system rolling? What would the drug dealer in your town do to you if you tried to get drugs legalized? Get the picture?

Their system is going bankrupt, their legitimacy is going with it. It's no longer just a few living thinking Paulians and libertarians in a world of brainless consumer zombies. 

There are a lot of theives and murderers in their smokey backrooms, getting scared. 

And they have good reason to be. 

And the so-called "militia" they are afraid of, they are more afraid of that militia than anything else. But not for what that militia can do. In fact, that militia, alone, cannot do anything. Even worse, that militia is not trained well enough - or not "well regulated". It's not "Bubba and his SKS" they are afraid of. 

That militia needs the activists, the legal eagles, and the philosophers. They need the militia. Most of them are the militia. The militia are also activists when you consider that war is diplomacy by other means. When the choice is comply and starve, or do not comply and be arrested or killed, then someone is going to die anyway. 

Because the 3 latter elements are what a real movement towards freedom needs. Militia are just guys with guns, mostly. Ask anyone who considered himself "militia" over the years or in some respect beyond what George Mason would say it is, and he will say he is not surprised at this MIAC fiasco.

But here is the funny part: most of them would have never put a Ron Paul bumper sticker on his car anyway. They know this game - the rest of you are learning it. This is an old game. There is a long list of people who did demand their liberty and got nailed to the wall for it.

You want to know what stands between the plutocrats and their power?

It's not the militia.

It's you. All of you.

If they can get you to run from, or abandon the militia concept, chase the gun owners out of the CFL and other groups, and have the rest of you constantly being apologetic for your views, starting every article or point with "Well, I'm not for condoning violence but....". Then you all will spend your entire lives, or the rest of it, going nowhere. One ignored petition after the other, one ignored - if not smeared and ridiculed - candidate after the other. And when you are old and gray, if you are allowed to live that long under socialist health care, you will look back to a life of failure.

Will you fail to realize it, like all those McCain supporters and useless GOP hacks who worked against us?

Or will you accept it?

But what, then, are the plutocrats most afraid of?

There is a punchline coming, so pay attention.

The "militia", I put it in quotes because I lean more towards the George Mason concept that it's everybody, but there are people who are above and beyond that concept, knows better than to engage the minions in the field.

Yes you see, the upper echelons of the militia, those people who have more than just a rifle and a voter registration card, know better than to engage the minions.


Here is the punchline:


They write these papers to make sure the minions are the ones thinking they are the target of this so-called militia, so they are led to engage them first, but on behalf of the plutocrats. The cops, soldiers, agents, have to live in this country too. Their kids are just as screwed as anyone elses. The MIAC document is more intended to screw with their heads than screw with yours. If it screws with yours it's just a bonus.

But the idea is to have them thinking they are the target, and the victim, and act in kind. What folly we have seen so far in this culture, where people are shot dead when unarmed for making a fast move like blocking a bright light in their face or reaching for drivers license.


You see, if YOU do your job, the militia can do it's job - which is to defend liberty. Right now, there is nothing for any militia to do, other than make the enemy think twice before going total tyranny. That is, they(the tyrants) have to take time to lie about what they are doing, lest the tyrants look like tyrants which is what they cannot afford to do. They need to run this country like a concentration camp, while we got people looking about for real camps. When you claim this country is a prison, people don't see barbed wire and guard dogs, so they think you are a nut, in spite of all the facts behind your points.

So why lump peaceful activists in with this? 

This is to keep you guys from being one and the same. This tactic was successfully done with gun control in the early 90s, as an example. When they managed to seperate the hunters and "golfers with guns" from the people who kept evil black rifles for the implication of the seconds amendment, it became possible to get that level of gun control they sought. For a short time, anyway. 

If they get the armed men, the riflemen, out standing alone as a seperate movement to be demonized, set up, and destroyed, just as they did in the 90s, they can finally destroy the militia that exists under 2A and condemn the rest of you to a lifestyle of having only enough freedom to complain about not having freedom. 

Some of you took the bait. On some of you that worked. 

Now, they want everybody engaging their minions, the brainwashed police mostly, by having their minions in a state of hyperventilating hysterics so much that they can cause an incident. Of course the militia, already knowing this game, will not take this bait. This was already tried over Ed Brown in NH. Remember how the marshalls fretted over the militia threat, then put agents out in the open with light armor and a nylon gazebo. But the militia in NH did not take the bait. Provokers unleashed all over the internet wailed an gnashed their teeth over them "not doing anything", as if they should just start the shooting,  but as scripture says, wisdom is always better than weapons of war. 

Now, if you all do your job, the militia can do it's job. And that job has two parts:

1. When the leviathan is starting to get beaten in it's own courts, in it's own media, and loses all credibility, it will, again as before and with the same expectation as in Patrick Henry's "War Inevitable" speech, do what it does best. Resort to violence. They will send SWAT, the good guys will send riflemen. Any other way, and it's just another "evil white guys with guns killing poor sweet innoocent law enforcement agents!".  This is so much the factor that they might produce another OKC, with the same suspiscious circumstances (that will persist in their media for 5 minutes, and then only be recalled by infowars and they will send an army of paid Sheer Coincidence Theorists to debunk the facts).
2. Once America is restored, the militia, as an enforcement wing under Article 1, Section 8, go after the plutocrats themselves and bring them back for their crimes. Yes, the fat cat will be hunted down in his compound somewhere, and brought to justice one way or the other. A real congress would see to the proper charges.  This is why the militia has no intention of going toe-to-toe with the minions on their terms and getting killed now. The minions, the cops, are not operating with all of the facts. They are like trained dogs. And that dog still needs to be fed. The problem is not the cops or the military, it's the system that fills their food dish. What we are seeing in how they act is exactly how people act when given authority without responsibility. History is full of such results, and rather than attempt to beat human nature (the failed endeavor of progressives), it's better to maintain a just system with strict rules for all parties. But the people behind it - the tyranny, win or lose, can expect to be living in an armed compound in Dubai or Bolivia for the rest of their lives. 


And there you have it. If the Paulians, Reaganites, CFL, YAL, etc do their job, there will be another 1775. Not because we want it, not because we want violence or bloodshed. I think Benjamin Martin, Mel Gibson's characer in "The Patriot" detailed these implications in particular in describing that this war would affect us in such ways as being everywhere, but it's freedom we want, from an entity that does not intend to give it. Asking niceley is merely a formality that makes you look good in the history books. 

The enemy kills for power and money.  They always have, always will. I need not have to describe then what you have to do to keep from being subjugated by them, and to keep your money.

----------


## Deborah K

> Glad you found it, Deborah.  The theory is that the SPLC actually put this together, and Missouri just put their name on it.  We're trying hard to make the state regret that decision.
> 
> But I sure wish there was proof that the SPLC did indeed do this.  I'd much rather go after the source...


SPLC?  Well that explains it.  So, the excuse that some militia was killing police officers is BS?  I'm surprised they're not going hot after the minutemen right now.  We've been a target of theirs for years.

----------


## pcosmar

> I must admit I just couldn't wrap my brain around this.  The doc looks so amateurish to me.  But, if this thing is real, and the reason it exists is because some so-called militia killed one or more policemen, then I want details.  What militia, what police, when, and where????  Prove it.  
> 
> This seems like an attempt to further erode our 2nd amendment rights to form a "well regulated militia" in order to keep a free state.  They are attempting to paint all militias with the same brush i.e. 'a militia killed police'.  We have to preserve our right to form militias before they completely demonize the term and make it illegal.  This is where we're heading folks.


This is a continuation of the assault that started in the 90s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbVPXk_2-Mg
Watch all of the congressional testimony. Do some research on OKC, the "official" story does not wash.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> I must admit I just couldn't wrap my brain around this.  The doc looks so amateurish to me.  But, if this thing is real, and the reason it exists is because some so-called militia killed one or more policemen, then I want details.  What militia, what police, when, and where????  Prove it.  
> 
> This seems like an attempt to further erode our 2nd amendment rights to form a "well regulated militia" in order to keep a free state.  They are attempting to paint all militias with the same brush i.e. 'a militia killed police'.  We have to preserve our right to form militias before they completely demonize the term and make it illegal.  This is where we're heading folks.


I've already gone through the line of fire deaths in MO for the timeframe. There are only two that names group affiliations (which sets a precedent) both were neo-nazis. 

JOIN CoS!!! Help rebuild the real "Organized Militia"

----------


## Deborah K

> I've already gone through the line of fire deaths in MO for the timeframe. There are only two that names group affiliations (which sets a precedent) both were neo-nazis. 
> 
> JOIN CoS!!! Help rebuild the real "Organized Militia"


I'm already a Minuteman!    I have a feeling our border security movement may very well morph into something more.....like maybe what the original Minutemen were.

----------


## CatherineBleish

MO Highway Patrol said someone from MO Highway Patrol authored it - we have a sunshine request to find out if that is true.....  2 murders by militia against mo highway patrol in the 80s.  One was not even a missouri resident.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> i must admit i just couldn't wrap my brain around this.  The doc looks so amateurish to me.  But, if this thing is real, and the reason it exists is because some so-called militia killed one or more policemen, then *i want details.  What militia, what police, when, and where????  Prove it.*  
> 
> this seems like an attempt to further erode our 2nd amendment rights to form a "well regulated militia" in order to keep a free state.  They are attempting to paint all militias with the same brush i.e. 'a militia killed police'.  We have to preserve our right to form militias before they completely demonize the term and make it illegal.  This is where we're heading folks.


+100

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> MO Highway Patrol said someone from MO Highway Patrol authored it - we have a sunshine request to find out if that is true.....  2 murders by militia against mo highway patrol in the 80s.  One was not even a missouri resident.


Here are the two:




> Trooper Jimmie Elliott Linegar
> Missouri State Highway Patrol, MO
> EOW: Monday, April 15, 1985
> Cause of Death: Gunfire
> Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at checkpoint. Neither Trooper Linegar or his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a Federal Grand Jury for involvement in a Neo-Nazi group accused of murder. 
> 
> 
> Trooper Russell W. Harper
> Missouri State Highway Patrol, MO
> ...

----------


## Deborah K

> Here are the two:


So basically, they can't prove their allegations and reasoning behind developing this "Militia Watch".  This just isn't good at all.

----------


## pcosmar

And just how many *unarmed* citizens have been killed by police?

I think they have us asking the wrong questions.

----------


## Danke

Chuck Baldwin was on AJ's show today and read letter they are sending to MO Gov. and MIAC.

http://www.infowars.com/baldwin-paul...uri-officials/




> Baldwin, Paul and Barr Send Letter in Opposition to MIAC Report to Missouri Officials
> 
> Infowars
> March 19, 2009
> 
> Appearing on the Alex Jones Show today, founder-pastor of Crossroad Baptist Church and presidential nominee of the Constitution Party for the 2008 U.S. Presidential election, Chuck Baldwin, talked about the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) report designating Baldwin, Ron Paul, Bob Barr supporters and Libertarians as terrorists.
> 
> Infowars broke the story on March 11 after Alex Jones received the MIAC document from an anonymous source in the Missouri police.
> 
> ...

----------


## acptulsa

> What is it then, that while they have it all, they keep wanting to take and take and take.


Good post, Dok.  The French have a phrase to describe these people.  It translates as 'sinister pigs' in reference to boars that will keep all other pigs away from the trough even when they're stuffed to the gills.

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

I just realized that the MIAC document is part of a 2 part attack.

The first attack was an army of bloggers sent forth on gun boards to smear Ron Paul.
For a good demonstration, check out AR15.com and see if you can find the old threads where any support for Ron Paul resulted in a swarm of posters - all seemingly online 24/7 - to smear, insult, and debunk. Last time I talked to a local arcommer, he bragged about the $100 he donated to Fred Thompson.

It was part of an orchestrated effort to make sure the guys with the guns would write off the campaign and the revolution as a bunch of kooks, lefties, etc. Especially with a site having such a large membership, full of police and military, and people having those black rifles (gasp, horrors!).

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> So basically, they can't prove their allegations and reasoning behind developing this "Militia Watch".  This just isn't good at all.


Well, not entirely unexpected... and I do think it is "good" that the issue is now in the open.

There is lots to do if you want.

1 - Write letters to the editor like:




> Recently a Missouri DHS “Fusion Center” - MIAC, circulated a memo intended to help officers identify terrorists. Among things it says to look for are: bumper stickers advertising mainstream political candidates/organizations, and copies of the US Constitution.
> 
> Please read that last sentence, again
> 
> Do those of you, who put the sticker of a presidential candidate on your bumper, expect to get profiled as a possible domestic terrorist? I suspect not. In Missouri, however, there is a state agency telling all of the state's law enforcement that this is what you may be. If visiting Missouri, do you continue to display the sticker, and risk being 'profiled'? Or, let your First Amendment rights slide by the wayside, and peel it off?
> 
> This is America? We profile people for advertising their favorite candidates, (in this case GOP and others)? Your's may not be on Missouri's list--at the moment, but if they get away with this, you could easily be next.  
> 
> As for copies of the Constitution--the document is the law of this land. And yet, if peaceful people carry a copy, they are at risk of being 'profiled' as potential threats?
> ...


I just got an e-mail from my local paper to cut it down to 250 (it is now) and they will print it 

2 - Visit www.libertyrestorationproject.org and see who to call and what you can do

3- Sign the CfL petition - http://www.campaignforliberty.com/ca...nspetition.php

4 - help make the KS-MO End the Fed the biggest rally of 4.25.09

hmmm... what else...

----------


## Doktor_Jeep

> Here are the two:


White Supremecists are not militia.

If that is their reason, then they have already revealed their politics, having their motivation being those two murders by people who are not militia.

----------


## tremendoustie

> Here are the two:


Wow, two officers killed over 20 years ago by white supremacists.

That totally justifies making a memo that goes after all of the millions of people who disagree with them politically, or don't support arbitrary government power 


Let's consider this logic: The nazi SS were police. We must therefore warn people who about those who are part of these dangerous police groups. When talking to their local crossing guard, for educational purposes only of course, people should be aware that they are part of the same kind of group the SS were, and therefore could throw you in a concentration camp at any moment.

On what planet does this make any sense at all?

----------


## acptulsa

> White Supremecists are not militia.
> 
> If that is their reason, then they have already revealed their politics, having their motivation being those two murders by people who are not militia.


Uh huh.  Now, how do we convince the public?  Remember, they put a hell of a lot of money and effort into associating us with racists last year.  Hard to undo.

----------


## Anti Federalist

The good Doktor just saved me a ton of typing.

Could not have said it better myself.

What are *you* prepared to do?






> Remember folks.
> 
> *This revolution, calling for an end to the Fed, the IRS, the warfare and welfare states - you are calling for the end of a system that is fostered and run by people who would kill you for money.*
> 
> *These are people who will start a war in a small country and kill tens of thousands so they can get an oil pipeline or take over the drug operations there.
> 
> These are people who will (and have) paid farmers to plow crops under to keep prices up, and the power of their fiat money,  while people starved to death (this was in the USA, by the way).
> 
> These are people who run a black op government, a pit of lies so deep they even lose themselves in it, for killing stealing, and to relish in it.* 
> ...

----------


## CatherineBleish

> And just how many *unarmed* citizens have been killed by police?
> 
> I think they have us asking the wrong questions.


I told them to their face that there are many more instances of police brutality on unarmed citizens than militia members against police.  And they acknowledged it as true.

----------


## acptulsa

> I told them to their face that there are many more instances of police brutality on unarmed citizens than militia members against police.  And they acknowledged it as true.


Get it on tape?

Tricky business convincing people that the militias are made up of 'us' and the cops work for 'them'.  As 'they' rob 'us' blind on the stock market and everywhere else it _is_ becoming more and more obvious, but they haven't really pushed across that tipping point just yet.

----------


## pcosmar

> I told them to their face that there are many more instances of police brutality on unarmed citizens than militia members against police.  And they acknowledged it as true.


Good for you.
Can't get the right answer unless you ask the right question.

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Get it on tape?
> 
> Tricky business convincing people that the militias are made up of 'us' and the cops work for 'them'.  As 'they' rob 'us' blind on the stock market and everywhere else it _is_ becoming more and more obvious, but they haven't really pushed across that tipping point just yet.


I will have to look at the videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/caaaaaathosaurus  no time now, but maybe.

----------


## CatherineBleish

MIAC report will be covered on KMBC Channel 9 news tonight at 5pm!  Tune in!  (central timezone)

----------


## acptulsa

> MIAC report will be covered on KMBC Channel 9 news tonight at 5pm!  Tune in!  (central timezone)


Yeah, Bryon posted that!

You guys are magnificent.

----------


## Deborah K

http://www.lpmo.org/media/releases/2...90315-01.shtml

Has this already been posted?  Didn't see it.  It's the MO state Libertarian Party's take on all of this.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.lpmo.org/media/releases/2...90315-01.shtml
> 
> Has this already been posted?  Didn't see it.  It's the MO state Libertarian Party's take on all of this.


Pretty limp, I thought.

And the hell?

Chuck Baldwin = "He who shall not be Named"?




> *The memo purports to outline trends in extremist militia activity and claims those involved in such activity commonly associate with 3rd party political groups. It went on to claim that militia members are usually supporters of Bob Barr, another third party candidate and Republican Ron Paul.*


That memo named an awful lot of people.

Now is not the time to defend the besmirching of _your_ name only.

"We must all hang together or we will most assuredly hang separately."

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Pretty limp, I thought.
> 
> And the hell?
> 
> Chuck Baldwin = "He who shall not be Named"?
> 
> 
> 
> That memo named an awful lot of people.
> ...


Wow, how lame... thanks for pointing that out

----------


## Cali4RonPaul

> sent to Glenn Beck


Whoa, Glenn Beck mentioned it today..

----------


## Liberty Rebellion

> MO Highway Patrol said someone from MO Highway Patrol authored it - we have a sunshine request to find out if that is true.....  2 murders by militia against mo highway patrol in the 80s.  One was not even a missouri resident.


Well that certainly seems like a "trend" of 3rd Party supporters joining violent Neo-Nazi extrem... errr I mean militias, just as a positive close of the markets  in one day foreshadows a bull market!

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/co...y/1269298.html




> Kennedy: Missouri state police have Ron Paul supporters in an uproar
> By BUD KENNEDY
> bud@star-telegram.com
> 
> 
> Right on schedule, the militia movement is back.
> 
> For the first time since the Clinton administration, bubbas in dime-store fatigues are hoarding guns and ammo, issuing paranoid predictions about one-world government and writing that President Barack Obama is "directly linked to Satanic teachings."
> 
> ...

----------


## pcosmar

This is getting some media attention. That's good.
We need to keep the heat on, or even turn up the fire. In the 90s they controlled the spin and painted the militia as crazy and dangerous. It was a massive smear campaign and it worked.

We need to control the spin on this. This was NOT innocent training material, and you can bet that it is not limited to Missouri.
They NEED a slap down, and once down they need to be kicked into submission.
They need to be seen as the evil ignorant $#@!s that they are.

----------


## pcosmar

Bump
Keep the heat on.

----------


## Natalie

Is this the biggest thread ever on RPF?

----------


## newbitech

> Is this the biggest thread ever on RPF?


i think bryan mentioned in a recent thread that RPF has over 2 million page views, or maybe it was posts.

This thread has nearly 30k page views and close to 900 posts.  This issue is definitely a hot topic.  The tragedy in the economy has certainly overshadowed the tragedy of the constitution being shredded.  

I think this issue has reminded a lot of people that the establishment is still full bore on its campaign to strip individual rights from the citizens of our once great country, economy be damned.

----------


## acptulsa

> I think this issue has reminded a lot of people that the establishment is still full bore on its campaign to strip individual rights from the citizens of our once great country, economy be damned.


Make that, economy be handy.  Remember Hillary's comment on crises being useful?  Sure would explain why they purposely trashed it.

----------


## qh4dotcom

Bump

----------


## CatherineBleish

> The tragedy in the economy has certainly overshadowed the tragedy of the constitution being shredded.  
> 
> I think this issue has reminded a lot of people that the establishment is still full bore on its campaign to strip individual rights from the citizens of our once great country, economy be damned.


The economic tragedy has left me with absolutely nothing.  They have nothing left to take from me.  You can't suck blood from a turnip.  I have nothing left to give. For me, the tradgeties go hand in hand.  I learned about the shredding of the constitution before they left me without an income and having to get my food at food banks.  And now they have left me with nothing but time and energy.  

And so I fight.

----------


## LittleLightShining

> The economic tragedy has left me with absolutely nothing.  They have nothing left to take from me.  You can't suck blood from a turnip.  I have nothing left to give. For me, the tradgeties go hand in hand.  I learned about the shredding of the constitution before they left me without an income and having to get my food at food banks.  And now they have left me with nothing but time and energy.  
> 
> And so I fight.


Have I told you that I love you?  You're amazing and an inspiration!

----------


## CatherineBleish

more news: http://www.trumanlakenews.com/conten...police-vigilan

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Looking forward to seeing the scan of this. Catherine, can you tell us more...?

----------


## CatherineBleish

"Subject: US Army Reserve Command Force Protection Advisory 09-01 (U/FOUO) November 22, 2008 - Planned Protests - "End the Fed!""

looks pretty informational in nature, I have not read in detail, yet.  lots of quotes from the website, what to do if they are verbally assaulted, increased security, close monitoring of the events, etc....  does not say anything about assumed potential for violence.

The name on the document at the end, "army reserve antiterrorism officer"  iiiiinteresting.   

Better scan will be up in less than an hour.  bare with me, sorry, I don't want to retype it all

----------


## tremendoustie

> Better scan will be up in less than an hour.  bare with me, sorry, I don't want to retype it all


You mean bear with me I think. 

Looking forward to the scan.

----------


## CatherineBleish

yeah yeah

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> yeah yeah


haha - thanks

----------


## CatherineBleish

bam: http://www.libertyrestorationproject...he-fed-rallys/

----------


## tremendoustie

> bam: http://www.libertyrestorationproject...he-fed-rallys/


Seems reasonable to me, the only thing I'm wondering about is, why the army reserve?

Are they really intended to be used domestically?

----------


## CatherineBleish

> Seems reasonable to me, the only thing I'm wondering about is, why the army reserve?
> 
> Are they really intended to be used domestically?



exactly.

----------


## torchbearer

> Seems reasonable to me, the only thing I'm wondering about is, why the army reserve?
> 
> Are they really intended to be used domestically?


the only military force not fully deployed elsewhere?

----------


## 50calray

Blah

----------


## LandonCook

Whoo!  Gadsden Week!

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

From FaceBook:




> Looking for great news?
> 
> One the ACLU is working with the Libertarian Party on this issue. We have support from Tony Rothert, Legal Directory for the Missouri ACLU. He's beginning to file sunshine requests on this report. Also fighting this issue along side us is the Liberty Resoration Project, the Campaign for Liberty, and the Constitution Party. And guess what? We are being heard!
> 
> Some Missouri Legislators have become aware of this and most are outraged. Our law makers are getting fed up with it. I've personally spoken with 8 of our legislators in Jefferson city... the ones who were aware of this report were all upset by it.
> 
> I personally had the pleasure of speaking to Rep. Chris Kelly (a democrat who attends many libertarian functions) and he mentioned that a budget bill is on the floor which includes funding for the Dept. of Public Safety and that he expects an amendment to be introduced to reduce DPS funding because of the MIAC Report. He also said that he put a call in to the governors office on our behalf.
> 
> So it's important that everyone calls there lawmaker and makes them aware of this issue and tell them to reduce funding to Public Safety because this report is profiling and you're outraged. In my conversations with about 10 legislators, I discovered that many of our lawmakers are still unaware that this report exists.... so LET THEM KNOW.
> ...

----------


## pcosmar

http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/03/fpiac-report.html
pdf here
http://www.ronpaulky.org/FPIAC.pdf



.jpg here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pcosmar/

----------


## A. Havnes

> Hello my fellow Patriots. 
> 
> I ran across this subject on another forum as well as a link to your forum. So I wanted to swing by and state my discuss for whats going on with my fellow Americans in the state of Missouri....the whole country for that fact. We all know this is a movement against free thinking Americans, people who believe in limited government and the Constitution. This is something that effects us all and not just our brothers and sisters in Missouri. 
> 
> Anyhow, if you got a writing campaign, I would more than be willing to write along side with you. Just let me know if there is anything I can do. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Ray 
> 
> ...


Hi there!  I'm not aware if there's currently an official writing campaign, but all members, whether in the state of Missouri or not, are encouraged to write, call, or anything else to let the people in charge know that we're very displeased.

Catherine has a project going right now; her link is somewhere in this thread.

----------


## acptulsa

What does 'preserv[ing], protect[ing] and defend[ing] the Constitution' have to do with being a show of armed force at an End the Fed rally?

Just damn.

----------


## Reason

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...litia-members/

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

The Joint letter from RP/CB/BB

----------


## pcosmar

Well, I wonder if that will get their attention.

I also wonder if a public response would actually change the SOP in the field.
We know they will say anything.

----------


## torchbearer

> The Joint letter from RP/CB/BB


CCed to their attorneys?

----------


## Johnnybags

Maybe they can spend more time chasing criminals and less time whipping the Fusion boys into a Gestapo like frenzy with state funded propaganda.

I love it, call it what it is "nonsense" or I would have called it the ramblings of some idiots.

----------


## Reason

Glen Beck says a statement was released by the MIAC saying it was a mistake to have the 3rd party references and it will be removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTGw4OpMkTg

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Glen Beck says a statement was released by the MIAC saying it was a mistake to have the 3rd party references and it will be removed.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTGw4OpMkTg


It certainly was a mistake. But if they think a retraction is enough at this point, I say, "too little, too late!"

Hmmm... maybe I'll spend an hour faxing the FPIAC doc to MO tourist bureaus now...

----------


## pcosmar

> Glen Beck says a statement was released by the MIAC saying it was a mistake to have the 3rd party references and it will be removed.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTGw4OpMkTg


I heard that, and expected as much. They will publish a new report but continue as if nothing had happened.
I would rather see a repudiation not just a retraction.

----------


## MelissaCato

Is there a PDF of this joint letter ?

----------


## torchbearer

> I heard that, and expected as much. They will publish a new report but continue as if nothing had happened.
> I would rather see a repudiation not just a retraction.


The only reason they are 'stating' that they are redacting it is because they got caught.

Think about how much $#@! we don't know...

----------


## pcosmar

> The only reason they are 'stating' that they are redacting it is because they got caught.
> 
> Think about how much $#@! we don't know...


No doubt, But history may hold some answers.
Posted this in another thread.
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointe...reportIIcd.htm




> The Committee finds that covert action programs have been used to disrupt the lawful political activities of individual Americans and groups and to discredit them, using dangerous and degrading tactics which are abhorrent in a free and decent society.





> Subfindings
> 
> (a) Although the claimed purposes of these action programs were to protect the national security and to prevent violence, many of the victims were concededly nonviolent, were not controlled by a foreign power, and posed no threat to the national security.
> 
> (b) The acts taken interfered with the First Amendment rights of citizens. They were explicitly intended to deter citizens from joining groups, "neutralize" those who were already members, and prevent or inhibit the expression of ideas.
> 
> (c) The tactics used against Americans often risked and sometimes caused serious emotional, economic, or physical damage. Actions were taken which were designed to break up marriages, terminate funding or employment, and encourage gang warfare between violent rival groups. Due process of law forbids the use of such covert tactics, whether the victims are innocent law-abiding citizens or members of groups suspected of involvement in violence.
> 
> (d) The sustained use of such tactics by the FBI in an attempt to destroy Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., violated the law and fundamental human decency.


It was related to actions taken during the Civil rights movement.

I heard some where that those that don't remember history,  are condemned to repeat it.

----------


## torchbearer

bump

----------


## Magicman

MIAC Report uses a broad stroke to label people with a dissenting point of view as Terrorist. According to the report, even Glenn Beck should be suspected. We must fight back. Don't let this happen in America. Please take action and make these calls. It's our country and the thugs running it need to know how we feel.

Take Action Now!
1. Call the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce and say you will not be visiting Missouri out of concern of being PROFILED.

(314) 231-5555
2. Call the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission and tell them you won't visit Missouri because of "political profiling".
(800) 325-7962
3. Call the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) and tell them their smear campaign is not acceptable.
( 866) 362-6422 and (573)-526-6115

----------


## acptulsa

Magicman, you forgot Branson.  St. Louis is pretty dependent on tourism, but it doesn't live and die by it.

----------


## CatherineBleish

Look at all the new PR (support from republican partY)

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=185596

ALSO: TONIGHT FROM 6-7PM CENTRAL BRYON WILL BE ON KKFI 90.1FM TALKING ABOUT THE MIAC REPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Anti Federalist

bump

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.securitymanagement.com/ne...rt-says-005461




> 04/02/2009 -  		A constitutional and international lawyer told lawmakers yesterday that the United States should dismantle state-run intelligence fusion centers, which have grown dramatically since 9-11 with the assistance of the federal government. Police and federal officials defended fusion centers and described measures being taken to protect citizens’ privacy and civil liberties.
>  Bruce Fein, of Bruce Fein & Associates and The Lichfield Group, compared state fusions centers to the Soviet Union’s KGB and East Germany’s Stasi and called for the United States to “abandon fusion centers that engage 800,000 state and local law enforcement officers in the business of gathering and sharing allegedly domestic or international terrorism intelligence."


more at link

----------


## werdd

17 more posts to make this the largest RPF thread evar!

----------


## fatjohn

Does anyone know any updates on this subject?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Does anyone know any updates on this subject?


Well, almost ten years later and some folks around here think stuff like this is a joke.

----------


## oyarde

> Does anyone know any updates on this subject?


Not for me , I have been banned from Missouri since 1988 .

----------


## Swordsmyth

> Not for me , I have been banned from Missouri since 1988 .


How did you manage that?

----------


## Danke

> Not for me , I have been banned from Missouri since 1988 .



Where haven't you been banned from?

----------


## oyarde

> How did you manage that?


I probably should not mention it in public ( I still have not pd the fine ) . I am currently in federal negotiations to have Missouri's star removed from the flag .

----------


## oyarde

> Where haven't you been banned from?


Other than there it was just one other place , a little hacienda , but I outlasted it , they tore it down and built a liquor store there I noticed last time I drove through there .

----------


## Swordsmyth

> I probably should not mention it in public . I am currently in federal negotiations to have Missouri's star removed from the flag .


I was expecting you to explain that it was somehow @Danke's fault.

----------


## oyarde

Most people have enough simple understanding to realize you cannot ban a National Treasure such as myself .

----------


## oyarde

> I was expecting you to explain that it was somehow @Danke's fault.


Had he been with me he would have been banned too .

----------


## Anti Federalist

///

----------


## Anti Federalist

Here we are, ten years later...

And SPLC is now a multi billion dollar juggernaut, not only fully entrenched within government, but also with trans national data and media companies, declaring who will even get a chance to speak.

Government surveillance is now light years ahead of this, frankly, amateurish and ham fisted profiling attempt. Government watches everything you do, say, spend, travel, work, walk, talk, eat, sleep, $#@! and in full co-ordination and co-operation with the same trans-national banking and media companies, acquires a dossier and _dang-an_ on your life that knows what you are going to do before you do it.

The political realm has now been taken over by avowed communists, no longer even trying to keep up any pretenses of who and what they are, who have made it their mission to remove "us" from the public square, by any means necessary, up to and including actual, for real, genocide.

Long gone RPF member Doktor Jeep describes in this post what had to be done.

And we failed to do it.

Love and "finding common ground" and "peaceful revolution"...all of that was hogwash, *bull$#@!*, weasel words for us to mutter to one another because we lacked the guts and will to do what needed to be done when there was a slight, oh so slight chance of victory.

And now we're, quite literally I believe, looking at the very real possibility of extermination at the hands of leftist mobs of Jacobins and Bolsheviks and wonder just what the $#@! happened.

Well...we failed...that's what happened.

And because of our failure, we, meaning "liberty folks" of the "old order"...we'll be lucky to survive what is coming.

God *damn* us all, myself included.




> Remember folks.
> 
> This revolution, calling for an end to the Fed, the IRS, the warfare and welfare states - you are calling for the end of a system that is fostered and run by people who would kill you for money.
> 
> Those fat cats, globalists, and whatever else you want to call them: they kill for money and power. 
> 
> It's hard for someone who lives on the principles of wanting to be left alone and willing to do the same to fathom or understand the kind of mind that wants power and money. 
> 
> We can marvel at this, these people, who have enough money to fly their helicopters over our traffic jams, don't have to eat the poison we are stuck with in our supermarkets, can live in their mansions in their private little islands.... I can go on.
> ...

----------


## Anti Federalist

relevant bump

----------


## Roxi

I've been trying to spread it around just to give you some rep. lol 

As a Missourian, I will never forget this. It changed me.  Thanks for keeping this relevant.

----------


## Roxi

> relevant bump


 I've been trying to spread it around just to give you some rep. lol 

As a Missourian, I will never forget this. It changed me.  Thanks for keeping this relevant.

----------


## angelatc

> I've been trying to spread it around just to give you some rep. lol 
> 
> As a Missourian, I will never forget this. It changed me.  Thanks for keeping this relevant.


ROXI!!!!! It's good to see you!

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I've been trying to spread it around just to give you some rep. lol 
> 
> As a Missourian, I will never forget this. It changed me.  Thanks for keeping this relevant.


Thanks, I reckon it changed a lot of people.

Being put right in the system's sights tends to do that to a person.

----------


## Roxi

> ROXI!!!!! It's good to see you!


 You too lovely!!

----------


## Roxi

> Thanks, I reckon it changed a lot of people.
> 
> Being put right in the system's sights tends to do that to a person.


spot on

----------


## phill4paul

> spot on


 Nice of you to drop in! Been awhile.

----------


## pcosmar

> Let's first confirm it.


Oh,, I remember those days...

I remember several threads actually,, on this subject..

A lot of folks calling hoax.

like Whiskey-Warrior-556,, in a way.

----------


## fedupinmo

> I've been trying to spread it around just to give you some rep. lol 
> 
> As a Missourian, I will never forget this. It changed me.  Thanks for keeping this relevant.



As a fellow Missourian , my brother was doing POST training a few years back, and met Col. Kearny of the MSHP, who had something to do with the MIAC Report.  Of course he told him in jest, "my brother has a Ron Paul sticker on his car". 
Of course I just sold that car to him... the sticker in question is the one I use for an avatar.

----------


## phill4paul

> As a fellow Missourian , my brother was doing POST training a few years back, and met Col. Kearny of the MSHP, who had something to do with the MIAC Report.  Of course he told him in jest, "my brother has a Ron Paul sticker on his car". 
> Of course I just sold that car to him... the sticker in question is the one I use for an avatar.


  That's just funny as hell. $#@!.

----------


## phill4paul

> Oh,, I remember those days...
> 
> I remember several threads actually,, on this subject..
> 
> A lot of folks calling hoax.
> 
> like Whiskey-Warrior-556,, in a way.


  There's a thread on WW-556. No need to bring him into this one.

----------


## pcosmar

> There's a thread on WW-556. No need to bring him into this one.


Naw,,
Still got copies of the Free People's response on my Flikr page.


It was the denial at the beginning of the thread.

----------


## osan

> God *damn* us all, myself included.



HA... God couldn't be bothered.

Besides, we did the work for him.

----------

