# News & Current Events > Economy & Markets > Stocks: Tesla IPO! Suckers any?

## WaltM

expected to lose money until 2012? Don't let you conscience be your guide!

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...c-cars-future/

----------


## Fox McCloud

Yeah...this is bad--you get a crap-ton of government subsidies and you STILL are on the verge of failing. 

In any event, it may be worth investing in, but given the price of their vehicles...I don't think this will bode well.

----------


## eOs

Lol definitely a long term stock to hold onto if you're willing to risk a significant amount of money.

----------


## fatjohn

This could certainly be one of the companies in which i'll put my money in when gold tops out. If they survive that long, that is. They are very innovative, check out the slick design of the model S, the technology is exponentially rising and the CEO is basically a genius. Plus with the economy improving in 5 years from now, oil will only rise, and electric is pretty much the only viable alternative out there. Hoping to buy it in a few years at 500 shares/ounce.

----------


## Jordan

> Plus with the economy improving in 5 years from now, oil will only rise, and *electric is pretty much the only viable alternative out there.* Hoping to buy it in a few years at 500 shares/ounce.


As much as Tesla's cars cost, the people who can afford them can certainly afford oil too, probably at any price.

I'm more interested in what Toyota/Ford bring out.  They're already well established, well financed firms with plenty of earned brand loyalty.  Plus, I'm sure their electric cars will cost just pennies on the dollar to Tesla's high end models.

----------


## WaltM

> As much as Tesla's cars cost, the people who can afford them can certainly afford oil too, probably at any price.


No kidding, people who buy hybrids today can afford the gas too.

People who drive veggie cars, not so much, but they risk messing up their car with the construction.




> I'm more interested in what Toyota/Ford bring out.  They're already well established, well financed firms with plenty of earned brand loyalty.  Plus, I'm sure their electric cars will cost just pennies on the dollar to Tesla's high end models.


yep. which makes why tesla started as an independent company a mystery

----------


## Cowlesy

Wonder how much of that cash is going to pay accumulated dividends on the preferred that likely got converted to common and if the bookrunners will exercise their greenshoe (if there is one) based on where the stock goes.

----------


## Bruehound

[/QUOTE]the CEO is basically a genius[QUOTE]

a genius would have never allowed himself to become ensnared into a government abyss.

----------


## buck000

> I'm more interested in what Toyota/Ford bring out.  They're already well established, well financed firms with plenty of earned brand loyalty.  Plus, I'm sure their electric cars will cost just pennies on the dollar to Tesla's high end models.


Interesting:  http://www.teslamotors.com/media/press_room.php?id=2509

I would have seriously considered the sedan (freakin' GORGEOUS + performance) if it and, more importantly, service had been available in TX.  I love the electric aspect, it is an American company, etc., etc.

The people who 'can afford oil' need to be the people who vote their $$$ in alternatives such as these, imho...

'Course, I wound up buying a big stonkin' V8 of a Hyundai Genesis, so don't listen to me.   (I figured it to be my last chance to have a luxe v-8 sedan, the next vehicle will be a gas-sipper/EV, and I generally ride a motorcycle to work)

----------


## Elwar

I've been following the electric car industry for some time. Tesla is a good company in that they actually understand and embrace capitalism. Any other electric vehicle company is usually all flash, putting together a prototype and then touring the country talking about how they're going to do great things, grid-tie, carbon footprint, etc. They get invited to all of the cool environmentalist parties, they get interviewed within the green echo chamber and enjoy the notoriety of it all...but then the company goes nowhere, they create an ugly monster that nobody would ever want to drive and it has no performance whatsoever.

Electric cars are inevitable. When battery capacity doubles every 5 years or so it'll go from an average of 100 miles per charge to 200 to 400, etc...getting to the point that you can drive across the country on just one charge.

----------


## Thrashertm

Update: the Tesla IP happened. According to Zero Hedge "Disaster"

Traded as high as $30, but settled at $17.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tesla-ipo-disaster

----------


## Jordan

> Update: the Tesla IP happened. According to Zero Hedge "Disaster"
> 
> Traded as high as $30, but settled at $17.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tesla-ipo-disaster


Let's put that in context...

ZeroHedge is full of conspiracy theorists so out of their mind they make RPF look sane.

----------


## Thrashertm

> Let's put that in context...
> 
> ZeroHedge is full of conspiracy theorists so out of their mind they make RPF look sane.


Looks like ZH isn't alone on this one

"Headline: Tesla shares slump below IPO price as investors bail

Investors who bought Tesla Motors Inc.s initial public stock offering last week thought they had a hot one.

They did -- for a day and a half. But it has been all downhill since.

Shares of the electric sports car maker plunged for a third straight session Tuesday as investors bailed out, pushing the stock below the IPO price of $17."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...elon-musk.html

----------


## Jordan

> Looks like ZH isn't alone on this one
> 
> "Headline: Tesla shares slump below IPO price as investors bail
> 
> Investors who bought Tesla Motors Inc.s initial public stock offering last week thought they had a hot one.
> 
> They did -- for a day and a half. But it has been all downhill since.
> 
> Shares of the electric sports car maker plunged for a third straight session Tuesday as investors bailed out, pushing the stock below the IPO price of $17."
> ...



Sure, the stock bombed after nearly *doubling* the value that Tesla assigned to itself.  The company literally doubled in value in 48 hours and you don't expect a correction?

Besides, Tesla generated tens of millions more than it expected with its IPO in one of the worst recessions in American history.  That's pretty freakin' good.

----------


## Thrashertm

> Sure, the stock bombed after nearly *doubling* the value that Tesla assigned to itself.  The company literally doubled in value in 48 hours and you don't expect a correction?
> 
> Besides, Tesla generated tens of millions more than it expected with its IPO in one of the worst recessions in American history.  That's pretty freakin' good.


Why are you so defensive on this IPO? What price did you buy your Tesla shares at?

According to this - Tesla priced the stock at $17. Now it's trading at $17.26

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-ceo-musk.html

----------


## Jordan

> Why are you so defensive on this IPO? What price did you buy your Tesla shares at?
> 
> According to this - Tesla priced the stock at $17. Now it's trading at $17.26
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-ceo-musk.html


First, I didn't buy any Tesla stock.  I posted this earlier in this thread:

"As much as Tesla's cars cost, the people who can afford them can certainly afford oil too, probably at any price.

I'm more interested in what Toyota/Ford bring out. They're already well established, well financed firms with plenty of earned brand loyalty. Plus, I'm sure their electric cars will cost just pennies on the dollar to Tesla's high end models."

----

I'm just saying that Tesla's IPO was not a failure and was not at all a "disaster."  They raised 27% more cash than planned.  

These are ZeroHedge headlines...they love to beat up any company that doesn't sell metals.

----------


## WaltM

> First, I didn't buy any Tesla stock.  I posted this earlier in this thread:
> 
> "As much as Tesla's cars cost, the people who can afford them can certainly afford oil too, probably at any price.
> 
> I'm more interested in what Toyota/Ford bring out. They're already well established, well financed firms with plenty of earned brand loyalty. Plus, I'm sure their electric cars will cost just pennies on the dollar to Tesla's high end models."
> 
> ----
> 
> I'm just saying that Tesla's IPO was not a failure and was not at all a "disaster."  They raised 27% more cash than planned.  
> ...

----------


## anaconda

Teslas are supposed to be incredible vehicles.

----------


## Dark Aerow

I see electric vehicle being the future, although I think it's a little to early to bet the farm on them...but who knows technology in this sector of the economy appears to be developing rapidly.  If Tesla survives the next few years (somehow) it might not be a bad investment.  Too risky for me though.

The technology has a long way to go before being commercially viable.  Hybrids are the logical stepping stone toward full on electric vehicles with small engines to regenerate batteries for long trips.

----------


## Bman

> I see electric vehicle being the future,


I'd say part of the future.  I still think the combustible engine will be the first choice due to it's ease if refueling.  I'm not saying putting a plug into an outlet is difficult rather it's time consuming and I'm not so sure what would happen if everyone gets home and plugs their car in at the same time to our power grids.

I think algae oil and hydrogen make for some interesting solutions.  They also with their fair share of problems, but conceivably easier to refuel which in my opinion makes them a more viable solution. 

The future is a mystery, I'm not sure we'll see a definitive answer in our lifetimes if one technology will prevail the was fossil fuels have.  Of course given the nature of governments maybe we will.

----------


## puppetmaster

Fuel Cell will win out very very soon.....before 2012... Tesla will never be profitable

----------


## Dforkus

> Why are you so defensive on this IPO? What price did you buy your Tesla shares at?
> 
> According to this - Tesla priced the stock at $17. Now it's trading at $17.26
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-ceo-musk.html


Yah, that's a real "disaster"

This isn't 1999, nobody expects an IPO to quadruple its intial offering price in 24 to 48 hours..

----------


## Thrashertm

> Yah, that's a real "disaster"
> 
> This isn't 1999, nobody expects an IPO to quadruple its intial offering price in 24 to 48 hours..


I guess it was just a disaster for the suckers that bought it at $30+ and held it.

----------


## Fr3shjive

I’m surprised by the hate for Tesla on here. They're an innovative company who are bringing something new to the table instead sitting around maintaining the status quo like GM and Chrysler.

There aren't any electric cars that can even hold a candle to the performance or range of Tesla's cars, not to mention their styling. 300 miles on 1 charge?! How many people do you know that drive more than 300 miles in a day, let alone, a week? The power and performance from their engine is comparable to any luxury car that the Model-S would be competing with.

Personally, I see this as the car of the future. 300 miles on 1 charge is their capacity right now but if this company performs anything like their Silicon Valley counter parts then we'll see vast improvements to this in a short period of time. 

The only real draw back that I see right now is not being able to travel long distances. It’s possible to do a 45 min charge at the moment but the infrastructure doesn’t support it yet. My only solution for long distance travel would be renting a gas powered car till the battery technology and infrastructure catches up.

----------


## Thrashertm

> Im surprised by the hate for Tesla on here. They're an innovative company who are bringing something new to the table instead sitting around maintaining the status quo like GM and Chrysler.
> 
> There aren't any electric cars that can even hold a candle to the performance or range of Tesla's cars, not to mention their styling. 300 miles on 1 charge?! How many people do you know that drive more than 300 miles in a day, let alone, a week? The power and performance from their engine is comparable to any luxury car that the Model-S would be competing with.
> 
> Personally, I see this as the car of the future. 300 miles on 1 charge is their capacity right now but if this company performs anything like their Silicon Valley counter parts then we'll see vast improvements to this in a short period of time. 
> 
> The only real draw back that I see right now is not being able to travel long distances. Its possible to do a 45 min charge at the moment but the infrastructure doesnt support it yet. My only solution for long distance travel would be renting a gas powered car till the battery technology and infrastructure catches up.


The main problem with Tesla is receives a lot of subsidies from the US govt.

----------


## Fr3shjive

> The main problem with Tesla is receives a lot of subsidies from the US govt.


Thats pretty much a given for anybody in the car business. You're operating at a disadvantage if you're not getting subsidies from the govt. 

Im not condoning it but it is what it is. Either way, I think Tesla is the auto company of the future. While the big three are hanging on to the 100 year old technology of the internal combustion engine Tesla will continue to innovate their batteries and the technology they use in their cars. Think the innovation of Silicon valley applied to the auto industry. 

The big 3 can barely survive on their own with out govt bail outs. With Tesla ready to change the entire auto industry Im pretty sure they'll be a thing of the past.

----------


## Kludge

Why did they use LiIon instead of LiPo?

LiPo offers a much higher charge (re: amps, however - can't match mAh generally) for the volume and costs roughly the same cost, but this can be corrected simply by operating the batteries in parallel. I understand they're difficult (relatively............. but not really -- a reliable LiIon charger costs about $20, but a reliable LiPo charger costs about $60+ ---- This is consumer-grade batteries, though) to charge, but I don't really understand the advantages of using a LiIon battery for a car.

Li-Ion is an awkward old technology I think most would agree is on its way out. Admittedly, I'm actually having trouble finding a reasonably-priced power inverter for my LiPo batteries (not that it's relevant), but I can't imagine why anyone would prefer LiIon, esp. for something torque-hungry like a car.

----------


## s35wf

I think we might be able to expect alot more affordable cars than tesla has in mind.

Check out these guys:http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/

----------


## Carson

If they can get them out soon they will sell a lot around the San Francisco bay area alone.

It is an idea thats time has come. They have the range for most commuters and we have a lot of room on the power grid late at night to have it charged up for the next day.

They are located in Fremont, California in the old NUMMI plant .

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_1...nclick_check=1

I wish them all the luck.

----------


## Thrashertm

> Thats pretty much a given for anybody in the car business. You're operating at a disadvantage if you're not getting subsidies from the govt. 
> 
> Im not condoning it but it is what it is. Either way, I think Tesla is the auto company of the future. While the big three are hanging on to the 100 year old technology of the internal combustion engine Tesla will continue to innovate their batteries and the technology they use in their cars. Think the innovation of Silicon valley applied to the auto industry. 
> 
> The big 3 can barely survive on their own with out govt bail outs. With Tesla ready to change to the entire auto industry Im pretty sure they'll be a thing of the past.


As we have seen with Microsoft vs. everyone in the operating system space, there's so much more to consider than mere technical superiority.

----------


## specsaregood

> My only solution for long distance travel would be renting a gas powered car till the battery technology and infrastructure catches up.


Really?  I'd think designing it so you could do quick swaps of them at "filling stations", just like exchanging your propane tank.

----------


## Fr3shjive

> If they can get them out soon they will sell a lot around the San Francisco bay area alone.
> 
> It is an idea thats time has come. They have the range for most commuters and we have a lot of room on the power grid late at night to have it charged up for the next day.
> 
> They are located in Fremont, California in the old NUMMI plant .
> 
> http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_1...nclick_check=1
> 
> I wish them all the luck.


I agree. I'm really failing to see the disadvantages aside from long distance driving and in that case I can just rent a car.

The $50k price tag is definitely a barrier for most people but they're planning to have a $20k-30k version released shortly after the 50k version.

----------


## Fr3shjive

> Really?  I'd think designing it so you could do quick swaps of them at "filling stations", just like exchanging your propane tank.


That's a possibility. Im not really sure how they're going to approach it. 

The thing is that those batteries cost $7k+ and I dont think people are going to be so willing to give them up if there's a chance they'll get one in return that is on its last leg.

----------


## Carson

> I agree. I'm really failing to see the disadvantages aside from long distance driving and in that case I can just rent a car.
> 
> The $50k price tag is definitely a barrier for most people but they're planning to have a $20k-30k version released shortly after the 50k version.



I'm with you on both of those points. 

I would guess 90% of my driving is to work and back and local trips.

The price is steep for me. So steep it isn't costing me any more to look and dream of this little commute buggy.



Or maybe...




P.S. I think I've heard tell of some charging times down about how long it would take to stop and eat somewhere, but I could have hallucinated it.

----------


## Fr3shjive

Just saw a video of Tesla motors CEO Elon Musk. Apparently he's got libertarian views too. I really think this is the car of the future. The Model S is set to start shipping in oct '11. Ill definitely be getting one. 

YouTube - 10 Questions for Elon Musk

----------


## Cowlesy

Tesla Motors is knocking the cover off the ball.

http://www.teslamotors.com/about/pre...-exceed-target




> Tesla Model S Sales Exceed Target
>  Profitability Guidance Amended Upward; 40 kWh Battery Cancelled 
> Sunday, March 31, 2013
> 
> Tesla Motors announced today that sales of its Model S vehicle exceeded the target provided in the mid-February shareholder letter. As customers who note their Model S serial number this weekend will realize, vehicle deliveries (sales) exceeded 4,750 units vs. the 4,500 unit prior outlook. As a result, Tesla is amending its Q1 guidance to full profitability, both GAAP and non-GAAP.
> 
>  “I am incredibly proud of the Tesla team for their outstanding work. There have been many car startups over the past several decades, but profitability is what makes a company real. Tesla is here to stay and keep fighting for the electric car revolution,” said Elon Musk, Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO. “I would also like to thank our customers for their passionate support of the company and the car. Without them, we would not be here.”
> 
>  Also being announced today is that the small battery option for the Model S will not enter production, due to lack of demand. Only four percent of customers chose the 40 kWh battery pack, which is not enough to justify production of that version. Customers are voting with their wallet that they want a car that gives them the freedom to travel long distances when needed.
> ...


Stock is up over 10% today.  It's over doubled since the IPO.

----------


## tasteless

LOL i saw this topic title and said to myself dang I want in, but then I saw the date

----------


## Cowlesy

> LOL i saw this topic title and said to myself dang I want in, but then I saw the date


I bought shares a month or two ago.  Talk about getting lucky with timing....

----------


## MRK

> I bought shares a month or two ago.  Talk about getting lucky with timing....


I've done a lot of independent contracting work for dealerships (Ford, Toyota, Honda, Chrysler) and I thought the price point for their new model was awesome. That was immediately what I thought when it was announced last year (ish?).

Although in my case I still wouldn't make me want to buy one though lol. I have no reason to upgrade my perfectly good 2008 altima and probably wont for another 5 years at the earliest. Although at the rate I'm using it lately it might last be another 15 years given that I'm currently living in a downtown and working at home.

----------


## Cowlesy

> I've done a lot of independent contracting work for dealerships (Ford, Toyota, Honda, Chrysler) and I thought the price point for their new model was awesome. That was immediately what I thought when it was announced last year (ish?).
> 
> Although in my case I still wouldn't make me want to buy one though lol. I have no reason to upgrade my perfectly good 2008 altima and probably wont for another 5 years at the earliest. Although at the rate I'm using it lately it might last be another 15 years given that I'm currently living in a downtown and working at home.


What sold me on it were owner's exclamations at how much they love the car.  There will always be a market for products people like owning.  Secondly, I spent time searching the internet looking for people who hate the car and want to get rid of it.  You will not find very many of them, which gave me more faith in the product.  Finally, the capital structure of the company is based around a $400M government loan with a ridiculously low interest rate (my opinion on the rate).  So as long as people love the product, they're making more (growth), they can continue to finance the company's growth and are turning a GAAP profit, I figured it was time to buy some shares.

I'd love to own one someday (city dweller here, so no car) so as not to send more cash to those jerks in the Middle East.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

A nice 15% jump on that news.

----------


## Carson

I've seen two before.

----------


## BamaAla

Thought about it, but the car sucked on Top Gear; I passed.

----------


## Cowlesy

Not sure why the stock is up so much today, maybe squeezing out some of the short interest?

https://www.google.com/finance?q=tsla

----------


## Zippyjuan

Perhaps this news?
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/tes...nditional.html




> *Tesla Motors Offers Unconditional Warranty for Model S Battery* 
> 
> Tesla Motors has announced new measures aimed at improving its client service, including offering "unconditional warranty" for the battery pack of the Model S sedan. 
> Tesla says all damage to the battery is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the battery at a low state of charge for years on end. Of course, in case the battery pack is opened by non-Tesla personnel or there’s intentional abuse, the warranty is no longer valid, as is the case if the car is involved in a collision. 
> 
> Putting aside the scenarios mentioned above, Tesla says the battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred. 
> 
> Tesla Motors also announced that it is building a fleet of top of the line Model S loaners for customers whose cars are in service. The loaner cars will have all the best features and options and will be available for immediate purchase at a price that is lower by 1 percent per month of age and $1 per mile. The loaner fleet will also include Tesla Roadster sports cars. 
> 
> ...

----------


## Cowlesy

> Perhaps this news?
> http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/tes...nditional.html


I saw that news last week, and the stock declined on it (probably because it sounds like it could take a bite out of earnings when we get earnings). 

It just feels like people are tired of being short since the $30 range, and probably buying protection on the top side while others continue to push the price higher.  What goes up, will likely come down at some point.  I am sure I will time my exit poorly.

----------


## Zippyjuan

More news: (some older, some new).

http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/te...y-volt-129243/




> *Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA): Even This Automaker Is Outselling the Chevy Volt*
> 
> It's true: Punchy start-up Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) is already outselling the much-hyped Chevy Volt.
> 
> Earlier this month, Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) said it had exceeded its own first-quarter sales target, delivering "at least 4,750" examples of its all-electric Model S luxury sedan to customers.
> 
> Contrast that with General Motors Company (NYSE:GM), which sold 4,421 of its plug-in hybrid Volts in North America during the first quarter, according to a Bloomberg report. Nissan (OTCBB:NSANY)'s electric Leaf took third place in the plug-in rankings with 3,695 sales.
> 
> That's a great story for Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA), which is succeeding with its sleek and powerful (and expensive) electric coupe against considerable odds. But what does it say about GM? Is it time for the Volt to be grounded?
> ...


http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/te...st-bet-129995/




> *Tesla is turning to profitability*
> 
> One of its peers, electric car maker Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) is headed by entrepreneur Elon Musk, the co-founder of Paypal. At the beginning of 2011, Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) got support from the U.S. Government with a low interest loan of $465 million. This loan is cheap, carrying only 1-1.2% interest. Thus, it has been giving Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) a lot of advantages to develop its electric cars. As of December 2012, Tesla booked around $125 million in total stockholders’ equity, $202 million in cash and around $401 million in long-term debt.
> 
> For the past five years, Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) has posted increasing losses, from $52 million in 2008 up to $266 million in 2012. Tesla has long expected that the Model S could lead the company to a profitable position soon. After years of losses, Tesla finally announced that it turned profitable in the first quarter of 2013 with more Model S cars sold than it had previously expected. For the full year, Musk estimated that the company would deliver around 20,000 Model S battery-powered sedans. The first quarter profitability news has sent the shares up as much as 16% in one trading day, and Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) has kept going up to reach as high as $52 per share. Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) is currently valued quite expensively, at 47 times its book value.
> 
> Read more at http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/te...s8vgEP52s0T.99

----------


## Athan

> expected to lose money until 2012? Don't let you conscience be your guide!
> 
> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...c-cars-future/


It is a long term stock. I would invest in Tesla if I had the money.

----------


## Carson

> It is a long term stock. I would invest in Tesla if I had the money.


This seems to me exactly what a stock investment should be. Or was meant to be. People risking there money on an idea and putting up the cash to see it through to production. These are the people that usually make out pretty well...or not.

Like I mentioned before, I pass by the Tesla Plant almost every day. For several months now the parking lot has been full of workers cars. They are running ads to find more help. I'm not really seeing many Tesla's on the road yet. I'm pretty old though. They could be all around me. When I was young I knew about every car out there. I saw the Mustangs emerge that just lit up the roadway with youth, vigor, and design. I think it is in the works to happen again with Tesla's.  

From what I'm seeing I just know a whole lot of inventory is building and ready to explode out of the plant onto the roadway. Even as bad as the economy and the low times for the spirit of our country can't contain it, I don't think.

If you're one of the ones that put up the cash to make this happen I'm thinking your going to deserve high rewards in the future. If you are thinking of getting in some sort of dividend preferred stock may bethe way to go. I don't know much about it but I'm thinking if I was going to get in I would ask a broker that knows about such things.


Like I said, I've seen two before!

----------


## axiomata

I toured the Googleplex in Mountain View and there's certainly a lot of Tesla's there.

----------


## Carson

> I toured the Googleplex in Mountain View and there's certainly a lot of Tesla's there.


The parking lot is a good thing to look at when applying for a job. Some times the question can be, "Is there *a* parking spot." Some times you can hit a jackpot and know your going to be in good company by what is parked. Maybe some of it might rub off.

----------


## axiomata

> The parking lot is a good thing to look at when applying for a job. Some times the question can be, "Is there *a* parking spot." Some times you can hit a jackpot and know your going to be in good company by what is parked. Maybe some of it might rub off.


The complementary charging stations right next to the handicap spots are another perk.

----------


## Cowlesy

Tesla knocks the cover off the ball with earnings.

$562 Revenue vs $500 est.
$0.12 adjusted eps vs. $0.04 est.

well done, Elon.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-q1-earnings-2013-5

----------


## Barrex

He he .. We in Croatia got another one. It is called "*CONCEPT ONE*". Fastest electric car in the world.



 

and his "gay-ish" brother:

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> Tesla knocks the cover off the ball with earnings.
> 
> $562 Revenue vs $500 est.
> $0.12 adjusted eps vs. $0.04 est.
> 
> well done, Elon.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-q1-earnings-2013-5


Up 22% in after hours.

----------


## Cowlesy

> Up 22% in after hours.


It mostly carried over into today, up around 20%.

----------


## Zippyjuan

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/b...1-477a4b1c35b2




> *Tesla Model S gets Consumer Reports' top score*
> 
> By TOM KRISHER
> From Associated Press
> May 09, 2013 12:39 PM EDT 
> DETROIT (AP) — The Tesla Motors Inc. Model S electric car has tied an older Lexus for the highest score ever recorded in Consumer Reports magazine's automotive testing.
> 
> The Model S, which starts at $62,400 after a federal tax credit, scored 99 points on a scale of 100 in the magazine's battery of tests.
> 
> ...

----------


## Cowlesy

Sorry, I have to given it's now up 30%!!!!!! (at 3:13pm est)

----------


## Cowlesy

Tesla announces a secondary offering of common stock, also doing an offering of convertible notes.  Intends to pay off Department of Energy loan.  Elon Musk (Founder) to participate for $100 million.

http://www.teslamotors.com/about/pre...e-senior-notes




> Tesla Motors Announces Offerings of Common Stock and Convertible Senior Notes
>  Elon Musk to Lead Common Stock Offering; Tesla Intends to Pay Off Department of Energy Loan with Interest 
> Wednesday, May 15, 2013
> 
> Palo Alto, CA – May 15, 2013 — Tesla Motors, Inc. (NASDAQ: TSLA) announced today offerings of 2,703,027 shares of common stock and $450 million aggregate principal amount of convertible senior notes due 2018 in concurrent underwritten registered public offerings. In addition, Tesla has granted the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to an additional 405,454 shares of common stock and $67.5 million in aggregate principal amount of the notes.
> 
> In addition, Elon Musk, Tesla’s Chief Executive Officer and cofounder, intends to purchase shares of common stock at the same public offering price for an aggregate purchase price of $100 million. Of this amount, approximately $45 million would be purchased in the common stock offering, and approximately $55 million would be purchased directly from Tesla in a subsequent private placement due to the waiting period requirements of the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act.
> 
> The aggregate gross proceeds of the offerings, including the options granted to the underwriters, and the private placement is expected to be approximately $830 million. Tesla intends to use the net proceeds from the offerings to prepay Tesla’s outstanding loan from the United States Department of Energy, pay the cost of convertible note hedge transactions and for general corporate purposes.
> ...


I'm actually a little worried about this, because, why pay back the Department of Energy loan with it's ridiculously below market interest rate?

----------


## muh_roads

I wish Tesla the best.  I think Elon Musk is a good person for investing everything he has into this.  I don't like Tesla getting Government grants but what can you do?  It is better than giving it to Big Oil.  We need to get the $#@! away from oil.

----------


## Cowlesy

> I wish Tesla the best.  I think Elon Musk is a good person for investing everything he has into this.  I don't like Tesla getting Government grants but what can you do?  It is better than giving it to Big Oil.  We need to get the $#@! away from oil.


I agree.  But at least he paid us back with interest (after this fundraising).

----------


## Jordan

> Tesla announces a secondary offering of common stock, also doing an offering of convertible notes.  Intends to pay off Department of Energy loan.  Elon Musk (Founder) to participate for $100 million.
> 
> http://www.teslamotors.com/about/pre...e-senior-notes
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little worried about this, because, why pay back the Department of Energy loan with it's ridiculously below market interest rate?


I haven't looked into the 10K/Qs recently, but from what I read, I heard the DoE wanted a faster payment schedule on outstanding loans. Could be wrong, because I know for a fact that Ford is taking its sweet time to repay its ultra-low interest DoE money. Either way, raising capital from the equity markets is...well, pretty much recognizing that the equity is way too expensive.

----------


## brushfire

LOL... I'd just watched a documentary (series called "Risk Takers") on netflix, regarding Musk.

Pretty good - I dont know how precise it was, but entertaining none the less.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Up another 13%. 

Cowlesy, you now have no excuse to not max out on liberty candidates the next couple election cycles.

----------


## robertwerden

I bought at $16.75 IPO 28 shares. Holy $#@! now

----------


## fatjohn

Could eat my hat. Following musk and tesla for alot longer than the ipo, didnt go in because i didnt like the macro economic story. Fml.

----------


## Carson

I just saw a story that sort of hit me where my *Tesla* is. 

It's a story over on Fark today. On the surface it sounds bad. In reality and down the road, I'm not sure. One thing I always knew, the world is a tough town for business now. 


*"Given that everyone has been using Tesla as an example of a sound government investment and a truly great company, it turns out they've cost taxpayers $1 billion and are even worse than Solyndra"*


The story. Doesn't read as bad as the Fark headline.

http://www.slate.com/articles/busine...nvestment.html



The Fark comments. Probably reads much worse than anything either of us could come up with...still some may crack you up. Does me. If I can wade through it;

http://www.fark.com/comments/7773421...-than-Solyndra

----------


## muh_roads

> I agree.  But at least he paid us back with interest (after this fundraising).


It'll pay you back by unraveling the petrodollar.  Just make sure you are diversified into the correct scarce things before the $#@! hits.

----------


## Seraphim

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...s-scary-answer

Don't beat yourself up; Tesla is in big trouble. It's not viable, long term.




> Could eat my hat. Following musk and tesla for alot longer than the ipo, didnt go in because i didnt like the macro economic story. Fml.

----------


## Carson

"I saw me four of um afore."


I spotted a nice clean looking car at a stop light. It was waiting to turn left across my bow. The thing I first noticed was how clean the side of the car was. Every thing was flush and aerodynamic. I'm not sure exactly how the door handles work. They just looked like a rectangular chrome pad. Maybe it pushes mechanically. Maybe its a button. It also had an extra turn signal up just in front of the front door that looked flush.

Oh here.



Took me a while to realize it was a *Tesla*.

----------


## axiomata

> "I saw me four of um afore."
> 
> 
> I spotted a nice clean looking car at a stop light. It was waiting to turn left across my bow. The thing I first noticed was how clean the side of the car was. Every thing was flush and aerodynamic. I'm not sure exactly how the door handles work. They just looked like a rectangular chrome pad. Maybe it pushes mechanically. Maybe its a button. It also had an extra turn signal up just in front of the front door that looked flush.
> 
> Oh here.
> 
> 
> 
> Took me a while to realize it was a *Tesla*.


A few years back there was a documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car. I'm sure it had a bunch of interesting information about special interests working to kill it, but I can't help but think designers played a bit part.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> A few years back there was a documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car. I'm sure it had a bunch of interesting information about special interests working to kill it, but I can't help but think designers played a bit part.


One of the major factors was that GM realized that 100% electric cars needed very little maintenance. The overall GM business model was for dealers to make the bulk of their money on maintenance and repairs. 

Interestingly enough, Tesla is now running into the same pressures (from outside the company). Some States are refusing to allow Tesla to sell unless they establish dealerships in the State.

----------


## Carson

Now I've seen me five of them and I suspect I will quit counting.

The factory is busy. Early morning traffic coming and going. 

I heard they are producing 500 cars a day. I wonder if we will ever see a video of them rolling out the door?

----------


## Carson

> A few years back there was a documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car. I'm sure it had a bunch of interesting information about special interests working to kill it, but I can't help but think designers played a bit part.



Looks like the designers played a part from here.

----------


## jllundqu

If tesla were alive today he'd freakin coil-zap some of those asshats from his mountain lair...

----------


## Dforkus

TSLA 157.63 Up 23.40(17.43%) 12:52PM EDT - Nasdaq Real Time Price

boom...

----------


## VBRonPaulFan

> This could certainly be one of the companies in which i'll put my money in when gold tops out. If they survive that long, that is. They are very innovative, check out the slick design of the model S, the technology is exponentially rising and the CEO is basically a genius. Plus with the economy improving in 5 years from now, oil will only rise, and electric is pretty much the only viable alternative out there. Hoping to buy it in a few years at 500 shares/ounce.


lol

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/42...nc-deposit.htm

----------


## Keith and stuff

> One of the major factors was that GM realized that 100% electric cars needed very little maintenance. The overall GM business model was for dealers to make the bulk of their money on maintenance and repairs. 
> 
> Interestingly enough, Tesla is now running into the same pressures (from outside the company). Some States are refusing to allow Tesla to sell unless they establish dealerships in the State.


So The laws are being changed like in NH this year, Telsa is building additional dealerships and 100s of supercharger stations to recharge in 30 minutes. There are already stations covering my area. By 2014, 80% of the US population is expected to be covered by supercharger stations. 
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

----------


## acptulsa

> A few years back there was a documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car. I'm sure it had a bunch of interesting information about special interests working to kill it, but I can't help but think designers played a bit part.


GM designers have been doing the same thing to their gas buggies for years.  They killed Oldsmobile.  What makes you think they're talented or competent enough to do anything intentionally?




> One of the major factors was that GM realized that 100% electric cars needed very little maintenance...


One other major factor GM took into consideration is that the Impact featured twenty-nine deep-cycle lead/acid batteries.  Batteries which will go bad and need to be replaced every so often, as anyone who has ever owned a car with a self-starter will know.  Batteries which, if you multiply the cost of a battery times twenty-nine you will see--would cost almost as much as a rebuilt transaxle.

_Who Killed the Electric Car_ is a fat pile of propaganda.  I would hope everyone here is much too smart to take it seriously.

----------


## flaversaver

I bought TSLA this morning at 153. All aboard!!!!

----------


## Ignostic?

TSLA closed at over 161 today.  This is the future.  

The Tesla S is faster than any Porsche in its price range, more efficient than a Prius, safer than a Volvo, and has carrying capacity rivaling a minivan.  The Tesla S can get a 200 mile charge from a Supercharger in about 30 minutes and charges free for life with the purchase of a properly equipped Tesla S (comes standard on the 85kWh model and as an upgrade on the 60kWh model).  By the end of 2014 you will be able to drive a Tesla S almost anywhere in the contiguous states without spending a cent on fuel.  The only inconvenience being that you'd have to stop for a half hour for about every 3 hours of driving.  If you're in a rush, then you can pay for a battery swap at the supercharger station, which takes less time than a gasoline fill up.  

The average household spent about $3,000 on fuel last year.  The battery in the Tesla S has an 8 year warranty.  If gas prices stay constant, then that's $24,000 spent on fuel in the warrantied life of the battery.  Tesla Motors will let you pay $12,000 now for an 85kWh battery when the warranty is up in 8 years.  So in 8 years time you will have saved $12,000 on fuel cost while not having to worry about the cost of replacing the battery.  I'm aware that this is a hundred thousand dollar car, so a $12,000 savings in 8 years is not necessarily a selling point, though rising gas prices could easily make those savings much larger.  

There is also savings from much lower maintenance costs.  Electric cars are inherently more mechanically sound.  The only contact between moving parts in an AC induction motor is at the bearings.  The transmission of the Tesla S is direct drive and does not need variable gears because the motor has most of its torque at 0 RPM and redlines around 15,000 RPM.  The entire powertrain of the Tesla S (battery, motor, gearbox, and other necessary electronics) is sealed from the environment so water and crud can't get in it.  An electric motor does not have to breathe and it does not expel poisonous gasses.  There is no exhaust to rust out or start incessantly rattling.  There is no air filter, oil filter, or any other kind of filter.  The brake pads even last longer because the magnetic resistance of the regenerative brakes does most of the work.  The parts that are there don't have to deal with the heat or vibration of an IC engine.  The only maintenance you would have to worry about on the Tesla S is the tires.  

I'm not saying that nothing will ever go wrong on a Tesla S, but there is far less potential for something going wrong than for any IC engine car.  There is both monetary and time savings from from this lack of maintenance.  

It's conceivable that you would get more miles per gallon of gasoline if you used that gasoline to power large generators at a power plant and charge a Tesla S through the grid powered by that plant than if you just put that gasoline into an IC engine car.  I'd have to look up a lot of figures and do some math on that one.  Generators are more efficient than cars because they can run at an optimal RPM and make much better use of waste heat.  Also, it would take less fuel to get the gasoline to one big power plant than to many gas stations.  Electricity is far more efficient to transport.  Lots of variable, so this is a hard one.  Even if they came out about the same, there is still the advantage of isolating the pollution to the area of the power plant rather than in the city.  Busy streets wouldn't have to smell of exhaust fumes.  

I've heard the argument of what do you do with an electric car if the power goes out.  Well, what do you do with a gasoline car when the power goes out?  We lost power in my area a few years ago from Hurricane Ike and the gas stations didn't work because the pumps are electric.  Any solution to that is also a solution to charging an electric car, so that is not a disadvantage for electrics.  A couple advantages of electric cars in that scenario are that electricity can come from a variety of different sources.  Tesla Superchargers are partly powered by solar panels and could still be used for charging, although at a lower performance.  Also, if you keep a Tesla S topped off in your garage, then that can be used as an 85kWh battery backup for your house.  If you don't have anywhere you need to drive then you could easily power your house off your car for a few days.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999



----------


## Ignostic?

> 


That's not an argument.  It's just a lazy way of ignoring reality.  That picture didn't apply to Bitcoin and it won't apply to Tesla Motors.  

And another thing I forgot to mention is that Tesla Motors is the only American car manufacturer that is not in debt to the government.

----------


## Zippyjuan

I got nearly run off the road by a red Tesla while riding by bicycle through Del Mar CA this week.  Have seen a black one there too.  (lots of money there and in La Jolla which is between me and Del Mar).  Del Mar horse racing season in in progress.

----------


## Carson

It looked like something was happening at *Tesla* on Friday.

Every four hundreds yards or so was a police officer waiting along side of the road. 

It looked like someone was coming to visit. I hoped it had nothing to do with me.

----------


## idiom

> And another thing I forgot to mention is that Tesla Motors is the only American car manufacturer that is not in debt to the government.


Also the only American Car Manufacturer banned from selling into Texas, among other states.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> That's not an argument.  It's just a lazy way of ignoring reality.  That picture didn't apply to Bitcoin and it won't apply to Tesla Motors.  
> 
> And another thing I forgot to mention is that Tesla Motors is the only American car manufacturer that is not in debt to the government.


It didn't apply to Bitcoin?



Bitcoin went on a parabolic rise to $266 before plunging back down to $50. 

I like Bitcoin and I like Tesla, but Tesla is overvalued at $170 much like Bitcoin was overvalued at $260.

----------


## jct74

h/t Zerohedge



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkvYvk8vxuw

----------


## Athan

> h/t Zerohedge
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkvYvk8vxuw


LOL... that was hilarious! 
Still this is what happens when a market has been starved for a competative option.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Tesla selling very well in California- #3 in total luxury car sales:
http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...,2642983.story




> Tesla Motors Model S has quietly become the *third-bestselling luxury car in California,* trailing only the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and BMW’s 5-Series.
> 
> Tesla has sold 4,714 of its Model S electric cars in the state during the first half of the year, according to the California New Car Dealers Assn. *Only the Mercedes E-Class, with 6,582, and the BMW 5-Series, with 6,077, sold more.*
> 
> Moreover, it looks like *California accounts for about 50% of the Palo Alto car company’s total sales during the first half of this year.*
> 
> Tesla sells its Model S sport sedan for prices starting at $63,570 and running to more than $100,000, with the largest battery and driving range. 
> 
> Californians just seem to get a charge out of electric cars, or at least cars that can run partially on electricity.
> ...


More at link.

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

I wouldn't bet against Elon Musk, the guy is brilliant and likes to dream big.  It's not easy being an entrepreneur in the automotive or airline industry.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

There supposed to be building (or are?) a Tesla dealership in my town. They already have one about 45 minutes south of me, and there is a supercharger station about 45 minutes to my north. The Model X looks pretty cool, and would totally get it if I had a real job. 

Though I also think the Volt fits me better. I normally drive ~30 miles a day, and I would find the gas versatility feature for the 600 miles I drive 3-4 times a year useful. Even looking at Tesla's planned supercharger network by 2015, I'd be driving too far out of my way just to charge up.

I've never actually noticed a Tesla down here, but the Model S looks so much like a normal car I probably wouldn't notice it like I do the Prius (which we do have quite a few of).

----------


## Blueskies

> TSLA closed at over 161 today. This is the future.


...And the Dow is going to 36,000.
...And housing prices will never go down.

This is another mini bubble just like Netflix at @$300 was a few years ago. In fact, I remember topics back in the summer of 2010 with posters talking about how good of a buy it was.

Tesla may have a bright, long-term future, but the stock has clearly gotten way ahead of itself. Sometime, probably in the next 12 months, this thing is gonna collapse.

----------


## DFF

I would totally look into purchasing a Tesla car, if I had the money...

----------


## flaversaver

I just priced one out the other day....for a whopping $114,000. I knew they were pricey, but come on. In the 60k range and I would have purchased.

----------


## Ignostic?

> It didn't apply to Bitcoin?
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin went on a parabolic rise to $266 before plunging back down to $50. 
> 
> I like Bitcoin and I like Tesla, but Tesla is overvalued at $170 much like Bitcoin was overvalued at $260.


So you're saying that Bitcoin is at its "return to mean" at its current price?  Bitcoins are worth about 10X what they started the year at.  If you were to draw a trend line for the Bitcoin price in 2013, then it would still have a pretty extreme upward slope.

I do have to say that Tesla's stock has performed well beyond my expectations (closed at over 183 today).  I wouldn't consider it overvalued, though.  They have a lot going for them.  It's just going to be a few years before it all really comes to fruition.  By then it will be too late to make big money on their stock.  At this point I wouldn't really recommend TSLA as a buy, but I'm also not selling.

----------


## fatjohn

under 163 today, down from all time high 194.5, where will it bottom?

----------


## jkr

One went johnny blaze in mexico ...

----------


## Blueskies

> I bought TSLA this morning at 153. All aboard!!!!


Seriously. Are you guys ever gonna learn? This thing is going to be back to $50 by the end of the year.

----------


## Danke

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-...173520052.html

----------


## Cowlesy

Suddenly I don't feel so bad about only realizing a 3.5x multiple when I was in the stock.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

They've been talking about recalls, which seems to be nothing more than a way to get the stock to move (first down, then up).

----------


## Carson

I just saw this over on Fark.com.

*Elon Musk says Tesla patents will be available to other companies. Continues his pursuit of becoming the world's worst super villian*


Story;

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...drop/10374433/



Fark thread;

http://www.fark.com/comments/8297073...-super-villian

----------


## Carson

*Tesla vote moves to NJ Senate*

_TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — The New Jersey Assembly unanimously approved a bill that would allow zero-emission carmakers to sell directly to consumers in that state.

The bill backed by environmental and business advocates would allow Tesla to resume sales in New Jersey.

It was approved Monday, and must now go before the state Senate, where its fate is unknown._

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-...s-to-nj-senate

----------


## TonySutton

Stock almost at an all time high today

----------


## flaversaver

> Seriously. Are you guys ever gonna learn? This thing is going to be back to $50 by the end of the year.


Maybe you are the one that needs to learn? Stock is sitting at 228 as of this writing.

----------


## Carson

_

"The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period.

Moreover, the warranty extension will apply retroactively to all Model S vehicles ever produced. In hindsight, this should have been our policy from the beginning of the Model S program. If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines, with far fewer moving parts and no oily residue or combustion byproducts to gum up the works, then our warranty policy should reflect that.

To investors in Tesla, I must acknowledge that this will have a moderately negative effect on Tesla earnings in the short term, as our warranty reserves will necessarily have to increase above current levels. This is amplified by the fact that we are doing so retroactively, not just for new customers. However, by doing the right thing for Tesla vehicle owners at this early stage of our company, I am confident that it will work out well in the long term."

– Elon
_

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

----------


## Dforkus

> Seriously. Are you guys ever gonna learn? This thing is going to be back to $50 by the end of the year.


survey says....     *X*

----------


## squarepusher

> _
> 
> "The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period.
> 
> Moreover, the warranty extension will apply retroactively to all Model S vehicles ever produced. In hindsight, this should have been our policy from the beginning of the Model S program. If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines, with far fewer moving parts and no oily residue or combustion byproducts to gum up the works, then our warranty policy should reflect that.
> 
> To investors in Tesla, I must acknowledge that this will have a moderately negative effect on Tesla earnings in the short term, as our warranty reserves will necessarily have to increase above current levels. This is amplified by the fact that we are doing so retroactively, not just for new customers. However, by doing the right thing for Tesla vehicle owners at this early stage of our company, I am confident that it will work out well in the long term."
> 
> – Elon
> ...


for a 100K golf cart, I would hope so

----------


## PRB

> for a 100K golf cart, I would hope so


why you hatin?

----------


## NinjaPirate

> for a 100K golf cart, I would hope so


That's a massive oversimplification if I ever saw one... O_o

----------


## PRB

> That's a massive oversimplification if I ever saw one... O_o


he's a hater

----------


## 2young2vote

http://news.yahoo.com/tesla-gets-hug...205015472.html

Sounds like they are getting tax breaks to build a lithium ion battery factory powered by renewable energy.  You want to know what is interesting about this?  These kinds of massive investments would be COMMONPLACE if the government wasn't taxing and regulating the living crap out of everything and everyone.  All it took was the government to say "We will tax you less to build here" to entice Tesla to build in Nevada.  Just imagine the growth if NO state had any kind of tax on business whatsoever.

----------


## Carson

> http://news.yahoo.com/tesla-gets-hug...205015472.html
> 
> Sounds like they are getting tax breaks to build a lithium ion battery factory powered by renewable energy.  You want to know what is interesting about this?  These kinds of massive investments would be COMMONPLACE if the government wasn't taxing and regulating the living crap out of everything and everyone.  All it took was the government to say "We will tax you less to build here" to entice Tesla to build in Nevada.  Just imagine the growth if NO state had any kind of tax on business whatsoever.



It might make a difference.

I think the big drain on business is the counterfeiting that is done. Every business, many that have stood the test of eons, just can't keep up with the counterfeiters that devalue the currency faster than businesses can trim corners. Everyone has had to trim to the bone. Even the government and their unlimited funds to regulate every aspect of our meager existence can't trim enough to allow for continuation of their criminal endeavors and delusions of omnipotence.

The time is way overdue the the honest mans dollar once again calls the tune.

----------


## timosman



----------


## EBounding

> https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-live-web-show


Now that's what I call...

The short burn of the century.

----------

