# Start Here > Ron Paul Forum >  Today's the debate! OFFICIAL 9/7 debate thread!

## Napoleon's Shadow

Toady's the debate!




Don't forget to submit a question you want asked at the debate tonight. Tweet the question  with the hashtag #reagandebate and it may get asked by Politico.

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## Bruno

I don't have a twitter account, nor a specific question, but I do want Ron Paul to capitalize on the opporutunity to take Perry down quite a few notches.  

Fingers crossed for an A-game performance that stuns the viewing public and makes them reconsider the only person on stage who does not represent the status quo, Congressman Ron Paul.

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## RonPaulFever

> I don't have a twitter account, nor a specific question, but I do want Ron Paul to capitalize on the opporutunity to take Perry down quite a few notches.  
> 
> Fingers crossed for an A-game performance that stuns the viewing public and makes them reconsider the only person on stage who does not represent the status quo, Congressman Ron Paul.


Indeed! Let's hope Ron answers both of his questions with vigor and cutting precision.

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## samuel

Hopefully this will be the thread everyone posts in... I seem to recall there being dozens of threads about the debate last time, which was confusing.

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## Bruno

> Hopefully this will be the thread everyone posts in... I seem to recall there being dozens of threads about the debate last time, which was confusing.


We can bump this prior to the debate and the mods can merge any duplicate threads as appropriate.

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## YumYum

What is the time, channel and place of the debate? Also, is there is streamline feed for those who don't have access to a TV?

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## bluesc

> What is the time, channel and place of the debate? Also, is there is streamline feed for those who don't have access to a TV?


8PM - 9:45PM ET  -   Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, CA

Live streams on msnbc.com and politico.com, according to *this thread*.

ETA: Will air on CNBC and MSNBC.

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## lucky_bg

> I don't have a twitter account, nor a specific question, but I do want Ron Paul to capitalize on the opporutunity to take Perry down quite a few notches.  
> 
> Fingers crossed for an A-game performance that stuns the viewing public and makes them reconsider the only person on stage who does not represent the status quo, Congressman Ron Paul.


Not having twitter account is not something to brag about, as a Ron Paul supporter. It's like saying You want to go to war to defend country, but you just don't like firearms. Posting here on forums is good and interesting, but all of us here are already RP supporters. Tweeting, on the other side, make you capable of informing and influencing milions abot Ron Paul and his message. And, as You are quite active here on forums, which means You have time and will, it would be good to make twitter acount. It is very powerfull tool, and quite interesting, too.

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## Bruno

> Not having twitter account is not something to brag about, as a Ron Paul supporter. It's like saying You want to go to war to defend country, but you just don't like firearms. Posting here on forums is good and interesting, but all of us here are already RP supporters. Tweeting, on the other side, make you capable of informing and influencing milions abot Ron Paul and his message. And, as You are quite active here on forums, which means You have time and will, it would be good to make twitter acount. It is very powerfull tool, and quite interesting, too.


I wasn't bragging about not having a twitter account, simply stating that I do not have one, but thank you for informing me why I should want one to support Ron Paul.

What question did you tweet?

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## JohnGalt23g

So, I still have time to drive down to LA to be at the debate.  Should I go?  And if I do, what are the chances of getting a ticket?

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## tsai3904

> So, I still have time to drive down to LA to be at the debate.  Should I go?  And if I do, what are the chances of getting a ticket?


Tickets are not available to the public.  There's a sign waving and a debate watch party that will be held near the debate:

http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-1176/events/31185412/
http://www.meetup.com/ronpaul-1176/events/31469832/

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## bluesc

> So, I still have time to drive down to LA to be at the debate.  Should I go?  And if I do, what are the chances of getting a ticket?


I don't think tickets are available to the public. They were handed out to the Reagan famaily and allocated to the campaigns for friends and family I presume.

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## The Midnight Ride

Did the grassroots organize for this? Can we expect a good turn out?

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## PastaRocket848

we need to get some people with some Rick Perry t-shirts and "9/11 was an inside job" signs in front of the cameras there.  guerilla warfare

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## tsai3904

> Did the grassroots organize for this? Can we expect a good turn out?


If you're referring to the sign waving and debate watch party, you can click on those links and see how many are attending.  Presumably, many more who did not confirm online will also attend.

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## libertybrewcity



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## lucky_bg

> I wasn't bragging about not having a twitter account, simply stating that I do not have one, but thank you for informing me why I should want one to support Ron Paul.


I didn't meant to sound offending, and if I have offended You, I'm sorry. All I wanted to say is - give it a try. You will love it, I promise.
I didn't like twitter, too, and have been thinking that it is just for people who are leisured and want to brag about what they eat, or what kind of music they listen, etc. 
But it's much more then that.
Here is example. Few days ago on another thread we speculated  about some big announcement at SC rally. And someone suggested that it can be endorsement by SC State Senator Tom Davis. I looked in to it, and have found some very nice things both about Davis and what he had to say about Ron Paul. So I decided to take a shot at it and have sent him a tweet:

@senatortomdavis Thank You for your upcoming endorsement of @ronpaul!

And he answered:

@JovicicMilan Milan, I have great respect for Ron Paul but have yet to decide who to support.

Although it wasn't answer I wanted to hear, during Jim Demint forum he tweeted:

senatortomdavis Tom Davis 
Ron Paul says bring all overseas troops home because: 1) we can't afford cost; 2) overseas presence foments hatred of us; 3) we'd be safer.

Then eduardo_89 send him another tweet on the subject of endorsement:

@senatortomdavis I smell an endorsement!

And as he answered "of whom", I send:

@senatortomdavis We kinda speculated a little @RonPaulForums about some #mysterious #announcement. I #bet on #senatortomdavis, and lost. 

Eduardo_89 then send:

@senatortomdavis Hopefully you make the right choice for America and endorse Ron Paul!

And Tom Davis retweeted these tweets, so all people that follow him could read it. And You usually retweet something You support, or find interesting and well thought. It gave oportunity to 1700 of his followers to read his tweets about Ron Paul. And these 1700 people that follow senator Davis are almost all South Carolina conservatives interested in politics and almost sure to vote in primaries. 

He tweeted some very good things about Ron Paul before Palmeto Forum, too, and some pretty doubtful about Romney and Perry, but this post is already too long. Point is, with twitter, you can reach to almost anyone today, you can set course of discusion, find all same thinking people with simple tools like hashtags, etc.

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## lucky_bg

benpolitico Ben Smith 
 by realtonygoodwin
RT @politico: We're livestreaming the #ReaganDebate at politi.co/pbFfX7. Don't miss the pre-game show, starting at 7:30 ET

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## Bruno

> I didn't meant to sound offending, and if I have offended You, I'm sorry. All I wanted to say is - give it a try. You will love it, I promise.
> I didn't like twitter, too, and have been thinking that it is just for people who are leisured and want to brag about what they eat, or what kind of music they listen, etc. 
> But it's much more then that.
> Here is example. Few days ago on another thread we speculated  about some big announcement at SC rally. And someone suggested that it can be endorsement by SC State Senator Tom Davis. I looked in to it, and have found some very nice things both about Davis said what he had to say about Ron Paul. So I decided to take a shot at it and have sent him a tweet:
> 
> @senatortomdavis Thank You for your upcoming endorsement of @ronpaul!
> 
> And he answered:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much the apology and for those examples.  I may just just the twitter world soon!  Much to learn.

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## patriot2008

I would just really hope some great questions would be phrased to really expose all the others as really being "The Status Quo" and to expose how the others are now Trying so hard to sound like Ron Paul on issues that are NOW more popular.  
  In Questions Please expose who is FAKE, and who has ALWAYS been REAL!  In my whole lifetime we have never had a REAL candidate!  Not even close.  Everyone knows that, everyone is more SICK of that than anything else!   It also continues to build on the Campaign's current themes of "TRUST"  and Ron being the only "ONE".
  Let's do this NOW and continue to do this!  It is working, it can't be ignored!  A bunch of Fake Ron Paul clones struggling to talk substance about things they know nothing about is a piece of cake to crumble.   RON has been Right, this will only become more apparent in the coming months.

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## V3n

I'm getting so excited for the debate!!!!  Can't wait!!!

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## lucky_bg

> I'm getting so excited for the debate!!!!  Can't wait!!!


+rep There is two of us. I feel like a girl before prom night!

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## JohnGalt23g

Tonight is so huge... Ron has some people on the Right really, really scared.

I offer a prayer for him, his family, his campaign, and his performance tonight.

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## chronicaust

> Indeed! Let's hope Ron answers both of his questions with vigor and cutting precision.


I see what you did there.

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## CaptUSA

Perry will have his minions take care of Paul in this debate...  You will easily recognize which candidates are vying for positions in the Perry or Romney camps.

Hitting Perry = trying to save Romney
Hitting Paul = trying to clear the ground for Perry to be the "tea party candidate"

If anyone besides Perry hits Romney, I'd be surprised.  What would not surprise me one bit is if Romney has some nice words for Dr. Paul.

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## RonPaulFever

> I see what you did there.


+rep for catching it

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## Jingles

I might have to just watch it on youtube when its done. I'm going to this meeting for a libertarian group tonight at my college. Well, hell if I know we might even watch the debate. I just don't know much about this libertarian club other than their name.

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## KingNothing

> Perry will have his minions take care of Paul in this debate...  You will easily recognize which candidates are vying for positions in the Perry or Romney camps.
> 
> Hitting Perry = trying to save Romney
> Hitting Paul = trying to clear the ground for Perry to be the "tea party candidate"
> 
> If anyone besides Perry hits Romney, I'd be surprised.  What would not surprise me one bit is if Romney has some nice words for Dr. Paul.



Nah, Huntsman will certainly go after Romney.  Mitt is Huntsman's largest roadblock.

Texan against Texan, Mormon against Mormon.  Sign of the apocalypse?

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## Bruno

Thread title fail.  

 We all now that _toady_ is the debate!!

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## CaptUSA

> Nah, Huntsman will certainly go after Romney.  Mitt is Huntsman's largest roadblock.
> 
> Texan against Texan, Mormon against Mormon.  Sign of the apocalypse?


Huntsman already knows he's not going to win.  It will be interesting to watch whose side he falls on, though.

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## kylejack

One thing we had last cycle that I haven't seen this cycle: people adding up how much time each candidate is getting. If Newt and Santorum are polling 1% and still getting more time than Paul, that is absurd.

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## JohnGalt23g

> Thread title fail.  
> 
>  We all now that _toady_ is the debate!!


I was wondering about that

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## Napoleon's Shadow

> Thread title fail.  
> 
>  We all now that _toady_ is the debate!!


No, it was actually "toady" but some rogue mod changed it arbitrarily.

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## Bruno

> No, it was actually "toady" but some rogue mod changed it arbitrarily.


+ rep in that case.

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## ctiger2

I predict Ron kicks major ass tonight.

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## PastaRocket848

well, he's definitely set himself up to either go big or go home.  the establishment candidates are going to be all over him tonight.  santorum will throw in his frothy mix, of course.  i'm sure the paul/perry feud (is it safe to call it that now?) will be a topic.  tonight is big for the campaign for sure.  just remember this is the first of several this month... a bad performance wouldn't be the end but it certainly wouldn't help.  i'm confident he'll knock it out of the park!

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## Bruno

Any confirmation Perry isn't still off fighting fires and will actually be there?

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## CaptUSA

> santorum will throw in his frothy mix, of course.

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## KingNothing

> Huntsman already knows he's not going to win.  It will be interesting to watch whose side he falls on, though.


He's already released a commercial going after Mitt.  He'll follow it up with more attacks in the debate because he wants to win NH and Mitt is just an empty suit trying to avoid being exposed.  Huntsman can really cut in to his support and challenge his position as the "lead moderate"

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## Dissident

Is there a thread listing the locations to watch the debate tonight?

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## lucky_bg

> Any confirmation Perry isn't still off fighting fires and will actually be there?


That's my worst fear for tonight.

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## PastaRocket848

his campaign has confirmed he'll be there.  it was on google news yesterday... can't remember what site.

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## KramerDSP

Folks, we MUST remind ourselves that we can't get too low or too high. I suggest that we will be too emotionally invested in the proceedings to provide an accurate critique. So, to the rainmakers who will cry and pout and throw tantrums on these boards, please try and at least wait a few hours before posting. There will be new folks coming to the forum tonight and we want to have mandatory optimism. 

With that said, tonight's performance will likely determine if Ron Paul re-awakens the Reaganites. If he does, he probably becomes the President. Amazing. Ron freaking Paul could actually become the President.

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## CaptUSA

> Folks, we MUST remind ourselves that we can't get too low or too high. I suggest that we will be too emotionally invested in the proceedings to provide an accurate critique. So, to the rainmakers who will cry and pout and throw tantrums on these boards, please try and at least wait a few hours before posting. There will be new folks coming to the forum tonight and we want to have mandatory optimism. 
> 
> With that said, tonight's performance will likely determine if Ron Paul re-awakens the Reaganites. If he does, he probably becomes the President. Amazing. Ron freaking Paul could actually become the President.


Maybe the wisest post this month!

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## Canderson

Is it not airing on cnbc? Its not on the schedule

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## eaglesfan48

Are we all ready to hit the polls after the debate?

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## PastaRocket848

does it really matter?  they don't report on them.

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## MJU1983

http://twitter.com/#!/mju1983/status/111516681859366912

^ Feel free to RT.

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## Canderson

> Is it not airing on cnbc? Its not on the schedule


????????

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## MJU1983

> Is it not airing on cnbc? Its not on the schedule


It's on MSNBC.

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## anewvoice

> Folks, we MUST remind ourselves that we can't get too low or too high. I suggest that we will be too emotionally invested in the proceedings to provide an accurate critique. So, to the rainmakers who will cry and pout and throw tantrums on these boards, please try and at least wait a few hours before posting. There will be new folks coming to the forum tonight and we want to have mandatory optimism. 
> 
> With that said, tonight's performance will likely determine if Ron Paul re-awakens the Reaganites. If he does, he probably becomes the President. Amazing. Ron freaking Paul could actually become the President.


I do feel we're all worked into a tithy here, resulting from the ad of course.  Prior to that ad I was ho hum about the debate and now I'm dying to see the fireworks.  This is a huge risk/reward moment and I sincerely hope Ron Paul NAILS it tonight.  

 See, in 2 sentences I got all hyped up and i was trying to affirm your comment.

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## Arklatex

> Fingers crossed for an A-game performance that stuns the viewing public and makes them reconsider the only person on stage who does not represent the status quo, Congressman Ron Paul.


eye!

I pray to God: that tonight nothing less or more than the true character of the candidates are made apparent to the viewers!

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## MelissaCato

Why is everyone Tweeting Rick Perry already I see ... gezzzz where are all the Ron Paul Tweeters ? Rick Perry is about to Trend prolly.. darn it.

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## Canderson

> It's on MSNBC.


The debate thread here on the forums says its supposed to be on CNBC too. Damn, now I have to watch it on the computer

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## Bruno

Nearly 1,000 views and the debate doesn't start for hours.

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## SpicyTurkey

When does the debate start?

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## PastaRocket848

8:00est i believe.

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## PaulConventionWV

What channel is MSNBC in a standard cable package?  I'm worried I won't have it.  Is there a live stream?

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## Arklatex

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...an-s-true-heir




> Representative Paul started this tussle with an attack ad aimed at Texas Governor Perry. Perrys the front-runner now, so hes going to have to get used to the other hopefuls coming after him.
> 
> Anyway, the Paul ad is called The One Who Stood With Reagan. It starts with the blunt words, The establishment called him extreme and unelectable. They said he was the wrong man for the job.
> 
> RECOMMENDED: Reagan's 100th birthday  10 defining moments
> 
> The narrator is talking about Mr. Reagan there  but yes, we know, thats what all the pundits are saying about Paul today. The ad goes on to say that Paul was attracted to Reagans message of smaller government and lower taxes and that he was one of only four congressmen to endorse him for president.
> 
> Then comes the scary music, so you know the punch is about to come. After Reagan, Al Gore ran for president ... pushing his liberal values, says the ad, and Al Gore found a cheerleader in Texas named Rick Perry.
> ...

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## Tarzan

I think this is the Politico Live Stream:

*http://www.politico.com/livestream/*

*My ad blockers won't let me watch it on MSNBC.*

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## Invi

I wonder if the stream will work on the ps3. :-/
No tv channels, no pc to use. Sadface!

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

They better air it on CNBC.  If they were smart, NBC would air it on all their channels. They go to all this trouble and only air the GOP debate on their liberal news station?

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## Arklatex

> I wonder if the stream will work on the ps3. :-/
> No tv channels, no pc to use. Sadface!


Sounds like you might have to wait for the youtube!

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## libertybrewcity

what should I eat for dinner?

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## MelissaCato

> what should I eat for dinner?


LOL That's what I was just thinking.

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## Invi

:C
That blows.
Always with the YT. Lol. BrooklynZoo gets to catch parts of the debates at work, so when he gets home, I'm always behind. Jealousness.

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## Bruno

> what should I eat for dinner?


Sushi!  

Or, whatever is easier to clean off of the television screen if you throw your dinner at it!

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## Matthew5

AP confirms that Perry is on his way to the debates. Looks like we're finally getting the battle we wanted. Although AP is drumming it up as a Romney v. Perry debate as the main point.

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## Bruno

> AP confirms that Perry is on his way to the debates. Looks like we're finally getting the battle we wanted. Although AP is drumming it up as a Romney v. Perry debate as the main point.


You mean the fight that likely won't happen?  I doubt Romney will be in attack mode, but we will see.

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## trey4sports

> *I wonder if the stream will work on the ps3.* :-/
> No tv channels, no pc to use. Sadface!



Doubt it, IIRC, PS3 doesn't support flash.

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## RecoveringNeoCon

Game on!!

Yeah, Fox News has an article on their front page that says "Perry, Romney lead tonight's GOP debate". LOL 

As someone said earlier, tonight has the potential to be the much needed "Guliani moment" for this campaign. Or rather the "Parry moment"

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## rich34

I hate to say it, but I'm not even going to get excited over tonight's debate.  With 10 flippin people debating Ron is going to get ignored as usual.  The biggest impact he'll have is from his ad running on national tv.  I remember we used to be against such a thing, but the networks that hold the debates are going to have to seriously consider some sort of litmus test in order to qualify for the debate.  Santorum or whatever his name is for instance has no business being on stage.  The networks this go around I bet will keep as many in that are running just to drown out the field while yet still giving Romney, Perry and whoever else they decide the majority of questions.  Paul's campaign and the grassroots sure has their work cut out for them.  If we're going to win this we have to seriously figure out how to win without the media.  It's sad really, we ain't asking for coverage we don't deserve, just straight up fair coverage....  They can't even give us that.

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## MJU1983

> http://twitter.com/#!/mju1983/status/111516681859366912
> 
> ^ Feel free to RT.


Oh my goodness.  This tweet sparked an interesting back and forth with a Rick Perry supporter.  

I'm not sure how to show you all but it was entertaining.

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## Matthew5

> I hate to say it, but I'm not even going to get excited over tonight's debate.  With 10 flippin people debating Ron is going to get ignored as usual.  The biggest impact he'll have is from his ad running on national tv.  I remember we used to be against such a thing, but the networks that hold the debates are going to have to seriously consider some sort of litmus test in order to qualify for the debate.  Santorum or whatever his name is for instance has no business being on stage.  The networks this go around I bet will keep as many in that are running just to drown out the field while yet still giving Romney, Perry and whoever else they decide the majority of questions.  Paul's campaign and the grassroots sure has their work cut out for them.  If we're going to win this we have to seriously figure out how to win without the media.  It's sad really, we ain't asking for coverage we don't deserve, just straight up fair coverage....  They can't even give us that.


My understanding was that Nancy Reagan and Politico set the litmus test. They invited everyone over 5% polling...which excludes Johnson, McCotter, and Ronney.

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## Matthew5

> Oh my goodness.  This tweet sparked an interesting back and forth with a Rick Perry supporter.  
> 
> I'm not sure how to show you all but it was entertaining.


lol wwwoooowwww....I applaud your commitment to arguing with a NASCAR fan.

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## Karsten

I'm here in Simi Valley.  About to wave signs. It's HOT!

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## MJU1983

> lol wwwoooowwww....I applaud your commitment to arguing with a NASCAR fan.


Thank you.  I think I did okay. It's hard to argue in 140 characters.

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## RecoveringNeoCon

way to go!!! I'm here in Long Beach and its scorching - can't imagine simi valley right now!

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## lucky_bg

> My understanding was that Nancy Reagan and Politico set the litmus test. They invited everyone over 5% polling...which excludes Johnson, McCotter, and Ronney.


Yes, but they pick and chose polls, so they can include who they want, and leave out those they don't want. Or you rally think that Santorum and Huntsman are at 5% nationally?!

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## dannno

> I feel like a girl before prom night!


Do you and your date have hotel reservations? (curious on how well you think it's going to go)

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## Matthew5

> Yes, but they pick and chose polls, so they can include who they want, and leave out those they don't want. Or you rally think that Santorum and Huntsman are at 5% nationally?!


Don't think it's national. The Real Clear Politics average or the Politico...I don't recall which at the moment.

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## lucky_bg

> I'm here in Simi Valley.  About to wave signs. It's HOT!


And You just earned yourself a +rep

Make sure to take some pics of you guys in action, so you can post it here later.

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## PeacePlan

> I'm here in Simi Valley.  About to wave signs. It's HOT!


+ Rep

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## tfurrh

> Oh my goodness.  This tweet sparked an interesting back and forth with a Rick Perry supporter.  
> 
> I'm not sure how to show you all but it was entertaining.


I don't know why, but this peaked my interest. I went and read your 'back and forth.' Gaaaaaawwwww! That girl was helpless. My brain almost exploded.

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## KramerDSP

Man, we're two hours away from one of the biggest debates ever. I think the majority of us will either be super elated or super bummed. There's probably no in-between. Some of us will think Ron did horrible, and then a bunch of new posters will arrive tonight and tomorrow saying things like "Oh my god, Ron Paul is the shiznit" or "I can't believe a greater than Reagan was in our midsts and then it all came together" or "my neighbor just told me he thought Paul destroyed Perry and made a mockery of Santorum tonight". And the die-hards of years past will wonder how we were so critical.

I am sure Ron feels the pressure. It is an enormous weight on his shoulder knowing he can possibly begin the first step of uniting the Ron Paul Revolution with that of the Reaganites by delivering his greatest ever debate performance. His campaign better be subjecting him to a two-hour loop of everybody laughing at him in 2008 so that he comes out raring to go.

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## KramerDSP

Karsten, how many folks are doing the sign wave? How is the atmosphere?

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## MJU1983

> I don't know why, but this peaked my interest. I went and read your 'back and forth.' Gaaaaaawwwww! That girl was helpless. My brain almost exploded.


If I got her to THINK just a little bit, I'd say it was mission accomplished.  But, I'm afraid that facts alone won't sway her.

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

> I hate to say it, but I'm not even going to get excited over tonight's debate.  With 10 flippin people debating Ron is going to get ignored as usual.


That's kind of how I feel about it. The field is still too large. They need to weed out these little guys and focus on the top contenders. Of course, the establishment doesn't want to do that until they can weed out Ron Paul along with them.

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## MJU1983

10 people?  I thought it was 8.  Are they actually going to let Gov Johnson in the debate?  That would make 9, who is 10?

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## Tom in NYC

> They need to weed out these little guys and focus on the top contenders.


That is the exact mentality that marginalized Dr. Paul last time around since we were a "little guy".  We'll get there this time around, cause Dr. Paul always stands out, even in a large crowd.

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## KramerDSP

8 folks altogether with roughly 1 hour and 15 minutes of time divided amongst them. If Ron gets 8 minutes, I think I'm good to go.

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

Carl Cameron mentioned the fight between Ron Paul and Perry during his debate coverage just now. They showed a bit of the ad and mentioned that Perry worked on the Gore campaign in the 80s. Getting that on the air on Fox is priceless.

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## Ireland4Liberty

http://twitter.com/#!/TheDailyShow/s...61904467619840

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## Matthew5

> http://twitter.com/#!/TheDailyShow/s...61904467619840


Awesome!

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## LibertyEagle

> 8 folks altogether with roughly 1 hour and 15 minutes of time divided amongst them. If Ron gets 8 minutes, I think I'm good to go.


Man, that's a short debate.

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## PastaRocket848

yeah... i never thought i'd say this after last campaign.... but it's time to start separating the serious contenders from the also-rans.  santorum, huntsman, gingrich, cain, are getting to the point that their presence in the debates is only taking valuable time away from allowing people to hear the real contenders.

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## Sola_Fide

I'm really missing a detailed "job's plan" from Ron.  Even if he thinks it is insurmountable, he should at least act confident, come out with a point by point plan, and assure Americans we can do it.

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## Matthew5

> I'm really missing a detailed "job's plan" from Ron.  Even if he thinks it is insurmountable, he should at least act confident, come out with a point by point plan, and assure Americans we can do it.


Or would it make it seem as if he's playing catch-up with Obama, GOP, and Mitt Romney? Need to time that correctly.

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## pacelli

Perry is there.  Ron better knock that "attack ad" question out of the park.  You know it is coming.

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## CaseyJones

what is the drinking word? "jobs"?

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## Verrater

> Perry is there.  Ron better knock that "attack ad" question out of the park.  You know it is coming.


this.

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## FreedomProsperityPeace

> I'm really missing a detailed "job's plan" from Ron.  Even if he thinks it is insurmountable, he should at least act confident, come out with a point by point plan, and assure Americans we can do it.


Are there even any ideas left? Between the president's coming speech and Romney's *59* ideas, I think they're all taken by now.

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## Matthew5

> Are there even any ideas left? Between the president's coming speech and Romney's *59* ideas, I think they're all taken by now.


True...Americans don't read the plans anyway. they wait for the media to dissect it. Who wants to sit down and read a novel on job creation? It's the same recycled, Keynesian BS. Ron Paul has a plan...he's had one for over three decades. He can point to his entire body of work as the plan.

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

> what is the drinking word? "jobs"?


instant drunk!

----------


## pacelli

> Are there even any ideas left? Between the president's coming speech and Romney's *59* ideas, I think they're all taken by now.


My GUESS is that Cain probably has a 4-step solution to solving the problem.  1) Look at the problem... 2) Evaluate the problem... 3) come on, everybody all together know..... Develop a solution (doing good so far)... and 4) Implement the solution.

----------


## Buchananite

> My GUESS is that Cain probably has a 4-step solution to solving the problem.  1) Look at the problem... 2) Evaluate the problem... 3) come on, everybody all together know..... Develop a solution (doing good so far)... and 4) Implement the solution.


LOL yep
Something along the lines of identifying the problem, surrounding yourself with the right people, create a solution, know the goals of the solution.

----------


## Sola_Fide

> My GUESS is that Cain probably has a 4-step solution to solving the problem.  1) Look at the problem... 2) Evaluate the problem... 3) come on, everybody all together know..... Develop a solution (doing good so far)... and 4) Implement the solution.


That got a giggle from me.

----------


## Buchananite

What do you know......Herman talks to political right before the debate http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62886.html

Huntsman too http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62891.html

----------


## LibertyEagle

> I'm really missing a detailed "job's plan" from Ron.  Even if he thinks it is insurmountable, he should at least act confident, come out with a point by point plan, and assure Americans we can do it.


Or, just a plan for turning around the economy.  Because then the jobs would most certainly appear.

But, I agree with you.  He needs to get down to more specifics.

----------


## Theocrat

I predict that Congressman Paul will win this debate tonight.

----------


## Sola_Fide

> Or, just a plan for turning around the economy.  Because then the jobs would most certainly appear.
> 
> But, I agree with you.  He needs to get down to more specifics.


Agree.

----------


## anaconda

What's a good streaming link for the debate that won't keep buffering itself? any suggestions?

----------


## TexMac

Just saw this on twitter:




> #ReaganDebate - Herds of Ron Paul supporters outside the library, outnumber other GOP hopefuls.

----------


## Sola_Fide

Nice^^^

----------


## dusman

For those who never got a chance to see the previous Reagan Library debate, I highly encourage that you do. It was a really great discussion and last time Ron Paul knocked it out of the park. 

Here is a video highlighting some of what Ron Paul had to say.

----------


## bronc_fan23

Saw this earlier




> TheDailyShow The Daily Show
> #ReaganDebate Prediction: Everyone treats @RonPaul the way they should be treating @MicheleBachmann.

----------


## TexMac

Pic of Ron in the green room:

http://ow.ly/i/gVWF

----------


## Buchananite

> What's a good streaming link for the debate that won't keep buffering itself? any suggestions?


MSNBC is supposed to be streaming it online

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

http://www.shadownet.info/channels/usa/msnbc.html

If you're stuck at work without a television, this link may be useful.  You're welcome. 

WARNING: Chris Matthews' show is on right now.  Keep barf bag at the ready.

----------


## Matt Collins

Picture of Ron Paul in the debate green room waiting on the debate to start:

http://ow.ly/i/gVWF

----------


## TexMac

twitpic of Ron Paul supporters at the debate:

http://twitpic.com/6hjpwl

----------


## TexMac

Another twitpic:

http://twitpic.com/6hjt59

----------


## jcarcinogen

> What's a good streaming link for the debate that won't keep buffering itself? any suggestions?


http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#r=-rid-&s=em

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

Yeah, I hated that setup last time. I hope they have it in a different location tonight.

----------


## Sola_Fide

Any ustream links out there?

----------


## TexMac

Aw, how cool is this?

http://twitpic.com/6hjtu6

Hope she keeps posting!

----------


## pacelli

Alex Jones' voice on MSNBC, pimping newamerica3.com during a commercial. 

I'm telling you, its only a matter of time before he's on Fox.

----------


## MJU1983

> http://twitter.com/#!/TheDailyShow/s...61904467619840


^ Retweeted!  He also had this one: http://twitter.com/#!/TheDailyShow/s...74535630888960 <-- el oh el

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Forum, please help.  

During the Fox debate a few weeks back, there was live polling.  Can the forum help me to figure out where to go for live polling of the Reagan Library debate?

I'll get to work on my end, and will report what I find.  Please help me.

The voice of the internet must be heard!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I don't know why, but this peaked my interest. I went and read your 'back and forth.' Gaaaaaawwwww! That girl was helpless. My brain almost exploded.


You mean it piqued your interest?

----------


## JohnGalt23g

> what is the drinking word? "jobs"?


Frothy

----------


## Buchananite

> http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#r=-rid-&s=em


Somebody get on that chat

EDIT-Just saw this comment "I'm kinda surprised the Paul nuts arent out in force tonigt"

----------


## Matt Collins

*A Tale of Two Rons*



_"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."_ - Ronald Reagan


*ANTI**-ESTABLISHMENT*

"Reagan, a former governor, expressed the *anti-Washington, anti-establishment feelings* so strong in the grass roots." (Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., The Deseret News. August 21, 1976)

"What Reagan men will have as their principal arguments to the crucial uncommitted will be  There is *a strong anti-Washington, anti-establishment sentiment in the country* today, and Reagan can win its support." (Roscoe Drummond, The Press-Courier. June 13, 1976)

"His *disdain for government, for overbearing, over-meddling, over-regulating government*, providing a ready answer for any challenge put to him. Government was the source for all our problems  inflation, the sagging economy or general dissatisfaction with the state of things." (Gotbaum and Handman, St. Petersburg Times. July 1, 1981)

*Sound familiar?*

"Ron Paul's 2008 presidential campaign, with its *message of limited government and its anti-Establishment ethos*, created a kind of do-it-yourself model for the current activism shaking up politics around the country." (Michael Crowley, TIME. May 27, 2010)

"...many of his [Ron Paul's] ideas have been appropriated by the kinds of mainstream Republicans who used to snort when he talked. Mr. Paul is probably *the most consistently anti-Washington politician in all of Washington*." (Ross Ramsey, New York Times. July 16, 2011)

Ron Paul framed it as "a fight that could literally change our country." *Anti-Washington from the day he stepped foot on Capitol Hill in 1976*, *Paul was the tea party before the tea party*. (Alex Leary, St. Petersburg Times. August 11, 2011) 

*OUTSIDE THE* *MAINSTREAM*

"Ronald Reagan  [was] seeking to defuse President Fords contention that he is 'too far to the right.'" (Pittsburg Post-Gazette. February 21, 1976)

"His Republican opponents are  trying to derail Ronald Reagan on the ground that he is ultraconservative. It is a very debatable that Reagan is outside the mainstream of American political thinking at this time." (The Rock Hill Herald. November 29, 1975)

"Mr. Reagan is outside the mainstream,thus giving him the support of the disenchanted. (The Times-News. January 28, 1976)*Sound familiar?* 
"Paul has some intriguing ideas but, all told, *he's too far out of the political/ideological mainstream to be elected*, no matter how much attention he gets." (Eric Zorn, Chicago Tribune. August 16, 2011)

"Mr. Paul spent years  spouting ideas that were *outside the boundaries of mainstream* Republican thinking." (Ross Ramsey, New York Times. July 16, 2011) 

*UN**ELECTABILITY*

Gerald Ford said Ronald Reagan was "unelectable, too conservative." He continued, saying Reagan "*can't win the national election*." (Associated Press. March 3, 1980)

In regard to Reagan being an effective president: "Not Ronald Reagan. *He comes out of the extreme right wing of American politics*. If we are to believe his words, *he would like to dismantle the federal government* in the hope of returning to simpler times." (St. Petersburg Times. October 18, 1980)

*Sound familiar?*
 
Their support is wide and shallow; his [Ron Pauls] is narrow and deep. And *that means he cannot be nominated*. (Bruce Ramsey, Seattle Times. August 16, 2011)

"He *doesn't have the breadth of support that's needed to capture the nomination*." (Dan Amira, New York Magazine. August 16, 2011) 

*HISTORIC CPAC* *VICTORIES*
From the article entitled *Reagan Gains Fringe Support*: "Conservatives ... now are concentrating on winning the Republican nomination for Ronald Reagan. The former California governor handily won a presidential preference straw poll Sunday at the Conservative Political Action Conference. (Associated Press. February 16, 1976)

*Sound familiar?*
 
"Ron Paul emerged victorious in the Conservative Political Action Conference's annual presidential straw poll,the second straight year that the libertarian-leaning Texas Congressman has won the vote." (Cillizza and Weiner, Washington Post. February 12, 2011)

----------


## RonPaulVolunteer

LIVE stream link?

----------


## Buchananite

> LIVE stream link?


http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#r=-rid-&s=em

----------


## jcarcinogen

> LIVE stream link?


http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#/w/1732153312/4

----------


## Oddone

Does MSNBC love Rick Perry? They are strokeing his err.. ego right now.

----------


## nasaal

> Does MSNBC love Rick Perry? They are strokeing his err.. ego right now.


Well he is a Wilsonian Democrat.

----------


## Aratus

20 minutes to go 
and counting!!!
WIN, RON, WIN!!!

----------


## MJU1983

> LIVE stream link?


I _think_ you can watch here: http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...blican-debate/

If you have a Mac, you might want to "uncheck" enable hardware acceleration in adobe settings.  Mine won't work if checked.

----------


## bronc_fan23

They are going to make Ron Paul bash Reagan in front of Mrs. Reagan. Just watch.

----------


## Shane Harris

lol msnbc basically just said that people should vote based on who they like listening to the most. someone who you can stand listenign to for 4 years. really? not whos honest or who can fix our country. our elections are now unapologetically beauty pageants.

----------


## anaconda

> Pic of Ron in the green room:
> 
> http://ow.ly/i/gVWF


Does not appear to be Fiji Water..

----------


## JohnGalt23g

> They are going to make Ron Paul bash Reagan in front of Mrs. Reagan. Just watch.


If so, that only gives Ron Paul the opportunity to talk about the good old days when he and "Dutch"... he loved it when Dr. Paul called him Dutch... when he and Dutch were working together in 1975-76, fighting the improbable fight against the Ford/Rockefeller Establishment.  How Ron and Nancy counted on Dr. Paul and Carol to carry the conservative message down in Texas.  How when they came so close in Kansas City, it was Ron Paul who was there to say... "Get 'em next time, Dutch."


And not a dry eye in the house...

----------


## RonPaulVolunteer

> I _think_ you can watch here: http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...blican-debate/
> 
> If you have a Mac, you might want to "uncheck" enable hardware acceleration in adobe settings.  Mine won't work if checked.


I don't think they are streaming the debate itself, just their commentary of it.

----------


## The Midnight Ride

Jon Huntsman? Grow up, MSNBC . . .

----------


## kylejack

"Those 3 guys in the middle are going to be the focus, and Bachmann may have a chance to get in there." The middle three were Romney, Perry, Paul!

----------


## RP Supporter

You know we're in the big leagues when Paul's closer to the middle of the stage then outcast to the sides.

Like Santorum. I bet his crush on Ron will resurface tonight.

----------


## JohnGalt23g

Quick prayer and a hit off the chalice for Dr. Paul.

Courage, sir!!

----------


## Texan4Life

> "Those 3 guys in the middle are going to be the focus, and Bachmann may have a chance to get in there." The middle three were Romney, Perry, Paul!


woot +1!

stream: http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#r=-rid-&s=em

----------


## Oddone

Haha! Woman on Politico stream just said, we can expect Ron Paul to complain about not getting enough media attention durring the debate! WTF!

----------


## Thrashertm

Very impressive how these MSNBC twits keep tap-dancing around mentioning Ron Paul.

----------


## green73

Found a good stream:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...n_library.html

----------


## The Midnight Ride

> Very impressive how these MSNBC twits keep tap-dancing around mentioning Ron Paul.


It is painful. They are pushing Huntsman, mentioning him any chance they get.

----------


## RP Supporter

Ron's ad is on MSNBC!

----------


## Oddone

Ron Pauls TRUST AD is on RIGHT NOW!

----------


## The Midnight Ride

Commercial!

----------


## Harry96

Ron Paul commercial during the break!

----------


## kill the banks

ad is on now

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

I'm really looking forward to a good debate performance tonight by Paul, and I'm optimistic that he'll deliver his best yet. I also expect to see Santorum attack Dr. Paul again *sigh* Go Ron!

----------


## trey4sports

its on!

----------


## pauliticalfan

Seeing the commercial now heck yeah

----------


## zacharyrow

Ron Paul AD right now! Slamming Rick Perry.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> Ron's ad on MSNBC!






Bunkloco

----------


## afmatt

Trust AD playing - awesome!

----------


## Texan4Life

awesome RP ad on live stream... For the WIN!!!

----------


## PeteinLA

Good RP commercial on TV now in LA. Perry smackdown.

----------


## anewvoice

WOOOOO, there is the first commercial play, WOOOOOO! 

Comments from msnbc - most of these guys are RINOs anyway

----------


## robmpreston

Nice!

----------


## kylejack

> Ron Paul commercial during the break!


Ahahahahaha this is awesome.

----------


## Tim724

YES, Ron Paul ad playing now

----------


## Shane Harris

msnbc propaganda commercials are the absolute worst. rachel maddow and lawrence odonnel make me want to leave this country. i cannot think of two americans i hate more.

----------


## hillertexas

just saw the ad in Houston!!!  Yay!!!!

----------


## afwjam

Loved seeing that ad! I hope they play it again!

----------


## Inkblots

I saw it, too.  What a great ad!

----------


## Oddone

That version had a flag on a street, the online version had fields etc. Looks like they did a slite edit for different areas?

----------


## Harry96

Major props to whoever in the campaign made that buy. What great timing!

----------


## icon124

Rp commercial just aired woooooot wooooot very nice guys very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## MelissaCato

OMG I'm crying. I just watched Ron Pauls advert on MSNBC.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

HELL YEAH!  The new ad just played on MSNBC!

As a donor to the RP campaign, I just got the warm and fuzzies.

/rant

----------


## Dary

Trust just ran on MSNBC.

----------


## Tom in NYC

Cheered to myself in my living room when the ad came on.  Fantastic stuff.

----------


## flightlesskiwi

> its on!


like donkey kong!

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> Major props to whoever in the campaign made that buy. What great timing!


Hear hear!

----------


## kidal25

Sickkkkkkkkk

----------


## Texan4Life

> Major props to whoever in the campaign made that buy. What great timing!


+1

----------


## Harry96

> msnbc propaganda commercials are the absolute worst. rachel maddow and lawrence odonnel make me want to leave this country. i cannot think of two americans i hate more.


Absolutely. And I don't understand this campaign of theirs; what the hell does "Lean Forward" mean?! If you're just leaning forward, you're still standing in the same place.

----------


## Ranger29860

can someone point me to the direction of a internet stream of the debate please

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

OMG I saw the Ron Paul ad!!! Rongasm.

----------


## Margo37

> That version had a flag on a street, the online version had fields etc. Looks like they did a slite edit for different areas?


LAST line cut off here by a drug commercial,  almost all of the .........and I approved this ad.

----------


## afmatt

> can someone point me to the direction of a internet stream of the debate please


http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#/w/1732153312/5

----------


## Oddone

Now all the mainstream Republicans watching have somthing to think about before the debate!

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> can someone point me to the direction of a internet stream of the debate please


http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#/w/1732153312/5

----------


## devil21

> Cheered to myself in my living room when the ad came on.  Fantastic stuff.


LOL.  I was in the bathroom but I heard it and yelled and laughed when it came on.

----------


## freeforall

can someone repost the live stream link before i lose my marbles over here?

----------


## TexMac

Wow, Ron's ad ran on MSNBC and Twitter ZOOMED!

----------


## Harry96

Lesson from Nixon in 1960: don't Armor All your face right before going on stage.

----------


## green73

Chris Matthews is hard to bear

----------


## tmg19103

Trust ad NATIONWIDE right before the debate! Huge!

----------


## devil21

Oh boy.  They put RP right next to Perry on the stage.  Get ready for some fireworks.

They did the same thing with Bachmann and Pawlenty last debate before they unleashed them on each other.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> can someone repost the live stream link before i lose my marbles over here?


ALTERNATIVE LINK

http://www.shadownet.info/channels/usa/msnbc.html

Hosted outside the US, no DMCA.

----------


## Harry96

I hope Ron helps expose Perry tonight as a moron and a phony. Hopefully Perry's honeymoon will end tonight, and he'll start to plummet in the polls in the aftermath.

----------


## Bruno

Jobs, jobs, jobs!

----------


## Texan4Life

Stream: http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#r=-rid-&s=em

----------


## Ranger29860

I Hope this is better moderated then the last one

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Don't forget 

http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...blican-debate/

----------


## RonPaulVolunteer

Large LIVE Stream: http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/09/ron-p...te-sep-7-2011/

----------


## The Midnight Ride

Perry strikes me as an arrogant frat-boy.

----------


## Ranger29860

> Perry strikes me as an arrogant frat-boy.


Remind you of anybody?

----------


## Harry96

Perry even sounds like Dubya.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Jeez, MUST they start with the Bilderbergs' Rick Perry?

----------


## svobody

Lolol Hi I'm Rick Perry and I"m not going to answer your question

----------


## MJU1983

I already saw a "Romney stare" lol @ Perry.

----------


## Ranger29860

lol i swear to god romney has one face

----------


## kill the banks

> I hope Ron helps expose Perry tonight as a moron and a phony. Hopefully Perry's honeymoon will end tonight, and he'll start to plummet in the polls in the aftermath.


I fully expect his numbers will start to fade sooner or later

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Mittens needs some just for men.

----------


## Ronulus

> lol i swear to god romney has one face


I thought he was two faced.

----------


## RKoho

I'm happy to say I've waited for this debate to see Perry speak, and I'm not impressed!

----------


## The Midnight Ride

> Mittens needs some just for men.


He needs to get out of the sun . . .

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

When I see Mitt Romney with my eyeballs, my mind sees a different image.

SFW.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=the+m...iw=961&bih=720

----------


## anaconda

Perry with good answer on first question. Mittens looks like he dyed his hair...except for the sideburns.

----------


## Inflation

Slick Rick Perry is a stalking horse, his job is to make Mittens look like a viable candidate.

----------


## TexMac

Oops, Mitt needs a reboot.

----------


## Ranger29860

Man please go to someone else

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

Just hearing Perry speak gives me chills. America, do we really want George Bush the third?

----------


## Jingles

They put Romney next to Perry next to Paul. This will be rather interesting.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Wow, MSNBC - is there anyone else on that stage?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

So is Rick Perry saying that government creates better jobs than the private sector?

----------


## svobody

My job creating record is bigger than yours!

----------


## Inflation

It's the Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich comedy hour!

----------


## Ronulus

wow that was big on romneys part. I even clapped on that al gore line.

----------


## svobody

10 minutes in and... nobody has got to talk but Perry and Romney

----------


## Esoteric

They need to clear the stage from everyone but Romney and Perry.. they are subliminally making the rest of the field irrelevant.

----------


## devil21

Shut them up!

----------


## zacharyrow

This is ridiculous, why invite other candidates?

----------


## Suzu

> woot +1!
> 
> stream: http://www.justin.tv/msnbc_hd25#r=-rid-&s=em


Commercials!! Is there any other stream?

----------


## flightlesskiwi

romney perry show.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

IDK guys…looks like Mittens is winning vs. Perry. This is fun.

----------


## Texan4Life

> My job creating record is bigger than yours!


lol

----------


## chudrockz

> Just hearing Perry speak gives me chills. America, do we really want George Bush the third?


We already have him. His initials, without being too specific, are B.O.

----------


## Birdlady

I'm already agitated watching this. haha

----------


## anewvoice

Romney was the first one to mention Perry and Gore in the same sentence

Hell man, could we not turn this into a Romney/Perry love fest?

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

LOVING the Mitt-Perry cat fight

----------


## flightlesskiwi

here we go..  santorum.  bleck

----------


## Ranger29860

Why is santorum and cain even there?

----------


## Harry96

I wish Ron had butted in by saying that government doesn't create jobs.

----------


## RKoho

Santorum always looks constipated, moreso tonight. I think that reason alone will prevent him from going anywhere.

----------


## Texan4Life

santorum and cain? lol

----------


## Havax

Yes let's go from the guys polling in the 30s and 20s and skip over right to Frothy at 1%!

----------


## kill the banks

perry 's body language is like a kid in high school

----------


## devil21

I guess the Fed is "private sector" but damn, can you really call Cain a private sector for life?

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

ok, romney, perry, then santorum and cain...

who took second place in Ames by less than a percentage point?

I'm struggling to not swear.  I might fail.

----------


## Jingles

Santorum does stuff apparently. Everything completely wrong though lol.

----------


## Chainspell

> I'm already agitated watching this. haha


lol

----------


## libertybrewcity

lol! Santorum talking about how he can get democrats to vote for tax cuts.

----------


## Harry96

I hope Hair Club gave Santorum a refund.

----------


## Shane Harris

^perry and romney

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Herman Cains 4 step plan to get to a 4 step plan…edit: looks like its a 9*9*9 plan now. Jeezus.

----------


## Bruno

Cain's favorite word: Bowd

----------


## Harry96

National sales tax?! Replace the income tax with nothing!

----------


## svobody

LOL 10% is good enough for god line was funny. Herman should do stand up

----------


## Bruno

And lastly.....Congressman Paul....

----------


## cucucachu0000

I was excited that ron was in the front but there gonna make him frigan last : (

----------


## Ranger29860

Huntsman REALLY!?!?!

----------


## Matt Collins

*Padding The Stats?*

*Growing government by creating more public sector jobs than private sector jobs is not exactly a "jobs boom."*



 If Governor Perry can credibly claim that he is responsible for Texas:
being a Right to Work state,
    having no state income tax,
    being an energy-producing state,
    having a legislature that only meets every other year,
    and sharing a border with one of our biggest trading partners,
    then he deserves to be president...

    Unfortunately for him, *he cannot take credit for any of that*.


*Rhetoric vs. Reality.*
 According to the Perry campaign website: "Since June 2009, more than 40 percent of the net new jobs created in America have been created in Texas." That's nice but* in reality "Texas**has done worse than the rest of the country since the peak of national unemployment in October 2009*." (TIME)

*But there was substantial job growth. Sort of. If you count government expansion as "job growth."*
    "Texas* has added over a million jobs since the year 2000*, but "*about 300,000 of the new Texas jobs were in government*...*Employment in the state's public sector h**as jumped 19% since 2000**, compared with a 9% rise in the private sector*." (Wall Street Journal)

*How's the public sector "job" growth in Texas now?*
    "*Now layoffs loom*. State budget cuts, championed by Mr. Perry to address a big budget shortfall, are prompting school districts around the state to lay off hundreds of teachers and other workers going into the school year starting next month.The layoffs haven't shown up in federal data, but some economists forecast they may damp the state's vaunted economic growth. And many more jobs are likely to disappear over the next two years as a result of about $15 billion in state budget cuts. " (Wall Street Journal)

*Private sector jobs do exist.*
"Texas, as a state rich in oil and national gas, has also benefited from increases in energy prices that have slowed the economy elsewhere in the country. Higher energy prices have meant more jobs in Texas." (Washington Post) An August report by the Dallas Fed found that every time oil prices rise 10%, Texas gets a 0.5% GDP boost. Would he keep the rest of America in mind with regards to lower gas prices?

*What role have these taxpayer funded pushes played?*
    "Perry has established several massive tax credit issuing funds designed to lure companies from other states. These include the $412 million Texas Enterprise Fund and the $320 million Texas Emerging Technologies Fund." (TIME)

*How did Perry achieve such economic development?*
"The largest fund, the Texas Enterprise Fund (TEF), was created in 2003 and *has awarded some $412 million in subsidies to companies* nominally to create jobs." (TIME) According to the Texas Comptroller, $119 million actually went to companies that did not deliver on job promises. (TexasAhead 201o Report)

*Is that it? No. There is more.*
    "The second major fund under Perrys control, the Texas Emerging Technology Fund (ETF) has also proven controversial since it was created in 2005. It has spent some $320 million on tax credits and other subsidies for high tech companies willing to move to Texas. *An October 2010 investigation by the Dallas Morning News found that $16 million of that money was awarded to companies with investors or officers who are large campaign donors."* (TIME)

*That does not sound like capitalism. Because it isn't. What's happening to these "job growth funds" now?*
    "In April [2011], the state auditor's office called for greater transparency in the fund's management, and some legislators began looking for ways that the fund might be reformed." (Wall Street Journal)

*Taking money from the average taxpayer and giving it those with government connections is NOT capitalism.*
    "*Perry is arguing that the proper model for job creation nationwide* *includes funneling taxpayer money to companies* not only to create jobs but also to develop technologies that will better the world, even if that money has a negligible affect on the unemployment rate or overall per capita prosperity. *Which sounds a lot like what the rest of the Republican presidential field is criticizing Barack Obama for doing*." (TIME)

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

China a currency manipulator! HA!! LMAO…oh man. Jump in Ron!

----------


## svobody

Ron gets no question on jobs, obviously

----------


## libertybrewcity

lol at the big ass airplane in the room

----------


## Esoteric

Softball for Huntsmann.. *This is rigged.*

----------


## afmatt

Let me guess - Ron Paul is the last called?......

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Cain just said "skin in the game."  

LOL.

Oh, yay, Jon Huntsman!

----------


## anewvoice

Empowerment zones?

Okay, Perry, then Romney (10 minutes), then Santorum, then Cain, then Huntsman, now Bachmann

12, 13, 14 minutes and counting, no Ron Paul

15 minutes - Ron Paul

Absolutionist, is that even a word?

----------


## Romulus

Huntsman????????? Santorum????? *facepalm

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> LOL 10% is good enough for god line was funny. Herman should do stand up


I don't care for what Cain wants (obviously) but I do enjoy hearing him speak. I agree.

----------


## Bruno

47th just ain't gonna cut it!  

lmao

----------


## flightlesskiwi

*irritated*

----------


## Harry96

Huntsman has even better hair than Perry and Romney. I'll give him that.

----------


## Romulus

This is a f'ing joke

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Shared the Ron Paul Flix official MSNBC stream

http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/09/ron-p...te-sep-7-2011/

Has Ron Paul not even been on yet?  wow

----------


## svobody

Hahaha Ron last to get a question, classic

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Was Ron Paul invited??

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

WTF? Batwomen wants a constitutional amendment for marriage.

----------


## Harry96

And speaking of hair, WTF is up with Bachmann tonight?! Geez, Louise!

----------


## MelissaCato

> Huntsman REALLY!?!?!


His eyebrows have some crazy movements !!!  LOL

----------


## Ranger29860

lol Bachman doesnt know wtf she is talking about

----------


## devil21

> Cain just said "skin in the game."  
> 
> LOL.


Drink!

----------


## Inflation

I'm a rabid political junkie and *still* don't recognize Huntsman on sight, except by process of elimination.  Nice tan tho.

----------


## anaconda

Huntsman scores on his first question.

----------


## libertybrewcity

look at all that hairspray!

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

I bet they skip Ron Paul for next question.

Edit: Whoops...wrong thankfully.

----------


## Esoteric

c'mon Ron!  drop the "government doesn't create jobs" bomb!

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

I like how MSNBC puts "Campaigned for Carter in '76" next to Bachmann.

----------


## sevin

Maybe they're just saving the best for last.

----------


## kill the banks

> This is a f'ing joke


yup 4thestate is a joke

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

This show is unfathomable.  (Still not swearing...)

----------


## MelissaCato

Ron Paul !!!

----------


## Texan4Life

i guess RP fell into a black hole?

----------


## Bruno

Ron should answer his own question

----------


## Texan4Life

Finally

----------


## Harry96

And an attack on Ron for his first question. Surprise.

----------


## Inflation

Bachmann's hair looks really good.  Not as great as Perry's but still.

----------


## american.swan

TWITTER NOTE: 
Click THIS
http://twitterfall.com/?trend=%23Rea...te%21%23464449

----------


## svobody

What kind of stupid ass question is this? how is this even close to relevant

----------


## MelissaCato

Ron Paul !!

----------


## zacharyrow

Good answer! Stupid question

----------


## Chainspell

damn i didnt think ron paul could answer that one... he was getting boxed! he went to the core of the answer

----------


## devil21

Good answer by RP.  His first answer is usually clunky until he settles down but that was a good answer and put the American people in a position to exercise their smarts.

----------


## Ranger29860

lol i forgot Newt was still in the race

----------


## Shane Harris

there ya go. give ron a completely irrelevent question. god damnit

----------


## kylejack

That was a pretty niche libertarian question for Ron Paul. Something more mainstream, please.

----------


## sunghoko

Ron rocked that question. He looks well rested and fired up.

He took Brian Williams to school when he said it's the lobbyists who are driving the FDA.

----------


## pauliticalfan

awesome answer

----------


## Romulus

clearly, there is a different set of box rules for Ron... they are keeping him above reach from the average voter.

----------


## MJU1983

So everyone gets a job questions EXCEPT Ron Paul. - WTF?

----------


## mac_hine

Great start by the good doc!

----------


## robmpreston

Damn, Paul killed that question.

----------


## libertybrewcity

Gingrich's campaign is so broke, he could only afford a .org domain!

----------


## anaconda

Ron scores high on his first question. Every candidate seems well prepared. Except for maybe mittens.

----------


## Romulus

> Ron should answer his own question


Yeah, Ron needs to reject the frame up.. and address the original question.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Thanks for expressing my sentiments so clearly.

----------


## Texan4Life

> lol i forgot Newt was still in the race


haha me too. I thought RP was last. and they were like  "ok newt i guess we will ask you a question"

----------


## flightlesskiwi

> Bachmann's hair looks really good.  Not as great as Perry's but still.


her hair looks flammable, imo.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

Very effective answer. He was able to turn an attack question back to jobs.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

What the hell was that

----------


## ross11988

They are setting the stage for a Perry/Paul fight. They why they are side by side and why perry was in the frame when Paul was answering the question

----------


## kylejack

They ask every candidate a job question, Ron Paul an irrelevant question, then Gingrich a jobs question. Then the moderator says, "now moving on from jobs..."

WTF?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Who does Rick Perry's debate prep? He keeps cutting off Brian Williams then blurts out random crap.

----------


## Ranger29860

Executive order? damn make your own laws while your at it

----------


## The New Fury

They are only gonna ask him questions like that. "Ron Paul, do you think airplanes should be allowed to kill people?"

He needs to take a jab at someone a la Gulliani in order to get some mic time...

----------


## Romulus

They are keeping Ron in philosophy land.... their strategy... something people are not in to, nor do they understand...

plus not even relevant to "jobs"!!! pissing me offfffffff

----------


## Bruno

Romney is professorial like Obama.

----------


## ctiger2

Did they ask Ron about Heroin yet? /s

----------


## Romulus

call out Liberal Rick Perry!!!!

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> They are setting the stage for a Perry/Paul fight. They why they are side by side and why perry was in the frame when Paul was answering the question


I would pity Perry in any kind of fight with RP, verbal or otherwise.  Ron might be in his 70's, but I get the sense he could still whoop a little ass.

----------


## MelissaCato

WTF I Tweet all day and now I can't send a single Tweet. I'm pissed at Twitter.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> Did they ask Ron about Heroin yet? /s


Prediction: 20 minutes from right now

----------


## Harry96

> Bachmann's hair looks really good.  Not as great as Perry's but still.


Are you high? It looks like her Reagan tie-in for tonight is that he was president the last time she washed it.

----------


## libertybrewcity

Rick Perry=no substance.

----------


## Ronulus

What about hillary's health care plan mr Perry?

----------


## Aldanga

Perry is hard to listen to. And Huntsman again?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Rick Perry again advocating a big state government. Whats to stop him from expanding the federal government?

At this rate I'd expect a drop in Perry's numbers.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> WTF I Tweet all day and now I can't send a single Tweet. I'm pissed at Twitter.


You should see the amount of tweets on the #reagandebate Hashtag... it's dozens per second if not more.

----------


## Romulus

They are really trying to fluff up this Huntsman

----------


## bunklocoempire

So Rick Perry wants to kill people?  C'mon Brian, you'd better get on that....







Bunkloco

----------


## libertybrewcity

Huntsman sucking it up

----------


## Shane Harris

pahahahaa huntsman is SO runnign for VP

----------


## Esoteric

They're pushing huntsmann HARD.  They're trying to peg him against Mitt and Perry

----------


## devil21

Are they trying to push a Huntsman poll bump?  He's getting a lot of time for a guy that probably shouldn't even be on the stage.

----------


## Lord Xar

> They are keeping Ron in philosophy land.... their strategy... something people are not in to, nor do they understand...
> 
> plus not even relevant to "jobs"!!! pissing me offfffffff


Why Ron doesn't say "Why do you think it is fair to me, and the american voters to ask me such questions? If we are talking jobs, ask me about jobs. These gotcha questions are a disservice to this debate". BOOM.

His handlers and Ron himself need to deal with this, because every single debate its the same $#@!. He isn't learning or adapting.

----------


## Ranger29860

> They are really trying to fluff up this Huntsman


They probaly think if thye prop up huntsman they can nip away at pauls numbers

----------


## asurfaholic

huntsman = fake n bake....

get a real tan

----------


## MJU1983

> Are they trying to push a Huntsman poll bump?  He's getting a lot of time for a guy that probably shouldn't even be on the stage.


Totally.

----------


## anaconda

Mittens is smirking at Bachmann.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Huntsman??? Really?????

----------


## Ranger29860

Should long hair not move like that?

----------


## svobody

Whatever you do, don't ask the only medical doctor on stage about healthcare

----------


## Romulus

lol Newt what the hell do you think a debate is?

----------


## Esoteric

newt throwing some haymakers!

----------


## afmatt

> Mittens is smirking at *Everyone*.


Fixed

----------


## MJU1983

> @RonPaul
> "Why Don’t They Ask Ron Paul About Jobs?" -- blog post by Jack Hunter -- http://ht.ly/6oiJF .... #ReaganDebate #GOP2012 #Ronpaul #tcot #tlot


http://twitter.com/#!/RonPaul/status/111596172216516612

^ Retweet.

----------


## Harry96

Regarding my earlier joke, the judges also would've accepted:

Bachmann used 40 cans of hairspray tonight, in honor of our 40th President, the namesake of the great Reagan Library.

----------


## RKoho

Us Paul supporters deserve medals for our ability to sit through all this crap just to hear our man.

----------


## devil21

Wow, good on Newt.  He doesnt cover much policy but he doesnt mind calling out the media's games.

----------


## invisible

I call bull$#@!!  This debate is nothing more than a parrysite lovefest, with a little romney thrown in.  Not even any opening or closing statements, let alone introductions of the candidates.  wtf.  lame.

----------


## zacharyrow

Everyone but Paul!

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

Newt forgets he's not debating the media again LOL

----------


## anaconda

Newt continues to crush it.

----------


## Romulus

> Why Ron doesn't say "Why do you think it is fair to me, and the american voters to ask me such questions? If we are talking jobs, ask me about jobs. These gotcha questions are a disservice to this debate". BOOM.
> 
> His handlers and Ron himself need to deal with this, because every single debate its the same $#@!. He isn't learning or adapting.


He be blamed for 'dodging' though.... bastard fcks

----------


## svobody

Polling top 3 and one bull$#@! unrelated question in 30 minutes

----------


## Texan4Life

lol at rick's "yeah buddy"

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Are these asses on MSNBC going to ask RP another question?  One so far, and it was a BS question

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Nah Newt. I'm only interested in defeating O.B. if Ron Paul is the nominee. Otherwise its another 4 years of the same crap no matter who wins.

----------


## cucucachu0000

Gingrich hates questions

----------


## Matt Collins

*Why Don’t They Ask Ron Paul About Jobs?
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/09/0...ul-about-jobs/*

----------


## Rocket80

Does Newt know what 'debate' means?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Who promoted Huntsman to front runner?

----------


## Romulus

Paul ignored again!

----------


## Texan4Life

so ummm when are they going to let RP talk?

----------


## Harry96

Ron tried to jump in there and they cut him off.

----------


## Lord Xar

I am not watching the debate, how many questions have each received (in general) so far?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

But credit to Newt. He is probably one of the brighter guys on that stage and is not entirely bad compared to some of the alternatives.

----------


## svobody

Yep Ron won't get a healthcare question

----------


## Harry96

More specifically, they cut him off to go to Santorum.

----------


## libertybrewcity

oh god, Santorum makes all other Catholics look bad...

----------


## Esoteric

"santorum administration" lol.. sounds dirty!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Ron Paul the economic expert doesn't get the question about jobs, Ron Paul the Doctor doesn't get the question on healthcare.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Wait - isn't Ron Paul the only doctor on the stage?  Didn't he get into politics BECAUSE of governmental interference in health care?

Perhaps he might have something intelligent to say?

Let's hear from Rick Santorum!

----------


## MJU1983

> http://twitter.com/#!/RonPaul/status/111596172216516612
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				@RonPaul
> "Why Dont They Ask Ron Paul About Jobs?" -- blog post by Jack Hunter -- http://ht.ly/6oiJF .... #ReaganDebate #GOP2012 #Ronpaul #tcot #tlot
> ...


bump.

----------


## Romulus

> Who promoted Huntsman to front runner?


the empty suits

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Seems that they dirty-tricked Mittens by cutting him off. The so-called "moderators" have interrupted and argued with both Ron and Mitt.

----------


## Lucille

Ron tried to interject in the healthcare discussion, but Williams went to Santorum.  The only physician on stage, and they skip him.

30 minutes in, and he's had one question.

----------


## kill the banks

it's sad I know msn is one of the worst for blacking out Ron

----------


## Buchananite

Newt killed them, loved it.

Freaking Obama nut huggers

----------


## Jdagucci

lmfao this is bull $#@! yo

----------


## devil21

> Wait - isn't Ron Paul the only doctor on the stage?  Didn't he get into politics BECAUSE of governmental interference in health care?
> 
> Perhaps he might have something intelligent to say?
> 
> Let's hear from Rick Santorum!


Actually it was his economic studies that led him to run for Congress.

----------


## Lucille

Oh f' this.

----------


## zacharyrow

Lol, RON IS THIRD NATIONALLY! I hate the media.

----------


## svobody

Lol back to Perry
Ron should just walk off the stage

----------


## hillertexas

bull$#@!

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

Getting pissed!!!

----------


## Birdlady

This is becoming too much for me to watch. I think my blood pressure is rising.

----------


## pauliticalfan

there's something WRONG with this picture...

----------


## Romulus

Here come's the bull$#@!

----------


## Harry96

> Ron Paul the economic expert doesn't get the question about jobs, Ron Paul the Doctor doesn't get the question on healthcare.


THIS. So far, Ron has received one question, which was an attempt to scare the dumbed-down public by asking if he'd abolish the FDA and the FAA.

----------


## devil21

Ron paul polls third is nearly every recent national poll yet he gets ignored while 1% huntsman and 1% santorum get more questions.  $#@! the media!

----------


## anewvoice

> bull$#@!


His patience in dealing with this type of garbage is unreal.

----------


## MJU1983

> Ron Paul the economic expert doesn't get the question about jobs, Ron Paul the Doctor doesn't get the question on healthcare.


Turned that into a Tweet: http://twitter.com/#!/mju1983/status/111597761505402880

----------


## Lord Xar

Well, if Ron is not gonna interject about him being a doctor etc.. what can you do. He isn't taking it by the horns.. this is the same ol' bull$#@! from last time. The thing is this, if they are gonna treat him so shamelessly, he should have no druthers in just interjecting like "As the only doctor on this stage, let me talk about healthcare"... etc.. or something. During break, why aren't his handlers taking care of $#@!ing business.

----------


## svobody

You already said that rick

----------


## amyre

> This is becoming too much for me to watch. I think my blood pressure is rising.


Soooo ridiculous.  I don't know if I'll make it to the end.

----------


## Ranger29860

> This is becoming too much for me to watch. I think my blood pressure is rising.


I would think i would get used to this more after each debate. But it is jsut getting worse the more debates there are

----------


## devil21

Ron paul polls third is nearly every recent national poll yet he gets ignored while 1% huntsman and 1% santorum get more questions.  $#@! the media!

It shows they are terrified of Paul.

----------


## Romulus

Ok I'm about to turn this $#@! off and watch the highlights from MoxNews

----------


## Inkblots

Geez, no question for Ron that round.  Everyone else got one.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Get the dollar to gold and you solved all of these increasing price problems. Its not that hard.

----------


## runamuck

Didn't we just go through an entire series of news stories about how Ron is ignored by the mainstream media? If anyone doesn't see it clear as day in this debate, they are a fool.

----------


## RonPaul101.com

> Ron paul polls third is nearly every recent national poll yet he gets ignored while 1% huntsman and 1% santorum get more questions.  $#@! the media!


I swear the establishment pays Santorum and Huntsman tupes to stay in and get their share of TV time, so its another voice away from Ron Paul. This is making sick.

----------


## Birdlady

Yep... He was completely skipped over.




> Geez, no question for Ron that round.  Everyone else got one.

----------


## devil21

These people should be ashamed.

----------


## flightlesskiwi

this is ridiculous.  but what's new.

----------


## dannno

Well if it isn't obvious to everyone watching who is being ignored....

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Where's Gary? Huntsman gets front runner status, Johnson gets the finger...

----------


## ItsTime

Ron tried to get in on healthcare but they cut him off....then skipped him.

----------


## Harald

I found that establishment channels (NBC, CNN) to be less fair to Ron Paul than Fox News.

----------


## Romulus

Ok, this is so obvious........


Don't you think people are wondering WHY RP is being ignored?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

I hope Jon Stewart is on this tomorrow.

----------


## Inkblots

> Ron paul polls third is nearly every recent national poll yet he gets ignored while 1% huntsman and 1% santorum get more questions.  $#@! the media!
> 
> It shows they are terrified of Paul.


They're saving his questions for the foreign policy section.  They don't want to give him questions on the economy and job creation, because the GOP base will like his answers on those.  They think by only asking him foreign policy questions, they can hurt him with the base.

----------


## green73

Evil

----------


## svobody

Prediction, next question Ron gets is about nuclear iran

----------


## speciallyblend

just tuned in, did i miss anything?? looking at posts. I guess not!

----------


## dannno

2% Huntsman again?!

----------


## SlowSki

this is so ridiculous.

----------


## zacharyrow

This is worse than any other debate, including four years ago.

----------


## RKoho

> Ok I'm about to turn this $#@! off and watch the highlights from MoxNews


 I'm about to join you on that one. They don't deserve ratings.

----------


## Esoteric

Come ON now.. this is getting ABSURD!

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Holy $#@!! ANOTHER question for Huntsman? This is insane.

----------


## Ranger29860

HUNTSMAN AGAIN!!!!!! /ragequit

----------


## devil21

I need a cigarette before I throw something at the tv.  back soon    maybe

----------


## Romulus

> These people should be ashamed.


but they are not

----------


## dannno

> just tuned in, did i miss anything?? looking at posts. I guess not!


They asked him a question about federal regulations, that's it.. and like 3 or 4 or 5 questions for each other candidate..

----------


## Dlynne

> Evil


Agree. I am fuming.

----------


## Inflation

> But credit to Newt. He is probably one of the brighter guys on that stage and is not entirely bad compared to some of the alternatives.


Newt is what is passed off these days as an elder GOP statesman.  He's one hell of a debater, but still an insider with massive baggage.

Too bad the Zionist Nutjob Wing of the party won't allow recognition of the brilliant contributions Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan have made.

----------


## RonPaul101.com

And these $#@!s (MSNBC) are "suppose" to dislike establishment Republicans. yeah right; its not R's versus D's its establishment versus Ron Paul. This "debate" is becoming a media paid establishment commercial.

----------


## Razmear

Just waiting for them to ask Ron about legalizing drugs for his next question, you know it's gonna be a cheap shot question coming up for him. Hopefully he redirects back to heathcare regardless of what they ask him next.

----------


## Inkblots

> Ron tried to get in on healthcare but they cut him off....then skipped him.


Yeah, it's not like the only doctor on stage might have something to say about healthcare.  God help us.

----------


## tmg19103

Liberals like Huntsman and so does MSNBC. what they are to to RP is a disagrace.

----------


## Esoteric

And they cut to Ron just to show him wiping his nose.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

Huntsman gets more time! I've had it with this crap.

----------


## libertybrewcity

They'll give Ron Paul questions, but in the second hour when half the nation stops watching. I hate the MSM

----------


## green73

What's Huntsman polling? 1%?

----------


## dannno

Woohoo!! Minimum wage!!

----------


## MarcNY

No real claps for these clowns.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Is someone counting how many questions each candidate gets asked?

----------


## zacharyrow

Tell 'em Ron Paul!

----------


## Ranger29860

good question!

----------


## kylejack

Another fringe question for Paul. Ugh. 

NICE TRANSITION BY PAUL.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

Oh snap! Dr. Paul just set off a truth bomb! WOOHOO!

----------


## Ranger29860

OMG way to go paul

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Oh $#@! - Ron's pissed off.

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

He brought up hillarycare! Booyah!!!!

----------


## dfalken

Go Ron!  $#@! these media $#@!s.

----------


## zacharyrow

Ron paul!!

----------


## eleganz

holy crap guys, Ron Paul just owned this minimum wage segment, first hitting the moderator with the physician/healthcare correlation and hitting up hilarycare.  BOOYAH!

----------


## Ronulus

politico $#@!. "No paul you can't talk"

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Hell yeah ron! Silver and gold booyeah!

----------


## Paulite

thats it im done with this .

----------


## dannno

Oh no he didn't!!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

oh dam

----------


## Join The Paul Side

Look at Ron highjack the debate! Go Ron go!

----------


## Ranger29860

omg pick a fight with ron please do it!

----------


## Buchananite

Bam bam bam

----------


## Harry96

Ron took the bull by the horns, responded to all of the lines of questioning he was skipped over, took a shot at Perry, and now Perry took the bait and is mixing it up with him.

----------


## Esoteric

He didn't hit the reagan quesiton hard enough.. smh.. the line was supposed to be..

"I was too conservative, even for the republican establishment under reagan"

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Ron Paul won over some Liberals…trust me on that one.

----------


## kill the banks

not bad Ron

----------


## libertybrewcity

Ron just kicked butt. I love that man!

----------


## SilentBull

This is going horribly! That could have gone a lot better.

----------


## Patriot123

Paul just committed political suicide... he criticized Reagan in the Reagan Library.

----------


## speciallyblend

ron paul responded well.

----------


## afmatt

Ron Paul OWNED that response and they break with enough time for those watching to chew on it. Great!

----------


## green73

That would have been a good time to squeeze in Perry's support for Gore

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> politico $#@!. "No paul you can't talk"


Who is that douchebag?

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> Look at Ron highjack the debate! Go Ron go!


Ron did not hijack the debate, sir.  If the ship is heading toward the rocks, someone must fight the sea and affect a right turn.

----------


## crhoades

Shouldve said that while i was supporting reagan you were campaign chairman of gore.

----------


## jware

He should have mentioned Perry's ties to Al Gore...other than that, great answer.

----------


## cucucachu0000

killed it!

----------


## bunklocoempire

Silver dime!  FTW!!  

Truth rears it's head!  Woot!


Bunkloco

----------


## Romulus

Glad to see him swinging....

although the inflation bit went over everyone's head I'm afraid.

----------


## LudwigVonMisoSoup

Can someone post a recap for someone at work but not watching?

----------


## TulsaRevolution

"Funny thing about the mail..."

He is going to bring up the newsletters

----------


## alsis8xmy

I silver dime for GAS!!! PRICELESS!!

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

I never get sweaty hands... yet when Ron talks at debates I always get it. Just want this man to win so BAD!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

We are seeing a much different, more aggressive Ron Paul than 2008.  ME LIKEY

----------


## Tunink

He responded very well, showing that he stands on principles instead of popularity. What's right is right, those that disagree need to watch Clear, and Present Danger for a reference.

----------


## willwash

FUUUUUUCK!

My browser crashed in the middle of Ron's response about Ronald Reagan!

----------


## RonPaul101.com

Ron Paul is way too polite, must have been raised by his parents well. He shouldn't try to hurry his answers or ask for my time; just do like the others and speak at your own pace and ignore the moderators when they say hurry up. THEY KNOW Ron will be polite, pause, ask nicely... $#@! that already, just press on and ignore them as they do you.

Just to note, they haven't cut off anyone else at 30 seconds tonight. Romney and Perry each got 3.5 mins to start.

----------


## Shane Harris

like a breath of fresh air. thank you for standing up for yourself ron

----------


## bb_dg

Ron is doing great! They ignored him on healthcare and gas and he got back in there! I'm getting aroused!!!

----------


## Inflation

> Ron took the bull by the horns, responded to all of the lines of questioning he was skipped over, took a shot at Perry, and now Perry took the bait and is mixing it up with him.


27 HIT COMBO!!!

----------


## RKoho

> When Perry brought up a letter I got scared he was going to pull the race card (you know what I'm talking about) *phew*


 Yea... geez. We do not need that bullet hitting us. But Perry wouldn't want that kind of war from what I hear.

----------


## DrN0

Wow, RP doesn't handle direct confrontation very well does he? He should have said "It's better than chairing Al Gore's campaign."

----------


## SilentBull

Sorry, guys but Ron Paul missed a great opportunity there. Is Ron not the only one on stage to have ever been endorsed by Reagan? Why does that not come out?

----------


## anewvoice

Silver dime, worth $3.50, nice!  The issue is regulation and inflation.

Way to grab the Ronald Reagan letter, force them to let you respond.  And who was teh $#@! "it's rules" that wasn't going to let him speak?

The Reagan message is great, hope that comes back up again.

----------


## svobody

> Ron Paul is way too polite, must have been raised by his parents well. He shouldn't try to hurry his answers or ask for my time; just do like the others and speak at your own pace and ignore the moderators when they say hurry up. THEY KNOW Ron will be polite, pause, ask nicely... $#@! that already, just press on and ignore them as they do you.
> 
> Just to note, they haven't cut off anyone else at 30 seconds tonight. Romney and Perry each got 3.5 mins to start.


They will cut ron off and kill his mic to make him look bad if they have to

----------


## kylejack

> Shouldve said that while i was supporting reagan you were campaign chairman of gore.


Not actually true. Ron Paul was disillusioned with Reagan by that time.

----------


## Buchananite

Paul/Perry is now the tone moving forward.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Please disregard this post.

----------


## CaptUSA

Not sure how the Reagan criticism went over...  Sounded good at the beginning, but then sounded like he was downing Reagan...  I don't know if everyone can draw the distinction.

----------


## MarcNY

Perry landed a nasty blow about a Letter that Paul must have wrote Reagan.

----------


## Patrick Henry

He is doing good tonight.

----------


## greeksta59

AHHHHH Atleast he got to make up for the times he missed. He needs to slow down just a bit, think b4 he speaks. Getting all jumbled. Calm Ron, Calm  LOVE YOU!!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Paul just committed political suicide... he criticized Reagan in the Reagan Library.


I think that demonstrates fortitude.  I don't think it will hurt, and it will probably help.  Ron Paul isn't meek, he's brave. Brave as hell.  People want Presidents that are brave.

----------


## AlexMerced

> Ron is doing great! They ignored him on healthcare and gas and he got back in there! I'm getting aroused!!!


same here

----------


## Romulus

> Ron Paul is way too polite, must have been raised by his parents well. He shouldn't try to hurry his answers or ask for my time; just do like the others and speak at your own pace and ignore the moderators when they say hurry up. THEY KNOW Ron will be polite, pause, ask nicely... $#@! that already, just press on and ignore them as they do you.
> 
> Just to note, they haven't cut off anyone else at 30 seconds tonight. Romney and Perry each got 3.5 mins to start.


Yeah, different set of rules for him

----------


## flightlesskiwi

the 10 cents issue was a great point.  hopeful it will make people think.

----------


## mac_hine

When Ron's had the rare opportunity to speak he's been on point. I think this is his strongest performance so far, this early in a debate. Just wait till he heats up a little.

This might just be one of those nights, like when MJ dropped 63 against Boston. I'm feeling it!

----------


## Ranger29860

> Can someone post a recap for someone at work but not watching?


Ron was asked about minumum wage spent about 10 seconds saying he wants it gone. Then went on a epic rant calling out the moderators for ignoring him. Then talked about being a doctr and knowing about medicare followedu pwith saying he can do better than 2 dollars a gallon of gas he can do 10 cents!

Following this he talked about silver and inflation.He aslo hit perry hard on his hillary care connection. Perry took the bait and confronted him about the resignation letter he followed up with a good repsonse about supporting regans message

----------


## Join The Paul Side

> Ron did not hijack the debate, sir.  If the ship is heading toward the rocks, someone must fight the sea and affect a right turn.


They are trying to cut him out of the important topics. He got his two cents in by taking it.

----------


## dannno

> Ron is doing great! They ignored him on healthcare and gas and he got back in there! *I'm getting aroused!!!*


lol, that's awesome.. thanks for lightening the mood

----------


## foofighter20x

Paul missed a great opportunity on that Reagan question. He disagreed with Reagan in 87 because Reagan went to Washington and it changed him. Reagan compromised with the Democrats. Paul's been in and out of Washington for 22 terms and it hasn't changed him one bit.

----------


## MarcNY

This links works in google chrome to watch online: http://www.politico.com/2012-electio...blican-debate/

----------


## SilentBull

He shouldn't have said "wasn't all that great"

----------


## dfalken

If the US population can't see how ridiculous this has become at this point and how the media is completely trying to influence the election because the one's in control absolutely fear Ron Paul, then the US people deserve to elect one of the other idiots in that panel and they deserve the economic armagedon that is just around the corner.  A nation of idiots.  I am watching this stupidity online because I don't have a tv signal since I never watch TV and I've just been strongly reminded of why I don't watch TV.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Now, after this tribute is when RP needs to drop the RR endorsement bomb.

----------


## anaconda

Was that Moby music for the Mrs. Reagan tribute?

----------


## Matt Collins

*Rick Perry: Anything but Conservative on Health Care
Aside from his praise for Hillary’s proposals in a 1993 letter, calling them “most commendable” and “worthy” (Politico), here are a few reasons for real conservatives to reject Perry’s faux stances on health care:

Perry Sought to Pioneer Bi-National Health Care In 2001… that is, health care for citizens on both sides of the southern border.
Perry At a Border Summit Speech:

There are other challenges that require a unified approach, especially in the area of health care. …In Texas, we recently placed a strong emphasis on preventative care when we expanded access to Medicaid for more low-income children by making the Medicaid enrollment process simpler. We allocated an additional $4 billion to the Medicaid program, and more than $900 million to the Children’s Health Insurance Program. I urged legislators to pass a telemedicine pilot program that will enable, through technology, a sick border resident of limited financial means to receive care from a specialist hundreds of miles away. But the effort to combat disease and illness requires greater cooperative efforts between our two nations. It is a simple truth that disease knows no boundaries. … We have much to gain if we work together to expand preventative care, and treat maladies unique to this region.

Legislation authored by border legislators Pat Haggerty and Eddie Lucio establishes an important study that will look at the feasibility of bi-national health insurance. This study recognizes that the Mexican and U.S. sides of the border compose one region, and we must address health care problems throughout that region. That’s why I am also excited that Texas Secretary of State Henry Cuellar is working on an initiative that could extend the benefits of telemedicine to individuals living on the Mexican side of the border.

Did you notice something else in the speech excerpt?  Yes, Perry DID expand state health programs:
In 1999, Lt. Governor Perry supported $27.4 billion in health care appropriations, an increase of $1.1 billion. He also backed an increase of $53 million for mental health services and $145 million for Child Protective Services. (HB 1, 76th) Lt. Governor Perry also backed legislation providing an $87 million increase for childcare programs and an additional $71 million for Welfare-to-Work Grants. (HB 1, 76th)   

In 2001, Governor Perry signed a $34 billion appropriation for health services, an increase of $5 billion. He also approved a $76 million increase for the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program and other public health programs. Governor Perry supported a $19 million increase in Temporary Aid for Needy Families (TANF) and a $20 million increase for Child Protective Services. (SB 1, 77th)

In 1999, Lt. Governor Perry worked to pass a budget which included $18 billion in Medicaid funding, an increase of $838 million. Lt. Governor Perry supported increased funding of $63.4 for the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program. (HB 1, 76th)Lt. Governor Perry also supported legislation to prevent fraud of Medicaid and Medicaid Managed Care, and a new law directing the state auditor to conduct a biennial study on fraudulent healthcare claims. (SB 1589, 76th) In 2001, Governor Perry signed a budget increasing Medicaid funding by $4.3 billion, including $970 million for acute care community care and nursing facility rate increases. Governor Perry also backed measures increasing efficiency in the Medicaid program, which will realize $205 million in Medicaid cost containment. The governor supported Medicaid simplification to increase personal responsibility for Medicaid recipients. (SB 1, 77th) 

In 1999, Lt. Governor Perry supported the creation of the Children’s Health Insurance Program and backed $179 million in tobacco settlement funds to provide low-cost health insurance for children of working families. HB 1, 76th  In 2001, Governor Perry also supported expanding the CHIP program by authorizing another $263 million for the program. SB 1, 77th In its first 18 months, the Texas CHIP program enrolled 480,000 Texas children, more and faster than any other state in the nation.


-          Document on Perry for Governor Website in 2002
*

----------


## anewvoice

> Perry landed a nasty blow about a Letter that Paul must have wrote Reagan.


The letter is known, and it is not damaging.  Ron Paul handled that well!

----------


## LudwigVonMisoSoup

> Ron was asked about minumum wage spent about 10 seconds saying he wants it gone. Then went on a epic rant calling out the moderators for ignoring him. Then talked about being a doctr and knowing about medicare followedu pwith saying he can do better than 2 dollars a gallon of gas he can do 10 cents!
> 
> Following this he talked about silver and inflation.He aslo hit perry hard on his hillary care connection. Perry took the bait and confronted him about the resignation letter he followed up with a good repsonse about supporting regans message


You the man. Thanks!

----------


## Tim724

I don't know....my first impressions on these debates are always too emotionally charged and not balanced, but this is not going great. Not horrible. But it's very wobbly. The effort to ignore him is just disgusting. But without enough time to respond to each issue Dr Paul is a bit off kitler and not able to totally bring it home. Only 15 min left. It seems a YouTube compilation of all Dr Paul's answers is going to be much shorter than from other debates. MSNBC is really disgusting.

----------


## green73

zzzzzzzzz stato worship

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Wow, they found the only photo of Reagan ever taken where he resembled Huntsman, and featured it at the start of this Reagan tribute...

----------


## speciallyblend

ron paul would you legalize drugs,  i can see that being the next ?

----------


## bunklocoempire

If I want info on the library I'll search for it.  



Bunkloco

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Oh crap. Forgot Nancy did just say no. Can't wait for the inevitable heroin question.

----------


## SilentBull

> I don't know....my first impressions on these debates are always too emotionally charged and not balanced, but this is not going great. Not horrible. But it's very wobbly. The effort to ignore him is just disgusting. But without enough time to respond to each issue Dr Paul is a bit off kitler and not able to totally bring it home. Only 15 min left. It seems a YouTube compilation of all Dr Paul's answers is going to be much shorter than from other debates. MSNBC is really disgusting.


There's actually an hour left. We'll see if it changes. I'm not happy so far.

----------


## Harry96

I thought he answered the question well: he supported Reagan's rhetoric when Reagan was running, but Reagan's actions in office didn't live up to the rhetoric -- which is true.

----------


## Romulus

Oh Congrats to Perry on his Book!!!! What a fuking boot licker!

----------


## Verrater

> Can someone post a recap for someone at work but not watching?


+1

----------


## driller80545

As usual, no one is listening to what RP has to say. I am sick of this $#@!.

----------


## Matt Collins

"Outlines of 'HillaryCare' were known before @GovernorRickPerry wrote letter praising reform effort": http://ht.ly/6ojgV

----------


## bunklocoempire

Ron doesn't have any books does he? /s


Bunkloco

----------


## runningdiz

> Perry landed a nasty blow about a Letter that Paul must have wrote Reagan.


He tried to but Ron knew it was coming and was ready.

----------


## carmaphob

By the looks of it, Nancy Reagan doesn't seem to know what's going on.

----------


## Romulus

lol @ rick perry mentioning the status quo

----------


## SilentBull

> He tried to but Ron knew it was coming and was ready.


He was ready, but was too nervous and knew he didn't have a lot of time.

----------


## Harry96

> By the looks of it, Nancy Reagan doesn't seem to know what's going on.


Eh. She's in her 90s.

----------


## Ronulus

Oh Mr Perry let me ask you another question after asking you 2 prior questions and after this i'll give you time to rebuttle so the american people can see you talking more. - Politico $#@!.

----------


## Ranger29860

> By the looks of it, Nancy Reagan doesn't seem to know what's going on.


lol i did not know she was there took a LOT of guts for paul to say that. He has more guts then all thos e canidates combined

----------


## Romulus

> As usual, no one is listening to what RP has to say. I am sick of this $#@!.


He's too good for us...

----------


## anaconda

The guy at the table with Williams is really annoying. He must have had his lunch money stolen too many times in grade school..

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> They are trying to cut him out of the important topics. He got his two cents in by taking it.


...and I'm damn glad he did!  Any one of us wouldn't have had the patience of RP and would have done so much sooner.  Good on him.

----------


## speciallyblend

romney smokin a blunt? let's be blunt

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Since when is the "moderator" an active aggressor in a Presidential debate? This guy is an ultra-douche.

----------


## runamuck

I think Ron has the best solution for Social Security - LET ME GET OUT OF IT!

----------


## tmg19103

MSNBC is being fairest to the most moderate Republicans - Romney and Huntsman. Asshats.

----------


## devil21

The Romney and Perry show.

----------


## Ronulus

This whole debate is issues Ron has been talking about for years, except now we are getting wolves in sheeps clothing to tell us that they are their own views.

----------


## Birdlady

They just gave Perry a 30 second rebuttal for no reason. wtf

----------


## Romulus

Dr. Paul you would end all of government... how would poor and old people eat?

----------


## Matt Collins

_Ron Paul Explains Reagan Conservatism -- a blog by Jack Hunter: http://ht.ly/6ojtI_

----------


## GunnyFreedom

ne question to Ron Paul on Social Security?

----------


## svobody

Why did they even invite the other people on stage?

----------


## zacharyrow

> Dr. Paul you would end all of government... how would poor and old people eat?


With their hands

----------


## RKoho

I actually gained a tiny bit of respect for Romney for having his own position on SS. I'm glad he didn't wuss out and copy Paul there too.

----------


## bunklocoempire

"The Dating Game" had a better system of questions & answers.




Bunkloco

----------


## RonPaul101.com

> Sorry, guys but Ron Paul missed a great opportunity there. Is Ron not the only one on stage to have ever been endorsed by Reagan? Why does that not come out?


It better by the end of the debate...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Ron is doing great!  

The "jobs" drinking thing isn't working out so well.

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

I would not say this likely... but this debate is *rigged* for the top two.

----------


## Shane Harris

this is painful. always set up perry and romney for rebuttals

----------


## bunklocoempire

Boogie chilean?



Bunkloco

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

RP needs to just break in.

----------


## Ranger29860

lol yes go after perry!

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Governor Gardisil!

----------


## RonPaul101.com

Based on this debate as a sampling I think Perry's IQ may even be behind George W Bush's.

----------


## MarcNY

Ron Paul is not going to be given the time, just take it.

----------


## therealist

What's wrong with Ron Paul's voice??????

----------


## SilentBull

Paul just got another chance, and blew it. WTF!

----------


## Ronulus

Ok paul your done, this is bachmanns territory now! - politico.

----------


## Esoteric

Where's the applause?! That was awesome!

----------


## speciallyblend

nicey slam slam slam

----------


## Matt Collins

*PERRY AND HILLARYCARE*

*During An Interview On Sean Hannity’s Radio Show On August 30, Perry Said He Signed A Letter Praising Hillary Clinton’s Health Reform Efforts Before The Full Scope Of Her Plan Was Known**:*

*In A Letter To Hillary Clinton In 1993, Then-Texas Agriculture Commissioner Perry Praised The Then-First Lady’s Efforts On Health Care Reform.* “Texas Governor Rick Perry has been among the most vocal critics of President Obama’s health care reform initiative, and of Mitt Romney’s preceding health care program in Massachusetts. But in 1993, while serving as Texas Agriculture Commissioner, Perry praised the efforts of then-first lady Hillary Clinton to reform health care, a precursor to Obama’s health care reform efforts.” (Alexis Levinson And Caroline May, “Rick Perry’s Camp Defends 1993 HillaryCare Praise,” _The Daily Caller_, 8/30/11)

·         *Perry To Hillary:* *“I Think Your Efforts In Trying To Reform The Nation’s Health Care System Are Most Commendable.”* (Alexis Levinson And Caroline May, “Rick Perry’s Camp Defends 1993 HillaryCare Praise,” _The Daily Caller_, 8/30/11)

·         *Perry’s Letter Was Dated April 6, 1993:*



*During An Interview On Sean Hannity’s Radio Show On August 30, Perry Said That He Had No Idea Of The “Monstrosity” That The Clinton Health Care Reform Bill Would Become At The Time He The Letter.* “And, [Perry] said, at the time he wrote the letter, he did not know what a ‘monstrosity’ Clinton’s final proposal would be. ‘I had no idea that was going to be the end product. What I thought they were truly going to work towards was trying to reform health care, and we had no idea.‘ he said.” (Caroline May, “Perry Hits Back: Obama’s Policies Are ‘Dumb’,” _The Daily Caller_, 8/30/11)

·         *Listen To The Interview Here:* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUc7JpPqEFc

*However, An Article That Was Published Before He Signed The Letter Said Aspects Such As An Employer Mandate Were Already Known Parts Of The Clinton Health Plan**:*

*Los Angeles Times* *On April 5, 1993: The Clinton Plan Would Mandate That Employers Provide Their Workers With Health Insurance.* “Barring unexpected hitches, the Clinton plan also will: (…) Phase in a requirement for employers to provide workers with health insurance, with government subsidies to help the smaller businesses.” (Edwin Chen, “Shape Of New Health Plan Is Emerging,” _Los Angeles Times_, 4/5/93)

*Los Angeles Times* *On April 5, 1993: The Key To The Hillary Clinton Health Care Plan Would Have Been The Creation Of Regional Health Insurance Cooperatives.* “The key to making this concept work nationally is the creation of government-certified regional health insurance purchasing cooperatives. Most Americans would be grouped into the large cooperatives, with consumers able to choose from a variety of insurance networks -- ranging from HMOs to traditional fee-for-service plans that allow the patient to choose any physician.”(Edwin Chen, “Shape Of New Health Plan Is Emerging,” _Los Angeles Times_, 4/5/93)

·         *Los Angeles Times* *On April 5, 1993: While The States Were To Be Given Latitude, Some Smaller And More Rural States Would Be Allowed To Set Up Single-Payer Systems.* “Within the federal system, states will be given considerable latitude. In small states and rural states, where size rules out the existence of more than one provider network, states may be empowered to set statewide rates in an arrangement known as a single-payer system.” (Edwin Chen, “Shape Of New Health Plan Is Emerging,” _Los Angeles Times_, 4/5/93)

*Los Angeles Times* *On April 5, 1993: Clinton’s Plan Would Guarantee A Basic Set Of Benefits For Everyone Including Mental Health Care And Prescription Drug Coverage.*“Barring unexpected hitches, the Clinton plan also will: Guarantee that a uniform package of basic benefits will be available to everyone, although not all the uninsured will get this coverage right away. Among the basic benefits would be hospital and doctor services, including mental health care, and some prescription drug coverage.” (Edwin Chen, “Shape Of New Health Plan Is Emerging,” _Los Angeles Times_, 4/5/93)

*Los Angeles Times* *On April 5, 1993: The Clinton Plan Would Bar Insurers From Refusing To Cover People With Pre-Existing Conditions.* “Barring unexpected hitches, the Clinton plan also will: (…) Create a standardized insurance form and bar insurers from refusing to cover people with pre-existing medical conditions, in order to enable people to change jobs -- and insurers -- without fear of losing coverage.” (Edwin Chen, “Shape Of New Health Plan Is Emerging,” _Los Angeles Times_, 4/5/93)

----------


## devil21

Lets talk about a sexually transmitted disease as if it's a national crisis and concern.

Ron seems to be avoiding the Perry-Gore connection.

----------


## Shane Harris

ron let michele steal the right answer about hpv

----------


## libertybrewcity

yay Ron!

----------


## Romulus

Bachmann channeling Paul

----------


## Birdlady

/sigh They totally gave him a chance there. Not good.

----------


## Tiger35

Ron Shoulda jumped on that Social Security and thrown in the wars as a way to pay. End the Wars. Ron looks good though but so biased in format. 
They are all co-opting the message on some level.

----------


## libertybrewcity

Bachmann is talking but her words don't make any sense.

----------


## Bruno

he isn't comfortable "attacking" .  this is new, uncharted, but necessary ground to cover.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

They set up Dr. Paul for an attack on Perry. He did okay, but wasn't nearly as strong as he could've been there.

----------


## MarcNY

They should tear up that Perry and forced injections.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Ron was getting at the Rick Perry is acting more as a king than part of our balance of power republic.

----------


## runamuck

I honestly don't know why I watch these debates.... Ron already has my support. I don't need to sit here listening to these fools, while people pose questions to Ron to twist his views.

----------


## DrN0

We need to give RP a hydrocodone before the debates so he can relax a bit.

----------


## kylejack

Ron Paul had a chance there to hit him on everything and only hit him on HPV. Kind of disappointing.

----------


## libertybrewcity

did Perry actually have an opt out?

----------


## Philmanoman

"I hate cancer"  ~ Rick Perry

----------


## Ranger29860

How can you make a law to force vaccinations then say there is an opt out?

----------


## Matt Collins

*Rick Perry Cronyism Creates Serious Risks for Texas Girls*

*In 2007, Perry Issued An Executive Order Mandating That All Sixth-Grade Girls In Texas Receive A Controversial STD Vaccine Called Gardasil.* 
 “Perry chose to *bypass the legislature* and on Feb. 2, 2007, he issued an executive order making Texas the first state in the country requiring all sixth-grade girls to receive the three-shot [Gardasil, produced by Merck] vaccination series … Conservatives slammed Perry for promoting what they saw as an intrusion by the state into private health decisions of parents and their children.” (Tom Bevan, “Rick Perry’s Gardasil Problem.” Real Clear Politics. June 14, 2011)

*The National Vaccine Information Center And The Journal Of American Medicine Have Raised Questions About The Safety Of Gardasil.* 
“Two years later the National Vaccine Information Center issued a report raising *serious questions over the harmful side effects of the drug*. A few months after that, an editorial on Gardasil in the Journal of the American Medical Association declared that ‘serious questions regarding the overall effectiveness of the vaccine needed to be answered and that more long-term studies were called for.” (Tom Bevan, “Rick Perry’s Gardasil Problem.” Real Clear Politics. June 14, 2011)

*Former Perry Chief of Staff Mike Toomey Was A Lobbyist For Merck When Perry Issued The Order*
“Mr. Toomey was a *lobbyist for Merck* when Mr. Perry issued a 2007 executive order requiring all sixth-grade girls in Texas to be vaccinated against the sexually transmitted human papillomavirus, the leading cause of cervical cancer.  At the time, the only approved vaccine was Gardasil, made by Merck.”  (Ross Ramsey, “Perry’s Legion: The Folks Behind The Man.” Texas Tribune/New York Times, July 31, 2011)

*In 2006, Merck Contributed $5,000 To Perry’s Campaign On The Same Day Perry’s Chief of Staff “Met With Key Aides” To Discuss The HPV Vaccine*
“Gov. Rick Perry’s chief of staff met with key aides about the human papillomavirus vaccine the same day its manufacturer donated money to his campaign, documents obtained by _The Associated Press_ show. Chief of staff Deirdre Delisi’s calendar shows she met with the governor’s budget director and three members of his office for an ‘HPV Vaccine for Children Briefing’ on Oct. 16. *That day, New Jersey-based Merck & Co.’s political action committee donated $5,000 to Perry* and $5,000 total to eight state lawmakers.” (Liz Austin Peterson, “Perry Staff Discussed Vaccine On Day Of Merck Donation,” The Associated Press/The Statesman, February 22, 2007)

*And after lawmakers voted down his HPV order, Perry held a news conference with cancer victims and tore into legislators, accusing them of sacrificing lives for political reasons:*

*Austin American Statesman: “Perry Laid Blame For Future Cervical Cancer Deaths At The Feet Of Lawmakers Who Supported The Bill.”*  “In an emotional speech to reporters Tuesday, during which the governor surrounded himself with women whose lives have been affected by the cancer-causing injection, Perry laid blame for future cervical cancer deaths at the feet of lawmakers who supported the bill. … Perry thanked the minority of legislators who voted against the bill and said, ‘No lost lives will occupy the confines of their conscience, sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.” (Corrie Maclaggan, “Perry lets HPV bill go into law Bill would overturn his mandate,” Austin American Statesman. May 9, 2007)

----------


## tfurrh

Perryfest

----------


## libertybrewcity

Santorum's facial expression..lol

----------


## Ranger29860

> did Perry actually have an opt out?


From my understanding it was never required but he said it was so it was opt out by knowledge

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

Dr. Paul should have interjected after Perry. Maybe something about erring on the side of Constitutional law.

----------


## svobody

I dono where the points are gonna go, but this debate isn't doing Perry any favors

----------


## speciallyblend

santorum just slapped down perry

----------


## alsis8xmy

Santorum draws major Perry blood...nice

----------


## libertybrewcity

Perry has an evil look because he is evil

----------


## PeteinLA

Hehe, Santorum just said tight ends....

----------


## Patrick Henry

"I hate cancer."

----------


## libertybrewcity

Perry should do a cheerleadering act in place of his closing statement. after all it's all just an act anyways.

----------


## therealist

Romney is so fake

----------


## SilentBull

Let's get real here. Ron is not doing well. They gave him a great chance there to talk about welfare to illegals and to bring up Al Gore.

----------


## Ranger29860

romney is just baiting for applause

----------


## Romulus

wtf Newt are you talking about out of left field?????

----------


## therealist

Dont buy into the neocon cheerleading by Newt, Ron Paul is not one of them

----------


## libertybrewcity

Newt changing the subject! L

----------


## Ronulus

Oh gingrinch....... we do not need the homeland security.

----------


## svobody

> Let's get real here. Ron is not doing well. They gave him a great chance there to talk about welfare to illegals and to bring up Al Gore.


Yup, still 45 minutes left though, let's see what happens

----------


## bunklocoempire

Here ya go, 'ave a bit o' fear..


Bunkloco

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Ron needs to get mad and channel his inner $#@!.  This is bull$#@!.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

My bet is Mittens gets whatever Rick looses…which might be a bit.

----------


## therealist

Fight the tsa

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> "I hate cancer."


Lol! Political nonsense.

----------


## Endthefednow

Come on you are on Ron one more time to hit it out of the park!!!

----------


## SilentBull

I hope the last 45 minutes are better. Paul always does better in the second half.

----------


## kylejack

Fema coming

----------


## Esoteric

Fema

----------


## Arklatex

> We need to give RP a hydrocodone before the debates so he can relax a bit.


haha, is it strange I was thinking the same thing!!!  Have faith.

----------


## dannno

TSA and now FEMA, woot!!

----------


## knightk

Here they go.. giving him 30 seconds on fema..

----------


## MelissaCato

Ron Paul !!

----------


## therealist

Best answer so far from Ron Paul

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Here comes the FEMA question.

----------


## Chieppa1

fema

----------


## MarcNY

Here it is, FEMA question.

----------


## devil21

Look at the smirk on Ron's face.  He knows all these snipe questions are coming before they even ask them.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

"OMG, the world will end if there is no FEMA!!!!'

----------


## LibertasPraesidium

"conditioned people to build in higher risk areas"

----------


## Tod

Perry's goin' DOWN!  If Newt didn't have the baggage, he'd be doing a LOT better.  Disagree with him or not, he is a good speaker and sharp as a whip.  Dr. Paul really needs to hit some home runs if he wants to make progress.

----------


## RKoho

Wow, Romney is softballing and saving Perry! He's probably just hoping Perry saves him in the future.

----------


## kylejack

THIS. This is the right answer in my opinion. FEMA is a trivial expense compared to foreign adventurism.

----------


## dannno

Get rid of the AC in Afghanistan and the troops will want to come home, rofl!!

----------


## Romulus

lol Cain says there's enough money to go around JUMP IN RON JUMP IN RON!!!!

----------


## parocks

The 2nd hour.  Ron Paul gives a good answer on FEMA.

----------


## Endthefednow

We must keep the 
Gov as Big as Possible and create more Federal Jobs.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

good job on the fema question, ron.

----------


## svobody

LOL @ the a/c thing

----------


## sevin

"I believe there's enough money to go around." - Herman Cain

lol

----------


## MelissaCato

V*I*C*T*O*R*Y that's our victory Battle Cry !!!  Ron Paul !!!

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> Perry's goin' DOWN!  If Newt didn't have the baggage, he'd be doing a LOT better.  Disagree with him or not, he is a good speaker and sharp as a whip.  Dr. Paul really needs to hit some home runs if he wants to make progress.


Yup. I honestly dont understand why Newt doesn't have better numbers. He's pretty darn intelligent..just not right on everything.

----------


## therealist

Cain is a nice guy, but i hate how he enunciates words

----------


## speciallyblend

> Get rid of the AC in Afghanistan and the troops will want to come home, rofl!!


nice one

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Herman Cain wants the government to fix a problem that the government created.

----------


## Jdagucci

this crowd blows ass

----------


## Romulus

wtf Huntsmann talking to Rick?

----------


## speciallyblend

hunstman drop out

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

Cain finally served a useful purpose there, supporting Dr. Paul's position.


P.S. Bachmann is kind of getting assed out in this debate. lol!

----------


## Ranger29860

good lord eyebrows are driving me crazy

----------


## libertybrewcity

the only good thing about Huntsman is his yellow tie

----------


## Romulus

> this crowd blows ass


Absolutely

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Only fascists have a Homeland (Fatherland, Motherland).  Just sayin.  Eat me, Jon Huntaman.

----------


## georgiaboy

> "I believe there's enough money to go around." - Herman Cain
> 
> lol


spoken like a former Fed official.

----------


## anaconda

That one moderator guy (not Williams) is really annoying. He must have had his lunch money stolen too many times in grade school..

----------


## Santangelost

Romney is really soft

----------


## therealist

lol @ Perry the Pinata

----------


## Matt Collins

*Politico Reports That Perry Voted For Carter In 1980 And CNN Recently Reported On Perry’s Claim That He “Didn’t Support” Reagan In 1980:
*
*A South Carolina Voter Says Perry Recently Told Him He “Didn’t Support” Reagan In Either 1976 Or 1980.* “One man in Greenville confronted the candidate about his ties to the other party and later told CNN that Perry acknowledged he didn't support Ronald Reagan in 1976 and 1980.” (Shawna Shepherd, “Perry Defends Stance On Fed, Immigration,” CNN, 8/21/11)

*“Perry … Has Said He Voted For Jimmy Carter In 1980.”* (Politico.com, 9/6/11)
*Perry Has Long Admitted Voting For Carter In 1976.* “Texas Agriculture Commissioner Rick Perry … told delegates that he and his family voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976 because they thought he would be good for them and other farmers. ‘We were dead wrong,’ Perry said.” (_The Houston Chronicle_, 8/19/92)

*During The Reagan Administration, Perry Was A “High-Profile” Backer Of Al Gore For President:*
*Perry Was A “High-Profile Texas Supporter” Of Al Gore’s 1988 Presidential Campaign.*“Perry has been fielding uncomfortable questions about his support for Al Gore in the 1988 presidential race. Perry, who did not switch to the Republican Party until 1989, served as a high-profile Texas supporter of Gore’s presidential bid.” (Michael Falcone, “Rick Perry’s Defense Of 1988 Al Gore Endorsement Runs Into Reality,” ABCNews.com, 8/31/11)

*Perry’s Explanations For Supporting Gore Have Come Under Scrutiny.* “Perry frequently cites Gore’s support of the Strategic Defense Initiative, a Ronald Reagan-era anti-ballistic missile proposal that later came to be known as Star Wars. … Last weekend, at a campaign appearance in Ottumwa, Iowa, Perry called Gore a ‘strong Strategic Defense Initiative proponent.’ But Gore’s support for the Strategic Defense Initiative while he was running for president in the late 1980′s was not nearly as enthusiastic as Perry implies. In fact, just weeks before Gore launched his presidential bid in the summer of 1987 he dismissed the defense proposal as ‘an electronic Astrodome over the United States’…” (Michael Falcone, “Rick Perry’s Defense Of 1988 Al Gore Endorsement Runs Into Reality,” ABCNews.com, 8/31/11)

----------


## anaconda

> the only good thing about Huntsman is his yellow tie


Some seriously great ties on the stage tonight.

----------


## Harry96

The premise of all of Williams' questions is that the sky would fall without government dominating everything.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> Absolutely


After the Ames debate, that was filled with RP supporters in the audience, MSNBC made damn certain that none of us ended up in the audience.

It's all about control, Romulus.  Hello again, by the way - hope you're having a good evening!

----------


## sorianofan

The Republican Party obviously has no interest in scaling back Federal Government.  They want to "fix it."

----------


## anaconda

I like Santorum's tie.

----------


## zacharyrow

"Mexicans are dumb!"

- Rick Perry

----------


## amjwh99

"the ebay"

----------


## Esoteric

they don't hand-pick the crowd without reason

----------


## eleganz

Wow, Perry got destroyed on gardasil and Huntsman can't stay on topic...lol.

----------


## sorianofan

> Herman Cain wants the government to fix a problem that the government created.


+1

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> "Rick Perry is dumb!"
> 
> - Fixed


:-)

----------


## libertybrewcity

Newt supports the Department of Education!!!! ahahhahahaha

----------


## Harry96

> The Republican Party obviously has no interest in scaling back Federal Government.  They want to "fix it."


THIS. Fixing government is like promising to make water that's dry.

----------


## LibertasPraesidium

More choice = get rid of DOE

----------


## RP Supporter

The good news of this is Bachmann is speaking even less then Paul. This might be what finishes her as  a factor in the race.

----------


## LibertasPraesidium

I hope so bachman supporters in MN will go with Ron Paul

----------


## therealist

Bachmann = persona non gratae

----------


## MelissaCato

I'm pissed I can't Twitter.

----------


## green73

Bachmann's getting the Paul treatment now

----------


## Romulus

Predator drones flying in the US - great job Perry!

----------


## Esoteric

*They have now cut to Ron Paul 3 times at inappropriate times.*

----------


## anewvoice

Rick Perry wants to secure his own states border with federal employees, interesting.

----------


## Ranger29860

> Predator drones flying in the US - great job Perry!


yeah i kinda had to take a step back when i heard that

----------


## Bruno

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...54#post3536554

Who's in? I'm donating $100 after the debate tonight! 

Let's reward Ron and the campaign for a great performance and a kickass last few days of press following the ad and Benson's response to Perry

----------


## eleganz

dont forget to keep searching and get RonPaul trending as much as possible everywhere.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Ron Paul should interrupt and answer this guy in fluent Spanish.

----------


## Endthefednow

OMG Terrorists will come over the unsecured border!!

----------


## Harry96

"A welfare state is afraid of every poor person who can get in and of every rich person who can get out." - Harry Browne

----------


## foofighter20x

THE FENCE!

----------


## sorianofan

> THIS. Fixing government is like promising to make water that's dry.


Tell me about it.  I lived just fine before we had Homeland Security giving out green cards like candy and allowing muslim young men to come on in and student visas 10 years after 911 (and if you accept the official position, this is the direct cause of 911.)

----------


## devil21

tinfoil hat on here but Perry is standing in a perfect Masonic stance with feet at a perfect 90 degree angle.

----------


## anewvoice

Great use of twitter by the campaign by the way

----------


## Romulus

Everyone who is with Reagan raise their hand

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

This is such bull. Ron has a heart of gold sticking through this $#@!.

----------


## therealist

Rick Santorum should learn American history

----------


## Matt Collins

_Reform the DHS and TSA?
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/09/0...e-dhs-and-tsa/_

----------


## svobody

Anybody tracking the talking time?

----------


## RonPaul101.com

Based on this debate as a sampling I think Perry's IQ may even be behind George W Bush's.

----------


## sorianofan

Let's secure our border by not inflaming  our enemies overseas.

----------


## Bruno

Why vote for Rick Perry who is trying to act like Ron Paul-lite, when you can actually get the man who is truly against the status quo, will protect your liberty, and won't just pay the Constitution lip-service?

----------


## therealist

The USA supplies drugs to the terrorists in Mexico

----------


## Inflation

Bachmann, the winner of the Iowa Straw Poll, should be given more time.

I know many of us hate her, but it's hypocritical to complain about Dr Paul's lack of proportionate coverage while laughing at and celebrating Rep. Bachmann's disenfranchisement.

That kind of asshat behavior makes it harder to win over her supporters and sympathizers.

----------


## libertybrewcity

Oh no! the narcoterrorists will kill us all!

----------


## Ranger29860

What about canada?

----------


## svobody

lol is narco-terrorists gonna be the new bogeyman?

----------


## Ronulus

> The USA supplies drugs to the terrorists in Mexico


and weapons.

----------


## anewvoice

did she just get a rebuttle to herself?

----------


## sorianofan

Good answer by Bachman.

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

I'm afraid we're not making a good impression tonight. From Twitter...




> I'm sorry, Ron Paul just sounds like a crazy old man.





> Just a reminder: "I want to totally disassociate myself from the Reagan Administration." - Ron Paul (May 10, 1988) #ReaganDebate





> ron paul would never, EVER force your teenage daughter to do anything, except have a baby if she is pregnant





> Dr. Ron Paul: Vaccinations against #cancer is "not good medicine"





> Ron Paul has been told to smile, quit being cranky. It's not working. #ReaganDebate





> If your home floods, Ron Paul will send you a pack of straws and a Ziplock bag.... LOL #GOPDebate

----------


## Chieppa1

this debate is so much better on mute.

----------


## bubbleboy

I must have missed something.   Ron sucked.

----------


## georgiaboy

> Bachmann, the winner of the Iowa Straw Poll, should be given more time.
> 
> I know many of us hate her, but it's hypocritical to complain about Dr Paul's lack of proportionate coverage while laughing at and celebrating Rep. Bachmann's disenfranchisement.


agree.

----------


## devil21

> Oh no! the narcoterrorists will kill us all!


Here's a solution.  Stop the ATF from giving them guns.

----------


## Matt Collins

*Perry’s Real Record on Illegal Immigration*
*True Pioneer of the Dream Act*

“Perry has been criticized by some fellow conservatives as being too lenient on undocumented immigration issues.” Huffington Post

*In June 2011, Perry signed a bill to give illegal immigrants in-state tuition.*
“In 2001, Perry signed into law the first state “DREAM Act,” which allows children of illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition at state universities…” Union Leader

*In 2007, Perry said he would oppose efforts to repeal the law.*
“Gov. Rick Perry said Thursday he will oppose efforts to repeal a law, which he signed six years ago, giving tuition breaks to illegal immigrants attending state universities.” Houston Chronicle

*During The Fall Semester Of 2009, Over 12,000 Students Took Advantage Of The Law.*
“During the fall semester, 12,138 students - about 1 percent of all Texas college students - benefited from the state law granting in-state tuition, according to the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.  Most of the immigrants among those students are illegal, and some others are not legal permanent residents or U.S. citizens.” Dallas Morning News

*Recipients Collected Roughly $33 Million In Financial Aid Between 2004 And  2008:*
“Texas awarded about $33.6 million in state and institutional financial aid to those students between fall 2004 and summer 2008.” Dallas Morning News

*...While Texas Sustains Huge Deficits:
*“House legislators were forced to rely on spending cuts to close the shortfall -- estimated at between $15 billion and $27 billion…”  “Some 60,000 students would lose financial aid for college.*” * CNN

*Nancy Pelosi and Rick Perry are quite the pair:*

Democratic Speaker Nancy Pelosi on the DREAM Act:
“…'The DREAM Act itself symbolizes what it is to be an American.' It's about equality; it's about opportunity; it's about the future." Source: Office of The Speaker of the House

----------


## sorianofan

> Bachmann, the winner of the Iowa Straw Poll, should be given more time.
> 
> I know many of us hate her, but it's hypocritical to complain about Dr Paul's lack of proportionate coverage while laughing at and celebrating Rep. Bachmann's disenfranchisement.


She's neo-con, but not establishment.  They want to stop her.

----------


## TNforPaul45

*deepdish*

----------


## Romulus

999 plan!

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Listening to Bachmann makes me want to hurt myself, to distract myself from the pain of listening to that banshee's cry

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Boots on the ground, boots on the ground. Looking like a fool with your boots on the ground.

----------


## Chieppa1

We never do well on Twitter. Who is shocked by that really? Anyone who spends some time on there knows its a den of ignorance.

----------


## Chainspell

this debate is $#@!ed up

----------


## Razmear

Will Ron get snubbed again? Place your bets

----------


## svobody

Nah, don't ask the congressman from the border state

----------


## bunklocoempire

> Boots on the ground, boots on the ground. Looking like a fool with your boots on the ground.


Lol!

Bunkloco

----------


## Ranger29860

> We never do well on Twitter. Who is shocked by that really? Anyone who spends some time on there knows its a den of ignorance.


The internet as a hole is a den of ignorance :P

----------


## ross11988

Thank god. Best for last

----------


## kylejack

Oh Ron, no birthright citizenship chat please...

----------


## therealist

legalize drugs

----------


## SilentBull

Why did ron paul say that???

----------


## devil21

Good answer by RP there.

----------


## dannno

OMFG!!

Ron Paul just talked about the possibility of them using the border fences to keep US IN!!

WOW!

----------


## sorianofan

Ron Paul just got some Alex Jones cred with that response.

----------


## Harry96

> She's neo-con, but not establishment.  They want to stop her.


I've noticed the media narrative lately has been Perry vs. Romney only. I think she was inserted earlier this year as a fake Ron Paul, but since Ron's hard metrics are basically tied with hers, it makes the bias of covering her and ignoring him too obvious, especially after Ames.

----------


## ross11988

Oh Ron. Keeping us in? You lost the audience with that

----------


## SilentBull

Get ready: Ron Paul the conspiracy nut.

----------


## libertybrewcity

that was an unnecessary comment about keeping us in.

----------


## sorianofan

> Ron Paul just got some Alex Jones cred with that response.


BTW, that's a bad thing...

----------


## Romulus

Ron is better w/o the notes

----------


## Tunink

boom!

----------


## Cdn_for_liberty

that fence answer sounds too conspiratorial and won't win over the mainstream

why not go with the usual "bring our troops home to patrol the border" line?

----------


## bunklocoempire

Truth squeezes out again!



Bunkloco

----------


## svobody

I hope that comment about the fences being used to keep us in made some people in the audience think

----------


## RKoho

> OMFG!!
> 
> Ron Paul just talked about the possibility of them using the border fences to keep US IN!!
> 
> WOW!


 Yea...

----------


## Razmear

Trying to speak as fast as he thinks again, needed to take a breath before answering that one.

----------


## Inflation

> Listening to Bachmann makes me want to hurt myself, to distract myself from the pain of listening to that banshee's cry


That sounds like the Freepers who can't think of a better argument against Ron Paul than 'OMG his voice is so HIGH-PITCHED and WHINEY!'

Have you ever tried raising the level of discourse?  You might enjoy the experience.

----------


## pauliticalfan

Ron Paul just went full Alex Jones....

----------


## apropos

Interesting thought by Paul!

----------


## Bruno

I have been to east berlin. That wall kept people in.

----------


## Chieppa1

> Ron Paul just got some Alex Jones cred with that response.


He also got the history student vote.

----------


## sorianofan

> I've noticed the media narrative lately has been Perry vs. Romney only. I think she was inserted earlier this year as a fake Ron Paul, but since Ron's hard metrics are basically tied with hers, it makes the bias of covering her and ignoring him too obvious, especially after Ames.


She's only said nice things about Ron, I genuinely think that she's a good hearted, power hungry megalomaniac.

----------


## kylejack

> that fence answer sounds too conspiratorial and won't win over the mainstream
> 
> why not go with the usual "bring our troops home to patrol the border" line?


The thing is, though, is that it's illegal under Posse Comitatus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

----------


## Esoteric

Come ON RON!  Fences to keep US IN?  My politically apathetic roomate was like WTF?

----------


## eduardo89

> Ron Paul just went full Alex Jones....


Noooooooooooo Ron! Whyyyyy?!?!?!?!?

----------


## AlexMerced

oh geez... ugh... this was not Ron Pauls night, it was probably good he didn't get more questions, I'm just hoping Cain or Huntsman dented Perry so this race stay competitive so we can fight another day.

----------


## Chainspell

DAMNIT!! ron paul is so real and realistic he sounds crazy.....

damn damn this world we live in. generations from now his name is gonna be a legend.

----------


## RKoho

> I hope that comment about the fences being used to keep us in made some people in the audience think



 It made him sound conspiratorial. Watch the media use it to play up the 'crank, crazy Paul' narrative.

----------


## Badger Paul

_I hope that comment about the fences being used to keep us in made some people in the audience think 
_

Un-huh, it made me think.

----------


## Corto_Maltese

Peter Schiff mentioned it a lot in his senate bid. They are correct of course and I hope the people see it.

----------


## sorianofan

> He also got the history student vote.


So that's me, you, and 13 other people in America.

----------


## bluesc

Dammit. I hate MSNBC. I hated the "it will be used to keep us in" comment. What's going on??

----------


## TheBlackPeterSchiff

Did Ron Paul ..is trending.

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

> Ron is better w/o the notes


Yes, I agree. I notice him looking down during a sentence and I feel it is putting him off his stride.

----------


## foofighter20x

> that was an unnecessary comment about keeping us in.


Happened for over 20 years in Berlin. It's no stretch of the imagination on his part.

----------


## anewvoice

the problem with many of his answers is he tries to put 3 topics in all at once.  I don't think that's what America is all about was nice.  

Keep in mind that a fence keeps us in... That's going to blow some minds, might be used to say he's engaging in conspiracy theories, but it is a thought provokin statement.

Benefits cause illegal immigration, border fence is unAmerican, fences keep us in as well as bad guys out

Wish he would have noted that Perry gives benefits to illegal immigrants too, was an opportunity

----------


## devil21

I thought it was a fine response that hopefully will get people thinking about alternate uses of things that government pushes.  Do people really think everything government does is for their _benefit_?  I guess MSNBC viewers might but I know better.

eta:  Btw, note the downers on this thread like PastaTroll.  Trolls are around trying to bring your enthusiasm down.  Don't fall for it.

----------


## Romulus

> that was an unnecessary comment about keeping us in.


Yeah... not a good angle really..

btw, that was Jesse Venture who said the fence will keep us in....

I agree with idea, but politically....not good....

----------


## bunklocoempire

> He also got the history student vote.


+ rep


Bunkloco

----------


## speciallyblend

ron just kicked ass, you nay sayers are trippin!!

----------


## Harry96

> that was an unnecessary comment about keeping us in.


Are you people out of your minds?! That was an awesome -- and very accurate -- observation. It was the elephant in the room with all of that fence talk, and Ron manned up and said it.

----------


## low preference guy

> fences keeping us in.  Going a little conspiracy there.  not against hearing about that. sininster government.


they're already trying to keep the rich in. just read about all the taxes you have to pay to renounce citizenship.

----------


## therealist

Ron Paul should have emphasized changing the drug policy in terms of narco-terorism


say no to Alex Jones

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> I hope that comment about the fences being used to keep us in made some people in the audience think


Americans don't know how to think unfortunately.

----------


## Brett85

Very bad answer by Ron on the immigration issue.  Advocating for open borders in a GOP primary isn't going to work.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

I don't like Dr. Paul dropping a comment like that without the time to explain what he means in detail. I think it just confuses people.

----------


## svobody

Um, I don't think he literally meant a border fence would be used to keep us in, but rather that the police state, as a creation, can and will ultimately be used against the citizenry, not the intended targets. See: Patriot Act, used in Drug War instead of Terrorism War. Hopefully he goes back and explains that.

----------


## Buchananite

That fence comment made me cringe

----------


## ctiger2

> Come ON RON!  Fences to keep US IN?  My politically apathetic roomate was like WTF?


Wait til your roommate experiences CAPITAL CONTROLS. Most of us haven't experienced it....YET.

----------


## YumYum

The answer about barbed-wire fences was the best answer yet by Ron. I have contended that at some point America will be like North Korea, and we will not be allowed to leave when the economy falls further.

----------


## ross11988

We really need something to happen within the next 20 min or were toast

----------


## specsaregood

> Are you people out of your minds?! That was an awesome -- and very accurate -- observation. It was the elephant in the room with all of that fence talk, and Ron manned up and said it.


He just made a LOT of wealthy republicans think about the fence from a different POV.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> That sounds like the Freepers who can't think of a better argument against Ron Paul than 'OMG his voice is so HIGH-PITCHED and WHINEY!'
> 
> Have you ever tried raising the level of discourse?  You might enjoy the experience.


Okay.  I disagree with Ms. Bachmann's policies.  Also, her voice makes my ears bleed, as does Sarah Palin's.  They both sound like Kyle's mom from South Park.

Lighten up, friend.  Good evening.

----------


## speciallyblend

> Are you people out of your minds?! That was an awesome -- and very accurate -- observation. It was the elephant in the room with all of that fence talk, and Ron manned up and said it.


i heard it and me and my wife are like wow, ron just told it how it is and many agree, ron just hit the nail on the head and i want the media to cover it!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> OMFG!!
> 
> Ron Paul just talked about the possibility of them using the border fences to keep US IN!!
> 
> WOW!


Jesse Ventura said the same exact thing... multiple times.  be nice to cover the control of government at ever second of your lives. Dictating the rules and cost to the people when .gov controls it all.

People should never allow such schemes... just like the gun and drug running in Mexico Central and South America.


NOTE: lower level has plenty of open seats.

----------


## zacharyrow

You guys are so over dramatic, jeez. I don't think that line was bad at all, it made me think. I hope it makes everyone else think. 

Every debate I say this. Don't criticize Ron Paul for telling the truth, criticize the people for not knowing the truth.

----------


## TheBlackPeterSchiff

Well atleast Ron Paul is trending on twitter now.




> danielwanke Daniel Wanke
> Did Ron Paul just suggest border security is really a conspiracy to build a giant panic room? #reagandebate

----------


## Napolitanic Wars

I'd like to hear some seasoned RPF members commenting. So far only 2007-08 people (with few posts) are commenting, and they are all saying bad things.

----------


## Ranger29860

omg tea party really!

----------


## Jdagucci

well this night sucked for all us...smh man this some bull $#@! tho

----------


## therealist

we're trying to win over these sheep, not scare them away

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> *PERRY AND HILLARYCARE*
> 
> *During An Interview On Sean Hannitys Radio Show On August 30, Perry Said He Signed A Letter Praising Hillary Clintons Health Reform Efforts Before The Full Scope Of Her Plan Was Known**:*
> 
> *In A Letter To Hillary Clinton In 1993, Then-Texas Agriculture Commissioner Perry Praised The Then-First Ladys Efforts On Health Care Reform.* Texas Governor Rick Perry has been among the most vocal critics of President Obamas health care reform initiative, and of Mitt Romneys preceding health care program in Massachusetts. But in 1993, while serving as Texas Agriculture Commissioner, Perry praised the efforts of then-first lady Hillary Clinton to reform health care, a precursor to Obamas health care reform efforts. (Alexis Levinson And Caroline May, Rick Perrys Camp Defends 1993 HillaryCare Praise, _The Daily Caller_, 8/30/11)
> 
> ·         *Perry To Hillary:* *I Think Your Efforts In Trying To Reform The Nations Health Care System Are Most Commendable.* (Alexis Levinson And Caroline May, Rick Perrys Camp Defends 1993 HillaryCare Praise, _The Daily Caller_, 8/30/11)
> 
> ·         *Perrys Letter Was Dated April 6, 1993:*
> ...


You know you're preaching to the choir, right?

----------


## Romulus

Perry rips off Rand!

----------


## musicmax

> Ron Paul just got some *Alex Jones cred* with that response.


Oxymoron alert.

----------


## devil21

> Very bad answer by Ron on the immigration issue.  Advocating for open borders in a GOP primary isn't going to work.


Where the $#@! did you get that from?  Stop making things up.  Go away.

----------


## Chainspell

Romney works for rick perry

----------


## undergroundrr

Super courageous.  The "fence keeps us in" line will be the most remembered and talked-about moment of tonight's debate.

----------


## therealist

its true what they say....you really cant fix stupid

that boy Rick is as dumb as a doorknob

----------


## newbitech

East Berlin, West Berlin.  When countries start building walls to ISOLATE themselves from other people, it STOPS people from being able to go where they want.  Think of the blow back creating a wall towards mexico would cause!

Ron Paul is not an isolationist, and he does not have an isolationist foreign policy.  People who want to build walls, and sentries against are neighbors are the real isolationist.

----------


## Brett85

> Where the $#@! did you get that from?  Stop making things up.  Go away.


I'm saying it came across that way to the average voter.  Go eat a dick.

----------


## sorianofan

> I'd like to hear some seasoned RPF members commenting. So far only 2007-08 people (with few posts) are commenting, and they are all saying bad things.


We're the old guard...

----------


## Tunink

Everyone saying Ron is a off for saying what he said about the fence: Ever heard of the Berlin Wall?

----------


## AlexMerced

from an electoral point of view... Perry is dominating, his posture is confident, his answers are crisp and easy to understand, and he's obvious got his opponent scared... damn you rick perry... again, hopefully Cain and Huntsman who had some decent moments tonight were able to take some Perry momentum so we can give it another shot later this month.

----------


## ItsTime

It will blow over. No biggie.

----------


## therealist

Huntsman might be still working on a pledge LOL

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

1% Huntsman gets plenty of questioning and time.

HUNTSMAN is FULL OF $#@!...


I never heard HUNSTMAN say anything about stopping Nation Building and AFGHANISTAN before 2011.

PANDERERS

----------


## MaxPower

I cringed when Ron started talking about the fences keeping us in; it will feed strongly into the old "Ron-Paul-is-a-conspiracy-nut" meme. I wish he had stuck to his usual talking points about bringing the troops home to secure our own borders and whatnot.

----------


## tfurrh

Guys guys guys, calm down. I think Ron is doing awesome. This is his best performance since the SC debate.

----------


## SilentBull

Unfortunately, Americans are just too freaking dumb to understand that something like that can happen here.

----------


## sorianofan

> from an electoral point of view... Perry is dominating, his posture is confident, his answers are crisp and easy to understand, and he's obvious got his opponent scared... damn you rick perry... again, hopefully Cain and Huntsman who had some decent moments tonight were able to take some Perry momentum so we can give it another shot later this month.


I think that Gingrich is the winner.

----------


## therealist

innocence shattered? We went into the Philippines and murdered a million people in 1900

----------


## SilentBull

> Guys guys guys, calm down. I think Ron is doing awesome. This is his best performance since the SC debate.


Which debate were you watching?

----------


## BuddyRey

I wouldn't have been as candid as Ron was with that border fence answer, but that's the thing I love about Ron; he tells it like it is and pulls NO punches!

----------


## rprprs

> I don't like Dr. Paul dropping a comment like that without the time to explain what he means in detail. I think it just confuses people.


Unfortunately...the same problem exists with all the issues presented during these "debates".

----------


## devil21

> I'm saying it came across that way to the average voter.  Go eat a dick.


Nonsense and just more of your backhanded crap on this forum.  He never said anything remotely related to open borders.  You're a troll and it's interesting to see who the trolls are popping up at the end of the debate with all negativity.  Your true colors are showing.

----------


## sorianofan

> 1% Huntsman gets plenty of questioning and time.


True, total BS.

----------


## angelatc

I just threw up in my mouth a little.  Romney saying bring the troops home?

----------


## IndianaPolitico

I thought the answer Ron gave about the fence was good. I think he should of hit the fact that the excuse for the Berlin wall was that "It will keep the bad guys out."

----------


## DrN0

> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...54#post3536554
> 
> Who's in? I'm donating $100 after the debate tonight! 
> 
> Let's reward Ron and the campaign for a great performance and a kickass last few days of press following the ad and Benson's response to Perry


Also, note how they are ALL throwing in Ron Paul-isms, like bring troops home (Huntsman - out of nowhere!), "free markets", "free trade", etc...

----------


## Arklatex

I think he should use his time to drop the truth bomb.  Stop playing along with their game and tell it like it is.  He isn't running for congress any longer, time to tell the truth.  Talk about the media, the party and these clowns.  Let everyone know how things really are.  That will resonate.  Explaining 100 mph in 30 seconds is what they want, instead just talk slow and reveal.

----------


## Matt Collins

*Doubling debt, balancing books through accounting tricks*
Rick Perry Doubled Texas’ Debt, Then Balanced Budget Through Accounting Gimmicks

*Texas debt has doubled under Perry*
According to the Texas Bond Review Board's annual reports, Texas had $34.08 billion in outstanding bonds and notes as of Aug. 31 — the end of the 2009 fiscal year.
Perry took office Dec. 21, 2000 — nearly five months into fiscal year 2001. At the end of that year, Texas had $13.7 billion in outstanding bonds and notes. Adjusting for inflation, that would have equaled $16.6 billion in 2009.
Politifact 4.10.10

Texas spending kept rising for years with Perry as governor (*spending through 2011, adjusted for population and inflation, rose more on average while Perry has been in charge than it did under his predecessor, George W. Bush*). “Perry took the reins in December 2000. From then until 2011, *spending increased an average of 16.8 percent every two years*. Once adjusted for population and inflation, that rate falls to 4.2 percent.”

*Texas Debt to GDP ratio - 18.6%*
Debt Clock

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

This is a very good opportunity for RP to shine, if they bother to ask him for his input...

----------


## SilentBull

> Everyone saying Ron is a off for saying what he said about the fence: Ever heard of the Berlin Wall?


Have you ever heard of American voters? It's not people like you and me that we are worried about. Understand the audience that just watched him say that.

----------


## tremendoustie

I think ron's performance has been outstanding thus far.

----------


## TheBlackPeterSchiff

> Everyone saying Ron is a off for saying what he said about the fence: Ever heard of the Berlin Wall?


You obviously do not understand how the American Public works today. They only comprehend soundbites. 

Here is a sample of the chatter on twitter.




> Davoh Dave O'Hara
> Did Ron Paul just say that asking everyone to get vaccinations is "not good medicine"? Really?





> blogdiva Liza Sabater
> RT @EliClifton: Ron Paul - "The fence will be used to keep us in." Did he just cross over into black-helicopter territory?





> DaveMaass Dave Maass
> Did Ron Paul just say we should take away the troops' A/C?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> DAMNIT!! ron paul is so real and realistic he sounds crazy.....
> 
> damn damn this world we live in. generations from now his name is gonna be a legend.


I hear you, but come on, guys.  Why is this bad?  Why?  I thought Ron did great (so far, it's not over).  Why are you all so pessimistic and so nit-picky?  Ron had a great answer on immigration, on the economy, on Rick Perry, I thought he did great.  He's just speaking hard truth, and we all know that hasn't been popular per se, but that's our message, like it or not.  Ron articulated it pretty well tonight.  We expect too much.

----------


## Badger Paul

Looks like we've got a conservative-libertarian split here on "keep us in"

----------


## Ronulus

after 5 minutes "Time governor"

----------


## therealist

Venture capitalists arent interested in making jobs, they want profits. Romney a complete phony

----------


## Razmear

Wow, they just dialed Perry more tan. Wierd

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Ronald Reagan doesn't support fences on the border. He did tell Gorbachev  to tear down a border fence.

----------


## kill the banks

> Super courageous.  The "fence keeps us in" line will be the most remembered and talked-about moment of tonight's debate.


in a true sense of what the neocons want it is history ringing the liberty bell

----------


## sorianofan

This is the worst RP debate performance ever.  He's polling 3rd, he's a front runner.  He needs to act like it, and tell the truth about foreign policy.

----------


## Harry96

I'm absolutely appalled at how many of you think that fence comment was bad. A fence or wall that's able to keep people out, assuming that such a thing could -- much less should -- be built, could also be used to keep us in. Not that it's a guarantee that it would be used in such a manner, but it could be. That's so obvious that I can't believe anyone could disagree with it, and anyone who would is so dumb and naive that it wouldn't be worth the effort to explain it to them further. 

I guess I can see their perspective, though: no one in government ever lies about the real purpose of any government action beforehand, and government as an institution certainly has no record of physically restraining people within its arbitrary borders, or in prisons or concentration camps. That's all just nutty conspiracy stuff.

----------


## Ranger29860

lol that glithed in the camera there made perry look like satan

----------


## SilentBull

WOW! Rick Perry is Ron Paul now. It's official.

----------


## MarcNY

Foreign Policy question would have helped Ron Paul out greatly.

----------


## Esoteric

Keynsean?  Perry?  COME ON RON!

----------


## speciallyblend

perry wtf??

----------


## IndianaPolitico

Did Rick Perry just slam Keynes?!?!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

The More PERRY speaks... the more he is Dubya W Bush's TWIN.


Perry stealing RON's policies for decades  ANyone keeping a stop watch on each candidates time.

Nice PLUG by the NWO/CFR propaganda about Qaddafi/Libya

----------


## ctiger2

Perry said "Obama's Kenyan policy won't work" lol!

----------


## libertybrewcity

Perry talking about Keynesian theory...wow

----------


## anewvoice

did Perry just say Keynesian economics is done?

He's unwilling to back up his philosophical beliefs, jump in Ron!!!!

----------


## svobody

Hahahahahhaha rick perry lolol keynsian oh dear lord

----------


## Esoteric

My head is going to explode!

----------


## Shane Harris

perry just said keynesian??????  ahaha pleaseeee ask him a follow up

----------


## Chieppa1

Why are you guys tripping? Ron will now be asked about that comment everything time he's on FOX/MSNBC/CNN for the next 2 weeks. He'll be able to explain his position to the audience, in words and terms that we speak about here. Ron kills it when he gets time to clarify.

----------


## therealist

Ricky Perry is a thief....stealing Ron Paul's platforms

----------


## Romulus

What did i miss?

----------


## speciallyblend

he is not making sense to me.

----------


## Razmear

I think it was a color filter wheel, used to make some look pale and pale folks look tan. Perry was ghost white before they dialed him tan

----------


## Matthew5

Did Rick Perry just use the term "Keynesian policy"? wtf?

----------


## Esoteric

Perry pandering to Paul supporters HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahaHAHAHAHHAHA

----------


## Ronulus

> What did i miss?


Them ignoring Ron and Perry trying to say Keynesian economics was bad.

----------


## RKoho

> I hear you, but come on, guys.  Why is this bad?  Why?  I thought Ron did great (so far, it's not over).  Why are you all so pessimistic and so nit-picky?  Ron had a great answer on immigration, on the economy, on Rick Perry, I thought he did great.  He's just speaking hard truth, and we all know that hasn't been popular per se, but that's our message, like it or not.  Ron articulated it pretty well tonight.  We expect too much.


 It's bad because the average voter will never believe a Berlin wall situation would happen here. They hear Paul's answer and their response is 'wtf is this man talking about' and the media is going to make his answer into a soundbyte to convince people he's as crazy as ever. It is our message. But our message won't go anywhere without making it everyone elses message too!

----------


## Brett

Can one of these people answer the question asked?  I want to run one of these debates and force them to answer the question asked.

----------


## MJU1983

> Did Rick Perry just use the term "Keynesian policy"? wtf?


I bet he doesn't know what it MEANS.  But he did say it.

----------


## Endthefednow

why am I watching this?

----------


## Matt Collins

Glad To See Rep. Bachmann Joining The Team
“3 to 1 spending cuts promised but never delivered…”

Rep. Bachmann just quoted Ron Paul 2012’s ‘Conviction’ ad. See ad here: http://youtu.be/UUNIeOB0whI

----------


## cucucachu0000

He couldn't even pronounce the frigan word, it was foreign to him.

----------


## bluesc

WTF is this $#@!?! They are all hijacking Ron's issues.

----------


## LibertasPraesidium

http://www.wepolls.com/p/2126428/Who...Reagan-Library

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> What did i miss?


Rick Perry slamming his own economic policy. And apparently Republicans are no longer for nation building.

----------


## speciallyblend

> I bet he doesn't know what it MEANS.  But he did say it.


that is what i am thinking

----------


## jackers

Lol, if "we're" not Keynesists now, what are we Mr. Perry? Please expand on what economic school you follow!

----------


## wgadget

Bachmann doesn't know about all that GOLD in Libya?

----------


## speciallyblend

give us ron paul now ask him a ?

----------


## therealist

this is disgusting...all these bushbots now flip flopping

absolutely sickening

----------


## devil21

Check out all the low post newbies flooding into the forum to bash the fence answer.

----------


## bluesc

She is literally quoting Ron Paul.

----------


## sorianofan

Santorum looks like such a prick.

----------


## wgadget

> Lol, if "we're" not Keynesists now, what are we Mr. Perry? Please expand on what economic school you follow!


Don't be silly...We're Ostricans.

----------


## Harry96

Perry's handlers have definitely prepped him well to become a fake Ron Paul.

----------


## Romulus

Time to REBUTE!!!

----------


## ctiger2

This country is $#@!ed. Nothing will change until the collapse comes. And, it probably won't be for the better.

----------


## svobody

This is like some bizarro world

----------


## amjwh99

wtf Santorum

----------


## therealist

American good, everyone else = bad

----------


## mello

> Foreign Policy question would have helped Ron Paul out greatly.


More questions to Ron would have helped Ron out greatly. Honestly, I think Huntsmen got 3 times as much time to talk than Ron & he's only polling at 1%. WTF!!! I'm guessing that Perry got 5-6 times as much time to speak than Ron.

----------


## Billay

Lol @ the excuse "low post count people dont count" Some of you really can't except reality.

----------


## sorianofan

> Check out all the low post newbies flooding into the forum to bash the fence answer.


I bow down to your 8,000 posts!

----------


## Esoteric

jump in NOW ron.  NOW.  Santorum mentioned you!

----------


## kill the banks

> It's bad because the average voter will never believe a Berlin wall situation would happen here. They hear Paul's answer and their response is 'wtf is this man talking about' and the media is going to make his answer into a soundbyte to convince people he's as crazy as ever. It is our message. But our message won't go anywhere without making it everyone elses message too!


so far everything Ron has said in past was viewed that way , BUT , Ron explained and Ron won the day

----------


## freejack

> perry said "obama's kenyan policy won't work" lol!


lol

----------


## wgadget

> This country is $#@!ed. Nothing will change until the collapse comes. And, it probably won't be for the better.


Well, it's on its way.

----------


## sluggo

Not watching the debate.

Feels good.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> East Berlin, West Berlin.  When countries start building walls to ISOLATE themselves from other people, it STOPS people from being able to go where they want.  Think of the blow back creating a wall towards mexico would cause!
> 
> Ron Paul is not an isolationist, and he does not have an isolationist foreign policy.  People who want to build walls, and sentries against are neighbors are the real isolationist.


That is a very good point.  Those who advocate building fences around this country are the real isolationists.  Die Berliner Mauer (Berlin wall) is a great example.  Walls only serve to create hostility and division.  It might keep people out, but is that really the best solution?  Ron Paul made people think about that tonight.  I say a job well done.

----------


## Harry96

Conspiracy theory: the premise that the people in government are anything but selfless angels who only care about the well-being of a bunch of total strangers.

----------


## LineHogs

or like he doesnt have one

----------


## alsis8xmy

Fences work both ways...nuff said.   "MR GORBACHEV, TEAR DOWN THIS" .... fence

----------


## speciallyblend

oo god santorum, i hope ron paul exposes this nonsense now

----------


## IndianaPolitico

Come on Ron, HIT HARD!

----------


## parocks

> I hate to say it, but if that line picks up media, it could mean the end of any momentum.


But Ron Paul also talks about closing down all our military bases.  And he seems to take Iran's side.  These are the things that are unacceptable to most Republicans.
But people here just think we can make up the votes somewhere else.

Is Iran a threat? is a question that people have an opinion on, and most Republicans say yes.  Ron Paul says no.

Should we be worried about the Fed Gov going evil on us?  Most people don't have an opinion.

The strongest argument against the guy in front requires people to think that sinister goverment is something to worry about.
He's building the case.  He's starting to make the case "be afraid of Perry".  He isn't figuring out how to stop the Santorum juggernaut.

----------


## devil21

Another 1% Huntsman question?

eta:   ooooh yeah go ahead and advocate carbon taxes.

----------


## bluesc

> Check out all the low post newbies flooding into the forum to bash the fence answer.


If you don't like this site growing, then ask the admins to ban new supporters and new members joining. If new supporters joining here see it that way, how are on-the-fence supporters that aren't members here gonna feel about it?

My god.

----------


## sorianofan

They are treating that Utah guy like he's God, WTF is he?

----------


## svobody

So he mentions Ron Paul, but he doesn't get to rebutt

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Whooo.Rick Santorum is still a war monger.

----------


## DrN0

WTF? Why didn't RP get to rebutt Santorum and point out that Reagan pulled out of Lebanon!?!

----------


## Badger Paul

_"But our message won't go anywhere without making it everyone elses message too!"_

Have you listened to other candidates? They're basically reading off Ron Paul's songsheet.

----------


## jumpyg1258

That implies that they are going to give Ron a chance to speak, good luck with that.

----------


## Ronulus

> This country is $#@!ed. Nothing will change until the collapse comes. And, it probably won't be for the better.


Yep, starting to get discouraged with this $#@!ty debate and them ignoring Ron.

----------


## Brett

I don't recognize half these people polling under 2%.  They're all the same and shouldn't be on this stage.

----------


## therealist

lol Huntsman...good for him !!!!

----------


## Inkblots

Santorum: "It’s isolationism if you aren’t actively paying for nation building in at least three countries overseas! Also, exit strategies are for wussies! Also, we should be like Reagan and follow his example, except when he brought all our troops home from Lebanon and said nation building there was a bad idea, because that never happened!"

----------


## wgadget

So is this the Huntsman Show?

----------


## angelatc

> WOW! Rick Perry is Ron Paul now. It's official.


  More like he's Governor George W Bush.

----------


## Inflation

> Super courageous.  The "fence keeps us in" line will be the most remembered and talked-about moment of tonight's debate.


The fence line is a dog whistle.  It alerts those who don't trust the USGOV and who believe 'it can happen here.'

It puts Dr. Paul squarely on the side of those who don't trust the FEDGUV any further than they can throw it.  

Let the 'we trust the government' King's Men smirk and make their fun.  We will have our day.  It is coming sooner than later.

----------


## Shane Harris

did ron get asked about fp? my internet cut out?

----------


## DrN0

They're hoping Huntsman will steal votes from RP, AND appeal to broader public

----------


## Endthefednow

In order for not only the Republicans to win but the Nation also we need RON PAUL!!!

----------


## YumYum

> This country is $#@!ed. Nothing will change until the collapse comes. And, it probably won't be for the better.


I second that!!

----------


## LineHogs

Staying out of the worlds military affiars in less than dire cirumstances is not isolationism.  We could still be very active in trade.  Freedom is broad and expansive and our nation will use many solutions if allowed.  Our people ARE the nation.  They ARE the government.

----------


## MelissaCato

They all wish they was Ron Paul. They all should just drop out and let's get the ball rollin .. I kinda wish Trump was up there just to see what he's got going with his hairdoo lately. LMAO

----------


## DrN0

I think they cut his mic

----------


## devil21

> If you don't like this site growing, then ask the admins to ban new supporters and new members joining. If new supporters joining here see it that way, how are on-the-fence supporters that aren't members here gonna feel about it?
> 
> My god.


Big difference between growing and obvious trolls.  You'll learn about it if you spend more time here.

----------


## The Dude

God this debate is disgusting. Feeling more and more like an independent run/coalition with someone like Nader. Can't stand these fake conservative pricks.

----------


## angelatc

> They are treating that Utah guy like he's God, WTF is he?


It's MSDNC and Huntsman is a liberal.

----------


## Esoteric

is he doing a Bush impression?

----------


## RKoho

Ugh, we need Paul to tear Santorum a new one.

----------


## svobody

Guess it's official, the debate blackout is on. 3 questions? Was that it?

----------


## Razmear

Perry Tanking!

----------


## ifthenwouldi

Wow, do I hate the "debate format."  Thanks, JFK.

----------


## LineHogs

Anything else would be a hollow victory

----------


## Santangelost

Lol hes doing the george bush rofl

----------


## bluesc

> Big difference between growing and obvious trolls.  You'll learn about it if you spend more time here.


This thread is not full of trolls. It is full of people, including me, that think Ron saying that was a total disaster. I've been a supporter since '07.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Apparently evolution is bad for economics?

----------


## green73

98% of scientists used to think the earth was flat.

----------


## Harry96

To watch this, you'd think Huntsman is polling as a front-runner and Ron is at 2%.

----------


## Santangelost

Econonicks lololol

----------


## jumpyg1258

> Guess it's official, the debate blackout is on. 3 questions? Was that it?


Gotta love how the media will report that they are ignoring Ron Paul and then later on they still ignore Ron Paul.

----------


## Ranger29860

ozone levels down? mayby i don't understand it but istn that bad?

----------


## Matthew5

What's an "American economics"?

----------


## YumYum

Perry---"Stinky crotch-down by 37%"

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

Oh for gods sake will they please ask Ron questions.

----------


## Brett85

> Nonsense and just more of your backhanded crap on this forum.  He never said anything remotely related to open borders.  You're a troll and it's interesting to see who the trolls are popping up at the end of the debate with all negativity.  Your true colors are showing.


Troll=Anybody who ever criticizes Ron over anything.

----------


## kylejack

Bachmann has been called on 3 times since Ron Paul was last called on, I do believe.

----------


## wgadget

> This thread is not full of trolls. It is full of people, including me, that think Ron saying that was a total disaster. I've been a supporter since '07.


It was not a total disaster if it gets people talking about it and thinking about it.

----------


## Ranger29860

> 98% of scientists used to think the earth was flat.


Not true but thats a diffrent discussion :P

----------


## devil21

> This thread is not full of trolls. It is full of people, including me, that think Ron saying that was a total disaster. I've been a supporter since '07.


Shame that telling the truth is a total disaster to you.  Have you learned anything since 2007?




> Troll=Anybody who ever criticizes Ron over anything.


We already know about you.

----------


## smithtg

nbc loves to ignore someone with real ideas

----------


## Endthefednow

and Now The FED

----------


## therealist

Perry showing America what a C student is capable of

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Meh…I'm not entirely up for drilling in the Everglades.

----------


## MelissaCato

Why does it feel like I could explain things better than anything Perry says... I'm sorry, but he makes Bush sound good.

----------


## SilentBull

BREAKING: Perry to get plastic surgery before the next debate. Plans to confuse voters into thinking he is the real Ron Paul.

----------


## angelatc

I forgot Newt was there.

----------


## YumYum

Next is the bathing suit competition.

----------


## anewvoice

Newt gets the Ben Bernanke question, wtfh is that?

----------


## IndianaPolitico

Now they are giving Gingrich, GINGRICH the Fed question...

----------


## eff

Perry has gotten 3 questions since the break and paul has gotten zero.  Wow. Also they allowed santorum to attack him without a response.

----------


## MarcNY

> oh for gods sake will they please ask ron questions.


agreed

----------


## Harry96

Now here comes Gingrich as fake Ron.

----------


## Brett

Newt Gingrich: The man spearheading the "Audit the Fed" movement.

----------


## Ronulus

What is this bull$#@!. It's almost over and they have been ignoring paul, even when directly 'attacked'. This is so discouraging and angers me greatly. There are no meet up groups where I live but I'm about to go buy a billboard or something for Ron.

----------


## Jdagucci

msnbc can smd they can all $#@! themselves...pissin me the $#@! off

----------


## blakjak

> This thread is not full of trolls. It is full of people, including me, that think Ron saying that was a total disaster. I've been a supporter since '07.


ditto. he did more damage with that comment then anything else i've ever heard him say. it's a bummer.

----------


## bunklocoempire

Perry with the Fed question... 3, 2, 1



Bunkloco

----------


## green73

> Not true but thats a diffrent discussion :P


And they use to think the earth the center of the universe, and that continents don't move. The list goes on and on.

----------


## Santangelost

Newt Gingrich wants to audit the federal reserve! LAWL

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

They're ignoring Dr. Paul and asking all the other candidates to do their Ron Paul impression.

----------


## jumpyg1258

From the 2008 election season in case you guys have forgotten...

----------


## Napolitanic Wars

> Lol @ the excuse "low post count people dont count"


I am a low-post guy, but the post I have been seeing from you people trying to slam Paul at every corner sickening.

----------


## bluesc

> It was not a total disaster if it gets people talking about it and thinking about it.


It was a disaster.

If you put Alex Jones on national television, most people will think he is crazy, even if he isn't on most things.

----------


## DrN0

All the necons are picking up different parts of RP's message in order to keep him from standing out so much.

----------


## MJU1983

What was Newt saying about Alaska being 1.5 times size of Texas and looking at Rick?  Did Perry think he had the biggest state?

----------


## YumYum

> Troll=Anybody who ever criticizes Ron over anything.


I second that!!

----------


## smithtg

> All the necons are picking up different parts of RP's message in order to keep him from standing out so much.


definitely a conspiracy

----------


## Ranger29860

> And they use to think the earth the center of the universe, and that continents don't move. The list goes on and on.


ill give you those :P

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

http://www.wepolls.com/p/2126428/Who...Reagan-Library

go vote

----------


## 1stAmendguy

Gingrich pandering to RP supporters on the FED. All talk. Do you really think this globalist would follow up on firing Bernacke?

----------


## Esoteric

THIS IS your territory, RON!

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> What was Newt saying about Alaska being 1.5 times size of Texas and looking at Rick?  Did Perry think he had the biggest state?


Perry is compensating for something else.

----------


## Santangelost

I do believe Romney, Bachmann, and Perry all pre-planned to use some of Ron Paul's ideas so that he wouldn't shine. . . .

----------


## zacharyrow

No more ron, I guess....

----------


## Razmear

wtf?

----------


## Romulus

3 cheers for death row.... uhg

----------


## Dary

> Come ON RON! Fences to keep US IN? My politically apathetic roomate was like WTF?


Ask your politically apathetic roommate if Ron has ever made a prediction that hasn't come true.

----------


## Paulite

if i were ron ill walk off the stage right now!

----------


## RKoho

I forgot how infuriating debates can be. I thought we were past this BS. I think we've had 4-5 questions.

----------


## Harry96

Applause for executing people.

----------


## MJU1983

I hear lots of people regurgitating Ron Paul talking points, too bad they don't mean what they say...like Ron Paul does.

----------


## angelatc

OMG.  The death penalty gets huge applause.  What on earth is wrong with humanity?

----------


## 1stAmendguy

Has Ron even gotten one question this round?

----------


## wgadget

The Chosen One needs lessons in rhetoric.

----------


## green73

Did they just applaud Perry for murdering people? Sick audience.

----------


## MelissaCato

Are they airing the advert again on MSNBC ?

----------


## svobody

Worst debate I've ever watched. The blackout is blatant and disgusting

----------


## therealist

this crowd is cheering for the death penalty??? WOW

----------


## anewvoice

Ouch, someone is calling him out for the likely execution of an innocent.  Wonder if they'll dig it deeper..

How many questions, 3 total for Ron Paul?

----------


## mac_hine

"Bernanke's over inflated the amount of currency he's created" ~Mitt Perry

*WTF*

----------


## smithtg

i started watching this thing like 25 min ago and RP has yet to say a word

----------


## devil21

I guess they're going to to ignore Ron for the last 35 minutes of the debate.

This whole thing has made my motivation that much stronger.  My yard signs go out TONITE!

----------


## ProBlue33

This is a bad debate for Ron, not his fault, too bad really. 
He looks ticked off and frustrated too. 
This Perry's kick off debate, the focus was on him.

----------


## wgadget

Listen to all that good evangelical applause.

----------


## mikef

Wow this debate is complete crap!

----------


## reduen

This is the worse debate yet! I only watched it because I wanted to see the new ad and I have not even seen that yet....

----------


## SilentBull

It's over

----------


## eff

Ron should refuse to answer another question if they ask him one.

----------


## therealist

this is disgusting....cheering death

what kind of country are we becoming.

----------


## Brett85

> Shame that telling the truth is a total disaster to you.  Have you learned anything since 2007?
> 
> 
> 
> We already know about you.


BS.  I've even donated to Ron recently.




> Thank you!
> Thank you for your generous donation!
> 
> 
> Amount: $50.00 
> Transaction ID: 303291905 
> Transaction date/time: 2011-08-20 10:29:36

----------


## wgadget

> i started watching this thing like 25 min ago and RP has yet to say a word


Same here.

BTW, am I detecting a Perry lisp?

----------


## Tiger35

Co-opting the message. The debate is so rigged. Isolated and thunder being stolen. Ron get in their for the last second half and roll again.

----------


## Inkblots

> OMG.  The death penalty gets huge applause.  What on earth is wrong with humanity?


Original sin?

----------


## pauliticalfan

total black out

----------


## Esoteric

that's it.. debate's over.. Ron marginalized, yet again.

----------


## The Dude

My heart is hurting for Ron right now...he must feel absolutely horrible.

----------


## Ronulus

They got him to say the fence thing and then closed him out. They just wanted something to pin on him as being 'crazy' and it worked. I don't think it is but $#@!. I hate these damn debates they are worthless.

----------


## VictorB

It aired immediately before the debate started.

----------


## anewvoice

Cain gets the tax question?  I don't think Ron Paul has 1 question this entire segment.

9-9-9 again?

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> Applause for executing people.


 Sickening.  Awful.  Capital punishment is a good thing, I think, but it's not something to clap and holler about.  My God, there are so many sheeple in that audience...

----------


## blakjak

The ad was at the very beginning before the debate started.

----------


## reduen

Even Herman Cain has gotten to speak more than Dr. Paul.....

----------


## Matt Collins

Rick Santorum Doesn’t Understand Reagan
a blog by Jack Hunter


http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/09/0...rstand-reagan/

----------


## Razmear

Ron looks pissed

----------


## Esoteric

why do i even watch.. i need a prozac

----------


## svobody

Campaign is going to have to ramp up the offensive against the media

----------


## smithtg

cain gets a question from the non brian williams guy

I swear these MSM hacks are told who the questions are supposed to be asked to

----------


## Brett

Finally a question...

----------


## Inkblots

We are in so much trouble, as a nation, as a people.

----------


## sevin

> My heart is hurting for Ron right now...he must feel absolutely horrible.


Actually, I he's probably used to it. I think he's happy just knowing he's doing his best to get the truth out.

----------


## ifthenwouldi

> this is disgusting....cheering death
> 
> what kind of country are we becoming.


That was painful.

----------


## Michael Landon

Finally.

- ML

----------


## GunnyFreedom

Finally, geeze

----------


## smithtg

keep pounding the media I agree

----------


## Esoteric

here we go..........  forget the question.. go off on monetary policy!

----------


## Badger Paul

We need to turn this back on the media just like we did at Ames. Third place in the polls and hardly gets any questions. Go after the MSNBC and Politico bastards.

----------


## devil21

Wtf kind of question is that?  Lunches at schools?????

----------


## svobody

What kind of $#@!ing question is this? Are you goddamn kidding me

----------


## Inkblots

Lyndon Johnson: one of the most evil men ever to hold the US presidency.

----------


## 1stAmendguy

Sorry I take that last comment back. Didn't mean it. I'm just pretty frustrated with what's going on right now.

----------


## green73

LOL, LBJ. Mr Compassion.

----------


## SilentBull

I want to cry right now. This world is so $#@!ed up. How can people be this evil? Do they not see what they are doing to the country.

----------


## Matt Collins

*In Case You Missed It:
	Federal Reserve Secrets*



* If It Weren't For Ron Paul, Here's What We Wouldn't Know:* 
Taxpayers were put on the hook for *16 TRILLION DOLLARS* in* financial assistance to* *Wall Street insiders**, foreign, central banks* and other institutions around the globe in order to prop up their failures. (Government Accountability Office Report)

Of that $16 trillion, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke was lending "*banks and other companies as much as $1.2 trillion of public money*, about the same amount U.S. homeowners currently owe on 6.5 million delinquent and foreclosed mortgages." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

From August 2007 to April 2010, the *Federal Reserve handed out more than 21,000 loans* to their "Liquidity Lifeline" buddies. Who got the emergency liquidity, and when? (Bloomberg Interactive Chart)

"It wasn’t just American finance. *Almost half of the Fed’s top 30 borrowers*, measured by peak balances, *were European firms*." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

"They [European firms] included Edinburgh-based Royal Bank of Scotland Plc, which took *$84.5 billion*, the most of any non-U.S. lender, and Zurich-based UBS AG, *which got $77.2 billion*. Germany’s Hypo Real Estate Holding AG borrowed *$28.7 billion*, *an average of $21 million for each of its 1,366 employees*." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

"*Even banks that survived the crisis without government capital injections tapped the Fed through programs* that promised confidentiality. London-based Barclays Plc borrowed *$64.9 billion* and Frankfurt-based Deutsche Bank got $*66 billion*." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

"Fed officials argued for more than two years that releasing the identities of borrowers and the terms of their loans would stigmatize banks, damaging stock prices or leading to depositor runs. *A group of the biggest commercial banks last year asked the U.S. Supreme Court to keep at least some Fed borrowings secret*." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

"By Nov. 21 [2008], when *Citigroup began talks with the government to get a $20 billion capital injection on top of the $25 billion received a month earlier*, *its Fed borrowings had doubled* to about *$50 billion*." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

"Over the next two months [late 2008 to early 2009]* the amount almost doubled again. Citigroup was tapping six Fed programs at once. Its total borrowings amounted to* *more than twice the federal Department of Education’s 2011 budget*." (Bradley Keoun and Phil Kuntz, Bloomberg. Aug. 22, 2011)

*Citigroup, along with others such as Morgan Stanley and Bank of America Corp., account for a majority of the Fed's emergency loan holdings that were secretly placed on the backs of** current and future generations of* *Americans**.*

 *RON PAUL KEEPS FIGHTING* 

*Congressman Ron Paul has been a tireless advocate for greater transparency at the Federal Reserve. He’s been introducing legislation to Audit the Fed for over 20 years. Now all of his hard work has finally started to pay off, but there’s still a long way to go.  

	The other presidential candidates may be using his rhetoric, but none of them can match his consistent record of fighting for transparency and government accountability.*

----------


## The New Fury

Nine pizzas, nine toppings for nine dollars!

----------


## runamuck

This is disgusting!

----------


## eleganz

School lunch question for Ron Paul?  WTF????  they're making it way too obvious.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Wait... Wait...

Ron Paul still starving your children in Texas?

----------


## smithtg

we who believe in liberty do not lack compassion

great quote

----------


## Harry96

Yeah, that War on Poverty worked out great. The reason we don't starve is because of farmers and supermarkets and restaurants. Government makes food more expensive by things like farm subsidies and especially inflation.

----------


## therealist

who keeps coughing

----------


## zacharyrow

Nice answer Ron Paul!

----------


## dfalken

Hit it out of the ballpark!  Stuff it you piss of $#@! mainstream liberal jackass reporter!

----------


## Brett

Gingrich: The fed
Perry: Taxes
Paul: School lunches.

He did with it what he could.  Pathetic fairness.

----------


## tfurrh

Lizard lick.

----------


## MarcNY

He sounded great but some clown is coughing over him.

----------


## DrN0

What a load of $#@!

----------


## MelissaCato

well Ron Paul got the last word !!!  Ron Paul !!

----------


## green73

RP gets the last word at least.

----------


## Harry96

> Nine pizzas, nine toppings for nine dollars!


Ha!

----------


## RKoho

Awesome answer. We desperately needed that. I like an angry Ron.

----------


## LiveFree79

I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing.  People don't want to hear crap like that.  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.

----------


## kylejack

> Lyndon Johnson: one of the most evil men ever to hold the US presidency.


Yeah, I would turn it around on how many Vietnamese children he murdered.

----------


## Jtorsella

I feel sick to my stomach.

----------


## bamafanmco

Start the "ron paul ignored" trend now!

----------


## Harry96

The "analysis" is going to be even more painful.

----------


## anaconda

Wow! Ron gets the final word and essentially the only "closing statement."

----------


## alsis8xmy

Too bad that DNA evidence has shown that even with a fair hearing, appeals and the supreme court, we still have gotten it wrong too many times and executed innocent people.  How is that justice???  Executing one innocent person is one too many.

----------


## AJ Antimony

> Ron looks pissed


Maybe if he freaking spoke up he'd get some time...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

Home freaking run by Ron Paul on the last question!  Way to capt it off!  Awesome debate, Ron!

----------


## YumYum

WOW!! What a great statement Ron ended the debate with!! Ron wins hands down!!!!

----------


## AlexMerced

at least we got the last word with a good answer

----------


## pinkmandy

I also think the fence comment was a good move. There's a lot of distrust out there atm. I've seen many changes in every day folks and how they view what's going on in DC these days. They have been noticing the corruption, too. 

I bet this will be a hot topic on MSM as they will likely try to use it to tarnish him, make him look crazy, etc. but now Paul gets to discuss the increasing police state every time a pundit asks him about his "kooky" statement. He just opened a can of worms that will hopefully create new discussions re: rights of the people, police state, etc. If they ignore it then the curious people will have to look it up for themselves and if they address it then Paul gets to own it (and he will). Jmho but I don't think they want people googling the police state and finding out about, say, the 70+ "fusion centers" located across the country or other interesting tidbits that MSM doesn't bother talking about much. 

Paul is polling well nationally. He has more support, much more compared to the last run. It's amazing really. People are noticing the lack of attention, the bias, etc. and are wondering why.

----------


## TheBlackPeterSchiff

lol if I was Ron I wouldnt even participate in this bull$#@!. People dont watch TV anymore anyways.

----------


## knightk



----------


## Buchananite

Great response to the welfare question at the end

----------


## green73

> Lizard lick.


who?

----------


## MarcNY

> who keeps coughing


agreed.

----------


## PastaRocket848

Last answer was a good one.  Good thing he got to go last.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

Well, after a long period of abstention, RP answers the very last question of the debate, and garners applause from the audience.  Well done.

Sad to say this, but somehow, I doubt Paul will be a part of the next debate.  Please convince me I'm wrong, forum...

----------


## therealist

skip the analysis....gonna need a few rounds to get over this one guys

----------


## Shane Harris

anyone other than spin master maddow and i would actually watch post debate.

----------


## Esoteric

*I really want to punch a wall.. COUGHING over Ron Paul?!  not one foreign policy question?!  They know who's watching.. and more importantly.. WHO WILL BE GIVING THE POST-DEBATE ANALYSIS.  Liberals.  They didn't ask him 1 question where he aligns with them.*

----------


## bb_dg

I'm sad that Ron Paul was skipped on questions about foreign policy and taxes, but at least there is plenty of footage of that already. I am VERY happy of his answer for the last question. That completely contradicts the liberal's view on Ron Paul and the needy.

EDIT: Though, someone kept coughing during his last answer, that was annoying.

----------


## Kevin_Kennedy

Did he get a real question at all tonight?

----------


## Jdagucci

ok ron saved it there but the 2 guys askin the questions can go smd

----------


## invisible

Wow, did anyone else catch the expression on Ron's face as he walked offstage and greeted Carol?

----------


## wgadget

> I want to cry right now. This world is so $#@!ed up. How can people be this evil? Do they not see what they are doing to the country.


Come now...All of us conspiracy theorists know that Rick Perry is the Chosen One, hand-picked and groomed by the Bilderberg Group.

----------


## kylejack

> who?


Paul

----------


## LatinsforPaul

Ron Paul gave his BEST answer at the end which happened to be the last question of the debate.

I van't believe Paul didn't get ONE foreign policy question. I guess MSNBC didn't want anyone to know he is the only one who is antiwar.

----------


## raider4paul

Ron got so screwed.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

He was able to end the debate with a strong point against the attacks he usually faces, implying libertarians lack compassion. Take that.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> Campaign is going to have to ramp up the offensive against the media


Hear hear

----------


## Chieppa1

Can we get "$#@! you Brian Williams" trending?

----------


## wgadget

> Wow, did anyone else catch the expression on Ron's face as he walked offstage and greeted Carol?


No, what was it?

----------


## RKoho

> I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing.  People don't want to hear crap like that.  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.


  I don't think his AC and FEMA answer was bad. You bring up other valid points though.

----------


## Brett85

> I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing.  People don't want to hear crap like that.  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.


Don't you dare say that!  You'll be called a troll!

----------


## AlexMerced

I don't think we gained much, but I don't think we lost much, Ron did some good evasion on two attempts to make him sound like he's without compassion (the minimum wage questions, and the Food program question) he took both of those and turned them around.

Although, he sounded awfully tired, not himself, and that borders fence answer was just awkward...

----------


## wgadget

Okay, people.  BOYCOTT TIME.

----------


## MarcNY

> lol if I was Ron I wouldnt even participate in this bull$#@!. People dont watch TV anymore anyways.


Ron Paul is losing the 50+ age group.

----------


## Tom in NYC

MSNBC treats him worse than Fox.  This debate is further proof of that. Every question was phrased to make him look unsympathetic or downright crazy.

----------


## MelissaCato

Can I Twitter now please ?

----------


## sunghoko

Rick Perry trying to pronounce keynesian economics was the highlight for me

----------


## gjdavis60

Ron really got hosed for time.  I hope someone calculates question count and talk time comparisons.

----------


## icon124

> I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing.  People don't want to hear crap like that.  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.


so basically we should sugar coat everything and feed you B.S. so you'll be happy like the dead zombies in the rest of the country....not why I am voting for him...I'm voting for him because he tells the truth...no rambling just truth...you must be used to used to the sound bite answers

----------


## J. Evins

"Rick Perry is doing his best Reagan impression. (Shouldn't have picked Alzheimer's Reagan though!)"  ... LOL

----------


## kill the banks

trust your leader he has changed the forum completely and he will continue to awaken the sheep

----------


## mello

I don't think he was given 1 follow-up question throughout the entire f**king debate.

----------


## green73

> Paul


What an awful thing to say.

----------


## LineHogs

You tell em ron.  It's awesome that he got the last question and used it to tout liberty.  That is what seperates him and it is also time for a leader who exhibits it.  america is a free nation and it will flow this way or that until it reaches a point where the  people need something else.  I believe now is the time.

----------


## roughridersten

Ross = Ron Paul

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Liberal Socialists @ MSNBC & POLITICO  set the agenda and control who wins, loses, and ignored.

Core Marxists Corrupt Lizards questioning Republicans at the Reagan Library, How $#@!in Bizarre is that?

----------


## phesoge

Well, I hope Ron Paul forces the Reagan worshipping morons to look at History and look at the massive deficits that occurred under his (Reagan's) watch. Paul was so right when he said "we have to be honest with ourselves".

----------


## Restore-America-NOW

> 


This.

Guys, I literally have a headache and I think my enthusiasm for Ron Paul has been crushed for at least a few weeks. I guess I'm going to go drink something and entertain myself on the boobtube before bed. Good night my fellow patriots and pray to god we have a miracle

----------


## Jingles

My god this debate was terrible (Ron Paul was fine, but it was the directing of his questions and such to others and lack of questions).

----------


## Ireland4Liberty

> I don't think we gained much, but I don't think we lost much, Ron did some good evasion on two attempts to make him sound like he's without compassion (the minimum wage questions, and the Food program question) he took both of those and turned them around.
> 
> Although, he sounded awfully tired, not himself, and that borders fence answer was just awkward...


Summed up perfectly.

----------


## Eric21ND

Walls/fences are isolationist.  Reagan worked to tear down a wall or two.

----------


## DrN0

> can we get "$#@! you brian williams" trending?


working on it...

----------


## libertybrewcity

that was a $#@!ty debate. Ron did what he could and answered effectively. I applaud him. there are two more debates this month so don't worry about it.

stay optimistic!! donate on the 17th!

----------


## YumYum

> I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing. * People don't want to hear crap like that.*  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.


Yeah, and people didn't like hearing some of the things that Jesus had to say either.

----------


## MJU1983

> Can we get "$#@! you Brian Williams" trending?


Really.

----------


## Badger Paul

_"I bet this will be a hot topic on MSM as they will likely try to use it to tarnish him, make him look crazy, etc. but now Paul gets to discuss the increasing police state every time a pundit asks him about his "kooky" statement."
_
And you know what, if given time to speak on this, I think he could wax brilliant about it on news shows. Good point.

Also, just remember we've got two more of these this month alone and plenty more coming the rest of the fall up until the caucuses. What happened tonight is just one blip along the way. Everyone is going to be focusing on Perry afterwards.

----------


## foofighter20x

> LOL, LBJ. Mr Compassion.


Of course LBJ was full of compassion. Just look at all those bombs he had dropped off over Vietnam.

----------


## Badger Paul

_"People don't want to hear crap like that. "_

Really? Did you ask every single one of them? How do you know?

----------


## MarcNY

> Liberal Socialists @ MSNBC & POLITICO  set the agenda and control who wins, loses, and ignored.
> 
> Core Marxists Corrupt Lizards questioning Republicans at the Reagan Library, How $#@!in Bizarre is that?


He needs to jump in and take the time, forget about being polite and nice waiting for your turn game.

----------


## AlexMerced

although, the fence with machine guns comment was pretty funny

----------


## ProBlue33

Except for the last question, which there was a hearty applause, it was not a good night, I think most of us feel it, if we are honest and realistic. This is still a 4 person race.

----------


## FlatIron

lol, Rick Perry got applauded for killing hundreds of people

----------


## DrN0

Romney's beating RP in the poll...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing.  People don't want to hear crap like that.  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.


I'm sorry, but it appears you are turning into one of the sheep you so despise for their ignorance.  You can't stupidify Ron's message, so stop acting like he shoul start talking like Romney or Bachmann.  You're really turning this into a negative nancy thing that detracts from intelligent debate.  You will NEVER be happy with what Ron says because you are so full of your own preconceived ideas on what Ron should say.  You will never be happy because you're a nit-picker, and I'm sorry, but the negativity needs to stop.  I can't even believe people are trying to discouarage people from being cheerful about Ron getting the message of liberty out!  Everything he said was a token of truth, and you are simp[ly spoiling the party by saying "nag this and nag that, Ron is an old man who needs to shut up and/or be like Romney."  It's not going to work.  Stop acting like everything Ron says is nothing but a ramble.  It's intelligence, and that's what we need to impart.  We can't encourage this ignorance in the public by responding to it.  We respond to intelligent debate and good truthy points.  That's what wins debates, not freaking pandering.  You are a shame on the entire Ron Paul community.

----------


## specsaregood

> _"People don't want to hear crap like that. "_
> Really? Did you ask every single one of them? How do you know?


I still say a lot of wealthy people, might have a different view on Dr. Paul's statement than the middle and lower class.

----------


## Umbro2914

what was Pauls last comment?

----------


## LibertasPraesidium

what poll link """



> Romney's beating RP in the poll...

----------


## MarcNY

> that was a $#@!ty debate. Ron did what he could and answered effectively. I applaud him. there are two more debates this month so don't worry about it.
> 
> stay optimistic!! donate on the 17th!


Agreed.

----------


## sofia

damn!  I had been hoping to escape to a free and properous Mexico when TSHTF....But now Ron is telling me I'll be trapped in America. 


sorry guys....but our man is getting too old. That was a ridiculous statement and he is looking tired.

I dont love rand as much as I do Ron......but perhaps Pops should have stepped asided and let his sharper son take on this monumental challenge.

----------


## hellsingfan

This debate was a waste of time.. And Ron Paul's comments on the 'fence keeping us in' was totally uncalled for- whether he's right or wrong- if he wants to get rid of the 'nut' label- he should leave out the 'speculative' and almost 'conspiracy' remarks out of his answers. I'm being totally honest here. That answer was NOT good.

----------


## Inkblots

> Guys, I literally have a headache and I think my enthusiasm for Ron Paul has been crushed for at least a few weeks. I guess I'm going to go drink something and entertain myself on the boobtube before bed. Good night my fellow patriots and pray to god we have a miracle


Chin up.  There's a long way to go until the primaries start.  Ron Paul is polling better nationally, and particularly in Iowa and NH, than I would ever have thought he could, if you had asked me back in November 2008.  His support is growing, his campaign is well-funded, he has hired real professionals to advise and cut ads for him.  His being ignored at a debate isn't going to stop any of that.

----------


## devil21

> I'm sorry, but it appears you are turning into one of the sheep you so despise for their ignorance.  You can't stupidify Ron's message, so stop acting like he shoul start talking like Romney or Bachmann.  You're really turning this into a negative nancy thing that detracts from intelligent debate.  You will NEVER be happy with what Ron says because you are so full of your own preconceived ideas on what Ron should say.  You will never be happy because you're a nit-picker, and I'm sorry, but the negativity needs to stop.  I can't even believe people are trying to discouarage people from being cheerful about Ron getting the message of liberty out!  Everything he said was a token of truth, and you are simp[ly spoiling the party by saying "nag this and nag that, Ron is an old man who needs to shut up and/or be like Romney."  It's not going to work.  Stop acting like everything Ron says is nothing but a ramble.  It's intelligence, and that's what we need to impart.  We can't encourage this ignorance in the public by responding to it.  We respond to intelligent debate and good truthy points.  That's what wins debates, not freaking pandering.  You are a shame on the entire Ron Paul community.


+rep

We can't become what we're fighting to change.

----------


## NaturalMystic

We just need the field to narrow down

----------


## LiveFree79

> so basically we should sugar coat everything and feed you B.S. so you'll be happy like the dead zombies in the rest of the country....not why I am voting for him...I'm voting for him because he tells the truth...no rambling just truth...you must be used to used to the sound bite answers


Oh please........cutting off the AC to the troops the end the wars?  Yeah reall intelligent and informative.  His infowarsesque border fence answer about a border fencing keeping Americans and their capital in GOT ZERO APPLAUSE and the audience was almost silent.  He has failed miserably in putting forth his TRUE arguments.  Instead he tries to pander to his fringe supporters that already understand what he stands for.  That is why he WONT WIN!  You can call me a troll or this and that all you want but it's FACT!  He needs to EXPLAIN his positions more clearly and answer the whys and the hows......because as you say the average America voter is so dumbed down.  You DO NOT talk about cutting off the AC for US troops.  As much as I get his point statements like that do not appeal to the mainstream voters.  As much as the wars need to end statements like that are off putting for the average American voter who vehemently supports their troops.  It's just unnecessary comments like that that shadow his more important ideas and arguments.

----------


## tfurrh

> What an awful thing to say.


 I said that because I noticed Ron Paul licked his licked his lips after his last response. It was quick and looked 'lizardy.' No offense, just saying.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> I don't think we gained much, but I don't think we lost much, Ron did some good evasion on two attempts to make him sound like he's without compassion (the minimum wage questions, and the Food program question) he took both of those and turned them around.
> 
> Although, he sounded awfully tired, not himself, and that borders fence answer was just awkward...


I think we have to keep in mind the MSNBC host.  I'm not sure I know _any_ Fox lovers who would even watch the _MSNBC_ debate.

Perhaps the right message got out _for the viewers who were watching._

_I do know_ that _truth_ got some air time, and that's never a bad thing!


Bunkloco

----------


## FlatIron

> I'm sorry, but it appears you are turning into one of the sheep you so despise for their ignorance.  You can't stupidify Ron's message, so stop acting like he shoul start talking like Romney or Bachmann.  You're really turning this into a negative nancy thing that detracts from intelligent debate.  You will NEVER be happy with what Ron says because you are so full of your own preconceived ideas on what Ron should say.  You will never be happy because you're a nit-picker, and I'm sorry, but the negativity needs to stop.  I can't even believe people are trying to discouarage people from being cheerful about Ron getting the message of liberty out!  Everything he said was a token of truth, and you are simp[ly spoiling the party by saying "nag this and nag that, Ron is an old man who needs to shut up and/or be like Romney."  It's not going to work.  Stop acting like everything Ron says is nothing but a ramble.  It's intelligence, and that's what we need to impart.  We can't encourage this ignorance in the public by responding to it.  We respond to intelligent debate and good truthy points.  That's what wins debates, not freaking pandering.  You are a shame on the entire Ron Paul community.


Your Idea of "whatever Ron says, EVERYBODY will agree to it" scares me.

edit: We know what Ron is trying to say, but everybody else does not understand

----------


## bluesc

So... Where do we go from here?

I mean, this has discouraged me beyond belief. I never expected them to push Perry that hard, and I never expected them to completely ignore Ron for the last 30 minutes. How $#@!ing obvious can they be?

Ron's answer on the fence was absolutely horrible. I know, I'm a troll for saying it, but let's face it, even if it has some credibility, it was a stupid thing to say.

Now for the media $#@! storm. I bet Perry didn't lose a single vote over that debate.

----------


## foofighter20x

> lol, Rick Perry got applauded for killing hundreds of people


You know, in Perry's defense, the Texas constitution places some pretty strict limits on the executive pardon and reprieve power.

----------


## KingNothing

That was atrocious.

----------


## cdc482

I agree. Ron Paul bombed. I love Ron Paul, and I want him to win, but this debate makes me embarrassed to be known as his supporter. Let's stop lying to ourselves.

I wish he'd actually rehearse his answers to questions! It's hard to think under pressure and give and organized coherent answer. If he had just thought about it the night before he could have done better.

Think of the last question he got. Wouldn't it have been better if he said something like:
"How'd he go about feeding them? He didn't give away any of his fortune to help. He gave them other people's money. That's not very compassionate at all. True compassion is donating my money to hungry people, and not taking from someone else to give to them."

----------


## YumYum

> damn!  I had been hoping to escape to a free and properous Mexico when TSHTF....But now Ron is telling me I'll be trapped in America. 
> 
> 
> sorry guys....but our man is getting too old. That was a ridiculous statement and he is looking tired.
> 
> I dont love rand as much as I do Ron......but perhaps Pops should have stepped asided and let his sharper son take on this monumental challenge.


I think his fence comment was brilliant. You more than anybody on this forum knows about Gaza Strip fencing in the Palestinians. America is going to be a big Gaza Strip. Welcome to Hotel California America!

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

> He needs to jump in and take the time, forget about being polite and nice waiting for your turn game.


I wonder if Ron Paul knows that he represents more than just the liberty minded among us, but also represents the hope of those who have awakened to a full understanding of our reality; going any further in this statement may brand me an Alex Jones conspiracy nut.

Anyway, that said, it really is time for Ron Paul to start swinging that gigantic mind of his around like a bat.

----------


## KingNothing

> So... Where do we go from here?
> 
> I mean, this has discouraged me beyond belief. I never expected them to push Perry that hard, and I never expected them to completely ignore Ron for the last 30 minutes. How $#@!ing obvious can they be?
> 
> Ron's answer on the fence was absolutely horrible. I know, I'm a troll for saying it, but let's face it, even if it has some credibility, it was a stupid thing to say.
> 
> Now for the media $#@! storm. I bet Perry didn't lose a single vote over that debate.



I completely agree with this.

----------


## DrN0

> what poll link """


hxxp://www.wepolls.com/p/2126428/Who-won-the-9/7/11-GOP-Presidential-Debate-at-the-Reagan-Library

----------


## Chieppa1

At least MSNBC isn't talking about Paul, good or bad.

----------


## ifthenwouldi

Ron's a bit like a shooter in basketball - he needs to shoot his way out of a funk.  The best thing the media can do is deny him the ball.

----------


## driller80545

I'm sorry, but I thought Dr. Paul sucked tonight. Back to 7%.

----------


## Buchananite

> Lizard lick.


Shut up Mr. Icke

----------


## Uriah

Someone made a comment about the expression on Ron's face as he walked off stage and greeted Carol. What was the expression?

----------


## MJU1983

> So... Where do we go from here?
> 
> I mean, this has discouraged me beyond belief. I never expected them to push Perry that hard, and I never expected them to completely ignore Ron for the last 30 minutes. How $#@!ing obvious can they be?
> 
> Ron's answer on the fence was absolutely horrible. I know, I'm a troll for saying it, but let's face it, even if it has some credibility, it was a stupid thing to say.
> 
> Now for the media $#@! storm. I bet Perry didn't lose a single vote over that debate.


You can keep being a negative nancy or not.

Donate
Volunteer
Pound the Pavement
Sign Wave
Write a letter to your editor
Start a Blog
Promote the Money Bombs - Constitution Day Sept 17th is next
Buy these DVD's - hand them out: http://ronpaulfilm.com/
Spread the message of liberty, prosperity, and peace to anyone who will listen.
Make a YouTube account, make videos, like - favorite - share others videos.
Participate in the 60 second Ron Paul Video Contest (see my sig).

What you SHOULDN'T do is get discouraged in any way.

----------


## Shane Harris

we will do as good as we can, but every time i watch the news or watch a debate where everyone is spewing $#@! from their mouth and people applaud it, it is a total fail. we wont win, but we should try and set up rand for 2016 hopefully. i love ron but everyone here has to be able to feel it. im almost wishing i had some of my donation money back. the media single handedly throws our money down the drain :/

----------


## Inkblots

Well, I agree that it wasn't a great debate for Ron, both in terms of the questions he received and the answers he gave.  But again, as I said above, was everyone honestly expecting the MSDNC debate to be Ron Paul's breakout moment?  There's still a lot of campaign left, and, no matter how you slice it, Ron Paul is in a good position at this point.

----------


## LiveFree79

> Your Idea of "whatever Ron says, EVERYBODY will agree to it" scares me.
> 
> edit: We know what Ron is trying to say, but everybody else does not understand


Not only that people like PaulConventionWV will never undersatnd why someone like Paul will never make it to the White House in order to lead this country.  Sorry but you have to be cunning, manipulative, etc. to win in politics.  Everyone else does it why shouldn't Ron Paul?  It wouldn't detract from his message.  People want someone like Paul in the White House but they expect him to play by the rules and be the good guy when everyone else is $#@!ting on him and NOT playing by the rules themselves.  You gotta do what you gotta do to get elected.  Ron needs to pull up the stops and start playing politics in order to WIN!  THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS IS IF HE ACTUALLY WINS!  ALL THE primaries, debates, etc. don't mean crap if he doesn't win.  This country is on the brink of disaster and tyranny and Paul needs to man the hell up and get elected..............once he is elected he can get back to business.

----------


## Tom in NYC

We won the intellectual debate, hands down.  I heard the words "Fed, QE2 and Keynesian," among many other ideas that were blatantly lifted from Dr. Paul's platform.  Keep your collective head up folks.  It's a long way from over.

----------


## SilentBull

I thought the ad was gonna air twice tonight. I only saw it once right before the debate started.

----------


## RonPaul101.com

> I completely agree with this.


Given the fact that it was a Republican debate on MSNBC and will be followed by another debate on Monday, this would be the right debate to bomb on if Ron was going to bomb on a debate.

That said, he needs a debate coach and he needs to calm down, take one of Bachmann's pills or something (okay, just a half of one). Ron is too polite to the forum of a debate; he rushes his answers and then asks for permission to continue.... JUST GO and go at your own pace and do not stop until you've finished your answer.

----------


## messana

Perry tanked and that's good enough for now under the circumstances.

----------


## Umbro2914

bright side - not everyone watches the debate  infact, if you look on nonpolitical sites, almost no one mentions it...

----------


## mikef

About the fence comment: I think RP could've phrased it as something along the lines of "building a fence is isolationist." It sounds less "crazy" and it's a dig at the others who call him the "isolationist" while they advocate war and building fences around our borders. Saying that a fence could "keep us in" might be the truth but unfortunately it's perfect fodder for the media to spin the "RP is kooky" meme.

Overall, not really a good performance tonight but at least his last answer was pretty good.

----------


## GreenBulldog

One thing I like when they treat DRP (Dr. Ron Paul) unfairly is the blowback that's going come. 

There are lot of people piiiiiiiiiiiiissed!

The second definition in the dictionary for blowback is going to be: "The occurring of the opposite effect of the intended when marginalizing a man who's time has come."

----------


## FlatIron

I agree that Ron Paul should of interpreted Santorum , right after Rick Santorum insulted him, and educate Rick about what really happen on Reagan's foreign policy

----------


## tfurrh

> Shut up Mr. Icke


 did I say something that means something that I dont know? Ron Paul licked his lips, I just wondered if anyone else noticed....guess they didnt. Sooooooo sorrrry.

----------


## Razmear

MSNBC is killing Perry, total slam fest, so that can't be bad. No mention of Ron yet.

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtdFtSAmLw

The Campaign needs to focus on CONSISTENCY and not let these people get away with this smoke and mirror $#@!.  Perry talking about Keyn's economics, newt with fed, perry anti fed... it is so FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@$%@!%@#$!%@#!$%@#!@$  !#~

----------


## DrN0

> Someone made a comment about the expression on Ron's face as he walked off stage and greeted Carol. What was the expression?


It was like "Sorry I sucked, I'm glad that's over, whew!"

No offense to RP, I love him, but that's what it looked like.

----------


## FlatIron

> MSNBC is killing Perry, total slam fest, so that can't be bad. No mention of Ron yet.


 They attacked him, but he was getting the most   applause from the crowd

----------


## Razmear

> did I say something that means something that I dont know? Ron Paul licked his lips, I just wondered if anyone else noticed....guess they didnt. Sooooooo sorrrry.


Yeah I saw that, gave a last impression as an old codger. Thankfully the vast majority of the public isn't watching this BS and hopefully we'll get a few talking points out of the debate.

----------


## Buchananite

> did I say something that means something that I dont know? Ron Paul licked his lips, I just wondered if anyone else noticed....guess they didnt. Sooooooo sorrrry.


Who notices something like that?

----------


## svobody

Whatever guys, isn't there another debate in less than a week anyway? Just gotta hope for fair questions, I think the questions threw him off his game tonight. I expected them to be bad, but they were even more ridiculous than anticipated.

----------


## Matt Collins

*James Madison Agreed with Paul on Welfare
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/09/0...ul-on-welfare/*

----------


## wgadget

> They attacked him, but he was getting the most   applause from the crowd


Yeah, so who exactly was IN THIS CROWD?

----------


## Feelgood

Its official, its a Perry / Romney race!!! 

How long before it is locked up with an announcement of a Perry / Romney ticket to seal the deal?

----------


## cdc482

I hope Ron Paul learned his lesson. We all want him to win, and we back him with millions of dollars and tons of support converting people and spreading the word.

The least he could do is practice his answers to likely questions!!!

----------


## mac_hine

Ron Paul getting love on Twitter.

Step away from the cliff people.  It's all good.

----------


## KurtBoyer25L

I don't see what was so bad about tonight's debate. Ron didn't make any gaffe that anyone's talking about. They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already.

----------


## The New Fury

The fact that Politico co-hosted really makes me question the purpose of those "no one is listening to Ron Paul" articles.

----------


## RonPaul101.com

> We won the intellectual debate, hands down.  I heard the words "Fed, QE2 and Keynesian," among many other ideas that were blatantly lifted from Dr. Paul's platform.  Keep your collective head up folks.  It's a long way from over.


Perry mentioning "KENyian" (pronounced like the country where Obama's father was from) instead of the economic term is not encouraging; it only means that the mainstream will take a few Ron Paul talking points and catch=phrase them out for a nod or two. Perry couldn't even detail what Keynesian economics means.

----------


## Uriah

> It was like "Sorry I sucked, I'm glad that's over, whew!"
> 
> No offense to RP, I love him, but that's what it looked like.


Thanks. Hmm... not so good.

----------


## Brett

I think I agree with Perry and Romney.  I agree with Perry that Romney was a crappy governor, and with Romney that Perry was a crappy governor.  Why do all the MSNBC articles frame it to pick one or the other?

----------


## gjdavis60

Frankly, I think the worst that will come from this debate is that Ron's part in it will not be discussed.  In my opinion, he got the least number of questions and had the least time to talk.  The media will do what they have always done with him and that is ignore him.  The answer about the fence is not going to be used to attack Paul because nobody thinks he is worth the ink.  Just my two cents.

----------


## cdc482

Anyone notice that Perry couldn't name any scientists. The moderator exposed him as a fake.

----------


## wgadget

> Perry mentioning "KENyian" (pronounced like the country where Obama's father was from) instead of the economic term is not encouraging; it only means that the mainstream will take a few Ron Paul talking points and catch=phrase them out for a nod or two. Perry couldn't even detail what Keynesian economics means.


Perry pronouncing it wrong makes him look like the moron that he is.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

http://online.worldmag.com/2011/09/0...eagan-library/

another poll?

----------


## GreenBulldog

I wish Newt didn't mention the comment about the panel pitting people against each other. It was fun to see all those hypocrites attack each other about their bad track record. 

It only makes DRP look good and they won't attack him because, well, there's nothing to attack him on. 

And if they dare try to attack his principles or policies, he'll rip them apart like he did so many others.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> MSNBC is killing Perry, total slam fest, so that can't be bad. No mention of Ron yet.


Thanks for taking one for the team and the update.

I'm going to have to steer clear of anything "NBC" for a while... can't really afford a new TV if I happen to kick in the one we got...


Bunkloco

----------


## Badger Paul

_"We won the intellectual debate, hands down. I heard the words "Fed, QE2 and Keynesian," among many other ideas that were blatantly lifted from Dr. Paul's platform. Keep your collective head up folks. It's a long way from over. "
_
Amen to that. I wish more people around here would understand what's really going on. For somebody so "crazy", the other candidates sure do lift a lot from his platform.

The more we can discredit this debate for being a staged establishment play fight. in comment forums across the internet the better we'll be.  That's all it was.

----------


## FlatIron

> Yeah, so who exactly was IN THIS CROWD?


Doesn't matter who is in it, the problem is that the moderate Republican's, whom dont know who to vote for, will think of Rick Perry as a good candidate since the crowd    does seem to support him

----------


## DrN0

> I don't see what was so bad about tonight's debate. Ron didn't make any gaffe that anyone's talking about. They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already.


I agree 100%

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> _"We won the intellectual debate, hands down. I heard the words "Fed, QE2 and Keynesian," among many other ideas that were blatantly lifted from Dr. Paul's platform. Keep your collective head up folks. It's a long way from over. "
> _
> Amen to that. I wish more people around here would understand what's really going on. For somebody so "crazy", the other candidates sure do lift a lot from his platform.
> 
> The more we can discredit this debate for being a staged establishment play fight. in comment forums across the internet the better we'll be.  That's all it was.


Right... but it is smoke and mirrors.  you know none of it will come true.  they use these movements to hijack the position then ignore it once elected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtdFtSAmLw

----------


## parocks

> Well, after a long period of abstention, RP answers the very last question of the debate, and garners applause from the audience.  Well done.
> 
> Sad to say this, but somehow, I doubt Paul will be a part of the next debate.  Please convince me I'm wrong, forum...


Why would he not be?

----------


## Shane Harris

> Thanks for taking one for the team and the update.
> 
> I'm going to have to steer clear of anything "NBC" for a while... can't really afford a new TV if I happen to kick in the one we got...
> 
> 
> Bunkloco


this. as soon as i heard maddows voice the window was closed.

----------


## Badger Paul

". They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already. "

Yes but we can use it to our advantage if we attack the debate itself as being a joke.

----------


## JohnGalt23g

Ugh...

----------


## SlowSki

not sure if this has been posted. Just saw it on facebook.

h ttp://ed.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/13/6851987-poll-who-won-tonights-gop-debate

----------


## LiveFree79

> I don't see what was so bad about tonight's debate. Ron didn't make any gaffe that anyone's talking about. They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already.


So that is the standard we hold Paul to now?  Hoping he doesn't make a "gaffe"?  How pathetic does that sound?  As intelligent as Paul is and as spot on as he is with his ideas and beliefs he should be DOMINATING these fools!  But he gets caught up in needless rants and rambles..  Like an old man talking to himself while pacing back and forth in his living room.  I think what is so eye opening is everyone that blindly supports him no matter how good or bad he sounds in debates.  He needs to be held accountable for his performance.  Nobody froze anyone out tonight.  Paul got enough to time to put forth his ideas and arguments in a concise and coherent manner....again he didn't.  Cutting off AC to the troops thus forcing them to come home?  Funny?  Yeah ok.......He should have talked about blow back, the debt, the MI complex.  Instead he stoops the the level of cutting off AC for trooops?  I expect more.  We spend $20 billion on AC for the troops?  OK what about all the money we send to Israel, Pakistan, Somalia, etc.  He mentioned nothing about our trade deficit and China.

----------


## falconplayer11

Except for Ron Paul, everyone on that stage was a disgusting human being who treats human life as if it is something to be played with...a means to some political end.

I'm never going to watch one of these pathetic "debates" again. I bet Ron Paul hates being up there, too...absolutely hates it.

----------


## sailingaway

> It's bad because the average voter will never believe a Berlin wall situation would happen here. They hear Paul's answer and their response is 'wtf is this man talking about' and the media is going to make his answer into a soundbyte to convince people he's as crazy as ever. It is our message. But our message won't go anywhere without making it everyone elses message too!


It's too philosophical for people to get in a soundbite, it comes off as a conspiracy thing.  He doesn't want border controls.  Already US citizens need passports to travel, there are reporting requirements on taking out money, your laptop can be searched at the border stuff that would have been considered unthinkable once upon a time.  I think he is reprising his 'what would we think if they did it there' to 'what if it is turned on us' in what he sees as a more palatable reason for just not liking a wall at the border.  Fact is though, while that piece doesn't appeal to him, he did vote for it when it was combined with other stuff he wanted on enforcement, etc.

----------


## AJ187

Gawd, you guys are being overcritical.  I just watched this whole debate with 3 non supporters and all of them agree they liked Ron the best.  They laughed at all the petty squabbling that went on.  You guys got to remember that we see things through a certain perception that the average voter does not. We WANT to scream at the screen when the neo cons put on their little dog and pony show and ignore the real troubling truth of any given issue for the quick fix.  Luckily, tonight Ron was able to inject some real sensibility in the debate.

----------


## LBennett76

I was talking to some friends of mine on Facebook while watching the debate. They are all former Obama supporters who have turned to Ron Paul because they feel Obama lied to them. One of them even said that every time she sees Ron Paul she smiles.  75% of my former Obama-loving friends are now for Ron Paul. That's why MSNBC has to minimize him. He's stealing Obama votes.

----------


## georgiaboy

> Not only that people like PaulConventionWV will never undersatnd why someone like Paul will never make it to the White House in order to lead this country.  Sorry but you have to be cunning, manipulative, etc. to win in politics.  Everyone else does it why shouldn't Ron Paul?  It wouldn't detract from his message.  People want someone like Paul in the White House but they expect him to play by the rules and be the good guy when everyone else is $#@!ting on him and NOT playing by the rules themselves.  You gotta do what you gotta do to get elected.  Ron needs to pull up the stops and start playing politics in order to WIN!  THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS IS IF HE ACTUALLY WINS!  ALL THE primaries, debates, etc. don't mean crap if he doesn't win.  This country is on the brink of disaster and tyranny and Paul needs to man the hell up and get elected..............once he is elected he can get back to business.


Great points.  Remind me, has Ron Paul ever won any elections?

----------


## gjdavis60

> ". They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already. "
> 
> Yes but we can use it to our advantage if we attack the debate itself as being a joke.


This.  But we need the stats on questions per candidate and talk time per candidate.  I'm pretty sure Ron will be way below the others.

----------


## freeforall

> Gawd, you guys are being overcritical.  I just watched this whole debate with 3 non supporters and all of them agree they liked Ron the best.  They laughed at all the petty squabbling that went on.  You guys got to remember that we see things through a certain perception that the average voter does not. We WANT to scream at the screen when the neo cons put on their little dog and pony show and ignore the real troubling truth of any given issue for the quick fix.  Luckily, tonight Ron was able to inject some real sensibility in the debate.


agreed

----------


## Cdn_for_liberty

> I've watched this debate from the very beginning.  Ron Paul is almost embarrassing to listen to.  I hate to say it as I love the guy and agree with a lot of what he says.  But he will not win with his incoherent rants and silly little glibs that he tries to be funny with.  His AC comment about the troops and FEMA burned him.  His rant about a border fence keeping Americans in got zero applause and was embarrassing.  People don't want to hear crap like that.  He could have answered the drug border war question brillianty by following up with his legalization of drugs and taxing marijuana production but he just rambled trying to fit in several arguments.  Using words like ALL, END, ABOLISH, i.e. absolutes will never get him anywhere.  He needs to play politics a little bit.  He made a comment about $2.00 gas and brought up a 10 cent silver piece worth $3.50..........ok that went right over everyone's head obviously....INSTEAD HE SHOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FED INFLATING THE MONEY SUPPLY WHICH IS WHAT HIS POINT WAS!!!!!!!  Sorry but Ron Paul is done.  He he spoke like Herman Cain who I hate he'd have the nomination already.


I think you hit the nail on the head with most of your post.  His answers were a little too over-the-top for the average voter. Some people here just refuse to accept that Ron need to speak at the level of the people, who he needs to influence in order to win.  The libertarians and the Ron Paul fans here are most likely going to be voting for him so he doesn't need to give answers that would solely generate praises here.  

I just can't over the fence answer he made.  It just sounded too "Alex-Jones-ey" and it was just way over the head of the audience members.  Same with the that "silver dime for a gallon of gas" answer.  

It's almost as if Ron is trying to be a little bit creative in modifying his usual answers to sound a bit funny and interesting but I think it fell flat and it could be detrimental to his image after tonight.  I think he should stick with the usual answers he gave in the previous 3 debates but present the answers smoothly, to the point and short.

----------


## rprprs

> Ugh...


Yep, sorry to say, but that pretty much sums it up.

----------


## NorfolkPCSolutions

This debate was a farce.  It was hosted by the establishment left and participated in by the establishment right.  Only one candidate didn't fit that paradigm - Ron Paul.  I'm fine with that.  Had he swam comfortably in that $#@! and been treated well by the other nimrods on stage, as well as by the moderators, it would have spoken ill of Ron Paul.    

Ron Paul ranks third or fourth in the polls, and is a valid candidate.  He, and his ideas, are part of the national conversation.  That's going to have to be enough for me.

----------


## mello

Is Ron going to have a post-debate interview with a network?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

http://twitter.com/#!/TheDailyShow/s...61904467619840

@TheDailyShowThe Daily Show 

#ReaganDebate Prediction: Everyone treats @RonPaul the way they should be treating @MicheleBachmann.




4 hours ago via HootSuite _Favorite__Undo RetweetReply_

----------


## Emmitt2222

> "We won the intellectual debate, hands down. I heard the words "Fed, QE2 and Keynesian," among many other ideas that were blatantly lifted from Dr. Paul's platform. Keep your collective head up folks. It's a long way from over. "
> 
> Amen to that. I wish more people around here would understand what's really going on. For somebody so "crazy", the other candidates sure do lift a lot from his platform.


Ron Paul was just OK this debate (although good enough to get one convert who I was watching with, so not too bad).  But this was the biggest deal - *Ron Paul's ideas are starting to become mainstream*! Yes, they are being coopted. Yes, they are even being twisted some.  Yet we all know Ron Paul is simply the messenger for the idea of true liberty and this proves that the idea is beginning to spread, however small.  I'm not sure what effect this debate will have or if Ron will win any states at all, but he is officially making a lasting impact on the American landscape.  I am so proud to be a Ron Paul supporter today!

----------


## undergroundrr

I expect a lot of press about how much the other candidates sound like Ron Paul.  It's interesting that he still managed to distinguish himself with the comments about the fence and the TSA.  The only moment that struck me as unwise was the bit about defunding A/C for the Afghanistan troops, but I'm going by descriptions since my stream hiccupped at that point.

----------


## parocks

> I don't see what was so bad about tonight's debate. Ron didn't make any gaffe that anyone's talking about. They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already.


Agree pretty much.

----------


## Maximilian American

Its funny how when Ron Paul gets ignored for 30 minutes and asked the fewest questions asked in a setup manner kind of way that some "supporters" get nervous or discouraged about his candidacy. What about the approach that we are in this together and that Ron is there representing liberty and that instead of criticizing him about his performance, would it not be better focused for us to engage ourselves even more to target these unfair and bias positions that the media has upon his campaign with actual organizing against them like we did in 2007/08? Ron Paul cannot win this alone nor could he change our nation alone to restore our natural liberties, it takes all of us to make a difference everyday and everyway possible to our capabilities, not to waste energy by crying over who the media favors and whether some sheep absorb and imitate the tv talking heads, NO, but direct our energy in positive action by telling our friends and neighbors why we support liberty and why Ron Paul is the most trusted man to uphold it. The sheep will catch on eventually. Focus on those who will listen to you and get them to think and not imitate, to be a self-leader and not a follower...because when self-researched and confronted with the truth...the person is sets himself free. 

Ron Paul can be our Led Zeppelin...that is if each and EVERYONE of us are willing to personally go all out in his and our support for liberty by spreading the word and being their own representative of liberty and endorsing Ron Paul as the executive upholder. 

Excuse me while I plan for my neighborhood door to door knocking and educating tomorrow evening, because I don't depend on anyone but me to uphold my liberty...but it would be nice to have Ron Paul for executive support.

----------


## LiveFree79

> This debate was a farce.  It was hosted by the establishment left and participated in by the establishment right.  Only one candidate didn't fit that paradigm - Ron Paul.  I'm fine with that.  Had he swam comfortably in that $#@! and been treated well by the other nimrods on stage, as well as by the moderators, it would have spoken ill of Ron Paul.    
> 
> Ron Paul ranks third or fourth in the polls, and is a valid candidate.  He, and his ideas, are part of the national conversation.  That's going to have to be enough for me.


THAT IS THE POINT!  So what if these debats are a farce.Ron Paul still has to get through them the best he can....Paul needs to ADAPT!!!!!  He needs to WIN!  He needs to play politics!  My god ........you want him to cry like a baby, take his toys and go home?  Man up and deal with it......we dont live in a perfect world where everyone is going to like Ron Paul and he will get plenty of time to answer his questions.  Paul should know he's going to be slighted and maligned............he's anti establishment........He needs the confidence, the class, and the sophistication to deal with that type of pressure.

----------


## alsis8xmy

Ron Paul ad on now...Nice!!!

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> Ron Paul was just OK this debate (although good enough to get one convert who I was watching with, so not too bad).  But this was the biggest deal - *Ron Paul's ideas are starting to become mainstream*! Yes, they are being coopted. Yes, they are even being twisted some.  Yet we all know Ron Paul is simply the messenger for the idea of true liberty and this proves that the idea is beginning to spread, however small.  I'm not sure what effect this debate will have or if Ron will win any states at all, but he is officially making a lasting impact on the American landscape.  I am so proud to be a Ron Paul supporter today!


The problem is if our man doesnt win.. no one will go through with it.  They are diluting his impact by trying to take his positions.  The average voter will not know ron paul has been speaking like this for 30 years unless the campaign does something about it .... this ad is a start .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtdFtSAmLw

----------


## The Dude

Ron Paul's campaign commercial just showed during the break on MSNBC post debate analysis....wtf?

----------


## LisaNY

Truth ad airing right now in NYC! (MSDNC)  btw did maddow say SANTORUM was coming up as a guest?!?

----------


## pauliticalfan

Ad airing again, they're gonna talk about RP on MSNBC now.

----------


## Buchananite

Saw this comment:

"I almost never watch these things, but I did watch this one. Paul started off well and gave some good answers on how regulation hurts poor people. Unfortunately, he just went off the reservation after that (from a classical liberal point of view). His Constitution-worship made him seem intellectually weak and unprincipled, while his answer on immigration was just a disaster. There are lots of libertarian arguments for immigration; his answer just came off as petty ("that's not what we are as a country,") and delusional ("the fence will keep us in!"). Still, best of a bad bunch, I guess."

----------


## Razmear

> Ron Paul ad on now...Nice!!!


Yes, Rons ad aired in SC this time. Good ad buy!

eb

----------


## Agorism

I just saw Paul's commercial on MSNBC at 9:20 PM Central time.

----------


## FreeMind&Market

This is all about proliferation the stereotypical left vs right debate, which makes it easier for the media to get sheeple stirred-up.

----------


## turbobrain9

Did anyone think that MSNBC was going to give Ron a fair shot? That was the most disgusting treatment of Ron I have ever seen in a debate, particularly after tying for first in IOWA....what a joke. get angry and get out there and convert people to Ron NOW

----------


## RonPaul101.com

> Yes, Rons ad aired in SC this time. Good ad buy!
> 
> eb


So nice to see a national ad.

----------


## KingNothing

> Ron Paul getting love on Twitter.
> 
> Step away from the cliff people.  It's all good.


That just isn't true.  Twitter is killing him tonight.

----------


## PeteinLA

Agree that was not the best Ron Paul debate but I found it interesting that Perry seemed to have problems forming coherent thoughts towards the end. It was really disjointed. 

The fence thing should have turned into an anti drug war blast that would have made me happy. I'm not so concerned about escaping the US because I'm a Liberty guy. The people worried about leaving in a hurry should be all these war mongering necons and anti-freedom goons. Now bring on the next debate and tell Ron to bring his pissed off persona. I like that.

----------


## angelatc

> Perry mentioning "KENyian" (pronounced like the country where Obama's father was from) instead of the economic term is not encouraging; it only means that the mainstream will take a few Ron Paul talking points and catch=phrase them out for a nod or two. Perry couldn't even detail what Keynesian economics means.


In Perry's defense, things are pronounced differently in Texas.  Buchanan = BUCK-uh-non

----------


## cdc482

Ron Paul's ideas becoming mainstream isn't a plus!!! WAKE UP!

Ron Paul's ideas on foreign policy became mainstream in 2000 under Bush, but it didn't matter because Bush was a puppet. We need an honest person who actually believes in Ron Paul's ideas! None of the "mainstream" contenders we saw up there sincerely beleive in Ron Paul's ideas! Don't expect any of them to follow through if elected. We need to get the honest guy elected, and our job would be a lot easier if his ideas weren't being mimiced and ripped-off by everyone else!

----------


## LisaNY

> That just isn't true.  Twitter is killing him tonight.


have you checked the twitter feed for perry?  They aren't exactly throwing roses at him either.

----------


## georgiaboy

> Ron Paul was just OK this debate (although good enough to get one convert who I was watching with, so not too bad).  But this was the biggest deal - *Ron Paul's ideas are starting to become mainstream*! Yes, they are being coopted. Yes, they are even being twisted some.  Yet we all know Ron Paul is simply the messenger for the idea of true liberty and this proves that the idea is beginning to spread, however small.  I'm not sure what effect this debate will have or if Ron will win any states at all, but he is officially making a lasting impact on the American landscape.  I am so proud to be a Ron Paul supporter today!


I agree, this was my biggest takeaway.

If only the voters can now see that the principles will only be implemented by those who have records of supporting such.  The rhetoric can be identical, and Paul-centric.

The record to back up the rhetoric, only Ron Paul has, by miles and miles.

----------


## parocks

> I was talking to some friends of mine on Facebook while watching the debate. They are all former Obama supporters who have turned to Ron Paul because they feel Obama lied to them. One of them even said that every time she sees Ron Paul she smiles.  75% of my former Obama-loving friends are now for Ron Paul. That's why MSNBC has to minimize him. He's stealing Obama votes.


And this is in Ohio?  Good stuff.

----------


## Dary

> Perry mentioning "KENyian" (pronounced like the country where Obama's father was from) instead of the economic term is not encouraging; it only means that the mainstream will take a few Ron Paul talking points and catch=phrase them out for a nod or two. Perry couldn't even detail what Keynesian economics means.


Perry knows exactly what Kenyian economics is. If you asked him he'd probably tell you that it is the exact opposite of Australian economics.

----------


## cdc482

Also PLEASE stop blaming the media. They ask him loaded questions, but Ron should be intelligent and prepared enough to answer them. 1 for 2 won't cut it.

----------


## sailingaway

> Very bad answer by Ron on the immigration issue.  Advocating for open borders in a GOP primary isn't going to work.


It was a set up. Ron has the  most consistent and protective of US Citizen policy on immigration, while wanting people here who are needed to come legally.  In a fair comparison of policies, he'd be rated A+, but they know the fence is something he just doesn't like, although he voted for it to get enforcement etc.  So they ask about that one point to make him look 'soft on illegal immigration' to the crowd.  Whereas most of those calling for the fence are really much worse on their overall position.  Ron's comment was just a bad way to say why he didn't like it, and it will be used against him, unfortunately.  It is a problem with trying to throw in a conclusion without the backstory, and there is no time for a backstory.

----------


## LisaNY

lol santorum and matthews going at it now

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> Ron Paul's ideas becoming mainstream isn't a plus!!! WAKE UP!
> 
> Ron Paul's ideas on foreign policy became mainstream in 2000 under Bush, but it didn't matter because Bush was a puppet. We need an honest person who actually believes in Ron Paul's ideas! None of the "mainstream" contenders we saw up there sincerely beleive in Ron Paul's ideas! Don't expect any of them to follow through if elected. We need to get the honest guy elected, and our job would be a lot easier if his ideas weren't being mimiced and ripped-off by everyone else!


Exactly my point i am trying to make as well.  Campaign needs to go offensive on consistency.

----------


## KingNothing

> have you checked the twitter feed for perry?  They aren't exactly throwing roses at him either.


The conservatives are loving Perry and hating Paul.

The liberals are loving Huntsman, hating Perry and mocking Paul.


He's got to do better.  He needs to jump in. He needs to force himself to the front.  He needs to discuss the economics of war coherently.

----------


## ds21089

> Exactly my point i am trying to make as well.  Campaign needs to go offensive on consistency.


Agreed. They need to quote them on their flip-flopping and show how long Ron Paul has been saying these things.

----------


## SlowSki

LOL. Just saw this on my facebook newsfeed:

Ok, despite Ron paul not being asked a decent question all night, he still was rock solid. His questions went something like this: "Congressman Paul.....if puppies walked into your office, hungry and cold...why would you turn them away?"

----------


## KingNothing

> Also PLEASE stop blaming the media. They ask him loaded questions, but Ron should be intelligent and prepared enough to answer them. 1 for 2 won't cut it.


He's been so good in interviews lately, i have  no idea why he failed so badly tonight.

----------


## LBennett76

> And this is in Ohio?  Good stuff.


Actually the friends I was talking to are in Ohio, WV, Virginia, Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania, and California. He's everywhere! The response I'm getting when I post videos and quotes of Ron Paul has been phenomenal. Everybody is digging him. I have not seen a post for any other Republican candidate anywhere amongst my Facebook friends. There's still some hardcore lefties who would die before they would ever vote R/L. But at the same time they aren't posting anything pro-Obama.

----------


## musicmax

I think the left embraces evolution solely because they cannot fathom a reason why God would permit Chris Matthews to exist.  CM just tried to rip Rick Santorum for not answering questions _that weren't asked_.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Except for the last question, which there was a hearty applause, it was not a good night, I think most of us feel it, if we are honest and realistic. This is still a 4 person race.


Seriously, what the $#@!, people?  I thought Ron did great.  Why are we all being a bunch of negative nancies?

----------


## matt0611

> LOL. Just saw this on my facebook newsfeed:
> 
> Ok, despite Ron paul not being asked a decent question all night, he still was rock solid. His questions went something like this: "Congressman Paul.....if puppies walked into your office, hungry and cold...why would you turn them away?"


Yeah, its pretty BS, I really do like the format where everyone answers the same questions for most of the debate, it gets boring but its more "fair" to me. It lets you actually differentiate the candidates instead of the media writing the narrative and telling you what to think instead.

----------


## Tarzan

What is happening to the post positions on this thread???

*Is someone deleting posts??? And why???*

----------


## PastaRocket848

I'm watching twitter right now and all the buzz seems to be about the ad.  And very positive.

----------


## JohnGalt23g

> Seriously, what the $#@!, people?  I thought Ron did great.  Why are we all being a bunch of negative nancies?


The answer on the fence is the type of thing that can kill someone's chances.  The campaign had best do some serious damage control.

----------


## sailingaway

> NOTE: lower level has plenty of open seats.


pity they wouldn't let people have them.  I tried to get seats, they said they weren't available to the public.

----------


## FreedomProsperityPeace

> Gawd, you guys are being overcritical.


+1. I stepped away from the computer for a while, came back, and everyone is acting like the world is ending. I think they set their expectations way too high or something. Dr. Paul got some good shots in on Perry, and he was taken down a few notches tonight by everybody. That's the takeaway from this debate.

----------


## Simple

Talking about changing the debate, the whole field sounds like they all want to steal Ron Paul's thunder. Win or lose, the debate is still moving in Ron Paul's direction.




> Rick Perry trying to pronounce keynesian economics was the highlight for me


 I think he just learned a new word, lol. It would have been nice if he could at least mention Cern or solar variation if he wants to talk climate change. He comes off like another George Bush.



> although, the fence with machine guns comment was pretty funny


I agree. I liked how he kept bringing his hands back to the machine gun position when talking about the fences keeping us in. 

Ron Paul made a good closing and addressed his most common criticism. Forget the crushed hopes and binge drinking, just let Ron Paul be Ron Paul.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

I'm satisfied with Dr. Paul's performance.  It wasn't perfect, but neither were the other candidates.  Dr. Paul has integrity.  That's something NONE of the others have...

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> I just threw up in my mouth a little.  Romney saying bring the troops home?


That means he has polled the electorate and it's a popular stance now.

----------


## mikef

> Ron Paul was just OK this debate (although good enough to get one convert who I was watching with, so not too bad).  But this was the biggest deal - *Ron Paul's ideas are starting to become mainstream*! Yes, they are being coopted. Yes, they are even being twisted some.  Yet we all know Ron Paul is simply the messenger for the idea of true liberty and this proves that the idea is beginning to spread, however small.  I'm not sure what effect this debate will have or if Ron will win any states at all, but he is officially making a lasting impact on the American landscape.  I am so proud to be a Ron Paul supporter today!


I definitely noticed that. Almost everyone onstage was co-opting at least some part of Ron's platform. It is good that these ideas are finally coming into the mainstream, but they are just using Ron's rhetoric to try to peel away his support. We really have to work extra hard to expose these guys (and girl) for the frauds that they are.

----------


## Tina

> damn!  I had been hoping to escape to a free and properous Mexico when TSHTF....But now Ron is telling me I'll be trapped in America. 
> 
> 
> sorry guys....but our man is getting too old. That was a ridiculous statement and he is looking tired.
> 
> I dont love rand as much as I do Ron......but perhaps Pops should have stepped asided and let his sharper son take on this monumental challenge.


It's not a ridiculous statement. I was impressed that Ron understood that truth, but surprised he said it.

----------


## Dr.3D

> In Perry's defense, things are pronounced differently in Texas.  Buchanan = BUCK-uh-non


Yeah, just like "Nuclear" = "Nucular"

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Ronald Reagan doesn't support fences on the border. He did tell Gorbachev  to tear down a border fence.


It's my recollection he also allowed amnesty.

----------


## Rede

Ronald "Tear Down This Wall" Reagan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK30k2WTxY0

The message: Ron Paul = Ronald Reagan

----------


## BuddyRey

> LOL. Just saw this on my facebook newsfeed:
> 
> Ok, despite Ron paul not being asked a decent question all night, he still was rock solid. His questions went something like this: "Congressman Paul.....if puppies walked into your office, hungry and cold...why would you turn them away?"


ROFL!  Awesome!

----------


## cdc482

This needs to be repeated. READ




> Ron Paul's ideas becoming mainstream isn't a plus!!! WAKE UP!
> 
> Ron Paul's ideas on foreign policy became mainstream in 2000 under Bush, but it didn't matter because Bush was a puppet. We need an honest person who actually believes in Ron Paul's ideas! None of the "mainstream" contenders we saw up there sincerely beleive in Ron Paul's ideas! Don't expect any of them to follow through if elected. We need to get the honest guy elected, and our job would be a lot easier if his ideas weren't being mimiced and ripped-off by everyone else!


Also, unrelated, but maybe Nancy Raegan would be courteous enough to endorse RP?

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Did Rick Perry just slam Keynes?!?!


The fact they are co-opting our language means that we are winning.

----------


## cdc482

Read ^ the post above you

----------


## FreeTraveler

> The fact they are co-opting our language means that we are winning.


Part of me really wants to agree with this. OTOH, I can't help but wonder if the classical liberals felt that way the first time they heard 'liberal' used to denote big-government handouts. Eventually they lost the liberal word to big-government supporters.

----------


## Steve-in-NY

Dont freak out ppl. I have a feeling that there is going to be a nice big positive bump. There will be a lot of discussion. Dont be surprised if the next debate all the candidates are worried about border fences keeping people in. 

Keep on campaigning!

----------


## ApathyCuredRP

> The fact they are co-opting our language means that we are winning.


I do not trust any of them other than our man.  Just cause they talk the talk does not mean they walk the walk.

----------


## The Midnight Ride

I watched this debate with 3 non-supporters. They have not been following this election yet. In fact, they only thought of Ron as "that crazy guy" going into the debate. 

What were their thoughts? They said he was the winner of the debate, all three. Why? Well he spoke in plain terms to them, he was coherent and raised questions that were unlike the rest of the field: they weren't directed at Obama negatively. They said he was the only one who seemed *truly genuine in his responses and CARED about the future.* They were disappointed they couldn't hear a question on jobs or foreign policy. 

They asked me when they can see him again. 

Folks, you need to step out of this world and look at the big picture. Sure to us it may seem that it was a subpar performance, but we know Ron, we have seen him on his A-Game, most voters have not! It is the primary voter, it is their perception that matters, not ours. There are many debates coming up, this one will just become a blur into the rest of them. Relax. We need to make sure we to make sure we organize for the coming debates and make sure we have supporters in the audience. Do not become discouraged and remain active!

----------


## parocks

> So that is the standard we hold Paul to now?  Hoping he doesn't make a "gaffe"?  How pathetic does that sound?  As intelligent as Paul is and as spot on as he is with his ideas and beliefs he should be DOMINATING these fools!  But he gets caught up in needless rants and rambles..  Like an old man talking to himself while pacing back and forth in his living room.  I think what is so eye opening is everyone that blindly supports him no matter how good or bad he sounds in debates.  He needs to be held accountable for his performance.  Nobody froze anyone out tonight.  Paul got enough to time to put forth his ideas and arguments in a concise and coherent manner....again he didn't.  Cutting off AC to the troops thus forcing them to come home?  Funny?  Yeah ok.......He should have talked about blow back, the debt, the MI complex.  Instead he stoops the the level of cutting off AC for trooops?  I expect more.  We spend $20 billion on AC for the troops?  OK what about all the money we send to Israel, Pakistan, Somalia, etc.  He mentioned nothing about our trade deficit and China.


He probably does need to have a great debate performance at some time.  But a fantastic debate performance is not necessary in September.  He really isn't a great debater.  But his ideas are right.  It just isn't something to worry very much about.  I'd like to see him memorize a few statements.  Short, full sentences. Where you can hear every single word.  Sentences with a beginning, middle and end.  He typically doesn't wail in debates.  Oh well.  

You're acting like you've never seen Ron Paul in a debate before.  This is how it goes.  It wasn't a particularly bad debate.  He didn't mock people who wanted to keep heroin illegal.  No attacking everyone else for not taking the side of our enemy.  

Perry didn't impress.  That's a good takeaway.

----------


## dusman

"Speaking of #gopdebate, which I'm not watching, is *Ron* *Paul* still in the race? Haven't seen any tweets on how he's doing"

Boooooo.

----------


## parocks

> I watched this debate with 3 non-supporters. They have not been following this election yet. In fact, they only thought of Ron as "that crazy guy" going into the debate. 
> 
> What were their thoughts? They said he was the winner of the debate, all three. Why? Well he spoke in plain terms to them, he was coherent and raised questions that were unlike the rest of the field: they weren't directed at Obama negatively. They said he was the only one who seemed *truly genuine in his responses and CARED about the future.* They were disappointed they couldn't hear a question on jobs or foreign policy. 
> 
> They asked me when they can see him again. 
> 
> Folks, you need to step out of this world and look at the big picture. Sure to us it may seem that it was a subpar performance, but we know Ron, we have seen him on his A-Game, most voters have not! It is the primary voter, it is their perception that matters, not ours. There are many debates coming up, this one will just become a blur into the rest of them. Relax. We need to make sure we to make sure we organize for the coming debates and make sure we have supporters in the audience. Do not become discourage and remain active!


I like these mini focus groups.

These were 18-29s, right?  Independents?  Democrats?  Republicans?  Where?

----------


## Chieppa1

> "Speaking of #gopdebate, which I'm not watching, is *Ron* *Paul* still in the race? Haven't seen any tweets on how he's doing"
> 
> Boooooo.


Well, if the person was following "#gopdebdate" they wouldn't read much. #reagandebate.

----------


## NaturalMystic

narrow it down to 3-5 candidates sitting down and ron owns them all

----------


## parocks

> Ron Paul's ideas becoming mainstream isn't a plus!!! WAKE UP!
> 
> Ron Paul's ideas on foreign policy became mainstream in 2000 under Bush, but it didn't matter because Bush was a puppet. We need an honest person who actually believes in Ron Paul's ideas! None of the "mainstream" contenders we saw up there sincerely beleive in Ron Paul's ideas! Don't expect any of them to follow through if elected. We need to get the honest guy elected, and our job would be a lot easier if his ideas weren't being mimiced and ripped-off by everyone else!


There are positive benefits.  The voters will at least expect the candidate to do what they say they'll do.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> OMG.  The death penalty gets huge applause.  What on earth is wrong with humanity?


All the humans

----------


## Dary

Well, if Ron doesn't win the nomination, at least the good news is that none of the rest of 'em will ever be President either. 

I think Ron did great in this debate. He told the truth. He always does. 

But Ron's debate performace (good or bad) isn't the issue

The thing that the establishment republicans need to remember is that in order to win, a candidate HAS to attract the independents, and there is only one candidate who does.

Nominate anyone else but Ron, and they lose (again).

----------


## ctiger2

Hunstman, Santorum, Gingrich & Cain are all polling too low to be included in these debates.

----------


## ctiger2

> Well, if Ron doesn't win the nomination, at least the good news is that none of the rest of 'em will ever be President either. 
> 
> I think Ron did great in this debate. He told the truth. He always does. 
> 
> But Ron's debate performace (good or bad) isn't the issue
> 
> The thing that the establishment republicans need to remember is that in order to win, a candidate HAS to attract the independents, and there is only one candidate who does.
> 
> Nominate anyone else but Ron, and they lose (again).


+1 Ron is the only one who can beat Obama. If Ron isn't the nominee, I'm not even going to bother voting. Statist BS!

----------


## The Midnight Ride

> I like these mini focus groups.
> 
> These were 18-29s, right?  Independents?  Democrats?  Republicans?  Where?


Two were 18-29s and one 50+. The 18-29s I would describe as Bush types and the 50+ a former Huckabee supporter. Unfortunately this is Illinois, but it is still important to consider how the typical voter views Ron, not us.

----------


## justatrey

I must have been watching an old debate or something because in the one I watched, Ron did quite well. He really stood out, which is what we need. What he said about the problem of overly strict borders "keeping us in" is true. That's what Ron does. He tells the truth. Whether it is popular or not, if its true he will say it and that's why I love him. 

Is anyone really surprised that he was treated unfairly? Haven't we watched a debate before? This was incredibly standard. 

Angry at the media? Pledge!
http://www.blackthisout.com/

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> Maybe if he freaking spoke up he'd get some time...


They wont turn his mic on unless they call on him

----------


## LisaNY

I didn't watch the debate, but I just saw a clip on some website of Ron addressing the Gardisil vaccine.  I thought he did great!

----------


## tremendoustie

I thought Ron did excellently. He did get scant attention for the guy currently polling at #3, but that's to be expected. Really, the only disappointing thing about this debate was the response from some here on the forum. I was frankly shocked when I logged in and saw what some were saying here.

Ron needs to differentiate himself from the crowd to win. That's what he did tonight, and he took the fight to perry big time.

----------


## bolidew

> The fact they are co-opting our language means that we are winning.


Our idea is winning but they are taking Paul's voters.

----------


## matt0611

> They wont turn his mic on unless they call on him


I cringe when candidates speak out of turn and complain that they aren't getting equal time, even if its true. 
Santorum did this last time and it made him look like a dbag. 
Ron is too awesome to actually straight out do that.

----------


## RP4Peace

> they are taking Paul's voters.


 That's will NOT happen.. EVER!!!

----------


## ronpaulfan13

If you have an iPhone or iPad you can check out some of the youtube clips on the Ron Paul Mobile App!  Search for Ron Paul Mobile in the app store or go here http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ron-p...48219846?mt=8#

----------


## justatrey

> I cringe when candidates speak out of turn and complain that they aren't getting equal time, even if its true. 
> Santorum did this last time and it made him look like a dbag. 
> Ron is too awesome to actually straight out do that.


+1

Ron always takes the high road. While he'll never just start speaking out of turn, I don't lose any respect for him when he does small things to level the playing field. Answering the questions he wasn't asked, speaking a little longer than you're supposed to, saying "there are 8 of us up here", etc. He need to do more of that because it shows he's not a pushover, but he still doesn't come across as a whiner.

----------


## RonPaulFever

Rep to the first person who posts a compilation video of Ron's answers.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> I do not trust any of them other than our man.  Just cause they talk the talk does not mean they walk the walk.





> Part of me really wants to agree with this.  OTOH, I can't help but wonder if the classical liberals felt that way  the first time they heard 'liberal' used to denote big-government  handouts. Eventually they lost the liberal word to big-government  supporters.


Well of course, but it's our job to ensure that their inconsistency is brought to the forefront.

----------


## parocks

> Two were 18-29s and one 50+. The 18-29s I would describe as Bush types and the 50+ a former Huckabee supporter. Unfortunately this is Illinois, but it is still important to consider how the typical voter views Ron, not us.


I agree entirely.  And Illinois is a good state to be doing well in.  The 8 Northern Midwest states from PA to MN are important.

----------


## affa

> Lol @ the excuse "low post count people dont count" Some of you really can't except reality.


Every debate, without fail, 'old' accounts with low posts come forward to slam Ron Paul and shape discussion on this forum.

You may or may not be one of these people, I have no idea. And assuming you aren't, you should know, this happens.

----------


## Tinnuhana

So I just got through with my classes and saw 155 in chat room but don't have Java. Do you think Ron was a bit off thinking about blowback from the new ad? How badly did Perry do? Examples?

----------


## bolidew

> narrow it down to 3-5 candidates sitting down and ron owns them all


I remember the last debate Paul took part in last cycle was for 4 guys only and not so great.

----------


## Napoleon's Shadow

> "Bernanke's over inflated the amount of currency he's created" ~Mitt Perry
> 
> *WTF*


That means Romney has polled the Bernanke issue, and knows that everyone hates him.

----------


## DrN0

> Every debate, without fail, 'old' accounts with low posts come forward to slam Ron Paul and shape discussion on this forum.
> 
> You may or may not be one of these people, I have no idea. And assuming you aren't, you should know, this happens.


It's ok to be realistic about his performance tonight. Also, like others have noted, his frankness allows him to stand out regardless of how many people steal his platform.

With that said, it always makes me laugh when you yahoos that LIVE on the internet and forums slight the opinions of those of us who actually HAVE A LIFE and don't spend every waking moment chatting it up in the forums. You folks piss me off. The idea that somehow you are better than me just because you have a million posts is absolutely backwards thinking. You're idiots.

----------


## pinkmandy

> Well, if Ron doesn't win the nomination, at least the good news is that none of the rest of 'em will ever be President either. 
> 
> I think Ron did great in this debate. He told the truth. He always does. 
> 
> But Ron's debate performace (good or bad) isn't the issue
> 
> The thing that the establishment republicans need to remember is that in order to win, a candidate HAS to attract the independents, and there is only one candidate who does.
> 
> Nominate anyone else but Ron, and they lose (again).


Amen. They will lose. 

RP has always done this. He gets up on stage, gets squeezed in time so that he fumbles when he tries to cram so much in and then, every now and again, something pops out like "fencing us in". But, it's truth and while not popular it opened up another topic of conversation. The police state in this country is a serious situation and it should be addressed. Here's our in. 

His willingness to say what others would not is why he has my support. It's why many of us have been talking about RP since at least 2007 (some longer), correcting MSM errors to friends/family/net buddies, etc. It's not always comfortable because we know what's coming next...the MSM marginalization, the lunatic fringe comments, crazy old uncle, gadfly, etc. BUT, keep in mind that he is polling 3rd nationally and that the constant RP talk for the past 4 years has been seeping in as the economy continues to crumble, more wars are launched and the corruption becomes more blatant to most Americans with every passing day. They may be stunned by what he said but he does have more credibility with the people now regardless of what the media spouts. The MSM framed questions and lack of time are becoming very apparent, the people know he has been right, and this can be turned to Paul's favor. I think if the media attacks him on this it may backfire on them. Especially once we help educate a growing audience of people so fed up they're now willing to listen.

----------


## Tinnuhana

Before you go for narrowing the field, remember that that got us really upset when the networks were saying that as an excuse to keep Ron out of debates last cycle. 
Let's keep moving ahead. And someone make sure RP gets lots of rest between now and the next debate.

----------


## KingNothing

Paul really hammered the final question.  If he could have answered the few questions he was actually given like that, he'd have crushed this thing.

----------


## BillyDkid

I guess I'm glad I missed the debate.  I would end up feeling even more bitter and depressed about the media than I am now.  The shamelessness of the gate keepers is sickening.  I hate what this country has become.  I pray to God that someone in the media has the decency to point out how Ron was treated (from what I have read).  What's more, it's not about them treating Ron bad - which is bad enough - it's about their contempt for the American people's right to hear all of the candidates.

----------


## South Park Fan

I think people here are really making much ado about nothing. A neocon acquaintance posted that he thought Ron would make a great candidate if he were a more eloquent speaker, and he's also determined to research Rick Perry's praise of Hillarycare and mandatory vaccination program, along with Romney's mandate.

----------


## BillyDkid

I have to add that Ron should point out to the moderators that their treatment of his views is an insult to the American people right to hear each candidate.  He should not be afraid to shame them.  They should be ashamed.  except they have no shame.

----------


## DrN0

> I think people here are really making much ado about nothing. A neocon acquaintance posted that he thought Ron would make a great candidate if he were a more eloquent speaker, and he's also determined to research Rick Perry's praise of Hillarycare and mandatory vaccination program, along with Romney's mandate.


I agree wholeheartedly. He made his points, had a few good responses, more debates to come, no big deal on our end. However, PErry got f#cked tonight. Now the word is out. People are going to look into it and see he's full of $hit.

----------


## pauliticalfan

NBC should be ashamed of themselves. What a piss poor debate. How hard is it to give everyone equal time? Someone buy Brian Williams and that Politico douche a stop watch.

----------


## rockandrollsouls

Didn't see all of it, but from what I saw I thought his performance was very off...incredibly disappointed. I know everyone is saying Perry got shelled, but when I heard him speak it sounded like he was really bred for this. If I had to guess he came out a huge winner...its sickening to see this obvious plan composed years ago come to fruition, though. 

It always has been and will be Perry...uhg.

----------


## pipewerKz



----------


## dusman

I'll tell you what. Perry best get his hands off Ron Paul. 

http://www.drudgereport.com

----------


## pipewerKz

> I'll tell you what. Perry best get his hands off Ron Paul. 
> 
> http://www.drudgereport.com


Yeah, what's that all about. Looks like he's trying to give Ron a stern talking to.

----------


## CUnknown

> Seriously, what the $#@!, people?  I thought Ron did great.  Why are we all being a bunch of negative nancies?


I know, I don't understand.  Ron did great.  The fence answer, and also criticizing Reagan, were exactly the right things to do.  The American people need to see that someone is telling the truth in these debates.  With all the other candidates trying to sound like him, Ron is moving the ball further and distinguishing himself.  I really believe that the voting public today wants someone to be man enough to tell them the truth, even if they don't want to hear it at first.  There is still a long way to go, guys.  If this was January and Ron had a lead, I agree these things would be mistakes.  Now is not the time to play it safe, he needs to break through.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

Ron wasn't at his best when he attempted to go on the attack, but the fence answer?

Music to my ears.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Ron wasn't at his best when he attempted to go on the attack, but the fence answer?
> 
> Music to my ears.


Man, we're like inches away from Soviet style oppression here and Americans are just ignorant of the whole damn thing.  If America collapses into totalitarianism, then the history books will record that Ron Paul warned us it was happening and people laughed him off.  That's the kind of record we are going to need if there is any hope that our people will be the ones to rebuild after the collapse.

----------


## CUnknown

> Didn't see all of it, but from what I saw I thought his performance was very off...incredibly disappointed. I know everyone is saying Perry got shelled, but when I heard him speak it sounded like he was really bred for this. If I had to guess he came out a huge winner...its sickening to see this obvious plan composed years ago come to fruition, though. 
> 
> It always has been and will be Perry...uhg.


Perry looked like a talking gorilla up there, he did terrible.  If the GOP nominates him, they deserve what they get.  He has no chance of winning over independents -- Obama wins in possibly a landslide against him.  I don't think the average GOP voter is so stupid, I really don't.  I predict his numbers decline from this debate.

----------


## Rfalcon51

I only saw the RP highlights from pipewerKz's link above, but I think all of his answers were great.  He handled them all very well, and you can tell
they were trying to "get" him.

----------


## Sjmfury

Good Debate by Ron, as Bachmann falls and Perry falls Paul with Climb!

Remember to get out and SUPPORT Ron Paul!

----------


## affa

> It's ok to be realistic about his performance tonight. Also, like others have noted, his frankness allows him to stand out regardless of how many people steal his platform.
> 
> With that said, it always makes me laugh when you yahoos that LIVE on the internet and forums slight the opinions of those of us who actually HAVE A LIFE and don't spend every waking moment chatting it up in the forums. You folks piss me off. The idea that somehow you are better than me just because you have a million posts is absolutely backwards thinking. You're idiots.


Divisive much?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> I'll tell you what. Perry best get his hands off Ron Paul. 
> 
> http://www.drudgereport.com


The comments on the article Drudge linked to are truly facepalm worthy.  Epic Boobus Americanus fail.

----------


## BamaAla

I'm just now watching, and this is terrible. What's with these ludicrous questions? They aren't asking him anything remotely pertinent. Their questions are like the questions we country kids used to ask city kids when their families moved out to the sticks.. Our "did y'all have McDonald's in the lunchroom" is just like the moderator's "who regulates drugs and what about the pilots durrr."

----------


## Theocrat

According to the media's standards, Ron Paul is a "top-tier" candidate because he comes in 3rd Place in most polls. Yet, he got the *least* amount of questions in the debate (even though he was the first to receive applause from the audience).

----------


## kr1963

> Bachmann's hair looks really good.  Not as great as Perry's but still.


As a make up artist I would say um NO. She let it grow out & it looks she didn't know what to do with it. Perry's stylist looks like 1970 Gay-Ken hair...not that there's anything wrong with that.

----------


## Tinnuhana

@Gunny
Unfortunately, if the USA collapses into totalitarianism, the history books won't even mention Ron Paul or will talk about him like they do about some of FDR's opponents. The positive to this is that the nation has been here before (read "Salvo Against the New Deal"), and though never fully recovered, it came back enough that today's erosion of freedom is noticible to many. The Goldwater revolution took 16 yrs to culminate in a Reagan presidency. If Ron wins, that's a mere four years to foment another change like that. And, unlike Reagan, we have a candidate who can't be swayed. 
Look at those photos of Romney and Perry with Nancy Reagan! I wonder if she and Ron talked at all before or after the debate. What a wonderful thing a Nancy Reagan endorsement would be, given the falling out he and her husband had over the final years of Reagan's presidency.

----------


## Razmear

Just googled: 
perry assault ron paul
this is going viral fast. 

eb

edit, wrong thread, my bad.

----------


## Bruno

55,000 + views

----------


## invisible

> Someone made a comment about the expression on Ron's face as he walked off stage and greeted Carol. What was the expression?


Ok, since two of you have asked about it and no one else has answered, either everyone had missed it or had stopped watching in disgust or were throwing things at the tv set.  Ron sort of puffed up his cheeks and blew out a big breath, then shook his head.  It was the most upset / angry / disgusted / frustrated I've ever seen him look.  There was something there in his eyes that I've never seen before, he looked like he was ready to punch someone.

----------


## BuddyRey

> Ok, since two of you have asked about it and no one else has answered, either everyone had missed it or had stopped watching in disgust or were throwing things at the tv set.  Ron sort of puffed up his cheeks and blew out a big breath, then shook his head.  It was the most upset / angry / disgusted / frustrated I've ever seen him look.  There was something there in his eyes that I've never seen before, he looked like he was ready to punch someone.


Did that make it onto the official debate footage, and by extension, onto the YouTube vids?

----------


## BamaAla

> Did that make it onto the official debate footage, and by extension, onto the YouTube vids?


Doubtful. It was at the end when they were doing the split-screen showing the people in the studio and different camera angles of the candidates post debate. Dr. Paul walked toward his wife and did one of those big sighs where your cheeks expand really big and your lips separate as the wind blows out (I have no idea how to better explain it.) He was shaking his head as he was doing and starting to talk to her. 

They cut away before you could read his lips, but he looked really disappointed about something to me. I make that face when Bama or the Braves lose.

----------


## BuddyRey

^  I know exactly what you mean.  Kind of like how Ron sighed and shook his head back in '08 when McCain said Ron's kind of "isolationism" allowed Hitler to come to power?  If so, there's two ways we can interpret this; either he was pissed off at not having received sufficient time by MSNBC staff during the debate, or he was venting as a reaction to something inappropriate and/or threatening that Perry might have said to him during their exchange.

----------


## afwjam

I hope somebody has a tube of this.

----------


## BamaAla

> ^  I know exactly what you mean.  Kind of like how Ron sighed and shook his head back in '08 when McCain said Ron's kind of "isolationism" allowed Hitler to come to power?  If so, there's two ways we can interpret this; either he was pissed off at not having received sufficient time by MSNBC staff during the debate, or he was venting as a reaction to something inappropriate and/or threatening that Perry might have said to him during their exchange.


I didn't really take it that way. If we're thinking about the same thing (I think it was LE's avatar,) he looked confident and resolute in that exchange. The look on his face tonight was one of dejection. I don't want to overstate the situation because it was only a few seconds in split screen, but it was a look I haven't seen on Ron Paul's face before.

----------


## Diurdi

Just watched the Ron Paul highlights reel and without any rose-tinted glasses, I think he did well. He didn't even make any extremely controversial answers - he stressed that States can take care of alot what the Federal government is doing now if need to be.

----------


## go_cardinals11

Huntsman probably got the 3rd most amount of time.....

----------


## acptulsa

> They better air it on CNBC.  If they were smart, NBC would air it on all their channels. They go to all this trouble and only air the GOP debate on their liberal news station?


So all their channels can pretend the next day that only Perry and Romney were there.  Controlling the thing isn't about airing it, it's about, well, _controlling_ the news.  You just haven't learned GEThink yet...

----------


## Brett85

> Huntsman probably got the 3rd most amount of time.....


Huntsman has always been MSNBC's preferred candidate.  They're big fans of liberal Republicans.

----------


## specsaregood

> Huntsman has always been MSNBC's preferred candidate.  They're big fans of liberal Republicans.


Also, he attacked Romney.  Attacking Romney has officially been approved.

----------


## acptulsa

> So everyone gets a job questions EXCEPT Ron Paul. - WTF?


Ron Paul is the only one with an intelligent answer to that question.  Can't have that...

----------


## Todd

> I don't see what was so bad about tonight's debate. Ron didn't make any gaffe that anyone's talking about. They froze him out and pushed the mainstream guys, big wow. We should expect that already.


There was one comment that made me cringe.   When he said he would remove the air conditions from the troops in Iraq, you and I know what he meant.  But the average voter watching probably didn't hear it as a plea to bring the troops home.  All they heard was he would take amenities away from troops in a war zone.

----------


## jrspc

In the sound bite era from 1960 to 2008 you would be correct that Ron Paul's performance would be viewed as sub-par. And of course the bought and paid for media is still trying to cram that down our throats telling us that Perry and Romney won and that they are the front-runners. But they are missing the paradigm shift that has occurred in the country. Enough of us are awake and every human element of Dr. Paul’s struggle on the stage actually plays to his advantage. He is the only thing on the stage that is real. The moderators and all the other candidates are still playing to an audience they think is asleep. I’m awake. I was a delegate for Obama in ’08. Wake the person up next to you. We must return to the constitution and take back our civil liberties. Ron Paul knew what the country needed to do 30 years ago and now the rest of us are catching up to him.

----------


## YumYum

> In the sound bite era from 1960 to 2008 you would be correct that Ron Paul's performance would be viewed as sub-par. And of course the bought and paid for media is still trying to cram that down our throats telling us that Perry and Romney won and that they are the front-runners. But they are missing the paradigm shift that has occurred in the country. Enough of us are awake and every human element of Dr. Paul’s struggle on the stage actually plays to his advantage. He is the only thing on the stage that is real. The moderators and all the other candidates are still playing to an audience they think is asleep. I’m awake. I was a delegate for Obama in ’08. Wake the person up next to you. We must return to the constitution and take back our civil liberties. Ron Paul knew what the country needed to do 30 years ago and now the rest of us are catching up to him.


Do you think that any part of Ron's replies were scripted?

----------


## civusamericanus

> In the sound bite era from 1960 to 2008 you would be correct that Ron Paul's performance would be viewed as sub-par. And of course the bought and paid for media is still trying to cram that down our throats telling us that Perry and Romney won and that they are the front-runners. But they are missing the paradigm shift that has occurred in the country. Enough of us are awake and every human element of Dr. Paul’s struggle on the stage actually plays to his advantage. He is the only thing on the stage that is real. The moderators and all the other candidates are still playing to an audience they think is asleep. I’m awake. I was a delegate for Obama in ’08. Wake the person up next to you. We must return to the constitution and take back our civil liberties. Ron Paul knew what the country needed to do 30 years ago and now the rest of us are catching up to him.


Welcome jrspc, not a bad 1st post.

----------


## jrspc

(YumYum) Scripted?? 

I believe that Dr. Paul enters the debate prepared to answer the questions that he is asked to field as best he can once the question is posed. He probably does this by planning ahead about what he thinks he will be asked. And by reminding himself of what his most important points are to get across on the various issues. However, it is clear that the puppet master’s agenda is to try to paint him off in a marginalized corner as “crazy”.  So the questions are loaded and purposeful in their content. I do not think Dr Paul spits out rehearsed answers or canned/scripted talking points. I think he speaks from the heart and soul of the person that he is who truly believes in what he is saying. And I believe enough of the country is looking for a President with a soul. A real person. 

(Civuamericanus) I appreciate your kind words.

----------


## jrspc

America is the most important country that has ever existed in known (recorded) human history. And like all organisms (or institutions) it has its own life force that is finite and must at some point end. I want our country to recognize that this is not just another day at the office. That our constitution and civil liberties must have breath pumped into to them or they will perish. It is up to each of those awake to find another spirit next to you that is calling for help. Obviously, many around us are so deep in REM that energy spent towards their potential recitation will be wasted. Thus, you must focus your attention not on the awakened and not the poor souls in profound hibernation but those that appear to be restless. Provide an alternative to people that seek change, or a new way to see things. Each of us must have the courage to do this because we understand that our country is worth fighting for.

----------


## LawnWake

Worst part of the debate, by far, was the amount of applause Perry got for his support of legal murder. How in hell can you believe in 'small government' and believe that the government has the right to eliminate something as precious as a human life? Support for the death penalty is just so unspeakably inhumane.

----------


## IndianaPolitico

http://campaign2012.washingtonexamin...olitico-debate
Here is a good article on the debate. Quite favorible towards Ron Paul.

----------


## JohnGalt23g

> Worst part of the debate, by far, was the amount of applause Perry got for his support of legal murder. How in hell can you believe in 'small government' and believe that the government has the right to eliminate something as precious as a human life? Support for the death penalty is just so unspeakably inhumane.


Ron Pau is running for the GOP nomination for POTUS.

The GOP is a party that is absolutely dedicated to the practice of capital punishment.  It is up there with tax cuts in popularity within the GOP.

Time to get used to that fact.

----------


## IndianaPolitico

Let's take out our anger, by promoting the next money bomb! It is only a few days away!

*Share videos!*


*Invite on Facebook!*
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=221373634578417

----------


## mport1

Just had a good friend who NEVER talks politics say that he liked how Ron Paul tells it like it is.  He liked how Ron Paul straight up said we should abolish the minimum wage, get rid of FAA and healthcare regulations, etc.

----------


## Bruno

...

----------


## Shane Harris

yeah i suppsoe thats what ron paul does so well. when every politico and cake-faced reporter says he lost and isnt electable because hes too fringe, the real people of america who hate politicians and the fake sincerity of self-glorified legacy-seeking egomaniacs see ron paul as a real, genuine, honest human being telling it like it is and putting principle above poltical popularity. a portion of the non-voting population loves ron for these reasons. the key is making them voters

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## Tod

I just voted in the US News & World Report poll and added this comment:

*Dr Paul was not even at the top of his game and he STILL won.  Why?  Because of his MESSAGE.  The others have started to adopt parts of his message, but that only makes them imitators who recognize the truth in the original.

Why vote for a imitation when you can have the original good Doctor?  Ron Paul 2012!  For Liberty, Sound Currency and a Solid Defense, all culminating in the proper environment for Economic Rebound!*

Link to article/poll here:

hxxp://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/09/08/who-won-the-gop-debate?

----------


## wgadget

> Worst part of the debate, by far, was the amount of applause Perry got for his support of legal murder. How in hell can you believe in 'small government' and believe that the government has the right to eliminate something as precious as a human life? Support for the death penalty is just so unspeakably inhumane.


I'm wondering...I read somewhere that Ron Paul's applause was intentionally muted by the audio team.  Seems that Perry's death penalty applause was NOT MUTED at all...Anyone know anything about the mute button at the debate?

Listen to the end of this clip, when Ron Paul is talking about the silver dime buying a gallon of gas..It's weird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXIa_T-ueA

----------


## pacelli

I also want to know why there were flickers of red colors (filters?) that crossed over Perry's image once during the debate.  Not sure when it happened, but I saw it and I was like, "come on guys, get your camera filters out of the way".

----------


## TheTyke

It only takes a few real trolls to stimulate our natural anxiety. After all, we are taking on the entire Establishment and media. What we need is confidence and unflinching resolve to keep up the fight against all odds.

As multiple sources have testified, our numbers grew during the debate, and average folks were impressed. In fact, every bit of exposure we manage to get in spite the media stranglehold, will expand our movement. Every debate we are in, every interview we get is a victory. The only time the movement shrinks is if we give in to discouragement or weariness and allow our efforts to subside. So ignore the trolls, encourage dismayed brothers, and charge once again into the fight!

*"The American revolutionaries did the impossible. So can we."* - _Ron Paul_

----------


## matt0611

> I also want to know why there were flickers of red colors (filters?) that crossed over Perry's image once during the debate.  Not sure when it happened, but I saw it and I was like, "come on guys, get your camera filters out of the way".


I think it was a secret signal created by the NWO

----------


## eleganz

> I'm wondering...I read somewhere that Ron Paul's applause was intentionally muted by the audio team.  Seems that Perry's death penalty applause was NOT MUTED at all...Anyone know anything about the mute button at the debate?
> 
> Listen to the end of this clip, when Ron Paul is talking about the silver dime buying a gallon of gas..It's weird.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXIa_T-ueA


No, the audience wanted to clap for it but they were moving on quickly, usually in an audience when there is applause but the program continues to move on, people stop because it is rude to clap when others are speaking, unless-of course everybody is clapping, then the performer or speaker will wait for it to finish.

----------


## SilentBull

I think that Ron Paul DID try to prepare and that was the problem. I had never seen him looking at notes while talking. He's not used to doing that. If he had stuck to his usual, he actually would have done better, I think.

----------


## Suzu

> Fema


I'd like to know how you manage to post just one word. I tried that a couple times and was stopped by a screen that said something like "you must post at least two words". What's the deal?

----------


## low preference guy

> The answer on the fence is the type of thing that can kill someone's chances.


zero chance of that happening. you're spending too much time at hotair.

----------


## pacelli

> I think that Ron Paul DID try to prepare and that was the problem. I had never seen him looking at notes while talking. He's not used to doing that. If he had stuck to his usual, he actually would have done better, I think.


I noticed that as well.  I THINK what happened is that Ron writes down bullet points when he hears somebody say something.. but since these people are asked more follow up questions before Ron got a chance to answer a bull$#@! question, Ron spits out his bullet points while trying to answer a bull$#@! question.

I think when most people talk about "prepare" they're referring to perhaps asking Doug Wead to coach Ron ahead of the debate.

----------


## pacelli

dbl post, no idea why, sorry

----------


## South Park Fan

More food for thought: My AP Gov teacher (a conservative) used Ron Paul's answer on federal welfare as an example of conservative judicial thought, that such matters are best handled at the local level.

----------


## brushfire

I've been listening to the debates all day today (getting lots of distractions)

I did see a youtube post that I found interesting:



> Perry: 21 questions
> 
> Romney: 12
> 
> Bachmann: 11
> 
> Paul: 8
> 
> Huntsman: 8
> ...

----------


## John of Des Moines

> I'd like to know how you manage to post just one word. I tried that a couple times and was stopped by a screen that said something like "you must post at least two words". What's the deal?


Post a two word post then edit it after it's posted.

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## South Park Fan

Did anyone else seem to notice that the neocons are in full retreat? Aside from Ron Paul's principled opposition to interventionism, Huntsman called outright for full withdrawal from Afghanistan, Perry and Cain called for the abolition of the TSA, Perry and Romney criticized Obama's interventionist foreign policy, and Bachmann criticized Obama's actions in Libya. Santorum was the only one actually clinging to neocon rhetoric. While none of the above candidates spare Ron Paul would likely follow through with these positions if elected, it is indicative of where the mood of the GOP base is at this point.

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## kr1963

This was just a LESSON.

Do not get discouraged.

THis is what THEY intend to do...they will play dirty the rest of the way. They are serious as a heart attack about keeping the power. Why would you think that it would be any other way.

RP will re-group & come at them harder. He will become more focused on his message every step of the way from here on out.

MSNBC tried to ask SPECIFIC questions that would detract from the overall message & make RP look dysfunctional. They didn't ask any questions to him re: the main talking points in politics BECAUSE he has the answers & would have buitl a tremendous momentum if he would have talked ECONMICS, Monetary Policy & Foreign Policy.

They are $#@!ERS. Treat them as such. THEY are criminals. Treat them as such. 

WE do not need their permission to exist or have ideas. When the laws are written by criminals & enforced by their cronies YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM. Not at all.

RP is not listening to them. Maybe he got a little complacent b/c of all the media he had been getting with Rand had been a sheer affluence in comparison to 2008 but now I think he sees: it ain't gonna change & he is going WE ARE GOING to have to take it to them.

Let's START...

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## NorfolkPCSolutions

> They are $#@!ERS. Treat them as such. THEY are criminals. Treat them as such.


I didn't want to say it, but you said it for me.  Thank you.  Take off the gloves and let's ROCK

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## JohnGalt23g

> zero chance of that happening. you're spending too much time at hotair.


Son, if you don't think that's a serious gaffe, then you need to put the bottle down.  

Puffery and fairy dust is for children.  This is bloodsport.  If you think that's the last time you're going to hear about it, think again.  All I can hope for is that the campaign is prepared when they do.

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## Suzu

> Post a two word post then edit it after it's posted.


Why bother?

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## YumYum

> I didn't want to say it, but you said it for me.  Thank you.  Take off the gloves and let's ROCK


You just gave me an excellent idea. As an amateur boxer who has worked out with fighters in MMA, the Democrats and Republicans could sponsor various fighters who represent their Parties. They could scream at each other about their different views on policies, and then fight each other. They crowd would go ape$#@! insane!

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