# Lifestyles & Discussion > Freedom Living >  Can you get rid of your social security number?

## Wendi

I have no idea where this goes so if it belongs in another section mods please put it in the right place 

I know that it is technically possible to not ever get a social security number for your child but even that is getting harder and harder now days unless you have a home birth.  BUT what if your parents didn't consider the consequences and saddled you with one.  Is there a way to get rid of it?  If so... how?  I know if anyone knows where to even begin it would be someone here lol...

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## newyearsrevolution08

> I have no idea where this goes so if it belongs in another section mods please put it in the right place 
> 
> I know that it is technically possible to not ever get a social security number for your child but even that is getting harder and harder now days unless you have a home birth.  BUT what if your parents didn't consider the consequences and saddled you with one.  Is there a way to get rid of it?  If so... how?  I know if anyone knows where to even begin it would be someone here lol...


Stop using it, now with that comes issues. Like most jobs, medical care among most anything else REQUIRES it. Taxes as well will need that fun number as well.

Only way I could see NOT using it is simple.

1. Own your own business and use your business tax id for tax purposes
2. See if you can use OTHER forms of identification besides the ss card
3. Maybe making income that you don't report and hope nothing ever comes back to kick you in the butt as far as back taxes and potential jail time for not handing over the funds.
4. claim exempt on your taxes - I think you can tell your employer to NOT file because that is not mandatory for them to do so and it is a personal decision. Taxes are voluntary or that is the way I see it.

 To live a normal and happy American life right now though, I think the only way to live happy without one is to become an illegal alien and get a free ride that way.

 Wonder if there are any employers who do not believe in income being taxed and would not require that you give them a ss card.

 I can't think of too many NEEDED things in our lives that do NOT require one whether as simple paperwork or as a requirement.

 great topic and can't wait for MORE informed people than myself to toss some knowledge out.

 Can you ask that your child NOT have a social security card? If that is true than I have a baby on the way who I would love to take off the grid. My son didn't get that opportunity but I am not sure if you can actually decline it AND get medical care for the child.

 It would be great if all you needed to show was a birth cert and id and leave the money draining and a waste of income SOCIAL SECURITY to the old folks who got suckered into it.

 I don't work a regular job and don't pay personal taxes in that fashion myself so odds are I would not really see much when I "retire". 


great topic

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## Melissa

I met a guy awhile back in the LP party and he said he did not get his 2 kids SS numbers and they are over 18 now, so yes it can be done, not give your kids SS numbers, but not sure how, if you want more info let me know and will see if I can find his contact info

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## newyearsrevolution08

> I met a guy awhile back in the LP party and he said he did not get his 2 kids SS numbers and they are over 18 now, so yes it can be done, not give your kids SS numbers, but not sure how, if you want more info let me know and will see if I can find his contact info


I want that info as well. I would love to do that for my newborn whenever he or she arrives.

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## RSLudlum

> I want that info as well. I would love to do that for my newborn whenever he or she arrives.


http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10023.html#must

make sure you read/ask questions about all the hospital forms before you sign them.

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## newyearsrevolution08

> http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10023.html#must
> 
> make sure you read/ask questions about all the hospital forms before you sign them.


sweet thank you...

damn the man

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## ghengis86

just had a son and he's not getting an SSN.

I filled out the birth certificate paperwork with the hospital for the county.  on the form, there is a question which asks:

"do you want XXXXXXX county to apply for a social sercurity number with the State Department of health?  Yes/No"

I checked the "No" box.  Now the interesting part.

I got a 'birth confirmation' letter from the hospital's recaords department stating that they've sent the info to the county to get a birth certificate.  It also said "Permission has been given to apply for a social security number from the State Department of health"
I knew I checked "no" so i called the hospital's records department and reache thel ady in charge of records.  i simply told her that I didn't want them to apply for a number and that i'd do it myself.  she looked up my file and sure enough, i had checked no.  she said that everyone checks "yes" so she must have just missed this one.  she said she had no idea if this could be reversed or not, or if anyone has ever requested this.  i told her to contact the state department of health and let them know she made a mistake.  she said she would.  a few minutes later she called back and told me that they hadn't received the paperwork yet and that they'd make sure not to apply for an SSN.  she also said she'd call back to confirm that thigns were filed correctly with the state.   it went very well and i was pleasantly suprised.

i have no idea how you can get rid of your current SSN.  i'm just trying to give my son a leg up.  when he's old enough, he can choose to get one or not.  i wish my parents did this for me.

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## american.swan

I have two sons.  One son I got a SS number for him, but I regret it.  I also don't know what the number is because I never got the documentation back.  I no longer live at the address the SS information would have been sent to.  So to get the number I'd have to request the documents again from the SS admin and I am not inclined to do it.

My second son as of yet isn't an American.  He's registered as a Korean national.  I will get him a US passport in the future and I will make a point of not getting a SS number for him.

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## craezie

I considered this with my son, but you cannot get a passport for a minor without a social security number.  Foreign travel is important to us, so just FYI you are giving up the option to leave the country if you don't get a SSN.

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## jsu718

> I considered this with my son, but you cannot get a passport for a minor without a social security number.  Foreign travel is important to us, so just FYI you are giving up the option to leave the country if you don't get a SSN.


No, not the option to leave the country... just the option to come back in most of the time. Crossing the border to other countries I have gotten by fine with a birth certificate and ID. I guess Obama would have had trouble.

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## Voluntary Man

> Can you ask that your child NOT have a social security card?


Yes.

4 children. 0 SSNs.

It helps if you have testicles, though, since the hospital personnel seem to believe it's required by law; it isn't. 

Just say NO, politely the first time they ask you to fill out the SSN forms, then more firmly each successive time, until they stop asking. Give them a break, at first, since they're just ignorant and accustomed to everyone else immediately acquiescing. Chances are, the first time you send them back to do their homework, unless they're truly ignorant fascists, the'll discover you're right and won't bother you again. Even the persistent ones don't have a leg to stand on, so just shrug them off. 

If it makes you feel better to give an explanation, simply say that accepting the mark of the beast is a decision you'd rather leave up to your child.

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## pcosmar

> If it makes you feel better to give an explanation, simply say that accepting the mark of the beast is a decision you'd rather leave up to your child.




I got mine when I was 12, before I understood much. First job and taxes. It then became my Army serial no.
I did live for 7 years, on the run from legal authorities and worked several jobs.. 
I just made one up. Works fine as long as you don't file a tax return.

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## Voluntary Man

> http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10023.html#must
> 
> make sure you read/ask questions about all the hospital forms before you sign them.


Thanks.

My favorite FAQ was "What if I lose my card?"

Why, SSA will simply tattoo the # on your hand and forehead, of course.

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## tfurrh

What about for yourself, not for your kid? besides this.......

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4029.pdf

do you just stop using it? stop giving it out?

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## lilymc

Thank you for asking this question. I've been trying to get answers on this too, for a long time.

Well, actually, several years ago I asked about changing the number, because when I had a temp job one time, a bunch of social security numbers were stolen from the building I worked at, and apparently an illegal in So Cal was using my ss#.  I didn't really get much help with that, but the impression I got was that it's impossible to change your #.  Getting rid of it altogether sounds like a better idea.

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## Voluntary Man

> What about for yourself, not for your kid? besides this.......
> 
> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4029.pdf
> 
> do you just stop using it? stop giving it out?


Since SSA refuses to delete files of dormant SSNs, and will not reissue the #, it will always be "yours," in a sense -- always just sitting there, waiting for you to reactivate it. 

How you feel about telling those who request an SSN that you "don't have one" is up to you. It does make it more complicated to opt-out of such requests on the basis of simply not having a #. 

However, if part of your opposition is religious (or philosophical), anyway, simply refusing to use or acknowledge the # could be sufficient (especially if it was imposed upon you without your consent or knowledge). 

A valid interpretation of the reference to the # being in the head and hand is that it becomes a part of our thoughts and actions; when it is no longer remembered or used, and when no artifact of it is retained or replaced, in that sense, the # ceases to be yours, especially if you never accepted it in the first place.

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## Voluntary Man

> I got mine when I was 12, before I understood much. First job and taxes. It then became my Army serial no.
> I did live for 7 years, on the run from legal authorities and worked several jobs.. 
> I just made one up. Works fine as long as you don't file a tax return.


At least your parents didn't do it to you.

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## heavenlyboy34

Awesome thread, thnx.

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## eduardo89

> No, not the option to leave the country... just the option to come back in most of the time. Crossing the border to other countries I have gotten by fine with a birth certificate and ID. I guess Obama would have had trouble.


You can't fly with a birth certificate. International flights always require a passport. You used to be able to cross the border on foot/by car with just a just certificate. You can't anymore. You can still cross if you have a Real ID compliant state ID/enhanced drivers license, but only to Canada and only by car/foot/boat. 


Edit: REAL ID compliant ID's and drivers licenses require a SSN




> *Documentation required before issuing a license or ID card*
> Before a card can be issued, the applicant must provide the following documentation:
> 
> A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.
> Documentation of birth date.
> Documentation of legal status and *Social Security number*
> Documentation showing name and principal residence address.
> 
> Digital images of each identity document will be stored in each state DMV database.


Therefore, for all international travel a Social Security number is needed. You need one to get a passport, passport card or REAL ID compliant ID or Enhanced DL

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## Danke

> Therefore, for all international travel a Social Security number is needed. You need one to get a passport, passport card or REAL ID compliant ID or Enhanced DL


You do not need a SSN to get a passport.  I left the field blank.

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## eduardo89

> You do not need a SSN to get a passport.  I left the field blank.


By law you do have to provide a SSN. Look up 26 U.S.C. 6039E. Maximum penalty is a fine of $500.

If you use the online application form, you can't go to page 2 unless you insert an SSN.

Edit: you are required by law to provide a SSN *only if you already have one.* 



> Section 6039E of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. 6039E) requires you to provide your Social Security Number (SSN), if you have one, when you apply for a U.S. passport or renewal of a U.S. passport. If you have not been issued a SSN, enter zeros in box #5 of the passport application form you are completing.

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## Voluntary Man

> By law you do have to provide a SSN. Look up 26 U.S.C. 6039E. Maximum penalty is a fine of $500.
> 
> If you use the online application form, you can't go to page 2 unless you insert an SSN.
> 
> Edit: you are required by law to provide a SSN *only if you already have one.*


Just enter this default #:


666-66-6666  

.........................

Just saw your edit. Yes. That's the point people keep missing: you are required (by law) to DISCLOSE your SSN to certain government agencies, as a condition of receiving "services." However, you are NOT required to have a #. So, if you have no #, you must truthfully disclose that fact (there's a penalty for falsely claiming "no #"). "Service" can not be denied you. However, most bureaucrats are as ignorant of this fact as the test of the public, because they encounter this circumstance as often as they encounter Big Foot. It's up to us to educate ourselves and them.

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## mrsat_98

> I have no idea where this goes so if it belongs in another section mods please put it in the right place 
> 
> I know that it is technically possible to not ever get a social security number for your child but even that is getting harder and harder now days unless you have a home birth.  BUT what if your parents didn't consider the consequences and saddled you with one.  Is there a way to get rid of it?  If so... how?  I know if anyone knows where to even begin it would be someone here lol...


http://www.ssa.gov/online/ssa-521.pdf    request to withdraw application. simple enough

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## zephyrus23

I have two children and both of them have passports WITHOUT a SSN. They just try to scare you and say you COULD be charged a fee of $500, but ive never heard them actually collect it. I hate the fact they try to slap a welfare number on children right when they are born. I think depending on where you live the easier it is to get out of the hospital without having to sign up. I didnt have any problems.

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## zephyrus23

Also there is a book called dulocracy in America on amazon. It was written by a group back in the 90s called NONE -National Organization for the Non-Enumerated. There big push was to inform people about how we are pretty much slaves to the feds because of the number and how they can take everything you have and not give you a cent.

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## mrsat_98

> Since SSA refuses to delete files of dormant SSNs, and will not reissue the #, it will always be "yours," in a sense -- always just sitting there, waiting for you to reactivate it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowen_v._Roy

By a plurality decision, it was remanded back to the Federal District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, for a hearing on whether the government complied with the Privacy Act in issuing and using a Social Security number. It was eventually settled with the plaintiffs and government agreeing that all records and data in all its computers containing a social security number for Little Bird of the Snow Roy were to be eradicated or erased.

If you read the cases that lead up to this Bowen vs Roy you will find it revolved around English Gematria and SS NUMBER adds to 666 in that interesting development.

http://landmarkbiblebaptist.net/666-888.html

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## kathy88

> You can't fly with a birth certificate. International flights always require a passport. You used to be able to cross the border on foot/by car with just a just certificate. You can't anymore. You can still cross if you have a Real ID compliant state ID/enhanced drivers license, but only to Canada and only by car/foot/boat. 
> 
> 
> Edit: REAL ID compliant ID's and drivers licenses require a SSN
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore, for all international travel a Social Security number is needed. You need one to get a passport, passport card or REAL ID compliant ID or Enhanced DL


My friend's 4 children do NOT have SS#s and he was able to get them passports. It was five or six trips to the courthouse and numerous arguments with the woman who doled them out but he won. He had signed affidavits from the doctor who delivered them.

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## tommyrp12

This is for my state. Form R-101, @mass.gov. Don't witness the BC and if you have not figured out title 12 sec.411 . Don't use FRN's for business transactions. Outside the FED system's private credit you have the choice to use real money and contract on your own behalf. Keep your own records of these events and all business transactions. 

Rule 803. Exceptions to the Rule Against Hearsay 



> (6) Records of a Regularly Conducted Activity. A record of an act, event, condition, opinion, or diagnosis if:
> 
> (A) the record was made at or near the time by  or from information transmitted by  someone with knowledge;
> 
> *(B) the record was kept in the course of a regularly conducted activity of a business, organization, occupation, or calling, whether or not for profit;*
> 
> *(C) making the record was a regular practice of that activity;*
> 
> (D) all these conditions are shown by the testimony of the custodian or another qualified witness, or by a certification that complies with Rule 902(11) or (12) or with a statute permitting certification; and
> ...







 The Commonwealth of Massachusetts
 Executive Office of Health and Human Services
 Department of Public Health
 Registry of Vital Records and Statistics

 INFORMANT SIGNATURE
 STATUTORY AUTHORITY:

 "Chapter 46: Section 3A. Hospital administrator's duties; report; verification.
 Section 3A.... Such copies shall be signed or otherwise verified by the mother in a manner developed pursuant to regulations promulgated pursuant to section 4 of chapter 17, or, if she is not able, then by the father or other responsible adult, attesting to the truth and accuracy of the facts appearing in the report. Such copies shall also be signed or otherwise verified, in a manner specified under regulations promulgated pursuant to section 4 of chapter 17, by the physician, certified nurse midwife or hospital medical officer in charge of such birth or by an administrator designated by the hospital as overseeing birth registration." 

 POLICY IN BRIEF
 Whenever possible, the Standard Certificate of Live Birth should be fully completed at the hospital or birthing center. Birth records should rarely be left pending for the sole reason of a missing informant signature. In many cases, a registered record can be amended to correct true errors; but, if left unregistered, the record may become a "Delayed Record of Birth" causing the newborn lifetime problems with his or her birth certificate. 

 In most cases, the mother is the person who will be available to verify the record. 

 Informants should be provided with a ball-point black ink pen and instructed to bear down so that all three copies of the birth certificate show a visible signature.

 Use of the RVRS-provided "Parent Worksheet for Birth Certificates" is encouraged as it provides evidence of parent information for non-parental informants.

 RECOMMENDATIONS FOR COMMON SITUATIONS
 If a situation falls outside of those listed below, call the Registry of Vital Records and Statistics (RVRS) (617) 740-2605 or -2623 for further instructions. Hospitals and City/Town Clerks may also contact RVRS regarding informant signatures at vital.guideline@state.ma.us.

 Parents Married/ Mother's Current Last Name/ Father's Current Last Name/ and Child's Last Name are All the Same

 A signature shall be procured consistent with the following priorities:

 1.'Mother' or both 'Parents' are the preferred informant(s). 
 2.If mother is not available, then 'Father' is the next preferred informant. 
 3.If mother and father are not available, then the hospital administrator in charge of the birth registration unit is the next preferred informant.

 Birth certificate preparers should make a reasonable effort to obtain a parent signature within 10 days of the birth. When a hospital administrator signs as informant, it is recommended that a notation be filed with the child's medical record, or other filing system, that indicates the reason why a parent signature could not be obtained.

 Parents Married/ Mother's Current Last Name/ Father's Current Last Name/ and Child's Last Name are Not All the Same (including hyphenated, mother retains maiden name, etc.)

 A signature shall be procured consistent with the following priorities:

 1.Both 'Parents' are the preferred informant. 
 2.If both parents are not available, then 'Mother' is the next preferred informant. 
 3.If mother is not available, then 'Father' is the next preferred informant. 
 4.If mother and father are not available, then the hospital administrator in charge of the birth registration unit is the next preferred informant.

 Birth certificate preparers should make a reasonable effort to obtain both parents' signatures within 10 days of the birth. If this is not possible, one parent signature should be obtained. If neither parent signature can be obtained within 10 days of the birth, and no accommodation can be made to obtain the signatures within a reasonable extension, then a hospital administrator should sign the record as informant. It is recommended that documentation should remain with the child's medical record, or other filing system, that shows that the child's name, and other certificate information, is as the parent(s) intended (e.g., Parent Worksheet for Birth Certificates) and why a parent signature could not be obtained. One reason that both parent signatures is desirable (but not required) is to avoid complications later when one or the other parent objects to the last name of the child and tries to correct it.

 Mother Not Married/ No Father Listed/ Mother's Current Last Name and Child's Last Name are All the Same

 A signature shall be procured consistent with the following priorities:

 1.'Mother' is the preferred informant. 
 2.If mother is not available, then the hospital administrator in charge of the birth registration unit is the next preferred informant.

 Birth certificate preparers should make a reasonable effort to obtain a mother's signature within 10 days of the birth. When a hospital administrator signs as informant, it is recommended that a notation be filed with the child's medical record, or other filing system, that indicates the reason a mother's signature could not be obtained.

 Parents Not Married/ Acknowledgment of Parentage (and Affidavit of Non-Paternity, if appropriate)

 A signature shall be procured consistent with the following priorities:

 1.Both 'Parents' are the preferred informant. 
 2.If both parents are not available, then 'Mother' is the next preferred informant. 
 3.If mother is not available, then 'Father' is the next preferred informant. 
 4.If mother and father are not available, then the hospital administrator in charge of the birth registration unit is the next preferred informant.

 Two signatures are required for the Acknowledgment (and Affidavit) form(s). In most cases the birth certificate should be prepared and signed at the same time. Parents must use the same signature, when signing as informant, that is used on the Acknowledgment and Non-Paternity forms. If both parents are not available (as when the acknowledgment/ affidavit is sent out of facility to obtain a signature), one parent's signature should be obtained. If acknowledgments/affidavits are correctly completed, but neither parent's signature can be obtained within 10 days of the birth, and no accommodation can be made to obtain the signatures within a reasonable extension, then a hospital administrator should sign the record as informant. It is recommended that documentation should remain with the child's medical record, or other filing system, that indicates the reason why a parent signature could not be obtained on the birth certificate. Notarized signatures on the Acknowledgment are sufficient to show that the name of the child, and other certificate information, is as the parents intended. 

 Illegible Signatures or Signatures that Do Not Match Names

 Informants should sign with their usual signature (as used to sign legal documents, bank checks, and driver's licenses, for example). Although, notarization is not necessary on the informant signature, verification of signature should be requested in cases where the signature is illegible and/or does not appear to match the name on the certificate. 

 If the signature is illegible, and does not look like the name that appears on the birth certificate, then the birth certificate preparer should verify in the margin of the birth certificate that the signature is that of the mother/father/informant. A notation should appear in the margin of the birth certificate stating "Witnessed By:" with the name and title of the preparer. 

 If the signature is legible, but does not match the current last name on the birth certificate, the birth certificate preparer should inquire as to whether the listed current name is correct. The information about the mother and father on the birth certificate should reflect the name that the mother/father currently and commonly uses on other current forms of identification. Create a new birth certificate if the current names are not correct. Minor variations in name, such as 'Smith-Jones' on the record and 'Smith' on the signature are not reasons to reject a signature, if the preparer verifies that the names are correct, and the signature is that which is commonly used by the informant.

 If neither parent can sign because of illiteracy, a mark (e.g., "X") is acceptable if the notation appears in the margin "Witnessed By:" with the name and title of the preparer.

 If the contains non-Roman characters (e.g., Chinese or Cyrillic), ask the parent(s) if they have an English-language signature. If not, a notation should appear in the margin "Witnessed By:" with the name and title of the preparer. If so, the parent(s) should sign in both languages.

 "Other" Informants

 Other "responsible adults," not included in the priority lists detailed above, that may appear as informant on the birth certificate without prior approval by RVRS include:

 Director of Medical Records
 Hospital President or CEO

 Other non-parent custodial signatures (such as by DSS), are not advised. To provide the newborn with a certificate that looks "normal," even if an adoption or other court action is anticipated, a hospital administrator signature is preferred. 

 In special situations, such as with deceased parents, close relatives (e.g., mother's parents or sibling) would be acceptable.

*Note: Newborn SSN Request may not be Processed if neither Parent is Informant

If the informant is other than the mother or the father, then RVRS may not process a request for a newborn social security card. If neither parent is available to sign, select "No" for "Social Security Card." SSN requests must be initialed on the margin of the record by the mother or by the father (if he is the informant).*

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## thoughtomator

You need a "number of the Beast" to do business in America, just like the prophecy said. Whether that's a SSN or a tax ID, you will get a unique identifier assigned to you if you wish to do anything at all in the above-ground economy, including things as basic as opening a bank account.

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