# News & Current Events > World News & Affairs >  Japanese nuclear plant may only have a few hours....

## Fox McCloud

Before some of their plants meltdown:




> NEW YORK - Japanese officials may only have hours to cool reactors that have been disabled by Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami or face a nuclear meltdown.
> 
> Tokyo Electric Power Co is racing to cool down the reactor core after a highly unusual "station blackout"  the total loss of power necessary to keep water circulating through the plant to prevent overheating.
> 
> Daiichi Units 1, 2 and 3 reactors shut down automatically at 2:46 p.m. local time due to the earthquake. But about an hour later, the on-site diesel back-up generators also shut, leaving the reactors without alternating current (AC) power.


source: http://www.globalmontreal.com/world/...959/story.html

let's hope they get it under control...a meltdown could, I'm guessing, cause grid problems for Japan...not to mention if it breaches the walls, it'll pollute the area for decades.

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## Anti Federalist

> let's hope they get it under control...a meltdown could, I'm guessing, cause grid problems for Japan...not to mention if it breaches the walls, it'll pollute the area for decades.


A total loss of coolant failure incident coupled with a containment vessel breach (a worse case scenario) would, under the current state of confusion and infrastructure breakdown, kill tens of thousands.

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## silverhandorder

I thought we got back up generators from our army base to the reactor?

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## MozoVote

So.... Will Intrade put an "Odds of Nuclear Meltdown in Japan" contract up?

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## ihsv

I wouldn't worry about it.  Hillary said the AF is flying coolant over

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## KramerDSP

Saw this tweet from 4 minutes ago. Hope it's not true.

@nat_en Looks like Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant's situation deteriorating. Now fuel rod is exposed over the water < very bad news

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## ihsv

> Saw this tweet from 4 minutes ago. Hope it's not true.
> 
> @nat_en Looks like Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant's situation deteriorating. Now fuel rod is exposed over the water < very bad news


Whoa... not good

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## KramerDSP

JesseJenkins JesseJenkins 
RT @touruma: Fuel rod was exposed 90cm above water inside reactor core at 11:40AM. Now water 4 fire-fighting injected @ Fukushima No. 1 NP

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## KramerDSP

I'm keeping track through http://twitter.com/#!/search/Fukushima

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## Anti Federalist

Run!




> From eyewitness accounts of the firefighters involved before they died (as reported on the CBC television series Witness), one described his experience of the radiation as "tasting like metal," and feeling a sensation similar to that of pins and needles all over his face. (This is similar to the description given by Louis Slotin, a Manhattan Project physicist who died days after a fatal radiation overdose from a criticality accident.)[39]

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## Fox McCloud

> A total loss of coolant failure incident coupled with a containment vessel breach (a worse case scenario) would, under the current state of confusion and infrastructure breakdown, kill tens of thousands.


OF course; if it stays contained, however, it'll just be an electrical disaster and not an environmental one...thankfully.

I hope neither happens, of course, but if one _has_ to happen, I'd prefer it just meltdown and be contained.




> So.... Will Intrade put an "Odds of Nuclear Meltdown in Japan" contract up?


I was hoping for this too; while it may seem "callous" usually, for whatever reason, intrade gets it right on a lot of stuff---it could be very useful in determining course of action (incidentally, they once wanted to do one on when the next terrorist attack would be, but the government shut them down on this project...despite the site's predictive ability i the past).

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## KramerDSP

More from the Al Jazeera English Blog:

.Live blog: Japan earthquake
Live blog: Japan earthquake
By Al Jazeera Staff in  Asia
 on March 11th, 2011. 


Houses in Iwaki lie flattened after a huge earthquake hit Japan, triggering a devastating 10m tsunami [Picture: Reuters]
Show oldest updates on top
(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

Timestamp: 
1:52pm Scientists are warning that Japan may be facing a nuclear disaster on the scale of Chernobyl.




> More on Japan's atomic emergency from Edwin Lyman, a nuclear expert for the Global Security Programme at the Union of Concerned Scientists:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				The events that occurred at these plants, which is the loss of both offsite power and onsite power, is one of the rarest events to happen in a nuclear power plant, and all indications are that the Japanese do not have the situation under control.
> 			
> ...


.

The same guy also said aftershocks would last for 5 years, give or take.

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## ihsv

$#!+

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## Fox McCloud

Plant has a confirmed leak: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0110312x3.html

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## Anti Federalist

> OF course; if it stays contained, however, it'll just be an electrical disaster and not an environmental one...thankfully.
> 
> I hope neither happens, of course, but if one _has_ to happen, I'd prefer it just meltdown and be contained.


With any luck neither will happen and they'll be able to get some power to the high pressure feed pumps and cool the pile down again.

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## ihsv

rlnicholson2 RT @reuters: FLASH: About 20,000 people are being evacuated from the vicinity of Fukushima plant - Kyodo

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## Fox McCloud

> rlnicholson2 RT @reuters: FLASH: About 20,000 people are being evacuated from the vicinity of Fukushima plant - Kyodo


this is up from the 6,000 that were evacuated earlier, IIRC.

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## Anti Federalist

EDNewsfirst: RT @tokyoreporter: TBS reporter on ground in Iwaki, Fukushima: "Whole city gone."

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## ihsv

mickflipp RT @kaAYAaya: My cousin is in Fukushima. They onlybhave noodles at home and all stores are closed. Staying in the basement as there's radiation leak.

Comment:  Just to punctuate the need for preparedness... particularly if you live near a nuke plant

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## ihsv

JRNHeadlines Meltdown has begun at #fukushima

RodrigoEBR Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown - Kyodo

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## Fox McCloud

Russia Today is reporting that the 1st attempt to avoid meltdown failed as they encountered a radiation leak.

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## AGRP

RT @Reuters: FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji

Reports coming in: cesium detected around the nuclear reactor 1 (Fukushima), which is one of the elements that gets released in a meltdown

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## ihsv

Sounds like it's going

RT @JAPANTIMES: Core of Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing meltdown (Kyodo)

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## Fox McCloud

sounds like it's all over: "Cs (cesium) emission has been detected at Fukushima #1 outside implying the beginning of melt down. NSIC, TVnews"

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## KramerDSP

Damn. This is scary as $#@!. Educate me. If a meltdown happens, will the containment shelter be able to contain it ?

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## ihsv

Crap... as if they haven't had their share of nuke disasters.

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## Fox McCloud

NHK is announcing that the plant is melting down....

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## KramerDSP

Touruma Shu Uechi 
by _nat_en
#Nuclear plant safety committee detected cesium, a substance that is not normally detected unless, according to an expert, fuel rod melts.

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## angelatc



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## ihsv

RT @dicklp: Nuclear expert tells The Times: meltdown has technically begun at Fukushima.

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## hugolp

> Touruma Shu Uechi 
> by _nat_en
> #Nuclear plant safety committee detected cesium, a substance that is not normally detected unless, according to an expert, fuel rod melts.


So anyone here knows how long can it take and what could be the consequences?

$#@! and I though it would be nothing and the press was hyping it.

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## wd4freedom

> Damn. This is scary as $#@!. Educate me. If a meltdown happens, will the containment shelter be able to contain it ?


If the fuel breaches and melts, fission products will be released and containment may in fact keep most fission products within the structure.  However if the fuel melts and configures itself into a "molten pool" of enriched uranium, it may in fact go critical again creating a new self sustaining reaction.  This is the scenario we should all pray does not happen...all bets are off.

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## Fox McCloud

No idea...but if it is melting down, it's a matter of "will it hold?"--if the containment dome blows, it's all over---which could cause issues at the _other_ plants as it would be difficult to enter the area without...well...dying.

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## ihsv

Zoiks!

RT @dicklp: 4 other Fukushima nuke reactors are struggling with similar problem. If multiple meltdown begins, will be uncontrollable.

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## angelatc

> RT @dicklp: Nuclear expert tells The Times: meltdown has technically begun at Fukushima.


Nice find.  I like this one from 13 hours ago: 


> Fukushima nuclear plant under control: government spokesman

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## hugolp

> No idea...but if it is melting down, it's a matter of "will it hold?"--if the containment dome blows, it's all over---which could cause issues at the _other_ plants as it would be difficult to enter the area without...well...dying.


I feel like I dont want to believe it. How big would be the area affected? I know there would be radiation clouds all over the place, but the "Chernobyl style area" where no one can enter how big would it be?

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## Vessol

Great, I get home from work and the first thing I hear is that the entire Pacific basin is about to experience Chernobyl 2.0

Update 3/12 12:19 AM: This just came from Reuters on twitter... REUTERS FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji

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## Fox McCloud

> I feel like I dont want to believe it. How big would be the area affected? I know there would be radiation clouds all over the place, but the "Chernobyl style area" where no one can enter how big would it be?


I have no idea...depends on the winds...if it's a leak or an explosion...and what not...I really have no idea how big the area affected would be, but if it DOES completely blow/meltdown, then it would be a case like Chernobyl, I imagine.

If it does happen, it'll probably be the final nail in the coffin for nuclear power, sadly.

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## ClayTrainor



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## ihsv

Via Twitter:  David_Escalante So nuclear meltdown imminent at Fukushima nuke plant, yet all major cable news outlets are replaying earlier shows!? #newsfail

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## KramerDSP

> Via Twitter:  David_Escalante So nuclear meltdown imminent at Fukushima nuke plant, yet all major cable news outlets are replaying earlier shows!? #newsfail


+1

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## Fox McCloud

I'd also like to point out there are multiple reactors and plants that are going haywire; it's only #1 that's being reported on right now; #2 is also highly unstable....apparently, they've managed to stop #3.

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## UtahApocalypse

No sleep tonight.....

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## hugolp

> I have no idea...depends on the winds...if it's a leak or an explosion...and what not...I really have no idea how big the area affected would be, but if it DOES completely blow/meltdown, then it would be a case like Chernobyl, I imagine.
> 
> If it does happen, it'll probably be the final nail in the coffin for nuclear power, sadly.


Thanks.

Im reading all this, but still dont want to believe it is really happening.

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## AGRP

> Via Twitter:  David_Escalante So nuclear meltdown imminent at Fukushima nuke plant, yet all major cable news outlets are replaying earlier shows!? #newsfail


Yeah. 

MSM is busy talking about the quake and of course, FOX is busy promoting no-fly zones.

FOX has just mentioned a "possible" meltdown.

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## Southron

I guess soon we will find out how good their containment is.

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## Baptist

/runs for the hills.

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## Anti Federalist

> I feel like I dont want to believe it. How big would be the area affected? I know there would be radiation clouds all over the place, but the "Chernobyl style area" where no one can enter how big would it be?

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## ihsv

> Yeah. 
> 
> MSM is busy talking about the quake and of course, FOX is busy promoting no-fly zones.
> 
> FOX has just mentioned a "possible" meltdown.


MSNBC just picked up on it on their site

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## hugolp

http://twitter.com/W7VOA/statuses/46445837869522945




> AP quotes experts saying if nuke meltdown, risk zone is 6km radius.

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## HOLLYWOOD

> I guess soon we will find out how good their containment is.


#1 reactor that's in meltdown is the oldest, built in 1971.

All reactors are built on the northeast coast for a reason... away from populations and trade winds will carry fallout to the east over the PACIFIC to US.

I have checked on the distant to Misawa A.B. north up the coast from Daiichi/Daiini are on the evac list.

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## Fox McCloud

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...353222667.html 

Al Jazera's take on it.

Supposedly if it's "handled carefully" and vented "properly" there isn't a "chance" of an explosion and the leak would be contained to a 3km radius.

We'll see how it turns out; hopefully that's correct.

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## Matt Collins

> I feel like I dont want to believe it. How big would be the area affected? I know there would be radiation clouds all over the place, but the "Chernobyl style area" where no one can enter how big would it be?

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## UtahApocalypse

I cannot attest too, or verify this image..... scary thought though

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## Matt Collins

> I cannot attest too, or verify this image..... scary thought though


Where did you get it from?

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## Anti Federalist

> I cannot attest too, or verify this image..... scary thought though


FWIW, Australian Radiation Services is a private company specializing in radioactive risk management in medicine and industry

http://www.australian-radiation-services.com.au/

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## ihsv

RT @posiczko: TEPCO now reports that situation @Fukushima is stabilizing with water being pumped back in. They don't believe core melted down. #jpqua

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## Fox McCloud

now it's back to conflicting reports.

TEPCO is saying its stabilizing with water being pumped back in, while a few others are indicating that the structure is damaged and will make cooling it unlikely/difficult.

NHK is now saying that there's a "minor meltdown", but it is nothing to worry about and manageable.

So yeah, yay for uncertainty.

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## Fox McCloud

<accidental double post>

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## ClayTrainor

> RT @posiczko: TEPCO now reports that situation @Fukushima is stabilizing with water being pumped back in. They don't believe core melted down. #jpqua


I really hope this is true!

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## Vessol

> I really hope this is true!


Same. But there was similar optimistic reports earlier today that proved false.

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## Immortal Technique

http://twitter.com/#!/search/Fukushima

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## Tinnuhana

News I've been watching has a big helicopter over the reactor lowering something in. Still over 800 people missing and the body count is rising. If any radiation makes it to PRK, their dictator could do something stupid to retaliate against Japan. Final report on our tsunami here: 20-22 cm (less than a foot).
Godzilla is extremely pertinent; but if a movie is made, the monster causing all this devastation will be defeated by Godzilla, saving Japan and the world.

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## ihsv

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia...pan-earthquake

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## Vessol

Ever since the events in Egypt, I've been checking up on Al Jeezera a lot, they've been really great in their coverage of multiple events-unlike American news agencies.

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## Anti Federalist

*Japan authorities: TEPCO plant fuel rods may have melted -Jiji*

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...00707420110312

March 12 | Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:38am EST 

March 12 (Reuters) - Japanese nuclear authorities said that there was a high possibility that nuclear fuel rods at a reactor at Tokyo Electric Power's Daiichi plant may be melting or have melted, Jiji news agency reported. 

Experts have said that if the fuel rods have been damaged, it means that it could develop into a breach of the nuclear reactor vessel and the question then becomes one of how strong the containment structure around the vessel is and whether it has been undermined by the earthquake.

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## Tinnuhana

BBC is reporting that Fukushima Prefecture is being evacuated but they're not sure if a meltdown occured. Cell phone companies are giving free calls to help out. The GOJ now says probably more than 1000 deaths. There are two plants with big problems. This according to BBC and their sources (except the phone deal, which I saw on TV).

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## Vessol

Hopefully the containment structure will be able to help..

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## angelatc

Plant #2 also failing?: http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/76962.html

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## Fox McCloud

> Plant #2 also failing?: http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/76962.html


yup; it just wasn't in quite as bad shape, initially, than the first one....though I think it's core #2 and not plant #2.

reactor #3 at plant #2 was apparently shut down....supposedly.

Who knows--we probably won't know the full details until (1)something really bad happens (2)tomorrow.

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## Matt Collins

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219

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## Anti Federalist

Who to believe?


Scientist warns of "Chernobyl-like" disaster (1:57) 

http://www.reuters.com/article/video...eoId=194714199

Or:

"No Chernobyl is possible at a light water reactor. Loss of coolant means a temperature rise, but it also will stop the reaction," Naoto Sekimura, a professor at the University of Tokyo, said.

"Even in the worst-case scenario, that would mean some radioactive leakage and equipment damage, but not an explosion. If venting is done carefully, there will be little leakage. Certainly not beyond the 3 km radius."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72A0SS20110312

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## angelatc

BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

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## HOLLYWOOD

here live feed... it cycles between Japanese and English:  http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/6810.htm

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## Fox McCloud

Hopefully accurate: "BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency - Kyodo"

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## Vessol

What does pressure have to do with it?

I'm really fairly uniformed of this stuff.

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## angelatc

> yup; it just wasn't in quite as bad shape, initially, than the first one....though I think it's core #2 and not plant #2.
> 
> reactor #3 at plant #2 was apparently shut down....supposedly.
> 
> Who knows--we probably won't know the full details until (1)something really bad happens (2)tomorrow.


The article says plant 2.

The cooling system failed at three reactors of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 2 nuclear power plant Saturday, the operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

The company, which has already scrambled to deal with radiation leaks at its Fukushima No. 1 plant, notified the industry ministry that the failsafe system at the No. 2 plant stopped functioning as the temperature of coolant water has topped 100 C.

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## AGRP

I hope they're video recording what's going on in their command center.  

Id love to see it.

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## Anti Federalist

*Factbox: What happens when a reactor loses coolant*

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...1?pageNumber=1

(Reuters) - Several nuclear power reactors in Japan shut as designed following the massive earthquake off the nation's northwest coast, but the failure of a back-up power generator at one unit risks a radioactive leak.

Operators at Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) are still working to control the situation at one of their plants.

Tepco said at about 2:46 p.m. local time Units 1, 2 and 3 at its Fukushima Daiichi plant -- three of six at the plant -- shut following the earthquake. All are boiling water reactors.

Tepco said the reactors shut due to the loss of offsite power due to the malfunction of one of two off-site power systems. That triggered the emergency diesel generators to startup and provide backup power for plant systems.

About an hour after the plant shut down, however, the emergency diesel generators stopped, leaving Units 1, 2 and 3 with no power for important cooling functions.

Nuclear plants need power to operate motors, valves and instruments that control the systems that provide cooling water to the radioactive core.

Tepco declared an emergency and the government ordered thousands to evacuate the area, while engineers worked to restore power. The company is bringing in mobile generators to restore the power supply, but pressure inside the containment of Unit 1 continued to increase.

Early on Saturday Tepco said it had lost the ability to control pressure at the No. 1 and 2 reactors.

-----------------------------------------------------

NORMAL OPERATIONS

* In a reactor operating normally, pumps circulate water through the reactor core to keep the rods from overheating. The temperature inside a reactor operating normally is about 550 degrees F (285 C).

See www.nrc.gov/reactors/bwrs.html on the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission site for diagrams on how water moves through a boiling water reactor operating normally.

ORDERLY SHUT DOWN

* When a reactor shuts, pumps continue to move water over the fuel rods. The electricity to run the pumps usually comes from off-site power supplies brought in by transmission lines.

But, if the power lines fail, the plants have redundant on-site power sources, including backup diesel generators and batteries.

BLACK-OUT

 When all sources of power fail like at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, coolant begins to boil off, exposing the fuel rods. It would likely take several hours to boil off enough coolant before the core is hot enough to damage it.

If the fuel rods became damaged they would release radioactive material into the remaining coolant.

- Hours beyond that the metal surrounding the ceramic

uranium fuel pellets could potentially start

melting if temperatures reach well beyond 1000 F as

occurred at Three Mile Island. The ceramic fuel

pellets would not melt until temperatures reached

about 2000 degrees F.

- Hours after the fuel rods started to melt, the heat

could potentially melt through the reactor vessel,

which is made of high tensile steel four to eight

inches thick

- It would take even more time before the containment

fails, which could result in radioactive releases

to the environment. The containment is an air tight

steel or reinforced concrete structure with walls

between four to eight feet thick.

As the Three Mile Island accident showed, operators can regain control of the situation if they can get the coolant flowing again.

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## Anti Federalist

> What does pressure have to do with it?
> 
> I'm really fairly uniformed of this stuff.


A boiling water reactor works at temperatures and pressures similar to a normal steam boiler, 500-600 degrees and probably about 1200 PSI.

Now, in a closed loop, single system like a BWR, the steam is condensed back to water, it cannot be released because it's radioactive.

The feed pumps to pump the water back into the system or add water must be able to pump at a pressure greater than the normal operating boiler pressure.

If the pressure in the steam loop rises higher than what the feed pump can pump against, you cannot get any more water into the system.

Thus you start losing cooling water, which makes the problem worse by increasing the pressure as more water flashes off to steam.

I'd say it's very similar to a crown sheet failure/boiler explosion that happened to steam locomotives from time to time.

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## Matt Collins

> Who to believe?


Well two things are for sure,

1- You can't trust the government
2- You can't trust the mainstream media

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## Anti Federalist

> Well two things are for sure,
> 
> 1- You can't trust the government
> 2- You can't trust the mainstream media


Can't argue with that.

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## squarepusher

$#@! exploded

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## Vessol

#
5:03pm

Several workers have reportedly been injured in the blast at the nuclear plant.
#
Timestamp: 
4:59pm

 An explosion has been heard and smoke was seen at Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant, Jiji news agency quotes police as saying.
#
Timestamp: 
4:57pm

AFP reports that Japan TV footage shows smoke billowing from Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant and that radioactivity there is 20 times normal level.

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## devil21

> http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...353222667.html 
> 
> Al Jazera's take on it.
> 
> Supposedly if it's "handled carefully" and vented "properly" there isn't a "chance" of an explosion and the leak would be contained to a 3km radius.
> 
> We'll see how it turns out; hopefully that's correct.


Nope. No explosion.....except the one CNN just reported at that same power plant.

Will a government of _any_ country ever tell the truth??

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## Vessol

A ton of marines arrived from Okinawa a month early where I live, they were flown back ASAP. Not sure why, one of them was my co-workers husband.

Edit: Why no explosion? I'm hearing reports of explosion, do you have a source that goes against this?

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## daviddee

...

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## dannno

o my.

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## Fox McCloud

> It officially has exploded.
> 
> Walls and roof gone.


So much for containment =<

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## Dave Aiello

this is nuts .. and something else that anti-nuclear power people can pull out of their pockets to justify a ban.

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## crazyfacedjenkins

> It officially has exploded.
> 
> Walls and roof gone.


source

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## Fox McCloud

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156...ws-asiapacific source for "walls and roof gone"

It's not totally apparent to what extent its damaged containment yet, it seems.

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## Southron

Radiation leaks reported all over twitter FWIW.

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## Andrew-Austin

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video...ar.worries.cnn

video of some nuclear policy expert being interviewed. link also mentions an explosion. radioactive "cesium" detected in air near plant one, melting of a fuel rod may have caused this leak.

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## crazyfacedjenkins

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156...ws-asiapacific source for "walls and roof gone"
> 
> It's not totally apparent to what extent its damaged containment yet, it seems.


"The walls of a building at a nuclear power station crumbled Saturday following an explosion only hours after Japanese officials said they feared the reactor could melt down.

Smoke poured out of Fukushima Daiichi nuclear facility where authorities had warned Friday of a failure of its cooling system resulting from a powerful earthquake and tsunami.

*It was not clear if the damaged building housed the reactor.* "

Note the use of indefinite article "a building"

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## JoshLowry

Vid of explosion? 46 seconds.

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## Matt Collins

CNN has it:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T1

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## Matt Collins

> Will a government of _any_ country ever tell the truth??


No, government always seeks it's own end.

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## Matt Collins

> this is nuts .. and something else that anti-nuclear power people can pull out of their pockets to justify a ban.


I'm all up for a ban on nuclear reactors in earthquake, hurricane, tornado zones etc.

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## Dave Aiello

lol look at us all doubting the media..

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## Matt Collins

> Vid of explosion? 46 seconds.


Holy $#@!!!!

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## blocks

> Vid of explosion? 46 seconds.


That is reactor #1, so I assume that is the video.


The question remains as to whether that explosion compromised all containment structures.

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## Matt Collins

> A ton of marines arrived from Okinawa a month early where I live, they were flown back ASAP. Not sure why, one of them was my co-workers husband.


Well at this point due to the jetstream I think there is a risk that this particular incident may be a threat to the mainland US.

If our government can offer any assistance to the Japanese government I wouldn't have a problem with Obama ordering whatever resources into the area to attempt to contain any potential nuclear fall out. That would fall under defense of the US.

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## Fox McCloud

Apparently, at the press conference...they're questioning if the new 10km evacuation radius is good enough or not (they seem convinced it is) and that the plant has leaked radioactive material---they just don't know how much yet.

NHK is recommending people stay indoors, shut windows, wear long clothing, and to cover your mouth.

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## Dave Aiello

> Well at this point due to the jetstream I think there is a risk that this particular incident may be a threat to the mainland US.
> 
> If our government can offer any assistance to the Japanese government I wouldn't have a problem with Obama ordering whatever resources into the area to attempt to contain any potential nuclear fall out. That would fall under defense of the US.


One of the rare times that a Paul administration would be justified in providing foreign 'aid'

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## Andrew-Austin

> Apparently, at the press conference...they're questioning if the new 10km evacuation radius is good enough or not (they seem convinced it is) and that the plant has leaked radioactive material---they just don't know how much yet.
> 
> NHK is recommending people stay indoors, shut windows, wear long clothing, and to cover your mouth.

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## Matt Collins

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T1

_An explosion has been reported at a nuclear plant in northeastern  Japan_'s Fukushima prefecture, Japanese public broadcaster NHK said  Saturday, citing the country's nuclear and industrial safety agency.      

 Earlier Saturday Japan's nuclear agency said workers were  continuing efforts to cool fuel rods at the  plant _after a small amount  of radioactive material escaped into the air._



The evacuations notwithstanding, the nuclear safety agency  asserted Saturday that the _radiation at the plants did not pose an  immediate threat to nearby residents' health_, the Kyodo News Agency  said.





In otherwords....





NOTHING TO SEE HERE, MOVE ALONG!

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## dannno

Ironic this happens in Japan.


Veeerrrry interesting read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll



Excerpts worth noting:





> Bikini Atoll (also known as Pikinni Atoll) is a World Heritage listed atoll in the Micronesian Islands of the Pacific Ocean, part of Republic of the Marshall Islands.
> 
> It consists of 23 islands surrounding a deep 229.4-square-mile (594.1 km2) central lagoon, at the northern end of the Ralik Chain (approximately 87 kilometres (54 mi) northwest of Ailinginae Atoll and 850 kilometres (530 mi) northwest of Majuro), now universally significant to the world[1] as follows:
> 
>     "Bikini Atoll has conserved direct tangible evidence .. conveying the power of .. nuclear tests, i.e. the sunken ships sent to the bottom of the lagoon by the tests in 1946 and the gigantic Bravo crater.... *Through its history, the atoll symbolises the dawn of the nuclear age, despite its paradoxical image of peace and of earthly paradise.*"
> 
> ...
> 
> *Humans have inhabited the atoll for at least 2,000 years.*[4] Bikini was visited by only a dozen or so ships before the establishment of the German colony of the Marshall Islands in 1885. Along with the rest of the Marshalls, *Bikini was captured by the Imperial Japanese Navy in 1914 during World War I and mandated to the Empire of Japan by the League of Nations in 1920. The Japanese administered the island under the South Pacific Mandate, but mostly left local affairs in hands of traditional local leaders until the start of World War II.
> ...

----------


## JoshLowry



----------


## Bman



----------


## blocks

> Ironic this happens in Japan.
> 
> 
> Veeerrrry interesting read.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpts worth noting:


There is a great doc about that test called "Radio Bikini"...If you have netflix, it's on instant stream. Highly recommended.

----------


## Matt Collins

If I lived anywhere west of Kansas, I'd be buying some iodine right about now.

----------


## Fox McCloud

Apparently the radiation level near the plant is at a level that 1 hour of exposure is equal to what you'd normally get exposed to in a year (ie: "annual dose").

----------


## Matt Collins

> Apparently the radiation level near the plant is at a level that 1 hour of exposure is equal to what you'd normally get exposed to in a year (ie: "annual dose").


 Please cite your source.

----------


## Fox McCloud

I've been going by the general "feel" of what a number of twitter users have been reporting, and this guy: http://twitter.com/TimeOutTokyo who's been translating a few points about the press conference.

it's not the best source in the world, but considering how crummy other news places have been at reporting this, and (this time) the "feel" form most of twitters users is generally accurate, I think it says a bit of something.

----------


## Fox McCloud

managed to dig it up on yahoo news India: http://in.news.yahoo.com/edano-confi...ear-plant.html

----------


## Matt Collins

> managed to dig it up on yahoo news India: http://in.news.yahoo.com/edano-confi...ear-plant.html


 Yeah BBC has it too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219


Not to make a bad joke, but this situation is going...err...uhh.. nuclear. This is not good.

----------


## Southron

> managed to dig it up on yahoo news India: http://in.news.yahoo.com/edano-confi...ear-plant.html


Wow.  So the exposure is actually greater than 1 year's worth.  If true it could be much higher.

----------


## Fox McCloud

and the yahoo article confirmed that the explosion damaged the building the reactor was housed in---so...who knows, at this point, if the containment is still viable.

----------


## Southron

> and the yahoo article confirmed that the explosion damaged the building the reactor was housed in---so...who knows, at this point, if the containment is still viable.


Japan finally confirming a leak per Fox.

----------


## fj45lvr

how long would it take for this stuff to reach the U.S. shore?

I live next to ocean on same parallel.   Hope it is several days and not under 2.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> how long would it take for this stuff to reach the U.S. shore?
> 
> I live next to ocean on same parallel.   Hope it is several days and not under 2.


I'd be more concerned if it melts down and explode than if it was just a leak. A leak, I'm guessing, would be fairly domestic; even if it blew out to the ocean, I'm going to guess it wouldn't make it far....the problem would likely be when the radioactive material gets spewed up into the air.

----------


## blocks

Evacuation radius has been increased from 10KM to 20-25KM...per Reuters

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

----------


## blocks

> how long would it take for this stuff to reach the U.S. shore?
> 
> I live next to ocean on same parallel.   Hope it is several days and not under 2.


I think it's about 10 days. I saw a map earlier, but lost the link.

----------


## fj45lvr

a map of current jet stream shows it is about 80 mph straight across the west.  

wonder what the distance is from there to west coast?

----------


## JoshLowry

> a map of current jet stream shows it is about 80 mph straight across the west.  
> 
> wonder what the distance is from there to west coast?


~5000 miles

----------


## blocks

[RPH Mod edit - This image is reportedly a 4ch. creation and not a particularly scientific analysis]




> a map of current jet stream shows it is about 80 mph straight across the west.  
> 
> wonder what the distance is from there to west coast?




I have no way of verifying this image, but it is the one I saw on twitter.

----------


## jclay2

Holy $#@!, this is getting serious.

So what is the worst case scenario for this nuclear reactor? Any one with a scientific background care to explain?

----------


## fj45lvr

at about 90 mph it is about 55 hours to reach west coast

----------


## Sola_Fide

Wow.  Is this serious or what?

----------


## BenIsForRon

I doubt that image is legit, it wasn't a nuclear bomb.

----------


## JoshLowry

Fallout prediction (assuming no jet streams).

Fallout prediction (with jet streams).

I don't know who made those, but they look like legit forecast models.

Not a lot is known at this point.

Governments have downplayed nuclear accidents in the past.

----------


## fj45lvr

here is a different look at jet stream and speeds https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...334892&theater

----------


## fj45lvr

this article has a ton of good info to digest on this or any other nuclear fallout heading West from Asia:

http://www.ki4u.com/illwind.htm

----------


## JoshLowry

This link has two streams playing.  Mute the vid on on the right.  

They have pretty decent footage and when something important is played on their news channel he translates it into english almost immediately.

http://www.ustwrap.info/multi/yokosonews::nhk-gtv

Prime minister press conference at 5:30am central.

----------


## american.swan

I'm in South Korea. This doesn't seem to be on the news. I guess Korea thinks the wins will send it west and not this way.

----------


## messana

How depressing.

----------


## 00_Pete

Explosion looks like something related with steam or some liquid under high pressure. Cooling system? The reactor-turbine steam system? Dificcult to tell. I hope the "hard" shutdown is on.

Either way those F*CKING nuclear things should have never existed, bombs or nuclear reactors. They are nothing but trouble.

----------


## tpreitzel

Messana,

OT =

Thankfully, those remarks are NOT representative of most Americans. Those remarks are representative of immature and indoctrinated individuals who haven't *yet* escaped their brainwashing. Pearl Harbor was ALL about creating global government, i.e. the UN, since it failed as a result of WW1 with the League of Nations....

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Messana,

where the $#@! did you get those comments????

what $#@!ing morons!

----------


## MRoCkEd

Eh, by aggregating social network comments, you can easily find a bunch of idiots. I'm sure that's a small minority.

But then again, I bet a lot of people would be cheering on some disaster in the Middle East saying the "terrorists" deserve it.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

I'm actually going to go out on a limb and say that that's NOT a small minority. A healthy 20% (or more) of the population would say something similar. You kind of referenced it with your terrorists observation. We have arguments and whatnot with each other on these forums, but we're generally a civil, affable group. We are more likely the small minority, not the pricks represented in that photocap.

There are a lot of jerks in the world. Never underestimate the stupidity of society.

----------


## blabam

> How depressing.


Just shows that an interventionist foreign policy doesn't work... People who get bombed don't forget that easily. Still these people are retarded.

----------


## Chieppa1

@BreakingNews: 6.4 magnitude aftershock hits near stricken Fukushima nuclear plant, USGS and local media report http://1.usa.gov/gn3hzy

----------


## Chieppa1

Fukushima nuclear plant does NOT have a combustible graphite core like Chernobyl. A total meltdown should flow into underground containment.

----------


## jtstellar

> Fukushima nuclear plant does NOT have a combustible graphite core like Chernobyl. A total meltdown should flow into underground containment.


well good news i guess.. i live in cali and don't want to evacuate

what's the good of that iodide thing anyway.. it only saves your thyroid.  what's the use when every other organ you have is failing.

----------


## FrankRep

*Quake moved Japan coast 8 feet; shifted Earth's axis four by nearly 4 inches* 

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T1

----------


## steph3n

> nuclear things should have never existed, bombs or nuclear reactors. They are nothing but trouble.


right....

----------


## Carson



----------


## Carson

> I cannot attest too, or verify this image..... scary thought though


Sounds about right according to the way the ballon bombs traveled during WWII.

http://web.mst.edu/~rogersda/forensi...ombs%20new.htm

----------


## specsaregood

> How depressing.


Indeed.

----------


## pcosmar

> *Quake moved Japan coast 8 feet; shifted Earth's axis four by nearly 4 inches* 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T1


*Question*
A shift in the earths axis has been predicted (and is apparently happening) Was it caused by the earthquakes? Or are the earthquakes the result of the earth shifting?

Which is the cause and which is the effect?

----------


## angelatc

> well good news i guess.. i live in cali and don't want to evacuate
> 
> what's the good of that iodide thing anyway.. it only saves your thyroid.  what's the use when every other organ you have is failing.


I'm not a doctor, but  my understanding is that if the radiation enters the thyroid, it spreads through the entire body.

----------


## One Last Battle!

> I'm not a doctor, but  my understanding is that if the radiation enters the thyroid, it spreads through the entire body.


Depends on the kind of radiation. Gamma radiation spreads through the whole body, beta radiation doesn't IIRC.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Fukushima nuclear plant does NOT have a combustible graphite core like Chernobyl. A total meltdown should flow into underground containment.


Oh yeah?



Anyone who cant see that is a explosion needs glasses

----------


## Carson

> I'm not a doctor, but  my understanding is that if the radiation enters the thyroid, it spreads through the entire body.


Here is a link to some articles on the topic.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/radiatio...id_Disease.htm

P.S. I think the basic idea of Potassium Iodide is that it fills up your body with Iodine and then when the radioactive iodine comes along your body doesn't absorb any more. Some of the byproducts of a nuclear reaction are Iodine-131 and Iodine-129

----------


## steph3n

> Oh yeah?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who cant see that is a explosion needs glasses


that explosion doesn't mean meltdown.

Now, it is VERY concerning the lack of news since that explosion!

----------


## specsaregood

> Originally Posted by Chieppa1
> 
> 
> Fukushima nuclear plant does NOT have a combustible graphite core like Chernobyl. A total meltdown should flow into underground containment.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah?
> 
> Anyone who cant see that is a explosion needs glasses


That doesn't dispute his comment.  Unless you can somehow prove that explosion was the core and a meltdown was not being contained.

----------


## 00_Pete

> Oh yeah?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who cant see that is a explosion needs glasses


Yeah. You can see a little "fire" in the explosion clearly indicating that it was a hydrogen explosion and not a steam thing after all. Yikes!!! Thats very bad.

From here: http://library.thinkquest.org/17940/...disasters.html

"During the day hydrogen gas began to accumulate inside the reactor and caused an explosion later in the afternoon. This explosion did not damage the containment systems, however. Two days later, the core was still not under operator control. A group of nuclear experts were asked to help evaluate the situation. They figured out that a lot of hydrogen gas had accumulated at the top of the core. This gas could have exploded, like the explosion on the first day of the accident, or it could have displaced the remaining coolant in the reactor, causing a complete nuclear reactor meltdown. No one really knew what to do about the hydrogen build-up. A hydrogen recombiner was used to remove some of the hydrogen, but it was not very effective. However, hydrogen also dissolves in water, which is what the coolant was composed of. Thus, over time the hydrogen that had collected at the top of the core completely dissolved in the coolant. Two weeks later the reactor was brought to a cold shutdown and the accident was over."

I beleive that the reactors in Three Mile Island were also built by GE.

----------


## angelatc

> Here is a link to some articles on the topic.
> 
> http://thyroid.about.com/od/radiatio...id_Disease.htm


Thanks! I also found this in an article:


> After the nuclear accident at Chernobyl, Lyman said there were over 6,000 cases of childhood thyroid cancers, and it was later determined if the children had taken stable iodine a few hours before being exposed to the radiation it would block the intake of the radioactive material in the thyroid. "That has been shown to reduce exposure significantly," he said.

----------


## Vessol

> that explosion doesn't mean meltdown.
> 
> Now, it is VERY concerning the lack of news since that explosion!


There was already proof of a meltdown occuring about 10 hours ago when they found Cs (cesium) emission.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> that explosion doesn't mean meltdown.
> 
> Now, it is VERY concerning the lack of news since that explosion!





> That doesn't dispute his comment.  Unless you can somehow prove that explosion was the core and a meltdown was not being contained.


Make your own mind up as what to do, think, and how to react. This is a plant that has been through a 9.1 earthquake, over 100 or more +5 aftershocks, very likely was flooded and hit by the Tsunami, and is in multiple system failures.....

ALL of these things were thought to "never" happen on this magnitude. The plant was made to withstand a 8 Earthquake. We are in a unprecedented situation. You cannot compare it to TMI or Chernobyl. Those were just failures of the systems. Here we easily could have damage, or at this point loss of containment. The Japan media is already trying to deny that it even was an explosion, clearly it was. 

How do you evacuate 100's of thousands, or millions of people? How much Iodine Potassium is available; worldwide? 

Answer those and then consider this: How would the government, and media prevent a global panic?

I'm flying my brother out to Michigan. I am getting ready to stay indoors the next 2 weeks after today. I am prepared? are you? It may end up not being a worldwide catastrophe. Is your health life or that of your children worth the risk?

----------


## One Last Battle!

> Make your own mind up as what to do, think, and how to react. This is a plant that has been through a 9.1 earthquake, over 100 or more +5 aftershocks, very likely was flooded and hit by the Tsunami, and is in multiple system failures.....
> 
> ALL of these things were thought to "never" happen on this magnitude. The plant was made to withstand a 8 Earthquake. We are in a unprecedented situation. You cannot compare it to TMI or Chernobyl. Those were just failures of the systems. Here we easily could have damage, or at this point loss of containment. The Japan media is already trying to deny that it even was an explosion, clearly it was. 
> 
> How do you evacuate 100's of thousands, or millions of people? How much Iodine Potassium is available; worldwide? 
> 
> Answer those and then consider this: How would the government, and media prevent a global panic?
> 
> I'm flying my brother out from Michigan. I am getting ready to stay indoors the next 2 weeks after today. I am prepared? are you? It may end up not being a worldwide catastrophe. Is your health life or that of your children worth the risk?


Even assuming a worst case scenario, the fallout wouldn't reach Michigan. It would be far too dispersed by the Chinooks in the midwest, as well as the Gulf Stream. It would probably stop somewhere around California or Nevada. 

Oh, and Potassium Iodide isn't rare by any means.

----------


## angelatc

> I cannot attest too, or verify this image..... scary thought though


http://www.solarstorms.org/Sradiation.html

For radiation exposure to really make you sick and die, you have to receive a lot of it in a short time. In terms of the Rad unit where 1 Rad of X-rays equalled 1000 millirem, we can estimate the various levels of sickness and death from different radiation dosages that are administered in a short period of time over the entire body (from an atomic bomb blast for example):

0-50 rads - No obvious short-term effects

80-120 rads - You have a 10% chance of vomiting and experiencing nausia for a few days

130 -170 rads - You have a 25% chance of vomiting and contracting other symptoms

180-220 rads - You have a 50% chance of vomiting and having other severe physical effects

270-330 rads - 20% chance of death in 6 weeks, or you will recover in a few months.

400-500 rads - 50% chance of death

550-750 rads - Nausia within a few hours ; no survivors

> 1000 rads - immediate incapacitation and death within a week or less.

----------


## stefank

from http://twitter.com/BBCNews



> #Japan's #nuclear agency rates accident at Fukushima plant at 'four' out of a possible seven on the international scale, from AFP


Chernobyl was a 7 three mile island a 5

----------


## NYgs23

> from http://twitter.com/BBCNews
> 
> Chernobyl was a 7 three mile island a 5


If that's the case, there shouldn't be too much alarm (so far). Three Mile Island had negligible effects.

----------


## nayjevin

'official' story:

1. under control
2. precautionary evacuations @ 3km, but no concerns
3. there is a leak, it's minor, nothing to see here
4. 'releasing pressure' will avoid catastrophe.  no health risks to worry about
5. oops upon further investigation 10km better evacuate
6. it's a 4 don't worry

next up:
7.  (2012) due to incompetence it was worse than we thought but it's over.
8.  (2020) declassified documents show 2011 Fukushima Incident riddled with highjinx

----------


## steph3n

> There was already proof of a meltdown occuring about 10 hours ago when they found Cs (cesium) emission.


That does not mean a containment failure however, but as said the building explosion didn't add any hope that it won't happen.

----------


## Carson

> If that's the case, there shouldn't be too much alarm (so far). Three Mile Island had negligible effects.


Did you factor in the half life of the lies?

----------


## kahless

What site - URL is that picture from?  Been looking for it to see the context which they are posting that.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Video shows what is left of one of the containment structures

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226020511954




> The operator of the nuclear plant said the container surrounding the reactor was not damaged despite the explosion.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226020511954
> 
> The operator of the nuclear plant said the container surrounding the reactor was not damaged despite the explosion.


So then what the hell blew up?

Just getting back up to speed on this.

----------


## 00_Pete

> I'm actually going to go out on a limb and say that that's NOT a small minority. A healthy 20% (or more) of the population would say something similar. You kind of referenced it with your terrorists observation. We have arguments and whatnot with each other on these forums, but we're generally a civil, affable group. We are more likely the small minority, not the pricks represented in that photocap.
> 
> There are a lot of jerks in the world. Never underestimate the stupidity of society.


The ugly truth is that many people who were pro-Iraq war, deep inside, realised that the whole "Saddam WMD´s" story was BS and they just wanted to go ahead because: a) Nationalist/Tribalist Viagra b) Wanting to see some ayyyrabs killed.

And that is the ugly truth. Many jerks out there.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> So then what the hell blew up?
> 
> Just getting back up to speed on this.


Well.... hard to tell... the linked post coupled with the previous you tube seems to imply that it was the exterior of the building that housed the containment structure itself...

----------


## TheState

> Well.... hard to tell... the linked post coupled with the previous you tube seems to imply that it was the exterior of the building that housed the containment structure itself...


Correct, BWR's have an outer concrete containment, but they also have an inner steel containment (which is inerted). The inner containment holds the reactor pressure vessel. 

The hydrogen that results from fuel melting was in the outer containment, not the inner, inert, containment. That is what caused the detonation.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.solarstorms.org/Sradiation.html
> 
> For radiation exposure to really make you sick and die, you have to receive a lot of it in a short time. In terms of the Rad unit where 1 Rad of X-rays equalled 1000 millirem, we can estimate the various levels of sickness and death from different radiation dosages that are administered in a short period of time over the entire body (from an atomic bomb blast for example):
> 
> 0-50 rads - No obvious short-term effects
> 
> 80-120 rads - You have a 10% chance of vomiting and experiencing nausia for a few days
> 
> 130 -170 rads - You have a 25% chance of vomiting and contracting other symptoms
> ...


Yah, I looked into some SI equivalents like Sievert units to check the conversion.

What this chart is depicting is that in the "red zone" death is a certainty within 24/48 hours.

Which is not likely.

----------


## Matt Collins

> How depressing.


It's not the time nor the place to go there right now .

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Added some timeline ARs in *BOLD*.



> 'official' story:
> 
> 1. under control
> 2. precautionary evacuations @ 3km, but no concerns
> 3. there is a leak, it's minor, nothing to see here
> 4. 'releasing pressure' will avoid catastrophe.  no health risks to worry about
> 5. oops upon further investigation 10km better evacuate
> *6. Increases evacuation distance from 10km to 20km
> 7. 3 nuke workers exposed to radiation, but they are fine
> ...

----------


## Matt Collins

> *Quake moved Japan coast 8 feet; shifted Earth's axis four by nearly 4 inches* 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T1


 So is that gonna screw up the time change tonight?

----------


## s35wf

Everyone (especially those on west coast &/or hawaii) ought to begin taking potassium iodide or at least a little iodine now.  to prevent any exposure to radiation that might come across the ocean.  You can pick up tinctue of iodine at any drug store for a couple of bucks.  Beside you might find that your system is already iodine deficent.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

The announcer at the beginning states concerns over "nuclear power plants" yet doesn't seem to go much into it other than showing the explosion and talking about the one plant. 

http://www.necn.com/03/12/11/Concern...97&feedID=4207

And there is valiant drama at 2:10, as a large boat confronts the wave...

----------


## goldenequity

This says NISA presumes a meltdown CAUSED the explosion.

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm




> Meltdown Caused Nuke Plant Explosion: Safety Body
> 
> TOKYO (Nikkei)--*The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) said Saturday* afternoon the explosion at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant 
> *could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core.*
> 
> The same day, Tokyo Electric Power Co. (9501), which runs the plant, 
> began to flood the damaged reactor with seawater to cool it down, 
> resorting to measures that could rust the reactor and force the utility to scrap it.
> 
> ...

----------


## angelatc

The might as well be affiliated with the ministry of truth.

This reminds me of Katrina.  After the hurricane, the newscasters were reporting on the aftermath of the hurricane, and one of them casually mentioned that there was a report of a crack in a levy before moving back to the cache of dramatic video.

I stayed glued to the TV for 2 more hours, and they didn't mention it again. I finally went to bed, and when I woke up the city was underwater.

The newsreaders don't have a clue, and the government is trying to avoid panic while averting a disaster.   Nobody knows what the situation really is.

----------


## Roxi

Fox now reporting 'Red Alert' for reactor #2.

----------


## TheState

> This says NISA presumes a meltdown CAUSED the explosion.
> 
> http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110312D12JFF03.htm


That's the only way it can happen. Hydrogen is produced from the oxidation of the zirconium cladding on the fuel rods, which usually happens around the time of fuel melting (possibly a little before, but mostly over 1800F)

On a side note, a hydrogen deflagration DID occur at 3 Mile Island, but the containment held during the pressure spike (but that was a PWR so it did not have the extra inner containment that BWR's have).

----------


## KramerDSP

> The might as well be affiliated with the ministry of truth.
> 
> This reminds me of Katrina.  After the hurricane, the newscasters were reporting on the aftermath of the hurricane, and one of them casually mentioned that there was a report of a crack in a levy before moving back to the cache of dramatic video.
> 
> I stayed glued to the TV for 2 more hours, and they didn't mention it again. I finally went to bed, and when I woke up the city was underwater.
> 
> The newsreaders don't have a clue, and the government is trying to avoid panic while averting a disaster.   Nobody knows what the situation really is.


No question about it. I saw a tweet that said people were feeling ill and that something was wrong with one of the other reactors. Who knows what is going on. All I can say is that my BS detector is going off big time, and I think something big either happened or is about to happen.

----------


## ihsv

Gotta love drudge:

Building housing Fukushima I reactor blows up...
VIDEO...
REUTERS: Radiation leaking, pressure in core unstable...
*Gov't: Levels are low...*
*JIJI: Levels 1,000 times normal...*
Caesium detected; points to nuke fuel melt...
Evacuation widened to 20 km...
*'No immediate health hazard,' officials say -- while evacuating 45,000...*
Three workers near plant suffer radiation exposure...
IAEA: Japan preparing to hand out iodine near nuke plants...
NEW PLAN: Fill leaking reactor with sea water...

----------


## mac_hine



----------


## awake

I guess nothing short of Armageddon will get the world out of depression.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> I guess nothing short of Armageddon will get the world out of depression.


LoL.

----------


## Kylie

> Situation Update No. 28
> On 12.03.2011 at 19:11 GMT+2
> 
> As many as 10,000 people have been reported missing in a northern Japanese town as a strong aftershock hit near a nuclear plant in Fukushima. Three people evacuated from the area near the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant were exposed to radiation. The three were randomly chosen for examination out of about 90 bedridden patients moved from the hospital in the town of Futaba-machi. The patients had waited for rescuers outside a school, spending a long time outside and then being moved by helicopter at the time when an explosion hit the aging plant. Up to 10,000 residents in the port town of Minamisanriku in the Miyagi prefecture - more than half of the population - were unaccounted for, highlighting the unfolding scale of the disaster.
> 
> Local authorities are trying to find their whereabouts with the help of soldiers. Authorities confirmed that around 7500 people were evacuated to 25 shelters after the quake, but they were unable to contact the other 10,000. "Our monitoring operations have been hampered with debris and mud," an official said. "Even helicopters can't approach some of the shelters. I'm afraid that it will take more time to finish our confirmation procedures." An aftershock with a magnitude of 6.4 hit near the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, where nuclear officials earlier confirmed a radiation leak and doubled the evacuation zone around the crippled reactor. Prime Minister Naoto Kan said Friday's 8.9-magnitude earthquake and 10-metre tsunami was an "unprecedented national disaster" and appealed for calm as fears grew amid the atomic emergency.
> 
> "By taking firm measures, we will do our best not to have even a single person suffer from health problems," he said. "From the bottom of my heart, I would like everybody to listen to the government and to media reports and to act calmly." Dramatic TV footage showed the blast at the nuclear plant ripping through the coastal facility, sending plumes of smoke billowing high into the air. The operator of the plant said the reactor container was not damaged despite the large explosion, Japan's chief cabinet secretary Yukio Edano told a TV briefing, adding that radiation levels fell after the blast. "The nuclear reactor is surrounded by a steel reactor container, which is then surrounded by a concrete building. The concrete building collapsed. We found out that the reactor container inside didn't explode," Mr Edano said. Edano said the explosion was caused by hydrogen, generated by the falling level of cooling water, pouring into space between the building and container and exploding when it mixed with oxygen.
> 
> ...



http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?cid=29849

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Well.... hard to tell... the linked post coupled with the previous you tube seems to imply that it was the exterior of the building that housed the containment structure itself...


 nvm, question answered

----------


## UtahApocalypse

This is a good article on the situation:

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegrea...own_and_p.html




> At 8:20, they started pouring in seawater but an aftershock forced it to stop at 10:15. It doesn’t seem to be filling the tank, leading to fears that there is a leak and the reactor will never be properly cooled. Edano confirmed that the plant had been emitting 1,015 μSv per hour—about the same as one would be allowed for one year—before the explosion, but he said large amounts of radiation were not being reported now. There are, however, reports that 190 people are affected by radiation.


Looks like were no where near done with this..... also remember this is only one of five reactors total having issues.

----------


## s35wf

I think something BIG has happened or is YET to happen.  START Taking/Ordering/Obtaining your Potassium Iodide NOW!  or atleast tincture of iodine!

----------


## KramerDSP

> I think something BIG has happened or is YET to happen.  START Taking/Ordering/Obtaining your Potassium Iodide NOW!  or atleast tincture of iodine!


We're both in Florida. The worst case scenario from what I have read is that people east of the Rocky Mountains should be OK and that the biggest concern would be food contamination. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I have a very uneasy feeling as well.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ws_BlogsModule




> *Japan Fills Damaged Reactor With Seawater*
> 
> TOKYOThe Japanese government said Saturday that it has begun filling a nuclear reactor container vessel at the Fukushima Daiichi plant with seawater, after a concrete structure housing the vessel collapsed after an explosion that followed Friday's earthquake and tsunami.
> 
> "I think we can get this under control" through the addition of the seawater, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano, the government's top spokesman, said at a news conference. He said the explosion, which was caused by hydrogen gas coming into contact with oxygen, only destroyed the outermost structure and didn't damage the container vessel.
> 
> Mr. Edano said no great amount of radiation leaked after the explosion.
> ...
> Asked about the impact of radiation at eight times higher than normal levels, Naoto Sekimura, a professor of quantum engineering at Tokyo University, said on national broadcaster NHK, "This is a minuscule amount. This is not going to have negative impact on the human body."
> ...

----------


## s35wf

First thing I did this morning upon waking & reading about nuclear fallout is grab a bottle of iodine & spread some on me, kid, & kids friends in my house with some iodine on their tummys!  (me personally ive been doomed since i was a gleam in the ole mans eye; he was involved in TWO atomic bomb testings years ago; still has enough radiation in him to be considered a GlowWorm!)

----------


## Kylie

Oh, $#@!'s going down. But I have no idea as to the time scale of it, just like the rest of the world. 

There are earthquakes and volcanoes acting up all around the pacific plate, so that sucker may be in for some serious movement again. 

It's weird, though, because there is no talk of the second set of reactors on that website I posted, nor the second reactor at the first site. There were two icons concerning both reactor sites yesterday, and only one today, the one that's blown.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Who to believe?
> 
> 
> Scientist warns of "Chernobyl-like" disaster (1:57) 
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/video...eoId=194714199
> 
> Or:
> 
> ...


Strike against the Japanese professor.

Chernobyl was a light water reactor.





> Using light water for cooling and graphite for moderation, it is possible to use natural uranium for fuel.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBMK

----------


## TheState

> Strike against the Japanese professor.
> 
> Chernobyl was a light water reactor.


You're right, however he's right too (though he put it wrong). Chernobyl had a positive void coefficient, the reactors in Japan do not. 

What that means is that at Chernobyl, as water started boiling off, power went up. In Japan, as water starts boiling off, power will go down.



Edit: Actually, I take that back, the professor is right. Even though Chernobyl used light water for cooling, technically it is graphite moderated (hence the positive void coefficient). The Japan reactors use light water for cooling and moderation.

----------


## Carson

> Video shows what is left of one of the containment structures


Good video. The picture of the building 1 after the explosion is eerily similar to Chernobyl.

----------


## jtstellar

So wtf.. is radiation going to rain down here on cali or not.. wtf is government doing jacking up all the resources and crowd out private watchdogs with their $#@! regulations and now give no warning or analysis.. $#@!ing go to hell

----------


## Aratus

to cool down a pre-meltdown scenario, don't you pull rods 
out of the pile? you then have a lead encased storage area.

----------


## TheState

> to cool down a pre-meltdown scenario, don't you pull rods 
> out of the pile? you then have a lead encased storage area.


If there was still water in the reactor, pulling the rods completely out would be taking the reactor to 100% power. The rods fell automatically when the quake hit and the reactor shut down. They are just dealing with the decay heat (probably about 1-2 megawatts or 0.5% of full power).

----------


## KramerDSP

> So wtf.. is radiation going to rain down here on cali or not.. wtf is government doing jacking up all the resources and crowd out private watchdogs with their $#@! regulations and now give no warning or analysis.. $#@!ing go to hell


Nobody really knows anything. The Japanese Government has officially declared "the event" a level 4 out of 7 (5 being Three Mile Island and 7 being Chernobyl) which is a localized event. But people are saying it is far too early to tell for sure. I've been monitoring http://twitter.com/#!/search/fukushima for instaneous updates, but they're not all reliable, and not all in chronological order either.

----------


## Carson

> First thing I did this morning upon waking & reading about nuclear fallout is grab a bottle of iodine & spread some on me, kid, & kids friends in my house with some iodine on their tummys!  (me personally ive been doomed since i was a gleam in the ole mans eye; he was involved in TWO atomic bomb testings years ago; still has enough radiation in him to be considered a GlowWorm!)


Maybe don't go to apey with the iodine unless your real close to the accident site.  I see a picture being posted of the time it will take for the radiation to get here and it looks like we have some wiggle room. Besides they tell us a meltdown hasn't occurred yet so what has been release should dissipate by a large degree.

There should be pleanty of time to study up on Potassium Iodide and purchase some.

I'm pretty sure it was my biology teacher Mrs. Brown that told us all about this and the theory that filling up on less radioactive iodine should help keep some of the radioactive isotopes from being taken in. She was the best.

Then again it could be sold out.

Going apey here.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> You're right, however he's right too (though he put it wrong). Chernobyl had a positive void coefficient, the reactors in Japan do not. 
> 
> What that means is that at Chernobyl, as water started boiling off, power went up. In Japan, as water starts boiling off, power will go down.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Actually, I take that back, the professor is right. Even though Chernobyl used light water for cooling, technically it is graphite moderated (hence the positive void coefficient). The Japan reactors use light water for cooling and moderation.


True enough, and it is was the burning graphite soot that spread most of the radioactivity.

At this point I'm assuming the reactors all "auto SCRAM-ed" and they are dealing with residual heat.

But that is still enough to cause a loss of cooling accident.

----------


## teacherone

> *URGENT: Cooling system fails at Fukushima No. 2 plant
> TOKYO, March 12, Kyodo*
> 
> The cooling system failed at three reactors of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 2 nuclear power plant Saturday, the operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.
> 
> The company, which has already scrambled to deal with radiation leaks at its Fukushima No. 1 plant, notified the industry ministry that the failsafe system at the No. 2 plant stopped functioning as the temperature of coolant water has topped 100 C.


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/76962.html

----------


## Carson

Fark has a few thread going on this topic. Here is a link to one of the latest.

http://www.fark.com/comments/6028329...ad-3&new=1#new

----------


## teacherone

plant was supposed to be powered down for good this month---


Important dates:




> Construction Start:	7.1967
>  	Grid connection:	11.1970
>  	First criticality:	10.1970
>  	Commercial operation:	3.1971
> *Expected shutdown date:* *3.2011*


http://www.icjt.org/plants/uni/a/uni194a.html

----------


## JoshLowry

> plant was supposed to be powered down for good this month---
> 
> Important dates:
> 
> http://www.icjt.org/plants/uni/a/uni194a.html


Wow, that's really unfortunate.

Looks like they can scratch that off their to do list.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Wow, that's really unfortunate.
> 
> Looks like they can scratch that off their to do list.

----------


## Fox McCloud

It was planned to be shut down on the 26th....well...they  almost made it. :T

----------


## MozoVote

Now this has become MORE interesting. What are the odds that a company running a plant that is about to be shut down, might have become become lax with expensive maintenance and emergency procedures? There will certainly be an inquiry after the disaster relief actions have been completed.

----------


## s35wf

> Maybe don't go to apey with the iodine unless your real close to the accident site.  I see a picture being posted of the time it will take for the radiation to get here and it looks like we have some wiggle room. Besides they tell us a meltdown hasn't occurred yet so what has been release should dissipate by a large degree.
> 
> There should be pleanty of time to study up on Potassium Iodide and purchase some.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was my biology teacher Mrs. Brown that told us all about this and the theory that filling up on less radioactive iodine should help keep some of the radioactive isotopes from being taken in. She was the best.
> 
> Then again it could be sold out.
> 
> Going apey here.


Im not going apey; just KNOW that having a good supply of iodine in your body is good for ya anyways!  (cant hurt;might help) and in advance is good thing!  besides I have an xray done the other day anyways.  Research iodine then get back to me.  Oh some website I just read said that the radiation could cross the Pacific in as little as 36 Hours  .......SO ALL YOU GUYS ON THE WEST COAST make sure you got your IODINE!

----------


## jtyr8nt93

According to Reuters, Japan is asking Russia to provide a more enhanced and abundant energy supply.  Plan is to increase liquified natural gas to 150,000 metric tons and maybe coal also from Gazprom.

----------


## KramerDSP

Oh boy....




> A meltdown may be under way at one of Fukushima nuclear power reactors, an official with nuclear and industrial safety agency told CNN

----------


## s35wf

bump.  reports on twitter say two other reactors are fixing to go up!  WARNING!

----------


## One Last Battle!

Just to let you know, potassium iodide is a bit unhealthy. If you take it without needing it, it can have some very nasty side effects.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> plant was supposed to be powered down for good this month---


Interesting. Didn't one story say that they delayed adding seawater because they though it would cause damage (rust)?

----------


## Carson

> Im not going apey; just KNOW that having a good supply of iodine in your body is good for ya anyways!  (cant hurt;might help) and in advance is good thing!  besides I have an xray done the other day anyways.  Research iodine then get back to me.  Oh some website I just read said that the radiation could cross the Pacific in as little as 36 Hours  .......SO ALL YOU GUYS ON THE WEST COAST make sure you got your IODINE!


I was just teasing...sort of. 

When I was looking into Potassium Iodide I think I came across something about only continuing the dosage for ten days. That may have been the dosage used for blocking radiation treatment. I can't remember. I have been thinking I should hold off to an extent because it might be better to slowy try the stuff out and save some tolerance for if the radiation levels rise here. 

I haven't really had much of a chance to look into Iodine itself.

I know I buy my salt fortified with it. Also I have one a day vitamins that contain a daily dose.

Your right about keeping the levels up. I can't remember the diseases off hand that were associated with low iodine but I know they stopped a boat load of hurt when they decided to add it to salt.


P.S. West coast here.

----------


## steph3n

> I was just teasing...sort of. 
> 
> When I was looking into Potassium Iodide I think I came across something about only continuing the dosage for ten days. That may have been the dosage used for blocking radiation treatment. I can't remember. I have been thinking I should hold off to an extent because it might be better to slowy try the stuff out and save some tolerance for if the radiation levels rise here. 
> 
> I haven't really had much of a chance to look into Iodine itself.
> 
> I know I buy my salt fortified with it. Also I have one a day vitamins that contain a daily dose.
> 
> Your right about keeping the levels up. I can't remember the diseases off hand that were associated with low iodine but I know they stopped a boat load of hurt when they decided to add it to salt.
> ...


Eat more sushi. (with nori)
Good thing many of the Japanese do, it is high in iodine.

----------


## Carson

> Eat more sushi. (with nori)
> Good thing many of the Japanese do, it is high in iodine.


When I stayed with my Grandmother in Missouri she was big on the iodine because she thought we were so far inland we didn't eat enough sea food.

I think my Mom kept iodine in the medicine cabinet. All day I have been confusing the memory of it with the memory of the bottle of Mercurochrome with the skull and cross bones on it.

----------


## S.Shorland

It went further north west than that.We had land in Cumbria contaminated with caesium.The farmers had to have their sheep tested before sale,if i remember rightly.


>

----------


## Carson

> Just to let you know, potassium iodide is a bit unhealthy. If you take it without needing it, it can have some very nasty side effects.


Good point  *One Last Battle!*,

_WHO Recommended Dosage for Radiological Emergencies involving radioactive iodine[21] Age 	KI in mg
Over 40 years old 	not recommended
Over 12 years old 	130
3  12 years old 	65
1  36 months old 	32
< 1 month old 	16_

I remember seeing a side effect list earlier and dug this back up off of the Wiki.


_There have been some reports of potassium iodide treatment causing swelling of the parotid gland (one of the three glands which secrete saliva), due to its stimulatory effects on saliva production.[33]

A saturated solution of KI (SSKI) is typically given orally in adult doses of about 250 mg iodide several times a day (5 drops of SSKI assumed to be ⅓ mL) for thyroid blockage and occasionally as an expectorant. At these doses, and sometimes at much lower doses, side effects may include: acne, loss of appetite, or upset stomach (especially during the first several days, as the body adjusts to the medication). More severe side effects which require notification of a physician are: fever, weakness, unusual tiredness, swelling in the neck or throat, mouth sores, skin rash, nausea, vomiting, stomach pains, irregular heartbeat, numbness or tingling of the hands or feet, or a metallic taste in the mouth.[34]_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_iodide

----------


## FrankRep

*Drudge Report:*

SIXTH NUKE PLANT FAILS
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77230.html

----------


## TheState

I just received the following update/details from the American Nuclear Society.




> *To begin, a sense of perspective is needed right now, the Japanese earthquake/tsunami is clearly a catastrophe; the situation at impacted nuclear reactors is, in the words of IAEA, an "Accident with Local Consequences."*
> 
> The Japanese earthquake and tsunami are natural catastrophes of historic proportions. The death toll is likely to be in the thousands. While the information is still not complete at this time, the tragic loss of life and destruction caused by the earthquake and tsunami will likely dwarf the damage caused by the problems associated with the impacted Japanese nuclear plants. 
> 
> *What happened?*
> 
> Recognizing that information is still not complete due to the destruction of the communication infrastructure, producing reports that are conflicting, here is our best understanding of the sequence of events at the Fukushima I‐1 power station.
> 
>  The plant was immediately shut down (scrammed) when the earthquake first hit. The automatic power system worked.
> ...

----------


## Tinnuhana

On my way out to church in a few minutes this morning. Local TV is talking about the reactor and showing old TMI videos. Others showing the level the water has reached as they fill the remaining outer container. Wish I could tell you more, but it's 24/7 news here on local TV. Meanwhile AFN is doing regular programming. Wonder if it's regular programming at Misawa?!

----------


## Southron

If you are really worried or want to be prepared for future problems, get rolls of plastic and duct tape, and perhaps some way to wash yourself off outdoors.

----------


## Carson

> I just received the following update/details from the American Nuclear Society.
> 
> Snip...
> 
> *Is a nuclear reactor "meltdown" a catastrophic event?*
> 
>  Not necessarily. Nuclear reactors are built with redundant safety systems. Even if the fuel in the reactor melts, the reactor's containment systems are designed to prevent the spread of radioactivity into the environment. Should an event like this occur, containing the radioactive materials could actually be considered a "success" given the scale of this natural disaster that had not been considered in the original design. The nuclear power industry will learn from this event, and redesign our facilities as needed to make them safer in the future.




Let me venture a guess. 

Not at all. They will just print up fiat money and bail themselves out?

----------


## Carson

Some people on Fark mentioned that salt water was a measure of last resort.?

----------


## KramerDSP

> Some people on Fark mentioned that salt water was a measure of last resort.?


From my limited understanding, salt water with Boron basically renders everything useless, and the plant can never operate again. So it's definently a last resort measure.

----------


## steph3n

> From my limited understanding, salt water with Boron basically renders everything useless, and the plant can never operate again. So it's definently a last resort measure.


Last month they got an extension to run the two reactors #1 and #2 for 10 more years!

So those that were saying since it was about to be shut down in 15 days it may have been in disrepair, I think are wrong on that regard.
now it was older and potentially less safe design then newer plants.

The salt water + boric acid renders it useless forever.

----------


## KramerDSP

> Last month they got an extension to run the two reactors #1 and #2 for 10 more years!
> 
> So those that were saying since it was about to be shut down in 15 days it may have been in disrepair, I think are wrong on that regard.
> now it was older and potentially less safe design then newer plants.
> 
> The salt water + boric acid renders it useless forever.


Boric. Thanks for the correction.

----------


## Roxi

CNN is using Bill Nye the science guy as their expert.

----------


## Matt Collins

> CNN is using Bill Nye the science guy as their expert.


 Yeah I LOL'd at that. Bill Nye the global warming guy!

Was it just me, or did his forehead look like Frankenstien?

----------


## ihsv

Via twitter:   In Fukushima long lines for water, gas, food. In one convenience store the only food we could find is icecream.

I can't stress enough - PREPAREDNESS.  Even the most rudimentary necessities are in short supply in those areas that were hit.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

This is now making the rounds. Looks to be run by a company that sells Geiger counters...




> Welcome to RadiationNetwork.com, home of the National Radiation Map, depicting environmental radiation levels across the USA, updated in real time every 3 minutes.  This is the first web site where the average citizen (or anyone in the world) can see what radiation levels are anywhere in the USA at any time (see Disclaimer at link).


http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm

----------


## osan

> With any luck neither will happen and they'll be able to get some power to the high pressure feed pumps and cool the pile down again.



The truly distressing aspect of this is that the failsafe design of the reactor appears to have... well... failed.  What is up with that?  If a failsafe fails to fail safely, then it is not what it is called.

----------


## osan

> this is nuts .. and something else that anti-nuclear power people can pull out of their pockets to justify a ban.



Well, this event sort of underscores their points.  May I take it that you are able to appreciate the gravity of such an event?  If it is indeed so that the walls and roof of the containment vessel have been destroyed, it would follow that an enormous amount of very dangerous material is now on the loose.  The consequences of this, while yet to be seen, may be extrapolated in part based on the experiences from the catastrophic reactor failures at Chelyabinsk and Chernobyl.  These killed hundreds of thousands of people from cancers contracted as a result of exposure.  Those were very remote locations.  I'm not sure there is such a thing as a remote location in Japan, what with some 150 million people squashed into an area smaller than California.  Depending on how much got out, the particular makeup of the materials in question (doubt there is plutonium involved, but people are so nuts anymore, nothing can really be taken for granted, I suppose), and where it gets blown, this could kill tens of millions of people over the next decade or so.

I'm all for free enterprise, but the nuclear energy thing is eminently questionable and this event illustrates why.

----------


## osan

> "The walls of a building at a nuclear power station crumbled Saturday following an explosion only hours after Japanese officials said they feared the reactor could melt down....
> 
> Note the use of indefinite article "a building"


Noted.  I sure wish people would report $#@! more precisely than they do sometimes.  Seriously, there is a HUGE difference between saying THE building crumbled and A building did.  Basic language skills here folks.  Basic communications.  It's not a joke, either.

----------


## osan

> Wow.  So the exposure is actually greater than 1 year's worth.  If true it could be much higher.


I f you are getting a year's worth per hour, the exposure rate is better than 8,700 times "normal".  You are $#@!ed.  The people of the surrounding areas are all $#@!ed.  Utterly, completely, and sadly so. If you are exposed for 1 day, you have 24 years worth of exposure.  If this is indeed the level of contamination, then by now all those people are nothing better than the walking dead.

This is pretty bad.

----------


## Carson

> This is now making the rounds. Looks to be run by a company that sells Geiger counters...
> 
> 
> http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm


Thanks.

Here is a link to a news site with before and after ROLL OVER pictures. You roll the black line back and forth.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/ja...eforeafter.htm

----------


## osan

> I have no way of verifying this image, but it is the one I saw on twitter.


WTF?  Call me crazy but this image looks like pure bull$#@! to me.  750 RADS?!!  Over the USA?  If that map is accurate, then I GUARANTEE that at least 50 million Americans will be dead in the coming week.  I seriously doubt this is the case.  In order to spread that much energy over that large an area, the pile would have had to have been stupefyingly large.  This strikes me as a very irresponsibly exaggerated prediction.  Whoever posted is should have their ass caned until it bleeds.  $#@!s.

As I recall the LD50 for radiation is somewhere around 300 or 400 rad.  750 would kill just about everyone, as far as I can recall.  Make sure you alert anyone you know who has seen this and is presently freaking out or is about to.  The situation is bad enough as it is - we don't need to make matters worse.

----------


## TheState

> May I take it that you are able to appreciate the gravity of such an event?  If it is indeed so that the walls and roof of the containment vessel have been destroyed, it would follow that an enormous amount of very dangerous material is now on the loose.


That is not true. The building that collapsed was an outer concrete containment. There is still the reactor vessel and inner steel containment.




> I f you are getting a year's worth per hour, the exposure rate is better than 8,700 times "normal". You are $#@!ed. The people of the surrounding areas are all $#@!ed. Utterly, completely, and sadly so. If you are exposed for 1 day, you have 24 years worth of exposure. If this is indeed the level of contamination, then by now all those people are nothing better than the walking dead.


This is also not true. A year's worth of radiation is about 0.3 rem. The doses you would need to receive within a day to be in danger are greater than 100 rem.

As an example, you get 1-10 rem just from a CT scan.

----------


## angelatc

> The truly distressing aspect of this is that the failsafe design of the reactor appears to have... well... failed.  What is up with that?  If a failsafe fails to fail safely, then it is not what it is called.


Chaos thoery is the base of my objections to nuclear energy.  And much like socialism, it is too much power to entrust to humans.

----------


## Fox McCloud

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42056237...fic/?GT1=43001

The 2nd reactor is apparently at risk to explode.

That said, it seems that it's reactor #3 we need to worry about.

----------


## LibertyEagle

Osan, I don't remember which thread, but someone said that picture came from 4Chan.  So, you'd be right about it.

----------


## Mogambo Guru

We need some context in here..  Is it serious, yes, but...  here is a good explanation.  I can also say that from talking with a friend of mine who works for GE nuclear, that the explosion we all saw was from steam.  There has been no nuclear explosion or meltdown.

Its still a serious situation though.


http://blogs.scienceforums.net/swansont/archives/8132

I’m not an expert on nuclear reactors. I taught in the nuclear power program of the US Navy some years ago, meaning I was competent to discuss some aspects of reactors, and specifically the type the navy uses. So I’m also not some random guy in the street. With that disclaimer in mind, there are a few items to mention with regard to the reactor issues in Japan following the earthquake.

This is not another Chernobyl. The reactor design is very different, and the circumstances are different. The Chernobyl accident (link for the more technically inclined) involved an operating reactor that went prompt critical as the result of operational errors, deliberate disabling of certain safeguards as part of a test, and design flaws. This caused a steam explosion and chemical fires as the carbon moderator caught fire.

A closer analogy would be Three Mile Island.

There have been reports of an explosion, but it must be stressed that this was not a nuclear explosion. The reactors have been shut down. It’s not so easy to cause a nuclear explosion in the first place (bombs require a level of expertise), and a shutdown reactor does not have the capability of sustaining the fission reaction. This leaves us with steam pressure buildup or hydrogen as the most likely culprits, i.e. it’s thermodynamics or chemistry, not nuclear physics, which explains the explosion.

The reactor is shut down, so what’s the danger? The products of a fission reaction are typically radioactive, and subsequent decays also release energy. Shutting down the reactor reduces the fission rate by many orders of magnitude, so it’s effectively zero in terms of heat output, but the radioactive fission products still release up to 6-7% of the plant’s power output. The actual value depends on the operating history; the fission products with long half-lives take longer to build up to steady-state values. This value will drop fairly quickly as the short-lived isotopes decay, but it’s still significant — a reactor rated at 1000 MW will still be producing tens of MW of decay heat. The reactors in question at Fukushima Daiichi are rated at 460 or 784 MW

So shutting down does not mean it’s Miller Time? Right. You need to run pumps and do something with the energy, which usually means piping water to a cooling tower, which means you need to run pumps, and those require electricity. It seems silly, at first glance, that a reactor would need a source of power to run it, but the turbines are probably designed to run at the high power output of the reactor and not off of decay heat. So you have an external power line (lost in the quake), local generators (apparently also damaged) and battery backup. Redundant systems. However, it seems that the damage was severe, so the primary and first backup systems are still offline, and if cooling was lost (batteries have a finite lifetime), the water in the core can boil away.

That sounds bad. Yes. As long as the core stays covered with water, things should be fine. But uncovered, the temperature can rise and fuel elements can begin to melt. Hydrogen is produced, which can explode, and boiling water becomes steam, which raises the pressure in the containment vessel. The latter is why the containment vessel would be vented. You would need to replace that water into the system, which also requires pumps. (This what had happened at TMI, though in that case, the cooling pumps were shut off deliberately owing to a flawed procedure)

So this is serious. Nothing here is meant to imply otherwise. But the term “meltdown” (or worse, if preceded by “Chernobyl-like”) raises all sorts of imagery, most of which is inaccurate.

Here are some links from what look to be credible sources. This is a dynamic situation, so there is a shelf-life to the details.
Nuclear Crisis in Japan: What We Know
Factbox: What happens when a reactor loses coolant

----------


## randomname

Breaking news  from Kyodo: the cooling system at Tokai, a third nuclear power plant now  said to have cooling failures, has stopped according to the fire  department. Tokai was Japan's first nuclear power plant. The plant has  two reactors: a 1965 built Magnox-type 166MW, and a 1978 built Boiling Water Reactor generating 1100MW. As Wikileaks reports:  "This Boiling Water Reactor  was the first nuclear reactor built in  Japan to produce over 1000 MW of electricity. By some formalities in the  paperwork, the unit is technically separate from the rest of the  nuclear facilities at Tokai-mura, but it is managed with the rest of  them and even shares the same front gate. The power produced at the unit  is sold by both the Tokyo Electric Company and the Tohoku Electric  Company." SkyNews adds that the cooling has failed at the bigger, BWR  reactor. 

A quick summary of the reactors:
*Unit 1*
This  reactor was built based on British developed Magnox  technology. Unit 1  will be the first nuclear reactor to be decommissioned in Japan. The  experience in decommissioning this plant is expected to be of use in the  future when more Japanese plants are decommissioned. Below is a brief  time-line of the process.

    * March 31, 1998: operations cease
    * March 2001: last of the nuclear fuel moved off-site
    * October 4, 2001: decommissioning plan announced
    * December 2001: decommissioning begins, spent fuel pool is cleaned
    * 2003: turbine room and electric generator taken down
    * Late 2004: fuel moving crane dismantled
    * 2011: the reactor itself is dismantled
*Unit 2*
This Boiling Water Reactor  was the first nuclear reactor built in Japan to produce over 1000 MW of  electricity. By some formalities in the paperwork, the unit is  technically separate from the rest of the nuclear facilities at  Tokai-mura, but it is managed with the rest of them and even shares the  same front gate. The power produced at the unit is sold by both the Tokyo Electric Company and the Tohoku Electric Company.

----------


## randomname

Location of the Tokai plant, which is just south of the two Fukushima complexes... and only 100 km from Tokyo:

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> We need some context in here..  Is it serious, yes, but...  here is a good explanation.  I can also say that from talking with a friend of mine who works for GE nuclear, that *the explosion we all saw was from steam*.  There has been no nuclear explosion or meltdown.
> 
> Its still a serious situation though. ...


How does a steam explosion cause the flames that are clearly evident in the video of the explosion? 

Still a lot of uncertainty on this

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/1...spread-to-u-s/




> "One reactor has had half the core exposed already," he explained. "This is the one they're flooding with sea water in a desperate effort to prevent it from a complete meltdown. They lost control of a second reactor next to it, a partial meltdown, and there is actually a third reactor at a related site 20-kilometers away they have also lost control over. We have never had a situation like this before."
> 
> "The worst case scenario is that the fuel rods fuse together, the temperatures get so hot that they melt together in a radioactive molten mass that bursts through the containment mechmisms and is exposed to the outside. So they spew radioactivity in the ground, into the air, into the water. Some of the radioactivity could carry in the atmosphere to the West Coast of the United States."

----------


## TheState

> How does a steam explosion cause the flames that are clearly evident in the video of the explosion?


The explosion was from hydrogen, not steam. It's produced when the zirconium clad on the fuel rods oxidizes. There was also a hydrogen deflagration at 3 mile island, but that was a PWR with only one containment, so it was stronger and handled the pressure spike.

----------


## Carson

> How does a steam explosion cause the flames that are clearly evident in the video of the explosion? 
> 
> Still a lot of uncertainty on this
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/1...spread-to-u-s/


It could have been hydrogen trapped in the containment building. The core is another containment vessel inside of that building from what I understand. Still very serious I would imagine.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Things are not sounding good.  KI was allready distributed as a precaution, but now there is a new warning:

"Stay inside and wear long sleeved clothing and a wet flannel over your face.  If you go outside, take off all your clothes and place them in a plastic bag when you come back in, so you don't contaminate your house."

I don't know about you, but that warning screams live breach to me!

-t

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> The explosion was from hydrogen, not steam. It's produced when the zirconium clad on the fuel rods oxidizes. There was also a hydrogen deflagration at 3 mile island, but that was a PWR with only one containment, so it was stronger and handled the pressure spike.





> It could have been hydrogen trapped in the containment building. The core is another containment vessel inside of that building from what I understand. Still very serious I would imagine.


Yes, that seems much more probable. I was responding to the post I quoted and section I bolded:




> Originally Posted by Mogambo Guru  
> We need some context in here.. Is it serious, yes, but... here is a good explanation. I can also say that from talking with a friend of mine who works for GE nuclear, that *the explosion we all saw was from steam*.


I do think this highlights how even alleged experts (underlined above) are adding to the uncertainty.

----------


## angelatc

> Things are not sounding good.  KI was allready distributed as a precaution, but now there is a new warning:
> 
> "Stay inside and wear long sleeved clothing and a wet flannel over your face.  If you go outside, take off all your clothes and place them in a plastic bag when you come back in, so you don't contaminate your house."
> 
> I don't know about you, but that warning screams live breach to me!
> 
> -t


As a group, we always tend to be rather skeptical of official announcements, so let's  look at what they're DOING instead what they are saying:

First they ordered 6000 people to evacuate a 10km radius, then it became 50,000 from a 20km radius. Now we're hearing that it is up to 200,000 people being told to leave. 

The conditions for travel and communication are abysmal -  roads are destroyed, no gasoline for vehicles, no food along the way,  no shelter at the end of the journey, yet people are being told to go. Just go.

Speaks for itself.

----------


## Carson

Speaking of steam. It is creeping me out seeing pictures of a cloud of what looks like steam over the plant in the updated Google Earth pictures.

From Fark;

_This Google page has a tiny KML file that loads into Google Earth. Then on the left menu, under "Places", you can turn new satellite pictures on and off._

http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2...-of-japan.html


Probably just a regular cloud and I think the number one reactor is in the clear on the top. But still.

----------


## doctor jones

> It went further north west than that.We had land in Cumbria contaminated with caesium.The farmers had to have their sheep tested before sale,if i remember rightly.


My girlfriend is Turkish and she said she remembers it [chernobyl] causing birth defects in a lot of women who lived in cities north of Istanbul.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> The explosion was from hydrogen, not steam. It's produced when the zirconium clad on the fuel rods oxidizes. There was also a hydrogen deflagration at 3 mile island, but that was a PWR with only one containment, so it was stronger and handled the pressure spike.


How does the hydrogen get into the outer containment building to mix with air in sufficient quantities to cause an explosion?

I'm assuming the inner pressure vessel had to be vented to do that.

And if that's the case, and the zirconium cladding is oxidizing (indicating that the core is now, at least partially, uncovered), then they are right in the middle of a catastrophic loss of cooling accident.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> As a group, we always tend to be rather skeptical of official announcements, so let's  look at what they're DOING instead what they are saying:
> 
> First they ordered 6000 people to evacuate a 10km radius, then it became 50,000 from a 20km radius. Now we're hearing that it is up to 200,000 people being told to leave. 
> 
> The conditions for travel and communication are abysmal -  roads are destroyed, no gasoline for vehicles, no food along the way,  no shelter at the end of the journey, yet people are being told to go. Just go.
> 
> Speaks for itself.


Yeah, that ^^^

----------


## TheState

> I do think this highlights how even alleged experts (underlined above) are adding to the uncertainty.


Agreed, I know I mentioned it in the other thread, but I'll throw it out here too. I'm working on my Phd in nuclear engineering and my focus area is safety and risk.

So if anyone has any questions, let me know and I'll try my best to answer.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> WTF?  Call me crazy but this image looks like pure bull$#@! to me.  750 RADS?!!  Over the USA?  If that map is accurate, then I GUARANTEE that at least 50 million Americans will be dead in the coming week.  I seriously doubt this is the case.  In order to spread that much energy over that large an area, the pile would have had to have been stupefyingly large.  This strikes me as a very irresponsibly exaggerated prediction.  Whoever posted is should have their ass caned until it bleeds.  $#@!s.
> 
> As I recall the LD50 for radiation is somewhere around 300 or 400 rad.  750 would kill just about everyone, as far as I can recall.  Make sure you alert anyone you know who has seen this and is presently freaking out or is about to.  The situation is bad enough as it is - we don't need to make matters worse.


Agreed, you wouldn't get those kinds of numbers from an H bomb fallout pattern.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Agreed, I know I mentioned it in the other thread, but I'll throw it out here too. I'm working on my Phd in nuclear engineering and my focus area is safety and risk.
> 
> So if anyone has any questions, let me know and I'll try my best to answer.


RPF has *everything*.

Step up folks and ask the man.

----------


## TheState

> How does the hydrogen get into the outer containment building to mix with air in sufficient quantities to cause an explosion?
> 
> I'm assuming the inner pressure vessel had to be vented to do that.
> 
> And if that's the case, and the zirconium cladding is oxidizing (indicating that the core is now, at least partially, uncovered), then they are right in the middle of a catastrophic loss of cooling accident.


It sounded like earlier in the day they had released some pressure from the system (through relief valves). They probably vented into the outer containment (which is NOT inerted, the inner containment is). 

Yes, if there is hydrogen forming, there has definitely been exposed fuel and probably melting. However, the same thing happened at 3 mile island and that does not mean there will be an immediate high level release.

----------


## TheState

> RPF has *everything*.
> 
> Step up folks and ask the man.


I knew it would come in handy one day hah.

----------


## doctor jones

Anyone care to give a recap of events that have happened the last couple of days?

----------


## TheState

> Anyone care to give a recap of events that have happened the last couple of days?


Here's a recap from the American Nuclear Society that I posted before.

----------


## KramerDSP

> As a group, we always tend to be rather skeptical of official announcements, so let's  look at what they're DOING instead what they are saying:
> 
> First they ordered 6000 people to evacuate a 10km radius, then it became 50,000 from a 20km radius. Now we're hearing that it is up to 200,000 people being told to leave. 
> 
> The conditions for travel and communication are abysmal -  roads are destroyed, no gasoline for vehicles, no food along the way,  no shelter at the end of the journey, yet people are being told to go. Just go.
> 
> Speaks for itself.


+1 

The desperate actions of the people in charge do not match their calm words. The conclusion is things are far more serious than they are letting on.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul



----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Agreed, I know I mentioned it in the other thread, but I'll throw it out here too. I'm working on my Phd in nuclear engineering and my focus area is safety and risk.
> 
> So if anyone has any questions, let me know and I'll try my best to answer.


The balance is much appreciated




> Agreed, you wouldn't get those kinds of numbers from an H bomb fallout pattern.


Has anyone posted any studies of fallout patterns after Hiroshima/Nagasaki? And are they comparable?




> Anyone care to give a recap of events that have happened the last couple of days?


Japan is being slammed (Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Volcano) and there are nuclear uncertainties that we are staying on top of here. In other news, the Broken World Fallacy is being exploited by Keynesians.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> It sounded like earlier in the day they had released some pressure from the system (through relief valves). They probably vented into the outer containment (which is NOT inerted, the inner containment is). 
> 
> Yes, if there is hydrogen forming, there has definitely been exposed fuel and probably melting. However, the same thing happened at 3 mile island and that does not mean there will be an immediate high level release.


I remember TMI, I was 14 at the time.

The old man had a job with the old JCPL working at Oyster Creek.

They called him in for support during the TMI incident.

Hopefully the inner containments on these reactors have not been compromised.

----------


## TheState

> as anyone posted any studies of fallout patterns after Hiroshima/Nagasaki? And are they comparable?


The fallout wouldn't be the same for several reasons. First, and surprisingly, the bombs dropped on Japan were very clean, meaning that unless you were exposed to the initial blast, there was almost zero radiation exposure/fallout. Second, if there was a large scale release in Japan, it probably wouldn't be an energetic release, meaning that it wouldn't be an explosion, but a leak or breach in the containment. So it would be slow and probably only contain noble gases and very few of the heavier fission products.

----------


## Vessol

> 


Really good music, any idea where its from? I love Industrial.

oh and..OMG PANIC

9.11.01 Americans were killed.

3.10.11 Japanese were killed.

Add them up and you﻿ get...

12.21.12

IT IS COMING!!

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Has anyone posted any studies of fallout patterns after Hiroshima/Nagasaki? And are they comparable?




Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

It amazes me that our glorious US government never reveal their capabilities from the intelligence community. The US has been detecting radiation and nuclear disasters for over a half of century. The capabilities with today's current mechanisms can accurately enough to notify everyone in Japan of the most minute,  what has happen at the 2 Denai nuke power plants. The skies above are an information highway for those that withhold that information... this is why Wikileaks is such a threat. It shows both the illegal and immoral operations of the most powerful government on the planet, the US of A.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

The problems with the reactors is that they shutdown automatically with the earthquake, then the tsunami took out the backup generators that were ment to keep the rods cool.  Ever since, they have been improvising solutions to keep those rods cool, but the aftershocks (many magnitude 5)  have been taking out the improvised solutions one after another.  Basically, they are trying to keep a holding pattern and loosing ground, as at least one reactor has had a partial meltdown.

If they loose control and all 3 go, we are in for a world of hurt.

On the upside, that volcano (and maybe friends) going off may give Japan some extra real estate... 

-t

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Just heard an "alert" on Fox about another facility losing it's cooling system, not sure if that is one we've already reported...

And then there is this VoA Headline, less than an hour old, based on the earlier posted report quoting "Nuclear expert Joseph Cirincione of the Ploughshares Fund"
*Expert: Nuclear Radiation Could Spread Far Beyond Japan*
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...117899079.html

Is there any significance to seeing VoA reporting this gloom and doom?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> It amazes me that our glorious US government never reveal their capabilities from the intelligence community. The US has been detecting radiation and nuclear disasters for over a half of century. The capabilities with today's current mechanisms can accurate notify everyone of what has happen at the 2 Denai nuke power plants. The skies above are an information highway for those that withhold that information.



Somewhat related, but I bet NRO knows where most if not all of the sunken treasure is in the worlds oceans.  That's one solution to solving the debt that I never hear mentioned...

-t

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Really good music, any idea where its from? I love Industrial.
> 
> oh and..OMG PANIC
> 
> 9.11.01 Americans were killed.
> 
> 3.10.11 Japanese were killed.
> 
> Add them up and you﻿ get...
> ...


ROFL

----------


## heavenlyboy34

lolz ^^

----------


## s35wf

> Really good music, any idea where its from? I love Industrial.
> 
> oh and..OMG PANIC
> 
> 9.11.01 Americans were killed.
> 
> 3.10.11 Japanese were killed.
> 
> Add them up and you﻿ get...
> ...


The End of the Mayan Calandar is 11/28/2011!  See www.mayanmajix.com 
However DONOT BE AFRAID; Fear is the elites friend and our enemy.  Rather it is the rising of Consciousness/Awareness!  PEACE/LOVE/LIGHT! Think about things!

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Am hearing that 8 reactors are in crisis on Fox

----------


## angelatc

> Am hearing that 8 reactors are in crisis on Fox


I think the scariest part about that statement is that it means their resources are being stretched fer beyond anything that they could have imagined.

----------


## Anti Federalist



----------


## s35wf

Hawaii should be on alert for tsunami's!  I do hope that you also have a supply of iodine and/or potassium iodide!  If not get some now and be prepared!  I do hope & pray for the japanese people and that NO radiation comes to those of us in the US!

----------


## Kylie

> The level of coolant water in the Number Three reactor at the Fukushima Number One power plant dropped on Sunday, leaving the fuel rods exposed by two meters. The situation continued for at least until 3pm, possibly causing a partial melting of the rods. As a result, masses of hydrogen gas have accumulated in the inside top of the reactor building. The gas may cause an explosion similar to that which occurred at the Number One reactor on Saturday. Tokyo Electric Power Company, also known as TEPCO, is considering ways to remove the hydrogen from the structure. The Number One reactor and its containment structure are being pumped with seawater in an effort to secure cooling. The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says the amount of seawater should entirely fill the reactor structure, and that the building should be safe as long as the water flow continues. At the Number Two reactor, the amount of coolant continues to be lower than usual, and the pressure within the containment vessel is above normal. TEPCO attempted to restore the functioning of an electrical pressure-relief device by connecting a generator, but has not succeeded. The company is considering other means to relieve the reactor pressure, such as releasing air from the containment vessel. Inadequate cooling is also occurring at the Fukushima Number Two power plant, where the pumps to send seawater to cool the Number One, Two and Four reactors have failed due to the tsunami. TEPCO says it will try to restore the cooling systems by replacing the pump motors overnight.


http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?cid=29877

----------


## BamaAla

Anyone have any luck finding potassium iodide at their local stores? I hit all of the CVS, Wallgreens, and vitamin stores yesterday and came up empty.

----------


## s35wf

> Anyone have any luck finding potassium iodide at their local stores? I hit all of the CVS, Wallgreens, and vitamin stores yesterday and came up empty.


Order online OR atleast get a tincture of iodine solution from drugstore and put on lower abdomain aprx. the size of a quarter or round. Let seep in.  IF it disappears within 24 hours continue daily cuz it disappearing within 24 hours means that you are iodine deficient!

----------


## Anti Federalist

Speaking of Karma being a bitch, nukes out of control and Japan...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> The fallout wouldn't be the same for several reasons. First, and surprisingly, the bombs dropped on Japan were very clean, meaning that unless you were exposed to the initial blast, there was almost zero radiation exposure/fallout. Second, if there was a large scale release in Japan, it probably wouldn't be an energetic release, meaning that it wouldn't be an explosion, but a leak or breach in the containment. So it would be slow and probably only contain noble gases and very few of the heavier fission products.


Ugh, that is not comforting. For the vast majority of the world (other than at ground zero), a simple explosion with no radiation contamination is not a big deal. But a meltdown combined with a fire, open to the air, is the equivalent of a huge dirty bomb that can effect far more people...

----------


## TheState

> Ugh, that is not comforting. For the vast majority of the world (other than at ground zero), a simple explosion with no radiation contamination is not a big deal. But a meltdown combined with a fire, open to the air, is the equivalent of a huge dirty bomb that can effect far more people...


Possibly, but remember this isn't a plant like Chernobyl that is filled with flammable graphite. There is very little that can burn in the containment building. Also, the chance of any type of energetic event goes down with each passing minute. After the reactor shuts down, the decay power goes away following an exponential curve. So by now, the decay power is probably close to 0.2% 0.1% of total reactor power (so less than a Megawatt since the plant is 460 MW). The only possible source of an explosion would be a steam blast if the core was exposed, melted, then fell into standing water, but that is unlikely and even if it happened, there's still 2 levels of containment protecting the outside environment.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Possibly, but remember this isn't a plant like Chernobyl that is filled with flammable graphite. There is very little that can burn in the containment building. Also, the chance of any type of energetic event goes down with each passing minute. After the reactor shuts down, the decay power goes away following an exponential curve. So by now, the decay power is probably close to 0.2% 0.1% of total reactor power (so less than a Megawatt since the plant is 460 MW). The only possible source of an explosion would be a steam blast if the core was exposed, melted, then fell into standing water, but that is unlikely and even if it happened, there's still 2 levels of containment protecting the outside environment.


Isn't one reactor down to one level of containment?

----------


## TheState

> Isn't one reactor down to one level of containment?


It depends on the exact definition. BWR's have 2 outer containments that protect the reactor pressure vessel. So you have the reactor pressure vessel, then an inerted containment made of steel (it's full of the inert gas nitrogen), then there's another outer concrete building that just has regular air in it. It was that outer concrete building that was destroyed, so you still have the vessel itself and the steel inert containment.

So I would consider it 2 levels left bc PWR's only have the pressure vessel and a single outer concrete/steel containment and that's considered 2 levels.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Anyone have any luck finding potassium iodide at their local stores? I hit all of the CVS, Wallgreens, and vitamin stores yesterday and came up empty.


Iodine is useless for protecting your thyroid, you need KI.  a couple of sources are listed in my post here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...active-fallout

another is: http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...0IodideTablets

As to getting it locally, your best bet is a chemical supply house, if you have one in the area.  Sometimes surplus stores carry it and in some areas there are survival stores.

If you get the raw chemical, instructions on how to prep the solution and take it are in the chapter I pointed to in the article on protecting your thyroid in the above post.

As to mail order chem supply places, see my blog post.  Note that elemental can take months to ship.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.p...-Homeschoolers

There are other chem supply houses - google them.  Some will not sell to the public.

IOSAT (one of the brand names for KI) is available via mail order at least from CVS.  Local drug stores probably don't have it, but worth a call.  Just ask for the right thing.

http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/sh...oductId=190658

Amazon is sold out but has other KI products:
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...sl_m311v61d6_b

It looks like a lot of people are thinking the same thing as to getting some.

-t

----------


## One Last Battle!

Just to let you know, Iodine won't do anything to protect you from radiation. Potassium Iodide works because it has similarity to certain radioactive isotopes (IIRC) whereas regular Iodine doesn't.

Oh, and that chart on the spread of radioactivity was made by 4chan. Just in case you didn't figure it out. (First, the radiation wouldn't spread straight west and no where else like that, second, it would disperse to a far greater area, and third, 1000 rads or above results in 100% fatalities, meaning most of east Asia would be devoid of life in about a week, which is obviously absurd)

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Jetstream map for the next 5 days:

----------


## s35wf

> Just to let you know, Iodine won't do anything to protect you from radiation. Potassium Iodide works because it has similarity to certain radioactive isotopes (IIRC) whereas regular Iodine doesn't.
> 
> Oh, and that chart on the spread of radioactivity was made by 4chan. Just in case you didn't figure it out. (First, the radiation wouldn't spread straight west and no where else like that, second, it would disperse to a far greater area, and third, 1000 rads or above results in 100% fatalities, meaning most of east Asia would be devoid of life in about a week, which is obviously absurd)



NO Iodine will not keep radiation from falling on you from the rain; it is NOT as good or as strong as the potassium iodide K1 tablets; however IT IS BETTER THAN NOTHING!  WHY?  because when your thyroid gland has its fill of iodine, it will not seek out more iodine or iodide since it is FULL and will not attempt to absorb more! It WILL HELP!   Use it as a precaustion; NOt A CURE  the iodine or the potassium iodide MUST be Used BEFORE radiation contamination occurs!  

http://archive.arabnews.com/?page=9&...=28&m=2&y=2009

----------


## osan

> Agreed, you wouldn't get those kinds of numbers from an H bomb fallout pattern.



One additional reason the map is bunk is that the radiation exposure units would be Roentgens and not RADs.  If I am exposed to 1 Roentgen I will almost certainly have less than one RAD of absorbed radiation because not all of the charge is going to be absorbed and absorption is what counts.

----------


## Anti Federalist

KI can help protect the thyroid, and thus other internal organs, by blocking the absorption of radioactive isotopes of Iodine.

But, as has been noted, it is worthless as protection against the absorption of other heavy radioactive isotopes.

Prussian blue is indicated as a treatment for clearing radioactive Cesium-137 (a common byproduct of nuclear incidents such as this).

It is prescription only and fairly hard to come by.

*Prussian blue's ability to incorporate monocations makes it useful as a sequestering agent for certain heavy metal poisons. Pharmaceutical-grade Prussian blue in particular is used for patients who have ingested thallium or radioactive caesium. According to the International Atomic Energy Agency, an adult male can eat at least 10 grams of Prussian blue per day without serious harm. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has determined that the "500 mg Prussian blue capsules, when manufactured under the conditions of an approved New Drug Application (NDA), can be found safe and effective therapy" in certain poisoning cases.[14] Radiogardase (Prussian blue insoluble capsules [15]) is a commercial product for the removal of caesium-137 from the bloodstream.[16]*





> Iodine is useless for protecting your thyroid, you need KI.  a couple of sources are listed in my post here:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...active-fallout
> 
> another is: http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...0IodideTablets
> 
> As to getting it locally, your best bet is a chemical supply house, if you have one in the area.  Sometimes surplus stores carry it and in some areas there are survival stores.
> 
> If you get the raw chemical, instructions on how to prep the solution and take it are in the chapter I pointed to in the article on protecting your thyroid in the above post.
> ...





> Just to let you know, Iodine won't do anything to protect you from radiation. Potassium Iodide works because it has similarity to certain radioactive isotopes (IIRC) whereas regular Iodine doesn't.
> 
> Oh, and that chart on the spread of radioactivity was made by 4chan. Just in case you didn't figure it out. (First, the radiation wouldn't spread straight west and no where else like that, second, it would disperse to a far greater area, and third, 1000 rads or above results in 100% fatalities, meaning most of east Asia would be devoid of life in about a week, which is obviously absurd)

----------


## kahless

> First, the radiation wouldn't spread straight west and no where else like that


I would not discount the possibility of fallout reaching the US.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...117899079.html



> An American nuclear expert says radiation from Japan could spread across the Pacific and reach the United States if a complete meltdown occurs at a Japanese nuclear facility damaged as a result of last weeks earthquake and subsequent tsunami.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> One additional reason the map is bunk is that the radiation exposure units would be Roentgens and not RADs.  If I am exposed to 1 Roentgen I will almost certainly have less than one RAD of absorbed radiation because not all of the charge is going to be absorbed and absorption is what counts.


The company cited as the source *is* legitimate however.

http://www.australian-radiation-services.com.au/

They are an industrial/medical radiation mitigation company.

I'm surprised their server hasn't crashed yet.

----------


## One Last Battle!

> I would not discount the possibility of fallout reaching the US.
> 
> http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...117899079.html


Oh, it COULD, it just wouldn't reach levels of radiation in excess of 750 rads, which would basically result in 90%-100% fatalities.

----------


## osan

> I think the scariest part about that statement is that it means their resources are being stretched fer beyond anything that they could have imagined.


Scarier still is how unfathomably stupid the Jap. government is to have allowed ANY nuclear energy in their territory.  It's the god damned ring of $#@!ing fire for heaven's sake.  Do they think there is ANY containment vessel they could build that an earthquake or volcano could not obliterate in an instant, were it strong enough? Earth == BIG.  Reactor vessel == SMALL.  Do the math.

There is no practical limit to the potential force of a quake.  What if it had been a 10 - an order of magnitude stronger than it was?  An 11?  There would likely be nothing left of any of those facilities.  What would they then do?  They would make the Japanese funeral industry very wealthy.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Japan real time radiation map:
http://www.bousai.ne.jp/eng/

----------


## Carson

> The company cited as the source *is* legitimate however.
> 
> http://www.australian-radiation-services.com.au/
> 
> They are an industrial/medical radiation mitigation company.
> 
> I'm surprised their server hasn't crashed yet.



I went all over that site earlier and found nothing like the picture. I started thinking maybe someone just grabbed their logo and used it in the picture to give make it look legitimate.

----------


## osan

> The company cited as the source *is* legitimate however.
> 
> http://www.australian-radiation-services.com.au/
> 
> They are an industrial/medical radiation mitigation company.
> 
> I'm surprised their server hasn't crashed yet.



So what are they selling?  Smells like panic to me.  Even if we convert to Roentgens, which is more or less equivalent to RADS anyway as I recall, 750 over the US?  Seems unlikely to me.  Of course, I studied all this crap 30 years ago... Maybe I am not recalling correctly, but is does seem fishy to me.

EDIT: good point  made that some ninny may have taken the company's logo and pasted it on to the map.  Didn't mean to defame company if indeed that is the case.  Apologies.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> There is no practical limit to the potential force of a quake.  What if it had been a 10 - an order of magnitude stronger than it was?  An 11?  There would likely be nothing left of any of those facilities.  What would they then do?  They would make the Japanese funeral industry very wealthy.


http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.n...256A7D0024F5BD

When you attend a funeral,
It is sad to think that sooner or
Later those you love will do the same for you.
And you may have thought it tragic,
Not to mention other adjec-
Tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.
But don't you worry.
No more ashes, no more sackcloth.
And an armband made of black cloth
Will some day never more adorn a sleeve.
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too,
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.

And we will all go together when we go.
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we all will go together when we go.

We will all go together when we go.
All suffuse with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance,
Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go.

Oh we will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be french fried potatoes by and by.
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie,
Yes, we will all fry together when we fry.

Down by the old maelstrom,
There'll be a storm before the calm.

And we will all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation
In that grand incineration,
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.

Oh we will all char together when we char.
And let there be no moaning of the bar.
Just sing out a Te Deum
When you see that I.C.B.M.,
And the party will be "come as you are."

Oh we will all burn together when we burn.
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn.
When it's time for the fallout
And Saint Peter calls us all out,
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn.

You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas.
Go directly, do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dolla's.

And we will all go together when we go.
Ev'ry Hottentot and ev'ry Eskimo.
When the air becomes uranious,
And we will all go simultaneous.
Yes we all will go together
When we all go together,
Yes we all will go together when we go. 

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs

----------


## kahless

> Japan real time radiation map:
> removed


never mind.

btw - I now feel badly about clicking on that link since probably should leave as much bandwidth available for those that actually need it locally.

----------


## Carson

Japan: The Fourth misfortune…VOLCANO ‘AWAKES’ AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE

Kind of misleading as it woke up before. Still it has a good little video.

----------


## Carson

I saw this link on Fark.

19 more exposed to nuke radiations in Japan ( exceeded up to 882 micro sievert )


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_...de_(radiation)

----------


## s35wf

> A couple of cities listed as "under survey".  What reason would they have to not list the readings unless they are hiding the actual value.
> 
> btw - I now feel badly about clicking on that link since probably should leave as much bandwidth available for those that actually need it locally.


The one city is the fallout city ( F where nuke reactors are) the other city beginning with M is the town that lost 1/2 of its citizens due to tsanumi

----------


## TheState

> I saw this link on Fark.
> 
> 19 more exposed to nuke radiations in Japan ( exceeded up to 882 micro sievert )


For comparison, 882 micro sievert = 0.0882 rem. A CT scan can be as high as 1-10 rem.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Yeah, I did the same and should have it clear that I can find no reference to that chart whatsoever.

It appears that is the case, that some /b/tard just happened across their name and logo and nicked it for the map.




> I went all over that site earlier and found nothing like the picture. I started thinking maybe someone just grabbed their logo and used it in the picture to give make it look legitimate.





> So what are they selling?  Smells like panic to me.  Even if we convert to Roentgens, which is more or less equivalent to RADS anyway as I recall, 750 over the US?  Seems unlikely to me.  Of course, I studied all this crap 30 years ago... Maybe I am not recalling correctly, but is does seem fishy to me.
> 
> EDIT: good point  made that some ninny may have taken the company's logo and pasted it on to the map.  Didn't mean to defame company if indeed that is the case.  Apologies.

----------


## angelatc

IN another thread, people said 4-Chan put that chart out there.

----------


## Texan4Life

> For comparison, 882 micro sievert = 0.0882 rem. A CT scan can be as high as 1-10 rem.


thx for putting it into perspective... but what about exposure duration? Does it build up in the body?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> For comparison, 882 micro sievert = 0.0882 rem. A CT scan can be as high as 1-10 rem.


This has been wildly confusing for me.

1 Sievert = 100 Röntgen equivalent man (rem)

Why the need for two decimal equivalent measures?

God Damn these metric booby traps straight to hell.

----------


## squarepusher

why can't they jsut build the reactor over the ocean, so if something happens it just drops down and cooled immediately?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> why can't they jsut build the reactor over the ocean, so if something happens it just drops down and cooled immediately?


It's my understanding that the Nimitz class aircraft carriers have just such a system, where the reactor compartment is sealed and the core can be explosively jettisoned from the vessel in the event of a "meltdown".

----------


## angelatc

> thx for putting it into perspective... but what about exposure duration? Does it build up in the body?


I found this to be informative: http://wormme.com/2011/03/12/incalcuable-danger/

----------


## Matt Collins

> It's my understanding that the Nimitz class aircraft carriers have just such a system, where the reactor compartment is sealed and the core can be explosively jettisoned from the vessel in the event of a "meltdown".


Reminds me of Star Trek The Next Generation ;-)

----------


## cswake

Ouch, statisticians might be to blame...

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...-sisters-in-us




> The company said in the documents that 7.9 was the highest magnitude for which they tested the safety for their No. 1 and No. 2 nuclear power plants in Fukushima.
> Simultaneous seismic activity along the three tectonic plates in the sea east of the plants—the epicenter of Friday's quake—wouldn't surpass 7.9, according to the company's presentation.
> The company based its models partly on previous seismic activity in the area, including a 7.0 earthquake in May 1938 and two simultaneous earthquakes of 7.3 and 7.5 on November 5 of the same year.

----------


## osan

> This has been wildly confusing for me.
> 
> 1 Sievert = 100 Röntgen equivalent man (rem)
> 
> Why the need for two decimal equivalent measures?
> 
> God Damn these metric booby traps straight to hell.


It's worse than that.  Lessee... we have Roentgens, RADs REMs, Sieverts, Coulombs, Grays, Becquerels, Curies...

I'm sure I'm missing some, too.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Watching the latest on Japan's 

Watch NHK World Live TV from Japan.
Info about NHK World: Short English spoken news updates.

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/6810.htm

1. They're expecting a 7+ magnitude quake by Thursday
2. 22 people have tested positive for radiation exposure and going through decontamination and treatment.
3. Severe lack of electricity, TECO, will be conduct rotating power outages through Tokyo Metro and 8 prefectures.
4. Railway service has been suspended on many lines and systems.
5. Bank of Japan supplies a record $87 BILLION in liquidity Monday morning
6. TOYOTA SUSPENDS ALL PRODUCTION @ ALL PLANTS
7. MITSUBISHI, SUZUKI, NISSAN ALL SUSPEND PRODUCTIONS @ ALL PLANTS/FACTORIES 

8. Central Tokyo  hit by aftershocks and tremors..

NIKKEI: 9751

Down -502.87  (-4.91%)

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

White Smoke rising out of #1 Reactor

Explosion of number #3 reactor reported by NHK World Live 20 minutes ago.

----------


## Carson

> It's worse than that.  Lessee... we have Roentgens, RADs REMs, Sieverts, Coulombs, Grays, Becquerels, Curies...
> 
> I'm sure I'm missing some, too.


BED = Banana equivalent dose

Bwa ha ha...is there no end?

I just pigged out on a bunch of bananas. They had some Yellow ones at the store! Got more radiation from them that from Fukushima Power Plant. Knock on wood.

----------


## Carson

> White Smoke rising out of #1 Reactor
> 
> Explosion of number #3 reactor reported by NHK World Live 20 minutes ago.


http://www.livestation.com/channels/...-world-english

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> http://www.livestation.com/channels/...-world-english


 Yeah, posted the NHK news link a half a dozen ties over the past 72hrs. latest link post #325

----------


## Carson

> Yeah, posted the NHK news link a half a dozen ties over the past 72hrs. latest link post #325


Sorry Hollywood. May of been through one of your links I ended up on it. If so thanks. It's seems to be hopping now.

----------


## TheState

Video of hydrogen blast at reactor 3, http://www.zerohedge.com/article/vid...or-3-explosion

----------


## Anti Federalist

Mar 13, 10:56 PM EDT


*Hydrogen explosion at stricken Japanese nuke plant* 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

TOKYO (AP) -- Japan's chief cabinet secretary says a hydrogen explosion has occurred at Unit 3 of Japan's stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant. The blast was similar to an earlier one at a different unit of the facility.

Yukio Edano says people within a 12-mile (20-kilometer) radius were ordered inside following Monday's. AP journalists felt the explosion 30 miles (50 kilometers) away.

Edano says the reactor's inner containment vessel holding nuclear rods is intact, allaying some fears of the risk to the environment and public.

The No. 3 Unit reactor had been under emergency watch for a possible explosion as pressure built up there following a hydrogen blast Saturday in the facility's Unit 1.

More than 180,000 people have evacuated the area.

----------


## MozoVote

This morning the news was saying that they were trying a more cautious method of cooling the #3 reactor, after witnessing the #1 reactor explode. [shrug]

----------


## RSLudlum

> This morning the news was saying that they were trying a more cautious method of cooling the #3 reactor, after witnessing the #1 reactor explode. [shrug]


This article that Bob Wenzel linked to on EconomicPolicyJournal.com speaks about the possible reasons for the explosion(s) and why the facilities are actually built with this in mind.

http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/20...lear-reactors/



> At some stage during this venting, the explosion occurred. The explosion took place outside of the third containment (our “last line of defense”), and the reactor building. Remember that the reactor building has no function in keeping the radioactivity contained. It is not entirely clear yet what has happened, but this is the likely scenario: The operators decided to vent the steam from the pressure vessel not directly into the environment, but into the space between the third containment and the reactor building (to give the radioactivity in the steam more time to subside). The problem is that at the high temperatures that the core had reached at this stage, water molecules can “disassociate” into oxygen and hydrogen – an explosive mixture. And it did explode, outside the third containment, damaging the reactor building around. It was that sort of explosion, but inside the pressure vessel (because it was badly designed and not managed properly by the operators) that lead to the explosion of Chernobyl. This was never a risk at Fukushima. The problem of hydrogen-oxygen formation is one of the biggies when you design a power plant (if you are not Soviet, that is), so the reactor is build and operated in a way it cannot happen inside the containment. It happened outside, which was not intended but a possible scenario and OK, because it did not pose a risk for the containment.

----------


## Matt Collins

> BED = Banana equivalent dose
> 
> Bwa ha ha...is there no end?
> 
> I just pigged out on a bunch of bananas. They had some Yellow ones at the store! Got more radiation from them that from Fukushima Power Plant. Knock on wood.



*Banana* may also refer to:

BANANA, an acronym for Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

----------


## Anti Federalist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)

That's what's left of the core, fuel and concrete in a very, very, worst case scenario of a loss of coolant accident.

That's what you cannot have come in contact with water, outside of a pressurized containment vessel.

----------


## Anti Federalist

The pressure vessel at TMI was able to contain this molten mass without a breach.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

U.S. Carrier Ronald Reagan exposed to radiation cloud


This is not good.

----------


## Carson

> U.S. Carrier Ronald Reagan exposed to radiation cloud
> 
> 
> This is not good.



I read somewhere they were evacuating out of the area but I assumed it was the tsunami threat.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> I read somewhere they were evacuating out of the area but I assumed it was the tsunami threat.



Another thing to think about.... This proves that things are much worse then what Japan has been reporting. This was also before the #3 reactor explosion which looks much worse happened. At this point I think we can quite convincingly assume that anything Japan, or the power company are now saying is not true. I sure as hell hope Obama is up and making a 1am phone call over this.

----------


## Carson

> Another thing to think about.... This proves that things are much worse then what Japan has been reporting. This was also before the #3 reactor explosion which looks much worse happened. At this point I think we can quite convincingly assume that anything Japan, or the power company are now saying is not true. I sure as hell hope Obama is up and making a 1am phone call over this.


Number three really blew, didn't it.

----------


## Matt Collins

> U.S. Carrier Ronald Reagan exposed to radiation cloud
> 
> 
> This is not good.


There is something seriously wrong there. 

They should have sensors that detect this. And they should've initiated their NBC precautions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC_protection_system


I think someone's head will roll in the Navy for this.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> U.S. Carrier Ronald Reagan exposed to radiation cloud
> 
> 
> This is not good.


Explosion of #3 reactor outer containment much worse than #1.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

US warships, planes move from Japan's nuclear-crisis coast
======

I am getting fumed over this. Japan has straight up lied about this whole thing, this is proof for sure. If Obama does not have words with them, and then with the American public it shows that OUR government does not care.

----------


## Carson

> US warships, planes move from Japan's nuclear-crisis coast
> ======
> 
> I am getting fumed over this. Japan has straight up lied about this whole thing, this is proof for sure. If Obama does not have words with them, and then with the American public it shows that OUR government does not care.


Personally I hope we butt out. Our country needs to get back to  minding our own business.

Someone posted this list on Fark for some reason.

List of U.S. military installations in Japan

Air Force:

■Camp Chitose, Chitose, Hokkaido
■Kadena Air Base, Okinawa Prefecture
■Kadena Ammunition Storage Area, Okinawa Prefecture
■Okuma Recreational Facility, Okinawa Prefecture
■Yaedake Communication Site, Okinawa Prefecture
■Misawa Air Base, Aomori Prefecture
■Yokota Air Base, Fussa, Tokyo
■Fuchu Communications Station, Fuchu, Tokyo
■Tama Service Annex, Inagi, Tokyo
■Yugi Communication Site, Hachioji, Tokyo
■Camp Asaka AFN Transmitter Site, Saitama Prefecture
■Tokorozawa Transmitter Site, Saitama Prefecture
■Owada Communication Site, Saitama Prefecture

Army:

■Fort Buckner, Okinawa Prefecture
■Army POL Depots, Okinawa Prefecture
■White Beach Area, Okinawa Prefecture
■Naha Port Facility, Okinawa Prefecture (return after relocation to the Urasoe Pier area)
■Torii Station, Okinawa Prefecture
■Tengan Pier, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Zama, Zama, Kanagawa
■Yokohama North Dock, Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Sagami General Depot, Sagamihara, Kanagawa
■Sagamihara Housing Area, Sagamihara, Kanagawa
■Akizuki Ammunition Depot, Hiroshima Prefecture
■Hiro Ammunition Depot, Hiroshima Prefecture
■Kawakami Ammunition Depot, Hiroshima Prefecture
■Hardy Barracks, Minato, Tokyo

Marine Corps:

■Camp Smedley D. Butler, Okinawa Prefecture, Yamaguchi Prefectures. (Although these camps are dispersed throughout Okinawa and the rest of Japan they are all under the heading of Camp Smedley D. Butler):
■Camp McTureous, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Courtney, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Foster, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Kinser, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Hansen, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Schwab, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Gonsalves (Jungle Warfare Training Center), Okinawa Prefecture
■Kin Blue Beach Training Area, Okinawa Prefecture
■Kin Red Beach Training Area, Okinawa Prefecture
■NSGA Hanza
■Higashionna Ammunition Storage Point II
■Henoko Ordnance Ammunition Depot
■Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, Okinawa Prefecture (return after the MCAS Futenma relocates to Camp Schwab)
■Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni
■Camp Fuji, Shizuoka Prefecture
■Numazu Training Area, Shizuoka Prefecture
■Ie Jima Auxiliary Airfield, Okinawa Prefecture
■Tsuken Jima Training Area, Okinawa Prefecture

Navy:

■Naval Air Facility Atsugi, Ayase, Kanagawa
■United States Fleet Activities Sasebo, Sasebo, Nagasaki
■United States Fleet Activities Yokosuka, Yokosuka, Kanagawa
■Urago Ammunition Depot, Yokosuka, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Tsurumi POL Depot, Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Naval Housing Annex Negishi, Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Naval Transmitter Station Totsuka, Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Naval Support Facility Kamiseya, Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Tomioka Storage Area, Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture
■Naval Housing Annex Ikego, Zushi, Kanagawa
■White Beach Area, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Shields, Okinawa Prefecture
■Camp Lester, Okinawa Prefecture (return after the Naval Hospital relocates to Camp Foster)
■Awase Communication Station, Okinawa Prefecture
■New Sanno Hotel, Tokyo

----------


## Brian4Liberty

SOP. Downplaying and covering up are pretty normal in these situations. Not that it's a good thing, but it's the nature of the beast.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Personally I hope we butt out. Our country needs to get back to  minding our own business.


I completely agree.

However in this case, in a worst case scenario, the meltdown of these reactors and leakage of radioactive material into the upper atmosphere could indeed directly affect the United States mainland.

If it is at that point, or if it is on it's way to being at that point, then I would have no problem with the US military stepping in to keep that situation from happening so that the US is protected against massive fallout.

Defending the US population is a legitimate use of the military and radioactive fallout is indeed a threat that needs to be defended against.

----------


## AGRP

How do we know if were going to get radiation?

Is there a private site that monitors radiation that we can trust?

----------


## Carson

> I completely agree.
> 
> However in this case, in a worst case scenario, the meltdown of these reactors and leakage of radioactive material into the upper atmosphere could indeed directly affect the United States mainland.
> 
> If it is at that point, or if it is on it's way to being at that point, then I would have no problem with the US military stepping in to keep that situation from happening so that the US is protected against massive fallout.
> 
> Defending the US population is a legitimate use of the military and radioactive fallout is indeed a threat that needs to be defended against.


You've got a point. I remember a simpler time when all we needed to do to see if the Russians were doing any nuclear testing was to measure the radiation in the air and subtract ours.

----------


## Carson

> How do we know if were going to get radiation?
> 
> Is there a private site that monitors radiation that we can trust?


I'm saving readings off of this website.

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

They're involved with the glorious DHS...



https://imaacweb.llnl.gov/web/signIn.html

NIKKEI: 9620  closed down 6%


Bank of Japan adds liquidity  today's total equivalent :* $183 BILLION Japan's PPT*

WOW... BoJ just announced further easing. Increasing Asset Purchase Funds to *$40 TRILLION YEN ($1/2 Trillion USD)!* 

http://www.boj.or.jp/en/announcement...1/k110314a.pdf

----------


## TER

Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, have mercy upon the people in Japan and grant them strength and resolve through these cataclysmic times.  May they eventually find hope and ultimately, Your peace.  In Your loving compassion for mankind, prevent any more catastrophes from occurring to these suffering souls.  Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Now Reactor #2 Cooling has failed.......

----------


## TER

_"God is our refuge and power, very much a helper in afflictions that befall us.
           Therefore we will not fear, when the earth is troubled and the mountains be transposed into hearts of seas.
Their waters roared and were troubled; the mountains were troubled by his force."_
                                                        (Psalm 45)

----------


## Reason

Where are people getting the latest & most reliable info on this issue as it develops?

----------


## WorldonaString

> Where are people getting the latest & most reliable info on this issue as it develops?


thats what I'd like to know to.  I've been using Al Jazeera if for no other reason than their live stream works well behind the great firewall.  Reddit can be good too sometimes.

----------


## devil21

> thats what I'd like to know to.  I've been using Al Jazeera if for no other reason than their live stream works well behind the great firewall.  Reddit can be good too sometimes.


Ive been bouncing around between RPF, ATS, msm sites, and Yahoo front page to keep abreast of developments.

Without fail I read about it first at ATS though.  They seem to get the news before others for some reason.  They were talking about the nuke plants a day before the msm even mentioned them.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Anyone think GE's stock is going to tank?

(they built the reactors)

----------


## Carson

> Where are people getting the latest & most reliable info on this issue as it develops?


I was thinking last night that what I was reading in threads on Fark.com was about four hours sooner than what I was getting on the news. It was the weekend though.

http://www.fark.com/

----------


## Kylie

> Situation Update No. 23
> On 14.03.2011 at 04:25 GMT+2
> 
> A hydrogen explosion occurred Monday morning at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant’s troubled No. 3 reactor, the government’s nuclear safety agency said. The 11:01 a.m. incident came after a hydrogen explosion hit the No. 1 reactor at the same plant Saturday, and prompted the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency to urge residents within a 20-kilometer radius to take shelter inside buildings. It also followed a report by Tokyo Electric Power Co., the plant’s operator, to the government earlier in the day that the radiation level at the plant had again exceeded the legal limit and pressure in the container of the No. 3 reactor had increased. The Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant has been shut down since a magnitude 9.0 quake struck northeastern and eastern Japan on Friday, but some of its reactors have lost their cooling functions, leading to brief rises in the radiation level over the weekend. On Monday, radiation at the plant’s premises rose over the benchmark limit of 500 micro sievert per hour at two locations, measuring 751 micro sievert at the first location at 2:20 a.m. and 650 at the second at 2:40 a.m., according to the report. The hourly amounts are more than half the 1,000 micro sievert to which people are usually exposed in one year.
> 
> The maximum level detected so far around the plant is 1,557.5 micro sievert logged Sunday. The utility had been pouring seawater into the plant’s No. 1 and No. 3 reactors to help cool their cores, which are believed to have partially melted after part of the fuel rods were no longer covered by coolant water when levels fell following the quake. The seawater injection stopped around 1 a.m. due to the shortage of water left in tanks, but resumed for No. 3 reactor at 3:20 a.m., according to the nuclear safety agency. The halt of coolant water injection apparently caused rising pressure in the reactor container and an increase in the radiation level at the plant, the agency said. TEPCO at one point planned to release radioactive steam from the No. 3 reactor container to depressurize it and ordered workers to vacate the site. But as the pressure later lowered, workers resumed operations at the site, according to the agency. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said pressure in the No. 1 reactor container has been stable and seawater injection for the reactor will resume later.



Newest update: 




> Situation Update No. 24
> On 14.03.2011 at 12:16 GMT+2
> 
> The second hydrogen blast in three days rocked Japan’s earthquake-stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant today, sending a massive column of smoke into the air and injuring 11 people. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said four army personnel and seven nuclear power plant workers were hurt when Unit 3 exploded. Mr Edano said one of the workers was seriously injured but still conscious and the four military staff were only slightly hurt and had already returned to their unit. Later in the day, another reactor at the plant lost its cooling capacity, raising the risk of another explosion.




And yes, we did get something with our aircraft carrier: 




> Seventeen U.S. Navy crew members have been contaminated with low-levels of radiation during disaster relief missions in Japan, military officials said Monday. The radioactivity was detected when the service members returned to the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan aboard three helicopters. They were treated with soap and water and their clothes were discarded. "No further contamination was detected," the military said. The helicopters were also decontaminated. The U.S. 7th Fleet, positioned about 100 miles northeast of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to deliver aid to Japan's coastal region, moved its ships further away due to "airborne radioactivity" and contamination found on its planes. The military noted, however, that the level of contamination was very low, and the ship movement was merely a precaution. "For perspective, the maximum potential radiation dose received by any ship's force personnel aboard the ship when it passed through the area was less than the radiation exposure received from about one month of exposure to natural background radiation from sources such as rocks, soil, and the sun," the Navy said. The Fukushima nuclear power plant suffered a second explosion Sunday. At least six workers at the plant were injured in the blast, officials said. A smaller explosion rocked the plant on Saturday. Radioactive steam was vented recently from the plant in order to ease pressure on the reactors and prevent another meltdown, CNN reported. It is believe that a meltdown previously occurred in at least one of the reactors in the last few days. "We remain totally committed to our mission of providing assistance to the people of Japan," Navy spokesman Jeff Davis said.




There are now 4 separate "nuke" issues in Japan. I sure hope they can keep the lid on it all. 

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Just found these comments on one of the "expert" pieces - 

http://www.businessinsider.com/japan...-risk-2011-3-1




> Wile E. Quixote on Mar 14, 4:35 AM said:
> Here's a link to the CV for Dr. Joseph Oehmen. 
> 
> http://lean.mit.edu/index.php?option...845&Itemid=816
> 
> You will note that nowhere in this CV is any mention of degrees in nuclear engineering or nuclear physics. Instead the CV mentions that:
> 
> He wrote his PhD thesis at the ETH Zurich on the topic of Supply Chain Risk Management with a focus on China. In his research, he investigated and optimized the integration and cooperation between Swiss companies and their Chinese suppliers.
> Josef worked as Assistant to the CTO of SIG Holding AG and in parallel pursued an international MBA at the Collège des Ingénieurs in Paris. He was intensely involved in corporate-wide Technology and Innovation Management and was responsible for technology projects. He studied mechanical engineering at the Technical University of Munich, majoring in Product Development and Production Management. He wrote his diploma thesis at LAI on Risk Management in Product Development. 
> ...


and




> Hannah Miyamoto, BSCE (URL) on Mar 14, 7:14 AM said:
> Overall, "Oehmen" is both condescending and a fool. I hold a B.S. in Civil Engineering from Univ. of Minn., 1986, passed the Engineer in Training exam (EIT) , and have been studying nuclear energy issues for almost 30 years.
> 
> 1. The cores in Fukushima 1, unit 1 and 3 are definitely melting, because they released enough hydrogen to blow up the buildings. 
> BTW, Unit 3 appears to have been a bigger explosion, because most of building cladding seems to be gone. Unit 1 explosion (Friday, US Time) seems to have just been the release of the "Blowout Panels" on the reactor building.
> 
> 2. Not only are the cores melting, but TEPCO is definitely not able to pump in enough water to cool the residual heat in the cores.
> 
> 3. Since the cores are melting, they have the potential to not only slump on the bottom of the containment (Three Mile Island), but melt through the bottom of the containment vessel (Chernobyl). I know that the Chernobyl reactor did not have a strong containment system, but the potential is still there.
> ...


It still seems that the risk to North America is slight, due to the size of the Pacific...

----------


## TheState

> 3. Since the cores are melting, they have the potential to not only slump on the bottom of the containment (Three Mile Island), but melt through the bottom of the containment vessel (Chernobyl). I know that the Chernobyl reactor did not have a strong containment system, but the potential is still there.


This is incorrect. Chernobyl was not caused by the core melting through the containment vessel. Chernobyl was a steam explosion, caused by power levels spiking uncontrollably, that literally blew apart the reactor (and Chernobyl had no containment). Fukushima is a completely different reactor design and scenario. 




> 6. Although there is no potential for "radiation sickness" like at Hiroshima, the people of North America can rightfully expect to not be exposed to an undue amount of radiation. The U.S. standard of 1 mrem should be an absolute maximum from this emergency.


For some perspective, most people (who don't live at high elevations) get around 300 mrem a year. So 1 mrem is about what you get in a day anyway.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> This is incorrect. Chernobyl was not caused by the core melting through the containment vessel. Chernobyl was a steam explosion, caused by power levels spiking uncontrollably, that literally blew apart the reactor (and Chernobyl had no containment). Fukushima is a completely different reactor design and scenario. 
> 
> 
> 
> For some perspective, most people (who don't live at high elevations) get around 300 mrem a year. So 1 mrem is about what you get in a day anyway.


The author of the comment did not talk of an explosion, just a slumping that could then melt through the containment...

I have seen some of the analysis depend on a "core catcher", yet I see these comments on a the main blog for Dr J. Oehmen's analysis...





> http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/20...lear-reactors/
> Peter says:
> March 13, 2011 at 8:42 pm
> Fukushima does not have any core catcher? Or am I wrong?
> Bernd St. says:
> March 13, 2011 at 11:02 pm
> You are right.
> There is no core catcher.


How would the lack of a core catcher change the analysis?

----------


## TheState

> How would the lack of a core catcher change the analysis?


Truthfully, I don't think I know of any light water reactors that have core catchers. They are more popular in fast reactors (like sodium cooled reactors) where there's a chance of re-criticality if the fuel melted. In a light water reactor, there is no chance of re-criticality when the fuel melts. Also, since this is a BWR reactor, the control rods are inserted from the bottom of the core, so there is a lot of material in the bottom of the vessel. Let me look through my notes and see if I can find a good picture.

Edit: here's a pic. As you can see, there is a lot going on below the core region, so the molten fuel has a ways to travel to reach the bottom of the vessel.

----------


## YumYum

*Stricken Japan nuclear plant rocked by 2nd blast*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_...pphu-container




> "Quick tutorial on why hydrogen explosions can occur in these reactors:
> 
> if you drop magnesium into water, it produces hydrogen, because the oxygen in the water (H2O) bonds to the magnesium, and releases the hydrogen as a gas, H2. That hydrogen gas is explosive when the right (wrong?) amount of H2 mixes with air.
> 
> A similar chemical reaction occurs with many other metals, but with most metals the reaction only happens rapidly when the temperature is very high.
> 
> Thus, pouring water onto very hot metal within the reactor releases hydrogen gas,
> which can build up to explosive levels.
> 
> ...

----------


## specsaregood

Everybody is a effing nuclear scientist on the internet.

----------


## Ranger29860

> Everybody is a effing nuclear scientist on the internet.


Exactly what i was thinking reading all this.

----------


## YumYum

> Everybody is a effing nuclear scientist on the internet.


Who needs college when we have youtube? *: )*

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Another "expert" weighs in

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

And The Grey Lady

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo....html?src=tptw




> WASHINGTON — As the scale of Japan’s nuclear crisis begins to come to light, experts in Japan and the United States say the country is now facing a cascade of accumulating problems that suggest that radioactive releases of steam from the crippled plants could go on for weeks or even months
> ... 
> On Monday, an explosion blew the roof off the second reactor, not damaging the core, officials said, but presumably leaking more radiation.
> 
> Later Monday, the government said cooling systems at a third reactor had failed. The Kyodo news agency reported that the damaged fuel rods at the third reactor had been temporarily exposed, increasing the risk of overheating.
> ...
> So far, Japanese officials have said the melting of the nuclear cores in the two plants is assumed to be “partial,” and the amount of radioactivity measured outside the plants, though twice the level Japan considers safe, has been relatively modest.
> 
> But Pentagon officials reported Sunday that helicopters flying 60 miles from the plant picked up small amounts of radioactive particulates — still being analyzed, but presumed to include cesium-137 and iodine-121 — suggesting widening environmental contamination.
> ...

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Before you even listen to any "experts" or "officials" remember a few things......

Russia was not the ones that reported on Chernobyl it was Sweden.
The Levees were secure and safe said the U.S. and State governments shortly after Katrina
The Gulf of Mexico oil spill was only 500 barrels according to BP in the first days.

Use your own judgement.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Before you even listen to any "experts" or "officials" remember a few things......


Don't trust the media or the government.

----------


## Danke

"But all weekend, after a series of intense interchanges between Tokyo and Washington and the arrival of the first American nuclear experts in Japan, officials said they were beginning to get a clearer picture of what went wrong over the past three days. And as one senior official put it, “under the best scenarios, this isn’t going to end anytime soon.”


I think we should monitor what the family members of these nuclear experts are doing.  And act accordingly.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Something seems to be up.  Fox just said they had been looking at some new info / talking to experts the past hour and would bring an update at the top of the hour.

The phrase "possible catastrophic meltdown" was mentioned.  Hype or are things going south?

-t

----------


## Todd

> Something seems to be up.  Fox just said they had been looking at some new info / talking to experts the past hour and would bring an update at the top of the hour.
> 
> The phrase "possible catastrophic meltdown" was mentioned.  Hype or are things going south?
> 
> -t



"never believe anything until it's officially denied"

----------


## pcosmar

> "never believe anything until it's officially denied"


LoL

----------


## Matt Collins

> Hype or are things going south?


It could go either way.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> "never believe anything until it's officially denied"


LoL that ^^^^

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

synopsis: 

2 reactors at risk of total meltdown. (the nuke expert said he doubts this will happen, but doesn't know how thick the floor is)

Could be looking at months worth of radioactive fallout.

First mention that we might see fallout in Alaska, Hawaii and the West coast.

Basically, they are loosing control.

Oh Joy! 

-t

----------


## UtahApocalypse

So in the White House Press conference he said.....

"There is no threat to the United States" and then followed that with "We do not haver all of the details as to what has occurred." 

So how can you tell us there is not threat without knowing what has even happened????

----------


## YumYum

> So in the White House Press conference he said.....
> 
> "There is no threat to the United States" and then followed that with "We do not haver all of the details as to what has occurred." 
> 
> So how can you tell us there is not threat without knowing what has even happened????


Because the Jet Stream doesn't flow over the White House?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> So in the White House Press conference he said.....
> 
> "There is no threat to the United States" and then followed that with "We do not haver all of the details as to what has occurred." 
> 
> *So how can you tell us there is not threat without knowing what has even happened*????


You can't.

It's called DoubleThink.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Before you even listen to any "experts" or "officials" remember a few things......
> 
> Russia was not the ones that reported on Chernobyl it was Sweden.
> The Levees were secure and safe said the U.S. and State governments shortly after Katrina
> The Gulf of Mexico oil spill was only 500 barrels according to BP in the first days.
> 
> Use your own judgement.


The air at Ground Zero after 9/11 was safe to breathe.

----------


## jtstellar

what's a good/safe daily intake of iodine via idoral for supplement purposes.. just bought some 12.5 mg tablets

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Operators won't rule out nuclear meltdown
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...15/3163913.htm

The fuel rods in the No.2 reactor at the quake-damaged plant are again "fully exposed", boosting fears of an eventual partial meltdown.

Air pressure inside the reactor at the Fukushima No 1. plant rose suddenly when the air flow gauge was accidentally turned off, operator TEPCO said early Tuesday (local time).

That blocked the flow of cooling water into the reactor, leading to full exposure of the rods about 11pm on Monday, it said.

"We are not optimistic but I think we can inject water once we can reopen the valve and lower air pressure," a TEPCO official told reporters.
[...]
Late on Monday, TEPCO said a fuel rod meltdown in the No.2 reactor could not be ruled out after water levels dropped sharply.


Meltdown threat after hydrogen blast at Japanese nuclear plant 
http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...?homepage=true

Water levels dropped precipitously on Monday inside a stricken Japanese nuclear reactor, twice leaving the uranium fuel rods completely exposed and raising the threat of a meltdown, hours after a hydrogen explosion tore through the building housing a different reactor.

Water levels were restored after the first decrease but the rods remained exposed late Monday night after the second episode, increasing the risk of the spread of radiation and the potential for an eventual meltdown. 
[...]
A top official said the fuel rods in all three of the most troubled nuclear reactors appeared to be melting.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

It would be good to send some US Industry experts too (in addition to people from a regulatory commission who want to "calm fears"). Wonder how long it took for the Japanese to ask for outside help? Not to start a controversy (and everyone is an individual), but as a gross generalization, the Japanese have a stereotype of a rigid mindset, and are not know for flexibility or thinking "outside the box". This emergency needs a lot of creative thinking...




> The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Saturday it has sent two experts to Japan, where authorities were seeking to calm fears of a reactor meltdown in the aftermath of a massive earthquake.
> 
> http://news.discovery.com/earth/japa...on-110312.html

----------


## Todd

http://blacklistednews.com/Nuclear-P...23/23/Y/M.html

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Air pressure inside the reactor at the Fukushima No 1. plant rose suddenly when the air flow gauge was accidentally turned off, operator TEPCO said early Tuesday (local time).
> 
> That blocked the flow of cooling water into the reactor, leading to full exposure of the rods about 11pm on Monday, it said.


There's no doubt that the people working there are in desperate need of sleep. At some point of sleep deprivation, it's worse than being drunk.

----------


## puppetmaster

http://www.lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo33.1.html

can anyone debunk this map and the radiation doses listed in this article?


0-50 rads  No obvious short-term effects
80-120 rads  You have a 10% chance of vomiting and experiencing nausia for a few days
130-170 rads  You have a 25% chance of vomiting and contracting other symptoms
180-220 rads  You have a 50% chance of vomiting and having other severe physical effects
270-330 rads  20% chance of death in 6 weeks, or you will recover in a few months.
400-500 rads  50% chance of death
550-750 rads  Nausia within a few hours ; no survivors
Greater than 1000 rads  immediate incapacitation and death within a week or less.

----------


## TheState

> Operators won't rule out nuclear meltdown


I'm assuming meltdowns have already occurred in reactors 1 and 3, probably happening in reactor 2 today. However, a meltdown just means that fuel has melted, it doesn't mean there's a mass release of radionuclides or anything.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> what's a good/safe daily intake of iodine via idoral for supplement purposes.. just bought some 12.5 mg tablets


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3159700

----------


## Anti Federalist

A number of posts in this thread have debunked it already.

Apparently it is the work of the /b/tards over at 4chan.




> http://www.lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo33.1.html
> 
> can anyone debunk this map and the radiation doses listed in this article?
> 
> 
> 0-50 rads – No obvious short-term effects
> 80-120 rads – You have a 10% chance of vomiting and experiencing nausia for a few days
> 130-170 rads – You have a 25% chance of vomiting and contracting other symptoms
> 180-220 rads – You have a 50% chance of vomiting and having other severe physical effects
> ...

----------


## pcosmar

> http://www.lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo33.1.html
> 
> can anyone debunk this map and the radiation doses listed in this article?


I think that is a worst case scenario (Chernobyl type), 
This is not likely anywhere near that bad. 
But the  extent is still unknown.

----------


## puppetmaster

are there any credible maps to this topic and worst case planning? I would rather err to the cautious side.

----------


## TheState

> A number of posts in this thread have debunked it already.
> 
> Apparently it is the work of the /b/tards over at 4chan.


Agreed, the chart is nonsense. Even at Chernobyl, which was by far WAY, WAY worse than anything possible in Japan, didn't reach levels anywhere close to those.

3000 Rads would be almost instant death, that kind of release just isn't possible.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Compare these:

Chernobyl


Fukishima

----------


## TheState

> Compare these:


While the pictures look similar, the results are very different.

Chernobyl had NO containment and there was a steam explosion caused by a runaway power escalation that destroyed the core and launched pieces everywhere.

The Japanese reactors still have 2 levels of containment intact and they are shutdown and below 0.5% of full power.

----------


## angelatc

> While the pictures look similar, the results are very different.
> 
> Chernobyl had NO containment and there was a steam explosion caused by a runaway power escalation that destroyed the core and launched pieces everywhere.
> 
> The Japanese reactors still have 2 levels of containment intact and they are shutdown and below 0.5% of full power.


How long will it take to shut it all the way down?

----------


## TheState

> How long will it take to shut it all the way down?


Reactor power, after shutdown, decays with the following formula (it's an exponential decay).

P(t)/Po =  6.48 x 10^(-3)*[t^(-0.2) - (t + To)^(-0.2)]  

Where, 
P(t) = power at time t 
Po = original power 
t = time since shutdown (in days)
To = time the reactor was operating (in days)

So if we say it's been 4 days since shutdown and we assume the reactor was operating for a year before that, the current power is around 0.2% 



Ok I did a quick plot, here's what reactor power looks like after shutdown (assuming it was running for a year prior)

----------


## YumYum

> A number of posts in this thread have debunked it already.
> 
> Apparently it is the work of the /b/tards over at 4chan.


This is the actual path of the radioactive cloud.

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/n...35-191816.html

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Just a bit and some help from reactor workers...

The most rational people on the Internet have been the nuke sector workers. Pretty much all of them have stated there are multiple scenarios, with a slew of different results, but there are just pieces of information being release, so attempting to making an accurate evaluation is difficult. One of the first things they almost all stated is how irrational, misinformed, irresponsible the media/gov have been... probably propaganda and just for advertising bucks/revenue/etc when not knowing the true situation.

All the mainstream corporate media have made mistakes with very bad so-called nuke analysts on their shows. The latest was last night's CBS 60 minutes nuke expert that was referencing a PWR-4 reactor, which none of these in trouble reactors at Fukishima happen to be, they are BWR 1 & 2s. etc etc etc... then you have the anti-nuke crowd's insightful panic.

Maybe it really wasn't the earthquake itself that put everything in the current state that is known, but the tsunami that flooded the sites killed all the backup and emergency designed mechanisms, which appears to be the major cause of inability to resolve the situation.

 The Tsunami killed the power, flooded the power rooms, battery banks, and generators that were the backup in states of emergency at the facilities. Who ever designed the site, never took into account Tsunami's hitting/flooding the installation and taking all primary/secondary/emergency power down affecting RCIC operations most likely. Yes the site/location was designed in the 60's and should of been modified as possible new crisis were discovered that may affect the plant. That's one part of the problem they thought they could fix immediately with the US military assistance of Diesel generators, but the hookup to the power legs in the power rooms are under water(flooded) by the Tsunami. So that killed the backup-emergency power idea. (Time for emergency 'Cam-Lock' junction boxes throughout the facility in the future.

Next is the emergency reaction to the problems in the reactors and containments. What a dilemma to be in... 

*NOTE:* See AF/B4L's and others that posted the BWR reactor pictures/cut aways for reference to the acronyms being used by nuclear field personnel quotes.

The latest A/Rs comments: 




> Isn't the steam seal exhaust blower and the seal condenser condensate  pump DC operated too?  I'm guessing that wouldn't prohibit operation of  RCIC, but it would make the local area much more hot (in both senses)  with the turbine exhaust leaking out into the pump room. 
> 
> I can only speculate what happened.  In a station blackout situation,  depressurizing via SRVs, HPCI, and RCIC to achieve whatever cool-down  rate they are allowed and fill the RPV would be a prudent choice.  This  could have been challenged by any number of things.  Maybe they can't  bypass their low pressure isolation logic that would stop them from  running RCIC down to around 150# or so.  Or, maybe there was a LOCA that  challenged containment before RCIC ever would have.  I think being in  the DC power box would challenge the operators as well, but there are  ways around/out of that box. From the earliest status reports I saw, HPCI was never available. I have  been assuming that either a) it was broke) or b) they didn't use it  because with no way to cool the torus, they would have challenged  containment quickly by using HPCI. 
> *
> But it is all speculation. I can only imagine going down my legs going "nope that is broke, next." "nope that is broke, next."* 
> 
> The top of a Mark 1 containment is just a metal skin over steel framing.   Above the refueling deck the only function of the building is to keep  ducks and seagulls from taking a swim in the spent fuel pool.
> 
> On  unit 1 all that appears to have happened is the skin is gone.  *It looks  like there is more damage to unit 3.   There must have been hydrogen  down in some of the lower level rooms*
> ...





> It isn't about the turbine, it was about the containment. Eventually,  containment parameters degrade to the point where the emergency  procedures direct you to stop all discharges to containment from things  like steam driven pumps.  My answer is based on "normal" Emergency Op Procedures(EOP) space. Once you get past a certain  point, you are into the "severe accident mitigation procedures." I am  sure they are well into those and my knowledge of them is limited.  However, in EOP space, from what I remember, protecting your ability to  perform a reactor blow-down is a high priority. However, keeping the core  covered is also, a high priority, so they are sort of competing. One of  those legs should have driven them to blowing down the reactor before  losing the ability to suppress it or before reactor level dropped below  the top of active fuel. I don't know how strong their RCIC is, but I can  tell you, that for the first 15 minutes or so after a trip from full  power on RCIC alone at Peach Bottom, RCIC will NOT maintain level. So  what I am saying is... I really have no idea how they got themselves in.  What I know from Peach Bottom cannot be directly correlated to their  plant because
> 
> *A)* they are somewhat different and...
> *B)* They had an 8.9  earth quake. This is why I have refrained from further speculation of  what is going on because it is beyond anything calculated or planned for  at this point. 
> 
> I just try to think about what I would be trying to do  if I was in their situation. The RCIC alone also would not have degraded the containment at PB as  fast as happened there. *So in my mind, they obviously had some other  discharge going on, despite the updates saying they didn't suspect a  leak. But like I said, I don't know, because I'm not there or have the  experience of having the earth torn beneath my feat while operating*.
> 
> At PB, after the first 15 minutes, RCIC was the one little reliable guy that could. 
> 
> You would have the Heat Capacity Limit of  your Torus that would drive you to lower RPV pressure or cool the Torus  per an EOP.  But, lets not forget that they were also in a station  blackout.  Other than minimizing DC loads to preserve much needed  battery power, you would definitely disable some interlocks.  I would  think HPCI and RCIC area temps and Low Pressure lockout for RCIC.  After  you lockout the low pressure isolation, running RCIC without throttling  the pump discharge (which will minimize the time needed to run the pump  and thereby keep the heating of the Torus to a minimum) will maintain  RPV level and also lower RPV pressure (which will help with the EOP heat  capacity curve).  HPCI is also a viable method of lowering pressure and  injecting to the RPV.  The lower you can get RPV pressure the higher  you can raise temperature in the Torus.


Today's report: 


> *Water levels dropped precipitously Monday inside a stricken Japanese  nuclear reactor, twice leaving the uranium fuel rods completely exposed  and raising the threat of a meltdown, hours after a hydrogen explosion  tore through the building housing a different reactor #3.*
> 
> *Water  levels were restored after the first decrease but the rods remained  exposed late Monday night after the second episode, increasing the risk  of the spread of radiation and the potential for an eventual meltdown.*


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/as...mp;cid=dlvr.it
Report In: Meanwhile, 17 U.S. military personnel involved in helicopter relief  missions were found to have been exposed to low levels of radiation  after the flew back from the devastated coast to the USS Ronald Reagan,  an aircraft carrier about 100 miles (160 kilometers) offshore. U.S.  officials said the exposure level was roughly equal to one month's  normal exposure to natural background radiation, and the 17 were  declared contamination-free after scrubbing with soap and water. As a precaution, the U.S. said the carrier and other 7th Fleet ships involved in relief efforts had shifted to another area.

----------


## Matt Collins

> This is the actual path of the radioactive cloud.
> 
> http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/n...35-191816.html

----------


## TheState

Great post HOLLYWOOD.

----------


## Anti Federalist

This is what you do *NOT* want to see.



That's a chunk of one of the graphite control rods blown out of the Chernobyl core.

And yes, I'm aware these reactors do not have graphite control rods, my point is that, as long as you don't start seeing pictures of the "guts" of the core and it's control mechanism lying all over the ground after the next explosion, things are still pretty well contained.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Maybe it really wasn't the earthquake itself that put everything in the current state that is known, but the tsunami that flooded the sites killed all the backup and emergency designed mechanisms, which appears to be the major cause of inability to resolve the situation.
> 
>  The Tsunami killed the power, flooded the power rooms, battery banks, and generators that were the backup in states of emergency at the facilities. Who ever designed the site, never took into account Tsunami's hitting/flooding the installation and taking all primary/secondary/emergency power down affecting RCIC operations most likely. Yes the site/location was designed in the 60's and should of been modified as possible new crisis were discovered that may affect the plant. That's one part of the problem they thought they could fix immediately with the US military assistance of Diesel generators, but the hookup to the power legs in the power rooms are under water(flooded) by the Tsunami.


Not accounting for the tsunami was a serious design error... Which might also explain why they didn't seem to have emergency pumps to pump out the power and equipment rooms.

----------


## teacherone



----------


## pcosmar

> 


Based on Chernobyl statistics.
(none of these are based on the Chernobyl design or with similar materials and flaws)

----------


## raiha

Just been another explosion at unit no 2.  Vey windy there.

----------


## Roxi

Most recent explosion was the inner core thingie.. Japan news (according to the translator)  "said this is the worst case scenario they were hoping to avoid"

----------


## devil21

If the reactor itself blew up then it IS Chernobyl all over again.  I dont see how that same sort of explosion is possible though.

Things just keep getting worse.  Yall on the West Coast better start thinking hard about how you're going to handle this!

----------


## Ranger29860

> If the reactor itself blew up then it IS Chernobyl all over again.  I dont see how that same sort of explosion is possible though.
> 
> Things just keep getting worse.  Yall on the West Coast better start thinking hard about how you're going to handle this!


You know I've seen a lot of post on this subject being all about how the west coast is in trouble. Is there actually any verifiable evidence that the west coast is in any danger at all?

----------


## TheState

> You know I've seen a lot of post on this subject being all about how the west coast is in trouble. Is there actually any verifiable evidence that the west coast is in any danger at all?


Even in the worst case (say a Chernobyl like release, which isn't really possible), the west coast is far enough away that there wouldn't be any dangerous levels. Luckily, the pacific ocean is HUGE so even a big release would have plenty of time to dissipate.

----------


## KramerDSP

geehall1 George Hall 
RT @Gilieh: Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor #fukushima, #bbc

----------


## TheState

They think the blast was in the suppression pool b/c pressure readings have gone done there. Water level in the reactor is constant, so they don't think it's been breached. They are evacuating non-essential workers from the plant. This is much different than the blasts at 1 and 3.

----------


## devil21

> You know I've seen a lot of post on this subject being all about how the west coast is in trouble. Is there actually any verifiable evidence that the west coast is in any danger at all?


If the reactor itself blew up then you definitely would have some fallout on the west coast.  Would it be like Poland?  No but you would get radioactive materials eventually.  I don't know if I'd just want to chance it, particularly if it's the gov't saying "everything will be fine!"

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> If the reactor itself blew up then it IS Chernobyl all over again.  I dont see how that same sort of explosion is possible though.
> 
> Things just keep getting worse.  Yall on the West Coast better start thinking hard about how you're going to handle this!


You know what's pissy about all this? The US government has the capabilities from space to measure all this radiation. Just like Chernobyl, they never want to comprise their classified projects and/or capabilities. But NASA uses such instruments on launched exploratory satellites around the solar system.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...ver&id=7169163

They are evacuating some employees from the Daiichi power plant and may expand the evacuation perimeter... not looking good.* Radiation leaking from Reactor #2.
* 



> *GE Falls on Ties to Japan Nuclear Plants*
> 
> 03/14/11 - 11:54 AM EDT                                                                                                           
> NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- *General Electric* (GE___)  shares have skidded in morning trading as GE-designed nuclear power  reactors in Japan were damaged in Japan's massive earthquake and  investor confidence in Japan's nuclear power future crumbles.

----------


## raiha

More workers evacuated from the area and the evacuation zone extended. How will they know what is happening if they aren't able to be near there? Higher radiation levels in Southern towns. They now believe radiation is leaking from the outer container. Now what? (Govt report)

----------


## TheState

These TEPCO reps are horrible at public relations and explaining the information. Why not show a graphic of the reactor building so the press doesn't keep asking the same questions?

----------


## KramerDSP

> They think the blast was in the suppression pool b/c pressure readings have gone done there. Water level in the reactor is constant, so they don't think it's been breached. They are evacuating non-essential workers from the plant. *This is much different than the blasts at 1 and 3*.


By this, worse. Correct?

----------


## TheState

> By this, worse. Correct?


It could be, I'm waiting to hear more info. However, it sounds like it could be a steam related blast rather than a hydrogen explosion like before. 

Also, this is inside the 2nd containment level (which could make it worse than 1 and 3).

----------


## Ranger29860

*edit* Quote seemed to mess up  i was replying to devil 21


I have been a member of this forum for awhile and in the last year the amount of people flipping out and blowing things out of proportion to me has seemed to increase.

The only map that was posted on this site that seemed to show possible fallout in the u.s was from 4chan. I'm happy it got debunked quickly but the fact that some believe something like that at face value is kinda scary.

I hope they  can get this under control. They  have had enough things go wrong and i hope they don't have to deal with fallout on top of it all.

----------


## raiha

There was a guy on BBC saying "a meltdown is just a meltdown. Nothing to worry about...keep it in perspective." Didn't catch his name. I suspect he was worrying about a meltdown in his Japan Electric shares.

50 workers are staying at the plant. That is heroic of them. The pilots who poured concrete over Chernobyl all died of radiation sickness. Think of all the search and rescue personnel; redcross, news media?
What can be done to contain the situation at this juncture?

----------


## angelatc

> These TEPCO reps are horrible at public relations and explaining the information. Why not show a graphic of the reactor building so the press doesn't keep asking the same questions?


We need the Thai  news animation team ASAP!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Another reactor just went BOOM! - they are saying 1/2 of rods are exposed there.  No word on what reactor.

As to the West coast being at risk, I hear every gvmt talking head saying don't worry, be happy - but ALWAYS qualifying their remarks.  That tells me - Yeah, the west coast is at risk if the worst happens and I don't care how big the ocean is.  More relative is if it rains on it's way over or the winds scatter it.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> *edit* Quote seemed to mess up  i was replying to devil 21
> 
> 
> I have been a member of this forum for awhile and in the last year the amount of people flipping out and blowing things out of proportion to me has seemed to increase.
> 
> The only map that was posted on this site that seemed to show possible fallout in the u.s was from 4chan. I'm happy it got debunked quickly but the fact that some believe something like that at face value is kinda scary.
> 
> I hope they  can get this under control. They  have had enough things go wrong and i hope they don't have to deal with fallout on top of it all.


I guess you didn't see the 5 day gulf stream forecast I posted.

-t

----------


## devil21

> *edit* Quote seemed to mess up  i was replying to devil 21
> 
> 
> I have been a member of this forum for awhile and in the last year the amount of people flipping out and blowing things out of proportion to me has seemed to increase.
> 
> The only map that was posted on this site that seemed to show possible fallout in the u.s was from 4chan. I'm happy it got debunked quickly but the fact that some believe something like that at face value is kinda scary.
> 
> I hope they  can get this under control. They  have had enough things go wrong and i hope they don't have to deal with fallout on top of it all.


I don't think that just because that map was made by the 4chan folks that you can just ignore any potential fallout that may come this way due to the jet stream.  Maybe that was the goal of the hoax map?  Get people to laugh and think it'll never land here?  What I think the hoax consisted of was mostly the "rad" information and the effects.  

The ability of nuclear particles to land into the jet stream and end up over here is very real.  The jet stream routinely runs at over 100mph and sometimes much more, up to 300mph.  It actually wouldn't take long for particles to land here from Japan.

----------


## Carson

I just came across a couple of links showing the jet stream predictions.

http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/disp...cgi?a=npac_250

http://squall.sfsu.edu/scripts/nhemjetstream_model.html



And there is this radiation monitor site. It has looked steady to me for the couple days I've monitored it.

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm

----------


## puppetmaster

> There was a guy on BBC saying "a meltdown is just a meltdown. Nothing to worry about...keep it in perspective." Didn't catch his name. I suspect he was worrying about a meltdown in his Japan Electric shares.
> 
> 50 workers are staying at the plant. That is heroic of them. *The pilots who poured concrete over Chernobyl all died of radiation sickness.* Think of all the search and rescue personnel; redcross, news media?
> What can be done to contain the situation at this juncture?


Maybe most of our Gov officials will volunteer to pour concrete...

----------


## YumYum

Someone made this observation on another forum which caught my attention.




> While everyone is worried about radiation from a handful of reactors (which might I add, stood up beautifully to one of the strongest earthquakes in recorded history), few take the time to acknowledge the petrochemical plant(s) that have been destroyed by this disaster. While the nuclear reactors are extremely well engineered (they are more or less intact, and functioning as they predictably should), the petrochemical plant(s) decidedly were not; and now are releasing materials like Uranium, Radon and Tritium (all of which are radioactive) into the environment as they burn. No news outlet is covering these plants, though there was a short mention of one on CNN the other day, with its enormous cloud of pollutants floating precariously above the blazing plant. Why are people so fixated on the nuclear reactors, when the largest threat to human health in terms of chemical pollutants and most likely radioactive species is burning right under Japan's nose?

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Most recent explosion was the inner core thingie.. Japan news (according to the translator)  "said this is the worst case scenario they were hoping to avoid"


Jesus...

Anybody got a source on this?

----------


## YumYum

> Jesus...
> 
> Anybody got a source on this?


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/wo...lear.html?_r=1

----------


## raiha

Good point Yum Yum...it is true we have all watched the nuclear meltdown movies and are conditioned to freak out at the bandying around of words such as 'melt down.' They are now saying the amount of radiation is now three times higher than is safe. Yes i am conditioned.. but the number of people potentially contaminated if this is not contained does not bear thinking about.

----------


## puppetmaster

> *edit* Quote seemed to mess up  i was replying to devil 21
> 
> 
> I have been a member of this forum for awhile and in the last year the amount of people flipping out and blowing things out of proportion to me has seemed to increase.
> 
> The only map that was posted on this site that seemed to show possible fallout in the u.s was from 4chan. I'm happy it got debunked quickly but the fact that some believe something like that at face value is kinda scary.
> 
> I hope they  can get this under control. They  have had enough things go wrong and i hope they don't have to deal with fallout on top of it all.


Thing is.....they're are no "do overs" I will always be overly cautious when it affects, or could affect my family. It is always good for a team like the team here on RPF to investigate and report as they see fit.

----------


## gregb

I live on Vancouver Island on the west coast of Canada and a few days before Mount St Helen erupted I was in Thunder Bay, Ontario (3000 miles east) and my car broke down. It was going to take a while to fix it so I flew back to Vancouver Island and a few days later the volcano blew. Maybe two weeks later I went back to get my car and it had been fixed a week before and parked. When I got there I had to brush about 3 inches of volcanic ash off of it. There wasn't a trace of ash at home.

I know ash isn't the same as radiation, etc but nobody has any problem convincing me that stuff can travel far away.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> More workers evacuated from the area and the evacuation zone extended. How will they know what is happening if they aren't able to be near there? Higher radiation levels in Southern towns. They now believe radiation is leaking from the outer container. Now what? (Govt report)


* Evacuating some people, those engineers, operators, which are the heros staying there through it all, so....* Probably advisors/consultants/secondary reporting people.   When your running thin on steps, you blow down or go to SAMPs (severe  accident management procedures). By this time, all the help in the world  will be available to you now, but, much is still unknow to the status, because, without power, you can't read the sensors, pumps, etc.  One of the things an operator must do before that battery goes dead is  to open a vent valve.  The vent releases hydrogen onto a short stack on  the turbine building.  Since the turbine buildings  appear undamaged, either the venting went per procedure, or they really lucked  out when the hydrogen blew out around the seals.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/wo...lear.html?_r=1


Thanks.

----------


## KramerDSP

Why is there no footage or image yet of Building #2 at Fukushima? And speaking of the explosions, I thought this comment elsewhere was interesting.




> Second point is that the first explosion looked like a simple hydrogen explosion, high up in the building (hydrogen rises) - almost like a balloon, a big bang and no smoke to speak of - the second explosion was much different. Much larger, directed sharply upwards and with all sorts of debris and dust involved. Just like something much lower in the building exploded. Seeing as the spent fuel is stored in water tanks high up in the buildings, I can't help but wonder if it got sent sky high, and also - just what was it that exploded with so much energy so low down in the building? Seems we should question that a bit more....

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Japan chief gov't spokesman to meet with reporters in 45 min. Also we're expecting a statement to the nation from Prime Min. Kan soon.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Here' the JAIF current pdf status of the Fukishima Power plants/reactors . 1,2,3 Kaput.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news/2...t-status-2.pdf

----------


## YumYum

> Good point Yum Yum...it is true we have all watched the nuclear meltdown movies and are conditioned to freak out at the bandying around of words such as 'melt down.' They are now saying the amount of radiation is now three times higher than is safe. Yes i am conditioned.. but the number of people potentially contaminated if this is not contained does not bear thinking about.


Check this out, raiha. This woman predicted a major quake to take place on March 11th, or right after, in Japan. She made her prediction on the 9th.

http://www.thelibertyunderground.net...g-picture.html

----------


## Carson

More bad news coming in over in a fark thread.

Something about number 4 on fire, high levels of radiation, and everyone evacuating the area.

Dang and word just cleared my clipboard of the reading I was trying to look up.

http://www.fark.com/comments/6031161...d=67605100#new

_
More news conference.

#4 reactor is on fire. It was not operating and there are no fuel rods in the reactor. There is still spent fuel in the pool. IOr maybe the fuel is in the pool? Hydrogen is being generated. He seems to be saying that in #4 the fire is due to the hydrogen. Stuff fell inside the reactor? Radiation is being released.

#2 a hole is observed in the reactor. So there will not be a hydrogen explosion. Part of the suppression chamber blew up. Small radiation released. Smoke is probably due to steam? Steam is hydrogen (huh what?).

#1 #3 water injection is continuing smoothly. They are cooling.

As for radiation; 400 mili Sievert. Not micro sievert. This is dangerous. Readings taken near the reactors on the outside._



P.S.


400 millisieverts = 40 rem
More about calculator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_...de_(radiation)

----------


## devil21

^^^^
Jeezzzz I hope that's not accurate.  The situation would be much much worse than we're being told.

Is fark a reliable site?  Never heard of it.

----------


## Kylie

> ^^^^
> Jeezzzz I hope that's not accurate.  The situation would be much much worse than we're being told.
> 
> Is fark a reliable site?  Never heard of it.




Yeah, new to me too. Trying to read through it all now. 

Sure wish all boards were set up the way this one is, it's much easier to decipher.

----------


## raiha

French Embassy in Tokyo says low level radiation could reach the Japanese capital in around 10 hours. They are advising French people to leave Japan.

Loved the photo of the kitty cat in the fark link.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Japan: New radiation leaks harmful to health* 

Mar 14, 10:32 PM EDT

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

SOMA, Japan (AP) -- Radiation is spewing from damaged reactors at a crippled nuclear power plant in tsunami-ravaged northeastern Japan in a dramatic escalation of the 4-day-old catastrophe. *The prime minister has warned residents to stay inside or risk getting radiation sickness.*

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Tuesday that a fourth reactor at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex was on fire and that more radiation was released

Prime Minister Naoto Kan warned that there are dangers of more leaks and told people living within 19 miles (30 kilometers) of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex stay indoors.

----------


## Carson

> ^^^^
> Jeezzzz I hope that's not accurate.  The situation would be much much worse than we're being told.
> 
> Is fark a reliable site?  Never heard of it.


It is a website that finds weird or interesting news. When you find some you try to make a funny or interesting headline and you submit it for the main page.

Down the middle of the main page is the headlines.

Over on the left is an icon or link to the original story.

Over on the right is a number that will link you to the comments.

I think some of the people there are the funniest and smartest people on the Internet. You also may come across a post you might wish you may have skipped.

www.fark.com

----------


## Roxi

A 4th reactor is on fire

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/1...mful-to-health





ETA: Oops, I just saw AntiFederalist posted this 10 minutes ago, I am leaving the link though, ecause it has a timeline of events from the eginning

----------


## UtahApocalypse

im at a loss of words......

----------


## ihsv

Via Drudge:

*Japan reactor fire releases radiation*

A FIRE has broken out at the number-four reactor at the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 atomic power plant and radiation levels have risen considerably, Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan says.

Mr Kan has told people within 30km of troubled nuclear power plant to stay indoors.

Radiation is spewing from damaged reactors at a crippled nuclear power plant in tsunami-ravaged northeastern Japan in a dramatic escalation of the four-day-old catastrophe.

The prime minister has warned residents to stay inside or risk getting radiation sickness.

A government spokesman said radiation emanating from the plant today is high enough in nearby areas to damage health.

Link: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/bre...-1226021782079

----------


## Carson

> Yeah, new to me too. Trying to read through it all now. 
> 
> Sure wish all boards were set up the way this one is, it's much easier to decipher.


I tried explaining it some in an answer to *devil21's* post. Lots of time I just look at the pictures to get through.

Usually the threads there start out with short jokes. You keep them short there if you want them read.

I the middle somewhere you sometimes get some serious discussion.

The threads often end with name calling and other forms of expression as they crash and burn.

http://www.fark.com/


I think we have a new Fark thread starting on this topic. (Been 6?)

OK radiation is coming out

----------


## Fox McCloud

here's a quick run-down of thorium reactors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUeB...layer_embedded

basically it never happened because the government pretty much determined where the nuclear industry would go---and it had weapons in mind first; later on, it became a political game of politically well connected+established vs non-politically connected.

So the people who are saying "if it was up to the free market, it would have been thorium" are probably right; the startup costs and long term benefits of thorium (not to much less risk) would have been much more viable than other nuclear fuels.

----------


## Roxi

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/st...315-1buq7.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...,5884491.story

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...eak-from-quake

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...80660#42080660

----------


## mac_hine

Nikkei Flash Crash - Futures Plummet 16% As All Hell Breaks Loose In Japan



All hell is currently breaking loose following an explosion at reactor #2 and a another hydrogen explosion at reactor $4 per Kyodo, leading to a 16% drop in Nikkei futures as blind panic grips Japan. Kyodo essentially confirms there was a reactor meltdown as radiation levels at Fukushima 3 are now 400 times legal levels. And topping it all Japan's warning that all people within 30 kilometers from Fukushima should stay indoors and that the radioactive winds may reach Tokyo in as little as 8 hours. The BOJ has just intervened to prevent the yen from surging, as the following chart shows. Our prayers are with the people of Japan.




http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nik...ks-loose-japan

Asia-Pacific
INDEX	VALUE	CHANGE	OPEN	HIGH	LOW	TIME
NIKKEI 225	8,190.00	-1,270.00	9,440.00	9,560.00	7,900.00	22:57
HANG SENG	22,353.00	-920.00	23,064.00	23,117.00	22,159.00	23:02
SPI 200	4,513.00	-96.00	4,612.00	4,627.00	4,484.00	23:07

----------


## YumYum

Reactor #4 is on fire and Tokyo may get a radiation.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/bre...-1226021782079

----------


## TER

from what I just heard on the radio from a nuclear expert (never knew there were so many of them!) who is president of Radio Chemistry something or other, that the fire is a big problem in reactor 4 (location of spent fuel rods) mostly because the ashes and such can create particulate matter which can widen the area of contamination and increase health risks of breathing in/ingesting.  Lord have mercy.

BTW, he said worse case scenario, and western USA will still be okay as it would only be a local problem.  YMMV.

----------


## Roxi

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/c...nclick_check=1

for those with questions about whether or not it could reach the coast.

----------


## Carson

Link to a Geiger counter. 

I don't know if it is for sure or where. It's in Japanese. Intersting though if it is for real.





http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html

----------


## Carson

I hope this isn't the reactors. (English) 

Fires burning???

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43296023

----------


## cswake

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/wo...ewanted=2&_r=1




> Some outside industry executives were skeptical of official Japanese accounts of what was happening at Daiichi. One executive with extensive contacts among Japanese nuclear industry and government officials said the situation had in fact spiraled out of control and that all plant workers would almost certainly need to leave the plant to avoid excessive exposure to radioactive leaks.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> http://www.mercurynews.com/science/c...nclick_check=1
> 
> for those with questions about whether or not it could reach the coast.


*
Fukishima Reactor Status Update AM* *2011-03-15*: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300157986P.pdf

*Fukushima Daini Unit #1*
*http://www.insc.anl.gov/cgi-bin/rper...le_id&qval=204
*
*Fukushima Daini Unit #2*
http://www.insc.anl.gov/cgi-bin/rper...le_id&qval=205
*
Fukushima Daini Unit #3*
http://www.insc.anl.gov/cgi-bin/rper...le_id&qval=206

*Fukushima Daini Unit #4
unknown... no change in status
*http://www.insc.anl.gov/cgi-bin/rper...le_id&qval=207

----------


## Carson

This looks like a good link. It is a bunch of the latest news links.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

----------


## Kylie

$#@! is getting real.

----------


## Carson

Almost 600 post in the new thread on fark in around 3 hours. Going nuclear.


*OK radiation is coming out*

http://www.fark.com/comments/6033184...-is-coming-out

----------


## TER

Interesting that the word 'Chernobyl' is the Ukranian word 'чорнобиль' , which mean 'wormwood'. "The word is a combination of the words chornyi (чорний, black) and byllia (билля, grass blades or stalks), hence it literally means black grass or black stalks. That may signify burnt grass, perhaps prior to cultivation." (wikipedia source)

For those who recognize the word 'Wormwood', it is found in Revelation 8:11 regarding an event in the end times: "And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Does the 'star' refer to a fission reaction?  Is Wormwood, "black grass", the biblical equivalent to radiation poisoning?  Of course, no one know but God what will come out of all this, but interesting things to note.  Lord have mercy. 

Of course, the answer is,

----------


## Roxi

Well everyone can feel safe now, Hannity says everything is fine and there is definitely no risk to the US

----------


## Vessol

"Al Jazeera’s Steve Chao, reporting from Yamagata, says a no-fly zone has been established in a 30 km radius over the Fukushima nuclear plant."

----------


## Vessol

> Well everyone can feel safe now, Hannity says everything is fine and there is definitely no risk to the US


Lol. I love how everyone is talking just about the U.S.

Yeah! $#@! the Japanese!

----------


## YumYum

> Interesting that the word 'Chernobyl' is the Ukranian word 'чорнобиль' , which mean 'wormwood'. "The word is a combination of the words chornyi (чорний, black) and byllia (билля, grass blades or stalks), hence it literally means black grass or black stalks. That may signify burnt grass, perhaps prior to cultivation." (wikipedia source)
> 
> For those who recognize the word 'Wormwood', it is found in Revelation 8:11 regarding an event in the end times: "And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
> 
> Does the 'star' refer to a fission reaction?  Is Wormwood, "black grass", the biblical equivalent to radiation poisoning?  Of course, no one know but God what will come out of all this, but interesting things to note.  Lord have mercy. 
> 
> Of course, the answer is,


I love this scripture. Man is destroying this earth. Man is so totally out of control. This is what God will do to those who are ruining His planet:

: _"The nations were filled with wrath, but now the time of your wrath has come. It is time to judge the dead and reward your servants the prophets, as well as your holy people, and all who fear your name, from the least to the greatest. It is time to destroy all who have caused destruction on the earth."_

----------


## raiha

Especially the babies. I love it when God kills the babies.

----------


## Matt Collins

> Interesting that the word 'Chernobyl' is the Ukranian word 'чорнобиль' , which mean 'wormwood'. "The word is a combination of the words chornyi (чорний, black) and byllia (билля, grass blades or stalks), hence it literally means black grass or black stalks. That may signify burnt grass, perhaps prior to cultivation." (wikipedia source)
> 
> For those who recognize the word 'Wormwood', it is found in Revelation 8:11 regarding an event in the end times: "And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
> 
> Does the 'star' refer to a fission reaction?  Is Wormwood, "black grass", the biblical equivalent to radiation poisoning?  Of course, no one know but God what will come out of all this, but interesting things to note.  Lord have mercy. 
> 
> Of course, the answer is,


Reminds me of the quote from this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107653/quotes

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Well everyone can feel safe now, Hannity says everything is fine and there is definitely no risk to the US


...except from Iran.

----------


## angelatc

> Lol. I love how everyone is talking just about the U.S.
> 
> Yeah! $#@! the Japanese!


 I saw a person I won't name Tweet something like "Did you see what the Muslims are doing to help Japan? Yeah, me either."

----------


## Texan4Life

> I saw a person I won't name Tweet something like "Did you see what the Muslims are doing to help Japan? Yeah, me either."


wow

----------


## PeacePlan

Tuesday, March 15, 2011

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0110315a1.html*

Reactor fuel rods fully exposed*

*Coolant failure now reported in No. 2 unit*


By *KANAKO TAKAHARA*
   Staff writer

      The radioactive fuel rods at the No. 2 reactor of the  Fukushima No. 1 power station were fully exposed at one point Monday,  Tokyo Electric Power Co. said, raising the possibility that it suffered a  partial core meltdown.

The utility operating the Fukushima plant later said  the level of coolant water in the reactor's container was raised 2  meters above the base of the rods — which are about 4 meters long.

     However, it was not clear if Tepco was able to pump  enough coolant into the containment vessel to cool it off. Nevertheless,  Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference Monday  evening that the situation stabilized after cooling resumed.

     Fears of the worst-case scenario — a total core  meltdown — are increasing because the No. 2 reactor's self-cooling  system failed and sea water was being pumped in from outside.

     Tepco said the water levels fell because the pump temporarily ran out of fuel and workers failed to notice it quickly enough.

     It was not immediately clear how long the reactor's core lay fully exposed or to what extent it heated up in that time.

     Also Monday, another hydrogen explosion occurred at the  Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power station, this time blowing off the  housing of the No. 3 reactor into the sky and injuring 11 people.

     Edano gave assurances that the No. 3 reactor's  containment vessel survived the explosion, just like the one at the No. 1  reactor, which blew up its housing on Saturday.
     The latest explosion came as the government was busy  conducting a massive rescue and body retrieval operation all along the  Tohoku region coast, and the threat of massive power outages in the  Kanto region.

     Like Saturday's explosion, Monday's 11:01 a.m. blast at  the No. 3 reactor spewed smoke from the building and left only sections  of the internal frame visible.

     The No. 3 reactor's fuel rods heated up, reacted with  water and caused the release of hydrogen gas, which accumulated and  mixed with oxygen to trigger the blast.
     Tepco officials considered removing all wall panels to reduce the pressure but felt such a move would be too dangerous.

     Tepco has been pumping seawater into the three reactors  in a desperate bid to cool them down. But the utility had to  temporarily suspend the operation after its seawater storage tank ran  dry, apparently resulting in the fuel rods heating up.


     The seawater injection stopped at around 1 a.m. due to  the water tank shortage but resumed for the No. 3 reactor at 3:20 a.m.,  according to the nuclear safety agency.
     The halt of coolant water injections apparently caused  pressure in the reactor container to rise. It also caused radiation at  the plant to climb as well, the agency said.


     Tepco at one point planned to release radioactive steam  from the No. 3 reactor container to depressurize it and ordered workers  to vacate the site. But as the pressure later receded, workers resumed  operations at the site, the agency said.

     The government had warned that this kind of blast was likely to occur.

     Because of the explosion, the government told about 500  residents within a 20-km radius of the plant who were in the process of  evacuating to get back indoors for the time being.

     "According to the data we have gathered, the reactor  container remains sound," Edano told a news conference, adding that  radiation levels measured at several locations have not shown a massive  leak.

     For now, the agency has ruled out widening the evacuation zone.

     On Monday, radiation on the plant's premises rose over  the benchmark limit of 500 microsieverts per hour at two locations,  hitting 751 microsieverts at the first location at 2:20 a.m. and 650 at  the second at 2:40 a.m., according to the report.

     Information from Kyodo added

----------


## hugolp

So anyone knows or has a good source of what is going on now?

I have heard reports claiming that the concrete on reactor 4 has a whole, others claiming that is the internal vessel not the concrete one, etc... Its seems to be contradictory information all over.

----------


## Teaser Rate

> So anyone knows or has a good source of what is going on now?


Update 7:10 3/15: According to reports, a frustrated Naoto Kan asked TEPCO execs "What the hell is going on?"

Source.

----------


## hugolp

> Update 7:10 3/15: According to reports, a frustrated Naoto Kan asked TEPCO execs "What the hell is going on?"
> 
> Source.


Bussines Insider always looks for the most alarmistic angle. I am looking for a good source. I really would like to know if something is broken and a good scientific explanation of what could happen given the situation.

----------


## Teaser Rate

> Bussines Insider always looks for the most alarmistic angle. I am looking for a good source. I really would like to know if something is broken and a good scientific explanation of what could happen given the situation.


My point was that if the Prime Minister of Japan doesn’t know what’s going on, odds are, no one really does. Hell, the engineers working on the plant probably aren’t sure what the situation is. 

I've been following various mainstream news sites and streams, but if someone has a better source, I'd be interested in seeing it as well.

----------


## Teaser Rate

Accident at #Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant upgraded to level six crisis, on scale of seven, say French officials - AFP 

Source

----------


## hugolp

> My point was that if the Prime Minister of Japan doesn’t know what’s going on, odds are, no one really does. Hell, the engineers working on the plant probably aren’t sure what the situation is. 
> 
> I've been following various mainstream news sites and streams, but if someone has a better source, I'd be interested in seeing it as well.


Ok, I understand, but I really dont trust that information neither (or the source of that info, a swedish paper) given the complete mess all media has done of the incident.

----------


## YumYum

> Bussines Insider always looks for the most alarmistic angle. I am looking for a good source. I really would like to know if something is broken and a good scientific explanation of what could happen given the situation.


I like this site:

http://www.unitedexplanations.org/20...sto-del-mundo/


Also this is current:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72E0ZR20110315

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest Updates from Japan


Reactor #4 updated 
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300189582P.pdf

40x's radiation levels reported in parts of Tokyo but has now dropped to 6x's levels. Some panic has hit Tokyo.

*Radiation fears spark panic buying, evacuations in Tokyo*

                   	                                              Commuters stand in line to board other trains at Yokohama Station, southwest of Tokyo, March 14, 2011. 
                         Credit: Reuters/Kyodo




            By Jason Szep and Terril Yue Jones
                  TOKYO |          Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:42am EDT         

 TOKYO  (Reuters) - Radiation wafted from an earthquake-stricken nuclear power  plant toward Tokyo on Tuesday, sparking panic in one of the world's  biggest and most densely populated cities.

----------


## TheState

> Latest Updates from Japan
> 
> 
> Reactor #4 updated 
> http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300189582P.pdf


Thank you! The reactor 4 spent fuel pool and reactor 2 seem to be the biggest concerns right now.

----------


## cswake

Series of interviews with a Navy Nuclear Engineer who has three decades of experience:

http://georneys.blogspot.com/2011/03...th-my-dad.html

Latest one:

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Thank you! The reactor 4 spent fuel pool and reactor 2 seem to be the biggest concerns right now.


 You're welcome... yeah, spent fuel pool on #4 not adequate enough cooling and did you see the temperatures are rising on Reactors #5 & #6? I noticed on reactor #2, the building was listed damaged, then the next day Not Damaged, now it's back to slightly damaged.

US Nuke Experts put the current environmental impact at a 6 level, I say it's at least a 5, but Japan (NISA) still has it at a 4 over the past 72 hours. 

Chernobyl was rated a 7.5

----------


## TheState

> You're welcome... did you see the tempertures are rising on Reactors #5 & #6?


Yea, the spent fuel pools are actually what are worrying me the most. Unlike the reactors, they do not have robust containment. Apparently, the reactor 4 spent fuel pool had boiled so far down that fuel was exposed (and caused another hydrogen blast). It really surprises me that they can't keep enough water flowing in these pools to at least keep the fuel covered. Definitely not a good sign of their control of the situation overall. 




> I noticed on reactor #2, the building was listed damaged, then the next day Not Damaged, now it's back to slightly damaged.http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300189582P.pdf


I had heard it was damaged in the blast of reactor 3 (or that a hole had been punched in it, so that was why there was no hydrogen explosion in reactor 2, the hydrogen had vented out the hole). You would think that the blast in the suppression pool in reactor 2 would also damage the outer building some. Another bad sign.

----------


## A. Havnes

> Well everyone can feel safe now, Hannity says everything is fine and there is definitely no risk to the US


That's not what Glenn Beck said on his show!  He said it's going to be a bumpy ride because we (and Japan?) aren't following the Ten Commandments or some such thing.  I can tell you right now that the Japanese (at least from my own experience) practice the Ten Commandments better on a daily basis than most of us Christians here in the west, and Christianity is around 1% in Japan.  Take that, Beck!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

While not an issue for us, the forth blow of this disaster is going to be disease.  They are unable to bury or cremate bodies fast enough and much of the available water is not potable. 

As to the chances of fallout here, I have yet to hear a single "expert" not qualify their guarantees that the US is totally safe.  Rather it seems like every "worst case" scenario is coming true and it's spreading to reactors 4+.

They are also regularly getting magnitude 6+ earthquakes on a regular basis, so I wouldn't rule out another previously weakened complex going south.

-t

----------


## pcosmar

> *Japanese nuclear plant may only have a few hours....*


This thread started many hours (days) ago. Each hour seems to bring worse news. This is going to be bad for a while.

----------


## cswake

One of the worst-case scenarios of spent fuel being exposed (per the Mark Mervine interview above) is unfortunately increasing in probability:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tep...surges-390-440




> TEPCO unable to pour water into No. 4 reactor's storage pool for spent fuel.


Those ~50 personnel who are at the nuclear site are heroes... I truly hope they succeed.

----------


## Roxi

Is this site working for anyone? http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm

----------


## CaliforniaMom

I was just trying to check that site too... now how will we know about the radiation levels? I'm wondering if the government shut it down to avoid panic.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

It should be too soon to see anything here, but it does look like the site got taken down.

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> One of the worst-case scenarios of spent fuel being exposed (per the Mark Mervine interview above) is unfortunately increasing in probability:
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tep...surges-390-440
> 
> Those ~50 personnel who are at the nuclear site are heroes... I truly hope they succeed.





> When we looked at TEPCO last two days ago,  we said that as a result of the catastrophe in Fukushima its CDS which  then had jumped by 90 bps to 133 bps, "we expect this number will soon  be at multiples as the fall out to the company is increasingly exposed  to the market." Alas, as predicted, the CDS is now trading 390-440 and  will likely go points up very soon.* Recall that the utility has over $90 billion in debt,  which may or may not be nationalized, but any "conservatorship"  treatment will likely trigger restructuring clauses.* And the latest news  out of Kyodo goes from bad to worse for the electric company: "TEPCO unable to pour water into No. 4 reactor's storage pool for spent fuel."


This quake is going to be at least $100 Billion in damages if not more... I'd dump all the insurance backers... AFLAC, AIG... oh wait, we'll be backing them via the FED and Washinfton DC sticking their debt upon the US taxpayers.

Latest NHK television news stated,  "there are approximately 500 workers within the nuclear quarantine zone(20km radii)... measurements of radioactivity at the entrance gate to the Fukishima power complex is 10x normal.

----------


## specsaregood

> This quake is going to be at least $100 Billion in damages if not more... I'd dump all the insurance backers... AFLAC, AIG... oh wait, we'll be backing them via the FED and Washinfton DC sticking their debt upon the US taxpayers.


Alternately I suppose they could sell off some of our debt they own to pay for it all....

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/new...nt-and-the.asp

Exactly where a hypothetical "radiation cloud", from either Fukushima Daiichi or Onagawa, would go should depend upon the weather pattern at the time of, and following, the release. 



Moreover, it should depend upon how high the cloud rose into the atmosphere. This is because the winds normally vary widely between the near-surface and the upper atmosphere, home to the eastward-flowing jet stream.

Generally speaking, any radioactive cloud rising significantly into the atmosphere would travel essentially eastward and northeastward across the Pacific Ocean, eventually reaching North America anywhere between Alaska and California. The precise details as to timing and path taken would depend upon the state of the atmosphere at the time of the hypothetical radiation release.

Although such a cloud would pose virtually no threat while in the upper atmosphere, the fallout at the ground of radioactive particles from it should be a concern for any monitoring authority.

A hypothetical release of radiation staying near the ground would be subject to low-level winds, which are more prone to varying. 

[...]

Calculated time for radioactive particles to cross the Pacific from the power plants in Japan to big West Coast cities if the particles take a direct path and move at a speed of 20 mph:

Cities 	Est. Distance (miles) 	Est. Time to Cross Pacific (days)
Anchorage 	3,457 	7
Honolulu 	3,847 	8
Seattle 	4,792 	10
Los Angeles 	5,477 	11

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Forwarding a bit of communication from an active duty mil friend I know:

Looks like a spent fuel rod site caught fire but is now out. This is a large potential source of contamination. Second concern is if #3 continues to heat up and burns its steel base it could hit the very shallow ground water and *this would spew radioactive steam in very large (global) quantities.*
So far it looks like the flailing has done a lot of containment its just not 100%

*the buzz word is things going chernobil... there are a lot of other scenarios that can spew worse than chernobil.*
yesterday morning tokio time 13hrs ago it was still around 20cpm in tokio, but my source is no longer comunicating.

(btw: the MSM talking heads just said the spent fuel rods were still on fire.)

----------


## sparebulb

> Is this site working for anyone? http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm


UPDATE:  The site is working for me now. www.radiationnetwork.com

For awhile, I thought that there may have been a conspiracy in the works.

----------


## specsaregood

Jason Lewis had a level-headed discussion of this last night.  He isn't concerned.....

Jason Lewis Show 03/14/11-1st Hour
Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:15:15 -0400
Jason talks about the situation w/the nuclear plants in Japan. He points out the media overblowing the situation.
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...LE=Jason_Lewis

Jason Lewis Show 03/14/11-2nd Hour
Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:23:57 -0400
Jason continues on nuclear energy. What will the recent situation effect nuclear in our country.
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...LE=Jason_Lewis

Jason Lewis Show 03/14/11-3rd Hour
Mon, 14 Mar 2011 20:55:33 -0400
Jason gives updates on the situation in Libya. Walter Olson joins Jason for the second half hour to discuss his new book "Schools for Misrule"
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...LE=Jason_Lewis

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Forwarding a bit of communication from an active duty mil friend I know:
> 
> Looks like a spent fuel rod site caught fire but is now out. This is a large potential source of contamination.
> 
> (btw: the MSM talking heads just said the spent fuel rods were still on fire.)


There's the fire and our dirty bomb... how many layers of containment on the spent fuel rods?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Yea, the spent fuel pools are actually what are worrying me the most. Unlike the reactors, they do not have robust containment. Apparently, the reactor 4 spent fuel pool had boiled so far down that fuel was exposed (and caused another hydrogen blast). It really surprises me that they can't keep enough water flowing in these pools to at least keep the fuel covered. Definitely not a good sign of their control of the situation overall.


Saw a report that the "casing" of the spent fuels rods was burning? Is that smoke going straight out into the environment?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> There's the fire and our dirty bomb... how many layers of containment on the spent fuel rods?


Basically none to one.  thin cement ceiling.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Saw a report that the "casing" of the spent fuels rods was burning? Is that smoke going straight out into the environment?


AFAICT - yeah....

----------


## osan

> You're welcome... yeah, spent fuel pool on #4 not adequate enough cooling and did you see the temperatures are rising on Reactors #5 & #6? I noticed on reactor #2, the building was listed damaged, then the next day Not Damaged, now it's back to slightly damaged.
> 
> US Nuke Experts put the current environmental impact at a 6 level, I say it's at least a 5, but Japan (NISA) still has it at a 4 over the past 72 hours. 
> 
> Chernobyl was rated a 7.5


It should also be borne in mind that the Japanese are notorious liars where unpleasant and "uncomfortable" issues are in question.  They could be jumping out of their skin with hatred for you and you will never know it as they hide behind their "8-fold fence".  If the Jap. government is admitting to the situation being as bad as they say, there is a nontrivial chance that the truth is worse.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> AFAICT - yeah....


Next we will hear that the spent rods are cased in graphite...deja vu.

The Japanese should have started mixing cement on day one...

----------


## Acala

> It should also be borne in mind that the Japanese are notorious liars where unpleasant and "uncomfortable" issues are in question.  They could be jumping out of their skin with hatred for you and you will never know it as they hide behind their "8-fold fence".  If the Jap. government is admitting to the situation being as bad as they say, there is a nontrivial chance that the truth is worse.


Fortunately WE live in a land where government only tells the truth - if there is no lie that would be even slightly more convenient.  Really, once government has reached the point where there essentially IS no difference between truth and lie to them and all that matters is what they can get away with, are there any meaningful gradiations between liars?  I think not.

----------


## unklejman

Buzzwords are not what we need right now. Facts are much more helpful. I almost feel like there are some people on this forum that are actually hoping that this is a bigger disaster than it is.  Ok well maybe not hoping, more like, get some kind of high at the thought of a this turning into a world wide disaster.

----------


## Acala

Warning!  Non-expert spouting off ahead!!!


Anyone who says "going Chernobyl" doesn't know what he is talking about.  Chernobyl was a run away chain reaction.  The Japanese reactors stopped their chain reactions automatically when the earthquake hit. They are just trying to deal with the residual decay heat.  There is still enough of that to cause the core to melt and the molten core starts moving and burning through containment.  But here is another huge reason why this is not going to "go chernobyl" - these reactors have serious core containment while chernobyl had almost none.  

That having been said, it seems that there is still potential for serious problems and a major radiation release.  Presumably, the hard containment can hold a molten core.  If not, what would be the point?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> It should also be borne in mind that the Japanese are notorious liars where unpleasant and "uncomfortable" issues are in question.  They could be jumping out of their skin with hatred for you and you will never know it as they hide behind their "8-fold fence".  If the Jap. government is admitting to the situation being as bad as they say, there is a nontrivial chance that the truth is worse.


 Where yah been OSAN? Yeah, know those facts... try asking for directions in downtown Tokyo. Took me a half hour for help and that was speaking Japanese... in so-called "rude New Yorkers" you can get directions @ Times Sq in 10 seconds.

The latest consensus had 3/4's of Japan wanting the US military out, but they have to swallow the US Imperial Pill just as well... in the back room deals of providing US NatGas/Crude Oil from Prudhoe Bay, Discounts on military weaponry(missile frigates, fighters, refueling tankers, all in exchange to low tariffs, and US military bases/installations across their country (PROTECTION FEES, sound familiar?). I spent time at Yakota, Misawa, and Kadena. I still have a huge Japanese protest cloth banner, Anti-US/military/imperial banner from Naha. 

The US military is doing a knockout job helping Japan... 

http://www.yokota.af.mil/
http://www.misawa.af.mil/

Latest that FOX NEWS is reporting, are possibly going to cool the reactors/fuel rods dropping water from helicopters.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Buzzwords are not what we need right now. Facts are much more helpful. I almost feel like there are some people on this forum that are actually hoping that this is a bigger disaster than it is.  Ok well maybe not hoping, more like, get some kind of high at the thought of a this turning into a world wide disaster.


"Buzzwords" = internal mil chatter.  Not the MSN crap.  The Media and gvmt is lying.  Deal with it!  They want to avoid panic.  But go stick your head in the sand if you want, or spew disinfo Mr 415 posts in the past 4 years...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Warning!  Non-expert spouting off ahead!!!
> 
> 
> Anyone who says "going Chernobyl" doesn't know what he is talking about.  Chernobyl was a run away chain reaction.  The Japanese reactors stopped their chain reactions automatically when the earthquake hit. They are just trying to deal with the residual decay heat.  There is still enough of that to cause the core to melt and the molten core starts moving and burning through containment.  But here is another huge reason why this is not going to "go chernobyl" - these reactors have serious core containment while chernobyl had almost none.  
> 
> That having been said, it seems that there is still potential for serious problems and a major radiation release.  Presumably, the hard containment can hold a molten core.  If not, what would be the point?


Spoken as someone that has not considered the potential impact and has no clue.

Yeah - hopefully this does not happen, but we are being lied to - as usual.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

I don't know if anyone has posted this interactive Fukishima Nuclear Site by the NY Times, if you have, thanks...  pretty good graphics work on short notice. Check it out.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html?ref=asia

----------


## Roxi

> UPDATE:  The site is working for me now. www.radiationnetwork.com
> 
> For awhile, I thought that there may have been a conspiracy in the works.



Yes their main site works, but not the map site http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm and there are no links to the map site from their main page The links to the map from various sites around the web aren't working either.

----------


## unklejman

> "Buzzwords" = internal mil chatter.  Not the MSN crap.  The Media and gvmt is lying.  Deal with it!  They want to avoid panic.  But go stick your head in the sand if you want, or spew disinfo Mr 415 posts in the past 4 years...


So waiting for facts over media sensationalism, or some guy on a forum who heard something from somebody is sticking my head in the sand? 

You are saying that military internal chatter from your friend is saying Chernobyl, yet nuclear physicists and engineers are saying that this is nothing like Chernobyl. They give detailed facts and information as to why, but you said your friend said so. 

415 posts in 4 years, yes, and I'm spreading misinformation? I have given no information on this situation because I have none that is reliable/relevant/new. 

You make my point for me.

lol I really can't believe you are criticizing me for not spending a lot of time posting on an internet forum.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Welcome to the forums Internet nuke expert and sheeple....

----------


## unklejman

> Welcome to the forums Internet nuke expert and sheeple....


Oh I see, you are a troll. Thanks for clearing that up for me. That could be the only explanation for your behavior. 

Most of the people in the liberty movement are level headed people that use reason and logic. 

No where have I claimed to be any kind of expert or even given ANY information, yet you sarcastically call me an expert. And then you call me a sheeple, because I don't take your post about this being a Chernobyl as fact.

----------


## pacelli

8000+ posts and I could be a troll.  Post count means nothing.

----------


## Danke

> Where yah been OSAN? Yeah, know those facts... try asking for directions in downtown Tokyo. Took me a half hour for help and that was speaking Japanese... in so-called "rude New Yorkers" you can get directions @ Times Sq in 10 seconds.


Well, having lived in Japan including Tokyo, I would say rude is the wrong word.  I speak Japanese and would guess it was probably partially your approach that made them *shy* away.  From my experience, chances are you did not come off to the people you were asking directions from as actually speaking Japanese.  And they were embarrassed that they could not speak English with you (they have had six years minimum in school, but still can't speak it).

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Well, having lived in Japan including Tokyo, I would say rude is the wrong word.  I speak Japanese and would guess it was probably partially your approach that made them *shy* away.  From my experience, chances are you did not come off to the people you were asking directions from as actually speaking Japanese.  And they were embarrassed that they could not speak English with you (they have had six years minimum in school, but still can't speak it).


What are you talking about "rude"? That rude was directed at the stereotype of Manhattan New Yorkers.

----------


## Danke

> What are you talking about "rude"? That rude was directed at the stereotype of Manhattan New Yorkers.


You were making a comparison.  Japanese worse than NYers, NY rude. Go back and read it.  jeez.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> You were making a comparison.  Japanese worse than NYers, NY rude. Go back and read it.  jeez.


 Yes, stating that"SO-CALLED" rude people of Manhattan, NY give you directions in 10 seconds... where as in Tokyo you don't even get directions. I never stated that the Japanese in Tokyo were rude to me I gave a comparison on the TIME... Geez

----------


## Danke

> Yes, stating that"SO-CALLED" rude people of Manhattan, NY give you directions in 10 seconds... where as in Tokyo you don't even get directions. I never stated that the Japanese in Tokyo were rude to me I gave a comparison on the TIME... Geez


Oh, so 10 seconds for you to get directions with the "rude NYers" and 30 minutes in Japan for you to get directions.  Why do you suppose that is?

BTW, where did you learn your Japanese?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> You are saying that military internal chatter from your friend is saying Chernobyl, yet nuclear physicists and engineers are saying that this is nothing like Chernobyl. They give detailed facts and information as to why, but you said your friend said so.





> Spoken as someone that has not considered the potential impact...


Some results are similar, the internal technology is different. No need to have an "it's the same", "no, it's different" argument when one person is talking about internal reactor technology and the other is talking about the release of radiation.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Oh, so 10 seconds for you to get directions with the "rude NYers" and 30 minutes in Japan for you to get directions.  Why do you suppose that is?
> 
> BTW, where did you learn your Japanese?


Father spoke Japanese, then many military trips/TDYs to Japan, Dated a Japanese American, worked at a defense contractor with work in Japan, AND... I've watched all the Godzilla Franchise movies a gazillion times.

----------


## Anti Federalist

All y'all...

----------


## hugolp

Engineers of MIT updating and explaining what happens on each core: http://mitnse.com/

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Engineers of MIT updating and explaining what happens on each core: http://mitnse.com/


This seems to mean that Reactor #2 is at one atmosphere pressure inside secondary containment(?). So only the primary containment is intact, and all future required pressure releases from primary containment go into the atmosphere?




> Loud noises were heard at Fukushima Daiichi 2 at 6.10am this morning. A major component beneath the reactor may be damaged.
> 
> Confirmation of loud sounds this morning came from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA). It noted that “the suppression chamber may be damaged.” It is not clear that the sounds were explosions.
> 
> Also known as the torus, this large doughnut-shaped structure sits in the centre of the reactor building at a lower level than the reactor. It contains a very large body of water to which steam can be directed in emergency situations. The steam then condenses and reduces pressure in the reactor system.
> 
> The pressure in the pool was seen to decrease from three atmospheres to one atmosphere after the noise, suggesting possible damage. Radiation levels on the edge of the plant compound briefly spiked at 8217 microsieverts per hour but later fell to about a third that.
> 
> A close watch is being kept on the radiation levels to ascertain the status of containment.

----------


## amy31416

> Well, having lived in Japan including Tokyo, I would say rude is the wrong word.  I speak Japanese and would guess it was probably partially your approach that made them *shy* away.  From my experience, chances are you did not come off to the people you were asking directions from as actually speaking Japanese.  And they were embarrassed that they could not speak English with you (they have had six years minimum in school, but still can't speak it).


Haha. You speak Japanese. You're all cultured and $#@!.

----------


## Acala

> Spoken as someone that has not considered the potential impact and has no clue.
> .


Written by someone who apparently didn't read what I wrote including the following: "it seems that there is still potential for serious problems and a major radiation release."

Is there some "potential impact" beyond this that you are aware of?  Or are you just sore because people are not swallowing whole the highly inflammatory, but technically inaccurate and misspelled, scuttlebutt?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Or are you just sore because people are not swallowing whole the highly inflammatory, but technically inaccurate and misspelled, scuttlebutt?


Scuzzlebutt? 

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...of-scuzzlebutt

----------


## KramerDSP

Reuters reports explosion at #4 building. Supposedly the containment roof is cracked. 2 workers are missing. Things just keep getting worse.

----------


## KramerDSP

RT @Reuters: FLASH: Japan nuclear safety agency says Fukushima No. 4 reactor roof is cracked

----------


## Acala

> RT @Reuters: FLASH: Japan nuclear safety agency says Fukushima No. 4 reactor roof is cracked


ruh roh

----------


## Danke

> Haha. You speak Japanese. You're all cultured and $#@!.


Well, not much anymore.  I have a great memory, it is just short...

But I spent over two years there, one as a high school exchange student.  And one of my majors is Japanese.

----------


## raiha

People all a bit tetchy this fine morning. 
Now it is SNOWING in the North. 6.1 aftershock. How bad can things get for those poor souls?

Oh Lord, new fire in reactor No 4. Oh no!!!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Well, not much anymore.  I have a great memory, it is just short...
> 
> But I spent over two years there, one as a high school exchange student.  And one of my majors is Japanese.


I always suspected you were a masochist....

----------


## ihsv

Drudge is having a field day

----------


## Carson

> You're welcome... yeah, spent fuel pool on #4 not adequate enough cooling and did you see the temperatures are rising on Reactors #5 & #6? I noticed on reactor #2, the building was listed damaged, then the next day Not Damaged, now it's back to slightly damaged.
> 
> US Nuke Experts put the current environmental impact at a 6 level, I say it's at least a 5, but Japan (NISA) still has it at a 4 over the past 72 hours. 
> 
> Chernobyl was rated a 7.5


So I'm hearing the score is six reactors having trouble now.? 

5 X 6 = 30 compared to the 7.5 of the Russians.

Some how I thinking we will find a way to top them all.

----------


## KramerDSP

#5 and #6 having troubles similar to #4. All three house the spent fuel rods.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

@off topic nonsense




> Drudge is having a field day


who led me to these particularly well funded guys, 




> ISIS is a non-profit, non-partisan institution dedicated to informing the public about science and policy issues affecting international security. Its efforts focus on stopping the spread of nuclear weapons, bringing about greater transparency of nuclear activities worldwide, and achieving deep reductions in nuclear arsenals.


who have stated, 




> ISIS assesses that the situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has worsened considerably.  The explosion in the Unit 2 reactor, the third so far, and the fire in the spent fuel pond in the reactor building for Unit 41 means that this accident can no longer be viewed as a level 4 on the International Nuclear and Radiological Events (INES) scale that ranks events from 1 to 7.  A level 4 incident involves only local radiological consequences.  This event is now closer to a level 6, and it may unfortunately reach a level 7. 
> 
> A level 6 event means that consequences are broader and countermeasures are needed to deal with the radioactive contamination.  A level 7 event would constitute a larger release of radioactive material, and would require further extended countermeasures. The international community should increase assistance to Japan to both contain the emergency at the reactors and to address the wider contamination. We need to find a solution together.


and it was on that page I found the link to UN's International Atomic Energy Agency "Earthquake Update" blog

where we find both good and bad news,




> All units at the Fukushima Daini, Onagawa, and Tokai nuclear power plants are in a safe and stable condition (i.e. cold shutdown).
> 
> The IAEA remains concerned over the status of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, where sea water injections to cool the reactors in Units 1, 2 and 3 are continuing. Attempts to return power to the entire Daiichi site are also continuing.
> 
> After explosions at both Units 1 and 3, the primary containment vessels of both Units are reported to be intact. However, the explosion that occurred at 21:14 UTC on 14 March at the Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2 may have affected the integrity of its primary containment vessel. All three explosions were due to an accumulation of hydrogen gas.


intense...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

(Reuters) - Japan has told the U.N. nuclear watchdog radioactivity was being released "directly" into the atmosphere...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Another case of the regulators in bed with those they regulate. Corporatism.




> (Reuters) - Greed in the nuclear industry and corporate influence over the U.N. watchdog for atomic energy may doom Japan to a spreading nuclear disaster, one of the men brought in to clean up Chernobyl said on Tuesday.
> ...
> Andreev said a fire which released radiation on Tuesday involving spent fuel rods stored close to reactors at Fukushima looked like an example of putting profit before safety:
> 
> "The Japanese were very greedy and they used every square inch of the space. But when you have a dense placing of spent fuel in the basin you have a high possibility of fire if the water is removed from the basin," Andreev said.
> 
> The IAEA should share blame for standards, he said, arguing it was too close to corporations building and running plants. And he dismissed an emergency incident team set up by the Vienna-based agency as "only a think-tank not a working force":
> ...
> Andreev said he understood all too well what the Japanese authorities in Fukushima were going through, and that creative solutions would be needed to contain the leaks.
> ...

----------


## KramerDSP

Breaking news - smoke rising over reactor

----------


## KramerDSP

Not sure if that was old footage, but it seemed like it was a constant stream of smoke coming out of Reactor 4. CNN hasn't shown that again in the last few moments, though....

----------


## nayjevin

> Another case of the regulators in bed with those they regulate. Corporatism.


Good catch.

And note the irresponsible thinking in that quote:




> The Japanese were very greedy...


Oh they were?  All of them?

----------


## KramerDSP

Reuters: FLASH: White smoke seen coming from No.4 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plant: report #fb

jkings1 JimK 
Confidence instiller. not . NHK showing smoke billowing from Fukushima nuke plant. White smoke. Bad situation still live and developing.

----------


## KramerDSP

NHK World Live Stream - http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/r/movie/

----------


## KramerDSP

Fukushima Screenshot - Smoke Rising... http://twitpic.com/49vr44

Damned if the haze in the area doesn't remind me of this footage:

----------


## cswake

Grabbed from another forum.  Here's a National Geographic scenario on spent nuclear fuel rods drying up (@5:50):

----------


## KramerDSP

That's scary stuff right there. Wow.

----------


## tpreitzel

> Lol. I love how everyone is talking just about the U.S.
> 
> Yeah! $#@! the Japanese!


Yeah, this attitude is somewhat disconcerting. If you're tempted to buy potassium iodide pills for yourself 5-7 THOUSAND miles away for the source of nuclear radiation,  pool your money with others instead and donate the stuff to the Japanese who REALLY could use it  Actually, this incident occurred in one of the better places, i.e. adjacent to huge masses of water with winds generally blowing from west to east at that latitude north of the equator. Hopefully, this situation will be largely contained primarily for the sake of the Japanese people.

----------


## QueenB4Liberty

> Grabbed from another forum.  Here's a National Geographic scenario on spent nuclear fuel rods drying up (@5:50):


Interesting video. I'm trying to find the whole thing now and can't find it.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Just released... JAIF's latest status of the the Fukushima Daichi reactors #1-6: March 16th, 0800L time.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300240000P.pdf

----------


## cswake

Interesting that the U.S. and Canadian Nuclear Reactors anticipate coolant loss in the spent fuel rods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spent_fuel_pool#Status




> Combustion of the nuclear fuel is not possible with American or Canadian electrical power reactor fuel rods since these consist of very stable uranium dioxide pellets. Burning of the cladding is unlikely since storage methods in the United States require fuel to be stored such that in the event of a catastrophic loss of coolant the steady state temperature of the fuel assemblies in air does not exceed the cladding melt temperature.

----------


## KramerDSP

At this point, I don't believe a word TEPCO says. To the untrained eye, it looks like things are going from bad to worse, and the chart does not corroborate that.

----------


## doodle

> NHK World Live Stream - http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/r/movie/


Thanks for posting this link, latest updates in English.

One tiny complaint with their media player, after spending one full minute, I have not been able to find the PAUSE button. I'm hoping they don't design their nuclear reactors same way : - )

Hopefully this is operator error, Japanese are known for attention to detail.

----------


## KramerDSP

UNCONFIRMED - Picture of Reactor #4 after the explosion/fires - http://twitpic.com/49w4mp/full

----------


## KramerDSP

> Thanks for posting this link, latest updates in English.
> 
> One tiny complaint with their media player, after spending one full minute, I have not been able to find the PAUSE button. I'm hoping they don't design their nuclear reactors same way : - )
> 
> Hopefully this is operator error, Japanese are known for attention to detail.


No problem. Would you mind posting relevant info? Without captions/subs, I have no chance

----------


## KramerDSP

From the UStream commentators, apparently "radiation is so high because unit 2 has melted through the suppression pool" and that 1sv is the measurement at the gate now. Basically, they feel that this guy is BSing through his teeth and being intentionally vague as not to cause a panic.

----------


## muzzled dogg

http://www.newser.com/story/114216/j...ed-friend.html

----------


## doodle

> No problem. Would you mind posting relevant info? Without captions/subs, I have no chance


Just watched for few. They have a copper in air 30Km from recators and can see white smoke coming out of there. Temp is rising at no.4 and no.5.
Then some opinions and speculation.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Just released... JAIF's latest status of the the Fukushima Daichi reactors #1-6: March 16th, 0800L time.
> 
> http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300240000P.pdf


Not good. #2 will be venting from the core into the no longer airtight containment (containment at one atmosphere pressure). And then we have 4, 5, and 6 ready to turn into open blazes of spent fuel. How would you evacuate Tokyo? Weather is going to play a big role.

----------


## YumYum

If these 50 workers can't hold out, its 'curtains'!

*Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers*

By KEITH BRADSHER and HIROKO TABUCHI
Published: March 15, 2011 

A small crew of technicians, braving radiation and fire, became the only people remaining at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station on Tuesday — and perhaps Japan’s last chance of preventing a broader nuclear catastrophe. 

They crawl through labyrinths of equipment in utter darkness pierced only by their flashlights, listening for periodic explosions as hydrogen gas escaping from crippled reactors ignites on contact with air.

They breathe through uncomfortable respirators or carry heavy oxygen tanks on their backs. They wear white, full-body jumpsuits with snug-fitting hoods that provide scant protection from the invisible radiation sleeting through their bodies.

They are the faceless 50, the unnamed operators who stayed behind. They have volunteered, or been assigned, to pump seawater on dangerously exposed nuclear fuel, already thought to be partly melting and spewing radioactive material, to prevent full meltdowns that could throw thousands of tons of radioactive dust high into the air and imperil millions of their compatriots.

They struggled on Tuesday and Wednesday to keep hundreds of gallons of seawater a minute flowing through temporary fire pumps into the three stricken reactors, Nos. 1, 2 and 3. Among the many problems they faced was what appeared to be yet another fire at the plant.

The workers are being asked to make escalating — and perhaps existential — sacrifices that so far are being only implicitly acknowledged: Japan’s Health Ministry said Tuesday it was raising the legal limit on the amount of radiation to which each worker could be exposed, to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts, five times the maximum exposure permitted for American nuclear plant workers. 

read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/wo...imes&seid=auto

----------


## raiha

The workers are leaving the plant! 
Who is going to keep the reactors covered? Robots? They are very heroic those people. I hope they are alright.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Breaking right now: Plant workers evacuating due to high radiation.

----------


## Cdn_for_liberty

watching AC360 now, update is that the workers at the nuclear plant have suspended their work due to high levels of radiation, unable to continue pouring water on the reactor.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Heroic.

Also, New Rule: The word "spew" is now hereby banned in any reporting on pollution, environmental issues, oil spills, industrial accidents or nuclear meltdowns.

FFS, msm reporters - www.thesaurus.com




> If these 50 workers can't hold out, its 'curtains'!
> 
> *Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers*
> 
> By KEITH BRADSHER and HIROKO TABUCHI
> Published: March 15, 2011 
> 
> A small crew of technicians, braving radiation and fire, became the only people remaining at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station on Tuesday — and perhaps Japan’s last chance of preventing a broader nuclear catastrophe. 
> 
> ...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> If these 50 workers can't hold out, its 'curtains'!
> 
> *Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers*


Too late. The last ones have fled.

----------


## YumYum

> Too late. The last ones have fled.


So, what's next?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> So, what's next?


If they don't send people back in? Open air fires at 4, 5 and 6 of spent fuel rods.

----------


## Texan4Life

> Too late. The last ones have fled.


any sources that the last 50 left?

sucks, but i give them props for staying this long.

----------


## YumYum

> any sources that the last 50 left?
> 
> sucks, but i give them props for staying this long.





> Japan’s chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano, is holding a news conference that is being broadcast live on Japanese television. Mr. Edano said radiation readings started rising rapidly Wednesday morning outside the front gate of the Fukushima Daiichi plant. “All the workers there have suspended their operations. We have urged them to evacuate, and they have,” he said, according to a translation by NHK television.


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ews-conference

----------


## nayjevin

Side note:  called my imaginary Japanese friend to see if I could help.  "No thanks, *All Americans Always* mean occupy when they say help."

----------


## ihsv

Unlocked!  Cool   Thanks!

----------


## ihsv

> Side note:  called my imaginary Japanese friend to see if I could help.  "No thanks, *All Americans Always* mean occupy when they say help."


Your imaginary friend is about 66 years behind the times.

----------


## YumYum

> The Times's Hiroko Tabuchi reports that a small group of workers remains at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, contrary to what an English translation of the chief cabinet secretary's remarks had implied.


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ews-conference

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> any sources that the last 50 left?
> 
> sucks, but i give them props for staying this long.


Thread was locked when I was answering that question... Source was Anderson Cooper, and he has backtracked now and said the 50 are staying for now. Bad report from AC, and it appears to be a translation error. Who knows, nothing is for sure while things are unfolding.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> If they don't send people back in? Open air fires at 4, 5 and 6 of spent fuel rods.


And complete core meltdown in 1, 2 and 3 with core containment on number 2 very possibly breached.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Thread was locked when I was answering that question... Source was Anderson Cooper, and he has backtracked now and said the 50 are staying for now. Bad report from AC, and he's hoping no one noticed...


Latest from Financial Times:

*Fire breaks out as reactor problems grow*

Japan  is facing an increasingly uphill battle to avert a major nuclear  disaster after a spate of new problems hit an earthquake-stricken  nuclear plant north of Tokyo - Mar 15 2011

*Companies and embassies look to withdraw*

Earthquake  disaster sparks confusion with some countries and companies calling for  evacuations but others adopting a wait-and-see approach after playing  down concerns - Mar 15 2011

*Chipmakers hit hard by earthquake*

Texas  Instruments has emerged as one of the foreign companies hardest hit by  the earthquake, as Apple delays the Japanese launch of iPad 2 - Mar 15 2011

*Struggle to cope with rising death toll*

The  growing number of fatalities adds to the strain of local officials, who  are already battling with the task of helping survivors - Mar 15 2011

*Stoic residents learn to cope in sombre capital*

In  the wake of the 6.1-magnitude quake that hit Shizuoka south-west of  Tokyo on Tuesday, people looked weary and flat but carried on texting or  reading the news on their mobile phones - Mar 15 2011

*Airlines start cancelling flights to Tokyo*

Lufthansa,  Air China and Eva Air cite the need to secure operations but an expert  close to the German flag carrier says it does not want to fly to an  increasingly risky area - Mar 15 2011

*Interactive: The Fukushima Daiichi reactors*

This  interactive graphic tracks events at Fukushima Daiichi six nuclear  reactors as engineers work to prevent a partial nuclear meltdown - Mar 15 2011

*Q&A: What is the impact of the latest explosion?*

The  latest explosion at the Fukushima nuclear power plants No 2 reactor  makes the Japanese disaster the worst since a reactor at Chernobyl in  Ukraine blew up 25 years ago - Mar 15 2011

*Interactive map: The Japan earthquake*

This interactive map shows the areas of greatest devastation and where Japans nuclear infrastructure is located - Mar 15 2011

*Speculation on further central bank boost*

The  Bank of Japan is often accused of doing too little too late, but most  analysts have applauded its decision to make Y21,800bn to ensure there  is plenty of cash in the system - Mar 15 2011

----------


## nayjevin

> Your imaginary friend is about 66 years behind the times.


Pointing out the absurdity of labeling an entire country's population with a specific characteristic, as in 'The Japanese are very irresponsible, just look at this incident.'

----------


## KramerDSP

I asked AF this in the other thread only because this was locked, but if anyone can pitch in...

If there are complete meltdowns on 1 and 3, and they are fully contained, what happens next?

Also, if 2 meltdowns, and there is indeed a breech, does this cause an explosion that could breach 1 and 3 's containment?

----------


## raiha

It is interesting, in the early days of all this, how some nuclear experts scoffed at the notion that this could turn into some kind of catastrophe. (Usually on the BBC).They had absolute faith in the technology and any nay-sayers were morons. It would be interesting to replay some of their 'expertise.'

----------


## KramerDSP

And of course, AF replied while I was typing my previous post:




> If everything holds together, meltdown of the core will be contained within the pressure vessel.
> 
> An explosion at 2 would more than likely be steam at first, then followed by burning fuel rods.
> 
> I don't think, based on my reading of all this, that it would be bad enough to breach containment on 1 and 3.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Pointing out the absurdity of labeling an entire country's population with a specific characteristic, as in 'The Japanese are very irresponsible, just look at this incident.'


That was a quote from a Russian, and you know they are collectivists...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> And of course, AF replied while I was typing my previous post:


I'd like to see TheState or XNavyNuke check in.

He has a degree in this.

I just have operational experience with marine and rail steam plants, and my dad's experience, he is a 688 class submarine repair tech with "hot" certification. He also was involved in the TMI response way back in the day.

----------


## YumYum

Yahoo just released this, so it must now be official:

*Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant*

By ERIC TALMADGE and SHINO YUASA, Associated Press Eric Talmadge And Shino Yuasa, Associated Press – 7 mins ago

FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japan suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said work on dousing reactors with water was disrupted by the need to withdraw.

The level of radiation at the plant surged to 1,000 millisieverts early Wednesday before coming down to 800-600 millisieverts. Still, that was far more than the average

"So the workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk, we are on standby."

Experts say exposure of around 1,000 millisieverts is enough to cause radiation sickness.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110316/...pan_earthquake

----------


## Anti Federalist

*U.S. Government Blocking Americans From Obtaining Potassium Iodide?* 

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-governme...assium-iodide/

“Yesterday afternoon (roughly 1400PST), the Urgent Care in Ventura, California, denied me a prescription for KI (potassium iodide): an over the counter, salt,” writes Michael (surname withheld). “The reason for denying me a prescription was predicated upon the Doctors conversation, with both CDC and DHSC representatives, whom discouraged it. After asking her if she took government orders, she replied, “No, but I do take their recommendations.”

“As KI is unavailable in Ventura right now and I was unable to get a prescription, which the pharmacy required, I am still without a supply of KI,” adds Michael.

----------


## YumYum

It looks like the container on number 3 is damaged.

*Fukushima No.3 reactor's container feared damaged: Edano*

TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

The container of the No.3 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant is feared to have been damaged and may have leaked radioactive steam Wednesday, emitting high-level radiation, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.

The radiation level briefly topped 6 milisievert per hour at the plant, the government's nucler safety agency said.

The explanations were given after smoke was seen rising from the No.3 reactor since around 8:30 a.m., according to Edano.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78466.html

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> It looks like the container on number 3 is damaged.
> 
> *Fukushima No.3 reactor's container feared damaged: Edano*
> 
> TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo
> 
> The container of the No.3 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant is feared to have been damaged and may have leaked radioactive steam Wednesday, emitting high-level radiation, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.
> 
> The radiation level briefly topped 6 milisievert per hour at the plant, the government's nucler safety agency said.
> ...


Great. Two reactors with containment breaches. This is a rock and a hard place. You need to release pressure in the primary core containment vessel or it explodes (from pressure, not a nuclear explosion). When you do release pressure, secondary containment is compromised, and you release too much radiation to keep working there. Just to make it more exciting, you have "dirty" fires from spent rods putting more radiation in the air. The cement sarcophagus solution is looking more and more likely...

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Yahoo just released this, so it must now be official:
> 
> *Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant*
> The level of radiation at the plant surged to 1,000 millisieverts early Wednesday before coming down to 800-600 millisieverts. Still, that was far more than the average
> 
> "So the workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk, we are on standby."
> 
> Experts say exposure of around 1,000 millisieverts is enough to cause radiation sickness.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110316/...pan_earthquake


 Officials reported on NHK television last hour, that radiation levels peaked at 6.4 milliseverts(6,400 microseiverts) @ 1045AM local. There weren't any measurements that high of 1 Seivert... The officials did state the press releases were misinformed of Millisieverts when they meant *Microseiverts in radiation levels.*

----------


## Fox McCloud

> The cement sarcophagus solution is looking more and more likely...


Yup...thing is though, they can't just start pouring in cement now--it could still explode and still cause problems.

----------


## AuH20

> Yup...thing is though, they can't just start pouring in cement now--it could still explode and still cause problems.


Who are they picking straws for that assignment?

----------


## Stary Hickory

Ok so they are asking for US help? What can the US military do that the Japanese cannot do? This sounds very bad if they are desperately asking for American intervention in this.

----------


## Roxi

> Officials reported on NHK television last hour, that radiation levels peaked at 6.4 milliseverts(6,400 microseiverts) @ 1045AM local. There weren't any measurements that high of 1 Seivert... The officials did state the press releases were misinformed of Millisieverts when they meant *Microseiverts in radiation levels.*


I heard that too. However I wonder then, why evac? Up to 2 Sv isn't that ig of a deal so 6.4mSv doesn't seem like enough for them to evacuate everyone. Seems off to me.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Yup...thing is though, they can't just start pouring in cement now--it could still explode and still cause problems.


Yeah, that would be tricky. Enough cement might create enough pressure outside the core vessel to keep it from blowing, but until you reach that point, you might have to release some pressure from inside the core. Then you have to pull back and stop operations until that release dissipates or blows away. Of course you need to know what's under the reactor too. Will the bottom breach into the water table or the ocean? Will the extra weight of the cement cause the bottom to breach? Every action carries a risk.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> I heard that too. However I wonder then, why evac? Up to 2 Sv isn't that ig of a deal so 6.4mSv doesn't seem like enough for them to evacuate everyone. Seems off to me.


As Osan stated... we won't get the absolute truth. Obviously the US and their sophisticated intel satellite network can tell everything that's going on (imagery, radiation, Thermal, etc etc... but you won't see them disclosing anything. If we hear about a Run Signal to the US embassy in Tokyo, then it's time to worry.

Look at this mess

----------


## Kylie

Jesus.

----------


## Stary Hickory

I think the bubonic plague needs to strike Japan next

Or maybe a nice epidemic of malaria

Swarms of locusts......something like that.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Unit 3 is a priority. It contains plutonium (in MOX form), which none of the other Units have. Plutonium is the most poisonous and longest lasting of all radioactive materials (that might be released).




> Scientists warned this week of yet another complication in Japan’s  nuclear crisis: One of the doomed reactors is loaded with mixed-oxide fuel that contains plutonium.
> 
> “This sort of plutonium fuel is more difficult to control than uranium fuel,” said Arjun Makhijani, a nuclear scientist and the president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research.
> ...
> The rods, made by blending small amounts of plutonium with traditional uranium, were loaded into Unit 3 of the Fukushima Dai - ichi nuclear plant last September.
> 
> http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-...s?v=1300207054

----------


## raiha

The workers have gone back in according to CNN. Geez they must be superhuman. The radiation is fluctuating and it is low again apparently. Lowish.

----------


## Matt Collins

> I think the bubonic plague needs to strike Japan next
> 
> Or maybe a nice epidemic of malaria
> 
> Swarms of locusts......something like that.


A typhoon is on it's way.

----------


## Matt Collins

> *U.S. Government Blocking Americans From Obtaining Potassium Iodide?* 
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/u-s-governme...assium-iodide/
> 
> Yesterday afternoon (roughly 1400PST), the Urgent Care in Ventura, California, denied me a prescription for KI (potassium iodide): an over the counter, salt, writes Michael (surname withheld). The reason for denying me a prescription was predicated upon the Doctors conversation, with both CDC and DHSC representatives, whom discouraged it. After asking her if she took government orders, she replied, No, but I do take their recommendations.
> 
> As KI is unavailable in Ventura right now and I was unable to get a prescription, which the pharmacy required, I am still without a supply of KI, adds Michael.


Infowars is about as reliable and accurate as the Japanese government, TEPCO, or the MSM.

----------


## ord33

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42100791

_



			
				The Obama administration will study distribution policies for a drug to protect against the effects of radiation as part of a review of the implications of Japan's ongoing nuclear disaster, a government spokeswoman said on Tuesday.


Getty Images 
A bottle of Potassium Iodide is seen at the West Marin Pharmacy in Point Reyes Station, California. There has been a rush on potassium iodide tablets and strong iodine solution in the United States following Japan's nuclear crisis. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new review would reopen a debate sought by safety activists who have called for a greater stockpile of potassium iodide near U.S. nuclear plants.

Debate over the supply has become politically charged, even as U.S. consumers cleaned out some retailers of their stocks of the medicine in recent days with an eye on Japan's struggles to contain the damage at its Fukushima nuclear plant.
			
		

_

That doesn't seem too different of a story to me.

----------


## ord33

Also in the article is this:




> Markey spokeswoman Giselle Barry said his staff estimates U.S. agencies have purchased about 2 million KI tablets in the past decade, plus about 400,000 liquid doses for children. Some will expire soon, however.
> 
> The drug - chemically similar to table salt - is also sold by some pharmacies; a number of them on the West Coast have sold out in recent days, even as public health officials noted that the drug can be dangerous to people with allergies to shellfish or thyroid problems.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/42100791


I'm not an expert by any means, but only 2 million tablets for the entire country? How many tablets are supposed to be consumed by an individual per day. If I remember correctly, it suggests taking them for 10 days. In a scenario where there was a quick release of radiation near an even moderate sized city it seems these numbers are nowhere near sufficient.

----------


## susano

That mangled mess on the left is #3, the one that was using MOX fuel. Think the spent rod pool is still there?

----------


## susano

Several high res pictures

http://www.digitalglobe.com/image.php?id=922

----------


## BamaAla

> http://www.cnbc.com/id/42100791
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't seem too different of a story to me.


There isn't any to be found around here either. I searched high and low this weekend and only came away with two of the small bottles of liquid. I did, however, order several boxes of the iosat stuff, but the Lord only knows how long that will take to arrive. 

I've been kicking myself for not having any on hand prior to this as I'm only about 30 miles from Browns Ferry.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> There isn't any to be found around here either. I searched high and low this weekend and only came away with two of the small bottles of liquid. I did, however, order several boxes of the iosat stuff, but the Lord only knows how long that will take to arrive. 
> 
> I've been kicking myself for not having any on hand prior to this as I'm only about 30 miles from Browns Ferry.


Cue the price system jacking up prices so only those that need it most will actually buy it. Isn't capitalism amazing? (and no, I'm not being sarcastic here at all, my statement is genuine).

----------


## BamaAla

> Cue the price system jacking up prices so only those that need it most will actually buy it. Isn't capitalism amazing? (and no, I'm not being sarcastic here at all, my statement is genuine).


The bottles I found on the shelf as well as the stuff I ordered online was fairly cheap: 2 x $5 and 10 x $10 respectively. I did see some ebay auctions and Amazon vendors with absurd prices though.

Edit: I see now that I ordered just in time.




> Notice: As of March 14, 2011, Anbex is out of stock of IOSAT(tm). New product is expected by April 18, 2011.


http://www.anbex.com/

Edit deux: This website talks about the price gouging and lists some foods that are high in iodine. This may be an option for those who can't get their hands on the tablets or liquid.

http://www.naturalnews.com/031716_po...e_gouging.html




> What many people don't realize, however, is that the iodine found in these expensive, and now out-of-stock, iodine supplements is the same iodine that you can naturally find in many foods. Iodine-rich sea vegetables like kombu and kelp that cost just a few dollars contain very high levels of natural iodine. According to a 2006 review in the Vegetarian Journal, a single 1/10-inch sheet of kombu seaweed contains 150 mg of iodine. And less than a 1/4 teaspoon of kelp contains 150 mg of iodine (http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2006is...).
> 
> Pectin-rich foods like apples are also beneficial for cleansing the body of radioactive materials. According to the book Fighting Radiation and Chemical Pollutants with Foods, Herbs and Vitamins, pectin binds to radioactive compounds and chelates them from bodily tissues and the bloodstream. It then flushes them out of the body (http://www.livestrong.com/article/3...). And pectin supplements can also be purchased very inexpensively.
> 
> Both chlorella and spirulina, two deep-sea algaes known for their incredible cleansing and healing powers, are also excellent at protecting against radiation toxicity. Chlorella neutralizes radiation and effectively removes it from the body, along with various other heavy metals and toxins like mercury (http://www.naturalnews.com/031708_i...). And spirulina is a highly effective "medical food" that was used during the Chernobyl crisis to treat children suffering from radiation poisoning.
> 
> Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031716_po...#ixzz1Gl1OyyQ0

----------


## devil21

I got a bottle of KI about a year ago.  Kinda saw the writing on the wall, though Im not west coast.   Seems like something everyone should have since nuke plants are everywhere, but especially on the east coast.

----------


## Doug8796

where do you get KI?

----------


## amy31416

> where do you get KI?


Natural supplement stores. It'll be labeled as potassium iodide, but kelp supplements also have a decent amount of KI. Don't go crazy if you find it, it can have adverse effects on the thyroid.

Many stores in the US are allegedly sold out now though. For those who have emergency packs or are into disaster preparedness, it's a must-have.

----------


## angelatc

> There isn't any to be found around here either. I searched high and low this weekend and only came away with two of the small bottles of liquid. I did, however, order several boxes of the iosat stuff, but the Lord only knows how long that will take to arrive. 
> 
> I've been kicking myself for not having any on hand prior to this as I'm only about 30 miles from Browns Ferry.


The nuclear plants in Michigan will hand them out to people who live near them. Just learned that on the news last night.  They did a spot on people who love Fermi (a plant that had a tornado pass between its two stacks last year) and they all said they keep them on hand.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle1543367.ece

Helicopters unable to drop water over Japans nuclear reactor

High levels of radiation prevented helicopters on Wednesday from dropping water over a quake and tsunami-damaged nuclear reactor in north-eastern Japan, a news report said.

Military helicopters have been unable to pour water over reactor number 3 at a power plant in Fukushima, whose cooling systems failed after Fridays magnitude-9 earthquake and tsunami, the public broadcaster NHK reported.

The inner shell of the reactor might be damaged and a release of radioactive steam was feared, the government said earlier in the day.

====

One of the talking heads said earlier this morn that: "The inner containment vessel has been confirmed to not had a *major* breach"

The bolded word was spoken in a subdued voice and quickly.  Translation: The inner containment vessel has been breached.

----------


## kahless

> Helicopters unable to drop water over Japan’s nuclear reactor
> 
> High levels of radiation prevented helicopters on Wednesday from dropping water over a quake and tsunami-damaged nuclear reactor in north-eastern Japan, a news report said.


I have been wondering about this for the last few days whether there is any kind of gear they can wear that could protect them.  I suppose the lead suits and oxygen tanks either won't fit or are too cumbersome in the helicopter or are unable to provide enough protection or perhaps they are still trying to do something like that.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest Status Report on the reactors from JAIF: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300273535P.pdf

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I have been wondering about this for the last few days whether there is any kind of gear they can wear that could protect them.  I suppose the lead suits and oxygen tanks either won't fit or are too cumbersome in the helicopter or are unable to provide enough protection or perhaps they are still trying to do something like that.


I'm surprised they are not using drones.  The downside would be re-fueling and what to do with it when it's not working.  We have a llot of experience dropping water on forest fires and equipment just for that, but those aren't drones.  Chopper would be harder to remote pilot, but I'm pretty sure we have the technology.

====
In other news, FOX is saying the crack in reactor #3's inner containment has disappeared , but the #4 reactor has caught fire again for the second time this morning and someone on site describes the situation as "not good".

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Anyone know whats happening with that second reactor complex that was damaged and at risk?  Started with an "O"....  very little info on that one.

----------


## mommaliberty

i know Eniva has some KI and they're ramping up production to make sure there's plenty available:

http://www.eniva.com/products.php?pid=3&prodId=54

----------


## specsaregood

> I'm not an expert by any means, but only 2 million tablets for the entire country? How many tablets are supposed to be consumed by an individual per day. If I remember correctly, it suggests taking them for 10 days. In a scenario where there was a quick release of radiation near an even moderate sized city it seems these numbers are nowhere near sufficient.


It is plenty to supply the elite and their immediate servants.  You weren't expecting the govt to take care of you, were you?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Markey spokeswoman Giselle Barry said his staff estimates U.S. agencies have purchased about 2 million KI tablets in the past decade, plus about 400,000 liquid doses for children. *Some will expire soon*, however.





> Also in the article is this:
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/42100791
> 
> 
> I'm not an expert by any means, but only 2 million tablets for the entire country? How many tablets are supposed to be consumed by an individual per day. If I remember correctly, it suggests taking them for 10 days. In a scenario where there was a quick release of radiation near an even moderate sized city it seems these numbers are nowhere near sufficient.


14 days, generally 2 a day.  So that's about 74,500 treatments for a population of 310,000,000

Also note the "expiration date".  According to our corporate masters and laws, it is illegal to take an expired drug.  You know - legal liability.  It's much better from a corporate perspective for you to DIE than for them to get sued.  It also boosts profits as these drugs have to be replaced with "fresh" drugs, despite that they are fully potent for years after that date.

-t

----------


## Roxi

Rosemary Found to Offer Best Protection against Radiation Poisoning

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/026079_ro...#ixzz1GlyamBkX

----------


## kahless

> In other news, FOX is saying the crack in reactor #3's inner containment has disappeared , but the #4 reactor has caught fire again for the second time this morning and someone on site describes the situation as "not good".


The Foxnews propaganda of outright lies with this disaster yesterday and today is really over the top.  It is obvious they are trying to make sure people do not know the truth to keep people calm and to give cover to our nuclear industry. Next they will be saying radiation is good for you. 

O'Reilly really made an ass of himself last night saying it is not that bad, criticizing the media and angered by a clip of a guy he shows that says they will need to start dropping water from helicopters.

----------


## Acala

> That mangled mess on the left is #3, the one that was using MOX fuel. Think the spent rod pool is still there?


It's just a flesh wound.

----------


## s35wf

> Rosemary Found to Offer Best Protection against Radiation Poisoning
> 
> Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/026079_ro...#ixzz1GlyamBkX


THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS!

Lines of DEFENSE Against radiation posining:
1.  Potassium Iodide (K1)
2.  iODINE/kELP
3.  Rosemary
4.  Evacuate/Stay Inside

Good Luck to Everyone Everywhere!
PEACE!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Good article on reactors #4, 5 and 6

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12762608

----------


## Roxi

> THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS!
> 
> Lines of DEFENSE Against radiation posining:
> 1.  Potassium Iodide (K1)
> 2.  iODINE/kELP
> 3.  Rosemary
> 4.  Evacuate/Stay Inside
> 
> Good Luck to Everyone Everywhere!
> PEACE!



No problem! Unfortunately I have to stay away from Rosemary during pregnancy, but I am stocking up on Kelp.

----------


## s35wf

> No problem! Unfortunately I have to stay away from Rosemary during pregnancy, but I am stocking up on Kelp.


Natural News Has Nascent Iodine for those looking!  also Foods containing Natural Iodine:  http://www.naturalnews.com/031717_io...egetables.html

----------


## Vessol

When you start talking about using helicopters in a situation like this, it is completely out of control.

----------


## Acala

> When you start talking about using helicopters in a situation like this, it is completely out of control.


Yes.  I kinda wonder why they are only now getting around to clearing a road to the site.  Nobody thought they "might" want to get some heavy equipment in there?  Oh well.  Hindsight is always perfect.

----------


## s35wf

Dr. Russell Blaylock on stopping/decreasing effects of Radiation poisening:http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/headlin...#ixzz1Gix0uonj

If radiation does arrive in the United States, people would need “to change their diet. They need to stop eating Western farm products,” Blaylock says.

They might also need to take several supplements that can protect against the effects of radiation, he suggests.

“Taking these supplements not only protects you against radiation but a lot of other diseases including cancer, brain degeneration.”

Among the supplements he cited, iodine can protect the thyroid gland if taken before the exposure to radiation.

Gingko biloba can be protective even after exposure to radiation. Beta-glucan protects the bone marrow. Curcumin also can offer protection after exposure, particularly against breast cancer. He also suggests garlic extract, ginger, melatonin, and magnesium.

Read more: Dr. Blaylock: Japan Radiation Could Pose Threat to US

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Latest Status Report on the reactors from JAIF: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300273535P.pdf



I remember seeing that sheet last Friday, almost all green with one red spot, and just a few yellows. When were done it will be all red.... or maybe black indicating "gone"

----------


## Roxi

Fox just announced that the government in Japan has tripled the level of radiation the workers can be exposed to. WTF?

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Fox just announced that the government in Japan has tripled the level of radiation the workers can be exposed to. WTF?


Kamikaze

----------


## muzzled dogg

source?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> I remember seeing that sheet last Friday, almost all green with one red spot, and just a few yellows. When were doe it will be all red.... or maybe black indicating "gone"


 Notice the *RED* has been removed from the 3 Water injection/venting lines for reactors 1-3? Just uncolored... every bit of manipulation even in a chart. With the building severely damaged (cracked, all blowed-up) I presume one could say ... yeah reactors, 1,2, & 3 are venting... so did 3 Mile and Chernobyl.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

news reported US forces ordered to stay at least 50 miles away.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,7701045.story

Authorities estimated that about 70% of the fuel rods in reactor No. 1 had been damaged and about 30% of the rods in reactor No. 2. Those were merely estimates, however, because they have no direct way to measure the extent of damage.

----------


## Roxi

> source?


my tv?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> In other news, FOX is saying the crack in reactor #3's inner containment has disappeared


Yeah, it's at one atmosphere pressure now and the pressure hasn't dropped since...  





> That mangled mess on the left is #3, the one that was using MOX fuel. Think the spent rod pool is still there?


Luckily, the MOX fuel (containing plutonium) was a fairly recent addition, so there probably isn't any spent MOX fuel at the site. Whether the active fuel has leaked is a separate question.

----------


## specsaregood

> Yeah, it's at one atmosphere pressure now and the pressure hasn't dropped since...


Maybe you were being funny, but I wouldn't expect it to go down from 1 ATM.

----------


## Roxi

Very interesting

http://mitnse.com/

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Maybe you were being funny, but I wouldn't expect it to go down from 1 ATM.


Exactly. 

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. It would not be a surprise if the officials based their evaluation of containment on the fact that pressure was no longer dropping.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

No water left at Unit #4 spent fuel pool.




> There is no water left in the spent fuel pool of reactor 4 at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant, resulting in "extremely high" radiation levels, the chair of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission warns.
> 
> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...an-reactor:-US

----------


## susano

Shepard Smith has been reporting that the US Nuclear Agency has said there is NO WATER in the spent rod pool of number four. If that's right, that's catastrophic. 

I also don't see how there can even be a spent rod pool left in building three!!!

----------


## teacherone

Don't forget to fill out your brackets!




> One of the things I wanted to do on the show was, as people are filling out their brackets -- this is obviously a national pastime; we all have a great time, it’s a great diversion.  But I know a lot of people are thinking how can they help the Japanese people during this time of need.  If you go to usaid.gov -- usaid.gov -- that will list all the nonprofits, the charities that are helping out there.  It would be wonderful for people to maybe offer a little help to the Japanese people at this time -- as they’re filling out their brackets.  It’s not going to take a lot of time.  That's usaid.gov.  It could be really helpful. ---- *President Obama*


http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/...-ncaa-brackets

----------


## susano

> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/...-ncaa-brackets


What does "filling out their brackets" mean???

----------


## teacherone

> What does "filling out their brackets" mean???


gambling on basketball...

apparently it's a national pastime.

----------


## Acala

> Shepard Smith has been reporting that the US Nuclear Agency has said there is NO WATER in the spent rod pool of number four. If that's right, that's catastrophic. 
> 
> I also don't see how there can even be a spent rod pool left in building three!!!


I guess there is the possibility that the spent rod pool - which isn't limited to spent rods at the moment - could start up a chain reaction if it goes dry unless it has enough barriers between the rods.  If so, they would have no way to control it.  It would lead to a full melt down in the open.  Not good.  Serious release of radioactive material.

----------


## Acala

> Don't forget to fill out your brackets!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/...-ncaa-brackets


Obama is the Douchelord.

(I just saw that term used on a hilarious prank "lost dog" poster aimed at someone's buddy)

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Don't forget to fill out your brackets!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/...-ncaa-brackets


This is obviously a typo.  He clearly wants us to each fill a bucket with water and FedEx it to the reactors.

-t

----------


## TheState

> I guess there is the possibility that the spent rod pool - which isn't limited to spent rods at the moment - could start up a chain reaction if it goes dry unless it has enough barriers between the rods.  If so, they would have no way to control it.  It would lead to a full melt down in the open.  Not good.  Serious release of radioactive material.


The fuel rods could melt without any water cooling them, but they can't go critical (sustain a chain reaction). They need water as a moderator to achieve criticality.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

I thought the TEPCO/NUKE plan of the day was to drive in Firetrucks to water the reactors down... That's the word from NHK television with government officials explained, Fukushima, etc.

Anybody else hear that?  No US Navy water pumps?

----------


## Acala

> The fuel rods could melt without any water cooling them, but they can't go critical (sustain a chain reaction). They need water as a moderator to achieve criticality.


Meaning that the water slows down the neutrons enough to trigger reactions in the other fuel when they would otherwise sail on by?

So water acts to both cool the fuel and support the chain reaction?  In the core there are also control rods that interfere with the chain reaction by absorbing neutrons, right?

So is a meltdown ALWAYS the result of decay heat rather than reaction heat?  

I guess Chernobyl was first a steam explosion that happened while the chain reaction was still ongoing, but that would have stopped immediately followed by a melt down of that part of the core that had not been blown out of the top of the reactor?

----------


## Roxi

Last I heard they were trying to run an outside electricity line into the plant to get it up and running again. That sounds a little ludicrous but hey whatever.

And I am sick of hearing about Obama filling out his damn brackets. It took me all of 15 minutes to fill out my bracket and I don't see what this has to do with anything. I mean, I can't stand the guy, but damn, let him fill out his brackets!

....and maybe he was filling out his world brackets..last nation standing wins?

----------


## TheState

> Meaning that the water slows down the neutrons enough to trigger reactions in the other fuel when they would otherwise sail on by?


Exactly, the fission only occurs with neutrons of a certain energy range (in this case they're called "slow" neutrons b/c they lost most their energy). 




> So water acts to both cool the fuel and support the chain reaction?  In the core there are also control rods that interfere with the chain reaction by absorbing neutrons, right?


Correct on both accounts, the control rods are made of materials that absorb neutrons without fissioning. In Chernobyl, water cooled the reactor, but graphite was the material that actually "moderated" the neutrons.




> So is a meltdown ALWAYS the result of decay heat rather than reaction heat? 
> 
> I guess Chernobyl was first a steam explosion that happened while the chain reaction was still ongoing, but that would have stopped immediately followed by a melt down of that part of the core that had not been blown out of the top of the reactor?


Chernobyl had the problem of a positive void coefficient since it was graphite moderated. What this means is when the water boiled, power went up. The reactors in Japan and the US have negative void coefficients since the water acts as the moderator too. So when the water boils and voids appear, power goes down. 

You can have a meltdown with the reactor at power, but it's much more difficult to have happen in reactors with negative void coefficients. As soon as you got hot enough to start boiling, power would start decreasing. You would need some other event keeping power high.

You are correct about chernobyl. Power went up so fast that water started flashing to steam and exploded the core. What was left of the core couldn't be cooled and just sat there and melted (and probably still is molten today). 

You have a great understanding of this! I'm impressed! hah

----------


## One Last Battle!

Out of curiosity, why did Chernobyl use graphite rather than light water as a moderator? Wouldn't graphite be more expensive, etc in addition to being much less safe? Or was there some advantage to it?

----------


## TheState

> Out of curiosity, why did Chernobyl use graphite rather than light water as a moderator? Wouldn't graphite be more expensive, etc in addition to being much less safe? Or was there some advantage to it?


I've heard several reasons for this, but the one I'm inclined to believe is that it allowed the reactor to be converted for plutonium production to make bombs. I'll have to ask some people tomorrow who know better than me though.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> Exactly, the fission only occurs with neutrons of a certain energy range (in this case they're called "slow" neutrons b/c they lost most their energy). 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct on both accounts, the control rods are made of materials that absorb neutrons without fissioning. In Chernobyl, water cooled the reactor, but graphite was the material that actually "moderated" the neutrons.
> 
> 
> 
> Chernobyl had the problem of a positive void coefficient since it was graphite moderated. What this means is when the water boiled, power went up. The reactors in Japan and the US have negative void coefficients since the water acts as the moderator too. So when the water boils and voids appear, power goes down. 
> ...


So in your honest opinion---is this being way overhyped by the media? It seems there is some legitimate concern, but, overall, a number seem to be using it to bolster their anti-nuclear arguments.

Also, it deviates from the topic at hand a bit, but what's your opinion on Thorium reactors moderated with fluoride? I've heard that these are self-regulating due to the fluoride's freezing/boiling temp and that they produce significantly less waste (in addition to more power), but the main reason they never caught one was due to nuclear weapon interest by the US government during the cold war and nuclear interest in current fuel fabrication techniques/processes (as they're very profitable).

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Overhyped? - how about underhyped?
#1-3 in full to partial meltdown
#4 on fire
#5-6 headed the direction of #4
resorting to desperate measures like dropping water from helo
basically, totally out of control is how I read it.  Each hour, each day is worse than before.

And then there is that other reactor complex that is damaged but under control right now - at least till the next earthquake and they keep getting mag 6+ ones.

seems to me like the media is trying to calm the US public, if anything.

-t

----------


## TheState

> So in your honest opinion---is this being way overhyped by the media? It seems there is some legitimate concern, but, overall, a number seem to be using it to bolster their anti-nuclear arguments.


I believe it is being overhyped, as things with nuclear stuff always are. It's not that there isn't a BIG risk, there definitely is, but in comparison to the disaster that just happened, it's not close. 

Look at Chernobyl for example. That was a worst case scenario. An energetic expulsion of core materials, no containment, and horrible evacuation (since the USSR was hesitant to tell people). Even with all that, only about 50 people died immediately from the radiation (and that was bc of some poor firefighter training). There was obviously some effects on cancer rates (especially thyroid cancer in children, but at least that's usually treatable), but you have to remember that 50% of people get cancer anyway, so it's tough to get good numbers (especially where people smoke and drink a lot like in the Ukraine), and that was in the heart of Europe. 

Compare that to Japan where even if material is released, it's not energetic, it's been given days to decay, it will be a slow release, there's been great evacuation, and most material would probably blow over the sea. So yes there would still be a hazard if there was big release, but at worst, it'd be big economic disaster, not a huge health hazard. 

I don't want to downplay it b/c it could be a major problem, but it's not something I expect to kill thousands of people or anything and it's taking attention away from the other destruction the earthquake and tsunami caused. 




> Also, it deviates from the topic at hand a bit, but what's your opinion on Thorium reactors moderated with fluoride? I've heard that these are self-regulating due to the fluoride's freezing/boiling temp and that they produce significantly less waste (in addition to more power), but the main reason they never caught one was due to nuclear weapon interest by the US government during the cold war and nuclear interest in current fuel fabrication techniques/processes (as they're very profitable).


I'll answer this in a bit, I wanted to get that first bit out first.

----------


## Acala

> Chernobyl had the problem of a positive void coefficient since it was graphite moderated. What this means is when the water boiled, power went up. The reactors in Japan and the US have negative void coefficients since the water acts as the moderator too. So when the water boils and voids appear, power goes down.


Let's see if I get this.  Japanese and US reactors rely on water to moderate the neutrons, pulling them down into the proper energy range for reaction.  If the water boils, the voids (bubbles) allow more neutrons to escape at non-reactive higher energy so the chain reaction slows down.  In the Chernobyl reactor, water was also present but graphite was used to moderate the fast neutrons and slow them down into the reactive range.  So here's the part I want to see if I get: the cooling water is still going to be exerting a moderating effect, but maybe the water plus the graphite are slowing down some neutrons below the critical energy level?  Then when the water boils, the voids allow neutrons that were going too slow to speed up into the reactive range?  So the graphite is still slowing down the fast ones into reactive range but the boiling water starts to let the slow ones speed up too?  Have I got a clue?




> You have a great understanding of this! I'm impressed! hah


Thanks.  I was a chemist in another life.

----------


## TheState

> Let's see if I get this.  Japanese and US reactors rely on water to moderate the neutrons, pulling them down into the proper energy range for reaction.  If the water boils, the voids (bubbles) allow more neutrons to escape at non-reactive higher energy so the chain reaction slows down.  In the Chernobyl reactor, water was also present but graphite was used to moderate the fast neutrons and slow them down into the reactive range.  So here's the part I want to see if I get: the cooling water is still going to be exerting a moderating effect, but maybe the water plus the graphite are slowing down some neutrons below the critical energy level?  Then when the water boils, the voids allow neutrons that were going too slow to speed up into the reactive range?  So the graphite is still slowing down the fast ones into reactive range but the boiling water starts to let the slow ones speed up too?  Have I got a clue?


That's pretty close, the water will moderate some, but water is not as good of a moderator as graphite and actually absorbs some neutrons (not very much, but a little). So when you go through the actual neutronics calculation, water actually looks like an absorber or poison to the RBMK reactor (the chernobyl design). So with the water gone, now NO neutrons will be absorbed, but the graphite will be able to slow down ALL the neutrons, so the neutron flux will increase.

----------


## Acala

> That's pretty close, the water will moderate some, but water is not as good of a moderator as graphite and actually absorbs some neutrons (not very much, but a little). So when you go through the actual neutronics calculation, water actually looks like an absorber or poison to the RBMK reactor (the chernobyl design). So with the water gone, now NO neutrons will be absorbed, but the graphite will be able to slow down ALL the neutrons, so the neutron flux will increase.


Thanks.  Great to have your input here.

----------


## TheState

> Thanks.  Great to have your input here.


Glad to help, wish it was under better circumstances though.

----------


## raiha

How do you know so much about all this The State? I'm dead impressed with Acala and your conversation.

----------


## TheState

> How do you know so much about all this The State? I'm dead impressed with Acala and your conversation.


I'm a nuclear engineering PhD student at Ohio State and my focus area is reactor safety (probabilistic risk assessment).

----------


## Acala

> I'm a nuclear engineering PhD student at Ohio State and my focus area is reactor safety (probabilistic risk assessment).


Very cool.  Please continue to chime in here with your expertise.

----------


## 00_Pete

> I'm a nuclear engineering PhD student at Ohio State and my focus area is reactor safety (probabilistic risk assessment).


You mean reactor UNsafety?

----------


## Acala

> You mean reactor UNsafety?


Yes, because hundreds of nuclear generating stations around the world, not to mention most of the US Navy, running for decades without a single death, other than the uncontained Chernobyl, is a horrible safety record.

----------


## One Last Battle!

> You mean reactor UNsafety?


obvious troll is obvious

Also, anonymous is a CIA front

----------


## kahless

> Yes, because hundreds of nuclear generating stations around the world, not to mention most of the US Navy, running for decades without a single reported death or illness publicized in the MSM, other than the uncontained Chernobyl, is a horrible safety record.


Corrected that for you.   I am going to make a claim to.  The MSM always reports everything truthfully, corporations and politicians are always honest.

----------


## Mogambo Guru

> I'm a nuclear engineering PhD student at Ohio State and my focus area is reactor safety (probabilistic risk assessment).


So how much "energy" is at the site in fuku(including spent fuel rods) as compared to chernobyl, any idea?  

Could this possibly break the primary containment, and if so, what happens then?

..and what does it mean for the spent fuel rods that dont have any water in the containment pool??  as far as I know there is not the same containment measures around those rods as there is around the active reactors.

----------


## KramerDSP

I was under the impression there is NO graphite at Fukushima. I assume you guys were talking about Chernobyl.

Edited - *(NEVERMIND.... Confirmed)*

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Okay JAIF has released the latest status report (March 16, 2011 1900L):  http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300273535P.pdf

----------


## KramerDSP

Does anyone know how far inland the Tsnumai traveled in the towns closest to the epicenter of the Quake ?

----------


## Acala

> Corrected that for you.   I am going to make a claim to.  The MSM always reports everything truthfully, corporations and politicians are always honest.


Got any evidence to the contrary?  I'm open to hear it.

I'm actually not a shill for nuclear power.  I think the market should decide and it may decide that it is unsafe, uneconomical, or is not competitive with other alternatives.  But I think it should decide based on reason and not emotion.

By the way, I think a case can be made that the MSM - especially Hollywood - has done everything possible to demonize nuclear power.  Possibly at the behest of competing energy providers.  Not that big oil would ever do anything underhanded like that.

----------


## Carson

> Thanks for posting this link, latest updates in English.
> 
> One tiny complaint with their media player, after spending one full minute, I have not been able to find the PAUSE button. I'm hoping they don't design their nuclear reactors same way : - )
> 
> Hopefully this is operator error, Japanese are known for attention to detail.


This is a live broadcast so I guess they don't add a pause button. I've noticed that before with live feeds. It would be nice though so you could pause it and watch or listen to something else.


P.S. I just found a pause button if that helps any. You have to right click and pause is in the drop down list.

----------


## TheState

> So how much "energy" is at the site in fuku(including spent fuel rods) as compared to chernobyl, any idea?


It's hard to compare. I'm not sure how much fuel is being stored at Fukushima and where it's being stored exactly (I keep hearing conflicting reports).   




> Could this possibly break the primary containment, and if so, what happens then?


I think that's definitely a possibility for some of the reactors at Fukushima. If it does happen, hopefully it will just be a small breach in containment that will allow only the noble gases to release, and not the heavier fission products. The worst breach would be if it somehow melted through the vessel and hit a pool of water causing steam to be formed fast and material to be thrown into the air. 

Once again though, even that worst case isn't as bad as Chernobyl where the explosion threw stuff everywhere and there was lots of heat involved which allowed aerosols to rise and travel further.




> ..and what does it mean for the spent fuel rods that dont have any water in the containment pool??  as far as I know there is not the same containment measures around those rods as there is around the active reactors.


You're right and this is actually worrying me a little more than the reactors. There is not a robust containment around where they were storing fuel. Without heat removal, this fuel could melt. Once again, it would cause a release of the radioactive noble gases, but unless there was some energetic trigger, most material would just stay there. It SHOULD also be a slow release, which helps a lot.

I'm trying to look more into this bc I usually look at release from reactor accidents, not spent fuel pools. People do look into this, but it's just not my specialty. I'll try to find some more info on it.

----------


## Carson

> Out of curiosity, why did Chernobyl use graphite rather than light water as a moderator? Wouldn't graphite be more expensive, etc in addition to being much less safe? Or was there some advantage to it?


I'm thinking it was the norm at the time. As I adjust the onion hanging from my belt.

----------


## tpreitzel

Some of you need to get a grip ... on reality.  Get a grip! 

I can see making some preparations outside Japan, e.g. taking KELP, not potassium iodide, since sufficient time exists to react RATIONALLY to this remote crisis. Leave the stocks of potassium iodide to EMERGENCIES such as the one IN Japan, i.e. very limited time spans which certainly doesn't equal a couple of weeks ...

----------


## Mogambo Guru

> It's hard to compare. I'm not sure how much fuel is being stored at Fukushima and where it's being stored exactly (I keep hearing conflicting reports).   
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's definitely a possibility for some of the reactors at Fukushima. If it does happen, hopefully it will just be a small breach in containment that will allow only the noble gases to release, and not the heavier fission products. The worst breach would be if it somehow melted through the vessel and hit a pool of water causing steam to be formed fast and material to be thrown into the air. 
> 
> Once again though, even that worst case isn't as bad as Chernobyl where the explosion threw stuff everywhere and there was lots of heat involved which allowed aerosols to rise and travel further.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!  ...and good luck to your buckeyes in the tourny, I actually have them beating Pitt in my bracket.

----------


## KramerDSP

.....




> EMN Earthquake Japan 
> NHK is reporting that their helicopter can see smoke coming from #Fukushima Daiichi Power Plant No 1 Reactors 2,3,4. - 8:25 JST

----------


## Carson

I don't think I posted this yet.

It is a simple book a guy on fark made to help explain to his friends how the two basic types of nuclear plants operate.

(Look down low and to the left below the avatar for the word, "Onward" to go to the next page.)

http://ringshadow.deviantart.com/art...ge-1-154180410

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Fukushima Report #9*

Editorial Office: Department of Information & Communication, JAIF http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/


No. 9
Status of Fukushima #1 power station(Daiichi) as of 11:40, March 16, 2011

The chief cabinet secretary reported the status of Fukushima #1 power station at
the news briefing 11:15 as follows.

○Report from the chief cabinet secretary (Summary)

*<Unit-3>*
・White fume has been observed from unit-3.
・Radiation monitored at the border of the site is increasing. It reaches an order
of mille Sv/hr around 10:00, today.

・It is possible that radioactively contaminated steam is released from the
containment vessel. Now, investigating cause is going on.
*<Unit-4, Unit-5 and Unit-6>*

・Water injection operation is being prepared.

*・Water temperature in the spent fuel pool is increasing also at unit-5 and unit-6.*

We would like to deal with the issue in a proactive manner.
End

----------


## raiha

> It's hard to compare. I'm not sure how much fuel is being stored at Fukushima and where it's being stored exactly (I keep hearing conflicting reports).   
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's definitely a possibility for some of the reactors at Fukushima. If it does happen, hopefully it will just be a small breach in containment that will allow only the noble gases to release, and not the heavier fission products. The worst breach would be if it somehow melted through the vessel and hit a pool of water causing steam to be formed fast and material to be thrown into the air. 
> 
> Once again though, even that worst case isn't as bad as Chernobyl where the explosion threw stuff everywhere and there was lots of heat involved which allowed aerosols to rise and travel further.
> 
> 
> ...


I thought the main problem here was that the radiation would be so lethal, the workers could not get near it in order to work on Reactor number three.

----------


## raiha

> Does anyone know how far inland the Tsnumai traveled in the towns closest to the epicenter of the Quake ?


Different distances in different towns. The furthest I heard about was 13 miles. Particularly poignant because in one of the worst affected towns, many people gathered at the 'safe' designated muster points and were wiped out as the wave continued for another three miles.

----------


## TheState

> ・Radiation monitored at the border of the site is increasing. It reaches an order
> of mille Sv/hr around 10:00, today.


I think that's the highest reading at the site boundary I've seen. 

For those who are new to radiation...
0.001 Sv/hr = 0.1 rem/hr
You get about 0.001-0.002 rem in a normal day
You can get anywhere from 0.1-5.0 rem from a CT scan
500 rem in short time would give you a 50% chance of survival.

So 0.1 rem/hr is starting to approach worrying levels (if by the site boundary, they mean a km or 2 from the reactor).

Edit: I should add, the monitors I have been watching in Japan have had levels going down all day today. So either these high levels haven't reached them, or it's been a small release and has stayed local.

http://www.bousai.ne.jp/eng/index.html




> I thought the main problem here was that the radiation would be so lethal, the workers could not get near it in order to work on Reactor number three.


I was talking in terms of offsite consequences, but you're right. That is playing a huge roll on their efforts. I'm really surprised they're having as much trouble getting equipment on site as they are. The doses they are seeing must be high to be keeping them away.

----------


## eduardo89

thanks for all your updates and explanations TheState!

----------


## Texan4Life

> thanks for all your updates and explanations TheState!


+1

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66f865a6-4...#axzz1GoPlxQJf

A top US nuclear safety official said late on Wednesday that the situation in Japan was worse than officials there had suggested. 

Japanese authorities said radiation doses of 6.4 millisieverts per hour – about 10,000 times normal background radiation – had been detected inside the Fukushima plant, though readings soon fell back to about a third of that level. Elevated readings were not recorded outside the government-imposed 20km exclusion zone around the plant.

The helicopter effort had to be abandoned because radiation doses directly above the No 3 reactor were found to be above the 50 millisievert limit for military pilots. Authorities said they would try again on Thursday.

Tepco also said an estimated 70 per cent of the nuclear fuel rods had been damaged in the No 1 reactor and 33 per cent in the No 2 reactor.

----------


## Carson

Speaking of no one dieing in the nuclear power field often seems a game of semantics.

I remember one story that contained very graphics pictures of a man that gave his life in the nuclear industry. I'm thinking it was in an old _Hustler Magazine_.

The way the story went was the guy was working in a room and a radioactive pellet fell out of a container somehow. He quickly reached down and grabbed it up and put it back in. They say his action may have save the life of everyone of his fellow workers in the room.

The first picture was a few hours later. His fingers had swollen up right away like you would expect from a normal fire burn. 

Later they started turning black.

Then there was pictures after his fingers started falling away.

The pictures continued showing his reddened arm and the black stub at the end as more fell away.

He lost more of his arm as it creeped up his arm past his elbow.

Past his elbow and up to his shoulder was gone in the following pictures.

He lived until it was well past his shoulder. The last picture show everything gone well past his shoulder and into his chest. He was missing in a big slant from about his neck to below his right breast.

I can't remember how many months past for it all to take place. 

It is such an important story and he was such a hero it is a shame the story seems lost.


More info;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...tion_accidents

I also remember a story about a reactor the exploded during maintenance, if I remember right.  I think they found one guy dead in the control room but they couldn't figure out where the other guy was for days. Then someone looked up and he was pasted in the top of the doom above the core. I think it was suspected he was trying to dislodge a stuck control rod when the then went.

----------


## YumYum

*U.S. official: People may be called on to sacrifice their lives at Japan's reactor*

: "Asked to be more specific, he said, "This is a situation where people may be called in to sacrifice their lives. ... It's very difficult for me to contemplate that but it's, it may have reached that point."

full story: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/as...ors/index.html

----------


## KramerDSP

The footage of the helicopters dropping water suggests it is an incredibly futitle last ditch response. Most of the water isn't hitting its' target, from what I can see. Is this even effective? And how many rads are the pilots being exposed to right now? Do the suits they wear help?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

post 960 link talks about it a bit as does another article.  basically the 50 engineers on site are not expected to live through this and they are going to have to get additional volunteers with the correct skills for what amounts to a suicide mission if they have any hope of getting this under control.

----------


## TheState

> thanks for all your updates and explanations TheState!


No problem, I'm off to bed for the night. Let's hope things look better in the morning.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

March 16, 2011 7:05 PM *U.S. to send drones over damaged nuke plant*

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_1...23-503543.html





> An unmanned aerial vehicle similar to this one will be used to take a closer look at the damaged Fukushima nuclear complex.
> 
> (CBS/AP) They've been used in the drug war in Mexico and to help fight the wars  in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now, unmanned U.S. spy planes will be used  over Japan to take a closer, safer look at the damaged Fukushima nuclear  complex.
>   CBS News' Harry Smith reports that the drones  are equipped with infrared cameras, which will allow officials to look  inside the complex and find the hot spots where there might be the most  trouble.
> 
>   Conditions at the plant deteriorated Wednesday,  with surging radiation forcing Japan to order workers to temporarily  withdraw from the plant. In response, the U.S. recommended citizens  within 50 miles of it evacuate.
>   Other countries,  including Australia and Germany, have issued more sweeping  recommendations for their citizens, advising them to consider leaving  Tokyo and other earthquake-affected areas. Tokyo, which is about 170  miles from the stricken nuclear complex, reported slightly elevated  radiation levels Tuesday, though Japanese officials said the increase  was too small to threaten the 39 million people in and around the  capital.
> 
>  The Pentagon said U.S. troops working on relief  missions can get closer than 50 miles to plant with approval. Spokesman  Col. David Lapan said the U.S. would review requests from the Japanese  for assistance that would require troops to move within that radius,  though no approval for such movement had been given since the more  strict guidelines were enacted.
> ...

----------


## Carson

> Some of you need to get a grip ... on reality.  Get a grip! 
> 
> I can see making some preparations outside Japan, e.g. taking KELP, not potassium iodide, since sufficient time exists to react RATIONALLY to this remote crisis. Leave the stocks of potassium iodide to EMERGENCIES such as the one IN Japan, i.e. very limited time spans which certainly doesn't equal a couple of weeks ...


Then again you may want to learn from this and get yourself prepared now for the next nuclear catastrophe in case your running out the door like a lot of Japanese were. No time then perhaps.


P.S. the only reason I would think to wait now is for the price to come down. I think these were about $12.00.

http://www.amazon.com/iOSAT-Potassiu...ecc_rvi_cart_1

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Fukishima Reactor #3 Operator in 2010

----------


## PeacePlan



----------


## ronpaulhawaii

So, the spent fuel pools may just turn out to be the bigger problem? Whodathunk? The BBC article hints that. 

How are these pools normally loaded? Are rods changed out as a batch, or singly as they show wear? I guess my main questions are if there is usually a full set of fresh rods on hand in those pools?, and if #3's (Red Alert on HOLLYWOOD's chart) would have been MOX, since that is what they were running? Further, since the pool in #1 & #2 are both listed in Yellow, can I assume there are fuel rods in those pools as well. (considering the damage to those buildings, I find the "(No Info)" particularly curious...). There must be a minimum "containment" of the pool itself , but what are the chances they have been damaged in the explosions? Would the gantry have come down on it? 

And then we move on to 4, 5, & 6. Where the techs are rocks in a hard place. In a worst case scenario the water they need to cool it down could become the agent to achieve criticality. 4 has already lit up twice, while 5 and 6 are heating up... 

Basically, how much fuel is on this complex not in containment? More than in? Is there a complete set of spares for each reactor? More? And, again, what are the chances #3's pool has MOX in it?

Next I'm wondering about the radiation itself. 

These GAMMA rays that are preventing the helos from dropping loads are said to shoot "straight up". Do they shoot straight up into space and keep going? What do they do to the molecules they encounter? Are there particles?, how do they disperse?, do they bind to whatever they encounter? Becoming "hot" rain or dust? What if it finds nothing to bind to?  

We all know how the blast of a major volcano sends its plume around the world making pretty sunsets on the other side of the world?. What kind of plume is coming off of this complex? What kind of plume would come off it if all the fuel in the pools melts? What will be the implications at Midway Island, which is about 2500 miles away from Japan and in the prevailing wind pattern...

Questions, Questions...

and sushi sounds great

----------


## KramerDSP

[IMG]img842.imageshack.us[/IMG]

Reuters has a close up picture of the fires inside the reactor, but I'm having trouble posting it.

Edited - Found this on the Fark thread . The screencap is halfway down the page.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html

Scientists Project Path of Radiation Plume

A United Nations forecast of the possible movement of the radioactive plume coming from crippled Japanese reactors shows it churning across the Pacific, and touching the Aleutian Islands on Thursday before hitting Southern California late Friday. 

The projection, by the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization, an arm of the United Nations in Vienna, gives no information about actual radiation levels but only shows how a radioactive plume would probably move and disperse. 

the Japan forecast shows that the radioactive plume will likely miss the agencys monitoring stations at Midway and in the Hawaiian Islands but is likely to be detected in the Aleutians and at a monitoring station in Sacramento.

The forecast assumes that radioactivity in Japan is released continuously and forms a rising plume. It ends with the plume heading into Southern California and the American Southwest, including Nevada, Utah and Arizona. The plume would have continued eastward if the United Nations scientists had run the projection forward. 

Mr. Jaczko was asked if the meltdown of a core of one of the reactors would increase the chance of harmful radiation reaching Hawaii or the West Coast.

I dont want to speculate on various scenarios, he replied. But based on the design and the distances involved, it is very unlikely that there would be any harmful impacts. 

(remember - 3 have at least partially melted down)

More in the article - mostly of the "don't worry, be happy" variety.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> [IMG]img842.imageshack.us[/IMG]
> 
> Reuters has a close up picture of the fires inside the reactor, but I'm having trouble posting it.
> 
> Edited - Found this on the Fark thread . The screencap is halfway down the page.


using Firefox, right click on the image and scroll down to view image info - then cut and paste the location between IMG thingies...



EEEKS!

Good find - thanks!

----------


## raiha

What is the prevailing wind in Honchu? I thought it usually goes NW. 
Those drones can't throw water at it can they?

Did you hear the email one of the workers sent his wife. "Live fully. I may not be back for awhile." Sounds like Captain Oates.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Next I'm wondering about the radiation itself. 
> 
> These GAMMA rays that are preventing the helos from dropping loads are said to shoot "straight up". Do they shoot straight up into space and keep going? What do they do to the molecules they encounter? Are there particles?, how do they disperse?, do they bind to whatever they encounter? Becoming "hot" rain or dust? What if it finds nothing to bind to?


Gamma radiation is extremely high frequency electromagnetic radiation.

It is "omnidirectional".

Being RF, you can see how it can be difficult to shield, as RF becomes less susceptible to blockage and becomes more line of sight as frequencies increase.

An AM radio likely will not work inside a steel building. AM broadcast frequencies being in the 500 - 1600 kilohertz range.

FM radios will work better because the frequency is higher 88 - 106 megahertz.

As cell phones advance, the frequency keeps getting higher, while this cuts down effective range it increase data "bandwidth" and serviceability in buildings. (It also increases the chances that you're frying your brain holding them up to your head.)

Analog cel phones started out in the 800 megahertz band, they now operate, IIRC all the way to 2.4 gigahertz.

A microwave oven operates in a frequency range just above that at 2.45 gigahertz.

Gamma radiation is in the 10 exahertz range or about 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 hertz.

This is why it is so hard to shield against.

----------


## KramerDSP

"Sanjay and AC talking about getting 20x normal radiation in Tokyo, read off their personal dosimeters."

----------


## squarepusher

why cant they setup some pumps to pump ocean water directly on it?  Isn't the plant right on the ocean?

----------


## Carson

Here is a post I found in the *U.S. nuclear chief says there is nothing at Japanese plant that can stop meltdown, emergence of Godzilla (official thread, continued)* thread on www.fark.com

I like it but I don't see the original source.

_
brantgoose: Do you find it vaguely annoying that despite all this talk of radiation and meltdowns and explosions and evacuations, nobody has actually given a figure on how much radiation has been released yet?

Well, I just found numbers. A graph, in fact.

New York Times link (Will more than vaguely annoy some of you):

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...-japan-quake-r a diation.html?ref=asia

Between the reactors, the radiation levels have been measured as high as 400 millisieverts per hour, which is a lot and bad news for the heroic Fukushima Fiddy unless they have stayed the Hell out of there.

At the perimeter, however, the highest level so far seems to be 11.9 millisieverts per hour.

Another thing which annoys me is that there are about six different ways of measuring radiation and I can't remember them all. All I remember is Sunshine Units. The guy who came up with that euphemism should be hunted down with hounds and shot like an Irish tribesman.

Also, talking about levels of radiation is pretty much meaningless unless you differentiate between the different kinds and sources of radiation.

Sure we are bathed in background radiation. But it doesn't usually come in a concentrated dose of radioactive isotopes of iodine (which accumulates in the thyroid), cesium (which accumulates in the bones where it can kill marrow cells that make white blood cells among other things) and so forth.

The same dose of radiation from a speck of plutonium in your lungs means something radically different for your health from the radioactive phosphorus in a banana, and the scientists and nuclear industry BS mongers know it.

Give me good old background radiation any day. It is spread throughout your body and throughout the year, and it consists of every kind of isotope in nature so it doesn't all end up in the same place, killing one of your vital organs or starting a cancer.

And that makes a big difference, which is something you will never hear from an apologist for nuclear weapons or nuclear power or nuclear medicine unless you drag it out through his nose with a hook.

But not to fear. The radiation will not be much of a problem by the time it gets here.

Except for Plutonium, of course. A speck of that stuff in your body is with you 'til death do you part and maybe longer, unlike many isotopes which don't last long or are excreted eventually.

So remember this simple rule of thumb: all measurements of ionizing radiation are completely BS. The stuff is dangerous in any form._

----------


## KramerDSP

> why cant they setup some pumps to pump ocean water directly on it?  Isn't the plant right on the ocean?


My understanding is that setting up pumps is a suicide mission because of the proximity to the reactors, and that much exposure to the radiation there is lethal within hours.

----------


## KramerDSP

This comment from Fark says it all:




> NuclearScientist: Any important breaking news? Haven't been able to follow the thread for over a thousand posts.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Here is the newest reports:
> 
> Things are bad
> Not bad
> Worsening
> ...

----------


## devil21

> why cant they setup some pumps to pump ocean water directly on it?  Isn't the plant right on the ocean?


That's exactly what they have been doing.

----------


## KramerDSP

> using Firefox, right click on the image and scroll down to view image info - then cut and paste the location between IMG thingies...
> 
> 
> 
> EEEKS!
> 
> Good find - thanks!


Thanks for the info. I hope that's just a regular fire. It doesn't seem molten red.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> why cant they setup some pumps to pump ocean water directly on it?  Isn't the plant right on the ocean?


There was a report about tanks going dry and causing 2-3 hour breaks in pumping seawater, so there is a hop in there somewhere where seawater gets transported to on site tanks so it can be pumped into the reactors.

----------


## devil21

That would be an odd place for a fire.  Looks like either the spent rods are smoldering or the top of the reactor is gone.

For all the talk of "fires", they don't seem to ever say exactly _what_ it is that's on fire.  For an area made of steel, concrete and other mostly non-flammable materials?




> There was a report about tanks going dry and causing 2-3 hour breaks in pumping seawater, so there is a hop in there somewhere where seawater gets transported to on site tanks so it can be pumped into the reactors.


Are you sure about that?  They're not pumping directly from the ocean?  I thought there were no roads for transporting water and I thought that was the whole point of putting the reactors next to water.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> That would be an odd place for a fire.  Looks like either the spent rods are smoldering or the top of the reactor is gone.
> 
> For all the talk of "fires", they don't seem to ever say exactly _what_ it is that's on fire.  For an area made of steel, concrete and other mostly non-flammable materials?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that?  They're not pumping directly from the ocean?  I thought there were no roads for transporting water and I thought that was the whole point of putting the reactors next to water.


Using seawater at all is a desperate measure that ensures the reactor will never be used again.  The tanks would normally hold fresh water and the plumbing would be attached to them.

----------


## Cdn_for_liberty

watching AC360 now.

Anderson is grilling PM Kan's spokesperson.

----------


## EndDaFed

> using Firefox, right click on the image and scroll down to view image info - then cut and paste the location between IMG thingies...
> 
> 
> 
> EEEKS!
> 
> Good find - thanks!


For others that don't know the above photo is clearly fake. Fark is known for this type of silly photo shopped images. The gray close up is cropped from video of the Chernobyl disaster.

----------


## devil21

> For others that don't know the above photo is clearly fake. Fark is known for this type of silly photo shopped images. The gray close up is cropped from video of the Chernobyl disaster.


Someone said earlier in this thread that Fark was a reliable site.  So much for that...

----------


## steph3n

> Someone said earlier in this thread that Fark was a reliable site.  So much for that...


 trolls will be trolls. Fark is home to trolls

----------


## Anti Federalist

> For others that don't know the above photo is clearly fake. Fark is known for this type of silly photo shopped images. The gray close up is cropped from video of the Chernobyl disaster.


Yup, at :40 - :44

----------


## EndDaFed

Edit: Anti Federalist beat me to it.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Yup, at :40 - :44


Looks similar but a bit different.

Thought KramerDSP had said he'd originally seen it as part of a Reuters news article.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...e/%28page%29/2

But specialists also caution that the picture would be far different if a meltdown has turned the fuel in a reactor partially or wholly into a blob, lacking the channels needed to circulate water, and later air, between and around individual fuel rods.

One of the challenges for plant operators at Fukushima I comes in ending as quickly as possible the release of steam, which contains radioactive gases that are a byproduct of nuclear fission, which drives the reactors.

"As you pump water in, and it boils and turns to steam, you have to relieve the pressure from the steam, and that steam is going to be radioactive," Dr. Lewis says.

Ordinarily, Lewis says, steam is vented through filters that remove radioactive byproducts. But explosions at the plant have allow the steam to vent directly into the air, carrying with it the radioactive gases, including isotopes of iodine and cesium that radiation specialists have associated with serious health problems.

Once the plant's condition has been stabilized, radiation levels near the reactors must fall to a level that will allow workers to survey the damage.

After the accident at Three Mile Island's Unit 2 reactor in 1979, *engineers had to wait three years before they could lower a camera into the darkened void of the reactor vessel.*

Only then did they discover the true scope of the accident: one-third of the reactor core had melted, says Arthur Motta, a nuclear-engineering professor

----------


## EndDaFed

> Looks similar but a bit different.
> 
> Thought KramerDSP had said he'd originally seen it as part of a Reuters news article.


The person that made the photo might have had a better source. Compare the bits of metal of both the photo and video at around 43 seconds in the lower left corner.

----------


## PeacePlan

*Nuclear Japan, Stock market "holding up", Pictures of 'Reactor' 3 and 4*
I have continued amazement that very few photo from "on the ground" have  been released from day 1.   It seems that the plants would have many  cameras built in, and those systems destroyed by the quake or blast  could be replaced with quickly set up cameras and/or robots.

This picture says volumes...."Reactor 3 and 4" are not really facilities  anymore, as opposed to smouldering masses of twisted metal.




From my continuing research, Chernobyl radiation release was pretty bad,  and resulted from direct fire on the uranium and by-products.   Now  they say that has already happened in Japan (perhaps).  See below for  "Spent Fuel on Fire?!" which is still not 100% clear in my mind.

WORST CASE #1
A scenario in which molten reactor materials -uranium--"perfectly" wraps  around a pool of water, causing a super-heated explosion of steam  launching radioactive materials in a massive blast is the "worst" case  scenario, but what are the odds of this perfectly happening, perfectly  wrong?   Very small is the general consensus and I believe that one.    Maybe in the range of 1%, NOT 10%.
WORST CASE #2A
What about a 5000 degF mass of molten reactor materials (let's just say  uranium, although stuff morphs into other stuff that can be worse)  melting it's way through a damaged concrete floor, into a pocket of  water or sea water below the plant, or rolling right into the ocean?    Purely conjecture, but these are the mostly likely worst case scenarios  IMHO.

WORST CASE #2B 
And the Chernobyl type scenario, direct fire on the nuclear materials  or, even worse, on the "used" nuclear waste that was being stored at  reactors 4, 5, AND 6.    Prior to last night, we never even heard of 5  or 6, now we find that rather than store the waste materials underneath a  big mountain like in western united states, that they decided last fall  to store all the old materials in the facilities next to the working  nuclear plants, on the ocean, on the ring of fire.

From a Russia Expert on Chernobyl, and the storing of nuclear spent materials--
Chernobyl Expert slams storage methods

"Spent Fuel on Fire?!"  --this is not clear, but seems quite possible.

Link below is from UN Nuclear Agency saying that indeed a spent fuel  pool was in a fire at Reactor 4, review the picture above.  Indeed that  article below is very clear that the fire was at the spent fuel pool,  and that is what caused a huge release of radioactivity.

Spent Fuel Pool in a Fire

*Corrections, further misinformation, and Pot Shots---*
So someone says the fire was at the spent fuel (that would be very bad),  and then someone else says...No, that fire was from an oil leak from a  pump--and then points to a link---of which when you check the link, says  nothing about the location of the fire, just that it was put out in 2  hours.  The second link also states how they tried to add water to the  #4 spent fuel pool--and failed.   These spent fuel pools have 16 feet  deep water over the top of the used fuel stored in them.   FOR  CONVENIENCE, these pools are located at the roof level of the  containment buildings!  What is there was a massive earthquake and the  building was cracked, and the water leaked out!   What if the  containment building also blew up due to hydrogen explosion.

Here is a direct download described how the used fuel is stored at Fukushima - very scary and enlightening READ IT

http://www.box.net/shared/3kmi4xgqv1
Here are the links to the "Corrections" comment -- the Pot shot part
http://www.chron.com/disp/discuss.mp...l/7474227.html
http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevent...n-that-region/


Here is the problem: The Authorities are very concerned with all out panic.   The Japanese people have strong morale values, and do not just "lose  it" like would happen in most places already.   But at some point, if  they reach the breaking point, it could be a very strong social  reaction.


The governor of Fukushima prefecture, Yuhei Sato, criticised  official  handling of the crisis, telling Japan's NHK TV: "The anxiety  and anger  being felt by people in Fukushima have reached a boiling  point."So-the authorities want calmness, they don't want to instill panic.    And thus they feel it necessary to withhold information, which has  obviously been withheld from the very beginning.  Also the classic  example of "Denial"....maybe it is not as bad as we think it  is...example...."maybe it is just a coincidence that 4 airplane are off  course and not communicating on 9-11-01".    Denial, and hoping to avoid  being "chicken little" should the situation not be as bad as you think  it may be.  Very closely related to Denial is "Hope".   Hope is a double  edged sword, without hope --the will to take effective action can be  curtailed, but the wrong hope, the ability to see the need for action  can be blocked.

From the Emperor of Japan who rarely speaks in public, but is highly respected.


"I am deeply concerned about the nuclear situation because  it is unpredictable," he said. "With the help of those involved I hope  things will not get worse."http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nt-crisis.html

Please read this quote below and then look at the picture at the top of this post.


Nuclear experts have repeatedly stressed that radiation  releases on the  scale of Chernobyl are unlikely or even impossible,  given the Japanese  plants heavier engineering and additional layers of containment. Still,  Tokyo Electric said radiation briefly rose to dangerous levels at the  plant Tuesday morning and again on Wednesday.Above from the Washington Post

But people have to make real decisions.   Do we encourage our family in  Tokyo to leave at any cost, whatever it takes?   Transportation is  difficult, most trains are running, there are blackouts on a regular  basis.    Just how bad is it, how bad could it become?   Yesterday the  winds were blowing the radioactive steam and such across the mainland of  Japan, today the winds are blowing westerly across the Pacific.

And therein lies the dilemma, all based on poorly provided  information, does one recommend drastic action?  Indeed, I would  flee...the cost of fleeing may be fairly dear, but the cost of staying  and have the worst or second worst or third worst scenario play out may  be a very very high cost.

Finally, something to think about, here is one that appears to be a few  days old, from and MIT nuclear "expert" stating in these excerpts--
Well, first off, we can't have a Chernobyl-like situation. The system is  designed so that as long as we keep water in there to keep it cool,  nothing will happen.Hypothetically,  if the water all boils and evaporates, then the fuel  will stay molten  and eventually melt through the steel vessel. But  that's already beyond a hypothetical worst-case scenario for me.Then  you have the other containment vessel, with a concrete faceplate  underneath that's between four and 10 feet thick. But melting through  that is hypothetical beyond normal reasoning.And  then, worst comes to worst, there are pumps that can take water from  the local cooling water supply, in this case the ocean, and just pump  water in there. As long as there's water in there, it might be expensive for the utility to get it cleaned up, but everything is going to be fine.It might be a financial disaster, but no member of the public has been hurt, and I doubt anybody will be.Here is a link to that MIT "Expert" -- he is already proven wrong at many levels.

 Expert describes how bad could it get

This type of thinking reminds me of how our US security "experts" could  not imagine an airliner being used as a weapon.    When will we demand  better? 

SEE NO EVIL
Chernobyl was attempted to be covered up 100% at the beginning, even  though eventually 600,000 people used as "liquidators" were eventually  brought in to cleanup, the first 200,000 were exposed to heavy  radiation.  Some pictures (still in my mind from 1986) showed workers in  normal street clothes shovelling radioactive materials into  wheelbarrows.

Tokyo Electric Power tried to cover up their problems at the start, the  Prime Minister was reportedly extremely mad when they finally fessed up a  little bit 3 hours after it had already become a real problem.

GOOD NEWS
Apparently they are bringing in "Firm Power" meaning a new power line  from other utilities so at least the brave workers at the site have some  real power to help in whatever tasks they are doing while wearing full  suits and humping around huge air tanks on their backs.

I will be out in training all day Wed

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

in the photo the diagonal piece of wreckage looks wider/thicker and it looks like there is more on fire - to me at least.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Bank of Japan has pumped a  HALF a TRILLION dollars into their monetary system...


Someone have SOME pics from the NRO/NSA/DIA? They should be able to tell you EVERYTHING about reactors #3 and #4. They're also doing USAF/CIA drone flyovers with HighRes camera/visuals.

If Japan doesn't disclose I want to know why the US government hasn't disclosed?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Someone have SOME pics from the NRO/NSA/DIA? They should be able to tell you EVERYTHING about reactors #3 and #4. They're also doing USAF/CIA drone flyovers with HighRes camera/visuals.
> 
> If Japan doesn't disclose I want to know why the US government hasn't disclosed?


resolution and imaging capabilities/limits are highly classified.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

PeacePlan, considering your post #725:

You are assuming the fuel rods were spent.  The reactors were offline, that doesn't say the rods were spent.

You assume there were only one set of rods in each pool.

Consider:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...e/%28page%29/2

Job 1 is to continue pumping water to cool cores of the damaged reactors and to maintain adequate water levels in the spent-fuel pools, where the water serves as a radiation shield as well as a coolant. Over time, the need for cooling water decreases as the heat from radioactive decay diminishes, explains Elmer Lewis, a professor emeritus of nuclear engineering at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill.

*The amount of cooling time varies, depending on how long a reactor has been running and how close to maximum power it has come while operating.

One hint comes from fuel-storage practices in the US. Spent fuel must sit in a pool for about a year before it's cool enough to transfer to concrete casks for outdoor storage, according to David Lochbaum, a nuclear engineer who heads the Nuclear Safety Project at the Union of Concerned Scientists in Washington.*

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> resolution and imaging capabilities/limits are highly classified.


JANE'S DEFENSE has a bunch of info

----------


## 00_Pete

Im watching the news and things are getting really really bad. Apparently its 3 reactors totally destroyed and other 3 are starting to go the same way.

----------


## Carson

> For others that don't know the above photo is clearly fake. Fark is known for this type of silly photo shopped images. The gray close up is cropped from video of the Chernobyl disaster.





> Someone said earlier in this thread that Fark was a reliable site.  So much for that...


Fark is fark. It is the real world out there. And there.

The picture wasn't real?

Those guys!

I was pretty sure the picture that showed banana's in the closeup box wasn't real.


P.S. I hope those pictures weren't what got the fire fighters dropping water. Even if I hope it's helping.

You guys may want to go to the fark main page and see where your at. Down the middle is the headlines. To the left is the actual article. To the right is a number to click to the comments.

www.fark.com

----------


## MozoVote

OK, so what are our takeaways from this? 

That placing multiple 44-year old technology reactors plus heaps of spent fuel (including highly toxic Plutonium) in a concentrated location prone to earthquakes and flooding, is a bad thing. 

So, it logically follows that all forms of nuclear power are bad, and we should never build any more nuclear stations anywhere. I guess.

----------


## 00_Pete

> OK, so what are our takeaways from this? 
> 
> That placing multiple 44-year old technology reactors plus heaps of spent fuel (including highly toxic Plutonium) in a concentrated location prone to earthquakes and flooding, is a bad thing. 
> 
> So, it logically follows that all forms of nuclear power are bad, and we should never build any more nuclear stations anywhere. I guess.


Its funny. Almost no one was complaining about that UNTIL SH*T HAPPENED. And that includes all this scientists and technicians...isnt that something???

----------


## MozoVote

Regarding the fires, from the threads I've been following on The Oil Drum, it sounds like these are exceedingly hard to put out. That fuel burns so hot, that it strips oxygen atoms right out of water or carbon dioxide and continues burning. I guess that's why you need Boron to smother it.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/wo...1&pagewanted=2

According to Tokyo Electric’s data, the spent fuel pool at the No. 4 reactor contains 548 fuel assemblies that were in use at the reactor until last November, when they were move to the storage pool on the site. That means that the fuel rods were only recently taken out of active use and that their potential to burn and release radioactivity is higher than spent fuel in storage for a longer period.

----------


## tpreitzel

> Then again you may want to learn from this and get yourself prepared now  for the next nuclear catastrophe in case your running out the door like  a lot of Japanese were. No time then perhaps.
> 
> 
> P.S. the only reason I would think to wait now is for the price to come down. I think these were about $12.00.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/iOSAT-Potassiu...ecc_rvi_cart_1



Not exactly. Outside of Japan it is basically UNNECESSARY (still) to buy and ingest potassium iodide. Again, primarily in EMERGENCIES should one be ingesting potassium iodide, i.e. the one unfolding within Japan and with mere hours to act. Drudge is currently reporting that the UN says the "plume" (radioactive) will reach the western US within the next couple of days. Naturally, the UN's statement *assumes* the "plume" has reached the stratosphere for the jet stream to transport it. I haven't seen any evidence that the "plume" has even remotely reached the stratosphere as the hydrogen explosions don't quite have the ejecting power of volcanic eruptions.  Now, if Mount Fuji blew it's top ... that would be a different story.  Anyway, even IF the "plume" has reached the jet stream, there's still time to act RATIONALLY and supplement with kelp and other natural agents while leaving stocks of potassium iodide to those who REALLY need it, i.e. the Japanese.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Global...e1-674379.aspx

The official toll of the dead and missing after the quake and tsunami flattened Japan's northeast coast has exceeded 13,000, police said, with the number of confirmed dead at 5,178.

But reports continued to come in which indicated that the final toll could be much higher, with the mayor of the coastal town of Ishinomaki saying the number of missing there was likely to hit 10,000, Kyodo News reported.

On Saturday, public broadcaster NHK reported that around 10,000 people were also unaccounted for in the port town of Minamisanriku, again in Miyagi prefecture.

----------


## Carson

> OK, so what are our takeaways from this? 
> 
> That placing multiple 44-year old technology reactors plus heaps of spent fuel (including highly toxic Plutonium) in a concentrated location prone to earthquakes and flooding, is a bad thing. 
> 
> So, it logically follows that all forms of nuclear power are bad, and we should never build any more nuclear stations anywhere. I guess.


 
I was just reading about a pebble bed reactor that shows promise.

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/how-to-make-a-n.php

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Drudge is currently reporting that the UN says the "plume" (radioactive) will reach the western US within the next couple of days. Naturally, the UN's statement *assumes* the "plume" has reached the stratosphere for the jet stream to transport it. I haven't seen any evidence that the "plume" has even remotely reached the stratosphere as the hydrogen explosions don't quite have the ejecting power of volcanic eruptions.  Now, if Mount Fuji blew it's top ... that would be a different story.


I don't think the "plume" they are worrying about is from the 3 hydrogen explosions, but rather the superheated radioactive steam that has been a constant leak.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD



----------


## tpreitzel

> I don't think the "plume" they are worrying about is from the 3 hydrogen explosions, but rather the superheated radioactive steam that has been a constant leak.


Probably, but steam has even less momentum than an explosion.  Thankfully, particles released from the earth have to travel upward for more than 30k feet. Ultimately, we'll see where this situation stands over time. In the interim, we need to support the Japanese people by deed, i.e. causing minimal disruption of essential supplies.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Holy sheeeet!  There is a TON of spent fuel rods at that facility!  It's not clear if we are talking about Fukushima-Daiichi or Fukusima-Daini, but I'm assuming it's the first if not both.  I came across ref to the rods in the storage pools being densely packed,  so went looking... found this:

http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/acc...powerpoint.pdf

It looks like the Japanese like to store lots and lots and lots of spent fuel rods on site until it's convenient to dispose of them.  From page 4:

Fukushima-Daiichi - 1,760 (ton-U) (84% storage capacity used)
Fukusima-Daini - 1,060 (ton-U)  (78% storage capacity used)

That report noted earlier said reactor #4 alone had something like 570 rods.  That seemed like a lot - guess we know why now.

Looks like each reactor generates 120 spent fuel rods a year.  Also looks like there is currently about 4 years worth of spent fuel rods on site.

[UNPDATE] it is the Fukushima-Daiichi plant, so that's at least 3,570 pounds of uranium and plutonium fuel rods on site.



-t

----------


## 00_Pete

European energy commissioner, Guenther Oettinger talks about apocalipse, says they dont know what to do anymore and things are at the "hands of God".

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/ja...ke-nuclear.94d

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

They continue to cool the reactors via firetrucks and air water drops with US made Chinook choppers.

----------


## raiha

And they have 11 firetrucks. What will tomorrow bring?

----------


## Reason

*Japan nuclear plant: Just 48 hours to avoid 'another Chernobyl'*



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...Chernobyl.html

_"Asked about the maximum possible amount of radioactive release, he said "it    would be in the same range as Chernobyl"."_

----------


## YumYum

*US authorizes American evacuations out of Japan*

– 21 mins ago

WASHINGTON – The United States has authorized the first evacuations of Americans out of Japan, taking a tougher stand on the deepening nuclear crisis and warning U.S. citizens to defer all non-essential travel to any part of the country as unpredictable weather and wind conditions risked spreading radioactive contamination.

President Barack Obama placed a telephone call to Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Wednesday to discuss Japan's efforts to recover from last week's devastating earthquake and tsunami, and the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima Dai-chi plant. Obama promised Kan that the U.S. would offer constant support for its close friend and ally, and "expressed his extraordinary admiration for the character and resolve of the Japanese people," the White House said.

But a hastily organized teleconference late Wednesday with officials from the State and Energy Departments underscored the administration's concerns. The travel warning extends to U.S. citizens already in the country and urges them to consider leaving. The authorized departure offers voluntary evacuation to family members and dependents of U.S. personnel in Tokyo, Yokohama and Nagoya and affects some 600 people.

Senior State Department official Patrick Kennedy said chartered planes will be brought in to help private American citizens wishing to leave. People face less risk in southern Japan, but changing weather and wind conditions could raise radiation levels elsewhere in the coming days, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_us_japan

----------


## hugolp

Business Insider is reporting that the Japanese are going to plug the cooling system to the power grid: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukus...r-plant-2011-3

If they really can do it and start pumping water in again there might be hope.

----------


## TheState

> Holy sheeeet!  There is a TON of spent fuel rods at that facility!


Here's some more info on where the fuel is stored at this plant. It's from NEI...

-- Used nuclear fuel at the Fukushima Daiichi plant is stored in seven pools (one at each of the six reactors, plus a shared pool) and in a dry container storage facility (containing nine casks).

-- Sixty percent of the used fuel on site is stored in the shared pool, in a building separated from the reactor buildings; 34 percent of the used fuel is distributed between the six reactor fuel storage pools, and the remaining six percent is stored in the nine dry storage containers. There are no safety concerns regarding the used fuel in dry storage at Fukushima Daiichi.

----------


## MozoVote

NOW we're beginning to see the news touch on a problem that exists at American sites and elsewhere ... Nobody wants a nuclear waste dump in their town or to have nuclear waste even transported through it. So, spent fuel is "temporarily" housed on-site for years, as the political wrangling takes place where to send the waste.

It would probably be fair to stop calling this a "reactor fire" and instead a "nuclear storage fire". It could take weeks to extinguish that.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Here's some more info on where the fuel is stored at this plant. It's from NEI...
> 
> -- Used nuclear fuel at the Fukushima Daiichi plant is stored in seven pools (one at each of the six reactors, plus a shared pool) and in a dry container storage facility (containing nine casks).
> 
> -- Sixty percent of the used fuel on site is stored in the shared pool, in a building separated from the reactor buildings; 34 percent of the used fuel is distributed between the six reactor fuel storage pools, and the remaining six percent is stored in the nine dry storage containers. There are no safety concerns regarding the used fuel in dry storage at Fukushima Daiichi.


Got a link?

Second mention of this mysterious 7th pool I've seen.  With the pumps out of commission, why isn't it in trouble too? - or is it and they've just tried to sweep it under the carpet?

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Here's some more info on where the fuel is stored at this plant. It's from NEI...
> 
> -- Used nuclear fuel at the Fukushima Daiichi plant is stored in seven pools (one at each of the six reactors, plus a shared pool) and in a dry container storage facility (containing nine casks).
> 
> -- Sixty percent of the used fuel on site is stored in the shared pool, in a building separated from the reactor buildings; 34 percent of the used fuel is distributed between the six reactor fuel storage pools, and the remaining six percent is stored in the nine dry storage containers. There are no safety concerns regarding the used fuel in dry storage at Fukushima Daiichi.


Are you sure this 7th pool is operational?  The document I linked to said the site had 6 pools but was talking about a long term storage facility being built that would not come online until 2012...  Could that latter LT pool that is being built be pool 7?

-t

----------


## kahless

> NOW we're beginning to see the news touch on a problem that exists at American sites and elsewhere ... Nobody wants a nuclear waste dump in their town or to have nuclear waste even transported through it. So, spent fuel is "temporarily" housed on-site for years, as the political wrangling takes place where to send the waste.
> 
> It would probably be fair to stop calling this a "reactor fire" and instead a "nuclear storage fire". It could take weeks to extinguish that.


The propaganda from plant operators and Foxnews is to say the facilities are safe because of concrete integrity of the containment domes.  What they fail to recognize, perhaps intentionally is that plants such as Indian Point is that there are no containment domes for the spent fuel pools.

----------


## TheState

Here's that *NEI document* on the spent fuel pools. (I think they make some errors calculating the amount of time it would take for the pools to evaporate b/c they don't take into account leaks or damage to the building). 

I'm trying to find confirmation for their numbers somewhere. 

As for the shared pool, it might not be having problems bc it is much bigger, so it would take more energy to evaporate the water, and the fuel is older, so it's not producing as much heat. That's what I would think anyway, still trying to find more info.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...lant/undefined

The pool requires 1,200 tons of water to be filled, but the power company official says "you only need one-third that amount to cover the spent fuel rods." Without water, there's nothing to stop the fuel rods from getting hotter and ultimately melting down.

Two twin-rotor CH-47 Chinooks from the Japanese Self-Defense Forces were used in the operation, working to drop seawater on the No. 3 and No. 4 reactors.

The choppers dumped at least four loads on the reactor in just the first 10 minutes, though television footage showed much of it appearing to disperse in the wind.

Chopper crews flew missions of about 40 minutes each to limit their radiation exposure, passing over the reactor with loads of about 7,500 liters of water.

1,000 L = 1T
1,200 T = 1 pool
400 T = min coverage per pool
x 2 pools
7,500 L per helo load = 7.5 T per load 54 trips per pool for min coverage w/ 100% delivery
2.5 min per helo load = 135 min per pool for min coverage = 1 hr and 15 min per pool x2 = 2 hr and 30 min for min coverage and 7 hr and 30 min for full coverage.

Seems viable, except helo flights got scrubbed due to radiation levels.

Anyone know the pump rate of the mil water cannons? - I think they said 11 of them. 

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Here's that *NEI document* on the spent fuel pools. (I think they make some errors calculating the amount of time it would take for the pools to evaporate b/c they don't take into account leaks or damage to the building). 
> 
> I'm trying to find confirmation for their numbers somewhere. 
> 
> As for the shared pool, it might not be having problems bc it is much bigger, so it would take more energy to evaporate the water, and the fuel is older, so it's not producing as much heat. That's what I would think anyway, still trying to find more info.


OK, thanks for the link!

if only 34% are stored in the reactors, that's still just under 600 Tons or radioactive material at risk.
then there is the 3 live loads of rods in the reactors.
also, the doc I linked to only talked about the 1,570 tons of rods being stored in the 6 reactor pools.

That's quite a difference, but even at the lower level a lot of radioactive material!

also consider:



-t

----------


## wizardwatson

I'm curious what's happening to all that water.  I was a Health Physics Tech. in the army and the thing about the water in the reactor pools is, that water has to be free of impurities.  Otherwise you get isotopes from all the impurities in the water as they get too close to the reactor, and the whole pool would become contaminated.  Since they are just dumping sea water in there, it seems to me that's compounding the problems they may be having.  Though probably not their biggest worry.

----------


## squarepusher

Are there specialized suits that workers can wear in a mission critical meltdown situation ?  You think they would have emergency nuclear suits to limit as much as possible radiation levels and allow workers to try to fix things. 

Anyone know of such a thing?  Would be akin to a bullet proof vest in a military combat situation for a soldier.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

JAIF Reactor Updates March 17 2200L:  http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300368041P.pdf

I notice they have changed a few things on the chart compared to previous charts: 
1)  Fuel Integrity  changed to: *Core and Fuel Integrity*
2) Containment Integrity of Reactor #3 :* NOT Damaged to Suspected Damaged
*3) *Reactor Pressure Vessel Integrity* line has been added

----------


## AFPVet

Have they secured the spent fuel rods from the explosions?

----------


## Acala

> Are there specialized suits that workers can wear in a mission critical meltdown situation ?  You think they would have emergency nuclear suits to limit as much as possible radiation levels and allow workers to try to fix things. 
> 
> Anyone know of such a thing?  Would be akin to a bullet proof vest in a military combat situation for a soldier.


As I understand it, you can easily stop alpha particles, can stop beta particles with some effort, but can only stop gamma rays with major shielding that is too bulky for a suit.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Special suites - yeah.  They don't help much.

secured the spent fuel rods from the explosion? - no - they haven't really secured anything.  Reactor #1 seems to be in a holding pattern, but that's it.

-t

----------


## YumYum

> Have they secured the spent fuel rods from the explosions?


                             Earthquake Report  JAIF

                                     No.11

*Status of Fukushima #1 power station as of 21:30, March 17, 2011
“Operation for filling the pool with water at unit-3”*

NHK news reported on the operations conducted today for filling the pool with
water at unit-3 as follows:

Water level is low at the spent fuel pools of unit-3. Considering possibility of
damage to fuel rods in the pool outside the containment vessel, operation for
filling the pool with water were conducted three times.

* 1st operation
Japan Self-Defense Forces dropped 4 huge buckets of seawater from helicopters
in this morning. Lead plates were installed at the bottom of the helicopters to
shield radiation and crew members wore radiation protection suits.

* 2nd operation
The National Police Agency tried to pour water from the ground with pumper
truck in the evening. However, they were not able to come close because of high
radiation and water did not reach the pool.

* 3rd operation
Japan Self-Defense Forces poured 30 tons of water from the ground with 5
special pumper trucks from 19:45 to 20:09. Because these trucks are special, they
were able to do this operation without getting off the trucks. Effect of this
operation is under evaluation.

End

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300368607P.pdf

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

DHS to start additional screening if you are coming from Japan....

----------


## wizardwatson

> As I understand it, you can easily stop alpha particles, can stop beta particles with some effort, but can only stop gamma rays with major shielding that is too bulky for a suit.


Well, the halving thickness of lead is 0.4 inches for gamma rays.  So you'd need a suit 0.8 inches thick of lead covering your whole body just to cut the exposure down to 25% of what'd be with no shielding.  

So yeah, pretty much unwearable.  You'd need like an iron man suit made out of lead for this to be feasible.  Things like this are too expensive, cheaper just to let a few hero's die when things go bad.

EDIT:  The halving thickness of air is 1.5 football fields to give you an idea.

----------


## Matt Collins

> DHS to start additional screening if you are coming from Japan....


Given that their porno scanning machines put out unexpected amounts of radiation, there is some serious irony here. Is anyone going to REALLY trust the DHS / TSA to get their measurements right?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*U.S. seeking evacuations from Japan Charters aircraft for possible flight out. US private citizens can purchase a seat.
http://politifi.com/news/US-seeking-...n-1765767.html

*


> The State Department is making arrangements for family members and dependents of U.S. government personnel to evacuate areas in northern Japan  and is warning that all U.S. citizens should consider leaving the  country as the nuclear crisis at the damaged Fukushima Daichi complex  continue to unfold...continued


*
http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/17...uate-citizens/
*The United States Embassy is now chartering airplanes and offering its citizens the chance to leave Japan if they wish:



> The U.S. Embassy in Tokyo informs U.S. citizens in Japan  who wish to depart that the Department of State is making arrangements  to provide transportation to safehaven locations in Asia. This  assistance will be provided on a reimbursable basis, as required by U.S.  law. U.S. citizens who travel on US government-arranged transport will  be expected to make their own onward travel plans from the safehaven  location. Flights to evacuation points will begin departing Japan on  Thursday, March 17. There will be a limited number of seats available on  evacuation flights departing from Narita and Haneda airports on March  17. Priority will be given to persons with medical emergencies or severe  medical conditions.
>  Persons interested in departing Japan via USG-chartered  transportation should proceed to Narita and Haneda airports or contact  the US Department of State and Embassy Japan by sending an e-mail to  JapanEmergencyUSC@state.gov or by calling 1-202-501-4444. Please provide  the following information:
>  Name
> age
> place of birth
> U.S. passport number, and
> any special medical needs.
> Immediate family members (spouses and children) who are not U.S.  citizens must be documented for entry into the safehaven country and/or  U.S., if that is your final destination.*It says on the website that the flights will not be free.  The exact  cost of a seat is not revealed*, *as the location of the “safehaven” is  not yet certain*.

----------


## hugolp

TEPCO says it has succesfully attached a power line from the power grid to the nuke plant: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukus...r-plant-2011-3

If true, this is good news.

----------


## YumYum

Rachel Maddow does an excellent job of explaining what is taking place in Japan. 

http://www.thelibertyunderground.net...pening-in.html

----------


## Reason



----------


## muzzled dogg

> DHS to start additional screening if you are coming from Japan....


i'd like to see some tests of people before and after going thru the body scanners

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Wind/Rad Status @ multiple points for radiation level predictions around the Fukushima Power Plant #1 and surrounding area. This update is at 0140L on March 18th.

http://www.k4.dion.ne.jp/~ngtl-rad/

Sample

----------


## Texan4Life

> Rachel Maddow does an excellent job of explaining what is taking place in Japan. 
> 
> http://www.thelibertyunderground.net...pening-in.html


thx...

Good vid for those of us who are nuclear n00bs

----------


## eric_cartman



----------


## s35wf

This video explains how EVERYTHING is Connected Together.  Not for those with a closed mind.  I found this on the david icke forum (The News Behind the News section).  The poster behind this video is called "tintin"  follow his/her posts as I do believe he is on to something.  Connections!  Connects dots from the Nuclear thing in Japan to the coming Financial Collase.  I just discovered this forum discussion a couple of weeks ago myself. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeOoh...layer_embedded

----------


## Acala

> This video explains how EVERYTHING is Connected Together.  Not for those with a closed mind.  I found this on the david icke forum (The News Behind the News section).  The poster behind this video is called "tintin"  follow his/her posts as I do believe he is on to something.  Connections!  Connects dots from the Nuclear thing in Japan to the coming Financial Collase.  I just discovered this forum discussion a couple of weeks ago myself. Check it out.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeOoh...layer_embedded


So the big connection between the global economic meltdown and the Fukushima nuclear disaster is that the governor of the town and the Ben Bernank have the same birthday?  Really?  I guess my mind isn't open enough to give that any significance at all.  And I had to stop at that point.  Bet I didn't miss much.

I see signs of the meltdown of this thread

----------


## nayjevin

I feel obligated to forewarn folks that David Icke is the guy who says politicians are lizards.... this says nothing about the content in that video or you, s35wf, or of posters on his board.  But, I would want to know that before I watched the video, I feel obligated to say so.

ETA: ok yes the reasoning in the portion of the video I could stomach was equivalent to numerology.... looks like a case of moving the dots to where they sound as scary as possible.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

OOOOHHHH - you got it so wrong - most politicians are ALIEN LIZARDS! 

btw: Japan got 66M in donations, a forth of what Haiti got at the same post disaster point....

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Tokyo flight triggers O'Hare radiation detectors
> 
> Mayor Richard Daley acknowledged today passengers on a flight from Tokyo had set off radiation detectors at OHare International Airport, but he offered no details and said federal officials will be handling the situation.


This shows that there is particulate fallout and not just the Radiation in air. In another article on this it stated that the Air Filtration System on the aircraft also tested positive.

The levels were low but keep in mind that the particles if inhaled/induced have half-lives of many years.

----------


## 00_Pete

> This video explains how EVERYTHING is Connected Together.  Not for those with a closed mind.  I found this on the david icke forum (The News Behind the News section).  The poster behind this video is called "tintin"  follow his/her posts as I do believe he is on to something.  Connections!  Connects dots from the Nuclear thing in Japan to the coming Financial Collase.  I just discovered this forum discussion a couple of weeks ago myself. Check it out.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeOoh...layer_embedded


No man, the Illuminati cant control earthquakes.

----------


## Matt Collins

> DHS to start additional screening if you are coming from Japan....


Shouldnt the DHS do this before contaminated people get on an airplane? Having radioactive dust being blown around trapped inside of a tin can and being circulated into the breathing system of the plane seems a bit dangerous to me. But then again, I'm not an expert.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Shouldnt the DHS do this before contaminated people get on an airplane? Having radioactive dust being blown around trapped inside of a tin can and being circulated into the breathing system of the plane seems a bit dangerous to me. But then again, I'm not an expert.


Hopefully they are doing screenings for radiation before people get on the plane. Perhaps radiation can get in the plane during the flight through the radiation cloud between Japan and the US...

----------


## pcosmar

When people dressed like this,





are telling you everything is fine, Don't believe them.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> when people dressed like this,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are telling you everything is fine, don't believe them.


:d :d :d :d :d :d :d

OK SMILIES are BROKEN! - JOSH!

----------


## Roxi

> btw: Japan got 66M in donations, a forth of what Haiti got at the same post disaster point....


Keep in mind, Haiti has little infrastructure, and was already a very poor nation. Japan is one of the richest nations in the world, and the Japanese Red Cross has said they aren't sure what they need at this point. Also, after Haiti, Chile, and New Zealand, many Americans who typically give to these sort of things are spent on their charity donations for the year already.

----------


## Acala

> Keep in mind, Haiti has little infrastructure, and was already a very poor nation. Japan is one of the richest nations in the world, and the Japanese Red Cross has said they aren't sure what they need at this point. Also, after Haiti, Chile, and New Zealand, many Americans who typically give to these sort of things are spent on their charity donations for the year already.


Exactly right.  Throwing money at Japan isn't going to help.  They just have a great big horrible mess to clean up and that will take time and lots of people with shovels, trucks, and front loaders, which Japan already has.  Money won't make it happen faster.  I wish I knew what WOULD help.

----------


## s35wf

> Exactly right.  Throwing money at Japan isn't going to help.  They just have a great big horrible mess to clean up and that will take time and lots of people with shovels, trucks, and front loaders, which Japan already has.  Money won't make it happen faster.  I wish I knew what WOULD help.



This is all any of us lil people over here can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g4Qu...layer_embedded

----------


## MelissaWV

> Exactly right.  Throwing money at Japan isn't going to help.  They just have a great big horrible mess to clean up and that will take time and lots of people with shovels, trucks, and front loaders, which Japan already has.  Money won't make it happen faster.  I wish I knew what WOULD help.


That is the intangible at this point.  There is a great deal of help, though I wish so much of it didn't come in the form of military folks who were already there.  

Haiti had pretty much nothing before the disaster.

Japan is in a really bad spot, but just part of Japan at this point.  The pictures you see are of a certain area only.  There are resources available from the rest of the country, and places from which aid can be staged and distributed.  There is still even communication (people Tweeting, using the internet to find lost loved ones).

Haiti was a different kettle of fish.

----------


## raiha

> Keep in mind, Haiti has little infrastructure, and was already a very poor nation. Japan is one of the richest nations in the world, and the Japanese Red Cross has said they aren't sure what they need at this point. Also, after Haiti, Chile, and New Zealand, many Americans who typically give to these sort of things are spent on their charity donations for the year already.


Compassion fatigue is difficult especially in current economic uncertainty. What is emerging from this, is the frailty of human life. Disaster can strike at any time. We don't know ourselves when we will be in the shoes of the people of Sendai and further north. I can't help thinking that these events are catapaulting human beings into an existential crisis. I just heard the Russian Minister of Emergency give an anti-war speech. He said when you see the scale of this destruction and the risk of many countries being contaminated by radiation, it makes more sense to work together to look after one another. Perhaps the human species is, in fact, evolving after all.
pS I am not a NWO shill.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> That is the intangible at this point.  There is a great deal of help, though I wish so much of it didn't come in the form of military folks who were already there.  
> 
> Haiti had pretty much nothing before the disaster.
> 
> Japan is in a really bad spot, but just part of Japan at this point.  The pictures you see are of a certain area only.  There are resources available from the rest of the country, and places from which aid can be staged and distributed.  There is still even communication (people Tweeting, using the internet to find lost loved ones).
> 
> Haiti was a different kettle of fish.


Congresswoman/Representative Maxine Water (D-CA)
Maxine Maxine... wherefore art thou Maxine...  MIA?

She loves giving US Taxpayer money away, of her choice... no money should be given. If someone wants to donate their money, time, resources, expertise, have at it. But don't take from the taxpayer like Maxine Waters love t steal... especially when Japan holds almost a Trillion dollars of our debt and the US is going to spend money on Japan back? Just another data point for Washington propaganda money/resource usage for coming budgets next fiscal year, just watch. Meh

----------


## Tinnuhana

Sorry I haven't been following this thread of late: getting really burnt out on 24/7 disaster. In fact, local TV has gone back to a lot of regular programming (or re-runs). Here's a handy source we're using to keep up on what "they" want us to know: You can register to receive e-mailed updates from the U.S. Embassy regarding the safety of Americans in Japan by visiting http://travel.state.gov.

----------


## Nate-ForLiberty

> :d :d :d :d :d :d :d
> 
> OK SMILIES are BROKEN! - JOSH!


!

Smilies aren't broken. vBulletin sees ALL CAPS and makes them lowercase lol!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Nice map... by JAIF

----------


## cswake

It seems that the Obama Administration wanted to play politics with Japanese lives and made U.S. help with the nuclear reactor ... conditional.  The Japanese didn't like the offer, so we haven't been helping until recently...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/9428501.stm
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_646444.html




> The United States made the offer immediately after the disaster caused damage to Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant, the Yomiuri Shimbun said, quoting a senior official of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan.
> 
> According to the unnamed senior official, US support was based on dismantling the troubled reactors run by Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco) some 250km north-east of Tokyo, the mass-circulation daily said.

----------


## nayjevin

Black Eyed Peas just dedicated a song on American Idol to the Japanese.  Song contained the lyric,

"Me love you long time so you know the meaning"

How sensitive.

----------


## denison

Damn, where's a 9/11 joke when you need one.

http://www.ooze.com/articles/9-11-jokes.html

----------


## QueenB4Liberty

Now apparently they want all Americans out of Japan. At least that's what my fiance's friend was told by the state department over in Japan. As were all of her American friends.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Active Wikipedia page is up for Fukushima:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...lear_accidents

Very detailed.

----------


## doodle

*UN: Radioactive Plume Could Come to SoCal By Friday* 

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,2685193.story

----------


## Roxi

> Black Eyed Peas just dedicated a song on American Idol to the Japanese.  Song contained the lyric,
> 
> "Me love you long time so you know the meaning"
> 
> How sensitive.


I was just coming here to post this...I am still dumbfounded by this. I'm even more surprised no one is talking about it yet.

----------


## AFPVet

What are the expected radiation levels? I have a difficult time believing what I hear unless I see the measurements myself. I have worked around nuclear technology and I know that radiation is nothing to joke around with.

----------


## devil21

> I was just coming here to post this...I am still dumbfounded by this. I'm even more surprised no one is talking about it yet.


Well thats just stupid, since the "Me love you long time" thing came from the movie Full Metal Jacket, which was based in VIETNAM.  Idiots abound.

Oh yeah and it's pretty crass regardless.

----------


## Kylie

Tasteless. Kind of like Black Eyed Peas. 



So Japan's wanting us all out, or is the US wanting all citizens out?

----------


## CaliforniaMom

Does anyone have a time estimate of when the radiation is supposed to hit southern California Friday (tomorrow)?
Why isn't the military or EPA or government telling us the exact amount of radiation, and just telling us not to worry? 
I plan to stay indoors until the whole thing passes.

----------


## Tinnuhana

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110317005354.htm
This is Daily Yomiuri in English, in case it hasn't been posted yet.
Rumors abound on the bases, too, but this is what some are saying:
Dependents and possibly other personnel within the perceived danger zone may be temporarily moved to bases outside the zone. This could be bases in Korea, where housing has been going up, or south (Okinawa). 
We have been brainstorming (not based on fact at all) about moving all the MCAS Futenma helos, etc. to the Navy side of the Kadena flight line and put up an enormous tent city on the Futenma flight line. The local porta-potty companies would really make a bundle on that! 
And don't even ask why all of a sudden, our gym got new rods (not fuel rods) and shower curtains.
this may turn out something like when Clark AB had to shut down when Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines.

----------


## MikeStanart

> Does anyone have a time estimate of when the radiation is supposed to hit southern California Friday (tomorrow)?
> Why isn't the military or EPA or government telling us the exact amount of radiation, and just telling us not to worry? 
> I plan to stay indoors until the whole thing passes.


Stay safe!

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Worst case scenario.

----------


## Vessol

Japanese Nuclear Disaster Explained with Poop and Farts

----------


## Brian4Liberty

I was blown away, what could I say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ92eyxnxmQ

----------


## YumYum

*Japan asks for US help in nuclear crisis*

By ERIC TALMADGE and MARI YAMAGUCHI, Associated Press Eric Talmadge And Mari Yamaguchi, Associated Press – 2 mins ago

YAMAGATA, Japan – Japan reached out Friday to the U.S. for help in reining in the crisis at its dangerously overheated nuclear complex, while the U.N. atomic energy chief called the disaster a race against the clock that demands global cooperation.

At the stricken complex, military fire trucks began spraying the troubled reactor units again Friday morning, with tons of water arcing over the facility in desperate attempts to douse the units and prevent meltdowns that could spew dangerous levels of radiation.

"The whole world, not just Japan, is depending on them," Tokyo office worker Norie Igarashi, 44, said of the emergency teams at the plants.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110318/...pan_earthquake

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Does anyone have a time estimate of when the radiation is supposed to hit southern California Friday (tomorrow)?
> Why isn't the military or EPA or government telling us the exact amount of radiation, and just telling us not to worry? 
> I plan to stay indoors until the whole thing passes.


Fri would be the initial plume which wasn't that radioactive - be more concerned tues, weds, thurs...

----------


## devil21

Japanese media is apparently showing stupid tv shows instead of anything related to the serious problems there.  I guess EVERY government eventually proves itself to be nothing but propagandists and liars by omission.

----------


## CaliforniaMom

> Fri would be the initial plume which wasn't that radioactive - be more concerned tues, weds, thurs...


I bought enough food for a few weeks, so I can stay indoors through it all.

----------


## YumYum

> I bought enough food for a few weeks, so I can stay indoors through it all.


I just bought a hundred dollars worth of canned wild salmon, and I am buying more today. I predict it will sell on eBay for $25+ a can.

----------


## Krugerrand

> I just bought a hundred dollars worth of canned wild salmon, and I am buying more today. I predict it will sell on eBay for $25+ a can.


and if not, you can always open up a canned salmon stand on the streets.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Are there specialized suits that workers can wear in a mission critical meltdown situation ?  You think they would have emergency nuclear suits to limit as much as possible radiation levels and allow workers to try to fix things. 
> 
> Anyone know of such a thing?  Would be akin to a bullet proof vest in a military combat situation for a soldier.


Seems there is a new fabric and that the inventor has both sent available Hong Kong stocks to Japan and has stepped up production...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/1...h-florida.html

Still conflicting reports on the amount of fuel in the various pools...

Also conflicting reports on the official downgrading of the crisis from a 4 to either a 5 or a 6... [Edit - is now being widely reported to be a "5" according to Japan...]

A bit off topic will be a study of the total "pollution" from this event in the winds coming from Japan. While we have been focusing on radiological threats, someone earlier mentioned the other industrial facilities that have burned and otherwise released their toxins... While I can appreciate the distances involved and the dispersion factor, it seems ridiculous to think that dispersion will be uniform and I have heard reports of localized higher concentrations far from such disasters... I suppose there is not much that can be done besides being as informed as possible... One positive of these type events is that it is often a spur to get people to consider disaster preparedness...

Sad that it took a fire in #4 before anyone started talking about that particular threat...

Updates
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,7832119.story



> *Radiation hampers efforts to restore power to nuclear plant in Japan*
> Efforts to try to restore power to reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi complex are interrupted as high radiation forces the withdrawal of workers. But it's unclear whether a return of power will help. Spent fuel rods remain the biggest concern.
> ...
> But photographs taken by helicopters and a Global Hawk drone operated by the U.S. Air Force indicate the water is not lasting very long in the pool, suggesting that there is a major breach in the walls of the vessel holding the fuel rods, according to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> and a Global Hawk drone operated by the U.S. Air Force


We're everywhere you want to be.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Reactor #4 pool supposedly has a hole in it... = guaranteed melt down of 570 rods
Reactor #3 doesn't seem to have a pool left....
Reactor #2 now hooked up to power, but the pumps are not working....
Reactors #5 and 6 pools still heating up
Reactor #1 - Well, they stopped talking about that days ago....

Efforts to pump water into them via water cannon is un-conclusive.... 

translation = situation getting much worse and totally out of control!

MSM response - well, lets focus on Libya and sing "don't worry, be happy" re: S. CA fallout

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest JAIF updates: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/

----------


## devil21

Not good news over at ZH.  Apparently TEPCO's head starting crying during a press conference when explaining the real situation on the ground.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tep...shima-disaster

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

I read somewhere of possible reasons for a cracked pool, one listed was falling debris. Looking at the cutaway... (ruh roh, WIKIpedia is deleting them)... 

about the only thing up there to fall is the Gantry, (a large hoist on overhead tracks).  The tracks were on the upper framework structure and looking at the following picture of Unit 3, I wonder how it could be still standing

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Japan Radiation sets off O'Hare Airport Alarms*

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/....shtml?tag=pop




> Trace amounts of radiation from Japan have been detected in Chicago, CBS News station WBBM-TV reports.
> 
> 
> Travelers  coming in from Japan on Wednesday triggered radiation detectors at  O'Hare International Airport as they passed through customs. Only very  small amounts of radiation were detected.
> 
> 
> Feds move more radiation monitors to West Coast
> 
> U.S. nuke chief: I hope my info on Japan is wrong
> ...

----------


## s35wf

> Not good news over at ZH.  Apparently TEPCO's head starting crying during a press conference when explaining the real situation on the ground.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tep...shima-disaster



PLEASE Lord, cool this thing down!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Not good news over at ZH.  Apparently TEPCO's head starting crying during a press conference when explaining the real situation on the ground.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tep...shima-disaster


Picture is worth a million words

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Ummm - HELLO???

Just because the MSM is ignoring this doesn't mean it isn't a situation going to hell!

-t

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

The MIT blog on this incident mentioned the 4ch map...




> A note about predictions of future radiation doses: in recent days a map has circulated the internet, purporting to predict high doses to the Western U.S.  This map bears the seal of the Australian Radiation Service, which did not produce it. The map has been refuted by the U.S. NRC, and experts state that it more closely resembles predictions for doses after deployment of a nuclear weapon than those for a situation such as that unfolding at present.


Lots more on the blog...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Has everyone forgotten about this just because the MSM is ignoring it????

----------


## MozoVote

This situation is about as close to textbook *totally $#@!ed up* as I've ever seen occur on the news.

It's starting to feel like this will not have a "Chilean miner" happy ending.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Google news congregater - only stories on Japan disaster is some public hairbrain scheme about a pressurized dome to contain radiation and Japan vow to rebuild....

----------


## Tinnuhana

Recent correspondence from DoDEA admin:

These are resources for your information and convenience only; their inclusion here is not an endorsement.
TO FIND LOVED ONES:
https://safeandwell.communityos.org/
http://japan.person-finder.appspot.com/?lang=en
FOR US CITIZENS TRAVELING IN JAPAN OR IN NEED OF EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE:
http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/c...a/pa_5378.html
JapanEmergencyUSC@state.gov

HOW TO HELP:
USAID: http://tinyurl.com/6aa79dl
 MEDIA REPORTS AND OFFICIAL INFORMATION:
Please stay tuned to your local AFN affiliate, command web site and Facebook page if available:
Misawa AB 35th FW FB page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/35th-F...34558899894944
AFN Misawa FB page: http://www.facebook.com/AFNMisawa
Yokota AB FB page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Yokota...31001683600206
Eagle 810 FB page (AFN radio for Kanto Plains): http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eagle8...6529725?ref=ts
Commander Fleet Activities Yokosuka FB page: http://www.facebook.com/cfayokosuka
AFN Yokosuka FB page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/AFN-Yokosuka/108779326522
NAF Atsugi FB page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/NAF-Atsugi/192130925574
Camp Zama FB page: http://www.facebook.com/USARJ
MCAS Iwakuni FB page: http://www.facebook.com/MCCSIwakuni
Stars & Stripes: http://tinyurl.com/67t8hav
Good, no-nonsense information on the status of Japan's nuclear plants: http://tinyurl.com/4cvbltw
BBC: http://tinyurl.com/6zvhhqt
NHK: http://tinyurl.com/4hv73th
USGS: http://tinyurl.com/5rf3fpz
NOAA http://tinyurl.com/5s7y87k

Voluntary evacs are for 30 days only and paid for by the one(s) evacuating. Must evacuate to CONUS. There are rumors floating about if full-scale evacs are needed, people will be coming here.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Fox is hyping some report that one of theiir guests is saying has been widely discredited and that there are tone of other reports that say it's a problem.... They keep cutting the guy off.

----------


## Carson

> Does anyone have a time estimate of when the radiation is supposed to hit southern California Friday (tomorrow)?
> Why isn't the military or EPA or government telling us the exact amount of radiation, and just telling us not to worry? 
> I plan to stay indoors until the whole thing passes.


Keeping the kids in would be another whole thing altogether. Hopefully the levels will be low enough they can either outrun or dodge between them.

I saw this posted a couple of pages ago.




> *UN: Radioactive Plume Could Come to SoCal By Friday* 
> 
> http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,2685193.story


I heard on the news this morning that a test site they set up at University of California Berkeley had detected a very tiny amount. I was under the impression it was only enough that they had decided they had some.

----------


## Carson

> Has everyone forgotten about this just because the MSM is ignoring it????


I think everyone has done what they can and is waiting and watching. I don't think it has been forgotten.

----------


## Carson

> Not good news over at ZH.  Apparently TEPCO's head starting crying during a press conference when explaining the real situation on the ground.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tep...shima-disaster


That seems to be their way to show remorse. Actually to me I think they have been a lot more open and honest with us than we got with the Three Mile Island travesty. The lies there nearly killed the industry and for good reason. If they would have just told the truth from day one the industry would be far more advanced than it is now. I don't actually remember them ever coming clean on what happened. I thought they were still keeping their lies alive. Only since this incident have I heard the story of some of what really happened. Then again maybe I forgot them coming clean.

The Japanese seem to be getting us some answers when they have them. I sure they are in the dark about much of where they stand. We need to stand behind them as much as we can...

and waaaaay back.

At least for now.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Here is a Russian report that talks of the ocean absorbing the brunt of it. 

Talks about weather modification, too bad they can't create a localized storm over the plant...




> Japan's neighbors are worried that the radioactive clouds released by explosions at the Fukushima nuclear power plant could reach their territory. In the best-case scenario, the clouds will be blown out over the Pacific Ocean, where chemical reagents could be used to force the radioactive particles to fall to the ocean in rain. While this would impact fish and other sea animals, it would also save human lives... The deadly clouds released by the explosion at Chernobyl could have reached Moscow and other large industrial centers otherwise, but reagents were used to stimulate rain...


In other news I've seen the sarcophagus solution mentioned roundly... Conflicting reports on the power hook-up, the state of #4's pool, and the effectiveness of the water cannon... in a "race against time"... 

Will Rogers once mentioned something about America having two great friends, the Atlantic and Pacific oceans... In this case he seems pretty spot on... Is quite a mess though and we can expect to see long term effects... 

Some of the rhetoric has been ridiculous. The one guy who keeps saying "not significantly worse"...

----------


## Carson

I see this article on the levels.

*Minuscule Amounts of Radiation From Japan Detected by California Station*


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...o-station.html

----------


## AFPVet

Well, we need to keep on monitoring the radiation levels and take appropriate action.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

U.S.A.F.  MISAWA Air Base (northeast Japan) base badge

this is wonderful P.R. to the foreign communities:

----------


## KramerDSP

This thread, titled "Japanese nuclear plant may only have a few hours...." may end up becoming one of the longest threads in RPF history. This thing is going to go on for weeks, I believe.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> This thread, titled "Japanese nuclear plant may only have a few hours...." may end up becoming one of the longest threads in RPF history. This thing is going to go on for weeks, I believe.


still pales in comparison to the picture thread, which is the #1 thread, currently. If we can top 78,000 views and and top 1,891 replies....then it _would_ be the ultimate threat...but that's not going to happen. =p

----------


## Anti Federalist

> still pales in comparison to the picture thread, which is the #1 thread, currently. If we can top 78,000 views and and top 1,891 replies....then it _would_ be the ultimate threat...but that's not going to happen. =p


Actually, for views, this one holds the RPF record at 277,666

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eapons**/page5

You still got an epic thread going here.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> Actually, for views, this one holds the RPF record at 277,666
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eapons**/page5
> 
> You still got an epic thread going here.


Wow. Ten bucks says it's because of all the DoHS and BATF agents looking at it x3

----------


## Carson

Maybe we need some more pictures. I ripped these and the comment off of basemetal on Fark.



Think of all the mutant sushi that will become available...

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Wow. Ten bucks says it's because of all the DoHS and BATF agents looking at it x3


LoL - Give that man a cigar!

<<<Hello agents, you fargin iceholes.

----------


## Anti Federalist

A more accurate chart.

Although I question the "arbitrary units" scale.

That's one of the things that I've found so frustrating throughout this whole thing, our globalist masters, intent on setting standards of measurement, have in the case of radiation, thrown up an utterly baffling series of "units" that are unclear, difficult for laypeople to quantify and use, and in many cases seem contradictory.

Everything from grays, to rems, to rads, to banana units, to sieverts to columbs per kilogram, a minefield of metric booby traps.

Just like everything else they touch, supposed global standardization results in a vast fog of endless permutations of the information needed.

----------


## Roxi

I have had 4 different friends on facebook, none of which know each other, all between the coast and AZ asking about a "low lying haze" and "weird hazy foggy type thing" etc... not a single news source in the areas are talking about it, but all their neighbors/friends are. :/ hmmmm.

----------


## steph3n

> I have had 4 different friends on facebook, none of which know each other, all between the coast and AZ asking about a "low lying haze" and "weird hazy foggy type thing" etc... not a single news source in the areas are talking about it, but all their neighbors/friends are. :/ hmmmm.


Near full moon, not a big deal.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> Near full moon, not a big deal.


Yup; I saw what they're probably seeing last night, and it's physically impossible for there to be any amount of radioactive material where I live.

----------


## Kludge

> Yup; I saw what they're probably seeing last night, and it's physically impossible for there to be any amount of radioactive material where I live.


Underground bunker?

I read keeping something like 50m of solid rock all around the room your computer is in will prevent all soft DRAM errors from cosmic rays. Uh, fwiw.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> Underground bunker?


A fox never reveals his secrets.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...lear.reactors/

abnormally high levels of radiation had been detected in some, but not all tested samples of spinach and milk from the Japanese prefectures of Fukushima and Ibaraki. 

This news came hours after the fight to curb further widespread radiation release entered a new stage, with an unmanned contraption spraying seawater continuously to cool down the No. 3 reactor's overheating spent nuclear fuel pool.

[This is presumably easier, as according to photographic information, the spent fuel rod pool seems to have relocated itself from the penthouse to the basement...]




> That mangled mess on the left is #3, the one that was using MOX fuel. Think the spent rod pool is still there?


[MOX fuel = plutonium]

authorities are also looking into spraying the No. 4 reactor and its spent fuel pool as well.

[#4 - dry, out of control, poss hole in fuel rod pool, probably impossible to control.  For now, it sounds like they have givin up on it and are focusing on what they may be able to control.]

Also Saturday, a Tokyo Electric official said three holes apiece have been drilled in the ceilings of the Nos. 5 and 6 units in order to alleviate pressure. A hydrogen gas buildup had previously contributed to explosions at the Nos. 1, 2 and 3 reactors.

A water pump, powered by a second diesel generator, began circulating water in the No. 6 units spent fuel pool shortly after 5 a.m. Saturday,

The effort continued Saturday to set up electricity to power cooling systems for the facility's six reactors, one that was first slated to be done Thursday. Workers had laid much of the 1.5 kilometers of cable near the No. 2 unit but, as of noon Saturday, a Tokyo Electric official said it was not connected.

The official said workers hope to fully restore a stable power supply by day's end Saturday to the plant's Nos. 1, 2, 5 and 6 reactors. The plan is to get power up and running Sunday for the Nos. 3 and 4 reactors.

efforts to use seawater to cool overheated spent nuclear fuel pools -- both by pumping in seawater, as well as in the case of Unit 3 in which water has come from the ground -- in and around the Nos. 1, 2 and 3 reactors appear to be working.

While each of those reactors have damage to their fuel cores, Andrew said they appear to be relatively stable for now.

Still, no one has said that authorities are totally in the clear. In fact, authorities acknowledged Friday that the situation is far more serious than they'd originally estimated.

Peter Bradford, a member of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission when the Three Mile Island incident occurred, said the Fukushima Daiichi crisis is worse than the partial meltdown of a single reactor at the Pennsylvania plant.

"In terms of severity, this accident left Three Mile Island in the rear-view mirror several days ago," he said.

----------


## Carson

Seen this thread?

*Remaining Workers at the Fukushima Plant bid farewell to their families.* 

Something is in my eyes.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Video uses models. It seems to me this pundit states that ~1000 tons of water is needed in each pool. Other reports are that they sprayed ~50 tons into #3 during yesterdays operation, with no idea of how much is reaching its mark... 




In other news there is still disagreement on whether this is a 5 or a 6, but I find that a bit ridiculous as TMI only involved 1 unit, it was contained in the core vessel, there were no problems with the spent fuel pools, etc... I suppose the rational is the relative isolation of Japan and the prevailing winds mean that the primary effects will be "local"

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2288824/

Japan Restores Power At Stricken Nuclear Reactors

Officials yesterday installed a mile-long extension cord in a bid to restore power to cooling systems at Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, and were reported to have successfully *restarted a pump and restored cooling functions at two of the less badly damaged reactors*. Engineers said that power would be restored to the other reactors in stages starting Sunday morning. Still, officials warned that *there remained a "possibility" that cooling equipment at the reactors was already too badly damaged to be useful*, with one senior Tepco manager telling reporters that *the situation "does not allow optimism."*

[...]

*officials reportedly delayed using seawater to cool the overheating plant because they were reluctant to risk damaging the company's assets*

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...3Bv_story.html

At the Fukushima Daiichi plant, emergency crews set up a fire truck with a 70-foot-tall water cannon that sprayed three tons of seawater a minute on the No. 3 reactor. No. 3 is the only one of the plant’s six reactors to use plutonium, which is considered more dangerous than uranium.

The spraying, which did not require human beings to be present in the zone of elevated radiation, began at about 2 p.m. Saturday local time and was to continue for about seven hours, officials said, with the water split between reactors No. 3 and No. 4. Both were severely damaged by the 9.0-magnitude earthquake and subsequent tsunami that struck March 11 .

Officials said as much as 1,260 tons of seawater could be sprayed on the Fukushima Daiichi facility Saturday.

In addition to the water spraying, officials were working to reestablish electrical power at reactors No. 1 and No. 2, an effort that would potentially allow cooling efforts to resume in those facilities, which had suffered less damage. Officials said that on Sunday they would wash water pumps and other equipment that are covered in salt and then run the electricity through them to determine if they are functional.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> http://slatest.slate.com/id/2288824/
> 
> Japan Restores Power At Stricken Nuclear Reactors
> 
> Officials yesterday installed a mile-long extension cord in a bid to restore power to cooling systems at Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, and were reported to have successfully *restarted a pump and restored cooling functions at two of the less badly damaged reactors*. Engineers said that power would be restored to the other reactors in stages starting Sunday morning. Still, officials warned that *there remained a "possibility" that cooling equipment at the reactors was already too badly damaged to be useful*, with one senior Tepco manager telling reporters that *the situation "does not allow optimism."*
> 
> [...]
> 
> *officials reportedly delayed using seawater to cool the overheating plant because they were reluctant to risk damaging the company's assets*


The link they are using to back up their statement that the Japanese have "restarted a pump and restored cooling functions at two of the less badly damaged reactors" is a NYT article from yesterday that does not state this, and other recent reports are not mentioning such a breakthrough. This was posted 10 minutes ago

http://www.herald.ie/world-news/last...s-2585778.html




> The power line reached the complex yesterday, making the final link without setting off a spark -- and potentially an explosion at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant on Japan's north-east coast.
> 
> "Most of the motors and switchboards were submerged by the tsunami and they cannot be used," said Hidehiko Nishiyama of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.


Still looking for confirmation on the pump restart...

----------


## crazyfacedjenkins

> http://slatest.slate.com/id/2288824/
> ...
> *officials reportedly delayed using seawater to cool the overheating plant because they were reluctant to risk damaging the company's assets*


I caught this pretty early one, I knew it would eventually come out. Profit is a great motivator for good...

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest stautus of Fukushima Saturday night by FAIJ:  http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300544332P.pdf

----------


## Carson

> I have had 4 different friends on facebook, none of which know each other, all between the coast and AZ asking about a "low lying haze" and "weird hazy foggy type thing" etc... not a single news source in the areas are talking about it, but all their neighbors/friends are. :/ hmmmm.


That is pretty interesting. I just noticed the haze in a news report of Fukushima but it could of been caused by the magnification of the lens they were using because it was so far away. During the local part of the report I could see haze. 

Then I remember reading that there are, or where, some of the machine shops that machine radioactive material for the laboratories near here. It was said that when they would return in the morning there was so much radioactivity on the floor that the oil would get suspended in a fog layer through the shop. I made a note to myself to try and stay away from jobs in that area. I don't know what it was they were machining or if they still do.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.neimagazine.com/story.asp...ryCode=2059188

*TEPCO restarts unit 5 cooling pump*

19 March 2011

Work has been proceeding to reconnect the Fukushima Daiichi plant to the grid to restart reactor coolant pumps. 

Utility TEPCO has announced it has restored one of three emergency diesel generators at unit 6, and as a result, one of the residual heat removal (RHR) pumps at unit 5 has started up. Two other pumps at unit 5 will be restarted after a pump at unit 6 is restored, work that is underway as of 12:30pm GMT.

The six-unit station is in two blocks; units 1-4 are in one block, and units 5&6 are in another slightly farther up the coast.

TEPCO reports that the auxiliary transformer of unit 2 is receiving electricity from an external transmission line, and it is now installing a power cable from that transformer to a temporary power panel. TEPCO also reports it is working to receive external power to units 3 and 4. It also reports that it has completed repairs to an emergency generator at unit 6, and is working on receiving external power supply to units 5&6. According to the Japanese Atomic Industry Forum, external power supply for units 1&2 is due to be reconnected today, and units 3-6 tomorrow.

Units of the Japanese Self Defence Force, riot police, US Army fire engines and most recently the Tokyo Fire Department's Hyper Rescue have been spraying and dropping water on the spent fuel pool to cool it.

Radiation levels remain relatively high; a rate of 364.5 microSv/h was detected at the west gate today. Yesterday (18 March) the Japanese Nuclear Industrial and Safety Agency raised the consequences of part of the Fukushima Daiichi emergency from INES level 4 , 'accident with local consequences' 4 to level 5,'accident with wider consequences'.

----------


## KramerDSP

Tweets from Steve Herman, an English-language writer based in Asia. He has been very consistent with his reporting and is not one to engage in hyperbole.




> W7VOA Steve Herman 
> Kyodo: Gov't says radioactive iodine beyond limit detected in tap water in Fukushima.





> W7VOA Steve Herman 
> I brushed my teeth in #Fukushima tap water all week long.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Secondary confirmation (though the creds of the first report on this are impeccable) 

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/421645...s-asiapacific/

Nearly 300 engineers got a second diesel generator attached to reactor No. 6 working, the nuclear safety agency said. They used the power to restart cooling pumps on No. 5.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Secondary confirmation (though the creds of the first report on this are impeccable) 
> 
> http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/421645...s-asiapacific/
> 
> Nearly 300 engineers got a second diesel generator attached to reactor No. 6 working, the nuclear safety agency said. They used the power to restart cooling pumps on No. 5.


While this is good news, the reporting still seems inaccurate. A quick reading of the reports tie the new cable in with the pump restarts. A careful reading sees that the power line has successfully made it to a transformer and is being branched out, and the pump restarts are due to a separate project to get the generators back online... Regardless, getting stable grid power to the site is a huge gain as is the successful restart of the cooling system in units 5 & 6...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> While this is good news, the reporting still seems inaccurate. A quick reading of the reports tie the new cable in with the pump restarts. A careful reading sees that the power line has successfully made it to a transformer and is being branched out, and the pump restarts are due to a separate project to get the generators back online... Regardless, getting stable grid power to the site is a huge gain as is the successful restart of the cooling system in units 5 & 6...


No - they got a generator on #6 up and with it were able to get a pump on #5 going.  The cable from the power grid is different.  They got that connected to #2, IIRC, and powered it up without blowing the place up, but haven't been able to use it to start any pumps as most are under water and corroded from the sea water and borax.

Pumps on #6 are still not up.  Just the backup generator.

-t

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

There are interactive graphics on this recent WSJ article that raise another issue. On the graphics they state that the upper structure protects the spent fuel pools from weather and "attacK". Does anyone think that the roofs we all saw blow off the buildings would stand up to any sort of credible aerial attack?

The article also uses the ominous phrase "fog of war" in regards to realistic radiological release estimates...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> There are interactive graphics on this recent WSJ article that raise another issue. On the graphics they state that the upper structure protects the spent fuel pools from weather and "attacK". Does anyone think that the roofs we all saw blow off the buildings would stand up to any sort of credible aerial attack?
> 
> The article also uses the ominous phrase "fog of war" in regards to realistic radiological release estimates...


They didn't seem to have much problem drilling 3 holes each into the roofs of reactors #5 and 6 - how "hardened" does that sound to you?  There have been other articles stating that the building containers over the pools were weak.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

reminder: reactor containment shell on #2 is cracked.  #2-4 are the primary problem right now.
#2 because of cracked reacter core
#3 because of plutonium fuel rods.  Also, Pool appears to no longer exist due to explosion.
#4 because of cracked (holes) in spent fuel storage pool that contains recent (Nov) rods that are still very hot.  Pool is apparently dry and meltdown eminent.

----------


## crazyfacedjenkins

What the hell do they plan to do with that water pump? It's all gone molten by now, throw some lead in there and cement that $#@! over like the Russians did.

----------


## crazyfacedjenkins

> I have had 4 different friends on facebook, none of which know each other, all between the coast and AZ asking about a "low lying haze" and "weird hazy foggy type thing" etc... not a single news source in the areas are talking about it, but all their neighbors/friends are. :/ hmmmm.


Full moon, it was quite beautiful where I was at.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Any updates while the country is sooo distracted over the manufactured "crisis"?????

----------


## YumYum

> Any updates while the country is sooo distracted over the manufactured "crisis"?????


https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/w...apan.html?_r=1

http://www.legitgov.org/67-exposed-r...ioactive-leaks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUTo6kSZlPI

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/w...apan.html?_r=1
> 
> http://www.legitgov.org/67-exposed-r...ioactive-leaks
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUTo6kSZlPI


link #1 so this morning....

link #2 kinda YAWN....

link #3 OMG! - I had to FF through that thing!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

any update while the word is distracted by Libya?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Some good clips of onsite operations. The cement pump looks a hell of a lot more effective than anything else I've seen for saturating the place...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Some good clips of onsite operations. The cement pump looks a hell of a lot more effective than anything else I've seen for saturating the place...


Girl in mask w/ nose exposed...  hmm - OK their emergency education system sucks....

Please tell me this is NOT one of their "engineers"!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest Status Update *1000L 20 March* from JAIF:  http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300584349P.pdf

----------


## Carson

Here is a link to the EPA radiation monitors. This may be data from the monitors we heard they were installing a few days ago.

They are nice in that they are charted in a time line. 

http://www.epa.gov/radiation/

----------


## AFPVet

> Here is a link to the EPA radiation monitors. This may be data from the monitors we heard they were installing a few days ago.
> 
> They are nice in that they are charted in a time line. 
> 
> http://www.epa.gov/radiation/


Thanks for the link!

----------


## Carson

*Tsunami of Tohoku Earthquake Before Wrecking the Coast* 




Found it on fark. This is a link to their comments.
*
What it's like to be minding your own business on a huge boat out to sea and HOLY SHIAT IT'S A TSUNAMI*

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Pressure problems in #3, (and an 80yr old women rescued from the wreckage)

http://galvestondailynews.com/ap/a9f8b0/




> Japan's efforts to ease nuke crisis hit setback
> 
> By Eric Talmadge
> Associated Press
> Published March 20, 2011
> FUKUSHIMA, Japan  An unexpected rise in pressure inside a troubled reactor set back efforts to bring Japan's overheating, leaking nuclear complex under control Sunday as concerns grew that as-yet minor contamination of food and water is spreading.
> 
> The pressure increase meant plant operators may need to deliberately release radioactive gas, prolonging a nuclear crisis that has consumed government attention even as it responded to the catastrophic earthquake and tsunami that savaged northeast Japan on March 11.
> 
> ...

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest Update status by JAIF, 2200L 20 March 2011: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300624909P.pdf

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/20/ja...japan-reactor/

Japan Nuclear Plant Says 2 of 6 Units Under Control

FUKUSHIMA, Japan -- The operator of Japan's crippled, leaking nuclear plant says two of the six reactor units are now safely under control after their fuel storage pools cooled down.

Tokyo Electric Power Company declared Units 5 and 6 safe Sunday night after days of pumping water into the reactors pool brought temperatures down.

Bringing the two units under control marks a minor advance in the efforts to stop the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex from leaking radiation. The two units are the least problematic of the six reactor units at the plant

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

There has basically been nothing written about the fallout since the 18th and it's generally of the "don't worry, be happy" variety.

I found an exception, though details are scant:

March 18th:
http://westmorelandtimes.com/news/20...-180311101601/

Radioactive fallout reaches California – experts concerned

Experts reported Friday morning that nuclear fallout from Japan has now reached some coastal areas of California and the southern portion of the state.

Government officials are saying the radiation is not enough to cause harm to humans, calling it “minuscule” but experts in the field of nuclear science have expressed what they are saying should be “a major concern for everyone in California and the surrounding states”, especially for the young and elderly.

March 20th:
http://westmorelandtimes.com/news/20...-200311043501/

Radiation detected in California and Washington

Certain levels of radiation were recently detected in California, as was reported in Westmoreland’s March 18th edition. It now appears Washington state has been affected by the radioactive fallout as well.

The Environmental Protection Agency reported yesterday that “the origin was determined to be consistent with a release from the Fukushima reactors in northern Japan.” Government officials claim the situation in Japan is improving; however, some experts report severe radiation poisoning throughout Japan, with the possibility of further disaster which could affect not only Japan, but also Hawaii, the entire West Coast, including surrounding states. 

====

Assuming there are no more problems, the most radioactive releases should be over our shores this upcoming week.  We can expect a media blackout about this.

If they have to vent #3, that's plutonium and about the worst that could head our way.

While the situation does look optimistic right now, reactors #1-4 could still go very bad.  Hopefully, the situation will simply continue to improve.  Looks like it's holding right now and not getting worse every day as it has since this disaster started.

It's still not over and hopefully won't disappear from the news this next week.

----------


## s35wf

Since radiation has possibly been detected on west coast, and to keep attn focused on things since it appears "libya" is now the main focus.  Bump.

Also heres a Radiation Chart which may appear helpful.  Found it on a twitter search link /Fuksiyma

http://xkcd.com/radiation

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest Status from JAIF: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/

Good and Bad... power lines connected to some reactors... *but workers were temporarily  evacuated after radiation rises.*
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...ar-plant-again




> Here is information regarding the status of Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station according to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.
> 
> Work to recover external AC power is in progress at unit-1 through 6. External AC power cable has already been connected to the distribution switchboards at unit-1 and 2. Power Center at unit-2 received electricity (15:46 March 20) and the integrity of each load is being confirmed. AC power will be provided to these units after current inspection to check problem. Works for laying electricity cable to the Power Center at unit-4 was completed around 15:00 on March 21.
> 
> The pressure of the Reactor Containment Vessel at unit 3 of Fukushima Daiichi rose once (320 kPa as of 11:00 March 20th) and dropped later. Monitoring the pressure continues (120 kPa as of 12:15 March 21).
> And at 18:00 on March 21, Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano announced that...
> 
> *After detecting radioactive material being beyond the government’s regulatory standard from spinach and kakina, the Prime Minister Kan ordered the governors of Fukushima, Ibaraki, Tochigi and Gunma prefectures that shipment of these vegetables would be restricted “for the time being”. The shipment of milk from Fukushima prefecture was also restricted. Edano repeatedly emphasized that it was an emergency measure just in case and they would have no harm to the health of people who ingest them.*

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

WHO is warning of "serious" food radiation...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/wl_nm/us_japan_quake




> The World Health Organization said on Monday that radiation in food after an earthquake damaged a Japanese nuclear plant was more serious than previously thought, eclipsing signs of progress in a battle to avert a catastrophic meltdown in its reactors.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> WHO is warning of "serious" food radiation...
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/wl_nm/us_japan_quake


No numbers on contamination contents... 

I did hear the US sent the nuke experts out of Yucca Mountain/southern NV and they're staged out of Yakota Air Base (Tokyo metro). They've been swabbing the base area and Tokyo metro. I haven't heard anything on numbers.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

US officials are tooting "the plants are stable" and "don't worry, be happy" - these are the major news headlines.  They also claim radiation containment is intact on reactors #1-3 despite multiple reports confirming the reactor containment vessel for #2 was cracked.   

Digging a bit deeper, at least one article provides other facts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...ar-plant-again

reporting smoke from the #3 reactor (plutonium) and workers being evacuated again.

Fox news reported smoke coming from 2 reactors (#2 an 3), not just one (#2 is white, so presumably radioactive steam, as has been venting from it for days.) and they said the the #3 reactor had caught fire again, along with the evacuation of workers again.  But it seems to be worse, as 2 US Navy ships left dock and hightailed it to sea, including an aircraft carrier (George Washington) that was in the middle of repairs.  Not clear which base (south of Tokyo), but This isn't normal and it presumably was from a base outside the 50 mile no-go zone.  Radiation levels are spiking as far away as 75 miles from the plant. 

Storage pool #7 got a rare mention in the article above:

A seventh storage pool at Fukushima

Sixty percent of the used fuel at the Fukushima plant is stored in a seventh shared storage pool located in a separate building, according to the Nuclear Energy Institute, a Washington-based policy organization for the nuclear industry.

*Electricity has not yet been restored to that pool*, and the temperature there is increasing very gradually, said TEPCOs Kenji Tateiwa.

"Weve confirmed that there is enough water and that the temperature is in a safe range, says Mr. Tateiwa. However, he was not able to provide exact figures for the temperature or water level. 

hmmm... lack of power to all other reactors has caused concern and problems with the pools, but this one which hasn't had power for the same length of time is OK for now.  Presumably the rods in it are older, thus cooler, but another concern to keep on the radar.

Inability to start pumps at #2 has been ID'd as an electrical short that has still not been fixed.

Radiation has contaminated more of the Japanese food and water supply.

-t

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> There has basically been nothing written about the fallout since the 18th and it's generally of the "don't worry, be happy" variety.


Yeah, there were several reports in California about detectable amounts of radiation here, and those stories disappeared. All stories now say "move along, nothing to see here". For the most part they are correct about the levels dispersing as the weather flows from Japan to here. But currents and flows don't always consistently disperse things. They sometimes bring them back together (not at the original concentrations of course). In other words, is it possible that most rain will be fine here, but in a localized area there may be higher than normal levels? The other problem is concentration in the food chain. Rain falls on grass, cows eat a lot of grass, radioactive elements concentrate in the milk. It would be really interesting to monitor milk here on the West Coast, but that probably won't happen.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

If you want uncontaminated milk for a while, you might run out now and try and find some that's been on the shelf since thurs or fri.  IIRC, it can be safely frozen.

Either that, or get powdered milk.  The instant kind is a lot easier to re-constitute. 

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldN...72K48M20110321

When the massive tsunami smacked into Fukushima Daiichi, the nuclear power plant was stacked high with more uranium than it was originally designed to hold

...

At the time of the March 11 earthquake, the reactor buildings at Fukushima held the equivalent of almost six years of the highly radioactive uranium fuel rods produced by the plant, according to a presentation by Tokyo Electric Power Co to a conference organized by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

...

When the quake hit, almost 4,000 uranium fuel assemblies were stored in deep pools of circulating water built into the highest floor of the Fukushima reactor buildings, according to company records. Each assembly stands about 3.5 meters high and even a decade after use emits enough radiation to kill a person standing nearby.

The spent radioactive fuel stored in the reactors represented more than three times the amount of radioactive material normally held in the active cores of the six reactors at the complex, according to Tokyo Electric briefings and its presentation to the IAEA.

The build-up of used fuel rods in the Fukushima reactor buildings has complicated the response to the continuing crisis at the complex and deepened its severity, officials and experts have said.

That has been especially the case at the No. 4 reactor, which was out of service at the time of the quake and had some 548, still-hot fuel assemblies cooling in a pool of water on its upper floor.

That reactor, which erupted into explosive flames twice last week, triggered a warning from U.S. officials last week about higher risks for radiation from the stricken plant than Japanese officials had disclosed.

David Lochbaum, a nuclear engineer with the U.S.-based Union of Concerned Scientists, said the spent fuel was vulnerable because it was protected only by the relatively "flimsy" outer shell of the reactors and reliant on a single, pump-driven cooling system.

"It's a recipe for disaster and that disaster is now unfolding in Japan," Lochbaum said.

...

More than 60 percent of the uranium stored at Fukushima Daiichi made it through the quake and tsunami without being destabilized because it was kept in a separate pool built in 1997 and in a number of metal casks that do not rely on outside power, Japanese nuclear safety officials said. 

...

The TEPCO presentation noted that the utility had taken steps to increase storage capacity for spent fuel at the plant complex beyond its original design. Those included "re-racking" the pools in the reactor buildings to increase their capacity and then building a separate large, pool outside and a separate hub of metal casks that do not need to rely on electricity.

But the only significant open space left for storage remained inside the reactor buildings, according to the document. TEPCO had the capacity to more than double the number of fuel assemblies stored in the reactors from 3,998 at the time of the quake to 8,310 assemblies. 

"They were headed for dense pack and that would have made the situation even worse," said Frank von Hippel,

...

*The practice of former bureaucrats dropping into high-paid private sector jobs after retirement remains both relatively common and controversial in Japan where it is known as "amakudari," or "descent from heaven."*  (BINGO! - this is one of the major problems we have here in the US GVMT, as well as corp => gvmt agency.)

...

A classified report by the U.S. National Academy of Science prepared in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks, challenged the position of the U.S. nuclear industry that storing spent fuel in pools was as safe as storing it outside the reactor buildings in heavy casks of lead and steel that can also be reinforced with a massive concrete bunker.

About 23 U.S. reactors share the same General Electric "Mark 1" design as the Fukushima Daiichi reactors, which date back to 1971.

"When the plants were originally designed, it was thought that the spent fuel would remain on the sites only two or three months after they came out of the reactor during a refuelling outage and then the fuel would be shipped offsite for reprocessing or disposal," said Lochbaum of the Union of Concerned Scientists. 

"When those plans changed, we just filled the pools up to capacity without ever rethinking whether we should provide better safety or barriers," he said.

The Japan nuclear crisis has raised concern for U.S. officials because of the areas where safety practices overlap. By contrast, Germany, for example, has relied more heavily on storage of spent fuel in casks that can be hardened against attack or accidents with concrete.

One of problems limiting the wider use of the dry storage units is their upfront costs: each cask costs about $1 million (614,000 pounds) or more. Critics say the costs are roughly comparable with cooling pools over the long run but require initial capital spending that can be a tougher sell to management and shareholders.

Richard Meserve, who was chair of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission from 1999 to 2003 and oversaw its response to the September 11 attacks, said it is too soon to judge what has happened at Fukushima until more reviews take place. If anything, he said, he was surprised the reactors' spent fuel pools were not fuller, given the ages of the plants.

Meserve noted the steps the NRC took after the September 11 attacks such as requiring the hottest fuel to be spread among various cooling pools, and extra systems to spray water on the spent rods. "We have some safety systems in the U.S. reactors that may not be present at the Japanese reactors," he said.

Junichi Nunomura, a Tokyo-based executive with NAC, a U.S. firm that provides dry storage for nuclear fuel, said Japanese utilities had been slow to move away from storing spent fuel in pools at reactors despite the shift in international opinion away from that option in recent years.

====

For those with the attention span, this is a very long and good article.  (9 pages).  I only posted some highlights.

Also, I posted a link to the report they are talking about several pages and several  days ago.  Did anyone read it?

From post 743 on the 17th:
http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/acc...powerpoint.pdf

-t

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Cost/benefit "analysis" (and we are using that term very loosely with regard to management decisions) is often skewed by emphasis on the short term costs and profits...




> One of problems limiting the wider use of the dry storage units is their upfront costs: each cask costs about $1 million (614,000 pounds) or more. Critics say the costs are roughly comparable with cooling pools over the long run but require initial capital spending that can be a tougher sell to management and shareholders.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72G81Y20110317

WHO issues guidelines on radiation exposure

Following is a list of the main WHO recommendations:

* The main radionuclides released in a nuclear power plant accident are radioactive cesium and radioactive iodine. "Members of the public may be exposed directly to such radionuclides in the suspended air or if food and drink are contaminated by such materials," the WHO said.

* If radioactive iodine is breathed in or swallowed, it will concentrate in the thyroid gland and increase the risk of thyroid cancer. This risk can be lowered by taking potassium iodide pills which saturate the thyroid gland and help prevent the uptake of the radioactive material. "When given before or shortly after exposure, this step can reduce the risk of cancer in the long term," it said. National authorities are best placed to determine if it is warranted to take the tablets.

* If a dose of radiation exceeds a certain threshold level, then it can produce skin redness, hair loss, radiation burns and acute radiation syndrome. Due to their work, rescuers and nuclear power plant workers may be exposed to higher radiation doses than the general population.

* Exposure to radiation can increase the risk of cancer. Among the survivors in Japan of U.S. atomic bombs dropped in August 1945, the risk of leukemia increased a few years after radiation exposure, while the risks of other cancers increased more than 10 years after the exposure.

* The risk of thyroid cancer following radiation exposure is higher in children and young adults.

* If warranted, steps such as restricting the consumption of vegetables and dairy products produced in the vicinity of the power plant can also reduce exposure.

* "If you are coming indoors after radiation exposure, undress in the doorway to avoid further contamination in your home or shelter. Remove clothing and shoes and place them in a plastic bag. Seal the bag and place it in a safe location, away from living areas, children, and pets," it said.

* "Shower or bathe with warm, not scalding hot, water and soap. Notify authorities that you may have contaminated clothing and personal belongings to be handled appropriately and disposed of according to accepted national procedures," the WHO said.

* "If you are advised to stay indoors, you should find the safest room in your house or office building that has no windows or doors. Ventilation systems, such as heating and cooling systems, should be shut down," the agency said.

* Foods can be contaminated with radioactive materials as a result of a nuclear or radiological emergency. "The surface of foods like fruits and vegetables or animal feed can become radioactive by deposit of radioactive materials falling on it from the air or through rain water."

* Over time, radioactivity can also build up within food, as radionuclides are transferred through soil into crops or animals or into rivers, lakes and the sea where fish and shellfish could take up the radionuclides.

* "Radioactivity cannot contaminate food that is packaged; for example, tinned or plastic-wrapped food is protected from radioactivity as long as the food is sealed," the WHO said.

* In the early stages of an emergency, and if it is safe to do so, vegetables and animal fodder can be protected with plastic sheets or tarpaulins. "Bring livestock in from pasture; move animals into a shed or barn. Harvest any ripe crops and place under cover," it said.

* Avoid consumption of locally produced milk or vegetables, avoid slaughtering animals and avoid fishing, hunting or gathering mushrooms or other forest foods.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> * Over time, radioactivity can also build up within food, as radionuclides are transferred through soil into crops or animals or into rivers, lakes and the sea where fish and shellfish could take up the radionuclides.


There goes the seafood on that side of Japan. Wonder how much radioactive seawater has run-off into the ocean at the reactor site?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> There goes the seafood on that side of Japan. Wonder how much radioactive seawater has run-off into the ocean at the reactor site?


How many tons of water have the various "last ditch" efforts added to the mess and where is all that water now? Steam in the atmosphere, run-off, and filling the basement...

----------


## specsaregood

> There goes the seafood on that side of Japan. Wonder how much radioactive seawater has run-off into the ocean at the reactor site?


I wonder if those whaling vessels decided to go back out since they stopped early this year.

----------


## devil21

> There goes the seafood on that side of Japan. Wonder how much radioactive seawater has run-off into the ocean at the reactor site?


Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rad...27-times-maxim




> According to Kyodo, the Fukushima sea fallout is getting material enough to where the sea soon won't need a blacklight to glow in the dark:
> 
> Kyodo says radioactive caesium found in sea water 24.8 times limit
> Kyodo says radioactive Iodine found in sea water 126.7 times limit

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Ask and ye shall receive.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rad...27-times-maxim


And that will concentrate even further in the sealife. Glad I don't like seafood...

----------


## Agorism

Monster thread

----------


## raiha

> The practice of former bureaucrats dropping into high-paid private sector jobs after retirement remains both relatively common and controversial in Japan where it is known as "amakudari," or "descent from heaven." (BINGO! - this is one of the major problems we have here in the US GVMT, as well as corp => gvmt agency.)


Exactly!This what happened in the BP Gulf Spill...when managers run things rather than specialists. It is what happened in our recent coal mining tragedy. Managers! Bureaucrats. United Nations! Bureaucrats. Pestilence!


One of the best books I have read that addresses this abysmal state of affairs is: "Voltaire's Bastards" by John Ralston Saul. He works from the premise that this trait stems from Machiavelli. But how to put the clock back?

----------


## s35wf

> And that will concentrate even further in the sealife. Glad I don't like seafood...



I really miss seafood.  Havent eaten fish since bp oil spill.  Now i know i wont be eating none for atleast a decade or two.  

Being the frugal squirrel i've had to become, i do still have a couple of cans of tuna sitting on the shelf from BEFORE the oil spill.  SAD. I find myself praying not just for the people of Japan, but for our beautiful ocean, and the fish that inhabit it.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I really miss seafood.  Havent eaten fish since bp oil spill.  Now i know i wont be eating none for atleast a decade or two.


Don't forget the mercury and other toxins that accumulate...

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Don't forget the mercury and other toxins that accumulate...


speaking of toxins accumulating

http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandl...ans_nuclea.php



> As world watches Japan's nuclear plants, damage to manufacturing infrastructure poses chemical risks
> Category: Environmental Health  Occupational Health & Safety
> Posted on: March 15, 2011 5:04 PM, by The Pump Handle
> 
> By Elizabeth Grossman
> 
> After posting yesterday's story, I began to learn what a hub of chemical-intensive industry the region of Japan most directly affected by the earthquake an tsunami is. Hit with varying degrees of damage from the earthquake and tsunami are more than a dozen major petrochemical plants, most, according to a March 14 Goldman Sachs memo to investors, built in the 1970s. In addition, numerous factories that manufacture agrochemicals, silicon wafers, semiconductors, photovoltaic cells, and other high-tech items have all suffered damage as have warehouses and shipping container depots. Some of these are in coastal areas, some close to where the quake and tsunami hit hardest, near Fukushima and Sendai.
> 
> Precise details are now just emerging, but a March 14 story in EE Times, a publication that covers the electronics engineering industry, also reports damage to automotive plants as well as power outages and aftershocks that are affecting operations further from the disaster's epicenter. Among the plants affected is a Texas Instruments fabricator in Miho that suffered major damage to its "infrastructure systems for delivering chemicals, gases, water and air." A Canon plant in Utsunomiya that makes specialized lenses "suffered extensive damage," reports The New York Times.
> ...

----------


## AFPVet

> Don't forget the mercury and other toxins that accumulate...


I have always wondered why the Bible talked about 'clean' and 'unclean' meats... apparently, there is a lot of evidence as to why eating clean meat is better for you. Some fish and land animals are not able to excrete toxins as well. Damn... and I love crab

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

They're doing a great job updating the WIKIPEDIA page on FUKUSHIMA:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...lear_accidents

Good graph synopsis of radiation levels:  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ushima_map.png

http://www.rchoetzlein.com/theory/?p=187

----------


## Texan4Life

Epic graph, thx for posting

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Radioactive Xenon 133 (5.243 day half life) has now reached the entire Eastern seaboard, and soon will likely cover the entire world.

----------


## One Last Battle!

> Radioactive Xenon 133 (5.243 day half life) has now reached the entire Eastern seaboard, and soon will likely cover the entire world.


In relatively small amounts. Plus, Xe133 isn't quite so bad as some of the nastier isotopes.

----------


## s35wf

This just in. Nuclear storage Pool near Boiling Point!


http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...effort-110322/

----------


## crazyfacedjenkins

> *I have always wondered why the Bible talked about 'clean' and 'unclean' meats*... apparently, there is a lot of evidence as to why eating clean meat is better for you. Some fish and land animals are not able to excrete toxins as well. Damn... and I love crab


I think it has more to do with people living in the stone age not understanding basic chemistry and biology, they didn't even know what bacteria or any other toxin was. You'd think if an omnipotent really did exist, they would just suggest using sterile techniques and a Geiger counter...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...ard-to-control

The pools at the Fukushima complex are just that  open basins resembling swimming pools. Six are perched on a sort of mezzanine above and adjacent to reactor containment vessels. Theyre about 40 feet long by 30 feet wide by 36 feet deep, though they vary in size. 

In total they can hold about 1,300 to 1,400 metric tons of water, serving as both a shield to keep radiation from escaping and a coolant to lower the residual heat that spent fuel rods generate.

The pools contain anywhere from 400 to 700 fuel-rod assemblies, according to data compiled by the Union of Concerned Scientists. These assemblies sit on racks just above the pool floor. During normal operation, the water level in the pools is kept about 30 feet above the top of the assemblies.

But these are not normal times. Though *electric lines have now been hooked up to all six reactor units, the pumps that circulate cooling water inside reactor buildings are not yet working.* Some have been damaged and will need to be replaced. 

Temporary pumps and firetrucks are doing what they can to keep water in the pools. A powerful cement-pumping truck that will be used to shoot water, greatly increasing pumping capacity, arrived at Fukushima on Tuesday,

But Fukushima workers dont have the array of pumps they might otherwise have, ... Its possible that the workers are thus practicing triage, disconnecting pumps from fuel pools in order to rush water through reactor cores, or an adjacent pool that is in greater danger,

...

That might be a strategy that they are employing, based on the limited array of equipment they have at the moment, he said.

It is also possible that one or more of the pools is leaking. The sides of the pools have doors, which open to allow cranes to move fuel-rod assemblies from the reactor to the pool. These doors have inflatable seals that guard against leakage.

If a seal is deflated, that is fairly significant damage, said Lochbaum.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://articles.philly.com/2011-03-1...o-canyon-plant

Some critics of Japanese storage system see a worse-than-Chernobyl scenario ahead

With attention focused on tons of radioactive spent fuel that may have ignited, some experts say the Japanese will be lucky if the stricken Fukushima plant creates a disaster only the size of Chernobyl in 1986.

These spent fuel rods are now being blamed for the radioactive releases over Japan. While the reactor cores are encased in bulky containment vessels, spent fuel is separated from the environment only by the water in the pools, said former nuclear engineer David Lochbaum of the Union of Concerned Scientists in Cambridge, Mass.

That those spent fuel rods were even kept at the Japanese plant is controversial. Some used rods remain hot enough to ignite their metal coatings and release dangerous plumes of radioactive gases and dust.

Critics such as Lochbaum argue this storage system, which is widely used in the United States, poses an unnecessary hazard. Indeed, most of the 62,500 metric tons of spent fuel in the United States is stored in similar pools on site at power plants,

...

Putting rods in swimming-pool-size concrete tanks was intended only to serve as temporary storage, Lochbaum said. Before the mid-1970s, much of the country's nuclear waste was sent for reprocessing, a type of recycling that has fallen out of favor because it produces weapons-grade plutonium.

...

Several of the spent pools at Fukushima were reportedly losing water, but *the one at Reactor 4 is causing the most concern because it carries the most fuel and the hottest spent fuel - 135 tons of rods, many of them removed just in December.*

Although the fuel in these pools is considered spent, it's still so radioactive that *without cooling, it will spontaneously heat up to between 1,500 and 1,800 degrees,* enough to ignite the metal cladding that surrounds the fuel pellets. That burning releases explosive quantities of hydrogen gas, which can further damage the fuel and the storage pool.

As the rods heat up, Lochbaum said, gases laced with radioactive substances expand inside the rods. If the metal is breached, these gases are lofted into the atmosphere. If the temperature gets hot enough, fuel pellets will begin to crumble and release dust-size particles containing various radioactive by-products.

According to a briefing by the Physicians for Social Responsibility, those releases can contain strontium-90, which tends to concentrate in bones and cause bone cancer. Some of the fuel at Fukushima contains plutonium, which can cause lung cancer.

Also of grave concern is cesium-137, which has a long half-life and can persist in the environment for more than a century. Cesium-137 released in the Chernobyl disaster rendered huge swaths of the Ukraine uninhabitable.

...

Until the 1970s, spent fuel rods were partially recycled, the various components were separated out, leaving behind weapons-grade plutonium and uranium. But once the United States had enough plutonium to destroy the world 100 times over, the government prohibited reprocessing.

The Nuclear Energy Institute, an industry group, favors a combination of reprocessing, dry storage, and transfer to an ultimate resting place at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. For years, public opposition prevented any waste from being stored there, and in 2009 the Obama administration ruled against using the site. But the utilities and industry group continue to push for it.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

Crews return power to Fukushima reactors

Emergency workers at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan have *succeeded in restoring lighting to the control room of one of the plant's reactors.*

The extra light will help technicians fix equipment damaged by this month's devastating earthquake and tsunami.

Power cables have been attached to all six reactors in the hope of restarting the cooling systems.

...

There will be an attempt to restart the cooling systems and monitoring equipment once more inspections are complete.

...

The entire fishing industry in the region has already been wiped out by the tsunami.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegrea...dioactive.html

*First estimates of total radioactive cesium and iodine emissions from Fukushima plant - March 22, 2011*

(Lack of mention of plutonium is odd)

The researchers estimate that 3x10^15 becquerels of Cs-137 (which has a half-life of 30 years) were released during the first two days following the disaster on 11 March. A further 3x10^16 was released over the next two days, totalling 50% of the Cs-137 emitted in the Chernobyl accident. 4x10^17 becquerels of I-131, with a half-life of 8 days, were likely released over the same period, roughly 20% of I-131 released from Chernobyl. Wotawa says he was "surprised at the cesium levels, but less so with respect to iodine, as its highly volatile."

Jim Smith, an environmental physicist at the University of Portsmouth, UK, who was not involved in the study, says that the figures are high, and should they prove to be correct "could be of very significant concern". He adds that the modelling was only for the 137 isotope of cesium, but that he'd expect similar amounts of cesium-134 (which has a half-life of two years) to have been released.

Smith agrees with Wotawa that the fact that the prevailing winds on the first two days blowing the plume away from land was "a best case scenario". It could cause significant marine contamination, but the ocean's enormous diluting capacity would reduce any doses, he says, adding that nonetheless fishing bans might be needed near to the Fukushima plant.

Smith says a major caveat to the estimates is that such modelling is "pretty difficult". He says that he hasn't seen enough details to assess how accurate the work is, but that he himself has been surprised by the high levels of iodine that have been detected in spinach sampled at significant distances from the site. "This suggests that there was a fairly major release of iodine," he says. "This is exactly the sort of modelling we should be doing," he adds. "I'm a bit surprised that we haven't seen similar modelling results from the Japanese; they ought to have an accident response model in place."

To confirm whether the Austrian centre's estimates are accurate Smith says he would like to see the Japanese authorities publishing more radiation measurements, and in particular maps of cesium deposition in the region. "I would have expected that by now they would flying gamma ray spectrometry over the area," he says, adding that a problem is that there is not sufficient data coming out of Japan, in particular on the immediate 20-30 km zone around the plant.

----------


## kahless

Austria State Meteorological - update 3/22
http://www.zamg.ac.at/aktuell/index....-03-22GMT13:31




> ....The cloud that was shipped to the USA, a cesium / iodine had a ratio of about 1 to 30, which is similar to the circumstances at the Chernobyl accident. ............... The source terms for the four days between 3 10 15 and 3 10 16 Bq, resulting in a release up to 50% of the total source term Chernobyl accident appears possible of. These figures are an order of magnitude estimate for the first four days of the accident...............
> 
> The current radiation data from the CTBTO (last one today, data from 19.3. 2011) reveal that radiation Hawaii, Wake Iceland in the Pacific and the U.S. East Coast (Charlottesville, Virginia) is reached.  The iodine-131 levels in Hawaii were in the range of mBqm -3, on the east coast near the detection limit (μBqm-3).  A health relevance exists.


Map from yesterday.

----------


## angelatc

> Don't forget the mercury and other toxins that accumulate...


Been through his before.  Despite the never-ending propaganda from the environmental groups, there is no known instance of a human getting any form of mercury poison from eating seafood, even in the parts of the world where seafood is the primary staple of that diet. 

So we can actually forget about that.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Yotta Yotta Dee Dee... Oops, let's look at the Thermal (Infrared) shots of Fukushima reactors #1-4.

Blue is cool and orange/red/white is HOT. Hmm #1 & 3 HOT

----------


## kahless

So they are boiling and they will probably be releasing more and more radiation.  I wonder when this is on A&E or History channel years from now if they will cover the current US media blackout.

Anyone checking EPA Radnet stations?

----------


## raiha

I just saw they just had a strong quake at Fukushima...6.0. Yikes!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

FDA just announced they are banning all produce and Diary from Japan for the next 180 days. due to radiative contamination. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ion-tests.html

*U.S. Bans Japan Milk, Fruit Imports From Areas Near Leaking Nuclear Plant*




> Milk, milk products and fresh fruits and vegetables from four Japanese prefectures will be banned from entering the U.S., the Food and Drug Administration said. 
>  The milk products and produce exported from the prefectures of Fukushima, Ibaraki, Tochigi and Gunma in Japan are affected by the U.S. agency’s Import Alert. Food believed to be from these areas will be detained at the U.S. border unless the importer can verify the products came from other regions of Japan, the FDA said today in an e-mailed statement. 
>  The FDA has assured U.S. consumers it was taking action such as using radiation tests to protect against the risk of food contaminated by radiation leaks from the Fukushima Dai-Ichi power plant. The ban issued today strengthens the agency’s monitoring efforts and complements measures put in place by Japanese authorities, the FDA’s statement says. 
>  Japanese authorities yesterday barred the export of milk and vegetables from the four areas, the FDA noted in the alert. The agency said it’s working with the Japanese government to identify health risks.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I just saw they just had a strong quake at Fukushima...6.0. Yikes!


They have had 3 - 6.0+ quakes today....

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> They have had 3 - 6.0+ quakes today....


Someone interviewed on NHK television stated they're expecting a 7.0-7.4 within a week.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Radiation levels in Tokyo drinking water found to be twice the allowable limits, also, Black Smoke is spewing from reactor #3 Evacuation orders for nuke plant workers.

*http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...ed-nuke-plant/

**Radiation Levels Rise in Tokyo Tap Water as New Evacuations Ordered at Nuke Plant*


       Published March 23, 2011

                 AP
                 March 21: In this photo released by  TokyoPower .  (TEPCO), gray smoke rises from Unit 3 of the tsunami-stricken Fukushima  Dai-ichi nuclear power plant in Okumamachi, Fukushima Prefecture,  Japan.

                                TOKYO –  Radiation  levels in Tokyo tap water more than twice what is considered safe for  infants added to food safety woes Wednesday as rising smoke prompted a  new evacuation of workers trying to stabilize Japan's radiation-leaking  nuclear plant.
  Radiation has seeped into vegetables, raw  milk, the water supply and even seawater in areas surrounding the plant  since a magnitude-9 quake and killer tsunami crippled the Fukushima  Dai-ichi-power  nearly two weeks ago. Broccoli was added to a list of tainted  vegetables Wednesday, and U.S. officials announced a block on Japanese  dairy and other produce from the region.
  Tap water in downtown Tokyo measured 210  becquerels per liter of iodine-131 — more than twice the recommended  limit of 100 becquerels per liter for infants, officials from the Tokyo  Water Bureau said.
  Infants are extremely vulnerable to  radioactive iodine, which can cause thyroid cancer, experts say.  However, officials urged calm, saying drinking small amounts of tap  water was fine for babies, and that the current level did not pose an  immediate health risk to children or adults.


*"We advise against using the tap water for  drinking and for making infant formula for babies under 1 year old,"  said Shintaro Ishihara, Tokyo's governor.

*The unsettling new development affecting Japan's largest city, home to some 13 million in the city  center and 39 million residents in the great Tokyo area, came as nuclear  officials struggled to stabilize all six reactor units at the damaged  power plant to the northeast.
  In a new setback, black smoke billowed from  Unit 3, prompting a new evacuation of the complex Wednesday afternoon,  Tokyo Electric Power Co. officials said.

*"We don't know the reason" for the smoke, Hidehiko Nishiyama of the Nuclear Safety Agency said.*

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nat...,3634426.story

In addition to the evacuation due to the black smoke at #3, we see this




> The volatility of the situation was driven home early Wednesday when work on power repairs at reactor No. 2 was halted because of high levels of radiation, and the temperature at reactor No. 1 was rising to nearly 400 degrees Fahrenheit, prompting renewed efforts to inject water, Kyodo News agency reported. Two workers at No. 2 suffered unspecified injuries, the news agency reported.

----------


## S.Shorland

What is the chance of one of these reactors blowing up as a nuclear bomb and then taking the others with it? A Uranium/Plutonium bomb is just a lump of (22-32 pounds of Plutonium or 120 pounds of Uranium) to form a critical mass and then another lump explosively fired into it to get the reaction started? During a meltdown,the elements will tend to flow together because of density and form a pure mass? What is the likelihood of it? (If we have another hydrogen or flash steam explosion)? Just checked.A bomb is two subcritical masses being fired together or a subcritical mass having it's density increased by an 'explosive lens'.So what are the chances of a critical mass happening by gravity flow alone and/or an explosion to give enough kick to increase the density?

----------


## hugolp

> In addition to the evacuation due to the black smoke at #3, we see this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Two workers at No. 2 suffered *unspecified injuries*, the news agency reported.


Right. Unspecified...

----------


## TheState

> What is the chance of one of these reactors blowing up as a nuclear bomb and then taking the others with it? A Uranium/Plutonium bomb is just a lump of (22-32 pounds of Plutonium or 120 pounds of Uranium) to form a critical mass and then another lump explosively fired into it to get the reaction started? During a meltdown,the elements will tend to flow together because of density and form a pure mass? What is the likelihood of it? (If we have another hydrogen or flash steam explosion)? Just checked.A bomb is two subcritical masses being fired together or a subcritical mass having it's density increased by an 'explosive lens'.So what are the chances of a critical mass happening by gravity flow alone and/or an explosion to give enough kick to increase the density?


It's impossible. These reactors are using uranium enriched only a couple percent (which means most the uranium is U-238, not U-235). Atomic bombs made with uranium are pretty much 100% U-235.

----------


## S.Shorland

Yes,I did see that was your field of expertise in another thread.Thanks for answering.That's one silver lining at least.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

#3 caught fire AGAIN!??? - ugh!  and #1 was behaving so well before - wonder why the change...

====

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110323-33897.html

Radioactive particles to hit Europe today, German expert says

Air currents are expected to bring radioactive particles from Japan to Central Europe on Wednesday, though radiation levels will be negligible, the Federal Office for Radiation Protection (BfS) said Wednesday.

In recent days experts have measured the spread of radioactivity from the nuclear crisis at Fukushima first in California, then in Iceland, head of the BfS gauging station near Freiburg, Erich Wirth, told broadcaster MDR INFO.

“And from there it’s no longer far off from Central Europe,” he said.

Still, the radioactivity will be “very, very low,” he added. 

...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

That "It's REALLY, REALLY BAD" indicator has happened:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...1841300855641/

TOKYO, March 23 (UPI) -- *Embassies for 25 countries have closed or relocated south of Tokyo* following the epic earthquake and nuclear crisis, Japan's Foreign Ministry said Wednesday.

The work at the plant currently involves cooling down the disabled reactors' spent fuel rod pools to prevent catastrophic radiation leakages. Also, engineers need to restore pressure gauge instruments at No. 1, 2, 3 and 4 reactors.

More critically, engineers needed to bring back the cooling functions at No. 1, 2 and 3 reactors and in the pools storing spent fuel rods at No. 2, 3 and 4 units.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> TOKYO, March 23 (UPI) -- *Embassies for 25 countries have closed or relocated south of Tokyo* following the epic earthquake and nuclear crisis, Japan's Foreign Ministry said Wednesday.


When the tap water is radioactive, it's time to leave...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...e-improvements

IAEA seriously concerned about Fukushima despite improvements

IAEA senior technical advisor Graham Andrew said in Vienna that all but one reactor at the Fukushima nuclear power plant now have electricity for measuring instruments that provide valuable data.

But he added that *'the overall situation remains of serious concern.'

It has not been possible to connect electricity to the instrumentation of reactor unit 3.* 

====
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/23/130915...-nuclear-plant

Tracking The Latest At The Fukushima Nuclear Plant

UPDATED: The information below reflects developments through 12:00 p.m. EDT March 23. It will continue to be updated as new information becomes available.

Reactor No.1 	Hydrogen explosion March 12. Primary containment vessel likely not damaged. Seawater is being pumped into the reactor core.

Fuel Rods Inside Core: Fuel rods damaged and are fully or partially exposed. The containment vessel is not believed to be damaged.

Building: Severely damaged from the March 12 explosion

Spent Fuel Pool: No information. [Other report today said temp up 400 deg]

Reactor No.2 	Hydrogen explosion March 15, which damaged the containment structure and the pressure suppression chamber. This caused the pressure inside the containment vessel to fluctuate.

Seawater is being pumped into the reactor core, and it remains relatively cool, though experts believe radiation has leaked out.

Fuel Rods Inside Core: Fuel rods damaged and still partially exposed. Damage suspected to the containment vessel, though the severity remains unknown.

Building: Slightly damaged

Spent Fuel Pool: No information

Reactor No.3 	Hydrogen explosion March 14. Smoke, followed by release of radiation March 16. On March 21 and 23, smoke was seen billowing from the reactor.

Fuel Rods Inside Core: Damaged and partially exposed.

Building: Severely damaged

Spent Fuel Pool: Damage to the fuel rods is suspected and water levels are low. Japanese helicopters attempted to drop seawater on the top of Reactor No. 3 on March 16 and 17 to cool the spent fuel pool. Emergency fire vehicles have sprayed water on the spent fuel pool daily since March 17.

Reactor No.4 	Hydrogen explosion March 15, then a fire which heavily damaged the building. The Japanese Self Defense Forces began spraying water on March 20 and continued through March 21.

Fuel Rods Inside Core: No fuel rods

Building: A blast on March 15 blew an 86 square-foot hole into the wall of an outer building that houses the reactor. The roof is also severely damaged.

Spent Fuel Pool: Damage to the fuel rods is suspected and water levels are low. Fire trucks are spraying water on the pool.

Reactor No.5 	On March 21, workers switched the reactor to an external power source from the emergency diesel generators. Water is being pumped into the core and the spent fuel pools.

Fuel Rods Inside Core: Not damaged; several feet of water covers the tops of the fuel rods

Building: Not damaged

Spent Fuel Pool: Temperature stable.

Reactor No.6 	Unit 6 is running on its own emergency diesel generator. On March 21, the reactor was connected to an external power source.

Fuel Rods Inside Core: Not damaged; nearly 6 feet of water cover the tops of the fuel rods.

Building: Not damaged

Spent Fuel Pool: Temperature stable.

additional info:  March 15th *blast damaged the suppression pool on #2 causing a crack or leak and a loss of pressure.*  The suppression pool is used to absorb excess heat or steam in an emergency from the reactor.  They are located at the base of the reactor.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...om-Fukushima-I

Meanwhile, on Tuesday the US Department of Energy for the first time released detailed radiation readings taken by US ground and airborne detectors deployed in Japan.

Unlike the periodic measurements taken at the Fukushima I plant gates, the new US readings give a sense of how radiation has settled over the area surrounding the Fukushima I complex.

The good news is that the readings are relatively low  all are less than 300 mSv per hour  according to the Energy Department. The worrisome news is that the data shows a plume of somewhat elevated radiation levels, higher than 125 mSv per hour, extending up to 25 miles northwest into Japans interior, instead of east or southeast towards the ocean.


http://www.slideshare.net/energy/rad...-march-22-2011

----------


## kahless

> http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...om-Fukushima-I
> 
> Meanwhile, on Tuesday the US Department of Energy for the first time released detailed radiation readings taken by US ground and airborne detectors deployed in Japan.
> 
> Unlike the periodic measurements taken at the Fukushima I plant gates, the new US readings give a sense of how radiation has settled over the area surrounding the Fukushima I complex.
> 
> The good news is that the readings are *relatively low – all are less than 300 mSv per hour* – according to the Energy Department. The worrisome news is that the data shows a plume of somewhat elevated radiation levels, *higher than 125 mSv per hour*, extending up to 25 miles northwest into Japan’s interior, instead of east or southeast towards the ocean.
> 
> 
> http://www.slideshare.net/energy/rad...-march-22-2011


"relatively low", I smell bull$#@! unless I am reading this wrong. A one time quick CAT scan is 10 mSv.  So if I am reading this correctly they are getting exposed to like 30 CAT scans per hour or 720 CAT scans in a day.

----------


## TheState

> "relatively low", I smell bull$#@! unless I am reading this wrong. A one time quick CAT scan is 10 mSv.  So if I am reading this correctly they are getting exposed to like 30 CAT scans per hour or 720 CAT scans in a day.


I agree, so I looked at the presentation. The highest reading was *0.03 REM*, which is 300 microSv, not 300mSv. Like you said, a CT scan can be between 1 and 10 rem, so 0.03 rem is not life threatening (although still high, background is probably 0.001 rem/day). It's more like an x-ray per hour.

Edit: Sorry wrote a number wrong.

----------


## One Last Battle!

Out of curiosity, why can't they spray the reactors with liquid nitrogen instead of water? Would certainly be much colder. 

Also, ignoring the above, why not go for the option of filling the reactors with lead/concrete earlier? The water option was already going to destroy them, so why not take the next step?

----------


## KramerDSP

> Out of curiosity, why can't they spray the reactors with liquid nitrogen instead of water? Would certainly be much colder. 
> 
> Also, ignoring the above, why not go for the option of filling the reactors with lead/concrete earlier? The water option was already going to destroy them, so why not take the next step?


The State replied to this question earlier. He basically said the same thing would happen (liquid nitrogen) as would happen if you heated up oil in a frying pan and then dropped an ice cube onto the oil. 

Also, from what I understand, the lead/concrete is not an option until the fuel has successfully cooled down enough. Otherwise, you're just creating more pressure or something like that.

----------


## TheState

> Out of curiosity, why can't they spray the reactors with liquid nitrogen instead of water? Would certainly be much colder.


The big problem with that (other than getting a lot of liquid nitrogen) is that it would make the vessel and rods extremely brittle. That's actually a big concern in reactor accidents. Lets say you lose cooling and the reactor heats up, then you have to dump in sea water or some other water that's at room temp. The sudden change in temperature can cause the fuel rods, and the vessel itself, to become so brittle that they can break.  




> Also, ignoring the above, why not go for the option of filling the reactors with lead/concrete earlier? The water option was already going to destroy them, so why not take the next step?


I think the problem there would be that those wouldn't provide any cooling. So you'd fill it with cement, but the rods would still be getting warmer inside and at some point would probably break the concrete. Also, it makes it impossible to really ever remove the fuel. Cooling with water, there is still hope that one day they can retrieve the materials and dispose of them properly. Cementing the core would lead to more of a Chernobyl site where they'd have to take care of that location forever.

----------


## TheState

> The State replied to this question earlier. He basically said the same thing would happen (liquid nitrogen) as would happen if you heated up oil in a frying pan and then dropped an ice cube onto the oil. 
> 
> Also, from what I understand, the lead/concrete is not an option until the fuel has successfully cooled down enough. Otherwise, you're just creating more pressure or something like that.


Exactly, much more concise than my explanation

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Just pondering but maybe a cement could be made with something like what's in instant ice packs as a major ingredient along w/ lots of boron.

Likewise, a phase change material that would absorb heat.  maybe with metal rods to radiate heat out.  Those are usually jells.

Or a fero-cement mixture that could use the pressurized gas as an ingredient.  

giant refrigeration coils?

Then again, maybe not...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Physico-chemical characteristics of chemically activated cement containing boron 

Abstract

The use of colemanite ore waste (CW) containing boron as a cement replacement material increases the long-term strength of the concrete. Despite this benefit, the use of CW is limited due to the low-early strength of the CW concrete. The study reported below intended to eliminate this problem. The experimental part comprises two stages: in the first stage the possibility of using CW instead of natural gypsum has been investigated through several tests. In the second stage, a number of chemical activators, namely, sulphonated melamine formaldehyde (SMF) condensates, sulphonated naphthalene formaldehyde (SNF) condensates, Na2SO4, and calcium chloride were used. The results showed that replacement of natural gypsum by CW results in an acceptable initial and final setting time of cement and increases the compressive strength of the mortar at long term. The addition of chemical activators into the system accelerated pozzolanic reaction and considerably increased early strength of the mortars. The results also indicate that chemical activators not only alter the rate of cement paste hydration, but the microstructure of mortar as well.

Keywords: Activators; Strength; Microstructure; Retardation; Colemanite ore waste
Article Outline

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7&searchtype=a

well, maybe I am onto something...

----------


## KramerDSP

> Exactly, much more concise than my explanation


Weird, because I usually have Diarreah of the fingers! 

Just saw this. What do you make of it?

Neutron Beams Observed 13 Times At Fukushima Reactor:




> Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after it was crippled by the massive March 11 quake-tsunami disaster.
> 
> TEPCO, the operator of the nuclear plant, said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 kilometers southwest of the plant's No. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour and that this is not a dangerous level.
> 
> The utility firm said it will measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam, as well.
> 
> In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.
> 
> In the latest case at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, such a criticality accident has yet to happen.
> ...


ETA - When I see "neutron beams", I think of the shiny blue cloud that the Chernobyl residents saw while standing on top of the tallest apartment building there.

----------


## TheState

> Weird, because I usually have Diarreah of the fingers! 
> 
> Just saw this. What do you make of it?
> 
> Neutron Beams Observed 13 Times At Fukushima Reactor:
> 
> 
> ETA - When I see "neutron beams", I think of the shiny blue cloud that the Chernobyl residents saw while standing on top of the tallest apartment building there.


Hm, that's odd. I've never heard of a neutron beam before. Our research reactor at OSU does have a neutron beam port, which is a tube that goes into the reactor that lets you put experiments and stuff in. When the cover is open, a "beam" of neutrons is being released, so you can't stand right in front of it.

Maybe that's what they mean. Maybe it is evidence of a breach in a vessel or the fuel pool which is having a similar effect. There might be some unobstructed path to the fuel, so the neutrons escaping have a clear path out, but only through a small opening. So you get a "beam" of neutrons escaping in one direction.

That's my best guess anyway hah.

----------


## Carson

> Hm, that's odd. I've never heard of a neutron beam before. Our research reactor at OSU does have a neutron beam port, which is a tube that goes into the reactor that lets you put experiments and stuff in. When the cover is open, a "beam" of neutrons is being released, so you can't stand right in front of it.
> 
> *Maybe that's what they mean. Maybe it is evidence of a breach in a vessel or the fuel pool which is having a similar effect. There might be some unobstructed path to the fuel, so the neutrons escaping have a clear path out, but only through a small opening. So you get a "beam" of neutrons escaping in one direction.
> *
> That's my best guess anyway hah.


That's what I was thinking. Reactor 3 sure look like more than just a hydrogen bubble in the building exploding.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Really, really horrid news today...

FOX just reported the neutron beam has bean coming from #1 and 2  and is the result of radioactive material falling off fuel rods.

The storage pools are also heating up and approaching a failure temperature.

Then this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/wo...24nuclear.html

*New Problems Arise at Japanese Nuclear Plant*

The Japanese electricians who bravely strung wires this week to all six reactor buildings at a stricken nuclear power plant succeeded despite waves of heat and blasts of radioactive steam. 

The restoration of electricity at the plant, the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station, stirred hopes that the crisis was ebbing, but nuclear engineers say *some of the most difficult and dangerous tasks are still ahead — and time is not necessarily on the side of the repair teams.

The tasks include manually draining hundreds of gallons of radioactive water and venting radioactive gas from the pumps and piping of the emergency cooling systems, which are located diagonally underneath the overheated reactor vessels.* The health warning that infants should not drink tap water — even in Tokyo, far from the stricken plant — raised alarms about extensive contamination. 

*“We’ve got at least 10 days to two weeks of potential drama before you can declare the accident over,”* said Michael Friedlander, who worked as a nuclear plant operator in the United States for 13 years. 

Western nuclear engineers have become increasingly concerned about *a separate problem that may be putting pressure on the Japanese technicians to work faster: salt buildup inside the reactors, which could cause them to heat up more and, in the worst case, cause the uranium to melt, releasing a range of radioactive material.*

Richard T. Lahey Jr., who was General Electric’s chief of safety research for boiling-water reactors when the company installed them at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, said that as seawater was pumped into the reactors and boiled away, it left more and more salt behind.

*He estimates that 57,000 pounds of salt have accumulated in Reactor No. 1 and 99,000 pounds apiece in Reactors No. 2 and 3, which are larger.* 

The big question is how much of that salt is still mixed with water and how much now forms a crust on the reactors’ uranium fuel rods. Chemical crusts on uranium fuel rods have been a problem for years at nuclear plants.

*Crusts insulate the rods from the water and allow them to heat up. If the crusts are thick enough, they can block water from circulating between the fuel rods at all. As the rods heat up, their zirconium cladding can ignite, which may cause the uranium inside to melt and release radioactive material.* 

...

If the pump is turned on without venting the air and draining the water, the water from the pump would hit the alternating pockets with enough force to blow holes in the piping. Venting the air and draining the water requires a technician to reach a dozen valves, sometimes using a ladder. The water is removed through a hose to the nearest drain, usually in the floor, that leads to machinery designed to remove radiation from the water.

The process takes a full 12 hours in a reactor that is operating normally

...

The cooling system at Reactor No. 5, which was shut down at the time of the earthquake and has shown few problems since, also abruptly stopped working on Wednesday afternoon, said Hiro Hasegawa, a spokesman for Tokyo Electric.

“When we switched from the temporary pump, it automatically switched off,” he said. “We’ll try again with a new pump in the morning.”

----------


## KramerDSP

The news just keeps getting worse. Hopefully this is the worst of it, and it becomes contained.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Steam/White Smoke rising from all 4 reactor at Fukushima. First time all 4 reactors overheating (#4 Spent Fuel Pool). 
The reactor official even stated this may lead to an accident.  status @ 0600L Thursday March 24th.

The earthquake caused what now has been measured at a 14 meter(46 foot high wave) high tsunami that hit the Fukushima facility. 

Shortage of bottled-water in Tokyo. (most wards) and 5 prefectures around Fukushima

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> The news just keeps getting worse. Hopefully this is the worst of it, and it becomes contained.


Agree - but think they are hollow hopes - I expect it to get worse...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Steam/White Smoke rising from all 4 reactor at Fukushima. First time all 4 reactors overheating (#4 Spent Fuel Pool). 
> The reactor official even stated this may lead to an accident.  status @ 0600L Thursday March 24th.
> 
> The earthquake caused what now has been measured at a 14 meter(46 foot high wave) high tsunami that hit the Fukushima facility. 
> 
> Shortage of bottled-water in Tokyo. (most wards) and 5 prefectures around Fukushima


#3 caught fire - yet AGAIN today w/ black smoke.... 

The grey smoke makes me wonder....  probably a mix....

----------


## Texan4Life

> Our research reactor at OSU does have a neutron beam port, which is a tube that goes into the reactor that lets you put experiments and stuff in.


Cool... off the record what kind of stuff have yall stuck in there? popcorn, maybe some easymac??

----------


## raiha

Does anyone have any insight into the different colour of smoke/steam?  So far we are told there is white, grey and now we have black smoke coming out no 3. I don't suppose any of them are any good.

Zero Hedge keeps writing scary articles about what they believe to be happening.http://www.zerohedge.com/article/run...ater-chernobyl




> Even as the spin continues by both the media and nuclear energy advocates that the dangers from Fukushima are overblown, calculations done behind the scenes indicate that Fukushima and Chernobyl are actually very comparable in terms of radioactive particulate release, and in some cases, such as Cesium 137, Fukushima is already runrating as a worse catastrophe than Chernobyl. From Reuters: "*The release of two types of radioactive particles in the first 3-4 days of Japan's nuclear crisis is estimated to have reached 20-50 percent of the amounts from Chernobyl in 10 days, an Austrian expert said on Wednesday.* Based on measurements made at monitoring stations in Japan and the United States, Wotawa said the iodine released from Fukushima in the first three-four days was about 20 percent of that released from Chernobyl during a ten-day period. *For Caesium-137, the figure could amount to some 50 percent*." In other words, run rating the release of Cesium for a 10 day period, leaked radioactive Cesium is now about 120-150% of what it was during the full blow reactor explosion experiencing during Chernobyl. But yes, aside from the facts, watering the reactor that are certainly melting down (if haven't done so already) should surely have great benefits.

----------


## armstrong

bump

----------


## TheState

> Cool... off the record what kind of stuff have yall stuck in there? popcorn, maybe some easymac??


Hah Unfortunately, I've never worked there, just had to do the usual experiments for classes (sticking various metals in there, measuring half-lives, comparing detectors, nothing fun).

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://af.reuters.com/article/energy...72N1H120110324




> TOKYO, March 24 (Reuters) - Workers battled to staunch radiation leaks ... but some experts saw signs the crisis was being brought under control.
> 
> ...
> 
> "The situation is stable but it's still critical. We have some small items of positive news," said Klas Idehaag, reactor inspector at the Swedish Radiation Safety Authority.
> 
> Temperatures in reactor 3, for instance, had fallen to 185 degrees Celsius (365.00F) from 225C a day earlier and electricity was working more widely at the plant, he said.
> 
> *MORE CHALLENGING THAN EXPECTED*
> ...

----------


## huckans

Japanese Cartoon for kids about the nuclear fallout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN...layer_embedded

----------


## acptulsa

railha, white is pure steam.  Coming out of there, it'll be radioactive to some degree or another, but is basically good news.  Like when it comes out from other your hood (or do you say 'bonnet')--you might be overheating, but you aren't burning up, and your engine will cool down eventually.

Anything other than snow white indicates some byproduct of burning.  White can, too, if it's hydrogen burning (or blowing up) but all the hydrogen is long since released and unencumbered.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Western nuclear engineers have become increasingly concerned about *a separate problem that may be putting pressure on the Japanese technicians to work faster: salt buildup inside the reactors, which could cause them to heat up more and, in the worst case, cause the uranium to melt, releasing a range of radioactive material.*
> 
> Richard T. Lahey Jr., who was General Electric’s chief of safety research for boiling-water reactors when the company installed them at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, said that as seawater was pumped into the reactors and boiled away, it left more and more salt behind.
> 
> *He estimates that 57,000 pounds of salt have accumulated in Reactor No. 1 and 99,000 pounds apiece in Reactors No. 2 and 3, which are larger.* 
> 
> The big question is how much of that salt is still mixed with water and how much now forms a crust on the reactors’ uranium fuel rods. Chemical crusts on uranium fuel rods have been a problem for years at nuclear plants.
> 
> *Crusts insulate the rods from the water and allow them to heat up. If the crusts are thick enough, they can block water from circulating between the fuel rods at all. As the rods heat up, their zirconium cladding can ignite, which may cause the uranium inside to melt and release radioactive material.*


I had been wondering what effect the seawater would have (as opposed to pure water). What effect would that have on the reactions?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=13208745

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...rkers-hospital

Japanese officials are claiming water in Tokyo is safe for all now.  it's supposed to be at arround 78 now, legal limit for 1yo and under is 100 and adults is 300.  They said it spiked in the water supply because of the rain.  Does not sound like the population is buying it.

2 more workers went to the hospital today because their feet got wet in #3 with an exposure of 170-180 mSv.

"More than 20 workers have been injured at the Fukushima plant, 150 miles north of Tokyo, since it was badly damaged in the 11 March earthquake and tsunami. They include 11 who were hurt when the No 3 reactor building exploded."

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...118563704.html

"The two are said to be suffering from beta ray burns.

Tokyo Electric Power Company Vice President Sakae Muto says the men were underground laying cable critical to restarting the cooling system for the reactor, which contains a mix of plutonium and uranium fuel.

All three workers were exposed to between 170 and 180 milliseverts of radiation, said Muto. That is less than the maximum of 250 millisieverts for workers at the plant that has been set by the government. About 25 people injured at the nuclear plant since it began leaking radiation following damage on March 11 from the quake-triggered tsunami."

...

New worries emerge

There is also fresh concern about the damaged Number 1 reactor, where pressure inside the reactor again increased. Crews are trying to maintain a delicate balance between spraying water on the radioactive fuel, which causes a rise in pressure, and reducing the water flow which could see temperatures increase to a dangerously high level.

...

Japan's government says the detection of radioactive neutron beams 15 times near the plant following the destruction by the tsunami were natural events and there is no evidence any uranium and plutonium leaked from reactors.

A government spokesman in Tokyo, as well as Symons at the laboratory in Berkeley, both reject assertions by some overseas in the industry that a critical nuclear reaction from a reactor or spent fuel rods likely emitted the neutron beams.

...

[radiation at safe levels detected in 2 more cities and bottled water being distributed in tokyo for infants.  Japan considering importing bottled water from other countries]

no other real news on advances or setbacks from today - at least yet.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I had been wondering what effect the seawater would have (as opposed to pure water). What effect would that have on the reactions?


read the last para you quoted - catch fire, melt own.... bad stuff like that - lotta radiation released.

if it's too thick they will have to manually chip it off.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> read the last para you quoted - catch fire, melt own.... bad stuff like that - lotta radiation released.
> 
> if it's too thick they will have to manually chip it off.


I am also thinking about the reactions themselves. I believe that water is required to make the actual nuclear reactions occur between the fuel rods. What happens when pure water is replaced by seawater?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I am also thinking about the reactions themselves. I believe that water is required to make the actual nuclear reactions occur between the fuel rods. What happens when pure water is replaced by seawater?


I'm failrly positive you are mistaken.  Water is required to prevent the reactions from running away.  Dry spent fuel pool or reactor = fire and meltdown.

the diff with seawater is that as it boils off (cooling the rods) it dumps salt that can form a blanket arround the rods, insulating them, preventing cooling and doing the exact opposite.

thats why they want to get fresh water pumping through there ASAP!

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I'm failrly positive you are mistaken.  Water is required to prevent the reactions from running away.  Dry spent fuel pool or reactor = fire and meltdown.


From earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that the water serves two purposes: to cool and also as a catalyst for nuclear reactions.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest status of FUKUSHIMA reactors: http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...300976122P.pdf

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> From earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that the water serves two purposes: to cool and also as a catalyst for nuclear reactions.


catalyst how?  do you know what post?

catalysts enable reactions (chemically).  water should shield/block radiation.  Doesn't make sense to me.

----------


## TheState

> catalyst how?  do you know what post?
> 
> catalysts enable reactions (chemically).  water should shield/block radiation.  Doesn't make sense to me.


When neutrons are produced from fission, they are at very high energy (called "fast" neutrons). U-235, the fuel in these reactors, can only fission with neutrons of low energy (called "slow" neutrons). The water acts as a moderator because the neutrons collide with the water molecules and lose energy. 

However, in this case, since the reactor has been shut down and control rods are inserted, the heat being produced is not from fission, but decay heat. So it's the same level of energy whether the water is there or not. The water now is just providing cooling.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> When neutrons are produced from fission, they are at very high energy (called "fast" neutrons). U-235, the fuel in these reactors, can only fission with neutrons of low energy (called "slow" neutrons). The water acts as a moderator because the neutrons collide with the water molecules and lose energy. 
> 
> However, in this case, since the reactor has been shut down and control rods are inserted, the heat being produced is not from fission, but decay heat. So it's the same level of energy whether the water is there or not. The water now is just providing cooling.


So are you saying the water provides "slow" neutrons?  I'm not really following whats going on here.

maybe you could define the difference between fission and decay.  I kind of thought a meltdown caused fuel to come together and out of control fission was the result.  Confused.

thanks,

-t

----------


## TheState

> So are you saying the water provides "slow" neutrons?  I'm not really following whats going on here.
> 
> maybe you could define the difference between fission and decay.  I kind of thought a meltdown caused fuel to come together and out of control fission was the result.  Confused.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -t


Sure thing!

*Fission* - When a neutron hits a large atom, like uranium-235, causing it to split into fission fragments (2 new elements) and release more neutrons (on average, 2-3 neutrons are released per fission of U-235). This also creates energy since mass is changed directly into energy (Einstein's famous equation, energy=mass*speed of light^2, e=mc^2).  

*Decay* - When an unstable atom (usually a fission fragment of the original fission) will change into a more stable isotope or element. This is usually done by the atom releasing energy in the form of radiation (alpha, beta, gamma, or neutron).

So let's say a "slow" neutron hits a U-235 atom causing a fission, so 2 "fast" neutrons are released. These neutrons have energy too high to cause a fission in U-235. However, when they collide with the water molecules, they'll lose energy (imagine billiard balls colliding). Now that they've lost energy, they are "slow" neutrons and can cause more fissions in the U-235. 

Without the water, these type of reactors can't sustain a reaction. It's a safety mechanism in case the water were to boil away. 

A "*meltdown*" really doesn't have anything to do with the fission reaction, it just means that the fuel rods have begun to melt. This can happen several ways. 

In the Japanese scenario, the reactors shut down when the earthquake hit. So the fissions have stopped (essentially). However, all those fission fragments created previously are still decaying and producing energy. The graph below shows how energy drops off after the reactor is shutdown (in terms of normal operation being 100% power).



So right now, power in these reactors is around 0.1% of full power, so less than a megawatt. This doesn't seem like much power, but without water cooling the rods, they can heat up to the point that they melt. 

*This will not cause fissions*, it will just mean the fuels rods are melting and some of the radioactive stuff inside, like the noble gases, might escape. 

I hope that helps! Let me know if there's anything that needs clarified or if you have any other questions.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

OK, clearer and makes more sense - except for one thing.  It soulds like a chicken and egg situation.  Where do you get the original "slow" neutron to start the whole reaction?

thanks!

----------


## TheState

> OK, clearer and makes more sense - except for one thing.  It soulds like a chicken and egg situation.  Where do you get the original "slow" neutron to start the whole reaction?
> 
> thanks!


It's done differently for different reactors. Like for our small research reactor, we have a small piece of plutonium that is always giving off neutrons. So to start the reactor, we raise it into the core just long enough to start the reaction.

In big power reactors, the uranium itself is unstable enough that occasionally there will be a spontaneous decay that releases a neutron, or a fission from neutrons that are in the environment (there are always some around). Without the control rods in, the chain reaction will spread.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Interesting - thanks...

Sounds like you might be in a world of hurt if you were on a spaceship and needed to find a new "sparkplug"

----------


## raiha

> railha, white is pure steam.  Coming out of there, it'll be radioactive to some degree or another, but is basically good news.  Like when it comes out from other your hood (or do you say 'bonnet')--you might be overheating, but you aren't burning up, and your engine will cool down eventually.
> 
> Anything other than snow white indicates some byproduct of burning.  White can, too, if it's hydrogen burning (or blowing up) but all the hydrogen is long since released and unencumbered.


Yes, bonnet. Strange...I would never have called steam white. I will ponder on it. It was all beginning to sound rather papal. 
This thread is going to get very long. I heard on the news this could go on for 10 years.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

10 years? - probably before they can get back in there and really clean things up.

They are saying they hope to get it under control within 10 days to a week.  Considering how long it took them to hook up power, and their goal kept getting pushed back - I think that is optimistic.

We might end up with a 2,000 post thread, though!

-t

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> catalyst how?  do you know what post?
> 
> catalysts enable reactions (chemically).  water should shield/block radiation.  Doesn't make sense to me.


I used the term "catalyst" very loosely, as I couldn't remember the proper term: "moderator"...

(And I figured TheState would come around with a proper explanation.) 




> When neutrons are produced from fission, they are at very high energy (called "fast" neutrons). U-235, the fuel in these reactors, can only fission with neutrons of low energy (called "slow" neutrons). The water acts as a moderator because the neutrons collide with the water molecules and lose energy.

----------


## Carson

*Wait for it... wait for it... wait for it... holy shiat*

Saw this on Fark.

I had no idea the number of earthquakes they have been having. This link shows a quake map for the 758 they have had in the last few days.

Link to JapanQuakeMap.com;

http://www.japanquakemap.com/

Link to fark comments;

http://www.fark.com/comments/6057735...-it-holy-shiat


P.S. While your on the map page you can stop the video play and then hover over the earthquakes on the list and it will display them.

Also a button is up there to speed it up. 


The way the earthquakes are focused looks just like the little video's I have of the earthquakes in Mt Saint Helens. Except on a much larger scale.


Jan 19 2011 to Jan 29 2011

----------


## acptulsa

> Yes, bonnet.


Ah.  Well, if steam is coming out of your hood, then, someone is having a road rage moment. 




> I will ponder on it. It was all beginning to sound rather papal


Thank you very much.  That is the first useful piece of humor I've seen come out of this ugliness.

----------


## KramerDSP

Here's the latest...




> W7VOA Steve Herman 
> Top #Japan gov't spokesman now essentially saying perhaps it's best if those in the 20km-30km zone from #Fukushima-1 voluntarily evacuate.





> W7VOA Steve Herman 
> Yomiuri: TEPCO detected zirconium 95 at 0.23 Bq 330m south of Fukushima-1 drainage outlet on Wednesday.





> W7VOA Steve Herman 
> This would indicate nuclear fuel cladding melting from rods in spent fuel pool.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> *Wait for it... wait for it... wait for it... holy shiat*
> ...


map is wild, thanks




> Here's the latest...


damn...

more




> UPDATE>>>The water that three men were recently exposed to while working at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant had 10,000 times the amount of typical radiation for that location, an official with Japan's nuclear and industrial safety agency said Friday. The high reading indicates that the fuel inside the No. 3 reactor "is damaged," Hidehiko Nitsayama said. At least two of the workers were hospitalized after stepping in the water Thursday while laying cable in the turbine building of the No. 3 reactor. Nitsayama explained that the water in this place is typically boiled and has very low levels of radiation. He said that government officials have contacted authorities with the Tokyo Electric Power Company, which manages the plant, to urge the company to "improve its radiation management measures."

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## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wF0n2o3TkE

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## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.necn.com/03/25/11/Potenti...ng_nation.html




> Mar 25, 2011 5:21am (NECN) - There has been a potentially dramatic escalation in Japan's nuclear crisis. Japanese officials say that the core at one of the country's damaged nuclear reactors may have been breached. That does not mean a meltdown has occurred at the Fukushima plant, but it does mean that more radiation could be released. Officials say the damage occurred in Reactor 3 and was limited.

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## HOLLYWOOD

Once the leaders start alerting the people... it's far worse than what they were leading the people on for the previous week.




> *Excessive radioactivity found in Tokyo vegetable*
>  Japan's health ministry says radiation above the legal limit has been  detected in a vegetable grown in Tokyo. This is the first time that  radioactive cesium exceeding the legal limit has been found in a Tokyo  vegetable.
>  The ministry says the radioactive cesium was detected on Thursday in a  leafy vegetable taken from a field in Edogawa ward on Wednesday. The  vegetable is called Komatsuna, or Japanese mustard spinach. The  radioactive level was 890 becquerels per kilogram, exceeding the legal  limit of 500.
>  The vegetable was grown at a research center, and is not being sold on the market.
>  The health ministry says that level of radioactivity would not have  an adverse effect on health, even if the vegetable was eaten.
> 
> Radioactive yellow rain that fell in Tokyo and surrounding areas last   night  caused panic amongst Japanese citizens and prompted a flood of   phone calls to  Japan’s Meteorological Agency this morning, with people   concerned that they were  being fed the same lies as victims of   Chernobyl, who were told that yellow rain  which fell over Russia and   surrounding countries after the 1986 disaster was  merely pollen, the   same explanation now being offered by Japanese authorities.





> http://www.necn.com/03/25/11/Potenti...ng_nation.html

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## tangent4ronpaul

> Radioactive yellow rain that fell in Tokyo and surrounding areas last night caused panic amongst Japanese citizens and prompted a flood of phone calls to Japan’s Meteorological Agency this morning, with people concerned that they were being fed the same lies as victims of Chernobyl, who were told that yellow rain which fell over Russia and surrounding countries after the 1986 disaster was merely pollen, the same explanation now being offered by Japanese authorities.


Yeah - it's a LOT worse than they are telling us.

Makes me wonder about the real reading of fallout here in the US...

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## s35wf

I just came across this site thru my worldwideweb travels.  

If you have the means & the compassion to help displaced families/people from Japan visit this link:

http://japan.sparkrelief.org/

There are some good things happening out there thru all this tragedy/doom/gloom.
Makes think humanity is not a lost cause after all.

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## raiha

What about those abandoned people in nuclear No man's land? Are they ever going to get out of there?

But wait, radiation is good for you!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ann-coult...-good-for-you/

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## tangent4ronpaul

Reactor containment breach confirmed.  Radiation levels at 10,000 times normal.  Workers evacuated again and all work halted.  Don't know which reactor yet.

-t

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## MozoVote

There were articles on it earlier today ... Reactor 3. The MOX.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> There were articles on it earlier today ... Reactor 3. The MOX.



OH JOY! - the worst one....

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## Kotin

doesn't plutonium have a half-life of around 10,000 years??!!

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## raiha

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23764 Apocalypse?

The writer is freaking out.... he worked for GE and was pro-nuclear power until he started realizing more about cover-ups etc. 




> '...Amongst the most troubling and most deeply underplayed questions of the entire crisis concern the Fukushima Spent Fuel Pools. These basin are packed with tons of irradiated fuel rods that need to be cooled. One of the major postulated accident scenarios involves a Loss-of-Coolant Accident (LOCA) to the reactor core, but a LOCA event can also occur with a spent fuel pool. It has. Fires and explosions in Japan. The Spent Fuel Pools at the six Fukushima reactors are NOT inside primary containment. They are exposed. Burning. About to burn.
> 
> Reactors No. 4, 5, and 6 at Fukushima were shutdown when the earthquake struck. After the water drained and the spent fuel became exposed, the pool at reactor No. 4 caught fire, and continues to burn, as of Thursday March 17, releasing massive amounts of radiation into the environment. The status of the other six spent fuel pools at Fukushima is unknown. A courageous U.S. journalist Rachel Maddow explored the spent fuel pool issue with a former government official. The most important, critical point made by Princeton professor Frank Von Hippel occurs at minute 14:19 -- where Rachel Maddow talks over him: these are LONG-LIFE RADIONUCLIDES being emitted from the spent fuel pool(s). Isotopes of cesium: Cs-137 has a half-life of 30 years and will be around and hot for decades. 
> 
> How much disaster are we talking about? The atomic bomb that exploded at Hiroshima created about 2000 curies of radioactivity. The spent fuel pools at Vermont Yankee Nuclear Plant (U.S.) are said to hold about 75 million curies. There are six spent fuel pools at Fukushima, but the numbers of tons of fuel rods in each have not been made public. 
> 
> The Nuclear Information and Resource Service (NIRS) did the math: If Fukushima's Reactor No. 4 operated for 35 years and produced 30 tons of irradiated fuel per year and each ton is equivalent to 24 times the amount of cesium-137 produced by the Hiroshima bomb, then each fuel pool could contain on the order of 24,000 times the amount of cesium-137 produced by the Hiroshima bomb, if all the produced irradiated fuel remains in the fuel pool.
> 
> Nuclear stupidity No. 1: the Fukushima reactor buildings are square (not circular) and had to absorb the force of the tsunami wave straight on. Stupidity No. 2: six reactors clustered too close together. Stupidity No. 3: no shoreline protection against a tsunami. Stupidity No. 4: reactors sited on earthquake faults. Stupidity No. 5: assumptions and calculations proving that the reactor, prior to its construction, could withstand anything that nature threw at it. Stupidity No. 6: it didn't begin in Japan: the industry, with all its corruptions, false assumptions and technological hubris, was born in secrecy in the United States of America. 
> ...

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## osan

> doesn't plutonium have a half-life of around 10,000 years??!!


  Depends on the isotope.  238 has a half life of something like 85 years, which is plenty long enough for the purposes of disaster.  IIRC, 239 is the real $#@!er and has a half life of over 20K years, or something like that.  One isotope half lives at something like 100 million years.  Sorry, all from 30 year old memory.

In any event, 239 is the real problem child as it is fissile and lasts a long time.

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## raiha

> *Neutron beam observed 13 times at crippled Fukushima nuke plant*TOKYO, March 23, Kyodo
> 
> Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after it was crippled by the massive March 11 quake-tsunami disaster.
> 
> TEPCO, the operator of the nuclear plant, said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 kilometers southwest of the plant's No. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour and that this is not a dangerous level.
> 
> The utility firm said it will measure uranium and plutonium, which could emit a neutron beam, as well.
> 
> In the 1999 criticality accident at a nuclear fuel processing plant run by JCO Co. in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, uranium broke apart continually in nuclear fission, causing a massive amount of neutron beams.
> ...


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80539.html

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## HOLLYWOOD

Still nothing from the US officials on the radiation contamination levels, though many US experts working on this in Japan...

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_i...301056350P.pdf

Here's the latest status of the* "FUKUSHIMA 4*" : <=== Trademarked 

High Dose rate of over *170+ m/Sev was @* *TURBINE BUILDING of #3*

High Dose rates of radiation @ *#2  TURBINE BUILDING*

Radioactive Fission material detected in the pool @ the work area. *3.9Bq/cc is 10,000 times greater than the reactor water

*So far, *17 workers exposed to radiation of 100+m/Sev

Freshwater injection of Reactor Pressure Vessel #1 started afternoon of the 25th of March.

*

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## Brian4Liberty

> Depends on the isotope.  238 has a half life of something like 85 years, which is plenty long enough for the purposes of disaster.  IIRC, 239 is the real $#@!er and has a half life of over 20K years, or something like that.  One isotope half lives at something like 100 million years.  Sorry, all from 30 year old memory.
> 
> In any event, 239 is the real problem child as it is fissile and lasts a long time.


I'm no expert, but I read somewhere that the main difference is how long the body "holds" the material. The excess cesium and iodine supposedly pass right through you (like a water soluble vitamin), but some elements (that come from plutonium?) accumulate in your bones and never leave.

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## Carson

The wiki has an interesting article on the topic of Nuclear fission product.

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## huckans

We have collected rainwater here in PA for testing by our physics department.  Results will be ready some time this week.

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## Carson

I was thinking on the thing with the half life of Iodine-131 being eight days. 

That sort of thinking might be fine for an event that happened on *a* day. What we have now is an ongoing event, I would imagine. We have the half life of day one, plus two, plus three, plus four and so on to consider.

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## Carson

Another source of material on the status of the situation.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7706

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## s35wf

I just found a link to this article from ZH.  Those in CA may want to read it as it effects those in LosAngles. This is Old news but really was NEVER released to public.  It confirms we MUST NOT allow "O" to to lead us into more nuclear energy.  

http://www.miller-mccune.com/science...meltdown-3510/

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## kahless

> I just found a link to this article from ZH.  Those in CA may want to read it as it effects those in LosAngles. This is Old news but really was NEVER released to public.  It confirms we MUST NOT allow "O" to to lead us into more nuclear energy.  
> 
> http://www.miller-mccune.com/science...meltdown-3510/


I agree, but it is not just Obama, it is Ron Paul and the Republican leadership, John Boehner and Mitch McConnell also.  I am withholding all future donations from Campaign For Liberty and Ron Paul considering the recent jumping on Obama nuke bandwagon.  They hold many of my beliefs but I will not compromise my values and vote for candidates that support big government programs like nuclear power.  I never thought I would have to with Ron Paul since he has always been unwavering in his support for limited government.  That is until his and CFL recent hypocritical support for a technology that enslaves the taxpayers for generations.

So this is what it comes down to.  I had always thought the movement stuck to its beliefs.  I guess we found the one issue where they sold out.  Just like the Neocons are pimps for the military industrial complex, it looks this group are pimps for the nuclear energy with our money and our grand childrens money.

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## AFPVet

Here is another functioning radiation map for the U.S. http://coupmedia.org/realtime-us-radiation-map-1503

The only thing is that even though the background levels may be low, you do not want to breathe in one of the nasty particles.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I am withholding all future donations from Campaign For Liberty and Ron Paul considering the recent jumping on Obama nuke bandwagon.  They hold many of my beliefs but I will not compromise my values and vote for candidates that support big government programs like nuclear power.  I never thought I would have to with Ron Paul since he has always been unwavering in his support for limited government.  That is until his and CFL recent hypocritical support for a technology that enslaves the taxpayers for generations.


What about nuclear power plant fully funded and built by a power company?

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## ronpaulhawaii

RP on Nuclear +




> *What's your take on nuclear?*
> 
> RP - I think nuclear is great; I think it's the safest form of energy we have.
> 
> *But often the cheapest energy sources, which the market would naturally select for, are also the most environmentally harmful. How would you address this?*
> 
> RP- Your question is based on a false premise and a false definition of "market" that is quite understandable under the current legal framework. A true market system would internalize the costs of pollution on the producer. In other words, the "cheapest energy sources," as you call them, are only cheap because currently the costs of the environmental harm you identify are not being included or internalized, as economists would say, into the cheap energy sources.

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## kahless

> What about nuclear power plant fully funded and built by a power company?


They cannot be built without massive taxpayer subsidies and even they could there is no way a company could maintain the spent fuel infinitely.  Therefore it will always at some point fall to the taxpayer, if not now, then in a future generation.  Supporting nuclear power guarantees enslavement to the state.

If in your example the nuclear power plant was fully funded and built by a power company, the insurance companies still will not insure them. Therefore any accidents always fall back to the state and the taxpayer is forced to pick-up the tab.

The Nuclear power industry is worse than any welfare recipient or government program.  Welfare recipients die, programs can be eliminated and transferred to the private sector.  Nuclear power forces enslavement of the taxpayer to government or them infinitely.

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## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/goo...ribution-japan




> *GoogleEarth Based 3D Map Of Real-Time Radioactivity Distribution In Japan; Projected Global Radioactivity Dispersion*
> 
> Confirming that in a time of instantaneous crowdsourced information distribution and analysis, any attempt by a government to institute an information blackout of any nature is doomed to failure, is the following amazing Google Earth-based 3D interactive map of Geiger readings from Japan. And if that is not enough, the Pachube community has released an extensive selection of crowd-sourced realtime radiation monitoring tools and widgets, focusing on as many Japanese territories as possible. Shortly we are confident all geographical holes will be filled, and every square mile of the affected territories will be mapped out surpassed the government's "Under Survey" blackout attempts.

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## pcosmar

> They cannot be built without massive taxpayer subsidies and even they could there is no way a company could maintain the spent fuel infinitely.  Therefore it will always at some point fall to the taxpayer, if not now, then in a future generation.  Supporting nuclear power guarantees enslavement to the state.
> 
> If in your example the nuclear power plant was fully funded and built by a power company, the insurance companies still will not insure them. Therefore any accidents always fall back to the state and the taxpayer is forced to pick-up the tab.
> 
> The Nuclear power industry is worse than any welfare recipient or government program.  Welfare recipients die, programs can be eliminated and transferred to the private sector.  Nuclear power forces enslavement of the taxpayer to government or them infinitely.


Full of false assumptions.
Because it is presently funded you assume it always will be.
Because spent fuel is poorly handled (by the Government) you assume that it can not be handled better.

But back to "safety". 
1. Nothing is safe.
2. Nuclear has a better safety record than ANY other fuel in history.

Look at deaths caused by Black Lung (coal) or explosions (gas). Then there are the fires.
Nothing is safe. Can nuclear be made safer? No doubt it can. Fuel can be recycled and the remainder can be launched off planet into the sun.
Plants (in the future) can be placed in better locations. Away from known fault lines or even offshore.

Much can be done. Improvements  are possible.
Or we can reverse direction and revert to a purely agrarian society.

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## kahless

> Full of false assumptions.
> Because it is presently funded you assume it always will be.
> Because spent fuel is poorly handled (by the Government) you assume that it can not be handled better.
> 
> But back to "safety". 
> 1. Nothing is safe.
> 2. Nuclear has a better safety record than ANY other fuel in history.
> 
> Look at deaths caused by Black Lung (coal) or explosions (gas). Then there are the fires.
> ...


It must always be funded.  If no longer by the company then the taxpayer.  Containment does not last forever. It is something you cannot just walk away from.  If the company is no longer is funded and no one is willing to fix the failed companies mess, then the taxpayer will be forced to. This unlike ALL other competing technologies.

Using natural gas, oil, coal and green technologies do not have the long term health and environmental issues as nuclear power nor the storage issues.  These technologies do not force us all and generations to come to become tax slaves to it, unlike nuclear energy.  They are technologies you can walk away from.  The grid is less than 20% nuclear power so saying we will be going back to a "purely agrarian society" without it does not fly.  

I was attracted to this movement because of the promotion of "individual liberty".  Forcing people to be unwilling tax slaves for generations for a favored industry runs counter to that principle.

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## pcosmar

> *It must always be funded.*  If no longer by the company then the taxpayer.  Containment does not last forever. It is something you cannot just walk away from.  If the company is no longer is funded and no one is willing to fix the failed companies mess, then the taxpayer will be forced to. This unlike ALL other competing technologies.
> 
> Using natural gas, oil, coal and green technologies do not have the long term health and environmental issues as nuclear power nor the storage issues.  These technologies do not force us all and generations to come to become tax slaves to it, unlike nuclear energy.  They are technologies you can walk away from.  The grid is less than 20% nuclear power so saying we will be going back to a "purely agrarian society" without it does not fly.  
> 
> I was attracted to this movement because of the promotion of "individual liberty".  Forcing people to be unwilling tax slaves for generations for a favored industry runs counter to that principle.


Storage issues, Clean Up.

I grew up on Lime Island. it was a refueling Dock for Lake Freighters. Coal and Oil. 
It was shut down. and it could not be sold because of contamination.
It was cleaned up by the State. (taxpayers)

Hell, I would have taken the land "as is". But that was not allowed. 
How many have been killed in refinery fires. How many have died from "Black Lung".Natural Gas/Propane explosions.

Oh yeah, the spill clean up.(taxpayers)
Nuclear waste does not have to be stored. It can be disposed of.
Just because it isn't presently, does not mean it can't be.

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## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/bu...html?src=busln

*Global Supply Lines at Risk as Shipping Lines Shun Japan*

The economic disruptions from Japans crisis have cascaded into another, crucial link in the global supply chain: cargo shipping. 

Fearing the potential impact on crews, cargo and vessels worth tens of millions of dollars, some of the worlds biggest container shipping lines have restricted or barred their ships from calling on ports in Tokyo Bay over concerns about radiation from the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. 
...
Merchant vessels may have to be scrapped if quarantined even temporarily for radioactivity, because they would face extra coast guard checks for years at subsequent destinations, said Basil M. Karatzas, the managing director for projects and finance at Compass Maritime Services, a ship brokerage in Teaneck, N.J.

The extra inspections make it hard to keep a schedule. The charterers in the future will try to avoid the vessel because of the likelihood it will be delayed again, Mr. Karatzas said. 
...
Mr. Wong said he expected a slowdown. One of the problems weve been hearing is they have transportation issues of getting things from northern Japan, he said. Which is why we expect to get a slowdown of autos and auto parts. That should hit us in a few more weeks. 
...

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## Carson

> http://www.zerohedge.com/article/goo...ribution-japan


That one is pretty interesting.

I don't see the scale on the readings. 586 what? 

It sort of is looking like they are talking, "nano Gray per hour (nGy/h)"  Ah soo!  What ever that means. They have sensors using several different scales at the Pachube link.

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## Brian4Liberty

> I was thinking on the thing with the half life of Iodine-131 being eight days. 
> 
> That sort of thinking might be fine for an event that happened on *a* day. What we have now is an ongoing event, I would imagine.


Good point. They are measuring radiation at given points in time, and then saying it's no problem. How many continuous days (weeks) has this material been sent in the air? It has been raining in California continuously the last couple of weeks. Is radiation of some form accumulating in the soil (especially dairy grassland) and in the reservoirs?

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## kahless

> Storage issues, Clean Up.
> 
> I grew up on Lime Island. it was a refueling Dock for Lake Freighters. Coal and Oil. 
> It was shut down. and it could not be sold because of contamination.
> It was cleaned up by the State. (taxpayers)
> 
> Hell, I would have taken the land "as is". But that was not allowed. 
> How many have been killed in refinery fires. How many have died from "Black Lung".Natural Gas/Propane explosions.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you will clean it up yourself but then you must dispose of the nuclear waste which must be maintained infinitely. After you die or are unable to pay, we the taxpayers get saddled with it.  There is no comparison to what you describe since the difference is that when it is nuclear it cannot be cleaned up as easily if at all compared to the other technologies.  Worst case scenario look at Chernobyl and now Fukshima where they are saying larges areas will be permanently uninhabitable.  This is unlike the other technologies where damage is generally localized, temporary and the environment takes care of it after a few years.

As far as gas/propane explosions, they are localized and there is no life long risk to others living in the vicinity.  "Black Lung"? Just ask the laborers at nuclear power plants that come out with a sun tan after a days work and do not make it out of their 20s or 30s.  This is the dark side of nuclear power that no one wants to talk about.

You speak of coal but these days miners can use respirators.  The coal miners knew the risk when they took those jobs and chose to work in that profession.  This unlike forcing everyone in the vicinity of a nuclear power plant to be exposed unwillingly.  Far more people have suffered various cancers, birth defects, autism, etc from nuclear power plants over substantial areas rather than localized effects from competing technologies.

I respect your right to do as you wish however that right ends when it involves forcing others to be exposed to it and pay for it.

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## TheState

I don't know if you guys saw, but XKCD did a cool radiation chart, http://xkcd.com/radiation/.

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## Inkblots

> Using natural gas, oil, coal and green technologies do not have the long term health and environmental issues as nuclear power nor the storage issues.  These technologies do not force us all and generations to come to become tax slaves to it, unlike nuclear energy.  They are technologies you can walk away from.  The grid is less than 20% nuclear power so saying we will be going back to a "purely agrarian society" without it does not fly.


Absolutely untrue.  Natural gas, oil, and _especially_ coal power generation have far more severe public health effects than either nuclear or renewable power generation because of the huge amounts of particulate air pollution they produce, as well as the deaths and pollution inherent in fossil fuel extraction and refinement.  One analysis of the number of deaths per terawatt-hour (TWh) of energy generated from various power sources breaks down as follows:

Energy Source.........................Death Rate (deaths/TWh)

Coal – world average.................. 161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
Coal – China................................ 278
Coal – USA................................... 15
Oil...............................................  .. 36  (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas................................... 4  (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass............................. 12
Peat.............................................. 12
Solar (rooftop)............................... 0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind.............................................. 0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro............................................. 0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao)... 1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear.......................................... 0.04 (5.9% of world energy)

The complete analysis can be found here, with links to the primary sources for the analysis.  Even if you quibble somewhat with the figures regarding the number of construction deaths for each form of energy, the clear picture is that both nuclear and renewable energy sources are far safer than fossil fuels.

As to your larger points about nuclear energy inherently requiring taxpayer involvement, you are again mistaken.  While it is true that in the past nuclear power station construction has invariably been supported by taxpayer-guaranteed loans, a primary cause of this is the vast regulatory and regime uncertainty imposed on the construction of new reactors by the US government's ever-changing policies.  Considering the fact that no new nuclear plants have been licensed and built to completion in over 30 years, and that licenses granted by DOE under nuclear-friendly administrations have been subsequently revoked, it is little wonder that investment capital avoids nuclear projects; the uncertainty is simply too great.  But again, this is entirely the fault of government, and not inherent to nuclear power itself.  Streamlining and rationalizing the approval and inspection process would largely obviate the need to taxpayer-back loans.

And as to your point about the inevitability of the disposal or storage of spent nuclear fuel falling to the taxpayer if nuclear power is to operate profitably, again you are mistaken.  First of all, spent nuclear fuel reprocessing can reduce the amount of waste generated by a power station by up to 70% by weight and could be operated as a profitable co-enterprise by the private nuclear energy, if only the government would approve the construction of reprocessing plants - which, to date, the US government has consistently blocked.  In just the same way, any individual or consortium with ownership of a seismically stable badlands site could profitably put this otherwise useless land to good use as a long-term spent nuclear fuel storage site for, say, a flat fee for storage until the radioactive materials have decayed to a predetermined safe level, when the waste could then be disposed of by dispersal.  Once the upfront capital costs of containment construction were complete, a very profitable business could be had, returning a steady income stream from otherwise unworkable real property.  But again, government thwarts the establishment of any such facility, intervening in the use of private property by responsible enterprises.

In short, your argument that support for nuclear energy production is inherently statist simply doesn't stand up.  All the examples you give of costs for nuclear power being borne by taxpayers are entirely the result of government policy, and not inherent to nuclear power at all.  I favor free-market nuclear power, and support the end to the public policies that thwart it - just as Ron Paul does.

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## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ls-rocket.html




> ‘There is a strong possibility that some part of the reactor is now damaged and the containment function is weakening,’ said Mr Nishiyama.
> ...
> Whatever the reason for the leak, experts said the evidence suggested that the radiation had come from within the reactor itself. Experts analysing the water that had contaminated the workers found that it contained radioactive cerium-144 and iodine-131 - substances that are generated during nuclear fission inside a reactor.


Does the presence of the cerium 144 and iodine 131 mean it has gone critical?

----------


## TheState

> Does the presence of the cerium 144 and iodine 131 mean it has gone critical?


Those are the result of fission, but they were probably produced back when the reactors were operating. I-131 has a half life of 8 days, Ce-144 has a half life of about 285 days, so they'll be around even after the reactor shuts down.

What it probably indicates is that there's some leak from the reactor vessel. You'd need to know more about the levels to know what the magnitude of the leak might be.

----------


## kahless

> Absolutely untrue.  Natural gas, oil, and _especially_ coal power generation have far more severe public health effects than either nuclear or renewable power generation because of the huge amounts of particulate air pollution they produce, as well as the deaths and pollution inherent in fossil fuel extraction and refinement.  One analysis of the number of deaths per terawatt-hour (TWh) of energy generated from various power sources breaks down as follows:
> 
> Energy Source.........................Death Rate (deaths/TWh)
> 
> Coal – world average.................. 161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
> Coal – China................................ 278
> Coal – USA................................... 15
> Oil...............................................  .. 36  (36% of world energy)
> Natural Gas................................... 4  (21% of world energy)
> ...


Where did you get these stats, the IAEA or WHO?  As part of the WHO charter they cannot make any comment or decision regarding nuclear energy without deferring to the IAEA which actively promotes nuclear power.  So these baked stats are about as good as stats from the Tobacco companies in the 1940's that claimed smoking is good for your health.  If those stats point out short term deaths at the site of an accident they would be accurate.  As we know cancer deaths and illnesses from direct or cummulative radiation are over a longer term and effect not only the workers but the surrounding communities or regions.  I could pull out stats from radiation.org and other studies that show quite the opposite of those baked numbers.

Secondly there are no studies done by the industry as a result of accidents due to liability purposes and there never will be. For example we had an accident at the plant near me that released 600,000 gallons of radioactive steam and the plant failed to report it for 3 days.  Independent studies show surrounding communities at this plant already have the highest thyroid and bone cancer rates in the country.  Will there be a study to determine the effects of this release by the plant, highly doubtful.  This is just one plant and I can pick out many more that have had accidents and pull the same nonsense.  




> As to your larger points about nuclear energy inherently requiring taxpayer involvement, you are again mistaken. While it is true that in the past nuclear power station construction has invariably been supported by taxpayer-guaranteed loans, a primary cause of this is the vast regulatory and regime uncertainty imposed on the construction of new reactors by the US government's ever-changing policies.  Considering the fact that no new nuclear plants have been licensed and built to completion in over 30 years, and that licenses granted by DOE under nuclear-friendly administrations have been subsequently revoked, it is little wonder that investment capital avoids nuclear projects; the uncertainty is simply too great.  But again, this is entirely the fault of government, and not inherent to nuclear power itself.  Streamlining and rationalizing the approval and inspection process would largely obviate the need to taxpayer-back loans.


That is pure fantasy to blame the astronomical startup costs on regulation. You also speak as if loan guarantees are a thing of the past when the fact is the only reason we have a new plant being built for the first time in 30 years is due to Obama's loan guarantees (that are being backed by the Republican leadership).  You blame government inspection and approval, so in otherwords with such dangerous technology in the wrong hands that could effect so many lives, you want to eliminate the regulatory hurdles.  I am typically against all regulation but we currently do not have an alternative in this case and with what little we do have we would be begging for trouble considering the state of some operations.  This despite the NRC being basically a useless government regulatory entity.

Do you have any idea what is going on at many of our plants or are you just looking at scientific theory as if things are always being done the right way rather being done to increase profits at the expense of maintenance and safety?  We already have a variety of plants over packed with spent fuel, failing pool infrastructure and racked with safety issues.




> And as to your point about the inevitability of the disposal or storage of spent nuclear fuel falling to the taxpayer if nuclear power is to operate profitably, again you are mistaken.  First of all, spent nuclear fuel reprocessing can reduce the amount of waste generated by a power station by up to 70% by weight and could be operated as a profitable co-enterprise by the private nuclear energy, if only the government would approve the construction of reprocessing plants - which, to date, the US government has consistently blocked.  In just the same way, any individual or consortium with ownership of a seismically stable badlands site could profitably put this otherwise useless land to good use as a long-term spent nuclear fuel storage site for, say, a flat fee for storage until the radioactive materials have decayed to a predetermined safe level, when the waste could then be disposed of by dispersal.  Once the upfront capital costs of containment construction were complete, a very profitable business could be had, returning a steady income stream from otherwise unworkable real property.  But again, government thwarts the establishment of any such facility, intervening in the use of private property by responsible enterprises.
> 
> In short, your argument that support for nuclear energy production is inherently statist simply doesn't stand up.  All the examples you give of costs for nuclear power being borne by taxpayers are entirely the result of government policy, and not inherent to nuclear power at all.  I favor free-market nuclear power, and support the end to the public policies that thwart it - just as Ron Paul does.


Again, with nuclear waste you must consider for generations to come an operator or depot as you describe, perpetually having funding to maintain the disposal.  If they cannot do so it will fall to the taxpayer as it has in the past and will continue to in the future.  Therefore your support for nuclear power is forcing me and my family for generations to come to be unwilling slaves to government to maintain it and secure it.

I have not even mentioned that insurance companies will not even touch a nuclear power.  You cannot blame government regulation on that. They do not want the liability.  Therefore it there is an accident it will be the state - taxpayer that again will be paying out.  Just another example of your love for this industry enslaving us all to big government.

btw - "just as Ron Paul does",  well then I no longer support Ron Paul and find his support for it counter and hypocritical to everything he has preached.

----------


## pcosmar

> Again, with nuclear waste you must consider for generations to come an operator or depot as you describe,* perpetually having funding to maintain the disposal.*  If they cannot do so it will fall to the taxpayer as it has in the past and will continue to in the future.  Therefore your support for nuclear power is forcing me and my family for generations to come to be unwilling slaves to government to maintain it and secure it.


Launch it off planet. Into the suns gravitational well. (technology that has existed for 50 years)
Problem solved.
next.

----------


## kahless

> Launch it off planet. Into the suns gravitational well. (technology that has existed for 50 years)
> Problem solved.
> next.


Kind of.  Perpetually maintaining the waste makes nuclear power more expensive than any alternative.  Getting it out of here you would think significantly reduces the years you have to maintain it here but the cost of launching it into space would still make it cost prohibitive.  Maybe in the future that would change.  With all the failed launches using today's current technology the risk would also be too great.

----------


## Carson

> Launch it off planet. Into the suns gravitational well. (technology that has existed for 50 years)
> Problem solved.
> next.


I thought the same thing. Be expensive. And quite an exciting experiment.

More practically we should already have the bottom of the sarcophagus built and then build the reactor on top if we're going to entomb them. 

And really. How can you run through scenarios of things like this happening and still find yourself standing way back looking at things like open pools of danger like we have?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Japan workers pulled out of reactor, as radiation soars

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707
27 March 2011 Last updated at 01:13 ET 

Reports from Japan say radioactivity in water at reactor 2 at the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant is *10 million times the usual level.*

...

$#@!!

----------


## LibertyRevolution

If we wanted green power then we would be using solar power to run electrolysis to smash water into browns gas and burning that to turn the turbines at power plants...

oh wait, there is too much free sunlight and water around.. its like it falls from the sky.. who would pay for it. Must keep using these limited fuel sources to help boost profits.

Oh, and you know what comes out the exhaust pipe when your done burning that browns gas right? pure drinkable water...

----------


## raiha

When this problem first began, the 'experts' said we will know one way or the other in 48 hours. Yeah right!  
The radioactive iodine in the seawater is 1850 higher than normal. You have got to ask: What happens to all the seawater that is pumped in to cool those reactors? Where does it go? Into the goundwater. Into the sea.

I'm with Kahless. You have the nuclear industry which is as powerful as the MIC. These people close ranks when things go wrong.
The issue has always been the waste. The containment methods for disposal do not last as long as the waste. Nice little heritage for our grandchildren and their children: The Russians were hopeless:

WHERE DOES THE WASTE GO?




> Nuclear waste has been dumped into oceans, rivers and lakes, and into the ground. Leaking containers of radioactive wastes add to this on a daily basis, endangering the earth's groundwater. There is no permanent storage site that is free from the hazards of radioactive waste.
> 
> The following examples are given to indicate the serious and unsolved nature of the nuclear waste crisis.
> 
> Port Granby, Canada dump site: Port Granby, east of Oshawa, Canada, is one of three landfills in the Port Hope area storing radioactive waste from a nearby uranium processing plant. Over 40 years, more than half-a-million tons of radioactive waste was buried in 122 14- foot pits in the Port Granby dump. Years of public outcry forced the closing of the dump in 1988. Despite efforts to capture the seepage, radioactive groundwater from this site makes its way down the bluffs, where the current carries it towards Toronto. A greater fear is the cliff sides that are eroding. One day, the bluffs will send chunks of the dump site crashing into the water. Currendy, anti-dump activists debate with nuclear officials over the perilous dump site, with no solution at hand. (New Magazine, Toronto, March 1993).
> 
> Russian Dumping: On September 2, 3, and 4, 1992, the Los Angeles Times reported on "The Soviets' Deadly Nuclear Legacy". From 1966 to 1991, the Russians dumped nuclear wastes into rivers, lakes and into the ocean. Russia's deadly atomic legacy is just now coming to light in a report issued in March 1993 by Russian President Boris Yeltsin. From 1949 to 1956, nuclear waste from plutonium refining was dumped into the Techa River, even though radioactivity began showing up 1000 miles downstream in 1953. Today, gamma radiation on the river bank measures 100-times normal levels. Aware of the radioactivity in the Techa, Russian workers began dumping into Lake Karachai. Today, "to stand on its bank, even for a short time, would be deadly," according to Mira Kosenko, M.D., of the Chelyabinsk Institute of Physics and Biology.
> 
> The Russians dumped at least 15 used nuclear reactors including six submarine units containing uranium fuel into the Kara Sea. According to Andrei Zolotkov, a radiation safety engineer, the entire hull section of the obsolete nuclear powered icebreaker V.1. was cut out with blowtorches and sunk. The irradiated mass measured 65 by 65 by 35 feet, or as high as a five-story building. The results of this are now evident. Officials at the Northern Division of the Polar Institute of Fish and Oceanography in Arkhangelsk report that thousands of seals are dying of cancer. This was caused by radioactive pollution of the seabed plus fallout from Russian nuclear tests on Novaya Zemyla, the archipelago where the seals live.
> ...


http://www.lightparty.com/Energy/RoyProcess.html

If I were you lot, I'd be coming on down to the Southern Hemisphere.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Those are the result of fission, but they were probably produced back when the reactors were operating. I-131 has a half life of 8 days, Ce-144 has a half life of about 285 days, so they'll be around even after the reactor shuts down.
> 
> What it probably indicates is that there's some leak from the reactor vessel. You'd need to know more about the levels to know what the magnitude of the leak might be.


Reports are claiming 1000 mSv in the air (is that 1Sv?) which is well into the danger zone on the dosing chart... 

About the I-131, it has a half life of 8 days, yet has been detected outside containment 16 days after the control rods were inserted. What might account for that?

And, in the case of a meltdown within the reactor vessel, doesn't the melted fuel pool at the bottom? How do the control rods work in that scenario? Is it impossible for a pool of melted fuel in the bottom of a BWR reactor vessel to become critical?

----------


## Carson

People are talking about the relativity of safety of nuclear power and other forms of power production. 

One of the things is, is that if another form has an accident you usually see it. If someone is using coal they may say they have had a spill. In fact they may say they have had a spill all along the train route from where they mined  it to where it is used. Once they are gone and civilization forgets them you may find people innocently living along those train tracks burning the coal for fuel.

It is different with a spill from one of these reactors. Not only do we not get honest answers about the accidents and the spills, the danger of spills of something that can't be seen right off. Not that anyone is always to blame mind you. Part of it is the hidden nature of the unstable atoms. If you can't trust the operators and scientist now, how will you be able to trust them fifty thousand years from now to keep warning people of the safety of nuclear power and to not take your family into that area or they will wither and die?

----------


## MozoVote

Interesting article on the decontamination efforts on the USS Reagan

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/11..._exposure.html

----------


## Carson

> Reports are claiming 1000 mSv in the air (is that 1Sv?) which is well into the danger zone on the dosing chart... 
> 
> About the I-131, it has a half life of 8 days, yet has been detected outside containment 16 days after the control rods were inserted. What might account for that?
> 
> Snip...


I'm thinking a blown core could account for some of it. But I'm just guessing. 

Then again an 8 day half life just means half the atoms have had a reaction and broken down to a more stable form but the other half of them are still unstable. They will still be detected breaking down.




> Reports are claiming 1000 mSv in the air (is that 1Sv?) which is well into the danger zone on the dosing chart... 
> 
> Snip...
> 
> And, in the case of a meltdown within the reactor vessel, doesn't the melted fuel pool at the bottom? How do the control rods work in that scenario? Is it impossible for a pool of melted fuel in the bottom of a BWR reactor vessel to become critical?


If you mean critical as in blow up as apposed to a slower burn, many say it would be difficult. What would need to happen is you would refine the mess you've got in those reactors and separate out some of the more unstable atoms and then bring them closer together in a controlled way as to get a clean chain reaction.

I remember one of the better examples that was used in the fifties.

They took a whole bunch of mouse traps and on each one they placed a ping pong ball. If the traps were spread out on the floor far away from each other and one was set off the ball would fly up in the air and come down and bounce away harmlessly. If you started placing the traps closer and closer together at some point you would have a critical mass. In other words if you set off one of the traps then and the ball flew up and came down odds are it would hit and set off another trap. That in turn would send up another ball and pretty soon you would have lots of balls bouncing and setting off lots of traps.

----------


## Carson

> Interesting article on the decontamination efforts on the USS Reagan
> 
> http://www.seattlepi.com/national/11..._exposure.html


I liked the picture of them spraying the deck down to wash off the fallout.

I wonder where they got the water?

While I was taking a shower the other day to wash off any unnecessary fallout, I stood there wondering if the water supply would become contaminated enough that what I was doing was pointless. Actually the whole showering at that point was pretty pointless in itself. The water supply and I probably were pretty equally contaminated at that point. I live in California. It does seem to be the time though to start thinking  your way through some of the habits that may help protect you in the future. 

If I was able to plant a crop this year I would turn the soil deep. Then again I pretty much always have.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

the mousetrap image works...

Reports that the 10,000,000x reading was not accurate

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...430593782.html




> Jiji Press quoted the Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) as saying on Sunday that the mistake - which indicated radiation levels 10 million times higher than normal - was due to confusion between readings of iodine and cobalt in the water.
> 
> The inaccurate reading had forced emergency workers to flee from the complex's Unit 2 reactor.
> 
> "The number is not credible," said TEPCO's spokesman, Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorry."
> 
> He said officials were taking another sample to get accurate levels, but did not know when the results would be announced.
> 
> The situation came as officials acknowledged there was radioactive water in all four of the Fukushima Daiichi complex's most troubled reactors, and as airborne radiation in Unit 2 measured 1,000 millisieverts per hour - four times the limit deemed safe by the government, Kurita said.


but the airborne 1,000 millisieverts is reconfirmed...

----------


## Carson

_Japan Nuclear Meltdown: Radiation Spike False, TEPCO Apologizes
March 27, 2011 10:40 AM EDT

A recent major spike in radiation at Fukushima Dai-ichi's reactor 2 was an error, which caused major panic among those repairing the Japan nuclear plants. A reading on one of the reactors was so high that the worker fled before conducting another test. While it caused a panic, it is hard to blame the worker for leaving at that point for safety's sake._

Snip...

Read the rest of the story here.

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.a...81474979166398

----------


## TheState

> Reports are claiming 1000 mSv in the air (is that 1Sv?) which is well into the danger zone on the dosing chart... 
> 
> About the I-131, it has a half life of 8 days, yet has been detected outside containment 16 days after the control rods were inserted. What might account for that?
> 
> And, in the case of a meltdown within the reactor vessel, doesn't the melted fuel pool at the bottom? How do the control rods work in that scenario? Is it impossible for a pool of melted fuel in the bottom of a BWR reactor vessel to become critical?


Like Carson said, 8 days is just the half life, which means in 8 days the quantity is reduced by half. So 16 days later, 1/4 of the original quantity still exists. 

The fuel could melt and pool at the bottom, but it can't become critical. These type of reactors have fuel which has such low enrichment that it's very hard to find a critical geometry. I would say it's pretty much impossible for a pool of molten fuel to become critical. There would be no water to moderate the neutrons and the high temperature would mean doppler broadening would reduce any fissions even more (doppler broadening causes the likelyhood of a fission to go down as temperature increases bc U-238 is more likely to capture the neutrons instead).

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Like Carson said, 8 days is just the half life, which means in 8 days the quantity is reduced by half. So 16 days later, 1/4 of the original quantity still exists. 
> 
> The fuel could melt and pool at the bottom, but it can't become critical. These type of reactors have fuel which has such low enrichment that it's very hard to find a critical geometry. I would say it's pretty much impossible for a pool of molten fuel to become critical. There would be no water to moderate the neutrons and the high temperature would mean doppler broadening would reduce any fissions even more (doppler broadening causes the likelyhood of a fission to go down as temperature increases bc U-238 is more likely to capture the neutrons instead).


Thanks. After writing earlier I had wondered about the water aspect. Sorry to be so dense on these subjects but I'd rather err on the worst case scenario side...

Am I right in assuming that a difficulty with the molten mass scenario is a reduction of available surface area for the coolant to reach, slowing down the cool down process?

----------


## TheState

> Thanks. After writing earlier I had wondered about the water aspect. Sorry to be so dense on these subjects but I'd rather err on the worst case scenario side...


No problem, I've actually been impressed by the level of knowledge on the forums and the amount of research many have done.




> Am I right in assuming that a difficulty with the molten mass scenario is a reduction of available surface area for the coolant to reach, slowing down the cool down process?


You're exactly right. What can happen is that the fuel can melt into a certain geometry where it is impossible to cool. This is obviously a bad scenario and depends on a couple factors

- The smaller the debris, the harder to cool (so chunks of rods are usually coolable, but fine fuel particles, say from a steam explosion, would be more difficult to cool).
- The deeper the pool or debris bed, the harder to cool

Here's a pic I stole from my notes.



EDIT: One last point, in the industry, when a core melts, the new mixture that is formed is often referred to as "corium". So in case anyone sees that terminology somewhere, it's just another term for melted core material.

----------


## Carson

Just saw this one in a Google Alerts on, Fukushima Meltdown".


_Low-level radiation found in Bay State rainwater

By Joe Dwinell

Sunday, March 27, 2011 - Updated 3 hours ago

Radiation from the stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant in Japan is now showing up in rain in Massachusetts, health officials announced today.

The state Department of Public Health said low levels of radiation were detected in Bay State rainwater earlier this week. Massachusetts now joins scores of other states from the west to the east reporting higher than normal signs of contamination, all likely from Japan.

The DPH said the radiation -- in the form of radioiodine-131-- does not pose a health threat to Bay State residents and that the air and public drinking water supplies have tested clean. Radi_

Snip...

Read the rest here;

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/re...ome&position=0

Link to RADNet that they talk about in the article;

http://www.epa.gov/japan2011/rert/radnet-data-map.html

----------


## Fire11

Cost per kilowatt hour of electricity. Source MIT:

Nuclear: $0.08 

Coal: $0.06

Gas: $0.07

Projected $/megawatt hour of electricity in 2016

Conventional natural Gas: $75

Conventional Coal: $105

Wind: $102

Nuclear $125

Clean coal: $145

Solar PV: $210

Myth 1: Nuclear power is a cheap alternative to fossil fuels.

Fact 1: Nuclear energy is a very costly business.

Myth 2: The main issue surrounding Nuclear power is safety.

Fact 2: The cost is the main issue.

Bloomberg Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD40J45zjIM

----------


## Diurdi

Operating costs for Nuclear energy are far lower than Coal.
It's just that Nuclear plants' initial investments are much higher due to stricter safety standards, compared to coal.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Hourly dose examples*


Average individual background radiation dose: 0.23μSv/hr (0.00023mSv/hr); 0.17μSv/hr for Australians, 0.34μSv/hr for AmericansHighest reported level during Fukushima accident: 1000 mSv/hr
*Yearly dose examples*


Living near a nuclear power station: 0.0001–0.01 mSv/yearLiving near a coal power station: 0.0003 mSv/yearSleeping next to a human for 8 hours every night: 0.02 mSv/yrCosmic radiation (from sky) at sea level: 0.24 mSv/yearTerrestrial radiation (from ground): 0.28 mSv/yearNatural radiation in the human body: 0.40 mSv/yearRadiation produced by the granite of the United States Capitol building: 0.85 mSv/yearAverage individual background radiation dose: 2 mSv/year; 1.5 mSv/year for Australians, 3.0 mSv/year for AmericansNew York-Tokyo flights for airline crew: 9 mSv/yearAtmospheric sources (mostly radon): 2 mSv/yearTotal average radiation dose for Americans: 6.2 mSv/yearSmoking 1.5 packs/day: 13-60 mSv/yearCurrent average limit for nuclear workers: 20 mSv/yearBackground radiation in parts of Iran, India and Europe: 50 mSv/yearElevated limit for workers during Fukushima emergency: 250 mSv/year
*Dose limit examples*


*Criterion for relocation after Chernobyl disaster: 350 mSv/lifetime  <=== WOW*In most countries the current maximum permissible dose to radiation  workers is 20 mSv per year averaged over five years, with a maximum of  50 mSv in any one year. This is over and above background exposure, and  excludes medical exposure. The value originates from the International  Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP), and is coupled with the requirement to keep exposure as low as reasonably achievable (ALARA) – taking into account social and economic factors.Public dose limits for exposure from uranium mining or nuclear plants are usually set at 1 mSv/yr above background.
* Symptom benchmarks*

 Symptoms of acute radiation (within one day):

0 – 0.25 Sv (0 – 250 mSv): None*0.25 – 1 Sv (250 – 1000 mSv): Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged.<=== Fukushima Is Here**
**1 – 3 Sv (1000 – 3000 mSv): Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured. * *<=== Fukushima Is Here**
*3 – 6 Sv (3000 – 6000 mSv): Severe nausea, loss of appetite; hemorrhaging, infection, diarrhea, peeling of skin, sterility; death if untreated.6 – 10 Sv (6000 – 10000 mSv): Above symptoms plus central nervous system impairment; death expected.Above 10 Sv (10000 mSv): Incapacitation and death.
 See also Radiation poisoning.

----------


## Carson

New tsunami warning out.

*
Magnitude-6.5 Quake Off Japan; Small Tsunami Alert*

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...rt-1082054647/

----------


## Carson

*Breaking: Fukushima Dai-Ichi Owners Release First Video of Helicopter Over-Flight*

http://blogs.forbes.com/oshadavidson...r-over-flight/

Fasten your seat belts!




Note; Steam from core region.

----------


## Carson

> *Hourly dose examples*
> 
> 
> Snip...


Great post *HOLLYWOOD!*

----------


## steph3n

> *Breaking: Fukushima Dai-Ichi Owners Release First Video of Helicopter Over-Flight*
> 
> http://blogs.forbes.com/oshadavidson...r-over-flight/
> 
> Fasten your seat belts!


wow that was hard to watch.

----------


## Carson

> wow that was hard to watch.


Some of it plays better if you stop the video and try to control it with the slider button.

----------


## MozoVote

Here is a vid that shows you the size (height) of the wave that came in. Did this inundate the reactor complex to the same extent? Yikes. No wonder we're talking about possible containment damage. That was an immense mass of water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfy1CoxrMo

----------


## rawful

> *Breaking: Fukushima Dai-Ichi Owners Release First Video of Helicopter Over-Flight*
> 
> http://blogs.forbes.com/oshadavidson...r-over-flight/
> 
> Fasten your seat belts!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note; Steam from core region.


At the :30 mark it looks like the exposed rods from Chernobyl.

----------


## Carson

> At the :30 mark it looks like the exposed rods from Chernobyl.


Are you talking about the orange spot?

----------


## rawful

> Are you talking about the orange spot?


Yes.

----------


## Carson

> Yes.


It is a confusing video and hard for me to tell what I'm looking at for sure. It also took me a while to even orient myself as to the four reactor buildings because so much of them is now missing.

----------


## KramerDSP

> At the :30 mark it looks like the exposed rods from Chernobyl.


Looks like a regular fire to me. The Chernobyl one had an ORANGE molten core that looked like a stationary fireball. This doesn't.

----------


## Carson

> At the :30 mark it looks like the exposed rods from Chernobyl.


I've been thinking about your orange spot. It is alarming looking but it doesn't really look like it located in the area that worries me the most. See at about 0:49 the light grayish steam rising next to the thick white steam rising on the left. This is the place that worries me. About an equal distance farther to the right and next to the dark looking hole may be another view on the orange spot. If so it doesn't look like so much as it did in the first fly by.

----------


## steph3n

> I've been thinking about your orange spot. It is alarming looking but it doesn't really look like it located in the area that worries me the most. See at about 0:49 the light grayish steam rising next to the thick white steam rising on the left. This is the place that worries me. About an equal distance farther to the right and next to the dark looking hole may be another view on the orange spot. If so it doesn't look like so much as it did in the first fly by.


Agreed, form what I can see the steam looks a lot more troublesome.

----------


## rawful

> Looks like a regular fire to me. The Chernobyl one had an ORANGE molten core that looked like a stationary fireball. This doesn't.


If it's a regular fire, where is the smoke?

----------


## S.Shorland

Bit strange imo.Why don't they use one of their own military's reconnaisance drones to film the scene rather than risk frightened men to grab hurried shots?If there is still radiation danger,ask the Americans to ship some predator drones over.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

A couple things in this report:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=13235478




> "The problem is that right now nobody can reach the turbine houses where key electrical work must be done. There is a possibility that we may have to give up on that plan," he said.
> 
> Meanwhile, experts at Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said that the radioactive materials could be leaking directly from the reactor core, which would indicate a breach.


and, if you watch the video you will see footage by a "daring" British reporter who drove up to the gates of the plant and is "*now* worried about his health"  wth??? Will UK taxpayers be paying for this guys health problems?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/118773249.html

*Don't Drink the Rainwater*

The Virginia Department of Health has issued a warning to state residents: do not drink rainwater.

The warning comes after radioactive particles released in Japan have been documented around the United States and now in places on the East Coast.

From a release issued Sunday:

    VDH is advising residents that the state’s drinking water supplies remain safe, but reminds Virginians out of an abundance of caution they should avoid using rainwater collected in cisterns as drinking water.

...

Although radiation readings have yet to raise real alarm, Virginian health officials have stepped up testing as a precaution.  Scheduled monitoring of air, drinking water, vegetation, and milk will be moved up by a week to begin this Monday.  Officials are also coordinating with federal and state partners to keep tabs on the concern.

...

----------


## squarepusher

> Here is a vid that shows you the size (height) of the wave that came in. Did this inundate the reactor complex to the same extent? Yikes. No wonder we're talking about possible containment damage. That was an immense mass of water.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfy1CoxrMo


link is dead, was a good video though, any way to get the video again?

----------


## sparebulb

> http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/118773249.html
> 
> *Don't Drink the Rainwater*
> 
> The Virginia Department of Health has issued a warning to state residents: do not drink rainwater.
> 
> The warning comes after radioactive particles released in Japan have been documented around the United States and now in places on the East Coast.
> 
> From a release issued Sunday:
> ...



This is just me, but I cannot imagine drinking unfiltered water from cisterns or other rainwater collection systems.  There is way too much bird poop and dead bugs on the roof for my liking.  I assume that filtration is what is necessary to remove particles that are radioactive.

----------


## MozoVote

> link is dead, was a good video though, any way to get the video again?


Here. Yeah, just imagine THAT wave crashing through the reactor complex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWmFrmBtE-I

----------


## Carson

> Bit strange imo.Why don't they use one of their own military's reconnaisance drones to film the scene rather than risk frightened men to grab hurried shots?If there is still radiation danger,ask the Americans to ship some predator drones over.


I thought they sent some over early on. I never heard about or saw any of the pictures though.

----------


## s35wf

PLUTONIUM IN SOIL IN JAPAN!!! 

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I will make a few general introductory remarks before handing over to my colleagues for the Technical Briefing. The current situation can be summarised as follows:

    * Situation remains very serious.
    * Priority now is to overcome the crisis.
    * We are also planning ahead.
    * The IAEA is doing everything in its power to help Japan.

Let me elaborate a little.

The crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi plant has still not been overcome and it will take some time to stabilise the reactors.

*For now, radioactivity in the environment, foodstuffs and water - including the sea - is a matter of concern in the vicinity of the Fukushima plant and beyond.* Current levels indicate a need for further comprehensive monitoring.

On the positive side, electrical power has been restored at Units 1, 2 and 3 and fresh water is now available on the site.

----------


## sparebulb

> PLUTONIUM IN SOIL IN JAPAN!!! 
> 
> http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
> 
> I will make a few general introductory remarks before handing over to my colleagues for the Technical Briefing. The current situation can be summarised as follows:
> 
>     * Situation remains very serious.
> ...


IAEA = tits on a boar

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tion-usa_N.htm

Good map of states that have detected radiation.

From the map, it becomes blatantly obvious that many states are either not looking, have detection systems that suck or that are hiding the info from the public.

-t

----------


## pcosmar

> or that are hiding the info from the public.
> 
> -t


I'll take the "Sound of Silence" for 100 Alex.

----------


## raiha

> *Plutonium detected in soil at Fukushima nuke plant*TOKYO, March 29, Kyodo
> 
> Plutonium has been detected in soil at five locations at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi atomic power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Monday, adding to woes over radiation contamination in the country's worst nuclear crisis.
> 
> The operator of the six-reactor complex said that the plutonium, the presence of which was confirmed for the first time in the ongoing nuclear emergency, could have been discharged from nuclear fuel at the plant hit by the devastating March 11 earthquake and tsunami, but does not pose a major risk to human health.
> 
> Plutonium is more toxic than other radioactive substances such as iodine and cesium, but the levels confirmed from soil samples taken at the plant on March 21 and 22 were almost the same as those from the fallout detected in Japan following past nuclear tests by the United States and Russia, said the utility known as TEPCO.
> 
> The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said it remains unknown which reactor plutonium came from and that TEPCO and the science ministry will strengthen monitoring on the environment both in the plant and outside of a 20-kilometer exclusion zone set by the government.
> ...


http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81609.html

oops sorry, another version of this has been posted. How can plutonium not be a risk to human health? Magical thinking going on there in Fukushima.

----------


## TheState

> How can plutonium not be a risk to human health? Magical thinking going on there in Fukushima.


Plutonium is usually not considered a huge health hazard in reactor accidents. Unlike some other radionuclides, plutonium is very heavy so it usually doesn't travel in the air, but just settles on the ground. Also, it is an alpha emitter, and alpha particles can't travel even an inch in air or penetrate skin. The danger from plutonium (and alpha emitters in general), is from ingestion or inhalation, but no one should be eating anything from the plant site and it's too heavy to be airborne.

Like I had said previously in this thread, these accidents will be more of an economic disaster than a health disaster. Plutonium plays into that. It has an extremely long half life and will add to the clean up costs of the site.

----------


## smithtg

i love the length of this thread  (no I didnt read it all), but in reality it may be worth printing someday because over the course of weeks, this whole thing has went from bad to worse (or it was already really bad and nobody in the gov't wanted anyone to know)

cheers

----------


## s35wf

Radioactivity has now gone around the globe and now being reported in UK & Scotland!


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110329/...i-45dbed5.html

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Radioactivity has now gone around the globe and now being reported in UK & Scotland!
> 
> 
> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110329/...i-45dbed5.html


When it gets back to Japan will they freak out from the spike?  
Will they even notice it?
Will they use that fact to downplay their latest meltdown?

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Workers at Japan Nuke Plant 'Lost the Race' to Save Reactor, Expert Says*

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...r-expert-says/

Workers at the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant appeared to have "lost the race" to save one of the reactors, a U.S. expert told the Guardian.

Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant, says the radioactive core in the Unit 2 reactor appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on a concrete floor

----------


## coastie

> *Workers at Japan Nuke Plant 'Lost the Race' to Save Reactor, Expert Says*
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...r-expert-says/
> 
> Workers at the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant appeared to have "lost the race" to save one of the reactors, a U.S. expert told the Guardian.
> 
> Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant, says the radioactive core in the Unit 2 reactor appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on a concrete floor


Which in turn, will cause the other 5 reactors to melt down(from the inability to inhabit the site to try to effect repairs), along with their spent fuel pools.

Guess i should have jumped at the chance years ago to buy property with a bunker already on it...I hit water at 3 feet down in my yard now.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> *Workers at Japan Nuke Plant 'Lost the Race' to Save Reactor, Expert Says*
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...r-expert-says/
> 
> Workers at the crippled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant appeared to have "lost the race" to save one of the reactors, a U.S. expert told the Guardian.
> 
> Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant, says the radioactive core in the Unit 2 reactor appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on a concrete floor


*That has left officials struggling with two crucial but contradictory efforts: pumping in water to keep the fuel rods cool and pumping out contaminated water.*

Officials are hoping tanks at the complex will be able to hold the water, or that new tanks can be trucked in. On Tuesday, officials from the Nuclear Safety Commission, an expert panel of nuclear watchdogs, said other possibilities include digging a storage pit for the contaminated water, recycling it back into the reactors or even pumping it to an offshore tanker.

----------


## raiha

> Which in turn, will cause the other 5 reactors to melt down(from the inability to inhabit the site to try to effect repairs), along with their spent fuel pools.
> 
> Guess i should have jumped at the chance years ago to buy property with a bunker already on it...I hit water at 3 feet down in my yard now.



At least you won't get rickets. I'd rather be dead than live in a goddamn bunker. Wouldn't YOU?




> Like I had said previously in this thread, these accidents will be more of an economic disaster than a health disaster.


i wish I shared your optimism The State. This scares the bejayzus out of me. 

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/9...nuclear-plant/

----------


## pcosmar

> or even pumping it to an offshore tanker.


And then what?


Malon Export vessels?

----------


## raiha

The State...If plutonium is so heavy, what is it doing in Swedish soil? Don't get me wrong, I would love you to talk me into thinking that millions will not get cancer as a result of this nightmare.




> Chernobyl Fallout? Plutonium Found In Swedish Soil
> ScienceDaily (Oct. 2, 2008) — When a reactor in the Chernobyl nuclear power plant exploded in 1986 in what was then the Soviet republic of Ukraine, radioactive elements were released in the air and dispersed over the Soviet Union, Europe and even eastern portions of North America.
> 
> More than 20 years later, researchers from Case Western Reserve University traveled to Sweden and Poland to gain insight into the downward migration of Chernobyl-derived radionuclides in the soil. Among the team's findings was the fact that much more plutonium was found in the Swedish soil at a depth that corresponded with the nuclear explosion than that of Poland.
> 
> Radionuclides occur in soil both from natural processes and as fallout from nuclear testing.
> 
> Gerald Matisoff, chair of the department of geological sciences at Case Western Reserve University, Lauren Vitko, field assistant from Case Western Reserve, and others took soil samples in various locations in the two countries, measuring the presence and location of cesium (137Cs), plutonium (239, 240Pu), and lead (210Pbxs).
> 
> ...


Putonium got its name from Pluto - God of the Dead.

----------


## eduardo89

So how many hours does the reactor have left?

----------


## raiha

> And then what?
> 
> 
> Malon Export vessels?


Whassat?

----------


## kahless

> And then what?
> 
> 
> Malon Export vessels?






> Whassat?


LOL, I did not catch that right away until I saw your post.  The Malon are a race of species from the Delta Quadrant that use freighters to take radioactive waste from their home world and dump it in uninhabited space.  At least that is all I could come up with.

----------


## eduardo89

^^ nerd

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

^^ nerds rock!

----------


## kahless

> ^^ nerd


Then what else does "malon" stand for? I think that is what he means.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> At least you won't get rickets. I'd rather be dead than live in a goddamn bunker. Wouldn't YOU?


"It is better to be cold, hungry, wet, miserable, alive and living in a hole in the ground than well fed, warm, dry, comfortable and DEAD!" 

Looks like you have never made your own shelter from indigenous materials and spent the night in the middle of the wilderness.  Try it sometime - but get some training first!

-t

----------


## eduardo89

> Then what else does "malon" stand for? I think that is what he means.


I wouldn't know, I'm not a star trek nerd

----------


## TheState

> The State...If plutonium is so heavy, what is it doing in Swedish soil?


Thanks for finding that article, I had not see it before. I looked up the paper they published. With Chernobyl being an energetic release, it's more likely that very small Pu particles were launched into the atmosphere and that seems to be what the article is saying. It says no Pu was found in Poland, but only in Sweden, even though the cloud went over Poland first. They think it ended up in Sweden bc it rained around that same time. So the Pu particles were so small that they remained suspended until the rain. 

With Japan NOT being an energetic release, I would expect far less dispersion of Pu, even the smaller particles. (not saying some won't happen, but the quantities will be so small, it will have no effect). 




> Don't get me wrong, I would love you to talk me into thinking that millions will not get cancer as a result of this nightmare.


I can assure you millions will not get cancer of a result of this. The Chernobyl disaster, which was worse in so many aspects (energetic release, very poor evacuation, happened with the reactor at power so no time for decay, hundreds of thousands of "liquidators" at the site), had resulting cancers in the 10's of thousands, at most. 

It just takes A LOT of radiation to do damage to your body.


Also, in case the GE engineer is right and there has been a vessel melt through, I'll dig up some information on vessel melt through in a Mark I containment and corium-concrete interactions for you guys.

----------


## pcosmar

> I wouldn't know, I'm not a star trek nerd


It was my first thought on hearing about pumping Radioactive Waste water into tankers.

I was a nerd before nerds were cool.

----------


## raiha

> "It is better to be cold, hungry, wet, miserable, alive and living in a hole in the ground than well fed, warm, dry, comfortable and DEAD!" 
> 
> Looks like you have never made your own shelter from indigenous materials and spent the night in the middle of the wilderness.  Try it sometime - but get some training first!
> 
> -t


I have. I'm very outdoorzily inclined. But there's a difference between being in the wilderness and being in a catacomb! Forever! 




> LOL, I did not catch that right away until I saw your post. The Malon are a race of species from the Delta Quadrant that use freighters to take radioactive waste from their home world and dump it in uninhabited space. At least that is all I could come up with.


I bet they have shares in Tepco!

----------


## doodle

This could be not good for GE.

----------


## Texan4Life

> Also, in case the GE engineer is right and there has been a vessel melt through, I'll dig up some information on vessel melt through in a Mark I containment and corium-concrete interactions for you guys.


cool thx

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I have. I'm very outdoorzily inclined. But there's a difference between being in the wilderness and being in a catacomb! Forever!


It would depend on the company - hot and cuddly preferred....

----------


## raiha

> I can assure you millions will not get cancer of a result of this. The Chernobyl disaster, which was worse in so many aspects (energetic release, very poor evacuation, happened with the reactor at power so no time for decay, hundreds of thousands of "liquidators" at the site), had resulting cancers in the 10's of thousands, at most. 
> 
> It just takes A LOT of radiation to do damage to your body.


Trouble is, The State, how do we know? How are we able to trace a cancer directly to the radiation poisoning? We can't. The Chernobyl figure is debatable depending on who you talk to. You still have 5.7 million people living on irradiated land in that neck of the woods. It is not just cancer anyway: there is sterility, various thyroid diseases, and all sorts of malaise dating from exposure.

Then the stuff gets into your DNA and compromises future generations.

----------


## raiha

If this is true then I guess we can call it a melt-down.

I'm not very keen on him talking about LAVA!!!



> *The radioactive core in a reactor at the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant appears to have melted through the bottom of its containment vessel and on to a concrete floor, experts say,* raising fears of a major release of radiation at the site.
> 
> The warning follows an analysis by a leading US expert of radiation levels at the plant. Readings from reactor two at the site have been made public by the Japanese authorities and Tepco, the utility that operates it.
> 
> Richard Lahey, who was head of safety research for boiling-water reactors at General Electric when the company installed the units at Fukushima, told the Guardian workers at the site appeared to have "lost the race" to save the reactor, but said there was no danger of a Chernobyl-style catastrophe.
> 
> Workers have been pumping water into three reactors at the stricken plant in a desperate bid to keep the fuel rods from melting down, but the fuel is at least partially exposed in all the reactors.
> 
> At least part of the molten core, which includes melted fuel rods and zirconium alloy cladding, seemed to have sunk through the steel "lower head" of the pressure vessel around reactor two, Lahey said.
> ...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...uclear-reactor

----------


## raiha

> It would depend on the company - hot and cuddly preferred....


They get old and ugly (probably not fat under the circumstances) and then you are stuck with her.

----------


## RCA

So, what's the latest news, we're all $#@!ed?

----------


## raiha

> So, what's the latest news, we're all $#@!ed?


Tangent4RonPaul can't build a bunker, so he is definitely $#@!ed!

----------


## TheState

Here is some more info on vessel melt through in a Mark I

First, the diagram below shows vessel melt through in a Mark I and a steam explosion. Many feared that if water had collected below the reactor, when the breach occurred, the hot fuel would hit the cold water causing a steam explosion and possibly breaking the pedestal that the vessel sits on. As of right now, this does NOT seem to be the case in Japan. If a breach has occurred, it doesn't appear there was any following steam explosion, but I haven't heard anything specific about it. 

The other issue with the Mark I is that the molten fuel could run out of the pedestal region (through a door), and hit the containment wall. I'm not sure how valid that threat really is. 

(the light bulb looking thing is the inerted containment)


(here's a pic of that setup inside the reactor building)


Several things can happen once the fuel melts through.

First, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, the fuel could possibly take on an "uncoolable" geometry. This means that the fuel debris is so tightly packed that even if covered in water, the fuel will form a solid shell but stay molten inside the pile. 

Second, several gases could be formed:
- Hydrogen: If any of the clad hasn't yet oxidized 
- Carbon monoxide: from the carbon in the concrete
- Carbon dioxide: from carbon in the concrete

The problem there is that both hydrogen and carbon monoxide are combustible. Now if that containment is still inerted, that would prevent an explosion, but I'm not sure if that's the case now.

*So how does this change the release of Radionuclides?* 

For this, I will assume the inerted containment is breached also (I don't know if this is the case) and is compared to a situation where the vessel was previously not breached (which also may not have been the case).
- Bigger releases of I and Cs
- Bigger release of the Tellurium group elements
- Bigger release of the Cerium group (like Pu), but still a small fraction of the overall core inventory

One possible strategy to combat the melt through once it has happened is to just flood that part of containment.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> So, what's the latest news, we're all $#@!ed?


I'm sorry to say, but yes.  The news this morning is rather dire 

*Confidence Slips Away as Japan Battles Nuclear Peril*
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/30/wo...html?src=twrhp

...
a deluge of contaminated water, plutonium traces in the soil and an increasingly hazardous environment for workers at the plant have forced government officials to confront the reality that the emergency measures they have taken to keep nuclear fuel cool are producing increasingly dangerous side effects. And the prospect of restoring automatic cooling systems anytime soon is fading. 
...
The setbacks have raised questions about how long, and at what cost, Japan can keep up what experts call its “feed and bleed” strategy of cooling the reactor’ fuel rods with emergency infusions of water from the ocean and now from freshwater sources.

That cooling strategy, while essential to prevent full meltdowns, has released harmful amounts of radioactive steam into the atmosphere and set off leaks of highly contaminated water, making it perilous for some of the hundreds of workers at the plant to further critical repair work. 
...
Some of that water in the reactor structures also appears to be leaking out through damaged pipes or vessels, forming highly contaminated pools at the bottom of the turbine buildings adjacent to the reactors. On Tuesday, workers were forced to divert their attention to readying sandbags and pumps after the contaminated water was discovered in a tunnel leading close to the sea. 
...
While the source of the plutonium found at the plant was unclear, all three kinds of nuclear fuel at the complex could leak plutonium.

Fresh signs of radiation leaks have raised questions about the sustainability of the government’s feed-and-bleed approach.

One major problem...was that all the water the Japanese were spraying had soaked important machinery like generators and pumps, further hampering efforts to restore the reactors’ electricity supply. The use of helicopters in the first week to drop water on the rectors from above was especially ineffective in hitting the target and may have done more harm than good, he said.

“They dumped water all over the place,” he said. “They keep on generating more contamination. That’s the consequence of doing it. They got water on things that shouldn’t be wet.” 
...
though the fuel rods in the nuclear reactors had already lost over 99 percent of their heat, *they were still giving off enough heat to evaporate an estimated 200 tons of water a day.

And the remaining heat, from isotopes with long half-lives, will take years to cool. “They will just have to keep on pouring and pouring,” Mr. Sakashita said, “but contaminated water will keep leaking out.”*

“Handling this situation is getting increasingly difficult
...
Another hurdle workers face, of course, is to keep pumping enough water to cool the fuel rods, while at the same time trying to minimize the overflow of contaminated water. Tokyo Electric is also struggling to replace workers at the crippled plant, who must be cycled out as they approach a cumulative radiation exposure limit set by the Japanese government. 
...
The risks that *Japan could export its nuclear problems by allowing radioactive contaminants to get into the air and sea* are among the reasons why the government and Tokyo Electric have enlisted the help of experts from France, the United States and elsewhere to make sure conditions do not spiral out of control.

On Tuesday, Peter B. Lyons, a senior United States nuclear energy official, said the Energy Department was preparing a shipment to Japan of radiation-hardened robots, and the personnel to demonstrate how to use them.

In an *admission of how long the cooling process may take*, Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director general of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, Japan’s nuclear regulator, said late Tuesday: *“We will have to continue cooling for quite a long period. We should be thinking years.”*

Kuni Yogo, a former atomic energy policy planner in the Japan Science and Technology Agency, said: “There is some trial and error, but *this is the beginning of a three- to five-year effort.”* 

====
And there you have it - we can look forward to *YEARS* of radioactive fallout from this plant.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

A little back of the envelope:

  Assuming current rates of cooling, it looks like this plant will convert 87 Million gallons of water into radioactive steam and produce  504 Million gallons of radioactive water used to cool reactors #1-3 over the next 5 years.  That does not include water used to cool spent fuel rods in storage pools.

  latest: they are thinking of covering the reactors with a special cloth that catch radiation and spray the whole area with a kind of "glue" so radioactive material won't get picked up by the wind and sent airborne.

----------


## sparebulb

> latest: they are thinking of covering the reactors with a special cloth that catch radiation and spray the whole area with a kind of "glue" so radioactive material won't get picked up by the wind and sent airborne.


This is the first time I've heard of any plan whatsoever.  Maybe this is progress???

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

More "plan" sorta....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12908313

Water clear-up 'urgent' at reactor

...

the substantial quantities of contaminated water will have to be pumped away and "immobilised" - perhaps by locking it up in concrete, which would then be stored.

But he said workers urgently needed to contain a possible water leak in building 2. Radioactive-contaminated water has almost completely filled a tunnel system leading from the Unit 2 building.

The cause is unknown, but Mr Roulstone said it could be coming from the reactor's "torus" - an extension of the reactor's containment vessel where steam from the relief valves is allowed to condense.

"The indications are that either the torus or the pipes connecting it to the dry well containment around the reactor vessel have been breached," Mr Roulstone told BBC News.

"It seems the pressure from steam being relieved from the reactor was above its design pressure and that at some stage either that or a hydrogen explosion ruptured the torus or one of the connecting pipes."

"Now there seems to be water leaking out and causing these high levels of radioactivity."

If engineers cannot identify the precise source of the leak and seal it off, they will have to build a steel or concrete "surrounder" to catch the contaminated water. The water would then be piped away to another site for immobilisation.

Professor Laurence Williams, from the University of Central Lancashire, said contaminated water could also be passed through an ion exchange resin, which would reduce the radioactivity levels of the water.

Long-term outlook

According to unconfirmed press reports, Japanese experts are considering whether to drape the reactor buildings with a fabric to "reduce radiation".

This might refer to radioactivity from rods in the spent fuel ponds located at the top of the reactor buildings and to water in the turbine halls. Coverings could also simply be a measure to shield the interiors of the buildings from the weather.

n the longer term, the nuclear fuel will have to be transported away from the reactor sites and to dry stores elsewhere.

If the nuclear incident at Three Mile Island in the US is any guide, de-fuelling and cleaning up the reactors could take 4-5 years. A press report about the use of a sarcophagus - such as that used to enclose the doomed Chernobyl reactor - was wide of the mark, said Mr Roulstone.

Some of the nuclear fuel at the Fukushima plant will be intact, but some could be damaged, and this will need to be treated in a different way to the rest.

"They will have to think about how they will store that damaged fuel in containers. It will have to be stored for quite a long time," said Mr Roulstone, who spent several years working with the UK Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) and in industry.

Robots with remote cameras could be deployed to determine the state of the fuel rods.

Mr Roulstone explained: "In the reactor at Three Mile Island, quite a lot of the fuel cladding was melted. Instead of being in the form of ordered vertical rods, it had collected into a mass halfway down the vessel of molten zirconium and uranium fuel.

"They had to break that apart and take it away. That scenario is one end of the spectrum, but Three Mile Island showed they could do it."

At the other end of the spectrum, the fuel rods may simply have overheated and cracked, allowing fission products such as radioactive iodine and caesium out. But they will not have melted and will therefore be in roughly the same form as they were while the reactor was working.

Mr Roulstone said this latter scenario was compatible with the fission products measured so far, but said this could not be known until inspections were carried out.

After the fuel is taken away, workers will need to embark on the process of decontaminating the reactor vessels and the containment facilities.

====

umm, that and they are thinking about pumping the radioactive water out to a supertanker for storage till it can be dealt with.  They are producing a lot of that every day.

Right now they have to keep pumping in water to prevent a meltdown or the fuel rods catching on fire again in the pools, but they also need to pump out the very radioactive water so they can work in the plants.  ie: they are screwed!

next step is robots to find out what the situation really is, as they don't know.

they also have to replace a ton of equipment that got destroyed by seawater cooling.

----------


## AFPVet

One of the physicists on Fox News mentioned a couple weeks back that thy should've just covered the entire place with a boron/concrete mixture.

----------


## ds21089

Any new videos or are we supposed to take the word of the MSM for it?

----------


## acptulsa

HHK was talking about the 'resin', which is proposed for covering radioactive land on the site and (hopefully) retain the radioactive water.  And the 'tents' are alleged to be just as good as containing radiation as concrete; quicker.

----------


## Texan4Life

> latest: they are thinking of covering the reactors with a special cloth that catch radiation and spray the whole area with a kind of "glue" so radioactive material won't get picked up by the wind and sent airborne.


lol

in a recent development, the head engineer was over heard telling a foreman to abandon current attempts of getting the reactors under control. quote, "$#@!! it's not working... Alright Bob time for Operation Paper Mache"... "dammit Frank stop eating the glue!"

----------


## raiha

Anyone seen this over at ZH!!! 


*Smoke Rises from DIFFERENT Nuclear Complex ... 7 Miles from the Leaking Reactors* 
Submitted by George Washington on 03/30/2011 14:41 -0400

The 6 problem reactors which have gotten all of the press are located within the Fukushima Daiichi complex.

However, the same nuclear power plant operator that runs the Daiichi complex - Tepco - runs a separate nuclear complex 7 miles away, called Fukushima Daini. There are 4 reactors located at the Daini complex.

Unit 1
- At 8:19am, there was an alarm indicating that one of the control rods
was not properly inserted, however, at 10:43am the alarm was automatically
called off. Other control rods has been confirmed that they are fully
inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)

***

- At 6:08PM, we announced the increase in reactor containment vessel
pressure, assumed to be due to leakage of reactor coolant. However, we
do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel at this moment.

- At 5:22AM, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100
degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 5:22AM,
it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in article 15,
clause 1 has occurred.
(Article 15, Clause 1 of Japan's Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness simply provides that there are elevated radiation levels or that "an event specified by a Cabinet Order as an event that indicates the occurrence of a nuclear emergency situation has occurred.")

On March 14th, Reuters reported:

Tokyo Electric Power Co Inc said on Monday it had detected a rise in radiation levels at its Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant.

A company spokesman said that the cooling process at the plant has been working properly and that the rise was probably due to radiation leak at the nearby Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex, where cooling functions were damaged by Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami.

Today, Tepco announced that smoke was seen rising from Daini reactor number 1:

Smoke was spotted at another nuclear plant in northeastern Japan on Wednesday, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. 

 The company said smoke was detected in the turbine building of reactor No. 1 at the Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant around 6 p.m. (5 a.m. ET).

 Smoke could no longer be seen by around 7 p.m. (6 a.m. ET), a company spokesman told reporters.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Det...03207Z-FACTBOX

Details of Japan refinery, utilities and smelter shutdowns-FACTBOX

(long list)  

TEPCO 784 shut Fukushima-Daini (1) TEPCO 1,100 shut Fukushima-Daini (2) TEPCO 1,100 shut Fukushima-Daini (3) TEPCO 1,100 shut Fukushima-Daini

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Pressure cut at Japan's Daiichi-3 plant, similar operation planned at Daini
http://www.platts.com/RSSFeedDetaile...cPower/6903617

*13Mar2011/501 pm EDT/2101 GMT*

Tepco said in its latest statement that it also plans to implement measure to reduce pressure inside units 1, 2 and 3 its Fukushima Daini plant, not far from Fukushima Daiichi. The utility had reported earlier that cooling has also failed at the units.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72D4PY20110314
Tokyo Electric sees rise in radiation at Fukushima Daini plant

*Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:33am EDT*

A company spokesman said that the cooling process at the plant has been working properly and that the rise was probably due to radiation leak at the nearby Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex, where cooling functions were damaged by Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS...i_1403112.html
Cold shutdowns at Fukushima Daini 

*14 March 2011*

Two more reactors at Fukushima Daini have now achieved cold shutdown with full operation of cooling systems. Engineers are working for the same at the last unit. 

 The power plant's four boiling water reactors stopped automatically on last week's earthquake. At unit 3 the shutdown appears to have gone exactly as expected, with no systems damaged by the huge earthquake or tsunami. It went from power production to cold shutdown - where coolant water is at less than 100ºC - in about 34 hours.

 All the reactors have remained safe, but *damage to the emergency core cooling systems of units 1, 2 and 4* led to the announcement of emergency status. Those reactors used their a secondary system, the make up water condensate system, and this was used to maintain coolant levels above the reactor core. An additional emergency notice came from unit 1 concerning the temperature of a suppression chamber, which reached 100ºC after some time.

 The plant then continued in a relatively steady state throughout 12 March, with coolant levels always maintained but a high level of attention from engineers. Units 1, 2 and 4 were prepared for potential pressure release, but this was never required.

 In the last 48 hours, Tepco has carried out repairs to the emergency core coolant systems of units 1, 2 and 4 and one by one these have come back into action. Unit 1 announced cold shutdown at 1.24 am today and unit 2 followed at 3.52 am.

 Repairs at unit 4 are now complete and Tepco said that gradual temperature reduction started at 3.42pm. An evacuation zone extends to ten kilometres around the plant, but this is expected to be rescinded when all four units are verified as stable in cold shutdown conditions.

http://www.istockanalyst.com/busines...-tuesday-night
UPDATE1: Status of Fukushima nuclear power plants Tuesday night

*Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:07 PM*

-- Reactors No. 1, 2, 3, 4 (Operation suspended after quake)
Cold shutdown, not under emergency status.

http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/12579...hi-earthqu.htm
update from Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) on Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant.

*March 23, 2011 11:41 AM GMT*

1    * Reactor cold shutdown, stable water level, offsite power is   available

* No cooling water is leaked to the reactor containment vessel.

      * Maintain average water temperature at 100°C in the pressure restraint.

2    * Reactor cold shutdown, stable water level, offsite power is available.

       * No cooling water is leaked to the reactor containment vessel.

       * Maintain average water temperature at 100°C in the pressure restraint.

3    * Reactor cold shutdown, stable water level, offsite power is  available.

      * No cooling water is leaked to the reactor containment vessel.

      * Maintain average water temperature at 100°C in the pressure restraint.

4    * Reactor cold shutdown, stable water level, offsite power is available.

     * No cooling water is leaked to the reactor containment vessel.

     * Maintain average water temperature at 100°C in the pressure restraint.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/as....daini/?hpt=T2
Power company says smoke spotted at another Japanese nuclear plant

*March 30, 2011 -- Updated 1302 GMT (2102 HKT)*

Smoke was spotted at another nuclear plant in northeastern Japan on Wednesday, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

The company said smoke was detected in the turbine building of reactor No. 1 at the Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant around 6 p.m. (5 a.m. ET).

Smoke could no longer be seen by around 7 p.m. (6 a.m. ET), a company spokesman told reporters.

The Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant is about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant,

----------


## raiha

Next time I think I am having a bad day, i will think of the CEO of Fukushima Daiichi and that will make me feel better.

----------


## kahless

> Next time I think I am having a bad day, i will think of the CEO of Fukushima Daiichi and that will make me feel better.


Management should be behind bars.  It is not like they did not know this could happen and were just banking on never having a disaster.

----------


## osan

> I can assure you millions will not get cancer of a result of this.


I hope you are right, but Chernobyl was located in a fairly remote region, whereas Tokyo is home to 35 million people.  Now they have detected the release of plutonium.  This is significantly worse than anyone would want it to be.  It should prove interesting to see where else Pu may show up.  Hopefully nowhere, but I am not confident this will remain the case.

----------


## raiha

> Management should be behind bars.  It is not like they did not know this could happen and were just banking on never having a disaster.


It appears to me that the new elite is the management class. Modern business schools churn out people concerned with systems management in a homogenized manner. They figure things out on paper and it all works...on paper. They often do not own the company but manage it usually from some detached office. As a result the central managers know less and less about what the company actually does, while those with concrete experience and concrete responsibilites are squeezed into corporate models which have nothing to do with their production.

Mr. Masataka Shimizu has been serving as President and Representative Director of The Tokyo Electric Power Company, Inc. since June 2008. He is also serving as Vice Chairman of the Board in Nippon Keidanren. He joined the Company in April 1968. Mr. Shimizu's previous titles include Vice President, Director of Materials and Managing Director in the Company. He obtained his Bachelor's degree of Economics from Keio University in March 1968.
It does not look like he has any expertise in nuclear technology.

 This is the modern CEO disease. Like Tony Hayward.

These new elites -industrial and governmental are leeches and need to be expunged from the business world.
As John Ralston Saul so eloquently puts it. "The riches of the real capitalist - the owner manager - came from his ownership and his reinvestment in that ownership. He devoted himself to production. It is important to understand the desire for solidity of the average real capitalist in order to judge better the frenetic and aimless leaping about of the modern manager and speculator. These managers have now convinced themselves that profit is the essential nature of capitlism and that they are the new capitalists. Recently senior managers have gradually assumed all of of the capitalists' robes and begun to openly pay themselves as if they were the owners. The manager has entered so deeply into his imaginary role as a capitalist that he mistakes his personal profit for that of his company and mistakes the shareholders' prosperity for his own."

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...00740920110330

Smoke at second Fukushima plant finished - nuclear safety agency

Smoke seen at a second power plant in Fukushima was from a so-called electrical distribution board and has dispersed, Japan's nuclear safety body said on Wednesday.

The Daini plant is located several miles away from the stricken Daiichi power facility, where its operators have struggled against heating reactors and radiation leaks following a devastating earthquake that hit Japan earlier this month.

----------


## AFPVet

...and it never occurred to anyone that something could happen—like an earthquake—and that perhaps they should build in a more stable area and have multiple redundancies? So are they going to try to bury it or what?

----------


## raiha

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nucl...-1226027028746

Nuclear Energy Promoter Apologizes

The pro-nuclear chairman of Japan's atomic watchdog has called for a worldwide review of the nuclear energy industry after admitting that mistakes had been made in the design of the Fukushima power plant. 
In comments that will provide ammunition for anti-nuclear campaigners, Haruki Madarame said assumptions behind the building of the now dangerously radioactive nuclear plant had been wrong and global safety guidelines for the industry should be reconsidered.

His admission and accompanying apology represented a U-turn from an individual who has advised the Japanese government on nuclear matters for 30 years and chaired its Nuclear Safety Commission since April last year.

"As a person who promoted nuclear power, I have a personal feeling of apology," he said.

----------


## osan

> And there you have it - we can look forward to *YEARS* of radioactive fallout from this plant.


I smell here an opportunity, and we all know those must never go to waste.  Let us sit back and observe whether there shall be forthcoming some "forward looking" response from US or "global" authorities on the general issue.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.baycitizen.org/japan-disa...in-falling-us/




> Rain falling on the United States contains radioactive material from Japan at levels that *exceed federal safety thresholds.*
> 
> Federal officials on Tuesday urged calm in the wake of the discovery of iodine-131, which blew across the Pacific Ocean from the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant, in rainwater.
> 
> The tests that detected the radioactive material were conducted by the *Massachusetts* Department of Public Health and by nuclear power plant operators in *Pennsylvania*. 
> 
> *Test results for California have not yet been released, so it's impossible to assess the exact dangers here*. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency plans to publish those results within the next day or so, according to Mike Bandrowski, chief of indoor air and radiation for the EPA's Region 9, which includes California.
> 
> Government *officials for weeks have been downplaying* the likely health effects of the radioactive fallout on Californians.
> ...


"Likely"? One would think they would have this down to a science

----------


## s35wf

Today in Florida there is major thunderstorms & tornado warnings.  im sure our water is polluted, however no news on radiation here.  Terrible storms today.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...ble-die-weeks/




> Meanwhile, bad weather has delayed TEPCO's plans to limit the spread of radiation from the plant. It has intended to spray a water-soluble resin to affix radioactive particles and substances to the debris sent scattered across the devastated complex to prevent it from being dispersed by wind and moisture. 
> 
> It will now attempt on Friday test the synthetic solution using remote control vehicles to spray an area of 95,000 square yards at reactors four and six. The company hopes the resin will provide sufficient protection to allow restoration workers better access to areas critical to restoring the reactors' cooling systems to prevent a meltdown.
> 
> Growing pools of dangerously radioactive water and deposits of plutonium have been inhibiting access to important parts of the plant.
> 
> *A large sea tanker is also being prepared to siphon and ship the water from the plant after it was discovered that run-off containers and drainage tanks were almost full at three of the most critical reactors*.
> 
> The government says it has yet to be decided where they will dispose of that water.


"after it was discovered"???  One would think they would have this down to a science...

----------


## libertyjam

> http://www.baycitizen.org/japan-disa...in-falling-us/
> 
> 
> 
> "Likely"? One would think they would have this down to a science


He can't say that unless he states exactly what the material contaminants are the tests are detecting.

----------


## ds21089

> Today in Florida there is major thunderstorms & tornado warnings.  im sure our water is polluted, however no news on radiation here.  Terrible storms today.


Yeah, I'm in Miami and I walked outside into it and was thinking to myself, "Oh God, radioactive air. Quick! To the Batmobile!"

----------


## ds21089

http://www.wikileaks.ch/cable/2006/03/06TOKYO1592.html  Wow.. If only that went through all of this would've been avoided.

----------


## Anti Federalist

*Japan's Nuclear Rescuers: 'Inevitable Some of Them May Die Within Weeks'*
By Dominic Di-Natale

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...ble-die-weeks/

Published March 31, 2011
| FoxNews.com

Workers at the disaster-stricken Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan say they expect to die from radiation sickness as a result of their efforts to bring the reactors under control, the mother of one of the men tells Fox News.

The so-called Fukushima 50, the team of brave plant workers struggling to prevent a meltdown to four reactors critically damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, are being repeatedly exposed to dangerously high radioactive levels as they attempt to bring vital cooling systems back online.

Speaking tearfully through an interpreter by phone, the mother of a 32-year-old worker said: “My son and his colleagues have discussed it at length and they have committed themselves to die if necessary to save the nation.

“He told me they have accepted they will all probably die from radiation sickness in the short term or cancer in the long-term.”

The woman spoke to Fox News on the condition of anonymity because, she said, plant workers had been asked by management not to communicate with the media or share details with family members in order to minimize public panic.

----------


## huckans

Bloomsburg University's (in NE Penn) where I teach/research just completed its assessment of the I-131 concentrations in recent local rainwater.  The results are:  1700 disintegration counts in 22 hours = 5.4 Bequerels (0.004 detection efficiency).  This equals 0.19 picoCuries.  The sample size was 3 liters.  Therefore the overall radiation concentration was 6.6 x 10^(-2) picoCuries per liter.  This can then be converted into Sievets (metric).  Iodine-131 has a half life of 8 days and should not be detected normally.  Its characteristic spike at 364 keV was well above the background radiation.  What we measured was undoubtedly from Fukushima--however, it should be noted that there is no danger at these low levels.

----------


## TheState

> Bloomsburg University's (in NE Penn) where I teach/research just completed its assessment of the I-131 concentrations in recent local rainwater.  The results are:  1700 disintegration counts in 22 hours = 5.4 Bequerels (0.004 detection efficiency).  This equals 0.19 picoCuries.  The sample size was 3 liters.  Therefore the overall radiation concentration was 6.6 x 10^(-2) picoCuries per liter.  This can then be converted into Sievets (metric).  Iodine-131 has a half life of 8 days and should not be detected normally.  Its characteristic spike at 364 keV was well above the background radiation.  What we measured was undoubtedly from Fukushima--however, it should be noted that there is no danger at these low levels.


Awesome! Thanks for update!

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tion-leak.html




> Spokesman Naoyuki Matsumo says the elevated levels of iodine-131 were measured in groundwater 15 meters underneath one of six reactors at the plant.
> 
> It comes after Japan finally conceded defeat in the battle to contain radiation at four of Fukushima's crippled reactors. They will now be shut down.
> 
> Details of how this will be done are yet to be revealed, but officials said it would mean *switching off all power and abandoning attempts to keep the nuclear fuel rods cool.*
> 
> The final move would involve pouring tonnes of concrete on the reactors to seal them in tombs and ensure radiation does not leak out.

----------


## nc4rp

wont it leach into the ground and water no matter how much concrete they put on top? its an unbelieveable devastating catastrophe. Japan is DONE.

----------


## raiha

If you put seawater on the rods it increases the caesium (in a you tube I will try to find).

----------


## steph3n

> its an unbelieveable devastating catastrophe. Japan is DONE.



right....... 

oh the drama of some of you.

this is a serious situation no doubt but Japan is not 'done', get a grip on yourself and emotions.

----------


## raiha

> Bloomsburg University's (in NE Penn) where I teach/research just completed its assessment of the I-131 concentrations in recent local rainwater.  The results are:  1700 disintegration counts in 22 hours = 5.4 Bequerels (0.004 detection efficiency).  This equals 0.19 picoCuries.  The sample size was 3 liters.  Therefore the overall radiation concentration was 6.6 x 10^(-2) picoCuries per liter.  This can then be converted into Sievets (metric).  Iodine-131 has a half life of 8 days and should not be detected normally.  Its characteristic spike at 364 keV was well above the background radiation.  What we measured was undoubtedly from Fukushima--however, it should be noted that there is no danger at these low levels.


What about Caesium 137?

As the New York Times notes, radioactive cesium is the main danger from the Japanese nuclear accident:

 Over the long term, the big threat to human health is cesium-137, which has a half-life of 30 years.

 At that rate of disintegration, John Emsley wrote in Natures Building Blocks (Oxford, 2001), it takes over 200 years to reduce it to 1 percent of its former level.

It is cesium-137 that still contaminates much of the land in Ukraine around the Chernobyl reactor.

The milk would not taste too good if you keep it in your fridge for 30 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSBYF...eature=related

----------


## armstrong

so in time, when all the water aquifers are contaminated and food is contaminated where do 200 million people go ....china no, Russia no, korea no ----canada and USA thats where....hmmm wonder how that will help are unemployed....

----------


## raiha

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/d.../chernobyl.htm


"Fallout from the Chernobyl explosion included radioactive cesium, strontium, plutonium and iodine. Of particular consequence to the Sámi was the large amount of the cesium 137 isotope released, which has a half-life of 30 years, meaning it loses half its radioactivity through decay every 30 years. *Cesium 137 was carried by wind and spring rain patterns in high concentrations to central Sweden and Norway while the north received lower levels, and Finland and areas of southern and western Scandinavia were spared. Within days, Swedish and Norwegian scientists measured dangerous levels of cesium in the atmosphere.* Cesium 137 intruded into Sámi life foremost by contaminating their food supplies. Through rainfall following the explosion, radioactive fallout permeated freshwater lakes and inland forests, thereby contaminating fish, wild game, berries and other plants (Stephens, 1995). Most detrimental was the contamination of lichen, the main winter staple of Scandinavias reindeer. Lichens have no root system so they extract nutrients directly from the air, thereby acting as virtual radioactive sponges, absorbing incredible amounts of airborne cesium 137 and passing it straight onto the deer. Lichen is an extremely slow-growing plant, taking 30 years to regrow completely (Vitebsky). Thus, radioactivity in affected lichen may not drop to safe levels short of 20 to 30 years after contamination. The effects of the contaminated lichen were not fully realized until after the first post-Chernobyl autumn slaughter season; then scientists began to measure levels of radioactivity in slaughtered reindeer.


Radioactive cesium 137 is measured in bequerels (Bq), a unit of radioactive measurement representing one nuclear disintegration per second (Stephens, 1987). The Chernobyl explosion permeated the atmosphere with billions of bequerels of radioactive material. Following the autumn 1986 slaughtering season, the Swedish and Norwegian governments were quick to jump in and regulate the meat industry by instituting bequerel safety levels and offering compensation to affected herders, albeit recommendations and guidelines varied from country to country."

----------


## s35wf

and here locally in FL a little blurb on abc 11:00 news stating that milk is tainted with low levels of radiation in 20 states here in the US.  (they didn't mention which states, just said 20 states mostly on west coast???).

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> and here locally in FL a little blurb on abc 11:00 news stating that milk is tainted with low levels of radiation in 20 states here in the US.  (they didn't mention which states, just said 20 states mostly on west coast???).


I'm finding: Spokane, Wash. and San Luis Obispo County, Calif.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tion-leak.html





> It comes after Japan finally conceded defeat in the battle to contain radiation at four of Fukushima's crippled reactors. They will now be shut down.
> 
> Details of how this will be done are yet to be revealed, but officials said *it would mean switching off all power and abandoning attempts to keep the nuclear fuel rods cool.*
> 
> The final move would involve pouring tonnes of concrete on the reactors to seal them in tombs and ensure radiation does not leak out.


I have not seen anything that confirms this.  Yes, the 4 reactors will be shut down, but that's supposed to be because they are basically totalled and the seawater damage as well as radiation contamination.

 The article also said right after that:




> In admitting that four of the troubled reactors would have to be shut down for good, he left no doubt in the minds of observers that he knew the battle to keep their fuel rods cool could not be won.


That sounds like speculation to me.

Also note that the US is sending radiation hardened robots and this article from today talks about the plant having radiation spikes causing work to stop again today:

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...,5950026.story

btw: good AP photo from a drone of the site at that link

Anyway, they were trying to hook up cooling pumps when that happened.  Clearly, they have not given up.

You also have to ask how they would bury the plant in cement.  If you stop cooling it, you get full meltdowns and the storage pools catch fire and kick out tons of radiation - meaning no one can get near the place.  How do you bury something you can't get near?  Makes no sence to me.

How did they do Chernobyl?  It seems like that would take quite a while to do.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

French seek to drop probe into Chernobyl fallout

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...9a53ceaf667bb1

PARIS (AP)  A French prosecutor wants to drop a decade-long investigation into the fallout in France from the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear accident, citing lack of proof that it caused health problems.

The prosecutor argued in a Paris hearing Thursday that the probe has been inconclusive and should be abandoned, according to a judicial official. *The official was not authorized to be named because the hearing was closed to the public.*
...
Researchers and cancer victims *accuse the government of downplaying the effects of the Chernobyl explosion, partly to protect France's powerful nuclear industry.* A few dozen people, including thyroid disease victims, staged a protest Thursday near the courthouse.

*French authorities have been widely ridiculed for insisting after the Chernobyl accident that the radiation did not reach France, though neighboring countries all said it passed through their skies. Other European countries pulled milk from shelves or recommended that children take iodine tablets to reduce radiation risks, while France took none of these steps.*

French government agencies have adjusted some of their initial radiation estimates since the accident, but deny any intentional deception.
...
Since the Japanese nuclear troubles began, *French nuclear safety authorities have taken pains to soothe the French public about potential risks*, holding daily press conferences for two weeks after the tsunami.
...

====

Sound familiar?

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7ES10P20110401

...

Workers hope to transfer the water to the reactors' surface condensors, which are circulatory systems of pipes of tanks . But to do so, they must first empty the water already inside the condensors, but existing storage tanks have been filled or damaged by the tsunami.

The challenge is to empty more of the contaminated water than is leaking out from the reactors, while preventing further flows into the sea and soil. Five days of pumping in the basement of the No.1 reactor lowered the water level by only a little, before the condensor filled up.

HOW LONG MIGHT THIS TAKE?

Nobody knows. The most likely scenario is a long, drawn-out fight, with incremental progress interrupted by emergency cooling measures and spikes in radioactivity. 

Once the pumps and the residual heat removal systems are running, it would take only a couple days to bring the reactors to a cold shutdown.

Work is also slow because engineers are literally working in the dark, hampered by broken pipes, debris and flooded equipment. Lights have only recently gone on in the control rooms, but electrically powered monitors and gauges -- the workers' eyes and ears inside the reactor -- are still off, as are the lights in the dangerous basements.

Judging from the levels of radiation around the plant, at least one reactor core went into a partial meltdown and the byproducts are still leaking out from damage to the containment structure(s). That could mean that bringing all reactors to a cold shutdown could take months to minimize the exposure to workers.

WHAT ARE THE RISKS?

The main risk comes from the radiation that could continue to seep, or burst, out each time a pipe leaks or rising pressure forces workers to vent steam. Leaking water from within the nuclear pressure vessels could find their way into the soil and the ocean, while spikes in radiation could contaminate crops over a wide area.

The risk that the spent fuel pools could go into a chain reaction is low, as long as temperature indicators are accurate. But some of the contaminated runoff may have to be dumped into the sea, if workers run out of space to store the water.

There is also a small risk of a corium steam explosion, particularly in the No.1 reactor, which is the plant's oldest and which is believed to have a weak spot. If workers are unable to continue hosing operations, and if the nuclear fuel manages to melt through the bottom of the reactor and fall into a water pool below, this would result in a burst of high temperature and a sudden release of a huge amount of hydrogen that could breach the containment vessel.

Should either worst-case scenario happen, high levels of radiation up to 20 km (12 miles) around the site could be dispersed, making it impossible to bring the reactors to a cold shutdown without great sacrifice.

WILL THE SITE BECOME A NO-MAN'S LAND?

Most likely, yes. Even after a cold shutdown there are tonnes of nuclear waste sitting at the site of the nuclear reactors. Enclosing the reactors by injecting lead and encasing them in concrete would make it safe to work and live a few kilometres away from the site, but is not a long-term solution for the disposal of spent fuel, which will decay and emit fission fragments over several thousand years.

The spent nuclear fuel in Fukushima has been damaged by sea water, so recycling it is probably not an option, while transporting it elsewhere is unlikely given the opposition that proposal would bring. Experts say the clean-up will take decades. 

...

----------


## kahless

> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7ES10P20110401
> 
> .....long-term solution for the disposal of spent fuel, which will decay and emit fission fragments over several thousand years........ Experts say the clean-up will take decades. 
> 
> ...


Therefore ensuring perpetual tax servitude to pay for it for generations to come.  Isn't nuclear power wonderful.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Worst case scenario may be here. Open air nuclear reactions may be occurring now in melted fuel piles. Apparently it puts out a nice blue glow.

----------


## puppetmaster

> Worst case scenario may be here. Open air nuclear reactions may be occurring now in melted fuel piles. Apparently it puts out a nice blue glow.


Lucky us

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Worst case scenario may be here. Open air nuclear reactions may be occurring now in melted fuel piles. Apparently it puts out a nice blue glow.


I'm not seeing that yet...

I did find this:

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories...id=596262&vId=




> *Pontoon to hold Japan nuke plant water*
> Updated: 04:53, Saturday April 2, 2011
> 
> The operator of Japan's disaster-stricken nuclear power plant plans to use a huge steel floating structure to contain radioactive water it releases.
> 
> The pontoon-type structure which can hold a maximum of 18,000 tonnes of water will be handed over to Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) by its owner which has been using it as a floating park for anglers, officials said on Friday.
> 
> Called a 'Mega-Float', it measures 136 metres long, 46 metres wide and three metres high and can hold up to 10,000 tonnes of water without sinking. It is owned by the Pacific coast city of Shimizu southwest of Tokyo.
> 
> ...


Strange that the article states it can hold 18,000 tonnes, yet only 10,000 without sinking... And how long does it take them to go through 10k tonnes of water anyway?

This is a pic of the Mega-float that I grabbed off the city's tourism site



I'm guessing that pool wont need heating... Does anyone else think this may not be a wise move...

----------


## Brian4Liberty

I first saw it on Fox. Found this article. Is "localized criticality" a newly created term?




> International nuclear experts believe that melted fuel in reactor No. 1 has caused a "localized criticality," which is a small, uncontrolled chain reaction that occasionally emits a burst of heat, radiation and a blue flash of light.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=13271759

----------


## devil21

> Worst case scenario may be here. Open air nuclear reactions may be occurring now in melted fuel piles. Apparently it puts out a nice blue glow.


Neat pic of the blue glow of rods here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigal71/3995391789/

----------


## Brian4Liberty

This pump should have been prepped and sent the day after the quake...the Chernobyl solution.




> There are only three such pumps in the world and only two of those are ideally suited for the type of work that is necessary in Japan. After modifications are made in South Carolina the pump will be shipped to Atlanta’s Hartsfield International Airport and put aboard a Russian made Antonov 225 for the flight to Fukushima. The Antonov 225 is the largest cargo plane in the world. Putzmeister has already been involved in the disaster at the Japan nuclear reactor as their pumping equipment has been used for watering the reactors. The pump for concrete that is being shipped to Japan can pump 210 cubic yards of concrete per hour.
> 
> http://www.viscosimedia.com/20110401...n-at-fukushima

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> I first saw it on Fox. Found this article. Is "localized criticality" a newly created term?





> This pump should have been prepped and sent the day after the quake...the Chernobyl solution.


Thank you

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ion-rises.html




> “The reactors are stopped, so it’s hard to imagine re- criticality,” occurring, Tsuyoshi Makigami, a spokesman for the utility, told a news conference today.
> 
> A partial meltdown of fuel in the No. 1 reactor building may be causing isolated reactions, Denis Flory, nuclear safety director for the IAEA, said at a press conference in Vienna. This might increase the danger to workers at the site.
> 
> Nuclear experts call such reactions “localized criticality.” They consist of a burst of heat, radiation and sometimes an “ethereal blue flash,” according to the U.S. Energy Department’s Los Alamos National Laboratory website. Twenty-one workers worldwide have been killed by criticality accidents since 1945, the site said.
> 
> The IAEA acknowledged “they don’t have clear signs that show such a phenomenon is happening,” Edano said.

----------


## specsaregood

> This pump should have been prepped and sent the day after the quake...the Chernobyl solution.


Sorry, but our administration was too busy demanding longterm concessions from the japanese at that point in time, they couldn't be hassled with trying to help clean up the mess first.  Come on.

----------


## ds21089

Anyone know stores which may have Potassium Iodide? I've tried CVS, Walgreens, Vitamin World, Vitamin Shoppe (only had crazy expensive liquid which would take like $60 a person), whole foods market were the only people whom said they carry it but are out of stock.

I live in Miami and we dont have Rite Aid >.>

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> Tsuyoshi Makigami, a spokesman for the utility


i.e. professional liar.

----------


## Carson

Remember the story early on of drones being sent to take pictures?

Well I just saw on fark a link to some of them in hi resolution.

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-...chi-photos.htm


Link to the fark comments like, "If you right-click -> 'View Image', the actual pictures are even larger than what's presented on the site."

http://www.fark.com/comments/6080734...r-plant-damage

I was looking earlier for the top of the #3 reactor core. I was thinking maybe in the hole of the roof of the building next to it where you can see the electrical box and conduit through the hole.

Back to searching in the larger pictures.

----------


## Carson

This Fark story was also a real eye opener. In other words, *very sobering*.

*25 years after Chernobyl, German wild boar meat still described as "radioactive," "extraordinarily tasty"*

Germany's radioactive boars a legacy of Chernobyl
AP

By JUERGEN BAETZ, Associated Press Juergen Baetz, Associated Press – Fri Apr 1, 5:41 am ET

BERLIN – For a look at just how long radioactivity can hang around, consider Germany's wild boars.

A quarter century after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in the Soviet Union carried a cloud of radiation across Europe, these animals are radioactive enough that people are urged not to eat them. And the mushrooms the pigs dine on aren't fit for consumption either.

Germany's experience shows what could await Japan — if the problems at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant get any worse.

The German boars roam in forests nearly 950 miles (1,500 kilometers ) from Chernobyl. Yet, the amount of radioactive cesium-137 within their tissue often registers dozens of times beyond the recommended limit for consumption and thousands of times above normal.

"We still feel the consequences of Chernobyl's fallout here," said Christian Kueppers, a radiation expert at Germany's Institute for Applied Ecology in Freiburg.

"The contamination won't go away any time soon — with cesium's half-l

Snip....

Link to the actual story;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_germany_radioactive_boars


Link to actual Fark comments on the actual story;

http://www.fark.com/comments/6080413...dinarily-tasty

----------


## Carson

> Anyone know stores which may have Potassium Iodide? I've tried CVS, Walgreens, Vitamin World, Vitamin Shoppe (only had crazy expensive liquid which would take like $60 a person), whole foods market were the only people whom said they carry it but are out of stock.
> 
> I live in Miami and we dont have Rite Aid >.>


I saw this thread a while back.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...10#post3176410

Or you could check here. ( P.S. You may want to wait some. A equivalent bottle was about 2 to 5 bucks a couple of months ago, I think. It looks like their liquid comes with decent dropper though.)

http://www.nukepills.com/potassium-iodide.htm



I think it is easy to make. I would think it should start showing locally very soon.

I suppose if your going to experiment with it now is the time for a controlled experiment. There is a long shot that it might do a little good. Besides the time may come when it really may help and you don't want to be wondering if the side reactions are the Potassium Iodide or actual radiation symptoms.

I noticed one thing with the eye droppers that come in some of the bottles. They are more like a turkey baster than something you would get a controlled sized drop.

Try a Google shopping search?

----------


## Carson

> wont it leach into the ground and water no matter how much concrete they put on top? its an unbelieveable devastating catastrophe. Japan is DONE.


I think I remember reading about miners mining underneath Chernobyl for a concrete foundation. 

If covering the mess in concrete is the best we can do, I would think you would want to start with the sarcophagus as the foundation the plant was built on. Then again the method sure does leave us with a hard to work with mess for later.

----------


## Carson

Back in the forefront on fark. Another story.

*Emergency workers at Fukushima nuclear plant fully expect to die within a few weeks or months as they try to stop meltdown. In related story, subby was too afraid to step on spider in bathroom this morning*

Actual story;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42371032...fic/?GT1=43001

Fark comments;

http://www.fark.com/comments/6081265...m-this-morning

----------


## osan

> I'm not seeing that yet...
> 
> I did find this:
> 
> http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories...id=596262&vId=
> 
> 
> 
> Strange that the article states it can hold 18,000 tonnes, yet only 10,000 without sinking... And how long does it take them to go through 10k tonnes of water anyway?
> ...



Lessee... 10K tons of water ~= 13K cu. yards.  OK, it's filled.  Now what?

These $#@!ers need to be shot.  Every last one of them.

----------


## Carson

Then there is the fark Tomaco thread.

*Japanese farmers brace for bumper tomaco crop*

Article;

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/01/135023...medium=twitter

Thread;

http://www.fark.com/comments/6080503...er-tomaco-crop

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

JAIF updates
*FUKUSHIMA Daichi Power Plant*




> ●* Progress of the work to recover injection function*
> Water injection to the reactor pressure vessel by temporally installed pumps were switched from seawater to freshwater at Unit 1, 2 and 3.
> High radiation circumstance hampering the work to restore originally installed pumps for injection.* Discharging radioactive water in the basement of the buildings of Unit 1 through 3 continue to improve this situation. To find a place the water to go becomes a problem.*
> 
> ● *Function of containing radioactive material*
> It is presumed that radioactive material inside the reactor vessel may leaked outside at Unit 1, 2 and Unit 3, based on radioactive material found outside. NISA announced that the reactor pressure vessel of Unit 2 and 3 may have lost airtightness because of low pressure inside the pressure vessel. NISA told that it is unlikely that these are cracks or holes in the reactor pressure vessels at the same occation.
> 
> ● *Cooling the spent fuel pool*
> Steam like substance rose intermittently from the reactor building at Unit 1, 2, 3 and 4 has been observed. Injecting and/or spraying water to the spent fuel pool has been conducted.
> ...


*FUKUSHIMA Dai-ni Power Plant*




> Unit-1, 2, 3 & 4, which were in full operation when the earthquake occurred, all shutdown automatically.
> 
> External power supply was available after the quake. While injecting water into the reactor pressure vessel using make-up water system, TEPCO recovered the core
> cooling function and made the unit into cold shutdown state one by one.
> *Latest Monitor Indication: 4.7μSv/h at 15:00, Apr. 1st at NPS border
> Evacuation Area: 10km from NPS*


 Today's NHK NEWS Report

●* TEPCO reprimanded over sloppy radiation checks*



> Japan's nuclear safety agency has reprimanded Tokyo Electric Power Company
> over its failure to ensure the safety of workers at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear
> power plant due to shortages of radiation monitors.
> Some teams of workers had to share a radiation monitor, although they are
> supposed to have one each. Many monitors stopped working after the massive
> quake.
> The agency told reporters on Friday that the practice is problematic. It instructed
> the plant operator to make sure that workers are able to check radiation levels.
> TEPCO told the agency that it has obtained 420 radiation monitors so far. The
> ...


*
● Program errors force TEPCO to review all data*



> Tokyo Electric Power Company says it will review all data on radiation leaked
> from the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, citing errors in a computer
> program.
> *The utility says it found errors in the program used to analyze radioactive
> elements and their levels,* after some experts noted that radiation levels of leaked
> water inside the plant were too high.
> The company and the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency say
> previously released data may have shown the levels of tellurium-129 and
> molybdenum-99 to be higher than they really were.
> ...


*
● Radiation in seawater at new high*



> *Radiation 4,385 times higher than the legal standard has been detected in
> seawater at a location 330 meters south of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi
> nuclear plant.*
> Tokyo Electric Power Company says 180 becquerels per cubic centimeter of
> radioactive iodine-131 have been detected in seawater sampled on Wednesday
> afternoon.
> 
> *The figure is far above the 3,355-times level detected on Tuesday.
> Wednesday's sampling also revealed cesium-137, which has a half-life of 30
> ...

----------


## Carson

Picture of Fukushima #3 storage pool.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...torage-pool-at

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Anyone know stores which may have Potassium Iodide? I've tried CVS, Walgreens, Vitamin World, Vitamin Shoppe (only had crazy expensive liquid which would take like $60 a person), whole foods market were the only people whom said they carry it but are out of stock.
> 
> I live in Miami and we dont have Rite Aid >.>


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...active+fallout

----------


## Carson

> I'm not seeing that yet...
> 
> I did find this:
> 
> http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories...id=596262&vId=
> 
> 
> 
> Strange that the article states it can hold 18,000 tonnes, yet only 10,000 without sinking... And how long does it take them to go through 10k tonnes of water anyway?
> ...


One of those tsunami proof Gilligan's island's?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> This Fark story was also a real eye opener. In other words, *very sobering*.
> 
> *25 years after Chernobyl, German wild boar meat still described as "radioactive," "extraordinarily tasty"*
> 
> By JUERGEN BAETZ, Associated Press Juergen Baetz, Associated Press – Fri Apr 1, 5:41 am ET
> 
> BERLIN For a look at just how long radioactivity can hang around, consider Germany's wild boars.
> 
> A quarter century after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in the Soviet Union carried a cloud of radiation across Europe, these animals are radioactive enough that people are urged not to eat them. And the mushrooms the pigs dine on aren't fit for consumption either.
> ...


At risk of being repetitive, the concentration of radiation in the food chain is a major problem, and it may not be limited to Japan...

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

From the Fukushima Earthquakes, Japan has slipped 2.5+ meters down and east into the Pacific Ocean. ESA's high resolution Advanced Synthetic Aperture Radar across 15 spectrums and additionally infrared bans, gathered the data. These reactor plants are doomed.

check it out there's also high res downloads from ESA.

http://www.esa.int/esaEO/SEM9PL6UPLG_environment_1.html

*Earth movements from Japan earthquake seen from space*
 


Envisat  Advanced Synthetic Aperture Radar coseismic interferogram from  descending track 347, processed by JPL/Caltech ARIA project. Data  acquired on 19 February and 21 March 2011, spanning the main shock of  the magnitude 9 earthquake and several aftershocks that occurred in  Japan on 11 March 2011 and the following days (until 21 March). One  colour cycle represents 50 cm of motion in the satellite line of sight  (approximately east at 41 degrees from the vertical), i.e. about 35 cm  of motion on the ground. The seismicity plot is from the US Geological  Survey.  Credits: Based on ESA data - JPL/Caltech ARIA project (E. Fielding,  Principal Scientist JPL/Caltech; S. Yun, Research Scientist JPL/Caltech;  P. Agram, KISS Postdoctoral Fellow Caltech)


A  map of the terrain displacement based on Envisat Advanced Synthetic  Aperture Radar of the earthquakes that struck Japan beginning on 11  March 2011.  The map is derived from an interferogram generated by INGV  using data acquired on 19 February and 21 March 2011 on track 347.   The map shows a large portion of the surface displacement field. The  maximum displacement along the Line Of Sight (of the satellite) reaches  about 2.5 m relative to a reference point within the entire frame strip  located nearby the southern boundary. 
 

Download:
 *HI-RES JPEG* (Size: 361 kb) GPS  measurements of the coseismic displacement of the Japan earthquake on  11 March 2011 by GEONET (reference provided by Prof. Hashimoto). This  displacement chart shows the direction of ground movement. This type of  in-situ data can be found on the GeoHazard Supersites web site. 

Credits: GEONET

----------


## huckans

A few posts back I mentioned that the physics department at Bloomsburg Univ  (NE Penn) where I work had made its first I-131 measurements.  Cs-137 will be the next threat.  The rule of thumb in nuclear response is to first worry about the I-131, then the Cs-137.  Because of its higher specific activity and greater volatility, the I-131 is almost always the greater concern initially.  In addition it also goes through the food chain more rapidly and is taken up (concentrated) by only one organ in the body, the thyroid.  After it has been greatly reduced, then the next concerns are the longer lived radionuclides such as Cs-137 and Sr-90 that will be around for a long time.  We are already talking about what we might do in the area to collect samples of food that could be tested.  Due to the large population of Amish farmers in the area, we should have access to a wide variety of crops that have been grown locally and can be tested.

----------


## Carson

> At risk of being repetitive, the concentration of radiation in the food chain is a major problem, and it may not be limited to Japan...


I heard a report this morning it was showing up in milk along the west coast. I think it was Oregon. Very small amount.

I don't like the comparison of radiation levels when people compare a level to like on a plane trip to something like the level found in food. To me it is very different if it is from the sun, or a camp fire, or standing next to some bananas. Once you've eaten the bananas or drank the milk or whatever the radiation is shooting from the inside out. If your body uses it to build a molecule with it radiates out from a fixed point. Very different to me in the scheme of things.

----------


## kahless

> I heard a report this morning it was showing up in milk along the west coast. I think it was Oregon. Very small amount.
> 
> I don't like the comparison of radiation levels when people compare a level to like on a plane trip to something like the level found in food. To me it is very different if it is from the sun, or a camp fire, or standing next to some bananas. Once you've eaten the bananas or drank the milk or whatever the radiation is shooting from the inside out. If your body uses it to build a molecule with it radiates out from a fixed point. Very different to me in the scheme of things.


Depending on what you get exposed to the worse case will be it will just keep giving off radiation inside you exponentially increasing your exposure.

My brother tells me his meter has been spiking on the higher end of normal for background radiation than he is used to seeing.  For kicks I took the meter put it near a batch of bananas and it did not even register.  So the banana thing is not much of comparision since we are getting far more radiation than that.

----------


## Carson

> Depending on what you get exposed to the worse case will be it will just keep giving off radiation inside you exponentially increasing your exposure.
> 
> My brother tells me his meter has been spiking on the higher end of normal for background radiation than he is used to seeing.  For kicks I took the meter put it near a batch of bananas and it did not even register.  So the banana thing is not much of comparision since we are getting far more radiation than that.


Are you guys having other fun with it or discoveries? 

I have looked into getting one several times but I never could decide on the best range meter amongst other things.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Camera to scope possible radiation leak into water from nuclear plant

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...lear.reactors/

...
Data from eight new monitoring posts around the plant showed that airborne radiation levels had stabilized, at between .390 and .0019 millisieverts *per hour*, a utility company official noted Saturday. This is far below the 400 millisievert-per-hour high reported between Units 3 and 4 on March 15, and also far shy of the 3 millisieverts that individuals in developed countries are naturally *exposed to in a year.*

hmmm... .390 mSv x 365 x 24 = 3,416.400 mSv = *BUSTED!*

...
Still, that does not mean they know where this radiation came from. To this end, a camera was to be installed in the trench leading to the No. 2 unit's turbine building to scope out the area, a Tokyo Electric official said early Saturday.
...
Crews have dispersed about 2,000 liters (more than 500 gallons) of synthetic resin in a 500-square meter locale, according to Tokyo Electric. The aim is to hold the released radioactivity on the ground, so it can't interfere with the restoration of the cooling systems aimed at preventing the overheating of nuclear fuel rods in reactors and spent fuel pools at the plant.
...

----------


## Anti Federalist

*NH Health Dept. says radiation found in snow*

March 28, 2011 

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new...found_in_snow/

CONCORD, N.H.—New Hampshire health officials say tests have detected low-levels of radioactivity from a stricken Japanese nuclear plant in snow samples taken in Concord.

Dr. José Montero of the Department of Health and Human Services says the level of radioiodine-131 in the sample taken over the weekend do not pose a threat to public health.

Montero says the amount of radiation detected is at least 25 times below the level of concern, even for infants and pregnant women.

Montero says officials don't usually test samples in the winter, but it was prudent to expand testing after the Japanese nuclear crisis.

Officials in Massachusetts and other states have also reported finding small amounts of radiation from Japan.

Montero says the finding "is not unexpected

----------


## Thomas

not the FSP!

----------


## steph3n

They have no clue this is 'from japan' there are naturally occurring sources of radiation, and even plants far nearer to them that may be releasing unknown amounts of radioactive steam or other things, even coal fired plants or other industry.

the fact is they weren't testing it before so they have no baseline to compare (I am talking about places like the NH report), just because there is 'radiation' in something doesn't mean it is from Japan!

----------


## raiha

These photos are awe-inspiring: 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/chr...shima-reactors

So are the conclusions reached. What does it mean that all the cars in the car park have not moved sinced 3/11? I hope it means that people were not allowed back in to pick them up.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> They have no clue this is 'from japan' there are naturally occurring sources of radiation, and even plants far nearer to them that may be releasing unknown amounts of radioactive steam or other things, even coal fired plants or other industry.
> 
> the fact is they weren't testing it before so they have no baseline to compare (I am talking about places like the NH report), just because there is 'radiation' in something doesn't mean it is from Japan!


I believe they do have baselines for naturally occurring radiation. And the types of radiation coming from the reactor are very specific, and can be fairly easily traced.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

radioactive isotopes have signatures.  They know this is from Japan.

----------


## steph3n

> radioactive isotopes have signatures.  They know this is from Japan.


if measured by trained scientist. Many of these people out there making claims have bought some gauges and think they know what they are doing reading online, yes, those in government are the worst among these.

I've worked with them in the past, they get something new and within days think they are the know all of it. Unless they have someone trained in what they are doing, specifically, I really don't trust many of these reports.

The same inept stupid government we see on these boards daily, should immediately be trusted as experts in measuring where radiation is from now just to make you more scared? HA!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

I always look at the source.  The scientists that have been doing this for years, I trust.  Gvmt oficials saying "don't worry, be happy" I do NOT!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

New leak of radioactive water found

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...1301708715539A

The water is seeping from a newly discovered crack in a maintenance pit on the edge of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear site into the Pacific Ocean, Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama said.

Measurements show the air immediately above it contained 1,000 millisieverts of radioactivity.

....

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

It seems as though Japan has around 1,000 bodies that they don't know what to do with now because they are high radioactive and they cannot bury them and cannot cremate them.

----------


## acptulsa

CBS reports that they have the leak located in Reactor Two, and some self-sacrificing soul(s) will try to pour in concrete.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Video from a camera mounted on the concrete pump:




Analysis from Fairewinds Energy:

http://www.fairewinds.com/content/up...ase-senario-pl




> It’s important to realize that this feed and bleed operation that’s going on was never anticipated a month ago by anyone who every planned to mitigate an accident. A month ago the worst accident that was ever assumed was [that] one percent (1%) of the fuel in one reactor melted. We’ve got seventy percent (70%) of the fuel in three reactors melting. A month ago, we thought the containment would leak at [a rate of] half a percent per day; now we know the containment is leaking [at a rate of] much more than half a percent per day. A month ago, we thought the radioactivity would go high up a stack, and in fact we’re finding the stacks don’t work and the radiation is on the ground. The net effect of this is that in the Fukushima vicinity exposures are probably five hundred to a thousand times higher than anticipated in the accident analysis that was reasonable a month ago.
> 
> Also, a month ago no one ever envisioned the possibility of a fuel pool burning. That’s still a possibility. Brookhaven National Labs, back in 1997, did a study that said that the consequences of a fuel pool burning would be a hundred and thirty-seven thousand (137,000) fatalities from lung cancer. That’s a serious study, and it’s a number that we still need to be concerned about.
> 
> The difference between what’s happened and what we thought would happen is that everyone believed that the containment would contain, and it’s not. The plan was that what was in the reactor would get recirculated in the reactor and none of that material would come out into the ground water. These exposures are much, much higher as a result of what’s happened at Fukushima.


And a powerpoint zip file on the progression of the mess is here:

http://cryptome.org/0003/fukushima-areva.zip

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> It’s important to realize that this feed and bleed operation that’s going on was never anticipated a month ago by anyone who every planned to mitigate an accident.


It's safe to say that they never attempted to anticipate any disasters. Their disaster plans expected a fully intact and functioning system (from intact buildings, piping and controls, to easily restored power). Fatal mistake. Once again, the final fallback position would be the Chernobyl solution, and they didn't make plans for that either.

----------


## Anti Federalist

> if measured by trained scientist. Many of these people out there making claims have bought some gauges and think they know what they are doing reading online, yes, those in government are the worst among these.
> 
> I've worked with them in the past, they get something new and within days think they are the know all of it. Unless they have someone trained in what they are doing, specifically, I really don't trust many of these reports.
> 
> The same inept stupid government we see on these boards daily, should immediately be trusted as experts in measuring where radiation is from now just to make you more scared? HA!


Actually, NH has a fairly well established and vetted network of radiation detectors and monitoring stations, both to check levels around Seabrook and also to quantify naturally occurring radon levels, which, in NH, can be quite high in parts of the state.

I'd be inclined to believe the report as written.

I've advised people that are close to me to begin a KI regimen, since it's been determined that we're dealing specifically with I-131.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> It's safe to say that they never attempted to anticipate any disasters. Their disaster plans expected a fully intact and functioning system (from intact buildings, piping and controls, to easily restored power). Fatal mistake. Once again, the final fallback position would be the Chernobyl solution, and they didn't make plans for that either.


I see analogies between this event and the authoritarian establishment as a whole. Lots of smoke and mirrors, till the $#@! hits the fan... 

The Fairewinds guy came out with a second update today talking about the spent fuel pools

----------


## Carson

*From Far Labs, a Vivid Picture Emerges of Japan Crisis

By WILLIAM J. BROAD*
Published: April 2, 2011


For the clearest picture of what is happening at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, talk to scientists thousands of miles away.

Members of Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force towed a United States military barge carrying water for cooling toward the Fukushima Daiichi plant on Thursday.

Thanks to the unfamiliar but sophisticated art of atomic forensics, experts around the world have been able to document the situation vividly. Over decades, they have become very good at illuminating the hidden workings of nuclear power plants from afar, turning scraps of information into detailed analyses.

For example, an analysis by a French energy company revealed far more about the condition of the plant’s reactors than the Japanese have ever described: water levels at the reactor cores dropping by as much as three-quarters, and temperatures in those cores soaring to nearly 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit, hot enough to burn and melt the zirconium casings that protect the fuel rods.

Scientists in Europe and America also know from observing the explosions of hydrogen gas at the plant that the nuclear fuel rods had heated to very dangerous levels, and from radioactive plumes how far the rods had disintegrated.

At the same time, the evaluations also show that 

*Snip...*

The lofting of the latter particles in large quantities points to “substantial fuel melting,” Dr. Henry said.

He added that he and his colleagues modeled the Japanese accident* in its first days* and discerned partial — not full — core melting. 

*Snip...*

Stanford, where Dr. Hansen is a visiting scholar, posted the slides online after the March presentation. At that time, each of the roughly 30 slides was marked with the Areva symbol or name, and each also gave the name of their author, Matthias Braun.

The posted document was later changed to remove all references to Areva, and Dr. Braun and Areva did not reply to questions about what simulation code or codes the company may have used to arrive at its analysis of the Fukushima disaster.

“We cannot comment on that,” Jarret Adams, a spokesman for Areva, said of the slide presentation. The reason, he added, was “because it was not an officially released document.”

A European atomic official monitoring the Fukushima crisis expressed sympathy for Japan’s need to rely on forensics to grasp the full dimensions of the unfolding disaster.

“Clearly, there’s no access to the core,” the official said. “The Japanese are honestly blind.” 



_For the article in its entirety;_

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/sc...ewanted=2&_r=1

----------


## raiha

> It seems as though Japan has around 1,000 bodies that they don't know what to do with now because they are high radioactive and they cannot bury them and cannot cremate them.


What is your source? The same will apply to the workers when they succumb.Lead-lined coffins..the french might have a few left over from their testing programme. 
Well this is all cheery news to wake up to first thing on Sunday Morning. Thanks for your posts.

----------


## Carson

> What is your source? The same will apply to the workers when they succumb.Lead-lined coffins..the french might have a few left over from their testing programme. 
> Well this is all cheery news to wake up to first thing on Sunday Morning. Thanks for your posts.


Let me Google that for you

I don't mean to be rude. I just think the, "let me" thing is funny. I think it will only work for a little while on this topic. Now it does come up with a couple of stories.

----------


## raiha

> Let me Google that for you
> 
> I don't mean to be rude. I just think the, "let me" thing is funny. I think it will only work for a little while on this topic. Now it does come up with a couple of stories.



Don't patronize me. I'm on dial-up...it's slow.

I stole this from ZH...interview from irate Japanese reporter.

http://www.timeout.jp/en/tokyo/featu...-The-Interview

Obviously a lot has happened over the past couple of weeks, but what are the main things you've learned?


Basically, something that I knew from the beginning, but has become more blatant yesterday and today [March 27-28], is this terrible situation where the government and TEPCO are suppressing information. To be more specific, I thought it was strange that there was nothing written about plutonium when the data about reactor 3 was given out at the TEPCO press conference on the 27th, so I asked them if it was true that no plutonium had been detected in reactor 3, and for how long it had not been detected. TEPCO answered: 'Plutonium hasn’t been detected.' To confirm what they were saying I asked if perhaps it wasn't that none had been detected, but that they hadn't actually taken any measurements. They were alarmed, and it turned out that it wasn't even that they hadn't taken any measurements, but that they didn't have the instruments to do so in the first place.


That's one example. Another is the question of where exactly has the TEPCO company president gone? There was a rumour doing the rounds a while ago that he had been hospitalised, when actually he had been away because of fatigue. This time they're using the pretence of hospitalisation for the same situation. All of it's lies. It's emblematic, isn’t it? [Note: TEPCO president Masataka Shimizu was hospitalised on March 29, and subsequently resigned.]

----------


## jdmyprez_deo_vindice

> What is your source? The same will apply to the workers when they succumb.Lead-lined coffins..the french might have a few left over from their testing programme. 
> Well this is all cheery news to wake up to first thing on Sunday Morning. Thanks for your posts.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...be-radioactive

Meant to put it in my first post but ended up forgetting to do it.

----------


## Carson

> Don't patronize me. I'm on dial-up...it's slow.


Sorry.

----------


## Carson



----------


## raiha

> Sorry.


No worries.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/as...417399792.html

Japan's attempt to plug leaking reactor fails 

Japanese officials grappling to end the nuclear crisis at the earthquake and tsunami-crippled Fukushima plant are focusing on a crack in a concrete pit that is leaking highly radioactive water into the ocean from a crippled reactor.

Power plant workers attempted to fill the shaft with fresh concrete on Saturday, but that did not change the amount of water coming out of the crack, spokesmen for Tokyo Electric Co (TEPCO) told a news conference.

They will try to block the leak on leak again on Sunday by injecting polymeric material into the trench and use additional concrete to prevent contaminated water from leaking into the sea.

A Tokyo Electric expert will visit the site on Sunday and decide what polymer to use before the work begins.
The water has been leaking into the sea from a 20-centimetre crack detected at a pit in the reactor where power cables are stored, the government's nuclear safety agency said.

TEPCO said the pit is connected to the No. 2 reactor's turbine building and a tunnel-like underground trench, in which highly radioactive water has been spotted so far.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy head of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA), said on Saturday that to cool the damaged reactor, NISA was looking at alternatives to pumping in water, including an improvised air conditioning system, spraying the reactor fuel rods with vapourised water or using the plant's cleaning system.

Operators of the plant are no closer to regaining control of damaged reactors, as fuel rods remain overheated and high levels of radiation are flowing into the sea.

...

also video at site

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/04/wo...a/04japan.html

Bodies of 2 Missing Workers Found at Japanese Nuclear Plant

TOKYO — The operator of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station said Sunday that two workers at the plant who had been missing for several days had been confirmed dead.

The operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, said the workers were found in the basement of the turbine building connected to the plant’s No. 4 reactor. The company did not say how the workers died. But various news media reports say the men lost blood and went into shock. 

...

the strategy to cool the plant’s reactors and spent fuel storage pools by pumping hundreds of tons of water a day into them...The Japanese authorities have said they have little choice at the moment, since the normal cooling systems at the plant are inoperable and more radioactive material would be released if the reactors were allowed to melt down fully or if the rods caught fire. 

...

the leak discovered Saturday raised fears that contaminated water might be seeping out through many more undiscovered sources. He said that unless workers could quickly stop the leaking, Tokyo Electric could be forced to re-evaluate the so-called feed-and-bleed strategy, in which they flood the reactors and fuel ponds with water and then release the steam that the hot fuel rods generate. 

“It is crucial to keep cooling the fuel rods, but on the other hand, these leaks are dangerous,” Mr. Iguchi said. “They can’t let the plant keep leaking high amounts of radiation for much longer,”

...

----------


## raiha

I've seen a couple of reports that the crack in Reactor 2 spilling into the sea is 20cm. I am hoping that is height. Does anyone know of other dimensions? Width? If the crack is 20cm wide then it is going to be hard to stem.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> I've seen a couple of reports that the crack in Reactor 2 spilling into the sea is 20cm. I am hoping that is height. Does anyone know of other dimensions? Width? If the crack is 20cm wide then it is going to be hard to stem.


I was reading a report earlier that said 8" wide, but another yesterday that said 8" long.

----------


## raiha

Here's a link to the NHK website showing a picture of the crack with someone pointing at it:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/02_21.html

----------


## steph3n

> Here's a link to the NHK website showing a picture of the crack with someone pointing at it:
> http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/02_21.html


umm is that is the crack it is more like meters long.....and going to be a major pain to seal.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9d7b6070-5...#ixzz1IRtCID7v

Staff discovered the 20 centimetre-wide crack in a shaft storing supply cables close to reactor No 2. Tepco is making preparations to inject a type of polymer into the pit in its latest effort to block the leaking water, after Saturday’s attempts to plug the crack with concrete failed.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

*The culprit!*







http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...?docId=6448848

Engineers try to stem a leak of highly radioactive water spilling into the Pacific with a new method after concrete failed to seal a crack discovered Saturday. They injected polymer that can absorb enormous amounts of water into a pipe that connects to the maintenance pit from where the water is leaking. It's not yet known if that has worked.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul



----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Anyone know stores which may have Potassium Iodide? I've tried CVS, Walgreens, Vitamin World, Vitamin Shoppe (only had crazy expensive liquid which would take like $60 a person), whole foods market were the only people whom said they carry it but are out of stock.
> 
> I live in Miami and we dont have Rite Aid >.>


This place should be back in stock Aprin 4th:
http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?m...ndex&cPath=2_9

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...et-1312441.php

they injected a mix of sawdust, shredded newspaper and a polymer that can expand to 50 times its normal size when combined with water. The polymer mix had not yet stopped the leak Sunday night but engineers have not given up hope and should know by Monday morning whether it will work.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13811720.htm

The polymeric powder is water absorbent that can soak up 50- times its own volume, the agency said. It is the same absorbent used in babies' diapers.

BINGO! - found you! - maybe...
http://www.coolscience.org/CoolScien...babydiaper.htm

Baby Diaper Polymer

Description

Modern baby diapers contain polyacrylic acid, a super-absorbent polymer. When some of this polymer was added to a beaker with water and stirred, it absorbed many times its weight in water.

Explanation

Polyacrylic acid is a polymer made from the monomer acrylic acid. These long chains contain thousands of monomer units, and the polymer also has some cross-linking between the chains. Many polymers, such as polyethylene and polystyrene (used in trash bags, plastic bottles, and Styrofoam®, for example) are hydrophobic, meaning they repel water. Polyacrylic acid, however, is very hydrophilic - it attracts water. That's because of the carboxylic acid groups (COOH) in the polymer, which can hydrogen-bond to water molecules.



Diapers contain a small amount (4-5 grams) of polyacrylic acid in a powder form, which is mixed into the fluff in the middle layer of the diaper. The inside layer of the diaper allows water to pass through it into the absorbent middle layer, and the outer layer is waterproof, so both baby and mommy stay dry. Polyacrylic acid can absorb about 30 times its weight in water, or about 30 mL (1 oz) of water per gram, so a typical diaper can absorb 120-150 mL of water (about a half cup). That's about how much a baby... um... pees. 

ummm... maybe, because the articles say can absorb 50 times, while this says 30 times.  Is this the right polymer?

-t

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> *The culprit!*


Looking at this picture I see a large horizon to the workers right, and a tower behind the worker to the left. The large horizon tells me this crack is close to the sea, and lookign at the satellite photo below...




> 


The only structures that look at all similar to the structure immediately behind the worker is located on the seawall (above the "breakwaters" label) which seems a stretch to describe as "close to reactor 2"

----------


## raiha

Hmm I'm glad I was in the era that put cotton nappies oops diapers on my baby. All that chemistry makes my head spin. Something quaint about a product that can stay the most lethal substance known to man that can also spend years close to precious wee newborn babies bottoms. Must be good!

So what about strontium 90? Is anyone measuring that? There was that article from the irate Japanese journo who when he had asked about the presence of plutonium had been told by Tepco reps that no plutonium had been detected. Then he found out they did not have anything to actually_ measure_ the stuff. So have they got apparatus to measure Strontiom 90 I wonder? 

It is criminal that these people were not better prepared for a catastrophe. (I know it has been said before!)

----------


## raiha

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82882.html

----------


## AFPVet

> This place should be back in stock Aprin 4th:
> http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?m...ndex&cPath=2_9


Amazon has several distributors which have available stock.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04...-fail-contain/

Early on, the company ran out of full radiation suits, forcing workers to create improvised versions of items such as nylon booties they were supposed to pull over their shoes.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...tion-leak.html

Tokyo Electric Sawdust Solution Fails to Stop Radiation Leak

Tokyo Electric Power Co.s attempt to clog a cracked pit with a mixture of sawdust, newspaper and plastic failed to stop radioactive water leaking into the sea from its crippled nuclear plant.

The absorbent material, including the same polymer used in baby diapers, was injected into a power-cable storage pit at the plant where radiation-contaminated water is escaping through a crack, the power utility said yesterday.

The company is injecting a tracer dye to try to gain more information about where and how fast the water is flowing before continuing efforts to halt it,

...

Tokyo Electric, also called Tepco, said it overestimated the absorption power of the polymer products it used. It believed the material would absorb 1,000 times its volume in water, Tepco said yesterday in a press conference webcast over the Internet. Instead, the rate was 20 times the volume, the company said.

Tepco needs to understand the waters flow rate so that it can determine how to use the absorbent material successfully, said Akira Tokuhiro, professor of mechanical and nuclear engineering at the University of Idaho.

If you were putting powder over Niagra Falls, it would go right over the flow before having time to work, Tokuhiro said in a telephone interview. But it could be successful if the leak at the nuclear plant is a very low flow, and the powder had time to move slowly along the channels and then find the crack itself and then expand.

...

The water-absorbent polymer has never been used before in these cases, so Im not sure whether this works well or not, said Suh Kune Yull, a professor of nuclear energy system engineering at Seoul National University. It may not be easy as the leaking pit is very wide.

...

A Tepco executive said yesterday he *isnt optimistic about the prospect of containing damage at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plants No. 3 reactor.

I dont know if we can ever enter the No. 3 reactor building again,* Hikaru Kuroda, the companys chief of nuclear facility management, said at a press conference.

...

About 10 centimeters (4 inches) to 20 centimeters of radioactive water was found in the leaking pit, which is 1.2 meters by 1.9 meters across and 2 meters deep, and had a crack about 20 centimeters wide, ... Tokyo Electric tried to plug the crack by filling the pit near reactor No. 2 with concrete

...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...uclear.status/

Status report: Reactor-by-reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant

It's long, so I'm going to summarize:

#1-4
switching from generator to grid power soon
pumping in Nitrogen to prevent more hydrogen explosions
working on electricity
pumping and moving water

#1
stable, temp in containment vessel continuing to drop (read - it's too hot but headed in the right direction) pressure levels increasing slightly
camera installed in maint tunnel to try find how water is getting in.
reactor's core has been damaged, but its containment vessel was not

#2
radioactive water still leaking into sea, attempts to plug failed.
containment vessel breached and leaking water
stable but temps increasing

#3
still pumping water into leaking storage pool
camera installed in maint tunnel to try find how water is getting in.
core damage

#4
pumping water into leaking spent storage pool

#5 and 6
stable

==
From another report, thought it was this one - company is refuting that #1 had a 70% meltdown and are saying it's only 2-3%

They are not refuting a 33% meltdown in #2

----------


## Carson

Maybe they should have went straight to the real McCoy and used diapers.


P.S. I still don't really understand the crack pictures. I see one where it is hard to tell if he is pointing down into the open vault or pointing to a crack in what looks like a surface slab. I did see another picture that showed down into a vault put it didn't look like a crack as much as it looked like a pipe draining in through the side.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3189687

*
ronpaulhawaii*,

Nice post about trying to locate the crack in the pictures in your post. Did you go back and try the hi res aerial shots? I did but couldn't seem to get in close enough to locate the spot for sure. You can also see what looks like a lot of cracking in the surface pavement but I wouldn't think that would be of much concern. There to I just couldn't see close enough to tell.

Hi res:
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-...chi-photos.htm


I'm not totally against nuclear power but I do firmly believe it needs to be able to *handle the truth*. Seriously,* face the facts and honestly handle the truth.*

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Maybe they should have went straight to the real McCoy and used diapers.
> 
> 
> P.S. I still don't really understand the crack pictures. I see one where it is hard to tell if he is pointing down into the open vault or pointing to a crack in what looks like a surface slab. I did see another picture that showed down into a vault put it didn't look like a crack as much as it looked like a pipe draining in through the side.
> 
> *
> ronpaulhawaii*,
> 
> Nice post about trying to locate the crack in the pictures in your post. Did you go back and try the hi res aerial shots? I did but couldn't seem to get in close enough to locate the spot for sure. You can also see what looks like a lot of cracking in the surface pavement but I wouldn't think that would be of much concern. There to I just couldn't see close enough to tell.


Pic 2 - the crack leads to the pit.  see what the guy is standing on?  That's in the lower left of pic 3, which has the arrow pointing into the pit.

As to pick 4 - I'm not sure if that is water flowing into the pit from the crack, or the exit from a pipe coming from the pit going into the ocean.  I think it's the latter.

-t

----------


## Carson

> Pic 2 - the crack leads to the pit.  see what the guy is standing on?  That's in the lower left of pic 3, which has the arrow pointing into the pit.
> 
> As to pick 4 - I'm not sure if that is water flowing into the pit from the crack, or the exit from a pipe coming from the pit going into the ocean.  I think it's the latter.
> 
> -t


Yah *tangent4ronpaul*,

That forth picture doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the set. Also notice the rust stain near the water flow. Even though it doesn't quite line up right somehow I would think it took a while to get there.

The bars in the forth picture don't seem to be in any of the other three. 

Were missing puzzle pieces! My older brother use to pocket one on me, when we were little, just to be in on the finish.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...586437194.html

Focus at Power Plant Turns to Water 

the focus of the repair has turned to removing radioactive water from in and around the reactor buildings, as the poison pools prevent workers from doing other tasks. Yet more than a week after the problem was first discovered, very little water has been removed.

*Three factors have caused the delay: structural damage to pipes and other reactor parts crucial for water movement; radiation dangers blocking workers from performing essential steps; and a shortage of safe places to put the water.*

Also, government and company officials seem to be moving methodically in this phase, concluding it is better to get things right than to rush. They appear to have the time, as the reactors seem to have stabilized and the amount of atmospheric radiation they have released has declined over the past two weeks.

...

officials made the solution sound swift and simple: They would begin pumping the water out of the flooded buildings.

It turned out that wasn't so easy. They needed a place to put the water, and the logical places already were full.

The past week has been devoted largely to creating a three-link chain of repositories that will allow drainage of the reactors. Success now is measured not in actual removal of the water, but in clearing a space for it.

The key links in the chain begin with the most important task of attaching the electric cooling systems to reactors No. 1, 2 and 3, so the internal cooling process can begin. Absent that, operators are relying on injecting water to keep the reactors from overheating, a process that has stabilized the fuel rods, but doesn't seem likely to bring them to the desired cold shutdown. And it has the dangerous side effect of creating a large buildup of radioactive water in nearby groundwater and seawater.

Workers, however, can't hook up the cooling pumps now, because the turbine buildings that power the machinery are flooded. They first need to pump the water out of those turbine buildings. But they can't do that now either, because the closest place to move that water is the "condenser unit," so-called because during normal operations it takes the steam that runs the turbines and condenses it into water. 

Those units are currently full. So the water there needs to be moved to second nearby tanks, called condensate storage tanks, located in front of the turbine buildings. When workers discovered the problem a few days ago, those tanks also had water in them. The water in those tanks needed to be drained into third tanks, called surge tanks, farther from the buildings.

Some progress has been reported in the past few days.

Tepco appears to have put the highest priority on reactor No. 2, where the measured level of radiation in the water is highest and seems to be leaking into the sea. There, workers began shifting water from the closest tank to the middle tank Saturday, having earlier finished shifting the contents of the middle tank to the far tank. Once that closest tank is empty, they can begin emptying the turbine building.

At reactor No. 1, they have finished emptying the middle tank to the far tank, and on Sunday they started shifting water from the closest tank to the middle tank.

At reactor No. 3, they have finished emptying the middle tank, but haven't yet started moving water from the closest tank. Officials say that will start soon.

Why does all that take so long?

First, they need more places to store the water that leaves the reactors. There isn't enough storage capacity on the site. And it isn't so easy to find large-scale storage tanks that can handle such toxic liquid. To help add storage capacity, they are looking at bringing in barges to a nearby port, including a floating fishing pier dubbed "mega-float" from the port city of Shizuoka.

Tepco also said Friday it would build new storage tanks and a pond with a combined total capacity of 10,000 tons. Those won't be completed until mid-April.

Officials haven't said how much water they need to remove. One Japanese newspaper, the Asahi Shimbun, has said there are at least 20,000 tons.

Mr. Nishiyama couldn't confirm that estimate. "We don't know," he said.

It isn't just a storage problem. It also is difficult to move the water between the links in the chain. They are connected by an intricate network of pipes. Many of the pipes are narrow-gauge and can't carry significant amounts of water, slowing the draining process. And some of the pipes were damaged when the tsunami overwhelmed seawalls and destroyed the reactors back-up systems, according to a government official who asked not to be named.

Many of those pipes are in highly radioactive areas, making it hard for workers to conduct repairs.

Also, some parts of the pipes can't be operated via remote control, meaning workers have to adjust manually the valves that control the flow of water, a Tepco spokesman said. Radiation makes that difficult.

Another factor that appears to be slowing down the water transfer: Tepco is using only three relatively small pumps to conduct the process.

The company has one pump assigned to each reactor. At reactors No. 1 and 3, the pumps can move only 25 cubic meters—or one metric ton—per hour. At reactor No. 2, they have a pump that moves just 10 cubic meters per hour.

A regulator said even faster pumps wouldn't necessarily help because it isn't clear the narrow pipes could sustain more volume.

*Sounds like they painted themselves into a corner*

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...236650552.html

The chamber, or pit, is used to inspect electrical cables that power the intake of seawater.

The chamber sits closer to the ocean than a trench that had previously been identified as a possible source of water flowing into the ocean. Tepco said the cracked chamber, which is about 6½ feet deep, contains roughly eight inches of highly contaminated water. 

Workers set about trying to seal the crack Saturday and Sunday. They started with concrete, and when that failed they poured 132 pounds of sawdust, 18 pounds of polymer and three bags of shredded newspaper into the pit.

[This contradicts another report I saw that said they had dug down to a pipe at 2 different locations and broken into it for the cement and polymer attempts.]

On Sunday night, however, regulators said that the materials hadn't absorbed the radioactive water, which continues to flow into the sea.

Tepco officials said they didn't know why the concrete or other attempted fixes had failed to plug the crack.

Authorities offered no indication of how they would approach the problem if the polymer, which expands when it absorbs water, didn't stop the flow of contaminated water.

A spokesman for Tepco said the utility also would add dye to the water to determine where it was flowing.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ust-fails.html

Sea Barrier Planned to Halt Fukushima Leaks

Electric Power Co. plans to install a silt barrier in the sea to stop the leak of radioactive water from its crippled nuclear station, after an attempt to clog a crack with a mixture of sawdust, newspaper and plastic failed.

The barrier may take several days to install,

...

A tracer dye injected by Tepco in the water at the cracked pit at its No. 2 reactor building wasnt seen flowing into the sea, a spokesman for the utility said at a news conference streamed over the Internet today. There was no change in the flow of radioactive water from the building through a water intake, indicating it may be taking another route to the sea, according to the spokesman.

----------


## Carson

This link has a picture of a vault now filled with concrete.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/p...MPLATE=DEFAULT

I'm thinking there should be huge amounts of contaminated water other than what we've seen in these vault pictures to account for.

----------


## devil21

This is really starting to remind me of the Deepwater Horizon disaster.  When they don't know what to do they just start throwing household crap at it.  Sawdust and newspaper?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

They are now seriously talking about building a frame over each reactor and covering it with a special cloth.  Cost is about $960 Million and nuke experts are saying it won't keep radiation it that much, but will make it impossible for workers to work in the reactors to bring things under control because radiation levels will be higher inside the tents.

Devil - you forgot baby diaper pea dust and bath salts.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

TEPCO is planning on releasing 10,000 - 15,000 tons of radioactive water into the sea to free up tank space.  The water being released is less radioactive than the water they will be pumping into the tanks.  This is being done so they can continue work on the cooling.

----------


## armstrong

now thats just wonderfull ,not !!

----------


## sparebulb

Based on performance, I think that TEPCO could qualify to be an agency of the US federal government.

----------


## sirgonzo420

> Based on performance, I think that TEPCO could qualify to be an agency of the US federal government.


They are probably good for a Nobel Peace Prize too.

----------


## LibertyRevolution

Here is the link to TEPCO about to dump 10,000 tons of radioactive water into the pacific ocean. 
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...rss_topstories

How can they legally dump radioactive waste into an international body of water?

on a side note: "The radiation levels were highest in the water from reactor No. 6, the officials said. "

Reactor 6 .. is listed as stable.. I'm guessing more lies.

----------


## raiha

The seaweed harvesters and fishermen will love that! I must find a sea current map.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Has anyone noted that 10,000 tons of water is about 2 and a 1/4 million gallons...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Based on performance, I think that TEPCO could qualify to be an agency of the US federal government.


+1

That slogan has some serious potential!

----------


## MozoVote

For all the bashing BP took, most people probably accepted that they (and their contractors) were the most experienced with deepwater drilling and that either one of their Hail Mary efforts woruld work, or the final relief well would.

I'm coming to the conclusion TEPCO only knew how to *operate* a nuclear plant. Not respond to a disaster. The news about the Japanese asking for Russian help in the background, bears that out.

This festering disaster is starting to sound strangely like HG Wells' original vision of "nucear bombs". Fires that could not be put out for months.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...k-plunges.html

Tepco Dumping Toxic Water Angers Fishermen; Stock Plunges

Tepco began discharging 11,500 tons of water yesterday, enough to fill 4 1/2 Olympic-sized swimming pools, to make room to store more highly contaminated fluids.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7F42CD20110405

On Tuesday, they used "liquid glass" in the hope of plugging cracks in a leaking concrete pit. 
...
TEPCO said on Tuesday it had started paying "condolence money" to local governments to aid people evacuated from around its stricken plant or affected by the radiation crisis. 
...
*YEAH! - does a little jig! - I hope they get the message that outsourcing like this is STUPID!  Other industries have been effected too.*
The world's biggest auto maker Toyota Motor Corp will idle some U.S. factories due to supplies in Japan drying up. The company, which built nearly 1.5 million cars and trucks in North America last year, said it did not know how many of its 13 plants would be affected.
...
Japan has now asked Russia to send the floating radiation treatment plant "Suzuran", used to decommission Russian submarines in nearby Vladivostock, Interfax news agency reported.

The "Suzuran", one of the world's largest liquid radioactive waste treatment plants, treats radioactive liquid with chemicals and stores it in a cement form. It can process 35 cubic metres of liquid waste a day and 7,000 cubic metres a year.

TEPCO said it would also build tanks to hold contaminated seawater, was towing a floating tank which will arrive next week, and was negotiating the purchase of three more.

Engineers also plan to build two giant "silt curtains" made of polyester fabric in the sea to block the spread of more contamination from the plant. 
...

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

A cubic meter is a bit over a US ton... Lets say this thing can process ~40 tons a day... How much are they creating a day again?

and then there is this report:

http://www.naturalnews.com/031963_ra..._exposure.html




> *EPA to raise limits for radiation exposure while Canada turns off fallout detectors*
> 
> ...
> 
> The EPA maintains a set of so-called "Protective Action Guides" (PAGs). These PAGs are being quickly revised to radically increase the allowable levels of iodine-131 (a radioactive isotope) to anywhere from 3,000 to 100,000 times the currently allowable levels.
> 
> ...
> 
> Truly, this is science at its most delightful. When the facts don't fit your fairy tale, simply rewrite the fairy tale to discard the facts! That's science for you today, folks: There's nothing that can't be denied, censored, oppressed or ignored if you just fudge the numbers with enough determination and arrogance.
> ...

----------


## Eroberer

That's what they did in the USSR after Chernobyl.  They increased the amount of radiation one needed to be exposed to before you were considered sick.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Problems in #5 & #6?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c18EiJy_Hik

Perhaps not as stable as we've been led to believe?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> Reporting from Tokyo The operator of Japan's stricken Fukushima nuclear plant said Tuesday that it had found radioactive iodine at *7.5 million* times the legal limit in a seawater sample taken near the facility, and government officials imposed a new health limit for radioactivity in fish.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,2697428.story

----------


## RCA

*Tepco seals leak at nuclear plant*

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/11f55f6c-5...44feab49a.html

----------


## AFPVet

About time.... Now what about burying that mess of a plant?

----------


## sparebulb

When the scale on their geiger counter only goes to "11", they have proof that the leak is sealed because the readings aren't going any higher.  Problem solved.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> *Tepco seals leak at nuclear plant*
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/11f55f6c-5...44feab49a.html


Must be registered / subscriber to read.  Try this one:

Tepco Plugs Leak of Highly Radioactive Water From Reactor

Engineers used sodium-silicate to stop the leak near the No. 2 reactor, the power utility said earlier. Tepco has previously tried plugging the leak with materials including concrete, sawdust, newsprint and absorbent polymer used in diapers.

That would be liquid glass - the stuff you patch windshields with.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

U.S. Sees Array of New Threats at Japans Nuclear Plant

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/wo...html?src=twrhp

United States government engineers sent to help with the crisis in Japan are warning that the troubled nuclear plant there is facing a wide array of fresh threats that could persist indefinitely, and that in some cases are expected to increase as a result of the very measures being taken to keep the plant stable, according to a confidential assessment prepared by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 

...

the mounting stresses placed on the containment structures as they fill with radioactive cooling water, making them more vulnerable to rupture in one of the aftershocks 

...

possibility of explosions inside the containment structures due to the release of hydrogen and oxygen from seawater pumped into the reactors

...

new details on how semimolten fuel rods and salt buildup are impeding the flow of fresh water meant to cool the nuclear cores

...

Among other problems, the document raises new questions about whether pouring water on nuclear fuel in the absence of functioning cooling systems can be sustained indefinitely. 

...

The document also suggests that fragments or particles of nuclear fuel from spent fuel pools above the reactors were blown up to one mile from the units, and that pieces of highly radioactive material fell between two units and had to be bulldozed over, presumably to protect workers at the site. The ejection of nuclear material, which may have occurred during one of the earlier hydrogen explosions, may indicate more extensive damage to the extremely radioactive pools than previously disclosed. 

...

I thought they were, not out of the woods, but at least at the edge of the woods, said Mr. Lochbaum, who was not involved in preparing the document. This paints a very different picture, and suggests that things are a lot worse. They could still have more damage in a big way if some of these things dont work out for them. 

...

(More at link)

----------


## DamianTV

Japan Seawater Radioactivity Soars To 7.5 MILLION Times Legal Limit 




> By Kenji Hall and Julie Makinen, Los Angeles Times
> 
> April 6, 2011
> Reporting from Tokyo— 
> 
> The operator of Japan's stricken nuclear plant said Wednesday that it had apparently contained at least one leak that was allowing radiation to seep into the sea.
> 
> Tokyo Electric Power Co. had said Tuesday that it had found iodine-131 *at 7.5 million times the legal limit* in a seawater sample taken near the facility, and government officials instituted a health limit for radioactivity in fish. Other samples were found to contain radioactive cesium at 1.1 million times the legal limit.
> 
> ...


I think the whole planet is just $#@!ed on this one...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Japan Seawater Radioactivity Soars To 7.5 MILLION Times Legal Limit 
> 
> I think the whole planet is just $#@!ed on this one...


There are 70 million cubic miles of water in the Pacific, which equates to 187,189,915,062,857,142,857 gallons, (187 quintillion gallons or 187,189,915,062 billion gallons), of water in the Pacific Ocean.

(and you thought the national debt was big!   )

Fishing in the region of Japan is $#@!ed.

----------


## s35wf

> Japan Seawater Radioactivity Soars To 7.5 MILLION Times Legal Limit 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the whole planet is just $#@!ed on this one...


Plutonium has half shelf life of like 30,000 Years!

We are all Japanese now!

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/th.../2011/apr/06/1

*Guardian Readers 'Fix' the Fukushima Power Plant*

with the Space Shuttles recently decommissioned, surely we could use them to lift the damaged reactors into space, where they could explode in peace without causing harm to any people or wildlife, or unsettling the residents of Oxfordshire? As long as we tugged them in the opposite direction from the space station, I couldn't really see a problem with this plan.

...

If only there were some way for ordinary, unqualified members of the public with interesting ideas, but no actual experience or knowledge of how nuclear reactors work, to have their opinions published in a serious forum for the benefit of the energy industry and mankind.

And then something brilliant happened. The Guardian finally decided to step in and ask its readers for help: "Fukushima nuclear crisis: Send us your ideas for stopping radiation leaks." Their plea continued:

    "The Fukushima plant remains in a critical condition and solutions to immediate problems are not forthcoming. That's why we're looking for your views on the best ways to make the plant safe again. In particular, we're looking for opinions from experts with knowledge of the nuclear industry, but whether you're an engineer in the field, an academic, or a nuclear plant worker, we'd like to hear from you."

Adding on the form, "please be as brief as possible," because the last thing you need in a crisis like this is a complicated solution. 

[Submit your ideas here!: http://twitter.com/guardianscience/s...62042319364096 ]

a few jems....

Hugh, Geology Student: "I would use explosive materials to detach the Fukushima plant from the main land, use air-bags to float it 50km out into the pacific and then sink the whole lot 7000m down to the bottom of the Japan Trench."

OmegaSector: "IN FUTURE, ALL NEW NUCLEAR REACTOR MUST BE BUILT OVER A 1.2 km hole. Any out of control reactor, one press of a buttom and boom, the reactor will fail down 1.2 km and then seal up with soil."

Not Einstein: "friendly radiation... to probably cancel out its effects. Its more like injecting good cholesterols to fight off bad ones in your body. I am not versed in these nuclear technicalities but I do understand philosophy of things, and sometimes you just need to fight fire with fire."

Harry: Moor a large tanker along side the plant. Flood the hull with water. With a large crane lift the problem reactor cores into the flooded hull, where the water will keep them cool for as long as it takes to sail the hull to a deep ocean trench and sink it.

More at the links....

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

A new scientific commission on the mess:




> ...has been appointed co-chair of the newly-created American Nuclear Society Special Commission on Fukushima-Daiichi, will also advise the committee on how the U.S. can learn from the disaster in order to shape its own nuclear industry.
> http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/pr...itee-1.2144295


A rosy view that goes quickly downhill in expecting people to trust gov't authorities (especially in light of recent reports that "safe" levels have been raised in response to this crisis):



> Q. Can the radioactive water leaking from the Japanese nuclear plant eventually reach the U.S. and be hazardous? 
> 
> A. It's hard to say how that water will move, because it will spread not only on the surface but downward in deep layers of the Pacific Ocean. If it does reach the West Coast, it would probably take at least 18 months to three years, by one estimate. In any case, nobody expects it would pose a radiation hazard upon arrival because of tremendous dilution along the way. 
> 
> Airborne radioactive particles have already reached the United States, but federal authorities say the measured levels aren't dangerous. 
> http://www.telegram.com/article/20110406/APA/304069925


Experts are still hedging though:



> Are you worried about eating Albacore tuna even from the U.S.? At this point most experts believe that the radiation levels in the ocean and fish are nothing to worry about. If there is a panic, it will end up costing fisheries in the U.S., which would be an unfortunate side effect of the Japan nuclear meltdown. Fishermen in Japan are already dealing with this fear of radiation. http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.a...81474979192768


First reports I've seen of nuclear fuel being blown skyhigh by the explosions:



> Fragments of incredibly dangerous nuclear fuel were blown out of the reactors "up to one mile from the units," and then simply bulldozed over to protect workers on site, according to the NRC report... "A new hydrogen explosion could happen, there could be a failure of one of the fuel rods, the fuel ponds that could cause a fire and if so, it could be a major release of radiation," said Circinione. http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=13307084


and this thread is fast approaching the best pic thread for number of posts...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> It's hard to say how that water will move, because it will spread not only on the surface but downward in deep layers of the Pacific Ocean. If it does reach the West Coast, it would probably take at least 18 months to three years, by one estimate. In any case, nobody expects it would pose a radiation hazard upon arrival because of tremendous dilution along the way.


This will be here sooner....

----------


## Kludge

Dick Cheney & George Bush have upgraded their God Tower to go well beyond cloud seeding. They now have the capability to create earthquakes. Dick Cheney caused this catastrophe in an effort to extend his life, well beyond what drinking baby blood alone would do. His scientists have clearly proven radiation hormesis theory true, and found Cheney would be at a significantly lower risk of cancer if the background radiation levels were slightly elevated. Thus, Cheney conceived the plan to release massive amounts of radiation far away to harm the Asians and, with the relatively small amounts which come over the sea, increase our own cancer and potentially radiation resistance.

Dick Cheney is attempting to turn all who live in the Western world the new master "race" to out-live, out-earn, and out-consume all others as part of a grander scheme to spread Christianity, Democracy, and Whiteness to all the world and win the world domination conditions through cultural domination.

God offers us a choice -- kill XX or allow his (not His... - or maybe His. I guess it's His plan ultimately, innit?) cultural extermination plot to continue until everyone in the world has been indoctrinated through the One World Education Cheney will force on those who remain living. - And Cheney will tell you to renounce Jesus or will put you to death because you're not compliant enough to be a controllable worker for him.

So, who do you support - God, or the anti-christ? The choice is yours...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Finally they admit it....

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/fukushi...ry?id=13303513

*Fukushima: A Nuclear Threat to Japan, the U.S. and the World* 

The Fukushima disaster has become more than a local, regional or national Japanese event. The worldwide implications of the event are becoming apparent: though a major leak in a maintenance pit of the plant has been plugged, there is still a great likelihood that significant amounts of radioactive water will continue to be released into the Pacific Ocean; the worldwide Just-In-Time manufacturing cycle has been interrupted*[YEAH!]*; and increased levels of radiation have been detected on the U.S. East Coast. Though the amount of radiation to reach the U.S. is small and poses no present danger*[So far - it's cumulative, is still coming over and could come over in much larger quantities given a meltdown]*, its presence demonstrates that the Fukushima event has global impact. 

article goes on to talk about Japan dumping their holdings of our debt (very bad thing for us), shortages of memory/cpu's, greater import of food into that country, driving food prices up worldwide, etc.

----------


## ds21089

> Dick Cheney & George Bush have upgraded their God Tower to go well beyond cloud seeding. They now have the capability to create earthquakes. Dick Cheney caused this catastrophe in an effort to extend his life, well beyond what drinking baby blood alone would do. His scientists have clearly proven radiation hormesis theory true, and found Cheney would be at a significantly lower risk of cancer if the background radiation levels were slightly elevated. Thus, Cheney conceived the plan to release massive amounts of radiation far away to harm the Asians and, with the relatively small amounts which come over the sea, increase our own cancer and potentially radiation resistance.
> 
> Dick Cheney is attempting to turn all who live in the Western world the new master "race" to out-live, out-earn, and out-consume all others as part of a grander scheme to spread Christianity, Democracy, and Whiteness to all the world and win the world domination conditions through cultural domination.
> 
> God offers us a choice -- kill XX or allow his (not His... - or maybe His. I guess it's His plan ultimately, innit?) cultural extermination plot to continue until everyone in the world has been indoctrinated through the One World Education Cheney will force on those who remain living. - And Cheney will tell you to renounce Jesus or will put you to death because you're not compliant enough to be a controllable worker for him.
> 
> So, who do you support - God, or the anti-christ? The choice is yours...


The ability to create earthquakes has been around for a while (though I'm assuming that was a very sarcastic comment). Nikoli Tesla experimented with this in the early 1900s. As far as the cancer and drinking blood..I'm assuming that's a huge joke. The bigger joke is that you think they're trying to spread Christianity and "Democracy" when in reality they are attacking every religion (except maybe Jews?) and promoting a Fascism / Plutarchy agenda globally.

While your whole statement seems like a joke, the poor choice of words leads me to think that you actually believe some of it. That or you are the master of sarcasm

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...119311074.html

Crisis at Japan Nuclear Plant Shifts to New Blast Risk

Officials at TEPCO, which operates the Fukushima plant, said a dangerous hydrogen buildup is taking place at its number-one reactor.  Japan's NHK television quoted officials saying hydrogen is accumulating inside the reactor's containment vessel - an indication that the reactor's core has been damaged.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...flC_story.html

Japanese radioactive releases are no threat to American health, federal officials say

Americans have no reason to fear any health effects from the nuclear power plant accident in Japan, should take no protective measures and should avoid no foods, federal health officials said Tuesday.
...
The CDC director said the agency has heard that numerous poison control centers around the country have gotten calls from people who took potassium iodide, a pill that blocks the thyroid gland from absorbing radioactive iodine. He did not provide details about the calls but said: “I want to be unambiguous. There is no reason for anyone in the United States to take potassium iodide *at the present time.”*

[Now why do they always qualify this?]

*There are no other medicines that protect against radiation exposure,* [LIE!] and the public should be wary of substances advertised as able to do so, the experts said.
...
The agency has banned imports of Japanese leafy vegetables and some head vegetables (such as cauliflower) from Fukushima prefecture,

[umm $#@! for brains... Japan is a net importer of most of their food.  They would not export something grown domestically here, but rather limited amounts of specialty items like tea.  BANNED MY ASS! - "Hay look at me - I'm doing something to protect you!" (for a problem that does not exist...) ]  

In other news, the NRC has banned the import of Kryptonite from planets outside our solar system...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52659.html

Democrats slam NRC on nuclear safety

Yet the Nuclear Regulatory Commission insists that our systems are safe, even before beginning, let alone completing, its review of our reactors and spent fuel pools.

[You mean after Congress and Obama shut down  the Yucca Mountain storage site project?]

Markey also complained that existing U.S. regulations dont fully account for the risk of earthquakes

The same government regulators that OK'd building 20 (1/5th) of the nuke power plants in the US on top of fault lines?

"regulation is not a bad word"
- Rep Diana DeGette

Anyone else think that the governments uber-nannystate regulations were largely responsible for the BP spill?  I mean with BP following a gvmt checklist and having to ask permission to wipe it's ass, from incompetent paper pushers - everything should be lollypops and rainbows - right?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...258214770.html

*Many feel that the very continuance of Japan's culture and people are at risk,* because in addition to the massive number of elderly who are vulnerable to the current conditions, Japan also has one of the world's lowest birth rates, a trend that has been going on for three decades.

If that sounds hyperbolic, consider this: For years, the Japanese government has offered its people incentives to have children. To put it bluntly, many feel that the population is slowly dying out.

According to the country's statistics bureau, more than a quarter of Japanese are 65 or older, while roughly 15 per cent are under the age of 15. By 2050, it is projected that nearly 40 per cent of the population will be seniors and just under nine per cent will be children.

The pressure on young women to have children is immense (in 2007 Hakuo Yanagisawa, the country's health minister, referred to women as "birth-giving machines") while it is common to hear those who choose to remain childless referred to as "parasites". 

So, in this context, the possibility of a nuclear meltdown or contamination that might affect the lives of children or the fertility of adults has grave consequences.
...
"The government is telling us that we do not have enough children," says Kuniko Tomi, shopping at a market in Morioka in northern Japan. The mother of a toddler, she is worried about what to feed her daughter and if they are far away enough from the plant.

"They tell us not to be scared, but then they tell us not [to] give our children certain foods and drinks," she says, referring to the warnings on some produce and milk.

*"But if something happens to all these children because of the contamination ... maybe Japan will not have a future."*
...
*Conflicting reports*

Just as there are studies saying that even Chernobyl was not so bad, there is also no shortage of papers and articles showing the reverse - that Chernobyl's effects were dire and far-reaching.

the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the World Health Organisation estimated that 9,000 would eventually die from being exposed to radiation and that 50 deaths were directly connected to the explosion.

Compare that to what the National Commission for Radiation Protection in Ukraine told The Guardian newspaper in 2006 - that in that country alone, "500,000 people - perhaps more - have already died out of the 2 million people who were officially classed as victims of Chernobyl".

The point here is that once contaminants such as Iodine 131 and Caesium 137 (I-131 and Cs-137) get into the air, water and soil, there is a certain element of the unknown in determining the damage - current and future - they do to the exposed population. 

For example, in 2004, a group of Swedish scientists blamed 849 cancer cases in their country on radiation from Chernobyl. While their findings were questioned by the Swedish Radiation Protection Authority, there is no real way of calculating how many cancer deaths are linked to Chernobyl
...

----------


## devil21

> *-in response to a Kludge post-*
> The ability to create earthquakes has been around for a while (though I'm assuming that was a very sarcastic comment). Nikoli Tesla experimented with this in the early 1900s. As far as the cancer and drinking blood..I'm assuming that's a huge joke. The bigger joke is that you think they're trying to spread Christianity and "Democracy" when in reality they are attacking every religion (except maybe Jews?) and promoting a Fascism / Plutarchy agenda globally.
> 
> While your whole statement seems like a joke, the poor choice of words leads me to think that you actually believe some of it. That or you are the master of sarcasm


You must be new around here.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

7.4 Earthquake hits near previous quake off the coast of Miyagi

Water injection cooling continues on Reactors 1, 2, & 3.

Onagawa Nuclear Power Plants... 2 of the 3 external power grids have lost power. No release of radiation from the Onagawa Plant. One remaining power grid is being used to cool (Run Turbines, etc). 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onagawa...ar_Power_Plant



http://www.quakereports.com/?p=212

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

The three units remain in cold shutdown since the earthquake of 11 March. Two hundred people who lost their homes to the tsunami took refuge in the plant

Hell of a place to take shelter - esp if it looses cooling

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=13318962

7.1 Magnitude Quake Shuts Down 2 Japanese Nuclear Plants

Two power plants are reportedly off line following the 7.1 magnitude earthquake that struck coastal Miyagi Prefecture at 11:32 p.m. local time Thursday. The quake is the largest aftershock since the 9.0 quake struck the Northeast city of Sendai on March 11. 

...

Two plants in *Oginawa* and in *Aomori* Prefecture were knocked out in the latest tremor, but authorities said there was no threat of a radiation leak similar to that at the Fukushima plant.

The nuclear power plant in the fishing town Oginawa went offline following the aftershock. The plant served as a surprising ad hoc shelter in the wake of the March 11 quake but, authorities said, the reactor was intact.

The plant in Aomori is currently being cooled by an backup diesel generator, powering pumps to keep fuel rods there cool. All the rods are reportedly still fully submerged in a cooling pool.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company said there were "no anomalies detected" at the damaged Fukushima Daiichi plant, still on the verge of meltdown following March's historic 9.0 quake. All the workers at the Fukushima nuclear complex were evacuated today.

No elevated radiation levels were detected at the plant. 

...


Some of these other plants seem to be in a bit more fragile of a state than thought.  Might want to look into them some more.

----------


## devil21

Thought it couldn't get any worse?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wat...ar-power-plant




> Just out from Reuters:
> 
> •WATER LEAK FOUND AFTER LATEST QUAKE AT JAPAN'S ONAGAWA NUCLEAR PLANT BUT NO CHANGE IN RADIATION LEVELS-NHK
> •WATER LEAKS AT ONAGAWA NPP FROM REACTOR 1,2 SPENT FUEL POOLS 
> Onagawa is the plant which as we disclosed earlier experienced an almost critical power failure following today's new earthquake off the Sendai coast. One wonders just how much "undisclosed" news will start leaking. Surely just as the shut down of America is sending futures surging, this news should levitate the Nikkei by a few percent.



A water leak found at a different nuclear plant caused by today's 7+ earthquake.



All this destruction and the stock market here doesn't so much as flinch.  Jeez.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42103936...-asia-pacific/

Really good article - worth the click!

What are the odds? US nuke plants ranked by quake risk 

It turns out that the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission has calculated the odds of an earthquake causing catastrophic failure to a nuclear plant here. Each year, at the typical nuclear reactor in the U.S., there's a 1 in 74,176 chance of an earthquake strong enough to cause damage to the reactor's core, which could expose the public to radiation. No tsunami required. That's 10 times more likely than you winning $10,000 by buying a single ticket in the Powerball multistate lottery, where the chance is 1 in 723,145.



Based on 2008 data, a map of earthquake damage risk in the United States. The highest risk areas are purple, red and orange. 

The top 10
Here are the 10 nuclear power sites with the highest risk of an earthquake causing core damage, showing their NRC risk estimates based on 2008 and 1989 geological data.

1. Indian Point 3, Buchanan, N.Y.: 1 in 10,000 chance each year. Old estimate: 1 in 17,241. Increase in risk: 72 percent.

2. Pilgrim 1, Plymouth, Mass.: 1 in 14,493. Old estimate: 1 in 125,000. Increase in risk: 763 percent.

3. Limerick 1 and 2, Limerick, Pa.: 1 in 18,868. Old estimate: 1 in 45,455. Increase in risk: 141 percent.

4. Sequoyah 1 and 2, Soddy-Daisy, Tenn.: 1 in 19,608. Old estimate: 1 in 102,041. Increase in risk: 420 percent.

5. Beaver Valley 1, Shippingport, Pa.: 1 in 20,833. Old estimate: 1 in 76,923. Increase in risk: 269 percent.

6. Saint Lucie 1 and 2, Jensen Beach, Fla.: 1 in 21,739. Old estimate: N/A.

7. North Anna 1 and 2, Louisa, Va.: 1 in 22,727. Old estimate: 1 in 31,250. Increase in risk: 38 percent.

8. Oconee 1, 2 and 3, Seneca, S.C.: 1 in 23,256. Old estimate: 1 in 100,000. Increase in risk: 330 percent.

9. Diablo Canyon 1 and 2, Avila Beach, Calif.: 1 in 23,810. Old estimate: N/A.

10. Three Mile Island, Middletown, Pa.: 1 in 25,000. Old estimate: 1 in 45,455. Increase in risk: 82 percent.

(This short list of the top 10 sites, or plants, groups together reactors at the same site if they have the same risk rating, such as Sequoyah 1 and 2. The full list of 104 separate reactors is below at the bottom of the text.) 

====

Some things to ponder... This list is about the odds of a reactor breach caused by an earthquake that breaches the reactor containment core.  The damage to the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant was entirely, or almost entirely due to the tsunami.

Those odds are per year, so if it's 1:10,000 you have a 1:1,000 chance in 100 years.

It does not address possible damage and radiation release to spent fuel ponds which are much more vulnerable.

Sweet dreams! 

ps: Got KI?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world...us-902928.html

Poll: Few confident US ready for nuclear emergency

WASHINGTON — Most Americans doubt the U.S. government is prepared to respond to a nuclear emergency like the one in Japan, a new Associated Press-GfK poll shows. But it also shows few Americans believe such an emergency would occur.

Nevertheless, the disaster has turned more Americans against new nuclear power plants. The poll found that 60 percent of Americans oppose building more nuclear power plants. That's up from 48 percent who opposed it in an AP-Stanford University Poll in November 2009.

[...]

The poll finds that *about a fourth of those surveyed were highly confident that the U.S. government is prepared to handle a nuclear emergency, while almost three-fourths were only somewhat or not confident.*

But many people doubt such an emergency will happen in this country.

About three in 10 think such an emergency is extremely or very likely, compared with seven in 10 who think it is only somewhat or not likely. *Among people who think a disaster is highly likely, almost eight in 10 lack confidence the government would be ready.

Even among those think it's not too likely or not at all likely to happen, almost two-thirds still lacked confidence the government would be ready.*

[...]

====

So how confident should we be about our governments ability to handle a nuclear disaster?  Well, we know their stocks of KI are whoa-fully inadequate, and much of it is approaching it's expiration date - meaning it will be illegal to dispense, even though it's perfectly good after that date.  Gotta protect Pharma profits, ya know!

What about FEMA?  You know, the disaster response people.  The dirty little secret is that only 10% of FEMA does that.  The rest does COG (Continuity of Government).  You know, bunkers for big-wigs.  As to the disaster part, they are good at getting supplies to a disaster area, but train their people to take charge and "manage" things.  Like during Katrina - they became the problem.  They also relocate people, provide porta potties and MRE's.  They aren't so good at actual survival skills in a disaster.  I called a FEMA librarian looking for some old or more current civil defence literature.  Apparently they didn't keep any of it when they took over that program, but sent me a wild goose chase transferring me from bunker to bunker looking for it.  Not to be too down on them, they do or at least did teach at least one practical skill.  They run a sniper school.

DHS: really useless.  They are still distributing survival information advising 3 days worth of supplies, a first aid kit and advocating "duck and cover" (something that will get you killed if the roof falls down on top of you)

Department of Energy: did really useful and practical research in this area during the 60's and 70's.  They don't have publications other than research reports online if you can find them.  Most of it was done at ORNL.  The book Nuclear War Survival Skills which is a free download or can be cought hardcopy is based on some of this research.

Military: is up on this, but not for the public.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission: Distribute KI and evacuate to a relocation center.  That's about it from them.

Congress also passed a law that would draft emergency medical personel in case of such a disaster.  They are expected to go into a disaster area, but there is not protective equipment available for most of them.  They are not really trained that much in these areas and not at all in disaster medicine, nor are they supplied for it.  The focus disposable everything, one time use, minimal stock at hand and not trained at all in patient care after an hour.  Basically stabilize and transport.

Then there are DMAT teams and urban search and rescue teams, but these are too few and far apart.  They are also more civilian than government.

Perhaps after this, interest in educating the public in these areas will pick up, but it will probably be given to DHS, so anything coming from them will be about as practically useful as a copy of the anarchist cookbook.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110407006089.htm

TEPCO is considering installing additional cooling systems as part of a new plan to stabilize the reactors damaged by the March 11 disaster.

According to estimates released by the utility Wednesday, 70 percent of fuel rods at the No. 1 reactor have been damaged. At the Nos. 2 and 3 reactors, 25 percent to 30 percent of fuel rods have been damaged, the utility said.

The company based the damage assessment on levels of radioactive xenon and krypton detected in gas near the reactors' containment vessels.

...

On March 14, radiation levels at the containment vessel of the No. 3 reactor, where a large portion of the fuel rods was believed to have been exposed, were measured at 167 sieverts per hour. This figure is roughly equivalent to radiation levels 400 meters from ground zero after the 1945 U.S. atomic bombing of Hiroshima. 

...

Radiation levels at the No. 1 reactor peaked at 162 sieverts per hour on March 14, and the No. 2 reactor saw radiation levels peak at 138 sieverts per hour on March 15.

Those highs were measured after those reactors lost significant volumes of cooling water around their fuel rods, leaving large parts of them exposed to the air. This has also happened at the No. 3 reactor.

Injection of water has caused radiation levels at all the three reactors to fall. Current levels are between 20 and 31 sieverts, or just 11 percent to 22 percent of their peaks.

However, the current radiation levels are still far from safe. Two workers were killed in a 1999 nuclear accident in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, after being exposed radiation levels of between six and 18 sieverts. 

...

----------


## MozoVote

Whoa. That is not a misprint, I assume? Over 100 Sievert per hour? Hopefully those spikes were short duration.

Basically 1 Sievert an hour is: "You better run, every minute you stay, is shortening your life".

----------


## armstrong

bump for interest

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

These guys drove into the evac zone with a dosimeter and walked to within 1.5km of the plant...

----------


## Fox McCloud

It's not 100 Sv an hour, it's 100 µSv an hour.

For reference, that's 0.0001 Sv per hour, or, if you prefer, 0.1 mSV per hour.

50 mSv is the USA NRC occupational limit. 

Radiation sickness typically begins at 0.5-1 Sv (500-1000 mSv).

No idea what Chernobyl was, as a distance, but the highest dose the Chernobyl workers were exposed to was 200 sv per hour.

The highest found at this Japanese nuclear reactor was 1 Sv per hour (workers were not necessarily exposed to these levels).

So, while this still isn't something good, by any measure, comparing it to Chernobyl, at this point, seems to be a huge exaggeration; namely on the order of 20,000%.

----------


## MozoVote

Egads. Driving over that earthquake damaged bridge at the 4:25 mark looked like an invitation to a "Darwin award". It did not look like there is much help available in the exclusion zone!

----------


## Carson

> These guys drove into the evac zone with a dosimeter and walked to within 1.5km of the plant...


Wow. That was a trip...

and a long twelve minutes for me. It must have been much longer for them AND the real deal.

Everything they came across still looked pretty healthy.

I wonder what they were able to extrapolate from the readings?

----------


## Carson

> Egads. Driving over that earthquake damaged bridge at the 4:25 mark looked like an invitation to a "Darwin award". It did not look like there is much help available in the exclusion zone!



That looked bad and so did the hungry pit bull. I wouldn't want to mix one of them with any protective clothing your life depended on. Also my other favorite parts.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> It's not 100 Sv an hour, it's 100 µSv an hour.
> 
> For reference, that's 0.0001 Sv per hour, or, if you prefer, 0.1 mSV per hour.
> 
> 0.1mSV per hour is slightly less than double the USA NRC occupational limit. 
> 
> Radiation sickness typically begins at 0.5-1 Sv.
> 
> No idea what Chernobyl was, as a distance, but the highest dose the Chernobyl workers were exposed to was 20 sv per hour.
> ...


Can you back up your claim with a ref or two?
For now, I'm going with the article you are rebutting.

----------


## Fox McCloud

> Can you back up your claim with a ref or two?
> For now, I'm going with the article you are rebutting.


In the video itself, it's clear that the measurement is in "µSv" and not "Sv"; they hit around 100 µSv an hour, which is 0.0001 Sv an hour. (1 Sv = 1,000,000 µSv).

The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission limits annual exposure is 50,000 µSv (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-co...t020-1201.html)

Spiegel reports of 1 Sv pert hour: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...750773,00.html at the Japanese plant.

Chernobyl was around 200 Sv per hour (sorry, made a mistake in my last post).

You'd have to be in the 100 µSv radius for 21 days to exceed the US NRC limit...and you'd have to be there between 208 days to  year and 52 days before you experienced radiation sickness.

I'm not sure how fast things will decay, either; TheState would probably be better at answering that then I would.

As I said, it's not good, but it's not even close to Chernobyl levels.


You have to keep in mind, the anti-nuclear lobby is going to blow things wayyyyy out of proportion to bolster banning nuclear power; they did it during Nine Mile Island, so they'll very likely be doing it for this disaster as well (since it is worse then 9 mile).

----------


## DamianTV

I came across this rather disturbing attempt to poke fun at the situation a couple days ago...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> In the video itself, it's clear that the measurement is in "µSv" and not "Sv"; they hit around 100 µSv an hour, which is 0.0001 Sv an hour. (1 Sv = 1,000,000 µSv).
> 
> The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission limits annual exposure is 50,000 µSv (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-co...t020-1201.html)
> 
> Spiegel reports of 1 Sv pert hour: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...750773,00.html at the Japanese plant.


OK, you won me over.  Thanks!

btw: it's 3 mile island.

DamianTV - lol! - Dees ROCKS!

----------


## Fox McCloud

> OK, you won me over.  Thanks!
> 
> btw: it's 3 mile island.
> 
> DamianTV - lol! - Dees ROCKS!


I'm sorry, I seriously can't believe I actually typed "9 mile island".

----------


## DamianTV

Um, Godzilla was not based on true events...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Um, Godzilla was not based on true events...


WHAT???? - You have got to be kidding me!  Everyone knows Godzilla is real!  I've even got pics to prove it!

----------


## libertyjam

Not sure which article you guys are talking about but the one I looked was talking about radiation at the containment vessels and the > 100 Sv/hr (not uSv) in that area is completely believable as peaks on the dates listed.   Those were the same dates they were getting 1000 mSv/hr=1 Sv/hr readings at the main gate I think.  Makes complete sense to me.

edit: Oh I see you are talking about the video, not article. Did not watch that.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

growing rice is banned in Japan near reactor

----------


## MozoVote

I've seen 2400 micro Sievert per year referred to as a common combined dosage, from the sun, cosmic rays, and decaying uranium in rocks. My guess is the journalists exposed themselves to "a couple months worth" of background radiation while attempting this afternoon field trip.

There are some elderly people in the zone that refuse to leave. Staying there for weeks and enduring this level of exposure sounds legitimately risky.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Chaffetz

In November 2009 Chaffetz co-sponsored a bill in the House with Rep. Jim Matheson to block the importation of foreign nuclear waste into the United States, putting him directly at odds with Rep. Rob Bishop and Utah's Senators Bennett and Hatch who had historically supported importing foreign nuclear waste into Utah with restrictions.



So do we or don't we import foreign radioactive waste?  and if we do, where is it stored and how?

----------


## pcosmar

> So do we or don't we import foreign radioactive waste?


By choice?
Do we get a choice?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Not sure if this has been posted. University of Maryland plume tracking pages...

http://www.atmos.umd.edu/~tcanty/hysplit/

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Pretty sure it hasn't - thanks!

Looks like it's passing right over me

----------


## Carson

> Not sure if this has been posted. University of Maryland plume tracking pages...
> 
> http://www.atmos.umd.edu/~tcanty/hysplit/


New to me and it looks like a good one. It also shows the fallout... I mean rainfall.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Kinda surprised this hasn't been posted yet

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://artvoice.com/issues/v10n14/getting_a_grip

*Zombie reactors*

At a plant in Braidwood, Illinois, an old electrical line shorted, causing the reactor to shut down and a backup system to start pumping water. A valve, however, got stuck in the open position, causing water to overflow onto the floor, eventually finding a hole and leaking down onto an electrical panel, causing another short, which in turn caused two pumps circulating water between a nearby river and a heat exchanger to shut down. This caused a second reactor to shut down, which in turn opened valves to release pressure into the river. But these valves also stuck in the open position after the pressure was released, blowing sheet metal siding off of the containment building. This siding landed on power lines feeding external power to the cooling pumps on the first shut-down reactor. The power lines shorted out, cutting power to two more cooling system pumps and to the valves that allowed them to discharge heated water into the river. Without power, these valves also became stuck open, which allowed brackish river water to get sucked into and contaminate the cooling system. Meanwhile, an old auxiliary pump that kicked in burst a leak, causing more shorts in yet another control panel. This chain continued on for a while longer, opening up the possibility of a meltdown.

A similar chain of old parts failing took place at a reactor in Calvert Cliffs, Maryland, this time complicated by an auxiliary diesel generator that only ran for 15 seconds. At a plant in South Carolina, an old 4,160-volt electric cable shorted out and started a fire, which led to another electrical short, a circuit-breaker failure, more fire, and a potentially catastrophic loss of external power. A Wolf Creek, Kansas plant got hit by lightning, causing the reactor to shut down and the plant to lose its external backup power. This time, the diesel generator worked, powering an auxiliary pump which in turn sent a water pressure spike into the aging plumbing, which blow a hole in an old, rusted pipe.

In short, weve been very lucky. The Japanese havent been so lucky.

*Godzilla*

The Godzilla movie franchise, along with its knockoffs, culturally embodies the post-Hiroshima/Nagasaki Japanese unease with nuclear science. The story line is always the same. Radioactivity mutates creatures into monsters, usually coming from the sea, which is central to Japanese history and life. Radiation poisons the sea, and the sea spawns monsters that destroy Tokyo. It is tragically ironic that Fukushima Daiichi is now poisoning, among other things, the sea.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

A 7.1 earthquake hit the East coast of Japan about 20 minutes ago

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquak...sc0002n9v.html

Earthquake Details

    This event has been reviewed by a seismologist.

Magnitude	7.1
Date-Time	

    Monday, April 11, 2011 at 08:16:13 UTC
    Monday, April 11, 2011 at 05:16:13 PM at epicenter 

Location	37.007°N, 140.477°E
Depth	13.1 km (8.1 miles)
Region	EASTERN HONSHU, JAPAN
Distances	

    38 km (24 miles) W (260°) from Iwaki, Honshu, Japan
    71 km (44 miles) N (360°) from Mito, Honshu, Japan
    81 km (50 miles) S (179°) from Fukushima, Honshu, Japan
    163 km (101 miles) NNE (23°) from TOKYO, Japan

Location Uncertainty	horizontal +/- 12 km (7.5 miles); depth +/- 3.6 km (2.2 miles)
Parameters	NST=581, Nph=584, Dmin=209.3 km, Rmss=0.69 sec, Gp= 18°,
M-type=regional moment magnitude (Mw), Version=C
Source	

    U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center:
    World Data Center for Seismology, Denver

Event ID	usc0002n9v

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc....quake/?hpt=T1

Magnitude 6.6-quake jolts Japan coast

(CNN) -- Fires burned in northeastern Japan Monday evening after a powerful earthquake rattled the region, sending a landslide into Iwaki City, authorities said.

A preliminary estimate put the quake's magnitude at 7.1, which was later lowered to 6.6, according to the U.S. Geological Survey. A series of smaller quakes continued to shake the region. Residents in Tokyo also felt the jolts.

A tsunami warning issued by Japan's Meteorological Agency was later canceled.

Monday's initial quake was centered about 164 kilometers (101 miles) northeast of Tokyo, or about 50 kilometers (31 miles) southwest of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

Workers at the plant were asked to evacuate for a time, but later returned to resume their efforts to cool the troubled nuclear facility.

The Tohoku Electric Power Company said 220,000 households and businesses in Fukushima were without power after Monday's quake, which came a month after a deadly magnitude-9 quake and tsunami devastated the island nation.

----------


## Carson

*How nuclear apologists mislead the world over radiation*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ists-radiation

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

ESA space analysis has revealed Japan is sliding east and down into the Pacific Ocean, especially the region of Japan in prefectures; Dendai, Morioka, & Fukushima. They always say that California west of the San Andreas fault is sliding into the ocean which is inaccurate, since the earth's plates are shifting sideways against one another. Japan is doomed, the pacific plate on the eastern side of Japan is shifting down and pulling the Asian plate ridge down with it.





> 1.* Latest Major event and response April 9th:*
> 03:29 Nitrogen injection valve was closed in order to switch to the high purity nitrogen gas generator. (04:10 The valve was reopened.)
> 13:10 Transfer of water from the main condenser to the CST was completed at Unit 2.
> April 10th:
> 09:30 Transfer of water from the main condenser to the CST was completed at Unit 1.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...11-709790.html

Japan is considering, according to government sources, raising the nuclear accident severity level to seven from 5 after the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan on Monday said a preliminary calculation showed the Fukishima Daiichi nuclear plant had at some point released up to 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour, Kyodo News reported.

Haruki Madarame, chairman of the government commission, said it has estimated that the release of 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour lasted for several hours and that has since lowered to under 1 terabecquerel per hour, Kyodo reported. 

...

----------


## Carson

> http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...11-709790.html
> 
> Japan is considering, according to government sources, raising the nuclear accident severity level to seven from 5 after the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan on Monday said a preliminary calculation showed the Fukishima Daiichi nuclear plant had at some point released up to 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour, Kyodo News reported.
> 
> Haruki Madarame, chairman of the government commission, said it has estimated that the release of 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour lasted for several hours and that has since lowered to under 1 terabecquerel per hour, Kyodo reported. 
> 
> ...


I don't see any of the articles on this news linking it to the explosion at reactor three...yet.

----------


## raiha

New photos..some taken by a drone:

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-...hi-photos6.htm

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

video from drone/helicopter of site from a couple of days ago.  Same source footage stills above were taken from:

http://www.sciencedump.com/content/r...medium=twitter

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Strontium fond in soul near plant

News conference about plant will air at 2:45pm EST C-SPAN3

http://cspan.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN3/

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

This video reminds me of when (Class 5) Hurricane Iniki turned towards us on Kaua'i. We were listening to the radio and an announcer reported the change, ending with the statement, "Now is not the time to panic". We all turned to each other with WTF looks...

----------


## EndDaFed

> It's not 100 Sv an hour, it's 100 µSv an hour.
> 
> For reference, that's 0.0001 Sv per hour, or, if you prefer, 0.1 mSV per hour.
> 
> 50 mSv is the USA NRC occupational limit.


The limit is 50miliSv of exposure for a year not per hour. So for example a dose of 100 microSV/hour one would reach the 50miliSv dose in 20 days. 




> No idea what Chernobyl was, as a distance, but the highest dose the Chernobyl workers were exposed to was 200 sv per hour.
> 
> The highest found at this Japanese nuclear reactor was 1 Sv per hour (workers were not necessarily exposed to these levels).


The highest recored is 100 Sv (meter's maximum limit) an hour at number 1 reactor and 50 Sv an hour at 2, and 70 Sv at 3. They are not publishing the numbers for reactor 4. 

Reactor 1: http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1
Reactor 2: http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=2
Reactor 3: http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=3

----------


## libertygrl

Fukushima radiation taints US milk supplies at levels 300% higher than EPA maximums
Monday, April 1
(NaturalNews) The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) continues to release new data showing that various milk and water supply samples from across the US are testing increasingly high for radioactive elements such as Iodine-131, Cesium-134, and Cesium-137, all of which are being emitted from the ongoing Fukushima Daiichia nuclear fallout. As of April 10, 2011, 23 US water supplies have tested positive for radioactive Iodine-131 (http://opendata.socrata.com/w/4ig7-...), and worst of all, milk samples from at least three US locations have tested positive for Iodine-131 at levels exceeding EPA maximum containment levels (MCL) (http://opendata.socrata.com/w/pkfj-...).

As far as the water supplies are concerned, it is important to note that the EPA is only testing for radioactive Iodine-131. There are no readings or data available for cesium, uranium, or plutonium -- all of which are being continuously emitted from Fukushima, as far as we know -- even though these elements are all much more deadly than Iodine-131. Even so, the following water supplies have thus far tested positive for Iodine-131, with the dates they were collected in parenthesis to the right:

Los Angeles, Calif. - 0.39 pCi/l (4/4/11)
Philadelphia (Baxter), Penn. - 0.46 pCi/l (4/4/11)
Philadelphia (Belmont), Penn. - 1.3 pCi/l (4/4/11)
Philadelphia (Queen), Penn. - 2.2 pCi/l (4/4/11)
Muscle Shoals, Al. - 0.16 pCi/l (3/31/11)
Niagara Falls, NY - 0.14 pCi/l (3/31/11)
Denver, Colo. - 0.17 pCi/l (3/31/11)
Detroit, Mich. - 0.28 pCi/l (3/31/11)
East Liverpool, Oh. - 0.42 pCi/l (3/30/11)
Trenton, NJ - 0.38 pCi/l (3/29/11)
Painesville, Oh. - 0.43 pCi/l (3/29/11)
Columbia, Penn. - 0.20 pCi/l (3/29/11)
Oak Ridge (4442), Tenn. - 0.28 pCi/l (3/29/11)
Oak Ridge (772), Tenn. - 0.20 pCi/l (3/29/11)
Oak Ridge (360), Tenn. - 0.18 pCi/l (3/29/11)
Helena, Mont. - 0.18 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Waretown, NJ - 0.38 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Cincinnati, Oh. - 0.13 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Pittsburgh, Penn. - 0.36 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Oak Ridge (371), Tenn. - 0.63 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Chattanooga, Tenn. - 1.6 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Boise, Id. - 0.2 pCi/l (3/28/11)
Richland, Wash. - 0.23 pCi/l (3/28/11)

Again, these figures do not include the other radioactive elements being spread by Fukushima, so there is no telling what the actual cumulative radiation levels really were in these samples. The figures were also taken two weeks ago, and were only just recently reported. If current samples were taken at even more cities, and if the tests conducted included the many other radioactive elements besides Iodine-131, actual contamination levels would likely be frighteningly higher.

But in typical government fashion, the EPA still insists that everything is just fine, even though an increasing amount of US water supplies are turning up positive for even just the radioactive elements for which the agency is testing -- and these levels seem to be increasing as a direct result of the situation at the Fukushima plant, which continues to worsen with no end in sight (http://www.naturalnews.com/032035_F...).

Water may be the least of our problems, however. New EPA data just released on Sunday shows that at least three different milk samples -- all from different parts of the US -- have tested positive for radioactive Iodine-131 at levels that exceed the EPA maximum thresholds for safety, which is currently set at 3.0 pico Curies per Liter (pCi/l).

In Phoenix, Ariz., a milk sample taken on March 28, 2011, tested at 3.2 pCi/l. In Little Rock, Ark., a milk sample taken on March 30, 2011, tested at 8.9 pCi/l, which is almost three times the EPA limit. And in Hilo, Hawaii, a milk sample collected on April 4, 2011, tested at 18 pCi/l, a level six times the EPA maximum safety threshold. The same Hawaii sample also tested at 19 pCi/l for Cesium-137, which has a half life of 30 years (http://www.naturalnews.com/031992_r...), and a shocking 24 pCi/l for Cesium-134, which has a half life of just over two years (http://opendata.socrata.com/w/pkfj-...).

Why is this milk contamination significant? Milk, of course, typically represents the overall condition of the food chain because cows consume grass and are exposed to the same elements as food crops and water supplies. In other words, when cows' milk starts testing positive for high levels of radioactive elements, this is indicative of radioactive contamination of the entire food supply.

And even with the milk samples, the EPA insanely says not to worry as its 3.0 pCi/l threshold is allegedly only for long-term exposure. But the sad fact of the matter is that the Fukushima situation is already a long-term situation. Not only does it appear that the Fukushima reactor cores are continuing to melt, since conditions at the plant have not gotten any better since the earthquake and tsunami, but many of the radioactive elements that have already been released in previous weeks have long half lives, and have spread halfway around the world.

The other problem with the EPA's empty reassurances that radiation levels are too low to have a negative impact on humans is the fact that the agency does not even have an accurate grasp on the actual aggregate exposure to radiation from all sources (water, food, air, rain, etc.). When you combine perpetual exposure from multiple sources with just the figures that have already been released, there is a very real threat of serious harm as a result of exposure.

The EPA and other government agencies are constantly comparing Fukushima radiation to background and airplane radiation in an attempt to minimize the severity of exposure, even though these are two completely different kinds of radiation exposure.

No safe level of radiation from nuclear fallout
Background and airplane radiation is an external emitter of radiation, while Fukushima-induced radiation in food and water is an internal emitter. The former, which is considered "normal" radiation, hits your body from the outside, while the latter goes directly inside your body and into your digestive tract. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the immense difference between the two, and the much more severe consequences associated with literally ingesting radiation verses having it hit your skin.

In reality, there really is no safe level of radiation. No matter how many times the EPA and others repeat the lie that radiation levels are too low to have any significant impact, the statement itself is patently false. Many experts, including Jeff Patterson, DO, former President of Physicians for Social Responsibility, have stated that radiation exposure at any level is unsafe, and they are correct.

"There is no safe level of radionuclide exposure, whether from food, water or other sources. Period," said Patterson. "Exposure to radionuclides, such as Iodine-131 and Cesium-137, increases the incidence of cancer. For this reason, every effort must be taken to minimize the radionuclide content in food and water."

And now that radioactive levels in some areas have actually exceeded EPA maximums, Patterson's statement is even more chilling. So while the mainstream media continues its near-total blackout on Fukushima, the situation is actually becoming more severe than it has ever been. Time will tell how severe the long-term effects of this disaster will be, but one thing is for sure -- Fukushima radiation cannot and should not be taken lightly..

Sources for this story include:

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032048_ra...#ixzz1JKNYJ52b

----------


## libertygrl

Personally, I don't know who or what to believe:


Physicist Michio Kaku says no need to panic:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1879164354

----------


## Fox McCloud

> The limit is 50miliSv of exposure for a year not per hour. So for example a dose of 100 microSV/hour one would reach the 50miliSv dose in 20 days.


If you'll notice, I elaborated on this in a later post, but you either missed it or chose to ignore it.




> The highest recored is 100 Sv (meter's maximum limit) an hour at number 1 reactor and 50 Sv an hour at 2, and 70 Sv at 3. They are not publishing the numbers for reactor 4. 
> 
> Reactor 1: http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1
> Reactor 2: http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=2
> Reactor 3: http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=3


Thanks for this, though, the higher of the two numbers is the Sv/h inside the containment vessel; they're definitely worrying, but still lower than Chernobyl---Spiegel's published measurement was "near" the plant.

----------


## DamianTV

Well, Japan has now officially declared this to be a 7 (on a scale of 1 - 7) for the severity of the risk.  Same as Chernobyl.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...rt-level-seven

----------


## puppetmaster

> Fukushima radiation taints US milk supplies at levels 300% higher than EPA maximums
> Monday, April 1
> (NaturalNews) The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) continues to release new data showing that various milk and water supply samples from across the US are testing increasingly high for radioactive elements such as Iodine-131, Cesium-134, and Cesium-137, all of which are being emitted from the ongoing Fukushima Daiichia nuclear fallout. As of April 10, 2011, 23 US water supplies have tested positive for radioactive Iodine-131 (http://opendata.socrata.com/w/4ig7-...), and worst of all, milk samples from at least three US locations have tested positive for Iodine-131 at levels exceeding EPA maximum containment levels (MCL) (http://opendata.socrata.com/w/pkfj-...).
> 
> As far as the water supplies are concerned, it is important to note that the EPA is only testing for radioactive Iodine-131. There are no readings or data available for cesium, uranium, or plutonium -- all of which are being continuously emitted from Fukushima, as far as we know -- even though these elements are all much more deadly than Iodine-131. Even so, the following water supplies have thus far tested positive for Iodine-131, with the dates they were collected in parenthesis to the right:
> 
> Los Angeles, Calif. - 0.39 pCi/l (4/4/11)
> Philadelphia (Baxter), Penn. - 0.46 pCi/l (4/4/11)
> Philadelphia (Belmont), Penn. - 1.3 pCi/l (4/4/11)
> ...


even if this half true it's scary....think about it

----------


## LibertyRevolution

Is it time to at least consider putting explosives on the inland side of the plant and blowing it to slide the entire mess into the ocean?
I mean the water there is already fubar..at least if its under the ocean it will stop the airborne radiation...

I'm really starting to get pissed off at how this is being handled...
I took one look at the pics of reactor 3 and 4 and a month ago and new this was already a lost battle...

----------


## steph3n

> even if this half true it's scary....think about it


no, it isn't scary. Stop worrying about things you can't control.

----------


## Carson

> video from drone/helicopter of site from a couple of days ago.  Same source footage stills above were taken from:
> 
> http://www.sciencedump.com/content/r...medium=twitter



Notice what looks like a round reactor dome size hole in the roof beams? Way to the left. They don't look like they are in the right position for where the reactor is but they may have been lined up before the roof blew and the structure laid down.

It is at 1:42. I also saw it in some of the earlier drone pictures.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

WARNING: Continuous F-Bombs ^%$$#$#%$!$T

Quite the rant. Guy is a bit nuts, loves Hamilton...

----------


## Carson

> WARNING: Continuous F-Bombs ^%$$#$#%$!$T
> 
> Quite the rant. Guy is a bit nuts, loves Hamilton...


Wow. The truth is finally out.

I'd hate to see him pissed off.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

At risk of repeating myself from day 1: get the cement pouring...

We have leaking containment and reactors, and we have open air reactions occurring in melting piles of spent fuel rods. This has been putting out garbage continuously for weeks now, which is why it is at the highest rating.

----------


## S.Shorland

Website that quantifies the real risks to health from independent reports on the ground,collated by experts. (Dr.Christopher Busby).He also heard recently during a conference that Chernobyl was partially a nuclear explosion.See him on tuesdays' alex jones show parts 7/8? on youtube posted by astonisher.
http://llrc.org/

----------


## raiha

The good thing about it being a seven from Japan Govt and Tepco's point of view, is that the whole shebang can now blow sky high and pollute the entire galaxy for aeons, and yet it will still be a seven. Strange scale.




> This figure is just for Caesium 137; it does not measure the alpha-emitting radionuclides Plutonium and Uranium. These contaminants are the real threat to health. No official sources are saying anything about this hazard although hundreds of tonnes of Uranium and Plutonium are missing from the spent fuel ponds. It's known that up to 1760 tonnes of spent fuel was stored on site. Some of it was in pools in the roofs of reactor containments which these high resolution aerial photos show to be absent, following explosions.


That is a worrisome article S. Shorland. How can hundreds of tonnes of Uranium and Plutonium disappear?




> Early signs of health damage: We have received information from people in the Tokyo region stating that they have swollen lymph nodes and sores in their nostrils. These are indicators that they have probably inhaled particles of Plutonium and Uranium.


Dr Busby thinks the so-called hydrogen explosion was in reality a nuclear explosion. He thinks radiation 72,000 times worse than Hiroshima. Who do you believe around here?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/...119754919.html

the utility is thinking about moving exposed radioactive fuel rods to a safer place, away from the damage.

Japan's government says some of spent fuel rods for at least one of the reactors have partially melted.

----
a comment:

"... eventually cost Japan up to $300 billion, making it the world's worst natural disaster." Hundreds of thousands of people died in the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004. It is a little insensitive to say that the cost of Japan's disaster makes it therefore "the world's worst" as if disasters are measured only in terms of dollars of damage.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-plant-updates

Core adn fuel integrity:  Damaged: #1-70%, #2- 30%, #3-25%
Core cooling requiring AC #1-3 not functional
Building integrity: #1,3 and 4 - severely damaged
Water level at the reactor pressure vessel: #1-3 fuel exposed
fuel integrity in the spent fuel ponds: #1-2 unknown, #3 damage suspected, #4 possible damage, 
cooling of spent fuel rods: #1-4 water spraying continues, #5-6 cooling capability restored.
control room - lighting works, but no other AC

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0110413x1.html

Radiation surges above 4's fuel pool

Radiation has risen to high levels above the spent-fuel pool at reactor No. 4 and its temperature is rising, the nuclear safety agency said Wednesday, indicating the fuel rods have been further damaged and emitting radioactive substances.

The radiation level 6 meters above the spent-fuel storage pool at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant was measured at 84 millisieverts per hour Tuesday. Normally, it's 0.1 microsievert.

The temperature of the pool was 90 degrees, compared with 84 before it caught fire on March 15 in a suspected hydrogen explosion, the agency said.

...

Tepco said it is planning to move the spent fuel rods out of the storage pools at reactors 1 through 4 so they can be moved to a safer location, although details on when and how haven't been decided yet.

Some of the options Tepco is considering include pulling the rods out with a crane or building a special structure nearby to pull them out.

But these tasks will be tough because the site is so radioactive and cluttered with debris from last month's hydrogen explosions. Meanwhile, the water level of radiation-contaminated water in the tunnel-like trench at Unit 2 dropped by 4.3 cm Wednesday morning after Tepco started pumping lethally radioactive water from its flooded turbine room into a nearby storage facility the day before.

Getting the 6,000 tons of water out is expected to take four to five days , Tepco said.

NISA also said the utility was rushing to finish installing seven steel sheets around a seawater intake for reactor 2 later in the day and silt fences near intakes for reactors 3 and 4 to hinder the spread of thousands of tons of radioactive water it dumped into the ocean.

...

----------


## raiha

Nuclear Engineer Arnie Gundersen demonstrates how Fukushima's fuel rods melted and shattered:

http://vimeo.com/22209827

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> a comment:
> 
> "*... eventually cost Japan up to $300 billion, making it the world's worst natural disaster."* Hundreds of thousands of people died in the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004. It is a little insensitive to say that the cost of Japan's disaster makes it therefore "the world's worst" as if disasters are measured only in terms of dollars of damage.


 Yes cost-wise, it's estimated between $300-350 Billion. I laughed at one early press release on the financial shows, the costs estimates were, "between $10-15 Billion and US based AFLAC and AIG insurance backers are not in any risk." 

Wanta bet there will be massive tax credits and bailouts for the Insurance industry? They're one the biggest donors to political campaigns. Just watch...

----------


## raiha

Many cattle are dying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kNVWIdWpG0

----------


## MozoVote

Yuck. Definately don't go strolling near the fuel pile at reactor 4.

At 84 MilliSievert per hour, you would be experiencing a dose of "normal background radiation per year" every two and a half minutes.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42578432...s-asiapacific/

More signs of fuel rod damage at Japan nuke plant

TOKYO — Water in the spent fuel storage pool at the No. 4 reactor at Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant has risen to about 194 degrees in one sign that spent fuel rods may be damaged, according to a report in NHK World.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company or TEPCO discovered Tuesday that the temperature was much higher than the normal level of about 104 degrees.

TEPCO's analysis of a 400-milliliter water sample taken Tuesday from the No. 4 unit's spent nuclear fuel pool revealed the damage to some fuel rods for the first time, according to Kyodo News. The sample detected higher-than-usual levels of radioactive iodine-131, cesium-134 and cesium-137.

----------


## osan

> Wow. The truth is finally out.
> 
> I'd hate to see him pissed off.


He is a bit over the top, but he's also more or less on the money.

----------


## Carson

> Many cattle are dying.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kNVWIdWpG0


That sort of says it all.

The video of those two Russian dudes getting within 1.5 km of the plant showed dogs and cattle still healthy looking. I wonder how they are doing.


P.S. I was thinking about these cows this morning. They are the saddest sounding cows I have ever heard. 

When I first watched the video I was thinking they were dying from radiation. Maybe they are starving after being abandoned by people fleeing the radiation. I see some near the end of the video lined up eating. Even they look pretty emaciated.

Anyway sad, sad sounding cows.

----------


## osan

> Well, Japan has now officially declared this to be a 7 (on a scale of 1 - 7) for the severity of the risk.  Same as Chernobyl.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...rt-level-seven


Methinks they may have to tack 3 or more additional graduations on to that scale.  At the rate things are going, this stands to leave Chernobyl in the dust for severity.

Thank you Japan for $#@!ing us all.

----------


## EndDaFed

Tepco says fuel rods in the spent-fuel-pool of reactor #4 are damaged, fission may have resumed.

http://hken.ibtimes.com/articles/134...hi-damaged.htm

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-unravel.html

Japan's nuclear clean-up continues to unravel

Japan's nuclear clean-up continued to unravel as officials admitted there may be too much radioactive water to pump out of the damaged power plant.

"It may be difficult to completely remove the contaminated water and so allow work to proceed," he said. "We may need to think of other options.

Confirming that there were 20,000 tonnes of contaminated water to remove from the basement and tunnel next to reactor number 2 alone, Mr Nishiyama said: "We will transfer the water next to the central radiation disposal building. We do not have a plan beyond that."

----------


## raiha

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-unravel.html
> * We do not have a plan beyond that*."


I wonder how many are changing their minds about the safety of nuclear energy as this unfolds. Always the problem... what do we do with the waste? No-one has resolved it and Tepco are running around with their heads chopped off trying this, trying that and failing.
Not knowing what to do in a worst case scenario is criminal. 

What happens when the Fukushima 50 get too sick to work? What then? Hopefully they'll yank the technocrat out of his hospital bed to get him to pick up the mop. And all his corporate managers.

----------


## acptulsa

> Not knowing what to do in a worst case scenario is criminal.


Astounding, isn't it?

Will someone explain to me how all of these so-called backup systems involve electricity?  Main system is powered by the reactor and secondary system is powered off the grid and emergency backup is a diesel generator and there you are.  When I was a kid an emergency backup had a hand crank on it.

----------


## Carson

I was thinking something a simple as a water tower and a toilet bowl float could have kept the storage tanks full. 

Nothing makes much sense now adays. I rented a car and the darn thing locks you in after you start it and leave. Just what I need if I get in trouble is to not be able to even get out like those people in on television trapped in the car sting operations. It has more bells and whistles than I could ever afford to keep working.

----------


## acptulsa

> I was thinking something a simple as a water tower and a toilet bowl float could have kept the storage tanks full.


It would appear they didn't think gravity reliable enough.  Only complex, high tech, power dependent systems will do.  Old tech for a nuclear plant--how horrible.  Better to irradiate the entire nation, I guess, than insult the sophistication of the plant.

----------


## Texan4Life

> It would appear they didn't think gravity reliable enough.  Only complex, high tech, power dependent systems will do.  Old tech for a nuclear plant--how horrible.  Better to irradiate the entire nation, I guess, than insult the sophistication of the plant.


another thought is to use a thermosiphon system like many engine from the early 1900's. Like the model T. No water pump was needed. The water circulated itself because of the different temperatures (hot in the engine, cool in the radiator)

----------


## puppetmaster

so the little news  we're getting from the media about this, kind of makes me worry. it's like they're covering up something. how about the japanese current that flows up by alaska, are the fish in the pacific going to be contaminated? Have the japanese asked us not to make a big deal out of this or they will not loan us any more money?  Seems way to quite.....

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

http://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/l...-1530-utc.html

Changes to Fukushima Daiichi Plant Status

Freshwater injection is confirmed to continue for Units 1 to 3. The transfer of contaminated water from Unit 2 turbine building to the condenser was started (12 April) and suspended (13 April) to check for any leakage. Temperature at the Unit 1 outlet nozzle shows a decreasing trend continuously for several days now.

To minimize migration of contaminated water to the open sea, on the ocean-side of the Inlet Bar Screen of Unit 2, the two temporary steel plates (3 plates in total) were installed to stop water from leaking out of the inlet bay (around 08:30 untill 10:00, 13 April). In addition, a silt fence to prevent the spread of the contaminated water was installed in front of the Screen of Units 3 and 4. (13:50 UTC, 13 April).

In Unit 1 fresh water is being continuously injected into the RPV through the feed-water line at an indicated flow rate of 6 m3/h using a temporary electric pump with off-site power. In Units 2 and 3 fresh water is being continuously injected through the fire extinguisher lines at an indicated rate of 7 m3/h using temporary electric pumps with off-site power.

Nitrogen gas is being injected into the Unit 1 containment vessel to reduce the possibility of hydrogen combustion within the containment vessel. The pressure in this containment vessel has stabilised. The pressure in the RPV is increasing as indicated on one channel of instrumentation. The other channel shows RPV pressure as stable. In Units 2 and 3 Reactor Pressure Vessel and Drywell pressures remain at atmospheric pressure.

RPV temperatures remain above cold shutdown conditions in all Units, (typically less than 95 °C). In Unit 1 the temperature at the feed water nozzle of the RPV is 206 °C and at the bottom of the RPV is 119 °C. In Unit 2 the temperature at the feed water nozzle of the RPV is 167 °C. In Unit 3 the temperature at the feed water nozzle of the RPV is 92 °C and at the bottom of the RPV is 119 °C.

On 12 April in Units 3 and 4, fresh water (35 T and 195 T respectively) was sprayed over the Spent Fuel Pools using a Concrete Pump Truck. A sample of the water in the spent fuel pool was collected for analysis.

There has been no change in status in Unit 5 and 6 and the Common Spent Fuel Storage Facility.

----------


## osan

> Not knowing what to do in a worst case scenario is criminal.





> Astounding, isn't it?


Given the historical record of human behavior, not really.




> Will someone explain to me how all of these so-called backup systems involve electricity?


Fancy schmancy sells.  It sells partly because of the shiny, glittery, high tech aspect... "oooo... pretty...", but equally importantly it paints the misleading impression that the situation is under complete control.  This latter bit is absolutely essential in the PR campaigns for these lead balloons.  They will never float, but if we paint them to look like rubber balloons, the dip$#@! public will accept them.  I have witnessed and worked within this framework of bull$#@!  my entire professional life.  It has become the foundation upon which our economy is based, and that is no exaggeration.  




> When I was a kid an emergency backup had a hand crank on it.


The Civil War was long ago.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

Japan to Move Capitol ?

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=127294

Hell of a picture at the link



What the hell is burning there?

----------


## raiha

> According to experts, should a 7.2 magnitude earthquake shake Tokyo, the casualties will be around 11 000, some 210 000 will be injured and the material damage will be worth about USD 1 B


And exactly how much will it cost to move, lock, stock and barrel, Tokyo?

 As we saw with the Kobe quake, no guarantees an earthquake won't strike in Osaka. 
I reckon they should move Tokyo to Alice Springs. It would be safe from earthquakes and radiation.

----------


## raiha

> so the little news  we're getting from the media about this, kind of makes me worry. it's like they're covering up something. how about the japanese current that flows up by alaska, are the fish in the pacific going to be contaminated? Have the japanese asked us not to make a big deal out of this or they will not loan us any more money?  Seems way to quite.....


I saw this in the comment section of the Oil Drum (which is fascinating IMO)




> Iaato on April 14, 2011:
> "Ugh, it's here at 61 North. I brought groceries in and scanned them; the food was clean, but the front carpet was approximately double background, ~12-15 clicks per minute. Alaskans take their shoes off at the door; and the rug is washable. But it's here. No more seafood for me.
> 
> 
>  Goodmanj on April 14, 2011: Interesting. What was your rug like before Fukushima? You're doing a controlled experiment, right?
> 
> Right?
> 
>  Iaato on April 14: You bet, a daily time series. The rug has been the same as background daily, 5-10 CPM, until now. I have now rolled up the other area rugs in the house, and will cover the raised beds tomorrow."


http://radiationnetwork.com/AlaskaHawaii.htm These people have set up their own monitoring system and it also shows their results for all of USA. Arizona and South of Montreal look highest but still not constituting a major alert. However if the thing keeps leaking....

----------


## Carson

> Japan to Move Capitol ?
> 
> http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=127294
> 
> Hell of a picture at the link
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is burning there?


Looks like a transformer or wiring but I'm just guessing.

----------


## raiha

These pics have been enlarged and explanations given as to what they say is going on there which I find demystifying and illuminating...and...well...dreadful.

http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/r4.html

Sorry if they have been posted before. I'm losing track of what I see where!

----------


## Carson

> These pics have been enlarged and explanations given as to what they say is going on there which I find demystifying and illuminating...and...well...dreadful.
> 
> http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/r4.html
> 
> Sorry if they have been posted before. I'm losing track of what I see where!


Great Pictures! Best yet.

----------


## Carson

Notice the heat picture at the beginning of this page. If the explosion at reactor 3 was the core it may have horked up its innards and the heat lines by the tower at the top of the page may be rods. MOX rods?

http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/R3.html

Somewhere they showed pictures of possible rod casing circled on the ground (car near by for comparison). I was thinking these are the same but I can't seem to find the picture. I also thought there was a something showing how long the rod packages are. Can't find that either.

Also did you see how the explosion of three bowed in the wall on four?


P.S. I finally found the pictures I was looking for on this page.

http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/rods.html

----------


## DamianTV

Is this our future?

----------


## S.Shorland

What is the pantomime dame figure standing at the right hand side base of the reactor?



> These pics have been enlarged and explanations given as to what they say is going on there which I find demystifying and illuminating...and...well...dreadful.
> 
> http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/r4.html
> 
> Sorry if they have been posted before. I'm losing track of what I see where!

----------


## S.Shorland

You can't use current models to predict cancer rates either! See video and other information at llrc.org



  Here at 9:30 he relates how two Russian researchers he talked to at a Berlin conference told him that the Chernobyl explosion had a nuclear component.The whole video is interesting as he talks about another Russian fuel rod explosion in the fiftys.

----------


## Carson

> What is the pantomime dame figure standing at the right hand side base of the reactor?


I don't know but it looks way to big to be human. Sure looks freaky though.

----------


## S.Shorland

At least there's no horse.

----------


## Carson

Yah. We've got that going for us.

P.S. Sort of looks to be holding a bridle though!

----------


## raiha

Notice the heat picture at the beginning of this page. If the explosion at reactor 3 was the core it may have horked up its innards and the heat lines by the tower at the top of the page may be rods. MOX rods?Q
http://www.houseoffoust.com/fukushima/R3.html

Whereever I look in the pictures, I see rods (like the pics when you are a kid and you have to find monkeys and birds hiding in trees) when they are probably only part of the external structure.
If it was R3, yes they would be mox and I would prefer they did not explode out of of a reactor well. (for the poor bastards' sakes who work there.)


Somewhere they showed pictures of possible rod casing circled on the ground (car near by for comparison). I was thinking these are the same but I can't seem to find the picture. I also thought there was a something showing how long the rod packages are. Can't find that either.

Also did you see how the explosion of three bowed in the wall on four?

_Yeah that's not pretty._

----------


## raiha

> At least there's no horse.


What? As in a Horsewoman of the Apocalypse?

Has anyone noticed how quiet it is in the news since the thing has gone to a seven? Somehow I am not reassured.

----------


## armstrong

bump for way to quiet

----------


## s35wf

> bump for way to quiet


way to quiet.  and also upon reading news i find this this morning; mind u not a US article; but from the UK about here!  
*Largest tornado outbreak on record leaves 45 dead and thousands  homeless... and forecasts say more violent storms are on the way* 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1JzL0vCPg
 


I will also mention that a couple of nights ago; i had watched a guy on youtube about weather, haarp, etc.... He had predicted "something" to happen in this area!  he thought it would be either a big storm or EQ.  Here's the storm.  and there has been some small seismic activity in ARK over the last week as well.

----------


## LibertyRevolution

Here is the update:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...rss_topstories

Sent in robots to reactor 2. Its 100+F, 99% humidity, lots of tons of water missing, assumed is flooding tunnels and turbine room.
Cameras fogged up, had to pull them out. Says time to send in the humans again...

Why does the robot camera not have a plexiglass sealed box around it with a wiper blade or something ffs...
Why are they not dumping boron sand and concrete into this mess yet, what do they think there is left to salvage.
Someone needs to start a class action lawsuit against TEPCO, Japan, the international nuclear oversight for allowing this level 7 event to continue in open air.

----------


## AFPVet

At least in Russia, the techs had the common sense to seal the damn thing. What are these guys waiting for?

----------


## KramerDSP

This is $#@!ed up. And I agree it is waaaaayyyyy too quiet.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

> At least in Russia, the techs had the common sense to seal the damn thing. What are these guys waiting for?


Maybe because what they did at Chernobyl was insufficient

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/worl...eld-54983.html




> KYIV, Ukraine—Ukraine fell short on Tuesday of raising the $1 billion it needs to build a new shield around the Chernobyl reactor, which is still emitting dangerous levels of radiation 25 years after it exploded...  The single biggest country donor was the United States at $123 million,... The current steel and concrete sarcophagus that surrounds the No. 4 reactor at Chernobyl was hastily erected in the aftermath of the April 26, 1986, accident since workers could only be exposed to the radiation in short spurts. Since then, it has required considerable maintenance as cracks have developed due to weathering and the poor construction at the outset... The new cover will be much larger, about as long as two football fields, and its arched roof twice as high as the Statue of Liberty, at about 350 feet. But because it’s still too dangerous to build at the plant site itself, it is being constructed nearby and _will be rolled into place_, where it will stay for the next 100 years...

----------


## AFPVet

> Maybe because what they did at Chernobyl was insufficient
> 
> http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/worl...eld-54983.html


Well, it would be better to do it right; however, every minute they waste is one more which is saturating the planet with that "oh so good for you" radiation

----------


## libertyjam

> Maybe because what they did at Chernobyl was insufficient
> 
> http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/worl...eld-54983.html


And yet if you are brave, you can go on a tour of Chernobyl today and stand right next to that sarcophagus wall.

http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?t=2217
http://www.tourkiev.com/chernobyltour/

----------


## Carson

Good video on what's up.

*
Arnie Gundersen Gently Reports on Dangerous New Information: Fission at Fukushima No. 4*

http://hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/04/a...ukushima-no-4/

----------


## Carson

> And yet if you are brave, you can go on a tour of Chernobyl today and stand right next to that sarcophagus wall.
> 
> http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?t=2217
> http://www.tourkiev.com/chernobyltour/


Or you could have yourself Photoshopped in.

----------


## Carson

Another story from fark but about Chernobyl.

*25 years ago, one Soviet journalist with giant lead balls was so determined to spread the word of Chernobyl that he snuck in and took photos, but the radiation was so extreme that his film was ruined. So he went back in again*

Actual story;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42738018...d_news-europe/

Fark comments;

http://www.fark.com/comments/6141767...-back-in-again

----------


## Carson

Check out this documentary on Chernobyl if you get a chance. At about 1:04:00 the photographer holds up some of the pictures he took that show radiation exposure shadows of his film sprockets.

http://rickthehealthsleuth.blogspot....battle-of.html


Similarities

similarities
- 1 dictionary result
sim·i·lar·i·ty
   /ˌsɪməˈlærɪti/ Show Spelled[sim-uh-lar-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
the state of being similar;  likeness; resemblance.
2.
an aspect, trait, or feature like or resembling another or another's: a similarity of diction. 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similarities

----------


## Carson

Similarities?

----------


## Carson

Similarities in the lies, misinformation or lack of information, also changing the standards for danger levels. It just doesn't end.

Except how many reactors?

----------


## ronpaulhawaii

New video, new fires?

----------


## steph3n

> New video, new fires?


That could just be steam from the cooling as well...which of course has its own risks depending on the source of the heat and exposure.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

It's amazing how we have gotten used to this. Radiation still coming out, yet no more news or concern. No more radiation readings from the US. How much is in the food chain here now? How much in milk?

----------


## doodle

> It's amazing how we have gotten used to this. Radiation still coming out, yet no more news or concern. No more radiation readings from the US. How much is in the food chain here now? How much in milk?


Look at the bright side, we don't have to worry about OBL or TSA gropings anymore. But yea, it's beeb busy news cycle and we have short memory.

----------


## Carson

> New video, new fires?



I'm thinking it is the original fires. A nuclear meltdown(s) isn't the kind of fire you can put out easily.

----------


## RCA

> Look at the bright side, we don't have to worry about OBL or TSA gropings anymore. But yea, it's beeb busy news cycle and we have short memory.


Why don't we have to worry about TSA gropings anymore?

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Why don't we have to worry about TSA gropings anymore?


I thought they were planning to add them to trains.


Nuclear issue deeply concerns me.  Lack of coverage deeply concerns me.

----------


## doodle

> Why don't we have to worry about TSA gropings anymore?


I misspoke, looks like Obama administration's enhanced touching checks won't be removed from existing transit points but could be expanded to include train stations and shopping malls. Police state is good for security if not for liberties.

----------


## Chester Copperpot

WOuld it be wrong to have a moneybomb meltdown?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Last I heard they were going to enclose them and pump in AC instead of water.

----------


## devil21

Looks like new fire to me, while the media is now silent.

I don't trust the alleged "radiation readings" at sites like Radiation Network.  This has been going on for months and yet none of the radiation readings is rising anywhere, even near Fukushima?

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Japan detects radiation up to 700 milliserverts at Fukushima nuke plant
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13866296.htm

TOKYO, May 9 (Xinhua) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) on Monday detected radiation levels in the building housing the faltering No. 1 reactor that far exceeded expected levels reaching as high as 700 millisieverts per hour, the utility firm said.
...
TEPCO said that as 10 to 70 millisieverts per hour were detected in areas where workers would be expected to spend prolonged periods of time inside of the No. 1 reactor, restoration work is possible.

But the utility firm opened the main access points to the reactor and in doing do freely released 500 million becquerels of radioactive substances into the atmosphere, where it had gathered in the upper part of the reactor following a massive hydrogen explosion on March 12.

----------


## kahless

The media needs to do their job and forget about worrying people.  The more people are aware, the more they get on thier respective governments to take action.  

Looks like we are getting a little break in the coming days for I131 and C137. We are however being blanketed with XE-133.

XE-133 Total
http://transport.nilu.no/browser/fpv...;region=DMANC1

Cesium 137 Total
http://transport.nilu.no/browser/fpv...;region=DMANC1

I-131 Total
http://transport.nilu.no/products/br...;region=DMANC1

----------


## acptulsa

> The media needs to do their job and forget about worrying people.


The company that built the plant owns NBC outright, and you figure they're not doing their job?  Your job is what your boss tells you your job is...

----------


## kahless

> The company that built the plant owns NBC outright, and you figure they're not doing their job?  Your job is what your boss tells you your job is...


Did I say anything about NBC?  They are not the only media outlet you know.  I do agree that one cannot expect to hear anything from them on this subject.  I was however surprised at the one scathing US nuclear safety report Maddow gave on MSNBC despite this but they have as expected been quiet since.

----------


## acptulsa

> Did I say anything about NBC?  They are not the only media outlet you know.


Ah, but it is a tightly-knit club.  Hard to play one off against the other.  Always has been.

----------


## ronpaulhawaii



----------


## kahless

EPA HALTS HEIGHTENED MONITORING OF FUKUSHIMA FALLOUT — No New Milk, Rain or Drinking Water Sampling for another Three Months 
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=1480



> “With the Japanese nuclear situation still out of control and expected to continue that way for months, and with elevated radioactivity continuing to show up in the U.S., it is inexplicable that EPA would shut down its Fukushima radiation monitoring effort,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch, noting radiation readings in seawater off the Japanese coast at depths of up to 100 feet are 1,000 times normal levels.  
> 
> At the same time, EPA continues to review a plan to dramatically increase permissible radioactive levels in drinking water and soil....

----------


## Kylie

What good is the EPA then? If they are not protecting(read: informing) the general population to a very possible fallout issue, then just what the $#@! are they getting paid to do?

----------


## armstrong

So why do we have apathy? hmmm CAUSE NOTHING SEEMS TO MATTER ----INSTEAD OF DAVID AND GOLIATH--------WE HAVE A ANT  AGAINST THE BORG....

----------


## acptulsa

> What good is the EPA then? If they are not protecting(read: informing) the general population to a very possible fallout issue, then just what the $#@! are they getting paid to do?


Make it impossible for small business to compete with big business.

----------


## devil21

> What good is the EPA then? If they are not protecting(read: informing) the general population to a very possible fallout issue, then just what the $#@! are they getting paid to do?


Their job is to control information.

----------


## Kylie

Could one of our nuke guys please help me out?

I have given this info to someone who thinks the EPA is doing a bangup job and they are telling me these PAG's are spot on for a nuclear situation such as this. That they're only raising the amounts for the cleanup process.

Would anyone be able to to tell me if this is true? I'm no nuclear scientist so it's all Greek to me.

Thanks!

----------


## Carson

> 


Quote from the comments:

_"its pronounced Fook a sheama...she gets close to saying $#@! a sheama﻿ at the end lol"_

----------


## raiha

Now they are saying fuel rods in Reactor No 1 (the recently photographed ones) are in complete meltdown. The workers are saying this according to RT.

----------


## Carson

The experts seem to all be singing the same tune about low radiation levels and there is nothing to worry about.

That could be...

Something I have been noticing is that the plant and everything around it seems to be decomposing at a super accelerated rate. Sort of like the way the sun will break down plastic over years. This looks like everything in the area is being blasted by so much radiation that it is all falling apart in months. Maybe I am hallucinating it but even the concrete and steel seems to be taking a real hit. 

I can imagine any group of molecules being effected with enough exposure. Still maybe I am just seeing things.

----------


## Kylie

So is it just coincidence that our EPA has it on the table to raise our "safe" amounts of radiation to be exposed to? 

Since these changes were proposed in 2009, it seems that this could be. 

Now refusing to put out the equipment for testing is something different, but what about our levels of contamination? Why would they want to raise the amounts so drastically?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Here's another facility that has been shutdown for retrofit against Tsunamis, Hamaoka. Between Hamaoka and Fukushima, that's a few more Gigawatts offline.

http://www.powergenworldwide.com/ind..._shutdown.html




> *Japan PM orders shutdown of Hamaoka nuclear plant*
> 
> 
>                                                    Published:                                                                       May 6, 2011                                  
>                                                                                        Japan's Prime  Minister Naoto Kan demanded Chubu Electric Power halts operations at  Hamaoka nuclear plant in central Japan due to worries a strong  earthquake could cause another nuclear crisis.
> 
> Reuters  reports Kan, who has been under fire for his response to a nuclear  crisis at another plant triggered by the March 11 quake and tsunami,  added the government would try to prevent the halt of the Hamaoka  nuclear reactors from causing power supply problems.
> 
> Companies  served by two quake-affected utilities in Tokyo and the north have  already been asked to curb electricity usage this summer when demand  peaks. The shutdown at Hamaoka raises the risk of power disruptions in  the Chubu region, home to Toyota and many other major manufacturers.
> ...

----------


## YumYum

> Now they are saying fuel rods in Reactor No 1 (the recently photographed ones) are in complete meltdown. The workers are saying this according to RT.


Do you have the link?

----------


## doodle

Amazing this is getting almost no coverage in US MSM.

----------


## steph3n

> Amazing this is getting almost no coverage in US MSM.


Didn't you hear Osama was killed? Its the only thing that matters now! Get your mind off of real news!

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Do you have the link?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ima-plant.html




> *Nuclear meltdown at Fukushima plant* 
> 
> * One of the reactors at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi power plant did suffer a    nuclear meltdown, Japanese officials admitted for the first time today,    describing a pool of molten fuel at the bottom of the reactor's containment    vessel.  * 
> 
> 
>  									 									 										 											Workers pour concrete into a pit to stop contaminated water leaking from the reactor building Photo: TEPCO/AFP/Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## sirgonzo420

this thread is a real day-brightener

lol

----------


## raiha

No link it was on the tv. Thanks H!

What's Japanese for "Oh, F@#$?

----------


## doodle

> 5 mins ago
> TOKYO  *A man died on his second day working at Japan's tsunami-wrecked nuclear power plant Saturday*, and the plant operator said harmful levels of radiation were not detected in his body.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110514/...pan_earthquake

----------


## kahless

Makes me wonder if someone got to them or they were using data that is simply no longer available.  This is bs because the maps were showing fallout.  At last checked parts of Alaska, parts of west coast and parts of Canada were getting fallout.  The rest of us getting blanketed with XE133.

nilu.no



> Thank you for your interest in the FLEXPART products for Fukushima. The Forecast system is no longer running.
> 
> 
> We have discontinued our Flexpart forecast of the atmospheric dispersal of radionucleides from Fukushima. This due to the fact that we do not have access to reliable release rates reflecting the current situation at the plant to be used as input to our simulations. It is likely that the release of radioactive material is significantly reduced compared to the initial period, and that levels no longer pose a health risk at distance from the plant.
> 
> We thank you for your interest in our FLEXPART products


As per earlier link the EPA and the Canadian's have or have already stopped the heightened monitoring despite things are getting worse.  EPA seems to already have a plan to just increase the safety levels and tell us everything is ok.

----------


## KramerDSP

Does anybody have updates? I don't know who to believe any more, but I trust you guys a heck of a lot more than anyone else on the web. I saw something about Unit 4 possibly tipping over, and also saw stuff about radiation levels in our food being much higher than the Feds are letting on.

Off topic, but this got me to thinking. If Ron Paul were President, how would his non-interventionist policies jive with a potential nuclear meltdown happening in Japan? It's not like we could just sue TEPCO, because even if we had a class-action lawsuit as Americans, they wouldn't be able to pay us and would declare bankruptcy. Also, we'd be suffering the health effects if indeed the radiation was widespread. Would a President Paul determine this a matter of national security and act accordingly?

----------


## BarryDonegan

> Does anybody have updates? I don't know who to believe any more, but I trust you guys a heck of a lot more than anyone else on the web. I saw something about Unit 4 possibly tipping over, and also saw stuff about radiation levels in our food being much higher than the Feds are letting on.
> 
> Off topic, but this got me to thinking. If Ron Paul were President, how would his non-interventionist policies jive with a potential nuclear meltdown happening in Japan? It's not like we could just sue TEPCO, because even if we had a class-action lawsuit as Americans, they wouldn't be able to pay us and would declare bankruptcy. Also, we'd be suffering the health effects if indeed the radiation was widespread. Would a President Paul determine this a matter of national security and act accordingly?


Such radiation would not reach the United States in such quantities as to harm anyone.

----------


## KramerDSP

> Such radiation would not reach the United States in such quantities as to harm anyone.


You sure about that? What about in terms of accumulation over time?

----------


## AFPVet

The less radiation you are exposed to, the better off you are....

----------


## Suzu

> Does anybody have updates?


Here's something new:

----------


## Kylie

> Situation Update No. 117
> On 24.05.2011 at 04:00 GMT+2
> 
> Tokyo Electric Power Co , the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant disabled by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, confirmed on Tuesday that there were *meltdowns of fuel rods at three of the plant's reactors early in the crisis*. It had said earlier this month that fuel rods in the No.1 reactor had melted, but officials of the utility, known as Tepco, confirmed at a news conference that there were also meltdowns of fuel rods at the plant's No.2 and No.3 reactors early in the crisis. Engineers are battling to plug radiation leaks and bring the plant northeast of Tokyo under control more than two months after the 9.0 magnitude earthquake and deadly tsunami that devastated a swathe of Japan's coastline and tipped the economy into recession. The disaster has triggered a drop of more than 80 percent in Tokyo Electric's share price and forced the company to seek government aid as it faces compensation liabilities that some analysts say could top $100 billion. The Tepco officials said damage to the No.2 reactor fuel rods began three days after the quake, with much of the fuel rods eventually melting and collecting at the bottom of the pressure vessel containing them. Fuel rods in the No.3 reactor were damaged by the afternoon of March 13, they said. They repeated that the tsunami that followed soon after the quake disabled power to the reactors, knocking out their cooling capabilities.






> Situation Update No. 116
> On 24.05.2011 at 03:35 GMT+2
> 
> Nuclear waste disposal tanks that hold radioactive water from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant are almost full, officials at Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the operator of the plant, said on Monday. *TEPCO said that the storage tanks will be filled in four days*, yet a system to treat the wateralready reaching levels of more than 80,000 tonsfor reuse in the reactors will not be completed until mid-June, Kyodo News reported. TEPCO said they could also use a temporary storage tank, but that will not be ready until early July. Compounded by the expected rise in leaks and the coming rainy season, the radioactive water could pose another challenge for the beleaguered facility. *The contaminated water could overflow into the sea again*. In April, the No. 2 reactor leaked contaminated water into the ocean, triggering a sharp rebuke inside and outside of Japan. Contaminated water has pooled inside reactor and turbine buildings via cracks and fissures since the March 11 earthquake damaged the plants cooling systems as well as several key containers. TEPCO workers can only pump more water into the reactors to cool them down, which ends up producing more radioactive water. TEPCO spokesman Junichi Matsumoto said that officials believe the basements in the buildings can hold the water for two more weeks.





> Situation Update No. 118
> On 24.05.2011 at 13:30 GMT+2
> 
> Seventy thousand people living beyond the 20-kilometre no-go zone around Fukushima should be evacuated because of radioactivity deposited by the crippled nuclear plant, a watchdog said. Updating its assessment of the March 11 disaster, France's Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN) highlighted an area northwest of the plant that lies beyond the 20-km (12 mile) zone whose inhabitants have already been evacuated. Radioactivity levels in this area range from several hundred becquerels per square metre to thousands or even several million bequerels per square metre, the IRSN report, issued late Monday, said. Around 70,000 people, including 9,500 children aged up to 14, live in the area, "the most contaminated territory outside the evacuation zone," the agency said. "These are people who are still to be evacuated, in addition to those who were evacuated during the emergency phase in March," Didier Champion, its environmnent director, told AFP.
> 
> Staying in this area means the inhabitants would be exposed to radiation of more than 10 millisieverts (mSv)in the year following the disaster, according to the IRSN. This level is used in French safety guidelines for protecting civilian populations after a nuclear accident. In France, 10 mSv is three times the normal background radiation from natural sources. "Ten mSV is not a dangerous dose in and of itself, it's more a precautionary dose," said Champion, noting however that this figure that does not include any additional doses from contaminated food or water. The 10 mSV derives from a calculation of exposure to at least 600,000 becquerels per square metre, emitted by caesium 137 and 134, which are long-lasting radioactive elements. Of the 70,000 people in the zone identified in the IRSN report, more than 26,000 could be exposed to doses of more than 16mSv in the first year after the disaster. On May 15, Japan began to evacuate 4,000 residents of the village of Iidate-mura and 1,100 people in the town of Kawamata-cho, 30 kms from the plant. The two locations had consistently received high amounts of radioactive dust due to wind patterns. The IRSN report is based on data for radioactivity reported by the Japanese authorities and from US overflights of the zone.





Yay!


And there's a tropical storm headed for them. 


http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?cid=29877




Double Yay!!/s

----------


## doodle

> The contaminated water could overflow into the sea again.


The fish won't be happy about that.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> The Tepco officials said *damage to the No.2 reactor fuel rods began  three days after the quake, with much of the fuel rods eventually  melting and collecting at the bottom of the pressure vessel containing  them. Fuel rods in the No.3 reactor were damaged by the afternoon of  March 13, they said*. They repeated that the tsunami that followed soon  after the quake disabled power to the reactors, knocking out their  cooling capabilities.


 SO much for telling the truth, eh?

TEPCO seeks $100 Billion in government AID... plus another $350 Billion for tsunami damages... I don't hear much from the Top Two US Insurers covering losses AFLAC and AIG. Last quarter they were boasting about record profits in Japan... now it will be book cooking the debt payouts over decades, just watch.

----------


## kahless

> SO much for telling the truth, eh?
> 
> *TEPCO seeks $100 Billion in government AID*... plus another $350 Billion for tsunami damages... I don't hear much from the Top Two US Insurers covering losses AFLAC and AIG. Last quarter they were boasting about record profits in Japan... now it will be book cooking the debt payouts over decades, just watch.


Yet we have people claiming to be Libertarians in these forums that continue support nuclear power.   Nuclear power industry has been and continues to be pretty consistent in making us all tax slaves to them.  Insurance companies will not touch them and they go out of their way to hide their assets as well.

----------


## doodle

> SO much for telling the truth, eh?
> 
> TEPCO seeks $100 Billion in government AID... plus another $350 Billion for tsunami damages... I don't hear much from the Top Two US Insurers covering losses AFLAC and AIG. Last quarter they were boasting about record profits in Japan... now it will be book cooking the debt payouts over decades, just watch.


Wow, if they are the insurers..this is going to be a huge liability for them.

----------


## Acala

> Yet we have people claiming to be Libertarians in these forums that continue support nuclear power.   Nuclear power industry has been and continues to be pretty consistent in making us all tax slaves to them.  Insurance companies will not touch them and they go out of their way to hide their assets as well.


Find a libertarian on this forum that advocates SUBSIDIZING nuclear power or giving it some kind of special treatment at taxpayer expense. 

Most of the posts I have seen that have not been anti-nuclear have merely said the market should decide, not government.

----------


## raiha

AIG is in the $#@! anyway....


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=AIG:US




> Chief Executive Officer Robert Benmosche is seeking to assure Wall Street that the New York-based company has sufficient reserves after it was forced to book a $4.2 billion fourth-quarter charge to make up for a shortfall. The U.S. Treasury Department and AIG, which was bailed out amid record losses in 2008, plan to sell 300 million shares today to help replace government funds with private capital.
> “To be clear, the U.S. government isn’t validating the reserves, nor really could they,” said Jonathan Hatcher, a strategist who covers financial institutions at Jefferies Group Inc. in New York. “This is basically saying, ‘Look as an investor, the U.S. government isn’t putting a stamp of approval on every fine point of this company.’”
> AIG dropped 52 cents to $29.46 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The insurer has plunged 39 percent this year, the biggest decline in the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index.
> Reserve Shortfalls
> AIG reported shortfalls in reserves in each of the last two years, and the company is spending more on claims and expenses than it makes in premiums from policyholders. The company set aside $2.3 billion to bolster reserves in 2009.
> The statements that needed “clarification” were made in AIG’s “retail roadshow presentation,” the company said in the filing. Mark Herr, a spokesman for the company, declined to comment.
> The GAO had said in March 2009 that it found no evidence of under-pricing by AIG after its 2008 bailout. Rivals including Chubb Corp. (CB) and Liberty Mutual Holding Co. had said AIG charged unsustainable rates to retain market share as it was propped up by the government.
> ‘Raises Concerns’
> Fitch Ratings said in February that AIG’s track record of reserve additions “raises concerns about the company’s ability to generate consistent run-rate underwriting results.” Rivals in the market for U.S. property-casualty coverage including Travelers Cos. and Chubb have reported gains in the last two years as the insurers reduced reserves.
> ...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

I don't know about subsidizing them, but all those spent fuel rod storage facilities is a national security problem.  Just one of them catching fire would be devastating for this country.  So I'd be very supportive of using some of our war funding to finish that huge underground storage facility and minimize that risk.  

As to subsidizing new plants - uh, no.

-t

----------


## kahless

> Find a libertarian on this forum that advocates SUBSIDIZING nuclear power or giving it some kind of special treatment at taxpayer expense. 
> 
> Most of the posts I have seen that have not been anti-nuclear have merely said the market should decide, not government.


If the market decides it wants nuclear power and the plant or waste can no longer be maintained for whatever reason or if there is an accident then the taxpayer is left paying for it.  It is a technology that ultimately makes government necessary and ensures tax servitude now and for generations to come.

----------


## Acala

> If the market decides it wants nuclear power and the plant or waste can no longer be maintained for whatever reason or if there is an accident then the taxpayer is left paying for it.  It is a technology that ultimately makes government necessary and ensures tax servitude now and for generations to come.


I don't think your conclusion follows.  Virtually any industry can theoretically create problems it can't afford to clean up.  Yet the ones that always seem to do so are the government-created corporations operating on government land often with government subsidy and special privileges under heavy government "regulation".

----------


## Danke

> If the market decides it wants nuclear power and the plant or waste can no longer be maintained for whatever reason or if there is an accident then the taxpayer is left paying for it.  It is a technology that ultimately makes government necessary and ensures tax servitude now and for generations to come.


Government grants corporate status with limited liability for the corporation officers.  Take that away, and let the free market reign.  See how many in management would then support policies and procedures in their companies that could bankrupt their families and put them in jail.

----------


## raiha

> Remember Fukushima, the worst nuclear catastrophe in the last 20 or so years which soon will surpass Chernobyl in total radioactive emissions into the environment? Well, the radiation in the now officially melted down Reactor 1 has just hit the highest ever reading since the crisis began, or 204 sieverts/hour, recorded in the drywell. Not Micro. Not Milli. Sieverts. It appears the "excuse" that the counters are broken isn't being used this time, although we are confident that the "spurious reading" allegations will fly.


Zero Hedge! Yikes!

----------


## Lucille

> Zero Hedge! Yikes!





> 


Regular updates by Arnie Gundersen here: http://www.fairewinds.com/updates




> Arnie Gundersen explains how containment vents were added to the GE Mark 1 BWR as a "band aid" 20 years after the plants [were] built in order to prevent an explosion of the notoriously weak Mark 1 containment system.  Obviously the containment vent band aid fix did not work since all three units have lost containment integrity and are leaking radioactivity.  Gundersen also discusses seismic design flaws, inadequate evacuation planning, and the taxpayer supported nuclear industry liability fund.


F'n GE...

ZH 5/16: 




> Hey, remember Fukushima? 
> 
> Arnie Gundersen is freaking me out! Gundersen is no tin-foil hat guy, he's the chief engineer of energy consulting company Fairewinds Associates and a former nuclear power industry executive who served as an expert witness in the investigation of the Three Mile Island accident...

----------


## raiha

> TEPCO-AREVA Contract to Treat Contaminated Water at #Fukushima I Nuke Plant Is Shrouded in Secrecy
> With TEPCO again running out of space to hide (aka move) the highly contaminated water from the Reactors 2 and 3 at Fukushima I Nuke Plant, the hope is that the water treatment facility being built by AREVA will be in operation in June.
> 
> I mentioned the "rumor" in my post yesterday that the cost to treat 1 tonne of contaminated water will cost TEPCO/Japanese taxpayers 200 million yen (US$2.44 million). In addition to the exorbitant cost, some people are asking, "What exactly will the facility do? What types of radioactive materials is it capable of removing from the water?"
> 
> After all, it will be the first even for AREVA to treat radioactive water of this level of contamination.
> 
> To my (feigned) surprise, no one in the Japanese government seems to know exactly what the facility is designed to do, and TEPCO is not saying anything, because it is under the "confidentiality [non-disclosure] clause" of the agreement with the French company.
> 
> ...


Sorry lost link. will try find when have time.

----------


## Kylie

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that what you just posted was cut from Atlas Shrugged. 

These $#@!ing idiots don't know their asses from a hole in the ground, and we let them play with nooookulaar energy???


We get what we deserve, I guess.

----------


## raiha

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/05/t...-to-treat.html

Yes don't let on. It won't be til the birth defects start showing up that we will realize what's going on!

----------


## raiha

Confirmation from TEPCO of three reactors suffering meltdown.



> The Asahi Shimbuin published the story in Japanese and ex-SFK has provided a translation. Two thumbs up to you for providing good information to the public!
> 
> Quote:
> データによると、圧力容器内の圧力が、２号機は３月１５日午後６時４３分に、３号機は３月１６  日午後１１時 ５０分に、それぞれ下がった。圧力容器の密閉性が損なわれ、圧力が抜けたとみられている。
> 
> According to the data, the pressure inside the Reactor 2 RPV (Reactor Pressure Vessel) dropped at 6:43PM on March 15 (JST), and the pressure inside Reactor 3 RPV dropped at 11:50PM on March 16. The integrity of the RPVs were compromised, it is thought, and the pressure went down.
> 
> 　圧力容器の底には制御棒や計測機器を外から通すための数多くの貫通部がある。メルトダウンし  た核燃料が圧 力容器の底にたまり、その熱の影響で機器が溶け るなどした結果とみられる。３号機内の汚染水からは、原子炉内の核燃料が損傷して出るテクネチ  ウムなどの放 射性物質も確認されていることから、溶けた燃料 がさらに圧力容器から格納容器内に落ちた可能性もある。
> 
> ...


Found this on Kitco forums.

BTW Smoke is rising from the wreckage of BOTH reactor buildings No. 2 and No. 4.
Flashing lights which may be flames have been seen in building No. 4.

No MSM???

----------


## Kylie

Nope. 

why? 


Cause Scotty won the American Idol!!!!



/puke. 


These stupid people really do piss me off.

----------


## ds21089

So...now that 3 reactors have melted, is it time to take the potassium iodide pills?

----------


## AFPVet

> So...now that 3 reactors have melted, is it time to take the potassium iodide pills?


Don't take them until the rad levels in your area are in the red. Go to radiationnetwork.com and see what your area is hitting. You can only take KI for a limited time... there are other ways to naturally fill your thyroid too but it takes longer. I've been taking a kelp and blue-green algae mixture for a couple months now.

----------


## doodle

> Zero Hedge! Yikes!


Not good.

----------


## acptulsa

HHK quotes the Japanese Nuclear Safety Agency as saying that the nuclear crisis could cost Japan between $71 billion and $250 billion by 2020.

The LDP is calling for Prime Minister Kan to step down, but he's refusing.

----------


## steph3n

> The LDP is calling for Prime Minister Kan to step down, but he's refusing.


as much as this situation sucks, seriosuly what is the LDP going to do different that will magically make this better?

----------


## doodle

Two words. Germany.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Today:

Japanese nuclear plant hit by explosion

----------


## Brian4Liberty

Yesterday:

Report: Radioactive soil in Japan reaches Chernobyl level

----------


## Carson

How about the weather patterns we've been seeing in the United States? I just sent my sister an email trying to explain what I think I'm seeing.

_This is what I was trying to say on the phone. Some moisture is generated near Japan and travels across the pacific ocean. Like you mentioned it then sweeps down from the north west towards Missouri. When it does it causes warm air to be drawn in from the gulf.

Two things have been altered in recent history.

One; Extra heat from the out-of-control reactors is causing an increase in moisture being generated near Japan. (Actually all across the pacific and any where it lites.)

Two; The Gulf AND the total gulf lying states have been lubed up from the gulf oil spill. Everything in the area would have gotten a certain amount of oil on it, from tree, to stick, to the dirt itself. Any amount will allow for less wind resistance and an increase in wind velocities. Just as with the reactors. Any increase in heat is going to result in an increase in moisture. 

Who can say how much effect it will have.

I'm thinking I'm seeing some effects.


Red line is the general moisture travel from Japan.
_


_
White line is the path of the warm air being drawn up._



This video shows the calming effect of a little oil on the water surface of a small pool. In theory the wind velocity should increase with the decrease in resistance.

----------


## Carson

Blowback.

*Federal Officials Heckled at Meeting on Indian Point Nuclear Plant* 

_Audience members at a raucous public meeting on safety at Indian Point nuclear plant Thursday night heckled officials from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission — calling the federal officials "Liars!" and "lap dogs!"_

http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-...nuclear-plant/

----------


## kahless

> Blowback.
> 
> *Federal Officials Heckled at Meeting on Indian Point Nuclear Plant* 
> 
> _Audience members at a raucous public meeting on safety at Indian Point nuclear plant Thursday night heckled officials from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission — calling the federal officials "Liars!" and "lap dogs!"_
> 
> http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-...nuclear-plant/


I wish I could have made this one and it is good to see they have been getting some media coverage. I have gone to a couple of these protests for this very plant because of their aggregious safety record.  They are not fit to run a McDonalds.  Although it has been awhile for me since I went to one, the few I went to the protestors were pretty civil in making their point but I could not say the same about those that represent the plant nor the time I went where they were busing in union thugs.

The NRC is a joke.  Our local paper is covering it to.
http://www.lohud.com/article/2011060...text|Frontpage

----------


## kahless

The truth finally makes it to the MSM.  Good strategy, wait a few months after fact when no one is paying attention and in the middle of the Weiner scandal.

CNN: 3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/as...own/index.html

----------


## doodle

Are any msm owners linked to ge/aig stock?

----------


## steph3n

> Are any msm owners linked to ge/aig stock?


MSNBC...is/was owned by GE.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Check this out: http://nuclearstreet.com/newsletters/5_11_11.html



*


* 
Fukushima Update: Fukushima Radiation Release Double Previous Estimates*





> Japanese officials today doubled their previous estimate as to how  much radiation has escaped from the plant in recent months. The Japanese  government also said that an extension of the exclusion zone around the  plant will likely be enlarged. Currently, nearly 90,000 residents have  been forced to evacuate in the exclusion zone.
>  The organization, The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has said  that they believe the r*adiation released has been estimated at about 770  thousand (770000) terabecquerels just during the week after the March  11th quake and tsunami damaged the plant.*
> *Earlier estimates noted the radiation released to be about 370 thousand terabecquerels.*
> 
> Wait just a second...
> 
> The Nuclear and Industrial  Safety Agency (NISA) on June 6 revised the level of radioactivity of  materials emitted from the crisis hit *Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power  Plant from 370,000 terabecquerels to 850,000 terabecquerels*.
> 
>  (from 10,000,000 curies to 22,972,972.97 curies)
> ...


For  those of us who have actually been in drywells the floor is concrete.  The core temps are perhaps misleading as they are actual inlet and  outlet variations, reflective of core temps. 

Richard Lahey, who  was head of safety research for boiling water reactors at General  Electric when the company installed the units at the Japan plant, says  the radioactive core in the Unit 2 reactor appears to have melted  through the bottom of its containment vessel and on a concrete floor.

“The  indications we have, from the reactor to radiation readings and the  materials they are seeing, suggest that the core has melted through the  bottom of the pressure vessel in unit two, and at least some of it is  down on the floor of the drywell,” Lahey told the paper.
Lahey did add there was no danger of a Chernobyl-style catastrophe.
http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/...ear-plant-lost
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives...inment-vessel/


IAEA report 3/21: Unit 2

Coolant  within Unit 2 is covering about half of the fuel rods in the reactor,  and Japanese authorities believe the core has been damaged. Following an  explosion on 15 March, Japanese officials expressed concerns that the  reactor's containment may not be fully intact. As of 19 March, 11:30  UTC, officials could no longer confirm seeing white smoke coming from  the building. Smoke had been observed emerging from the reactor earlier.  White smoke/vapour was observed again from 9:22 UTC on 21 March and  diminished to nearly invisible by 22:11 UTC the same day. During the  time of smoke emission, an increase in radiation dose rates was reported  at 9:30 UTC 21 March. TEPCO then ordered an evacuation of plant  personnel, though workers returned as of 00:00 UTC 22 March

----------


## devil21

Did yall see the story about the 270 older Japanese that are volunteering to work the front line at Fukushima to protect the younger employees from radiation and certain death?  Amazing story.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7551BO20110606




> (Reuters) - At age 72, Yasuteru Yamada believes he has a few more good years ahead.
> 
> But not so many that the retired engineer is worried about the consequences of working on the hazardous front line cleaning up the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant.
> 
> "I will be dead before cancer gets me," said Yamada, who has organized an unlikely band of more than 270 retirees and older workers eager to work for nothing but the sense of service at the site of the world's worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl.
> 
> Yamada, who spent 28 years at Sumitomo Metal Industries, says the Fukushima clean-up job is too sprawling, too complex and too important to be left to Tokyo Electric Power, the Fukushima plant's embattled utility operator.
> 
> Instead, he wants to see the Japanese government take over at Fukushima with his group of graying volunteers with expertise in civil engineering and construction stepping in on an unpaid basis, "like the Red Cross."
> ...

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> *Check this out: http://nuclearstreet.com/newsletters/5_11_11.html
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> * 
> Fukushima Update: Fukushima Radiation Release Double Previous Estimates*
> ...


Could we get that in rads?

----------


## acptulsa

HHK announced today that TEPCO will finally start cleaning up the cooling water, instead of dumping it hot, radioactively 'hot', and oily into the sea.  Once they get set up to do it, that is...

----------


## Carson

_It's Official: "Nuclear Fuel Has Melted Through Base of Fukushima Plant" ... The Findings of the Report, Which has Been Given to the International Atomic Energy Agency ... Described a 'Melt-Through' as Being 'Far Worse than a Core Meltdown' and 'The Worst Possibility In a Nuclear Accident'"

The Telegraph reports today:

    The nuclear fuel in three of the reactors at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant has melted through the base of the pressure vessels and is pooling in the outer containment vessels, according to a report by the Japanese government.

    The findings of the report, which has been given to the International Atomic Energy Agency, were revealed by the Yomiuri newspaper, which described a "melt-through" as being "far worse than a core meltdown" and "the worst possibility in a nuclear accident."

    ***

    The pressure vessel of the No. 1 reactor is now believed to have suffered damage just five hours after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, contrary to an estimation released by Tepco, which estimated the failure at 15 hours later.

    Melt-downs of the fuel in the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors followed over the following days with the molten fuel collecting at the bottom of the pressure vessels before burning through and into the external steel containment vessels.

    ***

    "The recovery effort at the plant is likely to be more difficult as they will not be able to use their previous plan to contain the fuel," Yoshiaki Oka, a professor of nuclear science at Tokyo's Waseda University told The Daily Telegraph.

    "So it may take longer and be more difficult, but it is something they have to do. 

Alexander Higgins picks up on other parts of the Telegraph article underplaying the severity of the crisis, noting:_

Snip...

Read the rest here:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=25204

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> "Nuclear Fuel Has *Melted Through Base of Fukushima Plant*" ... “The Findings of the Report, Which has Been Given to the International Atomic Energy Agency ... Described a 'Melt-Through' as Being 'Far Worse than a Core Meltdown' and 'The Worst Possibility In a Nuclear Accident'"
> 
> *AND*
> 
> The Telegraph reports today:
> 
> The nuclear fuel in three of the reactors at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant has *melted through the base of the pressure vessels and is pooling in the outer containment vessels*


These are very different things.  I don't think the Telegraph understands the difference.

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> These are very different things.  I don't think the Telegraph understands the difference.
> 
> -t


 ^^^^^Very True.  The only concern is... the molten pool on the floor... Intense radiation is know to have a severe effect on reinforced concrete deterioration of the rebar over time, etc... Where's our resident NUKE specialist "THESTATE"? He could probably elaborate on this in detail.

----------


## Carson

> These are very different things.  I don't think the Telegraph understands the difference.
> 
> -t


Good point but I was thinking today that if they were saying no meltdown when there was, and no breach of the containment when there was, shouldn't one also assume that when they aren't saying anything about the whole mess being busy nuking its way through the foundation that maybe it already has? 

At the rate it is being contained it could also be safe to assume that it will continue until so much material has been blasted away at the atomic level that reactor site will assume the shape of a big sink hole that fills with sea water and emits a green glow down in the bottom.


The trouble with the nuclear industry is those that are in charge can't handle the truth.

----------


## acptulsa

We obviously have a lot to learn about this kind of disaster.  And unfortunately, it looks like we're learning it.  If I were in Japan right now, I do believe I'd feel a lot like a guinea pig.

----------


## kahless

> The trouble with the nuclear industry is those that are in charge can't handle the truth.


It seems advocates of nuclear power cannot either.  It is amazing the comments that I continue to read on MSM sites continuing to spout false propaganda despite the truth has already been released.  Makes me wonder are these people just political idiots posting or do they do so out of fear of their income stream being threatened which is derived from the industry.

----------


## Carson

From Fark;

*So you wanted to see Japan's tsunami REALLY up close and personal? Try a deliveryman's dashcam as he catches the earthquake, then drives downtown to HELLO TSUNAMI
*
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1db_1308510054


Fark comments;
http://www.fark.com/comments/6309425...-HELLO-TSUNAMI

----------


## devil21

So where's all this radiation going?  This thing has been billowing tons of radioactive material for months now.  Where is it going?

----------


## LibertyRevolution

"Workers at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have been cleared to open the No. 2 reactor building's airlock to ease sauna-like conditions inside, the plant's owner said Sunday."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...rss_topstories

----------


## pacelli

Got some sushi last saturday from a japanese restaurant.  They were selling T-shirts to donate money to japan.  They also proudly said that some items on their menu are still imported from japan.  

Once I got home, I scanned the entire order with a radiation detector sensitive to beta as well as gamma.  No issues with anything except the scallops.  Every item with scallops in it was pulling .3-.5 rads.

----------


## acptulsa

HHK says the new system designed to eliminate radiation from the cooling water ain't working.  It could soon lead to added radiation releases into the sea.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> HHK says the new system designed to eliminate radiation from the cooling water ain't working.  It could soon lead to added radiation releases into the sea.


Japan is surrounded by coolant Ocean/Seas... as for the radionuclides, our resident nuke expert member could elaborate on the dissipation of such radionuclides in the pacific ocean, currents, half life stats, etc.

----------


## Carson

*Cover-up: Japanese nuclear reactor broke down before tsunami*

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/da...#ixzz1RHtJTtxL

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> So where's all this radiation going?  This thing has been billowing tons of radioactive material for months now.  Where is it going?


I pour it over my cereal and eat it for breakfast every day.

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> *Cover-up: Japanese nuclear reactor broke down before tsunami*
> 
> Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/da...#ixzz1RHtJTtxL





> The whistle-blowers say Fukushima’s cooling and recirculation pipes broke apart and at least one reactor cracked after the earthquake — not after the “unique, unforeseeable” tsunami that struck 40 minutes later.
> 
> Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/da...#ixzz1RI3nhAyS


Wouldn't be terribly surprising.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> I pour it over my cereal and eat it for breakfast every day.


Hey, me too! What a coincidence.

Bowl of Bran Flakes - 155 picocuries K-40
Soaked in Low fat milk - 285 picocuries K-40
A diced up banana with a whopping 358 picocuries K-40
and a glass of apple juice to wash it down - 229 picocuries K-40

I reckon that 1 picocurie of Cs-147 found in Vermont dairies is slightly drowned out.

XNN

----------


## devil21

> I pour it over my cereal and eat it for breakfast every day.


You're probably more right than you realize.  California is the largest milk producing state in the country.

----------


## MozoVote

This reminds me of the stories from New Orleans a month after Katrina ... where we learned the levees were already failing from the wave action, before the storm actually landed.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Excessive cesium found in 21 cows*
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110709003236.htm




> *Excessive cesium found in 11 cows shipped from Fukushima Prefecture to Tokyo*
> 
>    The Yomiuri Shimbun
>     Radioactive cesium beyond the legal limit has been detected in the  meat of 11 cows shipped to a meatpacking plant in Tokyo from a farm in  Minami-Soma, Fukushima Prefecture, the Tokyo metropolitan government  said Saturday.
> 
>   On Friday, the metropolitan government found that meat of one of the  *11 cows shipped from the farm to the meatpacking plant in Minato Ward,  Tokyo, contained radioactive cesium measuring 2,300 becquerels--4.6  times the provisional legal limit* of 500 becquerels per kilogram.
> 
>   On Saturday, the metropolitan government conducted similar  inspections on the *remaining 10 cows and found they were contaminated  with radioactive cesium at three to 6.4 times the legal limit.*
>   Meat from the 11 cows was not distributed to the market.
> ...

----------


## squarepusher

> *Excessive cesium found in 21 cows*
> http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110709003236.htm


doesn't cesium help build strong bones?

----------


## KingRobbStark

Its been a couple of days, what has happened now? lol

----------


## KingRobbStark

> doesn't cesium help build strong bones?


Its a metal. How can it possibly help build strong bones?

----------


## Dark_Horse_Rider

Some interesting info in nuclear power plants and TEPCO. 

Obama invites tepco to build plant with taxpayer funds...

http://www.gregpalast.com/no-bs-info...nds/#more-4497

----------


## ds21089

We're all gonna die!! >.>

----------


## Carehn

Iv heard they have three at full melt down. True?

----------


## acptulsa

> Iv heard they have three at full melt down. True?


Depends on what you mean by 'full'.  Yes, though if any of them have melted through their containment no one is letting on...

They're trying to set up a nitrogen cooling system to prevent another hydrogen explosion in Number Three.  They're behind schedule, according to HHK.

----------


## Carehn

I have not heard of people dyeing off over their so maybe its not as bad as i thought. I figured by now many of them would be dyeing but they could also just be covering American Idle and forgot about Japan.

----------


## kahless

> If the market decides it wants nuclear power and the plant or waste can no longer be maintained for whatever reason or if there is an accident then the taxpayer is left paying for it.  It is a technology that ultimately makes government necessary and ensures tax servitude now and for generations to come.


"Fox McCloud", care to explain why you take issue with this comment rather than your cowardly negative rep that just says "Uhhh no"?  

You obviously believe in restrictions and limits to my freedom and private property rights when it comes to the nuclear industry.  Nuclear power = perpetual tax enslavement to the industry.  There is no getting around it if the company fails.  The waste and facility MUST be maintained and if no one is willing to do so WE are forced to do so.

We will never be free from government in our lifetime because of people like you that blindly pledge your allegiance to this industry and support the theft of our income by government to build, support and maintain them.

The only comment here that comes close to making that less of an issue is from Danke.




> Government grants corporate status with limited liability for the corporation officers.  Take that away, and let the free market reign.  See how many in management would then support policies and procedures in their companies that could bankrupt their families and put them in jail.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Its a metal. How can it possibly help build strong bones?


Calcium is also a metal and a major material used in mineralization of bones and shells.

He probably was confusing Cesium with Calcium, both are metals, but one isn't radio active.

----------


## Kylie

Guess it's no longer a disaster. 

It's been removed from the Emergency and Disaster website. This must have happened today. 
It's been on there since the day it happened. 

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?lang=

----------


## Lucille

http://www.fairewinds.com/updates



> July 19, 2011
> >
> Hi, I'm Arnie Gundersen from Fairewinds and it is Tuesday, July 19th. Today, I plan to talk about the condition of the reactors at Fukushima. And more importantly, the radiation that has been detected throughout Japan, not just on the site. And finally, I want to talk about a condition that the Japanese are beginning to call Black Rain.
> 
> The first thing is the condition of the site itself. All 3 Fukushima reactors that were running, I, II and III, and the fuel pool on Unit 4, continue to release radiation. Now, you do not see it in the day because the days are warm now, but you do see it at night. I have gotten many, many emails about this, where people think that the site is blowing up. In fact, it is steam coming out of these reactors and hitting cold air from the Pacific. So they continue to release radiation. But most of the radiation from Fukushima was released in March and in April. At this point, there is a lot less radiation every day than there was in March and April. About 90-95% of the radiation from Fukushima was released in the first 6 weeks of the accident. While it continues to release radiation, there is nowhere near as much on a daily basis. On the other hand, Fukushima may be continuing to release radiation for a long time...

----------


## COpatriot

The thread that wouldn't quit.

----------


## Kylie

No, it won't quit. 


And it's back on the Emergency website. 





And now...





> Tokyo Electric Power Co., operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant, said it detected *the highest radiation to date at the site*. *Geiger counters, used to detect radioactivity, registered more than 10 sieverts an hour, the highest reading the devices are able to record*, Junichi Matsumoto, a general manager at the utility, said today. The measurements were taken at the base of the main ventilation stack for reactors No. 1 and No. 2. The Fukushima plant, about 220 kilometers (137 miles) north of Tokyo, had three reactor meltdowns after the March 11 magnitude-9 earthquake and tsunami knocked out power and backup generators. Radiation leaks displaced 160,000 people and contaminated marine life and agricultural products. The utility, known as Tepco, tried to vent steam and gas the day after the earthquake as pressure in reactor No. 1 exceeded designed limits. A buildup of hydrogen gas subsequently caused an explosion that blew out part of the reactor building. "I suspect the high radiation quantity was an aftermath of venting done," Matsumoto told reporters in Tokyo. "The plant is not running. I don't think any gas with high radiation level is flowing in the stack." Tepco sent three workers around the ventilation stack today after a gamma camera detected high radioactivity levels in the area yesterday, Matsumoto said. The workers were exposed to as much as 4 millisieverts during the work, he said. The utility will create a no-go zone around the stack and cover the area with protective material, he said.

----------


## osan

Ticker on CNN just said that the radiation levels at Fukushima are the highest since the quake... whatever that means.

It was, however, something of surprising that it got even that much air time.

----------


## LibertyRevolution

"The radiation levels -- 10,000 millisieverts per hour -- are high enough that a single 60-minute dose would be fatal to humans within weeks."

CNN video on the high level radiation:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...x.html?npt=NP1

----------


## PeacePlan



----------


## Kylie

> It is suspected that highly concentrated levels of radioactivity were released through air conditioning vents that blew out radioactive substances remaining in the pipes. TEPCO vented steam and gas that had built up in reactor No. 1 on March 12th a day after the earthquake. The operator sent 3 workers to the ventilation stack after a gamma camera detected extremely high levels of radioactivity in the area. The company also detected a maximum of 1-thousand millisieverts of radioactivity per hour around the facility and 4-thousand millisieverts per hour inside a reactor building. TEPCO is planning to create a no-entry zone around the area and cover it with protective material.


http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?p...-JPN&uid=11208


So 10,000 is the highest it can detect. That's saying that it could be much higher than that.

----------


## devil21

Some new Fukushima pics

http://kazumaobara.com/2011/08/flont...fukushima.html

----------


## Aratus

this thread is three pages away from 150 pages...
the worry in the begining was that the plant was
darn close to a total meltdown. we are going to
live for years with the after-effects of this incident.

----------


## osan

> this thread is three pages away from 150 pages...
> the worry in the begining was that the plant was
> darn close to a total meltdown. we are going to
> live for years with the after-effects of this incident.


Most people have not the first clue as to just how incredibly awful this all is.  I'm not even sure I do, and I think it is plenty bad.

----------


## Kylie

> The thread that wouldn't quit.




Japanese researchers discovered high levels of radioactive material in concentrated areas in Tokyo and Yokohama, more than 241 kilometers away from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, as increasingly thorough tests provide a clearer picture of just how far contamination has spread and accumulated after the March disaster. In Tokyo, a sidewalk in Setagaya ward, in the western part of the city, recorded radiation levels of 2.707 microsieverts per hour, about 50 times higher than another location in Setagaya where the ward regularly monitors radiation levels. "What's puzzling is that the levels detected on other parts of the same sidewalk were very low," said Ken Hatanaka, head of the ward's section in charge of radiation monitoring said. The ward is consulting experts to figure out what to do with the highly contaminated spot, Mr. Hatanaka added, noting rainwater and sediments containing radioactive fallout may have been more likely to accumulate in such spots. Still, officials said the discoveries didn't indicate any immediate danger for residents of Japan's largest cities. Overall levels of radiation in those areas remain very low, even near the sites where the new contamination was found. 

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?p...1012-32654-JPN

----------


## Lucille

Remember Fukushima? It's Back




> The problem with sweeping unresolved problems, especially of the unstable gamma decay variety, is that they tend to pop up at the most inopportune of times. Such as during global coordinated fiat ponzi bailouts. Kyodo reports that according to TEPCO a fresh fission reaction has restarted at Fukushima Daichi, and that boric acid is being injected to control a "possible nuclear reaction." Hardly the encouraging news that the world needs right about now...


Via the comments:

Hillary Clinton imports Japan's nuked food to America




> Gundersen told SolarIMG that high-level people he knows in the State Department said Hillary Clinton signed a pact with her counterpart in Japan agreeing for the United States to continue buying food from Japan, despite that food not being properly tested for radioactive materials.
> 
> "So we are not sampling the food coming into the United States," he said, repeating, "The US government has come up with a decision at the highest levels of the State Department, as well as other departments who made a decision to downplay Fukushima." In April, the month after the powerful tsunami and earthquake crippled Japan including its nuclear power plant, "Hillary Clinton signed a pact with Japan that she agreed there is no problem with Japanese food supply and we will continue to buy them so we are not sampling food coming in from Japan" according to Gundersen.


Scientist Marco Kaltofen Presents Data Confirming Hot Particles




> Washington, DC - October 31, 2011 – Today Scientist Marco Kaltofen of Worchester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) presented his analysis of radioactive isotopic releases from the Fukushima accidents at the annual meeting of the American Public Health Association (APHA). Mr. Kaltofen’s analysis confirms the detection of hot particles in the US and the extensive airborne and ground contamination in northern Japan due to the four nuclear power plant accidents at TEPCO’s Fukushima reactors. Fairewinds believes that this is a personal health issue in Japan and a public health issue in the United States and Canada.

----------


## Lucille

Guest Post: Boots On The Ground In Fukushima, Japan




> The really bizarre thing is that the radiation levels are still really high… yet everyone is staying put. Tepco, the group that operates the failed nuclear reactors nearby, has been publishing all sorts of propaganda saying that radiation levels are falling. Nobody believes it.
> [...]
> The government is telling them not to worry while private studies suggest otherwise. A recent paper published by Norwegian atmospheric scientist Adreas Stohl refutes a number of claims made by the Japanese government, and it more than doubles the government’s estimate of how much radiation was released in the accident.
> [...]
> It seems crazy, but this is a familiar story.
> 
> Think about how many people are lied to on a regular basis by their politicians. They know they’re being lied to. They know their livelihood is under attack. They know the trend is bad, and it’s getting worse. But they do nothing and plan nothing, warning signs be damned.
> 
> Oh, how politicians love it when citizens are good little sheep, patiently waiting to be milked and sheared.
> ...


(I'm kind of obsessed with this b/c one of my kids was in Seattle when this happened.  I wanted to tell him to come home but everyone kept saying, "Don't worry.  It's not like Chernobyl."  No, it's worse.)

----------


## SevenEyedJeff

> Gundersen told SolarIMG that high-level people he knows in the State Department said Hillary Clinton signed a pact with her counterpart in Japan agreeing for the United States to continue buying food from Japan, despite that food not being properly tested for radioactive materials.


So, are there any reports of people testing their food with a geiger counter and getting readings in the USA? Is there any way of differentiating what food did or didn't come from Japan?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> So, are there any reports of people testing their food with a geiger counter and getting readings in the USA? Is there any way of differentiating what food did or didn't come from Japan?


"The radiation detectors at all US ports will light up if levels are high on Japanese imports. Love, DHS

----------


## Danke

Radiated food destroys microorganisms, bacteria, viruses, and insects.

----------


## pcosmar

> Radiated food destroys microorganisms, bacteria, viruses, and insects.


I thought roaches were expected to survive  a nuke event.

----------


## Lucille

He's checking it out.  And I truly have no idea how a person can tell what foods come from Japan.




> Due to this high degree of secrecy enshrouding the Fukushima nuclear catastrophe, that Gundersen said is ongoing, he has called on Americans with Geiger counters to send samples to him for an independent research team's study. Gundersen says the new study will prove that what the U.S. government is telling Americans is false.

----------


## pcosmar

> He's checking it out.  And I truly have no idea how a person can tell what foods come from Japan.


The dependency between what is said and what isn't,, is concerning.
http://www.livescience.com/13507-inf...on-levels.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...n-13-US-states

And this was awhile back..
What is most telling are the absence of reports where there obviously should be reports.

----------


## Lucille

> The dependency between what is said and what isn't,, is concerning.
> http://www.livescience.com/13507-inf...on-levels.html
> http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/03...n-13-US-states
> 
> And this was awhile back..
> What is most telling are the absence of reports where there obviously should be reports.


This fascist, lying gov't and their statist handmaidens in the press have betrayed us all.

I have read the Gulf is still an on-going disaster too, and that massive oil slicks are still being seen, and marinelife is still washing up on shore.

Some "green" president O Duce turned out to be!

Guest Post: New International Report Shreds Japan's Carefully Constructed Fukushima Scenario

----------


## Lucille

Fukushima: "China Syndrome Is Inevitable" ... "Huge Steam Explosions", or "Nuclear Bomb-Type Explosions" May Occur

----------


## devil21

This thing has fallen off the western media news cycle but apparently things continue to get worse at Fukushima.  Recent (unconfirmed) reports are saying that one of the reactors is starting to literally fall apart.  It's too much info to post directly so just check out this new ATS thread, particularly the OP:  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread785405/pg1

----------


## Krugerrand

> Fukushima: "China Syndrome Is Inevitable" ... "Huge Steam Explosions", or "Nuclear Bomb-Type Explosions" May Occur


quote form comments:



> With a decent sized "volcano" you can expect the radiation to circumnavigate the globe several times over.  The main benefit will be some spectacularly beautiful sunrises and sunsets. Why focus on the down side?

----------


## flightlesskiwi

big bump.

----------


## ca4paul

On a side note, a ballot initiative in California for 2012 will shut down all nuc plants in our state. I'll be voting yes on that.

----------


## AGRP

> So, are there any reports of people testing their food with a geiger counter and getting readings in the USA? Is there any way of differentiating what food did or didn't come from Japan?


Shut your mouth.  Theyre busy throwing people in prison over raw milk and harmless plants that grow from the ground.

----------


## flightlesskiwi

> On a side note, a ballot initiative in California for 2012 will shut down all nuc plants in our state. I'll be voting yes on that.


oh, come on now!  you is just afeared of what you don't understand!

/s

----------


## asurfaholic

> On a side note, a ballot initiative in California for 2012 will shut down all nuc plants in our state. I'll be voting yes on that.


Just curious, what good will shutting down the plants do? Isn't there still radioactive material present, and it still requires maintenance/disposal? Where does it go? Someone else's backyard?

----------


## TheAmazingJimmy

> Shut your mouth.  Theyre busy throwing people in prison over raw milk and harmless plants that grow from the ground.


Are you talking about America or Japan?

----------


## ca4paul

> oh, come on now!  you is just afeared of what you don't understand!
> 
> /s


I say good riddance to them. It's already got into the ground water near laguna beach

----------


## ca4paul

> Just curious, what good will shutting down the plants do? Isn't there still radioactive material present, and it still requires maintenance/disposal? Where does it go? Someone else's backyard?


Because luckilly it hasn't spilled in large amounts yet and if there is a major quake/disaster, we're all $#@!ed. Getting rid of it is an issue but it's far less of an issue if most of it is removed and sent to a very remote location somewhere else.

----------


## Pericles

> Because luckilly it hasn't spilled in large amounts yet and if there is a major quake/disaster, we're all $#@!ed. Getting rid of it is an issue but it's far less of an issue if most of it is removed and sent to a very remote location somewhere else.


And it has the added advantage of moving up the timeline of the collapse of California's government by adding more economic stress to the state.

----------


## specialK

Just a small sample of some Japanese garbage that has been washing up on our shores lately, and plenty more headed this way. Not surprisingly, I've heard nothing about the garbage being tested for radioactivity.

----------


## steph3n

> Just a small sample of some Japanese garbage that has been washing up on our shores lately, and plenty more headed this way. Not surprisingly, I've heard nothing about the garbage being tested for radioactivity.


Where is this?

----------


## specialK

> Where is this?


West Coast of Vancouver Island.

Google Maps:

http://tinyurl.com/7lpq3gm

----------


## XNavyNuke

Surface contamination wouldn't survive the ocean crossing. Since the reactors where immediately shutdown, radiation levels were never high enough to result in neutron activation of materials external to the plant. Flotsam is subject to wind as well as water currents, so I'd be surprised if any of the material that you are seeing now predates the Fukushima incident.

What can 28,000 rubber duckies lost at sea teach us about our oceans?

XNN

----------


## specialK

> Surface contamination wouldn't survive the ocean crossing. Since the reactors where immediately shutdown, radiation levels were never high enough to result in neutron activation of materials external to the plant. Flotsam is subject to wind as well as water currents, so I'd be surprised if any of the material that you are seeing now predates the Fukushima incident.
> 
> What can 28,000 rubber duckies lost at sea teach us about our oceans?
> 
> XNN


Ya, it's hard to know what to believe anymore. Other scientists have gone on the record saying they *could be* contaminated and I doubt they will ever tell us whether they are or not, if and when they should decide to test them.

----------


## Kylie

Oh JOY!!!




> A nuclear reactor at a northern Illinois plant shut down Monday after losing power, and steam was being vented to reduce pressure, according to officials from Exelon Nuclear and federal regulators. Unit 2 at Byron Generating Station, about 95 miles northwest of Chicago, shut down at 10:18 a.m., after losing power, Exelon officials said. Diesel generators began supplying power to the plant, and operators began releasing steam to cool the reactor from the part of the plant where turbines are producing electricity, not from within the nuclear reactor itself, officials said. *The steam contains low levels of tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, but federal and plant officials insisted the levels were safe for workers and the public*.



http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?p...0131-33977-USA

----------


## Kylie

This thing is not getting any better


http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?p...-JPN&uid=12456




> One of Japan's crippled nuclear reactors still has fatally high radiation levels and hardly any water to cool it, according to an internal examination Tuesday that renews doubts about the plant's stability. A tool equipped with a tiny video camera, a thermometer, a dosimeter and a water gauge was used to assess damage inside the No. 2 reactor's containment chamber for the second time since the tsunami swept into the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant a year ago. The data collected showed the damage from the disaster was so severe, the plant operator will have to develop special equipment and technology to tolerate the harsh environment and decommission the plant, a process expected to last decades. *The other two reactors that had meltdowns could be in even worse shape*. The No. 2 reactor is the only one officials have been able to closely examine so far. Tuesday's examination with an industrial endoscope detected radiation levels up to 10 times the fatal dose inside the chamber. Plant officials previously said more than half of the melted fuel has breached the core and dropped to the floor of the primary containment vessel, some of it splashing against the wall or the floor.
> 
> Particles from melted fuel have probably sent radiation levels up to a dangerously high 70 sieverts per hour inside the container, said Junichi Matsumoto, spokesman for Tokyo Electric Power Co. The figure far exceeds the highest level previously detected, 10 sieverts per hour, which was detected around an exhaust duct shared by No. 1 and 2 units last year. "It's extremely high," he said, adding that an endoscope would last only 14 hours in those conditions. "We have to develop equipment that can tolerate high radiation" when locating and removing melted fuel during the decommissioning. *The probe also found that the containment vessel -- a beaker-shaped container enclosing the core -- had cooling water up to only 60 centimeters (2 feet) from the bottom, far below the 10 meters (yards) estimated when the government declared the plant stable in December.* The plant is continuing to pump water into the reactor. Video footage taken by the probe showed the water inside was clear but contained dark yellow sediments, believed to be fragments of rust, paint that had been peeled off or dust.
> 
> A probe done in January failed to find the water surface and provided only images showing steam, unidentified parts and rusty metal surfaces scarred by exposure to radiation, heat and humidity. Finding the water level was important to help locate damaged areas where radioactive water is escaping. Matsumoto said that the actual water level inside the chamber was way off the estimate, which had used data that turned out to be unreliable. But the results don't affect the plant's "cold shutdown status" because the water temperature was about 50 degrees Celsius (122 Fahrenheit), indicating the melted fuel is cooled. Three Dai-ichi reactors had meltdowns, but the No. 2 reactor is the only one that has been examined because radiation levels inside the reactor building are relatively low and its container is designed with a convenient slot to send in the endoscope. *The exact conditions of the other two reactors, where hydrogen explosions damaged their buildings, are still unknown*. Simulations have indicated that more fuel inside No. 1 has breached the core than the other two, but radiation at No. 3 remains the highest.
> 
> The high radiation levels inside the No. 2 reactor's chamber mean it's inaccessible to the workers, but parts of the reactor building are accessible for a few minutes at a time -- with the workers wearing full protection. Last year's massive earthquake and a tsunami set off the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl, sending three reactor cores to melt and causing massive radiation leaks. The government said in December that the reactors are safely cooled and the plant has stabilized, while experts have questioned its vulnerability. During a recent visit by a group of journalists including The Associated Press, the head of the plant said it remains vulnerable to strong aftershocks and tsunami, and that containing contaminated water and radiation is a challenge. Radioactive water had leaked into the ocean several times already. *Workers found a fresh leak of 120 tons from a water treatment unit this week from one of its hoses, with estimated 80 liters (20 gallons) escaping into the ocean,* Matsumoto said. Officials are still investigating its impact. Fukushima's accident has instilled public distrust and concerns about nuclear safety, making it difficult for the government to start up reactors even after regular safety checks. All but one of Japan's 54 reactors are now offline, with the last one scheduled to stop in early May.

----------


## coastie

> This thing is not getting any better
> 
> 
> http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?p...-JPN&uid=12456



  Great. Just fricking great. Guess we'll all have cancer and an extra set of ears on our asses here soon.

----------


## Kylie

> Great. Just fricking great. Guess we'll all have cancer and an extra set of ears on our asses here soon.



I'm guessing a serious uptick in cancers in the near future. 

But I'd rather have another mouth on my ass instead of ears. That way I can literally talk out of my ass instead of just figuratively.

----------


## coastie

> I'm guessing a serious uptick in cancers in the near future. 
> 
> But I'd rather have another mouth on my ass instead of ears. That way I can literally talk out of my ass instead of just figuratively.


LMAO...ooh, and you could also....nvm.

----------


## JacobSzumniak

I wanna go see Tokyo before its gone!

----------


## John F Kennedy III

Gee, I wonder who has the antidote...

----------


## JacobSzumniak

Wow this is pretty bad say another Earthquake or Tsunami hit Japan they are gonna end the world for everyone.

----------


## Carson

I saw this on Fark.com yesterday.

*
As of today, only one of the 54 nuclear reactors operating in Japan before the tsunami is still online; and it is due to be shut down in May*

Link to story;

http://news.yahoo.com/another-japan-...020706707.html


Link to Fark comment section;

http://www.fark.com/comments/7015125...ut-down-in-May

----------


## RonPaulMall

What is everyone's position on Green Tea from Japan?  Unsafe?

----------


## steph3n

> What is everyone's position on Green Tea from Japan?  Unsafe?


Buy from China where the best drying ingredient is melamine.....

(sarcasm)

----------


## coastie

> Buy from China where the best drying ingredient is melamine.....
> 
> (sarcasm)


Guess the sun doesn't suffice anymore?

----------


## devil21

If this is accurate it sounds kinda important!

Fukushima Reactor 4 structure is sinking unevenly?

http://www.naturalnews.com/037556_Fu..._collapse.html

----------


## Zippyjuan

I can't find any reliable sources which confirm this.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> If this is accurate it sounds kinda important!
> 
> Fukushima Reactor 4 structure is sinking unevenly?
> 
> http://www.naturalnews.com/037556_Fu..._collapse.html


I posted a couple of times buried in the pages of this thread, USGS and EU geospatial satellites have confirmed the eastern seaboard in the prefectures regions of Fukashima have shift east and down.

----------


## XNavyNuke

Honshu subsided almost 100 cm and eastward about 400 cm.

Cite: http://cires.colorado.edu/~bilham/Ho...onshu2011.html

XNN

----------


## Zippyjuan

From the quake, yeah.  Can't find evidence that Reactor 4 is sinking.

----------


## devil21

> I can't find any reliable sources which confirm this.


Not really surprising since the media isn't reporting on Fukushima any more and no wonder if this is actually happening.  The cited interviews have other sources though.

----------


## DamianTV

There is constant stuff on rense.com about fukushima.

----------


## Kylie

Going out on a crazy limb of the tree, here, but Edgar Cayce(yeah, I know) said that Japan must go into the sea. 

He also said that the better portion of the middle of our country would eventually be underwater too. Does anyone here know about the sinkhole in Assumption parish, LA? It's tied to the BP oil spill(through genetic testing of the oil found in the sinkhole) and it's now tainting an aquifer(supposedly) that runs into the New Madrid Seismic Zone. If the methane pockets from deep in the ocean have traversed that aquifer too, and they get the right composition with oxygen, they could theoretically blow it up. Bad news for anyone living in the mississippi river valley.....including me. 


Crazy old bat, that Edgar Cayce? You decide.

----------


## Noob

> Going out on a crazy limb of the tree, here, but Edgar Cayce(yeah, I know) said that Japan must go into the sea. 
> 
> He also said that the better portion of the middle of our country would eventually be underwater too. Does anyone here know about the sinkhole in Assumption parish, LA? It's tied to the BP oil spill(through genetic testing of the oil found in the sinkhole) and it's now tainting an aquifer(supposedly) that runs into the New Madrid Seismic Zone. If the methane pockets from deep in the ocean have traversed that aquifer too, and they get the right composition with oxygen, they could theoretically blow it up. Bad news for anyone living in the mississippi river valley.....including me. 
> 
> 
> Crazy old bat, that Edgar Cayce? You decide.


Earth expanding in size, not global warming like the web bots say?

http://laron-transients.blogspot.com...liff-high.html

----------


## Carson

Here is the story of one of the guys that was working the day of the earthquake and tidal wave.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...y-8517394.html

Also a link to comments on the story at Fark.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...y-8517394.html

----------


## Suzu

> Does anyone here know about the sinkhole in Assumption parish, LA?


Hadn't heard of that one, but yesterday I read about a new one in Florida.

----------


## Michigan11

What exactly ever happened with this situation in Japan and all the radiation dumping into the ocean? Are they all set over there now or hiding the news and such?

----------


## luctor-et-emergo

> What exactly ever happened with this situation in Japan and all the radiation dumping into the ocean? Are they all set over there now or hiding the news and such?


They quit talking about it...
But Wikipedia has a nice aggregate of information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiati...clear_disaster

----------


## Michigan11

> They quit talking about it...
> But Wikipedia has a nice aggregate of information.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiati...clear_disaster


That's amazing if you think about it.

----------


## devil21

> Hadn't heard of that one, but yesterday I read about a new one in Florida.


Hmm....video shown in article is NOT the house I just saw being represented as the sink hole house on MSNBC just now.  They showed demolition video of a small older yellow house, implying it was the same house.  The pic in the link above is not the same house.  Must have been stock footage on MSNBC.  The media sucks.

----------


## Suzu

> What exactly ever happened with this situation in Japan and all the radiation dumping into the ocean? Are they all set over there now or hiding the news and such?


It's still leaking into the Pacific. I wouldn't trust any fish from that ocean now -- especially the bigger ones and the bottom feeders.

----------


## NiceGoing

Methinks the whole story is fishy!

----------


## Dr.3D

> It's still leaking into the Pacific. I wouldn't trust any fish from that ocean now -- especially the bigger ones and the bottom feeders.


So how are we going to know if the tuna from the store came from the Pacific ocean?

----------


## idiom

But the Americans, French and British dumping nuclear waste into the Pacific and evaporating entire islands with tests was completely safe!

----------


## talkingpointes

> But the Americans, French and British dumping nuclear waste into the Pacific and evaporating entire islands with tests was completely safe!


Moreso: Cancer rates in the US have nothing to do with the fact we have exploded 2000 atom bombs on our continent, all smoking!

----------


## Zippyjuan

The US has not conducted any above ground nuclear testing since July 1962.  Our last underground test was in 1992. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_testing  Total nulear test explosions for the US is 1,054.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Japan's NHK just had a very informative special covering TEPCO and the Japan's governmental plans on sealing/securing Fukushima damaged plant/radiation contamination... the recovery designed plan now stands at 40 years.

They are dealing with core meltdowns in: #1, #2, & #3 reactors

External structure damage from Hydrogen explosions are to: #1, #2, & #4 reactor buildings

----------


## coastie

> So how are we going to know if the tuna from the store came from the Pacific ocean?


Bring one of these with you, duh:

----------


## Dr.3D

> Bring one of these with you, duh:


LOL

 But the can would act as shielding and throw off the amount of radiation recorded.  /s

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Moreso: Cancer rates in the US have nothing to do with the fact we have exploded 2000 atom bombs on our continent, all smoking!


Or all the nuclear bombs that have been set off in the atmosphere, weather modifications, weather weapons, etc

Nothing to see here. We're taking you to a secure location. For your safety.

It's for the children.

----------


## AFPVet

Radiation levels are actually pretty 'normal' for the most part. Heavier particles usually drop before they get anywhere populated. It takes a lot of radiation to build up in areas. Radioactive cesium and iodine are the ones you have to worry about... but we aren't seeing too much of that from the disaster.  

http://www.radiationnetwork.com/

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Radiation levels are actually pretty 'normal' for the most part. Heavier particles usually drop before they get anywhere populated. It takes a lot of radiation to build up in areas. Radioactive cesium and iodine are the ones you have to worry about... but we aren't seeing too much of that from the disaster.  
> 
> http://www.radiationnetwork.com/


From Last Fall
Stanford researchers calculate global health impacts of the Fukushima nuclear disaster




> Radiation from Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster may eventually cause approximately 130 deaths and 180 cases of cancer, mostly in Japan, Stanford researchers have calculated.





> Japanese government agencies, for example, evacuated a 20-kilometer radius around the plant, distributed iodine tablets to prevent radioiodine uptake and prohibited cultivation of crops above a radiation threshold  steps that Ten Hoeve said "people have applauded."
> 
> But the paper also notes that nearly 600 deaths were reported as a result of the evacuation process itself, mostly due to fatigue and exposure among the elderly and chronically ill. According to the model, the evacuation prevented at most 245 radiation-related deaths  meaning the evacuation process may have cost more lives than it saved.


So basically the government DID kill 600 to possibly save the lives of 245 of a total of 375 POTENTIAL deaths. Many in the Japanese government have said the evacuations were not extensive enough. This of course would have led to more evacuation related deaths, but the politicians would have looked darned good in their overly compassionate silks.

XNN

----------


## Suzu

> So how are we going to know if the tuna from the store came from the Pacific ocean?


Often the origin of tinned fish is listed on the label.

----------


## ghengis86

> Often the origin of tinned fish is listed on the label.


Yes, the genus and species, the ocean and the location (usually just a number) are on fish product labels. I thinks it's a government reg/requirement. Only thing is, 84% of chunk white tuna was recently found to actually be Escolar, a fish that among other bad things, can cause an oily anal discharge. 

Know your source and don't trust anyone but your own two eyes

----------


## Carson

> What exactly ever happened with this situation in Japan and all the radiation dumping into the ocean? Are they all set over there now or hiding the news and such?



Here is a dog and pony show that was put on just for people with that question. 

Well at least it looked to me like they all showed up briefly for the camera. 

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...nation-efforts

----------


## NiceGoing

> Here is a dog and pony show that was put on just for people with that question. 
> 
> Well at least it looked to me like they all showed up briefly for the camera. 
> 
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...nation-efforts


A few crumbs for the curious is most certainly how it looks. 

Hey, we the major media, wouldn't _never_ lie to you guys..

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

FYI... 58 years old



> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...of-cancer.html 
> 
> *Former Fukushima nuclear plant boss dies of cancer*
> 
> *The former boss of the Fukushima nuclear plant, who stayed at his  post to try to tame reactors after Japan's earthquake and tsunami in  2011, has died of throat cancer.*
>  
> *Former chief of Japan's crippled Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant, Masao Yoshida Photo: AP*
> By AFP
> 12:58PM BST 09 Jul 2013
> ...

----------


## libertyjam

Fukushima Groundwater Shows Record Radiation Levels

Reuters  |  Posted: 07/09/2013 7:06 am EDT  |  Updated: 07/10/2013 8:25 am EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3565767.html

----------


## osan

> FYI... 58 years old


Nothing to see here prole scum.  Now move the hell along before I demonstrate the brute force of The State.

Vermin filth.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Fukushima Sounds awful... any independent monitors on the Pacific ocean region around  Migayi prefecture? 


> *The   tested water, which had been mixing with ground water and flowing   into the ocean, contained 2.35 billion Becquerels of cesium per   liter  some 16 million times above the limit.*





> *Radioactive water overruns Fukushima barrier - TEPCO*
> 
> http://rt.com/news/fukushima-water-overrun-barrier-335/
> Published time: August 10, 2013 14:16                                                            
>                                 Edited time: August 10, 2013 15:13                                                                                                                                                                                                       
> 
> An  aerial view shows workers wearing protective suits and masks work at a  construction site (C) of the shore barrier to stop radioactive water  from leaking into the sea at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant on  August 9, 2013. (Reuters/Kyodo)





> *Water leaks at Fukushima could contaminate entire Pacific Ocean*
> 
> http://rt.com/op-edge/japan-fukushim...vironment-229/
> 
>                                                                                                         Published time: August 08, 2013 14:16                                                                                                  
> This  photo taken on August 6, 2013 shows local government officials and  nuclear experts inspecting a construction site to prevent the seepage of  contamination water into the sea, at Tokyo Electric Power's (TEPCO)  Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant in Okuma, Fukushima prefecture. (AFP  Photo / Jiji Press)







> *Fukushima leaking radioactive water for 2 years, 300 tons flowing into Pacific daily*
> 
> http://rt.com/news/japan-fukushima-n...-disaster-164/
> Published time: August 07, 2013 10:07                                                            
>                                 Edited time: August 08, 2013 11:05                                                                                                                                                            Get short URL 
> 
> A  laboratory technician uses a Geiger counter to measure radiation levels  in fish, which was caught close to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant  (Reuters / Issei Kato)

----------


## Carson

Wow! Those pictures seem to show a lot of activity has been going on. 

I hope some plan has been carefully calculated. The men and women doing the work deserve every consideration.

----------


## osan

> Wow! Those pictures seem to show a lot of activity has been going on. 
> 
> I hope some plan has been carefully calculated. The men and women doing the work deserve every consideration.


Don't be naive.  These people have absolutely no idea what they are doing.  Reminds me of that old AAMCO commercial:

CUT TO:

EXTERIOR, DAY - we see chimpanzees with bats frenetically beating on Fukushima reactor buildings.  

VO: "Don't worry, our engineers are experts."

END: of world as we know it.  Coming soon to a location frighteningly too near to you.

What I wonder about is how the rocket surgeons running this global circus plan on avoiding the consequences of all this?

----------


## alucard13mm

One thing I don't get is... how come the elite are not panicking. Obviously the long term, radiation, cancer causing isotopes are indescriminate killers and can kill the elites.

----------


## roho76

The people trying to solve this are the same ones who decided it was a good idea to build a nuclear reactor on a known earthquake prone area. I don't hold much faith.

----------


## devil21

Fukushima had a core melt-through, not just a meltdown.  The nuclear fuel is burrowing into the ground water.  There's nothing that can be done to stop it.  Been following it but trying not to think about it too much.

I still support nuclear power and think it's the best overall option we have with currently disseminated technology but building a plant right next to the ocean was just plain $#@!ing dumb.

----------


## devil21

> One thing I don't get is... how come the elite are not panicking. Obviously the long term, radiation, cancer causing isotopes are indescriminate killers and can kill the elites.


What makes you think they aren't?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Fukushima had a core melt-through, not just a meltdown.  The nuclear fuel is burrowing into the ground water.  There's nothing that can be done to stop it.  Been following it but trying not to think about it too much.
> 
> I still support nuclear power and think it's the best overall option we have with currently disseminated technology but building a plant right next to the ocean was just plain $#@!ing dumb.


Evidence of this?

----------


## Lucille

> Evidence of this?


Your govt handlers really should do a better job of keeping you informed, so you can more credibly misinform.

Radioactive Water Spills Over Fukushima Barrier, Flooding Surroundings
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...g-surroundings




> It was only last week that yet another conspiracy theory became fact when we learned, for the first time after nearly three years of lies, that Tepco had been deceitful and wrong with its "all clear" message about Fukushima, and that instead some 300 tons of contaminated, irradiated water had been flowing into the Pacific ocean every day. So now that the opportunity cost of telling more lies is zero, and the radioactive cat is out of the bag, so to say, the news about the absolute, unmitigated disaster that Fukushima is, and will be for decades, are coming fast and furious. Sure enough, moments ago Tepco reported, and Kyodo confirmed, that radioactive water has risen above the protective barrier and is freely leaking into the surrounding environment...

----------


## Zippyjuan

Evidence that the core is burrowing into the ground? You show a water leak.



> that radioactive water has risen above the protective barrier and

----------


## Lucille

Hirohito's revenge.

China Syndrome? Former Japan Official: Underground rumblings heard in Fukushima plant area night of March 14, 2011  Caused by melted fuel underground (VIDEO)
http://enenews.com/former-japan-offi...erground-video

Fukushima: China Syndrome Is Inevitable  Huge Steam Explosions, Massive Hydrovolcanic Explosion or a Nuclear Bomb-Type Explosion May Occur
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/...may-occur.html

TV: Very likely some of Fukushimas melted cores have moved into the earth  Its beyond containment right now (VIDEO)
http://enenews.com/tv-very-likely-th...ight-now-video







> At 3:45 in
> 
>     Paul Gunter director of the reactor oversight project at Beyond Nuclear: Indications are right now that the reactor structures themselves have been breached.
> 
>     Its very likely that some of the radioactive material  the melted cores  have moved into the earth.


2 Year Anniversary of Fukushima: The Accident Is NOT Contained
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/...contained.html




http://enenews.com/category/location/japan

----------


## devil21

> Evidence of this?


Way too many articles and discussions to peg it down to a single source, never-mind TEPCO's lack of information, but here's a good start.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...wer-plant?lite




> TOKYO -- Steam is rising from a destroyed building that houses a reactor at Japan's crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the operator of the plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co, said on Thursday.
> 
> The utility, widely known as Tepco, said the levels of radioactivity around the plant had remained unchanged and it was still looking into what triggered the emission.
> 
> "We think it's possible that rain made its way through the reactor building and having fallen on the primary containment vessel, which is hot, evaporated creating steam," said Tepco spokeswoman Maymi Yoshida, adding it was still investigating the matter.





> The latest findings underscore the difficulties Tepco is facing in trying to keep the ravaged plant under control. About a week ago a huge spike in radioactive cesium was detected in groundwater 25 meters from the sea.


The steam is a good first clue because what happens when red hot core material reaches the water table?  Steam.

Since meltdowns were already confirmed, the fact that the core would melt through was a foregone conclusion even years ago.  Only a question of when.  And the answer looks like _now_.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...2-2479102.html

I can't find the video off-hand but I remember the TEPCO engineer crying on camera a week after it happened.  He knew what was up.  He knew then they couldn't stop what was happening.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Steam is proof of heat- not necessarily of a core meltdown.

----------


## devil21

> Steam is proof of heat- not necessarily of a core meltdown.


Steam is proof of water and heat.  There was another steam plume reported two days later.  Rainwater.  Pfffffft.  As if it's never rained there in the last two years.

Pictures of Chernobyl's melted core here:
http://gallery.spaceman.ca/main.php?g2_itemId=4130

Fortunately it did not make it into the ground.  If steam is present then it's very possible that the core has reached the water table.  I'm convinced that's what has happened.  Even if I'm wrong, periodic intentional steam release is also a very bad bad sign.

----------


## devil21

> Steam is proof of heat- not necessarily of a core meltdown.


Are you contesting that there's been a core meltdown?????

----------


## NiceGoing

> What makes you think they aren't?


Well..
Experience has shown that the 'Elite" do not panic, but DO cause others to panic...
That is the why they are called Elite.

They are sitting in the catbird seat, in other words.

So Alucard's question is a very sound one and leads to interesting speculation, such as:  Is this real or is this typical media fear promotion? that is the question, to my mind.

----------


## thoughtomator

> Evidence of this?


The problem is not nuclear power; it's the type of reactor that's the problem. Most old nuclear reactors were created to have the side benefit of producing plutonium for nuclear weapons, the main reason those designs were chosen over designs that don't produce weaponizable output.

If we built thorium reactors instead of plutonium reactors the risk in the nuclear industry would be incredibly low. They can't melt down, they can't blow up, and their "waste" is simply more fuel for the next cycle.

You don't hear about these because the vested interests that would be speared are powerful and numerous.

----------


## asurfaholic

The fact that there isn't any media reminders and fear mongering scares me. 

But I have no clue exactly what's happening, but the silence is deafening.

----------


## jbauer

> Steam is proof of water and heat.  There was another steam plume reported two days later.  Rainwater.  Pfffffft.  As if it's never rained there in the last two years.
> 
> Pictures of Chernobyl's melted core here:
> http://gallery.spaceman.ca/main.php?g2_itemId=4130
> 
> Fortunately it did not make it into the ground.  If steam is present then it's very possible that the core has reached the water table.  I'm convinced that's what has happened.  Even if I'm wrong, periodic intentional steam release is also a very bad bad sign.


Shouldn't steam also indicate that the water was relatively close to the surface/air?  I don't know how high the water table is there but even if its only a couple feet below the surface the temperature of the earth itself would soak up the energy in the water vapor turning it back into plain old water.

----------


## jbauer

> The fact that there isn't any media reminders and fear mongering scares me. 
> 
> But I have no clue exactly what's happening, but the silence is deafening.


Theres also no media coverage about whether Santa Clause is coming this Christmas but that doesn't mean it is or isn't going to happen.  Your CNN's and Fox's of the world need to report about some stupid baby being born in England and about some judge in TN changing a name because they've got nothing better to talk about.  "The end of humanity as we know it" is a pretty compelling news story.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

The title of this thread, started March 11, 2011 is, "Japanese nuclear plant may only have *a few hours.*"

'Nuff said.

----------


## devil21

> Shouldn't steam also indicate that the water was relatively close to the surface/air?  I don't know how high the water table is there but even if its only a couple feet below the surface the temperature of the earth itself would soak up the energy in the water vapor turning it back into plain old water.


From my reading, the water table is very close to the surface there but I don't have specific numbers.  I'm not following your reasoning on the rest of your post though.




> Well..
> Experience has shown that the 'Elite" do not panic, but DO cause others to panic...
> That is the why they are called Elite.
> 
> They are sitting in the catbird seat, in other words.
> 
> So Alucard's question is a very sound one and leads to interesting speculation, such as:  Is this real or is this typical media fear promotion? that is the question, to my mind.


I haven't seen much media reporting overall about this in years, particularly not from msm sources enough to consider any fear promotion.  Seems most folks have forgotten about Fukushima entirely.  Pretty poor fear promotion if that's the goal.  An article here and there on CNN maybe but the status is being reported mostly by alternative sites and bloggers.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> The title of this thread, started March 11, 2011 is, "Japanese nuclear plant may only have *a few hours.*"
> 
> 'Nuff said.


A "few hours" is up. Nothing went "boom".

----------


## kahless

> A "few hours" is up. Nothing went "boom".


It did in fact go boom and spread radiation into the ocean and lower levels all over the globe, among other things. People have too much faith in the news media.  Once a story is out of the news cycle or if they don't report it does not mean everything is wonderful.

----------


## devil21

What could go wrong?

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/14-6

Sure hope TEPCO knows what's doing....

----------


## Zippyjuan

> It did in fact go boom and spread radiation into the ocean and lower levels all over the globe, among other things. People have too much faith in the news media.  Once a story is out of the news cycle or if they don't report it does not mean everything is wonderful.


Link to spike in radiation levels around the globe?

----------


## kahless

> Link to spike in radiation levels around the globe?


Have not been reading this thread?  There were a multitude of links posted in this thread including the Austrian models that were tracking fallout across the US, contamination of seaweed off the coast of California, radioactive rain in various parts of North America, etc.




http://cerea.enpc.fr/en/fukushima.html

Seach "Fukushima explosion" in youtube.  There are many videos showing the explosions and subsequent mushroom cloud when the reactors went "boom".

There were links to IAEA and Fairwinds.org in this thread.  
http://www.iaea.org/blog/feeds/?p=47...ress+Review%29
http://fairewinds.org/

A simple google search turns up more.




> http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...s_asia-pacific
> As Fukushima fallout circles the globe, nuclear sleuths sift it for clues Fallout from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has landed on 30 exquisitely sensitive detectors on desolate Arctic islands, on the tops of tall buildings and in other windy locales across the Northern Hemisphere, according to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization, which maintains those sensors. Sniffing the air like silent sentinels, the 63 shack-like stations (with 17 more planned) are capturing tiny radioactive particles in filters much like those on a home furnace.


Fukushima fallout may be causing illness in American babies: Study
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...165531579.html

----------


## Carson

> Have not been reading this thread?  There were a multitude of links posted in this thread including the Austrian models that were tracking fallout across the US, contamination of seaweed off the coast of California, radioactive rain in various parts of North America, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cerea.enpc.fr/en/fukushima.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Nice little you tube of the dispersion.

I always pictured it more as continuing it's travel eastward with the jet stream. I would think a certain percentage would rain out and add a certain amount of temperature rise. I'm thinking this is a bad place to do that in respect that it may cause a change in weather. 

Here is a picture of the basic wind currents.

http://mrmusselman.edublogs.org/file...4-1pve4ph.jpeg

I'm thinking not only are we messing with those currents but we also just had the Gulf oil spill that I picture would have deposited a lot of oil condensing out of the atmosphere and raining out up through the heartland. I'm not sure if it could easily be detected but I picture it happening and effecting drainage and the water absorption for a time.

----------


## RonPaulFanInGA

A long "few hours."

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Have not been reading this thread?  There were a multitude of links posted in this thread including the Austrian models that were tracking fallout across the US, contamination of seaweed off the coast of California, radioactive rain in various parts of North America, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cerea.enpc.fr/en/fukushima.html
> 
> Seach "Fukushima explosion" in youtube.  There are many videos showing the explosions and subsequent mushroom cloud when the reactors went "boom".
> 
> ...


From the link to the "cloud":



> The* simulation* was performed with a specific version of the numerical atmospheric chemistry and transport model Polyphemus/Polair3D. The parametrisations used for the transport and physical removal of the radionuclides are described in [6,7,8,9]. 
> 
> The source term has been *estimated* by the assimilation of activity concentrations in the air as well as activity deposited on the ground [1,2]. 
> 
> *The magnitude of the deposition field is uncertain and the simulated values of deposited radionuclides could be significantly different from the actual deposition.* In particular, the source term remains uncertain, athough its uncertainty has been narrowed down thanks to data assimilation.


Levels outside Japan were little different from background levels. (note the light blue colors used in the simulation indicating very low levels with the orange and red ones they show for levels after Chernobyl at the same link).


http://cerea.enpc.fr/en/fukushima.html

----------


## kahless

Not really trying here but there is a multitude of information out there about US fallout from Fukushima.

http://healthyliving.msn.com/blogs/d...c-b71c94fa6788




> The explosions produced the radioisotope iodine-131, which floated east over the Pacific Ocean and landed through precipitation on West Coast states as well as other Pacific countries. The levels of that isotope were measured in levels hundreds of times greater than supposedly safe levels. Radioactive iodine accumulates in human thyroid glands, and,  in babies and fetuses, the radiation can stunt the growth and development of both the body and the brain. That condition is congenital hypothyroidism (which, luckily, is treatable when and if detected early).
> 
> Fukushima fallout appeared to affect all areas of the U.S., and was especially large in some, mostly in the western part of the nation, the study said. Even worse, other conditions affecting babies born in that time frame may have been caused or worsened by Fukushima, the researchers said.


Fukushima fallout may be causing illness in American babies: Study
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...165531579.html

2,110 percent increase in iodine-131 on US West Coast following Fukushima linked to hypothyroidism
http://www.prisonplanet.com/study-fu...her-areas.html

Officials: Radiation From Japan Reaches Pennsylvania
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...-health-risks/



> level of radiation in the Limerick sample was 30 times the recommended safe drinking standard


Some where back in this thread there is a link about miscarriages related to fallout at higher levels in a PA reservoir.

Peer Reviewed Study Shows 14,000 U.S. Deaths from Fukushima -RT 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdow_6pN6jY   2 min mark

----------


## devil21

> A "few hours" is up. Nothing went "boom".





> A long "few hours."


Perhaps you should reread the original post that the thread title was based on.  

Putting it in proper context, the thread title would be "Japanese nuclear plant may only have a few hours until meltdowns start."

Meltdowns started.  So you were saying?

----------


## Zippyjuan

Iodine 131 only has a half life of eight days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine-131

From the Pennsylvania article:



> Governor Tom Corbett confirmed Monday that rainwater samples *taken Friday at the state’s nuclear power plants* – including the Limerick plant in Montgomery County – showed *elevated* levels of radioactive Iodine, likely from Japan.


Source could have also been the local nuclear power plants. 




> but still 25 times below a level of concern, officials said.





> In response, Corbett ordered the testing of drinking water samples from six locations across the state and *officials say they found no radioactive Iodine*.

----------


## KingNothing



----------


## KingNothing

I've found that the dumber a person is, the more they fear nuclear power.

----------


## devil21

> Iodine 131 only has a half life of eight days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine-131


Take some and let us know how you feel 8 days later.

----------


## KingNothing

It's a shame that what most people know about nuclear power and radiation comes from a Jane Fonda movie.

----------


## kahless

It is a shame that those that blindly support the operators failures have to resort to ad hominem attacks and spout industry propaganda to provide cover for the industries failures. Nuclear power would not be getting such bad press if the operators followed scientific method and their own damn safety protocols. 

It is a shame that the protesters who were against building the plant there due to the Tsunami threat lost out to the supporters.  

It is a shame that statists love nuclear power. This may eventually change with newer technologies but currently they cannot be built without taxpayer funding and when the current technology is no longer profitable they will require a tax base to maintain them.  So I nor my descendents will ever live freely due to perpetual tax servitude required by the nuclear power industry.

----------


## kahless

> "but still 25 times below a level of concern, officials said. "


"level of radiation in the Limerick sample was 30 times the recommended safe drinking standard ". 

A bit contradictory.  I remember some articles posted earlier in the thread that they were raising the safety limits to accommodate the increased levels from Fukushima.

----------


## Zippyjuan

More on Philly:
http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-1...ent-iodine-131




> Authorities are investigating why samples of drinking water from three sites in Philadelphia had a higher level of radioactive iodine than water in other cities.
> 
> Levels of Iodine-131 found April 4 in samples from treated water at the Queen Lane, Baxter, and Belmont plants were considered within federal safety standards, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.
> 
> The most common sources of Iodine-131 are nuclear reactors and weapons, but doctors also use it to diagnose and treat thyroid illnesses.
> 
> Of 69 sites it tested nationally, the EPA found the highest amount of radioactive iodine at the city's Queen Lane Treatment Plant in East Falls.
> 
> The city is working with the EPA and the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection to determine the cause.
> ...

----------


## kahless

> More on Philly:
> http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-1...ent-iodine-131


So take Philly out the equation then which is pretty insignificant when you look at it.

----------


## libertyjam

http://enenews.com/u-s-govt-model-sh...misphere-video

NOAA estimation C-137 aerosol dispersion - Northern Hemisphere





http://enenews.com/french-map-cesium...apan-map-video

french-map-cesium-137-deposition


http://cerea.enpc.fr/en/fukushima.html

Xenon-133 and caesium-137 releases into the atmosphere from the
Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant: determination of the
source term, atmospheric dispersion, and deposition

Modeling radiocesium bioaccumulation
in a marine food chain

http://vceenviroscience.edublogs.org...tive-elements/

Modeling the Bioaccumulation Potential of Cesium 137 in a Marine Food Web of the Northwest Pacific, Canada

----------


## Zippyjuan

> So take Philly out the equation then which is pretty insignificant when you look at it.



You are right. Radiation levels in the US from Fukushima have been pretty insignificant.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> http://enenews.com/u-s-govt-model-sh...misphere-video
> 
> 
> 
> http://enenews.com/french-map-cesium...apan-map-video
> 
> http://cerea.enpc.fr/en/fukushima.html
> 
> Xenon-133 and caesium-137 releases into the atmosphere from the
> ...


From one of your links:



> Only 0.7 PBq, or *1.9% of the total fallout* were deposited on
> land areas other than Japan.


http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/12/23...-2313-2012.pdf

----------


## libertyjam

PBq = 1 x10^15 Bq 

not as much as Chernobyl, but still Cs-137, moreover maps do not account for the continuous leakage of water over the last 2 years into the Pacific. 

Now go read the articles on bio-accumulation.

----------


## kahless

> You are right. Radiation levels in the US from Fukushima have been pretty insignificant.


No, I was saying Philly is such a small area compared to all the states that had fall out. 

If you want to believe it is insignificant and provide cover for the operator of an event that they should have been prepared for then think about this.   Do you really want every nuclear power company operating their plants like Tepco?  

I am curious, what is your relationship with the industry?  Usually when I find people defensive of operator error it is typically someone that has some connection to the industry.  Like a union worker worried about losing their job, someone who works for an operator or someone who has family member or a college professor that is a nuclear power evangelist.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> PBq = 1 x10^15 Bq 
> 
> not as much as Chernobyl, but still Cs-137, moreover maps do not account for the continuous leakage of water over the last 2 years into the Pacific. 
> 
> Now go read the articles on bio-accumulation.


That is the estimated total amount spread across ALL LANDMASSES in the WORLD outside of Japan (80% actually ended up in the oceans).

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...hernobyl_.html




> However, the amount of iodine-131 escaping from *all the reactors* at Fukushima Daiichi was less than 10 percent of the amount released at Chernobyl, and the release of caesium-137, the next most important fission product, was *less than 15 percent of the Chernobyl total*.


Since Fukushima was only 15% of Chenobryl in total emissions and only 1.9% of those emissions reached land outside of Japan, that means that the world land mass (aside from Japan) was exposed to 0.28% of what it got from Chernobyl (less than three tenths of one percent). 

A discussion on a physics forum comparing Fukushima to Chernobryl: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=489491

----------


## libertyjam

> That is the estimated total amount spread across ALL LANDMASSES in the WORLD outside of Japan.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...hernobyl_.html


Slate is using some really BS numbers there. The conservative estimates put the F release at 33% of Chernobyl for I and Cs. 

Moreover, I report the info for people to look and decide for themselves, Zippy goes through and finds the lowest numbers he can find of the range of estimates and reports an agenda. 
Nor does he include the rest of the pertinent parts of that paper: 

This
first guess was subsequently improved by inverse modeling,
which combined it with the results of an atmospheric trans-
port model, FLEXPART, and measurement data from several
dozen stations in Japan, North America and other regions.
We used both atmospheric activity concentration measure-
ments as well as, for 137 Cs, measurements of bulk deposi-
tion. Regarding 133 Xe, we find a total release of 15.3 (un-
certainty range 12.218.3) EBq, which is more than twice as
high as the total release from Chernobyl and likely the largest
radioactive noble gas release in history. The entire noble gas
inventory of reactor units 13 was set free into the atmo-
sphere between 11 and 15 March 2011. In fact, our release
estimate is higher than the entire estimated 133 Xe inventory
of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant, which we
explain with the decay of iodine-133 (half-life of 20.8 h) into
133 Xe. There is strong evidence that the 133 Xe release started
before the first active venting was made, possibly indicating
structural damage to reactor components and/or leaks due to
overpressure which would have allowed early release of no-
ble gases. For 137 Cs, the inversion results give a total emis-
sion of 36.6 (20.153.1) PBq, or about 43 % of the estimated
Chernobyl emission. Our results indicate that 137 Cs emis-
sions peaked on 1415 March but were generally high from
12 until 19 March, when they suddenly dropped by orders of
magnitude at the time when spraying of water on the spent-
fuel pool of unit 4 started. This indicates that emissions may
not have originated only from the damaged reactor cores, but
also from the spent-fuel pool of unit 4. This would also con-
firm that the spraying was an effective countermeasure. We
explore the main dispersion and deposition patterns of the ra-
dioactive cloud, both regionally for Japan as well as for the
entire Northern Hemisphere. While at first sight it seemed
fortunate that westerly winds prevailed most of the time dur-
ing the accident, a different picture emerges from our de-
tailed analysis. Exactly during and following the period of
the strongest 137 Cs emissions on 14 and 15 March as well
as after another period with strong emissions on 19 March,
the radioactive plume was advected over Eastern Honshu Is-
land, where precipitation deposited a large fraction of
137 Cs on land surfaces. Radioactive clouds reached North Amer-
ica on 15 March and Europe on 22 March. By middle of
April,133 Xe was fairly uniformly distributed in the middle
latitudes of the entire Northern Hemisphere and was for the
first time also measured in the Southern Hemisphere (Dar-
win station, Australia). In general, simulated and observed
concentrations of 133 Xe and
137 Cs both at Japanese as well
as at remote sites were in good quantitative agreement. Alto-
gether, we estimate that 6.4 PBq of
137Cs, or 18 % of the total
fallout until 20 April, were deposited over Japanese land ar-
eas, while most of the rest fell over the North Pacific Ocean.
Only 0.7 PBq, or 1.9 % of the total fallout were deposited on
land areas other than Japan.

 Also:  PBS: 30 times more strontium-90 than cesium at Fukushima and strontium is much more dangerous this is a problem  Researchers far from plant surprised by how much continuing radioactivity they found  Like ongoing experiment

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Slate is using some really BS numbers there. The conservative estimates put the F release at 33% of Chernobyl for I and Cs. 
> 
> Moreover, I report the info for people to look and decide for themselves, Zippy goes through and finds the lowest numbers he can find of the range of estimates and reports an agenda. 
> Nor does he include the rest of the pertinent parts of that paper: 
> 
> This
> first guess was subsequently improved by inverse modeling,
> which combined it with the results of an atmospheric trans-
> port model, FLEXPART, and measurement data from several
> ...


OK- 33% of Chernobyl. Thank you for other numbers.  




> In general, simulated and observed
>  concentrations of 133 Xe and
>  137 Cs both at Japanese as well
>  as at remote sites were in good quantitative agreement. *Alto-
>  gether*, we estimate that 6.4 PBq of
>  137Cs, or 18 % of the total
>  fallout until 20 April, were deposited over Japanese land ar-
>  eas, while most of the rest fell over the North Pacific Ocean.
>  Only 0.7 PBq, or 1.9 % of the total fallout were deposited on
>  land areas other than Japan.


It is true that strontium 90 has been found in water at the site. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22964089




> High levels of a toxic radioactive isotope have been found in groundwater at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant, its operator says.
> 
> Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) said tests showed Strontium-90 was present at 30 times the legal rate.
> 
> The radioactive isotope tritium has also been detected at elevated levels.
> 
> The plant, crippled by the 2011 earthquake and tsunami, has recently seen a series of water leaks and power failures.
> 
> The tsunami knocked out cooling systems to the reactors, which melted down. 
> ...





> Detecting increasing levels of the highly radioactive substance Strontium-90 indicates that Tepco is still struggling to contain the Fukushima reactors. 
> 
> Water continues to be a massive problem as the company is running out of storage space for the large amounts of the liquid they use every day as to cool the plant. 
> 
> On top of that around 400 tonnes of groundwater flow into the reactor buildings every day. They have even dug up 12 relief wells near the site in an effort to halt the ingress. 
> 
> As to the high levels of Strontium-90 detected, it has a half life of 29 years. This means that in humans it can continue to irradiate them for many years. It can be ingested from food or water and tends to concentrate in the bones and is believed to cause cancer there. 
> 
> In animal studies, exposure to Strontium-90 also caused harmful reproductive effects. *These effects happened when animals were exposed to doses more than a million times higher than typical exposure levels for humans.*


One comparison between it and Chernobyl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...lear_accidents

In Chernobyl, Strontium 90 wasn't just at the site, but blasted out into the surrounding countries.

----------


## devil21

Groundwater contamination explanation video

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/newsl...308191510.html
------
Pacific fish showing radiation poisoning symptoms

http://enenews.com/biologist-pacific...-summer-of-201

which is leading the Canadian gov't to start radiation testing of fish caught

http://enenews.com/canadian-govt-pla...hima-radiation

----------


## Suzu

There was a good article on RT.com the other day.

http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocaly...l-removal-598/

----------


## osan

> There was a good article on RT.com the other day.
> 
> http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocaly...l-removal-598/


What a cluster copulation - who builds such a site near the sea on the ring of fire and atop a strong groundwater structure?  Liquefaction?  That's what they need.

Now, imagine if they have another slip in the plates with another tsunami.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

HORRIBLE state of conditions at Fukushima... there's a very big difference between 'Nuclear Waste' and 'Spent Fuel'  NW is a much bigger weight/size problem, not a big problem, as it is much lower radioactive/poisonous properties. SF is a very serious problem, highly radioactive, but much smaller physical characteristics and can be reprocessed/remarked. XNavyNuke should jump in hear and correct and clarify my statement and the situation on the dangers/options:


> Spent fuel pools were never   intended for long-term storage, they were only to assist   short-term movement of fuel. Using them as a long-term storage   pool is a huge mistake that* has become an 'acceptable' practice   and repeated at every reactor site worldwide.*



In more important news, Barry boasts on Twitter of new puppy. 


> There was a good article on RT.com the other day.
> 
> http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocaly...l-removal-598/

----------


## kahless

Japan nuclear agency upgrades Fukushima alert level 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23776345



> Japan's nuclear agency has upgraded the severity level of a radioactive water leak at the Fukushima plant from one to three on an international scale. 
> Highly radioactive water was found to be leaking from a storage tank into the ground at the plant on Monday. It was first classified as a level one incident on the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (Ines). 
> 
> There have been leaks of water in the past but this one is being seen as the most serious to date, because of the volume - 300 tonnes of radioactive water, according to Tepco - and high levels of radioactivity in the water.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Japan nuclear agency upgrades Fukushima alert level





> The Nuclear Regulation Authority appraised the leak of 300 tons of highly radioactive water from a surface tank as the equivalent of Level 3 on the eight-level International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES). The decision came after the NRA estimated the total amount of radioactive materials in the leaked water at 24 trillion becquerels.


24 Trillion?!?!?. OMG! 

Now, for the non-journalist lets do some math. 24 trillion becquerels works out to about 650 curies in 81,000 gallons (300 tons) of water for a concentration of about 8 milliCuries per gallon. If you took a gallon jug of water and evaporated it down to a single speck so that you remove the shielding effects of water itself to the alpha and beta flux, you now have a radiation field at 1 meter away that is giving a dose of ~8 millirem/hour. That certainly qualifies as a radiation field here in the US where restrictions are placed on anything that creates a field of >2 millirem/hr at a distance of 30 cm.

Of course all of this water is being dumped into the ocean and diluted by the Pacific. However for the sake of argument instead of the Pacific, lets say the 300 tons of water ended up in a confined body of water like Matsukawa-Ura Bay just up the coast from the Daiichi site. There the 300 tons is diluted by the volume of the Bay (~10 giga liters) making the concentration 65 nanoCuries per liter. Were I to take a swim in the bay at that point I would be more likely to die of an acquired cryptosporidiosis infection than cancer. A typical fluorescent lamp started contains tens of nanocuries of beta-gamma emitting Krypton gas.

Can the water be recovered? Probably not. The majority of it is probably already floating around the Pacific. Was it stupid for TEPCO to build a cofferdam around the tanks and leave the drain valve open to deal with rainwater. Duh! Yes. Should TEPCO have gone to the minor expense of telemeterizing each of the tanks? Again Duh! Yes. Is the world going to end because of this leak? Considering the millions of Curies of material that have already been released. No.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> HORRIBLE state of conditions at Fukushima... there's a very big difference between 'Nuclear Waste' and 'Spent Fuel'  NW is a much bigger weight/size problem, not a big problem, as it is much lower radioactive/poisonous properties. SF is a very serious problem, highly radioactive, but much smaller physical characteristics and can be reprocessed/remarked. XNavyNuke should jump in hear and correct and clarify my statement and the situation on the dangers/options:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Spent fuel pools were never intended for long-term storage, they were only to assist short-term movement of fuel. Using them as a long-term storage pool is a huge mistake that has become an 'acceptable' practice and repeated at every reactor site worldwide.


Spent fuel pools are meant to holds fuel rods until most of the decay heat is removed. That is why the pools have an active cooling system. It takes about 10 years in a pool before they are at a point where there is the option of moving them to a dry cask storage system. I guess it all depends on the author's definition of "long-term". 

You are correct that there is a difference between radioactive waste and spent fuel. There is much more (weight & volume) of radioactive waste in the world than there is spent fuel. Radioactive waste gets stored. Spent fuel has the option of getting reprocessed.




> In more important news, Barry boasts on Twitter of new puppy.


Christina Consolo, who is quoted in the story, is ignorant about that which she speaks. She may be a highly qualified medical radiology technician but that doesn't mean she groks a criticality accident. Precise geometry of fuel rods relative to one another is what makes a sustained reaction possible. Too far or too close that the process is dampened.

XNN

----------


## Acala

> Spent fuel pools are meant to holds fuel rods until most of the decay heat is removed. That is why the pools have an active cooling system. It takes about 10 years in a pool before they are at a point where there is the option of moving them to a dry cask storage system. I guess it all depends on the author's definition of "long-term". 
> 
> You are correct that there is a difference between radioactive waste and spent fuel. There is much more (weight & volume) of radioactive waste in the world than there is spent fuel. Radioactive waste gets stored. Spent fuel has the option of getting reprocessed.
> 
> 
> 
> Christina Consolo, who is quoted in the story, is ignorant about that which she speaks. She may be a highly qualified medical radiology technician but that doesn't mean she groks a criticality accident. Precise geometry of fuel rods relative to one another is what makes a sustained reaction possible. Too far or too close that the process is dampened.
> 
> XNN


Thanks for the expert analysis.

Question - I seem to recall reading that breeder reactors solve some of the problems of radioactive waste from fission.  Is that correct?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It is a shame that those that blindly support the operators failures have to resort to ad hominem attacks and spout industry propaganda to provide cover for the industries failures. Nuclear power would not be getting such bad press if the operators followed scientific method and their own damn safety protocols. 
> 
> It is a shame that the protesters who were against building the plant there due to the Tsunami threat lost out to the supporters.  
> 
> It is a shame that statists love nuclear power. This may eventually change with newer technologies but currently they cannot be built without taxpayer funding and when the current technology is no longer profitable they will require a tax base to maintain them.  So I nor my descendents will ever live freely due to perpetual tax servitude required by the nuclear power industry.


Industry propaganda?  Is that what you call that?  So how do you account for the facts like the lack of fatalities after Chernobyl?

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Question - I seem to recall reading that breeder reactors solve some of the problems of radioactive waste from fission.  Is that correct?


The point is moot however because a breeder fuel cycle requires the movement of materials back-and-forth between plants and various processing facilities. A big reason why the US industry is reliant on a once-through fuel cycle is because of how politically difficult it is to move radioactive material between geographical locations.

XNN

----------


## Acala

> The point is moot however because a breeder fuel cycle requires the movement of materials back-and-forth between plants and various processing facilities. A big reason why the US industry is reliant on a once-through fuel cycle is because of how politically difficult it is to move radioactive material between geographical locations.
> 
> XNN


The risk being diversion of weapons-grade material?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

update... BTW, can a mod add 'FUKUSHIMA' to the thread title?






> http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/engli...131207_01.html 		Highest radiation levels measured outside reactor
>  		 			 		 			Tokyo Electric Power Company says radiation levels are extremely  high in an area near a ventilation pipe at the crippled Fukushima  Daiichi nuclear power plant.
> 
> *TEPCO found radiation of 25 sieverts an hour on a duct, which connects  reactor buildings and the 120-meter-tall ventilation pip*e.
> 
> The estimated radiation level is the highest ever detected outside  reactor buildings. People exposed to this level of radiation would die  within 20 minutes.
> 
> The exhaust pipe in question was used to release radioactive gases following the outbreak of the accident 2 years ago.
> 
> ...


Radiation dosage chart:  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rt_by_Xkcd.png

----------


## devil21

Coming soon to Japanese babies....radiation induced mutations starting to show up in vegetation.

http://rjk.likes.com/10-shocking-pho..._term=27733057

Yum!

----------


## Zippyjuan

I have had sprouts come out of a tomato- happens if you don't use them sometimes.  They have seeds inside them. The seeds start to grow.   No radiation required.  Solar radiation may help though. 

http://blog.growingwithscience.com/2...inside-tomato/

As for the "giant lettuce" (which looks more like a cabbage), it may be perspective which makes it look larger.  Look in the mirror. Hold an apple or other object in your hand.  Have the object next to your head.  Seems normal size.  Now hold it out at arms length at the mirror and compare its apparent size to your head.  It looks a lot bigger. A wider angle camera lens can make the closer object seem even bigger.  Note besides the giant cabbage the miniature person in the photo as well (person in blue shirt). He looks smaller because he is farther away.  Not because radiation made the girl huge (though the "Collosal Man" was a fun radiation fear movie).

----------


## chudrockz

http://www.occupycorporatism.com/tep...3-melting-now/

----------


## devil21

^^^^^^^^^^
Not saying the report is bs (I can't read the TEPCO link in the article since it's entirely in japanese) but be wary of stuff coming from Hal Turner that is otherwise unverified by more reliable sources.  He's been shown to be a FBI informant/disinfo agent in the past.

----------


## Suzu

That vegetable billed as "lettuce" is in fact a Chinese cabbage, and yes, they do get that big.

----------


## Suzu

> I have had sprouts come out of a tomato- happens if you don't use them sometimes.  They have seeds inside them. The seeds start to grow.   No radiation required.  Solar radiation may help though.


Those are not baby tomato plants coming out of that tomato. Believe me I know what a baby tomato looks like; I've grown them since I was a child (more than 50 years' experience). It looks more like parsley is growing out of the fruit. But how is that possible.....

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

http://www.amazon.com/Pass-the-Veget.../dp/B0057V5890
* 1966* 
(218)      _IMDb_ *8.2*/10                                                   Available on Prime         

 

*3. Pass the Vegetables Please*

                      Gilligan finds radioactive seeds, which he plants--and which produce vegetables with very unusual effects. 



Runtime:26 minutes
Original air date:  September 26, 1966

----------


## Suzu

Latest news on the crisis:

The clip on this page is from yesterday.

http://fukushimaemergencywhatcanwedo...interview.html

Today there will be more, from 7 a.m. on, here:

http://www.gcnlive.com/CMS/index.php/onair (The Power Hour)

If you miss The Power Hour when it's live, you can listen to the podcast:

http://www.gcnlive.com/CMS/index.php...=onDem&show=32

----------


## chudrockz

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/01/n...m-catastrophe/

----------


## Suzu

chudrockz's post confirms the info I posted above. Be advised to pump your body full of brown seaweed in miso soup, and avoid the use of refined sugar. It is your best protection against fallout and will not hurt you even if no fallout comes.

----------


## angelatc

> Coming soon to Japanese babies....radiation induced mutations starting to show up in vegetation.
> 
> http://rjk.likes.com/10-shocking-pho..._term=27733057
> 
> Yum!




Absolutely amazing how fast bull$#@! goes viral on the internet.   Make a note - people will lie to get blog traffic.  I can almost guarantee that the fear-mongering got 100 times more traffic than the sites that debunked it.

http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/si...clear-disaster




> The mutated fruits and vegetables said to originate from Fukushima were found to have actually come from various parts of Japan, and had nothing to do with a nuclear disaster at all. Reports on multiple online sources such as Acidcow and Izismile had first likened the mutated groceries to the nuclear disaster in 2011. This was after a South Korean website supposedly uploaded these photos and claimed so.







> The fruits and vegetables actually came from other parts of Japan, such as Saitama, Kanagawa, Yamagata and Hakuba.





> Some existed even before 2011, while other mutations have been described to be a normal occurrence and are more common than we think.


More at the link.

And here's another link: Scaremongers strike again: “mutant” vegetables wrongly attributed to Fukushima

----------


## Acala

> Absolutely amazing how fast bull$#@! goes viral on the internet.   Make a note - people will lie to get blog traffic.  I can almost guarantee that the fear-mongering got 100 times more traffic than the sites that debunked it.
> 
> http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/si...clear-disaster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So now you are being paid by TEPCO too?  For shame.

----------


## angelatc

> So now you are being paid by TEPCO too?  For shame.


Between TEPCO, Big Pharma, and Monsanto, I will be warm, healthy and fat!

----------


## devil21

> Absolutely amazing how fast bull$#@! goes viral on the internet.   Make a note - people will lie to get blog traffic.  I can almost guarantee that the fear-mongering got 100 times more traffic than the sites that debunked it.
> 
> http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/si...clear-disaster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So radiation exposure doesn't cause mutations and birth defects in children?  Who cares if the pics are or are not directly attributable to Fukushima.

----------


## Carson

_Ruby Red grapefruit

The 1929 Ruby Red patent was associated with real commercial success, which came after the discovery of a red grapefruit growing on a pink variety. Only with the introduction of the Ruby Red did the grapefruit transform into a real agricultural success. The Red grapefruit, starting with the Ruby Red, has even become a symbolic fruit of Texas, where white "inferior" grapefruit were eliminated and only red grapefruit were grown for decades[citation needed]. Using radiation to trigger mutations, new varieties were developed to retain the red tones which typically faded to pink,[15] the Rio Red variety is the current (2007) Texas grapefruit with registered trademarks Rio Star and Ruby-Sweet, also sometimes promoted as "Reddest" and "Texas Choice"._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit


I sort of remember something about radiation experiments that grew large vegetables. I think the soil was treated with enough radiation that it raised the soil temperature.

----------


## angelatc

> Who cares if the pics are or are not directly attributable to Fukushima.


Seriously?  Who cares if blatant propaganda isn't true?  Uh, I do!

----------


## devil21

> Seriously?  Who cares if blatant propaganda isn't true?  Uh, I do!


Way to miss the big picture but ok.  Now that we know a few of the pictures may not be Fukushima related we can rest easy.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Way to miss the big picture but ok.  Now that we know a few of the pictures may not be Fukushima related we can rest easy.


Give that rumours of other radiation problems allegedly caused by Fukushima have also been shown to be untrue I believe we can.

----------


## devil21

> Give that rumours of other radiation problems allegedly caused by Fukushima have also been shown to be untrue I believe we can.


Like the irradiated USS Ronald Reagan crew?  Are you saying this report is fake?  Are you saying there's been no radiation poisoning in Japan? 
http://nypost.com/2013/12/22/70-navy...-japan-rescue/

(You a Brit, Zippy?  Never seen an American spell it "rumour".)

----------


## Zippyjuan

I did live and work in London for a while.

----------


## FindLiberty

> I did live and work in London for a while.


 Colour me surprised…

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Like the irradiated USS Ronald Reagan crew?  Are you saying this report is fake?  Are you saying there's been no radiation poisoning in Japan? 
> http://nypost.com/2013/12/22/70-navy...-japan-rescue/


Please feel free to join us on the USS RR thread.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ight=Fukushima

XNN

----------


## XNavyNuke

> _The Red grapefruit, starting with the Ruby Red, has even become a symbolic fruit of Texas, where white "inferior" grapefruit were eliminated and only red grapefruit were grown for decades[citation needed]. Using radiation to trigger mutations, new varieties were developed to retain the red tones which typically faded to pink,[15] the Rio Red variety is the current (2007) Texas grapefruit with registered trademarks Rio Star and Ruby-Sweet, also sometimes promoted as "Reddest" and "Texas Choice"._
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit


For those who are not Wikipedia-worshiping acolytes, the original article by Dr Hensz can be found starting on page 54 here:
http://www.subplantsci.org/SPSJ/v25%...v25%201971.pdf

As you can see, the process used thermal neutrons produced by the accelerator at Brookhaven National Lab. A process as different from Fukushima as your dental X-rays.

XNN

----------


## osan

> Yum!


This appears to depict a tomato.  One thing is for certain - if it is not photoshopped, it is not a normal tomato as their leaves look nothing like this.  Been growing them for 30+ years.  These leaves look more like something from celery or Italian parsley.  Therefore, _something_ is up here, though not sure what.

That said, we do not know the truth and therefore coming to any conclusions either way is by necessity hazardous business to knowledge.




> Absolutely amazing how fast bull$#@! goes viral on the internet.   Make a note - people will lie to get blog traffic.  I can almost guarantee that the fear-mongering got 100 times more traffic than the sites that debunked it.





> Seriously?  Who cares if blatant propaganda isn't true?  Uh, I do!





> Way to miss the big picture but ok.  Now that we know a few of the pictures may not be Fukushima related we can rest easy.


I would say that the truth here resides somewhere between your opposing positions.  Angela is correct about bull$#@!, but she goes too far in her implications.  Devil is correct about the hazards, generally speaking, but goes too far in _his_ implications.  You each have valid points and you both reach a bit too far.

To say that fear mongering is not happening would be naive at best.  To say there is no significant radiation hazard would be the same.  In the coming few years people will likely start dropping like flies in Japan.  I may be wrong about it, but the reactor presents a clear and present danger to the world at large.

An interesting revelation that comes from this, however, rests in the fact that the words of Rahm Emmanuel are not being heeded: never let a good crisis go to waste.  This is a preeminent crisis, in visage if not substance.  I do wonder why Theye have not seized upon this as a major step toward world government.  Could Theye have been this careless?  Perhaps Theye are sitting on it until it becomes SO bad that the world will cave in from sheer terror from the thought of the invisible killer making it to their doorsteps?

Honestly, this perplexes me a bit.  If Theye are actually bent on global dominion, why would they allow so golden an opportunity to go unseized?  I see the possibilities as follow:


The disaster is not really as bad as we currently think in terms of the threats posed and Theye are not sure they could sustain the credibility of a blown-out-of-proportion story for long enough to get anything useful done. (unlikely)Theye are not nearly as smart as we give credit and simply have failed to recognize the opportunity for what it is.Theye are keeping it on the back burner for a later date - after all, it is not as if the hazard is going to be resolved any time soon by Japan alone.Theye feel the issue carries with it potential threats to Theire authority - therefore, focusing on it could backfire on them and turn people against "government"Theye feel they do not need the assistance of another disaster - the war on terror is enough.Theye actually mean us well and would never do such a thing, preferring to go about this honestly and do the best we can.  (right)

Points 3 and 4 are the only ones that make strong sense to me, 4 being the stronger.  

To point 3 I can only imagine Theye would hold off perhaps until something far worse happens, like the spent fuel pool blowing itself to kingdom come, so that the fear would be SO utter and complete that they would be able to suspend governance as we know it and nary a soul would squeeze out the merest peep in protest.

Point 4 could be the real culprit.  Were the MSM to focus on this it would likely come to general light an examination of the political circumstances that lead to the eternally brilliant decision to place a nuclear facility of questionable design quality on the eastern coast of a well known earthquake- and tsunami-prone area.  This could put GE in the spotlight, as well as government.  In the end, it was government that allowed this to occur - they _alone_ hold the gun-backed power to grant or deny permission to engage in such projects and it is clear Theye gave the green light.  It would seem the possibilities to expose corruption and the general invalidity of government might be too great in this case.  Therefore, sweep it under the rug... perhaps until the disaster blooms to such monumentality that we will no longer be able to safely ignore it.  Then point 3 comes into play - the danger is so high and immediate that we can no longer afford to allow people to be free.  Case closed and good night Irene.

Seriously folks, this is something over which some thought is worthy.  A fly farts in the middleast and the MSM are on it like stink on rice and keep at it often for weeks.  Miley Cyrus shoves her ass atop the nose of someone in her audience (how does a thing like that get an audience in the first place, one must wonder) and it is endlessly paraded before the glazed- and cow-eyed American meaner to his endless focus, and yet here we have a real disaster afoot and not word one.  Point 4 stands out here as the likeliest reason for the silence.  Anyone have an alternate?

----------


## kahless

Looks like the readings have been confirmed.

Health officials respond to beach radiation scare
http://www.hmbreview.com/news/health...tml?mode=story



> County health officials first learned of the radiation levels last week, and they sent their own inspector on Dec. 28 to Pacifica with a Geiger counter. Using a different unit, the county inspector measured the beach to have a radiation level of about 100 micro-REM per hour, or about five times the normal amount.

----------


## Suzu

My response to osan's question: They know it's bad and have no idea what to do except keep a lid on it, because (a) most people don't know the whole story and therefore are not very concerned anyway, and (b) if it does get really bad, they've got safe places to go and that's all they care about.

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> A Japan-US commission is set to meet in Washington, DC on Monday   to exchange opinions on Fukushima emergency response and   regulatory issues.   
> 
>   TEPCOs president said he has _high hopes_ that Japan will   _benefit from US to experience and expertise at Fukushima   Daiichi."_ 
> _
>   "We will work together to tackle many challenges toward   decommissioning,"_ Hirose said in an interview with Japanese   public broadcaster NHK.   
> 
>   On Friday, US Energy Secretary Moniz visited the crippled   Fukushima plant to inspect preparations to remove fuel rods from   a storage pool at Unit 4.   
> 
>   Escorted by Hirose, the US official also visited other facilities   at the plant, including storage tanks for contaminated water and   radioactive water treatment units.   
> ...


*Fukushima apocalypse: Years of duct tape fixes could result in millions of deaths*

                                                                                                                      Published time: August 17, 2013 13:15                                                            
                                Edited time: August 18, 2013 13:41                                                    
http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocaly...l-removal-598/

----------


## donnay



----------


## Zippyjuan

> *Fukushima apocalypse: Years of ‘duct tape fixes’ could result in ‘millions of deaths’*
> 
>                                                                                                                       Published time: August 17, 2013 13:15                                                            
>                                 Edited time: August 18, 2013 13:41                                                    
> http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocaly...l-removal-598/


Russian media article discussing possible worst case scenarios- not actual status.  



> Reactor 4 *contains* 10 times more Cesium-137 than Chernobyl did.


Contains more- but hasn't released more than Chernobyl. And naturally Russia would be the only ones who can fix it. 





> 'Unfortunately there is no one better qualified to deal with this than the Russians,

----------


## devil21

I don't like how threads like this devolve.  I posted the veggie thing mostly to remind of what radiation does to living things.  It doesn't get media coverage and osan is right that it's curious why.  We've all seen the vids of the EQ, the tsunamis, Fuku blowing it's dome multiple times, and it gets fuzzy after that.  I honestly didn't care if the veggies really were Fuku examples.  The real freaks will be pics of Japanese kids instead of some lettuce in a store.  Imagery captures the mind more than words.  Do I just bump and say "hey, some japanese kids are gonna be $#@!ed up soon?"  

Sue me for using propaganda to remind of present and ostensibly real dangers.

----------


## osan

> My response to osan's question: They know it's bad and have no idea what to do except keep a lid on it, because (a) most people don't know the whole story and therefore are not very concerned anyway, and (b) if it does get really bad, they've got safe places to go and that's all they care about.


This is certainly plausible, but somehow not terribly satisfying largely due to the departure from normal character that it suggests.

Theye "always" know what to do, even when what they know is wrong.  Theye always act positively where opportunity for further cultivation of authority presents itself.

To slink away from this got my attention.

----------


## osan

> *Fukushima apocalypse: Years of ‘duct tape fixes’ could result in ‘millions of deaths’*
> 
>                                                                                                                       Published time: August 17, 2013 13:15                                                            
>                                 Edited time: August 18, 2013 13:41                                                    
> http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocaly...l-removal-598/


So, um... is the spent-fuel operation under weigh?

I've not seen anything about it.  One would think this front page news.  Huh...

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> This is certainly plausible, but somehow not terribly satisfying largely due to the departure from normal character that it suggests.
> 
> Theye "always" know what to do, even when what they know is wrong.  Theye always act positively where opportunity for further cultivation of authority presents itself.
> 
> To slink away from this got my attention.


What I'm wondering is, where did this idea come from that the government is hiding something about Fukushima?  Maybe it really isn't a big deal.  

Think about it.  Most of these conspiracy theories involve the government covering up something that they did.  Now, for some reason, we're freaking out about the government's non-reaction to something that they couldn't possibly have caused.  Why is it that we're suddenly so suspicious of this?  Is it that you just assumed radiation was a big deal and that releasing it into the atmosphere would cause untold damage to nature?  

Remember the Gulf Oil Spill?  Everyone said that was a disaster that could have earth-shattering consequences for the global ecosystem, and yet nobody thought that was a conspiracy simply because the government seemed to be paying attention.  Now they're not, and we automatically assume it's because they're covering something up?  This was not part of their plan.  They could not have planned a tsunami followed by a nuclear disaster, so why are we suddenly so suspicious of them on the Fukushima incident?  

Maybe it's not a big deal and they're not concerned because of that.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> So, um... is the spent-fuel operation under weigh?
> 
> I've not seen anything about it.  One would think this front page news.  Huh...


http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311dis...AJ201401080059




> .   Work to remove nuclear fuel from a damaged reactor building at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant was proceeding smoothly as efforts resumed Jan. 6 after the conclusion of the New Year's holidays.


XNN

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> So, um... is the spent-fuel operation under weigh?
> 
> I've not seen anything about it.  One would think this front page news.  Huh...


http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/engli...s/nuclear.html
*Foreign experts to advise Fukushima dismantling*
                                            A Japanese research institute on nuclear decommissioning will ask 3  non-Japanese experts for advice on scrapping reactors at the Fukushima  Daiichi nuclear plant. It's been nearly 3 years since the March 2011  earthquake and tsunami caused nuclear meltdowns.

The International Research Institute for Nuclear Decommissioning was set  up last year to support the government in dismantling the crippled  reactors.

It is comprised of Tokyo Electric Power Company, which is the operator  of the Fukushima Daiichi, and other utilities, as well as makers of  nuclear plant equipment.

The organization has been soliciting technological assistance in Japan and abroad.

The 3 foreign advisers include Luis Echavarri, the Director-General of  the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's Nuclear  Energy Agency.

Echavarri says a clear plan should be drawn up and that the decommissioning process should be transparent.


NHK WORLD English 

The OECD official proposed a multi-year budget for the work, given the  amount of time required for technological development. He says a  single-year budgeting framework would be extremely difficult.

*Under the present plan, removing nuclear fuel debris from the reactors will start as early as in the first half of 2020.*

How that will be done is yet to be decided as not much is known about  the exact state of the damaged fuel that will require sophisticated  technologies to remove.
Jan. 12, 2014 - Updated 15:33 UTC

*Severe cold grips Japan*

 
 			A typical winter weather pattern and a powerful cold air mass have driven down temperatures across Japan.

Areas on the northern and central Sea of Japan coast had intermittent snow on Monday morning.

Temperatures dropped below zero degrees Celsius from northern to western  Japan. Early on Monday, the temperatures in Nakatonbetsu and Esashi  towns in northern Hokkaido were around minus 30 degrees.

Temperatures are likely to remain low across the country.

Up to about 40 centimeters of snow fell in the northernmost prefecture  of Hokkaido and the Hokuriku region on the Sea of Japan coast during a  24-hour period.

By Tuesday morning, up to about 40 centimeters more of snow is expected in northern and central regions facing the Sea of Japan.

 			Jan. 13, 2014 - Updated 01:16 UTC

----------


## osan

> What I'm wondering is, where did this idea come from that the government is hiding something about Fukushima?  Maybe it really isn't a big deal.


This is certainly plausible, but if it is so then I would suggest that the fact that such conspiracies are so widely suspected would seem to indicate the tremendous depths to which the general mistrust of government runs.




> Think about it.  Most of these conspiracy theories involve the government covering up something that they did.


The reason is because governments have been caught so many times doing just that.  Ours, theirs... in this they are all mostly the same, Iceland sticking out as the sore-thumb exception in recent memory.  The list of such activities is nearly endless.




> Now, for some reason, we're freaking out about the government's non-reaction to something that they couldn't possibly have caused.


Not sure what you mean here.  Firstly, government DID cause this, albeit indirectly, through inept or corrupt decision making regarding the granting of permission to put a nuclear power plant on the coast of a tsunami-prone area.  On top of that, the reactor design was of cut-rate quality, which is a characteristic that is not terribly attractive in terms of safety when horrific poisons are being bred therein.  It would not do even with a LFTR, much less a uranium reactor.




> Why is it that we're suddenly so suspicious of this?


Because the TEPCO and the Japanese government have been caught in lies and the bending of the truth?  Call me crazy, but when something like this happens, absolute, complete, and unvarnished truth is the only thing that stands the least chance of not being taken as indicative of conspiracy to conceal.  People have been put over the wood so many times, they are becoming a wee bit suspicious.

I would turn the question back to you:  Why is it you are NOT suspicious, given what is known?

One should also note that a fair number of credible sources - people in the industry and physicists, for example - are all pretty well saying the same thing: this is a disaster of epic proportions.  Granted, they could all be wrong - we have seen this in the past - flat earth theory, burning witches at the stake, and so forth - but until they are proven wrong we should at least be taking what they say into some account.

Also: what leads you to believe that the release of many tons of tremendously poisonous substances into the environment is not a "big deal"?  Some cite the fact that several thousands of nuclear weapons have been lit off and the world has not come to an end.  How does one define "end"?  Cancer used to be nearly unknown to the world.  Now it is everywhere and there are those in the field who say the day is soon upon us where it will not become a quesiton of whether you ever get cancer, but how many times.  Just because we did not all evaporate at once in the wakes of the first nuclear tests it does not follow that those events are not now wreaking havoc with us.  I do not think it requires the least rocket surgery to figure out that these things are not at all good for us.




> Is it that you just assumed radiation was a big deal and that releasing it into the atmosphere would cause untold damage to nature?


Are you assuming that it is not?  The effects of ionizing radiation are well enough known such that no rational person in possession of the most basic knowledge on the matter would want to be exposed.  

EDIT:  _I'd written that Pu is very toxic - that based on readings.  This may actually not be quite so true, lending credibility to your position.  I got to thinking about it last night and went seeking.  Of all places, I ended up at wikipedia (oops) and the article says "not so", citing one Albert Stevens as having been injected with plutonium and surviving into old age.  I must therefore retract what I wrote and get back to skepticism on the matter.  No doubt it is toxic, it is a heavy metal after all, but to what degree... I am not longer confident.  My bad and am sorry if I have served to spread bull$#@!, which is never my intention.  It seems Pu was not the right candidate for the example.  90Sr, OTOH, appears to be a pretty good one._ 




> Remember the Gulf Oil Spill?  Everyone said that was a disaster that could have earth-shattering consequences for the global ecosystem, and yet nobody thought that was a conspiracy simply because the government seemed to be paying attention.  Now they're not, and we automatically assume it's because they're covering something up?  This was not part of their plan.  They could not have planned a tsunami followed by a nuclear disaster, so why are we suddenly so suspicious of them on the Fukushima incident?



I am not sure how you have come to infer that the Japanese government is believed to have cause the tsunami.  




> Maybe it's not a big deal and they're not concerned because of that.


Possibly so, but doubtful.  Would you salt your dinner with 90strontium?

----------


## devil21

Fukushima on fire?

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

That's a $#@!ty vid, but yes, others saying Fukushima is on fire... again.

Timeline Photos
Live  now @ 11 AM ET/8 AM PT, Post Ignorance with Kevin Blanch...tune in  NOW!!  Reactor 4 is on fire again, radiation levels are highest they've  ever been.  http://UCY.TV/KevinDBlanch




> Fukushima on fire?


 

Japan  Times: “Radiation has spiked to all-time highs” in ocean off Fukushima  plant — Jiji: “Record-high radiation levels have been observed” Tepco  says — Officials: “Cause of seawater spike is unknown”




> http://www.hiroshimasyndrome.com/fuk...t-updates.html*Fukushima Accident Updates*___The internet's top source of objective Fukushima News. No "spins"...just summaries of the news reports in the Japanese Press. Often called the  Fukushima nuclear disaster, the Fukushima accident is a major topic around the world. (Updates are posted twice weekly; Monday and Thursday)__NEW E-BOOK - "Kimin: Japan's Forgotten People" - the untold story of Japan's 300,000 tsunami refugees, ignored by the world's news media. Now available at Amazon/Kindle. http://www.amazon.com/Kimin-Forgotten-Leslie-E-Corrice-ebook/dp/B00GMPBSTO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384733832&sr=8-1&keywords=Kimin%3A+Japan%27s+Forgotten+People  and Barnes & Noble (Nook)_ http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/Kimin--Japan-s-Forgotten-People?keyword=Kimin%3A+Japan%27s+Forgotten+People  &store=book _Fukushima: The First Five Days..._ a book taken from the staff records at Fukushima Daiichi the first five days of the crisis. _Fukushima : The First Five Days_ is available at E-book stores, including Amazon, Barnes&Noble and Koble.  _Click here for more..._*May 19, 2014*As of May 19th,  880 fuel bundles have been safely transferred out of the unit #4  storage pool. This marks a 57.4% completion point with the project. http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/decommision/index-e.htmlA  Health Ministry group wants a lifelong analysis of all Fukushima  workers. The panel says this will show if any of the 19,000 people who  have worker at F. Daiichi have impaired health due to radiation  exposure. The panel also says those who have received exposures above  government limits should have blood tests with every checkup. Panel  chief Toshiteru Okubo says the results could serve as a guideline for  the health impact on local resident exposures. The group says they will  submit a full report later this month and hope it will be approved so  the testing program can begin later this year. NHK World; _Panel urges lifelong survey for Fukushima workers_; May 19, 2014.The  manga (comics) story about radiation-induced nosebleeds continues in  the news. Comics are popular reading fare for adults in Japan, providing  a break from reality much the same as western soap operas. The recent  issue of a manga depicting repeated nosebleeds for its main character  being exposed to ambient radiation by a one-time visit to the Fukushima  has caused a furor. Areas outside of the exclusion zone in Fukushima are  on par with – and in some cases lower than – background radiation  levels in the world where healthy life continues. Objections from  Fukushima officials have dominated the news reports. The Fukushima  Prefecture’s government filed a formal complaint which says (in part),  “The feelings of the Fukushima people were totally ignored and deeply  hurt.” Now, Prime Minister Abe is involved. He said there is not a  single case of someone's health being damaged due to Fukushima exposure  and, "There is no confirmation that someone's health has been directly  affected by radioactive substances. There is a need for the state to  make all-out efforts to deal with baseless rumors." http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/nosebleeds-food-and-fear-how-a-manga-became-center-of-a-debate-on-fukushima?utm_campaign=jt_newsletter&utm_medium=em  ail&utm_source=jt_newsletter_2014-05-18_AM -- http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20140518p2g00m0fp005000c.html The final episode of the comic series was issued today, May 19th.  The publisher announced that the series will be suspended and a special  story will highlight the many criticisms of the manga. The publisher  said the uproar caused by the story is not the reason for the  suspension. Rather, it says the cessation of the comic had been planned  from the start. The last issue includes the views of 13 “experts” from  both the positive and negative camps. Chief editor Hiroshi Murayama  said, "We take criticisms and the severe dressing-down seriously, and we  will review the depictions in the series." http://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2014051900483PM  Abe says that results of medical surveys with Fukushima residents show  no differences compared to other prefectures. During a visit to a  Fukushima Medical University on Saturday, he said, "I would like to  disseminate this accurate information in a manner that helps people  understand easily.  [The central government] bears responsibility for  ensuring the health of Fukushima Prefecture citizens and children." He  also stressed the Tokyo will do its utmost to wipe out unfounded rumors.  http://jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2014051700279The  Fukushima government says all local fruits and vegetables were below  government limits for fiscal 2013. It is the first such result since  they began testing agricultural and marine products for radioactive  Cesium in fiscal 2011. All samples of milk, meat and eggs were below the  national standard for the second year in a row. In addition, the Health  Ministry has reduced the number of items required for pre-marketplace  testing from 98 down to 65. An official said, "We are seeing a lot of  food in which radioactive cesium is not detected. We determined that a  review was necessary to facilitate effective testing." However, the  prefecture’s list of 461 items being tested has remained unchanged.  Regardless, Fukushima growers are dissatisfied with the health Ministry  because "The central government's perception is very different from that  in the field. The effects of unfounded rumors are still strongly  rooted." An official with the Shin Fukushima chapter of the Japan  Agricultural Cooperatives (JA) group said, "It is inconceivable to say  we have a choice of not conducting the testing just because radioactive  substances have not been detected." On the issue of how long will the  testing of foodstuffs continue, a Fukushima agricultural union official  said, "Sometimes I wonder just how long we have to continue [conducting  the monitoring]. We need to carry out the testing at least until the  stage in which trouble at the nuclear plant, including the contaminated  water issue, does not occur at all." http://www.fukushimaminponews.com/news.html?id=346This  past week’s compensation pay-outs to Fukushima evacuees has raised the  total, to date, to more than $38 billion spread uniformly among the  85,000 mandated evacuees. http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/comp/images/jisseki-e.pdfNumerous  lawsuits against Tokyo and Tepco are pending. The common thread is the  pain of a “loss of homeland” which money cannot assuage. The first suit  was filed in December of 2012, and at least seventeen have been  submitted since. All interviewed plaintiffs say the money they receive  is not enough. One said, "There is so much sadness and suffering that  only someone who has been driven from their homeland can understand.The  current compensation system, in which the perpetrators of the damage  assess the victims' needs, fails in trying to understand the suffering.  That's why I decided to seek a court decision." Tsuguo Hirota, an  attorney for some who filed suit, defines the loss of one's homeland as  "the destruction of irreplaceable assets, such as nature and  communities, as well as unique culture and traditions that people have  created and built." He continued that this is a type of damage that has  never been seen in pollution and lung disease lawsuits. http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20140519p2a00m0na010000c.html (Comment  - The news reports continually post the $1,000 per month each evacuee  gets for mental anguish, but universally fail to mention the other  generous pay-outs each evacuee receives.)
> *To  keep this page free for everyone, please consider a donation. Everyone  tips restaurant service, why not tip your Fukushima service? (click on the donation button in the left-hand column).*





> *Why Fukushima’s “spent” fuel rods will continue to catch fire*  							4:26 pm _in Uncategorized by Kirk Murphy_
> This  cutaway diagram shows the central reactor vessel and thick concrete  containment in a typical boiling water reactor of the same era as  Fukushima Daiichi 1 (image: www.world-nuclear-news.org)
> 
> *Update:* Japan’s chief cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano, is holding a news conference, just started. (10:15pm ET).
>  Yesterday the spent fuel rod pool at Fukushima Daiichi reactor 4  caught fire.  About that time instruments at the plant showed an  exponential increase in radiation levels.  After the fire was quenched,  radiation levels fell.  In the hour before I sat down to write this,  there was an explosion at the same spent fuel rod pool.  As I write,  another fire is burning there.  NHK reports the radiation level – 300 to  400 milliSieverts – is so high that firefighters cannot approach the  area.
>  NHK reports that by Monday March 14 the temperature in the spent fuel  rod pool was 84 degrees C: nearly double the usual temperature.  NHK  reports that there aren’t temperature readings for today: technical  failure.  We do know the pool temperature increased by roughly twenty  degrees C per day after loss of power on Friday.  And we know that water  boils at 100 degrees C.
>  The spent fuel rod pool at reactor 4 is one of seven pools  for spent fuel rods at Fukushima Daichii.  These pools are designed to  store the intensively radioactive fuel rods that were already used in  nuclear reactors.   These “used” fuel rods still contain uranium (or in  the case of fuel rods from reactor 3, they contain both uranium and  plutonium from the MOX fuel used in that reactor).  In addition to the  uranium and plutonium, the rods also contain other radioactive  elements.  These radioactive elements are created in the rods by the  intense radiation around the rods when they are in the reactor core  (before they are moved to the spent fuel pools).
>  Six of the spent fuel rod pools  are (or were) located at the top of  six reactor buildings.  One “common pool” is at ground level in a  separate building.  Each “reactor top” pool holds up to 3450 fuel rod  assemblies.  The common pool holds up to 6291 fuel rod assemblies.  [The  common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly  destroyed by the tsunami.]  Each assembly holds sixty-three  fuel rods.  This means the Fukushima Daiichi plant may contain over  600,000 spent fuel rods.  The fuel rods once stored atop reactor 3 may  no longer be there: one of the several explosions at the Fukushima  reactors may have damaged that pool.
>  Now that we have partial meltdown in the reactor vessels – the part  of the reactor where nuclear reactions are supposed to happen – in at  least three of the Daiichi palnt’s six reactors, why bother with  swimming pools for fuel rods?  Simple.  Even after they are no longer  usable to drive nuclear fission in the reactor vessels, the “spent” fuel  rods are still highly radioactive.  Part of that radioactive energy is  emitted as heat.  That’s no surprise: heat from radioactivity is the how  the reactor core vessels generate the heat that drives the nuclear  plant’s turbines to generate electricity.   The fuel rods don’t know  whether they are in the core or in the pools: they keep emitting heat  and radioactivity until the radioactive material decays into  non-radioactive elements.  That process can take years, which is why  spent fuel rods are still dangerous years after they leave the reactor  core.
> ...

----------


## devil21

Hey HOLLYWOOD.  Chill out on the doom bro.  Just say it really sucks and move on.  Can't post any propaganda.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Fukushima on fire?


Nice time lapse of fog rolling in off the Pacific and high pressure sodium street lights. Crappy resolution.
XNN

----------


## pcosmar

> Nice time lapse of fog rolling in off the Pacific and high pressure sodium street lights. Crappy resolution.
> XNN


Well perhaps.
I can't find anything about a fire..
But they are pumping radioactive water directly into the ocean.

http://english.cri.cn/11354/2014/05/21/189s827739.htm



> The move to dump the huge amount of toxic water was unavoidable, TEPCO said, due to the massive volumes of contaminated water building up and failing to be decontaminated and maintained inside the complex.


So please try to spin that into harmless fun.

----------


## devil21

> Nice time lapse of fog rolling in off the Pacific and high pressure sodium street lights. Crappy resolution.
> XNN


Certainly could be.  The lack of information on Fuku's status leads to stuff like this.  I wish someone would just come out and give an honest update on what's actually happening there.

----------


## pcosmar

> Certainly could be.  The lack of information on Fuku's status leads to stuff like this.  I wish someone would just come out and give an honest update on what's actually happening there.


I did.
http://english.cri.cn/11354/2014/05/21/189s827739.htm

The attempts at containment (failure) are abandoned.

They are now pumping radioactive water directly into the ocean.

----------


## Carson



----------


## Carson

And they fly.


*The biological impacts of ingested radioactive materials on the pale grass blue butterfly*

A massive amount of radioactive materials has been released into the environment by the Fukushima Dai-ichi Nuclear Power Plant accident, but its biological impacts have rarely been examined. Here, we have quantitatively evaluated the relationship between the dose of ingested radioactive cesium and mortality and abnormality rates using the pale grass blue butterfly, Zizeeria maha. When larvae from Okinawa, which is likely the least polluted locality in Japan, were fed leaves collected from polluted localities, mortality and abnormality rates increased sharply at low doses in response to the ingested cesium dose. This dose-response relationship was best fitted by power function models, which indicated that the half lethal and abnormal doses were 1.9 and 0.76 Bq per larva, corresponding to 54,000 and 22,000 Bq per kilogram body weight, respectively. Both the retention of radioactive cesium in a pupa relative to the ingested dose throughout the larval stage and the accumulation of radioactive cesium in a pupa relative to the activity concentration in a diet were highest at the lowest level of cesium ingested. We conclude that the risk of ingesting a polluted diet is realistic, at least for this butterfly, and likely for certain other organisms living in the polluted area.


Snip...

http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/1405...srep04946.html



Link to Fark comments on this article;

http://www.fark.com/comments/8273566...I-said-nothing

----------


## XNavyNuke

> But they are pumping radioactive water directly into the ocean.
> 
> So please try to spin that into harmless fun.


I'm not really sure why I would spin anything. As I replyed to you in this thread http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-nuclear-plant #7, the Japanese government was setting things up politically for an ocean dump.

XNN

----------


## Carson

> Nice time lapse of fog rolling in off the Pacific and high pressure sodium street lights. Crappy resolution.
> XNN



I heard a story about a machine shop near here that machined radioactive material of some sort. The story was that when you went in, in the morning, after it had been closed up, that the radioactive contamination caused the cutting oil contamination to form a layer of fog above the floor.

----------


## Carson

*"Japanese nuclear plant may only have a few hours...."* 

This is kind of an old thread now.


Some may think that well it's been this long, and the Fukushima are still there...

If I remember right this thread wasn't around for very long before the buildings there started blowing up.


P.S. Just went and looked. First post was made on 03-11-2011 08:29 PM #1 by *Fox McCloud*


*JoshLowry's* 03-12-2011 01:05 AM  Post#96 is a video of an explosion.

Josh's video is no longer available. I suspect it went something like this;

*reactor 4 explosion* 





...but who's counting.

----------


## Tinnuhana

When larvae from Okinawa, which is likely the least polluted locality in Japan 

Where are all those  spent rods, etc. going? Hope they're not going here^^

----------


## Carson

Story from Fark.

*Japan will build a giant ice wall to contain Fukushima radiation. Can the ice holes stop the spread this time?*

http://gizmodo.com/japan-to-start-bu...ium=socialflow


Fark comments;

http://www.fark.com/comments/8274423...read-this-time

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> Certainly could be.  The lack of information on Fuku's status leads to stuff like this.  I wish someone would just come out and give an honest update on what's actually happening there.


I know it's conjecture, but the sudden lack of information provided by the Japanese government or whistleblowers, coincides with the passage of the 'Japan State Secrecy Act' that just magically popped-up and approved by the Obedient .gov workers in government. I'd say they have been guided well by their U.S. masters, we know far too well how  the abuse goes withholding critical information under state secrets privilege by government.




*Japan whistleblowers face crackdown under proposed state secrets law | World news | theguardian.com*

----------


## devil21

At least they're thinking outside of the box.

Freeze the ground under and around Fukushima to trap radioactivity
http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/26/57...beginning-june

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

https://www.netc.com/

 
*
Nuclear Emergency Tracking Center*

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

*Two moderate earthquakes hit near Japan's Fukushima*

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/36625088.cms




> TOKYO:  Two moderate earthquakes struck off Japan's eastern coast near  Fukushima in the early hours on Monday, the US Geological Survey said,  predicting a low chance of any major damage being caused. 
> 
>  The  epicentre of the first quake, with a magnitude measuring 5.7, was  located some 91 kilometres (56 miles) off the coast of Honshu, Japan's  largest and most populated island, at a depth of 22 kilometres shortly  after 3am local time (2330 IST Sunday). 
> 
>  A second, 5.6-magnitude quake struck two hours later slightly closer to shore at a depth of 39 kilometres. 
> 
>  Cities nearest to the epicentre included Iwaki, Kitaibaraki, Namie and Hitachi, USGS said. 
> 
>  The same coastline was struck by a devastating quake and subsequent  tsunami in 2011 that killed more than 18,000 people and sparked a  meltdown at the Fukushima power plant  the world's worst nuclear  accident in a generation. 
> ...

----------


## Zippyjuan

> The epicentre of the first quake, with a magnitude measuring 5.7, was located some 91 kilometres (56 miles) off the coast of Honshu, Japan's largest and most populated island, at a depth of *22 kilometres* shortly after 3am local time (2330 IST Sunday).


That is very deep- 14 miles underground so not much risk from that.  Second one was 24 miles down. Plus being 56 miles from shore.

----------


## acptulsa

> That is very deep- 14 miles underground so not much risk from that.  Second one was 24 miles down. Plus being 56 miles from shore.


You're lying.

14 miles under the surface of the ocean is not the same thing as 14 miles 'underground'.

The last Zippy was smart enough to know that.  I thought you were too.

----------


## XNavyNuke

NYT: Cores set to get a "CT scan"

Assessing Fukushima Damage Without Eyes on the Inside




> As altered by the Los Alamos scientists for use at Fukushima, the process requires a much longer exposure — it could take weeks. But the result will be a three-dimensional image; concrete, steel and water will all be distinguishable from uranium, plutonium and other very heavy materials.
> 
> “You don’t need a quick image, you just need a good image, and you have plenty of time,” said Stanton D. Sloane, the chief executive of Decision Sciences. Testing will begin later this year, officials say, and final images will be produced next year.
> 
> “I would expect to be able to distinguish fairly readily between what would be described as random results from the meltdown, versus engineered structural components,” Mr. Sloane said.


Looks like we will get know whether we have a full melt, partial melt, or massive fuel element failure due to pumping saltwater over hot zircaloy.

XNN

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

> NYT: Cores set to get a "CT scan"
> 
> Assessing Fukushima Damage Without Eyes on the Inside
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like we will get know whether we have a full melt, partial melt, or massive fuel element failure due to pumping saltwater over hot zircaloy.
> 
> XNN


Well, I hope NUKE industry learns from this tragedy and incorporate changes to design and builds of nuke plants.


http://www.jma.go.jp/en/quake/3/2014...95-160514.html



 

Japan Meteorological Agency | Earthquake Information

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> At least they're thinking outside of the box.
> 
> Freeze the ground under and around Fukushima to trap radioactivity
> http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/26/57...beginning-june


Another article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gi...-plant-n151431

There is also a segment on Al J that should re-run the next day or two or from their site.  It added the rather alarming comment that a at least partial release into the ocean was probably inevitable.  They are working on huge filters to try and mostly decontaminate the water, but the main worry is strontium 80 (I think) and if it happens it's going to cause problems for the Pacific, mainly the north pacific.

-t

----------


## Suzu

Some more recent updates here: http://www.nuclearhotseat.com/2008/

----------


## XNavyNuke

> Some more recent updates here: http://www.nuclearhotseat.com/2008/


The recent update being the Reagan battlegroup sailors are still working their lawsuit.....

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ight=Fukushima

...and we can make fun of children playing in the ocean where the Cesium levels in the North Pacific are the equivalent of a pimple on a horses ass when added the the global fallout loading that's already there.

XNN

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

Latest techno...




also




> *UPDATE 1-Fukushima court rules against nuclear operator in suicide suit*
> 
> Aug 26 (Reuters) - A court has ruled that Fukushima nuclear operator Tokyo Electric was responsible for a woman's suicide following the March 2011 disaster and must pay compensation, in a landmark ruling that could set a precedent for other claims against the utility.
> The civil suit by Mikio Watanabe claimed that Tokyo Electric Power Co Inc (Tepco) was to blame for the July 2011 death of his wife, Hamako, 58, who doused herself in kerosene and set herself on fire after falling into depression.

----------


## XNavyNuke

Over 2 Trillion Becquerels of Radioactive Waste in Pacific in Only 10 Months  




> .  (MONTREAL) - At least 2 trillion becquerels’ worth of radioactive material flowed from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant into the Pacific Ocean between August 2013 and May 2014, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has admitted.


This is about fifty curies. The graphic associated with the article is misleading. The text of the article uses trillions of becquerels and the graphic uses billions of curies. The journalist makes no effort draw a relationship between the two units of measures for the lay reader. Clearly it is meant to imply that the magnitude of the discharge is unprecedented.

XNN

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

I forgot to post.  they OK'd the re-activation of 2 reactors a few weeks ago.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Over 2 Trillion Becquerels of Radioactive Waste in Pacific in Only 10 Months  
> 
> 
> 
> This is about fifty curies. The graphic associated with the article is misleading. The text of the article uses trillions of becquerels and the graphic uses billions of curies. The journalist makes no effort draw a relationship between the two units of measures for the lay reader. Clearly it is meant to imply that the magnitude of the discharge is unprecedented.
> 
> XNN


Will my children grow gills if I let them swim in that?

-t

----------


## HOLLYWOOD

latest...                                        
The Japan Times 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.VDyH3uG4eXw



> *Tritium up tenfold in Fukushima groundwater after Typhoon Phanfone*
> Oct 12, 2014 
> Article history 
> 
> 
>    The radioactive water woes at the stricken Fukushima No. 1  nuclear plant got worse over the weekend after the tritium concentration  in a groundwater sample surged more than tenfold this month.
>  A spokesman for Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Saturday that heavy  rain caused by Typhoon Phanfone probably affected the groundwater after  the storm whipped through Japan last week.
>  Some 150,000 becquerels of tritium per liter were measured in a  groundwater sample taken Thursday from a well east of the No. 2 reactor.  The figure is a record for the well and over 10 times the level  measured the previous week.
>  In addition, materials that emit beta rays, such as strontium-90,  which causes bone cancer, also shattered records with a reading of 1.2  million becquerels, the utility said of the sample.
> ...

----------


## devil21

Yep, fuel has melted through the vessel.  No bueno.




I love seafood but have stopped eating it almost entirely but especially anything from the Pacific.

----------


## Zippyjuan

No longer in the core does not necessarily mean it is not still contained within the reactor or the building. http://enenews.com/images-show-fuel-...y-photos-video




> AFP, Mar 20, 2015:  Nuclear experts said Friday that the test showed the nuclear fuel rods had melted beyond recognition… “*But there has been no evidence that the fuel has melted through the nuclear containment buildings and reached the outer environment*,” [Hiroshi Miyano, a visiting professor at Hosei University] told AFP. However, the test… did not look at the bottom part of the reactor, with some experts suggesting it was not possible to tell if the fuel was still contained… “Eventually, TEPCO is aiming to scoop out the melted fuel little by little, rather than burying it in concrete“… Miyano said… [The process] reveals exactly where the fuel is — or isn’t — lying…  “*We presume that despite the meltdown, the fuel is still in the containment vessel,”* said Tomohisa Ito, a spokesman for the International Research Institute for Nuclear Decommissioning [which includes both TEPCO and Hitachi-GE as members]… “But we still need to directly check the situation one day using remote-controlled robots,” he said

----------


## Acala

> Yep, fuel has melted through the vessel.  No bueno.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love seafood but have stopped eating it almost entirely but especially anything from the Pacific.


The damage to your health from reducing your intake of anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids almost certainly outweighs any tiny benefit you might obtain from avoiding the miniscule radioactive material in Pacific seafood.

----------


## devil21

> The damage to your health from reducing your intake of anti-inflammatory omega-3 fatty acids almost certainly outweighs any tiny benefit you might obtain from avoiding the miniscule radioactive material in Pacific seafood.


Fortunately, my SO is a vegan so I've learned alternative sources for omegas from her.  I do eat Atlantic tuna occasionally for natural omegas.  But yeah, definitely not something one should stop eating entirely without doing homework first.

----------


## Acala

> Fortunately, my SO is a vegan so I've learned alternative sources for omegas from her.  I do eat Atlantic tuna occasionally for natural omegas.  But yeah, definitely not something one should stop eating entirely without doing homework first.


Good!  Does she eat algae?  I think that's pretty much the only vegan source of EPA and DHA.

----------


## devil21

> Good!  Does she eat algae?  I think that's pretty much the only vegan source of EPA and DHA.


Mainly flaxseed and chia seed derivatives.

----------


## Acala

> Mainly flaxseed and chia seed derivatives.


Have her read this blog post:
http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/

----------


## Acala

> Fortunately, my SO is a vegan so I've learned alternative sources for omegas from her.  I do eat Atlantic tuna occasionally for natural omegas.  But yeah, definitely not something one should stop eating entirely without doing homework first.


For your vegan SO, I highly recommend wakame seaweed.  It is high in EPA (the omega-3 that is hardest to get for vegans), is high in iodine (which is a really important nutrient and coincidentally helps protect the thyroid from radiation damage), and is super-convenient.  Buy a bag of dried wakame and toss a spoonful into any kind of soup or cooked meal.  You can also do what I do, which is rehydrate a spoonful (it takes only a couple minutes) and add it to daily salads.

----------


## XNavyNuke

The Pacific Standard, pillar of conservative reporting, questions effects of Fukashima evacuation on elderly nursing home residents.

http://www.psmag.com/health-and-beha...than-radiation




> Nuclear radiation is the kind of thing that strikes fear in the hearts of just about everybody. So strong is this fear, however, that it may lead us to overlook more serious hazards associated with nuclear accidents. For example, a team of Japanese researchers report that evacuation following the Fukushima nuclear accident may have been much worse for Japanese citizen's health than nuclear radiation.


I'm confused. I thought the old and infirm were supposed to die off anyway so that the young and healthy have more government benefits.

XNN

----------


## Suzu



----------


## Lucille

https://www.lewrockwell.com/politica...ff-west-coast/

Officials Admit Radioactive Fish Off U.S. West Coast Have "Disturbing Fingerprint Of Fukushima"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-1...rint-fukushima




> Of course, the idea that radiation was reaching California and the West Coast, and that fish were being contaminated by Fukushima radiation from thousands of miles across the Pacific was considered  yep  fake news at the time. The alarmist cries of conspiracy theorists and hypochondriacs were just non-sense, jibberish, delusions and paranoia. Typical hyperbolic non-sense from people caught up in an echo chamber.
> 
> But now, it is an admitted fact that Fukushima radiation is impacting U.S. shores.


Fukushima radiation reaches United States shores for first time
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/...8491481288714/




> "Not to downplay it, but the levels we are seeing are quite low," Buesseler told UPI.
> 
> He said it wouldn't stop him from eating seafood or swimming in the Pacific Ocean.




Go ahead and eat it, they say.

----------


## jllundqu

Slow kill = engaged

----------


## Zippyjuan

From the UPI link:




> It's a minuscule amount --* less than one-thousandth the standard for drinking water or a dental X-ray.* But it's notable considering the amount was detected 5,000 miles from Japan five years after the disaster.





> *"Even if the levels were twice as high, you could still swim in the ocean for six hours every day for a year and receive a dose more than a thousand times less than a single dental X-ray,*" Buesseler told the Statesman Journal at the time.

----------


## Lucille

> From the UPI link:


Please go ahead and eat as much as you possibly can.




> Of course, they claim that it is safe because the levels are low. USA Today emphasized the ridiculously minuscule dose of radiation that say, a swimmer would get at the beach  while admitted for the first time that those warning about the spreading radiation were, in fact, correct. exposure:
> [...]
> So, as far as nuclear waste goes, cesium-134 is not as bad as strontium-90, but that doesnt mean there are no harmful effects, and it doesnt mean that strontium isotopes arent affecting the Pacific and West Coast as well  because it has been detected there, and more can be expected to be found:
> [...]
> The biomagnification of the food chain  as low levels of radiation build up in lower life forms and in turn become consumed (and often concentrated) by higher life forms  will increase human exposure in ways that simple measures for exposure time simply do not account for. Its effects will be masked, but not impotent.
> 
> What happens to man and the environment when he is exposed to low levels of radiation over the decades and many years that make up his life? What about its impact on DNA through epigenetics? science now knows that gene expression is changed when it is exposed to dangerous materials in the body.
> 
> When blue fin tuna that migrate from Japan to the West Coast were found to contain radioactive particles, again, via Ken Buesseler, the mainstream media downplayed the risks, while alternative media sources sounded the alarm  something that shouldnt be happening is:
> ...


So the paranoid, lunatic, nutjob conspiracy theorists were right again!

----------


## DamianTV

> Please go ahead and eat as much as you possibly can.
> 
> ...
> 
> So the paranoid, lunatic, nutjob conspiracy theorists were right again!




Perfectly safe for human consumption!

----------


## PaulConventionWV

This is ridiculous.  If you have some stats to contradict the ones that say it's safe, then please present them.  Anyone can find pictures of deformed fish.  If there is evidence that the radiation is higher than they say, then please present it. 

And by the way, please stop acting like everything the media ignores is automatically a conspiracy.  There are many things the media ignores that actually aren't a problem.  Just because the media doesn't tell you, doesn't mean they're keeping it a secret.  Almost no one is talking about this except the most extreme news sources.  There's no evidence of any cover-up because nobody's pushing this information that it needs to be covered up.  The media isn't talking about how the moon is really made of cheese... must be a cover-up.

----------


## Seraphim

Ok let's forget stats for a moment as a picture paints a 1000 words (and a whole bunch of later incoming stats). 

This is a picture of radio active seawater taken by the US NAVY/U.S. State Department. 

There are more of these you can easily find if you search the web.






> This is ridiculous.  If you have some stats to contradict the ones that say it's safe, then please present them.  Anyone can find pictures of deformed fish.  If there is evidence that the radiation is higher than they say, then please present it. 
> 
> And by the way, please stop acting like everything the media ignores is automatically a conspiracy.  There are many things the media ignores that actually aren't a problem.  Just because the media doesn't tell you, doesn't mean they're keeping it a secret.  Almost no one is talking about this except the most extreme news sources.  There's no evidence of any cover-up because nobody's pushing this information that it needs to be covered up.  The media isn't talking about how the moon is really made of cheese... must be a cover-up.

----------


## Seraphim

^^^^^ That is the radioactive blueprint from about 2 years ago. It has grown. Earthquakes and another tsunami have occurred since the meltdown - the area is constantly leaking radioactive waste. Do you realize the nuclear cores are sinking into the ground and sink further each day leaking nuclear waste into the water table and ocean?

TEPCO has admitted they lost some of the nuclear cores containing the radioactive waste. 

DO NOT BUY PACIFIC FISH FROM THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE.

If you do, I highly recommend you get a Geiger counter (as numerous pacific Asians have)...MANY fish are contaminated. Not all are. But in that nuclear waste hotzone...YA u bet anything in those waters is getting irradiated.

----------


## Seraphim

This thread should be renamed. 

This Fukushima plant isn't "a few hours away..." from anything.

This is an ongoing nuclear waste leak that drips drips drips and flows into the water table and Pacific Ocean on a second by second basis.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> ^^^^^ That is the radioactive blueprint from about 2 years ago. It has grown. Earthquakes and another tsunami have occurred since the meltdown - the area is constantly leaking radioactive waste. Do you realize the nuclear cores are sinking into the ground and sink further each day leaking nuclear waste into the water table and ocean?
> 
> TEPCO has admitted they lost some of the nuclear cores containing the radioactive waste. 
> 
> DO NOT BUY PACIFIC FISH FROM THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE.
> 
> If you do, I highly recommend you get a Geiger counter (as numerous pacific Asians have)...MANY fish are contaminated. Not all are. But in that nuclear waste hotzone...YA u bet anything in those waters is getting irradiated.


How many radioactive fish have been caught and identified?  How contaminated are they? Evidence please.  From Wood's Hole which is very concerned about the health of the oceans:  http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=127297




> *Has Fukushima been responsible for the deaths of marine animals in the Pacific?*
> 
> To date, there have been no reliable links made between radiation in the Pacific and mass die-offs of marine mammals, birds, fish, or invertebrates. Some of these die-offs have been attributed to viruses, warming water, and other changes to the marine environment that need to be addressed.* If there were effects from radioactive contamination, we would expect to see the largest effects off Japan, not the West Coast of North America, and this has not been seen*.





> *Is radiation exposure from the ocean and beach a concern?*
> 
> I stood on the deck of a ship l2 miles from the Fukushima reactors in June 2011 and was about one-half mile away as recently as October 2015 and the radiation detectors I was carrying showed little or no increase above background levels. Even the samples I collected (water, sediment, plants, and animals) from these locations are safe to handle without any precautions. In fact, our biggest problem is blocking interference from background radiation in our samples so we can isolate the trace levels of cesium and other radionuclides that we know came from Fukushima.
> 
> *On the West Coast of North America, radiation from the water, sediment, and biota is even less of a problem because of the distance from Japan and the dilution that occurs as the contaminants cross the Pacific.* The greatest concern is for those who work on the site of the reactors because leaks from storage tanks could release water with high concentrations of contaminants.





> *Is it safe to eat seafood from the Pacific?*
> 
> Except for the vicinity of the reactors,* seafood and other products taken from the Pacific should be safe for human consumption*. Radiation levels in seafood should continue to be monitored, of course,* but radiation in the ocean will very quickly become diluted and is not of concern* by the strict standards used in Japan beyond the region closest to Fukushima. The same is true of radiation carried by winds around the globe. However, crops and other vegetation near the reactor site (including grass that cows eat to produce milk) that receive fallout from the atmosphere build up radioactivity and can remain contaminated even if washed. When these foods are consumed, a person receives much of this dose internally, often a more severe pathway to receive radiation than by external exposure.


Lots more info at the link.




> Earthquakes and* another tsunami have occurred since the meltdown*


That "tsunami" was a wave about one foot high.




> *If you do, I highly recommend you get a Geiger counter* (as numerous pacific Asians have)...MANY fish are contaminated


Would it find anything notable?  




> *I have a Geiger counter. Can I use it to detect radiation from Fukushima?*
> 
> There are two basic types of radiation detectors—those that measure only the number of times radiation interacts with the instrument, and those that measure the energy level (in electron volts) of the particles or waves detected by the instrument. The Geiger-Mueller tube (Geiger counter) is perhaps the most widely known radiation detector and falls into the first category.
> 
> Geiger counters can measure beta particles and gamma rays (the detector window will block most alpha particles), but cannot distinguish between the two. These interactions, and the decay events that trigger them, are registered as counts or audible clicks. In general, a Geiger counter will always produce some clicks, often 20 to 40 per minute, as a result of natural sources of radioactivity around us at all times, including rocks, soil, buildings and cosmic particles. These background count rates vary widely depending upon local geology, altitude (higher at higher elevations), and even construction materials and building design (the accumulation of radon in basements is just one example).* Detecting contamination from Japan above this background with a Geiger counter is only possible near the reactors and storage tanks at Fukushima, or in some of the more contaminated regions in Japan,* as they are not particularly sensitive instruments.
> 
> *In addition, Geiger counters cannot measure the energy level of the radiation being emitted, a very important factor in determining whether the source of radiation is manmade or natural. For example, the high count rates detected by a Geiger counter along a beach near San Francisco were not caused by cesium from Fukushima as originally reported, but rather caused by naturally occurring thorium-bearing minerals that are common and often elevated in some beach sands.*
> 
> - See more at: http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=1272....ZnFl96R4.dpuf

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## Danke

What da Fukashima's going on?

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## PaulConventionWV

> Ok let's forget stats for a moment as a picture paints a 1000 words (and a whole bunch of later incoming stats). 
> 
> This is a picture of radio active seawater taken by the US NAVY/U.S. State Department. 
> 
> There are more of these you can easily find if you search the web.


Yeah, you know what that quote means, right?  A picture is worth a thousand words just means pictures make people gossip.  That's what you're doing, stirring up gossip with your stupid picture graphics.  How about actual evidence?

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## Zippyjuan

> Perfectly safe for human consumption!


The salmon picture is from a fish caught in Alaska- north of where the waters from Japan drift.  Would not have been exposed to Fukushima radiation. They don't say where the shark is from but that it is from "somewhere in the Pacific Ocean". 

Pacific Ocean currents:

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## Zippyjuan

http://phys.org/news/2016-07-pacific...fukushima.html




> *Pacific Ocean radiation back near normal after Fukushima: study*
> July 4, 2016
> 
> Radiation levels across the Pacific Ocean are rapidly returning to normal five years after a meltdown at the Fukushima nuclear plant spewed gases and liquids into the sea, a study showed Monday.
> 
> Japan shut down dozens of reactors after a magnitude 9.0 earthquake-generated tsunami on March 11, 2011 triggered one of the largest ever dumps of nuclear material into the world's oceans.
> 
> In the days following the quake and explosions at Fukushima, seawater meant to cool the nuclear reactors instead carried radioactive elements back into the Pacific, with currents dispersing it widely.
> 
> ...

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## angelatc

I try to stay out of these crap because it pains me to see how gullible so many of my fellow libertarians are.  And it especially pains me to see so many people determined to spread misinformation.  I already know 95% of you do not care if it's true as long as it supports your wordview, so you can skip the rest of this post.

For the other 5%, my husband is also concerned about the radiation in seafood.  I showed him these pictures, and he got pissed.  He says activists have been using these pictures to represent a myriad of environmental concerns long before Fukishima, and that the picture of the fish with bad lips has a parasite.   The picture of the guy holding a fish came from something to do with an oil refinery.





So either radiation has traveled back in time, or the people using these sources are not reliable.

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## angelatc

Do your research, they screech.




http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/tipping-point




> The documentary's climax shows how Professor Schindler's research findings, and the determination of Fort Chipewyan residents, led to change.  In December 2010, a special scientific review by the high-level federal panel declared environmental monitoring standards in the oil sands to be seriously flawed.

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## Superfluous Man

I'm gonna save some of these fish pictures to show people and tell them they're from that BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico a few years back just to mess with them.

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## Seraphim

> Yeah, you know what that quote means, right?  A picture is worth a thousand words just means pictures make people gossip.  That's what you're doing, stirring up gossip with your stupid picture graphics.  How about actual evidence?


Right, ok. A massive radiation zone around Fukushima (that is growing) is just gossip and will have no impact on the Ocean and it's inhabitants.

Got it. 

You realize we're talking about NUCLEAR RADIATION right? 

All I did was post a picture from the US NAVY. Draw your own conclusions.

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## Zippyjuan

> Right, ok. A massive radiation zone around Fukushima (*that is growing*) is just gossip and will have no impact on the Ocean and it's inhabitants.
> 
> Got it. 
> 
> You realize we're talking about NUCLEAR RADIATION right? 
> 
> All I did was post a picture from the US NAVY. Draw your own conclusions.


I was trying to find the original source of the image to see what it was actually showing but am not having any luck.  Do you have a link by chance?  I found another similar image being passed off as radiation and when I tracked it down what it was actually showing was likely wave height and paths from the earthquake tsunami. Thanks for looking!

As for your claim it is still growing- see my article about how radiation in the Pacific Ocean is basically back down to its normal  background radiation levels.

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## XNavyNuke

> All I did was post a picture from the US NAVY. Draw your own conclusions.


Bzzzt! Not a USN map, but thanks for playing. 

The news media picked up the graphic from a consulting firm. Bright, sparkly colors seem to be as useful click bait seconded only by boobs in a halter top.

http://www.asrltd.com/japan/plume.php

XNN

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## XNavyNuke

> I'm gonna save some of these fish pictures to show people and tell them they're from that BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico a few years back just to mess with them.


That's the way the game is played.
XNN

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## PaulConventionWV

> Right, ok. A massive radiation zone around Fukushima (that is growing) is just gossip and will have no impact on the Ocean and it's inhabitants.
> 
> Got it.


Wow, it just makes you look so stupid when you say something completely reasonable in an obviously sarcastic way.  YES, I DO think your "massive radiation zone" is just gossip until you provide evidence.  Last time I checked, that was a completely reasonable thing to expect from someone making claims like you.  I think you're well aware of the fact that graphics can LOOK scary without actually BEING scary, so excuse me if I'm not that impressed with the fact that it came from the US Navy (a government entity) and don't buy into it without some kind of factual basis.

And maybe it would help your claim to legitimacy if you stopped using pictures of contaminated fish from BEFORE the event, sunshine.




> You realize we're talking about NUCLEAR RADIATION right? 
> 
> All I did was post a picture from the US NAVY. Draw your own conclusions.


Oooh, scary.  You're really giving the MSM a run for its money on the scare tactics.  And of course the US Navy, I assume, is with you on this crusade against the MSM, right?  Give me a $#@!ing break.

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## donnay

> “Despite concerns, there is *no US government agency monitoring the spread of low levels of radiation* from Fukushima along the West Coast and around the Hawaiian Islands—even though levels are expected to rise over coming years.”


http://www.ourradioactiveocean.org/

*Radiation from Fukushima nuclear plant detected on west coast*

By The Associated Press
Follow on Twitter
on December 08, 2016 at 3:55 PM

SALEM, Ore. (AP) -- Researchers say seawater samples taken from Tillamook Bay and Gold Beach indicate radiation from Japan's Fukushima nuclear disaster, but at extremely low levels not harmful to humans or the environment.

Citing the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, *the Statesman Journal* newspaper reports the samples were taken last winter and later analyzed.

Massive amounts of contaminated water were released from the crippled nuclear plant following a 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami in March 2011.

Woods Hole chemical oceanographer Ken Buesseler runs a crowdfunded, citizen-science seawater sampling project that has tracked the radiation plume as it makes its way across the Pacific Ocean.

___

Information from: Statesman Journal, http://www.statesmanjournal.com

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## Zippyjuan

Posted in thread already.  Amounts one one thousandth of "safe" levels. Your article notes:




> but at extremely low levels not harmful to humans or the environment.

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## chudrockz

Bump. About to get much worse?

http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/20...fukushima.html

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## XNavyNuke

> Bump. About to get much worse?
> 
> http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/20...fukushima.html


Getting higher radiation readings is a good thing. TEPCO has been using remotely operated vehicles in an attempt to find and isolate the fuel mass which melted through the bottom of the reactor vessel. The images that they took along with the readings would indicate they are getting closer. If the mass in the picture is the fuel it means it didn't escape the containment building and the company can build a plan to recover it.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.WJZyK-tOKrV

XNN

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## Zippyjuan

> Bump. About to get much worse?
> 
> http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/20...fukushima.html


Levels aren't higher.  They are just getting deeper into the building in trying to check things out.

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## enhanced_deficit

> Perfectly safe for human consumption!



That is horrific.

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## osan

More happy news at better than 8.8 sieverts/minute.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/fukushi...inable/5574837


*Fukushima Out of Control: Radiation Levels Significantly Higher than “Unimaginable”**Still Getting Worse After Six Years of Meltdowns*By William Boardman
Global Research, February 14, 2017
Reader Supported News 12 February 2017

Region: Asia
Theme: Environment, Oil and Energy, Science and Medicine



*69.7K* 
 *354* *27*  

 *70.3K*


_After a week of limited coverage of “unimaginable levels” of radiation inside the remains of collapsed Unit 2 at Fukushima (see below), Nuclear-News.net reported February 11 that radiation levels are actually significantly higher than “unimaginable.”_
Continuous, intense radiation, at 530 sieverts an hour (4 sieverts is a lethal level), was widely reported in early February 2017 – as if this were a new phenomenon. It’s not. Three reactors at Fukushima melted down during the earthquake-tsunami disaster on March 3, 2011, and the meltdowns never stopped. Radiation levels have been out of control ever since. As Fairewinds Energy Education noted in an email February 10:
Although this robotic measurement just occurred, this high radiation reading was anticipated and has existed inside the damaged Unit 2 atomic reactor since the disaster began nearly 6 years ago…. As Fairewinds has said for 6 years, there are no easy solutions because groundwater is in direct contact with the nuclear corium (melted fuel) at Fukushima Daiichi.What’s new (and not very new, at that) is the official acknowledgement of the highest radiation levels yet measured there, by a factor of seven (the previously measured high was 73 sieverts an hour in 2012). The highest radiation level measured at Chernobyl was 300 sieverts an hour. What this all means, as anyone paying attention well knows, is that the triple-meltdown Fukushima disaster is still out of control.
IAEA fact-finding team examines devastation at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant in May 2011. (photo: IAEA/Greg Webb)
“Sievert” is one of the many terms of mystification used to prevent most people from fully understanding radiation. A “sievert” is roughly equivalent to a “gray,” as each represents a “joule” per kilogram (not to be confused, for example, with “Curie” or Bequerel,” or with “rem,” “rad,” or “roentgen”). In the International System of Units (SI), a “joule” is the “unit of work or energy, equal to the work done by a force of one newton when its point of application moves one meter in the direction of action of the force, equivalent to one 3600th of a watt-hour.” Got that? The jargon doesn’t much matter as far as public safety is concerned. All ionizing radiation is life-threatening. The more you’re exposed, the more you’re threatened. As Physics Stack Exchange illustrates the issue:
The dose [of radiation] that kills a tumor is deliberately aimed at that tumor. If, instead of using a collimated beam, you put a person in a wide beam for radio “therapy”, you would be treating their entire body as a tumor and kill them.Radiation levels at Fukushima are comparable to a nuclear explosion that doesn’t end. That’s one reason that TEPCO, the Tokyo Electric Power Co. that owns Fukushima, keeps trying to reassure the world that little or no radiation escapes from Fukushima. This is not true, radiation in large, mostly unmeasured or undocumented amounts pours into the Pacific Ocean all the time, without pause. One reason this release is out of control is because no one apparently knows just where the three melted reactor cores have gone. TEPCO says it thinks the melted cores have burned through the reactors’ inner containment vessels, but are still within the outer containment walls. They keep looking as best they can.
On February 3, 2017, the Guardian reported the high radiation levels discovered by a remote camera sent into the reactor on a telescopic arm. Reader Supported News carried the story from EcoWatch on February 5. Essentially the same story was reported on February 6 by Smithsonian.com, on February 7 by ZeroHedge.com, and on February 8, Fox News reported that “radiation levels at Japan’s crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant are now at ‘unimaginable’ levels.” There have apparently been no such reports on CBS, NBC, CNN, or MSNBC. On February 9, ABC ran an AP story about pulling a robot out of Unit 2 because of “high radiation,” without specifying a level and adding: “TEPCO officials reassured that despite the dangerously high figures, radiation is not leaking outside of the reactor.” (PJMedia.comcalls the Fox story “fake news,” relies on ad hominem argument, trusts TEPCO on keeping track of the irradiated ocean flow, and accepts US EPA standards for “safe” drinking water – without actually discrediting the story.)
On February 12, Pakistan Defence ran the AP story of February 9, but included the new level of radiation at 650 sieverts that fried a robot’s camera, adding:
The high levels of radiation may seem alarming, but there’s good news: it’s contained, and there are no reports of new leaks from the plant. That means that the radiation shouldn’t affect nearby townships. Higher levels of radiation could also mean the robot is getting closer to the precise source of radioactivity to properly remove the melted fuel.All this coverage relates only to Unit 2’s melted reactor core. There is no reliable news of the condition of the melted reactor cores in two other units. Last November, in a half-hour talk reviewing the Fukushima crisis, Arnie Gunderson of Fairewinds Energy Education discussed the three missing reactor cores and what he suspected was the likelihood that they had not been contained within the reactor.
The ground water flowing into, through, and out of the reactor is contaminated by its passage and is having some impact on the Pacific Ocean. The US, like other governments, is ignoring whatever is happening, allowing it to happen as if it doesn’t matter and never will. In Carmel, California, local residents are finding that tide pools, once vibrant with life, are now dead. They blame Fukushima.
Whatever is actually going on at Fukushima is not good, and has horrifying possibilities. It is little comfort to have the perpetrator of the catastrophe, TEPCO, in charge of fixing it, especially when the Japanese government is more an enabler of cover-up and denial than any kind of seeker of truth or protector of its people. It took private researchers five years to figure out that Fukushima’s fallout of Cesium-137 on Tokyo took a more dangerous, glassy form that wasn’t cleaned up effectively.
The US and most of the rest of the world have chosen not to take Fukushima more seriously than a multi-car Interstate pile-up. The policy is one more roll of the dice, saving money now and gambling the future. But now we have Rick Perry heading up the US Department of Energy and Scott Pruitt slated to take over the Environmental Protection Agency – so we can expect big changes, right?
Actually there has been one big change already at the Energy Dept., which uses more contractorsthan any other US agency. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) found that the Energy Dept. failed to protect whistleblowers who raised legitimate nuclear safety and other concerns. In response, the Energy Dept. prepared a new rule protecting whistleblowers from contractor retaliation. That rule was blocked from going into effect by President Trump’s regulatory freeze on January 20.
In a sense, Fukushima is perhaps a metaphor for the current American moment. The electoral earthquake and tsunami of 11/9 has produced a political meltdown of unknown and expanding proportions, that continue unchecked, causing still unmeasured destruction and human suffering far into a dark and dangerous future.
_William M. Boardman has over 40 years experience in theatre, radio, TV, print journalism, and non-fiction, including 20 years in the Vermont judiciary. He has received honors from Writers Guild of America, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Vermont Life magazine, and an Emmy Award nomination from the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences._

----------


## shakey1

There's definitely an argument here for phasing out nuclear power generation. Nearly all the plants in the US have reached their life expectancy, yet U.S. regulators are considering the extended operations of these facilities. Continual cost overruns typically incurred in their construction suggest much the same for rebuilding existing plants. And still, there are no real answers to the question of what to do with the spent fuel.




http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/...l-catastrophe/

----------


## XNavyNuke

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/n...gle/index.html




> Six cows were released into a paddy field to graze. It's a step to revive the farm work that was widely seen in Iitate village.
> 
> One farmer is using his cows as an experiment that could bring hope to others.
> 
> After the animals eat these fields for 2 months, they'll have their blood tested to check if they have been influenced in any way by radioactive material.
> 
> "It's finally starting. For those who are worried or not confident about resuming cattle raising, I hope what I'm doing will encourage them," says the farmer, Takeshi Yamada.


Doesn't make for breathless news, but things slowly returning to normal.

XNN

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## XNavyNuke

Three American skiers travel to Fukushima to hit the powder. Almost a decade into a "only a few hours left". Just like we are coming up on a year into "only two weeks to flatten the curve." 

Skiing, Snowboarding, and Surfing In the Wake of Fukushima

Fear!

XNN

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## RJB

> Three American skiers travel to Fukushima to hit the powder. Almost a decade into a "only a few hours left". Just like we are coming up on a year into "only two weeks to flatten the curve." 
> 
> Skiing, Snowboarding, and Surfing In the Wake of Fukushima
> 
> Fear!
> 
> XNN


I remember back then trying to decide who to believe, you or the world is ending crowd.  I am glad that it didn't end.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> I remember back then trying to decide who to believe, you or the world is ending crowd.  I am glad that it didn't end.


In ten years, some epidemiology PhD candidate will defend their thesis on COVID deaths. Then we will start to know the depths in which the citizenry have been played.

Let's take a look at how many died in fear of the world ending from Fukushima. Both events have been elder abuse writ large driven largely by pundits soundbiting experts.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23925101/




> Even currently, more than 150,000 evacuees in Fukushima Prefecture are forced to leave their home and to move throughout Japan. Because of the limited space of temporary housing and the weakening of personal ties in local communities, many families need to move and have separate lives. As a consequence, Fukushima has a serious shortage of caregivers for the elderly. There have been more than 1,300 disaster-related deaths due to shock and stress after long-distance drifts from town to town. *Most of the victims were the elderly, who collapsed, caught pneumonia, suffered stroke and heart attack. Concerns about the safety of low-dose radiation exposure deprived the elderly of important contact with playing outside with their grandchildren in Fukushima.*


Bold emphasis mine. These would be categorized "Fukushima-related deaths" by our expert class. 1300 of 150000 is about 1%, mainly elderly. With our current US deaths we are at 300k of 320M. Stress kills the old and those with weakened/compromised immune systems. Perpetuation of fear is just another way to destroy families.

XNN

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## devil21

> I remember back then trying to decide who to believe, you or the world is ending crowd.  I am glad that it didn't end.


TEPCO has been storing the contaminated cooling water in tanks and currently plans to dump it all into the ocean in a couple years and start over.  They'll have to do that pretty much forever.  That, or slowly turn Japan into a tank farm.

----------


## XNavyNuke

> TEPCO has been storing the contaminated cooling water in tanks and currently plans to dump it all into the ocean in a couple years and start over.  They'll have to do that pretty much forever.  That, or slowly turn Japan into a tank farm.


That is one way to spin the discharge. Another would be that TEPCO has installed the worlds largest water treatment system for radionuclide removal and will be discharging water that meets the regulatory standard for concentration levels.

The Subcommittee on Handling of the ALPS Treated Water Report - Feb. 2020

XNN

----------

