# Lifestyles & Discussion > Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies >  Bitcoin Back Up To $1000

## anaconda

Sell price is $1000 here on New Years Day 2017 at around 1:20 PM Pacific time.

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## anaconda

bump $1014 now.

----------


## anaconda

bump for no one cares that BTC is back over $1000

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> bump for no one cares that BTC is back over $1000


The only folks who care are the half dozen or so of us that have been trying to educate the rest of the forum about why bitcoin was important over the last few years because we new this day was coming again yet the rest of the flock paid no mind. However, we've reached a pricing level where the average mainstream financial person would consider this a respectable token to add to their portfolio, 3 figures not so much.

----------


## anaconda

> The only folks who care are the half dozen or so of us that have been trying to educate the rest of the forum about why bitcoin was important over the last few years because we new this day was coming again yet the rest of the flock paid no mind. However, we've reached a pricing level where the average mainstream financial person would consider this a respectable token to add to their portfolio, 3 figures not so much.


Thank you for the thoughtful comment. Interesting about the "4 figure" psychology that you posit.

----------


## kpitcher

I think Bitcoin will get more attention once it starts pushing into new highs.  Until then it's like a dotcom stock, it flew high and just hasn't recovered yet.

Now that it's passed 1k for a few days it's getting closer.

----------


## anaconda

Seems kinda' mini-volatile around $1000 right now. Pin-balling from $990-something to around $1020-something...

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

The truth of the matter is if the supposed "liberty" oriented people used bitcoin we'd have enough of a network of users to make living outside goobermint money possible for some, or mostly for many. However, I get the feeling that most of the liberty movement is merely composed of natural contrarians, and this movement is just a convenient niche to always be an oppressed group and provide infinite source material to complain and whine about. 

However, here we are with a couple percent of the users participating, more users will whine about the fed than do anything about it.

Gold will never replace $#@!, it's easy to confiscate and manipulate. Bitcoin may still fail but that would be because of the ballless anarcho-capitalists, libertarians, etc... don't put their money where their mouth is.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Seems kinda' mini-volatile around $1000 right now. Pin-balling from $990-something to around $1020-something...


It's in a clear uptrend, though.  I honestly don't see a situation in which it doesn't make new highs now.  There's no resistance from above anymore, and this coupled with an established trend will inevitably push it higher.  How high cannot be known for certain.

----------


## anaconda

> It's in a clear uptrend, though.  I honestly don't see a situation in which it doesn't make new highs now.  There's no resistance from above anymore, and this coupled with an established trend will inevitably push it higher.  How high cannot be known for certain.


Simple money inflation should push it up as well.

----------


## fr33

As a non bitcoin owner, I don't see why pointing out such an increase is a good thing. Do you want it to be an investment or a valid currency? I still kick myself for not buying when it was worth $7 when I found out about it, but that's only because I could have got rich by dumping it. The long term value is in using it as a currency to bypass local laws and interest & exchange rates.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> As a non bitcoin owner, I don't see why pointing out such an increase is a good thing. Do you want it to be an investment or a valid currency? I still kick myself for not buying when it was worth $7 when I found out about it, but that's only because I could have got rich by dumping it. The long term value is in using it as a currency to bypass local laws and interest & exchange rates.


In order for it to be a valid currency it needs a high enough total "value" to facilitate the economic activity. Bitcoin is "worth" like 15 Billion dollars in USD total. That's simply to small to facilitate any real levels of economic activity, therefore it must go up in value if it becomes widely used. There are a maximum of 21 million bitcoin ever, so the only path is higher value if actual use increased dramatically.

----------


## dannno

> As a non bitcoin owner, I don't see why pointing out such an increase is a good thing. Do you want it to be an investment or a valid currency? I still kick myself for not buying when it was worth $7 when I found out about it, but that's only because I could have got rich by dumping it. The long term value is in using it as a currency to bypass local laws and interest & exchange rates.


Widespread use also requires mining resources, and there are two ways to attract miners. One way is to use the currency and pay the fees to the miners for each transaction. The other way is to increase the value of bitcoin by investing in it so that the rewards miners get are worth more.

Early adopters, whether they are using the bitcoin or investing in it because they believe it holds future value, help to support the bitcoin infrastructure and as it is more successful they will be rewarded by the market for doing so.

If I had bought a few hundred or more bitcoin back in the day, I would be trying to hold onto the vast majority but I would probably have taken some profits a few times by now. I was about to buy some back when it was $13, but I am glad I got in at $70, then bought in some more when it dipped back down into the 300s.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> As a non bitcoin owner, I don't see why pointing out such an increase is a good thing. Do you want it to be an investment or a valid currency? I still kick myself for not buying when it was worth $7 when I found out about it, but that's only because I could have got rich by dumping it. The long term value is in using it as a currency to bypass local laws and interest & exchange rates.


There are some very valid uses of it that are very practical for people like me.  For instance, I can't send money back to the US from China except through a Chinese friend.  If I were able to connect a Chinese bank account to a bitcoin exchange, however, I could independently transfer money all I wanted at very low costs, no hassle, and no reliance on other people.  These qualities alone make it viable, but nobody really knows what its true worth should be.  The market appears to still be making up its mind, but it's clear that it has practical utility.

----------


## oyarde

> bump for no one cares that BTC is back over $1000


I am holding out for 1 million .

----------


## oyarde

I would have been using it all along if I could use it anywhere I shop  , so basically it is just an investment .

----------


## dannno

> but nobody really knows what its true  worth should be.  The market appears to still be making up its mind, but  it's clear that it has practical utility.


Currencies including the US dollar change value constantly. So does gold and silver.

Bitcoin has been more volatile, but on the whole it keeps going up (especially if you're looking at more longterm moving averages), and there is no problem with using currencies that are increasing in value because when you spend it, it is more likely to be worth more than when you got it.

----------


## Okie RP fan

Dang… I sold mine when it jumped back up to $500ish months ago. 
Patience is a virtue. I'll learn next time.

----------


## presence

> The long term value is in using it as a currency to bypass local laws and interest & exchange rates.


The long term value in bitcoin is very simple, it is 2 fold deflationary: 
*
DEATH AND TAXES*

DEATH: every time a bitcoin holder dies and fails to leave keys, the value of bitcoin relative to dollar increases

TAXES: every day fiat money supply rises; the value of bitcoin relative to fiat increases; inflation tax

if you believe people will keep dying and governments will keep taxing 
then you should keep your savings in crypto,
 simple as that

----------


## presence



----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> I would have been using it all along if I could use it anywhere I shop  , so basically it is just an investment .


I've used it online only at newegg.com, 1 purchase on openbazaar, 1 at overstock, and got some things on fasttech. Yeah, it sucks this constant battle over increasing the blocksize and segwit. Really, only physical stores will jump on once a fast solution is integrated like the lightning network or whatnot.

In my opinion the next "HUGE" pop will happen after transaction capacity increase and functional lightning network integration. If those things happen, I believe a 1000.00/ bitcoin will be the same as we view a 100/bitcoin today, along with the I should have dumped my lifesavings in when it was cheap stories. 

But no absolute guarantee that will happen. I think I'll sell if it becomes clear no capacity increase will be happening.

----------


## anaconda

$1065.00 right now.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

1092 on finnex. Spitting distance to Gold.

----------


## wizardwatson

> The truth of the matter is if the supposed "liberty" oriented people used bitcoin we'd have enough of a network of users to make living outside goobermint money possible for some, or mostly for many. However, I get the feeling that most of the liberty movement is merely composed of natural contrarians, and this movement is just a convenient niche to always be an oppressed group and provide infinite source material to complain and whine about. 
> 
> However, here we are with a couple percent of the users participating, more users will whine about the fed than do anything about it.
> 
> Gold will never replace $#@!, it's easy to confiscate and manipulate. Bitcoin may still fail but that would be because of the ballless anarcho-capitalists, libertarians, etc... don't put their money where their mouth is.


My reply to you is more for others to read, since I know we've discussed this before.

I agree with your sentiment.  And it isn't just bitcoin/currency, though I also agree that currency organization would be probably the most central thing we could organize around given the supposed "end the fed" focus of this movement.  

It seems to me people don't want to take the first steps towards any realistic achievable goal.  Using a currency, even as an experiment....Holding themselves accountable by participating in a grassroots activity like attending a meetup, or even adding themselves to a mailing list, etc. etc..  There are exceptions of course but after years of looking at the base of this thing people call a "movement" it seems there's a lot of despair and moaning and groaning, which tends to make the words they say pretty accurate but also, strategically speaking, leads those same people to rationalize their inaction by leaning on a future interpreted through the lens of despair.

"Here's what's wrong with everything.....but there's no point.  We are doomed!"

People who see and can communicate the truth are rare.
People like that who also still have hope and motivation are even rarer.
People like that who also have a mind for strategy and action are even rarer.

The big dream of some kind of "ambiogenesis" happening in this movement would be for the second group of people to follow the third.  But for every person we got trying to rub two sticks together to get that fire going, we probably got 1000 just wanting the world to burn down.

Bitcoin would be a great place to start.  Hell, even if people understood the public ledger aspect of it and how it antithetical to corrupt money practices.  Price instability could be fixed easily because you could simply peg a subset of the volume to gold if you wished.  But again, problem isn't even knowledge, it's people's motivation and mindset about "what they are doing" in general.  We don't have an education problem, we have an attitude problem.

----------


## anaconda

$1099.00

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

1137.... Top that!

----------


## anaconda

> 1137.... Top that!


Coinbase is "offline." Hmmmm...interesting...

----------


## anaconda

Now when I click on Coinbase I get "Rate limit exceeded" whatever that means. Just those words on a white screen.

----------


## anaconda

Coinbase down. 

https://status.coinbase.com/

----------


## FSP-Rebel

Looks fine now.

----------


## anaconda

$1167.00 = sell price on coinbase.

----------


## anaconda

I see on Wiki that the previous high in 2013 was $1242. Weird for me because I thought it had peaked at $1,100 - something. I don't remember the $1,200 - something..

----------


## anaconda

$981.98 right now. Looks like a selling frenzy panic.

----------


## anaconda

> I see on Wiki that the previous high in 2013 was $1242. Weird for me because I thought it had peaked at $1,100 - something. I don't remember the $1,200 - something..


This article says the all-time high in 2013 was "around $1150" which is what I seem to recall. Maybe Wiki was referring to some other exchange or something...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashi.../#1533c14c563c

----------


## anaconda

$960.00 now.

----------


## phill4paul

> $981.98 right now. Looks like a selling frenzy panic.


  Or simply cashing out? If it were bought at $300, now would be a good time. No?

----------


## oyarde

> $981.98 right now. Looks like a selling frenzy panic.


Every time you get to , say 1K I imagine it will be like gold @ 1200 or 1300 and profit taking ?

----------


## anaconda

> Or simply cashing out? If it were bought at $300, now would be a good time. No?


Sure. But $30,000 or more is better in a couple of years when the Congress makes it abundantly clear that they can't meet obligations and can't afford interest rate increases on the debt. and I guess for everyone who's currently selling at $960 is matched with someone who definitely wants to get in at $960. My GF got in at $555 and I'm encouraging her to hold them for at least 3-5 years. Or use them if everyone stops buying U.S. bonds. It seems like the potential upside to BTC is yuuuuuge.

----------


## anaconda

> Every time you get to , say 1K I imagine it will be like gold @ 1200 or 1300 and profit taking ?


Ya mean a persistent psychological barrier?

----------


## phill4paul

> Sure. But $30,000 or more is better in a couple of years when the Congress makes it abundantly clear that they can't meet obligations and can't afford interest rate increases on the debt. and I guess for everyone who's current selling at $960 is matched with someone who definitely wants to get in at $960. My GF got in at $555 and I'm encouraging her to hold them for at least 3-5 years. Or use them if everyone stops buying U.S. bonds.


   Yeah. I don't see it (Bitcoin) imploding anytime soon. Holding on to it would not be a bad move. I was just thinking that with the economy some may be converting to cover debt.

----------


## oyarde

> Ya mean a persistent psychological barrier?


Ya . I dunno how I am going to get my million , but I am patient .

----------


## anaconda

> Ya . I dunno how I am going to get my million , but I am patient .


You raise an interesting point that I have been thinking about recently. In the event of a full blown currency crisis, I don't see how BTC (or anything else) will be able to be denominated in U.S. dollars. So, getting to "$1,000,000" may never be possible, per se. You may be able to purchase a "basket of goods" that would be measured in, what we will have calculated to be, $1,000,000 at the January, 2017 price level. I dunno. What do you think? BTC may become tradeable in gold or maybe corporate stock or something.

----------


## anaconda

> Yeah. I don't see it (Bitcoin) imploding anytime soon. Holding on to it would not be a bad move. I was just thinking that with the economy some may be converting to cover debt.


Point well taken. And, obviously, what everyone would ideally like to do is sell right before a dip and buy back at the trough of the dip. Even if one is holding longer term for when the SHTF. And they have the financial resources to do so (as you allude to re covering personal debt).

----------


## Seraphim

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...dity-collapses

----------


## oyarde

> You raise an interesting point that I have been thinking about recently. In the event of a full blown currency crisis, I don't see how BTC (or anything else) will be able to be denominated in U.S. dollars. So, getting to "$1,000,000" may never be possible, per se. You may be able to purchase a "basket of goods" that would be measured in, what we will have calculated to be, $1,000,000 at the January, 2017 price level. I dunno. What do you think? BTC may become tradeable in gold or maybe corporate stock or something.


If the currency goes belly up , maybe we still have "dollars" that are now measured in silver , gold , bitcoin , gasoline, copper and eggs as an example or maybe they are called something else . My youngest Grand daughter calls gold  " good wampum " as opposed to bad paper money

----------


## anaconda

> If the currency goes belly up , maybe we still have "dollars" that are now measured in silver , gold , bitcoin , gasoline, copper and eggs as an example or maybe they are called something else . My youngest Grand daughter calls gold  " good wampum " as opposed to bad paper money


Where would these "dollars" come from? Who would create them and how would they become accepted? And how would they become fixed to the commodities that you list?

----------


## wizardwatson

> You raise an interesting point that I have been thinking about recently. In the event of a full blown currency crisis, I don't see how BTC (or anything else) will be able to be denominated in U.S. dollars. So, getting to "$1,000,000" may never be possible, per se. You may be able to purchase a "basket of goods" that would be measured in, what we will have calculated to be, $1,000,000 at the January, 2017 price level. I dunno. What do you think? BTC may become tradeable in gold or maybe corporate stock or something.


Bitcoin is already trade-able in gold.  It's trade-able in anything.  Bitcoin is nothing but a reliable public ledger that tracks scalar values associated with securely owned account numbers.  Making bitcoin a gold-backed currency wouldn't be a problem if you simply forced the issuance of new coins into that sub-system to originate with a specific account.  

There's lots of things we could do with Bitcoin in it's existing form that would be helpful, but few people really understand what money is or how it works, and even fewer understand which problems related to money that bitcoin actually solves, or could solve.

----------


## anaconda

> Bitcoin is already trade-able in gold.  It's trade-able in anything.  Bitcoin is nothing but a reliable public ledger that tracks scalar values associated with securely owned account numbers.  Making bitcoin a gold-backed currency wouldn't be a problem if you simply forced the issuance of new coins into that meta-system to originate with a specific account.  
> 
> There's lots of things we could do with Bitcoin in it's existing form that would be helpful, but few people really understand what money is or how it works, and even fewer understand which problems related to money that bitcoin actually solves.


Right. Great points. And, I don't think we will see any BTC being traded for U.S. dollars in a currency crisis.

----------


## kpitcher

Wow, below 900. Either a great time to buy or a long drawn out drop before climbing again.

This drop corresponding to the last decline from the record high awhile back?

----------


## anaconda

> Wow, below 900. Either a great time to buy or a long drawn out drop before climbing again.
> 
> This drop corresponding to the last decline from the record high awhile back?


$882.00 now. I'm gonna naively guess this is a good price to get back in at. We'll know soon enough.

----------


## IDefendThePlatform

> The truth of the matter is if the supposed "liberty" oriented people used bitcoin we'd have enough of a network of users to make living outside goobermint money possible for some, or mostly for many. However, I get the feeling that most of the liberty movement is merely composed of natural contrarians, and this movement is just a convenient niche to always be an oppressed group and provide infinite source material to complain and whine about. 
> 
> However, here we are with a couple percent of the users participating, more users will whine about the fed than do anything about it.
> 
> Gold will never replace $#@!, it's easy to confiscate and manipulate. Bitcoin may still fail but that would be because of the ballless anarcho-capitalists, libertarians, etc... don't put their money where their mouth is.


I've said it before: Buying and holding $100 of bitcoin does 5x as much for liberty as a $100 donation to any liberty politician.

----------


## anaconda

> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...dity-collapses


Thanks for this link!

----------


## anaconda

$805.10 now....

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## Jim Casey

I have no idea why bitcoin prices are so volatile.

----------


## anaconda

$777.83

----------


## dannno

> I have no idea why bitcoin prices are so volatile.


Probably because it's still in the emerging stage.

As long as the 30 and 60 day moving averages are relatively stable or continue to rise, no reason to avoid it, though.. If you want to make a purchase in bitcoin and you are cautious, you can always wait until you need to make the purchase and then get the bitcoin to avoid losing value.

If you want to buy some and hold to use later or as an investment, then what is the problem if the moving averages keep rising?

----------


## anaconda

> Probably because it's still in the emerging stage.
> 
> As long as the 30 and 60 day moving averages are relatively stable or continue to rise, no reason to avoid it, though.. If you want to make a purchase in bitcoin and you are cautious, you can always wait until you need to make the purchase and then get the bitcoin to avoid losing value.
> 
> If you want to buy some and hold to use later or as an investment, then what is the problem if the moving averages keep rising?


I heard the Chinese government made everyone nervous:

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/11/bitco...ate-firms.html

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

938!!!

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

958!!

----------


## kfarnan

Thank you bitcoin.

----------


## anaconda

$1013.90 right now..

----------


## roteiro

Time to sell some Bitcoin, huh? I want to sell some as I bought it a couple of years ago for 450/BTC. Where can you recommend me to do it? I have found a nice service at https://www.xmlgold.eu/ The rates seem fine to me. Have you ever tried it before?

----------


## kfarnan

Not sure what country you're in.  Easy way would be to buy PM's, direct at discount.

----------


## anaconda

Looks like it plunged about $100 overnight.

----------


## lucky80

It pass 1000 USD once again ....gogo BTC the greatest technology for mankind ever. People all over the world should turn to it now... and we will free from any corruption...

----------


## anaconda

> It pass 1000 USD once again ....gogo BTC the greatest technology for mankind ever. People all over the world should turn to it now... and we will free from any corruption...


Yes, I see it has bounced back some. Although I think it was up around $1070 about a week ago. Seems to have stabilized at around $1015 or thereabouts. 

Thank you for your comment and welcome to the Ron Paul Forums!

----------


## kpitcher

It's at 1107 and alts are doing their typical decline while btc grows. Not sure the exact correlation, BTC goes up faster than usual, Alts drop. BTC stabilizes and alts go back to normal.  Not sure the reasoning behind that...

----------


## anaconda

$1118.15 right now.

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## anaconda

> It's at 1107 and alts are doing their typical decline while btc grows. Not sure the exact correlation, BTC goes up faster than usual, Alts drop. BTC stabilizes and alts go back to normal.  Not sure the reasoning behind that...


What are alts? Is it this?:  http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/...investment.asp

----------


## kfarnan

> What are alts? Is it this?:  http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/...investment.asp


crypto other than btc, such as ltc, namecoin etc.

----------


## muh_roads

> $1118.15 right now.
> 
> https://www.coinbase.com/charts


$1.19 mBTC

----------


## anaconda

$1199.98

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

OMG, We gonna be so Rich!!!!!!! 1204

IT's Happening. It's catching on, I'm Tellin ya.

----------


## anaconda

$1218.94 It's shortly after NOON in Shanghai.

----------


## anaconda

> OMG, We gonna be so Rich!!!!!!! 1204
> 
> IT's Happening. It's catching on, I'm Tellin ya.

----------


## muh_roads

> $1.19 mBTC


$1.22 mBTC new high.

----------


## Jim Casey

> 


I have no idea why though.

----------


## anaconda

$1282.59

----------


## kpitcher

$951.80 right now, that's quite the tank. The potential of a fork is causing some fear

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/17/bitco...-ethereum.html

----------


## anaconda

> $951.80 right now, that's quite the tank. The potential of a fork is causing some fear
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/17/bitco...-ethereum.html


LOL. Will be interesting to see what comes next.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/17/bitco...-ethereum.html

----------


## FSP-Rebel

This whole charade in price decline reeks of a controlled demolition by the insiders playing big ego nuts over this scaling debate that's been going on for years now, yet the price still recovers and moves on. Now, we are back to the lower region of the linear progression scale and this FUD was timed perfectly for the bearish EW waves to play out accordingly. Shake out weaks hands, then move back to regular scheduled broadcasting.

----------


## kpitcher

Are we going to see sub $900?

----------


## eleganz

> Are we going to see sub $900?


We were close on Saturday.  I bought at the dip at $930 and then it kept going down to 900.  I wanted to buy but I think 1 btc was enough for that night.  Who else bought at the dip this weekend?

Where do you guys stand on BU?

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

1300!!!!

----------


## anaconda

New all time high again 4-27-17.

http://fortune.com/2017/04/29/bitcoi...all-time-high/

----------


## eleganz

Today was insane, so many record high's this week.

$1420 on coinbase

----------


## anaconda

> Today was insane, so many record high's this week.
> 
> $1420 on coinbase


Another thing I hadn't considered until very recently (I think it's from the article directly above) is that a generally wider and increasing mainstream acceptance of BTC should increase the demand for it steadily along with continued increases in price. Apart from any speculative incentive.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> Another thing I hadn't considered until very recently (I think it's from the article directly above) is that a generally wider and increasing mainstream acceptance of BTC should increase the demand for it steadily along with continued increases in price. Apart from any speculative incentive.


You have 5 women and 2 guys. Women are easy to get. Then 2 more guys move in, not to bad, still easy to get a woman if you aren't an ass. But then.. 2 more guys move in.......... now, the poor guys have to go on expense dates, lie to the women constantly to please them, overlook all their personality flaws, just to make sure they aren't womanless.. from 4 guys to 6 guys the price of female companionship went up exponentially.  2 more men move in... OMG... now some of the women are having 2 men!!! waiting on them hand and foot 24/7...    The price for female companionship seems to rise exponentially even as the male population grows at a linear rate when females are a set quantity!!!!!!

Doubling the bitcoin userbase, would/will not just result in a doubling of price. We need increased transaction capacity though, to really increase the userbase chasing Miss Bitcoin.

----------


## anaconda

> You have 5 women and 2 guys. Women are easy to get. Then 2 more guys move in, not to bad, still easy to get a woman if you aren't an ass. But then.. 2 more guys move in.......... now, the poor guys have to go on expense dates, lie to the women constantly to please them, overlook all their personality flaws, just to make sure they aren't womanless.. from 4 guys to 6 guys the price of female companionship went up exponentially.  2 more men move in... OMG... now some of the women are having 2 men!!! waiting on them hand and foot 24/7...    The price for female companionship seems to rise exponentially even as the male population grows at a linear rate when females are a set quantity!!!!!!
> 
> Doubling the bitcoin userbase, would/will not just result in a doubling of price. We need increased transaction capacity though, to really increase the userbase chasing Miss Bitcoin.


I guess in economic theory the new price of BTC with a doubling of the user base would depend on the current shape of the demand curve for BTC and how much it shifts with a doubling of the user base. Also, investors have many alternatives, unlike maybe the guys in your example (although the smart ones would probably just spend the money on a motorcycle and let the other guys fight it out ).

----------


## anaconda

$1489.99 right now. 

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## kpitcher

this is really driving the price of ALTs down. 

BTC as a percentage of crypto currencies had dropped to 59%, is now climbing back up to 62%

http://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#btc-percentage

----------


## eleganz

> $1489.99 right now. 
> 
> https://www.coinbase.com/charts



This is just getting ridiculous (of course it will go higher).  I was just thinking about buy at the dip at 1316 and decided to wait for it to fall more and now its near $1500.  

Anybody buying now?

----------


## wizardwatson

What volume as a percentage of total market cap is traded every day?

What percent of transactions are for actual goods and services?

What is the inflation rate of BTC?



I still maintain, the only really novel thing about crypto is what makes it crypto, the blockchain.  Bitcoins "value" while not entirely unsustainable, is not based on natural bitcoin economics.  It is currently a speculative bubble by all definitions of the word.

----------


## kfarnan

> What volume as a percentage of total market cap is traded every day?
> 
> What percent of transactions are for actual goods and services?
> 
> What is the inflation rate of BTC?


one could say the same for gold as well.

----------


## wizardwatson

> one could say the same for gold as well.


Gold has an inflation rate?  I didn't realize we made advances in alchemy.  

All currencies are different.  Ignoring that and simply talking it up might seem like a good strategy if all you care about is the speculative investment attribute of Bitcoin but it will create mistrust in regular people who might be candidates for just using it as money.

----------


## kfarnan

Agree,  it is speculative, the problem is the fiat currencies that still dominate the world.  Until nothing is pegged to a manipulated currency, there will be speculation.  Bad money will always front run more valuable money. (Gresham's law)

----------


## wizardwatson

> Agree,  it is speculative, the problem is the fiat currencies that still dominate the world.  Until nothing is pegged to a manipulated currency, there will be speculation.  Bad money will always front run more valuable money.


They dominate because very, very few people understand money power.  Perhaps all that's needed is regular people understanding basic concepts of banking and money and an honest system will present itself.

Libertarian concepts are much easier to grasp than monetary concepts.  

I point out the speculative nature of Bitcoin only to present the follow-up observation that those are just exchange rates.  Bitcoin holders don't have to trade on exchanges.  They could peg the value to gold if they wanted, or anything else.  So if Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat, what prohibits us from banking with it?

----------


## kfarnan

> They dominate because very, very few people understand money power.  Perhaps all that's needed is regular people understanding basic concepts of banking and money and an honest system will present itself.
> 
> Libertarian concepts are much easier to grasp than monetary concepts.  
> 
> I point out the speculative nature of Bitcoin only to present the follow-up observation that those are just exchange rates.  Bitcoin holders don't have to trade on exchanges.  They could peg the value to gold if they wanted, or anything else.  So if Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat, what prohibits us from banking with it?


It takes fiat to mine btc.  Most payments are fiat.  The issue is everything is pegged to fiat dollars.  So you're back to trading dollars.  One could be there own bank, but not with Wells , etc.  That is the point, not depending on banks.

Speculation is everywhere.  Stocks, job markets, security.  It's not a new thing.

Monetary concepts are not hard to grasp, they make it seem that way to enslave.

----------


## wizardwatson

> It takes fiat to mine btc.  Most payments are fiat.  The issue is everything is pegged to fiat dollars.  So you're back to trading dollars.  One could be there own bank, but not with Wells , etc.  That is the point, not depending on banks.
> 
> Speculation is everywhere.  Stocks, job markets, security.  It's not a new thing.
> 
> Monetary concepts are not hard to grasp, they make it seem that way


Monetary concepts aren't hard to grasp perhaps for some people.  But they are certainly easily confused and conflated for most people.

For instance, you're saying everything is "pegged" to dollars.  That's typically a term reserved for governments who have volatile currencies who intentionally "peg" their currency's price to a more stable national currency like the dollar.

But bitcoin isn't "pegged" to dollars.  In fact, if Bitcoin was pegged to dollars, it would be a heck of a lot more viable as money than it is now.

What you really mean, I assume, is that everyone is "converting" to dollars.  But why is that the problem?  People can use whatever currency they want can't they?  If we audit and end the fed, then what?  There would still, I imagine, be some kind of "dollar".  There would still be banking, and likely there would still be bitcoin.

I'm completely against this half-baked argument of "fiat dollars are dominant, must destroy before anything else will work" because it's false.  It's not an educated position and it's certainly not a strategy.  Remove the fed from the problem, imagine an empty slate.  What would we build?  What would it look like?  Then just build it.  What are we waiting for?

Bitcoin I see as a good pivot towards sound money, not because it's suitable as money in my personal opinion, but by understanding its qualities and its economics, it gives us a thing to compare against.

We have the Fed.  We have Bitcoin.  The sound money people don't seem to agree with either of these.  One is centrally controlled, one is decentralized I think about as much as we can expect anything to ever be.  So is the solution not somewhere along this spectrum?

----------


## anaconda

$1517.66 right now...

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## dannno

> Gold has an inflation rate?  I didn't realize we made advances in alchemy.


It's mined. It costs money to mine gold. It costs money to mine bitcoin.

----------


## wizardwatson

> It's mined. It costs money to mine gold. It costs money to mine bitcoin.


Good point.  It is analogous on that count as well.  Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

But technically you aren't mining bitcoin, you're mining blocks, and bitcoin is the reward.  Subtle but important difference.

So "gold mining" isn't really inflation.  Whereas the initial distribution of Bitcoins via block mining rewards is controlled inflation.

But I'll let you be right this time as a reward for posting.

----------


## eleganz

Speculative bubble is a yes and no.

Who is buying at 1566???

I think there will definitely be a correction in the short-term but the biggest question is how high will it go before correction sets in?  Once the scaling issue is resolved, BTC will head to 2000 and above.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> What volume as a percentage of total market cap is traded every day?
> 
> What percent of transactions are for actual goods and services?
> 
> What is the inflation rate of BTC?
> 
> 
> 
> I still maintain, the only really novel thing about crypto is what makes it crypto, the blockchain.  Bitcoins "value" while not entirely unsustainable, is not based on natural bitcoin economics.  It is currently a speculative bubble by all definitions of the word.


Can't answer what percent of transaction are for actual goods and services, but I've read articles that quotes bitpay as saying their year over year growth is high and online gambling sites generate a good amount of transactions.. Sorry don't remember the details, but I'm certain the bulk of bitcoin transactions are not direct commercial. I've personally made like 10 "real" purchases with bitcoin. I donated some bitcoin 2 times. 


http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
Bitcoin inflation rate per annum:	3.94%
Bitcoin inflation rate per annum at next block halving event:	1.73%

----------


## anaconda

$1615 right now.

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## anaconda

$1557.12 (down $58 in the last 6 hours).

----------


## dannno

> $1557.12 (down $58 in the last 6 hours).

----------


## anaconda

> 


And I thought I didn't necessarily like fully electronic techno gangster hip hop!

I think maybe BTC is on a careening wobble around a significantly upward trend line.

----------


## anaconda

I wish I had bought Litecoin when it was two bucks not long ago. Currently $24.16

----------


## anaconda

$1624.78 right now. Up $78 in the last 6.5 hours. Fair to say somewhat volatile, although I suppose these numbers become a smaller percentage as the price grows over time.

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## kpitcher

At this rate we'll be hitting 2k by June

----------


## anaconda

> At this rate we'll be hitting 2k by June


Yeah. I think $2K may really be just sort of a foundational beginning platform. And...just _wait_ for a mere flutter of dollar instability to see where BTC really may go...

Got my G/F in at $555 after which BTC promptly went down to around $200. Fortunately she didn't pay any attention or care. She's a tad intrigued now.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

*The Second Wave of Bitcoin Price Growth May Just Be Beginning*

Something interesting has been happening the last couple of weeks.

I'm pretty well connected to a lot of veterans in crypto, and independently, we've all been fielding inquiries from smart money investors, the non-technical types who are now ready for a hedge instrument against global uncertainty.

Our basic conclusion is that what we're seeing right now is a whole lot of new money coming into the cryptocurrency markets.

Some have been perplexed with this unprecedented rise, and it's easy to see why. The total market cap of the space is now $46.5bn, a figure that's up roughly 50% over the last few weeks.

More...http://www.coindesk.com/second-wave-...ust-beginning/

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

OMG, I can now almost $#@! on everyone I knew in High School. Just need that old money to rush in!!!!!!!!!

How you been doin bob? Oh workin at the auto body place, that's cool.

 Oh me... I'm a multi-millionaire that bangs models on the weekend and parties with leonardo di $#@!ing caprio!!!!!!!! No big deal, I try to keep myself grounded though by hanging with all classes of people. It's good to stay connected with common people. Nice seeing you again. I gotta run, big party at the Johnny D's place.

----------


## kpitcher

I left a browser open to coinmarketcap for a day. Yesterday total cap for all coins listed was 44.7 billion. Today it's 46.3 billion. Wow, this is crazier than usual.

----------


## Natural Citizen

Well, I have 1 bitcoin. What's it worth? It's a real coin, though. I thought it was supposed to be virtual.

----------


## wizardwatson

> OMG, I can now almost $#@! on everyone I knew in High School. Just need that old money to rush in!!!!!!!!!
> 
> How you been doin bob? Oh workin at the auto body place, that's cool.
> 
>  Oh me... I'm a multi-millionaire that bangs models on the weekend and parties with leonardo di $#@!ing caprio!!!!!!!! No big deal, I try to keep myself grounded though by hanging with all classes of people. It's good to stay connected with common people. Nice seeing you again. I gotta run, big party at the Johnny D's place.


Hopefully, no one you know from high school is on here.  They might see it coming.

----------


## kpitcher

> Well, I have 1 bitcoin. What's it worth? It's a real coin, though. I thought it was supposed to be virtual.


Do you have one of the casacius coins?

https://www.casascius.com/

If so it's just a physical object with the public and secure private key on it. Like a paper wallet you can print to secure your private key. 

There should be a public address on the coin. You can visit any explorer like http://blockchain.info/ and enter your public address and it will show you the amount of bitcoin, from there you can know how much USD it's worth. Although the original casascius coins actually are worth a bit more for collectors.

----------


## Natural Citizen

> Do you have one of the casacius coins?
> 
> https://www.casascius.com/
> 
> If so it's just a physical object with the public and secure private key on it. Like a paper wallet you can print to secure your private key. 
> 
> There should be a public address on the coin. You can visit any explorer like http://blockchain.info/ and enter your public address and it will show you the amount of bitcoin, from there you can know how much USD it's worth. Although the original casascius coins actually are worth a bit more for collectors.


YES. Ha. Thank You. I'll check it out.

----------


## anaconda

$1712 right now.

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/bitco...stor-says.html

----------


## anaconda

$1742.87

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> $1742.87
> 
> https://www.coinbase.com/charts


UGh stop posting false information it's 1765.00 now! It hasn't been in the 1740's for hours.


edited to add.
Well, looks like I went and broke the rally. My bad.. Back to 1740's

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> UGh stop posting false information it's 1765.00 now! It hasn't been in the 1740's for hours.
> 
> 
> edited to add.
> Well, looks like I went and broke the rally. My bad.. Back to 1740's


Hey buddy, your price is out of date!!!!!!!!!!! It's at 1794 now!!! Sheesh, 1765 was ages ago..

----------


## anaconda

$1778 right now.

----------


## anaconda

> UGh stop posting false information it's 1765.00 now! It hasn't been in the 1740's for hours.
> 
> 
> edited to add.
> Well, looks like I went and broke the rally. My bad.. Back to 1740's


The post has a time stamp.

----------


## anaconda

$1838 right now.

----------


## anaconda

$1877.61

----------


## anaconda

$1889

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> $1889


Insanity!!!! But it's in my favor for once!!! yay...

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## anaconda

$2115.12

I'm no investing expert, but it doesn't look like $2100 scared too many people into sell orders.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

With the price so high it'd be crazy to admit one owns any bitcoin. Luckily I don't have any and barely even heard of it.

----------


## anaconda

$2137

----------


## dannno

> With the price so high it'd be crazy to admit one owns any bitcoin. Luckily I don't have any and barely even heard of it.


Ya, I would be so pissed if I had 100 bitcoin.

----------


## anaconda

$2177.51

----------


## kpitcher

Keep on climbing... I'd like to pay off a mortgage by selling just 1, or even less than 1

----------


## Indy Vidual

Years ago the Bitcoin rallies seemed more exciting, IMO.

Best wishes to all, regarding the re-birth of insane Greed.*
 *Bitcoin cannot currently handle hardly any transactions and fees are way too high now.

----------


## anaconda

$2224 now

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## enter`name`here

This is nuts. My hands are getting weak at these levels..

----------


## anaconda

$2088.42 - sliding now.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

$2149 on bitstamp.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> This is nuts. My hands are getting weak at these levels..

----------


## anaconda

$2288.75

----------


## anaconda

$2316.83

https://www.coinbase.com/charts

----------


## kpitcher

> 


Well then, here's one crypto faucet for you 
http://www.bumbaporn.com

----------


## anaconda

$2350.00

----------


## anaconda

$2385.21

----------


## anaconda

$2394.00

----------


## anaconda

$2442.80

----------


## anaconda

$2460.09

----------


## anaconda

$2485.00

----------


## anaconda

$2520.02

----------


## Indy Vidual

"In reality, no one really needs to spend time debating whether it’s a bubble or not. It is just obvious. The interesting question is what will be the consequences of that, and how much damage it might do when it bursts..." 
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thr...ins-2017-05-24

----------


## anaconda

> "In reality, no one really needs to spend time debating whether it’s a bubble or not. It is just obvious. The interesting question is what will be the consequences of that, and how much damage it might do when it bursts..." 
> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thr...ins-2017-05-24


I am guessing this is a long awaited "correction" rather than a bubble. People may get nervous and there may be an abrupt downturn. But my uneducated guess is that it would recover and continue it's rise against the dollar. The world is simply waking up to BTC, accepting it, and demanding some. The demand curve is pushing outward for a good that has a fixed supply. If nothing else, simple monetary inflation will cause it to rise indefinitely against fiat currency.

----------


## kpitcher

3K by June? This is feeling a lot like the Dotcom valuation days...

Which isn't all bad, a few of those valuations held up over time.

----------


## anaconda

$2560.81

----------


## Indy Vidual

> I am guessing this is a long awaited "correction" rather than a bubble. People may get nervous and there may be an abrupt downturn. But my uneducated guess is that it would recover and continue it's rise against the dollar. The world is simply waking up to BTC, accepting it, and demanding some. The demand curve is pushing outward for a good that has a fixed supply. If nothing else, simple monetary inflation will cause it to rise indefinitely against fiat currency.


I agree about a long-term uptrend.
Also, this move could go over $3,500, followed by another Epic plunge.
Bitcoin has an established pattern of dramatic boom and bust, and the current one is "insane" based on the huge backlog of unconfirmed transactions, historically high fees, and other unresolved issues.





> 3K by June? This is feeling a lot like the Dotcom valuation days...
> 
> Which isn't all bad, a few of those valuations held up over time.


Yes, I was thinking about 1999-early 2000 Dotcom craze earlier today.
Bitcoin crashes tend to recover within 3 years, but it does feel similar.

----------


## Indy Vidual

$2562.49
$2564.41
$2569.94

----------


## anaconda

> $2562.49
> $2564.41
> $2569.94


$2595.95

----------


## anaconda

$2678.46

----------


## anaconda

$2700.00

----------


## anaconda

$2726.53

----------


## anaconda

$2766.91.....

----------


## anaconda

$2778.56

I guess $2700 didn't scare many. I was watching pretty close and it just blew past $2700 without looking back. Often there seems to be a waffling around these new added $100 thresholds.

----------


## enter`name`here

From 2700 to 2400 very quickly. Time to see what this bull run is made of..

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

my dreams are being slaughtered.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> my dreams are being slaughtered.


Never let your dreams die:
It is still a long-term Bull market. Sell some services (or collectable items) for Bitcoin (buying BTC at these lower rates) and expect higher prices later.

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> Never let your dreams die:
> It is still a long-term Bull market. Sell some services (or collectable items) for Bitcoin (buying BTC at these lower rates) and expect higher prices later.


I'm just joking.

----------


## anaconda

$2527.31

----------


## anaconda

$2360.00

----------


## anaconda

$2428.89

----------


## merkelstan

The insane thing is BTC price in S. Korea was like 30% higher than the rest of the world.

----------


## anaconda

$2602.60

----------


## anaconda

> The insane thing is BTC price in S. Korea was like 30% higher than the rest of the world.


Couldn't a South Korean simply buy elsewhere?

----------


## anaconda

$2639.55

----------


## Indy Vidual

> Couldn't a South Korean simply buy elsewhere?


Most exchanges do not take South Korean money, so there would be fees and exchange rate losses in both directions. 30% higher does seem crazy though.

----------


## merkelstan

> Most exchanges do not take South Korean money, so there would be fees and exchange rate losses in both directions. 30% higher does seem crazy though.


Obviously the only reason such differences can occur are government restrictions on trade.

----------


## Indy Vidual

> Obviously the only reason such differences can occur are government restrictions on trade.


To be fair, government isn't always to blame for the largest exchanges not dealing in every possible type of fiat currency.
If someone (anyone) was in a position to arbitrage the Huge price difference, they made a big profit.* 
*Now they need to hope the exchanges do not steal their funds prior to cashing out.

----------


## anaconda

$2279

----------


## anaconda

I'm guessing that the price has become somewhat stable, for the time being, around $2250-$2350. We'll know soon!

----------


## kpitcher

Alts are taking a beating now

Total crypto market cap fell by almost 1/3, 90 Bil to 64 and falling

----------


## anaconda

BTC = $2091.89

----------


## anaconda

.....

----------


## Indy Vidual

> $1990.12
> 
> Down $800 in about 48 hours. 
> 
> Good time to buy or bad time to buy?  
> 
> Back to $200 perhaps?


Great time to start buying, especially for a short-term trader looking to sell the "dead-cat" bounces.

Long-term = Bullish
Short-term = Great odds if you start buying below $2,000
Medium-term == Buy Low / Sell High*
*

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Glad I sold the last of my alt-coins just before the crash.  This is my problem with virtual currency, the instability.  If they would find a stable value they could start being a mainstream currency but no one wants to have a currency that drops to half of what it was when you "earned" it.  It's great on the upswing, but unless you have super intuition you will mostly lose on these deals...

----------


## anaconda

$2409.54. 

Climbing back?

----------


## anaconda

> $1990.12
> 
> Down $800 in about 48 hours.


$2515.00 now. The volatility in BTC is now getting to be rather silly.

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

> $2515.00 now. The volatility in BTC is now getting to be rather silly.


This is why I don't have it as a currency.  Too unstable.  I do try to make a little money trading them but it's a crapshoot.  I've lost big when they took a dump and just now got to the point where I'm up maybe 40% from where I started.  As I look back there are about 100 opportunities to have made big bucks if I'd just held on to them instead of selling.  Oh well, such is the fate of a "trader"...

----------


## anaconda

> This is why I don't have it as a currency.  Too unstable.  I do try to make a little money trading them but it's a crapshoot.  I've lost big when they took a dump and just now got to the point where I'm up maybe 40% from where I started.  As I look back there are about 100 opportunities to have made big bucks if I'd just held on to them instead of selling.  Oh well, such is the fate of a "trader"...


I hear ya. I sold at $200 a few years back and they continued right on to $1100. I made something like $200 profit and missed the extra $900 per coin! I got my girlfriend in at $555 a while back and they went promptly down to around $200. She essentially forgot about them but I had advised her to hold them. So now she's pleased that she's up about $2000 per coin.

----------


## oyarde

I am still holding out for 1 million to cash out .

----------


## TheTexan

> I am still holding out for 1 million to cash out .


Bitcoin is a bubble, its totally going to pop after it hits 1 or 2 million

----------


## Warrior_of_Freedom

if i put my savings into bitcoin last year i'd be able to retire in my 30's 
too risky though

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------


## merkelstan

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@adambal...llow-the-money

Is this it?  The stealth central-banker takeover?

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@adambal...llow-the-money
> 
> Is this it?  The stealth central-banker takeover?


Don't think so, the majority are pro-segwit, which is backed by core, which does have some employed by blockstream. Segwit will allow almost twice the present transaction rate, and make it easy to implement lightning network.  There is nothing stopping a block size increase after that. 

The other side is some miners, the most vocal of which is bitmain, which has been shown to have implemented asicboost into it's miners. AsicBoost allows them to skip a lot of work and thus save power, and segwit would greatly reduce that ability. Bitmain supposedly has patented the process in china, however, the process was already patented in the US previously. so, china being china. Non-creative thieves like ferengi. Thus why they are for a basic blocksize increase of simply doubling the blocksize, which would not effect asicboost. "Convenient" position. 

IMO, the worst player in all of Bitcoinland is Bitmain.

----------


## merkelstan

> Don't think so, the majority are pro-segwit, which is backed by core, which does have some employed by blockstream. Segwit will allow almost twice the present transaction rate, and make it easy to implement lightning network.  There is nothing stopping a block size increase after that. 
> 
> The other side is some miners, the most vocal of which is bitmain, which has been shown to have implemented asicboost into it's miners. AsicBoost allows them to skip a lot of work and thus save power, and segwit would greatly reduce that ability. Bitmain supposedly has patented the process in china, however, the process was already patented in the US previously. so, china being china. Non-creative thieves like ferengi. Thus why they are for a basic blocksize increase of simply doubling the blocksize, which would not effect asicboost. "Convenient" position. 
> 
> IMO, the worst player in all of Bitcoinland is Bitmain.


I'm not qualified to judge the technical merits of both sides, but the discussion is interesting .

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments...2_axa_3_state/

What would be the best result for BTC and cryptocurrencies in general?  Well, for one of them to become _money_ some day, usable in retail and p2p transactions.

Would it be best for BTC to fix the scaling problems soonish or would the cryptocurrency field benefit more from giving the altcoin developers more time to grow possibly superior solutions, possibly Masternode/DAO based like DASH?

----------


## RonPaulIsGreat

> I'm not qualified to judge the technical merits of both sides, but the discussion is interesting .
> 
> https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments...2_axa_3_state/
> 
> What would be the best result for BTC and cryptocurrencies in general?  Well, for one of them to become _money_ some day, usable in retail and p2p transactions.
> 
> Would it be best for BTC to fix the scaling problems soonish or would the cryptocurrency field benefit more from giving the altcoin developers more time to grow possibly superior solutions, possibly Masternode/DAO based like DASH?


The only way bitcoin can be a truly global method of payment for billions around the world is via 2nd layer additions like lightning which needs transaction malleability fix in segwit to work smoothly . Simply doubling the blocksize, or increasing it to 20MB will not change that situation. So, there is no long term merit to the miners position and they know it. they are simply milking an advantage for short term profits and hurting bitcoin. 

Segwit could be active in weeks, all it takes is for the rogue miners to signal for it, but the Bitmain cabal refuses. So, the  fastest path to increased capacity is segwit. A hardfork to increase blocksize will take months, probably a year, simply because the whole ecosystem has to upgrade for a hardfork in advance. 

I see little value being added by DASH, it doesn't do anything new and very few businesses accept it, that could change I guess, but I think it's just riding the hype cycle mostly. Ethereum is trying new things, but they're a bit reckless IMO. Ethereum could take over though if they prove Ethereum to be stable long term and actually create some useful applications for it.

----------


## FSP-Rebel



----------

