# Think Tank > Political Philosophy & Government Policy >  Should abortion be legal?

## Ron Paul Vermont

I know this is a split issue in the Libertarian party and I wanted to see roughly where it is split down the lines.

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## Hiki

Yes. Of course you should have a good reason for it and if the mother is in danger, thats why "until a certain point".

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## UnReconstructed

Hmmm... should the question be "Should their be a government law?"  I believe abortion is murder but I don't believe that at any time anywhere that the Government should be making laws... any laws.

They suck at everything they do.

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## JosephTheLibertarian

Yes, you're sexist if you think it should be illegal. Don't forget that.

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## Roxi

im a female and dead against the morality of abortion. i don't really understand the cases of "medical necessity" because generally that means the baby had spina bifida or downs syndrome and the mother "didn't want her baby to go through that" but after years of being around kids with these same types of ailments i don't see these ailments as ailments anymore.... most of these kids are happy, bright, and super great kids, and everytime i meet one i have huge respects for their parents for doing the right thing and giving them a chance.

i can't say how i would feel in the rape scenario so i don't know.

I was pro-choice for many years, and now im staunchly pro-life.... but i don't think it should be illegal because i don't think it should be up to the government to regulate this. it should be left up to the moral principals of the person involved

i might however support requiring women to go through a few things before recieving an abortion..... for example

1. spend 3 hours with a newborn baby at the hospitals
2. watch a video of an abortion
3. going through several hours of counsiling and a class


i don't think any woman could watch the abortion video they show you in nursing school and still go through with it...

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## JosephTheLibertarian

Being prolife is the same as saying you want to stick your nose in other people's business.

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## Roxi

> Being prolife is the same as saying you want to stick your nose in other people's business.




if your referring to my post, thats BS, reread it.... if your referring to the avg prolife politician your dead on

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## JosephTheLibertarian

> if your referring to my post, thats BS, reread it.... if your referring to the avg prolife politician your dead on


ok. lol. yeah, politicians. So you're prolife, but you don't think it's a government issue? I guess I agree with that. I know I wouldn't want my gf or wife having one, but I know I couldn't stop her from doing so. hmm. I think of it as a non-government issue, which is why I always say I'm prochoice, but I think the procedure itself is...very disguisting, I believe the only time is _should_ morally be performed is when the woman's life is in danger. But I just will not support government regulation of abortion, it won't work.

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## UnReconstructed

> ok. lol. yeah, politicians. *So you're prolife, but you don't think it's a government issue?* I guess I agree with that. I know I wouldn't want my gf or wife having one, but I know I couldn't stop her from doing so. hmm. I think of it as a non-government issue, which is why I always say I'm prochoice, but I think the procedure itself is...very disguisting, I believe the only time is _should_ morally be performed is when the woman's life is in danger. But I just will not support government regulation of abortion, it won't work.



Same thing here.  I don't like labels but I would say that I'm pro-life but don't think that it's a government issue.

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## micahnelson

> Yes, you're sexist if you think it should be illegal. Don't forget that.


What kind of attitude is that, only women have a say in the development of a child? Are men not as responsible? For 9 months the woman has to carry the child, but for 18 years they are equally as responsible. I suppose biology is sexist too, forcing a woman to have to go through labor to produce a child. A man becomes sexist if he tries to be involved before birth, but is a chauvinist if he isn't involved after birth. Interesting. 

I am completely against abortion and believe it should be illegal. It should be handled at a state level, but I'm not entirely opposed to a national ban. Human rights must be protected at all stages, from prenatal to geriatric. If we decide that the government should not be involved with protecting life, then it doesn't make much sense for a government to even exist. 

A person has rights to act as they want with their own body, but not with another persons body. If the government, for the sake of convenience, wants to allow a person to destroy the child living inside them- then we have given them the ultimate right to decide who is and is not protected. 

I am consistent in my beliefs here, being against the death penalty and wars not fought in self defense. The only definition the government can make regarding human life must be in the broadest possible terms. To do otherwise is to give government the power of eugenics. 

Possibly someone can give me an argument where the right to terminate a life is not based on convenience or eugenics. I have never heard any.

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## TastyWheat

Personally I think life should be protected as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and a fertilized embryo is a life. However this issue will never be cut and dry. At the very least no tax dollars should fund abortion and performing one should be at the doctor's discretion (i.e. doctors can refuse an abortion at any time). Still, I think the best way to handle the situation is by initiative.

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## asgardshill

Another noob data-mining expedition.

(But at least this one isn't identifying who answered how).

Pass.

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## JosephTheLibertarian

> Another noob data-mining expedition.
> 
> (But at least this one isn't identifying who answered how).
> 
> Pass.


I guess you're a noob then.

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## asgardshill

> I guess you're a noob then.


No, I am not.  I have 2,755 posts.  And moreover, I am not making up polls.

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## Kludge

If the mother's life is at risk/resulted from rape, incest.

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## micahnelson

> If the mother's life is at risk/resulted from rape, incest.


I would somewhat agree here. If a woman had no option of preventing the pregnancy, ie rape, then it may be over reaching to force her to carry it to term. 

I do think that should get factored in though when the rapist goes to trial. Not just a rape, but a reckless creation and destruction of life. 

If the mothers life is at risk, then it is no longer a matter of "I don't think I want this baby", its a matter of maximizing survival.

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## Nirvikalpa

No.

It defies science to believe the baby is not a human within the first seconds of conception.

The only case I would be somewhat lenient would be in cases of rape or incest, but even then... adoption.

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## BudhaStalin

Abortion should be legal under all circumstance so long as the procedure used to abort the baby is done carefully, humanely, and within weeks, not months when they baby is almost fully developed. And I agree, it would be at the doctor's discretion whether he chooses or not to undergo such a procedure. It's the woman's burden to bear and she knows what's best for her.

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## JosephTheLibertarian

I think we should stop being sexist, ok?

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## Nirvikalpa

Oh.  So now it's sexist if you don't support murder?  A man has every right to his child just as much as the woman does.

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## porcupine

No.

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## JosephTheLibertarian

> Oh.  So now it's sexist if you don't support murder?  A man has every right to his child just as much as the woman does.


That would only be the case in a matriarchal scoiety, my dear

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## Monolithic

of course

her body, her choice

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## micahnelson

> of course
> 
> her body, her choice


Wouldn't that apply more to suicide?

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## Unspun

> Being prolife is the same as saying you want to stick your nose in other people's business.


So what you're saying is murder should be legal because it's none of other people's business?  I see...

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## SeanEdwards

> Abortion should be legal under all circumstance so long as the procedure used to abort the baby is done carefully, humanely,


Careful and humane for who? How is it humane to dismember a tiny helpless underdeveloped person? The abortion fans should at least have the courtesy to wait for the victim to reach an age and stage of development where they have some opportunity to defend themself. It's just not sporting otherwise.

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## JS4Pat

Can you change the poll to differentiate between FEDERALLY LEGAL and LOCALLY LEGAL?

I don't think the federal government should be involved in this issue - as they are now - thanks to ROE vs WADE.

In my state - yes - I would fight for legislation that protects the LIFE of another human being. 

Common Sense...

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## Ron Paul Vermont

Wow this post really took off. I guess I hit a nerve. 

Well I guess I am going to have to be sexist (no just kidding) and say that I don't think it should be legal *EXCEPT* in the case of rape and if it is because of that within the first couple weeks.

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## Ron Paul Vermont

Wow and split it right. *11*-*10*-6-3

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## Truth Warrior

*Other explain: Should premeditated murder be legal?*

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## youngbuck

I guess killing an unborn baby is a mother's right.  Makes perfect sense to me!!!

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## Truth Warrior

> I guess killing an unborn baby is a mother's right. Makes perfect sense to me!!!


How about a born baby?  The letters "un" don't really make much of a difference.<IMHO>

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## Theocrat

> I know this is a split issue in the Libertarian party and I wanted to see roughly where it is split down the lines.


Asking if abortion should be legal is like asking if murder should be legal. The answer should be obvious. If it's not, then perhaps these pictures should assist you towards the correct answer (*Warning: graphic pictures*).

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## JosephTheLibertarian

> Asking if abortion should be legal is like asking if murder should be legal. The answer should be obvious. If it's not, then perhaps these pictures should assist you towards the correct answer (*Warning: graphic pictures*).


Looks like some disguisting tiny alien. ewww

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## Theocrat

> Looks like some disguisting tiny alien. ewww


Well, it's definitely not a chicken (nor any other animal, for that matter).

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## LibertyRevolution

I voted Yes abortion should be legal.

Life begins at conception, but you are a not an individual, a person, and do not have any rights until you are born.

Why is this so hard for some people understand…FALLOW THE PROPERTY. 

Until a child is born, the fetus is a part of the mothers body, the mother is the original owner of her body (the property), thus the fetus growing in her body belongs to her. 
The property owner can do as they want with their own property, thus the mother has a right to chose whether or not to let it continue to live.
I would have no problem with women getting pregnant just to have abortions to sell their fetus for harvesting stem cells. 

Now if you kill a mother and her child, then yes, you are accountable for 2 deaths, because you were not the owner of either property.
If a doctor harms or kills a fetus by accident, he is not the property owner, and the mother has the right to sue him for the damage.

Let me put some of my other views here so you can have a better grasp of me:

I also think that suicide should be legal. It is a victimless crime, thus not a crime. 

I also support the idea of allowing premeditated murder of anyone crossing the border illegally. The government should offer a bounty of $100 per body brought in. The government should cover this cost by harvesting organs from the dead bodies, and turning the rest turned into fertilizer. And yes I would be ok with killing the women and children also, they are a bigger drain on our economy then the men anyways.

I would still want the government to own the roads, but I would like them to allow me my right to free travel and not place restrictions on my speed or my choice of driving styles, unless I cause an accident. The speed I am traveling at should be non of their concern unless I actually hit someone else’s property. At that point my speed should be cited as a reason for the crash. All these stupid driving laws are just taking away my right to chose, should I not have the right to make a bad choice and drive like an ass if I want too? I don’t care that I _may_ be risking someone else life, they had the choice to stay home, or to take a back road, charge me if I actually injure someone.

Drug laws. Scrap them all. Once again a victimless crime. only people getting hurt because of drugs are the people caught in the crossfire of turf wars to control the black market sales.

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## SeanEdwards

> Until a child is born, the fetus is a part of the mothers body,


That is not true. The fetus is genetically unique individual. It is not part of the woman's body, it is a parasitic organism within the mothers body.




> the mother is the original owner of her body (the property), thus the fetus growing in her body belongs to her.


So if you have dinner inside my house, does that mean you belong to me? You're inside my property, shouldn't I have the right to kill you if I feel like it?




> The property owner can do as they want with their own property, thus the mother has a right to chose whether or not to let it continue to live.


Our law has not considered human beings property since the emancipation proclamation.




> I also support the idea of allowing premeditated murder of anyone crossing the border illegally. The government should offer a bounty of $100 per body brought in. The government should cover this cost by harvesting organs from the dead bodies, and turning the rest turned into fertilizer. And yes I would be ok with killing the women and children also, they are a bigger drain on our economy then the men anyways.


You could have just stated a disclaimer at the beginning of your post. Something along the lines of, "I'm a sociopathic ghoul with no morality. Here's what I think..."




> I dont care that I _may_ be risking someone else life,


Oooohkaaaay....

You wouldn't happen to have sharks in your family tree would you?

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## Ozwest

I prefer to treat women as thinking individuals, capable of making decisions.

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## revolutionman

each individual state should decide whether or not abortion should be legal or illegal based on the consensus of said states populace.

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## Hiki

> Asking if abortion should be legal is like asking if murder should be legal. The answer should be obvious. If it's not, then perhaps these pictures should assist you towards the correct answer (*Warning: graphic pictures*).


*COUGH* Propaganda *COUGH*

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## Ozwest

Perhaps teenage pregnancy rates would drop...

If 8 year old's weren't hooked on marketing and Hollywood hype.

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## SeanEdwards

> *COUGH* Propaganda *COUGH*


That's not propaganda. That's the reality. Calling the dismemberment of those tiny people "a choice" is propaganda.

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## Truth Warrior

> I prefer to treat women as thinking individuals, capable of making decisions.


This includes capable of making the decisions of killing their children?  

If your mother had made such a decision differently you wouldn't even be posting here.  

Why is it that *ALL* of those advocating abortions are *ALL* already born?

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## SeanEdwards

> Why is it that *ALL* of those advocating abortions are *ALL* already born?


Maybe because people who aren't born don't have internet access?

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## Ozwest

> This includes capable of making the decisions of killing their children?  
> 
> If your mother had made such a decision differently you wouldn't even be posting here.  
> 
> Why is it that *ALL* of those advocating abortions are *ALL* already born?


Thanks for being highly emotive Truth Warrior.

I have a total dis-respect for life, and need you to show me the way to backyard abortions.

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## Kalifornia

State issue.  Let each state decide.  If you dont like your state's decision, move.

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## Ozwest

Would you be against the use of condoms and the pill in Bangladesh?

Righteous one.

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## Kalifornia

> Would you be against the use of condoms and the pill in Bangladesh?
> 
> Righteous one.


If you are talking to me, thats their decision.  I care not.

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## Ozwest

> If you are talking to me, thats their decision.  I care not.


No. 

Truth Warrior.

I agree with you Kalifornia.

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## Truth Warrior

> Thanks for being highly emotive Truth Warrior.
> 
> I have a total dis-respect for life, and need you to show me the way to backyard abortions.


You're welcome! 

Backyard abortions are still just abortions.  So I'll assume there may just be an irrelevant *POINT* in there somewhere. 

BTW, thanks for answering the questions, *as usual*.

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## Truth Warrior

> Maybe because people who aren't born don't have internet access?


Roe v. Wade is older than the widespread Internet access availability.

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## Ozwest

> You're welcome! 
> 
> Backyard abortions are still just abortions.  So I'll assume there may just be an irrelevant *POINT* in there somewhere. 
> 
> BTW, thanks for answering the questions, *as usual*.


Good thing you live in a perfect world.

Could you answer my question about condoms and birth control?

Ace.

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## Kalifornia

> Asking if abortion should be legal is like asking if murder should be legal. The answer should be obvious. If it's not, then perhaps these pictures should assist you towards the correct answer (*Warning: graphic pictures*).


Thanks for that.  I havent actually seen photos of fetuses at various stages.  I'm still unclear that first trimester abortions are an actual killing, but Im fairly certain that the 24 week photo is a killing.  

I am curious though why they showed weeks 7-12, and then jumped to 24.  

I have always been against abortion on a personal level, but have felt that in a republic with 50 states, there is room for 50 solutions to this problem.  I still feel that way, though personally I would choose to vote against allowing later term abortions in my state of residence (at the very minimum).

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## Truth Warrior

> Would you be against the use of condoms and the pill in Bangladesh?
> 
> Righteous one.


As you may remember, I am a *HUGE* fan and a strong advocate of the *PREVENTION* of unwanted pregnancies.

Deja vu?

Still just not gonna answer the original questions, eh?  

( Psst, just between us, if I were *YOU*, I wouldn't either.  )

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## Ozwest

> As you may remember, I am a *HUGE* fan and a strong advocate of the *PREVENTION* of unwanted pregnancies.
> 
> Deja vu?
> 
> Still just not gonna answer the original questions, eh?  
> 
> ( Psst, just between us, if I were *YOU*, I wouldn't either.  )


I applaud you.

So the pill and the morning after pill are Ok with you?

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## Truth Warrior

> Good thing you live in a perfect world.
> 
> Could you answer my question about condoms and birth control?
> 
> Ace.


Ain't about "perfect", Deuce, merely barely acceptable, as in *non-barbaric*.

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## Ozwest

Truth Warrior,

I detest abortion.

It saddens me.

But I respect a womans right to choose. It cannot be easy...

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## Truth Warrior

> I applaud you.
> 
> So the pill and the morning after pill are Ok with you?


Prevention yes, after the fact, no.  Chemical abortions too are still just abortions. *DUH!!*

Nice try there to slip a fast one by, Slick!

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## Kalifornia

> I applaud you.
> 
> So the pill and the morning after pill are Ok with you?


Personally, I think they are overprescribed, and women dont get enough real information about the side effects, but that is a public health issue, and in information issue, not a morality issue.

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## Ozwest

> Personally, I think they are overprescribed, and women dont get enough real information about the side effects, but that is a public health issue, and in information issue, not a morality issue.


Sorry, but the pill is a God-send.

It was for my partner.

Get rid of the pill.

And there's going to be problems...

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## Truth Warrior

> Truth Warrior,
> 
> I detest abortion.
> 
> It saddens me.
> 
> But I respect a womans right to choose. It cannot be easy...


"Right to choose" is merely bogus BULL$#@! PR marketing cooked up by the PRO-ABORTION crowd and movement, to *sell* better.

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## Ozwest

> Prevention yes, after the fact, no.  Chemical abortions too are still just abortions. *DUH!!*
> 
> Nice try there to slip a fast one by, Slick!


I'm not advocating rampant use of the "morning after" pill as a form of contraception.

But...

It prevents a fertilized egg from attaching itself the the uterus.

Definitely not conception.

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## Kalifornia

> Sorry, but the pill is a God-send.
> 
> It was for my partner.
> 
> Get rid of the pill.
> 
> And there's going to be problems...



Not saying get rid of it.  Im saying just make sure the consent is fully informed.  My wife got some shot of something resembling Depo, it damn near put her in the loony bin and really messed her up physically.

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## Ozwest

> "Right to choose" is merely bogus BULL$#@! PR marketing cooked up by the PRO-ABORTION crowd and movement, to *sell* better.


Like "Pro - Life" is not bogus BULL$#@!.

It insinuates that others are "anti- life."

Get real.

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## revolutionman

You cant be anti abortion and anti nanny state, sorry, some ones gotta take care of those kids, and if the parents don't want it, but you make the parents have the kid anyway, guess who's responsibility that child becomes??

That's why I have always thought that liberals should be anti abortion, that way they can have more useless mouths to feed in their army of dependent inepts.

We can support all of the babies that should have been aborted with our tax dollars!

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## Truth Warrior

> I'm not advocating rampant use of the "morning after" pill as a form of contraception.
> 
> But...
> 
> It prevents a fertilized egg from attaching itself the the uterus.
> 
> Definitely not conception.


*Prevention* of uterus attachment is prevention, not abortion.<IMHO>

Off the discussion table.  Agreed?

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## Ozwest

> Prevention yes, after the fact, no.  Chemical abortions too are still just abortions. *DUH!!*
> 
> Nice try there to slip a fast one by, Slick!


Sorry Ace. I guess the morning after pill, is often referred to as a chemical abortion.

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## Truth Warrior

Hey, I'm a huge fan of *"Right to choose"* on state, war, taxes, voting, tyranny, etc.   *Murder*, not so much!

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## Ozwest

*duh!*

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## Truth Warrior

> Sorry Ace. I guess the morning after pill, is often referred to as a chemical abortion.


Not by me. 

*Sorry Deuce, non-attachment is non-pregnancy, by definition.*

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## Kalifornia

> Hey, I'm a huge fan of *"Right to choose"* on state, war, taxes, voting, tyranny, etc.   *Murder*, not so much!


Just a quick consistency check.  What is your position on the death penalty?

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## Ozwest

> *Sorry Deuce, non-attachment is non-pregnancy, by definition.*


Read.

I'm not repeating myself again. 

I'm holding the Ace.

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## Truth Warrior

> Just a quick consistency check. What is your position on the death penalty?


 *Opposed!*  I oppose *ALL* force, violence and coercion. The *STATE*'s claimed  *monopoly* turf*.* 

It's simply *barbaric*.

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## Truth Warrior

> Read.
> 
> I'm not repeating myself again. 
> 
> I'm holding the Ace.


Re-read, I updated my quoted post. 

Promise?  

*Deuce!*

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## Truth Warrior

I just really love playing poker with the Neanderthals.

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## Kalifornia

> *Opposed!*  I oppose *ALL* force, violence and coercion. The *STATE*'s claimed  *monopoly* turf*.* 
> 
> It's simply *barbaric*.



Well, at least you are consistently 'pro-life'.

Settle this for me though.  

In a society that respects the individual right to determine their own life, unless you consider abortion to be murder, how can you oppose it?

If you consider abortion to be murder, then even the most vehement pacifist would agree that killing in defense of life is justified.

If you believe that abortion should not be committed under any circumstances or in any state, and you believe it is murder, do you advocate the defense of the unborn by killing their killers?

This is why I cant make a universal decision that all abortion is murder.  Because if it is murder, then the state has a right to kill Doctors and mothers who have abortions to prevent them from doing so.  Since I have to choose between one form of life and another, I must choose to err on the side that I KNOW is human life. 

Again, this doesnt apply to my own personal choices, but rather what Im willing to authorize the state to do via my vote.

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## Ozwest

> I just really love playing poker with the Neanderthals.


Make sure you don't lose your ass.

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## Truth Warrior

> Like "Pro - Life" is not bogus BULL$#@!.
> 
> It insinuates that others are "anti- life."
> 
> Get real.


*REALLY!*

Insinuate, hell. I consider it *"Pro-Death"*. That's the reason why "weenie-butt" marketing PR *"Right to choose"* was cooked up in the first place.

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## Truth Warrior

> Make sure you don't lose your ass.


So far, so good.<IMHO>  Thanks for your concern though.

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## Ozwest

If abortion is criminalized, many women will seek "other" ways of terminating their pregnancy.

Is it not preferable to offer counsel and  support, rather than threats, or incarceration?

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## Ozwest

> *REALLY!*
> 
> Insinuate, hell. I consider it *"Pro-Death"*. That's the reason why "weenie-butt" marketing PR *"Right to choose"* was cooked up in the first place.


We are not in church now.

I am absolved.

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## Truth Warrior

> Well, at least you are consistently 'pro-life'.
> 
> Settle this for me though. 
> 
> In a society that respects the individual right to determine their own life, unless you consider abortion to be murder, how can you oppose it?
> 
> If you consider abortion to be murder, then even the most vehement pacifist would agree that killing in defense of life is justified.
> 
> If you believe that abortion should not be committed under any circumstances or in any state, and you believe it is murder, do you advocate the defense of the unborn by killing their killers?
> ...


No one asks the individual *abortee*!

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## Kalifornia

> No one asks the individual *abortee*!


the fact that they are incapable of speech doesnt really support your case that when choosing between their life and liberty, and the life and liberty of the mother and the doctor, that we should err on the side of the fetus.

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## Truth Warrior

> We are not in church now.
> 
> I am absolved.


 What's church got to do with it, or anything else for that matter?

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## revolutionman

spend the same money one would spend on an abortion, on cocaine and vodka, and you can have fun and destroy the life inside you. Sadly there are too many young woman taking that approach already.

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## Truth Warrior

> the fact that they are incapable of speech doesnt really support your case that when choosing between their life and liberty, and the life and liberty of the mother and the doctor, that we should err on the side of the fetus.


I suggest "err on the side of caution", is preferable.  As in, *PREVENT* unwanted pregnancies.  

*No pregnancy, no fetus, no abortion, no problem.*

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## Kalifornia

> I suggest "err on the side of caution", is preferable.  As in, *PREVENT* unwanted pregnancies.  
> 
> *No pregnancy, no fetus, no abortion, no problem.*


I think most people can agree on that.

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## Truth Warrior

> Well, at least you are consistently 'pro-life'.
> 
> Settle this for me though. 
> 
> In a society that respects the individual right to determine their own life, unless you consider abortion to be murder, how can you oppose it?
> 
> If you consider abortion to be murder, then even the most vehement pacifist would agree that killing in defense of life is justified.
> 
> If you believe that abortion should not be committed under any circumstances or in any state, and you believe it is murder, do you advocate the defense of the unborn by killing their killers?
> ...


Post #73 is *STILL* my answer.

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## Ozwest

> I suggest "err on the side of caution", is preferable.  As in, *PREVENT* unwanted pregnancies.  
> 
> *No pregnancy, no fetus, no abortion, no problem.*


Legalize or not, abortions will always be a part of society. An attempt to restrict abortions would rise not only the percentage of illegal and unsafe abortions but also the expenses of the procedure.

A new law would be needed to tackle illegal abortions and further legal hassles would have no ends.

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## Kalifornia

> Post #73 is *STILL* my answer.



You still havent solved the problem.

If you say that all abortion is murder, then to allow it is a sanction of violence. 

If you outlaw abortion, then you have sanctioned violence against the mother and the doctor, on the grounds that it is the lesser of evils. 

You cant wuss out and say that you dont support ANY violence.  In this situation, violence will be done.  If you say you have an answer, you must pick who the state should advocate violence against, because violence certainly is going to be done.

My solution is to go with what I KNOW.  I KNOW that third trimester abortions are killing, so I would vote to ban them.  The others Im unsure of, so I have to err on the side of those who I  KNOW to be human life when it comes to sanctioning the violence of the state.

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## Ozwest

Truth Warrior...

Pragmatism?

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## Hiki

What about sperm? In each ejaculation theres millions and millions of sperm, all of them possible future "Vinnies and Debbies" carrying the DNA of the possible "Vinnie or Debbie". So when a man comes, you dont hear a lot of crying for those sperm do you?

What about cancer cells or tumors? Dont hear a lot of "Save the tumors". However, these are parts of *life* and oh boy we just love to kill them.

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## Kalifornia

> What about sperm? In each ejaculation theres millions and millions of sperm, all of them possible future "Vinnies and Debbies" carrying the DNA of the possible "Vinnie or Debbie". So when a man comes, you dont hear a lot of crying for those sperm do you?
> 
> What about cancer cells or tumors? Dont hear a lot of "Save the tumors". However, these are parts of *life* and oh boy we just love to kill them.



I find comparing a fetus to a sperm cell or a tumor to be a little unfair.  Neither of those things turns into a human if left alone.

----------


## Hiki

> I find comparing a fetus to a sperm cell or a tumor to be a little unfair.  Neither of those things turns into a human if left alone.


Just looking for some consistency in this *"Pro-life"* stuff. Yeah they wont pop up into a human but that wasn't the point, they're all part of life.

----------


## DAFTEK

Banning abortion has been done already and it was a disaster, just look what happened in Communist Romania under Ceausescu's evil rule that left millions of orphan handicapped and disfigured children and tens of thousands of dead women or sick for life! And you guys are for the the freedom of the constitution? Where are a women's rights? bleahh.... 

I strongly believe a women should have the choice to do what ever she wants with her body and her soul!!!

----------


## Alex Libman

Prohibition on abortion is contrary to everything that libertarians believe in.  You cannot be a thinking libertarian and put the rights of a parasite above those of its host.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> You still havent solved the problem.
> 
> If you say that all abortion is murder, then to allow it is a sanction of violence. 
> 
> If you outlaw abortion, then you have sanctioned violence against the mother and the doctor, on the grounds that it is the lesser of evils. 
> 
> You cant wuss out and say that you dont support ANY violence. In this situation, violence will be done. If you say you have an answer, you must pick who the state should advocate violence against, because violence certainly is going to be done.
> 
> My solution is to go with what I KNOW. I KNOW that third trimester abortions are killing, so I would vote to ban them. The others Im unsure of, so I have to err on the side of those who I KNOW to be human life when it comes to sanctioning the violence of the state.


Solving *THE* problem is *NOT* my job.  I only control myself, no others.  I've solved *MY* problem.  FWIW, I offer my solution, to interested others.  Works for me!  

Live and let live!

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Legalize or not, abortions will always be a part of society. An attempt to restrict abortions would rise not only the percentage of illegal and unsafe abortions but also the expenses of the procedure.
> 
> A new law would be needed to tackle illegal abortions and further legal hassles would have no ends.


 To the degree that we don't get past *ALL* of it, we're all just *"stuck"* in barbarism.  I *choose* otherwise.

----------


## Ozwest

Sounds like you found the "Rabbit hole," Truth Warrior.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Truth Warrior...
> 
> Pragmatism?


The main problem with pragmatism *IS,* it doesn't work! 




*PRINCIPLES!*

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Sounds like you found the "Rabbit hole," Truth Warrior.


 Choose the "red pill".

----------


## Ozwest

Actually, it's 11:55 pm. in West Australia.

And...

I choose a 2006 Pinot Noir.

I live in wine country.

Cheers!

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Actually, it's 11:55 pm. in West Australia.
> 
> And...
> 
> I choose a 2006 Pinot Noir.
> 
> I live in wine country.
> 
> Cheers!


Red pill and Pinot Noir go very well together.  Only side effect is *epiphany*.<IMHO>

----------


## Ozwest

I'm on my second bottle...

As if you couldn't tell.

----------


## familydog

Anyone else getting the "Abortion Ringtone" ad?

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

If you don't believe in women's right to choose, you don't believe in women's rights.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> If you don't believe in women's right to choose, you don't believe in women's rights.


*Murder* is *NOT* a women's right.<IMHO>  Nor a man's for that matter.

----------


## JosephTheLibertarian

> *Murder* is *NOT* a women's right.<IMHO>  Nor a man's for that matter.


but it's their body. they have a right to say, "I don't want something living off of me."

----------


## Truth Warrior

> but it's their body. they have a right to say, "I don't want something living off of me."


 I didn't design the reproduction system.  This is the way I found it.  

You don't want to *BE* pregnant.  Then just don't *GET* pregnant.  *DUH!!!* 

I don't really give a damn what the SCOTUS said or says.  They seem to think that the Fed is all "just fine and dandy" too.

----------


## Ozwest

> I didn't design the reproduction system.  This is the way I found it.  
> 
> You don't want to *BE* pregnant.  Then just don't *GET* pregnant.  *DUH!!!* 
> 
> I don't really give a damn what the SCOTUS said or says.  They seem to think that the Fed is all "just fine and dandy" too.


Amazing.

You are going to re-write history. Oracle status.

Continue with your enlightenment.

Your flock awaits.

----------


## Alex Libman

Truth Warrior's dictatorial prohibitionism is another drop I have in my bucket of regret for supporting Ron Paul.  I should have supported someone like Mary Ruwart from day one.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Truth Warrior's dictatorial prohibitionism is another drop I have in my bucket of regret for supporting Ron Paul. I should have supported someone like Mary Ruwart from day one.


I deny, resent and reject that purely bogus scurrilous unfounded charge.  

*Dictated where and when, wise guy?*

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Amazing.
> 
> You are going to re-write history. Oracle status.
> 
> Continue with your enlightenment.
> 
> Your flock awaits.


I ain't no shepherd.  I leave *ALL* that BS and crap to the politicians.

----------


## Ozwest

> I ain't no shepherd.  I leave *ALL* that BS and crap to the politicians.


Yeah,

I suggest you live and learn before setting your thoughts in stone.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Yeah,
> 
> I suggest you live and learn before setting your thoughts in stone.


Thanks!  Suggestion noted, Neander.

----------


## Alex Libman

> I deny, resent and reject that purely bogus scurrilous unfounded charge.


You dictate what a woman can or cannot do to her body, and you are willing to use the force of government to punish her (and/or her doctor) for the choice that she makes.

----------


## Ozwest

> Thanks!  Suggestion noted, Neander.


Neanderthal?

Is good.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> You dictate what a woman can or cannot do to her body, and you are willing to use the force of government to punish her (and/or her doctor) for the choice that she makes.


*MY* post #s please.  Talk is cheap, wise guy.  Put up or shut up.

----------


## Ozwest

What would be the prognosis if men got pregnant?

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Neanderthal?
> 
> Is good.


How many have you eaten?

----------


## Truth Warrior

> What would be the prognosis if men got pregnant?


Abortion would be a religious sacrament.

----------


## Ozwest

> How many have you eaten?


I'm a basically hairless Norwegian.

Almost an Albino.

Six foot two and blue eyed.

I'm an old man (49).

Still kick your ass.

----------


## Ozwest

Sorry,

That sounded weird.

----------


## Ozwest

I am not a Neanderthal.

I'm alive.

----------


## mitty

> Anyone else getting the "Abortion Ringtone" ad?


lol. what does an abortion sound like?

----------


## Truth Warrior

> I'm a basically hairless Norwegian.
> 
> Almost an Albino.
> 
> Six foot two and blue eyed.
> 
> I'm an old man (49).
> 
> Still kick your ass.


Hairless? Testosterone shortage? 

Nope, I'm bigger. 6'5", 240 lbs., and significantly older and wiser, *WITH* an Uzi.

----------


## Ozwest

> Hairless? Testosterone shortage? 
> 
> Nope, I'm bigger. 6'5", 240 lbs., and significantly older and wiser, *WITH* an Uzi.


You may be taller.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> You may be taller.


And smarter *AND* sober!

----------


## Ozwest

> And smarter!


In a different way.

But I have great hair.

----------


## Alex Libman

I'm a 330 lb mad Russian with air cover.  I win.  

Now, what does this have to do with putting women and their doctors in jail, and supporting a black market in overpriced and unsafe abortions?

----------


## Ozwest

> And smarter *AND* sober!


Sober.

Never trust a man that doesn't drink.

Fair comment.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> I'm a 330 lb mad Russian with air cover. I win. 
> 
> Now, what does this have to do with putting women and their doctors in jail, and supporting a black market in overpriced and unsafe abortions?


Still no evidence.  Just as I thought, wise guy.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Sober.
> 
> Never trust a man that doesn't drink.
> 
> Fair comment.


I never said I don't drink, now did I?

----------


## Ozwest

> I'm a 330 lb mad Russian with air cover.  I win.  
> 
> Now, what does this have to do with putting women and their doctors in jail, and supporting a black market in overpriced and unsafe abortions?


All right. Glory Days.

First All- State, All Area.

Third team All-American.

First team North- South All-Stars.

All H.S.

Was a Drug dealer and a slut.

My apologiies.

Still kick your ass.

----------


## Alex Libman

T.W. is playing a game of supporting tyranny by implication without ever getting his hands dirty.  I've met a lot of communists like that...  "I voted for the omelet, I never voted for breaking any eggs."

----------


## Alex Libman

(Or maybe he did, I just have better things to do with my time than dig through 4,500 of his one-liners.)

----------


## Alex Libman

(Sorry for double-posting.  The admins took my edit privileges away for criticizing the Constitution Party.)

----------


## Truth Warrior

> T.W. is playing a game of supporting tyranny by implication without ever getting his hands dirty. I've met a lot of communists like that... "I voted for the omelet, I never voted for breaking any eggs."


*BULL$#@!!!!* Do your RPF post homework, wise guy.  Find me *ANYTHING!!!*

----------


## Alex Libman

> Still kick your ass.


Of course, I never lifted anything heavier than a beer keg.  But I have darn good air cover.  Instant death from above.  





> *BULL$#@!!!!* Do your RPF post homework, wise guy.  Find me *ANYTHING!!!*


You're claiming I can't find a post of you being against legal abortion?

----------


## Ozwest

" The good Lord gave you a body that can stand almost anything. It's your mind you have to convince."

Vince Lombardi   ---

----------


## Alex Libman

> "Right to choose" is merely bogus BULL$#@! PR marketing cooked up by the PRO-ABORTION crowd and movement, to *sell* better.


This sort of derangement makes you less than a human being in my view.

You are not pro-life.  You are anti-choice.

----------


## DAFTEK

> Hairless? Testosterone shortage? 
> 
> Nope, I'm bigger. 6'5", 240 lbs., and significantly older and wiser, *WITH* an Uzi.


your an idiot and should qft!

btw: an abortion is murder only in a idiots church brainwashed head like yours.....

btw ill kick your ass without an uzi, punk....

----------


## Ozwest

> your an idiot and should qft!
> 
> btw: an abortion is murder only in a idiots church brainwashed head like yours.....
> 
> btw ill kick your ass without an uzi, punk....


DAFTEK.

Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Easy son.

----------


## DAFTEK

I don't chew

----------


## Ozwest

Make sure you go to the range and train.

Otherwise you might shoot yourself in the foot.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> This sort of derangement makes you less than a human being in my view.
> 
> You are not pro-life. You are anti-choice.


 I'm not "anti-choice", I'm anti-Death.  What is the "choice"?  Life or *DEATH*! Pro-life requires no friggen "choice" ( so called ).  How many *MILLIONS* since Roe v. Wade, so far and counting? *PREVENT unwanted pregnancies!!!!* My totally consistent position, *ALWAYS*. 

You're view is *WHACKED!*<IMHO> Keep on digging.

----------


## DAFTEK

> Make sure you go to the range and train.
> 
> Otherwise you might shoot yourself in the foot.


I trained plenty don't worry, i suggest you take your own advise thou and worry about your own foot....

----------


## constituent

this is funny, but not "ha ha funny."

----------


## Truth Warrior

> your an idiot and should qft!
> 
> btw: an abortion is murder only in a idiots church brainwashed head like yours.....
> 
> btw ill kick your ass without an uzi, punk....


What church, asshat? You're just totally full of $#@! *TOO*.  

You'd just better bring the WHOLE *flock* along with you.

----------


## Ozwest

> I trained plenty don't worry, i suggest you take your own advise thou and worry about your own foot....


Perhaps between the two of us we can save the world.

----------


## Alex Libman

Every breath you take you kill some living organisms, some even bigger than what is killed by a "morning after" pill.  The "right to life" doesn't come from your irrational compassion, it comes from it being a competitive advantage: societies that don't recognize the right to life are too violent for any civilized cooperation to take place and have never made it out of the stone age.  Societies that have unlimited irrational respect for all living things, like some radical Buddhists, can't even build a house foundation without evacuating all the earthworms first - you can imagine what that does to their ability to compete in a modern globalized economy.  Giving animals rights also has many problems: they cannot be expected to respect the property of others, and animal experiments are the backbone of modern science.

The ideal society recognizes the right of human beings to self-ownership based on when those human beings become a tangible entity within the society.  The "right to life" cannot exist before physical autonomy is achieved: a fetus cannot sue to prevent eviction any more than your toe nails can (and some people might have different DNA in their toe nails than their brain).  And the rights to liberty and property cannot exist before the entity is capable of being a rational judgment in one's own self-interest, that is as the result of suing for emancipation from one's parents or reaching a certain age of maturity, whichever comes first.

What the "anti-choice" crowd is doing is granting the government higher authority over one's body and/or one's children, and that is diametrically opposed to everything that libertarianism stands for!

----------


## Truth Warrior

Hey, it's good to flush the *baby killer cheerleaders* out every so often.  Wrong forum folks!

----------


## DAFTEK

> Perhaps between the two of us we can save the world.


Perhaps, i have tried but realized the saving never really ends, i just go one day at a time and hope for the best....

----------


## TurtleBurger

A consistent libertarian position on abortion is this:
Government should not interfere abortion.  Government should also not interfere with privately organized, privately funded mobs that want to lynch abortionists.  Interestingly, it's pretty rare to find anyone who takes such a consistent position.  Why aren't pro-choicers defending "freedom of choice" for lynch mobs?

----------


## Ozwest

$#@! the government.

Support and cherish mothers.

Ultimately, allow them their decision.

It is arrogance to assume otherwise.

----------


## Alex Libman

Yes, that's what libertarians do all day, kill babies.  That is what defines us as a movement, as opposed to authoritarians, who would never kill a baby.  Authoritarianism has done wonders for babies.  Especially in China.

----------


## Truth Warrior

$#@! "society". It's only a concept and an "abstraction". It does *NOT* exist, in the *REAL* world. 

*Collectivist phony BS propaganda!!!*

----------


## Ozwest

> Perhaps, i have tried but realized the saving never really ends, i just go one day at a time and hope for the best....


Good .

Stop whining, and go kick some ass!

----------


## Alex Libman

... and there's absolutely positively no moral difference between forced abortions and prohibition of abortions.  Zilch.  Nada.  Zip.  Zero.

If you don't believe in self ownership, it doesn't matter if you're "pro-life" or not today, the powers that you entrust to make that decision on behalf of the individual can change their mind tomorrow.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> A consistent libertarian position on abortion is this:
> Government should not interfere abortion. Government should also not interfere with privately organized, privately funded mobs that want to lynch abortionists. Interestingly, it's pretty rare to find anyone who takes such a consistent position. Why aren't pro-choicers defending "freedom of choice" for lynch mobs?


Where's *YOUR* libertarian *"Non-Aggression Principle"*?  Rookies!

----------


## DAFTEK

> Good .
> 
> Stop whining, and go kick some ass!


I wasn't whining, i thought we wore going to kick some ass together? Now your just like the rest of them

----------


## Alex Libman

Lynching women and/or doctors who perform abortion is murder.

----------


## Ozwest

> $#@! "society". It's only a concept and an "abstraction". It does *NOT* exist, in the *REAL* world. 
> 
> *Collectivist phony BS propaganda!!!*


It does exist.

The *Real* world involves *Real* people.

Some of us are capitalists.

And.. We deal with real money.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> Lynching women and/or doctors who perform abortion is murder.


Doctors who perform abortion are really nothing more than really large blobs of cells.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> ... and there's absolutely positively no moral difference between forced abortions and prohibition of abortions. Zilch. Nada. Zip. Zero.
> 
> If you don't believe in self ownership, it doesn't matter if you're "pro-life" or not today, the powers that you entrust to make that decision on behalf of the individual can change their mind tomorrow.




* DUH!!!  You're just singing to the preacher, wise guy. * 

*I believe in the babies' "self-ownership" TOO.  They aren't the PROPERTY of the parents NOR the state either, to be merely disposed of at their whim and convenience.* 

*Unlike you, obviously.*

----------


## Nirvikalpa

I love women who are pro-choice and then bitch and moan about *exploitation*.

It's not ok for women to be downtrodden on, judged, not have the same rights as men, etc, but it's perfectly alright if we down trod on, judge, and take away the rights of *our* unborn children?

----------


## Truth Warrior

> It does exist.
> 
> The *Real* world involves *Real* people.
> 
> Some of us are capitalists.
> 
> And.. We deal with real money.


Where? Show me one. You can be the first.  I see real people everyday, but *NO* "society" ( so called ) *EVER*.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> Where's *YOUR* libertarian *"Non-Aggression Principle"*?  Rookies!


I didn't say people should lynch abortionists, just that if they choose to do so, government shouldn't prevent them.  Government interference with the mob's choices is aggression.

----------


## Ozwest

> Doctors who perform abortion are really nothing more than really large blobs of cells.


I doubt that.

They are probably the least selfish of all doctors.

----------


## Ozwest

> Where? Show me one. You can be the first.  I see real people everyday, but *NO* "society" ( so called ) *EVER*.



I don't owe you an explanation.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> I doubt that.
> 
> They are probably the least selfish of all doctors.


Does a person's level of selfishness affect the legitimacy/morality of wacking them?  Some would argue that selfish people are the most valuable members of society (see Rand) and so killing a selfish person is worse than killing a nonselfish one.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> I love women who are pro-choice and then bitch and moan about *exploitation*.
> 
> It's not ok for women to be downtrodden on, judged, not have the same rights as men, etc, but it's perfectly alright if we down trod on, judge, and take away the rights of *our* unborn children?


 About half of which are female, BTW.

----------


## Ozwest

The most valuable members of society are truthful.

Liars deserve "whacking."

----------


## Truth Warrior

> The most valuable members of society are truthful.
> 
> Liars deserve "whacking."


*Barbarian!*

----------


## Ozwest

> *Barbarian!*


Actually...

Viking.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> I didn't say people should lynch abortionists, just that if they choose to do so, government shouldn't prevent them. Government interference with the mob's choices is aggression.


 So is the mob's choice. *Demobcrazy.*

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Actually...
> 
> Viking.


I rest my case!

----------


## Ozwest

Grunland.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> The most valuable members of society are truthful.
> 
> Liars deserve "whacking."


So if we find an abortionist lying then you don't mind if we lynch them?  We can go knock on their door and ask them if they want a cookie.  If they say "no thanks" we can lynch them, because in their heart, everyone wants a cookie and he would be lying.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Grunland.


 The icy place?

----------


## TurtleBurger

> So is the mob's choice. *Demobcrazy.*


So is the abortionist's choice to commit abortions.  It's just a big long chain.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> So is the abortionist's choice to commit abortions. It's just a big long chain.


 Yep, big long chain of barbarians.

----------


## Ozwest

> So if we find an abortionist lying then you don't mind if we lynch them?  We can go knock on their door and ask them if they want a cookie.  If they say "no thanks" we can lynch them, because in their heart, everyone wants a cookie and he would be lying.


No.

Whacking is serious business.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> No.
> 
> Whacking is serious business.


For barbarians AKA vikings.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> No.
> 
> Whacking is serious business.


Serious or not, we've already established that everyone who lies needs to be whacked.  I think the cookie scheme is just a good method for drawing out the liars.

----------


## Ozwest

> The icy place?


I live in a warm place. And am happy.

Nine years in the "Windy City" cured me.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> I live in a warm place. And am happy.
> 
> Nine years in the "Windy City" cured me.


 Dodge City, KS is windier.   Look it up!

----------


## JK/SEA

Are we talking Federal Involvment in this?

It should be left up to the Individual State governments.

In my case, if Washington had a choice, i would vote to ban abortions.

----------


## Ozwest

Might be.

I put my snow shovel away.

Prawn on the Barbie!

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Are we talking Federal Involvment in this?
> 
> It should be left up to the Individual State governments.
> 
> In my case, if Washington had a choice, i would vote to ban abortions.


Nope! I'm not. 

I'm talking *PREVENT UNWANTED PREGNANCIES* AKA *PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.*

----------


## Ozwest

Truth Warrior,

Nine years of the 
Windy City" never cured me of the Blues.

Time to play some B.B. King!

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Truth Warrior,
> 
> Nine years of the 
> Windy City" never cured me of the Blues.
> 
> Time to play some B.B. King!


 Ah, a microflash of civilization. There may just be some hope.

----------


## Hiki

> Nope! I'm not. 
> 
> I'm talking *PREVENT UNWANTED PREGNANCIES* AKA *PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.*


Sssooo... Do not make abortion legal but make sure that no-one gets an unwanted pregnancy? I'm sure you know that people get raped. Condoms (or whatever system you're using) can fail. A fetus can become damaged aka. the child would be severely crippled. The pregnancy could become a severe threat for the woman. Something quick can happen in the woman's life (like getting fired and loosing your source of income etc. etc.) which would make having a child quite a $#@!job.

And even though with all these variables still no abortion *CAUSE IT'S IMMORAL AND FRICKING BARBARIC AND STUFF!!!*

Jeezz...

----------


## Ozwest

I am privilidged.

To be a blues boy!

----------


## JK/SEA

States Rights.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> I don't owe you an explanation.


You're correct. Your bull$#@! stands ....................... as bull$#@!.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> States Rights.


 Preferable, though still barbaric.<IMHO>

----------


## Hiki

> I am privilidged.
> 
> To be a blues boy!


Ameen brothaa!

----------


## TurtleBurger

> Sssooo... Do not make abortion legal but make sure that no-one gets an unwanted pregnancy? I'm sure you know that people get raped. Condoms (or whatever system you're using) can fail. A fetus can become damaged aka. the child would be severely crippled. The pregnancy could become a severe threat for the woman. Something quick can happen in the woman's life (like getting fired and loosing your source of income etc. etc.) which would make having a child quite a $#@!job.
> 
> And even though with all these variables still no abortion *CAUSE IT'S IMMORAL AND FRICKING BARBARIC AND STUFF!!!*
> 
> Jeezz...


Those issues don't go away when the baby is born.  I could lose my job when my kids are teenagers, or they coud have accidents and need to be put into wheelchairs (God forbid).  Maybe I should just whack them at that point.  I'd tell my boss "I wish you weren't laying me off, now I have to go pick up my children from school and execute them because I can't afford them any more."

----------


## Truth Warrior

> Sssooo... Do not make abortion legal but make sure that no-one gets an unwanted pregnancy? I'm sure you know that people get raped. Condoms (or whatever system you're using) can fail. A fetus can become damaged aka. the child would be severely crippled. The pregnancy could become a severe threat for the woman. Something quick can happen in the woman's life (like getting fired and loosing your source of income etc. etc.) which would make having a child quite a $#@!job.
> 
> And even though with all these variables still no abortion *CAUSE IT'S IMMORAL AND FRICKING BARBARIC AND STUFF!!!*
> 
> Jeezz...


Ah, just been waiting for those. Thanks! 

Raped? What did the baby do wrong to deserve execution?

Danger to the mother? I can go with REAL self-defense.

Failed condom etc. Not the babies' fault. No execution of the innocent.

Inconvenient? $#@! happens!  How about the "inconvenient" adults? Them too?

How about incest, birth defects, etc.?

Yep, pretty much! 

Check the annual abortion stats. 

Those really tough justifiable cases are minuscule and microscopic in the totals since Roe v. Wade.  We're talking multi *MILLIONS* of unjustiable abortions here. Do your homework. 

The *vast* and overwhelming majority are merely "Oops, messed up!" *Kill IT! Retroactive BIRTH CONTROL!*

----------


## Ozwest

No one can have babies.

Problem solved.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> No one can have babies.
> 
> Problem solved.


What about those of us who already have babies?  Do we have to wack them?

----------


## Truth Warrior

> No one can have babies.
> 
> Problem solved.


Definitely solves the species problem ..................... eventually.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> What about those of us who already have babies? Do we have to wack them?


Ask the NAU and the NWO! Never mind, they'll just *TELL* you.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> No one can have babies.
> 
> Problem solved.


A better solution is to legalize baby selling.  There'd be very few abortions if you could sell babies for 10 grand a pop.

----------


## Ozwest

> What about those of us who already have babies?  Do we have to wack them?


I would hope you don't wack them.

Otherwise I might have to *whack* you upside the head.

----------


## Ozwest

> A better solution is to legalize baby selling.  There'd be very few abortions if you could sell babies for 10 grand a pop.


Great idea.

Unfortunately...

Others are already doing it.

----------


## Truth Warrior

> A better solution is to legalize baby selling. There'd be very few abortions if you could sell babies for 10 grand a pop.


 Bring back slavery? Who *OWNS* the babies you're gonna sell?  

Barbarians! *< GAG! >*

----------


## Hiki

> Ah, just been waiting for those. Thanks! 
> 
> Raped? What did the baby do wrong to deserve execution?
> 
> Danger to the mother? I can go with REAL self-defense.
> 
> Failed condom etc. Not the babies' fault. No execution of the innocent.
> 
> Inconvenient? $#@! happens!  How about the "inconvenient" adults? Them too?
> ...


I...I cant believe the stupidity in this.

----------


## Ozwest

> Bring back slavery? Who *OWNS* the babies you're gonna sell?  
> 
> Barbarians! *< GAG! >*


Stop $#@!ing about.

Feudalism works for me.

----------


## TurtleBurger

> Bring back slavery? Who *OWNS* the babies you're gonna sell?  
> 
> Barbarians! *< GAG! >*


You could sell them to infertile couples, or to baby rental agencies to be rented to illegal aliens that want to establish US residency, or to Christmas nativity scenes, or as models for baby clothes stores.  The possibilities are endless.  Like Ron Paul says, "I'd rather be alive AND free", but until they are 16 or so the babies could at least be alive and they could get the "free" part when they are older.

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## Ozwest

> You could sell them to infertile couples, or to baby rental agencies to be rented to illegal aliens that want to establish US residency, or to Christmas nativity scenes, or as models for baby clothes stores.  The possibilities are endless.  Like Ron Paul says, "I'd rather be alive AND free", but until they are 16 or so the babies could at least be alive and they could get the "free" part when they are older.


A $#@!ing entrepenuer!

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## Truth Warrior

> A $#@!ing entrepenuer!


Slave trader!

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## Ozwest

> Slave trader!


I trade in scalps.

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## Kludge

You are most free when you can sell yourself into slavery.

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## Ozwest

> You are most free when you can sell yourself into slavery.


" Law is a mind without reason."

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## Truth Warrior

> I...I cant believe the stupidity in this.


But *YOU* can believe the *STUPIDITY* of abortion, of course, hunh *STATIST*.

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## Ron Paul Vermont

> State issue.  Let each state decide.  If you dont like your state's decision, move.



It says "IN THE CONSITITUTION" that (states) shall not make decissions regarding human life. It is up to the federal government. "as much as a diasgree with that. it is what is says" I suppose you could make an ammendment.

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## familydog

> lol. what does an abortion sound like?


Well, it depends on what kind. If we are talking about a partial birth abortion, the baby's brains getting sucked out in a vaccuum sounds like sucking up a last bit of milkshake with a straw.

Other abortions don't have a sound outside the womb. Its easier to kill when you don't know or hear or see the person.

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## JK/SEA

OK, it is hereby decreed no more abortions.

Next.

How about we tackle the flag burning issue? 

Gotta be the number one issue facing us today.

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## Truth Warrior

> I trade in scalps.


Your barbarism has already been consistently *over* established repeatedly, viking, Neander.

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## Ron Paul Vermont

> OK, it is hereby decreed no more abortions.
> 
> Next.
> 
> How about we tackle the flag burning issue? 
> 
> Gotta be the number one issue facing us today.


I acually read somewhere that there is a law that makes flag burning illegal and you can get sent to prison for a certain amount of time.

Yes it is a tought issue. I guess if you hate America that much go somewhere else. Yes im for freedom but of course there are exceptions... the obvious ones are killing, stealing, ect.

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