# Lifestyles & Discussion > Personal Security & Defense >  Best 3 gun combo for Zombie Apocalypse

## Bastiat's The Law

What's the best 3 gun combo for the zombie apocalypse or any apocalyptic scenario?

The requirements are simple.  The trio must consist of a *handgun, long gun (rifle), and a shotgun*.  

In my scenario, I'm considering what 3 guns would you have purchased prior to the rise of the undead that would be most useful to both killing zombies, taking care of human threats (mobs, gangs, pillagers), and for hunting purposes.  

Further, I would suggest picking what kind of environment you're in, such as dense urban (think large city like NYC or Chicago), suburban, rural, or mountain regions.  

Try to have some fun with it, but don't get too ridiculous.  I imagine once the apocalypse starts, there will be greater chances to add to your personal arsenal depending on your plans and where you raid.

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## Qdog

What is this bull$#@! about a Zombie Apocalypse?  Are we 8 years old or something?  I will entertain a real life scenario though.  Lets call it the hungry people breaking down your door cause the dollar collapsed and they are starving apocalypse.  

In that case my picks would be a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with 00 buck, an M14 in 7.62 Nato, and a Sig P226 in .357 Sig.

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## oyarde

I am partial to a Browning A500 , SKEET CYL with 16 pellets  .30 CAL, #1 buck, but #4 Buck or 0 Buck , or the new 140 pellet #1 , Hex shaped, stackable steel pellets will do in a pinch, or an AR with 40 round clips, machete , tomahawk.....

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## PierzStyx

Easy. No matter if we're talking zombies, or mobs, the need for power isn't quite there. Either die with a single bullet to the head. Its better to have easy to use and ammo that can be either stocked up on or that is produced in a higher quantity so you're more likely to find it while scavenging.  With that in mind, for me its:

A 9mm with silencer (that way the noise is less likely to draw more attention when I only need to fight a small group but run the risk of attracting a larger one), a Ruger 22 (the clip connector is the exact same for a banana clip which holds 40 rounds), and the Mossberg 500 is actually a great shotgun.

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## youngbuck

I'd probably go Saiga 12, Glock 9mm, and Sig 556R (or AK).

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## Bastiat's The Law

> What is this bull$#@! about a Zombie Apocalypse?  Are we 8 years old or something?  I will entertain a real life scenario though.  Lets call it the hungry people breaking down your door cause the dollar collapsed and they are starving apocalypse.  
> 
> In that case my picks would be a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with 00 buck, an M14 in 7.62 Nato, and a Sig P226 in .357 Sig.


Hence why I said any apocalyptic scenario.

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## GunnyFreedom

Well, if all bets are off, then go for the AA-12, LMT308MWS, and a Smith and Wesson M&P .40 Tactical with Tritium sights.

But as many people as post will all have different answers...

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## Athan

> What is this bull$#@! about a Zombie Apocalypse?  Are we 8 years old or something?  I will entertain a real life scenario though.  Lets call it the hungry people breaking down your door cause the dollar collapsed and they are starving apocalypse.  
> 
> In that case my picks would be a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with 00 buck, an M14 in 7.62 Nato, and a Sig P226 in .357 Sig.


A few years ago I thought the same thing. However when you are aquiring supplies, its best you use excuses like "airsoft", "paintball team" and other artful junk. Nobody takes zombies seriously or the people who think one is going to happen and thus they don't harrass them.

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## Athan

> Well, if all bets are off, then go for the AA-12, LMT308MWS, and a Smith and Wesson M&P .40 Tactical with Tritium sights.
> 
> But as many people as post will all have different answers...


What I'd love to have in a Zombie outbreak: 
AA-12, Glock 22, SCAR-H

What I actually have:
Remington 887 Nitro Mag Tactical, S&W Sigma .40, M4 5.56 (MBR) and M1A1 .30 Carbine.
What I NEED is more Ammo.

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## Elwar

You will all die in the zombie apocolypse.

Everyone knows you have to cut their heads off.

A machete or an axe will be my weapons of choice.

You will shoot a hole in some zombie and then be surprised when he gets back up and bites you. Then you become a zombie and I have to cut your head off too.

For my own sake. Please buy an axe!

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## Athan

> You will all die in the zombie apocolypse.
> 
> Everyone knows you have to cut their heads off.
> 
> A machete or an axe will be my weapons of choice.
> 
> You will shoot a hole in some zombie and then be surprised when he gets back up and bites you. Then you become a zombie and I have to cut your head off too.
> 
> For my own sake. Please buy an axe!


Realistically, a zombie apocolypse really can't happen in America. Every redneck in the country will travel several states to get their shooting in. In a "zombie apocolypse" the real threat will always be the human element.

I mean I already have a machete and an ax cut cutting foilage around the house, but I doubt I will use it for what your saying. 50 bucks will get you amazing machetes and axes. It isn't so cheap for good and necessary arms.

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## acptulsa

> You will all die in the zombie apocolypse.
> 
> Everyone knows you have to cut their heads off.
> 
> A machete or an axe will be my weapons of choice.
> 
> You will shoot a hole in some zombie and then be surprised when he gets back up and bites you. Then you become a zombie and I have to cut your head off too.
> 
> For my own sake. Please buy an axe!


What's more, you DON'T NEED more ammo.  A good rasp file, yes.  More ammo, no.

That said, my three gun combo doesn't use a shotgun.  A Ruger 22/00 rifle, a Ruger Mark pistol, and a little bitty .22LR that can be concealed about the body with ease.  Hunting/long range defense, home defense and personal defense on the move, and all of them use the same (accurate, cheap) ammo.

Of course, for .22LR to be a 'stopper round', you do have to be good...

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## Athan

> What's more, you DON'T NEED more ammo.  A good rasp file, yes.  More ammo, no.
> 
> That said, my three gun combo doesn't use a shotgun.  A Ruger 22/00 rifle, a Ruger Mark pistol, and a little bitty .22LR that can be concealed about the body with ease.  Hunting/long range defense, home defense and personal defense on the move, and all of them use the same (accurate, cheap) ammo.
> 
> Of course, for .22LR to be a 'stopper round', you do have to be good...


You also need correct ammo. 22 isn't a stopping round. The best you can do is hit the head and hope the bullet ricochets in the skull or brain cavity. You need hollow point to provide stopping power and different ammo varients to penetrate and cause body trauma.

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## Chris from Upstate NY

AR-15 in 5.56 nato
Remington 870 12ga
S&W M&P 40
Husqvarna 55 Rancher with 20" bar
Gerber Gator
Brass Knuckles

...get some!!!

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## VBRonPaulFan

I have a really old single shot H&R 12g shotgun. it's basically just steel with a wood stock and has almost no moving parts except for the hammer. nothing to break and does the job.

i'd pick an AK47 for my rifle, you can scavenge that ammo anywhere and it has the stopping power to take down a group of whatever. also very tough and easy to break down/clean.

for the pistol, probably a glock 19 or sf21.

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## acptulsa

> You also need correct ammo. 22 isn't a stopping round. The best you can do is hit the head and hope the bullet ricochets in the skull or brain cavity. You need hollow point to provide stopping power and different ammo varients to penetrate and cause body trauma.


Stinger hollow points, yes, definitely.  I agree.  But even these are cheap enough in .22LR you could actually practice with them in a pinch.

It isn't the perfect round, but sure has the advantages I mentioned--price, accuracy and interchangeability.

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## chudrockz

Picked up this "zombie apocalypse" knife a couple weeks ago. It was our anniversary, so I figured my wife would only roll her eyes at my purchase, and not be annoyed enough to test it out on me. 

http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...Knife&i=616963

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## GuerrillaXXI

Please, please, I'm begging you...no more zombie talk!  The threats we need to be concerned with about are the police and military first, and common criminals second.

With that out of the way, my three ideal guns in an apocalyptic scenario would be:

*Rifle:* Larue OBR in .308 with 16" or 18" barrel. If I didn't have surplus AP ammo for this caliber, I'd stick with 5.56 and a well-made M4 (Colt, Larue, Noveske, Daniel Defense, etc.), and I'd carry both M855 ammo and some good hollowpoint ammo for it.

*Shotgun:* Remington 870P or Mossberg 590A1

*Handgun:* HK P30 or Walther PPQ (both are 9mm)

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## mortepa

*Ok, Zombie guns, this is fun!!!*

*Shotgun*
Kel-Tec KSG, 12 GA, Crimson Trace laser/light foregrip, and Trijicon RX30, & Winchester PDX1 rounds


*Rifle*
FN SCAR 308 with grenade launcher, 10" SBR, Trijicon Acog, Winchester Silvertips


*Pistol*
Desert Eagle, 44 magnum, Winchester Supreme
(ok, ok, in real life, this would be a boring Glock 19)

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## WilliamShrugged

Funny. I own a glock 21, Ak-47, and my 20 gauge shotgun ive had since 2nd grade. But my favorite is my recurve bow.

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## WilliamShrugged

> AR-15 in 5.56 nato
> Remington 870 12ga
> S&W M&P 40
> Husqvarna 55 Rancher with 20" bar
> Gerber Gator
> Brass Knuckles
> 
> ...get some!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5euXm5msz1Y

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## heavenlyboy34

> What is this bull$#@! about a Zombie Apocalypse?  Are we 8 years old or something?  I will entertain a real life scenario though.  Lets call it the hungry people breaking down your door cause the dollar collapsed and they are starving apocalypse.  
> 
> In that case my picks would be a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge *with 00 buck*, an M14 in 7.62 Nato, and a Sig P226 in .357 Sig.


I don't know about Mossbergs...but if it's possible to get shells with buck and a slug, I imagine it would be more useful in the apocalypse. (never tried it, but I've seen demonstrations, and I am impress)

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## heavenlyboy34

edit: n/m

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## mortepa

> Ok, WTF is the point of putting a $#@!ing laser sight on a shotgun?   If you're at such a long distance that super accuracy is a concern, just open the choke for a wider shot pattern.  Should be sufficient for the apocalypse.


If you ever shot a KSG bullpup 12 gauge with this configuration, you would not be asking that question.  This shotgun combo is without a doubt, the most fun gun I have EVER shot in my life.  Point and shoot 14 rounds from the hip?!?!  Come on, how can you possibly have more fun than this with a shotgun???

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## heavenlyboy34

> If you ever shot a KSG bullpup 12 gauge with this configuration, you would not be asking that question.  This shotgun combo is without a doubt, the most fun gun I have EVER shot in my life.  Point and shoot 14 rounds from the hip?!?!  Come on, how can you possibly have more fun than this with a shotgun???


LOL, yeah.  I changed my mind as soon as I submitted that, hence the n/m.   14 rounds would be $#@!ing AMAZING.    I think the only thing more fun would be the AA-12.

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## mortepa

Yeah, ok, you got me with the AA-12.  Good call.   LOL  However, for us lowly civilians, this is about as good as it gets.  :-)

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## Athan

> *Ok, Zombie guns, this is fun!!!*
> 
> *Shotgun*
> Kel-Tec KSG, 12 GA, Crimson Trace laser/light foregrip, and Trijicon RX30, & Winchester PDX1 rounds


Just so posters know, I love Kel-Tec but I hear this shotgun is apparently a pain to reload.

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## Athan

> Please, please, I'm begging you...no more zombie talk!  The threats we need to be concerned with about are the police and military first, and common criminals second.


Why did you open the one thread dedicated to a zombie apocolypse? In anycase, I recommend having fun once in a while so let the zombie talk continue.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> You will all die in the zombie apocolypse.
> 
> Everyone knows you have to cut their heads off.
> 
> A machete or an axe will be my weapons of choice.
> 
> You will shoot a hole in some zombie and then be surprised when he gets back up and bites you. Then you become a zombie and I have to cut your head off too.
> 
> For my own sake. Please buy an axe!


Best 3 melee weapons will be next thread

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## GunnyFreedom

If I may suggest a weapon that does not fit your rigid categorization.

Beretta makes a pistol caliber carbine that will make for excellent close work, and can hurl an accurate .40 S&W to a deadly stop out to 200 yards.  Sharing a common caliber with your carry pistol (the Cx4 comes in 9mm .40S&W and .45 ACP) so you can mad stock up, _OR_ using a different caliber to increase the likelihood of a battlefield pickup being useful.

As to the SCAR-H, Oh my I love this weapon.  Extraordinarily modular, can go from hard-core CQB to hard core sniper in the twist of a barrel.  Something I would love to see is the Benelli R1 converted into a modular combat system.  Now the Benelli R1 is a modular semiautomatic cartridge fed rifle more accurate than most bolt actions, that can swap itself for .30-06 or .300 WSM or .308 on the fly.  Also, gas piston for enduring clean operation.  Just like the SCAR is (IIRC) gas piston.

I like the LMT308 as a full on rifle system, just as modular as the SCAR, but there are already more parts and accessories available for the platform, because of the common AR frame, and I don't need to use it for CQB because that's what the Beretta Cx4 Storm is for. :-p

Honestly, in my setup if I could get a 16 round mag in .30-06 for the Benelli R1 I would ditch the tacticool altogether and go hunting rifle.  Never really get past the Cx4 in the neighborhood, but if real combat comes I have a rifle that would make the M1 Garand weep for mercy.

All I need is lots of money lol.

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## Athan

> Beretta makes a pistol caliber carbine that will make for excellent close work, and can hurl an accurate .40 S&W to a deadly stop out to 200 yards.  Sharing a common caliber with your carry pistol (the Cx4 comes in 9mm .40S&W and .45 ACP) so you can mad stock up, _OR_ using a different caliber to increase the likelihood of a battlefield pickup being useful.


That reminds me, also there is a pistol/carbine conversion kit (such as Roni) that I would LOVE to have. I would normally want to just have a Glock platform pistol in the RONI in the short barrel rifle mode at home most of the time, then if I need to head to town just take the Glock out and leave the Roni kit in the car.


They are also making one for the PX4 Storm Gunny!

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## Bastiat's The Law

I don't know how practical some of these choices are.  Gotta think weight and ammo requirements and availability.  Weight is a killer to any wandering person or merc.  The 22 is a great zombie stopping rifle. Plink away for hours on a handful of ammo, no recoil, not too loud... the slug rattles around in the brain... Reliable... tons of parts.... light, easy to carry.  Plus it's a great little hunting rifle for small game.  Standard box of shotgun shells holds what, 25 rounds? How many 22 rounds do you think will fit in a same sized box?  Thousand perhaps?  I really like the survival 22 that breaks apart and fits in the stock. Waterproof and it floats I think. Fits in any bug out bag.

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## AuH20

Did anyone see the Stag ESK kit? They are actively marketing it as the Mayan Calendar Disaster Rifle. LOL

http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/s...rs-kit-review/

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## Athan

HOLY CRAP! That is a beautiful drop in handle!

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## Bastiat's The Law

How do you guys feel about this combo:

*FNH Five seveN*: 20+1, light recoil for follow up shots

*FNH PS90*: 50+1, uses same bullet as Five seveN so you only need to carry one type of ammo.  Both guns are extremely light.  Of course the 5.7x28mm round isn't highly conventional which would be a problem when you're out searching for loot in the apocalyptic aftermath.

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## Athan

The problem is exactly what you mentioned. Nobody dislikes the P90 itself. Its just the uniqueness of the bullets. P90's major fault is this: how many civilians own a P90 and are stocking up tons of ammo around you? This precipitates lower sales of the gun to just unique government officials. This is why everyone goes for an AR or AK platform for main battle rifle and the common pistol rounds. I know people who have extra ammo on hand for friends/allies/themselves in a bad situation. None of them are of use for a poor bastard with a P90.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> The problem is exactly what you mentioned. Nobody dislikes the P90 itself. Its just the uniqueness of the bullets. P90's major fault is this: how many civilians own a P90 and are stocking up tons of ammo around you? This precipitates lower sales of the gun to just unique government officials. This is why everyone goes for an AR or AK platform for main battle rifle and the common pistol rounds. I know people who have extra ammo on hand for friends/allies/themselves in a bad situation. None of them are of use for a poor bastard with a P90.


You would definitely have to plan ahead owning one and have side arms at the ready just in case.  I think it would be a great "Oh $#@!!" gun, do what you have to do and bug out of Dodge sort of thing.  I'd always try to have a shotgun and that bug out .22 shown above as well.  The 5.7x28mm round is so devastating though.

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## Athan

> You would definitely have to plan ahead owning one and have side arms at the ready just in case.  I think it would be a great "Oh $#@!!" gun, do what you have to do and bug out of Dodge sort of thing.  I'd always try to have a shotgun and that bug out .22 shown above as well.  The 5.7x28mm round is so devastating though.


Actually it I feel it is NOT a good SHTF gun. It is simply a very good gun for combat situations in which you have a stable organized supply of ammo. In any sort of SHTF scenario/zombie apocolypse where your logistic supply is interrupted, it turns into a less than optimal investment for what they are worth. I flat out won't attempt to buy one unless there is some sort of mod for a 5.56 which I highly doubt will happen. It is a niche market gun. I can't say that about your .22's which are great investments and designed for survivor situations.

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## madengr

> I don't know how practical some of these choices are.  Gotta think weight and ammo requirements and availability.  Weight is a killer to any wandering person or merc.  The 22 is a great zombie stopping rifle. Plink away for hours on a handful of ammo, no recoil, not too loud... the slug rattles around in the brain... Reliable... tons of parts.... light, easy to carry.  Plus it's a great little hunting rifle for small game.  Standard box of shotgun shells holds what, 25 rounds? How many 22 rounds do you think will fit in a same sized box?  Thousand perhaps?  I really like the survival 22 that breaks apart and fits in the stock. Waterproof and it floats I think. Fits in any bug out bag.


Those Henry's are OK, but not great.  Poor build quality, especially the magazine, which you'll have to tweak with pliers to get reliable feeding.  Can't beat the price, but I'd be willing to pay more for something of better quality.

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## Bastiat's The Law

> Actually it I feel it is NOT a good SHTF gun. It is simply a very good gun for combat situations in which you have a stable organized supply of ammo. In any sort of SHTF scenario/zombie apocolypse where your logistic supply is interrupted, it turns into a less than optimal investment for what they are worth. I flat out won't attempt to buy one unless there is some sort of mod for a 5.56 which I highly doubt will happen. It is a niche market gun. I can't say that about your .22's which are great investments and designed for survivor situations.


I guess my definition of "Oh $#@!!" was an engagement with an enemy but not a prolonged firefight.  I don't think there would be many prolonged firefights actually, you need groups, governments, or some sense of cohesion for that.  Cohesion would be a rarity, especially initially, and if you ran into an armed group with cohesion you're buggered regardless of your sidearm.  If I'm going out might as well go out with a weapon and projectile that can defeat most body armor.

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## Kotin

Obviously I would pick a Saiga 12 guage auto loader shotgun, a Ruger Mini 30(7.62x39), and my Ruger P90 .45 pistol..

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## Bastiat's The Law

> Those Henry's are OK, but not great.  Poor build quality, especially the magazine, which you'll have to tweak with pliers to get reliable feeding.  Can't beat the price, but I'd be willing to pay more for something of better quality.


I've heard it really depends on the ammo you use, but yes its not top shelf model.  Most .22 ammo being poor quality, so I expect every few random households to be carrying that.  It would still have its uses either way, but I mainly like how it breaks down easily and concealment factor.  Could fit in any sized bag or backpack.

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## Pericles

Don't leave home without it:



I don't do shotguns:

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## Athan

Nice!

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## GunnyFreedom

Another reason I like the pistol caliber carbine is because it's a lot easier to make automatic pistol projectiles than it is to make automatic rifle projectiles.

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## Chris from Upstate NY

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5euXm5msz1Y


Good to know in case the zombies get plastic 55 gallon drums, place them on dollies, fill em with water and use them as mobile shields.  Didn't plan on that.  Fail on my part.

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## aloneinthewilderness

My picks would be based on reliability, utility, and access to ammo. I would pick a Glock 17 (9mm), a Remington 870 (12 gauge), and a Marlin 336/Winchester 94 (30-30 win). All three of them would be great against any mob, living or dead. I like the Kel-Tec KSG, but it just hasn't been out long enough for me to trust its reliability. It may be 100% reliable, but I haven't had enough time with it to learn to trust it. The 9mm and 30-30 rounds will be way more available than any obscure or hard to find caliber, including my beloved .45 ACP. A 30-30 lever action will take any medium or big game on this continent, and will be formidable against groups of flesh eaters or living scavengers.

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## AFPVet

1. Glock, Sig, 1911 (.45, .40, 9mm)
2. Shotgun (Remington 870, Mossberg 500....)
3. Semi auto rifle (.308)

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## Jamesiv1

I'll be kicking zombie ass with my Daisy Buffalo Bill Scout



Bring it on.

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## Bastiat's The Law

More about the *FNH Five seveN* and *FNH PS90*:



It's a rifle round fired from a pistol.

It easily defeats any soft body armor up to level IIIA with the right ammunition. (which is legal to buy, possess, and carry)

It basically renders soft body armor obsolete and useless.

It has a range 3-5x what a typical legacy caliber pistol has (depending on skill level)

It hits velocities up to 2600fps from a PISTOL with some ammunition, which creates a rifle like hydro-static shock bubble upon impact with soft tissue.

It holds 20rds of ammunition, or 30rds of ammunition with an extended clip that only protrudes about 1 1/2" from the pistol grip.

It has virtually no recoil whatsoever. Follow up shots are extremely fast, and very accurate.

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## acptulsa

The quadruple-barreled sword, I think.  Better than a bayonet...



Not in the case.  On top of the case.  As in, the 0.50 BAR.



The Gatling.  Like you had to ask...

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## Athan

And your not worried about the uniqueness of the ammo? lol

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## anaconda

What are suggestions for folks in CA, where there are various restrictions? I want to take a safety course, educate myself on firearms, then make some purchases. I am currently quite ignorant on the subject. What is a good starting point?

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## GunnyFreedom

> What are suggestions for folks in CA, where there are various restrictions? I want to take a safety course, educate myself on firearms, then make some purchases. I am currently quite ignorant on the subject. What is a good starting point?


You won't believe me but it's true.  Ruger 10/22

I don't know about Cali regs on detachable .22 box magazines though.

EVERYBODY should have a .22 rifle, which makes it a great started rifle.  Not to mention the ridiculously cheap ammo for plenty of practice, and the low noise/recoil keeping you from developing bad habits like bucking and flinching.

Pistol wise, probably a .357 Magnum revolver would make an excellent starter.  Can fire both .357 Mag, and .38 Special.  Although you will want a semiautomatic later (and maybe sooner) everybody should START on a pistol with a revolver because of it's blatant simplicity and ridiculous reliability.  I love me a Ruger .357 magnum revolver with an 8" barrel.  Also, .38 special rounds have less noise and recoil than .357 magnum, there again helping with the buck and the flinch while learning how to shoot.

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## anaconda

> You won't believe me but it's true.  Ruger 10/22
> 
> I don't know about Cali regs on detachable .22 box magazines though.
> 
> EVERYBODY should have a .22 rifle, which makes it a great started rifle.  Not to mention the ridiculously cheap ammo for plenty of practice, and the low noise/recoil keeping you from developing bad habits like bucking and flinching.
> 
> Pistol wise, probably a .357 Magnum revolver would make an excellent starter.  Can fire both .357 Mag, and .38 Special.  Although you will want a semiautomatic later (and maybe sooner) everybody should START on a pistol with a revolver because of it's blatant simplicity and ridiculous reliability.  I love me a Ruger .357 magnum revolver with an 8" barrel.  Also, .38 special rounds have less noise and recoil than .357 magnum, there again helping with the buck and the flinch while learning how to shoot.


Thanks. Interesting point about the learning of bad habits. Like I said, I'm super ignorant. Also, I thought the .357 was a huge gun with a big kick (Dirty Harry?). Would that give me bad habits?

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## heavenlyboy34

> The Gatling.  Like you had to ask...


A Minigun would be a whole lot more useful than a gatling.

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## GunnyFreedom

> Thanks. Interesting point about the learning of bad habits. Like I said, I'm super ignorant. Also, I thought the .357 was a huge gun with a big kick (Dirty Harry?). Would that give me bad habits?


Yes, power when you need it, but .38 special rounds are WAY lower power, and fire from the same weapon.

And it's the .44 Magnum that ir ridiculously stupid powerful, and I am pretty sure Dirty Harry carried the .44 Magnum.

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## heavenlyboy34

Grenade launcher would be useful for long distance zombie shooting.

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## Pericles

> What are suggestions for folks in CA, where there are various restrictions? I want to take a safety course, educate myself on firearms, then make some purchases. I am currently quite ignorant on the subject. What is a good starting point?


M-1 Garand, although I've heard the bullet button problem is fixable post SHTF, but there is some risk involved in having the parts required to do that would be my guess.

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## GunnyFreedom

> M-1 Garand, although I've heard the bullet button problem is fixable post SHTF, but there is some risk involved in having the parts required to do that would be my guess.


Every American should have an M-1 Garand.

Just not for their very first ever firearm.

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## Anti Federalist

Already got 'em.

Simple, accurate, available.

Remington 11/87 - 12 Ga. Modified choke.

DSA built FN/FAL - .308

Berreta 92SBF/M9 - 9mm

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## anaconda

> Yes, power when you need it, but .38 special rounds are WAY lower power, and fire from the same weapon.
> 
> And it's the .44 Magnum that ir ridiculously stupid powerful, and I am pretty sure Dirty Harry carried the .44 Magnum.


Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks for the additional info.

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## anaconda

> I've heard the bullet button problem is fixable post SHTF, but there is some risk involved in having the parts required to do that would be my guess.


I have no idea what this means.

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## GunnyFreedom

> I have no idea what this means.


Don't worry about it.  The M-1 Garand neither has a pistol grip nor a foldable stock, nor a detachable box magazine, so it does not need a bullet button to be CA legal.

Because CA law forbids the use of detachable magazines on rifles that have pistol grips or a folding stock, such rifles are converted to make the magazine 'fixed' (unable to be detached by finger) but you can use a 'tool' (the point of a round "bullet") to press the magazine release and swap mags.

It's a sidestep to the silly law, but completely irrelevant to the Garand.  Even the M-1 Carbine with it's detachable box mag is immune to the bullet button nonsense as long as it has a fixed stock, because it does not have a pistol grip, so you can use the normal detachable magazine release.

You wouldn't have to worry about bullet buttons unless you got yourself a cosmetically designated assault rifle.

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## anaconda

> Don't worry about it.  The M-1 Garand neither has a pistol grip nor a foldable stock, nor a detachable box magazine, so it does not need a bullet button to be CA legal.
> 
> Because CA law forbids the use of detachable magazines on rifles that have pistol grips or a folding stock, such rifles are converted to make the magazine 'fixed' (unable to be detached by finger) but you can use a 'tool' (the point of a round "bullet") to press the magazine release and swap mags.
> 
> It's a sidestep to the silly law, but completely irrelevant to the Garand.  Even the M-1 Carbine with it's detachable box mag is immune to the bullet button nonsense as long as it has a fixed stock, because it does not have a pistol grip, so you can use the normal detachable magazine release.
> 
> You wouldn't have to worry about bullet buttons unless you got yourself a cosmetically designated assault rifle.


Can I just go to Oregon or Nevada and buy stuff? What about someone who moves from another state to CA? Do they have to somehow register their guns in their new state of residence? Or get rid of them? I saw a lot of guns on the Ruger site tonight that were not CA approved but I did not know why. Things like a 5 shot pistol even, I think.

OK, how about this...would this be a good SHTF weapon (see link below)? It has the word "California" in the model name. I wonder if this means it's tailor-made for CA laws?:

http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.as...E%20Adjustable

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Can I just go to Oregon or Nevada and buy stuff? What about someone who moves from another state to CA? Do they have to somehow register their guns in their new state of residence? Or get rid of them? I saw a lot of guns on the Ruger site tonight that were not CA approved but I did not know why. Things like a 5 shot pistol even, I think.
> 
> OK, how about this...would this be a good SHTF weapon (see link below)? It has the word "California" in the model name. I wonder if this means it's tailor-made for CA laws?:
> 
> http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.as...E%20Adjustable



Importing Firearms into California

Published by the Law Offices of Bruce Colodny

Revised & Copyright © 2012


GunLaw.com

Importation By New California Residents
Handguns
Unless carried openly, which is lawful but not recommended, handguns transported into California must be unloaded and either in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or utility compartment of a vehicle. 
Any person who moves into California as a new resident and who brings any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is considered to be a "Personal Handgun Importer". Within sixty days the new resident must do one of the following:


1.   Complete and submit a NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT form FD 4010A, downloadable at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf , to the California Department  of Justice Bureau of Firearms together with the processing fee indicated on the form.


2.   Sell or transfer the handgun to a California licensed firearms dealer, or to another person through a California dealer, 


3.   Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California police or sheriff's department.


CAUTION:  Some varieties of semiautomatic pistols cannot be brought into California by new residents because they have been classified as Assault Weapons, see California Assault Weapons below.
Failure to report imported handguns as required could result in criminal prosecution for violation of Penal Code Section 12072(g), a misdemeanor, with a possible penalty of up to six months imprisonment in the county jail, or by a fine not exceeding $1,000, or by both such imprisonment and fine. In addition, the importer should expect forfeiture of handguns not reported.  


Shotguns And Rifles
Presently California does not require new residents to report rifles or shotguns.  However, not all rifles and shotguns are importable.
Those semi-automatic centerfire rifles and shotguns classified as assault weapons in California cannot be imported under most circumstances.  See California Assault Weapons, below. 
Cartridge shotguns with a barrel length under 18" or an overall length under 26" are generally not importable, and possession may be a felony under both California and Federal law.
Cartridge rifles with a barrel length under 16" or an overall length under 26" are generally not importable, and possession may be a felony under both California and Federal law.
Cartridge rifles with a bore diameter greater than .50" are generally not importable, except for big bore sporting rifles.  Modern big bore rifles other than sporting rifles are classified as "Destructive Devices".   Possession may be a felony under both California and Federal law.
Rifles which can fire the .50 Browning Machine Gun (.50 BMG) cartridge are not importable because such rifles have been classified as Assault Weapons.  
A rifle with a tubular magazine capable of holding more than ten cartridges is also not importable, unless the rifle is .22 caliber, or the magazine is contained in a lever action rifle.  For applicable penalties, see Large Capacity Magazines, below.
To voluntarily report ownership of a rifle or shotgun the owner may complete and submit a FIREARM OWNERSHIP RECORD form FD 4542A, downloadable at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf , to the California Department of Justice Firearms Bureau together with the processing fee indicated on the form.  This same form may also be used to voluntarily report ownership of handguns.


California Assault Weapons 
If you are NOT planning to import any semi-automatic centerfire rifles, any semiautomatic pistols, any semiautomatic shotguns, any shotgun with a revolving cylinder, or any rifle which can fire the .50 BMG cartridge, you may skip this section, otherwise pay very careful attention. 
Before you move to California you must make certain that you are not planning to import any firearm which may be considered to be Assault Weapon as defined by California law. 
Importation of an Assault Weapon is a felony which, upon conviction, shall be punished by four, six or eight years in state prison. 
In the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 (AWCA) the California Legislature defined Assault Weapons by listing specific makes and models. Those named firearms remain Assault Weapons and cannot be lawfully imported into California.  Far more firearms were classified as Assault Weapons by certain generic characteristics effective January 1, 2000. To determine if a firearm which you are thinking of importing may be a prohibited Assault Weapon, carefully compare the characteristics of your firearm to the statutory language:
California Penal Code section 12276.1  Assault weapon, further definition.
1.   Any semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following; 
A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
     A thumbhole stock,
     A folding or telescoping stock,
     A grenade launcher or flare launcher,
     A flash suppressor,
     A forward pistol grip.
2.   A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
3.  A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
4.  A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and and one of the following;
     A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
     A second handgrip.
     A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
     The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside the pistol grip. 
5.   A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
6.   A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
     A folding or telescoping stock.
     A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
7.   A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
8.   Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
Further, California Penal Code § 12278 specifies that any rife that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge is an Assault Weapon, and therefore such rifles are generally not importable.
The California Department of Justice offers their Assault Weapons Identification Guide in the Forms and Publications list at http://ag/ca/gov/firearms/forms/ .  However, if you have any concerns that some of the firearms you want to bring into California may be classified as Assault Weapons, consult a qualified California attorney before such firearms are transported to the State.


Olympic Pistol Exemptions
A few makes and models of precision target pistols which accept the magazine outside of the pistol grip have been exempted from Assault Weapon regulation to permit their use in National Rifle Association, International Shooting Union (ISU), and Olympic competition.  These specifically named firearms are chambered for one of the three calibers used in such competitive shooting, .22 short, .22 long rifle, or .32 S&W Long. The original list of eighteen exempted pistols has been widely expanded at the request of USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting in the United States. For the list as amended go to http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/op.pdf


Large Capacity Magazines 
A "large-capacity magazine", meaning any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, is generally not importable, but the prohibition does not apply to a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds, a .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device, or a tubular magazine that is contained in a lever action firearm.  Importation of a large-capacity magazine as defined may be punished as a misdemeanor with up to one year imprisonment in the county jail, or as a felony with a sentence of up to three years in state prison.  


Restricted Importation Of Handguns  
Most of the handguns which may be legally imported into California for sale or to be kept for sale are handguns of those specific makes, models, types, barrel length and caliber presently listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale see http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
These handguns have all been submitted for testing and certification by manufacturers or importers who are required to pay an annual fee to renew the listing. Each variety of handgun certified has passed firing, safety and drop testing.   Certain single-action revolvers and single-shot pistols are exempt from certification.  
Many specific makes and models of target pistols suitable for use in Olympic competition have been exempted from both the "unsafe handguns"  and assault weapons provisions. For the latest complete list see http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/op.pdf 
California also allows importation of certain handguns of unusual interest to collectors which are classified as curios or relics by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).  To read the ATF's explanation of curio or relic status and for lists of specific firearms which have been classified as curios or relics, refer to the U.S. Department of Justice publication FIREARMS CURIOS OR RELICS LIST, ATF P 5300.11.  This publication may be obtained by phoning the ATF Distribution Center at 1-703-455-7801 or go to http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/   to download the FIREARMS CURIOS OR RELICS LIST and Updates issued since the list was published.


Importation By California Licensed Collectors
If a Californian who has a Type 03 Collector of Curios or Relics Federal Firearms License (03 FFL) acquires a handgun classified as a curio or relic from outside the state, within five days of transporting the firearm into the state, the collector must submit a Form FD 4100A CURIO OR RELIC HANDGUN REPORT, downloadable at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/curioapp.pdf , together with the required fee for each handgun.


Importation Through California Licensed Dealers
Before you commit to purchasing a cartridge firearm from an out of state source, make certain that a Federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL) qualified to do business in California may lawfully receive the firearm and transfer it to you.  Effective 1 July 2008, every FFL dealer wherever located who wishes to transfer a firearm to any FFL dealer in California must first register with the Firearms Bureau of the California Department of Justice, and before shipping or delivering a firearm, must obtain an authorization number from the Firearms Bureau.  No approval number is required for a firearm which is being transferred to a California FFL by a private party.
This article was drafted by Eric H. Archer, Of Counsel to the Law Offices of Bruce Colodny in selected firearms matters since 1993.  Mr. Archer is admitted to practice law in California and New Jersey.

Disclaimer: The information contained within, is subject to change as a result of future court decisions and/or new legislation. If you have questions concerning a specific item you should consult a qualified California attorney.

----------


## anaconda

> Importing Firearms into California
> 
> Published by the Law Offices of Bruce Colodny
> 
> Revised & Copyright © 2012
> 
> 
> GunLaw.com
> 
> ...


Thanks! This will make a great reference. I gave it about a five minute glance over for starters just now. So, I wonder why something like the following is unacceptable in CA?

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/specSheets/3718.html

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## chudrockz

California sounds like it is governed by a bunch of complete and total nanny-state morons. Like, even worse than Minnesota. I didn't think that was possible.

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## LibertasPraesidium

*Situation*

The following weapons are for two possible scenarios, first some mutated form of virus or effect that disconnects the human brain higher functions to primal instinctive functions and allows only one to use the body for survival.  Depending on the affect the second set of "zombies" could be a bit deadlier. Unless the first were more violent.

The second situation would be a collapse either complete or partial of the surrounding or entire "established system" either by nuclear disaster, economic collapse, or insolvency of governance.    I believe with proper fortifications and communications set up one could conceivably control access to a large enough area to survive either scenario.



*Rifle/shotgun/grenade launcher*
Xm-8 Battle rifle
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0...04_XM8,00.html

*Hand gun*
Kimber-Raptor 2
http://www.genitron.com/Handgun-Revi...mber-Raptor-II

*Home defense/scouting*
Foster-Miller TALON
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON


If I could acquire these, they would be what I would want, otherwise I will buy what is available, cheap, and has enough stopping power. 

I have a short sword, am going to be getting a pole axe, and either crossbow or blowdart gun.    just to be proactive I would also be purchasing chemicals that would assist with rapid decomposition.  Acids and other things when applied correctly can be a great friend.

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## VanBummel

> just to be proactive I would also be purchasing chemicals that would assist with rapid decomposition.  Acids and other things when applied correctly can be a great friend.




I'll be staying out of your territory.



On topic:  Great thread, I'm going to need to buy a handgun soon for home defense and possible ccw, so I appreciate all the recommendations!

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## Athan

Guys, I'm sad. I just found out I have no after market options to add a collapseable stock/pistol grip for my Nitro Mag Tactical.


How am I going to be "Alpha as $#@!" in Texas during Zombieland without being able to make my tactical into tacticool like all the other mall ninja bitches?! Zombies gonna laugh man. They're gonna laugh!

----------


## Shane Harris

> I'll be staying out of your territory.
> 
> 
> 
> On topic:  Great thread, I'm going to need to buy a handgun soon for home defense and possible ccw, so I appreciate all the recommendations!


agreed. great thread. great br ba reference as well

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## Deborah K

> What is this bull$#@! about a Zombie Apocalypse?  Are we 8 years old or something?  I will entertain a real life scenario though.  Lets call it the hungry people breaking down your door cause the dollar collapsed and they are starving apocalypse.  
> 
> In that case my picks would be a Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with 00 buck, an M14 in 7.62 Nato, and a Sig P226 in .357 Sig.


How dare you insult the Center for Disease Control!!!   LOL!  http://emergency.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies.asp

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## Deborah K

This can go in a back pack too.

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## anaconda

> This can go in a back pack too.


Is that California "approved?"

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## Deborah K

Who gives a crap, if you get my drift...

Actually, I saw this at a gun show here in Cali a couple years ago.

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## Deborah K

> Is that California "approved?"


Here's the link if you're interested:  http://nemesisarms.com/index.php/products

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## TomtheTinker

Ill be rolling with my s&w tactical 9mm, bushmaster ar15 and of course my recurve bow. Also can't forget my k-bar zombie war sword

My gf gets my mossberg 500 in 20 guage and a 10/22 in her pack.

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## cucucachu0000

for any type of apocalypse 9mm glock 19 or  springfield xd , then for the rifle gotta go with the ruger 10/22, and 12 ga mossberg 500 for the shotgun. going for reliability with the guns and access to the most common ammo.

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## IronPatriot

Glock 19, Remington 870, and an AK47 for me. If I had the cash, I'd love to get a Glock 21 to compliment my Glock 30, and an AR, just because. It's too bad we can only pick three guns in this thread.

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## Pericles

> Glock 19, Remington 870, and an AK47 for me. If I had the cash, I'd love to get a Glock 21 to compliment my Glock 30, and an AR, just because. It's too bad we can only pick three guns in this thread.


If you make the correct initial decisions, you may expect more weapons to come into your possession.

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## Athan

> If you make the correct initial decisions, you may expect more weapons to come into your possession.


Expand on that. I'm pretty sure your not talking about taking out an armory though.

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## Shane Harris

my favorite top shot contender haha quite the collection

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## Pericles

> Expand on that. I'm pretty sure your not talking about taking out an armory though.


There is a relationship between ammunition type, weapons, and tactics. One of the three alone will not ensure success, the correct combination of the 3 makes a good chance for success possible.

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## GunnyFreedom

> There is a relationship between ammunition type, weapons, and tactics. One of the three alone will not ensure success, the correct combination of the 3 makes a good chance for success possible.


I really want to get a bolty .300 WSM loaded with M2 AP projectiles for hard targets.

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## Athan

> There is a relationship between ammunition type, weapons, and tactics. One of the three alone will not ensure success, the correct combination of the 3 makes a good chance for success possible.


I'm savy with the ammo and weapon types. Are you talking about squad/overwatch tactics?

----------


## papitosabe

a photon phaser is probably best for a zombie apocalypse ..  You actually have to be real close so I hear its best to use baby goat brains as a scent to lure them in... And if you can somehow kill the leader, which I doubt, because he will be heavily guarded, that would actually take them all out at once.  

of course, I'm joking as I'm certain the OP was.  I'm pretty sure he's not trying to turn this forum into those other looney sites.

----------


## youngbuck

> a photon phaser is probably best for a zombie apocalypse ..  You actually have to be real close so I hear its best to use baby goat brains as a scent to lure them in... And if you can somehow kill the leader, which I doubt, because he will be heavily guarded, that would actually take them all out at once.  
> 
> of course, I'm joking as I'm certain the OP was.  I'm pretty sure he's not trying to turn this forum into those other looney sites.


 What are you talking about?  The only thing that's looney is not accepting the real danger that a zombie apocalypse poses to you and your loved ones.

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## papitosabe

> What are you talking about?  The only thing that's looney is not accepting the real danger that a zombie apocalypse poses to you and your loved ones.


by zombie apocalypse are you speaking of the living dead??  Or is this some knew saying that I don't know about...  If this is regarding what I think it is, some of y'all really need to limit the Alex Jones and David Icke craziness to about an hour a day.

----------


## papitosabe

also remember that these threads get passed around all kinds of other forums... Last thing we need is this to be known as a kook forum.

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## Athan

It's a humor thread. Get some.

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## Pericles

> I'm savy with the ammo and weapon types. Are you talking about squad/overwatch tactics?


Yes - ultimately at the end of the action, you need to be "in possession of the battlefield" to scarf up anything useful, and deter any survivors that got away. When well executed, each engagement leaves you better off than you were before. The standard was set by this guy: Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck

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## bolil

1911, M14/m1a1, RPG.

----------


## papitosabe

> It's a humor thread. Get some.


read my first post... I've got plenty.. Unfortunately, there are some that believe in a possible zombie apocalypse believe it or not

----------


## Athan

> read my first post... I've got plenty.. Unfortunately, there are some that believe in a possible zombie apocalypse believe it or not


*le sigh* Touche.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> read my first post... I've got plenty.. Unfortunately, there are some that believe in a possible zombie apocalypse believe it or not


Indeed, such as (for example) the United States Center for Disease Control (CDC): http://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmat...ie-apocalypse/

----------


## Deborah K

Check this out - this gun is featured in the motion picture 'The Bourne Legacy'.  It's in the trailer!





> This can go in a back pack too.

----------


## Tod

For when you have a limited supply of bullets....

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## papitosabe

> Indeed, such as (for example) the United States Center for Disease Control (CDC): http://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmat...ie-apocalypse/


ahhhhhhh.. Good ole gov't warning me of the potential boogey man.. Never ceases to amaze me..

----------


## VanBummel

Here is a quick video by two guys from Moss Pawn in Georgia covering the 5 essential guns to own in their opinion.  They have a lot of videos on Youtube, and they seem to really know their stuff.




Summary:
1.)Handgun: Glock 19
2.)Light Rifle: Ruger 10/22
3.)Shotgun: Mossberg 500
4.)Assault Rifle: Bushmaster XM15-E2S
5.)Economy High Powered Rifle: Mosin-Nagant M91/30

----------


## Teamronin

People Love this one!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320999537552...84.m1555.l2649

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## ClydeCoulter

FPS Russia's choices, and intro to new series

----------


## mello

I think what's more important is to have A LOT of ammo because if the apocalypse starts there are not going to be any gun stores selling anything. I buy Magtech 9mm in bulk from bulkammo.com & have not had a problem with that ammo at all.

----------


## compromise

> FPS Russia's choices, and intro to new series


This guy is awesome. Cool that he's a libertarian too, he made some pro-Ron Paul tweets a while back.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

My 'conventional' list (guns the average person could acquire)
Mini-14 beta mags, Glock 22 extended mags, Smith and Wesson M&P 1522 (22 LR on a AR platform)

If I had unlimited money/ammunition
M134 minigun, Mark 19 grenade launcher, and last but not least the 'Ma Deuce' (Browning M2 HB)

----------


## GunnyFreedom

If I had unlimited money and ammo, (kinda like video game easy mode) my primary go-to would undoubtedly be the AA-12 with the full drum mag, and a spare box mag of 12gu grenades.  NOTHING would get within 200 yds that I didn't want to get in.  Then for long range, a Benelli R-1 with every upper that fits it, so I can use pretty much any ammo I pick up.

But then again, I'm not Bill Gates...

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> If I had unlimited money and ammo, (kinda like video game easy mode) my primary go-to would undoubtedly be the AA-12 with the full drum mag, and a spare box mag of 12gu grenades.  NOTHING would get within 200 yds that I didn't want to get in.  Then for long range, a Benelli R-1 with every upper that fits it, so I can use pretty much any ammo I pick up.
> 
> But then again, I'm not Bill Gates...


I was watching 'Sons of Guns' the other day and they had a rifled shotgun barrel. They hit a 1x1ft satchel 100 yards away with a slug. The AA12 would be unstoppable with a rifled barrel. It's a shame my finances are such I could barely afford my M14.

----------


## Toureg89

2 and a half works for me...

Glock, full-sized, 40SW 2 mags x 15 rnds, 1 mag x 25 rnds = 55 rnds 

AR15 with 556 SBR upper 9 mags x 30 rnds, 1 surefir mag x 100 rnds = 370 rnds 

shotgun satchel with .50 beowulf AR upper, 5 AR mags x 10 rnds = 50 rnds.

----------


## RonZeplin

Kahr MK9 stainless 9mm

M1 Garand
Winchester 1300 pump shotgun

----------


## presence

> You will all die in the zombie apocolypse.
> 
> Everyone knows you have to cut their heads off.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Does anyone have any experience with the Armscor/Rock Island .22 TCM / 9mm 1911-A2?

----------


## TomtheTinker

I never heard of it until now.thanks to you I have another gun on my list.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> I never heard of it until now.thanks to you I have another gun on my list.


Check out the youtube balistics tests (amatuer) on the thing (comparing it to other calibers).  I have one on layaway...working to get the bucks to finish paying it off (before 18 round clips are banned).
2000+ fps from a dang pistola.

----------


## ClydeCoulter

> I never heard of it until now.thanks to you I have another gun on my list.


On your list to purchase, right?  Not for a ban list or anything

----------


## ClydeCoulter

Dang, that's one loud fire breathing round.  Very little kick though, strange.  Going to put more rounds through it this week to test accuracy etc...

----------

