# Lifestyles & Discussion > Peace Through Religion >  My first Divine Liturgy experience.

## heavenlyboy34

It was a really amazing experience and I’m still kind of taking it all in.  I’ll fill in anything I forget later.
So, I arrived and a nice fellow helped me find a place to stand.  In this church, there are pews, so I stood there, just following everyone’s lead.  During prayer, we kneeled while the priest led the service.  There are little speakers on the floor so he can be heard from every part of the church.  The choir sang intermittently in gorgeous 4 part harmony that was better in tune than any church choir I’ve heard in person. (except perhaps the Phoenix Symphony’s choir)
Later on, everyone sat in the pews.  I noticed priests carrying incense down the aisles.  It was really beautiful, and didn’t bother my allergies at all. 
Then there was the eucharist.  Not being formally Orthodox yet, I didn’t take that, but I was given a piece of blessed bread. 
Afterward was fellowship, and I met the priest and several of the deacons.  We discussed my interest in the Orthodox faith, how I came to it, etc.  I was then invited to the introduction to orthodoxy class (which I plan to attend).  I was rather clumsy in speaking at that time though, as the new experience of liturgy was very vivid and fresh in my mind.
After that, I went for fellowship.  I met a fellow named Phil at a table with his friends and his mother.  During our get to know you chat, I mentioned my interest in Russian language and culture, and Phil told me he is Russian.  Then his mother Ludmilla speaks up to introduce herself in a very thick, distinct Russian accent.  We had a brief exchange in Russian, and Ludmilla left.  I was left at the table with Phil and his friends.  They’re very nice, but mostly talk about silly movies and such.  lolz Phil was interested in my work, so I gave him my url.  It’s nice to know some native speakers to practice with. 

Special thanks to TER, eduardo, and others who have helped me along this path. ~hugs~

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## RJB

Awesome.  I had to wait a few days to post my experience.  Like you said, I also feel clumsy trying to put words to what the body, mind, and soul experience in the presence of the full Trinity, the Communion of Saints, and the Choirs of Angelic Hosts.

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## TER

Glory to God for all things!  
I feel rejuvenated and spiritually recharged after each liturgy, and attending gives me the hope, courage, and strength to face the week ahead and all it's difficulties.  I pray both of you find the same benefit in your attending and participation, and that the Holy Spirit fills you and guides you in all things.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Glory to God for all things!  
> *I feel rejuvenated and spiritually recharged after each liturgy, and attending gives me the hope, courage, and strength to face the week ahead and all it's difficulties*.  I pray both of you find the same benefit in your attending and participation, and that the Holy Spirit fills you and guides you in all things.


I do as well!  The music, atmosphere, liturgical chant, etc-it's all very inspiring in a very unique way that I haven't experienced in even the most elaborate protestant churches.

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## Deborah K

Inspiring.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Awesome.  I had to wait a few days to post my experience.  *Like you said, I also feel clumsy trying to put words* to what the body, mind, and soul experience in the presence of the full Trinity, the Communion of Saints, and the Choirs of Angelic Hosts.


Speaking of that, I am reminded of my conversation with deacon Abrahams (IIR his name properly).  He asked about my current church and I called it "baptist" when I meant to say "non-denominational".  lolz  :/  It's funny now, but was quite embarrassing at the time.

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## eduardo89

If you ever get the chance you should also check out the Tridentine Mass, I think it's equally as powerful. There are quite a few churches that offer it in Phoenix:

St Thomas the Apostle Church
   2312 E. Campbell Ave.
   Phoenix, AZ 85016

St. Catherine of Siena
 6200 S. Central Ave.
   Phoenix, AZ 85042

Queen of the Holy Rosary Traditional Roman Catholic Church
2533 W. Myrtle Ave.
   Phoenix, AZ 85051

Our Lady of Quito Chapel
9009 S. 18th St.
   Phoenix, AZ 85040

Our Lady of Sorrows Church & Retreat House (This church belongs to the Society of St. Puis X currently *not* in communion with Rome, but reconciliation talks are ongoing)
750 E. Baseline Rd.
   Phoenix, AZ 85040

St Thomas the Apostle Church
   2312 E. Campbell Ave.
   Phoenix, AZ 85016

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## heavenlyboy34

> If you ever get the chance you should also check out the Tridentine Mass, I think it's equally as powerful. There are quite a few churches that offer it in Phoenix:
> 
> St Thomas the Apostle Church
>    2312 E. Campbell Ave.
>    Phoenix, AZ 85016
> 
> St. Catherine of Siena
>  6200 S. Central Ave.
>    Phoenix, AZ 85042
> ...


+rep ~hugs~

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## RJB

> If you ever get the chance you should also check out the Tridentine Mass, I think it's equally as powerful. There are quite a few churches that offer it in Phoenix:


The Byzantine Catholic rite I hear is really good as well.  I've never attended, but the friends I know fell in love.

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## eduardo89

> The Byzantine Catholic rite I hear is really good as well.  I've never attended, but the friends I know fell in love.


I went to a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church for Christmas Mass a few years with my family when I was younger. They use the Byzantine Rite Divine Liturgy. It's very similar to the Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

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## Matthew5

It gladdens me to hear of your experience! Mine was very similar and it can be very overwhelming at first. I came from working at a non denominational church to my first Divine Liturgy and I was in awe the whole time. I was afraid I wouldn't connect with the people, but I quickly found out how "normal" everyone is. I expected a bunch of fundamental monastics, but found nothing but love...the Holy Spirit is certainly present!

Keep us abreast of your journey, sounds like you're on "the right path" (sorry, bad Orthodox pun lol).

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## heavenlyboy34

> It gladdens me to hear of your experience! Mine was very similar and it can be very overwhelming at first. I came from working at a non denominational church to my first Divine Liturgy and I was in awe the whole time. I was afraid I wouldn't connect with the people, but I quickly found out how "normal" everyone is. I expected a bunch of fundamental monastics, but found nothing but love...the Holy Spirit is certainly present!
> 
> Keep us abreast of your journey, sounds like you're on "the right path" (sorry, bad Orthodox pun lol).


  Okay.  I plan on beginning catechumen this week-which my parish calls "introduction to Orthodoxy".  As I understand it, the conversion process takes about a year-varying on the various factors involved in any individual's journey.  (you're right, that was a bad pun  but I appreciate your positive attitude ~hugs~)

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## Matthew5

> Okay.  I plan on beginning catechumen this week-which my parish calls "introduction to Orthodoxy".  As I understand it, the conversion process takes about a year-varying on the various factors involved in any individual's journey.  (you're right, that was a bad pun  but I appreciate your positive attitude ~hugs~)


Yes, most Bishops prefer an Inquirer to go through the entire liturgical cycle of the church year. However, depending on what experience you bring and your knowledge of "the basics", they will shorten it some times. Our Bishop shortened it to 7 months, but we had a lot of one-on-one time with our priest as we were the only two students.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Yes, most Bishops prefer an Inquirer to go through the entire liturgical cycle of the church year. However, depending on what experience you bring and your knowledge of "the basics", they will shorten it some times. Our Bishop shortened it to 7 months, but we had a lot of one-on-one time with our priest as we were the only two students.


Well, tonight was my first class.  Pretty interesting, and only a few other students.   A lot of comparing/contrasting Orthodoxy/Economia and Catholic Scholasticism.  Also dealt with salvation, Grace, and a few other basics.  Reading assignment-Romans 5&6. 

ETA: I noticed the old ladies who have been in the church a long time can cross themselves after prayer much quicker than I.  Totally jealous. :/  lolz...I'll get it eventually.

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## TER

The Holy Eucharist


Rev. Thomas Fitzgerald


_"We knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth, for surely there is no such splendor or beauty anywhere on earth. We cannot describe it to you; we only know that God dwells there among men and that their Service surpasses the worship of all other places..."_


In the latter part of the tenth century, Vladimir the Prince of Kiev sent envoys to various Christian centers to study their form of worship. These are the words the envoys uttered when they reported their presence at the celebration of the Eucharist in the Great Church of Holy Wisdom in Constantinople. The profound experience expressed by the Russian envoys has been one shared by many throughout the centuries who have witnessed for the first time the beautiful and inspiring Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church.

The Holy Eucharist is the oldest experience of Christian Worship as well as the most distinctive. Eucharist comes from the Greek word which means thanksgiving. In a particular sense, the word describes the most important form of the Church's attitude toward all of life. The origin of the Eucharist is traced to the Last Supper at which Christ instructed His disciples to offer bread and wine in His memory. The Eucharist is the most distinctive event of Orthodox worship because in it the Church gathers to remember and celebrate the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ and, thereby, to participate in the mystery of Salvation.

In the Orthodox Church, the Eucharist is also known as the Divine Liturgy. The word liturgy means people's work; this description serves to emphasize the corporate character of the Eucharist. When an Orthodox attends the Divine Liturgy, it is not as an isolated person who comes simply to hear a sermon.

Rather, he comes as a member of the Community of Faith who participates in the very purpose of the Church, which is the Worship of the Holy Trinity. Therefore, the Eucharist is truly the center of the life of the Church and the principal means of spiritual development, both for the individual Christian and the Church as a whole. Not only does the Eucharist embody and express the Christian faith in a unique way, but it also enhances and deepens our faith in the Trinity. This sacrament-mystery is the experience toward which all the other activities of the Church are directed and from which they receive their direction.

The Eucharist, the principal sacrament mystery of the Orthodox Church, is not so much a text to be studied, but rather an experience of communion with the Living God in which prayer , music, gestures, the material creation, art and architecture come into full orchestration. The Eucharist is a celebration of faith which touches not only the mind but also the emotions and the senses.

Throughout the centuries, Christians have seen many dimensions in the Eucharist. The various titles which have come to describe the rite bear witness to the richness of its meaning. The Eucharist has been known as the Holy offering, the Holy Mysteries, the Mystic Supper, and the Holy Communion. The Orthodox Church recognizes the many facets of the Eucharist and wisely refuses to over-emphasize one element to the detirement of the others. In so doing, Orthodoxy has clearly avoided reducing the Eucharist to a simple memorial of the Last Supper which is only occasionally observed. Following the teachings of both Scripture and Tradition, the Orthodox Church believes that Christ is truly present with His people in the celebration of the Holy Eucharist. The Eucharistic gifts of bread and wine become for us His Body and His Blood. We affirm that these Holy Gifts are transfigured into the first fruits of the New Creation in which ultimately God will be "all in all".

As it is celebrated today, the Divine Liturgy is a product of historical development. The fundamental core of the liturgy dates from the time of Christ and the Apostles. To this, prayers, hymns, and gestures have been added throughout the centuries. The liturgy achieved a basic framework by the ninth century.

There are three forms of the Eucharist presently in use in the Orthodox Church:  (more at link)

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## TER

> Well, tonight was my first class.  Pretty interesting, and only a few other students.   A lot of comparing/contrasting Orthodoxy/Economia and Catholic Scholasticism.  Also dealt with salvation, Grace, and a few other basics.  Reading assignment-Romans 5&6. 
> 
> ETA: I noticed the old ladies who have been in the church a long time can cross themselves after prayer much quicker than I.  Totally jealous. :/  lolz...I'll get it eventually.


lol!  in their old age, they probably feel like they have little time left and have to get in any as many prayers and prostations they can!  As for you, don't rush!

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## TER



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## TER

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## Matthew5

> ETA: I noticed the old ladies who have been in the church a long time can cross themselves after prayer much quicker than I.  Totally jealous. :/  lolz...I'll get it eventually.


Don't be jealous, slowly shows much more reverence for the action than robotically rushing through it. You'll notice many priest do it slowly and our priest encouraged us to do the same. May you always be thinking when you make the sign of the cross!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Don't be jealous, slowly shows much more reverence for the action than robotically rushing through it. You'll notice many priest do it slowly and our priest encouraged us to do the same. May you always be thinking when you make the sign of the cross!


Thanks.   I was half joking when I said I was jealous.  I'm not naturally patient-especially with myself, so this whole process is trying but rewarding.     I have a somewhat similar relationship to my karate-I feel that my technique tends to be poor and my progress slow, but my sempais disagree.

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## eduardo89

> Don't be jealous, slowly shows much more reverence for the action than robotically rushing through it. You'll notice many priest do it slowly and our priest encouraged us to do the same. May you always be thinking when you make the sign of the cross!


I agree with this. I watched a great youtube video about this sort of thing, not just about doing the sign of the cross slowly, deliberately, and with reverence, but also talking about the Catholic custom of genuflecting when in front of the Tabernacle. I'll try and find it because it explained why we shouldn't rush things.

You gain nothing from robotically doing actions, you should slow down and contemplate them. Not just when doing the sign of the cross or genuflecting, but importantly during prayer, while following the Mass/Divine Liturgy, when confessing your sins, etc.

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## Matthew5

> I agree with this. I watched a great youtube video about this sort of thing, not just about doing the sign of the cross slowly, deliberately, and with reverence, but also talking about the Catholic custom of genuflecting when in front of the Tabernacle. I'll try and find it because it explained why we shouldn't rush things.
> 
> You gain nothing from robotically doing actions, you should slow down and contemplate them. Not just when doing the sign of the cross or genuflecting, but importantly during prayer, while following the Mass/Divine Liturgy, when confessing your sins, etc.


+rep (I wish) and all good points. One of the things I try to do is remember when passing in front of the altar or royal doors any time I'm in the nave. I even feel weird turning my back to it...not out of some religious obligation, but I try to do that to remind me of the holiness of the space. 

Bless those elderly parishioners, but I'm not one for sitting and chatting much when in the nave either. I'd much rather do it in the narthex. Again, just my personal method of remembrance.  

All that we do in our lives and while at the temple are not some meaningless filler that has been added, we all know mass/divine liturgy is long enough.  Everything has meaning and it's important not to lose that meaning.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I agree with this. I watched a great youtube video about this sort of thing, not just about doing the sign of the cross slowly, deliberately, and with reverence, but also talking about the Catholic custom of genuflecting when in front of the Tabernacle. I'll try and find it because it explained why we shouldn't rush things.
> 
> You gain nothing from robotically doing actions, you should slow down and contemplate them. Not just when doing the sign of the cross or genuflecting, but importantly during prayer, while following the Mass/Divine Liturgy, when confessing your sins, etc.





> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to eduardo89 again.


 :/   ~hugs~ Спасибо.

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## heavenlyboy34

Things went more smoothly this week.  Nothing new to add except that my ride was on time this week  so I heard all of Dr Salamy's sermon.  Made sure to be more thoughtful and deliberate in prayer and crossing myself as others above have mentioned^^.  If y'all are interested in what happens in the future, I'll keep this updated.  If not and it's boring or whatever, let me know and I'll just keep it in my blog until something major happens.  ~hugs~

ETA: adding more per RJB's request.  This week's epistle text was Gallations 2:16-20 and the gospel was Luke 12:16-21  .Chris discussed it from the Orthodox perspective.  I always get the sense that the Orthodox take scripture much more seriously than my previous non-denominational ministers.   
It seems that the choir was even better this week.  Definitely the most in-tune choir I've heard in person except perhaps the Phoenix Symphony chorus.  The lack of instruments seems to make the text more powerful.  
Chris has started a challenge to read the New Testament from Matthew 1-Revelation 22 a bit at a time.  I decided I will do it. 
ETA 2: The likes of FF would've been horrified that I kiss the icons along with my fellow parishoners    ...but too bad. :P
(more to come if I can think of anything worth noting)
ETA 3: Forgot to mention that a big part of the sermon was the orthodox view of the Trinity.  Rather reminded me of Augustine's efforts to teach the subject to the Pelagians.  It seems quite basic to me, but it's always good to reflect on these things from different POVs.

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## RJB

> If y'all are interested in what happens in the future, I'll keep this updated.  If not and it's boring or whatever, let me know and I'll just keep it in my blog until something major happens.  ~hugs~


This is good.  This is actual experience vs opinion.  You're further along than me, but it reminds me of the excitement I had going from atheist to not just the realization that God exist, but that he loves me!  Keep posting.

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## TER

Please do post!  Your journey is inspirational to those who have walked in similar steps before as well as those who are just beginning.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Please do post!  Your journey is inspirational to those who have walked in similar steps before as well as those who are just beginning.


  Glad you all appreciate it. ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

This is rather off-topic, but pretty neat IMO.  Dr Salamy published this short piece 3 months ago.  Nice to have such a pro-peace spiritual father! 




> I am writing this to you with a heavy heart after listening to Secretary of State Kerry's speech regarding American military action against Syria. Though nothing definitive has been announced, it appears that the United States is leaning heavily towards military action against Syria at this time. I am writing to ask each of you to pray for the peace from above, for peace in our world and peace for all the people of Syria.







> Whatever one's political leanings may be, we as Antiochian Orthodox Christians must always remember that our spiritual roots are in Syria. According to Acts 11:26, the disciples were for the first time called Christians in Antioch. Our patriarch, His Beatitude JOHN X lives in Syria. The Antiochian Patriarchate has many archdioceses in Syria, which include Aleppo, Homs, Hama and others. The churches, monasteries, bishops, priests, monks and nuns living in Syria safeguard some of the most ancient Christian relics and holy sites that the world has ever known. There are hundreds of thousands of our Orthodox brothers and sisters who live in Syria, some who have been killed during this conflict and others having been displaced from their homes becoming refugees. Many of our parishioners from St. George are from Syria and many still have family who live there. And of course, we all know of our two beloved bishops who were kidnapped many months ago and still remain missing. If ever there was a time for prayer, today is the day.







> I gave an interview yesterday to KFYI radio (550 AM) denouncing any violence from any of the parties involved, asking rather that a peaceable solution be sought to resolve the crisis in Syria. In fairness to KFYI, they were forthright in replaying my comments not taking them out of context and keeping the quotes as whole as their time allotments allowed. It is a good witness for Antiochian Christians here in Phoenix and throughout our nation of the United States of America.







> With that being said, we will say special prayers for Syria this Sunday at Divine Liturgy. I encourage you all to attend this week, and to encourage others to join us for these prayers. Do not be afraid to use your social media outlets to spread this news. Facebook, Twitter and others have a powerful ability to advertise information freely. Take advantage of that and help us get the word out.







> And most importantly, please remember all of the people of Syria in your God-pleasing prayers. There is no solution to any conflict without God's help; we must ask Him to send His grace upon us all, upon our leaders and upon the international community to do what is right: morally and ethically. Peace only comes from God, and in a world that is suffering so greatly, we will come together as an Antiochian Orthodox parish family and beseech Him to grant that peace to us and to all mankind.






> Your father in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the King of Peace,
> 
> Fr. Chris Salamy

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## heavenlyboy34

Kind of minor thing...it was my understanding that Orthodox hug and kiss a lot, but I rarely see that done at my church. I am disappoint. :/

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## Matthew5

> Kind of minor thing...it was my understanding that Orthodox hug and kiss a lot, but I rarely see that done at my church. I am disappoint. :/


Our parish does, both formally and informally. We're Russian-based though, maybe it's cultural?

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## heavenlyboy34

> Our parish does, both formally and informally. We're Russian-based though, maybe it's cultural?


Perhaps.   My parish is Antiochian (Byzantine rite is the correct term, IIRC).

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## Matthew5

> Perhaps.   My parish is Antiochian (Byzantine rite is the correct term, IIRC).


Well, I'm no cultural authority on these matters. Most of our parishes seem to really be connected that way, giving the kiss of peace whenever possible. Or in my case, getting my face squished and lips kissed by a 93 year old Eastern European woman. haha

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## heavenlyboy34

> Well, I'm no cultural authority on these matters. Most of our parishes seem to really be connected that way, giving the kiss of peace whenever possible. Or in my case, *getting my face squished and lips kissed by a 93 year old Eastern European woman*. haha


lolz

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## heavenlyboy34

Tonight was intro to orthodoxy class again.  First we discussed Icons. (that thing that so many non-orthodox so despise for various irrational reasons :P )  In particular the distinction between "veneration" and "worship" of them.  Also the meanings of some of the imagery.  Then we discussed Theotokos at pretty good length.  Then martyrs and saints.  Neat stuff, IMO.    Chris promises he will teach me about liturgical music ASAP.

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## TER

Hey HB, check out this link.  It has 24 hour music as well many podcasts you might enjoy!  

Www.ancientfaithradio.com

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hey HB, check out this link.  It has 24 hour music as well many podcasts you might enjoy!  
> 
> Www.ancientfaithradio.com





> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TER again


  Love it!

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## Matthew5

> Tonight was intro to orthodoxy class again.  First we discussed Icons. (that thing that so many non-orthodox so despise for various irrational reasons :P )  In particular the distinction between "veneration" and "worship" of them.  Also the meanings of some of the imagery.  Then we discussed Theotokos at pretty good length.  Then martyrs and saints.  Neat stuff, IMO.    Chris promises he will teach me about liturgical music ASAP.


Good stuff! There's tons of meaning in iconography. Nothing in Orthodoxy is done without meaning. I don't remember who it was but they called icons theology for the illiterate. Pictures are universal and transcend language barriers. One could understand the entire Gospel in iconography alone. The Resurrection icon is my favorite. 

Liturgical music is also fascinating stuff. I enjoy both the Byzantine and Russian styles!

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## Matthew5

> Hey HB, check out this link.  It has 24 hour music as well many podcasts you might enjoy!  
> 
> Www.ancientfaithradio.com


A true treasure trove of knowledge. Thankfully the Maddox family has vision, I hope it grows into a television network some day!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Good stuff! There's tons of meaning in iconography. Nothing in Orthodoxy is done without meaning. I don't remember who it was but they called icons theology for the illiterate. Pictures are universal and transcend language barriers. One could understand the entire Gospel in iconography alone. The Resurrection icon is my favorite. 
> 
> Liturgical music is also fascinating stuff. I enjoy both the Byzantine and Russian styles!


Did you find that missing 1 or more intro to orthodoxy classes affected your progress?  Just curious in case I'm too busy, can't get a ride, etc. and have to miss some class time.

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## Matthew5

> Did you find that missing 1 or more intro to orthodoxy classes affected your progress?  Just curious in case I'm too busy, can't get a ride, etc. and have to miss some class time.


Not terribly. But then again, my wife and I were personally taught by our priest in individual sessions. So we chose the time that worked for us. 

However, there's such a wealth of podcast and books (as approved by your priest) that it's easy to catch up. 

This book is a stellar introduction and easy to read (plus plenty of Scripture references)

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## RJB

A book loaned to me by the local Orthodox Priest is:  http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Or...ony+m+coniaris

It goes pretty deep yet still reads easily.  I'm still in prayer about my direction, but if I remain a Catholic, the book will still help me to appreciate my own faith better.

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## TER

*Before the New Testament, Was the Divine Liturgy* 


_By Elder Sophrony of Essex_

We Orthodox live Christ within the Divine Liturgy, or rather Christ lives within us during the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is a work of God. We say: "Time is a creation of the Lord". Among other things it means now is the time for God to act. Christ liturgizes, we live with Christ.

The Divine Liturgy is the way we know God and the way God becomes known to us.

Christ celebrated the Divine Liturgy once and this passed into eternity. His divinized human nature came to the Divine Liturgy. We know Christ specifically in the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy we celebrate is the same Divine Liturgy which was done by Christ on Great Thursday in the Mystical Supper.

The 14th through the 16th chapters of the Gospel according to John is one Divine Liturgy. So in the Divine Liturgy we understand Holy Scripture.

The early Church lived without a New Testament, but not without the Divine Liturgy. The first records, the written hymns, exist in the Divine Liturgy.

In the Divine Liturgy we live Christ and understand His word.

As Christ cleansed His Disciples with his word and said to them: "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you (John 15:3) and He washed the feet of His Disciples with water, during the Sacred Washing, so also in the first section of the Divine Liturgy He cleanses us that we might attend later His Table of love. The purpose of the Divine Liturgy is to convey Christ to us.

The Divine Liturgy teaches us an ethos, the ethos of humility. As Christ sacrificed Himself, so also should we sacrifice ourselves. The type of the Divine Liturgy is the type of impoverishment for us. In the Divine Liturgy we try to be humbled, because we have the sense that there is the humble God.

Every Divine Liturgy is a Theophany. The Body of Christ appears. Every member of the Church is an icon of the Kingdom of God.

After the Divine Liturgy we must continue to iconify the Kingdom of God, keeping His commandments. The glory of Christ is to bear fruit in every member His fruit. This explains His word: "Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit" (John 15:8).


Source: I Knew A Man In Christ: The Life and Times of Elder Sophrony, the Hesychast and Theologian (Οίδα άνθρωπον εν Χριστώ: Βίος και πολιτεία του Γέροντος Σωφρονίου του ησυχαστού και θεολόγου) by Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos and Agiou Vlasiou

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## TER

The Divine Liturgy is the Greatest Mission of the Church 

_By Elder Sophrony of Essex_

Our greatest missionary work in life takes place in the Divine Liturgy. The Fathers of the Church would always build an Altar of Sacrifice in whatever country or city they traveled to. And this is so, because when the heart is sweetened by the Divine Liturgy, it then seeks God. It then desires to live an Orthodox ecclesiastical life, the heart of which is the Holy Eucharist. 

I told the brotherhood that it should always be a priority for it to perform the Divine Liturgy in the Monastery. The prayers of the Divine Liturgy should not be intoned for personal gratification because at that moment the priests are expressing the prayers of all those praying in Church. And for this reason the priests should not be praying with self-centered feelings. We do not celebrate as individuals.

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## georgiaboy

what an uplifting thread.  thanks.

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## heavenlyboy34

> what an uplifting thread.  thanks.


y/w  ~hugs~

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## TER

Great 9 part podcast series on the Divine Liturgy by two converts to the Orthodox Church.

http://ourlifeinchrist.com/?page_id=325

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## heavenlyboy34

Oh, new happening-I have recently contacted my priest's secretary to get a meeting with him so he can teach me how to read/perform liturgical music per his offer.  I've long been fascinated by it, and unfortunately instruction in the theory and practice of it seems to be only available to clergy.  'Twill be an interesting learning experience.

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## Matthew5

> Oh, new happening-I have recently contacted my priest's secretary to get a meeting with him so he can teach me how to read/perform liturgical music per his offer.  I've long been fascinated by it, and unfortunately instruction in the theory and practice of it seems to be only available to clergy.  'Twill be an interesting learning experience.


I'm jealous! (in a good way)

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## TER

> Oh, new happening-I have recently contacted my priest's secretary to get a meeting with him so he can teach me how to read/perform liturgical music per his offer.  I've long been fascinated by it, and unfortunately instruction in the theory and practice of it seems to be only available to clergy.  'Twill be an interesting learning experience.


This is a mini lesson about the Eight Tones important in liturgical music.  This would be a good prep before Father Chris gives you more indepth instruction.  

http://ourlifeinchrist.com/?page_id=315

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## TER

> I'm jealous! (in a good way)


We are all members of the church, all members and parts of the body of Christ, each important and with different abilities and gifts.  And though you jest that you are jealous (for I know you have only joy to see HB's blessed seeking and growing in the faith), there is a sad fact that jealously exists in this world.  The demon of envy stems directly from our pride, and this is what one must overcome to grow in the life of Christ.   Only in humility are we members of Christ Who was humble.   Only in love do we share in His love.  Humbling our minds is the only way and opening our hearts to others is the work of the ekklesia, the church, the assembly of believers.  This is the mission of the faithful,  the members of Him, who in obedience with the Word and communing of Him, have held fast to the teachings and traditions of the saints, empowered and illumined by Him by His Holy Spirit.  When we celebrate the Holy Eucharist, we do so with 2000 years of saints.  Glory to You, our merciful and loving God!  Glory to You, our Savior and Giver of Life!

----------


## TER

We too should humble our minds to the Church, for when we do so, we submit to the Head of the Body, namely Jesus Christ.  The faith is not what _we_ think, it is what has been carried down from the beginning and through the ages.

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## heavenlyboy34

> We too should humble our minds to the Church, for when we do so, we submit to the Head of the Body, namely Jesus Christ.  The faith is not what _we_ think, it is what has been carried down from the beginning and through the ages.


I understood the church to be the bridegroom of Christ, not his body.  Can you explain what you mean there?  (btw, I like how you describe the faith.  This phrase is found over and over in orthodox prayer and liturgical chant.  It's very beautiful and poetic.  )

----------


## TER

> I understood the church to be the bridegroom of Christ, not his body.  Can you explain what you mean there?  (btw, I like how you describe the faith.  This phrase is found over and over in orthodox prayer and liturgical chant.  It's very beautiful and poetic.  )


The Church is a lot of things!   

By definition, ekklesia (the greek word for church and the word written in the original New Testament) means 'assembly of believers'.   You see, the church is not the temple we pray in or the building we partake in the Divine Liturgy, the church is the believers, the faithful men, women, and children who meet in these sacred places in order to pray for the world.  The church is wherever the faithful congregate.

The church is also described as the body of Christ, that is, the presence of Christ in the world among the assembly of believers.  For where two or three are together in His name, He is in the midst of them and sups with them.  Thus, the church is the living presence of Christ in this material world, the very Body of Christ in the world.

The church is also described the bride of Christ in the New Testament.   In Revelation, we read about the multitudes saying in chorus : "

“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
    the Almighty reigns.
 Let us rejoice and exult
    and give him the glory,
for *the marriage* of the Lamb has come,
    and *his Bride* has made herself ready;
it was granted her to clothe herself
    with fine linen, bright and pure”—

for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

 And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the *marriage supper* of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”"  (Revelation 19:6-9)

Above, we learn that in the Last Day, their will be a marriage feast of the Lamb, and in this heavenly eucharistic celebration, the bride, that is the church, will offer herself to Christ and be united with God (in a type of holy matrimony).  In this faith, the assembly of believers are indeed in one faith, one mind, one spirit, one Lamb, and one bride.  

And not only as a passive participant, but in an offering.  For 'the Bride_ has made herself_ ready; it was granted her* to clothe herself* with fine linen, bright and pure' 

And how did she make herself ready?  By faith alone is how we clothe ourselves with fine linen, bright and pure?  No, 'for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints'.

That is why the church, the assembly of believers, look to the saints for instruction and emulation.

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## Matthew5

Well, what I mean to say, is I've been trying out for the choir but it's a "come-as-you-are" type setup and there's no formal practice sessions. I'd like to have some more formal training but there doesn't seem to be at my parish. Thankfully I have a wife who is professionally trained so she helps me not look totally lost.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Well, what I mean to say, is I've been trying out for the choir but it's a "come-as-you-are" type setup and there's no formal practice sessions. I'd like to have some more formal training but there doesn't seem to be at my parish. Thankfully I have a wife who is professionally trained so she helps me not look totally lost.


beware that your church choir may use one of the archaic systems of notation which your wife may not understand.  Those systems tend to have a pretty steep learning curve for those of us trained in Western music.

----------


## Matthew5

> beware that your church choir may use one of the archaic systems of notation which your wife may not understand.  Those systems tend to have a pretty steep learning curve for those of us trained in Western music.


Oh yes, we've already dealt with this! No tempo or key indicated.

----------


## TER

nice site with the audio hymns of the Major Feasts of the Church in Greek and English whereby to practice for those who are musically inclined! 

http://chant.hchc.edu/#

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## heavenlyboy34

> Oh yes, we've already dealt with this! No tempo or key indicated.


The entire notation system is different!  http://byzantinechant.org/notation.html  It may take me a while to wrap my mind around it.

----------


## TER

> The entire notation system is different!  http://byzantinechant.org/notation.html  It may take me a while to wrap my mind around it.


There are versions which have the music written in western notation, in fact, that is how most of the choirs here in the west probably read them.

----------


## dinosaur

> If you ever get the chance you should also check out the Tridentine Mass, I think it's equally as powerful.


I prefer the Tridentine over the Byzantine.  It is truly the closest thing to heaven on earth...a matter of taste I suppose.

----------


## eduardo89

> I prefer the Tridentine over the Byzantine.  It is truly the closest thing to heaven on earth...a matter of taste I suppose.


They both have their beauty, but I do agree, the Tridentine Mass is perhaps the most beautiful celebration of our love for God.

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## TER

HB, listen to this young man chant one of the most solemn hymns of Holy Week




_They have stripped me of my garments and clothed me in a scarlet robe. They have set upon my head a crown of thorns, and have given me a reed in my right hand, that I might dash them to pieces, like a potter’s vessel
_

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## heavenlyboy34

> HB, listen to this young man chant one of the most solemn hymns of Holy Week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _They have stripped me of my garments and clothed me in a scarlet robe. They have set upon my head a crown of thorns, and have given me a reed in my right hand, that I might dash them to pieces, like a potter’s vessel
> _


Thanks! ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

Update-I've confirmed a time for a lesson in Byzantine chant with Fr. Salamy on 12/3.  w00t!

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## TER

> Update-I've confirmed a time for a lesson in Byzantine chant with Fr. Salamy on 12/3.  w00t!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Not a lot of new happenings this week.  There was a new epistle and gospel reading of course, and the sermon was based on that.  Chris is a very entertaining pastor.  There was a prayer for the armed forces and civil government which kind of turned me off, but I’ll let it slide.  My allergies are kind of bothering me, giving me a bit of dry mouth, so I elected not to get blessed bread.  New this week was a dedication of babies, which I was impressed with.  I have never before seen an orthodox dedication, so it was quite interesting to see Father Chris holding the children and making the sign of the cross with them.
Although it will annoy our resident anti-orthodox types here, I again kissed the holy icons.  I was less awkward about it, and Fr Salamy said “good job”.
As usual, the choral music and chant was amazing.  I am impress. J So, afterward I went to the fellowship hall for a bit.  Deacon Abrahams saw me and motioned me to come over.  He greeted me and we chatted a bit, and he introduced me to Fr Pheiffer, who speaks Russian.  We had a brief chat in Russian.  A very nice fellow.   I chatted with friends for a while and had a snack.  I had the sad that Phil’s mom wasn’t there to chat in Russian with. :/
That’s all I can think of for now.  More later if need be.

btw, I am still disappoint hugz n' kissez aren't common. 

ETA: I'm behind on the NT reading challenge, but I'll catch up ASAP.

----------


## TER

> Not a lot of new happenings this week.  There was a new epistle and gospel reading of course, and the sermon was based on that.  Chris is a very entertaining pastor.  There was a prayer for the armed forces and civil government which kind of turned me off, but I’ll let it slide.  My allergies are kind of bothering me, giving me a bit of dry mouth, so I elected not to get blessed bread.  New this week was a dedication of babies, which I was impressed with.  I have never before seen an orthodox dedication, so it was quite interesting to see Father Chris holding the children and making the sign of the cross with them.
> Although it will annoy our resident anti-orthodox types here, I again kissed the holy icons.  I was less awkward about it, and Fr Salamy said “good job”.
> As usual, the choral music and chant was amazing.  I am impress. J So, afterward I went to the fellowship hall for a bit.  Deacon Abrahams saw me and motioned me to come over.  He greeted me and we chatted a bit, and he introduced me to Fr Pheiffer, who speaks Russian.  We had a brief chat in Russian.  A very nice fellow.   I chatted with friends for a while and had a snack.  I had the sad that Phil’s mom wasn’t there to chat in Russian with. :/
> That’s all I can think of for now.  More later if need be.
> 
> btw, I am still disappoint hugz n' kissez aren't common. 
> 
> ETA: I'm behind on the NT reading challenge, but I'll catch up ASAP.


  The amount of hugz n' kissez are parish dependent!  It is a cultural phenomenon!  Here in the west, hugz n' kissez during greeting are not as commonplace as it is in European/Middle Eastern cultures and this is also reflected in many of the parishes here in the US, especially in the southern states.  But these things are merely cultural and cultures change depending on the people.  Who knows?!  Perhaps you will be part of the reason why your parish will one day begin to show more of such types of warm greetings!   


This should not be any reason to discourage you.  Your main purpose amongst the assembly of believers (that is, the ekklessia, translated: the church) is to come together as members of one body in worship of God and to assist one another and the whole world through prayer and fellowship.  The church is not called 'Apostolic' simply because it is directly connected to, and built upon, the teachings of the Apostles, but because we all have been sent on a mission (the actual translation of the world apostle is to send on a mission) to proclaim the Gospel and pray and love one another.  Sometimes this includes lots of huggin, and sometimes tearful prayer.

Where are you at with your reading through of the NT?  Perhaps we can go through it together? I have a great book written by St. Theophylact which goes line by line through the NT offering Patristic commentary.  This book has LOTS of pearls of wisdom!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> The amount of hugz n' kissez are parish dependent!  It is a cultural phenomenon!  Here in the west, hugz n' kissez during greeting are not as commonplace as it is in European/Middle Eastern cultures and this is also reflected in many of the parishes here in the US, especially in the southern states.  But these things are merely cultural and cultures change depending on the people.  Who knows?!  Perhaps you will be part of the reason why your parish will one day begin to show more of such types of warm greetings!   
> 
> 
> This should not be any reason to discourage you.  Your main purpose amongst the assembly of believers (that is, the ekklessia, translated: the church) is to come together as members of one body in worship of God and to assist one another and the whole world through prayer and fellowship.  The church is not called 'Apostolic' simply because it is directly connected to, and built upon, the teachings of the Apostles, but because we all have been sent on a mission (the actual translation of the world apostle is to send on a mission) to proclaim the Gospel and pray and love one another.  Sometimes this includes lots of huggin, and sometimes tearful prayer.
> *
> Where are you at with your reading through of the NT?  Perhaps we can go through it together?* I have a great book written by St. Theophylact which goes line by line through the NT offering Patristic commentary.  This book has LOTS of pearls of wisdom!


I'm up to Matthew 9:18 as of this writing.  I think for tonight I'm going to skip up to today's reading-Luke chapter 1-3 and catch up on Matthew later.  

I'm not too discouraged WRT the lack of hugz n' kissez.  The worship is so beautiful and sincere it mostly makes up for what it lacks.

btw, the Orthdox study bible you suggested to me a year or so ago is still in my amazon cart.  I plan to buy a copy when I pay off my bills in 1-3 months or so.

----------


## TER

> I'm up to Matthew 9:18 as of this writing.  I think for tonight I'm going to skip up to today's reading-Luke chapter 1-3 and catch up on Matthew later.  
> 
> I'm not too discouraged WRT the lack of hugz n' kissez.  The worship is so beautiful and sincere it mostly makes up for what it lacks.
> 
> btw, the Orthdox study bible you suggested to me a year or so ago is still in my amazon cart.  I plan to buy a copy when I pay off my bills in 1-3 months or so.


Luke 1-3 it is!  (as a physician, there is a special place in my heart for St. Luke  In fact, my residency training was in a hospital named after him.

green73, if you are reading this, join our reading group!

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## TER

With regards to churching of the infant which you witnessed today...

The 40 Day Churching of Infants
The biblical history of "churching" infants 40 days after birth


*The Church Tradition*

The Feast of "Our Lord's Presentation in the Temple, (Feb 2) " takes place 40 days after the Nativity of Christ or Christmas. The readings for the Divine Liturgy that day are as follows: Epistle Lesson: Hebrews 7:7-17; and Gospel Lesson: Luke 2:22-40.

Christ was presented to the Temple in obedience to the Mosaic Law which he as the Messiah had come to fulfill. The parents would bring the child along with a sacrifice, "a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons."

*Why did Jesus submit to the Law?*

Jesus submitted to the Law so that the Law might be fulfilled in Him, and in all who accept Jesus as Messiah. The old people, Simeon and Anna symbolize the dying of the Old Covenant and the establishing of the New Covenant in Christ.

*The Purification of Mary*

The Hebrew Tradition of Leviticus 12 portrays a woman as being unclean for forty days after the birth of a male child and 80 days after the birth of a female child. The woman would come with a lamb, if she could afford it, or if not, two turtle doves or two pigeons. Mary and Joseph were poor because they could not offer a lamb, but offered two turtles doves. However, Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

*Purification*

Human beings feel impure in the presence of God, it is a humbling experience. Such times occur at birth and death. Giving birth is not a sin, neither is conceiving a child, however coming to the Church and acknowledging Him as the Giver of Life and thanking Him for protecting the Mother during child birth is why it is now done.

*Church Tradition*

The woman has been absent from the Liturgy for forty days since the birth of her child and is in need of re-establishing herself in the assembly of the Church. She enters the Church, having encountered the miracle of Birth and prayers of thanksgiving are offered for having protected the mother during child birth. The child is also prayed over for God to watch over it and protect it until the time for its baptism. The Child is brought before the icons of Christ and up the steps in front of the Royal Gates of the Holy Altar and offered to God.

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## TER

Coincidentally, it is in Luke chapter 2 (which we are studying tonight) where we learn how the baby Jesus was presented to the temple at 40 days old.  So you witnessed today a practice started by Moses (as instructed by God), fulfilled by Jesus, and continued by the Church.

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## RJB

> The amount of hugz n' kissez are parish dependent!


I'll trade ya.  I'm a Midwesterner of German descent.  MEN DON'T HUG where I'm from!!!!   I might have hugged my dad once or twice in spontaneity  and my grandfathers (who I loved a lot) never.

Now I live in an area with a lot of hippies who always want to hug me.  I put up with it, but it's a cross I bear.

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## Matthew5

> Not a lot of new happenings this week.  There was a new epistle and gospel reading of course, and the sermon was based on that.  Chris is a very entertaining pastor.  There was a prayer for the armed forces and civil government which kind of turned me off, but I’ll let it slide....


Concerning the part of Liturgy where we pray for the President, civil authorities, and the armed forces. I too had an issue with this because it seemed like the church was supporting the evil that these men do. However, my priest explains it as this:

"First, we don't pray for the mission of the troops, we pray for the human souls on both sides of conflict. We must remember that even men who do evil are not beyond salvation. We pray for a peaceful resolution and that armed conflict would quickly come to an end.

Concerning the President and civil authorities, like St. Paul says in Romans, government can be used to bring peace and to punish the wicked. The President is in need of salvation just as much as we are. We pray that he has the wisdom to do the will of God. Not an endorsement, but a plea."

One can certainly differ on opinion and still pray for the person. In fact, if we condemn evil, but don't pray for the evil doer, it's worthless.

----------


## TER

> Concerning the part of Liturgy where we pray for the President, civil authorities, and the armed forces. I too had an issue with this because it seemed like the church was supporting the evil that these men do. However, my priest explains it as this:
> 
> "First, we don't pray for the mission of the troops, we pray for the human souls on both sides of conflict. We must remember that even men who do evil are not beyond salvation. We pray for a peaceful resolution and that armed conflict would quickly come to an end.
> 
> Concerning the President and civil authorities, like St. Paul says in Romans, government can be used to bring peace and to punish the wicked. The President is in need of salvation just as much as we are. We pray that he has the wisdom to do the will of God. Not an endorsement, but a plea."
> 
> One can certainly differ on opinion and still pray for the person. *In fact, if we condemn evil, but don't pray for the evil doer, it's worthless.*


Exactly!  The way you described that part of the prayer litany (that is, the prayer for the civil authorities and military) is how it was explained to me.  Namely, that we pray for their souls, not exactly how they are leading or why they are fighting.  It is not an endorsement at all, but a petition for their souls that they do what is good and according to the will of God.

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## eduardo89

> In fact, if we condemn evil, but don't pray for the evil doer, it's worthless.


That is a very good point and covers every instance in which we condemn sin and evil. It is completely worthless to condemn the sin, but not to pray for and help the sinner.

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## heavenlyboy34

Finished my reading for tonight.   ATM, my favorite is Luke 1:52. He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble

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## TER

> Finished my reading for tonight.   ATM, my favorite is Luke 1:52. He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble


  The Magnificat.    Only of the earliest hymns of the Church.

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## heavenlyboy34

> The Magnificat.    Only of the earliest hymns of the Church.


Да!    While we're on that subject:

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## heavenlyboy34

Just wanted to bump this for green to see what he thought of the gospel reading last night.   Today's gospel is Luke 4-7.

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## heavenlyboy34

today's reading is Luke chapter 8-11, btw.

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## heavenlyboy34

Was quite late today because my ride was late.    I was armed with my mini recorder and recorded audio of everything I was present for, though.  SUCH a beautiful liturgy.  I'm on my 3rd listening as I write.  Next week I'll get a recording of the whole thing.  I can post what I have in this thread if there's interest in it.  (not the greatest quality because the dictation recorder isn't designed for recording music, but it's good enough for my purposes)

ETA: As always, I kissed the icons along with my fellow parishoners.  I don't care if sola_fide's head explodes-I will continue doing it.

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## TER

> Was quite late today because my ride was late.    I was armed with my mini recorder and recorded audio of everything I was present for, though.  SUCH a beautiful liturgy.  I'm on my 3rd listening as I write.  Next week I'll get a recording of the whole thing.  I can post what I have in this thread if there's interest in it.  (not the greatest quality because the dictation recorder isn't designed for recording music, but it's good enough for my purposes)
> 
> ETA: As always, I kissed the icons along with my fellow parishoners.  I don't care if sola_fide's head explodes-I will continue doing it.


We have a new priest in our parish (our beloved Father George was sent to another parish whose priest just retired). Our new priest Father Athanasius is straight from Greece and very traditional and very spiritual.  He is in his late 40's, about  6'3" tall, solidly built with a long grey bread.  He could easily play the role as Moses in a Frank Zefferrilli movie! lol

The striking thing about him is although he has the frame of a pro wrestler, he is such a warm, kind hearted and meek soul.  The children are automatically attracted to him.  We are so happy to have him.  The only problem is he knows very little English, which isn't that big of a deal since my parish is mostly first and second generation Greek-Americans.  Thankfully, one of our parishoners who is an English teacher is giving him weekly lessons.

He has the most beautiful voice and performs the liturgy so reverently.  It is other-worldly.  . While we are sad that our beloved Father George has left us (many believe he will one day be Bishop), we are blessed to have such a loving shepherd in our community.

HB, when and if you can, please post the audio of the liturgy.  I haven't yet had the privilege to attend an Antiochian service and would love to hear how it sounds.

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## heavenlyboy34

I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before.  -> 
http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003

Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation.  Also, my ride was late, so I missed quite a bit of the first part of the service. :/

ETA: Special thanks to Matthew5, who generously gifted me an amazon gift card so I could buy the recorder I used to make the recording.

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## TER

> I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before.  -> 
> http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003
> 
> Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation.


Thank you HB!  

The choir is absolutely beautiful.  They sound better then some professional recordings I have heard.  I can imagine how it must sound to hear it live filling the space of the church.  

How many people are on the choir?

----------


## eduardo89

> I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before.  -> 
> http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003
> 
> Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation.


Beautiful

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## heavenlyboy34

> Thank you HB!  
> 
> The choir is absolutely beautiful.  They sound better then some professional recordings I have heard.  I can imagine how it must sound to hear it live filling the space of the church.  
> 
> How many people are on the choir?


My guess is 30-40 voices in the choir.  They are in the back behind everyone and elevated a full story above, so it's hard to see them clearly (and during liturgy the light is rather dim which makes it harder yet).  The voices fill the room in a most wonderful way, as you can only begin to imagine from the recording.   I think even a high quality 24-50 track recording couldn't do justice to the sound.

----------


## Matthew5

> I've uploaded the recording I mentioned before.  -> 
> http://yourlisten.com/matveimediaarts/rec003
> 
> Pardon the not-so-great quality, but it's a new (and rather cheap) recorder and this is the first time I've used it in a "real" situation.  Also, my ride was late, so I missed quite a bit of the first part of the service. :/
> 
> ETA: Special thanks to Matthew5, who generously gifted me an amazon gift card so I could buy the recorder I used to make the recording.


Good deal, glad it's useful!

Reminds me of a story that happened to one of our inquirers as he was visiting a monastery. He records every service he attends because he's a pastor at an Evangelical church and can't always attend services, so he likes to play back the services when he has private time. Well, he got the chance to go to a monastery during our parish's men's retreat. They attend an Hours service their first morning (which in a monastery really is the third hour of the day!) so it's completely dark in the chapel, save for the candles used during the service. Well, his recorder has a large red light at the end of it. He didn't ask the Abbot if he could record so he put it in a discreet location on a bench. As the Abbot was walking by and censing the chapel, he saw the light and thought it was the dying embers from a spent candle. He promptly picks up the recorder and throws it on the ground. When he hears the metallic crack, he picks it up and takes it to the light. He stopped the service to profusely apologize to the pastor. The other guys are doing everything they can to keep from cracking up.

He said he learned his lesson, always give the priest a head's up when you're going to be recording.

----------


## TER

> My guess is 30-40 voices in the choir.  They are in the back behind everyone and elevated a full story above, so it's hard to see them clearly (and during liturgy the light is rather dim which makes it harder yet).  The voices fill the room in a most wonderful way, as you can only begin to imagine from the recording.   I think even a high quality 24-50 track recording couldn't do justice to the sound.


Man, I'm jealous!  Our choir is, to put it nicely, not very good.  Granted, they are getting better since restarting after a several year hiatus.  Actually thinking of joining, though I am a modest singer.  But our parish is very small and the pool of gifted singers is in the single digits.  But thank God, we are growing every day.  God is good and the love in the community is growing stronger and stronger.    Now with our new priest, I have faith we will grow together as friends until the end of our days.  

HB, the choir in your church are superb, outstanding.  What a wonderful blessing!  When I go to Arizona, I will visit.

Between the angelic voices of the choir and the praying of the people, this is a magnificently beautiful liturgy.  You are very blessed HB to have such beauty so close to you.  All these years you lived just miles from it and never knew it.  Brings to mind this Norman Rockwell painting:



You are very blessed my friend and may He continue to bless you in your journey.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Man, I'm jealous!  Our choir is, to put it nicely, not very good.  Granted, they are getting better since restarting after a several year hiatus.  Actually thinking of joining, though I am a modest singer.  But our parish is very small and the pool of gifted singers is in the single digits.  But thank God, we are growing every day.  God is good and the love in the community is growing stronger and stronger.    Now with our new priest, I have faith we will grow together as friends until the end of our days.  
> 
> HB, the choir in your church are superb, outstanding.  What a wonderful blessing!  When I go to Arizona, I will visit.
> 
> Between the angelic voices of the choir and the praying of the people, this is a magnificently beautiful liturgy.  You are very blessed HB to have such beauty so close to you.  All these years you lived just miles from it and never knew it.  Brings to mind this Norman Rockwell painting:
> 
> You are very blessed my friend and may He continue to bless you in your journey.


Thank you, my friend!  Really, I owe you and eduardo a great debt for helping me find my way to Orthodoxy and to St George Parish in particular. ~hugs~  I greatly look forward to you visiting my church one day, my friend.

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## TER

There is a beautiful monastery in Arizona that I plan on visiting as well.  So many places, so little time!!    And these bones are getting heavier!!

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## heavenlyboy34

> There is a beautiful monastery in Arizona that I plan on visiting as well.  So many places, so little time!!    And these bones are getting heavier!!


Just keep fit and diet well, and you'll be fine, I bet.  ~hugs~

----------


## TER

> Good deal, glad it's useful!
> 
> Reminds me of a story that happened to one of our inquirers as he was visiting a monastery. He records every service he attends because he's a pastor at an Evangelical church and can't always attend services, so he likes to play back the services when he has private time. Well, he got the chance to go to a monastery during our parish's men's retreat. They attend an Hours service their first morning (which in a monastery really is the third hour of the day!) so it's completely dark in the chapel, save for the candles used during the service. Well, his recorder has a large red light at the end of it. He didn't ask the Abbot if he could record so he put it in a discreet location on a bench. As the Abbot was walking by and censing the chapel, he saw the light and thought it was the dying embers from a spent candle. He promptly picks up the recorder and throws it on the ground. When he hears the metallic crack, he picks it up and takes it to the light. He stopped the service to profusely apologize to the pastor. The other guys are doing everything they can to keep from cracking up.
> 
> He said he learned his lesson, always give the priest a head's up when you're going to be recording.


LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!  I would have busted out laughing!!!

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## heavenlyboy34

Interesting news.  Fr. Salamy gave me a lot of information and tutlelage about Byzantine chant tonight.  The notation is totally foreign to me, but it's quite rational and more open to interpretation and improvisation than Western notation.  Since my voice is in the bass range, Fr. Salamy said that the choir director would want me in the choir.   So I'm going to look into that.

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## heavenlyboy34

update: attending choir rehearsal this Sunday before liturgy.  Not sure if I'll be performing, though.  Also got sheet music and recordings for a few hymns.

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## heavenlyboy34

Choir was pretty interesting.  I did my best to follow along with the tenor parts, and did well.   The director gave me a binder of the repertiore.  I have a recording of the service if three's interest.  However, the choir parts are very distorted because I was in the middle of it.  You'll want to FF through that.

I think the sermon will be especially interesting to a number of people here, because the emphasis on what the Church is to the Orthodox. (which has been a subject of much debate/discussion this week on RPFs)

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## heavenlyboy34

Another interesting night in catechumen class.  I didn't have my notes, though. :'(  I asked about one of the things jebuardo mentioned on the forums-that the RCC views the Orthodox as schismatics.  He said the Orthodox feel the same about the RCC.  Interesting. 

ETA: Finally got a ~hug~ from mi amigo Nathan.

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## eduardo89

> Another interesting night in catechumen class.  I didn't have my notes, though. :'(  I asked about one of the things jebuardo mentioned on the forums-that the RCC views the Orthodox as schismatics.  He said the Orthodox feel the same about the RCC.  Interesting.


That is true. While we consider them to have all the properties of true particular churches, we consider those Eastern Churches who are not in Communion with the Catholic Church to be schismatics.

On the other hands, the Eastern Churches in communion with each other consider those Western (and Eastern) Churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome to be the schismatics.

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## TER

HB, what (Father?) Nathan and Eduardo said is correct.  We (the EOC and the RCC) are not in sacramental communion with one another.  Yet even so, we are brothers and God is our Father.  Of course that is also true with all people, including atheists, but the difference is that with the Roman Catholics we have a common root and ancient history and share many truths of the faith, as well as honor many of the same saints.  Because of this, we have a love and understanding with one another which is characteristically different, indeed, deeper.  This is also true with the Oriental Orthodox Church.  May we all one day be unified as one just as Christ prayed in the Garden.  If it doesn't happen in our lifetimes then that is fine, but may God will it to one day happen.  Not with false ecumenism, but with humility and forgiveness and in brotherly love.  These times may be the catalyst for such reconciliation, but it must generate first from the hearts of the people.

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## RJB

> If it doesn't happen in our lifetimes then that is fine, but may God will it to one day happen.


It may not happen in our life time but it will definitely happen in God's.  For me, that ultimately what matters.

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## heavenlyboy34

> HB, what *(Father?) Nathan* and Eduardo said is correct.  We (the EOC and the RCC) are not in sacramental communion with one another.  Yet even so, we are brothers and God is our Father.  Of course that is also true with all people, including atheists, but the difference is that with the Roman Catholics we have a comment root and ancient history and share many truths of the faith, as well as honor many of the same saints.  Because of this, we have a love and understanding with one another which is characteristically different, indeed, deeper.  This is also true with the Oriental Orthodox Church.  May we all one day be unified as one just as Christ prayed in the Garden.  If it doesn't happen in our lifetimes then that is fine, but may God will it to one day happen.  Not with false ecumenism, but with humility and forgiveness and in brotherly love.  These times may be the catalyst for such reconciliation, but it must generate first from the hearts of the people.


Nathan is just a fellow parishoner.  Fr. Salamy taught class that night.

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## TER

> Nathan is just a fellow parishoner.  Fr. Salamy taught class that night.


That's right.  I think you mentioned him in an earlier post.  My bad!

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## heavenlyboy34

> That's right.  I think you mentioned him in an earlier post.  My bad!


You're forgiven, brother. ~crosses self~  ~hugs~ for thee!

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## heavenlyboy34

Unusual day in liturgy.   Aside from the usual things that go on, we did a dedication of children and of the new prayer garden.  I will upload a recording of the liturgy ASAP.

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## TER

> Unusual day in liturgy.   Aside from the usual things that go on, we did a dedication of children and of the new prayer garden.  I will upload a recording of the liturgy ASAP.


Looking forward to hearing it!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Looking forward to hearing it!


My battery is recharging.  I found it out of juice when I got home, and I hope I had enough power to record the whole thing! :/  Should've recharged it last week.

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## heavenlyboy34

IDK why, but my recorder's battery didn't take the charge properly-so I couldn't record liturgy.  :/   At any rate, we sang a lot of Christmas pieces today.   I was allowed to go back to singing bass   Tenor is too high for me. :P

The main tunes sung are here- http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/assets/fil...in20131222.pdf  but we also did various seasonal liturgical chants not listed there.

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## heavenlyboy34

BTW, special performance for Christmas eve liturgy Tuesday.  W00t!

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## Matthew5

> BTW, special performance for Christmas eve liturgy Tuesday.  W00t!


We have Royal Hours, Vesperal Liturgy, and Vigil scheduled for Christmas Eve. Unfortunately I have to work and have family obligations.  Oh well, at least we'll make it to the festal Liturgy on Christmas Day.

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## heavenlyboy34

Really beautiful liturgy this evening.  We did the traditional Christmas liturgical hymns troparions, kontakions,hallelujah, etc.  Fr. Salamy taught about the nativity in the traditional manner.  During several tunes there were solos for the bass section, so myself and the other basses had fun with that.    С днем рождество христова!

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## TER

The services at my church started at 9:30, starting with Vespers, then Divine Liturgy, ending around 2 am.  (then I had to run home to put the presents under the tree before my little monsters woke up!).  It was a very solemn, beautiful and moving service. We are truly blessed to have this priest.  

Just found this quote and thought I might add it to this thread:





> We Orthodox live Christ within the Divine Liturgy, or rather Christ lives within us during the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is a work of God. We say: "Time is a creation of the Lord". Among other things it means now is the time for God to act. Christ liturgizes, we live with Christ.
> 
> The Divine Liturgy is the way we know God and the way God becomes known to us. Christ celebrated the Divine Liturgy once and this passed into eternity. His divinized human nature came to the Divine Liturgy. We know Christ specifically in the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy we celebrate is the same Divine Liturgy which was done by Christ on Great Thursday in the Mystical Supper. The 14th through the 16th chapters of the Gospel according to John is one Divine Liturgy. So in the Divine Liturgy we understand Holy Scripture.
> 
> The early Church lived without a New Testament, but not without the Divine Liturgy. The first records, the written hymns, exist in the Divine Liturgy.
> 
> _
> - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)_

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## TER

Here are some scriptural references of the word liturgy in the NT alongside the original koine Greek. The word in the parenthesis is the actual word used not the italicized words of ministered and service (as used in many modern translations)

*Acts 13.2:*

2 As they _ministered_ (liturgized) to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

2 λειτουργούντων δὲ αὐτῶν τῷ κυρίῳ καὶ νηστευόντων εἶπεν τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον· Ἀφορίσατε δή μοι τὸν Βαρναβᾶν καὶ Σαῦλον εἰς τὸ ἔργον ὃ προσκέκλημαι αὐτούς.


*Luke 1.23*

23 So it was, as soon as the days of his _service_ (Liturgy) were completed, that he departed to his own house.

23 καὶ ἐγένετο ὡς ἐπλήσθησαν αἱ ἡμέραι τῆς λειτουργίας αὐτοῦ, ἀπῆλθεν εἰς τὸν οἶκον αὐτοῦ.


*Phillipians 2.17:*

17 Yes, and if I am being poured out as a drink offering on the sacrifice and _service_ (liturgy) of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.

17 ἀλλὰ εἰ καὶ σπένδομαι ἐπὶ τῇ θυσίᾳ καὶ λειτουργίᾳ τῆς πίστεως ὑμῶν, χαίρω καὶ συγχαίρω πᾶσιν ὑμῖν·


*Hebrews 8.6:*

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent _ministry_ (liturgy), inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

 νυνὶ δὲ διαφορωτέρας τέτυχεν λειτουργίας, ὅσῳ καὶ κρείττονός ἐστιν διαθήκης μεσίτης, ἥτις ἐπὶ κρείττοσιν ἐπαγγελίαις νενομοθέτηται.


*Hebrew 1.7:*

6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His _ministers_ (liturgizers) a flame of fire.”

 7 καὶ πρὸς μὲν τοὺς ἀγγέλους λέγει· Ὁ ποιῶν τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ πνεύματα, καὶ τοὺς λειτουργοὺς αὐτοῦ πυρὸς φλόγα·

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## TER



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## TER



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## heavenlyboy34

Weirdness...Only a few showed up for choir rehearsal this morning. :/  So we almost dismissed for Orthros.  Then everyone starts showing up at the last friggin moment, so there was a bit of practice before liturgy.  Fr. Chris was absent toady.   I had teh sad.  Rev. Dn. Daumitt led the service.  The little kids in the parish are kind of annoying but amusing at the same time.

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## TER

The liturgical unity of the faithful, under whatever conditions and in whatever institutions, networks and structures, is the starting point for the transformation of mass coexistence into a communion of persons, a society; for the achievement of social justice and not merely a program for it; and for liberating work from slavery to mechanized necessity and transforming it into a personal relationship, an event of communion. Only the life of the eucharistic body of the parish can give flesh to the formal idea of the ‘priestly’ character of politics, the prophetic character of science, the philanthropic character of economics and the mystical character of the family. Without the parish, all this is theory, naive idealism and a romantic utopia. Within the parish it becomes a historical reality, an immediate possibility and a concrete experience.

_– from “The Freedom of Morality ” by Christos Yannaras_

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## TER

Where else [other than at Eucharist] in our society are all of us–not just a gnostic elite, but everyone–called to be social critics, called to extricate ourselves from the powers and principalities that claim to rule our daily lives in order to submit ourselves to the sole dominion of the God before whom all of us are equal? Where else in our society are we all addressed and sprinkled and bowed to and incensed and touched and kissed and treated like somebody-all in the very same way? Where else do economic czars and beggars get the same treatment? Where else are food and drink blessed in a common prayer of thanksgiving, broken and poured out, so that everybody, everybody shares and shares alike?

_– Robert Hovda_

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## heavenlyboy34

This Sunday we will celebrate Epiphany per the Archdiocese's direction.  We will also be doing the Great Blessing of Water.  I've never done either, so it should be enlightening.

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## TER

*The Life of Christ Within Us*



By His Eminence Metropolitan Hierotheos
of Nafpaktos and Agiou Vlasiou
We are at the beginning of the year and we are used to exchanging well wishes, which are always pleasant, hopeful and encouraging. Yet things in peoples lives do not come as they wish. There are voices today who speak of a difficult year ahead and, of course, there are serious grounds to support this view that there will be difficulties. But a person has to face all the problems of life with an elevated sense of meaning. This should be done particularly by Christians.

The thoughts below refer to how the Church urges Christians to live every day of their lives and, therefore, this year. Our model should be Christ and our continuing aim will be how to live in Christ.

*1.* Christ, after His baptism in the Jordan River and the arrest of John the Forerunner, began His ministry preaching repentance: "Repent, for the reign of heaven is near" (Matt. 4:17). This refers to the Gospel reading on the first Sunday after the Baptism of Christ, basically the first Sunday of each new year. This is important because it determines in our lives the course for every new year.

The sacred Gospels, although not a complete biography of Christ, do present a general outline of "what Christ said, did and suffered". As to what He "said" refers to His teachings, and a primary place for this is given to His Sermon on the Mount, as well as His speeches presented in the Gospel of John, which are full of theology. As to what he "did" refers to His miracles, namely the healing of sicknesses, the remission of sins and the raising from the dead. As to what He "suffered" refers to the persecution by the Scribes and Pharisees, and especially His Passion and Crucifixion. Of course, the Gospels describe His Resurrection and Ascension into the heavens as well as the coming of the All-Holy Spirit.

If we notice carefully we will find that these three actions of Christ reveal His divine-human person. That is, Christ preached as a Prophet, worked wonders as a King, and suffered and was crucified as a High Priest. In other words, Christ united in Himself these three categories of people who were in the Old Testament, that of the Prophet, King and High Priest.

*2.* However, the entire work of Christ we live again within the Mystery of the Divine Eucharist, which is the sacramental repetition of the work of divine economy. We come to the church, participate in the Divine Eucharist (we do not only pray as individuals), but we also live the sacramental event of the divine incarnation of Christ.

The Small Entrance symbolically shows Christ entering the world to preach the Gospel of repentance and salvation. The Priest holds the Gospel in which is contained the teaching of Christ and after the Entrance he reads the passage prescribed by the Fathers, and so we experience what Christ said and is saying, that is, the prophetic identity of Christ is declared.

During the course of the Divine Eucharist we pray that God would send His mercy. We feel that we are sick in soul and body, and have been hurt by demonic influences and the excitement of the passions, and so we see our unworthiness, our spiritual leprosy, as well as our spiritual deadness and internal situation, and we pray that God would send His mercy. That is, we come to the Divine Eucharist hurt, frustrated, and many times we feel miracles take place, that there are internal changes. By this we are living within us the wonderworking identity of Christ, what Christ did and does. We are experiencing the sovereignty of Christ over all creation.

Then, during the Divine Liturgy with the Great Entrance, the gifts are moved from the sacred Prothesis where they were suitably prepared and deposited on the holy Altar where the bloodless mystagogy will take place, to experience the Passion of Christ. The holy Altar is terrible Golgotha on which is performed this great bloodless sacrifice of Christ. In this sense in the Divine Eucharist we also experience what Christ suffered for our salvation, and so we experience His high priestly identity.

Indeed, the Divine Eucharist is the center of our spiritual life, because in it we see Christ acting as Prophet, King and High Priest. And when we are apprenticed into the mysteries of the Reign of God, we are ruled by the great King and nourished by His Body, and we can live the mystery of the Divine Economy. Finally, the Divine Eucharist is not an individual or even a common prayer, but it is an initiation into the mystery of the Divine Economy, which is the mystery of the Incarnation of Christ and the deification of man.

*3.* Yet, this entire life of Christ does not end with the celebration of the Divine Eucharist, but it continues also in our personal life. After the Divine Liturgy there begins another internal liturgy. When one communes of the Body and Blood of Christ, after necessary preparation, then they receive within them Christ as Prophet, King and High Priest and so the Divine Liturgy continues.

Christ teaches within us what we must do to walk correctly and rule over our passions, giving us His grace and energy, together with our synergy, to be released from the passions and freed from their dynasty. As a Priest He inspires us to pray unceasingly to God. This means that after Divine Communion we live Christ within us as Prophet, King and High Priest, and so we increase our spiritual life. Christ continues to preach, work miracles and perform as a Priest for our salvation.

In this sense the Gospel describes the key events of the life of Christ, mystically illustrated in the Mystery of the Divine Eucharist, and it is experienced spiritually in the heart, the center of the inner man, where the love and mercy of God is revealed.

We have many problems in our lives, several anomalous situations, and we face numerous difficulties, but as Christians we should live in Christ, that is, we should enter into the life of Christ and Christ can enter into us.

With these conditions, the new year will be blessed and fruitful and this year will be profitable. We should not only see our external difficulties, but we are interested primarily and above all how we make ​​within our existence a spiritual Divine Liturgy. We should be very interested especially in what the Apostle Paul says: "For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ" (Heb. 3:14).

Happy and blessed New Year!

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## heavenlyboy34

The Blessing Of The Water was very interesting and beautiful.  My first taste of Holy Water.   Not the best water in the world as far as flavor, but still good.  We sang the seasonal music-antiphon, apolitykion, etc.

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## TER

> The Blessing Of The Water was very interesting and beautiful.  My first taste of Holy Water.   Not the best water in the world as far as flavor, but still good.  We sang the seasonal music-antiphon, apolitykion, etc.


It has the taste of basil due to the priest dunking the basil leaves to bless the congregation.  The Holy Water is truly blessed and powerful.  Keep it safe for times of an emergency.

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## TER

Here is the hymn of the Feast in various languages:

"As many as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ" (Gal 3:27).

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## TER

found 2 videos which chant it in both English and Greek...

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## heavenlyboy34

> It has the taste of basil due to the priest dunking the basil leaves to bless the congregation.  The Holy Water is truly blessed and powerful.  *Keep it safe for times of an emergency.*


I was only allowed a rather small serving. :/

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## TER

> I was only allowed a rather small serving. :/


That's because we had different services!  The Blessing of the Waters traditionally takes place today on Jan. 6th while your Eminence's economia allowed it to be celebrated yesterday.  This Holy Water is to be consumed immediately after the prayers by the faithful.  The liturgy which I was in yesterday (which is a different service) has in it Holy Water which can be taken home to be used or stored.  And it stores for years without ever going bad and God has worked innumerable miracles and healings through this blessed and sanctified water.  I'm sure your Priest has some around.  You should ask him for some.  Better yet, you should ask him to come pray at your house and bless it with Holy Water.  Nothing else brings greater peace to a home, not in my little experience and (more importantly) in the experience of countless others throughout the history of the Church.

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## TER

If the poison of pride is swelling up in you, turn to the Eucharist; and that Bread, Which is your God humbling and disguising Himself, will teach you humility. If the fever of selfish greed rages in you, feed on this Bread; and you will learn generosity. If the cold wind of coveting withers you, hasten to the Bread of Angels; and charity will come to blossom in your heart. If you feel the itch of intemperance, nourish yourself with the Flesh and Blood of Christ, Who practiced heroic self-control during His earthly life; and you will become temperate. If you are lazy and sluggish about spiritual things, strengthen yourself with this heavenly Food; and you will grow fervent. Lastly, if you feel scorched by the fever of impurity, go to the banquet of the Angels; and the spotless Flesh of Christ will make you pure and chaste.

_- St. Cyril of Alexandria_

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## heavenlyboy34

> Here is the hymn of the Feast in various languages:
> 
> "As many as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ" (Gal 3:27).


That quote from Gallatians is the opening line of one of the Christmas Troparians in the antiochian church.

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## Sola_Fide

> It was a really amazing experience and Im still kind of taking it all in.  Ill fill in anything I forget later.
> So, I arrived and a nice fellow helped me find a place to stand.  In this church, there are pews, so I stood there, just following everyones lead.  During prayer, we kneeled while the priest led the service.  There are little speakers on the floor so he can be heard from every part of the church.  The choir sang intermittently in gorgeous 4 part harmony that was better in tune than any church choir Ive heard in person. (except perhaps the Phoenix Symphonys choir)
> Later on, everyone sat in the pews.  I noticed priests carrying incense down the aisles.  It was really beautiful, and didnt bother my allergies at all. 
> Then there was the eucharist.  Not being formally Orthodox yet, I didnt take that, but I was given a piece of blessed bread. 
> Afterward was fellowship, and I met the priest and several of the deacons.  We discussed my interest in the Orthodox faith, how I came to it, etc.  I was then invited to the introduction to orthodoxy class (which I plan to attend).  I was rather clumsy in speaking at that time though, as the new experience of liturgy was very vivid and fresh in my mind.
> After that, I went for fellowship.  I met a fellow named Phil at a table with his friends and his mother.  During our get to know you chat, I mentioned my interest in Russian language and culture, and Phil told me he is Russian.  Then his mother Ludmilla speaks up to introduce herself in a very thick, distinct Russian accent.  We had a brief exchange in Russian, and Ludmilla left.  I was left at the table with Phil and his friends.  Theyre very nice, but mostly talk about silly movies and such.  lolz Phil was interested in my work, so I gave him my url.  Its nice to know some native speakers to practice with. 
> 
> Special thanks to TER, eduardo, and others who have helped me along this path. ~hugs~



This is very sad to hear.

If you would have talked about how the Spirit had opened your eyes to the depths of your sin, how God had showed you your absolute spiritual deadness, and how He opened your eyes to the truth of the gospel...that Jesus' perfect life has been imputed to you and how He has fulfilled the law on your behalf so that you now can stand before the Father without blemish, if you would have talked about the wonder and awe that God chose you purely by grace and that not only do you not deserve heaven, but rather you deserve Hell for your sin...

If you would have talked about any of this, then what a wonderful day of rejoicing it would be.  But instead you talked about how the people at church were nice and the choir sang well.  That's all garbage compared to knowing the riches of grace.  I pray the Lord will put a heart of flesh in you and wake you from your spiritual deadness!  Only He can do it!

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## TER

> If you would have talked about how the Spirit had opened your eyes to the depths of your sin, how God had showed you your absolute spiritual deadness, and how He opened your eyes to the truth of the gospel...that Jesus' perfect life has been imputed to you and how He has fulfilled the law on your behalf so that you now can stand before the Father without blemish


It is the Spirit which has opened his eyes to the depths of his sin and the knowledge of his spiritual deadness, and it is God who has opened his eyes to the truth of the gospel and how much he needs Him, and it is God which has led him to the Church.

He does not consider himself to stand before the Father without blemish.  Some do, even though with empty words they speak a lot about total depravity.

It is precisely because HB loves God that he seeks Him, to join His Body, the Body of Christ in the world which He sanctified by the Helper Who is the Holy Spirit of God.  It is in humility and not vainglory which he kneels before God in personal and communal worship of Him. It is his real (and not make-believe) sense of dependance upon God whereby he desires to meet Him and grow in Him in body and spirit.  And this will not be taken away.

It is not surprising that you are back. I have prayed for you often.  I hope you have come back in a spirit of peace.  Lately, I have been a bit easily bothered and have several times posted fool-headed things.  I have not acting as I should and have said inflammatory things to good people which I should not have said.  I have sinned before the Lord.  To add fuel to it, I have tempted the devil and have dared him to attack.  A risky invitation to say the least.  

And now, you have returned.

I sincerely pray that our merciful and loving God enters and softens your heart, that He vanquishes any pride and vainglory which is in it, and He opens your eyes and your soul to His gospel of peace and love, especially since the days are passing quickly.

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## Sola_Fide

> He does not consider himself to stand before the Father without blemish.  Some do, even though with empty words they speak a lot about total depravity.


TER,
With all the love in my heart I proclaim to you that you MUST be without sin to stand in the presence of the Father.  

If you think that your good works, even your grace-inspired good works, are enough to make you stand before the Father, I proclaim to you that you will die in your sins and spend eternity in Hell.

God's law MUST be fulfilled,  or else God wouldn't be holy or just.  God's law must be PERFECTLY followed to be in His presence.  God will not allow sin in His presence because He is holy. 

There is one Man who lived a sinless life.  If you want to stand before the Father, you must have faith in this Man's perfect life ALONE.  You must have a PERFECT righteousness to stand before God, and if you have faith in this perfect Man's life ALONE, then His righteousness will become your righteousness. 

What I've just declared to you is the gospel of Jesus Christ.  You can read about this good news in the books of Romans.

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## TER

Diet Christianity.  'Great taste, but less filling!'  Unfortunately, not only is it less filling, the taste is actually not that great.

The Holy Eucharist tastes much better and it is my desire to be filled, knowing that it is through Christ that I am saved.

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## Matthew5

How was the vacation, SF? FF did a fine job filling the void in your absence. Almost so well, I'd venture to guess y'all were the same person.

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## TER



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## heavenlyboy34

Sheesh, S_F tried to ruin my thread with his innovative, un-Christian/anti-Christian nonsense too?   FFS.  ~SMH~  

Anyway, another beautiful liturgy today.   We included more arabic tunes this week, which I liked a lot.  (it's just difficult to pronounce some words)  Fr. Chris spoke at length about Zaccheus, per this week's gospel text (Luke 19:1-10).  The Epistle reading was Timothy 4:9-15.  There are always a few little ones about in rehearsal and in the choir stand nowadays.  They're terribly amusing and cute.  

After liturgy, a parishoner complimented my singing and thanked me, which I thought very nice.   There was the annual parish general assembly meeting after liturgy.  I didn't attend though, as I had to leave.  :/  Probably next year.   No ~hugs~ this week, as everyone was busy after liturgy. :/ 

I prayed for all of you people again-even those of you who harbor hate in your hearts, for me or in general.  ~hugs~

ETA: Sorry I haven't kept this updated as well as I would like to. :/
ETA2: the Bishop attended liturgy with us this week, a nice blessing for us.

ETA3:  These are the tunes the Bishop performed with us for those interested in Eastern Christian music:
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/defa...lish-total.pdf
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/defa...-smolensky.pdf

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## heavenlyboy34

> Diet Christianity.  'Great taste, but less filling!'  Unfortunately, not only is it less filling, the taste is actually not that great.
> 
> The Holy Eucharist tastes much better and it is my desire to be filled, knowing that it is through Christ that I am saved.


  I am eagerly anticipating my Chrismation so I can take part in Eucharist.  I still take blessed bread for now.

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## heavenlyboy34

> 


That sounds a lot like St George's music!   There's just more mideastern influence in the melody of Antiochian music, as well as more complicated polyphony.

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## heavenlyboy34

Update: I have been in touch with Fr. Chris lately.  We have to iron out the details, but ATM we will be aiming for a November Chrismation.   This week I will begin accepting blessing during Eucharist.

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## heavenlyboy34

This morning the Bishop Metropolitian Phillip joined us.   A bit of the liturgical music was unique for this occasion.  I got a blessing during communion from Fr. Abrahms.  The focus of Fr Chris' sermon was children and raising them as Christians in the church.   Fr. Chris said he wants to meet this week WRT my Chrismation.  Hoping to find a spot in my schedule that works for him.  More of the choral music was in arabic than usual, btw.    Every week parishioners compliment me on my singing and thank me.  Nice to be of service to people.

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## heavenlyboy34

Here's a recording made by some of the chanters at St George:

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## Terry1

I have to say that I have learned so much from some very spiritual charismatic Catholics.  Although I'm not a Catholic, I am open to learning from every kindred spirit.  It was a great Catholic teacher who taught on grace.  I never saw Gods grace in that light until he revealed it as being the "power of God".  I searched that out in the word and found that he was spot on.  Also another great that we have learned so much from about the spiritual realm was Malachi Martin.  

Gods children are indeed scattered about in different denominations, I have met so many of them and learned so much by so many.

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## RJB

> TER,
> With all the love in my heart I proclaim to you that you MUST be without sin to stand in the presence of the Father.


Repent of your sins.  Pretending to be a Christian and causing mischief may amuse you, but your soul is in danger.

----------


## TER



----------


## Terry1

> 


What a beautiful image TER.  I had to smile as I looked at it.

----------


## TER

> What a beautiful image TER.  I had to smile as I looked at it.


  I am happy you liked it.  Below is a picture of my eldest daughter coming out of the water during her baptism.


The reflection of the candle in her eyes makes it an especially good shot.  I like to think she saw her guardian angel at that moment.

----------


## Terry1

> I am happy you liked it.  Below is a picture of my eldest daughter coming out of the water during her baptism.
> 
> 
> The reflection of the candle in her eyes makes it an especially good shot.  I like to think she saw her guardian angel at that moment.


How precious and adorable she is!  I don't know how anyone can look at those pictures without smiling at the beautiful face on those babies.  

You know, you mention her guardian angel and it makes me remember a wonderful charismatic lady who testified to have been lifted in into heaven many times.  Her stories are so amazing and she's even been proven true when she was led to family and friends of people she'd never known before, but she said that what she'd been shown is that everyone has a guardian angel assigned to them not just at birth, but at the very point of conception.  

I don't know if you've ever heard the testimony of little Colton Burpo, whose father was a pastor.  He testified seeing his sister in heaven that had died in his mother's womb.  The miraculous thing about Colton's testimony is that his mother had never mentioned this to this four year old boy of hers before.  He testified seeing her in heaven and described her.

He was four years old when he had this experience back a few years ago and has been on many Christian shows giving his testimony.

----------


## Terry1

Here's the story of Coulton Burpo.  There's other video's too.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Nice liturgy this morning.    We were again joined by the Bishop.  There were a few verses of Greek in the choral literature this week, which TER would've appreciated.   Fr. Chris said he'll let me know if he meets any music students who need a tutor in theory/composition so I can teach for some badly needed FRNs.  I got a blessing during communion as usual, which I'm sure would've sent S_F into fits. 
ETA: Forgot to mention-when I was in line waiting for a blessing and a piece of bread, the usher recognized me as a member of the choir and let me go to the front of the line.  Cool perk!

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## heavenlyboy34

It was an especially nice liturgy today,as we welcomed archbishop Joseph.   Lots of extra music to rehearse beforehand, though...and some of it still sounded like a trainwreck in liturgy (at least, IMO). :/  As my orthodox brothers and sisters probably know, it is customary to welcome archbishops and other high clergy individually.  In my parish, we kiss the archbishop's hand and recieve his blessing.  

Anyway, at communion, the usher told the other people in line that I get priority because I'm in the choir...but some had the nerve to cut in front of me anyway!   Well, I did finally get to the table and got a blessing from Fr Chris and a piece of blessed bread.  

I reckon that between the visiting clergy and the special kids' events going on outside, it made the parishoners unusually silly. 

The kids who hang out in the choir loft were a bit more rowdy than usual too, IMO...but they amuse me.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

New update:  I met with Fr. Chris today.  He gave me a reading list and a few videos.  We set our goal for Chrismation as Pascha at the earliest, but more likely Christmas.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Very nice liturgy this morning.   In addition to commonly sung tunes, we sang a trisagion in remembrance of recently deceased parishioners.  Had some extra time toady, so I hugged a bunch of friends. 

When I went to get a blessing from Fr Mansour during communion, he forgot that I haven't been Chrismated yet.  He was about to get out the wine for me, and before I could stop him, the lady next to him stopped him.  Awkward and funny moment.   lolz

----------


## TER

> Very nice liturgy this morning.   In addition to commonly sung tunes, we sang a trisagion in remembrance of recently deceased parishioners.  Had some extra time toady, so I hugged a bunch of friends. 
> 
> When I went to get a blessing from Fr Mansour during communion, he forgot that I haven't been Chrismated yet.  He was about to get out the wine for me, and before I could stop him, the lady next to him stopped him.  Awkward and funny moment.   lolz


Soon enough my brother and you too will commune of the Holy Gifts, the heavenly manna for eternal life!

The next upcoming weeks of Great and Holy Lent leading to the Paschal celebration of our Lord's resurrection have the most beautiful and solemn services of the year.  I pray The Lord continues to bless and fill you with the Holy Spirit in the following weeks until the day we worship and glorify God together and sing 'Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down death by His death, and to those in the tombs, bestowing life!'

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Soon enough my brother and you too will commune of the Holy Gifts, the heavenly manna for eternal life!
> 
> The next upcoming weeks of Great and Holy Lent leading to the Paschal celebration of our Lord's resurrection have the most beautiful and solemn services of the year.  I pray The Lord continues to bless and fill you with the Holy Spirit in the following weeks until the day we worship and glorify God together and sing 'Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down death by His death, and to those in the tombs, bestowing life!'


Thanks!~hugs~ 


> 'Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down death by His death, and to those in the tombs, bestowing life!'


 There's a choral tune that's part of the repertoire almost every week that contains this text!  I believe it's a troparion.  IDR the name right now.. :/

----------


## TER

HB, just came across this article and thought you might like it.

 Met. Ephrem (Kyriakos) on the Divine Liturgy

*The Divine Liturgy: The Sacrament of Thanksgiving*

The most important prayer that we give to God is prayer of thanksgiving. The Divine Liturgy is the prayer of thanksgiving par excellence. Why? Because the best thing we can thank God for is His divine sacrifice on the cross for the salvation of our souls. "It is meet and right to praise Thee, to bless Thee and to worship Thee in every place of Thy dominion... Thou brought us out of nothing into being... For all of these things we give thanks to Thee... for all things of which we know and of which we know not, whether manifest or unseen..."

We do not give thanks to God only for money. We do not thank Him only for health. Health is not always useful and it does not always bring us closer to God. We also say in Liturgy, "We thank Thee for this divine sacrifice which Thou hast found worthy to accept at our hands..." The most important thing that happened in history was the divine sacrifice on the cross.

The divine liturgy is a wedding, wherein we are united to Christ by means of the Gospel and of partaking. It is a spiritual wedding where we pray that we may feel that we are poor before God. This is the most important grace that God gives us.

In Greek we call it the Eucharist, that is the giver of every grace.

The reason for coming to the liturgy is faith, thanksgiving, and giving praise and glory. We might not understand everything that is said and everything that happens at the liturgy. The encounter with the Lord amidst the assembly of the faithful, this is what is most important. There we share in the Lord's table.

We do not remain isolated in our homes. In Greek we also call partaking "koinonia", which means "society" or "communion". There is no private liturgy for a particular family. We are always together.

When someone says that "the liturgy is private", this does not mean anything in the Church's understanding. The sacrament of baptism, the sacrament of marriage, all the sacraments were performed with the community at the divine liturgy, as was priestly ordination. The priest does not perform the divine sacrifice alone. The priest stands as a representative in the presence of God, bearing with him the community and the world because the liturgy is the lifting up of the entire universe. Here is the entrance into the eternal kingdom of the Trinity.

"Blessed is the kingdom of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, amen...." This is how we would like our days to be, filled with God's presence. The believer is always reaching upwards, from earth to heaven, from bodily things to spiritual things. This is his ongoing struggle. It is the constant motion as long as we are in the body, estranged from God, until God reigns over our hearts in the kingdom of His love. When the believers taste the Gospel and the body of the Lord, they place themselves between the first coming and the second coming.

In sum, beloved, let all come to the divine liturgy and taste how good the Lord is!

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> HB, just came across this article and thought you might like it.
> 
>  Met. Ephrem (Kyriakos) on the Divine Liturgy
> 
> *The Divine Liturgy: The Sacrament of Thanksgiving*
> 
> The most important prayer that we give to God is prayer of thanksgiving. The Divine Liturgy is the prayer of thanksgiving par excellence. Why? Because the best thing we can thank God for is His divine sacrifice on the cross for the salvation of our souls. "It is meet and right to praise Thee, to bless Thee and to worship Thee in every place of Thy dominion... Thou brought us out of nothing into being... For all of these things we give thanks to Thee... for all things of which we know and of which we know not, whether manifest or unseen..."
> 
> We do not give thanks to God only for money. We do not thank Him only for health. Health is not always useful and it does not always bring us closer to God. We also say in Liturgy, "We thank Thee for this divine sacrifice which Thou hast found worthy to accept at our hands..." The most important thing that happened in history was the divine sacrifice on the cross.
> ...


Nice!  It's very difficult to capture the spirit and beauty of liturgy, but that ^^ is getting pretty close.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Today was the Sunday of Forgiveness and Cheese Fare.   What was most interesting was that we formed opposing lines around the parish.  Then as each person passes by, we kiss them on the cheek and say "God forgives you".  A lot of people only kiss one cheek, but quite a few, I noticed, get carried away and kiss both cheeks.   It was as good, if not better, than several dozen ~hugs~.   Afterward in fellowship hour there was plenty of free mideastern food, which was yummy.   TER, danke, and eduardo would've enjoyed it for sure.  A lot of others would as well.

ETA: The kids were very funny and cute about it.  Some were really into it, and others don't want to wait for tall adults like myself and several other guys to kneel down to their level, so they just run past.

----------


## eduardo89

> Today was the Sunday of Forgiveness and Cheese Fare.   What was most interesting was that we formed opposing lines around the parish.  Then as each person passes by, we kiss them on the cheek and say "God forgives you".  A lot of people only kiss one cheek, but quite a few, I noticed, get carried away and kiss both cheeks.   It was as good, if not better, than several dozen ~hugs~.   Afterward in fellowship hour there was plenty of free mideastern food, which was yummy.   TER, danke, and eduardo would've enjoyed it for sure.  A lot of others would as well.


Sounds fantastic!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Sounds fantastic!


Да!  I doubt even danke could be grumpy after Sunday Of Forgiveness liturgy.

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## heavenlyboy34

btw, a blessed Lenten season to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and have a Forgiveness Sunday kiss from me. ~kiss~  Бог прощает тебе! (God forgives you!)

----------


## TER

> btw, a blessed Lenten season to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and have a Forgiveness Sunday kiss from me. ~kiss~  Бог прощает тебе!


A blessed Holy and Great Lent to my brothers and sisters in Christ!  Forgive me my friends!  Glory to our the risen Christ!

from Matins on Clean Monday

HAVING ENGAGED IN EVERY SIN,
HAVING SURPASSED ALL MEN IN IMMORALITY,
ALTHOUGH I WISH TO REPENT I DO NOT HAVE A FLOW OF TEARS.
SINCE NOW I LIVE IN LAZINESS
I AM CONDEMNED TO TORTURES
BUT GRANT ME REPENTANCE, O GOOD ONE//
AND HAVE MERCY ON ME.

ON THE BEAUTIFUL DAY OF THE FAST
GRANT ME CLOUDS OF TEARS, O CHRIST
THAT I MAY WEEP AND WASH AWAY THE FILTH OF MY DESIRE FOR SWEET THINGS
AND APPEAR BEFORE YOU AS ONE WHO IS CLEAN
WHEN YOU, LORD, WILL DESCEND FROM THE HEAVENS TO JUDGE ALL MEN//
AS THE ONLY RIGHTEOUS JUDGE!

...

COME, O FAITHFUL!
WITH GREAT FERVOR; HAVING THE MIGHTY WEAPON OF THE FAST AS A SHIELD,
LET US TURN AWAY ALL CHARMS OF THE ENEMY.
LET US NOT BE SCORCHED BY THE SWEETNESS OF OUR PASSIONS,
NOR FEAR THE FIRES OF TEMPTATIONS,
FOR CHRIST THE LOVER OF MANKIND WILL CROWN US WITH HONOR FOR PATIENCE.
LET US FALL DOWN, PRAYING WITH BOLDNESS, AND CRYING OUT://
ASKING PEACE FOR OUR SOULS AND GREAT MERCY.

LET US PRESENT A GOOD FAST, WELL-PLEASING TO THE LORD!
A TRUE FAST IS ALIENATION FROM THE EVIL ONE;
THE HOLDING OF ONE'S TONGUE, THE LAYING ASIDE OF ALL ANGER,
THE REMOVAL OF ALL SENSUALITY,
OF ACCUSATION, FALSEHOOD AND SINS OF SWEARING.//
THE WEAKENING OF THESE WILL MAKE THE FAST TRUE AND WELL-PLEASING.
...


GREAT IS THE MIGHT OF YOUR MARTYRS, O CHRIST,
FOR THOUGH THEY LIE IN THEIR TOMBS THEY DRIVE AWAY DEMONS
AND DEFEAT THE POWER OF THE ENEMY.
THEY HAVE LIVED THEIR LIVES IN BATTLE FOR PIETY//
BY FAITH IN THE TRINITY.

                GLORY TO THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT NOW AND EVER AND UNTO THE AGES OF AGES!

THEOTOKOS, PROTECTION OF ALL WHO PRAY TO YOU,
WE HAVE BOLDNESS, AND EXULT IN YOU!
WE PUT ALL OUR HOPE IN YOU; //
PRAY FOR YOUR CORRUPT SERVANTS, TO THE ONE WHOM YOU BORE.

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## heavenlyboy34

After some thought, I've decided that my fast will simply be abstaining from desserts and such sugary things throughout Lent.

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## RJB

> After some thought, I've decided that my fast will simply be abstaining from desserts and such sugary things throughout Lent.


I love your updates, HB.  

I'm giving up the internet except for an hour on Sundays so I'll be a bit scarce for a while.  I will keep all my brothers and sisters in my prayers on our Lenten Journeys!  Good night my friends

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## TER

> I love your updates, HB.  
> 
> I'm giving up the internet except for an hour on Sundays so I'll be a bit scarce for a while.  I will keep all my brothers and sisters in my prayers on our Lenten Journeys!  Good night my friends


A blessed Lent to you my brother.  May The Lord bless you all the days of your life!  I have had my fun tonight (thank you green73 for the laughs!) but I must be heading to bed as I have work early tomorrow.  My presence here until Pascha will be scarce as well.  Good night my fellow believers and non-believers, may we all continue to fight for what is right and pray at all times for peace.

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## heavenlyboy34

Here are the Old Testament challenge daily readings for Lent: http://abounamansour.org/oth-documen...st_Revised.pdf

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## heavenlyboy34

First Sunday of Great Lent toady, celebrated as Sunday Of Orthodoxy.  'Twas a very beautiful service.  There was a procession of icons done by the children.  So I had lots of icons to kiss.   The Epistle (for the Forty Martyrs Of Sebastia) was Hebrews 12:1-10. The Gospel was John 1:43-51.  

After liturgy there was a nice feast of mideastern fare-I don't know the names of most of it, but it was quite good.   Today was the first meeting of the Lenten book club.  We are reading and discussing "The Brothers Karamazov".  Sadly, the leader of the club, Aaron, forgot to tell us which chapters to read, so I was only prepared to discuss the first few. :/  I'll be ready for more next week.   The biographical discussion of Dostoevsky and discussion of the novel so far has been interesting.  In future meetings, we will discuss how the story ties in with Lent.

More on the Sunday Of Orhtodoxy and triumph over iconoclasts here: http://lent.goarch.org/sunday_of_orthodoxy/learn/

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## heavenlyboy34

Just heard from Fr. Chris.  This Sunday I will be formally accepted as a catechumen.   After Liturgy we will pray together and spit on the devil.

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## eduardo89

> Just heard from Fr. Chris.  This Sunday I will be formally accepted as a catechumen.   After Liturgy we will pray together and spit on the devil.


Congratulations HB, I'm very happy for you

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## heavenlyboy34

> Congratulations HB, I'm very happy for you


Спасибо большой!  Целую!

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## TER

> Just heard from Fr. Chris.  This Sunday I will be formally accepted as a catechumen.   After Liturgy we will pray together and spit on the devil.


Such wonderful news HB!  Glory to God for all things!

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## heavenlyboy34

New update: today Fr Chris sent me a copy of the order of this Sunday's service for me to print off and bring along. It will go like this:



> PRAYERS AT THE RECEPTION OF CATECHUMENSThe Priest breathes three times on the face of the catechumen while making the sign of the cross
> on the brow and breast saying:
> PRIEST: In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
> DEACON: Let us pray to the Lord.
> CHOIR: Lord have mercy.
> Then the Priest lays his hand upon the catechumens head and continues:
> PRIEST: In Thy Name, O Lord, God of truth, and in the Name of Thine Only-begotten Son, and of
> Thy Holy Spirit, I lay my hand upon Thy servant, N., who hast been found worthy to flee to Thy
> Holy Name and to take refuge under the shelter of Thy wings. Remove far from him his former
> ...


I wish I had the Creed memorized , but I'll use the script for now.

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty nice service.  I and the other Catechumenate were brought to the front and formally welcomed as Catechumen.  The process went almost exactly as the copy-paste I did prior.    My fellow parishioners have been very nice and welcoming to me.

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## heavenlyboy34

Good news-Phil, who I asked y'all to pray for some months back, has returned.  He is in a wheelchair, with both legs broken.   Continue to pray for his full recovery.

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## heavenlyboy34

Another lovely Liturgy today.  We spent a good amount of time commemorating the late Metropolitan Phillip.  Epistle reading was from Paul's epistle to the Hebrews, 4:14-5:6.  The gospel was Mark 8:34-9:1.  Book club was cancelled   Aaron had too many papers to grade.  I was given pictures from my part of the service last week.

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## RJB

I went today as well.  It was a beautiful Liturgy.   However combining the Liturgy of St. Basil with a service for two recently departed people it was a bit long for my younger kids.

Thankfully, this church has a lot of small kids and the parents and grandparents just exchanged knowing smiles with the disruptions

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## heavenlyboy34

> I went today as well.  It was a beautiful Liturgy.   However combining the Liturgy of St. Basil with a service for two recently departed people it was a bit long for my younger kids.
> 
> Thankfully, this church has a lot of small kids and the parents and grandparents just exchanged knowing smiles with the disruptions


Fr. Chris likens childrens' babbling and such to singing to God.  When you think of it that way, it's more pleasant.

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## heavenlyboy34

Another beautiful liturgy.  Our choir director accepted my suggestion WRT organizing the seating chart, and it worked as well as I imagined it would. J We did the Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great.  Epistle reading has Hebrews 6:13-20, and the Gospel was Mark 9:16-30. 
Fr. Chris’ sermon focused on spiritual suffering as a means to spiritual growth, endurance, and character.  I was fortunate enough to see Ludmilla and Phillip today and got some big ~hugs~. 
After liturgy, everyone else went downtown for the Hearts 2 Hands project (for feeding the homeless).  I, unfortunately, couldn’t go because for various reasons.  I stopped into the gift shop and found a really beautiful orthodox cross icon, which I purchased.  I will scan it to share ASAP. ETA: I also got a new recording of Fr. Chris chanting, which I will share with y'all ASAP.

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## Terry1

> Another beautiful liturgy.  Our choir director accepted my suggestion WRT organizing the seating chart, and it worked as well as I imagined it would. J We did the Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great.  Epistle reading has Hebrews 6:13-20, and the Gospel was Mark 9:16-30. 
> Fr. Chris sermon focused on spiritual suffering as a means to spiritual growth, endurance, and character.  I was fortunate enough to see Ludmilla and Phillip today and got some big ~hugs~. 
> After liturgy, everyone else went downtown for the Hearts 2 Hands project (for feeding the homeless).  I, unfortunately, couldnt go because for various reasons.  I stopped into the gift shop and found a really beautiful orthodox cross icon, which I purchased.  I will scan it to share ASAP. ETA: I also got a new recording of Fr. Chris chanting, which I will share with y'all ASAP.


Great news that you had such a wonderful liturgy today HB.  How wonderful it is that you are all feeding the homeless.  Thank the Lord for those wonderful people in your Church answering their calling and doing the "works of faith" that our Lord has called us to do.  God Bless you!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Great news that you had such a wonderful liturgy today HB.  How wonderful it is that you are all feeding the homeless.  Thank the Lord for those wonderful people in your Church answering their calling and doing the "works of faith" that our Lord has called us to do.  God Bless you!


Thanks, and God bless you as well!  ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

The fifth Sunday of Great Lent.  Lots of interesting music to perform, as usual.  James didn't show up at all, the little bugger. :P Among other things, Fr Chris discussed St Mary of Alexandreia, repentance, and taking responsibility of one's actions/sins.  

Apparently the procession during Pascha is going to be done by candlelight, so I will have to know the music well enough to sing it in near darkness.   Some fun chat and fellowship after liturgy, as usual.

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## heavenlyboy34

I reckon today's liturgy was the biggest and busiest of any service I've been to in any church.   All the people that usually don't come to church showed up.  Then we had the Palm Sunday liturgy, which included extra music and a procession.  Having never played in a marching band, I did not know how hard it would be to walk and sing the chant at the same time.    I was given a small palm fraun folded into the shape of a cross.   So, the service went ~a half hour longer than a usual liturgy.  Afterward, Corrie bought me a fallafel (the Church teens and ladies made fallafel and hummus to benefit the church).   Mideastern food is soooo nummy. 

Here's the bulletin from today for those interested: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/wp-content...in20140413.pdf

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## heavenlyboy34

Tonight was Good Friday liturgy and Lamentations.  REALLY powerful service.  Tons of singing and the procession, the latter all by candlelight.  Nobody saved a hymn text book for me, so I had to look onto the next fellow's, which was rather annoying.  The procession went out the parish and around the campus, then back into the parish.  I had to sing the text while walking, by candlelight.     It wasn't so bad, because it was just a few processional tunes repeated a few dozen times or so.  At one point, the wax guard on my candle got smacked and I got some hot wax on my hand. :/ lol  I blew it out, put the guard back on and re-lit it from the next fellow's candle.  When we got back into the parish, we did most of the usual affairs-kissing the icons, getting blessings, and listening to Fr. Chris' sermon.   This time we were seated in the front row instead of the loft, so the accoustics were different and interesting as we performed the final tunes/litanies.  Those who have not been to a Good Friday liturgy should absolutely go, no matter what your denomination.  I can almost guarantee you'll love it.

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty nice Pascha Vespers toady.   Aside from chant, we did a reading of the gospel in as many languages as there were speakers present.  There were a dozen or so languages represented.  I was the only Russian speaker there and ready at the moment, so I read it in Russian.  Fr. Seraphim and the other native speakers there in attendance, according to Fr. Chris, were very impressed with me.   It was very easy to read stuff, too.  Not bookish or clumbsy.

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## heavenlyboy34

New Sunday/Anti-Pascha toady.  Sunday of Thomas the Apostle.  Another good long liturgy.   Choir rehearsal was kind of a pain though, as the other basses and tenors skipped it for various reasons. :P  Several showed up at the last minute, though.  Some lolz-y moments during liturgy.   At one point, Olivia thought the priest's verse of chant was done and began conducting the choir in the next tune.  Then she realized the mistake and we all had some lolz.   Got my blessing from Fr. Chris this week, which is new.  He's usually so busy I just wait in another line.  After liturgy the clergy and many parishoners went downtown for another hearts2hands event (feeding the poor).  Nice day. 

ETA: also got some hugz n' kissez from a variety of people.

----------


## Terry1

> New Sunday/Anti-Pascha toady.  Sunday of Thomas the Apostle.  Another good long liturgy.   Choir rehearsal was kind of a pain though, as the other basses and tenors skipped it for various reasons. :P  Several showed up at the last minute, though.  Some lolz-y moments during liturgy.   At one point, Olivia thought the priest's verse of chant was done and began conducting the choir in the next tune.  Then she realized the mistake and we all had some lolz.   Got my blessing from Fr. Chris this week, which is new.  He's usually so busy I just wait in another line.  After liturgy the clergy and many parishoners went downtown for another hearts2hands event (feeding the poor).  Nice day. 
> 
> ETA: also got some hugz n' kissez from a variety of people.


HB--are you addicted to hugs & kisses?  Seems to be a good thing to become addicted to.

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## heavenlyboy34

> HB--are you addicted to hugs & kisses?  Seems to be a good thing to become addicted to.


Yes I am.   Church is one way I get my fix...   :P  Srsly, though-hugs release happy chemicals inside ya...

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## heavenlyboy34

Today was the 40 day trisagion for Metropolitan Phillip, R.I.P.  Very beautiful service.  Here's the bulletin: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/wp-content...in20140504.pdf

After liturgy during coffee hour in the TLB, there was extra food because the ladies were expecting more people to show up.  So, I got seconds and thirds.  All kinds of nummy hummus, fancy breads, etc.

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## heavenlyboy34

Just got the news that our director will be doing more chanter work and won't be able to run rehearsals on Sunday in the foreseeable future.  I haz teh sad.   Fortunately, the music will be quite straightforward.

----------


## RJB

After all the talk of incense last night I had to go to our Orthodox Church.  As usual, I really enjoyed it.  The Gospel reading talked of the paraplegic whom Jesus asked if he wanted healing.  The food and fellowship afterwards was really good as well.

Another Roman Catholic who I regularly see there and at daily mass told me that a priest who does the Byzantine Rite may be coming to our area soon.  

I hope you don't mind me posting this in your thread, HB.  My thread got a bit trolled...

----------


## eduardo89

> Another Roman Catholic who I regularly see there and at daily mass told me that a priest who does the Byzantine Rite may be coming to our area soon.


I've always wanted to regularly attend a Byzantine Rite Church. Sadly, none near me, especially now that I just moved to a tiny island in the Caribbean for at least the next 8 months!! (actually just moved here last night)

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> After all the talk of incense last night I had to go to our Orthodox Church.  As usual, I really enjoyed it.  The Gospel reading talked of the paraplegic whom Jesus asked if he wanted healing.  The food and fellowship afterwards was really good as well.
> 
> Another Roman Catholic who I regularly see there and at daily mass told me that a priest who does the Byzantine Rite may be coming to our area soon.  
> 
> I hope you don't mind me posting this in your thread, HB.  My thread got a bit trolled...


Nah, I don't mind positive/construvtive contributions.

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## heavenlyboy34

Rather brief but beautiful liturgy today.   "Mother's Day Special", I suppose you could call it. LOL   We talked briefly about mothers, godmothers and godparents in Church history, which I thought interesting.  

Most everyone left after liturgy to celebrate, so I just came back home.

ETA: Fr. Chris also discussed briefly the history of conversion into the Church, why it takes so long, etc.

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## heavenlyboy34

Another beautiful liturgy toady.  40 day trisagion in memory of someone IDK.  Fr Chris talked quite a bit about how we as Christians should not be caught up in secular mainstream-ism because it is so anti-Christian, and I agree.  He used that fellow from Duck Dynasty as an example.  I don't have a TV, so I have to just take folks' word for it WRT specific things.  No rehearsal this morning, so I got to sleep in late.   The bulletin is available here: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/assets/fil...tin/index.html

ETA: Teh kids had a graduation from Sunday School and got little diplomas.  It was an "awwww, cute" moment. 

ETA2: 




> Fifth Sunday of Pascha - Sunday of the Samaritan WomanMartyrs Peter, Dionysios, Andrew, Paul, Christina, Heraklios, Paulinos and
> Benedimos; Stephen the New, Patriarch of Constantinople

----------


## Natural Citizen

> The bulletin is available here: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/assets/fil...tin/index.html



I think this is it...

http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/wp-content...in20140518.pdf

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## heavenlyboy34

> I think this is it...
> 
> http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/wp-content...in20140518.pdf


Upper right hand corner-click "CLICK HERE FOR THIS WEEK'S BULLETIN".

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## Natural Citizen

> Upper right hand corner-click "CLICK HERE FOR THIS WEEK'S BULLETIN".


Right but what if I were to click on yer link _next_ Sunday? Hm? Then what?

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## Terry1

> Upper right hand corner-click "CLICK HERE FOR THIS WEEK'S BULLETIN".


Very nice church HB, sounds very friendly and inviting.  I haven't attended mine yet--I will get there, but my Sundays are hectic.  I was going to attend the huge Cathedral downtown, but I've decided to go to the Greek Orthodox that's closer to home.  I hate going downtown and fighting all of that traffic.  I will let you know when I get there--LOL

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## heavenlyboy34

> Right but what if I were to click on yer link _next_ Sunday? Hm? Then what?


If it's been updated, you'll see next Sunday's material.  When it's updated varies.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Very nice church HB, sounds very friendly and inviting.  I haven't attended mine yet--I will get there, but my Sundays are hectic.  I was going to attend the huge Cathedral downtown, but I've decided to go to the Greek Orthodox that's closer to home.  I hate going downtown and fighting all of that traffic.  I will let you know when I get there--LOL


I've never been to a Greek church, but have seen videos.  Their liturgy seems to be similar to the Antiochian.  Orthodoxy is pretty "standardized" for a number of reasons historical and cultural, so you'll find the big things like communion, service order, etc are the same save for idiomatic details in any parish you attend.   ~hugs~

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## TER

*Three Basic Prerequisites to the Spiritual Life*



By Protopresbyter Fr. Gerasimangelos Stanitsas


*1. The Salvific Work of Christ*


The Incarnation of the Son of God is the fundamental prerequisite for the true life of man, to be united with God. Since man is the image of Christ who is the unchanging image of the Father, the "firstborn of all creation", the union of the two natures of Christ is the basic element of His existence. For man to become a true man he must become like Christ. The Incarnation negates the barrier of nature that separates man from God, while the Resurrection of Christ negates sin and death.


*2. The Sacramental Life*


The Body of the Incarnate and Risen Christ is the Church, the Body of Christ. The recreation and spiritual rebirth of man takes place in the Church through the Mysteries, especially Baptism, Chrismation and the Eucharist. In the Mystery of Baptism the reconstruction of man takes place and new spiritual functions are activated through Holy Chrismation. The Eucharist is the completion of the Mysteries. It is the source of the spiritual life and spiritually nourishes man. It is thus understood that the spiritual life is not personal or private, but ecclesiastical.


*3. Human Cooperation*


The Mysteries of the Church do not magically change man into a spiritual being. Man with his free cooperation needs to utilize the gifts given by God. Salvation is the fruit of divine and human synergy, which is why the Mysteries do not operate without our effort. This path requires spiritual asceticism and continuous repentance. The spiritual life is Christocentric, a life in Christ, because communion with Christ gives substance and life to man.


With this we understand the necessity for a spiritual life today. Christ did not come to teach or correct certain things in the world, but to become Himself the Life of the world, our Life. "I am Life". He did not come for the world to live better, but to actually save the world. Without God the world has no life, which is why the Church is not an ethical system of life, but transfuses the only true Life, who is Jesus Christ.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady-6th Sunday of Pascha: Sunday of the Blind Man & Third Discovery of the Forerunner's Honorable Head.  No rehearsal toady because it was all pretty well-known stuff.  I was 5 minutes late.   Epistle-2 Corinthians 4:6-15; Gospel-John 9:1-38.  My voice was better than usual, though. 

Fr. Chris talked about some of the stuff that's been forum fodder lately...~Bad events happen to give us opportunity to do good and glorify God.  ~God does not cause, but allows bad things to happen ("anti-karma", as Fr. Chris calls it)

Chatted with friends during fellowship hour.  Corey insisted I eat something (because I'm "too thin"...lol), so I got myself some free donuts and fruits and such.  Also got a bunch of ~hugs~ n' ~kissez~.

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## RJB

> Toady-6th Sunday of Pascha: Sunday of the Blind Man


Speaking of the Blind man

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## heavenlyboy34

> Speaking of the Blind man


lolz

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## TER



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## heavenlyboy34

Very nice.   It's not nearly as elaborate as a Byzantine rite liturgy, but that captures the essence of it.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady:Sunday of the After-feast of the Ascension
Commemoration of the Holy Fathers of the First Ecumenical Council
Martyr Justin the Philosopher & Companions at Rome; Archimandrite Justin Popovic
of Serbia; Hieromartyr and Bishop Pyrros the Virgin; Martyr Thespesios of
Cappadocia; Venerable Dionysios the Wonderworker of Glushetsk
Bulletin available here: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/stay-in-touch/

Very nice music, though several singers were out.   The epistle reading was Acts 20:16-18, 28-36, and the Gospel was John 17:1-13.  Fr. Chris is in NY this week for a meeting.  Dn. Daumit delivered the sermon toady.  He went into detail about what "glorify" means in this gospel passage...that is, to serve.  I didn't have my notes, so that's all I have toady. :/

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## TER

Pentecost coming up next Sunday my brother.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Pentecost coming up next Sunday my brother.


w00t!   Forgot about that...I'm probably going to be very busy that day.  Maybe even have some new music to learn.   You know, we're halfway through the year already?  Only 6 months till my Chrismation!  w00t!

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## heavenlyboy34

Great Feast of Pentacost toady.   A bit of extra music to practice.  Churches I've been to previously don't celebrate Pentacost, so it was interesting for me.  The gospel was John 7:37-52; 8:12.  Epistle was Acts 2:1-11.  This is primarily what Fr. Chris spoke about, as well as what's going on with the new Metropolitian.

Lots of nummy food.  Zita bread, hummus, fruit of all sorts, sweet breads, etc.    Not many ~hugs~ being handed out toady...pretty busy and stressful day for most, apparently.

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## heavenlyboy34

All Saints Day and Father's Day celebrated toady.    Fr Chris' homily focused on that.  No rehearsal, so I was able to attend most of Orthros.   Epistle reading-Hebrews 11:33-12:2.  Gospel-Matthew 10:32-33, 37-38; 19:27-30.  Classic fubar...during the call/response part of the readings, Olivia accidentally started the response before Dn. Daumitt was finished.  LOLZ.  One of these days when I have time, I want to learn Byzantine chant properly.  

Afterwards in fellowship hour there was a ridiculous amount of food, so I got a few platefuls and saved some for later.   Got lots of ~hugs~ n' cheeky kisses, orthodox style.  Most kiss both cheeks in the Slavic manner, which I've always found interesting considering it's a Byzantine rite parish.

----------


## TER

*The Eucharist is 

*_By Fr. Alexander Schmemann_




 The Eucharist is a mystery, the very mystery of joy, the mystery of all mysteries, the mystery of the Church.

 The Eucharist is a joyful gathering of those who are to meet the risen Lord, and they enter with him into the bridal chamber.

 The Eucharist is an action, by which a  group of people become something corporately, which they had not been as  a mere collection of individuals. It is the essential attitude, and the  essential act of the Church, which is the new humanity, restored by  Christ, one transforming act, and one ascending movement.

 The Eucharist is a procession of the Church following the ascension of Christ.

 The Eucharist is a journey of the Church into the dimension of the Kingdom.

 The Eucharist is a real separation from  the world. We always want to make Christianity understandable and  acceptable to the mythical modern man on the street, and we forget that  the Christ of whom we speak is not of this world, and that after his  resurrection, he was not recognized, even by his own disciples. We do  not realize that we never get anywhere because we never leave any place  behind us. The Eucharist is an entrance of the Church  into the joy of its Lord, and to enter into that joy so as to be a  witness to it in the world, is the very calling of the Church, its  essential ministry, the mystery by which it becomes what it is. It is an  entrance into the risen life of Christ, the very movement of the  Church, as passage from the old into the new, from this world into the  world to come.

 The Eucharist is a manifestation of the  Word of God. God will speak to us. His eternal Word will be given to us,  and we will receive it. The Eucharist is a movement, the movement  that Adam failed to perform, and that, in Christ, has become the very  life of mana movement of adoration and praise, in which all joy and  suffering, all beauty and all frustration, all hunger and all  satisfaction, are referred to their ultimate end, and become finally,  meaningful. It is real life, a movement of love and adoration toward  God, the movement in which, alone, the meaning and value of all that  exists can be revealed and fulfilled.

 The Eucharist is an offering. It is our  offering to him of ourselves, of our life, and of our whole world, to  take into our hands the whole world, as if it were an apple, said a  Russian poet.

 The Eucharist is a sacrifice, but it the  most natural act of man, the very essence of his life. Man is a  sacrificial being. Because he finds his life in love, and love is  sacrificial, it puts the value, the very meaning of life, in the other,  and gives life to the other, and in this giving, in this sacrifice,  finds the meaning and joy of life. It is, indeed, a sacrifice offered on  behalf of all, and for all.

 The Eucharist is Christ, himself. The  Eucharist is his Eucharist, and he is the Eucharist. It is he who  offers, and it is he who is offered. Christ is the perfect man, who  stands before God. Christ, alone, is the perfect Eucharistic being. He  is the Eucharist of the world. In and through this Eucharist, the whole  creation becomes what always was to be, and yet, failed to be.

 The Eucharist is the memorial of Christ.  It is the mystery of cosmic remembrance. It is, indeed, a restoration of  love as the very life of the world. Remembrance is an act of love. God  remembers us, and his remembrance, his love, is the foundation of the  world. In Christ, we remember. The church, and its separation from this  world, on its journey to heaven, remembers the world, remembers all men,  remembers the whole creation, and takes it, in love, to God. We  remember his life, his death, his resurrection, one movement of  sacrifice, of love, of dedication to his father, and to men. This is the  inexhaustible content of our remembrance.

 The Eucharist is the lifting up of our  offering, and of ourselves. The Eucharist is the ascension of the Church  to heaven. We have entered the Eschaton, and we are now standing beyond  time and space. It is because all this has first happened to us, that  something will happen to bread and wine. It is our ascension in Christ.

 The Eucharist is the state of perfect man.  When man stands before the throne of God, when he has fulfilled all  that God has given him to fulfill, when all sins are forgiven, all joy  restored, then there is nothing else for him to do, but to give thanks.  When a man stands before God, face to face, when he has been accepted  into his presence, when his sins are forgiven, and he has recovered his  pristine beauty, the Eucharist, thanksgiving, adoration, worship, is  truly the ultimate and the total expression of his whole being. It is  the divine element, the image of God in us, the life of paradise, the  one essential relationship with God, the only full and real response of  man to Gods creation, redemption, and gift of heaven. It is a new style  of life, the only real life, of creation with God, and in God, the only  true relationship between God and the world. In sin, man has lost that  pure Eucharist. He has directed his life, his love, his care, toward  other objects. He has become incapable of Eucharist, thanksgiving, which  is the state of man in paradise.

 The Eucharist is the breakthrough that  brings us to the table in the Kingdom, raises us to heaven, and makes us  partakers of the divine food.

 The Eucharist is the end of the movement.  We are at the Paschal table of the Kingdom, the end of the journey, the  end of time. It is the arrival at a vantage point from which we can see  more deeply into the reality of the world.

 The Eucharist is the mystery of unity and  the moment of truth, the very expression and edification of the Church.  Here, we see the world in Christ, as it really is, and not from our  particular, and therefore, limited, and partial, points of view.

 The Eucharist is communion with the whole  Church. It is the supreme revelation of the communion of the saints, of  the unity and interdependence of all the members of the Body of Christ.  It is judgment and condemnation to people who do not see Christ in the  Church, but see in it merely human pride and arrogance, selfishness, and  the spirit of this world. It is the breaking of the bread, the one  source of life that brings all to it, and redeems the unity of all men  under one head, Christ, the mystery of forgiveness, the mystery of  reconciliation achieved by Christ, and eternally granted to those who  believe in him. It is the essential food of the Christian, strengthening  his spiritual life, healing his diseases, affirming his faith, making  him capable of leading a truly Christian life in this world, the gift of  eternal life, an anticipation of the joy, peace and fullness of the  Kingdom, a foretaste of its light. It is both partaking of Christs  suffering, the expression of our readiness to accept his way of life,  and sharing in his victory and triumpha sacrificial meal, and a joyful  banquet. His body is broken, and his blood is shed, and partaking of  them, we accept the cross. Yet, by the cross, joy has entered the world,  and this joy is ours when we are at the Lords table. It is given to  me, personally, in order to transform me into a member of Christ, to  unite me with all those who receive him, to reveal the Church as a  fellowship of love.

 The Eucharist is the mystery of the Kingdom, the fullness and manifestation of the Church as the age to come.

 The Eucharist is our secret joy and  certitude, the source of inspiration and growth, the victory that  overcomes evil, the presence that makes our whole life, life in Christ.

 The Eucharist is the beginning, and things  that were impossible are again revealed to us as possible. The time of  the world has become the time of the Church, the time of salvation and  redemption.


 _Fr. Alexander Schmemann_

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady: 


> Sunday, June 22, 2014





> Second Sunday after Pentecost& Second Sunday of Matthew Hieromartyr Eusebios, Bishop of Samosata; Martyrs Zeno and his servant Zenas of Philadelphia in Arabia; Alban, protomartyr of Britain; Martyrs Juliana and her sonSaturninus of Constantinople; Venerable Anastasia of Serbia



Fr. Chris is performing a wedding toady, so Fr Mansour substituted.  His very thick accent is hard to understand, especially from far away, so IDR everything he spoke about. /shrugs  Scripture reading was Romans 2:10-16 and Matthew 4:18-23.  Link to teh bulletin: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/wp-content...in20140622.pdf

It was nice to catch up with friends after church.  Also got better acquainted with Jack, who is an excellent chanter.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady we celebrate St.'s Peter and Paul in the Orthodox Church.   So, they were the focus of the homily.  Choir was off this week, so I was sitting in the parish for the first time in many moons.   I don't like it as much.  The chanters were in charge of the music.  Parishioners told me afterward that it wasn't nearly as good as the full choir.  We also had a dedication of children and trisagion for someone who died 40 days ago.  Ludmilla Hashem recently wrote a new icon and it was dedicated toady.   She's an excellent iconographer and awesome Russian lady. 

Gospel-Matthew 16:13-19 Epistle-Corinthians 11:21-12:9.  

Afterward was a nice fellowship hour.  Lots of hugz n' kissez.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady Fr. Chris allowed the youth pastor to deliver the homily because it's a requirement for his studies.  Anyways, no new tunes to learn and no rehearsal, but I gave tenor a shot...and apparently did okay because no one complained.   I am disappoint with myself for sleeping in too late and missing the first few minutes, though. :/  Epistle-Romans 6:18-23 Gospel-Matthew 8:5-13.  During fellowship myself and bunch of other folks had interesting discussion about orthodoxy and comparative religion.   Kind of like what goes on here except civil and respectful.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady-Sunday of the Holy Fathers of Fourth Ecumenical Council.  Epistle-Titus 3:8-15, gospel-Matthew 5:14-19.  Fr  Chris spoke about "authentic Christianity"-that is, bearing witness without pretense-to be the light of the world Christ in us.  Lots of hugs, kisses, n' lulz during coffee hour.

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## TER

*People as Liturgical Beings – Part 1*



We usually characterize people as rational and independent beings. These attributes are correct enough, but don’t convey human nature in its completeness.

Through the liturgical experience, we feel that, more than anything, people are liturgical beings. They were made to serve, to offer themselves and the whole world to God with gratitude, praise and worship, to unite with God, to be sanctified, to live, through this continual offering/sacrifice/service.

Rationality, independence and the other attributes were given to us for this reason, so that we can put ourselves into this liturgical relationship with the Triune God. In this liturgical ascent, people act as being ‘in the image’ and are elevated to being ‘in the likeness’.

Life in Paradise was a Divine Liturgy. Together with the angels, Adam and Eve served the Holy Trinity. With the fall into egocentrism they lost the possibility of offering themselves and the world to God in a Eucharistic manner and thus of taking part in the joint ministry in Paradise.

Self-exiled from the Liturgy in Paradise, they found themselves on earth without the function of the Liturgy. ‘The ‘in the image’ was no longer active. Some remnants and sparks from the prelapsarian function of service remained within them. These moved them to build altars and to carry out sacrifices to God.

At best, this worship was fragmentary, a shadow, a type. It didn’t bring people into perfect communion and union with God. It didn’t give us the Holy Spirit. It didn’t save us from death. It did, however, encourage in us the desire for the true Messianic Liturgy. This desire and vision gave hope to the people who were sitting in darkness and the shadow of death.

The Heavenly Father’s love could not leave us without liturgical service. By His providence, the Word was made flesh. Jesus Christ, the Great High Priest, began the joint ministry of the New Testament.

The Liturgy of the New Testament could only have been instituted by Christ, because Christ alone was able to offer Himself and the whole world completely to the Triune God. There were people who sacrificed in the Old Testament, too. There were no sacrificial victims. Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice and at the same time the perfect person to perform the sacrifice. The unblemished sacrifice. The Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world…


People- and the world- without Liturgical function, being un-liturgized fell into the power of the devil and of death. With His death on the Cross and His Resurrection, Christ redeemed us from this enslavement, liberated us and gave us the chance to take part in the joint ministry of the New Testament. That is, to offer ourselves to God, to thank God and to praise Him. In being offered and offering all things with Christ to God, we serve as people. That is ‘in the image of God’. We become _real_ people.

The Liturgy of the New Testament is greatly superior to the Liturgy in Paradise. Now the High Priest is the Son of God Himself. The Mother of God and the Saints concelebrate and together praise the All-Holy Trinity ‘with ceaseless mouths and unflagging praises’.

Every baptized Orthodox Christian who dies in order to live takes part in this joint ministry. In this shared Liturgy people find their true nature and their true repose, their real ‘in the image of God’ self. Outside this shared Liturgy, people may be _**** Sapiens_ or _**** Economicus_ of the Socialist or Capitalist society, but not the rulers of creation, not the tipping point between the created and uncreated world and ‘in the image of God’.

The Divine Liturgy of the New Testament began with the incarnation of the Word and is continued into the far future by the Great High Priest. Every Divine Liturgy celebrated at the altars on earth is a participation in time in this timeless, everlasting Liturgy. ‘We sinners also cry aloud with the Blessed Powers, Master and Lover of Humankind, and say: ‘Holy You are and Most Holy…’.

Every Priest and Bishop who celebrates at the earthly altars ‘performs the priestly function of Christ in the Church’ (canon of Carthage). He doesn’t have his own priesthood. He takes part in the unique Priesthood of Christ.

Our greatest sin today is that we don’t have a Liturgical function. We don’t offer and aren’t offered to God and to our fellow human beings.

It was once considered an insult to say that somebody was ‘un-liturgized’. Today, however, because of our unbelief and hardness of heart, it’s considered natural, whereas it’s unnatural and weird for people to exercise a Liturgical function.

Even when people today ‘go to church’, it’s hard to know whether they really do exercise a Liturgical function, that is whether they take part in the Universal Mystery of the Eucharist and of the Church, whether they understand the Divine Liturgy not simply as a religious and social duty but as an offering and sacrifice to God, in Christ. It’s possible even for someone to celebrate the Divine Liturgy as a priest and yet in essence to be outside the Liturgy, because he doesn’t offer himself and all things to God.

These Christians outside the Liturgy, clergy and laity, basically don’t live. According to the Revelation, ‘You have a name for being alive, but you are dead’ (3, 1).

_Liturgy has many meanings in Greek and Abbot George plays with most of them. It means ‘the Liturgy’, ‘service’, ‘ministry’, and ‘function’ and, while I have tried to find what seems to me to be the best in each instance, it has not been possible to convey the overlapping of meanings that are present in the Greek. For the term ‘__αλειτούργητος__’,_ _I commend the relevant entry in Lampe, which if, you’ll forgive the pun, is most unenlightening._ WJL.

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## TER

*People as Liturgical Beings – Part 2*

People who offer ‘your own from your own, in all things and for all things’ serve God truly and pleasingly. That is, people who recognize that whatever they have is a gift from God. They believe that they’ve got nothing of their own to offer. Everything’s from God and they take from that and offer it to God, together with themselves, their world and their relations with the world. They keep nothing selfishly for themselves. They offer themselves without reservation. They give everything in order to receive everything. They die in order to live. And they offer everything in Christ and for Christ. In all things (always) and for all things (for all God’s gifts).


So the whole of people’s lives (even after the Divine Liturgy and outside the church) becomes service, offering, relationship, sacrifice, communion and thanksgiving. The whole of life is transformed into a theanthropic life.

The two hour Sunday Liturgy becomes a twenty-four hour, daily Liturgy. As Orthodox, when we speak about a liturgical life, we don’t mean our short liturgical offering in the church, but the whole of our life, which, starting with the liturgical actions in the church, becomes one of liturgy and worship.

Orthodox Christians aren’t schizophrenic. They don’t live a liturgical life inside the church and an unliturgized life outside. They spend as much time as they can in church (Liturgy and services) so that they’ll be able to live outside the church in a manner as close as possible to the spirit, the climate and the ethos of the Divine Liturgy.

Through worship in the church, the theanthropic life becomes ingrained in them and is then capable of transforming all the facets of their everyday lives.So Christians permeated by the Liturgy live in the unity of faith and life, the divine and the human, the created and the uncreated, the living with the departed, the present age with the future, their own person with others.

This unity was also experienced by the Greek, Orthodox people when, and as long as they had an ecclesiastical life. There are still, in Greece, traditional, Orthodox people and communities who live in this unity. The centre of the whole life of traditional Orthodox settlements (villages and neighbourhoods) was the parish church, as the _katholiko_ is in monasteries. In villages on Evia [Euboea], the parish church to this day is called the _katholiki._ (i.e. _katholiki ekklisia_).

Birth, death, baptism, marriage, school, work, social relations, joys, and sorrows, all the expressions of social life were linked to the Liturgy and the Church. In the end, they became the Church. So the everyday functions of life found their unity and order of precedence within the Divine Liturgy.

The further the Greek people distance themselves from their Orthodox roots, from their life-giving, theanthropic tradition, the less the various functions of life are organically linked to the Divine Liturgy, which is why they stop working properly, which is to say they fail to unite people or help them to live as images of God.The various functions outside the Divine Liturgy deconstruct the human person. This is clear from the basic function of life, procreation. Within the Divine Liturgy and the Church, this fundamental function is transformed, is blessed with grace, and contributes towards the rounding out of the human person. Outside, it’s the slave of egotism, it undoes personalities and is a torment. People today have bitter experience of this situation.

Orthodox coenobitic monasteries are models of how people and their communities should function. The centre is the main church (_katholiko_). Buildings and obediences are all organized around the main church. The starting-point of the common life is the daily celebration of the Divine Liturgy. The purpose is the worship of God and the offering of the whole of life to Christ. This is how life can be common, faith and love universal, death can be vanquished and everything made new and given a different role in a strange and most fitting adjustment.

When the liturgical spirit of the coenobium- which is the liturgical spirit of Orthodoxy- becomes ingrained in the Orthodox, they’re preserved from the powerful and vitiating trend towards secularism. In essence, secularism is an attempt to organize life outside the Liturgy and the Church.Orthodox Christians can’t be Orthodox unless they live liturgically. Unless the Divine Liturgy and worship are not merely ‘opportunities’ or part of their timetable, but are, instead, the life-giving shoot grafted on to their lives and transforming them, the centre, the basis, the beginning and the end. It’s only through the ‘your own from your own’ in the Divine Liturgy that people truly become themselves, that is images of God.

*Source*: The late, former Abbot Yeoryios (George) of the Holy Monastery of Blessed Gregoriou, from the periodical «Ο Όσιος Γρηγόριος», § _Ο__άνθρωπος__ον__λειτουργικό__,_ περίοδος β΄, vol. 4, pp. 31-5, published by the Holy Monastery  of Blessed Grigoriou, the Holy Mountain, 1979.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady's bulletin: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/wp-content...in20140720.pdf

Pretty slow day.  No choir, as our director is in CA this week.  Fr. Mansour delivered the homily.  He has a charming but sometimes unintelligible accent.   Not sure why Fr. Chris wanted a break. :/  Got some hugz n' kissez.

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## heavenlyboy34

A pretty ordinary Sunday.  The seventh Sunday of Matthew.  Fr. Chris is at St. Nicholas camp this week, so Fr. Mansour delivered the homily.  A number of flubs and oops moments that were lolzy.   Rather low attendance toady, so I felt somewhat lonely. :'(  I was fortunate to spend a good amount of time with Phil and Ludmilla during coffee hour.

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## TER

HB, an inquirer to the Church just posted this on another forum after his first experience of the Divine Liturgy today. I thought you might like it. 

My thoughts during the service.
Divine Liturgy begins at ten.
immediate thoughts: wow this cathedral is freakin beautiful. Small congregation, that's cool I guess.
Hey, a few more people came in, I guess it's not such a small congregation.
Woah where are all these people coming from? I guess there is no "church starts strictly at 10" rule. This is a huge congregation.
You know a church is legit when the depictions of Jesus aren't a European white guy.
Are they burning incense or something? It smells good in here.
Holy crap this place is beautiful. Idk if I should just look at the art on the ceiling or watch the service.
I wonder if tom hanks has ever been here...?
What are those priest guys doing? Hey buddy we are behind you, your facing the wrong direction.
Wow. A lot of standing. I want to sit down but if I sit down they'll know I'm not one of them. Oh jeez they are doing that cross motion with their hands again. Come on sluttygrizzlybear, act natural.
Not sure if just bread.... Or sacrament... I guess I won't eat any.
I need to use the restroom but they closed the door with a rope thing. Oh oh they opened it ok, I'll go now.
I return MORE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN?! SERVICE STARTED AT 10 FOLKS.
I love the chanting. It helps me focus.
The priest(?) is addressing the congregation. Talking about Christ. Great sermon. Thumbs up.
Service ends
Well that was weird, beautiful, mysterious, and uplifting. I think I just might be back next week...

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## heavenlyboy34

> HB, an inquirer to the Church just posted this on another forum after his first experience of the Divine Liturgy today. I thought you might like it. 
> 
> My thoughts during the service.
> Divine Liturgy begins at ten.
> immediate thoughts: wow this cathedral is freakin beautiful. Small congregation, that's cool I guess.
> Hey, a few more people came in, I guess it's not such a small congregation.
> Woah where are all these people coming from? I guess there is no "church starts strictly at 10" rule. This is a huge congregation.
> You know a church is legit when the depictions of Jesus aren't a European white guy.
> Are they burning incense or something? It smells good in here.
> ...


  Did this happen at your parish, by chance?  I am amused.  People come in really late at St George, too.  I've heard that it's common for Orthodox to not be all that punctual.

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## heavenlyboy34

Eighth Sunday after Pentacost and Eighth Sunday of Matthew.  Epistle I Corintihians 1:10-17, Gospel Matthew 14:14-22.  Pretty ordinary Sunday.  

In Fr Chris' Homily he touched on Genesis a bit-how it is about who God is, and the rest are supporting details.  The first part was written during the Babylonian exile, and God shows himself to be the true God, rather then the Babylonian Gods.  The word for "create" is tied to the word for "heal" in Hebrew, so God's creation is a type of healing, except ex nihlio creation.

Had a bunch of watermelon and lemonade afterward.  And some lolz with friends.

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## heavenlyboy34

Another busy, busy day.   9th Sunday after Pentacost and 9th Sunday of Matthew.  Epistle-Corinthians 3:9-17.  Gospel-Matthew 14:22-34.  Fr. Chris touched on some things that have been controversial around here.  i.e., God is not the author of evil and goodness in transcendant.  I heretofore did not know that Adama means "all things" as well as "earth/ground".   I thought that was interesting because it provides a new understanding of _ex nihlio_ creation.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady:
Dormition of the Theotokos.  Tenth Sunday after Pentacost and Tenth Sunday of Matthew.  Gospel: Matthew 17:14-23.  Epistle: Corinthians 4:9-16.  No new music to rehearse toady.  

Fr. Chris did a good homily.  He talked about how "Walk" in Hebrew is to "live the fullness of one's life".  It is in this sense that Noah "walked" with God.  To us as Orthodox, it means that our Church life is part of how we walk with God-a lifetime journey.

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## Suzanimal

Have you been Confirmed yet? Just curious.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Have you been Confirmed yet? Just curious.


Chrismation will happen at Christmas.  We haven't set an exact date yet.  This year, the Catechumenate was divided into Pascha(Easter) and Christmas groups.  I'm in the X-mas bunch.

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## TER

*God’s Bread*



link HERE

Our  contemporary life is often deeply removed from reality. We eat like  royalty, travel like magicians, taking everything for granted. In 1991, I  was serving in a parish (Anglican) that sponsored a Russian family for  immigration. The Soviet Union had fallen, but little had changed in  their homeland. I recall taking them to their first visit to an American  grocery store with their translator. It was like a dream to them. Their  first question startled me, “Is all of this for sale?” They had an idea  that it might just be “for show.” I was humbled as I realized how much I  took for granted.


  This distance between us and the simple reality of our lives makes it  difficult for us to understand the gospel. When the Scriptures speak of  bread, we have no feeling for the word. Bread is just something we eat  (or avoid). Today it is something we debate and fear (gluten). But it  means very little to us.

 The context of the Scriptures is not necessarily a context of  scarcity, but it is certainly a context where drought produces famine  and seasons determine what is eaten. According to paleontologists, human  civilization begins with the cultivation of grain. Hunters and  gatherers cannot sustain life on the level of a town. Grain was as  essential as fire in the history of humanity.

 This distance, it seems to me, also interferes with our comprehension  of the sacraments. In my Anglican years I recall a common clergy joke  about the wafers used in the liturgy. It was said that there were two  acts of faith: to believe that the bread became the Body of Christ, and  also to believe that the wafer was actually bread. I would extend this  even to contemporary Orthodoxy. The bread is obviously bread (it is  baked in the parish and is leavened). But our hearts are deeply removed  from even its “breadly” reality.

 Bread has been called the “staff of life.” In ancient Greece and Rome  the bread ovens were often public, maintained at city expense. The  baking of bread was thus something of a community event (a custom that  probably stretched deep into time). It was the essential food of the  ancient diet, the primary form of charity. In the early Church, members  brought loaves of bread as an offering. The deacons chose the best  loaves for the liturgy. The rest were shared afterwards or distributed  to the poor.

 In Orthodox Churches of the Russian tradition, small loaves  (prosphora) are baked and given to the priest with a list of names to be  remembered.



The  priest removes particles from the loaves and places them on the diskos  along with the Eucharistic offering. The names and loaves are returned  to the faithful who take them home and consume them – often as part of  their morning prayers. It is a Eucharistic connection that continues  throughout the week.

 Few would desire to return to the dangers of famine. Nevertheless, we  would do well to return to a proper attitude towards our food. We  should eat slowly and thankfully, with a mind towards the goodness of  God and the labor that has produced our bounty.

 In my recent trip to England I was struck by the amount of farmland.  Everywhere outside of villages, the land was given to farming. The wheat  fields in particular were “white for the harvest.” America has seen the  shrinking of its farmland over the entire course of its history. Recent  decades have been especially hard. It is possible for children to grow  up with no awareness of farms or where the food they eat comes from.  There is clearly a diminishment of our humanity in all of this.

 Eucharistic living is marked by the giving of thanks. It is also  marked by the presence of bread. Bread is as essential to the Eucharist  as is Christ Himself. In His great condescension, the Lord of the  Harvest has united Himself with the harvest itself.

“Lord, give us this bread always.”
_
O God, our God, Who didst send the Heavenly Bread, the food of  the whole world, our Lord and God Jesus Christ, to be our Savior,  Redeemer, and Benefactor, blessing and sanctifying us:  Bless this  Offering, and accept it upon Thy heavenly altar.  Remember those who  offered it and those for whom it was offered, for Thou art good and  lovest mankind.  Preserve us blameless in the celebration of Thy divine  mysteries.  For sanctified and glorified is Thy most honorable and  majestic name: of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,  now and ever and unto ages of ages.  Amen._

From the Service of Preparation

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## heavenlyboy34

Slower than usual toady.  Fr. Chris talked about Abraham, the Trinity, and the meal they shared.  With hospitality and love, there is only good.   Epistle-Corinthians 9:2-12.  Gospel-Matthew 18:23-35.

11th Sunday after Pentacost & eleventh Sunday of Matthew.  Martyr Eutyches, Disciple of John the Theologian; New Hieromartyr Cosmas Aitolos, equal-to-the-Apostles and Evangelizer of southern Albania; recovery of the relics of Dinysios, Bishop of Zakinthos and of Peter, Metropolitan of Moscow.

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## heavenlyboy34

Lonnnng and very busy service toady.  As before mentioned, the myrrh-streaming icon was present toady.  I was blessed to have the opportunity to venerate her.   I opted not to take any of the myrrh, as I'm sure there are people more in need of the blessing than I.  Aside from the standard hymns like the anaphora, we had a whole bunch of Theotokos tunes.  One or two I didn't know, but was able to sight read them fine. 

gtg for a bit, but I'll finish this entry later.

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## heavenlyboy34

toady-Busy but not as stressful as a special liturgy.  Gospel-John3:13-17, Epistle-Galatians 6:11-18.  Fr. Chris dealt with Sodom and Gemorrah in his homily.  It is a metaphor for us-that we need to be purified on occasion through the sacrements.  It is also important to be saturated in Church life, to avoid low culture, and to read scripture.

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## heavenlyboy34

Mildly busy day toady.  Bulletin is here.  Sunday before Elevation of the Holy Cross & Transfer of the Feast of Nativity of The Theotokos.  I can't find my notes on the sermon right now. :/ Moar on that when I get it.  The music was mostly stuff I know pretty well, so no major issues there.   After church was fellowship hour, per usual.  Some interesting mideastern cuisine I've not tried before along with usual fruits and veggies and snacky things.  Had an interesting conversation with Nathan about the irrationality of the hatred many heterodox have toward the orthodox Church and its people.  We chatted a lot about the kind of debates and petty name calling that goes on when certain denominations of people (like the militant anti-Church contingent on RPFs) and how silly/tragic it is.

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## heavenlyboy34

WRT last week-pics of the blessings of teen SOYO leaders:

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## heavenlyboy34

Icon for toady:

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty busy day, but not too stressful.   Sixteenth Sunday after Pentecost & First Sunday of Luke  Gospel-Luke 5:1-11  Epistle-Corinthians 6:1-10  Had pleasant chats with friends afterward, with big hugz n' kissez on the side.

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## RJB

> Pretty busy day, but not too stressful.   Sixteenth Sunday after Pentecost & First Sunday of Luke  Gospel-Luke 5:1-11  Epistle-Corinthians 6:1-10  Had pleasant chats with friends afterward, with big hugz n' kissez on the side.


My youngest boy was raising Heck.  I took him outside during the epistle reading and a few other times.  His favorite thing to do is escape and run straight for the altar.  I jokingly told my wife that the kid has her Baptist DNA because he looks like he's constantly attempting an Altar Call.

12 October is my big day!  No it's not because the Walking Dead premiers, but I am looking forward to that too.

God bless you my brother!!!

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## heavenlyboy34

> My youngest boy was raising Heck.  I took him outside during the epistle reading and a few other times.  His favorite thing to do is escape and run straight for the altar.  I jokingly told my wife that the kid has her Baptist DNA because he looks like he's constantly attempting an Altar Call.
> 
> 12 October is my big day!  No it's not because the Walking Dead premiers, but I am looking forward to that too.
> 
> God bless you my brother!!!


God bless you too, comrade! ~hugs~ Wish my day was as close as yours. :/  Next week is the Feast Of The Middle East at my parish.   Looking forward to nummy food, entertainment, fellowship, and all that good stuff.  If her schedule is clear, I'll be bringing my lady friend as well.

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## Terry1

Hey guess what I just found out today.  I had my monthly meeting with my agency as I do every single month.  It's the same people that come every month.  So today I was speaking with the new male administrative nurse who's going to be coming to my home every month now and guess what--he's a Russian Orthodox! 

He saw the books I was reading on Orthodoxy sitting on the dining room table and then asked me if I was also EO.  From that point on--our discussion was all about the church--  Well--I'm going to be looking forward to my monthly meetings from now on since Anthony will be visiting me on a regular basis.  In fact he told me that he was going to request that my case remain under his care from this point on--it was such good news!.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hey guess what I just found out today.  I had my monthly meeting with my agency as I do every single month.  It's the same people that come every month.  So today I was speaking with the new male administrative nurse who's going to be coming to my home every month now and guess what--he's a Russian Orthodox! 
> 
> He saw the books I was reading on Orthodoxy sitting on the dining room table and then asked me if I was also EO.  From that point on--our discussion was all about the church--  Well--I'm going to be looking forward to my monthly meetings from now on since Anthony will be visiting me on a regular basis.  In fact he told me that he was going to request that my case remain under his care from this point on--it was such good news!.


w00t!  The Lord works in mysterious ways.

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## heavenlyboy34

hustly-bustley day!    Final day of the mideast festival.  Had some yummy food and enjoyed the music and chat with amigos.   Fr. Chris wants me to email him later this week to set up a time for my Chrismation.

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## RJB

> hustly-bustley day!    Final day of the mideast festival.  Had some yummy food and enjoyed the music and chat with amigos.   Fr. Chris wants me to email him later this week to set up a time for my Chrismation.


Awesome.  Keep us informed.

This week, in preparation of my Chrismation, I'm thinking of taking an internet fast and spending the time reading the bible and the 10 or so different books my friends in my parish have loaned me, lol.

God Bless!  I'm excited for you, and Terry  and  my family!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Awesome.  Keep us informed.
> 
> This week, in preparation of my Chrismation, I'm thinking of taking an internet fast and spending the time reading the bible and the 10 or so different books my friends in my parish have loaned me, lol.
> 
> God Bless!  I'm excited for you, and Terry  and  my family!


Thanks! ~hugs~ xoxoxoxo!!

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## Deborah K

May the Lord bless and keep you all!  <3

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## Terry1

> Awesome.  Keep us informed.
> 
> This week, in preparation of my Chrismation, I'm thinking of taking an internet fast and spending the time reading the bible and the 10 or so different books my friends in my parish have loaned me, lol.
> 
> God Bless!  I'm excited for you, and Terry  and  my family!


Me too--yeah--keep us informed HB.

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## Terry1

> May the Lord bless and keep you all!  <3


You too Deb!   God bless!

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## heavenlyboy34

> May the Lord bless and keep you all!  <3


Thanks, purdy lady! ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

I just noticed some yahoo deducted a star from this thread's rating...at least one of you is crazy (in a bad way). :P

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## heavenlyboy34

Forgot to update-my Chrismation is coming up 11/1/2014.

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## RJB

> Forgot to update-my Chrismation is coming up 11/1/2014.


That is VERY close!!!  I'm so happy my brother.  

I prayed for you on my Chrismation today.  I'll post in detail about it later, but it's hard to put it into words the love one has for and feels from God.  Each week I want to start a thread about how awesome*** the Eucharist is.  

Also, thankfully, your thread is kept troll free.  I like mentioning good news in here...

***I usually hate the word awesome because it's over used and misused--  here it is actually appropriate.

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## Terry1

> That is VERY close!!!  I'm so happy my brother.  
> 
> I prayed for you on my Chrismation today.  I'll post in detail about it later, but it's hard to put it into words the love one has for and feels from God.  Each week I want to start a thread about how awesome*** the Eucharist is.  
> 
> Also, thankfully, your thread is kept troll free.  I like mentioning good news in here...
> 
> ***I usually hate the word awesome because it's over used and misused--  here it is actually appropriate.


Congrats on your Chrismation RJB.  Were you glowing or not?

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## Suzanimal

Congrats RJB, I thought you're RC. Did you switch teams on us?  




> That is VERY close!!!  I'm so happy my brother.  
> 
> I prayed for you on my Chrismation today.  I'll post in detail about it later, but it's hard to put it into words the love one has for and feels from God.  Each week I want to start a thread about how awesome*** the Eucharist is.  
> 
> Also, thankfully, your thread is kept troll free.  I like mentioning good news in here...
> 
> ***I usually hate the word awesome because it's over used and misused--  here it is actually appropriate.

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## TER

> That is VERY close!!!  I'm so happy my brother.  
> 
> I prayed for you on my Chrismation today.  I'll post in detail about it later, but it's hard to put it into words the love one has for and feels from God.  Each week I want to start a thread about how awesome*** the Eucharist is.  
> 
> Also, thankfully, your thread is kept troll free.  I like mentioning good news in here...
> 
> ***I usually hate the word awesome because it's over used and misused--  here it is actually appropriate.


Congratulations my brother in Christ.    Welcome home to the Church of the New Covenant in Christ, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of your Christian forefathers.  May our Triune God fill you with the joy and blessedness of His love and of His light all the days of your life, in this world and in the next, and may He always strengthen you in mind, spirit, and body and keep you in the hopeful and expectant anticipation of His heavenly Kingdom, where we will find our everlasting peace and joy in eternal and blessed comfort by His Divine Grace.  For there, even the joys of this world will seem small compared to the great gifts He will bestow upon those who love Him and who do His holy will.  Glory to God in Heaven!  Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and until the ages of ages!

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## RJB

> Congrats RJB, I thought you're RC. Did you switch teams on us?


Same team but I'm definitely wearing the Orthodox jersey.

I'll post about it some time in the future, but the Holy Spirit was both pushing me and pulling me in this direction since 2005.  Attending my first Divine Liturgy last year was the final pull.

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## heavenlyboy34

Fairly ordinary day, but people seemed to be in a better mood toady.   Epistle-Titus 3:8-15 Gospel- Luke 8:5-15  Some notes I took during Fr Chris' homily: ~Man cannot change without suffering-suffering is necessary for spiritual growth ~our power is in weakness and suffering ~suffering is not God's punishment, but an opportunity to help others, repent, and be more Christ-like ~suffering->growth->hope and endurance.

Got lots of hugz n' kissez, too.   I have to pick a godparent soon.  I already have one in mind.

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## heavenlyboy34

Per Fr. Chris' suggestion, I've scheduled my first confession 15 minutes before chrismation.   Edit: that time turned out to be unavailable.  Had to take the earliest available time on 10/28.

Update: Fr. Chris examined my baptism certificate and says it's valid.   No need to be dunked again.

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## heavenlyboy34

YAY!!!  I found a godmommy.  Её зовут Людмилла. (Her name is Ludmilla)    Pretty ordinary day overall.  19th Sunday after Pentecost & third Sunday of Luke.  Epistle 11:31-12:9  Gospel Luke 7:11-16.  IMO, fire11 would've enjoyed the homily.  Fr. Chris talked about pr0n and how it physically changes the brain-as well as the spiritual problems with it.

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## heavenlyboy34

Fairly ordinary day.  It seems all my friends are coming to my chrismation this week.   Exchanged contact info with my godmother.

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## RJB

> Fairly ordinary day.  It seems all my friends are coming to my chrismation this week.   Exchanged contact info with my godmother.


I'll be there in spirit.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I'll be there in spirit.


w00t!

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## heavenlyboy34

Finished my confession toady.   Now comes chrismation, first communion, and the beginning of a lifelong journey.

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## heavenlyboy34

It was  a really beautiful Chrismation ceremony.  After all the catechumen read  our chrismation scripts, I partook in my first holy Orthodox  communion!    It was interesting as well as meaningful.  Being raised  in Baptist and non-denominational congregations, there were always  wafers/bread and grape juice that represented the body and blood of  Christ.  This eucharist is very unusual and new to me-partly in that it  uses wine and a different sort of bread-but also in its rejuvenating  nature.  I was caught off guard by this and couldn't remember the  communion prayer, but _c'est la vie_.



Many  more people than I expected came.  Many hugs and kisses all around.   My godmother Ludmilla gave me an orthodox crucifix necklace, a prayer  rope, and a book called "The Resurrection And Modern Man" by Ignatious  IV.  I feel so spoiled and blessed.    Another issue with the  ponytail as mamechka put the necklace around my neck, but it worked  after a few errors.



During  the anointing with Chrism, I had to move my ponytail aside so Fr. Chris  could anoint my neck.  Kind of awkward and funny, but it worked.   Afterward, Fr. Chris did a short talk about Chrismation and the history  of it.


Also,  there were baptisms of 2 infant boys, which was beautiful and  interesting.  As you know, Protestant chuches don't do infant baptisms  at all, so it was a first for me.    I can't think of anything else to  mention at the moment, but I may later.

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## RJB

Welcome home

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## heavenlyboy34

> Welcome home


It's good to be home at last!  ~hugs~

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## moostraks

Sounds awesome. I am happy you have found your home...

~~~peace on your path

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## TER

Today, my brother, was your first Pascha, for every time we celebrate and partake of the Eucharist, we are entering into the Kingdom and the Paschal joy of Christ, together with the all of the Church, from the beginning until now.  It is fitting therefore, since every Eucharistic celebration is the parousia of Christ amongst us, that I offer to you the Paschal sermon of St. John Chrysostom that is read every year on Holy and Great Pascha:

If any man be devout and loveth God, let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast! If any man be a wise servant, let him rejoicing enter into the joy of his Lord. If any have laboured long in fasting, let him how receive his recompense. If any have wrought from the first hour, let him today receive his just reward. If any have come at the third hour, let him with thankfulness keep the feast. If any have arrived at the sixth hour, let him have no misgivings; because he shall in nowise be deprived therefore. If any have delayed until the ninth hour, let him draw near, fearing nothing. And if any have tarried even until the eleventh hour, let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness.

For the Lord, who is jealous of his honour, will accept the last even as the first. He giveth rest unto him who cometh at the eleventh hour, even as unto him who hath wrought from the first hour. And He showeth mercy upon the last, and careth for the first; and to the one He giveth, and upon the other He bestoweth gifts. And He both accepteth the deeds, and welcometh the intention, and honoureth the acts and praises the offering.

Wherefore, enter ye all into the joy of your Lord; receive your reward, both the first, and likewise the second. You rich and poor together, hold high festival! You sober and you heedless, honour the day! Rejoice today, both you who have fasted and you who have disregarded the fast. The table is full-laden; feast ye all sumptuously. The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away. Enjoy ye all the feast of faith: Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness.

Let no one bewail his poverty, for the universal Kingdom has been revealed. Let no one weep for his iniquities, for pardon has shown forth from the grave.

Let no one fear death, for the Saviour's death has set us free. He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it.

By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive. He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh. And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry: Hell, said he, was embittered when it encountered Thee in the lower regions.

It was embittered, for it was abolished.
It was embittered, for it was mocked.
It was embittered, for it was slain.
It was embittered, for it was overthrown.
It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains.
It took a body, and met God face to face.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.
O Death, where is thy sting?
O Hell, where is thy victory?
Christ is risen, and thou art overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave.
For Christ, being risen from the dead, is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
To Him be glory and dominion unto ages of ages.

Amen.


Congratulations my brother in Christ!  May God bless you always in His Kindgom!

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## heavenlyboy34

Thank you, TER!   I am reminded of a line from a Russian liturgy I once heard quoted in a secular play- Смерт, где твоё жало! (death, where is thy sting!)

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## Terry1

> It's good to be home at last!  ~hugs~


Congrats hb!  I'm still on the road, but I'll see ya on the porch real soon brother.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Congrats hb!  I'm still on the road, but I'll see ya on the porch real soon brother.


Keep us updated!  ~hugs~

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## TER

> It's good to be home at last!  ~hugs~


My brother, to find the Church of Christ, the one described in the New Testament, and to become a member of this body of the incarnate Christ in the word, within the Temple which is the Church, the living assembly of the faithful, it is exhilarating.  It is strengthening and joyful.  It brings peace, answers hope, instills courage, and gives blessed joy.  But we must never forget the words of Christ Who said "To those who have been given much, much will be asked of them', and that 'whoever puts themselves first, will be last'.   Remember my brother, our lives are not our own.  Ours lives belong to God. Though we entered this world naked and in a way alone as did the incarnate Lord of the Angels, we enter the Kingdom as a Church, as a gathering, as a Bride prepared before the foundation of the world.  In unity of faith, in harmony of worship, and in communion in flesh and spirit made manifest by the Body and Blood of Christ, we are now consummated through the grace of God not as individuals alone, and apart, and in individualistic singularity, but like the image of the Trinity, we are united as One Body, One Bride, One Church, with God the Holy Spirit, and through God, with the Kingdom of Heaven, and all the angels and saints. 

But in the new life in the royal priesthood of which you have been anointed into today, our mission is of obedience and service to The Lord, to offer to Him the gifts in which He has given us, to pray for the people and the Church and for the whole world, and to live so as to sanctify through God's grace the world around us.  To do this in the way commissioned by Christ, we must always conform our wills, subdue our passions, and purify our thoughts so as to grow in humility, love, mercy, charity, and forgiveness.  We pray to God for this, for Him to grant us the power and will to do this, knowing it is through Him whereby we grow in virtue into the stature of His beloved Son Jesus Christ.  

The initiation into the body is complete, and now the work as a soldier begins.  In the early ancient Church, after the faithful were baptized just before the celebration of the Holy Eucharist on Easter Sunday, the neophytes would spend the entire following week in deeper catechism into the doctrines and mysteries of the faith.  Only after being purified through Baptism and illuminated with the Holy Spirit were they introduced into the great truths of the faith, with regards to living and worship and witnessing in their evangelism and life.  Wearing their white baptismal robe and still unbathed from the day of their baptism and anointing with the Holy Chrism, they spent the entire week (this, by the way is the origins of Bright Week following Easter Sunday) preparing to enter back into the world no longer as the old man, but now as the new man, renewed and refashioned in Christ.  At the end of the week, the assembly of believers would gather for worship and unity through the Eucharist, and the newly illumined would stand in a line as the bishop would go by and lay his hands on their head, bless them in prayer, and they would go change out of their white baptismal clothes and wash up.  They then were sent out as guardians of the faith and like soldiers sent out to battle.  The battle against their passions, the demons, and the world which fights against them, and they knew that this new life would require much sacrifice, much cross-bearing, and could very well lead to martyrdom and death, all for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

Our path into the Church means we must crucify our passions and our evil will, and be ready to take up the cross for the truth and for our neighbor, and in the humility of the publican and the love of the Good Samaritan, forgive those who persecute us and pray for all people, including our enemies. 

 All things become useless, all things obstacles, all things separate us from God if done without mercy and love.  Now go out my brother and fellow soldier in the Church,  and fight for peace, justice, mercy and love!

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## TER

One more note, we as a Church are not individuals alone and apart from one another.  We are members of one body, the Body of Christ in the world.  This means that though we have a personal relationship with God, and it is our union with God which saves us and sanctifies us, only in communion with God and each other do we actualization the ekklesia, the body.  That means that what we do we are never alone.  There is a cloud of witnesses from above and a communed gathering in this world.  When we pray for mercy, we pray not only for ourselves, but for the brethren as well.  And when we sin, our sins are within this body as well, affecting the whole of the brethren in a real way.  If the ear is bad, do not the eyes have to work harder?  And if the knee is bad, does it not add more stress to the other leg?  From a rotting appendage, is not the entire body threatened with poisoning?  

 We know by the promise of Christ this body can never die, for Christ is the head and the Holy Spirit the life of the body, and the Church herself is a proof and testament to this, but parts can die off and branches can wither away when the unity is disrupted.  And this is an unfortunate reality in this world but a necessary function so that the faith might be remain undefiled and the offering kept pure.

The medicine for when we stumble and fail is confession and the Eucharist.  This is the way Christ has granted us as balm for our wounds and medicine for our souls and bodies.

Therefore, look always towards Christ alone for our salvation and instruction, and to His saints look for how we too should model our lives.  For they have modeled their's to Christ before us and by their faithful witness, humble obedience, and love for God they are as pillars to the Church in which you are now joined.

Anyways, I have babbled enough.  It is time for me to get some rest before tomorrow.  Good night my brother and God bless you.

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## heavenlyboy34

Very beautiful first Sunday of being orthodox toady.   We newly baptized orthodox stood with our godparents for initiation and many pictures.  We also recited together the Creed.  Nathan was kind enough to give me a beautiful icon of the Nativity Of Christ.   It's very elaborate and only ~3X3", so at first I thought it was a dormition of the Theotokos icon till I got a closer look.     It was all very overwhelming and beautiful, so I may remember some more interesting details later.  

Aftetr liturgy I got to talk with my godmother a long time.   Mostly about orthodoxy and my thoughts on various things about it.  

Gospel Luke 16:19-31
Epistle Galatians 2:16-20

ETA: during the liturgy my godmother and I, along with the other catechumen, did a procession around the church by candlelight (each of us holding hands with our respective sponsor/godparent).

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## heavenlyboy34

I just noticed that tomorrow this thread will be exactly 1 year old.  Happy anniversary!

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## heavenlyboy34

Another busy day, but not too bad.  Nektarios of Aegina and Pentapolis, the Wonderworker & Seventh Sunday of Luke.  Epistle-Ephisians 5:8-19.  Gospel-Luke 8:41-56.  After liturgy, choir buddies and I had lunch and a long chat about the things Fr Chris discussed in his homily.  Lots of hugz n' kissez, of course.   My mamechka didn't come toady though, and I haz teh sad.

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## heavenlyboy34

toady's epistle-1 Corinthians 4:9-16  gospel-Matthew 9:9-13.  Not too stressful toady.   Had some surprisingly interesting conversation at lunch hour.  Only saw mamechka briefly.   Её скучаю.  Fr. Chris' homily was mostly about how we as a Church are called to make disciples of the nations and proclaim the Gospel.  Apparently, 80% of people who begin coming to church or return do so because they were invited by an acquaintance.

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## heavenlyboy34

Fairly ordinary day toady.  I got into the wrong section in the choir-meant to be tenor-but did fine as bass.  It was actually easier because my voice has been scratchy due to allergies and bass range is easier.  We celebrated St. Andrew the First-Called.  It was interesting to me because churches I've been to before never made much of a deal about him.  Gospel-John 1:35-51, Epistle-Corinthians 4:9-16.  Had a nice lunch with my godmother after liturgy.  We chatted about various issues and trials I'm going through ATM (stuff I won't talk about on teh interwebz).  A bunch of hugz and kissez at lunch, too.  <3

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## heavenlyboy34

Slow day toady.  Fr Chris was out and Fr Monsour delivered the homily.  The primary thing that stuck out to me was the part about St. Nicholas the wonder worker.  He became a bishop of Mirah and attended the 1st Nicean Council. Gospel:  Luke 13:10-17, Epistle: Ephesians 5:8-19.  This week we did a more obscure version of "Holy God" in 3/4 that has a sort of waltzy/doo-wop sensibility.A

fter liturgy, hugz n' kissez with my godmother and long, interesting chat about mideast politics/war with comrade Chris (bass singer of arab descent).

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## heavenlyboy34

Rather pleasant day toady.   No surprises in the music.  It's choir and chanter appreciation day-I feel appreciated.   We celebrated Saint Sebastian during liturgy.  Fr. Chris talked about liturgy generally and the mystery of it.  Some notes I jotted: *Christ is our life like the Prodigal Son's father *Liturgy is the Lord's banquet *Christ is literally in the Word and in the communion elements.

Epistle-Collossians 3:4-11  Gospel- Luke 14:16-24

Mama couldn't make it toady.  I had teh sad.   Plenty of hugz n' kissez, though. 

Aaron's name day toady, so Corrie made a ridiculously rich chocolate cake from a family recipe of Aaron's.

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## heavenlyboy34

С днем рождество христова!  Special Christmas vesperal liturgy tonite.  Pretty simple, but beautiful.  Only a handful of choirfolk showed, so I had to cover tenor till a tenor showed.  I was surpised to find we played Western Christmas songs like Joy To The World at the end.  But it was fun because it was a singalong and the parishioners got to play.  My mama surprised me with a Christmas gift.   I was like, awwww!   It's a nice dyptych icon and a scented candle.   Afterward many hugs n' kisses, and I taught Fr. Chris how to properly pronounce "С днем рождество христова"-which he tried and failed during his homily.  I thought is was a nice homily because Fr Chris managed to bring Plato's Cave allegory into it...in the sense that Nativity gives us an opportunity to flee to a "cave" for spiritual refuge.E

epistle-Galations 4:4-7 gospel- Matthew 2:1-12

ETA:  Just thought of something odd to mention from the other day.  In the middle of the Great Litany, one of Jack's grandkids was playing on the stairs and fell down the _whole flight_ of steps.  We kept on performing, though..played it cool.  According to Jack, the kid's okay. (no crying or anything) I pray so, as it sounded like a nasty fall.

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty ordinary Sunday.  Someone took the cover page off the last few bulletins, so I got one with no cool cover art.   Fr. Chris was out for some reason, so Fr. Mansour did the homily. /sadz

After-Feast of Joseph the Betrothed, David the Prophet and King, and James the Brother of the Lord.  Epistle-Galatians 1:11-19  Gospel-Matthew 2:13-23.

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## heavenlyboy34

Forefast of and Sunday before Theophany of Christ.  Synaxis of the Seventy holy apostles; venerable Theoktistos of Sicily, Venerable martyrs Euthymios and his 12 companions of Vatopedi Monastery on Mount Athos.  Fairly typical day.  I'm rather irked because I went early for scheduled rehearsal and NOONE showed.   Anywayz, More people showed up this week than last week, so the workload was lighter.  gospel-Mark 1:1-8, epistle-Timothy 4:5-8.  Got to see my Godmommy and favorite people.  Handed out links to my blog to new interested parties.

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty ordinary Sunday.  after-feast of and Sunday after the Theophany of Christ.  Theodosios the Great, head of monasteries (Cenobiarch); Venerable Theodosios of Philotheou monastery on Athos; Venerable Agapios of Apamea in Syria; Venerable Michael of Klops, Fool-For-Christ.   Got the opportunity to chant_ ison_ a bit, which was interesting. Met Chris and Megan's mommy(Nicole), which was cool.  Nice lady.  My godmama is sick, so I didn't see her toady.  :'(  Fr. Chris' homily focused on commitment, particularly to God.  I have a few notes about it...in return for commitment to God we get salvation, which is freedom from sin/death. /// Commitment to living in Christ begets blessings. /// The goal of the faith is to love others.

Gospel: Matthew 4:12-17  Epistle: Hebrews 13:7-16

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady-Athanasius and Cyrill (Cyrill is my saint's name!  ), Patriarchs of Alexandria & 12th Sunday of Luke.  Martyr Theodoula of Anazarbus and her companions; Maximos, Serbian ruler.  Pretty busy day.  Way too many basses today and I felt crowded...switched to tenor.  

Fr. Chris briefly discussed Islam to compare/contrast with Orthodoxy.  He then spent a long time discussing how Joshua prefigures Jesus-leading people back home, for example.  The story of Joshua and Jericho conquest was written during Babylonian exile, and theologians tell this story figuratively to describe their return.

Epistle: Hebrews 13:7-16  Gospel Luke 17:12-19

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady-Gregory the Theologian, Archbishop of Constantinople and Fifteenth Sunday of Luke (Zaccheaeus) Venerable Demetrios the Sacristan; New-Martyr Auxentios of Constantiople.
Homily was delivered by Fr. Paul.  Was able to jot a few notes.

*"Zaccheus" comes from a root word meaning "to atone"   *The sycamore tree is only mentioned in Luke.  Jesus saves Zaccheus from the error of salvation by works  *The fig tree is a metaphor for Israel  *scriptures interpret themselves to the reader after long exposure to them *obedience to God saves, not deeds  *the will of God is the good, not that of man.  Actions should be done simply because they are right, not because of philosophy

Afterward was the parish meeting WRT budget and so on.  Even more boring than I thought it would be. :P

Epistle-Hebrews 7:26-8:2  Gospel-Luke 19:1-10

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## RJB

> *obedience to God saves, not deeds


That's a good way of looking at it.

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## heavenlyboy34

> That's a good way of looking at it.


  I thought it really neat too!  Fr. Chris hints at that sometimes, but doesn't get to the heart of it like that.  Makes me want to attend a vesperal service at the Russian church and see with the pastor there is like.

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## RJB

Hey HB and all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

I thought of you and this thread during Liturgy today.  I know there is a time zone difference but I knew our prayers were linked in the eternal heavenly worship described in Revelation.  

To "lay aside all earthly cares," really hits home.  The worship has always felt like home, but is deepening with each Liturgy.  It's a touch of heaven and I understand the martyrs' desire to be united fully with Christ.  As the Divine Liturgy is a sanctuary from the world, so is this thread a bit sanctuary. 

Peace

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hey HB and all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ!
> 
> I thought of you and this thread during Liturgy today.  I know there is a time zone difference but I knew our prayers were linked in the eternal heavenly worship described in Revelation.  
> 
> To "lay aside all earthly cares," really hits home.  The worship has always felt like home, but is deepening with each Liturgy.  It's a touch of heaven and I understand the martyrs' desire to be united fully with Christ.  As the Divine Liturgy is a sanctuary from the world, so is this thread a bit sanctuary. 
> 
> Peace


Thanks!   I meant to write about yesterday after liturgy, but things came up. :/  Sorry.  :'(  I'll try to do it toady or Tuesday.

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady...had rehearsal @9 to prepare for upcoming choir performances.  *yawns*  
Sunday of the Last Judgement. Apostle Onesimos of the 70; Venerable Eusebios of Syria; Martyr Major of Gaza Venerable Dalmatos of Siberia.  Gospel, Matthew 25:31-46.  Epistle, Corinthians I, 8:8-9:2.

Some notes from the homily...
*Commandments of Jesus-give us health in mind/body/soul, but they should be followed simply because God has sufficient authority
*God is never malicious
*To look at a brother/sister in Christ is to look at Christ
*a sense of entitlement makes us takers instead of givers, selfish instead of generous. (how relevant to our Welfare State!)

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty busy day.    Forgiveness Sunday-the huggy-est/kissy-est day of teh year, on which everyone in the parish reminds each other that God forgives them.  Along with hugz/kisses, of course.    Makes the liturgy run ~20-30 minutes longer, but worth it.  Churching of a girl named Emily.

Epistle Romans 13:11-14:4  Gospel Matthew 6:14-21.

Just a few notes from homily; *ekklesia automatically grows a family in Christ *The word strengthens us as Christians, along with forgiveness and fasting *where your treasure is and where you choose to be, there also your heart will be.

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## TER

*The Rite of Mutual Forgiveness*


 *Epistle:* Romans 13:11-14:4
*Gospel:* Matthew 6:14-21


 

On  the last Sunday before the beginning of the Great and Holy Fast, in  parish churches, cathedrals and monasteries chapels, Orthodox Christian  formally ask each other for forgiveness. We do this formally in the Rite  of Forgiveness: Forgive me a sinner! God forgives! Most of the people  from who we ask forgiveness today havent caused us any real harm. And  even in those few cases where offense was givenor takenthe harm is  almost always slight given unintentionally and without malice. In the  Rite of Forgiveness we have simultaneously two roles to fulfill.

  First, we stand as supplicants, as sinners in need of forgiveness not  only from God but from our brothers and sisters in Christ. We standI  standnot only before God but before His Body the Church and confess my  sinfulness: Forgive me a sinner!

 In response to my confession you respond God forgives! This  forgiveness is at the center of our life in Christ. At Agape Vespers on  Holy Pascha we will hear read in many languages (and see signed) how the  Risen Lord Jesus Christ bestows upon the Apostles the power to forgive  sins. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you  retain the sins of any, they are retained (John 20:23).  This authority to bind and loosen testifies to the truth of  Resurrection, to the triumph of Christ over the powers of sin and death  (see 1 Corinthians 15:56; Romans 6:7) which since the fall of Adam has kept humanity enslaved (see Romans 8:2) and held creation subject to decay (see Romans 8:20-22).

 But forgiveness is also the evidence of the hope that lies within us (see 1 Peter 3:15).  Like the Holy Eucharist, forgiveness is a foretaste of the Kingdom of  God which Christ will initiate when He shall come again, with glory, to  judge the quick and the dead (Nicene Creed). And it is here that we  see the second office we are asked to fulfill today.

 When you respond God forgives! you leave behind for the moment your  role as supplicant and insteadas the name Christian suggestsyou  confess that you are a disciple of Christ. C. S. Lewis says in _Mere Christianity (p. 199)

_the Church exists for nothing else but to draw men into  Christ, to make them little Christs. If they are not doing that, all the  cathedrals, clergy, missions, sermons, even the Bible itself, are  simply a waste of time. God became Man for no other purpose. It is even  doubtful, you know, whether the whole universe was created for any other  purpose.

To forgive in Christs name as we do today requires that we be  disciples of Christ, that we each of us be a little Christ or another  Christ (_alter christus_).  In the theological language of the Church, this what we mean when we say that we are called to a life of _theosis_ or deification.

 And so though while you being each exchange as a supplicant in need  of Gods mercy, you will finish as an icon of Christ. What you start in  repentance and humility, God ends in glory. St Irenaeus summarizes the  means and dignity of the Christian life when he writes that your glory  is in our willingness to persevere and remain in the service of God.  For this reason the Lord told his disciples: You did not choose me but I  chose you. Ireneaus goes on to say that Christ doesnt mean by this  that His disciples  glorify him by following him, but in following the  Son of God they were glorified by Him (Against Heresies, IV:14.1)

 In asking and extending forgiveness you not only testify to the  Resurrection. By Gods grace the exchange of mutual forgiveness reforms  your heart and your relationships with others. It is to this glory that  we are called today in the Rite of Mutual Forgiveness and it is this  glorythe glory of the Kingdom of Godto which we testify and  experience as we await the resurrection of the dead, and the life of  the world to come (Nicene Creed).

 Forgive me a sinner!

God forgives!

 In Christ,
 +Fr Gregory

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## TER

* The Meaning of Forgiveness Vespers*

By Fr. A.H.

With Forgiveness Vespers, which is celebrated on Cheesefare Sunday evening, Great Lent begins. This solemn period of repentance is offered to us as a way of life. A way of life that brings forgiveness from God, as well as from our brethren.

It is very characteristic what is written: "Forgive (συγχωρῶ) means to 'move forward' (χωρῶ) with God and with others." With forgiveness we do not only receive a simple absolution, which implies a legalistic concept of salvation. Rather, forgiveness with God is an ocean of divine goodness that erases human sins. And so in its full reality, forgiveness becomes communion with Christ and His Kingdom.

During the course of our journey, let us mutually support one another in our weaknesses, let us mutually forgive one another by forgetting our differences, let us mutually protect one another to reach our destination. Essentially we should live to what God calls us, as a unique unity with the forgiveness that we offer to others. This is because Christians are not part of a caste system, but we are dough.

Let us now kneel, therefore, before the icon of Christ and the Panagia, our Bishop and our Fathers, as well as our brethren, and let us ask for their forgiveness, since they have much to forgive us for. And let us forgive one another. Forgiveness does not begin when peace, calmness and joy begin to reign; forgiveness begins the moment we take on each others shoulders the "burdens of one another", and the first and heaviest load is the personhood of another, what that person is, and not what that person does or does not do. If necessary let us carry one another as Christ carried His Cross, as a type of torment, pain and death, but let us not allow someone behind under any circumstance without our forgiveness.

Source: Translated by John Sanidopoulos.

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## TER

*Forgiving Others: The Greatest Lenten Practice*

Posted on February 22, 201 by Fr. Ted 


 

Liturgically, we Orthodox enter Great Lent at Forgiveness Vespers.  

 The first thing, the most important thing we do for Great Lent is to  forgive from our hearts our fellow parishioners and our family members.
The sign of sincere love is to forgive wrongs done to us. It was with such love that the Lord loved the world.   _(St. Mark the Ascetic, THE PHILOKALIA, Kindle Loc. 3609-10)_

St. Peter of Damaskos reminds  us that it is forgiving others, more than anything else we do as  Christians, which will lead to God forgiving us.  Nothing, not fasting,  nor even repentance more quickly brings about God forgiving us than our  forgiving others!
Moreover, if we do not forgive others their debts, the  Father will not forgive us our debts (cf. Matt. 6:14). Indeed, nothing  leads more swiftly to the forgiveness of sins than this virtue or  commandment: ‘Forgive, and you will be forgiven’ (cf. Matt. 6:14).” _(THE PHILOKALIA, Kindle Loc. 26234-40)_
We of course read in the Orthodox Church the Matthew 6 Gospel about  forgiveness on the day before Great Lent begins.  We are reminded of the  utmost importance of forgiveness to our own spiritual lives.   The way  to being forgiven our sins, the way to repentance, the way to Pascha,  the way to the Kingdom of God is to forgive others.

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## heavenlyboy34

Long and busy day.  Lent keeps one busy, ya know.   First Sunday of Lent and Sunday of Orthodoxy.  (Celebration of victory over iconoclasm, FYI)  Pan-Orthodox liturgy too, which was interesting.  People from other parishes all over the valley came, and it was enormously busy.  After liturgy was lunch and chat about mideast politics and some lulz. 
Gospel: John 1:43-51 Epistle: Hebrews 11:24-26, 32-40

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty nice day overall.  This week's bulletin: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/stay-in-touch/

Commemoration of Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of Thessalonica

Theophylact the Confessor, Bishop of Nicomedia; Apostle Hermas of the Seventy



Last few weeks' bulletins: http://www.stgeorgeaz.org/stay-in-touch/

Toady we did the Liturgy of St Basil, which was a bit different than the usual St John Chrysostom liturgy.  Gospel: Mark 2:1-12  Epistle: Hebrews 1:10-2:3

40 day trisagion for Dn. Daumit, R.I.P.  

Had a long chat with an older fellow at lunch hour, IDR his name, that was pretty interesting.  He clearly understood the MIC and the regime's propaganda machine.  I was like !  

Saw my mamechka and most everyone else.

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## TER

by Apologia Pro Ortho Doxa

Biblical theology from an Eastern Orthodox perspective, with a focus on the way the Old Testament connects with the New Testament.

*A Biblical Theology of the Eucharist*

In Genesis 1, God creates the heavens and the earth, but the earth is without form, void, and dark. Importantly, the heavens are not. God created the angels as a host, instantly as mature as they ever would be. After the creation of the world, God proceeds to form, fill, and enlighten the world. The earth develops and grows towards the maturity of its heavenly model.

Genesis 2 recapitulates the seven days of creation in order. Without form, void, and dark is matched by:

(Genesis 2:5) When no shrub of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung upfor the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,

In other words, Genesis 2:5 is the condition which the world matures out of. How does it mature out of Genesis 2:5? When a man exists to cultivate the ground. The small plants of the field are the grain plants and fruit trees created in Genesis 1. Genesis 2:5 is matched by the curses at the end of Genesis 3. The earth grows fallen shrubs (thorns and thistles) and man will eat bread (mature grain plants) by the sweat of his nose, contrasting with the Spirit put in mans nose in Genesis 2:7.

Put these things together, and what we are to understand by this is that Gods intent was to mature creation when Adam harvested bread by the Spirit.

In order to understand the process by which man would harvest bread by the Spirit, one needs to understand the structure of the holy mountain, and how that is matched by the various temples in Scripture. The Tabernacle and Temple has three stories:

1. The Holy of Holies. This is matched by the Heaven of Heavens, the throne of God.
2. The Holy Place. This is matched by the visible Heavens, a symbol of Gods dwelling place.
3. The Courtyard. This is matched by the Earth.

Like cards sliding back into a deck, the lowest levels each mature towards the levels above them. The world matures into the brightness of the visible heaven, which matures into the glory of Gods dwelling place, until God is all in all.
Next, we need to understand how this triple-decker symbolism is matched by threefold floral symbolism.

1. The Holy of Holies is matched by the fountain of life, out of which flows the river of Gods delights. You can see this in Genesis 2. God answers the problem of no water, no man by bringing up a spring and creating a man. The spring originates above the Garden of Eden and flows downwards (this is how we know that Eden is on a mountain) into the Garden, where it divides into four and flows to the rest of the world. This symbol is picked up by Ezekiel 47, where the eschatological river flows out of the Temple and gives life to the world. Its brought to completion in Revelation 21, where the fountain originates under the throne of Christ, the Last Adam. The throne is in the Holy of Holies, so that the Last Adam ascends to the throne-fountain.

2. The Holy Place is matched by the Garden, or the Vineyard . If you want to understand why Heaven is matched by the Vineyard, then remember that the Garden is in the middle of the mountain. If youve ever driven up a mountain, you recall that youve often driven above clouds- youre in the visible heavens.

3. The Courtyard is matched by the Field. When Israel is gathered at the foot of Mt. Sinai, Israel is in the courtyard.
So Adam is in the Garden, where the river splits into four, and when hes kicked out, we find ourselves in a field. But theres one part of the world which is unaccounted for. In order to understand this, we ought to understand that the Bible also divides the world into Heaven, Earth, Under-the-Earth. Heaven is the visible heaven, corresponding to the vineyard. Earth is the world we walk on. Under-the-Earth is the oceans, as fish are said to swim under the earth.

Stay with me- the problem of Genesis 2:5 is no water, no man, therefore no bread. The solution was the cultivation of a spring and the outward flow of four rivers which divided in Paradise, corresponding to the four corners of the earth. The solution is when Adam brings water from the fountain of life to the ends of the earth. The next time we see rain is the flood. This is no accident.

In Scripture, the divine glory always has a double effect. It glorifies the righteous and punishes the wicked. The fire from the altar kills Nadab and Abihu. But when Isaiah is touched by the coal from the altar, he is glorified and filled with the Spirit. When Daniel sees a river proceeding from the throne of God, its a river of fire. When St. John sees it, its a river of water. This is the same river, because fire and water are complementary symbols of the divine glory. Both fire and water bless the righteous and punish the wicked.

So when the flood comes, this is the eschatological fulfillment of Genesis 2. God is all in all, but unto damnation for most of the world. For Noah, however, it is unto exaltation. The water stands above the mountains, and the Ark-Temple floats to the top of the mountain. Noah emerges and consecrates the world to God, as Christ will do at the eschaton.

By tying these threads together, we can see Adams destiny. He was meant to follow the rivers outwards, using the water from the fountain of life to cultivate fields by the Spirit. No man, no water, therefore no grain. When theres a man who uses water rightly, you get grain.

But grain isnt bread.

So what next?

In order to grasp the next step, one should understand whats happening in Genesis 2-3. Man was created on the sixth day, and you see the events of the sixth day in detail in Genesis 2. If we follow the text forward, the seventh day occurs in Genesis 3, when Adam goes to the Tree of Knowledge and falls. How do I know this? Several ways:

1. The seven days of creation are recapitulated over and over throughout the Bible, and each recapitulation provides additional insight into the Sabbath of Genesis 1. In Genesis 37, for example, the creation week is recapitulated. The clearest correspondences is Josephs two dreams. He dreams of sheaves of grain, corresponding to the third day, where grain plants and fruit trees were made. Then he dreams of eleven constellations, the sun, and the moon bowing down to him. This clearly corresponds to the fourth day. The seventh day is matched by Josephs brothers attacking him- a new fall.

2. Israel is supposed to work six days and rest on the seventh. On the seventh day, Israel brings her work to God, doesnt kindle fire, and God kindles His fire twice as brightly. In Psalm 104, the fruit of mans work is bread, wine, and oil, the three sacramental foods. Wine gladdens mans heart. This is Sabbath food. Bread strengthens mans heart. This is his food to work six more days and come to Sabbath again. Oil brightens his face. This is glory-food.

3. Genesis 3:8 says that God came to Adam in the Spirit of the Day. Typically this is rendered cool of the day, but the word is the same as the Spirit of Genesis 1:2. The Day here is the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is the Day of inspection. Every day, God sees the world and pronounces it good- or later in Scripture, wicked. The climax of this sequence is day seven, where as noted above, the sabbatical fire is brightened. The Day is the Sabbath. Adam is meant to meet with God and be inspected.

4. That the Day of the Lord refers to inspection by divine light is clear in Malachi 4, where the Sun of Righteousness rises to begin the Day of the Lord, and Israel is thereby enabled to distinguish the righteous from the wicked.

5. Sabbath itself refers to God coming to be enthroned in His world, which occurs in a theophany. When God is enthroned in the Tabernacle, the Glory-Cloud fills the Tabernacle. When God is enthroned in the Temple, the same happens. When Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, comes to the Temple, a Day of the Lord begins- He starts to cast out the wicked.
What was Adam supposed to be doing? He was meant to meet God at the Tree of Life. God would appear in His Glory to inspect Adam and Eve. Because they had met Him at the Tree of Life, and rejected the temptation of the Serpent, God would bless them. Having experienced temptation and rejected it, they would have matured slightly. So how do I know this? This is actually pretty simple.

After the exodus, Israel arrives at Sinai to begin her covenantal relationship with the Lord. In Exodus 24, Moses and the seventy elders ascend to the middle of the mountain (corresponding, if you recall, to the Garden), God appears in His Glory, and eats with them. When they ascend the mountain, they bring nothing in their hands. For the first meal, God alone provides the food. Afterwards, they are to provide Tribute. This will be demonstrated below.

But we know that this isnt how things actually happened. Knowing what we know from the rest of the Bible, we can understand what happened in Genesis 3.

Adam was meant to lead his wife to the Tree of Life, where God planned to appear t them, instruct them what to do for the next week, and eat with them. They would partake of the tree of life. On their way to the tree, they came across the tree of knowledge, which God had told Adam was off limits. By the tree, there is a serpent, a wise serpent, the one to whom was given dominion over the cosmos until man was ready. He was supposed to teach them the ways of the world before ultimately handing it over to man. This was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, language which throughout the rest of Scripture refers to kingship.

As we know, the Serpent had fallen, but this could still accomplish Gods purpose- Adam would mature and learn about the world by resisting temptation. This isnt what happened, though. God had provided the commandment to Adam, and he was meant to guard his Bride, tell the Serpent to buzz off, and continue to the Tree of Life. Instead, Adam wanted to see what would happen when his Bride ate the food. If she didnt die, Adam would know God was lying. She ate and didnt die, so Adam now knew that God was a liar. He ate too. This is the delay of the Parousia.

But then a booming sound is heard. The Garden lights up. God has appeared in His Glory for their Sabbath meal, but Adam isnt at the Tree of Life, where he was supposed to be. Hearing the deafening noise and seeing the Garden light up, Adam and Eve hide among the trees. God arrives. Having intended to bless them on the Day of the Lord, He inspects them and sees not good. They are cursed. The Sabbath has arrived, God has descended to eat with His children, and His children didnt show up for the meal. So the meal doesnt happen- the Tree of Life is blocked off.

Paul says that from Adam to Moses, there was no law.

In other words, what began with Moses was actually a reinstatement of what was intended to occur with Adam. This is why Moses and the seventy elders ascend to eat a meal with God in Exodus 24. This is the meal that Adam was supposed to eat with God, finally coming to pass. By what transpires afterwards, we know what was supposed to happen with Adam.

In Exodus 25, after the meal, Moses collects tribute from the people to construct the Tabernacle. In Genesis 2, the author describes the raw materials of the world. Read together, the implication is that Adam was supposed to go out into the world, collect the raw materials, bring them to God, and continue the work of maturing the earth towards its heavenly prototype. Remember how this is associated with Bread? Now we can finally connect that up with the contributions towards the Tabernacle.

Leviticus 1-3. This is the destiny of the world. This is Adams vocation, reinstated.

Leviticus 1 is the ascension offering. It recapitulates the exodus. First, the animal is killed, just like the whole of Egypt dies on the night of Passover, including the Israelites, who emerge from their bloody doorposts (doorposts are associated with wombs throughout the Bible) in a new birth in the morning. Then the animal is washed, just as Israel passed through the Red Sea. Then the animal is burned up in an ascension to God. This is when Israel arrived at the holy mountain and ascended, in the persons of Moses and the seventy elders.

Leviticus 2 is the Tribute Offering. Because Exodus 24 (as in the intended meal of Genesis 2-3) included no Tribute as it was the beginning of the covenant, from this point forward, the sabbatical meal was to include Tribute. The Tribute Offering is Bread, Oil, and Incense. No wine yet, as that was for Israel after she partook lawfully of the Tree of Knowledge, the Tree of Kingship, because Wine is the sabbatical drink. This is why the drink offerings must be poured out in the old covenant.

But Bread, Oil, and Incense is exactly what is in the Holy Place. Youve got the Bread of the Presence, the oil lampstand, and the incense altar. In other words, this is the Tribute that Adam was supposed to bring. As it corresponds to Exodus 25, this Tribute is meant to glorify the world as Gods Temple.

Leviticus 3 is the peace offering. This is the sacrificial meal that is then eaten with God.

Adam was meant to go into the world. Cultivate fields. Harvest them, working them into Bread, and bringing the raw material of the world along with him. Then he was to ascend the holy mountain, bringing this Tribute in his hand. God would take the Tribute and God and man would sit and have a meal together.

-

Man is the generations of the heavens and the earth according to Genesis 2:4. He is the offspring of the Holy Spirit of God (heaven) and the dust of the ground (earth). Man is the vessel through which the earth matures towards the fullness of its heavenly prototype. Now we know the way in which this was to occur. He was meant to go into the world, cultivate fields with heavenly water, harvest bread, bring that bread to God on the holy mountain, and then sit and have a meal with God. Ultimately, this would proceed towards the eschatological Sabbath, which we can see in Genesis 9.

In Genesis 9, the whole world has been watered by heavenly rain (in judgment).Noah ascends to the mountain for the (typological) final meal. He consecrates the whole creation to God, this final, mature, complete creation. Then Noah enters his tent and drinks Wine in Sabbath Rest. Wine gladdens the heart of man. It is the drink of kings.

When Noah offers the whole creation to God in its prototypical eschatological Sabbath, this is a type of Jesus offering the completed new creation to God (1 Corinthians 15) so that God is all and all. But it is simultaneously a a type of the Eucharist, where Jesus offers us Bread AND WINE.

That means that the Eucharist is simultaneously the meal of the age to come, when Christ hands the whole world to His Father, and the meal that we eat now. This is why we speak of the Second Coming in the past tense when we celebrate the Eucharist: Remembering all these things that have come to pass for us, the Cross, the Grave, The Third-Day Resurrection, the Ascension into Heaven, the Session at the Right Hand of the Father, and the Second and Glorious Coming.

Its at that point that the Bread is consecrated to God. The consecration of that Bread to God is the consecration of the whole created order to the Father by Christ.

So when we partake, we are entering into the Age to Come. We drink wine as well, because in that moment, God is all in all.

This is why we offer our monetary tribute to God after the Eucharist is brought forth- this is the completion of what Adam was supposed to do. We turn our stuff into the stuff of the age to come at the Divine Liturgy.

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## RJB

> Had a long chat with an older fellow at lunch hour, IDR his name, that was pretty interesting.  He clearly understood the MIC and the regime's propaganda machine.  I was like !


My church is pretty cool too.  The first Liturgy I attended, I noticed an SAE in the offering box.  A  lot of them are pretty interested in politics, leaning libertarian.  All the school aged kids are homeschooled.  Of course I converted for spiritual reasons, but being around people who see the world from a similar POV is nice too.

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## heavenlyboy34

> My church is pretty cool too.  The first Liturgy I attended, I noticed an SAE in the offering box.  A  lot of them are pretty interested in politics, leaning libertarian.  All the school aged kids are homeschooled.  Of course I converted for spiritual reasons, but being around people who see the world from a similar POV is nice too.


What is an SAE? /confuzzled

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## RJB

> What is an SAE? /confuzzled


Silver American Eagle.  Ron Paul's idea.

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## TER

"Let us go forth in peace" is the last commandment of the Liturgy. What does it mean? It means, surely, that the conclusion of the Divine Liturgy is not an end but a beginning. Those words, "Let us go forth in peace," are not merely a comforting epilogue. They are a call to serve and bear witness. In effect, those words, "Let us go forth in peace," mean the Liturgy is over, the liturgy after the Liturgy is about to begin.

This, then, is the aim of the Liturgy: that we should return to the world with the doors of our perceptions cleansed. We should return to the world after the Liturgy, seeing Christ in every human person, especially in those who suffer. In the words of Father Alexander Schmemann, the Christian is the one who wherever he or she looks, everywhere sees Christ and rejoices in him. We are to go out, then, from the Liturgy and see Christ everywhere."

_  - Bishop Kallistos of Diokleia_

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## TER

The Elder was not only endowed by the Lord with the gift of healing bodily illnesses — he was also given the power to cast out demons. Thus, there lived in Optina a lay youth who suffered from a kind of possession. Elder Ambrose had healed him, but not once and for all. The youth retained the ability to consciously call forth certain states in himself. Once, when he and Fr. Nektary were left alone together, the youth said to the Elder, “Would you like me to show you something?” “All right.” Then he sat down, became concentrated, and his body began to bend unnaturally. He threw his head back, and all his members became stiff. Then the Elder raised his hand and traced the sign of the Cross in the air. The youth remained in the same position. He made a second sign of the Cross and then a third. After the third time the youth came to himself. “What did you see?” Fr. Nektary asked him. “I saw the air as if it were layered, and the flat outlines of people and other beings,” he replied. “And then I saw lightning. It flashed twice, and the third time it burst into flame, and then I came to.” “See what power the sign of the Cross has?’ the Elder concluded.

_- Elder Nektary of Optina_

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## TER

*The Mystery of the Holy Eucharist*


The Divine Liturgy is at the centre of ecclesiastical life. The incarnation of the Son and Word of God came about in order that human nature might be glorified and Christ might be offered to humankind, so that they could take communion of His Body and Blood. This is the ultimate aim of the Mysteries (Sacraments). The purpose of all the Mysteries is participation in Christs Body and Blood. Christ said, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you (John 6:53). We are baptised and chrismated in order that we may take Holy Communion as members of the Church and members of the Body of Christ.

It is clear from the basic principles of the baptismal services, the prayers in the Liturgy and the Canons of the Church, that being a member of the Body of Christ means not only sharing in the common prayers of the Church, but also taking Holy Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ. Any sort of distinction between prayer and Holy Communion is inconceivable, because the whole body of the local Church prays with one mouth and one heart, the whole Church says Amen at the end of the Eucharistic prayer, and the whole body of the Church is called by Christ to Holy Communion.

Once a baby has been born and left its mothers womb, it must be fed in order to live, because otherwise it will die. As soon as a Christian leaves the spiritual womb of the Church, which is the sacred font, and it has been confirmed through Chrismation that he is a member of the Body of Christ and of the Church, he ought to take Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ.

Man does not have his own life. He can only have life if he dies with regard to the elements of this world and lives the life of love in the Eucharistic life of the community. His salvation cannot come from a moralising, individualistic piety. It is accomplished only through grace, according to how much he struggles against the devil and empties himself in the life of Christ, Whose Body is made up of real human beings, the Church.

Holy Communion in the Body and Blood of Christ, however, is not without preconditions. Clear preconditions must be met in order for Holy Communion to act unto life and not death.

As human beings have a rational faculty and a noetic faculty, there is rational worship and noetic worship. Rational worship takes place using words, whereas noetic worship is performed inwardly through prayer in the heart. The Divine Liturgy is rational worship, but within it noetic worship is also offered by the one who has developed his noetic faculty. For that reason, someone who also offers noetic worship participates in the Divine Liturgy in the best possible way.

That is why we say in the Liturgy, Again we offer unto Thee this reasonable worship. We offer rational worship to God and God gives us noetic worship. This is a gift of God to man. When we have this visitation of the Holy Spirit, it is proof that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Those who take part in the Divine Liturgy benefit according to their spiritual state.

The Divine Liturgy is rational worship. But rational worship is of no benefit to someone who does not have noetic worship as well. Human beings are not only rational; they also have noetic energy. They ought not to pray only with the rational faculty; they should also have the prayer of the Holy Spirit within their heart, which is prayer without ceasing. According to the Fathers of the Church, those who are in this state are members of the Church.

We know that Gods uncreated energy is indivisibly divided among divided beings, and multiplied among many without becoming many.

After the incarnation of Christ, in which the divine nature was united inseparably, immutably, indivisibly and unconfusedly with the human nature, Christs human nature too became a source of Gods uncreated energy.

The way in which God appears and reveals Himself to man is also through the human nature of Christ, which is now itself divided indivisibly among divided beings and multiplied among many without becoming many.

This is what the Priest says when he cuts up the Holy Bread into many particles: Divided and distributed is the Lamb of God, being broken yet not divided, being ever eaten yet never consumed, but sanctifying those who partake.

When we partake of the Body and Blood of Christ we do not receive only a fragment of Christ within us, but everyone who takes Holy Communion receives the whole Christ within him. However, this does not mean that there are many Christs. Christ is one, and this Christ, Who is one, is wholly present in every believer who has partaken of the Most Pure Mysteries. On the holy Paten where the Lamb is cut into pieces by the Priest, Christ is not fragmented, but multiplied into many without becoming many. The whole Christ is in every particle of the Holy Bread. This is the Mystery of Gods presence in man.

Earlier we mentioned that there are appropriate preconditions for participation in Holy Communion. This is a very important subject. The Apostle Paul, speaking about the Mystery of Holy Communion, lays down the essential preconditions for approaching it.

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lords body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep (1 Cor. 11:27-30).

This examination is not a moral test. The Christian examines whether he is a real member of the Church, to what extent he is a temple of the Holy Spirit or, at very least, if he is in the state of purification and in that perspective. Because Christ is the purification of those being purified, the illumination of those being illumined and the glorification of those being glorified. Thus Christ also becomes the Hell of the impure, as He will be at the Second Coming. Then the same Christ will be Light for the righteous and fire for the unrepentant, as we shall see in the next chapter.

In the early Church, ascertaining whether it was possible for a Christian to take Holy Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ was not a matter of ascertaining whether his life was moral, but whether he was in the state of illumination.

This was always the case with us. According to the Fathers, the one who takes Holy Communion is in the state of illumination. When it was ascertained that he was not in the state of illumination, he did not take Holy Communion. This was the criterion. In the phrase those who communicate worthily, they did not mean by worthily those who avoided sin and were morally correct, but those who were in the state of illumination and so took Holy Communion. Of course this had moral foundations, but it was not identified with morals.

Someone takes Holy Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ when he belongs to the Church, which is the Body of Christ. He communicates as a member of the Church, as a member of the Body of Christ. But the Christian must be clearly aware of being a member of the Body of Christ.

It is the Body of Christ that comes into being through the descent of the Holy Spirit. The experience of theoria is also an experience of the human nature of Christ within man. For that reason the Fathers emphasise that anyone who does not sense Christ within him, does not have Christ within him. It is not a matter merely of saying that we are the Body of Christ. One must be aware of being a member of the Body of Christ. Someone who senses that he lacks this awareness, does not have it. The one who senses that he has this awareness within him, has the proof within him.

One of the greatest difficulties that exist in Orthodoxy today is the movement of Makrakis and the members of Zoe. They have destroyed this concept. According to the Fathers of the Church, in the early Church they took Holy Communion every Sunday. And the Canons of the Church presuppose that Christians will naturally take Holy Communion every Sunday. Yes, but only until it was proved that someone had lapsed from the state of illumination. After falling from illumination, he was excluded from Holy Communion, because Holy Communion is for the illuminated. He lapses from illumination and no longer takes Holy Communion.

This was the reason why the Fathers constructed the Sanctuary with curtains and so on. The majority of the faithful were no longer in the state of illumination, as were most monks and some pious people in the villages, so that the ceremonies could take place as they do in monasteries today. That is why even monks sometimes abstain from taking Holy Communion and communicate at intervals, according to their spiritual state.

To be sure, if one is in the state of illumination and theoria, one can take Holy Communion every week. Someone who is not in this state does not communicate. However, the spiritual father knew if his spiritual child was in the state of illumination.

Then the clever people of today came along. They read the Canons of the Church and said that we ought to take Holy Communion every Sunday. The Canons do not say that we should communicate every Sunday. They mean that the illuminated should communicate every Sunday. And now Holy Communion has been reduced to a sort of magic, particularly among the pious. We go there and take Holy Communion

The very ones who did this and talked about frequent Holy Communion, went and abolished monasticism for us. They told the children, Dont go to monasteries. They made out that all monks were illiterate. Only now, in the last few years, have they begun to wake up a bit.

In any case, Holy Communion acts in accordance with the spiritual state of the communicant. It purifies those being purified, illumines those being illuminated and glorifies those being glorified, just as it burns up those not undergoing purification.

In Holy Communion we partake of the Body and Blood of Christ. Provided we are in the state of illumination, this is beneficial to us. If we are not in the state of illumination this Holy Communion does not help us. This is what we mean by worthily. Someone who approaches worthily derives benefit. When someone approaches unworthily, he derives no benefit, but rather sleeps, because he remains dead and not alive in Christ. This Holy Communion in the Body and Blood of Christ in experience is not just a reality, but even becomes visible. This is the purpose of the Divine Eucharist: the glorification of the faithful. Read the prayers of preparation for Holy Communion and you will clearly see the aim of the Divine Eucharist.

S.SymeonNewTheologianRecently a bishop asserted, somewhere where I was present, that we are all glorified, as we read in the prayer of preparation for Holy Communion that it glorifies and nourishes me. Well, this is a prayer by Symeon the New Theologian and refers to his personal experience, not to the experience of every Orthodox Christian who takes Holy Communion today. This is Symeon the New Theologians prayer. Consequently, when we pray in this way, we say it glorifies and nourishes me, but this does not mean that it glorifies and nourishes me, because only those who communicate worthily are glorified and nourished in the manner of Symeon the New Theologian.

Unfortunately the Mystery of the Divine Eucharist has become secularised. Christians take Holy Communion unconditionally, or at best they prepare with fasting and a formal confession.

Today things have reached such a state that not even the priest ought to take Holy Communion. If you read what St Basil the Great says about the preparation of the clergy for the Liturgy, it is clear that St Basil lays down that at least the clergy ought to be in the state of illumination in order to celebrate the Divine Liturgy.

As things have changed and the true Orthodox preconditions have been altered, the Church has set some limits. It laid down holy Canons that define how one should partake of Holy Communion, it prescribed the Mystery of Holy Confession, which determines the basic degree of repentance, and it made some adjustments to the church building and to the way the prayers were read. In the early Church the whole church building was one unit and the prayers were read out loud. Because, however, the classifications of catechumens, those being baptised, the faithful and the glorified were abolished, certain outward divisions were put in place.

That is why the iconostasis developed. Originally there was no iconostasis, because the nave of the church was only for the illuminated. The icon screen was the entrance to the nave. It was not a wooden screen as it is today. For that reason, in monasteries on the Holy Mountain, in Kalambaka and Meteora, the entrance to the nave is an iconostasis painted with icons. The iconostasis was on the walls at the entrance to the nave, and the Sanctuary was an open area. At most it had railings on which they put an icon of Christ and one of the Holy Virgin.

Originally this was the iconostasis. Afterwards the other iconostasis was made higher and the Liturgy was arranged in such a way that, because the unilluminated were allowed to attend the Liturgy, they limited when they could receive Holy Communion. Those who were not illuminated communicated during particular fasts in the course of the year. It was assumed that at Baptism they had received illumination through Chrismation, but due to the life they were leading they did not possess an illuminated nous, so they did not take Holy Communion.

The clergy celebrated the Liturgy behind the curtain, hidden now from the people, because those who were not in the state of illumination ought not to see the Mysteries. For the same reason they did not take part in the prayers, and the prayers began to be said secretly. Because these prayers are for the illuminated; they are not for everybody.

One of the basic tasks of bishops and priests is to train Christians to pass from purification to illumination and glorification, so that they can partake of the Body and Blood of Christ, and Holy Communion may act as purification, illumination and glorification. The faithful ought to live noetic worship so that they also take part worthily in rational worship. This is the work of spiritual fathers.

I do not mean the spiritual fathers in modern parishes, to whom people go to receive social and family advice, and at the end the spiritual father reads them a prayer of forgiveness and they go away content that they have been forgiven, and can go and take Holy Communion, without either the priest or the penitent having the slightest idea about noetic prayer. In the early Church it was perceptible that someone was in a state of illumination and someone else was not. One took Holy Communion and the other did not. It was perceptible in the early Church. Now these things are imperceptible. Everyone feels a certain comfort from confession and Holy Communion, nothing more.

In the past in the Church it was the bishop who was the spiritual father par excellence and prepared the faithful for Holy Communion. He also trained the priests to become good spiritual fathers. The same happened as with human knowledge.

The professor of astronomy teaches the doctoral candidates to become as good as he is. Why? So that he can leave successors and the tradition of astronomy will continue. Because if this teaching and preparation of doctoral candidates and prospective professors to succeed todays astronomers ceases, astronomy will disappear as a science.

This used to happen in the Church as well, with regard to the therapeutic method for preparing Christians for Holy Communion. Thus in the teaching of St Symeon the New Theologian teaching and catechism are very closely linked with confession and repentance, which was the work of the bishop, in accordance with the example of the astronomer that we have referred to.

Exactly the same used to take place in the Church. The bishop is the university professor who teaches doctoral candidates. Who are these candidates? They are the monks, who will succeed the bishop. Why will they succeed the bishop? Not because they are monks in the modern sense of the word, but because they are the ones who learn how to remember God at all times, how the nous is purified, how to reach illumination, and how to reach glorification. For that reason the bishop is the teacher of monks.

Later on we arrived at the era described by Symeon the New Theologian, who was in conflict and in dispute with many people in his time because monks were becoming teachers. Whereas before only the bishop taught, now monks also began to teach. So what argument did the bishops use? That only bishops should teach and monks are not teachers.

Note this point very carefully. The bishop is the teacher, the monk is the pupil. Monks cannot act as teachers. What is the issue? If you look carefully, the dispute is about the Mystery of Confession, the Sacrament of Repentance: whether monks are permitted to hear confessions. In the early Church the bishop was the one who heard confessions. Later, however, it became customary for the bishop tc give priests permission to hear confessions. But here we also haw monks who hear confessions. The dispute alternates: sometimes i: refers to confession, sometimes to teaching.

If you read carefully, Symeon the New Theologian identifies teaching with confession, with the Mystery of Repentance. Wh\ does he regard these two things as the same? Because in the earh Church the bishops task was to teach people how to pass through the stage of purification and reach illumination. Priests who were spiritual fathers did this in the parishes under the bishops supervision. In those days there were not just a handful of catechumens: there were hundreds of them. There was a complete education system within the Church. There were hundreds of catechumens every year and usually they baptised them on Holy Saturday.

To ensure that catechetical instruction was organised correctly, the priest, under the guidance of the bishop, undertook the teaching of the newly-baptised, those preparing for Baptism and certain catechumens, and then the deacons taught the rest of the catechumens St Dionysios the Areopagite describes this in great detail. If you want to see the practice of the early Church, read The Ecclesiastics Hierarchy by Dionysios the Areopagite. It is all in there.

The bishop was regarded as the teacher of monks. Why? Because in those days someone went through the state of purification, reached illumination and he had a strong character. Then the bishop took on the newly-baptised Christian and taught him last of all. Why? So as to bring him to perfection and make him a doctor of theology. What does being a doctor of theology mean? It mean> constant remembrance of God and noetic prayer, which had for the most part become restricted to monastic circles, as monks were prepared in this way. Subsequently the bishops of the Church were chosen from the order of monks  not always, but we could say in most cases.

As time passed this tradition was lost, with the result that monks would also teach. They did not perform the Mystery of Confession, but they gave instruction and catechism. In other words, they helped the faithful to free themselves from thoughts, so that the noetic faculty would be separated from the rational faculty and noetic prayer would begin. Thus we understand what teaching and repentance mean, and how they relate to Holy Communion.

If we take the writings of Symeon the New Theologian, what does he have in mind when he talks about teaching? Who teaches? He explains why monks had also become teachers, whereas in earlier times monks were not permitted to teach. Monks are pupils, say the early Fathers, and bishops are teachers. He explains why monks had become teachers in his day, and what teaching is. He means confessions and remission of sins.

When Symeon the New Theologian speaks about teaching and why monks have the duty to teach, he means the duty to hear confessions. Confession is the Churchs teaching in the highest sense, because teaching about purification and how to reach illumination took place in the Mystery of Confession

Nowadays when we say teacher it has nothing at all to do with confession. Nowadays teachers are catechists, university professors, high school teachers and so on, but when they teach they teach mans rational faculty, they no longer train his nous. So teaching has no connection with spiritual guidance  the connection is only indirect these days. Monks became teachers or spiritual fathers, because in the era of Symeon the New Theologian the bishops did not do their duty in this respect.

It is from this point of view that we ought to look at the sermon in the Divine Liturgy, which refers to how we can acquire a relationship with God, how we can experience glorification, how we can acquire love. The fact that sermons in Church today make little mention of how but speak about what shows that they are not in accord with the perspective of the Divine Eucharist. They are neither eucharistic nor ecclesiastical, because they do not presuppose hesychasm.

This is where the greatest problem of Christianity lies today. We hear fine sermons from the pulpit. All the priests who preach speak about love, about one thing or another.

I have written a whole book called The Ancestral Sin and when I wrote it I had no idea how one attains to this unselfish love. There I described it, so to speak, analytically, but what is the method for achieving it? We sit and talk about unselfish love. But who can become unselfish? And who has reached unselfishness? Who has attained to love? When we sit there and say that we possess love, what are we? Do we really have love or are we pretending that we have it? That is the problem.

The sermons are excellent. They fill the pulpit and are a good thing. Christians sit there listening enthusiastically to these sermons. But although we hear sermons, I for one have not heard how. I have heard what and where. Usually the how is Dont do this, dont do that, dont do the other. This is a sin, that is a sin. Do this: do good works. All very well, but one can do good works and in the end go to Hell instead of going to Paradise.

In the early Church, instead of giving individual sermons, they read the homilies of the Fathers.

Among the Fathers of the Church, one only needs to read Chrysostoms sermons to see how highly developed the sense of social justice was in Chrysostom, who is one of the great Fathers of the Church. His works were read for centuries by all the Orthodox.

In the past the good custom existed that, instead of listening to the priest expounding the Gospel every Sunday in those pietistic sermons, they used to read patristic sermons on each Gospel.

In the final analysis, the whole Orthodox liturgical tradition and all the other Mysteries and services concern the members of the Church, and their aim is participation in the Mystery of the Divine Eucharist, so that Christ may become purification, illumination and glorification.

There is no other purpose. There are no private Mysteries. It is impossible to separate all the other rites of the Church from Holy Communion in the Body and Blood of Christ. And none of these things can be separated from the real mystery, which is purification, illumination and glorification. There is obvious unity between dogma, prayer, the Mysteries, asceticism and the Divine Eucharist. Ecclesiastical life revolves around these axes.

*Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos, Empirical Dogmatics, Vol. 2*

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## heavenlyboy34

Commemoration of John Climacus, author of "The Ladder"  Hieromartyr Basil of Ancyra; Martyr Kallinka of Rome; Venerable-martyr Euthymios of Prodromou Skete on Athos.
Liturgy of St Basil again toady.  Kept me busy the whole time.  I got there early enough to catch some of Orthros, which was nice.   Some silly flubs in the performance due to errors in some of the new music.  Epistle-Hebrews 6:13-20, gospel Mark 9:16-30.  Homily was by Fr. Mansour, and not particularly well done, IMHO, so no notes.

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## heavenlyboy34

Another crazy but rewarding Lord's Day.   A few notes from Fr. Chris' homily:
*In the ancient near East each city had a god.  Idols of the gods were carved in stone in temples.  Priests spoke to gods and preached to the people.  *The Ark Of The Covenant was the place for God during the Exodus *The tents that jews build in Exodus were for the ark.  Only the high priest could go into the 3rd, deepest layer-the holy of holies *blood rituals were done in the deepest layer *Christ enters the holy of holies on the cross and gives the Great Sacrifice

Had some lulz at lunch hour.  A few people were gone today, including mama. :'(  /sad

ETA:
Also, Commemofation of our Righteous Mother Mary of Egypt  
Martyr Mark, bishop of Arethusa, Martyr Cyril the deacon of Heliopolis and those with them; Martys Jonah and Barachisios of Persia and those them the; Eustathios the Confessor, bishop of Bithynia
Gospel:Mark 10:32-45  Epistle: Hebrews 9:11-14

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## heavenlyboy34

Got a video toady, so no notes. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jh4xwbnu2h..._0038.MOV?dl=0  Enjoy!

St Thomas Sunday.  Saw my mommy Ludmilla and so on; lots of hugz n' kissez all around. 

ETA: Gospel John 20:19-31  Epistle: Acts 5:12-20

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## heavenlyboy34

Got a video I will share ASAP.   Crazzzy busy toady.

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## heavenlyboy34

Happy Pentacost!  An extremely busy day!   Voice lesson before church.  A quite happy service to celebrate.  Plenty of lolz and ~hugs~ at fellowship hour.   I have a video of the homily, which I will share ASAP.


THE EPISTLE

The Reading from the Acts of the Apostles. (2:1

-

11)

When the day of Pentecost had come, the Disciples were all together in one place. And

suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a might

y wind, and it filled all the house

where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting
on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other
tongues, as the Spirit gave t
hem utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout
men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they
were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were
amazed and
wondered, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that
we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents
of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia
, Egypt and the
parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans
and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”
THE GOSPEL
The Reading from the Holy Gospel according to St
. John. (7:37
-
52; 8:12)
On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and proclaimed, “If anyone
thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of
his belly shall flow rivers of living water.’” N
ow this He said about the Spirit, which those who
believed in Him were to receive; for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not
yet glorified. When they heard these words, many of the people said, “This is really the
prophet.” Others sai
d, “This is the Christ.” But some said, “Is the Christ to come from Galilee?
Has not the Scripture said that the Christ is descended from David, and comes from Bethlehem,
the village where David was?” So there was a division among the people over Him. Some
of
them wanted to arrest Him, but no one laid hands on Him. The officers then went back to the
chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why did you not bring Him?” The officers
answered, “No man ever spoke like this man!” The Pharisees answered the
m, “Are you led
astray, you also? Have any of the authorities or the Pharisees believed in Him? But this crowd,
who do not know the Law, are accursed.” Nicodemus, who had gone to Him before, and who
was one of them, said to them, “Does our Law judge a man 
without first giving him a hearing
and learning what he does?” They replied, “Are you from Galilee too? Search and you will see
that no prophet is to rise from Galilee.” Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the
world; he who follows Me wil
l not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

----------


## Eagles' Wings

We celebrated Pentecost last week and Trinity Sunday, this week.  We proclaimed the Anathansian Creed, a historical and theological gift.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

First Sunday after Pentacost.  Another very busy day.   Voice lesson @ 8, attended Orthros @ 9:45-ish, liturgy @ 10.  Fr. Chris is doing a wedding in CA this week, so he wasn't in.  /Sadz   I have a vid of Fr Mansour's homily, but I didn't care for it, so I won't post.  Gospel- Matthew 10:32-33, 37-38; 19:27-30.  Epistle-Hebrews 11:33-12:2.  Hugz n' kissez all around after liturgy.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Yesterday was the feast day of my patron saint, Cyrill of Alexandria.   Just thought I'd mention it cuz it's my first time celebrating it.

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> Yesterday was the feast day of my patron saint, Cyrill of Alexandria.   Just thought I'd mention it cuz it's my first time celebrating it.


Tell us in your own words, who he is, please.  What can we learn from him?  Why did you choose him?   Not to sound pushy, just interested in your patron saint.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Tell us in your own words, who he is, please.  What can we learn from him?  Why did you choose him?   Not to sound pushy, just interested in your patron saint.


Cyril was a Greek minister to the Slavs.  In his efforts to teach the Gospel, he invented the Cyrillic alphabet-based on the Greek.  It is primarily to Cyril we owe thanks for planting the seeds for one of the great Eastern Churches-the Russian Orthodox Church.  Another consequence of Cyrill's work is the rise of Russian literature, which is to this day among the most important and influential styles there is.  From Pushkin and Tolstoy to Dostoevsky, Bulgakov, and Zamyatin, it's ultimately all thanks to St. Cyrill.   As far as what we can learn from him-a great deal about the gospel via his homilies and commentaries.  Here's some of them- http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/cy...mons_01_11.htm

----------


## Eagles' Wings

> Cyril was a Greek minister to the Slavs.  In his efforts to teach the Gospel, he invented the Cyrillic alphabet-based on the Greek.  It is primarily to Cyril we owe thanks for planting the seeds for one of the great Eastern Churches-the Russian Orthodox Church.  Another consequence of Cyrill's work is the rise of Russian literature, which is to this day among the most important and influential styles there is.  From Pushkin and Tolstoy to Dostoevsky, Bulgakov, and Zamyatin, it's ultimately all thanks to St. Cyrill.   As far as what we can learn from him-a great deal about the gospel via his homilies and commentaries.  Here's some of them- http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/cy...mons_01_11.htm


Thanks, HB, will check this out.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Thanks, HB, will check this out.


Louise, I just noticed I linked you to a piece about a different St Cyrill. :/  Sorry.  I'll find some of his writings ASAP.  Till then,  http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/fr-j...-methodios.pdf  <-this is general biographical info about him and St Methodius(who traveled with Cyrill).

----------


## euphemia

heavenlyboy, I've been following your thread since shortly after you started it.  Since you have been going to church and participating in the liturgy and Christian experience, how is your life different?  I realize this is a personal question, but I'm wondering what it looks like in your own words.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> heavenlyboy, I've been following your thread since shortly after you started it.  Since you have been going to church and participating in the liturgy and Christian experience, how is your life different?  I realize this is a personal question, but I'm wondering what it looks like in your own words.


This is a good question, but I'm afraid I don't have time to answer it tonight.  I'll get back to it ASAP. ~hugs~

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Sorry I haven't gotten an update done yet.  Between other stuff to do and internet blackouts, I haven't been able to do it. :/  Will finish one and post a vid ASAP.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

OMG, busy day.  Voice lesson @ 8, Orthros @ 9.  My director asked me to switch to tenor from now on.  

Transfer of Commemoration of Peter and Paul.  Epistle-2 Corinthians 11:21-12:9, Gospel-Matthew 16:13-19.  Vids of the homily coming ASAP.  Fr. Chris discussed a bit about how State-legalized gay "marriage" poses a threat to the Church in that it can be used as a political weapon against the Church community.

Lit a candle for BuddyRey again today.  Cried a bit. :'(  R.I.P.  Now I'm all teary again.  People have been nice about helping me cope.

----------


## Terry1

> OMG, busy day.  Voice lesson @ 8, Orthros @ 9.  My director asked me to switch to tenor from now on.  
> 
> Transfer of Commemoration of Peter and Paul.  Epistle-2 Corinthians 11:21-12:9, Gospel-Matthew 16:13-19.  Vids of the homily coming ASAP. * Fr. Chris discussed a bit about how State-legalized gay "marriage" poses a threat to the Church in that it can be used as a political weapon against the Church community.*
> 
> Lit a candle for BuddyRey again today.  Cried a bit. :'(  R.I.P.  Now I'm all teary again.  People have been nice about helping me cope.


Yes--it will be used as a weapon of persecution against the church and already is--churches being forced to comply with opposing beliefs and opposite God.  This is what our Lord spoke about as well--the time is at hand.  Oil and water do not mix--they never have.  We are now a thorn in the side of those who are the enemies of God.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Another voice lesson @ 8, orthros @ 9.  Getting better at hitting the high notes.   Epistle-Galatians 5:22-6:2, gospel Matthew 8:28-9:1.  I haven't gotten around to uploading the homilies I've taped lately, including toady. :/   Lit a candle in memory of Buddyrey.  

Homily discussed basics of orthodox communion and relics and the deeper meanings of liturgy.  Vids to come ASAP.

----------


## Biblefundyfun

> *Before the New Testament, Was the Divine Liturgy* 
> 
> 
> _By Elder Sophrony of Essex_
> 
> We Orthodox live Christ within the Divine Liturgy, or rather Christ lives within us during the Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy is a work of God. We say: "Time is a creation of the Lord". Among other things it means now is the time for God to act. Christ liturgizes, we live with Christ.
> 
> The Divine Liturgy is the way we know God and the way God becomes known to us.
> 
> ...


They may not have had the New Testament then but we have it now so while this ALL sounds flowery fluffy pious ever so catholic and lovely we've moved on with all due respect. They also
got torn asunder and eaten by lions for the entertainment of Rome back the too, shall we get that happening again too? Just for old times sake?

----------


## TER

*Elder Sophrony: The Basics of the Divine Liturgy*

- by Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos

Before I left the Holy Monastery I found an opportunity in a discussion to ask him [Elder Sophrony] about the Divine Liturgy, and he presented me with the basic teaching about it.

 “The Priesthood is not given to man as a reward for virtues, but as a gift for the edification of the Church. Someone becomes a Priest in order to celebrate the Divine Liturgy and to sanctify the people. Also, the Priesthood has a social significance, since he will deal with the construction of the church and the suffering of the Christians. So he also needs these qualifications, besides the spirituality.”

– “The Divine Liturgy occurred one time forever. It has eternality. Every time the Divine Liturgy is celebrated, we rise up to its height. If we live some aspects of the Divine Liturgy, then we will understand its greatness, as happened with St. Seraphim of Sarov who saw angels coming to the church during the Small Entrance. We follow the Divine Liturgy, because we do not live it, or until we live it.”

– “The Divine Liturgy teaches us to live with the heart. By celebrating the Divine Liturgy we keep the command of Christ: ‘Drink this in remembrance of Me’ (Lk. 22:19; 1 Cor. 11:24). That’s why we say: ‘Remembering this saving command….’ This is not a psychological fact, but spiritual. Thus, every time we celebrate the Divine Liturgy, we are obedient to the word of Christ, and we penetrate the Divine Mystagogy in the Liturgy of Christ.

What God did once, remains now forever. This happens with the Divine Liturgy. One time Christ celebrated it in the Upper Room with the Mystical Supper, and this remains forever. The Christian, depending on the sacrifice he makes and his infiltration of Grace with this ‘spirit’ of the Divine Liturgy, receives Grace from God, and is purified of the passions. The Divine Liturgy in its perfection is the supplication and prayer for the entire world. This is the so-called royal officiation-priesthood. Thus, man reaches the end of the age. He does not wait for the day of the Lord, but this day of the Lord comes to him. So by Grace he becomes timeless.”

From I Knew A Man In Christ: The Life and Times of Elder Sophrony, the Hesychast and Theologian (Οἶδα ἄνθρωπον ἐν Χριστῶ: Βίος καὶ πολιτεία τοῦ Γέροντος Σωφρονίου τοῦ ἡσυχαστοῦ καὶ θεολόγου) by Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos and Agiou Vlasiou. 

Translation by John Sanidopoulos.
i

----------


## TER

*Closed Communion*

- by Ilias Levy

To some Orthodox it may seem that this is a somewhat bizarre issue to think worthy of an article. Indeed, perhaps it ought to be. Unfortunately, however, it is something about which there appears to be a certain amount of ignorance and confusion – to the extent where there have been very troubling instances of non-Orthodox being given Communion in Britain and other places. Where this happens, it is of course a disciplinary issue which must be dealt with by the appropriate Hierarchs. However it is also true that for some people it is an issue which is very difficult to understand – and from this lack of understanding can come an understandable pastoral difficulty when people are told that, for instance, a Catholic or Protestant spouse or friend cannot be admitted to Communion.

It is therefore my intention to try to make this subject more widely understood and, hopefully, by increasing knowledge and understanding, removing the potential for insult or offence.

Part of the reason for this confusion is that other Christian denominations allow any Christian (and, occasionally, anyone at all) to receive the Precious Gifts. Whether this is in fact true is something to which I will come later. Indeed, it seems more likely that the reason is simply that there is a lack of knowledge about the significance of Communion. This Mystery is not a cause of unity, rather a result of it.

The act of receiving Communion is not something which brings someone into unity with the Church. In fact, the most serious penalty which the Church can put on its members is that of excommunication – refusing to allow an individual to receive the Gifts. This shows not only the importance of the Eucharist for Orthodox Christians, but also the fact that one must be a faithful member of the Church to take part in the Mystery.

The most significant reason for keeping a practice of closed communion is that it is vitally necessary for a communicant to have a correct understanding of the Holy Mystery from which he is partaking. As A.S. Frangopoulos explains in his book ‘Our Orthodox Christian Faith’, other Christians have an alternate – and therefore incorrect – understanding of the Eucharist. How, then, would it be at all reasonable to invite them to share, as Frangopoulos puts it, a common cup? This difference is most keenly felt when it comes to the vast majority of Protestant denominations. The Orthodox doctrine is that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist truly become the Most Precious Body and Blood of our Saviour. Most Protestants, on the other hand, tend to see this as purely a symbolic matter, choosing to concentrate on the words of Christ – “Do this in remembrance of me”. This line is, of course, only a very small part of Christ’s institution of the Eucharist.

In the account of the Last Supper in the Gospel of St John, Christ tells us that this sacrament is for the unity of the faith, that His disciples might be one. How, then, can we share this most sacred of Mysteries with those with whom we have no unity? A (rather strange, it must be said) response to this might be that “well, we are all Christians”. Only in the most basic of senses, this may be true. But we, as Orthodox Christians, believe that the Orthodox Church holds, uniquely, the fullness of truth. It carries the traditions and faith of the Apostles, and therefore springs from the salvific teaching of Christ Himself. Any theological deviation from this faith is, by definition, lacking in truth.

Another scriptural justification for the practice of closed communion comes from St Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians – “So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.” One of the reasons that this is apparently such a difficult issue in our modern, Western, society is the rise of the oppressive atmosphere of pluralism. This doctrine attempts to teach us that all opinions, beliefs and ideas are equally valid, and that it is in some sense morally wrong to question anyone else’s views or to promote a known truth of your own. Of course, as Orthodox Christians we know that this simply cannot work. There can be no such thing as a pluralist Orthodoxy. This does not, of course, mean that we should be judgmental, prejudicial or condemnatory. We are clearly commanded in the Gospel to love our neighbours, and even our enemies. It is sometimes a difficult balance to achieve, but we are extremely fortunate that we have two millennia of Church Tradition and wisdom to draw upon.

Finally, I would like to quote an extract from an online article on this subject – “It is crucial to point out that the Orthodox practice of “closed” communion is not a judgment against a person or their standing in God’s eyes or the potential of their salvation. It is not a way of saying that some are “good” and others are “bad”. The practice of receiving communion together is the outward expression of having all things in common, in faith and worship. It is the fruit of unity.”

----------


## euphemia

bump

----------


## heavenlyboy34

No voice lesson yesterday. 6th Sunday after Pentacost and 6th Sunday of Matthew.  Gospel-Matthew 9:1-8 Epistle Romans 12:6-14.  Nice day overall.  update: homily is here-


I think non-orthodox people will find this one interesting because he does an explanation of antements, the divine liturgy (what it is and why we need it), and related stuff.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Been lazy about this log lately, sowwy. :/  Voice lesson in the AM  because nobody showed up for rehearsal. :P  Fr. Chris is still out of  town, so I didn't bother to record Fr Mansour's homily.  God bless him,  but he's a boring speaker.  

7/26 we celebrated; The Holy  Righteous Martyr Paraskeva of Roman and 8th Sunday of Matthew.   Hieromartyrs Hermolaus, Hermippus, and Hermocrates of Nicomedia;  Venerable Gerntios first settler of St Anne skete on Athos; Moses the  Hungarian; Sabbas III, archbishop of Serbia; Priest Jacob Netsvetov,  enlightener of the Alaskan peoples.

Epistle: Galatians 3:23-4:4  Gospel Matthew 14:14-22.
9th sunday after Pentacost and ninth sunday of Matthew
Relics translation of Proto-martyr Stephen the Archdeacon
Venerable Photeini the wonderworker of Carpasia in Cyrus
Blessed Basil the fool-for-Christ, wonderworker of Moscow

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Fairly ordinary day.  Voice lesson@8, sparsely attended rehearsal@9, usual liturgy@10.  

Eleventh Sunday after Pentecost and Eleventh sunday of Matthew.  After-feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos. Recovery from Edessa of the Icon of Christ Not Made By Hands.Eptistle 1 Corinthians 9:2-12  Gospel Matthew 18:23-35.  Will upload vids of the homily ASAP.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Fairly average day.  Lots of people are out of town, so rather slow.  We had a substitute director, Alisha leading choir.  Fr. Monsour did the homily.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

A friend suggested I share this.   I like it better than what Fr. Monsour did. 

*Sunday, August 23, 2015:* *Twelfth Sunday after Pentecost & Twelfth Sunday of Matthew*
 Leave-taking of the Dormition of the Theotokos Martyr Lupus, servant  of the Great-Martyr Demetrios; Hieromartyr Irenaios, bishop of Lyons;  Venerable Nicholas and Dionysios of Olympus
*EPISTLE:* 1 Corinthians 15:1-11*GOSPEL:* Matthew 19:16-26
 Reading the Gospel this morning we need to be careful that we not  draw an economic lesson from Jesus’ words to the young man: “If you  would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and  you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” These words are  directed to the young man personally and not to the Church generally;  they speak to what is lacking in him not of what is required of all.
 At the same time, I ought not to dismiss our Lord’s words in the  Gospel as if they weren’t applicable to me. St John Chrysostom says that  what Christ criticizes here isn’t “money itself but the wills of those  who are taken captive by it.” While I may not have been called to a life  of evangelical or monastic poverty, I have been called—as have we  all—to follow Jesus wholeheartedly and without reservation.
 A life of Christian discipleship requires from me more than simply  not sinning—as if that were even possible. It is not enough that I avoid  the sin of avarice; I must also be _generous_. It is the absence  of generosity that causes the fall of the young man. It isn’t that he  is a horrible sinner but rather not even a middling saint. His fault  isn’t that he loves money but that he doesn’t love to be generous _with_  his money. He is, in a word, stingy and this Chrysostom says “is an  impediment to gaining the Kingdom” of God (“The Gospel of Matthew,” _ACCS NT_ vol Ib, p. 102),

 Now compare the young man to St Paul.
 The Apostle is so magnanimous, so generous of spirit, that he doesn’t  care who preaches the Gospel, only that it is preached and that the  Corinthians “hold it fast” and not believe in vain. In another place, he  says that
Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and  some also from goodwill: The former preach Christ from selfish ambition,  not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter  out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.  What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth,  Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice” (Philippians 1:19-26, NJKV).Evil men, for evil reasons and at great cost to Paul preach the  Gospel and the Apostle rejoices! He doesn’t begrudgingly acknowledge  that even evil men can do good. Nor does he minimize the malicious  intent that leads his opponents use the Gospel as a means to increase  his suffering. No, Paul looks unflinchingly at the situation and  rejoices! He thanks God and praise the that are spoken words even as  he acknowledges the sinfulness of the speaker.
 Unlike the young man in the Gospel, Paul is generous of heart. He is  generous in his love for Christ and in his hope that none “should perish  but that all should come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9, NJKV).
 And all of this is the fruit of the Apostle personal commitment to Jesus Christ.
 Living as we do in a religious culture deformed by an unhealthy  individualism, we sometimes shy away from this language. Too  often “personal” is setup in opposition to the life of the Church and  Holy Tradition. And yet nothing could be further from the truth!
 What does Paul say to the Corinthians? They are to hold fast to what they have_ received._ That is, they are to be obedient to the tradition that was passed on to them—whether by word or epistle (see 2 Thessalonians 2:15). In saying this Paul is simply asking them to imitate his example even as he imitates Christ (see 1 Corinthians 11:1).  What does Paul say to the Corinthians? “I delivered to you as of first  importance what I also received.” He then goes on to offer a summary of  the Gospel, “that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the  Scriptures, that He was buried, that He rose on the third day in  accordance with the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to  the Twelve. ” The _kergyma,_ the preaching of the Gospel, is not a matter of private interpretation or the opinion of an individual. It is rather the _tradition_ of the Church validated by the witness and experience of the Apostles among whom Paul is included as “one untimely born.”
 For the Apostle Paul, and so for us today, a personal relationship  with Jesus Christ presupposes not only the apostolic witness written in  the New Testament but that same witness embodied in Holy Tradition, in  the teaching passed down from generation to generation from the time of  the apostles to our day.
 And above all else, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ means  to live in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. To be in a  full sense a disciple of Christ means to live as a member of that  community drawn out of the world and drawn together in Christ to become  His Body.
 So what about the young man in the Gospel?
 Sadly, he seems to have loved his wealth more than Christ. When told  what he needed to do to become perfect, he decided instead to follow his  own will. His many possessions and the status the afford him matter  more than eternal life. His sorrow is not the “godly sorrow [that]  produces repentance leading to salvation.” It is rather “the sorrow of  the world [that] produces death” (2 Corinthians 7:10 NJKV).
 The hard lesson of the Gospel this morning is this: I need to ask  myself what death-dealing sorrow do I hold on to? For the young man in  the Gospel, this was his many possessions. But what is it for me? What  holds me back from surrendering my life fully and in love to Christ and  His will for me? What is it that makes not a horrible sinner but which  keeps me from being even a middling saint?
 In other words, what must change in me so that, like Paul, I can  follow Christ so wholeheartedly that I rejoice in the salvation of  others even when it seems to comes at my expense?
 This hard lesson is not the end of what we hear this morning. Left to  only my own ability, sacrificial love is beyond me. But by God’s grace  such love it is possible for me as it is for you. Let us brothers and  sisters take the opportunity that Christ has given us today.
 In Christ,
 +Fr Gregory

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Fourteenth Sunday after Pentecost & Fourteenth Sunday of Matthew

Commemoration of Archangel Michael’s miracle in Colossae

;
Archippos of Hierapolis; 
Martyrs Eudoxios, Zeno, Romulus and Makarios at Melitene in Armenia


Gospel-Matthew 22:2-14 Epistle 1 Corinthians 1:21-2:4

Quite busy day toady.  I made a video of Fr Chris' homily, so I'll share that ASAP.  Dormition and Nativity season are coming soon, so the workload is slowly getting heavier.    My director made me a thank you note just in regards to my work with the choir and voice lessons.  I was like awwww!  How nice! Saw my friends and mama after church.   I've been thinking that I should probably get a confession in before the end of the year.  Not very good at that yet. :/

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Exaltation of the Holy Cross.  Repose of John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople; Venerable-martyr Makarios the New of Thessalonica; Venerable-martyr Joseph of Dionysiou Monastary on Athos.

Busy day, but not so much as usual.  Thankfully, Orthodox Churches don't observe national holy-days like "Patriot Day", so I didn't have to sit through any 9/11 absurdities.    Will be posting the homily ASAP. 

ETA: Today was Fr. Chris' birthday, so we had festivities instead of a regular coffee hour.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Can't write much ATM. Busy day, though. My Sister in Christ is getting married in November, so I've had a lot on my mind. 

17th Sunday after Pentacost and First Sunday of Luke. The Apostles Aristarchos, Zenon, and Mark of the Seventy, New-martyr Aquilina of Thessalonica; Venerable Ignatius, abbot in Asia Minor; Venerable Savvatios of Solovsky.

Epistle 2 Corinthians 6:16-7:1, Gospel Luke 5:1-11

Video of the homily coming ASAP.

----------


## fisharmor

Our own russophile celebrated the Exaltation of the Cross on the Gregorian date???
Tsk tsk.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Our own russophile celebrated the Exaltation of the Cross on the Gregorian date???
> Tsk tsk.


The parish is in the Antiochian jurisdiction(and my particular parish is autocephalous), not Russian. *sigh*  The ROCOR chuch in my area is too far out of my way.  Not sure exactly how to feel about New Calendrism yet, but ATM I don't care for it. I had no say in the matter. The church also has pews, which is not a Russian tradition (or any Orthodox tradition, AFAIK).

----------


## r3volution 3.0

Huh, just stumbled on this thread; I didn't realize that you were Orthodox heavenlyboy. 

For what it's worth, all of my arguments about the practical, social benefits of the Catholic Church apply also (more or less) to the Orthodox Church.

A book recommendation: John Julius Norwich's "A Short History of Byzantium," or the full trilogy (of which the former is an abridgement) if you're feeling frisky.

If you're not very familiar with that history, it might give you even more appreciation for your faith.

The Greeks manned the wall against the barbarians while Europe was in the womb, for which they ought always be remembered.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Huh, just stumbled on this thread; I didn't realize that you were Orthodox heavenlyboy. 
> 
> For what it's worth, all of my arguments about the practical, social benefits of the Catholic Church apply also (more or less) to the Orthodox Church.
> 
> A book recommendation: John Julius Norwich's "A Short History of Byzantium," or the full trilogy (of which the former is an abridgement) if you're feeling frisky.
> 
> If you're not very familiar with that history, it might give you even more appreciation for your faith.
> 
> The Greeks manned the wall against the barbarians while Europe was in the womb, for which they ought always be remembered.


Cool! My particular parish is Antiochian, originating in what was then Byzantium(hence all the byzantine chant used in liturgy).  I'll look into that book on amazon, thanks.  *hugs*

----------


## HVACTech

> Cool! My particular parish is Antiochian, originating in what was then Byzantium(hence all the byzantine chant used in liturgy).  I'll look into that book on amazon, thanks.  *hugs*


Hmm. it is nice that you went to church.  

are you familiar with, the 3rd Roman empire? 
as in like,
The Holy Roman empire? 

like for instance, when it started and when it ended?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Hmm. it is nice that you went to church.  
> 
> are you familiar with, the 3rd Roman empire? 
> as in like,
> The Holy Roman empire? 
> 
> like for instance, when it started and when it ended?


Not nearly as much as I'd like to be.  Love me some history.

----------


## Sola_Fide

> This is very sad to hear.
> 
> If you would have talked about how the Spirit had opened your eyes to the depths of your sin, how God had showed you your absolute spiritual deadness, and how He opened your eyes to the truth of the gospel...that Jesus' perfect life has been imputed to you and how He has fulfilled the law on your behalf so that you now can stand before the Father without blemish, if you would have talked about the wonder and awe that God chose you purely by grace and that not only do you not deserve heaven, but rather you deserve Hell for your sin...
> 
> If you would have talked about any of this, then what a wonderful day of rejoicing it would be.  But instead you talked about how the people at church were nice and the choir sang well.  That's all garbage compared to knowing the riches of grace.  I pray the Lord will put a heart of flesh in you and wake you from your spiritual deadness!  Only He can do it!


After all these pages of church nonsense, I still think this is the important post in this thread. ^^^

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Finally getting around to writing about Sunday.  Most notably, it was the last day of the annual Festival (Feast Of The Middle East). Ticket prices were higher this year, so I didn't buy any food-but did enter a raffle. Helped babysit the kids in their little kid zone thing...made sure they behaved well and didn't hurt themselves/others and so forth. Kids are funny. 

Epistle- 2 Corinthians 9:6-11  Gospel- Luke 6:31-36    Fr. Chris continued his homily series on what it means to be a member of the Church. Will share video of that one too ASAP.

18th Senday after Pentecost and Second Sunday of Luke.Heiromartyr Hierotheos, bishop of Athens; Heiromartyr Peter of Capitolia in Syria; martyrs Domnina and her daughters of Syria; Gurios, first archbishop of Kazan and Baranouphios, bishop of Tver; and Martyrs Stephen and Elizabeth of Serbia.

----------


## Christian Liberty

> After all these pages of church nonsense, I still think this is the important post in this thread. ^^^


Narcissitic much?  LOL!

----------


## HVACTech

> Not nearly as much as I'd like to be.  Love me some history.


just so I get it straight. you are some form of Catholic. (?)
and are unaware of the 3rd Roman empire. 

the early Greeks as well as the early Romans had a PROFOUND influence on History. 
such as. they determined the diameter of the Earth. 
in 240 BC, 

Eratosthenes' Calculation of Earth's Circumference
www.windows2universe.org/.../w2u_eratosthen...
Windows to the Universe
Jul 20, 2007 - In 240 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes made the first good measurement of ... Eratosthenes understood that if he could determine the distance ... have to multiply that distance by 50 to find the circumference of Earth!

and then we have Copernicus. 

Synopsis

Nicolaus Copernicus was born on February 19, 1473 in Torun, Poland. Circa 1508, Copernicus developed his own celestial model of a heliocentric planetary system. Around 1514, he shared his findings in the Commentariolus. His second book on the topic, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, *was banned by the Roman Catholic Church* not long after his May 24, 1543 death in Frauenburg, Poland.

http://www.biography.com/people/nico...rnicus-9256984

----------


## RJB

> His second book on the topic, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, *was banned by the Roman Catholic Church* not long after his May 24, 1543 death in Frauenburg, Poland.
> 
> http://www.biography.com/people/nico...rnicus-9256984


For some history that you might find valid for your discussion.  HB is Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.  1543 was about 500 years after the Great Schism.

----------


## euphemia

> Epistle- 2 Corinthians 9:6-11  Gospel- Luke 6:31-36    Fr. Chris continued his homily series on what it means to be a member of the Church.


We are attending an Anglican church (Episcopal, without the baggage).  I think that means we are a week ahead of you in the calendar.  

A while back, I asked you how you think your focus on getting to know God through the liturgy has changed you.  Have you had time to think about that?

----------


## HVACTech

> For some history that you might find valid for your discussion.  HB is Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.  1543 was about 500 years after the Great Schism.


thank you. so,
the great Schism was NOT M Luther and the beginning of the protestants?

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> For some history that you might find valid for your discussion.  HB is Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.  1543 was about 500 years after the Great Schism.


This^^ There's not sufficient time in any Orthodox homily or class (unless it's very specialized or a seminary class for aspiring priests or something) to get into RCC history except to discuss commonalities, differences, and RC heresies.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> We are attending an Anglican church (Episcopal, without the baggage).  I think that means we are a week ahead of you in the calendar.  
> 
> A while back, I asked you how you think your focus on getting to know God through the liturgy has changed you.  Have you had time to think about that?


I have thought about it, but haven't finished coming up with a sufficiently eloquent response yet.

----------


## HVACTech

> We are attending an Anglican church (Episcopal, without the baggage).  I think that means we are a week ahead of you in the calendar.  
> 
> A while back, I asked you how you think your focus on getting to know God through the liturgy has changed you.  Have you had time to think about that?


(not to butt in) 

today, the entire world uses the "Gregorian" calendar. 

Gregory was the Pope at the time.
so, what the Pope "knows" about astronomy is not a small item. (from a historical perspective) 

just FYI.

----------


## euphemia

I wasn't asking for eloquence.  I want to know how you feel and think differently.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> thank you. so,
> the great Schism was NOT M Luther and the beginning of the protestants?


The Reformation was much later than the Great Schism. Luther nailed his 95 theses to the All Saints' church door in 1517. The mutual East-West excommunication was in 1054.

----------


## Sola_Fide

> Narcissitic much?  LOL!


Well, it's the only post that mentions the gospel.   All this church ritual nonsense means less than nothing.

----------


## HVACTech

> The Reformation was much later than the Great Schism. Luther nailed his 95 theses to the All Saints' church door in 1517. The mutual East-West excommunication was in 1054.


pardon me, but that sounds like it has to do with the "crusades" 
thank to all. I learnt something.

----------


## Christian Liberty

> Well, it's the only post that mentions the gospel.   All this church ritual nonsense means less than nothing.


I was sort of teasing, lol

----------


## HVACTech

> Well, it's the only post that mentions the gospel.   All this church ritual nonsense means less than nothing.


is it correct sir, to understand that the word. "Gospel" 
is a synonym for..
"Godspell" ?
is this a reasonable inquisition?

----------


## fisharmor

> I wasn't asking for eloquence.  I want to know how you feel and think differently.


I hope you don't mind me butting in, but I've only been Orthodox for a year so I can offer some perspective.

At the church where we were members 15 years ago, there was a supplemental "hymnal" which was all praise band style songs.  The type of thing young folks like then-me were supposed to be into.
The songs were all alphabetically organized in the book, and the largest section was the "I" section.
I don't even remember the names of the songs, but they all started "I want", "I love", "I yearn", et cetera.

And ever since I was young, it irritated me that the confession at LCMS churches switched in the early 1980s from using first person pronouns to third person.  So "I confess" turned into "We confess".  Leaving aside the discussion of the absurdity of confessing sinfulness as a group... the point is in my lifetime I saw the confession start using plural pronouns, and I saw hymns reduced to smarmy emotions like "I wanna be Jesus' buddy".  The teeth were pulled out of sin, and the glory was pulled out of the liturgy.

My answer is, I don't think and feel differently.  I found a group that is capable of approaching Christianity as if we're adults.  Which doesn't dumb down anything for visitors because we assume they're adults, too.  Which doesn't dumb anything down for children, because they will eventually be adults.

I guess the biggest difference for me is... I actually have friends at church.  Every negative thing that I used to have stabbing me in the face every Sunday is gone.  One thing was not knowing whether the person I was talking to at church was... well, serious.  Whether it was someone who believed something, or was just champing at the bit for the next voters' assembly where the next big innovation in praise band worship was really going to take him to new levels of enthusiastic euphoria.

I still catch myself looking at these people I've known for a year now and thinking "You, who are supposed to be a fellow branch of Christ's vine: am I going to have to break off all contact with you at some point?"  And the answer keeps coming up no.

Coming from an Anglican perspective, I think you can envision how... liberating that would be.

----------


## HVACTech

> I hope you don't mind me butting in, but I've only been Orthodox for a year so I can offer some perspective.
> 
> At the church where we were members 15 years ago, there was a supplemental "hymnal" which was all praise band style songs.  The type of thing young folks like then-me were supposed to be into.
> The songs were all alphabetically organized in the book, and the largest section was the "I" section.
> I don't even remember the names of the songs, but they all started "I want", "I love", "I yearn", et cetera.
> 
> And ever since I was young, it irritated me that the confession at LCMS churches switched in the early 1980s from using first person pronouns to third person.  So "I confess" turned into "We confess".  Leaving aside the discussion of the absurdity of confessing sinfulness as a group... the point is in my lifetime I saw the confession start using plural pronouns, and I saw hymns reduced to smarmy emotions like "I wanna be Jesus' buddy".  The teeth were pulled out of sin, and the glory was pulled out of the liturgy.
> 
> My answer is, I don't think and feel differently.  I found a group that is capable of approaching Christianity as if we're adults.  Which doesn't dumb down anything for visitors because we assume they're adults, too.  Which doesn't dumb anything down for children, because they will eventually be adults.
> ...


Bender. I want you to know something.

I found that Liberating.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Rather ordinary and mellow today. Fr. Monsour delivered the homily. Don't have time to post it...will post that along with others when I can get them formatted and uploaded and such. I also didn't totally understand it because of Fr. Mansour's very thick accent. :/

Epistle- Titus 3:8-15
Gospel Luke 8:5-15

Everyone is mourning amypi along with us. I lit a candle in her memory.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Good day. Fr. Chris is back again.  Emphasis on finding sanity through focus on Christ by expounding on the story of the demoniac. Also on the importance on being in God's presence daily with a prayer habit. Video of the homily coming when I get a proper format converter.  Gospel-Luke 8:26, Epistle 2 Corinthians 2:16-20. Lulz at lunch hour, sorting out plans for partying after liturgy during mid December to celebrate HB34 day.

----------


## euphemia

> Well, it's the only post that mentions the gospel.   All this church ritual nonsense means less than nothing.


I think you are mistaken in this.  After being in a traditional evangelical church for decades, we found our way to a church that worships in the Anglican style.  Having never used liturgy in church, we found it to be a wonderfully refreshing thing.  There is life in the liturgy.  It requires participation on the part of the believer.  Our church is very hearty in its corporate confessional worship.  I can't begin to tell you.  We read a lot of Scripture every week.  Today was a most joy-filled excercise in the means of grace.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> I think you are mistaken in this.  After being in a traditional evangelical church for decades, we found our way to a church that worships in the Anglican style.  Having never used liturgy in church, we found it to be a wonderfully refreshing thing.  There is life in the liturgy.  It requires participation on the part of the believer.  Our church is very hearty in its corporate confessional worship.  I can't begin to tell you.  We read a lot of Scripture every week.  Today was a most joy-filled excercise in the means of grace.


Indeed! Liturgy is not just a bunch of songs with a speech in the middle. It is a way of life. The gospel and the Eucharist sacrament are the very heart of every Sunday _ekklesia_. As I note in my blog, there is a gospel and epistle reading every week. These are always solemnly read aloud (more accurately, chanted in one of the 8 tones). Even in the marriage sacrament (which I celebrated today at a friend's wedding), it is emphasized that the marriage is not just about the spouses, but their union in Christ and His central role in the marriage.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

Gospel Luke 8:41-56 Epistle Hebrews 2:2-10
 The synaxis of the Archangels Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and all the bodiless powers of Heaven. Seventh Sunday of Luke


 Very nice day. Emphasis of the homily as serving others. After liturgy, brief lunch and then back to church for my friends' wedding.  My first Orthodox wedding! I thought it was very interesting and beautiful. There was a Great and Little Litany, as typical of a liturgy. There was also a crowning of the couple and all sorts of other beautiful things. Unlike Western marriages, the bride isn't kept secret until “Here Comes The Bride” is played. She participates equally. It is made clear that Christ is the center of the marriage as well.  It was a long and elaborate ceremony, with bride and groom discussing how they met and came to love each other. After the formal ceremony was done by Fr Chris, Nathan did a funny and beautiful speech/roast in honor of the couple which I found brilliant.


 Then at last, dinner-which took a really long time because there were soooo many people there. Believe it or not, the couple chose Mexican cuisine.  LOL  Then the obligatory dance party.  Kind of silly because the floor was carpet instead of proper wood or marlay. But amusing. A very blessed event!
ETA: bonus-exactly 1 year ago from this past Sunday was my Chrismation into the Holy Orthodox Church.

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## Dr. Dog

> I think you are mistaken in this.  After being in a traditional evangelical church for decades, we found our way to a church that worships in the Anglican style.


High church or low church Anglican?

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## heavenlyboy34

Missed last week, sorry. :/

This week.
25th Sunday after pentecost and 9th Sunday of Luke. Feast of The Entrance of the Theotokos Apostles Philemon, Apphia, Archippos and Onesimos of the Seventy; Clement, bishop of Ochrid and enlightener of Bulgaria; Marty Cecilia of Rome and those with her; Venerable Kallistos Xanthopoulos of Athos; Marty Michael, prince of Tver.
Epistle-Hebrews 9:1-7 Gospel Luke 12:16-21

Mellow day.  No work because the director took the day off. I got to sit and enjoy liturgy, which was interesting. Fr Chris' message focused on finding unessential things in life keeping us from a fuller life in Christ and getting rid of them. Still haven't got a good converter or I'd post t00bs. One day I'll find one and post a t00b bomb of homilies in here.   My godmother was sick and couldn't come to church. :'(  I had way too many sweets at coffee hour, lol.  A friend bought a bunch at the bake sale and gave me the stuff he didn't want...baklava and all sorts of tasty things.  As usual, shocking people with my radical opinions on history, politics, etc. 

Last week
24th Sunday after Pentacost and Eighth Sunday of Luke  Martyrs Guria, Shamuna and Habib the Deacon of Edessa  Thomas the New, patriarch of Constantinople; Venerable Paisios Velichkovsky.

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## heavenlyboy34

Slow but relaxing day for me. Chanters did the music like last week, so I got to relax. I don't think it sounds as good, though.  

Homily focused on baptism generally and Orthodox baptism particularly. Also Christ as the new Adam.Will share t00bz when possible. 
Gospel Mark 1:1-8 Epistle Timothy 4:5-8

Forefast of and Sunday before Theophany of Christ  Holy Prophet Malachi; Martyr Gordios of Cappadocia; Venerable Thomas the Wonderworker of Lesbos; Venerable Genevieve of Paris

Learned that my Brother Phil is having new problems with the metal in his leg. :'( Pray for him.

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## heavenlyboy34

Interesting day, though slower paced than usual. Tony directed the choir. Homily delivered by Fr Mansour.
Will upload later if I can. Fr. Chris is missed, but was ill.
Sunday after Theophany. Gregory, Bishop
of Nyssa; Marcian the Priest of Constantinople; Dometian, Bishop of
Melitene; Venerable Paul of Obnora and Makarios of Pisma; Bishop
Theophan the Recluse

Epistle Ephisians 4:7-13  Gospel Matthew 4:12-17

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## heavenlyboy34

Fr.Chris is back!  Emphasis onfaith in salvation and asking God for help and being thankful inovercoming adversity. Also a bit about the Eucharist and the meaningof several parts of the liturgy. (first of a series on the meanings of the parts of Liturgy) I get the sense that cradle Orthodox don't appreciate the depth and profundity of the liturgy as much as us converts do. Mamechka had to leave early so I only saw her briefly. Hugs and kisses all around after church. 


Epistle Hebrews 13:17-21 Gospel Luke17:12-19.  Learned that Fr. Chris recently had a mini-stroke.  Verysadz.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

31st Sunday after Pentacost and 14th Sunday of Luke. Blessed Xenia of St Petersburg, fool-for-Christ. Righteous Mother Xenia the merciful of Rome, Hieromartyr Babylas of Sicily; Venerable Philotheos, founder of Philotheou monastery on Athos.

Continuing series on the Divine Liturgy, primarily the Eucharist. Fr. Chris brought all the elements into the center of the church and prepared communion there. A very educational and beautiful experience.   One of these days I'm going to get around to uploading homilies.

Getting better at singing tenor now that I've had a few voice lessons...Getting to middle C pretty easily, higher than that is difficult, but becoming more natural.

Epistle Timothy 1:15-17 Gospel Luke 18:35-43

----------


## TER



----------


## heavenlyboy34

^^  The arrangement of "Blessed Be The Name Of The Lord" that i'm accustomed to has become one of my favorite choral pieces, secular or sacred.

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## heavenlyboy34

Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee.  Epistle-Timothy 3:10-15, Gospel Luke 18:10-14 Pretty average day overall..but learned my friend Rzoon is pregnant nao.  yay!

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## heavenlyboy34

Busy Lenten season is busy. :O Finally getting a bit caught up here.


 2nd Sunday of Great Lent
 Archbishop of Thessalonica Martyr Matrona of Thessalonica; Martyrs Philetos the Senator, his wife Lydia of Rome and those with them; Paul, Bishop of Corinth



 Very long liturgy-the Liturgy of St Basil The Great. Bishop John of the Diocese of Worcester and New England presided over liturgy. Pretty interesting experience.  I recorded his homily.



 Singing is feeling stronger every week.

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## heavenlyboy34

Continuing the Lenten journey. Veneration of the Precious and Life-Giving Cross  Abbot Nikitas the Confessor of Medikion; Venrable Joseph the Hymnographer; New-martyr Paul the Russian

Per tradition, still using St Basil's liturgy-quite a bit longer than Chrysostom's.  Epistle Hebrews 4:14-5:6 Gospel Mark 8:34-9:1

Fr Chris continuing the series about Liturgy-this time on the importance of bringing children to church.

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## heavenlyboy34

Fr Chris talked a lot about Orthodox marriage and philosophy today as a continuation on his series about the liturgy within the liturgy. Pretty interesting.  Video coming ASAP. Gospel Mark 9:16-30 Epistle-Hebrews 6:13-20

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## qh4dotcom

Please do all of us and the world a favor next time you go to church

The last time I went to a church several years ago...the priest said "The peace of the Lord be with you

The people at the church replied And also with you.

The Priest said:  "Let us offer each other a sign of peace"

So the priest and all the people exchanged an embrace, handshake, or other appropriate gesture of peace with those near them.

If this happens at your church, please ask those whom you exchange a gesture of peace to wish the whole world peace during elections....and not support any corrupt pro-war politician.

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## heavenlyboy34

Went to confession toady. Went pretty well and I had a nice talk with Fr Chris. There's no confessional in EO tradition, which I like because it's more personal.

----------


## fisharmor

> Fr Chris talked a lot about Orthodox marriage and philosophy today as a continuation on his series about the liturgy within the liturgy. Pretty interesting.  Video coming ASAP. Gospel Mark 9:16-30 Epistle-Hebrews 6:13-20


I was just talking to my wife about this recently.
Well, not this in particular.

What I noticed is that, when we were Lutherans, there was really a lot of effort spent on convincing everyone that we didn't have to do anything as Christians.
We didn't contribute to our salvation, we didn't have to follow traditions, we didn't have to read any theology, we didn't have to do anything really.
Just show up and occasionally vote to obliterate yet another historical artifact that didn't have any meaning any longer.

If we wanted to actually KNOW something, actually study something, well gee, that's great!  These other people want to know too!  Why don't YOU start a study group and check that out!
Why don't YOU serve on the Board of Education!  You're a perfect candidate, because you're interested in filling that abject dearth of knowledge we left you with!
Why don't YOU serve on the worship committee!  If you don't think it's happening correctly, then YOU should spend YOUR time to fix it!

To any protestants (in particular) reading this thread:
I have literally not had to DO anything since becoming Orthodox.
I've been sitting back for the last two years and just absorbing everything.
The most I've had to actually DO, is ask questions.  

In my former life, I would have to prepare for two hours to teach a class on a subject I didn't know anything about, and the group would discuss what we thought about things, and if we ever did get to an answer it was a half-assed platitude scribbled in the margin of a study guide.  Most of the time we just ended up with more questions.

In my current life, the economics of my Christian education are so overwhelmingly reversed that I still don't fully believe it.  I ask one simple question like "why is it that only during the presanctified liturgy, you close the curtain halfway?" and I get a ten minute response that goes over how the entire liturgy is also an allegory for the public ministry of Christ, and what parts of the liturgy line up with which parts of His ministry, but since the lamb is presanctified that particular part isn't obscured.

I put in the tiniest fraction of the effort I put in previously, and it pays off a hundredfold.

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## fisharmor

> If this happens at your church, please ask those whom you exchange a gesture of peace to wish the whole world peace during elections....and not support any corrupt pro-war politician.


Part of the Orthodox service is the Cherubic Hymn, which is this (actual wording can vary):

_"Let us, who mystically represent the cherubim and sing the thrice-holy hymn to the life-giving trinity, lay aside all worldly cares, that we may receive the King of all, invisibly escorted by the angelic hosts. Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia."_

In our parish, we repeat the verse "now lay aside all earthly cares" three times, and then we often repeat the stanza as many times as necessary for the priest and deacon to prepare for the Great Entrance, wherein the prepared bread and wine are processed in front of the congregation.

So we're actually singing "now lay aside all earthly cares" as many as nine times.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Part of the Orthodox service is the Cherubic Hymn, which is this (actual wording can vary):
> 
> _"Let us, who mystically represent the cherubim and sing the thrice-holy hymn to the life-giving trinity, lay aside all worldly cares, that we may receive the King of all, invisibly escorted by the angelic hosts. Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia."_
> 
> In our parish, we repeat the verse "now lay aside all earthly cares" three times, and then we often repeat the stanza as many times as necessary for the priest and deacon to prepare for the Great Entrance, wherein the prepared bread and wine are processed in front of the congregation.
> 
> So we're actually singing "now lay aside all earthly cares" as many as nine times.


You mean the people in your parish sing along with the choir? That's interesting.  That's reserved for special occasions at my parish.

----------


## TER

> You mean the people in your parish sing along with the choir?


That's the way it should be done, and how it was done from the earliest established liturgies of the early Church!  After all, all those present in the liturgy are active participants in the service to the Lord, giving the amen, responding to the exhortations of the priest and deacons, and co-worshipping together the Holy Trinity as one body of Christ.  It is unfortunate that in time much of this understanding has been lost amongst the local Churches (especially in the west) and has been relegated as a service done primarily by a particular choir.   Acoustically, this may be pleasing, since a choir often contains the most talented singers from amongst the parish, but the purpose is for the choir to _lead_ _all the other members of the congregation_ (the laity in particular, including the children), into participation in the prayers, hymns, and doxologies offered to God.

I too grew in a parish where, with the exception of a few members singing from within the pews, the choir hymned certain parts of the liturgy while the laity were more observants rather than active participants, at least externally.  It wasn't until just recently, after studying the liturgical developments of the early Church, that I learned the truly important role of the laity in every divine service of the Church.  In fact, without a laity to witness and co-worship along with the ordained clergy, a Divine Liturgy is impossible to take place and forbidden by the Holy Canons.

Now, I am much more engaged in the liturgical services, singing along with the choir while standing in the nave, bowing and kneeling at the appointed times, responding to the exhortations of the clergy, and praying to God along with my fellow members the intercessions of the Church for peace in the world.  So too have I found the parish in general become much more active with the hymns and prayers.  This reversion is happening in many parishes, having been helped by the likes of men like Father Alexander Schmemann and his contemporaries.

   It is not a mere mental assent and approval of what the priest is saying and doing, but rather a cooperation and communal prayer of our mind, our soul, and our body, with not only the priest, but with those around us, and even with those far from us in spatial distance and even historic time, yet together, present before God and His Heavenly Hosts and in unity as members in Christ.  

And it is this experience of the Holy Church and the members in it, and, above all, the grace of God (by Whom all things find life and being), whereby the liturgies and the prayers we have now are the same in foundation and basic form which existed from the very beginning of the history of the Church.

For further information, I recommend these books:


http://www.amazon.com/The-Orthodox-L.../dp/0881411000

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/091...8HDY5QD9829VBT

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...8HDY5QD9829VBT

----------


## fisharmor

> You mean the people in your parish sing along with the choir? That's interesting.  That's reserved for special occasions at my parish.


Well, I am in the choir, but yes, the people sing with the choir.  It's particularly quiet during the Troparion and other parts where we're the only ones who know what's going on.

BUT, let me add something you (and unfortunately probably also for TER) about the people singing.
The people probably WANT to sing.  So go to Fr Chris and tell him that this angry Orthodox guy on this political forum you're on has some sage advice.


PRINT. THE.  MUSIC.
Don't hand newcomers that little black Divine Liturgy book.  Throw those away.  They are useless to singers.
Print out a large book that has staffs on it with ALL.  FOUR.  PARTS.  Unless Antiochian doesn't have four parts.  I don't know.  The point is, not everyone is either a soprano or a habitual wearer of tight underwear.  We baritones need the music too.

Second, if you have a choir loft, consider not using it.  I'll leave it to others to determine whether having the choir above and behind the people sends some kind of message.  The main point here is, if some angry baritone Ron Paul fan is singing along with your PRINTED MUSIC, the choir will not only hear it, but will ID that guy and rope him into being in the actual choir.  Before you know it the choir proper will consist of a fifth of the total attendance.

----------


## TER

This is an excellent article pertaining to the topic of the laity in the Eucharist assembly 

https://avowofconversation.wordpress...-the-assembly/

----------


## heavenlyboy34

> Well, I am in the choir, but yes, the people sing with the choir.  It's particularly quiet during the Troparion and other parts where we're the only ones who know what's going on.
> 
> BUT, let me add something you (and unfortunately probably also for TER) about the people singing.
> The people probably WANT to sing.  So go to Fr Chris and tell him that this angry Orthodox guy on this political forum you're on has some sage advice.
> 
> 
> PRINT. THE.  MUSIC.
> Don't hand newcomers that little black Divine Liturgy book.  Throw those away.  They are useless to singers.
> Print out a large book that has staffs on it with ALL.  FOUR.  PARTS.  Unless Antiochian doesn't have four parts.  I don't know.  The point is, not everyone is either a soprano or a habitual wearer of tight underwear.  We baritones need the music too.
> ...


 Nicely said. Most of Anitochian choral music is in 4 parts. There are only a few things like the music before and after the gospel reading that are just chanted Byzantine melody transcribed in Western notation. 
(ETA: Straight Byzantine chant is just melody and ison, like all other Orthodox chant.)

We do have a choir loft. We once did a "camp" liturgy in which the choir was in front of the church and everyone in the church had a copy of the music to sing along with. We have a new choir director who is still kind of learning the ropes, so IDK when we'll do that again. Hopefully later this year sometime.

----------


## heavenlyboy34

OMG, This is the busiest Palm Sunday I remember. EVARRR.   Fun, though. The voice lessons are helping me with better tone and 
such.  Chanter did my favorite Byzantine Chant-Rejoice O Bethany. w00t! Epistle: Phillippians 4:4-9 Gospel John 12:1-18

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## heavenlyboy34

Holy Saturday was great!  This is the first year I've had time to go, and I rather liked it.

----------


## fisharmor

Christ is risen!



If there are devout and God-loving people here, let them enjoy this beautiful, radiant festival.  If there are prudent servants, enter joyously into the Lord’s joy.  Whoever may be spent from fasting, enjoy now your reward.  Whoever has toiled from the first hour, receive today your just settlement.  If any came after the third hour, celebrate gratefully.  If any of you arrived after the sixth, have no misgivings, you have lost nothing.  If some have been as late as the ninth, come forward, do not be at a loss.  If any of you have arrived only at the eleventh hour, do not be dismayed for being late. 
The Master is gracious: He accepts the last even as the first; He gives rest to those of the eleventh as well as to those have labored from the first; He is lenient with the last while looking after the first; to one He gives, to the other He gives freely; He accepts the labors and welcomes the effort; honors the deed but commends the intent.  So, all of you, enter into the joy of our Lord: first and second, share the bounty.  Rich and poor alike, celebrate together.  Sober or heedless, honor the day.  Those who fasted and those who did not, rejoice today.  The table is full, everyone fare sumptuously.  The calf is fatted; no one go away hungry.  Everyone, savor the banquet of faith; relish the riches of His goodness.
No one need lament poverty, for the kingdom is seen as universal.  No one need grieve over sins; forgiveness has dawned from the tomb.  No one need fear death; the Savior’s death has freed us from it.  While it’s captive He stifled it.  He despoiled Hades as He descended into it; it was vexed when it tasted His flesh.
Foreseeing this Isaiah proclaimed:  “Hades,” he said, “was vexed when he met You below.”  It was vexed because it was abolished.  It was vexed because it was mocked.  It was vexed because it was slain. It was vexed because it was shackled.  It received a body and encountered God. It took earth and came face to face with heaven.  It took what it saw and fell by what it could not see. 
Death, where is your sting?  Hades, where is your victory?
Christ is risen and you are overthrown.  
Christ is risen and demons have fallen.  
Christ is risen and angels rejoice.  
Christ is risen and life rules.  
Christ is risen and not one dead remains in the tombs.  
For Christ having risen from the dead has become the first fruits of those that slept.  To Him be the glory and the dominion, forever.

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## fisharmor

I've never sung over an hour nearly every day for a whole week before, in my life.
Last night I couldn't go below A.  Normally I can get down to F easily and sometimes all the way down to C.  The other bass is a reader and I'm by myself while he's reading, so we missed out on a lot of basement notes last night.

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## RJB

Indeed he is risen!!!  

I am stuffed.  If anyone wants to know what the real excitement about eggs are around Pascha, give them up for Lent and see what a blessing God has given us in poultry.

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## TER

A blessed Pascha to my brothers and sisters in Christ!  He is Risen!

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## heavenlyboy34

> I've never sung over an hour nearly every day for a whole week before, in my life.
> Last night I couldn't go below A.  Normally I can get down to F easily and sometimes all the way down to C.  The other bass is a reader and I'm by myself while he's reading, so we missed out on a lot of basement notes last night.


You can get down to C? (C2-the second leger line below the bass staff)  why are you singing baritone ever? You are a true bass, comrade!  ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

Agape Vespers this morning @ noonish. Very nice and relaxing. I read the Gospel in Russian and got some nice compliments after.

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## heavenlyboy34

Too busy to log last week. :/ Almost too busy this week too, but I'm squeezing it in!  
Sunday of the Myrrh-bearing women, Pious Joseph and Righteous Nicodemus
Epistle Acts 6:1-7 Gospel Mark 15:43-16:8 Homily recordings to come soon, I hope. :/  Христось воскресь! Воистину воскресь!

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## heavenlyboy34

Back to logging toady!  

Feast of mid-Pentecost.
Fifth Sunday of Pascha: Sunday of the Samaritan Woman&After-feast of Mid-Pentecost. Holy Mratyr Theodosia of Tyre; Righteous martyr Theodosia of Constantinople; Hieromartyr Olvian, Bishop of Aneos and his disciples; New-Martyr John of Smyrna; New-Martyr Andrew Argenti of Chios; John of Ustug, fool-for-Christ
Epistle Acts 11:19-30 Gospel 4:5-42  

Singing pretty well toady. Had a good chat with Tony about everything from Beethoven to the Drug War. Couldn't bring him totally to the anti-prohibitionist side though because there are some drugs he finds too objectionable. SMFH. Ah well-he's 18 and he'll get it eventually. A lot of discussion about the living water mentioned in the Gospel. Discussion of parallels between what John writes and the OT.  

Matthew (a little non-verbal autistic kid related to one of the chanters) was throwing one of his fits and threw something violently at the back of my head. I was like   because I thought I was being pranked/punked. But I just let it go.

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## Biblefundyfun

What do you mean by "chanters"?

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## TER

> What do you mean by "chanters"?


I believe he is referring to those who are singing the psalms and hymns in the liturgical service.  

The singing of hymns and prayers during common liturgical worship goes back, of course, to a time before the New Testament period.  In the early Church, we find this tradition in the Book of Acts.  By the second and third century, pious liturgical developments in hymnology and in the ordos of the worship helped formalize a more concrete and universal liturgical formation structured around the apostolic framework which was handed down by the Apostles and those they ordained.  This resulted in a more aesthetic and structured service incorporating the talents of select individuals within the Church who led the laity in the antiphonal responses and hymning, as well as in the readings from the Old Testament.  Because they chant (or sing) the psalms (which is a tradition which dates back to Jewish practices prior to Christ's Advent), they have been called chanters.

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## Biblefundyfun

there was no church before the time of the New Testament period.  what act scripture are you referring to. What does liturgical mean?

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## heavenlyboy34

> there was no church before the time of the New Testament period. Lol


Incorrect. The NT was written long after the Church began (the first written gospel, Mark, was oral tradition until it was first recorded in c. 70 AD). For further debate on this, please start another thread.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I believe he is referring to those who are singing the psalms and hymns in the liturgical service.  
> 
> The singing of hymns and prayers during common liturgical worship goes back, of course, to a time before the New Testament period.  In the early Church, we find this tradition in the Book of Acts.  By the second and third century, pious liturgical developments in hymnology and in the ordos of the worship helped formalize a more concrete and universal liturgical formation structured around the apostolic framework which was handed down by the Apostles and those they ordained.  This resulted in a more aesthetic and structured service incorporating the talents of select individuals within the Church who led the laity in the antiphonal responses and hymning, as well as in the readings from the Old Testament.  Because they chant (or sing) the psalms (which is a tradition which dates back to Jewish practices prior to Christ's Advent), they have been called chanters.


This^^  The various jurisdictions have slightly different styles (Russian, Byzantine, etc), but they're all chant. Some chant is done by one person, and other is done by a group with some singing _ison_ notes.

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## Biblefundyfun

Deleted. Sorry I keep forgeting to post with comment!

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## erowe1

> I was just talking to my wife about this recently.
> Well, not this in particular.
> 
> What I noticed is that, when we were Lutherans, there was really a lot of effort spent on convincing everyone that we didn't have to do anything as Christians.
> We didn't contribute to our salvation, we didn't have to follow traditions, we didn't have to read any theology, we didn't have to do anything really.
> Just show up and occasionally vote to obliterate yet another historical artifact that didn't have any meaning any longer.
> 
> If we wanted to actually KNOW something, actually study something, well gee, that's great!  These other people want to know too!  Why don't YOU start a study group and check that out!
> Why don't YOU serve on the Board of Education!  You're a perfect candidate, because you're interested in filling that abject dearth of knowledge we left you with!
> ...


That sounds like all the work of the church is being done by some professional subset of it, rather than everyone. This is the opposite of the model the apostles taught the churches they established, where every member of the body has spiritual gifts giving them a role to play in the edification of the rest of the body (such as in 1 Corinthians 12-14). Members weren't just supposed to go to the assembly and sit there and be fed by someone else. They were all to feed and build up one another according to whatever their gifts were.

You feel that this other approach pays off 100-fold for you. But you should also ask yourself what you're doing to edify the rest of the body, not just what some subset of them are doing to edify you.

----------


## erowe1

> Incorrect. The NT was written long after the Church began (the first written gospel, Mark, was oral tradition until it was first recorded in c. 70 AD). For further debate on this, please start another thread.


He didn't say there was no Church before the Gospel of Mark was written. He said there was no Church before the New Testament period.

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## TER

> It's not up for debate. The New Testament is the record of how the church was formed regardless of when the formation of it was written. The church came into being after the resurrection. People could have been chanting there heads of for thousand of years before that for all I care. But I don't see any record the church "chanting" per say in Acts or anywhere else. In fact this is the FIRST time other than the term "Gregorian Chant" That I've ever heard of it in 25 years as a Christian. But That is to be expected in a predominantly Roman Catholic religious forum. Goodness what else you folk get up to. We know what your dirty little fathers have been up to for hundred of years.


Moses and Elijiah appeared with Christ and conversed with Him prior to the Ressurection.  Would you say they were not members of the Church of Christ?

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## TER

> That sounds like all the work of the church is being done by some professional subset of it, rather than everyone.


To say this means you have very little understanding of the important roles all members of the body have and how this has been manifested through the life of the Church.  All are called to participate, but not all are called to preach.

----------


## TER

> Members weren't just supposed to go to the assembly and sit there and be fed by someone else. They were all to feed and build up one another according to whatever their gifts were.


When a child understands that they are but a child, then they can truly learn.  A child has gifts, and learning how to learn is one of the greatest gifts a child can have.  And in God's good time, more fruit can flourish.




> You feel that this other approach pays off 100-fold for you. But you should also ask yourself what you're doing to edify the rest of the body, not just what some subset of them are doing to edify you.


He prays for them and with them, and is in loving fellowship with them.  Would that not be enough?  What then is enough? He also sings in the choir and perhaps helps them with certain projects they need.  Perhaps he does more than you ever will, even as he rests on the shoulders of giants before him. 

Perhaps it is you who are misconstruing what fisharmor wrote?  I leave it to him to explain, as I am sure he will do so better than I can.

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## heavenlyboy34

> He didn't say there was no Church before the Gospel of Mark was written. He said there was no Church before the New Testament period.


Yeah, my point was that there was a Church at that time preserving the Gospel by oral tradition. I should've been clearer, but I was doing several things at once. Maybe sometime I'll have time to make more detailed responses to these things. Thanks.  ~hugs~ Probably next month because after surgery I won't be allowed to do much all summer.

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## Biblefundyfun

> Moses and Elijiah appeared with Christ and conversed with Him prior to the Ressurection.  Would you say they were not members of the Church of Christ?


No! They where not members of the Church as it pertains to this dispensation. Not at all. You need to rightly "divide" the word. That said, are they heaven? Yes, are all believers who believed in the coming savior prior to Christ coming in heaven YES, where they "the Church" No. 
Could they be called "Christians" I guess so.

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## Biblefundyfun

It's not up for debate. The New Testament is the record of how the church was formed regardless of when the formation of it was written. The church came into being after the resurrection. People could have been chanting there heads of for thousand of years before that for all I care. But I don't see any record the church "chanting" per say in Acts or anywhere else. In fact this is the FIRST time other than the term "Gregorian Chant" That I've ever heard of it in 25 years as a Christian. But That is to be expected in a predominantly Roman Catholic religious forum. Goodness what else you folk get up to. We know what your dirty little fathers have been up to for hundred of years.

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## heavenlyboy34

> It's not up for debate. *The New Testament is the record of how the church was formed regardless of when the formation of it was written.*


Acts is, and the Epistles are. Yup.




> The church came into being after the resurrection. People could have been chanting there heads of for thousand of years before that for all I care. But I don't see any record the church "chanting" per say in Acts or anywhere else. In fact this is the FIRST time other than the term "Gregorian Chant" That I've ever heard of it in 25 years as a Christian. But That is to be expected in a predominantly Roman Catholic religious forum.


That's because the technique of singing which we now call "chant"  didn't have an official name at that time in Byzantium when the craft  was created. 





> Goodness what else you folk get up to. We know what your dirty little fathers have been up to for hundred of years.


Actually, you clearly don't know much of anything that you're blathering on about in this thread.

----------


## Biblefundyfun

> To say this means you have very little understanding of the important roles all members of the body have and how this has been manifested through the life of the Church.  All are called to participate, but not all are called to preach.


We are all called to preach and make disciples. We, who are born again from above though Christ ARE ALL now members of a Royal eternal Priest hood and a wise man seeks to save souls and a soul can not be saved without the preaching of the gospel/reading of the word. You clearly do not know your bible sir. I'm not an ordained preacher or minister but I have led many souls to Christ, friends family, work colleagues etc. The only reason a born again human beings are not raptured out of this trash can the moment they are saved is because their "participation" is to seek to get everyone they ever come in to contact saved. We are talking about eternal damnation here friend. All Firemen have to fight fire. That is their participation. We are all eternal fire fighters.

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## heavenlyboy34

> We are all called to preach and make disciples. We, who are born again from above though Christ ARE ALL now members of a Royal eternal Priest hood and a wise man seeks to save souls and a soul can not be saved without the preaching of the gospel/reading of the word. *You clearly do not know your bible sir.* I'm not an ordained preacher or minister but I have led many souls to Christ, friends family, work colleagues etc. The only reason a born again human beings are not raptured out of this trash can the moment they are saved is because their "participation" is to seek to get everyone they ever come in to contact saved. We are talking about eternal damnation here friend. All Firemen have to fight fire. That is their participation. We are all eternal fire fighters.

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## Biblefundyfun

Listen here Heavenlyboy, if your truly are born again, you wouldn't spend another second in the Roman Catholic Church. I don't mean to offend you, this offensive evil organisation is going down with you in or not.

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## Biblefundyfun

> 


I am familiar with the old saying "that's the pot calling the kettle black" but I don't know why you have sent it to me.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Listen here Heavenlyboy, if your truly are born again, you wouldn't spend another second in the Roman Catholic Church. I don't mean to offend you, this offensive evil organisation is going down with you in or not.


I'm not never have been Roman Catholic. Go home-you're drunk.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I am familiar with the old saying "that's the pot calling the kettle black" but I don't know why you have sent it to me.


Because of how ironic in a pot-kettle way it is for someone who doesn't know the bible to tell me I don't know the bible.

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## Biblefundyfun

> Because of how ironic in a pot-kettle way it is for someone who doesn't know the bible to tell me I don't know the bible.


Oh I see. Get ya now. Well if you aren't RC please advise what you are? And good luck with your surgery. I mean that. Life is hard in spite oh what we cling to in all manner of religious faith. I like what Plato said " Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"  I only learned of this plato quote a few days ago and it has impacted me as much as any scripture ever has. I'm trying to live this way from now on because  I have found it way too easy to be unkind as I battle through this life.

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## Biblefundyfun

> I'm not never have been Roman Catholic. Go home-you're drunk.


I am home and I'm not drunk.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Oh I see. Get ya now. *Well if you aren't RC please advise what you are?* And good luck with your surgery. I mean that. Life is hard in spite oh what we cling to in all manner of religious faith. I like what Plato said " Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"  I only learned of this plato quote a few days ago and it has impacted me as much as any scripture ever has. I'm trying to live this way from now on because  I have found it way too easy to be unkind as I battle through this life.


Eastern Orthodox. This entire thread is about my journey to Orthodoxy and everything related. You ought to try actually reading it!  ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

> I am home and I'm not drunk.


It's just a snarky meme, bro. No worries.  




> *About* *“Go Home, You Are Drunk”* is an expression used to  point out someone else’s failure or misplaced objects, similar to other  well-known dismissive statements like You’re Doing It Wrong and Buzzkilling. The phrase is typically featured in image macros in which the subject is performing a task incorrectly or found in an out-of-place position.
> *Origin* Prior to its appearance in image macros, the phrase has been  colloquially used to advise someone against over-drinking or scold him  or her for losing self-control, comprable to another English idiom  “let’s call it a day.” The earliest known instance of an image featuring  the snowclone “Go home X, you’re drunk” was posted to the Internet  humor site Natuba[1] on October 6th, 2008, which included a photograph of graffiti on a bathroom wall (shown below).
> 
> 
> 
> *Spread* On October 24th, 2010, a similar joke was used in an image macro posted to the “Historic LOLs” Cheezburger[8]  page, which featured a painting of a robed man yelling the phrase “And I  banged your mother!” accompanied by an embarassed-looking man saying  “You’re drunk dad, go home” (shown below).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/go-home-you-are-drunk

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## Biblefundyfun

> It's just a snarky meme, bro. No worries.  
> 
> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/go-home-you-are-drunk


Dont we have the princess of dorkness aka Richard Dawkins to thank for the meme term? I look forward one day to reading of your journey from Eastern Orthodoxy ( what ever that is) to Christ. God bless.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Dont we have the princess of dorkness aka  Richard Dawkins to thank for the meme term? I look forward one day to  reading of your journey from Eastern Orthodoxy ( what ever that is) to  Christ. God bless.


Eastern Orthodoxy _is_ my journey toward Christ.  Those of us  who are EO spend our liturgical lives(and the rest of our lives as best  as possible) immersed in the gospel and holy tradition. "Orthodoxy"  literally means "the true way".  

IDK who originally coined the 'go home you're drunk' meme, but the link I gave has a history for you.

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## Biblefundyfun

> Eastern Orthodoxy _is_ my journey toward Christ.  Those of us  who are EO spend our liturgical lives(and the rest of our lives as best  as possible) immersed in the gospel and holy tradition. "Orthodoxy"  literally means "the true way".  
> 
> IDK who originally coined the 'go home you're drunk' meme, but the link I gave has a history for you.


 I did a form of martial arts when I was younger and dumber that was called the true way as well. What do you mean by "liturgical life" Christ is the way, the New Testament church where called followers of the way. Act 22.4 

What is the gospel of holy tradition? You do realise all the apostles or most of them where beaten stoned, boiled and nailed to crosses until death don't you,  as where approx another one hundred million after them, mostly by Rome. Do you plan on following that tradition too?

----------


## Biblefundyfun

> Eastern Orthodoxy _is_ my journey toward Christ.  Those of us  who are EO spend our liturgical lives(and the rest of our lives as best  as possible) immersed in the gospel and holy tradition. "Orthodoxy"  literally means "the true way".  
> 
> IDK who originally coined the 'go home you're drunk' meme, but the link I gave has a history for you.


And have you sold everything and given it to the church, as was the tradition upon fear of death? If not stop deluding yourself.

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## erowe1

> Yeah, my point was that there was a Church at that time preserving the Gospel by oral tradition.


At what time? The Old Testament times?

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## erowe1

> Listen here Heavenlyboy, if your truly are born again, you wouldn't spend another second in the Roman Catholic Church.


There you go again? What is it with this assumption that people are Roman Catholic?

----------


## fisharmor

> That sounds like all the work of the church is being done by some professional subset of it, rather than everyone. This is the opposite of the model the apostles taught the churches they established, where every member of the body has spiritual gifts giving them a role to play in the edification of the rest of the body (such as in 1 Corinthians 12-14). Members weren't just supposed to go to the assembly and sit there and be fed by someone else. They were all to feed and build up one another according to whatever their gifts were.


It is the EXACT model established in Acts 6.
But I thought I was pretty clear that I was speaking in the context of learning the faith.




> You feel that this other approach pays off 100-fold for you. But you should also ask yourself what you're doing to edify the rest of the body, not just what some subset of them are doing to edify you.


I am not teaching theology to the rest of the body.  I thought I was pretty clear about that being the context of my post.
The reason I am not teaching theology to the rest of the body is because I have absolutely no business teaching theology to the rest of the body.

Reading a confession and one or two 300 page books might be enough to be called an expert in the circles I previously ran in, but I'm happy to say it's just not the case in my present outfit.  It requires a bit more effort.

I'm not saying I'm incapable of putting forth the effort, going to seminary, getting a doctorate in theology, and teaching those classes.  And I'm not saying my priest is incapable of planting trees in the church yard, cooking meals for the bereaved, or serving as warden.  I am going to state openly that he's incapable of singing.

So there are four things I'm doing (at least) that I am ONLY able to do because I'm not forced into doing the priests job for him.  Enough other people actually care about that job getting done that it remains the job of the guy whose job it is.

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## erowe1

> It is the EXACT model established in Acts 6.
> But I thought I was pretty clear that I was speaking in the context of learning the faith.


Where do you see this in Acts 6?

I was also speaking in the context of learning the faith.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I did a form of martial arts when I was younger and dumber that was called the true way as well. What do you mean by "liturgical life" Christ is the way, the New Testament church where called followers of the way. Act 22.4 
> 
> What is the gospel of holy tradition? You do realise all the apostles or most of them where beaten stoned, boiled and nailed to crosses until death don't you,  as where approx another one hundred million after them, mostly by Rome. Do you plan on following that tradition too?


Read this:


and this:

I haven't read this one, but it uses the KJV instead of NKJV, which the OSB uses, if you prefer that:



 I'll never have time to write all that you want to know out. Also talk to a priest at your local parish.

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty ordinary day. Epistle Phillippians 2:5-11 gospel Luke 10:38-42; 11:27-28  Transfer of the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos. Homily focused on being selfless and focusing on helping others in the manner of Christ in today's readings. I'll upload a recording ASAP.  My godmommy got me a get well present.  <3

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## TER

*Mystery or Memorial? Sacrament or Symbol?*

SEPTEMBER 2, 2016 
BY FR. JOHN A. PECK
LINK(the formatting is much better at link)


What is the Lords Supper? What is the Eucharist? Was it always understood as a Sacrament? Throughout the history of Christianity, the overwhelming majority of Christians have consistently believed that Jesus Christ, in a mystery, imparts His Body and Blood to His people though the vehicle of the Lords Supper. Bypassing all the Biblical references, here is a small, non-exhaustive sampling of what theyve had to say in every generation. If youre going to read any of them, please read them all.

Ignatius of Antioch AD 35-107

Mark ye those who hold strange doctrines touch the grace of Jesus which came to us, how they are contrary to the mind of God They abstain from Eucharist and prayer, because they allow not that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up.

Assemble yoruselves together in common breaking the bread, which the medicine of immortality and the antidote that we should not die but live forever in Jesus Christ.

Ignatius to the Smyrnaens, 6.2; Ignatius to teh Ephesians 20.2


Justin Martyr  AD 100-165

We do not receive these as common bread or common drink. But juest as our Savior Jesus Christ was made flesh through the Word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food which has been Eucharized by the word of prayer from Him is the flesh and blood of the Incarnate Jesus.

First Apology 66.2


Irenaeus of Lyons   AD 130-200

For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity.:

When, therefore, the mixed cup and baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the Body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life  flesh is nourished by the Body and Blood of the Lord, and  is in fact, a member of Him?

Against Heresies 4.18; 5.2,3


Cyprian of Carthage   AD 200-258

We may not arouse and exhort those to battle unarmed and naked, but may fortify them with the protection of Christs Body and Blood. The Eucharist is designate for this very purpose, that it may be a safeguard to those who receive it.

Epistle 54


Athanasius of Alexandria  AD 296-373

You will see the Levites (deacons) bringing loaves and a cup of win, and placing them on the Table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But when the great and wondrous prayers have been recited, then the bread becomes the Body, and the cup becomes the Blood of Jesus Christ When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and cup, and it becomes His Body.

Sermon to the Baptized, quoted in Early Christian Doctrine by J.N.D. Kelley


 Hilary of Poitiers  AD 315-367

He Himself declares: For My Flesh is real food, and My Blood is real drink. He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood abides in Me and I in him.  It is no longer permitted us to raise doubts about the nature of the Body and the Blood, for, according to the statement of the Lord Himself, as well as our faith, this is indeed Flesh and Blood. And these things that we receive bring it about that we are in Christ and Christ in us How deeply we are in Him through the sacrament fo the Flesh and Blood.

The Trinity 8.14


 Cyril of Jerusalem AD 315-386

Since then He Himself declared and said of the Bread, this is my Body, who shall dare to doubt any longer? And since He Himself affirmed and said, this is My Blood, who shall ever hesitate, saying that it is not His Blood? He once, in Cana of Galilee turned water into wine, akin to blood, and is it incredible that He should have turned wine into Blood?

Consider therefore the bread and wine not as bare elements, for they are, according to the Lords declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ; for even though sense suggest this to you, yetlet faith establish you. Judge not the matter from the taste, but from faith be fully assured without misgiving, that the Body and Blood of Christ have been granted to you.

Catechetical Lectures XXII 1.2; XXII 6


 Basil the Great  AD 330-379

It is beneficial and good to communicate every day, to partake of the Holy Body and Blood of Christ, for He distinctly says, He that eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood h as eternal life.

Epistle 93 ad Caesariam


Gregory of Nyssa    AD 335-395

Rightly then do we believe that now also the bread which is consecrated by the Word of God is changed into the Body of God the Word by dispensation of His grace, He disseminates Himself in every believer through that Flesh, whose substance comes from bread and wine, blending Himself with the bodies of the believers, to secure that, by this union with the immortal, man, too, may be a sharer in incorruption. He gives these gifts by virtue of the benediction through which is trans-elements the natural quality of these visibile signs to that immortal thing.

The Great Catechism XXXVII


Ambrose of Milan   AD 339-397

We, as often as we receive the Sacramental Elements, which by the mysterious efficacy of holy prayer are transformed into the Flesh and Blood, do show the Lords death.

The Faith, 4.124


John Chrysostom    AD 345-407

This which is in the cup is that which flowed from His side, and of that we do we partake What is the bread? The Body of Christ.

Homily 24 on First Corinthians; 1,2


Augustine of Hippo    AD 354-430

That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the Word of God, is the Body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the Word of God, is the Blood of Christ. Through that bread and wine the Lord Christ willed to commend His Body and Blood, which He poured out for us unto the forgiveness of sins.

What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what  your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the Body of Christ, and the chalice is the Blood of Christ How is the bread His Body? And the chalice, or what is in the chalice, how is it His Blood? Those elements, brethren, are called Sacraments, because in them one thing is seen, but anoterh is understood. What is seen is the corporeal species; but what is understood is the spiritual fruit.

Sermon 227; Sermon 272


Cyril of Alexandria    AD 375-444

He states demonstratively: This is My Body and This is my Blood, lest you might suppose the things that are seen are a figure. Rather, by some secret of the all-powerful God thethings seen are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ, truly offered ina sacrifice in whic we, as particpants, receive the life-giving and sanctifying power of Christ.

Commentary on Matthew 26,27


Leo  the Great    AD 400-461

When the Lord says: Unless you shall have eaten the Flesh of the Son of Man and shall have drunk His Blood, you shall not have life in you, you ought to so communicate at the Sacred Table that  you have no doubt whatsoever of the truth of the Body and Blood of Christ. For that which is taken in the mouth si what is believed in faith; and in vain do those respond, Amen who argue against that which is received.

Sermon 91:3


Gelasius I of Rome    d. AD 496

The substance or nature of the bread and wine does not cease to exist, although the elements, the Holy Spirit, perfecting them, pass over into a divine substance, as was the case with Christ Himself. And certainly the image and likeness are honored in the observance of the Mysteries.

Concerning the Two Natures of Christ, Thiel. Ep. Pontiff, p. 541 f.


 John of Damascus      AD 675-749

 not that the Body which was taken up comes back down from heaven, but that the bread itself and the wine are made over into the Body and Blood of God. If you inquire into the way in which this happens, let it suffice for you to hear that it is through the Holy Spirit  Mmore than this we do not know, except that the Word of God is true and effective and all-powerful; but the manner is inscrutable the Bread and the Wine are not a type of the Body and Blood of Christ  perish the thought!  but the deified Body itself of the Lord.

The Source of Knowledge, 3,4,13


Paschasius Radbertus      AD 790-865

Let no man be moved from this Body and Blood of Christ which in a mystery are true Flesh and Blood since the Creator so willed it Because the sacrament is mystical, we cannot deny that it is a figure, but if it is a figure, we must inquire how it can be truth. For every figure is a figure of another thing and is always referred to that other thing as being the real thing of which it is a figure.

The Body and Blood of the Lord I.2; IV.1


Ratramnus of Corbie    d, AD 868

If, indeed, it is bread in appearance, in the sacrament it is the true Body of Christ, even as the Lord Jesus proclaims, This is my Body, they are figures according to he visible form; but according to the invisible substances, i.d. the power of the Divine Word, the true Body and Blood of Christ truly exist.

Letters to Charles the Bald, 57;49


Thomas Aquinas      AD 1225-1274

Two things may be considered in the sacrament of the Eucharist. One is the fact that it is a sacrament, and in this respect it is like the other effects of sanctifying grace. The other is that Christs Body is miraculously contained therein, and thus, it is included under Gods ominpotence, like all other miracles which are ascribed to Gods almighty power.

Summa Theologica, Section XV, Question 1, article 9, reply to objection 6


John Wycliffe       AD 1330-1384

That change does not destroy the nature of bread, nor alter the nature of the Body but it effects the presence of the Body of Christ and destroys thte preeminence of the bread, so that the whole attention of the worshipper is concentrated upon the Body of Christ Not that the bread has been destroyed, but that it signifies the Body of the Lord there present in the Sacrament.

The Eucharist, p. 100,101


John Huss      AD  1375-1415

The humble priest does not say that he is the creator of Christ, but that the Lord Christ by His power and Word, through him, causes that which is bread to be His Body; not that at that time it began to be His, but that there on the altar begins to be sacramentally in the form of bread what was previously was not there and therein.

John Huss, by David Schaff, 1915


Martin Luther     AD 1483-1543

What is the Sacrament of the Altar? It is the true Body and Blood of Christ, under the bread and wine, given unto us Chrisitans to eat and to drink, as it was instituted by Christ Himself What is the benefit of such eating and drinking? It is pointed out in these words: Given and shed for you for the remission of sins.

Small Catechism Section VI


John Calvin     AD 1509-1564

It is a spiritual mystery which cannot be seen by the eye, nor be comprehended by human understanding. Therefore,  it is represented for us by means of visible signs, according to the need of our weaknesses. Nevertheless, it is not a naked figure, but one joined to its truth and substance. With good reason, then, the bread is called Body, because it not only represents it, but also presents it.

Short Treatise on the Lords Supper


John Wesley     AD  1703-1791

All who desire an increase of the grace of God are to wait for it in partaking of the Lords Supper: for this also is a direction He Himself has given is not the eating of the bread, and the drinking of that cup, the outward, visible means, whereby God conveys into our souls all that spiritual grace, that righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost which were purchased by the Body of Christ, once broken and the Blood of Christ once shed for us? Let all, therefore, who truly desire the grace of God, eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

Sermon 16, The Means of Grace, points 11,12


Andrew Murray  AD 1828-1917

In the Supper, Christ would take possession of the whole man  body and soul  to renew and sanctify it by the power of His holy Body and Blood. even His Body is communicated by the Holy Spirit. Even our body is fed with His holy Body and renewed by the working of the Holy Spirit He that eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood, let him abide in Me, and I in him.

The New Life, p. 205, 2-7


F.F. Bruce    20th Century

In the Biblical sense, remembrance is more than a mental exercise; it involves a realization of what is remembered. At the Passover feast the participants are one with their ancestors of the Exodus; at the Eucharist, Christians experience the Real Presence of their Lord.

 1st and 2nd Corinthians, Oliphants, 1971; p. 111


R.C.H. Lenski     20th Century

My Body means exactly what the words say: in truth and reality My Body We refuse to answer the question regarding the how because the Lord withholds the answer. We ould probably not have understood the real answer if it had ben given because of the giving of His Body in the Sacrament is a Divine act of omnipotence and grace which is beyond mortal comprehension. The Lord declares the fact: This is My Body, and we take Him at His word.

The Interpretation of St. Pauls 1st and 2nd Epistles to the Corinthians, Augsburg, 1963


G.M.A. Jansen    20th Century

This is the mystery: The Body and blood of Christ are there and He offers them to us a food and drink, because He said so. If you believe in the Mystery of the Incarnation and in that of hte Redemption, you can also believe in the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist, in the Real Presence.

The Sacramental We, Bruce Publishing, co. 1968, p. 52



*And finally one who didnt.*

Influenced by the rationalistic spirit of the Renaissance and reacting to abuses in the Roman Church, a small segment of Reformation churchmen, centered around Ulrich Zwingli, began to view the Lords Supper as an empty symbol, a Real Absence of Christ, instead of a vehicle of grace.


Ulrich Zwingli  AD 1484-1531

If He has gone away, if He has left this world, if He is no longer with us, then either the Creed is unfaithful to the words of Christ, which is impossible, or else the Body and Blood of Christ cannot be present in the Sacrament. The flesh may fume but the words of Christ stand firm. He sits at the right hand of the Father, He has left the world, He is no longer present with us. And if these words are true, it is impossible to maintain that His Flesh and Blood are present in the Sacrament.

The Fathers held exactly the same view as we do. And they use exactly the same speech as we do, for they call the bread and wine the Body and Blood of Christ, although what they really mean is that they are the representation and memorial of His Body and Blood

Zwingli and Bullinger, The Westminster Press, p. 214-234

And just as I have no doubt that this God created heaven and earth, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, so I know that it is not possible that the Body of Christ is in the Sacrament.

Huldrych Zwingli, G.R. Potter, Edward Arnold Pub. 1978; p. 100

 Much of modern American Evangelicalism has taken its view of the Lords Supper from the Gnostic Zwinglian tradition, rather than from the mainstream of historic Incarnational Christianity. Althought a multitude of examples could be quoted, Zwingli has stated the case most succinctly, and substantially speaks for them all.

The Orthodox Church, as the historic Church of Christ, has maintained the Lords command, and the Apostolic teaching, often at great cost, for the last 2,000+ years

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady-Epistle I Corinthians 9:2-12 Gospel Matthew 18:23-35

Fr Chris' homily focused on forgiveness. Some notes-*"forgiveness" appears 141 times in the Bible; 71 in OT/70 in the NT. ; Not forgiving is something that keeps us from God; being forgiving requires practice (I'll have to try this  yet another character builder to work on)

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## TER

*Prefigurations of the Sacrament of the Divine Eucharist in the Old Testament  1*


The sacrament of the Divine Eucharist was prefigured by a variety of events in the era of the Old Testament. These events were investigated from as early as the time when the New Testament was being written. They were interpreted and analyzed by the writers of the New Testament, and thereafter by the Fathers of the Church, not only because theyre noteworthy in themselves, but also because they were harbingers of the Truth. The advent of Christ didnt mean a commentary on the old, nor a transfer from the relative to the relative, but a progression from the old (enslavement) to the new (liberty. His presence makes all things new, and the very fact of His incarnation is he only new thing under the sun.


            1. The first historical event through which the Divine Eucharist is prefigured is the offering of bread on the part of Melchizedek. In his letter to the Hebrews, the Apostle Paul interprets this and says that Christ became a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek[1], who was without father, or mother, without genealogy, with neither beginning of days or end of life. Melchizedek is a model of the Son of God[2]. Along the same lines as Saint Paul, Clement the Alexandrian considered the oil and wine offered to Abraham by Melchizedek to be a prefiguration of Jesus as the Eucharistic Bread and Wine[3]. Melchizedek, the king of Salem, the priest of God the Most High, who gave the food of the oil and wine as a model of the Eucharist.  Kyprianos of Carthage also considered Melchizedek to be a model of Christ, and his offering a type of that of Christ: In the priest Melchizedek, we see the mystery of the sacrifice of the Lord prefigured[4].

In line with this tradition, Saint John Chrysostom writes of Melchizedek: Moved by the spirit of prophecy, when he had grasped the offering that would be given in the future for the Gentiles, he praised God with wine and oil, imitating the Christ Who was to come[5]. So the offering of bread and wine on the part of Melchizedek was no accident. It was an action inspired by the spirit, which heralded the sacrifice that would be offered on the part of the whole world. Melchizedek received in a mystery the grace of the unique sacrifice, of the slaughtered lamb from the beginning of the world[6]. In the Holy Spirit, he was able to understand an event that had not yet occurred in time and many centuries before the advent of Christ, Who imitated his offering. Chrysostom writes that Divine Scripture by revelation and in advance manifests that which is to occur in the future[7].

Comparing the Jewish sacrifices and the offering of Melchizedek, Efsevios (Eusebius) of Caesarea tells us that at three points the latter was superior to the former: a) it was offered by a priest who didnt belong to the family of Levi: because he was not chosen by people, nor was he revealed by a manufactured unction, not did he belong to the tribe of priests, nor did he serve God in the Highest with sacrifices and libations; b) Melchizedeks offering took place outside the temple in Jerusalem:  nor did he make his offering in the temple in Jerusalem, and c) it was a bloodless sacrifice: Nowhere does it appear that he used material sacrifices[8].

            But if the sacrifices of the Jews differed from the offering of Melchizedek, how much more were they different from the offering of Christ. For in the Old Testament, because people were less accomplished spiritually, the blood they offered to the idols was accepted by Christ, in order to remove it from the idols, an act that was the result of indescribable affection. For here the ritual was subsumed into the more dread and magnificent sacrament, so that this sacrifice changed and He gave the command that they should offer Himself instead of  the slaughter of animals[9]. For  this, (the Jewish sacrifice, was made by hands, whereas that of Christ was not made by hands.

The former had blood, the blood of goats, whereas the latter had the blood of the Lord[10]. Because you do not have cherubim (in the Christian sacrifice), but the Lord of the Cherubim Himself, dwelling within you; and no jar, and manna or tablets of stone and the rod of Aaron, but the Lords own body and blood, and the spirit instead of the written commandments, and grace that surpasses human thought, and an indescribable gift[11].

[To Be Continued]


[1] Heb. 6,20; cf. also Ps.109, 4.

[2] Heb. 7, 3.

[3] Στρωματείς 4, 25.

[4] Epistle 63, 4.

[5] On Melchizedek.

[6] Rev. 13, 8.

[7] On the Nativity, Homily 35.

[8] Ευαγγελική απόδειξις, 5, 3.

[9] On I Cor. Homily 24, 2.

[10] On Heb. Homily 19.

[11] On Ps. 133.

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## TER

2. Besides, the person of the Patriarch Isaac, his birth and the offering of him as a sacrifice to God by his father Abraham have attracted the attention of many interpreters of the Holy Scriptures.

            Isaac truly was born through the promise of God. He was born of a mother who was sterile and a father who was well-stricken in years. According to Paul, this means that we, the faithful, are offspring through the promise of Isaac, precisely because Isaac was born from a sterile mother, just as the Church was sterile before the advent of Christ and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

            With reference to the sacrifice of Isaac, Saint John Chrysostom initially underlines the fact that Abraham walked with Isaac and two servants for three days, going to a high point, which prefigured Golgotha. When Abraham arrived at the place of the new and strange sacrifice, he went on with Isaac. Isaac undertook the task of bringing the wood for the sacrifice, in just the same way as Christ bore His cross on His shoulders to Golgotha. But the sacrifice of Isaac wasnt completed.  He did not sacrifice by him by his hand, but by his intention; he did not bury the knife into the neck of the child; he did not cut into his skin, but there was a bloodless sacrifice. Those who are baptized understand what I am saying. This is why the sacrifice was bloodless, because it was a model of that which would take place in the future. Do you see the foreshadowed image in the Old Testament? Do not refuse to believe the truth[12].

The intervention of God, which came at the critical moment, prevented the completion of the sacrifice of Isaac. The type couldnt be allowed to reach the heights of the Truth. Only on Golgotha would God not send an angel to prevent the sacrifice of His only-begotten Son. And as for Abraham, God was able to confirm, and did so, that he had not withheld his beloved son from Him. Saint Paul also says that, because of His overwhelming love for us, God the Father did not withhold His own Son.

The place of Isaac was taken by a ram which had been caught in a thicket by its horns. The ram caught in the thicket its horns is the Redeemer, hanging upon the horns of the Cross. In a thicket: wearing on His brow a crown of thorns. So when Abraham offered up Isaac then he saw the sheep with its horns caught and sacrificed it, prefiguring the saving Passion[13].

            The Epistle to the Hebrews also touches upon another aspect of the sacrifice or Isaac and the Eucharistic Sacrament, the Mystery of the Cross and the Resurrection. It tells us that Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Isaac even though Gods promise depended on the boy. Why did he do this? He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back[14]. The intervention of God transformed the mode of the Cross into that of the Resurrection of His Son. This is why the Lord says Abraham rejoiced at the thought that he would see His own days; he saw them and was glad.

Chrysostom asks how it was possible since he was born so many years earlier: Through the model, he replies, through the shadow. Exactly as the ram was offered in the stead of Isaac, so the rational sheep was offered on behalf of the whole world. Because the truth had to be prefigured in a shadowy form. Note well, my beloved, that all of this had to be prefigured in a nebulous manner. There was an only-begotten son them and an only-begotten Son now. Much loved and real then, beloved and real now. The former was offered as a sacrifice  and the latter was given by the Father to be sacrificed[15].

Hiermonk Grigorios, Η Λειτουργία της Ευχαριστίας του Θεού, pubd. in Modern Greek by the Holy Metropolis of Halkida, pp. 16-25.
[12] Encomium on Saint Efstathios

[13] On Fasting, 4

[14] Heb. 11, 19.

[15] On Gen. Homily 47.

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## TER

3. A phrase which can be found in the prophecy concerning the Messiah by the Patriarch Jacob provides St. John Chrysostom with the opportunity to speak of the sacrifice of Christ and the Divine Eucharist. He will wash his garment in wine, his robe in the blood of grapes. Chrysostom says: See how the whole of the mystery has been implied for us. The faithful understand the significance of the words: He will wash his garment in wine. I believe he calls the body the garment which He condescended to put on because of the mystery of divine dispensation. Then, so that you will learn precisely what he called wine, he goes on to say that he will cleanse his robe in the wine of the grape, which is red, like blood. See how, through the name of blood, His slaughter is implied for us, as well as the cross and the whole dispensation of the sacraments[16].


The children of the Patriarch Jacob heard this Messianic prophesy, but did not enjoy the reality about which he spoke. For him, the prophecy was an enigma. With the coming of the Messiah, the enigma was transformed into knowledge of life. Knowledge acquired by those who were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is they who cleanse their robe in the blood of grapes.

4. The Divine Eucharist is also like the sacrifice of the Prophet Elijah. Just as then, when, following the Prophets prayer, fire descended from heaven and devoured the sacrifice, in the same way now, the priest stands before the altar and brings down not fire, but the Holy Spirit. And he prays intensely, not for flame to come from heaven to consume that which is before him, but for divine grace to come upon the sacrifice and with it to kindle the souls of all[17].

5. Speaking of his call to the prophetic office, Isaiah, too, refers to a wonderful vision which preceded the call and which prepared him to receive it:

In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim  And one called to another and said: Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of Hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory! And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth and said: Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for (6, 1-7).

For the holy Fathers who wrote the Divine Liturgies, there was absolutely no doubt as regards the significance of the vision: the Prophet is describing for us the celestial and angelic worship. This ultramundane worship was unknown to people before the Lords coming to earth. Between heaven and earth there was a great chasm. But the incarnation of the Son and Word of God does away with the wall separating them. The chasm was transformed into a bridge which united the earth with the heavens. Angels came down to earth, accompanying the heavenly Lord, and the angelic hymnody, the hymn of victory,  was sung in the house of the glory of the Lord.

According to Chrysostom, this is why, when a bishop is celebrating, when he stands before the holy altar, offering the reasonable sacrifice, he does not simply call upon us to sing the hymn, but, having first referred to the Cherubim and recalled the Seraphim, urges all of us to raise the dread voice and, with the recollection of the angels, to tear our minds away from the earth, saying to each one of us: Youre singing with the Seraphim; stand beside them and open your wings with them and surround the royal throne[18]. That altar was a prefiguration and image of this altar; that material fire was a prefiguration of this spiritual fire. Then the Seraphim didnt dare touch with their hands, but used tongs, whereas you take it in your hand[19].

With the tongs, the angel picked up the coal, the type and image of the spiritual fire, Christ. And this coal cleansed the lips of the Prophet, to become the mouth of God. Believers who approach the Chalice of Life in joy and trembling receive the fire which cleanses their whole being, consumes the dross and inexpressibly cools them. Those who partake of the coal which is Christ at communion do not merely become the mouthpieces of God, but God-bearers and Christ-bearers.

6. Christs sacrifice is also the pure sacrifice mentioned by the Prophet Malachi: From the east to the west, my name has been glorified by all the nations and in every place incense is offered in my name and pure sacrifice. When did this happen?, asks Chrysostom. When was the pure sacrifice offered? You cant put a date on it, except after the coming of Christ[20]. Comparing the Divine Eucharist with the Jewish sacrifice, he says we can say that only the former is really pure. Because it was not made with smoke and the aromas of roasted meats, nor with blood and ransom, but is offered with the grace of the Holy Spirit[21].

7. All the above prefigurations- events and prophetic words- were harbingers of the Divine Eucharist. In each one, there are details that recall the Eucharistic offering: the bread and wine of Melchizedek, the sacrifice of Abraham of his only-begotten and beloved son, the altar, and the angelic worship of the prophetic vision, the coal. With these details, a picture can be formed of the holy anaphora. But the prototype of this image did not appear in the Old Testament. This is why the picture is simply a shadow of good things to come, the presence of which shadow in the long term will never be able to perfect those approaching it.

The purpose of the shadow was to announce the coming Truth. With the incarnation of the Word, the people dwelling in darkness beheld a great light. With His brilliant presence, Christ illumined the ends of the earth. The old became new; the corrupt, incorrupt; the mortal immortal. The presence of the Light of Life disperses the shadow of death. Now all things are filled with light. Everything is bathed in the light and in truth. Our long-awaited, foretasted and, in a variety of ways, prefigured salvation has become a historical and real event.

Hiermonk Grigorios, Η Λειτουργία της Ευχαριστίας του Θεού, pubd. in Modern Greek by the Holy Metropolis of Halkida, pp. 16-25.
[16] On Genesis, homily.

[17] On the Priesthood, Discourse III.

[18] On the Seraphim, 6,3

[19] Ibid.

[20] Discourse against the Jews 5,12.

[21] Ibid.

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty ordinary but very lovely Liturgy today.  

14th Sunday after Pentacost and first Sunday of Luke  Righteous mother Euphrosyne, Venerable Martyr Paphnoutios of Egypt and those slain with him; repose of Venerable Sergios of Radnezh; translation of the relics of Herman, archbishop of Kazan.  


 Epistle Corinthians 1:21-24 Gospel Luke 5:1-11


 Some notes from Fr Chris' homily...


 -the Church is the Kingdom Of God-His kingdom is everywhere, but especially manifest in His Church.


 -The Church existed before time; like all things from God, it is eternal


 -Why come to church? Because the mysteries of God and his word are manifest in the Kingdom


 -Worldly things become less valuable when chased; the kingdom is eternally priceless
 -endeavour to be great, not mediocre or good.


 Briefly saw my godmother at coffee hour.

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## heavenlyboy34

stuff from 10/2

Mideast festival weekend.  Good food and fun for all.


 Epistle-2 Corinthians 4:6-15 gospel-Luke 6:31-36


 15th Sunday after Pentecost and Second Sunday of Luke
 Heiromartyr Cyprian the confessor Virgin-martyr Justina; Theophilos the Confessor, New-martyr George at Karatzasou, Andrew of Constantinople, fool for Christ David and Constantine, prince-martyrs of Georgia; Anna, princess of Kashin


 A few homily notes;
 Gospel commands freely giving instead of expecting returns *theology of personhood-implies relationships-purposely selfless per the nature of Orthodoxy(in contrast to Western individualism)

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## heavenlyboy34

Nativity season is upon us.  Pretty slow day overall. Epistle- Ephesians 2:4-10 Gospel Luke 18:18-27  Fr Mansour took over for Fr. Chris toady.

Some homily notes...
*works can't save, though works are important for God's glory *God is not against us or riches generally *Riches can be used to serve God, but that is all *have faith in God, not material things

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## heavenlyboy34

Pretty ordinary day. Feeling kind of stiff due to being out late performing live and partying.  

Some homily notes..
*Family in Christ transcends ethnicity, gender, etc
*the EOC is where we "belong", not where we "go" to
*Antioch was the most ethnically diverse place in the world when the Church was born
Epistle-Galatians 3:23-4:5 Gospel Luke 13:10-17

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## heavenlyboy34

Nativity season is Nativity.   Fr. Chris' homily emphasizes the importance of purposeful choice-making and organizing priorities. Gospel Luke 14:16-24 Epistle Colossians 3:4-11

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## Sola_Fide

> Nativity season is Nativity.   Fr. Chris' homily emphasizes the importance of purposeful choice-making and organizing priorities. Gospel Luke 14:16-24 Epistle Colossians 3:4-11


Sounds boring as hell.

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## RJB

What?  You don't care for the Gospel of Luke nor the Epistle?

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## Sola_Fide

> What?  You don't care for the Gospel of Luke nor the Epistle?


Not if the preaching is simply moralisms about what man has to do to be saved.  Any Christian holds that in contempt, because he sees it as being slavery under the law.  Only the true gospel, the one where Christ ALONE does the work required on man's behalf, is exciting and filled with hope.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Sounds boring as hell.


Christians don't go to Liturgy to be entertained. We go to be nourished by the Gospel and the Eucharist and to take part in Church Life.  ~hugs~ Entertainment is a worldly affair.

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## RJB

> Not if the preaching is simply moralisms about what man has to do to be saved.  Any Christian holds that in contempt, because he sees it as being slavery under the law.  Only the true gospel, the one where Christ ALONE does the work required on man's behalf, is exciting and filled with hope.


For all the time you've been here, Sola, somehow, you are still the most ignorant person on the Orthodox faith I have ever met.

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## Sola_Fide

> Christians don't go to Liturgy to be entertained. We go to be nourished by the Gospel and the Eucharist and to take part in Church Life.  ~hugs~ Entertainment is a worldly affair.


Whats their "gospel"?  Do good works so that you'll be saved?  That is not the gospel.

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## euphemia

> Nativity season is Nativity.   Fr. Chris' homily emphasizes the importance of purposeful choice-making and organizing priorities. Gospel Luke 14:16-24 Epistle Colossians 3:4-11


I think our calendar is about two weeks ahead of you.  One of the things we are doing is offering compline on FB live.  It's an evening meditation and prayer from the Book of Common Prayer.  It has been really lovely to just take a deep breath and focus on the Lord.  We will continue to do this for the whole of Advent.

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## euphemia

Who else uses the Book of Common Prayer?

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## heavenlyboy34

> I think our calendar is about two weeks ahead of you.  One of the things we are doing is offering compline on FB live.  It's an evening meditation and prayer from the Book of Common Prayer.  It has been really lovely to just take a deep breath and focus on the Lord.  We will continue to do this for the whole of Advent.


Yeah, that book is not used by any Orthodox people, AFAIK. (It's Episcopalian, as I understand it) There are a number of prayers for events and situations in the Orthodox prayer book. There are also a number of prayers by various saints for a number of occasions.  For example, this prayer after communion by St Basil The Great: 


> *We give Thee thanks, O Lord our God, for the Communion of Thy holy,  pure, deathless and heavenly Mysteries, which thou hast given for the  good, the hallowing, and the healing of our souls and bodies. Do Thou, O  Sovereign of the world, cause this Communion in the Holy Body and blood  of Thy Christ to nourish us in unashamed faith, sincere charity, ripe  wisdom, health of soul and body, separation from all ills, observance of  Thy Law, and justification before His awful Judgment Seat. O Christ our  God, the Mystery of Thy Providence has been accomplished according to  our ability. We have been reminded of Thy Death and we have seen a  figure of Thy Resurrection; we have been filled with Thine Infinite  Life, and we have tasted Thine inexhaustible joy; and we pray Thee to  make us worthy of these things in the life to come, through the grace of  Thine Eternal Father and of Thy holy, good, and life-giving Spirit, now  and forever, eternally: amen.*

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## heavenlyboy34

> Whats their "gospel"?  Do good works so that you'll be saved?  That is not the gospel.


You think you know it all-or at least enough to make a judgement-you should know already and be able to list copious citations. If not, admit you're wrong and go on your way. ~hugs~

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## TER

I don't recognize that prayer, HB.  It's nice nonetheless!

This is the prayer from the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil after communion:

Lord Christ our God, King of the ages and Creator of all, I thank Thee for all the blessings Thou hast granted me and for the communion of Thy pure and life-giving Mysteries. I pray Thee, therefore, gracious Lord and Lover of mankind, guard me under Thy protection and within the shadow of Thy wings; and grant me with a clear conscience till my last breath worthily to partake of Thy sacred Gifts for forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. For Thou art the Bread of Life, the Source of Holiness, the Giver of all that is good, and to Thee we send up glory, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

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## TER

I think the prayer you listed above HB is from the Latin Rite, but I am not certain.

The prayer of St. Basil in the Divine Liturgy which he wrote and which is used in the Orthodox Church at times (for example, on Christmas!) is:

Priest (in a low voice): We thank You, Lord, our God, for the communion of Your holy, most pure, immortal, and heavenly Mysteries which You have granted us for the benefit, sanctification, and healing of our souls and bodies. Grant, Master of all, that the communion of the holy Body and Blood of Your Christ may become for us faith unashamed, love unfeigned, fulness of wisdom, healing of soul and body, repelling of every hostile adversary, observance of Your commandments, and an acceptable defense at the dread judgment seat of Your Christ.

Priest: For You are our sanctification and to You we give glory, to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.

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## heavenlyboy34

> I don't recognize that prayer, HB.  It's nice nonetheless!
> 
> This is the prayer from the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil after communion:
> 
> Lord Christ our God, King of the ages and Creator of all, I thank Thee for all the blessings Thou hast granted me and for the communion of Thy pure and life-giving Mysteries. I pray Thee, therefore, gracious Lord and Lover of mankind, guard me under Thy protection and within the shadow of Thy wings; and grant me with a clear conscience till my last breath worthily to partake of Thy sacred Gifts for forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. For Thou art the Bread of Life, the Source of Holiness, the Giver of all that is good, and to Thee we send up glory, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.


Thanks for the corrections, brother!  I have much to learn, not being cradle and all. I have a humble spirit, though.

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## heavenlyboy34

I've got audio of the homily this week, which I made from the choir loft.  @TER would like it, I reckon.

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## TER

> Thanks for the corrections, brother!  I have much to learn, not being cradle and all. I have a humble spirit, though.


No worries!  I am humbled every day!  

Even now, I feel I have barely scratched the surface of the Orthodox faith.  Every day we can learn something profound if we only look for it.

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## euphemia

> Yeah, that book is not used by any Orthodox people, AFAIK. (It's Episcopalian, as I understand it) There are a number of prayers for events and situations in the Orthodox prayer book. There are also a number of prayers by various saints for a number of occasions.  For example, this prayer after communion by St Basil The Great:


I must be the outlier . I wan't sure if other Anglicans were following this thread or not.  I think a lot of evangelicals and low church are returning to a traditional liturgy.  I was very surprised.  There is life in the liturgy.

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## TER

The Christian faith is a never ending fountain of wonder and knowledge.

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## TER

> I must be the outlier . I wan't sure if other Anglicans were following this thread or not.  I think a lot of evangelicals and low church are returning to a traditional liturgy.  I was very surprised.  There is life in the liturgy.


It most certainly is encouraging to hear that Christians are returning to their traditions of liturgical worship.   I hope and pray that continues.

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## euphemia

> It most certainly is encouraging to hear that Christians are returning to their traditions of liturgical worship.   I hope and pray that continues.


I agree.  We moved closer to the front of the church because when it comes time for Eucharist, I want to run to the front.  Through all the liturgy I realize how much I need the representation of the body and blood of Christ in my life.

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## TER

> I agree.  We moved closer to the front of the church because when it comes time for Eucharist, I want to run to the front.  Through all the liturgy I realize how much I need the representation of the body and blood of Christ in my life.


And not just a representation, but according to Christ, His very life-giving Body and Blood.

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## heavenlyboy34

> And not just a representation, but according to Christ, His very life-giving Body and Blood.


THIS!!!^^^

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## heavenlyboy34

Christmas liturgy in the evening.  Epistle-Glatians 4:4-7 Gospel Matthew 2:1-12

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## heavenlyboy34

Gospel Luke 2:20-21, 40-52. Epistle Colossians 2:8-12

Feasts of circumcision of Christ and of St Basil the Great
 Nice day today, though tired...the celebrations outside kept me up late. Fr Monsour did the homily. *Baptism as the circumcision of the spirit/heart which takes the place of the Jewish physical circumcision. *Circumcision was the first insult to Christ's holiness in Church tradition.

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## heavenlyboy34

Theophany toady  Really beautiful occasion, and I'm glad I finally had a chance to go this year.  Went earlier to receive a healing blessing for a broken bone. Gospel Matthew 3:13-17 Epistle Titus 2:11-14; 3:13-17

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## TER

Excellent article for those interested....


The Eucharist: Its Meaning and Place in Our Salvation


The earliest title of the main Sunday service of the Christian Church is “the Eucharist”, from the Greek word eucharisteo, meaning, “to give thanks.” As early as about the middle of the second century, Justin the Philosopher (later known as “Justin Martyr”) wrote that the bread and wine which the Christians received sacramentally was “called among us ‘the Eucharist’, of which no one is allowed to partake but the ones who believe that the things which we teach are true” (Apology, chapter 66). The ritual service would also later be called “the Divine Liturgy,” and “the Mass.”

The Lord Jesus commanded His disciples to perform this ritual on the night on which He was betrayed. Before noon the next day, He would be crucified and hanging on a Roman cross, offering Himself as a voluntary sacrifice to take away the sins of the world, and by supper-time, He would be dead. He therefore instituted this ritual as the way of insuring that His sacrifice would be powerfully present and effective among His disciples. By doing so, He transformed what was a simple judicial execution into an enduring sacrifice. The recurring ritual of the Eucharist was the means whereby His disciples could benefit from that sacrifice.

The Lord instituted the Eucharist during His final meal with them. It seems clear enough that the meal was a Passover meal: Luke reports that prior to this, Christ said to His disciples, “When you have entered the city [of Jerusalem], a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him into the house that he enters. And you shall say to the owner of house, ‘The Teacher says to you, Where is the guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?’ And he will show you a large, furnished, upper room; prepare it there” (Luke 22:10-12). The disciples obeyed the Lord, and found the pre-arranged upper room. As Luke further reports, there “they prepared the Passover” (Luke 22:13). At that meal, Christ said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer” (Luke 22:15).
Some have suggested that this chronology is difficult to square with the information in John’s Gospel, but Luke’s account seems clear enough.

At the beginning of this meal, the Lord took bread and broke it. This was not unusual; every meal began with the breaking of bread. But what happened next was unusual—as He gave them the bread, He said, “Take it; this is My Body.” The apostles’ reaction is not recorded, but one can imagine their alarm. The meal then continued as usual, with everyone eating bitter herbs and the Passover Lamb and talking as people do at table. At the conclusion of the meal, a final cup of wine was blessed and drunk. Again, this was not unusual; every meal would be accompanied by wine, and every Passover meal concluded with this third cup. But as Christ gave them the wine, He said, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is shed on behalf of many.” As St. Paul recounted it to the Corinthians (in a letter which predated the writing of the Gospels), Christ added that they should do this “for My memorial” (sometimes translated “in remembrance of Me”; the Greek is eis ten emen anamnesin). It is doubtful that the apostles understood what our Lord was talking about, for they had refused to believe that He was about to die. But His words sounded ominous enough. It was only later that they would understand.

The surprising thing, given that the Passover meal consisted of wine and the Passover Lamb, is that Jesus chose bread to represent His body, and not the Passover lamb. After all, He had spoken once of His flesh and blood being food and drink (John 6:54), so what could be more natural than the flesh of the Passover lamb representing His own Flesh? Why choose bread for the ritual rather than the lamb?

The Lord chose to use bread and wine for this ritual rather than lamb and wine because He did not model the recurring sacramental meal on the Passover meal (which was held only once a year), but on all the meals which He had taken with His disciples. Lamb was not eaten at every supper, but bread was, as was wine, and the Eucharist was not to be held only once a year, but as often as the disciples would gather together. Thus the Lord chose bread and wine, which they would eat at every meal.

And they did gather together regularly for a meal, for following Christ was not like holding to a philosophy, but joining a family; they gathered regularly to eat because that is what families do. And these meals culminated in the Eucharist.

Christ met with His disciples on Sundays after His Resurrection, and by this He was telling them that the first day of the week was the day when they should gather together. Accordingly, though the apostles would continue as good Jews to worship with their fellow Jews in the synagogues on the Sabbath, they would also meet with their fellow Christians on the next day. This day they soon began to call “the Lord’s day,” because it was on this first day of the week that the risen Lord manifested Himself to them when they gathered together. They would meet every Sunday evening for a meal—a full meal, a supper (Greek deipnon), during which there would be prayers, Scripture readings, hymns, and of course stories about Jesus. The culmination of the meal would be the Eucharist, when the one presiding over the meal would take bread and wine, pray over them, break the bread, and all would eat and drink.

Some suggest that instead of having the sacramental Bread at the beginning of the meal and the sacramental Wine at the end that the Bread and Wine were taken together, probably at the meal’s end. It is difficult to be certain about those early Eucharistic meals. What is certain is that by the end of the first century or the beginning of the second, the taking of the sacramental Bread and Wine had become separated from the meal itself. The Christians would meet together before dawn on Sunday morning (which, of course, before Constantine’s time was just another work day) and have the Eucharist. They would then gather again later on that day for the meal itself, which they called an “agape,” or “love-feast.” We know this from a letter that Pliny wrote to his emperor, Trajan, in about 112 A.D. He reported that the Christians’ “custom had been to gather before dawn on a fixed day and to sing a hymn to Christ as if to a god… With this complete, it had been their custom to separate, and to meet again to take food – but quite ordinary, harmless food.”

What was this bit in Pliny’s letter about “ordinary, harmless food”? Here we arrive at the heart of our faith and the central mystery of the Eucharist. Pagans at that time believed that we Christians met together to practice cannibalism, that we killed and ate a baby at our services. Believers called Christ the pais theou, “servant of God” or “child of God” (see Acts 4:27, “[God’s] holy Servant Jesus; rendered “[God’s] holy Child Jesus” in the King James Version). It was easy enough to confuse paisas “servant” with pais as “child.” And, of course, Christians whispered about “receiving the Body and the Blood.” What else could it mean except ritual child-killing and cannibalism? That was why Pliny made a point of reporting that at our meals the food was “ordinary and harmless”—no cannibalism, so far as he could tell.

But if not cannibalism, what does this talk about eating flesh mean? It is a stunning image, and one that goes back to Christ Himself: “He who eats My Flesh (Greek sarx) and drinks My Blood has eternal life…he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me” (John 6:54, 57). The Lord’s words on the night of His last supper should be understood as a sacramental application of this earlier teaching—when the disciples ate the bread at the Eucharist in the church, they also ate His Body, His Flesh. When they drank the wine, they also drank His Blood. St. Paul taught precisely this: “Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing [Greek koinonia, participation] in the Blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing [Greek koinonia] in the Body of Christ?” (1 Cor. 10:16). In some sense, then, the Eucharistic bread was His body, and the wine in the cup was His blood. It was not a simple metaphor (like Christ saying, “I am the vine” in John 15:1). Paul said that what was shared and eaten actually was His body and His blood. And he said that some of those who ate it improperly had sickened and died as a result (1 Cor. 11:30). No one dies from a mere metaphor.

How then could Christ’s Body and Blood be present for us? Because in the Eucharist the Church obeys Christ in making a memorial [Greek anamnesis, Hebrew zikkaron] of His Passion. Most people today do not understand memory or memorial as the ancient Hebrews did. For us, memory is something in our heads, a merely mental activity, like day-dreaming. But in the Biblical understanding, a memorial is something done so that God will remember and take action. Take for example the blowing of the silver trumpets which Moses was commanded to make in Numbers 10:1f. The Hebrews were to blow the trumpets over their sacrifices “that you may be remembered before the Lord your God and be saved” (Numbers 10:9). The memorial was the act of blowing the trumpets; God remembered and took action. Or take the example of Cornelius the centurion in Acts 10:31. The angel told him that his “alms have been remembered before God.” That is, his alms functioned as a memorial, and God remembered and took action—in this case, the action of sending Peter to him with the Gospel.

It is in this Biblical sense that Christ made the eating and drinking His memorial. By eating and drinking at the Eucharist, the Church makes His memorial, and by the power of the Holy Spirit God remembers Christ’s Passion and saves us. In this way, Christ’s Passion is present among us. His death is not merely a past historical event, but a present Sacrifice, effective and powerful in our midst. The Sacrifice is present on the Holy Table, and by partaking of the Bread and Cup, we partake of His Body and Blood, His Sacrifice.

The Eucharist is therefore our participation in the saving self-offering of Christ. When we eat His Body and drink His Blood, we receive His divine life and abide in His salvation, receiving forgiveness, healing, transformation, and the power of the Holy Spirit. The Eucharist is thus the fiery center of our Christian life. It is also what binds us together one with another as the Church. Indeed, the Eucharist makes us into the Church, renewing us and reconstituting us week by week as the Body of Christ. As St. Paul said, “We who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Cor. 10:17). The Eucharist is thus the source of our common unity in Christ; it is the ecclesial sacrament par excellence. It is not surprising if the Eucharist was the liturgical context for all the other sacraments of the Church. Even now in Orthodoxy, all ordinations are performed at the Eucharist.

Given the Eucharist’s central place in our salvation, we should prepare ourselves carefully to receive it. We do this by fasting from midnight the night before, so that we come to the Chalice with hungry stomachs and hungry hearts. We do this by praying beforehand that we may receive worthily, forgiving all who have sinned against us and hurt us, and repenting of our own sins. We do this by living all our days in fervent faith, receiving the sacrament of Confession regularly, being faithful in daily prayer and in Scripture-reading, always striving to please the Lord in all things. In other words, we come to the Chalice as Christians, as those who live for the Lord. Thus every Sunday and every feast-day finds us at the Chalice, partaking of salvation. We come every week because we need to. We come every week because we are unworthy and sick, and need to be healed. We come every week because He told us to. We come in the fear of God and with faith and love because without this feast, we have no life.

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## heavenlyboy34

Dang, way behind on this.  In addition to regular liturgy, I've been going to a bible study on Wednesdays. This week was an extra (eucharistic) liturgy in celebration of the Presentation Of Christ, so no class.  Don't have the Gospel/Epistle readings handy, sadly.

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## heavenlyboy34

Sunday of the Pharisee and Publican
After-feast of Presentation of Christ
Martyr Agatha of Sicily; Polyeuktos, patriarch of Constantinople; New-martyr Anthony of Athens; Venerable Theodosios of Scopelos; repose of Theodosios, archbishop of Chernigov
Epistle Timothy 3:10-15  Gospel Luke 18:10-14


 Homily on persecution in the lives of martyrs and saints-and how this is relevant to us; our struggles in living a Godly and Orthodox Christian life.

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## TER

> *Sunday of the Pharisee and Publican*
> After-feast of Presentation of Christ
> Martyr Agatha of Sicily; Polyeuktos, patriarch of Constantinople; New-martyr Anthony of Athens; Venerable Theodosios of Scopelos; repose of Theodosios, archbishop of Chernigov
> Epistle Timothy 3:10-15  Gospel Luke 18:10-14
> 
> 
>  Homily on persecution in the lives of martyrs and saints-and how this is relevant to us; our struggles in living a Godly and Orthodox Christian life.


It is beautiful how the preparation weeks before Holy Lent starts with this parable.  A blessed week ahead for you my brother.

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## heavenlyboy34

Fr Chris' homily from this week-

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## fisharmor

> Fr Chris' homily from this week-


So, when is Fr. Chris going to have all that furniture removed?   

This is our chapel - pretty much all of it.  The festal icon stand is in the center.
On occasion we pack 80 people in here.  During the sermon, I love to sit on the floor with the kids.
It's a completely different dynamic and I recommend it wholeheartedly.

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## heavenlyboy34

2/26 
Romans 13:11-14:4 Gospel Matthew 6:14-21
Forgiveness Sunday
One of my favorite days.  Beginning the Lenten fast by forgiving and asking forgiveness of everyone. Kiss of peace for everyone in the parish.  OMG, the little kids are SO CUTE.

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## heavenlyboy34

> So, when is Fr. Chris going to have all that furniture removed?   
> 
> This is our chapel - pretty much all of it.  The festal icon stand is in the center.
> On occasion we pack 80 people in here.  During the sermon, I love to sit on the floor with the kids.
> It's a completely different dynamic and I recommend it wholeheartedly.


LOL  IDK, I honestly wish the pews were gone myself and have for a really long time. They get in the way of prostrations. Sitting in church is for wimps and oldsters. (which is what the seats on the sides are generally for)

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## heavenlyboy34

A friend shared this on FB and I just want to put it here to remember it.... 
If  a person is not seeking spirituality, he does not partake in the  Kingdom of Heaven, he is still not a Christian, no matter what label he  were to have - monk or layman. Exterior Christianity is not  Christianity. It is secularization, the most dangerous substitution of  Christianity, the cancelling of the Lord's words, that "His Kingdom is  not from this world". A person and a historically separate Church betray  Christianity, when they accept the exterior Christianity, without  knocking on the doors of the spiritual Kingdom.
 Sergei Fudel - a figther against modernism and confessor of faith

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## heavenlyboy34

3/5
Had difficulty getting the cam working because of lack of memory, so only a fragment of homily toady: 


Sunday Of Orthdoxy  Very long service because we do the procession of icons and whatnot. And Lenten liturgy is always long. 

Hieromartyr Konon of Isauria; martyrs Archelaos and his 152  companions in Egypt; New-martyr John the Bulgarian. Gospel: John 1:43-51 Epistle Hebrews 11:24-26; 32-40

ETA:
Whole homily here:

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## fisharmor

For those of you who don't know, the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy is the first Sunday in Lent.  It is specifically to commemorate the final victory of Orthodoxy over the iconoclasts at the seventh ecumenical council, the Second Council of Nicaea in 787.  

Orthodoxy does not accept any later councils.  As we were taught in my parish during today's sermon, we don't have to.  There is nothing that isn't covered in those seven councils.

We also got a run-down of every heresy decried in council in the sermon today.  Including a modern-day application: how the push for female clergy is either an embracing of Nestorianism, ie, Christ has two completely distinct natures and the human is separated from the Son, or it embraces Monophysitism, ie, Christ's human nature was swallowed up in the divine nature.
Either way, the de-emphasis on Christ's human nature and/or his incarnation as a male are at the root of female ordination.

That right there is why I became Orthodox: it seems like every week I get something I couldn't answer while a protestant casually tossed in as a side note to something else that Orthodox teachers consider either more important, or simply advanced to a point where a 40-something actually should be in his faith.

Today my oldest processed with an icon for the first time.  She has a thing about being in front of crowds so it was another sort of victory for us.
Though we did get reminded by her that the only icon she has is of Anna the Forebear, and her saint is Anna the Prophetess.

Incidentally yesterday was the monthly icon guild meeting.  She is working on writing an icon of Archangel Michael, which is the first one everyone starts with in the Prosopon school.  I finally started one yesterday too.  Trouble is that we need to get that practice icon totally done, then start a real icon of Michael, and then diverge into other icons.

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## heavenlyboy34

Procession of the icons and celebration of triumph of Orthodoxy.

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## heavenlyboy34

homily from the other day...


Epistle Hebrews 6:13-20 Gospel Mark 9:16-30
Fourth Sunday of Lent and Leave-taking of the Annunciation to the Theotokos
The synaxis of the Archangel Gabriel, Stephen the Confessor, Abbot of Triglia

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## heavenlyboy34

Fortunate to have the opportunity to go to Great Compline this year (St Andrew Canon) toady.   

Catchup from Sunday:
The homily:


Gospel: Mark 10:32-45 Epistle Hebrews 9:11-14
Commemoration of our righteous mother Mary of Egypt
Venerable Titus the wonderworker; Virgin-martyr Theodora of Palestine; Martyrs Amphianos and Aidesios of Lydia

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## heavenlyboy34

Hope y'all had a blessed Palm Sunday as I did.  Homily from this week: 



Pretty cool-I had trouble tying my palm fraun into a cross and this sweet little girl next to me did it for me.  <3 Also, Palm Sunday procession.  Epistle Philippians. (4:4-9) Gospel John. (12:1-18)

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## heavenlyboy34

Holy and Good Friday awesomeness toady.  So many gospel, epistle, and OT readings I can't list them all. I wanted to join the procession but the crowd was so ginormous (Christmas and Easter people :P ) I and a lobby full of others missed it. I appreciate Holy Week more every year.

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## TER

> Holy and Good Friday awesomeness toady.  So many gospel, epistle, and OT readings I can't list them all. I wanted to join the procession but the crowd was so ginormous (Christmas and Easter people :P ) I and a lobby full of others missed it. I appreciate Holy Week more every year.


One year, we must go to Jerusalem for Holy Week.

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## heavenlyboy34

> One year, we must go to Jerusalem for Holy Week.


I would love that! Mt Athos, Russia, and of course St Anthony's monastery are on my dream list as well.  I have heard good things about the Holy Land in Syria as well.

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## TER

> I would love that! Mt Athos, Russia, and of course St Anthony's monastery are on my dream list as well.  I have heard good things about the Holy Land in Syria as well.


Those are all on my dream list, with the addition of St. John's Monastery on Patmos and St. Catherine's Monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai.

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## heavenlyboy34

Last night-my first Holy Saturday Pascha Vespers, which carried into this morning. Loved it!  Epistle: Acts of the Apostles. (1:1-8) Gospel: John. (1:1-17) Fr Chris delivered a homily by St John Chrysostom as well as his own.  I read the morning's gospel in Russian during Agape vespers.

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## fisharmor

> Last night-my first Holy Saturday Pascha Vespers, which carried into this morning. Loved it!  Epistle: Acts of the Apostles. (1:1-8) Gospel: John. (1:1-17) Fr Chris delivered a homily by St John Chrysostom as well as his own.  I read the morning's gospel in Russian during Agape vespers.


Really it was your first?  Wow!  A Pascha service was my introduction to Orthodoxy.  

We did not have service on Tuesday because our priest is technically retired and he had a teaching obligation.  But I have been singing every other day this week.

Christ is risen!  Indeed he is risen!

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## fisharmor

I didn't get a pic of it in the parish hall but I got this childrens icon stand done just in time for Pascha.  It stands 3'tall total and we verified that a 2' tall child can use the built-in step to kiss the icon.

Just another thing I can't do if i am teaching theology....

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## heavenlyboy34

CHRIST IS RISEN! TRULY HE IS RISEN!  CHRISTOS ANESTI! ALTHIOS ANESTI! ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕСЬ! ВОИСТИНУ ВОСКРЕСЬ! Hope everyone else had a blessed Pascha too.  Had a nice Paschal dinner/late lunch/fellowship hour at Fr Chris' home with a whole host of folks from the Parish.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Really it was your first?  Wow!  A Pascha service was my introduction to Orthodoxy.  
> 
> We did not have service on Tuesday because our priest is technically retired and he had a teaching obligation.  But I have been singing every other day this week.
> 
> Christ is risen!  Indeed he is risen!


Si! Heretofore I simply haven't had the opportunity to attend for one reason or another. I was actually expecting more than showed up, but it was still quite a crowd-the "Easter and Christmas" bunch you can count on to gum up the works more than the rest of the year.  :P

btw, do you not have other parishes in your area you can attend when your priest is gone? There are a number scattered about my area-enough to represent all the orthodox in the world, I think-Russian, Greek, etc, etc. When mine is closed, I attend the Romanian church. Not as nice, but it works.

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## fisharmor

> btw, do you not have other parishes in your area you can attend when your priest is gone? There are a number scattered about my area-enough to represent all the orthodox in the world, I think-Russian, Greek, etc, etc. When mine is closed, I attend the Romanian church. Not as nice, but it works.


Hm, every time our priest is gone we have a fill-in priest.  I don't know the logistics.
We actually have parishioners who bounce between a couple different churches, including one reader.  I keep thinking that we need to go to some of the others in the area - particularly the Greek ones, so I can learn the music - but we've been stuck to this one like flypaper ever since we got there.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hm, every time our priest is gone we have a fill-in priest.  I don't know the logistics.
> We actually have parishioners who bounce between a couple different churches, including one reader.  I keep thinking that we need to go to some of the others in the area - particularly the Greek ones, so I can learn the music - but we've been stuck to this one like flypaper ever since we got there.


You don't have pan-Orthodox Vespers in your area?  I guess it's a regional thing. Pretty interesting-during Lent, each Sunday each parish in town picks a Sunday to "host" that day. My parish typically does Sunday of Orthodoxy. It's neat because you typically meet people during coffee hour you otherwise wouldn't.

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## TER

> You don't have pan-Orthodox Vespers in your area?  I guess it's a regional thing. Pretty interesting-during Lent, each Sunday each parish in town picks a Sunday to "host" that day. My parish typically does Sunday of Orthodoxy. It's neat because you typically meet people during coffee hour you otherwise wouldn't.


That is awesome to hear!    It sounds like Orthodoxy is growing in the heartland. 

 I believe Orthodoxy in this nation was planted in Alaska, grew up in the large coastal metropolises, and will mature in the heartland.  It is very reassuring that this is taking place. 

Glory to God for all things!

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## heavenlyboy34

> That is awesome to hear!    It sounds like Orthodoxy is growing in the heartland. 
> 
>  I believe Orthodoxy in this nation was planted in Alaska, grew up in the large coastal metropolises, and will mature in the heartland.  It is very reassuring that this is taking place. 
> 
> Glory to God for all things!


Indeed! St Herman of Alaska, IIRC.  Glory to God, indeed! Слава Богу!

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## RJB

> You don't have pan-Orthodox Vespers in your area?  I guess it's a regional thing. Pretty interesting-during Lent, each Sunday each parish in town picks a Sunday to "host" that day. My parish typically does Sunday of Orthodoxy. It's neat because you typically meet people during coffee hour you otherwise wouldn't.


We have three Churches in my area (Greek, ROCOR, and Carpatho-Russian.).   We mix a lot.  After Liturgy, I went to a Pascha party that had people from all three.  Although we haven't had mixed services for some unknown reason.

It's funny.  I usually love family gatherings, but Pascha My wife and I prefer hanging out with other Orthodox.  Lamb never tastes better than after a Lenten fast.

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## RJB

> Really it was your first?  Wow!  A Pascha service was my introduction to Orthodoxy.  
> 
> We did not have service on Tuesday because our priest is technically retired and he had a teaching obligation.  But I have been singing every other day this week.
> 
> Christ is risen!  Indeed he is risen!


. I haven't been to one either.  My priest is older and doesn't have the stamina.  Next year I will definitely go to one of the other Churches. I gave some of my friends from those parishes permission to hold me to it.

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## fisharmor

> . I haven't been to one either.  My priest is older and doesn't have the stamina.  Next year I will definitely go to one of the other Churches. I gave some of my friends from those parishes permission to hold me to it.


Oh, goodness, guys!  Next year get to Virginia, and I'll put you both up, and I'll take you to Pascha!
This year we had 54 people packed into our little country chapel, and most of them were singing at the top of their lungs.  It was like thunder!
CHRIST IS RISEN FROM THE DEAD, TRAMPLING DOWN DEATH BY DEATH, AND UPON THOSE IN THE TOMBS BESTOWING LIFE!

My 8yo stayed up through the whole thing - not like she had a choice!  But even though she can't talk and had two seizures during the liturgy, she still, like always, knew when we were getting close to communion and got physically excited, even though it was 2 in the morning.

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## TER

> Oh, goodness, guys!  Next year get to Virginia, and I'll put you both up, and I'll take you to Pascha!
> This year we had 54 people packed into our little country chapel, and most of them were singing at the top of their lungs.  It was like thunder!
> CHRIST IS RISEN FROM THE DEAD, TRAMPLING DOWN DEATH BY DEATH, AND UPON THOSE IN THE TOMBS BESTOWING LIFE!
> 
> My 8yo stayed up through the whole thing - not like she had a choice!  But even though she can't talk and had two seizures during the liturgy, she still, like always, knew when we were getting close to communion and got physically excited, even though it was 2 in the morning.





To echo what fisharmor wrote, the Paschal Divine Liturgy is the simply an exhilarating experience. 

 In the first centuries, it was this Divine Liturgy whereby the Christian catechumens first partook of the Holy Eucharist after intense fasting during the preceding Lent.  They would be baptized in the middle of the service.  That is why we sing the hymn "as many that have been baptized in Christ have put on Christ" during the service.  Some of the most dearest spiritual experiences in my own life have taken place during this beautiful service.

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## TER

Here is a short video by Rick Stevens about his experience of Pascha celebration in Greece

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## TER

The Holy Eucharist is given by the Lord in remembrance of me (1 Cor. 11:25). First of all, in sensu realissimo, the Eucharist is the power of the Incarnation, the realized and abiding Divine-humanity, including all the faithful: we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread (10:17). The Divine Eucharist is the abiding of Christ in the world, His connection with the world, despite the ascension: I am with you always, even unto the end of the world (Matt. 28:20) by the Holy Spirit, sent by Him into the world from the Father: and I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you foreverI will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you (John 14:16, 18).  


Communion with the body and blood is therefore not yet all that the Eucharist signifies as the divine It is finished (John 19:30), as the sacrificial and abiding Incarnation. It is the sacrament of sacraments, the foundation of all the sacraments, and its accomplishing power is the Pentecost, the coming into the world of the Holy Spirit, who shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you (14:26). In remembrance of me [anamnesin] and to bringto your remembrance [hypomnesei] are closely connected, which is expressed in the fact that the breaking of the bread appears in the life of the Church only after the Pentecost, as the accomplishment of Divine humanity.


Thus, originally, in the apostolic age, the Divine Eucharist as the basis of all the sacraments was exclusively that which it is as the realization of the body of the Church as the body of Christ. Its essential character was not hierarchical but koinonic. That is, its character was one of sobornost, but this character was replaced as early as the second century by hierarchism, which, of course, did not completely eliminate it, but was capable of obscuring it. How this happened has to be explained by church history. 

(Sergius Bulgakov, The Bride of the Lamb, pp. 286-287).

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## heavenlyboy34

> The Holy Eucharist is given by the Lord “in remembrance of me” (1 Cor. 11:25). First of all, in sensu realissimo, the Eucharist is the power of the Incarnation, the realized and abiding Divine-humanity, including all the faithful: “we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread” (10:17). The Divine Eucharist is the abiding of Christ in the world, His connection with the world, despite the ascension: “I am with you always, even unto the end of the world” (Matt. 28:20) by the Holy Spirit, sent by Him into the world from the Father: “and I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever…I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you” (John 14:16, 18).  
> 
> 
> Communion with the body and blood is therefore not yet all that the Eucharist signifies as the divine “It is finished” (John 19:30), as the sacrificial and abiding Incarnation. It is the sacrament of sacraments, the foundation of all the sacraments, and its accomplishing power is the Pentecost, the coming into the world of the Holy Spirit, who “shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you“ (14:26). “In remembrance of me [anamnesin]” and “to bring…to your remembrance [hypomnesei]” are closely connected, which is expressed in the fact that the “breaking of the bread” appears in the life of the Church only after the Pentecost, as the accomplishment of Divine humanity.
> 
> 
> Thus, originally, in the apostolic age, the Divine Eucharist as the basis of all the sacraments was exclusively that which it is as the realization of the body of the Church as the body of Christ. Its essential character was not hierarchical but koinonic. That is, its character was one of sobornost, but this character was replaced as early as the second century by hierarchism, which, of course, did not completely eliminate it, but was capable of obscuring it. How this happened has to be explained by church history.” 
> 
> (Sergius Bulgakov, The Bride of the Lamb, pp. 286-287).


Is this Bulgakov related to the legendary Mikhail Bulgakov, author of "The Master And Margarita"?  (which, if you haven't read it, you must! It's not like the Brothers Karamazov, but the "novel within a novel" plot line in particular is something I think can be appreciated from an orthodox POV, even though it isn't really Orthodox)

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## TER

> Is this Bulgakov related to the legendary Mikhail Bulgakov, author of "The Master And Margarita"?  (which, if you haven't read it, you must! It's not like the Brothers Karamazov, but the "novel within a novel" plot line in particular is something I think can be appreciated from an orthodox POV, even though it isn't really Orthodox)


Not sure if they are related. I believe Mikhail Bulgakov's father was a priest.

Funny you mention the book "The Master and Margarita" as I just read it only a couple of months ago.  Very interesting book!  Like an adult version of Alice in Wonderland!

I would recommend to you the book I just finished called "Laurus". It is an *outstanding* book.  I highly recommend it!

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## heavenlyboy34

Toady's homily: 

Epistle Acts 9:32-42 Gospel John 5:1-15 fourth Sunday of Pascha Sunday of the Paralytic
Appearance of the sign of the precious cross in the heavens above Jerusalem(351 AD), Martyr Akakios the centurion at Byzantium; John of Beverly, Bishop of York, Preist Alexis Toth of Wilkes-Barre, conessor and defender of Orthodoxy in America

My godmother informed me today she will no longer be coming to our parish.  :'(

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## heavenlyboy34

Homily from 2 weeks ago- 


last week-


Blessed Pentacost everyone!  Not sure if every jurisdiction of Orthodoxy does them, but we did the kneeling prayers. I really like these.  

Pretty neat-we're blessed to have some of the Holy Fire with us from Jerusalem nao. We're proud that our choir director graduates high skool this month.  Many years!

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## heavenlyboy34

Sorry I've neglected this for so long.  Kurwa. Anyhoo, my voice is well enough I'm back to choir work nao.   Fr Chris was doing a wedding, so Greg did the homily toady. 

11th sunday after Pentecost and Eleventh Sunday of Matthew. After-feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos. Prophet Samuel; Martyr Photeini of Blachernae; Martyrs Heliodoros and Dosai of Persia

Gospel: Epistle: Matthew 18:3-35 Corinthians 9:2-12

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## heavenlyboy34

Dang, fell behind again. 
Well, tonite I went to Fr Chris' ongoing class on Divine Liturgy, which was interesting.  Then I went to Greg's class on "discipleship: leadership for warrior saints". Next week chant class is supposed to start again. 

8/27
epistle: I Corinthians 15:1-11 Gospel Matthew 19:16-26 
homily:

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## heavenlyboy34

Last week Bishop John presided over liturgy. 


Epistle-Corinthians 16:13-24 Gospel Matthew 21:33-42

This week
Most of the choir was gone, so I took over all of the bass/baritone parts. Jack K. dropped in to "help" a little, but he's more of a chanter and can't sing choral music worth a damn. Kept throwing me off. :P

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## heavenlyboy34



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## heavenlyboy34

Proto-martyr Thekla, equal to the apostles and first Sunday of Luke
Venerable Silouan of Athos Commemoration of the wonder working icon of the Theotokos of the Myrtle Tree; New-martyr Ahmed; Venerable Nicander of Pskov; the Synaxis of all saints of Alaska

Nice Day.  My voice was relaxed-the chanting is helping.  Practiced holding ison when I wasn't busy with baritone stuff. I'm liking chant because it's a different way to internalize scripture and theology.  Venerated the of St Thekkla.

Gospel:Luke 5:1-11 Epistle Timothy 3:10-15

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## heavenlyboy34

Last week's homily is up nao-

 I'll have this week's up when available. 

This week:
16th Sunday after Pentacost and second sunday of Luke apostle Ananias of the seventy, first bishop of Damascas and Righteous father  Romanos the Melodist Martyr Domninos of Thessalonica; Venerable John Koukouzelis and Gregory the Domestikos of the Great Lavra on Athos Venerable Sabbas of Vishshera in Russia

Epistle-Corinthians 6:16-7:1 Gospel Luke 6:31-36

My godmama brought me a neat card she got from the monastery. She says she asked the monks to pray for me.  <3

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## heavenlyboy34

1/14 
Leave-taking of and Sunday after Theophany of Christ; Holy fathers slain at Sinai and Raithy; Virgin-martyr Agnes; Venerable Theodoulos, son of Neilos the Wise of Sinai; Nina, equal-to-the Apostles and enlightener of Georgia; Sabbas, first archbishop of Serbia
Epistle-Ephesians 14:7-13 Gospel Matthew 4:12-17 
Good homily on the Biblical view of the relationship between man and wife.  <3

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## heavenlyboy34

This week's homily is up 


1/21-32nd Sunday after Pentecost and 15th Sunday of Luke; Venerable Meximos the Confessor; Martyr Neophytos of Nicea; Venerable Zodimas, Bishop of Syracuse in Sicily; Venerable Maximos the Greek of Russia
Epistle Timothy 4:9-15 Gospel Luke 19:1-10

Learned how to say my name in Arabic.   Pretty happy because I'm getting better at holding ison, so perhaps I'll have a chance to chant during liturgy some day soon. I would enjoy learning the chant literature as a supplement to scripture and other readings.

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## fisharmor

There is a show on Amazon Prime titled simply Sophia which was done for Russian television, about Princess Sofia, Last heir of Byzantium who married into Russian nobility in the 1470 s. I was reminded of it just now because when they are visited by papal legates they refer to them as beardless priests. :-)

Since we are on the Julian cycle last weekend was Theophany.  I did not know until this year that theophany in the ancient church was equal as a festival to Christmas and Pascha.  This is when holy water is blessed. Ira previous priest made a small portion and we all got little vials. This year was our first year with Vladyka and he filled the baptismal font twice. We were all encouraged to go home with gallon jugs or more.

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## heavenlyboy34

QUITE A WEEK!!  Saturday was young adults' retreat to St Anthony's monastery. One of the most interesting and beautiful experiences I've ever had.   Probably my favorite part was when we were exploring some of the churches. The place had really nice accoustics, so a girl-IDR who-asked Fr Chris to sing something. So he and Greg chanted and I held ison and we filled the church with joyous noise. 

BTW, eating like a monk is good for a day, but I don't suggest making it a lifestyle for most people. (especially during the Lenten fast) 

toady: gospel-Mark 2:1-12 Epistle Hebrews 1:10-2:3

Second Sunday of Lent
Commemoration of Gregory Palamas, archbishop of Thessalonica
Venerable Gerasimos of the Jordan; Gregory, bishop of Constantia in Cyprus;
Martyrs Paul and Juliana of Palestine; Daniel the wonderworker, prince of Moscow

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## heavenlyboy34

@fisharmor hope you're making your way through Lent well!  <3 It's SO BUSY this year!

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## fisharmor

> @fisharmor hope you're making your way through Lent well!  <3 It's SO BUSY this year!


It's our first year of seriously attempting the fast.  The only exceptions I'm making are oil (who can cook for a family of 5 without even oil?) and occasional fish, and that only because of my cholesterol.
We got a Lidl in town recently and those cunning ******s put the bakery right up next to the entrance, so as you're coming in you're bombarded with that smell.
I went in last night mouth watering, intent on getting a bready treat for just my oldest and me (since nobody else eats gluten) and was immediately reminded that everything in the case has dairy in it.

This is hard.  Harder than I thought.  I wish I could say I have new respect for vegans, but every time I think about it I think, WTF would you do this to yourself for, other than holy reasons? I'm looking forward to Pascha first for Pascha's sake, but the close runner-up reason is having solid poop again.

Only a little longer than a month left...

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## heavenlyboy34

> It's our first year of seriously attempting the fast.  The only exceptions I'm making are oil (who can cook for a family of 5 without even oil?) and occasional fish, and that only because of my cholesterol.
> We got a Lidl in town recently and those cunning ******s put the bakery right up next to the entrance, so as you're coming in you're bombarded with that smell.
> I went in last night mouth watering, intent on getting a bready treat for just my oldest and me (since nobody else eats gluten) and was immediately reminded that everything in the case has dairy in it.
> 
> This is hard.  Harder than I thought.  I wish I could say I have new respect for vegans, but every time I think about it I think, WTF would you do this to yourself for, other than holy reasons? I'm looking forward to Pascha first for Pascha's sake, but the close runner-up reason is having solid poop again.
> 
> Only a little longer than a month left...


I am impress! I couldn't go full vegan this Lent because I don't know what to replace my eggs with. I was able to give up beef and poultry easily, though. I rarely ate it anyway, being primarily pescatarian in nature.

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## fisharmor

I went to visit my brother-in-law Fr Nicholas and his family in Philadelphia this weekend, and of course went to liturgy at his parish, Sts Peter and Paul Albanian Orthodox.
Our home parish choir has a bunch of people who can't read music well, and some others who can and aren't great singers, but we make up for it in preparation... his choir has some great singers who can read music, and the director passes out the Troparion music directly before we're singing it and we just sight read it.    So since I can sight read, I get on just fine with them whenever I visit.

His sermon tied together the Sundays of Lent so far.  The first Sunday of Lent is the Triumph of Orthodoxy, commemorating the end of the iconoclast controversy, and the final agreement that the icons are staying from now on.  The point of that Sunday is to remember that the theology of icons is that Christ is true man, and was incarnate.  By veneration of physical objects, we remember and meditate on the incarnation.

The second Sunday of Lent  is the Sunday of St Gregory Palamas, who showed that through physical actions - fasting and prayer - we can become participants in God's glory.

The third Sunday of Lent is the veneration of the Cross, where we remember that physical object by which Christ effected his redemption, but also to remember our part is to live out our faith.

This last Sunday, the fourth Sunday, was dedicated to St John Climacus, the author of the Ladder of Divine Ascent.  Fr Nicholas' sermon was pointing out that our Lenten experience so far has been to remind us that we are on this ladder, but that the icon depicts people at ALL stages of ascent being dragged down by demons.  We need always to remember that no matter how far we get up the ladder, we always have farther to go, and can always be pulled down.




On the drive back home to Virginia, I was telling my wife (who had child issues and couldn't hear the sermon) what it was about, and at that point I realized that there is a reason why Orthodox sermons don't go on and on and on and on for 45 minutes like so many others I've sat through in my former life.  We are surrounded by teaching aids, and our year is organized pretty strictly to teach the faith, in its fullness.  Teaching happens throughout the entire service, not just the sermon, and takes the form of imagery as well as word.  There isn't just no need to go on for such a length - it's to a certain extent not even possible, not without harping on something that has already been said or done multiple times already.

A few months ago my BiL let slip to me that his preaching (which I consider stellar) doesn't take him hours of preparation - in fact, at the moment where he let it slip, he demonstrated that he could produce a ten minute sermon for any particular Sunday within seconds if required.  All he needed to do is know where he was in the year.

This is how I know I'm in the right place - it's the Church, big-C, where there are bigger things going on, and external forces to help us work out our salvation.

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## RJB

> We are surrounded by teaching aids, and our year is organized pretty strictly to teach the faith, in its fullness.  Teaching happens throughout the entire service, not just the sermon, and takes the form of imagery as well as word.  There isn't just no need to go on for such a length - it's to a certain extent not even possible, not without harping on something that has already been said or done multiple times already.


When the Bible Answer Man converted to Orthodoxy, a militant evangelical went to the vigil before Pascha to confront him.  He didn't confront Hank, but he wrote an (unintentionally) funny critique of the Orthodox service.  One of his complaints was that there was lots of Bible verses being chanted, but no sermons on what they meant.  This struck me as hilarious.  Here was a Sola Scriptura guy complaining that the Bible alone wasn't enough.

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## heavenlyboy34

> When the Bible Answer Man converted to Orthodoxy, a militant evangelical went to the vigil before Pascha to confront him.  He didn't confront Hank, but he wrote an (unintentionally) funny critique of the service.  One of his complaints was that there was lots of Bible verses being chanted, but no sermons on what they meant.  This struck me as hilarious.  Here was a Sola Scriptura guy complaining that the Bible alone wasn't enough.


LOLOL  Good thing he didn't go to an Orthros service too. His head would've exploded.

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## RJB

> It's our first year of seriously attempting the fast.


I usually do pretty good on the diet, but in past years, the spiritual aspect was really lacking despite the diet, and that's the important part-- so I am in no way bragging.

Usually I am a meat, eggs, and low carb vegetable person.  This diet can really get to me, but I hear the flexitarian diet is starting to become the recent fad.  The EOC is 2000 years ahead of the trends  

One thing that really helps me is just not eating for a day or two or three.  Monks will usually fast this way from Sunday's cheese fair until Wednesday's presanctified liturgy.  I stumbled upon this quite by accident.  It wasn't discipline but rather looking at a plate of vegetarian food, my body was like, "What's the point of eating this food devoid of nourishment?" I will do a few dry fasts over Lent that extend from 24 to 72 hours.   After not eating, the body will reset, purify itself and be grateful for any food.  It must work!  I actually thank God for a plate of beans (and mean it, LOL.)

I also save favorite hot sauces, favorite foods like figs and macadamia nuts exclusively for Lent.  There is a brand of habanero hempeh that I actually look forward to eating in Lent.

I know you don't need to hear this, but sometimes I do:  Even if you blow the diet, don't beat yourself up and forsake the prayer life as a result of your disappointment in yourself. That's one of the greatest weapons of the enemy.  Lent is about our relationship with God.

All of you are in my prayers on this journey.

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## heavenlyboy34

Notes from Sunday...
Homily on Man and his work

men(unlike women) tend to define themselves by work and their success
Necrosis-Greek word used in Septuagint for "barren"-lit. "dead"
Melchizadek-a type of Christ in the OT
We tithe to give thanks, not because God needs it
Befining ourselves by what we do reduces us to a number-tithing makes us part of something bigger, teaches patient endurance


Gospel-Mark 9:16-30 Epistle-Hebrews 6:13-20 @fisharmor, I think you'll find this homily series fascinating as I have. 
3 weeks ago-


2 weeks ago-


1 week ago-

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## heavenlyboy34

Hope everyone's had a great Holy Week! IS OF MADNESS! The usual candlelight Good Friday evening liturgy-awesomesauce. I had the opportunity to go to Vespers of The Empty Tomb this morning.  @RJB @TER @fisharmor Hope y'all can join me in staying up late tonight for Rush Procession leading into Pascha.

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## RJB

I am going to the Greek Church with some friends.  My pastor is not in good health.  I will go without my wife and kids.  The funny thing is my wife is worried about me staying out late because she wants me at Liturgy at our church tomorrow and not tired and grumpy.  I reminded her that I had stayed up past midnight drinking in the past.  She reminded me that I was young then, lol.  I am only 46!

I laughed.  Most wives worry about their husbands out late at a bar.  Mine is worried about me out late at church.  Women...

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## TER

> I am going to the Greek Church with some friends.  My pastor is not in good health.  I will go without my wife and kids.  The funny thing is my wife is worried about me staying out late because she wants me at Liturgy at our church tomorrow and not tired and grumpy.  I reminded her that I had stayed up past midnight drinking in the past.  She reminded me that I was young then, lol.  I am only 46!
> 
> I laughed.  Most wives worry about their husbands out late at a bar.  Mine is worried about me out late at church.  Women...


Going to the Greek Church, you should get some great magaritsa soup after the Liturgy!  It tastes sooo good, you will forget you just fasted for 7 weeks!

As for tomorrow, there is no Liturgy.  Tomorrow’s service is the Great Vespers of Agapi, which is a beautiful service, but the Liturgy for Sunday/Pascha is done tonight after midnight. Just want to make you aware in case you were planning to have communion tomorrow...  it is a mistake I have made in the past...

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## heavenlyboy34

edit: oops, n/m :/

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## heavenlyboy34

> I am going to the Greek Church with some friends.  My pastor is not in good health.  I will go without my wife and kids.  The funny thing is my wife is worried about me staying out late because she wants me at Liturgy at our church tomorrow and not tired and grumpy.  I reminded her that I had stayed up past midnight drinking in the past.  She reminded me that I was young then, lol.*  I am only 46!
> *
> I laughed.  Most wives worry about their husbands out late at a bar.  Mine is worried about me out late at church.  Women...


OMFG, UR SO OOOOOOOLD!!!!  LOL  J/K (still quite a bit older than me, tho)

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## RJB

Christ is Risen!!!

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## RJB

> Going to the Greek Church, you should get some great magaritsa soup after the Liturgy!  It tastes sooo good, you will forget you just fasted for 7 weeks!
> 
> As for tomorrow, there is no Liturgy.  Tomorrow’s service is the Great Vespers of Agapi, which is a beautiful service, but the Liturgy for Sunday/Pascha is done tonight after midnight. Just want to make you aware in case you were planning to have communion tomorrow...  it is a mistake I have made in the past...


Because my priest doesn't do the midnight liturgy we do a Pascha Liturgy in the morning.  So to make sure I'm not grumpy before Liturgy, I am drinking some Pu-erh tea since I won't receive the Eucharist.   The caffeine is nice...

I went to the Greek Church last night and morning and broke the fast with that famous soup.  It was some good stuff.

Afterwards there is a party at the Greek Priest's house.  They are barbecuing 3 lambs!!!  It should be fun.  One of his sons is a manager of a gun shop.  His parties tend to get noisy. I am tired and rambling.  

Again, Christ is Risen!

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## TER

> Christ is Risen!!!





> Because my priest doesn't do the midnight liturgy we do a Pascha Liturgy in the morning.  So to make sure I'm not grumpy before Liturgy, I am drinking some Pu-erh tea since I won't receive the Eucharist.   The caffeine is nice...
> 
> I went to the Greek Church last night and morning and broke the fast with that famous soup.  It was some good stuff.
> 
> Afterwards there is a party at the Greek Priest's house.  They are barbecuing 3 lambs!!!  It should be fun.  One of his sons is a manager of a gun shop.  His parties tend to get noisy. I am tired and rambling.  
> 
> Again, Christ is Risen!



Indeed He is Risen!  Glory to God!

Enjoy the feast and have a great time!

----------


## fisharmor

We've been promising the kids they get 7 whole days of no church.

With a metropolitan for a rector, your scheduled services for Holy Week get cranked up a notch.
Vladyka was careful to point out that it still wasn't close to all the services.
I was there every night from Monday through Saturday, and I missed one of the afternoon services early in the week, but the family went... and then I got to go to the 3pm on Friday.

We skipped the 10am Saturday service to give the kids a break before Pascha liturgy, and also because we had to decorate cheese Paschas and make babkas, so we got to spend all day Saturday on our feet, anyway.

A couple weeks ago a friend of ours who runs an organic farm put out an APB that he was missing his sales for the month, so we picked up a bunch of stuff for Pascha... and I have to say one of my new favorite things is chorizo.  That was the first thing I ate after the blessing.  And I really wish I had taken some for lunch today because now I want some.

On Pascha Sunday there's always a parishioner who opens his house to the group and we do Pascha vespers there, and then have several hours of fellowship.  We brought over $50 of KFC, just the chicken... and it all went.  I thought for sure I was overbuying!

The mother of the family who owns the house is from Mexico originally, and she introduced the kids to a Pascha tradition in Mexico, where they hollow out dyed eggs, fill them with confetti, and carefully glue tissue paper over the hole - and then the kids break the eggs over each others' heads and get confetti everywhere.

I'm kind of disappointed Holy Week is over.  I had successfully put a lot of my life on hold for a whole week.  Now I'm sitting on a call listening to people talk about their server performance problems and the Holy Week music is playing over and over in my head, and I'm finding it difficult to come back to Earth.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Christ is Risen!!!


Truly he is risen!

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## heavenlyboy34

Been away for a while, due to a lot of busy-ness!!  I've become an active chanter. I chant all Orthros and during communion in Liturgy and whenever else I'm asked. Since chanter/cantor is a minor clergy title, I got Fr.'s blessing to vest in a cantor's robe.  (it's going to take a month to get here in the mail tho :P ) Since subdcn. Michael let me try 2 weeks ago, I've been allowed to take solo verses during Orthros which is pretty interesting and challenging-improvise a tune with the text given on the spot in a stylistically correct way. :O  #kurwa  

Toady:
Gospel John 17:1-13
Epistle Acts 20:16-18, 28-36

Sorry for the long absence, @fisharmor @TER, @RJB, et al

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## fisharmor

Is Chanter another term for Reader?
Vladyka is going to be tonsuring two Readers and two Subdeacons next week.
I'm not one of them.
People keep asking, and so far I haven't had to go beyond "no thank you".  Between keeping a hand on Paisley to make sure she doesn't seize and kiss the floor, and the 9 month old boy who is becoming really mobile, both parents have enough going on without me trying to do more than sing.  

Yesterday we had a special assembly to buy a parcel of land, where we'll build our own temple.  We're renting right now from an Anglican church, and we really like our old 1840's chapel, but we've outgrown it.  It was getting pretty packed when Fr Alexander was there, but when he was replaced with Metropolitan Jonah, the thing we were expecting started to happen: for some reason having a Metropolitan around all the time has attracted even more people.

Vladyka is digging in here - he's moving closer to the parish, and is looking for property to buy to set up a skete, and he's been personally involved with raising missions up to parishes multiple times.  So really exciting (and scary) things are going on here.

Since I'm the warden, I had to run the meeting where we voted on it... and I was NOT into it.  I still have trust issues with church, which is held over from my Lutheran days... and the fact that my brothers in Christ at this Orthodox church contain a lot of federal law enforcement types doesn't help.... and so I just told everyone what I was feeling: that my primary concern is not buying property, or building a temple, but that nobody gets injured in the process.  I've been saying that for a while... we have an excellent opportunity here to make some bitter enemies.

The deal we're getting on this property can't be beaten, money is starting to flow in from nowhere, we have an experienced Metropolitan navigating for us, and for better or worse, a warden who has seen how crappy people can be to each other who is determined to prevent it... it certainly sounds like we're building a church!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Is Chanter another term for Reader?
> Vladyka is going to be tonsuring two Readers and two Subdeacons next week.
> I'm not one of them.
> People keep asking, and so far I haven't had to go beyond "no thank you".  Between keeping a hand on Paisley to make sure she doesn't seize and kiss the floor, and the 9 month old boy who is becoming really mobile, both parents have enough going on without me trying to do more than sing.  
> 
> Yesterday we had a special assembly to buy a parcel of land, where we'll build our own temple.  We're renting right now from an Anglican church, and we really like our old 1840's chapel, but we've outgrown it.  It was getting pretty packed when Fr Alexander was there, but when he was replaced with Metropolitan Jonah, the thing we were expecting started to happen: for some reason having a Metropolitan around all the time has attracted even more people.
> 
> Vladyka is digging in here - he's moving closer to the parish, and is looking for property to buy to set up a skete, and he's been personally involved with raising missions up to parishes multiple times.  So really exciting (and scary) things are going on here.
> 
> ...


Nah, chanter is another word for cantor. I do this kind of thing: 

 If you pay attention during Orthros, there is a special tune (IDR the technical term now) where a verse is chanted by the full ensemble and then a brief line is chanted by a soloist (sometimes a psalm line, but usually a verse composed specially for the day). Well, I always take one of the solo lines nao that I have some experience.    I don't have any particular ambition to go beyond chanter ATM. Maybe someday when I'm old I'll be a subdeacon. Glad to hear your church is growing!  <3 ~hugs~

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## heavenlyboy34

Special liturgy toady-All Souls. Got a chance to chant a lot and sight-read some tunes I really liked and haven't done before.  This was my first All Souls' liturgy, and I'll make an effort to make all of them in the future.   (Did your kids make it through okay, @fisharmor ?)

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## TER

> Special liturgy toady-All Souls. Got a chance to chant a lot and sight-read some tunes I really liked and haven't done before.  This was my first All Souls' liturgy, and I'll make an effort to make all of them in the future.   (Did your kids make it through okay, @fisharmor ?)


May God bless you, my brother, for your prayers and your service for the Church.  

May the memory of your loved ones be eternal.

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## fisharmor

We had a loooooooong day yesterday.  Vladyka ordained two subdeacons and a new reader.  Then divine liturgy for Pentecost, and of course kneeling vespers.
I missed vespers because I was grilling.  
One of the new subdeacons rented a bounce house for the kids, and we had lawn games, and deacon brought some of his bourbon barrel porter.

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## heavenlyboy34

Homily from Sunday-

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## fisharmor

Hi guys, please keep Met Jonah in your prayers.  His mother died two weeks ago, and as soon as she was buried Vladyka was admitted to the hospital with a leg infection.  Since he's diabetic it's more serious than he's letting on.

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## fisharmor

I ran into this today and thought I'd post it for any protestants that might be reading.  This Russian priest definitely puts the traditions of Orthodoxy in perspective, IMO.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hi guys, please keep Met Jonah in your prayers.  His mother died two weeks ago, and as soon as she was buried Vladyka was admitted to the hospital with a leg infection.  Since he's diabetic it's more serious than he's letting on.


Господи!  Praying. Met. Jonah sounds familiar. IIRC, the Deacons do petitions for him during the litany all the time. I only pay partial attention because I do the response during both matins and liturgy.

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## heavenlyboy34

Homily from last week- 

 @fisharmor

This week, some notes from the homily:
-bickering over opinions should be avoided  -look for things to fight for instead of about  -actively try to serve/love someone daily

No major mistakes during chant this week, but my solos weren't nearly as good as I would like them to be.  I've found that when I assume the role of choral bass section leader during liturgy, my section sounds a lot better-so I'm going to be doing that from now on.  
Good thing I always remember my reading glasses nowadays-the sheet music at the chanter stand and at the director's stand in the loft is ridiculously tiny. :P #kurwa

Gospel: Luke 1:1-25, 57-68,76,80 Epistle: Romans 13:11-14:4

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## fisharmor

Man I would love to come down there and just look at the woodwork.

In answer to your question on the picture thread... yeah, we sing the Cherubic Hymn during every liturgy.  I'm kind of surprised you don't.
We actually have four different scores that get regular rotation, and a fifth that we do occasionally, and I'm pretty sure there's a sixth I don't immediately recall.
As I said in the other thread, the Cherubic Hymn is probably my favorite part of the liturgy - not so much because of the music, but because it is a distinct point in the service where we say Ok, all that stuff we worry about, wars, rumors of wars, sickness, death, illegal immigration, all the way down to Google's disinterest in bringing the Android One initiative to America.... it all doesn't matter at this point.  We are in the presence of the body and blood of the risen Christ, and we are laying aside all of those Earthly cares.  We mystically represent the Cherubim and as such will put all of that stuff in a box and concentrate on the thing happening in front of us.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Man I would love to come down there and just look at the woodwork.
> 
> In answer to your question on the picture thread... yeah, we sing the Cherubic Hymn during every liturgy.  I'm kind of surprised you don't.
> We actually have four different scores that get regular rotation, and a fifth that we do occasionally, and I'm pretty sure there's a sixth I don't immediately recall.
> As I said in the other thread, the Cherubic Hymn is probably my favorite part of the liturgy - not so much because of the music, but because it is a distinct point in the service where we say Ok, all that stuff we worry about, wars, rumors of wars, sickness, death, illegal immigration, all the way down to Google's disinterest in bringing the Android One initiative to America.... it all doesn't matter at this point.  We are in the presence of the body and blood of the risen Christ, and we are laying aside all of those Earthly cares.  We mystically represent the Cherubim and as such will put all of that stuff in a box and concentrate on the thing happening in front of us.


We do the Cherubic Hymn every week. Did I say otherwise?  O kurwa. oops.  ATM though, choir is on hiatus.  The chant version is way less interesting, but it works and it's still rewarding to perform.

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## heavenlyboy34

Finally back at this. Pretty well have the hang of my new chanter's rassa nao. #lookinggood definitely not easy to put on and take off. :O Still kind of learning my way around the back way, I almost crossed the altar the last couple weeks. SMFH  #facepalm 

Ninth Sunday after Pentacost and Ninth Sunday of Matthew  Holy Martyr Kallinikos of Gangra in Asia Minor; Holy Virgin Martyr Theodota of Byhtinia; Pious Emperor Theodosios the Younger; Constantine III, patriarch of Constantinople; Lupus the Confessor, bishop of Troyes; Martyr Serapia of Antioch

Epistle I Corinthians 3:9-17
Gospel Matthew 14:22-34

recent homilies...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFPlqzbA58U

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## heavenlyboy34

Kind of a rough day. Some heinous insect(s) bit both my big toes at about the time I woke up. Recovering from that cost me a significant amount of time. Thus, I was late to Orthros.  Fr insists I be there to put on my cassock and chant at 8:30 from nao on. Kurwa.


 The Iveron icon of the Theotokos was with us today, so we performed extra theotokia and whatnot for the occasion. Also commemorating the after-feast of the Theotokos with all that music.


 Twelfth Sunday after Pentacost and Twelfth Sunday of Matthew. After-feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos Holy Martyr Andrew the Commander and those with him; Venerable Theophanes of Docheirariou monastery on Athos


 Epistle 1 Corinthians 1:1-11 Gospel Matthew 19:16-26

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## heavenlyboy34

8/26-was a better day. On time   Epistle 1 Corinthians 16:13-24 Gospel Matthew 21:33-42. 13th sunday after Pentecost and 13th Sunday of Matthew Martyrs Adrian and Natalie of Nicomedia Venerable Joasaph, prince of India; Venerable Adrian of Ondrutsov. Learned how to print off and study the liturgical guide for Orthros ahead of time.

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## heavenlyboy34

Blessed feast day to y'all! The Nativity of the Theotokos is *officially* Saturday, but we Orthodox celebrate the liturgy tonight. I got some chanting in, even though my ride made me 15 minutes late. :P For those into liturgical music ( @fisharmor ?) here's where my director gets a lot of the music: http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/music/SeptemberB.htm

Service guide for today's liturgy is here: https://antiochianprodsa.blob.core.w...7%20LITART.pdf

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## TER

> Blessed feast day to y'all! The Nativity of the Theotokos is *officially* Saturday, but we Orthodox celebrate the liturgy tonight. I got some chanting in, even though my ride made me 15 minutes late. :P For those into liturgical music ( @fisharmor ?) here's where my director gets a lot of the music: http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/music/SeptemberB.htm
> 
> Service guide for today's liturgy is here: https://antiochianprodsa.blob.core.w...7%20LITART.pdf


Hi HB!  Your church had Divine Liturgy for the feast tonight, or the vespers service?  Typically the Divine Liturgy for the feast would be tomorrow on the Feast Day (or after midnight)...

The program guide says there was an artoklasia...

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## TER

Anyway, I wish you blessed Feast!  (thank you also for the link of the sheet music!  

It is truly meet to bless you, O Theotokos, ever-blessed and most pure Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, without defilement you gave birth to God the Word. True Theotokos we magnify you!

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## heavenlyboy34

> Hi HB!  Your church had Divine Liturgy for the feast tonight, or the vespers service?  Typically the Divine Liturgy for the feast would be tomorrow on the Feast Day (or after midnight)...
> 
> The program guide says there was an artoklasia...


Divine Liturgy. All we have going on Saturday is a Sunday School dance. Don't ask me why they do things this way-I'm just a lowly chanter. LOL  Maybe it's a new calendar thing? Would you believe we only had one chanter aside from myself tonight? Is outrage! #Greeklish Well, j/p.  We just give Subdn. Michael a hard time like that for lolz. 

btw, if you ever want to see the neumes for the music, check out the divine music project at stanthonymonastery.org  Except for specialized stuff the parish or archdiocese use, it's all there.

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## TER

> Divine Liturgy. All we have going on Saturday is a Sunday School dance. Don't ask me why they do things this way-I'm just a lowly chanter. LOL  Maybe it's a new calendar thing? Would you believe we only had one chanter aside from myself tonight? Is outrage! #Greeklish Well, j/p.  We just give Subdn. Michael a hard time like that for lolz.


It’s okay to do so of course if the Bishop has given his blessing (which I assume he did).  Many parishes for example celebrate the Divine Liturgy for Christmas the night before because of the unfortunate low turnout the next morning due to people’s busy schedules.  I am sure they had a good reason.  

By the prayers of the Theotokos, may God send down His grace and blessings to you my brother.

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## heavenlyboy34

Interesting day.  Took a shot at reading odes in Orthros. Interesting experience. It's beautiful literature. 
Sunday before the elevation of the Holy Cross; after-feast of the Nativity of the Theotokos; Synaxis of the ancestors of God, Joachim and Anna; Great-martyr Severian of Sebastia; Holy Fathers of the Third Ecumenical Council

Epistle Galatians 6:11-18 @TER this was so cute-they let a little girl read the epistle today. She tried to chant the last line in the traditional manner, but went flailing all about verbally.  *adorable*

Gospel John 3:13-17

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## fisharmor

Y'all know how Jordan Peterson says, don't let your kids do anything that makes you dislike them?
His point is, if you don't like them, other people won't like them, and then they'll grow into unlikable adults.

Well, we've got an archetype visiting our parish regularly.  Please pray for us.  Between my literal children and this metaphorical child, I'm not getting much out of church these days.

Well, that's not entirely true: we had a brief visit from Archbishop Melchesdick of the Palestinian Orthodox Churh of America on Wednesday (another "we have a metropolitan for a rector so cool stuff just happens here now" event), and I was able to keep the boy quiet enough to hear him for most of his talk.

Everyone else had questions about Palestine... my first question was "What do Palestinian Christians eat on Pascha?"


They apparently still personally slaughter a lamb and paint the doors of their houses.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Y'all know how Jordan Peterson says, don't let your kids do anything that makes you dislike them?
> His point is, if you don't like them, other people won't like them, and then they'll grow into unlikable adults.
> 
> Well, we've got an archetype visiting our parish regularly.  Please pray for us.  Between my literal children and this metaphorical child, I'm not getting much out of church these days.
> 
> Well, that's not entirely true: we had a brief visit from Archbishop Melchesdick of the Palestinian Orthodox Churh of America on Wednesday (another "we have a metropolitan for a rector so cool stuff just happens here now" event), and I was able to keep the boy quiet enough to hear him for most of his talk.
> 
> Everyone else had questions about Palestine... my first question was "What do Palestinian Christians eat on Pascha?"
> 
> ...


o kurwa! More Greek than the Greeks!  lol Do you go to Orthros? You might get some value out of that. It gives you a chance to listen to psalms, odes, and plain chant. If you pay attention, you wind up with a very good education in liturigics, history, and what the Church holds to be Truth by the end of the cycle. (also some standard psaltry readings, as you would expect)

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## heavenlyboy34

This week's homily is up

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## heavenlyboy34

Finally getting back to this.  This week's homily is up- 



Gospel-Luke 8:41-56 Epistle Galatians 6:11-18

22nd Sunday after Pentecost and seventy Sunday of Luke Martyrs Terence and Neonilla and their children; Venerable Bishop Stephen of Mar Sabbas monastery in Palestine; Athanasios I, patriarch of Constantinople; Venerable Job of Pochaev


As always, read odes during Orthros in addition to chant. Very rewarding and highly recommended. @fisharmor when you get to go back to church regularly, you might look into volunteering to read during Orthros. I hear some parishes allow parishioners to do it, though at mine the chanters do it.

Was asked to join the director to chant with the other chanters from the loft during communion in liturgy, which was a rewarding blessing.

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## fisharmor

Lol not sure how you got the impression I'm not a regular... I'm the warden of the parish and we are trying to build a whole church of our own, so at least 25pct of my life is church these days!
We have probably a quarter of the men in parish ordained as readers or higher, and ROCOR takes the position that if you have readers then no lay person should be chanting.
They keep asking me to be a reader and I keep saying no, because it's hard enough for the two of us to deal with the kids, I can't make her do it alone.

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## fisharmor

Btw how is everyone affected by the row between Patriarch Bartholemew and Moscow?  I am obviously on thr Moscow side...

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## heavenlyboy34

> Btw how is everyone affected by the row between Patriarch Bartholemew and Moscow?  I am obviously on thr Moscow side...


It's never come up in my parish (not even in casual chat at coffee hour, weirdly). Probably because we have our own share of drama with our patriarch being in Syria, plus the kidnapping of the nuns at St Thekkla a while back. I'm on the Moscow side myself.

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## heavenlyboy34

Sorry for the long absence.  #kurwa  Been super busy lately. After a busy nativity season, it seems like we've jumped immediately into Lent.   

Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee
The Hold Great-Martyr Theodore the Soldier ('Tyro')
Emperor Marician and Empress Pulcheria of Constantinople

(Tried my hand at Great Vespers Saturday as well for the first time, which was very interesting. I learned how to chant Odes.  )

Epistle Timothy 3:10-15, Gospel Luke 18:10-14

Our senior chanters were away this weekend, so I covered the bass baritone parts in Vespers (as well as Liturgy) to make it sound "full". Will be going as oft as possible in the future during Vesperal season.

One certainly does a lot of reading homework as a chanter!   I don't mind though, as I learn more about theology and scripture and history just by preparing for any given service.

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## heavenlyboy34

I accidentally muted myself for a month again? :O o kurwa! Lent does that to ya. A lot more liturgies and services and all a lot longer.  Tonite-my first Akathist to the Mother Of God. Really beautiful. Unlike the Complines earlier this week which were primarily OT readings, there was a lot of chant tonite.

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## heavenlyboy34

Presanctified Divine Liturgy tonite. Muh goodness, Lent is epic busy-ness!  Mostly reading psalms, not much chanting for me. That was done by the director solo.

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## heavenlyboy34

Can't believe it's been so LONG since I've been here. Well, I can. Everything is epic during Lent.   Not particularly happy with my chanting during Orthros, but did as best as I could, considering my director didn't get the music to me till Thursday. (Not enough time to practice for Saturday Vespers :P and just enough to get down the weekly variables for toady #kurwa #feelingirked ) 

Commemoration of our Righteous Mother Mary of Egypt. Apostles Aristarchos, Pudens, andTrophymos of the 70, Martyr Thomais of Alexandria, New-martyr Demetrios of the Peleponnesos

Epistle- Hebrews 9:11-14 Gospel Mark 10:32-45

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## heavenlyboy34

Lamentations this evening (Friday). Readings, so many readings. Psalms and whatnot like every night in Holy Week. Also some Epistle and Gospel. Chant, so much chant. Also some choral stuff for the first time this week.  Full procession by candlelight around the church with the bier.  I had to learn some arabic pronunciation for the procession music which was cool.  #linguistics Definitely interesting.

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## heavenlyboy34

From palm Sunday (4/21)

Epic busy day  #somuchmusic Epistle-Philippians 4:4-9 Gospel John 12:1-18

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## heavenlyboy34

I've been away from here a really long time  #kurwa Not intentional, but I keep getting busy and tired and forget to do this. #kurwa. :/  More laid back than Lent, but still pretty busy. Choir is on vacation nao, so the chanters and I do Orthros and Liturgy.


Sunday of the Holy Fathers of Fourth Ecumenical Council
Apostle Aquila of the Seventy; Joseph the Confessor, archbishop of Thessalonica; Peter, bishop of Crete; Venerable Enesimos of Magnesia and Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain

epistle Titus 3:8-15  Gospel: Matthew 5:14-19

Sad to say that my good friend Scotty (normally an usher during liturgy) suffered a cardiac event not long ago and is still in recovery.   He's on the mend, but I miss him lots.

*sorry for the holdup on regular updates @TER :/  #lifehappens

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## heavenlyboy34

O KURWA, SLIPPED AGAIN. :O Gospel Luke 6:31-36 Epistle Corinthians 4:6-15   15th Sunday after Pentecost and Second Sunday of Luke. Venerable Kyriakos the hermit of Palestine. Martyr Petronia and those with her in Palestine; Mother Mary the hermit of Palestine; Martyrs Gudelia, Casdous, Casdoa, Gargalus, Dada, and gobdelaas of Persia.

Don't have time to finish tonite, but hopefully I will Monday.

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## heavenlyboy34

CAN YOU BELIEVE HOW LONG IT'S BEEN SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE?   #thingsarebusy  Metropolitian visit toady.  #madness ensues  If I'm not tired I'll write moar in the morning.

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## JohnGalt1225

GREAT video series on the Gospel of St. John. Fr. Deacon Ezra Ham is a great, engaging speaker. I'm 20 videos in and can say so far it is one of the single best video series I have ever watched.

By the way, blessed Nativity Fast to all of my fellow Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ!

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## TER

> GREAT video series on the Gospel of St. John. Fr. Deacon Ezra Ham is a great, engaging speaker. I'm 20 videos in and can say so far it is one of the single best video series I have ever watched.
> 
> By the way, blessed Nativity Fast to all of my fellow Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ!


Likewise my brother. 

I will watch this!  Thank you!

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## TER

@JohnGalt1225

Very much enjoying the video series!  Thank you again!

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## heavenlyboy34



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## heavenlyboy34

My first day back "live" since teh silly quarantine started.  Don't like the mask and social distancing rules.   Miss being a chanter. Epistle Hebrews(9:1-7). Gospel Luke 10:38-42; 11:27-28) FINALLY able to get communion again!  Kyrie eleison! Hope @TER and my other brothers and sisters are making it through this nonsense as well as or better than I am.

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