# Lifestyles & Discussion > Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies >  Bitcoin going ballistic.

## unknown

In the last 48 hours, the price of the virtual currency has surged by 50% from $94 to $141 as the rate of expansion goes more than parabolic.

It was like $20 at the beginning of the year...

So the implication is that the "Fed" is intentionally causing a self-destructive bubble...

Well, we do know how they feel about competing currencies.

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## Zippyjuan

Now the Fed is manipulating BitCoins?  I better check their balance sheet and see how many they are buying.

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## brushfire

> Now the Fed is manipulating BitCoins?  I better check their balance sheet and see how many they are buying.


Rumor has it that they're using federal super computers to mine

/ninja

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## ronpaulfollower999

The last 12-24 hours has certainly been somewhat parabolic for Bitcoins, but there is absolutely no evidence that the Fed is buying Bitcoins. I wonder what exchange they're doing it through?

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## Zippyjuan

> Rumor has it that they're using federal super computers to mine
> 
> /ninja


Probably using this one (story is from April 1st but is NOT an April Fools article): 
http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/01/wo...ecommissioned/




> *World’s first petaflop supercomputer obsolete after 5 years, faces decommissioning*
> April 1, 2013 7:59 AM 
> 
> John Koetsier 
> 
> Five years ago it was the world’s fastest computer, running over a million billion calculations per second, but today Los Alamos Lab’s Roadrunner supercomputer is being decommissioned.
> 
> Just like your old desktop machine.
> 
> ...

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## Sam I am

Why would you imagine the average person would want to buy bitcoins right now?

1.  They're worried about their existing money, and are buying bitcoins to be more certain about their future

*OR* the fiat money is pushing them away

2.  They're observing this massive surge in bitcoin prices, and are seeing people make tons of money off of speculating on bitcoins, and they're trying to make a profit too.  

*OR* the bitcoin is pulling them in.


One of those options is super likely to result in a crash.

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## Romulus

It is dropping like a rock now!

someone or something is doing some obvious manipulation here.

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## Sam I am

> It is dropping like a rock now!


Pardon my asking, but how do you track this?

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## Romulus

preev.com

bitcoinity.org/markets

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## unknown

> preev.com
> 
> bitcoinity.org/markets


Theyre showing a $7 difference in the value...

Holy arbitrage.

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## kcchiefs6465

Best of luck to whoever is involved. I would get out now if I bought them for 3 dollars or 10 dollars, though. Things too good to be true, usually are.

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## FSP-Rebel

Introduction to Bitcoin

Forget most things you've heard.  People discover Bitcoin in a variety of ways, but usually pick up some sort of misconception like "Bitcoin gives free money to people with computers" or "in order to use Bitcoin I have to use a program that wastes electricity for nothing" along the way.  Here is a good summary to help you understand Bitcoin in general, by focusing on what Bitcoin is and what problem it solves.  These two things are not typically well explained on most websites, and it is difficult to appreciate just how effective a technology Bitcoin is until they are understood.

What Bitcoin is:  An agreement amongst a community of people to use 21 million secure mathematical tokens--"bitcoins"--as money, like traditional African and Asian societies used the money cowry.  Unlike the money cowry:
•there will never be more bitcoins
•they are impossible to counterfeit
•they can be divided into as small of pieces as you want
•and they can be transferred instantly across great distances via a digital connection such as the internet.

This is accomplished by the use of powerful cryptography many times stronger than that used by banks.  Instead of simply being "sent" coins have to be cryptographically signed over from one entity to another, essentially putting a lock and key on each token so that bitcoins can be securely backed up in multiple places, and so that copying doesn't increase the amount you own.

Because bitcoins are given their value by the community, they don't need to be accepted by anyone else or backed by any authority to succeed.  They are like a local currency except much, much more effective and local to the whole world.  As an example of how effective the community is at "backing" the bitcoin: on April 4th 2011 30,000 bitcoins were abruptly sold on the largest Bitcoin exchange, consuming nearly all "buy" offers on the order book and dropping the price by nearly 1/3.  But within a couple of days, the price on the exchange had fully rebounded and bitcoins were again trading at good volumes, with large "buy" offers slowly replacing the ones consumed by the trades.  The ability of such a small economy (there were only 5 million out of the total 21 million bitcoins circulating then, or about 3.75 million USD worth at then-current exchange rates) to absorb such a large sell-off without crashing shows that bitcoins were already working beautifully.

What problem Bitcoin solves:  Mathematically, the specific implementation of the bitcoin protocol solves the problem of "how to do all of the above without trusting anyone".  If that sounds amazing, it should!  Normally a local currency has to trust all kinds of people for it to be able to work.  So does a national currency.  And in both cases, that trust is often abused.  But with Bitcoin, there's no one person who can abuse the system.  Nobody can print more money, nobody can re-use the coins simply by making a copy, and nobody can use anyone else's coins without having direct access to their keys.  People who break its mathematical "rules" simply end up creating a whole different system incompatible with the first.  As long as these rules are followed by someone, the only way Bitcoin can fail is for everyone to stop using it.

This marvelous quality of not having to trust anyone is achieved in two ways.  First, through the use of cutting-edge cryptography.  Cryptography ensures that only the owner of the bitcoins has the authority to spend them.  The cryptography used in Bitcoin is so strong that all the world's online banking would be compromised before Bitcoin would be, and it can even be upgraded if that were to start to happen.  It's like if each banknote in your pocket had a 100-digit combination lock on it that couldn't be removed without destroying the bill itself.  Bitcoin is that secure.

But the second way of securing the system, called the blockchain, is where the real magic happens.  The blockchain is a single, authoritative record of confirmed transactions which is stored on the peer to peer Bitcoin network.  Even with top-notch digital encryption, if there was no central registry to show that certain bitcoins had already been "paid" to someone else, you could sign over the same coins to multiple people in what's called a double-spend attack, like writing cheques for more money than you have in your account.  Normally this is prevented by a central authority, the bank, who keeps track of all the cheques you write and makes sure they don't exceed the amount of money you have.  Even so, most people won't accept a cheque from you unless they really trust you, and the bank has to spend a lot of money physically protecting those central records, whether they are kept in a physical or digital form.  Not to mention, sometimes a bank employee can abuse their position of trust.  And, in traditional banking, the bank itself doesn't have to follow the rules you do--it can lend out more money than it actually has.

The blockchain fixes all these problems by creating a single master registry of the already-cryptographically-secured bitcoin transfers, verifying them and locking them down in a highly competitive market called mining.  In return for this critical role, the Bitcoin community rewards miners with a set amount of bitcoins per block, taken from the original limited quantity on a pre-agreed schedule.  As that original amount gradually runs out, this reward will be replaced by fees paid to prioritise one transaction over another--again in a highly competitive market to ensure the lowest possible cost.  The transactions are verified and locked in by the computational work of mining in a very special way so that no one else can change the official record of transactions without doing more computational work than the cumulative work of all miners across the whole network.

In conclusion:  All this mathematical technology may be a bit of a mouthful, but what it means in practice is that Bitcoin works just like cash.  Bitcoin transactions are intentionally irreversible--unlike credit cards or PayPal where chargebacks can invalidate a payment that has already been made.  And there are no middlemen.  Transactions are completed directly between the sender and the receiver via the peer to peer network.

Because of Bitcoin's intricate design, the network remains secure no matter where or how you process Bitcoin transactions.  Which is incredible--no one else has ever tried to create a system that worked this way!  All previous monetary systems have relied on trusting somebody, whether it was the king, town hall, the federal reserve, or banks.  Bitcoin doesn't.  It's guaranteed instead by the laws of mathematics, and that's why it has everyone from technologists to economists very excited.

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## brushfire

> Probably using this one (story is from April 1st but is NOT an April Fools article): 
> http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/01/wo...ecommissioned/


The fed pays their electric bill with printed currency 

A lot easier than converting t-bills.

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## Romulus

> Theyre showing a $7 difference in the value...
> 
> Holy arbitrage.


even more of a range....no consistency right now.

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## MRK

Down to $116 lol. That's a lot of volatility for something even if it has "only" around 1 billion market cap.

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## Zippyjuan

When the supply of something is limited, the price can be very volitile- it doesn't take much action to move it a lot.

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## ronpaulfollower999

Asks are going down, while bids are at an all time high of +11 million. Possibly another rally today.

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## Barrex

If Fed guys have 2 brain cells they would print few m(b)illions and buy all Bitcoins. Problem solved?

Seriously why not?

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## amonasro

The BTC community is being cautiously optimistic. 

The more I read about its adoption around the world, and the instability of banks/currencies, the more bullish I become.

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## amonasro

> If Fed guys have 2 brain cells they would print few m(b)illions and buy all Bitcoins. Problem solved?
> 
> Seriously why not?


This would drive the price through the roof, making many of the early adopters enormously wealthy. Besides this action being fairly transparent, many would would just buy back in once bitcoin bottoms out anyway, waiting for it to rise again or create another one to take its place. The idea is too good for people to get scared away. 

Hear that MasterCard? Helicopter Ben? That's the sound of inevitability.

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## dannno

> The BTC community is being cautiously optimistic.


You mean they aren't acting like Wall Street on internet stocks?!?

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## anaconda

Sunday 4/7/13 5:44 PM Last price = $164.51 per Mt.Gox.

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130228.html

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## Keith and stuff

> Sunday 4/7/13 5:44 PM Last price = $164.51 per Mt.Gox.
> 
> https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130228.html


It is $169.74 right now. http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html

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## enter`name`here

My god where does it end? I sold half my holdings at 94... D'oh!  I am a believer in btc, recently convinced my mother to start looking into it, but this is madness right?  ... Right?

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## newbitech

> My god where does it end? I sold half my holdings at 94... D'oh!  I am a believer in btc, recently convinced my mother to start looking into it, but this is madness right?  ... Right?


Yeah pretty crazy.  It's looking to blow thru 180 in probably the next hour.  I think the price is gonna be bumping up along that large stack around 200 by morning.  If it chews thru that 200 and breaks it, we'll be talking about price rises in terms of 10's instead of 1's.  

I might be looking to grab $100 bucks worth before it breaks 200.  After it breaks 200, its gonna be a lot riskier to get in IMO.

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## well_met_sir

> My god where does it end? I sold half my holdings at 94... D'oh!  I am a believer in btc, recently convinced my mother to start looking into it, but this is madness right?  ... Right?


It "ends" at $0 or $10000+.  The prices now do not make sense and thus they are temporary.  If bitcoin succeeds each one will be incredibly valuable.  If bitcoin fails then each one will be worthless.  Until we know whether bitcoin has succeeded or failed expect high volatility, mostly upwards.

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## ronpaulfollower999

I wouldn't be surprised if it hit 200 by tomorrow morning. Where it goes from there, who knows?

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## gwax23

Wow I shoulda bought then. Is buying now worth it? How much higher could is seriously go?

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## Petar

> Wow I shoulda bought then. Is buying now worth it? How much higher could is seriously go?


It's still early, almost no one accepts them. 

This can go to the moon.

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## kpitcher

> It's still early, almost no one accepts them. 
> 
> This can go to the moon.


I agree that this is totally uncharted territory. This evening I did convert some BTC I have to gold and silver to cover the last of my original investment. Never had a Gold Buffalo before so looking forward to having that in the coin collection. Very simple and hassle free ordering process.

The rest of my bitcoins will stay in the system. I'm in this for the duration.

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## oyarde

> It's still early, almost no one accepts them. 
> 
> This can go to the moon.


That appears to be true.

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## newbitech

> Wow I shoulda bought then. Is buying now worth it? How much higher could is seriously go?


image if you had 2k to spend and you bought 10 btc's at $200.  There's 21 million maximum btc's and 3billion USD's in circulation.  if BTC replaces USD at 100% BTC worth 150k.

So my question is, how you gonna get that 1.5 million in your pocket?

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## tmg19103

> image if you had 2k to spend and you bought 10 btc's at $200.  There's 21 million maximum btc's and 3billion USD's in circulation.  if BTC replaces USD at 100% BTC worth 150k.
> 
> So my question is, how you gonna get that 1.5 million in your pocket?


The moment BTC looks like a threat to the USD (well before it replaces it) the Fed and the U.S. government will shut it down. There is still an upside to BTC. The question is how much? The huge upside has to do with Europe and sovereign defaults. If they start happening, BTC explodes and the U.S. gov. shuts it down. Then it becomes a matter of timing on when to sell before they are made illegal.

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## idiom

Oooooo! Capital Gains Tax!

Stupidest tax ever.

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## RickyJ

Bit Coins are for the uneducated that think private fiat money is better than government backed private fiat money. Gold and Silver will remain real money long after dollars and bit coins are only mentioned in history books.

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## RickyJ

> It's still early, almost no one accepts them. 
> 
> This can go to the moon.


What kind of logic are you using to say something like that? Almost no one accepts them so it could go to the moon?

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## anaconda

$177.59 at approx. 11:30 PM 4/7/13 PST

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## newbitech

> The moment BTC looks like a threat to the USD (well before it replaces it) the Fed and the U.S. government will shut it down. There is still an upside to BTC. The question is how much? The huge upside has to do with Europe and sovereign defaults. If they start happening, BTC explodes and the U.S. gov. shuts it down. *Then it becomes a matter of timing on when to sell before they are made illegal.*


Yes, but I would think you'd need to sell before it is shut down, which means you'd need to sell before it does what it was designed to do.  So the moment just before it starts to be recognized as a serious competitor to the USD is the time to sell.  

So this risk people are taking, they must be betting that its not gonna get shut down as it begins to compete with the USD.  I still wonder how anyone who has say like a couple thousands of these is gonna get their money back if the keep holding on to it.  

It's not like when it drops in value because it's been regulated to the point of being useless, or when its been declared unlawful to use these in trade as currency that the price is ever going to come back up.  

So the higher the price the higher the risk of the value becoming 0.  

I think I'd have to bail on it once I doubled my money.  Then I'd take half the doubling and get back in  again.  Rinse and repeat.

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## Barrex

So if gold is about to be banned you would want to sell it before is made illegal?

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## Petar

> What kind of logic are you using to say something like that? Almost no one accepts them so it could go to the moon?


No, im saying its still early because they are hardly used. 

The fact that they may become widely adopted in the future, due to the unique advantages, is the reason that they may become extremely valuable in the future.

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## anaconda

> So if gold is about to be banned you would want to sell it before is made illegal?


Excellent outside the box thinking.

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## anaconda

1:52 a.m PST   4-08-13    $182.65

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## newbitech

> So if gold is about to be banned you would want to sell it before is made illegal?


No because I might be able to use it to replace my teeth.

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## newbitech

> Excellent outside the box thinking.


actually it was a pretty lazy argument for what was being commented on.

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## presence

EPIC

186.5

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## IDefendThePlatform

> EPIC
> 
> 186.5


I'm wondering if this is the start of the institutional investor boom after some of the recent reports on Bloomberg and others.

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## presence

> I'm wondering if this is the start of the institutional investor boom after some of the recent reports on Bloomberg and others.


Its dawning.

20 Million coins.  

7 Billion of us.

Buy ONE for freedom.

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## NinjaPirate

I hate bitcoin threads. I keep kicking myself everytime I read one. *sigh*

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## presence

> I hate bitcoin threads. I keep kicking myself everytime I read one. *sigh*


<<<< BUY ONE COIN >>>>

It doesn't matter when.  

It will ONLY deflate.

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## presence

192






or


20 million coins

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## Peace&Freedom

> Its dawning.
> 
> 20 Million coins.  
> 
> 7 Billion of us.
> 
> Buy ONE for freedom.


QFT. The banksters don't control BTC, so there's no team embedded in the currency to pull tricks to deflate its value, as with gold and silver. The explosion in Bitcoin valuation is the same we should be seeing in precious metals. BTC is ripping the mask off the devaluation of government currency faster than expected, by either the mass public OR the elites.

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## jtap

> <<<< BUY ONE COIN >>>>
> 
> It doesn't matter when.  
> 
> It will ONLY deflate.


The thing that has kept me from buying one or any is that I usually research the hell out of stuff like that before I get into it. If someone *TRUSTWORTHY* (read: reputable rpf member) had a how-to that detailed what to do to buy a bitcoin that streamlined the process, I would have a hard time saying no.

*please forgive me if this does exist, maybe in a post somewhere and I just missed it and many thanks to someone if they can point me to one (even if outside of rpf, as long as you can vouch for the instructions you are recommending)

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## presence

> The thing that has kept me from buying one or any is that I usually research the hell out of stuff like that before I get into it. If someone *TRUSTWORTHY* (read: reputable rpf member) had a how-to that detailed what to do to buy a bitcoin that streamlined the process, I would have a hard time saying no.
> 
> *please forgive me if this does exist, maybe in a post somewhere and I just missed it and many thanks to someone if they can point me to one (even if outside of rpf, as long as you can vouch for the instructions you are recommending)



1)
STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING
POUR YOURSELF A CUP OF COFFEE

2)
GO TO MTGOX AND CREATE A WALLET
GO TO BITINSTANT AND CREATE AN ACCOUNT

3)
USE BITINSTANT ACCOUNT TO CREATE A BUY BTC AT WALMART VIA ZIPZAP MONEY GRAM TO YOUR MTGOX WALLET
PAY 4% and $3.95 in fees

4)
GO TO WALMART, GIVE CASH

5)
GO TO MTGOX AND SEE WHAT PRICE YOU GOT IN AT (alternatively you can just put cash in your account and then place a buy order later)

6)
WATCH YOUR MONEY DOUBLE IN 10 DAYS







Last:

 BTC 193.75000000

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## amonasro

> 1)
> STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING
> POUR YOURSELF A CUP OF COFFEE
> 
> 2)
> GO TO MTGOX AND CREATE A WALLET
> GO TO BITINSTANT AND CREATE AN ACCOUNT
> 
> 3)
> ...


This is what I did except replace Walmart with CVS. Just pick up the little red Moneygram phone, input some info and pay the cashier. It's a little more expensive than a bank transfer from other major exchanges, but considering the 15,000 user queue wait at mt.gox...

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## anaconda

> actually it was a pretty lazy argument for what was being commented on.


I thought it was insightful and provocative on a couple of different levels.

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## evilfunnystuff

The story about bitpay having a 5 million dollar month for march is probly gonna bring more upward turbulance, fasten your seatbelts folks this might be a bumpy ride.

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## evilfunnystuff

> This is what I did except replace Walmart with CVS. Just pick up the little red Moneygram phone, input some info and pay the cashier. It's a little more expensive than a bank transfer from other major exchanges, but considering the 15,000 user queue wait at mt.gox...


Walmarts nice cuz the person at the counter types in all your info instead of having to use the red phone, much more convienient.

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## newbitech

> I thought it was insightful and provocative on a couple of different levels.


i can see the temptation to compare bitcoin with gold in a government confiscation scenario.  Difference being, they actually have to take the gold from my hands at least giving me a chance to hide it or defend myself. 

Some people will manage to hide their gold in that event.  

When the government comes for bitcoin, it's one fell swoop.  You'll have no chance to back out, sell it off, defend it, bury it, send it to the bottom of the lake.  When it's gone, it really is gone, vanished, poof.  Right back where it came from. 

The government can't really "ban" gold and shut it down like they can bitcoin.  

They can try and confiscate, but then they have to pile it up somewhere and that becomes a target in the ensuing revolution that would occur.   

If the world government decided to pull the plug on Mt. Gox for instance and release a UN statement backed by ICANN, IMF, World Bank etc etc, that bitcoins are recognized as international money laundering and fuel terrorist activities, that bitcoin doesn't get confiscated it really does go to the moon and beyond. 

There will be no way to rebel against it besides transitioning into another electronic scheme similar to btc.

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## Petar

Banning bitcoin sounds about as easy as banning the internet. 

Maybe China could pull it off within their own borders, but I don't readily see it as being currently possible in the West.

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## dannno

> The thing that has kept me from buying one or any is that I usually research the hell out of stuff like that before I get into it. If someone *TRUSTWORTHY* (read: reputable rpf member) had a how-to that detailed what to do to buy a bitcoin that streamlined the process, I would have a hard time saying no.
> 
> *please forgive me if this does exist, maybe in a post somewhere and I just missed it and many thanks to someone if they can point me to one (even if outside of rpf, as long as you can vouch for the instructions you are recommending)


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...nfused-newbies

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## newbitech

> Banning bitcoin sounds about as easy as banning the internet. 
> 
> Maybe China could pull it off within their own borders, but I don't readily see it as being currently possible in the West.


Not really, there are few key hubs that have driven the craze.  Mt. Gox being one.  If the world bank decided they wanted to shut it down at the behest of the US central bank, ICANN would turn off the domain pointer.   That would just about disassemble the conversion infrastructure.  Then, a few well placed announcements from the different government on how bitcoins are used to launder money to terrorist, and anyone found using bitcoins will be considered a potential terrorist.\

Overnight, bitcoin would become useless.  No chance to recover for any of the hopeful honest folks who sought refuge from a debased currency.  

Not necessarily saying its gonna happen tomorrow, but the fast btc replaces the USD and other world currencies the greater that risk becomes.

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## muh_roads

> Not really, there are few key hubs that have driven the craze.  Mt. Gox being one.  If the world bank decided they wanted to shut it down at the behest of the US central bank, ICANN would turn off the domain pointer.   That would just about disassemble the conversion infrastructure.  Then, a few well placed announcements from the different government on how bitcoins are used to launder money to terrorist, and anyone found using bitcoins will be considered a potential terrorist.\
> 
> Overnight, bitcoin would become useless.  No chance to recover for any of the hopeful honest folks who sought refuge from a debased currency.  
> 
> Not necessarily saying its gonna happen tomorrow, but the fast btc replaces the USD and other world currencies the greater that risk becomes.


Tor browser would get a lot more popular.

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## muh_roads

> i can see the temptation to compare bitcoin with gold in a government confiscation scenario.  Difference being, they actually have to take the gold from my hands at least giving me a chance to hide it or defend myself. 
> 
> Some people will manage to hide their gold in that event.  
> 
> When the government comes for bitcoin, it's one fell swoop.  You'll have no chance to back out, sell it off, defend it, bury it, send it to the bottom of the lake.  When it's gone, it really is gone, vanished, poof.  Right back where it came from. 
> 
> The government can't really "ban" gold and shut it down like they can bitcoin.  
> 
> They can try and confiscate, but then they have to pile it up somewhere and that becomes a target in the ensuing revolution that would occur.   
> ...


How do you shut down a persons wallet whose private keys never touch online?  They can effect the price but they can't eliminate it.

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## newbitech

> Tor browser would get a lot more popular.


Why?  I thought bitcoin was all you needed to have anonymous transactions.  So you want to add yet ANOTHER layer of software on top of these transactions?  

Wonder what it will do to the adoption rate?  You gonna need 600 million facebook users that give a wooden nickel about online privacy to pick up tor.  good luck.  

I find it remarkable that so many are buying in to this pricing environment.   I think the odds of being technically scammed with this technology are extremely high and are growing on a daily basis.  

I tend to look at the USD/Bitcoin pair not as a testament to the strength or value of BTC.  In fact I think its quite the opposite.  People putting $200 up for 1 BTC really do not value their USD at all and just shows how weak the USD is as a currency to have something like amazingly difficult to solve hashes being worth $5,000.

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## newbitech

> How do you shut down a persons wallet whose private keys never touch online?  They can effect the price but they can't eliminate it.


Shut down the person.

and, I imagine people will continue to find ways to trade without using USD.  In fact, I would bet that the USD economy is a lot smaller than the non USD economy, maybe fractions.  

Bitcoin is but a fraction of the USD economy.   

It's doing good, I like it, just don't buy the hype.  

If it replaces the USD, excellent.  But I'll still be worth just as much BTC in 20 years as I am today.  And my skills, ability, and ingenuity will still bring me the same standard of living whether I trade in USD or BTC or matches.

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## Tod

Has Jim Rogers made any statements about Bitcoin yet?

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## presence

> _If it replaces the USD_, excellent.  But I'll still be worth just as much BTC in 20 years as I am today.  And my skills, ability, and ingenuity will still bring me the same standard of living whether I trade in USD or BTC or matches.




Nope, that's just not right.  Every day that bitcoin _becomes more accepted_ your work becomes worth less BTC.  Further, every BTC in hand (saved) becomes worth more.

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## dannno

> Why?  I thought bitcoin was all you needed to have anonymous transactions.  So you want to add yet ANOTHER layer of software on top of these transactions?



You don't need tor now and you are right that it would be difficult to get more people to adopt tor now simply because of bitcoin.. but if bitcoin gets big and then people who already own it must adopt tor, you will see a lot more people using it.

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## muh_roads

> Why?  I thought bitcoin was all you needed to have anonymous transactions.  So you want to add yet ANOTHER layer of software on top of these transactions?


No I'm saying if government and ICANN cracks down on exchanges/online wallets, Bitcoin can always exist in the Tor browser.  I bet some governments will embrace BTC, and ridicule the US for being so retarded about it...if they ever try to heavily regulate.

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## Petar

I still don't think that the US government or the UN is going to be able to just arbitrarily outlaw BTC. 

People can cast aspersions about "funding terrorism" all they want, but once exchanges are recording transactions over $10k, then the government is going to have a very difficult time expanding their control beyond that. 

Besides, what would happen to the value of BTC on the black-market if they even tried?

What would the price of cocaine be if it was not outlawed?

I just don't see any practical way for Western governments to stop BTC at this point. 

I'm pretty sure that it would require some form of totalitarian martial-law right now.

Also, the more people use BTC, then the harder it will become for governments to crack down.

So buy BTC to help preserve liberty!

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## muh_roads

> Shut down the person.
> 
> and, I imagine people will continue to find ways to trade without using USD.  In fact, I would bet that the USD economy is a lot smaller than the non USD economy, maybe fractions.  
> 
> Bitcoin is but a fraction of the USD economy.   
> 
> It's doing good, I like it, just don't buy the hype.  
> 
> If it replaces the USD, excellent.  But I'll still be worth just as much BTC in 20 years as I am today.  And my skills, ability, and ingenuity will still bring me the same standard of living whether I trade in USD or BTC or matches.


Going after every person is about as realistic as trying to go after all the pot smokers.  And then even if you were successful with such a massive campaign, new users would appear again anyway.  BTC is just a tiny fraction of the USD economy, you're right.  So why waste resources trying to eliminate a bunch of rich nerds when they are in such a minority?  Even if it goes to $100K for each coin that is only 1% of the global forex market.

Litecoin trades for $3-6 now because a service similar to SR on Tor started accepting them.  They can take away our freedoms but can never take away our internets.  And for that value will always remain.

I just don't care where the price goes.  Many use these things for valid reasons and will always continue to do so for the same reasons they do now.

----------


## muh_roads

...

----------


## muh_roads

> You don't need tor now and you are right that it would be difficult to get more people to adopt tor now simply because of bitcoin.. but if bitcoin gets big and then people who already own it must adopt tor, you will see a lot more people using it.


Yep, pretty much what dannno said.

I would welcome this if government tried to ban with their ineffective pen signatures.  Tor needs a lot more people lending their server power and I think this would happen if more had a need for it.  Tor is incredibly easy to use with the pre-configured browser bundles they offer, it is just slow right now.

----------


## newbitech

> Nope, that's just not right.  Every day that bitcoin _becomes more accepted_ your work becomes worth less BTC.  Further, every BTC in hand (saved) becomes worth more.


I think you missed the point.  My value is already established.  BTC value is not.

----------


## newbitech

> You don't need tor now and you are right that it would be difficult to get more people to adopt tor now simply because of bitcoin.. but if bitcoin gets big and then people who already own it must adopt tor, you will see a lot more people using it.


I don't think tho that tor would save BTC value in the case of the global government coming down on BTC as an illegal means to launder money and shutting down the public exchanges.  I think the liquidity of BTC would seize up almost immediately after such events and the BTC would be relegated to black markets.  So even having TOR would not get round the distinct possibility that the only people accepting BTC would be the traditional black market "entrepreneur".  I don't think that online retailers are going to cozy up to purchase by proxy any time soon.  

But, I agree.  Should government start racking people for simply finding another currency and bringing it out in to the open, it would lead more people to communicate by proxy.  I think that's already happening too, but mostly in places where that is the only means of communicating truth in the face of tyrannical regimes. 

I think bitcoin has value and I think it has already been a success.  Just don't buy into the hype where its becoming more obvious we are dealing with hysterical ideas of getting rich with only the effort of getting to the spigot first.  I don't see that as a good sign, and I don't find much integrity in it.

----------


## dannno

> I think bitcoin has value and I think it has already been a success.  Just don't buy into the hype where its becoming more obvious we are dealing with hysterical ideas of getting rich with only the effort of getting to the spigot first.  I don't see that as a good sign, and I don't find much integrity in it.


It's not about getting rich as much as it is about taking down the current financial paradigm. 

But if the people who bought into bitcoin first do get rich, which very well may happen, they deserve every penny...err Satoshi of it.. Why? Because everybody who is buying bitcoin today and making purchases is helping invest in companies and infrastructure that will serve all of the users in the future. Without them (aka us), this wouldn't be possible.

----------


## newbitech

> I still don't think that the US government or the UN is going to be able to just arbitrarily outlaw BTC. 
> 
> People can cast aspersions about "funding terrorism" all they want, but once exchanges are recording transactions over $10k, then the government is going to have a very difficult time expanding their control beyond that. 
> 
> Besides, what would happen to the value of BTC on the black-market if they even tried?
> 
> What would the price of cocaine be if it was not outlawed?
> 
> I just don't see any practical way for Western governments to stop BTC at this point. 
> ...


I am not sure which government you have grown up living under, but the government I observe can pretty much do what it wants when it wants.  The legal structure is already in place for cracking down on BTC.

I really see BTC as calling the bluff.  That will last until it gets popular enough to become a threat.  Then you will have your revolution.  It will be up to the governments of the world to decide if it will be bloody and turn the tables.  If BTC is not bluffing, and the people have the appetite for defiance, I would hope that you have cashed in your BTC by then.  

The price is gonna flatten out.  It's not going to go over a few hundred bucks if that.  We'll the rise of many more competing currencies.

----------


## anaconda

The thought just occurred to me that the Feds might very much like to analyze the Bitcoin market for a significant period of time before shutting it down. Wouldn't you if you were the feds? They might very much be interested in modeling some growth rates in forming future strategies to combat alternate currencies. They might even like to test an array of strategies and therefore start with the least disruptive. Just a thought.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> i can see the temptation to compare bitcoin with gold in a government confiscation scenario.  Difference being, they actually have to take the gold from my hands at least giving me a chance to hide it or defend myself. 
> 
> Some people will manage to hide their gold in that event.  
> 
> When the government comes for bitcoin, it's one fell swoop.  You'll have no chance to back out, sell it off, defend it, bury it, send it to the bottom of the lake.  When it's gone, it really is gone, vanished, poof.  Right back where it came from. 
> 
> The government can't really "ban" gold and shut it down like they can bitcoin.  
> 
> They can try and confiscate, but then they have to pile it up somewhere and that becomes a target in the ensuing revolution that would occur.   
> ...


You are REALLY over-simplifying things.  It doesn't matter what the scenario is.  Confiscation is not instantaneous just because it happens via the internet and electricity.  There's no central target that they can shut down and instantaneously get rid of the whole system.  It would take a lot of work to find every single person who owns bitcoin, just like it would take work to hunt down every owner of gold.  There is time to hide your bitcoin.  It's not "one fell swoop".  That's a gross oversimplification.

The government can't really "ban" bitcoin either.  How do they shut it down?  It's a p2p network and there is no central authority.  They might target businesses, but they can also do that with gold.  In fact, they already have.  It's already illegal to use gold as money.  Everything you just said about gold applies to bitcoin.  The ensuing revolution... all of it.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I am not sure which government you have grown up living under, but the government I observe can pretty much do what it wants when it wants.  The legal structure is already in place for cracking down on BTC.
> 
> I really see BTC as calling the bluff.  That will last until it gets popular enough to become a threat.  Then you will have your revolution.  It will be up to the governments of the world to decide if it will be bloody and turn the tables.  If BTC is not bluffing, and the people have the appetite for defiance, I would hope that you have cashed in your BTC by then.  
> 
> The price is gonna flatten out.  It's not going to go over a few hundred bucks if that.  We'll the rise of many more competing currencies.


I doubt it.  I don't see any other digital currencies posing a real threat to bitcoin without looking like a copycat.  If it goes to a few hundred bucks, I don't see why it couldn't go further.  It can penetrate the economy to such an extent that it is worth hundreds of dollars per BTC, then I would venture to say that there is still growth possible, and as we've seen, it won't take much for BTC to go through the roof.  

And no, the government cannot do whatever it wants when it wants.  That's why they still have to put on the facade of being legitimate and doing things for the public good.  That's why we have all this propaganda.  That's also why they haven't shut down the internet yet.  So, no, the government cannot do "what it wants when it wants."

----------


## newbitech

they will try.

----------


## anaconda

> 3)
> USE BITINSTANT ACCOUNT TO CREATE A BUY BTC AT WALMART VIA ZIPZAP MONEY GRAM TO YOUR MTGOX WALLET
> PAY 4% and $3.95 in fees


Zip Zap keeps rejecting me. No matter what amount I put in it comes back with "sorry there is a limit of such-and-such" where "such-and-such" is exactly the amount I entered at Bitinstant. Any ideas? Thanks.

----------


## muh_roads

> The thought just occurred to me that the Feds might very much like to analyze the Bitcoin market for a significant period of time before shutting it down. Wouldn't you if you were the feds? They might very much be interested in modeling some growth rates in forming future strategies to combat alternate currencies. They might even like to test an array of strategies and therefore start with the least disruptive. Just a thought.


ugh, I wish people would quit saying "shutting it down"...lol  Really driving me crazy, heh.

You can not shut down something that operates on millions of PC's everywhere.  And you can't intercept what you can't decrypt.

A bitcoin payment is not the size of an HD movie. There are just so many bits per byte.  They use the word "bit" for a reason.  If an HD movie is a pale of water, then a btc transaction is an atom inside a water droplet.  It moves too fast and there are too many bits in an ocean of data that moves for all sorts of reasons every single second of the day.

----------


## presence

> Zip Zap keeps rejecting me. No matter what amount I put in it comes back with "sorry there is a limit of such-and-such" where "such-and-such" is exactly the amount I entered at Bitinstant. Any ideas? Thanks.


Start a new account.  Begin again.  Or use contact services.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

> Zip Zap keeps rejecting me. No matter what amount I put in it comes back with "sorry there is a limit of such-and-such" where "such-and-such" is exactly the amount I entered at Bitinstant. Any ideas? Thanks.


The limit is $500 at once and outside of the 3.99 APR that bitsintant gets, zipzap charges $3.95 so your max order can be $496.05. I got a buddy of mine to get in on the BTC today using zipzap and everything went kosher.

----------


## jclay2

This time is Different....This time is different....Yes We Can....Yes we can. 

Seriously people. This is going to blow up soon. I don't know when, because I can't project the endpoint of insanity. However, these prices are moving completely insane and the continued bubble only makes people want to join/talk about it more. Good luck. 100-300 percent monthly returns and the price is moving 15% within minutes to hours is nuts. Right now, bitcoin has a market cap of 2 billion. 

When 99% of the people are in this for the speculative gains, something is going to give. Good luck trading these rollercoasters, the 70% minimum 1 day drop is coming. Watch out and please only put your starbucks money into this max. You are not going to become a rich millionaire owning a piece of worthless 1's and 0's.

----------


## CyberTootie

> ...the 70% minimum 1 day drop is coming.


I had one bitcoin lying around that I found the wallet for and sold at $143 thinking the same sort of thing. But it's up the $190+ now. I still think it will happen, the big question is when.

----------


## jclay2

> I had one bitcoin lying around that I found the wallet for and sold at $143 thinking the same sort of thing. But it's up the $190+ now. I still think it will happen, the big question is when.



No one knows. But from nearly all the threads and forums referencing bitcoins, it is clear to me that competing currency is not even on the minds of the bitcoin bulls. The absurd belief in continued EXPONENTIAL price increases is the absolute mainstay of almost every person I have read (maybe I have a biased sample).

----------


## newbitech

pretty strong resistance right here at the 190 ish level.

2 strong volume moves of 15% down off the all times highs.  It's testing 200 again.  Nice bull flag forming up again in the 4 hour tho, and daily volume remains very bullish with volume increase with price moves up and decreasing with price moves down.

One thing I really like about the BTC exchanges is that I think the technicals work really well here.  If you notice, the daily has presented a bullish flag for the last 3 weeks in a row.  The market is being propelled on momentum and I think if you want to try and time the correction which is most assuredly coming, just watch the volume signal.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

What does it mean there will never be more  Bitcoins? And why isn't mining profitable?

----------


## kpitcher

> What does it mean there will never be more  Bitcoins? And why isn't mining profitable?


The bitcoin system is designed to reward people handling transactions with new coins via mining. The system has 11 million coins right now, the rest will be passed out over the next century. But the system goes to 8 decimal places and could even be expanded further so it has room for small transaction if the value grows too high.

There are many bitcoin mining calculators. If you plug in the cost of the current equipment, electricity, and payback based on overall network processing power, it's not profitable. If you want to buy new equipment and high end graphics cards to bitcoin mine it won't break even. Further the next generation of specially designed equipment made solely for mining is starting to hit. This will make graphic cards unattractive to mine as they'll be far too slow. That said if you have some very high end AMD graphics cards put them to use and grab some coins. It's worthwhile if you already have equipment costs paid for.

----------


## anaconda

> 5)
> GO TO MTGOX AND SEE WHAT PRICE YOU GOT IN AT (alternatively you can just put cash in your account and then place a buy order later)


2 issues:

1) I made two separate Moneygram transactions in succession at Walmart a few hours ago, each of slightly different amounts. Even though the email confirmations from Bitinstant have a plethora of various numbers listed, I am at a complete loss to confirm which transaction ties to the two transactions listed in my Blockchain wallet. I cannot see any matching cross reference. I can't tell which is which.

2) If I click on "My Transactions" on Blockchain and then click on the green number of bitcoins purchased for a particular transaction, it says (in the top box) "Value at time of transaction" and a dollar amount. In every case the "Value at time of transaction" is about $8 to $12 less than the amount I paid less the fee. I don't understand this. Seems the "Value at time of transaction" should be exactly equal to the amount paid less the 3.99% fee, regardless of how many BTC it managed to buy you in the deal.

Thanks for any ideas/insights.

P.S. I didn't utilize Mt.Gox

----------


## presence

> 2 issues:
> 
> 1) I made two separate Moneygram transactions in succession at Walmart a few hours ago, each of slightly different amounts. Even though the email confirmations from Bitinstant have a plethora of various numbers listed, I am at a complete loss to confirm which transaction ties to the two transactions listed in my Blockchain wallet. I cannot see any matching cross reference. I can't tell which is which.
> 
> 2) If I click on "My Transactions" on Blockchain and then click on the green number of bitcoins purchased for a particular transaction, it says (in the top box) "Value at time of transaction" and a dollar amount. In every case the "Value at time of transaction" is about $8 to $12 less than the amount I paid less the fee. I don't understand this. Seems the "Value at time of transaction" should be exactly equal to the amount paid less the 3.99% fee, regardless of how many BTC it managed to buy you in the deal.
> 
> Thanks for any ideas/insights.
> 
> P.S. I didn't utilize Mt.Gox



Do the math and see if the BTC you own x the purchase price you paid match the actual $ value at time of transaction.  There was some bug w/ blockchain wallets that was incorrectly listing that number, from my understanding the BTC you own is correct relative to the price you paid, the field is just reporting something wrong.... though it was my understanding this bug was corrected.

https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet/issues/7
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146263.0

It may be related to "mining ledger forks" which are self resolving as I understand.    Log out, log back in... and see if changes.



Do that math and get back to us.


Glad you're holding BTC for FREEDOM!

$210 LAST

----------


## jtap

> 1)
> STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING
> POUR YOURSELF A CUP OF COFFEE
> 
> 2)
> GO TO MTGOX AND CREATE A WALLET
> GO TO BITINSTANT AND CREATE AN ACCOUNT
> 
> 3)
> ...


-Created account on mtgox
-Went to bitinstant, don't see where to create an account

bitinstant shows that they want your name and dob. That doesn't seem so anonymous and if it's not anonymous, couldn't I send money via paypal or bank account and not have to leave my computer?

-do you have to give personal information at walmart also?

-what exactly do you do differently to "...put cash in your account and then place a buy order later"?


Also, they wanted me to "verify" my mtgox account. I doubt I would need to trade over the limits of the level 0 account:




> Being “level 0” has the following limits:
> 
> *Traditional Currencies*
> Daily withdrawal limit (24hrs): 1,000 USD (or equivalent) 
> Monthly withdrawal limit: 10,000 USD (or equivalent) 
> 
> *Bitcoin*
> Daily Bitcoin withdrawal limit (24hrs): 100 BTC
> Monthly Bitcoin withdrawal limit: none
> ...


I see no benefit to verifying, plus then your account isn't anonymous. However, according to my questions above I don't see how to anonymously get money into the mtgox wallet.

----------


## presence

> -Created account on mtgox
> -Went to bitinstant, don't see where to create an account
> 
> bitinstant shows that they want your name and dob. That doesn't seem so anonymous and if it's not anonymous, couldn't I send money via paypal or bank account and not have to leave my computer?
> 
> -do you have to give personal information at walmart also?
> 
> -what exactly do you do differently to "...put cash in your account and then place a buy order later"?



Worry about getting your coins first.  Anonymity later... that's not a 2 minute discussion.  Bitcoin is NOT anonymous any moreso than cash.  You can conduct anonymous cash transactions and you can conduct anonymous bitcoin transactions.  You can also conduct receipted cash transactions at Walmart and live feed video gets sent to facial recognition machines in the Utah data center whether you buy bitcoin or condoms. 

On buying later, I'm actually not sure that's possible through bitinstant... I think your transaction goes through when your walmart funds clear.  I'll get back to you if I learn more.  

KISS.  I let bitinstant drop to my mtgox wallet at spot price.  From there I can move them to my local machine.  I try not to blur the situation with my feelings about transaction fees anonymity  etc in this type of market.



gotta run... off to buy more coins

----------


## newbitech

> -Created account on mtgox
> -Went to bitinstant, don't see where to create an account
> 
> bitinstant shows that they want your name and dob. That doesn't seem so anonymous and if it's not anonymous, couldn't I send money via paypal or bank account and not have to leave my computer?
> 
> -do you have to give personal information at walmart also?
> 
> -what exactly do you do differently to "...put cash in your account and then place a buy order later"?
> 
> ...



i stopped short there too.

I started looking locally for BTC, but either people are too far away, or they are like 25% markup over "spot".

So I will just settle for mining my .0005 BTC a day and see where that leads

----------


## presence

> i stopped short there too.
> 
> I started looking locally for BTC, but either people are too far away, or they are like 25% markup over "spot".
> 
> So I will just settle for mining my .0005 BTC a day and see where that leads


.0005 BTC / day power bill ?



hmmmm... 

solar bitcoins?

----------


## jtap

> Worry about getting your coins first.  Anonymity later... that's not a 2 minute discussion.  Bitcoin is NOT anonymous any moreso than cash.  You can conduct anonymous cash transactions and you can conduct anonymous bitcoin transactions.  You can also conduct receipted cash transactions at Walmart and live feed video gets sent to facial recognition machines in the Utah data center.  
> 
> On buying later, I'm actually not sure that's possible through bitinstant... I think your transaction goes through when your walmart funds clear.  I'll get back to you if I learn more.  
> 
> KISS.  I let bitinstant drop to my mtgox wallet at spot price.  From there I can move them to my local machine.  I try not to blur the situation with my feelings about transaction fees anonymity  etc in this type of market.
> 
> 
> 
> gotta run... off to buy more coins


I agree about just getting in at this point without worry of anonymity. That's why I was trying to inquire about a faster completely online method where I could do it now without having to go to the bank, withdraw money, then go to the store and deal with that.

I'm looking for the way to use either paypal or debit or checking acct/routing number. Anyone that can point me to that method? It would be appreciated.

Edit: If I am going to have to go with this more footwork-intensive method, is there a particular way that charges the least fees?


Apparently you can't use paypal because:
*PayPal's user agreement prohibits the use of their payment network for buying digital currency.

I would think one of these exchanges could use it as a go-between though.

Looks like I will have to run some errands at lunch

----------


## newbitech

> .0005 BTC / day power bill ?
> 
> 
> 
> hmmmm... 
> 
> solar bitcoins?


Meh, numbers too small for me to even worry about.  I did the math on it for my scenario, I figure I will just keep adding .0005 BTC to mt gox every week.  I'll sell it on the run ups to fund my account so I can buy the dips.  

It's a spark.   Lowest possible risk I can see getting into this extremely risky asset class.   We'll see if it builds itself up, like everything else I have done that has been successful.   

Not trying to be rich, just trying to build an engine.

----------


## juleswin

Bitcoin @ $223 now. When is it ever going to stop? If I had just go in last night, I would have gotten a 10% ish gain while I slept

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Unbelievable. Bids are up to $16 million.

----------


## newbitech

So I decided to run $20 thru the system to get an idea of the experience.  

I started out with my Mt. Gox acct.  

From there, I was led to bitinstant.

I created the transaction slip only providing email, first and last name, and telephone (all can be fake).

Total cost 23.95.

Went to CVS to use the moneygram red phone.  

They wanted all my details, I gave them all fake info.

The first time the transaction failed. 

Second time, I gave them only first and last name.  Success.

The guy at the counter was a little confused.  

His system wanted the amount to pay WITHOUT the transaction fee. 

I kept wanting to put in $20.  

I made sure he put in $23.95.

The amount I am supposed to receive in my Mt. Gox acct. is USD 19.202

I also added .01 BTC from my wallet that I have been using to accumulate to the Mt. Gox acct.  Using bitcoin-qt with armory on top, I was forced to pay .001 transaction fee.  10% of what I wanted to move. 

So far, not too thrilled with all the scraping off the top that is going on.  Just gives me a feeling that people are trying to turn a quick buck.  But, whatever, don't mind the fees for a service.

Mt. Gox is USD 0.006 per trade.  Not bad.

Edit, Oh, and no idea if what will show up in my mt. gox will be USD or BTC.  I guess we'll find out here shortly.

----------


## amonasro

Is this a worldwide vote of no confidence against central bank deception and theft?

Are we finally waking up to their funding of wars and stealing people's savings?

Hear that Bernanke? That's the sound of inevitability.

----------


## newbitech

quick update, so the cash made it to the account, I'll be poised to buy the retest of the $200 level that is coming later this afternoon and tonight.  

Still waiting for my BTC to hit my mt gox acct.  I'd like to be able to sell it at this high point right here

----------


## kpitcher

> So I decided to run $20 thru the system to get an idea of the experience.  
> 
> I started out with my Mt. Gox acct.  
> 
> From there, I was led to bitinstant.
> 
> I created the transaction slip only providing email, first and last name, and telephone (all can be fake).
> 
> Total cost 23.95.
> ...


Sorry to hear you had some annoyances. Right now the near instant change from USD to BTC is a pain. You can run it through dwolla or other ACH draw locations but that takes a few days. I've never used the CVS option of funding mtgox but I have used western union and any instant send money has a high overhead. It's one of the reasons bitcoin is so nice to stop that sort of thing. I know some people have created USD / BTC ATMs. There are services to match up local people willing to trade cash for bitcoin. I've never used that but somehow meeting at a public place, pulling out smartphones and exchanging cash seems rather amusing. 

That said the switching MtGox to a US company for US/CA customers may speed up processing and convenience once that is finalized in a few months. 

More people are leaving bitcoins in the system after they buy something in bitcoins. One tech company is even paying employees in bitcoins and they use it to buy beer and sushi.

http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/h...-with-bitcoin/

----------


## newbitech

> Sorry to hear you had some annoyances. Right now the near instant change from USD to BTC is a pain. You can run it through dwolla or other ACH draw locations but that takes a few days. I've never used the CVS option of funding mtgox but I have used western union and any instant send money has a high overhead. It's one of the reasons bitcoin is so nice to stop that sort of thing. I know some people have created USD / BTC ATMs. There are services to match up local people willing to trade cash for bitcoin. I've never used that but somehow meeting at a public place, pulling out smartphones and exchanging cash seems rather amusing. 
> 
> That said the switching MtGox to a US company for US/CA customers may speed up processing and convenience once that is finalized in a few months. 
> 
> More people are leaving bitcoins in the system after they buy something in bitcoins. One tech company is even paying employees in bitcoins and they use it to buy beer and sushi.
> 
> http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/h...-with-bitcoin/


yeah, now Mt. Gox with db access error, and not confirming my open orders.  eesshh..  I wonder if they have a trade api somewhere..


ahh yess 

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API/HTTP

----------


## Keith and stuff

If you don't understand Bitcoins, the leading people talking about it and helping people in the Northeast are the Free State Bitcoin Consortium people. They created an ATM that they are bringing to events from the ISFLC in DC to Liberty Forum in Nashua. They also had meet ups in Boston (many), NYC, Philly (twice), Manchester, Keene and so on. They own several bitcoin companies. Many of them have been in the bitcoin world since 2011. https://www.facebook.com/groups/freestatebitcoin

----------


## newbitech

> If you don't understand Bitcoins, the leading people talking about it and helping people in the Northeast are the Free State Bitcoin Consortium people. They created an ATM that they are bringing to events from the ISFLC in DC to Liberty Forum in Nashua. They also had meet ups in Boston (many), NYC, Philly (twice), Manchester, Keene and so on. They own several bitcoin companies. Many of them have been in the bitcoin world since 2011. https://www.facebook.com/groups/freestatebitcoin



i was wondering who the pushers and junkies were

----------


## newbitech

yeah, look at that inverted bid ask spread.  Mt. Gox is under attack right now,

the exchange is under some severe manipulation to say the least!

----------


## muh_roads

Gox previously allowed people to put in orders without having the funds yet.  They have since changed this silly ability.  So now there is more bandwidth room for their system to work faster.  I think we're seeing that reflected today.

----------


## amonasro

> yeah, look at that inverted bid ask spread.  Mt. Gox is under attack right now,
> 
> the exchange is under some severe manipulation to say the least!


Welcome to the crazy world of bitcoin trading, lol!!

----------


## newbitech

The connection to wss://socketio.mtgox.com/socket.io/1/websocket/2K71kdq-I2-mb1Fzky7J?blabblablab was interrupted while the page was loading.

----------


## anaconda

Latest trade per Mt.Gox =  $237.99 at 11:32 A.M. PST

Well, at least the 200 mark is no longer a psychological barrier. Which will make 300 a subsequently lesser barrier I would think, as it would represent a smaller percentage increase and also a less novel experience.

----------


## newbitech

sell off coming up.  bout time.  I've got some lower trendline and support buy orders in, buy the dip baby!  yeah!

----------


## jtap

> So I decided to run $20 thru the system to get an idea of the experience.  
> 
> I started out with my Mt. Gox acct.  
> 
> From there, I was led to bitinstant.
> 
> I created the transaction slip only providing email, first and last name, and telephone (all can be fake).
> 
> Total cost 23.95.
> ...



omg. Just had a similar experience. I don't even want to relive it and try to type it all up.

TIP: IGNORE the cashier when they ask for the amount without the fee. Make them pull it up some other way. They don't need to know that number and there is a very high chance that will show up as the total then it won't work. Twice this chick messed it all up as the customers piled up. I went to another CVS.


End result: Money is sitting in my Mt. Gox acct as USD and it seems I have to decide when to execute a buy to get BTC. Now seems like a good time.




> Your order has been queued for execution

----------


## Seraphim

239$. 

To be honest this could be a canary in the coal mine sort of event. baed on policy for the last 5 years, this was more expected in PM's. But the blatant control over PM's by big banks and govt's is pretty intense. Bitcoin has no such pressure.

----------


## anaconda

> Do the math and see if the BTC you own x the purchase price you paid match the actual $ value at time of transaction.


Well, that's part of my confusion. I was assuming that the price per BTC was the amount I paid less fees divided by # BTC. And, as I mentioned, this is _not equal_ to the Blockchain "Value at time of transaction." It has been my understanding that if we're using Bitinstant that we don't get an actual buy or sell quote. I dunno. I'm a newbie and have too much on my plate right now to really dig deep.

Also, what about the other issue of not knowing which transaction is which?

Thanks by the way.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> The bitcoin system is designed to reward people handling transactions with new coins via mining. The system has 11 million coins right now, the rest will be passed out over the next century. But the system goes to 8 decimal places and could even be expanded further so it has room for small transaction if the value grows too high.
> 
> There are many bitcoin mining calculators. If you plug in the cost of the current equipment, electricity, and payback based on overall network processing power, it's not profitable. If you want to buy new equipment and high end graphics cards to bitcoin mine it won't break even. Further the next generation of specially designed equipment made solely for mining is starting to hit. This will make graphic cards unattractive to mine as they'll be far too slow. That said if you have some very high end AMD graphics cards put them to use and grab some coins. It's worthwhile if you already have equipment costs paid for.



Why is equipment cost so important? Are you saying you can't make more than a few thousand dollars mining? How many can you mine in a day?  What if your energy cost to mine is zero?

----------


## newbitech

> omg. Just had a similar experience. I don't even want to relive it and try to type it all up.
> 
> TIP: IGNORE the cashier when they ask for the amount without the fee. Make them pull it up some other way. They don't need to know that number and there is a very high chance that will show up as the total then it won't work. Twice this chick messed it all up as the customers piled up. I went to another CVS.
> 
> 
> End result: Money is sitting in my Mt. Gox acct as USD and it seems I have to decide when to execute a buy to get BTC. Now seems like a good time.


yeah.  I did everything I could to not share my information with the money gram people.  "charm" I believe her name was second guessed me when I told her my address was P.O. Box 12345, st pete, FL.  

She's like, is that the number on your ID?  I was like sure, want to see it?  Same thing with my phone number.  First I was like, do you want to ask the clerk?  He looks busy?  I don't know the phone number at CVS....

Only think that needed to match up was the name I used tied to the bitinstant account number.  

Not bad at all.

I am watching the volume on the bounce off this dip.  I sold my scant at 237.00 got a buy back in at 227, seems to be a strong support there, but if there is crap volume on any bounce back or if selling picks up here in the next few, I'll pull that back to 217 or so.

My 20 is sitting on 212 for the time being.   We'll se.

----------


## jtap

> yeah.  I did everything I could to not share my information with the money gram people.  "charm" I believe her name was second guessed me when I told her my address was P.O. Box 12345, st pete, FL.  
> 
> She's like, is that the number on your ID?  I was like sure, want to see it?  Same thing with my phone number.  First I was like, do you want to ask the clerk?  He looks busy?  I don't know the phone number at CVS....
> 
> Only think that needed to match up was the name I used tied to the bitinstant account number.  
> 
> Not bad at all.
> 
> I am watching the volume on the bounce off this dip.  I sold my scant at 237.00 got a buy back in at 227, seems to be a strong support there, but if there is crap volume on any bounce back or if selling picks up here in the next few, I'll pull that back to 217 or so.
> ...



haha. what are the chances. I talked to Charm also. As well as Peter, Janelle and someone whose name I couldn't make out (sounded like Stowie). I was kind of sad I didn't get the same person twice.

----------


## kpitcher

> Why is equipment cost so important? Are you saying you can't make more than a few thousand dollars mining? How many can you mine in a day?  What if your energy cost to mine is zero?


The hard cost for startup right now is either the highest end AMD cards or some specialized FPGA cards that don't mine as fast but use less power. Right around the corner are custom built chips for bitcoins. As far as I know 300 ASIC units have shipped from a chinese company with an unknown timeline of when the next limited run will hit. Butterfly labs, a US company, was to have their product by end of 2012 and still hasn't shipped. (Maybe by May, maybe not). So when the graphics cards are no longer worthwhile to use is anyone's guess. Personally I feel around May or June.

Your profit as a miner is based on the total amount of computational power. Right now the total bitcoin network is around the 60 trillion calculations a second. A single card will do upwards of 1000 Million calculations. Once the ASIC chips hit in volume the total network power will double or triple very fast and keep on climbing.

With all that said here is a calculator to help figure things out. 

http://blockchained.com/profit/index.php

If you put in 1300 you'd need roughly 100 days to break even as is. That assumes the value says the same and difficulty stays the same. Difficulty has historically always climbed.

Now if electricity is free that reduces the cost drastically as a GPU is a power hungry device. If you already own a high end gaming machine then there's no reason not to put it to work.

----------


## newbitech

> haha. what are the chances. I talked to Charm also. As well as Peter, Janelle and someone whose name I couldn't make out (sounded like Stowie). I was kind of sad I didn't get the same person twice.


sux about Mt. Gox web platfrom, takes too long to send quotes and offers.  I missed the dip I wanted to get.  I need to go ahead and set up a desktop interface I supposed. 

I wonder if I can sell it for a 10ths..

----------


## anaconda

What does this mean?

*We're sorry, but the daily order limit has been exceeded. Please try your order again tomorrow. If you have questions, please email us at support@zipzapinc.com.*

My only order today. I did pay for one last night at 9:30 PST which would have been today EST (not sure if that has anything whatsoever to do with this). This whole system is pretty rough around the edges at this point.

----------


## newbitech

> WTF does this mean?
> 
> *We're sorry, but the daily order limit has been exceeded. Please try your order again tomorrow. If you have questions, please email us at support@zipzapinc.com.*


did you email them and ask them that?

----------


## anaconda

> did you email them and ask them that?


Yep. Waiting for reply. Got robo confirmation email.

----------


## newbitech

> Yep. Waiting for reply. Got robo confirmation email.


uuhg, good luck.  hopefully you used an experimental amount and don't get to tied up in your time.

----------


## jtap

I hope everyone is prepared to lose money. Now that I have some BTC, I expect it to drop. My luck is THAT good.

----------


## newbitech

> I hope everyone is prepared to lose money. Now that I have some BTC, I expect it to drop. My luck is THAT good.


was thinking the same.  ive jumped in and out a couple times, lost 50 cents to transaction fees... but that;s what i needed to gauge.  seems there is an impasse right now.  looking for the price to do a dosey doe to test support.  Someone came in and sold off a bunch a bit a go.  

I need it to drop down another 10-20 buck before i feel a good entry.

----------


## presence

> I agree about just getting in at this point without worry of anonymity. That's why I was trying to inquire about a faster completely online method where I could do it now without having to go to the bank, withdraw money, then go to the store and deal with that.
> 
> I'm looking for the way to use either paypal or debit or checking acct/routing number. Anyone that can point me to that method? It would be appreciated.



The magic is NOW.

Refer to first step in my 5 step method.  Really no shame in following the mtgox - bitinstant - moneygram method.  You needn't even buy the moneygram at the location you picked on the screen.

Last 232.8 High 240




https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Buying_bitcoins

----------


## presence

> What does this mean?
> 
> *We're sorry, but the daily order limit has been exceeded. Please try your order again tomorrow. If you have questions, please email us at support@zipzapinc.com.*
> 
> My only order today. I did pay for one last night at 9:30 PST which would have been today EST (not sure if that has anything whatsoever to do with this). This whole system is pretty rough around the edges at this point.


The services are definitely buggy and dealing with traffic they haven't invested in the capacity to handle yet.  Its the magic in the air.  Browser back arrow... try it again.  Refresh... try it again.  New account, try it again... Jump hoops and jiggle.  Squeeky wheel gets oiled.  Think of it like the super market before Christmas with a checkout line starting in the freezer section.

----------


## kpitcher

> I hope everyone is prepared to lose money. Now that I have some BTC, I expect it to drop. My luck is THAT good.


Good to have a name to use when the cursing starts...

----------


## jtap

> The magic is NOW.
> 
> Refer to first step in my 5 step method.  Really no shame in following the mtgox - bitinstant - moneygram method.  *You needn't even buy the moneygram at the location you picked on the screen.*
> 
> Last 232.8 High 240
> 
> 
> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Buying_bitcoins


That is a good point. I went to a different CVS to get the transaction done after I had issues (that were basically the cashier) at the first one. Almost had issues at the 2nd one but had become wise as to how to instruct them.

Next time I will go to Walmart but I had other errands and the two CVS stores were on the way.

----------


## presence

> Well, that's part of my confusion. I was assuming that the price per BTC was the amount I paid less fees divided by # BTC. And, as I mentioned, this is _not equal_ to the Blockchain "Value at time of transaction." It has been my understanding that if we're using Bitinstant that we don't get an actual buy or sell quote. I dunno. I'm a newbie and have too much on my plate right now to really dig deep.
> 
> Also, what about the other issue of not knowing which transaction is which?
> 
> Thanks by the way.



No worries.  I'm a newbie too.  I misspoke earlier about when the transaction actually takes place.  Now that I just bought more... you pay your moneygram... then there is a cash balance at mtgox, then you buy btc with that cash balance.   For me... 45 minutes to civilization that meant I wanted in at 205, but got in at 232 after the return trip.



I'm a newbie in the sense of the nuts and bolts of buying coins... I should have gotten in when I was first learning about this and became aware of the potential.  I decided to invest at 30 and was flat broke... I got in at 117.   I was a mathematics major in college and I've projected the price out many times in many ways since the price was less than a buck... nothing that I'd stand behind... but every projection ends with the price with more zeros behind it than the current 2.  I really thought I was off or crazy until it hit 25-30... then I realized its on.  For real.   I don't think it matters right now whether you get in during the "right dip" or $20 or $30 up or down... I see zeros, I'm not sure how many after the current price.  1 at least, plausibly 2, a third is game over status quo.  

I'm absolutely in to rally to 2000 before I dump a coin.  I'll put another zero behind it before I dump the next.


Bitcoin is still cherry in so many ways; she's just getting her first taste of big money... and a fresh slew of non-technical moneygram users.


Bitcoin used to be worth $0.0025
Then it was worth $0.025
Then it was worth $0.25
Then it was worth $2.50
Then it was worth $25


Now its approaching $250

All of this happened in less than 3 years.

Ask people on the steet.... still... 
Nobody knows about it.

----------


## newbitech

> No worries.  I'm a newbie too.  I misspoke earlier about when the transaction actually takes place.  Now that I just bought more... you pay your moneygram... then there is a cash balance at mtgox, then you buy btc with that cash balance.   For me... 45 minutes to civilization that meant I wanted in at 205, but got in at 232 after the return trip.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie in the sense of the nuts and bolts of buying coins... I should have gotten in when I was first learning about this and became aware of the potential.  I decided to invest at 30 and was flat broke... I got in at 117.   I was a mathematics major in college and I've projected the price out many times in many ways since the price was less than a buck... nothing that I'd stand behind... but every projection ends with the price with more zeros behind it than the current 2.  I really thought I was off or crazy until it hit 25-30... then I realized its on.  For real.   I don't think it matters right now whether you get in during the "right dip" or $20 or $30 up or down... I see zeros, I'm not sure how many after the current price.  1 at least, plausibly 2, a third is game over status quo.  
> 
> I'm absolutely in to rally to 2000 before I dump a coin.  I'll put another zero behind it before I dump the next.
> 
> 
> Bitcoin is still cherry in so many ways; she's just getting her first taste of big money.


probably should preach a little more discipline than that.


This


Won't last..

----------


## amonasro

I've just had bitinstant send it directly to my bitcoin wallet. I was reading too many horror stories of massive delays crediting $$ to mt.gox. All mine have been fulfilled within minutes once I pay the Moneygram. Actually one took an hour, but it was at 5 o'clock on a weekday.  

If you do use CVS, make the cashier enter the entire amount (3.95 fee and all) you are paying or else it won't work.

----------


## amonasro

> probably should preach a little more discipline than that.
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> Won't last..


One could argue that bitcoin is more of a paradigm shift in the world economy that must reach market saturation before leveling off. In that regard you can't necessarily analyze it as a traditional currency or commodity, even though it sure looks like one and in many ways, acts like one. 

If cryptocurrencies becomes the money of the Internet, just think of the possibilities, especially for developing, poor or oppressed countries. The market is potentially mind-bogglingly huge.

----------


## presence

> probably should preach a little more discipline than that.
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> Won't last..




No it won't last, but when it plateaus it will be orders of magnitude more than 25.   The question is the number of orders not the number of points above or below current.

I suspect 2 orders of magnitude over 25; $2500 spot price is not at all unreasonable long position... about 2% of the world economy.  I could see equal reason for it to stop at 250 as for it to continue to 25,000 (25k would be about a 1/4 of the global economy)

----------


## newbitech

> One could argue that bitcoin *internet technology* is more of a paradigm shift in the world economy that must reach market saturation before leveling off. In that regard you can't necessarily analyze it as a traditional currency or commodity *technology*, even though it sure looks like one and in many ways, acts like one. 
> 
> If cryptocurrencies *internet technology* becomes the money of the Internet *productivity tool of the world*, just think of the possibilities, especially for developing, poor or oppressed countries. The market is potentially mind-bogglingly huge.


yes, I don't disagree with any of what you said.  Then, there is this.

----------


## newbitech

> No it won't last, but when it plateaus it will be orders of magnitude more than 25.   The question is the number of orders not the number of points above or below current.
> 
> I suspect 2 orders of magnitude over 25; $2500 spot price is not at all unreasonable long position... about 2% of the world economy.  I could see equal reason for it to stop at 250 as for it to continue to 25,000 (25k would be about a 1/4 of the global economy)


I understand the math behind it.   What ever the next defacto world currency is will obey the same pattern more or less.  

Why bTC tho?  For all the reasons I have heard it is so great as a replacement, in actual practice, I haven't really seen it live up to those reasons yet.

----------


## jtap

> I've just had bitinstant send it directly to my bitcoin wallet. I was reading too many horror stories of massive delays crediting $$ to mt.gox. All mine have been fulfilled within minutes once I pay the Moneygram. Actually one took an hour, but it was at 5 o'clock on a weekday.  
> 
> *If you do use CVS, make the cashier enter the entire amount (3.95 fee and all) you are paying or else it won't work.*


Yep. that was my "TIP" earlier. For some reason they want to ask the price without fee and that messes it all up.

----------


## newbitech

> Yep. that was my "TIP" earlier. For some reason they want to ask the price without fee and that messes it all up.


their computer screen asks for the price without the fee.  I think probably zipZap pays the money gram fee out of the 3.95.

----------


## evilfunnystuff

Before I post these charts, I would advise not putting in anything you cant afford to loose. 

Also, I would really enjoy a nice steady period.. 

...but this surge may last a while as you can see from the discussion here even some relatively tech savy people are havin a hard time figuring out how to buy them, cause not many places will let you use a credit card or paypal, wanting you to wait weeks for verified account status to do bank transfers. Add in the bitinstants, coinbases, etc seem to be having periods where they are occasionally not taking orders having a hard time keeping up with the pace. That tells me alot of people that want in are still just figuring it out. 

If you go to bitcoincharts.com/charts select all data (goes back to 2010) click draw and you get this.



Click the logscale box the click draw again and you get this.



Add in this news, that over 5 million dollars worth of goods and services were bought and payed for using bitcoins from major/estableshed online sellers via Bitpay's payment processing service in March...
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitpay-pr...ses-silk-road/

Like I said, I would like to see some stability myself, but I think we may still be going up for a while.

----------


## presence

> I understand the math behind it.   What ever the next defacto world currency is will obey the same pattern more or less.  
> 
> Why bTC tho?  For all the reasons I have heard it is so great as a replacement, in actual practice, I haven't really seen it live up to those reasons yet.


Why facebook?

Why google?

Why apple?

Why microsoft?



Its hard to say... but bitcoin is on that type of market lead in new technology path.  Will it overtake the dollar?  who knows... will it overtake a few struggling european countries... I'm banking on it.  Will it take a sizeable chunk of web purchases?  I hope so. 

 I suspect our children will give their cyrpocurrency wallet number, not their credit card number when ordering online.











Yes... it sucks as a "currency" right now... it is in every way acting like a newly discovered commodity until it becomes saturated.  By then markets and market tools should be more stream lined and plenty of people will have plenty of bitcoin they're looking to spend in those markets.  The project development forum at bitcointalk is an exciting read; as far as it doesn't go over my head.

----------


## opal

If I'm understanding this correctly - there is no way to buy bitcoin without actually showing up at some establishment somewhere - cannot do it from a home computer, right?

----------


## evilfunnystuff

> If I'm understanding this correctly - there is no way to buy bitcoin without actually showing up at some establishment somewhere - cannot do it from a home computer, right?


There are ways, one being Dwolla to MtGox but you need to mail in papers and wait ages to get verified so you can do bank transfers that reportedly take days to get to MtGox. Others can take even more effort from the user like buying from anonymous users in irc chat rooms etc. 

CoinLab is supposed to make things easier, but their already past scheduled partnership with MtGox doesn't seem to have taken effect yet.

----------


## dannno

> If I'm understanding this correctly - there is no way to buy bitcoin without actually showing up at some establishment somewhere - cannot do it from a home computer, right?


There are a lot of ways to get bitcoin, some are more anonymous than others.

If you can find somebody close to you on localbitcoin.com then you can go buy bitcoin with cash from them, anonymously. 

Apparently at bitinstant you can go to walmart and try to fill out the wrong info, but that may or may not work as it did not for them for whatever reason (I haven't used bitinstant so I'm not up on all the details).

The other thing you could do is open an online store and sell things to people for bitcoin.

----------


## dannno

> CoinLab is supposed to make things easier, but their already past scheduled partnership with MtGox doesn't seem to have taken effect yet.


I think you mean Coinbase? I had success with them, but it was a bank transfer (verifies bank account then buys at current price - you get the coins when it clears)

----------


## amonasro

Right now, yes, unless you want to wait a few days to a week. I had my bank account verified on Coinbase within two days but they have massive back orders to purchase new bitcoins. Mt.gox has over 15,000 verifications pending... Bitfloor accepts wire transfers and cash deposits at BofA... not sure about the others.

----------


## evilfunnystuff

> I think you mean Coinbase? I had success with them, but it was a bank transfer (verifies bank account then buys at current price - you get the coins when it clears)


Nope CoinLab http://coinlab.com/

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130228.html



> Mt.Gox & Coinlab Announce Strategic Partnership to Bolster American Presence, Celebrate $1/2 Billion per Year in Annualized Trades
> 
> 		TOKYO, JAPAN - February 28, 2013 
> 
> 		Dear customers,
> 
> 		Mt. Gox, the owner of the world’s dominant Bitcoin exchange, announced today that they have selected CoinLab as their exclusive partner in the United States and Canada. As of March 29, all US and Canadian customers currently transacting with Mt.Gox will transact through CoinLab, Inc.
> 
> 		"This move will bring local product delivery, liquidity and customer service to a huge group of Bitcoin fanatics," said CEO of CoinLab, Peter Vessenes. "We're excited by, and awed at the responsibility we have caring for our over 100,000 new customers and over a half-billion dollars in annualized trade volume."
> ...

----------


## presence

> If I'm understanding this correctly - there is no way to buy bitcoin without actually showing up at some establishment somewhere - cannot do it from a home computer, right?




Coinbase
Bitcoin OTC, 
Bitcoinary 


One of those three will get you directly from bank account to coins.

also through mtgox your options:




> These are the methods supported by the AurumXchange and not Mt.Gox  directly.  AurumXchange is an official funding partner of MtGox. This  service
> enables Bitcoin traders to rapidly fund their accounts using a variety
> of electronic currencies, as well as Wire Transfers and SEPA transfers.
> 
> AurumXchange currently support the following funding methods:
> 
> E-Currencies:
> 
> Liberty Reserve (Instant funding - NO FEE)PerfectMoney (INSTANT funding - 1% FEE)Pecunix (INSTANT funding - NO FEE)HD-Money (INSTANT funding - NO FEE)VouchX Vouchers (INSTANT funding - NO FEE)CosmicPay (INSTANT funding - NO FEE)C-Gold (INSTANT funding - 5% FEE)SolidTrustPay (WITHIN 1 to 2 business days - 8% FEE)
> ...




But yes... If you want to REALLY MAKE $$ on bitcoin... become the guy that takes secure credit and debit card numbers and turns them into coins and vice versa on a big scale for cheap.

Its coming.   The services are still weak, beta, expensive, and lacking.  But there was never a billion or two dollars in bitcoin in circulation to warrant such improvements.  Now there is.  The market tools will soon follow.

----------


## evilfunnystuff

> But yes... If you want to REALLY MAKE $$ on bitcoin... become the guy that takes secure credit and debit card numbers and turns them into coins and vice versa on a big scale for cheap.


Just watch out for credit card companies reversing the charges, alot of people have been burned this way.

----------


## schiffheadbaby

> Just watch out for credit card companies reversing the charges, alot of people have been burned this way.


Is the selling process as easy or hard as the purchase process?  Would love to hear from someone who has sold some coins.  Kinda might be sketchy to meet a stranger if you had 50 bitcoins or what do you do if you live in a remote place?

----------


## dannno

> Is the selling process as easy or hard as the purchase process?  Would love to hear from someone who has sold some coins.  Kinda might be sketchy to meet a stranger if you had 50 bitcoins or what do you do if you live in a remote place?


Meet up at Starbucks or Burger King or something.

----------


## presence

> Is the selling process as easy or hard as the purchase process?  Would love to hear from someone who has sold some coins.  Kinda might be sketchy to meet a stranger if you had 50 bitcoins or what do you do if you live in a remote place?


https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20...s-and-Deposits

----------


## evilfunnystuff

> Is the selling process as easy or hard as the purchase process?  Would love to hear from someone who has sold some coins.  Kinda might be sketchy to meet a stranger if you had 50 bitcoins or what do you do if you live in a remote place?


Lots of ways, one is use your btc to buy gold. 

http://coinabul.com/index.php/gold-b...bullion-5.html
Pamp Suisse - 1 ounce bar
Availability: In stock
฿7.3122

----------


## kpitcher

> Lots of ways, one is use your btc to buy gold. 
> 
> http://coinabul.com/index.php/gold-b...bullion-5.html
> Pamp Suisse - 1 ounce bar
> Availability: In stock
> ฿7.3122


Personally I think this is much cooler

http://www.amagimetals.com/10-x-1-10...aul-round.html

1/10 OZ Gold Ron Paul Round
฿0.8196 

Or 

 1 oz Silver Ron Paul round in proof-like condition and 0.9999 fine silver.

Availability: In stock
฿0.1478

Plain 1oz silver bar is  ฿0.1285  there right now.

----------


## presence

Litecoin is going parabolic, up 600% in past 10 days

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/per...d&market=btc-e

----------


## dannno

> Litecoin is going parabolic, up 600% in past 10 days
> 
> http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/per...d&market=btc-e


Ya I got some in the $1.50 range

----------


## jclay2

Bump for another petition to please screw your heads on people. This move is parabolic among parabolic moves. Given the awesome mania right now, expect the crash to be unbelievable. We are talking poof its gone, you just lost 50% in an hour 80-90% in less than a day (and maybe more). Even just a couple of days of stability could cause a crash. At the first sense that the hyperdrive move is over, people will sell the crap out of bitcoin.

----------


## anaconda

> I've just had bitinstant send it directly to my bitcoin wallet. I was reading too many horror stories of massive delays crediting $$ to mt.gox. All mine have been fulfilled within minutes once I pay the Moneygram. Actually one took an hour, but it was at 5 o'clock on a weekday.  
> 
> If you do use CVS, make the cashier enter the entire amount (3.95 fee and all) you are paying or else it won't work.


Walmart in San Leandro, CA charged me NO fee for the Moneygram yesterday.

----------


## presence

> Ya I got some in the $1.50 range


rally on 4/2 or dip at 4/6 ??


Fail for not sending me a PM to buy!

----------


## presence

> Just watch out for credit card companies reversing the charges, alot of people have been burned this way.



Right... thats the magic.  That's why it "can't" be done.  Crypto transactions are permanent and now, cc not so much, legal legal, blah blah blah... same issue with connecting via paypal.  

That isn't to say one couldn't provide a secure fully bonded p2p cc to btc service for the right price, with the right member ID package for processing no nonsense instant cc transactions to and from mtgox and btc-e.

----------


## jtap

So, what is the method to get your BTC out of your Mt. Gox wallet in a hurry and back into USD? Seems like that might be useful to know for the future.

At this point I would only know to buy gold or silver coins from a vendor online to get my money back out.

----------


## presence

> So, what is the method to get your BTC out of your Mt. Gox wallet in a hurry and back into USD? Seems like that might be useful to know for the future.
> 
> At this point I would only know to buy gold or silver coins from a vendor online to get my money back out.


1st... "in a hurry" convert your BTC to USD on the mtgox exchange, now breath deep and bank on it traditionally if you need your money cash in hand now.







> *Mt.Gox makes your withdrawals more convenient by updating its Withdraw Center
> 
>                                                                            TOKYO, JAPAN - April 11, 2012*
> 
> Mt.Gox today  unveils its improved Withdraw Center designed to facilitate and speed-up  your withdrawals![/h]        Mt.Gox users will now be able to enter their own financial account details for withdrawal and save them for future use.
>       Once you fill the form with your personal information it will appear  in your withdraw selection drop down menu and let you submit a withdraw  request by simply filling the amount you want to withdraw.
> 
> 
>       Have more than one preferred withdrawal method or own more than one  bank account? Simply add them one at a time until all your preferred  methods are listed in the withdrawal methods drop down.
> ...


https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120418.html 



2 click "funding options"

3 click "withdraw funds"

4 use your pull down menu or click "add withdraw method" and work your way through the wizard.

----------


## cubical

If you are not selling your bitcoins now, you are a terrible investor. This would be the first time in history a chart like this plateaus and remains high.

----------


## newbitech

> If you are not selling your bitcoins now, you are a terrible investor. This would be the first time in history a chart like this plateaus and remains high.


I agree, there is just no good investment entry point, and trying to play the 10-15 minutes swings with the horrible mt. gox api is a great way to lose your ass.

It seems the strategy to invest at this time is, buy at what ever price and hold your breath that it goes up!

I've got buy orders sitting in at the various sell off levels from the last couple days, but the price has just left me in the dust since I funded my account. 

So I am betting on a correction, that's about the only thing we know for sure will happen with this asset.  It will correct at some point, and the higher it goes the harder it will correct.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a major retest down to the 100 break out level, just don't know when.  It will probably happen quick and bounce hard, I just hope my interface is loaded when it happens!

----------


## newbitech

btw, I am again watching the chart at clark moody now that the websocket stream is working again.  Maybe a little head and shoulders setting up right here with 260 being the head and around 225 neck line.

That would imply retest of the ~200 support level on the hourly from about a week ago.  Watching.

----------


## newbitech

oh, and for people that like this thing, a correction and a more even keeled rise would be better off for the stability of their investment.  I like it, I hope we see a more sane growth rate.  I found an interesting set of charts.  

The square line is the difficulty.  It steps every 2 weeks by design.  Notice how the pricing has typically stayed below the difficulty factor.  When the price has bumped up against that line, it has corrected down or flattened until a day or two into the next step.

This is implying to me that as the miners find it easier to mine, they will recirculate their coins sooner placing more supply into the market.  This should suppress the pricing.  

Notice now that we aren't half way into this difficulty cycle yet and the price has quickly busted out past that level.  

Also notice where the next level sits, right around 210 - 215.  So Yeah, that retest of the 200 level is looking better and better.  I've moved my entry point to just back of 200 based on this chart, and the pattern that is now forming in the hourly.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The limit is $500 at once and outside of the 3.99 APR that bitsintant gets, zipzap charges $3.95 so your max order can be $496.05. I got a buddy of mine to get in on the BTC today using zipzap and everything went kosher.


I did a $500 order and it went through.  The final charge was $503.95.

----------


## newbitech

so sitting here watching the price manipulation.  You have bots coming in and buy tiny amounts of BTC at 4-5 dollars over the lowest ask price.  Then you have people stepping in and buying larger chunks at the manipulated price.

People are not even looking at the going prices when they are buying, they are just blindly buying at whatever the last exchange price was, even if it was an exchange of .01 BTC at $5 over the going price. 

That's gonna be real nice once that bot pushes the price up to the selling point and gets enough bids stacked up to dump.  

Pump and dump coming up for BTC.   Be ready to buy the dip LOL!

----------


## newbitech

lmao

http://web.archive.org/web/200708171.../gwt/mtgox.php




> Mt. Gox is in Beta so if you have any problems or suggestions please let us know:
> feedback@mtgox.com
> Magic the Gathering, Magic the Gathering Online and MTGO are all trademarks of Wizards of the Coast. 
> 
> MTGOX.com is in no way affiliated with Wizards of the Coast.
> Patent pending.


Magic
the
Gathering
Online
eXchange

So, 90% of all bitcoin transactions and the now close to 3 billion dollar market was originally set up to trade Magic the Gathering Cards.

Nice!

----------


## Cowlesy

I really hope a few of you true believers who were talking about mining these in 2010 mined a few thousand of them, cashed in a few and are rolling around on a mattress covered in Benjamins.  Because that would be awesome.

----------


## newbitech

fun read.

http://buttcoin.org/is-mtgox-manipul...bitcoin-market

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

This might be a nasty Wednesday folks.



Bids dropping, asks rising...we might test $200. 

FWIW, I was able to cash out 30% of my coins. Unless the price falls below $10, I won't lose any fiat....just to put the naysayers who keep shouting bubble at ease.

----------


## newbitech

5 mins chart.  

lets see if we get down to the 220 level.  if it breaks thru that, yeah!  I will get my buy in at 197, but depending on how hard the drop is to 221, i might just move that back again, watching.

----------


## newbitech

$10 spread at the moment.  Major inflection point, biggest since I've been watching last 10 days.  Lets see if we get some sanity in this market, or if we get another DDOS/lag event during this sell off.

----------


## newbitech

15 minutes chart also just confirmed head and shoulders top pattern.  watching to see if it breaks the 230 hourly support level.  Could be on it's way back to the 190's. 

Really thinking about moving my entry point lower, strong volume on selling suggest,

PANICK!

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> $10 spread at the moment.  Major inflection point, biggest since I've been watching last 10 days.  Lets see if we get some sanity in this market, or if we get another DDOS/lag event during this sell off.


The lags on MtGox are ridiculous. A market order during these lags is almost suicide.

----------


## newbitech

> The lags on MtGox are ridiculous. A market order during these lags is almost suicide.


i was just coming to post that.  insane.  I am really suspicious to be honest, that doesn't happen in the run ups, 17 minutes frigging LAG,  they are gonna blame it on cyber attack again?  

But clearly the technicals in the chart showed this sell off coming.

edit, and the more this gets propped the harder the fall is gonna be.

Hourly chart now setting up for head and shoulders with implied dip to the 197 level.  So even if they prop it on the 15 and 5 minute intervals and reverse the head and shoulders there, the hourly is gonna set up.  265 looking like a top at this point.

daily is getting ready to post a gravestone doji too.

----------


## muh_roads

> i was just coming to post that.  insane.  I am really suspicious to be honest, that doesn't happen in the run ups, 17 minutes frigging LAG,  they are gonna blame it on cyber attack again?  
> 
> But clearly the technicals in the chart showed this sell off coming.
> 
> edit, and the more this gets propped the harder the fall is gonna be.
> 
> Hourly chart now setting up for head and shoulders with implied dip to the 197 level.  So even if they prop it on the 15 and 5 minute intervals and reverse the head and shoulders there, the hourly is gonna set up.  265 looking like a top at this point.
> 
> daily is getting ready to post a gravestone doji too.


chillax people...jesus...lol

Think long term.  Day trading is a fools game.  But if people want out, they'll get out.  If people want in, they'll get in.

ZOMG WE'RE FALLIN' TO ZERO, creates a bunch of gay panic.

Hopefully things plateau for a while.  Tired of all the stupid articles that compare this type of thing to paper stock bubbles.

----------


## amonasro

Gox is either gonna have to adapt or die. Their trading system isn't nearly as robust as it needs to be.

----------


## muh_roads

> Gox is either gonna have to adapt or die. Their trading system isn't nearly as robust as it needs to be.


There are rumors that Gox is going to trade Litecoins soon...but yeah, they need to upgrade their system heavily before even attempting that.

----------


## amonasro

Bitcoin forums went down right as it dipped below 230. Coordinated attack?

----------


## newbitech

> chillax people...jesus...lol
> 
> Think long term.  Day trading is a fools game.  But if people want out, they'll get out.  If people want in, they'll get in.
> 
> ZOMG WE'RE FALLIN' TO ZERO, creates a bunch of gay panic.
> 
> Hopefully things plateau for a while.  Tired of all the stupid articles that compare this type of thing to paper stock bubbles.


lol, so we have a price reversal, and you are telling ME to chillax LOL.

I've set it several times.  One of the beautiful things about free market trading is it actually obeys technical indicators.  Day/swing trading is a fools game in government controlled markets.

But, you should be happy the pricing action is sticking to indicators. 

BTW, we just broke thru the hourly major support at 230, and did so with authority sell side volume is increasing.  Next stop 217.  And I believe a solid retest of 200 is in order.

I am in at 197 IF, we get some conviction buyers.  I don't see that happening tho.  Buying interest drying up rapidly at these levels.  We could see a pull back all the way to major daily support from a week ago, 135 ish.  

Watching.

----------


## presence

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/ just added (I think.. didn't see it before) ltc/btc and ltc/usd rows to its homepage for mtgox.  Any one know how soon until mtgox adds ltc exchange?





> *Mt.Gox* the worlds largest Bitcoin Exchange has changed its IRC topic to 
> *
> LTC support coming this month!*


https://www.bit-trader.net/litecoin-...-24hr-trading/



look at the comments here:

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/21...-Add-Litecoin-



and the twitter feed here:

https://twitter.com/MtGox/status/319785584468062208

----------


## newbitech

> Bitcoin forums went down right as it dipped below 230. Coordinated attack?


no coordinated sell off since the price got pushed way to high on crap volume and speculative interest.  What you seeing is all the people who piled in at market price with $10 $20 spreads realizing they should have been more aware of what the market was really doing.

AND people wanting to know if some news came out that reversed the insane parabolic trend that they expected to cash in on forever.  

The news is, you bought into an unsustainable price rise.  

This is a self inflicted wound.  Most people didn't wait for a good technical entry point, and instead bought into the idea that the price was going to the moon.

Now it's all freak out that the unsustainable parabola is GASP!  Unsustainable.  I'll get in when the technicals make sense to get in.  And I'll cash out at the peak, let it fall and get back in again.  rinse and repeat until my little ol'e .1 BTC turns into 1 BTC.  Then I'll split that bad boy and play the ups and downs.

edit:  BTW, I pulled my 197 order.  This thing needs to come on down to 110 ish to be worth the in at this point, IMO.  

That was the price about 8 days ago after the break thru of 100 on excellent conviction buying volume.

----------


## newbitech

so no concern about LTC diluting the crypto market?  hmmmm> ??

----------


## amonasro

This is the worst lag I've seen from them to date. It's happened 4 or 5 times where the price drops sharply then recovers once the lag clears up. 

One of the times was a confirmed ddos attack where the hackers scooped up a bunch of cheap coins. Might be what's happening now.

----------


## newbitech

> This is the worst lag I've seen from them to date. It's happened 4 or 5 times where the price drops sharply then recovers once the lag clears up. 
> 
> One of the times was a confirmed ddos attack where the hackers scooped up a bunch of cheap coins. Might be what's happening now.


sure, pay no attention to the volume spikes and the $#@!tiness of Magic the Gathering Online eXchange  (mt gox) servers.

edit, support right here at 217 ish.  Could be a good fight if we have some convicted buyers at this level with reserve cash. 

Otherwise next stop 200.

----------


## amonasro

> sure, pay no attention to the volume spikes and the $#@!tiness of Magic the Gathering Online eXchange  (mt gox) servers.


Surely a 1500 second trading delay would also be a factor. 

And ddos action. Which has been happening all week.

the shiftiness of gox is the main reason, agreed there. 

Edit: $#@!tiness of gox. Damn auto correct.

----------


## Seraphim

Agreed.




> I really hope a few of you true believers who were talking about mining these in 2010 mined a few thousand of them, cashed in a few and are rolling around on a mattress covered in Benjamins.  Because that would be awesome.

----------


## FSP-Rebel

I relish the chance to buy more at a much cheaper level tbh, I'm long as are many so it's good to have a nice flush at this point. It's also good to give the 'get rich quick' folks a shock to the core.

----------


## newbitech

> Surely a 1500 second trading delay would also be a factor. 
> 
> And ddos action. Which has been happening all week.
> 
> the shiftiness of gox is the main reason, agreed there. 
> 
> Edit: $#@!tiness of gox. Damn auto correct.


so no trading delay issues on the upside tho.  Don't buy the DDOS attack nonsense.  People still trading.  The server is throttled on the down side.

and it's a 20 minutes delay now.

----------


## newbitech

probably a decent entry point if you are hedging the upside potential.  But sellers are still piling in and buyers are still pulling back, charts are still reversing to down side at all intervals.  But, i do see lots of buying interest piling up at slightly lower levels.  I expect a reboung off 200.

----------


## presence

> It’s widely assumed that the recent increase in the value of a  bitcoin, from $13.50 at the start of the year to more than $250 today,  must be the result of speculative excess.  But I have yet to see anyone actually make the argument for this  point of view. Lots of people have made arguments that Bitcoin is  nothing but a fad, and that it’s value will be $0 in the long run. I  think that view is incorrect but it’s not a crazy view—it’s one I held a  couple of years ago. But I don’t know of anyone who has made a  convincing argument that Bitcoins are worth _something_, but that the current price is too high.
> []
> If you think the fundamentals of the Bitcoin economy will support a  price of $500 by 2018,
> 
> *it’s rational to buy bitcoins at $250 today*
> 
>  even  if today’s fundamentals only support a price of $50. So the recent rise  in Bitcoin’s price is a bet on the future size of the Bitcoin economy.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothyl...n-is-a-bubble/

----------


## newbitech

> http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothyl...n-is-a-bubble/


except, it's not rational to buy at that price when you can get them for nearly 25% cheaper, by simply waiting out the delusional exuberance!

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> so no concern about LTC diluting the crypto market?  hmmmm> ??


If trading ever begins on Gox, I wouldn't be surprise to see a hefty spike. At that point, I convert my LTC to BTC. But I really don't see any other crypto currencies as a threat to Bitcoin.

----------


## newbitech

> If trading ever begins on Gox, I wouldn't be surprise to see a hefty spike. At that point, I convert my LTC to BTC. But I really don't see any other crypto currencies as a threat to Bitcoin.


I think bitcoin has made it's name by being an alt, and is widely supported by libertarians who would like to see competition in currency.  I would hope that another crypto or two would rise up to compete.  I think that would validate the overall viability as crypto as an alt.  

If the only competitors are main stream and underground, we get polarization, which really doesn't offer choices or alternative.   So, while BTC might be trail blazing, it'd be nice to see another follow the same path.

----------


## newbitech

looks like 200 is going to get crushed based on the volume of this sell off.

----------


## Cowlesy

I took a look on this site: http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/

and it's pretty interesting.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> looks like 200 is going to get crushed based on the volume of this sell off.


Bitstamp is at $194.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

For some serious arbitrage, BTC China is at 1715 CNY ($277). https://btcchina.com

----------


## newbitech

> I took a look on this site: http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/
> 
> and it's pretty interesting.


if you turn on the controls, you can see the order book up to 1000 rows.

See that massive buy order sitting on 200?  2334 BTC.  I am watching that.  If whoever has that chunk pulls it.... mmhmmm.

----------


## amonasro

> Don't buy the DDOS attack nonsense.


I don't know, quite a coincidence that the major hub of bitcoin discussion and bitfloor went down (bitfloor is still down as I type this) and unprecedented lag at Mt.Gox, all at the same time.

Hackers could easily hire a botnet, attack, flush out some noob $$$ and buy in at lower prices. Sounds like a strategy to me.

----------


## Cowlesy

> if you turn on the controls, you can see the order book up to 1000 rows.
> 
> See that massive buy order sitting on 200?  2334 BTC.  I am watching that.  If whoever has that chunk pulls it.... mmhmmm.


Well i feel bad for people who put in buy orders on that MtGox exchange or whatever, because you see sells going through at $200 and buys at like $205/$210 mixed in...that's a big freaking spread for something so supposedly liquid.

----------


## newbitech

serious lag now.  This is not a DDOS, this is just a slow as server unable to respond, and probably getting throttled.  Last I saw was 27 minute trading lag.  Now, I have lost my data stream.

----------


## newbitech

> I don't know, quite a coincidence that the major hub of bitcoin discussion and bitfloor went down (bitfloor is still down as I type this) and unprecedented lag at Mt.Gox, all at the same time.
> 
> Hackers could easily hire a botnet, attack, flush out some noob $$$ and buy in at lower prices. Sounds like a strategy to me.


except, if you noticed the carts, all signals pointed to a big sell off in the works.  You have to remember what a DDOS is.  It's just a constant hit on the servers distributed from all over the internet. 

You'd see the same thing on a website that got a sudden influx of legitimate interest on a basic go daddy shared hosting plan. 

Doesn't mean it's an attack, just means the server can't handle the load.  Any of them.

----------


## amonasro

This is probably good for bitcoin though. It will force Mt.Cox to upgrade (hopefully) and give incentive for better exchanges to open.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Trading starting to slow a little. Lag up to 40 minutes. $200 wall down to 240 BTC.

----------


## newbitech

> Well i feel bad for people who put in buy orders on that MtGox exchange or whatever, because you see sells going through at $200 and buys at like $205/$210 mixed in...that's a big freaking spread for something so supposedly liquid.


the thing about that is tho, you can bid a price that you want.  You don't have to buy it at the market quote which we already know is lagged badly.

But, people read article like the above, talking about how it's sane to buy in at 250, in the middle of a sell off/ correction that's maybe gonna take it down to price levels from a week ago.  

That's just dumb investing IMO.

Waiting for a good entry pays off.  It's like basic shopping 101.  People don't go out and buy their christmas decoration the week of christmas if they care about their money, they wait until the event is over.

What we have witnessed is an event, and people basically not caring about their USD.  That's cool with me, but damn, it so predictable human behaviour!

even the clark moody site is locking up.  this isn't ddos, it's just people trying to figure out what the huge change in price is all about.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

$200 is gone.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

$14 spread!

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

$150?

----------


## newbitech

> $150?
> chart snip


looking at the 4 hours support level, some support around 180ish, you can kind of see it in your chart.

next major level will have to be 143-147.  After that, we are back to BTC obscurity, since 100 break out will most certain be retested if we break 145 or so.

and 3 day is getting ready to post a gravestone doji.  Might be time to start looking at the weekly charts!

----------


## newbitech

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-plunges-2013-4

----------


## Seraphim

it would be healthy for BTC (for the long term) to drop a lot more down close to 100$ and than firm up. Similar dynamic as silver when it went from 18-50 so fast. 

Medium term bubble inside of a long term secular bull market. Time to cool off and consolidate.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

I've lost my feed. MtGox stuck at $183. Maybe they halted trading?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> it would be healthy for BTC (for the long term) to drop a lot more down close to 100$ and than firm up. Similar dynamic as silver when it went from 18-50 so fast. 
> 
> Medium term bubble inside of a long term secular bull market. Time to cool off and consolidate.


I certainly wouldn't mind. I definitely became concerned when the price was $120 when I went to bed, and $150 when I woke up.

----------


## newbitech

> I've lost my feed. MtGox stuck at $183. Maybe they halted trading?



ive got my mt gox open.  highest bid 180.00

----------


## Seraphim

That was my concern when silver was charging through 35 to 50 so fast. I was like NOOOOOOOO THIS IS TOO FAST, I NEED MOOOOARRRRR.

I'm real glad there has been a long consolidation - not that I've been able to get more, but I might be able to buy more silver pretty soon. 

Similar dynamic for BTC. If BTC can stay triple digits, without irrationally going to 500$ in the span of 2 weeks - it will bode well for it's long term viability. 




> I certainly wouldn't mind. I definitely became concerned when the price was $120 when I went to bed, and $150 when I woke up.

----------


## Sam I am

Bitcoin just dropped a bunch, and I think it'll probably be on the downswing for the next couple days.

But at any rate, I made a bet with myself that it got above 200, I'd buy some bitcoin, and I'm still working on getting that set up.  

As it turns out, it's a bit harder than just entering your credit card info somewhere.

----------


## Seraphim

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...40-and-dumping

closing in on 150$

----------


## schiffheadbaby

> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...40-and-dumping
> 
> closing in on 150$


Bitstamp says 80, but I'm confused because there are price discrepancies.  Is there one central spot price?  Thanks

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Bitstamp is up to $90 now.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> Bitstamp says 80, but I'm confused because there are price discrepancies.  Is there one central spot price?  Thanks


No central price. Unfortunately, MtGox handles something like 80% of all trade, and every time there is a sell off there is a major lag.

----------


## dannno

Wow, glad I got a little bit of silver last night with the high price. I wonder where it will level out at. It'll probably be back up to $250 range again within a few days.

----------


## newbitech

big stack at 150 USD.

next major support 110.  after that..  5000 stack at 100.  So, 

looking for volume drying up.  

I've got a bid in now at 147.14747

that's a 50% fib retracement from the intra day high today, and the intra day high last spike up may 2011.

edit: damn actually, im pulling that one too.  weekly is showing gravestone doji coming up.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Mtgox is down. 

Bitstamp is up to $175. Low was $70 (yes, double digits).

Eta:  Gox works for me now.

----------


## jclay2

Sell Sell Sell.Turn those machines back on!!!!

----------


## muh_roads

The DDoS worked in favor of the hackers, now they will buy up the cheaper coins at other exchanges.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

$142 on Gox?

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> The DDoS worked in favor of the hackers, now they will buy up the cheaper coins at other exchanges.


Need more, better exchanges. I wonder what the next year will bring.

----------


## newbitech

eessh, this thing is collapse badly.

that 5k buy at 100 is gone with the wind.

People are pulling their orders.

FLASH CRASH!

Put in buy orders at 1 dollar, bet you get filled if this keeps up!

----------


## muh_roads

Days like this are awesome for buying.

----------


## jclay2

> Days like this are awesome for buying.


Lol

----------


## newbitech

fukkkkkk, cant even process a bid now!  Looks like i pulled my order in the nick of time.

130 and falling like a rock.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

Classic shakeout.

----------


## jclay2

> fukkkkkk, cant even process a bid now!  Looks like i pulled my order in the nick of time.
> 
> 130 and falling like a rock.


As a non bitcoiner, I am just trying to find out prices. Everyone is reporting something different.

----------


## muh_roads

> Lol


dude you should too.  why are people unhappy?  if it goes down more it's great.

----------


## newbitech

55 dollar spread.  

eesshh!

----------


## newbitech

> As a non bitcoiner, I am just trying to find out prices. Everyone is reporting something different.


yeah, probably due to the over 40 minutes trade lag and the inability to actually place buy orders right now.  Probably can't even sell....

----------


## amonasro

yeah it's jumping back and forth from 140 to 180. weeeee!!

----------


## newbitech

i got 120

next big chunk staked at 95

----------


## muh_roads

> i got 120


nice dude.

----------


## newbitech

my god, $50 spread on something that peaked at $265 dollars.   sickening actually.

too bad the damn buy sell buttons don't work....

----------


## muh_roads

at least u got in.  I can't.  grrrrr

----------


## ChristianAnarchist

Here I thought I'd made some money on these things and now they drop like a rock.  I'm negative now and I think as soon as they go up to where I can come out on top, I'm outta here...  Gold and silver are way less headache...

----------


## muh_roads

> Here I thought I'd made some money on these things and now they drop like a rock.  I'm negative now and I think as soon as they go up to where I can come out on top, I'm outta here...  Gold and silver are way less headache...


I remember a lot of first timers bought silver @ $17 in 2008, then things crashed to $6 and people got sand in their vaginas and bailed.  So stupid.

Always have money ready to dollar average in cases like this.

----------


## Crystallas

I love this correction.    I just made a ton. It's awesome to actually understand economics and work with bitcoin.

----------


## anaconda

Last price = *$120* on Mt.Gox. 12:52 P.M. 4-10-13

UPDATE: Up $48 in the last 6 hours to *$168.77* at 6:45 P.M. 4-10-13.

----------


## anaconda

> I love this correction.    I just made a ton.


Did you pay on short sale deals?

----------


## Crystallas

> Did you pay on short sale deals?


Nope.    But what has helped me the most, is recognizing that Gox has been lagged for two weeks. Anyone that goes off Gox as their indicator of  market value(until they actually can handle the volumes) is either a novice BTC'er or stubbornly stupid.

----------


## mad cow

Does this market close like the NYSE or is it 24/7?

----------


## jtap

> Good to have a name to use when the cursing starts...


I guess I didn't really give enough warning, but I did give some.

----------


## Crystallas

> Does this market close like the NYSE or is it 24/7?


24/7

----------


## Kords21

After a mixup with bitinstant and the details of my mt.gox account being funded, they said they did a direct deposit when Mt.Gox was looking for a coupon code. Actually worked out in my favor since I would have bought in originally at around $180 or so, got in at $129. I didn't buy in much, more of an experiment than anything, but you have to start somewhere.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

I think MtGox stopped doing codes this morning.

----------


## Kords21

The code I used in, worked just fine about 2 hours ago

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> The code I used in, worked just fine about 2 hours ago


Interesting. I was just relaying what I heard from someone else. Could've been false info.

----------


## Kords21

bitinstant was a bit confusing since their confirmation e-mail said no coupon code was needed since they'd be doing a direct deposit. After some time passed and no money turning up and nothing from the bitinstant customer service after numerous e-mails and voicemails, the support from Mt. Gox finally got back to me and told me to use the coupon code. Lesson learned with bitinstant, their customer service is non-existent and when they say you don't need a coupon code, think otherwise. Worked out in my favor, so I guess I can't complain too much.

----------


## anaconda

BTC price = *$120* on Mt.Gox. 12:52 P.M. 4-10-13

Up $48 in the last 6 hours to* $168.77* at 6:45 P.M. 4-10-13.

Any ideas why the price is so volatile????????

----------


## muh_roads



----------


## anaconda

> 


Buy?

----------


## Petar

> BTC price = *$120* on Mt.Gox. 12:52 P.M. 4-10-13
> 
> Up $48 in the last 6 hours to* $168.77* at 6:45 P.M. 4-10-13.
> 
> Any ideas why the price is so volatile????????


It's anyone's guess really. 

I think that it's a mix of a couple things mostly:

1) A new technology that is taking off 

2) DDS attacks on major exchanges

3) Coordinated takedowns by the money cartels

My personal guess is that it will continue to be a very bumpy ride, but that it will probably go to the moon in the next 5-10 years.

----------


## anaconda

So, if we do decide to sell BTC, how do we do it if we've been dealing with Bitinstant? I don't see any way to sell BTC on Bitinstant.

----------


## Gaddafi Duck

> It's anyone's guess really. 
> 
> I think that it's a mix of a couple things mostly:
> 
> 1) A new technology that is taking off 
> 
> 2) DDS attacks on major exchanges
> 
> 3) Coordinated takedowns by the money cartels
> ...


lmao.. yeah, sure. 

mtgox USD: $170/bitcoin
mtgox EUR: 98 euros/bitcoin

current exchange rate: $1.30/euro

you cant even arbitrage this market, because it's not a market. i mean, look at that divergence. you'll never, ever see that in any modern marketplace. considering how this is all digital, there's no reason to justify that big of a disconnect in pricing. i'd expect it if you were exchanging bitcoins in 1792 where you were buying bitcoins in new york vs. columbia, south carolina.

it's a broken market. sure, it could go to the moon in 5-10 years. question: will i be frozen out? i could make millions of dollars in a matter of minutes arbitraging this market, but i'm terrified that my money wouldnt get transferred...that the exchange wont settle my transaction. it's as if sending my dollars into cyberspace on a blind mission hoping they'll return at some point, and in some form.

----------


## newbitech

> It's anyone's guess really. 
> 
> I think that it's a mix of a couple things mostly:
> 
> 1) A new technology that is taking off 
> 
> 2) DDS attacks on major exchanges
> 
> 3) Coordinated takedowns by the money cartels
> ...


lol at 2 and 3.  Pretty obvious that there wasn't enough throughput in the system to handle major trading actions.  The 60 dollar spread at one point was completely amateur.  Perhaps Mt. Gox ought to try and buy some extra band width and servers with the bitcoins they have hoarded?

It pisses me off that I timed the market perfectly, but was unable to place my orders due to the exchange being not functional.  That started on the way down when the price was breaking below 180 and for hours after.  The last move I made was to take my order at 147 off the table because I saw the volume trend breaking below to support below those levels. 

I could not place my order at new levels simply because the throughput at the exchange was hosed by the massive influx of people looking to take profit or at least not take loss when buyers dried up at the 265 level.

Your calls to go to the moon are ridiculous.  The only reason it got as high as it did as fast as it did was pure greed and stupidity.  That was predictable.  I am not surprised it bounced to 170 now, but look at the paltry volume that has moved up from the 120-140 levels.  

It's got to get a foot hold first, but right now, its hanging by a finger nail.

----------


## schiffheadbaby

> lmao.. yeah, sure. 
> 
> mtgox USD: $170/bitcoin
> mtgox EUR: 98 euros/bitcoin
> 
> current exchange rate: $1.30/euro
> 
> you cant even arbitrage this market, because it's not a market. i mean, look at that divergence. you'll never, ever see that in any modern marketplace. considering how this is all digital, there's no reason to justify that big of a disconnect in pricing. i'd expect it if you were exchanging bitcoins in 1792 where you were buying bitcoins in new york vs. columbia, south carolina.
> 
> it's a broken market. sure, it could go to the moon in 5-10 years. question: will i be frozen out? i could make millions of dollars in a matter of minutes arbitraging this market, but i'm terrified that my money wouldnt get transferred...that the exchange wont settle my transaction. it's as if sending my dollars into cyberspace on a blind mission hoping they'll return at some point, and in some form.


I agree Duck, the arbitrage is ridiculous.  I asked this earlier and the bitcoin bulls think this is healthy.  Nobody even knows the real price because they are scattered everywhere.  Worse, it doesn't seem like it is very liquid.  

I have a bad feeling people will wake up one morning and bitcoin will be 2 dollars or worse

----------


## newbitech

> Nope.    But what has helped me the most, is recognizing that Gox has been lagged for two weeks. Anyone that goes off Gox as their indicator of  market value(until they actually can handle the volumes) is either a novice BTC'er or stubbornly stupid.


i find this comment interesting.  You say you made a ton in the middle of a market crash, but you didn't short.  That just means you traded in a bunch of USD for some relatively cheap btc.  No need to short it and cash out in USD if making a ton means accumulating BTC>

----------


## newbitech

so what we have here is a symmetrical triangle forming on the hourly and more pronounced on the 15 minutes with low volume confirmation.  This is a continuation pattern of the previous trend.  Once it breaks  out of the pattern, you'll want to be on the side of the breakout.

Chances are, its breaking lower since that is the hourly and 15 minutes trend.  

IOW, sell now, and get ready to buy the dip, or be ready to get in on the move up when the triangle breaks up.

Odds are its breaking down.  So get ready to buy this dip.

----------


## Mike4Freedom

> 


I am sorry, but this is aweful advice. Even is some people bought higher then the current price they need to sell and wait for the full correction.
I would call this advice to hold almost malicious at this point, look at the data.

----------


## newbitech

> First of all we would like to reassure you but no we were not last night victim of a DDoS but instead victim of our own success!
> 
> Indeed the rather astonishing amount of new account opened in the last few days added to the existing one plus the number of trade made a huge impact on the overall system that started to lag. As expected in such situation people started to panic, started to sell Bitcoin in mass (Panic Sale) resulting in an increase of trade that ultimately froze the trade engine! 
> 
> To give you an idea of how impressive things were here are some numbers that we would love to share with you guys: 
> - The number of trades executed triple in the last 24hrs. 
> - The number of new account opened went from 60k for March alone to 75k new account created for the first few days of April! We now have roughly 20,000 new accounts created each day.
> 
> Due to these facts we have been busy working on improving things since last week and our team has been working around the clock to improve Mt.Gox to catch up with the demand. We will continue to release several updates today and in the coming few days to improve our system overall performance.
> ...


no, no ddos.  and as i said, the trading engine shut down.  So this cost me my great entry.  funny, the thing collapse in sell off mode, but not buy in mode...

----------


## Petar

> lol at 2 and 3.  Pretty obvious that there wasn't enough throughput in the system to handle major trading actions.  The 60 dollar spread at one point was completely amateur.  Perhaps Mt. Gox ought to try and buy some extra band width and servers with the bitcoins they have hoarded?
> 
> It pisses me off that I timed the market perfectly, but was unable to place my orders due to the exchange being not functional.  That started on the way down when the price was breaking below 180 and for hours after.  The last move I made was to take my order at 147 off the table because I saw the volume trend breaking below to support below those levels. 
> 
> I could not place my order at new levels simply because the throughput at the exchange was hosed by the massive influx of people looking to take profit or at least not take loss when buyers dried up at the 265 level.
> 
> Your calls to go to the moon are ridiculous.  The only reason it got as high as it did as fast as it did was pure greed and stupidity.  That was predictable.  I am not surprised it bounced to 170 now, but look at the paltry volume that has moved up from the 120-140 levels.  
> 
> It's got to get a foot hold first, but right now, its hanging by a finger nail.


Why ridiculous? 

Who is to say what the price could be if/when bitcoin use becomes as common as PayPal. 

Especially considering how the Western fiat banking system is currently collapsing in slo-mo...

My personal guess is that things will pick back up in the next few weeks, so we will see.

----------


## anaconda

Can anyone point me in the right direction on getting my bitcoins from my blockchain wallet into my Mt.Gox account? I don't know where to begin. None of the "pay from" pull down Bitinstant menu options look appropriate, even though it's got a Mt.Gox pay to option on the "pay to" pull down menu.

Thanks.

----------


## muh_roads

> I am sorry, but this is aweful advice. Even is some people bought higher then the current price they need to sell and wait for the full correction.
> I would call this advice to hold almost malicious at this point, look at the data.


Since only time machines can predict what a "full correction" is that is also terrible advice...lol

It was just a funny image.  dowhatchulike.

In 2-4 years I don't think people are going to be giving a crap about days like today.  It was under $200 just 48 hours ago...chillax...

----------


## muh_roads

> so what we have here is a symmetrical triangle forming on the hourly and more pronounced on the 15 minutes with low volume confirmation.  This is a continuation pattern of the previous trend.  Once it breaks  out of the pattern, you'll want to be on the side of the breakout.
> 
> Chances are, its breaking lower since that is the hourly and 15 minutes trend.  
> 
> IOW, sell now, and get ready to buy the dip, or be ready to get in on the move up when the triangle breaks up.
> 
> Odds are its breaking down.  So get ready to buy this dip.


Markets are emotional...put away your pen...lol

Many people are sleeping right now.

----------


## amonasro

Anaconda, I know you can fund your mt.gox account directly with bitcoins from your wallet. I put a few in so I'd be ready to buy the next dip. I realize that gives you USD instead of coins though. 

Im pretty new at this too so maybe there's a better way.

----------


## kcchiefs6465

> Markets are emotional...put away your pen...lol
> 
> Many people are sleeping right now.


Meh. I'd like for him to keep up the good work. I'd be looking into his advice more than the claims that this could hit $10,000 per BTC or to hold indefinitely. It *will* come to end. Who gets stuck with the bag, hard to tell. I'd give the advice that someone should have given Madoff's clientele, take it for what it's worth; Thing too good to be true, are.

And I'm not necessarily saying that this is on par or structured the same as Madoff's ponzi scheme. I'm giving the advice to good people who may see dollar signs and think it's forever going up to be cautious. I don't trust it long run. Short run might make you a few bucks. Those who bought cheap ought to consider switching to something more stable next time it hits a high. How many percents profit is enough? (to those who bought at 3 bucks or 20 bucks) If your gut tells you to stay in, by all means ride out these waves.

----------


## anaconda

> Anaconda, I know you can fund your mt.gox account directly with bitcoins from your wallet. I put a few in so I'd be ready to buy the next dip. I realize that gives you USD instead of coins though. 
> 
> Im pretty new at this too so maybe there's a better way.


I just tried it. I thought I was putting Bitcoins in my Mt.Gox account. In case i want to sell some. Are you saying Mt.Gox is somehow converting them to USD?

----------


## muh_roads

> Meh. I'd like for him to keep up the good work. I'd be looking into his advice more than the claims that this could hit $10,000 per BTC or to hold indefinitely. It *will* come to end. Who gets stuck with the bag, hard to tell. I'd give the advice that someone should have given Madoff's clientele, take it for what it's worth; Thing too good to be true, are.
> 
> And I'm not necessarily saying that this is on par or structured the same as Madoff's ponzi scheme. I'm giving the advice to good people who may see dollar signs and think it's forever going up to be cautious. I don't trust it long run. Short run might make you a few bucks. Those who bought cheap ought to consider switching to something more stable next time it hits a high. How many percents profit is enough? (to those who bought at 3 bucks or 20 bucks) If your gut tells you to stay in, by all means ride out these waves.


More roller-coaster rides are bound to happen.  It could be tomorrow, it could be next month.  I just worry people are stressing themselves out which then turns things into a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Becomes a huge mob mentality...

----------


## opal

As interesting as this thread has been - I can't see parting with food and toilet paper money for one bitcoin..

----------


## newbitech

> Can anyone point me in the right direction on getting my bitcoins from my blockchain wallet into my Mt.Gox account? I don't know where to begin. None of the "pay from" pull down Bitinstant menu options look appropriate, even though it's got a Mt.Gox pay to option on the "pay to" pull down menu.
> 
> Thanks.


https://mtgox.com/trade/funding-options

select "bitcoins" under Please Choose a Funding Method

It will then give you an address to send to.

Access the wallet with the address that is holding the bitcoin you want to move and then send from that address to the address in the Mt. Gox screen.

I did that from my bitcoin-qt/armory client.  I ended up having to "pay" a transaction fee of I think it was .001 to send to mt. gox.

----------


## newbitech

> Markets are emotional...put away your pen...lol
> 
> Many people are sleeping right now.


its funny you say that when the hourly volume levels for the last couple of hours are way about the historic average.  Many people may be sleeping right now, but people who have an interest in protecting their bitcoin investment and/or playing this wild market gyration are buying and selling BTC at record levels for this market. 

There was a very clear market signal that has been going on for the past week and a few days that a major correction was coming.  It was in the shape of a parabola.

The reason we have charts like this is to make informed decisions about when to get in and out of markets.   The market then gave a really good reversal signal, in fact it telegraphed it, which was great.  It let me sell at damn near the top.

That was the head and shoulders pattern that showed up.  It confirmed and then it was just a matter of staking out support levels and watching the depth of the market to see how low it would go.

Emotional people are also predictable people.   That is why Technical Analysis of charts works so well in a free market.  

Now here is this continuation pattern.  Very important patter to understand.  It was nice we didn't see a dead cat bounce.  gave people a chance to recover from the cliff diving, but make no mistake, this pattern is indicating market indecision as a whole.  It appears that the supply and demand curve has found and equilibrium, thus the circling around that drain type of gyration.  That equilibrium is what creates the symmetrical triangle pattern in the chart.  But we know that line isn't going to be flat, that patter is going to break up or down out of that triangle signaling momentum.

The reason it's known as a continuation pattern is because typically occurs after a sharp trend with building volume reaches an impasse.  The volume starts to decrease as the price begins to gyrate closer and closer to the equilibrium.  Then once the volume picks back up again, the trend continues in the same direction of the increase volume.  

In this case, it would continue downward price breaking out of the triangles that my pen has drawn.  In trend pattern studies you might read that something like 9/10 times the pattern breaks in the direction of previous momentum.

This means the price is setting up for people to short it, if that is possible.

So what you would do in this environment is look for an exit when price hits along the top of the triangle, and wait for the price to fall to a new support level before you buy back in.  

In the odd event where the pattern breaks opposite your position, you are still in good shape because you would be able to in this case, buy as soon as the price breaks up and ride up to resistance.

It's a pretty strong pattern and probably one of the more consistent and obvious patterns.

----------


## newbitech

continuation pattern validated on very powerful volume.  nearly 60,000 btc moved in that 15 minutes window.

large band of support between 100-120, that is being attacked with tremendous selling interest, almost 4 times what looks to be average levels from the last few weeks during the run up.  

With the largest chunks positioned around 101 and 110 respectively.  

We are seeing the action that we saw yesterday at an accelerated pace!  Keep an eye on the book and see if buy orders are getting pulled before the price level is reached.

I think this is coming down thru 100 today, and I will really be looking to see this come back and test the peek from Summer 2011 parabolic rally of 32 BTC!

Once the 100 level is taken out, it's only a matter of ticking off 3-4 days of price increase to reach that level.

I will be a strong buyer at 32 BTC, I believe it's time to go to the red phone again and be ready to stake my claim at the bottom of the correction!

----------


## newbitech

a bounce off the 100-120 support level.  Some of the larger blocks have moved their bids up.  You've got resistance around 140 ish. 

Could trade sideways for a good bit here.

----------


## presence

twitter mtgox account 6 minutes ago:




> *MtGox.com*     ‏@*MtGox*  6m @*awad_ziad* Hello,  We are upgrading our database.  Trading will resume afterwards.


..


from btc-e trollbox




> MtGox- Market cooldown, order placing suspended until 2013-04-12 02:00:00 UTC

----------


## newbitech

trading halted on Mt. Gox!

----------


## presence

> *MtGox.com*     ‏@*MtGox*





> 4h                          Maintenance Over however we are now under a DDoS attack.


4 hours ago

----------


## presence

> Yes, we have.  Trading will resume at 11am JST.  You can still cancel your orders now. http://bit.ly/10Z8jvM



mtgox via twitter

that's 11 PM east coast

----------


## presence

*MtGox.com*     ‏@*MtGox*  3m                          Trading is suspended until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC for market cooldown. Once back trading will be also faster.

----------


## newbitech

they are claiming they are being attacked, but I doubt it.  If I set up a basic web page to run off say WAMP on my laptop right here, and gave out my IP address and told everyone to come to my webpage for free BTC,  

people would get pissed at me cause they wouldn't be able to load my page.  But if I tried to claim it was DDoS, would you believe it?  Doubt it. 

Anyways,

That's 24 hours to find another exchange I suppose.  Confidence is fading for Magic the Gathering Online eXchange, faster than the BTC sell off underway.  

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if it was Mt. Gox, that did the 58k BTC dump at 140-120 and then shut their servers off.  Now they need to wait for their merchant account to clear those funds.  Something like 5-7 million dollar dump, about and hour before trading halted.  Not look good to me.

----------


## presence

btc-e

102.1 btc

----------


## presence

btc-e 


100.5 btc   160k wall at 100.1  11k at 109  35k at 114
1.75 ltc

----------


## newbitech

gonna see if this works.

https://www.mybtc-trader.com/index.p...-in-50-seconds

Here are the steps, that had been perform in this 50 seconds:

Selling 2 BTC on MtGox for a price of 11.64 USD/BTC with a market order and getting 23.23 USD (0.4% fee).Creating a MtGox coupon code from the 23.23 USD.Transferring 23.23 USD from MtGox to BTC-e via Bitinstant (1.49% fee).Receiving 22.89 USD on BTC-e Bitcoin exchange.Buying new Bitcoins for a price of 11.40 USD/BTC getting 2.0037 BTC again.

----------


## presence

> gonna see if this works.
> 
> https://www.mybtc-trader.com/index.p...-in-50-seconds
> 
> Here are the steps, that had been perform in this 50 seconds:
> 
> Selling 2 BTC on MtGox for a price of 11.64 USD/BTC with a market order and getting 23.23 USD (0.4% fee).Creating a MtGox coupon code from the 23.23 USD.Transferring 23.23 USD from MtGox to BTC-e via Bitinstant (1.49% fee).Receiving 22.89 USD on BTC-e Bitcoin exchange.Buying new Bitcoins for a price of 11.40 USD/BTC getting 2.0037 BTC again.



I couldnt' find a linux version.  I don't run windows.   Great for arbitrage but... only one exchange right now.

----------


## newbitech

guess not....

grrrr....




> Method is disabled: Generation of USD and CAD redeemable codes will not be possible due to legal issues


ah well, that would be crazy to move money around like that I suppose.d

----------


## presence

crashing 

80

79

75

74

----------


## presence

67 btc

1.4 ltc


btc-e

----------


## presence

Holy $#@! all over the place from 65-90

----------


## enter`name`here

And yet the canadian exchange is at 135 :/

The price is wildly different from exchange to exchange. They say that they halted trading to cool the market down, yet it looks like it is having the opposite effect, BTC is in chaos with no one really sure what it is worth.

----------


## presence

btce 24 hour: 

Last Price: *88 USD*

Low: *65 USD*
High: *248 USD

*

----------


## newbitech

it has to go back down to the summer 2011 top of 32 dollars at this point to mark a value point.  

84 is still over bought...

----------


## presence

58.2 btce btc last

----------


## newbitech

> video snip
> 
> 58.2 btce btc last



good vid, here's the article he published yesterday.

http://www.infowars.com/how-the-loom...to-currencies/


I just want to say, for those who got in at the peek and decided to hold, the best thing you can probably do is pay close attention to the coming smack down when MTGOX opens back up. 

It's probably gonna go down hard to the 30's and then probably overshoot to maybe the 10's and 20's level.

I'd be ready with new money to get in on that, or if you want to risk it, move your BTC over to another market and get out now around 80ish if you can.

Good luck, and I hope you can recover some of your losses.

----------


## Bodhi



----------


## presence

> good vid, here's the article he published yesterday.
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/how-the-loom...to-currencies/
> 
> 
> I just want to say, for those who got in at the peek and decided to hold, the best thing you can probably do is pay close attention to the coming smack down when MTGOX opens back up. 
> 
> It's probably gonna go down hard to the 30's and then probably overshoot to maybe the 10's and 20's level.
> 
> ...





Any thoughts on moving usd from mtgox to btce in the mean time?  I think I'd rather be trading on btce when when gox opens.

----------


## cubical

Has max keiser said anything about the crash? He led his followers to the slaughter.

----------


## presence

//

----------


## presence

> Has max keiser said anything about the crash? He led his followers to the slaughter.



Lead me to the trough...  do you have a buy point in mind?

----------


## enter`name`here

> 


My thoughts exactly, shame I have to goto work now

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

The biggest problem are the exchanges. Almost all the actions happens on MtGox. Hopefully, this event causes people to find other exchanges, and better ones to pop up.

----------


## schiffheadbaby

Wow, can you guys get your money out or is the system locked?

----------


## brandon

> Lead me to the trough...  do you have a buy point in mind?


 I do.  Under $30. I won't buy much though, maybe just 30 or 40 coins. I have a feeling I'll be able to get it tomorrow.

----------


## newbitech

> Any thoughts on moving usd from mtgox to btce in the mean time?  I think I'd rather be trading on btce when when gox opens.


only way is to set up a wire transfer or bank transfer.  Won't be able to do it in time trade these levels on another exchange, BUT, when gox opens back up, you'll be able to buy up whatever BTC is left on that exchange from people who haven't figured out how to move their BTC from their Mt. Gox wallet to something else. 

But yeah, no way to quickly move USD out of mt. gox to continue trading.

----------


## newbitech

> I do.  Under $30. I won't buy much though, maybe just 30 or 40 coins. I have a feeling I'll be able to get it tomorrow.


yep, targeting something around USD 20 something, maybe lower if the people in at those levels lose speculative interest from 2 years ago.  Doubt it tho.  20 something will probably be a hard floor.

----------


## newbitech

> Trading is halted until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC to allow the market to cooldown following the drop in price. Read more details on the support. Additionally trading fees will not be charged within 48 hours of trading resuming (until 2013-04-14 02:00am UTC).





> *Market Cooldown for 12 hours*                         Mt.Gox Support
>           posted this on Apr 11 23:33        
> 
>       Orders will not be accepted for the moment as we need to upgrade our database to accommodate the trading volume.  However, you may still cancel your pending and open orders.  Trading will resume at 11.00 am JST.  Our apologies for the inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience while we work to resolve this issue.



So exchange supposed to reopen at 10PM EST tonight.  Basically 10 hours from this post.

----------


## squarepusher



----------


## newbitech

> I hope everyone is prepared to lose money. Now that I have some BTC, I expect it to drop. My luck is THAT good.


do me a favor, let me know when you are getting ready to buy some real estate

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> Wow, can you guys get your money out or is the system locked?


I think a couple of exchanges are still open.

----------


## newbitech

as far as getting USD out of Mt. Gox, I just noticed they have something called OKPAY.  gonna see about moving USD over to btc-e with that.

----------


## ronpaulfollower999

> as far as getting USD out of Mt. Gox, I just noticed they have something called OKPAY.  gonna see about moving USD over to btc-e with that.


Let us know how it goes. Never thought of doing it like that.

----------


## newbitech

> Let us know how it goes. Never thought of doing it like that.



will do.  I set up the OKPAY with email only (they asked for phone number, but it can be fake).

Did the email validation with OKPAY and logged in.  Their transfer fee is .5% max $2.99.

I got the OKPAY "wallet" id and plugged that in over at the Mt. Gox option.  

Now Mt. Gox is validating, for the last 10 mins or so.

----------


## presence

*newbitech*

thoughts?

buy and hold 62.50 - > sell 82.50 over 1PM to 3PM EST btce

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btce...zi2gAroonOsczv

----------


## jtap

> do me a favor, let me know when you are getting ready to buy some real estate


I will give you a heads up when I plan to buy again.

----------


## presence

> *newbitech*
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> buy and hold 62.50 - > sell 82.50 over 1PM to 3PM EST btce
> 
> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btce...zi2gAroonOsczv





Parabolic SAR, dots high and down

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btce...nOsczvzcvzpszl

----------


## newbitech

> *newbitech*
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> buy and hold 62.50 - > sell 82.50 over 1PM to 3PM EST btce
> 
> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btce...zi2gAroonOsczv


well, over all, i'd say wait until Mt. Gox opens and buy the dip off that.  

But if you want to day trade on this other platform, this is the chart setup I'd be using from this site.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btce...zi4gAccDistzps

Basically, I don't even think this market needs the advanced indicators.  Volume and price levels and some basic trend/candlestick analysis work great. 

Anyways, so looking at the hourly chart, you can see the reversal doji coming off the lows.  Huge volume confirms the reversal candle.  

So now kind of follow the volume trend for the next 2 hours.  lighter and lighter volume.  So the price creeps back up on weakness.   If you notice, that coincides with the low from last nights sell off on huge volume.  and pretty close to the low reached when mt gox shut down.  So you are hitting powerful resistance at these levels.

Next, you can see the pattern is a downward wedge.  This is bullish and that would be confirmed in the macro indicators i have displayed. As you cans see, the RSI is coming off oversold conditions, distribution has bottomed out, the macd is start to bend upwards so we are getting convergence, so you'll be getting a buy signal confirmation on that really soon.  

Now, that being said, the big probably I have with thinking about putting in at these levels is 2 fold.  1.) Volume is very low so this is not conviction buying accept off the lows.  I would have a bid in somewhere around the bottom bollinger band wich looks like around 70 if I was looking to get in.  It is doubtful you'll see sub 70 price levels until we get some more accumulation.  

2.) the resistance levels are pretty solid around 100 bucks.  any light volume move into the 90+ range is going to get beaten back i believe.

So your really narrowed into a gap of about 70-90 bucks.  To me it's not a great entry at all unless you really have a good reason to believe that the wedge pattern is legit and is going to confirm.

I don't because this exchange is light volume, and I don't think it will break the resistence stacked in between 90-100 ish.

You could narrow into a smaller time scale and run the same analysis, but I can already tell you from the 1 hour chart that 90 bucks is a selling price at this time, and more than likely the short spans are going to occillate around the 80 bucks level until we get some more volume.  

And yeah looking at the 5 minute, macd is about to throw a sell signal.  and you have a little bit of a symetrical triangle going on which is continuation of that higher volume down.  

So if you want in, I'd set the level at something like$69-71 and hold it till about where it is now.  But once you get in at that level, get out if it breaks below 60.

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## cubical

> Lead me to the trough...  do you have a buy point in mind?


Yes.. Never

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## newbitech

> Yes.. Never



that's not really a buy point.  Just sayin.  If anything, this phenomenon has given everyone a chance to know what it's like to move real assets around in an unregulated free market.

I think for me so far, it has been worth the price of admission, which can be as little as 20 bucks, just to get a feel for what free market trading would be like.  

So if you think of it that way, I think some of the skepticism has to come off a smidgen.  Don't get me wrong, I am a total BTC critic, but at the same time I think it's only fair to take the small risk and get a sense for what its really about.  

At least I can say, i've been there, done that.  

You'll just be able to say "told ya so".  Which, honestly, is worthy of criticism in and of itself.

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## newbitech

theres your entry point right here if you want to day trade this until gox comes online. it'll probably be stuck in the 65-90 range, so try and get in around 67-69 and get out around 85-87, repeat repeat repeat until you see some major volume moves or trend reverse.  Dont get caught on the wrong side!

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## newbitech

btw, mt. gox still waiting to validate OKPAY..

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## Romulus

Ok who can't log into their blockchain wallet? I get a password error. Yay.

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## muh_roads

> Ok who can't log into their blockchain wallet? I get a password error. Yay.


Contact support immediately.

Have you received any e-mails about BTC payments sent somewhere or login info has changed?

Do you have two-factor authentication enabled?

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Ok who can't log into their blockchain wallet? I get a password error. Yay.


Mine works.

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## Romulus

shoot, false alarm, my caps lock was stuck on and no light to tell me that. :P

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## muh_roads

> Has max keiser said anything about the crash? He led his followers to the slaughter.


Peter Schiff also led his listeners to the slaughter in 2008.

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## presence

> shoot, false alarm, my caps lock was stuck on and no light to tell me that. :P




reset pacemaker

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## Romulus

I'm not jumping out, but what is BTCPak Withdraw? Is it basically sent to a third party which then puts it in your Paypal?

Also, do you think stores are going to keep accepting Bitcoin for PM's if they are going to look value on btc?

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## Romulus

> Has max keiser said anything about the crash? He led his followers to the slaughter.


I never trusted him... He was pumping Silver like crazy claiming it was crash Bank of America if we all bought it.

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## muh_roads

> shoot, false alarm, my caps lock was stuck on and no light to tell me that. :P


That's good.  Investigate setting up two-factor authentication for yourself please.  I made a thread about it...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...n-t-get-hacked

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## LibertyRevolution

My silver is still worth 3.5x what I paid for it. 
I am holding long, very long, for my kids, or when SHTF. 

Bitcoin just seems way to sketchy.. I need something something physical I can pile in stacks. :/

I hope not to many RPF people lost money on this bitcoin thing.

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## juleswin

> Peter Schiff also led his listeners to the slaughter in 2008.



This is the 2nd time for Max Keiser in 3 yrs. The man cannot be trusted ever again. I bet he pulled out before the crash

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## MRK

I've said it before and I'll say it again, even WoW gold/resources have more utility, less volatility and a higher market cap than Bitcoin (and I despise the game).

I think the people who jump onto the Bitcoin bandwagon could have learned a lot about 'virtual currencies' and their striking parallels with 'virtual game currencies' if they've been playing MMORPGs for the past 15 years like I have.

Exploit fast, exploit early (early pioneers get the windfalls)? Check.
Online, anonymous transactions (although obviously bitcoin is arguably more anonymous)? Check.
Can turn them into dollars? Check.
Can spend them in specialized markets (illegal activity or unregulated activity for bitcoins, virutal game worlds for MMO gold)? Check.

That all being said, Bitcoin has its place, and I wish it the best.

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## MRK

> I've said it before and I'll say it again, even WoW gold/resources have more utility, less volatility and a higher market cap than Bitcoin (and I despise the game).
> 
> I think the people who jump onto the Bitcoin bandwagon could have learned a lot about 'virtual currencies' and their striking parallels with 'virtual game currencies' if they've been playing MMORPGs for the past 15 years like I have.
> 
> Exploit fast, exploit early (early pioneers get the windfalls)? Check.
> Online, anonymous transactions (although obviously bitcoin is arguably more anonymous)? Check.
> Can turn them into dollars? Check.
> Can spend them in specialized markets (illegal or unregulated activity for bitcoins, virutal game worlds for MMO gold)? Check.
> 
> That all being said, Bitcoin has its place, and I wish it the best.


I must also add that, once the virtual game stops becoming popular due to the next big game out on the market that has a new killer feature (litecoins et al, anyone?) The currency CRASHES like you would not believe in a period of 3-6 months.

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## muh_roads

> This is the 2nd time for Max Keiser in 3 yrs. The man cannot be trusted ever again. I bet he pulled out before the crash


My point was that things go down, things go up.

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## presence

> I must also add that, once the virtual game stops becoming popular due to the next big game out on the market that has a new killer feature (litecoins et al, anyone?) The currency CRASHES like you would not believe in a period of 3-6 months.


When (if) bitcoin crashes relative to another coin... I'll be trading the parabolic ltc/btc ratio.

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## unknown

Why didnt I buy any?

FML

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