# Lifestyles & Discussion > Peace Through Religion >  Hungout at a Non-Theist Meetup.

## VIDEODROME

Thought this was an interesting experience.  I've recently moved to an area closer to a city where I can more easily find a gathering like this and attend.  

The main theme of the group is appreciation of Science and concepts of Evolution from Darwin.  Not sure I'd say Atheism is the main way they identify their group.  They're just as welcoming to Agnostics or people who generally consider themselves Skeptics, Humanists, Philosophers, or Secularists.  

Personally, I have not stated to any family or relatives that I'm a skeptic.  It's a very emotionally charged topic, especially with my Irish Catholic mom.  So I enjoyed this opportunity to hangout and casually chat with other Non-Believers.  

Oddly enough, one of them told me that some Atheists chillout at the Unitarian Universalist church, but they just chat over coffee while the more religious types participate in the boring rituals and hymns and such.  I had been curious about the UU church so I was glad to get this info.  

The next Meetup is a Science discussion about Bee Colony Collapse.  So it's not all just about dumping on religion and belief in God(s).  I'd say they're more about discussion science as it can apply to current events.  

 Just thought I'd share this experience with the other Non-Theists here.

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## fr33

It's interesting to hear about. I wouldn't want to attend meetings to talk about God or a lack of one but would be interested to talk and learn about science.

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## Sola_Fide

> I've recently moved to an area closer to a city where I can more easily find a gathering like this and attend.  
> 
> The main theme of the group is appreciation of Science and concepts of Evolution from Darwin.


To get this kind of experience,  why don't you just go to school, or university?   Or participate in government?   

Darwinism is the established religion in all those spheres.  Why do you need another special meet up?

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## Natural Citizen

> Not sure I'd say Atheism is the main way they identify their group.  They're just as welcoming to Agnostics or people who generally consider themselves Skeptics, Humanists, Philosophers, or Secularists.


We find that the "Atheist" label is more of a socially acceptable term that is applied to those who are interested in the sciences for the simple luxury of simulating controversy that keeps Religion relevant to it. If that makes sense. Kind of a Hegelian principle of sorts. Gives them a self fulfilling reason to argue and defend their faith even if you or those that you congregate with in the science community ever attacked it. And you are a part of the science community if you choose to participate in these things.

Good for you though. This is something we usually see in youth whom migrate away from the Church. Many of which are turned off by the social narcissism found in the various organized religious platforms.

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## fr33

> To get this kind of experience,  why don't you just go to school, or university?   Or participate in government?   
> 
> Darwinism is the established religion in all those spheres.  Why do you need another special meet up?


It's going to shock you but not all non-theists believe everything they were taught in school.

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## VIDEODROME

Well... the next meetup will be a science chat about Bee Colony Collapse.  I think that is a valid topic and I"m doubtful schools or government are places to have a serious discussion about it.  

Anyway, I just finished an Associates for IT.  I'm not going to spend that kind of money to learn biology.  I'd rather just read up on it during my own freetime with my Kindle.  

Plus... tonight we all went out for BBQ.  That there beats School and Government venues.

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## Sola_Fide

> It's going to shock you but not all non-theists believe everything they were taught in school.


Why not?  Darwinism is the established religion in public schools and universities.

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## ClydeCoulter

> Why not?  Darwinism is the established religion in public schools and universities.


Is your candle lit?

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## fr33

> It's going to shock you but not all non-theists believe everything they were taught in school.





> Why not?  Darwinism is the established religion in public schools and universities.


Someone asked me not to feed you but it's just too easy because you ask the dumbest questions. The answer is in my post that you quoted. I don't know why you can't read or comprehend anything...

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## Natural Citizen

> I'd rather just read up on it during my own freetime with my Kindle.  
> 
> Plus... tonight we all went out for BBQ.  That there beats School and Government venues.


Dang. Yer not kidding. Last time I went to Church, all we had was some cookies and juice afterward. Although, to be fair, sunrise service to celebrate the Winter Solstice comes with pancakes and sausage after.

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## KCIndy

> Well... the next meetup will be a science chat about Bee Colony Collapse.  I think that is a valid topic and I"m doubtful schools or government are places to have a serious discussion about it.



I've been looking into the Bee Colony Collapse problem, and I finally discovered what was wrong.

Turns out the last couple generations of bees are a bunch of slackers.

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## mczerone

> I've been looking into the Bee Colony Collapse problem, and I finally discovered what was wrong.
> 
> Turns out the last couple generations of bees are a bunch of slackers.


You're missing the secret evidence! Bee Colony Collapse is an inside job! Look at how colony 7 collapsed!

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## VIDEODROME

I had never been to this place before, so I got a sandwich called the Double Decker.  Half pulled port and half beef brisket.

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## Natural Citizen

> Well... the next meetup will be a science chat about Bee Colony Collapse.


Here you go, V. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ght=beeologics

I see that the trolling has started with the colony 7 flyby. Anything to discourage that kind of discussion. Right? Some are a loyal and persistent brood, for sure.

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## heavenlyboy34

> Thought this was an interesting experience.  I've recently moved to an area closer to a city where I can more easily find a gathering like this and attend.  
> 
> The main theme of the group is appreciation of Science and concepts of Evolution from Darwin.  Not sure I'd say Atheism is the main way they identify their group.  They're just as welcoming to Agnostics or people who generally consider themselves Skeptics, Humanists, Philosophers, or Secularists.  
> 
> Personally, I have not stated to any family or relatives that I'm a skeptic.  It's a very emotionally charged topic, especially with my Irish Catholic mom.  So I enjoyed this opportunity to hangout and casually chat with other Non-Believers.  
> 
> Oddly enough, one of them told me that some Atheists chillout at the Unitarian Universalist church, but they just chat over coffee while the more religious types participate in the boring rituals and hymns and such.  I had been curious about the UU church so I was glad to get this info.  
> 
> The next Meetup is a Science discussion about Bee Colony Collapse.  So it's not all just about dumping on religion and belief in God(s).  I'd say they're more about discussion science as it can apply to current events.  
> ...


Sounds rather like the atheist version of a non-denominational church service.  Glad you found something you enjoy. ~hugs~

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## mczerone

> Thought this was an interesting experience.  I've recently moved to an area closer to a city where I can more easily find a gathering like this and attend.  
> 
> The main theme of the group is appreciation of Science and concepts of Evolution from Darwin.  Not sure I'd say Atheism is the main way they identify their group.  They're just as welcoming to Agnostics or people who generally consider themselves Skeptics, Humanists, Philosophers, or Secularists.  
> 
> Personally, I have not stated to any family or relatives that I'm a skeptic.  It's a very emotionally charged topic, especially with my Irish Catholic mom.  So I enjoyed this opportunity to hangout and casually chat with other Non-Believers.  
> 
> Oddly enough, one of them told me that some Atheists chillout at the Unitarian Universalist church, but they just chat over coffee while the more religious types participate in the boring rituals and hymns and such.  I had been curious about the UU church so I was glad to get this info.  
> 
> The next Meetup is a Science discussion about Bee Colony Collapse.  So it's not all just about dumping on religion and belief in God(s).  I'd say they're more about discussion science as it can apply to current events.  
> ...


I'm interested in finding or starting something like this in my area.

Every group that I share some interest with seems to be uncontrollably hostile with another aspect of my being.

I hope that you aren't in a never-ending battle trying to explain why the problems probably stem from the State and the solutions don't.

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## mczerone

> Here you go, V. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ght=beeologics
> 
> I see that the trolling has started with the colony 7 flyby. Anything to discourage that kind of discussion. Right? Some are a loyal and persistent brood, for sure.


And some take jokes (notice the smile at the end of my post) a little too personally.

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## VIDEODROME

The conversation didn't get very directly political, but I got the impression the UU Non-Theist hangout group included a good amount of Libertarians.

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## Natural Citizen

> And some take jokes (notice the smile at the end of my post) a little too personally.


Yes...well...it looked like a $#@! eating grin to me. 

P.S. Sorry to curse in your thread, V. Of course, the bee colony collapse is a very serious issue and a high impact phenomenon. It's an issue where discussion regarding it certainly should not be discouraged by publicly insinuating that those who do approach it should be given the same social/political meme as those who question more regarding the building 7 thing. And that's exactly what just happened.

In fact, if time permits, maybe consider introducing that phenomeon into the discussion. Meaning the labels that people receive from those who may take issue with the substance or premise in issues such as these. It's unfortunate that people who are concerned with these kinds of things are usually at the receiving end of this kind of fly by ad hominem. And, yes, those who practice it on various social networks and discussion platforms do think that they are very, very amusing.

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## otherone

> The conversation didn't get very directly political, but I got the impression the UU Non-Theist hangout group included a good amount of Libertarians.


An iconoclast is an iconoclast.

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## RJB

> Why not?  Darwinism is the established religion in public schools and universities.



The Ronpaulforums attracts people who see through the two party system.  I usually credit any regular poster with a mind that sees things beyond what's in the box, no matter their beliefs.

You are a different bird.  Reading your "responses" to people you seem to categorize them as intellectual caricatures.  You answer your imagined boogie man of the poster versus what they actually wrote or their posting history.  A conversation with you is startlingly similar to the guy in the movie Momento who suffered short term memory loss.

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## RJB

> Well... the next meetup will be a science chat about Bee Colony Collapse.  I think that is a valid topic and I"m doubtful schools or government are places to have a serious discussion about it.  
> 
> Anyway, I just finished an Associates for IT.  I'm not going to spend that kind of money to learn biology.  I'd rather just read up on it during my own freetime with my Kindle.


A lot of what you've describe sounds like the Ron Paul meet up group in my area.

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## mczerone

> Yes...well...it looked like a $#@! eating grin to me. 
> 
> P.S. Sorry to curse in your thread, V. Of course, the bee colony collapse is a very serious issue and a high impact phenomenon. It's an issue where discussion regarding it certainly should not be discouraged by publicly insinuating that those who do approach it should be given the same social/political meme as those who question more regarding the building 7 thing. And that's exactly what just happened.
> 
> In fact, if time permits, maybe consider introducing that phenomeon into the discussion. Meaning the labels that people receive from those who may take issue with the substance or premise in issues such as these. It's unfortunate that people who are concerned with these kinds of things are usually at the receiving end of this kind of fly by ad hominem. And, yes, those who practice it on various social networks and discussion platforms do think that they are very, very amusing.


I apologize for not being more tactful in my joke. I definitely did not want to characterize people who are concerned with bee colony collapse with the same social disdain being foisted on those interested in 9/11.

While I have no firm opinions on what actually happened on 9/11, I tend to sympathize more with the questioners. Unfortunately I've found that many of the individuals who might be labeled "truthers" are too eager to make a mockery of themselves through their communication methods, the theories they actually believe, the outlandish interpretation of some evidence that truly has a mundane explanation, and the ferocity with which they defend the whole of their beliefs (even though some are easily shown to be wrong or contradictory with other of their beliefs).

Which brings me back to the topic of the thread: finding good groups of associations.

I consider myself a skeptic, but organized groups of skeptics seem to have a rote manual of acceptable beliefs (e.g. definitely no god(s) of any sort, official govt stories are always true, man-made climate change is true, horrible, and requires immediate govt action, and public schools are good, but "we" have to control the curriculum).

I'm concerned about food freedom, but organized groups focused on this topic again hold consensus beliefs I can't wholeheartedly support (e.g every "weird" food will cure cancer, govt must force labeling of GMOs, every GMO is inherently bad and causes cancer, anything "industrial" or "capitalist" is bad, general "woo" about health and healing without regard for the scientific method, and strong socialist tendencies)

I care about helping my local community, but organized groups focus on areas I'd rather not support: cleaning up city/county run parks, volunteering at city/county run shelters, pushing for laws creating more social welfare, a general distrust of business giving support to their causes, and a reverence for govt schools and making them "work better".

I'll need to look into UU and see if there's a good group in my area.

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## Natural Citizen

> I apologize for not being more tactful in my joke. I definitely did not want to characterize people who are concerned with bee colony collapse with the same social disdain being foisted on those interested in 9/11.
> 
> While I have no firm opinions on what actually happened on 9/11, I tend to sympathize more with the questioners. Unfortunately I've found that many of the individuals who might be labeled "truthers" are too eager to make a mockery of themselves through their communication methods, the theories they actually believe, the outlandish interpretation of some evidence that truly has a mundane explanation, and the ferocity with which they defend the whole of their beliefs (even though some are easily shown to be wrong or contradictory with other of their beliefs).
> 
> Which brings me back to the topic of the thread: finding good groups of associations.
> 
> I consider myself a skeptic, but organized groups of skeptics seem to have a rote manual of acceptable beliefs (e.g. definitely no god(s) of any sort, official govt stories are always true, man-made climate change is true, horrible, and requires immediate govt action, and public schools are good, but "we" have to control the curriculum).
> 
> I'm concerned about food freedom, but organized groups focused on this topic again hold consensus beliefs I can't wholeheartedly support (e.g every "weird" food will cure cancer, govt must force labeling of GMOs, every GMO is inherently bad and causes cancer, anything "industrial" or "capitalist" is bad, general "woo" about health and healing without regard for the scientific method, and strong socialist tendencies)
> ...


Well, I, for one, can't and won't disagree that organization among politically and socially driven people can and does often lead to a conflict of interest.

Cripes, mczerone. Why didn't you just say that to begin with? There's nothing wrong at all with that.

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## VIDEODROME

Part 2:  

I went to the hangout at the UU church.  I guess at 9am they start playing a short video and later have a discussion about it.  Today was a video about Jewish Biblical law.  We talked about that; then history in general.  I think next week will be a science video.  

At 10:30 am is the service.  The atheist who introduced me to this place actually skips the service lol.  As a new visitor, I decided to check it out.  I'm not really big on Hymn Singing, Ritual, or the Minister readings with Congregation response type stuff.  Sprinkled through this though were some interesting sermons.  

I would like to return and hangout with the Skeptics again though.

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## VIDEODROME

Haven't been back to the UU church, but I went to another Meetup tonight.  One of the members hosted a gathering and a topic was introduced on Plants and Humans on co-evolution from a video.  The video had a lot of subjects, but we watched the one on the Marijuana plant as it is tied to human culture through history and recently with politics.  

Oddly enough, it was shown how Marijuana has kind of thrived as a result of Human Prohibition.  From plant breeding it is stronger and more potent.  Humans care for the plants under crazy circumstances despite the risk of jail.  It also talked about the compatibility of THC with recepters in the brain.  

I'm sure this is familiar ground for many here, but just emphasizing this isn't just "Religion Hate Night".  It's mostly a group interested in science and looking at the world we live in.  Most of them find religion unsatisfying, but interestingly I'm told a few members are still religious.  They happen to be very into Science and Darwinian Evolution.  

Anyway, I just enjoyed being around people that have a very casual and skeptical attitude about religions.

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## pcosmar

> Anyway, I just enjoyed being around people that have a very casual and skeptical attitude about religions.


Well,, I am quite skeptical of religion as well,, but still have faith in God.
And I enjoy science as well. Where do you get the idea that believers are Anti-Science? I do reject some Theory,, and pose an alternate theory on some points.
I also oppose some pseudoscience. But I do not oppose True Science.

I find Faith and science to be compatible and complementary.
But then,, i am a rather irreligious believer.

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## Brett85

My hardcore liberal uncle attends a so called "Unitarian universalist" church.  It's not even a real "church" at all.  The only belief they have in common with Christianity is that they believe in God.  Other than that, they basically just say that "every religion is good,' since the story of Adam and Eve is a fable, original sin isn't true, and there wasn't any need for Jesus to die for the sins of the world.  He was just killed by the Romans because he led a popular uprising.    It's not a real church at all.

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## Terry1

> My hardcore liberal uncle attends a so called "Unitarian universalist" church.  It's not even a real "church" at all.  The only belief they have in common with Christianity is that they believe in God.  Other than that, they basically just say that "every religion is good,' since the story of Adam and Eve is a fable, original sin isn't true, and there wasn't any need for Jesus to die for the sins of the world.  He was just killed by the Romans because he led a popular uprising.    It's not a real church at all.


A lot of people are searching for answers, a lot of them just end up in the wrong places for a lot of different reasons.  Mankind has this innate need to associate themselves with *groups* because they're all searching for a *cause* to believe in.  This is what sin did to mankind, they don't understand themselves why they feel the need to *belong* to something and to *serve* a *cause*.

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## Todd

I found it interesting about the Non-Theists creating their own Churches.  They get together in large groups have a speaker who says lots of neat stuff and play and sing music.   

In my day we called that a Rock Concert.

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## Schifference

Seems like a very accepting inclusive group. Why do you feel they are not a "real church"? 


> My hardcore liberal uncle attends a so called "Unitarian universalist" church.  It's not even a real "church" at all.  The only belief they have in common with Christianity is that they believe in God.  Other than that, they basically just say that "every religion is good,' since the story of Adam and Eve is a fable, original sin isn't true, and there wasn't any need for Jesus to die for the sins of the world.  He was just killed by the Romans because he led a popular uprising.    It's not a real church at all.

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## Schifference

> A lot of people are searching for answers, a lot of them just end up in the wrong places for a lot of different reasons.  Mankind has this innate need to associate themselves with *groups* because they're all searching for a *cause* to believe in.  This is what sin did to mankind, they don't understand themselves why they feel the need to *belong* to something and to *serve* a *cause*.


How is the "wrong place" or right place determined? What is wrong with "every religion is good"?

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## VIDEODROME

> Where do you get the idea that believers are Anti-Science?


What I meant was this group valued science discussion over religion.  Also, I was just making a point that the group was more than an Atheist huddle talking about how "religion sucks". They don't sit around dwelling on Atheism and arguing against Theism.   

I do get the impression that some religious people are opposed to the idea of Evolution for different reasons, but some other religious people accept it.  

Mostly though, I enjoyed being in a group that is cool with religious doubt and skepticism.  As opposed to much of my family that is really hardcore Catholic still.  I have never brought up skepticism with them.  I think my mom would freakout on me.

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## Brett85

> Seems like a very accepting inclusive group. Why do you feel they are not a "real church"?


They're not a Christian church.  I'll put it that way.

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## pcosmar

> Mostly though, I enjoyed being in a group that is cool with religious doubt and skepticism.


Ah,, well that part I can understand.. and I share it despite having a Faith in God. I think Religion had done more harm than good overall.
It obscures Spiritual truth and buries it under ritual and tradition.

I do wonder,, and you can pose this question there,, What of ethical considerations? Are there any? what is the basis for them?

That is my only real issue with some science.. The apparent lack of any ethical considerations.

_for example;_
MK Ultra
Eugenics and Forced sterilization
Genetic manipulation, (super humans/Master Race)
Unintended consequences.

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## eduardo89

> What is wrong with "every religion is good"?


The fact that it's false.

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## Christian Liberty

> My hardcore liberal uncle attends a so called "Unitarian universalist" church.  It's not even a real "church" at all.  The only belief they have in common with Christianity is that they believe in God.  Other than that, they basically just say that "every religion is good,' since the story of Adam and Eve is a fable, original sin isn't true, and there wasn't any need for Jesus to die for the sins of the world.  He was just killed by the Romans because he led a popular uprising.    It's not a real church at all.


Wow, are you "judging" now?

This should prove my point that judging is not inherently wrong.

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## VIDEODROME

I should add that I'm now in the South surrounded by huge Baptist churches.  Religion has a big presence in Alabama.  So it's nice to find a group like this. 

As for ethics, that hasn't specifically come up in the group discussions yet.  I really think though that some TED talks by Sam Harris are really in line with how the typical Atheist feels.  

Also, even the Dalai Lama as a Buddhist has led interesting discussions of Secular Ethics.  He plainly states the situation we have which is a world with multiple religions and Gods.  Promoting open discussion and recognizing ethics as coming from our humanity can help everyone to find common ground and at least get along in the world.

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## pcosmar

> As for ethics, that hasn't specifically come up in the group discussions yet.  I really think though that some TED talks by Sam Harris are really in line with how the typical Atheist feels.  
> 
> Also, even the Dalai Lama as a Buddhist has led interesting discussions of Secular Ethics.  He plainly states the situation we have which is a world with multiple religions and Gods.  Promoting open discussion and recognizing ethics as coming from our humanity can help everyone to find common ground and at least get along in the world.


Multiple religions yes..multiple gods,,,not so much.

but ethical considerations, or the apparent lack thereof is really my only issue with science.

And that lack of ethics has had some effects. As well as the politicization of science.

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## VIDEODROME

Well, scientists created the nuclear bomb, but politicians used it. 

Somewhere in those areas is where we should certainly want wise people making ethical decisions.  It's difficult when even an ethical scientist could have their invention turned to unethical uses by politicians or even corporations.

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## pcosmar

> Well, scientists created the nuclear bomb, but politicians used it. 
> 
> Somewhere in those areas is where we should certainly want wise people making ethical decisions.  It's difficult when even an ethical scientist could have their invention turned to unethical uses by politicians or even corporations.


Ethical scientists could have refused to turn an energy source into such a weapon. the politicians would have been unable to do it without them.

It was Eugenics (based on Darwinism) that led to Forced sterilizations here,, and attempted genocide in Europe.

Are you familiar with the movie "Serenity"? The hero of that story (an atheist) makes the point quite well.

A very good movie if you have never seen it.




Ethical scientists could have refused to create the Mind Control Drugs for the government during the MK Ultra program.
But they did not.

Ethical scientists would be asking serious questions about genetic manipulation,, and the unintended consequences.

But then,, I think the industrial revolution was a mistake,, of at best, poorly handled.

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## Brett85

> Wow, are you "judging" now?
> 
> This should prove my point that judging is not inherently wrong.


I don't judge an individual person and say whether that person will make it to heaven or not, but I can judge a particular church and say that they don't teach Biblical doctrines.  And I generally try to come across as respectful to others when I disagree with them or criticize what they believe in.  Although I don't claim to be a perfect person either.

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## VIDEODROME

> It was Eugenics (based on Darwinism) that led to Forced sterilizations here,, and attempted genocide in Europe.


Well yeah that's kind of what I mean. Taking observations of Darwin and distorting them to justifying those kinds of actions. To me, Eugenics seems very far from slow Natural Selection.  

But yes, Serentiy is a great movie.

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## pcosmar

> But yes, Serentiy is a great movie.


Yup,, same thing.

Social controllers,,scientists manipulating people.  "to weed out aggression" created the Reavers.

Some considerations to contemplate.. and questions to pose to the group.

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## Schifference

Would it be ethical for scientists to hide or not reveal their discoveries while being paid or funded? Should we be told that certain chemicals are poison or toxic? Is the knowledge or discovery unethical or what people do with it? What is the difference between a nuclear bomb and a handgun? Is it the gun or the person that uses it to kill?

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## Terry1

> How is the "wrong place" or right place determined? What is wrong with "every religion is good"?


It's whatever your frame of reference is for what one perceives as "good".  It's all relative to whatever you choose to believe. It's not so much that all religions are good or bad, it's that we're free to choose which one if any we want to associate ourselves with.  I just imagine soon enough it will be illegal to say anything bad about any one or anything and considered a "hate crime" to have an opinion.  Shall we discuss self-defeating causes now?  Let's start with the lunatics who associate themselves with the Freedom From Religion Org.  They'd like to silence all religions just so they can find peace within themselves.

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## VIDEODROME

Well... I also think answering these questions about ethics is a little beyond the scope of the thread topic.  I mostly wanted to share my experience as a non-believer especially since I'm now living in the South.  

I'm surrounded by huge Churches.  My family is still all Catholic.  In this sense I feel very much in a minority and social pressure to conceal my skepticism.  I will basically just nod in agreement to religious comments like when somebody says they're praying for something. 

It's interesting also during Thanksgiving or Christmas holidays if politics brews up like from the Duck Dynasty thing.  People will throw in their 2 cents.  One of my uncles during a Thanksgiving visit declaired Gay people and Atheists should be deported.  

So with that background, hanging out with this group was a refreshing experience.

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## Terry1

> Well... I also think answering these questions about ethics is a little beyond the scope of the thread topic.  I mostly wanted to share my experience as a non-believer especially since I'm now living in the South.  
> 
> I'm surrounded by huge Churches.  My family is still all Catholic.  In this sense I feel very much in a minority and social pressure to conceal my skepticism.  I will basically just nod in agreement to religious comments like when somebody says they're praying for something. 
> 
> It's interesting also during Thanksgiving or Christmas holidays if politics brews up like from the Duck Dynasty thing.  People will throw in their 2 cents.  One of my uncles during a Thanksgiving visit declaired Gay people and Atheists should be deported.  
> 
> So with that background, hanging out with this group was a refreshing experience.


 I know what you're talking about with the family holiday gatherings.  I have one relative I try to avoid at every holiday gathering.  He's this big mouth racist who hates gays, feminists and thinks God is a Republican.

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## Schifference

I believe that a non-believer is spurned. Have you ever seen a video of a town meeting where someone speaks something unpopular and the meeting gets closed or the person gets escorted out in handcuffs? That is kind of the way the non-believer is treated. As soon as someone states that they don't believe in god all of a sudden they are considered evil. I am glad you found a group where you can fraternize rather than be demonized.  


> Well... I also think answering these questions about ethics is a little beyond the scope of the thread topic.  I mostly wanted to share my experience as a non-believer especially since I'm now living in the South.  
> 
> I'm surrounded by huge Churches.  My family is still all Catholic.  In this sense I feel very much in a minority and social pressure to conceal my skepticism.  I will basically just nod in agreement to religious comments like when somebody says they're praying for something. 
> 
> It's interesting also during Thanksgiving or Christmas holidays if politics brews up like from the Duck Dynasty thing.  People will throw in their 2 cents.  One of my uncles during a Thanksgiving visit declaired Gay people and Atheists should be deported.  
> 
> So with that background, hanging out with this group was a refreshing experience.

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## Christian Liberty

> I don't judge an individual person and say whether that person will make it to heaven or not, but I can judge a particular church and say that they don't teach Biblical doctrines.  And I generally try to come across as respectful to others when I disagree with them or criticize what they believe in.  Although I don't claim to be a perfect person either.


I usually try to be respectful too, but I get especially ticked at a specific two groups that I won't name here because you ultimately can't have a Biblical argument with them despite the fact that they claim to be Christian.  They'll simply cite their church traditions when you prove their doctrines unbiblical.    Also, nobody here has ever judged who will or will not make it to heaven.  I will say universalists are unregenerate, but some of them might be elect.

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## VIDEODROME

Been to this meetup a few more times.  I'm going to a new one that is a different group in this area.  We're all going for Chinese food for the meetup and I've been meaning to checkout this restaurant anyway.  

I have to admit, I haven't been back to the UU church.  It's hard to drag my lazy ass out of bed on a Sunday morning.  I'm in the habit of staying up late on Saturday and sleeping in.

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