# News & Current Events > U.S. Political News >  BREAKING:  Theater shooting in Aurora CO - 20 wounded and 12 dead.

## tangent4ronpaul

Midnight showing of new Batman movie on it's release and on the first appearance of batman 2 gunmen wearing bullet proof vests and gasmasks lobbed teargas grenades and started firing randomly into the crowd with military style rifles.  Among the dead are children and a baby.  One gunman in custody, the other on the loose.

-t

update1:  number of wounded has increased to 30-40.
update2:  14 dead, 39 transported to 3 hospitals, other wounded being stabilized on scene for later transport.  Now saying just one gunman w/ rifle and pistol.  explosives or an incendiary found in his car and reports of additional explosives in his apartment.  FBI and gang unit on scene.  Make that 50 injured.  10 died on site, 4 later in the hospital.

303 695 2600 - Aurora medical center in case you know someone that was at the theater last night that hasn't come back.  The other Hospitals are Swedish and University Medical Center.  Don't have numbers for them yet.  At lease 20 sent to Aurora medical center.
Swedish 303       18yo M released, 20yo F critical condition, 29yo M critical condition. 
University of Colorado 303      20 patients ranging from minor injuries to critical condition.  All with gunshot wounds.  handful of which are teens.
Children's Hospital 303



Century 16 theater in Aurora Colorado.  Movie was sold out.  Batman was showing in theater 9 (shooting) as well as 2 others.  Bullets penetrated theater walls and at least 5 hit in adjacent theater.  
Gunman is 24yo  had 2 handguns and 1 long gun.   Has residence in Aurora, unconfirmed that his car had TN plates.  FBI just said that so far there is no indication of connection w/ terrorism.  He's Caucasian.  I guess the butterfly net kid...  Bomb squad is still checking out the outside of his apartment for boobytraps.  Neighborhood has been evacuated.  

15 dead now.

twitter: @theatershooting  #tragedy

Shooters name is James Homes

gunmans apt is boobytraped. mixed reports that cops are finally in via window and still waiting.  apparently trip wires tied to bottles containing unknown liquid.  chlorate/acid?   He dropped out of a PhD program in medicine (neuroscience) recently.  PhD students actually crack more often than you would think, but usually only kill their adviser.

The baby and 6yo apparently survived.

another briefing in about 10 minutes.

seating capacity per theater is 300 ppl.  5 of the victims were in an adjacent theater.

Now saying he had 4 firearms - 2 handguns, a rifle and a shotgun.  Also that he had a stockpile of ammo.  Expect restrictions of keeping large quantities of ammo.

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## Czolgosz

I don't see how motherfuckers can be so indiscriminate.

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## aGameOfThrones

14 dead 50 wounded

BTW, it's the new Batman.

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## Feeding the Abscess

New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> 14 dead 50 wounded
> 
> BTW, it's the new Batman.


Thanks - corrected in OP.

-t

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## tangent4ronpaul

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


Screw that! - diff guns have diff uses.  Try hunting quail with a deer rifle.  Try hunting rabbits with a shotgun.  Try hunting deer with a .22  handguns and shotguns are common for self defense.

-t

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## tangent4ronpaul

dup

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## tangent4ronpaul

dup

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## ShT

Is the theatre a gun free zone ?

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## CaptainAmerica

$#@!ing dip$#@! $#@!s,.Damn what the $#@! is wrong with some people?

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## CaptainAmerica

please, just because its a "gun free zone" or a "gun friendly zone" doesnt mean $#@!,they went in pretty quick and shot up a bunch of people before anyone had time to react.

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## Feeding the Abscess

> please, just because its a "gun free zone" or a "gun friendly zone" doesnt mean $#@!,they went in pretty quick and shot up a bunch of people before anyone had time to react.


And tear gas was used. You could have fifty guns and you'd be useless if some dick lobs a few cannisters of tear gas in the room.

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## UtahApocalypse

Now my local news is sensationalizing it as a "terrorist attack"

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## Karsten

> Now my local news is sensationalizing it as a "terrorist attack"


Hm Fox hasn't done that yet, weird.

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## Feeding the Abscess

Wonder if it's a soldier. Kokesh said in a recent podcast that he thinks the next wave of "terrorist attacks" will be ex-soldiers suffering from PTSD or other mental disorders.

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## tangent4ronpaul

FOX has got some former homicide detective - Ron Wheever (sp?) who was speculating wildly and had a much poorer understanding of the facts than the reporters do.  

-t

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## Danke

I bet Iran is behind this...

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## LibertyEagle

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


You're kidding, right?

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## tangent4ronpaul

> I bet Iran is behind this...


yeah - be interesting how this will be spun.  Expect for calls for gun control.  Possibly limiting access to certain self defense items and chemicals...
Will the guy be labled a nut job, a member of AQ, a "homegrown terrorist" or what?  Any way you look at it, it's bad for freedom.
I would have laughed at myself a couple of years for saying this, but with all the BATFE and Justice dept BS, I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't some "Fast and Furious" entrapment/patsy op gone horribly wrong (or right - depending on your perspective.  

-t

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## LibertyEagle

If Obama gets re-elected, there is going to be some gun-grabbing.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> If Obama gets re-elected, there is going to be some gun-grabbing.


That reminds me of the title of a Dead Kennedies(sp?) album...  "A Million Dead Cops"...  

-t

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## AlexAmore

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


_Nobody_ needs more than one? What if I live in a mansion? I'm supposed to run across the house for my gun? What if he's between me and the one single gun I have?

Crazy talk.

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## Noob

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


No just an excuse they need to put the TSA in all theaters, shopping malls, supermarkets, ect...

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## Lafayette

Public outrage and government anti gun rhetoric in 3....2....1...

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## moostraks

> No just an excuse they need to put the TSA in all theaters, shopping malls, supermarkets, ect...


yep...

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## UtahApocalypse

> I bet Iran is behind this...


Getting word that the guy may have ordered pizza from a guy who once rode in a taxi cab that's driver was the cousin of some dude that dated a girls whose grandfather was from Iran. This is for sure an act of war!!

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## tangent4ronpaul

> Getting word that the guy may have ordered pizza from a guy who once rode in a taxi cab that's driver was the cousin of some dude that dated a girls whose grandfather was from Iran. This is for sure an act of war!!


ROTGLMAO!

+rep

-t

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## Cowlesy

> Public outrage and government anti gun rhetoric in 3....2....1...


Yes, and, the heartless but shrewd bastard looks at RGR and SWHC stocks today.

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## tangent4ronpaul

I'm updating the OP post piecemeal.  New info is at a trickle right now, but if you haven't returned to it, there is probably new info for you.

-t

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## ghengis86

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the shooter was probably on some sort of psychotropic drug made by big pharma.  That or a veteran with multiple tours under his belt.

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## Noob

> I'm going to go out on a limb and say the shooter was probably on some sort of psychotropic drug made by big pharma.  That or a veteran with multiple tours under his belt.


Or just some government freemason goon helping to push an agenda.

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## mrsat_98

Theatre Search Agents are next.

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## tangent4ronpaul

> Theatre Search Agents are next.


channel?

-t

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## Petar

> Or just some government freemason goon helping to push an agenda.


Don't derail this into some anti-freemasonic flame war.

Wait until there is something suspicious to report before you start screaming about conspiracies, and realize that most freemasons are regular people, with the leadership being not the only big and powerful group in this world.

I am guessing that suspicious information will probably come out soon as well, but show some decorum at least.

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## ShaneEnochs

> I bet Iran is behind this...


Is it a good time for jokes?

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## Petar

I just realized that two looney toon characters are arguing.

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## DerailingDaTrain

If someone with a gun was allowed to bring it to the theater would he have been able to do this? No. He would have been shot

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## Dr.3D

> Is the theatre a gun free zone ?


Oh it must not have been, there couldn't possibly be a gun in a gun free zone.

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## Bastiat's The Law

The internet was all over that last nutbag in AZ and found his youtube channel and everything.  Where are the internet sleuths?

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## Lafayette

> Is it a good time for jokes?


If the government could some how tie it to Iran they would. Whether used to justify war or limiting our rights they never let a thing( no matter how tragic) like this go to waste.

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## phill4paul

> The internet was all over that last nutbag in AZ and found his youtube channel and everything.  Where are the internet sleuths?


  They just released his name so that is possibly why there is no sleuthing. 

  James Holmes, 24

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## Bastiat's The Law

Twitter talking about one of those killed.. https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield

Check out her last tweet.... 

Jessica Redfield ‏@JessicaRedfield

@jessespector MOVIE DOESN'T START FOR 20 MINUTES

Jessica Redfield ‏@JessicaRedfield

Never thought I'd have to coerce a guy into seeing the midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises with me.

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## cajuncocoa

Waiting to learn the guy is a Ron Paul supporter in 3....2....

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## Noob

just what they needed if this his him

http://denverteaparty.ning.com/profile/JimHolmes

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## Andrew Ryan

> Twitter talking about one of those killed.. https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield
> 
> Check out her last tweet.... 
> 
> Jessica Redfield ‏@JessicaRedfield
> 
> @jessespector MOVIE DOESN'T START FOR 20 MINUTES
> 
> Jessica Redfield ‏@JessicaRedfield
> ...

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Waiting to learn the guy is a Ron Paul supporter in 3....2....


Huh?

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## Dr.3D

> Huh?


The media would just love to pin this on a RP supporter.

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## cajuncocoa

> Huh?


So they can continue their narrative that we're all a bunch of potential domestic terrorists.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> The media would just love to pin this on a RP supporter.


That doesn't make any sense. You can't pin mass murders on people and I don't understand why you guys automatically assume that it will be an RP supporter. Are many of his supporters mentally unstable or something? No

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## GoatsGoneWild

> just what they needed if this his him
> 
> http://denverteaparty.ning.com/profile/JimHolmes


People will run wild with this, but I think there is a chance that it's not the same Jim Holmes.  Just by doing a Google search I've found that there's at least one other Jim/James Holmes in that town.

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## Dr.3D

> That doesn't make any sense. You can't pin mass murders on people and I don't understand why you guys automatically assume that it will be an RP supporter. Are many of his supporters mentally unstable or something? No


Because the media knows their viewers are for the most part stupid and tend to group people into groups.  They would try to make it look like RP supporters are mentally unstable.

Of course the logic is stupid... but that's what the media does.

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## FindLiberty

> New law, 1 gun per person.


No, (New law that...)

That's BS and I hope you are kidding.  That's what you will hear 'em fapping about on the news though.

It's sad that crazy happens, but it's even worse to see the "one more law should fix this" reaction to this lone nutcase.

Then there's the problem with copycats watching the news. TSA searches for all public gatherings may be in the pipeline.

I like the idea of staying home when watching a movie (with several loaded guns hidden in the couch cushions).

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## Bastiat's The Law

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


Make guns illegal, so no one can get them, just like drugs.  

no, wait....

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Because the media knows their viewers are for the most part stupid and tend to group people into groups.  They would try to make it look like RP supporters are mentally unstable.
> 
> Of course the logic is stupid... but that's what the media does.


I'm still not sure why you even brought this up. It sounds pretty farfetched

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## ShaneEnochs

Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.

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## Dr.3D

> I'm still not sure why you even brought this up. It sounds pretty farfetched





> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.


Guess you have to have been around here longer to understand what the media does.

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## cajuncocoa

> I'm still not sure why you even brought this up. It sounds pretty farfetched


Dr.3D didn't bring it up; I did.  Just forget about it.

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## ronpaulfollower999

> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.


I'm pretty sure it was somewhat tounge in cheek.

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## PaulConventionWV

> That doesn't make any sense. You can't pin mass murders on people and I don't understand why you guys automatically assume that it will be an RP supporter. Are many of his supporters mentally unstable or something? No


Dude, where have you been?  We're talking about the mass media trying to pin this on us like we're all a bunch of crazy people because they hate us.  He wasn't saying that we are that way, just that our resistance will do that because it has been done before just to try to discredit us.  We're not assuming anything except that they'll say it's a Ron Paul supporter.

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## PaulConventionWV

> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.


The media has been blaming us since 2007.  Haven't you been paying attention?  What's crazy about something that is common knowledge?  Why would it be any different now?  I don't think anybody's saying outright that they're going to blame us, but it's a hunch that is not without its merits.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Dude, where have you been?  We're talking about the mass media trying to pin this on us like we're all a bunch of crazy people because they hate us.  He wasn't saying that we are that way, just that our resistance will do that because it has been done before just to try to discredit us.  We're not assuming anything except that they'll say it's a Ron Paul supporter.


Can you not read?




> Waiting to learn the guy is a Ron Paul supporter in 3....2....





> The media would just love to pin this on a RP supporter.


They said that the media will try to "pin" a mass murder on an RP supporter without knowing anything about the incident. That's strange

When I heard about this my first response wasn't "The media is going to try and frame RP supporters for this, blame us, or try to connect us to it"

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## phill4paul

> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.


  Because the media would NEVER link one's political beliefs to crimes, right? Remember Benjamin Gilmore....

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net...danti-war.html

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## pcosmar

> $#@!ing dip$#@! $#@!s,.Damn what the $#@! is wrong with some people?


My first guess,, would be Big Pharma Drugs+some kind of mental programing.

It won't be released any time soon what kind of Hypnotic was in his system or exactly who was treating (handling) him.

Expect increased "security" and random searches of everyone.

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## kathy88

> People will run wild with this, but I think there is a chance that it's not the same Jim Holmes.  Just by doing a Google search I've found that there's at least one other Jim/James Holmes in that town.


If it is the tea party guy, hopefully it will come out that he did it for Michelle Bachmann.

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## nobody's_hero

> I'm still not sure why you even brought this up. It sounds pretty farfetched


Where were you during the Giffords shooting? 

I kept waiting and waiting for them to say that Loughner was a Ron Paul supporter. I don't know if they ever said so and got away with it, but they said enough to plant seeds of suspicion in the minds of viewers. Kept hearing about Loughner's obsession with the gold-standard. 

See my sig about scapegoats.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Where were you during the Giffords shooting? 
> 
> I kept waiting and waiting for them to say that Loughner was a Ron Paul supporter. I don't know if they ever said so and got away with it, but they said enough to plant seeds of suspicion in the minds of viewers. Kept hearing about Loughner's obsession with the gold-standard. 
> 
> See my sig about scapegoats.


I just did a search and can't find anything about that and he was described as being neither left or right but instead a conspiracy theorist obsessed with the movie Zeitgeist.

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## kathy88

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...2#.UAldD7RfF9W





> A San Diego woman identifying herself as James Holmes's mother spoke briefly with ABC News this morning.
> 
> She had awoken unaware of the news of the shooting and had not been contacted by authorities. She immediately expressed concern that her son may have been involved.
> 
> "You have the right person," she said.
> 
> "I need to call the police," she added. "I need to fly out to Colorado."




WTF

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## PaulConventionWV

> Can you not read?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They said that the media will try to "pin" a mass murder on an RP supporter without knowing anything about the incident. That's strange
> 
> When I heard about this my first response wasn't "The media is going to try and frame RP supporters for this, blame us, or try to connect us to it"


It seemed like you thought the people posting here thought it was a Ron Paul supporter and were expressing that opinion.  If I misread, I apologize.  However, the idea that the media would try to suggest we had something to do with it is not entirely far-fetched.

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## pcosmar

> I just did a search and can't find anything about that and he was described as being neither left or right but instead a conspiracy theorist obsessed with the movie Zeitgeist.


Actually I remember them painting him as a Right Winger/Tea Party,,, till it was confirmed that he was a Democrat that had actually worked on some "D" campaigns.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> It seemed like you thought the people posting here thought it was a Ron Paul supporter and were expressing that opinion.  If I misread, I apologize.  However, the idea that the media would try to suggest we had something to do with it is not entirely far-fetched.


It is most certainly far-fetched to assume that the media would try to associate us with this or to assume that a RP supporter had anything to do with murdering young children and adults in a movie theater when we only know one thing about the guy (his name)

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## phill4paul

> It is most certainly far-fetched to assume that the media would try to associate us with this or to assume that a RP supporter had anything to do with murdering young children and adults in a movie theater when we only know one thing about the guy (his name)


  No, it is naive to think they would not if there was evidence of such.




> Because the media would NEVER link one's political beliefs to crimes, right? Remember Benjamin Gilmore....
> 
> http://www.libertarianrepublican.net...danti-war.html

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## PaulConventionWV

> It is most certainly far-fetched to assume that the media would try to associate us with this or to assume that a RP supporter had anything to do with murdering young children and adults in a movie theater when we only know one thing about the guy (his name)


I am not assuming anything.  I said it's a hunch that is not far-fetched.  It's not an assumption, it's a hunch.  Remember the Giffords shooter (along with countless other criminals) who was derided for his supposed anarchist or libertarian beliefs.  Even if they don't say he's a Ron Paul supporter, they may try to find anything that would associate him with us, such as the aforementioned beliefs.  If there's evidence of such, they will bring it up as if it's a big motivating factor in the shooting.

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## cajuncocoa

> Mayor Bloomberg is calling on President Barack Obama and GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney to respond to the shooting by detailing their plans to improve gun control.


http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...163166416.html

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## DerailingDaTrain

> No, it is naive to think they would not if there was evidence of such.


Bejamin Gilmore set something on fire and made ranting videos on YT. So what?

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## moostraks

> Actually I remember them painting him as a Right Winger/Tea Party,,, till it was confirmed that he was a Democrat that had actually worked on some "D" campaigns.





> It is most certainly far-fetched to assume that the media would try to associate us with this or to assume that a RP supporter had anything to do with murdering young children and adults in a movie theater when we only know one thing about the guy (his name)


See pcosmar's comment as that was what I recall as well in the reports until it was debunked and then the story quickly faded away without much fanfare or rectifying of the false allegations. There is an agenda afoot and you can act like it doesn't happen all you want but some of us have a recollection of past events that exceeds the magic eraser of the internet that scrubs things....

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## madengr

WTF are a 6 year old and 3 month old doing at a Batman movie?  Hollywood says guns are bad, but Hollywood gun play is good, so bring your kids.

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## Dr.3D

Oh man, I feel like I just lost around 20 IQ points, reading about people who believe anything was said about it being a RP supporter.

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## cajuncocoa

> It is most certainly far-fetched to assume that the media would try to associate us with this or to assume that a RP supporter had anything to do with murdering young children and adults in a movie theater when we only know one thing about the guy (his name)


It is naive to think otherwise.  We're a threat to the status quo.  They will do anything to try to discredit and smear us.

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## aGameOfThrones

> http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...163166416.html


Bloomberg to the rescue.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Oh man, I feel like I just lost around 20 IQ points, reading about people who believe anything was said about it being a RP supporter.





> The media would just love to pin this on a RP supporter.





> Waiting to learn the guy is a Ron Paul supporter in 3....2....


Are you two going to deny you ever said those things?

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## cajuncocoa

> Oh man, I feel like I just lost around 20 IQ points, reading about people who believe anything was said about it being a RP supporter.


I hear ya.  When it's that hard to get things across to the people on this board, I know it's hopeless to get through to the general population.

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## pcgame

.........

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## DerailingDaTrain

> I hear ya.  When it's that hard to get things across to the people on this board, I know it's hopeless to get through to the general population.


Man rapes and kills entire family in Portland, Oregon

You: Waiting for them to say it's an RP supporter in 3...2...1

Makes no sense

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## juleswin

My condolences to the families of the dead and injured and my prayers go to the survivors who are probably deadly with the traumatic shock after going through such an event. 

From the 1st time I realized they were people who would want to kill Americans, I have always avoided opening nights at the movie theater, because think about it, it is a confined area with lots of people, dark, with little or no security and sound effects simulating gun fire. And even if everyone in the theater had their own guns, he would still be able to take out at least 6 people and another 20 more from the chaos that will ensue from return fire. 

Very tragic event and I hope the perpetrator get the justice he deserves i.e death.

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## LibertyEagle

> That reminds me of the title of a Dead Kennedies(sp?) album...  "A Million Dead Cops"...  
> 
> -t


Huh?  By gun-grabbing, I meant anti-gun legislation.

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## Dr.3D

> Are you two going to deny you ever said those things?


Nope... nobody said it was a RP supporter though.   You in your own mind thought we said that.

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## Dr.3D

> Man rapes and kills entire family in Portland, Oregon
> 
> You: Waiting for them to say it's an RP supporter in 3...2...1
> 
> Makes no sense


It does if the media could come up with something to connect the two.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Nope... *nobody said* it was a RP supporter though.   You in your own mind thought we said that.





> Waiting to learn the guy is a Ron Paul supporter in 3....2....





> The media would just love to pin this on a RP supporter.


//

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## matt0611

ABC already tried to link this guy to being a tea partier. (they were wrong btw, cause it was pure BS speculation)

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...night-Shooting

The media in this country is disgusting...wow.

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## cajuncocoa

> //


Geez Louise, DDT...have you really not seen these things play out before?  I wasn't saying the guy IS an RP supporter, just expecting to hear that he is (explicitly, or implicitly by suggesting he had FB posts about small government, sound money, etc.)  Whether he is or isn't, I can assure you they are exploring that angle right now hoping he IS (Dr. 3D's point).

I certainly wasn't expecting to start such an argument with that comment....I really thought most people here would understand it.

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## Dr.3D

> //


Again, nobody said it was a RP supporter.   Read those statements again.  We are waiting for them to come up with something along those lines.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> Geez Louise, DDT...have you really not seen these things play out before?  I wasn't saying the guy IS an RP supporter, just expecting to hear that he is (explicitly, or implicitly by suggesting he had posts about small government, sound money, etc.)  Whether he is or isn't, I can assure you they are exploring that angle right now hoping he IS (Dr. 3D's point).


Why would you expect to hear that a psychopath who just murdered small children at a movie theater is an RP supporter?

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## Dr.3D

> Why would you expect to hear that a psychopath who just murdered small children at a movie theater is an RP supporter?


Duh... because the media would have a circus if they could somehow link him with RP.

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## cajuncocoa

> Why would you expect to hear that a psychopath who just murdered small children at a movie theater is an RP supporter?


*BECAUSE THE MEDIA LOVES TO PLAY THAT ANGLE AND IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.*

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## GunnyFreedom

> I'm still not sure why you even brought this up. It sounds pretty farfetched





> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.


To be fair, they have tried to do it before.  The media tried to make the IRS kamikaze guy...James Stack? into a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.  They tried to make the Congresswoman Gabby Giffords shooter a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.

Pretty much anything they could try to pin on Paul supporters, they do try, and then when evidence comes out to the contrary they just move on like nothing happened.  So, it's more like being taught from experience that causes people to speculate they will try and make it a Pauler.

The James Stack one in particular they tried every trick in the book to make him a Pauler even after the world knew otherwise.  The media on the Gabby Giffords guy, you may recall, only stopped their assault on Paulers when the dude's 'manifesto' revealed he was only 1° of separation from a hard communist.

There have been many other examples, those were just the two that have stuck best in my head.  So yeah, it's actually been a pattern these last 5 years.  Some lunatic blows up somewhere there is usually a media rush to blame it on a Paul supporter.  Sad but true.

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## cajuncocoa

> Again, nobody said it was a RP supporter.   Read those statements again.  We are waiting for them to come up with something along those lines.


Yes.  Thank you.  

Good grief.

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## DerailingDaTrain

> *BECAUSE THE MEDIA LOVES TO PLAY THAT ANGLE AND IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.*


When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day

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## Dr.3D

> When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day


It has never happened, but the media has reported these things in the past and then when it is found to be untrue, they never retracted their statements.

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## matt0611

> When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day


Never, but the media loves speculating and lying to their political advantage, what planet do you live on?

Its already happened, they already tried and failed to link him to the tea party:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...night-Shooting

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## cajuncocoa

> When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day


Why are you being so obtuse about this?

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## Dr.3D

> Why are you being so obtuse about this?


Probably because he is trying to Derail Da Train.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Can you not read?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They said that the media will try to "pin" a mass murder on an RP supporter without knowing anything about the incident. That's strange
> 
> When I heard about this my first response wasn't "The media is going to try and frame RP supporters for this, blame us, or try to connect us to it"


When the IRS kamikaze James Stack thing went down, I had to set up custom twitter and Google alerts for _Ron +Paul Jim James +Stack +IRS_ and monitor them for close to three months to keep putting down the BS fake linkages people kept trying to tie them together from the initial mass media reports which tried to make a connection that simply wasn't there.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Probably because he is trying to Derail Da Train.

----------


## AuH20

so the UN small arms treaty is up for ratification next week on the 27th??? And this suddenly goes down??? In a theater, during a huge blockbuster premiere across the country where young and old are congregating??? Talk about a gun hater's dream scenario.

----------


## juleswin

> When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day


Reading comprehension fail. It has  happened before as in the media will try to paint the perpetrator of some mass killing as a Ron Paul supporter/small govt.

----------


## Muwahid

> When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day


I think most of the people on this forum are bat$#@! crazy too, but are you trying to not understand or what? They're saying the MSM would want to paint him as some whacko gun touting libertarian, since the media love to combat political philosophies they don't agree with with tragedies like this. The first thing they're going to do is look at his political associations, the media act as propaganda for the two party system.

I'm sure if he ever googled "Ron Paul" that's what would happen.

----------


## moostraks

> Why are you being so obtuse about this?


I am wondering why ddt is not retracting their statement since it has proven accurate that the msm would malign someone on this according to their political views.

----------


## No Free Beer

it has started:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...on-129568.html

----------


## cajuncocoa

*CNN'S PIERS MORGAN EXPLOITS 'DARK KNIGHT' MASSACRE TO PUSH GUN CONTROL
*http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...Batman-Tragedy

----------


## AuH20

I am a heavily armed Ron Paul supporter. And let me tell you something. The real enemy is not residing in some random movie theater in the continental U.S. Most of us know where the enemy is located. This brazen attack upon innocents as young as 3 months old is really alarming and I suspect this incident will be utilized for maximum political effect.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I just did a search and can't find anything about that and he was described as being neither left or right but instead a conspiracy theorist obsessed with the movie Zeitgeist.


Sure, *now*, when the revelation of his left-wing manifesto crushed the speculation.  I was here when that went down, and the attempts were blatant.  "Laughtner supported a return to the _gold standard_ and _opposed_ the Federal Reserve, very much like the supporters of candidate for President Ron Paul..."

I remember it like it was yesterday.  The James Stack one was way worse than the Laughner one because they found Laugner's communist manifesto which put to lie the attempts at connecting him to Paul, but I assure you that the attempts were nonetheless made.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> It is most certainly far-fetched to assume that the media would try to associate us with this or to assume that a RP supporter had anything to do with murdering young children and adults in a movie theater when we only know one thing about the guy (his name)


I've been down this rodeo enough times to know how the media does.  The first coupla times I thought it was far-fetched too.

----------


## Bruehound

> I'm going to go out on a limb and say the shooter was probably on some sort of psychotropic drug made by big pharma.  That or a veteran with multiple tours under his belt.


Yep.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Why would you expect to hear that a psychopath who just murdered small children at a movie theater is an RP supporter?


Because they at least make the attempt pretty much every time something like this happens.  media has already tried to make this guy into a right-winger Tea Partier, which to the media is 'just as good' as making him out to be a Ron Paul supporter.  The first attempt to make him into a Tea Partier has already failed.  And this all just happened....hours ago?  Par for the course.  Stick around, I was horrified too the first coupla times they tried this garbage.  Now I recognize it as the standard modus operandi.

----------


## Original_Intent

The OP refers to two gunmen, one in custody and one still at large, now every story I can find is only talking about 1 gunman, the guy they caught.

And it just reminds me of suspect #2 in the OKC bombing and suddenly that part of the story disappeared.

----------


## AuH20

So when does Obama get on national TV and plead with the American people to give up their guns for the sake of the children??

----------


## Danke

> Is it a good time for jokes?


Too soon?

----------


## matt0611

> So when does Obama get on national TV and plead with the American people to give up their guns for the sake of the children??


I heard he was going to talk about it this morning. Never want to miss an opportunity to exploit tragedy.

----------


## matt0611

> So when does Obama get on national TV and plead with the American people to give up their guns for the sake of the children??


I heard he was going to talk about it this morning. Never want to miss an opportunity to exploit tragedy.

----------


## cajuncocoa

Well, this is bizarre:

*Was the Batman movie shooting imitated from scene in 1985 comic?*


The horrific shooting at the screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado late last night bears eerie similarities to a scene in the 1985 comic Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. In the comic, a crazed, gun-toting loner walks into a movie theater and begins shooting it up, killing three in the process. The passage concludes with the media blaming Batman for inspiring the shooting, though he is not involved in the incident at all.

The 1985 comic, written and drawn by Frank Miller, was a key inspiration for the Chris Nolan Batman films. It helped to reimagine the character away from his Saturday morning cartoon image and into a dark, grim avenger. The point of this particular scene in the comic was to show just how far Gotham has fallen since Batman had retired.

Was the shooter imitating this scene from the comic? Maybe, although in the scene the shooter is portrayed as inspired by his disgust at pornography and heavy metal music. The police’s investigation will surely reveal more in the near future.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/batman...rticle/2502701

----------


## RonRules

> To be fair, they have tried to do it before.  The media tried to make the IRS kamikaze guy...James Stack? into a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.  They tried to make the Congresswoman Gabby Giffords shooter a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.


In this case, it's a good thing our numbers are relatively small! They'd have us guilty for every armed robbery in Detroit!

----------


## Kade

> Is the theatre a gun free zone ?


Apparently not.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Apparently not.


Yeah, because we all know, nobody would bring a gun into a gun free zone.

/sarc

----------


## libertyjam

NYC's Mike Bloomberg ALREADY calling for gun control post shooting in Colorado:
http://www.mikebloomberg.com/index.c...9C2B3E8BCB8E57

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Apparently not.


I think you are misunderstanding.  Only law-abiders follow the law.  An area being a gun free zone isn't going to stop a person like did this shooting, but it will stop others from having a means of protecting themselves.

----------


## Dr.3D

> NYC's Mike Bloomberg ALREADY calling for gun control post shooting in Colorado:
> http://www.mikebloomberg.com/index.c...9C2B3E8BCB8E57


Like some kind of gun control is going to stop bad people from using guns.

----------


## hardrightedge

ABC news already tried to link him to the tea party...

----------


## Kade

> I think you are misunderstanding.  Only law-abiders follow the law.  An area being a gun free zone isn't going to stop a person like did this shooting, but it will stop others from having a means of protecting themselves.


No, I understand, but thank you for trying to antagonize me.

I don't follow unjust laws, people who do are chattel.

----------


## Pericles

> I am a heavily armed Ron Paul supporter. And let me tell you something. The real enemy is not residing in some random movie theater in the continental U.S. Most of us know where the enemy is located. This brazen attack upon innocents as young as 3 months old is really alarming and I suspect this incident will be utilized for maximum political effect.


You may depend upon it. I need to order more weapons ASAP.

----------


## AuH20

And so it begins....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...2#.UAk50v2iO6U




> Holmes was caught by police in the parking lot of the movie theater shortly after the shooting still dressed in his riot gear, an outfit eerily similar to a villain in "The Dark Knight Rises." He warned police that his Aurora apartment was booby-trapped, leading police to evacuate the apartment complex. They were working this morning to gain entry to and diffuse the apartment, which they said seems to be "elaborately" rigged with explosives. 
> 
> *"The pictures we have from inside the apartment are pretty disturbing considering how elaborate the apartment is booby trapped," police said outside of the apartment complex today. The "flammable and explosive" materials could have blown up Holmes' apartment building and the ones near it, police said.*

----------


## JK/SEA

> so the UN small arms treaty is up for ratification next week on the 27th??? And this suddenly goes down??? In a theater, during a huge blockbuster premiere across the country where young and old are congregating??? Talk about a gun hater's dream scenario.


Everyone be careful out there. I'm not expecting another event like this in the same week but nothing would surprise me. The old 'copy cat' mantra might rear its ugly head giving idiots like Bloomberg more 'ammo'.....

----------


## Pericles

Right wing militia extremist - no doubt

----------


## phill4paul

> Bejamin Gilmore set something on fire and made ranting videos on YT. So what?


  I think everyone has presented enough evidence of how media spins. If you are too ignorant or just being obtuse and trolling then we can't help ya.

----------


## kathy88

This is getting more frightening by the second.

----------


## ShaneEnochs

> Because they at least make the attempt pretty much every time something like this happens.  media has already tried to make this guy into a right-winger Tea Partier, which to the media is 'just as good' as making him out to be a Ron Paul supporter.  The first attempt to make him into a Tea Partier has already failed.  And this all just happened....hours ago?  Par for the course.  Stick around, I was horrified too the first coupla times they tried this garbage.  Now I recognize it as the standard modus operandi.


I haven't seen any articles calling him a right-winger Tea Partier.  Who's writing that?

----------


## erowe1

> To be fair, they have tried to do it before.  The media tried to make the IRS kamikaze guy...James Stack? into a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.  They tried to make the Congresswoman Gabby Giffords shooter a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.
> 
> Pretty much anything they could try to pin on Paul supporters, they do try, and then when evidence comes out to the contrary they just move on like nothing happened.  So, it's more like being taught from experience that causes people to speculate they will try and make it a Pauler.
> 
> The James Stack one in particular they tried every trick in the book to make him a Pauler even after the world knew otherwise.  The media on the Gabby Giffords guy, you may recall, only stopped their assault on Paulers when the dude's 'manifesto' revealed he was only 1° of separation from a hard communist.
> 
> *There have been many other examples*, those were just the two that have stuck best in my head.  So yeah, it's actually been a pattern these last 5 years.  Some lunatic blows up somewhere there is usually a media rush to blame it on a Paul supporter.  Sad but true.


Richard Poplawski
James von Brunn
John Patrick Bedell
Anson Chi

----------


## hardrightedge

> I haven't seen any articles calling him a right-winger Tea Partier.  Who's writing that?



http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ct-129588.html

----------


## Carlybee

Radio just said they are getting reports he's a registered Dem and member of the Occupy Movement.

----------


## phill4paul

> Radio just said they are getting reports he's a registered Dem and member of the Occupy Movement.


  That was earlier connected to the Tea Party. Lol. Typical.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Radio just said they are getting reports he's a registered Dem and member of the Occupy Movement.


so he was pissed he didn't get his rent paid by Obama this month?....

stay tuned.

----------


## erowe1

> Radio just said they are getting reports he's a registered Dem and member of the Occupy Movement.





> That was earlier connected to the Tea Party. Lol. Typical.


So now the trick is to find that special group of people on the Venn diagram where the Occupy movement and the Tea Party overlap. I wonder who that is.

----------


## TheGrinch

> So now the trick is to find that special group of people on the Venn diagram where the Occupy movement and the Tea Party overlap. I wonder who that is.


I would laugh if the whole thing wasn't so sickening (and I'm not just talking about the shooting, but the usual "never let a good crisis go to waste")

----------


## Athan

I don't know what happened in this horrible event, but what I do know is the media is going to blame us somehow for it.

----------


## Carlybee

Both sides will try to politicise it. The claims he is a member of the OM is not official. Michael Berry on iHeart Radio (740 am Houston) said there was a report he was a member of the OM Black Bloc..whatever that is.

----------


## donnay

False Flag!  These people are so in plain view.  Fear! Fear! Fear!  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  Government is here to protect you!

The Maine
Reich Stag
Gulf of Tonkin

----------


## sailingaway

> People will run wild with this, but I think there is a chance that it's not the same Jim Holmes.  Just by doing a Google search I've found that there's at least one other Jim/James Holmes in that town.



Patriots is the one who asked Ron to speak at the last moment before their lobbiest fundraiser event in Phoenix, because Cain hadn't filled the house and offered to let on line viewers (who had to pay and watch the whole weekend long spiel to find the embedded code) vote in their straw poll for Ron.  Ron won overall and decimated CAin on line, but was shy of Cain in in person votes, since CAin had been planning to speak from the start and his people had organized. 

I don't think  of them as a Paul friendly group.  They get people to give money to pay themselves to be lobbyists, from what I can tell.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Radio just said they are getting reports he's a registered Dem and member of the Occupy Movement.


Isn't it so bizarre that they are reporting on the political party the guy is registered with?

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Patriots is the one who asked Ron to speak at the last moment before their lobbiest fundraiser event in Phoenix, because Cain hadn't filled the house and offered to let on line viewers (who had to pay and watch the whole weekend long spiel to find the embedded code) vote in their straw poll for Ron.  Ron won overall and decimated CAin on line, but was shy of Cain in in person votes, since CAin had been planning to speak from the start and his people had organized. 
> 
> I don't think  of them as a Paul friendly group.  *They get people to give money to pay themselves to be lobbyists*, from what I can tell.


Elaborate, please.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Isn't it so bizarre that they are reporting on the political party the guy is registered with?


I have to wonder why they don't report the political party of everyone who breaks a law or does something crazy.   /s

----------


## sailingaway

> I just did a search and can't find anything about that and he was described as being neither left or right but instead a conspiracy theorist obsessed with the movie Zeitgeist.


that is because he turned out to be left, but when the news was first coming out they DID make a big deal about 'gold standard' and seemed to start to move towards Ron, but instead turned on Palin's map with 'targets' or gun sights pin pointing House seats her PAC was targetting -- one of which was Giffords.  So WE weren't the scapegoat that time, but it was the same process.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Both sides will try to politicise it. The claims he is a member of the OM is not official. Michael Berry on iHeart Radio (740 am Houston) said there was a report he was a member of the *OM Black Bloc*..whatever that is.


I'm still reading this myself, but here's a link that explains:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...cupy_20120206/

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I haven't seen any articles calling him a right-winger Tea Partier.  Who's writing that?


Already been linked half a dozen times in this very thread prior to your post.  More now that hardrightedge has replied to your inquiry.  Erowe1's comment about where do the TP's and OW's overlap is on-point and hopefully not prescient.

The interesting thing I have seen in the past is that political affiliations are always blown up all out of proportion until it comes out they are left-wing, whereupon they quietly vanish from the media landscape.  Let's see if the same pattern follows here.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> No, I understand, but thank you for trying to antagonize me.
> 
> I don't follow unjust laws, people who do are chattel.


Huh?  How was I trying to antagonize you?

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Already been linked half a dozen times in this very thread prior to your post.  More now that hardrightedge has replied to your inquiry.  Erowe1's comment about where do the TP's and OW's overlap is on-point and hopefully not prescient.
> 
> The interesting thing I have seen in the past is that *political affiliations are always blown up all out of proportion until it comes out they are left-wing, whereupon they quietly vanish from the media landscape.  Let's see if the same pattern follows here.*


yep

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Richard Poplawski
> James von Brunn
> John Patrick Bedell
> Anson Chi


Exactly.  We have come to expect it now because it's almost always done.  Whenever some lunatic perpetrates one of these horrors that may possibly have a political connection, the first go-to for the media is almost always the hard-right and the most effort is generally spent trying to link the Paulers.

----------


## sailingaway

> So when does Obama get on national TV and plead with the American people to give up their guns for the sake of the children??


If people are shooting up theatres we need more concealed carry licenses to PROTECT the children.

----------


## cjm

> Isn't it so bizarre that they are reporting on the political party the guy is registered with?


If the shooting is to be considered terrorism (which is often political), then political associations would be part of the story.

----------


## Carlybee

> False Flag!  These people are so in plain view.  Fear! Fear! Fear!  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  Government is here to protect you!
> 
> The Maine
> Reich Stag
> Gulf of Tonkin


Thats what I think too.

----------


## cajuncocoa

Movie theater shooting victim Jessica Ghawi narrowly missed a previous attack | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

----------


## cajuncocoa

> False Flag!  These people are so in plain view.  Fear! Fear! Fear!  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  Government is here to protect you!
> 
> The Maine
> Reich Stag
> Gulf of Tonkin


Anthrax attacks of 2001

----------


## donnay

> If people are shooting up theatres we need more concealed carry licenses to PROTECT the children.


No licenses!  I do not need permission!  We need to exercise our second amendment--period!

----------


## sailingaway

> Elaborate, please.


They have 'send money' events and fundraisers, then the people who own/are the group go and lobby congress, and take salaries for it, is my understanding.

----------


## Carlybee

Was going to college to get his doctorate in neuroscience (per radio news)

----------


## cajuncocoa

*Suspect was neuroscience Ph.D student; photo released*





Photo of Holmes. (University of Colorado via ABC News)
Colorado shooting suspect James Holmes was in the process from withdrawing from a doctorate program in neuroscience at the University of Colorado-Denver, according to university spokesman Dan Myers. Holmes began the program last year.

This photo, obtained by ABC News, reportedly shows the 24-year-old Holmes. Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said Holmes' apartment is booby trapped with a "sophisticated" maze of flammable devices. It could take hours or days for authorities to disarm it. Five nearby buildings have been evacuated. Oates said Holmes had no criminal record in the state.

Holmes' family, who live in San Diego, released a statement expressing their sadness for the victims and asking for privacy. Holmes is suspected of walking into an Aurora theater's midnight showing of "Dark Knight Rises" wearing a gas mask and bullet proof vest and shooting at at least 50 people. Twelve are reported dead.

http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/loo...160848135.html

----------


## Kade

> Isn't it so bizarre that they are reporting on the political party the guy is registered with?


If this was a liberal, I'm sure most on this board would make that VERY clear. /plank-in-eye

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.





> I think most of the people on this forum are bat$#@! crazy too, but are you trying to not understand or what? They're saying the MSM would want to paint him as some whacko gun touting libertarian, since the media love to combat political philosophies they don't agree with with tragedies like this. The first thing they're going to do is look at his political associations, the media act as propaganda for the two party system.
> 
> I'm sure if he ever googled "Ron Paul" that's what would happen.


Then why do you guys bother?

For that matter, why do I?

If I wanted to get insulted, I'd go hang out on the Freeper board.

----------


## erowe1

> If this was a liberal, I'm sure most on this board would make that VERY clear. /plank-in-eye


You're accusing us of hypocrisy for what you imagine we would have done?

----------


## Brian4Liberty

> I'm going to go out on a limb and say the shooter was probably on some sort of psychotropic drug made by big pharma.  That or a veteran with multiple tours under his belt.


Or both.

----------


## TomtheTinker

> Getting word that the guy may have ordered pizza from a guy who once rode in a taxi cab that's driver was the cousin of some dude that dated a girls whose grandfather was   from Iran member of his local militia..this is for sure an act of war!!


Fixed for convenience

----------


## Kade

> You're accusing us of hypocrisy for what you imagine we would have done?


I don't have to imagine anything. I've seen it as codified rule of behavior.

----------


## phill4paul

Some fookin' Governor on MSNBC calling for complete ban on 'assault' weapons. Limitations on amount of guns. Limitation on ammo purchase and high capacity magazines. "Not needed for hunting." "Not needed to protect oneself in their home."
  These people are insane.
  Edit: Christ, now he is saying that ALL amendment rights come with 'common sense' limitations.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> If this was a liberal, I'm sure most on this board would make that VERY clear. /plank-in-eye


Well, apparently, it has already come out that he was a Democrat and I haven't heard anyone here making anything out of it.

----------


## erowe1

> I don't have to imagine anything. I've seen it as codified rule of behavior.


Then why did you refer to what you imagine would have happened instead of something you've seen?

And "codified"? Huh?

----------


## Kade

> Well, apparently, it has already come out that he was a Democrat and I haven't heard anyone here making anything out of it.


What's the difference? I said Liberal, I said nothing about the other half of the GOP.

----------


## KingNothing

> Conspiracy theories like "THE MEDIA IS GOING TO BLAME USSSSSS" makes me think that most of this forum is bat$#@! crazy.


Right, from the beginning I thought the media and political folks would blame:

1.) Guns
2.) Tea Party, "anti-government" groups
3.) Militias
4.) Video games
5.) Movies/Music
6.) "Lack of Values"

----------


## Kade

> Then why did you refer to what you imagine would have happened instead of something you've seen?
> 
> And "codified"? Huh?


It would be like imagining your drive to work in the morning, having done it so many times prior --- Is this really that hard to understand?

----------


## kahless

> Some fookin' Governor on MSNBC calling for complete ban on 'assault' weapons. Limitations on amount of guns. Limitation on ammo purchase and high capacity magazines. "Not needed for hunting." "Not needed to protect oneself in their home."
>   These people are insane.


Did he even have any assault weapons? I have not turned on MSNBC yet but that is what I expected to hear in an endless loop of anger for days on end.

At some point people are going to need to organize against MSNBC.  They are not a news channel and are a propaganda machine to deny us our liberties.

----------


## phill4paul

> Did he even have any assault weapons? I have not turned on MSNBC yet but that is what I expected to hear in an endless loop of anger for days on end.
> 
> At some point people are going to need to organize against MSNBC.  They are not a news channel and are a propaganda machine to deny us our liberties.


  I have heard reports of an *AR*, a shot gun and sidearms.

  Edit for type of assault weapon.

----------


## Kade

> Well, apparently, it has already come out that he was a Democrat and I haven't heard anyone here making anything out of it.



These one liners ought to be tiring you out....

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/m...-to-tea-party/

Update: Now Breitbart.com blogger Joel Pollak retorts that Holmes “could be a registered Democrat,” justified by this gem of logic: “Breitbart News has not confirmed that this James Holmes is in fact the suspect, but … there are certainly more facts in our documents than in ABC News’ irresponsible speculations.”

We can all agree that it doesn't matter. There is no political message that ought to be sold to people via the intentional massacre of innocent people.

----------


## erowe1

> It would be like imagining your drive to work in the morning, having done it so many times prior --- Is this really that hard to understand?


But if doing that makes me a hypocrite, wouldn't it be all the times I'd actually done it that make me a hypocrite, and not the time that you only imagined it?

----------


## pcgame

........

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> If this was a liberal, I'm sure most on this board would make that VERY clear. /plank-in-eye


And you'd be wrong.  The only reason Jared Laughner's radical left leaning was ever even discussed was to demonstrate the media bias in having painted him as a radical right-winger.  You will note that as soon as that bs propaganda was killed, the discussions of Laughner's left leaning also ended on this board.  

You seem to forget that the vast, vast majority of us on this board recognize that the left-right paradigm is a false one.  What's the point of pointing out that someone is on the false-left as opposed to the false-right _except_ for the sole purpose of demonstrating media complicity in the perpetuation of the false left-right paradigm?

The fact is that by a large margin most of these politically motivated loonies are on the false-left while the media bends over backwards to tell people they are on the false-right.  The only valid purpose to the members of this board making these distinctions is to point out the falsehood of the paradigm in the first place, and the journalistic dereliction of painting them as right-wingers in the second place.

If what you say were true, then there would already be stacks and stacks of threads on RPF's pointing out how the last dozen or so of these were done by people on the false left, and there are not, which kinda puts to lie your accusation.

----------


## donnay



----------


## tangent4ronpaul

OP updated.  Police briefing soon.  More details will be available shortly.

-t

----------


## georgiaboy

> http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...2#.UAldD7RfF9W
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				 A San Diego woman identifying herself as James Holmes's mother spoke briefly with ABC News this morning.
> ...



wait, so wonder what she knew to think this about her son?

----------


## pcgame

.......

----------


## LibertyEagle

> These one liners ought to be tiring you out....
> 
> http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/m...-to-tea-party/
> 
> Update: Now Breitbart.com blogger Joel Pollak retorts that Holmes “could be a registered Democrat,” justified by this gem of logic: “Breitbart News has not confirmed that this James Holmes is in fact the suspect, but … there are certainly more facts in our documents than in ABC News’ irresponsible speculations.”
> 
> We can all agree that it doesn't matter. There is no political message that ought to be sold to people via the intentional massacre of innocent people.


What the frick is your problem?

I gave no one-liners.  I made one comment about how it was ridiculous that after these horrible murders that the media was fixating on the murderer's political party.

Stop behaving like an ass.

----------


## The Free Hornet

> I think most of the people on this forum are bat$#@! crazy too, but are you trying to not understand or what? They're saying the MSM would want to paint him as some whacko gun touting libertarian, since the media love to combat political philosophies they don't agree with with tragedies like this. The first thing they're going to do is look at his political associations, the media act as propaganda for the two party system.
> 
> I'm sure if he ever googled "Ron Paul" that's what would happen.


Predicting that "X will be associated with Y" leads to "X being associating with Y".  These people are right to assume malfeasance by the media, they are right to be ready and to have a defensive posture.  However, their "3... 2... 1..." predictions do sufficient associative harm on their own.  Those comments are not smart, clever, or even all that predictive.  It subtracts from the discussion.

I could *honestly* report - with sufficient sources and attribution - that some people here think this scumbag will be associated with us.  That you are making predictions doesn't change the fact that, "This just in - members of RPF.com believe that this terrorist is, in fact, associated with the RP movement."  That is spun, not what they intended (or is it...), but a prediction all too many are happy to make true if it won't come true via media malfeasance.

If someone is murdered in your town, do you go around saying, "oh great, the cops are going to pin this on me", "no knock warrant on me in 3... 2... 1...", "can't wait for the news to call me a murderer!!!!".  You might be innocent and likely are, but you would be the first person I question and the person I _associate_ with the case until proven otherwise.

Rather than letting the media stick its own foot in its own mouth, some here are demonstrating how it will be done with their feet and their mouths.  I _get_ that they're being predictive, but thats not the impression I assume.  It looks like projection at worst and a pity party at best.

"When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...nting-back-you

----------


## Kade

> And you'd be wrong.  The only reason Jared Laughner's radical left leaning was ever even discussed was to demonstrate the media bias in having painted him as a radical right-winger.  You will note that as soon as that bs propaganda was killed, the discussions of Laughner's left leaning also ended on this board.  
> 
> You seem to forget that the vast, vast majority of us on this board recognize that the left-right paradigm is a false one.  What's the point of pointing out that someone is on the false-left as opposed to the false-right _except_ for the sole purpose of demonstrating media complicity in the perpetuation of the false left-right paradigm?
> 
> The fact is that by a large margin most of these politically motivated loonies are on the false-left while the media bends over backwards to tell people they are on the false-right.  The only valid purpose to the members of this board making these distinctions is to point out the falsehood of the paradigm in the first place, and the journalistic dereliction of painting them as right-wingers in the second place.
> 
> If what you say were true, then there would already be stacks and stacks of threads on RPF's pointing out how the last dozen or so of these were done by people on the false left, and there are not, which kinda puts to lie your accusation.


The political position of the shooter was not brought up by me first.

----------


## Kade

> What the frick is your problem?
> 
> I gave no one-liners.  I made one comment about how it was ridiculous that after these horrible murders that the media was fixating on the murderer's political party.
> 
> Stop behaving like an ass.


You said it came out that he was Democrat, I was merely pointing out where that came from...

----------


## Revolution9

> Huh?  How was I trying to antagonize you?


You weren't.

Rev9

----------


## LibertyEagle

> You said it came out that he was Democrat, I was merely pointing out where that came from...


That's fair.  However, the rest of your posts were just an attempt to pick a fight.  I personally don't care what political party he is registered with.

----------


## donnay

> And you'd be wrong.  The only reason Jared Laughner's radical left leaning was ever even discussed was to demonstrate the media bias in having painted him as a radical right-winger.  You will note that as soon as that bs propaganda was killed, the discussions of Laughner's left leaning also ended on this board.


Then people need to do their own investigation, not rely on the dinosaur controlled media.  *Judge Roll was assassinated*, and the links to Operation _fast and furious_ were glaring.

----------


## LibertyEagle

> If the shooting is to be considered terrorism (which is often political), then political associations would be part of the story.


Only because the media tries to spin it that way.

Anyone who would kill all these innocent people is mentally unstable.  I don't think that is limited to only one political party.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> The political position of the shooter was not brought up by me first.


No, it was predicted by RPF members that the media would try to pin it on us, and shortly thereafter it was brought up by ABC News that the guy was probably a Tea Partier.  Then another source (presumably attempting to counter the ABC smear) connected him to the Occupiers which nobody on here made a big deal out of at all.  Then despite the fact that nobody on here latched on to the accusation that he was an Occupier, you came out and claimed that if the guy was a liberal we here at RPF's would be falling all over ourselves to point that out.  I stated that you were wrong, and gave evidence to back that up.

----------


## RonRules

Here's what nobody will talk about, but will eventually be found to be the cause.

First they accuse the Tea Parties, now they're saying it's "Homegrown Terrorism". If this guy has a single Ron Paul flyer in is apartment, you won't hear anything else for the next three months.

But here what really is the cause:

That man's age (24) is the peak likelihood age that someone will turn schizophrenic.  He was studying neuroscience, which is indication that he may have wanted to understand himself. Clearly this thoughtless crime is an indication that he had mental problems.

Once people figure out the guy had mental problems, the next thing you'll hear on the Internets (and very likely in THIS forum) is to blame BIG PHARMA!

Here's the real problem: Mental cases do occur in a small percentage of the population and if UNMEDICATED or medicated with useless alt meds, people commit these horrible acts.

Most likely, he had not been diagnosed or taken any meds at all or STOPPED taking his meds. That when people do these crazy things. I suspect the same happened to the guy in the 2011 Norway attacks (77 people killed).

Psych drugs work and they save patients lives and often those of others.

*NOT taking psychs drugs when people should take them IS the problem here.*

It's certainly not "home grown terrorism"

----------


## sailingaway

> You're accusing us of hypocrisy for what you imagine we would have done?


that's pretty much the size of it, it would appear.

----------


## RickyJ

> NOT taking psychs drugs when people should take them IS the problem here.


I disagree. The problem is people taking psych drugs. Those things screw more people up than any mental problem anyone has.

----------


## donnay

> Here's what nobody will talk about, but will eventually be found to be the cause.
> 
> First they accuse the Tea Parties, now they're saying it's "Homegrown Terrorism". If this guy has a single Ron Paul flyer in is apartment, you won't hear anything else for the next three months.
> 
> But here what really is the cause:
> *
> That man's age (24) is the peak likelihood age that someone will turn schizophrenic.  He was studying neuroscience, which is indication that he may have wanted to understand himself. Clearly this thoughtless crime is an indication that he had mental problems.*
> 
> Once people figure out the guy had mental problems, the next thing you'll hear on the Internets (and very likely in THIS forum) is to blame BIG PHARMA!
> ...




You mean a real life Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?  <Sarcasm OFF>

----------


## RonRules

> I disagree. The problem is people taking psych drugs. Those things screw more people up than any mental problem anyone has.


You guys are hopeless. I'll go back doing vote flipping charts.

----------


## phill4paul

Thought he was the 'Joker.'




> NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) – New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the gunman suspected of attacking a crowded movie theater in Aurora, Colorado resembled Batman’s arch-villain “The Joker” at the time of the shocking attack.
> 
> “We have some information, most of it is public. It clearly looks like a deranged individual. He had his hair painted red, he said he was ‘The Joker,’ obviously the ‘enemy’ of Batman,” Kelly said at a news conference after noon.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ater-shooting/

----------


## liveandletlive

he most likely suffered from schizophrenia and something set him off. even obama and romney are holding off politics for a day, i hope people can do the same

----------


## cajuncocoa

*Kelly: Colorado Movie Theater Shooting Suspect Claimed To Be Batman Nemesis The Joker*

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP)  New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the gunman suspected of attacking a crowded movie theater in Aurora, Colorado resembled Batmans arch-villain The Joker at the time of the shocking attack.

We have some information, most of it is public. It clearly looks like a deranged individual. He had his hair painted red, he said he was The Joker, obviously the enemy of Batman, Kelly said at a news conference after noon.

Kelly said the NYPD is stepping up security at movie theaters around the city after suspect James Holmes walked into a Colorado movie theater during a midnight showing of the new Batman movie The Dark Knight Rises and opened fire, killing 12 people and injuring dozens more.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly called the shooting horrendous and said the NYPD is working to keep moviegoers safe.

As a precaution against copycats and to raise the comfort levels among movie patrons in the wake of the horrendous shooting in Colorado, the New York City Police Department is providing coverage at theaters where the The Dark Knight Rises is playing in the five boroughs, Kelly said.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ater-shooting/

----------


## donnay

> You guys are hopeless. I'll go back doing vote flipping charts.


Not hopeless, just paying attention and knowing what government is capable of doing.  You make too many excuses for a hijacked government.

----------


## libertygrl

> No just an excuse they need to put the TSA in all theaters, shopping malls, supermarkets, ect...


That was my immediate thought.  But then you also have this:

Coming July 27, Gun Control On Steroids. Global arms trade treaty Obama to sign.

----------


## frodus24

I want to hear from Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) on this matter. I would love for her to rail against this $#@!. Funny that she owns a permit to carry a firearm and owns weapons.

----------


## JK/SEA

lifes a bitch and then ya die.

next.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

Who deleted my post?

----------


## belian78

> 


I quit listening to AJ a few years ago due to his sensationalism, but I always gave him credit and the benefit of the doubt due to his being on point about so much over the years.  But after watching this vid, and the one on top of pg 19, he's completely lost it.  Seriously....  illuminati programming to fear terrorists through a shark movie?  joker being a libertarian and batman a black jesus?  Come on, AJ is losing credibility by the minute.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> I quit listening to AJ a few years ago due to his sensationalism, but I always gave him credit and the benefit of the doubt due to his being on point about so much over the years.  But after watching this vid, and the one on top of pg 19, he's completely lost it.  Seriously....  illuminati programming to fear terrorists through a shark movie?  joker being a libertarian and batman a black jesus?  Come on, AJ is losing credibility by the minute.


You're in for some flaming

(Not by me)

----------


## Meatwasp

I didn't read   all the posts, but do you think violent movies stir up the $#@! in some  people's brains   I think so.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Who deleted my post?


I'm actually with you on this one.  The post you were responding to was at least as inflammatory as your response.  If yours was deleted, then the original post you responded to should have been deleted also.  Both or neither, it's only fair.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> I didn't read   all the posts, but do you think violent movies stir up the $#@! in some  people's brains   I think so.


People who are already ill can become violent by witnessing it in movies, games, etc. but just because one nut job with a gun shot up a movie theater that doesn't mean we should ban all Superhero movies.

----------


## belian78

> You're in for some flaming
> 
> (Not by me)


bring it on...  I used to listen to AJ every damn day, every day.  I used to be one of his biggest supporters and defenders, but I cant defend this....  it's moronic.  For someone of his intelligence to be talking about stuff like this I have to believe that he is deliberately steering his listeners to buy into this and discredit themselves on a greater scale.

----------


## erowe1

> People who are already ill can become violent by witnessing it in movies, games, etc. but just because one nut job with a gun shot up a movie theater that doesn't mean we should ban all Superhero movies.


Plus, I don't think he was watching the movie, was he? I thought I read that he broke in through the emergency exit or something?

----------


## osan

> I don't see how motherfuckers can be so indiscriminate.


They are self-absorbed cowards.  There is nothing fancier about it than that.

----------


## Revolution9

> I disagree. The problem is people taking psych drugs. Those things screw more people up than any mental problem anyone has.


This is true. These drugs cause neuronal clipping..the equivalent of digital overload past 0db. That is why it takes a few weeks to kick in. Enough of the emotional body has to die before the equilibrium of the robot is achieved.  This kills the nerve cell and the emotional body dies little by little as the sensibility is cut off.. They are left with only the gestures of emotion..basically a psychopath that can imitate a humans emotions but cannot actually feel them.

Rev9

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Thought he was the 'Joker.'
> 
> 
> 
> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ater-shooting/


Joker doesn't have red hair though

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Plus, I don't think he was watching the movie, was he? I thought I read that he broke in through the emergency exit or something?


He dressed up as the Joker so I assumed he had seen the second film

----------


## Revolution9

> Joker doesn't have red hair though


Red-green color blind?

Rev9

----------


## coastie

> This is true. These drugs cause neuronal clipping..the equivalent of digital overload past 0db. That is why it takes a few weeks to kick in. Enough of the emotional body has to die before the equilibrium of the robot is achieved.  This kills the nerve cell and the emotional body dies little by little as the sensibility is cut off.. They are left with only the gestures of emotion..basically a psychopath that can imitate a humans emotions but cannot actually feel them.
> 
> Rev9



Spot on description of what happens when people take those things. My wife was on them for 5 years. It's a miracle she's still alive and we're still married-and I don't believe in miracles.

----------


## phill4paul

> Joker doesn't have red hair though


  Maybe they mistook him for another 'clown?'

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> Maybe they mistook him for another 'clown?'


Lol

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Maybe they mistook him for another 'clown?'


Or this guy

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Police Chief just described that the Apartment has MULTIPLE serious, and complicated booby traps. Could take DAYS to gain entry.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

When seconds count, *Batman* is minutes away.

----------


## donnay

> I quit listening to AJ a few years ago due to his sensationalism, but I always gave him credit and the benefit of the doubt due to his being on point about so much over the years.  But after watching this vid, and the one on top of pg 19, he's completely lost it.  Seriously....  illuminati programming to fear terrorists through a shark movie?  joker being a libertarian and batman a black jesus?  Come on, AJ is losing credibility by the minute.


I am not going to flame you, you're entitled to your opinion.  I think you are missing point.  Hollywood has played a very influential part on peoples psyches.  When Jaws came out in the summer of 1975, the beaches all across the country had beach-goers that wouldn't so much as stick a foot into the ocean.  If you do not agree with that analogy, you are not understanding how movies have played a key role in molding peoples minds.  Of course, if you look at the statistics of people being killed by great whites in the U.S. you would understand you have a better chance of being struck by lightning--twice, than being attacked by a great white.

----------


## NoOneButPaul

And all the gun control $#@!s are out in full force now (not really here but in general)... it's so $#@!ty every time anything bad happens with a gun we all have to rehash the same correct arguments we've made for years...

----------


## cajuncocoa

> As he frequently does at moments of crisis, Obama invoked his role as a parent to describe his feeling after the shooting.
> "My daughters go to the movies," he said. "What if Malia and Sasha had been at the theater?"


http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/...here-is-limite

At least he doesn't have a son who could look like James Holmes.

----------


## Revolution9

> Or this guy


He looks like SeekingLiberty with a red doo.

Rev9

----------


## phill4paul

Someone on call in to MSNBC saying an individual within the theatre received a phone call and instead of going to lobby went to emergency exit propping it open with his foot during the showing of trailers.

----------


## donnay

Coincidences:

The number of victims involves 20 injuries and 12 deaths = 2012

Incident happens two weeks before the U.N. gun control treaty.


I am sure as more of the story comes out we will see more coincidences.

----------


## sailingaway

> Someone on call in to MSNBC saying an individual within the theatre received a phone call and instead of going to lobby went to emergency exit propping it open with his foot during the showing of trailers.


He got someone to COOPERATE with this?  maybe he told them he was just sneaking in to watch the  movie....

----------


## Revolution9

> Someone on call in to MSNBC saying an individual within the theatre received a phone call and instead of going to lobby went to emergency exit propping it open with his foot during the showing of trailers.


Handler? Find that guy and identify him to track the origin of this tragedy is my educated guess.




Rev9

----------


## RickyJ

> http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/...here-is-limite
> 
> At least he doesn't have a son who could look like James Holmes.


Nope, but he does have a wife that resembles him.

----------


## Carlybee

> I didn't read   all the posts, but do you think violent movies stir up the $#@! in some  people's brains   I think so.


'

Maybe but it's more likely they have mental problems to begin with.  I watch The Walking Dead and True Blood...I haven't eaten anyone's brains or drained anyone's blood...yet.

----------


## Deinonychus

There were 59 injuries.




> Coincidences:
> 
> The number of victims involves 20 injuries and 12 deaths = 2012
> 
> Incident happens two weeks before the U.N. gun control treaty.
> 
> 
> I am sure as more of the story comes out we will see more coincidences.

----------


## erowe1

> Coincidences:
> 
> The number of victims involves 20 injuries and 12 deaths = 2012


The reports I've seen have the number of injuries a lot higher than 20.




> Incident happens two weeks before the U.N. gun control treaty.


How is that a coincidence? If it happened 6 weeks before the treaty would that also be a coincidence?

----------


## phill4paul

> Handler? Find that guy and identify him to track the origin of this tragedy is my educated guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rev9


  My first thought also.

----------


## RickyJ

> I didn't read   all the posts, but do you think violent movies stir up the $#@! in some  people's brains   I think so.


Possibly, but it is much more likely that the very real killing of innocent people in the "war on terror" overseas by American soldiers causes much more $#@! to stir up in people's brains.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> '
> 
> Maybe but it's more likely they have mental problems to begin with.  I watch The Walking Dead and True Blood...I haven't eaten anyone's brains or drained anyone's blood...yet.


Exactly.  The guy thought he was The Joker for crying out loud!!  Definitely mental problems!!

----------


## donnay

Occupy Black Bloc Member James E. Holmes Shoots Up Aurora Co Movie Theater Killing 12 And Wounding 50.

http://cheatersflorida.wordpress.com...d-wounding-50/

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> I didn't read   all the posts, but do you think violent movies stir up the $#@! in some  people's brains   I think so.


Maybe. Some people might watch Documentaries and movies about Hitler and think his ideas/policies weren't bad... just poorly implemented.

----------


## Revolution9

I am starting to see $#@! where the cops knew about this being a false flag op. The site hosting the police radio recordings has been blocked but if these can be found it apparently shows knowledge of the event. Anybody can find a working link to the calls?

Rev9

----------


## erowe1

> I am starting to see $#@! where the cops knew about this being a false flag op. The site hosting the police radio recordings has been blocked but if these can be found it apparently shows knowledge of the event. Anybody can find a working link to the calls?
> 
> Rev9


I haven't listened to it. But a friend on Facebook posted this.
http://www.lawofficer.com/video/news...eater-shooting

----------


## UtahApocalypse

> Someone on call in to MSNBC saying an individual within the theatre received a phone call and instead of going to lobby went to emergency exit propping it open with his foot during the showing of trailers.





> Handler? Find that guy and identify him to track the origin of this tragedy is my educated guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rev9


Just as fast as these reports have started to surface an AP story that is from "sources" seems to not collobrate what the victims have said:

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworl...t-ticket-movie

"A U.S. official says the suspect in Friday's shootings inside a Colorado movie theater bought a ticket to the midnight showing of the latest Batman movie and went into the theater as part of the crowd."

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Occupy Black Bloc Member James E. Holmes Shoots Up Aurora Co Movie Theater Killing 12 And Wounding 50.
> 
> http://cheatersflorida.wordpress.com...d-wounding-50/


*Don’t Occupy Gotham City: A Protester Reviews ‘The Dark Knight Rises’*

Jul 19, 2012 4:45 AM EDT

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ght-rises.html

----------


## Weston White

This was a false-flag, totally, undoubtedly.

1.  The U.N. small arms treaty is set for Legislative debating and voting in the coming weeks.
2.  The media and governmental "officials" are already drumming forth the controversial gun control debate.
3.  The federal government was just busted on operation "fast and furious", and are facing the consequences of that utter debacle; ergo, if they could successfully pull of another such operation, it would only serve to provide forgiveness to the former and aid in burying their past aggressions, as well as the public's call for their criminal prosecution.
4.  One of the shooters was a Ph.D in human biology, chemistry, technology, and nervous systems (i.e., neuroscience).
5.  The theater is located just minutes from a U.S. Military Air-force base.
6.  One of the shooters had his home booby-trapped and they were equipped with SWAT/military grade weapons and defensive equipment.
7.  Aurora, CO, is located just minutes directly to the East of Denver, CO.
8.  Colorado is home to privileged individuals such as Lou Pai, ex-Enron CEO, now 2nd largest land owner in Denver, CO; Tom Cruises' $10-million emergency space invasion bunker; Ralph Lauren; Kevin Costner; foreign "princes"; and many others.
9.  Denver, CO is home to the infamous DIA:

----------


## PierzStyx

> I just realized that two looney toon characters are arguing.


Quick change your icon to Daffy!

----------


## KAYA

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


Ever heard of the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution?  

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

----------


## cajuncocoa

> This was a false-flag, totally, undoubtedly.
> 
> 1.  The U.N. small arms treaty is set for Legislative debating and voting in the coming weeks.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 9.*  Denver, CO is home to the infamous DIA:*


Many of the murals in that airport look like something you'd expect to see at the U.N.

----------


## Philhelm

> Coincidences:
> 
> The number of victims involves 20 injuries and 12 deaths = 2012
> 
> Incident happens two weeks before the U.N. gun control treaty.
> 
> 
> I am sure as more of the story comes out we will see more coincidences.


(2012 / 3.14159) / 20 = 32
20 + 12 = 32!

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Ever heard of the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution?  
> 
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


I think  you're responding to sarcasm.

----------


## Philhelm

> Many of the murals in that airport look like something you'd expect to see at the U.N.


My fiancée told me about the Denver Airport murals, and I found them to be quite creepy.

----------


## Indy Vidual

R.I.P. to the victims.

----------


## Expatriate

Unfortunately it appears there was no chance at all of a law-abiding gun owner saving anyone.

http://newyorkcityguns.com/2012/07/c...gun-free-zone/




> “Headquartered in Plano, TX, Cinemark Holdings, Inc. is a leader in the motion picture exhibition industry with 459 theatres and 5,181 screens in the U.S. and Latin America as of March 31, 2012,” their website reports. Cinemark owns the Century 16 movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, scene of last night’s mass shooting. *Cinemark doesn’t allow anyone other than law enforcement officers to carry legal firearms in their theaters.* The ban hadn’t escape the attention of some of Cinemark’s law-abiding, gun-toting customers—even before last night’s homicidal frenzy. Make the jump for the story of a Cinemark patron ejected from the cinema for Open Carrying [via defensivecarry.com] . . .
> (http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...k-theater.html)
> 
> 
> 
>     A friend and I decided to go see Law Abiding Citizen [in Anchorage Alaska] after attending a local 2nd Amendment organization Banquet. We were already open carrying from the Banquet so we didn’t bother putting on our jackets. We made our way into the theater and stood in line to purchase our tickets, so far there wasn’t any problems.
> 
>     I was OCing my 1911, my friend was OCing his G22, and we purchased our tickets and made our way to the theater so we could get good seats. As we near our theater two managers a male and female come out of nowhere and the conversation goes something like this . . .
> 
> ...

----------


## donnay

> One witness tells CNN Holmes did not resist arrest when cops moved in -- "He did not put up a fight."


http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/20/dark-k...pree-colorado/

Interesting...he goes into a movie theater shoots up a bunch of innocent people, and does not put up a fight when the police enter.  Hmm...definitely sounds like an MkUltra.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Just as fast as these reports have started to surface an AP story that is from "sources" seems to not collobrate what the victims have said:
> 
> http://www.denverpost.com/nationworl...t-ticket-movie
> 
> "A _U.S. official says_ the suspect in Friday's shootings inside a Colorado movie theater bought a ticket to the midnight showing of the latest Batman movie and went into the theater as part of the crowd."


Wait, wtf is a "U.S. official" doing anywhere _near_ this?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Many of the murals in that airport look like something you'd expect to see at the U.N.


Children from different countries holding hands and smiling? UN Globalist Conspiracy!

I totally saw the MKULTRA talk coming. Someone was killed with a gun by a crazy person? MKULTRA!

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Children from different countries holding hands and smiling? UN Globalist Conspiracy!
> 
> I totally saw the MKULTRA talk coming.


Derailing train is derailing.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Derailing train is derailing.


Cajuncocoa's reasoning:

Man shoots at crowd of people in movie theater. 
Man gives up without a fight
MKULTRA BRAINWASHING...IT MUST BE

Columbine, OKC, DC Sniper, RFK, and now Auroro, CO

----------


## donnay

> Derailing train is derailing.


Right on cue.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Cajuncocoa's reasoning:
> 
> Man shoots at crowd of people in movie theater. 
> Man gives up without a fight
> MKULTRA BRAINWASHING...IT MUST BE


You'd better go back and read through this thread again.  I haven't mentioned any of those things.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> You'd better go back and read through this thread again.  I haven't mentioned any of those things.


Someone brings up MKULTRA and UN
I make post
You reply with insult
Why would you do that if you don't agree with him?

----------


## donnay

> Cajuncocoa's reasoning:
> 
> Man shoots at crowd of people in movie theater. 
> Man gives up without a fight
> MKULTRA BRAINWASHING...IT MUST BE


*Ted Kaczynski*
*Manson Family*
*Columbine*
*Va Tech*

----------


## cajuncocoa

> Someone brings up MKULTRA and UN
> I make post
> You reply with insult
> Why would you do that if you don't agree with him?


Since you asked, I don't rule it out.  But until this post, I haven't said that.

You responded by quoting my post, so that why you got the answer I gave.

And when you insult me, you can expect to get an insult right back.

----------


## moostraks

> Someone brings up MKULTRA and UN
> I make post
> You reply with insult
> Why would you do that if you don't agree with him?


Are you back to apologize for misconstruing things posted by others earlier?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> *Ted Kaczynski*
> *Manson Family*
> *Columbine*
> *Va Tech*







> Are you back to apologize for misconstruing things posted by others earlier?


His post is still there for everyone to see. I misconstrued nothing




> Since you asked, I don't rule it out.


You should

----------


## KAYA

> I think  you're responding to sarcasm.


 I hope so.

----------


## Weston White

> Many of the murals in that airport look like something you'd expect to see at the U.N.


That is a good point as well, which the DIA is also home to a Freemason time capsule, strange alien/demonic symbols and statues throughout,  and the "New World Airport Commission", whatever that is...


Oh and the airport is laid out like a cobra snake and the runways form a swastika type of shape.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> You should


Based on what?

----------


## PierzStyx

If I had been there I'd sue the theater from banning me from using my right to defend myself and my loved ones.

----------


## donnay

> Based on what?


Based on what DerailingDaTrain says--because he is omnipresent, he is all seeing and all knowing.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> That is a good point as well, which the DIA is also home to a Freemason time capsule, strange alien/demonic symbols and statues throughout,  and the "New World Airport Commission", whatever that is...
> 
> 
> Oh and the airport is laid out like a cobra snake and the runways form a swastika type of shape.





> There are *several conspiracy theories relating to the airport's design and construction such as the runways being laid out in a shape similar to a swastika. Murals painted in the baggage claim area have been claimed to contain themes referring to future military oppression and a one-world government.* However, the artist, Leo Tanguma, said the murals, entitled "In Peace and Harmony With Nature" and "The Children of the World Dream of Peace," depict man-made environmental destruction and genocide along with *humanity coming together to heal nature and live in peace.*





> *Conspiracists have also seen unusual markings in the terminals in DIA and have recorded them as masonic markings.They have pointed to unusual words cut into the floor as being Satanic, Masonic, or some impenetrable secret code of the New World Order: Cochetopa, Sisnaajini and Dzit Dit Gaii.* These words are* actually Navajo terms for geographical sites in Colorado.* *"Braaksma" and "Villarreal" are actually the names of Carolyn Braaksma and Mark Villarreal, artists who worked on the airport’s sculptures and paintings.*





> There is a dedication marker in the airport inscribed with words, "New World Airport Commission". It also is inscribed with the Square and Compasses of the Freemasons, along with a listing of the two Grand Lodges of Freemasonry in Colorado. It is mounted over a time capsule that was sealed during the dedication of the airport, to be opened in 2094. *The Freemasons participated in laying this “capstone” (the last, finishing stone) of the airport project.* The capstone is inscribed with a line that states "New World Airport Commission".





> Robert Blaskiewicz writing for Skeptical Inquirer Magazine states that conspiracies about the airport range from the "absurd to the even more absurd". When asking airport media representatives, 'what conspiracies are associated with the airport', they responded, "You name a conspiracy theory and somehow we seem to be connected to it." *Blaskiewicz found that contrary to claims from conspiracy theorists that DIA will not discuss these stories with the public, they also give tours of the airport.*





> Based on what DerailingDaTrain says--because he is omnipresent, he is all seeing and all knowing.


What evidence do you have to prove he was brainwashed?

----------


## cajuncocoa

> What evidence do you have to prove he was brainwashed?


The only one here who sounds so sure of his viewpoint is you.  What proof do you have to say he wasn't?

----------


## Revolution9

> (2012 / 3.14159) / 20 = 32
> 20 + 12 = 32!


It actually equals 32.022 to three decimal points so it is not as accurate for example as the equations below using irrational numbers that actual come out with complete precision regardless of the decimal places it is rounded off to.

phi*phi = phi+1;
phi/phi = phi - 1;

pretty amazing number..

The Universe works with numbers..hence the Biblical hairs on your head being counted. There is no "random".

Rev9

----------


## moostraks

> His post is still there for everyone to see. I misconstrued nothing


As someone else previously remarked either reading comprehension is not your strong suit or you was trollin'...I'm thinking the latter as you sure disappeared at a convenient moment.

----------


## phill4paul

> Wait, wtf is a "U.S. official" doing anywhere _near_ this?


  I'm sure D.H.S. and any number of alphabet agencies associated with it took over within hours.

----------


## Revolution9

> His post is still there for everyone to see. I misconstrued nothing
> 
> 
> 
> You should


You are the pinnacle of the uninformed. Or it is your job to act as such..regardless of the pay grade or source of your commandings. My greatest woe is having to share the planet with the intellectually undead.

Rev9

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> As someone else previously remarked either reading comprehension is not your strong suit or you was trollin'...I'm thinking the latter as you sure disappeared at a convenient moment.


Man rapes herd of goats and then slaughters entire hen house in Alabama

Media will say he's a RP supporter in 3...2...1




> You are the pinnacle of the uninformed. Or it is your job to act as such..regardless of the pay grade or source of your commandings. My greatest woe is having to share the planet with the intellectually undead.
> 
> Rev9


Hmmm

Did the squad never reach you for your re-education? Damn! Well, this will not stand, now that you know my true identity as an Illuminati affiliate. A second squad has been sent to locate you for re-education.

----------


## AuH20

Mike Vandeboergh cracks me up!!!

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/



> _ You know, my daughters go to the movies. What if Malia and Sasha had been at the theater, as so many of our kids do every day? -- Barack Obama reacting to the "Colorado Movie Massacre."_
> 
> * I'll tell you what would have happened -- the Secret Service protective detail would have put several bullets through the facepiece of the moke's gas mask -- end of story. The hypocrisy of these Mandarins, who live in bodyguard envelopes whenever they venture out of their designated Green Zones, knows no bounds.* One of my daughters went to another midnight showing of the same movie here in Birmingham last night. She went with her boyfriend who was packing his permitted FEG Browning Hi-Power clone, despite the fact that the theater has a "no guns" policy.

----------


## Weston White

> What evidence do you have to prove he was brainwashed?


Because, historically, this is the standard _modus operandi_ of governmental involvement, e.g., Lee H. Oswald, Jack Ruby, Sirhan, Sirhan; the 1997 North Hollywood shootout that resulted in a nationwide assault weapons arming of local police forces; etc.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Because, historically, this is the standard _modus operandi_ of governmental involvement, e.g., Lee H. Oswald, Jack Ruby, Sirhan, Sirhan; the 1997 North Hollywood shootout that resulted in a nationwide assault weapons arming of local police forces; etc.


No

----------


## PatriotOne

> *Ted Kaczynski*
> *Manson Family*
> *Columbine*
> *Va Tech*


Sir Han Sir Han
Timothy McVeigh
John Hinckley

----------


## Danan

> If I had been there I'd sue the theater from banning me from using my right to defend myself and my loved ones.


Would you also sue a friend if you get shot by someone inside his house because he didn't allow you to enter with your guns?

----------


## phill4paul

> No


  Then for what unedited reasons did they happen?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> Would you also sue a friend if you get shot by someone inside his house because he didn't allow you to enter with your guns?


I dunno about Pierz, but that would not be a possible situation for me.  I couldn't imagine being 'friends' with someone that didn't let me carry.  The ideological gap would be too far to bridge.  So for me at least, the answer to your question would be, there is no answer.  It's an impossible situation to begin with.  Anybody who doesn't trust me to carry, doesn't trust me enough to be a 'friend' in the first place.

----------


## phill4paul

> I dunno about Pierz, but that would not be a possible situation for me.  I couldn't imagine being 'friends' with someone that didn't let me carry.  The ideological gap would be too far to bridge.  So for me at least, the answer to your question would be, there is no answer.  It's an impossible situation to begin with.  *Anybody who doesn't trust me to carry, doesn't trust me enough to be a 'friend' in the first place.*


  You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyFreedom again.

----------


## phill4paul

> Mike Vandeboergh cracks me up!!!
> 
> http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/


  He is, more often than not, spot on.

----------


## Revolution9

> Wait, wtf is a "U.S. official" doing anywhere _near_ this?


You know why. 'Nuff sed.

Rev9

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> I'm sure D.H.S. and any number of alphabet agencies associated with it took over within hours.


bloody hell.  

Colorado needs a "Sheriff's First" law.

----------


## Revolution9

> No


What a frkkin' cogent argument. Of course..I would remark that this is really the best you have to offer. I would be docking you pay if you were in my employ.

Rev9

----------


## phill4paul

> bloody hell.  
> 
> Colorado needs a "Sheriff's First" law.


  Every state does. Unfortunately, I believe that these days, in these instances, they are relegated to liaison positions.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> What a frkkin' cogent argument. Of course..I would remark that this is really the best you have to offer. I would be docking you pay if you were in my employ.
> 
> Rev9


Stop signing your posts. That's the first thing we are going to teach you in the camp.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> You know why. 'Nuff sed.
> 
> Rev9


Yeah, well, doesn't mean I like it.    Fed involvement in this is _blatantly_ unconstitutional.  There was no intrastate commercial fraud, no counterfeiting of federal instruments.  No Federal jurisdictional claim whatsoever.   I'm so mad I could spit!

----------


## bunklocoempire

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


Along with a "conservative's" view of an inanimate object:




> Mitt Romney:
> 
> "Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."


Might be good to share this one around the gun community with emphasis on the "presumptive candidate's" shift of individual responsibility to inanimate objects. 

_Instruments_ do not hunt down and kill people.

----------


## Revolution9

> Man rapes herd of goats and then slaughters entire hen house in Alabama
> 
> Media will say he's a RP supporter in 3...2...1
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> Did the squad never reach you for your re-education? Damn! Well, this will not stand, now that you know my true identity as an Illuminati affiliate. A second squad has been sent to locate you for re-education.


I don't think you work for the illuminati. I know them and their tastes in talent. They would never hire an uninformed jerk like you. You probably do not understand how silly you look in your uninformed forays to teach us "uninformed" exactly how and what to think..just like you have been trained..derailing da train. Do it for yourself./. Deprogram.

Rev9

----------


## LibertyEagle

> Man rapes herd of goats and then slaughters entire hen house in Alabama
> 
> Media will say he's a RP supporter in 3...2...1
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> Did the squad never reach you for your re-education? Damn! Well, this will not stand, now that you know my true identity as an Illuminati affiliate. A second squad has been sent to locate you for re-education.


You're making a fool of yourself in this thread.

----------


## Revolution9

> Stop signing your posts. That's the first thing we are going to teach you in the camp.


I am a traditionalist. It pisses idiots like you off to moniker my posts. Therefore I will continue the practice. It is also fair warning ..heh..

Yer Pal
Rev9

----------


## Danan

> I dunno about Pierz, but that would not be a possible situation for me.  I couldn't imagine being 'friends' with someone that didn't let me carry.  The ideological gap would be too far to bridge.  So for me at least, the answer to your question would be, there is no answer.  It's an impossible situation to begin with.  Anybody who doesn't trust me to carry, doesn't trust me enough to be a 'friend' in the first place.


Then why would someone go into a theatre that doesn't allow him to carry? And then sue it after something bad happened? If you don't like the gun policy in my house - don't go there. If you don't like the gun policy in my cinema - don't go there!

You already stated that it's the right of the property owner to decide whether or not they allow people to carry guns. It's a anti-property rights position to blame the cinema after voluntarly accepting their rules.

----------


## RP Supporter

The one thing I don't get is... he took the time to booby trap his home extensively. And then he warns the police that he has explosives all over his house? What was the point then? If he was interested in just causing mayhem, why tell anyone?

Not saying there was a conspiracy, but I find that odd.

----------


## dillo

> The one thing I don't get is... he took the time to booby trap his home extensively. And then he warns the police that he has explosives all over his house? What was the point then? If he was interested in just causing mayhem, why tell anyone?
> 
> Not saying there was a conspiracy, but I find that odd.


I also find a few things odd,  specifically how did cops with Shotguns show up in under 3 minutes.

----------


## Weston White

> No


What do you mean by "no"?  Those murals are telling a story, in this one all the nations are calling for global peace by destroying their arms, e.g., that including America and the guns of its armed citizenry, and then the promise of peace follows, as depicted by a Kabbalistic Flower or Tree of Life.

----------


## Danan

> The one thing I don't get is... he took the time to booby trap his home extensively. And then he warns the police that he has explosives all over his house? What was the point then? If he was interested in just causing mayhem, why tell anyone?
> 
> Not saying there was a conspiracy, but I find that odd.


Did he actually tell the police or did the police find the traps on their own?

----------


## phill4paul

> What do you mean by "no"?  Those murals are telling a story, in this one all the nations are calling for global peace by destroying their arms, e.g., that including America and the guns of its armed citizenry, and then the promise of peace follows, as depicted by a Kabbalistic Flower or Tree of Life.


  There was more to his post than that. You should ask him what he edited out and what he meant by it.

----------


## phill4paul

> Did he actually tell the police or did the police find the traps on their own?


  He told them. Or so we are told.

----------


## Revolution9

> What do you mean by "no"?  Those murals are telling a story, in this one all the nations are calling for global peace by destroying their arms, e.g., that including America and the guns of its armed citizenry, and then the promise of peace follows, as depicted by a Kabbalistic Flower or Tree of Life.


I believe his "No" means he is publicly expressing the internal cognitive dissonance he is experiencing. To be fair to him, he has stated prior IIRC that he too has taken psychotropics "therapy". It gets near impossible to string multiple thoughts together in a coherent series after taking these things.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> I also find a few things odd,  specifically how did cops with Shotguns show up in under 3 minutes.


And he gives up like Chapman did after the Lennon shooting..ordered by Bush Sr.. carried out by a patient of Dr Green's (look this bastards name up..he is infamous in the psychiatric community) in Hawaii, who got out of the mental ward and trained as a "security guard" and went through two airports armed with the murder weapon he was trained to shoot with and arrived in NYC with 5k USD  + cash..on a "security guards salary". Former marine and born again..

"Here come ol' flattop ( marine haircut)
He come groovin' up slowly
He got juju eyeball (eye in the triangle)
He one holy roller" ( born again)

"shoot" dodleeodoodeetdo "shoot" dodleeodoodeetdo etc. (refrain)

Rev9

----------


## Weston White

> I believe his "No" means he is publicly expressing the internal cognitive dissonance he is experiencing. To be fair to him, he has stated prior IIRC that he too has taken psychotropics "therapy". It gets near impossible to string multiple thoughts together in a coherent series after taking these things.
> 
> Rev9


Oh wow, this all gets even stranger, this took place right near where the 1999 Columbine High School massacre, which itself resulted in many, oddities and allegations of governmental malfeasance (30-minutes S/W of Aurora).

----------


## truelies

This thing smells to High Heaven of a manchurian shooter from those same sociopaths who bred & mind channeled the current machurian prez.

----------


## moostraks

> Man rapes herd of goats and then slaughters entire hen house in Alabama
> 
> Media will say he's a RP supporter in 3...2...1


Seems much more efficient to link those who belief in carrying to a mass murder when one is looking to tighten gun laws, doncha think? But alas you don't, as numerous people have tried to get you to see what pp meant when they were typing AND the fact that the msm _had_ already jumped to that conclusion and it has been posted for you to read. Yet you still persist in being a horse's rear...

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Maybe it is because of the part of the anatomy you chose to embody?

----------


## libertyjam

> And he gives up like Chapman did after the Lennon shooting..ordered by Bush Sr.. carried out by a patient of Dr Green's (look this bastards name up..he is infamous in the psychiatric community) in Hawaii, who got out of the mental ward and trained as a "security guard" and went through two airports armed with the murder weapon he was trained to shoot with and arrived in NYC with 5k USD  + cash..on a "security guards salary". Former marine and born again..
> 
> "Here come ol' flattop ( marine haircut)
> He come groovin' up slowly
> He got juju eyeball (eye in the triangle)
> He one holy roller" ( born again)
> 
> "shoot" dodleeodoodeetdo "shoot" dodleeodoodeetdo etc. (refrain)
> 
> Rev9


"He got hair down to his knee (Playin' the Hippie) 
Got to be a joker (Snitch, Fake)
He just do what he please (Proof)"

...
Got to be Good Lookin' 'Cause He's so hard to see!" (Shadow Man)

----------


## TheGrinch

> "He got hair down to his knee (Playin' the Hippie) 
> Got to be a joker (Snitch, Fake)
> He just do what he please (Proof)"
> 
> ...
> Got to be Good Lookin' 'Cause He's so hard to see!" (Shadow Man)


Come together, right now, over me (ummm.....)

----------


## KCIndy

The media don't jump to conclusions?  REALLY???

Ahem.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ct-129588.html



> *ABC News apologizes for 'incorrect' tea party report
> *
> ABC News and Brian Ross are apologizing for an "incorrect" report that James Holmes, the suspect in the Colorado theater shooting, may have had connections to the Tea Party.
> 
> "An earlier ABC News broadcast report suggested that a Jim Holmes of a Colorado Tea Party organization might be the suspect, but that report was incorrect," ABC News said in a statement. "ABC News and Brian Ross apologize for the mistake, and for disseminating that information before it was properly vetted."

----------


## KCIndy

Yeah.

The media won't do a kneejerk "blame the right" and there wouldn't be any serious consequences if they did.  Right.  Riiiiiight...   


http://www.examiner.com/article/othe...connects-phone



> *Other James Holmes receives threats and disconnects phone
> *
> Within minutes of the Aurora, Colorado theater shooting, Brian Ross of ABC News reports to George Stephanopoulos that a man named James Holmes, same first and last name as the reported suspect, is listed as member of a local Tea Party group. Ross speculates, with any proof to connect them, that this James Holmes is the suspect. A search on PeopleSmart.com finds no fewer than 12 individuals sharing that same first and last name.
> 
> Mark Steyn, substituting for Rush Limbaugh on the Rush Limbaugh Show today, reports that the James Holmes who is listed with the local Tea Party group has received several threatening calls from what Steyn calls left wing loonies. As a result, Holmes request and have his own phone disconnected to stop the harassing phone calls he's received as a result of the speculation by the media that he might be the shooting suspect.

----------


## KCIndy

Bad enough for the media to jump the gun (no pun intended) but when the Feds do it, that's when the nightmare really begins.

DOESN'T ANYONE REMEMBER THE MIAC REPORT??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missour...nalysis_Center


Ah, how short and malleable our memories really are....

----------


## phill4paul

I STILL have yet to hear more about someone opening the emergency/exit door from the inside. Seems that this revelation should be getting more legs.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Another oddity.....

The "Sports Blogger" victim Jessica Redfield was almost shot several weeks ago at the Toronto Mall shooting. It gets deeper than that though..... Only a hour or two after being killed a full page blog about her death was up (Still not a single other victim identified hours later) And then deeper..... Her brother has now been on several netowrks doing a very calm, relaxed, unemotional (almost seems scripted) by-line about her and this tragedy.

----------


## COpatriot

> Another oddity.....
> 
> The "Sports Blogger" victim Jessica Redfield was almost shot several weeks ago at the Toronto Mall shooting. It gets deeper than that though..... Only a hour or two after being killed a full page blog about her death was up (Still not a single other victim identified hours later) And then deeper..... Her brother has now been on several netowrks doing a very calm, relaxed, unemotional (almost seems scripted) by-line about her and this tragedy.


She was an intern at an FM sports station in Denver. I was listening this morning when Evans and Klatt the hosts announced she had been killed. They were pretty stunned.

----------


## tttppp

> Another oddity.....
> 
> The "Sports Blogger" victim Jessica Redfield was almost shot several weeks ago at the Toronto Mall shooting. It gets deeper than that though..... Only a hour or two after being killed a full page blog about her death was up (Still not a single other victim identified hours later) And then deeper..... Her brother has now been on several netowrks doing a very calm, relaxed, unemotional (almost seems scripted) by-line about her and this tragedy.


I believe I saw an interview with her father today. I was surprised how calm and relaxed he was. It didn't seem natural.

----------


## Dr.3D

> I dunno about Pierz, but that would not be a possible situation for me.  I couldn't imagine being 'friends' with someone that didn't let me carry.  The ideological gap would be too far to bridge.  So for me at least, the answer to your question would be, there is no answer.  It's an impossible situation to begin with.  *Anybody who doesn't trust me to carry, doesn't trust me enough to be a 'friend' in the first place.*


How about if it's your own brother?

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> How about if it's your own brother?


If that's your situation, I wish I could help you but I can't.  I'm an only child and my mother and stepfather are both avid gun owners, and I inherited most of mine from my father when he died.  Family-wise I'd probably have to go clear back to complete strangers to find someone who was a rabid antigunner.

----------


## DGambler

Read Programmed to Kill by David McGowan, this situation is very similar to ones he outlines in his book.

----------


## Dr.3D

> If that's your situation, I wish I could help you but I can't.  I'm an only child and my mother and stepfather are both avid gun owners, and I inherited most of mine from my father when he died.  Family-wise I'd probably have to go clear back to complete strangers to find someone who was a rabid antigunner.


Yep, I'm in that situation.  My brother is an avid Obama supporter and loves the idea of a New World Order.

----------


## Weston White

> Another oddity.....
> 
> The "Sports Blogger" victim Jessica Redfield was almost shot several weeks ago at the Toronto Mall shooting. It gets deeper than that though..... Only a hour or two after being killed a full page blog about her death was up (Still not a single other victim identified hours later) And then deeper..... Her brother has now been on several netowrks doing a very calm, relaxed, unemotional (almost seems scripted) by-line about her and this tragedy.


http://jessicaredfield.wordpress.com/

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> How about if it's your own brother?


What brother?

----------


## Working Poor

> Yep, I'm in that situation.  My brother is an avid Obama supporter and loves the idea of a New World Order.


Most of my family supports Obama and loves the idea of Obamacare. I think they do it because they know it makes me sick and know it would have made my dad sick Goldwater supporter that he was.

----------


## Roxi

> WTF are a 6 year old and 3 month old doing at a Batman movie?  Hollywood says guns are bad, but Hollywood gun play is good, so bring your kids.


Really?.... Really? 

Maybe the mom was still nursing. 3 month olds will usually sleep through anything if they are used to noise. I took my daughter to movies all the time when she was a baby. I realize some kids aren't well equipped for theaters, but plenty of little kids are far less obnoxious than teenagers in movie theaters. I don't understand your logic at all.

I realize now, you may have been referring to the movie choice rather than the theater itself, and with the 3 month old obviously there is no understanding. Personally it doesn't matter what Hollywood says, I'll take my kid to see a movie when I think he/she is ready for it. I don't see what age has to do with it. I don't see the difference in letting them watch the cartoon and the movie. 

anyhow... just ranting now.

----------


## Weston White

Apparently during the shooting, the trailer for "Gangster Squad" was playing.  YouTube has now pulled all of the trailers for copyright violations [Since when do they pull trailers, isn't that the point after all?] and also it seems that they are pulling the trailers from the preview segment of the new Batman movie in theaters, see at: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...+Squad+Trailer (no trailers are available for viewing).

----------


## phill4paul

> Yep, I'm in that situation.  My brother is an avid Obama supporter and loves the idea of a New World Order.


  Well, he has convictions. You have yours. You meet in the middle when you can. You agree to disagree. Don't ever compromise your beliefs. Even for family.

----------


## dannno

> http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...2#.UAldD7RfF9W
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF


Wow, really?? 

You wake up, omg there was a shooting in Colorado, it must have been my son that shot up the place!!

That's nuts.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

post deleted

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> Where were you during the Giffords shooting? 
> 
> I kept waiting and waiting for them to say that Loughner was a Ron Paul supporter. I don't know if they ever said so and got away with it, but they said enough to plant seeds of suspicion in the minds of viewers. Kept hearing about Loughner's obsession with the gold-standard. 
> 
> See my sig about scapegoats.


Yeah the media played up Loughner's incoherent mumblings about gold and currencies.  He mumbled about a lot of stuff though if you watched the youtube videos he made.

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> Actually I remember them painting him as a Right Winger/Tea Party,,, till it was confirmed that he was a Democrat that had actually worked on some "D" campaigns.


Correct.

----------


## Bruno

> Wow, really?? 
> 
> You wake up, omg there was a shooting in Colorado, it must have been my son that shot up the place!!
> 
> That's nuts.


Seems like she knew her son had a screw loose to me.

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> To be fair, they have tried to do it before.  The media tried to make the IRS kamikaze guy...James Stack? into a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.  They tried to make the Congresswoman Gabby Giffords shooter a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.
> 
> Pretty much anything they could try to pin on Paul supporters, they do try, and then when evidence comes out to the contrary they just move on like nothing happened.  So, it's more like being taught from experience that causes people to speculate they will try and make it a Pauler.
> 
> The James Stack one in particular they tried every trick in the book to make him a Pauler even after the world knew otherwise.  The media on the Gabby Giffords guy, you may recall, only stopped their assault on Paulers when the dude's 'manifesto' revealed he was only 1° of separation from a hard communist.
> 
> There have been many other examples, those were just the two that have stuck best in my head.  So yeah, it's actually been a pattern these last 5 years.  Some lunatic blows up somewhere there is usually a media rush to blame it on a Paul supporter.  Sad but true.


Excellent post Gunny!

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> When did an RP supporter murder a large group of people? I must have been sick that day


Laying blame for a tragedy at the feet of your political enemies goes back to Hitler blaming Communists for the Reichstag fire and Emperor Nero blaming Christians for Rome burning.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Well, he has convictions. You have yours. You meet in the middle when you can. You agree to disagree. Don't ever compromise your beliefs. Even for family.


Well, I'm not welcome in his home now, and he won't even talk to me on the phone.   I try not to talk about politics, but when we used to talk on the phone, he would bring it up.   Now we don't converse at all, and that's not the way I believe brothers should behave.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> //


How difficult is it to understand that nobody is saying it was a Ron Paul supporter?  We are saying the media MAY TRY to connect this to Ron Paul supporters by saying he believed in the gold standard, etc.  There is a big difference between saying the guy was a Ron Paul supporter and saying the media may try to say the guy was connected to RP supporters in some way.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> ABC already tried to link this guy to being a tea partier. (they were wrong btw, cause it was pure BS speculation)
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...night-Shooting
> 
> The media in this country is disgusting...wow.


Called it.  Your move, DerailingDaTrain.

----------


## dannno

> To be fair, they have tried to do it before.  The media tried to make the IRS kamikaze guy...James Stack? into a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.  They tried to make the Congresswoman Gabby Giffords shooter a Paul supporter until contradicting evidence came out.
> 
> Pretty much anything they could try to pin on Paul supporters, they do try, and then when evidence comes out to the contrary they just move on like nothing happened.  So, it's more like being taught from experience that causes people to speculate they will try and make it a Pauler.
> 
> The James Stack one in particular they tried every trick in the book to make him a Pauler even after the world knew otherwise.  The media on the Gabby Giffords guy, you may recall, only stopped their assault on Paulers when the dude's 'manifesto' revealed he was only 1° of separation from a hard communist.
> 
> There have been many other examples, those were just the two that have stuck best in my head.  So yeah, it's actually been a pattern these last 5 years.  Some lunatic blows up somewhere there is usually a media rush to blame it on a Paul supporter.  Sad but true.


Very good, but what bothers me is that the two posters you confronted on this issue will continue to maintain the same sort of reasoning and arguments in future threads about similar subjects.

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> Already been linked half a dozen times in this very thread prior to your post.  More now that hardrightedge has replied to your inquiry.  Erowe1's comment about where do the TP's and OW's overlap is on-point and hopefully not prescient.
> 
> The interesting thing I have seen in the past is that political affiliations are always blown up all out of proportion until it comes out they are left-wing, whereupon they quietly vanish from the media landscape.  Let's see if the same pattern follows here.


Correct +Rep

Funny how that works eh?  They stoke the fires of being these shooters being gun-totting right-wing nuts with tea party/Ron Paul type affiliations, but when it turns out the opposite is true its no longer a story and becomes a footnote to history.

----------


## matt0611

> Correct +Rep
> 
> Funny how that works eh?  They stoke the fires of being these shooters being gun-totting right-wing nuts with tea party/Ron Paul type affiliations, but when it turns out the opposite is true its no longer a story and becomes a footnote to history.


Yep, every shooting is a default right-winger libertarian anti-government tea-partier radical. 

Once they are shown to be left-wingers then its just "some guy with mental problems" and all sorts of political connection talk just vanishes.

I can think of 4-5 instances just in the last couple of years when this has happened.

----------


## cajuncocoa

Now they're going to see if the race card sticks:




> Near the scene, another neighbor, Rachel Reed, 25, recalled seeing Holmes a number of times on the stoop, with his backpack. A couple of months ago she ran into him at the Zephyr, where she had put a Lil Wayne rap song on the jukebox.
> Holmes disapproved, she said, preferring rock 'n' roll music. He came over and *"made some racially charged comments about rap,"* she said.
> "He seemed like he was a normal dude," she said. "*He was a little buzzed*."


"buzzed"....what could _that_ possibly mean?  

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86J19H20120720

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> Yep, every shooting is a default right-winger libertarian anti-government tea-partier radical. 
> 
> Once they are shown to be left-wingers then its just "some guy with mental problems" and all sorts of political connection talk just vanishes.
> 
> I can think of 4-5 instances just in the last couple of years when this has happened.


It's like the media goes by the same playbook.  Most here are not naive political neophytes, so we can foresee how these things will play out.  We understand how the game is played.

----------


## paulpwns

Alex Jones is sick man to use this tragedy for his benefit. His Dark Knight theories are beyond illogical and borderline insane. Some of you here need to seek mental help.

----------


## BucksforPaul

I am willing to bet that this cold blooded murderer was on FDA approved heavy duty psychotropic drugs.  My local news just had a comment in passing that he had mental problems, but of course no mention of the deadly government approved drugs he was on.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> What's the difference? I said Liberal, I said nothing about the other half of the GOP.


I am lost.  I, and I am sure almost everyone else here, has no idea what you are talking about.

----------


## UtahApocalypse

Bomb Squads have cleared for the night. Will return in the morning. 4 of the Evacuated buildings will allow residents in for a few minutes to retrieve items. 

I have never heard of an incident where an active device has been just left. This must be a very serious and complex situation. I would bet that Navy EOD, and other DoD assets are being at least sent the photos for analysis to help.

----------


## sailingaway

This is Jessica's sister's blog about what happened in the theatre etc :http://www.jordanghawi.com/denver-th...jessica-ghawi/

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Predicting that "X will be associated with Y" leads to "X being associating with Y".  These people are right to assume malfeasance by the media, they are right to be ready and to have a defensive posture.  However, their "3... 2... 1..." predictions do sufficient associative harm on their own.  Those comments are not smart, clever, or even all that predictive.  It subtracts from the discussion.
> 
> I could *honestly* report - with sufficient sources and attribution - that some people here think this scumbag will be associated with us.  That you are making predictions doesn't change the fact that, "This just in - members of RPF.com believe that this terrorist is, in fact, associated with the RP movement."  That is spun, not what they intended (or is it...), but a prediction all too many are happy to make true if it won't come true via media malfeasance.
> 
> If someone is murdered in your town, do you go around saying, "oh great, the cops are going to pin this on me", "no knock warrant on me in 3... 2... 1...", "can't wait for the news to call me a murderer!!!!".  You might be innocent and likely are, but you would be the first person I question and the person I _associate_ with the case until proven otherwise.
> 
> Rather than letting the media stick its own foot in its own mouth, some here are demonstrating how it will be done with their feet and their mouths.  I _get_ that they're being predictive, but thats not the impression I assume.  It looks like projection at worst and a pity party at best.
> 
> "When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you."
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...nting-back-you


National news media blaming it on someone associated with a certain group of people who supposedly hold similar values is a lot different than someone on a message board saying that the particular group they happen to be associated with is going to be blamed for it.  Nobody is talking about themselves, individually, like they are in your analogy.  That certainly would make you a suspect, but this is not someone close to the location of the shooting saying that the murders are going to be blamed on them, as an individual.  It's not like I know the guy who did it, so why would my suspicion of it being pinned on libertarians and/or anarchists have anything to do with somebody's actual suspicion of that group?  The suspicion only comes when the media actually starts talking about the guy's "links" to libertarian views.  Nobody looks at some libertarian on the internet talking about how it's going to be blamed on them and say, "That makes me suspicious of libertarians in general."  

It is hard to be as thick as you are, but bravo for being one of the most numb-skulled people on this thread who can't seem to decipher even the simplest statements correctly.  Besides, NOTHING on RP Forums is going to be broadcast on national news, so this is NOT a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I don't care who you are, you've never seen the media quotes on this message board as representative of some violent criminal who may or may not be associated with them.  That would just be ridiculous.  That would be like coming out and saying "Libertarians and Ron Paul supporters are responsible for most major crimes and acts of terrorism."  It would just be too ridiculous to ever put on the air, so they are never going to use something from this thread to try to tie it to this case because that is completely implausible and stupid.

----------


## Bastiat's The Law

> Alex Jones is sick man to use this tragedy for his benefit. His Dark Knight theories are beyond illogical and borderline insane. Some of you here need to seek mental help.


I can't stand that man.

----------


## phill4paul

> Bomb Squads have cleared for the night. Will return in the morning. 4 of the Evacuated buildings will allow residents in for a few minutes to retrieve items. 
> 
> I have never heard of an incident where an active device has been just left. This must be a very serious and complex situation. I would bet that Navy EOD, and other DoD assets are being at least sent the photos for analysis to help.



  WTF? Links, please. 
   So if the device/s were to go off tonight all evidence were to be destroyed? This is already a Fed case so WTF is up with a statement like this?

----------


## anaconda

Maybe Colorado can stop requiring concealed carry permits, and allow their citizens to arm themselves without government intervention.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Once people figure out the guy had mental problems, the next thing you'll hear on the Internets (and very likely in THIS forum) is to blame BIG PHARMA!
> 
> Here's the real problem: Mental cases do occur in a small percentage of the population and if UNMEDICATED or medicated with useless alt meds, people commit these horrible acts.
> 
> Most likely, he had not been diagnosed or taken any meds at all or STOPPED taking his meds. That when people do these crazy things. I suspect the same happened to the guy in the 2011 Norway attacks (77 people killed).
> 
> Psych drugs work and they save patients lives and often those of others.
> 
> *NOT taking psychs drugs when people should take them IS the problem here.*
> ...


Taking psych drugs is the problem.  When people try to get off of them, the addiction kicks in and they lose they minds.  That is why this stuff occurs when they get off their meds.  It's because the strongest reactions happen as people try to suddenly quit the drugs or try to quit them too quickly.  Weaning yourself off of an addictive substance can be dangerous.  You would have to completely ignore this in order to say that everyone who commits these acts after getting off of the drugs does it because they don't have the influence of the drugs on their minds anymore.  

What do you say to the fact that many psychotropic drugs are labeled as having suicidal tendencies as a side effect?  Is it so far-fetched to believe that these suicidal behaviors could also be homicidal?  They don't say that, but I bet people would freak out if they actually listed that on the bottle.

----------


## James Madison

Imagine this 10x worse and a daily occurrence. That's what it is like in Afghanistan thanks to the good ole US of A. Funny to see how Americans are shocked when it happens here but completely numb when it happens to Muslims.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> You guys are hopeless. I'll go back doing vote flipping charts.


Why would you say we are hopeless?  Because we disagreed with you?  You didn't really give any evidence of what you were saying, you just told us a bunch of stuff about how you believed pysch drugs are good and didn't back them up with anything.  Are we supposed to just believe you despite the glaring problems with that statement?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> People who are already ill can become violent by witnessing it in movies, games, etc. but just because one nut job with a gun shot up a movie theater that doesn't mean we should ban all Superhero movies.


Nobody said anything about banning anything.

----------


## phill4paul

> Maybe Colorado can stop requiring concealed carry permits, and allow their citizens to arm themselves without government intervention.


 It was a private establishment that prohibited. Those that are victims should have been aware of that. Much to their sorrow.

----------


## donnay

> I STILL have yet to hear more about someone opening the emergency/exit door from the inside. Seems that this revelation should be getting more legs.


But...but...they said he kicked the door in.  Anyone that has ever been to a movie theater and exited out of the exit door know they push out not in.  That must have been one helluva kick!

----------


## Revolution9

> Alex Jones is sick man to use this tragedy for his benefit. His Dark Knight theories are beyond illogical and borderline insane. Some of you here need to seek mental help.


Like the kind several of these killers had perhaps. Piss off with the low grade insults of other forum members. You shoulda stopped at Alex Jones but your next by proxy statement paints you as a trolling $#@! disturber. Maybe you need to get psychoanalyzed.

Rev9

----------


## phill4paul

> But...but...they said he kicked the door in.  Anyone that has ever been to a movie theater and exited out of the exit door know they push out not in.  That must have been one helluva kick!


  I don't know what source this is coming from but I can say that is false. Not that I would know something about that. No, not I. But, I have heard. You just can't kick that door in.

----------


## sailingaway

> Maybe Colorado can stop requiring concealed carry permits, and allow their citizens to arm themselves without government intervention.


a gun owner group says that cinema chain and that town banned guns.

----------


## anaconda

> It was a private establishment that prohibited. Those that are victims should have been aware of that. Much to their sorrow.


I'm gonna guess that they don't search the movie goers upon entrance.

----------


## liberty2897

note: quote is reference to earlier post about the Gifford shooting (not the current shooting being discussed)



> I just did a search and can't find anything about that and he was described as being neither left or right but instead a conspiracy theorist obsessed with the movie Zeitgeist.


Of course both of these people (in Az last year and Co yesterday) are both nothing like any Liberty-minded people that I know.  Obviously, the liberty movement is based on the non-aggression principle,  so I have no idea how anyone could even get that idea that RP supporters would be anything like this.  (not saying this to you personally, just stating it).  I do understand the people in this thread thinking that the media and powers-that-be would try to spin it that way.  That is what they do.

Having said that,  I just watched the Zeitgeist documentary you referenced.  I found it very interesting!  I can't see how someone watching it would come to the conclusion that they should start shooting people ??

One line from toward the end as a quote:  

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix?  (not sure if that was the attribution in the documentary)

----------


## donnay

> I don't know what source this is coming from but I can say that is false. Not that I would know something about that. No, not I. But, I have heard. You just can't kick that door in.



It was a dark theater, playing a movie that includes gunshots, in the middle of the night. *So when a gunman burst through an exit door*, threw a gas can into the crowd and began shooting, many inside the Aurora, Colorado, theater didn't realize what was happening.

Emma Goos saw a man come through the exit door at the front of the theater, wearing a gas mask and body armor and wielding a gun.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/col...theater-scene/

----------


## Thor

> I STILL have yet to hear more about someone opening the emergency/exit door from the inside. Seems that this revelation should be getting more legs.


I read somewhere else he bought a ticket and he went out the emergency exit and propped open the door, and got is weapons and protective gear on and came back in through the propped open door.  Not sure what is true....

----------


## Weston White

> Maybe you need to get psychoanalyzed.


Now, that is “the quote of the week” material right there.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

*Is Batman massacre staged terror?*

Infowars.com

July 20, 2012

Alex Jones analyzes the latest tragic shooting in the context of the timing and typical earmarks of events used for greater societal controls.




http://www.infowars.com/is-batman-ma...staged-terror/

----------


## Weston White

> I read somewhere else he bought a ticket and he went out the emergency exit and propped open the door, and got is weapons and protective gear on and came back in through the propped open door.  Not sure what is true....


A.  Don't sensors trip now when those types of "emergency use only" doors are opened?
B.  I know whenever I go to the theater, around every 10 to 20-minutes a movie usher comes and checks around with a lighted wand (which is really annoying).

----------


## dennydem40z

It is not as if this has not happened before.  The only reason that the lame stream media is using this event is because the shooter James Holmes in this Colorado theater is because Mr. Holmes is WHITE.  How about in 1991 when another Time Warner Film New Jack City has African American gangs in not just one but thousands of city theaters committing violence.  

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=96476755

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,313772,00.html

The Only Reason this story is getting play is this is the perfect guy to promote the UN Small Arms Treaty so Americans will agree with kicking the 2nd amendment right out of America.

Mr Holmes is perfect:  NO CRIMINAL RECORD, COLLEGE, Buys guns legally and rounds on the internet and look what happened.  They are hoping that this 24 hr coverage of this SAD EVENT WILL CONVINCE AMERICANS to give up there 2nd amendment rights.  However when it was African American gangs in 1991 who were doing the exact same thing Mr. Holmes was doing in not just 1 theater but many in big cities the MEDIA was silent on it.  This is because James Holmes fits the perfect specimen to tell them American public to give up there 2nd amendment rights and to convince them that the UN SMALL ARMS TREATY IS A GOOD IDEA.  Do not be fooled by the LAME STREAM MEDIA.  Turn the LS media off.s

----------


## donnay

> Alex Jones is sick man to use this tragedy for his benefit. His Dark Knight theories are beyond illogical and borderline insane. Some of you here need to seek mental help.


What benefit would that be?  

Most of us that are paying attention have nothing but mental clarity.

----------


## phill4paul

> I'm gonna guess that they don't search the movie goers upon entrance.


  I am quite sure. Also, I think that that they didn't have a theatre 'marshal.'

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Children from different countries holding hands and smiling? UN Globalist Conspiracy!
> 
> I totally saw the MKULTRA talk coming. Someone was killed with a gun by a crazy person? MKULTRA!


Children handing swords wrapped in flags to other children while holding hands and smiling?  That's a little weirder, don't you think?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> His post is still there for everyone to see. I misconstrued nothing
> 
> 
> 
> You should


Right, because people who think rationally and keep an open mind should just rule things out whenever they get too scary.  If it freaks you out, it CAN'T be real... can it?

----------


## Danke

TSA agents and body scanners at movie theaters would have prevented this.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Man rapes herd of goats and then slaughters entire hen house in Alabama
> 
> Media will say he's a RP supporter in 3...2...1
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> Did the squad never reach you for your re-education? Damn! Well, this will not stand, now that you know my true identity as an Illuminati affiliate. A second squad has been sent to locate you for re-education.


You are truly hopeless.  Your logic is so screwed up you can't even see the obvious flaws.  You will see someday, but not before you have been made wholly aware of how much of an idiot you are.  I take solace in knowing your brain is fogged with your own willful ignorance.  I'm glad I'll never be like you.

----------


## liberty2897

> I'm glad I'll never be like you.


Never say Never!  I learned this the hard way many times in my life. : )

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I believe his "No" means he is publicly expressing the internal cognitive dissonance he is experiencing. To be fair to him, he has stated prior IIRC that he too has taken psychotropics "therapy". It gets near impossible to string multiple thoughts together in a coherent series after taking these things.
> 
> Rev9


It makes sense.  I certainly hope that is the case because I can't stomach the thought of someone with his level of cognitive dissonance, not to mention sheer intellectual imbecility.

----------


## Revolution9

> It makes sense.  I certainly hope that is the case because I can't stomach the thought of someone with his level of cognitive dissonance, not to mention sheer intellectual imbecility.


It gets tough at times sharing this planets with the intellectually undead. I am signing up for a solar system closer to the galactic core next time.

Rev9

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> The media don't jump to conclusions?  REALLY???
> 
> Ahem.
> 
> http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...ct-129588.html


The damage has been done.  That report was no accident.

----------


## liberty2897

> It gets tough at times sharing this planets with the intellectually undead. I am signing up for a solar system closer to the galactic core next time.
> 
> Rev9


If you have a way to get close to the galactic core (what is that 50k light years away from here?), I would like to go with you.  I don't know if I qualify as the opposite of "intellectually undead"... is that the intellectually dead?...  then I probably do.

----------


## aGameOfThrones

> TSA agents and body scanners at movie theaters would have prevented this.


Or a re-release of Batman and Robin.

----------


## Nastynate

> Or a re-release of Batman and Robin.



LMAO So true.

----------


## Revolution9

> If you have a way to get close to the galactic core (what is that 50k light years away from here?), I would like to go with you.  I don't know if I qualify as the opposite of "intellectually undead"... is that the intellectually dead?...  then I probably do.


Being undead is a metaphysical anomaly as it is entropic and does not participate in the wheel of life and attempts to gather life into its ritualistic entropy in the illusion this can beat the divine creator. Ergo it is outside the Universe whilst being in it as a shadow. No wonder the light of the Sun/Son destroys it. It's opposite would be metaphysically correct and able to be mirrored by others as it is from this domain and particpating in the wheel of life. On death of this body/ship you implode down the core of your DNA and head towards the pleroma also known as the light. When you get attracted by a beautiful emerald green light close to the pleroma she will be your new mother. Take a bath, drink her wine and lay about as there ain't no chairs. Then you can talk until two. They don't have these erratica plagues closer to the core. Metaphysically this solar system is like the bubbles lazily spinning around a draining tub, adrift but attracted to the vortex and containing the flotsam and jetsom of the dejected whose dense mass does not allow it rapid ingress of the draining vortex. In the core proximity the torsion field is much more coherent and the patterning much more organised. The cultures reflect this. They understand from whence they come.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> LMAO So true.


Glad I missed that one. I was a Marvel fan. DC superheroes sucked in my youthful world.

Rev9

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It is not as if this has not happened before.  The only reason that the lame stream media is using this event is because the shooter James Holmes in this Colorado theater is because Mr. Holmes is WHITE.  How about in 1991 when another Time Warner Film New Jack City has African American gangs in not just one but thousands of city theaters committing violence.  
> 
> http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=96476755
> 
> http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,313772,00.html
> 
> The Only Reason this story is getting play is this is the perfect guy to promote the UN Small Arms Treaty so Americans will agree with kicking the 2nd amendment right out of America.
> 
> Mr Holmes is perfect:  NO CRIMINAL RECORD, COLLEGE, Buys guns legally and rounds on the internet and look what happened.  They are hoping that this 24 hr coverage of this SAD EVENT WILL CONVINCE AMERICANS to give up there 2nd amendment rights.  However when it was African American gangs in 1991 who were doing the exact same thing Mr. Holmes was doing in not just 1 theater but many in big cities the MEDIA was silent on it.  This is because James Holmes fits the perfect specimen to tell them American public to give up there 2nd amendment rights and to convince them that the UN SMALL ARMS TREATY IS A GOOD IDEA.  Do not be fooled by the LAME STREAM MEDIA.  Turn the LS media off.s


At first, I wasn't sure why you had to emphasize the fact that he was white, and I thought it was a little weird that you did so, but after reading your post, I have to say you make a very good point.  It fits together so well.

----------


## Anti Federalist

Eh, I'm not going to wade into this right now, I've got my own $#@! sandwich to deal with right now.

All I'll say is this:

No matter who it was, no matter what actually happened, you can count on this: we will all end up losing some more freedom because of it.

----------


## liberty2897

> Being undead is a metaphysical anomaly as it is entropic and does not participate in the wheel of life and attempts to gather life into its ritualistic entropy in the illusion this can beat the divine creator. Ergo it is outside the Universe whilst being in it as a shadow. No wonder the light of the Sun/Son destroys it. It's opposite would be metaphysically correct and able to be mirrored by others as it is from this domain and particpating in the wheel of life. On death of this body/ship you implode down the core of your DNA and head towards the pleroma also known as the light. When you get attracted by a beautiful emerald green light close to the pleroma she will be your new mother. Take a bath, drink her wine and lay about as there ain't no chairs. Then you can talk until two. They don't have these erratica plagues closer to the core. Metaphysically this solar system is like the bubbles lazily spinning around a draining tub, adrift but attracted to the vortex and containing the flotsam and jetsom of the dejected whose dense mass does not allow it rapid ingress of the draining vortex. In the core proximity the torsion field is much more coherent and the patterning much more organised. The cultures reflect this. They understand from whence they come.
> 
> Rev9


Now I really want to go!  I would especially like the torsion field to be more coherent with more organized patterns.  Makes me think of something I'm currently having problems with.  Seriously, I know we are all connected in ways that most of us can't begin to comprehend.   Sounds like you are probably further along that path of comprehension than most of us.  Wish I could join in.  Maybe I will when I figure things out (sounds like it is possible).  Is the emerald green closer to C23H28O8 or C21H30O2 ?  Or something else completely?

----------


## tttppp

> *Is Batman massacre staged terror?*
> 
> Infowars.com
> 
> July 20, 2012
> 
> Alex Jones analyzes the latest tragic shooting in the context of the timing and typical earmarks of events used for greater societal controls.
> 
> 
> ...


He's right about the government using this to expand TSA style searches to malls, movie theaters, etc. The media was mentioning this bull$#@! today, proposing so much security for an event that never happens, that movie theaters could not afford to exist.

----------


## Peace Piper

> Taking psych drugs is the problem.  When people try to get off of them, the addiction kicks in and they lose they minds.  That is why this stuff occurs when they get off their meds.  It's because the strongest reactions happen as people try to suddenly quit the drugs or try to quit them too quickly.  Weaning yourself off of an addictive substance can be dangerous.  You would have to completely ignore this in order to say that everyone who commits these acts after getting off of the drugs does it because they don't have the influence of the drugs on their minds anymore.  
> 
> What do you say to the fact that many psychotropic drugs are labeled as having suicidal tendencies as a side effect?  Is it so far-fetched to believe that these suicidal behaviors could also be homicidal?  They don't say that, but I bet people would freak out if they actually listed that on the bottle.


Nailed it. I was just about to type a similar post but you summed it up 

THE *One* Common Thread running through most or all of these wacko killings is psych drugs. Anyone can prove that to themselves by doing 5 min. of searching.

Here's the warning for Luvox® , one of the drugs taken by one of the Columbine teens:

BOX WARNING

Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs
Antidepressants increased the risk compared to placebo of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of LUVOX® CR (fluvoxamine maleate) Extended-Release Capsules or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older. 

Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. LUVOX CR Capsules are not approved for use in pediatric patients. (See WARNINGS: Clinical Worsening and Suicide Risk, PRECAUTIONS: Information for Patients, and PRECAUTIONS: Pediatric Use.)...(more)
http://www.druglib.com/druginfo/luvo...s_precautions/

***

I'd be willing to bet that this latest shooter is either on, or recently quit some of these psych meds, 

There's a "drug war" going on, whereupon ninja clad warriors break into homes to eradicate plants, while these psych meds are advertised, and pushed in all manners all the while no one knows how any of this stuff performs over the long (50 yr) term.

It's institutional insanity.

And no one should expect the "news" orgs to investigate this documented link, because they don't want to lose the commercials with the neon butterflies.

Sick nation.

Oh, and one more thing, very few people even know what nutrients their body needs *every day* (or problems start to develop) let alone actually eat them or supplement their diet. Just the lack of an essential acid or mineral can set off a chain reaction that results in disease. But these "doctors" prescribe as many as 14 hard core drugs at a time (a relative was on 14 prescribed hard core drugs and didn't even know what each one did) while ignoring the patients basic diet. Institutional insanity.

----------


## DamianTV

Just another bad situation that could have been avoided if just one person in the audience had enough brains to use their Right to Bear Arms.

----------


## parocks

> Oh, and one more thing, very few people even know what nutrients their body needs *every day* (or problems start to develop) let alone actually eat them or supplement their diet. Just the lack of an essential acid or mineral can set off a chain reaction that results in disease. But these "doctors" prescribe as many as 14 hard core drugs at a time (a relative was on 14 prescribed hard core drugs and didn't even know what each one did) while ignoring the patients basic diet. Institutional insanity.


Yeah, this is starting to piss me off.  Magnesium Chloride and Sodium Bicarbonate are very very cheap to buy.  So is Milk of Magnesia which can be added to carbonated water.  So is concord grape juice.  All very cheap to buy.  Seawater is free. No profit for big pharma, who works with big government.  When your business is inventing new chemicals and then testing them to see what they do and then patenting them, you don't even want to think that stuff that already exists is the most likely to solve the problem, whatever it may be.  Minerals used to be in the soil, and then in the foods that we ate.  Minerals are gone from the soil, and food is often not even food anymore.  Cancer is extremely common today, was almost unheard of 100 years ago, and almost everyone's blood is too acidic.  Look at SSRIs.  They found that people were lacking serotonin.  Instead of figuring out why that was, and getting people's serotonin back up to normal (l-tryptophan, 5htp, magnesium) naturally, because these things are usually based on deficiencies of some sort, they figured out how to shrink the serotonin receptors so that you don't need as much serotonin.  That's prozac or something similar, and it tends to make people into zombies sorta.

----------


## Petar

> Being undead is a metaphysical anomaly as it is entropic and does not participate in the wheel of life and attempts to gather life into its ritualistic entropy in the illusion this can beat the divine creator. Ergo it is outside the Universe whilst being in it as a shadow. No wonder the light of the Sun/Son destroys it. It's opposite would be metaphysically correct and able to be mirrored by others as it is from this domain and particpating in the wheel of life. On death of this body/ship you implode down the core of your DNA and head towards the pleroma also known as the light. When you get attracted by a beautiful emerald green light close to the pleroma she will be your new mother. Take a bath, drink her wine and lay about as there ain't no chairs. Then you can talk until two. They don't have these erratica plagues closer to the core. Metaphysically this solar system is like the bubbles lazily spinning around a draining tub, adrift but attracted to the vortex and containing the flotsam and jetsom of the dejected whose dense mass does not allow it rapid ingress of the draining vortex. In the core proximity the torsion field is much more coherent and the patterning much more organised. The cultures reflect this. They understand from whence they come.
> 
> Rev9


Ok, so you are saying that the pond-scum that grows in the middle of the galaxy is better than the pond-scum that grows farther out?

Please explain.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> New law, 1 gun per person. Nobody needs more than one firearm with which to protect themselves.


You do if it runs out of ammo and you have an immediate need to keep firing.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> If Obama gets re-elected, there is going to be some gun-grabbing.


Absolutely. Possibly on a level we haven't seen since Nazi Germany.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Twitter talking about one of those killed.. https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield
> 
> Check out her last tweet.... 
> 
> Jessica Redfield ‏@JessicaRedfield
> 
> @jessespector MOVIE DOESN'T START FOR 20 MINUTES
> 
> Jessica Redfield ‏@JessicaRedfield
> ...


Holy f*ck

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Some fookin' Governor on MSNBC calling for complete ban on 'assault' weapons. Limitations on amount of guns. Limitation on ammo purchase and high capacity magazines. "Not needed for hunting." "Not needed to protect oneself in their home."
>   These people are insane.
>   Edit: Christ, now he is saying that ALL amendment rights come with 'common sense' limitations.


*facepalm*

----------


## devil21

Yall ever notice that whenever an angry person drives a car into a crowd of people and kills a bunch that there's never any cry to ban cars?

----------


## kathy88

I just read a comment on a Yahoo article about one of the victims that said James Holmes graduated from Columbine HS. It was just a random comment, but I wonder if this is true?

----------


## matt0611

> I just read a comment on a Yahoo article about one of the victims that said James Holmes graduated from Columbine HS. It was just a random comment, but I wonder if this is true?


According to MSNBC he attended and graduated Westview High School in San Diego.

----------


## kathy88

> According to MSNBC he attended and graduated Westview High School in San Diego.


Thank you. That would have been just too awful.

----------


## Revolution9

> Ok, so you are saying that the pond-scum that grows in the middle of the galaxy is better than the pond-scum that grows farther out?
> 
> Please explain.


Pond scum only grows where the velocity and vibratory level of the local morphogenetic/torsion field are low and not so coherent. Their force and form tell the metaphysical story.. BTW.. I ain't pond scum..If you consider yourself that well..have at it pal. Sounds to me like something some self possessed egregorian tries to heap on humanities shoulders with their pseudo-science BS.

Rev9

----------


## qh4dotcom

It's really sad that all these folks went to watch a bunch of Hollywood socialists in front of a camera pretending to be someone that they are not and this had to happen to them. I hope they stay away from statists next time and focus more on reality instead of fiction....they'll be safer attending Ron Paul meetups.

----------


## donnay

> I just read a comment on a Yahoo article about one of the victims that said James Holmes graduated from Columbine HS. It was just a random comment, but I wonder if this is true?


I do not think so.  From the reports I had seen James Holmes was a graduate of Westview High School, Class of 2006 in San Diego, CA.  The interesting thing is, Aurora, Co. is only 4 or so miles from the military base that Eric Harris' father worked and 15 miles from Columbine.


There has been some reports that James Holmes is part of the OWS Black Bloc.  I am not sure if this is disinformation, because the source telling this is a *Private* Investigator working as an FBI Partner InfraGard.  

A little history on *InfraGard*--these are the modern-day brownshirts.

----------


## Tiso0770

CIA black ops false flag....an excuse for gun grabbing and i smell Hillery Clinton's name written all over this.

----------


## cjm

> Glad I missed that one. I was a Marvel fan. DC superheroes sucked in my youthful world.
> 
> Rev9


I think Batman and Robin are technically crime fighters and not superheroes.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> What do you mean by "no"?  Those murals are telling a story, in this one all the nations are calling for global peace by destroying their arms, e.g., that including America and the guns of its armed citizenry, and then the promise of peace follows, as depicted by a Kabbalistic Flower or Tree of Life.






> There are *several conspiracy theories relating to the airport's design and construction such as the runways being laid out in a shape similar to a swastika. Murals painted in the baggage claim area have been claimed to contain themes referring to future military oppression and a one-world government.* However, the artist, Leo Tanguma, said the murals, entitled "In Peace and Harmony With Nature" and "The Children of the World Dream of Peace," depict man-made environmental destruction and genocide along with *humanity coming together to heal nature and live in peace.*





> *Conspiracists have also seen unusual markings in the terminals in DIA and have recorded them as masonic markings.They have pointed to unusual words cut into the floor as being Satanic, Masonic, or some impenetrable secret code of the New World Order: Cochetopa, Sisnaajini and Dzit Dit Gaii.* These words are* actually Navajo terms for geographical sites in Colorado.* *"Braaksma" and "Villarreal" are actually the names of Carolyn Braaksma and Mark Villarreal, artists who worked on the airport’s sculptures and paintings.*





> There is a dedication marker in the airport inscribed with words, "New World Airport Commission". It also is inscribed with the Square and Compasses of the Freemasons, along with a listing of the two Grand Lodges of Freemasonry in Colorado. It is mounted over a time capsule that was sealed during the dedication of the airport, to be opened in 2094. *The Freemasons participated in laying this “capstone” (the last, finishing stone) of the airport project.* The capstone is inscribed with a line that states "New World Airport Commission".





> Robert Blaskiewicz writing for Skeptical Inquirer Magazine states that conspiracies about the airport range from the "absurd to the even more absurd". When asking airport media representatives, 'what conspiracies are associated with the airport', they responded, "You name a conspiracy theory and somehow we seem to be connected to it." *Blaskiewicz found that contrary to claims from conspiracy theorists that DIA will not discuss these stories with the public, they also give tours of the airport.*


lol

That mural is clearly meant to show that those countries are destroying their military arms. That's why the flags and the dying soldier are there FFS

Why do you people believe in such bull$#@!?

Everything that ever happens is a government black op false flag to you and everyone who was involved was brainwashed. Stop watching Alex Jones for a bit and you might start to see things for how they really are.




> I believe his "No" means he is publicly expressing the internal cognitive dissonance he is experiencing. To be fair to him, he has stated prior IIRC that he too has taken psychotropics "therapy". It gets near impossible to string multiple thoughts together in a coherent series after taking these things.
> 
> Rev9


I've never once said I had any type of therapy or that I take any medication (which I don't) 

So...why don't you shut the $#@! up about me, wrap on some more tin foil, and head back down to the basement?

----------


## cajuncocoa

*The Aurora shooting victims*

----------


## A Son of Liberty

Some folks have made definitive declarations, here.  Would they mind citing their evidence?  

I'm fine with the theory that this was a false-flag operation.  I'd just like to see some solid evidence that it was.  

I'll wait here.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I quit listening to AJ a few years ago due to his sensationalism, but I always gave him credit and the benefit of the doubt due to his being on point about so much over the years.  But after watching this vid, and the one on top of pg 19, he's completely lost it.  Seriously....  illuminati programming to fear terrorists through a shark movie?  joker being a libertarian and batman a black jesus?  Come on, AJ is losing credibility by the minute.


Just because you can't handle reality doesn't mean someone loses credibility for pointing things out. You should do some research instead of living in a fantasy world.

----------


## AuH20

Alex Jones say all they need is 2 more senators to ratify this horrible treaty??? Is this true??? I don't have much confidence if it's down to only 2 senators. We've all seen this before.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Joker doesn't have red hair though


Yeah and the guy was dressed more like Bane. Just some more MSM spin bull$#@!.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I am not going to flame you, you're entitled to your opinion.  I think you are missing point.  Hollywood has played a very influential part on peoples psyches.  When Jaws came out in the summer of 1975, the beaches all across the country had beach-goers that wouldn't so much as stick a foot into the ocean.  If you do not agree with that analogy, you are not understanding how movies have played a key role in molding peoples minds.  Of course, if you look at the statistics of people being killed by great whites in the U.S. you would understand you have a better chance of being struck by lightning--twice, than being attacked by a great white.


This ^

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Coincidences:
> 
> The number of victims involves 20 injuries and 12 deaths = 2012
> 
> *Incident happens two weeks before the U.N. gun control treaty.*
> 
> 
> I am sure as more of the story comes out we will see more coincidences.


Bolded part IS NOT a coincidence.

----------


## Danke

> Pond scum ...If you consider yourself that well..have at it pal. 
> Rev9


Haven't we already establish Petar is pond scum a long time ago?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I am starting to see $#@! where the cops knew about this being a false flag op. The site hosting the police radio recordings has been blocked but if these can be found it apparently shows knowledge of the event. Anybody can find a working link to the calls?
> 
> Rev9


Did anyone ever find a working link?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> *This was a false-flag, totally, undoubtedly.*
> 
> 1.  The U.N. small arms treaty is set for Legislative debating and voting in the coming weeks.
> 2.  The media and governmental "officials" are already drumming forth the controversial gun control debate.
> 3.  The federal government was just busted on operation "fast and furious", and are facing the consequences of that utter debacle; ergo, if they could successfully pull of another such operation, it would only serve to provide forgiveness to the former and aid in burying their past aggressions, as well as the public's call for their criminal prosecution.
> 4.  One of the shooters was a Ph.D in human biology, chemistry, technology, and nervous systems (i.e., neuroscience).
> 5.  The theater is located just minutes from a U.S. Military Air-force base.
> 6.  One of the shooters had his home booby-trapped and they were equipped with SWAT/military grade weapons and defensive equipment.
> 7.  Aurora, CO, is located just minutes directly to the East of Denver, CO.
> ...


I agree 100%. Those who do not believe this was a false flag need to explain away alot of things.

----------


## UWDude

Isn't this the same Aurora colorado that recently pulled over 42 people to catch a bank robber?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/20/dark-k...pree-colorado/
> 
> Interesting...he goes into a movie theater shoots up a bunch of innocent people, and does not put up a fight when the police enter.  Hmm...definitely sounds like an MkUltra.


For sure. No way in hell does someone go on a killing spree and then peacefully surrender and tell law enforcement his house is booby trapped.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Children from different countries holding hands and smiling? UN Globalist Conspiracy!
> 
> *I totally saw the MKULTRA talk coming. Someone was killed with a gun by a crazy person? MKULTRA!*


Are you even attempting to educate yourself on the facts of the case?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Cajuncocoa's reasoning:
> 
> Man shoots at crowd of people in movie theater. 
> Man gives up without a fight
> MKULTRA BRAINWASHING...IT MUST BE
> 
> Columbine, OKC, DC Sniper, RFK, and now Auroro, CO


Have you educated yourself on the facts of any of those cases? it doesn't sound like it.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> His post is still there for everyone to see. I misconstrued nothing
> 
> 
> 
> *You should*


Why?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> That is a good point as well, which the DIA is also home to a Freemason time capsule, strange alien/demonic symbols and statues throughout,  and the "New World Airport Commission", whatever that is...
> 
> 
> Oh and the airport is laid out like a cobra snake and the runways form a swastika type of shape.


But that's just a coincidence you crazy nutjob!

/s

----------


## Petar

> Pond scum only grows where the velocity and vibratory level of the local morphogenetic/torsion field are low and not so coherent. Their force and form tell the metaphysical story.. BTW.. I ain't pond scum..If you consider yourself that well..have at it pal. Sounds to me like something some self possessed egregorian tries to heap on humanities shoulders with their pseudo-science BS.
> 
> Rev9





> Haven't we already establish Petar is pond scum a long time ago?


My force and form tells my metaphysical story.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> If I had been there I'd sue the theater from banning me from using my right to defend myself and my loved ones.


Only you consented to this "contract" by buying a ticket and going in and watching the movie. But yeah I'd sue anyway just to bring light to the subject.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> You are the pinnacle of the uninformed. Or it is your job to act as such..regardless of the pay grade or source of your commandings. My greatest woe is having to share the planet with the intellectually undead.
> 
> Rev9


+rep

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Man rapes herd of goats and then slaughters entire hen house in Alabama
> 
> Media will say he's a RP supporter in 3...2...1
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> Did the squad never reach you for your re-education? Damn! Well, this will not stand, now that you know my true identity as an Illuminati affiliate. A second squad has been sent to locate you for re-education.


Now you're just making $#@! up. You're making yourself sound incredibly ignorant. I'd like to think you have more intelligence than this.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> No


Just no? You aren't going to provide any evidence? You're just going to deny it?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Stop signing your posts. That's the first thing we are going to teach you in the camp.


Ok now you are definitely just trolling....which really is the only thing you have been doing in this thread to begin with.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Have you educated yourself on the facts of any of those cases? it doesn't sound like it.


Yes I have and no I'm not trolling. Either they are uninformed or they are a troll has always been the response when someone doesn't agree with you guys. I've been called a troll, a liberal, a spy, a plant, a neocon, and much more and none of that is true.

When your first response to a horrible tragedy committed by a psychopath is to say he was brainwashed and this is a government false flag to take away our 2nd amendment rights when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up...your credibility goes out the window.




> Ok now you are definitely just trolling....which really is the only thing you have been doing in this thread to begin with.


No. At the time of that post I was messing around with a crazy person




> Columbine was indeed another false flag.


Is that because Alex Jones said it was?

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> I agree 100%. Those who do not believe this was a false flag need to explain away alot of things.


Wat??  So far, evidence shows that a person went into a theater and killed 12 people.

You have a theory that this was an orchestrated event.  

PROVE IT.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Wat??  So far, evidence shows that a person went into a theater and killed 12 people.
> 
> You have a theory that this was an orchestrated event.  
> 
> PROVE IT.


Get outta here with your trolling you uninformed troll. Why you spreading this misinformation? You a plant for the Illuminati bro?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Oh wow, this all gets even stranger, this took place right near where the 1999 Columbine High School massacre, which itself resulted in many, oddities and allegations of governmental malfeasance (30-minutes S/W of Aurora).


Columbine was indeed another false flag.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Columbine was indeed another false flag.


Has anyone ever been shot and it wasn't an inside job?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Has anyone ever been shot and it wasn't an inside job?


Nope. Otzi the Iceman was a false flag too

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> "He got hair down to his knee (Playin' the Hippie) 
> Got to be a joker (Snitch, Fake)
> He just do what he please (Proof)"
> 
> ...
> Got to be Good Lookin' 'Cause He's so hard to see!" (Shadow Man)


Wait is this the song that the theatre shooter was playing for an hour?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I STILL have yet to hear more about someone opening the emergency/exit door from the inside. Seems that this revelation should be getting more legs.


The fact that it isn't should tell you it really happened and should make you think that maybe there's more to this than some lone nutjob or two random nutjobs.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Yep, I'm in that situation.  My brother is an avid Obama supporter and loves the idea of a New World Order.


You haven't had any luck trying to wake him up? How does he justify the New World Order being a loveable idea?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> The fact that it isn't should tell you it really happened and should make you think that maybe there's more to this than some lone nutjob or two random nutjobs.


He bought a ticket, opened the door, left it propped open, got suited up, and then came back. That's been known since yesterday

People were initially confused and thought it was two different people but it was the same person.

----------


## MelissaWV

> The fact that it isn't should tell you it really happened and should make you think that maybe there's more to this than some lone nutjob or two random nutjobs.


Yeah!  Wait, what?

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/252...movie-theater-

----------


## erowe1

> The fact that it isn't should tell you it really happened and should make you think that maybe there's more to this than some lone nutjob or two random nutjobs.


The fact that something someone claims they saw does not get mentioned more in the news is proof that it really happened?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> It is not as if this has not happened before.  The only reason that the lame stream media is using this event is because the shooter James Holmes in this Colorado theater is because Mr. Holmes is WHITE.  How about in 1991 when another Time Warner Film New Jack City has African American gangs in not just one but thousands of city theaters committing violence.  
> 
> http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=96476755
> 
> http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,313772,00.html
> 
> The Only Reason this story is getting play is this is the perfect guy to promote the UN Small Arms Treaty so Americans will agree with kicking the 2nd amendment right out of America.
> 
> Mr Holmes is perfect:  NO CRIMINAL RECORD, COLLEGE, Buys guns legally and rounds on the internet and look what happened.  They are hoping that this 24 hr coverage of this SAD EVENT WILL CONVINCE AMERICANS to give up there 2nd amendment rights.  However when it was African American gangs in 1991 who were doing the exact same thing Mr. Holmes was doing in not just 1 theater but many in big cities the MEDIA was silent on it.  This is because James Holmes fits the perfect specimen to tell them American public to give up there 2nd amendment rights and to convince them that the UN SMALL ARMS TREATY IS A GOOD IDEA.  Do not be fooled by the LAME STREAM MEDIA.  Turn the LS media off.s


+rep

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> It gets tough at times sharing this planets with the intellectually undead. *I am signing up for a solar system closer to the galactic core next time.
> *
> Rev9


Where do I sign?

----------


## MelissaWV

Oddly I remember hearing about those shootings.  The media ignored this so much that, even over a decade later, you can find information about them from media outlets.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Eh, I'm not going to wade into this right now, I've got my own $#@! sandwich to deal with right now.
> 
> All I'll say is this:
> 
> No matter who it was, no matter what actually happened, you can count on this: *we will all end up losing some more freedom because of it.*


Without a doubt.

----------


## phill4paul

> Yeah!  Wait, what?
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/252...movie-theater-


  As I posted earlier there was also I caller on MSNBC that also reported this same event. I am not sure if they are the same individuals but the voices don't seem to match to my recollection. If this is so then there are two witnesses to this event. I am very interested to hear more of and it seems to me that a revelation such as this would have more legs to news agencies.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> As I posted earlier there was also I caller on MSNBC that also reported this same event. I am not sure if they are the same individuals but the voices don't seem to match to my recollection. If this is so then there are two witnesses to this event. I am very interested to hear more of and it seems to me that a revelation such as this would have more legs to news agencies.


I already said they know who it was. It was the shooter

He purchased a ticket, went outside, left the door propped, got dressed, and then came back in. There was no second person

----------


## donnay

> I already said they know who it was. It was the shooter
> 
> He purchased a ticket, went outside, left the door propped, got dressed, and then came back in. There was no second person


That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Isn't this the same Aurora colorado that recently pulled over 42 people to catch a bank robber?


Yes.

http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2012...ng-for-robber/

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Yes I have and no I'm not trolling. Either they are uninformed or they are a troll has always been the response when someone doesn't agree with you guys. I've been called a troll, a liberal, a spy, a plant, a neocon, and much more and none of that is true.
> 
> When your first response to a horrible tragedy committed by a psychopath is to say he was brainwashed and this is a government false flag to take away our 2nd amendment rights when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up...your credibility goes out the window.
> 
> 
> 
> No. At the time of that post I was messing around with a crazy person
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. Nope.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Has anyone ever been shot and it wasn't an inside job?


I would assume so.

----------


## MelissaWV

> I already said they know who it was. It was the shooter
> 
> He purchased a ticket, went outside, left the door propped, got dressed, and then came back in. There was no second person


*shrugs* Accounts seem to vary on that.  It would appear that some recall the person coming back and sitting down and then the shooter coming in.  Honestly, they don't even have to be in cahoots.  There are all kinds of scenarios that explain the behavior, and not all involve conspiracy between two people (if there were two), just as not all exclude it.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.


Really? That's weird

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I already said they know who it was. It was the shooter
> 
> He purchased a ticket, went outside, left the door propped, got dressed, and then came back in. *There was no second person*


I had no idea you were at the midnight showing of Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado.

----------


## donnay

An excerpt from and article I wrote:

Emma Goos told *CNN*, “[She] saw a man come through the exit door at the front of the theater, wearing a gas mask and body armor and wielding a gun.”   The report goes on to say, “It was a dark theater, playing a movie that includes gunshots, in the middle of the night. So when a gunman burst through an exit door, threw a gas can into the crowd and began shooting, many inside the Aurora, Colorado, theater didn’t realize what was happening.”

How do you burst into a door that opens from the inside out?  Some movie theaters even have motion detectors and cameras turned to their doors so ushers would know that someone may try to open it to sneak a non-ticket holder in.  Upon searching for some answers, I came across DIY Blog that gives tips on how to sneak into a movie theater, which I found interesting:

_How to Sneak Into a Movie – Backdoor
Sneaking in the back door or through a theater exit Listen carefully to this one, THERE ARE CAMERAS at the back doors and ALARMS on the theater exits. It is far easier to sneak in the front then it is through the back. DO NOT SNEAK THROUGH THE BACK DOOR_

----------


## puppetmaster

Why would a parent take very small children out at this time to a very loud and violent movie?

Are they employed or are they tax feeders....

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> I had no idea you were at the midnight showing of Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado.


Nah but everyone who was there has been interviewed by the police and CNN, ABC, Fox, NBC, etc. 

I guess you will just have to wait for AJ's next video to find out the truth.

----------


## MelissaWV

Not every theater has alarms or cameras on the doors; it would be interesting to find out the facts on this one, too, rather than make assumptions about it.  You can "burst" through a door by flinging it open and entering.  It does not have to open inward.  




> to issue forth suddenly and forcibly, as from confinement or through an obstacle

----------


## Zippyjuan

It is facinating (and in some cases scary) to see how people are interpreting a tragic event.  It is usually framed based on how you see the world. First it was that it was some sort of government backed conspiracy- because you (a generic "you"- not any specific person) see the government somehow behind every bad thing which happens. Isolated incedents become part of some grand plan against you.  Now it is welfare moms or bums out to the theater.  Like they were doing something bad instead of trying to enjoy a night out. 




> Are they employed or are they tax feeders....


I guess working people don't go to movies?

----------


## donnay

> Not every theater has alarms or cameras on the doors; it would be interesting to find out the facts on this one, too, rather than make assumptions about it.  You can "burst" through a door by flinging it open and entering.  It does not have to open inward.


Movie theater exit doors do not have handles on the outside.

----------


## pcosmar

> Wat??  So far, evidence shows that a person went into a theater and killed 12 people.
> 
> You have a theory that this was an orchestrated event.  
> 
> PROVE IT.


I have no "theory",, I have suspicions.

And witnesses reported 2 people (at least) throwing smoke.
There are statements (sanitized) being made by officials,, there is a LOT of Hype.

I am sure this guy was on some type of SSRI and under the "supervision of a handler,, as were many if not all or the subjects of similar bizarre behavior.

And that $#@! was easily engineered,,long ago.
I believe that program never ended.
That is my belief.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Movie theater exit doors do not have handles on the outside.


I did not say that they did.  You can open a door that is already propped open, and "burst" through, by yanking on the edge of it.  Witnesses have already said the door was not entirely closed.  Accounts differ about why the door was partly open.  It is interesting you have introduced the fact the doors don't have handles on the outside, to counter my assertion that maybe we should wait for the facts, and that not all exit doors have cameras or alarms.

No one's hand is in that shot.  How is the door open?

It would appear it can be propped open, even slightly, just like any other door.

----------


## Dr.3D

> Movie theater exit doors do not have handles on the outside.


When I worked at the movie theater, we used to put a lead block (stage weight) between the doors when we went out so we could get back in.

----------


## Zippyjuan

The reports I saw said the shooter bought a ticket, entered the theater and sat down a bit. Then went out the exit door- propping it open with a  bag and he later re-entered through the same door.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

*Cover-Up? FBI Theater Attack Warning Memory-Holed* 

You Tube
 Saturday, July 21, 2012




It appears the FBI attempted to remove from the Internet a warning from 2 months ago that theaters would be attacked.

http://www.infowars.com/cover-up-fbi...ttack-warning/

----------


## tttppp

> I did not say that they did.  You can open a door that is already propped open, and "burst" through, by yanking on the edge of it.  Witnesses have already said the door was not entirely closed.  Accounts differ about why the door was partly open.  It is interesting you have introduced the fact the doors don't have handles on the outside, to counter my assertion that maybe we should wait for the facts, and that not all exit doors have cameras or alarms.
> 
> No one's hand is in that shot.  How is the door open?
> 
> It would appear it can be propped open, even slightly, just like any other door.


I used to work at a movie theater. We had no cameras watching the doors and for good reason. There was never a reported instance in my time working there when a customer stuck in through the exit doors. It doesn't make sense to spend the money to invest in camera equipment for every theater and to pay someone to watch the cameras 100% of the time for a problem that does not exist.

We did have people checking the theater all the time to make sure everything was in order. Perhaps this theater did not bother to check the theaters and did not notice the exit door wasn't shut all the way.

----------


## phill4paul



----------


## MelissaWV

> I used to work at a movie theater. We had no cameras watching the doors and for good reason. There was never a reported instance in my time working there when a customer stuck in through the exit doors. It doesn't make sense to spend the money to invest in camera equipment for every theater and to pay someone to watch the cameras 100% of the time for a problem that does not exist.


Even if a few people snuck in, I agree, it's not worth the equipment cost.  I was addressing donnay's earlier article that purports to prove the shooter could not have come in through the back door because the doors have alarms and cameras.  Frankly, I know that's bunk because the theater here has back doors that let out into the parking lot.  The front ones are locked after the midnight movies begin.  The back ones only open from the inside.  That is the only way to leave a midnight showing at the theaters here, and no alarm goes off.

I am quite sure that SOME have cameras and alarms, especially in certain areas.  I'm not sure if THIS one did.

----------


## Zippyjuan

One report from today:
http://enews.earthlink.net/article/t...7-81ce461c1b54



> After buying a ticket to the movie, Holmes went into the theater and propped open an exit door several minutes into the film, a federal law enforcement official said. The suspect then returned in protective gear and with high-powered weapons and opened fire, shooting scores of people and picking off victims who tried to flee, officials said.

----------


## tttppp

> Even if a few people snuck in, I agree, it's not worth the equipment cost.  I was addressing donnay's earlier article that purports to prove the shooter could not have come in through the back door because the doors have alarms and cameras.  Frankly, I know that's bunk because the theater here has back doors that let out into the parking lot.  The front ones are locked after the midnight movies begin.  The back ones only open from the inside.  That is the only way to leave a midnight showing at the theaters here, and no alarm goes off.
> 
> I am quite sure that SOME have cameras and alarms, especially in certain areas.  I'm not sure if THIS one did.


The one I worked at was a major chain, so my guess is that most theaters do not have alarms or cameras. Additionally, if this theater was run by typical movie theater management, they wouldn't have checked the theaters anyways, so someone could easily have propped it open from an earlier show. So its possible he executed this alone.

That said, we should not be jumping to conclusions and forcing every theater to guard their exits as if they were prisons.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Even if a few people snuck in, I agree, it's not worth the equipment cost.  I was addressing donnay's earlier article that purports to prove the shooter could not have come in through the back door because the doors have alarms and cameras.  Frankly, I know that's bunk because the theater here has back doors that let out into the parking lot.  The front ones are locked after the midnight movies begin.  The back ones only open from the inside.  That is the only way to leave a midnight showing at the theaters here, and no alarm goes off.
> 
> I am quite sure that SOME have cameras and alarms, especially in certain areas.  I'm not sure if THIS one did.


I know neither theatre here in Merced have alarms that go off if you go in or out the back door. Both have the doors that can only open from the inside. I would like to know which doors this theatre in Aurora has and if there were any active cameras or alarms.

----------


## tttppp

> I know neither theatre here in Merced have alarms that go off if you go in or out the back door. Both have the doors that can only open from the inside. I would like to know which doors this theatre in Aurora has and if there were any active cameras or alarms.


Even if the exits were guarded, he could have gone in the front entrance since people were allowed to go in with costumes at the time.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> I have no "theory",, I have suspicions.
> 
> And witnesses reported 2 people (at least) throwing smoke.
> There are statements (sanitized) being made by officials,, there is a LOT of Hype.
> 
> I am sure this guy was on some type of SSRI and under the "supervision of a handler,, as were many if not all or the subjects of similar bizarre behavior.
> 
> And that $#@! was easily engineered,,long ago.
> I believe that program never ended.
> That is my belief.


That's fine.  I have my suspicions, too.  But I don't speak in definitives until I have seen solid evidence, unlike some other folks.  

Tell me something, is Alex Jones going to back-pedal on this and say, "hey, you know what, it turns out this guy just went nuts... it turns out he's not a bit player in the grand NWO scheme to take over the planet.  He's just a random nutjob...", if it turns out to be the case?  Nope.  He's going to fit the evidence to his narrative.

His routine is wearing thin with me.  It seems he doesn't give a $#@! about those people... he seems to care only about his narrative.

----------


## paulpwns

I wish all these AJers that wanted to be sent into outer space could actually be sent there. If you want to blame this on the govt. then you need some proof. All you have is speculation and wild accusations and conjecture.

----------


## donnay

*Witness tried to keep door closed on Colo. gunman*
http://hosted2.ap.org/CAANR/162267dc...9c14bec2e19e53

AURORA, Colo. (AP) — An eager audience forgoing sleep to take in the midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" instead were witnesses Friday to a bloody mass shooting at a suburban Denver movie theater. Police said a man clad in black threw a canister that spewed smoke before he opened fire. Witnesses said that at first, they thought it was a prank or a stunt. Then the gunman shot steadily at the audience, not speaking. Some of their accounts:

___

Jennifer Seeger, 25, from Aurora said she was in the second row, about four feet from the gunman, when he pointed a gun at her face.

At first, "I was just a deer in headlights. I didn't know what to do," she said. Then she ducked to the ground.

The gunman shot people seated behind her.

"There were bullet (casings) just falling on my head. They were burning my forehead," Seeger said.

The gunman fired steadily except when he stopped to reload.

"Every few seconds it was just 'Boom, boom, boom,'" she said.

"He would reload and shoot and anyone who would try to leave would just get killed," she said.

Seeger said she began crawling toward an exit when she saw a girl about 14 years old, "lying lifeless on the stairs."

She saw a man with a bullet wound in his back and tried to check his pulse, but "I had to go. I was going to get shot."

"I thought it was showmanship. I didn't think it was real," she said.

___

Sylvana Guillen, 20, said when a man appeared at the front of the theater clad in dark clothing looking like a SWAT team member as Catwoman made an appearance in the movie, the audience "thought it was a joke, a hoax."

Then they heard gunshots and smelled smoke from a canister he was carrying, and Guillen knew it was real.

The gunman began walking toward the seats and firing. Guillen said she told her friend, Misha Mostashiry, "You better get ready to be shot."

Mostashiry, also 20, said they couldn't tell where the gunman was.

"All you could do is hope he didn't come for you," she said.

"We ran to the emergency exit and nothing happened. Nothing happened to us," Mostashiry said, with surprise and relief in her voice.

On their dash to the exit, they saw a man slip in the blood of a wounded woman he was trying to help.

___

Tanner Coon told the NBC "Today" show he was at the movie with a friend and his friend's 12-year-old brother when about 20 minutes into the movie the gunman appeared. Coon said that when they realized they were being shot at, they got on the floor in front of their seats.

After "a period of quiet" everyone started to run out.

He said he went to a row behind him and "slipped on some blood and landed" on a woman. He said he shook her, telling her they needed to get out, but she was unresponsive and he "presumed she was dead." He said the 12-year-old was "freaking out" and "really upset" after they escaped the theater.

___

Jaime Marshall, 23, said she had tickets to theater 9, where the gunman opened fire, but had decided before the movie to watch next door in theater 8 with friends.

She said that about 20 minutes in, as a shooting scene played out on the screen, she heard "fire cracker" sounds, and thought someone might be playing a joke. Marshall said people started leaving en masse and the alarm system started blaring. Marshall said she and her friends just sat there confused until someone ran in and told people not to go into the lobby because "someone's shooting people out there."

She said she wasn't sure if it was a prank, but the group decided to leave. Marshall said that as she made her way out of the theater, she saw a girl with a gunshot wound to her leg.

___

Moviegoer William Kent told CBS "This Morning" he was in theater 8, next door to the theater where the shooting happened.

"There was a lot going on in the soundtrack of the movie at that time. So in the beginning, I don't think people realized what was happening," he said.

Kent said he saw pieces of the wall fall out, apparently as shots came through, and the emergency alarm went off. The theater told people to leave.

"There was huge commotion to get out of the theater and when I exited, there were police with assault rifles running in."

"I went out to enjoy a movie and I ended up in a gruesome thing. I don't know how you would qualify it. I think it seems like a terrorist act."

___

Nichole Griek said her 13- and 14-year-old daughters were in the theater when they saw a man dressed in black and wearing a mask step out of the shadows at the front of the theater. They thought he was part of the movie presentation, before he threw out a canister that started smoking and opened fire.

Griek's daughters and their friends bolted from the theater, leaving behind their cellphones, shoes and other belongings. Griek's daughters were unhurt.

"You'd think you'd be able to drop your kid off at the movie theaters, but you can't," she said.

___

Chandler Brannon tells ABC's "Good Morning America" he was in the theater with his girlfriend when he saw smoke and heard popping sounds that he at first believed were fireworks.

When he realized they were gunshots, Brannon said he and his girlfriend and others ducked. He said he and his girlfriend played dead as what sounded like 50 to 70 shots were fired.

He said that because of the smoke, he didn't get a good look at the shooter but saw a silhouette of a person with a gun.

___

Jordan Crofter, 19, of Aurora, said the suspected gunman "looked like an assassin ready to go war."

Crofter was sitting on the left side of the theater and toward the front when the door swung open and a silhouette appeared in front of the street lights.

He said the shooter was calm and almost strutted in, then pulled up his rifle and started shooting, stopping only to reload — like "shooting fish in a barrel."

When he saw two gas canisters hit the ground, Crofter immediately ran out of the theater.

Crofter said he was the first one in the lobby and when the manager asked what was going on, he yelled, "Bomb."

___

Julia Nguyen, 17, said she saw something fly across the theater, which she thought, at first, was a stink bomb, and then saw a flash.

Then she saw the gunman.

"He was absolutely quiet. He didn't say a word. He just started firing rounds," said Nguyen, who ran out of theater as fast as she could with her friend, Erin Post, 15.

Post said the gunman fired round after round.

"It just kept going and going and going. Like bam after bam after bam," she said. "Between every flash you could kind of see a gas mask."

Outside the theater, they found a 16-year-old bloody and limping boy, suffering from wounds to his thigh and lower calf.

They said they got the teen into the backseat of their car and used belts to put a makeshift tourniquet to stop the bleeding from his leg. They said he kept saying he wanted to find his little sister and that he wanted to pray with them.

They prayed in the car until an ambulance could take him to the hospital.

___

Joel Wheelersburg, 27, said he went to the movie with a church group that included his brother and sister-in-law.

"The first gun scene (in the movie) is where we heard real bullet shots, real gunshots, from our right," he said.

"It sounded like special effects, and from there we saw what seemed like ash or dust from the walls. We saw the smoke coming over, and that's kind of when we knew something wasn't right."

Wheelersburg said people started scrambling to get out through exits at the front and rear of the theater. He heard someone say there was somebody with a gun.

Wheelersburg and his group got out through the lobby and then went outside.

"It was there in the parking lot that reality sunk in. There were so many lights, there was helicopters, police officers, people are literally being carried by other normal people like us," he said.

Later, the group kneeled and prayed.

___

Eric Hunter, 23, said it all started with smoke.

"There was smoke that came in. It had to be a smoke bomb because there was a significant amount of smoke that came in to the theater. Then the gunshots happened," he said.

He and his friends thought what they were hearing firecrackers that were part of the movie. So, they settled back to continue watching the movie for another 10 to 20 seconds before they heard several more shots.

"We knew something was wrong because people started getting up, moving out,"

Hunter said he and his friends made their way to an exit. When Hunter opened the door, he saw two teenage girls — one shot in the mouth and the other one crying.

Hunter said he was about to close the door when he saw the gunman, dressed in black, wearing what appeared to be a bullet proof vest, and a gas mask.

"He's coming my way so I shut the door. So I hold the door for a little bit. He's banging on the door for about 10 seconds,"

Hunter said he was afraid gunman would shoot through door, so he let it go and managed to get out of the theater.

He said he and other people went back to the theater to help people evacuate but officials were urging people to leave.

Later, Hunter said police began entering the theater, asking people to hold their hands up as they evacuated the building.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> That's fine.  I have my suspicions, too.  But I don't speak in definitives until I have seen solid evidence, unlike some other folks.  
> 
> Tell me something, is Alex Jones going to back-pedal on this and say, "hey, you know what, it turns out this guy just went nuts... it turns out he's not a bit player in the grand NWO scheme to take over the planet.  He's just a random nutjob...", if it turns out to be the case?  Nope.  He's going to fit the evidence to his narrative.
> 
> His routine is wearing thin with me.  It seems he doesn't give a $#@! about those people... he seems to care only about his narrative.


What facts in this case say that AJ should back pedal on what he has said about this case?

----------


## AGRP

> I wish all these AJers that wanted to be sent into outer space could actually be sent there. If you want to blame this on the govt. then you need some proof. All you have is speculation and wild accusations and conjecture.

----------


## pcosmar

> Tell me something, is Alex Jones going to back-pedal on this and say,


How would I know.. I don't follow A. Jones.
Though from what folks post here he seems to be on the right track more often than not.

Tell me this,, Do you have ANY proof that the MK-Ultra program actually ended??
And why would you trust people that would allow the existence of such a program?

Do you know of any prosecutions for the crimes committed?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

*Aurora authorities plan controlled explosion at James Holmess apartment* 

Police successfully bypass first booby trap trip wires , but residence still contains jars of ammunition, photographs show




Police in Aurora, Colorado have successfully dismantled a potentially lethal booby trap left at the home of suspected mass shooter James Holmes.

Holmes, who is accused of murdering 12 and injuring 58 others in an attack on a midnight cinema showing of the latest Batman movie, is said to have rigged his apartment with a trip wire that would have set off a device aimed at killing anyone anyone who entered.

"We have been successful in defeating the first threat," Sgt Cassidee Carlson said outside the home of the alleged shooter on Saturday.

She added: "This trip wire was set up to clearly detonate when someone entered that apartment. It was set up to kill that person which could have been a police officer executing a search warrant."

The police spokeswoman added: "This is some serious stuff our team is dealing with."

Photographs taken of the inside show trip wires, jars of liquids and ammunition and other objects that have been described as looking like "mortar rounds".

Police have evacuated several nearby apartment blocks in the area, a down-at-heel working class neighbourhood of cheap rentals and rundown housing.

Earlier, Sgt Cassidee she had indicated that specialists may need to conduct a controlled explosion at the apartment.

Police had feared that such a blast may have resulted in a fire taking hold. Surrounding and inside the police cordon are at least three fire trucks and other vehicles, including ambulances.

A fire truck ladder has been erected outside Holmes' building, reaching up the window of his apartment on an upper floor.

The bizarre scene has stunned local residents, a few of whom spent the morning standing outside the police tape. Blaise Stone, who has lived in the neighbourhood for decades and is an unemployed construction worker, was blunt about the situation. "It is weird and wacky," he said.

"I just hope that no else gets hurt, but its definitely strange that someone built a big bomb in the middle of here. It's only a few blocks from my house."

Stone said he knew two people who had claimed to have met Holmes, including a woman that the alleged gunman had tried to rent an apartment from.

But he added that neither had thought there was anything unusual about him.

"They didn't really think one way or the other about him. He didn't leave an impression," he said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ent-detonation

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> What facts in this case say that AJ should back pedal on what he has said about this case?


Jones has been calling this unequivocably a false flag.  Presumably, he's basing this on something someone has found inside the shooter's apartment, or on a whistle-blower, or SOMETHING other than he just wants this to be a false flag.  

AGAIN, I have my suspicions, but SUSPICIONS DO NOT EQUAL FACT.  Declarations of fact require indisputable evidence.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> How would I know.. I don't follow A. Jones.
> Though from what folks post here he seems to be on the right track more often than not.
> 
> Tell me this,, Do you have ANY proof that the MK-Ultra program actually ended??
> And why would you trust people that would allow the existence of such a program?
> 
> Do you know of any prosecutions for the crimes committed?


None of this has anything to do with the question at hand, at the moment.  That's the thing.  You want to conjecture that Holmes was a MK-ULTRA product?  PROVE IT.  Seriously.  I'm not opposed to the theory.

----------


## pcosmar

Curious...
Do you really trust these folks with an investigation?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-bank-robber/

----------


## Zippyjuan

The "down-at-heel working class neighbourhood of cheap rentals and rundown housing" is student housing close to the University of Colorado Denver medical school he was attending.

----------


## donnay

> Even if a few people snuck in, I agree, it's not worth the equipment cost.  I was addressing donnay's earlier article that purports to prove the shooter could not have come in through the back door because the doors have alarms and cameras.


Let me clarify:  That is not what I was trying to say.  I was saying, the alleged gunman could not have burst through a emergency exit door that was sealed.  There are no handles on the door for him to pull one.  It definitely appears that the door was not shut secure.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Jones has been calling this unequivocably a false flag.  Presumably, he's basing this on something someone has found inside the shooter's apartment, or on a whistle-blower, or SOMETHING other than he just wants this to be a false flag.  
> 
> AGAIN, I have my suspicions, but SUSPICIONS DO NOT EQUAL FACT.  Declarations of fact require indisputable evidence.


]

Jones calls almost everything a "false flag".  He doesn't need any real evidence it actually is one.

----------


## pcosmar

> None of this has anything to do with the question at hand, at the moment.  That's the thing.  You want to conjecture that Holmes was a MK-ULTRA product?  PROVE IT.  Seriously.  I'm not opposed to the theory.


I am interested in knowing if he is another one added to the list,,,
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?sort=date

I suspect so. and that he had a handler..
I have yet to see a case of mass shooting that has not.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Curious...
> Do you really trust these folks with an investigation?
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-bank-robber/


No. 

That's not evidence of a false flag, however.

----------


## AuH20

This is an interesting read in light of this recent incident:

http://constitutionalsheriffs.ning.c...rds-judge-roll




> A key quote from Wayne Madsen’s report follows:
> 
> “WMR has been told that in 2009, information about the CIA/Homeland Security/Napolitano smuggling operation came to the attention of three individuals, two members of Congress and a federal judge. The three were Arizona Democratic Representatives Giffords, Republican Representative Mike Conaway from west Texas, and Judge Roll. Giffords and Roll were working together on investigating the extent of the clandestine weapons and drugs smuggling operation and held some joint meetings with informants, one in north Phoenix, in 2009.
> 
> Information on the investigation and informants was strictly limited to only a few trusted staffers and clerks for Giffords and Roll. In addition, Conaway was also being briefed by informants on the smuggling operation but since the death of Roll and the severe mental and physical incapacitation of Giffords from the shooting carried out by Jared Lee Loughner, said to be an MK-ULTRA-like trained assassin, like Sirhan  Sirhan  he has gone silent in fear for his own safety.





> Loughner’s was declared mentally incompetent and there are reports, including one in Slate Magazine, that the U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri, where Loughner is being held, pending a determination of his mental fitness to stand trial, is being administered psychotropic drugs.
> 
> In addition to receiving drugs to fund its off-the-books operations, the CIA weapons smuggling program is designed to arm the two main Mexican cartels — Sinaloa and Los Zetas — in order to destabilize Mexico.


Close friend stated that Loughner experienced a radical transformation:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jared-...8#.UAtWPKNZ98E

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> I am interested in knowing if he is another one added to the list,,,
> http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?sort=date
> 
> I suspect so. and that he had a handler..
> I have yet to see a case of mass shooting that has not.


Yeah, I have my suspicions, too.  It was 36 hours ago.  I don't think anyone has any definitive evidence yet, one way or another.  Yet some folks have already made definitive declarations.

----------


## puppetmaster

> It is facinating (and in some cases scary) to see how people are interpreting a tragic event.  It is usually framed based on how you see the world. First it was that it was some sort of government backed conspiracy- because you (a generic "you"- not any specific person) see the government somehow behind every bad thing which happens. Isolated incedents become part of some grand plan against you.  Now it is welfare moms or bums out to the theater.  Like they were doing something bad instead of trying to enjoy a night out. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess working people don't go to movies?


Actually it was just a question.....
You spin this like a pro.
Moms...did I say moms? No I did not.

But I do feel that loud movies like this are not proper for very young children. IE three months old.

I always wonder when I see adults out wandering with infants at 2am. I do see this more than usual.

----------


## tttppp

> Let me clarify:  That is not what I was trying to say.  I was saying, the alleged gunman could not have burst through a emergency exit door that was sealed.  There are no handles on the door for him to pull one.  It definitely appears that the door was not shut secure.


Thats pretty much obvious. Either he propped it up from an earlier showing, or he had someone help him. Those are the logical ways to open those doors.

----------


## pcosmar

> Yeah, I have my suspicions, too.  It was 36 hours ago.  I don't think anyone has any definitive evidence yet, one way or another.  Yet some folks have already made definitive declarations.


definitive declarations?
Or voiced opinions and theories contrary to media propaganda?

I heard this $#@! first on Faux Snooze. My wife saw something online and turned on the news..
A staged event was my very first thought.

I don't listen to Alex Jones,,and don't get news there, but from what is posted here,, he came to the same conclusion.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> definitive declarations?
> Or voiced opinions and theories contrary to media propaganda?
> 
> I heard this $#@! first on Faux Snooze. My wife saw something online and turned on the news..
> A staged event was my very first thought.
> 
> I don't listen to Alex Jones,,and don't get news there, but from what is posted here,, he came to the same conclusion.


YES.  DEFINITIVE DECLARATIONS.  AS IN PEOPLE SAYING, "THIS WAS DEFINITELY A #FALSEFLAG / #INSIDEJOB / #BLACKOP."  

I AM a Jones listener... at this point, what else is he going to say?  No matter what comes out about this guy, in Jones' narrative, he will always be a NWO patsy.  I'll eat my shoe if, in light of evidence, Alex comes out and says he dropped the ball on this one.  

Again, his routine is wearing thin.  Maybe I'm ashamed it took me this long, but his definitive declaration on this one - a day and a half after the fact - some of the bodies weren't even cold yet - seals it.

There's no one left on the radio I can listen to... Mike Church maybe, but he's just enough of a statist to annoy me from time to time, too.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Thats pretty much obvious. Either he propped it up from an earlier showing, or he had someone help him. Those are the logical ways to open those doors.


They said he purchased a ticket for the movie and went in and sat down. About ten minutes into the film, he got up and went out the exit and propped it open with a bag or something and came back several minutes later fully armed.

----------


## donnay

> Thats pretty much obvious. Either he propped it up from an earlier showing, or he had someone help him. Those are the logical ways to open those doors.


That can pose potential liability for the theater then.  My sister was an usher in a AMC theater and they were required, by management, to check theaters in-between showings, for personal belongings left and to make sure exit doors, that the last moviegoers went out through, are secure.

----------


## tttppp

> They said he purchased a ticket for the movie and went in and sat down. About ten minutes into the film, he got up and went out the exit and propped it open with a bag or something and came back several minutes later fully armed.


Thats a smart idea. I didn't think of that. The only thing that really could have stopped that would be an alarm or possibly cameras (depending how long he took).

----------


## pcosmar

> YES.  DEFINITIVE DECLARATIONS.  AS IN PEOPLE SAYING, "THIS WAS DEFINITELY A #FALSEFLAG / #INSIDEJOB / #BLACKOP."  
> 
> I AM a Jones listener... at this point, what else is he going to say?  No matter what comes out about this guy, in Jones' narrative, he will always be a NWO patsy.  I'll eat my shoe if, in light of evidence, Alex comes out and says he dropped the ball on this one.  
> 
> Again, his routine is wearing thin.  Maybe I'm ashamed it took me this long, but his definitive declaration on this one - a day and a half after the fact - some of the bodies weren't even cold yet - seals it.
> 
> There's no one left on the radio I can listen to... Mike Church maybe, but he's just enough of a statist to annoy me from time to time, too.


Haven't listened to him,, but I wouldn't say he "Dropped the Ball".
It does look very much like a staged event to me.

Another mind controlled patsy to further an agenda.

And now it looks very much like they want to destroy evidence,,by blowing up his home.
More stupid $#@!.

Yes,, my distrust runs deep. Just as trust is earned,, distrust is earned.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Haven't listened to him,, but I wouldn't say he "Dropped the Ball".
> It does look very much like a staged event to me.
> 
> Another mind controlled patsy to further an agenda.
> 
> And now it looks very much like they want to destroy evidence,,by blowing up his home.
> More stupid $#@!.
> 
> Yes,, my distrust runs deep. Just as trust is earned,, distrust is earned.


Looks =/= FACT.  

AGAIN - PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD, ALONG WITH JONES HAVE DECLARED THIS TO BE A (TAKE YOUR PICK) INSIDE JOB/FALSE FLAG/BLACK OP.  UNEQUIVOCABLY.

APPEARANCES DO NOT EQUAL FACTS.  NO ONE - NOT EVEN THE PO PO HAVE CONDUCTED AN INVESTIGATION AT THIS POINT.

----------


## Nickels

> YES.  DEFINITIVE DECLARATIONS.  AS IN PEOPLE SAYING, "THIS WAS DEFINITELY A #FALSEFLAG / #INSIDEJOB / #BLACKOP."  
> 
> I AM a Jones listener... at this point, what else is he going to say?  No matter what comes out about this guy, in Jones' narrative, he will always be a NWO patsy.  I'll eat my shoe if, in light of evidence, Alex comes out and says he dropped the ball on this one.  
> 
> Again, his routine is wearing thin.  Maybe I'm ashamed it took me this long, but his definitive declaration on this one - a day and a half after the fact - some of the bodies weren't even cold yet - seals it.
> 
> There's no one left on the radio I can listen to... Mike Church maybe, but he's just enough of a statist to annoy me from time to time, too.


So you basically believe only the government is allowed to rush their agenda driven conspiracy and Alex jones can't lie or jump to conclusions as an advance warning?

----------


## tttppp

> That can pose potential liability for the theater then.  My sister was an usher in a AMC theater and they were required, by management, to check theaters in-between showings, for personal belongings left and to make sure exit doors, that the last moviegoers went out through, are secure.


Thats true. But movie theater management is generally pathetic, and don't enforce policies from the main office. For example, my theater was required to do at least one theater check per showing, however, when other managers were on, there were days were they did zero theater checks even though they had more than enough staff. The way it should be done is for the cleaning staff to check the theater when cleaning it and to do at least one theater check every half hour.

I worked at Loews Theaters, which is now AMC Theaters.

----------


## cajuncocoa

*Aurora shooting suspect James Holmes jailed in solitary: All the inmates were talking about killing him* 
_'He was spitting at the door and spitting at the guards,' a just-released inmate told the Daily News. 'He's spitting at everything. Dude was acting crazy.'_




> MOVIE MASSACRE suspect James Holmes remained unapologetic and irrational Saturday in  a Colorado jail where his life was at risk from inmates bent on revenge.
> 
> Holmes, held under suicide watch in solitary confinement, remained in his murderous Joker persona after arriving at the Arapahoe Detention Center, a jailhouse worker told the Daily News.
> 
> Lets just say he hasnt shown any remorse, the employee said. He thinks hes acting in a movie.




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz21JQ7qLZL

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> So you basically believe only the government is allowed to rush their agenda driven conspiracy and Alex jones can't lie or jump to conclusions as an advance warning?


Oh yeah, definitely.  Being an anarcho-capitalist, I definitely believe the government everytime they say something.  

Is this really your defense of Jones and his gang declaring this to be a psy-op (whatever)?  That because the government rushes out an explanation, it's okay for Jones to do the same?

AGAIN - IT HAS BEEN A DAY AND A HALF.  WHO AT THIS POINT HAS ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER WHAT HAPPENED??

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Thats a smart idea. I didn't think of that. The only thing that really could have stopped that would be an alarm or possibly cameras (depending how long he took).


See last post page #47. http://enews.earthlink.net/article/t...7-81ce461c1b54



> After buying a ticket to the movie, Holmes went into the theater and propped open an exit door several minutes into the film, a federal law enforcement official said. The suspect then returned in protective gear and with high-powered weapons and opened fire, shooting scores of people and picking off victims who tried to flee, officials said.

----------


## tttppp

> See last post page #47. http://enews.earthlink.net/article/t...7-81ce461c1b54


How long did he have the door propped open before he returned?

----------


## donnay

> Oh yeah, definitely.  Being an anarcho-capitalist, I definitely believe the government everytime they say something.  
> 
> Is this really your defense of Jones and his gang declaring this to be a psy-op (whatever)?  That because the government rushes out an explanation, it's okay for Jones to do the same?
> 
> AGAIN - IT HAS BEEN A DAY AND A HALF.  WHO AT THIS POINT HAS ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER WHAT HAPPENED??



Well one thing I know we are less than two weeks away from Obama signing us up to the UN gun ban treaty.  We know how much he thinks of the second amendment and the rights of the sovereign citizens of American under the constitution.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Well one thing I know we are less than two weeks away from Obama signing us up to the UN gun ban treaty.  We know how much he thinks of the second amendment and the rights of the sovereign citizens of American under the constitution.


Agreed 100%.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> It's really sad that all these folks went to watch a bunch of Hollywood socialists in front of a camera pretending to be someone that they are not and this had to happen to them. I hope they stay away from statists next time and focus more on reality instead of fiction....they'll be safer attending Ron Paul meetups.


I'm guessing you don't ever go to the movies or watch movies in general... is that correct?

----------


## Zippyjuan

> How long did he have the door propped open before he returned?


Sounds like about ten minutes- said he went out about ten minutes into the film and the shooting started about 20 minutes in. 



> Police said 24-year-old James Holmes. walked into a movie theater and *opened fire about 20 minutes into the movie*.  Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said 11 of the 58 people injured in the attack remain in critical condition.  Twelve people were killed.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ater-shooting/

Not sure if it is true or not but that link has a picture of him with his "Joker" red hair at it.

----------


## mport1

> Jones has been calling this unequivocably a false flag.  Presumably, he's basing this on something someone has found inside the shooter's apartment, or on a whistle-blower, or SOMETHING other than he just wants this to be a false flag.  
> 
> AGAIN, I have my suspicions, but SUSPICIONS DO NOT EQUAL FACT.  Declarations of fact require indisputable evidence.


Of course Jones and Infowars want this to be a false flag or conspiracy of some kind.  They do that will almost every major event that occurs.  

As soon as I heard about this news I knew if I went to the front page of Infowars I'd see those stories popping up.  Sure enough, I was right.

----------


## Nickels

> A staged event was my very first thought.
> 
> I don't listen to Alex Jones,,and don't get news there, but from what is posted here,, he came to the same conclusion.


I can't be wrong on my first thought, and if Alex Jones and I agree, we must both be right.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> I can't be wrong on my first thought, and if Alex Jones and I agree, we must both be right.


Well see, there's your problem - right there.

----------


## donnay

*Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged*

Mike Adams
*Natural News*
July 21, 2012

James Holmes, the Aurora, Colorado shooter who reportedly opened fire at a Batman movie premiere, was a medical student at the University of Colorado, pursuing a PhD in neuroscience, reports ABC News. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...14-peop…)

As part of the attack, Holmes painted his hair red and referred to himself as “The Joker,” one of the arch enemies in the DC Comics-inspired Batman movie series. (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ado-the…)

According to news reports, this sudden violent rampage was completely out of character for James Holmes, who was described as “shy.”

The New York Times is now reporting:
Billy Kromka, a pre-med student at the University of Colorado, Boulder, worked with Mr. Holmes for three months last summer as a research assistant in a lab of at the Anschutz Medical Campus. Mr. Kromka said he was surprised to learn Mr. Holmes was the shooting suspect. “It was just shocking, because there was no way I thought he could have the capacity to do commit an atrocity like this,” he said. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us...ml?page…)

“He spent much of his time immersed in the computer, often participating in role-playing online games…”

There is already conjecture that James Holmes may have been involved in mind-altering neuroscience research and ended up becoming involved at a depth he never anticipated. His actions clearly show a strange detachment from reality, indicating he was not in his right mind. That can only typically be accomplished through drugs, hypnosis or trauma (and sometimes all three).

His behavior doesn’t add up

    A d v e r t i s e m e n t

His behavior already reveals stark inconsistencies that question the mainstream explanation of events. For example, he opened fire on innocent people but then calmly surrendered to police without resistance. This is not consistent with the idea of “killing everyone.”

Furthermore, he then admitted to police that his apartment was booby-trapped with explosives. If you were really an evil-minded Joker trying to kill people (including cops), why would you warn them about the booby trap in advance? It doesn’t add up.

“Holmes was taken into custody shortly after the shooting, police said, adding he didn’t resist when he was arrested,” reports a local CBS news affiliate (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ado-the…).

“After his arrest, Holmes told police about ‘possible explosives in his residence,’ Oates said. When police searched his apartment, they discovered it was booby-trapped and evacuated surrounding buildings, police said. Oates said bomb technicians are determining how to disarm flammable or explosive material in the third-floor apartment. He said police could be there some time.”

None of this checks out. If you’re a killer bent on causing mayhem, why tell the police about your surprise bomb waiting for them back at your apartment?

Holmes was clearly provided with exotic gear

Continuing from CBS:

“He said pictures from inside the apartment are fairly disturbing and the devices look to be sophisticated, adding the booby-traps were ‘something I’ve never seen.’ One rifle, two handguns, a knife, a bullet proof vest, a ballistic helmet, a gas device, a gas mask, military SWAT clothing and unidentified explosives were also found in Holmes’ car, a law enforcement source told CBS News. Oates said Holmes wore a gas mask, a ballistic helmet and vest as well as leg, groin and throat protectors during the shooting.”

In other words, this guy was equipped with exotic gear by someone with connections to military equipment. SWAT clothing, explosives, complex booby-traps… c’mon, this isn’t a “lone gunman.” This is somebody who was selected for a mission, given equipment to carry it out, then somehow brainwashed into getting it done.

“Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said Holmes’ apartment is booby-trapped with a ‘sophisticated’ maze of flammable devices. It could take hours or days for authorities to disarm it,” reports Yahoo News (http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/loo...phd-stu…).

This is not your run-of-the-mill crime of passion. It was a carefully planned, heavily funded and technically advanced attack. Who might be behind all this? The FBI, of course, which has a long history of setting up and staging similar attacks, then stopping them right before they happen. See four documented stories on these facts:

http://www.naturalnews.com/035849_do...plots_FBI.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/034325_FB...ror_plots.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/033751_FBI_terrorism.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/035757_FB...alse_flag.html

As you soak all this in, remember that the FBI had admitted to setting up terror plots, providing the weapons and gear, staging the location of the bombings and even driving the vehicles to pull it off! This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s been admitted by the FBI right out in the open. Even the New York Times openly reports all this in stories like this one:

NYT: Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/op...ts-help…)

THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years — or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts. But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. …the F.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of “inert material,” harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to make the van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving…

Mystery man Holmes has no background

On top of all this, Holmes apparently has no background. “He’s not on anybody’s radar screen — nothing,” said a peace officer in a NYT article. “This guy is somewhat of an enigma. Nobody knows anything about him.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us...-shooting.html)

Mr. Holmes’s only criminal history is a traffic summons, the authorities said. He earned a bachelor’s degree with honors in neuroscience in 2010 from the University of California, Riverside, and was a graduate student in neurosciences at the University of Colorado at Denver’s Anschutz Medical Campus… He was currently collecting unemployment…

Question: How does an unemployed medical student afford $20,000 in weapons gear?

If you start to look at the really big picture here, the obvious question arises: How does an unemployed medical student afford all the complex weapons gear, bomb-making gear, “flammable” booby trap devices, ammunition, multiple magazines, bullet-proof vest, groin protection, ballistic helmet, SWAT uniform and all the rest of it?

A decent AR-15 rifle costs $1,000 or more all by itself. The shotgun and handgun might run another $800 total. Spare mags, sights, slings, and so on will run you at least another $1,000 across three firearms. The bullet-proof vest is easily another $800, and the cost of the bomb-making gear is anybody’s guess. With all the specialty body gear, ammunition, booby-trap devices and more, I’m guessing this is at least $20,000 in weapons and tactical gear, much of which is very difficult for civilians to get in the first place.

The mere manufacture of an explosive booby-trap device is, all by itself, a felony crime by the way. And remember: “Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said Holmes’ apartment is booby-trapped with a ‘sophisticated’ maze of flammable devices. It could take hours or days for authorities to disarm it,” reported Yahoo News (http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/loo...phd-stu…).

Question: Where does an unemployed, introverted medical school student get the training to deploy sophisticated booby traps, tactical body armor, weapons systems and more? Certainly not in graduate school!

All this leads to an obvious third party influence over all this. Someone else taught this guy these skills and funded the acquisition of the equipment.

Staged just in time for a vote on the UN small arms treaty?

More and more, this shooting is looking like a deliberate plot staged by the government itself much like Operation Fast and Furious pulled off by the ATF (http://www.naturalnews.com/032934_AT..._firearms.html) which helped smuggle tens of thousands of guns into Mexico for the purpose of causing “gun violence” in the USA, then blaming the Second Amendment for it.

All this looks like James Holmes completed a “mission” and then calmly ended that mission by surrendering to police and admitting everything. The mission, as we are now learning, was to cause as much terror and mayhem as possible, then to have that multiplied by the national media at exactly the right time leading up the UN vote next week on a global small arms treaty that could result in gun confiscation across America. (http://lewrockwell.com/eddlem/eddlem61.1.html)

Even Forbes.com wrote about this quite extensively, warning readers about the coming gun confiscation effort related to the UN treaty. The story was authored by Larry Bell (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...-should…) and says the UN treaty could “override our national sovereignty, and in the process, provide license for the federal government to assert preemptive powers over state regulatory powers guaranteed by the Tenth Amendment in addition to our Second Amendment rights.”

In other words, this has all the signs of Fast & Furious, Episode II. I wouldn’t be surprised to discover someone in Washington was behind it all. After all, there’s no quicker way to disarm a nation and take total control over the population than to stage violence, blame it on firearms, then call for leaders to “do something!” Such calls inevitably end up resulting in gun confiscation, and it’s never too long after that before government genocide really kicks in like we saw with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and other tyrants.

Governments routinely murder millions

Here’s a short list of government mass murder carried out throughout history, almost always immediately following the disarmament of the public (and usually involving staged false flag events to justify the disarmament):

50+ million dead: Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)
12+ million dead: Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) – concentration camps, civilian deaths and dead Russian POWs
8+ million dead: Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)
6+ million dead: Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)
5+ million dead: Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)
2+ million dead: Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-22)
1.7 million dead: Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)
1.6 million dead: Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)
1.5 million dead: Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)
1 million dead: Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)
900,000 dead: Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)
800,000 dead: Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)
See more at:
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Death by government:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP1.HTM
http://www.infowars.com/democide-gov...llion-i…

A “monopoly of force” in government is far more dangerous than a crazed lone shooter

So yes, James Holmes and other crazed shooters kill a number of people each year in random acts of violence. It’s horrifying and wrong, but it’s nothing compared to the millions of lives that governments tend to destroy when they gain total power over the populace.

The most dangerous thing in the world, it turns out, is not a crazy person with a rifle; it’s a government with a “monopoly of force” over the entire population. And that’s exactly what the UN spells out as its goal for the world: Stripping all power from individual citizens and handing “monopolies of force” to the governments of the world, shoring up their positions as the only “legitimate” power on the planet.

See this document entitled, “Geneva Centre for the Democratic Control of Armed Forces (DCAF)” policy paper No. 24:
http://www.naturalnews.com/files/Rev...-on-the…

As this document reveals, a table entitled “Governance solutions for reasserting the state monopoly on the use of force” lists the options available to governments to re-establish “monopolies of force” against their own people:

• (Re-)establish state monopoly
- Ownership of WMDs
- Safety Inspectorates

• Prohibit business activity
- Justice and Execution
- Deadly Force?

• Regulate/limit activities
- Private defense/security services
- Control of financial transfers
- Export controls
- Transport and infrastructure safety
- Environmental impact

Interestingly, that document also describes “terrorism” in a way that perfectly matches the Aurora, Colorado “Batman” movie theater shooter:

Terrorists aim to spread panic and fear in societies in order to achieve political goals, be they based on left- or right-wing, social-revolutionary, nationalistic or religious ideologies. They are organized in a clandestine way, most often in small groups and cells… Typical tactical means include kidnapping, hostage-taking, sabotage, murder, suicide attacks, vehicle bombs and improvised explosive devices.

A global monopoly of force

This document is a goldmine of information about the globalist agenda to disarm and enslave the population. Check out page 28, which reads:

The legitimate monopoly of force should not be limited to the nation-state but should be based on the local, national, regional and the global levels.

Global Security Governance and the Monopoly of Force

At the global level no monopoly of violence exists. The UN Security Council already has a monopoly power to authorize the use of force at the global level, although the UN was never given the necessary means to exercise this authority, such as the capacity to implement sanctions, a police force and armed forces…

This deficiency in global governance acts as a bottleneck and a barrier to the creation of the democratically legitimized monopoly of violence that is globally required.

This story gets deep, doesn’t it? Watch for more analysis here at NaturalNews.com, where we still fight for liberty and justice in a world that’s increasingly becoming enslaved.

----------


## Nickels

> Well see, there's your problem - right there.


Except it's not my problem, I was rephrasing pcosmar's post (I would agree with you he has a problem if this is what he believes). sorry about the misunderstanding ,I know it's hard to keep track of who's the Jones defender.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

I find it interesting that purveyors of government mass murder conspiracy theories are typically minarchists.

Hey - let me know when you find the sorcerer's stone, okay?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> An excerpt from and article I wrote:
> 
> Emma Goos told *CNN*, [She] saw a man come through the exit door at the front of the theater, wearing a gas mask and body armor and wielding a gun.   The report goes on to say, It was a dark theater, playing a movie that includes gunshots, in the middle of the night. So when a gunman burst through an exit door, threw a gas can into the crowd and began shooting, many inside the Aurora, Colorado, theater didnt realize what was happening.
> 
> How do you burst into a door that opens from the inside out?  Some movie theaters even have motion detectors and cameras turned to their doors so ushers would know that someone may try to open it to sneak a non-ticket holder in.  Upon searching for some answers, I came across DIY Blog that gives tips on how to sneak into a movie theater, which I found interesting:
> 
> _How to Sneak Into a Movie  Backdoor
> Sneaking in the back door or through a theater exit Listen carefully to this one, THERE ARE CAMERAS at the back doors and ALARMS on the theater exits. It is far easier to sneak in the front then it is through the back. DO NOT SNEAK THROUGH THE BACK DOOR_


Very interesting.  Why didn't the alarm go off?  I'm assuming there was one, which this article seems to be saying there should be.

----------


## Nickels

> I find it interesting that purveyors of government mass murder conspiracy theories are typically minarchists.
> 
> Hey - let me know when you find the sorcerer's stone, okay?


what's surprising about that? you think pro-government people would make up conspiracy theories? How would that sound ? "Oh look, people are too free, see what crime they did, we need more government!"?

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> what's surprising about that? you think pro-government people would make up conspiracy theories? How would that sound ? "Oh look, people are too free, see what crime they did, we need more government!"?


Minarchists _are_ pro-government people.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Very interesting.  Why didn't the alarm go off?  I'm assuming there was one, which this article seems to be saying there should be.


There were just a couple of pages of posts, including some from people who worked at theaters, and some that use the exits, that point out many theaters do not have alarms at all.

----------


## Zippyjuan

> Very interesting.  Why didn't the alarm go off?  I'm assuming there was one, which this article seems to be saying there should be.


According to posts earlier in the thread, most theaters don't have cameras or alarms on the exit doors.

(MelissaWV Beat me by seconds!)

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> When I worked at the movie theater, we used to put a lead block (stage weight) between the doors when we went out so we could get back in.


You had solid blocks of lead?

----------


## Zippyjuan

Some theaters use lead weights for counterbalancing items which may be flown from the ceiling during a show.  Makes them easier to raise and lower.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> *Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged*
> 
> Mike Adams
> *Natural News*
> July 21, 2012
> 
> James Holmes, the Aurora, Colorado shooter who reportedly opened fire at a Batman movie premiere, was a medical student at the University of Colorado, pursuing a PhD in neuroscience, reports ABC News. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...eater-14-peop)
> 
> As part of the attack, Holmes painted his hair red and referred to himself as The Joker, one of the arch enemies in the DC Comics-inspired Batman movie series. (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...-colorado-the)
> ...


Bump so more people can familiarize themselves with what's going on in this case.

----------


## Zippyjuan

Natural News over-hypes as bad as Alex Jones does.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

Yeah, and I sincerely hope people understand how to read articles like that.

----------


## AuH20

> _A decent AR-15 rifle costs $1,000 or more all by itself. The shotgun and handgun might run another $800 total. Spare mags, sights, slings, and so on will run you at least another $1,000 across three firearms. The bullet-proof vest is easily another $800, and the cost of the bomb-making gear is anybody’s guess. With all the specialty body gear, ammunition, booby-trap devices and more, I’m guessing this is at least $20,000 in weapons and tactical gear, much of which is very difficult for civilians to get in the first place._
> 
> Bump so more people can familiarize themselves with what's going on in this case.


A high end Colt AR-15 can cost you close to 2000 dollars. It's the closest to military specifications you can buy on the civilian side, though Bravo Company makes a quality product as well. With that said, I have no idea what model Holmes bought.

----------


## tttppp

> According to posts earlier in the thread, most theaters don't have cameras or alarms on the exit doors.
> 
> (MelissaWV Beat me by seconds!)


The reason is nobody ever breaks in through the exits. I worked at a theater for 2.5 years and nobody was ever spotted sneaking in through the exits. Nobody was ever spotted propping up a door like this guy did.

----------


## Dr.3D

> You had solid blocks of lead?





> Some theaters use lead weights for counterbalancing items which may be flown from the ceiling during a show.  Makes them easier to raise and lower.


Exactly!  This theater was also used for other things besides movies.   The stage was 60 feet high and counterbalances were used to drop in the 30 foot high backdrops and raise them from one act to another.   It was built back in the 20's.

----------


## tttppp

> Sounds like about ten minutes- said he went out about ten minutes into the film and the shooting started about 20 minutes in. 
> 
> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ater-shooting/
> 
> Not sure if it is true or not but that link has a picture of him with his "Joker" red hair at it.


If thats the case, then alarms or a camera would have prevented this. However, this guy could have still gotten around that if he had a second person helping him, or just went through the front.

----------


## mport1

> *Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged*
> 
> Mike Adams
> *Natural News*
> July 21, 2012
> 
> James Holmes, the Aurora, Colorado shooter who reportedly opened fire at a Batman movie premiere, was a medical student at the University of Colorado, pursuing a PhD in neuroscience, reports ABC News. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooti...14-peop…)...


Wow, this might be one of the biggest loads of garbage I've ever read.  I hope people don't actually buy into that.

It's absurd how much these conspiracy guys will grasp at straws, providing no solid evidence, just so they can craft some elaborate conspiracy that fits their vision of the way the world works.

----------


## donnay

> Very interesting.  Why didn't the alarm go off?  I'm assuming there was one, which this article seems to be saying there should be.


I was trying to find fire marshal codes for this particular theater.  However, I came across this blogger's site talking about the same thing.

http://elizabethmcclung.blogspot.com...g-why-did.html 

Fire Exits are meant to do just that, help people exit in case of fire. At the start of every shift in a cinema, I or someone would have to radio to the central office that I was doing a ‘fire exit’ check. The alarm which would send the fire department was turned off, and I would check every single door at the start of the day, and again at the end of the day to make sure they were not blocked, and the walkway out was not blocked in any way. Then the alarm is turned back on. Where I worked there was a delay, to allow for a visual check before the signal went to the fire department.

Why?

Because with 12, or with Century Aurora, CO Cinemark 16 screens, there is no way to be able to tell if there is a fire, or other emergency simply by the working staff seeing it in time (staff are taking tickets, seating, cleaning screens, selling popcorn, selling tickets, cleaning toilets, etc). The opening of a fire door during a film is a signal to check out why, and quickly. So with Associated Press saying that a Federal Law Enforcement Person told them James Holmes propped open a emergency exit side door during the movie, donned his protective gear and returned to the cinema screen to open fire with guns on the crowd. Again, why when the alarm went off in the office was no one sent to check on this fire door.

Yes, during the five years I worked at the multiplex/cineplex there were maybe hundreds of false alarms to check, over a dozen full evacuations and not one emergency involving loss of life. But that is the job. You check because without checking, and ensuring the door is tight, and that it can swing open for exit easily but cannot be opened the other direction, you are not ready for when trouble comes.

Why does the door only open one way? And why are they inaccessible from the other side?

You may think that the reason is to stop people sneaking in, but no, it is to prevent the spread of fire and loss of life. The reason doors only open one way is that if most movie customers can’t find the bathroom sign when they are looking for it, imagine how hard it is to figure out where to go during an emergency. The last thing needed is to have even ONE person re-entering a cinema that is on fire (and you know they would...because they forgot their cell phone). That is also why each staff person is assigned a screen to evacuate, or when short staffed, two small screens (yes, and bathrooms). And yes, I did evacuate screens because the alarm had gone off. Once a smoker illegally smoked and set off the alarm for the largest screen during Lord of the Rings. And it was raining outside. So having 500+ people want to lynch you for ruining their night out watching Lord of the Rings is part of the job. And no one goes back in, no one goes past you, and no one goes out the front, to make sure people aren’t trampled (enough people will exit the bathrooms or lines for films to end up with a group of people coming out the front anyway).

The building is emptied during an evacuation, all screens, not just the one where the alarm went off. The Fire Department has already been automatically notified and will check the building. They and the managers will have the keys to the evacuation doors. Once cleared, people reenter, after a short delay the movies resume. If it is not cleared, emergency officials take over.

So, the days of sneaking into a cinema, then opening the fire door and sneaking in your friends SHOULD have disappeared decades ago. Because a fire door which can be opened, or accessed or tampered with from the other side is not a safe exit. And creates an unsafe building.

So when news reports say that James put on armour and guns and prepared to shoot people with the fire door propped open for up to 30 minutes, something is VERY WRONG. What happened Cinemark?

----------


## donnay

*double post*

----------


## JK/SEA

So, anyone can go to Walmart and buy SWAT gear, tear gas grenades, and high end AR-15's?...be nice to know the level of sophistication of those booby traps...

----------


## Zippyjuan

> A high end Colt AR-15 can cost you close to 2000 dollars. It's the closest to military specifications you can buy on the civilian side, though Bravo Company makes a quality product as well. With that said, I have no idea what model Holmes bought.


They posted the name of the stores he got his weapons from and according to one report:

http://www.theithacajournal.com/arti...sey=nav%7Chead



> All the gear -- from military-grade smoke canisters to flak jackets -- was purchased legally at local sporting good stores or over the Internet, Aurora police said. Police said James Holmes, 24, opened fire in a crowded movie theater during a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises, killing 12 people and injuring 58. On Saturday, authorities were attempting to enter the suspects booby-trapped apartment.
> 
> A check of Internet shopping sites shows how easily -- and quickly -- Holmes could have obtained the material used in one of the deadliest mass shootings in recent U.S. history:
> 
> - The guns: The AR-15 assault rifle Holmes used inside the theater, Aurora police said, and a .40-caliber Glock handgun were purchased at local Gander Mountain sporting good stores. The assault rifle could be purchased for $729 from Gander Mountain, and a similar Glock handgun runs $600, according to the stores website. A background check of the buyer is required, but Colorado requires no waiting period before purchase.
> 
> The Remington 12-gauge shotgun (retail price: $319) and another Glock handgun ($600) were bought at a Bass Pro Shop in Denver, police said. Authorities said all guns were purchased legally and within the past 60 days.
> 
> Colorado law allows a person to carry a firearm in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded, if its use is for the lawful protection of the person or another person or property, according to the Colorado State Police website. Colorado law also allows a person to possess a handgun in a dwelling, place of business or automobile.
> ...





> Total cost of ammo: $2,870
> 
> - The body gear: A ProMax bulletproof vest, Level III-A -- a top protection level -- is available on sites such as eBay or bulletproofme.com for $560. Bulletproofme.com states on its website that it sells only to law-abiding adults but leaves it up to buyers to certify they dont have a criminal record.
> 
> The Kevlar helmet and neck and groin protectors police said Holmes wore during the shooting also are available on bulletproofme.com. Gas mask and military-grade tear gas, such as the one the suspect used inside the theater, can be found on various sites, including keepshooting.com and approvedgasmasks.com. There are no restrictions on their purchases.
> 
> Total cost of body gear: $970.
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## dannno

Oh wow, he's from Rancho Skinnypenis.

----------


## Weston White

> TSA agents and body scanners at movie theaters would have prevented this.


To date, the TSA has yet to have prevented one single "terror" attack on American soil; however, building the theater without "backdoors" surely would have.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> To date, the TSA has yet to have prevented one single "terror" attack on American soil; however, building the theater without "backdoors" surely would have.


I get your point about the TSA, but the theater backdoors are there for easy escape in case of fire.

----------


## tttppp

> I was trying to find fire marshal codes for this particular theater.  However, I came across this blogger's site talking about the same thing.
> 
> http://elizabethmcclung.blogspot.com...g-why-did.html 
> 
> 
> So when news reports say that James put on armour and guns and prepared to shoot people with the fire door propped open for up to 30 minutes, something is VERY WRONG. What happened Cinemark?


If he had the door propped up for over 30 minutes, I'm sure there will be some lawsuits.

----------


## RickyJ

// Sorry, wrong topic

----------


## Weston White

> I get your point about the TSA, but the theater backdoors are there for easy escape in case of fire.


And apparently to let in raging lunatics without any security overview; meanwhile places like Walmart can eye every single thing you touch while in their store.

Although, I suppose the escape doors could stay in place of a "well armed audience".

----------


## anaconda

What was the movie, out of curiosity?


Update: Batman, I see. Figures...

----------


## Roxi

> Actually it was just a question.....
> You spin this like a pro.
> Moms...did I say moms? No I did not.
> 
> But I do feel that loud movies like this are not proper for very young children. IE three months old.
> 
> I always wonder when I see adults out wandering with infants at 2am. I do see this more than usual.


Why? Because it doesn't fit into what society thinks normal operating times are? Maybe the parents work odd shifts and their children have odd schedules as well to allow maximum quality time. Maybe they are all just night owls. 

It's very common for babies under 6 months to "have their days and nights mixed up" and 2 of my own children would sleep most of the day and be up all night. Do you have kids? Ever tried to wake a sleeping infant to try to get its schedule turned around. It isn't something we choose to have happen. 

Anyhow, I went to somewhere around 50 movies at the dollar theater when my (nursing) daughter was born until she was about 8 months old when she stopped sleeping through them and became an annoyance for others. If it was a particularly loud action movie I brought earplugs for her. Her first movie was "The Scorpion King"

----------


## anaconda

I have not read up on this incident much. I heard the 911 tapes that sounded like something out of a Hollywood movie. 

Anybody here see signatures of MK Ultra here? Or false flag? Just curious as to what you think.

It seems a tad peculiar to me that "law enforcement" is speaking in such detail about the "suspect" and the "evidence" that they are removing from his (alleged) residence. Almost as if they are trying way too hard to sell a particular narrative to the public, and way too soon in the process. Where have we seen this before? Just seen this $#@! one too many times to ever believe anything to soon.

----------


## angelatc

> Sounds like about ten minutes- said he went out about ten minutes into the film and the shooting started about 20 minutes in. 
> 
> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/...ater-shooting/
> 
> Not sure if it is true or not but that link has a picture of him with his "Joker" red hair at it.



None of the Jokers had red hair.

----------


## puppetmaster

> Why? Because it doesn't fit into what society thinks normal operating times are? Maybe the parents work odd shifts and their children have odd schedules as well to allow maximum quality time. Maybe they are all just night owls. 
> 
> It's very common for babies under 6 months to "have their days and nights mixed up" and 2 of my own children would sleep most of the day and be up all night. Do you have kids? Ever tried to wake a sleeping infant to try to get its schedule turned around. It isn't something we choose to have happen. 
> 
> Anyhow, I went to somewhere around 50 movies at the dollar theater when my (nursing) daughter was born until she was about 8 months old when she stopped sleeping through them and became an annoyance for others. If it was a particularly loud action movie I brought earplugs for her. Her first movie was "The Scorpion King"


It is my personal opinion as stated. There is scientific fact that we are not nocturnal in nature though, and yes I do have kids.

----------


## libertyfanatic

> None of the Jokers had red hair.


I was curious about this also. If I recall correctly, the Joker had green hair in the last Dark Knight movie.

----------


## Ender

> I was curious about this also. If I recall correctly, the Joker had green hair in the last Dark Knight movie.


Heath Ledger's Joker had red hair- it wasn't blazing red but it _was_ red.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Heath Ledger's Joker had red hair- it wasn't blazing red but it _was_ red.


I remember green hair. I think his nurse wig was red. Maybe I've forgotten a scene or two where it was red.

----------


## Weston White

> lol


Not really funny, but to each their own.





> That mural is clearly meant to show that those countries are destroying their military arms. That's why the flags and the dying soldier are there FFS


Which countries are doing that now and what do children have to do with a countries military and arms?

No, the real inner underlying message is that the people of all nations are turning in their arms to be destroyed by a central figurehead (i.e., the U.N. -by a German looking boy (or perhaps even Sweden), nonetheless), and thus military and war are no longer a necessity; for all are left in perpetually submissive state and left wholly dependant upon the grace of that very figurehead.

Aside from a blatant emotional appeal, the children represent the molding of change in future ideologies and perceptions. 

Regardless, what place do such murals have at an American airport in a (i.e., the only) nation that recognizes an individual right to keep and bear arms?  The answer is of course, no place.





> Why do you people believe in such bull$#@!?


Not sure what you’re referring to, could you encapsulate your question in reference?





> Everything that ever happens is a government black op false flag to you and everyone who was involved was brainwashed. Stop watching Alex Jones for a bit and you might start to see things for how they really are.


No, not true at all, there are in fact many, many incidents that take place on a daily basis, that while being effectively the result of governmental malfeasance or otherwise contributed to (be it indirectly or directly) by the actions or non-actions of “the government”, they would not necessarily be construed as a governmental “black op” or false flags; such as street gang violence, crimes of poverty, ramped homelessness, substance dependency, and police abuse that take place in every city across our Nation more and more with each passing day.  However, much of this is the ultimate end result of the grand causation being sought by those very same governmental entities -and so one’s troubles becomes prophetic, as they say.

Simply, there is no motive for James Holmes to have gone and done any of this; there is no evidence that he is a deranged psychopath; one of the key fields implanted within the government’s own PysOp program is neurology, which is just what Mr. Holmes happens to specialize in (apparently, he is a Ph.D in that field).

This entire public story that he somehow and suddenly thought he was a red-haired, red-clothed Batman nemesis “The Joker” (which can really only be said to be a possible match for the much earlier “Riddler”) is not befitting of his actions that night.  For if he had in-fact thought he were that fictitious character he would have instead opted to play mind games with the police and government “officials” and would have weaved a batch of elaborate clues leading to his own certain capture, etc.; surely, quietly surrendering and then giving police warnings about his actions and remaining dangers would have been totally out of the question, as he would have jested yet something more always up his sleeve. BTW, when are they releasing his mug shots to the public?





> I've never once said I had any type of therapy or that I take any medication (which I don't)


Actually, I think you did post something about taking psychotropic’ a few weeks back, but that is not really any of my business.





> So...why don't you shut the $#@! up about me, wrap on some more tin foil, and head back down to the basement?


Fair enough.  Although, since upgrading to a Faraday shielding, I no longer use aluminum foil.

----------


## Ender

> I remember green hair. I think his nurse wig was red. Maybe I've forgotten a scene or two where it was red.


I've got some pics of Ledger with red hair but don't know how to post from my desktop.

----------


## Weston White

> I've got some pics of Ledger with red hair but don't know how to post from my desktop.


Image we all know:

Image in short scene as nurse:

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I've got some pics of Ledger with red hair but don't know how to post from my desktop.


Pics from scenes that were used in the film? 

You can upload them to facebook or photobucket and then copy and paste the link in the picture thing here.

----------


## Roxi

> It is my personal opinion as stated. *There is scientific fact that we are not nocturnal in nature though*, and yes I do have kids.


So it is scientific fact that all our brains and circadian rhythms function the same? Source? 

I've known too many people who despite their best efforts to maintain a "normal" schedule, can't stay on one for long. Their cycle naturally reverts back to what might be considered nocturnal. I've often joked that maybe my brain lives on a schedule from another country or something because of my own sleep schedule issues, which my mom says I've had my entire life, and even in the womb. She claims that during pregnancy I would become active at around 10 pm and keep her up all night and then would have little to no activity from 4 or 5 am to the early evening hours.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Not really funny, but to each their own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which countries are doing that now and what do children have to do with a countries military and arms?
> 
> No, the real inner underlying message is that the people of all nations are turning in their arms to be destroyed by a central figurehead (i.e., the U.N. -by a German looking boy (or perhaps even Sweden), nonetheless), and thus military and war are no longer a necessity; for all are left in perpetually submissive state and left wholly dependant upon the grace of that very figurehead.
> 
> ...


No

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

Accidental double post

----------


## devil21

Congress will try to ban ammo sales through the mail, just like they did with tobacco.  That's what the 6k rounds bought off the net reporting is for.  You'll only be able to buy ammo from a retail store with ID that will be tracked soon.  They can't mess with gun sales much but they can clamp down on ammo sales without violating 2A.

----------


## devil21

Congress will try to ban ammo sales through the mail, just like they did with tobacco.  That's what the 6k rounds bought off the net reporting is for.  You'll only be able to buy ammo from a retail store with ID that will be tracked soon.  They can't mess with gun sales much but they can clamp down on ammo sales without violating 2A.

----------


## kathy88

> Estimated cost of booby traps: $300.


So an entire police force had to give up on disarming the elaborate "booby traps" after hours to be continued the next day, and it was only $300 worth of fireworks? BULL$#@!.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I find it interesting that purveyors of government mass murder conspiracy theories are typically minarchists.
> 
> Hey - let me know when you find the sorcerer's stone, okay?


So are you saying all the people on the list in the article; Josef Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, et al, are just "conspiracy theories"?  These are historical facts.  Governments kill a lot of people.  It's not a conspiracy.  The FBI has admitted to many of these black ops before, so why would we be surprised that the US government would do it?  Citizens commit "conspiracies" every day, and yet you think the government is out of reach of that kind of evil, even with the power they possess?  

Someone doesn't just gather tens of thousands of dollars in battle equipment over a period of probably several months or over a year and then commit an atrocity like this out of the blue in some random place like a movie theater for no reason.  It seems to me that a loner would have killed himself after he did it instead of facing life in prison or years on death row.  But no, he calmly surrendered to authorities and told them about the booby traps he had spent months preparing and thousands of dollars on just so they could be disarmed and disposed of.  I wouldn't be surprised if they blow the place now just to get rid of the evidence.  

I'm not going to say it's proof, or that it definitely is a false flag type event, but the looks are leaning pretty strongly in that direction, so I wouldn't be too hasty to patronize those who have some very valid questions about this.  It speaks volumes that people who deny it won't even consider the possibility when they know these are valid reasons to suspect something is up.  They have been propagandized to believe that a government would never do anything bad in secret unless it was something trivial and miniscule in scale.  

Wake up, people.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Jones has been calling this unequivocably a false flag.  Presumably, he's basing this on something someone has found inside the shooter's apartment, or on a whistle-blower, or SOMETHING other than he just wants this to be a false flag.  
> 
> AGAIN, I have my suspicions, but SUSPICIONS DO NOT EQUAL FACT.  Declarations of fact require indisputable evidence.


I don't think anyone has actually called it a fact.  Someone can say "definitely" and it would still be their opinion because they are simply saying that, by their way of thinking and the trends they have seen, they believe this to "definitely" be a false flag.  That's all I've really seen.  You don't need indisputable evidence to say you definitely believe something.  It's just something people say when they have very strong suspicions.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> According to posts earlier in the thread, most theaters don't have cameras or alarms on the exit doors.
> 
> (MelissaWV Beat me by seconds!)


I see that now.  Point taken.  They wouldn't have made it that obvious, would they?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Exactly!  This theater was also used for other things besides movies.   The stage was 60 feet high and counterbalances were used to drop in the 30 foot high backdrops and raise them from one act to another.   It was built back in the 20's.


I see, thanks.  I didn't know solid blocks of lead were so useful.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> No


Nice refutation there.  Can't argue with that.  I noticed you didn't even bother to type anything else and then edit it out like last time you responded with a simple "no" to a post with lots of substantive hypotheses and facts.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Nice refutation there.  Can't argue with that.  I noticed you didn't even bother to type anything else and then edit it out like last time you responded with a simple "no" to a post with lots of substantive hypotheses and facts.


He said I made a post which I know I didn't. I responded as I saw fit and I still think my post was fine for the one sentence I was responding to. 

How would you have had me respond to allegations that I'm on an SSRI?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> He said I made a post which I know I didn't. I responded as I saw fit and I still think my post was fine for the one sentence I was responding to. 
> 
> How would you have had me respond to allegations that I'm on an SSRI?


So does that justify responding to his last post with a simple no?  I don't really know what happened before, but this time he made a post about some very substantive suspicions and facts involving the case, and you just said no.  Does that seem like a sufficient response to you?  I mean, I see now that you were only responding to the bolded part, but that not withstanding, do you have anything to actually refute the evidence in the post?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> *So does that justify responding to his last post with a simple no?*  I don't really know what happened before, but this time he made a post about some very substantive suspicions and facts involving the case, and you just said no.  Does that seem like a sufficient response to you?


Actually...it does

I put the one sentence I was replying to in bold. If you have a problem with my statement of fact (that I didn't post that) then take it up with someone else because I don't care.




> *Actually, I think you did post something about taking psychotropic’ a few weeks back, but that is not really any of my business.*

----------


## kathy88

Holy $#@! are you guys still going at it?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Holy $#@! are you guys still going at it?


Rev9 keeps bringing up my posts in the other thread and PaulConventionWV is doing it in this one now.

----------


## pcosmar

> How would you have had me respond to allegations that I'm on an SSRI?


Honestly.

But that is irrelevant. One does wonder why you are so concerned with promoting "the official Story" rather than exploring the holes in it.
and there is this,,
http://ssristories.com/index.php

There is also this,,
http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol




> A declassified CIA document dated 7 Jan 1953 [1] describes the creation of multiple personality in 19-year old girls. "These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep H [hypnotic] controlled state ... by telephone, by receiving written matter, or by the use of code, signal, or words and that control of those hypnotized can be passed from one individual to another without great difficulty. It has also been shown by experimentation with these girls that they can act as unwilling couriers for information purposes."





> A CIA document dated 10 Feb 1954 [4] describes an experiment on the creation of unsuspecting assassins: "Miss [deleted] was then instructed (having expressed a fear of firearms) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken Miss [deleted] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep) and failing this, she would pick up a pistol and fire it at Miss [deleted]. She was instructed that she would not hesitate to "kill." Miss [deleted] carried out these suggestions including firing the (unloaded) gun at [deleted]. After proper suggestions were made, both were awakened. Miss [deleted] expressed absolute denial that the foregoing sequence had happened."





> 26 July 1963, Memorandum For: Director of Central Intelligence [20] From: CIA Inspector General
> 
> The concepts involved in manipulating behavior are found by many people both within and outside the Agency [CIA] to be distasteful and unethical. Nevertheless, there have been major accomplishments both in research and operational employment. Over the ten-year life of the program many additional avenues to the control of human behavior have been designated under the MKULTRA charter, including radiation, electro-shock, and harassment substances. Some activities raise questions of legality implicit in the original charter. A final phase of the testing places the rights and interests of US citizens in jeopardy.
> 
> Technical Services Division initiated a program for covert testing of materials on unwitting US citizens in 1955. TSD has pursued a philosophy of minimum documentation in keeping with the high sensitivity of the projects. Some files contained little or no data at all. There are just two individuals in TSD who have full knowledge of the MKULTRA program. NB 108-113


The very same people involved in this were responsible for the production and distribution of SSRI's.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Honestly.


I was being honest when I said no. I'm not on an SSRI, never said I was, and he was wrong to say that I am

----------


## shane77m

> Suspect Built Arsenal by Mail Order, Police Say


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories


So much for ordering ammo online. I am sure that will end up being made illegal.

----------


## qh4dotcom

> I'm guessing you don't ever go to the movies or watch movies in general... is that correct?


Correct....I rarely go...I care more about what Hollywood socialists are doing in real life than what they do in front of a camera....like all those millions they send to Obama.

----------


## phill4paul

> I was being honest when I said no. I'm not on an SSRI, never said I was, and he was wrong to say that I am


  Again, a snippet to a portion of a post without regard for the post in entirety.
  You make the accusation that individuals must be out of balance in their belief that this may have been a false flag government operation. However, you have no understanding of the reasoning behind such beliefs (MKUltra) and no desire to understand.

----------


## qh4dotcom

Kind of sad that some 15 year olds have more common sense than adults

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-...202304099.html



> Christine Cooley, who works for the University of Florida at a campus facility near Tampa, Fla., said she and her 15-year-old daughter were stunned by the TV coverage of the shooting Friday morning.
> 
> "Her immediate reaction was 'I'm never going to the movie theater again. Why should I go somewhere where I'm looking over my shoulder worrying that someone is going to come in and harm us when I can wait six months and watch it in the safety of my own home?'"


It's also cheaper to pay $1 from a supermarket kiosk than $20+ for two admissions to a movie theater.

----------


## MelissaWV

> So an entire police force had to give up on disarming the elaborate "booby traps" after hours to be continued the next day, and it was only $300 worth of fireworks? BULL$#@!.


In all fairness, I think we spent about $15 on fireworks for July 4th.  They were BOGO and included some big ole cannisters.  I don't doubt that someone who knows more about chemistry would be able to discern which ones would be best used for certain purposes, and $300 worth (especially after July 4th, too, when local grocery stores had their fireworks selling almost for free to clear inventory) would go pretty far.  

You can create a lot of rather terrible booby traps with stuff from the hardware store for cheap as well.  You can gather shrapnel from abandoned houses or construction sites.  Trip wires are not known for being costly.  I'm pretty sure that a lot of the booby traps set up in warzones have not been dependent upon huge budgets.  

Somehow, imagination is failing people on one side, and working overtime on the other.

* * * 

As to the Joker in The Dark Knight, the scene in which he is wearing the orange wig is the one in which he makes a very long speech about the nature of chaos.  There might be a connection, and there might not.  Maybe he went with the bright orange hair because orange is much easier to walk around with than green.  Maybe he has a set of playing cards where the Joker has orange hair.  Maybe he thinks it will match his jumpsuit.  I don't know.  

I do know that a lot of what's in this thread really is the reason folks stop coming around.  Coincidence about the number wounded and the number dead being "20-12... 2012"?  Well unfortunately for that, the numbers aren't correct anymore.  

As for having to "explain away" the long list of facts (including that Aurora is near Denver, which somehow makes this obviously staged, and including a large blue horse), I don't have to do that at all.  I will not PRE-EMPTIVELY assume what the Government is going to do, because I'd rather figure it out when they really do show up to take advantage of this.  The early calls for this and that are usually not the ultimate success.  

After 9/11 (regardless of what you believe about what happened there), the initial outcry was about the wiretapping and such.  It happened, and it's being exploited, but the TSA and such have grown at a much bigger pace.  After Columbine, there was much ado about banning guns, but really they just changed the gun show regulations a little... and then the "anti-bullying" meme was given a bit more volume, to the point you now have movie stars crying out for legislation to prevent bullying.

The people running around putting forth every idea that comes into their head about what happened, including declaring one thing or another impossible without any kind of evidence or logic, are doing everyone a hell of a disservice.  It is a damned shame that people have died, and folks' first thoughts are of who could have initiated the conspiracy and to what end.  Shame on us all, if that's what it's come to.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Again, a snippet to a portion of a post without regard for the post in entirety.


I didn't care about the rest of his post. I responded to the accusation he made against me and that's all. Get over it

----------


## brandon

You can get 500 gram "cakes" for about $40 or so.  So at $300, that could equal about 3.75kg of black powder.  It's not going to take out a whole building, but it could definitely kill someone and start a fire.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> You can get 500 gram "cakes" for about $40 or so.  So at $300, that could equal about 3.75kg of black powder.  It's not going to take out a whole building, but it could definitely kill someone and start a fire.


I thought he had the mortar style fireworks they use for huge displays? They get launched from these:

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Actually...it does
> 
> I put the one sentence I was replying to in bold. If you have a problem with my statement of fact (that I didn't post that) then take it up with someone else because I don't care.


So you don't have a response to anything else in the post?  I'll take that as admitting defeat.

----------


## MelissaWV

> I thought he had the mortar style fireworks they use for huge displays? They get launched from these:






This is what you could do for about $100 or so here.  If you took them apart and filled containers with the materials, shrapnel, and a triggering mechanism, I'd imagine you don't want to be near it when it goes off.

* * * 

Two more seconds and I found a guy talking about professional cake for $6.30.

----------


## phill4paul

> *I didn't care about the rest of his post*. I responded to the accusation he made against me and that's all. Get over it


  Exactly my point. Thanks for clarifying that you are woefully ignorant in some things and have no intention at all in making yourself knowledgeable enough to counter arguments in these regards. Much easier to put one's fingers in one's ears and scream 'LALALALA' and just $#@! stir.

----------


## specsaregood

> I thought he had the mortar style fireworks they use for huge displays? They get launched from these:


sidenote:  I once got to be the trigger man on the barge that set off a whole array of fireworks like that.  one of the shining highlights of my life, hopefully it is one of those memories that lasts until the end.  you may carry on now.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> So you don't have a response to anything else in the post?  I'll take that as admitting defeat.


I have plenty to say about the rest of his post but I'll keep them to myself this time so I don't get more hate dumped on me for disagreeing with people on completely illogical fantasies.




> Exactly my point. Thanks for clarifying that you are woefully ignorant in some things and have no intention at all in making yourself knowledgeable enough to counter arguments in these regards. Much easier to put one's fingers in one's ears and scream 'LALALALA' and just $#@! stir.


Hmmm

Respond to wall of crazy conspiracy text or the insult directed at me? I made the right decision I think

----------


## pcosmar

> I thought he had the mortar style fireworks they use for huge displays? They get launched from these:


I was taught to build Booby Traps in ROTC in the 70s. Was taught how to recognize and disarm them in the ARMY.

They were describing "buckets of ammo" which sounds like a re-loader to me. Likely had some gunpowder too.

A 12ga shotgun and a string makes a simple and effective Booby trap.. should be pretty simple for any fumbling EOD to disarm.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I was being honest when I said no. I'm not on an SSRI, never said I was, and he was wrong to say that I am


That seems a little dodgy to me.  You said you are not *currently* on an SSRI and never *said* that you were, but were you ever on one?

Regardless, however, I really don't care if you were ever on medication.  What I care about is getting to the bottom of this case, which you seem to be avoiding talking about at all costs.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Correct....I rarely go...I care more about what Hollywood socialists are doing in real life than what they do in front of a camera....like all those millions they send to Obama.


I didn't think you were actually serious before, but bravo if this is true.  More power to ya.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> That seems a little dodgy to me.  You said you are not *currently* on an SSRI and never *said* that you were, but were you ever on one?
> 
> Regardless, however, I really don't care if you were ever on medication.  What I care about is getting to the bottom of this case, which you seem to be avoiding talking about at all costs.


Ugh

FFS would you stop already? I didn't even type the word currently. I said I wasn't on one as in never was, never will be, and never said I was. You are really derailing this thread.




> Again, $#@! slinging without any idea of what it is you are slinging $#@! at and no desire to understand it. I made the right call.


Good. Now that you have declared yourself winner of the argument we can all go back to discussing the facts of the case.

----------


## MelissaWV

> I was taught to build Booby Traps in ROTC in the 70s. Was taught how to recognize and disarm them in the ARMY.
> 
> They were describing "buckets of ammo" which sounds like a re-loader to me. Likely had some gunpowder too.
> 
> A 12ga shotgun and a string makes a simple and effective Booby trap.. should be pretty simple for any fumbling EOD to disarm.


Yep.  My posts about the fireworks got bumped by the ever-important debate as to whether or not a poster was on medication and whether or not others care, but they did show what looked like cannisters and they talked about fireworks as well.  A few big cakes, some ammo, some tripwires, and a few other little razzle dazzles... not saying it's 100%, but there's no reason why $300 would not be more than enough to boobytrap an 800 square foot apartment (made of brick, no less; it would have been a hell of a mess).

----------


## phill4paul

> Respond to wall of *crazy conspiracy text* or the insult directed at me? I made the right decision I think


  Again, $#@! slinging without any idea of what it is you are slinging $#@! at and no desire to understand it. I made the right call.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Yep.  My posts about the fireworks got bumped by the ever-important debate as to whether or not a poster was on medication and whether or not others care, but they did show what looked like cannisters and they talked about fireworks as well.  A few big cakes, some ammo, some tripwires, and a few other little razzle dazzles... not saying it's 100%, but there's no reason why $300 would not be more than enough to boobytrap an 800 square foot apartment (made of brick, no less; it would have been a hell of a mess).


Besides the fireworks wasn't there mention of 2 liter bottles filled with chemicals and ammo?

----------


## pcosmar

> Yep.  My posts about the fireworks got bumped by the ever-important debate as to whether or not a poster was on medication and whether or not others care, but they did show what looked like cannisters and they talked about fireworks as well.  A few big cakes, some ammo, some tripwires, and a few other little razzle dazzles... not saying it's 100%, but there's no reason why $300 would not be more than enough to boobytrap an 800 square foot apartment (made of brick, no less; it would have been a hell of a mess).


Possible, true..  

But why go to the effort of Booby Trapping and then announce that it is Booby trapped?
Kind of defeats the purpose. (trapping a boob)

----------


## MelissaWV

> Besides the fireworks wasn't there mention of 2 liter bottles filled with chemicals and ammo?


Haven't been following it that closely, but it's plausible.  2L bottles are good for some things, but bad for anything that happens slowly enough to melt/warp them.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I have plenty to say about the rest of his post but I'll keep them to myself this time so I don't get more hate dumped on me for disagreeing with people on completely illogical fantasies.


You didn't seem to have a problem with that before.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Ugh
> 
> FFS would you stop already? I didn't even type the word currently. I said I wasn't on one as in never was, never will be, and never said I was. You are really derailing this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Good. Now that you have declared yourself winner of the argument we can all go back to discussing the facts of the case.


I thought you weren't interested in the facts of the case?

----------


## MelissaWV

> Possible, true..  
> 
> But why go to the effort of Booby Trapping and then announce that it is Booby trapped?
> Kind of defeats the purpose. (trapping a boob)


Presume for a moment that this is just a snobby kid who wants a whole lot of attention.  Assume that he believes he is so damned smart.  Now assume he thinks he's some supervillain (not blaming movies), particularly one who "plays games" with the cops.  You kill and wound a bunch of people, you give yourself up (if someone is genuinely narcissistic they don't want to see themselves killed or injured), you get your photo all over the news, but then what?  How can you make sure the news does specials on you and distinguishes you from the average killer?  Ah you set up this elaborate boobytrap scenario, and the cops have to spend time disarming it, possibly setting it off anyway but possibly making the news have to talk about you in even more detail.  After that?  Then come the exclusive interviews, the book deals, the marriage proposals, the fanmail, the movie and book rights, the association with one of the bigger movies of the summer...

Mind you, that's a whole lot of speculation, but I think it's at least as plausible as thinking he was a mid-20s kiddo MKULTRA because a shiny blue horse is at the airport where there's a mural showing obvious NWO leanings?

----------


## pcosmar

> Mind you, that's a whole lot of speculation,


Yup,, a lot of that going around.

But then a lot of the information/disinformation is from the media and tuned toward folks with no knowledge beyond Hollywood productions.

----------


## coastie

> Possible, true..  
> 
> But why go to the effort of Booby Trapping and then announce that it is Booby trapped?
> Kind of defeats the purpose. (trapping a boob)


They also keep harping(today 22 July) that he wanted to kill police officers with these titty traps, maybe forgetting they already told the press he told them the apartment was rigged almost immediately after his very peaceful capture. Which is it? His actions show he *didn't* want to kill the cops, but the cops are now saying "it is clear" he did.

I heard this morning that his AR jammed while firing with what sounds like a 100 rd drum mag, and he then" had to switch to a much-less powerful weapon..." ABC News radio 9am local time). I'm assuming they are referring to his alleged Glock .40.

The 100 rd drum mag is either an amateurish mistake....or a band-aid for untrained hands. Four 30 rd mags would have sufficed for someone trained, and the 100 rd drum increases the likelihood of a malfunction. He never tried to clear it.... in a room full of people focusing on nothing more than getting the $#@! out of there(and not playing hero and not shooting back), i.e. fish in a barrel.

This may explain his instant surrender, he may not have even known how to load these weapons, maybe it was already done for him beforehand? 

His weapons/equipment would've cost ~$20k or so. He was on unemployment.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> I thought you weren't interested in the facts of the case?


I said I wasn't interested in conspiracy false flag stuff. What types of fireworks he used, his motive, how he paid for it? Sure. I'm interested in that.

----------


## Dr.3D

> *They also keep harping(today 22 July) that he wanted to kill police officers with these titty traps, maybe forgetting they already told the press he told them the apartment was rigged almost immediately after his very peaceful capture. Which is it? His actions show he didn't want to kill the cops, but the cops are now saying "it is clear" he did.*
> 
> I heard this morning that his AR jammed while firing with what sounds like a 100 rd drum mag, and he then" had to switch to a much-less powerful weapon..." ABC News radio 9am local time). I'm assuming they are referring to his alleged Glock .40.
> 
> The 100 rd drum mag is either an amateurish mistake....or a band-aid for untrained hands. Four 30 rd mags would have sufficed for someone trained, and the 100 rd drum increases the likelihood of a malfunction. He never tried to clear it.... in a room full of people focusing on nothing more than getting the $#@! out of there(and not playing hero and not shooting back), i.e. fish in a barrel.
> 
> This may explain his instant surrender, he may not have even known how to load these weapons, maybe it was already done for him beforehand? 
> 
> His weapons/equipment would've cost ~$20k or so. He was on unemployment.


I can only surmise, he wanted a diversion.  The diversion failed when no one opened the door to his apartment.  Had the door been opened, and explosives gone off, he would have had much of the police force over at his apartment when he was doing his assault.

----------


## coastie

> I can only surmise, he wanted a diversion.  The diversion failed when no one opened the door to his apartment.  Had the door been opened, and explosives gone off, he would have had much of the police force over at his apartment when he was doing his assault.


True.

I am going purely off the media/police narrative. The last several days I have been listening to the talk radio station here on the way to our work site 2 hours away, and it has had strange twists and inconsistencies in it from the begining.

From the way they say he's acting now in jail(spitting and acting crazy), he could also be withdrawing off prescription meds...

----------


## phill4paul

> I can only surmise, he wanted a diversion.  The diversion failed when no one opened the door to his apartment.  Had the door been opened, and explosives gone off, he would have had much of the police force over at his apartment when he was doing his assault.


   This sounds like the most plausible reasoning to me. Music programmed to start at midnight at a very high volume. In an interview a resident claimed to have gone up and knocked. She then said she tried the door and it was unlocked but something told her not to open it.

----------


## Dr.3D

> True.
> 
> I am going purely off the media/police narrative. The last several days I have been listening to the talk radio station here on the way to our work site 2 hours away, and it has had strange twists and inconsistencies in it from the begining.
> 
> *From the way they say he's acting now in jail(spitting and acting crazy), he could also be withdrawing off prescription meds...*


Or acting under the orders of his attorney.   The attorney is trying to push the insanity angle.

----------


## specsaregood

> I said I wasn't interested in conspiracy false flag stuff. What types of fireworks he used, his motive, how he paid for it? Sure. I'm interested in that.


At the same time, we already know of one admitted, govt conspiracy regarding guns  during this administration-- the atf gunwalker case -- it would not be prudent to immediately dismiss the possiblity of govt involvement in this one.

----------


## coastie

> Or acting under the orders of his attorney.   The attorney is trying to push the insanity angle.



Or, or, or, oar.....

Bad situation all around for everyone involved, hope the injured recover as quick as possible.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> I do know that a lot of what's in this thread really is the reason folks stop coming around.


:thumbs:

----------


## AGRP

> I do know that a lot of what's in this thread really is the reason folks stop coming around.


Cointelpro: A series of covert, and often illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Cointelpro: A series of covert, and often illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.


I just have to know - are you suggesting that MelissaWV is cointelpro, or the Jones crowd is?  

Either way, you just made my day.  lulz abound.

----------


## coastie

> I just have to know - are you suggesting that MelissaWV is cointelpro, or the Jones crowd is?  
> 
> Either way, you just made my day.  lulz abound.




AGRP provided a definition-you provided the suggestion.

----------


## Revolution9

> I just have to know - are you suggesting that MelissaWV is cointelpro, or the Jones crowd is?  
> 
> Either way, you just made my day.  lulz abound.


Why just direct the non-accusation in that binary direction when there are many tangents to be taken? You ain't as smart as you think you are. When an individual is awake clowns like you with your veiled charientisms and trite gossipmongering tactics are just simply an annoyance cerebrally and have about as much effect as a mosquito on an elephant hide.

Rev9

----------


## A Son of Liberty

> Why just direct the non-accusation in that binary direction when there are many tangents to be taken? You ain't as smart as you think you are.


There's a lot of that going on, Sam.  




> When an individual is awake clowns like you with your veiled charientisms and trite gossipmongering tactics are just simply an annoyance cerebrally and have about as much effect as a mosquito on an elephant hide.
> 
> Rev9


Please see above.

----------


## Peace Piper

> and there is this,,
> http://ssristories.com/index.php


I had forgotten about that site.

Wow. No wonder the details of these (really) dangerous drugs aren't discussed on the public airwaves.

A Drug War indeed.

Everyone concerned with these horrific shootings should click pcosmar's link.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> I had forgotten about that site.
> 
> Wow. No wonder the details of these (really) dangerous drugs aren't discussed on the public airwaves.
> 
> A Drug War indeed.
> 
> Everyone concerned with these horrific shootings should click pcosmar's link.



Thing is, some of the drugs listed on that site are quite common, and increasingly among school-aged children.  Having some experience with a couple of them myself, one of the cautions that should be taken very seriously is *"Non-healthcare professionals should consult their physician before altering their treatment regimen."*  Unfortunately, people don't listen to that caution and try to take themselves off of the medication, or skip doses.

----------


## donnay

> Thing is, some of the drugs listed on that site are quite common, and increasingly among school-aged children.  Having some experience with a couple of them myself, one of the cautions that should be taken very seriously is *"Non-healthcare professionals should consult their physician before altering their treatment regimen."*  Unfortunately, people don't listen to that caution and try to take themselves off of the medication, or skip doses.


Not to mention, how much of these psychotropic drugs are in many peoples drinking water due to the fact of human waste?

*Medication Pollution Spreads: Water Supply of 24 U.S. Cities Found Contaminated with Pharmaceuticals*

----------


## Dr.3D

> Not to mention, how much of these psychotropic drugs are in many peoples drinking water due to the fact of human waste?
> 
> *Medication Pollution Spreads: Water Supply of 24 U.S. Cities Found Contaminated with Pharmaceuticals*


Yeah, and it's raising hell with the marine life.

----------


## mac_hine

Colorado Theater Eyewitness Describes Gunman & Possible Accomplice

----------


## pcosmar

> I can only surmise, he wanted a diversion.  The diversion failed when no one opened the door to his apartment.  Had the door been opened, and explosives gone off, he would have had much of the police force over at his apartment when he was doing his assault.


Diversion?

That could have been accomplished with a Molotov in a trash bin,, or a parked car.
Something the most inept "anarchist" could accomplish.

I have doubts there was anything resembling a bobby trap at his Apt.
Just the Police attempting to embellish the story.

These are the same cops that handcuffed and searched dozens of innocent people recently.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-bank-robber/

----------


## Revolution9

> Colorado Theater Eyewitness Describes Gunman & Possible Accomplice


Heart rending. I feel for these people.

Rev9

----------


## donnay

> Colorado Theater Eyewitness Describes Gunman & Possible Accomplice


The witness claims the suspected shooter was 5'8" - 5'9"


It's interesting to note that the suspected shooter was almost 6'3".

TMZ reports that the user created the profile on July 5, and most of the personal details seem to correspond to the same James Holmes currently in custody. One discrepancy, however, is that the profile lists a height of 6′, *whereas the FBI says Holmes stands at 6’3″*. According to the website, “Holmes” logged in sometime within the past few days.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/21/...n-sex-website/

----------


## MelissaWV

> Yup,, a lot of that going around.
> 
> But then a lot of the information/disinformation is from the media and tuned toward folks with no knowledge beyond Hollywood productions.


The problem is that we are also in an age where the people who shoot up places are also largely Hollywood-raised.  This guy was obviously smarter than most, regardless of whether one thinks of him as a lone loon or a Government pawn, so he's able to look ahead past certain common mistakes.  

Regarding the boobytrap thing, I can't recall hearing that he told the police all about them.  Given the one neighbor who said there was loud music, that she went to investigate, that she knocked, and that she finally tried the doorknob (and found it unlocked, and then immediately stopped trying to gain access)... it's also possible that it was designed to blow up the place simultaneously and split the response.  

Honestly, who knows?  But based on the little shreds evidence, this was well-planned.  Thinking that only the Government can plan something well enough to execute it is a little strange to me.

----------


## jonhowe

> Thinking that the Government can ever plan something well enough to execute it is a little strange to me.


Fix'd

----------


## MelissaWV

> Fix'd


Both are strange, but here's the scenario playing out on the forums right now...

1. Government is all-powerful and involved in numerous conspiracies, most unknown to the general public, and even those that are known are shrouded in secrecy and cover-ups.
2. Government messes up enough to allow some conspiracies to be so obvious that internet denizens pick up on them within minutes of their execution.
3. Unless Government WANTS those to be that obvious... but that does not stop people from falling into the Government trap.
4. Regular people cannot plan something "of this magnitude," by which they mean that it takes a village to teach someone to get guns, ammo, and set up boobytraps using tripwires and fireworks and various other things.  
5. Moreover, this guy was obviously mind-controlled because he studied neuroscience (I'm not sure how that one works; it's kind of like saying I might have a dinosaur if I study archaeology).
6. Denver's airport is shaped like a swatsika, therefore this guy did it but was controlled by nefarious Government forces.  There is a blue horse and a mural and some other stuff that makes this logic infallible.
7. This Government, which is smarter than this PhD student, craftier than anyone, bloodthirsty, and obviously has an agenda, planned this because of the highly-public upcoming Small Arms vote.
8. Curiously, prior similar UN "bills" have not met with similar attacks.
9. Alex Jones.
10. It is obviously a secret plot.  The contradiction in this sentence is a product of your mind.  

Kind of sums it up.

----------


## AuH20

> Both are strange, but here's the scenario playing out on the forums right now...
> 
> 1. Government is all-powerful and involved in numerous conspiracies, most unknown to the general public, and even those that are known are shrouded in secrecy and cover-ups.
> 2. Government messes up enough to allow some conspiracies to be so obvious that internet denizens pick up on them within minutes of their execution.
> 3. Unless Government WANTS those to be that obvious... but that does not stop people from falling into the Government trap.
> 4. Regular people cannot plan something "of this magnitude," by which they mean that it takes a village to teach someone to get guns, ammo, and set up boobytraps using tripwires and fireworks and various other things.  
> 5. Moreover, this guy was obviously mind-controlled because he studied neuroscience (I'm not sure how that one works; it's kind of like saying I might have a dinosaur if I study archaeology).
> 6. Denver's airport is shaped like a swatsika, therefore this guy did it but was controlled by nefarious Government forces.  There is a blue horse and a mural and some other stuff that makes this logic infallible.
> 7. This Government, which is smarter than this PhD student, craftier than anyone, bloodthirsty, and obviously has an agenda, planned this because of the highly-public upcoming Small Arms vote.
> ...


You talk about the government like it is a monolithic organization with full compliance as you scroll down to the lowest levels. What you are failing to acknowledge that there are powerful factions WITHIN the federal government. For example, there is a public face to the CIA with good, altruistic people working within it's walls and then there is a separated element completely above the law whether it's partaking in assassinations, psych ops, corporate motivated takeovers of natural resources, money laundering and drug running. There is no compartmentalization of morality when many of these individuals and their successors have been committing these misdeeds in other locales since the cold war. The train keeps chugging onward so to speak.

----------


## MelissaWV

Also: Anubis is involved.

----------


## anaconda

> I had forgotten about that site.
> 
> Wow. No wonder the details of these (really) dangerous drugs aren't discussed on the public airwaves.
> 
> A Drug War indeed.
> 
> Everyone concerned with these horrific shootings should click pcosmar's link.


Nice. Based upon the list anti-depressants should be schedule 1!!!!!! And Crack, PCP, Heroin, Cocaine, Speed, Ecstasy, Marijuana, Mushrooms, and Peyote should all be perfectly legal.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Presume for a moment that this is just a snobby kid who wants a whole lot of attention.  Assume that he believes he is so damned smart.  Now assume he thinks he's some supervillain (not blaming movies), particularly one who "plays games" with the cops.  You kill and wound a bunch of people, you give yourself up (if someone is genuinely narcissistic they don't want to see themselves killed or injured), you get your photo all over the news, but then what?  How can you make sure the news does specials on you and distinguishes you from the average killer?  Ah you set up this elaborate boobytrap scenario, and the cops have to spend time disarming it, possibly setting it off anyway but possibly making the news have to talk about you in even more detail.  After that?  Then come the exclusive interviews, the book deals, the marriage proposals, the fanmail, the movie and book rights, the association with one of the bigger movies of the summer...
> 
> Mind you, that's a whole lot of speculation, but I think it's at least as plausible as thinking he was a mid-20s kiddo MKULTRA because a shiny blue horse is at the airport where there's a mural showing obvious NWO leanings?


When's the last time there were tons of exclusive interviews with a mass murderer?  And marriage proposals, really?  Fanmail?  How evil are people?  Movie rights?  You've got to be kidding.  Did they make a movie about Columbine?  Bowling for Columbine doesn't count.

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I said I wasn't interested in conspiracy false flag stuff. What types of fireworks he used, his motive, how he paid for it? Sure. I'm interested in that.


So if the evidence suggests false flag, would you be willing to consider that as a possibility?  Or are you going to try to explain it any way you can before ever coming near an idea like that?

----------


## MelissaWV

> When's the last time there were tons of exclusive interviews with a mass murderer?  And marriage proposals, really?  Fanmail?  How evil are people?  Movie rights?  You've got to be kidding.  Did they make a movie about Columbine?  Bowling for Columbine doesn't count.


Are you joking?  Google "Charles Manson" interview sometime... see if that returns anything for you.  




> MARRIED TO TROUBLE
> A short recent history of the serial-killer spouse:
> • Carole Boone — married Ted Bundy in 1980, one child. 
> • Christine Kizuka — married Angelo Buono Jr. (Hillside Stranglers) in 1986. 
> • Sondra London — engaged to Danny Rolling (the Gainesville Ripper) in 1993. 
> • Doreen Lioy — married Richard Ramirez (the Night Stalker) in 1996. 
> • Tammi Saccoman — married Erik Menendez in 1999. 
> • Rebecca Sneed — married Lyle Menendez in 2003.





> This is the phenomenon of women who are attracted to the scent of demonic males -- fatally dangerous guys like Erik and Lyle Menendez, Robert Chambers and Scott Peterson. (Both Menendez brothers married in prison; Chambers was reportedly so besieged by transfixed females vying to smuggle him contraband that he had to be transferred to another jail; and Peterson has received at least two marriage proposals). ...even a one-eyed serial killer like Henry Lee Lucas had women panting after him, while John Wayne Gacy -- no one's idea of attractive and gay to boot (he killed 33 young men during homosexual encounters) -- became involved with a woman in prison.


To be fair, Manson was not actually a serial killer.

You can still Google for "exclusive interview killer" and, once you get past the rap interviews, see interviews with the BTK killer, etc..  You can look for exclusive jailhouse interviews, as well.  I believe Danny Rolling (a local serial killer here) not only proposed to the woman I referred to earlier, but also told his story to her in an attempt to get a book out about it.  Maybe he could have titled it "If I Did It," like OJ Simpson did.

Seriously?  You think it's far-fetched to think someone would seek noteriety through a mass-killing?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> I can only surmise, he wanted a diversion.  The diversion failed when no one opened the door to his apartment.  Had the door been opened, and explosives gone off, he would have had much of the police force over at his apartment when he was doing his assault.


Why would he just count on someone walking through his apartment door?  Did anybody have a reason to go in there without knowing what he was up to?

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Thing is, some of the drugs listed on that site are quite common, and increasingly among school-aged children.  Having some experience with a couple of them myself, one of the cautions that should be taken very seriously is *"Non-healthcare professionals should consult their physician before altering their treatment regimen."*  Unfortunately, people don't listen to that caution and try to take themselves off of the medication, or skip doses.


People take them as instructed and the same things happen.  It's listed as a side effect, for Pete's sake.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Why would he just count on someone walking through his apartment door?  Did anybody have a reason to go in there without knowing what he was up to?


His neighbor said she heard ridiculously loud music, which apparently was left on deliberately while the shooter was about his business.  She went up to his door, she says, knocked, and started to turn the doorknob but figured something was just not right when it was unlocked.

----------


## donnay

> Both are strange, but here's the scenario playing out on the forums right now...
> 
> 1. Government is all-powerful and involved in numerous conspiracies, most unknown to the general public, and even those that are known are shrouded in secrecy and cover-ups.
> 2. Government messes up enough to allow some conspiracies to be so obvious that internet denizens pick up on them within minutes of their execution.
> 3. Unless Government WANTS those to be that obvious... but that does not stop people from falling into the Government trap.
> 4. Regular people cannot plan something "of this magnitude," by which they mean that it takes a village to teach someone to get guns, ammo, and set up boobytraps using tripwires and fireworks and various other things.  
> 5. Moreover, this guy was obviously mind-controlled because he studied neuroscience (I'm not sure how that one works; it's kind of like saying I might have a dinosaur if I study archaeology).
> 6. Denver's airport is shaped like a swatsika, therefore this guy did it but was controlled by nefarious Government forces.  There is a blue horse and a mural and some other stuff that makes this logic infallible.
> 7. This Government, which is smarter than this PhD student, craftier than anyone, bloodthirsty, and obviously has an agenda, planned this because of the highly-public upcoming Small Arms vote.
> ...



Operation Ajax - declassified
Operation Gladio - declassified
Lavon Affair  
False Flag
Operation Northwoods - declassified


Leaked U.S. Army Document Outlines Plan For Re-Education Camps In America
http://www.infowars.com/leaked-u-s-a...ps-in-america/
http://info.publicintelligence.net/U...settlement.pdf

A newly leaked US Army Military Police training manual for "Civil Disturbance Operations" outlines how military assets are to be used domestically to quell riots, confiscate firearms and even kill Americans on U.S. soil during mass civil unrest. The document (PDF), which is dated 2006 and was used for a self-learning course at the U.S. Army Military Police School at Fort McClellan, makes it clear that the operations described in the manual apply to both "CONUS and OCONUS," meaning inside the Continental United States and outside the Continental United States. The document outlines how military assets will be used to "help local and state authorities to restore and maintain law and order" in the event of mass riots, civil unrest or a declaration of martial law. The primary function of military assets will be focused around, "breaking up unauthorized gatherings and by patrolling the disturbance area to prevent the commission of lawless acts," states the document, adding, "during operations to restore order, military forces may present a show of force, establish roadblocks, break up crowds, employ crowd control agents, patrol, serve as security forces or reserves, and perform other operations as required." The manual also describes how prisoners will be processed through temporary internment camps under the guidance of U.S. Army FM 3-19.40 Internment/Resettlement Operations, which as we reported earlier this year, outlines how internees would be "re-educated" into developing an "appreciation of U.S. policies" while detained in prison camps inside the United States. On page 20 of the manual, rules regarding the use of "deadly force" in confronting "dissidents" are made disturbingly clear with the directive that a, "Warning shot will not be fired." The manual includes lists of weapons to be used against "rioters" or "demonstrators," including "antiriot grenades." It also advises troops to carry their guns in the "safe port arms" stance, a psychological tactic aimed at "making a show of force before rioters." Non-lethal weapons and water cannons are also included. The document also explains how the military will be involved in spying on and gathering information on dissidents to identify the, "Existence of persons, groups, or organizations which have distinctively threatened or are creating disturbances." "Crowd control agents" will also be deployed for the purpose of "reducing resistance," states the manual, which also implies that troops will be used to confiscate firearms. "Restrictions on the sale, transfer, and possession of sensitive material such as gasoline, firearms, ammunition, and explosives will help control forces in minimizing certain forms of violence," states the document on page 40. 


Underwear bombing--false flag  
Fast and Furious--false Flag

Look up devil's breath
Look up psychotropic drugs 


2 Senator are undecided on the UN gun ban treaty...you think they will say no now?

----------


## qh4dotcom

You all should care more about what Hollywood statists do in real life than what they do in front of a camera pretending to be someone that they are not...like doing commercials for Obama and sending him millions in campaign contributions.

----------


## cajuncocoa

> People take them as instructed and the same things happen.  It's listed as a side effect, for Pete's sake.


Not challenging that fact....I remember the stories that came out about Prozac in the early 90s, and that's just one example.  But many people take antidepressants with success and with no adverse reactions, too.

----------


## erowe1

> 2 Senator are undecided on the UN gun ban treaty...you think they will say no now?


Which 2? And how do you know?

----------


## AuH20

> Which 2? And how do you know?


Corker is one not suprisingly. Don't know the other.

----------


## MelissaWV

I am sure I can look back and find that, every time this same gun ban discussion arose (and it has, multiple times), there was a false flag that tilted things in the UN's favor.  Right?  

Someone's going to realize, way too late, that crying wolf all the time just makes so much noise that when the one person actually spots the real wolf coming with all of its pack... you can't hear a $#@!in' thing.

----------


## AuH20

> I am sure I can look back and find that, every time this same gun ban discussion arose (and it has, multiple times), there was a false flag that tilted things in the UN's favor.  Right?  
> 
> Someone's going to realize, way too late, that crying wolf all the time just makes so much noise that when the one person actually spots the real wolf coming with all of its pack... you can't hear a $#@!in' thing.


It's about providing politicians with political cover so as to lessen the blow of a controversial vote. 2 republican senators can switch over at the last second and cite their personal conscience or some emo mumbo jumbo.

----------


## erowe1

> Corker is one not suprisingly. Don't know the other.


Really?

Because he's one of the signatories on this letter.
http://hatch.senate.gov/public/index...1-79f4e5b258bc

They need 67 senators to ratify the treaty, and it looks to me like there's no chance of that. People keep saying that it's close, but I don't see what their basis is for that.

----------


## AuH20

> Really?
> 
> Because he's one of the signatories on this letter.
> http://hatch.senate.gov/public/index...1-79f4e5b258bc
> 
> They need 67 senators to ratify the treaty, and it looks to me like there's no chance of that. People keep saying that it's close, but I don't see what their basis is for that.


Yes, he signed the letter but later his office informed a few activists a week or two ago, that he was undecided until he reads the details of the treaty. It's odd that he's now undecided.

----------


## AuH20

Corker is pretty much untrustworthy as seen by his financial ties (see URL below). And I don't trust Ayotte, Portman, Snowe, & Collins. And certainly Kirk and Brown are vulnerable to succumbing due to the mentality of the states they serve. Lamar Alexander is another wildcard creep that could flip for the right price.

http://tncampaignforliberty.org/word...deral-reserve/




> They point to vote ratings by the conservative group Heritage Action for America, which said Corker voted conservatively only 74 percent of the time, and by the nonpartisan Congressional Quarterly, which found Corker voted with President Barack Obama’s position 61 percent of the time last year.
> 
> “Just look to see who’s contributing to his campaign,” said Zach Poskevich, a tea party-backed Republican from Hendersonville. He said that might explain why Corker voted for the 2008 bank bailout and for the 2009 Cash for Clunkers program that offered consumers rebates to trade in gas-guzzlers for more fuel-efficient cars.

----------


## donnay

> Really?
> 
> Because he's one of the signatories on this letter.
> http://hatch.senate.gov/public/index...1-79f4e5b258bc
> 
> They need 67 senators to ratify the treaty, and it looks to me like there's no chance of that. People keep saying that it's close, but I don't see what their basis is for that.




Beware Gun Owners, U.N. Moves Forward on Arms Trade Treaty 
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...s-trade-treaty

----------


## cajuncocoa

*Colorado shooting spree could have been worse; shooters gun jammed, official says*

By David A. Fahrenthold, Thomas Heath and Joel Achenbach, Updated: Sunday, July 22, 2:15 PM

AURORA, Colo.  New details about the midnight-movie shooting rampage here suggest that the death toll could have been even worse, as the gunmans semiautomatic assault rifle jammed and prevented him from emptying a 100-round clip of ammunition, a law enforcement source said Sunday.

There also emerged a new twist in the narrative that indicates that the alleged shooter, identified by authorities as James Holmes, did not immediately surrender to police and could have come close to eluding capture by slipping away in the guise of a SWAT team officer.

The law enforcement source, who is close to the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly, said something went awry in the killers planned assault at the Century 16 theater during the midnight screening Friday of the Batman movie The Dark Knight Rises. Police said the alleged gunman had three weapons: a Remington shotgun, a Smith & Wesson M&P assault rifle, and a Glock 40-caliber handgun.

The semiautomatic assault rifle, which is akin to an AR-15 and is a civilian version of the militarys M-16, could fire 50 to 60 rounds per minute, and is designed to hold large ammunition clips. Holmes allegedly had obtained a 100-round drum magazine that attached to the weapon, the source said, but that such large magazines are notorious for jamming.

The law enforcement official said authorities believe Holmes first used the shotgun  some victims in the hospital have buckshot wounds  and then began using the assault rifle, which jammed. Then he resorted to the handgun.

Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates, interviewed on Fox News Sunday, did not confirm or deny that the gun jammed, but said police found the 100-round magazine lying on the floor of the theater. He said he didnt know whether it was empty.

Holmes is accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 in one of the worst mass shootings in American history.

Initial police accounts said Holmes surrendered without incident to police who found him at his car in the rear of the Aurora theater. But Oates, in an interview on CBSs Face the Nation on Sunday, described a more complicated scene in the minutes after the shooting: He said that officers arriving at the scene might have mistaken Holmes for a SWAT officer. He allegedly wore a helmet, throat guard, ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, gloves and was dressed entirely in black.

Oates said a piece of equipment in Holmes elaborate gear  he wouldnt specify which piece  struck one of the responding officers as irregular. The officer questioned Holmes. Oates did not describe the exchange, only the result: Holmes was arrested.

Police are in the process of trying to restore some sense of normalcy to the neighborhood where Holmes lived, and where residents of five buildings had been evacuated after police discovered that the suspects apartment had been booby-trapped with dozens of explosives.

After clearing the apartment of explosives on Saturday, bomb squad officers Sunday transported hazardous chemicals to a nearby field and burned or destroyed the material.

Police said Holmes, 24, spent months amassing explosives, weapons and ammunition and then walked into a movie theater early Friday and began shooting.

In an appearance Sunday on CBSs Face the Nation, Aurora Mayor Steve Hogan said nine of the people wounded were in critical condition and some had undergone several surgeries. The death toll could rise, officials said.

Theyre in bad shape, Hogan said. There are people who have had already numerous surgeries, numerous brain surgeries, there are some folks that are in bad shape.
Hogan said authorities were analyzing the contents of Holmess apartment.

Im told there was a computer inside the apartment and with the assistance of the FBI that computer will be completely analyzed, Hogan said on the news show. That may take some time. So were hopeful that will yield some information.

Meanwhile, details began to emerge about the failed neuroscience student who is scheduled to appear in court Monday  a young man who, despite troubles in academia so severe that he was quitting his graduate school program, showed no obvious sign of being on the brink of extreme violence.

Glenn Rotkovich, owner of the Lead Valley Range, in Byers, Colo., said he received an e-mail from Holmes on June 25 asking for an application to join the shooting range.

When I get e-mails, I look at the application and see if everything is filled out and see if they are answered properly, Rotkovich said.

He said he followed up with Holmes within a day or two, calling him to inform him when to come to the range for orientation.

I called him and I did not get him, Rotkovich said. I got his answering machine. It was a very bass, very deep-sounding, guttural voice that once you heard it, you realize it was not an accident or a message. Somebody was trying to make it sound that way. It was an intentional act. . .bizarre or freakish. I could not make out certain words.

Rotkovich, who has never spoken with Holmes, called a couple more times in the following days and heard the same message. By the time I called the third time, my attitude is one that I dont like this, Rotkovich said. So I told everybody, if James Holmes shows up, hes doing nothing before I saw him. Is he weird? Is there something strange about this dude? I flagged it that he had to see me before he gets to do anything.

Rotkovich said he has forwarded the e-mail he received from Holmes to authorities.

ABC News reported Sunday that Holmes had been studying neuroscience under a grant from the National Institutes of Health, only one of six people annually selected for the honor, according to the report. The network also broadcast a video from a science camp in San Diego that the network said Holmes attended six years ago, at age 18, where he addressed an audience on the topic of subjective experience.

In the video, the person who introduced Holmes to the audience at the science camp said his professional goals were to become a researcher and make scientific discoveries. She said that Holmes enjoyed soccer and strategy games and one day hoped to own a Slurpee machine.

Last fall, Holmes began a four-year doctoral course in neuroscience at a University of Colorado medical campus in Aurora, a Denver suburb. He would be studying the mechanics of the brain, the ways that electrical signals transmit thoughts and sensations. Holmes was part of a small group of first-year students who met together numerous times a week for classes in a small conference room.

Five of the students formed a close bond over their shared classes and workload, and their concerns about being accepted to their preferred research laboratory  a ritual that happened at the end of the first year. But Holmes didnt share in that bond, one student said. Holmes spoke only when prompted in class, and spoke almost never outside of the classroom.

I was always trying to get into his head, said one fellow neuroscience first-year. If no one had ever said anything to him, he wouldnt have said a word all year.

The student, who asked not to be named because the university has asked students not to speak to the media, said that Holmes often was the first to arrive at class, riding from his nearby apartment on a BMX bike more fit for an adolescent. But once class began, he had a habit of daydreaming.

Its like youre interrupting another train of thought that Holmes was pondering, the student said.

When Holmes was required to speak in class, he often spoke in a monotone, but he sprinkled his presentations with attempts at humor, little puns and jokes. In the hallways, Holmes would join  when prompted  in grousing about assignments and required reading. He often smiled when he spoke and gave his classmates good marks when they had to review each others work. The classmate remembers no hint of anger or edge.

But Holmes volunteered little information about his life outside the classroom. The student could remember just one personal detail that Holmes revealed without being asked: During a conversation about football, he said he was a San Diego Chargers fan.

After classes, Holmes was always the first to leave. His fellow students assumed he was just sequestered in his off-campus apartment.

I always just figured he liked being alone, the student said.

Four months ago, when Holmes allegedly began stockpiling ammunition and explosives, his behavior in class didnt seem to change. Then came early June, when all first-year students must face a demanding oral exam. The exam came and went, and the other students didnt hear how Holmes did. Then they got word that he had sent an e-mail to administrators, saying he would leave school. His classmates were not told a reason.

A few days after that, the student saw Holmes walking across a campus food court and wondered why Holmes was still on campus. Then, on the morning after the shootings, this odd classmates name was suddenly on the news.

My stomach just sank, the student said. Somehow, the student felt it must be the same quiet student who had never shown signs of anger. I completely knew.
Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said he and his officers felt targeted by the elaborate network of explosives in Holmess apartment.

This apartment was designed, I say, based on everything Ive seen, to kill whoever entered it, Oates said at a news briefing. It was gonna be a police officer, okay? Make no mistake about what was going on there. You think were angry, we sure as hell are angry.

Aurora police said Saturday night that all explosives had been removed from the apartment and that FBI agents had gone inside to examine other evidence.
The protracted bomb-squad work at Holmess apartment took place on a day when Aurora residents learned the names of the victims in the assault at the Century 16 movie theater, where a crowd of mostly young people showed up for the midnight screening early Friday of the new Batman film, The Dark Knight Rises.

Among the dead were two members of the military, a man celebrating his 27th birthday and a 6-year-old girl, Veronica Moser-Sullivan, whose 25-year-old mother, Ashley Moser, is in critical condition and semiconscious with multiple gunshot wounds to her throat and abdomen.

President Obama will travel Sunday to Colorado to visit with shooting victims and their families in Aurora, the White House said Saturday night.

Holmes had no criminal record. He is being held without bond in the Arapahoe County Jail on suspicion of first-degree murder, reportedly in solitary confinement, and although he has not been formally charged, police said there are no other suspects. He is being represented by the public defenders office.

Police learned from Holmes when they arrested him that his apartment was booby-trapped. It is unclear why Holmes, minutes after allegedly shooting strangers in a movie house, told police about the explosives.

Oates said that for four months, Holmes had been receiving a large number of commercial packages, which the chief said enabled him to assemble the material in the booby-trapped apartment and the small arsenal of weapons and ammunition allegedly used in the massacre.

What were seeing here is evidence, I think, of some calculation and deliberation, the police chief said.

Detectives had been unable to investigate Holmess 800-square-foot third-floor apartment because of the elaborate web of incendiary and chemical devices, numbering about 60 in all. The effort to defuse and disarm the explosives was made all the more delicate by the need to preserve any criminal evidence.

In a hallway just inside the front door, a wire-filament tripwire was strung at waist height, according to a law enforcement source. The tripwire was connected to two containers of chemicals that, when mixed, could create an explosion.

The bomb squad disarmed the setup by sending in a robot that slipped beneath the tripwire and removed one of the bottles of liquid.

Then came 30 spherical canisters in the living room. These resembled fireworks shells packed with gunpowder  improvised grenades, the official called them. Wires ran from these devices to a control box in the apartment kitchen. It was not clear, the official said, how they were supposed to be detonated.

Authorities used a bottle shot  a small explosive charge that sends out a wave of water at high speed  to destroy the control box.

Finally, the official said, there were about three jugs in the living room filled with what appeared to be a combination of liquid and gunpowder. Improvised napalm, the official called it. These were not rigged to blow up, but likely would have been set off in a sympathetic detonation if the other explosives had been tripped. That would have given the blast extra heat and destructive power.

With the explosives cleared, residents of four adjacent buildings can begin returning home. Some had been staying in emergency shelters and others with friends and relatives.
It went very, very well, FBI Special Agent James Yacone said Saturday afternoon.

Churches in the Denver area have changed their signs to honor the victims, and radio DJs have been reading messages of support. But inside the homes and hospital rooms where victims were recovering, the second day was said to be harder than the first. The adrenaline had worn off, leaving the reality of injury and loss.

It was the first full day of living with what happened, and what happened still didnt make any sense.

Annie Dalton, the aunt of Ashley Moser, told the Associated Press that the critically wounded 25-year-old has been in and out of consciousness and had not been told that her daughter, Veronica, did not survive the shooting.

All shes asking about, of course, is her daughter, Dalton said, according to AP. She was a vibrant 6-year-old. She was excited, shed just learned how to swim.

The Navy and Air Force confirmed that John Larimer, 27, and Jesse Childress, 29, both stationed at Buckley Air Force Base in Aurora, had been killed.

Sailors were really drawn to his calming demeanor and exceptional work ethic, Cmdr. Jeffrey Jakuboski, Larimers commanding officer, said of the young officer. He truly did have a bright future ahead of him in the Navy.

Lt. Col. Pat Walsh, who supervised Childress in his job as a computer technician, said: He literally touched everyone in the wing, over a thousand people. . . . Well get through this, but its extremely difficult for us right now.

Matt McQuinn, 27, died at the theater trying to protect his girlfriend, Samantha Yowler, 27, along with her brother, Nick Yowler, 32. McQuinn and Nick Yowler stood up to shield Samantha from the bullets. McQuinn was struck in the chest, leg and back, said lawyer Rob Scott, a spokesman for both families. Samantha Yowler is in the hospital recovering from surgery after a bullet struck her knee.

Alex Sullivan of Aurora was at the midnight showing to celebrate his 27th birthday when he was killed.

Alex is known for his bear hugs, said his cousin Steve Schwab. It doesnt matter how long since youve spoken to him, hell always end the call with I love you. 
Sullivan, known for his love of comics, worked at the Aurora theater where he died. Sullivans family didnt get confirmation of his death from authorities until Friday evening.
What we just kept thinking is that he was in the theater helping everyone, because that would be his natural inclination, Schwab said.

Three helicopters circled above the movie theater Saturday afternoon. The nearby mall was closed. Some cars from Thursday nights premiere still sat behind police tape in the parking lot.
Down the block, mourners dropped flowers at a makeshift memorial on a street corner. Two men stood by the memorial and held up signs promoting Jesus  one in English, one in Spanish.
Achenbach and Heath reported from Washington. Sari Horwitz, T.W. Farnam, Jenna Johnson and Carol D. Leonnig in Washington and Eli Saslow and special correspondent Sandra Fish in Colorado contributed to this report.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Has anyone seen a statement from his academic adviser or found anything on what he was working on?  He was an excellent student in a PhD program  and unexpectedly dropped out.  What gives?  PhD students do crack under the pressure fairly regularly, but usually only kill their adviser.

-t

----------


## erowe1

> Beware Gun Owners, U.N. Moves Forward on Arms Trade Treaty 
> http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...s-trade-treaty


That article says, "Currently, 58 senators are on record in strong opposition to the treaty if it includes civilian firearms, as is widely expected." So how does it support fears that the Senate will ratify the treaty?

----------


## AuH20

> *Colorado shooting spree could have been worse; shooter’s gun jammed, official says*
> 
> By David A. Fahrenthold, Thomas Heath and Joel Achenbach, Updated: Sunday, July 22, 2:15 PM
> 
> AURORA, Colo. — New details about the midnight-movie shooting rampage here suggest that the death toll could have been even worse, as the gunman’s semiautomatic assault rifle jammed and prevented him from emptying a 100-round clip of ammunition, a law enforcement source said Sunday.
> 
> There also emerged a new twist in the narrative that indicates that the alleged shooter, identified by authorities as James Holmes, did not immediately surrender to police and could have come close to eluding capture by slipping away in the guise of a SWAT team officer.
> 
> The law enforcement source, who is close to the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly, said something went awry in the killer’s planned assault at the Century 16 theater during the midnight screening Friday of the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises.” Police said the alleged gunman had three weapons: a Remington shotgun, a Smith & Wesson M&P assault rifle, and a Glock 40-caliber handgun.
> ...


Why didn't Holmes use a semi-auto shotgun with a 20 round drum?? He could have done so much more damage with a Saiga magazine/drum loaded shotgun at that close a range (inside of 30 yards). I don't understand why he's lugging around a very heavy 100 round drum that's prone to jamming?? That setup is not very practical unless he was very poor at reloading mags.

----------


## erowe1

> Has anyone seen a statement from his academic adviser or found anything on what he was working on?  He was an excellent student in a PhD program  and unexpectedly dropped out.  What gives?  PhD students do crack under the pressure fairly regularly, but usually only kill their adviser.
> 
> -t


This article says he was only in his 1st year. It also says that he was scheduled to give a presentation on "MicroRNA Biomarkers." So I'd guess that's what his research was focused on.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1693376.html

ETA:
There's more information about that here:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/u...ries-1.3853167

It says, "In the first year of the five- to seven-year program, students take classes and complete three, three-month research rotations in the labs of different professors." So I would infer that he hadn't begun his dissertation research yet.

----------


## phill4paul

> Why didn't Holmes use a semi-auto shotgun with a 20 round drum?? He could have done so much more damage with a Saiga magazine/drum loaded shotgun at that close a range (inside of 50 yards). *I don't understand why he's lugging around a very heavy 100 round drum that's prone to jamming?? That setup is not very practical.*


  It does however play into anti- hi capacity magazine fears.  Once someone is convinced that a 100 round drum is excessive it is an easy slide to 'how much is really needed?' 50? 30? 20? 10? 5?

----------


## AuH20

> It does however play into anti- hi capacity magazine fears.  Once someone is convinced that a 100 round drum is excessive it is an easy slide to 'how much is really needed?' 50? 30? 20? 10? 5?


A 100 round drum is a nice toy to play around with in the woods, but it's more of a hindrance than a benefit. Spetnaz and American operators don't use anything more than 30 round clips. The cumbersome weight and unreliability of the 100 round drum is completely counterproductive to the operation of the weapon more times than not.

----------


## erowe1

Here's something interesting. The UC Denver website's list of doctoral programs lets you click on links to each individual program. All of the ones I've tried work except the Neuroscience one, which says "authentication required."
http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/de...ePrograms.aspx

----------


## phill4paul

> A 100 round drum is a nice toy to play around with in the woods, but it's more of a hindrance than a benefit. Spetnaz and American operators don't use anything more than 30 round clips. The cumbersome weight and unreliability of the 100 round drum is completely counterproductive to the operation of the weapon more times than not.


  I don't disagree. Just speaking of foot in the door politics. 100 round drums, while impractical, are a great cry against 'high capacity' magazines. Which could include 30 rd. magazines.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Here's something interesting. The UC Denver website's list of doctoral programs let's you click on links to each individual program. All of the ones I've tried work except the Neuroscience one, which says "authentication required."
> http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/de...ePrograms.aspx


That's odd.  I started from the bottom and Toxicology requires a login, so does Biophysics, etc..

----------


## erowe1

> That's odd.  I started from the bottom and Toxicology requires a login, so does Biophysics, etc..


Weird. Toxicology works for me. Biophysics doesn't.

ETA: It looks like that pattern is that it's the programs in the medical school that don't let you view them.

----------


## pcosmar

> A 100 round drum is a nice toy to play around with in the woods, but it's more of a hindrance than a benefit. Spetnaz and American operators don't use anything more than 30 round clips. The cumbersome weight and unreliability of the 100 round drum is completely counterproductive to the operation of the weapon more times than not.


Someone that could not clear a jam in a second would likely not be able to change magazines.
(mechanically inept)

Too many aspects of this make no logical sense,, therefore the illogical  must be considered.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Initial police accounts said Holmes surrendered without incident to police who found him at his car in the rear of the Aurora theater. But Oates, in an interview on CBSs Face the Nation on Sunday, described a more complicated scene in the minutes after the shooting: He said that officers arriving at the scene might have mistaken Holmes for a SWAT officer. He allegedly wore a helmet, throat guard, ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, gloves and was dressed entirely in black.
> 
> Oates said a piece of equipment in Holmes elaborate gear  he wouldnt specify which piece  struck one of the responding officers as irregular. The officer questioned Holmes. Oates did not describe the exchange, only the result: Holmes was arrested.


I'm guessing the wrong brand of gas mask.  Maybe something else.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Someone that could not clear a jam in a second would likely not be able to change magazines.
> (mechanically inept)
> 
> Too many aspects of this make no logical sense,, therefore the illogical  must be considered.


He bought all 4 firearms in the past 60 days and was attempting to join a gun club.  It does not appear that he ever fired any of the weapons before entering the theater.

-t

----------


## PaulConventionWV

> Not challenging that fact....I remember the stories that came out about Prozac in the early 90s, and that's just one example.  But many people take antidepressants with success and with no adverse reactions, too.


I would be careful saying "no adverse reactions."  It changes people, mentally.  Some may be more susceptible than others, but that doesn't change the basic chemistry behind it.  It stops their episodes, alright, but at what cost?  Many on here have reported trying them and feeling like a zombie or like a crazy person who might actually kill their kids.  Think about what it takes to make something like that happen.  But it's okay because it's just a "side effect."  No, it's not.  It's an effect.  

I'm not trying to argue with you becauseI know you're not challenging, but for anyone who thinks this is a normal way to deal with mental health and emotions, you should know the potential consequences.  Feeling like a zombie is no surprise.  These "medicines" don't make you feel better, they stop you from feeling at all.  Is it really any surprise that people would do something like this if they can't feel?

----------


## evandeck

I found this on Reddit today. This is what Jason Alexander from Seinfeld wrote about the shootings. What he said that surprised me is in bold. (Warning: Long)




> I'd like to preface this long tweet by saying that my passion comes from my deepest sympathy and shared sorrow with yesterday's victims and with the utmost respect for the people and the police/fire/medical/political forces of Aurora and all who seek to comfort and aid these victims.
> 
> This morning, I made a comment about how I do not understand people who support public ownership of assault style weapons like the AR-15 used in the Colorado massacre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
> 
> That comment, has of course, inspired a lot of feedback. There have been many tweets of agreement and sympathy but many, many more that have been challenging at the least, hostile and vitriolic at the worst.
> 
> Clearly, the angry, threatened and threatening, hostile comments are coming from gun owners and gun advocates. Despite these massacres recurring and despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence - these people see no value to even considering some kind of control as to what kinds of weapons are put in civilian hands. 
> 
> *Many of them cite patriotism as their reason - true patriots support the Constitution adamantly and wholly. Constitution says citizens have the right to bear arms in order to maintain organized militias. I'm no constitutional scholar so here it is from the document itself:*
> ...


http://www.reddit.com/tb/wys8n

I'm not sure what to think of this. Does he think that liberty is threatened?

----------


## pcosmar

> He bought all 4 firearms in the past 60 days and was attempting to join a gun club.  It does not appear that he ever fired any of the weapons before entering the theater.
> 
> -t


And went (dressed for battle) to a movie theater  where guns were prohibited..
And when the first person that could have actually resisted showed up,, he surrendered without any struggle or fight. 

He booby traps his home (allegedly) and then tells the targets of the Booby traps that they are there.

And an extremely inept Police Force (news story posted earlier) get to  show how "professional" they are.

And I am supposed to eat this $#@! up like candy.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> Weird. Toxicology works for me. Biophysics doesn't.
> 
> ETA: It looks like that pattern is that it's the programs in the medical school that don't let you view them.


The university also took down the website for its graduate neuroscience program on Saturday.

Dan Keeney, president of DPK Public Relations in Dallas, said asking for silence from university employees because of a police investigation was appropriate, but taking down the website was "indefensible" for a publicly funded university unless the school believed it contained inaccurate information relating to the suspect.

"It's an indefensible action," he said. "It's disappointing to hear that they would take that action because it suggests that it's not in the public's interest to have access to that information and I think it is in the public's interest."

The school took down the neuroscience department's site at the request of faculty and staff who had privacy concerns, Montgomery said

...

Three days after the massacre, it still remained unclear whether Holmes' professors and other students at his 35-student Ph.D. program noticed anything unusual about his behavior. His reasons for quitting the program in June, just a year into the five- to seven-year program, also remained a mystery.

The university declined to release any details of his academic record, citing privacy concerns, and at least two dozen professors and other staff declined to speak with the AP. Some said they were instructed not to talk publicly about Holmes in a blanket email sent to university employees.

Jacque Montgomery, a spokeswoman for the University of Colorado medical school, said that police have told the school to not talk about Holmes.

The university also took down the website for its graduate neuroscience program on Saturday.

Dan Keeney, president of DPK Public Relations in Dallas, said asking for silence from university employees because of a police investigation was appropriate, but taking down the website was "indefensible" for a publicly funded university unless the school believed it contained inaccurate information relating to the suspect.

"It's an indefensible action," he said. "It's disappointing to hear that they would take that action because it suggests that it's not in the public's interest to have access to that information and I think it is in the public's interest."

The school took down the neuroscience department's site at the request of faculty and staff who had privacy concerns, Montgomery said

The University of Colorado also disclosed it was cooperating with police who were looking into whether Holmes used his position as a graduate student to order materials in the potentially deadly booby traps that police said they found in his apartment.

The apartment was booby trapped with jars of liquids, explosives and chemicals that could have killed "whoever entered it," Oates said, noting it would have likely been one of his officers. Investigators spent hours removing the explosive materials Saturday.

Among the dead was a 6-year-old girl and a man who died on his 27th birthday and a day before his wedding anniversary. Families grieved and waited at hospitals, with police reporting 11 people still in critical condition as of Saturday.

While authorities continued to refuse to discuss a possible motive for one of the deadliest mass shootings in recent U.S. history, details about Holmes' background as a student and would-be scientist trickled out.

He had recently withdrawn from the competitive graduate program in neuroscience at the University of Colorado Denver, where he was one of six pre-thesis Ph.D. students at its Neuroscience Program to be funded by a prestigious grant from the National Institutes of Health. The program of 35 students is dedicated to training outstanding neuroscientists and academicians who will make significant contributions to neurobiology, the university said in a statement.

In the first year of the five- to seven-year program, students take classes and complete three, three-month research rotations in the labs of different professors.

Professors who worked with him either did not return calls or declined to comment, saying police and university officials had told them not to speak to the media.

At one point in the year, Holmes was engaged in research about RNA and was to present a paper May 8 about RNA Biomarkers, according to a class schedule. It was unclear if he presented the paper.

Holmes recently took an intense, three-part oral exam that marks the end of the first year. Those who do well continue with their studies and shift to full-time research, while those who don't do well meet with advisers and discuss their options, including retaking the exam.

University officials would not say if he passed, citing privacy concerns.

The university said Holmes gave no reason for his withdrawal, a decision he made in June.

Holmes was not allowed access from the institution after his withdrawal, which was "standard operating procedure" because he was no longer affiliated with the school, Montgomery said. Holmes had no contact with university police, she said.

A resume posted on Monster.com paints a picture of a brilliant young man brimming with potential: He worked as a summer intern at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla in 2006 and mapped the neurons of Zebra finches and studied the flight muscles of hummingbirds while an undergraduate at the University of California, Riverside.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1693376.html

-t

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Again, a snippet to a portion of a post without regard for the post in entirety.
>   You make the accusation that individuals must be out of balance in their belief that this may have been a false flag government operation. However, you have no understanding of the reasoning behind such beliefs (MKUltra) and no desire to understand.


Right. He's trolling.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I have plenty to say about the rest of his post but I'll keep them to myself this time so I don't get more hate dumped on me for disagreeing with people on *completely illogical fantasies*.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm
> 
> Respond to wall of *crazy conspiracy text* or the insult directed at me? I made the right decision I think


So you would rather troll than educate yourself on the case and actually make logical replies?

----------


## erowe1

> The university also took down the website for its graduate neuroscience program on Saturday.


Interesting.

The Wayback Machine has a snapshot of the page from 2 years ago.
http://wayback.archive.org/web/20121...cience/Program

I'm not savvy with these things, but are there other similar tools that could show us what was there a week ago?

I assume people started trying to look there pretty quickly when the news came out Saturday. Some of them must have it in their caches. And somebody of that group must be able to publish the info. Not that there's necessarily anything interesting there.

----------


## phill4paul

> I found this on Reddit today. This is what Jason Alexander from Seinfeld wrote about the shootings.[/url]
> 
> I'm not sure what to think of this. Does he think that liberty is threatened?


  I have no care about what this actor has to say. I'm sure he will throw Obama some ducats.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> They also keep harping(today 22 July) that he wanted to kill police officers with these titty traps, maybe forgetting they already told the press he told them the apartment was rigged almost immediately after his very peaceful capture. Which is it? His actions show he *didn't* want to kill the cops, but the cops are now saying "it is clear" he did.
> 
> I heard this morning that his AR jammed while firing with what sounds like a 100 rd drum mag, and he then" had to switch to a much-less powerful weapon..." ABC News radio 9am local time). I'm assuming they are referring to his alleged Glock .40.
> 
> The 100 rd drum mag is either an amateurish mistake....or a band-aid for untrained hands. Four 30 rd mags would have sufficed for someone trained, and the 100 rd drum increases the likelihood of a malfunction. He never tried to clear it.... in a room full of people focusing on nothing more than getting the $#@! out of there(and not playing hero and not shooting back), i.e. fish in a barrel.
> 
> This may explain his instant surrender, he may not have even known how to load these weapons, maybe it was already done for him beforehand? 
> *
> His weapons/equipment would've cost ~$20k or so. He was on unemployment.*


Uh oh. I'm sure the Official Story Brigade will conveniently ignore that.

----------


## MelissaWV

> Uh oh. I'm sure the Official Story Brigade will conveniently ignore that.


No, it was addressed repeatedly as being an ignorant number.  Some things are not precisely as they are reported, and it just takes a little research to realize that things are wrong on BOTH sides of this.

----------


## bunklocoempire

> I found this on Reddit today. This is what Jason Alexander from Seinfeld wrote about the shootings. What he said that surprised me is in bold. (Warning: Long)
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/tb/wys8n
> 
> I'm not sure what to think of this. *Does he think that liberty is threatened*?


He doesn't seem to understand what it takes to secure liberty in the first place.  He _might_ be able to be taught though. 

Jason Alexander:



> ..These weapons are military weapons. They belong in accountable hands, controlled hands and trained hands. They should not be in the hands of private citizens to be used against police, neighborhood intruders or people who don't agree with you. These are the weapons that maniacs acquire to wreak murder and mayhem on innocents. They are not the same as handguns to help homeowners protect themselves from intruders. They are not the same as hunting rifles or sporting rifles. These weapons are designed for harm and death on big scales...


I would think anyone connected with Hollywood would remember when *these* private citizens might liked to have been prepared with something *more* than "hunting or sporting rifles" -whatever the hell that is.  

Those Koreans look about as organized as my family and neighbors and that's good enough for me.  I wish I had them in my neighborhood equipped with the heavy stuff.

L.A. Riots 1992



Duckman, you can do better.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Colorado Theater Eyewitness Describes Gunman & Possible Accomplice


I thought the official story is that he's a lone nutjob? Lol.

----------


## phill4paul

> Uh oh. I'm sure the Official Story Brigade will conveniently ignore that.


  Honestly, without knowing the manufacturers it is tough to gauge. I'm thinking, depending, it could only run 5k.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> His neighbor said she heard ridiculously loud music, which apparently was left on deliberately while the shooter was about his business.  She went up to his door, she says, knocked, and started to turn the doorknob but figured something was just not right when it was unlocked.


I'm really interested to learn what the song was.

Edit: A quick google search says it was a techno song. I'm no longer interested.

----------


## MelissaWV

> I'm really interested to learn what the song was.
> 
> Edit: A quick google search says it was a techno song. I'm no longer interested.


Yeah that's actually as far as it seemed to get, though I am qualifying that whole part of the story with... she seems really creepy and not 100% bright, so... not sure.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Operation Ajax - declassified
> Operation Gladio - declassified
> Lavon Affair  
> False Flag
> Operation Northwoods - declassified
> 
> 
> Leaked U.S. Army Document Outlines Plan For Re-Education Camps In America
> http://www.infowars.com/leaked-u-s-a...ps-in-america/
> ...


Read all of that ^

*The most dangerous drug in the world: 'Devil's Breath' chemical from Colombia can block free will, wipe memory and even kill*

Scopolamine often blown into faces of victims or added to drinks
Within minutes, victims are like 'zombies' - coherent, but with no free will
Some victims report emptying bank accounts to robbers or helping them pillage own house
Drug is made from borrachero tree, which is common in Colombia

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...52_634x514.jpg


read more here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...free-will.html

----------


## QueenB4Liberty

I don't know why they took down the website program. That makes no sense at all.

----------


## QueenB4Liberty

> Read all of that ^
> 
> *The most dangerous drug in the world: 'Devil's Breath' chemical from Colombia can block free will, wipe memory and even kill*
> 
> Scopolamine often blown into faces of victims or added to drinks
> Within minutes, victims are like 'zombies' - coherent, but with no free will
> Some victims report emptying bank accounts to robbers or helping them pillage own house
> Drug is made from borrachero tree, which is common in Colombia
> 
> ...


Uh, unless someone was constantly drugging him for weeks, that scenario seems highly unlikely.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

Most probably so reporters wouldn't be stalking other members of the program.

Right now the Aurora city council is holding a "kiss our ass" event asking why this happened and the answer is that they banned the very things that would have stopped this event from that theater.  The law abiding followed their dictates and died as a result.  The insane ignored the law/regulation and killed/wounded a lot of people 

Pitchfork and touches time...

-t

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> No, it was addressed repeatedly as being an ignorant number.  Some things are not precisely as they are reported, and it just takes a little research to realize that things are wrong on BOTH sides of this.


I don't remember that. But it has been nearly 70 pages just in this thread.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Honestly, without knowing the manufacturers it is tough to gauge. I'm thinking, depending, it could only run 5k.


I'm interested to see if he really was on unemployment. I don't imagine even 5k being achievable for someone on unemployment.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Yeah that's actually as far as it seemed to get, though I am qualifying that whole part of the story with... she seems really creepy and not 100% bright, so... not sure.


The neighbor? The little bit I read on it said some feeling told her not to enter the home. That doesn't require intelligence, but at least she has the functioning synapses to listen to it.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Uh, unless someone was constantly drugging him for weeks, that scenario seems highly unlikely.


The discussion hasn't just been about this case, it has been about others involving people who were likely under some sort of mind control. This drug proves it is achievable.

----------


## James Madison

> ...These weapons are military weapons. They belong in *accountable* hands, *controlled* hands and trained hands.


Well that rules out the military...




> They should not be in the hands of private citizens to be used against police, neighborhood intruders or people who don't agree with you.


Ah, yes, "private citizens", a breed of mundane distinctly inferior to the servants of government. 




> These are the weapons that maniacs acquire to wreak murder and mayhem on innocents.


Yep, and that's why they shouldn't be given to law-abiding mundanes. I mean, criminals will respect the law, right? They won't try to obtain them illegally or....uh oh.....what if a cop lost his marbles and decides to open fire on a crowd (like what happened today in Anaheim)? Wait, that's not a problem. Cops are just "heroes" who happen to be "under a lot of stress". All those people murdered in botched midnight drug raids deserved to die for not worshipping their masters.




> They are not the same as handguns to help homeowners protect themselves from intruders.


Unless those intruders are cops armed with military-grade rifles....then you can't protect yourself.



> They are not the same as hunting rifles or sporting rifles. *These weapons are designed for harm and death on big scales*...


Fitting they should only be available for government-licensed gods. After all, who's better at 'harm and death on big scales' than the state (police and military).

Does anybody find it odd that people are bitching about civilian ownership of assault rifles yet are not concerned with a government that holds over 1,000 NUCLEAR WEAPONS, VX NERVE GAS, and 100% KILL BIOWEAPONS?!

----------


## QueenB4Liberty

> The discussion hasn't just been about this case, it has been about others involving people who were likely under some sort of mind control. This drug proves it is achievable.


That's true. And I guess if you were drugged everyday with it, or by a big enough dose, you could be capable of something like this guy did. That documentary was freaky.

----------


## AuH20

> He doesn't seem to understand what it takes to secure liberty in the first place.  He _might_ be able to be taught though. 
> 
> Jason Alexander:
> 
> 
> I would think anyone connected with Hollywood would remember when *these* private citizens might liked to have been prepared with something *more* than "hunting or sporting rifles" -whatever the hell that is.  
> 
> Those Koreans look about as organized as my family and neighbors and that's good enough for me.  I wish I had them in my neighborhood equipped with the heavy stuff.
> 
> ...


Why is it always the jewish liberal to be the gullible one?? I mean Jason Alexander just has to examine what happened in the Holocaust to understand how important full spectrum gun ownership is.

----------


## AuH20

2nd person of interest:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz21PLH8HF3

----------


## Anti Federalist

> AURORA, Colo.  New details about the midnight-movie shooting rampage here suggest that the death toll could have been even worse, as the gunmans semiautomatic assault rifle jammed and prevented him from emptying a 100-round clip of ammunition


What the hell is a semi automatic "assault weapon" and a 100 round "clip".

Never heard of 'em.

----------


## Danke

> What the hell is a semi automatic "assault weapon" and a 100 round "clip".
> 
> Never heard of 'em.


Magazine?

100 round ones exist.

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> What the hell is a semi automatic "assault weapon" and a 100 round "clip".
> 
> Never heard of 'em.


A "assault weapon" is a legal fiction created by Congress for any firearm that "looks evil" or is bases on a military design.

A 100 round "clip" is liberalese for a magazine.  Just as an AK-47 be anything ranging from a bolt action .22 caliber rifle, a glock handgun to a pea shooter.  You must pardon these poor, ignorant liberal journalists.  They have a deficient language.

-t

----------


## tangent4ronpaul

> 2nd person of interest:
> 
> http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz21PLH8HF3


hmmm...

Sources tell Justin Joseph someone made either a call or a text from the person of interest's phone threatening violence if James Egan Holmes was not released from jail. That call prompted police to issue an alert to find and detain him.

Sources also say a picture of Holmes with red hair on an adult website is what Egan looked like when he was arrested. 

...

Neighbors say he and his roommate left their home hours before the massacre.  They haven't seen him since.

It sounds like law enforcement has a pretty good idea that this "person of interest" either knows something or, considering the fire power they've surrounded his apartment with, that he may have been an active participant in the massacre.

Two crazies? Holmes may have been  disturbed but what's this other guy's excuse, if indeed he had something to do with the massacre?

-t

----------


## Bosco Warden

I didnt read this whole post, and this is related in a round about sort of way, if this is going to be used for the UN Gun treaty, here is a study done coming our of Australia after they banned guns.

For anyone who blog's, on other forum's or some other medium I havent mentioned. 

*AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN*




> It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer.  In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime.  In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
> 
> Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
> 
> In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
> Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
> Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
> Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
> 
> ...


http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

----------


## Weston White

> Someone that could not clear a jam in a second would likely not be able to change magazines.
> (mechanically inept)
> 
> Too many aspects of this make no logical sense,, therefore the illogical  must be considered.


_Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth._ - Sherlock Holmes, _A Scandal in Bohemia_

----------


## Anti Federalist

> Magazine?
> 
> 100 round ones exist.





> A "assault weapon" is a legal fiction created by Congress for any firearm that "looks evil" or is bases on a military design.
> 
> A 100 round "clip" is liberalese for a magazine.  Just as an AK-47 be anything ranging from a bolt action .22 caliber rifle, a glock handgun to a pea shooter.  You must pardon these poor, ignorant liberal journalists.  They have a deficient language.
> 
> -t

----------


## pacelli

> What the hell is a semi automatic "assault weapon" and a 100 round "clip".
> 
> Never heard of 'em.


Looks like a 30 rounder, not a drum:

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Someone that could not clear a jam in a second would likely not be able to change magazines.
> (mechanically inept)
> 
> Too many aspects of this make no logical sense,, therefore the illogical  must be considered.


Because someone with no firearm experience couldn't clear a jam in a crowded movie theater full of chaos and screaming people rushing for the exits then I must consider the illogical? Sure




> Right. He's trolling.


Why is it that only the people who think this was a false flag believe I'm trolling and everyone else thinks I'm just disagreeing with you because you have no evidence to back up your theory?

----------


## Galileo Galilei

*Is it possible that James Holmes was set up? Think about this:*

    James Holmes goes out Tuesday night drinking and someone doses him. They do it early Wed morning so they have time in his apartment to set up those elaborate traps (how would James have known how to construct those anyway?)

    They keep him drugged and off the radar till Thursday night when they go to the theater. They make sure to park in that spot, right next to the exit of the theater.

    The assailant goes in, fakes the phone call, comes out, goes to the car where James is still drugged, gets the gear on, goes in and attacks the innocent civilians.

    Then the assailant comes out the exit door, leans against it while dropping the gun and removing almost all of his gear with the exception of the mask.

    He runs past the car dropping the gear next to it in a heap, opens the door with James inside, tosses the guns into the car, the shotgun has been there all along, and goes straight down the length of the building toward the corner, toward the camera, drops his mask directly under the camera, and heads off to the nearby street where a car is waiting (cruising slowly) to pick him up.

    Holmes is reported to have been “meek” when arrested. This might also explain why he wasn’t shot by police… he was incapacitated, incoherent, or generally not a threat.

    Holmes, who is being held under suicide watch in solitary confinement, remained in his murderous “Joker” persona after his arrival, a jailhouse worker told the Daily News.“He thinks he’s acting in a movie,” a prison employee told the Daily News.

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012...-they-related/

----------


## phill4paul

> 2nd person of interest:
> 
> http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz21PLH8HF3



  Thanks for posting. This would differ from the 'official' story line and will be interested to see if it pans out.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

*We are being set up. From Aurora “massacre” (media contradictions) now to “warnings” of a Terrorist attack at the Olympics. Major, Serious- questions……*

Many are questioning how a student who did not have much money was able to afford over $20,000 of arms and ammunition. Besides how he had the sophisticated knowledge to put together the type of booby traps they are saying was in his apartment.

No one saw his face in the theater as it was covered up.  Also it seems he is not right in the mind as those who are in the prison right now are saying that he is acting like he is in the movie constantly and he is totally nuts.

My question is, how could someone like that function enough to put together all those things that were needed to plan the attack?  Besides if this was planned for months and he was a crazed person planning it, how come he did not act completely crazed in public?    He would have acted nuts walking down the street if he was anything like they are saying he is in jail right  now.  Another question, how did he live in the apartment that was being booby trapped and not accidentally set anything off?

Another question:  Has anyone asked those that live at the apartments if UPS and Fed Ex and the USPS were constantly delivering packages to his apartment?  The media is claiming he purchased all the ammunition over the internet: 6000 rounds of it, besides his other “killing” gear. 

**as I was writing this the media is saying he had 90 packages delivered by UPS to his “office”, but they are saying he was not working at the time and he had dropped out of school.  So…. where was this “office” that he had things delivered to, if not his apartment?  The media is not saying where this “office” was… only delivered to his “office.”****

This does not compute!  We are hearing he was on unemployment… now we are hearing packages delivered to some office!  They are getting their stories mixed up…. trying to set it up, yet contradictions are taking place.

There are witnesses who are saying that someone opened the emergency exit and let the gunman in. 

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.co...estions/18146/

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> *Is it possible that James Holmes was set up? Think about this:*
> 
>     James Holmes goes out Tuesday night drinking and someone doses him. They do it early Wed morning so they have time in his apartment to set up those elaborate traps (how would James have known how to construct those anyway?)
> 
>     They keep him drugged and off the radar till Thursday night when they go to the theater. They make sure to park in that spot, right next to the exit of the theater.
> 
>     The assailant goes in, fakes the phone call, comes out, goes to the car where James is still drugged, gets the gear on, goes in and attacks the innocent civilians.
> 
>     Then the assailant comes out the exit door, leans against it while dropping the gun and removing almost all of his gear with the exception of the mask.
> ...


Seriously?

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Seriously?


Yes, read the article.  Follow the bloody footprints.

----------


## phill4paul

> *Is it possible that James Holmes was set up? Think about this:*
> 
>     James Holmes goes out Tuesday night drinking and someone doses him. They do it early Wed morning so they have time in his apartment to set up those elaborate traps (how would James have known how to construct those anyway?)
> 
>     They keep him drugged and off the radar till Thursday night when they go to the theater. They make sure to park in that spot, right next to the exit of the theater.
> 
>     The assailant goes in, fakes the phone call, comes out, goes to the car where James is still drugged, gets the gear on, goes in and attacks the innocent civilians.
> 
>     Then the assailant comes out the exit door, leans against it while dropping the gun and removing almost all of his gear with the exception of the mask.
> ...


  Interesting. Thanks for posting.

----------


## phill4paul

> Seriously?


  Let's see. Someone writes a thought provoking article which raises some interesting points and you immediately attack it (or them). Not dispute it. Attack it. S.O.P.

----------


## phill4paul

> 2nd person of interest:
> 
> http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz21PLH8HF3


  It would seem that this second 'person of interest' has already been questioned.




> Authorities started looking for this person Friday and tracked him down yesterday afternoon. According to The Denver Channel, police interviewed him and, in doing so, have learned more information about Holmes. Following the interview, Aurora police released a statement saying that while this individual was a person of interest, there is no reason to believe that he is involved.




http://www.mediaite.com/online/polic...investigation/

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Yes, read the article.  Follow the bloody footprints.


If I get rid of all the obvious flaws in that scenario then it seems plausible but highly unlikely.

Anyway, how come every time a false flag happens, they always leave enough evidence to let all the internet gurus out there know it was them?

----------


## specsaregood

> If I get rid of all the obvious flaws in that scenario then it seems plausible but highly unlikely.
> 
> Anyway, how come every time a false flag happens, they always leave enough evidence to let all the internet gurus out there know it was them?


Because the government is inept!  silly.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

If he was drugged all the time and someone else set up the traps then how did he know about them when he told the arresting officers his apartment was rigged?

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> If I get rid of all the obvious flaws in that scenario then it seems plausible but highly unlikely.
> 
> Anyway, how come every time a false flag happens, they always leave enough evidence to let all the internet gurus out there know it was them?


Some people have a death wish they just wanna get caught.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Some people have a death wish they just wanna get caught.


Either the government is completely inept or they are extremely powerful and efficient. You can't have it both ways

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> Either the government is completely inept or they are extremely powerful and efficient. You can't have it both ways


You want it both ways.  James Holmes was incredibly efficient, then gave himself up.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> You want it both ways.  James Holmes was incredibly efficient, then gave himself up.


So your argument is that because he gave himself up (while he was unarmed since the other Glock was in the car and he was standing outside of it) when faced with LEO carrying guns that he must have been a patsy?

----------


## phill4paul

> So your argument is that because he gave himself up (while he was unarmed since the other Glock was in the car and he was standing outside of it) when faced with LEO carrying guns that he must have been a patsy?


  Why would he place the gas mask at the end of the walk then return to the vehicle as opposed to going to the car first and re-arming himself? Also, are you sure that he was unarmed? What about the other handgun? Reported is that the shotgun was left on the floor in the theatre and the rifle by the door. I've not heard what happened with the other handgun.

----------


## Galileo Galilei

> So your argument is that because he gave himself up (while he was unarmed since the other Glock was in the car and he was standing outside of it) when faced with LEO carrying guns that he must have been a patsy?


The government has a mental illness.  I don't need to explain their motives because they are crazy.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Why would he place the gas mask at the end of the walk then return to the vehicle as opposed to going to the car first and re-arming himself? Also, are you sure that he was unarmed? What about the other handgun? Reported is that the shotgun was left on the floor in the theatre and the rifle by the door. I've not heard what happened with the other handgun.


Reports say he used the rifle, shotgun, and one Glock inside of the theater and he had one in his car.




> The government has a mental illness.  I don't need to explain their motives because they are crazy.


Except it wasn't the government who shot up a movie theater in Aurora, CO.

----------


## JK/SEA

> Except it wasn't the government who shot up a movie theater in Aurora, CO.


proof?

----------


## Ronulus

I heard on the radio this morning that despite reports of two people being involved and witnesses saying that another person was seen. They said the police were content with having the lone wolf.

----------


## JK/SEA

> I heard on the radio this morning that despite reports of two people being involved and witnesses saying that another person was seen. They said the police were content with having the lone wolf.


yep...heard the Police Chief completely denounce the idea of anyone else being involved....there ya go...

Investigation should be wrapped up in a few days, and WTC 7 fell because of that bird that landed on the roof.

----------


## Ronulus

> yep...heard the Police Chief completely denounce the idea of anyone else being involved....there ya go...
> 
> Investigation should be wrapped up in a few days, and WTC 7 fell because of that bird that landed on the roof.


Makes it sound way more suspicious to me when they say they aren't going to even look into another person being involved when there are reports and witnesses that stated more than one person.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> So your argument is that because he gave himself up (while he was unarmed since the other Glock was in the car and he was standing outside of it) when faced with LEO carrying guns that he must have been a patsy?





> Why would he place the gas mask at the end of the walk then return to the vehicle as opposed to going to the car first and re-arming himself? Also, are you sure that he was unarmed? What about the other handgun? Reported is that the shotgun was left on the floor in the theatre and the rifle by the door. I've not heard what happened with the other handgun.





> Reports say he used the rifle, shotgun, and one Glock inside of the theater and he had one in his car.
> 
> 
> 
> Except it wasn't the government who shot up a movie theater in Aurora, CO.


I've been following all of this pretty closely. Lots of questions for me about the surrender/capture. 

Yesterday on Face the Nation, Chief Oates said this:


"Initial police accounts said he surrendered without incident to officers who found him at his car behind the theater complex. But Oates, in an interview on CBSs Face the Nation on Sunday, described a more complicated scene in the minutes after the shooting. *He said police arriving at the scene might have mistaken Holmes for a SWAT officer.* He was allegedly dressed in black ballistic gear, including a helmet, a throat guard, a vest, leggings and gloves.

Oates said a piece of equipment in Holmess elaborate gear  he would not specify which piece  struck one of the responding officers as irregular. The officer questioned Holmes. Oates did not describe the exchange, only the result: Holmes was arrested."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...N2W_print.html

And in Face the Nation:


"As Holmes was dressed in armor similar to SWAT team members, *Oates said he is "so proud" of two officers who spotted part of Holmes' costume that differs from what a SWAT team member would be wearing*. "So kudos to my two cops who grabbed this guy and that sharp observation that they made immediately that led them to suspect him as being the suspect," Oates said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162...in;ftnLeadHero

So let me get this straight. After shooting up the theater, Holmes was intermingling with cops outside and was in close enough proximity to the officers to be mistaken for SWAT? Was he trying to blend in like SWAT? Were there other SWAT officers in tactical gear? 

The whole surrender/capture and confession of boobytrapped apartment has bothered me. This scenario of being spotted and challenged by cops doesn't add up to me. When 911 is called, the 911 operator will generally ask for a description of the shooter so that description can be relayed to responding officers........With that said, these cops who spotted him should've already been aware of his attire......Oates description doesn't pass the smell test here. 

By the way, just watched Holmes initial court appearance. The guy looks confused, spaced out, sleepy, and completely out of it!!!

----------


## Revolution9

> By the way, just watched Holmes initial court appearance. The guy looks confused, spaced out, sleepy, and completely out of it!!!


His best buddy says no way he did it. His first thought was this was a scam. This is probably the person who knew James Holmes the best and claimed he was a happy guy. FBI had a May bulletin to watch out for theatre shootings like this and tried to scrub it after this event.

Rev9

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> His best buddy says no way he did it. His first thought was this was a scam. This is probably the person who knew James Holmes the best and claimed he was a happy guy. FBI had a May bulletin to watch out for theatre shootings like this and tried to scrub it after this event.
> 
> Rev9


The Orange Haired guy I just watched on TV at his court appearance looks like a Manchurian Candidate to me.......

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> His best buddy says no way he did it. His first thought was this was a scam. This is probably the person who knew James Holmes the best and claimed he was a happy guy. FBI had a May bulletin to watch out for theatre shootings like this and tried to scrub it after this event.
> 
> Rev9





> They both attended undergraduate school at the University of California, Riverside, *where they saw each* *other once a week* to watch the TV show "Lost."





> Duong *last saw Holmes in December* when they met for dinner in Los Angeles and saw a movie together.





> "*I had one college class with him*, and he didn't even have to take notes or anything. He would just show up to class, sit there, and around test time he would always get an 'A,'" said Duong, 24.


They sure do sound like best friends don't they?

----------


## Weston White

That guy definitely looks like he has been drugged out of his mind; it looks like he was just wheeled out of the infirmary at the local insane asylum right after receiving his lithium injection.  Also is that normal to be read your rights while being indicted?  Oh and he is no longer talking to the police or prosecutors, most likely because he is so drugged he probably doesn't even realize that they are there.  The entire event is utter BS, especially with consideration to the new missing roommate information being made public.

Joker Turns Zombie

----------


## Weston White

> They sure do sound like best friends don't they?


Considering that they are both full time college students (now apparently) living in different states, what in the hell do you expect, really? What is it that you expect from their friendship/relationship to satisfy your assertions?  For them to be literal bunk-mates?

----------


## Weston White

> Why is it that only the people who think this was a false flag believe I'm trolling and everyone else thinks I'm just disagreeing with you because you have no evidence to back up your theory?


Because all of the evidence that you call for is blatantly staring you right in your face.  You simply need to actually open your eyelids and accept what is the reality of the truth being presented to you.

----------


## donnay

> The Orange Haired guy I just watched on TV at his court appearance looks like a Manchurian Candidate to me.......




2 minutes of hate

----------


## Weston White

Say DerailingDaTrain, try explaining this, yet another same day coincidence away, about the government's newest "bozo patsy": 




> *Real life shooting imitates training exercise at Parker medical school*
> The tragedy that played out in an Aurora movie theater Friday was *ironically paralleled as a classroom learning experience in a medical school in Parker the same day.*
> 
> Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine is in the middle of holding specialized classes in disaster life support for 150 second-year medical students. Along with response to natural disasters like hurricanes and floods and terrorist attacks, one of the scenarios being used to train the students is how to respond if a shooter fires at people in a movie theater and also uses a bomb in the attack.
> 
> "The irony is amazing, just amazing," said Rocky Vista Dean Dr. Bruce Dubin.
> 
> He said emergency specialist physicians from Parkland Hospital in Dallas as well as from several other emergency programs around the country are teaching the Advanced Disaster Life Support Training. Rocky Vista is the only medical school in the nation to make that training a part of the curriculum.
> 
> ...

----------


## Weston White

Here is the FBI memo from May 2012: DHS/FBI - ROLL CALL RELEASE

----------


## georgiaboy

> 


looks like a failed attempt at a Johnny Rotten look to me.

----------


## mac_hine

Aurora Massacre: What Does the Location of the Gas Mask Tell Us? What About Security Cameras? Are They Related?

As I was scanning through a number of heart breaking photos from the aftermath of the Dark Knight massacre in Aurora Co. this morning, I noticed something very interesting; actually a couple of interesting things stood out.Primarily I noticed that the gas mask was found a long way away from where James Holmes was arrested and the other equipment was found. I also think I found an image of a security camera mounted on the back of the theater pointing down toward where the car was parked and the theater exit was. And as luck would have it, that is the exact same location the gas mask was found as if the assailant traveled the length of the building and dropped the mask once he was out of the view of the camera.

I have done my best to compile photos and the layout of the scene at the back of the theater for your consideration.

——— The first was the fact that early reports had claimed the shooter was still wearing his equipment when the cops first found him next to his car and he was still carrying all of his weapons except for one Glock 40 which was found in his car. This is an important aspect of the case because how else would they have known he was the shooter amid all that chaos. Also interesting is the fact that they didn’t just shoot the guy. He was apparently still carrying an assault rifle and a shotgun and decked out in tactical armor… so how did he just end up surrendering “meekly” as some reports claim?

The answer is simple: he wasn’t carrying the guns and he wasn’t still wearing the armor. So, how did they know they had the right guy?

    “Holmes was apprehended within minutes of the 12:39 a.m. shooting at his car behind the theater, where police found him in full riot gear and carrying three weapons, including an AR-15 assault rifle, which can hold upwards of 100 rounds, a Remington 12-gauge shotgun, and a .40 Glock handgun. A fourth handgun was found in the vehicle.” ABC News

But this report flies in the face of the evidence at the scene and the vast number of police photos taken.

Read more... http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012...-they-related/

----------


## phill4paul

> Reports say he used the rifle, shotgun, and one Glock inside of the theater and he had one in his car.


  Do these reports say that he was not carrying the Glock when police arrived? And what about the placement of the gas mask opposed to the crime scene layout?
  I mean, honestly, you can be shot for something as simple as contempt of cop. And yet I'm to believe that cops show up, see someone in body armor w/ weapons and don't rain fire on him?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Yes, read the article.  Follow the bloody footprints.


He has yet to educate himself on this case.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Seriously?


And you wonder why you're being called a troll in this thread? It's because all you have done in this thread is troll.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Reports say he used the rifle, shotgun, and one Glock inside of the theater and he had one in his car.
> 
> 
> 
> *Except it wasn't the government who shot up a movie theater in Aurora, CO.*


Where's your proof?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I heard on the radio this morning that despite reports of two people being involved and witnesses saying that another person was seen. They said the police were content with having the lone wolf.


This is one of the things that bothers me. We have several accounts of there being another person involved yet the police are fine with saying it was a lone wolf. Hasn't the government been warning us since last year that we would see "lone wolf" attacks?

----------


## Nickels

> Where's your proof?



you want proof that there wasn't government involved?

----------


## Nickels

> This is one of the things that bothers me. We have several accounts of there being another person involved yet the police are fine with saying it was a lone wolf. Hasn't the government been warning us since last year that we would see "lone wolf" attacks?


Government warned us there would be lone wolf attacks, therefore this must not be one?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> *Is it possible that James Holmes was set up? Think about this:*
> 
>     James Holmes goes out Tuesday night drinking and someone doses him. They do it early Wed morning so they have time in his apartment to set up those elaborate traps (how would James have known how to construct those anyway?)
> 
>     They keep him drugged and off the radar till Thursday night when they go to the theater. They make sure to park in that spot, right next to the exit of the theater.
> 
>     The assailant goes in, fakes the phone call, comes out, goes to the car where James is still drugged, gets the gear on, goes in and attacks the innocent civilians.
> 
>     Then the assailant comes out the exit door, leans against it while dropping the gun and removing almost all of his gear with the exception of the mask.
> ...


This makes sense to me. They found him in his car and he peacefully surrendered after going on a killing spree, which makes no sense at all. So yeah, someone else doing it and then planting the evidence on him makes alot more sense.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I've been following all of this pretty closely. Lots of questions for me about the surrender/capture. 
> 
> Yesterday on Face the Nation, Chief Oates said this:
> 
> 
> "Initial police accounts said he surrendered without incident to officers who found him at his car behind the theater complex. But Oates, in an interview on CBSs Face the Nation on Sunday, described a more complicated scene in the minutes after the shooting. *He said police arriving at the scene might have mistaken Holmes for a SWAT officer.* He was allegedly dressed in black ballistic gear, including a helmet, a throat guard, a vest, leggings and gloves.
> 
> Oates said a piece of equipment in Holmess elaborate gear  he would not specify which piece  struck one of the responding officers as irregular. The officer questioned Holmes. Oates did not describe the exchange, only the result: Holmes was arrested."
> 
> ...


Exactly how someone on mind control drugs would look.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> His best buddy says no way he did it. His first thought was this was a scam. This is probably the person who knew James Holmes the best and claimed he was a happy guy. *FBI had a May bulletin to watch out for theatre shootings like this and tried to scrub it after this event.*
> 
> Rev9


Why would they scrub it if this wasn't a false flag?

----------


## low preference guy

> They found him in his car and he peacefully surrendered after going on a killing spree, which makes no sense at all.


i don't see how that would not make sense. whoever committed the crime probably does not care about living. moreover, i think there's a possibility these killings are a form of suicide, where they start the mechanism by which capital punishment will take their lives.

----------


## phill4paul

> i don't see how that would not make sense. whoever committed the crime probably does not care about living. moreover, i think there's a possibility these killings are a form of suicide, where they start the mechanism by which capital punishment will take their lives.


  If suicide was the end game then why the body armour and the immediate surrender. If someone is wanting suicide then suicide by cop is certainly an easy out.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> That guy definitely looks like he has been drugged out of his mind; it looks like he was just wheeled out of the infirmary at the local insane asylum right after receiving his lithium injection.  Also is that normal to be read your rights while being indicted?  Oh and he is no longer talking to the police or prosecutors, most likely because he is so drugged he probably doesn't even realize that they are there.  The entire event is utter BS, especially with consideration to the new missing roommate information being made public.
> 
> Joker Turns Zombie


He looks like he is still drugged.

----------


## low preference guy

> If suicide was the end game then why the body armour and the immediate surrender.


to kill more people before going. a person who commits suicide might want to die in a very specific way.

----------


## Nickels

> i don't see how that would not make sense. whoever committed the crime probably does not care about living. moreover, i think there's a possibility these killings are a form of suicide, where they start the mechanism by which capital punishment will take their lives.


exactly, but don't tell that to somebody who believes it's impossible for somebody to want suicide.

----------


## Nickels

> to kill more people before going. a person who commits suicide might want to die in a very specific way.


exactly, the old "I'm gonna be gone, might as well take some with me" attitude. This is why I don't understand why people think suiciders are "selfish", what have they to gain when they stop caring about their own lives? We should be thankful they don't take others with them which they don't have any problem doing. (I am not assuming he is suicidal, just that if he is, it's easily like this)

----------


## Nickels

> If suicide was the end game then why the body armour and the immediate surrender. If someone is wanting suicide then suicide by cop is certainly an easy out.


maybe he wants his last show to be in court.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

*Real life shooting imitates training exercise at Parker medical school*


The tragedy that played out in an Aurora movie theater Friday was ironically paralleled as a classroom learning experience in a medical school in Parker the same day.
Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine is in the middle of holding specialized classes in disaster life support for 150 second-year medical students. Along with response to natural disasters like hurricanes and floods and terrorist attacks, one of the scenarios being used to train the students is how to respond if a shooter fires at people in a movie theater and also uses a bomb in the attack.
"The irony is amazing, just amazing," said Rocky Vista Dean Dr. Bruce Dubin.
He said emergency specialist physicians from Parkland Hospital in Dallas as well as from several other emergency programs around the country are teaching the Advanced Disaster Life Support Training. Rocky Vista is the only medical school in the nation to make that training a part of the curriculum.
"They are trained to respond in every type of disaster," Dubin said.
The shootings in Aurora were incorporated into the teaching Friday, Dubin said.
"It made these medical students very aware that these kinds of things can happen anywhere," he said. "The events of this tragedy have helped to drive that home."


Read more: Real life shooting imitates training exercise at Parker medical school - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21...#ixzz21TgtosnF
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

----------


## phill4paul

> to kill more people before going. a person who commits suicide might want to die in a very specific way.


  Possible. I still would like to know the full story of how he was taken into custody. As I have mentioned he was dressed up for death by cop. 

  And THIS is the police department we are talking about...

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> you want proof that there wasn't government involved?


When he says it as if he is 100% sure, as if he was an eye witness, yes.




> Government warned us there would be lone wolf attacks, therefore this must not be one?


They seem to be trying real hard to make this look like a lone wolf attack. There are several accounts of there being more than one shooter.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> i don't see how that would not make sense. whoever committed the crime probably does not care about living. moreover, i think there's a possibility these killings are a form of suicide, where they start the mechanism by which capital punishment will take their lives.


Whoever committed the crime probably doesn't care about living? You would think someone that did this would suicide by cop in a shootout with the police instead of peacefully surrendering. That's my opinion anyway.

----------


## Revolution9

> Government warned us there would be lone wolf attacks, therefore this must not be one?


That is not the correct tangent of analysis to follow.  The correct parsing of the statement is that they were setting up the scenario and tone in advance to ensure they could call this a lone wolf. Yet his best buddy says no way..James didn't do this.."it's a scam". To follow up on the original FBI warning a month or some odd later, known Mossad asset and jewish mogul progeny Adam Gaddan, playing the part of Al-Queda pirahnaswami in his intel agency acclaimed role demanded that terrorists strike at the heart of the Zionists by bombing malls and theatres..yeah..right..the heart of the Zionists my royal golden ass. The Mossad could have gotten at the patsy as early as 08 when he was an in room camp counselor for Jewish Big Brothers and Sisters of LA.

Rev9

----------


## Weston White

This is getting stranger and stranger, ABC now has a video of him from when he was 18-years old (he is now 24), in the video he is giving a presentation at a summer camp for something (?), where he stated: 




> "Over the course of the summer, I've been working with a temporal illusion.  It's an illusion that allows you to change the past, ..."


Also shouldn't the judge be concerned that he is drugged-up, so much so that his attorney had to state "yes" for him when he was asked if he understood his rights, which is also another issue that needs to be addressed by the court.  Otherwise this is nothing more than a tribunal for the enjoyment of the public.  Also, his parents are not being cooperative with the police investigation or with the media; and also that his attorney did not arrange for a cleanup of his appearance.

* Per Wikipedia, _temporal illusion_ is referred to as _time perception_ and pertains to neuroscience, a subject that he has been majoring in.

See: http://abcnews.go.com/US/colorado-sh...7#.UA2uaKPSjCY

----------


## Revolution9

> Possible. I still would like to know the full story of how he was taken into custody. As I have mentioned he was dressed up for death by cop. 
> 
>   And THIS is the police department we are talking about...


I thought they spotted him in body armor yet this is obviously as they are arresting him.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> i don't see how that would not make sense. whoever committed the crime probably does not care about living. moreover, i think there's a possibility these killings are a form of suicide, where they start the mechanism by which capital punishment will take their lives.


His best pal described him a happy two days prior to the event. He says it is a scam.

Rev9

----------


## phill4paul

> I thought they spotted him in body armor yet this is obviously as they are arresting him.
> 
> Rev9


  This is one of the 40 detained citizens at a roadblock in a robbery suspect search last month in Aurora. It does not seem these guy play around with an obviously unarmed teen. It leaves me with little doubt what would happen if they were confronted by someone in body armour and weapons.

----------


## Weston White

Also the City of Aurora was named after the Roman Goddess (noting that the incident took place after midnight, while not near dawn per se, but that is probably about the latest showing available for movies until nearing afternoon time the following day):

"In Roman mythology, Aurora, the goddess of the dawn, renews herself every morning and flies across the sky, announcing the arrival of the sun."

Further noting that this could be an inference of the theory of _temporal illusion_ (so as to alter the past) that he had stated he had been working on.

----------


## low preference guy

> His best pal described him a happy two days prior to the event. He says it is a scam.


could be as well. i was arguing against absolutely ruling out a different possibility.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> could be as well. i was arguing against absolutely ruling out a different possibility.


I've learned to never absolutely rule anything out.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> That is not the correct tangent of analysis to follow.  The correct parsing of the statement is that they were setting up the scenario and tone in advance to ensure they could call this a lone wolf. Yet his best buddy says no way..James didn't do this.."it's a scam". To follow up on the original FBI warning a month or some odd later, known Mossad asset and jewish mogul progeny Adam Gaddan, playing the part of Al-Queda pirahnaswami in his intel agency acclaimed role demanded that terrorists strike at the heart of the Zionists by bombing malls and theatres..yeah..right..the heart of the Zionists my royal golden ass. The Mossad could have gotten at the patsy as early as 08 when he was an in room camp counselor for Jewish Big Brothers and Sisters of LA.
> 
> Rev9


So now it was the jews eh?

That's even more far-fetched than thinking our government planned it.




> He looks like he is still drugged.


The snarling and spitting inmate rambling about being the Joker was indeed probably sedated before going to court.




> He has yet to educate himself on this case.


I've read every bit of info about this case since it happened including the BS you guys keep posting. You can keep believing I'm just uninformed, a troll, or a plant as long as you like though.




> Where's your proof?


Where is your proof this is a false flag? It seems there are mountains of evidence to prove he is guilty and none to prove he is a patsy other than Alex Jones saying he was less than 24 hours after it happened.




> Considering that they are both full time college students (now apparently) living in different states, what in the hell do you expect, really? What is it that you expect from their friendship/relationship to satisfy your assertions?  For them to be literal bunk-mates?


If the last time you had contact with your best friend is December of last year then you are barely acquaintances.

----------


## Weston White

> The snarling and spitting inmate rambling about being the Joker was indeed probably sedated before going to court.


And what is wrong with just using a spit-shield and extra body restraints, or even doing a video broadcast if he remains out of control while in the courtroom?  How can one be ensured due process when they are torpid?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> And what is wrong with just using a spit-shield and extra body restraints, or even doing a video broadcast if he remains out of control while in the courtroom?  How can one be ensured due process when they are torpid?


I don't know but I'm sure you will add that to your ant hill of evidence and consider it definitive proof that he didn't do it.

----------


## pcosmar

> I thought they spotted him in body armor yet this is obviously as they are arresting him.
> 
> Rev9


Nope but that is the same police dept.
There they are assaulting unarmed and innocent citizens.

Happened very recently.. and was in nationwide news.
and everybody forgot about it already,, now they are all professional heroes of the day.

----------


## Revolution9

> maybe he wants his last show to be in court.


I don't think he knows what is going on and hasn't since earlier in that day when he was drugged. Scopalamine and the mere suggestion he was acting in a movie would be enough to make him believe that was reality. I note his tshirt does not appear to have been compressed under strapped on gear either.

Rev9

----------


## Weston White

> I don't know but I'm sure you will add that to your ant hill of evidence and consider it definitive proof that he didn't do it.


The question as to if he (willfully) "did it" or not is merely one aspect in the fold.  The real dirty-rub is, was the federal government (including a government funded or sponsored project) involved in this tragedy and if so to what degree.

----------


## Nickels

> I don't think he knows what is going on and hasn't since earlier in that day when he was drugged. Scopalamine and the mere suggestion he was acting in a movie would be enough to make him believe that was reality. I note his tshirt does not appear to have been compressed under strapped on gear either.
> 
> Rev9


this one?
http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shir...s-saves-lives/

----------


## Revolution9

> So now it was the jews eh?
> 
> That's even more far-fetched than thinking our government planned it.


Explain away known Mossad asset Adam Kaddan calling for this a couple of weeks back pretending to be an al-queda pirahnaswami. You can't. So you will play the worn out anti-semite card like that means $#@! in a handbag to me or a greater and greater percentage of America who do not perceive that $#@!ty little country and their vampirish intel agency and killers as an ally like they claim.. Facts are facts and all you got is a pea shooter full of ad hominem bull$#@! to fire.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> this one?
> http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shir...s-saves-lives/


No. The green one in the arrest moment photo.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> could be as well. i was arguing against absolutely ruling out a different possibility.


There is a video of the guy stating it on camera the morning after. Good looking kinda goofy college kid with oriental blood. You can look at him and know he is too nerdy to lie and was probably a video game player with James from my impression of his personal character. His last talk with him was the day before the tragedy.

Rev9

----------


## phill4paul

More malreporting...




> "This statement is to clarify a statement made by ABC media. I was awakened by a call from a reporter by ABC on July 20 about 5:45 in the morning. I did not know anything about a shooting in Aurora at that time," Holmes said in a statement this afternoon, read to the national press by attorney Lisa Damiani. "He asked if I was Arlene Holmes and if my son was James Holmes who lives in Aurora, Colorado. _I answered yes, you have the right person._ *I was referring to myself*."
> 
>   If Arlene Holmes' latest statement is true, it means that she did not tell ABC News her son was likely the alleged culprit, calling into question the reporting of a network that has already been marred by one inaccuracy.


 http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...er-129835.html

 So, any speculation that his mother knew that he was having mental problems is eroded.

----------


## Philhelm

> More malreporting...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...er-129835.html
> 
>  So, any speculation that his mother knew that he was having mental problems is eroded.


+1 Rep.  Thank you, I knew that there was some misinformation with the whole "You've got the right person" quote.  Everyone was clamoring that she knew that her son was responsible without any context given to the quote.  Ugh!

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> The question as to if he (willfully) "did it" or not is merely one aspect in the fold.  The real dirty-rub is, was the federal government (including a government funded or sponsored project) involved in this tragedy and if so to what degree.


I should have said that he did it of his own free will and with no help, suggestions, or brainwashing from anyone (that includes Israel)

I thought what he wrote on the dating website was interesting: 




> His profile posted on the dating website Match.com was headlined *"Will you visit me in prison?"*
> 
> "The first thing people usually notice about me is* my soul penetrating eyes*," he wrote. "Learning is really great, *knowledge is power* as the famous Sir Bacon [sic] said." Holmes also said he liked* techno music*, had *"middle-of-the-road" political views*, was *agnostic*, and *"definitely" wanted children.*





> A woman who was suggested as a possible date by the website said it was "pretty scary getting matched to a mass murderer".


as for the cash he used to fund the spree it turns out he was getting federal grant money.




> Explain away known Mossad asset Adam Kaddan calling for this a couple of weeks back pretending to be an al-queda pirahnaswami. You can't. So you will play the worn out anti-semite card like that means $#@! in a handbag to me or a greater and greater percentage of America who do not perceive that $#@!ty little country and their vampirish intel agency and killers as an ally like they claim.. Facts are facts and all you got is a pea shooter full of ad hominem bull$#@! to fire.
> 
> Rev9


I did a search for this word:




> pirahnaswami


and got 0 results on Bing, Google, and DDG so....stop using fake words man.

I did a search for Adam Kaddan and another one with the added word Israel and the top result (there were two results and both were posts by you) was your post on this site. Stop making people up

----------


## phill4paul

> I did a search for Adam Kaddan and another one with the added word Israel and the top result (there were two results and both were posts by you) was your post on this site. Stop making people up


  Two seconds of search brought up Adam Ghadahn (Kaddan) aka Adam Pearlman a believed Mossad asset. I believe this is what Rev9 is referring to. However, I only invest _two seconds_ in finding it.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Two seconds of search brought up Adam Ghadahn (Kaddan) aka Adam Pearlman a believed Mossad asset. I believe this is what Rev9 is referring to. However, I only invest _two seconds_ in finding it.


He should learn to spell then.

His name is Adam Yahiye Gadahn and he's a Muslim terrorist

----------


## phill4paul

> He should learn to spell then.


  Or maybe you should quit wishing for the world to give you all the answers, nice and tidy, and learn to think outside the box and conduct your own research.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Or maybe you should quit wishing for the world to give you all the answers, nice and tidy, and learn to think outside the box and conduct your own research.


I did and he isn't a Mossad agent according to it. 




> Adam Yahiye Gadahn (Arabic: آدم يحيى غدن‎, Ādam Yaḥyā Ghadan; born Adam Pearlman, September 1, 1978) is an* American who is a senior operative, cultural interpreter, spokesman and media advisor for the Islamist group Al-Qaeda.* Since 2004, he appeared in a number of videos produced by Al-Qaeda as "Azzam the American" ('Azzām al-Amrīki, عزام الأمريكي, sometimes transcribed as Ezzam Al-Amerikee). *Gadahn converted to Islam in 1995, at the age of 17, at a California mosque and is described as a "homegrown," meaning that he has converted to an ideology so firmly that he is now willing to harm his country of origin*


I guess Rev9 just thinks he's a Mossad agent because of this:




> Gadahn was born Adam Pearlman, the son of musician Phil Pearlman. *Gadahn's Jewish paternal grandfather, Carl Pearlman, was a prominent urologist; and on the Board of Directors of the Anti-Defamation League.* *According to Gadahn,* *he was a "zealous supporter" of Israel.*


Why would a Mossad agent say this?




> "End all support, moral, military, economic, political, or otherwise, to the bastard state of Israel, and ban your citizens, Zionist Jews, Zionist Christians, and the rest from traveling to occupied Palestine or settling there. Even one penny of aid will be considered sufficient justification to continue the fight."


Oh...I see now. It's because Alex Jones says so that it must be. First result for "Adam Gadahn Mossad agent" was his site and then a few "truther" sites after that. All hail the man with the bullhorn

----------


## phill4paul

> I did and he isn't a Mossad agent according to it.


  Congratulations. You spent a whole 60 seconds shining a flashlight in that rabbit hole. Glad you found the answer you were looking for.

  E.T.A.: Seems you spent an additional 2 minutes on this. That's impressive.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Congratulations. You spent a whole 60 seconds shining a flashlight in that rabbit hole. Glad you found the answer you were looking for.
> 
>   E.T.A.: Seems you spent an additional 2 minutes on this. That's impressive.


Isn't it weird how little time it takes to prove how full of $#@! he is?

----------


## jmdrake

> Why would a Mossad agent say this?
> 
> _"End all support, moral, military, economic, political, or otherwise, to the bastard state of Israel, and ban your citizens, Zionist Jews, Zionist Christians, and the rest from traveling to occupied Palestine or settling there. Even one penny of aid will be considered sufficient justification to continue the fight."_ 
> 
> Oh...I see now. It's because Alex Jones says so that it must be. First result for "Adam Gadahn Mossad agent" was his site and then a few "truther" sites after that. All hail the man with the bullhorn


Let's see.  If Adam Gadahn really wanted to end all support for Israel would he have more effect speaking out as a Jewish American or as an Al Qaeda terrorist?  If on the other hand he wanted to smear those who wanted to end all support for Israel as terrorists.....?

----------


## phill4paul

> Isn't it weird how little time it takes to prove how full of $#@! he is?


  I remember back when the Hutaree Militia was arrested. The first several web pages were nothing but the 'official' script the government had fed to the media. Some of us chose to be a little more critical. Then of course you stumbled on the 'truther' sites. Seems they weren't the crazed, loaded for bear, end of the world preppers, hell bent on shooting up the local police the script made them out to be. Turns out they were just railroaded and led into making certain statements.
  But, ya know we all do find the answers _that we want to_. Whether we don't search at all or whether we chose to search deeper than the common narrative.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> I remember back when the Hutaree Militia was arrested. The first several web pages were nothing but the 'official' script the government had fed to the media. Some of us chose to be a little more critical. Then of course you stumbled on the 'truther' sites. Seems they weren't the crazed, loaded for bear, end of the world preppers, hell bent on shooting up the local police the script made them out to be. Turns out they were just railroaded and led into making certain statements.
>   But, ya know we all do find the answers _that we want to_. Whether we don't search at all or whether we chose to search deeper than the common narrative.





> The group was *allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, whom they believed would be supported and defended by local, state, and federal law enforcement.* *On their website, all police and military members who would support the current U.S. system of local, state or federal government were described as members of the "brotherhood" who are considered by the Hutaree to be enemies*





> The Hutaree claim that an apocalypse is near but has not yet begun and will occur in the future. *An article on the Hutaree website suggested that Javier Solana, former Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and of the Western European Union, may be the Antichrist.*





> One man who once contemplated joining the group ("Mr. Savino") was refused admission due to his being a Muslim.





> On March 27, 2012, a federal judge acquitted seven Hutaree defendants of the most serious charges related to conspiracy and sedition; they were free to go. *David Stone Sr. and Joshua Stone continued to be held on weapons-related charges*


They sure do sound like some mighty fine folks

----------


## MelissaWV

> This makes sense to me. They found him in his car and he peacefully surrendered after going on a killing spree, which makes no sense at all. So yeah, someone else doing it and then planting the evidence on him makes alot more sense.


You quoted another article directly after this that stated he was not found in his car.  Which is it?  It seems like it's not certain.

Moreover, I've already put forth a couple of scenarios where it makes plenty of sense for him to surrender.  For some reason, the idea that some narcissistic kid who's been unremarkable and happy and such wants to go down in infamy is implausible, but the idea that he was nabbed and drugged and set up by a fleeing gunman who tossed him weaponry and boobytrapped his home without him knowing about it... now THAT is plausible.




> Also the City of Aurora was named after the Roman Goddess (noting that the incident took place after midnight, while not near dawn per se, but that is probably about the latest showing available for movies until nearing afternoon time the following day):
> 
> "In Roman mythology, Aurora, the goddess of the dawn, renews herself every morning and flies across the sky, announcing the arrival of the sun."
> 
> Further noting that this could be an inference of the theory of _temporal illusion_ (so as to alter the past) that he had stated he had been working on.


It was very clever of the Government to choose to make this association so that you could be smart enough to find it.  You missed the more obvious connection with Aurora being a comic book character, but I give you points for style.




> No. The green one in the arrest moment photo.
> 
> Rev9


Just in case this has not sunk in when the other few people said it, that photo is not of this guy being arrested.  It's of another unrelated incident with someone else.  The big clue is that the photo is during the middle of the day, while the shooter was arrested when it was dark out.

----------


## GunnyFreedom

> They sure do sound like some mighty fine folks


"Freedom" means that people will be free to do stuff that you may not like.  Like preparing for the apocalypse.  Like it or don't like it who cares, but if you support the incarceration of those who have aggressed against nobody because you think they are a little kooky, then you do not support freedom.

----------


## phill4paul

> They sure do sound like some mighty fine folks


  What does it matter 'what kind of folks' you believe them to be. The federal agencies tried to railroad them and a judge determined that a case cannot be won on circumstantial evidence. 
  Point to take from this...they all could be in prison serving a life term based on _official_ federal L.E. 'evidence.' The same one's writing the narrative of this event.
  But, as I have pointed out, we look for the evidence that _we want._ What _you want_ is found in the scripted news reports to date. Some that have proven false.

----------


## Revolution9

> I should have said that he did it of his own free will and with no help, suggestions, or brainwashing from anyone (that includes Israel)
> 
> I thought what he wrote on the dating website was interesting: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as for the cash he used to fund the spree it turns out he was getting federal grant money.
> ...


I will coin all the phrases I wish to. Pirhana + Swami = Nastily Carnivorous Fish/Priest + Swami/ guru of a sect known for futuristic predicitions. Look them up..heh I gotta hand it to you for doing some research though. I hope you get to the point where that is what you do to find out what really is happening..

The more common spelling of his name is Gadhan
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/read/109522

"Adam Gadahn, aka “Azzam the American”and his connections to:
the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai Brith
Yes the very same ADL that is the MOST influential organization in the US....and ...their close co-operation with the Israeli intelligence agency, Mossad, and occasionally with the FBI or CIA......
So do have a look:
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=4219
AND
do have a look here:
http://www.alfredlilienthal.com/defamation.htm
*"*


Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> Just in case this has not sunk in when the other few people said it, that photo is not of this guy being arrested.  It's of another unrelated incident with someone else.  The big clue is that the photo is during the middle of the day, while the shooter was arrested when it was dark out.


You are correct in that it is not the correct time of day. Who is that and why all the cops and some hiding behind a shield?

Rev9

----------


## MelissaWV

> You are correct in that it is not the correct time of day. Who is that and why all the cops and some hiding behind a shield?
> 
> Rev9


np and I wasn't being as snarky as that sounded.  It gets lost in all these posts 

There was an event near this shooting, where the police pretty much stopped everyone in an attempt to find a robber.  There is a thread about it:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ce+robber+stop

----------


## phill4paul

> You are correct in that it is not the correct time of day. Who is that and why all the cops and some hiding behind a shield?
> 
> Rev9


 http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2012...ng-for-robber/




> Colorado Police Illegally Detain 40 Innocent Bystanders Searching for Robber
> In News, NWO, Other Leaks, Police Brutality, Police State, Viral Videos on June 7, 2012 at 7:41 PM
> 
> 
> 06/03/2012
> 
> KDVR:
> 
> AURORA, Colo. – Nearly two dozen cars were detained at the intersection of Iliff Avenue and Buckley Road Saturday afternoon as police—with guns drawn—searched each vehicle for a man who had just robbed the Wells Fargo bank at 15301 E. Hampden Ave.
> ...

----------


## Revolution9

> I did and he isn't a Mossad agent according to it. 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess Rev9 just thinks he's a Mossad agent because of this:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would a Mossad agent say this?
> ...


I know this from 2007 as it was all over the news and many figured out this guy was not al-queda but the son of a jewish mogul. I have never heard AJ say it and do not listen to him at all except when he pops up somewhere in a thread. Keep flailing at straw men buddy. Yer making progress in that at least you are researching for yourself. Unlike you I never discount a FACT from any source and never deem any source 100% on the money. I collect facts and draw my own conclusions which are elastic as the data accumulates and what appeared to be conjecture becomes favct and what was proffered as fact turns to be a lie or unsupported by reality based real world happenings data..

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2012...ng-for-robber/


OK... got it.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> np and I wasn't being as snarky as that sounded.  It gets lost in all these posts 
> 
> There was an event near this shooting, where the police pretty much stopped everyone in an attempt to find a robber.  There is a thread about it:
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ce+robber+stop


I did not think you were being snarky..as I was not last night. If I stand corrected that is fine with me. I also thought the scenario was FOS too with the illegal mega-arrests. It's the frikkin' kapstone kops.

Rev9

----------


## Weston White

> You quoted another article directly after this that stated he was not found in his car.  Which is it?  It seems like it's not certain.


Apparently, he had been discovered standing around his car, which was parked in the rear of the theater several feet from the entrance of the crime-scene, and was initially mistaken as a member of SWAT by arriving units (which at the time, it would had been known by all responding units that no SWAT callout had yet been made and regardless that it would have taken them 30-60 minutes to respond and devise a entry plan).





> Moreover, I've already put forth a couple of scenarios where it makes plenty of sense for him to surrender.  For some reason, the idea that some narcissistic kid who's been unremarkable and happy and such wants to go down in infamy is implausible, but the idea that he was nabbed and drugged and set up by a fleeing gunman who tossed him weaponry and boobytrapped his home without him knowing about it... now THAT is plausible.


Seriously, you are not even willing to consider that highly secretive governmental agencies such as the CIA or NSA just may have in-fact, so having a vested interest, invested decades of time, study, along with bags full of cash into researching and devising such tactics, methods, psychology, and strategies for conducting interrogations, sting operations, blame-shifting, torturing (e.g., enhanced interrogation), extortions, remote/psychic viewing, cognitive processing,  etc?  Even though much of this has since been admitted to, over passing time, through now declassified documents?





> It was very clever of the Government to choose to make this association so that you could be smart enough to find it.  You missed the more obvious connection with Aurora being a comic book character, but I give you points for style.


You further deny that persons in positions of power are frequently associated with occultist beliefs, historical superstitions, possessing a twisted view or appreciation of religion, and are near obsessive on matters of numerology and astrology?

Also a female character from a comic book holds no valued context to the present chain of events, while the city that was named after the Roman Goddess does (further considering the time the event took place), but yes I was aware there was such a fictional superheroines.

----------


## Weston White

> I should have said that he did it of his own free will and with no help, suggestions, or brainwashing from anyone (that includes Israel)


Now, you cannot possibly know all of the many aspects of who was or was not involved with this or that, with such certainly, one way or the other.

However, at this time you are aware that the federal government just recently took a huge gut-check over its treasonous ATF gun-walking operations, right?  And you do of course realize that the recent actions of Mr. Holmes is nonetheless of a great convenience to the federal government as a whole and will very likely serve as vindication for the ATF recent misdeeds right, that Eric Holder, AG may have just received, for all respects, a get out of prison free card?  And that this incident has thus far served as a massive catalyst for the repeal the II Amendment movement?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

I give up

It's clear that you people want this to be a false flag so bad that you called it one less than 24 hours after it happened and you will ignore the mountains of evidence to suggest otherwise as long as you and your internet buddies can high five each other and pretend like you know the truth and pretend that the rest of us are just ignorant for refusing to believe you. Your accusations really say a lot about your personality and how you view the world.  So go ahead and blame it on Israel, the CIA, ATF, Obama, Eric Holder, or whoever you want to without any evidence to back it up. I'm done arguing with people who couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

----------


## tmg19103

Certainly could be a set-up. Devil's advocate, though. He ran down the side of the theater to discard the mask and ran back to his car to make it look like he escaped that way while he then wanted to blend in with the cops in his gear and observe the aftermath like many criminals who return to the scene as bystanders.

Explains why he was in the gear when the cops found him. Reason gear was found on the ground was the cops stripped him of it looking for weapons/body explosives.

Also, assuming he was mentally deranged, one would not expect his actions upon leaving to make sense.

Not looking to argue these points. Just throwing it out there as food for thought. Feel free to comment, but I'm not seeking to defend what I  am saying. Just pointing it out.

What gets me is how someone as incoherent as he looked in court (whether due to mental illness and his own medications or being drugged by a third party) could pull something this elaborate off - and especially the complexity of the devices in his apartment.

----------


## angelatc

> What gets me is how someone as incoherent as he looked in court (whether due to mental illness and his own medications or being drugged by a third party) could pull something this elaborate off - and especially the complexity of the devices in his apartment.


I totally get that.  I'm not as crazy as he is, but when I start a project I obsess on it. And it ends up being far more involved than I originally thought it would be.  In my case, it means adding round corners to a doorway I was only going to wash, or hand-beaded accents to a dress I was only going to shorten.

He was going to put a trip wire in his apartment, and it escalated into something he considered to be magnificent.  In fact, he was so eager to show it off he couldn't bear for it to be destroyed, so he told them about it.

----------


## Revolution9

More info about the possible second character..

"A Fox News reporter interviewed a lady (neighbor) who reported seeing Holmes and another man (white, stocky and wearing a green shirt) running quickly to Holmes' apartment around 7 pm, just hours before the shooting. The witness said that she "got her children out of the way" because she thought "something was happening". They must have been running strangely for her to fear for her children... She reported to the Fox reporter that Holmes run into his apartment while the stocky man with the green shirt waited for him outside in the parking lot. And yet, the police and other media are reporting a "lone nut" scenario. Sounds to me like there were "2 nuts" who were seen running past this lady at 7 pm on July 20th."
Is this the guy whose car it was? Is this the guy who rigged the boobytraps. Stocky and green shirt. Wonder if it was combat green. Was this guy the dropper of the gasmask prior to an escape from the scene. Who is he??? It wasn't the guy who was his best friend. He was oriental blooded and tall and thin..not stocky at all.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> Certainly could be a set-up. Devil's advocate, though. He ran down the side of the theater to discard the mask and ran back to his car to make it look like he escaped that way while he then wanted to blend in with the cops in his gear and observe the aftermath like many criminals who return to the scene as bystanders.


There apparently wasn't enough time. And why would he run to the end..discard a gasmask and then run back.. He was not out of breath when apprehended. he was docile.

There is another character involved according to a neighbor witness. he is on the loose still.

rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> I give up


Good. Less channel noise.

rev9

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Good. Less channel noise.
> 
> rev9


Can't you people just go over to AJ's forum and talk about this?

----------


## phill4paul

> Can't you people just go over to AJ's forum and talk about this?


  I had hoped when you posted that you had given up that you actually meant it.

----------


## pcosmar

> I had hoped when you posted that you had given up that you actually meant it.


They never do.

----------


## Brett85

Even if there was another person involved who helped Holmes, that doesn't mean that Holmes didn't actually shoot all these people or that there's some kind of government conspiracy at play.

----------


## phill4paul

> Even if there was another person involved who helped Holmes, that doesn't mean that Holmes didn't actually shoot all these people or that there's some kind of government conspiracy at play.


  No. Nor does it mean there is not. Since the 'lone gunman' theory is the _official_ stance then proof of another would certainly cast doubt. The have been accounts. We will see if they pan out. I truly wish that news organizations would actually do some _investigative_ reporting as opposed to just regurgitating the official script.

----------


## jmdrake

Yeah.  That's plausible.




> Certainly could be a set-up. Devil's advocate, though. He ran down the side of the theater to discard the mask and ran back to his car to make it look like he escaped that way while he then wanted to blend in with the cops in his gear and observe the aftermath like many criminals who return to the scene as bystanders.
> 
> Explains why he was in the gear when the cops found him. Reason gear was found on the ground was the cops stripped him of it looking for weapons/body explosives.
> 
> Also, assuming he was mentally deranged, one would not expect his actions upon leaving to make sense.
> 
> Not looking to argue these points. Just throwing it out there as food for thought. Feel free to comment, but I'm not seeking to defend what I  am saying. Just pointing it out.
> 
> What gets me is how someone as incoherent as he looked in court (whether due to mental illness and his own medications or being drugged by a third party) could pull something this elaborate off - and especially the complexity of the devices in his apartment.

----------


## jmdrake

> Even if there was another person involved who helped Holmes, that doesn't mean that Holmes didn't actually shoot all these people or that there's some kind of government conspiracy at play.


Sure.  But if there is another person involved it is by definition a conspiracy regardless of whether there was government involvement.  And the most suspicious thing about OKC is how the government pretended there was no "John Doe #2" despite all of the evidence to the contrary, some of it coming from elements within the government.




> No. Nor does it mean there is not. Since the 'lone gunman' theory is the _official_ stance then proof of another would certainly cast doubt. The have been accounts. We will see if they pan out. I truly wish that news organizations would actually do some _investigative_ reporting as opposed to just regurgitating the official script.


^This.  I'm not sure why folks like TC insist on assuming everyone that isn't ready to accept the official story tied up in a nice neat bow is in the "Well it's 100% false flag government operation" camp.

----------


## Revolution9

> Sure.  But if there is another person involved it is by definition a conspiracy regardless of whether there was government involvement.  And the most suspicious thing about OKC is how the government pretended there was no "John Doe #2" despite all of the evidence to the contrary, some of it coming from elements within the government.
> 
> 
> 
> ^This.  I'm not sure why folks like TC insist on assuming everyone that isn't ready to accept the official story tied up in a nice neat bow is in the "Well it's 100% false flag government operation" camp.


John Doe #2 was Jose Padilla. He was photographed in 1991 in a BATF courtroom case as McVey's partner. That picture was scrubbed from the net in the late nineties. 

Rev9

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

You know what is weird? I was talking to my brother about this movie and showed him some of it two days before this happened. It's really similar (the gear) to what he used in real life and the guy in the movie gets all the stuff sent to him in the mail. They should ask him if he has seen this movie:

----------


## Weston White

> I give up
> 
> It's clear that you people want this to be a false flag so bad that you called it one less than 24 hours after it happened and you will ignore the mountains of evidence to suggest otherwise as long as you and your internet buddies can high five each other and pretend like you know the truth and pretend that the rest of us are just ignorant for refusing to believe you. Your accusations really say a lot about your personality and how you view the world.  So go ahead and blame it on Israel, the CIA, ATF, Obama, Eric Holder, or whoever you want to without any evidence to back it up. I'm done arguing with people who couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.


During the last century, over 170-million individuals have been murdered or otherwise "culled" through the direct enforcement actions of their very own government.  If you truly think for a moment that your own form of American government is immune to such deplorable and treasonous tact, yet that the people serving as your own government -and for which is made up of those very people- represent are, it is only you that are fooling yourself.

Just look at how the Executive and its U.S. Military treat the people of other nations, now do you honestly believe that those same people view you and your family any differently, just because you like within the boarders of the nation that they "serve"?  If so you are even a bigger fool than previously thought.

----------


## Weston White

> Certainly could be a set-up. Devil's advocate, though. He ran down the side of the theater to discard the mask and ran back to his car to make it look like he escaped that way while he then wanted to blend in with the cops in his gear and observe the aftermath like many criminals who return to the scene as bystanders.


Except that the unkempt orange/red hair would have raised questions in the mind of the police, no way would a police officer be walking around with orange/red hair, also surely his tactical gear would have been missing department logos, and he would not be familiar with police lingo and procedures, is not reported as having a police radio or police vehicle, etc.  Other than that it seems that he had a timeframe of 1-3 minutes to flee in his vehicle that was parked right at the rear door before the first police units arrived, so why didn't he?  If he wanted to observe the actions of the police he could have left his vehicle out front after hiding a drop bag hidden at the rear door and then could have returned to the scene after striping down.

----------


## Weston White

> He was going to put a trip wire in his apartment, and it escalated into something he considered to be magnificent.  In fact, he was so eager to show it off he couldn't bear for it to be destroyed, so he told them about it.


Oh please, and you label the alternate theory conspiratorial?

----------


## Weston White

> More info about the possible second character..
> 
> "A Fox News reporter interviewed a lady (neighbor) who reported seeing Holmes and another man (white, stocky and wearing a green shirt) running quickly to Holmes' apartment around 7 pm, just hours before the shooting. The witness said that she "got her children out of the way" because she thought "something was happening". They must have been running strangely for her to fear for her children... She reported to the Fox reporter that Holmes run into his apartment while the stocky man with the green shirt waited for him outside in the parking lot. And yet, the police and other media are reporting a "lone nut" scenario. Sounds to me like there were "2 nuts" who were seen running past this lady at 7 pm on July 20th."
> Is this the guy whose car it was? Is this the guy who rigged the boobytraps. Stocky and green shirt. Wonder if it was combat green. Was this guy the dropper of the gasmask prior to an escape from the scene. Who is he??? It wasn't the guy who was his best friend. He was oriental blooded and tall and thin..not stocky at all.
> 
> Rev9


Is there any information yet, as to when his hair was dyed, e.g., did witnesses or people he spoke with earlier that day notice his new fiery locks?

----------


## phill4paul

> Is there any information yet, as to when his hair was dyed, e.g., did witnesses or people he spoke with earlier that day notice his new fiery locks?


  A timeline could be gathered if an _investigative_ effort were made. Unfortunately, news organization merely regurgitate the script they are given.

----------


## Weston White

> Even if there was another person involved who helped Holmes, that doesn't mean that Holmes didn't actually shoot all these people or that there's some kind of government conspiracy at play.


Shooter James Holmes and DARPA Weird Science




> "James Holmes was one of six recipients of a National Institutes of Health Neuroscience Training Grant at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus in Denver, Madsen writes for the Wayne Madsen Report.
> ...
> Holmes also worked as a research assistant intern at the Salk Institute at the University of California at San Diego in La Jolla. The Salk Institute teamed up with DARPA, Columbia University, University of California at San Francisco, University of Wisconsin at Madison, Wake Forest University, and the candy bar company Mars to prevent fatigue in combat troops through the enhanced use of epicatechina, a blood flow-increasing and blood vessel-dilating anti-oxidant flavanol found in cocoa and, particularly, in dark chocolate, according to Madsens research.
> ...
> The Holmes family appears to have deep connections to the military-industrial complex. Lt. Col. Robert Holmes, the grandfather of James Holmes, was a graduate Turkish language graduates of the Army Language School, later the Defense Language Institute, in Monterey, California (the same military installation, incidentally, where alleged 9/11 hijacker Saeed Alghamdi trained).
> ...
> Was James Holmes engaged in a real-life Jason Bourne TREADSTONE project that broke down and resulted in deadly consequences in Aurora, Colorado? Madsen concludes. Operation Treadstone was a fictional top-secret CIA project under which the character Jason Bourne underwent behavioral modification."

----------


## John F Kennedy III

His mother has been calling the police for days and is now having to do press conferences because she never said whatthey're trying to say she said.

Why would they lie and then ignore her and keep lying?

----------


## Thor

> You know what is weird? I was talking to my brother about this movie and showed him some of it two days before this happened. It's really similar (the gear) to what he used in real life and the guy in the movie gets all the stuff sent to him in the mail. They should ask him if he has seen this movie:


http://washingtonexaminer.com/batman...rticle/2502701

*Was the Batman movie shooting imitated from scene in 1986 comic?*

The horrific shooting at the screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado late last night bears eerie similarities to a scene in the 1986 comic Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. In the comic, a crazed, gun-toting loner walks into a movie theater and begins shooting it up, killing three in the process. The passage concludes with the media blaming Batman for inspiring the shooting, though he is not involved in the incident at all.

----------


## phill4paul

> His mother has been calling the police for days and is now having to do press conferences because she never said whatthey're trying to say she said.
> 
> Why would they lie and then ignore her and keep lying?


  Wait. Wut? Are you talking about her statement "You have the right person." I attributed this to ABC misrepresenting her statement. Have the authorities regurgitated what ABC espoused?
"

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> I give up
> 
> It's clear that you people want this to be a false flag so bad that you called it one less than 24 hours after it happened and you will ignore the mountains of evidence to suggest otherwise as long as you and your internet buddies can high five each other and pretend like you know the truth and pretend that the rest of us are just ignorant for refusing to believe you. Your accusations really say a lot about your personality and how you view the world.  So go ahead and blame it on Israel, the CIA, ATF, Obama, Eric Holder, or whoever you want to without any evidence to back it up. I'm done arguing with people who couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.


You have yet to present mountains of evidence against this being a false flag. Nobody has actually.

----------


## cjm

From what I've read so far, I'm convinced there was a second person there.  This post describes a scenario that fits the known facts better than any other in my opinion:

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012...#comment-37780




> Based on this map, and what I saw of James in court, NOT the face of evil, or insanity, but dazed, drugged, or something, Im of the opinion that James Holmes didnt do any of the shooting at all. He went into the movie theater, received a phone call and opened the exit as told, left the building and sat in his car. The gunman who is by all witness accounts was shorter than James Holmes comes in, does the shooting and leaves out the same door. He gets outside, immediately strips out of his gear and gets into a car which is waiting with the ignition running in the position right where the helmet and gear were found. He speeds off to the right side of the building and realizes he still has the gas mask in the car with him and tosses it out the window as he rounds the corner. James Holmes sits in the car like he was told to do and takes the fall like a good patsy always does. The police said he was in full gear, but, obviously he was NOT. That dazed sleepy person could not have accomplished all that stuff so quickly. That would take a trained athlete, not a nerdy PHD student. Sorry. He reminds me of Sheldon.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Wait. Wut? Are you talking about her statement "You have the right person." I attributed this to ABC misrepresenting her statement. Have the authorities regurgitated what ABC espoused?
> "


Yes that's what I'm talking about. Not that I know of, I don't know why she was calling the police.

----------


## Weston White

> You know what is weird? I was talking to my brother about this movie and showed him some of it two days before this happened. It's really similar (the gear) to what he used in real life and the guy in the movie gets all the stuff sent to him in the mail. They should ask him if he has seen this movie:


The review for the German produced _Rampage_ stated that he constructed his armor, and that type of equipment is not legally available to the public in many states (only to law enforcement personnel) or otherwise must be shipped through a registered gun dealer and likely requires a machine gun permit.

Noting the aspect of movies however, it is more interesting to notice what has occurred with the _Gangster Squad_ trailer, that is being pulled from the Batman movie previews and has been thoroughly blocked all over YouTube the day following the Aurora incident (but none of the other trailers included within Batman are being pulled or blocked on YouTube).  This is highly interesting because the people at the Aurora Batman movie initially had stated that they were confused during the event for they had thought it was part of the movie, etc.; so the question becomes was that specific movie trailer actually intended to serve as a sort of subliminal message or to wage a form of hypnosis upon the theater goers? Being that the trailer depicted several shadowy figures garbed in (mostly) black clothing with hats firing machine guns (that are even equipped with high capacity magazines) into a large white screen until they had made huge holes that they could walk through, i.e., this could be superimposed with the image a full-size movie screen with a shooter dressed out in black tactical gear firing a tactical rifle before the audience.

Regardless, this is highly odd, what was the intended point of this shot, really (and will it ultimately be pulled from the movie as well)?

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> http://washingtonexaminer.com/batman...rticle/2502701
> 
> *Was the Batman movie shooting imitated from scene in 1986 comic?*
> 
> The horrific shooting at the screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado late last night bears eerie similarities to a scene in the 1986 comic Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. In the comic, a crazed, gun-toting loner walks into a movie theater and begins shooting it up, killing three in the process. The passage concludes with the media blaming Batman for inspiring the shooting, though he is not involved in the incident at all.


Yeah...the movie trailer I posted seems to mimic it more than that comic. In the comic he uses a pistol, only kills three people, and doesn't wear any type of body armor or gas mask. 




> The review for the German produced _Rampage_ stated that he constructed his armor, and that type of equipment is not legally available to the public in many states (only to law enforcement personnel) or otherwise must be shipped through a registered gun dealer and likely requires a machine gun permit.


He constructs the armor in the film but has all of the ammo and weapons mailed to him. You still have to admit that the person in the film bears a much closer resemblance to how he was dressed than the Joker does. As for the film Gangster Squad it has nothing to do with this at all. It's about a mobster in LA and the team of police formed together (the Gangster Squad perhaps?) to fight him and his crew.

----------


## Revolution9

> Yes that's what I'm talking about. Not that I know of, I don't know why she was calling the police.


A reporter called her and asked her if she was the mother of James Homes. her reply was "Yes. That's me.". She heard about it after being woke up and her next reaction was "I must phone the police and fly out there immediately." It was purposely misreported.

Rev9

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> A reporter called her and asked her if she was the mother of James Homes. her reply was "Yes. That's me.". She heard about it after being woke up and her next reaction was "I must phone the police and fly out there immediately." It was purposely misreported.
> 
> Rev9


She actually said "You've got the right person" and they misinterpreted that.

----------


## Revolution9

> You know what is weird? I was talking to my brother about this movie and showed him some of it two days before this happened. It's really similar (the gear) to what he used in real life and the guy in the movie gets all the stuff sent to him in the mail. They should ask him if he has seen this movie:


I had a contract from Aurora Colorado the night before offered and was considering moving there till I woke up to the crime. I wrote them that morning and they never replied back. These guys were gamers and would have gone to this. I hope they are alright.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> She actually said "You've got the right person" and they misinterpreted that.


Corrected. I had the gist right

Rev9

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Corrected. I had the gist right
> 
> Rev9


Yeah, it's just horrible reporting, like when they assumed they had the right Holmes but he turned out to be a retired LEO. The public is so hungry for info and they know reporting anything even if it isn't true will get them higher ratings in an event like this.

----------


## Weston White

> As for the film Gangster Squad it has nothing to do with this at all. It's about a mobster in LA and the team of police formed together (the Gangster Squad perhaps?) to fight him and his crew.


Not the plot, but the scene.

----------


## Noob

It seems according to CNN the agenda is now to bring back the anti assault weapons ban, and ban high capacity magazines and internet sales of ammo.

----------


## Revolution9

> Is there any information yet, as to when his hair was dyed, e.g., did witnesses or people he spoke with earlier that day notice his new fiery locks?


With what was said by the neighbor it must have been done after 7pm that evening.

Rev9

----------


## Revolution9

> Not the plot, but the scene.


Here is another question. They casually mention he entered the movie right in the middle of a gun firing scene like it was planned that way. No doubt it was planned that way for max confusion... If this is true and the timing was quasi random how did drugged up James know to time the burst in and fire moment to that, if the movie has never been seen in public prior?

rev9

----------


## Tyler_Durden

> It seems according to CNN the agenda is now to bring back the anti assault weapons ban, and ban high capacity magazines and internet sales of ammo.



Gun sales/background checks have increased 43% over the weekend. 

Stock up on your mags and ammo. They will be targeted before the guns......

----------


## MelissaWV

> Apparently, he had been discovered standing around his car, which was parked in the rear of the theater several feet from the entrance of the crime-scene, and was initially mistaken as a member of SWAT by arriving units (which at the time, it would had been known by all responding units that no SWAT callout had yet been made and regardless that it would have taken them 30-60 minutes to respond and devise a entry plan).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, you are not even willing to consider that highly secretive governmental agencies such as the CIA or NSA just may have in-fact, so having a vested interest, invested decades of time, study, along with bags full of cash into researching and devising such tactics, methods, psychology, and strategies for conducting interrogations, sting operations, blame-shifting, torturing (e.g., enhanced interrogation), extortions, remote/psychic viewing, cognitive processing,  etc?  Even though much of this has since been admitted to, over passing time, through now declassified documents?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was seriously the biggest non-reply ever, other than to say that a female comic book character sharing the same name as the city where people were shot at a movie based on a comic book has no context here.  Right.  Because the name of the city does.  Why not go one further and say that "Colorado" refers to the color red, which is often used in occult ceremonies together with black, the color of the guy's armor?

I don't "deny" any of the things you've said I did.  You are just so blinded to every other possibility --- even extremely plausible ones --- that you feel a need to sneer and snark and tell me I'm the one in denial.  You've gone so far as to answer questions I posed to someone else.

----------


## phill4paul

> Here is another question. They casually mention he entered the movie right in the middle of a gun firing scene like it was planned that way. No doubt it was planned that way for max confusion... If this is true and the timing was quasi random how did drugged up James know to time the burst in and fire moment to that, if the movie has never been seen in public prior?
> 
> rev9


  I'd like to find a schematic of the theatre. Did the exit doors have 'recesses.' One eyewitness said that the person with the phone propped the door open with his foot and seemed to motion to someone outside. So from an eyewitness the door was completely in sight. If as some reports say he exited and propped the door open then would that not have been visible also?

----------


## MelissaWV

> Here is another question. They casually mention he entered the movie right in the middle of a gun firing scene like it was planned that way. No doubt it was planned that way for max confusion... If this is true and the timing was quasi random how did drugged up James know to time the burst in and fire moment to that, if the movie has never been seen in public prior?
> 
> rev9


This can be taken either way, but the "opening scene" has been part of the previews and movie reviews for awhile now, where Bane's escape was discussed quite a lot.  I would imagine that happens fairly early, and would play into someone planning a shooting.  The music has also been discussed in a variety of reviews as being so booming and overpowering that you could hardly hear the dialogue.  In other words, it would be a really safe bet that the movie was going to be loud as hell very early.  Or, barring all of that, it's an easy matter (if the door is propped open) to wait a moment until you hear a loud scene starting up.  Given the history of these kinds of movies, you know you only have moments to wait.

----------


## MelissaWV

> I'd like to find a schematic of the theatre. Did the exit doors have 'recesses.' One eyewitness said that the person with the phone propped the door open with his foot and seemed to motion to someone outside. So from an eyewitness the door was completely in sight. If as some reports say he exited and propped the door open then would that not have been visible also?


At midnight?  It depends on how well-lit the parking lot was from there, and how propped open it was.  We prop the door open at work with a piece of cardboard that prevents it from engaging properly, but does not let in anything (bugs, light) from outside.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

Ahh yes. Here it is. Remember the Army Soldier in Afghanistan who left his base in the middle of the night and killed villagers in 2 villages several miles apart? The next day, he could not recall anything. Several surviving witnesses were adamant that several laughing and drunken soldiers carried out the attacks, but the US pinned it all on this one guy. 

Anyhow, Colorado reminds me of the Afghan incident. Seems there's a playbook for this type of patsy coverup. 

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ghlight=Afghan

----------


## phill4paul

> At midnight?  It depends on how well-lit the parking lot was from there, and how propped open it was.  We prop the door open at work with a piece of cardboard that prevents it from engaging properly, but does not let in anything from outside.


  Sure enough. That's why I'm trying to seek as much clarity as possible. I just know that I am extremely aware of what goes on when someone hits the exit. I realize that is just me. It, honestly, disturbs my movie experience to the point I become hyper-aware regarding it.

----------


## phill4paul

> Ahh yes. Here it is. Remember the Army Soldier in Afghanistan who left his base in the middle of the night and killed villagers in 2 villages several miles apart? The next day, he could not recall anything. Several surviving witnesses were adamant that several laughing and drunken soldiers carried out the attacks, but the US pinned it all on this one guy. 
> 
> Anyhow, Colorado reminds me of the Afghan incident. Seems there's a playbook for this type of patsy coverup. 
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ghlight=Afghan


  Thanks for contributing something to throw in the mix.

  You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tyler_Durden again.

----------


## Revolution9

> That was seriously the biggest non-reply ever, other than to say that a female comic book character sharing the same name as the city where people were shot at a movie based on a comic book has no context here.  Right.  Because the name of the city does.  Why not go one further and say that "Colorado" refers to the color red, which is often used in occult ceremonies together with black, the color of the guy's armor?


Good symbolic analogical thinking. Wetware programmers like to get as many symbols in a row as possible in their butterflies. These are all part of the assassin trigger symbol sets.

"Monarch programmers cause intense trauma to subjects through the use of electroshock, torture, abuse and mind games in order to force them to dissociate from reality – a natural response in  some people when then are faced with unbearable pain. The subject’s ability to dissociate is a major requirement and it is ,apparently, most readily found in children that come from families with multiple generations of abuse. Mental dissociation enables the handlers to create walled-off personas in the subject’s psyche, which can then be programmed and triggered at will.

Here is a list of methods used from a deprogrammers site

The victim/survivor is called a “slave” by the programmer/handler, who in turn is perceived as “master” or “god.” About 75% are female, since they possess a higher tolerance for pain and tend to dissociate more easily than males. Monarch handlers seek the compartmentalization of their subject’s psyche in multiple and separate alter personas using trauma to cause dissociation.The following is a partial list of these forms of torture:
1. Abuse and torture
2. Confinement in boxes, cages, coffins, etc, or burial (often with an opening or air-tube for oxygen)
3. Restraint with ropes, chains, cuffs, etc.
4. Near-drowning
5. Extremes of heat and cold, including submersion in ice water and burning chemicals
6. Skinning (only top layers of the skin are removed in victims intended to survive)
7. Spinning
8. Blinding light
9. Electric shock
10. Forced ingestion of offensive body fluids and matter, such as blood, urine, feces, flesh, etc.
11. Hung in painful positions or upside down
12. Hunger and thirst
13. Sleep deprivation
14 Compression with weights and devices
15. Sensory deprivation
16. Drugs to create illusion, confusion, and amnesia, often given by injection or intravenously
17. Ingestion or intravenous toxic chemicals to create pain or illness, including chemotherapy agents
18. Limbs pulled or dislocated
19. Application of snakes, spiders, maggots, rats, and other animals to induce fear and disgust
20. Near-death experiences, commonly asphyxiation by choking or drowning, with immediate resuscitation
22. Forced to perform or witness abuse, torture and sacrifice of people and animals, usually with knives
23. Forced participation in slavery
24. Abuse to become pregnant; the fetus is then aborted for ritual use, or the baby is taken for sacrifice or enslavement
25. Spiritual abuse to cause victim to feel possessed, harassed, and controlled internally by spirits or demons
26. Desecration of Judeo-Christian beliefs and forms of worship; dedication to Satan or other deities
27. Abuse and illusion to convince victims that God is evil, such as convincing a child that God has abused her
28. Surgery to torture, experiment, or cause the perception of physical or spiritual bombs or implants
29. Harm or threats of harm to family, friends, loved ones, pets, and other victims, to force compliance30. Use of illusion and virtual reality to confuse and create non-credible disclosure 8.

-----------------

I know three people that have been put through some of this. One of them is a really bizarre story. I may know a fourth who had all the symptoms. Here is a pic of one of their slaves in training.



Are you pissed yet? Strain all frikkin' urine! I have been for years. They did this to a kid who played bass for me. Fed him his feces and made him feed others and them feed him along with beatings and kept him up for days on end. His parents sent him there.  Was James one of these? Note the generational concept. Note his parents professions.

Rev9

----------


## Noob

No Signing and Ratification of the UN Arms Treaty

http://www.votervoice.net/core.aspx?..._CULTURE=en-us


Defeat the H.R. 308 McCarthy Magazine Ban Bill

http://www.nagr.org/McCarthyBanPetition2.aspx?pid=ND1

----------


## PatriotOne

> "James Holmes was one of six recipients of a National Institutes of Health Neuroscience Training Grant at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus in Denver, Madsen writes for the Wayne Madsen Report.
>  ...
>  Holmes also worked as a research assistant intern at the Salk Institute at the University of California at San Diego in La Jolla. The Salk Institute teamed up with DARPA, Columbia University, University of California at San Francisco, University of Wisconsin at Madison, Wake Forest University, and the candy bar company Mars “to prevent fatigue in combat troops through the enhanced use of epicatechina, a blood flow-increasing and blood vessel-dilating anti-oxidant flavanol found in cocoa and, particularly, in dark chocolate,” according to Madsen’s research.
>  ...
>  The Holmes family appears to have deep connections to the military-industrial complex. Lt. Col. Robert Holmes, the grandfather of James Holmes, was a graduate Turkish language graduates of the Army Language School, later the Defense Language Institute, in Monterey, California (the same military installation, incidentally, where alleged 9/11 hijacker Saeed Alghamdi trained).
>  ...
>  “Was James Holmes engaged in a real-life Jason Bourne TREADSTONE project that broke down and resulted in deadly consequences in Aurora, Colorado?” Madsen concludes. Operation Treadstone was a fictional top-secret CIA project under which the character Jason Bourne underwent behavioral modification."


Welp.  That's it.  I'm done trying to keep an open mind about whether this was a mind control op.  DARPA in particular put it over the top.  Too coincidental that his father had involvement with those institutes.  All the signs are there that this is a 100% mind control victim.  Whether he just lost his mind because of his training and did it on his own or whether black ops were involved and he was triggered intentionally or perhaps he is a operative of the shadow government and triggered intentionally...HE IS A VICTIM OF MIND CONTROL.  

Most of us talk about our black ops being involved but these sleeper assassins, etc., are also utilized by people like Rockefeller and Bushes and Kissinger, etc.....those non-government people trying to bring about Global Government.

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Welp.  That's it.  I'm done trying to keep an open mind about whether this was a mind control op.  DARPA in particular put it over the top.  Too coincidental that his father had involvement with those institutes.  All the signs are there that this is a 100% mind control victim.  Whether he just lost his mind because of his training and did it on his own or whether black ops were involved and he was triggered intentionally or perhaps he is a operative of the shadow government and triggered intentionally...HE IS A VICTIM OF MIND CONTROL.  
> 
> Most of us talk about our black ops being involved but these sleeper assassins, etc., are also utilized by people like Rockefeller and Bushes and Kissinger, etc.....those non-government people trying to bring about Global Government.


What about Mars and Wake Forest? Are they in on it too?

----------


## cajuncocoa

*Reality Check: Unanswered Questions About Colorado Theater Massacre*
(FOX19) -The emergency crews hadn't yet left the scene of the Colorado theater shooting before some lawmakers, politicians and members of the media were already asking questions about how gun laws must change.

But instead of playing politics, what questions about the shooting are the media not asking? Ben Swann has the Reality Check you won't see anywhere else.

http://www.fox19.com/story/19104797/...eater-massacre

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> What about Mars and Wake Forest? Are they in on it too?


Do you completely reject the possibility that he is a mind control victim?

----------


## John F Kennedy III

It would be awesome if someone could compile all of Holmes' background info plus all the info on the shooting into one post. Currently it's spread out over this giant thread plus a few others. It would help to have it all in one spot.

----------


## Cutlerzzz

To think this all could have been prevented if we had tighter gun control laws. Holmes would never risk being caught illegally owning a firearm.

----------


## Feeding the Abscess

> To think this all could have been prevented if we had tighter gun control laws. Holmes would never risk being caught illegally owning a firearm.


hehe

----------


## Revolution9

> Do you completely reject the possibility that he is a mind control victim?


He is trying to get educated on this stuff from my determination. Mars..the God of War.. Makes for a cogent symbolic connection. Wake Forest..was someone asleep in the woods?  Real world.. Well the research of who owns what and where and when is applied and see what sticks for clues and then see if two or more clues make a click and two or more clicks make it stick.

Rev9

----------


## DerailingDaTrain

> Do you completely reject the possibility that he is a mind control victim?


Obviously I disagree that he is a victim of mind control but like Rev9 said I'm still looking at the evidence as it goes to come to a definitive conclusion on this case. 

Are there unanswered questions I want to know the answers to? Yes

Will I believe that someone was mind controlled by the government (or a foreign government) to shoot up a movie theater when the current situation suggest otherwise? Well....you would have to get some *really good* evidence for me to be convinced of that. Perhaps someone on video stating that they played a direct part in the planning and execution of the crime or a written and signed statement (that has been verified) on a document.

----------


## John F Kennedy III

> Obviously I disagree that he is a victim of mind control but like Rev9 said I'm still looking at the evidence as it goes to come to a definitive conclusion on this case. 
> 
> Are there unanswered questions I want to know the answers to? Yes
> 
> Will I believe that someone was mind controlled by the government (or a foreign government) to shoot up a movie theater when the current situation suggest otherwise? Well....you would have to get some *really good* evidence for me to be convinced of that. Perhaps someone on video stating that they played a direct part in the planning and execution of the crime or a written and signed statement (that has been verified) on a document.


By all means, research away sir.

----------


## Thor

> Obviously I disagree that he is a victim of mind control but like Rev9 said I'm still looking at the evidence as it goes to come to a definitive conclusion on this case. 
> 
> Are there unanswered questions I want to know the answers to? Yes
> 
> Will I believe that someone was mind controlled by the government (or a foreign government) to shoot up a movie theater when the current situation suggest otherwise? Well....you would have to get some *really good* evidence for me to be convinced of that. Perhaps someone on video stating that they played a direct part in the planning and execution of the crime or a written and signed statement (that has been verified) on a document.


I am not sure which way I am on this yet, but I still have some questions, like:

Reports of 2 people (one who got the call and opened the door (who did or did not have red hair?), and the shooter who was 5'8" - 5'9 according to "Corbin Dates" or Dayton)  Did anyone see a guy with red hair in the theater before it all started?  I mean, that is hard to miss when it is flame red like that.  And if someone was sitting behind him when he sat in the front right, I am sure they saw the hair unless he had on a hoodie.

Why was the gas mask 250 feet away from his car and Theater 9 exit at the far corner of the theater (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ater-shooting/) when the police chief is saying the gas mask was found on him with a rifle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7maaFiQQQP8)?  Was he pacing back and forth behind the theater, waiting for his ride that was not there (Eric Hunter reported he tried to enter Theater 8 and banged on the door for 5 seconds  - http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/23...orado-theater/)  But even so, how was the gas mask in 2 places?  The rifle was found right at Theater 9 exit door where I assume he was apprehended, supposedly with the gas mask.  So he had both the rifle and gas mask on him according the Dan Oates (Police Chief), which then the gas mask mysteriously moved 250 feet way?  Or was it someone else's gas mask?  If so, who?  I mean the body armor and helmet was stripped off him it appears to be right by the utility enclosure next to his car.

Getting all these packages with ammo and armor sent to his "office", not his apartment.  Why risk that possible exposure and the added exposure potential in having to transport it all back to his apartment?  Does he even know about this supposed office?

Supposedly he admitted to being on Vicodin when arrested and was a cannabis user.  I am wondering what else he was on?  I am wondering if he volunteered for "an experiment" or "drug trial" at school several months back and that is when this started.

Also, the furniture mover stated he had a beer with him at a local bar the Tuesday before (http://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/man-share...lligent-smirk/) and he seemed like a normal "nerdy" guy.  The "Adult Friend Finder" (which some outlets are reporting was match.com) profile he posted on July 5th had a picture of him with the red hair, so wouldn't the furniture mover who drank a beer and talked about sports with him after that have noticed the red hair?  Unless he kept changing the hair color back and forth.

A neighbor said that he had a male and female visitor off an on in the last few months.  But those were the only people they saw at his apartment.  But he did not have any friends, supposedly.

A neighbor reported seeing him and some stocky guy in a green shirt running around erratically at 7 PM the night of the shooting and she had to move her kids out of the way of their erratic running, and then he ran up to his apartment and this guy waited down below.  Who is that guy?  It was 5 hours before the event.  Did he have red hair when the neighbor saw him running around?  And supposedly his apartment would have been rigged, at least partially, at that point as I am sure it would have taken some time to set up, right?  So he could not have run into the apartment easily.

What is up with the security footage of the back of the theater?  That should show everything....  James Holmes coming out of the theater to his car, getting suited up, going back in, coming back out, banging on Theater 8 door, getting arrested, showing how the gas mask got to the far end of the building under the security camera, etc...

And how did he get such a primo parking space right where he needed it to be?  Did he arrive an hour or so early and wait in the car?  And why did the car have Tennessee tags?  He is from CA and lived in CO for a year+.  And if the car was unlocked (not sure if that is the case) why was the passenger window broken out (you can see the broken glass in some pictures), and the passenger small back window broken?  http://photos.denverpost.com/2012/07...ora-theater/#4 http://photos.denverpost.com/2012/07...ra-theater/#28 http://photos.denverpost.com/2012/07...ra-theater/#79

This witness appears to have seen something happen outside the theater, as he is in his car when being questioned...  what did he see from his car?  http://photos.denverpost.com/2012/07...a-theater/#118  Another vehicle flee?

Nobody could for certain ID the shooter, as the shooters was covered head to toe with his face concealed by a gas mask.  That create a POSSIBLE reasonable doubt as to who pulled the trigger, or if there was more than 1 person.  Is the chain of events possible that he bought a ticket, went into the theater with his red hair concealed, got a call (or acted like he did), went to the door, propped it open and went out an gear up, came in alone a fired on everyone, and went outside and turned himself in and told police about booby trapping his apartment...  the truth?  Possibly.  Perhaps a police officer or SWAT member dropped his gas mask at the corner of the theater, or Dan Oates was mistaken when he said James Holmes had the gas mask on him when he was arrested.  Or James had 2 gas masks and dropped one and then got a new one out of his car.  Maybe the theater did not have the security camera recording that night.  The stocky guy in the green shirt hanging out with him just 5 hours before all this was a mis-identity.  James Holmes kept redyeing his hair red over the past few weeks so it was only red at particular times.  And the multiple reports of 2 people were all mistaken in the confusion.

Just some items that make one wonder.....

----------


## phill4paul

> I am not sure which way I am on this yet, but I still have some questions, like:....
> 
> Just some items that make one wonder.....


  Very well written post. Thank you. +rep

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## devil21

> It would be awesome if someone could compile all of Holmes' background info plus all the info on the shooting into one post. Currently it's spread out over this giant thread plus a few others. It would help to have it all in one spot.


Sounds like a job for Infowars, not RPF.


eta:  regarding the broken car windows mentioned a couple posts above, I doubt the cops wanted to try the door handles in case the car was also booby trapped.  Just break the windows to look inside before trying the doors.

----------


## phill4paul

> Sounds like a job for Infowars, not RPF.


  WTF is it to you?

----------


## cjm

> What is up with the security footage of the back of the theater?  That should show everything....  James Holmes coming out of the theater to his car, getting suited up, going back in, coming back out, banging on Theater 8 door, getting arrested, showing how the gas mask got to the far end of the building under the security camera, etc...


A local guy went out to the theater and said he didn't see any cameras:

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012...#comment-37830

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## Thor

> A local guy went out to the theater and said he didn't see any cameras:
> 
> http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012...#comment-37830


And the next comment on there: 



> willyloman, on July 24, 2012 at 7:54 pm said:
> 
> Thank you. Very helpful. How about the corner above the theater on the end, not the outside corner, but the inside one? Good pics though. Looks like that camera that was pictured in the Google Street View has been removed. Question is… when was it removed?
> 
> http://willyloman.files.wordpress.co...ing-camera.jpg


Or why was it removed?

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## Revolution9

James Holmes father is the chief scientist for FICO-the credit scores company. He is the one that created the algorithm that recently has tracked the mega-trillions offshore. This gets hairier and hairier. 

Rev9

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## cjm

> Or why was it removed?


The Google Street View photo doesn't look like a camera to me.  I don't think there was ever one there.

----------


## Thor

> The Google Street View photo doesn't look like a camera to me.  I don't think there was ever one there.


There were for sure cameras on the front as seen in these photos:

http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-...-512453094.jpg

http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-...-512453060.jpg

http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-...-512453045.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_location.jpg

And this photo looks like there was one in the back:

http://willyloman.files.wordpress.co...ing-camera.jpg

But I guess the theater could have only thought the front of the theater is where anything bad might happen and they only needed security cameras on the front of the building.

However I just went to Google maps street view (http://goo.gl/maps/0cfxT) and grabbed these images: (click the URL below each to go to full size which is much larger)


http://i.imgur.com/pKeZM.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/iHpOu.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/83zzW.jpg

The white dot sure looks like a security camera to me.

----------


## MelissaWV

So they put a single camera there to... keep an eye out on the lawn?

Really blurry and also doesn't look recent; I'm not sure I'd call this a smoking gun.

----------


## Thor

> So they put a single camera there to... keep an eye out on the lawn?
> 
> Really blurry and also doesn't look recent; I'm not sure I'd call this a smoking gun.


There are exit doors and parking spaces on the back, and 3 different angles show the same thing that is on the front. (Did you look at the larger version?)  The white stem on the bubble, although, yes, it is fuzzy as google street view only has so much resolution, but the different angles show there was an object there that matched the cameras on the front.  And yes, it does not look recent, which is the point.

----------


## Ronulus

I don't think that's a security camera in the photo. If you were to mount cameras they would be on the side of the wall or on the light pole. If on the roof it would have to be on a tower of it's own that would extend much higher than that in the photo so that it could be angled down.

----------


## Thor

> I don't think that's a security camera in the photo. If you were to mount cameras they would be on the side of the wall or on the light pole. If on the roof it would have to be on a tower of it's own that would extend much higher than that in the photo so that it could be angled down.


If you look at the front of the theater photos in my post above (the first 4 photo links), where it is a lot clearer and better resolution shows that those are the security cameras on the front of the building; the google street views on the back show it is in the exact same configuration.  Just over the top edge of the roof wall and in from the side of the building.

To me, it is for sure a camera as it matches the same style as the front building cameras.  A camera that is no longer there based upon the recent drive by photos on that blog.



http://i.imgur.com/atvXu.jpg


So, if that thing is not a camera, ok that is fine....  (I think it is a camera)  --- the recent photos on the blog from the person that drove by today or yesterday do not show the same item that Google Street View from before the event does show.  Camera or not, where is whatever that thing is in Google Street View?

I think a camera that was removed prior to, or just after, this event.  And if so, why would they do that?

----------


## Revolution9

....Robert Milton Holmes Jr, James Eagan Holmes father, is an eminent statistician who got his Ph.D. from UC Berkeley after being mentored there by equally eminent Romanian born statistician Dr. Peter John Bickel. He is a long time member of the American Statistics Association (ASA). The elder Holmes writings include:

Contributions to the theory of parametric estimation in randomly censored data by Robert M Holmes (Book) — this was his 1981 Doctoral Dissertation at Cal Berkeley

QR code for A Statistical Analysis of the First Ten Years of Graduates of the Graduate Program in Hospital Administration, State University of Iowa, 1952-1961

Accession Number : ADA213235 Forecasting PCS (Permanent Change of Station ORT Moves Using Tree Classifications Descriptive Note : Technical note, Oct 1987-May 1988 Corporate Author : NAVY PERSONNEL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CENTER SAN DIEGO CA Personal Author(s) : Holmes, Robert M. ; Pabiniak, Chester Report Date : AUG 1989

Accession Number : ADA200236 An Empirical Bayes Approach to Forecasting Marine Corps Enlisted Personnel Loss Rates Descriptive Note : Interim rept. Nov 1987-May 1988 Corporate Author : NAVY PERSONNEL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CENTER SAN DIEGO CA Personal Author(s) : Boyle, James P. ; Holmes, Jr, Robert M. Report Date : SEP 1988



Rev9

----------


## idirtify

Sorry if this is a stupid question (and I haven't read through this thread) but did anyone in the theater see the shooter's face?

----------


## JK/SEA

> Ahh yes. Here it is. Remember the Army Soldier in Afghanistan who left his base in the middle of the night and killed villagers in 2 villages several miles apart? The next day, he could not recall anything. Several surviving witnesses were adamant that several laughing and drunken soldiers carried out the attacks, but the US pinned it all on this one guy. 
> 
> Anyhow, Colorado reminds me of the Afghan incident. Seems there's a playbook for this type of patsy coverup. 
> 
> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ghlight=Afghan


So this soldier incident was a test?....looks like it worked....so far.

----------


## Roxi

> Sorry if this is a stupid question (and I haven't read through this thread) but did anyone in the theater see the shooter's face?


Nope, he was wearing tactical gear, and unless I missed something, that only came off once he was apprehended.

----------


## Thor

> Sorry if this is a stupid question (and I haven't read through this thread) but did anyone in the theater see the shooter's face?





> Nope, he was wearing tactical gear, and unless I missed something, that only came off once he was apprehended.


So that could create "reasonable doubt" as to if he was actually the trigger-man if nobody saw his face or his flame red hair (and even that hair could be duplicated if he was a planned patsy.)  Reports are that the gunman was 5'8" to 6'0 based upon who you hear in the various interviews (I heard one person say 5'8"-5'9" and someone else say 6'0".)  I think James Holmes is 6'3".  For most people, 6'3" is taller then them, so they know when someone else is a tall person.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1688996.html



> The FBI has revealed Holmes is a white male who is 6 feet, 3 inches tall and 24 years old, with a birth date of Dec. 13, 1987. Authorities have found no significant criminal record and no terrorist affiliations. Investigators suspect he acted alone.

----------


## cjm

Stick figure "confession" didn't arrive on 12 July after all:

http://www.ucdenver.edu/about/newsro...al-Campus.aspx




> Update on suspicious packages discovered at Anschutz Medical Campus
> Package immediately investigated and turned over to authorities within hours of delivery.
> 7/25/2012
> 
> AURORA, Colo. (July 25, 2012)   Officials at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus can confirm that the suspicious package discovered at the Facilities Services building on Monday, July 23, 2012, was delivered to the campus by the United States Postal Service that same day, immediately investigated and turned over to authorities within hours of delivery. This package prompted the buildings evacuation at 12:26 p.m., and employees were allowed to return by 3:06 p.m.
> 
> *The anonymous Fox News source that the package was received on July 12 and sat in the mailroom is inaccurate.
> *
> We remain unable to discuss anything further on this package in accordance with the order of Judge Sylvester on July 23, 2012.
> ...

----------


## cajuncocoa

FWIW...




> The Joker is playing the amnesia card.
> 
> Accused mass murderer James Holmes told jailhouse workers that he remains stumped about what landed him in a Colorado lockup, a jail staffer told the Daily News.
> 
> “He claims he doesn’t know why he’s in jail,” the worker said Thursday. “He asked, ‘Why am I here?’”




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz21lJGNKjk

----------


## Bruno

> Stick figure "confession" didn't arrive on 12 July after all:
> 
> http://www.ucdenver.edu/about/newsro...al-Campus.aspx


So says one undisclosed source who contradicts another undisclosed source.  Of course, they will go with whatever is most convenient and the other version soon forgotten.  

e.g. 
"He said he was The Joker."  
"We now believe he did not say he was The Joker."

----------


## John F Kennedy III

Apparently there was a notebook that Holmes sent to a professor a week before the shooting that details the shooting.

Go to 7:45

----------


## Bruno

> Apparently there was a notebook that Holmes sent to a professor a week before the shooting that details the shooting.
> 
> Go to 7:45


Covered here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...20#post4553620


Thr story has now changed. They now say it arrived just hours before. They coincidentally were called for another package suspected to be from the shooter, oops, false alarm, and conveniently found this one that was just delivered.

----------


## MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2

> Covered here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...20#post4553620
> 
> 
> Thr story has now changed. They now say it arrived just hours before. They coincidentally were called for another package suspected to be from the shooter, oops, false alarm, and conveniently found this one that was just delivered.



Just more $#@! that's hard to believe.

----------


## Thor

OK, so obviously there are lots of changing stories about notebook delivery dates and arrest location with items on him; and questions about 1 or 2 people, gas mask location, fathers job and testifying, etc.  I have created a document that we all can use and update with questions and inconsistencies in reporting to try and track everything in a centralized way.  I will admit it is just a start, but anyone and everyone can update the document with new stories, questions, etc.

It does not require a log in or sign up and it saves versions and an active "timeline" of changes, so nothing should be "lost" even if deleted.

I think it would be a good idea to try and track all these issues and questions in a central location.  The forum is great, but you have to go through 87 pages here and 15 pages in another thread to see it all.  1 location would be better for real tracking of the issues, IMHO.

It is open to all, but it is not for opinions or speculation.  It is not for people who just think this is an open and shut case.  Facts, inconsistencies, questions, back stories, etc are all welcome to further understand what is going on.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in contributing, asking more questions, adding links to sources of inconsistencies or new questions, etc, please jump it.

Here it is:
http://sync.in/pF8TTt1dxQ

I admit it needs work, but it is a start.  Feel free to share in other threads here on RPF and in other forums.  It is open to everyone with something to add to the questions on this case.  It is a way to either answer how he did it, or how he was set up.

----------


## qh4dotcom

People are still making a big deal about this? Yes it's sad and unfortunate 12 people had to die....but why don't you all make a bigger deal about all the innocent civilians who are dying in the Middle East?

Also, if you must watch a bunch of Hollywood enemies of liberty in front of a camera pretending to be someone that they are not, here's the safest thing you can do....you wait 4 months until their fantasies are available for $1 at your local supermarket kiosk....then you watch the Hollywood statists from the safety of you own home....and after you are done watching their fantasies, come back to reality and realize they are making commercials for Obama and sending him millions for his re-election campaign.

----------


## Thor

> People are still making a big deal about this? Yes it's sad and unfortunate 12 people had to die....but why don't you all make a bigger deal about all the innocent civilians who are dying in the Middle East?


Oh, you're right.  He did it, case closed, move along.

----------


## JK/SEA

> People are still making a big deal about this? Yes it's sad and unfortunate 12 people had to die....but why don't you all make a bigger deal about all the innocent civilians who are dying in the Middle East?
> .


quick reminder. UN treaty to ban small arms comes up for vote soon. Some of us believe there is a correlation with the upcoming treaty, and this possible false flag in Colorado. If you don't agree, fine, but please don't marginilize efforts to get the truth. Personnally, i hope its as simple as just some smart/dumb/schizo rich kid who hates his parents and smoked too much crack....

----------


## AuH20

> quick reminder. UN treaty to ban small arms comes up for vote soon. Some of us believe there is a correlation with the upcoming treaty, and this possible false flag in Colorado. If you don't agree, fine, but please don't margilinize efforts to get the truth. Personnally, i hope its just some smart/dumb/schizo rich kid who hates his parents and smoked too much crack....


The treaty is up for ratification tomorrow on a Friday coincidentally. They always schedule this garbage at the end of the workweek.

----------


## Revolution9

Here is a trip diary of a scopolamine experience. Note the time till normal.. 


Subject orally ingested 7mg of racemically-pure scopolamine HBr in aqueous vehicle. No other psychoactive substances were combined with the scopolamine. The quantity of scopolamine is decided upon because it is 1/50 of a lethal murine dose; subject figures that this is a sufficient safety factor. 

+30 minutes: Onset of peripheral anti-cholinergic symptoms, e.g. dry mouth, blurred vision, dilated pupils, hyperpyrexia, red hands and eet and flushed face. Some noticeable ataxia and poor sentence construction. 

+1 hour: Definite delirium setting in. Substantial decrease of muscle tone, resulting in clumsy walking. Much banging into walls and stumbling over nothing whatsoever. Heartrate is very fast. 

+2 hours: Muscles almost completely relaxed, so that walking is now impossible (can barely crawl, however). Foreheard feels feverish. Hearing is impaired. Pupils are monstrously dilated. Colors are very rich and bright, as with Cannabis intoxication. Visual perceptual resolution is poor; text appears blurry no matter how hard subject squints or concentrates. Depth perception is severely impaired, making it impossible to appropriately reach for even nearby objects without over- or under-reaching. 

+3 hours: The walls are breathing, objects are swirling about and taking on living forms, making for a generally nightmarish scenario. Subject has NO INSIGHT WHATSOEVER; these are REAL HALLUCINATIONS, unlike the fanciful visions and distortions that one obtains on indoleamine psychelic drugs. Terrifying. 

+4 hours and onwards: Muscles are so weak that even lifting a finger seems to take superhuman strength. Subject feels an oppressive force pinning him down on the bed, paralyzing him. Visual field is completely obscured by various living forms and blurry splotches. Throat is parched; tongue feels sandy. Subject does not know where he is; does not know whether he is even awake or dreaming, does not konw who he is; does not know why he feels so $#@!ty; etc. Subject pledges his soul to the demon who is sittig on him in exchange for a refreshing drink of water. The demon takes his soul, doesn't provide the agreed-upon water. Subject resigns himself to eternal damnation. 

+16 hours: Subject finds himself at work, utterly perplexed. He realizes that he is in the middle of a conversation with someone, asks for that person to repeat what was just said. Somehow manages to handle everything at work without stirring too much suspicion. Vaguely recalls waking up in the morning midway down the basement stairs. Luckily, no injuries other than bruises. Concludes that he must fallen down the stairs while sleepwalking. Later that day, subject is shocked to discover that he had completed a sizeable amount of rather demanding paperwork earlier in the workday, with no recollection of even being delegated this task. Because of blurry vision, reading is somewhat difficult. 

+20 hours: Subject comes home, sees a bowl of cooked rice sitting in the refrigerator - does not recall ever cooking rice. Also finds a toothbrush and some floss (most of it pulled out and then wrapped around the dispenser) on his nightstand, and a remote control in the bathroom. Pupils are still $#@!ing hugely dilated. Subject has paranoid ideation about various entities lurking throughout his house, sees fleeting creatures in his peripheral vision. 

+48 hours: Subject's memory and santiy are more or less back to normal, but he is deeply shaken and full of regret for ever thinking of experimenting with an anticholinergic deliriant. 

Moral of the story: Don't do scopolamine. It is NOT a psychedelic (mind-opening) drug. Instead, it will make you a zombie. 


Rev9

----------


## Bruno

> Here is a trip diary of a scopolamine experience. Note the time till normal.. 
> 
> 
> Subject orally ingested 7mg of racemically-pure scopolamine HBr in aqueous vehicle. No other psychoactive substances were combined with the scopolamine. The quantity of scopolamine is decided upon because it is 1/50 of a lethal murine dose; subject figures that this is a sufficient safety factor. 
> 
> +30 minutes: Onset of peripheral anti-cholinergic symptoms, e.g. dry mouth, blurred vision, dilated pupils, hyperpyrexia, red hands and eet and flushed face. Some noticeable ataxia and poor sentence construction. 
> 
> +1 hour: Definite delirium setting in. Substantial decrease of muscle tone, resulting in clumsy walking. Much banging into walls and stumbling over nothing whatsoever. Heartrate is very fast. 
> 
> ...


That is exactly how he looked in the courtroom and even explains his asking why he was in jail.

----------


## JK/SEA

would taking half the dose have any watered down effects, or would it be just a shortened (same) experience you describe?

----------


## Revolution9

> would taking half the dose have any watered down effects, or would it be just a shortened (same) experience you describe?


People back in the 70's told me that they did some and it lasted two or three days. Cardboard men slipping through slots in the dimension, talking to people not there, demons lurking. Seems to be the deal. As well, if you can blow this in someones face and zombify them then the dose is minscule. I imagine at most a millgram or two may get inhaled.

Rev9

----------


## Weston White

> That is exactly how he looked in the courtroom and even explains his asking why he was in jail.



And notice that while in court he never tried to raise or move his arms or hands, to write anything down, or to scratch his face, etc.; neither did he pay any attention to his attorney standing up next to him, he could not speak upon his own behalf, etc.

He sort of reminded me of that funny scene from “About Schmidt” when Jack Nicholson was at the wedding rehearsal on muscle relaxers.

----------


## Thor

> And notice that while in court he never tried to raise or move his arms or hands, to write anything down, or to scratch his face, etc.; neither did he pay any attention to his attorney standing up next to him, he could not speak upon his own behalf, etc.
> 
> He sort of reminded me of that funny scene from “About Schmidt” when Jack Nicholson was at the wedding rehearsal on muscle relaxers.


I had a friend who had a mental breakdown and I went to visit him while he was in the "hospital" for 2 weeks and he acted in a very similar fashion to what I saw in the courtroom.  The bug eyes and sudden realization you were in reality and then drifting off and suddenly coming back... over and over.  He was loaded on Thorazine and who knows what else.  But similar in composure.  Although he could talk, even though it trailed off and made no sense.  So I don't think he was acting.

----------


## Tyler_Durden

Has anyone found a LIBOR scandal House Subcommittee testimony/FICO Scientist Robert Holmes connection yet? I've scoured the web, but no luck yet. I want to find a schedule, press release, etc showing that FICO is/was slated to testify on the LIBOR scandal. I sent a tip to Infowars to try to connect the dots.....

If we can substantiate that a representative of FICO is/was slated to testify before the Subcommittee, that would be a start. Keep in mind that Congress didn't start it's investigation until July 10 of this year. This sh*t is still fresh and ongoing. 

http://www.foxbusiness.com/governmen...-libor-scandal

----------


## Weston White

This was all I was able to find as of yet (nothing specifically mentioning a Robert Holmes):

http://randy.house.gov/uploads/7-23-...20Up%20(2).pdf
http://randy.house.gov/index.cfm?sec...tiontree=5,198
http://financialservices.house.gov/S...?IssueID=32921

----------


## Weston White

Is this yet just another of many recent coincidences?

On July 2, 2008, while visiting Colorado Springs, Colorado, President Soetoro (Barrack Obama) has given the following speech and on July 20, 2012 a mass-shooting took place in Aurora, Colorado (notice the similarity in the dates and the present agenda of Obama and his DHS, the media, the UN, et al):

“_We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded._”

* Also the distance between the two cities is 68.6mi, while there were a total of seventy (70) either injured or deceased as a result of the Aurora incident.

----------


## AuH20

Reality stranger than fiction?

http://www.infowars.com/inmate-james...vil-therapist/



> Holmes appeared to show remorse for what had happened.
> 
> The most explosive element of what Unruh claims Holmes told him could – if true – shed an entirely different light on the circumstances behind the Aurora theater shooting.
> 
> “He says that Holmes told him “he felt like he was in a video game” during the shooting, that “he wasn’t on his meds” and “nobody would help him.” He says Holmes also mentioned NLP — presumably, neuro-linguistic programming, a much-scorned and outmoded approach to psychotherapy — and claimed to have been “programmed” to kill by an evil therapist.”
> 
> “When he got out to his car, he wasn’t programmed no more,” Unruh says. “It sounded kind of crazy. He was trying to run it by me, basically.”
> 
> Unruh was also given a phone number that Holmes asked him to call which connected to a bereavement counselor who says she has no acquaintance with Holmes or Unruh.
> ...

----------


## John F Kennedy III

Hmmmmm.

----------


## AuH20

Why the iron grip on all evidence????????????????????? What are they hiding??

http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles...-t-release.htm

----------


## dannno

> The man accused of shooting dead 12 people inside a Colorado cinema was relaxed but *"out of it"* in the moments after the massacre, a court has heard .
> 
> James Holmes, who is alleged to have sprayed the audience of a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises with bullets, wounding 58 people, appeared unmoved as he *"stared into space"*, the police officer who arrested Holmes told the hearing.
> 
> *"It was like there weren't normal emotional responses"*



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...o-james-holmes

----------

